# the best college PG



## Iknowitall (Feb 22, 2003)

is not Chris Paul but Gibson of Texas. If they both were to come out of the draft next year i would choose Gibson over Paul.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

I would take Jarrett Jack, but that's only because I have not been impressed with Paul in the least this year. He hasn't shot well, he's been a poor leader, and he hasn't really gotten his teamates involved as much as a point guard should.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Chris Paul


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Raymond Felton is the best Point Guard. Best Passer, Best Floorleader, Best at setting up an offense, and the best in transition. If only his outside shot was money, which it is becoming, then he would easily be considered the best PG, behind Deron Williams.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

But RayRay doesnt have fancy scoring stats  And dont even bring up how he has been playing with severe pain in his wrist since Maui.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Felton, he is playing great, even though his hand is all wrapped up and looks like he just out of the hospital


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I agree, Felton. Paul's been the early favorite but Felton just controls tempo well.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Deron Williams - Illinois


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian34Cook</b>!
> Deron Williams - Illinois


I'll second that


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## bigpoppa*UK (Nov 26, 2004)

felton


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Instead of cereal, Felton eats a bowl of tacks for breakfast. He gets ready for games by standing in front of the fast-pitch baseball machine at the batting cages a la Happy Gilmore.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian34Cook</b>!
> Deron Williams - Illinois


This is a correct. Your first PG chosen in the 2005 NBA draft.


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## duckman1734 (Jun 29, 2003)

When Chris Paul turns it around he will once again be the best Pg in the country and a top 5 pick. No other PG has the skills and athleticism he has.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>duckman1734</b>!
> When Chris Paul turns it around he will once again be the best Pg in the country and a top 5 pick. No other PG has the skills and athleticism he has.


Look at the size man. He's 5'11. Only PG's drafted high that are that short, have to be really good passers (Telfair and TJ Ford come to mind). He's not an amazing passer to say the least.


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## mr hoopster (Dec 24, 2004)

I like Chris Paul, he is gonna be a special player in the NBA.

Ray Felton is also one of my favorites.


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## Houshmandzadeh (Dec 16, 2004)

Aaron Myles...

Well, maybe not the best pro prospect, but I thought I'd throw a different name out there.


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Houshmandzadeh</b>!
> Aaron Myles...
> 
> Well, maybe not the best pro prospect, but I thought I'd throw a different name out there.


That's Aaron Miles, just FYI.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

1. Deron Williams (lotto)
2. Ray Felton
3a. John Gilchrist
3b. Jarett Jack
4. Chris Paul


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 1. Deron Williams (lotto)
> 2. Ray Felton
> 3a. John Gilchrist
> ...


You know, there is a good chance all 5 guys could be lottery picks this year. I mean there are a lot of teams that are going to be in the lottery that need PG's and these 5 are really good.


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## Kapono2Okafor (Oct 20, 2004)

1-Paul
2-Felton
3-Williams


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## Iknowitall (Feb 22, 2003)

Chris Paul has been great the last few weeks. Out of all the PG i think he has the best outside shot, the only problem is his size.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I think the difference between Felton/Deron/Paul/Gilchrist/Jack is so small it's really hard to rank them. I think alot of where they go depends on the style a team wants/needs.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

no no no. you are all wrong.
It is a clear win here. SEAN DOCKERY!


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

This year it is Chris Paul,Jarret Jack, or Raymond Felton. But next year it'll be Aaron Brooks.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I liked whoever picked Williams...

1. D. Williams
2. D. Ewing -  how you like that ACC lovers
3. J. Jack

I'm officially off the C. Paul bandwagon. He's good, but not #1. Felton's not a bad shooter, but needs to improve. I believe he's said he's not leaving Chapel Hill either, so you'll have to wait another year (I know, I know - you'll believe it when you see it).


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> You know, there is a good chance all 5 guys could be lottery picks this year. I mean there are a lot of teams that are going to be in the lottery that need PG's and these 5 are really good.


It isn't just teams in the lottery that need PG's most of the teams in the NBA could use a real PG.

And Saras, I know he isn't in college anymore, is better than all of them, but teams would rather draft and try to develop a point guard than sign a very good one who wasn't drafted.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChitwoodStyle</b>!
> 
> 
> It isn't just teams in the lottery that need PG's most of the teams in the NBA could use a real PG.
> ...


Well you're talking about Jaskevicius right? He wasn't that good coming out of Maryland. He got much better, but it's too late now anyway, because didn't he sign a multi-year deal with Maccabi?

He's going to soon be 29 years old. I'd hope he would be better than soon to be 21 year olds.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

1. Paul
2. Gilchrist(man this guy gets no love on these boards)
3. Williams
4. Felton
5. Jack


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

1. Williams
2. Felton
3. Gilchrest
4. Jack
5. Dee Brown
6. Chris Paul

Dee Brown gettin no love... He is the motor for the number 1 team in the nation, not the best pro prospect... but you know...


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## Iknowitall (Feb 22, 2003)

why do you all like Williams so much, the guy is so slow and he isn't a great shooter either.


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## Dakota (Aug 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> Raymond Felton is the best Point Guard. Best Passer, Best Floorleader, Best at setting up an offense, and the best in transition. If only his outside shot was money, which it is becoming, then he would easily be considered the best PG, behind Deron Williams.


Even though I'm a huggggge Duke fan, I will agree with this statement. Felton is money. 

Gilchrest is a beast though too. The ACC has some killer pg's.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Iknowitall</b>!
> why do you all like Williams so much, the guy is so slow and he isn't a great shooter either.


That's the knock on Deron.. But he's an awesome passer and makes the passes that you go  and :drool: over!


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

J. Jack is going to be a tremendous NBA PG, and he probably is the one that is physically prepared the most (Gilchrist as well). Paul and Felton will both have questions about their durability and size following them, that's the one skill they can't improve, and I'm just not sold that D. Williams is athletic enough.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Put me down for John Gilchrist.

He is a stud. He can do it all, is physically dominating, and carried his team on his shoulders last year, even when injured.

May not be drafted highest, may not have as cool a name as Jarrett Jack, but is simply the best.

IMHO...


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

When Jarrett Jack is having a terrible shooting night do the TV announcers say, "Well, Jarrett Jack's off tonight,"?


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I have doubts about Gilchrists attitude.


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

So do many. It's pretty much the same problem as with McCants and Sean Banks. Their game is alright, but the mental/character aspect is a big knock against them for different reasons. I wouldn't draft Gilchrist over Felton, Jack or Paul for that reason.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Gilchrest was absolutely awful when he came into the Kohl Center, and that's the only time I've ever seen him in person. He just doesn't seem like much of a leader, more of a selfish player who's going to A) shoot all the shots and make them all B) shoot all the shots and miss them all C) start off missing all the shots and then moping at the end of the bench the rest of the way. Also I have doubts about his one on one defense.

But then again because of that Maryland - Wisconsin game I'll swear on my life that Ibekwe is the best player on that team, so I don't know if I'm completely accurate.

Double J's my guy. I'll take him over anyone else out there.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ChrisCrossover</b>!
> So do many. It's pretty much the same problem as with McCants and Sean Banks. Their game is alright, but the mental/character aspect is a big knock against them for different reasons. I wouldn't draft Gilchrist over Felton, Jack or Paul for that reason.


I'm sorry but McCants has been as close to an angel as you can be since the season started. He has sacrificed his individual stats for the team and as a result UNC is much improved. He was started on the bench for one game because he was late after getting stuck in traffic, he handled it very maturely, cheered on the team from the bench, came in and played hard. He was put on the bench in the MD game after making a dumb play, didnt pout, came back in and kept up the effort. I can understand thinking this because of actions last year (esp Kentucky last year), but this year he has had a complete attitude change and it hurts me to still see people regarding him as a "McCancer", when he has been spectacular this year. I do understand its hard to shake a reputation that he had, especially when the media decides to latch on to him like they did. It's amazing what Roy has done with this kid.


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

I think this is a good comment that puts it into perspective. What I was driving at was his reputation as an immature troublemaker, and as you said, it is very hard to get rid of such a label. I didn't mean to imply that McCants was a helpless case, and it is very nice to get another opinion from someone who lives in North Carolina.

Following your line of arguments, there is some positive development in his character, but I hope we agree that NBA scouts will look at McCants' whole college career and see some worrisome incidents in the past. Such things cannot be corrected completely, even if he goes on to lead the Tar Heels to the championship. Some players like Jalen Rose are still being judged by their past, and even in Jim Jackson's case, the infamous lockout incident he has had as a rookie in Dallas over ten years ago has been brought back to the surface. 

Thus, even if McCants concludes his college career on a positive note, the negative aspects of his personality will still be clinging to him in one way or the other, even if they turn out to be a thing of the past.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ChrisCrossover</b>!
> So do many. It's pretty much the same problem as with McCants and Sean Banks. Their game is alright, but the mental/character aspect is a big knock against them for different reasons. I wouldn't draft Gilchrist over Felton, Jack or Paul for that reason.


It is a concern. However, I think it is passion that he has yet to control.

JJ and Paul are good picks. Paul is a great pure point, a deadly shooter, a ballhawk and is fearless to the rack. The only downside is his size. JJ has too much flash at times, and may force things but I'm sure he can reign that it. Heck, J-Will did. 

Felton is too soft, too passive, for my liking. He does not get to the stripe. He does not seem to want to shoot. It is hard to criticize a guy on an undefeated team, and he is a remarkable shooter when he finally decides to put one up. Like Nash, he will pass, pass, pass for half a game without taking a shot, and then, when you least expect it, knock down a two treys in two possessions. But he also forces things, and tries to make the gorgeous but impossible pass. Last year, when NC was human, he disappeared in key games, and I though Gilchrist outplayed him head to head both times.

edit- It sounds like I don't like him. Not true. I just don't like him as much as the other three.


Deron Williams is Matean Cleaves. :sour:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> Gilchrest was absolutely awful when he came into the Kohl Center, and that's the only time I've ever seen him in person. He just doesn't seem like much of a leader, more of a selfish player who's going to A) shoot all the shots and make them all B) shoot all the shots and miss them all C) start off missing all the shots and then moping at the end of the bench the rest of the way. Also I have doubts about his one on one defense.
> 
> But then again because of that Maryland - Wisconsin game I'll swear on my life that Ibekwe is the best player on that team, so I don't know if I'm completely accurate.
> ...


Two points. Ibekwe is a great pro prospect in the Hakim Warrick mold quite frankly and Gilchrist isn't selfish, he's playing with guys who are underachieving. Nik Caner-Medley stinks. 

Gilchrist will be terrific in the NBA. The Deron Williams stuff is just mindboggling, Mateen Cleaves? Are you guys serious? You need to watch the guy pass and run the team. He's run the USA team since he was a HS senior, he was made to be a PG.


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## Don Corleone (Sep 24, 2004)

I really like Jarret Jack's pro potential. Even over the likes of Williams, Felton, & Paul.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> Gilchrist will be terrific in the NBA. The Deron Williams stuff is just mindboggling, Mateen Cleaves? Are you guys serious? You need to watch the guy pass and run the team. He's run the USA team since he was a HS senior, he was made to be a PG.


Mateen Cleaves was better than Deron Williams in college, and was probably more athletic.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> Mateen Cleaves was better than Deron Williams in college, and was probably more athletic.


Better at what? He had one good year leading Michigan State, but he was the quintessional definition of a college player.

Deron is a pro style PG. The reason Illinois looks so good on offense, is because of Deron. Deron is a 6'3-6'4 PG, who's only real weaknesses are in conditioning, which will take care of themselves in the pros. 

Cleaves played on defensive teams at Michigan State that beat you up and he made timely baskets, but he was never an NBA prospect that would make any impact.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> Mateen Cleaves was better than Deron Williams in college, and was probably more athletic.


College and the pros are two completely different games. Deron's gonna be a stud pro. Mateen fetches water and towels.


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> Felton is too soft, too passive, for my liking. He does not get to the stripe. He does not seem to want to shoot. It is hard to criticize a guy on an undefeated team, and he is a remarkable shooter when he finally decides to put one up. Like Nash, he will pass, pass, pass for half a game without taking a shot, and then, when you least expect it, knock down a two treys in two possessions. But he also forces things, and tries to make the gorgeous but impossible pass.


Good evaluation. The question, though, is: how much of that can be credited to his role with UNC? And: can he change when it comes to playing in an "open" system? I think he has all the tools to thrive in the NBA, even as a scorer. He's lightning-quick, very athletic, his ballhandling and body will allow him to get to the hoop, and his shot is coming along fine enough to keep defenders honest. I really don't see him becoming another "pass-only" guy like Brevin Knight. His potential is way beyond that of a one-dimensional playmaker, and he has yet to peak in his development. I'm very optimistic when it comes to Ray Felton's NBA career.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Good point CCO. The UNC "system" has done this before...


And you guys with your revisionist history just slay me.

Mateen Cleaves was the NCAA Tournie most outstanding player, led Michigan State to a National championship, was a 2-time Big-Ten Player of the Year, 3-time all-American, and is the all-time Big-Ten assists leader.

This "never an NBA prospect" was picked 14th overall.

And I agree with blabla97, Cleaves probably has the edge on Williams in athleticism. He certainly had the same "leadership-floor general-intangibles" to him.

I don't think Williams is the best PG prospect in the draft, or best PG in the Big-10, or even the best PG ON HIS TEAM! 

...Luther Head.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> 
> I don't think Williams is the best PG prospect in the draft, or best PG in the Big-10, or even the best PG ON HIS TEAM!
> 
> ...Luther Head.


Haha. Luther Head isn't even a natural PG as of right now. Williams makes that team's engine run. All you had to do was watch Illinois without him a year ago with the wrist injury.

It will be funny to watch you guys get converted when he gets to the NBA.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Better at what? He had one good year leading Michigan State, but he was the quintessional definition of a college player.


So if he was "good" for one year, what was he the other time he won conference player of the year? 



> Deron is a pro style PG. The reason Illinois looks so good on offense, is because of Deron. Deron is a 6'3-6'4 PG, who's only real weaknesses are in conditioning, which will take care of themselves in the pros.


You don't think quickness and athleticism are a weakness for him? What makes him more athletic than Mateen Cleaves? What allows Williams to succeed, where Cleaves failed? 

And 6'4? Come on. That means I can call Dee Brown 6'1, Jarrett Jack 6'4, and Pierre Pierce 6'5...



> Cleaves played on defensive teams at Michigan State that beat you up and he made timely baskets, but he was never an NBA prospect that would make any impact.


He was the 14th pick in the draft, and the all-time assist leader in the Big Ten. It's easy to say something about a player five years into their career, but a lot more difficult at the time they came out. 

What exactly makes Williams better than Cleaves? I think it's a valid comparison, but I also liked Cleaves at #14...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> So if he was "good" for one year, what was he the other time he won conference player of the year?


The Big 10 was down those years Michigan State was winning the conference. Just think back for a second of who the best NBA player out of that time period is.

Michael Redd? Morris Peterson? 




> You don't think quickness and athleticism are a weakness for him? What makes him more athletic than Mateen Cleaves? What allows Williams to succeed, where Cleaves failed?


Court vision. Williams is not in the best shape, but when he gets in shape (which he should do during pre-draft phase), there is no doubt that his ability to run a team makes him invaluable. He can also make perimeter shots. Cleaves couldn't shoot for anything, not to mention those ankle injuries basically robbed him of any ability to get by guys. I mean it's not like Cleaves was Stephon Marbury out there, he was like Khalid El-Amin. Guys who do well in college, but the pros no chance. 



> And 6'4? Come on. That means I can call Dee Brown 6'1, Jarrett Jack 6'4, and Pierre Pierce 6'5...


Deron Williams is closer to 6'4 than he is 6'2. So if you want to leave him at 6'3, semantics. I have no problem with that.



> He was the 14th pick in the draft, and the all-time assist leader in the Big Ten. It's easy to say something about a player five years into their career, but a lot more difficult at the time they came out.
> 
> What exactly makes Williams better than Cleaves? I think it's a valid comparison, but I also liked Cleaves at #14...


Cleaves = great college player.
Williams = career better in the pros. Deron is a better passer and more offensive minded. Runs the fastbreak better, yet has to share the ball with two other very good guards in terms of scoring and assists. If he was the only PG, he'd be over 10 apg. Like I keep referencing, his experience on the USA select teams, let NBA scouts know that he can run an NBA team. He has court vision, savvy and can d up bigger guards. The only thing stopping him from being the top PG pick is his conditioning. Once he gets with Tim Grover before the draft, that will be remedied.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I've actually stood next to Deron Williams right before he took the court a few years ago (after his JR year in HS) for an AAU tourney in Lawrence, KS. I'm 6'2" in shoes, and he was probably an inch taller than me.

What makes him more athletic than Mateen Cleaves? Well, did Mateen Cleaves ever throw down tomohawk dunks on the break? Deron might not be the quickest player, but he's got a superb blend of bulk, coordination and finesse that very, very few players possess. The physical comparison that comes to mind -- and HKF agrees, I believe -- is Jason Kidd. Outside of the physical comparison, however, Deron shares a few of Kidd's other attributes -- court vision, composure, ability to body bigger guards, and the ability to lead a break like a speed addict with his hair on fire.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> I've actually stood next to Deron Williams right before he took the court a few years ago (after his JR year in HS) for an AAU tourney in Lawrence, KS. I'm 6'2" in shoes, and he was probably an inch taller than me.
> 
> What makes him more athletic than Mateen Cleaves? Well, did Mateen Cleaves ever throw down tomohawk dunks on the break? Deron might not be the quickest player, but he's got a superb blend of bulk, coordination and finesse that very, very few players possess. The physical comparison that comes to mind -- and HKF agrees, I believe -- is Jason Kidd. Outside of the physical comparison, however, Deron shares a few of Kidd's other attributes -- court vision, composure, ability to body bigger guards, and the ability to lead a break like a speed addict with his hair on fire.


:clap: Thank you. Been saying it since the man stepped into college and everyone was hyping Dee Brown. Deron is going to be a terrific player.


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## Iknowitall (Feb 22, 2003)

Williams will be a bust to me whoever draft him. The guy can't shoot and is slower then Ander Miller(at least Miller can post up a guy and play D). Williams to slow to guard anyone in the NBA. His passing skill are avg nothing great about his court vision at all.


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

I'm somewhere between these two opinions. In my opinion, with his strength, passing ability and basketball IQ, Williams should be a nice playmaker at the professional level. I don't expect him to fail. It may possibly take him a while to become a starter on an NBA team, but I don't see him becoming a bust. 

On the other hand, he is not Jason Kidd #2, not by a long shot. Come on. Kidd is arguably the best offensive-defensive combination of any guard to this day; he can lock down the opposing PG and still direct the offense of his own team at the other end of the court. Plus, he is faster than many six feet players and also possesses superb quickness and lateral speed.

If Deron Williams can become another Andre Miller, he and his fans should be happy.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

You guys are whacked.

Jason Kidd, IIRC, set teh allime NCAA recored for steals as a freshman, then lead the nation in assists as a soph will notching over 200 steals and nearly 7 rebounds a game.

The comp is PREPOSTEROUS.

Matean Cleaves is a very good comparable. Cleaves was overall and average shooter. Same with Williams.

You keep saying Williams was a better passer, and ran the fast break better, but you really offer no evidence. You SAY he is an NBA player, and Cleaves was a college player, but offer no evidence.

Williams looks an awful lot like a good college player who does not quite have the NBA athleticism required to play point.


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## Iknowitall (Feb 22, 2003)

I won't even compare Williams to Matean Cleaves. I think both of them ran their team great but they both couldn't shoot the ball at all, also Cleaves is much quicker then Williams and look at where he is. Williams if he makes it to the NBA he will be a number 10 guy off the bench.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I think Raymond Felton is the best college player, and will turn out to be the best player in the NBA.

Unbelieveable court vision and passing skills with lockdown defense ability. He has also developed his shot a lot and has been hitting those long range jumpers lately. The only knack on him is his height if he keeps working this hard.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Iknowitall</b>!
> Williams will be a bust to me whoever draft him. The guy can't shoot and is slower then Ander Miller(at least Miller can post up a guy and play D).


See: Jamaal Tinsley



> Williams to slow to guard anyone in the NBA. His passing skill are avg nothing great about his court vision at all.


See: Kirk Hinrich


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

One difference, VV. Tinsley and Hinrich have lightning quick first steps. Deron Williams does not. Guys like Hinrich and Nash prove that you don't need an abundance of athleticism to be an NBA PG, but you do need a first step. Willliams doesn't have a first step.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Here is a another question for the Williams-backing contingent:

You all know that Jordan Farmar is leading UCLA back to the top of the PAC-10. He is a very similar prospect to Williams, in that he has great size for a PG, is crafty on the drive, and will destroy you on the fast break. I would go so far as to say that there is nothing Williams does as a junior that Farmar doesn't do at least as well as a freshman. Farmar has that extra burst of athleticism and a better first step. 

Does this make Farmar a 2005 lotto pick?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> The Big 10 was down those years Michigan State was winning the conference. Just think back for a second of who the best NBA player out of that time period is.


Come on, HKF. You know for a fact that outside of the Illini, the Big Ten is a SHELL of the conference it was throughout the 90's. 

In addition to the players you mention, completely off the top of my head, there was Brian Cardinal, Brad Miller, Jamal Crawford, Bobby Jackson, and Mo Taylor. 

I'm not saying you don't have an agrument about Williams, but things like forgetting that Cleaves was B10 player of the year twice, claiming the B10 was a weak conference, comparing Cleaves to Khalid El-Amin and telling me that Williams has better court vision than the Big 10's all-time assist leader clearly show that you have lost all objectivity on this one.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> I think Raymond Felton is the best college player, and will turn out to be the best player in the NBA.


So, can all of this talk end now? I've heard North Carolina people rediculously hype Felton for almost 3 years now and he was just DOMINATED today by Chris Paul.


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## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

I wasn't a big fans pf Chris Paul but now i am. I know he is small but what make him different from other small PG is that he a great outside shooter, that what make me think he going to be a solid NBA player.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

I don't think Felton has fire in the belly. When the big match-up is on, he consistently, well, defers. Or worse.

Still, I think the point made about the structure UNC system must be taken into account.

The guy has skills. I would love to see him in workouts for NBA scouts, see what he can bring in that situation. That, for me, would answer some questions about competitive fire, courage, and clutch capability.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Felton generally does fine in bigger games. Obviously last Saturday that wasn't the case, but he had good games against MD and GT, as well as last year in all the games against WF/GT/NCS (duhon/duke gave him problems though, Gilchrist gave him a hard time in 1 of the MD games). So I dont think it's fair to imply Felton always chokes in big games because of last Saturday. He has had his clutch games and his forgettable games. I don't think I would label him as either at this point.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

double post


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

As usual, I agree with you two guys. Felton has all the tools needed to be successful on the highest level: speed, strength, athletic ability, great playmaking skills. Plus, he's a fastbreak hero, which suits the trend set by teams like the Mavs or Suns. Just imagine him as Nash's backup - scary thought, isn't it? 

So all the skills are there, it's just a matter of putting them together. Everybody has a role at UNC, and especially Felton has many scorers to feed. Let's wait and see how he fares on the pro level. Personally, I think he'll do just fine.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I guess we'll see once these guys get on the pro level.

The consensus seems to be that Jarrett Jack is a pro guard (I agree), but Felton, Gilchrist, Williams and Paul aren't that good. 

I happen to think all 5 will be good on the pro level. Obviously not all-star for all of them, but solid NBA PG's in the Hinrich, Tinsley, Billups, Ridnour mold, which is always nice to have.


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

Once again, I wouldn't rule out All-Star careers. These five guys are great basketball players with good potential. I wouldn't be surprised if at least two of them eventually made the ASG.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I think we will see Jack and Paul coming out of this class being the best NBA PG's. I like Felton a lot but I dont see him having to much success in the NBA. Id have to see Gilchrist again to make a judgement.

Am I the only one that doesnt see Chris Paul coming out this year? Of course if Wake goes deep it may change. But I dont see Wake going deep really.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

I think Paul is guaranteed a top 5 pick if he comes out.

Pretty hard to turn that down...


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

About Chris Paul in HS (from the ESPN site)
"Averaged 30.8 points, 8.0 assists, 6.0 steals and 5.0 rebounds per contest ... Scored 61 points in one game last season days after his grandfather was tragically murdered at the age of 61 ... When he reached the 61-point mark, he intentionally missed a free throw, then took himself out of the game even though the state high school scoring record was well within reach ..."

Man, I'll be gramps was probably watching and thinking, damn, my grandson is dumb.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mysterio</b>!
> About Chris Paul in HS (from the ESPN site)
> "Averaged 30.8 points, 8.0 assists, 6.0 steals and 5.0 rebounds per contest ... Scored 61 points in one game last season days after his grandfather was tragically murdered at the age of 61 ... When he reached the 61-point mark, he intentionally missed a free throw, then took himself out of the game even though the state high school scoring record was well within reach ..."
> 
> Man, I'll be gramps was probably watching and thinking, damn, my grandson is dumb.


Are you serious? :whofarted Kid was playing with a heavy heart man.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you serious? :whofarted Kid was playing with a heavy heart man.


Yeah, I'm serious. If my gandkid was on the verge of breaking a state record, I'd want him to do it instead of stop at my unlucky death year. Purposely miss a free throw, c'mon! If anything 61 should be an anti-sentimental number.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

He was showing respect...

That story lead me to believe that this kid has proper perspective to be something special. Without overhyping it to much I still think that shows that he has his head on straight and wont be all big headed.

I believe Chris Paul will make a top 10 PG in the pros within his first 3 years.


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## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

what do you all think about Aaron Brooks, to small to play in the NBA?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Aaron Brooks is a heck of a player...He is extremely quick and almost reminds me of T.J. Ford except with a better jump shot....
He doesnt play as well on the road against tough opponents, but being only a sophmore and barely playing last year due to injury is likely only going to improve...

right now he has better statistics than any other PG in the pac-10

It will be interesting to see how matches up with Mustafa Shakur tonight.....


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

While Paul is an excellent scorer, he's inconsistent, and he just isn't the player Gilchrist or Felton are. With that said he'll still be the first pg taken in the draft. Felton controls the tempo and is an outstanding passer, but he reminds me too much of Brevin Knight, both the good and bad (although he'll never be the defender Knight is). Gilchrist does everything well and is a superb rebounder for a pg; he has flashes when he reminds me of Starbury, but he too often settles for a ill-advised shot (many of which he still makes, but in the NBA you can't get away with that). It would be interesting to see what Gilchrist could do with UNC's supporting cast, or even Wake's (other than Gilchrist and Caner-Medley there really isn't a consistent scorer on Maryland, and Gilchrist suffers for this lack).

Outside of those three, Deron Williams is the guy every NBA team wants, but no team is really willing to spend a lotto pick on him. He reminds me of a much better shooting version of Eric Snow (which is a fairly good thing IMO). Then a clear cut below there's Jarrett Jack. Jack's held back by three things, he's very turnover prone, he's not a very good passer, and his attitude. He's still a good player and shows flashes of a Gary Payton-like floor general, but he'll never be confused for GP; he's more of a Frank Williams-like guy (nice potential, but not right in the head). 

Then there's a few interesting tweeners in the next group. Starting with Nate Robinson. Robinson has been shut down a bit this year, but he's still there and his 3-point stroke has improved (there's a lot more arch under in now). He's got a real shot at the bottom of the first. John Lucas is another guy that could sneak into the bottom of the first. He's a good shooter, and a decent passer, but often tries to do way too much (still a good shooting pg who can play D is of good value in the eyes' of good teams; take Beno Udrih for example). Certainly Luther Head and Dee Brown make for interesting bottom of the first, or top of the second guys. Head is a lot like Lionel Chalmers IMO (but like 6 inches taller), and Chalmers has seen some success in his limited PT this year. Then there's the down and out Chris Thomas. Once thought of as a potential star in the style of Mike Bibby, Thomas' lackluster junior and senior (so far) years have killed his shot at the first, but still he'll go in the second somewhere. Wil Bynum also deserves some mention, but his inability to be the primary ball-handler is a hugh weakness (it's why he left Arizona, they needed a backup pg, and he was more of a tweener so they pursued Rodgers).


The wildcards: These are the pg's that could really mess around with everything if they declare. Jordan Farmar (all around talent), Daniel Gibson (scorer supreme), Mustafa Shakur (solid controlling the ball), Aaron Brooks (very much like Aaron Miles), Guillermo Diaz (the best jumping pg since Stevie Franchise), and Rajon Rondo (a great passer). While I don't anticipate any of these guy declaring, Gibson might (although he'd still be the 4th ranked pg at best, among the NCAA players), and although it would be a mistake, he'd be a solid mid-first pick. Farmar and Gibson could be lotto picks next year, but they've both shown some signs of being freshman (turnover problems, and mid-season fatigue).

Assuming everyone declares here's the order I think they'll be picked in:
Paul, Gilchrist, Felton, Farmar, Gibson, Deron Williams, Nate Robinson, Rajon Rondo, Jarrett Jack, John Lucas, Mustafa Shakur, Guillermo Diaz (damn can this guy jump!!), Luther Head, Aaron Brooks, Dee Brown, Wil Bynum, Aaron Miles, Chris Thomas, Travis Deiner. That's a lot of quality at pg, but only the top 6 or so are top 15 material.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

First off all, thanks for posting your thoughts. This board needs more draft analysis like this. I will respond to what has been said. 




> While Paul is an excellent scorer, he's inconsistent, and he just isn't the player Gilchrist or Felton are. With that said he'll still be the first pg taken in the draft.


I think Paul is by far the best of the big four ACC PG's, in college and pro. With what he's been doing since the ACC started, I don't see how anybody could think differently. I don't think he's worthy of the #1 pick in the draft, and he's probably borderline top 5 in even a mediocre draft. However, 2005 looks pretty pathetic at the moment. 



> Felton controls the tempo and is an outstanding passer, but he reminds me too much of Brevin Knight, both the good and bad (although he'll never be the defender Knight is).


RayRay is very, very good at controlling the tempo. Nobody at the college level pushes the ball like he does (well, Dee Brown comes close). However, he is turnover prone, and for some reason has a tendency to fumble the ball when he's dribbling. He has great defensive hands, but not the best offensive hands. I'd love to see him get to the basket a bit more, as it seems like when he does drive, he's pretty much unstoppable. I like him as a solid mid-first rounder. He probably doesn't have the lateral quickness of Knight but he has better size, and is much more explosive. 



> Gilchrist does everything well and is a superb rebounder for a pg; he has flashes when he reminds me of Starbury, but he too often settles for a ill-advised shot (many of which he still makes, but in the NBA you can't get away with that). It would be interesting to see what Gilchrist could do with UNC's supporting cast, or even Wake's (other than Gilchrist and Caner-Medley there really isn't a consistent scorer on Maryland, and Gilchrist suffers for this lack).


Yeah, I am very up-and-down on Gilchrist as well. There are some games where he looks like a top 5 pick, and other times when he looks fairly awful. Who knows where he's going to end up...



> Outside of those three, Deron Williams is the guy every NBA team wants, but no team is really willing to spend a lotto pick on him. He reminds me of a much better shooting version of Eric Snow (which is a fairly good thing IMO). Then a clear cut below there's Jarrett Jack. Jack's held back by three things, he's very turnover prone, he's not a very good passer, and his attitude. He's still a good player and shows flashes of a Gary Payton-like floor general, but he'll never be confused for GP; he's more of a Frank Williams-like guy (nice potential, but not right in the head).


I can't agree with this assessment. I agree that Williams is a bit behind the top group, but he's nothing like Eric Snow. Snow is a defensive-minded, cautious PG. He's not going to make plays, but he's not going to turn it over. That's why he was perfect for a defense-oriented, slow-it-down team like Philly. If there is one thing you can label Deron Williams as, it's playmaker. He's electric on the fast break, and despite the lack of athleticism, very dangerous off the dribble at the college level. Williams is always making plays passing the ball that 90% of PG's could never see, let alone convert. The real question is whether Williams is athletic enough to make it in the league. I have my doubts about that. He compares more to a slower Jason Kidd or an Andre Miller, than to Eric Snow. Jordan Farmar and Deron Williams are very similar players as well...




> Starting with Nate Robinson. Robinson has been shut down a bit this year, but he's still there and his 3-point stroke has improved (there's a lot more arch under in now). He's got a real shot at the bottom of the first.


Robinson is probably an early 2nd rounder, but I do like him. I wouldn't say he has been "shut down", either. He just happens to have five or six guards on his team that are just as capable of scoring. When teams pay attention to him, he just gets his teammates the ball. The thing about Robinson is that even though he's 5'7, he plays above the rim. There aren't many 6'2 PG's you can say that about. 



> John Lucas is another guy that could sneak into the bottom of the first. He's a good shooter, and a decent passer, but often tries to do way too much


I don't know about Lucas. I would like to see a bit more quickness out of a 5'11 guy. He is a very good shooter and will run a team efficiently, but sub-6'0 PG's have to be really, really special. I guess I could see him having a Travis Best-like career. A solid 2nd round pickup in my book....



> Certainly Luther Head and Dee Brown make for interesting bottom of the first, or top of the second guys. Head is a lot like Lionel Chalmers IMO (but like 6 inches taller), and Chalmers has seen some success in his limited PT this year.


I agree on both. Brown looks like he'll be somewhere in between a Bobby Jackson or Earl Boykins type, in that he can come in off the bench and run tired opponents into the ground. The guy has a motor that never wears out. 

As for Head, I can see him being a decent combo guard. It's hard to say how many more Gil Arenas and Dwyane Wades we are going to see, but Head could be one. He's gone NBA hops, an NBA stroke, and shows signs of being able to handle the ball well enough. 

One question, though: If Luther Head is 6'3, Lionel Chalmers is 5'9? 



> Then there's the down and out Chris Thomas. Once thought of as a potential star in the style of Mike Bibby, Thomas' lackluster junior and senior (so far) years have killed his shot at the first, but still he'll go in the second somewhere.


Agreed. He looked awful today. Notre Dame has talent, but things aren't clicking. The big guys never get the ball. This rests on the PG's shoulders. 



> Wil Bynum also deserves some mention, but his inability to be the primary ball-handler is a hugh weakness (it's why he left Arizona, they needed a backup pg, and he was more of a tweener so they pursued Rodgers).


I like Bynum. He's pretty inconsistent, but man...a few games this year, he's made Nate Robinson look pretty mediocre. He should probably be playing football, but I dont' see why he can't be a holy terror on the defensive end in the NBA. 

As for Rodgers, I like his chances in the NBA. He can run the point, and has great size. I wish he wasn't in Arizona's loaded and mostly out-of-sync backcourt. 



> Jordan Farmar (all around talent),


You can't help but get excited about Farmar's potential when watching him play. One of those guys that makes everyone aroudn him better...



> Daniel Gibson (scorer supreme)


I like Farmar better amongst the freshman PG's. Gibson really doesn't do anything at a standout level. He reminds me a lot of Mo Williams, which makes him a mid to late first rounder in two years or so. He seems like the kind of guy that isn't going to get a whole lot better...



> Mustafa Shakur (solid controlling the ball)


Shakur has looked very lousy at times this year, and it's actually his ability to run a team that is kind of shaky. However, it can't be easy to try and get a team full of guys that need the ball in their hands to play well together. He's 6'3, has standout athleticism, and can really get into the lane. A prototype NBA PG, once he gets some of his floor general issues worked out. 



> Aaron Brooks (very much like Aaron Miles


I would lump Brooks, Miles, Dan Ewing, and John Lucas all into the same group. Great college players who project as backup-types in the NBA. Tough, physical, great shooters, but guys who lack in size, playmaking ability, or athleticism. You dont' need to be a standout in all 3 to make it in the league, but you better have at least one. 



> Guillermo Diaz (the best jumping


Diaz is the most athletic "lead guard" type in college basketball right now, outside of Nate Robinson. He's got good PG size, but doesn't have what it takes to be a floor general yet. If he can get to where he's comfortable running a team, Diaz is at least a mid first rounder someday. 



> Rajon Rondo


I haven't been impressed with Rondo this season. He doesn't stick out as a playmaker, and doesn't seem to use the athleticism I saw in him last spring. I would give him another year or so before calling him a legit NBA prospect...

A few others that need to be mentioned in an overview of PG prospects currently in college, in order of where I see them going at the moment...

Mardy Collins, Temple - Late first round this year, mid first round next
Sammy Mejia, DePaul - Really starting to emerge. At 6'6, a great playmaker, creates his own shot, and is money from deep. Not much to criticize here. - First rounder at some point. 
Curtis Stinson, Iowa State - Great all-around scorer, great size - Late first rounder in one of the next two drafts. 
Pierre Pierce, Iowa - Still an awful decision maker, but the light is coming on. Has bundles of physical tools, and an improving jump shot. - Potential mid-late first rounder if he can continue to improve his smarts on the floor. 
Chris Rodgers, Arizona (mentioned above) - I think he's a potential first rounder, with the size, ability to score, and run a team. 
Dan Ewing, Duke (I mentioned him above) - 2nd rounder with a future in the NBA. 
Filiberto Rivera, UTEP - Completely under the radar, but a very, very good lead guard. The kind of playmaker that wins wherever he goes. Has the size, athleticism, and scoring tools to make it in the league. 
Carl Krauser, Pitt - Probable 2nd rounder
Justin Gray, Wake Forest - Probably a 2nd rounder
Allen Ray, Villanova - Not an impressive physical package, but quite a scorer
Mitchell Baldwin, Charlotte - Ridiculously quick, decent size. Under the radar, but a very good floor general. Charlotte looked absolutely lost without him against Cincy this past week.
Anthony Roberson, Florida - Could get himself drafted, though I wonder...
CJ Watson, Tennessee - Underrated...
Juan Barea, Northeastern

Freshmen to keep an eye on: 
Justin Cerasoli, Seton Hall - Nice playmaking ability and great size. Gets into the lane. - Too early to tell how he pans out, but definitely a guy to keep an eye on. 
Darius Washington, Memphis- Not too sure where he fits in at the NBA level yet. Solid athelete, electric scorer, and not as bad of a floor general as the ast/to ratio would indicate. 
Gabe Pruitt, USC - Originally thought of as a two, but began playing point his senior year in HS. His stock skyrocketed, and is looking like a solid prospect thus far. 6'3, and very athletic. I want to watch him play a few more times before passing judgement. 
Ronnie Steele, Alabama - Not sure yet how he projects on the NBA level, but he's a darn good college PG.
Pierre-Marie Altidor-Cespedes - Not much for numbers as of yet, but he is an NBA-level athlete who has made a ton of highlight reel passes already. He's got great PG size. We'll have to wait until some of the veteran talent at Gonzaga moves on, but I have a good feel about his potential.

Anyways, it would be great to hear what you think of another position for NBA prospects...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

No Jeff Horner blabla?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Sorry, HKF. 

He's just not athletic enough. He is completely ineffective as a penetrator on the college level, and even struggles handling against teams like the Illini. He will absolutely get eaten up in the nba. He's a great shooter and a heady passer, but he's not NBA material, at least not in my book. Check out his last few games. His stats are crashing back to earth, and his early success was due to a hot streak from 3, where teams weren't really prepared for it. 

Maybe he could catch on as a 12th man, 3-point specialist type, but I don't even know about that...


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

@ Goods, blabla

A very good evaluation by both of you. Let me give you credit for that. You guys clearly have a better insight on college hoops, but I'm still kind of surprised that you mention Travis Diener as an "also ran". He sure isn't the most likely candidate to have a good NBA career, and as a senior, he is at a disadvantage compared with other college guards, but Diener is a great prospect nonetheless, with a lot of qualities that may attract NBA teams. He is a heady player who is used to carrying his team on his shoulders. He can really fill it up from outside and he should develop into a decent playmaker on the next level. 

With his maturity and offensive skills, it wouldn't be the biggest shock if he could sneak into the late first round. Don't say "won't", or at least keep in mind the draft positions of Dan Dickau and Beno Udrih before you do. If nothing else, he should get a little bit more respect in this list of college point guards. Apart from that, I am very impressed with your analysis.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I love Diener as a college basketball player, but I don't think he quite has the athleticism to make it in the NBA. Just not enough explosion in his step to make it, I don't think. 

Furthermore, I have a real problem with how he is being utilized this season. He's a great shooter and has incredible court vision. What he doesn't have is the ability to dominate the ball and create shots for himself. He seems to be overdribbling a lot, and throwing up a lot of forced jumpshots at the end of the shot clock. With talented guys like Mason and Novak on the team, this shouldn't be happening. Diener is an excellent set up guy, and almost a go-too guy, but not quite. He would be a lot better if he was in a situation like Miles at Kansas or McNamara at Syracuse, where they have a legit post option they can set up and play off of. 

I guess I'd really like to see him go back to the way he played his first two seasons, where he really didn't force things the way he does now. The rest of his team just isn't involved enough in the offense.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

The problem with your draft analysis is that you have almost everyone getting picked.....that just wont happen because there isnt enough spots in the draft....


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

> Then a clear cut below there's Jarrett Jack. Jack's held back by three things, he's very turnover prone, he's not a very good passer, and his attitude. He's still a good player and shows flashes of a Gary Payton-like floor general, but he'll never be confused for GP; he's more of a Frank Williams-like guy (nice potential, but not right in the head).


As an avid follower of Ga. Tech athletics, I would like to know where you got this information. Jack by all accounts is one of the most level headed and most liked players in the college game. Never once have I heard him referred to as a head case or attitude problem.

Now, if you want to talk about the fact he's a physical player who's not a tremendous passer and will turn the ball over at times, I can take that. Make sure to mention he's a tremendous defensive player, and unlike most of the guards you listed he isn't undersized for the NBA.

Check out tape of him just working Christ Paul over in their recent matchup for any questions about his drive to win or his floor leadership, that dude is nails. He absolutely took Paul to the cleaners on the offensive end, then clamped him down on the defensive side. Total domination. Or pull tape of him against Kansas (either game, Elite 8 last year, or on the road at KU this year). Gary Payton is a good comparison of his game, though he's obviously not a hall of famer at this point. Big, physical and punishing guard - very good defender and rebounder for his position.

He won't be a lottery pick, but he's going to make a very nice PG in the NBA. I'd still like to see some background on the attitude issues you seemed to lean on.


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

I'm pretty impressed with what Jack did against Paul. Keep in mind that the latter just recently crushed fellow ACC guard Ray Felton by many accounts. I'm more convinced than ever that JJ will thrive in the League. He will have success that exceeds his draft position and estimated potential. I clearly see him in the Jamaal Tinsley mould, and I can even imagine him coming close in the playmaking department. He is that good, and he has the strong will to realise his potential. 

I have been asked why we list Jack in front of Deron Williams in our mockdraft - which is where he will remain, even after our first update which is due tomorrow - and one explanation is that Jack is a proven winner. He guided GT far into the tournament, and only last year's two best players not named Jameer Nelson could stop him. And we all know what Okafor and Gordon are doing in the NBA, going neck-on-neck for Rookie of the Year honors. Now, with Barry Elder out, GT keeps on winning, even overcoming Wake Forest, and they owed it to Jack in the first place. He is a winner, and we all know where winners wind up in the draft: think of Tony Delk or Juan Dixon for that matter.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ChrisCrossover</b>!
> I have been asked why we list Jack in front of Deron Williams in our mockdraft - which is where he will remain, even after our first update which is due tomorrow - and one explanation is that Jack is a proven winner. He guided GT far into the tournament, and only last year's two best players not named Jameer Nelson could stop him. And we all know what Okafor and Gordon are doing in the NBA, going neck-on-neck for Rookie of the Year honors. Now, with Barry Elder out, GT keeps on winning, even overcoming Wake Forest, and they owed it to Jack in the first place. He is a winner, and we all know where winners wind up in the draft: think of Tony Delk or Juan Dixon for that matter.


Deron Williams seems to be doing a fair amount of winning


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Deron Williams seems to be doing a fair amount of winning


He's the best PG, but most people see his conditioning now and think it's going to be a problem, except once he gets his body in tip top shape, he's going to be a tough guy to keep in front of you. He destroyed Minnesota today.

18/5/6.


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

Glad to see you think highly of him, Crossover. Of all the PG's I've seen play at Point Guard U. (I didn't see Mark Price play, to young for that) ... Jack is my favorite because of the winner's mentality and his intense competitiveness.

That team right now has nobody outside of him and Bynum, and by the end of the WF game he was obviously just exhausted ... and yet still was playing great defense and then stone cold drained the winning free throws. Now, if he could just pass a bit better and cut out about 1 TO/Game ~


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Bump. It's Deron Williams and where are the detractors at? Have you watched this kid? I mean really watched him. He's fantastic.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

guy can shoot, pass, and he's got some guts. you'll find two out of the three in a lot of guys, but hard to come by one that hass all three. i'd take him if i had a lotto pick, and i'd take him before i'd take a Chris Paul or any other PG you'd name.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Chris Paul


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

gross


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Bump for blabla97 and The Mad Viking.

Deron Williams.....legit.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

My Top 4
1-Deron Williams
2-Chris Paul
3-Raymond Felton
4-Jarret Jack


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I think I still take Felton, Jack, and Paul over Wiliams, but it's obvious that his stock is rising. There are few out there anymore that don't think he's a lotto pick.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

My top 5 have been exactly the same for over a year now:

1. Deron Williams (lotto)
2. Ray Felton
3a. John Gilchrist
3b. Jarett Jack
4. Chris Paul


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## uptown4784 (Jul 4, 2004)

Deron Williams should be best PG


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

VincentVega said:


> My top 5 have been exactly the same for over a year now:
> 
> 1. Deron Williams (lotto)
> 2. Ray Felton
> ...


Gilchris tied with Jack and ahead of Paul? I would have agreed with you last season, but he was pretty awful this season. With his up or down depending on the week mentality, it wouldn't be surprsied to see Gilchrist come in and have a huge senior season, but for right now, he's not near the top of my list.


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