# NBA's 60 Greatest Players - TNT presents next 10



## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

Is the NBA having a 60 greatest players this year? I heard something about it. 

They should bump people off the 50 greatest list :laugh:

Who's going to get on the next 10? Kobe probably. T-Mac? Duncan. KG?


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

duncan and kg should be added IMO, it would probably be a few more from years past who missed out on the top 50 ... any reason to make it 60 this year, strange number


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## Wilmatic2 (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Kobe better be one of the 60's greatest players.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

It's the 60th anniversary of the NBA, that's why.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

i knew that actually... mind blank lol.
makes sense though... and i wouldnt be surprised if kobe makes it either.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

I think Kobe and Duncan have to make it. They've got the titles since '96.


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## supermati (Mar 28, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



One on One said:


> Is the NBA having a 60 greatest players this year? I heard something about it.
> 
> They should bump people off the 50 greatest list :laugh:
> 
> Who's going to get on the next 10? Kobe probably. T-Mac? Duncan. KG?


No, no T-Mac.


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

kobe bryant
jason kidd
tim duncan
kevin garnett
bob mcadoo (snubbed from *50 greatest* list)
allen iverson
reggie miller (18 seasons with one team)
gary payton
grant hill
Lebron James (might as well be put on now, scary thing is in ten years he'll only be 31)


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

I hope Nique gets in this time. Duncan, Kobe and AI should be locks.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



mjm1 said:


> kobe bryant
> jason kidd
> tim duncan
> kevin garnett
> ...


isnt shaq already in the list? I donth think grant Hill merits a top 60 player of all time.


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## Kirk64 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



mjm1 said:


> reggie miller (18 seasons with one team)


No. Just 18.2-3.0-3.0 for his career. 3 All-NBA 3rd teams, 5 All-Star games, and no rings. Good career, but not Top 60 all-time.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Do they re-do it? Or do they just add 10? For example could one of the existing top 50 be excluded from the top 60?


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

theyre not doing a 60 top players at the 60 year anniversary. the only time i'd think they'd do it again would be at 75 and then at 100.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



DuMa said:


> theyre not doing a 60 top players at the 60 year anniversary.


Um, that's exactly what they're doing. TNT is going to air an hour-long program on it. Specific people have been chosen to vote, so I'd say the process is official.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Do they re-do it? Or do they just add 10? For example could one of the existing top 50 be excluded from the top 60?


They're just going to add 10 more players but I suppose will remind everyone of 50 Greatest Players first.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Tim Duncan (no-brainer)
Kevin Garnett (ditto)
Allen Iverson (ditto)
Kobe Bryant (ditto)
Jason Kidd (best PG since '98)
Gary Payton (best defensive PG ever, arguably the best man defender ever)
Bob McAdoo (former MVP)
Dominique Wilkins (should have made the 50 Greatest)

^IMO, all locks.

It becomes tough for me after that. Nash, T-Mac, Webber, Rodman, Alonzo, Reggie, etc.

I'll save LeBron for the 75th or whatever anniversary team.


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## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Duncan-(obvious reasons--rings, numbers, impact, you name it)
Kobe-(same thing)
KG-(despite the lack of rings, has put up ASTRONOMICAL numbers across the board)
AI-(see KG)
Nique-(snubbed)
McAdoo-(snubbed)
Reggie-(deserves it as their just aren't that many that were snubbed the first time)
GP-(9 consecutive All NBA 1st team D awards and 11 overall)
JKidd-(best court vision since Magic and lead an NBA team to the finals without a dominant big)

And my last guy choice, will come as a shock but...Dennis Rodman. He's simply the best rebounder EVER. He's the very reason people here can say "MJ won a title without a dominant BIG". Rodman was just so damn dominant on those boards and on the low-block post-D that the oppositions BIGs were usually negated enough that MJ could make more of an impact on the game. Was Rodman EVER outrebounded by any ONE player consistently? Rodman gave those Bulls teams a presence inside. 

Rodman deserves it.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Was David Robinson on the top 50? He probably deserves a spot. I think Kobe, KG, Duncan, AI, Nique, McAdoo will make it.


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## Kirk64 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



magic_bryant said:


> Duncan-(obvious reasons--rings, numbers, impact, you name it)
> Kobe-(same thing)
> KG-(despite the lack of rings, has put up ASTRONOMICAL numbers across the board)
> AI-(see KG)
> ...


Adrian Dantley over Reggie.


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## naibsel (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Anyone who got snubbed from first list(atleast 'nique, mcadoo and ill leave a space for someone else)

other 7 are 
gary payton
tim duncan
kevin garnett
reggie miller (if bill laimbeer gets to go in, no reason reggie shouldn't)
allen iverson
jason kidd
lebron (shaq got in after only 4 years or something crazy like that. 20-5-5( only mj and O did it) 27-7-7 (add larry legend to previous list) 31-7-7 (should bump those assists up by end of season). shaq had 6 inches and 90lbs over lebron when comparing dominance.) if he's been matching the greats since his 25-5-7 debut against the sacramento kings, i dont see any other player who isn't active who merits being put on the list. 

kobe has to put a few years on the one man show, becoz lebron is killing him in age comparison id put lebron over kobe. kobe is a shoe in for top 70 and so is tmac, i think kidds career will look even more incredible when he still puts up about 15-6-7 in his last season on that bum leg, but he should still be included now


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



naibsel said:


> kobe has to put a few years on the one man show, becoz lebron is killing him in age comparison id put lebron over kobe. kobe is a shoe in for top 70



Wow...

Anyway.. Of course the snubs from the top 50. Dominique Wilkins, and Bob McAdoo. Then add Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, Kevin Garnett, Gary Payton, Tracy McGrady, and Steve Nash(He'll have for sure 1, and probably 2 MVP trophies).


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## bbasok (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

AI,Reggie Miller,Duncan and Kobe should be in it


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## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

*Tim Duncan* - (Season MVP twice, Finals MVP 3x, 3 rings, All NBA 1st Team & All NBA Defensive 1st Team a record 8 straight times in his 1st 8 yrs in the L)
*Kobe Bryant* - (3 rings, one of the greatest scorers of his generation, clutch as hell)
*AI* - (4 time Scoring Champion, Season MVP, NBA Finals appearance, one of the best little men to ever play the game)
*Jason Kidd* - (the best PG over the last decade, 6 time All-Star, All-NBAer 6x, All NBA Def Teamer 7x, 4th on the all time Triple Doubles list, back-to-back Finals appearances)
*KG* - (he & Larry Legend r the only ones w/ career averages of atleast 20-10-5, Season MVP, revolutionized the power forward position, was a pioneer for high schoolers)
*Bob McAdoo* - (one of the most dynamic scoring forwards, a 6th man for a Championship Lakers squad)
*Dominique Wilkins * - (9th on the all time scoring leaders)
*Reggie Miller* - (18 seasons w/ same team, all time leader in 3s made + attempted, made Indiana a playoff contender for a long time, clutch legend)
*Gary Payton* - (Defensive Player of the year, one of the best on-ball defenders ever, the 2nd best do it all guards in the late 90s next to MJ, 2 Finals appearances)
*David Robinson* - (Defensive Player of the yr, Season MVP, Scoring Champion, 2 rings)

Dennis Rodman, Dantley, Dirk Nowitzki, and LeBron James will be on the 70 Greatest Players next time.


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## CodyThePuppy (Nov 18, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

I know it's not technically the NBA, but JJ Redick should be in this conversation.


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## dominikan_balla1 (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

:raised_ey ???


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## dominikan_balla1 (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



CodyThePuppy said:


> I know it's not technically the NBA, but JJ Redick should be in this conversation.


^^^


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



Kirk64 said:


> No. Just 18.2-3.0-3.0 for his career. 3 All-NBA 3rd teams, 5 All-Star games, and no rings. Good career, but not Top 60 all-time.


Go to hell. Reggie is an top 60 player all time.


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## CodyThePuppy (Nov 18, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



R-Star said:


> Go to hell. Reggie is an top 60 player all time.


Awsome argument! JJ Redick > Reggie Miller


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## bbasok (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

LoL..


REGGIE MILLER>Redick


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



CodyThePuppy said:


> Awsome argument! JJ Redick > Reggie Miller


R-Star doesnt feel like arguing. If someone thinks the most prolific 3 point shooter of all time shouldnt be top 60, then they arent worth arguing with.


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## CodyThePuppy (Nov 18, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



R-Star said:


> R-Star doesnt feel like arguing. If someone thinks the most prolific 3 point shooter of all time shouldnt be top 60, then they arent worth arguing with.


Miller hit a few clutch threes and got alot of media love, but never really won anything and didn't do anything to deserve being Top 60 except for get alot of hype. That's all he is and that's all he ever will be.


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## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



Kirk64 said:


> Adrian Dantley over Reggie.


OK, I forgot all about him. Good call.


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## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



naibsel said:


> Anyone who got snubbed from first list(atleast 'nique, mcadoo and ill leave a space for someone else)
> 
> other 7 are
> gary payton
> ...


Spoken like a true hater.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



CodyThePuppy said:


> Miller hit a few clutch threes and got alot of media love, but never really won anything and didn't do anything to deserve being Top 60 except for get alot of hype. That's all he is and that's all he ever will be.



A few clutch 3's? You have no idea what you're talking about. Miller was the most clutch shooter to ever play a game. What are you, 15? Did you not watch ball when Reggie was in his prime? Maybe you didnt see him lead the Pacers to a 60+ win team and take them to the finals in 2000.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

OMG i cant believe people actually want to already put lebron on the list. Let the kid actually get into the playoffs for the first time...

this is just ridiculous .....


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## CodyThePuppy (Nov 18, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



R-Star said:


> A few clutch 3's? You have no idea what you're talking about. Miller was the most clutch shooter to ever play a game. What are you, 15? Did you not watch ball when Reggie was in his prime? Maybe you didnt see him lead the Pacers to a 60+ win team and take them to the finals in 2000.


Wow, he made the finals. Plenty of players have made the finals. I love how you resort to personal attacks in order to make your argument. It shows lots of maturity on your part and really convinces me to your point. Outstanding!


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



CodyThePuppy said:


> Wow, he made the finals. Plenty of players have made the finals. I love how you resort to personal attacks in order to make your argument. It shows lots of maturity on your part and really convinces me to your point. Outstanding!



So it take it you are 15 or less then?


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## CodyThePuppy (Nov 18, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



R-Star said:


> So it take it you are 15 or less then?


Thanks for proving my point 

*sigh* kids are making it too easy these days


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



CodyThePuppy said:


> Wow, he made the finals. Plenty of players have made the finals. I love how you resort to personal attacks in order to make your argument. It shows lots of maturity on your part and really convinces me to your point. Outstanding!


Reggie is and will be a lock for it. In all actuality, he should have made the first 50, but he wasnt in the leauge long enough.

He is a lock for the HOF and should be a lock for the next 10 greatest. 

He leads the leauge in 3 pointers at 2500+, 3pt % and has racked over 25,279 points, that AND
*
Five-time NBA All-Star (1990, '95, '96, '98, 2000); All-NBA Third Team (1995, '96, '98); NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1988); 1996 Olympic gold medalist; J.Walter Kennedy Citzenship Award (2004).*

http://www.nba.com/history/players/miller_summary.html


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Players that should be added are

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Dominique Wilkins
Bob McAdoo
Jason Kidd
Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Gary Payton

These guys should definitely be on the list. Possibilities for 9 and 10 include Reggie Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, David Thompson, Alonzo Mourning, Dennis Rodman, Alex English, Adrian Dantley, Sidney Moncrief, Artis Gilmore, and a lot more. So my list only has 8. Tracy McGrady does in no way shape or form deserve to be in the discussion.

If you disagree with this list, you are dumb.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Players that should be added are
> 
> Tim Duncan
> Kobe Bryant
> ...



Your list i agree with, but i dont think Dirk is worthy of this list. But the 70th though he should be a lock. And tmac does not either nor does Lebron so i agree with you on tmac


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



CodyThePuppy said:


> Thanks for proving my point
> 
> *sigh* kids are making it too easy these days


I proved nothing. If you dont think Reggie deserves to be in, you're ignorant. Its that simple.


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## CodyThePuppy (Nov 18, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



R-Star said:


> I proved nothing. If you dont think Reggie deserves to be in, you're ignorant. Its that simple.


And you keep proving it, you're too kind


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



CodyThePuppy said:


> And you keep proving it, you're too kind


wow, seems as if youre acting like the mature one now...
why dont you two just kiss and make up? :raised_ey


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## CodyThePuppy (Nov 18, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



OneBadLT123 said:


> wow, seems as if youre acting like the mature one now...
> why dont you two just kiss and make up? :raised_ey


I tried to have a mature conversation but R-Star decides to resort to immature personal attacks. Not much else I can do


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## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Players that should be added are
> 
> Tim Duncan
> Kobe Bryant
> ...


Alex English is on the 50 greatest and he's in the HOF.


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## Kirk64 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Reggie is and will be a lock for it. In all actuality, he should have made the first 50, but he wasnt in the leauge long enough.
> 
> He is a lock for the HOF and should be a lock for the next 10 greatest.
> 
> ...


His stats and accomplishments are not enough to get him in. 18-3-3 with the above isn't enough. If he had a few rings like James Worthy, he might have a shot. His HOF probablity score on Basketball Reference.com is quite low, around the level of Tom Chambers and Jamal Mashburn.


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## Kirk64 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



R-Star said:


> R-Star doesnt feel like arguing. If someone thinks the most prolific 3 point shooter of all time shouldnt be top 60, then they arent worth arguing with.



Why would being adept at a particular shot get you into the HOF?

Bottom line: 18-3-3 and no rings does not get him, your opinion and anger nothwithstanding.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



neoxsupreme said:


> Alex English is on the 50 greatest and he's in the HOF.


Alex English is not one of the 50 greatest.


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## 36 Karat (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

36 Karat thinks Cody the Puppy, and anybody else that believes Reggie Miller doesn't belong in the top 60, is a *******.

His 18-3-3 has no relevance here. Kirk, have you ever watched basketball in your life? Ever even heard of the sport? I know a lot of people that refer to threes as Reggies. That's dominance. The man made a fool of 25 feet.

Wait..wait. I just realized something. Either Spike Lee posts here, or you're all Knicks fans.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

It's easy in abstract to just say "Reggie is a top 60 player ever," but when you actually start considering other all-time greats, you realize there are probably players more deserving than Reggie. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes the list though. TNT is doing the list after all.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Reggie is a top 60 all time player and I also scored my career high of 85 points in an NBA game last night.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Reggie leads the NBA for all-time 3's attempted and made. That alone should get him into the HOF.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Kobe, Duncan, Kidd, KG, and IMO Nash is making a late career run at all time greatness too.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Oh yeah, AI should be on the list too. He's pretty much inhuman.


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

He was never even on the all-NBA second team, which points to him not being a top-10 player in the league, even at his peak. There are a lot more than 60 players who have been much better - clutch shots are nice (though certainly exaggerated), but Horry isn't in contention.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

The ten players I'd add:

Dennis Rodman
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Tracy McGrady
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Bernard King
Jason Kidd
Dominique Wilkins

Redresses the greatest snubs from the original top-50 list and adds the most talented players who have played in the league since that list was made (not counting players who have not played enough to qualify, like LeBron James or Grant Hill).


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## Kirk64 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



WTChan said:


> Reggie leads the NBA for all-time 3's attempted and made. That alone should get him into the HOF.


Why? It isn't how you score the points, it's how many you score, and what else you do.


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## Kirk64 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



36 Karat said:


> 36 Karat thinks Cody the Puppy, and anybody else that believes Reggie Miller doesn't belong in the top 60, is a *******.
> 
> His 18-3-3 has no relevance here. Kirk, have you ever watched basketball in your life? Ever even heard of the sport? I know a lot of people that refer to threes as Reggies. That's dominance. The man made a fool of 25 feet.
> 
> Wait..wait. I just realized something. Either Spike Lee posts here, or you're all Knicks fans.


I've been watching basketball since 1972. Unlike angry you, my opinion on the matter is entirely objective as I do not particularly like or dislike Reggie. 

Dominating a particular shot does not equal dominating the game. If it did, Reggie would have been higher than All-NBA 3rd a few times. He would have been an All-Star more often than 5 times in an 18 year career.

Stat-wise, he is at about the same level as HOFers like Parish and Worthy. The difference is that those guys have several rings each, and the perception is that their stats were affected by having to defer to several legends on their teams. The perception is not the same for Reggie, as he was pretty much always the best player on his team.

Finally, and this really seals the deal for a guy with no rings, is that he received a grand total of *3 points* in the MVP voting in his while career.

If there were a Hall of the Very Good, he would make it. But not the HOF.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Not one mention of Chris Mullin? He averaged an extremely efficient 26 ppg for several years, and was one of the best passers of the past two decades. 'Nique scored about 3 ppg more and had a longer prime, but he scored less efficiently and he was a black hole. Mullin was the better player if you wanted to win.

Bernard King was better than both those guys, but he only had a couple of outstanding years, so if you're ruling Grant Hill and LeBron out, he's out, too.

Reggie probably doesn't deserve a spot, but people are forgetting that his three-point shooting prowess meant that he was an incredibly efficient scorer.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

Some great players were snubbed of the 60 List. Guys like Dantley, English, Heinsohn, DJ, King, Lanier, Mullin and Nique, amongst others...

Kinda hard to do a 60 list...


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## naibsel (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



magic_bryant said:


> Spoken like a true hater.


spoken like a true homer. i would considered ppl of my ilk more objective than you. my name isn't "naibsel-omfg-lebron-goat". why would i expect anything but true dicksucking from a guy who when first joining this forum threw kobe in his profile name when thinking of what epitimizes his basketball identity


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

"Lesbian" spelled backwards is what epitomizes your basketball identity?


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## ballistixxx (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



Hakeem said:


> "Lesbian" spelled backwards is what epitomizes your basketball identity?


didn't know that....... I think I should pay more attention to detail


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



CodyThePuppy said:


> Thanks for proving my point
> 
> *sigh* kids are making it too easy these days


whos the "kid"? you're the one bring all this jj redick crap in an nba forum

reggie is all time leader in 3's made and it isnt even close... the difference between reggie and his closest pursuers is like 1000 3's.. he shoot per/ automatic from the free throw line (top 5 in FT% altime?) the 18 ppg is over 18 YEARS.. all those points have made him a top-15 scorer all time.

his most important quality is his clutchness and you cant even measure that. who can bring the same magic he does in the last 2:59 seconds in a playoff game? his lack of rings is due to playing in the same era as jordan, just like gary payton, malone, stockton, ewing, so they arent HOFs either?


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## naibsel (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*



Hakeem said:


> "Lesbian" spelled backwards is what epitomizes your basketball identity?


i use naibsel for every forum im a member of. i had a problem of always forgetting my names and passwords so i just stuck with one that was easy.

i just picked a random word (i dunno maybe i was looking at porn that arvo) and put it backwards.

theres obviously a difference between a random word and naming urself after 2 lakers. then surprise surprise, vehemently defending one of said lakers when ever he is critiqued


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

But seriously, can you really place Lebron over Kobe if you were to add 10 players right now? 

Lebron is great and all, but how are you going to place a 3rd year player over a 10 year vet who has been on championship teams, an All Star numerous times, All NBA and All Defense, and Im pretty sure there are more accomplishments I havent listed. Im not knocking on Lebron because I think some day he will eclipse Kobe's accomplishments in the league, but this year and next year he won't be that day.

Can you honestly tell me that you'd choose Lebron over Kobe in a 10 player list for the 60 greatest? I dont even think futuristxen or Pioneer10, 2 of the biggest Lebron fans would do that. There are a lot of objective posters in this thread, look at everyones list in this post, it has Kobe, except for yours. I understand that Kobe hasn't carried his team to the playoffs without Shaq yet and has yet to do any damage as the leader of his team, but has Lebron done any more when he hasn't made the playoffs yet? I just don't think 27,7,7(last year) 31,7,7(this year), a ROY award, and 2 All Star appearances justify him making it over Kobe as a top 60 guy.

You honestly think Lebron should make it over Kobe in the top 60 next year?


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## naibsel (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

i think the two are atleast tied in terms of talent(id take lebron 8 catergorie gorging himself over kobes pts and better defense). lebron will have the better career once his is finished. shaq got in based on expectations over bob mcadoo and shaq hadn't won a title at that time.

and i think with all these young phenoms they will be future of the league for atleast a decade. i said kobe was a shoe in for 70 alltime. i highly doubt in the next 10 years there will be 10 new players that merit being put in over him. if there is, bad luck for him. but if theres 10 kobes in the nba i think we will be too busy watching every single minute possible to be concerned with some frivilous list.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

I hate kobe.

but putting leBron ahead of him on a list that celebrates the last 10 years of the NBA is asinine. period.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: NBA's 60 Greatest Players*

i saw on NBA TV.. it was 50 greatest


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## bbasok (Oct 30, 2005)

*TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*

article:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0212nbainsidernb0212.html


opinions?


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*

Kobe, Tim, Gary, Kidd, McAdoo, Reggie, Rodman, Bernard King, Wilkins and Garnett would be my added 10.


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*




bbasok said:


> article:
> 
> http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0212nbainsidernb0212.html
> 
> ...


Lebron James and Steve Nash have no business of being added to the list...yet. They will be added eventually.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*



SunsFan57 said:


> Kobe, Tim, Gary, Kidd, McAdoo, Reggie, Rodman, Bernard King, Wilkins and Garnett would be my added 10.


Reggie? Let alone no Iverson?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*

I'm going with:

Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Bernard King
Reggie Miller
Dominique Wilkins
Allen Iverson
Alex English
Joe Dumars (I'd rather have McAdoo, but for some reason I think Dumars will be selected)


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*



Ras said:


> Reggie? Let alone no Iverson?



Reggie deserves to go.


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## wilwn (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*

no one's mentioning dennis johnson?


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*

I already started a thread on this.

Thread Closed.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*



wilwn said:


> no one's mentioning dennis johnson?


The career 14 ppg doesn't do much for many people. When he won championships, he was overshadowed by Bird, Parish, and McHale.


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## bbasok (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*



R-Star said:


> Reggie deserves to go.


certainly


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*

Somehow I think Reggie will get in, considering he works for TNT and all.

Does he deserve it? Based on All-NBA selections and All-star teams he is about as deserving as Mitch Richmond.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*Re: TNT to expand list of 50 greatest players*

36 players to choose from. the TNT selection...its on!


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

my god, they snubbed KG :eek8:


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

No rodman.!


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

..

I'm watching it ... and maybe it is just me but I don't expect to really care who most of these guys choose.


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> I'm watching it ... and maybe it is just me but I don't expect to really care who most of these guys choose.


never the less, its an interesting debate to see why they made their choices.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I didn't know there was gonna be player evaluations at each position. I just thought they would name 10 players and comment on how deserving or undeserving they are to be included the "next 10". I like what TNT's doing.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

mjm1 said:


> never the less, its an interesting debate to see why they made their choices.


Yeah, I think the debate is more interesting than the final choices. I've heard all these guys say some pretty dumb things about players at times and I think they are all biased towards different people ... so to me it isn't all that different than if some of the guys here decided to pick a next 10.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

Holy ****. KG might not make it. Magic, Kenny, and Charles didn't vote for him.

Between Kenny basically implying KG is a loser and saying Kobe and Gervin were better scorers than Jordan, I no longer care for anything he has to say.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> I'm watching it ... and maybe it is just me but I don't expect to really care who most of these guys choose.


I hate when people bring up these things in arguments. Why do I care if someone was voted MVP, into the top 50, all-1st team, all-2nd team, or defensive player of the year by other people?


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

KG didnt have that many playoff accomplishments and hes not getting there soon (lots of injuries, Twolves signing Joe Smith against the rules and losind draft picks)


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

T-mac's got a better all around game(and better all around numbers) then any of those other scoring machines they had at SF. But with the way Charles and Kenny talked abt him u'd think he was Peja Stojakovic or something.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

SPMJ said:


> T-mac's got a better all around game(and better all around numbers) then any of those other scoring machines they had at SF. But with the way Charles and Kenny talked abt him u'd think he was Peja Stojakovic or something.


Talent vs. production

In the end production and consistency is what matters.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Locks: 
3 active players: Duncan, Kobe, KG
Likely: 
3 active players: AI, Kidd, Payton

rest of them are history players.

"LOVE" will be biggest factor in this vote.

Barkley and Kenny always say the reporters and fans lack of integrity.

IMO, Barkley and Kenny lack of integrity too.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

ralaw said:


> Talent vs. production


T-mac's got both. He's the only player in history aside from MJ with 4 consecutive 25/5/5 seasons and I don't see that streak ending any time soon.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Time to grill Charles. How dare he


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

SPMJ said:


> T-mac's got both. He's the only player in history aside from MJ with 4 consecutive 25/5/5 seasons and I don't see that streak ending any time soon.


McGrady will not make this list; however, he is a lock for the next one, there are more old school players who were more deserving now.

Dennis Johnson>Kobe Bryant???

Is Barkley serious?


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

Jeez dont go krazy kenny


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## Yoyo (Oct 16, 2005)

SG debate has disintegrated into a Charles vs. everyone debate about Kobe.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> T-mac's got both. He's the only player in history aside from MJ with 4 consecutive 25/5/5 seasons and I don't see that streak ending any time soon.


He still needs to break the perception about him by getting deeper into the playoffs. Assuming Houston doesn't go through the terrible injury problems they did this year that should happen next season.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Glad to see Reggie is a lock, but I wish they would've discussed Allen Iverson. I think Charles put him over Kobe, also.


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## ghoti (Jan 30, 2005)

sherako said:


> Time to grill Charles. How dare he


Jet just asked him if he had Lester Connor on his PG list.

LOL.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Charles Barkley takes Dennis Johnson and Joe Dumars over Kobe Bryant.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I love Barkley, but the guy is a moron for thinking that Miller, Iverson, Dumars, and Johnson all are in the top 60, but Kobe isn't...come on now, Sir Charles.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Basel57 said:


> I love Barkley, but the guy is a moron for thinking that Miller, Iverson, Dumars, and Johnson all are in the top 60, but Kobe isn't...come on now, Sir Charles.


I have no problem with the A.I. and Miller pick. It's the Dumars and Johnson picks I have a problem with over Kobe.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

JNice said:


> He still needs to break the perception about him by getting deeper into the playoffs.


But the other guys are hardly winners either. Dantley, King, English, Dominique. Who associates them with winning?

And I hate Kobe Bryant, but he's the 2nd greatest SG to ever play this game with AI being a CLOSE third. Charles further proves his complete lack of credibility by not picking Kobe and why was he also acting so shocked when Doug called Kobe Top 50? Kobe's Top 30. Does Barkley seriously think he can name 50 players better then Kobe?


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

How the hell could Charles Barkley but Allen Iverson over Kobe Bryant...It just doesn't add up


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

AI singlehandedly brang his team to the finals has kobe yet to bring _*his team * _ to the playoffs? nope.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

..

Well I don't think it makes any sense to even be choosing between guys whose careers are already over and guys whose careers are still years away from being over. I mean, for goodness sakes, they had Lebron on the ballot. Now Lebron could end up being one of the best ever but he is in his 3rd year.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

TiMVP2 said:


> AI singlehandedly brang his team to the finals has kobe yet to bring _*his team * _ to the playoffs? nope.


So, your comparing 9 years vs 1 year?


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

He has had worse supporting castss than K8be


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Gary Payton getting his due.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Gary Payton should be a lock, in my opinion.

I would choose Jason Kidd over Steve Nash over the course of their respective careers and to me, it's either one or the other. I'm surprised Bernard King didn't get a lot of discussion-time. It's a shame he wasted away his talent.

My final ten:

Bob McAdoo
Bob Lanier
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Dominique Wilkins
Reggie Miller
Allen Iverson
Gary Payton
Jason Kidd


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> Well I don't think it makes any sense to even be choosing between guys whose careers are already over and guys whose careers are still years away from being over. I mean, for goodness sakes, they had Lebron on the ballot. Now Lebron could end up being one of the best ever but he is in his 3rd year.


Technically, they did the same thing with the top 50, so I really don't see any way around it. I will say they should keep it at 50 and add instead of replacing. It think that would add some interesting discussion to the debate and make being a top 50 player more credible.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

someone's gonna have to explain to me this love people have for Reggie Miller.

Gary Payton's is so underrated


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

tone wone said:


> someone's gonna have to explain to me this love people have for Reggie Miller.


He works for TNT and is probably right there somewhere. They gotta show him some love.

Reggie was a fine player, but he ain't anywhere close to being Top 60. C'mon, career 20 ppg with very average numbers across the board. Never won any rings. The clutch shots he hit has completely elevated his career to a level where he DOESN'T belong.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I agree with the top 10! good job TNT.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

I too agree!


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think basically Charles knew everyone would pick Kobe, so he gave some extra love to Dennis Johnson and Joe Dumars who he knew wouldn't get in.

But all in all, they came up with a pretty good list.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> Does Barkley seriously think he can name 50 players better then Kobe?


Do you think a guy who picks Dennis Johnson and Joe Dumars over Kobe has any problem ticking off 50 players better than Kobe? Apparently he can name at least 60.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

can someone post the top 10? i missed it.


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## KingofNewark (Feb 18, 2005)

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dominique Wilkins
4. Allen Iverson
5. Bob Mcadoo
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Reggie Miller
8.Connie Hawkins
9. Jason Kidd
10. Gary Payton

Might have the order wrong.


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

Good list.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Ballscientist pick:

3 groups
Duncan, Kobe, McAdoo, A English

B King, W Bellamy*, D Wilkins, KG

Kidd, Payton, AI, R Miller*

* could be out


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Did TNT just *Cut Off* the Commish?! Isn't there a legality against that?


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Kidd over Payton (for career so far) is iffy

I know Payton isnt great now, but guy was just insanely good is his earlier years


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> Kidd over Payton (for career so far) is iffy
> 
> I know Payton isnt great now, but guy was just insanely good is his earlier years


* 7-time NBA All-Star: 1996, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
* 5-time All-NBA First Team: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004
* All-NBA Second Team: 2003
* 3-time All-NBA Defensive First Team: 1999, 2001, 2002
* 4-time All-NBA Defensive Second Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005
* NBA co-Rookie of the Year: 1995 (with Grant Hill)
* All-Rookie First Team: 1995
* 5-time NBA regular-season leader, assists per game: 1999 (10.8), 2000 (10.1), 2001 (9.8), 2003 (8.9), 2004 (9.2)
* 3-time NBA regular-season leader, total assists: 1999 (539), 2001 (753), 2003 (711)
* NBA regular-season leader, total steals: 2002 (175)
* Triple-doubles recorded: 70 (4th all-time as of January 23, 2006)
led team to 2 straight finals
won olympic gold

Yeah, im going to go with Kidd.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Why did they stop at putting Reggie Miller in? Kenny Smith also works for TNT and also doesn't deserve to be on the top-sixty list.

Smith got snubbed.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

mjm1 said:


> * 7-time NBA All-Star: 1996, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
> * 5-time All-NBA First Team: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004
> * All-NBA Second Team: 2003
> * 3-time All-NBA Defensive First Team: 1999, 2001, 2002
> ...


did I ever say Kidd wasnt very good?

for payton


> Named All-NBA First-Team in 1998, 2000, All-NBA Second Team in 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999 and All-NBA Third Team in 2001
> Selected to the NBA All-Defensive First Team eight consecutive seasons (1994-2001)
> Named Defensive Player of the Year in 1996 and was the first guard to win the award since Michael Jordan in 1987-88
> Selected to the NBA All-Star Team seven straight seasons (1994-98, 2000-01) and was voted as a starter in 1997 and 1998
> ...


won gold also. made finals also. I dont have any of the total assist and steals stuff, but you could bet gary has some of them

again, nothing taking away from Kidd, but Gary was amazing as well and with the 6 all defensive teams and dpoy I think he has done more to be ahead in a list like this


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## ravor44 (Feb 26, 2005)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> Kidd over Payton (for career so far) is iffy
> 
> I know Payton isnt great now, but guy was just insanely good is his earlier years


come on..your a NET HATER...Kidd>>>>Payton..enough said...


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

ravor44 said:


> come on..your a NET HATER...Kidd>>>>Payton..enough said...


In Paytons prime he was a 24 ppg, 9 apg, 6.5 rpg, 2 spg player, and dpoy candidate.
Kidds best year was 19 ppg, 9 apg, 6.3 rpg, 2 spg without the defense of Payton 

Saying Kidd is better is fine, but saying its not close is insane. People forget how good Payton was in his career.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

dbl...


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## Intense Enigma (Oct 22, 2005)

Reggie Miller,i find it funny,not because he dosent deserve to be there,but because when he retires all this NBA analist(NBA tv,TNT,ESPN)all where asking each other,Is Reggie a Hall of famer?,Most of them say,"he was good,but not great","not many ASG","he was a of the player and wasnt exciting to watch","no defense",etc,etc.that includes some of his TNT partners,now he works there and they change their minds.Now people consider him one of the 60 greatest players of ALL TIME,but have a hard time making a case for him to the Hall of fame.WTF


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

Kenny knocked Rodman for not impacting the game in more than one major way (when, in fact, Rodman did and Collins called Kenny out on it), yet voted for Reggie, the most one-dimensional player in the discussion.


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

GTA Addict said:


> Kenny knocked Rodman for not impacting the game in more than one major way (when, in fact, Rodman did and Collins called Kenny out on it), yet voted for Reggie, the most one-dimensional player in the discussion.


Kenny...

I'd take Rodman over Reggie anyday


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## Cru_Thik (Feb 19, 2006)

KingofNewark said:


> 1. Tim Duncan
> 2. Kobe Bryant
> 3. Dominique Wilkins
> 4. Allen Iverson
> ...


Iverson :clap:


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Stupid Gp.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> In Paytons prime he was a 24 ppg, 9 apg, 6.5 rpg, 2 spg player, and dpoy candidate.
> Kidds best year was 19 ppg, 9 apg, 6.3 rpg, 2 spg without the defense of Payton
> 
> Saying Kidd is better is fine, but saying its not close is insane. People forget how good Payton was in his career.


that yr when Kidd was in MVP running but lost to Duncan and then led his team to the finals in the super weak east has upped his credibility... but honestly i think that Payton was the better player... he also led a team to the finals and was on many teams better than any Kidd was or is on... but he had to face Jordans Bulls, Hakeems Rockets, and others... i think thanks to the Bulls a lot of great 90s stars have been passed over...

i was surprised to hear Payton wasnt top 50 of all time...


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

SPMJ said:


> He works for TNT and is probably right there somewhere. They gotta show him some love.
> 
> Reggie was a fine player, but he ain't anywhere close to being Top 60. C'mon, career 20 ppg with very average numbers across the board. Never won any rings. The clutch shots he hit has completely elevated his career to a level where he DOESN'T belong.


he is 12th place on all time points scored. all time leader of 3-pts made (leads 2nd place with about 1000 3pointers). Considering hes has played 18 seasons, he ahs maintained a very high FT% (all time top 5?)
and of course his clutchness speaks for it self. he might near the bottom of the top 60 but he should stil be there


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

I still don't understand how Charles Barkley picks AI over Kobe but thats just me.


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## GM3 (May 5, 2005)

shobe42 said:


> that yr when Kidd was in MVP running but lost to Duncan and then led his team to the finals in the super weak east has upped his credibility... but honestly i think that Payton was the better player... he also led a team to the finals and was on many teams better than any Kidd was or is on... but he had to face Jordans Bulls, Hakeems Rockets, and others... i think thanks to the Bulls a lot of great 90s stars have been passed over...
> 
> i was surprised to hear Payton wasnt top 50 of all time...


How is facing Hakeem and Jordan in the finals different than facing Duncan and Shaq?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I think Payton is in the running, with Stockton and Thomas, for third-best point guard of all-time (Big O and Magic are the unquestioned top-two).

In his prime, Payton was a great play-maker, dangerous scorer, good rebounder for his position and arguably the best defender ever at his position. I think Payton is quite underrated, as some people actually consider him a borderline Hall of Famer.

At their respective primes, the only point guards in history that I'd rather have then Payton are Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Minstrel said:


> I think Payton is in the running, with Stockton and Thomas, for third-best point guard of all-time (Big O and Magic are the unquestioned top-two).
> 
> In his prime, Payton was a great play-maker, dangerous scorer, good rebounder for his position and arguably the best defender ever at his position. I think Payton is quite underrated, as some people actually consider him a borderline Hall of Famer.
> 
> At their respective primes, the only point guards in history that I'd rather have then Payton are Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson.


 at least somebody understands.

GP is a classic example of rep before production hurting you. He has a reputation from the average fan of being just a loud mouth trash talker who played really good D.

IMO, he not Stockton, was best PG of 90s. His prime blows Kidd's out the water and he is a top 5 PG of all-time.

Reggie Miller is the exact opposite of Payton. His rep has enhanced his career. The silliest thing you can argue is he record for 3pters. He was a jumpshooter who played for 18 freakin years! Of course he was bound break some shooting record. Really, what the difference Reggie Miller and Chris Mullin or Mitch Ritchman...hell, from a skills standpoint he's a poor-mans Ray Allen or a gifted Micheal Redd.


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## fleet40 (Jan 14, 2004)

I tell you without a shadow of a doubt, Rodman and Laimbeer get shafted more than any player in league history. No doubt they both were so called "Bad Boys" But their impact in the league can not be forgotten or under rated. Laimbeer is one of the most remembered players, had a huge impact was the most prolific defensive rebounder for nearly a decade, was one of the leagues top competitors, and helped change the game with his team, (for good or bad, depending on what style of game you prefer) And hell, did anyone hate a player in the history more than Laimbeer?

Rodman pound for pound the greatest rebounder in NBA history, (States that Laimbeer taught him every trick) Was one of the greatest man on man defenders of his time. I mean these guys were so valuable to their teams, as anyone. YET... They get black balled. I don't care how tough they played, whether they knocked someone on their a$$ or not, this is a mans game. Give these guys (and others) some damn due respect.


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## AJC NYC (Aug 16, 2005)

Jkidd is way better than GP


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