# Real GM: Atlantic Div Pre-view



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

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New York 33-49 

New York… They aren’t going anywhere anytime soon, though they might squeeze into the first round. Knicks fans won’t much like that statement but they just aren’t designed for success. Too many cooks spoil the soup and it doesn’t help if several of them are undisciplined shot-chuckers who play poor defense. 

New York’s first problem? Post play. Jerome James is not the answer, one playoff series means nothing (Jerome Moiso, anyone?). Channing Frye is a rookie and isn’t ready to make a serious contribution here. Down the road, that’s different but not right away. Second problem? Defense. The number of decent defenders on that team is very small. Next, size. They have a team filled with undersized players with only a few exceptions. Next, attitudes. Tim Thomas, Jerome James, Jamal Crawford… This is a volatile team. Never mind Penny and Mo Taylor. Their offense is not balanced as far as the types of players they have on their team, they have lots of gunners but no real shooters outside of Tim Thomas. They have one slasher (Crawford) who prefers to over-dribble and chuck shots and a couple other guys who can’t actually do much on offense (Trevor Ariza, Malik Rose). 

I suppose the bright spot here is Stephon Marbury; he really improved the efficiency of his offense last year and continued to distribute the ball well. I still think he over-dribbles and tries to score too much but that’s a stylistic opinion. New York has obstacles to overcome within their team but they also have other hurdles: The playoff teams from last season were Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Indiana, Miami, New Jersey, Philadelphia and Washington. Of those, at least five of them are going back to the playoffs, probably six and maybe even seven. 

Boston won’t make the playoffs but Philly should and Washington might as long as Jamison and Arenas stay healthy for 75+ games (and if they get anything decent out of Caron Butler, then they are a really strong possibility). That really leaves only one or two spots for New York to contend for and they’ve got to deal with Cleveland and Orlando. Cleveland is better than New York and should take the spot that will be vacated by Boston. Between Orlando and New York… it really depends on how much Larry Brown can change the culture and style of the Knicks in one season and whether or not he can force the less insightful players on the Knicks like Crawford and James to play “the right way” as he always attempts to do. 

It would be folly to underestimate Brown but the Knicks are possessed of neither the talent nor the mentality to make it out of the first round. Call it a successful season if they make the playoffs, Trevor Ariza makes strides and Channing Frye looks decent.

Click to expand...

http://www.realgm.com/src_goaltending/56/20050923/atlantic_division_preview/*


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

knicks will no doubt be in the playoffs(7-8 seed)barring no injury.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Kitty said:


> *
> 
> http://www.realgm.com/src_goaltending/56/20050923/atlantic_division_preview/*


this writer is braindead...

SIZE???????????what time warp is this guy locked into??

C-jerome james 7'1 275 -400 pounds
PF/C-channing frye 6'11" 250
SG-Q 6'6" 230
point guard-JC 6'5" 200
small foward -TT 6'10" 250

how are those guys small????

OK,sweetney and Marbury arent tall,but they are strong mofo's..

we may sucj,but we size wont be the problem


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

real gm isnt a reputable source for basketball analysis. they dont know the team like we do. they dont know anything, either way...its all morons


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

I can't really take much issue with the analysis. We look slated for a .500-ish season, give or take a few. That does not guarantee a playoff slot.

I expect something of a rollercoaster ride. We'll have some nice stretches where fans will tell us this is what they've been talking about and the next week/month we'll give it all back.

Problem is too many of our guys are paper tigers. They look good on paper but don't have the ferocity to back it up. For things to go as well as some expect everything has to click. TT has to be consistent, Sweets get minutes and stay out of foul trouble, James to play big/hard, Crawford to take it to the hole, someone to execute well at point guard, Ariza to sink his shot, few to none insuries, good chemistry between Marbs, JC and Q, non one significant sulking in LB's doghouse, etc. But how often do all these things click?

We saw the same thing last year. Some pundits had us winning the Atlantic but always with reservations: not deep, chemistry questions between Marbury Crawford, lack of "size" (read: quality) upfront, questionable attitudes, soft D, etc. What happened? When things clicked sure enough we led the Atlantic, but when a few things got out of whack we went 3-19 and everyone of those reservations surfaced and we ended up with like the 7th worst record in the league.

So sure, we could be one of those surprise teams like Chicago or Seattle of last year, but the safer bet is that we middle about and fight for a playoff berth, which could go either way.


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## ERAFF (Jun 27, 2005)

truth said:


> this writer is braindead...
> 
> SIZE???????????what time warp is this guy locked into??
> 
> ...


Questions about SIZE are usually really questions about the quality of your BIGS---

JJ---career is 15-20 barely productive minutes a night
Frye--You've gotta wait and see, but he doesn't seem to be a BANGER

The rest of the Bigs are...well....???....they don't have very "BIG GAMES"---they will have a serious job to produce 96 minutes betwen the 4/5 spots

The other Guys you mentioned:

Q---yes... abig 2....but he has trouble defending at both the 2 and 3---lacks quickness at the 2 an, yes, lacks sized at the 3

TT---6'10 and...SO WHAT!!!! a TINY offensive game-stays away from the lane. No defensive game or interior presence.

JC---no D

I won't bother with the rest of this---their biggest issues are the without the ball stuff---D and Boarding---they play SMALL as defenders---lack floor speed. They are a decent fantasy team----if you want to play all guards and pretend that AH is healthy.


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## j0se (Sep 22, 2005)

PennyHardaway said:


> real gm isnt a reputable source for basketball analysis. they dont know the team like we do. they dont know anything, either way...its all morons


They are right, we're a terrible undersized defensive team.

We did get smaller, by adding Robinson, Richardson for Kurt Thomas, there goes the rebounding and defense.

Isiah isn't smart, lol really, who drafts two PF's and a score first 5"8 PG, whos probably going to have the worst court vision in the NBA, consider he has to play again tall PG guys like Kidd, Alston, Billups, Sarunas, Hinrich, Daniels, etc etc etc.


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## ERAFF (Jun 27, 2005)

The fact that I think they have a bad mix is probably irrelevant---I can't believe they're gonna play 82 games with THAT roster.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

j0se said:


> They are right, we're a terrible undersized defensive team.
> 
> We did get smaller, by adding Robinson, Richardson for Kurt Thomas, there goes the rebounding and defense.
> 
> Isiah isn't smart, lol really, who drafts two PF's and a score first 5"8 PG, whos probably going to have the worst court vision in the NBA, consider he has to play again tall PG guys like Kidd, Alston, Billups, Sarunas, Hinrich, Daniels, etc etc etc.



how many more productive years were you expecting out of kurt thomas i mean seriously and everybody else here who talks about that trade...only time will tell the outcome but isiah did what was his goal for the knicks when he got here which is get YOUNGER and more Athletic...

as for nate robinson i think isiah said it best,..if he wouldve been 6ft he wouldve been in the lottery no doubt..

and by drafting 2 power forwards like you said we are a small team so he had to draft the best big man available at 8 which was frye 6'11 listed height...and david lee honestly i think was just filler the knicks have too many players, and i think drafting him isiah wasnt expecting the next karl malone or something but just someone who can produce enough....he could've taken the chance and went for others on the board...i mean stoudemire, blatchy(6'11''), chris taft(6'10) were still on the board,..but i think lee has a great attitude and could be a solid role player









and the reaction on spike lee's face when isiah pick david lee with the 30th pick was priceless somebody that has the picture up it or the video


just my :twocents:


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

ERAFF said:


> Questions about SIZE are usually really questions about the quality of your BIGS---
> JJ---career is 15-20 barely productive minutes a night
> Frye--You've gotta wait and see, but he doesn't seem to be a BANGER
> The rest of the Bigs are...well....???....they don't have very "BIG GAMES"---they will have a serious job to produce 96 minutes betwen the 4/5 spots
> ...


Hey,i said the Knicks were BIG....Bigger!!!!! I did say we may SUCK,but its not becuase we are small!!!! We will suck for the very reasons you mentioned..But we are BIG!!!!!!!!!!

With that said,who would be your all D Knicks team,which probably will be very close to Coach Browns team...

Point Guard - JC..Has the size and quickness to play good D ath the 1..Too weak at the 2

Shooting Guard - Q..Must drop 15 pounds to gain lateral quickness.Gnobli tore him up.Does possess Great size...

Small foward - Trevor Ariza- Long,fast and quick..Good instincts and fundamentals for a 19+.Needs to fill out

Power Foward- Ugggghh...Malik Rose??David Lee??? Frye in time..has all the physical tools,has to get a little nastier and grasp the fundamentals

Center- Big Wopper...Has to stay out of foul trouble and stay focused and in shape


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## ERAFF (Jun 27, 2005)

truth said:


> Hey,i said the Knicks were BIG....Bigger!!!!! I did say we may SUCK,but its not becuase we are small!!!! We will suck for the very reasons you mentioned..But we are BIG!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> With that said,who would be your all D Knicks team,which probably will be very close to Coach Browns team..."
> 
> ...


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

ChosenFEW said:


> how many more productive years were you expecting out of kurt thomas i mean seriously and everybody else here who talks about that trade...only time will tell the outcome but isiah did what was his goal for the knicks when he got here which is get YOUNGER and more Athletic...
> 
> as for nate robinson i think isiah said it best,..if he wouldve been 6ft he wouldve been in the lottery no doubt..


I strongly disagree with the Kurt Thomas assessment. Zeke dropped the ball by acquiring another SG/SF. We have more guards than Rikers Island! We need a PF who has the ability to score in the post. Wait...when was the last time we had a PF that had post moves? Was it LJ? If so, that is quite sad. I think Zeke should have waited and kept KT. Zeke tends to pull the trigger way to fast without thinking.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

Kitty said:


> I strongly disagree with the Kurt Thomas assessment. Zeke dropped the ball by acquiring another SG/SF. We have more guards than Rikers Island! We need a PF who has the ability to score in the post. Wait...when was the last time we had a PF that had post moves? Was it LJ? If so, that is quite sad. I think Zeke should have waited and kept KT. Zeke tends to pull the trigger way to fast without thinking.



if isiah wouldve waited we wouldnt have got the 21st pick in the draft and no way were the suns going to let richardson go knowing now that joe johnson wasnt going to resign with them......Q is still very valuable, no way were the wizards going to give us kwame for thomas but had we given them Q for kwame it wouldve been a done deal....Q still has game and i think isiah is going to see how the team plays this first half of the season,....whateva pieces he thinks are expendable he will use to trade before the deadline,....and i think we will end up giving up one of our gaurds for a big man later on in the season.......we'll see

as for kurt i mean his value was going down the longer isiah kept him, Kurt is/was never a banger or inside player he always got his points by spotting up around the fouline and jacking up pick and roll jumpshots,....he never took it to the hole and tried to draw fouls or anything,...to me he was a 1 dimensional player...who was basically the second best player on the team....and best big man on the team....one thing is he was consistant...always was able to hit the open J...and i would be able to also, if i get the looks he get after pick-n-rolls....he was like a poormans Juwan howard,.and juwan howard isnt anything to brag about


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

ChosenFEW said:


> if isiah wouldve waited we wouldnt have got the 21st pick in the draft and no way were the suns going to let richardson go knowing now that joe johnson wasnt going to resign with them......Q is still very valuable, no way were the wizards going to give us kwame for thomas but had we given them Q for kwame it wouldve been a done deal....Q still has game and i think isiah is going to see how the team plays this first half of the season,....whateva pieces he thinks are expendable he will use to trade before the deadline,....and i think we will end up giving up one of our gaurds for a big man later on in the season.......we'll see
> 
> as for kurt i mean his value was going down the longer isiah kept him, Kurt is/was never a banger or inside player he always got his points by spotting up around the fouline and jacking up pick and roll jumpshots,....he never took it to the hole and tried to draw fouls or anything,...to me he was a 1 dimensional player...who was basically the second best player on the team....and best big man on the team....one thing is he was consistant...always was able to hit the open J...and i would be able to also, if i get the looks he get after pick-n-rolls....he was like a poormans Juwan howard,.and juwan howard isnt anything to brag about


I am with the ChosenFew on this one...I liked Kurt,but his contract duration was way too long considering his age...As much as he was lucky,the trade for Q and Nate is in our favor....And supposedly we could have traded Q for Kwame which we couldnt have done with Kurt...

My best guess was Zeke knew he was going after a big in the draft(Frye,Bynum),and looked at his bench and saw Sweetney,MoT and Rose at the 4.Someone had to go..

At the 2,other than JC,who do we have???A one legged H20???A one legged Penny with a bad attitude??I dont see how you can fault trading for Q??


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

So you guys perfer 20 guards on your roster instead of big men which are hard to come by. Please clarify because I'm confused. We have too many guards and nothing else. I wasn't happy with that deal what so ever. I wanted another big man instead of another SG/SF. Maybe I'm hard on Zeke sometimes, but I think he pulls the trigger a tad too fast without doing some research (making additional phone calls to other GM's).


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

truth said:


> I am with the ChosenFew on this one...I liked Kurt,but his contract duration was way too long considering his age...As much as he was lucky,the trade for Q and Nate is in our favor....And supposedly we could have traded Q for Kwame which we couldnt have done with Kurt...
> 
> My best guess was Zeke knew he was going after a big in the draft(Frye,Bynum),and looked at his bench and saw Sweetney,MoT and Rose at the 4.Someone had to go..
> 
> *At the 2,other than JC,who do we have???A one legged H20???A one legged Penny with a bad attitude??I dont see how you can fault trading for Q??*


i got to agree with this , anyone who saw the knicks limp to the finish of the season with only 3 guards playing (JC Marbury and jermaine jackson who was allergic to taking a jumpshot) knew there just had to be more depth .

if houston can play great , if he cant well then its an injury exception.

if penny can play ... i really dont care , he quit on his team last season , he should be sent somewhere like utah where no one wants to go.

nate looked good in summer league but he has been for all of his 21 years a 5'8 2 guard i need to see him do the job in the pro's , of which he'll probably be a 1 anyway

Q is a healthy body who can play , no glaring physical defects, 2 working legs, athletic , can shoot.

i am looking forward to a team that can do alot of different things and has alot of options on both sides of the ball.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> i got to agree with this , anyone who saw the knicks limp to the finish of the season with only 3 guards playing (JC Marbury and jermaine jackson who was allergic to taking a jumpshot) knew there just had to be more depth .
> 
> if houston can play great , if he cant well then its an injury exception.
> 
> ...


actually send him to atlanta, no one wants to go there except joe johnson.sending him to utah would be too nice.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

You fellas must not understand Isiah's vision. Its a good idea but Im not quite sure if it works in today's NBA. He built it like his old team. Watch this. I am not comparing the talent to these guys like I said but perhaps Isiah thinks the talent is close. Or the system will work.



PG- Isiah-Steph Lets not debate this Isiah got steph because he thinks that Stephon is the same style player he is.

SG- Crawford-Dumars- Well Joe Dumars was a taller guard IE 6-5 6-6 and has other similarities to Dumars bodywise and maybe somewhat skillwise.

SF- Qrich-Vinnie Johnson- HERES THE PROOF IN THE PUDDING its a 3 guard offense and vinny was the guard thats gonna play SF for you. Same thing with Qrich. He is a bulky tall 2 but undersized to play SF

PF- Sweetney-Rodman- This isnt an isiah player so hes the exception and NOTHING like dennis rodman. Perhaps David Lee is what Isiah thinks will be rodman cause of his jumping skills and freak athleticism but noone can be sure on this one.

C- JJ-Laimbeer- well theyr both supposibly high intensity bigmen who will go balls to the wall. Both were also very tall/and had a lot of weight on the body.


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## ERAFF (Jun 27, 2005)

knicksfan said:


> You fellas must not understand Isiah's vision. Its a good idea but Im not quite sure if it works in today's NBA. He built it like his old team. Watch this. I am not comparing the talent to these guys like I said but perhaps Isiah thinks the talent is close. Or the system will work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suspected that you had NOT actually seen that Pistons team play, because your comparisons are so off base---I checked your profile and I see that you were born in '88....so I can understand. Unfortunately, the facts about that Piston Team stand in the way of your theory. Other than Isiah identifying with a Lead Guard like Steph, there is not very much similarity between any of the Kinicks players you mention and their Bad Boys counterparts. NOTHING about the individuals or teams would indicate that Isiah had his own basketball heritage in mind when he "constructed" this "FRANKEN-TEAM"! 

It is amazing that he went from Bobby Knight to Chuck Daly....and this Roster is the embodiment of his vision of a basketball team???!!!


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

ERAFF said:


> I suspected that you had NOT actually seen that Pistons team play, because your comparisons are so off base---I checked your profile and I see that you were born in '88....so I can understand. Unfortunately, the facts about that Piston Team stand in the way of your theory. Other than Isiah identifying with a Lead Guard like Steph, there is not very much similarity between any of the Kinicks players you mention and their Bad Boys counterparts. NOTHING about the individuals or teams would indicate that Isiah had his own basketball heritage in mind when he "constructed" this "FRANKEN-TEAM"!
> 
> It is amazing that he went from Bobby Knight to Chuck Daly....and this Roster is the embodiment of his vision of a basketball team???!!!


I dont think the microwave(Vinnie) started at the 3...Mark Aqguire was the post player on offense as Lambier played up top...

The teams are pretty different.....


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## Real (Aug 3, 2005)

knicksfan said:


> You fellas must not understand Isiah's vision. Its a good idea but Im not quite sure if it works in today's NBA. He built it like his old team. Watch this. I am not comparing the talent to these guys like I said but perhaps Isiah thinks the talent is close. Or the system will work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. They are different, Marbury hasn't won anything.

2. Microwave didn't start he came off the bench 

3. Um..are you kidding me?

4. See no. 3


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

maybe it just me but i think the knicks gonna win the atlantic


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

BenGordon said:


> maybe it just me but i think the knicks gonna win the atlantic


i wouldnt be shocked, but thats only if nj and philly collapse in chem and injuries.


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