# ESPN Insider: Goodman Draft Mock



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...ks-center-joel-embiid-tops-2014-mock-draft-10

Here's the names for those of you without access:

01. Bucks - Embiid
02. Sixers - Parker
03. Magic - Wiggins
04. Kings - Randle
05. Jazz - Exum
06. Celts - Vonleh
07. Cavs - Aaron Gordon
08. Lakers - Ennis
09. Nuggets - James Young
10. Hornets - McDermott
11. Sixers - Hood
12. Wolves - Stauskas
13. Magic - Cauley-Stein
14. Grizz - Smart
15. Bulls - Saric
16. Hawks - Harris
17. Suns - Lavine
18. Bulls - Clarkson
19. Celts - Hairston
20. Raptors - Kyle Anderson
21. Jazz - Hezonja
22. Thunder - Selden
23. Suns - Jerami Grant
24. Rockets - Payne
25. Clippers - Christon
26. Hornets - Warren
27. Heat - Robinson III
28. Spurs - Harrell
29. Thunder - Fair
30. Suns - Capela


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I wish there were a chance that Smart slipped that low and that Boston could land him as a result. I guess he expects the Cadavaliers new GM to be better, if Grant were there he's definitely be going for McDermott.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Thoughts:

*2. Jabari Parker to Sixers* - He fits, and he doesn't. Its hard to pick nits with a guy like Parker, but I don't know if he fits the team identity that I think MCW/Noel can be the basis for. I feel like Andrew Wiggins, with his defensive tenacity, fits better here. He's more capable of dominating a game without the ball in his hands, which makes him a better fit next to MCW. But I could be convinced that Parker fits as well, because I think they both fit very well.

*5. Dante Exum to Jazz* - If Exum is everything they say he is - shouldn't he have the ball in his hands? He's supposed to be a great facilitator, and can make Magic (see what I did there?) things happen when he's got the ball. And they're saying the Jazz will take him and pair him with a point guard in Burke who thrives with the ball in his hands as well?

*10. McDermott to Hornets* - Aside from the fact that the Hornets won't be picking at the 10 spot, because Detroit is likely to slide into the Heat/Pacers steamroller in the first round of the playoffs.... Do we really think that MJ is going to allow his GM to choose a guy that bears so many similarities to Adam Morrison? Right down to the size, position, lack of athleticism, high motor, and absolutely incredible numbers. Regardless of whether they wind up the same in the NBA - there are too many similarities. MJ doesn't let it happen.

*14. Smart to Grizz* - Is Marcus Smart going to fall to 14? And if so... are the Grizz really this allergic to guys capable of shooting the ball?

*15. Saric to Bulls* - Another guy in freefall right now. I wonder where he'll wind up following the pre-draft workouts, but he was definitely called a potential top 7 pick by MANY as recently as December. I haven't heard anything about his play falling off overseas, so I'm guessing the fall has more to do with NBA GMs not seeing much of him, they'll be sending more guys overseas to scout him once the deadline passes.

*17. Lavine to Suns* - Really, I love this. Maybe they have other needs - but he's got a lot of potential to be something special. Put him on the bench as the third guard on this squad, running and shooting with Bledsoe and Dragic? Really a fantastic situation for a guy with as much potential and shooting talent as Lavine has.

*24. Payne to Rockets* - I think Daryl Morey creams himself if Payne falls this far. Payne has size, he can shoot the rock, he's basically one of the best options in this draft to pin next to Howard. I really enjoy Terrance Jones, but I think Payne would really complement those guys well. You could throw all three on the floor at once for short periods for a jumbo lineup, you could pair him with Dwight often and occasionally with Jones. He's a great fit.


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

It makes me chuckle that Cleveland may select Bennett and Gordon in back to back years. When is Kyrie available to test the free agency waters?


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

ChrisWoj said:


> *10. McDermott to Hornets* - Aside from the fact that the Hornets won't be picking at the 10 spot, because Detroit is likely to slide into the Heat/Pacers steamroller in the first round of the playoffs.... Do we really think that MJ is going to allow his GM to choose a guy that bears so many similarities to Adam Morrison? Right down to the size, position, lack of athleticism, high motor, and absolutely incredible numbers. Regardless of whether they wind up the same in the NBA - there are too many similarities. MJ doesn't let it happen.


I think he's going in the top half of the first, but I agree that it won't be the Jornets. However McDermott is far closer to Korver than Ammo. McDermott can _really_ shoot (unlike Morrison). 



ChrisWoj said:


> *15. Saric to Bulls* - Another guy in freefall right now. I wonder where he'll wind up following the pre-draft workouts, but he was definitely called a potential top 7 pick by MANY as recently as December. I haven't heard anything about his play falling off overseas, so I'm guessing the fall has more to do with NBA GMs not seeing much of him, they'll be sending more guys overseas to scout him once the deadline passes.


If the tape I've been watching is any guide I'd say it's because they _have_ been watching. He looks like Danny Ferry's bastard son. Only with much shorter arms.


----------



## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Just want one of those top 3 guys for my Bucks, and if Smarts stock is going to free fall because of this incident trade back into the lottery and scoop him too


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

roux said:


> if Smarts stock is going to free fall because of this incident trade back into the lottery and scoop him too


Honestly I don't think he gets past the Magic unless Embiid's there when they pick.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

E.H. Munro said:


> Honestly I don't think he gets past the Magic unless Embiid's there when they pick.


Most guys like Smart, who see increased scrutiny and don't improve, tend to see their stock fall. You think he goes ahead of some of the more heralded, younger, and arguably more talented frosh?


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

The lower Smart gets picked, the greater the chances that he plays his early career with a chip on his shoulder. I hope he falls.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

ChrisWoj said:


> Most guys like Smart, who see increased scrutiny and don't improve, tend to see their stock fall. You think he goes ahead of some of the more heralded, younger, and arguably more talented frosh?


Yes. They already have some talented forwards, Embiid immediately makes Pekovic a trade asset, so I can see them valuing Embiid. But Smart/Oladipo is one hell of a backcourt.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> Yes. They already have some talented forwards, Embiid immediately makes Pekovic a trade asset, so I can see them valuing Embiid. But Smart/Oladipo is one hell of a backcourt.


I really can't see them taking him over Parker or Wiggins. The top 3 is pretty set in stone right now is it not?


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I think Exum can get in the top 3.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

R-Star said:


> I really can't see them taking him over Parker or Wiggins. The top 3 is pretty set in stone right now is it not?


I think Embiid/Parker are the top 2, I think 3-6 are in flux at the moment. Parker is tough to turn down because he's going to score from day one, but others might have a bigger long-term impact. It's not like Smart is three years older than the rest of these guys, he's still a month away from his 20th birthday, so I don't think the "he's older and therefore has less upside!" argument works terribly well. In any event, I would be shocked if Smart fell all the way to 8th. The end of the lotto is out of the question.


----------



## Mrs. Thang (Apr 14, 2011)

Adreian Payne will go in the lottery. Senior prejudice is keeping him down now, but the guy is way too talented.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Mrs. Thang said:


> Adreian Payne will go in the lottery. Senior prejudice is keeping him down now, but the guy is way too talented.


I think the biggest knock on Payne is his hairline. He looks like an eighth year senior out there. He served a military career before this, right? He's like 32?


----------



## Gronehestu (Oct 9, 2013)

I'm shocked Payne is so low on many of these mocks...please explain to me what there is not to like about him? He could be a poor man's Tim Duncan

Dude is the classic NBA 4 man: he's legit 6'10", with above-the-rim athleticism. He is a strong if not always consistent rebounding force, but you know beyond any shadow of a doubt that a big man who's played for Tom Izzo will hit the ****in glass. He defends pretty well positionally, has awareness to help, keeps his hands in good, wide position to make deflections. He's not an intimidating shot-blocker, but he's decent.

Offensively, the guy is great. Has a post-up game with developing footwork. Can score with both hands. His hands are really good; I've seen him receive bad alley-oop tosses and adjust in midair to throw down. He even fumbled an alley-oop attempt one time last year in the tourney against Memphis...and still gathered the rock while in flight and was able to stuff it. You can't teach that. His shooting range has always been there and as he's earned the confidence of the coaches he's expanded it all the way out to the 3pt arc

I mean, seriously, what reason is there to not draft him top 10? He's the prototype power forward. 

Also surprised that Kyle Anderson is so low. That kid does everything well and he's almost 6'10 with athletic ability


Meanwhile guys like Aaron Gordon are talked about in the top 5. Honestly, I've only seen him play like 3 times, so I can't pass the most objective judgement. What is there to like about him? He's not that big, he can't make free throws, and his footwork is bad. What is the attraction?

Nowhere do I feel more out-of-touch with the NBA than at draft time...I watch excellent college players with developed games, polished skills and proven leadership and moxie not even appear as blips on the radar while kids who in some cases barely earn their PT in college go top 10 lol


----------



## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Gronehestu said:


> I'm shocked Payne is so low on many of these mocks...please explain to me what there is not to like about him? He could be a poor man's Tim Duncan
> 
> Dude is the classic NBA 4 man: he's legit 6'10", with above-the-rim athleticism. He is a strong if not always consistent rebounding force, but you know beyond any shadow of a doubt that a big man who's played for Tom Izzo will hit the ****in glass. He defends pretty well positionally, has awareness to help, keeps his hands in good, wide position to make deflections. He's not an intimidating shot-blocker, but he's decent.
> 
> ...


Quality fundamentals are for the WNBA dude.. the NBA is and will always be a potential/athleticism based league... which is a reason alot of guys (I assume you may be included) are so turned off by the pro game


----------



## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

Gronehestu said:


> Also surprised that Kyle Anderson is so low. That kid does everything well and he's almost 6'10


Does not move well enough to guard the perimeter so he is probably going to have to bulk up and play PF, also not good enough to dominate ball which he needs to be effective. He probably should not come out.



> with athletic ability


:hano:


----------



## Gronehestu (Oct 9, 2013)

roux said:


> Quality fundamentals are for the WNBA dude.. the NBA is and will always be a potential/athleticism based league... which is a reason alot of guys (I assume you may be included) are so turned off by the pro game


Yeah man I've definitely had that pointed out to me before, and I far prefer the college game lol...honestly I think the NBA is the worst product among all pro sports because you almost never get the best of what the top players have to offer. Usually it's just everyone standing around and then taking bad shots or everyone crashing around turning it over between bad shots. The playoffs are good

And Ender - really he's that laughably not-athletic? Yup, I'm pretty out of touch with what NBA teams want lol

You're right about Anderson dominating the ball and like Gordon, I haven't seen him on a weekly basis but he's impressed me with his all around game and mismatch potential. 

Again what is it about Aaron Gordon that everyone loves so much? Is there some elite skill he has that I haven't seen, some go-to move I've somehow missed? I just have trouble imagining how he's so much freakier a specimen than everyone else that he's so in-demand despite so many limitations

EDIT: I shouldn't have said simply 'athletic' there; that makes it sound like I'm talking about his leaping ability/bouncy-ness...I should have just said his command of a diverse skillset at his imposing size. It definitely takes tremendous athletic ability. But the coordination/control kind, not the I'm gonna leap over your shoulders and dunk on you kind.


----------



## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

Gronehestu said:


> Again what is it about Aaron Gordon that everyone loves so much?


He can guard might be the best defender in the draft but I am not that high on him very little upside offensively but thinks he can be a point.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I might have some sympathy for the "college is superior" crowd if the product weren't so shitty.

re: Gordon. I'd be shocked if he made the top 5. He profiles as a Shawn Marion type, which is still a pretty damned good player, but not a top 5 pick this year.

re: Anderson. Very fundamentally sound player. His vertical leap is probably less than Jamel's and he makes Jared Sullinger look like Josh Smith. He also isn't good enough to dominate the ball like that in the NBA. That's the sort of thing you get away with in college that just doesn't work at the next level where most of the guys have your skills _and_ better athleticism. He's probably got a career in front of him as a swing forward off the bench.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I'm curious - When I watch Payne play I see a guy that looks athletic enough for the NBA, but he looks that way against a college crowd. Does he have the NBA caliber athleticism that will allow him to thrive as a "prototype" four as @Gronehestu says? If he's short on athleticism, is he still a top 10 pick with the skills he has? I say yes, but only because I see him as a guaranteed value. If you're a bottom feeder in the east you look for the guys that are riskier high-upside plays, but if you're a western conference team that is a piece or two short (say the Hornets want another guy to stretch the floor work as a third big and eventually play next to Davis, and they luck out in the lottery and jump a couple of spots into the top-10) - he may be an ideal pick.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

E.H. Munro said:


> I might have some sympathy for the "college is superior" crowd if the product weren't so shitty.


So if it didn't suck so bad, you might say it didn't suck?


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

ChrisWoj said:


> I'm curious - When I watch Payne play I see a guy that looks athletic enough for the NBA, but he looks that way against a college crowd. Does he have the NBA caliber athleticism that will allow him to thrive as a "prototype" four as @Gronehestu says? If he's short on athleticism, is he still a top 10 pick with the skills he has? I say yes, but only because I see him as a guaranteed value. If you're a bottom feeder in the east you look for the guys that are riskier high-upside plays, but if you're a western conference team that is a piece or two short (say the Hornets want another guy to stretch the floor work as a third big and eventually play next to Davis, and they luck out in the lottery and jump a couple of spots into the top-10) - he may be an ideal pick.


I think he's the sort of "other guy on the floor" player that thrives on good teams. If you're a western conference team that just missed the playoffs and have a need for a PF, and already have your stars, then he's your guy. Aside from that I'm hoping that he falls into the late first round and ends up on a good team that could make some real use of him.


----------



## Mrs. Thang (Apr 14, 2011)

Kyle Anderson has a great skill set but he is a disaster on the perimeter defensively. I seriously think as an NBA player he should just try to get really fat and play the 4. He already moves around with the urgency of a fat guy, so I doubt it will cost him much there, and would help him defend the post. He could be like Boris Diaw.


----------



## Gronehestu (Oct 9, 2013)

Chris - as has been pointed out, I'm not so good judging things on 'NBA athleticism', cause that's something I'm sort of outta touch with lol

I do think he has above average athleticism, maybe even compared to NBA players. Again, he makes plays above the rim, he is long and knows how to use his length without fouling, he has great hands (I've seen plenty of guys with 'great' athleticism but no hands...I count hands on a big guy in the athleticism category). He might only look dominant against college guys, but his natural gifts are definitely good enough to put up serious starter's numbers in the NBA. 

By prototype, though, I mean his skillset more than any other thing. Meaning: there's nothing he doesn't do at a decent level, and hasn't that become the need for an NBA 4 man? I loved me some Charles Oakley in his heyday, but you have to be able to handle and shoot and score in multiple ways to be the guy a team builds around. 

Payne has consistent shooting range (outstanding range, really), out to the college 3pt arc and he'll keep expanding it out to NBA range. He passes pretty well, knows how to beat a double-team when his guys slash into the paint, knows to keep the ball high when he catches in the post, doesn't lose his dribble often. Good handle for such a big burly dude. He scores with his back to the hoop, and one of his very best attributes is his ability to receive a pass that doesn't really set him up to score, and with a quick slide or pivot is able to put up a quick shot. I've thought many times his shots would be block-able, but so far the only guys I've seen send his attempts back are DJ Stephens, who is a freak, and on a couple occasions AJ Hammons, who when he's motivated and aggressive can be very good because has NBA size, athleticism and skill. 

But I'm sure Payne won't do much in the NBA because, every time I become convinced that a dude I've seen over and over dominate on the college level is going to be a great as a pro, they just end up being average lol

One thing to keep in mind - I hate Michigan St, so I'm not paying Payne compliments because I like the guy. I hope we kick his ass every time we see him...but the reality is that the dude is awesome.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Gronehestu said:


> Chris - as has been pointed out, I'm not so good judging things on 'NBA athleticism', cause that's something I'm sort of outta touch with lol
> 
> I do think he has above average athleticism, maybe even compared to NBA players. Again, he makes plays above the rim, he is long and knows how to use his length without fouling, he has great hands (I've seen plenty of guys with 'great' athleticism but no hands...I count hands on a big guy in the athleticism category). He might only look dominant against college guys, but his natural gifts are definitely good enough to put up serious starter's numbers in the NBA.
> 
> ...


One thing you said there is key to his current status in the draft - you say he could put up serious starters numbers in the NBA. He can be a very good starter. The thing that is in the way of his going high is the fact that most teams in the top 10 are abysmal. If a team feels like they've got the base pieces in place despite their final record (like a New Orleans) will grab him, but other teams tend to swing for the fences in the top 10. This depresses his value in the draft, if not his value in the league as a player.


----------



## Gronehestu (Oct 9, 2013)

ChrisWoj said:


> One thing you said there is key to his current status in the draft - you say he could put up serious starters numbers in the NBA. He can be a very good starter. The thing that is in the way of his going high is the fact that most teams in the top 10 are abysmal. If a team feels like they've got the base pieces in place despite their final record (like a New Orleans) will grab him, but other teams tend to swing for the fences in the top 10. This depresses his value in the draft, if not his value in the league as a player.


Definitely a good point you and Munro have made; in a lot of cases it's good that these more polished college guys do land on quality teams because then they'll get the chance to play 'their' game. Better than having to do the ridiculous in order to be counted as a contributor. I'm always happy to see something like Kawhi Leonard landing in San Antonio.


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Watching this Louisville/UConn game, and Harrell is being extremely undervalued. Dude has a long reach, and is shooting over 60% from the floor.


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Wiggins with 41 today as well, albeit in a loss. Once he gets more consistent and stronger he is going to be very scary.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

bball2223 said:


> Watching this Louisville/UConn game, and Harrell is being extremely undervalued. Dude has a long reach, and is shooting over 60% from the floor.


I think the real fear with Harrell is the measurements. He's listed at 6'8" but might not be anything near that tall.


----------

