# Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (RICK BUCHER ON!!)



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Just a heads up that Courtside Monday Night is on tonight. 6:00-7:30. I wouldnt be surprised if Nash was a guest on the show.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL*

Nash will be a guest. Should be interesting.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL*



BEER&BASKETBALL said:


> Nash will be a guest. Should be interesting.


I wonder if there will be an email from our very own *"Hapster"* tonight as well?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL*



HOWIE said:


> I wonder if there will be an email from our very own *"Hapster"* tonight as well?


probably, once I let things sink, and realize that this trade did one important thing that out-weighs (I hope) the loss lof Serg-protector.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL*

Here's the live stream link

http://kxl.com/listenpop.htm


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL*

Soooooooo...............................Pritchard changed the deal - convinced Nash to get Skinner instead of Vitaly Potapenko, eh?


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*

Nash saying don't expect him to acquire any above average players before the summer of 2007.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*

wow, did anyone hear Nash's refernce to how ruben plays baskebtall?

"(ruben) plays like we did in the 3rd grade. Just chase after the ball, and charge at the rim"

thats pretty accurate. Ruben plays like he has no concept of how to play team ball or any plays. just bull your way to the hoop, and hope it scores.


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*



> Nash saying don't expect him to acquire any above average players before the summer of 2007.


And Nash's assumption - and this is a hell of an assumption - is that a quality free agent in that summer two years from now will actually want to play for a piece of crap team that hasn't been to the playoffs in five years and consistently brings in less than 5,000 fans per game.

:curse:

Get rid of this dolt, please.

-Pop


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*



Hap said:


> wow, did anyone hear Nash's refernce to how ruben plays baskebtall?
> 
> "(ruben) plays like we did in the 3rd grade. Just chase after the ball, and charge at the rim"
> 
> thats pretty accurate. Ruben plays like he has no concept of how to play team ball or any plays. just bull your way to the hoop, and hope it scores.


Nash's M.O. has been to trash players after they are traded away. Not exactly the best way to endear yourself to future free agents or other general managers in the league.

-Pop


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*

As we (hopefully) :gopray: luck into the first pick of that draft, the year of the Oden?


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*

Another thing Nash has said is that basically there's no shot in hell we're going to entertain resigning Voshon Lenard or Brian Skinner. Again, not the best way to endear yourself to the new players. And an easy way to show your hand at the proverbial poker table this offseason.

Ugh.

Is there any reason to think this guy has any redeeming qualities as a GM?

-Pop


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*



SodaPopinski said:


> Nash's M.O. has been to trash players after they are traded away. Not exactly the best way to endear yourself to future free agents or other general managers in the league.
> 
> -Pop


I don't recall him trashing Shareef (classy person).

he's "trashed" idiots (and in reality, it's mostly what is true. Bonzi was a dumb ***, Ruben was a dumb ***..Sheed i don't remember what he said..Damon was a dumb ***, and DA was a whiner)


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*

Nash's quote of the night: He said it was sometimes there were difficult situations in trying to get DA to play when he was in Louisville for two or three weeks getting a second opinion on his "injuries." :laugh:

He said that Houston experienced some of the same issues.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Mike Kahn said you can call the Blazers _Free Bird_ now.

They just got Lenard/Skinner. :laugh:


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*



SodaPopinski said:


> Nash's M.O. has been to trash players after they are traded away. Not exactly the best way to endear yourself to future free agents or other general managers in the league.
> 
> -Pop



I hear you. Bad business . . . Nash your not a 20-30 year old basketball player, you are a GM. Who cares what the players says, handle the situation with class.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Whats wrong with calling them like they are? What he said about Ruben is the truth, its not like its an insult. Thats the way Ruben plays. Its also the reason he was a one dimensional player that would never achieve the level of play you need to compete for a championship. So whats wrong with calling a spade a spade? Especially one that went so far out of his way to infuriate management. So what if he did the same thing with Damon. Damon was a total tool as well who probably was a big part of the reason the team was torn apart like it was. Maybe if it weren't for losers like Damon, the team might have faired a lot better both on the court, and in the eyes of the law for several years. I could care less if he calls those guys losers, because they are. They did nothing good for this franchise, and don't deserve to be held in the limelight.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*



ABM said:


> Nash saying don't expect him to acquire any above average players before the summer of 2007.


I'm willing to go out on a limb and extend that lack of expectation indefinitely. :biggrin:


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Nash wants Morrison.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Samuel said:


> Nash wants Morrison.


He sure had some nice things to say about Morrison!

Too bad they didn't talk about other draft picks (JJ, Bargnani, etc ...)


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## sabas4mvp (Sep 23, 2002)

Hap, way to let Ruben have it. :banana:


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

wastro said:


> He sure had some nice things to say about Morrison!
> 
> Too bad they didn't talk about other draft picks (JJ, Bargnani, etc ...)


Considering Allen gets the Seattle papers (with their coverage of the Zags) I'd be surprised if they opted for anyone BUT Morrison if he was available at their pick.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Haps email.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*



SodaPopinski said:


> Another thing Nash has said is that basically there's no shot in hell we're going to entertain resigning Voshon Lenard or Brian Skinner.


So now there's no way Skinner plays like his team-option will get picked up with good play?

Greaaaaat. Way to go Nash. :curse:


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

hasoos said:


> Whats wrong with calling them like they are? What he said about Ruben is the truth, its not like its an insult. Thats the way Ruben plays. Its also the reason he was a one dimensional player that would never achieve the level of play you need to compete for a championship. So whats wrong with calling a spade a spade? Especially one that went so far out of his way to infuriate management. So what if he did the same thing with Damon. Damon was a total tool as well who probably was a big part of the reason the team was torn apart like it was. Maybe if it weren't for losers like Damon, the team might have faired a lot better both on the court, and in the eyes of the law for several years. I could care less if he calls those guys losers, because they are. They did nothing good for this franchise, and don't deserve to be held in the limelight.



IMO, it doesn't show a lot of class. If I was an agent and talking to a player, I would warn the player that the Blazer organization is not very professional and don't be suprised that if things go sour, the GM could end up trashing you on the way out of town.

The players were traded and now are out of the organization. What does Nash gain by bad mouthing players? To me he is trying to justify his moves, which sounds a little insecure and if nothing else, again very classless. I think he should take the high road, give a mild complement about the player and move on.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sabas4mvp said:


> Hap, way to let Ruben have it. :banana:


MB kind of cleaned up what I said too.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> IMO, it doesn't show a lot of class. If I was an agent and talking to a player, I would warn the player that the Blazer organization is not very professional and don't be suprised that if things go sour, the GM could end up trashing you on the way out of town.
> 
> The players were traded and now are out of the organization. What does Nash gain by bad mouthing players? To me he is trying to justify his moves, which sounds a little insecure and if nothing else, again very classless. I think he should take the high road, give a mild complement about the player and move on.


No wonder seemingly every former Blazer who comes into the Garden goes off.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Nash attended the Jeff McInnis School of Professionalism. :biggrin: 

But seriously folks, he must have loved these guys.

He's done everything he could possibly do to assure that they all ended up on better teams than ours.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Samuel said:


> No wonder seemingly every former Blazer who comes into the Garden goes off.


what former Blazers, gone because of Nash, has gone off on the Blazers?

Most of the former blazers who went off against the Blazers, were former Blazers under Trader Bob.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> Nash attended the Jeff McInnis School of Professionalism. :biggrin:
> 
> But seriously folks, he must have loved these guys.
> 
> He's done everything he could possibly do to assure that they all ended up on better teams than ours.



All he had to do was trade them to assure that. :biggrin:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> Nash attended the Jeff McInnis School of Professionalism. :biggrin:
> 
> But seriously folks, he must have loved these guys.
> 
> He's done everything he could possibly do to assure that they all ended up on better teams than ours.


well, Nash _did_ trade Rasheed to a worse team than us..

but at least he didn't trade any of our players to a team that then went on to win the title (coughcoughTraderBobdcoughcough). :angel:


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I missed this, is there anyway I can listen to it after the fact...?


also, what did they say about Morrison?

Thanks.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Hap said:


> well, Nash _did_ trade Rasheed to a worse team than us..


...Thereby starting the slide that made us (even) worse than them.



> but at least he didn't trade any of our players to a team that then went on to win the title (coughcoughTraderBobdcoughcough). :angel:


Presumably you mean Drexler. Yes, heaven forbid a GM send the star that has carried the franchise for years to the destination of his choice. THAT'S not the way to endear yourself to prospective players. Oh wait a minute - maybe it is.

Can we fire Nash before he screws up another draft?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

meru said:


> ...Thereby starting the slide that made us (even) worse than them.


so, that 16 wins for Atlanta, in a weaker conference, makes us worse than atlanta? 

They're in a bad situation, just like we are. Full of young unprovent players, and yet, they're better off why? Oh I know, they're not us.

however, the trade of rasheed sped up the Lakers collapse.

which is fun to watch.



> Presumably you mean Drexler. Yes, heaven forbid a GM send the star that has carried the franchise for years to the destination of his choice. THAT'S not the way to endear yourself to prospective players. Oh wait a minute - maybe it is.
> 
> Can we fire Nash before he screws up another draft?


let's give nash a little more than not even 1 and 2 years before we declare his drafts "screwed" up.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

The thing, IMO, about Nash talking smack is how silly it looks.

He's managed to drive a pretty good team and an excellent franchise out of the realm of competitiveness incredibly fast. He hasn't drafted a single player that's emerged as a starter.

He's basically sucked, and he's taken shots at a lot of guys.

If the Blazers were riding high and Nash was earning his money? It would lack class, but at least his smack would have some credibility. Now? He looks like a buffoon.

I didn't hear what he said about Ruben tonight, but what does it say about the team that HE has built that a guy he had such a low opinion of was one of the team's best players?

Ed O.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

If nash doesnt get morrison or baragani im gonna be pissed off.I emailed him tonight asking him about those 2 and asking him what position is he thinking of drafting c,pf sf pg all i got back was thanks for ur support.I like ben gordan on yahoo it said he wants out i think we should trade webster,lenard in the offseason if its capable


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Hap said:


> let's give nash a little more than not even 1 and 2 years before we declare his drafts "screwed" up.


Fair to say Monia was a screw up, or should we wait two more years to see if he develops. :biggrin:


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: Courtside Monday Night - on tonight - KXL (NASH ON!!)*



SodaPopinski said:


> And Nash's assumption - and this is a hell of an assumption - is that a quality free agent in that summer two years from now will actually want to play for a piece of crap team that hasn't been to the playoffs in five years and consistently brings in less than 5,000 fans per game.
> 
> :curse:
> 
> ...



Wait a minute..wasn't he talking about last summer's crop and the summer's before that and saying that's when all the action was going to happen?

When is this mythical summer of free agents running in a never-ending sprint to the Portland city gates?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Fair to say Monia was a screw up, or should we wait two more years to see if he develops. :biggrin:


well, he was never actually given an opportunity.

not all players develop at the same time.

btw, (not at you KMD) when people compare Paul to Telfair it reminded me of something funny. We never hear people comparing Jordan to Drexler, but instead Jordan to Bowie. Drexler didn't exactly start off guns blazing either (especially in comparison to Jordan). 

Had we gotten certain things to bounce our way (Sabonis for one) I bet we wouldn't have cared about not getting Jordan. 

it's what the team does from now forward that can make not drafting Paul bad or good.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> well, he was never actually given an opportunity.


Does a GM get credit for a good pick if that player eventually becomes a good NBA player, or if the GM's team is able to extract good value out of that player?

I think that the latter is much more important. As a measurement of talent evaluation, clearly the former matters.

But if Monia goes onto be an all-star, and it IS possible if unlikely, does that make Nash a better GM? Or his drafts better? Almost certainly not and maybe, respectively.

It's too early to call Nash's drafts a bust, but considering he's had two lottery picks and 5 first rounders in the past two years to not have drafted a SINGLE starter is an almost amazing feat.

Ed O.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Hey! I just now got an email from the Blazers!:

“These moves provide our organization some salary cap flexibility,” said Nash. “While helping balance the roster, today’s trade adds another big man and gives us a player who is a proven shooter in this league.” 


"Another big man" who you just told on KXL you have no intention of rewarding by extending his contract this summer. Bet he's feeling smaller already.

"A player who is a proven shooter in this league" in the same sense that Bobby Gross is a proven shooter in this league. Lenard hasn't been "in this league" for 2 years now.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Monia already proved he was the best defender against SG's that we had.

We've been getting lit up by them ever since he lost his starting spot.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Ed O said:


> Does a GM get credit for a good pick if that player eventually becomes a good NBA player, or if the GM's team is able to extract good value out of that player?
> 
> I think that the latter is much more important. As a measurement of talent evaluation, clearly the former matters.
> 
> ...


and only one of those 5 draft picks went to college...

He drafted them as long term investments knowing they were years away....


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I wish we wouldn't have given up on Monia so fast. I felt like he was solid enough to be a good contributor and he showed that he had a well rounded game in his limited action. I guess management saw things differently.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Does a GM get credit for a good pick if that player eventually becomes a good NBA player, or if the GM's team is able to extract good value out of that player?
> 
> I think that the latter is much more important. As a measurement of talent evaluation, clearly the former matters.
> 
> ...


technically, he did draft on starter, but since the team sucks so bad and he got hurt, they needed to "replace" him with a "better player". ..

but as for the bit about being too early, I think thats true. I don't think that we can really say one way or the other.

NOW, that being said if he's still here after this season and drafts a player that does the same thing that the last 2 draft picks have (Telfair/Webster) AND those picks aren't showing any signs, we're onto something.

But if he drafts a player (since he's my "choice" I'm going to say Morrison) and he comes in and right away shows good signs, and the other guys start to show more and more, that'll ease the pain of the last 2 picks.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I understand the thinking of letting Monia go....

We have an excess of SF's and we had to decide on who we really feel has a solid future in the league, Monia evidently was last on that list (as well as last on mine) and this is also a means of freeing up space to go after a good SF in a draft with a plethora of SF's....


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> He drafted them as long term investments knowing they were years away....


 So why trade one, or was that your point?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> So why trade one, or was that your point?


to clear up space on the roster for a better SF in this years draft.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> to clear up space on the roster for a better SF in this years draft.


 So you draft players you figure will take years to develop. Draft five of these players. Then get rid of one to make room for another draft pick, before knowing if the draft pick you got rid of will actually develop. With a little thought, couldn't he have foreseen this issue.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> So you draft players you figure will take years to develop. Draft five of these players. Then get rid of one to make room for another draft pick, before knowing if the draft pick you got rid of will actually develop. With a little thought, couldn't he have foreseen this issue.


yep, so they should've not re-signed Darius because in 3 years they might be able to draft a really good SF that no one knew about.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Hap said:


> yep, so they should've not re-signed Darius because in 3 years they might be able to draft a really good SF that no one knew about.


 I'm sure that is clever response, but I actually miss your point (it's been a long day). 

So my question is (in all seriousness) why take on five players that you know will take time to develop only to basically give one away before you know if they develop? You are a big advocate of giving players time, don't you think it is strange to trade a player before you know if they will develop?

I get the response that Nash needed to make room for another draft pick, but it seems to me he should have thought about that at the time he took on so many players that needed time. What am I missing . . . I'm sure you will let me know. :biggrin:


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

All this sudden love for Monia is laughable to me....

He wasn't that good guys...He was tentative...foul prone...and his outside shooting (supposedly a strength) was spotty at best....He looked slightly less lost than Outlaw, which isn't saying much for him, the guy was a non factor on the floor a majority of the time....

Yeah maybe he ends up having an NBA career longer than his rookie contract, but I would be highly surprised if he is anything more than a reserve\scrub...

Having said that I most certainly think Nash screwed up here...He basically took a good move (Acquiring NJ pick for cash) and flushed it down the drain IMO...but he did that the moment he drafted Monia NOT when he traded him...

Basically POR traded Monia to "upgrade" from Potapenko to Skinner...Now I think Skinner is a better player, but I am not convinced the price to get him was worth Monia, particularly if POR is just going to waive the guy at the 1st opportunity they get.

Nash screwed up on that draft day...Why on earth would you draft Khryapa AND Monia? That was just a dumb...DUMB decision...

Delonte West, Kevin Martin, David Harrison, Anderson Varejao, Tony Allen, Beno Udrih....

All these guys were available...Harrison in particular I recall POR needing another big man....OH but we took Ha in the 2nd round...oh joy...

The bottom line is POR should have NEVER drafted Monia in the 1st place...heck....they never even had the guy in for a workout....

Can we count on Nash to make the right draft decision this year? I am not so sure...


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I'm sure that is clever response, but I actually miss your point (it's been a long day).
> 
> So my question is (in all seriousness) why take on five players that you know will take time to develop only to basically give one away before you know if they develop? You are a big advocate of giving players time, don't you think it is strange to trade a player before you know if they will develop?
> 
> I get the response that Nash needed to make room for another draft pick, but it seems to me he should have thought about that at the time he took on so many players that needed time. What am I missing . . . I'm sure you will let me know. :biggrin:


You're missing:

He never should have extended come-to-work-high-I've-already-made-it-it's-just-a-game-no-big-deal-if-we-lose-I've-got-a-nice-car Darius Miles and then when he had the chance to dump him off to NY he should have pulled the trigger.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> You're missing:
> 
> He never should have extended come-to-work-high-I've-already-made-it-it's-just-a-game-no-big-deal-if-we-lose-I've-got-a-nice-car Darius Miles and then when he had the chance to dump him off to NY he should have pulled the trigger.


 Ok so either way, Nash didn't really plan for the future.

Funny, put all those word in front of Sheed's name and it fits. Yet you were a big fan of Sheed. You're not going righteous on us are you?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I'm sure that is clever response, but I actually miss your point (it's been a long day).
> 
> So my question is (in all seriousness) why take on five players that you know will take time to develop only to basically give one away before you know if they develop? You are a big advocate of giving players time, don't you think it is strange to trade a player before you know if they will develop?


Well, I'd bet that they have a good idea whether or not he'll develop or not. Maybe not, but maybe so. I say it depends on what ranking you have that player, and how much of another need you need. In that if you think that Sergei could be something good, BUT you have a player you think might be better (say Webster). So you think that trading Sergei might not be a bad idea, because you do need a backup PF, and there might be a player in the draft the next year who could be better than any of your SF's you have period.

So, despite the fact you think that the player you gave up (Serg-protector) could be a decent player, the players you have ahead of him (webster) could be better, or a player in the draft might be better (Morrison? Gay?). Of course, this could end up biting the team in the butt, if Serg turns into a really good SG for the Kings, and Webster or Gay or Morrison suck.

I'm not sure if I'm saying what I mean very well. 




> I get the response that Nash needed to make room for another draft pick, but it seems to me he should have thought about that at the time he took on so many players that needed time. What am I missing . . . I'm sure you will let me know. :biggrin:


it's always good to get peices, especially with the 23rd(?) pick in the 1st round. 

My point about not knowing 3 years in advance is in answer to this. You're saying he shouldn't have taken on so many players that needed time. Well, he probably drafted Serg, and had Viktor drafted for us, because we didn't expect to be able to get (potentially) gay or morrison in 2006. I doubt he drafted Webster thinking he shouldn't because next year we might get one of those two (especially since Morrison wasn't near the player he is now). 

So, it's kind of bad to not draft a player because you might get a player that is the same position. Also, it's pointless to not draft someone because the next year someone, who might be available, even though you have no way of knowing one way or the other if you're going to able draft him.

read: they shuoldn't have avoided telfair and webster because the next drafts could've netted paul or morrison. 

It's taking a risk that very dangerous. What happens if they don't draft Viktor and Sergei because they want to wait for Morrison or Gay 2 years later, but don't get either?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Kmurph said:


> Having said that I most certainly think Nash screwed up here...He basically took a good move (Acquiring NJ pick for cash) and flushed it down the drain IMO...but he did that the moment he drafted Monia NOT when he traded him...


Monia was the Bonzi Wells trade, Viktor was the Nets pick.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Miles, Travis, and Viktor are all currently better NBA basketball players than Monia, and every single one of them has the potential (given proper coaching and play-time) to stay better NBA basketball players than Monia. MUCH better in some cases.

Webster is, in all fairness, currently on par with Monia as an NBA basketball player, and has the potential (given proper coaching and play-time) to become a MUCH better NBA basketball player than Monia.

So we've got 4 players still on the roster at the positions Monia seems most suited for who are at least as good as Monia is now (and 3 of the 4 are better to MUCH better), and who all have the potential to become/stay better than Monia. I really don't see what the fuss is about.

I swear, we Blazers fans hate to let go of anyone who has a whiff of "potential", even when doing so improves the overall balance of the roster. Do we really think Monia is going to come back some day and go Jordan or Jermaine on us???

PBF


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Hey Hap, is that Potapenko in your avatar?

If so, ya might wanna change that.

PBF

*How soon fans forget one of the greatest Trail Blazers to ever lace his boots! Thats Matt Carroll, the People's 6th man!*


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> and only one of those 5 draft picks went to college...
> 
> He drafted them as long term investments knowing they were years away....


He did, huh? He knew Monia was years away and would be given away within a year of being signed?

Webster and Telfair were both high schoolers. Monia and Viktor and Jack are mature for rookies (and second years, in the case of Viktor). That the team has gone 0-5 in terms of getting a guy who is a starter--especially considering how bad this team is--is a black mark against Nash.

Ed O.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> "Another big man" who you just told on KXL you have no intention of rewarding by extending his contract this summer. Bet he's feeling smaller already.


Hmm why would he extend Skinner this summer? That would be really stupid considering dude will be 30 in May, and has 1 more year and then a Team Option Year. So we could at our discretion keephim till he's 32.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Schilly said:


> Hmm why would he extend Skinner this summer? That would be really stupid considering dude will be 30 in May, and has 1 more year and then a Team Option Year. So we could at our discretion keephim till he's 32.


All Skinner has to do is put on his Theo Ratliff mask and Nash won't be able to help himself... he'll sign him to a massive extension ASAP.

Ed O.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> All Skinner has to do is put on his Theo Ratliff mask and Nash won't be able to help himself... he'll sign him to a massive extension ASAP.
> 
> Ed O.


The other thing though is I am not sure that a plyer with a Team option for a following season can be extended until the summer of the Team Option and after it has been picked up.

I'm kinda thinking that people are accusing him of coming up short on things that truely aren't even possible. BTW don't consider that a defense or a vote of confidence, I'm just saying blame for what he can be blamed for, not what we might think is wrong.


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## GrandpaBlaze (Jul 11, 2004)

Schilly said:


> Hmm why would he extend Skinner this summer? That would be really stupid considering dude will be 30 in May, and has 1 more year and then a Team Option Year. So we could at our discretion keephim till he's 32.


The point is not whether we extend him or not, the point is you don't immediately tell the new incoming guy that "we really don't think you are worth much and have no intention whatsoever of keeping you around longer than we have to".

It is one thing to bring a guy in and welcome him with open arms knowing that you really don't plan on keeping him longer than required. It is another thing to tell a guy, "You're here because you are all we could get for one of our malcontents and some throw ins. We don't _really_ want you but here you are anyway."

Similarly, his comments in regard to Ruben, although in many aspects true, I find appalling. Why not say something like "Ruben has always given his all, we could always count on him to go all out in every game and every situation. I hope he prospers in Denver". 

One approach goes a long way to exhibiting a concern and appreciation for players and the other shows players, agents and GM's that you really don't give a hoot about players as people, they are simply low-life pawns and are to be treated as such. If I were Joel, I'd be fairly reluctant to resign with Portland this summer if Nash is still the GM.

Gramps...


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Ok so either way, Nash didn't really plan for the future.
> 
> Funny, put all those word in front of Sheed's name and it fits. Yet you were a big fan of Sheed. You're not going righteous on us are you?


Sheed was a team player and always gave 100% on the court. Ask anyone who played with him.

He felt very strongly about competing but probably eventually tired of all the criticism he got for technicals when he really got into the game.

I have nothing against Marijuana use, but not on the job. You're getting paid to be 100% there.
And I don't think he ever played stoned. He kept his off-court life seperate from his on-court life.

I see Miles as a lazy coaster who really doesn't care about winning. And he looks wasted half the time, like Damon used to before he "reformed".


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Ok Fair enough....But Nash wasn't lying when *he* said he had no intention as I find it likely that *he * he won't be around making that call this summer anyway.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

If this was Penny Hardaway and Nash said we weren't thinking of extending him, would anyone give a ****?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Schilly said:


> Ok Fair enough....But Nash wasn't lying when *he* said he had no intention as I find it likely that [/b] he won't be around making that call this summer anyway.


take off the tin foil hat Schilly..

why would the guys who are making the decisions then just out-vote him and get who they want via a trade, if they really want him gone/aren't going to keep him?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Ed O said:


> He did, huh? He knew Monia was years away and would be given away within a year of being signed?
> 
> Webster and Telfair were both high schoolers. Monia and Viktor and Jack are mature for rookies (and second years, in the case of Viktor). That the team has gone 0-5 in terms of getting a guy who is a starter--especially considering how bad this team is--is a black mark against Nash.
> 
> Ed O.


No but he knew Monia could be a tradeable asset to a team after a year or so if things didn't seem like they were going to work out or we had better options to choose from....

and do you seriously expect guys picked in the 20's to be immediate starters in the league, or heck even starters after 2 years in the league....of course there is always exceptions but I doubt a majority of players picked in the 20's are starters, more likely they are role players...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> If this was Penny Hardaway and Nash said we weren't thinking of extending him, would anyone give a ****?


Hardaway wouldn't even have suited up for the Blazers. He was just a contract.

Presumably the reason we sent Monia out to "upgrade" from Potapenko to Skinner is because the Blazers think he's a better player, and will rely on his on-court contributions.

Immediately slagging the player who's the key to the deal for the Blazers doesn't make much sense. Again, I didn't hear the comments Nash made but I think that the argument is sound if Nash said what others here are implying.

Ed O.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Ed O said:


> The thing, IMO, about Nash talking smack is how silly it looks.
> 
> He's managed to drive a pretty good team and an excellent franchise out of the realm of competitiveness incredibly fast. He hasn't drafted a single player that's emerged as a starter.
> 
> ...


A more immediately negative effect will be on the current players, some of whom LIKE Ruben. Even the ones who aren't close to him have to be wondering what will Nash say about me if and when I leave? What is he saying behind my back to reporters and to Patterson and to Nate?

They also have to question what kind of two-bit operation does Paul Allen own if he hires a moron like this guy?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> One approach goes a long way to exhibiting a concern and appreciation for players and the other shows players, agents and GM's that you really don't give a hoot about players as people, they are simply low-life pawns and are to be treated as such. If I were Joel, I'd be fairly reluctant to resign with Portland this summer if Nash is still the GM.


When a player doesn't act professional and doesn't treat the team with respect, why should he get respect back....

Its a two way road...

I think Joel understands that Ruben is an idiot, I think all the players did....Ruben is in his own little world.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> A more immediately negative effect will be on the current players, some of whom LIKE Ruben. Even the ones who aren't close to him have to be wondering what will Nash say about me if and when I leave? What is he saying behind my back to reporters and to Patterson and to Nate?
> 
> They also have to question what kind of two-bit operation does Paul Allen own if he hires a moron like this guy?


 And the big question in my mind is what does Nash have to gain by saying these things?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Hardaway wouldn't even have suited up for the Blazers. He was just a contract.
> 
> Presumably the reason we sent Monia out to "upgrade" from Potapenko to Skinner is because the Blazers think he's a better player, and will rely on his on-court contributions.
> 
> ...


I think that what he said was being over-stated, altho I don't recall exactly what he said. But you have to remember something Ed, both sides of the a coin, tend to exxaggerate things to prove their point.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> No but he knew Monia could be a tradeable asset to a team after a year or so if things didn't seem like they were going to work out or we had better options to choose from....


That's not saying anything. Anyone drafted at that spot "could be a tradeable asset to a team after a year or so if things didn't seem like they were going to work out or we had better options to choose from".

That Monia turned out NOT to be worth anything significant shows that even this forward-thinking backup plan failed.



> and do you seriously expect guys picked in the 20's to be immediate starters in the league, or heck even starters after 2 years in the league....of course there is always exceptions but I doubt a majority of players picked in the 20's are starters, more likely they are role players...


Who's talking immediate starters? And who's talking about a majority? I'm talking about 0-5 over two drafts. Take out the two prep players, if you like, and that's 0-3. On a team this bad, that's a very sad statement about Nash's drafts even at this relatively early date.

Ed O.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> Sheed was a team player and always gave 100% on the court. Ask anyone who played with him.
> 
> He felt very strongly about competing but probably eventually tired of all the criticism he got for technicals when he really got into the game.
> 
> ...


 Darius "sleepy" Miles :biggrin:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> A more immediately negative effect will be on the current players, some of whom LIKE Ruben. Even the ones who aren't close to him have to be wondering what will Nash say about me if and when I leave? What is he saying behind my back to reporters and to Patterson and to Nate?
> 
> They also have to question what kind of two-bit operation does Paul Allen own if he hires a moron like this guy?


Another funny thing about this? That one of the BIG complaints out of Nate all year has been "effort". Guys aren't working, or putting forth whatever...

Well, even if it was sometimes misdirected, Patterson *tried*. He *cared*. He *worked*. 

Compare him to Theo Ratliff, who seems content to sit out every other game, be quiet while his team gets its teeth kicked in, and collect his massive checks every week... which guy is a better example for the rest of the team?

I'm not sure, to be honest. But I think that criticism of Patterson as a player, rather than as a public relations factor, might show the rest of the Blazers that all of the talk of hustle and working hard is just that: talk.

Ed O.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Ed O said:


> Another funny thing about this? That one of the BIG complaints out of Nate all year has been "effort". Guys aren't working, or putting forth whatever...
> 
> Well, even if it was sometimes misdirected, Patterson *tried*. He *cared*. He *worked*.
> 
> ...


Valid point. But when you constantly dis the team, management and the coach . . . I think players might get the fact that those factors can outweigh hustle.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> That Monia turned out NOT to be worth anything significant shows that even this forward-thinking backup plan failed.


exactly and he was the guy they chose...It could have been anybody, he was an asset that we got from the Bonzi deal as a throw in...If it was a better draft pick that we received from them that year it would have been a totally different story...but it wasn't, it was sub-average prospect...



> Who's talking immediate starters? And who's talking about a majority? I'm talking about 0-5 over two drafts. Take out the two prep players, if you like, and that's 0-3. On a team this bad, that's a very sad statement about Nash's drafts even at this relatively *early date*.


Throw in the two high school players who are still not over the age of 21 and a year and a half ago in high school...

Viktor is showing what a #22 pick generally is, a solid role player.

Monia was another player (the worst prospect) of a position that we were loaded with better prospects...

Some people just like to complain to complain, even though in the back of their mind they know that what we gave up most likely won't ever turn into much in the NBA...Do you seriously think that Monia will turn into a stud in the NBA and Outlaw, Webster and Khryapa will be scrubs?


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

I wasn't distraught over the fact they traded Monia. But I do think it is funny that Nash's supposed strenght is drafting and not only have the players not developed thus far, he has already given up on one of his draft picks.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I wasn't distraught over the fact they traded Monia. But I do think it is funny that Nash's supposed strenght is drafting and not only have the players not developed thus far, he has already given up on one of his draft picks.


not sure if you can say he really "gave up" on a pick, or that them trading Monia really disproves anything.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Trading prospects (especially sub-average one's) is part of the game....It happens all the time, I'm surprised so many people are magnifying this so much...


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> Trading prospects (especially sub-average one's) is part of the game....It happens all the time, I'm surprised so many people are magnifying this so much...


 I'm with you 100% ZagFan...

On top of everything you've said, I'm note a huge fan of stock piling young talent. Having all this young talent at the same position doesn't allow anyone to get a long-term chance. 

Even if Monia ends up being good, I really feel like we had to get rid of him or Outlaw, so it was a matter of who was the bigger risk of giving up.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Tince said:


> I'm with you 100% ZagFan...
> 
> On top of everything you've said, I'm note a huge fan of stock piling young talent. Having all this young talent at the same position doesn't allow anyone to get a long-term chance.
> 
> Even if Monia ends up being good, I really feel like we had to get rid of him or Outlaw, so it was a matter of who was the bigger risk of giving up.


It was wrong to put Monia in the deal because we could have made the deal without trading him.

We could have used him in another deal somwhere down the line.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Tince said:


> On top of everything you've said, I'm note a huge fan of stock piling young talent. Having all this young talent at the same position doesn't allow anyone to get a long-term chance.



That was my original beef with all this. Why draft Telfair, Viktor, Monia and Ha all on the same year, no way can you keep all and see if they develop. I though bad planning. But after a night of sleep and not caring about the Blazers too much, I guess it was just a waste of a #23 draft pick . . . it happens.

See I can be pursuaded. : )


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