# Cav's starting five puzzles me...



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Just reading the depth charts in Insidehoops.com and making my predictions for next season's standings when i came across the Cav's chart.

PG- Lebron James;
SG- Davis;
SF- Darius "the underachiever" Miles;
PF- Boozer;
C- Ilgauskas,

with JRBremer and Wags of the bench.

That made me think:

LBJ apears to be a very good player (not saying he's gonna be an All-NBA first teamer, but i would say he's gonna improve the Cav's offensive game a damned lot!);
Ricky is a great scorer and all-around player;
Boozer and Z can give you a double-double every night.
Bremer should be a good back.up point guard and Wags is instant offense from the bench (a la Vinnie Johnson?).

IF DMiles has improved this off-season in his jumper (improved is an euphemism - i'd better say if he has found anything resembling a jump shot), and if the frountcourt bench players can give the Cavs a decent 10-15 mpg, i could see Cleveland easily posting at least 10 more wins next season. 
(all right, nothing to brag about (17-65 in 02-03)...)

But i could also see the Cavs doubling last years win totals and even... (gasp! ) making a run to the 8th seed (the EC just seems to grow weaker and weaker every year)...

Am i delusional?

What do you think?


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Are you delusional? Depends.... are you still talking to yourself? Do you see people and images that others don't? Do the voices in your head disturb your normal conversations? Do you still feel that you have super-powers? Has the doctor cleared you for normal interaction with other humans? Are you still obsessed with the "Alien Probe" you reported last year?:grinning:


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

On paper it's hard to understand how this team would have problems competing with anyone in the east.

They're pretty deep at every position, and have a lot of versatilty.

I think Paul Silas has built another version of the Hornets.

But everyone wants to be really careful with expectations for next year, because this is still a team that underachieved to 15 wins last year(if you remember, there was a lot of buzz about this team, because they were performing well in the preseason).

I honestly don't see why the Cavs can't be very competive in the east. Look at that roster. It's solid at every position. And it seems everyone is taking a role around James already, especially since James isn't a ball hogging scorer.

I don't know. We'll see.

Paul Silas is a terrific coach though. He's one of the best, if not THE best at developing young players. And he knows how to manage overly talented teams.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> Are you delusional? Depends.... are you still talking to yourself? Do you see people and images that others don't? Do the voices in your head disturb your normal conversations? Do you still feel that you have super-powers? Has the doctor cleared you for normal interaction with other humans? Are you still obsessed with the "Alien Probe" you reported last year?:grinning:


Are you saying i wasn't really abducted to a space ship by twelve Carmen Electra's clones who conducted severall weird experiences with my body?


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

I don't understand what puzzles you about it.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> I don't understand what puzzles you about it.


The potential, Bunk, the potential.

IN PAPER, like futurixsten said, the Cavs look pretty solid. Barring injuries, they have the potential to win 30+ games. Or more...
On the other hand, if the chemistry ain't right, or injuries occur, it could be another loong season...

I would say the Cavs are the front-runner for M.I. Team next season...


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

So the potential puzzles you, alright.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> So the potential puzzles you, alright.


Yup.
If it all comes together, the Cavs could make a run to the 8th seed, IMO.
If i thought the Cavs would stink this year, i wouldn't even waste a second thought on them.

That's what puzzles me: a team with so much potential... How far will they go?

Maybe it's my english (wich i know for a fact it's terrible...)...


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

What puzzles me is that we have so much talent and we still only won 17 games. Hopefully Paul Silas can try and turn this franchise into a winning one.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> What puzzles me is that we have so much talent and we still only won 17 games. Hopefully Paul Silas can try and turn this franchise into a winning one.


People were saying the Cavs tanked the season to improve their chances to get #1 draftee = Lebron.
I think even former Cav's players seconded that notion...

Would you agree?


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

NO!!!

I know Ricky Davis wouldn't have tanked anything, so NO!
We have players that are use to winning, on this team, and they all want to win, so why would they lose on purpose? It was just a long season.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> Just reading the depth charts in Insidehoops.com and making my predictions for next season's standings when i came across the Cav's chart.
> 
> PG- Lebron James;
> ...


Dmiles is a new player his legs has caught up with his upper body now.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Re: Cav's starting five puzzles me...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEWILL</b>!
> 
> 
> Dmiles is a new player his legs has caught up with his upper body now.


Let's just wait and see... because i think DMiles » E. Curry!


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you saying i wasn't really abducted to a space ship by twelve Carmen Electra's clones who conducted severall weird experiences with my body?


LOL, no. Of course not. I would never disagree with a fantasy...errr.... I mean factual story like that! Hope you had fun, guess you forgot to send post cards!!!

So what you're really saying is that Carmen Electra is an Alien? Guess that explains the attraction between her and the Worm!


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Cav's starting five puzzles me...*



> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> Let's just wait and see... because i think DMiles » E. Curry!


Childish man. Not a real classy move there.:angel:


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## SaintSynn (Aug 5, 2003)

If Miles can do good he will stay in the line up. He has to work on his J. But if he does too bad, then Coach Silas will have no problem of putting him on the bench and will start Ira Newble.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SaintSynn</b>!
> If Miles can do good he will stay in the line up. He has to work on his J. But if he does too bad, then Coach Silas will have no problem of putting him on the bench and will start Ira Newble.


He has been working on his jay since May 1st where have you been?

Wagner is not starting period. Ricky Davis is not going to play the Three.


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

I missed the part where what he said wasn't classy. You wanna fill me in BEEWILL? I'm struggling to understand half the posts you make.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>STING</b>!
> I missed the part where what he said wasn't classy. You wanna fill me in BEEWILL? I'm struggling to understand half the posts you make.


Sting... you don't understand BEEWILL's posts, but you DO understand the off beat crap I post???? Man.... I gotta work on my game some more.....:no:


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

BEESting> Beewill


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SaintSynn</b>!
> If Miles can do good he will stay in the line up. He has to work on his J. But if he does too bad, then Coach Silas will have no problem of putting him on the bench and will start Ira Newble.


I think if Miles doesn't show improvement and Dajuan is steadily gaining confidence he will be in the starting lineup in no time.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> I think if Miles doesn't show improvement and Dajuan is steadily gaining confidence he will be in the starting lineup in no time.


:no:


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEWILL</b>!
> :no:


Don't just post a smile and don't say ****. Back your argument up or don't respond at all.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> Don't just post a smile and don't say ****. Back your argument up or don't respond at all.


Are you telling me what to do?

I just don't agree with your statement. Wagner hasn't proved anything to be starting over Ollie or Newble. So if Miles position is in jeopardy those guys will be 2nd in line.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEWILL</b>!
> I just don't agree with your statement. Wagner hasn't proved anything to be starting over Ollie or Newble. So if Miles position is in jeopardy those guys will be 2nd in line.


Wagner has proved more than Ollie and Newble has in their careers. He has better stats in his rookie year than they have had any point in their careers. 

Ollie hasn't proved a dang thing but he got waaaay overpaid. He doesn't get himself involved into the game enough and if a PG is on him they can just double another man (happened alot in Seattle, Ray would get double teamed).

Newble definitely shouldn't get the nod, he can't do anything better than Dajuan Wagner. Nothing. He sure can't score like him. He can defend bigger players but we need a player who can guard the Braon Davis' on the floor, or the opposing PG's. Why should Newble get the nod? What has he done? You've proved my point. thanks.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> Wagner has proved more than Ollie and Newble has in their careers.


I stopped right their. Newble/Ollie can do alot of things on the court Wag doesn't even know about yet. His bench role won't be because of not having talent it will be coaches decision lil boy.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEWILL</b>!
> 
> 
> I stopped right their. Newble/Ollie can do alot of things on the court Wag doesn't even know about yet. His bench role won't be because of not having talent it will be coaches decision lil boy.


You are a complete joke and a waste of time. Neither of them shouldn't start over Dajuan Wagner because we are building for the future and Wagner has the ability to contribute more than them right now.

Would you like to share the things Newble/Ollie can do on the court that Wagner doesn't know, until then take yo *** to sleep and dream about Eddy Curry.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> You are a complete joke and a waste of time. Neither of them shouldn't start over Dajuan Wagner because we are building for the future and Wagner has the ability to contribute more than them right now.
> 
> Would you like to share the things Newble/Ollie can do on the court that Wagner doesn't know, until then take yo *** to sleep and dream about Eddy Curry.


Man go to bed you cavs fans no nothing about winning anyway.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEWILL</b>!
> 
> 
> Man go to bed you cavs fans no nothing about winning anyway.


You can't shed any light on any subjects at all:nonono: because you know nothing about basketball. Just face it. THAT"S REALITY. You know nothing. I'm crying for you dog.


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

Beewill.....I will let you two argue if you want but you sound stupid by saying Wagner wouldn't play over Ollie or Newble.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CavsTalk</b>!
> Beewill.....I will let you two argue if you want but you sound stupid by saying Wagner wouldn't play over Ollie or Newble.


I second that.
No argument was posted in favor of Ollie/Newble starting over Dajuan, and i don't even think there's an argument there in first place.
Although if DMiles don't pan out and Wagner gets the nod in the starting 5, that should mean Davis would have to play the 3 and the Cavs wouldn't have much fire power in the bench.


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

I'm confused.... Mongolmike... what? I'm totally lost, i shouldn't even be here... :uhoh: they're coming to get me...

Yeah, Dmiles has some of the greatest natural athleticism i've ever seen in a basketball player. This guy still has opportunity, he just needs to take it.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

:topic:Just wanted to stop in and give a big "welcome back" to the long-lost Sting.:yes:


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>STING</b>!
> I'm confused.... Mongolmike... what? I'm totally lost, i shouldn't even be here... uhoh: they're coming to get me...


lol.... oh oh, another alien abduction escapee!!!!

On a related note... I see BEEWILL got his self suspended....lol.... musta ticked off a mod.... they get very touchy at times!


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> 
> 
> lol.... oh oh, another alien abduction escapee!!!!
> ...


LOL... is this STILL going on???


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## Football Fanatic (Jun 8, 2003)

wagner should be a starter


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## ***Finch*** (Feb 17, 2003)

where's d wag in your lineup :whoknows:


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

people, if paul silas had half a mind he wouldnt bench dajuan
his sl shud be as followed

pg- dajuan
sg- ricky
sf- lebron
pf- miles
c- iggy

miles is a bad outside shooter i wud give him a try at pf this yr wat u think?


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>knicksfan</b>!
> people, if paul silas had half a mind he wouldnt bench dajuan
> his sl shud be as followed
> 
> ...


I think Paul Silas would know what to do once the season starts. If Dajuan is showing improvement and taking care of his body then put him in the line-up, if not then leave him out.

Miles shouldn't start at PF, especially over Boozer. I like it when he plays PF though because that's when we are pushing the ball and are successful as a team. But Boozer gets the nod at PF.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

then booze at pf and bench dmiles.


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>knicksfan</b>!
> people, if paul silas had half a mind he wouldnt bench dajuan
> his sl shud be as followed
> 
> ...


There is a reason why Wagner would be on the bench. Ricky is better. Lebron is better. He can't play PG.

It is a good idea for him to come off the bench and use him as a spark plug.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> 
> 
> lol.... oh oh, another alien abduction escapee!!!!
> ...


You know we don't work that way. He was banned because he deserved it, not because someone was in a bad mood.

<HR>

So what I see is:

1- LBJ, Ollie, Bremer
2- Davis, DaJuan
3- Miles, Newble
4- Boozer, Mihm
5- Z, Diop, Stewart

In the long run, I like Bremer quite a bit. I could see him eventually becoming the point if LeBron doesn't work out there. Or even if he does, maybe DaJuan or Bremer moves into that spot and Davis or Miles get traded. Too hard to say at this point, although the wide range of options (as evidenced by this debate) at least bodes well for the future.

The way I see it, if everyone plays well, they're set, and they look at trading someone for a better primary backup at the 4 or 5. I still think Marcus Fizer would be a great fit here. If someone, say Miles, doesn't play well, but DaJuan or Bremer does, then LBJ just slides to the three, you plug in DaJuan or JR at the 1 (at least in terms of size), and you keep going.


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

I think that theres a whole lotta over and underrating players here:

IMO the lineup for THIS year will look like this:

C: Z
PF: Booze
SF: Miles
SG: Davis
PG: Bremer (Bremer WILL start)
6th: Wagner
7th: James

Then when Silas realizes that Miles isnt Mashburn, Davis will move to the 3 and Wags will come in at the 2. Im guessing this might happen around mid-season, or if Silas realizes this soon (which cavs fans should hope for), it might happen before the season starts. But I doubt Miles won't be given another shot.


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

> I still think Marcus Fizer would be a great fit here


I agree, but I dont think any trades would happen because I'm not sure if any of the Cavs would fit in in Chicago, although it would be cool to see DMiles with Chandler and Curry.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SKLB54</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree, but I dont think any trades would happen because I'm not sure if any of the Cavs would fit in in Chicago, although it would be cool to see DMiles with Chandler and Curry.


Davis would fit in well 

* I think that's pretty unlikely. 

Miles would be nice if he could magically develop a three point shot.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SKLB54</b>!
> I think that theres a whole lotta over and underrating players here:
> 
> IMO the lineup for THIS year will look like this:
> ...


I don't have a crystal ball, or any special access to Silas's thoughts, but I do not agree with you SKLB54. First, even tho I'm glad we have Bremer, I think Ollie will get in before Bremer, and if Silas does go to a standard PG, it will be Ollie first.

2nd, there is no way that LeBron doesn't start. You really don't have an appreciation for the media and fan expectations around here for this kid. Unless he really stinks up the joint, and most don't realistically see that happening, LeBron starts, stays in the starting line-up basically ALL year. Heck, OTHER teams are almost guaranteed a sell-out when the Cavs visit just to see LbJ.... and you think he won't start?
Now he might start at any of 3 spots (PG, SG, SF)... but I got $100 (or more) that JR does NOT generally get into the game before LeBron. No way. I think Bremer will get into the game like 9th or 10th man or so....

Z
Boozer
Miles
Davis
LbJ

6th- Ollie (subbing for James to keep his minutes down)
7th- Mihm
8th- Newble
9th- Wagner (still needs to prove he is more than just a shooter)
10th- Diop
11th- Bremer
12th- Stewart/Kopono.. whoever isn't on IR

Wagner had his best chance last year to show he is a legitimate NBA starting SG. He didn't do it, for a number of legitimate reasons. Now, he is gonna have a hard time getting minutes. Ricky is better than Wags at SG, LbJ has got a free pass to show what he can do, and if Miles is improving as reported.... Wagner is odd man out. He is not a better PG than Ollie, nor probably even Bremer... so don't even say he's gonna be a back-up PG. He's not.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I think maybe you're underestimating Bremer a little. Dude started 40 games for a playoff team last year. If he's really the third PG, he's basically not gonna get any minutes.

If I were the Cavs, I'd be pretty wary of starting off LeBron at the point? Why put that added pressure on him? Why not just put Miles in the sixth man role and DaJuan further on the bench unless one of them really show they deserve PT? It just seems like things would run more smoothly with Ollie and Bremer running the show at first. While Ollie's not spectacular, he'll be able to get the team into the offense. Being on the court with smart, experienced players will help LBJ and hide his mistakes.

1-Ollie
2-Davis
3-LBJ
4-Boozer
5-Z

Then with the second team, you have a couple different ways you can go:

Small Lineup / Big Lineup
1- Bremer / Bremer
2- Wagner / Newble
3- Newble / Miles
4- Miles / Mihm
5- Mihm / Diop


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Some of the things you say, I don't disagree with, but again, you are overlooking 2 points. 

#1- Clev is NOT gonna be a playoff team, and can afford to work with LbJ's growing pains.

#2- LeBron is the biggest thing to hit Clev since the NFL gave Clev back an expansion football team. There are HUGE expectations for LeBron.... some legitimate, some unfair... but they are still there. The teams is selling season tickets off the hook... and there is no way that LeBron doesn't start.

I still think he will have limited minutes, 25 per game, for his rookie year. This leaves plenty of minutes for a back-up PG. Ollie is of course a vet, and will get the majority of these, and Bremer has to work for any minute he can get until he proves he is better than Ollie, or until LeBron proves he should NOT get major minutes.

Darius will also get first chance to prove that he is ready to contribute. If not, Ricky might go to the SF, and Wags to the SG, or LeBron might go to SF, with Ollie/Bremer splitting time at PG.

I think Wagner is the one who really has to worry about minutes. He is not a PG, and will not be a better PG than Ollie or Bremer. Ricky is gonna get 35+ at SG... and rightly so. Wagner will get the other 10-14 at SG, and he better prove something in that short amount of time, or he's trade bait... which is something I've been saying since last season.

I'm not "dissing" Bremer.... he just has an interesting problem ahead of him to get more minutes... an established and vanilla vet on the one hand, and the most hype player since Shaq or Ralph Sampson to come into the league on the other.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Not sure whether you were totally addressing me or me and SKLB54, but I definitely agree that LBJ will and should start.

My only issue is whether he should start at PG or SF. Point well taken that the Cavs can afford to let him make mistakes, but we know that the expectations game will also be working against him. If he starts at the point, things are going to be more difficult for him, and while the Cavs can afford to have him make mistakes, it will play unfavorably in the expectations game.

On the other hand, if he starts at SF, he can still be weened on the point by bringing the ball up and setting up the offense when he can, but he'll have the luxury of having Ollie on the court for when things are beyond him. Thus, he'll still get experience running the show, but he's got a safety net. Finally, consider what kind of expectations there are for him. Obvously they're huge, but by and large people will be very satisfied if he puts up good numbers. When he's on the floor with Ollie, then even at the points the Cavs need to let a more experienced player run the team, LBJ can still seemlessly be out there, on the court scoring and rebounding. In short, he needs to be allowed to make mistakes, but given the relative strengths of the Cavs at the point, there's no reason not to shift him to the 3 sometimes, which will lower the pressure on him and make it easier for him to "produce" up to expectations.


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## Sportarium (Sep 3, 2003)

James will start in my opinion, with Davis, Miles, Boozer, and then Z rounding out the starting 5. Miles looked good to me in the summer league, looked to be healthy, confident, and relaxed. I think playing with LeBron will help this entire team because if they run the floor and move around, they know they will get the ball. Miles did not have many chances to do that last year in my opinion. I am ready to give him a shot this year to prove himself. I think the Cavs will be one of the most exciting teams to watch this year, lots of athletic players that can run and finish strong.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Hi Sportarium. Welcome to BBB.net and to the Cavs forum! Your insights and support are always welcome! Go Cavs!


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## Sportarium (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> Hi Sportarium. Welcome to BBB.net and to the Cavs forum! Your insights and support are always welcome! Go Cavs!


Thanks, I want to bring lots to the table here and make this place even better (thats a scary thought)

I wil be posting everywhere, but since I am here in Cleveland I would like to be a mod for this board in the future, but first, its time to earn some stripes.

Mike


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sportarium</b>!
> 
> 
> but first, its time to earn some stripes.


If you got stripes, would that make you a striper?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sportarium</b>!
> James will start in my opinion, with Davis, Miles, Boozer, and then Z rounding out the starting 5. Miles looked good to me in the summer league, looked to be healthy, confident, and relaxed. I think playing with LeBron will help this entire team because if they run the floor and move around, they know they will get the ball. Miles did not have many chances to do that last year in my opinion. I am ready to give him a shot this year to prove himself. I think the Cavs will be one of the most exciting teams to watch this year, lots of athletic players that can run and finish strong.


I would agree with this line-up if for no other reason than the match-up problems it creates on the offensive end. The team will grow together on the defensive end. But there is no reason why Cleveland can't score 97-100 ppg this season. They should be in their fair share of shootouts with teams like Dallas, Memphis, SacTown, Chicago and Golden State.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Sure, the team could average 97-100 if all the pieces are working well.... but same as the last few years, it's our defense that is gonna lose us games. 

We have no defensive stopper-type starters. Miles was SUPPOSED to be a defensive stopper-type, but didn't show it last season. Z is average, Boozer is average (but works really hard), LeBron is gonna get toasted a lot on defense, Ricky plays defense best coming out of a time-out to defense a last second play, Wagner's defense is very poor, Mihm is a foul-a-minute defense, etc.

The only better defenders we have are allegedly, Newble, and generally Diop... but he isn't getting the benefit of the whistle either.

This team really needs a force on defense, a Ben Wallace/Ron Artest/younger Gary Payton type manning at least one starting position.... which was why I was hoping we'd sign Antonio Daniels at PG... he at least values his defense more than his offense.

In fact, other than Diop and Newble, the only other player who seems to have the mentality that defense is at least half the game, is Boozer... but he's not gonna be a block-meister.... more of a solid body-on-body deny you position defender.

We need a horse. A hit-man. An enforcer. We gots plenty of shooters. Until we get him, or develop a solid TEAM defense (like San Antonio recently, or Utah of a few years ago), we're not gonna rise to the top.


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## Sportarium (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> We need a horse. A hit-man. An enforcer. We gots plenty of shooters. Until we get him, or develop a solid TEAM defense (like San Antonio recently, or Utah of a few years ago), we're not gonna rise to the top.


Too bad we don't see many great team D's any more, much like how Seattle was with Payton, McKey, and McMillan leading the way. That team pressure/double the ball type D was amazing. I don't know if these guys have the "want" to do that though.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Yeah, there aren't a lot of players that "want" to play consistent, hard, in-the-face defense... we certainly don't have even one.

And I think pressuring the PG is a real big factor in setting the table for good team defense. If the PG cannot easily make the entry pass, it a) uses up more of the 24 second clock for the opponent, and b) makes the interior players have to work harder and longer to get open and into a position to get a feed. Also, if the opposing PG does not have an easy alley to make a pass, this allows the off the ball defensive players to cheat on the passes a bit and get a head start on steals.

And being athletic (and we do have a lot of athletes on this team), does not make you a good defender... in fact, unless the desire is there, great athletes probably aren't the best defenders because they are so used to just using their physical ability, and don't learn good defensive techniques and "cheats". Ron Artest, Ben Wallace, Gary Payton, older guys like Dennis Johnson... they aren't/weren't the elite athletes... but they are superb defenders.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

you guys need to trade wagner or miles. You have 6 guys with starting talent.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

not sure we "need" to trade anyone.... isn't depth a good thing? Players who can play multiple positions?

Besides, at least give Silas one year to see how all these parts fit together... most teams run an 8 or 9 man rotation. I think he will find minutes for both Wagner and Miles, even if one of them isn't a starter.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

As someone who hasn't really followed the Cavs since the golden days of Mark Price and Brad Daugherty, I really like this team's future. They have lots of different strong lineups, and, for a change, so much talent that some deserving players won't get the minutes they would have expected last year.

The composition could be better, and the team is sufficiently deep to be able to make trades to improve on that. 

In particular, I would be surprised if either Davis, Miles or Wagner isn't moved during the mid-season, for either a swingman defensive stopper (e.g., Artest, B. Bowen, or whomever) or a big banger. I expect to see the team try each of those guys in different lineups and at different positions, and then try to move the guy who fits the least well.

Also, I'd like to see an experimental backcourt of Wagner and James, with Wagner defending opposing point guards. Davis works well enough at SF, and to my mind Miles still needs to prove he deserves to be a consistent starter.

But all that said, it's a really promising roster. Center is the only spot where they really suffer if the starter goes down.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Just wandering... People state that Dajuan seems like the odd-man out in the rotation, because he will probably get limited action.
Now i can be wrong, but didn´t Wagner play a some point last season? 
I don´t remember seeing him actually play, and i dont know if his defense is honest, but can´t he eventually become a combo-guard, a la Microwave, subbing for both the PG and the SG?
He would certainly bring some offense off the bench, but could he/does he know how to set-up guys and orchestrate the offense?

If he does, he could be the 6th/7th man on the rotation, instead of riding pine all year...
Or am i wring about his play?


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

He did terrible at the point last year, so it is doubtful that they will try to play him there again. He just isn't a PG/.


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