# Olowokandi



## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

Do you now exact time when OLO will be back? 

I need it for my fantasy league. Thanks.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!
> Do you now exact time when OLO will be back?
> 
> I need it for my fantasy league. Thanks.


No, don't know AND Clippers Fans here in the States DON'T CARE.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Olowokandi*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> No, don't know AND Clippers Fans here in the States DON'T CARE.


LOL! Will you guys miss him at all next season. I know that fans feel he is a cancer, but it still seems hard to replace a 7ft good center in this league. I bet he commands close to maximum dollars next season.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Olowokandi*



> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL! ... good center ....


That's the problem. He is NOT good. Kandi had a good 2 month run last year AFTER Brand was acquired to do the hard rebounding work.

Kandi has ONE move to score and the majority of the time it doesn't hit the basket. AND, what's worse --- he believes HE's the go-to-guy for the team merely BECAUSE he's a 7th footer.

IMO, we need a center that PLAYS defense and can kick the ball out to our many scorers. MJ won his championships without a 7 ft Center, the Clippers can as well. Not saying anyone on the Clippers come close to MJ status, but we have some good guys there.

Our main problem, other than Kandi, is the Coach who doesn't know how to use the guys. He's so busy trying to be their friend and frankly, I don't believe he knows the game.

Bring on Van Gundy.

Oh --- to answer your question --- won't miss him ONE bit. Ely and Rooks are looking pretty good. Van Gundy could probably get some good play out of ZhiZhi as well. No won't miss him at all


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

That's a fair assessment of Kandi but I believe this season is not an accurate barameter for his talent since it looks as if he is just waiting to leave LA.

He came on real strong last season and demonstrated his potential. Remember, he came to organized basketball late in his life and only started showing amazing development last season. Rightly so, it took him longer to develop and progress and I genuinely see him flourishing when he lands with another team.

Sterling made the mistake in creating a horrible environment for him by just signing him to the qualifying offer rather than an extension.

And this same Sterling will never pay Jeff Van Gundy dollars to get a decent coach for your team. In fact, this is the reason that I believe Gentry hasn't been fired this season: why would Sterling ever fire someone and throw away that money when he can continue to make the person work for him.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Don Sterling is a problem, but he didn't ...*



> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> That's a fair assessment of Kandi but I believe this season is not an accurate barameter for his talent since it looks as if he is just waiting to leave LA.
> 
> He came on real strong last season and demonstrated his potential. Remember, he came to organized basketball late in his life and only started showing amazing development last season.
> ...


cause the Kandi situation. Please see my comments incorporated in your response above.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

LOL! Definately a dreamer.

One quick point - I understand why you feel that Kandi played for himself this season due to a contract situation. But, didn't other Clipper's teammates, such as Odom, admit the exact same thing to Baylor and Sterling during a meeting? 

Maybe it is just because I am an outsider to the situation, but I really see Kandi being used as the scapegoat in LA rather being the cause of the problem.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

Dynasty Raider: Just wanted to clear up one quick point.

You say Kandi is 30 years old when in fact he is only 27.

Michael Olokandi born: April 3, 1975, Lagos, Nigeria


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*OOPS!!!!*



> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> Dynasty Raider: Just wanted to clear up one quick point.
> 
> You say Kandi is 30 years old when in fact he is only 27.
> ...



So ... he just LOOKS old and worn out?  I could have sworn that he was 29-30. But, since he had a 4 yr. contract after completing college, that's about right. Unless he had been red-shirted. Oh well, I don't care. Poof --- Kandi be GONE.


Obviously, I am NOT a fan. Can't get anything positive about him from me. And, yes, there is toooo much to explain to convince you that Kandi is not a scapegoat in this. They all do WANT a contract extension, but it was KANDI who went public and took the guys' focus from the Playoff to them "NOT GETTING PAID". It was Kandi that continued it through the Summer and into the new season.

YOU CAN TAKE HIM --- There will be no tears shed in LA, but many prayers for the team taking the risk.

April 3, huh? A hard-headed firery ARIES. That explains some of his attitude.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

opposed to popular view, Kandi did play basketball before going to UPacific, he just didn't concentrate on it. He concentrated on soccer and track. It's not that he doesn't have the experience, he doesn't know the game because he simply doesn't have the understanding. There's another player quite similar to Kndi in this year's draft, Uche Okafor. Uche, unlike, Kandi though never lived in France or Britain and doesn't have a soccer background. Uche is raw, 7-0, physically developed, and has a bad attitude that landed him in juco instead of Mizzou. 
Also Kandi entered UPacific at age 20 and declared as a junior, that explains his age. Physically though Kandi will be past his peak by 28 or 29 (as most centers are).

I would trade almost anything on the Clippers to get Darko Milicic as the replacement for Kandi; I would trade Wilcox, Q, Miller, and their 1st if meant getting Milicic and a few backups. He is all that Kandi is not, so youcan figure he'll soon be an all-star.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> opposed to popular view, Kandi did play basketball before going to UPacific, he just didn't concentrate on it. He concentrated on soccer and track. It's not that he doesn't have the experience, he doesn't know the game because he simply doesn't have the understanding. There's another player quite similar to Kndi in this year's draft, Uche Okafor. Uche, unlike, Kandi though never lived in France or Britain and doesn't have a soccer background. Uche is raw, 7-0, physically developed, and has a bad attitude that landed him in juco instead of Mizzou.
> Also Kandi entered UPacific at age 20 and declared as a junior, that explains his age. Physically though Kandi will be past his peak by 28 or 29 (as most centers are).
> 
> I would trade almost anything on the Clippers to get Darko Milicic as the replacement for Kandi; I would trade Wilcox, Q, Miller, and their 1st if meant getting Milicic and a few backups. He is all that Kandi is not, so youcan figure he'll soon be an all-star.


Yes, I know that Kandi did play basketball before going to the U of P. I simply stated that it wasn't the concentration of his life which you clarified.

As far as not having the understanding for the game, I strongly disagree with this. For a 7ft foreign center he is actually amazingly gifted at most moves that define a "true" center: patented shot, presence in the middle, ability to forsee offenses and get blocks.

He is still raw, primarily because of the Clippers coaching staff, and IMO if he lands with a coach like Pat Riley or under the tutelige of Kiki Vandawege then the skies the limit.

Regarding Okafor: he is not 7ft and will probably come into this league as a power forward rather than a center. I may be incorrect in this statement, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Regarding Kandi being past his peak after the age of 28-29: Again, this is not possible since his development has a unique measure since he came to "organized ball" late in life and had insufficient coaching up until this point. Allow Kandi a coach like Riley that specializes in teaching big men the game as well as a decent and true weight training progam and I think you guys will be amazed at what a player like kandi could accomplish.

Lastly, regarding Kandi being a cancer in the locker room that influenced others with his contract situation: IMO, Sterling created this atmosphere rather than Kandi by not providing sufficient value for him based on the prior season and effectively forcing him to accept a 1yr qualifying offer. Subsequent to this other Clipper players have publically declared that they are playing for themselves this season rather than the team. This was broken 1 month ago on ESPN when Baylor and Sterling had a meeting with these players. When Sterling allows these many players to think more about their contracts and less about the team (which is human nature) then you cannot be surprised with the result and use Kandi as a scapegoat.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Cmon guys, I don't know how much Clipper basketball you watch, but everyone knows Kandi is a joke, period.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: OOPS!!!!*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL!

I don't think he looks old and worn out. I think he and every other Clipper's player looks tired of the same old same old with Sterling.

Everyone of your players is looking to leave LA, excluding maybe Odom and Magettie, simply because of management. There is even a new rumor circulating that Brand may do what Kandi did and accept a 1 yr qualifying offer this summer simply to become an unrestricted free agent in 2004 rather than risking Sterling matching any offer this summer.

This to me shows where the real problem lies at the very top with Sterling and no one else.

By the way, most Clippers Fans were singing his praises and development last year. Yet, all of a sudden because he is disgruntled with management, he sucks? I don't think so. He and every other player that has been wronged by Sterling may very well be a cancer to your team this season. But, he as well as these other players will flourish elsewhere IMO.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> Cmon guys, I don't know how much Clipper basketball you watch, but everyone knows Kandi is a joke, period.


Nice statement. But, I watch quite a bit. Were you calling Kandi a joke last season when he showed how much development he has had?


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> 
> 
> Nice statement. But, I watch quite a bit. Were you calling Kandi a joke last season when he showed how much development he has had?


I damn well was... sorry! talking about Kandi pisses me off. He is unprofessional, HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE GAME OF BASEKETBALL, and YES he is a cancer..... I have seen almost every game Kandi has played in the NBA, and he just doesn't get it.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> I damn well was... sorry! talking about Kandi pisses me off. He is unprofessional, HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE GAME OF BASEKETBALL, and YES he is a cancer..... I have seen almost every game Kandi has played in the NBA, and he just doesn't get it.


Being pissed off is okay. I have NBA League pass, so I have also seen alot of his games. In fact, I have watched him since he played at the University of the Pacific since I went to UC. Davis.

Personally, I think he gets the game and is simply itching to leave LA. Perhaps, morally, this is wrong. But other players have publically declared the exact same thing on your team. It was just that Kandi declared it first because he was so shocked with the way that Sterling did business and ran his team.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> I damn well was... sorry! talking about Kandi pisses me off. He is unprofessional, HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE GAME OF BASEKETBALL, and YES he is a cancer..... I have seen almost every game Kandi has played in the NBA, and he just doesn't get it.


And why were you saying that Kandi was a joke when he actually started playing very well last season?


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## madmaxmedia (Feb 4, 2003)

*Here's the thing-*

Okay, Clipper fans may overreact a bit about Kandi, he is a pretty good center actually if you measure him up against the other centers in the league. But that ain't saying much-

He may be a 'good' center, but he is a MEDIOCRE basketball player. You can argue his "gifted" offensive skills, but in the end he has a really bad FG% for a inside player. He shoots in the low 40's for his career (including last year), which is approaching Allan Iverson territory. At least Iverson has an excuse- he carries the load on his team and is the focus of the other team's defense. With that UGLY one-handed turnaround shot I don't think the FG% is going to improve either. The only reason why it's "patented" is because no one else would ever shoot that way, it's not a fundamentally sound shot.

He played better over the second half last year, but he still does not produce consistently night to night, and is basically the antithesis of Elton Brand (who plays hard and gets hustle points and rebounds just about every night). On the plus side, Kandi is a good defender (actually this is probably his best asset), and even does a creditable job guarding Shaq one-on-one (as good as anyone else at least.) WHEN his heart is in the game, he can play with some feistiness which is good too, he then tends to rebound better.

BUTTTTTT- Any team that gives him max dollars is going to sink their franchise. Unless you owner is Mark Cuban, you can only dole out 2 (MAYBE 3) max-level contracts on your roster. Other teams have KG, McGrady, Duncan...and one of your big guys is Michael Olowakandi? Forget it. Even Antwawn Jamison is a better buy than Kandi at that salary level.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> 
> And why were you saying that Kandi was a joke when he actually started playing very well last season?


Sorry for the short responses... I'm actually at work.

Here is the deal with Olowakantbe. 
He is 7'0 and somewhere near 300+ pounds, and he is the LAZIEST big man in all of basketball... I'd rather have Mad Dog Madsen. He never helps on defense, he isn't intimidating, he doesn't work hard, he TURNS THE FREAKIN BALL OVER EVERY OTHER TIME DOWN THE COURT, he fumbles the ball everytime he touches it, HE SHOOTS A HORRIBLE PERCENTAGE, he gets called for 3 second defesive violations at least twice a game, he is never expecting a simple pass going towards the basket where he could just slam it down, takes way too many shots, he can't pass out of the double team...........

All this said, people who don't actually watch him see his stat line (and conveniently ignore his turnovers + FG%) only see 13 points and 11 rebounds, to me thats not even good, but the thing they miss is that those rebounds aren't hustle boards, they're boards that bounce right to him or from a missed free throw. He never gets any offensive boards. I hope when you shoot that many times you can get 13 points a game, especially when you're only 5 feet from the basket.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Here's the thing-*



> Originally posted by <b>madmaxmedia</b>!
> Okay, Clipper fans may overreact a bit about Kandi, he is a pretty good center actually if you measure him up against the other centers in the league. But that ain't saying much-
> 
> He may be a 'good' center, but he is a MEDIOCRE basketball player. You can argue his "gifted" offensive skills, but in the end he has a really bad FG% for a inside player. He shoots in the low 40's for his career (including last year), which is approaching Allan Iverson territory. At least Iverson has an excuse- he carries the load on his team and is the focus of the other team's defense. With that UGLY one-handed turnaround shot I don't think the FG% is going to improve either. The only reason why it's "patented" is because no one else would ever shoot that way, it's not a fundamentally sound shot.
> ...


Sorry, I was reading another thread...

Great points Max. But, I never stated that he was gifted offensively. I stated that he had a center's frame, attributes and potential gifts that can be cultivated on a different team and by a competent coaching staff. And yes, he does have a 43% career shooting percentage but again I stress that his development and understanding of organized basketball has been slower than others because of his background and lateness to the game.

Next, you state that his shot is fundamanetally unsound when in fact it was worked on with him and stressed when Kareem was on the coaching staff. If you hate the shot then you have to argue with one of the greatest offensive weapons ever in the game.

And yes, he did play better over the second half of last season and has not consistently produced this season. But, no one on the Clippers has. Miller? Odom? etc..... I blame Sterling's atmosphere and environment for this rather than anything else. Why all of sudden does a center that was making so much progress last season suddenly become "inept". He, and other players, are just looking to leave is the reason. Nobody is playing for the team and everyone is playing for themselves. When this happens the blame has to rest with management.

Giving Kandi close to MAX dollars will happen simply because when given the opportunity team will always try and build a franchise around the center. IMO, most in the league understand that Kandi's potential cannot be measure by what he has done on the Clippers. Give him a great coaching staff, a fair contract and a team oriented approach that makes sure the center toaches the ball a fair number of times and I really believe that we will all see a different Kandi. Just my opinion though...


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry for the short responses... I'm actually at work.
> ...


Good points. But I watch him play and very rarely believe in stat lines.

I really felt that his progress was amazing towards the end of last season and I cant honestly assign too much weight to this season because of Sterling.

If he does horribly next season and on a new team and in a new environment then I will absolutely agree with you. But, until then I cant simply because of how the entire clippers team is playing and your owner.


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## madmaxmedia (Feb 4, 2003)

*Building a franchise around a center-*

Fair enough, of course these are all just our opinions! 

I can't speculate on what Kareem has or hasn't taught him. But Kandi loves that turnaround baseline one-hander, and I know Kareem never shot like that. That's always been Kandi's shot, and it just looks awkward. If he doesn't shoot it perfectly, it's not going in (that's more important than how it looks of course.)

As far as building a franchise around a center, look at the league. In the last few years, teams have been overpaying centers mainly in an attempt to combat Shaq. You don't pay Todd McCullough $35 million dollars or whatever because you think you're going to get a ton of production out of him.

But Shaq is only going to play a couple more years IMO (my guess of course.) He plays hurt a lot, and has really nothing letft to prove. After Shaq retires, the NBA landscape is going to change.

Teams like Sacramento and Dallas won't look like donuts anymore with holes in the middle. It's not like you HAVE to have a center to guard Vlade Divac or Shawn Bradley. And it's not like signing Candi means he will eat these other guys for lunch, only Shaq is really that dominant. Overall team talent is going to be much more important. What's the use of building a team around the center position when that center shoots 43%?

Name one team that can afford to pay a guy like Candi a max-level contract. They all suck. Candi is not going to LIFT any of those teams.


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## madmaxmedia (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Here's the thing-*

One more small point-



> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> Great points Max. But, I never stated that he was gifted offensively. I stated that he had a center's frame, attributes and potential gifts that can be cultivated on a different team and by a competent coaching staff. And yes, he does have a 43% career shooting percentage but again I stress that his development and understanding of organized basketball has been slower than others because of his background and lateness to the game.


But you did say this-



> As far as not having the understanding for the game, I strongly disagree with this. For a 7ft foreign center he is actually amazingly gifted at most moves that define a "true" center: patented shot, presence in the middle, ability to forsee offenses and get blocks.


"Amazingly gifted" to me means good or very good (at the very least).


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Building a franchise around a center-*



> Originally posted by <b>madmaxmedia</b>!
> Fair enough, of course these are all just our opinions!
> 
> I can't speculate on what Kareem has or hasn't taught him. But Kandi loves that turnaround baseline one-hander, and I know Kareen never shot like that. That's always been Kandi's shot, and it just looks awkward. If it's not perfect, it's not going in (that's more important than how it looks of course.)
> ...


I agree, these are just our opinions.

The news about Kareem developing Kandi was reported consistently by all papers and ESPN when Kareem was still on the coaching staff. And yes, Kareem never shot like that but that is the shot that Kandi worked on with him - it wasn't there when he was at U of P. I will find old articles later for you...

I agree though that the NBA landscape is going to change. But teams still attach a lot of value to having a good center in the middle. This is clearly a strength for any team. It may not be stressed as much anymore due to the lack of quality big men, but when it is available a team will always jump on the opportunity. Case in point: your example Todd MacCullah. I would not attach that much value to him, but look at NJ and Philly falling all over themselves the last few seasons to keep exchanging him....

And it is not just about teams that can pay Kandi the max, it is about teams that can also pay kandi close to the max.

BTW, San Antonio can easily pay Kandi the MAX and they do not suck...


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Here's the thing-*



> Originally posted by <b>madmaxmedia</b>!
> One more small point-
> 
> 
> ...


LOL!

By me stating amazingly gifted in most moves that define a true center I was implying that he is not yet a true center that is living up to the possibilities....

Hence, I did not say that he "was" a true center that is amazingly gifted in all moves that define the position.

I will be clearer in the future.... LOL!


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*WHAT'S UP????*

Was that OLOWANTDOATHING sitting on the Clippers bench tonight?

What's up with that? Do you suppose he wants to make an attempt to get back in the good graces of the Clippers since no one is beating a path for his services? OR, did Baylor insist that he show up in order to collect his paycheck?

IMO, go back where you were --- we don't want you, Kandi!!!!


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: WHAT'S UP????*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> Was that OLOWANTDOATHING sitting on the Clippers bench tonight?
> 
> What's up with that? Do you suppose he wants to make an attempt to get back in the good graces of the Clippers since no one is beating a path for his services? OR, did Baylor insist that he show up in order to collect his paycheck?
> ...


Welcome back Dynasty Raider. Long time no debate. I totally understand the frustration that Clipper's fans must be facing at this point and time. And if I was a Clipper's fan, I to would flip out at Kandi eventhough Sterling should be hanging from the arena rafters by now.

But, again, you have your facts wrong and have not been reading ESPN and HoopsHype.com. The latest updates have been that no team will offer Kandi the MAX this summer but that Denver, San Antonio and Miami are very interested in his services.

In fact, one week ago, it was reported in a link at HoopsHype.com that some Texas newspaper as well as the NY Post had stated that Kandi had already illegally agreed to sign with San Antonio this summer for less than the MAX. I would have posted the link at the time but I thought this forum had become dead when you stopped debating here.

All in all though, I completely agree with you: it is time for the Clippers and Kandi to part ways so that both parties are happy.

As for sitting on the bench: I agree that Baylor probably told him to or that he is just pumping himself up with added PR. But, at this point, after such a wash of your season, who really cares.

More importantly, do you still like the chances of Sterling signing up your core to long-term contracts. And do you feel that this may be altered if he lands Lebron James in the lottery? 

Specifically, if Sterling lands the most exciting pick that will guarantee a filled arena every night, then do you still see him using significant coin to start building a playoff caliber team and bringing in Jeff Van Gundy as previously desired by you?

:grinning:


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Hey There ...*



> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> 
> 
> Welcome back Dynasty Raider. Long time no debate. I totally understand the frustration that Clipper's fans must be facing at this point and time. And if I was a Clipper's fan, I to would flip out at Kandi eventhough Sterling should be hanging from the arena rafters by now.
> ...


Good to hear from you.

I don't have a lot to say about the Clippers lately, but couldn't resist when I saw that Olo guy. I'm sleepy so I'll make this short because I know how you believe that I run from your debates. BTW, good to see that you didn't desert us :grinning: 

If I was a GM, I wouldn't spend any money on him. As for SA being the team --- I find that so hard to believe. But, they've been in the game a lot longer than I have and have access to a lot more info. I personally can't see him fitting in with Duncan and if he thought the Clipper fans were hard on him --- he ain't seen nothing yet until he meets Duncan's raft. I know, I know, but Duncan seems so mild. I say, that for as long as TD has been waiting for a championship AND after watching Kandi's career, if they bring him in and he is exactly what he's portrayed himself to be -- a bust --- TD will be pissed off at management.

I think Olo would be afraid to go to Miami, Riley is no joke and he doesn't play. Kandi's lazy *** wouldn't last a week.

No, I don't read the things you mention, and don't believe half of it anyway.

Yes, I think we will sign Brand, Maggette, and Lamar. I don't think we will get Lebron. Re: Jeff VanGundy --- I still hold out hope, but as I was watching the game tonight between Toronto -- it dawned on me that Lenny Wilkins needs to retire and so that is another place Jeff might consider going to coach with VC --- don't you think?

Whatever, I know he has already made up his mind based on the conversation between he and the other commentators about him not being around with them next year. And, Jeff is so giddy nowadays.

QUESTIONS: (And I might not see your answer until tomorrow night) Is Falk the Agent for both Brand & Maggette. Doesn't he usually drive hard deals for his guys that are favorable to both? Isn't he considered shrewd? Do you think there was something in the works when Brand came to the Clippers from Chicago?

That's a lot to ponder. Check you later, Jerry. Good nite!!


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Hey There ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> Good to hear from you.
> ...


Good to hear from you to. :laugh: And I would never desert you guys. Just didn't want to harp on the continued losing even without Kandi in the line up and a coaching change. :laugh: 

You have alot of interesting opinions. First, Kandi to San Antonio: it makes sense because Robinson is retiring and Kevin Willis is 40 yrs old. Hence, their most pressing need is to fill the Center spot this summer since Duncan wishes to stay at his natural position of Power Forward. 

Also, San Antonio has exceptional pieces already in place with Parker, Bowen and Ginoblii and therefore simply wish to take some low post and rebounding pressure off of Duncan. Furthermore, the Spurs are flush with Cap Space this summer and by signing Kandi to less than the MAX, they have a significant amount left for another free agent this summer. Rumors are that they will also make a run at Maggette. 

So, San Antonio places themselves in a position to sign two very servicable players to keep building around Duncan rather than just throwing the MAX at someone like Jason Kidd (who isn't even needed IMO with Tony Parker fitting their system so perfectly already).

Regarding Kandi being lazy: Again, all I can say is that most players look lazy in losing situations and while playing for Sterling. For many yrs the Clippers have affectionately been known as the black hole of Player Motivation. Furthermore, last yr, Bulls fans justifiably complained about Brad Miller and how lazy and out of shape he always seemed (i.e. showing up for camp very out of shape and seeming lazy throughout the losing season). 

Their complaints were justified from what I witnessed of his play while on the Bulls. But, once Miller landed with the Pacers he seemed to become a much more dedicated and hard working player in order to help the team continue winning. This is generally always the case with players leaving a bad team situation where losing is the norm and entering an environment more conducive to winning. 

Another example is Tim Hardaway being traded from the Warriors to the Miami Heat in 1996. At the time, Fans and management became sick of Hardaway's off the court drama, accussations, demands and moods. Yet, when he landed with Riley and the Heat he effectively became almost a completely different player within Riley's half court system. 

My point is that players effectively get better after leaving certain situations and we have to simply wait and see how Kandi does next season since playing for the Clippers is not an effective barameter of success and potential. :laugh: 

Regarding signing your core: I would love to see it happen but again I really don't see Brand being locked up to a long term deal there. His agent made comments to the public months ago that he was afraid of Brand signing any offer this summer since the Clippers had matching rights. Hence, it doesn't sound to me as if Brand and his agent see a future with the Clippers beyond the 1 yr qualifying offer this summer.

Regarding: Lebron James - I still believe that Sterling will always be in the cycle of revolving exciting young picks to fill the arena. Hence, if the Clippers do luck out and get the top pick, I simply believe that will negate any hope of Sterling ever building a playoff caliber team with long term contracts, solid coaching and a talent base that is complimentary rather than solitary pieces on the floor.

Regarding David Falk: he is a great agent but you really do give him too much credit in this luxary tax environment. It is not the players and the agents that currently have the power. It is the teams and the league which are subjected to unreasonable restrictions. Look at Miami: do you really believe that Riley would be subjected to this losing season if he wasn't constrained with an already high pay roll and an "after-the-fact" luxary penalty. Hence, teams have never had better bargaining power over agents and players than they do right now. 

Furthermore, Falk or any other agent, has not driven truly "hard deals" for any rookie scale player like Maggette or Brand. They are both currently on rookie scale contracts that are pretty much determined by what position they were drafted. Therefore, I have no clue what your question means since their is no legit precedent for Falk creating great deals for rookie scale players whose contracts are about to expire in a luxary tax environment where intense financial constraints are placed on everyone.

Glad to have you back.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Hey There ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> I don't have a lot to say about the Clippers lately, but couldn't resist when I saw that Olo guy. I'm sleepy so I'll make this short because I know how you believe that I run from your debates. BTW, good to see that you didn't desert


No problem Dynasty. Please respond to my debates whenever you like or when you get a free moment from speaking about Kobe's endorsements and other things on the Laker's board. :laugh: 

Anyway, great to debate with you again about the Clips. I really hope that I am wrong in all my assessments and that Sterling changes his ways. But, after 19 yrs of him at the helm doing the exact same thing, I really don't see it happening. :sigh:


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Hey There ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> I think Olo would be afraid to go to Miami, Riley is no joke and he doesn't play. Kandi's lazy *** wouldn't last a week.


This may very well be. But, after what Coach Riley did with Rod Strickland last season, I wouldn't be surprised with him making anyone into a very hard working player at their position.

Specifically, Riley signed 36 yr old PG Rod Strickland last season and made him work his *** off. As a result, Strickland played amazingly well the entire season, followed Riley's lifting and cardio program to the letter and not once had any problems of indiscretions while living in South Beach (which is a miracle).

Therefore, Kandi may be scared to sign with Miami. But, Riley would still love to get his hands on the Center and mold him into some form of a legitimate and consistent low post presense.

Lastly, if Kandi is scared to go to Miami then why did he tell the Sunsentinel newspaper, after the Clips last game in Miami, that he would love to play in Miami and for a coach like Riley that truly knows how to coach Big Men?

:yes:


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## madmaxmedia (Feb 4, 2003)

*LeBron*

Right now the Clips are the 2nd or 3rd worst team, so will have almost as good a chance as any of landing the top pick.

If we do, I could very well see DS using it as an excuse to not make a significant effort in signing Corey and Lamar.

OTOH, I could see Lebron/Lebron's agent threatening to never play for the Clips if they pick him. Signing some guys would help improve the scenario for anyone coming to LA. They could find a top coach, sign at least Brand plus one of the 2 wing guys, draft Lebron, we'd all be looking forward to next season. 

Do it the wrong way (Sterling's way), and things could still fall apart hard even if we do get lucky in the lottery.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

The Clipps are 4th worst right now. Also Lebron only has one blacklisted team, the Cavs. I want Darko though, especially because Odom is finally awake.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Hey There ...*



> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> 
> 
> Lastly, if Kandi is scared to go to Miami then why did he tell the Sunsentinel newspaper, after the Clips last game in Miami, that he would love to play in Miami and for a coach like Riley that truly knows how to coach Big Men?
> ...


Sounds to me like he's trying to drum up some interest --- market himself.

Reading between the lines, sounds like KANDI doesn’t have as many options as he had once thought. Seems he now WANTS to play for the Clippers. Wasn’t it him saying he DIDN’T want to play for them that caused the fans to boo? And then he said, let them boo all they want to, I won’t be playing here, or something like that. Below is an excerpt from an LA Times article:

Asked if he would consider re-signing with the Clippers, he said, "All my options are open. I've never, ever been one to close doors. I'm open to whatever might be out there. The summer is right around the corner and there are so many things to consider. The team we have is the most talented I've ever been on and one of the most talented teams in the NBA."

Sure sounds like a turnaround to me.

KANDI SPEAKS AGAIN


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Hey There ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> Sounds to me like he's trying to drum up some interest --- market himself.
> ...


LOL! We already discussed this situation 1 month ago and I told you that as the summer approaches, Kandi and his agent will do and say everything right. Go read our old posts where you didn't believe me when I initially told you that Kandi would be cleaning up his image, marketing himself and saying everything perfectly until he lands with a new team.

As for him not having many options and possibly returning to the Clips - you have to be kidding right? :laugh: 

What he is doing now is what is done by every free agent in the history of the NBA - saying that all options are open before he enters into the summer. The truth of this entire yr, however, defies this since both Clips management and Kandi have wanted a seperation for a very long time as proved by ESPN, HoopsHype, Insider sites as well as quotes made by the parties dating back to when Kandi first signed the qualifying offer.

As far Kandi not having any teams interested - again you have simply choosen to ignore every article, news source and numerous quotes in making your assumptions. You are definately entitled to this since we all know that you are the "dreamer" and do not believe media reporting. Yet, at some point you have to stop "reading between the lines" of quotes made by someone that have been by every free agent since the dawn of time. 

This is what agents do - manage their client's best interests. And all the agent is doing now is telling Kandi to do exactly what I told you he would do months ago in order to show that Sterling is the one that doesn't take care of players. WE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS AND YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE ME THEN BUT NOW ARE SAYING EXACTLY WHAT I TOLD YOU - THAT KANDI WOULD MARKET HIMSELF :laugh: 

Teams interested in Kandi:

1. San Antonio - Local papers, ESPN Insider, HoopsHype, etc all say this

2. Miami - Local papers, ESPN Insider, HoopsHype, etc all say this

3. Denver - Local papers, ESPN Insider, HoopsHype, etc all say this

Good debate though.... :yes:


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Hey There ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> Sounds to me like he's trying to drum up some interest --- market himself.


BTW, Dynasty - you wrote this in reference to me saying that Kandi told the sunsentinel newspaper that he wants to play for Riley since you said that "he was scared to play for Riles."

Well, then why has Pat Riley been telling the exact same newspaper since last summer that he would love to pursue Kandi this summer if he has the available cap space? Is Pat Riley also trying to help market Kandi? :laugh: 

Why has Kiki (K-Money) been telling the Denver Post since last summer that Kandi is at the top of his wish list this summer and had dinners with him that could be characterized as illegal negotations during impending free agency? Is Kiki trying to help market Kandi? :laugh: 

Why has the San Antonio Press as well as the NY Post reported that Kandi may have already illegally agreed to sign with San Antonio this summer? Is San Antonio trying to help market Kandi? :laugh: 

BTW, IMO, the real reason that Kandi and his agent are stating that all options are still open is really because both the Clips and Kandi may agree to use Kandi as part of possible sign and trades this summer in order for the Clips to get compensation for Kandi and for Kandi to get a more lucrative contract.

What do you think?

:yes: :yes: :yes:


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

Dynasty Raider:

Below is the link to the thread where you and I already discussed that the agent would have Kandi enhance the rhetoric before the summer approached and you didn't believe me then that Kandi would become more marketable in order to show up your organization and owner. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Thread from February 28, 2003:

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=20754

FYI - all free agents will soon start doing and saying everything perfectly. Are you going to post a link to the LA Times everytime now that Kandi says he will not rule out any possibilities? j/k :laugh: 

Case in point of free agents uping the good behavior and rhetoric: go read the thread I started entitled "K-Money looking to raid Clipper's ship." Why all of a sudden is Elton Brand being so publically open and honest with reporters about his relationship with Kiki? 

FYI - Brand and Maggette said very nice things about Riley and Miami as well in the Florida papers when they last played in Miami. This is what free agents do..... :laugh:


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

I would love to sign and trade Kandi to Miami for their 1st and the necessary salary filler(s) (not including Jones or Grant).

As for Brand to Denver, I think at this point it's a likely sign and trade. And Maggette will go where the money is, but I have a feeling he may look for a trade to Chicago.

The only FA or RFA I want to keep is Lamar (besides Pike, Fowlkes and the role players who are FAs)...and I'll hope for Darko.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> Dynasty Raider:
> 
> Below is the link to the thread where you and I already discussed that the agent would have Kandi enhance the rhetoric before the summer approached and you didn't believe me then that Kandi would become more marketable in order to show up your organization and owner. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> ...


STOP BAITING


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> STOP BAITING


ClipShow:

Relax. I wasn't baiting Dynasty. We always joke around and go back and forth this way in our "debates"

It is not like I am insulting poster's occupations and educational levels in the EBB forum. :grinning: 

BTW, I am just posting here. Why don't you post in this forum as well and debate the points I make. Other mods have PMed me asking me to post in their forums and spark some debate. Yet, you seem to try to be driving me away from this forum and not debating any points I make. 

If you are the moderator of this board and post every day in the EBB forum about the war, then why not discuss Clip's ball here as well. How far we've come since you first sent me that PM thanking me for finally bringing good debate to your forum.

But, I will definately try and stop "baiting" Dynasty for the future....

Dynasty Raider: I am sorry if you feel that I have been baiting you. I felt that I was just responding to points that you brought up first. But, I will work on my way of responding in the future.

:laugh: :grinning: :yes:

PS. Four Season Hustler has been in this forum the last 2 days and he obviously didnt think it was baiting or atleast didnt say anything. But, if Dynasty and I have already discussed a point, then I will find a new way to bring up this fact. Thanks for the tip.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

ClipShow:

I really would like to understand the rules of this forum and not anger, bait or insult anyone.

Can you please tell me if any of the posts by Clippers Fans in the following thread constitute "talking trash" or "baiting" in the Lakers Forum:

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12496

Thanks,
JerryMaguire :angel:


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Let's Bottomline this ...*

Jerry, let me bottomline this for you ....

the point IS, Kandi will not be a Clipper next season and that makes me extremely happy. I find the fact that he will publicly state that the door is still open for him signing with the Clippers to be hilarious. Especially, given the fact that he chose to disrupt the Clippers' drive for the playoffs last season for his own selfish reasons.

Regarding the Agent's plan? Hah --- that too is hilarious. If this is the same Agent that instructed him to start his plea during the playoffs when the Clippers couldn't legally discuss his contract, then this Agent is a fool just like Kandi. Is this the same Agent that instructed him to sabbatoge the Clipper's season with his attitude and suddenly becoming injury prone so as not to truly injure himself for other teams. And, NOW, he wants to use the strategy of other supposedly good Agents? You don't hear or see Falk doing that **** with his players.

Kandi looks and sounds like an *** and I still say, whatever team signs him to a contract will regret it.

That, is the bottomline as it relates to Kandi.

BTW: I think 'clip' knows his posters well enough to know when you are entering a danger zone. Clipper fans do not like Kandi and you know this --- thus his warning. I'm sure you can understand that, right?


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Let's Bottomline this ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> Jerry, let me bottomline this for you ....
> 
> the point IS, Kandi will not be a Clipper next season and that makes me extremely happy. I find the fact that he will publicly state that the door is still open for him signing with the Clippers to be hilarious. Especially, given the fact that he chose to disrupt the Clippers' drive for the playoffs last season for his own selfish reasons.
> ...


Woooooo Dynasty Raider! You are clearly taking this exchange way too seriously now. :laugh: 

I am not trying to stir things up. I honestly felt that we were having a very civil exchange about Kandi and the Clips Org. I never meant to rile you or ClipShow up though. I seriously apologize if this debate got out of hand.

We are both definately entitled to our opinions about the Clipper's situation and players, past and present.

I do, however, have some more facts regarding your latest post about Kandi, his agent, the playoff run and the Clips. Yet, I feel it is probably best to let this debate end now.

No offense intended. In the future, I will try and avoid the danger point of taking these debates too far.

I hope, however, that we will engage in other debates about the Clipper's situation - at your discretion of course.  

Good luck to the clips this summer.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Let's Bottomline this ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> BTW: I think 'clip' knows his posters well enough to know when you are entering a danger zone. Clipper fans do not like Kandi and you know this --- thus his warning. I'm sure you can understand that, right?


You may definately be right about this. Yet, I really felt that this board as well as this forum allowed people to have differing points of views about players and teams and encouraged debates especially when backed up with facts and sources. 

Other mods and posters have sent me PMs praising some of the very points I have made in this forum as well as the fact that I always back up what I say in debates with statistics and sources.

But, if this caused a danger zone here than I deeply apologize. I really felt that I was simply debating as I do elsewhere - with some humor thrown in after I was first engaged with humor rather than facts. Yet, I can understand if you and "Clip" felt differently.

Good luck to the clips.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> ClipShow:
> 
> I really would like to understand the rules of this forum and not anger, bait or insult anyone.
> ...


That thread was started by me and it was not a bait --- merely a question, that is STILL valid might I add. I wonder who pointed THAT out to you.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Let's Bottomline this ...*



> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Other mods and posters have sent me PMs praising some of the very points I have made in this forum as well as the fact that I always back up what I say in debates with statistics and sources.


Hmmm. I bet I know exactly who they are. AND, why don't they join you HERE in dialogue? Why don't you visit their forum --- on occasion and dialogue with them? Not that I don't enjoy your OCCASIONAL input.

Just curious though --- name those posters and mods so that I can have confirmation of who I believe they are. Why are they hiding? Do you know? If they appreciate your points so much, why not publicly acknowledge them. Believe me, I know the answer to all of these questions. You are just being USED and patronized. 

Anyway, Jerry. There's really nothing more to discuss about my Clippers (or your secret support system) this season. Let's pick it up again when decisions start to be made. Maybe then, your secret admirers will join you here, publicly in dialogue.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Let's Bottomline this ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> Hmmm. I bet I know exactly who they are. AND, why don't they join you HERE in dialogue? Why don't you visit their forum --- on occasion and dialogue with them? Not that I don't enjoy your OCCASIONAL input.
> ...


Dynasty:

Please relax. I think that you are getting way too parnoid now. One of the individuals that PMed me was the moderator from the atlanta and philly boards - his name is a group of symbols. Also, people from the other boards PMed me praising my posts and references. So, I promise there is no conspiracy against you or anyone "just using me".

BTW, ClipShow even sent me a PM 3 weeks ago praising my posts and thanking me for finally bringing good debate to this forum.

I was just posting and debating Clippers basketball here and trying to back up my points with facts, sources and stats. I never meant anything intentional against you personally. I simply thought that we were both using this forum to discuss basketball which is what I understood as the point of this forum. I am really not sure when this went off course in your mind.

Just talking ball here - that's what I'm all about. But, I will stay out of this forum from now on and let you discuss whatever you like.

Good luck to the Clips. They are actually one of my favorite teams in the league and that is why I watch them on league pass and have opinions about the org and players, which I try to back up with proper debate.

No hard feelings. 

PS. Nobody attacked you in PMs or egged me on against you. They simply all stated that my posts were well informed and backed up with facts, sources and stats. I was just talking Clips ball here. I made my way to other forums as well but they are mostly dead.


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> That thread was started by me and it was not a bait --- merely a question, that is STILL valid might I add. I wonder who pointed THAT out to you.


Nobody pointed out that thread to me. I read the majority of the board just like most posters do here.

And you clearly baited and riled up posters with some of your responses regardless of whether or not your question was valid (i.e., telling someone that he is rambling and asking if he has been drinking) :laugh: 

The reason I brought up that thread is because the humor that I engaged in this forum mimicked the humor that you first started here as well as on the lakers board. :laugh: 

You can dish it out as evidenced by numerous posts. But, then you take everything so personally when it is done to you. Were my debates not valid? Did I not back up everything I said with stats, facts and sources? Did I not use humor with you only after you started ignoring my posts and just thowing humor out instead of continuing perfectly valid debates? 

Read this entire forum down and you will see that I engaged in basketball debate here which you kept shying away from and then stating thing about your modem and stuff - yet you had time to post on the Laker board I might add.... In the future, if you wish not to participate in discussions about your team then just say that. 

But, please relax with the paranoia..... :laugh:

Good luck to the clips. The forum is all yours.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Paranoia??*



> Originally posted by <b>JerryMaGuire</b>!
> 
> 
> Nobody pointed out that thread to me. I read the majority of the board just like most posters do here.
> ...



Do you know Pacer87?


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## JerryMaGuire (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Paranoia??*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know Pacer87?


No, cant say that I do. :laugh: 

Here's my question now for you: when are you going to discuss basketball again in a basketball forum? :laugh: 

Hang in there....:laugh: 

:angel: 

PS. Don't worry so much about me debating you anymore. :laugh:
Also, if it helps you at all, someone sent me info on another site that has some really good posters as well. So I will be spending the majority of my time there now instead of talking clips ball here. :grinning: 

Good luck to the clips.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Jerry MaGuire where's the new forum you mentioned? This one is half interesting and half dead, so I need another half interesting one to post at.


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## (-) 0 † § I-I () † (Jun 11, 2002)

*I am not hiding........*

I hace read this, just never felt a reason to join in. I read almost all these posts. Dynasty I respect you and your opinions alot, and same with JM. I think Dynasty has an optimistic look at things, and JM has a different approach. Both are valid, the reason I think JM is a good poster is because 1. He posts valid points 2. He listens to the other side 3. He gives full responses with all his opinions. I can understand you felt his humor was baiting but I saw it as you 2 being friends, I just thought you took it with a grain of salt.

In this post I was not taking a side, I was just giving an outsiders look in. I can understand that Dynasty feels like JM is baiting but I can also see from being a fan of other teams that all these points are valid too. 

Just my 2 cents...

BTW I have had no affiliation with JM before just liked his style of posting, JM if they dont want ya here, your welcome at the Hawks and 76ers board.


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## Sicky Dimpkins (May 28, 2002)

Bull fan here. If Kandi walks, why wouldn't the Clipper consider Kaman?

P.S.: I was interested in the Okafor comments of TheGoods and Jerry MaGuire. I don't want to get the thread off track so if you are so kind as to reply, it could be on the draft forum if that's better. 

6'10" but with incredible length.
Could play the 5 at least in the East at times.

Okafor pre draft measurements 

I have no personal knowledge about him but was interested in him as a project pick for the Bull. Where did you hear he had a bad attitude?

Okafor declared ineligible by NCAA 

Thank you.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Appearently, the reason Kandi was trying to "keep his options open" by saying that he could remain with the Clippers, is because he's seeking a sign and trade to Miami (that's his latest spot).


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## madmaxmedia (Feb 4, 2003)

*Another forum*

realgm.com has a pretty good Clipper board too.


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## Dave-C. (Jun 25, 2002)

> Appearently, the reason Kandi was trying to "keep his options open" by saying that he could remain with the Clippers, is because he's seeking a sign and trade to Miami (that's his latest spot).


You got any detailled infos on that ?

I dont see a good option on our (heats) roster to make a sign & trade for Kandi.

Maybe A.C. whose contract runs out in 2004 (4 millions).
But i dont think you guys would be that crazy and make that.

BTW what do you guys think Kandi is expected to earn ?


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Kandi will ask for 10.5 mil base which is the max, but will settle for as low as 9.2 base to my understanding. As for the specifics, I think AC would be the player involved, but I think it would also involve a 1st from Miami, and with the weakness of this year's draft I could see a #1 protected 2003 Miami 1st being involved. There's also the possibility of future picks, but Riley likes to assemble a core a draft role players later, so I see that as less likely. So barring Miami getting #1 I could see this trade:

A.C. and Miami's 2003 1st (#1 protected) for Kandi. However since this trade puts Miami over the cap, one of two things must happen. Either Kandi must take a contract starting at 8.5 mil with more incentives, or the Clippers have to also give cap-relief, I think Kandi will have to concede (because if there isn't a sign and trade he isn't going to get payed more than 7 mil).


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## Dave-C. (Jun 25, 2002)

You really think Kandi's value is that high ?

I thought after this season (poor games , injured) his value would drop too about 5 millions as long theres no bidding war from two teams.

I really doubt any team except of the nuggets would give him more than 7 millions.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

The average NBA starting center makes 7.2 mil and Kandi currently makes 6.37 mil, he won't accept less than 8.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Wait Goods ....*



> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> The average NBA starting center makes 7.2 mil and Kandi currently makes 6.37 mil, he won't accept less than 8.



Hey Goods:

Given what you're saying, and based on Kandi's most recent history --- exactly what options does he have if he's not offered 8 Mil? He's not exactly in a margining position. Of course, he can always go to Italy, leaving the NBA and going home to England.

Last I heard, the Clippers made their last best offer. Don't look for teams to offer him much more and when they don't, he'll take what he can get.


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