# Clippers as trading partners will not go away



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bsep04.html

*The latest version of the deal has Marcus Fizer headed to Los Angeles for point guard Keyon Dooling and a salary throw-in, probably Melvin Ely.

The extra player might be one of two Chicago products. Former Thornton star Ely and former Simeon standout Bobby Simmons both have contracts that would fit with Dooling's.

But the Bulls are loaded at power forward and would be more interested in Simmons, who is a 6-6 small forward, a position of need for the Bulls. But Simmons' deal expires after this season, making him more valuable to the Clippers.*


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bsep04.html
> 
> *The latest version of the deal has Marcus Fizer headed to Los Angeles for point guard Keyon Dooling and a salary throw-in, probably Melvin Ely.
> ...


And there is a need to do this deal because???



Just let the Fize walk and let the Clippers keep their crap


Ely and Jaric or they can [edit] off


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I really do not want Dooling. No! 35%???? We can't shoot very well the way it is.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Fact is .. is that there is absolutely no reason to do this deal 

Jaric has some savvy and can play .. Ely a raw project still

Let's not a forget ist a deal the Clips would want to do and not a deal we are compelled to do 

I have been ( and am ) a Pax supporter and am prepared to give him time.. but if he makes this deal .. I will seriously have to consider his capacity for stewardship


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

If nothing else Dooling gives us someone better than Brunson to spell Kirk out there. I am dissappointed though. I was really hoping for Jaric in a Clippers deal. I guess they asked for JC in that case and we declined unless they offered QRich which the Clips declined. Lets hope this is not the only deal we do at the deadline.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Maybe this is Clippers counter-offer? If it is, no deal. 

I would love to get someone for Fizer, but it would be ok just to let him walk at the end of the season. Pax needs to hold out and see how serious LAC are in clearing room for Kobe. Ely is a wash, but Jaric is a have to thing.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> If nothing else Dooling gives us someone better than Brunson to spell Kirk out there. I am dissappointed though. I was really hoping for Jaric in a Clippers deal. I guess they asked for JC in that case and we declined unless they offered QRich which the Clips declined. Lets hope this is not the only deal we do at the deadline.


Are you sure Dooling is better than Brunson? Rick shoots 43%. I am not so sure he is any better! He might be worse.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Yeah he is better, can't believe I even have to justify that comment.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Well, I may be the only one who feels this way about Brunson. He has his faults, but he plays 10 minutes a game and is a hell of a lot more productive than Dooling! He averages 5 minutes less than Dooling does. Rick shoots a lot better, mores assists in 1/3 less time. Better stats all the way across. And many times Rick is in the game during important moments and not in garbage time. 

If we are not satisfied with Rick and that seems to be the majority, I am afraid having dooling here will cause much more of an uproar! 

I may stand alone on that point. But I do feel that way.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

if dooling does become a bull i can see the Dooling v Brunson threads popping up lol

Pax said that shooting guard and SF will be a key postions he addresses this offseason. (thanks for the quote benny the bull) Maybe Pax wants to bring in another PG because jamal is on his way out and wants to have some options othe rthen just brunson at the point. Quick note, dabull7 @ realgm said that there will be big news regarding JC coming soon...might be just a new tattoo but who knows.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Dooling would be acquired to back up Kirk this season, plain and simple. And yes Dooling is better than Brunson IMO. Clippers fans and those that have seen him can testify to that. Unfortunately he's been hurt alot. I like Simmons, he would start for us at the 3 right away.

Not sure why the Clippers do this. It doesn't free up any salary. They could just cut bait on Dooling and Simmons and it'd be the same as doing so for Fizer.

I don't want Ely. I'd rather pick up to TO on Corey Blount thank you very much.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Paxson suggesting that they are targeting the sf & sg positions in the draft could be very sigmificant. It could mean that Paxson is going to be moving Crawford and knows we will need a new sg. It could mean Pax is uncertain of JC's ability to be the full time sg (which is understandable) or, it could mean that Pax wants to get a solid prototypical sg to play behind JC. Also, sf is clearly a need. But, is Pax pursuing a starting sf in the draft? Or is he just looking for a backup for someone he already plans on trading for? Jamal just hired Leon Rose as his agent and that could have some significance too.

This trade is a stinker, Dooling and Simmons are barely ON an NBA team and I don't see how either one helps the Bulls. If the Clips don't want to give up Jaric, why do the Bulls make this deal? Whats the point? Let LA keep it's cap problems.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Incidentally, Dooling is NOT better than Brunson. He does have more potential though.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Is there any reason to think Dooling and Simmons will even be on NBA rosters next year? Would Ely be if he wasn't gonna be under contract?

I'm pretty sure Fizer will be.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

As others have said, this trade really makes no sense.

Ely, like it or not, has to be a part of the deal because he has 3 years remaining on his contract. The sole reason to do the deal is to move someone with multiple years remaining to clear the cap space to enter the Kobe sweepstakes.

*5 years remaining:* Elton Brand, Corey Maggette
*4 years remaining:* Chris Kaman
*3 years remaining:* Melvin Ely, Predrag Drobnjak, Chris Wilcox
*1 year remaining:* Keyon Dooling, Marko Jaric, Quentin Richardson, Eddie House
*Expiring:* Olden Polynice, Bobby Simmons, Doug Overton, Josh Moore, Mart Barnes
*Rights:* Sofoklis Schortsanitis

Looking at the Clippers roster, they have to include Wilcox or Ely in on any deal in order to lighten their load. Technically, they don't have to, but it will help down the road and they are looking to stay flexible and competitive (I can't believe I just said that about the Clippers).

In my opinion, Paxson needs to stick to his guys and get exactly what he wants if we are to deal with the Clippers. They are the team looking for the flexibility and we are one of the teams that can provide it... if they are willing to pay for it.

Personally, I would really love to do a deal involving Q, but I just don't see them parting with him unless Kobe was already signed, sealed and delivered.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

SD brings up a good point. There is no reason Clips do it unless Ely is involved and not Simmons. Both Dooling and Ely come off the books after this year the same way Fizer potentially would. So unless it is Dooling and Ely what is the point for the Clippers?


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I'm not sure why so many people have this fascination that Rick Brunson is a horrible backup PG for this team. Considering how little he plays, he's very productive. I definitely think Dooling as the backup PG would be a downgrade. I shouldn't have to justify that statement because the numbers do.

This trade does nothing for us except exchanging crap for crap. I agree with FJ...there is really no reason to do this deal.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> I'm not sure why so many people have this fascination that Rick Brunson is a horrible backup PG for this team. Considering how little he plays, he's very productive. I definitely think Dooling as the backup PG would be a downgrade. I shouldn't have to justify that statement because the numbers do.
> 
> This trade does nothing for us except exchanging crap for crap. I agree with FJ...there is really no reason to do this deal.


Brunson's productive for how much he plays, but that's because he doesn't play much. He could well be the best 3rd string PG in the league. However, we need a 2nd string PG, or a 2nd string SG that will allow us to shift Jamal over for some periods into the 2nd string PG duties.

That being said, I don't see how Keyon Dooling is that guy, except that he's probably markedly quicker than Brunson. I can't remember seeing much of him though, and the Clippers haven't liked what they've seen, obviously.

==========

A better question though, is if nothing else comes along, why not do Fizer for Ely straight up. Fizer is obviously not coming back, so why not cash him in for something rather than just letting him walk for nothing. Even if Ely is not a great prospect at this point, he would seem a better prospect than no prospect at all.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

[fantasy on]

Okay, I normally don't get involved in trades, but, if the Clippers are serious about making a run at Kobe Bryant or any of the top tier free agents, how about this?

Los Angeles receives: 
SF Scottie Pippen (5.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 17.9 minutes) 
PF Marcus Fizer (6.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 13.8 minutes) 

Chicago receives: 
PF Predrag Drobnjak (6.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 13.8 minutes) 
SG Quentin Richardson (17.6 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.6 minutes) 
PF Melvin Ely (4.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 14.1 minutes) 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Chicago being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Chicago had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

You have been assigned Trade ID number 1466871

---------------------------------------------

Pippen came back to the Bulls for a chance to work in the front office after his career has ended. What better chance for Scottie to make an impact then to let us use his salary to acquire what I consider to be one of the top SG prospects in all of ball. The Clippers receive Pippen and Fizer's deals and officially enter themselves in the Kobe hunt, and still have a damn good core to boot. I would even be willing to throw in cash or a future 2nd rounder if that would send the Clippers over the top.

We literally eat Ely and Drobnjak's contracts to acquire the prize, Mr. Richardson. They both have 3 years remaining on decent deals and they could be used to solidify the bench roles that Corie Blount and JYD currently have, allowing us to deal JYD back to Toronto or somewhere else and let Blount walk. 

[/fantasy off]


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Ok so you are willing to take a flyer on Ely, a guy whos contract has 3 years left than to take a flyer on a backup PG who we can let walk at years end if it does not work out well? Explain that to me. We let a solid backup for Hinrich, the kid is getting burned out. Why not see if Dooling can handle the role? If he can't then show him the door at years end.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Ok so you are willing to take a flyer on Ely, a guy whos contract has 3 years left than to take a flyer on a backup PG who we can let walk at years end if it does not work out well? Explain that to me. We let a solid backup for Hinrich, the kid is getting burned out. Why not see if Dooling can handle the role? If he can't then show him the door at years end.


That's the way I see it too.

Is guess with the chances of the luxury tax happened remote, the value of the expiring contract has diminished. Could be a reason Fizer isn't generating much interest, apart from the fact he has stunk it up on the court.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Ok so you are willing to take a flyer on Ely, a guy whos contract has 3 years left than to take a flyer on a backup PG who we can let walk at years end if it does not work out well? Explain that to me. We let a solid backup for Hinrich, the kid is getting burned out. Why not see if Dooling can handle the role? If he can't then show him the door at years end.


Dooling can't handle the role. At least not any better than Brunson can. Dooling doesn't even really get off of the bench in LA! We are better off hanging on to Fizer and even letting him walk than simply taking LA's trash.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Well I admit I have not seen much of Dooling this year but I am having a hard time believing that he would not do better given 15-20 minutes a night than Brunson would. But whatever lets run Kirk into the ground until he just collapses. Then you will say he stinks and should be traded.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Well I admit I have not seen much of Dooling this year but I am having a hard time believing that he would not do better given 15-20 minutes a night than Brunson would. But whatever lets run Kirk into the ground until he just collapses. Then you will say he stinks and should be traded.


Ummm, I've been saying since day 1 that Kirk should only be playing 32-35mpg. It was mostly a lot of Kirk fans that told me I was crazy and the kid was in such wonderful shape that he could play 45mpg every game and be fine. Dooling is NOT an upgrade over Brunson as a backup pg. Therefore there is no reason to do this deal. The Clips need cap releif, the Bulls need to hold them hostage for Jaric if they want to deal.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Don't get me wrong ACE I want Jaric as well, however I think he should be a starting SG somewhere but that is another story. As for Dooling I don't see the harm in trying him out. We know Fizer is gone at years end if not traded. Dooling may or may not work out as PG. I see no reason why not to try and see if it can work. If not what have we lost? Fizer, well we are going to lose him anyways.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Don't get me wrong ACE I want Jaric as well, however I think he should be a starting SG somewhere but that is another story. As for Dooling I don't see the harm in trying him out. We know Fizer is gone at years end if not traded. Dooling may or may not work out as PG. I see no reason why not to try and see if it can work. If not what have we lost? Fizer, well we are going to lose him anyways.


I think Jaric could be a starting sg somewhere too. I think he is underrated. Dooling just ISN'T going to help this team. I think the Bulls need to look for something else for Fizer. We can't simply roll over and do what LA wants, if they want the cap space they are going to have to part with ACTUAL players, not Dooling & Simmons.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> Personally, I would really love to do a deal involving Q, but I just don't see them parting with him unless Kobe was already signed, sealed and delivered.


How about Ely, Dooling and Q for Fizer and Blount?

Clips goal is to dump Ely and Dooling, not necessarily to get better. They accomplish their goal in clearing space. Our goal is to get better with this trade and by picking up Q we take on their backup garbage and gain QRich, which makes us better.

Works on Trade Checker BTW.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> How about Ely, Dooling and Q for Fizer and Blount?


Look above at my proposal.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Ok straight up what is proper value for Fizer?


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Ok straight up what is proper value for Fizer?


Not much, seemingly based on what we've been offered.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I like your proposal as well, Retro, but since Dooling and Ely are already on the table, I see my proposal having a chance to work. I know this season is a wash, but still, we don't really need we need is 2 more PFs. Dooling would give us another guard body, we get Q, which is our goal and take on Ely 'cause we have to. Clips get Fizer, whom they can hope will flourish with a fresh start out west and another solid 4/5 for now, which they could use, while keeping their eye on the Kobe run...

So again, I suggest Ely, Dooling and Q for Fizer and Blount.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I honestly think that Jaric is the guy Paxson wants and not QRich.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I kind of doubt the Clippers would take Pip and give Q even if Pip guaranteed them he'd retire and come off the cap.

Unless Pip can play much down the stretch, they'll probably lose any chance they have of the playoffs. And of course, Pip has no future there, while Crawford might. I think if I was the Clips I'd insist on Crawford if they're giving Q.

Also, Ely will only be guaranteed for next year. After that we could let him go.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Let's be real with one another.. It's more than likely, that Kobe won't be in a Clipps uni next year.. So forgive me, if I'm not sip'n on that Thunderbird and Kobe Kool-Aide that's being handed out by un-named source's.. Untill the summer, I don't see any need to make these cap saving one sided deal's!.. If we make deal's, they need to be addressing our void's, not satisfying our GM & Owner's pipe dream's!


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## evalam23 (Feb 2, 2004)

It would be nice if Pax can get Jaric, but based on his play recently I do not think Fizer is worth a Jaric, over the last 4 games he has avg 4-5 steals, 26-50 from the floor, 16.75pts, 5rb, 5.75as, and only 5 TO's while averaging 38mins a game. I know it is only the last 4 games, but if he keeps it up, clips would only trade for crawford straight up.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marko_jaric/game_by_game_stats.html


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

> but if he keeps it up, clips would only trade for crawford straight up.



And the problem with that is what exactly?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>evalam23</b>!
> It would be nice if Pax can get Jaric, but based on his play recently I do not think Fizer is worth a Jaric, over the last 4 games he has avg 4-5 steals, 26-50 from the floor, 16.75pts, 5rb, 5.75as, and only 5 TO's while averaging 38mins a game. I know it is only the last 4 games, but if he keeps it up, clips would only trade for crawford straight up.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marko_jaric/game_by_game_stats.html


I'm gonna try to explain this one more time. The Clips are trading to free up capspace to have a shot at Kobe when he becomes a free agent at the end of the season. This has NOTHING To do with trading for equal value. And why in God's name would the Bulls trade Crawford for Jaric? Crawford for Q, ok, maybe, anything else is just silly.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> And the problem with that is what exactly?


That Crawford is much better than Jaric for one.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

That is a matter of opinion.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> That is a matter of opinion.


Ok, let me get this straight, just for the record. You honestly believe that Marko Jaric is better than Jamal Crawford, is that right?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

:yes:


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

:no: 

Thanks for the response at least I know where your head is at. Lemme know if you need any help getting it out of there


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> :no:
> 
> Thanks for the response at least I know where your head is at. Lemme know if you need any help getting it out of there


Ace,

That was very called for. Yes, very called for. Best come back on these PG boards in a long time.

B80 come one, 

I know you are a knowledgeable basketball fan. Jaric is not better than Crawford. There are many teams who are salivating over the Bulls blowing another talent decision like Crawford. 

No many teams are after Jaric. 

I love Jaric and as a closet Clippers fan living in So Cal. can say that he would be very helpful. In fact, if we could get him. I truly belive if we kept Crawford we'd have a great three man rotation at the PG/SG spots. I also agree with those who day Dooling is a wash. If he works out great, if not, no big. I've seen him play well and play horrible. Sounds like the guy we'd be trading for him. 

Hinrich, nor any player should be playing that many mintues. Crawford is not the main reason we are losing. Jaric could spell or come in for either at any time.

My proposal back to them would be Fizer and Blount for Jaric, Dooling and Ely.

They free up even more space, but have another vet center presence for their faint playoff drive.

I'd sub Drobniak if they want instead of Dooling or Ely. Drob's got a Euro shooting touch.


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## evalam23 (Feb 2, 2004)

What I am trying to say is that when the initial trade rumors were starting, fizer for jaric/ely might have been reasonable because jaric was not playing major minutes and ely was just a throw in, and if that trade was availabe Pax should of pulled the trigger than. Now it is too late (dooling is mentioned now) and the clips would not trade jaric for anyone but crawford on the bulls, I am not saying that is what I want just if I was the clips that is what I would want for jaric. 

I have not seen jaric play, but most european players are sound fundamentally and I think that is something the bulls need more fundamentals.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

> Thanks for the response at least I know where your head is at. Lemme know if you need any help getting it out of there


Comments like this is exactly what this board does not need. No need to stoop that low. Have a little respect for your fellow posters. I like to think the mods would agree with me here.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

*This is a bad idea*

Brunson is better than Dooling.
Fizer has an expiring contract, Ely has 3 years remaining.
Bobby Simmons is barely in the league. 

This trade does not help us.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: This is a bad idea*



> Originally posted by <b>Bulls42</b>!
> Brunson is better than Dooling.
> Fizer has an expiring contract, Ely has 3 years remaining.
> Bobby Simmons is barely in the league.
> ...


For the second time, Ely does not have three years remaining.

He has next year guaranteed and a team option for the 2nd year. The 3rd year would be the year he's a restricted free agent.

Just because RealGM's trade checker says it doesn't mean it's so


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

If that is the trade, then that really doesn't hurt this team; Dooling is a free agent, so if he doesn't work out here, then no biggie. I would like to see a Crawford/ Dooling backcourt and what they can do. Ely gives us a back-up 5 to spell some minutes for Eddy Curry and a younger 5 at that. We can then let Blount walk.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> 
> My proposal back to them would be Fizer and Blount for Jaric, Dooling and Ely.
> 
> ...


I think this is a good idea.

I'm coming to the conclusion that we aren't going to get much else for Fizer or Blount. Ideally I'd like to move Blount in a seperate deal (say for Mo Pete?), but if that's not a possibility we should at least get what we can.

If we could land a decent, versatile player like Jaric though, I'd think we did ok. I'd probably be willing to throw in Gill or Brunson in on this deal if it'd get us Jaric. They can keep Dooling if they want.

DRob/Jaric/Ely
for
Fizer/Blount/Gill

This deal gives the Clips two solid vets who can help them down the stretch and then come off the books.

for us, Ely's contract is no burden at all, and I like his size. DRob is under contract for a couple of years, but he's not dramatically overpaid. He's a big guy who could create some space for Chandler or Curry to operate by hitting an outside shot. That is something we need in a major way. 

And of course we get Jaric while keeping Crawford. We're still a bit thin in the backcourt, but the basic rotation of Kirk, Jamal, and Marko looks like a solid one. Three guys who are all somewhat interchangeable because they mix PG and SG skills. I like that idea pretty good. If we follow it up in the off-season with a 4th guy who can also play a bit at the 3 (think Jalen Rose, but with athleticism and defense), we'll be in really good shape.

Going into next season, we have

1/2: Kirk, Jamal, Jaric
2/3: ERob
3/4 JYD
4/5: Chandler, AD, Ely
5: Curry, DRob

+ our pick, a MLE player, and a veteran exception player.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> 
> 
> Comments like this is exactly what this board does not need. No need to stoop that low. Have a little respect for your fellow posters. I like to think the mods would agree with me here.


hey, I was trying to just make it a "G-rated" little jab at you. I actually LIKE Marko Jaric, but if you think he is better than Crawford I am seriously worried about you man.

In any case, I do respect you and I respect your opinions, it only gets difficult when they start to get WAY out in left field. And I, as a mod, don't agree.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Well ACE since it is fair game how about you removing your head from Jamal's long enough to see some daylight.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

How about we let this entire line of thinking drop and not personalize the disagreement. It's not making anyone look particularly good IMHO.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Joining this late, I dont think its a good idea to do this deal if Jaric is not involved. Ely is something, not much, but something. The part where people get it confused is that Fizer isnt nothing to us, at worst hes cap space in the offseason which is better than Ely IMO. Jaric would be a different story, but thats why the Clips dont want him involved.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Well ACE since it is fair game how about you removing your head from Jamal's long enough to see some daylight.


 

Turnabout is fair play. And I have no problems with you thinking the way you do. I do find it interesting that your mind was "made up" a long time ago as you admit in another post. Bottom line is that Jaric is a good player but he isn't even on the same level as Jamal. If you didn't absolutely despise Jamal so much you would see that I think. In any case, as we so often do, lets just agree to disagree.

And just FYI, it is NEVER personal. You are one of THE most passionate Bulls fans I have ever had the pleasure of communicating with and I love the fact that your always a Bulls fan no matter what. Even if you don't know your rear end from a hole in the ground  (that last part was a good natured joke btw)


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

> Even if you don't know your rear end from a hole in the ground


 :whatever:


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> 
> 
> :whatever:


 

I'm sorry man, I'm just teasing ya! Shake hands?

If he really doesn't know his rear end from a hole in the ground, I wouldn't be so quick to offer my hand...

TB#1


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Yeah he is better, can't believe I even have to justify that comment.


Ya, you definitely haven't seen Dooling play....


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> Look above at my proposal.


I don't know how many times I have to say that we aren't trading Q...

Those proposals were terrible, we're going to give up Q for Pippen?

And the pipe passing continues...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

:yes:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Joining this late, I dont think its a good idea to do this deal if Jaric is not involved. Ely is something, not much, but something. The part where people get it confused is that Fizer isnt nothing to us, at worst hes cap space in the offseason which is better than Ely IMO. Jaric would be a different story, but thats why the Clips dont want him involved.


That's not really the case though, because even if Fizer walks, we won't be under the salary cap. And with the luxury tax a non-issue, there's really not as much else to consider. If we kept Fizer we'd be more over the cap, and if he walks we'd be less over the cap. But we'd still be over the cap and thus, our options wouldn't change much at all.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> :yes:


:grinning:  :yes:


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I really doubt that the clippers will trade Q. It wouldn't make sense.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> That's not really the case though, because even if Fizer walks, we won't be under the salary cap. And with the luxury tax a non-issue, there's really not as much else to consider. If we kept Fizer we'd be more over the cap, and if he walks we'd be less over the cap. But we'd still be over the cap and thus, our options wouldn't change much at all.


Well, I'm not an expert on the cap and all that. If thats the case and it cant hurt our chances of getting another player whos better, than it doesnt hurt I guess. As long as hes not causing problems in the locker room or with the coaches about not playing enough.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

One thing I can say about Keyon Dooling is that he takes the ball to the rack with more ferocity than any of our guards. That little dude can get up and dunk nasty on you. Call me a child of the hip hop generation, but our team needs a little more of that swagger.

Now as for the rest of his game......


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Dooling is what he currently is....

a good back up PG. He's a spark plug type guy who can score. He will fit in with his matador defense.

Dooling shouldn't be anyone's principal to the deal - Bulls or Clippers.

Clippers aparently want space ...Bulls need talent. If Clippers blink we get Jaric, if not we get Ely and the appearance of making moves.

If Jaric comes I'm happy, if it's Dooling and Ely it was a nothing deal. Maybe we can get a 2nd rd pick next year from them included. Help pay for the Bryce Drew mistake.

I still think the best proposal for both teams is:

Fizer/Gill/Blount for Jaric/Drob/Ely and Dooling

Clippers get Vets for a playoff run and we get some young talent to try out and Jaric who will contribute immediately.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

That is a great deal chifaninca. I would jump on that if the Clips would. Somehow I doubt it though. On a side note I respectfully request that you take out that comment from ACE on your sig. Thanks.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> 
> I still think the best proposal for both teams is:
> 
> ...


I agree, except that if the Clips give Jaric, they'd probably want to keep Dooling.

However, unloading Jaric, DRob, and Ely means they get to have maximum flexibility this summer. They'd conceivably have enough space to both sign Kobe and still retain Q or keep Q and sign 2-3 other decent free agents (a la Theo Ratliff, Crawford, Arroyo, etc). And really, the only cost of this kind of flexibility is Jaric... a guy who's a nice player, but certainly not as good as the guys they could land by making this sort of move.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Yeah I say take out Dooling on their end and we take out Gill. So its Fizer/Blount for Jaric/Ely/DRob

Hinrich,Jaric,Rrunson
Crawford,Gill,Jeffries
Pippen,Robinson,Dupree
Chandler,JYD,Ely
Curry,Davis,DRob


Dooling,Overton
QRich,House
Maggette,Barnes,Simmons
Brand,Wilcox
Kaman,Blount

Edit: I realize the gigantic hole at starting PG. Attention Clip fans go get Carlos Arroyo in FA. Perfect fit there.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> That is a great deal chifaninca. I would jump on that if the Clips would. Somehow I doubt it though. On a side note I respectfully request that you take out that comment from ACE on your sig. Thanks.


Basghetti,

Cause I do enjoy reading your thoughts, even the occasional lopsided blame Jamal ones, and consider you a die hard Bulls fan...I have changed my sig. 

I do agree though, that if Jaric is included, they will likely need to keep Dooling unless we gave the Brunson too.

Wow, this deal gets better with every revision.

If we could somehow convince them to take AD.......

I know, it'll end up being Fizer for Ely and Dooling. But a Bulls fan can still dream right?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Contrary to other if it ends up Fizer for Ely and Dooling I am cool with that as well. Everyone talks about our need for help at SG and SF and its true we need help there BAD but if Jamal is going to be fulltime SG(which I hate the idea of) then a backup PG is ESSENTIAL. Give Dooling a chance to be that guy for us.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Yeah I say take out Dooling on their end and we take out Gill. So its Fizer/Blount for Jaric/Ely/DRob
> 
> Hinrich,Jaric,Rrunson
> ...


Seems to me you guys want players you know nothing about...

Dooling was a guy who would go to the rack and dunk on people, before his injury, he still has his hops a little, but he's definitely not the same player of before the injury...

He's really an undersized 2, playing the 1....

DRob has a serious case of tunnel vision, which is why he doesn't play much...

From our end I want to keep Jaric, because he would be a great 6th man, and he has been playing GREAT lately...

The way I see it is we are in the driver's seat because its obvious the Bulls are desperate....

We'll get the cap space we want, and get rid of a sorry PG, and a big man who really can't seem to get in before Tunnel Vision, err, DRob.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> 
> 
> Basghetti,
> ...


lol....

We don't want AD....

We're a fairly young team with fairly young talent, not just sorry young players, and old *** sorry talent. The only guy I can say that about is OP. 

Anyway, we just got rid of old *** Dirty Rice, why would we take AD?

The smart thing for the Bulls would be to try and send AD to a contender.. 

Read: Pacers

For an upcoming player who's unhappy with his role coming off the bench...

Read: Al Harrington.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

The basic trade of Fizer for Dooling and Simmons makes sense. First of all, you simply can't expect to get much more than that for a guy who can't crack the rotation of a 13-36 team. 

For the balance of this season, Dooling gives the Bulls a backup PG who has a better chance of beating the retired Mark Jackson in a footrace than Rick Brunson has...or did everyone miss the beating Claxton gave Brunson one on one?

Simmons is a rather significant SF upgrade over either Dupree or a resigned Linton Johnson. And he'll remain healthier than Pippen has. Between Simmons and Robinson we might actually get some production out of that position.

Both players can be cut loose at season's end much the same way Fizer will be anyway. Or they could be re-signed on the cheap if they show any kind of ability to contribute.

So what's not to like? The team adds some depth where it needs it at the expense of giving up Dalibor Bagaric's bench replacement. Did anyone actually expect to get something sexier in return for Fizer?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Hey Kismet been a while good to see you back. Give us an update on what you been up to.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Hey Kismet been a while good to see you back. Give us an update on what you been up to.


I work for Interpol and I've been tracking Rlucas all over the globe. :grinning:


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> I work for Interpol and I've been tracking Rlucas all over the globe. :grinning:


Welcome back, esteemed poster. Don't be such a damn stranger. 

Speaking of which, I think I saw Thunderspirit browsing yesterday. 

Now all we need is Grizzo back and we're set.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Welcome back, esteemed poster. Don't be such a damn stranger.
> ...


Ahh yes... we need Grizzo, Songcycle, and that Artest guy back here to reunite the Hall of Flame triumvirate. 

As I've said before... In Kismet We Trust. Good to see ya back!!!
:yes:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Welcome back kismet. :rbanana: :banana:


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Am I the only person, who think's that trading our starting point(Jaric) for anything less than a quality replacement in Craw or Hiney would be a total waste?.. Yeah, I know.. We've made idiot move's before.. But.. These proposal's would be #1 on my list.. BTW Arenas.. You'd be more than welcome to post more on the Clipps board!


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

lol...

Thanks Natty...

I do! 

Just not as much because this board is so alive..

Hey do you know about the clipper board at clippertalk?

That one is ok I guess, I posted once about Jamal there..

I'm not sure if you saw, but I went to the Bulls game when they came to Miami, and wrote a big report here about it..

I was at the game when the Clips came here too, and I was going to do the same on the Clips board...

It's funny the things you notice in person than you can't see on TV...

Anyway Natty, regarding this trade, the Bulls are desperate, Jaric has been GREAT lately, and he would fit the Bulls nicely, however, I believe we could get Jamal without giving up Jaric, just because I believe the Bulls are desperate to make a deal, and I honestly believe they know they have to get rid of Jamal because chances are he will get a team to pay him enough that the Bulls can't and/or won't match.

Fact is we're in the driver's seat here...


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Natty Dreadlockz</b>!
> Am I the only person, who think's that trading our starting point(Jaric) for anything less than a quality replacement in Craw or Hiney would be a total waste?.. Yeah, I know.. We've made idiot move's before.. But.. These proposal's would be #1 on my list.. BTW Arenas.. You'd be more than welcome to post more on the Clipps board!


it's been pointed out ad nauseum that the Clips wouldn't be making this trade on the principle of value-for-value, but rather in an attempt to clear out a few extra mil to throw at Kobe. 

Obviously from a talent perspective, giving up Jaric/Ely for Fizer is crazy talk, and given how Jaric has been playing, I think the Clips will look elsewhere to make any salary dumps and try to hold onto him. By the same token, the Bulls have been on the losing end of the talent equation on the last few trades and _hopefully_ won't make any deal unless Jaric is involved, and won't deal Jamal unless Q is involved. Both are probably deal-breakers on the Clips' end, but we're hoping not.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

*HOLY SCHNIKIES! THANKS EVERYONE.*


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> The basic trade of Fizer for Dooling and Simmons makes sense. First of all, you simply can't expect to get much more than that for a guy who can't crack the rotation of a 13-36 team.
> 
> For the balance of this season, Dooling gives the Bulls a backup PG who has a better chance of beating the retired Mark Jackson in a footrace than Rick Brunson has...or did everyone miss the beating Claxton gave Brunson one on one?
> ...


In short...

Yes

He's an expiring contract for teams that want to maneuver this summer

Dogpoop for Dogpoop in expiring contacts?

Please no more 2nd grade scrubs.. and Drooling and Richard Simmons are exactly that 

Just scrubs replacing scrubs


Be bold 

Go hard 

Go long 

Deal the Fize to a team that needs to dance for cap room to be a player and pick up a piece .. or .. 

YAHWEH .. LET ME PEOPLE GO !!

*Fizer , Blount , and Kendall Gill 

for 

Jahidi White and Casey Jacobsen 

*

And if the Clips and Suns are serious about making a play for Kobe but don't want to give up a non core piece role player like Marco Carrot or Casey Jakes we shouldn't even be bothered talking to the bloody imposters in charge of their front office

Jacobsen or Jaric could have a legit future on our team and could be a shrewd pick up .. but Drooling and Dicky Simmons .. C'mon

You get defined by your actions and how you let other people treat you and if Pax is going to be every other GM's ho .... and we don't try and improve but just become a crap recycyling station .. then I guess sooner or later he will grow tired of leaving his arse in the air and let everyone who wants to come along have a poke


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Welcome back kismet. :rbanana: :banana:


Yes.. it feels as though you never left


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

another upside mutt Dooling.
Fine. Is there any chance Skiles goes to Dooling over Trick Brunson?

whatever, i guess this Fizer deal will go down somehow, and the best thing out of this is Bobby Simmons or Ely. Too bad about Marco. This deal now becomes a major yawner.

Given our weakness on the wing I guess Bobby Simmons can help win a game or two, IMO he's a pretty fair player


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

What the ??

If you were so jazzed about Dicky Simmons and Keyring why not just whore yourself at them in the offseason and them cut the mustard in training camp as opposed to getting scrubs de jour in here now in this season we have confused as an elongated goddamned training camp

Am I pissed at this joke of an organisation?

Betcha arse


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

I mean the trade just doesn't do anything .. so why do i t


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

if that was directed at me, no I'm not Jazzed. I already said this is a yawner. Recheck the tone.
Simmons is at least a Jeffries upgrade, however, just as much of an upside mutt as Dooling (better than Dooling probably).

Why do it? we need bodies on the perimeter


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!


Could you provide some analysis to explain why Casey Jacobson is better than Bobby Simmons or Jahidi White is better than Melvin Ely?

To quote Washington Redskins owner Daniel Snyder, Jacobson would certainly be the kind of "sexy pick", but I don't see much in the way of saying one is crap and the other isn't.

They play about the same minutes and put up about the same stats. Jacobson is a better shooter but Simmons is a very good defender and Jacobson isn't. Along those lines, check out Simmons' net +/- vs. Jacobsons' at http://www.82games.com/

The same appears to be true for Ely vs. White.

If we get Dooling, we really suffer no loss. At the very worst we have a backup PG to go against quicker players like Speedy Claxton.

Obviously neither of these will turn the season around, but when I actually rank out the players, Simmons/Ely for Fizer kicks serious *** over Fizer/Blount/Gill for Jacobson and White. We give up less and we get more back.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Based on the ranking of players I just did (where I combined my statistical rating index with an adjusted +/- ratio I just ripped off from 82Games to get some sense of defensive differences, here's how these guys rank out:

Blount: 120 / 198
Gill: 195 / 168
Fizer: 256 / 265

Jacobson: 211 / 228
White: 260 /265

Simmons: 135 / 201
Ely: 223 /312
Dooling: 290 /293

The first number is my ranking (compared to all players this season) when adjusting for +/- and the second number is without adjusting. (For Curiosity's sake, Rick Brunson is 215 / 247). But either way you look at it, we seem to be doing quite a bit better to avoid the Phoenix trade. Especially when you consider what we give up and what we get back in terms of salary. Yuck.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

I think the Clipps wanted Crawford all along and was hoping that Pax was crazy enough to toss him in since rumors were that the Bulls were so disappointed in him .

The Clipps have Hopes of getting Kobe but why go for something as far fetched as him leaving the lakers AND not getting convicted as well when they can pick up a supposedly unwanted Crawford from the Bulls .


I think this entire Fizer/ely/dooling deal is because Fizer has requested out and this is the deal his agent is coming up with .


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Could you provide some analysis to explain why Casey Jacobson is better than Bobby Simmons or Jahidi White is better than Melvin Ely?
> ...




We need an experienced back up Center with legit size. Ely ? No . White ? YesCheck

We need a perimeter shooter type who you have to respect from range who has the _capacity_ to open it uph range . Booby Simms ? No. Dupes . No . Lynton ? No Trent ? No. Casey ? Definate maybe. Check

Plus I'm a closet poof and I think Casey is a spunk 

So .. without getting scientific about it .. I just looked at need fits .. particularly if we don't deal Jamal and hang on to him until the end of the season 

With Tyson's back still questionable and if it relapses we 
AD and JYD at strong forward. If Tyson is OK you have AD backing him anyhow as I like a guy with more size backing Eddy Curry for say 18 minutes a night .

If Eddy is in foul trouble you play Jahidi more at Center and it won't hurt you that much and you still have AD and JYD backing up the 5 and 4 

I want to see Eddie Robinson be given the starting small forward nod for the rest of the season ... or at least be given the minutes there if you want to start Dupree... either way you can get away with using JYD here as a defender back up as well .. or if you go small Jacabson could spot some here as well 

But the guard rotation would be Kirk, Hinrich and Jacobsen

I mean .. let's face it we need a reliable shooter badly and Jacobsen has got more chance of helping this team inwhat we need now and what we need long term 

Sometimes things don't neatly fall into rational science on statistical analysis

I know that would shock some to their core but its just the way it is 

I don't make the rules.. I just break them


Nuff said


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> But the guard rotation would be Kirk, Hinrich and Jacobsen


Wow...

That strikes fear in my heart...


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!
> if that was directed at me, no I'm not Jazzed. I already said this is a yawner. Recheck the tone.
> Simmons is at least a Jeffries upgrade, however, just as much of an upside mutt as Dooling (better than Dooling probably).
> 
> Why do it? we need bodies on the perimeter


It wasn't directed at you 

It was more generally directed 

Peace!!


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow...
> ...


Whoops !

Typo 

I meant Hinrich, Jamal and Jacobsen backing up the 2 when Jamal goes to 1 and spells Kirk


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Jacobson IMO is a much better player than either Dooling or Simmons and a better fit on the Bulls. That being said the whole thing is still a yawner.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Jacobson IMO is a much better player than either Dooling or Simmons and a better fit on the Bulls. That being said the whole thing is still a yawner.


I think he is too. I wouldn't mind having simmons if we canot have jaccoson, but I do not want Dooling unless we release him after the trade or something to that extent.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> We need an experienced back up Center with legit size. Ely ? No . White ? YesCheck


Size is great. Dillybar had plenty of size. I've watched Jahidi play a lot with the Wiz. He's a second string center on a bad team, a third string center on a good team.

His hands and general inability to do anything make him an extraordinarily limited player.



> We need a perimeter shooter type who you have to respect from range who has the _capacity_ to open it uph range . Booby Simms ? No. Dupes . No . Lynton ? No Trent ? No. Casey ? Definate maybe. Check


This is a valid point. But isn't Simmons hitting like 35% of his threes? That's not shabby.



> Plus I'm a closet poof and I think Casey is a spunk


Also a valid point



> So .. without getting scientific about it .. I just looked at need fits .. particularly if we don't deal Jamal and hang on to him until the end of the season
> 
> With Tyson's back still questionable and if it relapses we
> AD and JYD at strong forward. If Tyson is OK you have AD backing him anyhow as I like a guy with more size backing Eddy Curry for say 18 minutes a night .
> ...


I dunno... but I don't see Jacobson as that much better a fit with Kirk and Jamal than I do Simmons. Simmons isn't sexy, but he can hit three point shots and play better defense. He's athletic enough to play the 2 just as Jacobson is marginally big enough to play the three. Jacobson could be better based on his superior shooting, but I'm not at all sure. Perhaps when he's not playing next to guys that slash and create a lot of space (like Marion, Johnson, and man... Barbossa), he'll find it harder to get his shot.

Not saying that's certainly the case... it could be that he creates space for them or that he could feed off Curry, but there's a lot of dynamics involved.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> it's been pointed out ad nauseum that the Clips wouldn't be making this trade on the principle of value-for-value, but rather in an attempt to clear out a few extra mil to throw at Kobe.


It's been pointed out ad nauseum that the Clips have no guarantee's in regard's to where Kobe end's up next season.. We won't be the only team with cap space nor will we be the most appealing!.. Clearing space now make's no sense!.. When were 3 game's below .500, and still have pipe dream's for the playoff's!.. All I can say is.. If you were in our situation, would you just pack it in and make a trade based on hope's rather than fact's?


> Obviously from a talent perspective, giving up Jaric/Ely for Fizer is crazy talk, and given how Jaric has been playing, I think the Clips will look elsewhere to make any salary dumps and try to hold onto him. By the same token, the Bulls have been on the losing end of the talent equation on the last few trades and _hopefully_ won't make any deal unless Jaric is involved, and won't deal Jamal unless Q is involved. Both are probably deal-breakers on the Clips' end, but we're hoping not.


I see your point.. Hopefully.. The Bulls would continue to be on the losing end of any deal with the Clipps .. Lord know's.. We've made enough terrible roster move's to cover a couple decade's!


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> lol...
> Thanks Natty...
> I do!
> Just not as much because this board is so alive..


My bad.. I wrote that before checking the Clipps board!.. I agree with ya though.. The Bulls thread is the best on the entire board's, in term's of hoops discussion's!


> Hey do you know about the clipper board at clippertalk?
> That one is ok I guess, I posted once about Jamal there..


Nah.. I'll have to check it out!.. What was there opinion of acquiring Jamal?


> I'm not sure if you saw, but I went to the Bulls game when they came to Miami, and wrote a big report here about it..
> I was at the game when the Clips came here too, and I was going to do the same on the Clips board...


Yeah.. I saw that.. I wouldn't of posted my thought's on the Clipps vs. Heat game either.. What a terrible loss! :upset: 


> It's funny the things you notice in person than you can't see on TV...


Tell me about it.. I travel back and forth, monthly between LA.. MIA and da Lou!.. I try to catch as many Clipps and Heat game's as possible.. And one thing I've noticed about the Clipps.. We need a point something serious.. Honestly.. Acquiring JC would be more beneficial to our future than making cap saving trade's in order to make us look sexy to Kobe!.. Last time I checked, were still the Clipps and I can't remember the last time we signed a superstar!.. Thus.. The odd's aren't in our favor! 


> Anyway Natty, regarding this trade, the Bulls are desperate, Jaric has been GREAT lately, and he would fit the Bulls nicely, however, I believe we could get Jamal without giving up Jaric, just because I believe the Bulls are desperate to make a deal, and I honestly believe they know they have to get rid of Jamal because chances are he will get a team to pay him enough that the Bulls can't and/or won't match.
> Fact is we're in the driver's seat here...


I never thought about it that way!.. Their starting to act like our front office did up untill this past offseason.. Trading just to trade, won't get you anywhere!


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## evalam23 (Feb 2, 2004)

It would have been nice if the Bulls got Jaric in the earlier fizer for Jaric/ely trade, but that was all a myth and in reality they are going to trade fizer for whatever they can get, because fizer is just burning a hole on the bench. If Fizer did not hurt his knee, he would probably be one of the top scoring 6man in the league. Now the bulls are going to give up on him because he probably came back too early and he is not 100%, but when he is 100% it will be too late and the bulls will only see him playing on another team. IMO


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

The OCRegister keeps the fire burning......



> DOOLING DEAL?
> 
> Dunleavy said backup guard Keyon Dooling has kept a positive attitude despite little playing time the past several weeks.
> 
> ...


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Natty Dreadlockz</b>!
> 
> It's been pointed out ad nauseum that the Clips have no guarantee's in regard's to where Kobe end's up next season.. We won't be the only team with cap space nor will we be the most appealing!.. Clearing space now make's no sense!.. When were 3 game's below .500, and still have pipe dream's for the playoff's!.. All I can say is.. If you were in our situation, would you just pack it in and make a trade based on hope's rather than fact's?
> 
> I see your point.. Hopefully.. The Bulls would continue to be on the losing end of any deal with the Clipps .. Lord know's.. We've made enough terrible roster move's to cover a couple decade's!


Hey I agree with you. The Bulls packed it in for cap space and came away with Ron Mercer and a fat, lazy Brad Miller. :uhoh: I was just saying, that's the rationale behind making a trade that isn't clearly a trade for need or talent. If the Clips know something we don't about Kobe's intentions, then MAYBE they'd do it. Unlikely, but we are talking about one of the best players in the NBA here. The possibility of getting him might be worth giving up Jaric. I actually think the Clips are a great situation for Kobe to step into if he wants to prove his mettle. Take the perennial losers on your back and win in the playoffs! That's what Kobe would want to prove, plus he'd have two great sidekicks in Brand and Maggette to help get it done.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Interesting that the article mentions the Bulls possibly 'packaging' Fizer.. meaning he'll come with another player. Probably Blount in my estimation. Assuming Dooling is involved, Fizer and Blount can net us:

1) Dooling/Jaric
2) Dooling/Jaric/Simmons
3) Dooling/Ely
4) Dooling/Ely/Simmons


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

True SD it could be Fizer and Blount or it could be Fizer and Crawford(for Jaric/Ely/Dooling).


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> True SD it could be Fizer and Blount or it could be *Fizer and Crawford(for Jaric/Ely/Dooling).*


I wouldn't mind the deal in bold!


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey I agree with you. The Bulls packed it in for cap space and came away with Ron Mercer and a fat, lazy Brad Miller. :uhoh: I was just saying, that's the rationale behind making a trade that isn't clearly a trade for need or talent. If the Clips know something we don't about Kobe's intentions, then MAYBE they'd do it. Unlikely, but we are talking about one of the best players in the NBA here. The possibility of getting him might be worth giving up Jaric. I actually think the Clips are a great situation for Kobe to step into if he wants to prove his mettle. Take the perennial losers on your back and win in the playoffs! That's what Kobe would want to prove, plus he'd have two great sidekicks in Brand and Maggette to help get it done.


I feel ya.. It's just in me, to give you a hard time .. Eventhough.. I realize, that it's totally possible that we'll end up doing something along those line's!


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

http://www.nypost.com/sports/16117.htm



> The Wizards and Clippers are talking seriously about swapping Brevin Knight for Keyon Dooling and Melvin Ely, I'm told.


Well, if this is serious (I have my doubts because this trade helps the Wiz even less that it helps us), it totally screws our chances because I'm sure the Clips would prefer a veteran PG to a PF who can't get off the bench.


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

personally i think that all of you who think that brunson is better than dooling is just a flat out retard. have you seen dooling play on a consistent basis? well i have and let me tell you he is a hell of a lot better than brunson. stat sheets tell jack [edit] and unless you see the actual games you know nothing. some of you "leaders" of this site act like you know everything which i find ridiculous. turn your ego meters down a little because your egos and acting like you know it all is plain annoying. brunson is trash and does play in garbage minutes. his shot is horrid from outside. he scores his points on dink jump shots


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