# Thibs Has Been Fired



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/603956788568850432
Looks like they went ahead and did it without compensation.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

I think whichever team hires him next season will be happy the Bulls made this call.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Kind of relieved it's over and done with this soon. 

Looks like Mr. Insider Adrian Wojnarowski was wrong when he said “I think this thing stretches out. I think it’s going to be complicated.”

LOL...sorry, I really despise Woj's biased agendas.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

RollWithEm said:


> I think whichever team hires him next season will be happy the Bulls made this call.


Thibodeau is a good coach. He can be a GREAT coach for a few teams out there. Orlando would be perfect for him. His time here was clearly done, though. NBA coaches just simply have a shelf life. The days of a Jerry Sloan coaching 20 years at the same spot are over. The only exception are the coaches who play a dual-GM role like Popovich, and even those might only last so long (Doc Rivers for example is already getting alot of pressure).


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

yodurk said:


> The days of a Jerry Sloan coaching 20 years at the same spot are over.


When were "those days"? It's not like a ton of coaches had that much tenure when Sloan was in Utah, either. Even before that, coaches that coached the same team for over 12 years were always an anomaly. Sloan is an outlier.


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## taco_daddy (Jun 13, 2004)

Tom is a great coach. Elite? Only time will tell, but a great coach nonetheless. He however comes with many flaws. Who doesn't? No one. The question is can he overcome his flaws and become an even better coach? Apparently the Bulls organization doesn't believe so at the moment or at least not with this team.

I thank Tom for his work here. He's inspired us and taken us farther than we've ever gone in the post-Jordan era. It is time to go in a new direction though. Hopefully management starts making some better decisions going forward. The spotlight needs to increasingly be shined on GarPax and the heat needs to be turned up on them as well.

I hate that the end of the Thibodeau era comes on this note. I hope Tom will go on to succeed at what ever ventures he pursues in the future. Until then, it's Bulls 4 life!


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Who would you guys like to see become the next coach of the Bulls?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

As predictable as it was, I still hate it.


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## taco_daddy (Jun 13, 2004)

Marcus13 said:


> As predictable as it was, I still hate it.


I don't love it, but it is time to move on.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

RollWithEm said:


> Who would you guys like to see become the next coach of the Bulls?


Whoever it is, it almost surely will be a downgrade.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Well, we'll see how this goes. If you get the next great coach, all will be forgotten... but firing a guy with Thibodeau's resume sets you up for disappointment. This whole thing is softened by the fact that we've been anticipating it for so long, but I'm still a bit bewildered by the failure of Paxson/Forman/Thibodeau to make this work a little longer.

Does this mean our window to compete for a championship has closed for the time being? Is it closed even if Thibs sticks around? Was it ever really open? 

When are we going to start hearing some player reactions (maybe I've just missed them)? The players have been pretty quiet throughout this season, despite the issue hanging over their heads.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

BlakeJesus said:


> Whoever it is, it almost surely will be a downgrade.


You're probably right. Although... I think Jeff Van Gundy might be a small upgrade. Or I guess it's possible that I just love him as a commentator so much that I have forgotten some of his struggles as a coach.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Here's the press release from the Bulls: http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/tom-thibodeau-dismissed-bulls-head-coach




> Tom Thibodeau dismissed as Bulls head coach
> Posted: May 28, 2015
> 
> Facebook
> ...


Some shots fired by Reinsdorf there... probably unnecessary after the guy has been let go. What I took from the release was that it was not just Thibs' resistance to the front office's input (I'm presuming about minute limits) but his willingness to go public/leak information about the disagreement that rubbed the front office the wrong way.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

RollWithEm said:


> You're probably right. Although... I think Jeff Van Gundy might be a small upgrade. Or I guess it's possible that I just love him as a commentator so much that I have forgotten some of his struggles as a coach.


After airing out Bulls management on national TV (I assume at his friend Tom's behest), I would say there is a zero percent chance of Jeff Van Gundy being offered or accepting that job.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Those weren't flagrant shots by Forman. He's just dropping some real talk.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

That's just downright childish by the Bulls organization. Firing the guy got your point across, taking those extra shots on his way out the door was completely unnecessary.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

its sad really that grown men couldn't put aside their differences but oh well....thibs was a pretty good coach with some major flaws , his offense was for the most part boring and convoluted although effective enough, he clearly believes in an outdated model of players and their usage . on that matter i did agree with the front office although i dont believe it was their place to butt in on him on it any more than its their duty to call plays 

how a head coach chooses to utilize his players is at his discretion ...for better or worse because he is the guy in the trenches with them.

but he was a defensive genius who worked his tail off. he managed to be a players coach too. very demanding coaches who are also players coaches are very rare .

i really , really feel paxson and gar need to go with him they are avg. at best which is ok but they let their feelings and ego get in the way of their mediocre judgement and that is not ok .


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

RollWithEm said:


> I think whichever team hires him next season will be happy the Bulls made this call.


when teams are lining up to bid for his services it kind of makes you think, doesn't it?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

RollWithEm said:


> You're probably right. Although... I think Jeff Van Gundy might be a small upgrade. Or I guess it's possible that I just love him as a commentator so much that I have forgotten some of his struggles as a coach.


http://knicksfansdieyoung.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/alonzo-mourning-jeff-van-gundy.jpeg










here's an image of JVG struggling


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

e-monk said:


> when teams are lining up to bid for his services it kind of makes you think, doesn't it?


now how many teams do you figure would line up for paxson or forman if they were suddenly jobless?

my guess is not many if any at all.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I think Thibs worked some miracles with teams that had been undermanned by injury and they're definitely going to miss him


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Hopefully this opens Bulls fan's eyes to the people who are running this side show circus. If the front office wants its input in games to matter so badly, come down and coach the Flipping TEAM! Pax is a coward, the front office is a joke and people wonder why top talent avoids the Bulls like its the plague. 

Oh its the high taxes, the bad weather, the crime the.... Doesn't stop the Cubs, Blackhawks and Bears from doing their jobs.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

RollWithEm said:


> Those weren't flagrant shots by Forman. He's just dropping some real talk.


I should have said Reinsdorf (and have edited my post to reflect my idiocy). But yeah, there's some truth to what he's saying, no doubt about that... but did it have to be said?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Oh its the high taxes, the bad weather, the crime the.... Doesn't stop the Cubs, Blackhawks and Bears from doing their jobs.


I was with you until this. The Cubs and the Bears are better organizations than the Bulls? C'mon man...lol


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/604008426952347648


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Marcus13 said:


> I was with you until this. The Cubs and the Bears are better organizations than the Bulls? C'mon man...lol


I don't know if this is sarcasm, but yeah the Cubs and Bears are light years better than the Bulls right now. The 90's are gone. 

The Cubs are creating a mega franchise and the Bears as incompetent as they are, basically can sign anyone they want.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I don't know if this is sarcasm, but yeah the Cubs and Bears are light years better than the Bulls right now. The 90's are gone.
> 
> The Cubs are creating a mega franchise and the Bears as incompetent as they are, basically can sign anyone they want.


NFL free agency isn't quite comparable to NBA free agency. This would be a decent topic for an OT thread... the Cubs seem pointed in the right direction, but it is highly debatable what the best run franchise in town is (or rather, who is in second right now behind the Blackhawks). The Bulls have been in the playoffs more consistently than the Bears... who just ended the Phil Emery/Marc Trestman era, hard to give the organization a strong vote of confidence after that debacle. It is a pretty mixed bag all around... my White Sox included.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

RollWithEm said:


> When were "those days"? It's not like a ton of coaches had that much tenure when Sloan was in Utah, either. Even before that, coaches that coached the same team for over 12 years were always an anomaly. Sloan is an outlier.


LOL...really never. I am just saying you can't really point to a single example of a long tenured coach like Sloan these days. Popovich doesn't count since he is basically their GM as well.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dornado said:


> thebizkit69u said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if this is sarcasm, but yeah the Cubs and Bears are light years better than the Bulls right now. The 90's are gone.
> ...



I will agree about the Bears, they are very incompetent and while free agency is way different than the NBA, the Bears do seem to do whatever they want in terms of getting who they want, when they want. 

No doubt the Hawks are the best run team right now in terms of PR and success, but they do make a ton of questionable roster moves. 

The Bulls wish they were in the Cubs shoes right now.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

BlakeJesus said:


> Whoever it is, it almost surely will be a downgrade.


Downgrade compared to Thibodeau staying here? Thing people need to realize is this isn't just a front office vs. Thibodeau issue here. Thibodeau clearly was having some issues with his players too. Not all of them but certainly some, and perhaps even some of our key top flight players. I feel like that issue has been played down significantly in the media, in favor of the front office vs. Thibodeau discussion. Unless we go full Vinny Del ***** on the next hire (and Hoiberg is a good coach, certainly not a Del ***** level hire), I think the next Bulls coach easily out weighs the alternative of forcing Thibodeau to stick around another season or two in a toxic environment.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Hopefully this opens Bulls fan's eyes to the people who are running this side show circus. If the front office wants its input in games to matter so badly, come down and coach the Flipping TEAM! Pax is a coward, the front office is a joke and people wonder why top talent avoids the Bulls like its the plague.
> 
> Oh its the high taxes, the bad weather, the crime the.... Doesn't stop the Cubs, Blackhawks and Bears from doing their jobs.


Bears?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> No doubt the Hawks are the best run team right now in terms of PR and success, but they do make a ton of questionable roster moves.


Such as?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The Kimmo Timonen trade, and Antoine Vermette outside of a few great moments had been almost non existent this post season. They gave up alot for these 2 guys.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Does this mean our window to compete for a championship has closed for the time being? Is it closed even if Thibs sticks around? Was it ever really open?


Unless we hire someone unqualified, I don't think this impacts the Bulls' window. Look no further than what Steve Kerr has done with Golden State. Kerr had zero coaching experience 12 months ago. Thibodeau nearly took the Bulls to the Finals in his 1st season as a head coach.



> When are we going to start hearing some player reactions (maybe I've just missed them)? The players have been pretty quiet throughout this season, despite the issue hanging over their heads.


I am very curious about this as well.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

thebizkit69u said:


> No doubt the Hawks are the best run team right now in terms of PR and success, but they do make a ton of questionable roster moves.


RC Buford and Greg Popovich call shenanigans


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

e-monk said:


> when teams are lining up to bid for his services it kind of makes you think, doesn't it?


There is little evidence this is the case at the moment. We've heard Orlando is interested, and maybe New Orleans. Both are great fits. Orlando may end up choosing Skiles, though.

I think many teams are rightfully concerned about Thibodeau's flaws as a coach. Overplaying guys, pushing too hard in practice, lack of innovation on the offensive side of the ball, ability to get along with others. That said, I am 100% certain _some _teams are interested and he will get a job again, perhaps this summer. 

I am not going to want a guy though just because some other team wants him. That would be a silly decision making strategy. You hire a guy based on what your team's needs are.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Maybe we should hire Ron Adams who was apart of the Derrick Rose mvp season and the current Golden State run. ..... oh wait never mind, another successful coach the bulls fired because they could not get along with him.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Maybe we should hire Ron Adams who was apart of the Derrick Rose mvp season and the current Golden State run. ..... oh wait never mind, another successful coach the bulls fired because they could not get along with him.


Not the reason they fired him.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Nobody really knows why they fired him. Some say he did not respect the front office, some said he leaked info to the press, others say he fought with Gar. Either way, I think it's safe to say they did not like Adams.


Here is a bit from last year. 

"It's still a bit mystifying to me," Adams said. "And I don't understand it. And if the intent was to be hurtful to me and my family, it succeeded."
[?]
The Tribune reported in June that Forman took exception to Adams voicing displeasure over certain personnel moves. Adams confirmed this, saying he was told he "made a disparaging remark about the organization outside the walls of the Berto Center."


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Nobody really knows why they fired him. Some say he did not respect the front office, some said he leaked info to the press, others say he fought with Gar. Either way, I think it's safe to say they did not like Adams.
> 
> 
> Here is a bit from last year.
> ...


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...rman-tom-thibodeau-chicago-ron-adams/2480893/


> Adams rejoined the Bulls in 2010 after serving as an assistant with the Oklahoma City Thunder following a five-year run in Chicago from 2003 to 2008. The way this move came down was unusual because head coaches generally set their staff, yet it was the general manager pulling the plug in this case.
> *
> "Here's what I don't want to get into," Forman said. "We make tens if not hundreds of decisions every year. I don't think we want to evaluate every decision, who's on board. We communicate about every decision, and at the end of the day, I've got to make the decisions I feel are best for this organization moving forward. We'll unite and we'll move forward. Tom makes the decisions on the floor. He's our head coach. I think he's as good a coach as there is in the NBA. He does a great job.
> 
> "Do I agree with absolutely every decision he makes?" he continued. "We'll communicate, probably not. But at the end of the day, I'm going to support the decisions he makes and I think he's going to support decisions that I make.* As long as once they're made, we unite and move forward because the goal is to continue to get this team better and to compete for a championship."


essentially from this i get that the front office demands that you go along with their decisions because its not your place to judge their decisions but to work with the players they bring in .

everybody just does their job. but at the same time if you have a problem you handle it within the org.

butting in with things like minutes restrictions and leaking their version of the events to local press seem to be an overstepping of their bounds by even their protocols.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Interesting tweet from Dan Bernstein:

https://twitter.com/dan_bernstein



> #Bulls sources: at least three starters ripped Thibs in exit interview, said they'd avoid team facility this summer if he were still there.


I have suspected for a while there was tension with Thibs and players. But very little reported on it. The lid comes off now that Thibs is gone. This stuff is all related...front office gets involved because there are issues with Thibs being unreasonable with his players. Thibs gets mad because the front office is invading his turf. It's an ugly cycle once it starts.

I am 99% sure one of the guys referenced here is Noah, and suspect another is Jimmy Butler. Just my opinion. Noah has said stuff in the past like "I'd hate Thibs if we weren't winning"; jokingly I guess but maybe some truth to it. Jimmy Butler interestingly had a quote not long ago, I think about his MIP or all-star selection, where he gushed about how much Adrian Griffin helped him become who he is as a player; no mention of Thibs, though, which I thought was telling. 

Hard to say where Rose's relationship with Thibs stands at the moment.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

suggestion:
Hire someone like Steve Kerr with no coaching experience.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...rman-tom-thibodeau-chicago-ron-adams/2480893/
> 
> 
> essentially from this i get that the front office demands that you go along with their decisions because its not your place to judge their decisions but to work with the players they bring in .
> ...


This happens in every sport, in almost every organization. The Bulls history of reacting to what their coaches do or say are borderline maniacal. You don't fire one of the best assistant coaches in the game just because he disagreed with the questionable moves the front office made.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Interesting tweet from Dan Bernstein:
> 
> https://twitter.com/dan_bernstein
> 
> ...


I'm fairly certain one of the guys for sure is Gasol. I find it very hard to believe that Rose, Noah or Butler "Ripped" Thibs. The whole statement just screams overstatement, "At Least 3 starters" ?! Are they current starters or guys who started over the course of a season. Doug started, Snell started, I would not be surprised if they were the other 2 guys complaining.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Interesting tweet from Dan Bernstein:
> 
> https://twitter.com/dan_bernstein
> 
> ...


if i had to pick who had tension it wouldnt be rose it would be gasol, thibs has had rose's back since day 1 while gasol is a vet who probably bristles at thibs overt intensity ...he's a 14 yr. vet who probably has had enough of the grueling practices to last a lifetime.

add to that thibs habit of camping out at the berto waiting like a lonely dog for anyone to come in is probably grating after a while , i think of luol's story of how he realized thibs was different as endearing when he was at the gym when luol thought it was empty and put him through a draining workout , but sometimes people want their downtime or simply alone time to shoot around and be by themselves , thibs doesn't strike me as a give a guy space kind of guy. workaholics rarely are .


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Mike Wilbon had a report today as well which basically says much of the same things (can't find a link, but there are guys talking about it on realgm). 

I was going to say Gasol wouldn't likely be in that group because he hasn't been here that long, and tends to stick very PC with his answers.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> This happens in every sport, in almost every organization. The Bulls history of reacting to what their coaches do or say are borderline maniacal. You don't fire one of the best assistant coaches in the game just because he disagreed with the questionable moves the front office made.


it speaks to their mentality which i find hypocritical and overbearing.

which is why they find coaches who are borderline desperate for an opportunity.

established coaches dont tolerate this stuff.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Bulls philosophy in a nutshell. 

Profit, avoid luxury tax, do as we say, then win games.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Fuck off GarPax


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

If these reports are true (Wilbon, Bernstein) about what multiple Bulls players have opened up and said, there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides. 

You can bet this situation further ups the pressure on Gar at the very least, and perhaps Paxson (though probably less so given his role), to deliver on the Hoiberg hire and capitalizing on the next couple draft picks. If things start to crumble for the next 2-3 seasons, I could see someone like Gar getting ousted from the front office.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

yodurk said:


> Mike Wilbon had a report today as well which basically says much of the same things (can't find a link, but there are guys talking about it on realgm).
> 
> *I was going to say Gasol wouldn't likely be in that group because he hasn't been here that long, and tends to stick very PC with his answers*.


yeah, it doesn't seem like Pau has been around long enough to tire of Thib's act


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> There were two problems.
> 
> First: Defense didn’t win championships. Defense doesn’t win championships. If that were ever true, it’s not now. Defense is more like a prerequisite for any team that wants to really contend. Go back through the best teams over the past few years — the Warriors, Cavs, Heat, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics. Those teams were good on defense, and most were great. But anytime you get deep enough into the playoffs, everyone is at that level. What sets the best teams apart is offense. That’s the riddle Thibs could never solve. It’s why the Bulls lost to Miami in 2011, and it’s why they lost to Cleveland this year.
> 
> ...





> In any business, insecurity and cheap tendencies at the top trickle down to everyone. It spawns a working environment in which nobody feels appreciated and everyone looks expendable. That’s what made it so amazing to see Reinsdorf discuss culture in the press release yesterday. He may have a point in this case, but now that he mentions it, this has all played out exactly like the battles of the ’90s, just with completely different characters … except one. And while we’re here, his mighty organization still hasn’t won a title since Jordan left.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/blame-games-the-end-for-thibs-and-the-bulls/


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