# Who Do You Pick: Miles vs. Redick



## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

My Friend and I are at a disagreement, he is a Duke fan, I am a Jayhawk fan. Both players are key to their teams success, both get the job done, both are winners, both aren't destined for NBA stardom. 

So, If you had to pick one to be on your team who do you take, not neccessarily the best player, but who do you pick?


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

They are different positions, so it depends on the team.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

And thats what i tried to explain to him. Which i think makes miles case even better because if you pick redick you want more of a scorer and i think you always want a low post scorer rather than an outside scorer when you "pick" a team.

With miles you get a floor general who will be an extension of the coach, find teammates, and only shoot in rhythm- which doesnt conflict in any pick a team scenarios


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I wouldn't say that makes "miles case even better", because you need outside scorers just as much as inside ones.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I voted for Redick. 

Miles is a great floor general, but his skills aren't exactly unique. There are plenty of other PG's out there that do what he does, although I do like the defensive intensity he brings to the position. 

On the other hand, the way that Redick forces defenses to develop their plan around him is completely unique. No, not even Salim Stoudamire can boast this...


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## Don Corleone (Sep 24, 2004)

Reddick

I dont want Miles


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Reddick is an all-american, Miles is not.

Sure Miles will fit better on some teams.

I asked 330D1 coaches at the beginning of the year who they want given there makeup of the team:

The vote was:
JJ Reddick 317
Aaron Miles 13


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> I voted for Redick.
> 
> Miles is a great floor general, but his skills aren't exactly unique. There are plenty of other PG's out there that do what he does,


...like be 5th in the nation in assists (with a 3:1 A/TO ratio) and shoot 59% from deep while leading a #1 RPI/SOS team to a 17-1 record and sole possession of first place in conference? I can't really think of too many PGs out there who do what he does (and I can't think of _any_ who've done what he's done over the last four years).



> On the other hand, the way that Redick forces defenses to develop their plan around him is completely unique. No, not even Salim Stoudamire can boast this...


True, but it's not like Redick is the only member of the Duke backcourt that opposing defenses have to plan around (the more versatile Daniel Ewing comes to mind in this regard), and it's not like Redick is the first great 6'5" shooter to ever play college hoops. I think JJ's having a MONSTER season, and I think he's a legit AA candidate, but I also think point guard is the most important position on the roster.

This question has no right or wrong answers.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Playing for a good team isn't exactly relevant here, VV. You can replace Miles with 5 or 6 PG's on very good teams that are better than Miles, and would probably end up making Kansas a better team. Miles is a very impressive PG, but he's not one of the top tier PG's in the nation. 

There's nobody out there that can draw defenses like JJ Reddick. And that's why JJ Reddick is the easy choice. Dan Ewing is a nice player, but in no way, shape, or form do teams plan their entire defensive strategy around containing him. Watch Duke play. Reddick runs himself ragged around screens, and teams follow him with two guys wherever he goes. I don't understand how somebody could come away from a Duke game with the idea that the "more versatile" Dan Ewing is more of a focus of opposing defenses. That's not even close to the truth. When Ewing is nailing 25-foot fadeaway 3's, and more importantly, STILL has a guy in his face, this becomes a point up for debate.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

I just dont like the fact that Redick gets mentioned everytime he touches the ball and Aaron has to put up a double-double to get some good pub. I know Redick spreads defenses, and i know that Miles' skills arent unique, but i just think what miles does for a team is so important and being the starting pg for two final fours and one elite eight, he just brings something that has nothing to do with skill. I love redick too, i dont know if being relied on to shoot the three is the best thing for him but when he came in i was like holy crap, but someone like him has been seen before and will be seen again. If it wasnt for Shelden Williams emergence in the post i think duke's record would not look the same caus its just natural that redick is gonna be off some nights.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> Playing for a good team isn't exactly relevant here, VV.


Said team being successful in large part because of the way one plays is, however.



> There's nobody out there that can draw defenses like JJ Reddick.


That's because no team's offensive scheme is drawn up around a singular player to the degree that Duke's offensive scheme is set up around Redick. Keep in mind this isn't a comment on Redick as much as it is a comment on Coach K's system -- the same outside-in system of stagger screens for primary shooters that he's utilized for guys like Jeff Capel and Trajan Langdon for over a decade now. The thing with the Redick teams as opposed to the more dominant Duke teams of the past is that instead of Elton Brand, Cherokee Parks or Carlos Boozer inside to balance the offense and draw the defense, Coach K now has Shavlik Randolph and a defensive-minded Shelden Williams manning the post. That's a big difference. There's a reason why Redick draws so much attention, and there's a reason Coach K centers his offense around him. Put Salim Stoudamire or Francisco Garcia in Redick's place with an entire offense tailored to suit their main strength, and what do you get? The impression that they can draw the defense like no other in college basketball.

To say that Redick is the "easy choice" here without acknowledging the system he plays in kind of skews the argument, IMO.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> That's because no team's offensive scheme is drawn up around a singular player to the degree that Duke's offensive scheme is set up around Redick. Keep in mind this isn't a comment on Redick as much as it is a comment on Coach K's system -- the same outside-in system of stagger screens for primary shooters that he's utilized for guys like Jeff Capel and Trajan Langdon for over a decade now. \


Wait a minute here. You are saying that a key reason for Redick's success is that the Duke system is drawn up around him, but that is not a testament to how good Redick is, only because that is Coach K's offensive philosophy?

That simply is untrue. You provided two examples of players who played in similar offenses at Duke. Yes, Trajan Langdon was a great shooter, but Duke's offense was not drawn up around getting him an outside shot as much as it currently is with Redick. And as for Capel, you are just outright wrong. Capel was NEVER a Redick type player, and Duke's offense clearly was never set up around getting Capel shots the way it is with Redick.

The misconception about Coach K is that he has a set offensive philosophy. The truth is that he adapts the offense to fit the talent of his players. But he does not set up his offense every season around a good outside shooter. Think about it. When Jason Williams was there, the offense was set up entirely around his penetration. In the last ten minutes of games Duke would run the pick and roll with Williams and Boozer almost every single time down the court. That offense was obviously much different than the one Coach K currently employs. In Langdon's senior season the offense actually wasn't centered around him at all; that was a team that ran the fast break relentlessly. Langdon got many of his shots on the break or on kickouts from the post (remember, Brand was national poy that season). Yes, they did run Langdon off a lot of screens, and he did get his shots as a result, but I would argue that Duke's offense wasn't focused on him to the degree it is with Redick, and as a result, the opposing defense wasn't as focused on him to the degree it is with Redick.

Because Duke's so much of Duke's offense is set up to get Redick shots IS a testament to how great of a player Redick is. Coach K has realized that getting Redick shots provides Duke with the best chance to win.


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## apelman2 (Jan 16, 2004)

I know that this has already been stated but this question isn't even solveable. Miles is a top 5 PG in the nation and Redick is a scorer... Are we talking about one on one who'd win? If that's the case I'll take Miles cuz of the better defense and better ball handling skills. But if we're talking building a team around I'll take Redick.

They're both good.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Yeah I like Reddick here to. Both are nice players but I think that a high percentage shooter from three who has that kind of range coupled with a nearly flawless percentage from the free-throw line makes me want him. He also has expanded his game and has been able to take it to the basket more than he has in recent years which also gets him to the line. He plays tough defense but thats predicated mainly on his smarts and not his athleticism.

I just like winners which both defenitly are and Reddick has the attitude that I would want on a team of mine.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Said team being successful in large part because of the way one plays is, however.
> ...


This is all just a bunch of justification to put Miles in Redick's league. 

There's a reason Duke is where they are at the moment, and there's a reason why Coach K runs so many plays for Reddick. You are completely backwards on your analysis of why Reddick doesn't really draw defenses. Coach K wouldn't have to design the offense around JJ if teams were willing to give him decent looks. They aren't. They aren't even willing to give him bad looks, the kind of looks that Salim or Garcia won't even attempt. Therefore, JJ gets plays run for him. Are you honestly trying to tell me that Coach K's ideal offense is running JJ off 3 or 4 screens and him hoisting a 25-foot fadeaway? Come on!


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> I asked 330D1 coaches at the beginning of the year who they want given there makeup of the team:
> ...


I found that hard to believe


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

This is way too close. It really depends what you're losing by taking the other player. If you're only Miles' defense and fast-break running skills, then I think you can probably afford to take a gifted scorer, but Michigan State can certainly attest to the importance of a steady ballhandler. If I could have a steady point guard who runs the offense decently and basically just doesn't mess up, I'd go ahead and take Reddick.


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## Don Corleone (Sep 24, 2004)

Why are all Kansas fans always whoring their players on this board? Its not a popularity contest.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Don Corleone</b>!
> Why are all Kansas fans always whoring their players on this board? Its not a popularity contest.


From personal experience, most of the KU fans I've known don't realize basketball exists outside of Lawrence, Kansas, much less the Big 12.

After Redick's performance last night against Wake Forest, I don't know how this argument can even be made.


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## wightnoiser (Oct 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Truth</b>!
> After Redick's performance last night against Wake Forest, I don't know how this argument can even be made.


Redick got hot late but only shot 10-22 and was 5-13 behind the arc. 

Historically he's always had subpar games against WF but when you jack the ball up that many times you're gonna put points on the board.

I still take Redick over Miles though.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>wightnoiser</b>!
> 
> 
> Redick got hot late but only shot 10-22 and was 5-13 behind the arc.
> ...


He stepped up his game when his team needed him the most (especially when Ewing was out). I realize he had a tough stretch during the game, but I can't ask for much more.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

I can not decide which one b/c they play two differnet positions.

If between Miles another point guard, yes I would pick one or the other.


If between Redick and another off guard/wing guard then I would pick one or the other.

Between the two, I would rather have Reddick.

If you take both players out of their teams, Miles means more to his team than Reddick does to his. Meaning KU would lose more game than Duke would lose more games


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kansasalumn</b>!
> 
> If you take both players out of their teams, Miles means more to his team than Reddick does to his. Meaning KU would lose more game than Duke would lose more games


And how exactly would you support this statement?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Truth</b>!
> 
> 
> And how exactly would you support this statement?


Well he better not have Kansas in his preseason top 25 next year, because apparently the loss of Miles will be devestating if he is SO important to his team,


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## BrYaNBaIlEy06 (Jul 15, 2003)

Miles


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Truth</b>!
> 
> 
> From personal experience, most of the KU fans I've known don't realize basketball exists outside of Lawrence, Kansas, much less the Big 12.


I live in Lawrence, Kansas, and I must say this: to mistake fanatacism for naivete is, ironically, naive.



> After Redick's performance last night against Wake Forest, I don't know how this argument can even be made.


This isn't a poll to see who's better. This is a poll to see who you'd start your team with. I don't think us "whorish" Kansas fans are the only fans in the world who realize the importance (and relative rarity) of an excellent all-around point guard.

But then again, maybe we're just delusional.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> I live in Lawrence, Kansas, and I must say this: to mistake fanatacism for naivete is, ironically, naive.
> ...


Actually it's not a poll to see who you'd start your team with. The question was if you could have either Miles or Redick on your team, who would you take.

And I wasn't talking about you being a homer, I was talking about personal experience (as I said). If it was directed to any poster here, it would be to Kansasalum.

You don't have to tell a Duke fan about the importance of a great all-around point guard; Steve Wojciechowski is my all-time favorite athlete.

While an all-around point-guard is rare, is it nearly as rare as a player with Redick's scoring ability? Redick is leading the best conference in the nation in scoring by more than four points a game. He can singlehandedly take over a game (as demonstrated last night) and he is the best free throw shooter OF ALL TIME. Opposing defensive game plans are centered around stopping Redick (do you really think KU opponents base their defense around stopping Miles?). Redick is absolutely a unique talent.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Truth</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually it's not a poll to see who you'd start your team with. The question was if you could have either Miles or Redick on your team, who would you take.
> ...


Points taken. Good analysis. Like I said, Redick is having a MONSTER season and is a legit POY candidate. Which is spectacular seeing as how so many wrote him off in years past as a one-dimensional shooter. His ability to score outside of shooting from deep has really been extraordinary.


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

Will Redick have a chance at the NBA or is he heading to Europe??


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Chef</b>!
> Will Redick have a chance at the NBA or is he heading to Europe??


_see_ http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74296&forumid=8


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TonyM</b>!
> 
> 
> _see_ http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74296&forumid=8


Thanks... It looks like he will come to Europe...


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Doubt it


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I haven't been high on Reddick in the past, but this season I am starting to think JJ has a future in the league. Now hopefully no team is stupid enough to spend a mid-first rounder on the guy like the Cavs did with Trajan Langdon, but JJ can be a solid shooting specialist/combo guy off the bench. His release is so quick, and more importantly, he is showing some ball skills this year as well. I'm not sure where he gets drafted (late first maybe a stretch, but you never know), but I like his chances of making a career out of it in the NBA. If not, he can go to Europe and be an absolutely dominant player.


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