# KP contradicts his own "vision"



## toutlaw25 (Aug 7, 2005)

KP has done some great things to transform the Blazers over the past year, but the trade for Zach was ridiculous. Not only did we get hosed, but he brought in another guy with character issues. He has not stated that he would buy out Francis, which completely undermines the direction the team was headed. If we keep Francis on this team and even give him a chance to play, I'll never look at KP the same again. Although Zach was an idiot off the court, at least he was productive while he was on the court. The same can't be said for Stevie.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

Just another person thinking they know what Pritchard is doing. Getting REAL old. You don't have a clue...none of us do.


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

The Zach and Francis deal isn't done yet, chill. There's more to come.


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## Rip City Reign (Jul 1, 2007)

toutlaw25 said:


> KP has done some great things to transform the Blazers over the past year, but the trade for Zach was ridiculous. Not only did we get hosed, but he brought in another guy with character issues. He has not stated that he would buy out Francis, which completely undermines the direction the team was headed. If we keep Francis on this team and even give him a chance to play, I'll never look at KP the same again. Although Zach was an idiot off the court, at least he was productive while he was on the court. The same can't be said for Stevie.


The "vision" remains pristine until Francis plays in a Blazer uni. Until then, there is no contradiction.


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## HAAK72 (Jun 18, 2007)

AND...how can you question S.Francis' production on the court?

I don't see him ever wearing a Blazers uni, but I have seen him fill up the stat sheets many times over again...more so than your boy zBO even!


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

toutlaw25 said:


> He has not stated that he would buy out Francis, which completely undermines the direction the team was headed.


Maybe we should wait to see if he actually does buy him out. What he says isn't quite as important as what he does.



> If we keep Francis on this team and even give him a chance to play, I'll never look at KP the same again.


You mean those long, smoldering looks? The lightning flashing between you? The heat of your bodies combining as one? The raw, unrestrained passion of his embrace? 

No? Ok, never mind.

barfo


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## toutlaw25 (Aug 7, 2005)

TP3 said:


> Just another person thinking they know what Pritchard is doing. Getting REAL old. You don't have a clue...none of us do.


I never said I knew what the hell he was doing. He stated he would bring Francis in and talk to him about playing and go from there. If he ever suits up for this team it's a big slap in the face. We could've kept Zach, and I'm not a fan of either one. I'm not completely pissed about the trade, but the fact of the matter is as it stands we traded one bad apple for another. If KP has another deal lined up to fix this, then no biggie. As it stands, we have no intentions of buying him out.


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## HAAK72 (Jun 18, 2007)

OK then you cleary don't understand the BIGGER PICTURE...


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

barfo said:


> Maybe we should wait to see if he actually does buy him out. What he says isn't quite as important as what he does.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Barf, you're priceless man. :lol:


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## toutlaw25 (Aug 7, 2005)

HAAK72 said:


> AND...how can you question S.Francis' production on the court?
> 
> I don't see him ever wearing a Blazers uni, but I have seen him fill up the stat sheets many times over again...more so than your boy zBO even!


He hasn't done crap in three years. His nickname isn't the franchise killer for nothing.


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## toutlaw25 (Aug 7, 2005)

barfo said:


> You mean those long, smoldering looks? The lightning flashing between you? The heat of your bodies combining as one? The raw, unrestrained passion of his embrace?
> 
> No? Ok, never mind.
> 
> barfo


Maybe I should've chosen my words more carefully. I knew you would be the one to take them a mile too far. Touche.


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## toutlaw25 (Aug 7, 2005)

HAAK72 said:


> OK then you cleary don't understand the BIGGER PICTURE...


Well, I must be extremely naive then. Please fill me in. I know you aren't talking about winning, so what is it?


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## HAAK72 (Jun 18, 2007)

Again, you clearly do not understand...


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

toutlaw25 said:


> Maybe I should've chosen my words more carefully. I knew you would be the one to take them a mile too far. Touche.


They don't call me a moderator for nothing. Or wait, maybe they do... 

barfo


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

You are looking at Steve Francis far too much, are you well aware of what else you acquired in that package? If you are, then you already know that you acquired 6'11 Channing Fyre, this would only be his 3rd year in the league, and he has a nice soft shooting touch, and maybe he can play a bit of the 3. In other words, he's the perfect compliment to Greg Oden. Shooters, baby, shooters, that's what it's all about.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

Congrats on 49 posts. Use the search button, or actually read some of the threads that this has been duplicated in again and again.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

toutlaw25 said:


> Well, I must be extremely naive then. Please fill me in. I know you aren't talking about winning, so what is it?


Personal animosity and the almighty dollar. Why would you expect an NBA team to make decisions based on basketball? :biggrin:


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

HAAK72 said:


> Again, you clearly do not understand...


Understand that you hate Zach? Ya, we all got that.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> You are looking at Steve Francis far too much, are you well aware of what else you acquired in that package? If you are, then you already know that you acquired 6'11 Channing Fyre, this would only be his 3rd year in the league, and he has a nice soft shooting touch, and maybe he can play a bit of the 3. In other words, he's the perfect compliment to Greg Oden. Shooters, baby, shooters, that's what it's all about.



Yes, Frye is 6'11" and can shoot a bit. He also has the focus, intensity, and all around drive we have come to value in Darius Miles. :whatever:


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Everyone should really wait until all of this trade is 100% completed before bashing Pritchard. You should also look at the big picture a bit more. Portland will be in a very good possition to go deep in the playoffs in 2-3 years with the talent they have. The moves they are making create a ton of cap space around that time to sign a player that should be that final piece.


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## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> Everyone should really wait until all of this trade is 100% completed before bashing Pritchard. You should also look at the big picture a bit more. Portland will be in a very good possition to go deep in the playoffs in 2-3 years with the talent they have. The moves they are making create a ton of cap space around that time to sign a player that should be that final piece.


maybe we'd have an easier time if a certain someone dropped a hint about a trade he told us would be happening soon (and hopefully still is?)

;__;


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

Sorry, but after the draft we are officially after "soon."


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

dont forget the rumor that miles for malik rose is part of this deal, which later turns into marion.


so MM what were the big deal you heard about you can say it now come on tell us!


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## AZblazersfan (May 24, 2006)

> Yes, Frye is 6'11" and can shoot a bit. He also has the focus, intensity, and all around drive we have come to value in Darius Miles.


Why all the negativity with Channing? I know last year was a step backwards for him, but he had a very strong rookie campaign, especially considering the messed up situation in NY. He improved drastically in his 4 years at AZ from a weak mid level prospect, to a lottery pick. I would think the focus, intensity, and all around drive are things he would have to possess. I'm not a huge fan of the trade (as it stands now) either, but lets not bash the guys coming in, unless his name is Steve Francis.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Yeah I don't like how we swapped Zach and how he carried us to the playoffs over and over for Steve who never has...Ohhh wait neither player has carried a team to the playoffs. Neither player has much help ion that regard. 

In 8 Years Francis has had three 21+ ppg seasons. His career marks of 18.4ppg, 5.6rpg and 6.1apg are sure trash no doubt. Especailly compared to Zach and his 16ppg, 7rpg and 1.4 apg. And on top of that Francis averages more blocks per game than Zach.

BTW does anyone want to explain this "Franchise Killer" reputation? I never heard that one. I know he refused to go to Vancouver when he was drafted, but after that.....


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

AZblazersfan said:


> Why all the negativity with Channing? I know last year was a step backwards for him, but he had a very strong rookie campaign, especially considering the messed up situation in NY. He improved drastically in his 4 years at AZ from a weak mid level prospect, to a lottery pick. I would think the focus, intensity, and all around drive are things he would have to possess. I'm not a huge fan of the trade (as it stands now) either, but lets not bash the guys coming in, unless his name is Steve Francis.


All the negativity about Channing has to do with people upset about trading Zach, and has little to do with Channing at all.


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## moldorf (Jun 29, 2007)

teams don't trade players....they trade player's contracts. I know that seems like distinction without a difference but it it not.

Some people who judge this trade harshly are inflating zach's value and deflating Frye's value. I think Frye will be a lot better player for portland then people think.

And after some here overvalue zach, they ignore what impact the particulars of his contract have on his relative trade value. Zach was simply not as an appealing "talent" to the rest of the league as some here believe, and his contract devalued him as an asset even more.

Francis is a shell of the player he used to be and he comes with as much "baggage" as zach. However, his contract is very attractive relative to zach's, made moreso by the previously negotiated buyout clause, and even more then that in portland's case, because it expires on the same date as does the lafrentz contract.

Furthermore, reports are that phoenix insisted that the 2 trades they made with portland be conjoined, so in reality those trades are part of the NY trade because of the trade exception.

practically it was zach,f.jones, dickau, the 53rd pick and 3 million

for frye, j.jones, fernandez, NY's 2008 2nd round, ...
AND the francis contract which will save the franchise over 35 million dollars relative to zach's. And, it puts portland in position to be a major player in the 2009 FA market. It's also importabt to keep in mind that cap space gives a lot of leverage in trading as well as in pursueing FA's.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

AZblazersfan said:


> Why all the negativity with Channing? I know last year was a step backwards for him, but he had a very strong rookie campaign, especially considering the messed up situation in NY. He improved drastically in his 4 years at AZ from a weak mid level prospect, to a lottery pick. I would think the focus, intensity, and all around drive are things he would have to possess. I'm not a huge fan of the trade (as it stands now) either, but lets not bash the guys coming in, unless his name is Steve Francis.


IIRC, when Frye was at 'Zona, no one questioed his talent, but there were serious questions about his mental make-up. That is why most "experts" considered him a reach at #8.

Young, rebuilding teams always go thru rough stretches. I understand that Frye's situation in NY was less than ideal.....but if he couldn't handle adversity there, I have to wonder how he will deal with it here.


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## moldorf (Jun 29, 2007)

Oldmangrouch said:


> IIRC, when Frye was at 'Zona, no one questioed his talent, but there were serious questions about his mental make-up. That is why most "experts" considered him a reach at #8.
> 
> Young, rebuilding teams always go thru rough stretches. I understand that Frye's situation in NY was less than ideal.....but if he couldn't handle adversity there, I have to wonder how he will deal with it here.



Jermaine O'Neal couldn't handle the "adversity" of Mike Dunleavy so portland traded him....how'd that work out?


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Schilly said:


> All the negativity about Channing has to do with people upset about trading Zach, and has little to do with Channing at all.


Horse pucky.

Some of us have stated very clearly why we question Frye's value. You can't just look at his 2 NBA seasons in a vacum.....you have to look at the concerns raised about him in college. When you factor that into the equation, you can see why some of us suspect his rookie year was the fluke, and his second season was a reflection of the "real" Channing Frye.

You may disagree, but we are NOT just pulling this out of thin air.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Horse pucky.
> 
> Some of us have stated very clearly why we question Frye's value. You can't just look at his 2 NBA seasons in a vacum.....you have to look at the concerns raised about him in college. When you factor that into the equation, you can see why some of us suspect his rookie year was the fluke, and his second season was a reflection of the "real" Channing Frye.
> 
> You may disagree, but we are NOT just pulling this out of thin air.


Some is...Some isn't there are rational and irrational posters alike. The fact is he was brought in to be a reserve and he's perfectly suited for such a role.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

moldorf said:


> Jermaine O'Neal couldn't handle the "adversity" of Mike Dunleavy so portland traded him....how'd that work out?



What adversity? Being stuck behind Wallace and Grant - both of whom *at the time* were better players than Jermaine? 

The only "adversity" I am aware of, is that Dunleavy wanted Jermaine to play center, and he wanted to play PF.


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## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

toutlaw25 said:


> KP has done some great things to transform the Blazers over the past year, but the trade for Zach was ridiculous. Not only did we get hosed, but he brought in another guy with character issues. He has not stated that he would buy out Francis, which completely undermines the direction the team was headed. If we keep Francis on this team and even give him a chance to play, I'll never look at KP the same again. Although Zach was an idiot off the court, at least he was productive while he was on the court. The same can't be said for Stevie.


p-p-p-premature analysis!!!!!!!!


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## toutlaw25 (Aug 7, 2005)

LameR said:


> Congrats on 49 posts. Use the search button, or actually read some of the threads that this has been duplicated in again and again.


What's the search button? I've read plenty of the threads already and regardless of my post count, I've been on this board long before I registered. The point is regardless of the trade outcome, I don't care who we get because if KP is planning on keeping Francis all of his "culture talk" is BS. If Francis never steps foot on the Rose Garden floor, I have nothing else to complain about. It doesn't matter if his salary comes off the books two years earlier than Zach's, he is worthless to this team from a basketball talent perspective.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

it's a long summer mayne...

like others are saying, wait it out. i'm giving KP the benefit of the doubt for now.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

This thread is :lol:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Schilly said:


> All the negativity about Channing has to do with people upset about trading Zach, and has little to do with Channing at all.


That's not true. I was arguing about what a softy he was even during his rookie season. The dude is a jump shooter with a poor motor. It was no surprise that he wasn't able to maintain his rookie year production, and I would be shocked if he's ever a starting-level player in the NBA.

Ed O.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

toutlaw25 said:


> What's the search button? I've read plenty of the threads already and regardless of my post count, I've been on this board long before I registered. The point is regardless of the trade outcome, I don't care who we get because if KP is planning on keeping Francis all of his "culture talk" is BS. If Francis never steps foot on the Rose Garden floor, I have nothing else to complain about. It doesn't matter if his salary comes off the books two years earlier than Zach's, he is worthless to this team from a basketball talent perspective.


I for one thought you've made some pretty reasonable posts. You said *IF* KP doesn't buyout Francis, then you think the trade is BS, then half the board jumps on you for supposedly being presumptuous. Hello people, do you know what the word "if" means? Some people can't handle a lack of positive unanimity I guess, so they are going to imagine reasons why someone with even a reasonable not-positive opinion is somehow not reasonable.


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## lyleb123 (Feb 12, 2007)

It's the culture thing: KP's culture, if your a player; what's that mean?.Steve Blake was told he was going to be a long term franchise player: he bought a house here. He really enjoyed playing against us.What's the culture?


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