# Lenny needs to go but he wont



## knicks235 (May 20, 2003)

i supported lenny when he was hired. I actually prefered him over fratello( i was a minority there). i supported lenny throughout the season leading to this season. but now i have had enough. Watching todays game against the celtics down by 4 with about 27 secs left, celtics with the ball, you would think foul right? well thats what marbury thaught. Marbury kept looking at the knicks bench to see a sign from lenny to foul.....no sign, the clock dwindled to about 15 untill there was actually any movment. by that time its too late and lenny has shown he does not fit the knick formula.


who's out there? no one which is why he will stay knick coach. So, another year of mediocracy for us


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

he was day dreaming, put him in a retirement home already. Lenny is an old hag. he cant get mad. he wouldnt get mad if someone killed his kids in front of his face. he would just do his little giggle thing in the interview

TT shows up 2 games straight at least. and nazr had 20 and 18. .........man i miss van horn...........:grinning: 

Houston looks hurt again


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

This team needs new direction. This team is too good to be playing the way they do. Offensively they're fine...really they are. It's that they don't know how to play defense or to play D consistently. There just too many lapses on the defensive end that's mind boggling. Just little things, like boxing out, not getting beat down the court on missed shots, cutting off the lane after the dribbler beats the perimeter defender. If the Knicks just paid a modicrum more attention to those things listed above, they would be so much better. It's not a talent issue, it's an effort issue, or lack of effort issue.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

H20 will probably never be the player he was...he has degerastive cartlige and that doesnt bode well..

i didnt watch tonights game...Why did sweetney only play 7 minutes???

I dont understand lennys rotation...


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

I know that Lenny is a ****ing moron, he was the coach for the Raptors for like three crappy seasons. He never has a play and seems to laid back sometimes. 

On the other Hand this is not really Lenny's fault, i feel that Lenny probably thought that MArbury has played enough games to know what to do in this situation and they did not need his signal to fould someone. This is a pretty obvious play and Marbury should know what to do without Lenny telling him.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

How the hell is it Lenny's fault? Marbury is an NBA Point Guard. A point guard is supposed to be like a second coach on the floor. Marbury should have known to foul. What the **** is he, a robot? He needs to look over to the coach, as if the coach is Marbury's personal caluclator? The shot clock is off. You're losing. That means foul. What a pathetic basketball IQ. At least Marbury is showing why Kidd turned the Suns and Nets into winners, while Marbury turned both into losers.



> H20 will probably never be the player he was...he has degerastive cartlige and that doesnt bode well..


Allan Houston FG%: .473
Allan Houston 3pt%: .500

Jamal Crawford FG%: .393
Jamal Crawford 3pt%: .347

Tim Thomas FG%: .389
Tim Thomas 3pt%: .345

Allan Houston is averaging 9.9 ppg and 1.7 assists in 19 minutes. Tim Thomas is averaging 9.4 ppg and 0.9 assists in 25 minutes.

What the hell are you on? Yeah, Houston is totally "not" the same player he was before.



> i didnt watch tonights game...Why did sweetney only play 7 minutes???


9 mins, and it should be obvious. Playing Sweetney next to Freeway Mohammed would be a defensive disaster. It should also be fairly obvious that Jerome Williams has been ahead of Mike Sweetney in the rotation for the entire month of December.

Baker also played 5 minutes, my guess is because he wanted retribution against his former team. Otherwise, Sweetney probably would have gotten 14. They could also be trying to show off Baker for a trade, because he's done nothing all year and his agent was making noise a week ago.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Houston looks hurt again





> H20 will probably never be the player he was...he has degenarative cartlige and that doesnt bode well..





> What the hell are you on? Yeah, Houston is totally "not" the same player he was before


ThinMan, Go pick an argument with someone your own size...nice stats but have you ever heard of something called lateral quickness and mobility???


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Truth..*

You and I have been saying this all along. H2O will NEVER be what he was except in spurts. We need a sweet stroking sf that plays d and has a willingness to hit the boards..someone that plays hard. TT shows spots...as he always has....but just is not consistent enough in any area except shooting. Look for a huge trade this summer for a real 5. If Nazr puts up good #s for the rest of the season, look for a combo of him and TT and/or Penny to bring a top center or some other TOP 3 or 4. There is a lot of chips to use this summer. I personally crave the ungettable T. Chandler and, yes, I still want Wally. Marbury, Crawford, Wally, Sweets, and Chandler would be nice, eh?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Alfa,If i had to fault Zeke,and who knows the reality,it appears he is very reluctant to give up KT,and I can not understand why.Dont get me wrong,KT is solid.But hes not getting any younger,nor any better....

When the Bulls were realing,Chandler may have been available.He still is not starting which says alot.We desparately need a week side defensive player like Camby.Where i am not sure you are right is who in the world can we get at the 5???..The problem right now is our guards do not stop the penetration and Naz is not a shot blocker...

Lets keep in mind that Zeke hjas turned around a sinking ship.last year we were 11-18 with an 88 million dollar payroll.Our payroll is bloated,but we have close to 60 million coming off the books in the next two years..


As for H20,hes 34 and has chronic knee problems..Its degenerative....Hopefully he can be our zone buster,but anything more is asking way too much..


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

Houston may not have the quickness but he is still a pretty deadly shooter. Shooting ability is about the last thing that a player loses as a skill. Just look at Reggie Miller he can still drop shots and so can Allan Houston. Allan was never a good defender or rebounder, but he has one of the nicest looking Jump Shots in the league and every team needs a good shooter.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Totally agree with you KG..But if anyone thinks a 34 y.0 shooting guard with degenerative cartlige is going to play 35 minutes per,its wishful thinking at best....

All i ever said is he will probably never be the player he was...And it would be tuff for his D to get any worse....

Of course,you have to take anything the THINman says with a grain of salt


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Look OLDMan, I don't want to report your baiting to a moderator. Hypocrisy will only take you so far (though you have been riding that wave for quite a while it would seem).


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I responded to penny,as he said H20 looked hurt


> H20 will probably never be the player he was...he has degenarative cartlige and that doesnt bode well..


you felt the need to write


> What the hell are you on? Yeah, Houston is totally "not" the same player he was before


when you go crying to the mods,make sure you preface it with this....:laugh: 

Thinman,you dont bait me with inflammatory comments like "What the hell are you on",i wont bait you..Remember only the first shot is free:yes:


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

As if there were any mods to cry to.

I think we should nominate Penny Hardaway to moderate this forum and shake things up a bit. Whoever Fordy is he either died or he's asleep at the wheel. I fear this forum is verging on irrelevance.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

you have to pay to moderate....no deal!


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

He he, they asked me if I were interested and I had the same reply. And so we have Fordy, whoever he is.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

You have to pay to moderate???

Thats an interesting concept...


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> I personally crave the ungettable T. Chandler


Alfa,have you watched Tyson play??

I just watched the Nets Bulls game..I retract everything i said..hes pathetic..30 minutes,1 point,got lit up by Kristac,and looks LOST....Alfa,he makes TT look like Larry Bird..

And Curry isnt much better....

BTW,if Vince and kidd stay healthy you dont want to face those guys in the playoffs

rashidi is dead right..Thorn is one hell of a GM...

If you boil it down they ssentially,they traded Mourning,Atrain, and a maxed out Kmart for Vince Carter and the Clips first round pic which will not be protected next year...

Great move letting Kerry go and Kristac has game...


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> 
> BTW,if Vince and kidd stay healthy you dont want to face those guys in the playoffs
> 
> rashidi is dead right..Thorn is one hell of a GM...


I don't know, those are two pretty big, pretty maxed-out "ifs". 

Kinda like if we were to have somehow (and I know it denies the reality of the situation) tried to build our team around a maxed-out Camby and McDyess. Sure it _could_ be a great frontcourt, but do you bet the house on it?

But I know what you mean on a talent/chemistry level.

FWIW, I posted this on another board yesterday:

I agree NJ got a good deal for Vince, but I don't see how they are set up nicely by this move. They had a team that could perennially contend for the EFC, but they let Martin go, which killed that. Then Kidd has been a shell of himself, killing so much hope for anything positive in the near term. Now in this Vince deal they additionally gutted their front court. 

Meanwhile, these past years they were losing money even while winning. The one good thing they had going for them was a young Jefferson and 3 1st rd picks. If Kidd could get healthy and they could move him for youth they'd be well poised to rebuild. Instead they take on a brittle maxed-out former star, while dumping their front court and most of their chances to replenish their depleted team (2 draft picks). 

This is just sooo risky for them. Kidd and Vince both have to be considered significant health risks, and they don't sell seats even when they go to the finals, so what they hell is a part time Wince with a one legged Kidd gonna do for them? Sure they'll sell a few more seats this year as a sort of high flying novelty act, but long term, if this experiment fails, they will have blown a great opportunity to rebuild, and nobody will go to games. And even if it succeeds I really doubt they can get themselves "deep" again in talent and standings for several years - and Kidd's window of opportunity is not all that long now. 

I agree I'm being a bit pessimistic here but that's how I see it, I really don't see the big picture upside for the Nets. Just another wrong guy at the wrong time, if you ask me.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Oak, I love the Carter signing as brittle as he is.For the Nets,it made all the sense in the world

From a business,bottom line perspective it was a no brainer.Simply,carter will put bodies in the arena,something Kmart can not do.I am not saying the Nets with carter are better,but if Carter can elevate every now and then,hes worth the price of admission.I read somewhere that sales are up 40% since the signing.At an avg price of $100 per,if another 3000 people show up,thats 300k per game,plus all the extras...

Supposedly Carters first home game is sold out..Thats 1 million extra in revenue...If you like the sound of the cash register opening and closin,you have to LOVE this trade..

From a basketball perspective,they kept the best pick,the clippers first rounder which is unprotected inn 2006..i think.Thats a very valuable pick

They dumped Mourning,Atrain and Ewil.Ewill is the only guy who was playing.And guess what? KMART is NOT a max money guy,and Kiki is an idiot.He coughed up those 3 draft picks when he never had to.

True its a gamble,but the deal is all upside,very little downside.The picks they traded were Denvers and Philly,but i think protected.

And they still may trade Jason Kidd.I thinkThorn is the best in the business.Portland would probably give up SAR and telefair,and at this point Randolf may be available.dallas deparately misses Nash and who knows what Nellie would do.

BTW,have you watched them play?Kidd,RJ and VC may be the most entertaing trio in the NBA....

Oak,I LOVE that move by Thorn


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Well I guess I can't argue witht he sales, if that's what they are, though I really don't get it myself. I was a season tkt holder for many years, selling most tkts and going to a few choice games and all the playoffs. I NEVER chose to go to a regular season Raptors game to see VC. Just not my cup of tea.

As for what else Thorn will do, I guess we'll wait and see.

Like I said, I think they got a good deal for Wince, but I just don't get what their direction is. They aren't going to the ECF with this squad, but with Kmart they might have. So are they out to turn over the whole squad and rebuild on the fly a la Isiah? Or are they trying to keep things together as much as possible?

The thing is Jefferson is their guy, and he's shown he can still put up numbers without Kidd. But the team has shown that inspite of his numbers they don't win without Kidd. I just don't see how they fill out their squad while keeping Kidd, nor do I see how they win without him.

So I'll say this, if you and Rashidi are right, and Thorn has it in him to make them ECF contenders again, then yes, he's worth his weight in gold. But if they carry three maxed out guys and go nowhere, instead of three maxed out guys who go to the ECF, then how impressed can I be?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> They aren't going to the ECF with this squad, but with Kmart they might have


Oak,Kmart was the fault of the Goldman partners.They were looking strictly at bottom line.Ratner was against it,but he felt it was over his head as he wasnt a basketball man.And Thorn feels max guys are stars who draw fans.To be honest,Kmart is not worth max money plus 3 first round draft picks...

The ECF??? If Kidd stays healthy as well as Carter,that team is NO joke.Kristac is getting time,playing well and he schooled Chandler last night.And he is a mean European..

Keep in mind that Kittles has been injured the whole year,so with Kmart,they have ZERO perimeter game and no halcourt game.They do with Vince

They also have DRAFT picks.The one they retained is the Clips first rounder,non lottery protected in 2006.That is a REAL pick.And the Clips second rounder.And they did trade away their first round pick,but I cant recall for what or who.....

Thorn will add a big,possibly Dalembert with the Clips pick.He is a great GM.I think he STOLE Vince.You realize come playoffs if we payed them,TT would cover RJ and Crawford would cover Vince....


not a pretty thought


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> Thorn will add a big,possibly Dalembert with the Clips pick.He is a great GM.I think he STOLE Vince.You realize come playoffs if we payed them,TT would cover RJ and Crawford would cover Vince....
> 
> 
> not a pretty thought


LMAO, no it's not.

You make a good case, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Just looked to me like they went 50% in one direction (rebuild) then decided to high tail it back to win now. If Thorny pulls it off (again) and makes them for real then he is the man.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Just looked to me like they went 50% in one direction (rebuild) then decided to high tail it back to win now


I honestly think they were going to rebuild...And Thorn even said he was shocked that he landed Carter...It was just to good a shot to pass up...

Think about it...ATrain somehow fell out of the rotation..Mourning was poison..Ewilliams is a decent player,good bench guy..The two draft picks were the result of Kiki pulling a Laydumb and they are protected....

I hate to admit it,but i look foward to watching the Nets...


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> 
> I hate to admit it,but i look foward to watching the Nets...


Saturday night 7:30. 

Hopefully Wince wont get hurt between now and then....


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

LOL..WINCE 

I like that...thats gonna be a GREAT game


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