# 10th place in the East in 2002-03: The Toronto Raptors!



## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

I mean, FELLAS! You're losing three dudes--Keon Clark, Chris Childs, and Dell Curry--because of payroll issues, and they're NOT getting replaced (unless you think "Nate Huffman" is an "NBA player")! Take a look at what this Toronto team looks like after Hakeem Olajuwon and Jerome Williams succumb to injuries ONCE AGAIN!

Starting lineup:

PG Alvin Williams (not a bad starting PG, but not a good one, either)
SG Vince Carter (should have a HUGE year)
SF Morris Peterson (a decent young player)
PF Antonio Davis (good but not GREAT, and he's way overpaid)
C Eric Montross (the worst starting center in the league, obviously)

Bench:

Lyndsay Hunter (this guy SUCKS, and he's your sixth man!)
Michael Bradley (didn't touch the floor last year)
Michael Stewart (didn't touch the floor last year)
Mamadou N'Dyaiae (didn't touch the floor last year)
Nate Huffman (uh, you're joking, right? NATE HUFFMAN?)
Chris Jefferies (why do people think these Fresno Staters are worth drafting?)

That is the WORST bench in the LEAGUE, by FAR! And, if Eric Montross isn't yr starting center when Hakeem goes down with the inevitable injury and is sidelined for a huge chunk of the season (and Hakeem turns FORTY YEARS OLD--40!--next season; he missed 21 games last year, 24 the year before that, 38 the year before that, 32 the year before that, 35 the year before that--HAVE YOU NOTICED A PATTERN HERE, FOLKS?), well, WHO IS? Jerome Williams isn't somebody you can't count on to be healthy, either--during his 6-year NBA career, the dude has started 48 GAMES COMBINED! Plus, he didn't exactly post good numbers last season when he WAS healthy!

FELLAS! I keep reading people in these forums around here stating that the Raptors are a "shoo-in" for the playoffs, and somebody earlier today stated that the Raptors would make the Eastern Conference Finals! RIDICULOUS! This team is looking at about 36-39 wins next year, tops! PERIOD! And that's pretty impressive, when you look at that roster!

And did I read on this Raptors board that the team was going to trade Eric Montross? FELLAS! Nobody is going to trade for Eric Montross! If they give you something for Eric Montross, it won't be anything good, that's for SURE! Eric Montross SUCKS!

IF I AM WRONG FOR THINKING THAT THIS RAPTORS TEAM IS LOOKING AT A TENTH PLACE FINISH AND A 38-44 SEASON--please explain why! Don't just say, "You're stupid, man, the Raptors are going to be awesome next season"--back it up! So the team is losing Dell Curry AND Keon Clark AND Chris Childs--who are they replacing these guys with? So far, they've replaced them with NATE HUFFMAN, who was playing IN ISRAEL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD (or, should I say, for the love of YAHWEH)! FELLAS! When you replace Dell Curry, Keon Clark, and Chris Childs with somebody named NATE HUFFMAN, you get WORSE, not BETTER! And we're talking about a team that BARELY made the playoffs last season, they were the #7 seed--and the ONLY REASON they made the playoffs is because a) the Heat got off to a GODAWFUL 5-23 start, b) the Knicks collapsed after Jeff Van Gundy quit, c) the Bucks inexplicably collapsed (and, DO NOT FORGET, the Raptors and Pacers BARELY beat the Bucks out for the playoffs ANYWAY), and d) the Wizards collapsed after MJ went down for the season (they were obviously looking like a playoff team before that happened, everybody seems to be forgetting that).

If the Raptors are going to be better than #10 in the East next year, PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY! Because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND how they are going to make the playoffs! And I REALLY don't understand how they're going to be one of the top 3-4 teams in the East! WHAT?


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## -inVINCEible- (Jul 22, 2002)

you forgot jerome williams


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## TO4LIFE (Jun 13, 2002)

Ok man...the Wizards collapsed, the Bucks collapsed, the Knicks collapsed, and the Heat Collaapsed...how come the Raptors don't get the same treatment as them?

The Raptors suffered a lot of injuries throughout the whole entire season. It took Antionio Davis 1/2 a season to get used to playing PF. You can't forget the end when we finally gelled together, and took the Pistons down to ONE shot which if it wasn't for Chris Child's stupidity we would have made.

Now lets get to the point of Childs. He was a fat out of shape slob for the first half of the season. And at the end of the first half what were the Raptors? Third in the east and on there way to becoming 2nd in the east. (I mean in the last strech of games before the All Star Break we even beat the Hornets....which is like cryptonite for the Raptors).

Sure Childs did play an asset in the winning streak at the end of the season and I am not denying that he is a good player...but lets be honest he is only a back up PG.

Now on to Dell Curry...I have to say I love this guy and it pains me to see him leave. You can tell he is a class act, and his 3 point shot is 2nd to none. We ARE loosing someone really good here and I fully admit that but to the best of my knowledge Hunter can shoot 3's and so can Dial who we BETTER resign!!

Now onto the main man of this off season....Mr. Keon Clark. I am sorry but he is not worthy of all the attention he is getting, he is not even worthy of 1/2 the attention he is getting this off season. All he is is a 6th man! And a 6th man who was barley in the running for the 6th man of the year award! He is a good player but if it wasn't for the lack of talented free agents this year nobody would even be talking about Clark. We are BETTER with him, but not that much better.

If Vince never went down on that horrible game against San Antionio (which we actually won, lol) we would have had home court advantage in the play offs. And don't have me that crap about how he came back and we still lost and the first game he left we started our winning streak because he was injured all those games that he was there and he was still acting as our go to guy.

A healthy Vince is something not to mess with.


Alvin: He is not the b est PG in the world I will admit but he has a heart of gold and considering that he played great last year and was injured as.......a healthy AW should be great.

Mo Pete: This guy is on his 3rd NBA season, and with the experience he got last year in playing without Vince and acting as a first option gave him a lot of confidence. He may actually be able to live up to that 2nd option that we have wanted him to be for so long.

AD: AD is absolutly amazing. he CAN'T miss that 10 foot jump shot. And he is a great leader. IF he does the same things he did on our winning streak with a healthy Vince...that'll be great.


I don't feel like going through the rest of the players since I'll probably just end up repeating myself....but a HEALTHY Raptors will get home court advantage in the playoffs...if we get mad injuries like last year we MAY be able to squeeze 8th.....if Vince gets injuried again, we'll be lucky to get the 10th spot.


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## g-dog-rice (Jun 27, 2002)

So who will make the playoffs in the east?


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Yes, Keon is gone. But you're forgetting Jerome Williams, and also that Huffman had 19 points 8 rebounds a game in only 27 minutes in Europe. I'm not saying he'll be that good at all here, but if he gives us 5 points, 4 rebounds in 18 minutes, fine with me. Plus Bradley and N'Diaye will get more minutes this year. Last year in the time that he was given, Mamadou looked calm and relaxed on the court, and he produced. If he's given adequate minutes this season, I definately think he could contribute consistantly to the team. Plus Bradley will get more minutes, and he seems very confident right now. If those 3 are given Keon and some of Hakeem's time of last season, they can definately combine for 15/10 at least IMO.

And you forget that we have Jerome Williams coming off the bench, who can guard the opposing team's 2,3 or 4. And also JYD will be playing a bigger role with Keon out of the picture. I think now he can give 8/7 a game, maybe that's a little bit of a stretch.

So if we can get 27/6/5 from Vince (I don't think that's a stretch), 13/10 from Davis, 12/6 from Alvin and 16/4/2 from Mo Peterson, and the rest of the team keeps contributing like I said abve, and I don't think that's much of a stretch at all, this team IS set for the playoffs.


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## raptors32 (May 19, 2002)

Thats pretty funny that you think the raps aren't going to make the playoffs, the funnier part is you posted it here. One queston, whats are starting line-up that got us into the playoffs last year???

Did you forget that our starting line-up that got us into the playoffs last year was missing a healthy Vince Carter. But your probably going to say that we lost Keon(mr. inconsistent), Childs and old man Curry and that we have no bench. But I look at it like this, a heathy VC is more valuable then acouple of inconsitent bench player (not including Dell who will be missed, not his D though  )

I think our starting line-up will look like this, but could be wrong...

Alvin Williams
MoP
VC
JYD 
AD

All the little haters out there seem to forget the caliber of player Vince is. They think he is a scrub, and just because he got injured he is no good anymore. They forget about the 50 point games, the olympic dominace, and try to down play his skills with references to bad defence. Why, I guess because they forget about his play before the injury and listen to little fat people on TV who will say anything to get attention.

Read TO4LIFE last paragraph and it tells it. A healthy team will be one of the elite teams in the East, but if Vince gets injured then they will struggle to make it in. 

robyg1974 seems to think our rookies won't contribute and second and third year players will be non-exsitent and won't have gotten better.

Jefferies
Bradley
Mamado
Collins

You have to remember that in order for younger players to develope they first need a spot on the roster and second, need to see alittle bit of floor time once and awhile. I believe one of our young players will be able to contribute off the bench this season, and thats all we need. One player besides Dream and Hunter who can produce off the bench.


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## Psubs (Jul 11, 2002)

<strike>Robyg1974 you're stupid man!:yes: Just because you said not to say it.</strike> 
Bye Childs, hello Hunter.
Bye Curry, hello Dial / more minutes for Mo Pete at SG and have Jeffries help at the backup SF.
Bye Keon, more minutes for JYD and Bradley.

The big one is VC. Before the losing streak, The Raptors were tied with Milwaukee for the Central division title only behind NJ.
So I guess with the departure Glenn Robinson, you think Milwaukee will finish 9th again.:no: 

I'll have to give you props for having the balls to come here and start this sh!t. 

Just watch Vince win the MVP next year.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Fellas!*

I like Vince a LOT. I ALSO think it's pretty hilarious how people have ALREADY FORGOTTEN how we all thought he was going to be a perennial MVP candidate LESS THAN A YEAR AGO. I'm talking about NON-Raptors fans here.

And I AGREE that Keon Clark is overhyped and on the verge of being overpaid. But STILL, the dude is NOT being replaced--and I'M SORRY, Michael Bradley and Mamadou N'dyaiae and NATE HUFFMAN (whoever the hell THAT is) are NOT going to go out there and "combine" to replace Keon! Those three dudes are NOT ready to contribute to a playoff contender! PERIOD!

And OKAY, I'll assume that Jerome Williams stays relatively healthy next season and starts at PF. Is there a worse starting PF in the NBA? NO! Go out there and find me a worse starting PF, please, before calling me an idiot.

So Jerome Williams is the starter at PF, Antonio Davis starts at C. Here's your starting lineup:

PG Alvin Williams
SG Vince Carter
SF Morris Peterson
PF Jerome Williams
C Antonio Davis

Not great, but not bad. But HOW ABOUT THE BENCH! Keep in mind that Hakeem cannot stay healthy and he will turn FORTY YEARS OLD next season. When Hakeem is out--which will be OFTEN--here is your bench:

Lyndsay Hunter
Eric Montross
Michael Bradley
Mamadou N'Dyaiae
Chris Jefferies
Nate Huffman
Michael Stewart

I mean, JESUS, people! Get with it! That is TERRIBLE! Terrible terrible TERRIBLE! How many big stiffs do you need sitting on yr bench? I just counted FIVE! Lyndsay Hunter is TERRIBLE! And he's your best player off the bench! What happens when either Alvin Williams or Vince can't play? What, you put Lyndsay Hunter in the starting lineup--and so THEN who is the first guard off the bench? YOU DON'T HAVE ONE! What happens when Jerome Williams gets injured? Either you move Antonio Davis to PF and start ERIC MONTROSS or you keep Davis at C and start, who, MICHAEL BRADLEY at PF?

That's just not going to work, people. The Raptors are having serious payroll problems--I wouldn't be surprised to see the team start shopping Antonio Davis sometime over the next six months (he is making a LOT of MONEY over the next four years, people), SERIOUSLY.

Here's my projected 2002-03 East standings, by the way:

1 New Jersey
2 New Orleans (finally, a homecourt advantage!)
3 Detroit
4 Philadelphia (they've really upgraded their defense this offseason)
5 Orlando
6 Indiana
7 Washington (assuming MJ stays relatively healthy)
8 Boston (the Vinny Baker trade will be a DISASTER)
---
9 Miami
10 Toronto
11 Milwaukee
12 Atlanta
13 Chicago
14 New York
15 Cleveland


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## Psubs (Jul 11, 2002)

Kenny Thomas
Samaki Walker
Horace Grant (too old)
Cleveland starting PF.
Washington's starting PF.
Seattle doesn't have a PF (Radmanovic is more of a SF and there's Drobnjak just average)

That's all I've got right now. But if you pro-rate JYD's stats with starters minutes, he's better than the above PF's.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Guess again!*



> Originally posted by *Psubs *
> Kenny Thomas
> Samaki Walker
> Horace Grant (too old)
> ...


Take another look at Kenny Thomas' stats from last season. PLEASE, Jerome Williams can't hold his jock.

Robert Horry starts at PF for the Lakers, not Samaki Walker. Obviously, Horry is vastly superior to Jerome Williams.

Pat Garrity was the starter at PF for Orlando last season, and he's obviously a better player than Jerome Williams. Garrity obviously isn't much of a rebounder, but he can shoot the HELL out of the ball from the perimeter, he's a nice fit down there. The Magic are on the verge of signing Keon Clark, but I'm not sure if Clark starts at PF, at C, or comes off the bench. Regardless, I think we all know that Keon Clark is better than Jerome Williams.

I happen to think that Darius Miles is going to start at PF, not SF, for Cleveland, and he's better than Jerome Williams, no matter how raw he is. Two other candidates to start at PF for Cleveland--Tyrone Hill and Jumaine Jones--are both better than Williams, too.

Popeye Jones is the starting PF in Washington, and he's significantly better than Jerome Williams.

And, you're right, I'm not sure who the starting PF in Seattle will be next year, but Vladimir Radmanovic played extremely well down the stretch, there's not a team in the league that wouldn't take Radmanovic over Jerome Williams.

The second-worst starting PF in the league next year SHOULD be Joe Smith, right? I SUPPOSE you could make the argument that Jerome Williams is a better player than Joe Smith--but I wouldn't make that argument, since, ultimately, I think Smith is the better player (for whatever that's worth).

And I wouldn't pro-rate Jerome Williams' stats TOO much--the dude is injury-prone as HELL, I doubt if he'll play more than 25 minutes/game next year.


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## raptors32 (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Guess again!*



> Originally posted by *robyg1974 *
> 
> 
> Tyrone Hill :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: and Jumaine Jones--are both better than Williams, too.
> ...


LOL, have you even seen JYD play? Your acting as if he's the worst player in the league. I'll tell you one thing straight up,

Tyrone Hill (lol,, I'm still laughing), Jumaine Jones, and Popeye Jones couldn't hold JYD's jock with all six hands. JYD brings something more valuable then,,,,well, that list of three doesn't bring anything,,, but if they did it wouldn't be the same. JYD brings his intensity and chemistry to this team, and it is his most valuable asset.

Another thing,,, Toronto doesn't finish behind Washington, Inidana or the Magic. Miami and TO will be in, and there is no way New Orleans finishes in 2nd.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

<b>"And OKAY, I'll assume that Jerome Williams stays relatively healthy next season and starts at PF. Is there a worse starting PF in the NBA? NO! Go out there and find me a worse starting PF, please, before calling me an idiot."</b>

Yes. On last year's Orlando Magic, Pat Garrity started as their Power Foward almost the entire year and he stinks up a storm. He has absolutely NO defense - NONE, which Jerome has an abundance of defensive presence wherever he has played.


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## Psubs (Jul 11, 2002)

Kenny Thomas sucks @ss, why do think Rocket fans are always trying to package him. I saw him play in Vince's Charity game.:dead: Michael Bradley would'veplayed better. I think he even went 1 for 5 and he made Ira Newble look like a starter.

Darius Miles is not going to play PF. First Chris Mihm would be their 7 foot PF (nice post moves), second Miles would be a SF so he can take advantage of his dribbling and driving skills.

Popeye and JYD are fairly similar. Go to NBA.com and do a player comparison. JYD has a higher ppg while Popeye has more boards.
Popeye has a better FT % but JYD's hustle is very valuable.

Every team needs a spark plug like Darrel Armstrong or Ben Wallace, JYD is ours and that's what he brings to the table.:yes:


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Psubs</b>!
> Kenny Thomas sucks @ss, why do think Rocket fans are always trying to package him. I saw him play in Vince's Charity game.:dead: Michael Bradley would'veplayed better. I think he even went 1 for 5 and he made Ira Newble look like a starter.


Rocket fans are always trying to package him because KT's coming off a great season and they're grooming Griffin as their PF of the future, KT's got trade value as he put up 14/7 in the West.

Also, Ira Newble *was* a starter last year, but I figure him to be out of Atlanta's plans because he wants too much money and Big Dog is in town.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Fellas!*

You know what? I'm going to post all of the stats from 2001-02 for the "worst starting PF in the NBA" contenders; here goes nothing:

Jerome Williams

68 games played (32 starts)
24.1 minutes/game
49.0 FG%
67.6 FT%
7.6 points/game
5.7 rebounds/game
1.1 assists/game
1.0 turnovers/game (1.10 assist-to-turnover ratio)
1.15 steals/game
0.37 blocks/game

Popeye Jones

79 games played (40 starts)
24.3 minutes/game (nearly identical to J.Y.D.)
43.7 FG% (quite a bit worse than J.Y.D.)
81.5 FT%
7.0 points/game (slightly less than J.Y.D.)
7.3 rebounds/game (quite a bit better than J.Y.D.)
1.6 assists/game
1.1 turnovers/game (1.44 assist-to-turnover ratio, better than J.Y.D.)
0.63 steals/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
0.24 blocks/game (quite a bit worse than J.Y.D.)

Kenny Thomas

72 71 34.5 14.1 2.2 5.0 7.2 1.9 1.18 0.92 2.0 0.96 
72 games played (71 starts)
34.5 minutes/game
47.8 FG% (worse than J.Y.D., but he got more attention from opposing defenses)
66.4 FT%
14.1 points/game (quite a bit better than J.Y.D. per minute)
7.2 rebounds/game (worse than J.Y.D. per minute)
1.9 assists/game
2.0 turnovers/game (a worse assist-to-turnover ratio than J.Y.D.)
1.18 steals/game (quite a bit worse per minute than J.Y.D.)
0.92 blocks/game (significantly better per minute than J.Y.D.)

Pat Garrity

80 games played (43 starts)
30.1 minutes/game
42.6 FG% (worse than J.Y.D., but he took a lot of long-range shots)
2.1 threes/game (42.7 from three-point range, arguably the best three-point shooter in the league)
83.6 FT%
11.1 points/game (slightly better per minute than J.Y.D.)
4.2 rebounds/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
1.2 assists/game (worse per minute than J.Y.D.)
0.9 turnovers/game (slightly better assist-to-turnover ratio than J.Y.D.)
0.75 steals/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
0.35 blocks/game (worse per minute than J.Y.D.)

Tyrone Hill

26 games played (26 starts)
31.2 minutes/game
39.0 FG% (truly awful for a post player)
65.0 FT%
8.0 points/game (worse per minute than J.Y.D.)
10.5 rebounds/game (about the same per minute as J.Y.D.)
0.9 assists/game
1.8 turnovers/game (a truly awful assist-to-turnover ratio)
0.65 steals/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
0.50 blocks/game (about the same per minute as J.Y.D.)

Jumaine Jones

81 games played (36 starts)
26.4 minutes/game
44.8 FG% (more of a perimeter shooter than J.Y.D.)
0.6 threes/game (31.0% from three-point range, not bad)
66.2 FT%
8.3 points/game (about the same per minute as J.Y.D.)
6.0 rebounds/game (about the same per minute as J.Y.D.)
1.4 assists/game
1.0 turnovers/game (better assist-to-turnover ratio than J.Y.D.)
0.93 steals/game (worse than J.Y.D.)
0.57 blocks/game (quite a bit better than J.Y.D.)

Chris Mihm

74 games played (60 starts)
22.4 minutes/game
42.0 FG% (pretty terrible for a seven-footer)
69.3 FT%
7.7 points/game (slightly better per minute than J.Y.D.)
5.3 rebounds/game (quite a bit worse than J.Y.D.)
0.3 assists/game
1.3 turnovers/game (one of the worst assist-to-turnover ratios I've ever seen)
0.24 steals/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
1.20 blocks/game (significantly better than J.Y.D.)

SO! Maybe Jerome Williams ISN'T the WORST starting PF in the NBA after all. Although KEEP IN MIND that Maurice Taylor SHOULD start in Houston at PF (since he's got that huge contract), take a look at HIS numbers from 2000-01:

Maurice Taylor (for the 2000-01 Clips)

62 games played (60 starts)
35.9 minutes/game (second on the team behind Lamar Odom)
46.4 FG% (awfully good for a go-to guy)
71.1 FT%
17.1 points/game (leading scorer for the Clips)
6.5 rebounds/game (quite a bit worse per minute than J.Y.D.)
1.6 assists/game
2.7 turnovers/game (really lousy assist-to-turnover ratio)
0.82 steals/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
0.77 blocks/game (significantly better than J.Y.D.)

AND, keep in mind that, if Orlando signs Keon Clark (as expected), Horace Grant SHOULD start at PF instead of Pat Garrity. And it's pretty safe to say that J.Y.D. is a better player than Horace Grant... RIGHT? Check it out:

Horace Grant

76 games played (76 starts)
29.1 minutes/game
51.3 FG% (pretty good!)
72.1 FT%
8.0 points/game (worse per minute than J.Y.D.)
6.3 rebounds/game (about the same per minute as J.Y.D.)
1.4 assists/game
0.7 turnovers/game (significantly better assist-to-turnover ratio than J.Y.D.)
0.75 steals/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
0.64 blocks/game (significantly better than J.Y.D.)

I don't know, IS Jerome Williams a better starting PF than Horace Grant? I don't know, it's pretty close.

Three more candidates for "worst starting PF in the NBA" are Joe Smith, Scott Williams (the new starting PF in Phoenix), and Vladimir Radmanovic (inherits the starting job in Seattle after the Vinny Baker trade); check out their 2001-02 statistics:

Joe Smith

72 games played (63 starts)
26.7 minutes/game
51.1 FG% (pretty good!)
83.0 FT%
10.7 points/game (better than J.Y.D.)
6.3 rebounds/game (slightly better than J.Y.D.)
1.1 assists/game
1.2 turnovers/game (worse assist-to-turnover ratio than J.Y.D.)
0.54 steals/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
0.82 blocks/game (significantly better than J.Y.D.)

Pretty bad, but STILL, he's better than J.Y.D. (not by much, though).

Scott Williams

41 games played (16 starts)
18.0 minutes/game
39.6 FG% (terrible)
73.2 FT%
4.9 points/game (quite a bit worse per minute than J.Y.D.)
5.1 rebounds/game (better per minute than J.Y.D.)
0.3 assists/game
0.9 turnovers/game (significantly worse assist-to-turnover ratio than J.Y.D.)
0.41 steals/game (significantly worse than J.Y.D.)
0.80 blocks/game (significantly better than J.Y.D.)

So OKAY, Jerome Williams is probably a little better than Scott Williams, fair enough!

Vladimir Radmanovic

61 games played (16 starts)
20.2 minutes/game
41.2 FG% (but he takes a lot of shots from the perimeter)
1.1 threes/game (42.0% from three-point range, that's very good)
68.1 FT%
6.7 points/game (should go up)
3.8 rebounds/game (lousy for a PF, worse than J.Y.D.)
1.3 assists/game
1.2 turnovers/game (assist-to-turnover ratio is about the same as J.Y.D.)
0.92 steals/game (about the same per minute as J.Y.D.)
0.39 blocks/game (better per minute than J.Y.D.)

Keep in mind that he really came on late in the season, so he'll be better than J.Y.D. next season, too.

So I STILL SAY that Darius Miles will be the starting POWER FORWARD up in Cleveland, but I'm in the minority around here. So LET'S SAY that Miles ISN'T the starting PF up in Cleveland, and that either Tyrone Hill, Chris Mihm, or Jumaine Jones IS. Just for the sake of argument. Let's say that it's, oh, Tyrone Hill. And LET'S SAY that Keon Clark DOES sign with Orlando, and that Horace Grant is THEN the starter at PF instead of Pat Garrity. And LET'S SAY that the Sonics don't come up with a power forward via free agency, that Radmanovic is their starter next year. Here are the worst starting PFs in the league:

22 Vladimir Radmanovic
23 Maurice Taylor
24 Joe Smith
25 Popeye Jones
26 Jerome Williams
27 Horace Grant
28 Scott Williams
29 Tyrone Hill (OR Chris Mihm, they're both TERRIBLE)

SO! As it turns out, Jerome Williams ISN'T the WORST starting PF in the NBA, either Tyrone Hill or Chris Mihm is (which is YET ANOTHER REASON why I think Darius Miles is the starting POWER forward in Cleveland, not the starting SMALL forward!). I'd say that Maurice Taylor is clearly a better player than Jerome Williams, and Joe Smith is clearly a little better, too. I'd say that it's VERY, VERY CLOSE between Popeye, J.Y.D., Scott Williams, and Horace Grant for the SECOND-worst starting PF in the league, but okay, fair enough, I'll say that J.Y.D. is better than Grant AND Scott Williams. I still think that Popeye is a TAD better than J.Y.D., but okay, I'll admit, it's close!

BUT! Jerome Williams is STILL one of the VERY WORST starting PFs in the league! STILL! He's NOT the WORST! So you guys WIN (sort of)!


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## SikHandlez24 (Jun 8, 2002)

Have you ever heard that stats don't tell the whole story.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Jerome Williams, the #26 starting PF in the NBA!*



> Originally posted by <b>IMX</b>!
> Have you ever heard that stats don't tell the whole story.


I HAVE heard that somewhere--is that from a movie?

I understand what you're saying, obviously, you make a good point. But it's not like stats are USELESS, you know?

Again, here are the worst starting PFs in the league, from my message above (assuming that Keon Clark signs with Orlando, which makes Horace Grant the starting PF, which moves Pat Garrity to the bench; that Maurice Taylor starts at PF for Houston rather than Kenny Thomas; that Radmanovic starts at PF for the Sonics; that Popeye Jones re-signs with Washington and starts at PF; that Darius Miles starts at SF, rather than PF, which is where I THINK he'll start, but I'm in a small minority here; and that Antonio Davis moves back to center, making Jerome Williams the starting PF):

22 Vladimir Radmanovic
23 Maurice Taylor
24 Joe Smith
25 Popeye Jones
26 Jerome Williams
27 Horace Grant
28 Scott Williams
29 Tyrone Hill (OR Chris Mihm, they're both TERRIBLE)

Feel free to argue with these rankings, in FACT, that's what I WANT you to do! But DO NOT IGNORE the stats from my previous post! Stats do NOT tell the whole story, but they tell us a LOT!


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

JYD aint as bad as you make him sound, living in canuck land I see him quite a bit. His defense is top-notch with his long arms he can put the clamps on sum of the best SG and SF in the East. His offense is alrite, nothing special but what impresses me most is his hustle and energy. I've seen him come of the bench many times for TO and instantly provide a spark and im sure raptor fans agree with me there.


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

whoever said that wuz right but not for the right reasons ... so technically he wuz wrong

and jyd has been averaging 12 pts 12 rebounds a game in the past 11 games... you know he also plays center?


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