# Name the young PG/SG youd rather have than Livingston



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

I dont mean this to be a livingston bashing thread, but Im hoping that things like this are considered by the Clippers front office BEFORE giving him such a large contract. So please, lets just name ONE AND ONLY ONE name each post here, ok? And lets see if we can even get this thread to more than one page. Youd think that if the clippers are thinking of giving him 50 million, you couldnt name more than a couple young guys youd want more than him.

So pick ONE AND ONLY ONE name, who has been in the league 4 years or less, AND is 25 years old or less, and who is a PG, or a SG/PG combo since livvy does play that position as well.

Just to compare, here is Livingston's stats
Age: 21
Year: Third
Stats: 31 minutes, 9.7 points, 5.6 assists, 3 rebounds, 4/14 three pointers



Ill start it off. (put their age and stats here too)


1. Monta Ellis
Age: 21
Year: Second
Stats: 34 minutes, 18 points, 4 assists, 3 rebounds, 25/95 three pointers


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Chris Paul
Age: 21
Year: 2nd
Stats: 18 PPG, 4.40 RPG, 9 APG in 37 minutes


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

this is a fun thread

3. deron williams

year: 2nd
stats: 16.7 Ppg, 8.7 ast, 3.6 reb in 34 min

i have so much more, why does it need to be limited to one?


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

4. brandon roy

age: 23
year: 1st
stats: 13.4 ppg, 3.7 reb, 2.9 ast in 31 min

EDIT: are players from the 2004 draft class valid or no? most have already been extended on their teams so it might not be possible to go after them


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

5. raymond felton

age: 23
year: 2nd
stats: 14.0 ppg, 7.7 ast, 3.7 reb in 38 min


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

*6. Andre Iguodala*

6'6, 22 years old (turning 23 this month)

16.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, 2.1 spg


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

*7. Ben Gordon*

6'3, 22 years old

21 ppg, 3.3 apg, 2.7 rpg, .7 spg


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

to think we could have had Paul or Felton had Clippers delt Livingston during the draft to move up into the top 5, hell maybe even given up our own pick to do it since Korolev will be nothing as a Clipper, but I'll continue the thread:

*8] Raymond Felton*
6'1 PG, Will Turn 23 On June 26th

This Year: 14 Points | 7.7 Assists | 3.7 Rebounds | 1.4 Steals | 3.03 Turnovers in 38.2 Minutes


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

*Kirk Hinrich*

Age: 25, 4th year in the league

35 mpg, 15 ppg, 6 ast, 3 rebounds, 40% 3-pt


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

*Tony Parker* (technically inelegible)

Age: 24, sixth year

33 mpg, 19.2 ppg, 5.6 ast, 3.2 rebounds, 48% 3-pt


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

anybody


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## bruindre (Jul 18, 2004)

*11*. T.J. Ford
Age: 23
Year: Third
Stats: 32 minutes, 16 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds, 11/34 three pointers


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## PFortyy (May 31, 2006)

*12. Kevin Martin*

_36.3 minutes 21.2ppg 4.6 rebounds 2.2 assists 1.2 steals_


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

qross1fan said:


> to think we could have had Paul or Felton had Clippers delt Livingston during the draft to move up into the top 5, hell maybe even given up our own pick to do it since Korolev will be nothing as a Clipper, but I'll continue the thread:
> 
> *8] Raymond Felton*
> 6'1 PG, Will Turn 23 On June 26th
> ...


i already had felton in #5


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

13. jr smith:

age:21
years pro:3

16.2ppg/2.7rpg/1.7apg/2.7threes/84%ft


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

14. jameer nelson

age:24
years pro:3

13.3ppg/3rpg/4apg/1.1spg/29mpg


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

15. maurice williams

age:24
years pro:4

17.3ppg/5.3rpg/6.2apg/1.2spg/1.1threes/46%fg/83%ft


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

16. Luke Ridnour

Age: 25, years pro: 5

33 minutes, 14 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

17. Jarret Jack

Age 23, 2nd year
13 points, 6 assists, 2 rebounds, 20/76 3 pointers


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## Deathrow (Jul 15, 2006)

18:Guillermo "SUPER MAN" Diaz

age 21, rockie


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> 16. Luke Ridnour
> 
> Age: 25, years pro: 5
> 
> 33 minutes, 14 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds


Dude he's ineligible... you wrote the rules! :makeadeal


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

A healthy Livingston.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

XMATTHEWX said:
 

> A healthy Livingston.



:thinking2:


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> :thinking2:


ummm lol...that's what i was thinking.

all these players that we just listed are players we prefer over livingston, healthy or not. i think many of us here are beginning to realize how much of a bust livingston is, and it's about time we use him as trade bait to get a superstar player.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

XMATTHEWX said:


> A healthy Livingston.


Healthy doesn't matter . . I'd take the Livingston of April during his rookie season over a handful of these guys, but still not all. I still have slight faith in him, but have given up. He should improve, but his work ethic seems to be non-existant.


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> anybody


What do you care? The Clippers already have Ewing who is, like, SOOOO much better than Livingston!


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## livingstononefour (Jun 19, 2006)

tj ford & mo williams. two pg's leading teams with big payrolls and high expectations all the way to the 7-9 spots in the pathetic eastern conference. luke ridnour can't even keep his job from earl watson and most others mentioned wouldn't have any effect on the team if they were running hte point instead of livingston.


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

livingstononefour said:


> tj ford & mo williams. two pg's leading teams with big payrolls and high expectations all the way to the 7-9 spots in the pathetic eastern conference. luke ridnour can't even keep his job from earl watson and most others mentioned wouldn't have any effect on the team if they were running hte point instead of livingston.


livingston hasnt done ****...it's cassell leading us all the way. if cassell was out for the whole year we'd be in the running for oden sweepstakes. 

o and all those point guards you mentioned whose team sucks...it's cuz their team actually sucks. we have far more talent on our team than any of them, and shaun hasn't done anything to make their jobs easier. so to wrap this up, the only good livingston brings to this team is his high trade value...but i can imagine that would run out the longer we keep him


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## livingstononefour (Jun 19, 2006)

if we traded felton for livingston for example, felton would be criticized by us for all the same reasons we don't like livingston and livingston would be averaging 10 dimes a game for charlotte. it's dunleavy's offensive system that doesn't let shaun play his game and if you swap shaun for 85% of the players on your list you'd get the same results as we have now.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

livingstononefour said:


> if we traded felton for livingston for example, felton would be criticized by us for all the same reasons we don't like livingston and livingston would be averaging 10 dimes a game for charlotte. it's dunleavy's offensive system that doesn't let shaun play his game and if you swap shaun for 85% of the players on your list you'd get the same results as we have now.



thank you...i also happen to think it's the offensive "system" of dunleavy rather than livingston's abilities that are to blame for this season's woes...


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## jcwla (Jul 3, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> 1. Monta Ellis
> Age: 21
> Year: Second
> Stats: 34 minutes, 18 points, 4 assists, 3 rebounds, 25/95 three pointers


-----> I thought for sure you were going to say Yuta Tabuse...


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Why in the world would i pick a third stringer for a starter? Thats why i said to have stats there. If we want someone other than livvy, the stats need to back it up.

Now if you ask me if id prefer anthony goldwire or yuta tabuse, thats a completely different story of course.


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## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

Arenas!


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## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

Jermaniac Fan said:


> Arenas!


Everytime I see Arenas go off I wonder what if he had signed with the Clippers that summer. It came down to a ****in coin flip.


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

marcus williams of NJN....livingston is ****ing garbage

EDIT: pardon my bluntness, but there is nothing positive to consider about this kid


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## livingstononefour (Jun 19, 2006)

if you were a blazers fan in the lat 90's, you'd be one of the guys who wanted to trade jermaine o'neal. livingston just turned 21, there is plenty of room to grow.


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

livingstononefour said:


> if you were a blazers fan in the lat 90's, you'd be one of the guys who wanted to trade jermaine o'neal. livingston just turned 21, there is plenty of room to grow.


try harder...jermaine o'neal hardly got playing time in his first couple of seasons. livingston has attempted to start and failed miserably. o'neal was probably much more nba ready than shaun will ever be. 

this is shaun's third season. keep telling yourself that he still has "potential" while we wave off by superstar trades and wind up in the bottom of the cellar.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

livingstononefour said:


> if you were a blazers fan in the lat 90's, you'd be one of the guys who wanted to trade jermaine o'neal. livingston just turned 21, there is plenty of room to grow.



i'm with you on that...one big thing is the offensive philosophy employed by the clippers/dunleavy...halfcourt oriented, slow, and painfully predictable to boot...watch shaun get traded to the nets/suns/toronto(any fastbreaking team), and watch him light up the league...the kid has fastbreak written all over him, and it boggles the mind how dunleavy refuses to adapt the gameplan to the strengths of our players...


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

the thing about livingston that i doubt he can GO ANYWHERE AND DO ANYTHING maybe if he went back to high school he would have an impact, but he cant be anything more than a 3rd tier pg ever and thats saying alot ....
yes hes tall, yes he has "potential" but he will never be able to lead a team ANY team much less the Clippers and we are all witnesses....


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## El chido (Dec 21, 2005)

I am a big time livingston fan. Please do not ask why, because I do not know. I guess that inside of me I am always waiting for him to blowup and become a good player. I think that I have come to realize that in this team he will never reach his potential. I would be willing to trade him for a young guy like marcus williams, just to see if he reaches his potential in a different type of offence. This trade would give us a point guard that can play the half court offence that Dun wants the team to run and also it would give a chance for livi to reach his potential and learn from a fast paste pointgard like J Kidd. Either way I think that both teams would get a good deal.
Please let me know your thoughts on this trade and on my post


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

El chido said:


> I am a big time livingston fan. Please do not ask why, because I do not know. I guess that inside of me I am always waiting for him to blowup and become a good player. I think that I have come to realize that in this team he will never reach his potential. I would be willing to trade him for a young guy like marcus williams, just to see if he reaches his potential in a different type of offence. This trade would give us a point guard that can play the half court offence that Dun wants the team to run and also it would give a chance for livi to reach his potential and learn from a fast paste pointgard like J Kidd. Either way I think that both teams would get a good deal.
> Please let me know your thoughts on this trade and on my post



beginning to feel the same way...although i have yet to lose all hope...it would be interesting to see sergio rodriguez on our team....kid is only 20, so he is actually younger than livingston, and he is averaging about 3.5 apg in only 12 minutes per game(14apg per 48)...i doubt that the blazers would part with him though...i would love a maggs/livy for aldridge/rodriguez deal...only if...

one thing that kind of stood out to me was that rodriguez has gotten 22+ minutes of burn in 5 total games...his assist average was at: *9.6apg*...quite impressive...his turnover average was at *1.8 turnover per game*...

edited to add: i wouldn't like the trade in real life, but i would like to see what the team would be like and just see the results...maybe i should simulate a season on my brother's ps3...


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

the thing that sucks that teams are realizing that Livingston sucks and will not really offer anything for him anymore...the Clippers should have done something when they get the offers...but they didnt wanna get rid of him ...how stupid..


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> the thing that sucks that teams are realizing that Livingston sucks and will not really offer anything for him anymore...the Clippers should have done something when they get the offers...but they didnt wanna get rid of him ...how stupid..



the iverson trade doesn't really bother me, but the deal for paul pierce that fell through really bothers me right now...


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> the iverson trade doesn't really bother me, but the deal for paul pierce that fell through really bothers me right now...


why one over the other? i honestly don't see how you can go wrong either way. but right now, what is the status of pierce? it's like he disappeared off the face off the earth


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

clips_r_teh_wieners said:


> why one over the other? i honestly don't see how you can go wrong either way. but right now, what is the status of pierce? it's like he disappeared off the face off the earth



i like paul better because i don't think he would have been a defensive liability, and he is not a chucker...plus, you got to love a guy who got shanked, and didn't miss a game...in addition to that, paul is a player who doesn't rely on his athleticism to create shots, whereas iverson will go to crap when he loses a step...

and about pierce's status...the celtics claim he is still "injured", but i personally don't believe it...their season is definitely shot...there is no chance of recovery...why not tank???might as well get oden...that's what i think...


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> i like paul better because i don't think he would have been a defensive liability, and he is not a chucker...plus, you got to love a guy who got shanked, and didn't miss a game...in addition to that, paul is a player who doesn't rely on his athleticism to create shots, whereas iverson will go to crap when he loses a step...
> 
> and about pierce's status...the celtics claim he is still "injured", but i personally don't believe it...their season is definitely shot...there is no chance of recovery...why not tank???might as well get oden...that's what i think...


he's killing my fantasy team...that's for sure. but regarding greg oden, or even kevin durant, if anyone's going to get them, i'd be extremely happy if they end up in the east. those two are going to be franchise savers for many weak teams. we don't need a gasol/oden dynasty that would most likely lock up a playoff seed for many years to come. i have more respect for memphis in their decision not to tank. or not blatantly anyways.


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