# NYK vs DET



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

Preview 

Houston is still out and TT+Nazr are playing.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

great win for us. marbury and Penny came up really big down the stretch


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

you are right HUGE win....

Marbury is awesome,penny played tough and great D,othello played well too....

I was impressed with Sweetney..He looks like if he ever gets in shape he will be verrrrry good...Nice pick by layden

I also like Demarr..he is really smooth..If he can get it to gether,he can be a player


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## Knicks Junkie (Aug 21, 2003)

Unbelieveable win. We let them back into the game, but Starbury and Penny were straight up clutch. 

Our next game is Friday against Utah, so that should give us an ample amount of time to somewhat integrate Thomas and Mohammed into our system. By the beginning of March, I expect them to be making big contributions. I like what I saw from Thomas tonight though.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

DerMarr had a nasty block on the break throwing bob suras layup off the glass.

sweetney played well in limited minutes, getting some offensive boards, and making a wild shot. 

Frank Williams had his confidence grow in the first half, but then he lost all of it as the pistons tightened up their defense...

Didnt see Nazr Mohammed tonight, thought he would get some minutes but Othella did great anyways.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Sweets was Sweet tonight! Great hands indeed. Not bad for a ragtag group.

And the sky didn't fall w/o Van Horn.:yes:


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## Knicks Junkie (Aug 21, 2003)

Othella is a crafty veteran who is playing great right now, and we will need him for the stretch run. I am glad Othella and Clarence Weatherspoon don't have to compete for minutes anymore...

Also, it looks like the old Georgetown product (Othella) is teaching the young Georgetown product (Sweetney) some of his tricks. Sweets is definitely looking more fluid on the floor.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

The truth of the matter is we are a better defensive team without houston and KVH...

In no way am i saying Better,so everybody chillllllll....

I am shocked how good Pennys D is...its really good

You can see why Isiah unloaded Keith....Its nothing against keith,its just that Marbury controls the ball and when Houston returns,he tends to hold the ball as well..We need an athletic slasher and hopefully TT is that....

The team is playing really well,especially considering No Houston,and really no TT .....

By the way,when did KT turn into Larry bird..Did you see him crossover tonight???

Go ISIAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jmonty580 (Jun 20, 2003)

Sweetney is looking alot etter out there on the floor. I have to admit when we drafted sweetney in the first round I was like NNNnnnoooooooooooooo, hes to short and just not good enough. NOw after seeing him in his limted time in the NBA I thin he can be a very affective post player and maybe he can even grab some rebounds. I really didnt like that he was only a 6'8 pf but I guess that doesnt really matter if he gets the job done, so I must say that he has impressed me and I am happy that he is in the knicks future (well atleast for now).

It was great that we could pull out that win without Houston or Tim Thomas (or KVH). I must say that we have a pretty deep bench and that good because whne our starters sit down we know that quality player can come in and keep us in the game, or even win it if they have to.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

Yeah, KT's crossover shocked me. 

17-17 from the ft line and Marbury 5 steals, WOW!


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> I really didnt like that he was only a 6'8 pf but I guess that doesnt really matter if he gets the job done,


Maybe 6'8 is plenty big enough now that all the 6'10 and up guys would rather be shooting guards.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

did anyone notice that KT and wallace are the same height including Bens hair???

what is he 6'5" 

Hes not that tall.....

Even better than KT killer crossover was his one arm takedown of Wallace..that was slick


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## the Trent Tuckers (Feb 15, 2004)

Othella played great, but at some points Williamson made him look like a punk.
And TT looked terrible. I mean in the fact that he cant hit an open jumper. Any reason Nazr didnt play?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

yeah TT looked a wee bit out of synch...did you see that 3 point shot he took that almost shattered the backboard?? ugggggllllyyyyyyy.....

i hope Demarr starts hitting from the outside..He looks like a talent


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Marbury and Penny came up huge in the clutch.... but that foul on the 3 they called on Chauncey.... oh man that was terrible. Interestingly enough, it was the exact same ref that screwed Chauncey in Minnesota a couple weeks ago. It sucks that those 3 points ended up being the difference. Put a serious damper on the game IMO.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

i remember ben wallace was listed as 6'7 a few years ago. All of a sudden he "grew" to 6'9. i dont buy it either.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

there is NO way he is 6'9"..i am not joking when i say he and thomas were the same height including fro.....hes not that all...

i was shocked to see sweets given him a tuff time hustling for loose bounds..i may have judged sweets prematurely


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## Northpole (Aug 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Marbury and Penny came up huge in the clutch.... but that foul on the 3 they called on Chauncey.... oh man that was terrible. Interestingly enough, it was the exact same ref that screwed Chauncey in Minnesota a couple weeks ago. It sucks that those 3 points ended up being the difference. Put a serious damper on the game IMO.



He hit though. THere was a replay with a view from the top. Billups hit his elbow. It wasn't like the Nash foul against the Mavs where its questionable.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

it was clearly a foul. If chauncey wasnt all over his arm, marbury would have shot the ball for than 3 feet.


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> Even better than KT killer crossover was his one arm takedown of Wallace..that was slick


Word. I love all the super dirty tricks KT pulls the entire game. He is the ultimate rule stretcher. I have no idea how the refs didn't see that one though.

Just glad he is on our team, otherwise I'd be real angry about plays like that.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> it was clearly a foul. If chauncey wasnt all over his arm, marbury would have shot the ball for than 3 feet.


That's because Chauncey blocked it.

He clearly had his hand on the ball before any other contact was made, Marbury tried shooting through the block and Chauncey pulled his arm off. If you watch the replay Chauncey never once touched any part of Stephs body, and even if he did, he got ball first so it doesn't even matter if Steph throws his arms into Chauncey's hand because it was already a block.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> That's because Chauncey blocked it.
> ...


I watched the replay and Billups never got close to the ball. He smacked Marbury on the forearm/elbow. It was an obvious call.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

Come on, a block wouldnt make the ball move FORWARD. he was all over his forearm, he was too far away from him to actually block the shot. Fans blame the refs too much. How about when you got a jump ball when okur touched the ball for a half second and penny was about to put in a uncontested two right after? Get over it.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Maybe the whole situation wouldn't be so suspicious if it wasn't the exact same ref that called Chauncey for that ridiculous offensive foul and handed the game to Minnesota two weeks ago.

It doesn't matter what you say or what you tell yourself you think you saw. Chauncey got his hand on the ball, it is clear as day right on the replay. He didn't get his whole hand, only a couple fingers, but enough to redirect the ball. There is also a replay angle that clearly shows Chauncey never touches his forearm.

I'm not saying the Pistons would have won if that hadn't happened, but it is getting extremely frustrating because this type of stuff happens ALL the time to Detroit.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> It doesn't matter what you say or what you tell yourself you think you saw. Chauncey got his hand on the ball, it is clear as day right on the replay. He didn't get his whole hand, only a couple fingers, but enough to redirect the ball. There is also a replay angle that clearly shows Chauncey never touches his forearm.


Sorry, you still have it wrong. Rewatch the play if you have it. 

I have the game taped and I took another look at the play in slo-mo. I don't know what they showed in your area, but that must have been a funky camera angle. In NY, the play is shown from 2 different angles - to the side and over the top. Both angles show contact. The side angle better shows how high Billups hit Marbury and his distance relation to the ball. The top angle better shows the extent to which Billups made contact and that Billups was actually pulling away his arm by the time Marbury was releasing the ball. 

Sequence: Marbury dribbles left to right beyond the arc. Billups, defending, drops away a few feet to cut off the angle on a drive. Marbury pulls up behind the 3 for the J. Billups does a good job of stopping and changing direction, but he's too far (about 6 feet) and jumps at about a 60 degree angle - arm extended. Marbury jumps straight up. On the jump, Marbury's cocked shooting arm (50 degrees?) smacks into Billups extended fingers/hand/forearm. Whistle at the same moment Billups tries to pull his arm back.

Billups' fingers didn't reach past Marbury's wrist. In fact, Marbury's ball release was clean. The trajectory of the ball went up instead of out because Marbury couldn't extend his forearm to shoot the ball forward - due to Billups' hand/forearm on his elbow/forearm.

The officials screwed up other calls, like awarding the ball to the Knicks after Thomas clearly fouled Ben Wallace. The Billups foul was the easiest call of the night and they got it right.


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## the Trent Tuckers (Feb 15, 2004)

i really think this Marbury trade was a great thing for us. I always loved him/and the trade, I just didnt like giving up so much. But after last night its obvious hes great. He gets to the basket, can hit jumpers, and the crowd loves him. He gets fans back into the garden, and interested in the game.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NYCbballFan</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know what they showed in your area, but that must have been a funky camera angle.


The angle I'm looking at is one from Marbury's right side where it shows Chauncey reach and get several fingers on the ball, he pulls his hand off as Steph extends and short arms it because of the contact Chauncey made with the ball. You can also see between their two arms the entire team and, while it's very close, shows he never actually touched him. They showed a lot of other angles where it looked like there was contact, but this one showed their wasn't. When the play happened I didn't even think it looked like a foul and was surprised they would blow the whistle on that. There was still a minute left in the game, so it wasn't a game decider, but it definately put the Pistons in a bad spot.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Just be happy you didnt play us at full strength:yes:


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Hey we weren't at full strength either.

Just be happy we don't have Sheed yet. :yes:


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

No Problem...

we may loan you sheed for a couple of months...until next season:yes:


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> The angle I'm looking at is one from Marbury's right side where it shows Chauncey reach and get several fingers on the ball, he pulls his hand off as Steph extends and short arms it because of the contact Chauncey made with the ball. You can also see between their two arms the entire team and, while it's very close, shows he never actually touched him. They showed a lot of other angles where it looked like there was contact, but this one showed their wasn't. When the play happened I didn't even think it looked like a foul and was surprised they would blow the whistle on that. There was still a minute left in the game, so it wasn't a game decider, but it definately put the Pistons in a bad spot.


We should have seen a similar if not the same right side feed, then. As it was happening, I wasn't sure if it was a foul or not - too quick. In slo-mo, it's obvious. If you have the game recorded, watch the play again. 

Billups didn't extend far enough to reach the ball. If he touched the ball at all, he barely brushed it as the ball passed his hand on the way up. The first place Billups touches Marbury is on the wrist and then as Marbury's jump continued, his forearm follows into Billups' forearm. You certainly couldn't see through where they made contact, at least until Billups pulled back upon hearing the whistle. On slo-mo, you can see Billups' hand flicking forward upon impact as his forearm strikes Marbury's forearm.

The top angle shows best how it was impossible for Billups to miss Marbury. Billups arm is angled slightly left to right, shooter's perspective, across Marbury's forearm which is flared right, to form an 'X' as they made contact. The top angle also shows Billups actually pulling his hand back (whistle) at the same time Marbury's hand/wrist begins the shooting motion.

Again, the ball was released clean off a full wrist/hand motion after the ball had moved up past Billups' hand. If Billups touched the ball at all, it was before Marbury began his shooting motion. On release, Billups' fingertips were at Marbury's lower wrist level, and angled off the arm (the 'X'). The shot went high because Marbury's forearm's forward motion was stopped by Billups' hand/forearm striking Marbury's wrist/forearm/elbow on release.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Sounds like the same thing I am seeing, the main difference is when I look at it, when Chauncey flicks his hand forward he hits the ball which is still in Marbury's hand, then pulls back at the same time Marbury starts to shoot. He doesn't knock the ball out of Steph's hands, but just getting a piece of it during the shooting motion causes Steph to kind of loose control of it during the shot which is why it flew straight up. 

After he hits the ball initially, from the angle I have their arms are very close, but you can see space and light between them the entire time. But whether or not their arms did touch shouldn't matter because, from what I saw, he got a couple fingers on the ball before anything else.


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