# Jalen for the Williams and Mo Pete (merged)



## Modena360 (May 22, 2003)

*Jalen for the Williams and Mo Pete*

Is J-Crawford involved? This was reported WGN radio today. Antonio Davis might be involved as well. But this is for real!!

Pax is getting rid of $13M/yr crap !!


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

The deal will be:

TO TORONTO: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, Marcus Fizer, and another player.

TO CHICAGO: Antonio Davis, Alvin Williams, Jerome Williams, Morris Peterson.

Should happen by 6PM EST earliest, and 10PM EST latest.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> The deal will be:
> 
> TO TORONTO: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, Marcus Fizer, and another player.
> ...


I sure as hell hope not though, :dead: 


Im sure theres a better deal somewhere, besides this.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

Why get rid of Marshall and Fizer? Marshall has been one of our most motivated players?


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

I really like this deal if we indeed get Antonio Davis. JYD and Davis will improve are defense and make us one of the better rebounding teams of league. Isn't there an saying about never trading big for small?


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

*
THIS JUST IN ----- REPORT:::

TO TORONTO:
JALEN ROSE
DONYELL MARSHALL
EDDIE ROBINSON

TO CHICAGO
JEROME WILLIAMS
ALVIN WILLIAMS
MORRIS PETERSON
ANTONIO DAVIS


TRADE TO HAPPEN AFTER CHICAGO-LA LAKERS GAME TONIGHT.
*


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> *
> THIS JUST IN ----- REPORT:::
> 
> ...


And where did that info come from? Thanks!


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Give me a source please!

I like getting rid of Erobs contract. I like Mopete and I like the size we get in this deal. We are now monsterous in the east as far as size if this deal is true.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Jerome Williams will add a lot of energy to the Bulls. He will be a big addition. I am not so sure about the other guys being considered. I guess Davis could be useful in certain situations, as well as Mo Pete and Alvin Williams.

Giving up Rose, Marshall, and Robinson (if this is true) doesn't bode well in my book when all the Bulls are getting are role players at best. Cap space has not shown to have been kind to the Bulls in the past, and I haven't seen what the cap ramifications are, but maybe it would be worth it, for that reason.


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## the_disco_pimp (Jul 25, 2002)

*Huge Trade! Omg Yes!*

90% going to happen tonight!


Rose, Yell, + Erobbery for


Antonio davis, MoPete, Jerome Williams and the other williams.


thoughts?

I love MoPete personally, have since he was in college. standout SG that we need


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I think if thats the deal we get really big and a great rbnd team especcially in the east.

what i like about it that they r all tough D players and we sure need that!
we dont really dump sallary we just overpay different players who r probly a better suit for us cause we need the fighters.

I won't be surprized if there is another deal following involving JC and even EC (Cuban would probly be the highest Bidder)to maby get another scorer.

but what about BC?

is he gonna get another chance?


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

This trade reminds me of the one we made w/ Indy. 

Artest=Mo Pete
B Miller=Antonio Davis
Ollie= Alvin Williams
and JYD is just the icing on the cake

The more I think about this trade, the more I like it


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

any news on your side? i haven't heard anything here that's any a different.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> Jerome Williams will add a lot of energy to the Bulls. He will be a big addition. I am not so sure about the other guys being considered. I guess Davis could be useful in certain situations, as well as Mo Pete and Alvin Williams.
> 
> Giving up Rose, Marshall, and Robinson (if this is true) doesn't bode well in my book when all the Bulls are getting are role players at best. Cap space has not shown to have been kind to the Bulls in the past, and I haven't seen what the cap ramifications are, but maybe it would be worth it, for that reason.


Getting rid of a perennial ball hog, injury prone aging player and a guy whose name depicts what he did to the Bulls payroll, bodes VERY well in MY book. ALTHOUGH, I read it was just Marshall and Rose for Both Williams, Peterson AND AD. Not sure if the salaries work out, but that is what I have read from WGN news. I like it. FIzer...no, I would not like it if HE IS included. I like what BOTH WIlliams will bring, as well as what Morris Petersen COULD be. AD...He might still be pissed we did not offer him the big cash way back when the Bulls were begging a top tier player to come to chicago. Bottom line, ROSE leaving, makes me hard.:yes:


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*JYD.....*



> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> This trade reminds me of the one we made w/ Indy.
> 
> Artest=Mo Pete
> ...


just MIGHT be the best part of the deal in my book. MAYBE, just MAYBE, CURRY can see how rebounding is done with a little ENTHUSIASM!!!


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Do we really get cap space? Where's NCBullsfan????

HELP!!!

(he needs a batman signal or something)


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Curry is .....*



> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> I think if thats the deal we get really big and a great rbnd team especcially in the east.
> 
> what i like about it that they r all tough D players and we sure need that!
> ...


....not going anywhere. BANK on it.:grinning:


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Great News.......for the Raptors!!!
They will finally make the Playoffs and take one spot that could, possibly, belong to the Bulls. They also open some space for Bosh, that is playing great ball. 
And that means Eddy will score 20 a game from now on, since Rose will be outta here, same with Marshall.

Really, I dont like it. I like JYD, but that is it. Moreover, getting Alvin Williams means JC may be out of here rather sooner than later. 

With Antonio Davis and JYD on board, Fizer becomes somewhat expendable, so Fizer+Crawford could net us another player (s).

BTW: E-Rob has a small fracture in his right hand (I think), so are the Raps still going for it?

Again, I see Toronto as a Playoff team if they make this trade.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Curry is .....*



> Originally posted by <b>BamaBull</b>!
> 
> 
> ....not going anywhere. BANK on it.:grinning:


I just said its a feeling.

I hope u r right!


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Just heard it on WGN*

the deal is "inching closer to completion" and could be done early tomorrow.

It does right now include, Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall and EROB for Alvin and Jerome Williams, Morris Petersen and Antonio Davis.

They went on to say that Rose WOULD play against the Lakers tonight. Can anyone say, "injury?" NO GOD, PLEASE??


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

If Rose knows about this, I see him going 5-25 from the Field against the Lakers tonight.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

*With the addition of Alvin Williams.....*

.....did Jamal just become a shooting guard? 

Man the lineups you could throw on the court would fun....

Speed.
PG Hinrich
SG Jamal
SF Mo P
PF JYD
C Chandler

Bigman
PG A Williams
SG Pippen
SF Mo P
PF A Davis
C Curry

Vets

PG A Williams
SG Pip
SF Gill
PF JYD
C Davis

etc....

my head is spinning, please let this deal go down


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

If this is true, which by all indications it appears that it isn't, does any one really care? I really don't care about any of the players involved, nor think they will be substantial contributors (with the 1 in a 1000 exception on Mo Pete) should the Bulls ever become contenders. When the Artest trade went down I felt violated, now I just feel a general melaise.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*SO?*



> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> If Rose knows about this, I see him going 5-25 from the Field against the Lakers tonight.


whats new?:yes:


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

But BC won't do that!!!

Why do people suddenly think BC is gonna play Jamal at sg? He never has before. He didn't with Jay. He won't with Kirk. Why will he now?

He should but I doubt BC is that smart. If he does do it then why didn't he before?:upset:


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## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

i wouldnt be surprised if u guys lead the league in rebounding....
AD+JYD+Chandler...... thats one hell of a reboundin team...



as far as the raps go.....we finally get someone who can put the ball in the freakin hole!!!!(besides Vince of course)


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

Does this mean they're turning JC into the SG of the future? 

I like JYD and Davis but what happens to Eddy and Tyson. Those two are the future. Does Williams play backup PF? If so, what happens to Fizer. Does Antonio play backup center or does he start and retard Eddy's growth big time?

Alvin has played like complete crap this season and I think MoPete has as well. I don't understand the motive behind this trade.

If Eddy and Tyson are the future, why get good players that will most likely outplay them and force them both to the bench?

Does trading Jalen away put JC at the SG? 

What's the starting 5 if this happens.

Williams, Hinrich
JC, Gill
MoPete, Pippen
Chandler, WIlliams
Curry, Davis

I don't like it. I'd rather get a beter coach and keep the guys we have before making a big trade including the best player on the team. Who's the go to guy?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

so everyone is 90% sure this deal is done?


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*uh, YEAH, I do.*



> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> If this is true, which by all indications it appears that it isn't, does any one really care? I really don't care about any of the players involved, nor think they will be substantial contributors (with the 1 in a 1000 exception on Mo Pete) should the Bulls ever become contenders. When the Artest trade went down I felt violated, now I just feel a general melaise.


Krause SHOULD have known that Rose was a "whiner" when he was in Indiana, wanting to play PG. Once a whiner, always a whiner. It was obvious to myself at least, Rose NEVER gave Jay Williams a fair shake on the court. He definitely knows the right things to say for the camera, but I watched his play on the court. WHENEVER he gets pissed, just like he will be tonight, he shows his butt! (I hope he drives the lane and shaq puts his butt on the floor...ooops....no, never mind. I HOPE Cartwright sits rose out of this game!!!) Morris Petersen when given the opportunity CAN shoot the ball. JYD, and antonio davis can do NOTHING but provide Curry with MUCH needed tutoring in the art of rebounding!!! Alvin williams is a FINE PG and no, I have never been or am I now convinced of Crawfords abilities. Do I even have to mention what a freeking disappointment EROB has been? Big toe indeed. What a lame act. Donyell Marshall has been a class act as far as I know but seems to be injury prone(however minor) and a streaky shooter at best. THIS would be a FINE upgrade to this team as someone earlier just eluded to all the possible teams the Bulls can put on the court. GO PAXSON!!!:yes:


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> But BC won't do that!!!
> 
> Why do people suddenly think BC is gonna play Jamal at sg? He never has before. He didn't with Jay. He won't with Kirk. Why will he now?
> ...


Lizzy,

Mr Bill has played Jamal in the back court as a shooting guard. 
We saw Jay and Jamal down the stretch last season and we've have witnessed Kirk and Jamal together this season. 

If this trade goes down, Jamal is lessened of a role model. I think if anything, this trade might help Jamal as a basketball player.


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## SteveHartfiel (Jun 8, 2003)

Hey I just heard that the deal may be between Robinson or Fizer... so it would look like

rose..marshall....robinson/fizer

For

AD....AW.....JYD......Mopete


If the raptors get fizer instead itll be a steal... what do u all think?


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*ESPN is reporting....*

that it is actually TWO deals. the first has Rose going to toronto for Alvin and Jerome Williams, AND Morris Petersen. The second is Marshall for Antonio Davis. Does it make any more sense as two deals???:no:


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

No b/c Davis is paid a lot more and isn't as good as Marshall.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

LOL... this is a terrible trade. I just checked the stats of Alvin and MoPete and they're beyond awful. All this trade does is stock our centers and power forwards. Chandler and Curry need playing time to succeed but that won't be possible with Davis, JYD, and Fizer all on the same team. Not to mention scrubs like Lonny Baxter and Corie Blount who Cartwright has an obligation to play.

Oh lord, if this trade goes down, our perimeter is terrible. Unless they're going to make JC the SG and go to guy on offense on the perimeter(which I highly doubt after seeing the way he's been treated by BC and Pax) than I don't see anything good coming from 1 2 or 3 positions.

Hinrich isn't a scorer, Gill has shot well but certainly isn't a dependable scorer like Rose, Pippen can't score, Crawford can but isn't allowed to, and Alvin and Peterson are averaging about 8 points combined in Toronto. Shooting about 20% and 40% respectively. 

:sigh: Terrible trade. I guess Pax will try anything to get his buddy Cartwright another chance.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JAF311</b>!
> LOL... this is a terrible trade. I just checked the stats of Alvin and MoPete and they're beyond awful. All this trade does is stock our centers and power forwards. Chandler and Curry need playing time to succeed but that won't be possible with Davis, JYD, and Fizer all on the same team. Not to mention scrubs like Lonny Baxter and Corie Blount who Cartwright has an obligation to play.
> 
> Oh lord, if this trade goes down, our perimeter is terrible. Unless they're going to make JC the SG and go to guy on offense on the perimeter(which I highly doubt after seeing the way he's been treated by BC and Pax) than I don't see anything good coming from 1 2 or 3 positions.
> ...


:yes:

Not to mention A Davis' 35% from the field! Whoo Hoo!!!!


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> :yes:
> ...


LOL, I didn't even see that.

It'll take about 2 months before people who wanted Rose gone to start complaining about the lack of offense on this team.

PS. Can we merge the two threads about the Rose trade?


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## XXXCalade (Jul 4, 2003)

Personally I would be really excited if this trade happens but I dont think it is going to. I hate when people say it sgonna happen after the game tonight and don't give a source. I mean come on dont get me all excited if you are lying. At least prove it. But just for the record I would love it and Go Bulls!


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

Alvin Williams is 42% field goal shooterl, using this season's numbers are too small of a sample size. I would be more worried about Mo Pete's fg % than A Williams.

This team is seriously lacking toughness and adding Davis and JYD, addresses the Bulls number one weakness. Pax was looking at O Harrington and Tyrone Hill to help the interior. JYD and Antoino Davis are huge upgrades over the Hill and Harrington.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> Alvin Williams is 42% field goal shooterl, using this season's numbers are too small of a sample size. I would be more worried about Mo Pete's fg % than A Williams.
> 
> This team is seriously lacking toughness and adding Davis and JYD, addresses the Bulls number one weakness. Pax was looking at O Harrington and Tyrone Hill to help the interior. JYD and Antoino Davis are huge upgrades over the Hill and Harrington.


How is Eddy, Tyson, Fizer, JYD, and Davis going to get significant playing time?

Who's the go to guy? Who's the leader? Jalen was both.

If this goes down, I'll change my sig to the "official fire BC AND Pax" club.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*U R RIGHT!*



> Originally posted by <b>SteveHartfiel</b>!
> Hey I just heard that the deal may be between Robinson or Fizer... so it would look like
> 
> rose..marshall....robinson/fizer
> ...


Fizer included, I say NO!

EROB? Hell yes!!!


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

Here's a negative to the deal. Alvin Williams and JYD will be making over 6 million for the next *5* years.


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## rpolsb (Nov 21, 2003)

I think this is going to be a 3-way deal. Mopete going to NYK for a big man (Othella and/or Travis Knight). 

Bulls get Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, and Antonio Davis
Knicks get Mopete
Raptors get Rose, Donyell, Fizer, and Othella


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

if this trade goes down...

the window has just been slammed for us to make the playoffs.:sigh:


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## Bigballershotcaller (Apr 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> This trade reminds me of the one we made w/ Indy.
> 
> Artest=Mo Pete
> ...


um no im a raptor fan and watch them all the time artest=mo pete:laugh: you gotta be kidding me mo -pete is so streaky he's benched half the time.I will miss Jyd he's great.Antonio davis did equal brad miller but now he's turning into a jahdi white type yikes.Alvin=ollie are you serious alvin is alot better than that but he is always injured though but always plays throughout it which is good.And salary cap space where did u guys get that take a look at ad's contract along with williams unless Erob has a monster contract i don't know about


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## Bigballershotcaller (Apr 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rpolsb</b>!
> I think this is going to be a 3-way deal. Mopete going to NYK for a big man (Othella and/or Travis Knight).
> 
> Bulls get Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, and Antonio Davis
> ...


as a raptors fan done othella is a bumb but fizer still has potential plus eddie robinson's contract won't be their does that work cap wise


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bigballershotcaller</b>!
> 
> 
> um no im a raptor fan and watch them all the time artest=mo pete:laugh: you gotta be kidding me mo -pete is so streaky he's benched half the time.I will miss Jyd he's great.Antonio davis did equal brad miller but now he's turning into a jahdi white type yikes.Alvin=ollie are you serious alvin is alot better than that but he is always injured though but always plays throughout it which is good.And salary cap space where did u guys get that take a look at ad's contract along with williams unless Erob has a monster contract i don't know about


:heart: :dead: :sour: :no:


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

I'm a fan of any permutation of this deal. We will be bringing in selfless veterans who do the little things to help a team win, and eliminating the offensive vacuums that often kill our team.

Alvin Williams and JYD are both excellent role players. Williams plays very solid defense and can guard the 1 or 2. He hits the midrange jumper with consistency. He doesn't turn the ball over. He would create a nice three man rotation with JC and KH. He also allows Jamal to move over exclusively to SG and begin to help this team the way he should -- as a scorer.

JYD averages 10 rpg and plays tough defense. He's a tone setter and will rub off on TC and EC.

Mo-Pete is a nice guy to have on your team. He's a pure shooter from long range and you can play him as much or as little as you want without much complaint.

Davis is getting older, but definitely brings size, defense and toughness. He also gives us a guy who can play backup center.

Don't let any of these guys' microscopic scoring averages this year fool you into thinking they aren't good. O'Neill is a total slow down coach, and for whatever reason has favored some different guys in his rotation.

MoPete averaged 14, ADavis 14, AWilliams 13 and JWilliams 10 last year. Granted, VC was injured, but still these guys showed they are legit scorers/contributors.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bigballershotcaller</b>!
> 
> 
> um no im a raptor fan and watch them all the time artest=mo pete:laugh: you gotta be kidding me mo -pete is so streaky he's benched half the time.I will miss Jyd he's great.Antonio davis did equal brad miller but now he's turning into a jahdi white type yikes.Alvin=ollie are you serious alvin is alot better than that but he is always injured though but always plays throughout it which is good.And salary cap space where did u guys get that take a look at ad's contract along with williams unless Erob has a monster contract i don't know about


BBSC,

I think it's more the sum of the role players aquired vs getting a pseudo max player. The Pacers were a better team by trading away Rose for 3 players that didn't have his "star quality".
Unlike that deal, the Bulls would be trading a quality player in Marshall. 

and despite doing his best Jahidi impersonation, I still like Antonio's 10 boards a night. You will miss the art of rebounding


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> I'm a fan of any permutation of this deal. We will be bringing in selfless veterans who do the little things to help a team win, and eliminating the offensive vacuums that often kill our team.
> 
> Alvin Williams and JYD are both excellent role players. Williams plays very solid defense and can guard the 1 or 2. He hits the midrange jumper with consistency. He doesn't turn the ball over. He would create a nice three man rotation with JC and KH. He also allows Jamal to move over exclusively to SG and begin to help this team the way he should -- as a scorer.
> ...


Great, so we have a team full of role players, a logjam at PF and C, and BC is still coach.  :laugh: :no:


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> BBSC,
> ...


They also had a guy called Jermaine Oneal on the team that was ready to take over.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

Sign up Doc RIVERS and we're set....

Crawford, Chandler & Curry are still the main pieces.....


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...trade,1,1276617.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

The Bulls and Raptors are close to a trade that would send Jalen Rose to Toronto in exchange for forward Jerome Williams, guard Alvin Williams and guard/forward Morris Peterson, according to WGN Radio.

The deal could also include forward Donyell Marshall going to the Raptors with Toronto center Antonio Davis going to the Bulls.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

> Great, so we have a team full of role players, a logjam at PF and C, and BC is still coach.


Actually, getting a bunch of good role players is not necessarily a bad thing. Teams are showing this year that high quality role players can make your team competitive. Look at the Jazz or Warriors.

These Raps players are all high quality role players who basically are not being effective because they are either not being used properly or are just disgruntled and unhappy in Toronto. A change of scenery will probably do wonders for Davis.

The Key to this trade, however, is that by eliminating the power vaccuum that Jalen created it will allow our young guys to start stepping up fill that void. The young bullies held their own pretty well in the preseason without Jalen, Crawford in particular, and I think given this opportunity he will begin to emerge as a 17-18 ppg scorer.

The more good role playing veterans we have who will keep the ship steered in the right direction without interfering with our young guy's emergence as go-to-guys, the better this team will be in the long run.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> The deal will be:
> 
> TO TORONTO: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, Marcus Fizer, and another player.
> ...


That is just a fantastic deal for the Raptors. However, although Davis crowds caproom, and isn't a true C...he was still by far the best C that Toronto had.

Who will start at C now? Mengke Bateer?:dead:


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Foxsports.com has it as Rose and Marshall for JYD, Alvin and Peterson


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JAF311</b>!
> 
> 
> They also had a guy called Jermaine Oneal on the team that was ready to take over.



Oh boy, I am completely terrified at the prospect of replacing Rose. He's a decent player but he's not a superstar or a team leader. 

Jamal can now be the scorer from the outside in Rose's absence and he can even drive to the hole like a jackass and whine about not getting a foul called. Heck, Rose and Jamal are very similar players.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Foxsports.com has it as Rose and Marshall for JYD, Alvin and Peterson


That's my favourite combination so far. I can't see the Bulls wanting three major contracts with AW, JYD, and Davis. I also don't see the Raptors trading our only decent centre for smaller players (unless Fizer is involved).

The trade rumours are roaring right now, and everyone is reporting something a little different. I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> This trade reminds me of the one we made w/ Indy.
> 
> Artest=Mo Pete
> ...


It reminds me of the trade, too, but it's more like

Artest >> Mo Pete
B Miller >> Antonio Davis
Ollie = Alvin Williams
JYD = 0



> The more I think about this trade, the more I like it


Good move for Toronto, but unless Chicago has another deal or two lined up to follow it, it's a bad move for the Bulls IMO.

Ed O.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, getting a bunch of good role players is not necessarily a bad thing. Teams are showing this year that high quality role players can make your team competitive. Look at the Jazz or Warriors.
> ...


Bill Cartwright is NO Jerry Sloan.

There aren't enough minutes to go around for JYD, Chandler, Davis, Curry, and Fizer. Cartwright, the idiot that he is, will most likely bench Curry for Davis because he likes his rebounding. If Eddy and Tyson are the future, they need to play.

It'd make sense for Jamal to play SG but BC won't do that. There isn't any evidence that he will do that. If he doesn't start JC at SG, this team will average around 80ppg.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Why is it that 99% of the Bulls fans are excited about this deal? What have Mo Pete, Alvin, JYD (I like him) done so far in their carrers? Rose and Marshall are more than solid, they will only help the Raptors get closer to the Playoffs. Marshall is underrated and Rose could thrive with Vince as sidekick. 

Advantage Raptors

:upset:


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


O'neal was the number one guy there when they traded Rose for role players.

Rose is the number one guy now. Trading him for role players doesn't help. Maybe if Eddy was averaging 19ppg and Jamal was actually playing and averaging 16-17ppg, then I'd feel much better. 

Jamal should be the SG, but do you actually think Cartwright will start him there or give him majority of the minutes? Do you think he'll give him the offensive responsibilty? From what I've seen so far this season, the answer is no. I think Crawford is able to be the SG and primary perimeter scorer, but Cartwright won't think that. His reason will be because he can't defend opposing 2's.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Davis will be our new starting center within a week. Eddy can sit next to his disgruntled buddy on the bench. It'll be just like last year. Except with fewer wins.

I like this deal for Toronto. This should get them into the playoffs. KO can actually get his guys to play D. And they really just needed some scoring. Which Jalen gives them in spades. Did KO coach Jalen ever? I wasnt sure if he wasn't a Indiana assistant. Anyone know?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Boo.

Hiss.

Fire Paxson Now.

Mo Pete brings outside shooting?

39.3% this year, 39.2% last year. Woo woo!

Alvin Williams is yet another PG who will beat out Jamal for the starting job. Woo woo! At least he shot 43.8% last season.

Jerome Williams? Gotta love those 9.8 RPG he's putting up this season. His defense can't be any worse than Curry or Chandler's. His 5.8 PPG make him the ideal guy to take the last minute shot - NOT!

We've basically undone the Rose deal and gotten back players who are worse than those we got up to get Rose. To top it off, we're going to lose Marshall, who is our 2nd best player.

I guess we can lose with Rose and Marshall or we can lose without them. Lose is what we're going to do, but at least we should play better defense. I hope.

We're going to end up with a lineup out there where A. Williams is our primary offense. You watch.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Why is it that 99% of the Bulls fans are excited about this deal? What have Mo Pete, Alvin, JYD (I like him) done so far in their carrers? Rose and Marshall are more than solid, they will only help the Raptors get closer to the Playoffs. Marshall is underrated and Rose could thrive with Vince as sidekick.
> 
> Advantage Raptors
> ...



It's because 99% of Bulls fans like players that are on other teams until the Bulls trade for them.

And then after about 2 months after the trade, those same people like the players they traded away.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If the Bulls make this deal, this takes them right out of the playoff picture IMO. No go-to guy and streaky players in Curry and Crawford, added to an injured but improved Chandler, aging Pippen and Gill and turnover prone Hinrich, and what am I seeing about this squad that screams playoffs. 

If they make this deal Paxson has some "splaining to do" (In my Ricky Ricardo voice).


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JAF311</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right on the money. We covet, until we get them.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

You fire your coach before you overhaul your team. Especially if your coach hasn't proven jack.

Pax has the guts to make a crappy trade but doesn't have the guts to fire Cartwright. Pretty sad.


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## blizzaw665 (May 23, 2003)

Assuming a trade of Marshall, Rose, and Erob for A. Williams, JYD, MoPete, and A. Davis.
Crawford, Hinrich, A. Williams, (Jay Williams)
Gill, Mason
Pippen, MoPete
Chandler, Fizer, J. Williams, Baxter
Curry, A. Davis, Blount


That leaves us with a MASSIVE logjam at the 4, a logjam at the 5, a logjam at the 1, and a 2 and 3 that has the depth of a paperclip.
I would rather trade Fizer than Marshall because Marshall can play the 3. JYD, A. Williams, A. Davis all have large long term contracts. I don't care for this deal. Toronto has the better of the deal, for sure. Is this the best we can get for Rose???


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## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, getting a bunch of good role players is not necessarily a bad thing. Teams are showing this year that high quality role players can make your team competitive. Look at the Jazz or Warriors.
> ...



Very well put. I hope that this move will open the door for Crawford at SG, which I think is what you're alluding to. having AD also allows our big men to play with a little less pressure to carry the team this season. And it provides a great sparring partner in practice for Curry. It's not a flashy trade, but it's a good one. I'm a little disappointed to see Marshall go, if that does happen. But I think we'll be okay, bcs of the rebounding we get in this trade. marshall has always seemed like a player that could physically break down at any time. Mo P was instrumental in getting the Raps to the playoffs that year that Vince went down. He could turn out to be something special. 

Still wondering how this affects us cap wise.


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## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JAF311</b>!
> 
> 
> O'neal was the number one guy there when they traded Rose for role players.
> ...


Arguing that this trade isn't good because of how BC will miss use the players we receive or retain isn't fair in assessing the value of the trade itself. If BC continues to coach like crap, and if he fails to develop the 3C's as the cornerstone of this franchise then he's gone anyway. what will remain will be the players. That's how i'm looking at this trade.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

*And now, the starting lineup for your chicago bulls*

PG A. Williams 2.6 PPG
SG K. Gill 10.6 PPG
C A. Davis 7.7 PPG
SF S. Pippen 7.4 PPG
PF J. Williams 5.8 PPG


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Why is it that 99% of the Bulls fans are excited about this deal? What have Mo Pete, Alvin, JYD (I like him) done so far in their carrers? Rose and Marshall are more than solid, they will only help the Raptors get closer to the Playoffs. Marshall is underrated and Rose could thrive with Vince as sidekick.
> 
> Advantage Raptors
> ...


If consumated this trade is making a definitive statement to Hinrich, Crawford, Chandler and Curry that the Chicago Bulls future is in their hands. Its these four who are going to have to step up and become prime time players and go-to guys. That's all there is to it. No more leaning on Rose or Marshall down the stretch. The spotlight is entirely and completely on them.

These other guys...Pippen, Gill, Alvin Williams, Jerome Williams, Antonio Davis...are role players and they know it. They're important, but the ex-Raptors know they had their shot to be the nucleus of a title contender in Toronto and things just didn't pan out. So now its time for them to do their part as someone else's supporting cast.

Morris Peterson will be given a one year audition to see if he can lock down the starting SF spot and become an important part of Chicago's future as well.


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## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JAF311</b>!
> You fire your coach before you overhaul your team. Especially if your coach hasn't proven jack.
> 
> Pax has the guts to make a crappy trade but doesn't have the guts to fire Cartwright. Pretty sad.


for all we know Cartwright might already be out of the long term picture for Pax, we just don't know. I don't see this trade as a vote of confidence for Cartwright. I expect him to be gone in due time. Infact pax can really put a stamp on this team by making this trade AND firing BC. That's what I'm hoping will eventually come of all of this.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: And now, the starting lineup for your chicago bulls*



> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> PG A. Williams 2.6 PPG
> SG K. Gill 10.6 PPG
> C A. Davis 7.7 PPG
> ...


I could really cry. That's possibly the worst starting lineup in the NBA. We're going to be like the New York Knicks JV team. A crappy team that is ****ty to watch.

These won't even be loveable losers.


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## Athlon33.6 (Jul 31, 2003)

It's time to win again guys!

:djparty:


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Athlon33.6</b>!
> It's time to win again guys!
> 
> :djparty:


:laugh: :laugh:  

:uhoh:


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blizzaw665</b>!
> Assuming a trade of Marshall, Rose, and Erob for A. Williams, JYD, MoPete, and A. Davis.
> Crawford, Hinrich, A. Williams, (Jay Williams)
> Gill, Mason
> ...


We wouldn't have any more of a logjam at the 4 than we already have. All we're doing at that position is trading Donyell for JYD. We currently have four 4's and we'll still have four after the trade. I don't see having three centers a logjam. A lot of teams carry 3 C's on their roster.
Having said that, I still think if this trade happens that there will be another deal soon after involving one of our frontcourt players for perimeter (a true 3) help.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Guys so many pages!!!! I got dizzy!

What's the real deal???


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>settinUpShop</b>!
> 
> 
> Arguing that this trade isn't good because of how BC will miss use the players we receive or retain isn't fair in assessing the value of the trade itself. If BC continues to coach like crap, and if he fails to develop the 3C's as the cornerstone of this franchise then he's gone anyway. what will remain will be the players. That's how i'm looking at this trade.


Ok, even though BC will misuse JC, Fizer, and Curry, I'll assess the trade without thinking of Cartwright. 

My reaction is the same. I don't like the trade. It doesn't give us cap space. So it's not a "sign Kobe in the offseason trade."

It still doesn't give us a #1 guy. It just stacks the 4 and 5 so badly that Fizer won't get any minutes and Chandler and Curry's starting jobs and minutes are in danger.

The roster is terrible. Pax should have done something better or nothing at all.


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## blizzaw665 (May 23, 2003)

> We wouldn't have any more of a logjam at the 4 than we already have. All we're doing at that position is trading Donyell for JYD. We currently have four 4's and we'll still have four after the trade. I don't see having three centers a logjam. A lot of teams carry 3 C's on their roster.


 I see Marshall as more of a 3, a Corliss Williamson or Radmanovic type. The C is a logjam, simply because Curry and Davis both are true starters, and Blount doesn't have the complete lack of talent for the IR.


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

Bad contracts for bad contracts...

Giving the Bulls only proven scoring option for a bunch of average players.

Don't really see this trade helping either team that much,
besides the Bulls don't have enough minutes for
the players they already have to do a 3 for 4 trade.

Bulls need to do a consolidation trade.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blizzaw665</b>!
> I see Marshall as more of a 3, a Corliss Williamson or Radmanovic type. The C is a logjam, simply because Curry and Davis both are true starters, and Blount doesn't have the complete lack of talent for the IR.


You're right. Before it was Marshall at the 3 and it allowed Chandler to start w/ Fizer at the backup 4. Curry would start and Blount or Chandler be the backup.

If the trade happens, we'd have Fizer, Chandler, JYD at the 4. None of those guys are SF. And we'd have Davis and Curry at the 5. 

That's a logjam.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

The rumour just reported on sportsnet was

1st trade 

Bulls receive - J.Williams, A.Williams and M.Peterson

Raptors receive - J.Rose

2nd trade

Mavs receive - Antonio Davis

Raptors receive - Antawn Jamison, and Tony Delk.


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## blizzaw665 (May 23, 2003)

*Change of plans*

ESPN has just reported that Toronto made 2 deals today. One is Jalen Rose for JYD, A. Williams, and MoPete. The other is Jamison/Delk for A. Davis!!!
DAMN! I was hoping we could get Davis and send him to Dallas for Jamison. Now I really hate this deal


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: Change of plans*



> Originally posted by <b>blizzaw665</b>!
> ESPN has just reported that Toronto made 2 deals today. One is Jalen Rose for JYD, A. Williams, and MoPete. The other is Jamison/Delk for A. Davis!!!
> DAMN! I was hoping we could get Davis and send him to Dallas for Jamison. Now I really hate this deal


Damn/.....


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## Bullsmaniac (Jun 17, 2002)

Is Donyell part of the deal??? I'm not ready to give up on him.


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## blizzaw665 (May 23, 2003)

Toronto is making the playoffs and could be the eastern conference champs.
Delk
Carter
Rose
Jamison
Bosh

It is a small lineup, but that is one step down from the Dallas Mavericks and could definitely take the eastern conference down quick!


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> Here's a negative to the deal. Alvin Williams and JYD will be making over 6 million for the next *5* years.


Not quite true... JYD has a team option for the final year, which we will certainly not pick up, so he comes off the books at the same time Rose does. AW and JYD for Rose saves about $6M against the cap over the course of the contracts.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> The rumour just reported on sportsnet was
> 
> 1st trade
> ...


That's much less good for us


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> The rumour just reported on sportsnet was
> 
> 1st trade
> ...


If these trades are true, then Toronto just became a serious playoff contender.

Rose at PG, Carter at SG, Jamison at SF - that's three serious scorers.

Bosh at C or PF. They are weak at C and PF in a big way.


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Change of plans*



> Originally posted by <b>blizzaw665</b>!
> ESPN has just reported that Toronto made 2 deals today. One is Jalen Rose for JYD, A. Williams, and MoPete. The other is Jamison/Delk for A. Davis!!!
> DAMN! I was hoping we could get Davis and send him to Dallas for Jamison. Now I really hate this deal


If this is the deal, aside from Linton Johnson, who else
is getting cut to fit another player on the roster?

Roger Mason seems like the player likely to get cut,
with Baxter going on IR.

Who else would go on IR?

This trade doesn't improve the Bulls


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I Hope Pax makes another deal for a scorer.

the worst thing we dont get rid of Erob.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=tor

Report: Peterson-to-Knicks in works

According to the Nov. 20 New York Daily News, the long-rumored Morris Peterson to the Knicks deal is ready to happen -- except the Raptors are reluctant to take Othella Harrington in exchange because he has another year left on his contract. The Raptors need a low-post scorer, while the Knicks are desperate for another scoring threat, even one as inconsistent as Peterson. The Raptors apparently also would send another player to the Knicks in the deal, the Daily News reported.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Change of plans*



> Originally posted by <b>ztect</b>!
> 
> 
> If this is the deal, aside from Linton Johnson, who else
> ...


Add Lonnie to the trade and it still checks out. Lint's non guaranteed contract gets cut.

But we still have ERob.


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: Change of plans*



> Originally posted by <b>blizzaw665</b>!
> ESPN has just reported that Toronto made 2 deals today. One is Jalen Rose for JYD, A. Williams, and MoPete. The other is Jamison/Delk for A. Davis!!!
> DAMN! I was hoping we could get Davis and send him to Dallas for Jamison. Now I really hate this deal


Can't happen. Delk was traded to the Mavs with Walker on 10/21. He can't be traded again until 12/20.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*DaBullz I agree wholeheartedly*

People on this board obviously dont know what they are getting. They say the grass is always greener on the other side. As many of you will find out soon the grass we are getting is burnt, dead, and smelly. THis team is gonna struggle to score 80 pts a game against anyone. Be prepared to watch a lot of bad basketball. Paxson is worse than his brother which says a lot.


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## D7 (Nov 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=tor
> 
> Report: Peterson-to-Knicks in works
> ...


That deal has been in the works for over two weeks now, and the Raptors have rejected this trade two days ago.


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## Bigballershotcaller (Apr 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> BBSC,
> ...


12 million a year for ten rebounds a game in a kevin oneill defensive system that emphasis rebounding. enjoy him man:uhoh:


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