# Wizards make their play for Arenas



## BCH

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55899-2003Jul14.html

They are reportedly going to offer him a starting salary of $6.5M. I think a team like the Nuggets or Jazz will step up and top that.

This is interesting because Arenas seems to have the qualities that Jordan said he was looking for in a PG. Someone who can run the break and then play as a part of the Princeton style offense he is going to run. Another interesting way to look at this is a reunion of Hughes and Arenas.

Our guards currently look like this:

Blake, Hughes, Dixon, Stackhouse

I could see Arenas stepping in as the starting PG, with Stackhouse as the SG. The depth chart looking something like:

PG: Arenas/Blake/Dixon
SG: Stackhouse/Hughes/Dixon

I still have doubts about Arenas doing it over a longer span of 1 season, but he definitely looked good against the Wizards.

Here is the unfortunate plan B.



> In case Washington can't sign Arenas, it is still pursuing San Antonio free agent Speedy Claxton, with free agents Antonio Daniels (Portland), Travis Best (Miami), Bimbo Coles (Boston), Darrell Armstrong (Orlando) and Kenny Anderson (New Orleans) other possibilities


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## jazzy1

Now this is what I'm talking about make the play. I debated this very thing with MJG. Who knows he might see the Eastern conference as a chance to get to the finals. We have young talent so who knows. If we could just clear another mil and a half . We might really be onto something. 

I think its a bit risky paying so much for him because he might be a flash in the pan but at this point he would surely be a solid get if it did happen.

on a side note who was Hayes guarding that he had so much foul trouble. I also find it interesting that Kwame's speaking up especially about having a pass 1st pg. He's starting to become a leader. HOW IN THE HELL DOES A TEAM go on a 32-0 run. Were the Wizards dead or in the bathroom. Thats a funny stat even for a summer league game.


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## MJG

I'm glad we made an offer (finally), but I still think it has next to no chance of happening. He could either get more money elsewhere (Miami) or stay somewhere that he both likes and is familiar with (Golden State). Plan B pretty much sucks, but I think it is fine for a team that isn't going anywhere this season anyways.


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## MikeDC

I think there's a only a slight chance Arenas will accept unless Miami and Utah really lowball him, but man, he is the guy I've thought would be best for quite a while. 

I love the fact that we're at least making the pitch to him. If we could get him and Kwame is passably good I have to think we'd make the playoffs.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I'm glad we made an offer (finally), but I still think it has next to no chance of happening. He could either get more money elsewhere (Miami) or stay somewhere that he both likes and is familiar with (Golden State). Plan B pretty much sucks, but I think it is fine for a team that isn't going anywhere this season anyways.


I think we're going about the same place as Miami and Riley isn't gonna overpay for Arenas especially since he overpaid for the contracts of Eddie Jones and Brian Grant. Heat management might not take that leap with an unproven player especially since they think Wade can play the point. 

I think GSW is the only other real option for Arenas but we can outbid them. The Jazz have expressed concern over Arenas walking out of practice. Lettting those concerns be made public hurts them. 

We may actually have a real shot.


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## MJG

I've heard of two options from the Miami side: either a full-length deal at around this amount (6-years, $7 million per) as well as a shorter deal at a high amount (3-years, $9-10 million per). Either is likely better than ours, plus the location is much nicer from a player's perspective. I think Utah is dropping out and Denver is going to lowball him, which does help us. Despite that, I still think we're in third place (or lower, depending on Denver) in the race for him. I don't think it's impossible, but it is a longshot in my view.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I've heard of two options from the Miami side: either a full-length deal at around this amount (6-years, $7 million per) as well as a shorter deal at a high amount (3-years, $9-10 million per). Either is likely better than ours, plus the location is much nicer from a player's perspective. I think Utah is dropping out and Denver is going to lowball him, which does help us. Despite that, I still think we're in third place (or lower, depending on Denver) in the race for him. I don't think it's impossible, but it is a longshot in my view.


I have serious doubts that the Heats offer is that high. They have Wade whom the think can run the point. And Riley seems to really like Odom. It doesn't seem like Riley's style to spend that much on a player like Arenas. 

I think we're less likely than more likely to get him but think his interest in going down around the league. 

I think Denver and Utah may both be in the Miller sweepstakes with Miller headed to the Nuggets. If thats true than it comes down to us and maybe the heat and GSW. 

We're clearly in the hunt and have a shot. He's not a big name and would fit our plans nicely. If that cap goes up and we have more dough we could really be in there.


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## NorthEast Wiz

I am quite pleased that we are in the game. I thought we would not try to even make a play. This is good news.


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## MikeDC

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0715/1580996.html

The NBA salary cap will jump from $40.5 million to $43.8 million for the 2003-2004 season, ESPN's David Aldridge reports, a financial bonanza for signed veteran players and free agents.

<HR>

This is great news for us. I'm not sure what our $6.5M figure was based on, but it means we potentially can offer another $3M to Arenas (and/or other players).

In other words, we could financially at least probably match any offer he'd get. I'm not sure we'd want to match ANY offer, but it's a good thing nonetheless.


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## Shanghai Kid

I think our 6.5 was based on the cap being at 42 million. So I think now we can offer Arenas 7.5.


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## jazzy1

Great news ,great news. Now I don't think Arenas is actually worth that much but the Wizards need to make the offer. This is the type of signing that the Wizards are desperate for. Signing him gives the team more credibility. 

The Wizards need to make this deal happen. 

If they do. 

Arenas
Stackhouse
Hayes
Kwame
Haywood

I think we can do some things with that line-up.


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## BCH

Actually using NCBullsFan's excellent analysis, the Wizards are commited to $35.2M next year. That means they will have about $8.6M in capspace.

I feel that Arenas is worth no more than about $8M to start.


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## MJG

It's tough to come up with a good contract for Arenas. At this point, he certainly isn't worth that much money. However, this isn't a one year deal we'd be signing him to. He is a very young player who is expected to continue to improve, and he may be considered a great player for that price in the next 1-3 years.


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## alchemist

I thought Bimbo Coles retired a decade ago!

But, I'm really thrilled about Arenas, because I would think he'd fit right in. He's only 22, and is a very good young point. I'm surprised he hasn't been signed yet, maybe he's considering staying with GS (which is what I think is best for him, they're a tem on the rise).


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## NorthEast Wiz

Here is the latest article. Things seem to be getting better rather than worse. This would be a good signing for us.

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20030716-123037-6448r.htm


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## MJG

I do not want to get my hopes up, but it's tough to keep them down. He'd be a great pickup for us and may be considered a steal at what we'd probably pay him in a few years -- I'll keep praying


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## NorthEast Wiz

Being a Wiz fan can be a religious experience.


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## NorthEast Wiz

If G.S. think that they will not be able to sign Gilbert, would they do a sign and trade or would they like to increase their cap space?

They already have 14 million coming off of the cap next year.


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## BCH

> Originally posted by <b>NorthEast Wiz</b>!
> If G.S. think that they will not be able to sign Gilbert, would they do a sign and trade or would they like to increase their cap space?
> 
> They already have 14 million coming off of the cap next year.


GS can only sign and trade for what they can pay him. The MLE.


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## MikeDC

That article didn't really touch on it, but my guess is now that the Heat have blown their load on a big offer to Elton Brand, we are probably in even better shape.

The wild card seems to be the Jazz, with whom Arenas seems to hold mutually tepid interest in. I'm not sure they want him or he wants them, but they've got a lot of money.

Denver pretty clearly decided they don't think he's worth it and went after Miller. I suppose if the Clips matched Miller's offer sheet to Denver though, they might renew their interest in Arenas.

As things stand now though, we are looking good. I'm a bit leary of giving all that money to Arenas, but this is one of those situations where they almost need to do whatever it takes. If Arenas reaches a Steve Francis like level, it'll look like a good deal no matter what. If he flops like Andre Miller did with the Clips last year, then it's pretty much a bad deal made worse by overpaying.

I tend to think, however, unless he turns completely into a headcase, he's going to be very good. He was consistently good all of last year and even when he finally was inserted into the lineup at the end of the year before that. I don't think there's that much chance of him dropping the level of his play.

So that being said, how good are we if he signs?

PG- Arenas, Blake, (Dixon), (Hughes)
SG- Stackhouse, Hughes, Dixon, (Hayes), (Simmons)
SF- Jeffries, Hayes, Simmons
PF- Kwame, L8, (Jeffries), (Thomas)
C- Haywood, White, Thomas

Still looks like a pretty youthful, flawed roster to me. We still need a backup PG in a major way if Hughes isn't willing (after getting a contract based on his ability to play there) to play there anymore. If we could trade him for someone that could help at the point, it'd be a good thing I think.


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## NorthEast Wiz

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> 
> 
> GS can only sign and trade for what they can pay him. The MLE.


You are right, so I seems to be Gilbert's issue to take a contract now or wait to be a FA next year.


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## NorthEast Wiz

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> That article didn't really touch on it, but my guess is now that the Heat have blown their load on a big offer to Elton Brand, we are probably in even better shape.
> 
> The wild card seems to be the Jazz, with whom Arenas seems to hold mutually tepid interest in. I'm not sure they want him or he wants them, but they've got a lot of money.
> 
> Denver pretty clearly decided they don't think he's worth it and went after Miller. I suppose if the Clips matched Miller's offer sheet to Denver though, they might renew their interest in Arenas.
> 
> As things stand now though, we are looking good. I'm a bit leary of giving all that money to Arenas, but this is one of those situations where they almost need to do whatever it takes. If Arenas reaches a Steve Francis like level, it'll look like a good deal no matter what. If he flops like Andre Miller did with the Clips last year, then it's pretty much a bad deal made worse by overpaying.
> 
> I tend to think, however, unless he turns completely into a headcase, he's going to be very good. He was consistently good all of last year and even when he finally was inserted into the lineup at the end of the year before that. I don't think there's that much chance of him dropping the level of his play.
> 
> So that being said, how good are we if he signs?
> 
> PG- Arenas, Blake, (Dixon), (Hughes)
> SG- Stackhouse, Hughes, Dixon, (Hayes), (Simmons)
> SF- Jeffries, Hayes, Simmons
> PF- Kwame, L8, (Jeffries), (Thomas)
> C- Haywood, White, Thomas
> 
> Still looks like a pretty youthful, flawed roster to me. We still need a backup PG in a major way if Hughes isn't willing (after getting a contract based on his ability to play there) to play there anymore. If we could trade him for someone that could help at the point, it'd be a good thing I think.


I think we would have a pretty good young squad, very solid at the the 1-3 spots (I have confidence with our Arenas and Stack that any of the 3's you mentioned above would be good). The production we get out of the big men will determine how good we are. Not to put pressure on him but if Kwame could make this year his step-up year then we will be fun to watch.


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## jazzy1

Arenas would be making a huge mistake if he doesn't take our offer. I got a feeling with this kid he could be a waste of money. Seems like teams are backing off bigtime. I really think it comes down to us and the GSW. No way he waits till next year to get paid. That would be stupid on his part. Not really sure if he's ready to come across the country either. 

Arenas I think we all conclude isn't worth 8 mill. In the Wizards case I think its clear that this is one of those instances that they have no choice but to overpay.

IS GSW locked into only paying him the MLE or can they clear cap space and pay more. 


We may regret the day the Wizards spent 8 mill for Arenas. But taking chances is all the Wiz are left with.


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## grizzoistight

Yall are telling me that Arenas is better than lue ?? 
:laugh: :laugh: JK
If yall got arenas then u would have 3 of my favorite players ( along with brown and hayes I live in ga) all u would need was grizzard and kobe..


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## MJG

I think giving him a contract that averages out at $8 million per year (6 years, $48 million or so) is a sink or swim deal. If his rumored attitude problems combine with him not continuing to improve, in a few years he'll be considered just another overpaid guy. However, if he keeps his attitude in check and does improve (even if it's just slightly), I think we'll have a heck of a player on our hands for a very reasonable price. A lot of people don't realize how good some of his numbers were last year: 18/5/6/1.5 spg/6 FTA per game. Those are very, very good numbers for a second year player -- especially since he got limited time for a lot of his rookie year. He does have his flaws (3.5 TO, among league leaders in technicals), but you'll be hard pressed to find such a young guy who played as well as he did last year.


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## jazzy1

good points. MJG


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## Shanghai Kid

I don't think Gilbert has an attitude problem or anything. From what I've gathered by talking to Golden State fans, the guy plays with a chip on his shoulder. He plays like he knows he's that good. He has that quality that Jordan and Kobe have, of wanting to be the best. Him getting picked in the 2nd round motivates him to play better and prove himself everytime he steps on the court. 

As far as his stats go, he'd easily become the 2nd best point guard in the East. His numbers are similar to Jason Kidds in every category except assists. Him and Stackhouse would be the best backcourt in the East. And it might make us a playoff contender.


For that reason, I say we take a risk and overpay him.


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## BCH

The latest from the Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2634-2003Jul16.html



> BOSTON, July 16 -- Golden State Warriors free agent point guard Gilbert Arenas, the principle player the Washington Wizards have targeted to acquire this offseason, met with President of Basketball Operations Ernie Grunfeld and Coach Eddie Jordan tonight in Washington and could come to terms on a multiyear contract as soon as Thursday, a source close to the negotiations said.


If the Wizards were to get Gilbert to sign tomorrow for a starting deal of $8M (approx. 6 years/$60M) that would have to be considered a risk, but a promising start for the post MJ era. I have nightmare flashes of the Juwan Howard situation because it is very similar, but I also realize that this is about half of what Juwan's deal was for.


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## MJG

Excellent news for us  I am not incredibly worried about this being a bad contract, because it isn't anything outrageous. We aren't maxing him out or anything -- and in a prediction that assumes this happens, I think by this time next year we will be very, very happy with this signing.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> The latest from the Post:
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2634-2003Jul16.html
> 
> 
> 
> If the Wizards were to get Gilbert to sign tomorrow for a starting deal of $8M (approx. 6 years/$60M) that would have to be considered a risk, but a promising start for the post MJ era. I have nightmare flashes of the Juwan Howard situation because it is very similar, but I also realize that this is about half of what Juwan's deal was for.



I'm in agreement with you here BCH. We could be overpaying for this guy big time. I like him as a player but is this really the ideal thing to do and tie him up for that much money. 

Things I know about Arenas. A pg with size and the ability to score, solid rebounder and apparently a tough competitor. Athletically he's on par with the best pg's in the league. He has hops and speed. He's a streaky outside shooter. He's an okay passer. seems to be really driven.* BUT was that just to get this payday* is the big question. 

Negatives I think I know. Maybe a questionable leader. Walked out of practice. Bought an Escalade before he had a guaranteed contract. Tricked it out spending almost 90K. I remember at the time people thought he was crazy for doing that. But he's shown complete confidence in his self. May not be a true pg as far as pass 1st is concerned. 

He reminds me of an athletic faster Rod Strickland with his ability to penetrate. Either we're seeing just the begining to see his greatness or we've seen the best of it already. 

I tend to think where we are right NOW we have B]NO CHOICE.[/B] . This franchise is struggling for credibility. Making this move restores that to some degree.


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## jazzy1

Wouldn't it be a rotten twist of fate if the money paid in this contract screwed us when it comes time for Kwame's contract. Kwame becomes a star we have trouble paying. We have an awful lot of young players.


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## MJG

We do have quite a few young players, and I doubt we'll be able to keep them all. However, odds are that not all of them will turn out to be worth that much anyways -- outside of Kwame/JJ/Hayes, who else would we need to pay? Hayes is a ways off and we shouldn't worry about it, and JJ isn't exactly around the corner either. It's tough to turn down a very good player now because of worries about not being able to sign a possible good player in a few years.

I think that at worst, Arenas will turn into a minor overpayment. Unless he majorly regresses under a big contract, I don't consider $8 million to be a bad starting salary for him. I've said it once or twice before, but this would be a long-term deal, not a one year contract. While he may be overpaid for what he'll give us for the next year or two, if he continues to improve he may be considered a steal four or five years down the road. It's tough to come up with a good salary for a young player with only two years of experience -- like I mentioned before, it's usually sink or swim.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> We do have quite a few young players, and I doubt we'll be able to keep them all. However, odds are that not all of them will turn out to be worth that much anyways -- outside of Kwame/JJ/Hayes, who else would we need to pay? Hayes is a ways off and we shouldn't worry about it, and JJ isn't exactly around the corner either. It's tough to turn down a very good player now because of worries about not being able to sign a possible good player in a few years.
> 
> I think that at worst, Arenas will turn into a minor overpayment. Unless he majorly regresses under a big contract, I don't consider $8 million to be a bad starting salary for him. I've said it once or twice before, but this would be a long-term deal, not a one year contract. While he may be overpaid for what he'll give us for the next year or two, if he continues to improve he may be considered a steal four or five years down the road. It's tough to come up with a good salary for a young player with only two years of experience -- like I mentioned before, it's usually sink or swim.



Remember we have to set all speculation on Wizards LUCK TIME(meaning expect the worse and if it doesn't happen never speak on it).  

Best case scenario he becomes the second coming of GP. He's a 20+ppg scorer with 8-9 asts per game. This could happen, we're gonna be playing in a style that takes advantage of his talents. 

ONLY problem that concerns me with this line-up is turnovers. 

Arenas
Stack
Hayes
Kwame
Haywood

This line-up could be turnover prone. I mean lead the league in turnovers prone. Stackhouse is always a turnover machine, add Arenas a Machine in training with Kwame a machine jr and it could be ugly. Blake may actually be a good change of pace from all the turnovers being a natural pg. Hughes is another turnover machine and Jahidi oh man. 

EJ has to seriously consider if these players can keep from losing the ball playing the up tempo cutting style. Jkidd in Jersey was excellent because of his ball handling Arenas doesn't have his sort of savy. BUT this team will be fun to watch.


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## MJG

Looks like Arenas is taking a second look at us.

"Arenas to have second meeting with Wizards
By John N. Mitchell
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The Washington Wizards will get another chance to woo an "already impressed" Gilbert Arenas today when the free agent the team covets most has his second meeting with team officials. 
According to sources, Arenas will tour the team's facility and perhaps meet with owner Abe Pollin. 
Arenas and his father, Gilbert, flew from Los Angeles yesterday "very excited" about meeting with the Wizards' brass for the second time in three days, a source with knowledge of the situation said."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20030716-115432-5332r.htm


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## MikeDC

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> I tend to think where we are right NOW we have *NO CHOICE.* . This franchise is struggling for credibility. Making this move restores that to some degree.


To go off topic back to to Kwame thread for a minute (where you accused me of being in support of trading Wallace and Webber, Howard's contract etc.  ), I just want to make the point that most all of those (extraordinarily bad) deals were also made because those in power thought "right NOW we have *NO CHOICE*.

Don't get me wrong, I've been in favor of getting Arenas for a long time, and I'm still generally in support of it despite the obvious risks.

But the "we have to do it" frame of mind is not condusive to good decision-making. We have to have a PG, let's trade Rasheed for Rod Strickland. We have to have have a center... let's trade Ben Wallace. We have to get rid of that punk Webber. We have to show we're not cheap and keep Juwan... In the grand scheme of things, would we be better off by just getting our asses handed to us and getting a high draft pick next year?

I dunno, I'm just asking the question.

Personally, I think Arenas can, with experience, be the PG on a championship team. I don't see anyone out there that has a brighter future than him when it comes to what he can do on the court. The head issues give pause, but given that I think his basketball talents are a level above everyone elses, I think it's worth the risk.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> To go off topic back to to Kwame thread for a minute (where you accused me of being in support of trading Wallace and Webber, Howard's contract etc.  ), I just want to make the point that most all of those (extraordinarily bad) deals were also made because those in power thought "right NOW we have *NO CHOICE*.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I've been in favor of getting Arenas for a long time, and I'm still generally in support of it despite the obvious risks.
> 
> But the "we have to do it" frame of mind is not condusive to good decision-making. We have to have a PG, let's trade Rasheed for Rod Strickland. We have to have have a center... let's trade Ben Wallace. We have to get rid of that punk Webber. We have to show we're not cheap and keep Juwan... In the grand scheme of things, would we be better off by just getting our asses handed to us and getting a high draft pick next year?
> 
> I dunno, I'm just asking the question.
> 
> Personally, I think Arenas can, with experience, be the PG on a championship team. I don't see anyone out there that has a brighter future than him when it comes to what he can do on the court. The head issues give pause, but given that I think his basketball talents are a level above everyone elses, I think it's worth the risk.


I agree. We have no choice deals is not sound basketball decision making . BUT what else are the Wizards gonna do. If they end up with Kenny Anderson , Bimbo Coles, Armstrong, The Wizards will be a joke and viewed as a joke.

Arenas gives them credibility.


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## NorthEast Wiz

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> To go off topic back to to Kwame thread for a minute (where you accused me of being in support of trading Wallace and Webber, Howard's contract etc.  ), I just want to make the point that most all of those (extraordinarily bad) deals were also made because those in power thought "right NOW we have *NO CHOICE*.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I've been in favor of getting Arenas for a long time, and I'm still generally in support of it despite the obvious risks.
> 
> But the "we have to do it" frame of mind is not condusive to good decision-making. We have to have a PG, let's trade Rasheed for Rod Strickland. We have to have have a center... let's trade Ben Wallace. We have to get rid of that punk Webber. We have to show we're not cheap and keep Juwan... In the grand scheme of things, would we be better off by just getting our asses handed to us and getting a high draft pick next year?
> 
> I dunno, I'm just asking the question.
> 
> Personally, I think Arenas can, with experience, be the PG on a championship team. I don't see anyone out there that has a brighter future than him when it comes to what he can do on the court. The head issues give pause, but given that I think his basketball talents are a level above everyone elses, I think it's worth the risk.


It's a good point. When the Spurs drafted Tony Parker they could have decided that they 'had' to have a point guard, traded for one and by this time would have never discovered what they had in T.P.


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## jazzy1

Arenas has a gun charge pending

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2003/07/17/SP274281.DTL

This kid is a good player but seems to have little things going on all the time. 

I'd still sign him but Abe frowns on guys that get in trouble with the law. Or at least that was the front he put out there as a reason he traded Webber. Got the very old solid senior citizen Mitch Richmond. 

Drafting Parker was good scouting of which the Wizards have only 2 people working the department. 

After all the Spurs did bring in a vet per say with Claxton, and Terry Porter before that.


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## NorthEast Wiz

We should Sh** or get off of the pot. Latest article below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8470-2003Jul17.html


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## BCH

I would think that was expected. It would be nice to get the guy, but I am not pressed to make sure we do it at all costs. If he wants to come, we will pay, if he doesn't want to, then I am fine with that. If our flirtation with him causes us to lose a chance to sign Claxton to a reasonable deal, then I will be disappointed. However, although we have some decent cap room, I do not feel it is imperative we do anything with it other than helping us get a PG for this upcoming season, and outside of Arenas and Claxton it doesn't really matter.


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## jazzy1

Arenas is going back to GSW. And he's gonna be stuck with the MLE. He's a fool. I get the feeling he is using the Wizards. He's interested because of the money but he's young and he hasn't been away from the West coast that often. He's making a huge mistake if he takes the 1 year deal thinking he's gonna sign a bigger one with GSW. Funny how stuff works out. I always thought the unconscious rule was have a big year when contract time comes and cash in. Not have the big year and then wait 1 more year. 

Alot changes in a years time. If he stumbles some this year or gets injured he'll have left alot of money on the table. 

If we miss out on a solid pg fooling around with him it would be typical method of operations down on fun street. 

He came along way to window shop. 

This is what it means to be a Wizards fan.


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## MikeDC

I don't care about waiting because I don't think there's much separation between any of the remaining FA points.

So we don't get Claxton... big whoop. One of those other guys (Anderson, Best, Armstrong, etc) would be just as adequate for a year and I don't think Speedy is the long-term solution.


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## MJG

Man, people seem to swing wildly one way or another here. He comes for a second visit, and we all seem to assume that he is here. Now that he left without signing a deal, we all act like our chance is gone. Make up your mind  I still believe that we have the best shot at him, considering his basic options. Denver seems to have backed off because of the money he wants, and it doesn't seem like Utah has too much interest either (nor have I heard that he has much interest in them). Miami is spending their money on either Brand or Odom, which drops them out most likely. That basically leaves his choices at us, Golden State, and (for some reason) the Clippers. I personally don't get the Clips talk -- other than the new coach wanting him, why would a team that has probably never offered an outside player any contract above the minimum make a good offer to Arenas? He also plays the same spot as their up and comer Jaric, so I don't see anything actually happening there. So in my view, this is simply a choice between us and the Warriors.

I think that it's next to impossible for such a young player to turn away the kind of money we'd be giving him. He has probably made a million dolllars total in his two years in the league, and that is the equivalent to the poorhouse in the NBA. If he stays with the Warriors, it would either be a one-year deal to cash in after next season, or a full length deal at the MLE that I guess would have an opt-out clause as soon as possible. I don't think that second option has any merit, as he would seemingly take a much more expensive (6 years at 50-60 million versus 30-35 milion) option from us if he wanted a full length deal. I also believe that there is just too great a chance of him screwing up something next year for him to consider a one year deal worth doing. An injury, lack of improvement, more off-court problems, and so on could all result in him earning less next year. Considering that he liked what he saw here in Washington, I believe the only intelligent choice on his side is to come here. I'm not saying that he definitely will, but I won't worry much about him not signing a deal yesterday.


----------



## NorthEast Wiz

Here is what the Times has to say. 

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20030718-121055-7408r.htm

I for one want Arenas and would be disappointed if we missed out now that we are 'in the game'. He was the second best point out there, I have always liked his game and think he would be solid at the position for years to come. Besides, as we are seeing now it is difficult to get players to change teams in this age of Free Agency. 

I want to do what we can to close the deal.

We won't be in the Free Agency game next year but do have Jahadi, L8 and Boogie coming off of the books the year after.


----------



## ATLien

as long as he knows when and where to give the ball to Jarvis and Kwame. Those 2 have very limited creating abilities, so they need the ball where they can shoot.


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## MJG

If we can snag him for $7 million or less to start, I'll be very happy -- and like myself and the article said, his options are fading fast. Realistically it looks like a choice between the Warriors and us, and it's rare to see someone who is both young and poor (by NBA standards) to turn away the big money.


----------



## jokeaward

I bet he leaves money on the table if he takes the MLE. One lucrative Wizards year, then shop again? The Wizards have cap space, not GSW. It's where the money is, or at least one place.


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## MJG

Latest article

It doesn't have much new information, though it says we have the largest offer of any team at approx. 6-years $60 million.


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## BCH

That is going to be as good as it gets for him right now. I am not pressed either way, though I think he is a fine player and I would love to have him. If he came here I would hope he continues to improve but that doesn't mean that I feel he will, thus breaking the bank to sign him.

We have made a fair offer. If he turns it down, it was his privelege to do so. I am sure GS fans will view it different.

My guess is that he stays in GS. There are too many reports about what is important to him, and money is the only thing the Wizards are offering.


----------



## twinz2gether

Arenas i don't think is going to go back to Golden State unless they clear cap room for him. I think the wizards have a good chance to sign him, but if he wants to stay in the west he might except a smaller contract from a team like utah. But it might be a pretty big mistake to pass up a 6 year 60 million dollar contract (the most anyone will pay him).

But if he's going to move, i don't see why he wants to stay in the west, if your going to move why not try a new place like the east coast (very nice place).


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## MJG

My gut feeling from the start was between the Nuggets and Warriors, and when I heard the Nuggets were pulling out I immediately figured he'd go back to GS. My gut feeling is still that he goes back to the Warriors. However, it's not as if I'd be shocked if he comes here -- I actually think that's what logically should happen.


----------



## twinz2gether

Do you guys completely ignore that he was already impressed with the wizards? I don't hear about him meeting with any other team than us. Well at least not twice. I see Arenas coming here.


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## NorthEast Wiz

7/20/2003 article from the Post has more of the same news. Looks like Monday is decision day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16953-2003Jul19.html


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## NorthEast Wiz

> Originally posted by <b>NorthEast Wiz</b>!
> 7/20/2003 article from the Post has more of the same news. Looks like Monday is decision day.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16953-2003Jul19.html


The article has been updated and our comptetion is getting stifffer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16953-2003Jul19.html


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## MikeDC

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baske...235.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-clippe

In bold strokes until now unheard of for the Clippers, the team Saturday formally matched Miami's $82-million offer to Elton Brand and made a $60-million offer of their own to Golden State's Gilbert Arenas, the last big prize on the free-agent market.

<HR>

Well, this seems to be about the same offer we made, and it's for a West Coast team. 

What's up with the Clips going nuts and offering out big cash to people? If they Bring back Brand, Maggette, and Odom and then swap Miller for Arenas they could be decent if they stay healthy.


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## BCH

If I were Arenas I know my choice would be Clips over the Wiz.


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## NorthEast Wiz

Latest from the Post. Our chances have dimmed some. Please no J. Barry as the point. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20512-2003Jul20.html


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## jazzy1

I'll tell you this much if Claxton doesn't come real cheap I'd be tempted to go with Hughes and Blake as the pg's. I actually like the way Hughes played last season as the pg. 

He was blamed for alot of stuff that wasn't his fault. 

By mid season or so who knows Blake might be ready to be the full time pg. Kenny Anderson, Bimbo Coles, and Travis Best would be to painful for me to watch. 

As for Arenas I think its over for us. I don't know why he hasn't signed the deal already. I think he's holding out the hope that the Warriors will sweeten the offer. I like the fact that Grunfeld isn't budging on the offer. We were used as I suspected, his agent got the Clips to fess up to the Wizards offer. 

I'd offer Claxton similar to what Lue had last year if not than I'd pass. 

I don't think a Hughes/Blake comination could be any worse than Lue and Hughes. Blake is even more of a natural pg than Lue was. I still have reservations on Blake but what the heck can't be worse than getting kenny Anderson. We may actually discover a hidden gem. 

Blake just needs to prove that he can shoot well enough to make teams play him honest.


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## MJG

I have never cared much for Claxton as our PG, and I agree that we should not offer him very much at all. Though I haven't been following his career ultra-close or anything, the only two periods in his career that I recall him playing well were during this year's Finals and the start of last season when Iverson was injured. Other than during those short periods of time, I've heard absolutley nothing about Claxton -- and judging by his numbers, that's with good reason. He looks like he's destined to be a good backup rather than any kind of starter, and that's not something we need to throw an MLE (or even slightly less) at.

As for PG's on the market, off the top of my head there are a few that I like. Arenas is an obvious choice, but now that the Clippers have made an offer equal to ours, I don't see why he'd come here. We've been called the Clippers of the east, so it's not as if we're that much more attractive of a destination -- plus the Clips play near his home, which is almost always a plus for the player. I still think that we should at least make an offer to Terry, probably for around what Maggette of the Clippers is getting from the Jazz. It'd likely be matched if he chose to sign it, but he is definitely the best non-Arenas player left at the spot. Honestly, other than those two, there is not a single point left that any good team would start. Some of the better choices include: Chris Whitney, Earl Boykins, and Rod Strickland. Not exactly names that set your heart on fire, I know.

Considering we aren't going to be any good anyways (assuming we can't get Arenas), I think we should just take whatever veteran is willing to take the minimum and give Blake a shot. That may sound like a poor choice, but I'd rather give the minutes from a bad team to a sharp-looking rookie who could be with our team for 10+ years than some random Bimbo Coles type who'll be retired in 2 years. If he really struggles right out of the gate, then we could give the role back to Hughes. I know he doesn't want it and it isn't his position, but again on a team that won't be very good it shouldn't matter as much. He can do an adequate job at running point. If worst comes to worst then we can just play whoever that veteran PG that we sign at that spot. I know it's never a good idea to 'save' cap space that you have, but I'd rather we not spend any money than to overpay a Claxton-type, who'd hurt us financially for multiple years.


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## local_sportsfan

I haven't been here in a while. Whats up guys?

Anyway, here's my whole take on Arenas....get him.  

Seriously though, it isn't over for GA and the Wiz. According to a few sources (name Ric Bucher), the Clips offered only 48 mil for 6 years, not the 60/6 the Wizards offered. So from a monetary standpoint, the Wiz are still tops. However, his heart is still with GS, and he desperately wants to stay on the West.

It should be an interesting week.


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## NorthEast Wiz

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> I haven't been here in a while. Whats up guys?
> 
> Anyway, here's my whole take on Arenas....get him.
> 
> Seriously though, it isn't over for GA and the Wiz. According to a few sources (name Ric Bucher), the Clips offered only 48 mil for 6 years, not the 60/6 the Wizards offered. So from a monetary standpoint, the Wiz are still tops. However, his heart is still with GS, and he desperately wants to stay on the West.
> 
> It should be an interesting week.


Finally showing the guys some love. 

I was looking for a decision today but it looks like later in the week before we hear something. I would love to get him but I'm happy we put an offer out there and are sticking to it (not pulling a Juwan on this one).


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## BCH

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> I haven't been here in a while. Whats up guys?
> 
> Anyway, here's my whole take on Arenas....get him.
> 
> Seriously though, it isn't over for GA and the Wiz. According to a few sources (name Ric Bucher), the Clips offered only 48 mil for 6 years, not the 60/6 the Wizards offered. So from a monetary standpoint, the Wiz are still tops. However, his heart is still with GS, and he desperately wants to stay on the West.
> 
> It should be an interesting week.


I thought you had forsaken us.

I am like NorthEast Wiz. I am glad that we at least are playing the game with FAs and not doing it in typical Washington style.


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## Izlar

Arenas signed with the Wizards.

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0721/1583869.html


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## jazzy1

WOW this catches me totally off guard. I don't see the regulars like BCH, Northeast, Local, Mikedc, Shroombal, MJG. So I'm guessing they didn't anticipate this either. 

We paid the price and ultimately I think we did the right thing. We needed a pg and needed to make a splash in order to create a buzz to restore excitement in town and this may have done it. 

I had been complaining that we weren't active in free agency, and Ernie G came in and mixed it up. He got in the game and he and Eddie Jordan and Phil Hubbard did alittle insider trading and made the Wizards seem attractive to a West Coast guy. 

I just didn't think that Arenas's agent could leave this much money on the table. 

And whats the biggest Irony I'd bet my last dollar that MJ playing last year allowed the league salary cap to go up giving us extra money. 

*If this team is good next year and make the playoffs it will be because of MJ the Wizards had cap room ,young players and a postive outlook . MJ is responsible for the cap room . He made good reasonable deals, that may bring us some glory* 

We are NOW in the MIX teams have to consider us. 

*IF KWAME can step up we could be right there.* 

Arenas
Stackhouse
Hayes
Brown
Haywood


Off the bench
Blake
Hughes
Jared Jeffrie
Laet, Thomas
Jahidi

Dixon a utility sub. instant offense. 

We can win with that if EJ's system can work.


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## SALO

That's a whole lotta dinero but who cares, Arenas is a stud. 

Great signing.


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## MJG

I heard that he was going to make his decision on Monday, but I wasn't expecting it to come at 11:59pm :laugh: Some will definitely think this is overpayment, but I like the choice. Even more than just getting Arenas, I'm excited to see that we actually did something big. We aren't exactly known as big FA players, so this is definitely good news.

As for how much he'll help our team next year: I still don't think we're playoff contenders. We definitely jump out of the cellar of the east and move into the "competing for the 8 spot" group, but I don't think we make it. However, this will pay off big over time. PG is one of, if not the most important position to receive solid play from. If Arenas does nothing more than average what he did last year, we are still very well off for the next six years at the 1 spot. If he continues to improve, we could have an annual all-star on our hands.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I heard that he was going to make his decision on Monday, but I wasn't expecting it to come at 11:59pm :laugh: Some will definitely think this is overpayment, but I like the choice. Even more than just getting Arenas, I'm excited to see that we actually did something big. We aren't exactly known as big FA players, so this is definitely good news.
> 
> As for how much he'll help our team next year: I still don't think we're playoff contenders. We definitely jump out of the cellar of the east and move into the "competing for the 8 spot" group, but I don't think we make it. However, this will pay off big over time. PG is one of, if not the most important position to receive solid play from. If Arenas does nothing more than average what he did last year, we are still very well off for the next six years at the 1 spot. If he continues to improve, we could have an annual all-star on our hands.


I see us in the playoff mix.

The Bucks I think have fallen. I think we have passed the Magic. Juwan Howard is an older Drew Gooden. Lue is Lue. I still don't think they have any brusing centers that can cause us problems inside. 

Nets
Pistons
Pacers
Celtics
Hornets

are the top 5 teams

Philly
Magic
Wizards
Raptors
Bulls
Hawks

and to a lesser degree Cavs. are the teams I think fight it out for the last 3 spots. AI and Tmac are superstars who can carry their teams but they have serious weakness's inside. 

I could see us snagging one of those spots if Kwame steps up which I think he will. 

The east is wide open. If we can't make the playoffs I'd be surprised with our new line-up . We can compete.


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## MJG

My guess is that the only team to drop out is the Bucks and that the Bulls will take their spot. Orlando finished tied for 7th last year, and they're only going to be better next year. They added Howard and Lue, which is an improvment over Kemp and Vaughn. Factor in the experience gained by Gooden and Giricek and I think they'll finish 4th in the east next year. I believed we would finish 13th or 14th in the east pre-Arenas, and I don't think he is good enough to make us leapfrog up to 8th or higher. We still will have and depend upon too many young and unproven players next season -- the season after that, however, we could be a wrecking ball.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> My guess is that the only team to drop out is the Bucks and that the Bulls will take their spot. Orlando finished tied for 7th last year, and they're only going to be better next year. They added Howard and Lue, which is an improvment over Kemp and Vaughn. Factor in the experience gained by Gooden and Giricek and I think they'll finish 4th in the east next year. I believed we would finish 13th or 14th in the east pre-Arenas, and I don't think he is good enough to make us leapfrog up to 8th or higher. We still will have and depend upon too many young and unproven players next season -- the season after that, however, we could be a wrecking ball.


I think you're giving the Magic too much credit. No way the Magic are 4th in the east. The Hornets lost no one and added David West. Lue isn't a legitimate starting pg. He's a stop gap guy. Howard and Gooden play the same postion. So the Magiv once again won't have a center worth note. Howard adds scoring but you're talking to Wizards fans who know how his suffering game can drain a team. 

The Bulls are no better than we are. Kwame I think is better than Chandler. Curry can become a menace on offense but his defense and conditioning early in the season are really poor. Pippen is gonna help but lets be real he'll be in a suit 30 games next year. His body is gonna break down so he won't be all that effective. 

I see us as good as the Raptors who have an injury prone star. 

The Bulls young also. Not good enough in the backcourt. Hinrich isn't playing nearly as good as Blake is this summer. 


Magic same problems as always. Got a steal in Bogans. Howard will help. Lue is very inconsistent. Good one night missing in others. Solid 3pt shooter not a solid ball hamdler though. 

Bucks have fallen, Knicks are the same, Hawks aren't any good, 

Wizards. We can count on solid play from Stackhouse, and now Arenas. Haywood is good defensively challenging shots. Hughes is dependable. Hayes I think you're under selling. He's a rook but has ability to score. Laetner solid rebounder and open shot maker. Etan could break out also. Jahidi bangs and creates space a good screen setter, 

Big question Marks are 
Kwame
Jared jeffries

If Kwame can average about 14-15 ppg 8- 10 rebs we're in business. I think with 30+mintues per game he can do that. 

Jared Jeffries is a wild card. If he can come back healthy he could be a huge boost. He has size ball handiling, and is a great offensive rebounder. He was solid in his long range shooting. 

I'm telling you we have question marks with young players but they have experience now and are at the stage to be developed they aren't wide eyed anymore. 

I think you are giving too much credit to Vets like Lue and Hward who aren't differnce makers on teams. Howard only plays well on bad teams when he's given free reign to jack up sjots. When in Dallas he was non existent. He wasn't the 1st option and struggled same will happen in Orlando. 

I don't see any of the teams from 5 on down that we couldn't beat out for a playoff spot. I just don't see the Bulls as that far ahead of where we are. I actually prefer our mix of talent. Too much hype placed on end of the season meaningless games where Bulls players put up big stats.


----------



## MJG

The top three spots are probably locked up to Detroit, New Jersey, and Indiana, simple as that. I've given the Hornets too much credit for too many years now -- I'm tired of ranking them up near the top of the east just to have them disapoint me. They should easily make the top four in the east, but they never play as well as I think they should. Depiste that, I still think that they'll get either the 4th or 5th seed, with Orlando getting whatever they don't. I would've bumped up Orlando anyways just because of improvements that'll be made by Hunter/Giricek/Gooden as well as the knowledge that Hill definitely won't play, but considering they added two solid (if not earth-shattering) veterans, I think they'll improve by at least five wins next year. While that may not sound like much, that should be enough to get them to at least the 5th seed. I don't care much for Boston or Philly's teams, but they are still solid enough to be in the playoffs. One will get the 6th and the other will get the 7th -- I think they're both likely first round exits, so it doesn't matter much.

That leaves one playoff spot open, since the Bucks are probably dropping straight to the bottom of the conference. I completely rule out Miami (not enough good players), Cleveland (I believe still one year away), New York (will be worse if they in fact brought in Van Horn), and Atlanta (virtually the same team as last year). That leaves us, Chicago, and Toronto to go for the last spot. I don't care for the Raptors in similar fashion to how I don't care for the Sixers/Celtics, so I don't think they'll get in. They are too injury-prone and I don't think Bosh will make a big difference next season. I don't think we get in because there are just too many ifs on our team. If Jeffries can come back without a hitch, if Hughes can adjust to getting significantly less minutes off the bench, if Kwame can finally begin his development, if Stackhouse can stay true to his recent unselfish play, if Arenas doesn't fall back on his lush contract, etc etc etc. It's very possible those could all work out for us, but I wouldn't count on it. Chicago, on the other hand, has just as much in quality young players as we do (Kwame/JJ/Hayes/Arenas vs. Curry/Chandler/Hinrich/Crawford) with a better set of veterans (Stackhouse/Hughes/White/Laettner vs. Rose/Marshall/Pippen/Fizer). I think they get the 8th spot.

I do have a strong habit of being on the pessimistic side, however -- I hate getting my expectations up


----------



## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> The top three spots are probably locked up to Detroit, New Jersey, and Indiana, simple as that. I've given the Hornets too much credit for too many years now -- I'm tired of ranking them up near the top of the east just to have them disapoint me. They should easily make the top four in the east, but they never play as well as I think they should. Depiste that, I still think that they'll get either the 4th or 5th seed, with Orlando getting whatever they don't. I would've bumped up Orlando anyways just because of improvements that'll be made by Hunter/Giricek/Gooden as well as the knowledge that Hill definitely won't play, but considering they added two solid (if not earth-shattering) veterans, I think they'll improve by at least five wins next year. While that may not sound like much, that should be enough to get them to at least the 5th seed. I don't care much for Boston or Philly's teams, but they are still solid enough to be in the playoffs. One will get the 6th and the other will get the 7th -- I think they're both likely first round exits, so it doesn't matter much.
> 
> That leaves one playoff spot open, since the Bucks are probably dropping straight to the bottom of the conference. I completely rule out Miami (not enough good players), Cleveland (I believe still one year away), New York (will be worse if they in fact brought in Van Horn), and Atlanta (virtually the same team as last year). That leaves us, Chicago, and Toronto to go for the last spot. I don't care for the Raptors in similar fashion to how I don't care for the Sixers/Celtics, so I don't think they'll get in. They are too injury-prone and I don't think Bosh will make a big difference next season. I don't think we get in because there are just too many ifs on our team. If Jeffries can come back without a hitch, if Hughes can adjust to getting significantly less minutes off the bench, if Kwame can finally begin his development, if Stackhouse can stay true to his recent unselfish play, if Arenas doesn't fall back on his lush contract, etc etc etc. It's very possible those could all work out for us, but I wouldn't count on it. Chicago, on the other hand, has just as much in quality young players as we do (Kwame/JJ/Hayes/Arenas vs. Curry/Chandler/Hinrich/Crawford) with a better set of veterans (Stackhouse/Hughes/White/Laettner vs. Rose/Marshall/Pippen/Fizer). I think they get the 8th spot.
> 
> I do have a strong habit of being on the pessimistic side, however -- I hate getting my expectations up



How is Rose/Marshall/Pippen/Fizer better than Arenas/Stackhouse/Laetner/hughes. 

Hughes played well last year coming off the bench. He had a good season. The Bulls lets be accurate have 2 potentially good young guys. In Chandler and Curry. We have Kwame and Jeffries. Kwame spanked Curry and Chandler both time last year. He was right there with them when given minutes and better at times. 

You're giving some teams too much credit. 



Nets
Pistons
Pacers
Hornets
Celtic

Thye have that on lock. 

Orlando
Washington
Bulls
Sixers
Raptors
Hawks

Why are the Bulls better Pippen is broke down but solid WHEN healthy which is a big question mark. Are Curry and Chandler ready to take the next step. They had good games towards the end of the season but what happened through the meat of the schedule. They have followed that pattern for 2 years good finish slow begining. My theory is Curry takes at least the 1st half to be in really good shape. In the 2nd half with no pressure to win and Cartwright knows he has no choice but to play them they perform then What happens before they're eliminated they play inconsistent and BC benches them.Hinrich and Crawford are also question marks. 

We have an allstar caliber backcourt with Arenas and Stackhouse. We have developing players in Kwame and Haywood. I think you're too much in the dvelopment phase mindset this is a production year. Hughes is solid off the bench. Hayes I think can become special. His shooting will open up the floor. If our Bigs show up I think we're possibly in.

To count the Bulls in is ridiculous. They won what 3 road games last year. Now suddenly they're in the playoffs. Remeber Fizer is coming off an injury just like JJ is but his happened later. Losing Jay Williams is a big blow also. 

I like our chances with Arenas. We have question Marks but so does everyone in the east. 

Philly- who plays inside for them kenny Thomas averaged 10ppg and got a huge contract DC is a free agent. Van Horn is soft and on the block. 

Bucks -dead

Magic-interior, pg problems, interior defense, no shot nlocking

Bulls -pg,sg, question marks, pippen's health. 

Raptors- VC health, no center, Is Bosh ready, pg weakness. 

Wizards-inexperienced interior but we have size, Kwame will he step up. 

I think we fit in the playoffs mix. 5-8 is available especially if EJ is as good a coach as I think he can be.


----------



## NorthEast Wiz

Here is what the Post had to say:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26209-2003Jul21.html

I am more excited about this team than I have been for quite some time. We are young, athletic and talented. We are also fairly healthy cap wise for the next few years. 

Everyone is saying it and it is true, a lot depends on how Kwame performs this year. He is in a good situation with strong guards that can shoot, which should open things up for him inside. He is our only player with any low post moves in the four or five spot. 

I am interested to see how JJ comes along. He started the year so strong that I am interested to see how he performs.

I think this wil be good for Steve Blake also. I see us signing him to a two year deal. He could be the perfect backup.


----------



## BCH

See what happens when I lose interest? He signs. I should not care more often. Now that he is signed, I obviously hope he wasn't a waste. I have the same feeling of trepidation I did when Howard signed, hoping it was not a waste.

Here is to hoping it was not a waste.



> *If this team is good next year and make the playoffs it will be because of MJ the Wizards had cap room ,young players and a postive outlook . MJ is responsible for the cap room . He made good reasonable deals, that may bring us some glory *


I agree with this 100%.


----------



## superdave

Kudos on the offer to Arenas. I consider him the best young PG in the game. As I said on the Bulls board, this means 8-10 more wins for the Wiz.


----------



## johnston797

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> *If this team is good next year and make the playoffs it will be because of MJ the Wizards had cap room ,young players and a postive outlook . MJ is responsible for the cap room . He made good reasonable deals, that may bring us some glory*


I Agree!

Ironic that MJ was bashed with the naysayers complaining that when he left the cupboard would be bare.

Your team would contend with the Pacers for the best *28 and Under team* in the East. Grenfeld deserves a lot of credit for Arenas, but MJ did ok, too.

5: Haywood, Thomas
4: Brown, Jeffries
3: Hughes, Hayes
2: Stackhouse, Dixon
1: Arenas, Blake


----------



## MikeDC

Wow, I thought for sure he'd be heading for the Clips!

This is downright awesome news for us. I'd like to be objective and look at the possible downside of him flaking out, but I really think that whatever problems the kid has, he wants to win and plays pissed off. Hopefully this contract won't change that. While it's a big one, it's not a completely ridiculous one... not a max contract. He might not totally live up to it, but I don't think it's enough that he'll be considered a horrible bust.

And on the court... man, I like what I see. Jordan and Grunfeld are continuing and enhancing MJ's vision of a fast-break style team and getting players that should fit into the mold. There's a LOT to be said for continuity and getting players that fit the style of play IMO, and we seem to be working that fairly well. I'm very comfortable now with the way the team looks, except for my recurring fears about Kwame. If I was as sold on him as I am on some of the league's other young players, I'd be really happy. The bottom line for the upcoming season and beyond, I think, is that we get as far as he gets. Arenas and Stack are about as good a backcourt as you'll get if Arenas does what we think he's capable of. If Hughes is with the program he makes an awesome sixth man who can be capable at either position (or they could slid Stack to the three in certain situations and go with Arenas, Hughes, and Stack... I expect to see some of this early while JJ and Hayes learn the ropes).

At the three they're very green with JJ and Hayes, but they've both got a lot to offer.

Kwame, though, seems to be the only frontcourt player we have that has the potential to do big things. The other guys are pretty clearly roleplayers. If Kwame becomes a star then we've got the kind of inside-outside attack that teams need. If Kwame's just average we start to look more and more a Miami or Orlando... other teams with a lot of good perimeter players but not much up front to balance it out. We need Kwame to be a star or at least show he's going to be a star to get into the playoffs.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> Wow, I thought for sure he'd be heading for the Clips!
> 
> This is downright awesome news for us. I'd like to be objective and look at the possible downside of him flaking out, but I really think that whatever problems the kid has, he wants to win and plays pissed off. Hopefully this contract won't change that. While it's a big one, it's not a completely ridiculous one... not a max contract. He might not totally live up to it, but I don't think it's enough that he'll be considered a horrible bust.
> 
> And on the court... man, I like what I see. Jordan and Grunfeld are continuing and enhancing MJ's vision of a fast-break style team and getting players that should fit into the mold. There's a LOT to be said for continuity and getting players that fit the style of play IMO, and we seem to be working that fairly well. I'm very comfortable now with the way the team looks, except for my recurring fears about Kwame. If I was as sold on him as I am on some of the league's other young players, I'd be really happy. The bottom line for the upcoming season and beyond, I think, is that we get as far as he gets. Arenas and Stack are about as good a backcourt as you'll get if Arenas does what we think he's capable of. If Hughes is with the program he makes an awesome sixth man who can be capable at either position (or they could slid Stack to the three in certain situations and go with Arenas, Hughes, and Stack... I expect to see some of this early while JJ and Hayes learn the ropes).
> 
> At the three they're very green with JJ and Hayes, but they've both got a lot to offer.
> 
> Kwame, though, seems to be the only frontcourt player we have that has the potential to do big things. The other guys are pretty clearly roleplayers. If Kwame becomes a star then we've got the kind of inside-outside attack that teams need. If Kwame's just average we start to look more and more a Miami or Orlando... other teams with a lot of good perimeter players but not much up front to balance it out. We need Kwame to be a star or at least show he's going to be a star to get into the playoffs.


I agree with your analysis here. I am not as quesy about Kwame as you are but I feel your skepticism. If Kwame can get 14, 15ppg, and 8,9 rpg,I'd be happy. 

Continuity is gonna be big with this team. We have to prevent Stackhouse from doing what MJ did last season. We are gonna have to be committed to incorporating the big guys in this motion offense. I'm a bit skeptical that Stack will play well in this system. I like the idea of being up-tempo and pushing the ball. Arenas is very fast in transition and he attacks the basket well. 

Jarvis Hayes is another great athlete so fast breaking should open up easy opportunites. But in the half court, can we avoid the turnovers I think could be the biggest concern. Kwame and Stack have shown to be turnover prone so this could become a problem. 

But with Arenas and Blake behind him we should be able to having a functioning offense that gets the ball up court in a hurry. 

I'm still in it for cheap thrills, but I can see some promise and like forrest gump thats all I'm gonna say about that. 

You never speak on prosperity with the Wizards, you wish it but don't speak on it because its the thing your not thinking of that goes wrong.


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## MJG

I posted this in the Chicago board when they were arguing about how they matched up with us and who had a better shot at the playoffs. We are amazingly evenly matched with them, and I'll be looking forward to Chicago vs. Washington matches big time 



> Hughes won't be starting for us; Stack will be the SG and Hayes or Jeffries will be at the SF (with many of us starting to assume it'll be Hayes). I believe that you guys still edge us out for the playoffs, with you nabbing the 8th spot and us finishing 9th. I just think your two kiddies are further along than our guy, which should help you pick up more wins early in the year. I do think our teams have a very similar build, however, and if we both sick with what we have it could turn into a fun rivalry
> 
> PG: Arenas vs. Crawford
> SG: Stackhouse vs. Rose
> SF: Hayes vs. Pippen
> PF: Kwame vs. Chandler
> C: Haywood vs. Curry (okay, you got us there)
> BPG: Blake vs. Hinrich
> BSG: Hughes vs. Hassell
> BSF: Jeffries vs. Marshall
> BPF: Etan vs. Fizer
> BC: White vs. Blount (?)
> 11: Laettner vs. Robinson
> 12: Dixon vs. Mason
> 
> I may not have your team pegged totally right (Blount isn't signed yet, I believe), but that still looks like a good matchup from top to bottom to me.


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## JonMatrix

Crawford vs. Arenas - It depends on which Crawford shows up,if its the sulking Crawford from the middle of last season then the Wiz win easily,but if its the Crawford from the end of last season then we have a pretty fun matchup to watch. Still,I think Arenas has the upper hand.

Stackhouse vs. Rose- Neither guy is known for his defensive capabilities. Still,Stack has one of the best first steps in the league.

Hayes vs. Pippen- Hayes has the youth and athleticism but Pippen has veteran experience and is still a lockdown defender for about 20-25 minutes a game.

Brown vs. Chandler- #1 pick vs. #2 pick. Brown's offensive skill vs. Chandler's defensive presence. Brown usually plays well against Chandler, last season he averaged 12 ppg and 6.5 rpg in 21 minutes a game against Chicago. 

Haywood vs. Curry- Um....sorry but Chicago wins this matchup easily.


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## NorthEast Wiz

Warriors have signed Claxton so it is a done deal for us. I bet we had a deal with Claxton to sign with us if the G.A. deal fell through.

http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/stein_marc/1584121.html


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## MJG

That was the type of contract I thought was appropriate for Claxton. I wonder how much we would have offered him ...


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## STOMP

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Negatives I think I know. Maybe a questionable leader. Walked out of practice. Bought an Escalade before he had a guaranteed contract. Tricked it out spending almost 90K. I remember at the time people thought he was crazy for doing that. But he's shown complete confidence in his self. May not be a true pg as far as pass 1st is concerned.


Hello again jazzy1, just in to clarify a few things here on your listed negatives on Arenas. I've followed Gilbert closely since Arizona, and I live 2/3rds of the year in SF, so I've kept up on his various happenings. He didn't walk out on practice, his agent called in to the GSW secretary when he was ill but the coaching staff didn't get the message before making a public comment that it was unexcused. The media (of course) made a big deal out of it like he was trying to send the organization a message, but I heard a radio interview where he said it was just that he had the flu and some miscommunication. 

The first contract he signed made news because it was guarenteed which is not the norm for a 2nd rounder. He did blow a large chunk of it on an Escalade, but as someone who lived a part of his childhood out of his Dad's car, maybe that was pretty important to him. 

I have a couple of friends who are phycologists in the Bay Area and are friendly with the Warrior's sports phycologist. According to this distant source... Gilbert is childlike in many respects and extremely whimsical. I've heard some stories about him that confirm this, but none of them have been malicious, just sort of stupid silly stuff. He's a practical joker and a little bit from left field with his demeanor, but teammates do seem to really like him. He is just 21, so whatever... he'll likely mature. The amount of T's he recieved last season is a concern though...

Positive side- he can hit a jumper off of the dribble going either direction, and the moment the defender plays up on him he'll blow by to finish around the hoop. Not just slams, he can use the high backboard to finish over big guys. He's so quick and long, he can defend a variety of players. I've heard him interviewed a number of times by HOFer Rick Barry here in the Bay Area, and he's very earnest and confident. He's your new best player IMO. Enjoy...

STOMP


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## NorthEast Wiz

Thanks for the replies STOMP. While I have seen Gilbert a few times last year it is nice to hear from someone that has seen him more. I am not surprised by the media's over-reaction to the initial negative news and under-reaction to the explanation.

Seems conisistent with A.I. overplay of the incident with his wife and underplay when it was discovered that the main witness lied.


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## MJG

Everyone knows that it's the negative news that sells, so they squeeze every bit they can out of that. That was a very informative post, so thank you


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## STOMP

> Originally posted by <b>NorthEast Wiz</b>!
> I am not surprised by the media's over-reaction to the initial negative news and under-reaction to the explanation.


Whats annoying to me is that even when the player and the organization clear up the matter publicly, that a year later the tabloidish "he skipped practice once" will still be reported. This sort of stuff is why so many athletes have an adversarial relationship with the media. An incident that was misreported once can haunt a player for years. I guess plain old hoops isn't enough intrigue to hold the interest of some of the casual fans. Us diehards are hooked regardless...

STOMP


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> Hello again jazzy1, just in to clarify a few things here on your listed negatives on Arenas. I've followed Gilbert closely since Arizona, and I live 2/3rds of the year in SF, so I've kept up on his various happenings. He didn't walk out on practice, his agent called in to the GSW secretary when he was ill but the coaching staff didn't get the message before making a public comment that it was unexcused. The media (of course) made a big deal out of it like he was trying to send the organization a message, but I heard a radio interview where he said it was just that he had the flu and some miscommunication.
> 
> The first contract he signed made news because it was guarenteed which is not the norm for a 2nd rounder. He did blow a large chunk of it on an Escalade, but as someone who lived a part of his childhood out of his Dad's car, maybe that was pretty important to him.
> 
> I have a couple of friends who are phycologists in the Bay Area and are friendly with the Warrior's sports phycologist. According to this distant source... Gilbert is childlike in many respects and extremely whimsical. I've heard some stories about him that confirm this, but none of them have been malicious, just sort of stupid silly stuff. He's a practical joker and a little bit from left field with his demeanor, but teammates do seem to really like him. He is just 21, so whatever... he'll likely mature. The amount of T's he recieved last season is a concern though...
> 
> Positive side- he can hit a jumper off of the dribble going either direction, and the moment the defender plays up on him he'll blow by to finish around the hoop. Not just slams, he can use the high backboard to finish over big guys. He's so quick and long, he can defend a variety of players. I've heard him interviewed a number of times by HOFer Rick Barry here in the Bay Area, and he's very earnest and confident. He's your new best player IMO. Enjoy...
> 
> STOMP


Good stuff, glad to hear some unbiased stuff not the typical angry fans dissing the man on the way out the door stuff. 

Warriors really got burned by the rules. I guess the new rule is if a player becomes a star as a 2n rd pick then you're screwed. Unless you have cap room.


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## STOMP

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Good stuff, glad to hear some unbiased stuff not the typical angry fans dissing the man on the way out the door stuff.
> 
> Warriors really got burned by the rules. I guess the new rule is if a player becomes a star as a 2n rd pick then you're screwed. Unless you have cap room.


I'm a Blazer fan, but more of fan of individual players and the game in general. Being more physically gifted then just about anyone makes Gilbert pretty fun to watch. The Wiz now have some first rate thieves on their squad.

I don't feel sorry for the Warriors one little bit as they're just making due with the bed they made. This bleep didn't just happen to them, the guys in charge did it. St. Jean (their GM) has been a bumbling fool for 5 years or so now, and their owner, Chris Cohan, is rivaling DST as the worst in hoops. Their cap situation was created by Saint massively overpaying for Jason Caffee (who turned into equally overpayed Bobby Sura), Erick Dampier, Danny Fortson, and maxing out Antawn Jamison. You have him to thank as much as anyone for getting both Hughes and Arenas on your squad. Why a guy with no GMing experience, and a horrible record as a head coach in Sacremento was given a longterm deal to run a pro franchise is a mystery to me.

I could write paragraphs detailing what a piece of work their owner is. He has seemingly fired or sued everyone he's ever worked with in the Bay Area, and completely mishandled every situation thats confronted him. Reportedly David Stern keeps sending interested parties his way in hopes of buying him out, but he keeps saying "no." With Gilbert publicly blaming him as to why he didn't resign, perhaps he'll finally be pushed to cash in his chips and give the Warriors fans some hope.

STOMP


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm a Blazer fan, but more of fan of individual players and the game in general. Being more physically gifted then just about anyone makes Gilbert pretty fun to watch. The Wiz now have some first rate thieves on their squad.
> 
> I don't feel sorry for the Warriors one little bit as they're just making due with the bed they made. This bleep didn't just happen to them, the guys in charge did it. St. Jean (their GM) has been a bumbling fool for 5 years or so now, and their owner, Chris Cohan, is rivaling DST as the worst in hoops. Their cap situation was created by Saint massively overpaying for Jason Caffee (who turned into equally overpayed Bobby Sura), Erick Dampier, Danny Fortson, and maxing out Antawn Jamison. You have him to thank as much as anyone for getting both Hughes and Arenas on your squad. Why a guy with no GMing experience, and a horrible record as a head coach in Sacremento was given a longterm deal to run a pro franchise is a mystery to me.
> 
> I could write paragraphs detailing what a piece of work their owner is. He has seemingly fired or sued everyone he's ever worked with in the Bay Area, and completely mishandled every situation thats confronted him. Reportedly David Stern keeps sending interested parties his way in hopes of buying him out, but he keeps saying "no." With Gilbert publicly blaming him as to why he didn't resign, perhaps he'll finally be pushed to cash in his chips and give the Warriors fans some hope.
> 
> STOMP



Too many players that aren't superstar are getting maxed out and its ridiculous. Kenyon Martin is the next player who's not worthy of being maxed out who will be. Drives me crazy because those moves ruin your franchise. 

Case in point Elton Brand a good player but no superstar but he gets an 82 mill offer which is crazy. The Clipps should have let him go. The 1st time Sterling wants to spend money and he overpays the wrong guy, ridiculous. Brand is a slightly better rebounding juwan howard. He doesn't make your team better he doesn't scare other teams he's just a guy that show up and gets 18 and 10 on the regular. Why do owners makes superstars out of these types of players. Brand hasn't improved either team he's played for in hsi career. He didn't make the Bulls a big factor and he hasn't changed the Clipps fortune. Sure you could say it wasn't his faullt but had Duncan been either place would their record have improved sure it would have. 


Why the Wizards offer is justified to Arenas is this. I think he more than anybody made the Warriors competitve last season. Sure people point to Mussleman and I think thats correct but Arenas I think was the catalyst for the improved play. Having a good ,athletic pg can make all the difference in your team. 

Arenas and Boykins in tandem made the usually sloppy Warriors a legit team on the rise out West. The fused together the other talent that had been there for years. 

Thats why I laugh when people underestimate the value of a good pg. They can make a talented team of good parts extremely good. 

Arenas being young, very tough and competitive make him worth the offer really. The added money on the top was just to get the job done but he's not in the 80 mill range and he'll be tradebale still if things don't work out. 

Could be the best move by a team in all free agency.


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## STOMP

You're preaching to the choir jazzy. I agree with everything you said from Elton to Mussleman to Gilbert being a difference maker. But what do I know... 

STOMP


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