# Next Pacers Roster Move??



## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

> Walsh indicated that the roster tweaking is far from finished, though he said the Pacers could go to training camp with the players they have today if necessary.


Rest of Article 

It's a pretty decent article about the backcourt for the Pacers. In it, Reggie Miller says he hopes that Donnie Walsh will make another solid move. Then it says Walsh is not done with the roster. 

So, what will be the next move? I read today Nick Van Exel is not happy in Golden State, could Van Exel be headed to Indiana??


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## dsakilla (Jun 15, 2003)

If you want Nick Van Exel, then you have to wait a couple months. A player can't be traded twice in less than sixty days, unless he is traded twice in the same day(like a three team deal)


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

I'd love to get NVE here in Indy but i doubt it'll happen. Pretty sure Walsh is done trading until next year. (He will still talk just nothing will happen)

Pacers Next Roster Move: Waive F Danny Ferry


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

I think we should sign Mark Jackson to the veterans minimum.


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## Muffin (Feb 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TLR</b>!
> I think we should sign Mark Jackson to the veterans minimum.


I agree. He can also help Tinsley improve in areas that concerns the team.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Muffin</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree. He can also help Tinsley improve in areas that concerns the team.


Jackson would be a great mentor for Tinsley because they play the same type of game.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> L.A. Clippers trades:
> PG Keyon Dooling (6.4 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 1.6 apg in 17.6 minutes)
> C Wang Zhizhi (4.4 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.1 minutes)
> SG Quentin Richardson (9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 23.2 minutes)
> ...


Posted this trade on another thread. Tinsley works instead of Brewer and Wilcox works instead of Wang.

Comments...


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

It looks like the moves to take place next are the signing of Jim Jackson...and...


> Pacers Next Roster Move: Waive F Danny Ferry


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Larry Bird wants a vet PG. He will insist that Croshere gets playing time to earn his contract also.

I think Kenny Anderson is the FA acquisition they need for solid floor leadership. That's what they need. Barring a trade that's as good as it gets.

Somebody has to go and Croshere's contract without the minutes played last year makes it impossible for him to be traded. Bender in my estimation is the odd man out and his upside esp. if traded to the Clips would reap dividends.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

When I saw this thread, the first guy I thought of was Mark Jackson. Barring a major change like bringing in Van Exel, he seems like a natural to bring in and tutor Tinsley.

Van Exel would seem like a good proposition, but I don't know what we have that GS would want in trade. We have lots of good players, but not really at positions they need. Right now, they look like this:

1- Van Exel / Claxton / A. Johnson / Sanchez
2- JRich / Pietrus / Cheney
3- Dunleavy 
4- Murphy / Robinson / Popeye
5- Dampier / Foyle /Eschmeyer

It loks like they could use another 3 behind Dunleavy, but Cliff Robinson or Jason Richardson could play there as well, and the real question would be whether you want to bring in one of the Pacer's guys to be a backup (or to put Dunleavy on the bench after making a trade to open up room for him). If they wanted someone from us, I'd think it would be Harrington, who could play both the 3 and the 4 as the put Uncle Cliffy out to pasture.

A trade of Harrington, Tinsley, and Danny Ferry would work under the CBA.

That'd give us:

1- Van Exel / Johnson
2- Reggie / F. Jones
3- Artest / Bender / J. Jones
4- O'Neal / Croshere
5- Pollard / Foster

While giving up Harrington is tough, I don't think he'd be that big of a loss compared to the massive upgrade we'd get by having Van Exel at the point. Harrington would reduce depth at the 3 and 4, but that'll put Bender and Croshere on the court. I think they'll play well and at least begin to start earning their money if they do that.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

What would it take to take Bender of your hands. Q and Ely are available


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Im The One</b>!
> What would it take to take Bender of your hands. Q and Ely are available


Give us Ely and a future pick.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Give us Ely and a future pick.


I'd do that in a second


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Im The One</b>!
> What would it take to take Bender of your hands. Q and Ely are available


So you would do the trade I proposed for Bender?

I'm not a fan of any particular team... Is there something wrong with Q or would you just readily give him up for Bender? Also, I used RealGM so the Deal I did works. However, there's no way to put in Picks and 'other considerations'. I'm glad to know that there is at least a Clipper fan who likes the idea of getting Bender.

I think BENDER will make something in the neighborhood of $5 mil a year (not sure). "Q" makes $1.8 mil next year and can become a FA for 04/05 if the Pacers don't want to make a Qualifying Offer to him, I guess. So INDY can keep him for one-year and let him go if they don't want him (??).

I wouldn't think Ely would be "available" but I'm sure the Pacers would take him. I just can't make him work in the deal on RealGM.
(He only makes $1.6 mil.)


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## mmmdk (Jul 16, 2002)

I don't know but...I got a feeling that Ron Artest is gone (in a trade) !

Peace, Mike


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mmmdk</b>!
> I don't know but...I got a feeling that Ron Artest is gone (in a trade) !
> 
> Peace, Mike


Why?? Because of his behavior??

I think they would be hard pressed to replace his Defense. If they can put him on "Stop Being Stupid" drugs, I'll take his D over Bender's talent any day.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Im The One</b>!
> What would it take to take Bender of your hands. Q and Ely are available


So you would take BENDER - for - 'Q', ELY and say two Second Rounders or one Conditional 1st Rounder??

That sounds do-able! If I'm Indy I do it!

Personally, I think 'Q' has the chance of being a solid NBA player and perhaps a Deadly 3pt Shooter. He's avg. 10.4 ppg; 4.0 rpg in 22.6 mpg in his brief career and playing a bench role in Indy behind Reggie and making a contribution like that would be great!

Ely would give them depth and youth in the post.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

PACERS LINE-UP:

PG ~ Kenny Anderson** / Jamaal Tinsley 
SG ~ Reggie Miller / 'Q' Richardson / Ron Artest 
SF ~ Ron Artest / Al Harrington / Austin Croshere
PF ~ Jermaine O'Neal / Al Harrington / 
....... Jeff Foster / Austin Croshere
C ~ Scott Pollard / Melvin Ely or Wang ZhiZhi


Indy signs Anderson from Danny Ferry's dropped contract.
- They draft a PG next year and trade Tinsley to Cleveland for Dujuan Wagner.

Pacers have plenty of talent but could use a player that can create their own shot. Wags can do that! If UCLA guard Bozeman gets in the Draft he has perfect size to put along side Wags.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

I would love to have Q, but from what I've heard he is quite the ballhog.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> 
> So you would do the trade I proposed for Bender?
> 
> ...




No, I Think Q will be a good player, but he has a attidude and theres no reson to keep him around. You could move artest to the 3 and Q would put up alot of points. Plus I like Bender's potential and he'll never see the light of day in Indy


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> 
> So you would take BENDER - for - 'Q', ELY and say two Second Rounders or one Conditional 1st Rounder??
> 
> ...


Ummm no. I would Do Q or Ely, and a conditional first rounder for Bender. Prefably Q


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## mmmdk (Jul 16, 2002)

Water on my mill...from Chicago-Sun Times August 29th 2003:

"Bird especially didn't like the way Ron Artest was allowed to play out of control,'' one insider said. "He felt Artest was permitted to play selfishly, holding the ball a lot but not holding his temper. Bird also did not agree with Thomas' continuing to start Reggie Miller. It's clear that Miller is no longer a daring and deadly shooter.''

So don't be surprised if Artest is traded. The loss of free-agent center Brad Miller might make Artest more expendable because their physical styles complemented one another. Bird and Carlisle prefer a more free-wheeling, finesse game in which wit is prized at least as much as grit.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/banks/cst-spt-banx29.html

I got more than a gut feeling, to back me up, that Artest is gone via trade. But I'd rather see Bender go too.

Peace, Mike


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Artest is pretty much untouchable. It would take a lot to pry him away from here. You win championships with players like Ron Artest.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TLR</b>!
> Artest is pretty much untouchable. It would take a lot to pry him away from here. You win championships with players like Ron Artest.


I agree. I think there is only 2 "untouchables" on the roster and thats Artest and O'Neal. We're building around those two. Carlisle will work with Artest and Artest will listen. But trust me, Artest will be a Pacer by opening day, by the playoffs and by opening day next year.


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## Ownerofpueblo (Aug 17, 2003)

Carlisle and Bird both love Austin Croshoe...I think they are talking about trading both Artest and Harrington to free up play time for chroshoe to earn his money...fine with me, send both to Pheonix! I read this on insider, so it's probably completely false, but a guy can hope...


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ownerofpueblo</b>!
> Carlisle and Bird both love Austin Croshoe...I think they are talking about trading both Artest and Harrington to free up play time for chroshoe to earn his money...fine with me, send both to Pheonix! I read this on insider, so it's probably completely false, but a guy can hope...


Uh I don't ever see that happening... It's a funny thing that people actually pay for ESPN insider. I wish I could get paid to make a bunch of crap up.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I'm starting to not like Bird's hiring after hearing about his.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

What I'm trying to figure out is what the Pacers would want back in a trade.

They're set at PF with O'Neal and Croshere. They could use a better center, but so could everyone.

At SF, they've got Bender. I'd be surprised if they traded BOTH Bender and Harrington, but I suppose they could. If they do, then they might like another SF back. If not, then one of these guys will play here too.

At SG, they've got Reggie and if they keep him, Artest. Given Reggie's durability, Artest looks to me like the guy to keep, because he can play the 2 and Harrington can't. Also, Artest is a BYC player and Harrington isn't, so Harrington is a lot easier to trade.

Finally, there's the PG slot, which obviously the Pacers need some help at.

Add all of this up, and it looks to me like the following:

1) Harrington, not Artest is the guy to go. Artest is a better player and better fits the Pacers needs (3/2 not 3/4), and will be much harder to trade, owing both to attitude and BYC factors.

2) What the Pacers would like to get is probably a PG first and formost, a good center if they could manage it (they can't), and then maybe a wing player who could make Artest expendable.

The most obvious trade I see out there is for Nick Van Exel. I don't know if he's a guy that Bird/Walsh would want, but he outwardly makes sense. And I could see Golden State taking back Tinsley (young PG), Harrington (3/4 to replace Jamison, but with better D), and Ferry (cap relief). In my mind, that'd be better for the warriors than having a sulky Van Exel, and it would create a pretty nice, balanced roster for the Pacers too:

1- Van Exel, Mark Jackson (FA)
2- Miller, (Artest), Jones
3- Artest, Bender
4- O'Neal, Croshere
5- Pollard, Foster


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Pretty good post mikedc, but I think it's better to look at our team's needs in terms of what roles we need players to fill than in terms of positions. Jermaine O'Neal is our scorer, rebounder, and inside banger, and we have guys like Pollard and Foster to help him out. Ron Artest is our one-on-one defender, and Jamaal Tinsley is the playmaker. What we DON'T have (since Reggie has declined) is a guy who can hit the outside shot, to take the pressure off O'Neal. I don't really see what kind of weapons we have to hurt teams if they double-team O'Neal. Tinsley is actually pretty good as a pass-first point guard, but his shot sucks.

I like the trade you mentioned, but I think we'd be better off trading Harrington and filler (Ferry definitely, Jones and Brezec if necessary) for a shooting guard who can shoot as well as Van Exel. I like a lineup of

Tinsley / Johnson / Free agent
Mystery SG via trade / Reggie
Artest / Bender
O'Neal / Croshere
Pollard / Foster

much better than a lineup of

Van Exel / Johnson / Free agent
Reggie / Artest / Jones
Artest / Bender
O'Neal / Croshere
Pollard / Foster

because frankly Reggie is too old to handle the kind of minutes that you want to give him.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> because frankly Reggie is too old to handle the kind of minutes that you want to give him.


Yeah but Van Exel would be starting, so he would be getting more points that Tinsley, and that would make up for Reggie's lack of production. Plus you throw in the mystery guard at it may turn out better.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I agree that Reggie is a concern, and honestly I don't where to go to get one. People always say that's an easy to fill position, but the only good SGs that are available are either bad shooters (Stephen Jackson) or horribly overpriced (Eddie Jones or Allan Houston).

Bonzi Wells seemingly would be available, but as I think you mentioned, he's BYC. He's also a B****. It'd be fun to get him and Danny Ferry together again though 

Maybe Harrington to the Bucks for Michael Redd or Des Mason? They're pretty stacked with forwards though, with Tim Thomas at the 3 and all kinds of guys at the 4.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> Maybe Harrington to the Bucks for Michael Redd or Des Mason? They're pretty stacked with forwards though, with Tim Thomas at the 3 and all kinds of guys at the 4.


I would like it if Desmond Mason had some talent other than driving and dunking. Redd is a good part of the trade, he could be our future SG.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I'd do Ford and Redd for Harrington, Croshere. Maybe if thats too lopsided we could through in Fred Jones.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> I'd do Ford and Redd for Harrington, Croshere. Maybe if thats too lopsided we could through in Fred Jones.


Croshere won't be traded. Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird won't trade him so maybe we could throw in Freddie (make the bucks even more of a driving and dunking team) Brezec and Anthony Johnson. I'd do that. I'm a huge bliever/fan of TJ FORD.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Croshere won't be traded. Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird won't trade him so maybe we could throw in Freddie (make the bucks even more of a driving and dunking team) Brezec and Anthony Johnson. I'd do that. I'm a huge bliever/fan of TJ FORD.


I'd do that but I doubt the Bucks would. They wouldn't even trade Croshere to get a good PG?


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

*..... Ahhh... Salary Match???*



> Originally posted by <b>Im The One</b>!
> 
> 
> Ummm no. I would Do Q or Ely, and a conditional first rounder for Bender. Prefably Q


Go back to page 1...

I posted the salaries of the players involved and actually tried to make the deal work by-the-numbers... An unspecified condidtional 1st Rounder and 'Q' won't match Bender's salary.

By conditional are you saying Top 3 protected?? Or Lottery Protected?? Either way INDY is being short changed salary-wise. Dunleavy was the #3 Pick in Ely/Wilcox Draft Class and makes only $3.3 mil this season. 

BENDER = $5.7 mil 
---------- ____
'Q' Rich. = $1.8 mil

Ahh... That's virtually $4 million dollars to make up, justifying an unconditional, unprotected 1st Rounder.... And actually, that's Yao Ming kind of money. He only made $3.9 mil last year as the #1 Pick and is set to make a little over $4.1 mil this season.

Anyway... 
Thanks for clarifying, though you never really answered my question if you would do the deal I proposed.


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