# Deng Ultimatum?



## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-dengbulls072108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Interesting if true. Probably a bargaining ploy, but do you call the bluff? These guys who are so sensitive they blame their poor play on having a contact on their minds is pretty bad. "Oh, I can't have this on my mind during the season boo-hoo". Sad.....

Well with Reinsdork taking over negotiations personally there is nothing to worry about. :clap:

Bye Deng....


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I think we sign Deng, but then I would not be shocked if he was not signed.

With JR in the talks and with no agreement yet, it makes me wonder if we will talk him into staying with us or not.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> I think we sign Deng, but then I would not be shocked if he was not signed.
> 
> With JR in the talks and with no agreement yet, it makes me wonder if we will talk him into staying with us or not.


I think BG and Deng still have inflated opinions of what they're worth, and that's not helping anything.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Who cares about Deng, we finally got a book forum! Best day of my life! :yay:

If you like reading you should come here


:biggrin:


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## lorgg (Dec 8, 2003)

Hah, The Bulls have become Clippers central. JR's hardline approach even during the championship years and reluctance to go into Luxury in one of THE biggest basketball markets is pathetic.

Why play in Chicago? Not a contender, crap weather half the year, old school ownership treating players like a number. 

I'd sign with Miami, San Ant, Dallas, Golden State, Denver, Portland, NY, Charlotte, LA, LA....just based on geography alone.

The league perception amongst players is that the Bulls are **** management/ownership to play for. The metality is that they destroyed the dynasty is still going strong. 

The Bulls were on the verge as EC titlists and let money destroy the momentum of this team last year. With the contracts being signed by lesser players it serves the Bulls right.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

If Deng wants to be a little don't avoid the filter, please like that, I say bench him and play Thabo or Noc at the SF. I'm 100% serious too. Play guys who are going to be with the team past this season and develop them. Screw Deng. Whiny little pansy. I always knew drafting Dookies was a mistake anyway. Jay Williams = moron who ruined his career and wasted a #2 draft pick. Duchump = a worthless POS that would rather party and miss team functions. Deng = over-rated, soft, pansy that's always hurt. Brand = decent but undersized and wouldn't resign anyway (according to rumors).


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## Cager (Jun 13, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> If Deng wants to be a little biatch like that, I say bench him and play Thabo or Noc at the SF. I'm 100% serious too. Play guys who are going to be with the team past this season and develop them. Screw Deng. Whiny little pansy. I always knew drafting Dookies was a mistake anyway. Jay Williams = moron who ruined his career and wasted a #2 draft pick. Duchump = a worthless POS that would rather party and miss team functions. Deng = over-rated, soft, pansy that's always hurt. Brand = decent but undersized and wouldn't resign anyway (according to rumors).


Does anyone really know what Deng is asking for ? Is it true the Bulls are not even offering the $57.5 ? It's great being a Bulls fan but let's face it; the Bulls are cheap. They have refused to go over the luxury cap so we end up with this instead of Pau Gasol. The Bulls before and after MJ are a crappy organization. Deng is certainly worth $60 over 5 years. I applaud Deng for telling the Bulls it is time to step up and stop the endless "negotiations". The Bulls will be really screwed if they lose both Deng and Gordon for nothing next year.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> I always knew drafting Dookies was a mistake anyway.



let me guess....they rejected your college entry application? they cut you as a walk-on? coach k wouldn't let you be a ballboy? c'mon....fess up....:lol:


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Cool it.



> this is a lot more about Deng playing for England than people think. If Deng got hurt with no contract, he would be totally screwed. He is better off signing the QO before he starts play than going unprotected. Obviously the safest choice would be not to play, but it would seem that Deng is dead set on playing for England.


Coldfish is dead on here.

Plus Sham made a good point:



> Things don't get serious until you have a deadline. Deng just created one.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

GB said:


> Cool it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The voice of reason.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Gordon should follow suit, and make the same deadline.

I like what these two guys are doing. Someone needs to force this team to operate like the rest of the league...the good teams. Why are fans turning on Deng/Gordon? People should direct their anger at the Clipper esque ownership.

We haven't even made an offer to Deng/Gordon yet. Those guys have every right to be angry.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

BG7 said:


> Why are fans turning on Deng/Gordon?


I think because while MJ and Pip had a 'right' to fight with management...we don't see these two as having the same status. Who are they to make demands.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Man, Paxson is ****ing up.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Ruff Draft said:


> Man, Paxson is ****ing up.


Paxson is no longer doing the negotiations.

Its all Reinsdorf.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

GB said:


> Paxson is no longer doing the negotiations.
> 
> Its all Reinsdorf.


rinse & repeat.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Why are the bulls the laughing stock of the NBA? 

How the hell did we overtake the Knicks as home of the Basketball Retarded! 

We need new ownership, I have always said that the only reason we are even remembered as a franchise is because we got lucky enough to have Portland draft Bowie ahead of us. No doubt in my mind that if Bowie was still on the board we would have taken him ahead of Jordan.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> No doubt in my mind that if Bowie was still on the board we would have taken him ahead of Jordan.


There were about 24 teams that would have done the same.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If the bulls let deng and gordon walk and lose them for nothing, (and trading for an inferior player is not my cup of tea, so to me that's losing them for nothing), or they try to "Ben Wallace" them, the way they did Tyson Chandler, I will absolutely and unequivocally drop my support for them. And I won't think twice.


Hmm.....better start evaluating other teams now. If they think their found money of drafting Derrick rose is enough to keep me on the hook for another 2 seasons, they are sadly mistaken.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

More points to remember:

* They are not the last RFA's left on the market, neither are they (arguably) the best RFA's left on the market.

* This is classic Reinsdorf: "Bring me an offer sheet." Nothing new here.

* Hinrich didn't sign his offer sheet until right at the deadline...

* Hinrich had the good sense not to have a down year before he signed his extension. He had it afterward.

* Dengs agent has just one other high profile client: Kevin Martin


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> the two sides are headed into the sixth month of negotiations and still not close to an agreement.
> 
> When faced with these situations in the past, the Bulls would make an offer and tell the player if he thinks he's worth more, go out and collect an offer sheet from another team. The cap room around the NBA is pretty much gone this summer, so no offer sheet is forthcoming. But that doesn't necessarily mean the Bulls have the upper hand in negotiations.
> 
> ...


http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=222216


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Why are the bulls the laughing stock of the NBA?


where's that printed and documented? is there a link? what events led to this startling and conclusive revelation? oh wait....it's your opinion.......eace:



> How the hell did we overtake the Knicks as home of the Basketball Retarded!


which retard would you be referring to? who's the equivalent of randolph, marbury, curry, crawford and lil'nate?



> We need new ownership, I have always said that the only reason we are even remembered as a franchise is because we got lucky enough to have Portland draft Bowie ahead of us. No doubt in my mind that if Bowie was still on the board we would have taken him ahead of Jordan.


that's funny; so the bulls fans should be thanking their "lucky" stars they got lucky and got jordan. i suppose the cavs should be doing the same, as well as orlando and any other team that has been bestowed a "superstar", huh?

and since there's "no doubt in my mind", could you be as certain that bowie wouldn't have been a healty, 12-14 year all-star and HOF center for the bulls and jordan get lost in the portland competition for playing time with the established clyde drexler? the possiblities are endless.....

since *nobody's* signed *anybody*, remember IT'S SUMMER TIME........


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

This was the part I liked best



> Deng will have some quality options if he decides to sign the one-year qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent next summer. How does joining a Portland starting lineup of Greg Oden, LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy and Jerryd Bayless sound?
> 
> The Blazers are a dangerous opponent for the Bulls right now, because they have an opening for Deng on the floor and will have cap room next year when Raef LaFrentz and Steve Francis come off the books.



It will be interesting to see what Kevin Pritchard does. 


Anyhoo, good luck this coming season


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Ruff Draft said:


> rinse & repeat.


No dude, literally Reinsdorf has dismissed Paxson from the negotiations and is handling them directly.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

GB said:


> I think because while MJ and Pip had a 'right' to fight with management...we don't see these two as having the same status. Who are they to make demands.


Every player has the "right" to fight for the contract they want


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> No dude, literally Reinsdorf has *dismissed* Paxson from the negotiations and is handling them directly.


dude, please refer me to the headline that stated that B...verbiage; literally.....


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

BULLHITTER said:


> dude, please refer me to the headline that stated that B...verbiage; literally.....


Google rules. Dude.



> Not totally sure yet how to interpret this one, but sources say that Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf is personally handling contract negotiations with Deng and his new agent (Jason Levien) after Reinsdorf informed Bulls GM John Paxson that he wanted to directly negotiate with the Deng camp along with Bulls director of player personnel Gar Forman.


http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=3485040


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Why does he treat his GM so?

Does he do Kenny Williams this way?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

GB said:


> Why does he treat his GM so?
> 
> Does he do Kenny Williams this way?



I've never seen anything like this with Kenny that I can recall.

So, how long until there's a difficult contract negotiation down the line will it take the players agent to say "Okay, John, we're only going to talk to Jerry going forward, since you can't get it done." I can't imagine this helps Paxson's leverage as a negotiator.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Not totally sure yet how to interpret this one, but sources say that Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf is personally handling contract negotiations with Deng and his new agent (Jason Levien) after Reinsdorf informed Bulls GM John Paxson that he wanted to directly negotiate with the Deng camp along with Bulls director of player personnel Gar Forman.


maybe i don't read so well, dude, where's the "dismissed" part?

"personally handling"?

directly negotiate?

"informed bulls GM"

i can't see where the semantics of either imply, infer or suggest that reinsdorf "dismissed" anybody.

a job in the media awaits you, i'd say......eace:


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

GB said:


> http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=222216


Jerryd Bayless
Brandon Roy
*Luol Deng*
LaMarcus Aldridge
Greg Oden

Bench: Rudy Fernandez and whatever we have left of Blake, Webster, Outlaw, Frye, Diogu and Joel coming off the bench.

I wouldn't complain as I purchased my tickets for the games.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Pax please don’t disappoint me...waste Deng, he is not worth more than 
$9M/year! 

Sign and trade his greedy *** for a mid first round draft pick!
Sign and trade his greedy *** for a mid first round draft pick!
Sign and trade his greedy *** for a mid first round draft pick!
Sign and trade his greedy *** for a mid first round draft pick!
Sign and trade his greedy *** for a mid first round draft pick!
Sign and trade his greedy *** for a mid first round draft pick!
Sign and trade his greedy *** for a mid first round draft pick!
Sign and trade his greedy *** for a mid first round draft pick!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

BULLHITTER said:


> maybe i don't read so well, dude, where's the "dismissed" part?
> 
> "personally handling"?
> 
> ...



Seriously? You're in charge of the purchasing department for Company X and currently negotiating a contract with Company Y to purchase widgets. Your boss, the president of Company X, comes in and says from here on forward he wanted to "personally handle" this work by "directly negotiating" with with Company Y himself. This is not you being "dismissed" from the negotiations?

If you can't see this, I can't help you.


EDIT: Dude.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

I don't really see what the big deal is, big whoop if we lose Deng, we can just sign someone else then, that's probably 10x better.

I know we have a glut of guard, but what if consolidated something like Kirk, Hughes, and gooden for AI. I hear he's on the block.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

People who keep talking Deng down have very short memories, I think.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Same for people who talk Gordon down.

We need to bring both of these guys back. Gordon is the most responsible for our return to the playoffs. Hinrich/Nocioni are more responsible than Deng for our playoffs (they were more important in 2 out of the 3 years), but I think Deng clearly made himself the #2 or 1B guy on the team in 2006-2007, and I don't see Hinrich/Nocioni ever getting that back from him.

Who are we going to sign? We don't have capspace. We could have some in 2010, and go after Lebron or Joe Johnson to play small forward. I think I would rather have Deng than Joe Johnson, and Lebron is going to be hard to get. And if we sign Gordon/Deng, get Thabo/Thomas sorted out with extensions next summer, and get rid of Kirk, we should be able to make a run at a max player regardless in 2010. 

It is sad that we might lose our two best players this summer, and if not this summer, we might have both guys on Qualifying offers, getting ready to bolt somewhere else (I would think Deng to Portland and Gordon to Miami at this point). 

http://www.reinsdork.com/


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

OT (well, kind of): Anybody browse the Blazers board at all? There's some ridiculous undervaluing of Deng going on over there.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

BG7 said:


> Same for people who talk Gordon down.
> 
> We need to bring both of these guys back. Gordon is the most responsible for our return to the playoffs. Hinrich/Nocioni are more responsible than Deng for our playoffs (they were more important in 2 out of the 3 years), but I think Deng clearly made himself the #2 or 1B guy on the team in 2006-2007, and I don't see Hinrich/Nocioni ever getting that back from him.
> 
> ...


Whatever you say, Mr. Gordon's Agent.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

bullybullz said:


> Whatever you say, Mr. Gordon's Agent.


Priceless!


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

I had deng rated as the 5th best SF in the league 2 years ago, and rising. How he fell so far off the map is amazing to me.

IMHO, he'll return to that spot or maybe even rise a spot or two this year.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> I had deng rated as the 5th best SF in the league 2 years ago, and rising. How he fell so far off the map is amazing to me.
> 
> IMHO, he'll return to that spot or maybe even rise a spot or two this year.


With all respect to your feelings, I am not sure he ever will. 

NBA “gang” did figure out who he is and shot him down. He has not responded to these challenges, not because he did not want that, but because he couldn’t.

As you may recall, in the past he never responded to JS challenges either, during pre-daft bonanza. And we all thought that he just a cool guy…but I am afraid that we were wrong. 

It so obvious now that Deng is not a fighter or tough competitor and you can not teach these things. By adding a very limited basketball skills, brings Deng right to mediocrity level, were probably he belongs ...max 9M/year (for the next seven years only)
Please don't share my thoughts with his cheapness -JR


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Bulls96 said:


> With all respect to your feelings, I am not sure he ever will.
> 
> NBA “gang” did figure out who he is and shot him down. He has not responded to these challenges, not because he did not want that, but because he couldn’t.
> 
> ...


I disagree with part of this. I think Deng struggled a lot during the season because of the achilles problem. I think Gordon struggled at the beginning of the season because of his ankle injury as well as Skiles having not abandoning the broken strategy of Gordon being a corner shooting guard running off corner screens.

(This is hard to blame Skiles for. Gordon was drilling like crazy to be super effective in that type of role, but when the season came, his moves were difficult to do against actual competition. I expect him to account for that this summer in his workouts, so he might be able to show off these moves next season expanding his offensive repertoire further).

I don't think you can call Deng not a tough competitor or fighter. He is a workout warrior and always gives a good effort on the court. He isn't a #1 man, which is okay. Gordon will be the #1 scoring option, and Rose will be the #2 scoring option and #1 playmaking option. So putting Deng at the #3 scoring and playmaking option I think he will be able to thrive in that role.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

BG7 said:


> ...so putting Deng at the #3 scoring and playmaking option I think he will be able to thrive in that role.QUOTE]
> 
> I agree and not at team’s future expense. His $70M demand associated more with option #1 or #2 and definitely not with # 3.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

deng will get his money , eventually if not from the bulls then some1 else.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> deng will get his money , eventually if not from the bulls then some1 else.



I hope he will and save our team’s salary cap and damage competitors.

It is perfectly fine with me, to sign and trade his greedy *** for the future first round draft pick, before he leaves for nothing ( I wanted him to be traded last season together with Kirk for something valuable) .


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> I had deng rated as the 5th best SF in the league 2 years ago, and rising. How he fell so far off the map is amazing to me.
> 
> IMHO, he'll return to that spot or maybe even rise a spot or two this year.


Top 5? Really? Well there is your problem, so did John Paxon now that Deng wants to be paid like an Elite SF everyone is all on the trade Deng bandwagon.

I can name about 10 better SF's than Deng even 2 years ago.


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## Reignman (Feb 15, 2005)

> Jerryd Bayless
> Brandon Roy
> Luol Deng
> LaMarcus Aldridge
> ...


Portland a very nice young core to develop for the next few years already, even without Luol. But they will face the same issue Chicago had recently: you can't pay everyone top dollars when they're up for extensions. So even if they have cap space next summer, they might not spend it, afraid to lose their own players for tax reasons in upcoming summers.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Reignman said:


> Portland a very nice young core to develop for the next few years already, even without Luol. But they will face the same issue Chicago had recently: you can't pay everyone top dollars when they're up for extensions. So even if they have cap space next summer, they might not spend it, afraid to lose their own players for tax reasons in upcoming summers.


Yes they can pay every single one of their players top dollar. Paul Allen has already come out and said he will happily go into the luxury tax if the Blazers are competing for a title. I would assume in a few years Portland will be in the discussion of teams that could compete.

Portland has a plan. The plan is to have cap space available next summer to either sign a FA or make a trade taking back more money than they are sending out. Paul Allen is anything but a cheap owner, and will spend to win. Don't forget, for awhile Portland had the highest payroll in the league. 

So Portland won't face the same issue Chicago had recently because our owner will spend money. That is the only reason Chicago didn't spend the money....not because they couldn't 


Good luck this season


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

King Joseus said:


> People who keep talking Deng down have very short memories, I think.


Two years ago we were discussing Deng's potential to be elite, yes, but now, we are merely discussing his potential to get over his injuries and be healthy again.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Only a few days left.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

It always amazes me , how fans who know full well the bulls are among the wealthiest teams in all of pro sports can support their cheapness.

I am not talking about aversion to risks, this is cheapness, they can talk up a player(s) as part of a new culture , their ability and their character ....but when its time to pay them , there is a pause and basically saying without saying these guys aren't good enough, through extremely drawn out contract negotiations and trade rumors where the team cant pull the trigger for whatever reason.

it happened 4-5 years ago and its happening today , I look and see not much of a future for the bulls players currently on the roster .

kirk , who was never really a point guard in the 1st place imo more of a combo guy, is basically on the block or at least strongly percieved that way with the drafting of Rose and his down year.

Ben and Luol are RFA's who are in drawn out negotiations, i'm doubtful of a plesant outcome in both cases , especially pessimistic in gordon's situation since he doesn't have a real position.

Tyrus ...i have a hard time seeing him staying as a bull unless he signs to a real discount and starts to play very well very soon.

Noah...based on his play and potential , I think he could be a longtime bull...but he gets into too many headaches, at this point, but he is young so that can of course change.


Rose is a guy whom i see as really good in time but not Paul and deron williams good by the end of his contract, if he becomes a good #2 guy but wants the max i dont see the bulls retaining him .If he becomes the full hardcore superstar some are predicting, it becomes a non-issue, hopefully.

and if/when that happens are people going to turn on him like Gordon, Deng and Hinrich, when all 3 are pretty much what they have been drafted to be . Hinrich a decent 2 way guard who can play both spots. Deng= Tayshaun Prince more or less another 2 way player who is good but not great, Gordon excellent shooter/scorer, they knew how big he was when they drafted him and had the intention of putting him alongside hinrich, he is a 20 point a game scorer who is point guard sized but is a 2 guard...i dont know what else was expected.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> It always amazes me , how fans who know full well the bulls are among the wealthiest teams in all of pro sports can support their cheapness.
> 
> I am not talking about aversion to risks, this is cheapness, they can talk up a player(s) as part of a new culture , their ability and their character ....but when its time to pay them , there is a pause and basically saying without saying these guys aren't good enough, through extremely drawn out contract negotiations and trade rumors where the team cant pull the trigger for whatever reason.
> 
> ...


This is a very good post, and echo's my sentiment on the subject that being a lottery bound team with frugal ownership being a poor mix of cultures at contract time.

The one thing I would add is how long will it be before we begin to hear that these negotiations are becoming a distraction, and are hindering forward progress. I hope it does not happen again, but that has also been part of the recent history of this regime.

There is always a excuse, which will be quantified by some as necessary and in good faith. Contrast this style of negotiating with Jerry Angelo's track record of signing his guys, frankly as a fan I find it frustrating.


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## RageofDaBulls (Feb 2, 2007)

I Really do believe Pax shoot himself in the foot last year by talking these guys up in the Kobe and Gasol trades.

This time last year BG,LD KH were near untouchable even in the Kobe trade,but now its time to pay the piper and they have become very Avg and not worth so and so amount..

well WTF is it.are they worth so much its better to keep them and pass on KG,Kobe,Gasol Ect.or are they so Avg that they aren't worth signing to more 8-9mil a year?


"What a tangled web we weave,when we conspire to deceive"... **** Pax,and **** JR....


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## Case (Dec 17, 2007)

RageofDaBulls said:


> well WTF is it.are they worth so much its better to keep them and pass on KG,Kobe,Gasol Ect.or are they so Avg that they aren't worth signing to more 8-9mil a year?
> 
> 
> "What a tangled web we weave,when we conspire to deceive"... **** Pax,and **** JR....


Except it wasn't Pax who passed the trades for Kobe and KG; it was L.A. and Minnesota. Offers were made (involving the "core"), and were rejected.

Once again (I feel like a broken record), it takes multiple parties to make a trade. If the other team says "no," it's "no" - regardless of how you as a fan feel.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

RageofDaBulls said:


> I Really do believe Pax shoot himself in the foot last year by talking these guys up in the Kobe and Gasol trades.
> 
> This time last year BG,LD KH were near untouchable even in the Kobe trade,but now its time to pay the piper and they have become very Avg and not worth so and so amount..
> 
> ...


How do you even know gordon, Deng, and hinrich were "untouchable"??


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I wonder if Gordon has set the same ultimatum as Deng, since Gordon wants to play for Great Britain too. Although, from the interview Gordon did on Friday, if he has the same ultimatum, it's just a soft ultimatum. 

But Deng is going to be disappointed in the Bulls if they don't get Gordon done soon as well, since he wants Gordon over there with him this summer.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

liekomgj4ck said:


> How do you even know gordon, Deng, and hinrich were "untouchable"??


This one's tough.

I believe Paxson didn't want to trade Gordon at all, or Deng. Hinrich was never even close to untouchable on the Bulls side.

But Kobe wanted Hinrich and Deng here. 

The Lakers tried getting some package including Gordon/Deng and then Hinrich/Gordon, and then I believe the Bulls and Lakers settled on a deal of Kobe for Hinrich/Deng as the principle, and then Kobe vetoed it, thus Paxson saying, there was never any deal to be done, since Kobe never wanted to really come to the Bulls.

And making Hinrich/Gordon/Deng untouchable in a Gasol trade is just smart GM'n. What went wrong here, was bad ownership, because the Grizzlies wanted to trade him to the Bulls (out of conference), but Jerry Reinsdork wouldn't sign and trade P.J. Brown for Gasol, because it would have put us in the luxury tax.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

//…when all 3 are pretty much what they have been drafted to be..//

That is correct, with almost zero of improvements. Deng and Ben
“price tags” are not more than $45M/five years, based upon present
market values and Bulls needs. 

However, I also don’t like his cheapness (JR) and I believe that an extra
expenses required in order to keep player we want to trade, until
something decent and suitable appears on horizon. 

A second biggest problem, imo, is Pax himself. He is absolutely not capable to manage team’s assets or communicate/ negotiate with other GM.


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## Shermitt (Nov 10, 2003)

Bulls96 said:


> //…when all 3 are pretty much what they have been drafted to be..//
> 
> That is correct, with almost zero of improvements. Deng and Ben
> “price tags” are not more than $45M/five years, based upon present
> ...


That's true, Pax might not be the most competent or the daring GM to pull the trigger when the time is right. However, Reinsdorf, who doesn't know jack about the NBA in's and out's, always interferes with what Pax wants to do. Just look at the Del ***** hiring when we could have hired D'antoni or Collins. What about a month ago when the momentum for a Kirk Hinrich to GS trade was heating up where they were going to send Al Harrington in return and Reinsdorf squash the trade because he admires Hinrich because of his work ethic. What about the Gasol trade? Pax had it lined up but then Reinsdorf squashed it because he didn't want to incur the luxury tax? Reinsdorf doesn't know basketball but tries to be a hands on owner. I just wish that he would solely go focus on bothering Kenny Williams in a sport that he's more familiar with than to go bother Pax. Pax is a bright guy, but his hands are often tied.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Bulls96 said:


> //…when all 3 are pretty much what they have been drafted to be..//
> 
> That is correct, with almost zero of improvements. Deng and Ben
> “price tags” are not more than $45M/five years, based upon present
> ...


they weren't drafted as projects , they were drafted pretty much to be ready after they got acclimated to the nba game, you cant have it both ways unless you are getting a lebron/howard/duncan basically a franchise type who is intantly really good and his ceiling is sky high . the kirk deng and gordon trio were not drafted to be superstars, just good players...people were fine with it at 1st because there were relatively non-existant growing pains as opposed to the 3 C's who preceeded them as the team's core they took years and were inconsistent throughout.

now that there is a ceiling on the team and its time to pay, there is a problem...thats small time , the bulls are way too rich and profitable for that....they aren't the jazz or bucks . they should not have to rebuild every 5 years , they should be reloading.

adding to what they have and using the poorer teams as farm teams whenever possible.


this is a list of nba salaries last season from 15 mil. down to 7 mil.



> 20. Steve Francis (Por) ......... $15,070,000 [released 7/11/07]
> 21. Rashard Lewis (Orl) ......... $14,880,000
> 22. Michael Redd (Mil) .......... $14,520,000
> 23. Yao Ming (Hou) .............. $13,762,775
> ...



their price tags could litterally be anything , you got guys who were never as good as deng and gordon are making much more than the arbitrary 9 mil. a year tag and you have guys better than them making much less...they really only need 1 GM to like them enough to pay them what they want.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I wonder if we Reinsdorf could engineer a Kirk Hinrich, Drew Gooden, and Reinsdorf's blessing for Cuban to buy the Cubs for Dirk Nowitzki trade.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> ...the kirk deng and gordon trio were not drafted to be superstars, just good players...this is a list of nba salaries last season from 15 mil. down to 7 mil


Considering your previously made assumption, I did analyze submitted data with the following conclusion:

The average salary - $10,364,311 
Standard deviation - $ 2,244,099 


Maximum salary (Deng and Ben) should not exceed $ 63,042,047.37 (5 years) or $12,608,409 per year.

Minimum salary (Deng and Ben) should not be bellow $ 40,601,060 (5 years) or $8,120,212 per year.

So, the asking salary of $70M is way too high, specifically dealing with
His Cheapness.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Bulls96 said:


> Considering your previously made assumption, I did analyze submitted data with the following conclusion:
> 
> The average salary - $10,364,311
> Standard deviation - $ 2,244,099
> ...


i think its more about leverage than anything else...both deng and gordon are foriegn born players, both are playing in the olympics for GB, i dont see them having such a big problem playing overseas, or simply waiting the bulls out next season as unrestricted free agents.

in a league where both can be considered top 50 players during a good season and the avg. salary among 400+ players is 6 mil. 10 mil. a season or even more is not as out of bounds a request as its been made out to be.

you got hughes who signed with the right team at the right time for 5 yr. 70 mil. on the roster as proof...if he can get 14 mil a season surely its possible for ben and luol to get in the 10-11 range as UFA's...they can just easily sign for less which is also done quite a bit.

my issue is mainly that they(JP and JR) would allow such a situation to wreak havoc with another season when the team's chemistry which was already shaky after at one point being the team's stregnth....over an amount of money in the long run is not so important , its not like luol an ben are going to be on the downside of the careers at the end of their next long term deal....they can be dealt later , while their deal is still a bargain , and their value is high.

they shouldn't have let it happen last season , and to put a cloud on next season is setting it up for an uneeded hurdle in which may be a very trying season.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

// my issue is mainly that they(JP and JR) would allow such a situation to wreak havoc with another season when the team's chemistry which was already shaky after at one point being the team's strength”…//


Yes my friend, I am sure many of us will agree with you on that. 

Consider this: we drafted 29 players since 1999 and only three of them received extensions- Kirk, Du, Chandler (if I am not mistaken) . Later JR /Pax quickly reduced that numbers to one – Kirk.


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