# Barkley on D'Antoni - The Suns Played Sissy Ball



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

> Mike D'Antoni chose not to get into a verbal firefight with Charles Barkley over the TNT analyst's comment that D'Antoni's Phoenix teams played "sissy ball." "I have my thoughts, but I'm not going to say anything," D'Antoni said before the Knicks played the Heat Saturday night. "I don't win with that one. He gets to talk every day, I don't. So I'll let that one go." D'Antoni did acknowledge that it's not the first time that Barkley has ripped his style of play. When D'Antoni coached the Suns, Barkley, a Phoenix-area resident, used to criticize the Suns' lack of defense. "More than once," D'Antoni said, laughing. "But that's his deal. He's an entertainer." Thursday night, Barkley went after D'Antoni ball again when he discussed the Knick coach's former team during a Suns-Lakers telecast.
> 
> "Just for the record (former Suns coach) Terry Porter got the shaft," Barkley said. "They brought him in to make the team play defense, but the players gave up, they did not want to play defense. As a player, players want to play like this. The great teams always play defense, but most players just want to run up and down the court. The Suns have played sissy ball for the last few years. It's fun to watch, it's exciting, but they don't have those types of players (who can play defense)."


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...mike_dantoni_wont_bark_back_at_charles_b.html

This current Knick team does not play anything remotely close to defense, and this is why they continue to blow leads, and look like idiots down the stretch, oh and they are soft. I been saying this since we hired this guy, unless you bring in a defensive specialist he is not going to get us too far even if we are able to sign top free agent in the off season. I like his offense, but he better do something about this defense....otherwise we will continue to be on the outside looking in.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*When Walsh signed Dantoni....*
I thought more Knick-Fans would've looked at Dantoni and saw the samething Barley saw....NO DEFENSE....NO Shotblocking Bigman to dominate the paint....and no big games won. 

I guess it was only a few of us that was unsatisfied with the signing of coach Dantoni.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*You guys see what you want to see*

Feel free to ignore the facts...like always. Suns were always top 10 in FG% against. Not all teams have shot blockers and even of the ones that do not all are good defensive teams. Conversely, not all good defensive teams have shot blockers. Any team that has Nash and Amare cannot be a great defensive team. The Knicks were blessed with Harrington, Lee, Nate, TT, JC, Curry, Zach etc. This is not going to be a good defensive teamno matter who coaches it. I get that its your preference to be a lock down team. The real truth is that no matter what kind of defense you play, you don't win without very good players..which we do not have. Bobcats are top 6 in defense...have a shot blocker....and are the proud owners of 25 wins. Smart play wins and if you check the rosters of the better teams the one constant is talent. The best team in the league is in the middle as far as defense...Lakers. Is Jackson a bad coach? Does he ignore defense?


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## Dean the Master (Feb 19, 2006)

I don't think any coaches ignore defense. They are not stupid, there is a reason they are coaching in the big league. Most of the time, they adjust their style of play to fit the players they have on the roster. When D'Antoni was coaching the Suns, there wasn't really a player who excels in defensive plays. Everybody was a shooting, a scoring machine. Therefore, in order to win games, Mike decided to do the run and gun style of play so that they can win games.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

coaches dont have to teach defense.... there is nothing to learn when playing defense. Its all about effort on the players part. If anything you have to bring in players who want to play defense


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

The whole "Mike D'Antoni doesn't preach defense" routine is tired and old and is only played out by imbeciles who don't understand that more points scored on more possessions does not equal poor defense. Last season the Suns ranked tenth in opponents' points per possession at 1.166. This year they rank at nineteenth in the league. Not that much has changed between this year and last year. The biggest thing is these talking heads that are hired by the likes of T.N.T. and E.S.P.N. are mostly incompetent when it comes down to analyzing the game. The more competent ones all get fired for not being interesting enough and these guys that get hired all have their sheep because they're charismatic dolts.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> The whole "Mike D'Antoni doesn't preach defense" routine is tired and old and is only played out by imbeciles who don't understand that more points scored on more possessions does not equal poor defense.


Yes but always allowing other teams to shoot over 50% FG is bad defense. Also saying we allow teams to have more possessions is not true. We are actually a very slow, half court based team. Rare for us to get into transition. Not saying Dantoni is to blame, but we are a very bad defensive team.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Sorry, I was specifically referring to the Suns as of last year. I don't think that results can be had from his tenure with the Knicks since it's been one season and there's really nothing to compare it to results wise.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> Sorry, I was specifically referring to the Suns as of last year. I don't think that results can be had from his tenure with the Knicks since it's been one season and there's really nothing to compare it to results wise.


O sorry thought you were talking about te knicks lol.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

No sweat.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Truknicksfan said:


> Yes but always allowing other teams to shoot over 50% FG is bad defense. Also saying we allow teams to have more possessions is not true. We are actually a very slow, half court based team. Rare for us to get into transition. Not saying Dantoni is to blame, but we are a very bad defensive team.


Thank you, and yes I'm talking about _this_ current team. I'll repeat we must improve our defense, otherwise it we will always be a team that has offensive fire power, but can't make stops when we need them, and that's been evident all season long, a blind man can see that.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Kitty...*

I don't really see this team....as constructed.....ever play good defense. There are simply too many players who cannot, or will not, play it. All it takes is 2 guys like that and we have at least 3 in almost any line up. Lee, Harrington, and Nate do not get it done. There is almost always 2 of these guys on the court.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

The net P.E.R. against is currently at 18.0 for the Knicks this year. So far this year the Knicks P.E.R. against is at 18.1. Take into to account that the Knicks traded away Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph, numbers one and two respectively in P.E.R. against on the team, and got back Al Harrington and Tim Thomas and it's a considerable improvement over last year. Before you go saying that those two players could have put up worse defensive numbers than last year, Crawford's P.E.R. against was down 1.5 points and Randolph's was up .9 points. Assuming Harrington and Thomas are replaced with Crawford and Randolph and both players put up the same productivity they did last year, that would put the Knicks at a 17.7 P.E.R. against. Assuming both players put up the same numbers they did this year throughout the rest of the season, that would put the Knicks at a 17.6 P.E.R. against. Assuming these players put up the same numbers they are on their current teams, the Knicks would also have a 17.6 P.E.R. against. Any way it is sliced, the Knicks are better defensively than they were last year and it's mostly with the same personnel if it hasn't actually gotten worse.

Any blind man can see that the Knicks are not a good defensive team, and any peon can see that it's not due to the coaching, it is because of the personnel. The team wasn't good defensively last year and while they're better this year, there is a peak to what the current team can do. They need a center. They've needed one since Marcus Camby was traded. They still do not have one, and until they are able to acquire one or even a player that can pass as a center, they will suck defensively. Now let's all cross our fingers and hope Hasheem Thabeet somehow drops into the Knicks laps somehow.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: You guys see what you want to see*



alphaorange said:


> Feel free to ignore the facts...like always. Suns were always top 10 in FG% against. Not all teams have shot blockers and even of the ones that do not all are good defensive teams. Conversely, not all good defensive teams have shot blockers. Any team that has Nash and Amare cannot be a great defensive team. The Knicks were blessed with Harrington, Lee, Nate, TT, JC, Curry, Zach etc. This is not going to be a good defensive teamno matter who coaches it. I get that its your preference to be a lock down team. The real truth is that no matter what kind of defense you play, you don't win without very good players..which we do not have. Bobcats are top 6 in defense...have a shot blocker....and are the proud owners of 25 wins. Smart play wins and if you check the rosters of the better teams the one constant is talent. The best team in the league is in the middle as far as defense...Lakers. Is Jackson a bad coach? Does he ignore defense?



alot of what you say is true ...but...the suns were and the knicks are greatly helped on defense by getting the opposing teams to play a bit faster than they are used to.

its not a style that is very successful in the playoffs because the games always slow down there and teams dont allow themselves to throw away possessions like they do when they face uptempo teams during the reg. season.

without truly being a good defensive team and versatile enough to beat teams at slower paces, no d'antoni team will win a title...no matter his coaching ability or who his players are.

thats what i see.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

if the knicks weren't a run and gun team, they wouldn't have half the wins they have now


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> if the knicks weren't a run and gun team, they wouldn't have half the wins they have now


Knicks are actually one of the slowest teams in the NBA. Just because Mik Dantoni is our coach people assume we run, however we do not.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Truknicksfan said:


> Knicks are actually one of the slowest teams in the NBA. Just because Mik Dantoni is our coach people assume we run, however we do not.


um.. the knicks are the 2nd fastest paced team in the nba.


http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/o_pace.htm

its a 7 second or less offense ...not really run and gun.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

Dosnt that only show possesion amounts? That could be the result of many things. Like our inability to play defense,(so we get the ball back in a hurry) and the fact that we have so many chuckers. If you watch all the games as I do, they do not push the ball. Duhon normally walks the ball up the court. Dantoni actully said in one of his postgame conferences( along the lines of) "we are actually not a running team, we havent been that type of team all year". Several weeks ago.


Maybe fast as in early in shot clock because we chuck, but not a "run and gun" like the suns were.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> um.. the knicks are the 2nd fastest paced team in the nba.
> 
> 
> http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/o_pace.htm
> ...


*Lets get this right....*the Dantoni Knicks are a team u could score 110 points on any given night. 

We always had Nate the Great fast transition game (ask the Tazman)....it's just that Crawful, Marbury, Zach, and Curry always slowed it down to a half-court offense.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Whatever its worth*

The more Duhon, Q.Rich, and Jefferies play for coach Dantoni the less defensive effort we been seeing out of the three players. The little bit of defense we used to get from David Lee has disapeared completely playing under coach Dantoni (now I understand how the Suns are winning without "Amare & Nash). 

*This is what I witnessed out of the Knicks vs Miami game:*

We just traded for Larry Hughes whom is known for his best defensive-effort alongside of Jared Jefferies....when u put Duhon into their mix u have a Defensive-Trio at PG, SG, and SF that knows how to defend on the switch (we started these 3 defensive players together vs Miami)....how the hell did D.Wade score 24 points in 12 minutes on a team that used a defensive trio in the start of the first and third Qtr. to get a 16 point lead.....and then dont use that same defensive-trio in none of the 4th quarter while losing a 15 point 4th Qtr. lead. 
And the non-use of Wilcox have to be on everyones mind....we need his rebounding and fouls in the first half or second half of a game....what we dont commit fouls to slow down the clock at the end of a quarter? 

*I'm sorry....but that's [email protected] coaching for a team of players who have confidence in their Head-Coach....they may not have had any confidence in coach Isiah Thomas....but I doubt if Isiah would have sold them out like this.*


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Truknicksfan said:


> Dosnt that only show possesion amounts? That could be the result of many things. Like our inability to play defense,(so we get the ball back in a hurry) and the fact that we have so many chuckers. If you watch all the games as I do, they do not push the ball. Duhon normally walks the ball up the court. Dantoni actully said in one of his postgame conferences( along the lines of) "we are actually not a running team, we havent been that type of team all year". Several weeks ago.
> 
> 
> Maybe fast as in early in shot clock because we chuck, but not a "run and gun" like the suns were.


the suns were never a run and gun team , they ran and still do run a very quick but efficient offense ...there is a differnce.

the warriors maybe a run and gun team because they like to fast break as much as possible ...D'antoni preaches a more responsible approach.

last year they had 96.6 possesions a game ...the knicks currently have 97.3...the knicks play faster.

if the suns ran it up but the knicks walk it up ...how is that possible the knicks go through more possesions a game....

the knicks last season had 91.5 possessions a game with zach and jamal ...2 guys who liked putting up shots early in the shot clock.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*One possibilty, Grinch*

Our defense gives up quick baskets, there is no doubt about that. I think pace is only one factor of the number of possessions. We also foul a lot which stops the clock. I'm not arguing either side but I think these are real factors.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> the suns were never a run and gun team , they ran and still do run a very quick but efficient offense ...there is a differnce.
> 
> the warriors maybe a run and gun team because they like to fast break as much as possible ...D'antoni preaches a more responsible approach.
> 
> ...


There are many ways to go through more possesions a game without being a really fast team. Im not saying we go through all 24 seconds of our shot clock, but we are a half cout team, no doubt. I see it with my own eyes.

Also the knicks are 21st in the NBA in fastbreak points. I think thats a more telling stat then possesions. All im saying is this not the type of offense we expected before the season started.....


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Truknicksfan said:


> There are many ways to go through more possesions a game without being a really fast team. Im not saying we go through all 24 seconds of our shot clock, but we are a half cout team, no doubt. I see it with my own eyes.
> 
> Also the knicks are 21st in the NBA in fastbreak points. I think thats a more telling stat then possesions. All im saying is this not the type of offense we expected before the season started.....



the suns are really a half court team too, they just have far better finishers when they do run


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> the suns are really a half court team too, they just have far better finishers when they do run


We never run though, thats the point.


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