# BIG DOG traded to the Hawks



## HAWK23

Glenn Robinson is finally out of George Karl's doghouse. In fact, Big Dog is out of Milwaukee after the Bucks traded Robinson to Atlanta for Toni Kukoc, Leon Smith and one of the Hawks' first-round picks next season. Robinson and Karl did not see eye to eye, especially last season when the Bucks failed to make the playoffs.

go to espn.com then click NBA for the link


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## Hawkeye Pierce

bout time they got rid of him, finally thomas can get his minutes, and kukoc will be good fof the bench.


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## BBallFan

Good trade for both teams. It lets Milwaukee actually give Tim Thomas the chance to justify his contract, and it lets them have a first rounder next year (because their pick is going to Denver).

Atlanta now has the offensive talent to shoot it out with anyone, adding the Big Dog to Abdur-Rahim and Terry. If Ratliff is healthy, Atlanta can definately be a good team.


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## hunterb14

Both teams helped themselves here. Atlanta now has a good point,3,4.


Thomas actually gets to start now.


Thank you George Karl


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## SikHandlez24

*Hawks...*

This trade really improves them. They get another scorer and fill a whole at the SF spot. They don't have to give up that much to get him either. Hawks, if they can stay healthy, will make the playoffs.

C-Theo Ratliff
PF-Shareef Abdur-Rahim
SF-Glenn Robinson
SG-DerMarr Johnson
PG-Jason Terry


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## Sir I Gotta Go

They will be a good offensive team but that doesn't look good on defense.

PG:Jason Terry(Undersized, not a great defender)

SGermarr Johnson(developing but is still weak and has no D)

SF:Glenn Robinson(Everybody knows about his D)

PF:Shareef(A little undersized for PF)

C: Theo(Great Defender, but only a matter of time before he is on the IR)

C: Nazr Mohammed( Not that great of D, really strong, needs to be more physical, plays a finesse game, not too long before he is starting)


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## HAWK23

I really like the move for Atlanta... now all they need is a better SG.. but if Dermarr can pull through it's a solid deal


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## grizzoistight

*leon smith..*

Is not a bad player.. hes like 6'11 and can do a descent job out there on the floor.. if hes not dressed up like an idian.. but hell prob get cut, cuz the bucks already have pryzbilla gadzuric and haislipp


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## Sir I Gotta Go

He will fight Jamal Sampson for a roster spot and whoever gets cut will get signed by a bottom dweller like Denver or Cleveland.


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## sundevilPAT

*Re: leon smith..*



> Originally posted by *grizzoistight *
> Is not a bad player.. hes like 6'11 and can do a descent job out there on the floor.. if hes not dressed up like an idian.. but hell prob get cut, cuz the bucks already have pryzbilla gadzuric and haislipp


I have a feeling that Leon is one of those guys that just won't make a huge difference, not that I wouldn't like to see him redeem himself and become a really good player.


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## TheRifleman

I think this trade is one of mutual benefit to both teams! Toni will be great for the Bucks off of the bench and Tim will be starting.
Atlanta just got someone who can shoot straight and they needed that - badly!


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## robyg1974

This is an incredibly bad trade for Milwaukee. I mean, you guys understand that they'd been trying to trade Robinson for Latrell Sprewell a few weeks ago, right? And they settled for TONI KUKOC?

You guys also need to understand that Toni Kukoc DOES NOT PLAY ANYMORE. The Bucks didn't make this move so they could get Kukoc--they did it so they could dump Robinson's contract. Robinson has three years left on his deal, while Kukoc only has two. Amount of money left on Kukoc's contract: $18.4 mil (two years). Amount of money left on The Big Dog's contract: $32.6 mil (three years). This is a salary dump here, people. And, of course, NOW Tim Thomas can show the world what he is capable of when given 30+ minutes/game (prediction: NOT MUCH).

In any event, this trade also means that the Bucks are essentially throwing in the towel for next season. Say what you want about Glenn Robinson, he was a big player for the Bucks, he averaged over 20 points/game LAST SEASON! And Tim Thomas AIN'T gonna step up!

AS FOR THE HAWKS: A team that was already having big enough payroll problems just made their financial situation EVEN WORSE. At LEAST they should be a better team next season. In FACT, they MIGHT even be as good as the BUCKS next season--but they're STILL not good enough to challenge for a playoff spot. Here are my adjusted 2002-03 Eastern Conference standings:

1 Nets
2 Hornets (finally, a homecourt advantage)
3 Pistons
4 76ers (nice offseason tinkering to upgrade team defense)
5 Magic (assuming that Keon Clark signs sometime soon)
6 Pacers
7 Wizards (assuming MJ stays healthy)
8 Celtics (the Vinny Baker trade will be a disaster)
---
9 Heat (will make the playoffs if MJ goes down again)
10 Raptors (major payroll problems)
11 Bucks
12 Hawks
13 Bulls
14 Knicks
15 Cavs

The Hawks still have some pretty major problems:

1) They have a tiny starting backcourt (assuming Dickau is the PG and Terry is the SG--Terry AIN'T a PG!)
2) They play terrible team defense largely because...
3) ... Theo Ratliff cannot stay healthy
4) Shareef Abdur-Rahim is not a guy you should build yr team around, he's a good player, but not a GREAT player
5) Their payroll is HUUUUUGE, over $50 mil, which is acceptable for a playoff team, but NOT for a lottery team

And BACK TO THE BUCKS--take a look at their starting lineup:

PG Sam Cassell
SG Ray Allen
SF Tim Thomas
PF Anthony Mason
C Joel Pryzbilla

That is ALMOST CERTAINLY the worst starting frontcourt in the NBA right there, people! But at LEAST they get rid of Robinson's contract, and at LEAST they get the Pacers' first-round pick (which SHOULD be around #16-#18 overall) out of the deal. But this is NOT a good basketball trade--this trade does NOT make the Bucks a better team, make no mistake! 99% of the time, when players don't like the head coach, in ANY sport, the COACH is the one who has to hit the road, NOT THE PLAYERS! I think it's pretty obvious that George Karl has worn out his welcome in Milwaukee, too bad Milwaukee ownership/management don't think so!


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## HAWK23

> Originally posted by *robyg1974 *
> This is an incredibly bad trade for Milwaukee. I mean, you guys understand that they'd been trying to trade Robinson for Latrell Sprewell a few weeks ago, right? And they settled for TONI KUKOC?
> 
> You guys also need to understand that Toni Kukoc DOES NOT PLAY ANYMORE. The Bucks didn't make this move so they could get Kukoc--they did it so they could dump Robinson's contract. Robinson has three years left on his deal, while Kukoc only has two. Amount of money left on Kukoc's contract: $18.4 mil (two years). Amount of money left on The Big Dog's contract: $32.6 mil (three years). This is a salary dump here, people. And, of course, NOW Tim Thomas can show the world what he is capable of when given 30+ minutes/game (prediction: NOT MUCH).
> 
> In any event, this trade also means that the Bucks are essentially throwing in the towel for next season. Say what you want about Glenn Robinson, he was a big player for the Bucks, he averaged over 20 points/game LAST SEASON! And Tim Thomas AIN'T gonna step up!
> 
> AS FOR THE HAWKS: A team that was already having big enough payroll problems just made their financial situation EVEN WORSE. At LEAST they should be a better team next season. In FACT, they MIGHT even be as good as the BUCKS next season--but they're STILL not good enough to challenge for a playoff spot. Here are my adjusted 2002-03 Eastern Conference standings:
> 
> 1 Nets
> 2 Hornets (finally, a homecourt advantage)
> 3 Pistons
> 4 76ers (nice offseason tinkering to upgrade team defense)
> 5 Magic (assuming that Keon Clark signs sometime soon)
> 6 Pacers
> 7 Wizards (assuming MJ stays healthy)
> 8 Celtics (the Vinny Baker trade will be a disaster)
> ---
> 9 Heat (will make the playoffs if MJ goes down again)
> 10 Raptors (major payroll problems)
> 11 Bucks
> 12 Hawks
> 13 Bulls
> 14 Knicks
> 15 Cavs
> 
> The Hawks still have some pretty major problems:
> 
> 1) They have a tiny starting backcourt (assuming Dickau is the PG and Terry is the SG--Terry AIN'T a PG!)
> 2) They play terrible team defense largely because...
> 3) ... Theo Ratliff cannot stay healthy
> 4) Shareef Abdur-Rahim is not a guy you should build yr team around, he's a good player, but not a GREAT player
> 5) Their payroll is HUUUUUGE, over $50 mil, which is acceptable for a playoff team, but NOT for a lottery team
> 
> And BACK TO THE BUCKS--take a look at their starting lineup:
> 
> PG Sam Cassell
> SG Ray Allen
> SF Tim Thomas
> PF Anthony Mason
> C Joel Pryzbilla
> 
> That is ALMOST CERTAINLY the worst starting frontcourt in the NBA right there, people! But at LEAST they get rid of Robinson's contract, and at LEAST they get the Pacers' first-round pick (which SHOULD be around #16-#18 overall) out of the deal. But this is NOT a good basketball trade--this trade does NOT make the Bucks a better team, make no mistake! 99% of the time, when players don't like the head coach, in ANY sport, the COACH is the one who has to hit the road, NOT THE PLAYERS! I think it's pretty obvious that George Karl has worn out his welcome in Milwaukee, too bad Milwaukee ownership/management don't think so!


you can win in the east with that kind of frontcourt though...


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## BCH

Haislip's summer league play probably had something to do with the expendability of Robinson to the point they can justify a salary dump.


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## Sir I Gotta Go

See the thing is things don't happen just because you think they will happen. Just because you don't think they won't challenge for a playoff spot doesn't mean they won't. Just because your standings say so doesn't mean a damn thing.

Jason Terry played like an allstar PG when he was given the chance. After AllStar break they handed him the reigns and he did wonderfully. Everybody else was hurt but he was 20 and 8 a night. they got Dickau because they needed someone to be a backup PG because they had no backup.

Dermarr Johnson was starting at Sg the second half of the season and showed improvement. The one thing he has in his favor is size. He is 6-9 or 6-10. If he plays well they will challenge for a playoff spot this year.

But, like I said their problem is defense. And also they have been losing some of their coaches like that guy from the Pistons fom the Bad Boy team I can't remeber his name right now.


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## HORNETSFAN

That is an unbelievable steal for the Hawks. Kukoc has nothing left. Robinson is always an offensive threat. You are correct, robyg, this is clearly a salary dump. Wow!


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## Bighead734

> This is an incredibly bad trade for Milwaukee. I mean, you guys understand that they'd been trying to trade Robinson for Latrell Sprewell a few weeks ago, right? And they settled for TONI KUKOC?
> 
> You guys also need to understand that Toni Kukoc DOES NOT PLAY ANYMORE. The Bucks didn't make this move so they could get Kukoc--they did it so they could dump Robinson's contract. Robinson has three years left on his deal, while Kukoc only has two. Amount of money left on Kukoc's contract: $18.4 mil (two years). Amount of money left on The Big Dog's contract: $32.6 mil (three years). This is a salary dump here, people. And, of course, NOW Tim Thomas can show the world what he is capable of when given 30+ minutes/game (prediction: NOT MUCH).
> 
> In any event, this trade also means that the Bucks are essentially throwing in the towel for next season. Say what you want about Glenn Robinson, he was a big player for the Bucks, he averaged over 20 points/game LAST SEASON! And Tim Thomas AIN'T gonna step up!
> 
> AS FOR THE HAWKS: A team that was already having big enough payroll problems just made their financial situation EVEN WORSE. At LEAST they should be a better team next season. In FACT, they MIGHT even be as good as the BUCKS next season--but they're STILL not good enough to challenge for a playoff spot. Here are my adjusted 2002-03 Eastern Conference standings:
> 
> 1 Nets
> 2 Hornets (finally, a homecourt advantage)
> 3 Pistons
> 4 76ers (nice offseason tinkering to upgrade team defense)
> 5 Magic (assuming that Keon Clark signs sometime soon)
> 6 Pacers
> 7 Wizards (assuming MJ stays healthy)
> 8 Celtics (the Vinny Baker trade will be a disaster)
> ---
> 9 Heat (will make the playoffs if MJ goes down again)
> 10 Raptors (major payroll problems)
> 11 Bucks
> 12 Hawks
> 13 Bulls
> 14 Knicks
> 15 Cavs
> 
> The Hawks still have some pretty major problems:
> 
> 1) They have a tiny starting backcourt (assuming Dickau is the PG and Terry is the SG--Terry AIN'T a PG!)
> 2) They play terrible team defense largely because...
> 3) ... Theo Ratliff cannot stay healthy
> 4) Shareef Abdur-Rahim is not a guy you should build yr team around, he's a good player, but not a GREAT player
> 5) Their payroll is HUUUUUGE, over $50 mil, which is acceptable for a playoff team, but NOT for a lottery team
> 
> And BACK TO THE BUCKS--take a look at their starting lineup:
> 
> PG Sam Cassell
> SG Ray Allen
> SF Tim Thomas
> PF Anthony Mason
> C Joel Pryzbilla
> 
> That is ALMOST CERTAINLY the worst starting frontcourt in the NBA right there, people! But at LEAST they get rid of Robinson's contract, and at LEAST they get the Pacers' first-round pick (which SHOULD be around #16-#18 overall) out of the deal. But this is NOT a good basketball trade--this trade does NOT make the Bucks a better team, make no mistake! 99% of the time, when players don't like the head coach, in ANY sport, the COACH is the one who has to hit the road, NOT THE PLAYERS! I think it's pretty obvious that George Karl has worn out his welcome in Milwaukee, too bad Milwaukee ownership/management don't think so!


You're judging the Hawks without them even playing a game. They will be better. They're a great offensive team now. They should be a terrible defensive team. I think they should be a 6-10 team in the East.


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## BBallFan

Another thing that people haven't mentioned.

Getting rid of Big Dog makes it more likely that they'll bring back Michael Redd, because now he'll play a much more important role with the team (the new #1 scoring option off of the bench now)


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## robyg1974

> Originally posted by *BCH *
> Haislip's summer league play probably had something to do with the expendability of Robinson to the point they can justify a salary dump.


I'm sure that the Bucks are happy that Haislip has played well in the summer leagues and all, but he won't touch the floor next year--that is, not until it's pretty obvious that the team won't be making the playoffs! Haislip is behind SEVERAL players on the depth chart for PT. I have ranked the Bucks players below according to anticipated 2002-03 minutes/game:

1 Anthony Mason (38 minutes/game at PF)
2 Ray Allen (36 minutes/game at SG)
3 Sam Cassell (36 minutes/game at PG)
4 Tim Thomas (32 minutes/game at SF)
5 Michael Redd (12 minutes/game at SG, 16 minutes/game at SF)
6 Ervin Johnson (20 minutes/game at C)
7 Joel Pryzbilla (18 minutes/game at C)
8 Ronald Murray (12 minutes/game at PG)
9 Jason Caffey (10 minutes/game at PF)
10 Dan Gadzuric (10 minutes/game at C)
11 Marcus Haislip (no PT)
12 ?

Now OBVIOUSLY, Haislip will get to play a LITTLE--but only when other dudes are missing time due to injury. And, I must say, none of these top ten dudes are injury-prone players, so the Bucks SHOULD enjoy a relatively injury-free (but lottery-bound) season!

Caffey gets minutes because he is still under contract for three more years (for a ridiculous total of $17.1 mil). AND because he's a better player (at THIS point, anyway) than Haislip. AND because it won't be OBVIOUS that the Bucks AREN'T going to make the playoffs until late February or so.

No, I think the Bucks dumped Robinson's salary because they feel that Tim Thomas (from 27 minutes/game last year to 32 minutes/game in 2002-03) and Michael Redd (from 21 minutes/game last year to 28 minutes/game in 2002-03) can handle the increase in minutes, AND, of course, to SAVE MONEY and to MIX THINGS UP chemistry-wise and to MAKE TIM THOMAS START EARNING HIS DAMN MONEY! I don't think it has anything to do with Haislip. Although Haislip looks like he might be a pretty decent player for the Bucks in a few years, no doubt, huh?


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## HAWK23

> Originally posted by *robyg1974 *
> 
> 
> I'm sure that the Bucks are happy that Haislip has played well in the summer leagues and all, but he won't touch the floor next year--that is, not until it's pretty obvious that the team won't be making the playoffs! Haislip is behind SEVERAL players on the depth chart for PT. I have ranked the Bucks players below according to anticipated 2002-03 minutes/game:
> 
> 1 Anthony Mason (38 minutes/game at PF)
> 2 Ray Allen (36 minutes/game at SG)
> 3 Sam Cassell (36 minutes/game at PG)
> 4 Tim Thomas (32 minutes/game at SF)
> 5 Michael Redd (12 minutes/game at SG, 16 minutes/game at SF)
> 6 Ervin Johnson (20 minutes/game at C)
> 7 Joel Pryzbilla (18 minutes/game at C)
> 8 Ronald Murray (12 minutes/game at PG)
> 9 Jason Caffey (10 minutes/game at PF)
> 10 Dan Gadzuric (10 minutes/game at C)
> 11 Marcus Haislip (no PT)
> 12 ?
> 
> Now OBVIOUSLY, Haislip will get to play a LITTLE--but only when other dudes are missing time due to injury. And, I must say, none of these top ten dudes are injury-prone players, so the Bucks SHOULD enjoy a relatively injury-free (but lottery-bound) season!
> 
> Caffey gets minutes because he is still under contract for three more years (for a ridiculous total of $17.1 mil). AND because he's a better player (at THIS point, anyway) than Haislip. AND because it won't be OBVIOUS that the Bucks AREN'T going to make the playoffs until late February or so.
> 
> No, I think the Bucks dumped Robinson's salary because they feel that Tim Thomas (from 27 minutes/game last year to 32 minutes/game in 2002-03) and Michael Redd (from 21 minutes/game last year to 28 minutes/game in 2002-03) can handle the increase in minutes, AND, of course, to SAVE MONEY and to MIX THINGS UP chemistry-wise and to MAKE TIM THOMAS START EARNING HIS DAMN MONEY! I don't think it has anything to do with Haislip. Although Haislip looks like he might be a pretty decent player for the Bucks in a few years, no doubt, huh?


no, no, no I disagree with your list I put Haislip at #7 or #8 and push everyone down 1... I saw this guy in the summer league, he can hit it from down town too.. he is defintely better than Murray, Caffey and Gadzuric


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## Sir I Gotta Go

He is also better than Mason, just about everyone is.


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## Legitimate Beef

What the hell is Milwaukee thinking!? I guess it's finally Tim Thomas's time to shine.


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## BBallFan

They're probably thinking...

1) We can save money.
2) We can easily increase the roles of Tim Thomas and Michael Redd to cover up getting rid of Big Dog.
3) We can probably become a better defensive team. Big Dog is bad defensively... at least Tim Thomas is a good athlete, and can be a good defender (possibly)
4) We didn't have a first rounder next year; now we do.


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## Samir87

I have mixed feelings about this trade. Yes, I'm happy they finally have given Timmy T a chance to shine. Yes, I am happy they cleared some cap room. Yes, I'm happy they got a solid pick too.

But I think they could of gotten a lot more then that. Kukoc? Hes a perrenial underacheiver. Smith? A nobody. The Pick? Solid but not a great one. Comon. This trade was out of desperation. They needed to trade him. They needed to do something to satisfy the Bucks fans. But they reached too low. They could of went after Spree, or Deke, or even SHAREEF! Those are the kind of deals I, along with most of my fellow Bucks fans, would have liked. Man, This doesnt help the Bucks one tiny bit when it comes to as a team. It only makes it worse. I still think they will make the playoffs. They still have an awesome backcourt, in Sammy and Ray. Timmy T has skills. Redd and Kukoc will lead our bench. We have the team to make a run. But at a finals? I dont think so. It all depends on one person: Mason. It usually take a while for teams to learn to adjust to his style. Maybe a little longer for the Bucks. I just dont know. Maybe, just maybe, the Bucks, with the new-found cap room, will sign Keon Clark. That will make me happy, no doubt. He what the Bucks need, energy and size.

The Bucks has to choose between Karl or G-Rob. They chose Karl. I hope they dont regret it.

My 02-03 standings:

1. Boston
2. Detroit
3. NJ
4. Charlotte
5. Philly
6. Milwaukee
7. Magic
8. Pacers

9-15: Does it really matter?


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## BCH

*robyg1974*

I think Haislip will get more time next year than you think.

He has good touch outside but he also has an ability to score on the low post. The Bucks need someone that can fit in their offensive flow that can do this. Anthony Mason can't fill this roll for them, and I think Haislip could steal some of his minutes. Haislip will not make the Bucks a worse defensive team but he can definitely add some cohesion with a low post scoring threat.


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## Fordy74

Mason and Micheal Redd if resigned will be the biggest beneficiaries of this trade. Mason never got the ball last year and still put up decent numbers. Now he will get some touches in the post and maybe draw some double teams that will free up Ray-Ray and Redd. The Bucks did this move with the future in mind They have basically tanked this season for the benefit of the future. My Knicks just climbed the charts on the rankings of the teams in the East. The Knicks ar enow a better basketball team than the Bucks right now.


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## Hotlantadude198

We have nearly 4 allstars....anybody that puts us below
8th...well you will have to see.Roby is wrong about Dermarr
and Terry.

We were 19-17 the second half without Ratliff/Big Dog
and I think a 13th rank in the east is absurd....but people
will not be able to play dumb about the team much longer.

If we don't make the play-offs we are a bust.We are a
hellva lot more talented than Washington is.

Whitney
Hamliton
Jefferies
Brown-Gota do ALOT LOT better
Hayood

Jordan-if plays


doesn't compare to 3 and near 4 allstars.Sorry charile.

But we are unproven.I think Roby needs to watch the
Hawks alot more.I dislike when people speak when they
are mis-informed.


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## Hotlantadude198

Terry is not a terrible team defense either.In the first
half he had to give alot of help team because Dion
Glover was starting at SF and he didn't defend.But
in the second half when Newble started at SG and
Terry at PG Terry done alot better.

I looked through a 10 game part of the second half
to were over those 10 games Terry held the PG to
34fg% and I will figure it up again if you want me
to do it.hell,to get a good idea I might figure up the
whole second half of the season to get a gauge of
the improvement.For alot of thje first half JT was
a victim of help defense.

Oh and btw,Shareef is a poor defender at the 3 but
a average defender at the 4.Height is not a issue as
Martin is only 6'9 himself and I think Brian Grant is
about the same height.


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## Hotlantadude198

Starting PG's shot 35% againest Jason Terry from
March 2-end of the season.IF you don't believe me
you can add up the stats your self.That's pretty
damn impressive in my book.

We gave up 101PPG with JT at SG the first half and
around 96PPG with him at PG the second half.He is
by no means a terrible defender at PG.


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## Hotlantadude198

In that spand 4 starters hit 50% of their shots.

He held Baron Davis to 2-15 one game and Jason
Kidd like 3-15 in another game.

His defense at PG is not bad

http://www.nba.com/games/20020326/NJNATL/boxscore.html?nav=page

http://www.nba.com/games/20020406/CHAATL/boxscore.html?nav=page

(5 points in 43 minutes)

http://www.nba.com/games/20020331/SACATL/boxscore.html?nav=page

Mike Bibby 3-15 in 28 minutes 7 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20020305/ATLCLE/boxscore.html?nav=page

Miller 6-14 37 mins 13 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20020302/CLEATL/boxscore.html?nav=page

Miller:3-15 12 points in 43 minutes

That's his work againest some of the NBA's best PG's.The guys that
are so much better than him at PG.

The only PG that got him really was good was Marbury.


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