# NC vs. Villanova thread



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Didn't see a thread for this game.
Just started, Nova up 5-2 early.


I have Nova winning this one in my bracket, but we'll see.

Allan Ray continuing his horrid shooting.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Foye just hit two three's in a row!
Hopefully they can stay hot throughout the whole game.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

GO VILLANOVA!!!!!!!

UNC down 10 early!!


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

WTF? 19-9 Nova.. Could this be black ACC Friday? 

Ok so there's still time left but would love to see 'Nova win!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I compared Villanova to Arizona '97 in terms of talent before this game ever started in my personal forum. Don't be shocked if they win.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Roy Williams is such a choker.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

33-29 'Nova at halftime.. Hmmm


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Come on Wisconsin!!!!! Er, I mean Villanova.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Pan Mengtu said:


> Roy Williams is such a choker.


Yessir. Never pick a Roy Williams team to do **** in your tourney bracket. That was one of the first lessons I learned about college basketball.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Is he saying Raymond Mccants?

edit: verne corrected himself


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

I wouldnt know.. Wish I could watch the game ::sigh::


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Well I'm getting two games at a time 2 CBS stations in my area showing different things.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I must taunt you guys who can't watch this game some more...this is a great game!

I swear May just missed the easiest layup in the world. He should have just dunked it.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Felton called for a foul. 4 on him. He'll go to the bench. 

May is getting a second win. He gets the jumpball.

Don't they have wipe boys? The refs are wiping the sweat with their feet.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Foye hook shot for nova 50-47. May TO.

LOWRY! WOW. shoots scores and 1!


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Hmph poor me


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

McCants with the three!


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Son of a *****.. It's close to being over me thinks lookin at the score:curse:


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Jawad Williams with the miss.

Lowry will be a good player for Nova. (only a freshman) He's very energetic. Nova is playing great defense with awesome energy and they are a very controlled team (only 7 turnovers)


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Very close game. Mccants with the oreb. after May tipped a miss away.

Foye was called on a foul (Mccants shooting makes 1+1) Foye with 4 fouls.

57-50


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Marvin Williams makes 2 FT's 59-50 they are pulling away. 9-0 run

Allan Ray misses a Three.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Allan is having a terrible game I think's he's 2-12 or something like that.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Nova's runnin out of gas. I applaud the Heels. I thought they'd struggle once Ray got his 4th.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Foye finally scores for Nova.

Foye steals Lowry recovers it from Mccants. Lowry running it down the floor. Foye shoots Miss. Lowry rebounds and gets fouled. HARD. he's down for a sec.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Lowry makes 2. 61-54. may with 4 fouls. 3:52


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Marvin with the 3!


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

hahaha... the play by play... or... you could just listen to it @ tarheelblue.com


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

TonyM said:


> hahaha... the play by play... or... you could just listen to it @ tarheelblue.com


 I paid the 20 bucks to watch multiple games at the same time


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

8 point lead for UNC. I don't think Nova has anything left. Felton fouled out.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

ok. Nardi hit a three. Ray got fouled. 

Lowry is a reserve?


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Dang 61-64 1:21 left. I spoke way too soon.

hopefully the entire country has tuned to this.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Nardi to Foye layup missed but fouled. 40.0 secs left 64-61. This is a fun game.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Way to end a game like that


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

BS call.


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## SacTown16 (Feb 2, 2004)

That Was Far From A Travel


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Just let it go.. With 9 seconds on the clock your gonna have a travel decide a great game from what I've seen? Psh!

Whoa interesting


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

His first step was while the ball was bouncing. And that travel NEVER gets called, if it's close you see that stuff ALL THE TIME and it doesn't get called.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Damn Carolina escapes 67-66.. :curse:

Got a scare didnt they?


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## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

From a neutral fan who didn't care who won, that was definitely a travel. It's a travel the first minute of the game, then it's a travel the last minute of the game.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I liked how Raftery kept counting "1-2-3" when the guy only took 2 steps. I think the official hicuped and had to make up a call... With 2min left, they were talking like it was over. Nova really showed some heart. Too bad Sumpter was hurt.


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

I am so pissed right now. That was a crap call made by trailer trash refs. It's rather obvious that the NCAA wants North Carolina in the Championship game for Ratings, they tried to do this junk with Duke all the time for the past couple of years

What's even more irritating is the fact that Villanova was SO close to beating the team that is considered the Favorite to win it all in the tourney and then the refs decide to blow it for them. Hopefully someone slits their car tires after they leave the game


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

froggyvk said:


> From a neutral fan who didn't care who won, that was definitely a travel. It's a travel the first minute of the game, then it's a travel the last minute of the game.


they just showed the slow motion replay...it definitely was not a travel.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Bad call looking at it again.. Oh well.. Refs let UNC escape because that's the ACC's precious little team and that's the only one they have left to ride.. Psh.. 

I'm sorry you can NOT (well you can( decide a game like that with 9 seconds left.. Let the freakin ft decide the game..


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

One of the worst cases of jobbing by the officials I've seen since the Kings-Lakers in 2002. What an effing disgrace. If there's any justice either Louisville, Arizona or Illinois will win the championship. Absolutely gutless and abysmal. A sure 3 point play called a travel. I'm disgusted.


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

TonyM said:


> I liked how Raftery kept counting "1-2-3" when the guy only took 2 steps. I think the official hicuped and had to make up a call... With 2min left, they were talking like it was over. Nova really showed some heart. Too bad Sumpter was hurt.


Exactly, I mean just about half of the arena was booing the rest of the game, when that happens, you know you screwed up the call. And obviously Raftery would stick up for Carolina right then, he sure as hell wasnt going to say it was a BS call or the NCAA would have his ***


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## NovaFan113 (Mar 26, 2005)

nova got f'n jobbed


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

yes! Thanks for the bad call refs, now im still alive in my pool (i got unc winning it all).


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Nique21 said:


> It's rather obvious that the NCAA wants North Carolina in the Championship game for Ratings,


oh brother :laugh:


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I think Raftery counted way too quick it was 2 steps and he took off. The lower a seed is the higher the rating is. I don't think there is a conspiracy to have UNC in the championship game.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Yeah, that was a definite three point play there robbed. It was amazing to see Villanova make this run with this group despite this being their first NCAA visit. I can't believe they bothered showing the replay and counting the steps, when it was obviously not a travel.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

spongyfungy said:


> I don't think there is a conspiracy to have UNC in the championship game.


Honestly? They are the only ACC team left.. Why wouldnt they want em to advance?


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

B34C, you're reasoning amazes me.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

TonyM said:


> B34C, you're reasoning amazes me.


Glad it does


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

HKF said:


> If there's any justice either Louisville, Arizona or Illinois will win the championship.


Or my Badgers will just beat them on Sunday :yes:


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Brutal call. Just not buying into any conspiracies however.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

horrible horrible call
nova got jobbed


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Yea, what the hell was that?

Like TonyM was saying, Raftery was talking out of his *** when he was counting the steps.

When he counted #3, Ray was clearly in the air.
And he did it several times.


Though I don't know if that would have been a foul or not, so it may not have turned into a three point play, but it would at least cut it to one.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

It might have been a bad call, but I'm going to stick up for that ref for having the balls to make what he thought was the right call even though the game was on the line and he would be bashed by fans for it. Too many times we see refs give the benefit of the doubt to the team that's losing, so that it gets closer and "the players decide the game." It's ridiculous to me that people would advocate a different set of rules in the last minute of games than in the first minute of games.

I don't think it's obvious that it wasn't a travel anyway, it was borderline.


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

RP McMurphy said:


> It might have been a bad call, but I'm going to stick up for that ref for having the balls to make what he thought was the right call even though the game was on the line and he would be bashed by fans for it. Too many times we see refs give the benefit of the doubt to the team that's losing, so that it gets closer and "the players decide the game." It's ridiculous to me that people would advocate a different set of rules in the last minute of games than in the first minute of games.
> 
> I don't think it's obvious that it wasn't a travel anyway, it was borderline.


its very obvious on replay, in live action its arguable but you still cant call it. I dont think the ref did anything close to what you described, i think he assumed there would be contact, and there actually was contact but just not enough to call a foul in that situation. With that assumption he blew the whistle, and you saw him hesitate just long enough to change the call in his head. I think it was a cop out, and if it was a Carolina player doing the same exact thing i cant picture the ref calling a travel.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

HKF said:


> One of the worst cases of jobbing by the officials I've seen since the Kings-Lakers in 2002. What an effing disgrace. If there's any justice either Louisville, Arizona or Illinois will win the championship. Absolutely gutless and abysmal. A sure 3 point play called a travel. I'm disgusted.


*I agree....In my opinion, because UNC is the heavily favored team, it affected the way the refs called that last play. I think that if the ref would have called it a foul, in his minds, he would be the scapegoat for "costing" UNC a shot at the national championship, and he would be scrutinized heavily all throughout the nation....to call a travel there imo was an easy way out for the ref. He had to make a call, and to the refs defense, it is hard to make a call of that magnitude. Just think if he would have gotten that call wrong against Carolina...he would be crucified...I think that played a role in his thought process... Just my thought, but I think a ref should be able to see a travel when it occurs...this was a pretty easy call.

Villanova has nothing to be ashamed of, as they played 40 minutes of outstanding basketball without one of their best players. It just sucks that now they have to dream of what could have been, because of a referree's mistake. Not that it doesn't happen to a lot of teams in Sports, but it just shouldn't have to be decided by the referree's.... :frenchy: *


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

to be fair, i thought Nova was the beneficiary of a lot of close calls up to that point. Just like they always say, everything evens out in the end. Life is like a deck of cards, you gotta deal with it.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

whats up with college bball teams, thinking they need to jack up 3's all the time

how many of Villanova's 3pointers came at the start of the game, and at the rest?? you would think once UNC started defending the 3point line they would try something else or more high percentage shots

thats one of the reasons they lost

live by the 3 die by the 3 I guess


btw
Raymond Felton 11 pts 11 reb 5 assists
:clap:


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

sboydell said:


> btw
> Raymond Felton 11 pts 11 reb 5 assists


I second the :clap:. Several times last night, they were looking extremely stagnant in their offense, and Felton took it upon himself to come up with either a big 3, nice drive and shot or, drive and dish. Now, he did force it a few times (for example, the drive and dish where he was called for the charge) and he almost blew it for them by fouling out, but he was big for them last night.



> "Bill Raftery told me that he clearly did walk," Carolina coach Roy Williams offered in his opening postgame remarks, before anyone had asked.
> 
> "I knew I didn't foul him," McCants said. "... If there was going to be a foul call, it was going to be one of the worst calls I've ever seen."


 :raised_ey


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Here it is...

www.mcdl2k5.com/images/the walk1.bmp
www.mcdl2k5.com/images/the walk2.bmp
www.mcdl2k5.com/images/the walk3.bmp

And the video...
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/video/highlights

He walked.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Of course he did, and it was completely obvious from the moment he shuffled his plant foot. People are here are practically DYING to start conspiracies...


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

TonyM said:


> Here it is...
> 
> www.mcdl2k5.com/images/the walk1.bmp
> www.mcdl2k5.com/images/the walk2.bmp
> ...


First of all I want to specify, I'm not blaming the refs in any way. 

But he did not walk. 

They showed the slow motion replay on the cbs postgame show. He took two steps. After looking at the slow motion replay, Gumble, Davis, and Kellogg were all in agreement: he did not walk. It is so hard to decipher because he picked up the basketball immediately after that first step.

So in the three steps Raftery counted out on the replay during the game, he didn't yet have the ball in his hands when he took the first step.

But I think we can all agree that this was an incredibly close call and a very difficult one to make.

I just think a lot of people are frustrated because they think the refs should err on the side of conservatism at that point in the game.


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## HogsFan1188 (Nov 24, 2004)

I want to send props to the officials for making one of the most horrible crappy piece of horse **** calls that i have ever seen in my life on this planet.

They gave this game to UNC and if I were on the Villanova team, I would be raising all hell after that BS.

the refs effed up very badly and its painfully obvious :curse:


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

3 steps allowed now?

official missed the first time he walked, which was when he caught the ball and shuffled while spinning around.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Does it even matter anymore? We cant go back and change the call or outcome of the game.. There's a game tommorow.. If Wisconsin slows the game down there is that slim chance they could have a chance to win.. UNC looked beatable yesterday in a half court game.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

TonyM said:


> 3 steps allowed now?
> 
> official missed the first time he walked, which was when he caught the ball and shuffled while spinning around.


That was 2 steps. I have no clue how you saw three steps.

But I do agree that there may have been a travel when he started his move - that as well was quite close.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

One....










Two...










Three...

You do the math

And no, it doesn't matter. It didn't matter when the game went to 0:00, or 5 minutes after the game, or an hour after the game, or 13hours after the game. But, it's something to talk about til 4:05.


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## HogsFan1188 (Nov 24, 2004)

He's jumping.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

what does that have to do with anything


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## HogsFan1188 (Nov 24, 2004)

everything


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

HogsFan1188 said:


> everything


ditto!


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*the first frame wasn't a step...that was his pivot foot*


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

DHarris34Phan said:


> his *pivot* foot


which one?  :laugh: i think he had like three or pivot feet in that posession. honestly, i think the official screwed up - once, twice, maybe three times on the play. ok, i'm done. i really don't care, but it was fun talking with you all. great games tonight, weren't they?!?!


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

not sure what to think of the call, very controversial, but many are only thinking about the call, you have to remember even if he got the call he need the freetrhow to TIE the game.


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

he is allowed to takeoff on his third step, if not then Lebron has travelled on everyone of his dunk attempts, watch lebrons feet when he dunks, he got caught like three times in the olymoics pulling that crap. That was not a travelling call, the refs have been pretty ****ty in these touneys, the two offensive fouls called on Wake Forrest when the defender did not have position and the stupid carrying call. Now this phantom travelling call on Villanova.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

kg_mvp03-04 said:


> he is allowed to takeoff on his third step, if not then Lebron has travelled on everyone of his dunk attempts, watch lebrons feet when he dunks, he got caught like three times in the olymoics pulling that crap. That was not a travelling call, the refs have been pretty ****ty in these touneys, the two offensive fouls called on Wake Forrest when the defender did not have position and the stupid carrying call. Now this phantom travelling call on Villanova.


Nba is less strict on traveling calls. IE steve francis.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

TonyM said:


> Here it is...
> 
> www.mcdl2k5.com/images/the walk1.bmp
> www.mcdl2k5.com/images/the walk2.bmp
> ...


Owned. 

Could it have been let go? Maybe. It's a questionable call, and the officials would have been bashed either way, but they were closer to the right call than the wrong call. Kudos to them for not letting the games momentum change the way they call it. It's really amazing how some people are reacting to this.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

TonyM said:


> [
> 
> And no, it doesn't matter. It didn't matter when the game went to 0:00, or 5 minutes after the game, or an hour after the game, or 13hours after the game. But, it's something to talk about til 4:05.


I was away for a couple of days, but I wanted to respond to this. You are double counting the first step. The first two images are of the same step.

The way you counted, it should have actually been four steps.










One: Beginning of step with right foot










One: End of step with right foot










Two: Step with left foot


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*that is what I am saying, Truth, in the first frame, his left foot is his pivot foot, and he only takes 2 steps after leaving his pivot foot....*


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

bro, he didn't have a true pivot foot because he traveled while making up his mind which foot he wanted to be his pivot foot.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

TonyM said:


> bro, he didn't have a true pivot foot because he traveled while making up his mind which foot he wanted to be his pivot foot.



But if you look at the pictures you posted, he only took two steps.


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