# American Euroleague Talent?



## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

I was looking over some of the players in the Euroleagues and noticed their great stats, I was wondering how talented are they in the Euroleagues, and are they potentially NBA material if they were placed on the correct team?










Lynn Greer 25.0ppg 5.5apg 3.1rpg 1.5spg 3.5TO 7.1Foulsrec *24.2RKG* in 35.5mpg









Anthony Parker 16.0ppg 5.7rpg 3.5apg 1.6TO 1.2spg 4.5FoulsRec *22.2RKG* in 35.1mpg









Trajan Langdon 14.2ppg 3.0rpg 1.6apg 1.5spg 1.8TO 3.0FoulsRec *13.9RKG* in 34.1mpg



Would you say Lynn Greer is better than Marko Jaric, Sarunas Jasik, Rau Lopez? 

Is Anthony Parker about the same or better than Manu Ginobili?

Is Trajan Langdon the same as Arvydas Macijauskas? 

Can someone give me an idea on how good these guys really are compared to former Euroleague talent that is now in the NBA?

Thanks


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Dont forget about Tyus Edney?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Where is Willie Solomon? Or Marcus Brown?


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

I wanted to list these players for now......


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## mrn-LT (Apr 24, 2004)

Lynn play for stats,Jasikevicius play for team and win


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## Marco Mitis (Dec 17, 2002)

Greer and Langdon are good players.
Antony Parker is a great one, and I mean great.
A black player with the instinct of a Slavic.
Concerning NBA I don't know, it's a different game, more atletichs than skills. And these players are more skills than muscles.
Anyway, it's a shame that Antony Parker don't plays in the NBA.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

...Anthony Parker imo could play in NBA-even as a starter in some clubs, most americans playing in europe, didn't make it to NBA because of their lack of height, but Parker is a legit 6'6 (maybee 6'7 in NBA- with shoes on) SG.

Marcus Brown, Trajan Langdon, Scoonie Penn, Lynn Greer, Tyus Edney are typical US players in europe- that have the skills, but are too short to play their true position in NBA.
I'd definately try with Ed Cota if I were an NBA GM.


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

Anthony Parker does not seem 'short' or undersized to me?

If he is athletic I am curious as to why he is not in the NBA at least as a crucial bench player? Does he have all around skills passing/slashing/shooting? 

Did he develop his skills the past few years, as opposed to a couple years after college? He was on the Sixers and Magic and in the NBA for three years as a bench player before he came to Maccabi, it was not like they discarded him initially after college because of his lack of height?

Did he become better and more confident, as he came to Europe in 2000-01?


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## alister (Oct 12, 2002)

Also some other great players are Elmer Bennet,Antonio Granger and (was) Alfonso Ford.Ford was probably the scorer in Europe and should average more that 15 ppg in a medium NBA team...


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>alister</b>!
> Also some other great players are Elmer Bennet,Antonio Granger and (was) Alfonso Ford.Ford was probably the scorer in Europe and should average more that 15 ppg in a medium NBA team...


Ford is (I still hope he'll recoverate and return to play ! go Al) probably one of the best SG of ever in Europe.

The problem about NBA/Ford is that he's too small to play SG in NBA: in fact he's only 191cm/6-26ft (quite small for the europeans standard too), even if he's very athletic.


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

What do you know about Anthony Parker *italianBBlover*?


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nikos</b>!
> What do you know about Anthony Parker *italianBBlover*?


I can only repeat the word of my fellow country man Marco Mitis ! a complete player (scorer, passer, defender).


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

I guess I can understand why Alphonso Ford, Lynn Greer, and other short SG's who are the size of PG's do not play in the NBA. Maybe some of them could become good bench scorers in the NBA, but not neccesarily playmakers with guard skills (such as passing and running an offense). 

The thing I find interesting is that guys like Lynn Greer, Alphonso Ford (late 90s) are such great scorers in the Euroleague and yet a guy like Milos Vujanic who is also a combo guard (not a pure PG yet) cannot score 20ppg on a great team (only on a weaker Partizan team). And yet, Milos Vujanic is considered to be a solid NBA prospect, while Lynn Greer probably doesn't get any consideration. 

I have never seen Greer in the Euroleagues, but is he any more talented than Milos Vujanic? 

Is Anthony Parker about the same talent level overall as Manu Ginobili? Perhaps Marko Jaric? Milos Vujanic? Perhaps better than these guys?


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## mvblair (Nov 20, 2003)

I have always loved US American players who go abroad to play. Great NBA players like Bob McAdoo and Dominique Wilkins played in Europe, you know. 

After watching the Olympics, I think a lot of US Americans have realized that the talent overseas is better than we thought. Really, I think most of the starters and many of the bench players for lots of the Olympic teams could play in the NBA (Lavrinovic, Jasekivicius, Phillip Jones, Larry Ayuso, Macas, Galanda, Basile, Bogut, Papadopoulos, etc, etc). So, by the same token, I think that a lot of US Americans in Europe could play in the NBA.

A lot of them end up returning to the NBA, after all. NBA players like Bruce Bowen and Stephon Jackson played in Europe (and elsewhere). So, yes, I think Greer and Edney could play in the NBA. Chicago has been trying and trying to bring Parker home, but he has contract problems. And there are a lot more. 

(You have to remember that Memphis, a Western conference play-off team, beat Barcelona by only ten or so points last summer...That shows how good EL teams are).

I think that "undersized" players can succeed. Look at what Luis Scola did to Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudemire, and Carlos Boozer. Scola burned them all, and he is supposedly "undersized" as a power forward. Look at what Allen Iverson has done in the NBA as an "undersized" shooting guard. I think that Ford could have been very succesful in the NBA. But sometimes, an agent makes mistakes, scouts overlook you one year, or something else happens.

Matt


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

> Really, I think most of the starters and many of the bench players for lots of the Olympic teams could play in the NBA (Lavrinovic, Jasekivicius, Phillip Jones, Larry Ayuso, Macas, Galanda, Basile, Bogut, Papadopoulos, etc, etc). So, by the same token, I think that a lot of US Americans in Europe could play in the NBA.


You bring up another question about some of the Domestic Euroleague players vs American Euroleague players that I have.

First off, are guys like Gianluca Basile and Arvydas Macas as good as players such as Anthony Parker, Lynn Greer? 

I notice from other Italian posters that someone like Basile is very inconsistent. In the olympics he also seemed to be a little inconsistent, but he had some HUGE 25+ point games against good teams like Lithuania and USA. 

Why does it seem that a player of his calibur is inconsistent in the Euroleague, but he can play well against good olympic competetion? Are Basile and Macy simply SPOT UP shooters, thus less effective than someone like Anthony Parker? 

My other main question: Why is it that Greer can pickup large and consistent stats, but Basile cannot? Is Skipper Bologna structured so that the scoring is balanced? It seems as though European teams have different guys score 20 one night and 4 the next night. Is it because they are so strict with their players not forcing shots, and also encouraging ball movement? 

What is the reason for the inconsistency in many scorers on 'balanced' teams such as Skipper, while guys like Lynn Greer and Anthony Parker score very consistently but in the past did not win (although Maccabi did win this season VERY EASILY over Skipper, much to my suprise -- cause Skipper looked very good overall with Poz, Vujanic, Delfino, Basile etc....)

Can someone shine some light on some of my questions, it would help clear up some of the inconsistencies and mysteries I see in International ball by looking at stats and playoff results etc.....

Thanks


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> First off, are guys like Gianluca Basile and Arvydas Macas as good as players such as Anthony Parker, Lynn Greer?


Gianluca is not as athletic, as versatile and can't score like Greer and Anthiny can. Macas can score, but in NBA he'd screw everything up in defense...



> My other main question: Why is it that Greer can pickup large and consistent stats, but Basile cannot? Is Skipper Bologna structured so that the scoring is balanced?


You guessed right, Skipper is much more balanced team with Vujanic, Basile, Pozzecco, A.J.Guyton, Delfino, Mottola, VD Spiegel, Smodis, Lorbek+few more... while Greer was practicaly the only offensive option in Slask... to be honest Slask had 3-4 offensive options at max. Greer wouldn't post such numbers in Skipper at all...




> It seems as though European teams have different guys score 20 one night and 4 the next night. Is it because they are so strict with their players not forcing shots, and also encouraging ball movement?


That's because if someone gets well covered- he just doesn't force shots like it can be seen in NBA + as you said ball movement


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

Another american player I found that dominated the Italian League. Bootsy Thorton scored 30pts, then 26pts in the first 2/3 games against Skipper Bologna in the 2003-04 LEGA Finals.

I am wondering how can a player of his calibur dominate Skipper so badly? Vujanic and Basile both did terribly and Pozzecco barely played.

How is this possible.

This is another thing sort of annoys me. How can Thorton a 6-4 Scorer dominate so easily? If Basile and Pozzeco can play so well vs USA, maybe Thorton could get 35pts against USA in FIBA competetion? 

I am starting to think maybe guys like Basile and Arvydas Macy have no chance at NBA because they are one dimensional players who get detroyed by Bootsy Thorton and Anthony Parker?

Is this true, because I am not sure. 

But it seems that all the guards who are good college scorers, who don't have talent in the NBA seem to DOMINATE in Europe. So how is it players like Vujanic, Basile, Macy, Jasik etc... have a chance at the NBA? Are they being overrated if they cannot matchup with undersized SG's of the USA such as Thorton etc....?

Can someone please help me with these last few posts I am getting a little frustrated trying to understand the inconsistencies and the fact that mediocre american scrubs can dominate players who PLAYED well in the olympics vs USA. It almost makes me think if there were NBA rules that they would lose by 30-40 easily (the International teams).

I mean if Thorton at 6-4" came to the NBA, he probably couldn't score much or defend. 

Is this true what I mention above, that Basile, Vujanic, Macy, and Jasik probably are not even NBA material or that talented.....?


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nikos</b>!
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hqaha i remember this guy from st johns.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nikos</b>!
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Your question is interesting, but in the NBA, if you are undersized you are at a disadvantage immediately. The reason why, coaches value defense over offense way too much. If they didn't, then Lynn Greer and Bootsy Thornton would be in the NBA already instead of guys like Jason Hart and Tyronn Lue. Willie Solomon would be in the NBA instead of Howard Eisley or Jacque Vaughn. 

No one wants to bring in a small SG or combo guard, because they are afraid of the defensive matchups.

That's why I will always respect Rick Adelman, because if he has two good guards, even if they are small (Bibby and Jackson), he is going to get them in the game and play them next to each other. 

You can't tell me if Willie Solomon and Lynn Greer were on Team USA, that they wouldn't have done better, because those guys can shoot. 

Bobby Jackson and Troy Hudson are not much better than those two, if at all.


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## Marco Mitis (Dec 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nikos</b>!
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Well, I found it difficoult to answer this, maybe because of mu poor English.
In Europe, differentely from NBA, it's team vs team than 1vs1, so* it's the whole team that wins a game, not a single scorer.* So if on one certain game the tactical situation makes one player the most valuable offensive option, and he scores 30 pts, not necessarly he next game will be the same. So to be succesfull on an euroleague team a player needs to develope more skills, passing, defense, scoring. Size don't matter as much as NBA side because phisical contact is called way more here, and team defence can help also. In the NBA to be succesfull you better to do one thing but do it at the maximum level: to Steve Kerr it is not asked to pick rebounds or to be playmaker. So a player like Marvin "Bootsy" Thornton will have it easyer here than home: he's good at many things, but not great at any. In the euro style of play the total is more than the sum of the single skills, in the NBA not. Thornton, btw, it's an excellent player thet maybe have been no luck in NBA, because you need also luck to find the franchise whose style match yours and with open spots on the roster that you can fill. Parker is a great player, IMO, because is EXCELLENT at many things. But NBA scouts sometimes are a bit of a mistery to me, they bring to the league crap players (Tshikisvili 1st example, he was just a bencher at BEnetton Treviso) or overrate players like Vujanic (it's just my opinion, of course) and never consider others. What have Spurs Tony Parker more than Bulleri? Nothing.


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

> What have Spurs Tony Parker more than Bulleri? Nothing.


Do you really feel that Bulleri is as good as Tony Parker? What makes you say this?


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nikos</b>!
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> Do you really feel that Bulleri is as good as Tony Parker? What makes you say this?


yes , good question...


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

> to Steve Kerr it is not asked to pick rebounds or to be playmaker. So a player like Marvin "Bootsy" Thornton will have it easyer here than home: he's good at many things, but not great at any. In the euro style of play the total is more than the sum of the single skills, in the NBA not.


While we are on this subject, do you think Steve Kerr could have been an All-Euroleague or All-Italian League Player (Top 5) if he was in his prime right now and played on lets say Skipper Bologna or CSKA....?

Can simple spot up shooters be elite players in the Euroleage? Or do they also have to be multi-dimensional scorers such as a Thorton, Ford, Vujanic, etc.....?

For example many say that Gianluca Basile is mainly a spot up shooter, does that mean someone such as Steve Kerr in his prime would be a better PLAYER than him?


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## Marco Mitis (Dec 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nikos</b>!
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> Do you really feel that Bulleri is as good as Tony Parker? What makes you say this?


Tony Parker was nothing special here before going in the NBA and to me (and maybe it's just me) has proved to be nothing special last year at the euro tornament. Good, but nothing special.
In France vs Italy game, Bulleri outgamed him. Better offence, better defence, better playmaking.
Why is he playing in the NBA, world's best league, and, say, Jasikevicious not?


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## Marco Mitis (Dec 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nikos</b>!
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> While we are on this subject, do you think Steve Kerr could have been an All-Euroleague or All-Italian League Player (Top 5) if he was in his prime right now and played on lets say Skipper Bologna or CSKA....?
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I named Kerr just as an example of a specialist. As pure shooter, he was better than Basile whose shooting is erratic, other really I can't say because I always saw Kerr do mainly this: shooting. 
Concerning Basile, he do many things well, and this makes him a good team player. Not a great one, anyway, and not NBA material, IMO.

Just as an example, Stojakovic was an excellent team player at PAOK Thessaloniki, and his average scoring was lower than what he have done in the NBA. But in the league he has developed himself more as a shooter. If Kerr would have pursuit a career in Europe he would have being forced to develope other skills also.
Different rules makes for different style of players, and assuming that some big names in Europe will fail in the NBA, by the same token some big names in the NBA will fail in Euro. Lebron will be a bencher in an Euroleague team.
Just my opinion, of course.


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

> Tony Parker was nothing special here before going in the NBA and to me (and maybe it's just me) has proved to be nothing special last year at the euro tornament. Good, but nothing special.
> In France vs Italy game, Bulleri outgamed him. Better offence, better defence, better playmaking.
> Why is he playing in the NBA, world's best league, and, say, Jasikevicious not?[


I thought Bulleri did not even play much vs France? And if he did, I thought Parker outscored him by a large margin? Wasn't Bulleri in foul trouble in the Euro 2003 games against France?

You mentioned Basile not being NBA material, do you think Pozzecco or Bulleri are? If Tony Parker can be a solid NBA guard, what makes you think he is not much better than Bulleri? It is one thing to be a backup in the NBA, but to be a starter like Parker -- whereas Bulleri is not even a starter on Bennetton --how can they be equal as overall players and talents?


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## Marco Mitis (Dec 17, 2002)

I don't want to be desrispectful towards Parker, but I just believe that if he can, others with similar or comparable qualities can.
Bulleri, Pozzecco, Jasikevicious, Lakovic can, if given a shoot, do what he did in the NBA.
There have been some great players who have not been given the opportunity to show their value, like Djordjevic that after getting a contract with Portland was left on the bench for few months untill he get tired and asked himself out of his contract, or Bodiroga, probabilly the best euro player of the past 10 years.


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

I have a ton of respect for the italian team. They play with a lot of heart and discipline. I heard some disrespectful comments saying that they did not deserve their place in the last Olympics games.It's totally untrue. Their silver medal is all the more deserved that they definitely played like a team . Now , I don't think that many of the Iitalian players could play in the NBA . Bulleri is a talented player indeed , very fast according to the european criterias but I frankly doubt that he is good enough to play in NBA. He is not tall (188 cm) , he is fast according to the european criterias but not especially quick if you compare him to the normal NBA guard. Besides , he is more a guard than a PG , looking firstly to score and not to run the team. I think for instance that vincenzo Esposito was a more gifted offensive player and despite his obvious qualities , he failed to make it in the league . My personnal opinion is that parker is much more quick than Bulleri . He is arguably not as good as a shooter , but he improved constantly his game since the day he arrived in the league. And , you will forgive me to remind you this fact , but he is only 22 years old , not 27 like Bulleri.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ballstorm</b>!
> I have a ton of respect for the italian team. They play with a lot of heart and discipline. I heard some disrespectful comments saying that they did not deserve their place in the last Olympics games.It's totally untrue. Their silver medal is all the more deserved that they definitely played like a team . Now , I don't think that many of the Iitalian players could play in the NBA . Bulleri is a talented player indeed , very fast according to the european criterias but I frankly doubt that he is good enough to play in NBA. He is not tall (188 cm) , he is fast according to the european criterias but not especially quick if you compare him to the normal NBA guard. Besides , he is more a guard than a PG , looking firstly to score and not to run the team. I think for instance that vincenzo Esposito was a more gifted offensive player and despite his obvious qualities , he failed to make it in the league . My personnal opinion is that parker is much more quick than Bulleri . He is arguably not as good as a shooter , but he improved constantly his game since the day he arrived in the league. And , you will forgive me to remind you this fact , but he is only 22 years old , not 27 like Bulleri.


I think that Pozzecco can play a couple of year in NBA.
He's small but, as you saw, he's incredible quick and his assists ... well ... are pure showtime.

The others on the actual roster of the italian NT can't have an NBA spot because they are all too old ( (27-30).

A lot of more chances have the young dudes like Mancinelli, Belinelli, Bargnani, Da Tome or Cotani.

Wait to see some of them the next year in Beograd ( 100% Mancinelli).


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

Pozzecco is by far the most talented player in the italian team . He is not only extremely quick but also knows extremely well how to distribute the game. Every time he entered a game he made things happen in the olympics. Even if he is a bit old now to play in NBA , I'm still sure that he would find a way to play and gain the respect of the league. Such a talent is not ordinary.

As for the italian young prospects , I only remember Belinelli from the last european championship. Nice talent for sure , nice shoot , even if sometimes he relies to much on it. I am looking forward to seing him in a better team where he would not only have to score .


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

I also would love to see Pozzecco play a few years in the NBA as a solid backup PG. His distributing skills are about as good as it gets. And I think they could apply in the NBA just as well.

Only thing is his lack of size and lack of defense at the NBA level. But that is why he could make a very nice backup IMO if given the chance.


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

> You can't tell me if Willie Solomon and Lynn Greer were on Team USA, that they wouldn't have done better, because those guys can shoot.
> 
> Bobby Jackson and Troy Hudson are not much better than those two, if at all.


Do you feel that Lynn Greer is really as good as Bobby Jackson as an overall player?

I could see maybe the comparison to Hudson, but Bobby Jackson seems like an excellent rebounder for his size and a very good defender. And obviously Bobby can score as well.

Perhaps Greer did not make the NBA cut cause he is not much of a defender or overall athlete as Bobby Jackson? 

Here is his quote on his tryout in the NBA......



> "This year I decided to try an NBA camp and see what that experience was like. I went with the Milwaukee Bucks, made it to the last cut, and the day before the season started I was released. I was home for about a week, and then had offers in Russia, Turkey and Poland. It got down to crunch time, and I needed to make a decision. What led me here was that this is a Euroleague team. That meant more games, big-time competition and a place where I can showcase my talent."


Hard to say why he did make the cut. But Bobby Jackson has become the best backup PG in the league and maybe even a Top 15 PG if given the chance (although he really is an SG in terms of style).

Perhaps Greer could post similiar scoring numbers, but he probably would not get to the FT line or shoot as good an overall %, while playing BoJax's Defense and give the same oevrall energy and rebounding as well.

What does anyone think about the entire Euroleague scorers as backup NBA players (the American ones who are undersized SG/PG's that is).


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