# Vinsanity to Memphis



## MemphisX

ESPN reported that Memphis offered Mike Miller and Bonzi Wells for Vince Carter.

I think this would be a great deal for Memphis especially now that we know Dahntay is going to be a player. Even though Mike Miller is coming around and Bonzi is Bonzi. Vince has a higher ceiling and I think when he gets traded, he will start driving to the hoop again.


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## Charlotte_______

Seems like a better trade than the Portland one.


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## quick

I don't agree.


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## UKfan4Life

Someone change the title please. I read this and thought it was a done deal, which nearly caused a ruined pair of boxers. :jawdrop:


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## talula

Ron Tillery said today on Vernon's show that the Raptors contacted the Grizzlies with that offer. Jerry West declined.


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## c_dog

is this the same vince carter who said he would no longer dunk? what's vince carter without dunks? a 6'6 earl watson... i think that's a fair comparison

note that vince carter is one of the most creative players in the nba. he's the only player who's ever drive to the hoop and then *fade away* on his drives :uhoh:. i've never seen anybody do it, not anywhere. what a way to attack the rim. with a move like that he's been able to average an amazing 3.8 freethrows per game, that's why he's half (wo)man, half amazing.:sour:


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>talula</b>!
> Ron Tillery said today on Vernon's show that the Raptors contacted the Grizzlies with that offer. Jerry West declined.


Good. I don't think a change of scenery is going to change Vince's playing style and general attitude. He's going to average 16ppg or less from here on out in his career.

He's a dog.


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## SheriffKilla

good trade for grizz
bonzi is trash and mike miller is too injury prone


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## UKfan4Life

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> good trade for grizz
> bonzi is trash


:uhoh: Bonzi is trash? Riiiight...

Mike Miller is definitley too injury prone, but I don't like this trade. What we need right now is a very good and consistent rebounder and post defender/shot-blocker. VC doesn't provide any of those aspects.


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> good trade for grizz
> bonzi is trash and mike miller is too injury prone


BONZI WELLS
13.8 ppg
3.1 rpg
2.6 apg
1.45 spg
27.9 mpg
.450 FG%
*.625 3PT%*

VINCE CARTER
14.5 ppg
3.5 rpg
3.5 apg
1.45 spg
30.2 mpg
.380 FG%
.294 3PT%


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## SheriffKilla

thats just this season
you dont expect bonzi to shoot 62 percent the whole season??

adn we all know how "hard" vince has been trying


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> thats just this season
> you dont expect bonzi to shoot 62 percent the whole season??


_Exactly_. Oh sorry. Let's use career averages to determine who would be good to bring in this year.

Bonzi won't shoot 62% for the year. But he's proven so far that this year he's a more viable and efficient weapon from outside and inside the three-point line.



> adn we all know how "hard" vince has been trying


Yes, we do. All the more reason to tell Toronto to stick it.

And don't flip your argument. You said Bonzi Wells was trash. I showed that you were wrong. Argument over.


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## EJlover

*Huh?*

How would Vince be a 6'6" Earl Watson if he decides not to dunk? Earl is a great dunker! He probably won't be dunking for a while this year because of his calf, but he's had some spectacular dunks in his time.


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## talula

*Re: Huh?*



> Originally posted by <b>EJlover</b>!
> Earl is a great dunker! He probably won't be dunking for a while this year because of his calf, but he's had some spectacular dunks in his time.


Earl does have some hops. I'll never forget his block on Shawn Bradley.


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## -inVINCEible-

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> and I think when he gets traded, he will start driving to the hoop again.


are you sure about that lol


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## c_dog

*Re: Huh?*



> Originally posted by <b>EJlover</b>!
> How would Vince be a 6'6" Earl Watson if he decides not to dunk? Earl is a great dunker! He probably won't be dunking for a while this year because of his calf, but he's had some spectacular dunks in his time.


er.. well i said earl watson i was talking more about their game. good rebounder and below-average to mediocre shooter, and good passer. i didn't mean they were exactly identicle.


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## Buck Williams

POR is a lock 4 carter already sry guys:laugh: :grinning: :yes:


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## UKfan4Life

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerben4</b>!
> POR is a lock 4 carter already sry guys:laugh: :grinning: :yes:


If you read the whole thread, we know we're not getting him.

And to trade Bonzi and Mike Miller for him? I'll pass.


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerben4</b>!
> POR is a lock 4 carter already sry guys:laugh: :grinning: :yes:


You can have him. He's a bum.

I look forward to seeing Mixum start 13 threads the first time Carter scores under 10.


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## Mavs Dude

Would you guys be interested in these 3 way dance:
Milwaukee trades:
Michael Redd
Daniel Santiago
Milwaukee receives:
Pau Gasol

Memphis trades:
Pau Gasol
Bonzi Wells
Lorenzen Wright
Ryan Humphrey
Memphis receives:
Michael Redd
Eddy Curry
Antonio Davis

Chicago trades:
Eddy Curry
Antonio Davis
Chicago receives:
Bonzi Wells
Lorenzen Wright
Ryan Humphrey

RealGM Memphis fans liked it. Not many Chicago fans answered to it. Milwaukee fans also liked it.


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> 
> 
> You can have him. He's a bum.
> 
> I look forward to seeing Mixum start 13 threads the first time Carter scores under 10.


Like I was saying...


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## Mavs Dude

Anybody got any input on my trade?


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> 
> 
> You can have him. He's a bum.
> 
> I look forward to seeing Mixum start 13 threads the first time Carter scores under 10.


:yes: :yes: He's finished.


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## MemphisX

Predictions of Vince Carter's demise are greatly exaggerated. As soon as he is traded look for him to explode. Jeez, he averaged 22,5,5 just last season.


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>Mavs Dude</b>!
> Would you guys be interested in these 3 way dance:
> Milwaukee trades:
> Michael Redd
> Daniel Santiago
> Milwaukee receives:
> Pau Gasol
> 
> Memphis trades:
> Pau Gasol
> Bonzi Wells
> Lorenzen Wright
> Ryan Humphrey
> Memphis receives:
> Michael Redd
> Eddy Curry
> Antonio Davis
> 
> Chicago trades:
> Eddy Curry
> Antonio Davis
> Chicago receives:
> Bonzi Wells
> Lorenzen Wright
> Ryan Humphrey
> 
> RealGM Memphis fans liked it. Not many Chicago fans answered to it. Milwaukee fans also liked it.


PG Jason Williams, Earl Watson, Antonio Burks
SG Michael Redd, Mike Miller, Dahntay Jones, Andre Emmett
SF James Posey, Shane Battier
PF Stromile Swift, Brian Cardinal
C Eddy Curry, Antonio Davis, Jake Tsakalidis

I don't mind this, I guess. I took the Redd/Gasol idea and made my own trade idea in Jazzman's thread, and then did Bonzi and company for another Bulls center. I like those better, ultimately because I don't think too high of Curry. But not bad.


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## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> :yes: :yes: He's finished.


I guess some people are wrong 

2004-05
Statistics with the NETS

PPG 26.3 
RPG 6
APG 5 

INCLUDING 3, 40 pts games in the last 4.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> I guess some people are wrong
> 
> 2004-05
> Statistics with the NETS
> 
> PPG 26.3
> RPG 6
> APG 5
> 
> INCLUDING 3, 40 pts games in the last 4.


Hahaha. I got owned. I had a feeling I posted on this thread. :laugh:


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## ChitwoodStyle

> Originally posted by <b>Mavs Dude</b>!
> Would you guys be interested in these 3 way dance:
> Milwaukee trades:
> Michael Redd
> Daniel Santiago
> Milwaukee receives:
> Pau Gasol
> 
> Memphis trades:
> Pau Gasol
> Bonzi Wells
> Lorenzen Wright
> Ryan Humphrey
> Memphis receives:
> Michael Redd
> Eddy Curry
> Antonio Davis
> 
> Chicago trades:
> Eddy Curry
> Antonio Davis
> Chicago receives:
> Bonzi Wells
> Lorenzen Wright
> Ryan Humphrey
> 
> RealGM Memphis fans liked it. Not many Chicago fans answered to it. Milwaukee fans also liked it.


I really hate this trade we one swing guy for another shooter, we already have good shooters in Miller, Battier, and Cardinal, and our best player Gasol for a lazy Curry and an elderly Davis. Why would we do this trade. We then would have to resign Curry, Redd, and attempt to resign Swift in the offseason. If West made a trade like this I would quit being a Grizz fan, that is just horrible.


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## MemphisX

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> Predictions of Vince Carter's demise are greatly exaggerated. As soon as he is traded look for him to explode. Jeez, he averaged 22,5,5 just last season.


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> 
> 
> Good. I don't think a change of scenery is going to change Vince's playing style and general attitude. He's going to average 16ppg or less from here on out in his career.


This was wrong.



> He's a dog.


This will always be right.


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## The_Franchise

Instead of getting an expiring contract and Mike Miller for Vince Carter, Toronto got...  

Memphis would have been very dangerous with Carter. We're talking a Dikembe Mutombo away from being a title contender. I guess I'm glad he stayed in the East.


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## SheriffKilla

so guys
still wouldnt trade Bonzi "trash" Wells
and Mike "injury prone" Miller
for VC???

i dont understand how u proved me wrong??
by postin Bonzi Well's stats over the first like 10 games of the season

um i got owned....i guess


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> so guys
> still wouldnt trade Bonzi "trash" Wells
> and Mike "injury prone" Miller
> for VC???
> 
> i dont understand how u proved me wrong??
> by postin Bonzi Well's stats over the first like 10 games of the season
> 
> um i got owned....i guess


Bonzi Wells averages 11/3/2 in 23 minutes and getting very inconsistent playing time. He's also shooting very well from downtown and is among the league leaders in steals per game.

He's not off the charts, and he's probably the first guy I want traded off the team, but he certainly isn't garbage. That's why you're wrong.

And maybe you could tell me when Mike Miller has missed any significant time due to injury this year. Nicknaming him "injury prone" is pure stupidity.

Don't post here anymore.


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## SheriffKilla

lol, i was obviously exaggeratin
after all Carter is a little injury prone as well

but the question remains

would u trade Miller and Wells for Carter or not?

cuz if the answer is yes
I WAS RIGHT!
cuz that was my point the whole time


[email protected] all of a sudden now Wells is the first guy u trade huh?


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## grizzhoops

I wouldn't. Vince is all about himself and he is a talented loser at the end of the day.


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> lol, i was obviously exaggeratin


"[email protected] all of a sudden I was obviously exaggeratin"



> after all Carter is a little injury prone as well
> 
> but the question remains
> 
> would u trade Miller and Wells for Carter or not?
> 
> cuz if the answer is yes
> I WAS RIGHT!
> cuz that was my point the whole time


The point I've been arguing this whole time is that Bonzi Wells is not "trash."

And no, I still wouldn't do the trade.



> [email protected] all of a sudden now Wells is the first guy u trade huh?


He's always been the obvious choice. "All of a sudden.." Maybe you should pay more attention or go back to the ESPN boards. Bonzi's been in almost every trade proposal I've posted here. With Mike Miller having a career year from the floor and Dahntay Jones coming into his own, along with Bonzi's contract (possibly) expiring in the offseason, he's the obvious guy to move. Posey barely even have playing time with our swingman depth, let alone Bonzi.


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## SheriffKilla

you really think i meant it when i said wells is complete trash
come on he is puttin up solid numbers in the world's best league

i just think he is really overrated
and probably the worst player in the Grizz constant rotation
i like miller
but the grizz need a true star
so it would be great for them to obtain VC
and even if you dont think they need a star
anyone in their right mind would trade miller and bonzi for him


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## grizzhoops

> and probably the worst player in the Grizz constant rotation


What's "contsant rotation" mean?

True star? Are the Grizzlies trying to sell jerseys or are they trying to build a franchise? VC will probably go on the IL once the Nets are out of the playoff hunt but he will still be making his $12.5M this year. His contract still has $57M left on it. How many games will that get his team over the next 4 seasons?

IHMO VC isn't the answer. $57M for a guy who says that he doesn't always give his best. A guy who needs to be in the media limelight which isn't so bright in Memphis. I don't think it works.


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## UKfan4Life

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> you really think i meant it when i said wells is complete trash
> come on he is puttin up solid numbers in the world's best league
> 
> i just think he is really overrated
> and probably the worst player in the Grizz constant rotation
> i like miller
> but the grizz need a true star
> so it would be great for them to obtain VC
> and even if you dont think they need a star
> anyone in their right mind would trade miller and bonzi for him


Well, you never said anything to even hint that you were exaggerating, so that's you're fault.

Overrated? How? Who is hyping him up? Ever since Fratello came in, Bonzi has been playing very well. Worst player in the Grizzlies rotation? Dahntay Jones. Ryan Humphery. Antonio Burks. No knock on those guys (especially Dahntay), but I would consider Bonzi to be better than all three of them.

The Grizz don't need a true star unless it's the physical big man that almost always has consistently great rebounding and/or shot-blocking nights. We have Pau, but he is finnesse, not physical. A guy like Jamal Magloire is what this team NEEDS, not Vince Carter.


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## MemphisX

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> A guy like Jamal Magloire is what this team NEEDS, not Vince Carter.


You are wrong. The Grizz need a player that will go out and consistently put up 22-27 points a night and willing/capable of playing big in the last 5 minutes. Vince Carter would make the Grizzlies a much better team than Magloire and it ain't even close.


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## SheriffKilla

ya bonzi is better than burks/humphries/d.jones
but i mean out of guys that actually get minutes

and no bonzi hasnt been playin well since fratello took over

battier/jwill/gasol/l.wright have stepped up their games

cardinal/swift/bonzi/d.jones have been playin worse

posey has had a disappointin season overall

m.miller/e.watson consitentaly good players


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## UKfan4Life

fjkdsi said:


> ya bonzi is better than burks/humphries/d.jones
> but i mean out of guys that actually get minutes


Ok, this proves you pay very little attention to the Grizzlies. Dahntay has been getting huge minutes as of late and Burks has been getting decent minutes. Humphreys is getting in the games every now and then as well.



> and no bonzi hasnt been playin well since fratello took over


Again, this proves you haven't paid much attention to the Grizz. Bonzi has been playing excellent under Fratello. When Fratello took over, Bonzi at one point led the League in three point %.



> battier/jwill/gasol/l.wright have stepped up their games


Duh. But, as of the last few games, Shane hasn't been playing very well (and his shot hasn't been falling). Again, watch the Grizzlies instead of assuming these things.



> cardinal/swift/bonzi/d.jones have been playin worse


Are you serious? B.C. has been playing very well, especially as three-point bomber, and so has Stromile. He had 18 points in our game against Boston before getting injured. Bonzi's game has stepped up tremendously. He was on track for a very lackluster season at the start of the season. And to say Dahntay Jones has been playing worse is funny and stupid. Or stupidly funny. He got barely any chances at all to play under Hubie, and now he is playing excellent ball (for him anyway). Yet again, watching the Grizzlies instead of assuming all of this would really help.



> posey has had a disappointin season overall


Finally you post something that is true. Yeah, JP OVERALL has had a poor season, but being out with injuries, especially at the beginning of the year, has affected him a whole lot.





> m.miller/e.watson consitentaly good players


This is pretty funny. Calling Earl consistently good, yet again, shows you don't watch the Grizzlies at all. Mike Miller is somewhat consistent, but when he has games where his shot isn't falling from the outside, he becomes very passive.

It's obvious you don't watch or pay any attention to the Grizzlies. Stop right now before you make yourself look any dumber. Almost everything you just posted is the complete opposite of what is true.


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## UKfan4Life

MemphisX said:


> You are wrong. The Grizz need a player that will go out and consistently put up 22-27 points a night and willing/capable of playing big in the last 5 minutes. Vince Carter would make the Grizzlies a much better team than Magloire and it ain't even close.


The way I see it, the Grizzlies Achilles Heel is rebounding. A guy like Vince Carter would no doubt help the team, but a guy like Jamal Magloire is a player who is likely to average double-digit rebounds.

But yeah, the Grizz also need a clutch performer that plays big in the closing minutes of the game.

To clear something up, I'd much rather want a big man other than Magloire that is a consistent physical rebounder and shot-blocker game in and game out, but (and correct me if I'm wrong), out of all of the players in the NBA of that type, Magloire is probably the most attainable.


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## SheriffKilla

i have seen the increase in dantay's minutes he even started a few games lately
and when it comes down to it he is about as good as bonzi to me
humphries and burks hardly get in at all

bonzi did lead the league in 3pt % under fratello but it was mostly a hold over from his excellent shootin start under hubie brown
and even than his lack of ball movement, tendency to keep the ball to long, and weak defense had a negative impact on the team

i am a grizz fan but i dont live in memphis so i only get to see the nationaly televised games and some games on league pass
but battier has been rippin it up since fratello took over he has been probably the grizz best player along wit gasol
i havent seen the last few games so i cant say though about those

cardinal is my favorite player in the whole league and he is a good player but he played better in the start of the season under hubie
he has been very good though
stro had a great start of the season and i thought he was ready to really fullfil his potential wit minutes
but lately l.wright has been really out playin him and between wright/gasol and even cardinal swift hasnt done much to prove he is worty to get PT in that rotation
d.jones has played a lot under hubie too
he averaged around 20 mpg
from nov 9 - nov 27
dont beleive me look it up...
so that proves YOU dont watch grizzlies



i dont meant earl and mike miller are the grizz two most consistent players on the grizz from game to game 
i meant as in the played great under hubie
and great under fratello
so they had consistent play under both coaches


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## UKfan4Life

fjkdsi said:


> i have seen the increase in dantay's minutes he even started a few games lately
> and when it comes down to it he is about as good as bonzi to me
> humphries and burks hardly get in at all


Ok, so Dahntay is one of the ones who "actually gets minutes" on the Grizzlies team, just as I said. His defense is better than Bonzi, but all around Bonzi is still ahead of him. Yeah, Humphreys and Burks hardly get to play, but they DO play.



> bonzi did lead the league in 3pt % under fratello but it was mostly a hold over from his excellent shootin start under hubie brown
> and even than his lack of ball movement, tendency to keep the ball to long, and weak defense had a negative impact on the team


Sigh. Bonzi did NOT have a very good shooting start under Hubie if I recall correctly. At least, not as good as when Fratello came in (and if not, this could just be pure coincidence). I remember me and my friends always complaining about what went wrong with Bonzi and why he isn't play to his potential. You said "even then". Are you saying he is still having a negative impact on the team? Because if you are, chances are you're wrong. When he's in the game, he is looked at and expected to score, score, score whenever he can.



> i am a grizz fan but i dont live in memphis so i only get to see the nationaly televised games and some games on league pass
> but battier has been rippin it up since fratello took over he has been probably the grizz best player along wit gasol
> i havent seen the last few games so i cant say though about those


Battier has been playing well the whole season. Only recently has he been not playing so well, but he's just in one of those funks that just goes away with time.



> cardinal is my favorite player in the whole league and he is a good player but he played better in the start of the season under hubie
> he has been very good though
> stro had a great start of the season and i thought he was ready to really fullfil his potential wit minutes
> but lately l.wright has been really out playin him and between wright/gasol and even cardinal swift hasnt done much to prove he is worty to get PT in that rotation
> d.jones has played a lot under hubie too
> he averaged around 20 mpg
> from nov 9 - nov 27
> dont beleive me look it up...
> so that proves YOU dont watch grizzlies


B.C. is playing better under Fratello hands down. I think it's mostly due in part to the fact that B.C. never wandered out to the three-point line under Hubie, and whether or not Hubie didn't want him to do that or not is beyond me.

Ren has been playing very well. He's definitley showing why he's considered such a hard-worker and a "warrior" with some of these double-digit rebounding nights.

Stromile has been playing pretty well all season, but has been very inconsistent at the same time. He's proven enough to get PT. To say he hasn't is ludicrous.

Dahntay wasn't nearly as effective under Hubie than he is now. He's more of a key part of this team now with Fratello as the coach.

I don't watch the Grizzlies? Heh. Funny you should say that. In fact, it's the complete opposite. I live in Memphis. I have season tickets to the Forum. I have been to over 80% of the home games and have not missed a single game all season. Even the games that weren't broadcast here I saw since I have League Pass. Don't worry. I watch the Grizzlies a whole lot and I also have had the fortune of meeting a lot of the players.




> i dont meant earl and mike miller are the grizz two most consistent players on the grizz from game to game
> i meant as in the played great under hubie
> and great under fratello
> so they had consistent play under both coaches


You could say that for Mike Miller, but not Earl. His game hasn't changed much at all from the coaching switch. He still has the decision making problems, the inability to run our half-court offense effectively, and he dribbles WAY TOO MUCH. If he isn't dishing the ball well, isn't playing well on the break, or isn't shooting well from downtown, then he is highly ineffective on offense.


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## SheriffKilla

ok i cant say i have watched burks and humphreys enough to account for their play so lets not talk about them
d.jones better defender/worse offense than bonzi
and remember offense and defense are equal so..
i guess they are about equal..(both arent that good)

ya
i think he is havin a negative impact on the team
bonzi, swift and l.wright are really killin us this year

ya recently battier has been on a little of a slide
but overall he improved his play greatly from hubie to fratello


BC had a terrific game the other day, but besides that he hasnt really played much under Fratello
except the last 15 games
i havent really seen that much of those games so i cant speak
but i saw the game against the clippers and the game against phoenix and he didnt play that well
but i also saw the game against blazers and he had 5 assists and did a good job overall
against boston i didnt really catch most of the game
but 10-10 FTs
thats one thing Brian has always done well
he knows how to get himself to the line

anyway i'm sure you go to a lot of games and see all the games and maybe even know the players.
but you are really not that good at evaluating talent
actually instead of evaluating talent you are too easily swayed by the amount of minutes/hype/stats for each player
Earl Watson is 10 times the defender JWill is, he is just as good of a passer, he is a good athlete, he knows how to lead the team, and he has really improved his shootin stroke this season
he still has a turnover problem cuz he sometimes forces passes but just alone on his defensive improvement over Jwill he should be starting


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## GNG

fjkdsi said:


> ok i cant say i have watched burks and humphreys enough to account for their play so lets not talk about them
> d.jones better defender/worse offense than bonzi
> and remember offense and defense are equal so..
> i guess they are about equal..(both arent that good)


Wow, that's the worst basketball argument I've ever heard. Bruce Bowen is a better defender than Larry Bird ever was. Even though Larry is better offensively, it doesn't matter, since offense and defense are equal.

Bruce Bowen = Larry Bird.



> ya
> i think he is havin a negative impact on the team
> bonzi, swift and l.wright are really killin us this year


Support your argument, please. Lorenzen Wright has stepped his game up considerably since Pau has been out. Those players have all had a negative impact on the team at one point or another, but which player(s) on our team have been down-the-middle, consistently good all year? Nobody, except maybe Pau.



> ya recently battier has been on a little of a slide
> but overall he improved his play greatly from hubie to fratello


This is almost true. Leave out the word "greatly," and you'd have it. Shane wasn't exactly playing like a bum when Hubie was here either, although you're making it sound like it.



> BC had a terrific game the other day, but besides that he hasnt really played much under Fratello
> except the last 15 games


Maybe because those 15 games before, he was injured. Cardinal has only been back for exactly 15 games, where he has averaged 21.1 minutes per game. His season average is 19.9. That means that his season average was less than 19.9 before he came back from injury with Fratello coaching.



> i havent really seen that much of those games so i cant speak


You've made it glaringly obvious.



> but i saw the game against the clippers and the game against phoenix and he didnt play that well


Against the Clips, he was the fourth-leading scorer that night on 50 percent shooting and had just one turnover. He also grabbed five rebounds. It wasn't a bad performance by any stretch.

Against the Suns, he had nine points, five rebounds and two assists, all above his season averages. He also shot 60 percent.



> but i also saw the game against blazers and he had 5 assists and did a good job overall


He had a nice all-around game, other than his shooting.



> against boston i didnt really catch most of the game
> but 10-10 FTs
> thats one thing Brian has always done well
> he knows how to get himself to the line


We know. We're the ones that watch Grizzlies games.



> Earl Watson is 10 times the defender JWill is


Earl is a better defender -- I don't know of a single person that would argue this.



> he is just as good of a passer, he is a good athlete, he knows how to lead the team, and he has really improved his shootin stroke this season


He is _not_ just as good a passer.

I love how this thread has just deevolved into you trying to prove you somehow follow this team. I think just about everyone here is tired of pointing this out, and I'm tired of reading you retracting your previous bad viewpoints and then presenting even worse ones, peppered with information that everybody here knows. I'd like to hear the number of Grizz games you've actually watched this year.


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## UKfan4Life

fjkdsi said:


> ok i cant say i have watched burks and humphreys enough to account for their play so lets not talk about them
> d.jones better defender/worse offense than bonzi
> and remember offense and defense are equal so..
> i guess they are about equal..(both arent that good)


Rawse already pointed this out. This is one of the worst basketball arguments ever. Nice try, though. Well, not really. Bad try.



> ya
> i think he is havin a negative impact on the team
> bonzi, swift and l.wright are really killin us this year


Simply put, no they're not. Bonzi has been one of, if not THE, key player off of the bench for us this year. Ren has been one of our most consistent rebounders, and Swfit has stepped up considerably well since Pau has been out. Again, you don't watch this team enough to know this. You have NO argument.



> ya recently battier has been on a little of a slide
> but overall he improved his play greatly from hubie to fratello


Sort of. He improved, but not greatly.




> BC had a terrific game the other day, but besides that he hasnt really played much under Fratello
> except the last 15 games
> i havent really seen that much of those games so i cant speak
> but i saw the game against the clippers and the game against phoenix and he didnt play that well
> but i also saw the game against blazers and he had 5 assists and did a good job overall
> against boston i didnt really catch most of the game
> but 10-10 FTs
> thats one thing Brian has always done well
> he knows how to get himself to the line


Baha! He's been injured. He's been playing very well in almost every game. He's never ever hurt us and his three point shooting has been key since Fratello came in, unlike when Hubie was here. I don't think Brian even got a chance to set foot anywhere near the FT line when Hubie was here. Believe me, anyone here who lives in Memphis knows how Brian plays.



> anyway i'm sure you go to a lot of games and see all the games and maybe even know the players.
> but you are really not that good at evaluating talent
> actually instead of evaluating talent you are too easily swayed by the amount of minutes/hype/stats for each player


What the hell are you talking about? I have watched this team since this franchise has arrived in Memphis, and now you're saying I'm not good at evauluating talent? Um, excuse me, but what leads you to that conclusion? If I'm bad, you're GOD AWFUL at it. I actually watch this team. I actually go to the games. I actually pay attention and study the team. You are making things up. When have I even suggested stats in this? You're the only one between the 2 of us who has even brought up stats. I say B.C.'s three point shooting has been key for us since Fratello arrived, Stro has stepped up, Ren has been playign very well and consistently, Earl has offensive issues, especially in the half-court, Shane has been on a bit of downslide as of late, and you say I'm buying way too much into the stats? Hypocrisy is not a good thing, my friend. What the hell are you talking about?And the only reason I mentioned anything about minutes is because you're the one who brought it up, pal. And again, what the hell is this about hype? Seriously, where have I brought up hype in any of this? NONE of these guys are hyped. Not even our best player, Pau, gets a lot of hype, and you're saying I'm buying into the hype of guys like Earl Watson, Lorenzen, and Stromile? 



> Earl Watson is 10 times the defender JWill is, he is just as good of a passer, he is a good athlete, he knows how to lead the team, and he has really improved his shootin stroke this season


No **** Earl is 10 times the defender JWill is. I'm probably 10 times better of a defender as JWill. JWill may have a tough time guarding a bush. However, Earl is nowhere near as good as a passer. Nowhere near as good. If he knows how to lead this team, it sure isn't in our half-court offense. Yeah, he's a very good athlete, the man can jump out of the roof, but that doesn't help his offensive problems much. His stroke from downtown has improved tremendously, IMO, but that's not his problem. His problems are dribbling too much, inability to run our offense in the half-court, and decision making.



> he still has a turnover problem cuz he sometimes forces passes but just alone on his defensive improvement over Jwill he should be starting


Again, WHAT THE HELL? He still has tunrovers problems becuase he sometimes forces passes, so that makes him just as good of a passer as JWill? Right. Whatever you say. He hasn't improved defensively either. He's always been a very good defender and a better one than JWill, but it would be a joke to have him start over JWill. I prefer our team actually get off to a GOOD offensive start. Contrary to what I said before, it's not like JWill is totally incapable of playing defense, so he's not neccessarily killing us when we're on defense, and he's only helping us (a lot) on offense.

This WHOLE POST proves you know very little about the Grizzlies, not that you just don't watch them. Please, quit while you're ahead. Wait, you're not ahead. It's too late. But still, quit. Please.


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## ChitwoodStyle

FKJDSI go back under the rock you crawled out from and stop hating on the Grizz. How can't you see that Watson can't run an offense to save his life or that Wright is the main reason we have won without Gasol he has brought a toughness to our rebounding. 
What are you going to claim next that we should trade Gasol and maybe go with a lineup of:

Watson
Miller
Battier
Humphrey
Tsak

because you have cut out about everyone else.


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## SheriffKilla

well i've watched about 10 full grizzly games maybe a little more
and like 5 - 7 games not fully

the line up i think would be best for grizzlies is
Gasol
Cardinal
Battier
Miller
Watson

a lot of teams are suceedin going small so why not do it??

and lol, why the **** would i be hatin on the grizz if they are fav team in the league

i dont see how e.watson is unable to run a half court offense
for that matter, what offense/s do the grizzlies run?
do you even know....
i wanna make sure you can answer that before i continue this arguement


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## UKfan4Life

fjkdsi said:


> well i've watched about 10 full grizzly games maybe a little more
> and like 5 - 7 games not fully
> 
> the line up i think would be best for grizzlies is
> Gasol
> Cardinal
> Battier
> Miller
> Watson
> 
> a lot of teams are suceedin going small so why not do it??
> 
> and lol, why the **** would i be hatin on the grizz if they are fav team in the league
> 
> i dont see how e.watson is unable to run a half court offense
> for that matter, what offense/s do the grizzlies run?
> do you even know....
> i wanna make sure you can answer that before i continue this arguement


Rawse was right. It's funny how this whole thread has turned into you trying to prove that you actually know something about the Grizz.

First of all, this yet again proves you hardly know anything about the Grizz. Especially since Fratello came in, we've gone small a whole lot of times this season. Second, that's not exactly a small starting line up. Earl is taller than JWill (I think, not sure about that), Mike is 6'9, Shane is 6'5, B.C. isn't exactly big for a post guy, but Pau is 7'0 +.

Earl Watson has the inability to run our halfcourt offense ebcause he dribbles too much and has some terrible decision making problems. That's like the millionth time it's been said. 

Well, it's tough to say exactly what kind of offense the Grizzlies run. You can't actually say specifically unless you want to say a fastbreak kind. They still run some stuff from Hubie's system and they have only some things from Fratello's system implemented. I doubt you could even say what kind.

I don't get why you're still trying to argue. You have openly said you don't get to watch the Grizzlies much and it's blatantly obvious you don't study or pay attention to the team. You're arguments are very, very poor, yet here you are still somehow finding it in yourself to somehow continue this "argument".


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## HogsFan1188

I gots these cheeseburgers mayne!!!!


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## SheriffKilla

> Well, it's tough to say exactly what kind of offense the Grizzlies run. You can't actually say specifically unless you want to say a fastbreak kind. They still run some stuff from Hubie's system and they have only some things from Fratello's system implemented. I doubt you could even say what kind.




uh huh
ok... lol
im not even gonna look at this post anymore...
lol, you watched them supposedly all season and you dont know waht offense they run

the fast break kind...lol nice


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## UKfan4Life

fjkdsi said:


> uh huh
> ok... lol
> im not even gonna look at this post anymore...
> lol, you watched them supposedly all season and you dont know waht offense they run
> 
> the fast break kind...lol nice


I did not say THE fast break kind. I said A fast break kind. As in a run-n-gun style. We run whenever we can. Mind telling me specifically what kind of offense yourself? I doubt you could even describe it very accurately. You laugh at a general description I put, yet you have nothing to say about the offense yourself. Not surprising. I've been to almost all of their games at home, which is better than you can say. I LIVE IN MEMPHIS. And like most basketball fans in the city of Memphis, I follow the Grizzlies. You do not. Obviously. 

I told you why as well. They are still running a mixture of Hubie's system and Fratello's system. A lot of plays are keyed for specific players in our halfcourt, which is why Bonzi is such an important player off the bench. He is looked at to score. The Grizzlies run whenever possible, but if we're in the halfcourt, we run a nice mixture of going inside-out or running our shooters off screens without the ball to try and get them as good of shots as possible. If you've noticed, and I can go ahead and tell you that you haven't, since Pau has been out and Stro has been filling for him (yeah I know he's injured now), we've tried to run plays that are designed for Pau, and unsurprisingly, the result isn't the same with Stro in his place. If we're running plays for our guards, the offense consists of a whole lot of off-the-ball movement and screens.

I haven't missed a Grizzlies game all season. Even when the game was radio-only here, I managed to catch it on TV with League Pass, so don't tell me I don't know much, because you have been embarassed by posters in this thread other than just me. So, you know what kind of offense the Grizzlies run, specifically? Please, tell us before you stop posting in this thread. Should be a good laugh from a guy that hardly knows a thing about this team.

And BTW - You should've stopped posting in this thread a long time ago. Your arguments have been poor and torn apart. Amazing how you can admit you don't get to watch them that much yet still argue with people who get to see every game and study and analyze the team to a huge extent. Also funny how my comment on the offense is the only thing you've decided to point out, yet you can't explain it any better than I already have. You realize you've lost, and now you're looking for a reason to stop posting in the thread.


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