# ESPN: Who's Hot? Aaron Gray - Chicago Bulls



## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

> WHO'S HOT: With Chicago Bulls head coach Scott Skiles watching from a seat on the baseline, 2007 second-round draft choice Aaron Gray -- the 7-foot center from Pitt -- put on quite an impressive display.
> 
> Gray finished with 17 points, seven rebounds, hit all five of his shots from the field and blocked two shots in Chicago's 85-79 win over Atlanta. He also delivered the pass of the game, dishing from the lane on give-and-go to driving guard Boo Davis for a thunderous dunk late in the fourth quarter.
> 
> Gray -- who spent Monday night watching undrafted Canadian National Team member Levon Kendall, his former Pitt teammate, play for the Jazz -- is averaging 11.5 points and 6.5 rebounds in two games.





> WHO'S NOT: Bulls swingman Thabo Sefolosha, a lottery pick last year, seems bored by this whole summer thing. Sefolosha shot just 1-of-6 from the field Tuesday, making him 2-for-14 in two Revue games.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=rockymountainday4&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Thabo is looking like more of a bust everyday. Btu what can you really expect from the 13th pick in the draft? Usually not too much quality there.

Like I said before, Aaron Gray is a starting caliber NBA center eventually. Rich man's Jason Collins. He is an absolute steal. People talk about the Bulls need for a low post, back to the basket scorer...well Aaron Gray gives us quite a bit of that. Keep working with him, keep getting him in better shape, and he will be a very effective player in a short while. We look like we might be set at PF/C for the future with Thomas, Noah, and Gray. Now Paxson just needs to find a big guard to play with Gordon/Hinrich, and we'll be set as a team. Maybe we can trade Thabo for Azuibuike.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Thabo has had a poor summer performance. Hopefully its just summer league.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

IT'S SUMMER LEAGUE............

Nice practice sessions, but I'm not annointing or abandoning based on any of this.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

theanimal23 said:


> Thabo has had a poor summer performance. Hopefully its just summer league.


I don't think so. I don't think Thabo is a legit rotation player in the NBA.

He doesn't have a jumpshot, or a handle. He is pretty useless on offense.

He hasn't been the worlds greatest defender. I know people will point to Kobe, Wade, and James for proof that Thabo can play defense. But in all reality, you can just look at those games, and see how by the 4th quarter, and they figured out Thabo's weaknesses (his slow feet) and his strength (long arms) they were easily able to abuse him. 

But like I said, he was the 13th pick in the draft. At that point its a crapshoot on whether a player turns out good or bad. Hopefully Thabo is Paxson's only bad first round pick.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> I don't think so. I don't think Thabo is a legit rotation player in the NBA.
> 
> He doesn't have a jumpshot, or a handle. He is pretty useless on offense.
> 
> ...


You sure you're watching the same player? This description is ridiculously inaccurate.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Firstly, I was given to understand Thabo has good handle and passing ability (I haven't seen much of him, but I noticed that too).

Secondly, I never understood why the Bulls went with a foreign player when Brewer was available.

Thirdly - it's summer league. Just look at Oden, Durant and other big names.
(or other nobodies lighting it up in previous years)


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> You sure you're watching the same player? This description is ridiculously inaccurate.


i haven't read a post of the author's that wasn't; even pimping ben gordon (who i'm a #1 supporter of....but come on.....):rocket: 

lastly, how much credence would one give to a believer in the potential of saer sene and NOT see nba skills in sefolosha.

on topic though, i think gray will surprise. though he's not gifted athlectically, you can't teach size. 4 years of college suggests he understands fundamental ball and how to use his size. if he turns out as good as brad miller, luc longley, or (turn back the clock) tom boerwinkle, he'll have a nice career.

sometimes guys fall through the cracks, it's not like it doesn't happen. i suppose though, gray, if he develops into a good player might he be considered "found money" as it were????


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

different_13 said:


> Firstly, I was given to understand Thabo has good handle and passing ability (I haven't seen much of him, but I noticed that too).
> 
> Secondly, I never understood why the Bulls went with a foreign player when Brewer was available.
> 
> ...


Durant has been playing well of late. I think his last 3 games are 32-29-28 points or something like that.

Jeff Green also has been averaging around 30 points lately I think too.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

Gray was of the best per minute rebounders this season in college basketball and rebounding supposedly translates well to the NBA.

He is kind of a stiff, if he wasn't he wouldn't have lasted till the 49th pick. However, he does have some skills and seems to utilize his big body well.

Though there's no use in getting excited about 2nd rounders. There's a good chance he won't be in the league two years from now.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Geez guys get a grip about Seph, it's SUMMER LEAGUE. Just a few weeks ago Thabo was scoring 15 plus.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Until Thabo develops a jump shot, he is best suited to playing the 3 on offense. At this point, he is much more a 3/1 than a 3/2, and his PG skills have not been all that inspiring. He is a nifty passer, but that's about all.

He can play the 3 or 2 on defense, which is why he won't be a mismatch replacing Gordon. Fortunately for us, he can play alongside Deng and still play the 3 in offensive sets as Deng can be the one to space the floor with his shooting even though he's not really a 2.

It can work, it just requires a lot of switching back and forth in terms of roles on offensive sets.


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## taurus515th (Oct 13, 2005)

We already know Sefolosha is not much of a shooter yet. He can be soon but y is everyone acting like Sefolosha is our #1 option for shooting. Paxson already has built this teams with guys that can shoot such as Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Curry (soon 2 be), Smith. We know Paxson drafted Sefolosha for defense. I believe we could use a tall SG with offense and defense for certain situations but we know Sefolosha can and will improve on offense one day but y is every1 acting like Sefolosha just had his breakout year last season or either not even giving him a chance by saying he was a 13 pick what do u expect etc?


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Mebarak said:


> Durant has been playing well of late. I think his last 3 games are 32-29-28 points or something like that.
> 
> Jeff Green also has been averaging around 30 points lately I think too.


Shooting below 40%, I believe.
Anyone can get 30 ppg in summer league if they take as many shots as he has been doing.
Notice the complete lack of rebounding and assists as well.

But then a Ben Gordon jockey would look only at ppg (sorry Bulls fans, don't take it personally, No "direct attacks" on anyone, please)

If Gray turns out 'as good' as Longley, he's a steal. Longley wasn't exactly unserviceable!
Don't see Brad Miller in him though.
Maybe more of a Rasho Nesterovic type..

I take Rhyder's view on Thabo - he can pass, but he hasn't proven he can run an NBA offense yet. And his lack of a jumpshot will hurt him - it's less noticable on the Bulls, with Duhon, Gordon, Hinrich, Nocioni and even Deng to space the floor.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

I think Thabo could be a starting quality SF, but as a SG/PG he's a bench player. 

He's already one of the better rebounding wingmen in the league, IMO. When he started at SF against Detroit late in the season (and played 40 minutes) I thought he did a better job guarding Tayshaun Prince than Deng or Nocioni ever did. 

Maybe it's not too late to trade him for Ronnie Brewer. Utah targeted Thabo a year ago at pick #14. Brewer was their consolation prize. It's not too far-fetched when you think about it. After all, Jerry West admitted it was mistake to take Drew Gooden #4 overall after just one year and swapped him for Mike Miller, who was taken one pick later at #5. Thabo went #13 and Brewer went one pick later. Just like Gooden/Miller.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Check out Shelden!!


> Meanwhile, Atlanta big man Shelden Williams --the No. 5 overall selection in the 2006 draft -- turned in another solid Revue performance. Williams had 20 points on 8-of-18 shooting against the Bulls. He is averaging 18.5 points in four summer games


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

The question you have to ask is would Thabo see playing time in Utah? I know Sloan doesn't generally like playing rookies/young players, but Thabo does have that european experience..
If Sloan wouldn't play him, I doubt the Jazz would trade for him.

If Thabo pans out as the Bulls want him to - with decent enough pg skills to be able to play 18+ minutes there a night - then I see keep Thabo. As Brewer is in every other way much like Thabo, with a better jumpshot but worse handle.

So this year will be the test imo, especially with all the Duhon trade rumours/fan requests.


edit: hawksfan, I read that in one (or possibly two) of your Hawks summer league threads..
Now, if you maybe say "He's clearly a better player than Gray could ever be, bet you wish you had Shelden" we could at least tell you to stfu. Now, we're merely left scratching our heads, pondering our misfortune to (clearly) piss off God in a previous life and be left with your excuse for a post.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Why the hate for Thabo?

We didn't draft the guy for his shooting or scoring. We drafted him because he's a very quick/very long defender, and he has some really solid court vision and ballhandling skill. In short, he makes for a pretty good supplemental player to Gordon and Hinrich.

He showed enough of these skills against REAL NBA PLAYERS the past season to convince me he'll be alright. I don't agree about the "he's not a SG" comments. Why? Because I just don't think a shooting guard has to be a scorer. There have been some darn fine 2-guards who weren't big scorers or shooters. 

Thabo is a role player. He might even be a backup for his entire career. But you know what, that's fine. Even though he was drafted in the lottery, we essentially used a mid-first rounder (#16) to get him. I think Pax did this because his skillset supplemented our current guards. As long as he excels with some things, which I think he will, he'll be a great asset off the bench for a number of years. That's fine with me since we already have our starting 5 for the foreseeable future.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

yodurk said:


> Why the hate for Thabo?
> 
> We didn't draft the guy for his shooting or scoring. We drafted him because he's a very quick/very long defender, and he has some really solid court vision and ballhandling skill. In short, he makes for a pretty good supplemental player to Gordon and Hinrich.
> 
> ...


Co-sign.

Sefolosha played well last summer league. He played well in spells in the actual NBA this year. He was named one of a handful of standout's at this year's Orlando summer league by ESPN. Why are we getting worked up over a couple of sub-par shooting performances in the Rocky Mountain Revue? Who cares?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

A guard who can't shoot won't play guard very much in the NBA.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

MikeDC said:


> A guard who can't shoot won't play guard very much in the NBA.


He's not Larry Bird, but I'm not buying the whole "can't shoot" thing. Thabo shot 36% from three point range last year, and 42% from the floor. At worst he's a much more exciting Trenton Hassell, and his ceiling is a whole lot higher. He's a lock to be a pretty good NBA rotation player, IMO.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

MikeDC said:


> A guard who can't shoot won't play guard very much in the NBA.


Wow, I really disagree. Don't get me wrong, it puts you at a big disadvantage, but there are plenty of poor shooting players at the guard position who seem to have fruitful NBA careers. Heck, I don't think Eric Snow has hit a jumper since 1998.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

All during the Orlando league certain posters were blasting Thabo. I want to just remind everyone that Thabo was named to the first team of that league.... one of the top five players the entire week.


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

MikeDC said:


> A guard who can't shoot won't play guard very much in the NBA.


He has a higher shooting percentage than Rasheed Wallace, Jamal Crawford, Gilbert Arenas, Jamal Tinsley, Jason Richardson, Mike Bibby, Jason Kidd, Larry Hughes, Rudy Gay, Stephon Marbury, Earl Boykins, Hedo Turkoglu, Raymond Felton.

I guess it's time for these players to hang it up too huh?


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

jnrjr79 said:


> Wow, I really disagree. Don't get me wrong, it puts you at a big disadvantage, but there are plenty of poor shooting players at the guard position who seem to have fruitful NBA careers. Heck, I don't think Eric Snow has hit a jumper since 1998.


Chris Duhon managed to play about 25 MPG as a rookie while shooting atrociously.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> A guard who can't shoot won't play guard very much in the NBA.


Not even as a backup? I can't really agree with that.

I just don't envision your prototypical NBA guard as having to be a prolific shooter (or even an average shooter for that matter). Aren't there plenty of guards who predicate their games on slashing and playing defense? Some of them are even much shorter than Thabo.

I certainly value shooting ability, don't get me wrong. But on this team, we have multiple players who take, and make, alot of 3-pointers. It's not something we really lack, IMO.

Btw, I totally forgot this thread is about Aaron Gray. Good job by the big guy.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

1. I'm a big Aaron Gray fan. Two years ago, I was a fan of trading down in the lottery and getting him with a low lottery pick. He was averaging a double-double for one of the best teams in the NCAA, and they counted on him for rebounding, defense and scoring. I do think he's an absolute steal, but I also think that he'll probably end up about as good as Todd MacCulloch: a functional, maybe even starting-level NBA center who was really more suited for the bench.

2. I'm a big Thabo fan. I think he will step into an Aaron McKie-like role as his shooting improves. I have a feeling he's got the Boris Diaw-syndrome: always looking to set up teammates and therefore hesitant about his shot. I remember the commentators always noting that Thabo needs to be more confident about taking the open shot. He'll need consistent minutes and something of a green light, especially in garbage time. But the guy will be just fine, I'm pretty sure. Summer league showings just don't really matter. I'd like to see him come out and be aggressive, but to be honest, this really isn't about him. We're really looking more at Gray and Curry to see whether or not they're going to make the team. I have a feeling Thabo needs a real offseason to relax a little. Is he playing in any international play this summer? That would be a bad idea.

Let's not forget, also, that a lot of players go through a sophomore slump.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Showtyme said:


> 1. I'm a big Aaron Gray fan. Two years ago, I was a fan of trading down in the lottery and getting him with a low lottery pick. He was averaging a double-double for one of the best teams in the NCAA, and they counted on him for rebounding, defense and scoring. I do think he's an absolute steal, but I also think that he'll probably end up about as good as Todd MacCulloch: a functional, maybe even starting-level NBA center who was really more suited for the bench.


The Bulls needed a Joel Przybilla like center to throw in against teams that overwhelm us on the boards with much taller centers -- not just to get rebounds, but primarily to take up space in the lane, not be backed down by giant opponents, and block out. It would be nice if the big guy could block shots and score a bit too. 

I hope they have found such a player in Gray. Noah and TT certainly are not up to the job of doing battle with mastodons. I don't expect the #49 pick to play the #1 pick straight up and win the matchup, but Gray is a sight better than Duhon, TT and even Noah in the center position against Oden. All we have to do is contain these monsters a bit, the rest of the team can take care of business otherwise.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

McBulls said:


> ....but Gray is a sight better than Duhon, TT and even Noah in the center position against Oden. All we have to do is contain these monsters a bit, the rest of the team can take care of business otherwise.


Say it ain't so! Wasn't it Skiles who said that Duhon was our best post defender?!


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Wynn said:


> Say it ain't so! Wasn't it Skiles who said that Duhon was our best post defender?!


The weirdest thing that I've seen the Bulls do in the last few years is have Duhon check Nowitski for extended minutes last year. What in the heck was Skiles thinking? Duhon is a good perimeter defender, but geez.


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## Cool007 (Jul 13, 2007)

I know we can look at summer league and say that "It's just summer league" but you can't deny that Thabo has been disappointing thus far in the summer league. This is not his first time and he has 1 year of NBA experience and practices under his belt. He should have showed something better.

I am not too concerned coz neither Carney nor Brewer are doing anything exciting too so we can't say we should have picked them. Thabo was drafted mainly coz he can play both guard positions and his defense is already average or above average compare to other SGs.

I think for Bulls' success, I hope he does improve and show a better touch in his shooting so he can get about 15mpg or so and can eat Duhon's minutes. It's too early but I hope he WAKES UP soon enough.


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## HINrichPolice (Jan 6, 2004)

SALO said:


> I think Thabo could be a starting quality SF, but as a SG/PG he's a bench player.
> 
> He's already one of the better rebounding wingmen in the league, IMO. When he started at SF against Detroit late in the season (and played 40 minutes) I thought he did a better job guarding Tayshaun Prince than Deng or Nocioni ever did.
> 
> Maybe it's not too late to trade him for Ronnie Brewer. Utah targeted Thabo a year ago at pick #14. Brewer was their consolation prize. It's not too far-fetched when you think about it. After all, Jerry West admitted it was mistake to take Drew Gooden #4 overall after just one year and swapped him for Mike Miller, who was taken one pick later at #5. Thabo went #13 and Brewer went one pick later. Just like Gooden/Miller.


Gooden/Miller were drafted in different years.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Cool007 said:


> I know we can look at summer league and say that "It's just summer league" but you can't deny that Thabo has been disappointing thus far in the summer league. This is not his first time and he has 1 year of NBA experience and practices under his belt. He should have showed something better.
> 
> I am not too concerned coz neither Carney nor Brewer are doing anything exciting too so we can't say we should have picked them. Thabo was drafted mainly coz he can play both guard positions and his defense is already average or above average compare to other SGs.
> 
> I think for Bulls' success, I hope he does improve and show a better touch in his shooting so he can get about 15mpg or so and can eat Duhon's minutes. It's too early but I hope he WAKES UP soon enough.


Thabo hasn't blown us away this summer, but he's still had some decent performances. The one summer league game I watched, he had like 21 pts I think. It was mightily impressive how well he filled the lane and finished. Frankly, I think his bad games have been nothing more than a small sample size mixed with lax playing conditions. For some guys, you have to up the stakes in order to get them to perform at a high level.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> A guard who can't shoot won't play guard very much in the NBA.


Yup. Especially not for the Bulls as currently constituted.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

HINrichPolice said:


> Gooden/Miller were drafted in different years.


Whoops! You're right.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Maybe he's just bored??

Regardless, he should be one of the better players in the summer league. He's too skilled not to be.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Maybe he's just bored??
> 
> Regardless, he should be one of the better players in the summer league. He's too skilled not to be.


I'll say again, he was named to the all Orlando Summer League first team. Not only should he be one of the better players, he is.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

" Summer League, are we talkin' summer league?" 

I saw enough of Thabo last season to know, he's going to be a fine basketball player and a good fit for this team. I assume the Bulls try to have some structure in the summer league but the way the team is constructed, there isn't any continuity. Real NBA action, it isn't. 

Personally I would rather have Sef at the Berto getting stronger and working on his jump shot than having his play judged by haters. Trade him ,he sucks in the summer league! Oh the shame. Is Lonnie Baxter on a summer league roster this season? Maybe we could do Thabo strait up for Lonnie? 

BTW the Gray kid might stick, he kind of reminds me of Todd McCullough before his feet went south on him.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Its summe league people.

Gray may stick with the team, but he won't be getting any mintues anytime soon. Whereas Thabo is going to continue to get his legs under him and improve as the season progresses.

Thabo may never be an all-star, but he will be an effective player off the bench that is a defensive specialist. The things that annoys me about the ESPN writers, is that they only look at the offensive aspect of a player. You read articles over and over again, its about how many points this person gets or doesn't get, and with that they conclude whether they played well or not. They always disregard the defensive aspect of the game, where Thabo has been playing well in. He may not be the quickiest player at his position, but he makes up for the lack few inches of foot speed with his arm length. He is great at sticking with his man like Hinrich, and he also doesn't get pump faked out too often. I think he has been playing quite well on the defensive end and people are making a big deal about whether he is a bust or not just because of his offense. 

But with that being said, you would have liked for him to have shown a little more improvement but at the same time its only been roughly a month since the season ended. Its the time from now untill the training camp is when players will make the biggest improvements and additions to their games. If your expecting him to suddenly to have Jordan offensive moves after a month your kidding yourself and have an unjustly expectations from a basketball player let alone from a human being.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

L.O.B said:


> " Summer League, are we talkin' summer league?"
> 
> I saw enough of Thabo last season to know, he's going to be a fine basketball player and a good fit for this team. I assume the Bulls try to have some structure in the summer league but the way the team is constructed, there isn't any continuity. Real NBA action, it isn't.
> 
> ...


What's the deal with signing second rounders?
When do you have to do it by? What are the restriction in length of contract? Paxson will probably give him a two year contract


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

darlets said:


> What's the deal with signing second rounders?
> When do you have to do it by? What are the restriction in length of contract? Paxson will probably give him a two year contract


I've already read somewhere that Gray will be getting a two year contract. Im not sure whats happening with Curry though.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

As part of "the promise" it was reported that Curry would get $400K guaranteed this year. No mention of whether or not a 2nd year is guaranteed or not.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

kulaz3000 said:


> I've already read somewhere that Gray will be getting a two year contract. Im not sure whats happening with Curry though.


I'm just curious though, not saying he will bust out, but if a second round pick turns into a stud how hard is it to retain them?


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

darlets said:


> I'm just curious though, not saying he will bust out, but if a second round pick turns into a stud how hard is it to retain them?


I think with the new contract situations, i think on a 2 year rookie contract you match offers. But im not 100% sure on that.

But the problem other teams that have had second rounders who have blossomed is that they usually only sign second rounders to one year contracts. Because how often do seconders really become great? 

So most often then not, teams usually only sign second rounderes to one year contracts, but i think Paxson from what i've read and heard is that he'll be signing him to a two year contract, which by my guess will allow him to match offers once Grays contract is up.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

kulaz3000 said:


> I think with the new contract situations, i think on a 2 year rookie contract you match offers. But im not 100% sure on that.
> 
> But the problem other teams that have had second rounders who have blossomed is that they usually only sign second rounders to one year contracts. Because how often do seconders really become great?
> 
> So most often then not, teams usually only sign second rounderes to one year contracts, but i think Paxson from what i've read and heard is that he'll be signing him to a two year contract, which by my guess will allow him to match offers once Grays contract is up.


I know it's not my money, but in N.B.A terms signing a 2nd rounder to a two year $800,000 contract would seem like a good way to cover yourself if they should early signs of being servicable. 

From memory we signed Duhon to two years, then matched someone elses offer when he came out of contract.


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## Fizer Fanatic (Jun 20, 2002)

Thabo seemed like an offensive enigma to me during the season and continues to do so during the summer league. The guy has had some very good games and some ho-hum games at both levels of play. Hopefully, he'll get more consistent in time.

I like Gray, and he's been consistent in the SL. Just hope some of it translates to the league.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Fizer Fanatic said:


> I like Gray, and he's been consistent in the SL. Just hope some of it translates to the league.


The two main things he brings are Size and Rebounding. He does have N.B.A size and all signs point to his rebounding/boxing out skill translating to the big league. But yeah, we have to wait and see.


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## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

kulaz3000 said:


> Its summe league people.
> 
> Gray may stick with the team, but he won't be getting any mintues anytime soon. Whereas Thabo is going to continue to get his legs under him and improve as the season progresses.
> 
> ...


:clap:

As for Aaron Gray, what a nice surprise! I am also pleased by the play of Curry (goodbye Duhon! :yay: ). Thabo doesn't have much arc on his shot. That is the source of his inconsistent shooting.


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> I don't think so. I don't think Thabo is a legit rotation player in the NBA.
> 
> He doesn't have a jumpshot, or a handle. He is pretty useless on offense.
> 
> ...


You're 50%. Thabo doesn't have a jump shot, but he has better than average ballhandling skills for the position. That's what makes him more interesting offensively than other 2s who can't shoot. You can talk about playing him with Ben Gordon when Hinrich is in foul trouble or needs a break. 

Don't get me wrong, I would love for him to get a jump shot. And that is the only way he can get serious minutes in the rotation. But in the meanwhile, he will still be serviceable. So I'm inclined to keep giving him a chance. Sure, if you can do a Thabo for Kobe straight up :biggrin: I'm for it, but if not, let's keep him and give him time to work on the J.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I'd like to echo Wynn's comments....THABO WAS VOTED ON THE FIRST TEAM FOR THE PEPSI SUMMER LEAGUE (there I put it in bold because I didn't see anyone comment on that :biggrin: ) 

Thabo will be just fine. He's a great defender, good foot speed, long arms, his jumper has always been his weakness but he has improved dramatically over the past couple of years. He was playing a lot of point in the summer league games which only emphasizes Pax/Skiles confidence in him.

If your JUST looking at box scores then Thabo isn't very good by his summer league stats, if however you have watched the games you know he is a solid player in spite of being off target a few games.


ACE


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## Fizer Fanatic (Jun 20, 2002)

darlets said:


> The two main things he brings are Size and Rebounding. He does have N.B.A size and all signs point to his rebounding/boxing out skill translating to the big league. But yeah, we have to wait and see.


His detractors like to point out that he came up far short in games against quality centers like Hibbert during his senior season. And I'm not sure that he's played against any really good bigs in the development league. Still, we're talking about a 3rd team All American with great size who was supposed to be a 1st round pick a year ago. I think he'll contribute to the success of the team.


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## djsmokyc (Jan 23, 2004)

darlets said:


> I know it's not my money, but in N.B.A terms signing a 2nd rounder to a two year $800,000 contract would seem like a good way to cover yourself if they should early signs of being servicable.
> 
> From memory we signed Duhon to two years, then matched someone elses offer when he came out of contract.


The new CBA provides teams a little more protection in retaining second rounders that break out. Signing them to a two-year contract is probably the best option. After two years, the team will have Early Bird Rights (allowing them to go above the cap to sign the free agent, up to the average salary/MLE) and the "Gilbert Arenas Provision" prevents other teams from giving an offer sheet that starts at higher than the average salary.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#37

If Gray and Curry are signed for two years each, and become good / key members of the rotation, the Bulls will be able to offer them a starting salary equal to the MLE, without using the MLE. Other teams will only be able to offer the same amount, so the Bulls will be able to match, since both would be restricted free agents.

The Gilbert Arenas rule was not in place when Duhon was resigned. He only had a 1 year deal, and the Bulls had to use part of their MLE to resign him. I think Darius Songaila was signed with the remainder of the MLE that year.

A two-year deal would prevent the Bulls from having to use part of the MLE to match a contract, if Curry or Gray prove worthy.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Rhyder said:


> Until Thabo develops a jump shot, he is best suited to playing the 3 on offense. At this point, he is much more a 3/1 than a 3/2, and his PG skills have not been all that inspiring. He is a nifty passer, but that's about all.


But don't threes need to be able to shoot a jumper too? If the guy never develops a decent jump shot then he's not going to be more than a solid role player but that wouldn't really be the end of the world.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

djsmokyc said:


> The new CBA provides teams a little more protection in retaining second rounders that break out. Signing them to a two-year contract is probably the best option. After two years, the team will have Early Bird Rights (allowing them to go above the cap to sign the free agent, up to the average salary/MLE) and the "Gilbert Arenas Provision" prevents other teams from giving an offer sheet that starts at higher than the average salary.
> 
> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#37


Thanks for that. That good to know


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

I think Thabo's lack of shooting may be a bit overblown. He shot a league average 3 point fg%. They may have been spot up shots but Bruce Bowen has made a career out of playing great defense and standing in one spot and shooting threes on offense. With Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng on the team Thabo will most likely be a backup as long as he's a Bull so he doesn't even have to be as good as Bowen.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Mebarak said:


> Thabo is looking like more of a bust everyday. Btu what can you really expect from the 13th pick in the draft? Usually not too much quality there.


Would you guys trade Thabo to the Celtics for Telfair? Telfair's a nut and it sounds like you don't want Thabo...


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

silverpaw1786 said:


> Would you guys trade Thabo to the Celtics for Telfair? Telfair's a nut and it sounds like you don't want Thabo...


You can have Viktor for Telfair. We are down on Thabo because he still has a chance to be a good player and he hasn't reached his potential yet. People are down on Telfair because everyone feels stupid for believing in the hype and now realize that he doesn't belong in the NBA.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Get up there big man!


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

silverpaw1786 said:


> Would you guys trade Thabo to the Celtics for Telfair? Telfair's a nut and it sounds like you don't want Thabo...


I tried to think of something clever, but couldn't seem to. Unfortunate, really.

Short answer: No freakin' way would anyone on this board want anything to do with Sebastian Telfair.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> Get up there big man!


THROW IT DOWN...ONE TIME!!!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Can someone please post a pic or a vid with Aaron gray singing "this is why I'm hot!" Now that would be Hi-larious.

ACE


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

Thabo didnt tear it up offensively in the last league he was playing in either

we knew we were drafting a defensive player here, and any offense he gives us is gravy.


personally, i think he's a good replacement for Gordon off the bench, and gives us a different look in stretches, when we need to adjust. why we never saw him on Hamilton in last yr's playoffs i dont get... skiles kept saying he was better suited to guarding Prince. but yet who's on Hamilton, Hinrich?


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

summer league is nothing
you just get excited for nothing(thomas wont be this good next season) example morrison impressed in SL but didnt produce so whoever does good doesnt guarantee success

whoever is doing bad is just for people to worry but wont be too improtant
team are just paying attention to thabo since their arent much better players

in the nba we have better offewnsive weapons than thabo so he wont be the focus of the opposition


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## Jo Jo English (Sep 24, 2003)

Summer league isn't everything, for certain, but it is more than nothing. Gray isn't playing aganst an NBA starting lineup, but it looks like he has some skills and he's not absolutely, completely stiff.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

23 points and 9 rebounds for Gray against Paul Millsap. Thats RMR MVP Paul Millsap.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

He's the MVP???

Shelden got rip-off!


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> Thabo is looking like more of a bust everyday. Btu *what can you really expect from the 13th pick in the draft?* Usually not too much quality there.



HEY RICHARD JEFFERSON, COREY MAGGETTE AND KOBE ARE #13 PICKS


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

So are Sebastian Telfair, Marcus Banks, and Marcus Haislip


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## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

How is a player that was valuable as a rookie in the playoffs looking like a bust. While i dont see Thabo ever becoming a star like I do with TT, he in no way shape or form has resembled a bust.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> Can someone please post a pic or a vid with Aaron gray singing "this is why I'm hot!" Now that would be Hi-larious.
> 
> ACE


What nobody else thinks that would be hysterical?


ACE


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

ace20004u said:


> What nobody else thinks that would be hysterical?
> 
> 
> ACE


Ehh..not really


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

The ROY said:


> Ehh..not really


I concur. I'd prefer never to have to hear anything by mims again if I can get around it...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Thabo seems mildly disappointing because he mostly seems like a slightly better Trenton Hassell at this point. That's not really anything to write home about and unless he really gets more solid in his shooting and/or floor leadership that's all he's gonna be.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Its too early to write Thabo off, but I haven't been impressed by him. He didn't really have a successful playoffs IMO other than Game 1 I believe, where Kirk was in foul trouble vs MIA. 

Near the end of the year, Thabo saw increased PT when Big Ben, Tyrus, and Noce were not healthy. Thabo does rebound well. He defends well. But I felt he was a liablity on offense. He has the skillset to be a good slasher. If he can improve his shooting he can be great. But we'll see. He's played in Euro league for a few years and his shooting has yet to be great. Maybe he will never be a good shooter. But if he can become set on driving to the rim, he could end up being a solid player. He needs to gain confidence in himself. I think Thabo could end up being a solid rotation player but he needs some work. I do see Thabo as a SF/SG than a SG/PG.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I see Thabo as a SF/PG, if that makes any sense. I think he'll be capable of playing the point forward position, much like when Pippen would bring up the ball rather than Pax, Kerr, Harper, etc. I don't really see him as a SG, though he could play well at the 2 next to Kirk and Ben with those two playing the 2 guard on offense and the 1 on defense.


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