# GT: Clippers vs. Suns



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

<center>







vs.







</center>
*
<center>Sat Jan 8, 2005
7:30 Pacific *</center>


<center>




































Rick Brunson/Bobby Simmons/Corey Maggette/Elton Brand/Chris Kaman






































Steve Nash /Joe Johnson/Quentin Richardson/Shawn Marion/Amare Stoudemire


Notes: The Clippers will have to face the 28-4 Suns on Saturday. Recently the Clippers improved their record to 16-15. This is the first of 10 very difficult games for the Clippers. If they want to win they must stop the explosive offense of the Suns with good defense.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

I still dont understand the suns sucess with the lineup they have. I think it comes down to knowing how to defend their offense. Hopefully dunleavvy can come up with a plan.

No doubt nash is better than Brunson, however after that...

simmons > Johnson
Magette > Richardson


Then, i dont know how marion is going to guard brand in the low post. If they start marion, that will be the key matchup. If marion is on him, id go to brand every time down the court. Also, although kaman will have trouble guarding amare off the dribble, he will be able to guard his post movies, and on the other side of the token, if kaman sticks to hook shots instead of going to the basket, he can shoot over amare on the other end. 

If the clippers can contain the fast break of the suns, believe it or not, records aside, i think the clippers have a chance. 

Id really like to see them put their "big" lineup out there against these guys. Kaman/Moore/Brand at the same time.


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## Suns38 (Dec 8, 2004)

IIRC, Marion guarded Wilcox in the last game. This game, I expect he'll start out on Kaman, which is a big mismatch on both ends. Marion's used to this sort of thing by now, of course, and he'll get plenty of double-team help.


I don't see the point in the Clippers going big. They'll get all the advantages of a big lineup with their regular lineup.


Anyway, I think the Clips will get plenty of good shots, and they'll probably score at least 100 points. The question is whether they can keep the Suns from scoring 115 or 120.

The way the Suns have been playing this week, they'll probably rack up another W, but you never know...


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

I dont think the coach will put marion on kaman...that would be crazy...even if they double team, then kaman will just hit the open guy. Perhaps he will start a bigger lineup.


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## Suns38 (Dec 8, 2004)

D'Antoni put Shawn Marion on Yao Ming for about five minutes in the Houston game. Marion's also spent entire games guarding Nowitzki and KG.

Like I said, the Clips should get plenty of good shots, but the Suns are going to run the same rotations they always do.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> simmons > Johnson


Absolutely 100000000000% wrong.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Is that so? Must be a matter of personal taste then. I was just going off of stats, and success compared to team wins. 

Points:
Johnson: 14.9
Simmons: 15.8

Rebounds: 
Johnson: 5.4
Simmons: 6.0

Assists:
Johnson: 3.4
Simmons: 2.8

Steals:
Johnson: .63
Simmons: 1.42

FG Percentage:
Johnson: .426
Simmons: .492 (even after a slump)

FT Percentage:
Johnson .776
Simmons: .865


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Johnson would be a near 20 ppg scorer if he weren't on a team with so many weapons.

I love Simmons, but reality is someone is gona toss a near max contract this summer to JJ, Simmons is not that kind of player.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Again, i judge players on actual performance and stats mixed with impact on team overall performance. Not on how much someone would be willing to pay them.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> Is that so? Must be a matter of personal taste then. I was just going off of stats, and success compared to team wins.
> 
> Points:
> ...


Uh oh and Johnson is in the top 10 in 3pters made and 3pt% too.

Steals are totally meaningless as JJ is a great defender.

JJ can also play PG.

He is sooo much better than Simmons isn't even funny.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

who cares what his 3P percentage is if thats all he does? Lets say he averages 3 three pointers a game, but no field goals. Does that make him a better player? No because he averages less points. You have to look at the stats as a whole. One might say, oh, but he has more skills, or oh its because hes on a team with so many weapons, thats why he doesnt score 20. Last year the team didnt have amare scoring lots of points, didnt have nash scoring, didnt have nash diming. He didnt average 20. Still doesnt matter, because what we are talking about is THIS GAME TODAY, THIS YEAR. Until now, simmons has done more for his team than johnson. Thats why i say he is > Johnson. Im not saying johnson has less skills, not saying johnson will get a lower contract, not saying what jjj could/couldnt do on a different team. Just talking stats and odds. Can jj have a better game than simmons? Sure. anyone can, even chalmers. But again, i was just talking this seasons stats until now. 

Dang, the game is at 7:30. Right in the middle of my chargers playoff game. i wish they kept it at 1, that would have made a perfect sports day for me. 

I did one of those email ralph lawler a questions today. HOpefully they read it on the air. Asking about who they think we should pick up in the free agency next year.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> who cares what his 3P percentage is if thats all he does? Lets say he averages 3 three pointers a game, but no field goals. Does that make him a better player? No because he averages less points. You have to look at the stats as a whole. One might say, oh, but he has more skills, or oh its because hes on a team with so many weapons, thats why he doesnt score 20. Last year the team didnt have amare scoring lots of points, didnt have nash scoring, didnt have nash diming. He didnt average 20. Still doesnt matter, because what we are talking about is THIS GAME TODAY, THIS YEAR. Until now, simmons has done more for his team than johnson. Thats why i say he is > Johnson. Im not saying johnson has less skills, not saying johnson will get a lower contract, not saying what jjj could/couldnt do on a different team. Just talking stats and odds. Can jj have a better game than simmons? Sure. anyone can, even chalmers. But again, i was just talking this seasons stats until now.
> 
> Dang, the game is at 7:30. Right in the middle of my chargers playoff game. i wish they kept it at 1, that would have made a perfect sports day for me.
> ...


Sorry Yama, but I just think it's rather homerish to say Simmons > Johnson because it's just not true, period. Listing all these stats and so called facts doesn't change that fact is, Simmons is not > Johnson. If we could trade Johnson for Simmons right now, I'd get Bobby a plane ticket.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Just a note that many teams try so hard to exploit the mismatch in Marion but it doesn't translate into success.  If that's the case, Suns should have lost more games by now. 

Marion should be an all-star this year. His contribution to the team is so underrated. Without Marion, Suns won't be able to play this small ball. Marion allows them not to sacrifice so much in defense and size. 

Having said this, every team that plays with Suns will bring their A game so I am expecting a good game rather than a blow out. 

Clippers will play UP against the best record team in NBA right now.

Jimmy


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Will be a very interesting game. I expect another great game By Maggette


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> Sorry Yama, but I just think it's rather homerish to say Simmons > Johnson because it's just not true, period. Listing all these stats and so called facts doesn't change that fact is, Simmons is not > Johnson. If we could trade Johnson for Simmons right now, I'd get Bobby a plane ticket.


You dont get it do you? What is the title of this thread? What is the subject? The title is the game of the suns. vs. the clippers. Its the 04-05 Season. We put here matchup advantages, disadvantages, analysis, etc. Are we talking who is the better community service worker? Are we talking who coulda shoulda woulda be the better player if they were on the charlotte bobcats? Are we talking who deserves a better contract? NO. Were talking about this season, THIS game. And so far this season, simmons has put up better numbers, and has had more of a direct influence in his teams wins/losses. Bottom line. Simmons has a horrible game, clippers more often than not lose the game. That means their sucess is more times than not contingent on his performance. JJ has a bad game, suns win anyway. Do you see my point yet? Im not debating who would win in a one on one contest. Im just saying until now, simmons > JJ stats wise this year...im saying that simmons has more of a direct effect on the clippers outcome than jj does to the suns. Were not saying hey, would jj do better on the clippers than simmons? Why not? Because all that matters is what IS, not what could be, in this discussion, which once again is about the clippers vs. the suns in the 04-05 nba season.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Who will they put on magette? Q since he knows him the best? Marion? JJ? Who did they put on him the last game, i didnt watch it...


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## Volcom (Mar 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> 
> 
> You dont get it do you? What is the title of this thread? What is the subject? The title is the game of the suns. vs. the clippers. Its the 04-05 Season. We put here matchup advantages, disadvantages, analysis, etc. Are we talking who is the better community service worker? Are we talking who coulda shoulda woulda be the better player if they were on the charlotte bobcats? Are we talking who deserves a better contract? NO. Were talking about this season, THIS game. And so far this season, simmons has put up better numbers, and has had more of a direct influence in his teams wins/losses. Bottom line. Simmons has a horrible game, clippers more often than not lose the game. That means their sucess is more times than not contingent on his performance. JJ has a bad game, suns win anyway. Do you see my point yet? Im not debating who would win in a one on one contest. Im just saying until now, simmons > JJ stats wise this year...im saying that simmons has more of a direct effect on the clippers outcome than jj does to the suns. Were not saying hey, would jj do better on the clippers than simmons? Why not? Because all that matters is what IS, not what could be, in this discussion, which once again is about the clippers vs. the suns in the 04-05 nba season.


That was confusing.  

So your saying a good Bobby Simmons performance means more to the Clippers than a good Joe Johnson performance means to the Suns? 
Well maybe, but Simmons doesnt have Amare, Marion, Q and Nash playing with him. Doesnt make Simmons >> Johnson IMO.
Stats dont really mean much in this case because there's only so many to go around when your playing with that much talent.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

What do you mean stats dont mean anything? Thats the only thing we are talking about. What wins a game? Points...in other words, stats. Who makes more points? Simmons. 

Again, for the 1000'th time, WE ARE NOT DEBATING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS SEASONS OUTPUT AND RESULTS by the two players, because in this game, that is all that matters! Lets say the clippers play the lakers. In that game lets say magette scores 40 while bryant scores 20. In that game, you can say, magette > bryant. Are we saying kobe has less skills or is the worse player than bryant? No. We are talking about that game. 

This year, there are a lot of SG's out there averaging more points, playing in more games than vince carter, since his numbers are down. Does that mean that those players have more skills than carter? No. But if you were to analyze the matchup before the game if their teams would play each other, you would have to put the other person as winning the matchup since they have consistently put up more points/rebounds, etc. than carter. 

I also am not saying jj is DEFINATELY not going to outplay simmons. ANything is possible. I just made a prediction, based on stats up until this point. You guys seem to want to make it into something more that isnt there.


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## Volcom (Mar 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> What do you mean stats dont mean anything? Thats the only thing we are talking about. What wins a game? Points...in other words, stats. Who makes more points? Simmons.
> 
> Again, for the 1000'th time, WE ARE NOT DEBATING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS SEASONS OUTPUT AND RESULTS by the two players, because in this game, that is all that matters! Lets say the clippers play the lakers. In that game lets say magette scores 40 while bryant scores 20. In that game, you can say, magette > bryant. Are we saying kobe has less skills or is the worse player than bryant? No. We are talking about that game.


Ok so your just predicting Simmons is going to outplay Johnson in this game and not that he is the overall better player. Got ya I was just trying to understand your statement man...


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Interesting starting lineup. Kaman is benched, while Brand is put at Center. Ross is in and guarding Nash.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Not pretty so far. The Suns are out running the Clippers. Brunson had a few assists already and Brand had 4 monster blocks.

Kittles just got subbed in.


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## atowndawill (Nov 16, 2004)

suns are blowing them out of the water. 33-14 after one.


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## Volcom (Mar 28, 2004)

Damn..the Suns are 10-16 from 3... Q-Rich 4 of 5 from 3. 63 points and it aint even halftime yet...


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

69 points for the suns at half. :sigh: 

Suns are hitting shot after shot while the Clippers are just trying to force things. Clippers just can't stop the Suns, too much offense from them.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Johnson has a bunch of assists out there.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Johnson has a bunch of assists out there.


Ya but Simmons is clearly better.

:greatjob:


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

arenas, why try? It is a factual impossibility to refute my statement because it was based on this season and based on stats up until this game. Even the other guy finally realized that i was not trying to say one was a better player than the other...i was just discussing stats.

Anyway, i just came upstairs because i am so depressed about the chargers choking the game away just now. I was switching back and forth to the clipper game, my first time watching the suns.

This is the perfect personell, the perfect system, the perfect coached team. This reminds me of the clippers with miles, mccinniss, etc. when they almost made the playoffs. This style of basketball, just with more skill than that clipper team. THIS is what i want the clippers to run. Look at the clippers. when they get a TO or a rebound, they walk it up the court even when they have numbers. This suns team fast breaks everything possible, as did the clippers in those days. (remember every time they played the mavs, it was like 120-116?) I wish the clippers would develop this kind of ball again. I know they cant with jaric and brunson, but hopefully they can with livingston next year. 

Another thing that is reminisent of the clippers that year is the three point shooting...just again, on a bigger scale. Remember in those days we had Q and piatkowski jacking it up and making quite a bit. Now we have no 3 point shooters. I think brunson is our best 3 point shooter, FG percentage wise. 

The one thing the clippers should have eploited from the beginning as i said is big on small. I have no idea why they wanted to match up size wise to start the game. Just give the ball to kaman and brand and let them go. Even amare's defense, which is better than hunters is not very good down there. 

Anyway, anyone hear the qeustion of the night from the vieweres? Did they read my question? What was it about?


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Game over. 

One more thing i noticed...i thought everytime Q got the ball everyone was booing. However, lawler said they were saying "Quuuuuuuuuu" Which was it? Was he just trying to be gracious?

Kaman was great down low in the few minutes he got. 

The simmons johnson matchup was for the most part even, with simmons perhaps having the better overall stats for the game:
Johnson: 23pts, 3TO, 0Steals, 6assists, 5 rebounds (0 offensive)
Simmons: 22 points, 2TO, 1Steal, 4Assists, 11 Rebounds (5 offensive).

Brunson tough time shooting the ball, but had 9 assists in not that many minutes.

Martin played solid i thought, he already is over chalmers on the depth chart.

Chalmers tried to keep his 1.7 layups per game missed average up, with 1 missed layup in 2 minutes of play. 

I didnt hear any question from the viewer so dont know if they read my question...i had a shout out in there to this message board, so i was hoping they would read it on air.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

One more thing...he had an off night i guess, but i wasnt impressed with amare. I think he would only be averaging those points in this system. Heck, wilcox could probably average 20 in his place as well. I dont like his defense, rebounding, ft shooting, jump shooting, and he just overall was not good tonight. Oh well. Still would have liked to have him on the team than whoever else the clippers picked that year ahead of him. 

Suns i dont think will make the finals. I say they finish the season with at least 18 losses. Somewhere along the line, one of their main guys will get injured. If its nash, they are screwed. if its anyone else, they still will have a hard time keeping it up.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Bobby Simmons shot awful from the field.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

About as bad as amare, eh?

But, he pulled a rip hamilton, and was 10-10 from the free throw line. 

Clippers, outside of their three 7 footers, were TERRIBLE shooters tonight. Dont know what got into them. elton 6/16 magette 6/18, brunson 1/7. That coupled with their stupid turnovers, theres no chance to beat many teams, let alone the team with the best record in the nba. 

If thoe guys there shot just under 50%, and the clippers had like 5 less turnovers, clippers might have won the game, since that right there is about a 25 point swing.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> .
> 
> If thoe guys there shot just under 50%, and the clippers had like 5 less turnovers, clippers might have won the game, since that right there is about a 25 point swing.



:laugh: :laugh: 

We had this game so under control , not even funny. It was basically cruise control after the first quarter already.


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> i wasnt impressed with amare.


I was.

How many NBA "superstars" do you know will be sitting there laughing at his missed free throw, as "bad" a game as he was having, and as young as he is?

They only care about winning, and not whether or not they look good individually, especially since each and every one of the starters are proven scorers.

I personally think that's a testament to their coach.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

hes not a superstar yet. And you like him laughing that he air balled a free throw? Maybe people with a sense of humor would appreciate that, but most coaches in the league might get pissed off at such an attitude over a missed shot, no matter the score., and espcially if overall they were already having a bad game. Coaches like competiveness. thats why you see dunleavvy coaching off the bench down the the last second of all the games, no matter if the clipps are getting blown out, or if they are blowing out someone.


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## TheClipSHow11 (Jul 22, 2004)

Amare's game wasn't too impressive saturday night. But his respect and sportmanship was....... he had a monster dunk on elton brand...... while most in this league would stand over and show the defender up....Amare acted like he has done it before - he was a professional and got down court to play D. That was refreshing to see from such an up and coming star..... With an attitude like that - he will become a winner....... Brunson looked like a 50 year old playing d on nash?? i hope his ankle is feeling better - dmart ran the point better than rick saturday night.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

For shooting definately. But i was still happy with brunsons 9 assists in limited minutes.


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