# We should do either a Carmelo Anthony or Zach Randolph trade



## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

I think too much emphasis has been placed on character lately- given the current team make up, I think we can afford to have one "bad apple" on the team given the overall environment. Rumor has it that both Zach Randolph or Carmelo Anthony are available. To this end, I offer the following two trades.

Trade 1- For Carmelo Anthony, Linas Kleiza

Denver sends: Carmelo Anthony Linas Kleiza
We send: Raef la Frentz, Aldridge, & #13 pick.

Denver gets closer to salary cap room, and gets a great prospect in Aldridge, plus a lottery pick
We get a top ten player in the NBA- who could do well in the right environment, reunited with one of his Olympics assistant coaches. We also get a decent looking forward in Kleiza, who along with Frye can fill in at the 4 spot.


Trade 2- For Zach Randolph, #6 pick (assuming pick is Bayless or OJ Mayo)

New York sends- Zach Randolph
We send- Raef la Frentz, #13 pick and 2nd rounder

New York gets rid of a huge contract for a player that they don't know how to use effectively, they get two pick in exchange for 1 higher pick. New York keeps gets closer to its dream of salary cap room for Lebron.

We get a shot at another young star in the 6 spot in exchange for giving up salary cap room. We also get Zach Randolph, who could be instant offense off the bench- undefendable by any reserve. He could also be cut or bought out if he doesn't work out- ala Francis, but if you ignore the contract, I think there is undeniable talent there so long as he understands that he is not the star or starter anymore.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

If the Blazers make a drastic move this summer it'll be counter productive.

Any big moves they commit to should be next year. Anything beyond minor tinkering this offseason would be a major mistake.


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## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

You're not seriously suggesting we trade for ZBo and that NY would give him up AND #6 for Raef and #13.


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

hoojacks said:


> You're not seriously suggesting we trade for ZBo and that NY would give him up AND #6 for Raef and #13.


They might. The 6th pick might be the only way to get rid of ZBO. 

I'm not a fan of either though. I feel they'd disrupt team chemistry and take too many shots.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Bringing Zach back, especially to come off the bench, would be nothing short of a disaster.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Curious.

For the last couple of years, I have been listening to people claim that Zach has a *negative* value. There has been a large contingent of people who swear that Zach , regardless of what he does on the floor, magically makes his team lose.

If there was any truth to this hyperbole, the Knicks should be willing to give us the 6th pick just to be rid of him! Heck, based on the deal the Suns made to be rid of Kurt Thomas, they should give us *2* first round picks.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

Are you kidding me!? Both of those players are the definition of selfish. Have you forgotten how every time Zach touched the ball here, the offense came to a grinding halt? How does Oden/Pryzbilla/Aldridge/Frye/Outlaw/Zach even begin to work!? I'm not even going to get started on the Carmelo one...


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

these deals are terrible. why is it that everyone thinks we need to blow this team up for next season? We have ODEN and Rudy, isnt that enough to at least garner a looksee and then we can figure out what needs to happen after they've had 1 season?


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## dpc (Dec 26, 2007)

I'd rather have Darius playing over Carmelo or Zach.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

I'll consider this thread as sarcastic.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Just a general comment.

From the Sheed/Wells days through the exile of Randolph, I was one of the posters who didn't care about character or off-court antics. Especially Sheed and Zach, I thought at the time that we were making a huge mistake and that it was going to kill the Blazers (the Sheed trade actually did kill the Blazers). I mean, if they have the talent, isn't that what counts? It's all about the wins baby. 

Well, something changed this year, and it was not just that we started winning more. I actually came to really like the players on our team and now appreciate that character and not having off-court issues. More than that, I think these players also have just good personalities, they could be friends of mine. Even if the change in character makes zero affect on winning, I enjoy the Blazers much more. At one point at the end of this year, 3 straight games that I attended were losses, and I enjoyed every one of them. They worked their tails off and really seemed to be supporting one another both on-court and off. 

To tell the truth, I just don't want to give that up. It would be one thing if we won 18 games or something, that would get tiring, but as long as we are average or better, I would rather win less and be able to enjoy our players and feel like 'this is my team'.


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## Balian (Apr 11, 2008)

This is the most outlandish trade proposal coming from this forum yet. Unbelievable. We just got rid of a cancer called Zach Randolph. Did you know he and his Hoop Family were involved in a fight in Portland about a couple of weeks ago? And lets not talk about Melo. Getting rid one of the most hardworking, decent guy on this team like LMA for this trash is beyond the pale.


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

Oh hell ya, this team is going to be too good, we need to throw some cancer in the locker room with them.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> I think too much emphasis has been placed on character lately-


How so?

I challenge you to find one move we've made that was done so because the team put "too much emphasis" on character. Seems to me all the big moves we've made lately (I'm saying lately is the Kevin Pritchard era. So everything since the 2006 draft) have been solid basketball moves.

1. Trade up to get LaMarcus Aldridge.
LaMarcus is widely regarded as the second best player from the 2006 class. In his second season he averaged nearly 18 points and 8 rebounds. You can't tell me this was a move based on character. This was a move based on the fact that LaMarcus was the best player available.

2. Trade Telfair for Roy.
If you're going to argue that this was a character move you're off your rocker.

3. Draft Greg Oden.
Granted, we haven't actually seen Greg in a real NBA game yet. But by all accounts he's primed to end up being the best player out of that draft class.

4. Traded Zach Randolph for Channing Frye, James Jones and Rudy Fernandez
At the time it could have been argued that this was a character move. Many a source has said that Brandon Roy (The poster boy for the new high character Blazers) told Kevin Pritchard he wanted Zach off the team. But having seen the on the court results there's no argument that this wasn't a good basketball move.
Aldridge blew up without Zach. Channing and James both made solid contributions to our success. Rudy was the MVP of the Euroleague and looks like he's going to be an important part of our future.

If you nitpick at the little moves I'm sure you can find something. Good luck 
:smoothcriminal:

Kevin Pritchard has done a hell of a job adding talented players to our roster. Sure, he's also had an eye on character. But you're making it out like it's a bad thing that's been a detriment to the team. Like we'd somehow be better off if Kevin Pritchard hadn't paid attention to character.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Traded Zach Randolph for Channing Frye, James Jones and *Rudy Fernandez*


Didn't we just buy the pick from Phoenix for Rudy?


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

MrJayremmie said:


> Didn't we just buy the pick from Phoenix for Rudy?


I think the ZBO trade gave us a trade exception that we used to get Jones and Fernandez.


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## UOSean (Jul 7, 2005)

no, we bought the sergio pick, but traded for rudy.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

if we dealt raef for zbo and #6, we would basically be trading....

raef lafrentz, freddie jones, and dan dickau

for

frye, james jones, rudy, and #6(gordon maybe?)

not a bad deal.

ZBO would be the best backup pf EVER.

EVER EVER.

seriously, we would actually be raping new york, it would probably get KP arrested.

ROY
RUDY
LMA
ODEN
ZBO
#6
OUTLAW
MARTELL
#13
FRYE
PRYZ
BLAKE

might be the best 12 man roster EVER EVER.
not to mention

jack
sergio
koponen
freeland
mcroberts
#33
#36


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## blazermaniaisback (Jun 7, 2007)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Bringing Zach back, especially to come off the bench, would be nothing short of a disaster.


not for the portland area strip clubs...


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

The problem is, we don't know what moves don't get made over "character" issues.

For all we know, Lawson is blowing people away in tryouts, but the Blazers won't even consider him over the stupid MIP charge.

Josh Howard or Noah could be on the trade market for cheap, but the Blazers won't even make an offer. What if we had a chance to trade up in the draft for OJ Mayo? We are in the dark.


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## Entity (Feb 21, 2005)

_Why in the world_ do we want to spend $48 million through 2011 on a backup power forward that we just got rid of? Portland would never live it down. ESPN would be talking about that mistake for years. Besides, what Randolph brings is what Oden would bring and then some. Let's not focus only on what happened last year as far as what we need.

As for Carmelo, let's not make any moves that involve trading any of our big three without seeing them actually play together for the first time. We're not in any hurry yet. We just need to tweak our team a little bit.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

MrJayremmie said:


> Didn't we just buy the pick from Phoenix for Rudy?


We actually received a Trade Exception in the NY trade, that we then sent to Phoenix for Jones and Rudy. We could have bought the Rudy pick straight up, but in order to essentially trade no one and get Jones back, we needed the Trade Exception. Essentially, that deal might not have happened without the NY trade.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Sweet. A trade proposal for one of two headcases that are black-holes/chuckers and play ZERO mother ****ing D! Where do I sign?

If KP is going to take a chance on a risky player please god make it Ron Artest.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Both trades are absolutely impossible. 

Melo is not available.

It is not the right time to add hugh bad contracts.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Ummmmm...as I recall our best player flat our told Nate and KP that he didn't want to play with Zach....so why on earth would we bring him back here?


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

This is the dumbest trade proposal I've seen yet...wow


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

This thread is completely ridiculous in terms of reality.

How about Rasheed Wallace for Raef while we're at it?


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

drexlersdad said:


> ZBO would be the best backup pf EVER.
> 
> EVER EVER.


ZBO as a back-up PF at an extended max contract is the best back-up PF EVER?????!!!

LOL


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## HurraKane212 (Aug 2, 2007)

Ballscientist said:


> Both trades are absolutely impossible.
> 
> Melo is not available.
> 
> It is not the right time to add hugh bad contracts.


OM F-ing G...

Ballscientist is correct. :shocked:

I agree with Ballscientist. :shocked:

What are these four gentlemen doing here on these variously colored horses? Is that the seventh seal I hear breaking?


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## <-=*PdX*=-> (Oct 11, 2007)

this team did so well this year because zbo wasnt here. Are you seriously suggesting bringing him back?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?1


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

ebott said:


> How so?
> 
> I challenge you to find one move we've made that was done so because the team put "too much emphasis" on character. Seems to me all the big moves we've made lately (I'm saying lately is the Kevin Pritchard era. So everything since the 2006 draft) have been solid basketball moves.
> 
> ...


Too much emphasis has been placed on character in this board- you know, the one that you are posting on?


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

The bottom line is that either of my two trade proposals add talent to the Blazers.

Carmelo Anthony was widely considered the best player during the last Olympic team go around. He would fill the three spot very well- incredible offense and decent defense. He's much better than Aldridge is at this point. And Anthony is young.

Zach Randolph, if he can be had for cheap, is also a very good player- but this trade is done primarily to move up 7 slots to grab one of two point guard prospects- Mayo or Bayless. I wouldn't do the trade if either of those weren't available when the Knicks pick.

Zach Randolph and Bayless (or Mayo) for basically just cap room improves our team.

Look at the lineup under the Zach trade- 

Bayless/Blake/Jack/Sergio
Roy/Rudy/Webster
Outlaw/Jones
Aldridge/Randolph/Frye
Oden/Pryzbilla

we're left with really only one hole in the lineup- at the 3 spot. And we have post scoring in our reserves. Zach remains one of the most talented players in the post.


Yes, both trades require that we take a chance on a bad character, but I think we can afford to have one Rodman with the rest of the guys that we have on the team.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Yes, both trades require that we take a chance on a bad character, but I think we can afford to have one Rodman with the rest of the guys that we have on the team.


KP said we aren't ready to do that yet. So i guess its a moot point.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> The bottom line is that either of my two trade proposals add talent to the Blazers.
> 
> Carmelo Anthony was widely considered the best player during the last Olympic team go around. He would fill the three spot very well- incredible offense and decent defense. He's much better than Aldridge is at this point. And Anthony is young.
> 
> ...


Bob is that you?

Seriously you think adding "bad character" in the form of players that play no defense is going to make this a better team? And picking up Zach "cheaply" isn't humanly possible, since his contract is enormous. Furthermore, there is no "taking a chance" on Zach, the team already took its chances on him and it didn't work out; it's a poorly kept secret that Brandon or LaMarcus gave the greenlight to trade his fat ***, and now you want to bring his B.S. back to Portland?

I already mentioned it above, if you want to take a chance on a guy then take a chance on a guy who plays defense and isn't a team killing cancer (Zach), or a Chucking prima donna (Melo).


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

PapaG said:


> ZBO as a back-up PF at an extended max contract is the best back-up PF EVER?????!!!
> 
> LOL


ummmmmmmmm................................................since you "laughed out loud", i feel better about telling you IT WAS A JOKE.


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## <-=*PdX*=-> (Oct 11, 2007)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> The bottom line is that either of my two trade proposals add talent to the Blazers.
> 
> Carmelo Anthony was widely considered the best player during the last Olympic team go around. He would fill the three spot very well- incredible offense and decent defense. He's much better than Aldridge is at this point. And Anthony is young.
> 
> ...


Zbo and talent mentioned together? Sir, I think you have lost your mind.


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## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

yeah lets bring back Zach. Great idea. BRILLIANT!!! You should be president. Fire KP and hire this guy.

pppffftttt... what a freakin moron.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> I think too much emphasis has been placed on character lately- given the current team make up, I think we can afford to have one "bad apple" on the team given the overall environment. Rumor has it that both Zach Randolph or Carmelo Anthony are available. To this end, I offer the following two trades.
> 
> Trade 1- For Carmelo Anthony, Linas Kleiza
> 
> ...


Wow. Don't know what to say.

Ok, I lied.

First, Carmelo is NOT a top 10 player. Inefficient scorer. Terrible defender. Doesn't make his teammates better.

Second, your idea is all moot anyway as KP has recently stated that the team (and the city) are NOT ready to take on a talented player with issues. He said he won't do it right now. So you can forget any of these guys for at least 1 year.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

This thread might as well be entitled "We should eat crap and die!"


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

hasoos said:


> This thread might as well be entitled "We should eat crap and die!"


:clap::lol:

As others said, these are 2 of the dumbest trade idea's that have ever been posted on this board. Instant classic!

After we make these deals, I suggest we also trade:
Roy for Josh Howard
Rudy for Noah
Oden for Wilcox & #3 pick


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## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

Yeah, this is easily in the top 3 most terrible trade ideas on this forum ever.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

B_&_B said:


> :clap::lol:
> 
> As others said, these are 2 of the dumbest trade idea's that have ever been posted on this board. Instant classic!
> 
> ...



Uh, no...

I was talking about the possibility of Noah or Howard being on the market *at a discount*. Getting those guys on the cheap is not the same as shelling out full price for Melo. Sometimes you have to take calculated risks.


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

Carmelo Anthony has a PER of 21/22/22 over the last three years. (Roy's best is 19) Not quite a prima donna chucker. In fact, he was the leading scorer for the US in the 2007 Olympic team. He's hardly an inefficient scorer- field goal percentage of 49 percent. Hollinger from ESPN has the following to say about him: A gifted scorer with incredible instincts around the basket, Anthony is among the league's toughest covers. He's big and knows how to use his body in the post, but has the quickness and dribbling skill of a much smaller player.

But, hey, don't let facts get in the way. Trading for a stud like Carmelo is definitely the worst trade idea ever... I just hope you don't use that same logic in daily life.

And Zach Randolph/Bayless(or Mayo) >>> talent than Raef, 13 pick- even if we were to cut Randolph. It adds a 4th star.

But add Zach's name and you get the gallery riled up. Good thing I didn't say Raef plus Aldridge for Lebron and Bonzi Wells. I would have gotten ten responses about how people don't like Bonzi!


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Melo is a talented scorer no doubt, but he loafs on defense, and plays like a quitter (exhibit A this year's playoffs); he's a bad trade target because he so expensive, demands the ball, and is a sub .300 career 3pt shooter ... he's basically the antithesis of what this team needs at the 3 spot (chiefly the ability to hit outside shots, and play good perimeter or team defense) ... besides I'd much rather have the possibility of the next twin towers for 10+ years.

As for Zach, spare us your mock outrage. The guy is a born loser, despite putting up great fantasy numbers that essentially do nothing for his team. Because of his bloated salary, inability to pass, piss-poor on court behavior, and not even a pretense of effort on the defensive end of the court, he's about the worst fit I can imagine as a backup PF.


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## whatsmyname (Jul 6, 2007)

is this a joke?


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

whatsmyname said:


> is this a joke?


I've been wondering the same thing ...


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> Carmelo Anthony has a PER of 21/22/22 over the last three years. (Roy's best is 19) Not quite a prima donna chucker. In fact, he was the leading scorer for the US in the 2007 Olympic team. He's hardly an inefficient scorer- field goal percentage of 49 percent. Hollinger from ESPN has the following to say about him: A gifted scorer with incredible instincts around the basket, Anthony is among the league's toughest covers. He's big and knows how to use his body in the post, but has the quickness and dribbling skill of a much smaller player.
> 
> But, hey, don't let facts get in the way. Trading for a stud like Carmelo is definitely the worst trade idea ever... I just hope you don't use that same logic in daily life.
> 
> ...


Well, to be fair to Roy, his 19 in his 2nd year compares to 16.7 for Carmelo's 2nd season, though Caremlo was younger. But, whatever.

Carmelo is a very talented scorer.

PER is a very nice stat concept.

In spite of those things, Carmelo is still not a top flight, MVP caliber scorer, nor is he a net plus for most teams, compared to many other "franchise" players.

Carmelo is overall, an average to slightly above average quality primary option scorer. Because of that and because he takes so many shots as a shoot first, pass second gunner on a very fast paced team, he ends up with a high PER number. His shooting percentage is goosed up by fast break layups on a run-and-gun offense. It is inferior in half-court sets - ie, playoff basketball, where he has underperformed. If he was a below average quality scorer his PER would suffer much more.

Additionaly, PER cannot and does not account for defense and team basketball. Two areas where Carmelo is HEAVILY critisized. Carmelo is critisized for his poor shot selection. Carmelo has not led his team to much success despite having pretty damn talented teammates. Carmelo may improve his game - though he hasn't made any big improvements in three years now. But, LA will probably improve too.

This is an instance where the PER score, by itself is a bit misleading. Take these other factors into consideration and maybe you can understand why so many on this board gave the trade idea one big giant rasberry.

Instead of being so defensive, maybe consider what some others are thinking.

Trade an improving young player, who works hard on both ends of the court, who seems on paper to be a dream match for Oden (low-post, high-post) who has never had one-tenth of the PR issues of Carmelo, who shows an ability to take quality shots in a half-court set, etc. And you propose they give that up, for what?

I proposed a LA for Rose trade is a previous thread. To me, that is the caliber and fit you would need to consider shipping out LA for. Not Carmelo.


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