# GT #32: Indiana Pacers (16-18) @ Los Angeles Lakers (20-11) [01/06]



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

The Los Angles Lakers 




























]








[PG] D. Fisher [SG] K. Bryant [SF]L. Walton [PF] L. Odom [C] A. Bynum


The Indiana Pacers




































[PG] A. Owens [SG] M. Dunleavy [SF] D. Granger [PF] J. O'Neal [C] T. Murphy

*SCOUTING REPORT*



> Lakers vs. Pacers - 01/06/2007
> 
> Sunday, Jan 6
> 
> ...



*GAME NOTES
SEASON & SERIES NOTES; CONNECTIONS​*


> The Lakers, who lead their current season series with Indiana 1-0 after snapping a four-game Conseco Fieldhouse losing streak with a 134-114 victory November 20, have split each of the last four season series with the Pacers 1-1. This will be the 69th meeting between the two franchises with the Lakers leading the all-time series 50-18. The Lakers are 6-4 in their last 10 overall games against the Pacers. At STAPLES Center, the Lakers are 8-0 all-time against Indiana in the regular season. At Conseco Fieldhouse, however, the Lakers are just 3-6 since it opened in 1999. Under head coach Phil Jackson, the Lakers are 10-5 against Indiana in the regular season. In 20 career games (17 starts) against the Pacers, Kobe Bryant, who owns the series scoring record with 45 points 1/9/06 vs. Indiana at STAPLES Center, is averaging 24.0 points per game. Only Bryant, Derek Fisher and current Lakers assistant coach Brian Shaw were on the court for Los Angeles in the 2000 NBA Finals versus Indiana while no players remain from the Pacer’s 2000 Eastern Conference Champion team. Both Bryant and Jermaine O’Neal entered the NBA straight from high school prior to the 1996-97 season after both playing in the McDonald’s All-America game. Prior to Andrew Bynum playing in the Lakers/Nuggets game November 2, 2005, O’Neal had been the youngest player ever to play in an NBA game. O’Neal (18 years, 53 days) now ranks behind Bynum (18 years, 6 days) and ahead of Bryant (18 years, 72 days).



*INJURY REPORT​*



> *Los Angeles Lakers*
> Record: 20-11
> Streak: Won 1
> 
> ...


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Yeah, so we better win this game. This should be another blowout victory.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Trevor Ariza over O'Neal part 2.0


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Not necessarily a blowout victory, but a comfortable win I'd be fine with. Definitely should not lose this one.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Well considering we beat them by 20 points on their floor last time we played, I think we should get at least a 20-point victory tonight as well.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

This is like taking candy from a baby.


If we lose this one, I will be a Pacers fan for life.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Basel57 said:


> Well considering we beat them by 20 points on their floor last time we played, I think we should get at least a 20-point victory tonight as well.


Lol

Dude we both know it doesnt work that way.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Lol
> 
> Dude we both know it doesnt work that way.


I know, but we've been playing pretty well at home and have blown some teams out lately. I see no reason why the Pacers can't be added to that list. Obviously, I'll end up being happy whether it's a 1-point win or a 30-point win. But a 30-point win is just much more satisfying.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

I think we should beat them by a comfortable margin. Any win by less than 10 points is considered ugly to me.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

If we consider ourselves contenders in the West, this is a must win.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Basel57 said:


> I know, but we've been playing pretty well at home and have blown some teams out lately. I see no reason why the Pacers can't be added to that list. Obviously, I'll end up being happy whether it's a 1-point win or a 30-point win. But a 30-point win is just much more satisfying.


Gotcha.


On that note, with the exception of NOH, our schedule for the next 6 games looks like its going to be a walk in the park. We should go 7-1, if we're going to include wins against the 76ers and the Pacers tonight. That should put us on top of Phoenix as the Pacific Division leader.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I'd like to see Bynum dominate JO.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Lol
> 
> Dude we both know it doesnt work that way.


Especially with the Lakers....


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

You'll see Ariza start this game alongside Odom. Walton started the last game because we needed another play-maker in the starting five, with Odom out of the game.

Fisher/Farmar
Kobe/Crittenton
Ariza/Walton
Odom/Turiaf
Bynum/Kwame

That'll be our rotation for tonight.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

We should win this game.

I know this year we have done well against the teams we should beat.. But anyone else still have last few season jitters, and start thinking about all the scrub teams we played down to and lost.

I know this team has seemingly changed mentality completely, but I still get more nervous when we play teams that should be easy victors, vs teams like the Suns where I know the Lakers will have to play a perfect game to win.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Lets see if Ariza can keep it up...Its been a great honeymoon so far


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Damian Necronamous said:


> You'll see Ariza start this game alongside Odom. Walton started the last game because we needed another play-maker in the starting five, with Odom out of the game.
> 
> Fisher/Farmar
> Kobe/Crittenton
> ...


Ariza isn't starting.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Three minutes in and we still haven't scored.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

0-6


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

luke's D is already bothering me.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Horrible start to the quarter, but now we're right back in it. About time.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Nice, two technicals called on the Pacers now. One on Dunleavy and the other on the coach. Good job Pacers.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Bad call on the charge but ill take it.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Luke Walton is trash!


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Luke actually hit a ****ing shot!!!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

20-5 run by the Lakers. I'm just happy Luke hit that 3 from the corner. Now bring in Ariza.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

lol did you guys see jordan do the turiaf dance with... turiaf/


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Here comes "Tiereable" Brown


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Lakers didn't score in the first four minutes...and still put up 33 points in the 1st quarter. Nice!

After 1 quarter, the Lakers lead 33-23 after being down 10 early on.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Sooner or later Lamar or Bynum is going to accidentally take the other out if they keep fighting for rebounds.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Cris said:


> Here comes "Tiereable" Brown


Oh Christ! I forgot he played for us...:lol:


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Ugly start but we started heating up at the end. Were passing the ball very well. Everyone is looking for the open man and were picking apart the Pacer defense.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Nice steal by Kobe.. Then he took probably the ugliest three pointer Ive seen from him this season. Yikes.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Wow... Kwame is really trash. I mean at least before he was big and beastly in shape... But now he looks a little fat, slow, and insecure. Add that to the fact he already was horrible.. You get an even worse combination.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Critt in for Kobe. Lets see what he does coming off his first impressive game of the season.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Kwame really needs to get on the exercise bike!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Did Kwame just nail two free throws? This should be breaking news on SportsCenter.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Basel57 said:


> Did Kwame just nail two free throws? This should be breaking news on SportsCenter.


It was.You missed it!


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Ok, he's got two more free throws coming. If he hits both of them... I think that is a sign to start going to walmart and stocking up on canned food and water, and building some sort of bomb shelter in the basement.

The world would be ending.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

There we go.. Earth abides... Humanity is safe for now.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Lead down to 4...


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

"of course it was in Brazilian and I couldn't read it" 

o rlly?


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Wow.. Kobe's shot is horrible tonight. Normally they are in and out, and close. Tonight he is clanking.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

There goes Bynum displaying more of his lack of post game.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

How many Ex-Laker scrubs did the Pacers pick up? Im just waiting for Smush to come out in a Pacers jersey.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

WTF is wrong with Kobe tonight...


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

What the hell is going on?


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

I really wish we would get rid of Walton. He is horrible ever since he got his nice fat contract.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

This is terrible.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

What a terrible game...


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Kobe's 2/10 with 4 turnovers...very bad night.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Ever since I started watching the Lakers have been playing bad, maybe I should stop watching them.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Eternal said:


> Ever since I started watching the Lakers have been playing bad, maybe I should stop watching them.


I think you should.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Nevermind Lakers are playing decent now, I'll continue to watch.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Nice play by Kobe there to Bynum.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Bynum is the only one really playing well. He already has 21 points. 7 more will tie his career high, but if the Lakers don't win this game, it will mean nothing.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

We are playing like ****...

This game really should be a 15 point lead going into halftime and Kobe isnt playing very well either..


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Thank God for Bynum in this half. 

54-52 Lakers at the half.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Wow, this is far from impressive. Jeff freaking Foster is the one keeping the Pacers in the game. This guy sucks. Can someone please put a body on him?

He has no skill whatsoever, he's just hustling out there and none of our guys are matching his intensity.

It's plainly obvious that none of the Pacers can guard Andrew Bynum, so why don't we give him the ball a little bit more? Kobe looks like he is half awake out there and isn't even trying, and everyone else doesn't seem to be very interested in playing defense.

Man, Kobe looks awful tonight.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Norm Nixon is a stoner.. No doubt in my mind..


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Norm Nixon is a stoner.. No doubt in my mind..


Thanks for the insightful information.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Eternal said:


> Thanks for the insightful information.


Thanks for the insightful comment!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Cris said:


> Thanks for the insightful comment!


Thanks for...nothing!


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Looks like a few of the other mods are on their monthly deal... Edgey..


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

If anyone has a better feed than raptorsnation, please pm it my way.. it freezes every two minutes or so..


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

A couple of things that need to be clearified:

1. Enough with the Kwame bash. Kwame may look like oversize meatball out there but he can still guard the post like nobody's business. O'neil was eating up Bynum.

2. Kobe was bad but he had nothing to do with this game. If you look at the boxscore you will notice that Kwame has more points than Odom as of right now which should never happen if you are supposed to be the second option. 

3. Walton sucks - especialy his defense against Granger. Look at last game; Andre got into the paint twice and then Phil yanked Walton. To make a long story short, the Lakers won by 31. Walton does not get yanked this time against Granger - lakers up by only 2 against a bum team.

4. This has nothing to do with todays game but it is somthing that I'm concerned about: Bynum NEVER goes off glass for some reason. He really needs to change that or else he will never be any better than what he is right now. Him going off glass will put his shot at an angle where it is harder to be blocked. If Bynum can improve on that and also his off hand then he will be an awsome. Till then, he will only score if he is in a mis match or a lob situation.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

good thing the pacers are terrible...


we really shouldnt be winning this game.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

The One said:


> A couple of things that need to be clearified:
> 
> 1. Enough with the Kwame bash. Kwame may look like oversize meatball out there but he can still guard the post like nobody's business. O'neil was eating up Bynum.
> 
> ...


Nice post. :cheers:


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Everyone's looking much better in the 3rd quarter. 13-point lead now, biggest lead of the game.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Only one bad thing about this quarter: Bynum hasn't shot the ball at all. He's rebounding it, but he's not really getting many touches.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Kobe catching on fire.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

We're winning...


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

anytime i see farmer/ariza going in for fisher/walton combo i'm happy


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

7/10 threes so far for the team. That's great to see. Ariza's hit two of them!


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Kobe, the Destroyer of Worlds is back lol


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

cameraman checking out the asian milf whoo hoo


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Troy Murphy has one of the ugliest shots I've ever seen.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Seriously fellas. We're actually beating teams that we are supposed to beat... convincingly..


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

The One said:


> A couple of things that need to be clearified:
> 
> 1. Enough with the Kwame bash. Kwame may look like oversize meatball out there but he can still guard the post like nobody's business. O'neil was eating up Bynum.
> 
> ...


Kobe is playing awful. When I look at the box score at the end of the third, I see Kobe shooting 6 of 17, with 4 TO's. He's been handling the ball better in the second half, but he is still taking poor shots. I wouldn't say he is entirely to blame for the poor play going into the third, but he he really helped it. 

Kwame played good defense on JO. But JO started out hot and made some pretty impressive shots that I don't think anyone, was going to stop. He cooled down, and Bynum has played him very effectively in the second. 

Odom on the other hand is 5-5 with 10 rebounds. Call me crazy I'd take that over Kobes performance tonight anyday. I think we have already came to the conclusion that Odom is never going to be the second option. What he will be is a consistent double/double man, who has the ability to run the ball on fast breaks. 

Bynum will develope some glass skills eventually. But he doesn't need them now to improve now. With Bynums soft touch, he doesn't need the glass. If the guy was shooting under 50 percent, I'd say well.. Maybe he needs to start working on using the glass.. But he shoots great. Bynums shooting over 70 percent so far tonight, It think his offensive skill set is right on track for a 20 year old.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Seriously fellas. We're actually beating teams that we are supposed to beat... convincingly..


I know. But were Laker fans. Were fickle. Were going to trash anyone playing poorly even if we are up 15.

But it sure is nice to see the Lakers beating the teams that last season would end there loosing streaks against us.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Kobe is lucky that the team has Bynum, because hes saving the team's *** from all of Kobe's dreadful shooting performances this season.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> I know. But were Laker fans. Were fickle. Were going to trash anyone playing poorly even if we are up 15.
> 
> But it sure is nice to see the Lakers beating the teams that last season would end there loosing streaks against us.


I'm just as fickle as you guys... I was simply pointing out the difference from prior years where we play horribly against **** teams.. Things are getting better! This is an especially crucial stretch if you look at how brutal the February schedule is.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Is it just me or has our "bench mob" not been playing nearly as well as they did to start the season?

They've allowed the lead to shrink down to 10 points, and they're turning it over like crazy.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Drewbs said:


> Kobe is lucky that the team has Bynum, because hes saving the team's *** from all of Kobe's dreadful shooting performances this season.


Alright Phil, play time is over. And why does Kwame even attempt to make moves in the post?


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Our bench is stinknig it up again. Starters sit down, and now were down to a 10 point lead. And Kwame turned it over two times in a row. It's killing me. Put the starters in there and finish this strong.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Good god.. Six TO's in the fourth already.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

6 turnovers now in the 4th quarter...it appears that there is absolutely NO team chemistry with this group right now.

And Dunleavy just nailed a 3 and it's a 7-point game...starters better get back in and take care of business.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Wow.... A three by Mike Jr. 18 point lead goes down to 7.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I'm not even pissed at the players right now. Everyone and their mamas knew that unit was going to blow the lead. Phil waits until 5:30 left in the game and for our lead to completely diminish before he makes a substitution? What a frickin moron.

We scored 2pts the whole damned time and Phil just sat there on his *** and did nothing. God, he makes me sick sometimes.

If we somehow lose this game, it is entirely his fault.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Thank god.. Starters are in. I half thought it might be possible Phil would keep the second unit out there... To get them to work it out.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Got to love when Kobe is playing like trash then comes off the bench and drains a couple baskets.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Kobe comes right back in and nails two jumpers in a row to get the lead back up to 11. Amazing how he goes from having a HORRIBLE shooting night and quite possibly finishing with a decent one.

And Fish just nailed a 3! I love the starters!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

And now a 20-point lead! There you go!


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

I half way thought that Phil might play a mindgame and leave the bench mob in to close the game. :laugh:


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> I half way thought that Phil might play a mindgame and leave the bench mob in to close the game. :laugh:


I did to! HAHAHA

Thats pretty sad that we even have to fear that as a possibility. :lol:


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Three players with 20+ points.


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## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Fisher is on fire! Great acquisition by the Lakers no doubt.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I hope Coby Karl scores here. The crowd would go crazy, and the players would love it.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Another *** whooping. We're good! One more defensive presence in the paint, improved youth, health, and added chemistry and we are looking at a contender.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Well, the two guys that absolutely stunk up the first half ended up being the two that won the game for us.

It is terrible how Phil screws around with the second unit and relies on the starters as an insurance policy to win games that really are not that close. The starters should have been in there way sooner than they were. It almost cost us the game, and we are extremely lucky that it didn't.

Are we unbeatable when Bynum gets 20 and 10? He looked great out there again tonight.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

BTW, special thanks to my compadres Basel and Eternal for the links.


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## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Another *** whooping. We're good! One more defensive presence in the paint, improved youth, health, and added chemistry and we are looking at a contender.



Another thing I noticed is that Kobe's shooting woes continues. Tonight is a good example, though he did got hot at the right time. If Kobe can start hitting the shots that he normally makes then I think the Lakers would simply become unstoppable.


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## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Well, the two guys that absolutely stunk up the first half ended up being the two that won the game for us.
> 
> It is terrible how Phil screws around with the second unit and relies on the starters as an insurance policy to win games that really are not that close. The starters should have been in there way sooner than they were. It almost cost us the game, and we are extremely lucky that it didn't.
> 
> Are we unbeatable when Bynum gets 20 and 10? He looked great out there again tonight.


Its probably just me, but I like it. It build character among the first and second unit.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Sloppy game...but a good win. I thought Bynum was going to have another career night. However, he hardly got any second half touches. What's up with that???


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

ceejaynj said:


> Sloppy game...but a good win. I thought Bynum was going to have another career night. However, he hardly got any second half touches. What's up with that???


Story of the season.

It will change come playoff time.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

We're only a couple more good games from Fisher and Bynum away from having four guys that average 13+ppg.

It really is unbelieveable how simply not having a total idiot at PG can make a team so much better.

'07-08 Fisher >>> '06-07 Smush
'07-08 Bynum >>> '06-07 Kwame


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Story of the season.
> 
> It will change come playoff time.


I spy optimism.  Ruh roh!


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Good thing Mitch didn't make trades in the summer eh?

If the Lakers go 5-2 in the next 7 games they will have the same record they had at that point last season!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Don't know if it was mentioned by the way, but all five starters scored at least 10 points. The Lakers are 7-0 when all five starters score in double figures.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Monster game from Bynum. Definitely my new favorite player. Ariza hitting some long jumpers, that's always nice to see. Luke needs to play fewer minutes, but otherwise was halfway decent.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Kobe is playing awful. When I look at the box score at the end of the third, I see Kobe shooting 6 of 17, with 4 TO's. He's been handling the ball better in the second half, but he is still taking poor shots. I wouldn't say he is entirely to blame for the poor play going into the third, but he he really helped it.
> 
> Kwame played good defense on JO. But JO started out hot and made some pretty impressive shots that I don't think anyone, was going to stop. He cooled down, and Bynum has played him very effectively in the second.
> 
> ...


That post I made was a report about Halftime. Your post is about after the third quarter which has nothing to do with mine.

As for Bynum, He has great touch but too often I see his shot blocked when he is matched up well. Bynum can't live off of lobs and mismatches for his career. 60% of that issue can be solved if he utilizes the backboard. A player cannot rely on 'Eventually'. He has to learn Glass NOW. Bynum has been in the league for 3 years now and there's no reason why he has not used glass ONCE. Personaly I blame Kareem - yeah it's blasphemy but it seems like he taght Bynum so many hook shot that Bynum soon forgot that there's a backboard too. Yes Bynum is only 20 years old but as long as we and Laker officials used this excuse (whether it's good or not), Bynum will continue to used that excuse for his skill requirement. 

The only good side note is that, this is exactly how Dwight Howard was: a lob machine, but this year he aquired the hook shot, glass and post moves and now he is considered one of the best centers in the league right now.

BUT all of those things that Dwight mastered, he still practiced them often during games so bynum needs to do the same. Every chance he gets, Bynum needs to go off glass and use his off hand. He cannot settle just for what he good at right now. He needs to expand his game.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

i don't see why using glass is so important to andrew's game.. it's more about his post game, ie his game with his back to the basket.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

afobisme said:


> i don't see why using glass is so important to andrew's game.. it's more about his post game, ie his game with his back to the basket.


LOL...and that involves his ability to use the backboard on his shots.....


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

how about we see him go aggressively to the post before we ask to see him use the backboard? he needs to be in a position where using the backboard would benefit him...

right now, it's not even that important. even with a post game, using the backboard isn't that monumental anyways. it's important, but not THAT important.


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

Great game and win last night!


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

afobisme; said:


> how about we see him go aggressively to the post before we ask to see him use the backboard? he needs to be in a position where using the backboard would benefit him...
> 
> right now, it's not even that important. even with a post game, using the backboard isn't that monumental anyways. it's important, but not THAT important.


i might have to disagree, and remind y'all about a fellow named tim duncan. ever heard of him? if bynum had a bank-shot from 5-8 feet, his post-up game would be near unstoppable.

shaq didn't become an mvp until he mastered that bank hook from just outside the paint. when that was falling, he could spin and dunk all day.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

The One said:


> That post I made was a report about Halftime. Your post is about after the third quarter which has nothing to do with mine.
> 
> As for Bynum, He has great touch but too often I see his shot blocked when he is matched up well. Bynum can't live off of lobs and mismatches for his career. 60% of that issue can be solved if he utilizes the backboard. A player cannot rely on 'Eventually'. He has to learn Glass NOW. Bynum has been in the league for 3 years now and there's no reason why he has not used glass ONCE. Personaly I blame Kareem - yeah it's blasphemy but it seems like he taght Bynum so many hook shot that Bynum soon forgot that there's a backboard too. Yes Bynum is only 20 years old but as long as we and Laker officials used this excuse (whether it's good or not), Bynum will continue to used that excuse for his skill requirement.
> 
> ...



How often does Shaq (in his prime) rely on the backboard? How often does Yao? I'm not saying those players do not use the backboard, it's just not in use at least most of the time. Bynum will never be a banger. He doesn't need to be. He has a touch that lets him hit a highly efficient shot. 

Do you honestly believe if Bynum took double the shots he does per game right now, his shooting percentage would fall below 50 percent? If so you are watching a different player than me. Even his bad shots, look like good ones most of the time.

Bynum getting blocked a lot? This season? Sure he has been blocked.... But I think your exaggerating. I'd be shocked if he has been blocked more than 10 times in the last 20 games. Considering some of the competition's he has played against (Amare, Howard, KG), I'd consider that good numbers considering he himself has been blocking people like crazy.

Don't fool yourself into thinking Howard is a better shooter than Bynum. Howard is MUCH better than Bynum. He has a more complete game. By Howard wishes he had Bynums hands and extra length. Bynum can hit free throws, shots a higher percentage, and gets far less touches per game than Howard. 

As for criticizing Kareem.. Last time I checked you nor I were invited to there private training lessons. We have no clue what Bynum is being taught. But don't take this personally, I'd take the MVP Kareem's coaching over yours. In just one years grow Bynum has gone from being a nobody, to being a top 5 center in the NBA. I believe that a lot of it comes down to Bynums conditioning and his work with Kareem. 

Only thing Bynum really needs to learn right NOW, is to start calling people out who completely miss him when he is open on in the post. Kobe has done great things lately trying to find Bynum in the post. I'd like to see someone other than Fisher and Kobe finding Bynum. Namely Lamar. I'd also like to see them actually look for him in the second half, when he is producing. How many coaches so far this season have said they havent had any answers for Bynums dominance in the post? Hell, every time they touched last night they fouled him. It was all they could do to try and stop him from scoring. 

Just wait come play off time. I'd wager anyone here Bynum will get near double the shot attempts he does now, and will be good for a minimum of 20/10.

If I'm wrong, feel free to bump this thread and throw it in my face. Cause when I'm right I know I will do the same. :biggrin:


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Damian Necronamous said:


> I'm not even pissed at the players right now. Everyone and their mamas knew that unit was going to blow the lead. Phil waits until 5:30 left in the game and for our lead to completely diminish before he makes a substitution? What a frickin moron.
> 
> We scored 2pts the whole damned time and Phil just sat there on his *** and did nothing. God, he makes me sick sometimes.
> 
> If we somehow lose this game, it is entirely his fault.



You are out of your mind.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

edit


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

if andrew starts using the glass more often i'm gonna call little Timmy Bynum.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

dannyM said:


> if andrew starts using the glass more often i'm gonna call little Timmy Bynum.


TIMMAY!!!


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Good thing Mitch didn't make trades in the summer eh?


I would amend that to say good thing Mitch didn't trade Bynum. (Which I did advocate, I admit) But there are a few other players I wouldn't mind having shipped out.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

isn't there always...(me too)


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> TIMMAY!!!


you got it wrong son

IT'S

TIM MEEE YEAH YEEEEEE YEAH YEEEEEEEEEEE


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I would amend that to say good thing Mitch didn't trade Bynum. (Which I did advocate, I admit) But there are a few other players I wouldn't mind having shipped out.


I never advocated trading Bynum. Although if they would have made the trade for KG (never was going to happen)i would have been on board. Even though long term I think Laker's probably would pay the price on such a trade. Especially if we didn't get a title when KG came over, and he just got old and useless. 

I liked the concept in theory of trading Odom and filler for JO. The thought of those two guys in the post at the same time gave me a few wet dreams. I will not lie, the bed had been soiled in hopes and dreams.

But with JO's health history (not that much worse than Odoms, I guess) I was still scared. Shoulder injuries, etc suck.. But the knee problems JO has had always bring up some serious fears about his longevity in the league.

But we'd be pretty scary with Bynum, JO (healthy), Trevor, Kobe and Fisher come playoff time. I keep hope though that Odom will play great after the all star break. He tends to go off on the second half of the season.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

bump...


CDRacingZX6R said:


> *1.* How often does Shaq (in his prime) rely on the backboard? *2.* How often does Yao? *3.* Bynum will never be a banger. He doesn't need to be. He has a touch that lets him hit a highly efficient shot.
> 
> *4.* Do you honestly believe if Bynum took double the shots he does per game right now, his shooting percentage would fall below 50 percent? If so you are watching a different player than me. Even his bad shots, look like good ones most of the time.
> 
> ...


*1.* Shaq is the only player I can remember that nearly all of his post plays end with a dunk even if he is near the foul line. And when he didn't dunk _he did you use glass_. 

*2.* Yao has a consistent jump shot....nuff said.

*3.* That is true but Bynum not being a Banger gives more reason for him to expand his game. What bangers are good at is creating space while in the post via getting the defender off balance so that it is easy to dunk or hook shot. Going off glass is a finesse move - look at Duncan.

*4.* No I don't believe his percentage will drop below 50% but only because he is good enough to shot over 50% with his length. All I'm talking about is expanding his game. If he is going to continue doing hook shots then he going to have to be consistent at clearing space when he is in the post. Bynum has great length so most of the time he can shoot over defenders but there will be times when length isn't enough where he will have to be a banger and create more room(just like what he did this past game against Jermaine O'niel) or use finesse and switch up and go off glass with is off hand or his shooting hand. OR, even better, acquire a jump shot.

*5. *Exaggerating*? *Yeah a bit. Sorry about that. I was also including (in thought) miss shots too. Hook shots have a very high margin for error, mainly because most of them don't have arc. Going off glass will force you to put arc on the bull to hit the glass right so that if you are a little to long or short on the shot, shooters-touch should take effect. It will also make it harder for the defender to block since the shot creats a bad angle for the defender.

*6*. In this post you said "Howard is MUCH better than Bynum. *He has a more complete game"* so my question to you is why shouldn't Bynum strive to complete his game and be like Howard?

*7*. I never questioned the good things that Kareem brought to Bynum. All I said was that Bynum never goes off glass. There are only 3 posible reasons why: 1. either Kareem isn't showing him backboard moves or 2. Bynum is just refusing to use them or 3. Both 1 and 2. 
I just happened to use reason No. 1 in my last post.

*8.* This I agree with you completely. Most of the time Bynum is in a mismatch and the ball still does not go in his hands.

*9.* Well I too can almost guarantee that if Bynum got twice as many touches, he WILL average 20/10. To me, however, that is not good enough. It's good enough for the Lakers to be decent but it's shouldn't be good enough for Bynum. Bynum has the length to be Completely Untoppable if he has the Kobe instinct to always search for how he can expand his game. That and only that alone will make him great.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

The One said:


> bump...
> 
> *1.* Shaq is the only player I can remember that nearly all of his post plays end with a dunk even if he is near the foul line. And when he didn't dunk _he did you use glass_.


That's not entirely accurate. Shaq developed a very decent hook that he used that didn't involve the backboard often. One could argue that aside from dunking, that was his most consistent move at least during his Laker years. 

If he is the only player you can remember not using the glass, than you either don't watch other teams or have a horrible memory. We were just talking about Howard. Howard does use glass occasionally, but just like Amare the majority of there points come off of dunks, and in the case of Amare (sometimes a jump shot here and there). 


> *2.* Yao has a consistent jump shot....nuff said.


True, but Yao is also considered by many people soft. Although he has toughened up a lot the last few years, he still doesn't have the strength to over power guys like Howard regularly in the post. So he depends on an outside shot. 

Bynum at 20 years old has already established a strength and dominance in finishing in the paint (hence again, why he is second or third (I dont know if if changed lately) in the league in dunks right now. He doesn't need to rely on banging or out side shooting at the moment, because he is a strong finisher at the rim with his soft touch and ability to jam with two hands.

And don't give me the "He's only second/third in dunks because of the alley ops passes. If no skill went into that, guys like your second favorite player Kwame would do it regularly. Bynum has great hands, good foot work, and good basketball IQ at 20. He also has some of the best natural hands I've seen in a center in a LONG time. Hence why he always gets the nice bounce in the basket. Stu Lance (your buddy you quoted earlier) even said that he had some of the best hands he's seen. 

*3.* That is true but Bynum not being a Banger gives more reason for him to expand his game. What bangers are good at is creating space while in the post via getting the defender off balance so that it is easy to dunk or hook shot. Going off glass is a finesse move - look at Duncan.[/QUOTE]

I never said Bynum wouldn't grow into banging. What I said is right now, he doesn't need it. He still is becoming proficient at the most important facets of his game. Finishing strong with two hands to avoid potentially being blocked or missing. And quick foot work with baby hooking. Then of course, don't forget the fact that his soft touch and length often give him second chance points off his own misses. Those facets are important, and at 20 years old he is ahead of many. 

I mean lets be realistic, when your shooting near 70 percent in the last 15 or so games, rather banging would only increase that or not, your already far above the bar and the majority of centers in the NBA.

And again I ask, if Bynum had double the shot attempts, would he not still be above 50 percent? You said yes, and thats not good enough. Why don't you hold players like Bryant accountable for the same thing? No one says Bryant has to shoot obnoxious jump shots that kill his percentage. No one said he isn't allowed to into the post more often (something everyone here has wanted him to do more since the last three years). *Why would Kobe's 27 on under 45% be better than Bynum's potential 20-25 at 55 or so percent be any better? *If you hold one player, young or not to one standard, why not hold all players to it? 



> *5. *Exaggerating*? *Yeah a bit. Sorry about that. I was also including (in thought) miss shots too. Hook shots have a very high margin for error, mainly because most of them don't have arc. Going off glass will force you to put arc on the bull to hit the glass right so that if you are a little to long or short on the shot, shooters-touch should take effect. It will also make it harder for the defender to block since the shot creats a bad angle for the defender.


Hook shots do have a very high margin of error. No one can argue that. Sky hooks to. But if you get good at it, they are far harder to defend. Require being less physical work to get closer to the post than typical (not all) banging. Kareem mastered a sky hook. A ridiculous shot by most peoples standards, but made him virtually unguardible when he was on. Obviously the baby hook is not as impressive, but it's still a difficult shot to block especially when the guy shooting it has a 9'4 wingspan. 

The wonderful thing as you pointed out with Bynums length is when he does miss, he often is long enough to get his own rebound and go for it again. He has done this often. Not only is impressive to get your own rebound and put it back in, but when your percentage is still near 70 percent, your not living off of it either. 


> *6*. In this post you said "Howard is MUCH better than Bynum. *He has a more complete game"* so my question to you is why shouldn't Bynum strive to complete his game and be like Howard?


Come on now, where did I ever say Bynum is done growing? All I said is Bynum is the most consistent player the Laker's have right now. Rather he is the most impactful or not (Obviously Kobe has the most impact on a game), but every night for the most part you can count on Bynum leaving the game with at least 10/10 with limited shot attempts. When guys like you spend there entire season defending Kwame (which you have done a lot throughout the last three seasons), it's just confusing why you would nit pick Bynum's steady progression and not criticize guys like Kwame?


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> That's not entirely accurate. *Shaq developed a very decent hook that he used that didn't involve the backboard often. *One could argue that aside from dunking, that was his most consistent move at least during his Laker years.


During his prime, Nearly all of Shaq's Hook shots went off glass...Everybody here knows that.



> If he is the only player you can remember not using the glass, than you either don't watch other teams or have a horrible memory. We were just talking about Howard. Howard does use glass occasionally, but just like Amare the majority of there points come off of dunks, and in the case of Amare (sometimes a jump shot here and there).


I think you are assuming that I'm exaggerating again. I literally mean that Bynum has not gone off glass ONCE.....zip. Of course there are a lot of players that use glass very sparingly but Bynum has not used glass at all period which is marveling to me.




> True, but Yao is also considered by many people soft. Although he has toughened up a lot the last few years, he still doesn't have the strength to over power guys like Howard regularly in the post. So he depends on an outside shot.


 ok:cheers:



> Bynum at 20 years old has already established a strength and dominance in finishing in the paint (hence again, why he is second or third (I dont know if if changed lately) in the league in dunks right now. He doesn't need to rely on banging or out side shooting at the moment, because he is a strong finisher at the rim with his soft touch and ability to jam with two hands.


There is a lot of things that Bynum does not need to do right now to get his numbers. All I'm just saying is that it doesn't hurt to learn more stuff while he is still younng



> *1.* And don't give me the "He's only second/third in dunks because of the alley ops passes. If no skill went into that, guys *2.* like your second favorite player Kwame would do it regularly. *3. *Bynum has great hands, good foot work, and good basketball IQ at 20. He also has some of the best natural hands I've seen in a center in a LONG time. Hence why he always gets the nice bounce in the basket. Stu Lance (your buddy you quoted earlier) even said that he had some of the best hands he's seen.


 *1*. You beat me to it:biggrin: *2.* I don't know how you force Kwame Brown into this. *3.* Ok:cheers:



> *I never said Bynum wouldn't grow into banging*. What I said is right now, he doesn't need it. He still is becoming proficient at the most important facets of his game. Finishing strong with two hands to avoid potentially being blocked or missing. And quick foot work with baby hooking. Then of course, don't forget the fact that his soft touch and length often give him second chance points off his own misses. Those facets are important, and at 20 years old he is ahead of many.


 You just said that 'Bynum will never be a banger'.....



> I mean lets be realistic, when your shooting near 70 percent in the last 15 or so games, rather banging would only increase that or not, your already far above the bar and the majority of centers in the NBA.


 True.:cheers:



> And again I ask, if Bynum had double the shot attempts, would he not still be above 50 percent? You said yes, and thats not good enough? Why don't you hold players like Bryant accountable for the same thing? No one says Bryant has to shoot obnoxious jump shots that kill his percentage. No one said he isn't allowed to into the post more often (something everyone here has wanted him to do more since the last three years). *Why would Kobe's 27 on under 45% be better than Bynum's potential 20-25 at 55 or so percent be any better? *If you hold one player, young or not to one standard, why not hold all players to it?


 What does this debate have to do with Kobe's shooting %? We already know that kobe isn't 7 feet and often take some bad shots.



> Hook shots do have a very high margin of error. No one can argue that. Sky hooks to. But if you get good at it, they are far harder to defend. Require being less physical work to get closer to the post than typical (not all) banging. Kareem mastered a sky hook. A ridiculous shot by most peoples standards, but made him virtually unguardible when he was on. Obviously the baby hook is not as impressive, but it's still a difficult shot to block especially when the guy shooting it has a 9'4 wingspan.


 That could be Bynum's issue. The Ski Hook has a lot of arc which eliminates the block issue and also creates shooter's touch. Most of Bynum's shoots are regular hooks shots which are usually flat. Hopefully Kareem will continue to get the best out of Bynum as much as possible.



> The wonderful thing as you pointed out with Bynums length is when he does miss, he often is long enough to get his own rebound and go for it again. He has done this often. Not only is impressive to get your own rebound and put it back in, but when your percentage is still near 70 percent, your not living off of it either.


 OK :cheers: 




> Come on now, where did I ever say Bynum is done growing?


 No, you never did say that. But I'm more concerned about procrastination. When I here comment's like 'He good for his age' that COULD lead players into being *satisfied* for some time, which a great player should Never be. 


> When guys like you spend there entire season defending Kwame (which you have done a lot throughout the last three seasons), it's just confusing why you would nit pick Bynum's steady progression and not criticize guys like Kwame?


 Again somehow you queeze Kwame into this.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

I only squeeze Kwame in here because you defended him rabidly over the years. I've always just wondered why some people give him a pass on trivial things, but Bynum since drafted has been held to a much higher standard from day one.

I also put Kobe in there, because you defend him a lot as well. He is the best player in the Lakers no doubt, so I understand the defense. But why you wouldn't get annoyed with the supposed second coming of Jordan who averages such a lower percentage, has always baffled me. And when you say things like averaging over 50 percent, and getting 20 plus points isn't good enough.. I ask then why is it good enough when Kobe gets 27 on 43-44 percent?

Basically, in the purpose of bringing up those guys I'm mainly showing that with some players there is this automatic free pass. Kobe is amazingly talented and probably the most gifted player in the NBA. But he can still improve his game. Kwame sucks, but even so I think if he had the heart could improve his game. Hopefully until the end of Drews career he continues to improve. If he does, then that says a lot considering how good he is already at 20.

:cheers:


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

The One said:


> I think you are assuming that I'm exaggerating again. I literally mean that Bynum has not gone off glass ONCE.....zip. Of course there are a lot of players that use glass very sparingly but Bynum has not used glass at all period which is marveling to me.


Actually, exagerating is exactly what you are doing. And of course you dont _literally mean_ that Bynum has not gone off glass once.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

elcap15 said:


> Actually, exagerating is exactly what you are doing. And of course you dont _literally mean_ that Bynum has not gone off glass once.


I'll tell you what, lets see if Bynum goes off glass once tonight. If so I will shut up about this topic.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

well, andrew went off the glass tonight. you can "shut up" already.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

afobisme said:


> well, andrew went off the glass tonight. you can "shut up" already.


Yes and both glass shots he did were smooth makes. He needs to do that all the time because tonight he did not have the tpye of game he should of had. But a deal is a deal and this will be the last time a talk about it.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm telling you Andrew reads the forums. He wanted to burn The One tonight. :lol:


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> I'm telling you *Andrew reads the forums*. He wanted to burn The One tonight. :lol:


That was my goal  I was excited that he went off glass. That shows some sign of progress.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

The One got pwned


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

im pretty sure the memphis game isn't the first time he's had a bank shot.. 

also, he hasn't posted up much, which explains why it seems like he hardly banks the shot.. alley oops and putbacks are usually not banked, and that's where he gets the bulk of his points.


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