# Who would you compare Webster's athletic ablity with



## KIDBLAZE (Jul 8, 2003)

im glad that he is a proven shooter but i would like to know how he fares in the athletic department. i mean have a proven shooter is great but i dont want the sixth pick spent on someone who will be nothing but a spot up shooter his whole career because he doesn't know how to get to the whole.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

KIDBLAZE said:


> im glad that he is a proven shooter but i would like to know how he fares in the athletic department. i mean have a proven shooter is great but i dont want the sixth pick spent on someone who will be nothing but a spot up shooter his whole career because he doesn't know how to get to the whole.




With the little I know about him, I would compare him to Walt Williams. The guy an drill it from anywhere, and moves really well without the ball ala Reggie Miller. He certainly won't blow by anyone, but we already have a lot of guys that can do that already.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Excellent comparison mediocre man, walt williams seems right on.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Paxil said:


> Excellent comparison mediocre man, walt williams seems right on.



Someone else brought up the name Mitch Ritchmond. I think that's a good one too. I think Webster will be able to get by people because of his jumper, as where someone like Telfair will be able to get his jumper off because he can get by people.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

From what I remember he had a much better athletic showing at his workout for Portland then he did at the combine. He had like a 3 inch improvement on his vertical. 

And in my opinion athletics is over-rated these days. That is the sole thing guys are drafted on and often bust. Anyone can hit the gym not everyone can consistantly hit an NBA 3. I am pleased with us taking Webster.


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## The Sebastian Express (Mar 3, 2005)

Actually it was a 7 inch improvement, I believe. Chicago pre-draft listed his vertical at 31.5 or so. Portland measured him at a 1 foot/step vertical of 38 inches.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

38 inch vertical seems pretty athletic to me...but we got outlaw,telly and the russians....and they are athletic...web is juss that shooter we need for the future


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

None of us have really seen much of Webster, only small highlights, so its hard to judge his athleticism right now. I think after we see him in the summer league, then we'll have a better feel of how athletic he is.


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## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

I sure hope he turns out to be better than Walt Williams though, who was only a good bench player. I'm hoping he'll be on the Steve Smith or Glen Rice level.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I think Jay Bilas compared him to Dale Ellis. I would take that any day.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

tlong said:


> I think Jay Bilas compared him to Dale Ellis. I would take that any day.


I will be thrilled if Webster turns out to be as good a shooter as Ellis was.

If you are younger you may not realize that Ellis is easily one of the ten best outside shooters the NBA has ever seen.

He had a bit of an up and down career, but was 3rd in the NBA in scoring in 88-89 and at the time he hung up his sneakers held the record for 3 pointers made.


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## YardApe (Mar 10, 2005)

No one thought Horry would be a stud athletically but I'd take him on my team any day of the week. Please also remember that at 18 you can still grow a bit. I grew 2 inches from 18 to 21. This kid could end up at 6'9 and simply be able to back down any two guard in this league.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I actually really like the comparisons to Glenn Rice from an athletic standpoint....Young Glenn Rice who was actually pretty athletic.


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## jwhoops11 (Nov 26, 2003)

I said this in another thread, but I think Webster reminds me of Mitch Richmond a little bit. Although, a much taller version of Mitch, he looks sneaky athletic to me. One of those players that will kill you from the outside, and then when his defender isn't expecting it get by you for a lay in. 

Someone else on the ESPN show last night said Dennis Scott. Hopefully that was a stretch, becuase D3 was worthless 80% of the time he was on the court.


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## Buck Williams (May 16, 2004)

Everyone raves about Gerald Greens athleticism but Martell tested just below him in a few things and beat him in a few things so I dont know why anyone would say he was unathletic he had a better sprint test than Green


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Webster is also quite young. He will likely get stronger and quicker as he matures. I'm sure Gerald Green has better hops now, than he did a year ago.
Also, Webster may improve with the conditioning of NBA. Once he hits the weights and starts working out more he will likely slim down (and bulk up?) some. At 18, he could also grow some more.

I would like to see video of him guarding Nate and Rashad at his tryout. I'm having a hard time picturing that. I can't imagine two guy who would be much harder for Martell to guard than those two.


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## Rip City Road Blocker (Jul 23, 2004)

Reep said:


> I would like to see video of him guarding Nate and Rashad at his tryout. I'm having a hard time picturing that. I can't imagine two guy who would be much harder for Martell to guard than those two.


I agree, thats pretty impressive. The ESPN guys were still doubting his defensive abilities last night though.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

Webster being unathletic is relative. The guy is more athletic than 99.8% percent of the population. Just Green is an athletic freak along the lines of Outlaw, making everyone seem lower in ability. Green can play too, but I guess we like the skillset and niche that Webster is in. I have no problems drafting him and think that he'll be a really good player.

It'd be cool if he grew another inch too....they should check his growth plates.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

I sure hope Webster turn out to be better than Walt Williams. Walt was as STREAKY as they come!! I like the Dale Ellis or Glenn Rice comparisons much better.


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## Webster's Dictionary (Feb 26, 2004)

I see Webster as being the younger, athletic version of a #8 for us a few years ago, Steve Smith.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I asked John Nash about Webster and how important being super athletic was, and he said 

"He is as athletic as Larry Bird was."


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I think that being injured in his Junior year hurt his atheletic ability in the short term. Everything I have heard is that he healed up fine, but it takes a long time to build yourself back up to be tops atheletically. I sure hope that he excels.


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## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

Hap said:


> I asked John Nash about Webster and how important being super athletic was, and he said
> 
> "He is as athletic as Larry Bird was."



And Larry Bird was a "bubububuuummm" SMALL FORWARD.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Blazerben4 said:


> Everyone raves about Gerald Greens athleticism but Martell tested just below him in a few things and beat him in a few things so I dont know why anyone would say he was unathletic he had a better sprint test than Green


No he didn't... GG posted a 3.21 to MW's 3.39 in the 3/4 court sprint. The only thing that Web posted better then Green was having a 1.25" advantage in wingspan and many measurable things he trailed considerably. The reason I (and I suspect others) have called him unathletic is how poorly he graded out in the combine... near the very bottom and below many centers.

I hope the Bird athletic comparison that Nash supposively made is way off base.

STOMP


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Calling Webster unathletic is way off-base. Tip-in jams, ally oops and smooth reverse layups are part of his offensive repertoire. He may not be Travis Outlaw or Gerlad Green athletic but he's not Dennis Scott or Matt Bullard either.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Calling Webster unathletic is way off-base. Tip-in jams, ally oops and smooth reverse layups are part of his offensive repertoire. He may not be Travis Outlaw or Gerlad Green athletic but he's not Dennis Scott or Matt Bullard either.


Going on what we know (combine rusults), Webster is unathletic compared to his those in his draft class. He finished the combine ranked 59th of the 75 prospects... or in other words 79% of those he competed against ranked ahead of him. Actual NBA players are even more athletic and the 2 guard spot is probably the position with the best overall athletes. 

Sorry if this isn't what you'd like to be reading (it's not what I'd like to be relaying either), but I'm not going to sugarcoat the few facts we have to go on. Another fact which may have had some effect on his very poor combine showing is that he pulled out of several workouts just prior to the draft siting problems in his surgically repaired ankle... possibly that was holding him back? It wasn't that he was honoring a secret promise by Nash either, as he still met with team officials, he just reportedly didn't work out. Anyways, he's Portland's now and we'll get to see him tomorrow for real and start to generate truely informed opinions.

STOMP


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## Bookworm (Feb 23, 2005)

What's with this athletic stuff...Woods was Athletic so
are alot of busts..What counts is your ability to play..

Hornachek/Stockton/Bird/Magic/Kerr the Paxsons the list
is endless of great to solid players who aren't the most
athletic..

The ? should be who do you compare his style of play to...

You don't see high jumpers, olympic sprinters or weight
lifters in the NBA. If you go by Athletic then Nate Robinson
should have been #1..Have you ever seen a 5'8 guy dunk
before? He has the best hops in the NBA...

I agree with the Steve Smith comparision, but I would
give the edge to Martell in all comparisions with the
exception of posting up and backing down players..


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Going on what we know (combine rusults), Webster is unathletic compared to his those in his draft class. He finished the combine ranked 59th of the 75 prospects... or in other words 79% of those he competed against ranked ahead of him. Actual NBA players are even more athletic and the 2 guard spot is probably the position with the best overall athletes.
> 
> Sorry if this isn't what you'd like to be reading (it's not what I'd like to be relaying either), but I'm not going to sugarcoat the few facts we have to go on. Another fact which may have had some effect on his very poor combine showing is that he pulled out of several workouts just prior to the draft siting problems in his surgically repaired ankle... possibly that was holding him back? It wasn't that he was honoring a secret promise by Nash either, as he still met with team officials, he just reportedly didn't work out. Anyways, he's Portland's now and we'll get to see him tomorrow for real and start to generate truely informed opinions.
> 
> STOMP


Going on what I know, he's not an "unathletic" player. And what I know isnt just combine stats, I've SEEN him play and his game is far from being "unathletic". <O

Sorry if you don’t like reading someone's opinion that has actually watched him play but when you labeled him as "unathletic" I’m going to speak up and defend his game because it's simple not true. I’m not saying he's some crazy athletic freak like Green but he can and does play above the rim at times which is something "unatheltic" players don’t do.<O</O


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Bookworm said:


> What's with this athletic stuff...Woods was Athletic so
> are alot of busts..What counts is your ability to play..


Of course there is more then one way to get things done, no one has contended otherwise... but you aren't contending that athletism isn't important are you? Why do they hold the combine if it isn't deemed important by NBA talent evaluators? Need me to point out the scores of skilled players without NBA athletism that didn't make the league or were only able to clap?

BTW, Woods did not test out as very athletic either. He finished his respective combine ranked 41st, and actually posted an even slower lane agility test then Webster. Bad example IMO.

Anyways, someone did post this thread about Webster's atheltic ability, and we're just discussing what we know. Thats OK isn't it?

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Going on what I know, he's not an "unathletic" player. And what I know isnt just combine stats, I've SEEN him play and his game is far from being "unathletic". <O
> 
> Sorry if you don’t like reading someone's opinion that has actually watched him play but when you labeled him as "unathletic" I’m going to speak up and defend his game because it's simple not true. I’m not saying he's some crazy athletic freak like Green but he can and does play above the rim at times which is something "unatheltic" players don’t do.<O</O


I've called him unathletic compared to his fellow 2005 prospects... thats a fact that you can't dispute. He posted slower times in the drills and a very low verticle compared to his competition... many/most of whom won't stick in the league for long if at all.

I've little doubt that he'd stand out and appear athletic compared to the HS guys you might have seen him play against... I bet he appeared taller then most too... but it's a bit different in the league. Hopefully his skills make up for some of his shortcomings. 

STOMP


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

STOMP said:


> I've called him unathletic compared to his fellow 2005 prospects... thats a fact that you can't dispute. He posted slower times in the drills and a very low verticle compared to his competition... many/most of whom won't stick in the league for long if at all.
> 
> I've little doubt that he'd stand out and appear athletic compared to the HS guys you might have seen him play against... I bet he appeared taller then most too... but it's a bit different in the league. Hopefully his skills make up for some of his shortcomings.
> 
> STOMP


 
Yea man your right. Reading stats from the combine is much better way to evaluate a players game then actually seeing them play. And I'm sure those ally-oop dunks and tip jams were ONLY the result of playing against HS kids. Once he gets in the NBA he'll never do any of those things again and become the second coming of Wesley Person.

I guess I've been drinking too much kool-aid.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

STOMP said:


> I've little doubt that he'd stand out and appear athletic compared to the HS guys you might have seen him play against... I bet he appeared taller then most too...*but it's a bit different in the league. Hopefully his skills make up for some of his shortcomings. *
> 
> STOMP


and yet, the combines aren't different?


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## GrandpaBlaze (Jul 11, 2004)

Yah know, I don't particularly care how athletic he is. Sure, he has to have a reasonable amount of athleticism but I feel confident he has that.

What I am most concerned about him having are 1) skills and 2) BBall IQ.

I figure if he is smart, he will make the most of his skills and know his limits. I also want someone who hates to lose. 

From what I have read, Webster has good skills (and we'll know better as he does the summer games) but am not sure about the IQ portion. Sure he'll make rookie mistakes, but will he learn from them? How quickly?

Gramps...


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Yea man your right. Reading stats from the combine is much better way to evaluate a players game then actually seeing them play. And I'm sure those ally-oop dunks and tip jams were ONLY the result of playing against HS kids. Once he gets in the NBA he'll never do any of those things again and become the second coming of Wesley Person.
> 
> I guess I've been drinking too much kool-aid.


Apparently something is messing with your perceptions of whats being written and coming up with wierd left field accusations. Lots of players who are considered unathletic compared to other NBA players can do tip in dunks, alley opps and reverse layups... I'd be amazed if Wesley Person was not easily capable of this too, especially against HS players. Unless something was seriously amiss when MW posted his combine numbers, with a very inferior vertical jumpreach, he won't be making his living up above the rim as most players are going to be able to do that better then him.

I once saw GP play in a Bay Area summer league game against other talents with ties to the area. Though I've never seen him dunk in a NBA game (even on breakaways) he threw down multiple times that day against the college and lessor talents that showed up... in traffic too. I took that to mean that while Gary is very capable of dunking, thats not what earned him his status in the league. Not having above average hops, he had to find/concentrate on the other things that made him such a superior player. 

Obviously there has been successful 2 guards with less then average hops and atheltism... RIP is one of my listed favorite players and I don't see him throwing down much outside of breakaways or dominating through superior physicallity... all I'm saying is that if the combine is an accurate measure of Martell's athletism, he's going to have to find other ways to get things done.

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Hap said:


> and yet, the combines aren't different?


I've no idea what you're asking/pointing out

STOMP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

STOMP said:


> I've no idea what you're asking/pointing out
> 
> STOMP


how he was in high school is different than how he'll be in the NBA (thats a given) but the combine doesn't show how he'll be or if he's as athletic as others.

So to me, the combine isn't that terribly important. It's not the same as the NBA.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Apparently something is messing with your perceptions of whats being written and coming up with wierd left field accusations. Lots of players who are considered unathletic compared to other NBA players can do tip in dunks, alley opps and reverse layups... I'd be amazed if Wesley Person was not easily capable of this too, especially against HS players. Unless something was seriously amiss when MW posted his combine numbers, with a very inferior vertical jumpreach, he won't be making his living up above the rim as most players are going to be able to do that better then him.
> 
> I once saw GP play in a Bay Area summer league game against other talents with ties to the area. Though I've never seen him dunk in a NBA game (even on breakaways) he threw down multiple times that day against the college and lessor talents that showed up... in traffic too. I took that to mean that while Gary is very capable of dunking, thats not what earned him his status in the league. Not having above average hops, he had to find/concentrate on the other things that made him such a superior player.
> 
> ...


 
Your definition of unathletic is different then mine. Someone who I consider unathletic in the NBA can't do some of the things I've seen Webster do at any level. Webster is like a young Steve Smith. Smith didn't blow anyone away with his athleticism but I don't think you'd find anyone calling his game unathletic. 

I guess what it boils down to is, I trust my eyes more then your combine numbers.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Hap said:


> how he was in high school is different than how he'll be in the NBA (thats a given) but the combine doesn't show how he'll be or if he's as athletic as others.


No it doesn't show how he'll be eventually, it shows only what he was capable of on that day. On that day, most every prospect guard and forward posted faster times in the drills and higher verts. The only reason I chimed in on this discussion from a few days back was some of the silly posts claiming that he'd actually posted good numbers at the combine.

Of course actual NBA players are even more athletic then this year's prospects. On the other side of the argument, at only 18, Martell has many years before he'll reach his athletic peak. As I've said prior, it's possible that his ankle was holding him back that day at the combine. 

We'll get a sneak peak at how athletic he is currently tomorrow vs the Knicks.

STOMP


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

> Who would you compare Webster's athletic ablity with?


I would compare them with mine, but I fear I would not come out too well in the comparison.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

STOMP said:


> No it doesn't show how he'll be eventually, it shows only what he was capable of on that day. On that day, most every prospect guard and forward posted faster times in the drills and higher verts. The only reason I chimed in on this discussion from a few days back was some of the silly posts claiming that he'd actually posted good numbers at the combine.
> 
> Of course actual NBA players are even more athletic then this year's prospects. On the other side of the argument, at only 18, Martell has many years before he'll reach his athletic peak. As I've said prior, it's possible that his ankle was holding him back that day at the combine.


I agree (about his ankle). That really limits how fast one can run, or how much effort you put into things. Neither high school or the combine paints a valid picture of him. I dont know if he's athletic or not (nor do I care if he's as athletic as green).



> We'll get a sneak peak at how athletic he is currently tomorrow vs the Knicks.
> 
> STOMP


this is the story of my blazer season going here. I try to put together some kind of "draft party" with some of us and the blazers, and they do a cool thing at Hayden Lakes (altho it, imho, was a poor choice of location)..And then I have to be in Idaho to deliver a boat so I can't go. And then the guys who I was planning to go with (they know who they are) wimped out and didn't even go to the event in the FIRST place.

Then I ask (a long time ago) if the Blazers were going to broadcast the games in the summer league. Of course, having the power that I do have, they are going to broadcast them (tape delayed of course). Thats good, cept I will be in San Diego, and I doubt they'll be telecasted on the internet.

And even the games that ARE on NBA TV, are delayed a week...


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Your definition of unathletic is different then mine. Someone who I consider unathletic in the NBA can't do some of the things I've seen Webster do at any level. Webster is like a young Steve Smith. Smith didn't blow anyone away with his athleticism but I don't think you'd find anyone calling his game unathletic.
> 
> I guess what it boils down to is, I trust my eyes more then your combine numbers.


Nah, I think we have different definitions of what athletic means in terms of evaluating NBA players. Steve Smith was unathletic in my eyes after he wrecked his knee early on in his career (I think that was his 2nd year). It was his superior skills and coordination that made him a stud on the offensive end. I thought his lack of athletism (relative to other NBA 2/3s) is largely what made him an inferior defensive player for most of his career though. I hope that Martell's ankle problems don't limit his ability like SS's knees limited his.

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Hap said:


> this is the story of my blazer season going here. I try to put together some kind of "draft party" with some of us and the blazers, and they do a cool thing at Hayden Lakes (altho it, imho, was a poor choice of location)..And then I have to be in Idaho to deliver a boat so I can't go. And then the guys who I was planning to go with (they know who they are) wimped out and didn't even go to the event in the FIRST place.
> 
> Then I ask (a long time ago) if the Blazers were going to broadcast the games in the summer league. Of course, having the power that I do have, they are going to broadcast them (tape delayed of course). Thats good, cept I will be in San Diego, and I doubt they'll be telecasted on the internet.
> 
> And even the games that ARE on NBA TV, are delayed a week...


Ha! Cal Fish and Game is making me go into the Sierras for a week starting tomorrow (those bleeps!), but I've zero access to NBA TV out here in podunk anyways... I'm looking forward to reading how ya'll feel the various young players look though... especially Ned. 

STOMP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

STOMP said:


> Ha! Cal Fish and Game is making me go into the Sierras for a week starting tomorrow (those bleeps!), but I've zero access to NBA TV out here in podunk anyways... I'm looking forward to reading how ya'll feel the various young players look though... especially Ned.
> 
> STOMP


truth be told, I'd rather be in Idaho than watching the draft anyways.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

I'd say his athletic ability is comparable to mine. Except that he's much more athletic. Quicker, faster, stronger, can jump higher, etc.

But other than that, he's pretty similar to me.


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## Bookworm (Feb 23, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Of course there is more then one way to get things done, no one has contended otherwise... but you aren't contending that athletism isn't important are you? Why do they hold the combine if it isn't deemed important by NBA talent evaluators? Need me to point out the scores of skilled players without NBA athletism that didn't make the league or were only able to clap?
> 
> BTW, Woods did not test out as very athletic either. He finished his respective combine ranked 41st, and actually posted an even slower lane agility test then Webster. Bad example IMO.
> 
> ...


 No problem discussing his athletic ability, just wanted to point
out that Being athletic isn't a end all..Just being athletic isn't
enough...Personaly I think athleticism should be 3rd or 4th 
on the measuring stick..

Footwork/Brians and the ability to anticapate are right up
there..granted if you test evenly on those 3 then yes your
athletic ability should put you over the top...

I don't want to debate combines because we can all find
gems that were undrafted or on the other hand were busts
that went in the top 10..


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## Kopay (Jun 28, 2005)

TheoSaysNo said:


> I see Webster as being the younger, athletic version of a #8 for us a few years ago, Steve Smith.


After watching the highlights tonight of the first summer league game, the first guy that came to my mind was Steve Smith. His fast break pull up jumper made me feel like a was experiencing an episode of de ja vu. The way Smitty would just flick the wrist while getting just a tiny bit of elevation, it was all in Webster's game. It's nice to see he doesn't need to get high on his jumper. That will help him when he's getting gumby legs. 

Even though I only saw about 3 plays that Webster was involved in, I don't think there's a better comparison than Steve Smith so far.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

Steve Smith has been the person I've thought of all along. He wasn't particularly "athletic", but he had good size, was a sniper shooter, and got the job done on both ends of the court. I don't see why Webster is any different. Do I think he is going to be a Top-5 Talent....no. But, I think that he'll be a really good player for many years to come.

Besides, there is only so much genetics can get you. Under an NBA regimen of diet and weights, who knows how "athletic" this guy can become. I know that people at 18 can still increase their sprint speed and vert.


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