# Best program to never win the championship



## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

So now that SU won last year (who were arguably that team entering the 02/03 season), what team earns that title.

Some considerations
1) Historical Success
2) Modern Success (last 20 years)
3) Legit Shot at Earning the title Someday (No Ivy League Programs)


Off the top of my head: St. John's, Missouri, Memphis????? 

I have no clue, I must be overlooking some teams.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Missouri is DEFINITELY the best program never to make it to the final 4.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Missouri holds the record for most Tourney appearances (65) without a Final Four.

Congrats.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Temple, St. John's and Purdue


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## WKU Topper Jeff (Jun 9, 2003)

Western Kentucky University. Top 15 winningest program, top 10 winning precentage, 19 NCAA trips, only 1 Final Four


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>WKU Topper Jeff</b>!
> Western Kentucky University. Top 15 winningest program, top 10 winning precentage, 19 NCAA trips, only 1 Final Four


I think I'll have to agree with you. Florida could also be considered.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WKU Topper Jeff</b>!
> Western Kentucky University. Top 15 winningest program, top 10 winning precentage, 19 NCAA trips, only 1 Final Four


I would say Mizzou over them any day. 

You think they'd have those numbers if they played in the Big 8 all those years?


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## xubrew (Dec 17, 2002)

what about memphis??

if the world had ended in 1986, i'd have to put houston up there as well.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Was there as big a disparity between the current power conferences and the other conferences in the 60's and 70's as compared to now?


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Florida


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Truth</b>!
> 
> 
> I would say Mizzou over them any day.
> ...


first off welcome back.

I agree with you here. My number one choice would be Missouri Tigers as the best program that never won a championship. Then Temple


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> Was there as big a disparity between the current power conferences and the other conferences in the 60's and 70's as compared to now?


Not easy to say because many teams have shifted conferences over the years. 

The Big East wasn't even formed until the Early 80's. Some programs were independent, while others like the ACC were solid. 

I think the conference re-shuffling eventually needs to end and everyone just settle on where they are. 

Glad to see the SEC and the Big 12 are going to stay the same. I hope the Pac-10 does the same thing and never looks to expand.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it is called money money. these schools move b/c of money and expousure (sp)


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## WKU Topper Jeff (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> Was there as big a disparity between the current power conferences and the other conferences in the 60's and 70's as compared to now?



Good point, I was going to make that point as well. Only in the last 20 years has this gap been created. Thanks to ESPN and BCS. :upset:


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> Not easy to say because many teams have shifted conferences over the years.
> ...


Well I knew that there had been significant changes. 

My question was whether the power conferences (during that time) were clear cut , and whether there advantage over other conferences was as much as it is now.

And I think Jeff answered it for me.


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## BrYaNBaIlEy06 (Jul 15, 2003)

Mississippi State


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## Pistolballer (May 9, 2003)

Colgate!!!
lol, Temple Florida or Missouri... im leaning in the direction of Temple though


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## mateer (Mar 26, 2003)

*you guys are joking right?*

Mizzou? I'd take Purdue over them. Florida has been good for 10 years they don't belong in this coversation. Plenty of other SEC teams you'd could compare them to but none would qualify as the best program not to win it except for the obvious one: LSU (Why hasn't anyone mentioned them?). 

1. St. Johns
2. Temple
3. Wake Forest 
4. LSU
5. Providence
6. Purdue (maybe Illinois or Iowa) I'll let the big 10 fans settle this one. All three of them are higher then Mizzou or Florida.

WKU I would have your back at this level, except I don't know if Western can win one anymore--maybe if you make it to the A10 one day. 

Anyway, all the above teams have good (and great) years over the last 20 and made noise over last 50 years in the tourney. The top 4 have all been ranked #1 (or 2 for long stretches) in the past 23 years with decent tourney runs and premier players. I heisitate to rank one over the next. Missouri doesn't have half the resume of those guys. Florida has a couple of final fours and recent success but over the long haul? No not a chance. Let's play a little name game: Lon Kruger, Billy Donovan vs. Frank McGuire, Louie Carnesca, Dale Brown, John Chaney, Bones McKinney, Rick Pitino. Mike Miller, Andrew DeClerc vs. Pistol Pete, Chris Jackson, Shaq, Chris Mullin, Mark Jackson, Felipe Lopez, Malik Sealy, Tim Duncan, Randolph Childres, Rodney Rogers, Mugsy Bouges, Mark Macon, Eddie Jones, Lynn Greer. 

-If somebody brings up Derrick Chievous I'll laugh my *** off. I hope you guys are just making a mistake by accident and don't actually believe it.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: you guys are joking right?*



> Originally posted by <b>mateer</b>!
> Let's play a little name game: Lon Kruger, Billy Donovan vs. Frank McGuire, Louie Carnesca, Dale Brown, John Chaney, Bones McKinney, Rick Pitino. Mike Miller, Andrew DeClerc vs. Pistol Pete, Chris Jackson, Shaq, Chris Mullin, Mark Jackson, Felipe Lopez, Malik Sealy, Tim Duncan, Randolph Childres, Rodney Rogers, Mugsy Bouges, Mark Macon, Eddie Jones, Lynn Greer.


What no Ronnie Henderson (LSU), Mark Karcher (Temple), Tony Rutland (Wake) or Zendon Hamilton (St. John's)? 

I still stand by St. John's, Temple and Purdue. In Temple and Purdue's case, never even been to a Final Four.


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## mateer (Mar 26, 2003)

Final Fours
Temple recently just missed and went to the final four in '56, '58.
Purdue lost in the finals in '69 and went in '80.
Providence '87, '73.
SJU '85 and lost in the finals of '52.
LSU '53, '81, '86

Florida '94 and '00.
Missouri 0.
-I'm really only going after those two programs because they just don't match up historically to the others. Wake went in '62 (McKinney and Chappell I believe) and had some great teams recently.

Another team I'd throw in is Texas (couple of early FFs and last year) and Houston who had the run in the 80s and one other in the late 60s. Still, in today's landscape it's unlikely Houston will win another.

 Incidentially, I deleted Zendan Hamilton but I did consider him.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> Mizzou? I'd take Purdue over them. Florida has been good for 10 years they don't belong in this coversation. Plenty of other SEC teams you'd could compare them to but none would qualify as the best program not to win it except for the obvious one: LSU (Why hasn't anyone mentioned them?).


LSU wasn't mentioned because they've had their fair share of down year's... Your right that Florida doesn't belong on that list... I'm a Florida grad, and I'll admit watching my older bro's 94 Final Four team made me sick... Brian Thompson, Jason Anderson and DeClercq, man they were trash... Florida didn't really step on the map untill J.Will arrived wit Donovan from Marshall... Seriously though... I wouldn't consider Providence on that list either.



> Let's play a little name game: Lon Kruger, Billy Donovan vs. Frank McGuire, Louie Carnesca, Dale Brown, John Chaney, Bones McKinney, Rick Pitino. Mike Miller, Andrew DeClerc vs. Pistol Pete, Chris Jackson, Shaq, Chris Mullin, Mark Jackson, Felipe Lopez, Malik Sealy, Tim Duncan, Randolph Childres, Rodney Rogers, Mugsy Bouges, Mark Macon, Eddie Jones, Lynn Greer.


You can add Randy Livingston(LSU), Aaron McKie(Temp), Rusty Larue(Wake), Stanley Roberts(LSU), God Shamgod(Providence), Eric Wiliams(Providence), Cuonzo Martin(Purdue), Ron Artest(St. Johns) and Josh Howard(Wake) to that list also


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

How about Anthony Glover from St. John's. I swear thay guy was in college for about 9 years. I think he was on that 85 final four team


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## TruCrimson (Apr 21, 2003)

Temple


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## NeverNervous (Nov 12, 2003)

I'd have to go with Purdue. Western Kentucky is really not a choice now because I don't think you can say they have a legitimate shot at winning it now barring some miracle. Florida is exactly the opposite, they sucked for many many years before getting to be a solid program recently.


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## Zach (May 11, 2003)

recent success wise what about Oklahoma? they been pretty good last couple years and didnt win it all


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vykyng Pwr90</b>!
> recent success wise what about Oklahoma? they been pretty good last couple years and didnt win it all


actually you right. However, I think they may had won a Helms Championship once, Hollis, can you check that out? If they have not, then you can add Oklahoma as one of the top programs that never won a championship. 

If no one knows the Helms was the Championships before the NCAA's. A lot of people do not realize that. If you look at who won the Helms then maybe one of the above teams mention has won the championship. I have not done any researd for the teams mention above yet, but remember teh Helms was the National Championship before the NCAA's


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kansasalumn</b>!
> 
> 
> actually you right. However, I think they may had won a Helms Championship once, Hollis, can you check that out? If they have not, then you can add Oklahoma as one of the top programs that never won a championship.
> ...


I am positive you are thinking of Oklahoma A&M which won the title in 1945 and 1946. Oklahoma A&M went on to become Oklahoma State. They were coached by HOF Henry Iba.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Good point KansasAlum.

Let's only consider the modern / NCAA era (post Helms) for the case of simplicity in this thread.

For example, it was said several times that Syracuse won its first ever championship last year, but really it was their first NCAA championship. They had won in the 20's.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

as painful as this is to say it is probablly Mizzou


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I almost feel bad for John Chaney. It seems the stress from the lack of a Final Four keeps preventing him from completing the knot on his tie.


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## Tigerfan_2002 (Nov 29, 2003)

I would go with Memphis. They would of won in '73 if they didn't run into the unstopable UCLA Bruins in the Finals. Been to a couple of Final Fours and have a good chance at getting back soon with John Calipari recruiting the way he is.


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## Arsenal (Jul 18, 2002)

Agreed, Florida definitely does not belong in the conversation.

LSU has never one it? That's surprising. For the years with Pistol Pete and then with Shaq, you've got to put them up close to the list.

Even though I'm an Irish fan, I think you'd have to give ND some consideration. Most of you weren't around back in the 70's and early 80's, but Digger Phelps and ND were one of the top 5 programs back then, year in and year out. They had some pretty bad years from the late 80's to just a few years ago, when Matt Doherty took over.

Austin Carr, Adrian Dantley, Bill Laimbeer, David Rivers, Troy Murphey, LaPhanso Ellis, the list goes on and on.


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