# OT: Big Changes in Dallas/Walker Article



## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2004/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1792353



While Walker might not be the best player in the leauge and at times takes very ill advised shots or too early in the shot-clock shots, BUT you have to say this guy is the consummate team player and a real professional. 

He could be *****ing about his minutes now or the fact that he has to play center, but he isn't. 90% of the "stars" in the league would be. He wants to come back to Dallas, but from the tone of the article it doesn't seem overly likely.

Where do people think, if not Dallas, he will end up next year?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

He has an expiring deal correct? Wouldn't be surprised to see him packaged for someone out of New York (Kurt Thomas), Chicago (Antonio Davis), Miami (Brian Grant), Portland (Dale Davis), New Orleans (PJ Brown)

Someone to help the Mavs down low, but also to free up cap room for the other team.


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## h180ys (Nov 10, 2003)

Watching the Dal/Sac game, I don't regret Ainge traded Antoine away. AW turns the ball over so many times. If I were the GM, I would trade him away too.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>h180ys</b>!
> Watching the Dal/Sac game, I don't regret Ainge traded Antoine away. AW turns the ball over so many times. If I were the GM, I would trade him away too.


And yet the guy who's leading the nba playoffs and top 5 in the regular season for turnovers per game is still on the Celtics.

It's funny, Antoine played on a injured leg vs a very good defender, had a terrible series. People call for his head.

Next year, at the same age, Paul Pierce suffers a similar injury, has a terrible series. People keep on praising him.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

We should re-sign Blount and package him with Mihm and McCarty and get Walker back :-D


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

You know what's even funnier? 

The Mavs' 5 all-star players all had 3 turnovers each.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I think Chicago wants him badly and could sorely use him so I think somehow he ends up in Chicago.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> I think Chicago wants him badly and could sorely use him so I think somehow he ends up in Chicago.


Chicago seems like a very logical place. Its where he's from and its a team that desperately needs someone with Walker's leadership abilities. Dallas needed that too, but unlike the Mavs, the Bulls don't have anything going for them except potential. Walker is the type of guy that will wake up Curry, Crawford, and Chandler, and make them what they should be.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> 
> Chicago seems like a very logical place. Its where he's from and its a team that desperately needs someone with Walker's leadership abilities. Dallas needed that too, but unlike the Mavs, the Bulls don't have anything going for them except potential. Walker is the type of guy that will wake up Curry, Crawford, and Chandler, and make them what they should be.


yeah, but I am assuming that if they got him one or more of the three C's wouldn't be around. Walker will have to be traded, you would have to be insane not to pick up the option if you were him


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

Why let facts get in the way of someone elses reality Aquaitious.
We all know why this article was printed here.

Pierce didn't have an injury this year and Ron Artest ate him alive but it wasn't his fault. His teammates had no playoff experience (Don't seem to remember Walker or Pierce having any in 2002 either and they did pretty well)


For a player never on anyones top 20 lists of players Antoine certainly gets a lot of press by Marc Stein (among others) That proves the scape goat theory perfectly to me.




> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> And yet the guy who's leading the nba playoffs and top 5 in the regular season for turnovers per game is still on the Celtics.
> ...


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> Why let facts get in the way of someone elses reality Aquaitious.
> We all know why this article was printed here.
> 
> Pierce didn't have an injury this year and Ron Artest ate him alive but it wasn't his fault.


He sprained his ankle in Miami the last week of the season, that's why he sat out the last couple regular season games.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> Why let facts get in the way of someone elses reality Aquaitious.
> We all know why this article was printed here.



what the hell does this mean? Did you even read my comments. Oh I'm so sorry, are we not allowed to post articles so people can keep up on what former Celtics are doing?

If you really want to know why I put it up read my post.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

He didn't sprain anything. It didn't stop him from being seen around Boston partying so I seriously doubt this alleged injury was anything but a future excuse if he needed it.





> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> 
> He sprained his ankle in Miami the last week of the season, that's why he sat out the last couple regular season games.


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> He didn't sprain anything. It didn't stop him from being seen around Boston partying so I seriously doubt this alleged injury was anything but a future excuse if he needed it.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1781122
"BOSTON -- Forward Paul Pierce rested his sprained right ankle Monday night, sitting out against the Miami Heat one day after the Celtics backed into the playoffs."


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> "BOSTON -- Forward Paul Pierce rested his sprained right ankle Monday night, sitting out against the Miami Heat one day after the Celtics backed into the playoffs."


What are they going to say? The Celtics benched Paul Pierce in preperation to be demolished by the Pacers for the Playoffs. Pierce had a slight injury that he would have EASILY played with if it wasn't the end of the regular season with the Celtics in the playoffs. Don't buy into the media.


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> What are they going to say? The Celtics benched Paul Pierce in preperation to be demolished by the Pacers for the Playoffs. Pierce had a slight injury that he would have EASILY played with if it wasn't the end of the regular season with the Celtics in the playoffs. Don't buy into the media.


Believe me I am not nieve enough to buy into the media, especially the Boston media. But let me get this straight, the Celtics benched Pierce for no reason other than to rest him to play in a series they would lose regardless of his rest or not? Pierce had a bad series and I'm not going to make excuses for him but you can't tell me that he was 100%.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> 
> Believe me I am not nieve enough to buy into the media, especially the Boston media. But let me get this straight, the Celtics benched Pierce for no reason other than to rest him to play in a series they would lose regardless of his rest or not? Pierce had a bad series and I'm not going to make excuses for him but you can't tell me that he was 100%.


Pierce has been playing close to that the whole season. It wasn't just those few games.

And regardless of injury or not, he wouldn't have played more then a couple of minutes of the last two games of the season.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

and like I said. It didn't stop him from going out and partying in Boston so he couldn't have been that injured.

It was an excuse for what we all knew was about to come and you are using it as an excuse so it worked out pretty well.







> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1781122
> "BOSTON -- Forward Paul Pierce rested his sprained right ankle Monday night, sitting out against the Miami Heat one day after the Celtics backed into the playoffs."


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> and like I said. It didn't stop him from going out and partying in Boston so he couldn't have been that injured.
> 
> It was an excuse for what we all knew was about to come and you are using it as an excuse so it worked out pretty well.


I'm not using that as an excuse for anything. He had a bad series. Everyone knows that. You just posted that he was'nt hurt, and I disagreed. That's all.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

heres a question, if nash is not resigned or traded with finley. Who the hell will play point.

Delk cant run point all game long, they need walker, as assurance. They guy can back up all 5 positions with ease on the floor.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> heres a question, if nash is not resigned or traded with finley. Who the hell will play point.
> 
> Delk cant run point all game long, they need walker, as assurance. They guy can back up all 5 positions with ease on the floor.


You want Walker to be a full time PG on your team? If Nash and Finley are both gone, hey will look to acquire someone to play with Daniels.

-Petey


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Walker as PG? Please!*

Walker has great handles....for a forward. But he is too turnover prone to even be a backup PG. 

The way I see it, Mark Cuban has two options....Keep Antoine, and save himself about $27 million dollars on salary and luxury tax when he leaves after 2005 season, or trade him to upgrade his team.

I say Cuban goes for the latter. Money is no object to this guy, and I think he wants to win. Face it, it just isn't working. Who would you rather have, Jamison or Walker? If you're the Mavericks, the Celtics, or just about any team in the league, it's Jamison. Nash or no Nash, Walker is changing addresses.

His leadership is a major plus, and he might be a good fit for a young team, but I don't think Chicago is that team. 

Walker is perfect for a team in salary cap hell...the cap room is too huge to ignore. How about Walker to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas and Shandon Anderson? It helps Dallas with a real PF (they loved him there the first time around) and it solves some of Isiah's cap hell. Bad for the Celtics, though, having to face an angry Walker four times around.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> You want Walker to be a full time PG on your team? If Nash and Finley are both gone, hey will look to acquire someone to play with Daniels.
> ...


nah not full time. Im just saying without nash, they have only 1 full time point guard on their team and thats if u label delk a point guard.

So walker might come in handy playing point forward occasionally while their pg rests.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Walker as PG? Please!*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Walker has great handles....for a forward. But he is too turnover prone to even be a backup PG.
> 
> The way I see it, Mark Cuban has two options....Keep Antoine, and save himself about $27 million dollars on salary and luxury tax when he leaves after 2005 season, or trade him to upgrade his team.
> ...


Uh, Walker played full time PG here with the Celtics, and had less turnovers then Pierce while Pierce didn't even play PG.

There won't be a luxury tax next year.

And every team would rather trade for Walker then Jamison because of the contracts.


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: Re: Walker as PG? Please!*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> Uh, Walker played full time PG here with the Celtics, and had less turnovers then Pierce while Pierce didn't even play PG.
> ...


Just because he handled the ball alot didn't make him the PG. Antoine is not, has never, and never will be a point guard.

If I was a GM of a team w/ cap flexibility I would take Jamison over Walker because he is better.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Aquatious, wrong again*

First of all, you don't know there won't be a luxury tax. The Celtics certainly believe there will be, thus the haste in the Baker settlement. Secondly, my point stands. The Mavericks can either waste the money on Walker next year and get a nice cap boost by letting him walk, or trade him. I think my Thomas-Anderson/Walker deal is sort of what they can do to upgrade. 

Most teams would take Jamison because Jamison is so much better at the game of basketball it is not even funny. We'll see how hard Antoine works at his game....but I think whatever happens he'll get what he deserves in the end.

GO CELTICS!!!


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Aquatious, wrong again*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> Most teams would take Jamison because Jamison is so much better at the game of basketball it is not even funny. We'll see how hard Antoine works at his game.


The Easiest and Cheapest (Price not Quality) position to sign players is SF/SG in the NBA. PF and PG are too hard positions to fill effectively (The Celtics can't). I would rather have Antoine with a Good Coach that knows his X's and O's and doesn't Love Threes like Antoines previous three coaches. 



> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> Just because he handled the ball alot didn't make him the PG. Antoine is not, has never, and never will be a point guard.


The Celtics in the 01-02 Offseason toyed with Walker being a PG for like 2 months. Antoine is very capable of being a PG in offense. He would matchup with a PF on defense. Actually, being a PG doesn't necessarilly mean to play in that position. Antoine would be a PF that would handle passing at the top of the key and bringing the ball up the court. I'd like to see other PF's guard him when he is away from the post.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Aquatious, wrong again*

The only thing Jamison does better then Walker at basketball is scoring and the only other thing Jamison does is rebound off his own misses.
There is more to basketball then scoring. If scoring was all that mattered the MVP in basketball every year would be the leading scorer.


If Walker wasn't a PG then I would like to know who that guy was bringing the ball up the court and doing all the passing if he wasn't. He might not have been under PG but he certainly was the Celtics PG.

FYI The Celtics didn't pay a luxery tax this year and in the words of Jackie MacMullen "Got a bunch of money back this year that they better spend on free agents".


Dallas tried to trade both Walker and Jamison last year at the deadline and didn't like the deals they were being offered so I don't think Jamison is as valuable as some might think.








> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> First of all, you don't know there won't be a luxury tax. The Celtics certainly believe there will be, thus the haste in the Baker settlement. Secondly, my point stands. The Mavericks can either waste the money on Walker next year and get a nice cap boost by letting him walk, or trade him. I think my Thomas-Anderson/Walker deal is sort of what they can do to upgrade.
> 
> Most teams would take Jamison because Jamison is so much better at the game of basketball it is not even funny. We'll see how hard Antoine works at his game....but I think whatever happens he'll get what he deserves in the end.
> ...


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Walker as PG? Please!*



> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> 
> Just because he handled the ball alot didn't make him the PG. Antoine is not, has never, and never will be a point guard.


Stupid me, just because someone sets up the whole offense every time and brings the ball up the court, doesn't mean he's a PG.  



> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> If I was a GM of a team w/ cap flexibility I would take Jamison over Walker because he is better.


Stupid me again, I forgot that every team all of a sudden has a lot of cap flexibility.



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> First of all, you don't know there won't be a luxury tax. The Celtics certainly believe there will be, thus the haste in the Baker settlement.


The Celtics *believe* that there will be a luxury tax, while I *believe* with the rest of the league that there won't be a luxury tax.



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Secondly, my point stands. The Mavericks can either waste the money on Walker next year and get a nice cap boost by letting him walk, or trade him. I think my Thomas-Anderson/Walker deal is sort of what they can do to upgrade.
> 
> Most teams would take Jamison because Jamison is so much better at the game of basketball it is not even funny. We'll see how hard Antoine works at his game....but I think whatever happens he'll get what he deserves in the end.


If Jamison is so much better, why don't the Mavs trade him? Is it beacuse no one wants to take onto another big contract?



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> GO CELTICS!!!


Don't you mean "Go Paul"?


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

THERE WAS NO LUXERY TAX THIS YEAR FOR THE CELTICS
According to Jackie MacMullen last night on late nights sports on channell 7.
She said that the Celtics owners got a ton of money back this year.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> 
> 
> nah not full time. Im just saying without nash, they have only 1 full time point guard on their team and thats if u label delk a point guard.
> ...


They have Daniels too, and if they trade away both Nash and Finley there is a good chance they get a pg if not a big man.

They don't need Walker to back up the position, they acquired him as a luxury.

-Petey


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Walker as PG? Please!*



> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> 
> Just because he handled the ball alot didn't make him the PG. Antoine is not, has never, and never will be a point guard.
> ...


tony delk would bring the ball up sometimes, but he never ran the offense. 

Name one time u saw delk run the break. Walker pushed the ball up the court every time, to pierce and his other team mates. 

Walker ran offenses. And even when he wasnt playing point/forward, things were still run through him. so many times i'd see him make the most wonderfull passes from the post to cutting team mates who just couldnt finish.

The only time walker wasnt controling the offense was when pierce was being isolated. He wasnt labled as a full time point guard, but he did handle alot of the celtics ball handling duties.


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker as PG? Please!*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> Stupid me, just because someone sets up the whole offense every time and brings the ball up the court, doesn't mean he's a PG.


I understand that the offense went through Antoine, I'm not trying to argue with anyone about this. I'm just trying to say that he didn't play the point. The guys that played the point while Antoine here sucked for the most part expect for Kenny in 01-02 and thats the only reason the offense went through Antoine. A competent PG would have run the show at any time that he was here. But there was never a pg to do that.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker as PG? Please!*



> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> I understand that the offense went through Antoine, I'm not trying to argue with anyone about this. I'm just trying to say that he didn't play the point. The guys that played the point while Antoine here sucked for the most part expect for Kenny in 01-02 and thats the only reason the offense went through Antoine. A competent PG would have run the show at any time that he was here. But there was never a pg to do that.


Definiton of Point Guard: The player who usually brings the ball upcourt for his team and runs the offense 

Or you could try any other online dictionary. Unlike what the minority of basketball fans believe, a PG is not the shortest player on the team. A PG runs the offense. Who ran the offense while his stay with the Celtics? Who brought the ball upcourt the majority of the time? Antoine is a better PG than Kenny. Antoine is a Point Foward. He is blessed with great passing talents that compare with the Kings Front-Court (Miller, Divac, Webber) and Luke Walton (Very, very good passer). He also has great feet. It is a weak argument to say that if we had a better PG, Antoine wouldn't have still did what he normally does. What if? What if? What if?


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

Listen man, I'm not disagreeing with you. I know that the offense ran through Antoine while he was here. All I am trying to say is that Antoine is far from a true pg obviously, and if there was a better PG here he would not have been in control. I know what if what if. Also Tony Delk played point while he was here as well and that doesn't make him a PG.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Revisionist Historians*

Antoine is a phenomenal passer for the highlight reel, but he is not a better PG than Kenny Anderson, even the old Kenny Anderson you currently see. Look at Antoine's assists-to-turnovers. 

If Antoine was so good, how come he has the worst +/- on the Mavericks team, and how come rookies routinely played over him in the playoffs? If you can't play for Don Nelson, there's problems.

You can blame his coaches all you want. Next year, you'll be blaming some other coach for his troubles. 

Cap flexibility or no, every sane GM would take Jamison because he is athletic, and a better shooter. 

I'm glad the Celtics got Jiri and Raef, and I look forward to the draft. I'm not looking backward, especially at "veteran All-Stars."

The Celtics didn't play a luxury tax. But other teams have. Last year, teams paid. So the Baker settlement made a lot of sense. I realize you guys are the experts, so I'll keep my mouth shut on the issue until the end of next season. But if there is a luxury tax, we won't be paying it!


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker as PG? Please!*



> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> 
> A competent PG would have run the show at any time that he was here. But there was never a pg to do that.


Then who did?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Antoine is a phenomenal passer for the highlight reel, but he is not a better PG than Kenny Anderson, even the old Kenny Anderson you currently see. Look at Antoine's assists-to-turnovers.


Kenny's the 3rd PG on the Pacers who don't have that good point guards.

Yes, but sadly stats, especially assists-to-turnovers don't tell how players are.



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> If Antoine was so good, how come he has the worst +/- on the Mavericks team, and how come rookies routinely played over him in the playoffs? If you can't play for Don Nelson, there's problems.


This was NEVER the point, the point was that Antoine was the PG here.



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Cap flexibility or no, every sane GM would take Jamison because he is athletic, and a better shooter.


Yes, every idiot would like to pay 50+ million for a player then 14 and let him go, especially the young teams that are rebuilding and teams that want to get rid of bad contracts.



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I'm glad the Celtics got Jiri and Raef, and I look forward to the draft. I'm not looking backward, especially at "veteran All-Stars."


Yeah me too, I'm happy we'll be paying Raef's 70 million contract, and a complete year for sitting on the bench in street clothes. Who'd want any "All-Stars" they are overrated anyhow. 

Someone call McHale and ask for a Walter McCarty and Reaf for KG deal. *Oh wait is that Danny picking up the phone? No it's Rivers.*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> The Celtics didn't play a luxury tax. But other teams have. Last year, teams paid. So the Baker settlement made a lot of sense. I realize you guys are the experts, so I'll keep my mouth shut on the issue until the end of next season. But if there is a luxury tax, we won't be paying it!


We wouldn't be paying it anyhow, not only paying the luxury tax, but not paying for a 6 year contract.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Raef and his contract*

Yes, we are paying Raef a large amount of money, almost as obscene as Walker's contract. 

But if he's healthy next year, let's see what he does. I'll put him against Walker. 

I don't know if Antoine will be playing for the Clippers, the Bulls or the Knicks next year, or if he'll be in Dallas. But I think Raef will hold up well against him statistically, and overall. And we also got Jiri and maybe a future stud HS player.

And no, the Kenny of 3 seasons ago was our PG. Antoine got us into the offense, but Kenny brought the ball up. Anyway, what does it matter...we are where we are, and Dallas is where they are, and what Antoine did two years ago is moot.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Raef and his contract*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Yes, we are paying Raef a large amount of money, almost as obscene as Walker's contract.
> 
> But if he's healthy next year, let's see what he does. I'll put him against Walker.
> ...



Raef will never be anywhere near the player Antoine is/was. Let's be at least honest with ourselves here. I don't object to making moves to help your team get better, but this certainly was not one of them.

Ainge got taken to the cleaners on that deal. 

Your argument here, although I do share a lot of the same sentiments generally as you do, is ludicrous. Raef is nothing more than a BWS and he will probably for the rest of his career not avg. more than 10ppg


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Pat, it's about more than PPG*

It is about team chemistry, it is about flow, it is about defense. 

If Raef can average between 9-12 ppg, shooting 46-52%, shooting between 37-42% from 3pt range, shooting 69-75% from the foul line, blocking shots, playing defense, and stretching the defense, then he can contribute more than a guy who will demand more shots, play less defense, shoot abysmally from the field, the line and the arc, and pout and destroy team chemistry.

Even hurt, Raef showed that he could contribute in November.

BWS? That's an insult. Is Mark Madsen a BWS? He plays for nearly the minimum, but helps his team win. I suppose you think Brad Miller is a BWS, too. He makes tons less than Antoine, but is five times the player. 

Let's bring a little intelligence to this conversation. Terms like BWS are so a)racist and b)juvenile.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Raef and his contract*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Yes, we are paying Raef a large amount of money, almost as obscene as Walker's contract.


Raef has about 52.525 Million over 5 years left on his contract (11.81375 Million Player Option that Raef would be dumb not to accept). Raef earned 8.17875 Million this year for sitting in street clothes. I wish I could earn millions for sitting around. Antoine has about 14.625 left on his contract that *expires after next season*. Antoine's contract is very valuable. You can't compare those two respective contracts and it is ludacris to say Antoine's contract is more obscene than Raef's.



> But if he's healthy next year, let's see what he does. I'll put him against Walker. But I think Raef will hold up well against him statistically, and overall.


Are you kidding me? To say Raef even compares to Antoine basketball wise will warrant a trip to mental diesease facilitys. Ask anybody besides Celtics and Mavs fans (to decrease biased opinions) and they will tell you the majority of the time Antoine is a superior player. 



> And no, the Kenny of 3 seasons ago was our PG. Antoine got us into the offense, but Kenny brought the ball up.


Is that an oxymoron or are you arguing with yourself? Creating a offense is far more important than bringing the ball up the court for Point guard. Anyone could bring a ball up the court. That is a soft argument.



> It is about team chemistry, it is about flow, it is about defense.


Exactly. 



> If Raef can average between 9-12 ppg, shooting 46-52%, shooting between 37-42% from 3pt range, shooting 69-75% from the foul line, blocking shots, playing defense, and stretching the defense, then he can contribute more than a guy who will demand more shots, play less defense, shoot abysmally from the field, the line and the arc, and pout and destroy team chemistry.


I find this whole paragraph to be funny. It's funny how incredibly biased the Boston fan base could be. We love players while they are here but, when they are gone, they immediatly suck. If you ask me, I find that a tad unitelligent. Antoine creates team chemisty. He doens't destory it. Antoine is a great motivator and mentor. He plays with passion and desire and he deserves to atleast be recognized by his former teams fans as the player he is. You obviously don't like him but, would it hurt you to respect him for all he's done to the organazation?

From you saying Raef plays better defense than Antoine makes the whole entire paragraph invalid. Raef is below average for defending at his position. He cannot defend the post with consistancy. Antoine is an above-average defender. 



> Let's bring a little intelligence to this conversation.


:| :dead:


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Antoine creates chemistry?*

Well, according to Ainge, and others, Antoine's personality is too dominant. Antoine Walker IS NO LONGER A CELTIC, SO GET OVER IT!!! AND PRETTY SOON HE WILL NO LONGER BE A MAVERICK!!! 

Read below, from ESPN.com:

"What we do know is that, next to Mavericks coach Don Nelson, no one on this team seems to have less of a future in Big D than the guy now known as Walk. He has just one season left on his contract, which makes him a trade asset even with a salary of nearly $14 million, and the widely held assumption is that Walk will be the first player Mark Cuban moves out after deciding Nellie's fate.


That's because Walker, at his Mavericks best, spent too much time on the perimeter hoisting threes, and standing instead cutting after passes, all of which meant Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash didn't have enough of the ball. Walker has since fallen out of favor to the point that he had to agree to play the five spot -- with 10 games to go in the regular season -- if he wanted to play at all."


GIVE ME RAEF LaFRENTZ and JIRI WELSCH ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!!!!

If John Wooden comes out of retirement and starts coaching Antoine and Antoine doesn't change, you'll blame the coach. Face it, Antoine fell in love with the 3-point shot and destroyed what could have been a perennial All-Star career. 

Antoine is going to be a Knick next year, so at least you guys can see him 4 times next year!


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Raef and his contract*

Thanks, Celts11! You said everything I wanted to say about this issue!


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm sorry, but I couldn't read further after a stupid comment like Raef is better then Walker. And Reaf's contract is almost as bad as Walker's.

That's just stupid.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Antoine creates chemistry?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> Well, according to Ainge, and others, Antoine's personality is too dominant.


You still believe every word that comes from Ainge's mouth. :sigh: You still don't realize that Danny promises more improvments than Clinton. 



> Antoine Walker IS NO LONGER A CELTIC, SO GET OVER IT!!!


I just can't stand it when someone doesn't show a player respect just because he is formerly with the team. It happens with every former Celtic. Also, I don't see how someone could like a player just because they are on their favorite team. 



> "What we do know is that, next to Mavericks coach Don Nelson, no one on this team seems to have less of a future in Big D than the guy now known as Walk. He has just one season left on his contract, which makes him a trade asset even with a salary of nearly $14 million, and the widely held assumption is that Walk will be the first player Mark Cuban moves out after deciding Nellie's fate.


Steve Nash has a player option next year that if he accepts, will raise the Dallas payroll to over 84 Million. Antoine's valuable expiring contract can be traded by Dallas to lower their next years payroll to under 70 Million. They want to resign Nash to more years. 



> That's because Walker, at his Mavericks best, spent too much time on the perimeter hoisting threes, and standing instead cutting after passes, all of which meant Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash didn't have enough of the ball. Walker has since fallen out of favor to the point that he had to agree to play the five spot -- with 10 games to go in the regular season -- if he wanted to play at all."


I find it hypocritical to be a fan of a player while on one team but, when that player has a new team, he is treated with the absolute hatred and mistreatment that Boston-Area fans direct toward Yankee fans (sorry Rich). Antoine should get the respect he deserves for his hard years with a rebuilding team.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

Celts11,
He isn't a Celtics fan. I think that should be obvious by now. He has always hated Antoine for taking any credit from his beloved truth34 and now that this town know's Pierce was overrated all heck will break lose.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: Antoine creates chemistry?*



> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> I find it hypocritical to be a fan of a player while on one team but, when that player has a new team, he is treated with the absolute hatred and mistreatment that Boston-Area fans direct toward Yankee fans (sorry Rich). Antoine should get the respect he deserves for his hard years with a rebuilding team.


What did he say that is completely false? It's one thing to respect a player regardless of the name on his shirt, it's another to continually hang off his nuts and hold him on a pedestal while simultaneously bashing every member of the current roster (I'm not talking about you celts11). Perusing this board for 5 minutes would lead most to believe Walker is some sort of martyr. Ainge pulled the trigger on a deal that, as time goes by, seems to be less and less incorrect. We'll have to wait and see what Raef does in the subsequent years with a (fingers-crossed) healthy knee, but even some Dallas fans have gone as far to say they'd trade Walker for Welsch straight up. Regardless of your opinion on the trade, it wasn't THAT bad of a fleece, like many would like to believe.

Boston's got a hell of a lot of work to do, but does anybody (besides lastlaugh/thereisnoIinteam/24-7) really think this team would be significantly better off if the Walker deal hadn't happened?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

To tell you the truth, I really had no opinion on Walker. I never disliked Antoine but, I never loved Antoine and his abilities. But, I do indeed respect him for giving his all during his stay with the Celtics. I would always remember Antoine for his motivation, heart, and desire. He was the one who got up in Pierce's face in the 4th Quarter of Game 3 vs. New Jersey in the ECF (2001-02). It just dissapoints me to see Celtic fans just underrate Antoine and what he has done for this over-achieving team.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

KansasCityChiefsfan is not a Celtics fan. You are trying to discuss something with someone who's sole purpose of being at this board is to prop up Paul by ridiculing and making up lies about every other player on the team. Past or present who ever got any kind of credit. 

"Proof is his comment about "this trade looking better and better by the day"
We all know this is false. That is just BS

He is a troll. Read his past posts for proof.




> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> To tell you the truth, I really had no opinion on Walker. I never disliked Antoine but, I never loved Antoine and his abilities. But, I do indeed respect him for giving his all during his stay with the Celtics. I would always remember Antoine for his motivation, heart, and desire. He was the one who got up in Pierce's face in the 4th Quarter of Game 3 vs. New Jersey in the ECF (2001-02). It just dissapoints me to see Celtic fans just underrate Antoine and what he has done for this over-achieving team.


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## h180ys (Nov 10, 2003)

Has it become the forum where people start bashing each other? We are here to speak our opinions.


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: Re: Antoine creates chemistry?*



> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> I find it hypocritical to be a fan of a player while on one team but, when that player has a new team, he is treated with the absolute hatred and mistreatment that Boston-Area fans direct toward Yankee fans (sorry Rich). Antoine should get the respect he deserves for his hard years with a rebuilding team.


I think in general Antoine gets alot of respect around here for what he did while he was with the Celtics. No one that I know has any problem with what Toine did here, I know a lot of people that didn't like him early on back in the Pitino era but the last couple of years peoples opinions changed. He got a standing ovation in his return and after he fouled out of his would be last game as a celtic last year.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Antoine creates chemistry?*

Here is the pathetic thing. It took Antoine leaving town and this team falling apart at the hands of Paul Pierce before most people started to appreciate what Antoine brought to this team.


The Celtics have become such a disgrace that the best Ryan Ruscillo and his croonies can come up with to talk about on their radio show is bashing Antoine. They don't even mention Paul and the junk he pulled this year (Like harassing Jiri to his boiling point that he went to Ainge to complain about Pierce or Pierce refusing to come into a huddle during a playoff game.)

Half the Celtics team right now cannot stand Paul Pierce and things were left that way when each left town.






> Originally posted by <b>lempbizkit</b>!
> 
> 
> I think in general Antoine gets alot of respect around here for what he did while he was with the Celtics. No one that I know has any problem with what Toine did here, I know a lot of people that didn't like him early on back in the Pitino era but the last couple of years peoples opinions changed. He got a standing ovation in his return and after he fouled out of his would be last game as a celtic last year.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> KansasCityChiefsfan is not a Celtics fan. You are trying to discuss something with someone who's sole purpose of being at this board is to prop up Paul by ridiculing and making up lies about every other player on the team. Past or present who ever got any kind of credit.
> 
> "Proof is his comment about "this trade looking better and better by the day"
> ...


I think essentially everyone in here is aware of who I am and what my priorities are, as I'm sure everyone's WELL aware of your agenda by now as well.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Antoine creates chemistry?*



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> Here is the pathetic thing. It took Antoine leaving town and this team falling apart at the hands of Paul Pierce before most people started to appreciate what Antoine brought to this team.
> 
> 
> ...


You're right, the Celtics would've been much better off if Pierce were traded as opposed to Walker.......


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*From a Florida newspaper*

Discussing a possible Walker to ORL for Grant Hill and a #1 trade...

"The Magic must come out of the draft, the free-agent period and the summer trading session with either a point guard or a physical interior player. Walker, of course, is neither. Boston couldn't unload him fast enough and he was predominately a flop in Dallas this season. Walker, whose shot selection has always been a major issue, hit a mediocre 42.8 percent from the floor and was a dreadful 26.9 percent from 3-point range and 55.4 percent from the free-throw line."

I guess some people don't consider Walker a PG. I guess they don't consider him that great, either.

But forget what the media or the coaches think. I want to hear what the fans think.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: From a Florida newspaper*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Discussing a possible Walker to ORL for Grant Hill and a #1 trade...
> 
> "The Magic must come out of the draft, the free-agent period and the summer trading session with either a point guard or a physical interior player. Walker, of course, is neither. Boston couldn't unload him fast enough and he was predominately a flop in Dallas this season. Walker, whose shot selection has always been a major issue, hit a mediocre 42.8 percent from the floor and was a dreadful 26.9 percent from 3-point range and 55.4 percent from the free-throw line."
> ...


Once again you prove that you don't read anything on here, and make up your own little conclusions.

No one said that Walker is a PG, but he did play PG in Boston.

And when people say he's done a lot of things for Boston, we don't mean he's Shaq or Tim Duncan. 

I can't make it any more simpler to you then that.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Aqua, I think you are right*

Antoine did a lot of things for us here in Boston. 

He was a centerpiece of the team that won 48 games and went to the Eastern Conference Finals.

He is a great person.

I just share the opinion of a lot of basketball people that he can be a difficult guy to have on your team.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Aqua, I think you are right*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> I just share the opinion of a lot of basketball people that he can be a difficult guy to have on your team.


He can, but so can a lot of people. Remember Sheed? Who wanted him and his act? Wells? Ricky Davis? They all have a screw lose in their heads, and Antoine has his with his stupid 3s.

Whenever Antoine put up a 3, the fans in Boston hoped that it would go in, and prayed that he would go inside. Every player has a fault, and not one of them is perfect, but some people just don't want to give him any credit and love to blame him.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Aqua, I think you are right*

Funny how we never heard about this difficult to have on your team Antoine till Danny Ainge came to town. Come to think of it Danny Ainge wasn't in this town for more then 3 weeks with Antoine also in this town but yet he seems to have so much in the know about what went on when he wasn't here.

I wish I had Antoine skill level. I mean the guy is pure evil and yet he manages to still stay friends with his old teammates (having dinner with them, having party's for them when he came back to Boston, having a party with one of them when they were at the All Star game etc...)considering he was so hated by everyone when he was here.
What powers he must have  



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> I just share the opinion of a lot of basketball people that he can be a difficult guy to have on your team.


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