# Just traded Kurt Thomas for......



## Sedd

Nothing. Not sure how that makes us better.

Have fun in Seattle Kurt. I thought you did a great job when you got minutes.


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## Ruff Draft

Huh?


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## Sedd

Just reported on Xtra 910.

Sonics had a fat trade exception and used it.


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## Dissonance

We also gave up Suns own '08 first rder and a 2010 one and get 8 M Trade exception, which they got for Lewis. Oh, and a conditional 2nd rder from them

link




> The Arizona Republic
> Jul. 20, 2007 09:01 AM
> The Suns traded center Kurt Thomas this morning in a move that relieves some salary-cap pressure.
> 
> Thomas goes to the Seattle SuperSonics, along with the Suns' own 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks in exchange for a future conditional 2nd round pick and a trade exception, worth about $8 million.
> 
> The league's new luxury tax threshold -- the number at which teams would begin to be taxed -- came in higher than the Suns expected, at $67.9 million, and would have left Phoenix more than $10 million over that number.
> 
> The Suns also re-signed Sean Marks. If draft picks Alando Tucker and D.J. Strawberry make the team, that would leave Phoenix with one roster position open. They will be looking to fill it with a free-agent front-line player.


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## BlakeJesus

So let me get this straight, Suns traded Kurt Thomas and 08 and 10 first rounders for a second rounder and 8 mil? lolol


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## Dissonance

GregOden said:


> So let me get this straight, Suns traded Kurt Thomas and 08 and 10 first rounders for a second rounder and 8 mil? lolol



It's obviously a salary dump to shave off most of the luxary tax. They'd still have to end up paying tax though.


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## jericho

This is bizarre. They're obviously counting on low first rounders that they wouldn't have much use for anyway. Also counting on the continued health of their core rotation, and on being an attractive free agent destination for role-players. All are good bets. 

Still, Kurt (creaky as he was) seems like too valuable a player to simply sacrifice for financial breathing room. Is there any reliable frontcourt help once you get past Amare and the 6'7" Marion?


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## Dissonance

jericho said:


> This is bizarre. They're obviously counting on low first rounders that they wouldn't have much use for anyway. Also counting on the continued health of their core rotation, and on being an attractive free agent destination for role-players. All are good bets.
> 
> Still, Kurt (creaky as he was) seems like too valuable a player to simply sacrifice for financial breathing room. Is there any reliable frontcourt help once you get past Amare and the 6'7" Marion?


I agree, he is valuable. Sucks to see him go. I hope they have a plan. My guess is they might have PJ Brown lined up to take vet min and fill that hole. 

Kurt Thomas though, could've helped the team by opting out this summer and taking less. I really didn't expect him to. Probably knows this is his last big money yr, if he plays longer.


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## LineOFire

At least he won't be able to make 100% of his mid-range jumpers against the Spurs again.


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## skatesb16

I am really getting tired of the Suns. So now we've traded Junior and Dirrty for nothing. This had better all be in preparation for something big, like getting KG without losing Trix, STAT, or Nash. But of course that can't happen. And I thought Sarver already said he would pay the luxury tax?


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## different_13

I thought everyone 'knew' that the Suns owner doesn't want to pay luxury tax?



> They're obviously counting on low first rounders that they wouldn't have much use for anyway.


Well, this is the first year the Suns have actually kept a first-rounder in ages..

They've sold (I think) Luol Deng, Rudy Fernandez, Rajon Rondo, traded Q and Nate Robinson for Kurt Thomas, and probably a few others.

Oh, and this also means you traded Q and Nate (both perfect for the system, though admittedly Barbosa makes Nate superfluous) for an exception and a (conditional!) second round draft pick..

All those cost-cutting moves, yet they sign Marcus Banks to a big contract..


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## Dissonance

skatesb16 said:


> I am really getting tired of the Suns. So now we've traded Junior and Dirrty for nothing. This had better all be in preparation for something big, like getting KG without losing Trix, STAT, or Nash. But of course that can't happen. And I thought Sarver already said he would pay the luxury tax?



The way it's set now, Suns still have to pay some tax. He just doesn't want it to be ridiculous amounts


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## Dissonance

different_13 said:


> I thought everyone 'knew' that the Suns owner doesn't want to pay luxury tax?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is the first year the Suns have actually kept a first-rounder in ages..
> 
> They've sold (I think) Luol Deng, Rudy Fernandez, Rajon Rondo, traded Q and Nate Robinson for Kurt Thomas, and probably a few others.
> 
> Oh, and this also means you traded Q and Nate (both perfect for the system, though admittedly Barbosa makes Nate superfluous) for an exception and a (conditional!) second round draft pick..
> 
> All those cost-cutting moves, yet they sign Marcus Banks to a big contract..


Nate, Deng, Rondo, and Rudy were picked because that is what the teams wanted. Suns sold their picks because players who they want arent there and try to save money instead. Or in the case of Deng, they thought Igoudala wasnt going to be there.

Banks was the 3rd option. They wanted Tim Thomas and Salmons before him.


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## mediocre man

The Pacific Northwest thanks the Suns owner for being cheap

Portland

Jones
Fernandez
Rodriguez

Seattle

Thomas
2 frist round picks


all for virtually nothing 


Hopefully the Suns will use that money to get KG somehow


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## Ezmo

This had better be the first steps toward bringing in KG or another big man...if not, the team is getting thinner than I could have ever envisioned.


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## skatesb16

So, by trading Kurt, has Sean Marks just become our Duncan stopper? We're screwed if we come up against the Spurs next year in the playoffs. I was really hoping we would, because I feel like we could have taken them this year, and thought next year we could get our revenge. But now, who can stop Duncan? Are we counting on Amare to miraculously become a great defender who can stay out of foul trouble?


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## Seuss

**** the Suns.

Sarver's a cheap *******, and all my thoughts have come true. There's nothing to say other then Sarver is more worried about money then a championship. 

I guess we should start praying the Suns somehow don't face the Spurs in next years playoffs.


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## Jabroni

Oh come on! Sarver is really leaving us out in the cold on this one. We need to make a major move before the season or else I don't see this team making the finals anymore. What happened to the eyes on the prize. We better pray we get Garnett with those exceptions we just racked up. What do we have now 11 million?


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## Seuss

Jabroni said:


> Oh come on! Sarver is really leaving us out in the cold on this one. We need to make a major move before the season or else I don't see this team making the finals anymore. What happened to the eyes on the prize. We better pray we get Garnett with those exceptions we just racked up. What do we have now 11 million?



We're not getting KG. 

The best Suns could do is sign PJ Brown for a small 1 year contract.
I doubt that happens.


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## 1fast540i

Who do we have in the frontcourt? 

Amare sucks at defense. 
Diaw is as soft as a marshmallow. 

KT is the only one who was able to guard Duncan one on one and do a decent job. 

I agree that at $8 million (or $16 million if you consider the cap hit), he was overpaid. I also agree that it doesn't make sense to pay out $8 million (or $16 million) for a guy who is only useful against Duncan and spends 80% of his time on the bench. 

That said, trading away KT really hurts our chance at getting past the Spurs. Which hurts are chances of winning it all. 

What is worse is KT is an expiring contract. Keeping KT would have let us remain flexible. If Marion stays in his deal next year, KT comes off the books and we can either save $8 million or go shopping for an $8 million dollar player. If Marion opts out and someone else offers him a max deal, we can use the cap space from Marion and KT to offer KG or Kobe a max deal. I don't think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that we can offer a player from another team a max deal with just Marion coming off the books. 

Bottom line: 

Keeping KT: 
Helps us against the Spurs 
Gives us front court depth 
Gives us an expiring contract 
Gives us flexibility for the coming year 

Trading KT: 
Leaves us thin in the front line 
Prevents us from having max money in next years free agent frenzy 
Costs us a late first round pick next year 
Costs us a first round pick in 2010 that could be valuable. 
Leaves us with no one to guard Duncan 

Jerry would have paid tax. Sarver is a cheap-***. He won't pay for some more depth and flexibility yet he owns 2 huge Paradise Valley estates within walking distance from each other. Maybe he should sell one so he can pay less real estate taxes.


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## 1fast540i

Our new lineup for 07-08 

STARTERS 
Nash 
Bell 
Hill 
Marion 
Amare 

BENCH 
Barbosa 
Diaw 
DJ or Tucker 


So we have one Power Forward in our top 8 players, no center, and a PG who we ask to play in the post even though he hates physical play (Diaw). 

I love the Suns run and gun style, and it has worked well during the last 3 years, BUT the Suns organization is wrong if they think they can play run and gun against San Antonio. The Spurs are too good! We tried it last year and it did not work! 

What happens this year if Hill goes down and Barbosa or Diaw has a **** year? We are left with 5 starters, a player in a slump, and two rookies as our main 8 man rotation.


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## Zuca

The problem is that your team traded an EXPIRING CONTRACT and TWO 1st rounders for just cap relief and a 2nd rounder?

Honestly? I think that with one 1st rounder you could've got the job done. Sarver hates 1st round picks...

I just remember McHale screwing the Wolves with the Joe Smith fiasco! Sarver must have an orgasm when he remind this McHale/Joe Smith case... Jokes aside, bad move in my opinion.


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## Seuss

> The Suns don't anticipate us ing the obtained trade excep tion this off-season — and it can't be used for signing free agents — so that means they'll have to fill Thomas' void inter nally. Diaw played center two years ago, thriving offensively, and could be used in the same role coming off the bench.
> 
> Marcus Banks and rookie Alando Tucker are rotation op tions as is recently signed for ward Sean Marks, even though he played only 17 minutes last season, none in the postseason. “I'm really comfortable with Sean Marks in that role,” Kerr said. “I think he's a lot better than anybody knows. He'll have a chance to play.”


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0720kurttraded-CR.html

SHOOT ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nffl

Dr. Seuss said:


> http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0720kurttraded-CR.html
> 
> SHOOT ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GOD I HATE SARVER!!!!! WHY IS HE SUCH AN IDIOT? By 2010 we probably won't be an elte team anymore, thus needing that 1st rounder. And 2008 we need to blossum themn for a couple years so when we need him, we use him.

So we lost our best interior defender, and 2 future first rounders for a 2nd rounder (bc we arn't using the TE), just so Sarver can save some god damn money. He's gonna be losing plenty of money when we lose our division to another team when a post gets hurt. God he is a ******* PIECE OF ****.


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## Jammin

Well, Sarvar's plan worked. After trading KT, he only has to pay $429,510 in luxury tax.

**** SARVER HE'S ****ING UP THE SUNS.


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## bircan

Yowzer. I tried to remain calm about this. But we cant use that TE? If this means we dont sign AT LEAST A PJ BROWN, then we are definitely in for a poor performance, more so in play offs.

at 8 mill, kurt was overpaid sure, but only because he was getting wat, 18 mins a game? If he was getting 30 mins a game, like he was in NY, then he would be a solid double double player who will not appear as overpaid.

Congrats to Sarver for saying money, afterall, who wants to pay 16 mill or whatever it was, thats a big "fine" lol. But terrible player wise. Seriously, WHY 2 FIRST ROUNDERS? Like it says in someones sig Dont have a first round pick? buy it from the suns. Dude, why accept a 2nd rounder in return? at least you would have negotiated a first rounder right? right? 2 first rounders for 1 2nd rounder.......... BS!

Keep some first rounders, develop young players for the future, apart from amare and barbosa, we aint got none! diaw is so-so, he was in the same list last year however when he was a 13-18, 6, 5 machine.

lol, i LOVE that avatar Dr Seuss. satan has taken control over poor phoenix!


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## bircan

remember dijon thompson? how he was so happy to be here? guess what? Phx does not really use their 2nd rounders in any meaningful way it seems... so that 2nd rounder we got from seattle, hell, i dont expect that to amount to anything. Altho we are expected to sign DJ strawberry it says in the article linked to above. 3 minutes average in a grand total of 20 games for DJ sounds about right?


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## Seuss

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 I miss Kurt already!!


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## Jizzy

Couldn't Sarver just let KT's contract run out after this season?


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## Dissonance

Jizzy said:


> Couldn't Sarver just let KT's contract run out after this season?


Nah, cuz they would've had to get him off the books by midseason to avoid the 10M or so tax. They probably figured might as well do it now. Seattle also had the TE.

Suns are gonna pay tax, but not nearly as much


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## Preacher

"The sky is falling the sky is falling!"

Seriously guys, we're alright, we still have Atlanta's pick next year and the two picks we traded probably aren't going to be very high anyway. 

Kurt was our best post defender, but did he really stop Duncan? Tim had to work a little harder with Thomas on him, but was still dominant. Maybe if Thomas had shut down Duncan; they wouldn't have dealt him; but since Tim's going to get his anyway, what use is a defensive stopper for him? We might as well save the 16 million and play a guy with more offensive ability at the same time. 

Part of the reason we struggled at times offensively is that Thomas is a one trick pony which allowed Duncan to roam and clog the paint; anybody remember how much harder he had to work when asked to guard Marion or Stoudimire.

We're still an elite team, losing Kurt Thomas doesn't change that; if anything I'd say we're in better shape this year than last; adding Hill, Tucker and Strawberry > Thomas and Jones.


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## nffl

Preacher said:


> "The sky is falling the sky is falling!"
> 
> Seriously guys, we're alright, we still have Atlanta's pick next year and the two picks we traded probably aren't going to be very high anyway.
> 
> Kurt was our best post defender, but did he really stop Duncan? Tim had to work a little harder with Thomas on him, but was still dominant. Maybe if Thomas had shut down Duncan; they wouldn't have dealt him; but since Tim's going to get his anyway, what use is a defensive stopper for him? We might as well save the 16 million and play a guy with more offensive ability at the same time.


Where to start um where to start... Kurt was our best post defender, like you said, but you also understated that. He was by A MILE. Diaw is a little Nancy under the rim and Amare gets into foul trouble faster than someone says "well maybe Pacman Jones is gonna learn something from this and stop being an idiot...," and then Pacman gets thrown in jail.

Yes Timmy was dominant, but that is because he is Timmy. Imagine him in the same series, minus Kurt. Just Amare and JR guarding him. Amare in even MORE foul trouble. Basically Amare would become a nonfactor for the series because he would be on the bench the whole time. JR is not fit to guard Timmy, Dirk yes, but Timmy NO. And Tim Duncan would make Boris Diaw his *****. So Kurt did amazing guarding Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan was unstoppable. Kurt did slow him though, and I can say that no other player on the team can do that.

Kurt wasn't an offensive liability to me, he was pretty money from 12-15 feet, and he got the jumper alot.

Also, KT was an expiring contract. So instead of saving money by trading him one year... we could have kept him and suffered the lux tax for one year and having him (for fears of facing the Spurs again. remember, we should be trying to win a championship, not save money). 
*
After that one year, we'd would be fine, with this year giving us a better chance at getting a NBA ring.*


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## jericho

How about trading Diaw to the Nuggets for Marcus Camby?


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## Preacher

nffl said:


> Where to start um where to start... Kurt was our best post defender, like you said, but you also understated that. He was by A MILE. Diaw is a little Nancy under the rim and Amare gets into foul trouble faster than someone says "well maybe Pacman Jones is gonna learn something from this and stop being an idiot...," and then Pacman gets thrown in jail.
> 
> Yes Timmy was dominant, but that is because he is Timmy. Imagine him in the same series, minus Kurt. Just Amare and JR guarding him. Amare in even MORE foul trouble. Basically Amare would become a nonfactor for the series because he would be on the bench the whole time. JR is not fit to guard Timmy, Dirk yes, but Timmy NO. And Tim Duncan would make Boris Diaw his *****. So Kurt did amazing guarding Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan was unstoppable. Kurt did slow him though, and I can say that no other player on the team can do that.
> 
> Kurt wasn't an offensive liability to me, he was pretty money from 12-15 feet, and he got the jumper alot.
> 
> Also, KT was an expiring contract. So instead of saving money by trading him one year... we could have kept him and suffered the lux tax for one year and having him (for fears of facing the Spurs again. remember, we should be trying to win a championship, not save money).
> *
> After that one year, we'd would be fine, with this year giving us a better chance at getting a NBA ring.*


A couple points to address here, I agree with you that Thomas made Duncan work harder. But again, Duncan gets his no matter what; so what use is keeping a defensive stopper for someone you can't stop?

Also, Kurt was money knocking down fifteen foot jumpers, any idea why he was always open? The Spurs didn't care if he hit those all day; we couldn't get into the lane because Duncan was roaming off Thomas all night, sure he hit some jumpers; but it'd sure be nice if we had someone to make Duncan work a little harder. 

Amare will be a year older and should continue to become a better defender, and it also means we'll probably have to double some more in the paint, which may actually create some more turnovers.

People like to bash Sarver, but doesn't anybody else think it's a little *ridiculous to pay Kurt Thomas 16 million dollars a year in case we play the Spurs?* You might think so if it was your money.......


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## Oldmangrouch

Preacher said:


> People like to bash Sarver, but doesn't anybody else think it's a little *ridiculous to pay Kurt Thomas 16 million dollars a year in case we play the Spurs?* You might think so if it was your money.......


That's a valid point, but looking at it from the outside, it is hard to believe that the team's only option was to give up 2 1st round picks just to be rid of him. Maybe Sarver is greedy.....or maybe he is just too bloody impatient! Was Kerr given adequate time to explore other options? :whoknows:


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## Preacher

Oldmangrouch said:


> That's a valid point, but looking at it from the outside, it is hard to believe that the team's only option was to give up 2 1st round picks just to be rid of him. Maybe Sarver is greedy.....or maybe he is just too bloody impatient! Was Kerr given adequate time to explore other options? :whoknows:


You'd think so......but at the same time not many teams have the room to accept a eight million dollar contract without sending anything in return. Probably fairly difficult to move him.


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## nffl

Preacher said:


> A couple points to address here, I agree with you that Thomas made Duncan work harder. But again, Duncan gets his no matter what; so what use is keeping a defensive stopper for someone you can't stop?
> 
> Also, Kurt was money knocking down fifteen foot jumpers, any idea why he was always open? The Spurs didn't care if he hit those all day; we couldn't get into the lane because Duncan was roaming off Thomas all night, sure he hit some jumpers; but it'd sure be nice if we had someone to make Duncan work a little harder.
> 
> Amare will be a year older and should continue to become a better defender, and it also means we'll probably have to double some more in the paint, which may actually create some more turnovers.
> 
> People like to bash Sarver, but doesn't anybody else think it's a little *ridiculous to pay Kurt Thomas 16 million dollars a year in case we play the Spurs?* You might think so if it was your money.......


I'm fine them leaving him open. You'd rather have Diaw there shooting those jumpers? And remember what I said about our offensive post stars getting in to foul trouble, wo don't want that at all. Amare will be a year older, but he is still a foul magnet.

So yes its 16 mil for one yr. But, that was our fault also for signing Marcus Banks to a big deal. I honestly think that if we had KT then we would be the favorites to be the NBA Champs, and to me that is worth 16 mil (and if you actually get there, you rake in a load of dough too). Colangelos need to come back...


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## Kekai

i had to come on and say i hate this trade i hate giving away players. i hope we get melvin ely or someone good what a dumb trade.


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## Coatesvillain

Well, I guess this means the Jazz have officially become a top three team out West.


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## Dissonance

Coatesvillain said:


> Well, I guess this means the Jazz have officially become a top three team out West.


Sarcasm? 

I mean, Suns barely played Thomas in the regular season and went 61-21. Prolly just have to avoid the Spurs. Suns can beat the Mavs


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## Preacher

Coatesvillain said:


> Well, I guess this means the Jazz have officially become a top three team out West.



Oh yea, losing Kurt Thomas should vault the Jazz over Phoenix......:lol:


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## Preacher

nffl said:


> I'm fine them leaving him open. You'd rather have Diaw there shooting those jumpers? And remember what I said about our offensive post stars getting in to foul trouble, wo don't want that at all. Amare will be a year older, but he is still a foul magnet.
> 
> So yes its 16 mil for one yr. But, that was our fault also for signing Marcus Banks to a big deal. I honestly think that if we had KT then we would be the favorites to be the NBA Champs, and to me that is worth 16 mil (and if you actually get there, you rake in a load of dough too). Colangelos need to come back...


Marcus Banks is a pretty decent player, lets not judge him off of one season. And yes I'd rather have Diaw offensively than Thomas, he helps open up the floor. 

The more I think about it, the more crazy it is to expect an owner to pay Thomas 16 million dollars in case we play the Spurs. I understand he's our best post defender, but having him doesn't guarantee a championship. Again you'd probably feel differant if we were talking about your money.


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## silverpaw1786

jericho said:


> How about trading Diaw to the Nuggets for Marcus Camby?


Ummm... does that trade make any sense from the Nuggets' perspective? They have plenty of scoring, why would they trade defense for more? 

Plus Diaw being a Base Year Compensation player leads to this trade not working.


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## nffl

Preacher said:


> Marcus Banks is a pretty decent player, lets not judge him off of one season. And yes I'd rather have Diaw offensively than Thomas, he helps open up the floor.


Banks is decent. But D'antoni has a tough rotation to break. And one season? He was trash. I do believe he will one day be a good consistant player, maybe in a couple years, but that is after we waste 10 million on him for sitting on the bench.

And I never said that KT was a better offensive player than Diaw. That's obvious. I meant Kurt's D outweighs Diaw's offense (for last year at least). Kurt was a great defender and a decent offensive player, who was not as slow as people said so I never considered him as an offensive liability. Diaw is not a good defender, and at this point, a confused offensive player with miles of potential.

16 million is giving up alot, yes, but so is giving up every player who could have helped us for some money (JR, KT, Iguodala/Deng, Spanish Chocolate, Marcus Banks/Rajon Rondo, Nate Robinson and Q (which gave us KT). This team is not set for the next 5 years. We need those guys, but it is Sarver who is not willing to pay money to players that will help us, and wasting it on those who don't


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## Preacher

nffl said:


> Banks is decent. But D'antoni has a tough rotation to break. And one season? He was trash. I do believe he will one day be a good consistant player, maybe in a couple years, but that is after we waste 10 million on him for sitting on the bench.
> 
> And I never said that KT was a better offensive player than Diaw. That's obvious. I meant Kurt's D outweighs Diaw's offense (for last year at least). Kurt was a great defender and a decent offensive player, who was not as slow as people said so I never considered him as an offensive liability. Diaw is not a good defender, and at this point, a confused offensive player with miles of potential.
> 
> 16 million is giving up alot, yes, but so is giving up every player who could have helped us for some money (JR, KT, Iguodala/Deng, Spanish Chocolate, Marcus Banks/Rajon Rondo, Nate Robinson and Q (which gave us KT). This team is not set for the next 5 years. We need those guys, but it is Sarver who is not willing to pay money to players that will help us, and wasting it on those who don't


Most of those players you named really aren't that good. Do you really want Nate Robinson on this team, or how about Q the guy was a chucker and not much else, Sergio, Rondo and JR are nothing more than role players also.

Here is the point that you're missing, the only way we can afford to keep Marion, Nash, Amare, Barbosa, Raja and Diaw; is too cut costs elsewhere. Sarver doesn't have unlimited pockets, so either we get rid of a core player; or we sell some draft picks and Kurt Thomas. I vote for the latter. 

I also think you're understating how much money 16 million dollars is; 16,000,000 is far too much for a situational player. I can't blame Sarver and Kerr one bit for cutting him loose. 

I do agree with you on Deng though, that was a lot of value to sell off.


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## Zuca

With this move and after seeing Kerr talking, we may call Sean Marks the new "Duncan Stopper"...


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## Coatesvillain

Dissonance19 said:


> Sarcasm?
> 
> I mean, Suns barely played Thomas in the regular season and went 61-21. Prolly just have to avoid the Spurs. Suns can beat the Mavs


It's not really the Kurt Thomas move, I had the Jazz over Phoenix regardless. This is like the cherry on-top. In hindsight, I don't think Phoenix could have beat the Jazz in a series last year.

Giving up draft picks for nothing, and players when you're not that deep in the first place isn't a good way to win it all.


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## BlakeJesus

Coatesvillain said:


> It's not really the Kurt Thomas move, I had the Jazz over Phoenix regardless. This is like the cherry on-top. In hindsight, I don't think Phoenix could have beat the Jazz in a series last year.
> 
> Giving up draft picks for nothing, and players when you're not that deep in the first place isn't a good way to win it all.


Though there's obvious logic in your statement, but keeping Marion is more important than two late 1st rounders and a backup on an expiring contract.


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## Preacher

Coatesvillain said:


> It's not really the Kurt Thomas move, I had the Jazz over Phoenix regardless. This is like the cherry on-top. In hindsight, I don't think Phoenix could have beat the Jazz in a series last year.
> 
> Giving up draft picks for nothing, and players when you're not that deep in the first place isn't a good way to win it all.


Phoenix is a better team than Utah, especially when you add in Grant Hill. I like what the Jazz have done but they're not a better team than the Suns with or without Kurt Thomas.


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## nffl

Preacher said:


> Most of those players you named really aren't that good. Do you really want Nate Robinson on this team, or how about Q the guy was a chucker and not much else, Sergio, Rondo and JR are nothing more than role players also.
> 
> Here is the point that you're missing, the only way we can afford to keep Marion, Nash, Amare, Barbosa, Raja and Diaw; is too cut costs elsewhere. Sarver doesn't have unlimited pockets, so either we get rid of a core player; or we sell some draft picks and Kurt Thomas. I vote for the latter.
> 
> I also think you're understating how much money 16 million dollars is; 16,000,000 is far too much for a situational player. I can't blame Sarver and Kerr one bit for cutting him loose.
> 
> I do agree with you on Deng though, that was a lot of value to sell off.


I am actually agreeing with you more and more about the 16 mil, it's just that this isn't the first time that Sarver has sold good players. This situation is fine (except for 2 damn 1sts. I mean come one, one would do, even if it means no 2nd rounder). And why did they want the 8 mil trade exception if we aren't gonna use it? We should have gotten money we could actually use and not just a TE if we knew it was to waste.

But for Deng, we were going to take Ig there, but we didn't think he'd be there. Marcus Williams and Rajon Rondo will be allstars, mark my words. And then Nate, Q, Sergio, and JR. Not much more than role players? Exactly. Think how the Heat won their ring, or how the Spurs won this year. With plenty of role players. I am not saying all of them will be stars, I am saying that all of them are efficient in our system and could help us reach closer to a ring.

Nate we don't need though because we got Blur.



Coatesvillain said:


> It's not really the Kurt Thomas move, I had the Jazz over Phoenix regardless. This is like the cherry on-top. In hindsight, I don't think Phoenix could have beat the Jazz in a series last year.
> 
> Giving up draft picks for nothing, and players when you're not that deep in the first place isn't a good way to win it all.


Wow. Um, honestly I have the Jazz at at 5. Don't sleep on the Rockets. New offensive minded coach who coached Bonzi a few years ago (so Bonzi is almost an addition this year). Then add new starting PF Luis Scola, Mike James (and I'm not saying 20 ppg Mike James is showing up, but still good), and Aaron Brooks. And you got a contender. That should be a great series next year. Rockets-Jazz.


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## Preacher

nffl said:


> I am actually agreeing with you more and more about the 16 mil, it's just that this isn't the first time that Sarver has sold good players. This situation is fine (except for 2 damn 1sts. I mean come one, one would do, even if it means no 2nd rounder). And why did they want the 8 mil trade exception if we aren't gonna use it? We should have gotten money we could actually use and not just a TE if we knew it was to waste.
> 
> But for Deng, we were going to take Ig there, but we didn't think he'd be there. Marcus Williams and Rajon Rondo will be allstars, mark my words. And then Nate, Q, Sergio, and JR. Not much more than role players? Exactly. Think how the Heat won their ring, or how the Spurs won this year. With plenty of role players. I am not saying all of them will be stars, I am saying that all of them are efficient in our system and could help us reach closer to a ring.
> 
> Nate we don't need though because we got Blur.


They didn't want Marcus Williams; I think it had to do a lot with character issues. Rondo is a good defender but his offense is lacking, not sure how he'd fit in here, Nate is a punk who instigates fights and shoots a very low percentage (which doesn't stop him from shooting), Q and JR are alright, but wouldn't have put us over the top IMO.


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## Dissonance

All that were picked and traded were only picked, because that is what the other team wanted. Only 1 of those players they might've taken because they had him on their board.. Which was Rudy Fernandez. Other that, none. Not Nate, Marcus Williams (they didn't think he could run an uptempo O), or Rondo (can't shoot good enough). They didn't like any of them. And they traded out because they wanted others who went before (besides Igoudala which they agreed to the trade beforehand) and/or Isiah held Kurt Thomas hostage for that #1.


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## narrator

So I can sorta understand trading Thomas but what I don't get is trading the two first round picks for a second rounder. I don't understand that at all, mainly because draft picks have a set value. And if Sarver was cheap, he'd load up on draft picks. Does that make sense?

Anyway, this was the dumbest trade I've seen in a while.


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## Dissonance

narrator said:


> So I can sorta understand trading Thomas but what I don't get is trading the two first round picks for a second rounder. I don't understand that at all, mainly because draft picks have a set value. And if Sarver was cheap, he'd load up on draft picks. Does that make sense?
> 
> Anyway, this was the dumbest trade I've seen in a while.



They probably had to put the picks in for them to take on Thomas's contract. They wanted to get rid of it, Seattle needed a reason to do it.


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## BlakeJesus

narrator said:


> So I can sorta understand trading Thomas but what I don't get is trading the two first round picks for a second rounder. I don't understand that at all, mainly because draft picks have a set value. And if Sarver was cheap, he'd load up on draft picks. Does that make sense?
> 
> Anyway, this was the dumbest trade I've seen in a while.


You're making it seem like Seattle was just dieing to take on Kurt Thomas's contract. I highly doubt that was the case, the 1st rounders were thrown into the mix so the deal would actually be accepted.

Plus I think a LOT of you are overreacting to the 2 1st rounders, what are they going to be...20-30th overall? I mean sure that's obviously still highly useful but most of you are acting like the Suns gave up the number one and two overall just to unload Thomas.

The Suns already have ATLs pick next year, so they're guaranteed at least a lottery pick next year...they probably would have sold off the late first rounder anyways like they did this year with Sergio.

To all of you ripping on this trade, let me put it like this. Would you rather have Marion, or Kurt Thomas and two late first round picks? That's basically what it all came down to. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.


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## nffl

GregOden said:


> The Suns already have ATLs pick next year, so they're guaranteed at least a lottery pick next year...they probably would have sold off the late first rounder anyways like they did this year with Sergio.


Wrong Spanish guy. Sergio was 2 years ago, this year was Rudy Fernandez.

But still, one 1st, and minus their second, and the trade should have gone through. Kurt's contract wasn't too awful for the Sonics to take on because I am pretty sure the Sonics have plenty of cap room right now (plus it's an *expiring contract*), but correct me if I am wrong.


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## Preacher

nffl said:


> Wrong Spanish guy. Sergio was 2 years ago, this year was Rudy Fernandez.
> 
> But still, one 1st, and minus their second, and the trade should have gone through. Kurt's contract wasn't too awful for the Sonics to take on because I am pretty sure the Sonics have plenty of cap room right now (plus it's an *expiring contract*), but correct me if I am wrong.


I'd be suprised if Phoenix didn't lead with the offer of one pick and Thomas, probably wasn't good enough so they threw in another one.

We still have Atlanta's pick next year.


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## BlakeJesus

nffl said:


> Wrong Spanish guy. Sergio was 2 years ago, this year was Rudy Fernandez.
> 
> But still, one 1st, and minus their second, and the trade should have gone through. Kurt's contract wasn't too awful for the Sonics to take on because I am pretty sure the Sonics have plenty of cap room right now (plus it's an *expiring contract*), but correct me if I am wrong.


You have to assume they did try that, if our wee minds on the message board can find the obvious logic in the idea you have to assume it more than likely crossed the professionals mind once or twice.

I really don't have a problem with them giving up the two late first rounders to be honest, chances are the players they would have gotten wouldnt have seen much of the court anyways. 

They have ATLs pick and that is more than enough. If ATL really bombs it, look out for OJ Mayo to help Pheonix win a championship.


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## Chalie Boy

Dumb trade...homers don't even try to rationalize it...its just a dumb trade


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## Preacher

Chalie Boy said:


> Dumb trade...homers don't even try to rationalize it...its just a dumb trade


Says the articulate and well thought out response.....hard to argue with logic as sound as "Dumb trade....homers don't even try to rationalize it."


sigh.....


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## Kekai

didnt amare request kt if i remember right? i wonder how amare felt about the trade


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## BlakeJesus

Chalie Boy said:


> Dumb trade...homers don't even try to rationalize it...its just a dumb trade


I'm not a Suns fan, I actually love watching the Spurs dominate the Suns because I secretly hate Steve Nash because I'm a Jason Kidd homer.

Sorry for seeing the logic in wanting to keep Marion over Kurt Thomas and two late first rounders.


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## Sunsfan81

What a fraud. He doesn't really care about winning. :curse: :upset: 
Suns are screwed, no championship next year either.


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## Sunsfan81

Zuca said:


> With this move and after seeing Kerr talking, we may call Sean Marks the new "Duncan Stopper"...


Tim Duncan meet your master!!


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## Zei_Zao_LS

Sunsfan81 said:


> Tim Duncan meet your master!!


That's rather intimidating, I gotta say...


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