# Looking at the Denver pick



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Now that we have started to see some return on the Vince Carter trade - Joey Graham of course - let's turn our attention to the other piece of that trade, the Denver pick.

People have been writing that pick off after Denver surged forward late in the season. They certainly did improve last year but have they improved a lot this offseason? They just acquired Hodge, Ricky Sanchez, and Linas Kleiza in the draft. I don't know about you but I don't see any of those guys taking the Nugz to the next level. 

Next comes free agency- I'm sure they'll make an addition but again, it won't be a first tier player. 

So let's just take a quick look at their main competition; forget about contending for the western thrown, I'm talking about making playoffs. (that reminds me, is the pick protected at all?) Last year they finished 7th in the West with 49 wins, is it likely they duplicate that or better it? 

I don't think I'd put money on them reaching 49 wins next year. There are just too many hungry teams looking to make big strides next season that should have the firepower to do so. The Clippers, Korolev producing or not, finally look ready to make a move; Utah, with Deron at the helm will definitely have their sights set on the playoffs; don't count out KG and the t-wolves; Bynum producing or not I'd bet on the Lakers making it back to the dance; Portland is a wild card but you never know how they could come together under the right coach; Golden State is a playoff lock in my mind. Both conferences have lower echelon teams developing at alarming rates.

So where does this leave Denver and our pick? It's an impossible thing to predict but I think we can conjecture that they won't be one of the best teams in the league next year. In fact, I think I can argue that their chances of making the playoffs aren't much better than ours- leaving us with a very tasty pick indeed. I'd guess the pick will be in the 15-20 range.

Is it great return for Vince Carter? Probably not. But if Babcock can pull out another draft next year like he did this year, we're going to be a whole lot better without him (as we already are).


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I definately think Golden State and Utah will surge past Denver next season. Hopefully Minnesota can do the same. I'm not too sure about the Lakers at this point, but I can only hope.

Last year the Nuggets struggled to start the season, but after George Karl took over as head coach they really started playing some good basketball. They took a lot of teams by surprise, but I don't think they'll be able to do the same next season. I expect them to end up with about 45 wins at the most. 

Hopefully that'll be enough for us to have another mid 1st round pick.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

15-20 seems pretty optimistic. If Denver manages to get a good free agent, someone like Larry Hughes or whoever they are interested in, they should be a 50-win team. George Karl had them playing great basketball at the end of the year, as much as it pains me to admit that Karl does anything worthwhile. I think we should be anticipating that pick to be in the 20-25 range, IMHO.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I think they are a 50 win team.

Ideally they trade Melo, get a whole bunch of injuries and suck.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I think they are a 50 win team.
> 
> Ideally they trade Melo, get a whole bunch of injuries and suck.


:gopray:


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Yeah I think Denver's a 50 win team next season. Don't see our pick any higher than 23 or so.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Utah and Golden State better than Denver next year? LOL. Not gonna happen. With Karl there, plus their inside muscle, they are 50 wins. I think they'll win their division next season.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

HKF said:


> Utah and Golden State better than Denver next year? LOL. Not gonna happen. With Karl there, plus their inside muscle, they are 50 wins. I think they'll win their division next season.


Thats what I was thinking too. I think your really underrated Denver Skywalker. I think they are a 50 win team, and that doesn't include them signing any free agents; which they should accomplish. Had they not ran into the Spurs this year, I think you would be talking a lot more highly of them.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

50 wins is a good estimate, unless Camby gets injured for the entire season, which isn't such a longshot. They played great ball last season and keep in mind they didn't have their sharpshooter, Voshon Lenard (even though they partially replaced him with Person). Lenard's a better player, DeMarr Johnson played solid but not spectacular, and I honestly feel Julius Hodge can make an impact. His body might not be ready to start 82 games, but he has the skills to contribute immediately off the bench. I think Denver will improve with his all-around skills and he would be a good fit with Boykins on the floor. I'm guessing the pick will be right around where it was this year.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I'm telling you, they're going to have their work cut out for them to win 50 games. I guess a lot depends on Carmelo's development- can he take his game and his team to the next level? I guess we'll find out. 

In today's league you just don't know who's going to rise above. 

Would have been nice if a few more kids had pulled out of the draft, in favour of the next, but who am I to complain (having landed Ukic at 41).


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

Denver had a great run with George Karl to end the season. They had the talent, and the coach really solidified everything. 

Camby is the big question mark ... as he is often injured. He's a good defensive anchor. I'm guessing he's going to be out 1/2 the season. Losing Elson would hurt them ... not sure if he's leaving though. I would expect this pick to be in the 20-25 range with these factors included. They are lock for the playoffs next year.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Teams that should finish with a better record than Denver:

Miami
Detroit
Indiana
SanAntonio
Phoenix
Dallas
Houston

So I think the worst the pick will be is 23/24. 

Seattle and Sacramento are wildcards out west and could beat them out. Lakers, Clips, and Golden State will be better. Tough to get wins out west.

And one East team should jump up and surprise this year. Chicago, Cleveland, Washington, or NJ could have a nice year.

Denver has solid talent, but not dominant talent. Wouldn't take much for them to have a fall right out of the playoffs.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

It really doesn't depend on Carmelo Anthony as much as Marcus Camby. If he has a healthy season and playoffs that team could make it to the Western Conference Finals, if he's hurt, they won't win 50 games and they're one-and-done again.

Golden State won't be better than them either way.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The key point is, Raptors fans have to pray for the team to have a bad season, but I think it's more probable they win their division then miss the playoffs.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

It's looking like that pick might have negative value. 2006 looks like a weak draft year, and the new age limit means there will be no high schoolers or euro phenoms. A early-mid 20s pick has a good chance to be a scrub who won't even make the team, but will soak up cap space with his guaranteed contract.

However there's still a chance that Denver self destructs and misses the playoffs. It's a long shot though. I don't mind rooting against Denver though .


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Ballyhoo said:


> It's looking like that pick might have negative value. 2006 looks like a weak draft year, and the new age limit means there will be no high schoolers or euro phenoms. A early-mid 20s pick has a good chance to be a scrub who won't even make the team, but will soak up cap space with his guaranteed contract.
> 
> However there's still a chance that Denver self destructs and misses the playoffs. It's a long shot though. I don't mind rooting against Denver though .



Is that the deal with the age limit? Can you draft 18 year olds and keep them in europe, send them to college, or to the NBDL? Or can you not touch them? Is a guy like Aleksandrov going to be eligible? 

Anyways, if you look at current mock drafts (because they're always so accurate of course), you can see us landing a good shooting guard like Rudy Fernandez with the Denver pick. Probably not going to land us a superstar but it should give us a player.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The second round may be garbage next year but there should certainly be enough first round talent. A weak looking draft pool will also encourage a few more underclassmen to declare early and sneak into the first round.

With two picks we could possibly move down, or trade one pick to a team without a first rounder for a future first.

There will be so many FAs from this draft to follow as well. Guys who went undrafted but will be playing in Europe or NBDL.

At least we have options.


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## PurpleNation (Jun 19, 2005)

Is the Denver pick lottary protected? I think that the Denver will be hard pressed to make the playoffs in the West given all the other teams they will be competing against. I will be praying for their demise.

Peace.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

It's top 5 protected.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I thought it was top 2.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Depending on where our pick is, package it to get Shelden.

:clap:


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

no


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Ballyhoo said:


> It's looking like that pick might have negative value. 2006 looks like a weak draft year, and the new age limit means there will be no high schoolers or euro phenoms. A early-mid 20s pick has a good chance to be a scrub who won't even make the team, but will soak up cap space with his guaranteed contract.
> 
> 
> However there's still a chance that Denver self destructs and misses the playoffs. It's a long shot though. I don't mind rooting against Denver though .


I agree best to try to package the pick with guys we want to get rid of (i.e Aa & E Williams and Murray) for 1 decent player in return.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Depending on where our pick is, package it to get Shelden.
> 
> :clap:


Yeah no. I was all for Shelden this year with the 16th pick but the frontcourt should no longer be an issue as we move forward. They may not be dominant this year but it very much looks like we have our uptempo frontcourt AND our bruiser already in place. I wouldn't complain if we landed the Landlord somehow but he doesn't look like the ideal target at this point (which should be a franchise SG IMO).


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Yeah no. I was all for Shelden this year with the 16th pick but the frontcourt should no longer be an issue as we move forward. They may not be dominant this year but it very much looks like we have our uptempo frontcourt AND our bruiser already in place. I wouldn't complain if we landed the Landlord somehow but he doesn't look like the ideal target at this point (which should be a franchise SG IMO).


Ah, drafting for need again instead of BPA.

We'll see who the best player out of next draft will be.

And as for a secure frontcourt, Bosh and a rook does not exactly secure it but you know, I could be wrong.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Who says Etan Thomas, I mean Shelden Williams, would be the best player available.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Who says Etan Thomas, I mean Shelden Williams, would be the best player available.



Unless the raps win the Lotto, I see them picking 10-14.

I don't think you will see Rudy Gay in that range.

Unless someone emerges that is unforeseen, the draft will be frontcourt heavy.

As for the Etan comparison, Shelden is a better shooter and scorer. But even if his downside comparison is Etan, is that a bad thing? If Etan was my 3rd or 4th front man I'd be pretty pleased.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> We'll see who the best player out of next draft will be.


I see Rodney Carney, unless he has a very good year; which is expected.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Now that we have started to see some return on the Vince Carter trade - Joey Graham of course - let's turn our attention to the other piece of that trade, the Denver pick.
> 
> People have been writing that pick off after Denver surged forward late in the season. They certainly did improve last year but have they improved a lot this offseason? They just acquired Hodge, Ricky Sanchez, and Linas Kleiza in the draft. I don't know about you but I don't see any of those guys taking the Nugz to the next level.
> 
> ...



I thought I'd come through and give you a Nuggets fan perspective, so hopefully that might add to your discussion a little. 

First of all, I doubt the pick is protected. It wasn't protected when we traded it to New Jersey and with the success the Nuggets have had the past two seasons, I assume New Jersey didn't protect it. 

Second, Hodge should have a pretty big impact this year if we don't land a top tier shooting guard via sign and trade or a trade. He brings perimeter defense and playmaking in that backcourt which is something that is very much needed from our shooting guard position. If he defies all the critics and shoots the ball well, he'll get 25 minutes a night, I would think. Kleiza probably won't contribute this year (barring a major trade) and Sanchez will play either overseas or in the NBDL for at least two years before he makes an impact. 


Free agency - obviously, the Nuggets will add someone to help them out in the backcourt. Finley has been mentioned and would be a nice fit, as would Bobby Simmons. I believe we have under five million to work with though, so barring a sign and trade, our options are limited. Antonio Daniels and Flip Murray are options, but I don't see Antonio wanting to take a possible backup role (or playing less than 30 minutes a game) and I'm not sure that Flip plays enough defense to fit into our system. We also might consider adding a guy like Kyle Korver who could really help with his three point shooting. That said, he brings little else to the table. Jaric and Kittles are also possibilities. 

All that said, I see us adding Finley. He'll come at an affordable price and fits in nicely. He'll be a big boost to the team. 

How much will we win next year? Well, if we got 49 last season, we'll get a guaranteed 50 this year. We've got a whole offseason under Karl and another year for these players to mesh. Carmelo should be improved this year and we'll actually be playing under a system for the entire year. 

Honestly, I think there is almost no chance we don't make the playoffs this year. This team can almost get by on talent alone and with Karl at the helm, it'd be very hard for us to have a slip-up. 

I'd say your pick will fall somewhere between 22 and 25.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

Just to settle the protection status (although I agree it is a moot point).

http://www.realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php#toronto



> Toronto is owed a future first-round pick from Denver. Top-5 protected in 2006, top-2 protected in 2007, unprotected in 2008. This pick was originally traded to New Jersey in the Kenyon Martin deal.


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> I don't think you will see Rudy Gay in that range.


Agreed. Early days, but Rudy looks like he's top 5 material.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> I'd say your pick will fall somewhere between 22 and 25.


This is where I've been thinking since we Karl took that team to an insane record since his hire.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

bump

(ha, I knew blowup wasn't arguing that the Denver pick could land us a lotto pick)

Anyways, just thought I'd bump this thread now that the Western conference is starting to take shape. Jazz made a move that didn't make them much better. Sacramento acquired Bonzi, which I think will make them a little more dangerous. The Clippers add Mobley.

And the Nuggets haven't done much of anything...yet. The guys I'm worried about them getting are the amnesty buyout candidates, Michael Finley most of all. Right now it looks like they're being patient with their money and it could pay off quite hansomely: I expect them to get one of Finley, Spreewell, or Houston. Kleiza and Hodge were pretty solid in summer league. Are they the division favourites at this point? 

I guess that will depend largely on what Minnesota, Portland, and Seattle do over the next couple of weeks. The Jazz are definitely in the mix too but I don't see any major additions going their way...unless they steal the Lithuanian sensation away from the Cavs.

Spreewell is a goner in Minnesota but I wouldn't be suprised if Mccants is the better player next year. I also wouldn't be suprised if a guy like Finley or Houston came to play with KG for a couple years. I definitely don't see KG missing the playoffs two years in a row, unless his knee really starts bothering him. Ebi wasn't too impressive with his summer play but he's getting closer to contributing. Griffin will be back and at this point in his career I wouldn't be suprised to see a lot of improvement.

Portland is probably a lot more ready to compete than people give them credit for but they could probably do with a veteran shooting guard...somehow I'm thinking it won't be Spreewell. They also have some major trade potential. I think they're done their asset collection and management should be looking toward the playoffs again.

Seattle's a big question mark after all their success last season. They still have money to spend, even after giving out so much to Ray Ray. Looks like Radman is going to take the qualifying offer so that leaves them with plenty to address their other needs. Are Swift and Collison going to start playing big minutes. Who do they end up with by the end of the summer? 

Then you've got the Deron Williams led Jazz. Can he have a big rookie season and get the usually consistant Jazz back to the playoffs? If Kirilenko and Boozer are healthy all season I certainly wouldn't be suprised.

Where does that leave the Nuggets? Is Melo going to be one of the league's best small forwards next year? Is Camby going to stay healthy? Lots of question marks in Denver too.

I'm still hopeful that this pick can land us a pick in the teens. Am I fooling myself? 

OT- I'm happy to see that the Nets have lost their own 2006 pick to the Blazers, even if they did become the best team in our division. I'm okay with them being good now and horrible a couple years down the line.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

It's wishful thinking to think Denver's pick will land anywhere above 22 IMHO. Looking at current mocks though, any combination of Darius Washington, Steve Smith, Rodney Carney, Josh Boone and Ronnie Brewer (!) would make me very happy though.


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

I don't know much about Rudy Gay, but Toronto could do what Utah did and try to move up to the 3rd pick by packaging their two 2006 picks with another one. For those who have seen him play, is he worth that much?


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

As of now, I'm happier getting someone like Rudy Fernandez or Rodney Carney to eventually fill the SG hole.

That, on top of our lottery pick. Looks like the 2005 draft all over again. Schweet.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Sounds like George Karl has prostate cancer. Hope he's going to be OK but this isn't very good news for the Nuggets. If their division foes can pull off some good moves in the next few weeks it could be a difficult season for them. Then again, maybe Karl will be back in time for training camp.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

thats brutal. WOnder if he'll even coach this season. My ex girlfriend survived breast cancer and she was pretty much a shut-in the days of her chemo treatments


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I think they are a 50 win team.
> 
> Ideally they trade Melo, get a whole bunch of injuries and suck.



I agree. If someone can look up the exact numbers, their record was abolutely sick after they hired coach Karl. Add the depth they did through the draft and they surely help themselves. 

Seattle should come back to the pack a bit. I am not sure about Utah.


At this point, I do my absolute damnedest to acquire a 14-20 projected pick. Then I do my best near the draft to move into the top 3 and acquire the draft's topflight talent. 7 + 16 + 23 could do it depending on the team and talent available.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

If Karl misses training camp and part of the season and they don't get Finley, I don't see a 50 win team. If Finley goes to the Bulls over Denver (fingers crossed) I see them getting more wins actually. I also don't think there are going to be many 50+ win teams this coming year, it's going to be a very tight race through the entire league and a team like Denver could fall mightily without Karl or with an injury to Camby. 

Western teams I rank higher than the Nugs (without Finley)- 
Spurs
Mavericks
Suns
Rockets

Eastern teams I rank higher than the Nugs-
Pistons
Pacers
Cavs
Nets
Bulls (with Finley)

And who's close? Just about everyone else- from the Wizards to the Kings to the Celtics to the Twolves to the Bucks. They're not a lock for anything at this point, especially if Karl is going to be missing for a while.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Now that we have started to see some return on the Vince Carter trade - Joey Graham of course - let's turn our attention to the other piece of that trade, the Denver pick.
> 
> People have been writing that pick off after Denver surged forward late in the season. They certainly did improve last year but have they improved a lot this offseason? They just acquired Hodge, Ricky Sanchez, and Linas Kleiza in the draft. I don't know about you but I don't see any of those guys taking the Nugz to the next level.
> 
> ...


just trying to justify waht you want to happen...pretty difficult huh? i wonder if you owned the warriors pick, how this post would be changed.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

Turkish Delight said:


> I definately think Golden State and Utah will surge past Denver next season. Hopefully Minnesota can do the same. I'm not too sure about the Lakers at this point, but I can only hope.
> 
> Last year the Nuggets struggled to start the season, but after George Karl took over as head coach they really started playing some good basketball. They took a lot of teams by surprise, but I don't think they'll be able to do the same next season. I expect them to end up with about 45 wins at the most.


:laugh:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

PurpleNation said:


> Is the Denver pick lottary protected? I think that the Denver will be hard pressed to make the playoffs in the West given all the other teams they will be competing against. I will be praying for their demise.
> 
> Peace.


:laugh:

this is helarious. apparently teams that we were ahead of last year (warriors, utah, etc) have a better shot than us now? amazing. 

man, i never understood it til now - but what other fans say about rap fans is pretty accurate.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

SkywalkerAC said:


> bump
> 
> (ha, I knew blowup wasn't arguing that the Denver pick could land us a lotto pick)
> 
> ...


ask a nonrap/non nugget fan about the nuggets - most (90%+) say we are a 3rd-6th seed a fav to win the NW. ask a rap fan and this is what you get - justify what you want to be true...other teams are pretty much all going to get better cept us. we have questions they dont. they are on the rise, we are going down. :clap: 

if you did an objective look at the west, much would change from your post.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

SkywalkerAC said:


> If Karl misses training camp and part of the season and they don't get Finley, I don't see a 50 win team. If Finley goes to the Bulls over Denver (fingers crossed) I see them getting more wins actually. I also don't think there are going to be many 50+ win teams this coming year, it's going to be a very tight race through the entire league and a team like Denver could fall mightily without Karl or with an injury to Camby.
> 
> Western teams I rank higher than the Nugs (without Finley)-
> Spurs
> ...


with the exact same logic, and karl does come back and if we do/dont get finley, we could be much higher than you think. your logic is so highly flawed. IF everything goes bad for us (and it could) and everything goes right for all those other teams we could fall and you guys get a 10-15 pick. granted, everything could go bad for otehr teams and we could go much higher. in the end, it often avereages out which leaves us higher than you are estimating. you are basically assuming worse case scenerio for us. which is fine for you, but doesnt work in reality very often (although it COULD).


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

NugzFan said:


> ask a nonrap/non nugget fan about the nuggets - most (90%+) say we are a 3rd-6th seed a fav to win the NW. ask a rap fan and this is what you get - justify what you want to be true...other teams are pretty much all going to get better cept us. we have questions they dont. they are on the rise, we are going down. :clap:
> 
> if you did an objective look at the west, much would change from your post.


I'm actually a pretty objective guy. The Nuggets could very well win their division but even if they did I don't think they'd have a top 4 record in the west. 

I don't think the draft made them much better and they haven't made any noise in free agency yet. Now Karl is having cancer surgery. They should make playoffs but they could easily miss them. 

I think it's probably you that should take an objective look at the West. Golden State, Minnesota, Memphis, et al? You don't think these are potential playoff teams?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

NugzFan said:


> :laugh:
> 
> this is helarious. apparently teams that we were ahead of last year (warriors, utah, etc) have a better shot than us now? amazing.
> 
> man, i never understood it til now - but what other fans say about rap fans is pretty accurate.



Don't lump me into that ****. For Denver's pick to be remotely close to the lotto, they must have an injury riddled year a la San Antonio the year they won Duncan. 

You just can't say hey yeah, everyone is going to get better, and the team you want to worsen gets worse. There is no evidence whatsoever to support you AC. None. Until the season and suspensions/injuries unfold, they are not getting worse.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Don't lump me into that ****.


Several posters in this thread made the point that the Nuggets would likely be successful this year, so NugzFan's comment is a mischaracterization.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

speedythief said:


> Several posters in this thread made the point that the Nuggets would likely be successful this year, so NugzFan's comment is a mischaracterization.
> 
> But he still holds resentment towards some people here who once said they were happier with Bosh and the direction the team took with him than they would've been with Anthony and the path the team was likely to follow had they drafted him, so don't expect him to be FoxNews "fair and balanced".
> 
> He also wanted to give us Andre Miller and Voshon Lenard (and no picks) for Carter.


 Nah that was nbanoitall. You're pretty shaky lately, speedy.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

The computer virus or whatever I've got is frying my brain, which wasn't a work of art to begin with.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

SkywalkerAC said:


> I'm actually a pretty objective guy. The Nuggets could very well win their division but even if they did I don't think they'd have a top 4 record in the west.
> 
> I don't think the draft made them much better and they haven't made any noise in free agency yet. Now Karl is having cancer surgery. They should make playoffs but they could easily miss them.
> 
> I think it's probably you that should take an objective look at the West. Golden State, Minnesota, Memphis, et al? You don't think these are potential playoff teams?


true but while we could easily miss them, all the other teams COULD miss them too and are slightly more likely too. thats the key. i mean how can you say the warriors and minnesota would make the playoffs and we wont? arent the warriors and wolves vulernable to miss the postseason as well?


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

speedythief said:


> Several posters in this thread made the point that the Nuggets would likely be successful this year, so NugzFan's comment is a mischaracterization.


well it wasnt mine - its just somehting ive read many times and didnt really think about it til i started reading posts here.


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

"ask a rap fan and this is what you get - justify what you want to be true... man, i never understood it til now - but what other fans say about rap fans is pretty accurate."

what's with the Rap fan bashing? The posts and the _opinions _ on this thread happens to be an optimistic. In my perspective, that's just an attempt to garner some debate, but in your eyes, we are apparently justifying things? Had you have the chance to see other posters making other side of the argument? 

Don't come here and tell us we are biased, when you are the one carrying the bias. Talk about arrogance.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

NugzFan said:


> true but while we could easily miss them, all the other teams COULD miss them too and are slightly more likely too. thats the key. i mean how can you say the warriors and minnesota would make the playoffs and we wont? arent the warriors and wolves vulernable to miss the postseason as well?


I never said you WERE going to miss the playoffs. I said we've got a decent chance of getting a pick in the teens and hoped (and still do) that will miss the playoffs. I outlined how strong almost ever team is in the west. 

Yes, the Nuggets exploded late last season but that was last season. I wouldn't bet on them winning 50 games this year. I also wouldn't bet on them missing the playoffs.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

NugzFan said:


> true but while we could easily miss them, all the other teams COULD miss them too and are slightly more likely too. thats the key. i mean how can you say the warriors and minnesota would make the playoffs and we wont? arent the warriors and wolves vulernable to miss the postseason as well?


I don't think I ever said that. This is largley just a predictions thread, where some Raptors fans see the Nuggets as a top team in the west and some don't. I certainly hope they aren't and unless they make a serious addition at SG, I don't see them as one. 

You're doing the same thing I am when you say they have a (slightly) better chance than these other teams. It's just so many of these teams are close to the same level now (and I don't think this list is farfetched)- Denver, Seattle, Sacramento, Memphis, LA Clips and Lakers, Golden State. And then you've got true wildcards like Portland and Utah. It's going to be a wild race and yes, the Raps do have a legit chance at getting a lotto pick if Denver falters AT ALL.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Bump

Looks like Denver adds Watson, Hodge, and Keiza. Will probably retain Demarr; not sure what will happen with Buckner (but I'd guess he'd stay). VERY deep team that should be able to play high-octane for 48-minutes almost every night. 

Kenyon Martin coming off knee surgery? I don't have a link and I think he's well on his way back to 100% but he is most definitely one of the most important players on their team that should be able to improve on last season. If he struggles, so will the Nuggs. 

I have the feeling that Melo will come in with a more mature game and attitude next season. He's going to be tough to stop. 

The Sonics haven't done as badly as I might have thought this offseason. They managed to keep Ray Allen and they seem to be in a position to keep almost everyone after losing Antonio Daniels to the Wizards.

The Twolves have finally started surrounding KG with some youth and we'll see how that pans out. They do have a good team that could be great if KG can rally them like MJ. We'll have to see how the youth coupled with a new coach hurts or hinders them.

Right now I'd say the Nugs are the favourites to win their division but I still don't see them with a top 6 record in the NBA. Will be interesting to see how their uptempo offense does now that more and more teams are looking to get out in transition.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Bump!


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