# Butler or Hughes



## het now (Jul 18, 2005)

Who would/will be a better contributer for the Wiz. Larry or Caron


----------



## het now (Jul 18, 2005)

From watching these two I will cast my vote for Larry just becaue he is a good scorer


----------



## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Larry is better right now. But you have to reask this next year when we learn what Caron is getting paid on his next contract.

In the long run, I think Caron is the better answer, as I can see him developing into a role better suited for long term success than Larry could. I always felt that Larry thought he was better than he really was, and that he didn't do much to help the "team" win. He certainly did a lot to help his stats, but I contribute the winning to Arenas mostly and then Jamison. Hughes had numeroud chances when Arenas was hurt, and before Antawn to make things happen, even with Jordan, and he never did. He did not just happen overnight, and I think playing with Arenas and playing for EJ in the system he did, gave him the freedom to put up the numbers he did. Larry's refusal to pass on the break or in the post are two good examples.

Caron his first couple years was a lot like Larry, but I think last year in LA, he started to show more of an ability to blend in, rather than seem apart from the team.


----------



## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

BCH said:


> Larry is better right now. But you have to reask this next year when we learn what Caron is getting paid on his next contract.
> 
> In the long run, I think Caron is the better answer, as I can see him developing into a role better suited for long term success than Larry could. I always felt that Larry thought he was better than he really was, and that he didn't do much to help the "team" win. He certainly did a lot to help his stats, but I contribute the winning to Arenas mostly and then Jamison. Hughes had numeroud chances when Arenas was hurt, and before Antawn to make things happen, even with Jordan, and he never did. He did not just happen overnight, and I think playing with Arenas and playing for EJ in the system he did, gave him the freedom to put up the numbers he did. Larry's refusal to pass on the break or in the post are two good examples.
> 
> Caron his first couple years was a lot like Larry, but I think last year in LA, he started to show more of an ability to blend in, rather than seem apart from the team.


I agree 100%. With Gilbert Arenas and Antwaan Jamison we have all the star power we need and Larry Hughes was a glorified role player who felt he was the star of the team. Although Larry Hughes is obviously the better player I think Caron Butler is better for the team and he will know and accept his role on the team, something Larry couldn't.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Hughes gives you defense from the 2 guard position, which is suprisingly rare these days from non-superstar players. (Hassel, Hamilton, and?)


----------



## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

Caron is a good defender too, i think the pt that you will benifit is Caron wont ball hog the ball, and Arenas and Jamison will get to take more shots, which is good for you all, and Caron can score too.


----------



## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Dwyane Wade said:


> Caron is a good defender too, i think the pt that you will benifit is Caron wont ball hog the ball, and Arenas and Jamison will get to take more shots, which is good for you all, and Caron can score too.


Agree....Caron has become somewhat overrated in the past weeks but he is a good team player (not that Hughes wasn't). Caron won't demand the ball as D. Wade said...


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Hughes. But Bulter/Daniels are better for the team.


----------



## James_Posey (Jul 31, 2005)

Hughes is better i think


----------



## LightsOutShooter (Jul 12, 2005)

Caron is a better team player, but Hughes is definitely the better all-around player.


----------



## Dodigago (Jan 13, 2005)

Hughes..

but Butler is prolly better for the system since hes more of a slasher and doesnt need the ball in his hands to be affective


----------



## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

I think Butler will fit in nicely with the Wiz. Hughes usually looked to better his stats.


----------



## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

I really like Butler. I was disappointed that Denver passed on him twice for Skita and Nene.

Butler is an offensive talent and I haven't really seen his pro-game too much so I can't comment on his D vs. Hughes. But Larry was a fine player and hopefully Butler will be an upgrade.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Larry Hughes no doubt.


----------



## byrondarnell66 (Jul 18, 2004)

EJ's system allowed Hughes to put up the inflated numbers he did last year giving some people illusions of him being something that he isnt, I like Hughes and he's a good player (boarderline Allstar) but not a great player (a Ray Allen type) and certianly not worth14mil per that Clevelands gonna pay him. Yes he is better than Caron but we still have our best player from last year and that is Arenas, Caron will play well with Arenas and so will Daniels.


----------



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Hughes is a darn decent player, and at this point he should certainly be leading the poll, but the only way he is clearly head and shoulders way way on top is if Caron is worse than advertised. I admit to never exactly being Hughes' biggest fan, but I can't imagine him ever repeating last year again. Hughes is not a 22/6.5/5/3 guy, he is an 18/5/4/2 guy. Hughes is not an all-NBA defensive player, he is just a solid perimeter defender.

I don't think our system necessarily made him a better player, but it made him appear to be a better player to those that couldn't watch him play night-in-night-out (if that makes sense). Assuming we don't change our style much, without a lick of improvement, I could easily see Caron coming in and putting up 18/7/3/2. If he does work hard on him game this summer, he could bump those numbers up even higher.

I wonder what people will think when a few months into the year, Caron is giving us 18/7/3/2 and Hughes is giving Cleveland 18/5/4/2?


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Dodigago said:


> Hughes..
> 
> but Butler is prolly better for the system since hes more of a slasher and doesnt need the ball in his hands to be affective


Butler IMO is a better player but he does need the ball to be affective.


----------



## sagebrush (May 13, 2003)

Hughes is the better player


----------



## WarriorFan64 (Jul 4, 2005)

you guys lost something good like we lost him here in Golden State but you guys will still make the playoffs if everything goes alright. They really have to stay focused now since losing him. Gilbert, and ex Warrior player has to really become a leader now he can do it he's an upcoming star now.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

WTF? Any of you who voted for Caron are just riding on the high of acquiring him and haven't watched him play enough.

Larry Hughes is definitely the better player.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

MJG said:


> I wonder what people will think when a few months into the year, Caron is giving us 18/7/3/2 and Hughes is giving Cleveland 18/5/4/2?


That isn't going to happen...Caron ain't averaging 18ppg on a team with Arenas and Jamison.


----------



## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

Hey it's possible. Who would've thought that Hughes would have the year he had last year?


----------



## wiz kid (Jul 24, 2005)

haven't seen enough of caron, but based on numbers alone, larry has the leg up... there is a hell of a lot more to basketball than putting up numbers, and ive only read good things about caron's unselfishness and team first attitude. This is a good thing...


----------



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> That isn't going to happen...Caron ain't averaging 18ppg on a team with Arenas and Jamison.


I don't see why not. He put up 15.5 last year, where Kobe and Odom only combined to put up some three points less than Arenas and Jamison did. Hughes put up a career high by 3+ points last season, despite our acquisition of Jamison and without Arenas missing a third of the season with injuries (a big reason I originally thought his scoring jumped up to a career high 18ish the season before). There's a big benefit to being a perimeter guy in our system. I'm not necessarily saying he definitely will reach that 18 PPG mark, but I just don't know why he can't.

(Side note: in case it wasn't gotten across, my post was much less talking up Caron, much more talking down Hughes. If Caron comes in as a 15/6 guy, I won't be disappointed. If Hughes goes to Cleveland and is a 22/6/5 guy, I will be surprised)


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

THe funny thing about this thread is all these Wizards fans wouldnt be saying this if he was still here. Lets be relistic here is not an all-star type player but he can kill you on any night. I have seen him many times when the Raptors play them Hughes is the best player on the court. I say he could average around 20 points a game but won't unless LeBron plays point guard.


----------



## 3 Pointer (Jun 9, 2004)

Butler sucks. He misses layups.


----------



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

arcade_rida said:


> THe funny thing about this thread is all these Wizards fans wouldnt be saying this if he was still here.


 I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never much liked Hughes. I found him to be a great role player his first half-season here, and there was about a month long stretch from this year (mid-December until his January injury) where even I was beaming at him. Outside of those short periods though, he aggrivated me a lot more than he impressed me.

This isn't a new development, just coming out now that he's gone from the team. I rolled my eyes at his all-defensive award, noting he only got in because voters noticed he was leading the league in steals and not because he actually was that good a defender. When talking about his potential contract this summer, I put his value in terms of on-court production at no better than about $7.5 million per. I spent the preseason saying how much I hoped he would drop back to be no better than our fourth option, behind Arenas, Jamison, and Kwame.

I'm not saying Hughes was all lemons for me. He did a lot for the team's leap this year, to the point where I would've been annoyed if he had been left off the all-star team (assuming he wasn't injured). The past three seasons were spent being underpaid for his level of production. He hit some game winning shots, made some game winning stops. There were certainly a good many positive moments.

Like I said, I can't speak for other Wizards fans. All I know is that for me personally, I'm not the biggest fan of Hughes, and it's not something new.


----------



## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

Best all-around? Larry Hughes hands down, although I do have concerns that last year might have been a one-time thing.


----------



## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Amazingly, I was a big Hughes supporter until around March this year. I still liked the guy but I slowly began to sour on him. I had no idea he was going to leave, but I got so sick of him not passing it on the fastbreak and showing no trust in his teammates. Their were little signs all year that Arenas/Hughes in the backcourt wasn't going to work in the long run. Hughes was great in December-January, but it literally looked like him and Arenas were competing for shots after Larry came back from injury. Our gunning/gambling ways was predictable by years end and not that much fun to watch. 

Hughes has alot of positives and just as many negatives to his game. That's why I see him as replaceable. Maybe you can't replace his steals but you can definetly bring in higher percentage shooters with higher basketball IQs. Any time you lose a guy with horrible shot selection I think their replaceable. What I noticed is that he was the catalyist of the Wizards streetball style. I think he tries to do too much and thinks he's Kobe or Mcgrady sometimes. It will be interesting to see how he fits with Lebron.

He is better than Butler, but I don't think we need Butler to put up All-Star numbers. He can compliment Arenas/Jamison better just by not trying to replicate what Hughes did. Butler/Daniels/Atkins can all pick up the pieces and give us more than what Hughes did. Most importantly I think our ball movement and b-ball IQ will be much improved.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

adarsh1 said:


> Hey it's possible. Who would've thought that Hughes would have the year he had last year?


 Well, Butler was playing well at the end of the year. Still, the Wizards will lose a lot of chemistry that existed that Arenas and Hughes had. He was one of the guys that the Wizards could go to in crunch time or when the Wizards needed a big shot down the stretch. The chemistry that they lost between Arenas and Hughes was valuable. 

People are bashing Hughes for not stopping Wade but neither can Joe Johnson, Jason Kidd, Tayshaun Prince, and several other good defenders. The thing I like about Hughes is that he is willing to improve his game. He picked up his defense, his shooting percentage, and getting to the basket. He certainly did not make the wisest fast break decisions but he WAS the reason that the Wizards had so many fast breaks. 

This move really only makes sense if they can acquire someone of higher caliber with the money they save. Hughes' salary would still be an asset anyways if the Wizards wanted to do a sign and trade and he is still only 26. 

Even if Butler has a huge year, equal to that of Hughes, will they offer him the money to keep him when he is a free agent? The Wizards need someone to who can play the 4 on defense and let Jamison do his thing on offense; it will be interesting to see if Blatche can develop in a year or two.

Remember, the Wizards could have had Hughes, Butler, Daniels, and Atkins. The question I'm asking is what the Wizards can get in the next couple of years who will be free agents, specifically who can compliment Jamison in the front court.


----------



## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

i see what you are saying. However, I believe in the next offseason, it is in the team's best interest to trade Antawn and get two or more young decent front court players, who can also play defense.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

So couldn't the Wizards have traded Jamison and then kept Hughes? If Jamison stays healthy, then I wouldn't mind keeping him, but his lack of defense and he also probably shouldn't play too many minutes because of his knee tendinitis. I don't think Jamison is worth 2 or 3 young players but hopefully some team will offer it.


----------



## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

no they should have kept jamison because he is still a valuable contributor. I believe after this upcoming season, he will start to decline slowly but steadily


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I think Caron right now is better for this team. He fits well in the Princeton offense because he is a great cutter and can play off the ball. Hughes, Arenas, and Jamison? Too many people need the ball. As Arenas improves and becomes one of the leagues top scorers, he'll need the ball alot, especially as a point guard. Caron will have to get passes from Arenas and play off of him like he did Kobe last season. Caron will only get better while Hughes was very inconsistent throughout his career. Caron will create better chemistry. He'll let Jamison and Arenas do their thing and play off of them to get his own points.


----------

