# Semi-OT Did the Raps Make A Mistake?



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

They Could've Had A Lineup of

PG Marcus Williams (trade 1st overall down to 8-15)
SG Fred Jones
SF Morris Peterson
PF Villanueva
C Bosh

but ended up

PG TJ Ford
SG Fred Jones
SF Morris Peterson
PF Bosh/Bargnani
C Nesterovic

They would've saved on their rookie, kept a decent big man.

so basically:

TJ + Bargnani compared to Marcus Williams + Villanueva?
(and if you think its too early to compare the two rookies, don't post)


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Lets give it more then 3 games. 

Bosh is a power forward, not a center. Bargnani has more potential at the five spot then Charlie. The Raptors were trying to pick up Marcus Williams on draft day, but had no success in getting an extra pick. You don't trade the #1 overall pick....you just don't do it!


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## Waukee (Jul 14, 2006)

billfindlay10 said:


> Lets give it more then 3 games.
> 
> Bosh is a power forward, not a center. Bargnani has more potential at the five spot then Charlie. The Raptors were trying to pick up Marcus Williams on draft day, but had no success in getting an extra pick. You don't trade the #1 overall pick....you just don't do it!


 I don't think Andrea Bargnani has more potential than Charlie Villanueva. Neither are a centers and neither would be much better than the other at filling the position. The Raptors were trying to move up for Williams but they couldn't find a taker.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Andrea has a future at the 5 spot.....way more then Charlie would of had with Toronto. We played Charlie at the 3 last year. 

Bargs will be the center of the future for Toronto in years to come.


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## Waukee (Jul 14, 2006)

billfindlay10 said:


> Andrea has a future at the 5 spot.....way more then Charlie would of had with Toronto. We played Charlie at the 3 last year.
> 
> Bargs will be the center of the future for Toronto in years to come.


 I don't think Bargnani is anymore a natural C than Villanueva is. They are both soft defenders and not really heavy...although Bargnani being 7'0" is 2 inches taller than Villanueva.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

7'0" and 250lbs is not that light for a first year player.....he is working on his low post game....witch will only get better. Bargnani will be a center in the mold of Vlade, but will be a better athlete, and a tougher match on offense.


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## Waukee (Jul 14, 2006)

billfindlay10 said:


> 7'0" and 250lbs is not that light for a first year player.....he is working on his low post game....witch will only get better. Bargnani will be a center in the mold of Vlade, but will be a better athlete, and a tougher match on offense.


 Since he was not measured at the draft camp he didn't have an official weight. I don't think he's 250 pounds yet. I think he's more around 235 pounds or so. ESPN.com and a few other places have him at 225 pounds. I watched him play a little last week and there is no way he's 250. 

Vlade Divac? I don't see the comparison at all...just seems like a random Euro-comparison.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

jasonskills said:


> They Could've Had A Lineup of
> 
> PG Marcus Williams (trade 1st overall down to 8-15)
> SG Fred Jones
> ...


Stop the love in with Marcus Williams. The guy has sucked so far,


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I don't think that Raps have made a mistake so far. You can't think about this trade without include another two moves:

Bonner+EWill for Nesterovic and Hoffa for Humphries and Whaley (waived);

It means that they've replaced Hoffa with Nesterovic and Bonner with Humphries...

So, why did I talk about this two moves?

The Rasho trade (the other was a complementary one) bring a veteran C that can give Raps an insurance to Bargnani struggles as a rookie, so they avoided Bargs from being on the fire like Babcock did with Hoffa. Having Nesterovic in the middle allows Sam Mitchell to bring Andrea off the bench, while giving him some time to learn the NBA game...

Also, add the fact that TJ Ford have a friendship with Bosh, and it makes even more sense from a Raptors perspective!


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

I don't really care that we didnt draft M Williams, but I do think the Raptors made a huge mistake by trading CV for TJ Ford.

I'll be blunt: TJ has sucked for the Raps so far. His stats are hollow.

I was at last nights game vs the Hawks, and TJ finished with 17 points and 11 assists, but he was painful to watch. Embarassing.

I was shocked at how poorly he played. Missing easy layups, throwing wild passes, he was an out of control train. The defenders know what hes going to do out there. I thought TJ was going to be better than this, I really did.

CV is the man. Really miss him in Toronto. We don't need TJ. And now that we're paying him $8 million a year we're screwed. Calderon is easily the better player, and should be starting at PG. No question.

We should have traded the #1 pick and our 2nd rounder in a 3 way for something like the 6th overall and something in the 20 range. 

Would have been better off with Rudy Gay or Randy Foye and Rondo or Williams to back up Calderon.

Bottom line is Calderon has been fantastic, has a tonne of confidence after leading Spain to the World Championship, and should be getting the bulk of the minutes.

Or hell, if we still had our hearts set on Bargnani, we still could have drafted him and traded CV, but we should have been able to get more than TJ freaking Ford for him.

Enjoy CV, he's going to have a much greater career than the overrated TJ Ford.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Waukee said:


> Since he was not measured at the draft camp he didn't have an official weight. I don't think he's 250 pounds yet. I think he's more around 235 pounds or so. ESPN.com and a few other places have him at 225 pounds. I watched him play a little last week and there is no way he's 250.
> 
> Vlade Divac? I don't see the comparison at all...just seems like a random Euro-comparison.


At Raptors camp he was 251 lbs....all the old reports were from last year.

Vlade is not a random Euro comparison. Vlade had range and is off very similar size. If you read the whole post, I said Bargneni will be a better athlete then Divac. Do I think he will be a Dirk...no....do I think he will be a Gasol....no......do I think he will be a Vlade....no.....do I think he will has a similar, but not exact game as these guys, yes.


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

Bargnani is 7foot 250 pounds those were the words that came out of his mouth on draft night and I believe him more than anyone. Vlade is a much better passer. Bargnani is a much better scorer. So I think hes more similar to Dirk than Vlade. That being said he still has the body n shotblocking ability of a Center


If williams and Bargnani each played 40 minutes a night theyd look sumthin like this:

Williams: 15 6 and 5apg shooting 35% (5TO)
Bargnani: 19 8 and 2bpg shooting 41% (6PF)

So you see why Bargnanis not getting the nessesary playing time (Foul Trouble - happens with lots of big men). I think these two cancel eachother out although I do believe Bargnani has more potential

I think TJ and Charlie V are playing about the same right now.That will for sure change with the injury to CV3 but TJ brings something to the Raptors that Marcus could not. A more veteran like mentality and playoff experience. Averaging nearly 8 assists hes top 5 or 6 in the leage in assists. He was also a major part of the reason bosh decided to resign with us.. 

So no I dont think the Raps made a mistake.

Edit: 26 points 18 assists and 5 rebounds on 10 - 16 shooting and only 2 turn overs last night for TJ.  thanks milwuakee!


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