# Raef LaFrentz



## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

While I know he's not going to be an important long-term addition to virtually _any_ at this point, I'm puzzled by the reaction he seems to be receiving here. Folks are bemoaning the swap with Theo for a variety of reasons and he's getting mentioned in virtually every suggested trade as if he were a known team cancer or some such. I'm thinking the Blazers brought him over because they actually _want_ him. It's not like he's a total stiff -- he's a big man with range (who shot nearly 40% for 3 last season), and might provide some useful leadership. He's also in much better health than Theo (or Joel). Sure he's over paid but if Allen's decided he's again ready to spend money, that's okay with me.


----------



## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

While the important part oof the trade with BOS was the #7 I do think Raef has the potential to contribute to this team. He has some nice skills which could payoff is utilized correctly IMO.


----------



## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

PorterIn2004 said:


> While I know he's not going to be an important long-term addition to virtually _any_ at this point, I'm puzzled by the reaction he seems to be receiving here. Folks are bemoaning the swap with Theo for a variety of reasons and he's getting mentioned in virtually every suggested trade as if he were a known team cancer or some such. I'm thinking the Blazers brought him over because they actually _want_ him. It's not like he's a total stiff -- he's a big man with range (who shot nearly 40% for 3 last season), and might provide some useful leadership. He's also in much better health than Theo (or Joel). Sure he's over paid but if Allen's decided he's again ready to spend money, that's okay with me.


I don't have a problem with the Boston trade. My least favorite part of it was aquiring Raef, but that's amost entirely due to his contract. He's servicable, and he'll give you an offensive lift probably 20 times a year where he drops double figures. But the more I think about it, Theo just seems to be getting more and more brittle. Maybe if the Blazers are in contention, he doesn't sit out game after game with ankle tendonitis - I don't know. But it sure got old watching teams just kill us on the boards last year and Theo on the bench. Raef seems more likely to stay healthy - I just hope that extra year on his contract doesn't come back to haunt us.


----------



## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

kaydow said:


> I just hope that extra year on his contract doesn't come back to haunt us.


I don't see how it would, given that this team is gonna be up against the cap for as far as the eye can see.


----------



## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

He has 3 years left on probably the worst contract in the NBA, and his production is steadily declining. We would have to pay another team to take him off our hands. It's no wonder every trade proposed by a boston fan over the last few years has included LaFrentz.


----------



## For Three! Rip City! (Nov 11, 2003)

Well now granted Raef is not our savior but he will be a nice contributer. I don't think his contract is the "worst" in the NBA. If you really want to feel better take a look at the contract Starbury has with New York or Kmart with Denver.

That's a sure fire way to feel like Lafrentz is a bargain! Two worst contracts and a beer oughta cure ya. Call us in the morning and see how you're feeling then. :biggrin:


----------



## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

For Three! Rip City! said:


> Well now granted Raef is not our savior but he will be a nice contributer. I don't think his contract is the "worst" in the NBA. If you really want to feel better take a look at the contract Starbury has with New York or Kmart with Denver.
> 
> That's a sure fire way to feel like Lafrentz is a bargain! Two worst contracts and a beer oughta cure ya. Call us in the morning and see how you're feeling then. :biggrin:


Poppycock!

Those 2, while I'm not a fan of either, are bona fide NBA talents.

Raef is a big guy who can hit 3's at an average percentage.

He has no other skill and is a cowardly player.

Nash's biggest strength was that he resisted every trade offer that included Raef's ridiculous contract and above all, his presence in Portland.


----------



## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

MARIS61 said:


> He has no other skill and is a cowardly player.


If Raef is the cowardly lion, then I guess Miles is the Tin Man, and Travis is the scarecrow. 
I nominate Martell for the role of Dorothy, and Dixon as Toto. Paul Allen is the Wizard
of Oz. Bonzi was the wicked witch of the East, Sheed the wicked witch of the West, and 
Nate is Glinda the Good.

barfo


----------



## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Who cares how bad his contract is. We won't be under the cap for the foreseeable future and I don't have to pay him his salary. 

He can make shots, he plays average defense, he rebounds a little bit. Sounds okay to me. 

What's the problem?


----------



## Gunner (Sep 16, 2005)

barfo said:


> If Raef is the cowardly lion, then I guess Miles is the Tin Man, and Travis is the scarecrow.
> I nominate Martell for the role of Dorothy, and Dixon as Toto. Paul Allen is the Wizard
> of Oz. Bonzi was the wicked witch of the East, Sheed the wicked witch of the West, and
> Nate is Glinda the Good.
> ...


Now if the Wiz could just give Miles a brain and Travis a(some) heart,that'd solve some problems.


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

barfo said:


> If Raef is the cowardly lion, then I guess Miles is the Tin Man, and Travis is the scarecrow.
> I nominate Martell for the role of Dorothy, and Dixon as Toto. Paul Allen is the Wizard
> of Oz. Bonzi was the wicked witch of the East, Sheed the wicked witch of the West, and
> Nate is Glinda the Good.
> ...


 I'm guessing they traded the munchkin to Boston


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Gunner said:


> Now if the Wiz could just give Miles a brain and Travis a(some) heart,that'd solve some problems.


Strike that . . . reverse it. :biggrin:


----------



## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

I would guess the Kansas connection would add some appeal to Raef for K. Pritchard. Maybe.


----------



## For Three! Rip City! (Nov 11, 2003)

Uh Starbury and Kmart are bonafied NBA talents? Lafrentz is cowardly? Am I even watching the same league? Kmart was once a great talent now he's a heavily overpaid head case. Starbury has always been overrated and if I'm not mistaken I believe NY will be paying him around 20 mill at the peak of his contract?

I know Lafrentz has had some injury problems and does most of his offensive damage from the outside but to say he's cowardly?

Maybe this thread truly is from the land of Oz. Now let's see how did that go, "there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home"...note the clicking together of my Air Jordans.

I'm deeply disappointed that no one mentioned Toto by the way.


----------



## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

For Three! Rip City! said:


> I'm deeply disappointed that one one mentioned Toto by the way.


Attention Barfo, you've been renicknamed "one one." 

Now, back to our previously scheduled debates....

I'm with you, "For Three" -- LaFrentz seems like a fine addition. In fact, while I've yet to check it out myself, I believe someone's mentioned that he's a better rebounder, for average, than either Joel or Theo. Of course at least with Theo that's really not saying a lot. And, it may be that LaFrentz has spent more time on teams in the role of main rebounder, where, at least recently, Theo and Joel have been sharing such duties with a reasonably good rebounder in Zach.

I dunno, in the end, I'm excited to see what LaFrentz may be able to bring to the team, regardless of whether or not Zach's still around.


----------



## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

PorterIn2004 said:


> Attention Barfo, you've been renicknamed "one one."


[Monty Python]I've had worse...[/Python]

Too bad Damon isn't still around to be Toto, though.

barfo


----------



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

a nods as good as a wink to a blind bat, eh?


----------



## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

About the time I decided trading Telfair for the no. 7 pick (to draft Gay or Foye or Roy) was a good decision (it took me a while -- I didn't want to lose Telfair), along came the news that we were also trading Theo and taking back Raef. 

While I couldn't have cared less about trading Theo - OK, actually it was a relief after his pathetic "leadership" last year -- the news we were taking back Raef was like a cold bucket of water on my enthusiasm.

Then I realized that my initial reaction was due mostly to the disparity between his contract and his value. At the same time, Theo was completely value-less last year. For similar money.

So, back to what I was originally going to respond to: Raef will definitely contribute to this team next year. More than Theo did last year, that's for certain. How could he not? He won't be making 3 or 4 spectacular blocks in a single game, but he'll score, and pass, and rebound. And most likely, he'll actually play in the games.

He's actually a pretty good fit for the team, at this stage in it's evolution, IMO. And who knows? He might even provide some veteran leadership.


----------



## For Three! Rip City! (Nov 11, 2003)

PorterIn2004 said:


> Attention Barfo, you've been renicknamed "one one."


Hey! Someone mistyped a quote of my post! :biggrin: :angel:


----------



## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

There was a time when I would of loved Raef (14ppg, 7rpg, 3bpg, 43% 3PT in 2000-2001) but it's been years since he was productive. He could hardly get it done on a team with a lack of big men in the eastern conference. Now, all he's going to do is jack up 3's and take playing time away from Aldridge. 

Now, if Joel walks and/or Zbo is traded, then it's a different story. Either way, it's a downgrade. But downgrade or not, all that matters for now is that the kids get PT.


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

This is what I've decided. The Blazer draft their future PF. A player that likes to face up to the basket. Raef although vastly overpaid would probably be a decent guy to learn from in this area. Zach likes to face up as well, but I can't imagine the Blazers wanting their prize draft pick to learn how to stop the offense in a single bound.


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Raef will be better than Theo has been, but he's terribly overpaid, but so was Theo, but Raef's got an extra year on his deal, but the Blazers will almost certainly be over the cap that year anyways.

I don't think that getting Raef is that big of a deal one way or the other, and I've been a bit surprised at the negative reaction. *shtug*

Ed O.


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Ed O said:


> Raef will be better than Theo has been, but he's terribly overpaid, but so was Theo, but Raef's got an extra year on his deal, but the Blazers will almost certainly be over the cap that year anyways.
> 
> I don't think that getting Raef is that big of a deal one way or the other, and I've been a bit surprised at the negative reaction. *shtug*
> 
> Ed O.


 Agree. It is not like Raef is a known trouble maker or bad team guy. I'm guessing that Raef/Theo was a necessary part of the deal involving Telfair and the 7 pick. 

I'm just glad PA is still being aggressive, opening up the wallet and willing to take on bad contracts to get players the management deems valuable. If I'm a potential new owner I don't like it, but as a fan I don't see how it hurts.


----------



## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

I think Raef is without a doubt closer to being worth his salary than Theo is.

I also think that the trading of Theo (along with Telfair) continues an interesting trend of trading players who have been complainers or bad characters. Remember Theo's big thing about not working out and the doubts as to whether he truly could not play (I think Nate weighed in on this.)?

Telfair complained in the media about how he was used.

I don't know Raef's character- I couldn't find any complaints about this on google, at least, but his presence on this team, I think, is a positive because he'll give us someone we can use at the 4 and the 5 who can stretch the defense- perhaps after a Brandon Roy drive?


----------



## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

Ed O said:


> Raef will be better than Theo has been, but he's terribly overpaid, but so was Theo, but Raef's got an extra year on his deal, but the Blazers will almost certainly be over the cap that year anyways.
> 
> I don't think that getting Raef is that big of a deal one way or the other, and I've been a bit surprised at the negative reaction. Ed O.


I don't agree with this. Theo was injured, and even toward the end of the year, he showed flashes of his old form. If he heals over the summer, I'm betting he'll be a very nice shotblocker again for Boston. That's a big if though. I don't even know if Raef will be as good as Theo was when he was injured. It's such a weird thing to see Raef's blocks go down every year like they have. He averaged 3 a game once, now it's less than one. One would think he's on almost at the bottom of a fall from grace. 

But, who knows. Maybe (another) change of scenery will do him good.

However, I forsee him jacking up 3's and taking PT away from Aldridge.




Ed O said:


> *shtug*
> Ed O.



lol shtug.


edit: now that I look at his stats, Raef (on offense) will be better or as good as Theo (healthy.) Raef played 4 more minutes than Theo and averaged 8 ppg and 5rpg. Theo was at 5 and 5. However, Theo had 1 more block and 1 more Offensive Rebounds than Raef.


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> I think Raef is without a doubt closer to being worth his salary than Theo is.
> 
> I also think that the trading of Theo (along with Telfair) continues an interesting trend of trading players who have been complainers or bad characters. Remember Theo's big thing about not working out and the doubts as to whether he truly could not play (I think Nate weighed in on this.)?
> 
> ...


 Good point about Theo. He and Nate had clashes (really injuried) and wasn't there some incident at practice where Theo blew up.

I don't think Telfair was moved for complaining though. I think he was moved because Boston needed a PG and Telfair had the highest trade value. But who knows . .


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

TradeShareefNow said:


> I don't agree with this. Theo was injured, and even toward the end of the year, he showed flashes of his old form. If he heals over the summer, I'm betting he'll be a very nice shotblocker again for Boston. That's a big if though. I don't even know if Raef will be as good as Theo was when he was injured. It's such a weird thing to see Raef's blocks go down every year like they have. He averaged 3 a game once, now it's less than one. One would think he's on almost at the bottom of a fall from grace.


I'm not very concerned about blocked shots. I'm concerned about having a player capable of playing minutes so Ha doesn't have to. Raef has played over 1200 more minutes the past two years than Theo, and at three years younger the odds of him playing significantly more than Theo over the next two are extremely high.

Ed O.


----------



## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

Ed O said:


> I'm not very concerned about blocked shots. I'm concerned about having a player capable of playing minutes so Ha doesn't have to. Raef has played over 1200 more minutes the past two years than Theo, and at three years younger the odds of him playing significantly more than Theo over the next two are extremely high.
> 
> Ed O.



Does this mean you've given up on Ha? Or do you think he needs more garbage time to develope? I'd like to see him play more minutes to really see if he can contribute at all in the future.

Also, Raef still takes minutes away from Aldridge. Although, it's not yet determined if that's acceptable or not.


----------



## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

TradeShareefNow said:


> Also, Raef still takes minutes away from Aldridge. Although, it's not yet determined if that's acceptable or not.


I can't see it being too much of a problem. Aldridge clearly needs to put on weight and that's hard to do when playing serious minutes throughout an NBA season. He's also going to be getting plenty of PT in practice guarding at least Raef and probably Zach -- two very different challenges. And even if most of his time ends up being against Skinner or Ha, that's still pretty good competition. And, if he plays well enough in practice, Nate'll send him in. Nate's not a big fan of rookies and Webster still got increasing PT as the year went along and while he was potentially closer to his eventual size than Aldridge is now, Aldridge _did_ have two years of college ball and _was_ the second overall pick in the draft -- unless something's really wrong (like an injury or something) he'll get minutes this year.


----------



## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

barfo said:


> [Monty Python]I've had worse...[/Python]
> 
> Too bad Damon isn't still around to be Toto, though.
> 
> barfo


How 'bout just the franchise as a whole? We _are_ sort of the dog of the NBA....


----------



## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

TradeShareefNow said:


> Does this mean you've given up on Ha? Or do you think he needs more garbage time to develope? I'd like to see him play more minutes to really see if he can contribute at all in the future.
> 
> Also, Raef still takes minutes away from Aldridge. Although, it's not yet determined if that's acceptable or not.


Speaking for myself, can't give up on something you never pinned your hopes on. No offense to the fans of Ha, but he was very longshot prospect when we brought him in, and he still is.


----------



## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

What's the best we can really expect from Ha? He just doesn't seem that talented or that smart. He's seven and a half feet tall, practically, but will he ever even approach Shawn Bradley level of production? Can Ha still play in the D league, or has he been a pro for too long? Can we send him to Spain, or something? I just think he needs some seasoning, but not while the Blazers are trying to establish something. 

As for LaFrentz, the biggest problem is his contract, but considering it allowed the Blazers to seal the deal for Brandon Roy, and it got rid of a guy who was eating up playing time that Joel Przybilla is better suited to taking, I don't have a problem with it.


----------



## 77 BLuStARz 77 (Jun 27, 2006)

I think lafrentz is a upgrade to portland......i know portland will be way better than last year, i dont think they will get 1st or 2nd b/c there too young.....but they will do good, probally playoff bound









agree/disagree?​


----------



## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Id rather have a top 5 pick and a top 15 pick then first round and out in the playoffs.We are one piece away from being a young team with a good core.We need a center.


----------



## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

77 BLuStARz 77 said:


> I think lafrentz is a upgrade to portland......i know portland will be way better than last year, i dont think they will get 1st or 2nd b/c there too young.....but they will do good, probally playoff bound
> 
> agree/disagree?​


I'd love to think that the Blazers are playoff-bound, but I disagree. La Frentz was a good pickup overall, I agree with you there, but he and the other newbies aren't going to turn the Blazers around any time soon. 

I think it's more likely that Portland will be one of the 2-3 worst teams in the league, once again. The Blazers did get better, and there are some other teams that may be staying the same or getting worse (the Seattle Sonics, possibly the Sacramento Kings if they lose Bonzi, for instance), but generally speaking, Portland is still a very young, inexperienced team in transition, that will struggle to score and defend. It'll be a long season, where we (as fans) will have to look very hard, and speak very charitably, of "building toward success."


----------



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I'm not sure about Ha. He is still very young and its gotta take a giant a little longer to get used to his body. He is very limber and super strong, and he has shown an ability to take punishment. 

However, he is not very coordinated, or so it seems. I don't think he will ever be the next Shaq, or even Ostertag, but he does have some potential and could become a decent backup with an outside chance (far outside) of becoming a real player in the league. 

We shall see.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

The Blazers got better, which will probably manifest itself in terms of more competitive games rather than significantly more wins.


----------



## gatorpops (Dec 17, 2004)

I think Nate will use Raef some what like he used Radmanovich in Seattle on offense. I actually think that Raef will be a fairly good addition. We do not have a big that can spread the floor with his ability to shoot threes. I think that we may very well have made a good trade by trading Theo for Raef. 

I am sorry to see Bassy go but it was a good trade none the less. 

Raef gives us a bigger rebounding body than Victor did. Many times Victor was just not tall enough or could not jump high enough. 

As far as taking Aldridge's minuets, I believe that it is crutial for Portland to win somewhere aroung 30-35 games this year to reinterest fan support. That will give enough wins to tantilize new interest in the team. If that takes playing vets more then thats what we need to do. 

gatorpops


----------



## BlazeTop (Jan 22, 2004)

I think the extremely important question on all our minds is...

Why is he going to wear 9 when his 45 is availiable?


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

77 BLuStARz 77 said:


> I think lafrentz is a upgrade to portland......i know portland will be way better than last year, i dont think they will get 1st or 2nd b/c there too young.....but they will do good, probally playoff bound
> 
> 
> 
> ...



U dont no wat ur talking about, the Blazers *WILL NOT* make the Playoffs, Yeah, they will be better most likely, but they probably wont come close to playoffs :curse:


----------



## Synchronicity (Jun 30, 2006)

I have a question about Raef LaFrentz's contract. It looks like next year he has a player option, just like Ruben Patterson had. Could the Blazers pay him (since Paul Allen is now spending money) to opt out of his contract next year and would his salary still be counted on the cap?


----------



## Blazer Maven (Sep 27, 2005)

BlazeTop said:


> I think the extremely important question on all our minds is...
> 
> Why is he going to wear 9 when his 45 is availiable?


45 is not available. It currently resides in the hallowed rafters of the Rose Garden.

#45---------------Geoff Petrie!!!!!


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Who gave Raef the contract he has now?


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

77 BLuStARz 77 said:


> I think lafrentz is a upgrade to portland......i know portland will be way better than last year, i dont think they will get 1st or 2nd b/c there too young.....but they will do good, probally playoff bound
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Kind words, but Portland is still a few years away from the playoffs.


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

BEER&BASKETBALL said:


> Who gave Raef the contract he has now?


He signed his current deal in the summer of '02, after he'd been traded as part of the Denver housecleaning to Dallas.

So it was Nelson/Cuban who signed him to the big contract.

Ed O.


----------



## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Its nice he is going to Vegas to see his teammates..

shows some class.. and good interest.. maybe he is a team player... :gopray:

that is good news to hear of him

his experience can help Joel and LeMarcus


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Ed O said:


> He signed his current deal in the summer of '02, after he'd been traded as part of the Denver housecleaning to Dallas.
> 
> So it was Nelson/Cuban who signed him to the big contract.
> 
> Ed O.


Thanks. Amazing that he'll be making double what Joel will.


----------



## Blazer Maven (Sep 27, 2005)

Public Defender said:


> I'd love to think that the Blazers are playoff-bound, but I disagree. La Frentz was a good pickup overall, I agree with you there, but he and the other newbies aren't going to turn the Blazers around any time soon.
> 
> I think it's more likely that Portland will be one of the 2-3 worst teams in the league, once again. The Blazers did get better, and there are some other teams that may be staying the same or getting worse (the Seattle Sonics, possibly the Sacramento Kings if they lose Bonzi, for instance), but generally speaking, Portland is still a very young, inexperienced team in transition, that will struggle to score and defend. It'll be a long season, where we (as fans) will have to look very hard, and speak very charitably, of "building toward success."


Come now...So many of the losses last year were from the inability to execute down the stretch, and the fact that Zach was on the floor with 2-3 guys who couldn't shoot. Also, the opposition consistenly attacked the Dixon/Blake/Telfair trio in the post. That does not happen in 06-07.

I like the Blazers options in the last 2 min with: Raef/Zach/Martell/Roy/Jack. 5 guys who can hit shots and convert from the line.

Last year, the opponent could foul Theo/Joel/Miles/Krhyapa in the last 2 min and just sit back and wait for the Blazers to implode. That does not happen this year.

The Blazers, if healthy, win 30-35 games this year and could smell the playoffs the next year.


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Blazer Maven said:


> Come now...So many of the losses last year were from the inability to execute down the stretch, and the fact that Zach was on the floor with 2-3 guys who couldn't shoot. Also, the opposition consistenly attacked the Dixon/Blake/Telfair trio in the post. That does not happen in 06-07.


You don't lose all the games by almost a double-digit average mark from "the inability to execute down the stretch".

The Blazers were ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE last year. Even if they're better this year, they might not win (m)any more games as they catch up to their competition.

Ed O.


----------



## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

Trader Bob said:


> Its nice he is going to Vegas to see his teammates..
> 
> shows some class.. and good interest.. maybe he is a team player... :gopray:
> 
> ...


 Where did you hear this, TB?


----------



## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Anima said:


> Where did you hear this, TB?


While I'm not TB, I can answer that.

http://fans.blazers.com/blogs/mike_barrett/

It's near the bottom of the blog.


----------



## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

Foulzilla said:


> While I'm not TB, I can answer that.
> 
> http://fans.blazers.com/blogs/mike_barrett/
> 
> It's near the bottom of the blog.


 Thanks.


----------



## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/sportsColumnists/view.bg?articleid=134808


----------

