# If the Bulls want to win the title, they must make an impact trade.



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Derrick Rose is not playing like an all-star.
Noah has been horrible for the majority of the season.
Butler is having a fine year but hes cooling off a bit as the season continues forward. 
As good as Gasol has been, hes such a liability on defense. 
Hinrich is horrible
Dunleavy is injured and the bench is full of at times useless players.
Mirotic is barely used, Snell is horrible and McDermott is non existent. 

This team has struggled with consistency all season long and has struggled both defensively and offensively on any given night. If the Bulls want to win the title this year, they need to make a trade for either a defensive minded and athletic big or a scoring 2 guard who can come off the bench.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Maybe a trade helps, but there are deeper issues with this team right now that no realistic trade is going to solve. I am 100% convinced this team's problems are not with the roster. Look at how we always get up for the top tier teams and often win them, and then look at the putrid teams we are losing to or nearly losing to. I can't be convinced that losing to a starting Lakers team of Wayne Ellington, Jordan Clarkson, Ryan Kelly, Jordan Hill, and Robert Sacre is due to the Bulls not having enough talent or the right pieces. There are mental problems with this team.

I'm not gonna pretend like I know the solution, but the one thing I don't think will fix things overnight is trading for a minor upgrade at our backup wing position. Does that make Rose stop going 1 for 7 on three pointers or turning the ball over 11 times? Before anything else happens our starting 5 needs to play a lot better (getting Dunleavy back in there can only help matters).

Thibodeau is right about 1 thing, their fix must come from within. They are capable, we've seen it before. Just no effort or pride coming from this team right now.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

It's just a cold streak. There's plenty of time to figure it out between now and the playoffs.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

No, it's more than just a cold streak. Sure you can question their effort vs crap teams, but they are also just flat out getting outplayed by good teams like Atlanta, Washington and Cleveland. Teams that are going to comment contend for the EC title. 

I just can't envision a team that relies on kirk hinrich and playing Tony Snell big minutes, is going to be a serious contender. The bulls have soo much dead weight on that bench that the bulls can't survive a long term injury at certain positions. 

They need help, the need rest and they need to make an impact trade. Say whatever you want about Cleveland's trade for Mozgov and Smith, but they have gone 9-4 since the trade on a current 9 have win streak and have played better.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> No, it's more than just a cold streak. Sure you can question their effort vs crap teams, but they are also just flat out getting outplayed by good teams like Atlanta, Washington and Cleveland. Teams that are going to comment contend for the EC title.
> 
> I just can't envision a team that relies on kirk hinrich and playing Tony Snell big minutes, is going to be a serious contender. The bulls have soo much dead weight on that bench that the bulls can't survive a long term injury at certain positions.
> 
> They need help, the need rest and they need to make an impact trade. Say whatever you want about Cleveland's trade for Mozgov and Smith, but they have gone 9-4 since the trade on a current 9 have win streak and have played better.


Who do you trade to get more talent though? To me the answer is easily Mirotic since it takes from easily your deepest position although I'm sure many don't like that answer. 

Plus I will admit it's sounding like there's more behind this Thibs and management rift than I originally thought.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Who do you trade to get more talent though? To me the answer is easily Mirotic since it takes from easily your deepest position although I'm sure many don't like that answer.
> 
> Plus I will admit it's sounding like there's more behind this Thibs and management rift than I originally thought.


Unless its for a legit Star, the Bulls aren't trading Mirotic. 

I think the Bulls will have to get creative and offer draft picks and some sort of cap relief for a team to be interested. Maybe even give up on Doug McDermot who is just flat out a non existent player on this team.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Unless its for a legit Star, the Bulls aren't trading Mirotic.
> 
> I think the Bulls will have to get creative and offer draft picks and some sort of cap relief for a team to be interested. Maybe even give up on Doug McDermot who is just flat out a non existent player on this team.


It seems odd to me to give up on McDermot so quick but say you'd only trade Mirotic for a star. He basically plays a poor mans Ryan Anderson type game and doesn't help the team defensively from what I've seen. 
I admittedly don't watch nearly as many Bulls games as you do though.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

R-Star said:


> It seems odd to me to give up on McDermot so quick but say you'd only trade Mirotic for a star. He basically plays a poor mans Ryan Anderson type game and doesn't help the team defensively from what I've seen.
> I admittedly don't watch nearly as many Bulls games as you do though.


I'm just stating what I think GarPax would do. I think there is a real sense of "This has to be our year" with the front office. If things don't go the well during the playoffs, you will most likely see Thibs gone. While I can assure you that GarPax want's Doug and Mirotic to succeed, if the right trade comes along you have to do it.

Its unacceptable that Mirotic and McDermot are basically useless. If the Bulls don't want to make a trade, these guys need to become impact players. Kirk Hinrich is giving you ZERO. Teams that win titles don't rely on players who give you ZERO.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Well in terms of Hinrich/Snell playing minutes....the Dunleavy injury has really hurt us. It sounds silly b/c it's not like Dunleavy is a star or anything, but he is a solid role player who while a bit slow of foot, knows defensive fundamentals/positioning, does a great job making the right plays in the offense, and can consistently knock down the 3-pt shot. He is really the perfect role player to have next to our 3 main scorers of Rose, Butler, Gasol. He's been injured for over a month now and I don't think it's coincidence we've fallen off the cliff a bit since then. His 30 minutes per game are being filled almost entirely by Hinrich & Snell. Personally I think Snell is doing a better job than Hinrich at filling the role, but there is reason Dunleavy has the starting SF job, because he is a solid role player who does his job well. 

And as far as Hinrich playing 25-30 min/game...that decision is on Thibs. Granted I do think Hinrich catches too much criticism, but I agree he is playing too much. It's not like Dunleavy and Hinrich play the same position. And why not more E'Twaun Moore, who has been a pretty decent fill-in, better than Hinrich alot of the time IMO. 

I am not opposed to a trade, but I really don't think it should be a big-time "shake up the roster" type of trade. Rose, Butler, Gasol, Noah, Gibson, Mirotic, Dunleavy, Brooks, McDermott are off limits. Snell, Hinrich, Moore, Nazr, Bairstow, and draft picks are the ones I would move. Just make a minor fire sale trade for a veteran energy guy (defensive wing) who can be had for peanuts. Energy is really what this team needs so it can't hurt matters.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I poked around briefly for backup wing energy guys who might be had for cheap. One of the best ones I could find is Alonzo Gee. He pretty much fits the mold and would be worth a try. Veteran, energy guy/great athlete, plays defense, stuck on a bad team (Denver) not playing a ton, and only $1 million salary this year so easy to make it work under the cap. 

Anyone know if or how much Denver values him? Any chance we could do Snell + 2nd rounder or something like that? I think Denver only gave up a 2nd round plus garbage filler contracts to get him.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

yodurk said:


> I poked around briefly for backup wing energy guys who might be had for cheap. One of the best ones I could find is Alonzo Gee. He pretty much fits the mold and would be worth a try. Veteran, energy guy/great athlete, plays defense, stuck on a bad team (Denver) not playing a ton, and only $1 million salary this year so easy to make it work under the cap.
> 
> Anyone know if or how much Denver values him? Any chance we could do Snell + 2nd rounder or something like that? I think Denver only gave up a 2nd round plus garbage filler contracts to get him.


I think the Bulls should look to trade for a decent defensive SF to plug into the starting lineup if Dunleavy is going to be out much longer.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

This team is playing nowhere near it's potential, but the chances are they're going to have homecourt in the first round of the playoffs at the least. It would obviously benefit them to move up in the standings. You don't want to finish 4th or 5th in the East because that looks like it's going to be the only competitive first round series.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I really think the time to make a trade is now. You can't afford for this team to continue to get further in the dumps and risk a toxic situation that losing can cause. Its time to get rid of dead weight like Hinrich, Snell and Mohammed, and hope that Minnesota is willing to take some cap flexibility and ship us Kevin Martin.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

They need to add an outside shooter nd they'll be fine. Noah will get his game right before playoff time but they just aren't a threat to stretch the floor and that hurts both Butler and Rose's games. Hinrich and Snell are just an absolute waste of minutes.

How much longer is Dunleavy out? He really is a key piece for this team as weird as it sounds.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Marcus13 said:


> They need to add an outside shooter nd they'll be fine. Noah will get his game right before playoff time but they just aren't a threat to stretch the floor and that hurts both Butler and Rose's games. Hinrich and Snell are just an absolute waste of minutes.
> 
> How much longer is Dunleavy out? He really is a key piece for this team as weird as it sounds.


They need more than just Dunleavy. I said it before and I'll say it again, If the Bulls continue to rely on Kirk Hinrich in meaningful games, the Bulls will not win a title. Heck, they won't even come close.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> They need more than just Dunleavy. I said it before and I'll say it again, If the Bulls continue to rely on Kirk Hinrich in meaningful games, the Bulls will not win a title. Heck, they won't even come close.


I agree - I meant a shooter IN ADDITION to Dunleavy. Dunleavy and said shooter could step in and take a majority of the minutes from Snell and Hinrich.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> I really think the time to make a trade is now. You can't afford for this team to continue to get further in the dumps and risk a toxic situation that losing can cause. Its time to get rid of dead weight like Hinrich, Snell and Mohammed, and hope that Minnesota is willing to take some cap flexibility and ship us Kevin Martin.


What do you think of my Snell + 2nd rounder for Alonzo Gee trade? I like Gee for what he is, and not sure why Denver would feel very compelled to keep him given where they're at and how little they gave up to get Gee in the first place.

I am coming around to the idea of a trade, BTW.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> They need more than just Dunleavy. I said it before and I'll say it again, If the Bulls continue to rely on Kirk Hinrich in meaningful games, the Bulls will not win a title. Heck, they won't even come close.


I am OK with Hinrich being on the team, just not for 25-30 minutes per game. He should be playing 10-15 minutes these days. I still like him in that capacity as he supplements what Rose & Brooks bring to the table. 

If we flip Snell + draft pick for a serviceable vet wing like my Gee proposal, I still think we have enough talent to win the East. But there is obviously more wrong with this team than just talent right now; some serious mental problems for sure. Also I would love if Thibs had the guts to bring Noah off the bench, but I don't think he ever would. This is what I'd love to see basically (minutes in parentheses).

PG -- Rose (32), Brooks (20)
SG -- Butler (34), Hinrich (10)
SF -- Dunleavy (28), Gee (20)
PF -- Gibson (26), Mirotic (16)
C -- Gasol (28), Noah (26)

Lastly, with Dunleavy still injured I just see no excuse for why McDermott isn't seeing the floor. The kid is medically cleared to play. He should play. Maybe he will suck like earlier in the year but at least give him a shot. Can't possibly make us any worse.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> What do you think of my Snell + 2nd rounder for Alonzo Gee trade? I like Gee for what he is, and not sure why Denver would feel very compelled to keep him given where they're at and how little they gave up to get Gee in the first place.
> 
> I am coming around to the idea of a trade, BTW.


The Cavs got JR Smith, Timofey Mozgov and Shumpert all contributing.
The Grizz were able to get Jeff Green for peanuts.
Thunder got Waiters.

Alonzo Gee is not the answer.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> The Cavs got JR Smith, Timofey Mozgov and Shumpert all contributing.
> The Grizz were able to get Jeff Green for peanuts.
> Thunder got Waiters.
> 
> Alonzo Gee is not the answer.


Well who is "the answer" then? I find it hard to believe any trade we make is going to solve the fundamental issues with this team. If you are thinking a bigger blockbuster trade, I will have a harder time getting behind that b/c of what we'd have to give up, like McDermott or Mirotic. I am not in the camp that thinks the Bulls are some majorly flawed roster of players. They have a ton of talent, they started 25-10, and they have won games against nearly all the best teams in the league this season. Their problems are 90% mental. 

I'm looking for a trade that improves the mentality of the team, and I think we need a wing who will will help set a better tone on the court with energy/athleticism. Gee is a guy who has started and come off the bench, clearly an upgrade from Snell (and Hinrich too for that matter) and gives us an athlete and wing defender who can actually contribute. Snell + 2nd rounder is basically peanuts too. Remember what James Johnson did for the Grizzlies when they got him? Major impact for a guy who really isn't starter material. I see Gee in much the same light.

The most elaborate trade I could get behind would involve Taj Gibson for a really good wing, and even then we'd need to expand the trade to ensure we have a sufficient backup big man to replace Taj. I might also consider McDermott if we're getting a "sure thing" back like the Tobias Harris rumor. That is where I draw the line at the moment. 

EDIT: Here is one trade I cooked up in the ESPN trade machine based on the Tobias Harris rumor (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lxaxq8l). Assuming we give up Taj & a young asset like McDermott, I would demand we get Dedmon back who is a much less valuable player but at least brings the skill set we need and can plug into the rotation. If I'm Orlando I'd be all over this trade...McDermott is a perfect long-term fit to play with Payton & Oladipo, and Gibson is a vet presence they need who is a perfect fit with Vucevic. Taj also gets to finally be a starter.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Well who is "the answer" then? I find it hard to believe any trade we make is going to solve the fundamental issues with this team. If you are thinking a bigger blockbuster trade, I will have a harder time getting behind that b/c of what we'd have to give up, like McDermott or Mirotic. I am not in the camp that thinks the Bulls are some majorly flawed roster of players. They have a ton of talent, they started 25-10, and they have won games against nearly all the best teams in the league this season. Their problems are 90% mental.
> 
> I'm looking for a trade that improves the mentality of the team, and I think we need a wing who will will help set a better tone on the court with energy/athleticism. Gee is a guy who has started and come off the bench, clearly an upgrade from Snell (and Hinrich too for that matter) and gives us an athlete and wing defender who can actually contribute. Snell + 2nd rounder is basically peanuts too. Remember what James Johnson did for the Grizzlies when they got him? Major impact for a guy who really isn't starter material. I see Gee in much the same light.
> 
> ...


I'm not looking for a trade that brings back a legit star, instead I'm looking for a trade that most major teams make, and thats pillaging smaller markets in a fire sale. I really think Denver is on the verge of blowing it up. I would trade away protected draft picks Taj, Hinrich, Snell and Mohammed for Wilson Chandler and Arron Afflalo. 

I think this trade puts the Bulls in a much better spot of competing for a title and it allows some forced playing time for Mirotic to develop. Afflalo is instantly better than Hinrich and would add some much needed scoring/spacing depth. Chandler off the bench gives the Bulls a shot in the arm for some bench scoring and some interesting lineups.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> I'm not looking for a trade that brings back a legit star, instead I'm looking for a trade that most major teams make, and thats pillaging smaller markets in a fire sale. I really think Denver is on the verge of blowing it up. I would trade away protected draft picks Taj, Hinrich, Snell and Mohammed for Wilson Chandler and Arron Afflalo.
> 
> I think this trade puts the Bulls in a much better spot of competing for a title and it allows some forced playing time for Mirotic to develop. Afflalo is instantly better than Hinrich and would add some much needed scoring/spacing depth. Chandler off the bench gives the Bulls a shot in the arm for some bench scoring and some interesting lineups.


In theory I'm all over Wilson Chandler, and to a slightly lesser extent Arron Afflalo. A not so subtle problem though is matching salaries for these guys is going to be tough without having to give up one of our core players. Taj Gibson should work, but then what's the sell for Denver to get Gibson who is just as old as Chandler & Afflalo, not to mention plays the same position as one of their best players, plus we'd need to find a defensive big man off the bench to fill Taj's shoes (which is essential given how bad our D has been already). So in other words I really don't see why Denver would want to deal with us unless we get a 3rd team involved, and that can be a tall order. Personally I find Orlando to be more likely as a trade partner since they could really use a guy like Taj Gibson, and have a few players we would find appealing. Or maybe a three-way trade between Orlando, Denver, and the Bulls.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Depends on how many draft picks you give up. Taj, kirk, Snell and Mohamed work cap wise. It gives the Nuggets some cap flexibility a year earlier and frankly, the only offers they will get will be from contending teams. So no rebuilding team is going to give up young players or high draft picks for chandler or afflalo.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Another trade deadline passes and the bulls do what they do best at the deadline.... nothing.

Afflalo to Portland.
Dragic to Miami.
Kanter to OKC.
MCW and Plumlee to Milwaukee.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I was fine standing pat b/c as I said above, this team's problems are mental, not talent. That being said, there is a deep pool of buyout candidates this year. The Bulls really need to capitalize on one of them, this is literally getting something for nothing. 

Dragic & Kanter got moved b/c they were disgruntled and will be free agents, that wouldn't have improved here. Unless we did Rose for Dragic which I wouldn't mind at this point, Rose is just embarrassing half the time out there lately.

Milwaukee gave up their best player to get MCW and Plumlee, that was a high price to pay. 

Portland gave up multiple 1st rounders to get Afflalo, who also is a free agent. Bulls made it clear (reportedly) they thought that was too steep for a guy who isn't having a good season, is past 30 yrs old, and will be unrestricted free agent.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Like it or not, the Bulls chances this season primarily depend on Rose's return to, if not greatness, then at least "very-goodness." They also depend on dominant big man play.

Last night against the Pistons, the Bulls had neither and it was a decidedly bad look. Still, it's the only place the 2014-15 Bulls can hang their hat.

I'm glad the Bulls still have Noah, Gasol, Gibson and Mirotic on the roster.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> I was fine standing pat b/c as I said above, this team's problems are mental, not talent. That being said, there is a deep pool of buyout candidates this year. The Bulls really need to capitalize on one of them, this is literally getting something for nothing.
> 
> Dragic & Kanter got moved b/c they were disgruntled and will be free agents, that wouldn't have improved here. Unless we did Rose for Dragic which I wouldn't mind at this point, Rose is just embarrassing half the time out there lately.
> 
> ...


The excuses are the same every year and the results are the same every year. The Bulls haven't come close to making the finals in how long? Yet the fan base continues to pat the bulls on the back for staying pat yet again at the trade deadline. 

Portland giving up meaningless late round picks for a legit 6th man is a bad thing? Especially considering that the Trailblazers are all in for a title run. 

Look at Cleveland, they made a big trade and then picked up another big in Perkins just to gear up for the Bulls and Wizards in the playoffs. I hate to say this but the Bulls aren't a championship caliber team, not even close. 

Last night was just another example in which the Bulls just don't have the drive nor the same impact players they had several years ago. I say that because Rose and Noah are shells of their former selves.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> The excuses are the same every year and the results are the same every year. The Bulls haven't come close to making the finals in how long? Yet the fan base continues to pat the bulls on the back for staying pat yet again at the trade deadline.


I beg to differ, the past few years we had the blue-collar mindset but it has been a lack of refined talent, or at least healthy talent. This year we have the refined talent and the health, but not the mindset. 

I'm sorry, Arron friggin Afflalo isn't going to save this team. He is a decent player but a far cry from a savior. The only thing that will get this Bulls team to the finals is if our leaders -- Rose, Butler, Gasol, Noah -- play like they are capable.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

yodurk said:


> I beg to differ, the past few years we had the blue-collar mindset but it has been a lack of refined talent, or at least healthy talent. This year we have the refined talent and the health, but not the mindset.
> 
> I'm sorry, Arron friggin Afflalo isn't going to save this team. He is a decent player but a far cry from a savior. The only thing that will get this Bulls team to the finals is if our leaders -- Rose, Butler, Gasol, Noah -- play like they are capable.


Well said.

As I see it, it's really all about Rose and Noah. 

For Noah, it's about his knees. Will they allow him to be and offensive rebounding machine and the kind of defensive freak that completely f's up NBA offenses?

For Rose it's something beyond the purely physical. At least for me (an old longtime Bulls fan), Rose is a very tough read. I've thought he was all the way back several times this season only to see him almost instantly revert to a below average NBA PG.

Having watched the Bulls over the past 3 1/2 months, it's easy to see then go deep in the playoffs or be a first-round out.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Forget about Title. No excuse please.

Bulls have no shot to defeat Cavs with Perkins.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

Perkins will likely have a very limited impact with the Cavs. Over 50+ games with the Thunder, Perkins averaged a meager 4 pts per game and less than rebounds. At best he is good for some interior defense. I think Mozgov is a bigger threat to the Bulls than Perkins. However, in the end any hope of beating the Cavs will come down to how effectively the Bulls can defend Lebron.

The Bulls have every chance to beat the Cavs or any other team. The have a great coach and a talented team.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> I beg to differ, the past few years we had the blue-collar mindset but it has been a lack of refined talent, or at least healthy talent. This year we have the refined talent and the health, but not the mindset.


There is a difference between lacking talent and lacking that extra something that pushes teams to the next level. The Bulls haven't even attempted to find this in several trade deadlines. The Bulls have talent, probably on paper the most talented team in a long time. YET, that very same talent is just a bunch of the same guys we have always had, finally being healthy enough to play a full season together. 

Derrick Rose is a shell of his former self. 
Noah is no where NEAR the player he was last season.
Pau Gasol has been an upgrade over Boozer but is he enough to get us past our 2 biggest opponents in the playoffs?

Gasol vs Cleveland (3 Games) 14.7 ppg on 33% shooting.
Gasol vs Washington (3 Games) 14.3 ppg on 45% shooting. 

Also, don't be so sure about the overall health of this team going forward. Noah still is suffering from foot and knee issues, Butler is starting to have shoulder issues, Taj is playing with torn ligament in his had and Dunleavy isn't near 100% yet. 

Refined the talent but not the mindset?? Ugh.... A refined mindset isn't going to get you through Lebron or those 2 big bastards in Washington. 



> I'm sorry, Arron friggin Afflalo isn't going to save this team. He is a decent player but a far cry from a savior. The only thing that will get this Bulls team to the finals is if our leaders -- Rose, Butler, Gasol, Noah -- play like they are capable.


No one is saying that Afflalo is the savior, heck nobody thinks that JR Smith, Perkins, Shumpert and Mozgov are saviors, but they are pieces to add to Clevelands core of leaders. And they are better for it. 

6 years the Bulls core has played hard and well during the playoffs and its not been enough. What is going to be done different this year with 2 declining stars?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> The excuses are the same every year and the results are the same every year. The Bulls haven't come close to making the finals in how long? Yet the fan base continues to pat the bulls on the back for staying pat yet again at the trade deadline.
> 
> Portland giving up meaningless late round picks for a legit 6th man is a bad thing? Especially considering that the Trailblazers are all in for a title run.
> 
> ...




Every year, the reactionary elements of the fanbase go bananas about the trade deadline, and in most years, the things they want would actively make the team worse.

Re: Perkins, he is irrelevant to your argument, as (1) that was not a trade, and (2) the Bulls actively attempted to sign him. It's no surprise he wouldn't sign somewhere he couldn't get minutes, and also, you seem to miss the essential point that HE IS TERRIBLE AT BASKETBALL. So there's that.

And Portland did not give up "meaningless late round picks." They gave up a first rounder. Even if those picks are late-ish in the first round, they are still potentially important. Would you rather have half a season of Afflalo or Jimmy Butler or Nikola Mirotic or Taj Gibson? The Bulls have a pretty great history of finding good NBA players in the late first round, and it would be foolish to view those picks as disposable.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> Forget about Title. No excuse please.
> 
> Bulls have no shot to defeat Cavs with Perkins.



This post is amazing.

Kendrick Perkins.

Awesome.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> 6 years the Bulls core has played hard and well during the playoffs and its not been enough. What is going to be done different this year with 2 declining stars?



Umm, no. The past three seasons, the Bulls _core_ has not played in the playoffs at all.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Every year, the reactionary elements of the fanbase go bananas about the trade deadline, and in most years, the things they want would actively make the team worse.


So you would prefer stagnation over risk taking?




> And Portland did not give up "meaningless late round picks." They gave up a first rounder.
> 
> Even if those picks are late-ish in the first round, they are still potentially important. Would you rather have half a season of Afflalo or Jimmy Butler or Nikola Mirotic or Taj Gibson? The Bulls have a pretty great history of finding good NBA players in the late first round, and it would be foolish to view those picks as disposable.


If half a season of Afflalo gets us close to a title, HELL YEAH I would rather have that. You are assuming that we would be trading away current versions of Butler, Taj and Mirotic. You are forgetting that its taken Jimmy, Taj and Mirotic 3+ years to become important players on this team, and I don't even know how important Mirotic is to Thibs at the moment. 

Considering the Bulls current title window, I sure as hell would give up on potential talent right now. What good is Doug McDermott doing on this team right now? Nothing. 

The point being, the Bulls don't have 3+ years to win a title. The title window is damn near close to being shut. This is the year we have to win, and I just don't think they have enough to beat Lebron or the Wizards.

Gasol is 34 years old.
Noah is 30 and declining.
Taj is going to be 30.
Rose is half the player he used to be and is only going to be a bigger salary cap albatross in the next couple of years. 
Jimmy is a fine player but not superstar material and is going to look to get a big time salary raise. 

The future of Thibs is up in the air.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> So you would prefer stagnation over risk taking?


Well, that's a false choice. The Bulls are within striking distance of the 2 seed at this point and are contenders for a title as presently constituted. I would not make trades for the sake of making trades, which is what the vitriol every year post-deadline seems to suggest they do.




> If half a season of Afflalo gets us close to a title, HELL YEAH I would rather have that. You are assuming that we would be trading away current versions of Butler, Taj and Mirotic. You are forgetting that its taken Jimmy, Taj and Mirotic 3+ years to become important players on this team, and I don't even know how important Mirotic is to Thibs at the moment.


Based on last night, Mirotic is looking pretty damned important.

Also, it can't have taken Mirotic "3+ years" to become important, as he's a rookie, unless you're simply referring to the fact he was stashed in Europe.

I do agree that these late first-round gems do require some development time. However, failing to have the patience to allow those players to develop is how you end up being the Knicks. Trading away all your young assets in a hope for a very marginal short-term improvement is NBA suicide, more often than not. I do agree the title window with the present group is only 1-3 years, and so now is a better time to take a risk than others would be, but that still does not mean that _any_ offer for an Afflalo-type player is a smart one.

AA is a nice player. I do not know that acquiring him (depending on what is given up) makes the Bulls closer to winning an NBA title, if Tony Snell can keep performing at this level (a rather open question, to be sure).


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Well what's the point now.... Derrick is injured again. This team will most likely get blown up.

They should have made a move.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Well what's the point now.... Derrick is injured again. This team will most likely get blown up.
> 
> They should have made a move.


I don't understand...

With Rose hurt again, why would you want a move. The move they would've made before the trade deadline is a "win now" move. The last thing I want this team doing without Rose is win-now moves. With Rose out I'd rather make moves for the future.

The reality is we are screwed without Rose playing like an all-star and having his $20M+ weighing down our salary cap. I am glad we didn't make a move now, b/c at least we can make a better informed decision now with the future in mind.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

yodurk said:


> I don't understand...
> 
> With Rose hurt again, why would you want a move. The move they would've made before the trade deadline is a "win now" move. The last thing I want this team doing without Rose is win-now moves. With Rose out I'd rather make moves for the future.
> 
> The reality is we are screwed without Rose playing like an all-star and having his $20M+ weighing down our salary cap. I am glad we didn't make a move now, b/c at least we can make a better informed decision now with the future in mind.



Yeah, exactly. Derrick going down makes a trade a worse idea.


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