# OT: Lakers/Pistons finals thread.



## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

between the loathing many of us have for the Lakers and the worship/loathing we have for Rasheed, seems to me it might be worth while to have a thread devoted to the topic. 

my next post will be something I wrote on the Playoffs board. it was a lot longer than I thought, and my ego won't allow it to reside only on page two of what'll likely be a 50 page thread on that board. so lucky you.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

it's interesting to take a historical perspective on this finals series and compare it to the other three that Shaq/Kobe/Phil have been in.

• 2000 Finals Lakers won in 6 over Indiana
Indiana presented clutch shooting in Reggie Miller, a good center in Rik Smits, hard-nosed (albeit overpowered) defense in All-Star Dale Davis. Great coaching in Larry Bird. A good, but not great team.

Detroit has as good a center as that team had--better if you compare Sheed/Ben to Davis/Smits. Both teams allow Shaq to sit in the middle (guarding Dale/Ben) and let somebody else rotate to the big man on the perimeter (Smits/Sheed). Rip will probably be better than Reggies was in that series. Reggie was streaky as hell while Rip has so far been Mr Consistency.

• 2001 Finals Lakers won in 5 over Sixers
Who can forget Mutombo trying to guard Shaq with his face for most of the series? Didn't do much good though. Iverson got his points (and in one game a ton of assists) but it didn't really matter. Sixers were the one team to actually win a playoff game against the most dominant of the Lakers championship teams.

Detroit is a similar defensive team to that Sixers team. Unsurprising in that they had the same coach. But Detroit is not as much a one-trick pony on offense, and their defense is even better. People (including myself) always compare Rip to Reggie, but I think the 2004 playoffs will actually find Rip looking a lot like Iverson. Slashing, diving, killing with that midrange shot. It'll be interesting to see if Phil Jackson can invent a new Tyronne Lue for this series.

• 2002 Finals Lakers won in 4 games over the Nets
The Nets were another one-man team, with Kidd being the only guy putting up consistent offense. Their best interior defender, Kenyon Martin, had no hope in doing anything to disrupt Shaq. Neither did anyone else.

Detroit with Rip can be such a one-man offense like the Nets or Sixers. Both teams played hard-nosed defense. New Jersey relied mostly on the break to score, while Detroit simply tries to grind out every possession. In the Finals, grinding seems to work better against the Lakers--hey, at least the Sixers won a game, unlike Jersey.

My conclusions:
Obviously, every season is different. The Lakers added Payton and Malone, and many of the role players have changed (even if the roles really haven't).

But this isn't the best Laker finals team we've seen--the 2001 team was clearly more cohesive, more Shaq-oriented, better defensively and just plain more dominant.

Also, the zone defense has changed the way big men can defend Shaq. That, coupled with the additional stars and Shaq's waning athleticism have resulted in Shaq shooting fewer times in these playoffs than he has since his first ring. Say what you want about "more options," but any (non-Laker) fan will tell you practically any shot Shaq doesn't take is a small victory for the defense.

As for comparisons, Detroit seems to look the most like a better version of the Sixers.

Similar hard-nosed defense. But Ben and Sheed are each better defenders than anyone on that Sixers team.

Similar in that they have one reliable scorer, who causes havok by running all over the place and canning the midrange jumper. But Detroit's scorer actually shoots at a respectable percentage.

Detroit has a better PG, and that's where LA's defense has always been most vulnerable. Aaron McKie is just not the offensive threat Billups can be.

Detroit has a better coach, in that Larry Brown now has the Finals experience of battling Shaq, Kobe and Phil.

That Sixers squad scored a major coup by actually beating the Lakers once--something no other team could do in the playoffs. As I've shown, this Detroit team is easily better. If that Sixers team could take the very best Lakers team and steal a game, then this superior Detroit team should be able to win at least two, maybe three against LA.

I'm going with the Lakers in seven games. If I were to admit to my own Detroit homerism, I might allow the Lakers in six. But I won't.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Good stuff!!!!!... but I find it funny that you think Larry Bird provided Indiana with "great coaching".

Thats a GREAT quote by Larry Brown!!!! FUNNY!!!!

GO PISTONS!!!!


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

maybe it's just because it's been a few years, but looking back on that Indiana team, there really wasn't THAT much talent. Reggie, Rik Smits, Jackson, Dale Davis--all good players, but not really great (by then Reggie had started to slow). 

I think Bird did a pretty good job in whipping that team into a Finals team in just three years. 

I'd gladly take Bird's stoic stance over Mo's constant head-hanging and hand-wringing on my sideline. I'll admit it's a rather straw man argument though...


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

true... good point.


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

I read this on Detroit's board. I like Sheed's attitude. Ben's too. 



> The heavy odds favor Shaq, which makes sense to most people. Uh, most people not named Wallace.
> 
> “Ben and I are going to go hard and do what we can,” Rasheed Wallace said Thursday, as the Pistons prepared for their NBA Finals meeting against the Lakers. “That’s a big man right there. We’re not going to back down from him, though.”
> 
> ...


*Interesting Article*


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## AxS50 (Feb 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> maybe it's just because it's been a few years, but looking back on that Indiana team, there really wasn't THAT much talent. Reggie, Rik Smits, Jackson, Dale Davis--all good players, but not really great (by then Reggie had started to slow).


They had Jalen Rose, too. He had a pretty good shooting year, 18pts, 47% fg, 39% from 3...

I remember a game in the FInals when both he and Reggie hung 40 on the Lakers... can't remember who won, though.

But true, no great players...


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Yea, don't forget about Jalen Rose (about 23 ppg in that series.) Pacers had lots of other players too. Derrick McKey. Sam Perkins. Best. And don't forget how great CROSHERE was in that series. I just looked up his numbers. The guy shot 24-41 FGs and 39-45 FTs for the series. 45 FTs in 6 games off the bench is REMARKABLE. He averaged 15 ppg for the series.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

Another discussion on the NBA Playoffs' board that I think warrants further discussion over here - is it a good idea to have Rasheed guard Shaq for any length of time? 

The Blazers did that extremely sparingly, as I recall, because it made more sense to have other players use up their fouls, while Sheed just tried to match Shaq's offensive output by scoring on the other end. 

But can Elden Campbell and Ben Wallace be effective? 

Of course, Shaq will be the key to this series. If the Pistons can keep him around 20 ppg, they've got a shot.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

I think to guard Shaq you need two things...

1 - Strength to keep him away from the basket and away from his favorite spots.

2 - Length to bother his shot.

You need #1 all the time and #2 when he's about to shoot. That's why I think they should put Ben on him primarily to match his strength (Ben benches 480 apparently), and then use Sheed for double help.

Sheed has a ton of experience with this role as we all know and he'd be the best guy to quickly get to run between Shaq and Malone and use his length to bother shots.

Not saying it will work, but that's what I would try first.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't think you worry quite as much about saving fouls on your second or third scoring option, which is what Sheed is in Detroit. 

In Portland he was the primary guy because we had such a mismatch against LA at PF position. Detroit has nicer mismatches at other positions. While Malone will probably keep Sheed fairly under control, LA just doesn't have anyone who matches the speed of Rip Hamilton or Chauncy Billups. 

I say you start Sheed against Shaq by having him front Shaq as much as possible. Combined with some good post entry defense, they may be able to take Shaq out of long stretches of the game, which is all you can really do. The best way to control Shaq is to never allow him to get the ball. They'll get some lobs, but Sheed's length won't make it easy. 

The other advantage of this defense is that it frees up Ben for weakside shot blocking. If he has Shaq on his back the whole night, he just can't afford to guard the basket. With Malone on him, though, he's much more able to roam.


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

*Do the pistons have a chance?*

They beat La by 12 in LA in game one!

*Believe


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

I think they do.:starwars:


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

There is nothing more I would like to see then watching GP and Malone go down. They took the easy way out. It would be great to see it blow up in their face. 

^ a little bitter , but I absolutely hate LA


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Can Good triumph over Evil? Seems unlikely, but Good is up 1-0 for now. I'm gonna enjoy it while I can...

barfo


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> Can Good triumph over Evil? Seems unlikely, but Good is up 1-0 for now. I'm gonna enjoy it while I can...


agreed!


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

I didn't see the game, so what I'm going by is the nba.com blog and the box score. 

It seems to me, that the Lakers will get better scoring production out of Malone and Payton in most of the remaining games, and that would have made a big difference in tonight's game. Shaq will get frustrated if he's scoring 30+ points a night and the Lakers aren't winning, so LA better hope someone starts stepping up and shooting well. From the sounds of it, Kobe was bothered by the defense of Tayshaun Prince - not surprising considering Prince's combination of quickness and length. 

On the other hand, it certainly seems like the Pistons could have played better (lots of missed free throws and short-range jumpers?), yet they still beat the Lakers handily. If I were Larry Brown, I'd want to just keep playing loose but aggressive on offense and continue to tighten the screws on defense. It's working. 

Before this series started, I thought of the Pistons as a 10:1 long shot. I still think they're unlikely to win... but I wouldn't put up the kind of money I was talking about now that Game One is history. 

Can you believe Rasheed Wallace is three victories away from a ring? No jinxes - Go Sheed! :yes:


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Pistons are going to have to beat LA in LA at least once more if they want the ring. I think it will be tough,but the main matchup is Prince on Kobe. Prince played great D on Kobe similar to what D Miles did to Kobe when we blew them out in Staples earlier this year. Both are long,lanky, athletic players that disrupt Kobe.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

pistons can win the series if they score 90 a game I cant wait to see sheed with a ring


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

I don't think I have ever seen Lakers look
worse.
Stunning 4th quarter by the Pistons.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Deleted. Don't bait an individual. 

Thought you said the Pistons wouldn't win this series?

Looks like Sheed is going the way of Clyde. Like Clyde, Sheed is looking to sweep Shaq in the NBA Finals in the same season he was traded by the Blazers.

GREAT game by Sheed today. SO efficient! The guy took 4 shots, only missed ONE (which he rebounded and scored on) and came up with 14 pts (2nd on Pistons) and 8 rebounds (1st Pistons).

Face it. He's more than a role player. He's their star. Before the game, the front page of ESPN.com was a shot of Sheed and Shaq. 

When you lead your team in rebounding and are second in scoring, you are more than just a role player.

He is, quite simply, the DIFFERENCE. Sheed scored 14. Pistons won by 12.

Enjoy!

If we had been patient and put the right talent around Sheed, this could have been US winning a ring!

P.S. Props to Billups for kickin butt, to Hunter and Campbell for stickin it to their old team, and to Prince for making some HUGE plays.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Jackie- 

by the way, don't be surprised by tonight's outcome. Sheed is 2-0 vs the Lakers now this year.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

*The Official "Blazers Who Sweep Shaq In Finals After We Trade Them" Thread*

Clyde Drexler.

Soon to add Rasheed Wallace?


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Nathan,the only real surprize here is the fact you seem to still
be baiting and getting away with it...


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I hope so


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## BlazerMania (Apr 5, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Deleted. Don't bait an individual.
> 
> If we had been patient and put the right talent around Sheed, this could have been US winning a ring!



Nooo, the Blazers are better off without him now. Does anyone know what the Hawks were doing trading him?


What is baiting?


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BlazerMania</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hawks got one more draft pick in that trade.


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## BlazerMania (Apr 5, 2004)

That's it? I wonder how much Rasheed had to do with him not staying in ATL...


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## mixum (Mar 19, 2003)

*riiiiiiiiiiight?*

the pistons will be lucky to win another game.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

PISTONS in 6!!!!! Detroit's defense is awsome... they have one of the best defense's in NBA history, and they dont even have a true center... the Lakers cant keep up with the Pistons energy.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Why do you say that, mixum?

This wasn't like 1991 when the Lakers squeaked out Game 1 on a last second shot vs Jordan's Bulls, nor was it like 2001 when Iverson scored nearly 50 points to help his team win in OVERTIME. The Pistons DOMINATED the Lakers. These Pistons have NEVER lost vs these Lakers. Sheed is undefeated vs these Lakers. And NOW the Pistons have Home Court Advantage. Exactly what edge do the Lakers have? You're not gonna get better free throw shooting from Shaq!

The Pistons are BETTER. They are 6-3 on the road in the playoffs. They disposed of the 61 win Pacers in SIX GAMES. They are 33-11 with Sheed. They are simply the better team.

Payton and Malone's coattail riding won't work.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

i'm still counting on the Lakers winning in 6. I just don't see Malone stinking it up that badly again, and that was really the differnce maker. The Sixers stole the first game a few years ago in the Finals, and look what that got them. 

I would truly, truly love to see the Lakers get swept in the finals, though. I feel a little embarassed even contemplating the idea, but man would that be rich. It'd even take all the sting off of my team missing the playoffs. 

hopefully Larry Brown is able to execute the same game plan in game two: 

• use lots of guys in single coverage on Shaq. let him get his buckets but don't leave anyone else open. 

• plan on Kobe trying to take over the game in the late third quarter. hopefully he'll be just as winded as he was yesterday from chasing Hamilton. tired legs lead to bad shooting. 

this could be fun.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> i'm still counting on the Lakers winning in 6. I just don't see Malone stinking it up that badly again, and that was really the differnce maker. The Sixers stole the first game a few years ago in the Finals, and look what that got them.


but the difference is, when the 76ers took game 1, the Lakers were off for like 10 straight days. The 76ers barely beat the Lakers in game 1, in OT. They were lucky to win game 1. The Pistons weren't "lucky" to win game 1. 

They could just easily lose this series tho.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

*Tayshaun Prince*

How long will it take to shut people up about Carmelo Anthony? Tayshaun Prince is GREAT. I think the reason he dropped is that he's clearly one of those creatures from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I mean, nobody is ever going to say "I want to be Tayshaun Prince! He's so graceful and hunky!" The guy looks like someone took Reggie Miller, starved him, then pulled REALLY HARD on each limb.

I love this Pistons team: with Rip, Ben and Prince, they're the ANTI-cool.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

that's a pretty good point, Hap, but weren't the Lakers off for 7 or 8 days this time too? I know the Pistons were as well, but they ALWAYS play with high energy. I think you could've sat Detroit for a month and they'd still be frenetic. 

I hope you're right and that's just about the energy level we can expect out of LA for the series. I have a nagging suspiscion it won't be, though...


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Tayshaun Prince*



> Originally posted by <b>meru</b>!
> The guy looks like someone took Reggie Miller, starved him, then pulled REALLY HARD on each limb.
> 
> I love this Pistons team: with Rip, Ben and Prince, they're the ANTI-cool.


LOL! 

you left off Lindsey Hunter. nothing is more anti-cool than a guy named Lindsey.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> that's a pretty good point, Hap, but weren't the Lakers off for 7 or 8 days this time too? I know the Pistons were as well, but they ALWAYS play with high energy. I think you could've sat Detroit for a month and they'd still be frenetic.


yah, but the difference was, the 76ers were off like what, 3 days before hand?

The Pistons got 1 less day of rest to recoup their injuries.

It's just a cop out, thats oddly enough, being used by the Laker players.

My favorite line was Kobe saying "we were feeling them out"..

Hey, Kobe? shouldn't you guys have been "feeling them out" *BEFORE* the game?



> I hope you're right and that's just about the energy level we can expect out of LA for the series. I have a nagging suspiscion it won't be, though...


I don't either, but it's funny how almost everyone is discounting the Pistons defence.

Everyone keeps saying how it's impossible for the Lakers role players not to lay another egg like they did...when the *reason* they laid and egg was BECAUSE of Detroits defensive style.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BlazerMania</b>!
> That's it? I wonder how much Rasheed had to do with him not staying in ATL...


or, maybe atl we're planning to get as many ping-pong balls as possible?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

What Kobe has yet to realize is....

the Pistons were feeling out the LAKERS!!

These Sheed-led Pistons had not played the Lakers until last night. This was a feel out game for Sheed and his boys could get on the Lakers. Sheed realized last night that this will be a pretty easy series. NOW, he's gonna pour it on.

Laker fans should be TERRIFIED.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> These Sheed-led Pistons had not played the Lakers until last night. This was a feel out game for Sheed and his boys could get on the Lakers. Sheed realized last night that this will be a pretty easy series. NOW, he's gonna pour it on.
> 
> Laker fans should be TERRIFIED.


Sheed-Led? First off, Billups and Big Ben are the team captains. I'm also guessing that Billups, Ben, and Rip are the leaders of this team..


Do you have a link of Sheed realizing after last night this will be an easy series?


Also, Laker fans have seen Sheed play against the Lakers dozens of times. I'm sure they aren't terrified. Let's give credit to the Pistons as a team, not just Sheed. Sheed is a role player with Detroit. That's it.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

The Piston defense is how good? So good that Shaq got 34 points on dunks and Kobe got 25 on a off night shooting for him. The only reason LA lost is cause Shaq and Kobe scored all of their points and GP and Karl might as well not even played.
George, Rush and Fox couldn't hit squat with wide open looks.

That will not happen twice. I'm glad the Pistons got their one and only win. In doing so LA will now have motive to beat them to death.

Make no mistake about it, LA will kill Detroit in game 2!

As for the great defense of Wallace and Wallace, Shaq sure seemed slowed down with 34!:laugh: :laugh:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> The Piston defense is how good? So good that Shaq got 34 points on dunks and Kobe got 25 on a off night shooting for him. The only reason LA lost is cause Shaq and Kobe scored all of their points and GP and Karl might as well not even played.
> George, Rush and Fox couldn't hit squat with wide open looks.
> 
> ...


what normally kills teams when they play the Lakers?

doubling Kobe and Shaq, and leaving role players (Kareem Rush, Derek Fisher, Bob Horry, Rick Fox, meddy) wiiiiide open to drain a 3.

That and lack of rebounding.

I'd say letting shaq and kobe go off was brilliant defense.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Sheed is the leader. Did you hear all the Pistons talk when Sheed guaranteed the Pistons would beat the Pacers in Game 2? They all talked about making sure he was right. They followed his lead. And who was on the front page of ESPN.com before the Finals started? SHEED and SHAQ.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Terrible- The Lakers will not KILL the Pistons in Game 2.

Watch.


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## Sha-Kobe O'Bryant (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Why do you say that, mixum?
> 
> This wasn't like 1991 when the Lakers squeaked out Game 1 on a last second shot vs Jordan's Bulls, nor was it like 2001 when Iverson scored nearly 50 points to help his team win in OVERTIME. The Pistons DOMINATED the Lakers. These Pistons have NEVER lost vs these Lakers. Sheed is undefeated vs these Lakers. And NOW the Pistons have Home Court Advantage. Exactly what edge do the Lakers have? You're not gonna get better free throw shooting from Shaq!
> ...


Here we go again.

Prematurely declaring the Lakers' demise. :naughty:


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> The Piston defense is how good? So good that Shaq got 34 points on dunks and Kobe got 25 on a off night shooting for him. The only reason LA lost is cause Shaq and Kobe scored all of their points and GP and Karl might as well not even played.
> George, Rush and Fox couldn't hit squat with wide open looks.
> 
> ...


Considering T.Price and RIP had off nights too which is pretty much there best players I think the Pistons have a pretty good argument on why they have a chance to win this series. 

Yea Shaqs 34 really helped them...


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

actually, other teams have tried to play Shaq and Kobe straight up. most of the time they just got bulldozed. the Nets tried it, and it earned for them a sweep by LA. the Sixers did it, and at least they won one game. 

the reason this is working (so far) is that this Detroit team is a lot longer and quicker than most teams that try to not doubleteam the Lakers. they've really slowed down the ball movement of LA, and practically eliminated the half court dribble penetration of everyone but Kobe. 

I've been watching Detroit all playoffs, and they don't always win. but they always play at a certain high level--they never really beat themselves (except with turnovers). That's because Detroit is tied with the Jordan/Pippen/Rodman Bulls as being the best defensive team I've ever seen. (They're offense, of course, is a long ways off.)

LA has made a living in this playoffs by waiting for the other team to take themselves out, then pouncing. I just don't think it's going to happen here. When they win, it'll be because they've ground out a few more points when Detroit's offense has stalled. 

It's kind of funny. The theory has always been that you need to outrun Shaq's Lakers--beat them in a full court game. But three of the very best teams to match up against them, this year's Pistons, the Spurs and our 2000 Blazers, were really slow-it-down, low post teams.


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## Sha-Kobe O'Bryant (Jan 3, 2003)

*KOBE*


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

live it up la fans, because your run at top is gonna be ended soon..real soon. You should be thankful Detroit handed you the game.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Bryant is certainly good in the clutch, but remember: he clanked a quick three shortly before that, and Shaq bailed him out with a three point play off the rebound, AND Bryant missed a FT at a crucial juncture. If he hadn't, they wouldn't have needed a three to tie. If I were Shaq, I'd be a wee bit peeved about all the Kobe adulation, especially given two stats that they showed near the end of the game: they projected the Lakers with Shaq out over 48 mins in this playoffs, and they would lose by *24*. Plus, Bryant is shooting 14% on threes in the 4th in these playoffs.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Shoulda... woulda... coulda... but why didnt L.Brown put Prince on Kobe (RIP isnt exactly a defensive stopper), why didnt the Pistons foul Shaq BEFORE he passed the ball to Kobe, why didnt the Pistons fould Kobe and prevent him from even attempting the 3??? I was so damn pissed!!! and that foul they called on B.Wallace on Shaq was garbage, Ben deserves enough respect from the officials to be allowed to stand with his arms straight up and not get called for it, he didnt even make an effort to go for the ball... I thought the Pistons had this one, going to Detroit up 2 games... [email protected]!!!!!


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Kobe Bryant drained a 
3-pointer with 2.1 seconds left .

or


Foul immediately :

Two made free throws would have won the game for Detroit.
With the ball in their possession
roll the ball down court ala
Magic Johnson against the blazers ..
game over.

Detroit wins..


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Jackie darling, if they foul Kobe, he shoots the ball anyway and hits it and the Lakers win in regulation on a 4 pt play, ala Larry Johnson.

Fouling woulda been stupid.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Jackie darling, if they foul Kobe, he shoots the ball anyway and hits it and the Lakers win in regulation on a 4 pt play, ala Larry Johnson.
> 
> Fouling woulda been stupid.


I think she meant foul Shaq....

BTW WHy in the heck were they guarding Shaq that far out if they weren't going to foul him. Make Shaq take the three and double or triple team Kobe if needed.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm amazed that the Lakers lost the first game and even struggled in the second, not cause they can't lose but that the refs are not deciding the games with phantom fouls early in each game. In fact Shaq and Kobe both had massive foul problems last night. I was for sure the refs would not allow a fair game. If the Lakers can't make their shots outside of Shaq and Kobe than the next three in Detroit could be hell for them. Karl and GP have done nothing and both have shown their age. 

We'll see, but the refs have not made it look fixed so far!


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> I'm amazed that the Lakers lost the first game and even struggled in the second, not cause they can't lose but that the refs are not deciding the games with phantom fouls early in each game. In fact Shaq and Kobe both had massive foul problems last night. I was for sure the refs would not allow a fair game. If the Lakers can't make their shots outside of Shaq and Kobe than the next three in Detroit could be hell for them. Karl and GP have done nothing and both have shown their age.
> 
> We'll see, but the refs have not made it look fixed so far!


I bet David Stern was sweating it out last night though, afraid his babys might go down 2...


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

I still remember Sheed being booted out of the WCF's for staring at a ref, just staring. Now he can't get kicked out, Kobe has five fouls in the 4th, Shaq has 4 and offensive fouls are being called on the Daddy Dork on his home court. What the hell is going on here?

It's all very strange!


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

no foul kobe..
he had at least three dribbles before hoisting..
ot at the very least foul shaq ~~~


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Well Nathan..
apparently my thought was shared by almost all of the reporters
on NBA tv..
there were a ton of interviews and they all said the same thing...
foul kobe...
and before that,why didn't they foul shaq..

i turn to NBA tv immediately after the game and there are interviews that are not on reg tv..


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Gary and Karl may prove to be the reason they suddenly are a thin team.. wow..they are worthless with injuries and what not.
man those guys look old on the court.


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

Good triumphs over Lakers. 

Get up, everybody's gonna move their feet
Get down, everybody's gotta leave their seat
Lakers gonna lose in Detroit rock city


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

I have to say the Lakers are in part, beating themselves. Simply put, the Lakers haven't had to deal with a team that's this good at every position defensively, as this Pistons' team, since last year's Spurs. There's a good reason the Lakers couldn't get past San Antonio last year, and why they very well may lose to Detroit in five games. 

Simply - Ben Wallace is able to slow down and disrupt Shaq enough that he's not dominant on offense, that's as much as you can hope for. 

Rasheed Wallace so owns Karl Malone, and Malone is so banged up and immobile, that Sheed can cheat over on Shaq when the two are positioned close to one another. 

Tayshaun Prince can hold his own against Kobe. Bryant is so used to players either being too slow or too small, that he's not sure how to handle Prince's defense. 

Rip Hamilton is good enough on defense to keep with Devean George, though honestly, those open looks George got tonight were inexcusable. 

Finally, Chauncey Billups is flat-out better than both Gary Payton and Derek Fisher in this series. 

And what's more, the Pistons lose very little when they go to the bench - Okur is a decent defender and can shoot, Corliss Williamson is tough and can score, Lindsey Hunter is quick and reliable as a point guard, and Elden Campbell has been more than serviceable in playing physical against Shaq, who'd I miss? 

I really didn't think the Pistons had a chance, so I sit impressed. They're establishing themselves as the aggressor, and they're taking advantage of a Laker team that's not as athletic and overpowering as it used to be.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

This is the worst Laker team in many a year.

Pistons would be close to a sweep
if it were not for the last second shot.

Guess the "old stars " are not the answer.

Plus talk about shutting down Kobe !
amazing.

Shaq is most definitely in decline.

It's gonna be fun in the west from now on out.

Pistons are far from my favorite team,but when you consider the alternative..Go Pistons !


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

*The Glove in Lord of the Rings?*

This is pretty funny -- who knew about Payton's film career? The Round Mound of Rebound, that's who.

http://www.bigtent.blogspot.com/


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Where's the outrage in the press about Malone going after a fan before the game? About how "physical contact with a fan is never justified"? Where's the call for the league to suspend him?

If Wells got a couple of games for yelling at someone in the stands, and Vernon Maxwell got a 10 game suspension for going after a guy in the stands, then shouldn't Malone be suspended for some time period in between the two?

I haven't seen anything in the press this morning - am I just missing it?


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## Sha-Kobe O'Bryant (Jan 3, 2003)

This thing is far from over.

Like the Phoenix, the Lakers will rise from the ashes.

Please count them out the way many, many have done in the past.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> Where's the outrage in the press about Malone going after a fan before the game? About how "physical contact with a fan is never justified"? Where's the call for the league to suspend him?
> 
> If Wells got a couple of games for yelling at someone in the stands, and Vernon Maxwell got a 10 game suspension for going after a guy in the stands, then shouldn't Malone be suspended for some time period in between the two?
> ...


So far, this is all I've come up with:

From the LA Times 

"Karl Malone was involved in a pregame altercation with a fan that led to the fan's being expelled.

According to an NBA official, a complaint of assault was filed by the fan and tapes of the incident were obtained by local police.

Witnesses said the fan, whose name was unavailable, became confrontational when Malone arrived on the floor Thursday night before Game 3. Malone, according to the league officials, put his hand near the man's face when spit upon and the fan then shoved Malone's hand away."


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

With regard to Malone- star treatment. LA will be given every opportunity, and then some, to win by the NBA. If Rasheed had done the same thing, he would have been suspended immediately. Stern continues to ensure everybody realizes the NBA is about marketing and not wins & loses.

As I see it, Detroit has clearly outplayed LA for 3 games. In game 2 when Shaq picked up his 5th it was clear he wouldn't get a 6th- even if he pulled a gun and shot Ben Wallace. Now, all that said, Kobe's shot was amazing. I'd say lucky, but not to him. Kobe is a great player and great players hit great shots. Kobe is the MJ of this era.

So, can LA get it back? Yes, but it's gonna be very difficult. I agree with Public Defender that Detroit has above average defenders at every position and a few off the bench. They have also been playing smart team defense. They are allowing fewer wide open '"3's" than other teams and those are dagger shots for the Lakers. I have always thought the best way to defend LA was to let Shaq have his points and defend the perimeter. Turn them into a 1 player team and not allow them to be a 5 player team.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BLAZER PROPHET</b>!
> As I see it, Detroit has clearly outplayed LA for 3 games.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

*Sheed Misunderstood?*

Well, was that the problem in Portland? He's just misunderstood? Ok, I'm not trying to bag or "hate" on Sheed here. He had a great game, and I'm glad he took it to the Lakers. But I just about fell out of my chair with the commentators saying he's just misunderstood, and then saying Brown said, "he's the most misunderstood player in the NBA".. Then added he just wants to win. So, was Rodman just misunderstood? Or any other "bad boy" just misunderstood? 

Personally, I think it's just a cop out.


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