# The 2007 Offseason Thread



## JuX

I just made a new thread special during the off-season. Whatever is happening here, we can discuss about that.

Seattle and Indiana booted Hill and Carlisle, respectively. Why can't we do the same thing:sad: to Wittman, too?  My patience is running thin on this team I dearly love.


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## Ruff Draft

Carlisle. PLEASE!


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## Avalanche

So anyone think they know what we'll be targetting over the off-season?

i like to see us go for jason richardson, hes been playing a lot at the 3 when hes getting minutes but it doesnt look like GS needs him in the long term plan there as talented as he is.
brings a lot of energy and is a great scorer, paired with Garnett he might step up andbecome a legit second option.

we need a center still, cant believe we didnt pull the trigger on nazr, i think that the best guy to go after here would be etan thomas, he and haywood will never get along and he might come cheap


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## The King of the World

XMATTHEWX said:


> Carlisle. PLEASE!


He's a very good coach, but I don't know if I could handle watching the brutally slow offense...we're a pretty boring team to watch as it is.


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## Mateo

lol, an offseason thread? We all know the Wolves don't do anything in the offseason except draft. Expect the same sad lineup on November 1st.


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## The King of the World

Avalanche said:


> So anyone think they know what we'll be targetting over the off-season?
> 
> i like to see us go for jason richardson, hes been playing a lot at the 3 when hes getting minutes but it doesnt look like GS needs him in the long term plan there as talented as he is.
> brings a lot of energy and is a great scorer, paired with Garnett he might step up andbecome a legit second option.
> 
> we need a center still, cant believe we didnt pull the trigger on nazr, i think that the best guy to go after here would be etan thomas, he and haywood will never get along and he might come cheap


Richardson would be great, but I really don't know what we could offer Golden State that would address any of their needs. I think that any major trade that we make this summer is going to have to include a third (or fourth) team, which will make it that much tougher to get done.


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## Avalanche

The King of the World said:


> Richardson would be great, but I really don't know what we could offer Golden State that would address any of their needs. I think that any major trade that we make this summer is going to have to include a third (or fourth) team, which will make it that much tougher to get done.


Our best chance at a STAR player would be say, Ricky, the 1st rounder and filler.
outside of that, as per usual there isnt a whole lot that we can offer other teams, mccants and foye both have value but i dont want to trade either of them.


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## JuX

Mateo said:


> lol, an offseason thread? We all know the Wolves don't do anything in the offseason except draft. Expect the same sad lineup on November 1st.


Well, for your information, we had a quiet off season last summer but yet we were producing posts pretty well. According to the date you registered, you weren't here that time.


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## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Well, for your information, we had a quiet off season last summer but yet we were producing posts pretty well. According to the date you registered, you weren't here that time.


spending all our time dreaming up scenarios and improving the team..... then coming to realise mchale wont actually get any of it done....


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## JuX

We can dream, can't we?


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## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> We can dream, can't we?


lol course we can, dont have much else at the moment


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## socco

Avalanche said:


> spending all our time dreaming up scenarios and improving the team..... then coming to realise mchale wont actually get any of it done....


The story of my life...


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## Avalanche

socco said:


> The story of my life...


i tend to look like this a lot of the time... :mad2:


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## Ruff Draft

Telfair?


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## JuX

I don't know.

We had the problems in Eddie Griffin. We thought having him over here will make him stay away from his troubles but it turned out he was still doing the multi-tasking thing and had violated the NBA rules several times.


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## Ruff Draft

Nuggets, Magic And Wolves Interested In Telfair?


> New York Daily News -
> Denver, Orlando and Minnesota are already being mentioned as possible new landing spots for Sebastian Telfair.
> 
> "I would think that the Celtics will try to get something for him," one Eastern Conference executive said Wednesday. "Once things settle down, I could see them looking to put him in a trade, being a guy who's included in a deal to make the numbers work. But somebody will take a shot on him. He's young and he made a mistake."


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## Avalanche

XMATTHEWX said:


> Nuggets, Magic And Wolves Interested In Telfair?


If we can move James and Jaric and dont get a guard in return then sure, he can split minutes backing up Foye.
Personally i've always liked his potential, and think theres still a solid player there somewhere.
If mike james and something could get us childress, and then jaric and a second rounder could land us etan thomas:

Foye/Hudson/Telfair
Davis/Mccants
Childress/Hassel
Garnett/Smith
Blount/Thomas

Thats before the draft, where obviously we pray for a top 2 but really with that line up e could draft solely based on talent because we are at least 2 deep at every position.
if we cant move james and jaric telfair would just get tangled in our logjam of guards and do nothing really.


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## socco

For a team that is looking to improve chemistry I can't see us bringing in Telfair.


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## Avalanche

socco said:


> For a team that is looking to improve chemistry I can't see us bringing in Telfair.


he has great passing skills, which is something none of our guards really have, they are ok passers but nothing outstanding.
the problem is i think telfair needs a very strict, veteran coach to really develop into the PG he can be, and unfortunately we have wittman


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## JuX

Avalanche said:


> he has great passing skills, which is something none of our guards really have, they are ok passers but nothing outstanding.
> *the problem is i think telfair needs a very strict, veteran coach to really develop into the PG he can be, and unfortunately we have wittman*


Yep, that's why I didn't think it's a good idea.


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## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Yep, that's why I didn't think it's a good idea.


great minds think alike huh lol


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## JuX

I wish Wittman have the decency & respect to resign from his head coaching duties for the better for this franchise. Sam Mitchell may not have his another chance to coach for the Raps, I would love him to come back here and coach us. It may not happen but that's only my wish.


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## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> I wish Wittman have the decency & respect to resign from his head coaching duties for the better for this franchise. Sam Mitchell may not have his another chance to coach for the Raps, I would love him to come back here and coach us. It may not happen but that's only my wish.


there are a lot of veteran coaches available this off-season now, i cant see why the wolves cant get one and simply move wittman back to assistant, we went far downhill once he took over


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## JuX

Former Timberwolf Maurice Evans dreams of having KG to come over and playing for the Lakers.



> Here's the background info: Lakers forward Maurice Evans calls Kevin Garnett "one of my best friends in the league." Here's the news: "I know he definitely wants out of that situation, deservedly so," Evans said Thursday.
> 
> "He's given his heart and soul to that (Minnesota) organization," Evans added. "And whether it be here or Minnesota or wherever, I hope for and wish him the best in his future."


More to read at http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/abox/article_1680362.php


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## Amareca

Too bad the Lakers don't really have the pieces to trade for Garnett unless they trade Kobe. On the other hand McHale might be stupid enough to trade Garnett for Bynum and Odom when I am sure there are 2 dozen teams willing to offer a better package than beat up borderline career-underachiever allstar forward and an unproved 19 year old who was a disapointment this season.


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## Avalanche

Amareca said:


> Too bad the Lakers don't really have the pieces to trade for Garnett unless they trade Kobe. On the other hand McHale might be stupid enough to trade Garnett for Bynum and Odom when I am sure there are 2 dozen teams willing to offer a better package than beat up borderline career-underachiever allstar forward and an unproved 19 year old who was a disapointment this season.


the only chance the lakers would have would be bynum, kwame farmar and maybe a pick.... unfortunately to make the trade work they need to put odom in the deal for salary.... in which case they gut their team and leave it with KG, kobe and Dleague'rs.

personally i think the bulls blew a chance now they dont have browns expiring.

boston is probably the best fit but i still dont see garnett going anywhere... as much as the rumours will continue


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## Avalanche

cant find the link but Haywood has asked Wizards management for a trade this off-season.
he would be a bit more difficult to get than thomas i think but maybe give up hassel to get haywood?
love to get him here, the guy is huge and would help us a lot


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## Avalanche

Also do you guys think it would take much more than Ricky's expiring to get Ron Artest, i know hes insane but we're rather despirate


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## JuX

I honestly don't see KG going anywhere this summer.


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## Mateo

Avalanche said:


> Also do you guys think it would take much more than Ricky's expiring to get Ron Artest, i know hes insane but we're rather despirate


Not sure. I think they'd love to get rid of Artest, but at the same time Ricky doesn't have a glowing reputation either. It would be nice to get Artest though.


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## Avalanche

Couple of trade proposals ive seen around the place just for interests sake:

Ricky/Blount for Dampier/Terry

Ricky/James for Cassel/Maggette

Ricky to Seattle (assuming lewis leaves), Wilcox to the bulls, nocioni to Minny

Personally id take any of the above, change of scenery at very least...
thoughts? changes? favourite?


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## Ruff Draft

Avalanche said:


> Couple of trade proposals ive seen around the place just for interests sake:
> 
> Ricky/Blount for Dampier/Terry
> 
> Ricky/James for Cassel/Maggette
> 
> Ricky to Seattle (assuming lewis leaves), Wilcox to the bulls, nocioni to Minny
> 
> Personally id take any of the above, change of scenery at very least...
> thoughts? changes? favourite?


I like the 2nd one, and the first one only if James is traded.


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## Avalanche

XMATTHEWX said:


> I like the 2nd one, and the first one only if James is traded.


James could probably net a small amount of value elsewhere with clubs struggling to find a point guard at all let alone a good back up such as atlanta, cleveland etc

i do agree though i like the second one, then if we could somehow pull etan thomas for jaric/2nd rounder:

Foye/Cassel
Hassel/Mccants
Maggette/Jeff Green?
KG/Smith
Blount/Thomas

still some holes, but a MLE and its at least a bit more balanced we would need a shooter though (kapono?)


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## Avalanche

speaking of kapono, who do you guys think we should be chasing with the MLE?


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## Mateo

Not the full MLE... poor man's Wally.


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## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> Not the full MLE... poor man's Wally.


nah i didnt mean that, i just meant 'speaking of free agents.....' type thing.

Matt Barnes?


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## JuX

Avalanche said:


> nah i didnt mean that, i just meant 'speaking of free agents.....' type thing.
> 
> *Matt Barnes?*


Not so sure about him. He had a very good year this season, but we will never know if he will play like that way. He might be gone back to his old self again, we'll never know. It's a risky move.


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## Avalanche

are there any decent centers in free agency this year?


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## JuX

> The Knicks will be at the center of the rumor maelstrom at the predraft camp in Orlando later this month. I continue to hear that they're committed to making a serious run at trading for Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol. But the organization sees it as more due diligence than reality. In the end, they probably won't have enough to land any of the above ... In the likely event that the Knicks won't be able to trade Steve Francis, they are dead set against buying out his contract. Isiah Thomas' philosophy has been consistent on buyouts: If a player can give him anything, he keeps him. And the Knicks believe Francis still has something left.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/print...20may20,0,1001550.column?coll=ny-sports-print


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## JuX

> If Garnett, who turned 31 Saturday, is the best possible trade option, Gerald Wallace is the best possible free-agent fit. Wallace, coming off a good season in Charlotte, is a marvelous athlete who runs the court well. He's a sprinting, leaping, shooting double-double.
> 
> Wallace, who turns 24 in July, is what coaches call an "energy guy," except with the gift of talent.
> 
> Marion, the superb Phoenix All-Star, might be described the same way.
> 
> Obtaining either Garnett or Wallace would require considerable roster agitation to avoid the luxury tax. Anything less than these two leaves the Warriors turning up their collective nose at the likes of Darko Milicic or Mikki Moore.


From Oakland Tribune: http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_5942407


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## Avalanche

nice finds jux

i dont think the knicks have enough to get garnett, Lee/Frye would be the starting piece for a trade from NY but i think they would realise they have a much better shot a JO or Gasol who would come a bit cheaper then Garnett.
i wouldnt do any deal with NY that didnt start with Curry and they wont give him up, i cant see KG landing in New York, id preffer to try and get Marbury here somehow to be honest.

Golden State is an interesting option, they have a lot of young talent but im not sure what on the roster would need to be included to actually make the deal work, a Baron/Garnett combo would be awesome though.

i just dont think theres going to be a deal out there that both sides benefit enough from, either a team is going to have to move half the roster to makeup contracts and give up enough value, putting KG in almost the same situation, or they wont offer enough to make it worth Minnys time.


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## socco

Avalanche said:


> Ricky/Blount for Dampier/Terry


Would Dallas actually do that?



Avalanche said:


> Ricky/James for Cassel/Maggette


I like it, but I can't imagine Cassell coming back here.



Avalanche said:


> Ricky to Seattle (assuming lewis leaves), Wilcox to the bulls, nocioni to Minny


I'd rather have Ricky than Nocioni.



Avalanche said:


> Matt Barnes?


I don't think he'd be nearly as successful here than he was in the Warriors' system. And I gotta imagine he'll get some decent money with the way he played in the playoffs. Just not a good fit imo. I'd rather go after Mickael Pietrus, though I'm not sure he'd be the greatest fit here either.


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## Avalanche

socco said:


> Would Dallas actually do that?


not sure, it got discussed on another board and the Dallas fans actually liked it, i think they like the idea of having an offensive center to pair with Diop, we could definately use Dampier inside and Terrys shooting though



> I like it, but I can't imagine Cassell coming back here.


im not really sure what terms he left on, he had success with KG and he could look on that favourably, LAC needs a change, this while nothing huge gives them consistant guys who provide scoring



> I'd rather have Ricky than Nocioni.


i like ricky more, but i think if mccants/foye can develop their offense next season our glaring hole is still at SF, where Noc fills in, plays hard and helps out with rebounds



> I don't think he'd be nearly as successful here than he was in the Warriors' system. And I gotta imagine he'll get some decent money with the way he played in the playoffs. Just not a good fit imo. I'd rather go after Mickael Pietrus, though I'm not sure he'd be the greatest fit here either.


i dont think hed do aswell in this system either to be honest, just throwin an idea out there... who would u look at with the MLE?


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## Avalanche

> The Minnesota Timberwolves, who will consider buying a first-round pick for June's NBA draft, probably could get the Phoenix Suns' pick, which will be late, for about $3 million.
> 
> The Timberwolves also will try hard to trade Ricky Davis and Trenton Hassell when the playoffs end.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/...-draft-pick-trade-Davis-and-Has?urn=nba,31483


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## Avalanche

> There has been some talk that the team that drafts Oden will be told he wants to play with point guard Mike Conley Jr., his lifelong friend and floor leader. And I believe it. It's hardly unusual; Kobe Bryant dictated his way to Los Angeles out of the draft. Conley's dad is representing his son and Oden, and Conley the player is no slouch. In fact, many teams rate him the draft's best point guard. The two most difficult positions to fill are center and point guard. With those, you can begin building a team.





> f the Timberwolves happen to jump from No. 7 in the preliminary odds to No. 1, I believe they finally would deal Kevin Garnett to put in place an Oden/Conley building project, something to get excited about. Plus, Oden needs someone like Conley. Despite Oden's high skill level, he's a more passive personality, whereas Conley is a born leader. The pairing would provide Oden the comfort zone he needs to ease his transition.


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...mith,1,3557632.column?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


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## socco

Avalanche said:


> not sure, it got discussed on another board and the Dallas fans actually liked it, i think they like the idea of having an offensive center to pair with Diop, we could definately use Dampier inside and Terrys shooting though


Talent wise I like the deal, leaves us pretty thin at SG/SF, where we already were thin. If Dallas was open for a deal like that I think we'd have to jump on it.



Avalanche said:


> im not really sure what terms he left on, he had success with KG and he could look on that favourably, LAC needs a change, this while nothing huge gives them consistant guys who provide scoring


Taylor blamed our bad 05-06 season on him and Spree, and I think that got him pretty upset. I'd definitely be in favor of this trade if they could put their differences behind them. I like Maggette more than Ricky and Sammy more than James.



Avalanche said:


> i like ricky more, but i think if mccants/foye can develop their offense next season our glaring hole is still at SF, where Noc fills in, plays hard and helps out with rebounds


I don't have much faith that those guys will do that, but if it does happen I can see why this would be a good trade for us.



Avalanche said:


> who would u look at with the MLE?


Don't know. There aren't many big names that pop out and get my attention.


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## Avalanche

POINT GUARDS

*
* (PO) Billups (DET) - PG – 31 
* (R) Williams (MIL) – PG – 24
* Blake (DEN) – PG - 27
* (PO) Boykins (MIL) – PG – 31
* (R) Bell (MIL) – G – 28
* Atkins (MEM) – PG – 33
* Parker (LAL) – PG – 26
* Hart (LAC) – PG - 29
* Dooling (ORL) - PG - 27
* Payton (MIA) - PG - 39


SHOOTING GUARDS

*
* (PO) Carter (NJ) – SG – 30 
* Stackhouse (DAL) – SG – 32 
* Mason (NO) – SG – 30
* Kapono (MIA) – SG – 26
* (PO) Finley (SA) – SG - 34 
* (PO) Wells (HOU) – SG – 31
* Carroll (CHA) – SG – 27
* (PO) Stevenson (WAS) – SG – 26
* E. Jones (MIA) – SG - 36
* Murray (DET) - SG – 28


SMALL FORWARDS

*
* (PO) Lewis (SEA) – SF – 28
* (PO) Wallace (CHA) – SF – 25 
* (R) Nocioni (CHI) – SF – 27 
* Hill (ORL) – SF – 35
* Peterson (TOR) – SF – 30
* Barnes (GS) – SF – 27 
* (R) Pietrus (GS) – SF – 25
* (PO) George (DAL) – SF – 30
* (R) J Hayes (WAS) – SF - 26
* (R) Outlaw (POR) – SF – 23
* Walton (LAL) – SF – 27
* Patterson (MIL) – SF – 32
* Ju Jones (PHX) – SF - 28
* (R) C Hayes (HOU) – SF - 24
* Udoka (POR) – SF – 30
* Posey (MIA) – SF – 30


POWER FORWARDS

*
* (R) Milicic (ORL) – PF – 22
* Webber (DET) – PF – 34 
* (R) Varejao (CLE) – PF – 25
* Brown (CHI) – PF/C – 38
* Williamson (SAC) – PF/SF - 33
* Croshere (DAL) – PF – 32
* Smith (PHI) – PF/C - 32
* (PO) Oberto (SA) - PF- 32
* Bonner (SA) - PF - 27
* (R) Powell (GS) - PF - 23

CENTERS

*
* Moore (NJ) – C – 31
* Mutombo (HOU) – C - 41
* Magloire (POR) – C – 29
* Mihm (LAL) – C – 28
* DDavis (DET) – C/PF – 38
* Jackson (NO) – C – 32
* (R) Blatche (WAS) - C - 21
* (R) Roberts (MEM) - C/PF - 25
* Jackson (NO) - C - 32
* (PO) Skinner (MIL) - C - 31


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## JuX

Not so impressive list of free agent centers this offseason. I think we'll better stick to Blount. Jamaal Magliore had a rough season in Portland, so I don't know he'll be able to recover from this.


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## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Not so impressive list of free agent centers this offseason. I think we'll better stick to Blount. Jamaal Magliore had a rough season in Portland, so I don't know he'll be able to recover from this.


yeah the centers are very poor this year, Magloire would be the only one worth really looking at and could help a bit IF he can rebound from last season.
more likely going to take a trade to get a big man here, maybe look at some of the SF's this year could be of use.


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## JuX

Avalanche said:


> yeah the centers are very poor this year, Magloire would be the only one worth really looking at and could help a bit IF he can rebound from last season.
> more likely going to take a trade to get a big man here, maybe look at some of the SF's this year could be of use.


Any names that intrigued you?


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## Avalanche

Mo P could be of use i think, add a bit of defense and some shooting.
Barnes and Kapono could help with outside shooting aswell.

Patterson could come on the cheap for tough D.

Depends on what we draft, if we land a SF then we could try and get Steve Blake.

theres nothing outstanding but we could definately fill some holes in the line up, then move James/Jaric for a big, possibly from Washington


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## JuX

Ugh, I'm not big on Blake. I never did and never will, I will not know why and will not care to know why.


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## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Ugh, I'm not big on Blake. I never did and never will, I will not know why and will not care to know why.


i dont really like him personally, just from the point guard FA list hes the only guy i can see that would help (assuming james/jaric were gone).

the wing guys are the ones id be looking at though.


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## Mateo

We got 4 PGs. I'm not even thinking about adding another...


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## JuX

That's why we need to start looking at small forward, power forward, and center. The power forward position is shallow, there was nobody behind Craig Smith. Mad Dog can be used at power forward, but in some cases, center.


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## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> We got 4 PGs. I'm not even thinking about adding another...


im thinking about getting rid of 2 of them though.

I want James and Jaric gone, and i dont think Foye/Hudson is enough, we need a controlling PG to come in for spot minutes, but looks like that will be via trade aswell.

i think Mo P will be chased by a few teams, but we should make a run at him first, could really help us out


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## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> That's why we need to start looking at small forward, power forward, and center. The power forward position is shallow, there was nobody behind Craig Smith. Mad Dog can be used at power forward, but in some cases, center.


Garnett/Smith/Madsen is plenty enough at PF i think, Center and Small Forward is where we are thin.


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## Avalanche

we NEED to make a run at ray allen now with the number 7 pick, theyll rebuild around durant and he could be expendable


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## Ruff Draft

This was in the Knicks forum...



> Knicks Trade (to the Kings):
> Jared Jefferies...F
> Channing Frye...F/C
> 
> Knicks Recieve (from the Wolves):
> 7th overall draft pick
> 41st pick
> Troy Hudson
> Cash Considerations
> 
> Wolves Trade (to the Knicks):
> 7th pick
> 41st pick
> Troy Hudson
> Cash Considerations
> 
> Wolves Recieve (from the Kings):
> Ron Artest...SF
> 
> 
> Kings Trade (to the Wolves):
> Ron Artest
> 
> Kings Recieve (from the Knicks):
> Channing Frye...F/C
> Jared Jefferies...F


Foye
Ricky
Artest
KG
Blount

I can dig it!


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## jokeaward

Do we want to use the MLE again?? It seems like we get really flawed players for more than they're worth.


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## socco

jokeaward said:


> Do we want to use the MLE again?? It seems like we get really flawed players for more than they're worth.


That's certainly true, but what other way could we improve the team? I guess through the draft, but you can't really count on that much out of a rookie. And with our bad contracts I'm not sure that a trade would help all that much either. I think we pretty much have to try to pick somebody up in free agency.


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## jokeaward

socco said:


> That's certainly true, but what other way could we improve the team? I guess through the draft, but you can't really count on that much out of a rookie. And with our bad contracts I'm not sure that a trade would help all that much either. I think we pretty much have to try to pick somebody up in free agency.


1) Execution, especially if it's close. Hold leads.
2) Find cheaper, hungrier players. Make current players compete for time. I usually like to have a set starting lineup but we're probably not good enough, go with the best five from the past 2-3 games.


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## Avalanche

IF we made no trades this off-season (IF) id want us to try and get Mo P with the MLE and a back up journeyman C with the LLE or the second round pick.
then draft Yi/Brewer and we land with:
Foye/James/Hudson
Ricky/Mccants/Jaric
Peterson/Hassel
Garnett/Yi
Blount/Smith/LLE or Draft.

however i think we go all out for a 2-3 year window
now this is a BIG hypothetical but youll get the idea:
Hassel/Mccants for Artest
Ricky/Hudson/7 for Pierce
Sign Magloire for the MLE

Foye/James
Pierce/Jaric
Artest/(LLE/2nd round?)
Garnett/Smith
Blount/Magloire/Madsen

i dunno, i just want to make one more serious run before its too late for KG


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## Ruff Draft

Avalanche said:


> IF we made no trades this off-season (IF) id want us to try and get Mo P with the MLE and a back up journeyman C with the LLE or the second round pick.
> then draft Yi/Brewer and we land with:
> Foye/James/Hudson
> Ricky/Mccants/Jaric
> Peterson/Hassel
> Garnett/Yi
> Blount/Smith/LLE or Draft.
> 
> however i think we go all out for a 2-3 year window
> now this is a BIG hypothetical but youll get the idea:
> Hassel/Mccants for Artest
> Ricky/Hudson/7 for Pierce
> Sign Magloire for the MLE
> 
> Foye/James
> Pierce/Jaric
> Artest/(LLE/2nd round?)
> Garnett/Smith
> Blount/Magloire/Madsen
> 
> i dunno, i just want to make one more serious run before its too late for KG



:biggrin:


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## Avalanche

XMATTHEWX said:


> :biggrin:


i know im dreamin but it looks good doesnt it lol


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## the main event

So, what about Rashard Lewis?


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## socco

the main event said:


> So, what about Rashard Lewis?


That's what most of my attention is focused on right now. I can see why he wouldn't go back to Seattle, with Durant there now. James, Jaric, and the #7 pick for Lewis in a sign and trade? Works for me.


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## Mateo

I'd do it.


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## Avalanche

socco said:


> That's what most of my attention is focused on right now. I can see why he wouldn't go back to Seattle, with Durant there now. James, Jaric, and the #7 pick for Lewis in a sign and trade? Works for me.


well i think it will depend if Orlando decides to throw a big contract offer his way, and also i dont know if they would want the 4 years on Jarics Contract because theyll need to resign durant in 3, maybe replace him with hassel to get them to agree.

but hell if we can get rashard without giving up ricky:

Foye
Davis
Lewis
Garnett
Blount

that is an offensive powerhouse of a starting line-up.


----------



## the main event

Avalanche said:


> that is an offensive powerhouse of a starting line-up.


No doubt. defintley made me drulling.

but you gotta think he'll wanna go where the big cash is.

we just need SAM I AM back here. that old guy can perform magic with KG.next thing you know it were back to being "the three headed monster" when Davis's the third head.


----------



## Avalanche

the main event said:


> No doubt. defintley made me drulling.
> 
> but you gotta think he'll wanna go where the big cash is.
> 
> we just need SAM I AM back here. that old guy can perform magic with KG.next thing you know it were back to being "the three headed monster" when Davis's the third head.


well if hes traded for James/Jaric or Hassel thats a solid $11ish mil he could be earning, maybe we could make a deal with charlotte before that to get a trade exeption considering they have so much cap space, add another couple of mil to that.

i would like to get cassell aswell if it was possible, give us a vet so bring on and really guide all those scorers around.

failing that i still think ricky and the number 7 can bring us a star.


----------



## socco

Avalanche said:


> well i think it will depend if Orlando decides to throw a big contract offer his way, and also i dont know if they would want the 4 years on Jarics Contract because theyll need to resign durant in 3, maybe replace him with hassel to get them to agree.
> 
> but hell if we can get rashard without giving up ricky:
> 
> Foye
> Davis
> Lewis
> Garnett
> Blount
> 
> that is an offensive powerhouse of a starting line-up.


I wouldn't want to give up Ricky either. I don't think the difference between Ricky and Lewis' games is enough to give up the #7 pick. I would like to keep Hassell too. Ricky played his best ball in Boston off the bench, and I think Lewis and Hassell starting with Ricky off the bench would be the ideal rotation. Not sure that it would be possible though.


----------



## Avalanche

socco said:


> I wouldn't want to give up Ricky either. I don't think the difference between Ricky and Lewis' games is enough to give up the #7 pick. I would like to keep Hassell too. Ricky played his best ball in Boston off the bench, and I think Lewis and Hassell starting with Ricky off the bench would be the ideal rotation. Not sure that it would be possible though.


true, but i dont think theres any way we get him without putting ricky or hassel in the trade, they need something of value other than the pick.

i think hassel/james/#7 would at least tweak an interest from them and would be better than him leaving for nothing.
maybe Jaric could move into the line-up to add a bit of extra ball handling, i mean there can only be so many shots for the 5 guys on the court at once.
we would still have mccants and ricky coming off the bench for a great scoring punch.
just need a back up C with the MLE and we'd be set.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Well he jumped ship. A S&T will be even more difficult with him wanting around $14M.


----------



## Avalanche

XMATTHEWX said:


> Well he jumped ship. A S&T will be even more difficult with him wanting around $14M.


true.... really it was always going to be difficult anyway, not only can the magic and bucks sign him outright, but there are a lot of teams who would be bound to make an offer if a sign and trade is on the table.

we do need one big move this off-season though, make a big splash, or a big risk somewhere and then go about filling the small holes a trade is bound to leave, we have a window of about 3 years before portland and Seattle become great teams aswell as the other 2 teams in our division so we need to take some risks


----------



## Avalanche

Throw the entire team minus KG at the lakers for kobe!!! lol

aint gonna happen but after all the talk of garnett to the lakers and the crappy deals we've seen it would be awesome for kobe to end up in minny


----------



## JuX

> *The latest on KG*
> There's always talk about Garnett, and the latest apparently unfounded speculation has him going to Phoenix in a fantasy-sounding multi-team deal that has Stoudemire going to the Bulls and the Timberwolves getting little, apparently because everyone seems to believe they'll always make a bad deal. Picking No. 7 in the draft, they have to think about doing something. Most team insiders believe the T'wolves will play it out and keep Garnett, but there was a big "what if?" when the Timberwolves landed at No. 7. They lost the postseason tiebreaker drawing for lottery position No. 6 or No. 7 with Portland after both finished 32-50.
> 
> The Bulls could have been in that drawing if not for Eddy Curry's tip-in with a half-second left to beat Charlotte in the last game of the season. Minnesota never once has moved up in a lottery drawing. It's the curse of Joe Smith.


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...6310151.column?page=2&coll=cs-bulls-headlines


----------



## JuX

> Had Timberwolves coach Randy Wittman remained with Orlando as an assistant rather than move to Minnesota as an assistant a year ago, he might have been the new head coach of the Magic.


http://www.twincities.com/walters

Aw, dammit.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> http://www.twincities.com/walters
> 
> Aw, dammit.


lol we HAVE to be due for some good luck surely....


----------



## JuX

Like Brian Hill, Wittman could have been fired right now as a head coach for the Magic. Unbelievable, eh? Maybe earlier.


----------



## Avalanche

i just cant believe we arent even considering looking at coaches with some of the guys that are now on the market, if we want to get back being competitive we should have a coach who has experience with contending teams and knows what it takes to win, keep wittman on as assistant and groom him for the job a few years down the track.

but no

i dont see wittman coaching a championship team lol


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> i just cant believe we arent even considering looking at coaches with some of the guys that are now on the market, if we want to get back being competitive we should have a coach who has experience with contending teams and knows what it takes to win, keep wittman on as assistant and groom him for the job a few years down the track.
> 
> but no
> 
> i dont see wittman coaching a championship team lol


Never will be as successful as a winning team under him. So true.


----------



## jericho

Avalanche said:


> IF we made no trades this off-season (IF) id want us to try and get Mo P with the MLE and a back up journeyman C with the LLE or the second round pick.
> then draft Yi/Brewer and we land with:
> Foye/James/Hudson
> Ricky/Mccants/Jaric
> Peterson/Hassel
> Garnett/Yi
> Blount/Smith/LLE or Draft.
> 
> however i think we go all out for a 2-3 year window
> now this is a BIG hypothetical but youll get the idea:
> Hassel/Mccants for Artest
> Ricky/Hudson/7 for Pierce
> Sign Magloire for the MLE
> 
> Foye/James
> Pierce/Jaric
> Artest/(LLE/2nd round?)
> Garnett/Smith
> Blount/Magloire/Madsen
> 
> i dunno, i just want to make one more serious run before its too late for KG


I think Boston would get more for Pierce than that. They won't want any part of Troy Hudson. The Celtics would have to really love someone in particular at the 7th pick to get rid of a borderline HoFer. 

Artest at this point is another matter, though. I kinda doubt he'll end up coming as cheap as Hassell/McCants, but I could see the 'Wolves getting him in some kind of deal. And Minny is the exact sort of franchise that's likely to be willing to roll the dice on him. 

Another possibility is throwing the #7 pick and Hassell at Atlanta for Marvin Williams. The Hawks have got to be looking to pare down their list of swingmen, and while I'm sure they'd rather hold onto Marvin, this deal would both bolster their defense and give them a shot at both a coveted big man and a coveted PG in the draft. They have time to cultivate projects. Minnesota really doesn't, and Marvin could be ready to break out next season.


----------



## the main event

KB told lakers front office that if traded, there is only one team he is willing to go to. i bet that's either the Bulls or the wolves as long as KG is staying


----------



## Avalanche

jericho said:


> I think Boston would get more for Pierce than that. They won't want any part of Troy Hudson. The Celtics would have to really love someone in particular at the 7th pick to get rid of a borderline HoFer.
> 
> Artest at this point is another matter, though. I kinda doubt he'll end up coming as cheap as Hassell/McCants, but I could see the 'Wolves getting him in some kind of deal. And Minny is the exact sort of franchise that's likely to be willing to roll the dice on him.
> 
> Another possibility is throwing the #7 pick and Hassell at Atlanta for Marvin Williams. The Hawks have got to be looking to pare down their list of swingmen, and while I'm sure they'd rather hold onto Marvin, this deal would both bolster their defense and give them a shot at both a coveted big man and a coveted PG in the draft. They have time to cultivate projects. Minnesota really doesn't, and Marvin could be ready to break out next season.


like i said none of them are likely, that was sorta a best case scenario.
the only reason for hudson is his 3 year deal expires just as the number 5 and 7s contracts would be up.
id try and throw that same deal at seattle for ray allen, and any other team looking to rebuild with a vet star currently on the roster.
marvin would be ok, hes a different sort of risk obviously with us hoping this is his break out season, i havnt seen enough of him to comment really.
artest is still a risk id be willing to take.


----------



## Avalanche

the main event said:


> KB told lakers front office that if traded, there is only one team he is willing to go to. i bet that's either the Bulls or the wolves as long as KG is staying


would LOOOVEE to see the reaction of laker fans if kobe ended up here after all the terrible KG offers we've heard.


----------



## number1pick

Draft Corey Brewer/Jeff Green/Julian Wright at #7, a guy that is a playmaking SF can create his own shot and can play defense. Then sign Maurice Williams or Charlie Bell at the PG position. 
PG - Williams/Bell
SG - Foye
SF - Brewer/Green/Wright
PF - KG
C - ?

The team would be very young so I'm not sure if KG would want to stick around and go through the growing pains and I'm not sure who would be at center or who the Wolves could pick up at center but there would definitely be some growing pains. That would be my plan if I'm McHale but he is a moron so he will probably draft Jared Dudley at #7 and then give Vin Baker a max contract.


----------



## Mateo

the main event said:


> KB told lakers front office that if traded, there is only one team he is willing to go to. i bet that's either the Bulls or the wolves as long as KG is staying


Where did you hear that.. i have a hard time buying it.


----------



## JuX

number1pick said:


> Draft Corey Brewer/Jeff Green/Julian Wright at #7, a guy that is a playmaking SF can create his own shot and can play defense. Then sign Maurice Williams or Charlie Bell at the PG position.
> PG - Williams/Bell
> SG - Foye
> SF - Brewer/Green/Wright
> PF - KG
> C - ?
> 
> The team would be very young so I'm not sure if KG would want to stick around and go through the growing pains and I'm not sure who would be at center or who the Wolves could pick up at center but there would definitely be some growing pains. That would be my plan if I'm McHale but he is a moron so he will probably draft Jared Dudley at #7 and then give Vin Baker a max contract.


We've been loaded in the PG position for a couple years now unless you package in James, Hudson for Williams. That would be nice. Drafting a shooting forward is the number one priority right now.


----------



## the main event

Mateo said:


> Where did you hear that.. i have a hard time buying it.


http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a...kers_he_would_approve_trade_to_just_one_team/
nothing about bulls or wolves- that was just my guess


----------



## Avalanche

the main event said:


> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a...kers_he_would_approve_trade_to_just_one_team/
> nothing about bulls or wolves- that was just my guess


personally my guess would be the bulls, but you never know... kobe and KG are friends, and he would see the situation garnett is in here, and would know the flat out talent that the guy has... those 2 teaming up is an instant contendor as far as im concerned.
with Kobe's take over attitude, Garnett huge on D, the boards and being a great passing big man these guys would take over.


----------



## Avalanche

well hes come out and said he wants to be traded (see the main board if you want the link)

the puppies should not be "un-tradable" right now, if we are even a remote chance of landing kobe we throw everything at him.
i dont necissarily like the guy, but we've all hoped and prayed for KG to get some help here... now that is some serious help


----------



## Mateo

Get *Kobe*. Give our #7, Rashad McCants, Craig Smith, Randy Foye, and our future #1s for the next 5 years. *Just get Kobe*. Now.


----------



## the main event

Mateo said:


> Get *Kobe*. Give our #7, Rashad McCants, Craig Smith, Randy Foye, and our future #1s for the next 5 years. *Just get Kobe*. Now.


i support!
we should sell our soul to the devilish lakers- any price they'll ask for KB.
but you all know what we need to get it going- KG must go on a statement this week that he wants kobe here and unless a major case is going to be made for him- he wants out, period to that!.


----------



## Mateo

What I mostly get from this whole Kobe debacle is that KG needs to get on the media and say the same things. KG has expressed his frustration, but he hasn't done it emphatically enough to force the team to *do something*.


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> What I mostly get from this whole Kobe debacle is that KG needs to get on the media and say the same things. KG has expressed his frustration, but he hasn't done it emphatically enough to force the team to *do something*.


KG needs to put out there "i want kobe" , as whorishly as kobe is doing with his trade demands... kobe will hear it, lakers management will hear it, wolves management will hear it... just needs to try and force their hand somehow


----------



## JuX

Bracey Wright won't be coming back next season. I can not be able to find the link right away at this moment. I'm no BS.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Bracey Wright won't be coming back next season. I can not be able to find the link right away at this moment. I'm no BS.


yeah i think we expected that, he wasnt happy not getting any minutes here and we dont really have a use for him.
will be interesting to see how he goes if a team with minutes picks him up


----------



## JuX

Yeah, pretty much this is going to happen.

I don't hate Bracey but it has been unfortunate where he get a less playing time. It's best to let him go.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Yeah, pretty much this is going to happen.
> 
> I don't hate Bracey but it has been unfortunate where he get a less playing time. It's best to let him go.


has there been any word on reed?


----------



## socco

Avalanche said:


> has there been any word on reed?


He's still got another two years on his contract.


----------



## Avalanche

socco said:


> He's still got another two years on his contract.


bah i knew that, mind blank lol thanks man.


----------



## JuX

> The Rockets plan to talk with the Minnesota Timberwolves about swapping veteran forward Juwan Howard for scoring point guard Mike James, who enjoyed two of his best seasons in Houston before going to Toronto.


http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/76773.html


----------



## JuX

So we're stuck with Troy Hudson for 3 more years.
Not to mention Marks (Blount & Mad Dog), not all of them are player options.

UGH.


----------



## JuX

Mateo said:


> Get *Kobe*. Give our #7, Rashad McCants, Craig Smith, Randy Foye, and our future #1s for the next 5 years. *Just get Kobe*. Now.


If we get Kobe, with KG and Kobe and rest of them are scrubs, except for Blount. Long term, it's a disaster.


----------



## socco

Juxtaposed said:


> If we get Kobe, with KG and Kobe and rest of them are scrubs, except for Blount. Long term, it's a disaster.


This team is a disaster long term anyways. Might as well make a real run at it instead of the half-assed attempt to contend that we're doing right now.


----------



## JuX

socco said:


> This team is a disaster long term anyways. Might as well make a real run at it instead of the half-assed attempt to contend that we're doing right now.


Either way, it's a disaster long term anyway. It'll be full assed attempt if we join the Kobe wagon.


----------



## Avalanche

socco said:


> This team is a disaster long term anyways. Might as well make a real run at it instead of the half-assed attempt to contend that we're doing right now.


exactly, long term we are in trouble anyway... hudson, james, jaric, blount all these guys have over-priced contracts that are going to keep us behind for years yet.

there are a lot of young teams who are building and look to be competing in 3-4 years, we need to compete before that, we throw everything at kobe and aim at a championship in 2 years while we can.. our rebuilding process is going to be a long and slow move regardless of when we do it, so while we have KG throw everything we have at another star (kobe particularly) and see how we go short term


----------



## JuX

Well, good luck with that. I don't see how it will EVER work at any way. 

Too much money.
Too much ego.

Let's not forget we got stupid as our GM.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Well, good luck with that. I don't see how it will EVER work at any way.
> 
> Too much money.
> Too much ego.
> 
> Let's not forget we got stupid as our GM.


its a long shot, salary and talent wise.... and of course it would be a risk but if theres any chance to take that gamble we should throw everything at it.



no arguement on the gm comment though


----------



## JuX

> Also on Miami's radar: former Heat guard Mike James, who parlayed a terrific season in Toronto into a four-year, $25 million deal last summer with Minnesota, where he disappointed.


http://www.miamiherald.com/594/story/130098.html


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> http://www.miamiherald.com/594/story/130098.html


nothing really works out talent/contract wise in a 2 team deal though, itd have to be 3 way somehow


----------



## Mateo

I beg to disagree. I'd gladly give up James who's been horrible for us, just for an expiring contract and a second round pick.

I think James and Mark Madsen for Jason Williams (expiring next year) & second round pick works out. Also James and Eddie Griffin would work, but I'm not sure if his contract can be traded or not.


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> I beg to disagree. I'd gladly give up James who's been horrible for us, just for an expiring contract and a second round pick.
> 
> I think James and Mark Madsen for Jason Williams (expiring next year) & second round pick works out. Also James and Eddie Griffin would work, but I'm not sure if his contract can be traded or not.


we need someone that can contribute. a second round pick is not going to do that, and expiring contracts dont help us AT ALL. we are so far over the cap losing mikes 5 mil wouldnt make a difference at all.

there are a couple of teams around rumoured to have interest in james, at least get something of use back IMO.


----------



## JuX

How over the cap are we? 10 million something? I didn't calculate.

We won't be under it unless we give up Jaric, Hudson, James.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> How over the cap are we? 10 million something? I didn't calculate.
> 
> We won't be under it unless we give up Jaric, Hudson, James.


i thought it was close to 10 before mike james... i think we're 15 ish over.

i havnt done the exacts though i might be wrong


----------



## socco

$69.6Mil committed to 13 players (though I'm not sure the status of Griffin's contract, K-Mac made it sound like we don't have to pay him this year. don't believe a damn thing he says though). Cap was $53.1Mil last year, not sure what it is this year. So we won't even be close. Plus each team gets a mid-level exception anyways. We have the Bi-annual exception too. Throw in various cap holds as well and there's no legitimate way we can get under the cap. The only real way to be under the cap is to have no bad contracts and all your good players on rookie contracts. The only person that would benefit from an expiring contract is Glen Taylor.


----------



## Mateo

Avalanche said:


> we need someone that can contribute. a second round pick is not going to do that, and expiring contracts dont help us AT ALL. we are so far over the cap losing mikes 5 mil wouldnt make a difference at all.
> 
> there are a couple of teams around rumoured to have interest in james, at least get something of use back IMO.


Craig Smith was a second round pick, he contributed.

And losing James' contract might not give us cap space, but it will give us more wiggle room away from the dreaded luxury tax threshold.


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> Craig Smith was a second round pick, he contributed.
> 
> And losing James' contract might not give us cap space, but it will give us more wiggle room away from the dreaded luxury tax threshold.


so we're trying to build around kg with second rounders because we've picked one good one recently?

socco whats the bi-annual exception worth?
will be interesting to see if taylor will commit to another MLE player


----------



## Mateo

Avalanche said:


> so we're trying to build around kg with second rounders because we've picked one good one recently?


No, we're trying to get as many contributing players as possible. Mike James isn't contributing. If you can figure out a way to swap James for Dwyane Wade my ears are open (  ), otherwise a small upgrade might be all we can get.


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> No, we're trying to get as many contributing players as possible. Mike James isn't contributing. If you can figure out a way to swap James for Dwyane Wade my ears are open (  ), otherwise a small upgrade might be all we can get.


donyell marshall
nazr mohammed
Jeff Foster
Radman
Stro Swift
Gadzuric
Battie or Turkoglu
etan thomas/haywood

all these guys pretty much match contracts 1 for 1 and would contribute much more than any second round pick... not that all those teams would do the trades its just food for thought, jaric could be replaced with james for some of those trades to change the value/need of the team


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> so we're trying to build around kg with second rounders because we've picked one good one recently?
> 
> socco whats the bi-annual exception worth?
> will be interesting to see if taylor will commit to another MLE player


Dunno. Craig Smith is finally the decent second rounder after many futile attempts - Blake Stepp, Loren Woods (former #1 pick prediction), Bracey Wright, Igor Rakocevic, Gordon Malone (who?).


----------



## socco

Avalanche said:


> socco whats the bi-annual exception worth?


$1.83Mil



Mateo said:


> No, we're trying to get as many contributing players as possible. Mike James isn't contributing.


James ain't bad as a backup. Sure he's overpaid and very disappointing, but he still scored 10ppg for us, that's at least something. If we could get something of value for him I wouldn't hesitate to let him go, but I don't think we should just get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him.


----------



## Avalanche

socco said:


> $1.83Mil
> 
> 
> James ain't bad as a backup. Sure he's overpaid and very disappointing, but he still scored 10ppg for us, that's at least something. If we could get something of value for him I wouldn't hesitate to let him go, but I don't think we should just get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him.


exactly, and especially if ricky gets moved we are going to need some guys to take over the scoring load at some points in games, mike james can score in bunches when hes on and is useful as a back up like you said.

however he was very disappointing here, im hoping if we do trade ricky we get a scorer back which would allow us to trade james for a rebounding center or small forward, or even just a consistant 3 point threat


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Dunno. Craig Smith is finally the decent second rounder after many futile attempts - Blake Stepp, Loren Woods (former #1 pick prediction), Bracey Wright, Igor Rakocevic, Gordon Malone (who?).


not to mention loukas macrovekiafeeliaski


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> not to mention loukas macrovekiafeeliaski


Technically, he hasn't signed with us yet.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Technically, he hasn't signed with us yet.


true true, and probably wont... think we couldve at least taken a flyer on a guy who would play in summer league and be a possible second round surprise.


----------



## JuX

Yeah, but who?


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Yeah, but who?


absolutely no idea lol, im just saying we couldve taken a flyer on someone who we could at least see play in summer league against other potential nba competition.
we lucked out on craig smith, id give up this years second with jaric to get one of the washington big men.


----------



## socco

Avalanche said:


> id give up this years second with jaric to get one of the washington big men.


Yeah, I'm all for a Jaric for Etan Thomas trade. I'd definitely like to see that happen.


----------



## Mateo

Those ideas are nice but what we really need is a *big* piece. I really think we should be pursuing Zach Randolph while his stock is so low. I think he'd shine beside Garnett. I think I'd be willing give up the draft pick to get him too.

McCants + filler (blount?) + #7 pick for Zach Randolph.

Then trade Jaric for Etan Thomas and we're going in the right direction.


----------



## the main event

Mateo said:


> Those ideas are nice but what we really need is a *big* piece. I really think we should be pursuing Zach Randolph while his stock is so low. I think he'd shine beside Garnett. I think I'd be willing give up the draft pick to get him too.
> 
> McCants + filler (blount?) + #7 pick for Zach Randolph.
> 
> Then trade Jaric for Etan Thomas and we're going in the right direction.


kinda ***** to let go of mcCants but hell that's a nice proposel!


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> Those ideas are nice but what we really need is a *big* piece. I really think we should be pursuing Zach Randolph while his stock is so low. I think he'd shine beside Garnett. I think I'd be willing give up the draft pick to get him too.
> 
> McCants + filler (blount?) + #7 pick for Zach Randolph.
> 
> Then trade Jaric for Etan Thomas and we're going in the right direction.


if we could get zach without giving up ricky id be all over it but i think portland would want the expiring, in which case i dunno if id want to lose mccants aswell... we need some perimeter scoring.
i would like to trade for zach though, his scoring down low would be fantastic next to KG's jumpers and passing skills


----------



## the main event

the playoffs are 'bout to be over.
i hope somebody is making some serious phone calls up there.
i'm about to be drafted(to tha IDF not the nba don'y get your hopes up) and i will just feel terrible to see KG's last season here being wasted! 
we can get randolph.
we can get cassel.
if those too things will happen and all we'd be losing is anything less than KG im all for it. even if we will lose ricky for those two to come here, ill do it. old same, KG, randolph trio can be a killer! add a few though guys and a scoring SG if we lose ricky and a trenton hassel and we can be something.
please.


----------



## JuX

LOL at the imaginary Washington/Jaric trade being mentioned all over and over. It's kinda funny, but it's nice to get rid of a costly garbage.

OT: Nice to be back here again. I was unable to gain access to the internet 'cuz the modem fell and broke. Had to wait till today to replace one.


----------



## JuX

It's just in: We traded Mike James to H-Town for Juwan Howard.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=2628


----------



## hollywood476

Goldenstate is trying to trade Jason Richardson and the number 16 draft pick for a better chance at getting Yi, do you think that we are a good running to get Yi? because if so I would love to have Jason Richardson in Minnesota with Kevin Garnett.


----------



## Mateo

I'd gladly trade down to 16 for Jason Richardson. If Yi is still on the board at #7, they can have him.


----------



## JuX

I'd go for it. Throw in Ricky, that way we won't logjam again in this position like we did with point guards.


----------



## Mateo

I don't know. I hardly think Richardson, Davis, McCants, Hassell constitutes a "logjam" at the SG/SF positions. I know it's weird for us to have more than one decent player at a position, but that's what good teams do.

The problem with the point guard position is that we had 4 guys who were all "all right", none were either spectacular or terrible. I think the SG/SF position would be fine like this. It would probably be Ricky/Richardson as starters, and Hassell being the first guy off the bench and McCants behind him. Those are 2 guys I think should always be coming off the bench anyways.


----------



## JuX

You left out Jaric, but you're probably right anyway. Now our frontcourt is needing some bigger changes this summer if it's possible after the draft.

Heard that Greg Ballard (former Wolves asst under Flip) or J.B. Bickerstaff might be the one to be hired as an asst coach.


----------



## Avalanche

would it be ricky, 7 for Jrich and the 16?

if so id take it, i think Richardson is the better overall player and could step it up another level here.


----------



## Avalanche

plan A:


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> plan A:


He probably will quit on us, too.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> He probably will quit on us, too.


man to be honest i dont even know anymore...

i think kobes a punk for the way hes playing this out, and is a whiny ***** for demanding a trade from a young playoffs team as it is.. but then again you cant argue with talent, risky or not.

Artest is a nut case, never know how long hell go before he gets suspended, or arrested... or god knows what else... but again you cant argue with the talent and gap that he fills here.

JO has injury issues
Randolph has character problems
Jrich has an overpriced contract

the list goes on and on but one of these risks needs to be taken if we are bothering to keep KG here, you dont win without a second star level player beside the franchise guy ... it simply doesnt happen.

i cant see mchale pulling any deal this big off, nor do i see him having the guts to trade Garnett.. whats the point of 'tweaking' a roster that doesnt even make the playoffs.

this team angers me


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> man to be honest i dont even know anymore...
> 
> i think kobes a punk for the way hes playing this out, and is a whiny ***** for demanding a trade from a young playoffs team as it is.. but then again you cant argue with talent, risky or not.


I suppose you just have found out about this news regarding Kobe's demanding to be traded once again. No?



> Artest is a nut case, never know how long hell go before he gets suspended, or arrested... or god knows what else... but again you cant argue with the talent and gap that he fills here.


We have a history of getting players in hope of straighten the hell out of him. I don't know whether it is effective. It didn't work in Eddie Griffin, so it'll be another risky move, IMO.



> JO has injury issues
> Randolph has character problems
> Jrich has an overpriced contract


BAH, but I liked Richardson better.



> the list goes on and on but one of these risks needs to be taken if we are bothering to keep KG here, you dont win without a second star level player beside the franchise guy ... it simply doesnt happen.
> 
> i cant see mchale pulling any deal this big off, nor do i see him having the guts to trade Garnett.. whats the point of 'tweaking' a roster that doesnt even make the playoffs.
> 
> this team angers me


Ditto. I can't do anything but watch things to happen inside our team day in, day out. I just hope things will go better our way.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> I suppose you just have found out about this news regarding Kobe's demanding to be traded once again. No?


indeed, apparently the JO talks fell through and straight away hes crying again to be dealt, hes a whiny ***** but possibly still the most talented one out there so he'd be worth anything we have o pair him with Garnett.




> We have a history of getting players in hope of straighten the hell out of him. I don't know whether it is effective. It didn't work in Eddie Griffin, so it'll be another risky move, IMO.


true, it worked with spree for what... one season? lol, hes just too good.. the result well outweighs the risk IMO, hes a big defensive SF who can also go for 20 a night and make up for some of blounts rebounding issues... if its just a swap with ricky, or adding in the picks id do it.




> BAH, but I liked Richardson better.


i like richardson, and i would love to have him here aswell... maybe a bad example, a smaller risk then the rest at least.





> Ditto. I can't do anything but watch things to happen inside our team day in, day out. I just hope things will go better our way.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Wally, Ratliff, Jefferson, Telfair and the #5 for KG, Hassell, Madsen and the #41. 

Wolves 
Foye/Telfair/Hudson(IR) 
Davis/McCants 
J.Green (#7)/Wally/Jaric 
Jefferson /Howard/Smith 
Noah(#5)/Blount/Ratliff(IR) 

Celtics 
West/Rondo 
Pierce/Allen 
Green/Hassell 
Garnett/Gomes/Madsen 
Perkins/Olowokandi

With us letting Theo & Ricky expire, and possibley buying otu Wally.
PLEASE!!


----------



## Avalanche

IF.... IF IF IF it really came down to trading KG id like to see what we could get from ATL, Josh smith and the number 3 pick blows every other offer away IMO, its just a matter of how much they need to add to make up salary (they do have cap room), or if a third team would get involved.

Foye
Mccants
J.Smith
B.Wright (3)
Hawes (7)

as long as Atlanta was left with Joe Johnson, Zaza, one of the small forwards (marvin/childress) and could swing a deal for a point guard Garnett is in a better situation aswell, out east with a great star in JJ to pair with.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Avalanche said:


> IF.... IF IF IF it really came down to trading KG id like to see what we could get from ATL, Josh smith and the number 3 pick blows every other offer away IMO, its just a matter of how much they need to add to make up salary (they do have cap room), or if a third team would get involved.
> 
> Foye
> Mccants
> J.Smith
> B.Wright (3)
> Hawes (7)
> 
> as long as Atlanta was left with Joe Johnson, Zaza, one of the small forwards (marvin/childress) and could swing a deal for a point guard Garnett is in a better situation aswell, out east with a great star in JJ to pair with.


That's another deal I could see us doing. I think it comes down to guys like Luol Deng, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, and the teams first rounder. I think I would prefer Jefferson & Deng over Smith though, but that #3 sure looks good!

--



> Boston Herald -
> Celtics director of basketball operations Danny Ainge acknowledged yesterday that he has talked with the Minnesota Timberwolves about a potential trade for Kevin Garnett.
> 
> However, Ainge refused to comment about a published report that had the Celts shipping Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and the fifth pick in next week’s NBA draft for the All-Star forward.
> 
> A league source confirmed the teams have talked but are not close to a deal.


----------



## sheefo13

Avalanche said:


> IF.... IF IF IF it really came down to trading KG id like to see what we could get from ATL, Josh smith and the number 3 pick blows every other offer away IMO, its just a matter of how much they need to add to make up salary (they do have cap room), or if a third team would get involved.
> 
> Foye
> Mccants
> J.Smith
> B.Wright (3)
> Hawes (7)
> 
> as long as Atlanta was left with Joe Johnson, Zaza, one of the small forwards (marvin/childress) and could swing a deal for a point guard Garnett is in a better situation aswell, out east with a great star in JJ to pair with.


I like it. A third team would probably have to be involved because I think KG's salary is like bigger than their entire teams lol. If we did get the 3 and 7 pick, I would try to move to the 2nd pick or maybe the 1st. I would love to see if we could go with Conley too. But a trade with ATL would be the best if we really wanted to rebuild.


----------



## Avalanche

i think it needs to come down to a PROVEN young guy, along with a high pick.

Jefferson + #5
Deng + #9
Amare + '08 ATL pick
Smith + #3

etc

i dunno, sure there is value around for KG and really you just want to see the guy win, but the wolves really trust management to build from stratch when they couldnt do it around an mvp the first time?


----------



## different_13

To be fair, at least this time you'd have some caproom..

And if you're trading KG, the problem is you'd need good return, and he'd need to go to a place where he can contend for a conference finals win..

Look at the Shaq trade - LA got ripped.

Boston, there's not much there you'd want really. Ok jefferson can be good. But apart from that?

Chicago, that's a bit better. They'd rather give up Nocioni, but that wouldn't cut it for you guys.. and then they'd HAVE to resign Nocioni, or have no small forward.


----------



## Avalanche

different_13 said:


> To be fair, at least this time you'd have some caproom..
> 
> And if you're trading KG, the problem is you'd need good return, and he'd need to go to a place where he can contend for a conference finals win..
> 
> Look at the Shaq trade - LA got ripped.
> 
> Boston, there's not much there you'd want really. Ok jefferson can be good. But apart from that?
> 
> Chicago, that's a bit better. They'd rather give up Nocioni, but that wouldn't cut it for you guys.. and then they'd HAVE to resign Nocioni, or have no small forward.


Jefferson, Green, Telfair and the number 5 pick is the trade discussed by the looks of it, thats better than any phoenix deal outside of involving amare and the ATL pick.

problem is even with Garnetts salary gone we have a lot of long contracts to try and trade away before we have any useful caproom.. then you have to look at the odds of a big name FA coming here in the future when we're in full rebuilding mode.

LA screwed themselves, they traded caron who is now an all-star... they got him in that shaq trade along with lamar... its never equal value but thats pretty good if they never pulled the kwame trade.

Chicago has great depth and youth... making up the salary is their main issue


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> Jefferson, Green, Telfair and the number 5 pick is the trade discussed by the looks of it, thats better than any phoenix deal outside of involving amare and the ATL pick.
> 
> problem is even with Garnetts salary gone we have a lot of long contracts to try and trade away before we have any useful caproom.. then you have to look at the odds of a big name FA coming here in the future when we're in full rebuilding mode.
> 
> LA screwed themselves, they traded caron who is now an all-star... they got him in that shaq trade along with lamar... its never equal value but thats pretty good if they never pulled the kwame trade.
> 
> Chicago has great depth and youth... making up the salary is their main issue


Why not stick to ourselves? I know it's not the best way to go. PHX won't deal Amare. I am not sure about Boston, cuz of youth in Jefferson and Telfair. We are a youthful team in McCants, Foye, Smith. We need veteran leaderships, tho. Chicago is better off with what they got. They are still improving themselves and why bother trading one of them away?


----------



## different_13

Because Chicago needs a star. Someone who's gonna score efficiently, and certainly.
Because their highest scorers (or indeed, ALL their scorers) are jumpshooters, there's no way they can guarantee a win. Their defence is very good, and while defence wins championships, you still need to score more than your opponent.
So shipping out one or two of their roleplayers (and essentially their whole squad consists of 'the third guy') for an impact player is their intention. But only if the deal is good. 

...unless of course "They are still improving themselves and why bother trading one of them away" was meant about the wolves young guys. Which I agree with, keep Foye Smith and McCants, short of anything major (i'm talking short of anything that could get you into the western finals, perhaps..)


----------



## JuX

Via Star Tribune



> Staying put
> 
> As the draft approaches and the rumor mill heats up, speculation will continue on the subject of trading Kevin Garnett.
> 
> According to Wolves owner Glen Taylor, nothing has changed in that department. After the season ended, he and Vice President of Basketball Operations Kevin McHale said the plan was to have Garnett on the team next season. That does not mean, however, that the team wouldn't listen to offers. Taylor said he hasn't heard any serious offers from anyone.
> 
> "Kevin [McHale's] plan and my plan is that he stays here," Taylor said of Garnett. "The difference is that, years ago, if a team had called [about Garnett], I wouldn't even have talked to them."


----------



## Ruff Draft

I never want to see KG leave, but if the time comes... I want Al Jefferson.


----------



## Mateo

Avalanche said:


> i think it needs to come down to a PROVEN young guy, along with a high pick.
> 
> Jefferson + #5
> Deng + #9
> Amare + '08 ATL pick
> Smith + #3
> 
> etc
> 
> i dunno, sure there is value around for KG and really you just want to see the guy win, but the wolves really trust management to build from stratch when they couldnt do it around an mvp the first time?


Exactly, we have to get at least 1 proven guy out of the deal, or else it's just absurd.


----------



## Mateo

oh, and while the Hawks idea does sound nice, I doubt Garnett would like it and I don't think they are going to pull a trade that he doesn't sign off on (both out of respect and the fact that he can say he won't resign there). I'm not even sure he'd like to play for Boston. He has too much of that "I want to be like Kirby" attitude in him. I think he would budge to play for a contender like Phoenix, or in LA where he lives, or in Chicago where he's from.... I think Boston is a "maybe" just because it's a good opportunity.


----------



## Avalanche

well by the sounds of it they are listening to offers for him... minny asked for amare the suns said no, pheonix countered with the marion package and the wolves said no, hence the fact no deal can be agreed upon.

this really has only gotten one phone call beyond where we've been the past few years, i hope this doesnt stall our entire off-season... a decision needs to be made.

if he stays we need more moves for vet talent, if hes traded we try to dump our bad contracts.. but we only have so much time.


----------



## Ruff Draft

The Boston rumors sound legit though!

yay!


----------



## JuX

The only setback in sending KG to Boston, if that happens, is KG's relationship with Wally. Is Wally in the package to be dealt or is he not? Anyway, they had some history against each other for some reasons. That should not be the concern and it could be a decent trio of KG-Pierce-Wally.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Wally could make a very good 3-4th man with them. Was there beef between the two? I thought it was all garbage.


----------



## JuX

XMATTHEWX said:


> Wally could make a very good 3-4th man with them. Was there beef between the two? I thought it was all garbage.


Apparently there were. They were going at each other in the practice and after a game, throwing punches.


----------



## Avalanche

i never heard it got to throwing fists to be honest but i know they werent on the best of terms.
however boston will be the team looking to compete and wally should stay there if possible, a pierce, garnett, wally trio is up there with the best in the league... wallys shooting would be very handy.
they would need a center with the MLE like magloire.

would be hard to make up contracts without completely gutting their team... jefferson HAS to be in the deal no question at all.

i dont understand all this after making the juwan trade? we should still be looking for a vet star... i dont want kg anywhere, go for richardson, pierce, allen, artest... something.

unless of course we can pull this off.
garnett gets traded
wins a quick ring
doesnt resign
signs with wolves in 08 for the MLE with all the new talent here lol


----------



## JuX

I swear I remembered about KG & Wally fiasco years back, I think it might or might not have included throwing punches. I admit that I'm kinda confused up by the incident between KG and Rick, where I know there's punches involved.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> I swear I remembered about KG & Wally fiasco years back, I think it might or might not have included throwing punches. I admit that I'm kinda confused up by the incident between KG and Rick, where I know there's punches involved.


lol yeah KG smacked rick up good.


----------



## the main event

7. Minnesota Timberwolves 
Here's what I think Kevin McHale will do: Wear an ugly sweater, back out of a KG deal at the last second and take Spencer Hawes at No. 7, followed by KG snapping in mid-December after a 30-point loss to the Spurs and killing everyone in Minnesota's locker room except Ricky Davis, who will calmly sit in front of his locker watching it happen while drinking a malt 40. 

Bill Simmons at his best:lol:


----------



## Avalanche

the main event said:


> 7. Minnesota Timberwolves
> Here's what I think Kevin McHale will do: Wear an ugly sweater, back out of a KG deal at the last second and take Spencer Hawes at No. 7, followed by KG snapping in mid-December after a 30-point loss to the Spurs and killing everyone in Minnesota's locker room except Ricky Davis, who will calmly sit in front of his locker watching it happen while drinking a malt 40.
> 
> Bill Simmons at his best:lol:


have to admit i found that funny


----------



## the main event

Avalanche said:


> have to admit i found that funny


Alongside hoping that it will turn out to be fiction =/


----------



## JuX

> Kevin Garnett did his best to shoot down a rumored trade that would have sent him to Boston for Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, the No. 5 pick and filler. Garnett reportedly prefers a trade to Phoenix, while the Bulls don’t appear to be in the running. According to a league source, Minnesota may try to swing a deal for Ron Artest if it keeps Garnett.


http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=326052


----------



## Ruff Draft

How do we do it? I like the idea of having Ricky/KG/Artest, but I don't really like the idea of trading McCants. Sacramento will probably want Ricky's expiring, but does upgrading Ricky to Artest make us that much better though? We better not let go of the #7...


----------



## the main event

After all, KG to LA?
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46685/20070625/kg_to_la_trade_talks_finally_arrive/


----------



## Avalanche

XMATTHEWX said:


> How do we do it? I like the idea of having Ricky/KG/Artest, but I don't really like the idea of trading McCants. Sacramento will probably want Ricky's expiring, but does upgrading Ricky to Artest make us that much better though? We better not let go of the #7...


the only thing that would happen would be a swap of picks with Sacramento, but i dont think we should even start discussing a pick with artest involved.
Id give up ricky for artest, its a risk we almost need to make if KG stays, sure he could lose it, but he could also be the second star Garnett needs to actually improve this team significantly


----------



## the main event

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46714/20070626/even_with_kg_would_kobe_still_want_out/

WTF?!
Kobe wants out even if KG is coming?
my god he's a jerk if that's a fact.


----------



## JuX

the main event said:


> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46714/20070626/even_with_kg_would_kobe_still_want_out/
> 
> WTF?!
> Kobe wants out even if KG is coming?
> my god he's a jerk if that's a fact.


If that so, then it'll be a total waste.


----------



## the main event

Juxtaposed said:


> If that so, then it'll be a total waste.


that's for sure.
i don't get kobe.
i'm telling you the guy wouldn't survive one year under the wolves if that's how he's acting when the lakers failled to give him tools for glory for just 3 seasons.
but hell, now they try to bring you KG, with whom, alongside more small peices your can regain glory and you can't get out of your own *** and say welcome...
damn..

KG should go to PHX if that's the way Kobe is going to play it. that can't be right.


----------



## Ruff Draft

How about this?


> KG --> LA
> 
> Lamar Odom, #19 --> Boston
> 
> Kwame, Bynum, Ratliff, #5 --> Minny


----------



## Mateo

i'm glad. I hated the idea of trading for odom, bynum, and kwame.


----------



## JuX

the main event said:


> that's for sure.
> i don't get kobe.
> i'm telling you the guy wouldn't survive one year under the wolves if that's how he's acting when the lakers failled to give him tools for glory for just 3 seasons.
> but hell, now they try to bring you KG, with whom, alongside more small peices your can regain glory and you can get out of your own *** and say welcome...
> damn..
> 
> KG should go to PHX if that's the way Kobe is going to play it. that can't be right.


I'm in for a total agreement. PHX still has the best offer that we could get in trade than LA. Forget LA.

Like Avalanche said this is hopefully a smokescreen but we'll see.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> I'm in for a total agreement. PHX still has the best offer that we could get in trade than LA. Forget LA.
> 
> Like Avalanche said this is hopefully a smokescreen but we'll see.


looks like the lakers talk is all but dead, so im guessing the wolves just wanted to keep the rumors out there and try to force other teams' hands.

the boston, pheonix, minny deal looks most likely which basically means we are in full rebuilding mode, high picks and expiring contracts..
so now wolves fans may be forced to watch mchale n co build a team from scratch, when they havnt managed to do it with Garnett in over 10 years.


i wish the wolves would just try once more and go for pierce... or maybe jermaine.


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> looks like the lakers talk is all but dead, so im guessing the wolves just wanted to keep the rumors out there and try to force other teams' hands.
> 
> *the boston, pheonix, minny deal looks most likely which basically means we are in full rebuilding mode, high picks and expiring contracts..
> so now wolves fans may be forced to watch mchale n co build a team from scratch, when they havnt managed to do it with Garnett in over 10 years.*
> 
> 
> i wish the wolves would just try once more and go for pierce... or maybe jermaine.


Just barely. They had some good players back then but was not the best though. They had Mebury for a few years before he wanted out. Googs was effective until injuries and later became greedy. 

So frankly, I'm tired of watching them rebuilding for a long time to come. To come up as close as possible is good enough for me.


----------



## JuX

Any trade ideas regarding Trenton Hassell?


----------



## Ruff Draft

Hassell for Foster or Haywood or Etan Thomas.


----------



## Avalanche

yeah i think one of the washington bigs ould be the best trade for hassel, however after the draft they would need some front court depth some other way.
haywood/etan would be good here though


----------



## JuX

I always liked Hassell because of his perimeter defense. He is not big on the offensive end, though. The thing that got me scratching my head how the hell did we fall in Portland's trap? Obviously we got a meathead for our GM, had to sacrifice some of our money that would be gone for a better free agent to Hassell's big contract. I don't think he deserves a contract like that. Maybe less than that will be fine.

I think he needs to go. Marko, too. Troy wants out. Ricky is better off as a reserve.


----------



## Ruff Draft

So do we still believe in a Jefferson to Minne, Marion to Boston, and KG to Phoenix trade?


----------



## Avalanche

XMATTHEWX said:


> So do we still believe in a Jefferson to Minne, Marion to Boston, and KG to Phoenix trade?


the boston trade originally had the number 5 pick in it, you wouldnt think we would accept that trade now without the pick involved.

ATLs '08 pick would have to be involved at very least.


oh and jux as far as hassel goes i do think hes very expendable now with brewer on board, i really like the guy but really there would be some teams who need a defensive 'stopper' and may be willing to give us a PG or C in return.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Al Jefferson + Green + Filler is still a good deal. They can send us a 1st next year, and our own pick back. I still think the Boston deal is the bestw e can get. I haven't seen what Luol Deng or Josh Howard may be packaged with yet though.


----------



## Avalanche

i think we take the big risk approach if Garnett is staying.
Sign Steve Francis once he's bought out
Trade Ricky for Artest
Trade Hassel/2nd rounder for Jeff Foster

Foye/Jaric/Hudson
Francis/Mccants
Artest/Brewer
Garnett/Smith/Howard
Blount/Foster/Richard

if francis can be signed short term for cheap hed be worth the risk, as would artest withonly 1 year on his deal. foster is a great guy to change up the C position with Blount.
Brewer can move over to the 2 and we can field a great defensive team.


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> i think we take the big risk approach if Garnett is staying.
> Sign Steve Francis once he's bought out
> Trade Ricky for Artest
> Trade Hassel/2nd rounder for Jeff Foster
> 
> Foye/Jaric/Hudson
> Francis/Mccants
> Artest/Brewer
> Garnett/Smith/Howard
> Blount/Foster/Richard
> 
> if francis can be signed short term for cheap hed be worth the risk, as would artest withonly 1 year on his deal. foster is a great guy to change up the C position with Blount.
> Brewer can move over to the 2 and we can field a great defensive team.


You left out Mad Dog.


----------



## JuX

http://www.startribune.com/511/story/1277407.html


----------



## Mateo

McHale is such a lazy scout. According to the Mark Stein article, McHale wanted to get Al Horford and Noah in addition to Brewer and Richard.... 4 guys from the same college team? When has 4 guys from the same college all been good in the pros? What lazy recruiting, I bet all he did was watch the final 4 and decided he liked the winning team.


----------



## socco

Mateo said:


> McHale is such a lazy scout. According to the Mark Stein article, McHale wanted to get Al Horford and Noah in addition to Brewer and Richard.... 4 guys from the same college team? When has 4 guys from the same college all been good in the pros? What lazy recruiting, *I bet all he did was watch the final 4 and decided he liked the winning team.*


Pretty much.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Let's have a fire sale. 50% off over-payed guards!


----------



## Avalanche

wel by the sounds of it we'll throw the MLE at someone again this season, no idea who they will target tho.. whether Garnett stays or not.
Magloire is the only real center prospect that could help if he returned to form


----------



## Ruff Draft

If KG is traded, what kind fo "rebuilding" talent can we get for the MLE?


----------



## Avalanche

XMATTHEWX said:


> If KG is traded, what kind fo "rebuilding" talent can we get for the MLE?


Matt Barnes maybe?


----------



## Ruff Draft

I was looking through the list and he was a good choice. I have a feeling we would need to overpay him, but will he play as well under a slower system?


----------



## Avalanche

XMATTHEWX said:


> I was looking through the list and he was a good choice. I have a feeling we would need to overpay him, but will he play as well under a slower system?


god knows i was just throwin something out there lol.
i think he'd be ok, if foye can develop the drive and dish game barnes could get some open looks, would be nice to have a big guy that could command double teams too. (obviously assuming Garnett was gone)


----------



## Mateo

Let's go after Juan Carlos Navarro. The Wizards don't need him, let's throw Chris Richard for him. Minimal risk and possible big reward (who knows, could be the next Calderon).


----------



## Mateo

Also, I don't see why we're not going after Gerald Wallace hard. I'd be willing to pay 11 million per year, and give up Brewer in a sign/trade.


----------



## Ruff Draft

We can't offer Wallace 11M a year...


----------



## Mateo

in a sign and trade? why not?


----------



## Avalanche

francis just got bought out, we need big guys but im probably one of the few who would sign him for a couple of seasons, might be worth the risk.


----------



## sheefo13

A guy the wolves need to look at is John Lucas if we can move Hudson and/or Jaric. Looks like he wants some playing time, and we know he can play.


----------



## JuX

Why did we ever release him from the training camp roster?


----------



## JuX

The Wizards are seeking to trade Etan Thomas.


----------



## socco

Juxtaposed said:


> The Wizards are seeking to trade Etan Thomas.


I've been pushing a Jaric for Thomas trade for about a year now. I'd be extremely happy with a deal like that.


----------



## Avalanche

socco said:


> I've been pushing a Jaric for Thomas trade for about a year now. I'd be extremely happy with a deal like that.


or hassel for that matter


----------



## sheefo13

I would much rather have Hassell than Jaric...


----------



## Avalanche

sheefo13 said:


> I would much rather have Hassell than Jaric...


as would i... easily, but id much preffer etan then either of them personally.


----------



## JuX

I'd personally deal Jaric before Hassell.


----------



## Avalanche

totaly agree, but if hassel has to go to get us an inside player like etan i still do it.


----------



## Avalanche

so if KG stays, which now looks likely... and barring a big trade there are 2 questions that now need to be answered...

who do we go after with the MLE?

and what is the starting line up going to be? Craig smith looks like hes working his *** off to get into that line up, also the other starting swingman is way up in the air.


----------



## socco

Avalanche said:


> who do we go after with the MLE?


My guess: nobody


----------



## Mateo

I know, I hate that too. We should be going after Matt Barnes hard right now.


----------



## JuX

With MLE?


----------



## Mateo

Yeah, definitely.


----------



## sheefo13

Yeah I think Matt Barnes has to be a guy the wolves would end up with... Barnes has openly complained about no teams offering him the full MLE... We have not offered to anyone... Lets just overpay him like we do to everyone else. I mean, there is minimal sarcasm in that statement, but realistcly I would like to see us use PART of the MLE... But we will likely use it all on him... Which would not be good. But I think he would be a starter at the 3 spot.


----------



## JuX

Just leave him with the offer of MLE, I think it'd be a good steal. Considering the stellar season he had last season it'll be worth it.

Why complaining about not getting any offers at all? Then simply offer him MLE, if not, leave him out. Find another back up center. Mad Dog is suspectible to any kind of injuries and Chris Richard is probably not going to be on the roster.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Hassell + Ricky D to Denver for Camby & J.R.?


----------



## Ruff Draft

Etan Thomas for Mark Blount?


----------



## JuX

XMATTHEWX said:


> Hassell + Ricky D to Denver for Camby & J.R.?


Another one that we don't need to cause any more troubles. We don't also need back court defensive liability. Camby is a nice pick up, though. 



> Etan Thomas for Mark Blount?


If we need more power down inside, then I don't see why not.


----------



## Avalanche

theres just too much roster to fill up with just a trade, or just a signing, even if they arent blockbusters some more moves need to be made to field a deep, complete team.

terrel brandon maybe with part of the MLE

then possibly a trade to GS for pietrius and obryant or something?


----------



## sheefo13

Terrell Brandon??? Is that serious? I mean, maybe I haven't heard he came back.


----------



## JuX

No way TeeBee is coming back.


----------



## Avalanche

lol my bad, not brandon i meant brevin knight (yeah cause the names are sorta close) 

just a pass first PG to back up foye


----------



## sheefo13

Lol I was going to say, where are the rumors of him coming back?>!?!? But I think the two free agents the wolves need to be eying are Brevin Knight and Matt Barnes.


----------



## Avalanche

sheefo13 said:


> Lol I was going to say, where are the rumors of him coming back?>!?!? But I think the two free agents the wolves need to be eying are Brevin Knight and Matt Barnes.


hehe yeah my bad.

definately 2 guys there that are worth taking a look at, barnes' shooting from the SF spot would be great and brevin is the perfect back up for foye.


----------



## JuX

I hope the possibility of signing Barnes won't hinder Brewer's development particularly in the offense end. Other than that, it is a good pick up.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> I hope the possibility of signing Barnes won't hinder Brewer's development particularly in the offense end. Other than that, it is a good pick up.


i dont think so, someone will split time with him at the 3, jaric and hassel are more 2 guards anyway so if we could move one of them and pick up barnes i think brewer would be fine.


----------



## Mateo

According to hoopshype we're trying to buy out Hudson's contract. What a waste of money that was.


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> According to hoopshype we're trying to buy out Hudson's contract. What a waste of money that was.


that would be a stupid move, thats a lot of money for no return especially because hudson isnt exactly gonna let them take a discount on the buy out.

there must be some player we could get for hudson and a 2nd rounder or something, even if its another bad contract at least find someone who could be used on the roster, as some teams could use hudson im sure... like miami for example.

or if not them use him here, our back up PG situation isnt exactly great


----------



## JuX

Mateo said:


> According to hoopshype we're trying to buy out Hudson's contract. What a waste of money that was.


How classic is Taylor?

Un-****ing-real. Trade Hudson now as he wished.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> How classic is Taylor?
> 
> Un-****ing-real. Trade Hudson now as he wished.


yeah, seriously there has to be some team that would give up something for him, straight up or if he was packaged with hassel and a pick or something.

dont just straight buy him out, its totally pointless


----------



## Avalanche

well apparently not... they have reportidly made hudson a buy out offer, although its meant to be pretty low and hudson is yet to respond.

stupid move.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I honestly don't think there is a Hudson deal on the table. You don't just buy-out someone like that. Nobody wanted his garbge contract.


----------



## JuX

XMATTHEWX said:


> I honestly don't think there is a Hudson deal on the table. You don't just buy-out someone like that. Nobody wanted his garbge contract.


Yeppers. That's the story of Wolves' management.


----------



## Avalanche

hudson/2nd rounder for Eric snow?

anyway looks like he'll be bought out now, wouldnt surprise me to see miami pick him up.


----------



## Mateo

I wouldn't package him unless it meant getting someone who's actually worth having on the team. Buyout might be the best option, because he has negative value on the market.


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> I wouldn't package him unless it meant getting someone who's actually worth having on the team. Buyout might be the best option, because he has negative value on the market.


but we might at least be able to get a guy who would make the rotation here.. why they ever said no to the nazr trade is beyond me.
at least try and trade him for someone whos deal is a year shorter or something, thats a lot of money against the cap for a player who isnt even playing here (for 3 more seasons at that)


----------



## Mateo

If it was a worthy rotation player, sure. But as far as giving up draft picks for people like Eric Snow... I'm not for that at all. I think a buyout is the better of two bad options.


----------



## JuX

That means we lose some money. Not an ideal idea in the terms of getting rid of him. I mean I hope we will salvage some of the money to afford a decent free agent.


----------



## Avalanche

money wise if we can buy him out on the cheap, and sign a guy for part of the MLE we could actually end up spending less money, although he would still be counting against the cap.
apparently he has said no to the buyout because it was too small of an offer.

we need a back up PG from somewhere


----------



## Zuca

Avalanche said:


> money wise if we can buy him out on the cheap, and sign a guy for part of the MLE we could actually end up spending less money, although he would still be counting against the cap.
> apparently he has said no to the buyout because it was too small of an offer.
> 
> we need a back up PG from somewhere


I still believe that if Minnesota offer him to Phoenix for Banks and Piatkowski (to fill salaries), Phoenix will take him because they won't use Banks and Hudson contract is a year shorter than Banks contract. Banks can be useful in Minny, like Hudson fit better the Suns style. Win-win for both.


----------



## Mateo

I like that idea Zuca.


----------



## JuX

Zuca said:


> I still believe that if Minnesota offer him to Phoenix for Banks and Piatkowski (to fill salaries), Phoenix will take him because they won't use Banks and Hudson contract is a year shorter than Banks contract. Banks can be useful in Minny, like Hudson fit better the Suns style. Win-win for both.


So we got ripped off again? No way.


----------



## Zuca

Juxtaposed said:


> So we got ripped off again? No way.


You must be joking, right?

No way your team got ripped! Banks is a talented player and can be a useful backing up Foye (especially because Foye is more of a shooting PG, while Banks is more of a defensive one)

You didn't like him when he was with your team? You think that he was/is worst than Troy?


----------



## JuX

Zuca said:


> You must be joking, right?
> 
> No way your team got ripped! Banks is a talented player and can be a useful backing up Foye (especially because Foye is more of a shooting PG, while Banks is more of a defensive one)
> 
> You didn't like him when he was with your team? You think that he was/is worst than Troy?


Financially-wise, yes. I don't like when players went to different destination after doing so well in the previous place like Banks. He went after money and he ended up warming those bench seats most of last season and then put him to playable minutes?


----------



## socco

Avalanche said:


> why they ever said no to the nazr trade is beyond me.


Nazr - 4 years left
Huddy - 3 years left



Juxtaposed said:


> He went after money and he ended up warming those bench seats most of last season and then put him to playable minutes?


He didn't really go after the money. He wanted to come back and we basically gave him the cold shoulder. I'd jump all over that deal Zuca suggested. Banks was imo the best PG we've had since Cassell left. And we can get him back for a guy who never plays and has a horrible contract? I do that every day of the week.


----------



## JuX

I thought he left for the better of money. Oh rly? Then my bad.


----------



## Avalanche

id take the pheonix deal i guess, as long as we can get a rotation guy for hudson we couldnt really be fussy


----------



## JuX

OK, we are now in the post KG trade. Should we make some more minor moves or we're done for this offseason?


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> OK, we are now in the post KG trade. Should we make some more minor moves or we're done for this offseason?


i think one of Jaric/Howard/Blount/Ricky needs to be gone before the season starts..


----------



## JuX

Apparently THud is well on his way to Beantown. Just like someone's sidekick.

We have one or two players to cut. I always wanted Jaric out before somebody else.


----------



## Avalanche

i actually always liked hudson, he was just terribly over-paid.

he'll do ok in boston and will hopefully help them out at the PG spot


----------



## different_13

If any deals are done (in the next 1 or 2 months), they should be made for capspace or picks.

I don't think you can get any decent prospects just yet - however, at the deadline the upper echelon playoff teams will be searching for something extra off the bench - a scorer like Davis, or a defender like Hassell. Hell, even a body or veteran leadership, like Blount or Howard.
However, those type of deals wouldn't be made until the deadline.

For example, a team like the Rockets may find itself lacking a big body to backup Yao - if the think it can take them into the conference finals, I can see them taking Blount in return for either expiring contracts or one of their young players.
That isn't really the perfect example though, as they wouldn't give up Hayes, and Head (and Brooks) is a bit too much like Foye (not a passing guard, but not a true sg either).

Another question to ask is, is the ownership willing to pay for buyouts like the Blazers owner - if noone is willing to take Jaric, would he just buy him out?


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> i actually always liked hudson, he was just terribly over-paid.
> 
> he'll do ok in boston and will hopefully help them out at the PG spot


They also signed Eddie House and Jackie Manuel(?). I think Manuel is likely to go.

I liked him too till his ankles broke and get rewarded just like that.


----------



## socco

Juxtaposed said:


> OK, we are now in the post KG trade. Should we make some more minor moves or we're done for this offseason?


Ricky Davis and Mark Blount *have to* be traded.


----------



## Ruff Draft

socco said:


> Ricky Davis and Mark Blount *have to* be traded.


:cheers:


----------



## JuX

Mateo said:


> I know, I hate that too. We should be going after Matt Barnes hard right now.


We missed a target on Matt Barnes. Just signed MLE worth $3.5 mil to stay for another year with the Warriors.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> We missed a target on Matt Barnes. Just signed MLE worth $3.5 mil to stay for another year with the Warriors.


Looks like he didnt get the pay day he was after, go back to the warriors and try to up his stats for next off-season.


----------



## JuX

Apparently. I wish we can have gotten him so that way it would make Hassell or Jaric expendable.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Apparently. I wish we can have gotten him so that way it would make Hassell or Jaric expendable.


They are expendable as is if you ask me, i dont mind keeping Hassel because hes a good mentor/vet prescence and could teach these guys some D, but Jaric can go... shorter contract, second round pick... something hes of no use here now... unless of course we manage to find nothing in the way of a back up PG


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> They are expendable as is if you ask me, i dont mind keeping Hassel because hes a good mentor/vet prescence and could teach these guys some D, but Jaric can go... shorter contract, second round pick... something hes of no use here now... unless of course we manage to find nothing in the way of a back up PG


I don't want any more long and massive contracts on this team. Let's rebuild all over from scratch with the combo of Jefferson/Foye and some younger players like Brewer, Green, and McCants. 

Smith and Gomes are in their last year of their contacts.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> I don't want any more long and massive contracts on this team. Let's rebuild all over from scratch with the combo of Jefferson/Foye and some younger players like Brewer, Green, and McCants.
> 
> Smith and Gomes are in their last year of their contacts.


We Sooo better re-up smith, i can see him and Jefferson are going to work very well with Brewer whos passing into the post surprised me a whole lot.

need to rid ourselves of Jarics nasty contract most definately, i think we should be able to get picks or young guys for Ricky D aswell, just letting him expire wont be as valuable for us.


----------



## Zuca

New idea:

Minny trade Ricky Davis and Jaric to Seattle;
Seattle trade Wally Szczerbiak to Portland and Johan Petro to Minnesota;
Portland trade Raef Lafrentz to Minnesota;

Add extra big men help to this team and Raef big contract expires after next season. Petro is another young big to improve your nucleous. Seattle does it to add another expiring in Ricky (who is more of a SG than Wally) and another PG option in Jaric. Portland can use Wally both in SF (their weak position) and SG position (Roy backup)

Then, try to deal away Blount and Hassell for some extra PG, SF and SG help.

Trenton Hassell + Juwan Howard to Cleveland for Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall.


As for Blount, I didn't have much ideas for now.

Perhaps something like Blount and Madsen to Indiana for Mike Dunleavy Jr and David Harrison?


----------



## Avalanche

Zuca said:


> New idea:
> 
> Minny trade Ricky Davis and Jaric to Seattle;
> Seattle trade Wally Szczerbiak to Portland and Johan Petro to Minnesota;
> Portland trade Raef Lafrentz to Minnesota;
> 
> Add extra big men help to this team and Raef big contract expires after next season. Petro is another young big to improve your nucleous. Seattle does it to add another expiring in Ricky (who is more of a SG than Wally) and another PG option in Jaric. Portland can use Wally both in SF (their weak position) and SG position (Roy backup)
> 
> Then, try to deal away Blount and Hassell for some extra PG, SF and SG help.
> 
> Trenton Hassell + Juwan Howard to Cleveland for Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall.
> 
> 
> As for Blount, I didn't have much ideas for now.
> 
> Perhaps something like Blount and Madsen to Indiana for Mike Dunleavy Jr and David Harrison?


i doubt seattle or portland would bother with that trade to be honest.

id trade Blount to Orlando for expirings 2nd rounder, Jaric to Denver for expirings.

hold off on ricky til the deadline, see if a team has injuries... trying to make a playoff push and could use him, try and get a young guy or a higher pick for him.
keep hassel and madsen around


----------



## Ruff Draft

I'm pretty set on Blount to Orlando. If they dont sign Oakley/Skinner I could see it happening. Something like Hassell to Denver for Reggie is possible too. Ricky is as good as gone by the deadline.


----------



## Zuca

Avalanche said:


> i doubt seattle or portland would bother with that trade to be honest.
> 
> id trade Blount to Orlando for expirings 2nd rounder, Jaric to Denver for expirings.
> 
> hold off on ricky til the deadline, see if a team has injuries... trying to make a playoff push and could use him, try and get a young guy or a higher pick for him.
> keep hassel and madsen around


There is no reason that Portland would decline. Wally would immediately improve their roster and the price would be just Raef, which isn't going to be much used there (especially with Oden, Frye and McRoberts added to their roster). Ditto for Seattle, having Jaric and Ricky is better than pay Wally to be at their bench earning a big salary while playing the same position of Green and Durant (which can play both forward spots).


----------



## Avalanche

Zuca said:


> There is no reason that Portland would decline. Wally would immediately improve their roster and the price would be just Raef, which isn't going to be much used there (especially with Oden, Frye and McRoberts added to their roster). Ditto for Seattle, having Jaric and Ricky is better than pay Wally to be at their bench earning a big salary while playing the same position of Green and Durant (which can play both forward spots).


i cant see Seattle wanting to bring in Jarics long term contract, even if it is only half the price of wallys its 2 years longer.

and yeah i thought raefs deal was a year shorter than wallys, i guess they would take it... seattle declines though IMO


----------



## Zuca

Avalanche said:


> i cant see Seattle wanting to bring in Jarics long term contract, even if it is only half the price of wallys its 2 years longer.
> 
> and yeah i thought raefs deal was a year shorter than wallys, i guess they would take it... seattle declines though IMO


But I can see them taking because PG is one of their weakest positions and Carlesimo may like Jaric versatility (since he can also play SG and SF in short spurts). Also, just by adding Ricky Davis means a "win" talent wise (over Wally)


----------



## Avalanche

Zuca said:


> But I can see them taking because PG is one of their weakest positions and Carlesimo may like Jaric versatility (since he can also play SG and SF in short spurts). Also, just by adding Ricky Davis means a "win" talent wise (over Wally)


definately a move up in talent, but the sonics arent looking to improve for next season they will be fighting for the worst record...
Jaric would probably be ok but for the contract and what he brings its really not worth it IMO


----------



## JuX

> Ed Pinckney, an assistant basketball coach at Villanova, will replace Rex Kalamian as an assistant with the Timberwolves. Pinckney, a star on the Villanova team that upset Georgetown 66-64 for the 1985 NCAA title, coached Wolves guard Randy Foye. A No. 1 draft choice of Phoenix in 1985, he played 12 seasons in the NBA. Kalamian is leaving the Wolves to become an assistant with the Sacramento Kings.
> 
> Wolves owner Glen Taylor held a board of directors and owners meeting Wednesday and he reported to the group that the franchise lost more than $20 million last season, but he is hopeful of a more successful season.
> 
> The Wolves are trying to satisfy forward Juwan Howard, who has asked to be traded because he had agreed to be traded here from the Houston Rockets because of the opportunity to play with Kevin Garnett. Now that Garnett has been traded to the Boston Celtics, Howard wants to play elsewhere. He has named three teams he would prefer to play with, but so far none of the three have offered what the Wolves believe would be adequate trade value.
> 
> The Wolves have offered a one-year contract at the minimum of $420,000 and a club option for two more years to Chris Richard, the team's second-round draft choice from Florida. However, Richard's agent is looking for a two-year guarantee. The Wolves have 15 signed players and Richard would be the 16th to put them over the limit, so they have not rushed into negotiations. Richard has been working out with the team.


Via Star Tribune


----------



## Avalanche

nice to see we signed richard, and i guess getting one of foyes old coaches cant be a bad thing


----------



## JuX

Richard better prove why he's worth a damn thing.

Troy Hudson is a Warrior now. Bay City, prepare for the wrath of THud.


----------



## Mateo

Latest I heard is that Richard isn't signed, we merely gave him the qualifying offer but he hasn't agreed; yet.


----------



## Avalanche

> The Minnesota Timberwolves , their roster bloated from this summer's blockbuster trade of Kevin Garnett, would like to make another deal before the season starts.
> 
> But with many other teams worried about the luxury tax, the Timberwolves are likely to start training camp this weekend with 16 players on their roster -- including five guys they got from the Boston Celtics for Garnett. Eight players are returning from last season, plus two draft picks and veteran forward Juwan Howard, who came in a trade with the Houston Rockets .
> 
> "We're talking with some teams. Really, it's just been a slow, slow month," vice president Kevin McHale said Tuesday. He said he had "three or four" deals on the table, waiting word from those teams once they assess their situation in regard to the salary cap.


http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/48189/20070926/wolves_looking_to_deal/


----------



## Ruff Draft

Oooh. 3 or... 4!!!


----------



## Avalanche

Probably all terrible deals for ricky though lol


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> Probably all terrible deals for ricky though lol


Which are? I haven't been logging in here lately.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Which are? I haven't been logging in here lately.


nah im not sure to be honest, ive been snooping around a bit, i think theres possibly talks between wolves and the heat, trying to use ricky to unload hassel/blount and get solely expirings in return.

apart from that i got no idea


----------



## Ruff Draft

Hopefully the "deal" with Miami can bring us some whopping expirings, and get rid of Blount.


----------



## JuX

Nice, another "possible" cap space reliever.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> Nice, another "possible" cap space reliever.


well really its all we need at the moment.
no need to improve with vets because if we get a pick outside the top 10 we lose it, not like we'll compete immediately anyway.
and theres enough young talent here to develop anyway... picks and expirings is all we need


----------



## JuX

Avalanche said:


> well really its all we need at the moment.
> no need to improve with vets because if we get a pick outside the top 10 we lose it, not like we'll compete immediately anyway.
> and theres enough young talent here to develop anyway... picks and expirings is all we need


I never said we should improve our roster right away. It is for the future use when the time is right. We've been over the cap space for too long and it's time for us to get below it and start building the team from scratch - not necessarily the veterans, but with youngsters. It'll be good to go for a long term.


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> I never said we should improve our roster right away. It is for the future use when the time is right. We've been over the cap space for too long and it's time for us to get below it and start building the team from scratch - not necessarily the veterans, but with youngsters. It'll be good to go for a long term.


just re-iterating, i knew what u meant


----------



## Mateo

Avalanche said:


> well really its all we need at the moment.
> no need to improve with vets because if we get a pick outside the top 10 we lose it, not like we'll compete immediately anyway.
> and theres enough young talent here to develop anyway... picks and expirings is all we need


I think our young talent is pretty mediocre, actually.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Now that Battie is out for the year. Blount is on his way to Orlando.


----------



## JuX

> Marko Jaric, attending the Minnesota Timberwolves media session Friday, made it very clear that he has asked to be traded and would prefer to play for another team this season.
> 
> Source: Minneapolis Star Tribune


http://www.startribune.com/507/story/1454621-p2.html

Marko have asked to be traded several times already.


----------



## Mateo

maybe if he'd start playing decently teams would want him.


----------



## JuX

Mateo said:


> maybe if he'd start playing decently teams would want him.


Very true. If he's gonna play better than last 2 seasons, he would earn that goal of being traded to another team. The majority of it is entirely up to Marko.


----------



## Avalanche

I think the thing holding up the miami deal is them losing JWill, it leaves their PG spot very thin.
we should trade:
Jaric/Davis for Antoine/Doleac and a first... Walker will expire in 2 seasons which is when we will have big capspace and it relieves us of jaric, picks up a 1st etc.

then swing blount to orlando for expirings


----------



## Avalanche

Oh and Chris Richard was officially signed FYI


----------



## JuX

Hopefully this is not the end of roster moves before the start of regular season.


----------



## bball2223

I don't really follow the Timberwolves, and this year looks like it's going to be tough but you guys have a good centerpiece for the future in Randy Foye. He is going to be a premier combo guard in a few years.


----------



## JuX

bball2223 said:


> I don't really follow the Timberwolves, and this year looks like it's going to be tough but you guys have a good centerpiece for the future in Randy Foye. He is going to be a premier combo guard in a few years.


A true test will coming this season for Foye if he's mentally ready to take over the starting guard spot for a long time to come for just one team. I just hope he's capable to handle the PG situation better, much better, than he did last year.


----------



## Mateo

bball2223 said:


> I don't really follow the Timberwolves, and this year looks like it's going to be tough but you guys have a good centerpiece for the future in Randy Foye. He is going to be a premier combo guard in a few years.


Foye's definitely not our centerpiece, although he does seem to be the billboard guy for now. Jefferson is the centerpiece.


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> Foye's definitely not our centerpiece, although he does seem to be the billboard guy for now. Jefferson is the centerpiece.


Personally i think there is as much faith in Foye as there is in Jefferson, and its not for no reason.

OT: Looks like i picked up Mod status..... :cheers:


----------



## Avalanche

If we were to make another move this off-season to improve, rather than just dump contracts:


> And that led to another surprising comment from McMillan. Early in our conversation, McMillan talked about wanting to use a 9-man playing rotation this season. That led me to ask about Rodriguez, a player who fans, and general manager Kevin Pritchard, love.
> 
> "He's out (of the rotation),'' McMillan said of Rodriguez. "Right now, he is. He's going to have to play his way in, and that's going to be hard to do unless Blake or Jack just dog it, which I don't think will happen.''
> 
> It became apparent last season, and during summer league, that McMillan has no patience for Rodriguez's penchant for turnovers and defensive breakdowns on the perimeter. Still, McMillan said he is not down on Sergio.
> 
> "Eventually, we are going to have to make a decision with one of our guards,'' McMillan said. "There has been a lot of interest in Jack, Sergio and Green. People have been calling. That's why when Kevin and I talked, we agreed that we are young as heck and lacking experience, but we decided that we weren't going to mess with this team. I know we have four point guards, and we like them all, so let's keep them.''


if hes gettable we should go for sergio while hes there, really liked what ive seen... would they take gomes or someone to play the 3 for him?


----------



## JuX

I don't know about Sergio. I don't watch and follow the Blazers. I think we're pretty set on the guard position unless Telfair is being himself again, we'll get back to that.

Av - congrats on becoming a mod! You're deserving that position greatly.

:cheers:


----------



## Avalanche

Juxtaposed said:


> I don't know about Sergio. I don't watch and follow the Blazers. I think we're pretty set on the guard position unless Telfair is being himself again, we'll get back to that.
> 
> *Av - congrats on becoming a mod! You're deserving that position greatly.*
> 
> :cheers:


much appreciated


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## JuX

> Sebastian Telfair isn't going to have an easy time sticking with the Timberwolves. Owner Glen Taylor confessed to an associate that he didn't want the former Lincoln great, but had to take him to get Boston to do the Kevin Garnett trade.


http://www.nydailynews.com/img/ui_h1_knicks.gif


----------



## Mateo

Telfair outplayed Foye yesterday. Foye with his usual inefficient 10 points.


----------



## Avalanche

Mateo said:


> Telfair outplayed Foye yesterday. Foye with his usual inefficient 10 points.


I'll be keeping an eye on telfair this season, i think he could be a good surprise coming from the trade


----------



## JuX

Yep, and in addition of Foye's being a disappointment.


----------



## Avalanche

I wouldnt be so worried about Foye, he may start slow but i see a big season coming from him, one that will get him some real recognition around the league... not just being "the guy we traded roy for".

i still think he becomes the better of the 2 long term personally, but yes i know this isnt a widely agreed with thought


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## JuX

I think we're better ready for a very, very long season.


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## Avalanche

JuX said:


> I think we're better ready for a very, very long season.


oh i completely agree, but i can see Jefferson and Foye (hopefully among others) giving us some reason to smile amongst the losses


----------



## Wade County

You guys will be entertaining, im lookin forward to watchin Al blossom and Foye becoming DWade lite - 17-18ppg,4 boards, 4 assists


----------



## Avalanche

I'm really hoping telfair can step up this season, because it will give Foye a chance to run off the ball and work primarily as a scorer on occasions not just having to run pure point the whole game.... could definately get him up towards the 17-18ppg range.

as long as ricky doesnt try and average 30 a game


----------



## Ruff Draft

Still waiting on Blount to Orlando, and Davis/Howard to Miami.


----------



## Avalanche

Ruff Draft said:


> Still waiting on Blount to Orlando, and Davis/Howard to Miami.


Dont hold your breath, looks like both teams have either stopped or never had interest.
Im sure we will try and move them, either now or at the deadline though.


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## JuX

I'm hoping for Ricky to have a better season, just to bring his values up and we'll see from that point.


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## Avalanche

JuX said:


> I'm hoping for Ricky to have a better season, just to bring his values up and we'll see from that point.


Pretty much, i think he may aswell play his minutes til the trade deadline... get his value up a little so an almost contending team may take a risk on him to put them over the top and give up a pick or some young talent.


----------



## JuX

My magic crystal ball said John Edwards will be among the first roster cut. When will it be? Heck, I don't even have nor own a crystal ball. Who else?


----------



## Avalanche

JuX said:


> My magic crystal ball said John Edwards will be among the first roster cut. When will it be? Heck, I don't even have nor own a crystal ball. Who else?


Definately Edwards... and apart from that, well.... with the roster as it stands the likely answer is Richard but i hope that isnt the case, i would hope we can trade away someone for maybe a trade exception.

After the pre-season it looks like Buckner will stay on the team, there is no reason for howard to be here if he doesnt want to but trying to find a trade that opens up a roster spot could be difficult.


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## JuX

Avalanche said:


> Definately Edwards... and apart from that, well.... with the roster as it stands the likely answer is Richard but i hope that isnt the case, i would hope we can trade away someone for maybe a trade exception.
> 
> After the pre-season it looks like Buckner will stay on the team, there is no reason for howard to be here if he doesnt want to but trying to find a trade that opens up a roster spot could be difficult.


We're short on the PG spot right now. Hopefully Foye and Telfair will get back before the regular season. Greg Buckner could be the point guard with Davis as an emergency back up, Jaric, too. 

It's going to be hard cutting another player from the roster. Telfair played better than Foye. I know Foye's been having problems with his knee.


----------



## Avalanche

Telfair definately isnt going anywhere, and i like how he has done in the pre-season when hes played.
Jaric talk has died down, they will probably keep him around as an emergency back up point...

i dunno, like i said richard looks like the obvious pick but really he could be a guy who could develop long term.. where as guys like howard, ratliff and buckner wont be here by the time we are a competitive team again.


----------



## JuX

What has Chris Richard done special so far?


----------



## Avalanche

JuX said:


> What has Chris Richard done special so far?


absolutely nothing 

lol

i dunno, i just think with his size and skills he could develop, he was stuck behind a stacked team in college and hasnt had a lot of game time. 
i just think itd be better taking a risk on a young guy we chose to take a reach on (yes even as a second rounder he was a reach) than let some vet put up numbers on a losing team... while not enjoying it or contributing anything of real use


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## JuX

Avalanche said:


> absolutely nothing
> 
> lol
> 
> i dunno, i just think with his size and skills he could develop, he was stuck behind a stacked team in college and hasnt had a lot of game time.
> i just think itd be better taking a risk on a young guy we chose to take a reach on (yes even as a second rounder he was a reach) than let some vet put up numbers on a losing team... while not enjoying it or contributing anything of real use


Oh, boy. This is going to be hard. We're a very young team with young players on the team strivin' for good NBA careers, not fab, but good careers. Buckner may be the one to let go. He said he's happy now do whatever he is told to do on his new team.


----------



## Avalanche

shame jarics contract is so long

looking at the roster though, really either howard or buckner could go.


----------



## Avalanche

So Jefferson was solid with 21 and 13 today, and even though we lost there was one other good sign:

Brewer exploded with 27 points (10-15) 4 rebounds 6 assists 2 steals 2 blocks


----------



## Mateo

jefferson is automatic at this point. no need to worry about giving him a max extension.


----------



## JuX

> The Wolves need to reduce their roster by Oct. 29 and have limited options other than buying at least one player out of his contract and making a two-for-one player trade, a difficult prospect at best. With the roster already loaded with forwards, Richard could be sent to the NBA development league if it becomes clear he won't play regularly to start the season.
> 
> "A lot of different things can happen," Wittman said, hinting that the team could make other decisions to clear space for Richard. "We like Chris. But if it's obvious he's not going to be part of an eight- or nine-man rotation, then it's going to be important for him to play."


http://www.startribune.com/wolves/story/1497585.html


----------



## Avalanche

JuX said:


> http://www.startribune.com/wolves/story/1497585.html


D-league players count against the 15 though dont they?


----------



## socco

Avalanche said:


> D-league players count against the 15 though dont they?


Yep, they do.


----------



## Ruff Draft

All I ask for Theo is too maybe average 6/6, and to break anyone's hands that enter the paint.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Miami is still after Ricky.


> Miami Herald -
> Pat Riley said he continues exploring upgrading Miami's roster, "but it's not easy."
> 
> A Minnesota official said Miami was among the teams it talked to about Ricky Davis.


It's a match made in heaven. Ricky hasn't played for a contender, and we can really use the expirings.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

So Davis and Blount go to Miami for Walker, Simien and Doleac...what are the odds that Walker and Howard get bought out?

Minnesota clearly wants to go to with a lineup something like Foye/Green/Brewer/Smith/Jefferson.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Howard and Antoine are packing their bags to Boston right now. Without a doubt.


----------



## UD40

Dear Mr. McHale,

Thanks!

-Heat nation.


----------



## JuX

uhh...


----------



## -33-

Thank you Mr. McHale. Enjoy Antoine, and stock up the grocery stores for the Winter.


----------



## Mateo

Horrible deal for our side. We gave up *2* desirable pieces in this deal, Ricky Davis (solid borderline-starter for a playoff team) and Theo Ratliff (huge expiring contract) and all we got out of it is Wayne freaking Simien, a guy who's now 24 and hasn't done squat in his first two years. And wasn't thought that highly of in the first place (late late first round pick). AND he plays our most stacked position, where we already got Jefferson, Smith, and Gomes who will play there some.

We gave up the only 2 decent trade pieces we had left and got nothing for it. Nothing.


----------



## JuX

Blount is traded, not Theo. I hope the Heat are willing to pay for the buyout of Walker. I don't want this worthless piece of crap on the floor at Target Center. Really, I don't understand this trade. Simien did not much, either. 

Clearing up some space was too much, I wish it could wait till the trading deadline get near or after the season.

Kevin RIP McHale:rocket:


----------



## JuX

Too much roster changes going on. It made me wonder and then something popped into my mind. Wow, in 3 short years, only one player on the current roster was on the '03-'04 season as the Midwest Division champs. Mark Madsen was on the roster 3 years ago.


----------



## socco

JuX said:


> Blount is traded, not Theo. I hope the Heat are willing to pay for the buyout of Walker. I don't want this worthless piece of crap on the floor at Target Center. Really, I don't understand this trade. Simien did not much, either.
> 
> Clearing up some space was too much, I wish it could wait till the trading deadline get near or after the season.
> 
> Kevin RIP McHale:rocket:


I heard they gave us some cash in the deal too. $3Mil is the most they could give. I think the trade makes perfect sense. Blount was going to be hard to trade because of his contract. Yet we were able to get out of that, and we picked up a 1st rounder too. The whole purpose of this trade is money. It clears up even more cap room for the 2009 summer. All we have left is Jaric, and maybe Madsen. 

I highly doubt Walker ever puts on a Wolves uniform.

I understand waiting to the deadline to get better value, but at the expense of having to deal with those two cancers all year? Better to get it over with now.


----------



## moss_is_1

I think it was a good trade for us. We got rid of Blount's terrible contact, and we cleared up playing time for our young guys. (McCants, Green, Brewer). We got a first round pick in the deal with some cash as well.


----------



## Mateo

Ok, giving up Blount is a lot better than giving up Ratliff, but still, we got absolutely nothing in terms of talent. Cap space means nothing to us, no one wants to play for us. We need actual young talent. We didn't get that, and now we only have Ratliff's contract to try and get it. And I'm willing to bet we get nothing for that too.


----------



## socco

We got a 1st rounder too. Cap space means a lot to us. That's the whole basis of this offseason. That's why James, Hassell, and now Blount were dealt. That's why we got Ratliff in a KG trade. I'm not saying we're gonna attract some top notch guys, but the plan is clearly to make a splash in the free agent market in 2009.


----------



## Avalanche

Well from a telent standpoint obviously we lost out, but that wasnt the point of this one.

So Walker once his option is turned down is a year shorter than blount... same as buckner.
Doleac and Theo explire this season.

Simien isnt a bad pick up, and hopefully the first isnt overly protected.

Release Walker and let him go to boston.


----------



## JuX

Any big names in the 2009 free agency?


----------



## Avalanche

I've drawn a total blank... i know there are a few at least

when ive got a sec ill look into it


----------



## JuX

socco said:


> I heard they gave us some cash in the deal too. $3Mil is the most they could give. I think the trade makes perfect sense. Blount was going to be hard to trade because of his contract. Yet we were able to get out of that, and we picked up a 1st rounder too. The whole purpose of this trade is money. It clears up even more cap room for the 2009 summer. All we have left is Jaric, and maybe Madsen.
> 
> I highly doubt Walker ever puts on a Wolves uniform.
> 
> I understand waiting to the deadline to get better value, but at the expense of having to deal with those two cancers all year? Better to get it over with now.


So we will basically get nothing again in the draft and free agency? With Kevin McHale, there's a 99.9% chance this team will be nothing in two years. I've lost my faith in this guy for a quite long time now. It is my favorite team, my hometown team, but it hurts.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I read today that Biedrins' signing is coming down to the wire.


----------



## Ruff Draft

What do you guys think about Sene? Seattle might bite if we swap Green for him.


----------



## Avalanche

Ruff Draft said:


> What do you guys think about Sene? Seattle might bite if we swap Green for him.


I would swap Green for him definately, both raw potential at this point but ones a center.

might leave us thin on the wings now though.


----------



## Mateo

Nah thanks. Sene and Green have both been bad so far, so it seems like a waste of time. Let's stick with what we got.


----------



## Avalanche

> Pioneer Press -
> Minnesota Vice-President of Basketball Operations Kevin McHale said he might not be done making moves. If nothing else, the Wolves have to trim at least three players off the roster to meet NBA rules. How McHale will do that remains to be seen. Another trade remains a possibility, along with waiving players and/or buying out contracts.
> 
> The deal gives the Wolves 18 players, and the regular-season roster limit is 15. McHale hinted that at least one of the players acquired in the trade will not be on the roster soon, but he wouldn't elaborate.
> 
> It wouldn't be shocking to see Doleac and/or Simien not with the team by 5 P.M. Monday, the league's deadline for teams to set their Opening Day rosters.


http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/48766/20071025/mchale_not_done_dealing/

obviously written before edwards' release, nothing we didnt really know already though


----------



## The King of the World

It's an odd feeling when your favorite team trades your favorite player and then trades for your least favorite...


----------



## Ruff Draft

We should really look at Orlando next. They could really use Jaric & Doleac.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Simien won't be making the team McHale says. I also read today that if they could find a place for Jaric & Walker that they would be gone. Well... at least he's trying.


----------



## Avalanche

Walker will likely end up cut i think, theres even less point of him being here then ricky.
Jaric should be tradable for something, even if its just to take a year of that contract


----------



## Avalanche

Grapevine tells me we are trying to make a 2 for 1 trade including howard and doleac (possibly jaric, but more unlikely).
if that trade can go through we keep walker, if not hes likely gone


----------



## jokeaward

What on God's green Earth is going on... these are two of the most unsavory trades I can remember. I almost ralphed when I say Walker wasn't expiring. And Greg Buckner?
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

I didn't really care if they fired him but WTF...

Blount can be a slacker but we wouldn't have had to buy him out... we save a bit of money in two years OMG wow.


----------



## jokeaward

Wally to Walker and scrubs? Gross.

Antoine Walker is in the category of Darius Miles in bad player awful contract, he just agreed a team option in his deal.


----------



## socco

JuX said:


> So we will basically get nothing again in the draft and free agency? With Kevin McHale, there's a 99.9% chance this team will be nothing in two years. I've lost my faith in this guy for a quite long time now. It is my favorite team, my hometown team, but it hurts.


Yeah, that's probably what will happen. Fun being a Wolves fan, isn't it.



jokeaward said:


> What on God's green Earth is going on... these are two of the most unsavory trades I can remember. *I almost ralphed when I say Walker wasn't expiring.* And Greg Buckner?
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm
> 
> I didn't really care if they fired him but WTF...
> 
> Blount can be a slacker but we wouldn't have had to buy him out... we save a bit of money in two years OMG wow.


That's irrelevant. We aren't going to sign anybody next summer anyways, so what difference does it make if he expires after this year or after next year?


----------



## Avalanche

'09 we should.... SHOULD have foye/jefferson locked up and a lot of money to bring in a star FA (if they would come here)
2 year plan, not immediate... which also gives us time to see where the other young guys are at


----------



## Ruff Draft

What about Jackie Butler guys? Houston will probably be letting him go. He showed promise a few times that I saw him. He would give us more big depth for cheap.


----------



## Avalanche

Ruff Draft said:


> What about Jackie Butler guys? Houston will probably be letting him go. He showed promise a few times that I saw him. He would give us more big depth for cheap.


I initially wanted boston to pick him up... but then i dug a bit deeper and apparently Butler thinks he's a thug ala 50 cent lol.
We would have to drop Someone else to sign him, i dont think theres a point IMO


----------



## Mateo

We have enough PFs. We need to look for centers, in case Jefferson doesn't play there.


----------



## JuX

We have 4 players who can play center.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

To complete their roster, the T-Wolves traded for, then waived Beno Udrih and used money acquired in the deal to buyout Juwan Howard's contract.

PG: Randy Foye...Sebastian Telfair...Marko Jaric
SG: Rashad McCants...Gerald Green...Greg Buckner
SF: Ryan Gomes...Corey Brewer
PF: Al Jefferson...Craig Smith...Antoine Walker...Mark Madsen
C: Theo Ratliff...Chris Richard...Michael Doleac


----------



## Mateo

JuX said:


> We have 4 players who can play center.


How many of them are:

1) Not drawing social security
2) Supposed to play center

?


----------



## Mateo

Damian Necronamous said:


> To complete their roster, the T-Wolves traded for, then waived Beno Udrih and used money acquired in the deal to buyout Juwan Howard's contract.
> 
> PG: Randy Foye...Sebastian Telfair...Marko Jaric
> SG: Rashad McCants...Gerald Green...Greg Buckner
> SF: Ryan Gomes...Corey Brewer
> PF: Al Jefferson...Craig Smith...Antoine Walker...Mark Madsen
> C: Theo Ratliff...Chris Richard...Michael Doleac


^^ Sounds about right to me. Even though that's not the rotation I'd go with, that's the one I think will probably happen, at least at first. Personally I'd go like this:

Foye / Telfair / Jaric
Green / McCants / Buckner
Gomes / Brewer
Smith / Walker / Madsen
Jefferson / Ratliff / Richard


----------



## JuX

*Wolves Excercise Options on Foye, McCants*



> The Minnesota Timberwolves today announced that the team has exercised the third-year option on guard Randy Foye and the fourth-year option on guard Rashad McCants.


http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/wolves_excercise_options_on_foye_mccants_071031.html


----------



## Ruff Draft

Seattle wants to send Sene to the D-League. We could really use him. Swapping GG for him is good for the both of us.


----------



## luther

Ruff Draft said:


> Seattle wants to send Sene to the D-League. We could really use him. Swapping GG for him is good for the both of us.


It is an interesting trade, although Sene needs some serious playing time regardless of whether he's there or here, and so D-League is probably a good idea either way. He's far worse than Ratliff at the moment, but his athleticism and shot-blocking potential are very interesting in terms of a longer-term replacement C. And Seattle, of course, with both Swift and Petro, PLUS Collison or even Wilcox who could play center in that system, have no real use for him.

I don't know if they need Green, either, though. After all, they're looking at guys like Durant, Green, Wilkins and Wally at the swing spots. Each of those four needs playing time, and Wally's already not getting a lot. I can't see Green cracking that rotation. (That said, what do I care? If Seattle wanted to do it, I'd do it in a heartbeat, especially with Green obviously not in our plans.)


----------



## Avalanche

Id do Green for Sene most definately


----------



## socco

Avalanche said:


> Id do Green for Sene most definately


Absolutely.


----------

