# Merged: Miami trades Marion + Banks for O'Neal + Moon



## -33-

Lots of rumors swirling on the net about Riles scouting Jermaine's knee to see if he's healthy. Here's a few clippings from the news:



> As Jermaine O’Neal and his troublesome right knee returned to the Toronto lineup on Friday night, perhaps no one studied the Toronto Raptors center more closely than Pat Riley. The Miami Heat president has been seriously considering a trade package for O’Neal that would send Shawn Marion to Toronto, multiple league sources said. Yet Riley first needs to see O’Neal’s progress before he’ll make the leap of faith on a trade.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...=aw-onealheat011709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns','111'



> Nevertheless, O’Neal, 30, was telling league associates as recently as Friday that he believes there’s a good chance he’ll end up in Miami. “If he’s healthy,” one source close to O’Neal said Friday, “it could very well happen.”





> League executives say that Riley has been determined to make a deal for a center, and has had substantive talks with Toronto GM Bryan Colangelo. No GM has seemed more determined to overhaul his team than Colangelo, and several league executives say he won’t hesitate to take Marion – whom he drafted in Phoenix – and his expiring $17.1 million contract for O’Neal. Miami would need to include another player, or two, to make the salaries match. O’Neal makes $21.3 million this season, and has a player’s option for $23 million for the next season. Colangelo has been willing to move everyone on his roster but Chris Bosh, Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani. In fact, the emergence of Bargnani, the 2006 No. 1 overall pick, has made an even stronger case for moving O’Neal. Before returning to the struggling Raptors on Friday, O’Neal had missed nine straight games with a sore right knee. He’s averaging 14 points and 7.2 rebounds a game.





> Riley “doesn’t seem as interested in cap space this summer,” said a rival executive who exchanged trade proposals with him recently. “He just seems concerned with having space in 2010.”


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...=aw-onealheat011709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns','112'



> Heat forward Shawn Marion said he is tired of the trade rumors. He vented today after practice and said he is happy in South Florida. "There's just so much speculation about me being traded," he said. "It's a distraction. "I like my teammates. I like the coaches. I like the organization. I like the city. I'm kind of tired of it. That's it. I'm done with it. What happens, happens."


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/heat/content/sports/epaper/2009/01/16/0116marion.html','115'



> Does such a deal make any sense? Sure. Jermaine O'Neal could provide some of what is lacking for the Heat. Get the Raptors to take Marcus Banks along with Marion (we heard they travel as a pair) and it would make more sense. Otherwise, there is an interesting season in progress, one that continues to simmer into something quite intriguing.





> Q: What are the chances of re-signing Marion during the offseason? -- James. A: I think any move with Marion should come over the summer. I think he could return, if he's agreeable to a one-year deal. But I think for a team coming off a 15-67 season and in the middle of contention, messing with chemistry at the season's midpoint could be treacherous. On the other hand, after the Feb. 19 trading deadline, Pat Riley loses all leverage with Shawn. And Pat just loves leverage.


http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/','116'



> As Michael Beasley develops - and defends - it reduces to the all-out need for Marion. Holding onto Marion for the rest of the season wouldn't be all that bad for the Heat, especially come playoff time. Parting with Marion at the trade deadline in any sort of lateral move that doesn't bring a starting big man and relieves the Heat's roster of either Marcus Banks or Mark Blount wouldn't be worthwhile. Hanging onto Marion for the rest of the season and having him walk away in the summer wouldn't necessarily cripple the Heat





> And Marion's departure alone in free agency won't necessarily make the Heat a major player in the 2009 class to be headlined by Carlos Boozer (a sign-and-trade or subsequent roster move would be needed because, while dumping Marion's salary would take the Heat significantly under luxury tax, it won't leave them far enough under the salary cap). Sometimes, it's better to leave good enough (as in playoff progress) alone. Something eventually has to give, because Marion's pride and sensitivity, agent Dan Fegan's reputation as being hard to bargain with and Riley's itchy trade finger might not be able to co-exist much longer. It's going to be an eventful few weeks, to say the least, leading to the Feb. 19 trade deadline.


http://blogs.herald.com/miami_heat/2009/01/the-fact-of-the.html','119'


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## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Hard to pass up if they take Banks on as well.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I guess it depends on his health but on paper it looks great. It solves our biggest problem.


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## Rather Unique

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

it would just really suck if we make the move and he gets hurt. (which is a bigger possibility than with most other players.)

We will see, its gonna be a heated late Jan. early Feb.


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## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Regardless of health problems, if they take Banks, it has to be done. It'd be more than worth the risk.


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## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'd do Marion+Banks for JO. If they don't take Banks I'm actually not interested. I'd like to see that go down, actually.


----------



## Ras

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Why would Toronto do it? As a fan of the team, I'd rather not see Marion in a Raptor uniform; I don't think he can bring them anything they need. They're probably not even going to play Banks either. When JO is healthy, he provides the team with inside defense, and somewhat of a toughness that they really lack.


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## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Healthy JO + Taking Banks = OK from me

That says a lot too. I've always hated JO, and for the past few seasons he's been a limping fathead. That said, he impressed me with the way he spoke after we played them at home this season, and he would, ideally, provide exactly what we're looking for.

Is it worth losing Marion's defense and rebounding? Could losing Marion for a guy that might spend most of his time in a blazer knock us out of playoff contention?

I think there are guys on the team that can carry Marion's load.


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## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If anything, he's still an excellent rebounder. His rebounds per minute are great and he would give us such a solid starting rotation for the playoffs.

Marion could save Toronto's season and get them into the playoffs. Then they could get some cap space this summer to sign a player.

I'm so anxious for this deal to go through.


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## southeasy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Hehh. this deal is iffy on Toronto's part. Marion does have ties here though, coming to play in Vince Carters old charity all-star game, i believe he had 63 or 53 points in 2000/2001 @ it.

he doesnt nescessarily provide us anything other then a solid defender & rebounder at the SF slot. what we really need is a slasher/creator/facilitator @ SF, and i don't think Marion can create for himself or others at all.. Really needs to be spoon-fed but i think Calderon ala Steve Nash might help.

Jermaine O'Neal/Will Solomon for Marion/Banks/Cook or D.Wright makes the most sense for Toronto. would need to be more then just Marion & Banks because we do not need 3 backup PG's on our roster.

but i guess Daequan is cemented in the Heat lineup no?

how far is Dorell from coming back, there was alot of talk about Toronto being interested in him over the years.. D.Wright can still put it all together.

would MIA do a JO/Solo for Matrix/Banks/Quan(Wright) deal?


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## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Daequan is out of the question. I don't think anyone would have a problem including Dorell though. We wind up weak at SF though. For that reason I think we probably include some sort of Moon/Magloire swap as he becomes rather redundant for Toronto. It's hard to balance salaries in a JO+Marion swap. 

Both teams are interested in 2010. Both teams are close to the luxury tax this year. With this trade, Toronto takes on $113,321 in 2008-2009 salary and $62,146 in 2010 salary, which is ultimately insignificant, which should be just enough to keep us under the tax. Filler has always been the issue, and I think this might finally resolve that. There seems to be little other way to balance out the 2009 luxury tax and 2010 capspace in a Jermaine O'Neal trade. I think we're probably going to see some variation of a JO to Miami trade go down, especially with it appearing that Alonzo Mourning is not going to make a comeback. 

*Miami Trades/Toronto Receives:*
Shawn Marion
James Jones
Dorell Wright
Marcus Banks

*Toronto Trades/Miami Receives:*
Jermaine O'Neal
Jason Kapono
Jamario Moon
Will Solomon

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...~2423&teams=14~14~14~14~28~28~28~28&te=&cash=

*Miami Heat lineup:*
PG: Mario Chalmers/Chris Quinn/Will Solomon
SG: Dwyane Wade/Daequan Cook
SF: Jason Kapono/Jamario Moon/Yakhouba Diawara
PF: Udonis Haslem/Michael Beasley/Mark Blount
C: Jermaine O'Neal/Joel Anthony/Jamaal Magloire

*Toronto Raptors lineup:*
PG: Jose Calderon/Marcus Banks/Roko Ukic
SG: Anthony Parker/James Jones
SF: Shawn Marion/Dorell Wright/Joey Graham
PF: Chris Bosh/Kris Humphries
C: Andrea Bargnani/Jake Voskuhl/Nathan Jawai


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## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Cant it be more simple? That's a lot of players, but I wouldn't mind the switches, especially now that I see Kapono is 2010 friendly.

Liking it more and more by the second actually. Would TO?


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## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If Toronto agreed to that, I would easily take it. I prefer Kapono to Jones, and picking up Moon would be a nice bonus. Wade to Moon lobs would be sweet.


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## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Jace said:


> Cant it be more simple? That's a lot of players, but I wouldn't mind the switches, especially now that I see Kapono is 2010 friendly.
> 
> Liking it more and more by the second actually. Would TO?


Kapono is not 2010 friendly. He has a player option for 6.64 million in the Summer of 2010. He only becomes 2010 friendly if we're sending out Banks' 4.8 million and Jones' guarantee of 1.8 million. Then he wouldn't hurt us.


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## Chan Ho Nam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

JO still has a few dozen games left in him


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

O Neal would be a really good addition imo.....it would even out our roster


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## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If Jermaine O'Neal played for us like he does against us, we'd be unbeatable. He is an automatic 25 point, 15 rebound, 3 block guy when playing Miami.


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## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Here's the story on this deal from the Sun sentinel. Pretty much the same thing as what Yahoo reported.


> Houston - The Heat is discussing a trade that would send Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to Toronto for forward/center Jermaine O'Neal but the deal is on hold as the Heat continues to monitor O'Neal's health.
> 
> Toronto President Bryan Colangelo would like to complete the deal soon. However, it may not happen until closer to the Feb. 19 trade deadline due to Heat president Pat Riley's concerns about O'Neal's immediate readiness with the Heat in contention for a playoff berth.


More here


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

And here's the story from the Miami Herald


> HOUSTON -- Toronto Raptors center Jermaine O'Neal reportedly believes he will soon be traded to Miami.
> 
> Heat forward Shawn Marion isn't sure how long he will remain in South Florida once the team finishes its seven-game trip that ends Sunday against Oklahoma City.
> 
> The one certainty in the equation Saturday was that the Heat continued to explore trade options with Toronto and at least two other teams on potential deals that could lead to Marion's departure in advance of the league's Feb. 19 trading deadline.
> 
> League sources directly involved with the Heat and Raptors confirmed Saturday that the teams are discussing a deal that would send Marion and reserve guard Marcus Banks to Toronto for O'Neal.


More here


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## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Jermaine atleast can score on a post up, and has a decent midrange jumper for a big man. More importantly, hed be a starting quality center on a team that desperately needs one. 

The side story? UD and JO on the same team would be hilarious :laugh:.

If its Marion/Banks for JO/filler id do it. The fact that hes 2010 friendly is just gravy.


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## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I wouldn't make this trade until JO comes back and shows he can play. There is no need to do the trade today when we have a month before the deadline.


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## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> The side story? UD and JO on the same team would be hilarious :laugh:.


Seriously, they seem to always be a step away from fighting every time they play against each other :laugh:


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## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

For sure, JO is injury prone - Marion is not - thats one thing that sticks in my mind...but at the end of the day, we are a much more complete team with JO in the middle.

Who becomes our starting 3 in the event that this goes down though? I guess if we pick up Jamario Moon as part of it he slips into that "defensive three" role?


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## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> For sure, JO is injury prone - Marion is not - thats one thing that sticks in my mind...but at the end of the day, we are a much more complete team with JO in the middle.
> 
> Who becomes our starting 3 in the event that this goes down though? I guess if we pick up Jamario Moon as part of it he slips into that "defensive three" role?


You know, with Marion's play of late I'm hoping we can pick up Moon in the deal. Asking for a Banks dump and Moon is a lot, but if there's anyone who can do it it's Pat Riley. Moon's an expiring, and it's not like he'd get as much PT behind Marion+Parker. Otherwise, we're stuck with a SF rotation of Diawara/James Jones/Dorell. JO+Moon for Marion+Banks. Get it done Riley!


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## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Im still hopeful that Dorell will come back OK. He would be Marion lite if we could get him back up to speed...but its a big ask.


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## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Wrong thread! EDIT*


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## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> Good start by Wade and Matrix.


Wrong thread.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Ira touched on this trade speculation in his blog on tonight's game. Much of the same again.



> - Yes, a Shawn Marion-Jermaine O'Neal deal makes sense if the Heat also can lose Marcus Banks (and his 2010-11 money) in the deal.
> 
> - But word is Pat Riley first wants to make sure he's getting a contributor in O'Neal, not someone who could bring this playoff bid to a halt.
> 
> - If the deal goes through, small forward will be an interesting proposition. The gut feeling is Yakhouba Diawara or James Jones would get the first look at the starting spot, because some of Michael Beasley's effectiveness would be lost at small forward.
> 
> - The irony is this: The Heat will have wound up trading Shaquille O'Neal for Jermaine O'Neal, who actually earns more money over the same span as Shaq. Right now, Shaq is better.
> 
> - While the inside word is the Heat wants to make sure Jermaine is healthy, one can't help but wonder if Marion's recent play also isn't creating some second-guessing. Saturday was his third consecutive double-double.
> 
> - One thing to know: Udonis Haslem said he is beyond the acrimony that had festered for years between himself and Jermaine. He said he now views O'Neal as someone making an honest effort to prolong his career.


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## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

The irony part is sort of sad. Its a shame that at this point, id probably rather Shaq (The Phoenix version, not the Miami Heat version we had the last season). 

Still, this is a deal that works well for both teams...I think if we can get Kapono or Moon involved for JO for Marion/Banks - we should pull the trigger.

PG - Chalmers/Quinn
SG - Wade/Cook
SF - Kapono/JJ/Wright/Diawara
PF - Haslem/Beasley
C - O'Neal/Magloire/Anthony


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## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Now Josh Howard's name is being throw around, which makes NO SENSE.



> The idea that Miami would send Shawn Marion to Toronto before the Feb. 19 trading deadline is a natural on multiple levels and, according to one insider, has been "circulating for awhile." But ongoing discussions toward a possible Marion-for-Jermaine O'Neal trade, according to NBA front-office sources, are not the only talks Pat Riley is having these days.
> 
> Two obvious factors that favor Toronto:
> 
> 1. Marion could slot in between Raps cornerstones Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani and provide the clear upgrade at the wing position that Toronto president Bryan Colangelo -- who drafted Marion in Phoenix in 1999 -- has been seeking via trade for weeks.
> 
> 2. O'Neal, if healthy, could address one of Riley's biggest needs, since the Heat have no dependable center. Better yet, O'Neal carries a hefty contract that expires after the 2009-10 season, whether or not he can shake his persistent knee troubles. The contract expires just in time for the summer, when Riley will be trying to re-sign Dwyane Wade and put a marquee player next to him. (Sacramento, for the record, could swing this sort of Marion deal as well, by sending Miami pass-happy center Brad Miller and little-used Kenny Thomas, both of whom possess contracts expiring after the '09-10 season.)
> 
> However ...
> 
> Plugged-in sources say that Riley wants to see how O'Neal, who only returned to the Raptors' lineup Friday, holds up physically in a handful of games before taking the discussions any further. And as stated above, sources indicate that there are other teams in contention for Marion, most notably Dallas in a trade that would feature Josh Howard going to Miami for Marion.
> 
> Yet it remains to be seen (a) whether Miami ultimately decides that it would rather gamble on O'Neal's vulnerable right knee in spite of his Toronto's struggles because quality centers are harder to find and (b) whether Dallas is prepared to surrender Howard for Marion and risk losing Marion without compensation this summer.
> 
> Howard obviously isn't a center, but the 28-year-old would appear to fit better alongside Wade and rookie Michael Beasley than Marion, since he wouldn't cut into Beasley's minutes at power forward like Marion sometimes does.
> 
> Howard also has a contract that fits into Miami's long-range plans, with a salary of $10.4 million this season, $11.4 million next season and a team option for 2010-11 at $12.3 million. Acquiring Howard now would give the Heat almost a season and a half to gauge how he functions as a Wade sidekick, with no obligation to slice into their future salary-cap space if they don't like how it looks.
> 
> Because its original three-way deal with Charlotte and Oklahoma City featuring Raymond Felton unraveled last week, Dallas still has Jerry Stackhouse's virtual expiring contract ($7 million this season, only $2 million guaranteed next season) to facilitate such a swap. A package of Howard and Stackhouse works for Marion cap-wise.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-090117-18


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## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

While theres no doubt that Josh Howard would fill that 2nd/3rd scorer role for us, be a good defensive player, and fit well next to Wade...it doesnt fix our biggest need, which is big bodies down low.

Id rather JO/Moon than Howard and a bought out Stackhouse.


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## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

It'd be nice to have Howard in there at the 3, but we really need size, we get killed nightly by most centers, and it'd be even worse in the playoffs.


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## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If we could get Josh Howard for Marion, I'd run with it. I'd run very very far away and very quickly at that. This team has longterm holes everywhere but SG+PF (two deep at both positions). We'd fill one at SF with Howard.


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## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I agree about Howard. I posted that exact same trade here a couple of weeks ago. I sent it to Ira, and he didn't respond, which is pretty unusual. There have been times this season where its clear we need another off-the-dribble scorer, and Howard fits that role to a T. No, it wouldn't make us perfect. But we'd be playing the same, somewhat gimicky, small-ball we're having moderate success with, but with a 3 who actually plays like a 3, and at a legit All-Star level. If that trade is made and the Heat are barring Zo's comeback, I'd imagine they have another player in mind that can help the team out in the middle.


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## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

With Wade/Howard/Bease without a solid C we would look like the Wizards 2.0 but slightly better because Wade is far ahead of Gil.

I don't like it.


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## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Josh Howard would be really nice to have, but I'd rather rent Jermaine O'Neal for a couple years.


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## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'd rather not just upgrade Marion, we should be looking for a whole new player.


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## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Like Jace said, getting Howard would fill that huge whole we have as a 2nd scorer. 

When does Howard's deal expire?


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## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I believe he is in the same group as LeBron, Wade, etc.


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## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

just for news

JON and Kapono have not played in Toronto's game today....... something seems imminent. I dont expect Marion to play tonight


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If Miami can get Moon/ Kapono this deal gets a lot better.


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## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

He expires in 2011, but he has a team option for the 2010-2011 season for $11,835,000. Basically, we decide if we want him to expire in 2010 or not. If a player of Josh Howard's caliber is available (a legit half court All-Star SF), we need to jump on it. Part of our problem is that Marion can't shoot. That would be solved with Josh Howard. I don't see why Dallas would go for it, though.


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## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Marion hasnt been anything special this season but at-least hes been on the court. If J.O.'s knee falls apart for the umpteenth time we can kiss the playoffs goodbye!


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## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Ruff Draft said:


> If Miami can get Moon/ Kapono this deal gets a lot better.


moon would be wonderful- like Marion light who we could plug in and he is a cheap player

Kapono is iffy to me, since he actually makes more than Banks in 2010/2011. He would fit this team well (and be more productive than Banks), but we would actually be lessening our cap space for that very important off season.


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## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> Marion hasnt been anything special this season but at-least hes been on the court. If J.O.'s knee falls apart for the umpteenth time we can kiss the playoffs goodbye!


I do agree that JO is a risk, but we really need the big guy......

Joel is the worst starter in the NBA, and we consistently get killed by teams with size. Its worth JO's injury risk imo. 

I am not going to be disillusioned by what JON has become. He is a 13 and 7 jump shooting big with injury issues. However, he is a legit big man


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## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

That's why we'd need to include James Jones. He's got a $1,856,000 guarantee in 2010-2011, so if we included him we'd only be losing like 56k in capspace, an insignificant amount. It's interesting that Will Solomon isn't playing either (though Moon is). Solomon might be filler. To me, this screams

JO+Kapono+Solomon

for 

Marion+Banks+Jones 

But we take on 1 million in this trade (luxury tax). So I think we need to get it over already and work in a Dorell for Moon swap to balance salaries. :yes:


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## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> Marion hasnt been anything special this season but at-least hes been on the court. If J.O.'s knee falls apart for the umpteenth time we can kiss the playoffs goodbye!





reHEATed said:


> I do agree that JO is a risk, but we really need the big guy......
> 
> Joel is the worst starter in the NBA, and we consistently get killed by teams with size. Its worth JO's injury risk imo.
> 
> I am not going to be disillusioned by what JON has become. He is a 13 and 7 jump shooting big with injury issues. However, he is a legit big man


That's the risk you take...

If JO can come here and play well, we're the 4th best team in the conference, with a much better shot at making noise against CLE/BOS/ORL. Without a center, we can make the playoffs, but we won't make it far against those teams.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Magloire returning to Toronto for Moon would be mighty nice too.


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## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Flash is the Future said:


> That's why we'd need to include James Jones. He's got a $1,856,000 guarantee in 2010-2011, so if we included him we'd only be losing like 56k in capspace, an insignificant amount. It's interesting that Will Solomon isn't playing either (though Moon is). Solomon might be filler. To me, this screams
> 
> JO+Kapono+Solomon
> 
> for
> 
> Marion+Banks+Jones
> 
> But we take on 1 million in this trade (luxury tax). So I think we need to get it over already and work in a Dorell for Moon swap to balance salaries. :yes:


Solomon did play at the end of the half....just a couple minutes


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## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



reHEATed said:


> I do agree that JO is a risk, but we really need the big guy......
> 
> Joel is the worst starter in the NBA, and we consistently get killed by teams with size. Its worth JO's injury risk imo.
> 
> I am not going to be disillusioned by what JON has become. He is a 13 and 7 jump shooting big with injury issues. However, he is a legit big man


Im with you on the big man thing and thats why we should go after Boozer. We can rent him for 1 season to see if he'll finally stay healthy and show up for the playoffs. If he does we can re-sign him and if he doesnt we simply let him walk and wait for 2010.

Miami trades - Marion/Haslem

Utah trades - Boozer/AK-47

This move lets the Jazz start Millsap at PF, and Sloan gets to drop the 2 players he cant stand for 2 guys that play his kind of basketball.

C - Boozer/Zo
PF - Beasley/Anthony
SF - AK-47/Jones
SG - Wade/Cook
PG - Chalmers/Quinn


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If we can dump Blount and/or Banks, we have to use that opportunity even if it costs us Marion


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Hmm. That's interesting. But I'm still trying to put a deal together from that. JO+Kapono make 27 million total. Marion+Banks+Jones make 26 million total (Banks+Jones included so we break even in 2010 after we take back Kaponovich). We need an additional swap where we send out 1 million so that we don't go into the tax. We could either just add in one of Magloire/Joel/Diawara/Quinn. Or we'd need to swap Dorell for a cheaper player. Or we're overlooking something, and Riley might be trying to get them to take Marion+Blount+Banks for JO+Kapono+filler.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



DQ for 3 said:


> If we can dump Blount and/or Banks, we have to use that opportunity even if it costs us Marion


Blount doesn't really need to be dumped though. He expires in 2010. He'd make great filler in a trade if we need it, but that's about it. Banks is the guy we really need to dump.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> Im with you on the big man thing and thats why we should go after Boozer. We can rent him for 1 season to see if he'll finally stay healthy and show up for the playoffs. If he does we can re-sign him and if he doesnt we simply let him walk and wait for 2010.
> 
> Miami trades - Marion/Haslem
> 
> Utah trades - Boozer/AK-47
> 
> This move lets the Jazz start Millsap at PF, and Sloan gets to drop the 2 players he cant stand for 2 guys that play his kind of basketball.
> 
> C - Boozer/Zo
> PF - Beasley/Anthony
> SF - AK-47/Jones
> SG - Wade/Cook
> PG - Chalmers/Quinn


Boozer>>>Marion
AK47>>>Haslem

Plus, we'd probably be spending all of our 2010 capspace on Boozer+AK47, which I don't really want to do. And do you really want to watch a Boozer+Beasley frontcourt on defense?


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Flash is the Future said:


> Hmm. That's interesting. But I'm still trying to put a deal together from that. JO+Kapono make 27 million total. Marion+Banks+Jones make 26 million total (Banks+Jones included so we break even in 2010 after we take back Kaponovich). We need an additional swap where we send out 1 million so that we don't go into the tax. We could either just add in one of Magloire/Joel/Diawara/Quinn. Or we'd need to swap Dorell for a cheaper player. Or we're overlooking something, and Riley might be trying to get them to take Marion+Blount+Banks for JO+Kapono+filler.


Marion + Blount + Banks would be unreal...

If he pulls that, Obama should hire Riles for foreign negotiations


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

hmm wow, I didn't know this section of the forums was very active. I normally post HEAT stuff in the official HEAT website forums on nba.com, guess I am coming here more often now  I've been been posting on that heat forum since 2005

---

IF they take Marion + Banks, I say do it. We very badly need a big. and Jermaine can actually score the ball very well. if we don't like him, his conract is up before 2010 anyway.

I say do it


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

wait a second, James Jones in the deal?

but...but.. I like him =( I know he has been injured, but I really like his size and his 3 point ability, i think he could be our poor man's james posey lol.

i don't like the idea of trading james jones, why would we do that?


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Flash is the Future said:


> Boozer>>>Marion
> AK47>>>Haslem
> 
> Plus, we'd probably be spending all of our 2010 capspace on Boozer+AK47, which I don't really want to do. And do you really want to watch a Boozer+Beasley frontcourt on defense?


It would be an experiment for half the season and the playoffs to see if Boozer fits here. If he doesnt we let him walk and wait for 2010.

I dont know why everyone seems to think that Bosh, Amare and Kobe will be leaving their teams when they can pay them way more then anyone else can. Bron is the only one who will be getting a bonus from Nike for playing in a big market.

Boozer can be had!


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I look at it this way. If we keep Marion and possibly make the playoffs then good. But we cant kid ourselves into thinking we will actually contend for anything. We'll be like the Dolphins. Yeah, everyone was excited to see them back in the playoffs but then, reality quickly set in.

So then we go into free agency this summer. Marion is most likely gone. If Riley is so keen on having a lot of money open for 2010 then that means he would only want to offer 1yr deals or deals with the 2nd year being a team option. No good players would take those deals. 

But if we're able to trade Marion for a player or two that are good and that have contracts that go until 2010 then we wont have that problem in free agency next summer. And it would take away from Riley thinking he needed to add a big time free agent this upcoming summer and takes away the cap for the following summer. This depends on who we possibly get back but if we're able to unload Banks in that deal then that could make a huge difference in 2010. I know its 2 seasons away but it would be all worth it for that summer.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ChrisRichards said:


> wait a second, James Jones in the deal?
> 
> but...but.. I like him =( I know he has been injured, but I really like his size and his 3 point ability, i think he could be our poor man's james posey lol.
> 
> i don't like the idea of trading james jones, why would we do that?


I personally would want him included because he's guaranteed 1.856 million dollars in 2010, and if we swap JJ+Banks for Kapono we break even in capspace in that very important offseason.


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

if Jones can be healthy, i'd rather have him than Kapono, regardless of the 1.8mil


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

so would you guys want Banks/James Jones or Kapono?

I personally would want Banks/Jones

now, if we could include Banks without taking back Kapono's contract, that would be awesome.


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

"Currently active Users Viewing this thread :

HEATLUNATIC

i THINK reHEATed also 

I know you guys from official heat forums? you guys remember WileyRiley?


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



reHEATed said:


> so would you guys want Banks/James Jones or Kapono?
> 
> I personally would want Banks/Jones
> 
> now, if we could include Banks without taking back Kapono's contract, that would be awesome.


i agree. we let Kapono walk a few seasons ago because Toronto gave him a horrible contract 

I think it was like 6mil a year? crazy. it would suck if we end up with that contract in the end anyway

however, if we could give them Blunt lol for Kapono......heh heh heh


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Too bad Jermaine O'Neal isnt playing today. I hope it isnt just a coaches decision cause I would have liked to see how he did against Shaq.


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

reports say that the trade is waiting on Riley's approval of JO's health.

why on earth wouldn't they play him today? we need to see him in action a little.


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ChrisRichards said:


> reports say that the trade is waiting on Riley's approval of JO's health.
> 
> why on earth wouldn't they play him today? we need to see him in action a little.


I was thinking the same thing

however, that stuff was said pretty much before Yao went 12-12 against us. I think what probably happened is Riley thought he could wait and see on Jermaine's knee, than saw how bad Joel really is against legit bigs, and said "f that, lets just complete this".


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ChrisRichards said:


> reports say that the trade is waiting on Riley's approval of JO's health.
> 
> why on earth wouldn't they play him today? we need to see him in action a little.


Because if he gets re-injured, then you have no deal left.


----------



## southeasy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

maybe he's already traded and thats why the DNP?......

Kapono isnt playing either and he's not injured.....

JON+Kapono for Marion/Banks/Jones.

looks like it might be going down.

i'll replace Kapono w/ a healthy Jones any day..... i like Banks, but toronto doesn't like having 3 backup PG's.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Can we get some info on J.O.'s knee from Raptor fans?

Is it bone on bone at this point or what?


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Anyone watching that game? Have the Raptors announcers mentioned anything about them not playing?


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I watched a little earlier

no reason was given for JO, and Kapono is "ill"- stomach virus or flu is what they said


----------



## kirk_2003

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

JO's knee's are fine.. its just like glass though.. anything can happen to the knee and he'll be out a week or two.. announcers doesnt know either.. they were saying maybe a trade? haha.


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Kapono is Wade's favorite target, regardless of contract.


----------



## Mr_B

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Since I don't watch much heat games , can somebody tell me why you heat fans are so down on Banks?


----------



## Diophantos

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Mr_B said:


> Since I don't watch much heat games , can somebody tell me why you heat fans are so down on Banks?


He's very turnover-prone and a poor passer with no point guard instincts. He's a streaky shooter (that's putting it kindly) with bad shot selection.

On the upside, he's very strong and athletic, capable of some nice drives and finishes. He's also a good man defender at times due to his combination of strength and speed.

Overall though, his occasional bursts of offense aren't worth the total lapses on that end (turnovers, bad shots, blown fast breaks).


----------



## Mr_B

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Diophantos said:


> He's very turnover-prone and a poor passer with no point guard instincts. He's a streaky shooter (that's putting it kindly) with bad shot selection.
> 
> On the upside, he's very strong and athletic, capable of some nice drives and finishes. He's also a good man defender at times due to his combination of strength and speed.
> 
> Overall though, his occasional bursts of offense aren't worth the total lapses on that end (turnovers, bad shots, blown fast breaks).


Thanks, well on the bright side for us he won't get much PT when Jose comes back


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

what the hell, SHHHH DIOPHANTES!!!!!!! SHHHH

Diophantes is just sleepy, Mr. B. don't you worry about Marcus Banks.

Marcus Banks is a great player, oh great shooter, great defender, amazing skills. he can help your team very much 

Go back to your Toronto media and let them know Marcus Banks, very very good player. Make deal now! We give you great player Marcus Banks, you give us so-so player Kapono and maybe add Jamario Moon.

good deal for u, we love u long time


----------



## southeasy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Lol.




Banks sounds like a slightly more athletic Will Solomon.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Jermaine didnt play because he was resting his knee. I guess he'll play tomorrow.


> Jermaine O’Neal, who returned from a nine-game absence Friday, rested his sore knee. O’Neal is probable for Monday’s game at Atlanta.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

He needs to rest after coming back from injury?

...


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

With JO looking more and more fragile, I think we're probably going to be able to slip Banks into the deal without taking back Kaponovich. 

Jermaine O'Neal
Jamario Moon
Will Solomon

for

Shawn Marion
Marcus Banks
Joel Anthony

This looks really solid. The basic premise is Marion+Banks for JO. Joel+Moon is a swap to balance rosters (while giving the Raptors a Canadian shotblocker). Solomon is just filler (and to balance the rosters after Miami loses Banks at PG. The salary is almost dead even (Toronto takes on like 13k). I think one of my two proposals is going to happen. :yes:

PG: Mario Chalmers/Chris Quinn/Will Solomon
SG: Dwyane Wade/Daequan Cook/Yakhouba Diawara
SF: Jamario Moon/James Jones/Dorell Wright
PF: Udonis Haslem/Michael Beasley
C: Jermaine O'Neal/Jamaal Magloire/Mark Blount

PG: Jose Calderon/Marcus Banks/Roko Ukic
SG: Anthony Parker/Jason Kapono
SF: Shawn Marion/Joey Graham 
PF: Chris Bosh/Kris Humphries/Nathan Jawai
C: Andrea Bargnani/Joel Anthony/Jake Voskuhl


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Jace said:


> He needs to rest after coming back from injury?
> 
> ...


maybe they didnt want him to play on back to back nights so soon?:whoknows:


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If I'm a Heat fan, I'm really liking the look of the team with Moon. I like that kid, mad athleticism.


----------



## kirk_2003

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Banks sounds like Will Solomon.. 
Moon had mad athleticism but he has limitations.. if we can get something BC should look to package him with another player or two to get a more help..


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Maybe the Raptors didn't want Jermaine to go up against Shaq and Amare, they make him look bad or something


----------



## paragraph 2.0

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



SunSentinel said:


> Pat Riley: O'Neal deal not imminent
> 
> By Michael Cunningham
> 
> SunSentinel.com
> 
> 6:52 PM EST, January 18, 2009
> 
> OKLAHOMA CITY
> 
> Heat President Pat Riley, in his first public comments about a potential trade for Toronto's Jermaine O'Neal, cautioned that the deal is not imminent.
> 
> While not denying interest in O'Neal, Riley said in a team statement released Sunday that reports about the potential trade were premature.
> 
> "It's typical this time of the year in the NBA that people put the cart before the horse," Riley said. "Whoever is saying that is putting the cart before the horse."
> 
> The Heat is considering sending forward Shawn Marion and guard Marcus Banks to the Raptors for O'Neal. But Riley is concerned about O'Neal's immediate availability after he recently missed nine games with a sore knee.
> 
> O'Neal, 30, played 17 minutes in Toronto's loss at Indiana Friday night, his first game since Dec. 29. The Raptors held him out of Sunday's loss to Phoenix to save him for Monday's game at Atlanta.
> 
> Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo would like to trade O'Neal as soon as possible. However, with the Heat in playoff contention, Riley seemingly is in no hurry to make a deal for O'Neal.
> 
> The 6-foot-11 O'Neal would provide the Heat a sorely needed low-post presence. His contract expires after the 2009-10 season, which would allow the Heat to maintain financial flexibility for a deep 2010 free-agent class that could include Heat guard Dwyane Wade.
> 
> O'Neal, a five-time All-Star, has career averages of 14.3 points, 7.7 rebounds and 1.9 blocks. He has played no more than 51 games in three of the last four seasons due to various injuries.
> 
> Marion, 30, has yet to find a comfortable fit with the Heat since arriving in a trade with Phoenix last season. His contract expires after this season.
> 
> Banks, who came along with Marion from Phoenix, hasn't been much of a factor for the Heat despite its need for a veteran point guard. His contract, which has two years and more than $9 million remaining, would allow the deal to work under NBA rules.
> 
> Marion out
> 
> Marion was a late scratch from the Heat's game against Oklahoma on Sunday. The Heat said he aggravated his left groin during the 93-86 loss at Houston Saturday night.
> 
> Michael Cunningham can be reached at [email protected].


Sure Pat. We believe you. You've never surprised us with trades before :whistling:


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

im just excited...just the thought of getting rid of banks contract is the clincher for me!! it pretty much locks DWADE and another star in 2010...i dont care what happens till then...the window re-opens 2010 which is when we will be legitimate contenders again


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Marion's not playing? :laugh:


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

there is def. something going on...marion a late scratch? i love riley...he's such a decietful, tricky , mind boggling, secretive, human bein!!!


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I see Marion's "injured" :laugh:


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Subtle Pat, real subtle 

Bye Matrix!


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

if a deal isnt imminent, the conincidences really stacked up today with marion, JO, and Kapono all late scratches


yea, for some reason I think Riley is bs-ing us


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> there is def. something going on...marion a late scratch? i love riley...he's such a decietful, tricky , mind boggling, secretive, human bein!!!


lol yeah, he's the best GM in the NBA imo.

reminds me of this article http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8786-grand-daddy-shaq-to-phoenix-did-pat-riley-con-the-suns

Riley, the salesman calls Steve Kerr, GM of the Phoenix Suns. Steve being a new and inexperienced GM, would be easy prey for Rile’s slick way.

The conversation probably went something like this.

Riley: “Steve, I just heard that Memphis gave Pau to the Lakers. That’s not fair, there ought to be a law against that stuff. You guys were on the brink of winning your first title and some schmo just took it away from you. We’ll I’m here to remedy it. I can change all of that for you.”

Kerr: “How, Pat? Is Wade available?”


Riley: “Oh, this is way better than Wade. Can you spell Dynasty? We're talking titles here, at least three years for the Suns.

We, the Heat are willing to part, are you sitting down Steve? With the greatest player of all time, 14 times an All-Star, Regular Season MVP, and MVP three times in the finals, that’s Finals Steve.”

Kerr: “Shaq?!”

Riley: “That’s right. You’re probably thinking, why would Rile’s part with such a Super Star, and how could YOU, afford such a valuable piece like Shaq? Don't worry Steve, that’s the easy part. What’s important is, you reclaiming the lead in the West and bringing that Trophy home.”

Kerr: “But I heard Shaq was hurting.”

Riley: “Don’t believe all that stuff you read in the papers and NBA injury reports. Shaq was just playing possum so we can get a lottery pick. He’s in the best shape of his career.

Steve, you hate the Lakers don’t you? And you want to win the title? Then Shaq is the perfect fit for your system. He's just what you need, right?

Trust me Steve, just give us that malcontent, Marion, and we’ll take Banks lousy contract off your hands, then Rile’s will make it alright for Stevie.”

Kerr: “I don’t know Pat, It sounds really good, but I’ve got to talk to the owner.”

Riley: “Steve, this deal won’t last. Dallas is trying to get him right now as we speak. You delay, and you might miss an opportunity of a lifetime.

You're hurting my feelings. Its only because you’re my friend that I’m willing to give my buddy, Steve Kerr, such a smoking deal.

What do you say Steve, have we we got a deal?"

Kerr: “Yeah, let's do it! Send the papers over for me to sign”

Riley: “That's my boy Steve, you won’t regret it. Guaranteed Championship! And can we say, Exec of the year?!”


----------



## paragraph 2.0

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Flash is the Future said:


> Marion's not playing? :laugh:


He's "injured" which likely means Riley's robbing someone at gunpoint :whistling:


----------



## southeasy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

O'Neal/Kapono & Marion/Banks/Jones


seems like a good bet now. is JJ injured?

bringing back the old PHX to T.O.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



southeasy said:


> O'Neal/Kapono & Marion/Banks/Jones
> 
> 
> seems like a good bet now. is JJ injured?
> 
> bringing back the old PHX to T.O.


No, JJ had been out the entire season with a torn ligament in his shooting wrist and just recently came back, but hasnt gotten much playing time.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Well I hope this gets done. JO when he wasn't hurt showed flashes of his old self with some explosive drives to the basket. If he can stay relatively healthy at the end of the season he can be a contributer in the playoffs.

I'm not too excited about getting Marion. I hope this isn't the end of moves for Colangelo this season.

BTW, is there anything positive that Banks can do? I know he can't shoot and can't pass, but can he defend or drive?


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Can you imagine if we have Wade/Cook/Kapono/Beasley/JO on the floor at the same time...that team would shoot the lights out.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



seifer0406 said:


> BTW, is there anything positive that Banks can do? I know he can't shoot and can't pass, but can he defend or drive?


Defense and driving to the basket are the two things he does best. And at times, he can hit the 3. But he isnt a consistent shooter. And he usually comes up with some very dumb turnovers.

What sucks with him is that he has all the physical tools, which is why he got that deal in the 1st place, but mentally, he just doesnt have it.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Moon has potential to end his career averaging close if not more than Marion. If Riley can grab him, it's a must.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Ruff Draft said:


> Moon has potential to end his career averaging close if not more than Marion. If Riley can grab him, it's a must.


People are really over rating Moon. Moon is already 28 and only 2 years younger than Marion. The guy is actually playing worse this year than last year, leading some to believe that he has already peaked as a basketball player. If a good coach can come in and get him to focus on the things he does best instead of trying to be a do-it-all like Pippen, he might be a borderline starter in the league if not a 6th-7th guy on the team.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Marion -->

1. Good defender (team + man)
2. Good rebounder
3. Good fit for a motion offence with a PG like Calderon

4. Can't shoot
5. Can't create off the dribble
6. Gets complacent and disappears at times


Banks -->

1. Good man defender
2. Good at driving to the rim
3. Good hustler and a guy who you can bring off the bench (he's used to it)

4. Poor decision maker and play maker
5. Poor finisher
6. Turn-over prone as he tries to do too much


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'm all for a Marion/Banks --> JO swap btw.

The O'Neal/Kapono --> Marion/Banks/Jones trade southeasy mentioned, I'm also cool with. I'm assuming Kapono & Jones' contracts are just about the same?


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Kapono's is 3 years long and Jones' comes off the books in 2010.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



NewAgeBaller said:


> I'm all for a Marion/Banks --> JO swap btw.
> 
> The O'Neal/Kapono --> Marion/Banks/Jones trade southeasy mentioned, I'm also cool with. I'm assuming Kapono & Jones' contracts are just about the same?


Kapono's is worse than JJ's. He's owed 6.6 million in 2010. JJ is only owed 1.856 million in 2010.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



sMaK said:


> Kapono's is 3 years long and Jones' comes off the books in 2010.





Flash is the Future said:


> Kapono's is worse than JJ's. He's owed 6.6 million in 2010. JJ is only owed 1.856 million in 2010.


Ah right. I thought they were both owed near the MLE in '10 anyway..

Well I'd much rather not take on Kapono then, but I guess Toronto would really like us to?


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Thats my guess. Kapono is a good fit with Wade though...but hes kinda nullified to an extent if we have Cook and JJ still.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



NewAgeBaller said:


> Ah right. I thought they were both owed near the MLE in '10 anyway..
> 
> Well I'd much rather not take on Kapono then, but I guess Toronto would really like us to?


Kapono was another bad signing by Colangelo and he's not getting much burn in Toronto. Joey Graham has been playing better and he gives the Raptors the much needed athleticism on the wing.

Hopefully Banks can make something out of himself and stay out of trouble off the court. I like James Jones but I don't know if he can get any PT with guys like Moon/Graham already on the team.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Thats assuming JJ is part of the trade.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Just thinkin, we will have an awesome shot blocking team with Wade and JO anchoring. Anthony can block also.


----------



## southeasy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

JO for Matrix/Banks works under the cap, but adding anything from the t.o. side would bring into tax territories and not be completed.

JO + _if_ Kapono is involved, there definitely needs to be a 3rd player from the Heat side, which most likely would have to be JJ (who becomes rudundant w/ Kapono) rather then Daequan or Dorell who is injured(i'd prefer dorell over JJ from toronto perspective)

as opposed to guys like Solomon or Magloire/Anthony from the Heat side w/ the small contracts. i don't see Moon being traded + JO for what i think would be overpaying for an expiring Marion & what would be our 3rd backup PG w/ a contract through 2010 in Marcus Banks.


JO for Marion/Banks alone, or possibly Solomon might be the most straight up way to make this deal.


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> Just thinkin, we will have an awesome shot blocking team with Wade and JO anchoring. Anthony can block also.


I dont want to see Anthony touch a heat court any time ever again if we acquire JO... and than hopefully Zo

hell, I dont know why he sees much of it now anyway.....Magloire is better.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Seeing as Marion, Banks, Jones, JO and Kapono were all DNP's last night, this looks pretty imminent.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

How about a front court of Magloire at C, and JO at PF? We'd go from a really small team, to a big and physical team pretty quickly.

Anyway, we all might be getting ahead of ourselves a bit


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Jermaine O'Neal at center would be great. People need to think about this team just a bit if we get JO'Neal and Kapono...

We'll have a sick inside-outside game with Wade and O'Neal. Wade could take some pressure off of Jermaine O'Neal by driving and kicking and opening up opportunities for O'Neal. I am sure all Heat haters will immediately say, "Oh, teams are about to pack the lane more than anything you've ever seen against the Heat. Still won't put them over the top."

Well, guys, if we pick up Kapono, we may have the best cadre of shooters in the league from outside. Chalmers, Quinn, Cook, Diawara, AND Kapono. That is four guys who have been draining threes like nothing all year and now you add Kapono who with Wade was straight Vladimir Kaponovich. Absolutely noone in the league will be able to pack the lane with the Heat having atleast two sharp shooters on the court at all times between the PG and SF spots. Throw in Beasley at PF, Jermaine O'Neal is basically guaranteed one on one whenever he wants it down low. Imagine if James Jones somehow wasn't in the trade...

Guys, the more I think about it, the more we HAVE to make this trade. Our team has the perfect supporting cast for Wade and JO'Neal. Not only will we have those sharp shooters, but we have tons odf role players that would fit perfectly. Haslem would have a lot more free room at PF and could be in a role that fit him more comftorably(High post where he can spot up.)while rebounding the heck out of the ball with his offensive responisbility lifted. Jamaal Magloire could allow JO to kick over at PF at times if he wanted. Joel Anthony gives us a solid defender who for stretches could allow JO off the court without giving us a defensive liability down low. Beasey could stretch the court a bit and give JO the post by himself.

I just love this trade. Jermaine O'Neal is only 30, he has some gas left in the tank. Not a ton, but some. We're a good enough team we could rest him on second nights of back to backs or against weaker teams. It is very possible we could enter the playoffs with JO very fresh. And a fresh JO is always a threat tp drop 20 with 8 or 9 rebounds plus a couple blocks.

Now, add a career best Dwyane Wade to the mix... We're not going to be competing for a 1 or 2 seed, but no reason we can't push Cavs or Celtics to the wall. I'll take a hot wade over a hot LeBron, Paul Pierce, or hot anybody.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Fantastic post, your points have made me want this trade a lot more.


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Smithian said:


> Jermaine O'Neal at center would be great. People need to think about this team just a bit if we get JO'Neal and Kapono...
> 
> We'll have a sick inside-outside game with Wade and O'Neal. Wade could take some pressure off of Jermaine O'Neal by driving and kicking and opening up opportunities for O'Neal. I am sure all Heat haters will immediately say, "Oh, teams are about to pack the lane more than anything you've ever seen against the Heat. Still won't put them over the top."
> 
> Well, guys, if we pick up Kapono, we may have the best cadre of shooters in the league from outside. Chalmers, Quinn, Cook, Diawara, AND Kapono. That is four guys who have been draining threes like nothing all year and now you add Kapono who with Wade was straight Vladimir Kaponovich. Absolutely noone in the league will be able to pack the lane with the Heat having atleast two sharp shooters on the court at all times between the PG and SF spots. Throw in Beasley at PF, Jermaine O'Neal is basically guaranteed one on one whenever he wants it down low. Imagine if James Jones somehow wasn't in the trade...
> 
> Guys, the more I think about it, the more we HAVE to make this trade. Our team has the perfect supporting cast for Wade and JO'Neal. Not only will we have those sharp shooters, but we have tons odf role players that would fit perfectly. Haslem would have a lot more free room at PF and could be in a role that fit him more comftorably(High post where he can spot up.)while rebounding the heck out of the ball with his offensive responisbility lifted. Jamaal Magloire could allow JO to kick over at PF at times if he wanted. Joel Anthony gives us a solid defender who for stretches could allow JO off the court without giving us a defensive liability down low. Beasey could stretch the court a bit and give JO the post by himself.
> 
> I just love this trade. Jermaine O'Neal is only 30, he has some gas left in the tank. Not a ton, but some. We're a good enough team we could rest him on second nights of back to backs or against weaker teams. It is very possible we could enter the playoffs with JO very fresh. And a fresh JO is always a threat tp drop 20 with 8 or 9 rebounds plus a couple blocks.
> 
> Now, add a career best Dwyane Wade to the mix... We're not going to be competing for a 1 or 2 seed, but no reason we can't push Cavs or Celtics to the wall. I'll take a hot wade over a hot LeBron, Paul Pierce, or hot anybody.


I think the last point you made has been skipped over by many Heat fans...

Jermaine O'Neal has NEVER played with a player like Dwyane Wade. That will give him opportunities that he doesn't get in Toronto. Wade will make the game easier for Jermaine in Miami. Add in all those dead-eye shooters around the arc, we are looking like a very good playoff team.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If we bring in Jermaine O'Neal we'd be very dangerous. I think he'd be very motivated here, and I can see him averaging 20 and 10 in a first round playoff series then atleast producing if we go against the Celtics, Cavs, or Pistons.


----------



## sknydave

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I like it!


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

yup, i already said that in a different thread. Wade would take the pressure off jermaine, i like the trade and want it done. 

i have been clamoring to trade Marion since the off-season.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Jermaine O'Neal is out again for today's game against Atlanta.

btw, league pass is free this week for those that dont know.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Jermaine O'Neal is out again for today's game against Atlanta.
> 
> btw, league pass is free this week for those that dont know.


The Raptors and Heat won't have another game until Wednesday. I really feel like this deal is going down tomorrow.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Is Kapono playing tonight?


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Kapono is back.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

JO's stats over the last 5 seasons looks like "bad Shaq" all over again.

04-05 - played in 44 games - 24pts 9reb 2blk at a 45% clip.

05-06 - played in 51 games - 20pts 9reb 2blk at a 47% clip.

06-07 - played in 69 games - 19pts 9reb 2blk at a 43% clip.

07-08 - played in 42 games - 13pts 7reb 2blk at a 43% clip.

08-09 - played in 29 games - 13pts 7reb 2blk at a 47% clip.

If he goes down we'll be dreadful on both sides of the court.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

*A most curious absence*


> If you didn't notice, Jermaine O'Neal was held out of Monday's 87-84 Raptors loss in Atlanta.
> 
> That was after O'Neal supposedly was held out of Sunday's home loss to Phoenix so his troublesome right knee would be up to the test against the conference-rival Hawks.
> 
> OK, that means one of two things:
> 
> * O'Neal is not nearly healthy enough to be dealt anywhere, let alone to the Heat for Shawn Marion, having now missed 11 of the Raptors' last 12 games and having not scored a single basket since Dec. 29.
> 
> * Or the Raptors know they're close enough to unloading the failed offseason acquisition that they don't want to risk a pre-trade injury.
> 
> Oh, and the Heat had a scout at Monday's game in Atlanta.
> 
> While the advance scouting was already scheduled in advance of the O'Neal rumors, with the Heat to face the Hawks next Monday, this is a situation that grows more curious by the day.
> 
> The reality is the Heat is in no position to trade a consistent contributor for a player who has been little more than a spectator for nearly a month.
> 
> For now, like O'Neal, the Heat is in a holding pattern.
> 
> FYI, before Monday's game in Atlanta, Raptors General Manager Bryan Colangelo offered the following statement, "After reviewing everything with the medical team yesterday and again this morning, it was decided that a few more days of rehabilitation, therapy and controlled court work would be best for Jermaine to have a complete and symptom-free recovery. The timetable for his return to game action will remain day to day."


----------



## paragraph 2.0

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> *A most curious absence*


I'm not liking this at all... Seems like J.O. might be damaged goods kinda like when Grant Hill went to the Magic. I'm afraid to pull the trigger on this deal


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Colangelo is just using smokescreens to the press man, this deal is as good as done IMO.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> If he goes down we'll be dreadful on both sides of the court.


Not really. Marion doesn't do that much for us, and we can still stick Diawara, Daequan Cook, or James Jones in the spot, get solid defense, and have a great spot up shooter to help keep the lane much more unpacked. Yes, we would hurt on the boards, but Magloire lately is being more active and productive down low.

So, any problems we'd have with Marion being gone and JO being hurt would be worth the reward of it turning out well.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Initially when the prospect of JO was brought up, ill admit I wasnt that keen.

Then I began to think about it.

JO (whilst injury prone), is a big man. He rebounds. He blocks shots. At one point he was an automatic 20/10. He can still be that guy in spurts. JO has never played with a guy like Dwyane Wade, someone that really takes the attention off him. JO would be a very good 3rd option - he can shoot it a little, but can also score in the paint. Hes a back to the basket, post up threat...hes what we need.

We will miss Marion more than we think. Ill be first in line to admit the Matrix has been a dissapointment this season, but he gives his all...hes just not a good fit here. His contributions can be made up by committee of Cook, Diawara, Wright, Jones etc...but we cant get that sort of contribution from our center position. 

Honestly, I think we'll be a better team. It opens up more minutes for Cook (who has played some SF this year) - and Jones (if hes around, otherwise Kapono if he comes back to us). That means theres atleast 2 supreme distance shooters on the floor with Wade at all times. Add to that, Beasley is one of the top shooting bigs in the league already. Think of the spacing Wade will have without needing Marion to take up a spot on the court - everyone sags off Shawn because they know hes not a threat to shoot the ball if its not a runner from 12-15ft.

With shooters out there (Quinn, Chalmers, Cook, Diawara, Jones/Kapono, Beasley) - Wade's lanes are even wider. Plus we have the banger inside, with experience, and good post up defense to disrupt the big guys who too often dominate us.

I like this trade - lets get it done.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

*Jermaine O'Neal - Hear the Man Out*


> Had a Delta connection Monday through Atlanta on the way back from the Heat's game in Oklahoma City when the thought first occurred.
> 
> Hey, since I'm passing through, why not extend the layover and catch a MLK Day matinee over at Philips Arena between the Hawks and Toronto Raptors. Let's check this Jermaine O'Neal situation out up close Jermaine_2 and personal.
> 
> Turns out, O'Neal didn't play Sunday - his second straight absence because of recurring issues with his troublesome right knee. This is the same knee, mind you, that apparently has the attention of Heat president Pat Riley, who is considering trading Shawn Marion for O'Neal. Miami actually had two scouts scheduled to be there, according to the seating chart. Yes, the Heat plays the Hawks a week from today. But still ...
> 
> We've offered you Marion's reaction to the speculation in our coverage over the past few days. So naturally, it was time to hear from O'Neal. And since I just happened to be in the neighborhood, it made sense to stop by - especially since it wouldn't cost the paper any additional money in these tough economic times for the industry.
> 
> So here's part of our chat in Q&A form with potential new Heat center Jermaine O'Neal.
> 
> *MW: So what's the deal with your knee? You've missed 11 of the past 12 games?*
> 
> JO: We originally thought something might have been torn, but the MRI showed that things were fine. It just swelled up on me when we took a long flight recently. It just took a long time to get the swelling out of the knee. I'm just trying to build it back up. Get my strength back.
> 
> *MW: So when will you play again?*
> 
> JO: I probably could have played today. I was at 85 percent. So we felt like it would be best to give it one more day of treatment. We've got practice tomorrow, and I'm going to be ready against Detroit (Wednesday). I'm going to play.
> 
> *MW: How have you handled the double adversity of the knee situation and the trade speculation of potentially joining the Heat?*
> 
> JO: My concern is about playing basketball and staying healthy. That's been my Achilles heel the last two years. I want to play as many games as I can possibly play. But I want to play at my form. The trade rumors are what they are. I understand them. I understand the significance of my contract, my history and all of that. The biggest thing is handling the part with my family. I've checked with my agent about whether there was interest from other teams. I want to know, not just for me but for my family. I heard about this deal (with the Heat) for the first time on TV the other day.
> 
> *MW: Is this a difficult time for you now - just waiting to see what happens next, if a trade takes place?*
> 
> JO: No matter what team I'm with, I want to dominate my position. Block shots, rebound and change the dimension of a team defensively. If you're a good player, you can find your way. When you worry about the business of trades, it takes away from where your focus should be. The biggest difference for me from before is that if this actually happens, it'll happen during the season. That's never happened with me before, either in Portland or Indiana or here. It's never been during the season.
> 
> *MW: Considering the issue is out there, would you welcome a trade to the Heat?*
> 
> JO: I'm just trusting that (Raptors GM) Bryan Colangelo will do the best thing for this organization and for me, whatever that might be. I talked to him before we left the hotel to get here. I've talked to him in the locker room during the game. He's about helping the program and the player. If that's the case, where he would trade me to Miami, then that's the situation where he feels I can blossom.
> 
> *MW: You still have a condo in Miami?*
> 
> JO: I actually don't anymore. But I'm very familiar with the city. I'm familiar with how that team plays. Obviously, with Dwyane Wade and Udonis Haslem - those guys play at a hard level, a high level defensively. If that (trade) were to happen, I don't feel like it would be a tough fit.
> 
> *MW: You and Udonis have had your share of battles and mix-ups. Is it safe to assume whatever beef there was between you two has been squashed?*
> 
> JO: (Laughs) Yeah. It's never personal. I see this man every time I go to Miami (in the offseason) to play basketball. I respect his ability to compete at such a high level at his size. Most guys his size won't compete as hard as he does. You respect him for that. He doesn't back away. The more and more you hear about it (potential trades), the more you try to evaluate things. That city (Miami) has been great. Toronto has been unbelievably great to me and my family. So whatever Mr. Colangelo decides to do - if that be the case - Pat Riley is going to get a man that's hungry.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Saying the right things, but its all he can do right now. The matter is out of his hands.

Knee does sound a little concerning though.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Injuries become much less serious after trades. It is like magic.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> JO: No matter what team I'm with, I want to dominate my position. Block shots, rebound and change the dimension of a team defensively. If you're a good player, you can find your way.





> JO: That city (Miami) has been great. Toronto has been unbelievably great to me and my family. So whatever Mr. Colangelo decides to do - if that be the case - Pat Riley is going to get a man that's hungry.


I really hope he's being true here. He's definately saying all the right things.

Good to hear he likes Haslem.. :biggrin:


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Marion is gone after this year and even with the cap space we'd have, Riley is going to wait to 2010. So why not just go after someone who at worst is a center (which we need) who can play defense, unlike Shaq. We'd have him for two years and then it's 2010. Sure, the injury is a concern but I think its a risk worth taking just because we'd lose Marion for nothing next year.


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Wow Jermaine isn't being shy about these rumors. I've never seen a rumored player talking so openly about his possible destination. To me, it sounds like JO wants to be in Miami. The only thing holding this back has to be his knee, because Riley would get it done otherwise.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Or, maybe Riley is trying to get us a better deal? 

Let's assume that JO+Solomon for Marion+Banks (the simplest and most widely reported version of the JO+Marion trade) goes down and winds up being part of a bigger deal. 

In this trade, the Heat takes on a mere 194k in salary this season so both teams skirt the tax. Miami would have an open roster spot to fill, and would be instant contenders. On the flip-side, Toronto rebuilds around Jose+Cook+Beasley+Bargnani with only 1 bad contract on the books (Banks). The threat of Bosh walking for nothing in 2010 has been replaced by Michael Beasley, Daequan Cook, Dorell Wright, James Jones, and a Kapono dump. Blount provides filler which expires in 2010.

*Miami Heat Trade/Toronto Raptors Receive:*
Michael Beasley
Shawn Marion
Daequan Cook
Dorell Wright
James Jones
Mark Blount
Marcus Banks

*Miami Heat Receive/Toronto Raptors Trade:*
Chris Bosh
Jermaine O'Neal
Jamario Moon
Jason Kapono 
Will Solomon

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...14~14~14~14~14~28~28~28~28~28~28~28&te=&cash=

*Miami Heat Roster:*
PG: Mario Chalmers/Chris Quinn/Will Solomon
SG: Dwyane Wade/Yakhouba Diawara
SF: Jamario Moon/Jason Kapono
PF: Chris Bosh/Udonis Haslem
C: Jermaine O'Neal/Jamaal Magloire/Joel Anthony

*Toronto Raptors Roster:*
PG: Jose Calderon/Marcus Banks/Roko Ukic
SG: Daequan Cook/Anthony Parker/James Jones
SF: Shawn Marion/Dorell Wright/Joey Graham
PF: Michael Beasley/Kris Humphries/Nathan Jawai
C: Andrea Bargnani/Mark Blount/Jake Voskuhl


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Someone needs to step away from the trade machine :laugh:


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Someone needs to step away from the trade machine :laugh:


:laugh:

I think it's semi-fair. Even though a Bosh trade is always terribly unlikely.


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Marion, Beasley and Bargnani all play the same position. Bargnani is not a center. And man, for real, walk away from the trade machine lol, Raptors are not giving up Bosh, even with the chance of losing him in FA.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



myst said:


> Marion, Beasley and Bargnani all play the same position. Bargnani is not a center. And man, for real, walk away from the trade machine lol, Raptors are not giving up Bosh, even with the chance of losing him in FA.


I believe in Pat Riley. Yes we can! :clown:


----------



## southeasy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

i thought about this more the other night & came up w/ a 3-way deal involving Dallas aswell as MIA & T.O. that i really thought benefited all teams more then the aforementioned JO/Marion swap.

in my "hypothetical" deal

MIA receives:
Jermaine O'Neal
Jason Kapono
Will Solomon
James Singleton

*Chalmers/Quinn/Solomon
Wade/Cook/Diawara
Beasely/Kapono/Singleton/D.Wright
Haslem/Blount/
O'Neal/Magloire*

TOR receives:
Josh Howard
Jerry Stackhouse
James Jones
Marcus Banks

*Calderon/Banks/Ukic
Parker/Stackhouse
Howard/Jones/Graham
Bosh/Humphries
Bargnani/Voskuhl/Jawai*

DAL receives:
Shawn Marion
Jamario Moon
Joel Anthony
TOR 2nd rounder

*Kidd/Barea
Terry/A.Wright/Carroll/Green
Marion/Moon/George
Nowitzki/Bass
Dampier/Anthony/Hollins*

i like JO as a fit in MIA, J.Howard brings more of what T.O. needs then Marion IMO, as he can create his own shot at a high level, & Marion as a running rebounding high energy defensive player would fit well w/ Terry,Dirk& Kidd running the point like the old PHX days.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

^ Not a bad trade man. Give us a filler thats better than Singleton tho!

Moon and Marion on the same team is kinda redundant also.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Without doing the math, it looks to me that that Miami takes on about 2 million in that trade, which would put us in the luxury tax. We'd need to include Dorell (and probably get Moon back instead of Singleton). Other than that, it's pretty solid. Good trade. Though if there were a way to get Howard in Miami for Marion+sweetener, I think we'd do everything in our power to bypass Toronto.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Flash is the Future said:


> :laugh:
> 
> I think it's semi-fair. Even though a Bosh trade is always terribly unlikely.


:laugh: 

Although that would be awesome, it wont happen purely because of how many players are involved. Wade, Bosh and JO though...:drool:


----------



## southeasy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

MB30, i agree on your second point, Marion/Moon does cause some redundancy, which i think is part of the reason why A) in the original trade ideas been thrown around w/ just Tor/Mia involved, i as a t.dot representative was hesitant to acquiring marion in the first place w/ Moon still on board & B)if we do acquire Marion w/ Moon still on the team, i think we'll see more deals from T.0. involving packages including Moons very small throw in contract.

trade works legally, trade check, and i value singleton almost as much as a jamario. i pretty much liken him to a stronger, bigger more aggressive moon w/ alittle less shooting ability, less tendancy to take stupid shots & not being scared of contact.

rumors of howard to toronto were happening a couple weeks ago before his hand injury & the Diop trade, so thats where this came from.

we got Marion expiring the end of this season, JO next season & Howard through 2011? he'd be a sign from the management to Dwyane Wade & Chris Bosh respectively that they are legitimately wanting to contend more so then a Marion rental or JO deal.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Farther we get from this, more I think this trade may be a false rumor. I had a feeling there was some true legs to this trade possibility, but apparently not.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Smithian said:


> Farther we get from this, more I think this trade may be a false rumor. I had a feeling there was some true legs to this trade possibility, but apparently not.


Same thing happened about this time last year with Shaq trade rumors. They blew over. And then two weeks later it went down out of the blue. There's definitely something here if Riley isn't categorically denying it. It might not happen immediately though.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

When this deal 1st broke, all reports stated that Riles wanted to 1st watch Jermaine O'Neal for a few games before pulling the trigger and he hasnt been able to with O'Neal not having played the past 2 games. 

I think we might be to be a little bit more patient with this


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'm not ready to wait. I'm a fan, not an executive, I demand instant gratification.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Smithian said:


> I'm not ready to wait. I'm a fan, not an executive, I demand *instant gratification.*












You're welcome

*Sorry but, no shirt, no shoes, no pants, no service. So I censored this with a more safe-for-work picture so no one gets in trouble for reading about Marion+Banks - Flash*


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I knew your GF was hot.


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

im all the only one to notice a bible in the night table? it looks like she just finished 18 rounds with 4 different men at once, and she's got the holy bible on her night table?!?!


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> im all the only one to notice a bible in the night table? it looks like she just finished 18 rounds with 4 different men at once, and she's got the holy bible on her night table?!?!


Thinking back to that picture, I think they might have been in a hotel.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

She actually had shoes on but there are no ***** or titties, the picture is safe for work no?


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Dee-Zy said:


> She actually had shoes on but there are no ***** or titties, the picture is safe for work no?


I think there's a fine line (and it really depends on where you work). If this were the Best Damn Babe Thread, I think it would be perfectly acceptable because members would know exactly what they're opening. But it's best that we don't have some member (or guest for that matter) think that they're opening a discussion of JO for Marion+Banks only to run into a picture of a fully unclothed (albeit unexposed) model which could possibly get them in trouble at work. Bikinis are a little bit different. I apologize for any inconvenience (or loss of gratification ).


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Yeah, Flah, I'm sad again. That first picture was like a trade for Jermaine O'Neal...

This one is like a trade for Eddy Curry. Good, but not great.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Smithian said:


> Yeah, Flah, I'm sad again. That first picture was like a trade for Jermaine O'Neal...
> 
> This one is like a trade for Eddy Curry. Good, but not great.


You're comparing Brooklyn Decker to Eddy Curry? :sadbanana:


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> When this deal 1st broke, all reports stated that Riles wanted to 1st watch Jermaine O'Neal for a few games before pulling the trigger and he hasnt been able to with O'Neal not having played the past 2 games.
> 
> I think we might be to be a little bit more patient with this


well, I think we all assumed JO not playing those 2 games, as well as the late Marion scratch, meant the deal was imminent

maybe those all really were coincidences and we jumped the gun...... its a lot of coincidences, but its starting to look like that. There is no reason why the deal wouldnt be announced today if it was agreed upon.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Happy time is over...


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

We shall soon see, perhaps me completing the deal on NBA 2k9 was a bad omen 

How bout this one?

Miami trades - 

Shawn Marion
Udonis Haslem
Daequan Cook


Miami receives - 

Amare Stoudemire
Leandro Barbosa
Jared Dudley

Heat:

PG - Chalmers/Quinn/Banks
SG - Wade/Barbosa
SF - Beasley/Jones/Wright/Diawara
PF - Stoudemire/Beasley/Dudley
C - Anthony/Magloire/Blount


Suns:

PG - Nash/Dragic
SG - Richardson/Cook
SF - Marion/Hill/Barnes/Tucker
PF - Haslem/Amundson
C - O'Neal/Lopez/Sims

Why?

For the Heat, we lose our 2 starting forward, but open up a starting spot for Beasley - and gain Amare (a top 5/10 PF). Contract is 2010 friendly, and we can test him out to see how he fits next to Wade for the next 18 months before deciding what to do. Dudley is a solid wing/big.

For the Suns, they have no chemistry, and Amare is their biggest fish with trade value. Haslem is a proven piece next to Shaq, and we all know how good Marion is next to Nash. Cook would be a sad loss for the Heat, but he helps get this trade going through.

Something tells me that there's something brewing down in Phoenix, theyre good on paper, but they just dont have it collectively as a group. Marion and Haslem are proven "glue guys" who offer a lot in the way of chemistry. Theyd be good fits in Phoenix.

Thoughts? Im aware an Amare trade is unlikely..but not impossible.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Flash is the Future said:


> You're comparing Brooklyn Decker to Eddy Curry? :sadbanana:



:rofl:


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> We shall soon see, perhaps me completing the deal on NBA 2k9 was a bad omen
> 
> How bout this one?
> 
> Miami trades -
> 
> Shawn Marion
> Udonis Haslem
> Daequan Cook
> 
> 
> Miami receives -
> 
> Amare Stoudemire
> Leandro Barbosa
> Jared Dudley
> 
> Heat:
> 
> PG - Chalmers/Quinn/Banks
> SG - Wade/Barbosa
> SF - Beasley/Jones/Wright/Diawara
> PF - Stoudemire/Beasley/Dudley
> C - Anthony/Magloire/Blount
> 
> 
> Suns:
> 
> PG - Nash/Dragic
> SG - Richardson/Cook
> SF - Marion/Hill/Barnes/Tucker
> PF - Haslem/Amundson
> C - O'Neal/Lopez/Sims
> 
> Why?
> 
> For the Heat, we lose our 2 starting forward, but open up a starting spot for Beasley - and gain Amare (a top 5/10 PF). Contract is 2010 friendly, and we can test him out to see how he fits next to Wade for the next 18 months before deciding what to do. Dudley is a solid wing/big.
> 
> For the Suns, they have no chemistry, and Amare is their biggest fish with trade value. Haslem is a proven piece next to Shaq, and we all know how good Marion is next to Nash. Cook would be a sad loss for the Heat, but he helps get this trade going through.
> 
> Something tells me that there's something brewing down in Phoenix, theyre good on paper, but they just dont have it collectively as a group. Marion and Haslem are proven "glue guys" who offer a lot in the way of chemistry. Theyd be good fits in Phoenix.
> 
> Thoughts? Im aware an Amare trade is unlikely..but not impossible.


Sorry man, but TERRIBLE idea. They traded Marion because he didn't want to be there, and they weren't happy with him. Plus, they are not going to trade Amare, he is the future of their franchise when Shaq and Nash are done in 1-2 years. I mean, by all means, if the Suns were to accept it then you TAKE IT. But come on, Steve Kerr isn't that stupid.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

He didnt want to be there a year ago, a lot has changed on that team. They're pretty disfunctional. Amare has voiced frustration...I dunno, I could see a trade happening involving him.

Suns could just as easily clear a ton of cap space in 2010 (Nash and Shaq expiring, UD would be also, and Marion finishing up this year) and take a run at some of the big guns. I think they need to start over to be honest, theyre not going anywhere with their current group but a 1st round playoff loss at best.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

It's tough. They'd probably want Chalmers too. And I'd probably cave. But that's just about the best deal we can provide them without including Beasley.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Id say they can have Chalmers, or Cook - not both.

Here's a recent article by Ian Thomsen at SI.com:

*On the whole, Suns come up short*



BOSTON -- Steve Kerr isn't going to like this, but he needs to make another trade. Maybe a lot of trades.

The Suns' general manager extended his neck already by trading for Shaquille O'Neal, and replacing coach Mike D'Antoni with Terry Porter, and acquiring Jason Richardson at the expense of Boris Diaw and Steve Nash's close friend Raja Bell. But Kerr can't stop there, because the Suns remain a team of gaudy parts that form an inefficient engine. Altogether, they produce too little energy and too much exhaust.

All of the talk before their game Monday night in Boston was of how they appeared to be coming together and finding a medium style that benefited the strengths of both Nash and Shaq. The Suns had scored 100 points or more in the last 10 games, and their core stars looked rejuvenated and promising in each other's company.

And then 10 minutes into the first quarter, the Celtics had them down 30-13. It was 56-24 more than three minutes before intermission. Never in the half did the Suns total more field goals than turnovers.

With thanks to the informed counsel I received around the Suns' locker room after the game, here is their problem: They spend too much effort on compromise and not enough on sacrifice, and meanwhile the team suffers. The Suns are a respectable 23-16 overall, but they are a revealing 6-10 against their rival eight playoff contenders in the West. How can a team of Nash, Shaq, Amaré Stoudemire, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson and Leandro Barbosa -- each a celebrated name unto himself -- be so ineffectual as a group? The answer, as brought to my attention by one Suns insider after the game, can be found in the example of the team that had just finished kicking them up and down the floor.

The Celtics are a lot like the Suns. Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were accomplished stars who -- like Nash, Stoudemire and Hill -- had never starred for accomplished teams. They had never reached an NBA Finals. The Celtics won their championship by focusing not on their needs as individuals but on the needs of the team. They became obsessed with making the extra pass and rotating to cover for each other defensively.

"I had a group of guys that were very willing to be coached and weren't stuck on who they were,'' Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. "I hear guys say they want to win it, but I think what they're really saying is, 'I want to win it as long as I can keep doing what I do.' I had three stars who said they wanted to win and they would change to do it. I don't think you get that a lot.''

The Suns have been trying to change. Shaq has accepted a lesser role, Nash's scoring is down (to 14.4 points) and Hill has been "an All-NBA defender,'' according to Kerr. But do they really believe deep down that they can make it work? Are they truly married to the mission? They still don't blend as a team, and a 104-87 collapse against Boston demonstrates that they aren't committed to the fine details that separate contenders like the Celtics and Spurs from all of the pretenders who never can quite understand the difference between winning and losing.

Let me say that I tend to be extremely conservative when it comes to slamming the door on contenders. My instinct is to not rule out the chances of any team as talented as these Suns with a half-season still to play. But we've all seen the commitment the Spurs and Celtics have made, and the team-first discipline the Lakers, Cavaliers and Magic are creating -- and these Suns don't look like they have that kind of commitment or discipline in them.

I'm not questioning their heart -- Shaq has won four championships and Nash wants to win badly -- but I doubt their functionality as a group. It doesn't matter that they were concluding a back-to-back or playing for the fourth time in five days; a championship team would have embraced the challenge of playing in Boston against the Celtics. What does the Suns' reaction say about them?

They face three options that I can see.

• No. 1: Look for their version of Chauncey Billups. The Nuggets were trying to create a more disciplined approach, but it didn't come together until they traded a finisher (Allen Iverson) for a creator (Billups). One option Kerr may consider is packaging Stoudemire for a lesser frontcourt star, a Luis Scola type. Would Miami be interested in Stoudemire for Udonis Haslem and other pieces? (Andrei Kirilenko is another frontcourt defender who could help glue a lot of the holes in Phoenix, but it's hard to see Jerry Sloan embracing Stoudemire.)

• No. 2: Wait until 2010. Stoudemire can become a free agent that summer, when the contracts of Nash and Shaq also expire to create max cap space. In the meantime, however, Nash and Shaq (and maybe Hill) could grow frustrated that their biological clocks are ticking down when they could be contributing to a championship contender.

• No. 3: Start over. This is a radical plan, and I don't envision it happening anytime soon. But if you're going to rebuild the team anyway, would you rather do it now or later? Especially when Nash and Shaq are playing at a high level?

Nash could fit with any number of contenders while also coming off the cap in 2010. And I don't agree that Shaq is untradable, especially now that he's talking about extending his career. If he plays through the season at this rate, he'll enter the summer as a championship center putting up strong numbers with a $21 million expiring contract. He and Nash will have value in every realm, including the box office.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'm really hoping this trade goes down now, it'd be quite disappointing for rumours to die down and for us to go back to watching Wade & Marion with Beasley off the bench..


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

"Would Miami be interested for Amare for Udonis Haslem"....WTF!?!?!?


Are they seriously asking if WE would be interested? That guy lost all his credibility. Anyone who says no to an Amare for UD swap needs to leave the world of basketball.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

The idea of a trade for Amare or Bosh is just wasted thought.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Maybe - Bosh I dont see being traded, but Amare I could. Its not like trades for superstars dont happen - they do...and I dont think a trade like the one I mentioned is that far out of the realm of possibility.

Everyone knows Amare is a better player than Haslem/Marion - but I guess all you have to do is look at the Billups/AI trade. AI is a superior player, but Billups is a team first guy who just meshes. Haslem/Marion are those types of guys, and theyd fit in well next to Nash/Jrich and Shaq. Both are good defenders too.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

The difference between AI (before moving to the Pistons) and Amare (now) though is pretty substantial. Even then, people had seen the AI/Melo experiment fail and generally were somewhat down or atleast doubtful on AI as a player who could really help a team. Amare is far more dominant than the AI of late, is not seen as the potential cause of problems for his team (generally the fault is with Amare being left out of the offence or not properly utilized), and he's a big man to top it off.

Plus Marion + Haslem are great guys to have on a team, but they don't have Billups' rep and history of success and effect on a team. Then theres Marion's issues with being undervalued and such..


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

*Trade scenarios abound for Miami Heat forward Marion*


> As the Miami Heat continues to consider a deal for Jermaine O'Neal, Miami has been giving thought to other Shawn Marion trade scenarios, including one involving Dallas small forward Josh Howard, according to an official involved in the Marion discussions. Several teams have inquired about Marion, who's unlikely to re-sign here, but it's not certain a deal will happen.
> 
> The Heat considers center its No. 1 need and O'Neal as the best center available but remains concerned about his sore right knee (which has sidelined him 11 games this season) and the $23 million he's due in 2009-10, the last year of his contract. It's 50-50 whether Miami will accept Toronto's offer of O'Neal for Marion and Marcus Banks, the official said. The O'Neal camp is optimistic it will happen.
> 
> The Heat is studying at least three other options, with Dallas confirmed to be among them. The Heat and Mavericks spoke about a four-team deal that would have brought Howard here, but that was sidetracked when Dallas sent DeSagana Diop to Charlotte. But the Heat remains intrigued by Howard, who's due $10.8 million in 2009-10 and has a team option for $11.8 million in 2010-11. Dallas would need to add at least one other player for cap reasons.
> 
> The Heat also prefers to move Mark Blount or Banks in a Marion trade.
> 
> Charlotte spoke to the Heat, but Miami doesn't want Gerald Wallace's long-term contract. New Orleans likes Marion, but the Heat -- which wants ample 2010 cap space -- presumably would not want Peja Stojakovic's contract, which pays him $15.3 million in 2010-11.
> 
> Sacramento would consider a deal involving center Brad Miller and a second player (but not John Salmons) for Marion, but the Heat hasn't pursued that since an initial inquiry about Miller more than a month ago.
> 
> Miami inquired earlier about the Clippers' Marcus Camby but was told he's not available. There have been no serious Heat talks about Chris Kaman, whose deal runs past 2011. New York would welcome Marion's expiring contract, but seemingly has little to appeal to the Heat.
> 
> Portland, hypothetically, could use Raef LaFrentz's expiring contract ($12 million this year) and tempt the Heat if it offered one or two of its young, cheap players such as Travis Outlaw and Jerryd Bayless.
> 
> Miami is happy with Mario Chalmers, but would listen if a quality point guard is offered. The Heat has not offered Marion a new contract after Marion rejected its initial offer last summer.
> 
> • One NBA scout, on O'Neal (averaging 13.6 points, 7.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and shooting 47 percent): ''He's not the guy he was, but he's not washed up. It looks like he's lost a step, but he can defend and give them a shot-blocker.'' But in the past four seasons, he played in only 44, 51, 69 and 42 games.
> 
> • The Heat is receptive to trading Marion for a productive player whose contract runs through 2009-10 because: 1) Carlos Boozer, the top impending free agent, is no longer viewed as the ideal fit here, with Udonis Haslem and Michael Beasley at power forward. 2) Even if Miami kept Marion and didn't re-sign him, it would have less than $10 million in cap space this summer, not enough for Boozer anyway.
> 
> The plan remains big cap space in 2010, with Miami expected to pursue Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudamire to pair with Dwyane Wade, who can also be a free agent that summer.
> 
> • Marion said Tuesday he is ''really tired'' of the trade rumors. ``It's very distracting. It's frustrating.''
> 
> • If the Marion/O'Neal trade happens, that would not open a starting spot for Beasley, because the Heat views him as a power forward. Asked Tuesday how much small forward Beasley could play now, coach Erik Spoelstra said, ''Eventually, he could probably play some. I don't want to do that right now because that's a tough transition. I want to simplify his thinking as much as possible.'' Spoelstra said Beasley can play small forward offensively ``right now. Defensively, that would be the biggest adjustment.''


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Interesting article.

Lots of speculation out there, itll be interesting to see how this all winds up.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I believe that the player we have targeted this summer, if we keep Marion and let him expire, is Mehmet Okur. He's better than Boozer and he's the ideal player for our team.

If Utah outbids us for him then we're stuck empty handed next season, so either we take O'Neal now or we gamble on Okur. We have the tax free state advantage against them.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I cant see us settling for Okur unless we are 100% sure Beasley is gonna be that 20/10 post up/mid range guy we're looking for. Whilst thats possible, I dont think Memo offers enough in the way of defense/shotblocking to be our ideal fit. 

However, his ability to space the floor would be nice next to Wade, and open the lanes up.

I still think the plan is to get as much space by 2010 as possible, reup Wade, then say "look - we've got a top 3 player in the world, a beautiful city, good weather, another good player in Mike Beasley...who wants in to help run for a championship?".

I think we will be close to head of the pack with those 3 things to get us started.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> I cant see us settling for Okur unless we are 100% sure Beasley is gonna be that 20/10 post up/mid range guy we're looking for. Whilst thats possible, I dont think Memo offers enough in the way of defense/shotblocking to be our ideal fit.
> 
> However, his ability to space the floor would be nice next to Wade, and open the lanes up.
> 
> I still think the plan is to get as much space by 2010 as possible, reup Wade, then say "look - we've got a top 3 player in the world, a beautiful city, good weather, another good player in Mike Beasley...who wants in to help run for a championship?".
> 
> I think we will be close to head of the pack with those 3 things to get us started.


If that's the thinking then we need to do the O'Neal deal or the Howard deal. Letting Marion expire would be a disaster. Last season there were reports that we could package our expirings (JWill, Icky) and get Nene. I made a thread saying that we absolutely had to take that deal (and everybody was against me lol). Once again, we have to make one of these deals.

Honestly, I'm going crazy with anxiety just waiting for something to happen. I just wanna see a deal go down.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



The '93 Heat said:


> I believe that the player we have targeted this summer, if we keep Marion and let him expire, is Mehmet Okur. He's better than Boozer and he's the ideal player for our team.
> 
> If Utah outbids us for him then we're stuck empty handed next season, so either we take O'Neal now or we gamble on Okur. We have the tax free state advantage against them.


I hope not, I'm really not a fan of Okur..


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Yeah the suspense is killing me, im on the net like 24/7 at the moment :laugh:

I really do think this JO deal is gonna go down, we want that 23 mill of expiring in 2010 - whether to just let it expire, or swing a deal next season when im sure there will be a lot of good players on the block.

I think the hold up could well be trying to dump Blount in with Banks and Marion, and trying not to take on too much salary the way back. 

Riles will do his work, thats something we dont have to worry about. Id be REALLY suprised if Marion was a Heat player in a week or so tops.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



NewAgeBaller said:


> I hope not, I'm really not a fan of Okur..


He's really good. He plays incredibly effective, fundamental basketball that wins games. He's also gigantic. Doesn't get the rebounds but he's as immovable as it gets so he boxes out better than anybody.




MB30 said:


> Yeah the suspense is killing me, im on the net like 24/7 at the moment :laugh:


Same. I'm checking all the South Florida papers 24/7 :laugh:


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

As much as I realize the TO deal is probably the best for Miami contractually and balance-wise, I must say, I really would like Josh Howard here. I've fancied him for awhile, and its clear he and and D-Wade would give opposing perimeter defenses fits. It also allows us to be competitive this year and next without having to work out a one year deal with someone. Unfortunately, it doesn't net us a center, and Banks would still be here.

The Portland trade is pretty intriguing, too. It also does not bring us a (serviceable) center or get rid of Banks, but it would bring in two young studs whom we'd love here in Outlaw and Bayless.

Don't worry guys. I think its a safe bet Marion is out. We should be happy that it appears Riley has a few choices and is holding out/negotiating for the best one possible. We've got the best executive for these kinds of situations. I'm excited.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Jace said:


> As much as I realize the TO deal is probably the best for Miami contractually and balance-wise, I must say, I really would like Josh Howard here. I've *fancied* him for awhile, and its clear he and and D-Wade would give opposing perimeter defenses fits. It also allows us to be competitive this year and next without having to work out a one year deal with someone. Unfortunately, it doesn't net us a center, and Banks would still be here.
> 
> The Portland trade is pretty intriguing, too. It also does not bring us a (serviceable) center or get rid of Banks, but it would bring in two young studs whom we'd love here in Outlaw and Bayless.
> 
> Don't worry guys. I think its a safe bet Marion is out. We should be happy that it appears Riley has a few choices and is holding out/negotiating for the best one possible. We've got the best executive for these kinds of situations. I'm excited.


Jace, I didn't know you were British.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I quite like snagging some of their terms every now and then.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Yeah, If somehow we could get rid of Banks and also get Josh Howard then that would be amazing. But that would most likely be pretty tough to pull off.

It seems its all on Riles right now regarding the Marion/O'Neal trade, and that he could get it done right now if he wanted to.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



The '93 Heat said:


> He's really good. He plays incredibly effective, fundamental basketball that wins games. He's also gigantic. Doesn't get the rebounds but he's as immovable as it gets so he boxes out better than anybody.


Oh yea I'm probably underrating him, I just don't like him personally. :biggrin:

Not my type of player I guess, and then the 'soft'/flopping side of his game for a big, etc.. I've just never been fond of him myself.

That said, I'm sure he could grow on me if we did somehow pick him up. I'll keep an eye on him when I watch Utah from now though.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Id rather see a banger next to Beasley than a soft finesser like Okur.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I dont mind the Portland trade. Id love to net 2 young guys with talent like Outlaw and Bayless. Outlaw would be a nice compliment next to Wade and Beasley, and Bayless I always liked leading up to the draft. Whilst we have earmarked Chalmers as our PG of the future, Bayless has talent, and could very well become a good PG also.

Coming off 15-67, im happy we are in the position we are in...but a change is needed in order to build this team back to powerhouse level.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

How about a 5-team, 16-player blockbuster?


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Jace said:


> How about a 5-team, 16-player blockbuster?


Hit me.


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I am not a fan of Josh Howard....never really liked him...

he is talented and would give us a consistent second scorer, but the guy just isnt very smart. He is selfish, and gets into a lot of off court troubles.


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



reHEATed said:


> I am not a fan of Josh Howard....never really liked him...
> 
> he is talented and would give us a consistent second scorer, but the guy just isnt very smart. He is selfish, and gets into a lot of off court troubles.


Could not have said it any better.

You win with fundamentals. Look at the Dolphins.


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Edit- double post. damn server errors.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Jace said:


> How about a 5-team, 16-player blockbuster?


Haha, lets stay young this time.

I don't want to trade away our young guys. With deveopment from within and maybe one big FA or trade, and we have a championship contender for the conceivable future.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Just thought id mention that JO is playing for the Raptors tonight. Hes got 9 and 1 board in 12 minutes off the bench.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

He finished with 11pts on 3-7, 1 rb, 1blk and 5-8 from the line in just under 20 minutes.

Too bad now its Shawn Marion that's the injured one..


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Im still not sold on Marion's injury...something fishy going on...


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Well at least Josh's off-the-court troubles are the result of him putting his foot in his mouth, instead of a bullet in someone's tush.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

DeAndre Jordan started for the Clippers tonight and put up 23/12/4 blocks on the Lakers. I doubt he'll consistently put up numbers that big but if he plays well over the next couple of weeks then maybe that'll make them a little more open to trading Camby :whoknows:


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> Im still not sold on Marion's injury...something fishy going on...


When Riley realised it was one of Marion's "off days" he probably told him to fake a groin pull. Keep his value up as much as possible. :yes:


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I saw that about Jordan W2M, quite possible...although he did let Bynum put up 41 and 15 :laugh:

Still, Camby would be a good fit here. 

Your right NAB - Riles mustve got his Marion voodoo doll out after that ****ed up dunk.


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

portland? that deal would be sick...long term thats huge

marion 
banks

for 

outlaw
bayless
LaFrentz


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

joe rose said 12:30 will be big news coming from heat basketball....coud be the whole Zo ordeal or trade...


----------



## sknydave

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

hmmm I will tune in


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> joe rose said 12:30 will be big news coming from heat basketball....coud be the whole Zo ordeal or trade...


from DQ's post yesterday, it has to be the zo thing. He is never wrong when it comes to things Zo.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

*Heat's Pat Riley sounds like he's ready to deal*


> MIAMI - Medical papers have been swapped. The long view is being stressed. And Pat Riley's fetish for height remains unsated.
> 
> After the Miami Heat president commented for the first time in months about his team's personnel situation, it is difficult to take any view other than that a trade is in the works.
> 
> Speaking moments after center Alonzo Mourning announced his retirement, Riley said Thursday while he appreciates his team's current spot in the playoff race, long-term championship aspirations supersede current considerations.
> 
> "The point is that the big picture always trumps the present moment," he said. "While the present moment is important, I am not going to do something to take away from what I think we can see down the road."
> 
> Riley stressed two goals: Maintaining his team's salary-cap flexibility for the 2010 offseason, when his own Dwyane Wade and others such as LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Amare Stoudemire could be free agents; and finding a post-up scoring presence to continue his team's lineage of Mourning and Shaquille O'Neal.
> 
> "There's a lot of good things and I don't want to mess with that," he said of his team's current state. "I will do something that would help the team win now and also help the team in the future."
> 
> It is a future, Riley said, that has to transcend small ball, the Heat's current approach.
> 
> "I don't believe in that game," he said. "In the long run, I don't think that game's going to win you a title."
> 
> A move that could satisfy both objectives could be a trade of forward Shawn Marion to the Toronto Raptors for center Jermaine O'Neal, whose contract expires at the end of 2009-10.
> 
> Asked about the Heat and Raptors having swapped medical information on Marion and O'Neal, Riley said, "It doesn't make any difference. I could have made the same request to five other teams, also. That's just the normal process."
> 
> Marion, who was forced to sit out the second half of Wednesday's loss to the Celtics with a troublesome left groin, was unable to practice Thursday and is questionable for Saturday's home game against the Magic.
> 
> "I've had long conversations with Shawn and with Dan," Riley said of agent Dan Fegan. "It's not a very comfortable time for anybody. I value Shawn Marion immensely. He is a tremendous player and I'm sorry that this is going on right now.
> 
> "Shawn Marion, right now, he's our second-best player on the team and I value him as that."
> 
> Others, however, value Marion for his $17.8 million expiring contract.
> 
> Riley said the glut of Marion, Udonis Haslem and first-round pick Michael Beasley at power forward is overstated.
> 
> "I think they've done very well," he said. "They're very versatile players."
> 
> The NBA trading deadline is Feb. 19. Riley declined to flatly rule out a move.
> 
> "If it happens, it happens," he said. "I'm just going to say that we're trying improve the team. There's a lot of players on our team that other teams have interest in."


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> TRADE TALK: A deal that would send Jermaine O'Neal to Miami and Shawn Marion to Toronto is progressing. According to a league sources, the two teams have exchanged medical records, usually a precursor to a deal. The Knicks had talked to Miami about a Marion-for-Eddy Curry deal, but Curry has appeared in only one game this season due to a knee injury.


Link

And from the article posted above:


> Asked about the Heat and Raptors having swapped medical information on Marion and O'Neal, Riley said, "It doesn't make any difference. I could have made the same request to five other teams, also. That's just the normal process."


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I swear if we just keep Marion past trade deadline.. :azdaja:

Looks like things could be heating up though! Can't wait to have JO over, even if he is kinda done.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

We can no longer hold out with the hope Alonzo comes back and sparks us defensively... He is done. It is time to make a move. There are no players waiting in the wings to step in and help us.

Make a move, Riley. We have a roster that could possibly upset someone first round, but even playing the PIstons with Rasheed Wallace would cause problems. Lets not take the chance.


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I think that Zo's retirement will send a message to Riley.

I'm sure Pat has spent some time over the past 24 hours reflecting on the great things Zo did in Miami. How spectacular he was on the defensive end and the difference he made on our teams through the years. Think about Pat Riley's career - Kareem, Ewing, Zo, Shaq...

He's ALWAYS built his team with a dominant big man. And every step, he's been successful. I think Riley is itching to bring in a potentially key piece at the center position. Joel has been serviceable. Magloire has played his role off the bench, and Udonis has done well playing spot minutes there. But enough is enough - Jermaine O'Neal is no longer an all-star player, but he is far beyond an upgrade for our team right now. He helps us NOW, and doesn't ruin our FUTURE plans. 

I know you can't take away from Zo's day with a major trade - book it tomorrow. Marion to Toronto, Jermaine in Miami.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

^ I was thinking this exact same thing. It has a sense of inevitability about it, and the trade wouldve been delayed over respect to Zo (as well as seeing how JO's knee is).

This is going down tomorrow - i feel that.


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> ^ I was thinking this exact same thing. It has a sense of inevitability about it, and the trade wouldve been delayed over respect to Zo (as well as seeing how JO's knee is).
> 
> This is going down tomorrow - i feel that.


You also have to look at our upcoming schedule...you normally don't make deals on game days.

Sat 1/24 vs ORL
Mon 1/26 vs ATL
Wed 1/28 vs WAS 
Fri 1/30 @ IND
Sat 1/31 vs DAL

Basically every other day for the next week...but with such a long home stand, it brings an opportunity to change things up while we're in Miami.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Nothing new here. Just O'Neal talking about the trade rumors


> Just halfway through this season and its dashed hopes, O'Neal is sanguine about the possibility of about being shuttled out of town so the Raptors can get on with rebuilding — again.
> 
> "It's part of the business," he said. "My concern to stay healthy. If I'm healthy I can be very, very, very effective on both ends of the floor. You just need to do what you can do, handle what you can handle and when a team says they have different plans, they have different plans."


Link


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Too bad that's a very, very, very big "if."


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

This is going down soon methinks, I can feel it. Without Zo we haven't got anything major inside. Bring in JO and it's a big upgrade, even if he's not what he used to be.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Can we do this freakin trade already?

I dont get why Chris Perkins of the PalmBeachPost is so against this trade...it makes perfect sense for both teams IMO. If JO goes down, he goes down - but if he stays up, its huge for us.

If he can put up 14 and 8-9 with a block or two, thatd make us a such a better team.


----------



## osman

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

O'neal has look good so far tonight against the Bulls, he hasn't shot well, but he's getting to the FT line, and playing well on defense.


----------



## southeasy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

yeah he looked as quick tonight as i've seen him this season, played like 22 minutes, shot poor from the floor on some makeable moves, but got to the FT line for 6 attempts, blocked 2 shots, 7 points + 4 rebounds/3assists. good defence. he needs to work back into flow again but looked half decent.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> Can we do this freakin trade already?
> 
> I dont get why Chris Perkins of the PalmBeachPost is so against this trade...it makes perfect sense for both teams IMO. If JO goes down, he goes down - but if he stays up, its huge for us.
> 
> If he can put up 14 and 8-9 with a block or two, thatd make us a such a better team.


The Thunder game proved how much better we were when we get any production out of the center position. Magloire gave our perimeter players a lot more room to roam as the Thunder were halfway having to adjust to him down low.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Come on, get it done.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Sad when a guy like Jamaal Magloire can change our team so drastically.. :sigh:


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Jamaal has a bit left in the tank. Notmuch, but if we get in the playoffs, then I honestly feel there will be a moment in the fourth quarter of a close game where Jamaal Magloire will make a huge contribution. If he could still be playing big minutes, he'd start.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Alright, i've seen enough of Jermaine O'Neal. Make the trade before they decide to pull it off the table, Riles! :azdaja:

Right now he's got 11pts 10rbs 2ast 1blk in just under 20 minutes.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

In Riles we Trust.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Still waiting..


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Every day longer we wait, our chances of getting JO get slimmer, because he's playing very well right now.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Coming off of the bench... :whoknows:

I don't think we would've traded for a hurt JO. This situation is eerily parallel to the Shaq trade last year.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

when is the trade deadline? does anyone believe marion has been sitting out with an actual injurt or are they benching him cause he had a great double double road trip and want his value to stay as high as possible..?


----------



## Takeit2dahouse00

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> According to a league source, the Heat also is attempting to acquire Raptors second-year small forward Jamario Moon in the deal


.

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1572965.html


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Im not sure that would be too hard, or that we'd want him. According to Raps fans, he's taken a step back this year, and they're worried they've seen his best ball. He is 28 years old.

Id rather stick with Dorell, who projects to be a better player.


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Moon is pretty much Marion (very) lite. They play smilar styles, even though of course Marion is a lot better

I would feel a lot more comfortable plugging Moon into the hole at sf than Wright, Diawara, or Jones. We know what we would get. Wright is an injury risk who is so very inconsistent, Diawara is ok, and Jones has showed nothing since coming back. I wouldnt feel horrible with Diawara starting, but Moon would be a nice addition imo.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

i can live with moon.. even though i dont know his contract.. i dont see him being much of a hinderance except for our overstock on SF


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HeatBall said:


> i can live with moon.. even though i dont know his contract.. i dont see him being much of a hinderance except for our overstock on SF


Moon's got a $711,000 expiring contract. Dont know how that would affect the luxury tax situation.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

i think it depends on who we give away in the deal.. i believe if we make the trade and we end up being "over" the cap then we pay.. if we trade and we are under the cap then we should be fine...

if riley believes he can win a championship (which i doubt) i'm sure he wont mind going over the cap


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I've had atleast a few TO fans say they'd like or atleast wouldn't mind a Moon/Joel swap, so hopefully we can get that done then.

We don't need JO + Jamaal + Joel + Blount. And Blount isn't getting moved any time soon cause of his contract, so Joel's very expendable.


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

League sources indicate that the Heat are looking to acquire Jamario Moon in the rumored trade that would center around Jermaine O'Neal and Shawn Marion.

The New York Daily News has reported that the two teams have swapped medical records for both O'Neal and Marion. 

Both players are struggling with injuries currently. O'Neal is bothered by a sore knee, and Marion has missed games with a groin injury.


.......

The Raptors have moved Jermaine O'Neal to the bench, and GM Bryan Colangelo must decide before the Feb. 19 trade deadline if he's willing to keep him there.

"There's always a chance," O'Neal said of possibly being moved.

O'Neal played just 22 minutes against Sacramento on Sunday night as he teamed with Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani to dominate the paint.

"He's a veteran player," Coach Jay Triano said of O'Neal. "He'll come off the bench and still contribute for us. I like our rotation right now."

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap/


i agree with riley...give us moon ,u dont need him anyway...


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

seifer over at the TO board says the Raptors have a tough stretch coming up and thinks the Raptors might deal after this upcoming losing streak.

Hopefully, cause unless we've asked the Raptors to showcase JO for us, I think this deal is getting further away with each game he plays.

JO has been playing well enough for them recently though that they can afford to slow things down a little. We can too, but we'd much rather not with Marion sitting on the bench for whatever reason.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

This was already posted in the other thread eace:


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

*O'Neal still in limbo*


> EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Jermaine O'Neal smiled when I asked him where things stand with you-know-what.
> 
> "You mean the Miami thing," he said before the Raptors played the Nets Wednesday night.
> 
> Basically, O'Neal remains in limbo. He knows that Toronto would like to send him to Miami for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks in a trade that would free up the Raptors' offense for Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani. He knows Miami is watching him closely and studying his medical records to make sure his knees will hold up.
> 
> He knows it's nothing personal. No hard feelings toward Raptors G.M. Bryan Colangelo if the deal goes through.
> 
> "I'm just trying to get healthy, which has been the big issue for me the last couple of years," O'Neal said. The trade talk, he said, "doesn't bother me at all."
> 
> Colangelo is in wait-and-see mode, too. And he's not panicking. O'Neal has been effective coming off the bench the past three games after missing 11 of 12 to rest his bruised knee. Colangelo knows he has a valuable asset, because O'Neal's $23 million contract for next season expires in time for everyone to make a frenzied run at free agents in the summer of 2010. As of now, there's no deal with Miami. And while Colangelo waits for the Heat to decide whether to move forward with it, I'm told he's not actively shopping J.O. elsewhere. Two or three teams have inquired about him, and that only strengthens Colangelo's hand.
> 
> The Raptors are $222,000 under the luxury-tax threshold. Barring a trade proposal that blows Colangelo away, he's not inclined to push a team that entered Wednesday night 10 games under .500 over the punitive dollar-for-dollar tax.
> 
> In the meantime, O'Neal auditions for Miami and Colangelo smiles because he's contributing in a way that helps his team. And that only makes his $23 million expiring contract more valuable. At some point, something has to give.


----------



## Jace

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

O'Neal looked pretty good in the recent highlights I saw, but it seems he still obviously favoring the knee.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

I dont think we really have much to lose. Our C position is our weakest, we are winning without Marions 12 and 9 - and shedding Banks' contract in the process.

JO can only help.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

JO is apparently playing fairly well for TO right now.. Marion on the other hand.. :sigh:


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

ya i think brad miller right now is our only option...i dont know why they would get rid of jermain


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

i wouldnt say marion hasnt done much.. it sure doesnt "seem" like its a serious injury.. i think we are sitting him because we are winning and want to prevent him from getting injured.. but he last played gettin 3 double double out of 5 road games.. and missing his 4th double double by 1 rebound.. im pretty sure the NBA knows his value


----------



## Jace

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



MB30 said:


> I dont think we really have much to lose. Our C position is our weakest, we are winning without Marions 12 and 9 - and shedding Banks' contract in the process.
> 
> JO can only help.


My thoughts exactly. I was trying to explain this to someone at work today, actually.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



> • Entering the weekend, Toronto's Jermaine O'Neal had been productive as a reserve the past few games -- an encouraging sign as Miami seriously considers an O'Neal for Shawn Marion/ Marcus Banks trade.
> 
> ''O'Ñeal is still a low-post threat, but he likes taking fade-away jumpers,'' a veteran NBA scout said. ``He's still a good shot-blocker and will take charges. He would give them more of what they need than Marion.''
> 
> Keep in mind that O'Neal -- even at the inflated salary of $23 million next season -- probably would be better than anything the Heat could add in free agency on a one-year contract this summer. There would be no incentive for potential free agents Ron Artest and Mehmet Okur, among others, to take one-year deals, and the Heat -- with about $9 million in cap space this summer if it doesn't re-sign Marion -- wants to do nothing to reduce 2010 cap space.
> 
> • This is becoming a lost season for Heat forward Dorell Wright, who has played in only one game while working his way back from knee surgery. ''I can't let it get to me -- I'm only 23,'' he said. But Miami's decision to give Wright a two-year deal ($2.75 million this season and $2.75 million next) further reduced the Heat's 2009 cap space.


link


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

^ Very true, that whole quoted part.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

I still feel Dorell will provide SOMETHING in this 2nd half of the season. He may not be back till the All-Star break, but he's by far a superior player to Diawara (who needs to sit on the bench). Dorell is young - but he can defend and hit the J - 2 valuable components.

Jo for Marion needs to be done, we really have to take that deal. Even though our perimeter D has suffered these last 2 games - these are 2 teams that have routinely kicked our ***, so it wasnt unexpected that we would lose these 2. Some teams just have it over another - Pacers and Mavs have that against us.

If Cook is out for any extended period of time, we need to see more JJ and perhaps bring Dorell back soon, he's been practicing for a while...so we need to get him back into it if hes to be of any use for us.


----------



## Zuca

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Is Miami showcasing Mark Blount trying to convince Toronto to take him with Marion and Banks? (O'Neal/Kapono/Solomon for Marion/Blount/Banks/2nd rounder)


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Miami would hate a Blount-Kapono swap. It hurts our 2010 capspace.


----------



## Zuca

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



Flash is the Future said:


> Miami would hate a Blount-Kapono swap. It hurts our 2010 capspace.


C'mon, it's not that BIG of a hurt (2 millions), because your team will be sending Banks to Raps. And it's easier to trade Kapono for some expiring (or a cheaper contract) next season than Banks. These extra 2 millions doesn't destroy the 2010 plan.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



Zuca said:


> C'mon, it's not that BIG of a hurt (2 millions), because your team will be sending Banks to Raps. And it's easier to trade Kapono for some expiring (or a cheaper contract) next season than Banks. These extra 2 millions doesn't destroy the 2010 plan.


The large part of why we would do the deal with Toronto is in order to get rid of Banks and not have his 4 million at all, so taking back Kapono at 6 million would defeat the purpose of making the deal.

Aside from Beasley, Chalmers, and Cook and their rookie contracts we want absolutely no contracts on the books so that we have max cap room to entice up to 2 free agents. Kapono's 6 million is not acceptable. Banks is already an annoyance at only 4 million.

We don't even want Kapono. We have James Jones and Cook.


----------



## Zuca

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Even with his bad contract, I always thought that Banks biggest problem was the fact that he isn't a good player (although not a terrible one).


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



Zuca said:


> C'mon, it's not that BIG of a hurt (2 millions), because your team will be sending Banks to Raps. And it's easier to trade Kapono for some expiring (or a cheaper contract) next season than Banks. These extra 2 millions doesn't destroy the 2010 plan.


No, they don't. However, Kapono represents a hit of 6.8 million dollars because in the original deal we'd be sending out Banks without taking back Kapono...


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



Zuca said:


> Even with his bad contract, I always thought that Banks biggest problem was the fact that he isn't a good player (although not a terrible one).


That's his other problem. 

If we can dump Banks without taking back Kapono, we jump at that.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Stephen A. Smith: Bosh told Toronto he's not re-signing

It's about 2 minutes into the video. Steven A. Smith could be making all of this up, but who knows. I just really wanted a reason to bump that awesome trade I conceived a few weeks about.



Flash is the Future said:


> Let's assume that JO+Solomon for Marion+Banks (the simplest and most widely reported version of the JO+Marion trade) goes down and winds up being part of a bigger deal.
> 
> In this trade, the Heat takes on a mere 194k in salary this season so both teams skirt the tax. Miami would have an open roster spot to fill, and would be instant contenders. On the flip-side, Toronto rebuilds around Jose+Cook+Beasley+Bargnani with only 1 bad contract on the books (Banks). The threat of Bosh walking for nothing in 2010 has been replaced by Michael Beasley, Daequan Cook, Dorell Wright, James Jones, and a Kapono dump. Blount provides filler which expires in 2010.
> 
> *Miami Heat Trade/Toronto Raptors Receive:*
> Michael Beasley
> Shawn Marion
> Daequan Cook
> Dorell Wright
> James Jones
> Mark Blount
> Marcus Banks
> 
> *Miami Heat Receive/Toronto Raptors Trade:*
> Chris Bosh
> Jermaine O'Neal
> Jamario Moon
> Jason Kapono
> Will Solomon
> 
> http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...14~14~14~14~14~28~28~28~28~28~28~28&te=&cash=
> 
> *Miami Heat Roster:*
> PG: Mario Chalmers/Chris Quinn/Will Solomon
> SG: Dwyane Wade/Yakhouba Diawara
> SF: Jamario Moon/Jason Kapono
> PF: Chris Bosh/Udonis Haslem
> C: Jermaine O'Neal/Jamaal Magloire/Joel Anthony
> 
> *Toronto Raptors Roster:*
> PG: Jose Calderon/Marcus Banks/Roko Ukic
> SG: Daequan Cook/Anthony Parker/James Jones
> SF: Shawn Marion/Dorell Wright/Joey Graham
> PF: Michael Beasley/Kris Humphries/Nathan Jawai
> C: Andrea Bargnani/Mark Blount/Jake Voskuhl


I'm thinking of that Family guy episode where the Superstore comes to town and the only guy making money is the guy selling Tumbleweeds and he's screaming "Y'all said I was crazy!" eace:


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

But we lose the Beez 

But we gain the Bosh 

Man - this is as conflicting as the Shaq deal, we lost 3 of my favourite guys (Butler, Grant and Odom) but gained The Aristotle...still, I feel Beez will be just as good as Bosh in a few years...tough call.


----------



## Jace

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Thats a lot of players to trade in the middle of the season. Im not sure there aren't a lot of teams that match up better for this kind of trade.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Im sure Chris Bosh and Colangelo will come out tomorrow and say that it isnt true and that Chris is happy in Toronto and then give the same generic lines that Wade and Lebron have said about wanting to play out their contract then evaluate things when the time comes and blah, blah, blah..

What this will probably do is make the Raptors that much more desperate to make that trade with us so they can have that cap space for this upcoming summer. So here's hoping Riles somehow gets them to sweeten up the deal somehow


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

i dont think riley would do it...we could just wait til 2010 ,we know we can sign him without losing all those young talented players...this just sets it in stone that bosh will not re-sign with toronto no matter what...but without hesitation im doing that deal 1000/1000...instant contenders


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

If Bosh actually becomes available Beasley will be gone. I dont think Riles/Spo have ever really wanted him here, and their is no way in hell that they would choose him over a 6'11 (All-Star caliber) big man who averages 20/10.

Toronto trades - Bosh/Kapono

Miami trades - Beasley/Marion/Cook

Miami turns into a legit contender now and Toronto gets cap space to help build around Beasley, Bargnani, Calderon and Cook.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

we would need some bench help and a better SF that can provide better D than james jones and is not as sporadic as diawara..

Kapono can shoot.. but he is weak against speedy SF's that can drive to the basket.. he would need some help in that aspect..

I see us winning maybe 2-3 more games in the playoff's or advance MAYBE one extra round with that team.. but I don't see us winning anything this year, maybe next year.. but in 2010-2011 wade and bosh are both free to roam, I would have to be convinced that they would both stay for me to accept the trade..


----------



## Jace

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Yeah Id rather wait and keep my fingers crossed that if he gets traded, its to another team he wont re-sign with, and then signing him here in 2010. Its not worth giving up a future stud like Beasley, as well as Cook.

This should at least improve our leverage with the JO trade.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Chris Bosh and Bryan Colangelo deny the report..


> Chris Bosh couldn't have been more emphatic in shooting down an ESPN report that said he'd already told Raptors president and general manager that he wouldn't re-sign in Toronto when he contract expires in 2010.
> 
> "No. No. No, I haven't told him that," Bosh said today after practice.
> 
> And just to add another layer of denial, he was asked whether his agent could have made the statement.
> 
> "No," he said.
> 
> The apparently non-issue arose Sunday when ESPN entertainer Stephen A. Smith boldly stated that the 24-year-old Bosh had told team officials he was leaving in a season and a half, not even citing anonymous sources.
> 
> It brought a quick denial today from both Bosh and Colangelo.
> 
> "It was a surprise to me and I can't be responsible for what other people say so ...," said Bosh, his voice trailing off in disgust. "I understand people are entitled to an opinion but making stuff up? We can't do that.
> 
> "Let's all be fair."





> Colangelo also shot down another part of the report that suggested the Raptors might be amenable to trading the four-time all-star.
> 
> "There's no truth to the rumour or the speculation that he said anything to us in the organization, that he's going to be leaving," said the general manager. "There's no truth to the fact that he's on the trading block or being shopped in any regard.
> 
> "This is just another example of information that's out there that's not true ... There just doesn't seem to a lot of accountability with respect to the topic sometimes and that's why we're here today talking about it."
> 
> "It doesn't make me angry, it's like, 'come on, man,'" said Bosh. "I think it's unfair just to be able to say something and we have to be politically correct. It's tough, it's not the first time it's happened and it won't be the lat and I'm not the first person this has happened to. That's the business that we're in."


Link

That last quote about having to be politically correct is a little interesting


----------



## Adam

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

So we gut a team that right now may be the #4 seed in the East to bring in Bosh and best case scenario we end up...#4 in the East? This is stupid.

We're not better than Orlando, Cleveland, or Boston even if Bosh improved our team 10 fold. We have everything to lose (a #4 seed team) and nothing to gain (#3 seed is impossible). This is a lateral move at best.




Pros:

We have Bosh and Wade both for 2010 to entice LeBron.


Cons:

LeBron probably won't sign with us anyway.

Beasley projects to be better than Bosh who is only a 2nd tier PF behind Dirk, Duncan, and KG. Beasley can be at least as good as Dirk. Bosh is becoming vastly overrated.

We risk damaging a team that might be the #4 seed trying to improve it when the #3 seed is impossible.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

if bosh gets traded it will prolly be next year or before the draft.. i dont think Toronto is in a rush to trade him when he is putting up 20 and 10.. i think they will try and appease him with a trade to make his squad more competitive and hope to keep him after 2010 but i doubt it will work


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> If Bosh actually becomes available Beasley will be gone. I dont think Riles/Spo have ever really wanted him here, and their is no way in hell that they would choose him over a 6'11 (All-Star caliber) big man who averages 20/10.
> 
> Toronto trades - Bosh/Kapono
> 
> Miami trades - Beasley/Marion/Cook
> 
> Miami turns into a legit contender now and Toronto gets cap space to help build around Beasley, Bargnani, Calderon and Cook.


I don't think I'd be willing to include Cook. It just winds up being too much for us to give up IMO, unless they want to send us JO too.


----------



## Vivaldi

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

I would not treade Beasley for Bosh...no way. Beasley will be Bosh in a couple of years, plus if we really want Bosh we can just sign him in 2010....we have as good a shot to sign him as anyone else, and we wouldn't loose Bease

I also Believe that Wade + Bosh alone would not make win us a tittle...we need more than that. We'd also be loosing someone like cook who is one of our best up and coming players. I would not do it, specially with the possibility of Bosh (or heaven forbid Wade) or both! bolting in 2010 if it doesn't work out.


----------



## myst

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Here is an update


The Clippers announcers just said that Jermaine O'Neal was in town to get a physical sometime in the last 5 days.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



myst said:


> Here is an update
> 
> 
> The Clippers announcers just said that Jermaine O'Neal was in town to get a physical sometime in the last 5 days.


I just cant see how they'd know that yet no one down here or in Toronto has reported that.


----------



## Vivaldi

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

^ word lol


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Interesting if true though.


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

very...i hope he's right...and all of a sudden were showcasing marion...


----------



## Ben

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

I'm sure we would have had a report if that was true, but regardless, I hope it is, I want something to go down, seeing as we don't need Marion at all.


----------



## Jace

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Someone on the heat.com board said they saw him at Doctor's Hospital.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Jermaine O'Neal started today in the Raptors loss to the Cavs and had 20pts on 9-15 and 8rbs in 37 minutes.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Make the deal, Riles.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*

Hell, Bosh may want out...

Marion + Banks + 1st Rounder for Bosh = Do it Riles.

:sparta:


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

We arent getting Bosh. Especially not for that deal ^ 

Although, lets daydream a little

Chalmers
Wade
Jones
Beasley
Bosh

6th men: Haslem, Cook

*faints with love*


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Zo is in studio today on NBA tv with Ahmad Rashad and GP and he supposedly said that he sees this deal going down at some point.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> We arent getting Bosh. Especially not for that deal ^


T'was a joke. Unless the Raptors are willing to look worse than the Grizzlies did following the Pau Gasol trade, any trade would have to include Michael Beasley, which is a no no.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

grizzlies did the pau trade cause they already had Marc locked up...


trade wouldnt go through.. i believe the heat traded their first round pick next year in the shaq deal..


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Miami owed one 1st rounder in the Shaq deal (Jordan Farmar in 2006). We owe our 2009 pick to the Timberwolves from the Ricky Davis trade, though, but we have all of our other picks.


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Jermaine had a HUGE game today

20+, 9 boards, 4 assists, 9 BLOCKS

he is playing himself out of our range....... I dont see us having a chance at him....should of got him when he was out and his value was low.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Bosh hurt his knee. Hopefully he's alright.

This is from Ira from just minutes ago in his post game blog



> As solid as Jermaine O'Neal was for the Raptors on Wednesday night, Toronto still remains more than willing to deal. The question for the Heat remains if it is willing to give up what Marion could provide the balance of the season.
> 
> And, yes, the Heat has been scouting O'Neal in recent games.


Link


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

O'Neal has been playing well of late. 9 Blocks is very nice.

If Bosh is down for any significant amount of time, I cant see them dealing Jermaine. If its just a 1-2 game thing - I can see a deal going down real soon.

Good to hear Heat scouts are present.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Well the trade deadline is just 2 weeks away so i'm hoping we hear more about this deal in the coming days.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Can you imagine how many blocks Jermaine would get with our defensive scheme?


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I am nervous how JO has played lately. It is not so much I don't think they are willing to deal now, but they might try to have a stare down and demand another piece like Cook or Joel Anthony to make this trade happen. Hopefully Riles has Colangelo up aginst the wall, because Banks and Marion is not worth giving up the recent play of JO. If Riles can still pull it off, that would be awesome.JO would be such a good fit here with more help on both ends of the court and quality players to rest him.

BTW, the Heat board must be the most actice on the site... Twenty pages discussing a prospective trade in-season? That has to be unheard of.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Smithian said:


> I am nervous how JO has played lately. It is not so much I don't think they are willing to deal now, but they might try to have a stare down and demand another piece like Cook or Joel Anthony to make this trade happen. Hopefully Riles has Colangelo up aginst the wall, because Banks and Marion is not worth giving up the recent play of JO. If Riles can still pull it off, that would be awesome.JO would be such a good fit here with more help on both ends of the court and quality players to rest him.
> 
> BTW, the Heat board must be the most actice on the site... Twenty pages discussing a prospective trade in-season? That has to be unheard of.


JO is inconsistent and charmin soft.

His recent play wont hold up and thats why Toronto is looking to ship him out.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

^^^^^
i think thats why riles initially benches marion.. 
3 out of 4 road games with a double double and u bench the guy to keep his value at its peak.. Now cook got injured so we needed him to play so he does, his value might go down but riles understands we have a chance to push for the playoffs and he won't minimize his chances just to get a trade off


----------



## Mr_B

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> JO is inconsistent and charmin soft.
> 
> His recent play wont hold up and thats why Toronto is looking to ship him out.


Actually were looking to trade him because Bargnani finally turning into the player we expected when we drafted him and with an obvious hole at the 2/3 JO our only tradeable player(Colangelo has stated Bosh,Barg and Calderon are off limits) , if Barg played like this last year the JO trade would never happen


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

On behalf of most Heat fans, I'd like to welcome Ira Winderman on the Jermaine O'Neal trade bandwagon. Its about time Ira eace:

*How itchy is that trigger finger?*


> If nothing else, it is clear the Heat has done its due diligence on Jermaine O'Neal, being it reserving scouting space at Tuesday's Raptors-Cavalier game (it doesn't play either team for a month) or reportedly secreting O'Neal into town for a physical.
> 
> Factor in Wednesday's solid showing against the Lakers by O'Neal, which included nine blocks, and it's safe to say the Heat has all the information it needs to make an informed decision.
> 
> Understand, the Raptors remain more than willing to do an O'Neal-Shawn Marion deal. So it basically comes down to the Heat.
> 
> And that makes it time to pull the trigger, especially after getting punked off the boards by ancient Antonio McDyess on Wednesday night in Detroit. Yes, Marion was part of a pesky defense that helped the Heat climb back into that loss. But the Heat has endured well enough this season amid Marion's absences.
> 
> Plus, with a shot-blocker in place, it could allow for time for Michael Beasley at small forward, with a second line of defense available for the expected blow-bys.
> 
> With the Raptors in a freefall, unloading Marcus Banks in the package shouldn't be a problem. Securing a draft pick, however, might be overstepping matters.
> 
> The downside would be practically no flexibility under the 2010 luxury tax, when counting O'Neal's $23 million, Dwyane Wade's $16 million, Mark Blount's $8 million, Udonis Haslem's $7 million as well as the combined $9 million of Beasley and James Jones. In fact, factor in the smaller amounts guaranteed in 2009-10 to Dorell Wright, Daequan Cook, Chris Quinn, Yakhouba Diawara and Mario Chalmers and the Heat would have room for nothing beyond minimum contracts come next season.
> 
> So, is that 11-player group good enough to be all there is for both the remainder of this season and all of next season?


----------



## myst

*Re: Jamario Moon or no deal...Toronto may even like Jermaine off bench?*



Beast said:


> I'm sure we would have had a report if that was true, but regardless, I hope it is, I want something to go down, seeing as we don't need Marion at all.


From Ira



> If nothing else, it is clear the Heat has done its due diligence on Jermaine O'Neal, being it reserving scouting space at Tuesday's Raptors-Cavalier game (it doesn't play either team for a month) or *reportedly secreting O'Neal into town for a physical*.


Guess they were right.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I would be happy with that group (baring injuries) for the remainder of this season and the next.


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Here is what Ira thinks about trading Beasley for Bosh



> Q: Hi Ira, ESPN's Chad Ford wrote, when speaking about Bosh trade rumors, "I wonder if a Miami deal that sent Michael Beasley, Shawn Marion's expiring contract and perhaps a future first or Daequan Cook might do it? If I was Pat Riley I'd jump all over that. A Bosh, Wade connection would be awesome." I was wondering what your take on this is. -- Aron.
> 
> A: I would do that in a heartbeat. But I believe Toronto could get more elsewhere, at least in terms of a proven commodity in place of Chris. Still, can't see the Raptors moving Bosh any time soon.


So for all of you that think Beasley and Marion are too much, Ira would do it even with Cook or a first round pick.

Like I said, I would do it, but with Beasley and Marion only.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

i wouldnt get rid of beasley man.. too much upside..


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Can we just do this trade already - O'Neal would help us SOOOO much.

Im not under the illusion he's the Jermaine of old, but even a 30yr old Jermaine putting up 14 and 7 with 2 blocks is an upgrade for us. I think he'd actually provide more for us than he does for the Raptors.

Make it happen Riles.


----------



## Vivaldi

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

this can't happen soon enough.

Even if it doesn't work out, we're not loosing much in marrion...he's just not doing anything for us.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

^ He played well last game, but consider that Marion is averaging 11-12 and 8-9 per game. In around 36 minutes.

Then consider Beasley is at 13-14, 5-6 per game in 24 minutes.

Bottom line: We have 3 quality PF's. Something's gotta give. That something is Marion.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

*Sources: Suns ponder deals for Stoudemire
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports 
6 hours, 16 minutes ago*

_Perhaps signaling a willingness to dismantle their roster, the Phoenix Suns have begun exchanging trade proposals with teams for All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire, league executives told Yahoo! Sports on Thursday.

With dysfunction and dissension reigning within the Suns, rival front-office executives believe general manager Steve Kerr is determined to move Stoudemire and others before the Feb. 19 trade deadline.

While Stoudemire, 26, is the Suns’ most valuable asset, sources say Kerr has told teams that he’s willing to trade anyone on his roster except for point guard Steve Nash.


“Everyone is on the table but Nash,” one executive said.

Phoenix owner Robert Sarver has been more reluctant to part with Stoudemire and still hasn’t yet given his blessing to act on a Stoudemire proposal. Nevertheless, most believe that Sarver will inevitably do so.

While there will likely be some interest in a rejuvenated Shaquille O’Neal, it is Stoudemire, the enigmatic 6-foot-10, 250-pound forward, whom most NBA teams have an interest in acquiring.


If Kerr and assistant GM David Griffin do trade Stoudemire, a four-time All-Star, they want a combination of expiring contracts, a talented young player – preferably a forward – and draft picks. Stoudemire is expected to opt out of his contract for the historic free-agent summer of 2010. He makes $15 million this season and $16.3 million next season. His relationship with Suns management has steadily deteriorated and few expect that either side is interested in a contract extension.


Phoenix made the biggest move of the trade deadline a year ago, trading Shawn Marion for Shaquille O’Neal in a deal that the Suns believed could help them overtake the San Antonio Spurs and Los Angeles Lakers in the Western Conference. Yet, the Suns lost to the Spurs in the first round of the playoffs, which turned into a prelude to an acrimonious exit with coach Mike D’Antoni.

This season, Phoenix has struggled to a 26-21 record, which leaves them tied for the final playoff spot in the Western Conference. The Suns were blown out Wednesday night in Golden State, 124-112.


With O’Neal clogging the middle, Stoudemire has expressed frustration with a diminished offensive role. Stoudemire still flusters his GM and coach because of an unwillingness to commit to anything but scoring. Stoudemire’s scoring and rebounding averages have dropped this season, and he recently told Yahoo! Sports that he was struggling with an offense that features fewer pick-and-rolls for him, fewer touches in the low post.

“It is harder,” Stoudemire said. “When you’re in the flow, everything flows. When you’re not, sometimes it’s hard to get involved.”

After the loss to Golden State, Stoudemire told reporters, “To keep losing these games the way we are, it’s not fun. I’m not used to it. It’s almost against my religion.”

Sources believe the Suns are more apt to shop Stoudemire to the Eastern Conference, where Toronto and New York are natural possibilities. Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo drafted Stoudemire for the Suns, and Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni helped turn him into an All-Star. Still, the acrimonious nature of Colangelo’s and D’Antoni’s departures could lessen Phoenix management’s willingness to deal with them.


Nevertheless, Phoenix promises once more be at the center of the league’s biggest trade talks leading up to the deadline._

Look what we have here...very very interesting


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



myst said:


> Here is what Ira thinks about trading Beasley for Bosh
> 
> 
> 
> So for all of you that think Beasley and Marion are too much, Ira would do it even with Cook or a first round pick.
> 
> Like I said, I would do it, but with Beasley and Marion only.


Well Ira isn't exactly Beasley's biggest fan and when James Jones went down in pre-season he said we didn't have any three point shooters and he made fun of Cook about him getting important shots in those pre-season games. Look at what he wrote about Cook back then which I had to call him out on http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2008/10/three-out-only.html

The Heat's local media has a tendency to be too obedient with the company. They say a lot of things that are clearly not true. Haslem is a first ballot hall of famer according to the Miami media


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

But Ira is right, you trade Beasley for Bosh 10 times out of 10. We "know" Beasley will be special. But Bosh IS special.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Want a crazy trade?

Phoenix Trades - 

Amare
Hill
Lopez

Phoenix Receives - 

Dorell Wright
Will Solomon
Joel Anthony
Chris Bosh


Toronto Trades - 

Chris Bosh
Will Solomon
Joey Graham
Jermaine O'Neal

Toronto receives - 

Amare Stoudemire
Shawn Marion
Marcus Banks
Grant Hill

Miami Trades - 

Shawn Marion
Marcus Banks
Joel Anthony
Dorell Wright

Miami receives - 

Jermaine O'Neal
Robin Lopez
Joey Graham



Lineups - Phoenix:

PG - Nash
SG - Richardson
SF - Barnes
PF - Bosh
C - Shaq

Toronto:

PG - Calderon
SG - Parker
SF - Marion
PF - Stoudemire
C - Bargnani


Miami:

PG - Chalmers
SG - Wade
SF - Graham
PF - Haslem/Beasley
C - O'Neal


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



myst said:


> But Ira is right, you trade Beasley for Bosh 10 times out of 10. We "know" Beasley will be special. But Bosh IS special.


Bosh is not really all that "special." He is a 2nd tier PF behind KG, Dirk, and Duncan and he has been vastly overrated of late. He is completely healthy and in his prime and has far more talent around him than any of the other top PF's yet he can't win games. 

With Beasley we are 1 game away from the #4 spot. With Bosh we are still not better than Orlando, Cleveland, or Boston so we are still #4. And then when you talk about throwing Cook in when Beasley himself is having a better rookie year than Bosh did that is a deal breaker.


----------



## SKiP

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

The most I would do is a Beasley, Marion, Banks and Blount for Bosh and Oneal deal.

Heat
PG - Chalmers
SG - Wade / Cook
SF - Jones 
PF - Bosh / Haslem
C - O'neal

Raps
PG - Calderon
SG - Parker
SF - Marion / Kapono
PF - Beasley / Humphries
C - Bargnani


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I know what Ira is saying, but with Bosh hurt now I dont see the Raps so eager to trade O'Neal, especially with his play as of late........

im getting worried the longer time goes, the less likely this trade has of going through. And hell, it would be the most rumored trade ever to not go through.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Looks like Riles is leaving no stone unturned. Now Marc Stein reports that he's talk to the Hornets about a deal for Tyson Chandler..


> A deal for Toronto's Jermaine O'Neal remains readily available to the Miami Heat. The Sacramento Kings likewise would still love to send Brad Miller to Miami for Shawn Marion as long as they don't have to take back Marcus Banks, too.
> 
> And word comes now that another matter for Miami to consider is the prospect of sending Marion to New Orleans for a package headlined by Tyson Chandler.
> 
> There have been no firm indications that such a swap is imminent, but it's a scenario mentioned more than once in the past week. And that's probably because acquiring Chandler would be consistent with Pat Riley's well-known preference to bring back proven size if he parts with Marion's $17.8 million expiring contract before the deadline.
> 
> The Heat, however, are just as determined not to take back contracts that extend past the 2009-10 season, which would seem to rule this out as a possibility, given that Chandler has a $13.2 million player option for 2010-11 that he is certain to exercise.
> 
> Is Chandler good enough for Riley to bend his 2010 policy? Would he sufficiently fill Miami's void inside and give Dwyane Wade more reason to re-sign with the Heat in the summer of 2010? Debatable.
> 
> There are cons for the Hornets, as well. Can they really part with a big man of Chandler's ability, given how little they have behind Chandler and David West, for a player who could leave them in free agency this summer?
> 
> Yet sources close to the situation refuse to rule out Chandler's departure. Chris Paul and West, sources say, are the Hornets' only two untouchables.
> 
> Chandler is an elite defensive force at his best, but his dip in performance this season -- which began before the 26-year-old's recent ankle problem -- is undeniable. Factor in New Orleans' own well-known desire to join the clutch of teams trying to slash payroll and its long-standing interest in acquiring an athletic wing man to partner with Paul and West, and you can see why Marion's name comes up.
> 
> Miami, meanwhile, continues to pursue Dallas' Josh Howard, in spite of Mark Cuban's insistence that the Mavs won't do a Howard-for-Marion trade.


Link


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Listen, all of you guys saying we have to do this JO trade asap, you are wrong. We have one of the biggest, if not the biggest trade chip out there. A $17 million dollar expiring contact, with a player that can actually contribute to the team getting them. So this isn't like Raef Lafrentz's expiring that teams want him just for cap space. I hope Riley waits until the trade deadline to trade him after trying to get as much as he can for him. If we can't get a Bosh type player, then we go for the other trades out there available to us. But don't just settle, we are in a position of power here.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Looks like Riles is leaving no stone unturned. Now Marc Stein reports that he's talk to the Hornets about a deal for Tyson Chandler..
> 
> Link


:shocked: 

C'mon Riles, work your magic again.


----------



## Seven

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Chris Bosh rookie stats - 11.5 PPG 7.4 RPG 1.4 BPG in 33.5 minutes
Michael Beasley rookie stats - 13.5 PPG 5.5 RPG in 24.6 minutes


----------



## mo76

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



The '93 Heat said:


> Bosh is not really all that "special." He is a 2nd tier PF behind KG, Dirk, and Duncan and he has been vastly overrated of late. He is completely healthy and in his prime and has far more talent around him than any of the other top PF's yet he can't win games.
> 
> With Beasley we are 1 game away from the #4 spot. With Bosh we are still not better than Orlando, Cleveland, or Boston so we are still #4. And then when you talk about throwing Cook in when Beasley himself is having a better rookie year than Bosh did that is a deal breaker.


No, your wrong, bosh is as good right now as any of those players. You should base your opinion on watching him play (more than just one game), not "he can't win" BS.


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

go after amare...

The Phoenix Suns have begun exchanging trade proposals with teams for forward Amare Stoudemire, league executives told Yahoo! Sports on Thursday.

Steve Kerr apparently is determined to move Stoudemire ahead of the deadline.

“Everyone is on the table but (Steve) Nash,” one executive said.

Stoudemire is expected to opt out of his contract for the historic free-agent summer of 2010 and his relationship with the front office has reached a point where neither side wants him to be in Phoenix beyond 2010.


Heat Trade - 
marion 
banks 
beasley
haslem

heat recieve-
Jo
Amare 
Moon

Pheonix trade
amare

pheonix recieve - 
beasley and haslem

toronto trade - 
JO
moon

toronto recieve - 
marion and banks


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Ira doesnt seem keen on the Chandler trade, but I dont think we'd do much better in 2010. He's actually my number one realistic target that year. So what he doesn't have a legit post game? Few centers do nowadays. Beasley's offense will eventually make up for it.

Interesting that we're going hard after Howard.

No Amare, please.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> go after amare...
> 
> The Phoenix Suns have begun exchanging trade proposals with teams for forward Amare Stoudemire, league executives told Yahoo! Sports on Thursday.
> 
> Steve Kerr apparently is determined to move Stoudemire ahead of the deadline.
> 
> “Everyone is on the table but (Steve) Nash,” one executive said.
> 
> Stoudemire is expected to opt out of his contract for the historic free-agent summer of 2010 and his relationship with the front office has reached a point where neither side wants him to be in Phoenix beyond 2010.
> 
> 
> Heat Trade -
> marion
> banks
> beasley
> haslem
> 
> heat recieve-
> Jo
> Amare
> Moon
> 
> Pheonix trade
> amare
> 
> pheonix recieve -
> beasley and haslem
> 
> toronto trade -
> JO
> moon
> 
> toronto recieve -
> marion and banks


You want to trade a young stud for 2 big men with horrible/chronic knee problems?

Amare isnt worth it!


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

how is amare not worth it? knee injury was 2 1/2 yrs ago, we need to keep wade happy and by keeping him happy is competing NOW!! not hoping beasley developes to the level we want him 2...if we could get amare for beasley you would be foolish not to pull the trigger!!! and i love beasley more than wade ..and i still would do it

08-09 avg 21.8 and 8 boards (and so far has played in all 47 games|)
07-08 avg 25 and 9 (played in 79 games)
07-06 avg 20 and 9 (played in all 82)


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> how is amare not worth it? knee injury was 2 1/2 yrs ago, we need to keep wade happy and by keeping him happy is competing NOW!! not hoping beasley developes to the level we want him 2...if we could get amare for beasley you would be foolish not to pull the trigger!!! and i love beasley more than wade ..and i still would do it
> 
> 08-09 avg 21.8 and 8 boards (and so far has played in all 47 games|)
> 07-08 avg 25 and 9 (played in 79 games)
> 07-06 avg 20 and 9 (played in all 82)


Amare is a dunking machine and thats it! He doesnt defend, board or even block shots all that well. To make matters worse he has yet to show that he is still the dominant force he was before the surgery.


----------



## SKiP

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Wade and Beasley are good enough on offense that we don't need a 3rd scorer, so Chandler would be a good player to get. I have no idea why the Hornets want to trade him though... We would be set at pg, sg, pf, and c for the next 10 years. Plus we have Cook's lights out shooting off the bench.

Heat
PG - Chalmers
SG - Wade / Cook
SF - ?
PF - Beasley
C - Chandler

The O'neal trade is my 2nd favorite deal that I've heard of.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



SKiP said:


> Wade and Beasley are good enough on offense that we don't need a 3rd scorer, so Chandler would be a good player to get. *I have no idea why the Hornets want to trade him though...* We would be set at pg, sg, pf, and c for the next 10 years. Plus we have Cook's lights out shooting off the bench.
> 
> Heat
> PG - Chalmers
> SG - Wade / Cook
> SF - ?
> PF - Beasley
> C - Chandler
> 
> The O'neal trade is my 2nd favorite deal that I've heard of.


According to Hornets fans', Chandler hasn't been the same TC around the rim this season.

He'd be a great pick-up for us, especially for Marion who I relaly don't believe is helping us at all even when he does play. I don't know about his contract though, I'm guessing it runs a season past 2010? If so, we'd have to make a decision on whether or not Beasley can be our 2nd scorer or not (he'd probably have to be atleast a David West).


----------



## Rather Unique

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

^ in regards to the Chandler contract question, he has a 13 mil player option for the 2010-2011 season, which most people think he would exercise, as he most likely would not get more than that.


----------



## Vivaldi

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

No To Chandler!

No To *anything *that ****s With 2010


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I don't think TC would be the same without Chris Paul. Mario Chalmers is a good floor general and Wade is a good penetrator and.above average creator, but neither is as good as Chris Paul at setting up big men. Plus, I really don't feel like Chandler is the willing banger and big body we want. Plus, he takes us out of contention in 2010.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I dont know man, I think Chandler is almost the perfect center for this team. What real banger can we possibly get? Chandler would rebound, guard the basket, and play interior defense to the level we need. With Beasley next to him on the block, scoring wouldn't be too much of an issue. We may not have Chris Paul, but we're one of the few teams in the league that has the luxury of having both members of our back court be able to create effectively. We don't need our C putting up All-Star numbers by himself.

That said, the only trade that really seems to work with NO is Marion for Chandler and a Rasual Butler reunion. He's been coming on strong for them though, so Im not sure if theyd want to part with him also.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> Although sources close to the situation insist that no deal is imminent, there is a growing belief around the league that the Suns will almost certainly move at least one of their big names before the league's Feb. 19 trading deadline, with Stoudemire sounding as though he expects to be the next to leave in comments Friday to reporters in Phoenix.
> 
> The Arizona Republic, in a story posted Friday on its Web site, quoted Stoudemire as saying: "I know for sure, wherever I go, we're going to definitely be playoff contenders. I bring a lot to the table." *Sources told ESPN.com that the Chicago Bulls, Miami Heat, Detroit Pistons and Portland Trail Blazers are among the many teams with whom Phoenix has exchanged trade concepts, with the Bulls and Heat believed to be pursuing Stoudemire hardest at this early stage.*
> 
> Almost every team in the league has some degree of interest in Stoudemire, but sources close to the process maintain that the Suns will only part with the 26-year-old in a deal that delivers at least one decent-sized expiring contract along with younger talent and/or draft considerations.


Link

We definitely have what the Suns are looking for in Beasley and Marion, but the question is, does Riles pull the trigger or not if he has the opportunity?


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If were going to trade Beasley (which im against) why not do it for Bosh who comes without the surgically repaired knee? If we max out Amare and that knee falls apart...we can kiss Wade goodbye in 2010.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I can't believe we'd move Beasley when Beasley has shown in short minutes he is not very far from being an automatic 20/10 himself along with being reasonably younger than Amar'e.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'm very iffy on trading Beasley. Its tough cause you see the talent he has and you know that he's gonna turn into a special player one day but the question is how long will it take?

I can definitely see the reasons for wanting a guy like Amare. You look at him having an "off" year and yet he's putting up 21ppg on 53% and 9rbs with the offense going mostly through Nash and Shaq. Of course he's had many questions this season on laziness and rebounding and it doesnt help that he pretty much threw the team captain, Steve Nash, under the bus.

Just last season, Amare put up 25 on 59%, 9rpg and 2blks. Will Mike ever get to that level? PPG and rebounding wise he definitely has the chance. I doubt he'll ever be a high FG% guy with him being the type of mid range shooter that he is.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Meanwhile, Jermaine O'Neal had another solid outing with 24pts on 10-16, 6rbs, 3asts, 1blk in 38 minutes.

This is still the deal I hope we do, if its still available to us.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Along with Marion, I'd throw in just about anything for Amare. But Marion + Beasley is a no-go if thats the case.

And if we were to make such a high-value trade, we should definately look at all other candidates (eg. Bosh).


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> If were going to trade Beasley (which im against) why not do it for Bosh who comes without the surgically repaired knee? If we max out Amare and that knee falls apart...we can kiss Wade goodbye in 2010.


I'm sure Riley is looking at everything that could be available, including Bosh.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Have we just abandoned talks for Camby? They have a glut at center. Camby is 2010 friendly and gives us everything we don't have. Camby may be playing hard in LA right now, but I think he'd go beast mode in Miami if he were here considering he'd make us a championship contender.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Amare for Marion/Beasley doesnt work under the cap. If this deal goes down Riles better get Barbosa as well!

C - Amare/Magloire/Blount
PF - Haslem/Anthony
SF - Jones/Diawara
SG - Wade/Cook
PG - Chalmers/Barbosa

I love our backcourt but we would be paper thin at forward in general.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Smithian said:


> Have we just abandoned talks for Camby? They have a glut at center. Camby is 2010 friendly and gives us everything we don't have. Camby may be playing hard in LA right now, but I think he'd go beast mode in Miami if he were here considering he'd make us a championship contender.


Camby makes $8million this year so it would take about half of their roster to equal up to a trade for Shawn Marion.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> Amare for Marion/Beasley doesnt work under the cap. If this deal goes down Riles better get Barbosa as well!
> 
> C - Amare/Magloire/Blount
> PF - Haslem/Anthony
> SF - Jones/Diawara
> SG - Wade/Cook
> PG - Chalmers/Barbosa
> 
> I love our backcourt but we would be paper thin at forward in general.


Barbosa has too big and long of a contract for me. But I cant see another contract on their roster that would work in that trade.

The more I look at it, the less chances I see of making a trade with them.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Camby makes $8million this year so it would take about half of their roster to equal up to a trade for Shawn Marion.


We could take Jamal Crawford too!!!!!! I am sure it would equal then. :lol:

But, seriously, if we'd like to make the move, Riley could probably find a way to make it happen. I can't think of a player more than Marcus Camby who would make us a contender right now as well as being 2010 friendly.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> Amare for Marion/Beasley doesnt work under the cap. If this deal goes down Riles better get Barbosa as well!
> 
> C - Amare/Magloire/Blount
> PF - Haslem/*Anthony*
> SF - Jones/Diawara
> SG - Wade/Cook
> PG - Chalmers/Barbosa
> 
> I love our backcourt but we would be paper thin at forward in general.


I am the big Joel Anthony fan/apologist on this board, but if he is a legit rotation guy for us at PF, we have problems. Great situation defensive center, but horrible idea to ever play at PF.


----------



## sknydave

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

ew


----------



## Ras

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Smithian said:


> We could take Jamal Crawford too!!!!!! I am sure it would equal then. :lol:
> 
> But, seriously, if we'd like to make the move, Riley could probably find a way to make it happen. I can't think of a player more than Marcus Camby who would make us a contender right now as well as being 2010 friendly.


I don't think Camby would put you up in the stratosphere of Cleveland, LA and Boston (and Orlando with Jameer), so I wouldn't exactly say he'd make you championship contenders. 


Also, in terms of the whole Amare/Bosh/Beasley deal, if you're trying to win now, wouldn't it be better to trade the young, unproven guy for a guy who's definitely there already. When Bosh's interest was really there at the beginning of the season, he was playing like a top-10 player easily. Beasley has a chance to never even make it to that point, why would you not trade him for Bosh?


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

DO IT RILEY!!!

3 team deal miami,pheonix,toronto

Miami trades - 
haslem
banks
marion
beasley
blount

Miami rec-
amare
JO
Moon
r.lopez

Toronto trades
moon
JO

Toronto REC - 
marion
banks

Pheonix trades -
Rlopez
amare

pheonix REC
haslem 
beasley 
blount 

chalmers/quinn/resign livingston
wade/cook/diawara
moon/james jones/wright
amare/magloire/anthony
JO/rlopez

that will compete for a title


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Ras said:


> I don't think Camby would put you up in the stratosphere of Cleveland, LA and Boston (and Orlando with Jameer), so I wouldn't exactly say he'd make you championship contenders.
> 
> 
> Also, in terms of the whole Amare/Bosh/Beasley deal, if you're trying to win now, wouldn't it be better to trade the young, unproven guy for a guy who's definitely there already. When Bosh's interest was really there at the beginning of the season, he was playing like a top-10 player easily. Beasley has a chance to never even make it to that point, why would you not trade him for Bosh?


Going by that logic, lets say that it's 2004 and Toronto offers us Vince Carter for Wade are we supposed to take it? For argument's sake assume that Vince is 100% healthy. How about Seattle offers us Ray Allen? What if Sacramento offers us Peja who is a top 3 MVP candidate that year?

We're just supposed to take the deal without any consideration for the future? So Cleveland should have traded LeBron for a proven top 10 player during draft night despite his potential?

The fact of the matter is that Beasley was the #1 player in his class coming out of high school. He has been penciled in for great things for a long time. He probably would have been a top 3 pick as a junior in high school. If not for the age limit he would have been the #1 pick if he and Rose had not gone to college.

Even with all the growing pains, Beasley's Per 36 numbers: 19.7 PPG and 8 TRB. Amare's Per 36 numbers: 20.0 PPG and 8 TRB. Seriously Ras, are you kidding me right now? Amare might now even be better than Beasley in Beasley's rookie year, yet we're supposed to deal for him and ignore the future? What would have happened if we did Wade for Vince?

Let's not forget that Amare plays ZERO defense and we're probably the most demanding defensive team in the league. Beasley since the foul troubles in November, has been playing very well on defense. His rotations are crisp and he gives maximum effort (full out sprinting) on them and he is getting there early. Amare not only can't do that, he won't do that. He has no desire to play defense and even if he did it's too late for him because he has a lifetime of bad habits.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Ras said:


> I don't think Camby would put you up in the stratosphere of Cleveland, LA and Boston (and Orlando with Jameer), so I wouldn't exactly say he'd make you championship contenders.


Considering the Heat have beaten Cleveland, Orlando, and LA in the regular season, it isn't like there is a huge differential between us. Boston? Yeah, but Dallas also blew us out in the regular season.

Miami's losses are due a lot of the time to be simply mauled on the boards(Ex; Jermaine O'Neal, Antonio McDyess, too many to name)... You give the Heat a guy like Marcus Camby or JO down low to equal things out, not only are we a much better team, but Dwyane Wade has proven that he can take over close games like noone else in the league in clutch situations.

The Heat are a darkhorse right now and could make some noise with shooting and ANY contribution from the center position. We're not some mid level team hoping to get pass the first round. Those hopes left when we beat LA on ESPN back in December... We have the ability to beat anyone on any given night.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'll be extremely disappointed in this franchise if we make this deal. Amare by himself is not better than having Beasley + Jermaine O'Neal. This would be too much tinkering just like the Danilovic for Mashburn trade a decade ago which probably cost us a championship.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'll be very upset if we make that deal... Very. I just hope Riley is smart enough to know there is nothing like a home grown superstar. Beasley could be that.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

So I guess we all feel the same then. Get Jermaine O'Neal and call it a day.


----------



## Takeit2dahouse00

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

This is what Riley is working on.. Which is why he turned down Beasley, Marion for Amare...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3418~70~510~1767~984~1727&teams=21~21~3~14~14~14&te=&cash=


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Your crazy. ^


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



The '93 Heat said:


> Going by that logic...


Phenomenal post. This says it all. Those per 36 numbers actually surprised me a little bit, but it seems about right. Beasley will be a beast. He's already showing signs. I don't think we'll have to wait much longer. His personality may not have always been in line with what Riley wants, but how could Amare's be? We have the opportunity to nurture a PF stud in a very refined, disciplined system, and he's already showing that he's acquiescing to the teachings. Watching the games, its so easy to see how Beasley can be worlds better, especially if you watched him in college. He's growing up before our eyes already. Why trade that for a guy with irreversible bad habits?


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> • The Heat is exploring a possible trade for Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire -- one reason why Miami has held off on the Jermaine O'Neal/ Shawn Marion trade with Toronto. New Orleans has been pursuing Marion (ESPN mentioned Tyson Chandler; another official said Peja Stojakovic and Hilton Armstrong were discussed), but either scenario would reduce Miami's 2010 salary-cap space, which the Heat opposes.


Link


----------



## SKiP

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Is Hilton Armstrong any good?


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I think Chandler is the perfect fit next to Beasley. We talked about this already. The odds that we pull Bron in 2010 is too slim. Virtually impossible. We looked at the FA list of 2010 and aside of Amare, Bosh, Bron, there isn't much.

Bease + Bosh is not a good idea nor Bease + STAT either.
I say go for the TC deal and we can still get an All Star wingman to put beside Wade without having to pay max money.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Dee-Zy said:


> I think Chandler is the perfect fit next to Beasley. We talked about this already. The odds that we pull Bron in 2010 is too slim. Virtually impossible. We looked at the FA list of 2010 and aside of Amare, Bosh, Bron, there isn't much.
> 
> Bease + Bosh is not a good idea nor Bease + STAT either.
> I say go for the TC deal and we can still get an All Star wingman to put beside Wade without having to pay max money.


Chandler is making $11.5 million for averaging 9pts 8reb 1.5blk in 30+mpg, and his deal runs another 3 seasons! Im pretty sure that Magloire could put up those numbers (for the vet minimum) if given the minutes.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Bosh and Beasley is not a good idea!? WTF

And please don't compare Magloire to Chandler. That is completely absurd. Forget the numbers, Magloire's knees couldn't handle 30mpg.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



sMaK said:


> Bosh and Beasley is not a good idea!? WTF
> 
> And please don't compare Magloire to Chandler. That is completely absurd. Forget the numbers, Magloire's knees couldn't handle 30mpg.


That doesnt change the fact that Chandler is way overrated and paid! The Hornets are looking to win now yet they have no problem shopping their 7'0 C for a 30 year old SF...red flag anyone?


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I agree, he's definitely overpaid and overrated BUT he would fill a massive void for us. We really don't need our center to score. Just grab boards and defend the rim. There aren't many bigs that can do that better than Chandler can. 

Either way, I'm not too sold on a Marion for Chandler swap. But it wouldn't be terrible.


----------



## Takeit2dahouse00

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> That doesnt change the fact that Chandler is way overrated and paid! The Hornets are looking to win now yet they have no problem shopping their 7'0 C for a 30 year old SF...red flag anyone?


They are shopping their 7'0 C because they are having financial problems the owner doesn't want to have to deal with anymore. They are also shopping their 7'0 C because they feel West can play center in their offense and Marion would be a great fit on their style of play. Chandler is definitely overpaid but I do not think he is overrated, he'd be perfect next to Beasley and would immediately solve our interior defense problems. With that being said, I'd rather have Jermaine O'Neal over him because of the whole 2010 thing and the fact that we'd be able to dump Banks. 

And about the Bosh thing, if we can in any way land Bosh, even if it means giving away Beasley, you have to do it. Bosh would be perfect next to Wade, 100 times more than Amare would.


----------



## Vivaldi

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

but we can bosh in 2010...and still keep bease


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Takeit2dahouse00 said:


> *They are shopping their 7'0 C because they are having financial problems the owner doesn't want to have to deal with anymore. They are also shopping their 7'0 C because they feel West can play center in their offense* and Marion would be a great fit on their style of play. Chandler is definitely overpaid but I do not think he is overrated, he'd be perfect next to Beasley and would immediately solve our interior defense problems. With that being said, I'd rather have Jermaine O'Neal over him because of the whole 2010 thing and the fact that we'd be able to dump Banks.
> 
> And about the Bosh thing, if we can in any way land Bosh, even if it means giving away Beasley, you have to do it. Bosh would be perfect next to Wade, 100 times more than Amare would.


I dont buy that.

I think the Hornets want to win now and they realize that their overrated 7-footer is killing their cap! Chandler is nowhere near the defensive anchor (Duncan/K.G./Sheed/Artest) hes made out to be. This move wouldnt make us a contender but it would kill our cap in 2010.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Link


Good news, I'm so ready for a trade to go down..


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

^ same, but id prefer to keep Mike..I dont wanna trade him.

Just do the JO trade IMO.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> Chandler is making $11.5 million for averaging 9pts 8reb 1.5blk in 30+mpg, and his deal runs another 3 seasons! Im pretty sure that Magloire could put up those numbers (for the vet minimum) if given the minutes.


1. He's having a bad season, hobbled by injury. How would you feel about someone using last season to measure Dwyane's worth?

2. Magloire couldn't reach those numbers standing on Yao Ming's head. No way.

3. Who knows, maybe the Heat could get him to opt out and take a new deal to allow Wade to re-sign and a wingman to be added. Riley is very convincing.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> I dont buy that.
> 
> I think the Hornets want to win now and they realize that their overrated 7-footer is killing their cap! Chandler is nowhere near the defensive anchor (Duncan/K.G./Sheed/Artest) hes made out to be. This move wouldnt make us a contender but it would kill our cap in 2010.


Obviously he's not on the Duncan/KG level, do you expect to get one of those? A Sheed-level player would also be difficult to acquire. Ron Artest doesn't even fit in that group.

This team needs a center in the worst way. It needs a center in 2010, too. Why not get that center now? Its a widely accepted fact that one must overpay for serviceable centers in this league. Its just how it is. We should be thrilled that the Hornets may be willing to trade their starting C for Marion.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Jace said:


> Obviously he's not on the Duncan/KG level, do you expect to get one of those? A Sheed-level player would also be difficult to acquire. Ron Artest doesn't even fit in that group.
> 
> This team needs a center in the worst way. It needs a center in 2010, too. Why not get that center now? Its a widely accepted fact that one must overpay for serviceable centers in this league. Its just how it is. We should be thrilled that the Hornets may be willing to trade their starting C for Marion.


Yeah, it makes no sense to me either. Who exactly are we going to get to play center in 2010 that would be better? The guy led the league in total rebound percentage in 2007 and was 5th in 2008. I'm sick of all this 2010 garbage. We would be ridiculously lucky to have a guy like Tyson Chandler on our team this year rather than wait to get him two years from now.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Exactly. He's actually been the main guy I've had my eye on for that summer lately, until I found he has that option for the next season which he'll probably take.

While Beasley-Bosh or Beasley-Stoudemire sounds great in NBA2k9, in real life a team needs balance. While neither project to be true back-to-the-basket post options, Beasley and Chandler would provide balance for each other. I would think if you had two scoring options on the level of Wade and what we hope Beasley to become, combined with solid role players at the 1 and 5 (Chalmers, Chandler), and potentially another off-the-dribble scorer at the 3 (J. Johnson? C. Butler? J. Howard? Salmons?) you'd be a pretty formidable squad.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Chandler would be a good pickup. I really do think he'd help. If they wanna chuck in Peja, id do it. Imagine a team with Cook and Peja as your outside shooters.

Contract running past 2010 or not, a team with:

Chalmers
Wade
Peja
Beasley
Chandler

as your starting 5, with Cook and Haslem off the bench would compete bigtime in the East, this year, and beyond.


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Unfortunately, nobody cares about competing, it is all about winning championships. Ask the Suns and Mavs fans how they like competing every year.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Whose to say that team wont challenge from next year. Boston will be close to done in their championship window, and that team would be up there with Cleveland and Orlando as the best in the East.

Assume that Beasley and Chalmers develop as expected. Next year = 

Chalmers - 12ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 2spg, 35mpg
Wade - 27ppg, 5rpg, 7apg, 2spg, 37mpg
Peja - 14ppg, 5rpg, 1apg, 34mpg
Beasley - 18ppg, 8rpg, 1apg, 35mpg
Chandler - 10ppg, 10rpg, 2bpg, 33mpg

Think of the matchups - Chalmers vs Nelson vs Mo Williams
Wade vs Pietrus vs Sczerbiak
Peja vs Hedo vs LeBron
Beasley vs Lewis vs Wallace
Chandler vs Howard vs Ilgauskus

We match up.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Yeah, there's a big difference between us competing with that team in the East, and the Mavs and Suns trying to get out of the West against a perennial contender like the Spurs.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Jace said:


> Yeah, there's a big difference between us competing with that team in the East, and the Mavs and Suns trying to get out of the West against a perennial contender like the Spurs.


Do you guys know what is Toronto's problem? They get eaten inside all day everyday by the opposing team big man BECAUSE BOSH CANNOT PLAY THE 5. They get molested every time.

You think Bease and Bosh at the 4 and 5 would fix that problem?

Say you move Bease to the 3 and keep Bosh at the 5, WE STILL NEED A 5 and we will most likely get raped on the perimeter if we have Bease defending the 3.

Also, you will have 2 "big men" who will take midrange shots every day. No one to bang inside and be a low post threat. Bosh can be a inside threat but his problem is that he does not do it. He always gets pushed out to the perimeter and grabs the ball out there. He then takes a shot, which he can knock down pretty well but in crunch time that is not what you want him to do, or he drives to the basket, which NJ figured out that all they have to do is put a faster guy like RJ on him so he gets the ball stripped every time.

You are telling me you want Bosh AND Bease on the floor at the same time? Bosh showed in the olympics that he can play D but he can't battle in the post with NBA 5s. He can be a very good defender if there is somebody else to take the offensive load (we have Wade so that works) but he can only defend the 4.

Thank you for pointing out that this is not 2k9.

Bease and Bosh or Bease and STAT is the same thing as Bease and Booze.

Just say no.

I don't like Peja's contract and I'm a little concern about our perim D if we have Peja and Cook as our rotation 3 but Chanlder at the 5 is a definate yes. Now and after 2010.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

And to all you delusional MIA fans out there, outside of Kaman and Chandler, how many Cs do you think Miami can get or that we want?

How many C can play the 5, defend the 5 AND be a low post threat? How many can we actually land barring draft picks?

Do you guys really think we can get a Bynum/Oden/Dwight/Yao/Big Z?

NO.

We can get either a Defensive C or an offensive C because a low post threat who can defend the 5 well does not exist in the NBA outside of the 5 listed.

The rest of the list are:

Kaman
Chandler
Dalemebert
Camby
Bogut
Brook Lopez
Okur
Okafor
JO
Perkins
Biedrins
Diop

Note: They either play D and are almost dead weight on Offense, or they play Offensive and are a liability on D, or they are old or injury prone. Take your pick.

or you have the C list in:

Miller
Pryzbilla
Rasho
Blount
Dampier
Magloire
Darko


conclusion: If we can get Kaman or Chandler, we take it.


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Dee-Zy said:


> And to all you delusional MIA fans out there, outside of Kaman and Chandler, how many Cs do you think Miami can get or that we want?
> 
> How many C can play the 5, defend the 5 AND be a low post threat? How many can we actually land barring draft picks?
> 
> Do you guys really think we can get a Bynum/Oden/Dwight/Yao/Big Z?
> 
> NO.
> 
> We can get either a Defensive C or an offensive C because a low post threat who can defend the 5 well does not exist in the NBA outside of the 5 listed.
> 
> The rest of the list are:
> 
> Kaman
> Chandler
> Dalemebert
> Camby
> Bogut
> Brook Lopez
> Okur
> Okafor
> JO
> Perkins
> Biedrins
> Diop
> 
> Note: They either play D and are almost dead weight on Offense, or they play Offensive and are a liability on D, or they are old or injury prone. Take your pick.
> 
> or you have the C list in:
> 
> Miller
> Pryzbilla
> Rasho
> Blount
> Dampier
> Magloire
> Darko
> 
> 
> conclusion: If we can get Kaman or Chandler, we take it.


Kaman > Chandler

Too bad we can't get him. But I agree like you said there's only about 5 centers that can play well on both sides of the court. That's why I really feel that Kaman is perfect for us. He can score with either hand and defend the paint. The Clippers will be kicking themselves for years if they let us get him.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If we can get Kaman/Chandler without giving up anything key, we take it ASAP and run away before they change their mind. If not, we go for Jermaine. There's no way I want Beasley anywhere other than Miami.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

me and rather unique have been hounding about Kaman for a while but supposedly the heat were uninterested in his services for some reason.. Chandler.. im not crazy about.. 

did anyone read the article in the herald today?


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HeatBall said:


> did anyone read the article in the herald today?


Nope...


----------



## sknydave

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

What was the article


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

http://www.miamiherald.com/594/story/894804.html


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



sknydave said:


> What was the article


http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/story/894804.html


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Dee-Zy said:


> Do you guys know what is Toronto's problem? They get eaten inside all day everyday by the opposing team big man BECAUSE BOSH CANNOT PLAY THE 5. They get molested every time.
> 
> You think Bease and Bosh at the 4 and 5 would fix that problem?
> 
> Say you move Bease to the 3 and keep Bosh at the 5, WE STILL NEED A 5 and we will most likely get raped on the perimeter if we have Bease defending the 3.
> 
> Also, you will have 2 "big men" who will take midrange shots every day. No one to bang inside and be a low post threat. Bosh can be a inside threat but his problem is that he does not do it. He always gets pushed out to the perimeter and grabs the ball out there. He then takes a shot, which he can knock down pretty well but in crunch time that is not what you want him to do, or he drives to the basket, which NJ figured out that all they have to do is put a faster guy like RJ on him so he gets the ball stripped every time.
> 
> You are telling me you want Bosh AND Bease on the floor at the same time? Bosh showed in the olympics that he can play D but he can't battle in the post with NBA 5s. He can be a very good defender if there is somebody else to take the offensive load (we have Wade so that works) but he can only defend the 4.
> 
> Thank you for pointing out that this is not 2k9.
> 
> Bease and Bosh or Bease and STAT is the same thing as Bease and Booze.
> 
> Just say no.
> 
> I don't like Peja's contract and I'm a little concern about our perim D if we have Peja and Cook as our rotation 3 but Chanlder at the 5 is a definate yes. Now and after 2010.


Dont tell me that Bosh cant play the f'n 5 when Ive seen him bang inside, board and play very solid D! The only reason people think hes soft is because he only plays hard in bursts because hes given up on his crappy franchise! 

Miami trades - Marion/Banks

Toronto trades - JO/Moon

Sign Bosh in 2010 and contend for years!

C - Bosh
PF - Beasley
SF - ?
SG - Wade
PG - Chalmers
6th - Cook

Chandler is an overrated defender that only shows up when he feels like it. The best part is that we would get to pay him 11, 12 and 13 million dollars over the next 3 seasons to not be a difference maker!

I'll take Riles opinion over the little 2k9 comment! He seems to think that Beasley/Bosh is a great idea.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I think Beasley/Bosh is a perfect marriage. Both of them could score from anywhere and Bosh is tall enough to cover 5s. They wouldn't be the greatest defensive duo but they would be downright scary on offense. You gotta be kidding me to think that Chandler/Beasley is nice than Bosh/Beasley.

Could you imagine Bosh and Beasley on offense together with Wade at the 2? That's insane.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

*OK, then... one Jermaine please*


> Among the most interesting fallout from the recent round of trade rumors is the amount of passion for Michael Beasley in this market. The email box runneth over (seriously, the automated notice came about a mandatory cleanup).
> 
> Fine. It looks like, after all, he's not going anywhere. No, not because the Heat has made Michael untouchable, but apparently because Phoenix is looking elsewhere with its Amare Stoudemire salvage effort.
> 
> That should bring the Heat back, full circle, to the Raptors, and Jermaine O'Neal.
> 
> Having checked with the NBA office, there is, indeed, no rule prohibiting trades during the All-Star break. So maximize a schedule that has only one game in an eight-day span following Thursday's visit to Chicago, and do it then.
> 
> You gain size in the middle. If Jermaine pans out, it could mean an offseason deal of Udonis Haslem and a shift of Beasley to a full-time role at power forward. And Marcus Banks and his 2010-11 salary is divested.
> 
> The counterargument about keeping Shawn Marion continues to loose steam. Heck, there was a tangible gasp when Erik Spoelstra dared replace Daequan Cook late in Sunday's victory over Charlotte with Marion.
> 
> This O'Neal-Stoudemire-Chandler carousel ride has been fun, but Plan B and Plan C simply don't make as much sense.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I thought it was very interesting that Israel Guitteraz (spelling?) was on the 'Keep Beasley' wagon. That guy hates on Mike all the time, but even he see's the logic of keeping him and seeing if we can get Bosh/Amare in 2010 to pair with Wade/Beasley.

Ethan Skolsnic is probably the only guy whose on board with the Amare for Marion/Beasley deal, Ira just wants Jermaine and Chris Perkins sucks so I dont care what he says.

Lets just do Jermaine, and call it a day. If we cant get Amare/Bosh im sure there's plenty of other good FA in 2010/2011 (list please?).


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Waiting for 2010 means we are targeting two guys after we re-sign Wade........AMARE and BOSH! If you can get them now, why wait? Sure, you can keep Beasley and MAYBE get them, but this is a guarantee. Amare is 26, he's hungry for a change NOW, and can 100% for certain play center in the East (He'd be the best C in the conference not named Dwight).

I'm 100% for an Amare trade - assuming we aren't giving up more than predicted in most reports.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



DQ for 3 said:


> Waiting for 2010 means we are targeting two guys after we re-sign Wade........AMARE and BOSH! If you can get them now, why wait? Sure, you can keep Beasley and MAYBE get them, but this is a guarantee. Amare is 26, he's hungry for a change NOW, and can 100% for certain play center in the East (He'd be the best C in the conference not named Dwight).
> 
> I'm 100% for an Amare trade - assuming we aren't giving up more than predicted in most reports.


Amare Stoudemire is a one-dimensional player who doesn't make his teammates better. On top of that, the one and only thing he does well has been compromised by microfracture surgery that will need to be reperformed at some point, and he has already stated that he would rather retire than go through what he went through the first time.

Centers are expected to rebound and play defense so if you consider that then he wouldn't even be a top 5 center in the east.

This season is already over, so what's the harm in waiting 15 more months then signing him if we want him so badly. If we trade Beasley for him then we're still not better than Boston, Cleveland, or Orlando and we would have given up a valuable piece. If we're the 4th best team with him when we're already the 4th best team without him then why are we supposed to do this?


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> Chandler is an overrated defender that only shows up when he feels like it. The best part is that we would get to pay him 11, 12 and 13 million dollars over the next 3 seasons to not be a difference maker!


Chandler is not overrated. He led the league in rebound rate (ahead of guys like K.G. and Dwight Howard). He was the heart and soul of that Baby Bulls team that made it to the playoffs for the first time in 7 seasons. When he is healthy, he might be the best rebounder in the entire league and he plays excellent defense.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I know Amare hasn't been playing up to his usual standards this season but if these rumors were circling even a year ago every single one of us would be in favor of it. It's not like the dude is 34 and past his prime. He's still one of the best power fowards in the game.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



sMaK said:


> I know Amare hasn't been playing up to his usual standards this season but if these rumors were circling even a year ago every single one of us would be in favor of it. It's not like the dude is 34 and past his prime. He's still one of the best power fowards in the game.


I'm not saying that I wouldn't want him. It's between him and Beasley + cap room and I'd rather have Beasley + the cap room.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



DQ for 3 said:


> Waiting for 2010 means we are targeting two guys after we re-sign Wade........AMARE and BOSH! If you can get them now, why wait? Sure, you can keep Beasley and MAYBE get them, but this is a guarantee. Amare is 26, he's hungry for a change NOW, and can 100% for certain play center in the East (He'd be the best C in the conference not named Dwight).
> 
> I'm 100% for an Amare trade - assuming we aren't giving up more than predicted in most reports.


I just dont think its a smart move. 

Consider that Beasley is 20 - and is going to be the PF version of Kevin Durant. Do you trade a healthy 20 year old guy who will be a 20/10 player (ill guarantee it) for a guy whose a perennial all-star but has a bad attitude, is down on form, 26 years old and with a big salary.

I can see a bit of your point, but if you envision Beasley being a 20/10 guy, every night, this trade makes no sense. Why mortgage our future again? Stoudemire will bolt in 2010 anyway - he wants his own franchise, this is DWade's.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I wouldn't want to trade Beasely for him either but I just felt he was getting hated on a little too much here. 

And why do you think he wants his own franchise? He seemed fine as Nash's sidekick all those years. I don't think he'd mind being Wade's. I just don't think he likes playing second fiddle to an overrated Shaq right now.


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I've never bought into that "he wants his own franchise stuff." Amare is the type that will play the same way anywhere as long as he is getting the dollars. I don't think that #1 or #2 stuff matters. The only thing that I criticize Amare over is his nonexistant defense. It's not something that he can improve though. He actually said the other day that he thinks he plays good defense so that should tell you how much he understands about that area of the game :laugh:


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

LOL

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. He's not a good defender and he seems to coast through games at times. But like I said, he's still a very good player and is getting way too much hate right now. When he's on a roll he's pretty close to impossible to contain.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

^ True. Im not saying for a minute that Amare isnt a top level player, especially offensively.

Im just saying I dont wanna get rid of Beasley, a potential 10-15 year player, to rent Stoudemire for 18 months.


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If we wait 15 months and don't get Amare or Bosh, who are we going to put at Center?

If you wait and miss out on the big name in 2010, then you look back and wish you made a deal.

We all talk about how weak we are at center, and how desperately we need to upgrade, so who the hell are we waiting for?

Dwight isn't coming, Yao isn't coming, Oden isn't coming....who we waiting for?


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



DQ for 3 said:


> If we wait 15 months and don't get Amare or Bosh, who are we going to put at Center?
> 
> If you wait and miss out on the big name in 2010, then you look back and wish you made a deal.
> 
> We all talk about how weak we are at center, and how desperately we need to upgrade, so who the hell are we waiting for?
> 
> Dwight isn't coming, Yao isn't coming, Oden isn't coming....who we waiting for?


So we should trade our young talent for a player who won't make us any better than 4th in the East when we're already 4th in the East? I'm not getting it.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Amare's not a center though. He's a PF - and he doesnt defend.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



The '93 Heat said:


> So we should trade our young talent for a player who won't make us any better than 4th in the East when we're already 4th in the East? I'm not getting it.


Marion for Chandler... whatever fillers to make it work.

PS: Bease is not a filler.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

You don't have to have a star at center to win, look at the Celtics. At minimum, we just need someone who can stay on the court all game in different situations, play solid defense, and fight hard on the boards. See the Spurs and Celtics. Heck, Joel Anthony could play next to a 20 and 10 Michael Beasley and not hold us back as long as he hustles.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Joel Anthony? You gotta be kidding me.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If Michael Beasley come year 3 is a 20-10 guy and is playing like we expect, the pressure on the C position isn't too high. I'd rather save money on that spot and just find a banger.


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

ok....

we need a center

im much more of the B Miller/JO/Camby crowd, where we could get a center who expires in 2010 and dump Banks than the trade assets for Amare crowd

compared to nothing though, I would be in favor of Amare. Hell, the guy is a stud. We would have to give talent to get talent

honestly, I cant watch Joel and Magloire be inept for so long.....Haslem and one of those two makes for the least talented front court bigs in the NBA, and our luck is starting to run out win wise. 

we need help under the basket. If we do nothing, it doesnt matter what our 2010 situation will be, as Wade will be frustrated and out of the door. Get JO. Get Miller. Get somebody!


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I don't think the majority of you guys understand how bad Magloire and Anthony really are. It's ridiculous to me that we are over .500 right now with our front court.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

The center position in the NBA doesn't have to be a star. A lot of very good teams don't have big contributors there. The difference between those teams and us is they have top of the line PFs, where as right now we have a solid role player like Haslem having to start and a guy in Michael beasley whose best days are yet to come.


----------



## reHEATed

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



sMaK said:


> I don't think the majority of you guys understand how bad Magloire and Anthony really are. It's ridiculous to me that we are over .500 right now with our front court.


completely agreed

my order of preference

JO
Camby
Miller
getting rid of Banks
those 3 and keeping Banks
Amare (lose beasley)
.
.
.
.
.
.
keep what we have with marion and anthony/magloire

we need to do something. As long as we get a capable big, I really dont care what it is. Hell, bring the Birdman to town for all I care. He is better than what we have.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

We don't need a star IF Beasley realizes his potential. But Magloire and Anthony are terrible players. They wouldn't get playing time on ANY good teams. A guy like Kendrick Perkins is miles ahead of either them.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

How many times has Anthony received a sick pass from Chalmers or Wade only to fumble it away or brick a layup? He's horribly inept on offense. Magloire is more serviceable but he's got cinder blocks on his feet and thinks he's better than he really is.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Even Mark Blount looked halfway decent and serviceable next to Kevin Garnett and Rasho Nesterovic looked decent next to Tim Duncan... I don't know If Beasley will match either of those guys, but I do know both Magloire and Anthony are better than the centers I listed. Spoelstra is a defense guy and Joel plays hard and blocks shots on that end, so I am sure Spoelstra has to be halfway high on him.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

You answered it yourself brother. Beasley is not KG or Duncan. Not even close, at least not yet. Duncan and KG are also 7 feet tall, which helps quite a bit.

And I'd rather have '00 Rasho or Blount than what we have right now. Those guys got big contracts for a reason. No one is going to give Anthony or Magloire anything in that stratosphere.


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> Amare's not a center though. He's a PF - and he doesnt defend.


He's 6-10, 250 lbs. 

Look at our team...
Joel Anthony is 6-9, 245 lbs.
Jamaal Magloire 6-11, 265 lbs.
Alonzo Mourning 6-10, 261 lbs. 

Just look at our division...
Emeka Okafor is 6-10, 255 lbs.
Dwight Howard is 6-11, 265 lbs.
Al Horford 6-10, 245 lbs.
Brendan Haywood 7-0, 263 lbs.

Why the hell couldn't he start at center? We play guys there who aren't as strong, and far less talented, and we're hesitant about putting an all-star caliber post player there? Come on man...

Does he make us better than Detroit/Orlando/Cleveland? Probably not. But he gives us a fighting chance against them. 

I'm not saying Jermaine O'Neal can't do this at a lesser extent, but getting an Amare Stoudemire doesn't come along too often. And if anyone is forgetting that the 2010 class isn't a guarantee, we could miss out and be left searching for a solution in 15 months.


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



sMaK said:


> You answered it yourself brother. Beasley is not KG or Duncan. Not even close, at least not yet. Duncan and KG are also 7 feet tall, which helps quite a bit.
> 
> And I'd rather have '00 Rasho or Blount than what we have right now. Those guys got big contracts for a reason. No one is going to give Anthony or Magloire anything in that stratosphere.


At the pace that Joel has improved, he's not going to be a minimum player for long. Big men always get contracts that are slightly overpaying compared to guards.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

No way he gets Diop money though.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



DQ for 3 said:


> He's 6-10, 250 lbs.
> 
> Look at our team...
> Joel Anthony is 6-9, 245 lbs.
> Jamaal Magloire 6-11, 265 lbs.
> Alonzo Mourning 6-10, 261 lbs.
> 
> Just look at our division...
> Emeka Okafor is 6-10, 255 lbs.
> Dwight Howard is 6-11, 265 lbs.
> Al Horford 6-10, 245 lbs.
> Brendan Haywood 7-0, 263 lbs.
> 
> Why the hell couldn't he start at center? We play guys there who aren't as strong, and far less talented, and we're hesitant about putting an all-star caliber post player there? Come on man...
> 
> Does he make us better than Detroit/Orlando/Cleveland? Probably not. But he gives us a fighting chance against them.
> 
> I'm not saying Jermaine O'Neal can't do this at a lesser extent, but getting an Amare Stoudemire doesn't come along too often. And if anyone is forgetting that the 2010 class isn't a guarantee, we could miss out and be left searching for a solution in 15 months.


We have beaten Orlando and Cleveland already this year with our team. We lost to Detroit by 2 last week. We have a chance already against these teams with our flawed roster - why blow up our future for the present. We all sit here and wonder 'what couldve been' with the 03-04 team - when we're talking of doing the same thing again.

As a rookie, Stoudemire put up 13 and 7 in 30+ minutes. Beasley is at 13 and 5 in 24 minutes. Im not saying Beasley will be the equal to Amare, he may not get to that level - but its not unlikely that Mike becomes a 20/10 force as soon as next year.

Just because Amare is the size of a center, doesnt mean he can guard them. Joel and Magloire can actually defend 5's, Amare cant really defend 4's, let alone 5's.

We'd end up having to play Udonis on the 5's and we'd be right back to point 1 - with no cap space, still 4th in the East, and no chance of improvement.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Joel won't get Diop money, but Joel will fit into our future plans. Lots of teams would kill for a big man who contributes anything on the boards and can block some shots without them having to pay a kidney for their services. There is a dearth or mid-level centers... Either you have a good center or a sucky one.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I don't know about the rest of you but I don't give a **** what we could've had with the 03-04 team. We won a championship with a win now philosophy by blowing that young squad up to get Shaq. Hell, we could've had another one if Wade wouldn't have been banged up. Obviously we wouldn't be getting a Shaq-level player but Riley isn't looking too much into the future here. We've got one of the best players of this generation, so Riles has to look at every possibility of getting this team better as soon as he can.


----------



## Smithian

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Amare and Bosh don't make us instant contenders like Shaq did, or we'd all want to make the trade.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Exactly. Amare may be a vast improvement over the centers we currently have (probably the league's worst, so, not surprising), but that doesn't mean he's the right C to plug into the position for the foreseeable future, especially if Beasley is traded. I don't even think the two of them at the 4 and 5 is a good idea,


----------



## -33-

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> We have beaten Orlando and Cleveland already this year with our team. We lost to Detroit by 2 last week. We have a chance already against these teams with our flawed roster - why blow up our future for the present. We all sit here and wonder 'what couldve been' with the 03-04 team - when we're talking of doing the same thing again.
> 
> As a rookie, Stoudemire put up 13 and 7 in 30+ minutes. Beasley is at 13 and 5 in 24 minutes. Im not saying Beasley will be the equal to Amare, he may not get to that level - but its not unlikely that Mike becomes a 20/10 force as soon as next year.
> 
> Just because Amare is the size of a center, doesnt mean he can guard them. Joel and Magloire can actually defend 5's, Amare cant really defend 4's, let alone 5's.
> 
> We'd end up having to play Udonis on the 5's and we'd be right back to point 1 - with no cap space, still 4th in the East, and no chance of improvement.


I meant to say Boston, not Detroit, but either way - winning one game vs. winning a series is a completely different situation. We are good enough to beat anyone on any given night. But do we stand a chance in a 7 game series against Boston/Orlando/Cleveland/Detroit? Probably not.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Update (supposedly) on the Stoudemire rumours -



> Feb 10, 2009 5:19 AM EST
> 
> Mike McGraw of the Daily Herald is reporting that the Phoenix Suns have little interest in Miami forwards Michael Beasley or Shawn Marion in any deal involving Amare Stoudemire.
> 
> Phoenix, apparently, see the Bulls Tyrus Thomas as a better fit than Beasley.
> 
> The Suns had traded Marion to the Heat for center Shaquille O'Neal last year.


- Daily Herald


And from reading the Chicago board, I think their standing offer was something along the lines of Gooden + Tyrus + Thabo + 1st rnd pick. The article also said the Suns were wanting Joakim Noah included, and that there were hold-ups presumably over that.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> Phoenix, apparently, see the Bulls Tyrus Thomas as a better fit than Beasley.


I have no idea why they'd think that but good.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Oh good, as long as they keep that idea in their head, I'm happy.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I don't want Amare in a heat uniform.. no need.. But what would u prefer, Chandler or O'neil..


Chandler's contract has a 13mil option in 10-11 that he would prolly exercise, do u think riley like shim enough to do it.. i doubt we will do the sacramento deal if we cant dump banks..


so its looking at either o'neil or chandler


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



NewAgeBaller said:


> Update (supposedly) on the Stoudemire rumours -
> 
> 
> 
> - Daily Herald
> 
> 
> And from reading the Chicago board, I think their standing offer was something along the lines of Gooden + Tyrus + Thabo + 1st rnd pick. The article also said the Suns were wanting Joakim Noah included, and that there were hold-ups presumably over that.


Lmao Steve Kerr is going to get himself fired. That is an absolutely TERRIBLE deal for PHX. Paxson must have some blackmail pictures or something.


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HeatBall said:


> I don't want Amare in a heat uniform.. no need.. But what would u prefer, Chandler or O'neil..
> 
> 
> Chandler's contract has a 13mil option in 10-11 that he would prolly exercise, do u think riley like shim enough to do it.. i doubt we will do the sacramento deal if we cant dump banks..
> 
> 
> so its looking at either o'neil or chandler


I think that if you are convinced that Beasley is the real deal then you trade for Chandler and call it a day. However, I am not convinced. Don't get me wrong, I do think Beasley will be a very good player, Jamison-type 20/10 forward. I just don't think a Jamison type player with Wade and role players can get us to the promised land. So I personally rather deal for JO to help us in the short term, and then still have the cap flexibility to add a star or major piece in free agency in 2010.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

13 mil is not too much money considering our only other signed players (considering we trade banks) would be cook, wright, beasley, chalmers... the cap is estimated to be around the high 70million figure. Technically we will be able to keep chandler, maybe wade, and even add a turkoglu, or nash type player (im comparing money wise) with a little less than average role players.. 

I just dont see what big man we are planning on getting in 10-11 FA Class..


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HeatBall said:


> 13 mil is not too much money considering our only other signed players (considering we trade banks) would be cook, wright, beasley, chalmers... the cap is estimated to be around the high 70million figure. Technically we will be able to keep chandler, maybe wade, and even add a turkoglu, or nash type player (im comparing money wise) with a little less than average role players..
> 
> I just dont see what big man we are planning on getting in 10-11 FA Class..


From my point of view, it's not so much about banking on a big man from the class, but about keeping our flexibility. If we take on Chandler than we are stuck with Chandler / Beasley / ? / Wade / Chalmers for the long term with only upgrades being with the MLE. That is a good squad but not a championship type squad IMO. Now if we get JO we can compete for the meantime. Then in 2010 we try to get Bosh. Lets say we strike out on Bosh. If we don't waste our capspace overpaying for an inferior big man then we'll be in the same place as this season in the Marion sweepstakes. By that time we will know what Beasley brings to the table and we can dangle him in trade talk if he hasn't panned out or just absorb a disgruntled star's contract. Who knows maybe Dwight or Yao will be pissed by then and want out. Yes, I realize that is unlikely, but the point is that we need to keep our cap flexiblity and options open just in case. I don't like the fact of locking in our roster and payroll on a team that is not a championship contender.

Look at the Wizards for example. They have a nice core of players in Jamison / Butler / Arenas. They paid them to keep the squad together along with some role players. Now it doesn't look like it will pan out and they are stuck with a huge payroll for a mediocre team. Even if the Wiz got everyone healthy, there is no way they contend for a championship. They are stuck in the same spot for years to come. I don't want the Heat to get in a similar situation.


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> I have no idea why they'd think that but good.


I do. Tyrus is more athletic, a better defender, and better suited for the Suns style. Even though he is not a very good player, he would be perfect for that team.


----------



## Rather Unique

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



anru321 said:


> From my point of view, it's not so much about banking on a big man from the class, but about keeping our flexibility. If we take on Chandler than we are stuck with Chandler / Beasley / ? / Wade / Chalmers for the long term with only upgrades being with the MLE. That is a good squad but not a championship type squad IMO. Now if we get JO we can compete for the meantime. Then in 2010 we try to get Bosh. Lets say we strike out on Bosh. If we don't waste our capspace overpaying for an inferior big man then we'll be in the same place as this season in the Marion sweepstakes. By that time we will know what Beasley brings to the table and we can dangle him in trade talk if he hasn't panned out or just absorb a disgruntled star's contract. Who knows maybe Dwight or Yao will be pissed by then and want out. Yes, I realize that is unlikely, but the point is that we need to keep our cap flexiblity and options open just in case. *I don't like the fact of locking in our roster and payroll on a team that is not a championship contender.*
> 
> Look at the Wizards for example. They have a nice core of players in Jamison / Butler / Arenas. They paid them to keep the squad together along with some role players. Now it doesn't look like it will pan out and they are stuck with a huge payroll for a mediocre team. Even if the Wiz got everyone healthy, there is no way they contend for a championship. They are stuck in the same spot for years to come. I don't want the Heat to get in a similar situation.


Now would you lock it by taking in Kaman? I know you like his fit, so if he was on the table, would you do it?..(I think you know my answer)


----------



## Rather Unique

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



myst said:


> I do. Tyrus is more athletic, a better defender, and better suited for the Suns style. Even though he is not a very good player, he would be perfect for that team.


Everyone talks about the Suns "style" as if D'Antoni was still there. Who's to say that Porter or any other coach they bring in wants the same run and gun style? That team is a mess, and that is precisely their problem, they have no identity. I think it is ludicrous to want Tyrus Thomas over Mike. regardless of the situation.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Rather Unique said:


> Everyone talks about the Suns "style" as if D'Antoni was still there. Who's to say that Porter or any other coach they bring in wants the same run and gun style? That team is a mess, and that is precisely their problem, they have no identity. I think it is ludicrous to want Tyrus Thomas over Mike. regardless of the situation.


Yup, Thats what I was thinking as well.


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Rather Unique said:


> Now would you lock it by taking in Kaman? I know you like his fit, so if he was on the table, would you do it?..(I think you know my answer)


You know from our offline conversations that I am very down with Kaman and would gladly take him. My objections are more about how I value Chandler and Beasley. I would love to get Kaman because of his offensive and defensive abilities. I just despise the fact that Chandler can't do anything offensively except dunk off the lob. I rather the chance to get Bosh than the sure thing to get Chandler.


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Rather Unique said:


> Everyone talks about the Suns "style" as if D'Antoni was still there. Who's to say that Porter or any other coach they bring in wants the same run and gun style? That team is a mess, and that is precisely their problem, they have no identity. I think it is ludicrous to want Tyrus Thomas over Mike. regardless of the situation.


Regardless if D'Antoni is there or not, they still play uptempo. And they always will while Nash is still there.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Suns wanting Tyrus over Beasley is all rumor at this point. If it's true, and they pull the trigger on that deal (over a Miami one especially), I might have to start rooting for another team.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

i think its more of them not wanting marion than not wanting beasley.. marion is going to go to a team that will more than likely try and resign him.. they dont want to trade Amare for nothing.. pplus we dont have a draft pick this year to offer and 10-11 draft pick will be fo less value (probably considering the FA market) unless u have a top 10 pick.. 

Amare won't score as much on another team... not the way the suns spread the floor and give him room to work.. plus his great D (speights dropped 24 and 7 against him) says a lot of how much he is work.. I'm sure amare has not "wanted" to play this year, but his play is border line insulting..


I say we are getting JO.. FINAL ANswer.. hopefully getting rid of Banks. and thats that.. Chandler would be great but I doubt Riley would bend on his 10-11 cap room.. If they raptors throw in a draft pick ( i think we are waiting on that ) this week will get done between monday and wednesday


----------



## myst

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I still can't imagine JO and Haslem playing together, that would be funny.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

im pretty sure they would get along pretty well.. they would prolly get their hairs braided at the same spots.. lol

when they last had a scuffle indiana was a playoff squad.. I don't see either of them waging war on each other..


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> • An official in contact with the Heat said Pat Riley has become increasingly eager to do something big before the Feb. 19 trade deadline, using Marion's expiring contract.
> 
> The official said the Jermaine O'Neal deal with Toronto (for Marion and Marcus Banks) still interests the Heat if it cannot acquire Amare Stoudemire (Miami's first choice) or if nothing more enticing surfaces. A published report in Chicago asserted that the Suns do not want Marion back and prefer the Bulls' Tyrus Thomas to Michael Beasley in a Stoudemire trade. According to a competing executive, Phoenix believes it can get more than what Miami has to offer.
> 
> The Heat -- which wants Stoudemire or Toronto's Chris Bosh in 2010 free agency -- hasn't had trade talks about Bosh. One downside to the O'Neal trade: It would give Miami $70 million in salary commitments for 11 players next season, leaving only about $2.5 million under the luxury-tax threshold to upgrade at small forward this summer.


Link


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

All news is good news for me at this point.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If its true that the Blazers may be offering LaFrentz, Aldridge and Bayless for Amare then that has to be the best offer on the table for the Suns.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> A published report in Chicago asserted that the Suns do not want Marion back and prefer the Bulls' Tyrus Thomas to Michael Beasley in a Stoudemire trade. According to a competing executive, Phoenix believes it can get more than what Miami has to offer.


So the Suns want a great athlete that cant play basketball over a prospect with through the roof potential?

Thats too f'n funny!

Kerr should be out of a job very soon!


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> If its true that the Blazers may be offering LaFrentz, Aldridge and Bayless for Amare then that has to be the best offer on the table for the Suns.


A core of Roy, Amare and Oden would come back to bite the Suns in the a$$ a helluva lot harder then Aldridge and Bayless would ever help them.

I expect them to ship him East.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HEATLUNATIC said:


> A core of Roy, Amare and Oden would come back to bite the Suns in the a$$ a helluva lot harder then Aldridge and Bayless would ever help them.
> 
> I expect them to ship him East.


True, but I just cant see them getting any better deal then that one. The Bulls offer is pretty crappy imo and cant believe they'd see that being a better trade then Miami is reportedly offering. Aldridge is a young and talented big that would play very well off of Shaq, they get an expiring deal in Raef, and a hometown kid in Bayless who could be groomed to be Nash's replacement.


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

pheonix wants hinrich and tyrus...

realgm.com

*If the Bulls are going to make a play for Amare Stoudemire, they'll likely have to include Kirk Hinrich in any package.

Steve Nash appears unhappy in Phoenix, and the Suns might need to replace him should he leave after next season. Because of that, the Suns would value a player like Hinrich.

"It's one of those things that's out of my control," Hinrich said. "I just try to go out here every day and do my job and do it the best I can. You never know what to believe and what not to believe. There's always so much talk, especially this time of year. You just try not to focus on it."

Regardless, Hinrich knows what adding a player like Stoudemire would mean for the Bulls.

"He's a special player," Hinrich said. "He's been an All-Star in this league. He's one of the best power players in this league. Anytime you have an All-Star, a great player like that, it relieves pressure.

"But I tried a long time ago not to get excited about things like that because you never know how much truth there is to it. It's just one of those things where if it happens, it happens. It's part of the job. As of right now, we're just treating it as this is going to be the group that we've got and try to enjoy playing together."*

i love hinrich, but i still think the portland deal is to good to pass up...


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

how about we go after the guy we all wanted in the offseason....

*The Warriors are reportedly willing to include Monta Ellis or Andris Biedrins, but not both, in the right trade.

Golden State has tried to make a play for Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire, but they don't have the large, expiring contracts that the Suns are coveting.

The Warriors are looking for more big men, but really only have swingmen and guards to offer in return.*

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57148/20090210/warriors_willing_to_deal_ellis_biedrins/


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> pheonix wants hinrich and tyrus...
> 
> realgm.com
> 
> *If the Bulls are going to make a play for Amare Stoudemire, they'll likely have to include Kirk Hinrich in any package.
> 
> Steve Nash appears unhappy in Phoenix, and the Suns might need to replace him should he leave after next season. Because of that, the Suns would value a player like Hinrich.
> 
> "It's one of those things that's out of my control," Hinrich said. "I just try to go out here every day and do my job and do it the best I can. You never know what to believe and what not to believe. There's always so much talk, especially this time of year. You just try not to focus on it."
> 
> Regardless, Hinrich knows what adding a player like Stoudemire would mean for the Bulls.
> 
> "He's a special player," Hinrich said. "He's been an All-Star in this league. He's one of the best power players in this league. Anytime you have an All-Star, a great player like that, it relieves pressure.
> 
> "But I tried a long time ago not to get excited about things like that because you never know how much truth there is to it. It's just one of those things where if it happens, it happens. It's part of the job. As of right now, we're just treating it as this is going to be the group that we've got and try to enjoy playing together."*
> 
> i love hinrich, but i still think the portland deal is to good to pass up...


Phoenix should take that Portland deal and run.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

The Portland deal would do both teams awesome-ly in the future. However, I can't see the Suns trading him to one of their fellow West competitors.


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Beast said:


> The Portland deal would do both teams awesome-ly in the future. However, I can't see the Suns trading him to one of their fellow West competitors.


Yea if Oden pans out then the Blazers would look very scary. Oden-Amare-Batum/Outlaw-Roy-Blake/Sergio with Rudy / Webster / Frye /Pryzz

Still alot of young talent out there.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

portland is always filled with lots of young talent.. they just seem to trade it away before they get anywhere...


----------



## Takeit2dahouse00

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



> Phoenix is now focused on Eastern Conference teams in their attempt to find the best package possible for Amar'e Stoudemire.
> 
> The Bulls remain a serious contender due to Drew Gooden's expiring contract and Larry Hughes' expiring deal next season, plus the largest expiring trade exception in the league ($5.2 million).
> 
> But *Miami is the latest team to emerge as a serious landing spot for Stoudemire, a person with direct knowledge of the talks said Wednesday night*.


http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/13535220?source=rss_blogs_NBA

Here we go again..


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Takeit2dahouse00 said:


> http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/13535220?source=rss_blogs_NBA
> 
> Here we go again..





> But according to another rival executive, the Suns have made it clear that Nash, Grant Hill, and Leandro Barbosa are "untouchable."


Unless its a 3 team trade, we're gonna have to take on too many players in return to match up money, if Barbosa is indeed untouchable.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> *Unless its a 3 team trade*, we're gonna have to take on too many players in return to match up money, if Barbosa is indeed untouchable.


And now word from Memphis..



> Several NBA insiders asserted that Phoenix and Miami would like Memphis to facilitate a deal that would send Stoudemire to South Beach. One scenario has the Griz possibly acquiring Heat rookie forward Michael Beasley in the three-way transaction.


Link

Yup, things are getting really interesting.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

^ Like that article says, it won't matter to the Suns trading him out West, because I think they're pretty much in give up mode even if they won't admit it. But they want to get the most talent they can in return and restricting it won't make sense. Grizz turned down a straight up offer though like it also said in that link. I wish they'd ask for Gay/Warrick/Lowry (and/or their 1st) instead of Conley. They might do it, and I don't like him much. Any 3 way though, they better get Rudy Gay and some good stuff back as part of it.

Oh, and turns out that LMA Blazers rumor was false. They're not trading him.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

If we trade Beasley, ima be pissed.

Seriously.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> And now word from Memphis..
> 
> 
> Link
> 
> Yup, things are getting really interesting.


That would be really interesting. I'm a Beasley supporter too, but bringing Amare to South Beach and sending B-Easy to an already dynamic young Memphis team would be a very exciting move.

Not sure on how much I'd be willing to give up for Amare yet at this point. Trust Riley to make the right decision though.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Wade was on some Chicago radio show and said this about the trade rumors:


> On Amare Stoudemire trade rumors floating around the Bulls and the Heat: "You've got to be patient and you've got to build your team slowly. There are only certain teams like the Celtics and Lakers that can make one move and be in the championship right away. Other teams have to wait their turn and build their teams."


Link


----------



## Vivaldi

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I take that to mean: "Don't trade Beasley, Amare won't do **** for us''

****, can't we just get the JO deal and call it a day?


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

things are getting spicey.. I love this time of the year for the NBA... it's really the only time of the year (besides the playoffs) when u have no clue whats going to happen


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Wade was on some Chicago radio show and said this about the trade rumors:
> 
> Link


Should've known this when reading the article but he was talking about the Bulls and Amar'e rumors. He was asked right after about the Amar'e and Heat rumors and he said that he's used to the rumors because everyone wants to play in Miami so they're always in rumors, but that its all part of the business and right now the players in the rumors are still on the Heat and they understand its a business.

He also talked about 2010 and always wanting to play in only 1 uniform throughout his career and how he likes the direction this Heat team is going.

Here's the link to listen to this interview

http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?context=podcast&id=3900008


----------



## Takeit2dahouse00

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Since Barbosa seems to be untouchable; turns out the Suns have asked the Grizzlies to facilitate a deal between the Heat and them so this might get interesting. I think it's entirely possible that we may deal Beasley, Blount, and some others to Memphis with some sort of Warrick/Conley/Gay package going to Phoenix.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

And then where would this land Marion?

Could it be possible that we'd be dealing Marion/Banks/Blount/Beasley and getting back both Amare AND J.O.?

A 3 team deal with Memphis works perfectly without giving up Marion.

Uh-oh.

Only problem I see would be with Memphis. Do they really like Beasley that much, to give up Gay and Conley?


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

i personally don't want amare.. even wade said it.. we arent one trade away from being a championship team.. so why do it?


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*










How would you guys feel if that went down?


----------



## sMaK

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I'd love it. Just can't see Memphis doing something like that.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Yeah, they'd basically be trading Gay, Conley and Warrick for Beasley and fodder.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Amare is in contract for 3 years according to that. Is that true? If so, it still leaves us with less money for 10/11 and we still have no center after JO is done unless we resign him (which leaves us with less money)..

It's possible, but i'm not too crazy about it.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



HeatBall said:


> Amare is in contract for 3 years according to that. Is that true? If so, it still leaves us with less money for 10/11 and we still have no center after JO is done unless we resign him (which leaves us with less money)..
> 
> It's possible, but i'm not too crazy about it.


He has a $17.7 million player option for 10/11.


----------



## Ben

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Yeah, they'd basically be trading Gay, Conley and Warrick for Beasley and fodder.


Does the caliber of players Phoenix receive in the trade give them enough incentive to give Barbosa away to Memphis? Memphis would have to throw in someone to make the salaries match.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Beast said:


> Does the caliber of players Phoenix receive in the trade give them enough incentive to give Barbosa away to Memphis? Memphis would have to throw in someone to make the salaries match.


I think they would. Kerr has said multiple times that everyone but Nash is available. Yet reports keep saying there are a few untouchable besides him.


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

So we would have to resign Amare and Wade 10/11 and try and pick up a center as well?


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



MB30 said:


> If we trade Beasley, ima be pissed.
> 
> Seriously.


If we can get Amare for Beasley while saving Marion for another deal (Chandler?) we've got to do it, IMO.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Im just sick of the sacrificing the future bull****. Wade wants to stay pat, why shouldnt we?

All my favourite players get traded away - Caron, Brian Grant...now Beasley? The hope of getting MB was what got me through last year. When we drafted him, i was stoked. If we trade that away ill be pissed.

I know Amare's a very good player. I know its not a BAD deal, per se...I just was enjoying the hope of our youthful team.

I want to see how this works out..Im sick of the speculation.


----------



## Rather Unique

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

don't get it confused tho MB, if Wade doesn't want Amare, he won't be here. So if you do see Amare in a Heat uni, Wade def approved. I don't think the organization would make a move he didnt want at this point.


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



Flash is the Future said:


> If we can get Amare for Beasley while saving Marion for another deal (Chandler?) we've got to do it, IMO.


That's the best case scenario right there. 

Chandler and Amare compliment each other perfectly.


----------



## SKiP

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Heat
PG - Chalmers
SG - Wade / Cook
SF - Outlaw
PF - Amare
C - Chandler / Przybilla / Magloire

I like that team, but we need a SF like Outlaw. Maybe Portland would trade Outlaw, Diogu and Frye for James Jones and Haslem? They said they wanted to add some more veterans to that team...

Or maybe they would do Outlaw and Przybilla for Jones and Haslem, because Przy has 3 years left.

Portland
PG - Sergio / Blake
SG - Roy / Fernandez
SF - Batum / Jones
PF - Aldridge / Haslem
C - Oden


----------



## Adam

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



SKiP said:


> Heat
> PG - Chalmers
> SG - Wade / Cook
> SF - Outlaw
> PF - Amare
> C - Chandler / Przybilla / Magloire
> 
> I like that team, but we need a SF like Outlaw. Maybe Portland would trade Outlaw, Diogu and Frye for James Jones and Haslem? They said they wanted to add some more veterans to that team...
> 
> Or maybe they would do Outlaw and Przybilla for Jones and Haslem, because Przy has 3 years left.
> 
> Portland
> PG - Sergio / Blake
> SG - Roy / Fernandez
> SF - Batum / Jones
> PF - Aldridge / Haslem
> C - Oden


Why do you make so many trade posts?


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



SKiP said:


> Heat
> PG - Chalmers
> SG - Wade / Cook
> SF - Outlaw
> PF - Amare
> C - Chandler / Przybilla / Magloire
> 
> I like that team, but we need a SF like Outlaw. Maybe Portland would trade Outlaw, Diogu and Frye for James Jones and Haslem? They said they wanted to add some more veterans to that team...
> 
> Or maybe they would do Outlaw and Przybilla for Jones and Haslem, because Przy has 3 years left.
> 
> Portland
> PG - Sergio / Blake
> SG - Roy / Fernandez
> SF - Batum / Jones
> PF - Aldridge / Haslem
> C - Oden


I'd prefer to keep Haslem.


----------



## anru321

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



SKiP said:


> Heat
> PG - Chalmers
> SG - Wade / Cook
> SF - Outlaw
> PF - Amare
> C - Chandler / Przybilla / Magloire
> 
> I like that team, but we need a SF like Outlaw. Maybe Portland would trade Outlaw, Diogu and Frye for James Jones and Haslem? They said they wanted to add some more veterans to that team...
> 
> Or maybe they would do Outlaw and Przybilla for Jones and Haslem, because Przy has 3 years left.
> 
> Portland
> PG - Sergio / Blake
> SG - Roy / Fernandez
> SF - Batum / Jones
> PF - Aldridge / Haslem
> C - Oden


I do like Outlaw but we wouldn't need him if James Jones could show us ANYTHING right now. He's been useless ever since he's returned.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

More from Yahoo sports on the potential 3-way trade between the Suns, Grizzlies and Heat

*Stoudemire talks include three-team trade*


> PHOENIX – As the Miami Heat continue their pursuit of All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire, Heat president Pat Riley has enlisted the Memphis Grizzlies to be a third-team facilitator with the Phoenix Suns, league sources said Thursday night.
> 
> The proposed multiplayer trade is fluid, but the framework would include the Suns receiving a package that includes Miami forward Shawn Marion and Grizzlies forward Rudy Gay. Miami would send rookie Michael Beasley to the Grizzlies. More players would be needed to balance out salary-cap rules.
> 
> “Miami knows that they can’t get this done directly with Phoenix,” one league executive said. “The big thing is that they know the Suns like Gay.”
> 
> Suns owner Robert Sarver directly called Memphis’ Michael Heisley to discuss trade possibilities between the two teams. The Memphis Commercial Appeal reported that the Grizzlies rejected a Suns’ proposal of Gay, forward Hakim Warrick and point guard Mike Conley for Stoudemire. It also reported the possibility of a three-way discussion.
> 
> Before the 2008 NBA draft, the Grizzlies tried hard to trade up to get Miami’s No. 2 pick to draft Beasley. The teams never came to terms, and Memphis ultimately worked the draft-day O.J. Mayo-Kevin Love trade. Gay hasn’t meshed well with Mayo, who took over as the Grizzlies’ top scorer.
> 
> For the Suns, Marion’s possible return would be an ironic turn of events. The Suns traded him to Miami one year ago for Shaquille O’Neal, and now, he’s attractive because of his expiring contract. The Heat have tried to shop Marion to bring back a strong low-post player, and have tried to get teams to take guard Marcus Banks with him, sources said.
> 
> The Heat believe they could sign Amare Stoudemire to a long-term extension before he has the ability to become a free agent in the summer of 2010. Phoenix seems determined to move Stoudemire before Thursday’s trade deadline. As the Suns try to change a failing chemistry, they’ve found a league that isn’t interested in taking Shaquille O’Neal and his contract.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

Also, I wonder how much the soon to be resignation of Paxson affects the Bulls and Amar'e trade rumors.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

And now word from Toronto...

*O'Neal still on trade block with deadline closing*


> Bryan Colangelo arrived in his old stomping grounds a marked man, someone who'll be very popular with his fellow NBA general managers during this weekend's all-star festivities in Phoenix.
> 
> The Raptors' president has made no secret of the fact he's dissatisfied with some aspects of his team's play and, with the NBA trade deadline less than a week away, the normal chatter he has with rival general managers will take on a far more serious tone.
> 
> *Colangelo will most likely seek out whoever is in Phoenix representing the Miami Heat to discuss the still-alive talks involving Jermaine O'Neal and Shawn Marion.*
> 
> With the deadline coming right up against them, the sides will have to determine whether the financial and on-court implications can be hurdled.
> 
> Despite O'Neal's strong play – defensively, in particular – the Raptors are still seeking the financial relief (Marion's roughly $17 million salary comes off the books after the season) the deal would bring, and the undersized Heat can use a player of O'Neal's calibre.
> 
> The two teams have traded medical records on the key players involved and there have been unconfirmed reports O'Neal has been examined in person by members of Miami's medical staff.


Just to add to the bolded part. Here's a blurb from Ira's blog


> Among those from the Heat braintrust in Phoenix, where there is a competition-committee meeting in conjunction with the All-Star Game, is Heat President Pat Riley. Also there is Raptors General Manager Bryan Colangelo, who has Jermaine O'Neal up for bid but insists he is not shopping Chris Bosh.


This next week is gonna be rumor after rumor after rumor :laugh:


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



> The Toronto Raptors have agreed to send Jermaine O'Neal and Jamario Moon to the Miami Heat in exchange for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks, league sources told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.
> 
> The deal is pending league approval, according to league sources.


Link

:clap:


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: ESPN: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Great deal both for the short term and long term.

We still have Beasley and now get a ****-load of cap space in 2010.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

The deal took so long that now it has gone through I'm shocked. I had myself convinced that Mickey would rather keep the $23 million because, lets be honest, the man sells cruises during an economic crisis.

W2M pleeeeeeeeeease change your name now.


----------



## sknydave

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Zomg!


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



The '93 Heat said:


> The deal took so long that now it has gone through I'm shocked. I had myself convinced that Mickey would rather keep the $23 million because, lets be honest, the man sells cruises during an economic crisis.
> 
> W2M pleeeeeeeeeease change your name now.


Just remembered that I have to now :azdaja:

Is there a member list on this site? 

I wonder if Moon ends up starting for us as well?


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

woot woot!!! ...and we got MOOONNN .....suck on that Colangelo...u da man pat

chalmers/quinn
wade/cook
moon/jones/beasley?
haslem/beasley
JO/magloire

does this now mean we will experiment beasley at the 3?


----------



## sknydave

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

I would guess : Mario,Wade, Moon, Haslem, JO starting lineup


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> does this now mean we will experiment beasley at the 3?


I dont think so but this certainly opens up a boatload of playing time for Mike though.


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

close this thread bc he's our!!!!!

jo and moon for marion and banks ....ITS OFFICIAL!!


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

bc a lineup of 

chalmers
wade
beasley
haslem
JO

is talented...i know the whole defensive problem with beasley is tough but i think he can manage


----------



## Rather Unique

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

....it finally went down. We got a Big in Miami guys!!!! Let's hope the best for his health!


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

bout damn time.. i said it would happen by monday.. lets see how long it takes the league to approve it..


----------



## HeatBall

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

bout time it happened.. we all new it was coming.. but now to a more pressing need.. What do I do with jamario moon on my fantasy squad.. I already got cook and chalmers.. too many heat players... sheesh...


----------



## Smithian

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Awesome! Got rid of a bad contract, gave up no young pieces, and now have a legit post man! Great stuff.

I hope Moon can find a home in our offense.


----------



## IbizaXL

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

so how promising is Mr. Moon? you guys seem to be excited about the guy. never heard of him. As for Oneal....he instantly becomes our best big man in the squad. insane. lol

im very happy with the deal. Riley truly is gangsta.


----------



## Dornado

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> bc a lineup of
> 
> chalmers
> wade
> beasley
> haslem
> JO
> 
> is talented...i know the whole defensive problem with beasley is tough but i think he can manage


I think that lineup can hide some of Beasley's deficiencies on the defensive end... I'd say now is the time to start giving B-Easy some serious minutes.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



IbizaXL said:


> so how promising is Mr. Moon? you guys seem to be excited about the guy. never heard of him. As for Oneal....he instantly becomes our best big man in the squad. insane. lol
> 
> im very happy with the deal. Riley truly is gangsta.


Moon is garbage. Maybe worse than Diawara.


----------



## IbizaXL

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



The '93 Heat said:


> Moon is garbage. Maybe worse than Diawara.


worse that Diarrhea? impossible.

at least we dont have to deal with Marcus Banks and his gazillion dolla contract.

so at this point, with all the SFs we have....dorell wright might actually have a good chance to crack the lineup.


----------



## Jace

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*

I knew this would happen. Now everyone at work that argued we were keeping Marion can bow down.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Moon isnt that bad. But he's 28 so its not like he has a chance to get any better. 

He averages 7 and 5 in 27 mpg. Pretty much what Dorell could give us. Lately it looks like he's been pretty good. Over his last 4 he's at 9ppg on 54%, 9rpg.


----------



## Jace

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

I cant understand why Riley demanded Moon. I guess just as SF insurance in case JJ, Diarrhea, and Wright never pull their heads out of their rears. Oh well, I guess its best to have as many coveted players as possible (even though it was last year people wanted Moon).

The beauty of this is we now only have one really bad contract in Blount, and he expired next year.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Ira just said on WQAM that the Heat will get a draft pick as well, while the Heat will send cash considerations, about $3million, to the Raptors.


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

ya it will be a second rnd pick for no more than 3 million in cash considerations


----------



## ShOwTiMe 15

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

jamario moon does not suck...he reminds me of a shawn marion, just with alot more of an offensive game..he jumps out of the arena, he gets those loose rebounds, he is a poor man marion...huge pick up!! and if he doesnt pan out , he's also a expiring contract...


----------



## Adam

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> ya it will be a second rnd pick for no more than 3 million in cash considerations


Wait...that can't be right, can it? That's way too much money for a second rounder. It has to be a future first.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: O'Neal for Marion & Banks, now Marion & Banks for O'Neal?*



ShOwTiMe 15 said:


> close this thread bc he's our!!!!!


Nah, now its time to address backup PG with the glut we still have at SF eace:


----------



## Jace

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

If we got a first that would be huge after the Bricky Buckets deal.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



The '93 Heat said:


> Wait...that can't be right, can it? That's way too much money for a second rounder. It has to be a future first.


Ira said it might be conditional but that we'll know for sure around 3pm.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Ira said it might be conditional but that we'll know for sure around 3pm.


Yeah, I'm sure conditional first. But there's no way a second rounder would cost $3 million. Unless the $3 million wasn't right.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Ira just posted this in his article..


> The source involved with the negotiations said the Heat will also receive a draft pick in the transaction, which will be announced later in the day. To complete the transaction, the Heat will send cash to Toronto, with $3 million the maximum allowed by the league in such transactions.


Link


----------



## ChrisRichards

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

it's a first rounder


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



ChrisRichards said:


> it's a first rounder


That confirmed or just a guess?


----------



## Adam

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



ChrisRichards said:


> it's a first rounder


Well the cash might also be something that Toronto wanted just for the players not something solely to purchase the draft pick. In that case I can see a second round pick being just a throw in.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Per Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports 


> The Miami Heat have completed a trade with the Toronto Raptors, acquiring Jermaine O’Neal, Jamario Moon and *a future first-round pick* in exchange for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks, multiple league executives said Friday. The Raptors also will receive cash considerations in the deal.


Link

Damn, I think all of us would've been happy with just Jermaine O'Neal. Now we added both Moon and a 1st rd pick.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Per Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports
> 
> Link
> 
> Damn, I think all of us would've been happy with just Jermaine O'Neal. Now we added both Moon and a 1st rd pick.


I'm telling you, it was the dunk over Sefalosha. We need to all send him a fruit basket.


----------



## billfindlay10

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

I don't think you will be happy with Moon....he stalls the ball on offense and takes some bad shots. His rebounding is not that great even though his numbers suggest other. On Free throws Toronto uses a guard to come from behind the 3 point line to box the shooter, the two bigs box out down low and Moon gravs the easy board...I have seen him get 2-3 a ame llike that. He will jump at shooters and gets beat off he dribble, he will recover with some blocks, but h is not that good.


----------



## Ben

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Sweet, welcome to Miami Jermaine and Jamario. Glad we got a 1st rounder out of it too, this is great news, since the past week or so has been about trading Bease.


----------



## myst

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

The Heat can still make more trades, so don't be surprised if another move is made.


----------



## myst

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Here is a comment I saw on ESPN



> celtpride34pp20ra5kg (2/13/2009 at 2:48 PM)
> 
> The heat actually scares the heck out of me as a celtic fan.
> 
> Why? Mostly because of Dwyane Wade.... i dont fear Lebron or Kobe cuz i know my boys can stop them, i seen em do it, but i dont know about Wade... and i seen what he did to Detroit and Dallas in 2006.... with Beasley now starting and J Oneal if he's healthy thats some serious weapons to run with, AND they play defense.... they got size, athleticism, rebounding, shooters, defenders, all around Wade.... that is scary.
> 
> Now Beasley starts and gets way more PT, if he develops and J Oneal is healthy now that he's in a better fit for his talents....... that could be a very scary team around Wade if it all works out (Bease devloping and Oneal being healthy).....
> 
> Dwyane Wade scares me. I can admit it. As a celtic fan he scares the hell out of me.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Ira breaks down the conditions of the 1st rd pick.


> According to a party with the details of the deal, the Heat will receive a first-round pick from Toronto in 2010, unless that pick is among the first 14 (lottery) selections.
> 
> Should Toronto be in the draft lottery in 2010, in essence not make next season's playoffs, the Heat then would receive a 2010 second-round pick from the Raptors.
> 
> The first-round pick then would be sent to the Heat in any year, from 2011 through 2014 that it is not among the first 14 selections (the next year Toronto makes the playoffs).
> 
> Should the Heat not get the first-round pick by 2014, it then would receive a 2015 first-round pick from the Raptors.
> 
> In addition, the Heat gained a $4 million trade exception in the transaction, which it can use to balance salaries in a deal for the next 12 months. To complete the transaction, the Heat will send cash to Toronto, with $3 million the maximum allowed by the league in such transactions.


Link


----------



## myst

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

I was just gonna post that. The trade exception is nice. Now if we get a high salary player we can use that instead of throwing in a player.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Ira breaks down the conditions of the 1st rd pick.
> 
> Link


Lets raise a glass to hoping the Raptors miss the playoffs for the next 6 years and have the worst team in the league come 2015.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

Here's Ira's blog..

*The man's a freakin' genius*


> Sure Jermaine O'Neal will help. And the Heat certainly has a way of reviving such fallen former stars.
> 
> But wait, there's more (clearly Pat Riley has turned into Billy Mays).
> 
> In the deal that sent Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to the Raptors, the Heat also gets a future first-round pick from Toronto, possibly as early as 2010, but basically the next time, after this season, that the Raptors avoid the lottery.
> 
> In addition, the Heat exits the deal with a $4 million trade exception. That means, for the next 12 months, the Heat can make a trade that brings in $4 million more in salary than it trades out. Or it simply, over the next year, could deal a future second-round pick for any player (or signed draft pick) in the league making that amount or less.
> 
> Oh, and it gets to rent Jamario Moon for the balance of the season, with his expiring contract.
> 
> So what's next? A few thoughts:
> 
> If O'Neal proves he is up to the challenge the balance of this season, then Udonis Haslem could wind up the odd man out next season, with the logical shift of Michael Beasley to a full-time role at power forward alongside such a sizeable presence. (O'Neal is under contract through 2009-10).
> 
> No, Beasley is not a small forward, especially not a starting small forward. Of the current group, it could be Yakhouba Diawara, at least until the Heat gets a read on Moon or James Jones' shot comes around. This also could slightly open the door for Dorell Wright, perhaps for the final time.
> 
> Figure on a pickup at point guard or at least a signing, with Marcus Banks gone. Stephon Marbury? Probably not the way to go while also trying to work in O'Neal on the fly.
> 
> As for center, something will have to be done to thin out the core of Magloire, Anthony and Blount, especially if Haslem also serves as the backup center.


----------



## -33-

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*

I don't understand why we'd have a need to sign a PG.

Banks didn't play - Chalmers is the starter, and Quinn is the backup. Wade plays the point from time to time (and could play more if needed), and even Cook is capable of playing spot minutes there. Barring an injury, we've really got no "holes" that need to be addressed by a mid-season signing.


----------



## HeatBall

Moon is one of the top fantasy players.. (not that it means anything) but does lots of the intangibles, boards, steals, blocks.. i see him filling out marion role easy..


----------



## Ben

HeatBall said:


> Moon is one of the top fantasy players.. (not that it means anything) but does lots of the intangibles, boards, steals, blocks.. i see him filling out marion role easy..


He's definitely just Matrix Lite, a solid pickup.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

Looking a Beast's avy, it reminds me that JON has always worn the head band throughout his career to hide that big *** fore head of his. It'll be kind of weird to see him without it since Heat players arent allowed to wear them.


----------



## Ben

Why aren't they allowed them?


----------



## Wade2Bosh

Beast said:


> Why aren't they allowed them?


That's one of the rules Riley put in when he 1st got here and its carried on ever since.


----------



## Vivaldi

I love this trade!


----------



## sknydave

He has a giant, giant head. Really giant.


----------



## Steez

Atleast Matrix left on a good note on a game winning facial.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

Here's Wade's comments on the trade


> Heat guard Dwyane Wade welcomed the deal, but also felt for Marion.
> 
> "My initial reaction is of course I developed an unbelievable relationship with Shawn," he said during today's All-Star Game media session in Phoenix. "You're sad to lose a friend on and off the court. At the same time, Shawn and I just had this conversation that it's part of the business and we knew it was a possibility."
> 
> Wade, who will start for the Eastern Conference Sunday before the Heat resumes practice Tuesday at AmericanAirlines Arena, said he appreciates the possibilities.
> 
> "It gives us some power down low, which since, Shaq left, we've been missing," with Marion and Banks dealt just over a year ago from the Phoenix Suns to the Heat for center Shaquille O'Neal. "We really need that to compete in the Eastern Conference. Our main thing is we need to get it together fast. Making a trade at this time sometimes makes it tough on teams to get everybody on the same page.
> 
> "Hopefully, we can get it together fast. He's an All-Star. And Jamario Moon is really under the radar as far as what he can do."


Link


----------



## IbizaXL

Wade2Matrix said:


> That's one of the rules Riley put in when he 1st got here and its carried on ever since.


thats very true. look at james posey.


----------



## Flash is the Future

*Re: Heat acquire O'Neal, Moon for Marion, Banks*



Wade2Matrix said:


> Just remembered that I have to now :azdaja:
> 
> Is there a member list on this site?
> 
> I wonder if Moon ends up starting for us as well?


There's no member list (Petey got rid of it back in 2006, I think), but you can use the Search By User Name function. By waiting to see if any results come up in the drop down menu when you type in a potential User Name.


----------



## Rather Unique

What am i supposed to ***** at when I'm at the games?!? No more 3 ft. jumpers and floaters. :thinking2:

But seriously, I still do think we gonna miss Marion a little more than we think on some defensive rotations. However i do see, how having JO will help on the same rotations by not havin to provide so much help inside, so I guess its an even trade off as far as that goes. Offensively this should open the floor up for our outside shooters, let's just hope we get consistent and hit em.


----------



## Takeit2dahouse00

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20090213_151109_53972

Jamario Moon interview on trade from Toronto radio station.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

Takeit2dahouse00 said:


> http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20090213_151109_53972
> 
> Jamario Moon interview on trade from Toronto radio station.


Thanks. Sounds happy to be closer to his wife and daughter.


----------



## Smithian

I saw Jamario Moon when he was with the Arkansas RimRockers... So, well, yeah, I just felt the need to point that out. I just remember him throwing down an awesome dunk and it being the play of the game and stuff.

Even if the guy doesn't do much for us, he'll play hard on defense, try on the boards, and you'll see him catch some massive alley oops from Wade.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I didn't realize you guys were a top 10 defense *without a center*, nice.


----------



## Smithian

Without a center! We have Joel!

In all honesty, JO will be a big addition to our interior defense. The very fact he will box out guys like McDyess who destroy us on the boards will be awesome.

Considering our post minutes will be mostly taken by a three man rotation of JO, Haslem, and Beasley, I hope Joel can beat out Magloire and be a quality defensive sub in limited minutes for us. I think Spoelstra has a soft spot for him, so good for us(and mostly me).


----------



## Ruff Draft

A Jermaine-taught Joel could be pretty nice for the future of Miami. Goodbye Magloire.


----------



## reHEATed

Ruff Draft said:


> A Jermaine-taught Joel could be pretty nice for the future of Miami. Goodbye Magloire.


magloire actually does stuff though

im all for cutting Diawara, adding a pg, and keeping the rest as is. Joel has reasons to stay as does Magloire. We cant cut Magloire, as we would be epicly screwed when/if Jermaine misses games.


----------



## Adam

People are also forgetting that Shaun Livingston is still a phantom Heat player. We cut him for salary cap reasons and roster space because he wasn't going to play this season, but he still is in Miami going to games and working out there. I expect that we're bringing him back in July.

It looks like:

Beasley
Cook
Chalmers
Livingston

Those are the only players that we will have under contract for 2010 along with Wade's rights and they're all earning the bare minimum. That's beautiful.


----------



## Smithian

Man, I just thought of something; for the first time since pre-playoff Shaq of 06-07 who will grab a contested offensive board, go back up, and try to tear the rim down.

God, I am fantasizing about the first time he is doubled and hits an open Cook or James Jones...

This move gives us a fighting chance against someone like Boston or Cleveland in the playoffs.


----------



## myst

reHEATed said:


> magloire actually does stuff though
> 
> im all for cutting Diawara, adding a pg, and keeping the rest as is. Joel has reasons to stay as does Magloire. We cant cut Magloire, as we would be epicly screwed when/if Jermaine misses games.


We don't need to cut anybody, we only have 14 players because we traded Livingston.


----------



## Wade County

So stoked this went down.

Jermaine and Udonis on the same team, who'da thunk it? Ah well, Jermaine will be a defensive demon for us in the paint. This is a big addition guys.

Good luck to The Matrix as well, he worked hard while here, but he wasnt the same player. Hopefully Toronto is a better fit.

JERRRRRRRMAINE O'NEAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!


----------



## NewAgeBaller

:worthy:

Welcome Jermaine O'Neal, Jamario Moon and Toronto's 1st Round Pick.

Good luck to Matrix, atleast he left on a high note and I hope he gives Toronto reason enough to appreciate him, despite his occasionally horrendous play here.


----------



## Dee-Zy

I am so happy to be a Heat fan and 2x happy that I am not a raps fan anymore.

What a rape. Both BC and Riles should feel dirty. For different reasons though


----------



## Ras

I'll warn you now, Jamario is really no good. He doesn't even really seem to give much effort on most nights. He can't defend. He can't shoot. He can't create. He isn't smart. I'm honestly glad he's no longer with the Raptors.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks he's Matrix light (didn't someone even say Marion with a better offensive game? No way). Maybe because they have a similar build, but the production, even in comparison to this year's Marion, isn't close. Jamario stinks.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

Ras said:


> I'll warn you now, Jamario is really no good. He doesn't even really seem to give much effort on most nights. He can't defend. He can't shoot. He can't create. He isn't smart. I'm honestly glad he's no longer with the Raptors.
> 
> I'm not sure why everyone thinks he's Matrix light (didn't someone even say Marion with a better offensive game? No way). Maybe because they have a similar build, but the production, even in comparison to this year's Marion, isn't close. Jamario stinks.


Wasn't it mostly Raptors fans claiming he could be like Marion? Unless thats wat u meant.. I don't know, I agree with most of the Raptors fans' current opinion on him - he can mainly jump, but he can't shoot or create (maybe here's the Marion comparison..) and he can be a defensive player but his basketball IQ is pretty low.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

Jermaine was spending the all star break in the Bahamas. Now the dude could just take a short boat ride over 

Here's his thought's on the trade


> O'Neal, 30, who was vacationing in the Bahamas, seemed pleased. ''Pat Riley and the Heat are getting a player that's hungry,'' he said. ``For me, it was all about getting healthy and getting back to all I was able to do. I feel like I have four or five good years left in me.''


Riles on JON


> ''Somewhere, you've got to get honest with yourself,'' Riley said Friday evening, ``and say that if you're going to compete with the big boys, you need somebody in the middle that not only can score but can bang, block shots -- a very physical player. I feel we have a very good front line now.''
> 
> Riley said the Raptors allowed the Heat to examine O'Neal in Miami last month, and the team believes the knee problems that sidelined him earlier this season should not be a persistent problem. But he has ''got to get back to a real rehabilitation program,'' said Riley, who also was encouraged by O'Neal's recent play. O'Neal, 6-11, has averaged 13.5 points, 7.0 rebounds and two blocks for the Raptors and has played well the past two weeks.
> 
> ''We've been tracking Jermaine for about six weeks,'' Riley said. ``He's only 30 years old. . . . There's never any guarantee, but . . . we've got a player we feel can help us.''


So the report was true about O'Neal being checked out by Heat doctors

Riles on Moon


> Riley said Moon ''could be somewhat of a facsimile of Shawn Marion'' and is ''rated right below Shawn'' among starting small forwards.
> 
> Moon, 28, who went undrafted in 2001, played for 15 teams, including the Harlem Globetrotters, before making the NBA last season. He started 39 of 54 games this season and averaged 7.3 points and 4.6 rebounds, while shooting 47.3 percent from the field and 34.5 percent on threes (38 for 110).
> 
> ''He is a starting-caliber small forward,'' Riley said. ``He's not one of those go-to players, but he has a game that with the right pieces is very effective.
> 
> ``He's a big-time athlete. He plays way above the rim. He's a shot-blocker, a good defensive rebounder. He's improved his outside shot.''
> 
> Coach Erik Spoelstra's options to start at small forward include Moon and James Jones (both 6-8) and Yakhouba Diawara, 6-7. Also, 6-9 Dorell Wright could return soon after knee surgery.
> 
> Daequan Cook, 6-5, has been getting time at small forward in a three-guard lineup, but Spoelstra prefers to keep Cook coming off the bench.


Riles on Beasley playing the 3


> Spoelstra has said he wants to leave Michael Beasley primarily at power forward. Riley said Beasley will work this summer on ''developing the skill set'' to play some small forward but ''it would be a very difficult transition'' this season.


Riles on 2010


> Moon, earning $711,517, will be a free agent this summer. O'Neal's contact runs through next season and will pay him $22.9 million in 2009-10.
> 
> *Riley said the trade also ''cleans the table for 2010,'' meaning Miami will have enough cap space to sign two maximum-salary free agents that summer, including Dwyane Wade. *Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire and Toronto's Chris Bosh will be among others available.
> 
> The Heat had made no recent attempt to re-sign Marion, earning $17.4 million in the final year of his contract. The Heat was eager to dump Banks' contract, which will pay him $4.4 million next season and $4.7 million in 2010-11.


Link


----------



## NewAgeBaller

Riley's overrating Moon, probably intentionally. He's right though about Moon not being a go-to-guy but having 'a game that with the right pieces is very effective'. If he can realise who we actually need him to be, something Marion kind of had trouble grasping, then he has a good chance at grabbing that starting SF spot.

Riley's right about JO, and good to hear he seems pleased.


----------



## Adam

Wade2Matrix said:


>


I don't wanna say I told ya so, but I just so happen to have this bookmarked...

http://www.basketballforum.com/miami-heat/390077-targetting-two-free-agents-2010-a.html


----------



## Wade2Bosh

A little more on all the Amare and Bosh rumors


> He insisted his focus had been O'Neal, despite reports also linking the Heat to Stoudemire.
> 
> "It just wasn't going to work out," he said, with such a move to have come at the cost of Beasley.
> 
> Instead Riley said the decision came down to confidence that O'Neal's troublesome knees could carry him through the Heat's battle for playoff position.
> 
> That didn't mean Riley first didn't inquire about the Raptors' Bosh.
> 
> "I ain't going there," he laughed of his talks with Raptors General Manager Bryan Colangelo. "He didn't ask me about Dwyane."


Riley doesnt sound like he's done trading yet


> Riley said the Heat would move to add another point guard, and did not rule out a follow-up trade before Thursday's 3 p.m. deadline.


Link


----------



## NewAgeBaller

I hope the talk of adding another PG is cause Quinn's been sub-decent at best, and not anything to do with 'Rio. Mario's been great, and should stay the future PG of this team at this point.

I suppose it could also be to replace Banks as the 3rd PG off the bench, but thats not really necessary with Dwyane's ballhandling, and Shaun Livingston floating around somewhere.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

NewAgeBaller said:


> I hope the talk of adding another PG is cause Quinn's been sub-decent at best, and not anything to do with 'Rio. Mario's been great, and should stay the future PG of this team at this point.
> 
> I suppose it could also be to replace Banks as the 3rd PG off the bench, but thats not really necessary with Dwyane's ballhandling, and Shaun Livingston floating around somewhere.


Its 98% because of Quinn and 2% because of the trading the 3rd PG on the roster and not having another PG in case of an injury to Mario or Quinn.


----------



## Adam

^But who would we get? I can't think of anybody who is decent let alone available.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

The '93 Heat said:


> ^But who would we get? I can't think of anybody who is decent let alone available.


Ira said Earl Watson in a radio interview earlier. But that was just a name he threw out there.


----------



## Adam

Luther Head could be pretty good. Not sure that we have the pieces to get him though and he's up for a new contract this summer.


----------



## myst

Wade2Matrix said:


> So the report was true about O'Neal being checked out by Heat doctors


So, do I get any props?


----------



## Wade2Bosh

myst said:


> So, do I get any props?


Yes, for hearing it on the Clippers tv broadcast and bringing it to us, you definitely get props 

But the media down here that covers the freaking team and had no idea of it ever happening deserves a :boxing:


----------



## Adam

myst said:


> So, do I get any props?


I give you intangible props. You have to focus within the white space of this screen and picture them.


----------



## myst

Wade2Matrix said:


> Yes, for hearing it on the Clippers tv broadcast and bringing it to us, you definitely get props
> 
> But the media down here that covers the freaking team and had no idea of it ever happening deserves a :boxing:


Damn, didn't think you would remember that.


----------



## Wade County

Anyone taking bets on the numbers JO and Moon will wear?

My guess:

JO - #7

He was #7 in Indiana, I think he'll take it back here.

Moon - #9

He sure as **** aint getting #33...so I say he goes #9 for no particular reason.

You guys know that since JO has been back from injury, he's putting up 16, 8 and 3 blocks!? If he can consistently give us that, itd be huge.

Cant wait to see Mike get more time now, we need him out there. JO will also "hopefully" stop our slow starts, as he gives us a legit scoring option that Joel and Magloire didnt.

Moon is no world beater, and hes not young, but all ill ask of him is to defend and hit the jumper. If he can do that, im cool with him.


----------



## anru321

Wade2Matrix said:


> Ira said Earl Watson in a radio interview earlier. But that was just a name he threw out there.


Could be possible, he's been on the block forever it seems. Maybe we can deal the trade exception and one of our SFs ( Yakhouba?) for Watson. His contract is also 2010 friendly. Or if Ridnour or Sessions if they are available.


----------



## Adam

anru321 said:


> Could be possible, he's been on the block forever it seems. Maybe we can deal the trade exception and one of our SFs ( Yakhouba?) for Watson. His contract is also 2010 friendly. Or if Ridnour or Sessions if they are available.


Luke Ridnour has a broken thumb and he's as bad a defender as Quinn.


----------



## Jace

MB30 said:


> Anyone taking bets on the numbers JO and Moon will wear?
> 
> My guess:
> 
> JO - #7
> 
> He was #7 in Indiana, I think he'll take it back here.
> 
> Moon - #9
> 
> He sure as **** aint getting #33...so I say he goes #9 for no particular reason.
> 
> You guys know that since JO has been back from injury, he's putting up 16, 8 and 3 blocks!? If he can consistently give us that, itd be huge.
> 
> Cant wait to see Mike get more time now, we need him out there. JO will also "hopefully" stop our slow starts, as he gives us a legit scoring option that Joel and Magloire didnt.
> 
> Moon is no world beater, and hes not young, but all ill ask of him is to defend and hit the jumper. If he can do that, im cool with him.


Diarrhea wears 9.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

Jace said:


> Diarrhea wears 9.


Really, does that matter.. eace:


----------



## Wade County

My bad, I guess its either 5 or 8 then.

**** Khouba


----------



## Wade2Bosh

From today's questions for Ira


> Q: What are the odds of a follow-on trade? Backup PG seems to be the obvious focus now. -- Tony.
> 
> A: There absolutely will be a move for a point guard. I still think the Heat needs someone along the lines of an Earl Watson, someone who can run a team and hit shots. Whether there is anything left to make a deal with is another question. But I can't envision trying to work in Stephon Marbury at this point. And Jamaal Tinsley runs into 2010-11, so that's out.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Ira's latest blog*


> Apparently, the Nets made a late-minute bid for Shawn Marion before the Heat pulled the trigger on the Jermaine O'Neal deal. According to the Newark Star-Ledger, New Jersey offered Vince Carter for Marion, with the intention of re-signing Shawn as part of a high-octane offense alongside Devin Harris, sort of a "Suns II" approach. With Carter's deal running through 2011-12, the trade held little interest for the Heat.
> #
> 
> The final offer from the Kings for Marion, according to the Sacramento Bee, was Brad Miller and Kenny Thomas, who each have this season and next under contract. With Sacramento not interested in taking on Marcus Banks' 2010-11 salary, it was not nearly as appetizing an alternative for the Heat.
> #
> 
> *In fact, with Banks' money going to the Raptors, the Heat is now in position to not only add a top-tier free agent alongside Dwyane Wade in 2010, but also should have enough money left over to retain Udonis Haslem once he becomes a free agent that summer.*
> #
> 
> With Pat Riley saying he needs another point guard and still could make another deal, keep an eye on Oklahoma City's Earl Watson, who is on the market and has this season and next on a deal that pays $6.6 million next season. The Heat doesn't have much left to offer, other than a package of draft picks and perhaps Dorell Wright or James Jones.
> #
> 
> Then again, it sounds as if the Heat will try to get out of salary, instead of add it, next season. "We are under the tax next year and will try to relieve that burden even more so," Pat Riley said of his obligation to owner Micky Arison. "Micky made the decision to go for it and be competitive, be more than just a playoff team."
> #
> 
> An interesting one courtesy of Elias Sports Bureau: Marion became the first player to make a game-winning basket in the final 10 seconds of a game in his final appearance with a team since Michael Jordan's Game 6 jumper for Chicago against Utah in the 1998 NBA Finals.
> #
> 
> Also, Elias noted that prior to the Jermaine O'Neal trade, the Heat's 5.5 points per game from its starting centers were second lowest in the NBA and the Heat's 5.0 rebounds were third lowest.


Adam wont like the bolded part


----------



## Adam

:laugh:

He's right though. Gilbert Arenas in the first year of his monster is making $14.6 million, so we know that we can lower the cap number of the first year of those max contracts to around there, but I don't think that we'd be doing it for the purpose of re-signing, "The Greatest Sports Figure in the History of South Florida, Udonis 'Oh-Em-Gee' Haslem." 

Three guys at $15 million = $45 million. Beasley, Cook, and Chalmers a combined $7.1 million, so a total of $52.1 million with the cap right now sitting at $58 million. That should raise to at least $60 million being extremely modest (it will be a lot higher). That's enough left over to sign a stable of vets.


----------



## Dee-Zy

I heard sessions is on the block, he would be perfect to run the 2nd unit.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

Dee-Zy said:


> I heard sessions is on the block, he would be perfect to run the 2nd unit.


Why would they put him on the block?

Heard Reggie Miller say during the Eastern conference all star practice that he had talked with Jermaine O'Neal last night and he said that Jermaine was very excited about the trade and was looking forward to running some pick and rolls with Wade and thinks his D could really help the Heat.


----------



## Adam

His boxscore against the Lakers was ridiculous. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AmlMBs.31VJcCP6Xyl3KJX4fPKB4?gid=2009020428


----------



## Dee-Zy

Wade2Matrix said:


> Why would they put him on the block?
> 
> Heard Reggie Miller say during the Eastern conference all star practice that he had talked with Jermaine O'Neal last night and he said that Jermaine was very excited about the trade and was looking forward to running some pick and rolls with Wade and thinks his D could really help the Heat.



dunno, read it in the general nba forum


----------



## Flash is the Future

The '93 Heat said:


> :laugh:
> 
> He's right though. Gilbert Arenas in the first year of his monster is making $14.6 million, so we know that we can lower the cap number of the first year of those max contracts to around there, but I don't think that we'd be doing it for the purpose of re-signing, "The Greatest Sports Figure in the History of South Florida, Udonis 'Oh-Em-Gee' Haslem."
> 
> Three guys at $15 million = $45 million. Beasley, Cook, and Chalmers a combined $7.1 million, so a total of $52.1 million with the cap right now sitting at $58 million. That should raise to at least $60 million being extremely modest (it will be a lot higher). That's enough left over to sign a stable of vets.


We have to hope that the economy picks up. Otherwise, the salary cap will be going down. I do like the idea of keeping Haslem though. You might not like him as a starter but really, what better guy could we have coming off of the bench at PF behind Beasley than the one teammate Wade has had since his rookie season?

PG: Mario Chalmers
SG: Dwyane Wade/Daequan Cook
SF: Maximum Contract (Lebron or Joe Johnson :gopray
PF: Michael Beasley/Udonis Haslem
C: Maximum Contract (Tyson Chandler?)

And a bunch of cheap vets to fill out our 2011 championship team.


----------



## myst

Sorry, but I'm not giving a max contract to Johnson or Chandler. The only people deserving of a max contract are superstars. Now if they want a 4 year $40 million dollar contract then fine. But no way am I giving either of those players $80-$100 million dollars.


----------



## Adam

I love the core of this team. I love when players have played together for years and they have that psychic link with each other. Just look at Haslem (wow I'm about to praise him :laugh and the relationship he and Wade have on those fake screen, rolls to the basket. The amount of layups that they get off that play is incredible.


----------



## Flash is the Future

myst said:


> Sorry, but I'm not giving a max contract to Johnson or Chandler. The only people deserving of a max contract are superstars. Now if they want a 4 year $40 million dollar contract then fine. But no way am I giving either of those players $80-$100 million dollars.


Oops, sorry about the confusion. Johnson would be signed first (same age as Wade, and I'd actually be willing to give him a max contract). But obviously not a maximum contract for Chandler. What I meant was the maximum we could sign him for with whatever money is left over.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

Wade3 said:


> Why would they put him on the block?
> 
> Heard Reggie Miller say during the Eastern conference all star practice that he had talked with Jermaine O'Neal last night and he said that Jermaine was very excited about the trade and was looking forward to running some pick and rolls with Wade and thinks his D could really help the Heat.


We know that aint happening unless hes changed his name to Udonis Haslem.

We still havn't even tried to pick n' roll Wade & Beasley... :sigh:


----------



## Wade County

^ Which is sad, because itd be so ultimate. You either have Wade storming into the lane ready to dunk on ya - or Beasley spotting up for that wet J.

Itll happen, eventually.

Dont tell me W2M has gona with Wade3....dont do this to me...


----------



## Wade2Bosh

According to the Herald, we also turned down a deal for Tyson Chandler..


> The Heat rejected New Jersey's offer of Vince Carter (who is due $33 million guaranteed through 2010-11) and an expiring contract for Marion, The Newark Star-Ledger reported. Miami also rejected offers from New Orleans (including Tyson Chandler) and Sacramento ( Brad Miller/ Kenny Thomas).


Link


----------



## sknydave

2K9 already has an updated roster with Moon and JO on the Heat, but they have Beasley starting at the 3.


----------



## Ben

Probably just guess-work by 2K, I don't think there's much of a chance of that.


----------



## sknydave

I know, I'm just sharing


----------



## Ben

Could we get Lowry? He'd be a nice young back-up, something sending Dorell the other way?


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## Flash is the Future

We'd probably have to include the Toronto pick. I'd prefer to get Earl Watson. Blount+Dorell+Toronto pick for Watson+Smith?


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## myst

Not trading a first round pick to rent a backup PG.


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## Flash is the Future

myst said:


> Not trading a first round pick to rent a backup PG.


I think we might to shed salary. We're in the tax next year because of the JO trade. We're going to do everything possible to avoid that and that probably means trading Blount+sweetener. I don't know what other sweetener we could use aside from that pick. It might not be popular with the fans, but that's what I think will probably wind up going down before the deadline.


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## Adam

Is there anybody out there making around $4 million so we can just toss their team that exception we got from Toronto?


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## Wade2Bosh

The '93 Heat said:


> Is there anybody out there making around $4 million so we can just toss their team that exception we got from Toronto?


Damon Jones :uhoh:


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## Flash is the Future

The '93 Heat said:


> Is there anybody out there making around $4 million so we can just toss their team that exception we got from Toronto?


We won't do that. It'd put us in the tax (and cost us 8 million dollars, plus whatever funds we would have gained from the league for being under the luxury tax). Whichever trade we make would have to involve our spare contracts, i.e. Dorell Wright (2.6 million), Mark Blount (8.5 million), or James Jones (4 million).


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## Adam

Flash is the Future said:


> We won't do that. It'd put us in the tax (and cost us 8 million dollars, plus whatever funds we would have gained from the league for being under the luxury tax). Whichever trade we make would have to involve our spare contracts, i.e. Dorell Wright (2.6 million), Mark Blount (8.5 million), or James Jones (4 million).


Speaking of the luxury tax (since this has become the official lounge of the Heat forum ), it's going to be really hard to make any moves this summer to sign even our own free agents after our existing players' salaries go up and with us being so close to the tax already. That's a real cause for concern.


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## Flash is the Future

The '93 Heat said:


> Speaking of the luxury tax (since this has become the official lounge of the Heat forum ), it's going to be really hard to make any moves this summer to sign even our own free agents after our existing players' salaries go up and with us being so close to the tax already. That's a real cause for concern.


With us being required to sign 2 minimum salaried players to meet roster requirements, we're probably already in the luxury tax. That's why I think we use the Toronto pick to try to free up some flexibility in a trade involving Blount and/or Dorell.


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## ShOwTiMe 15

is Jo and moon having a press conference? if so then when?


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## Flash is the Future

Either on Monday or Tuesday. I'm guessing it might be Tuesday because it seems like Monday would be an NBA holiday but I'm not sure.


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## ShOwTiMe 15

any wallpapers or avatars of JO in a heat uni yet?


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## myst

I'd be PISSED if I was a Raptors fan.



> When I first heard O’Neal got traded for Marion, I was happy. Then I heard Marcus Banks was coming our way instead of Joel Anthony and I was like, not great, but still good. Then I heard we also threw in a protected first-round pick in 2010 that will outright belong to Miami in 2015 along with a second-round pick if they don’t get it next year. That’s not so good. The Raptors have no business giving up a chance to get younger and have a shot at drafting their future star. If we make the playoffs next we’ll be going without a first round pick for 3 out of 4 years. By trading draft picks you’re putting immense pressure on yourself to make great trades and free agent signings to fill out your roster. If Marion walks at the end of the season and we don’t sign a big name free agent, this trade will backfire because all it’ll end up meaning is we traded O’Neal’s contract (which has great value next year) and a draft pick for the problem that is Marcus Banks, or in other words 2 first round picks, TJ Ford, Rasho for Marcus Banks.





> From the Heat’s perspective, this is a great deal. If O’Neal stays healthy he’ll give them the inside presence they desperately need. They’ll also get to trade O’Neal to a team that’s looking to shed salary next year (ahem, Memphis, Sacramento). Finances-wise, they get a 4M trade-exception which gives them even more flexibility to acquire assets to help them this year. Plus, there’s the possibility of not one, but two draft picks. If I had to pick a winner here, it’s the Heat.


http://raptorsrepublic.com/blog/2009/02/13/thoughts-on-the-jermaine-oneal-trade/


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## Ben

Wow. ^ What were they thinking?


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## Wade2Bosh

Yeah, when you add up what they gave up to get Jermaine in the 1st place, and what they got for Jermaine now, it has to be really hard for Raps fans to take.

Meanwhile, we basically traded Shaq for Jermaine O'Neal, Jamario Moon, conditional 1st rd pick, and a $4 million trade exception.


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## HeatBall

does the trade exception have to be used this season and ONLY this season? If not.. would we be able to use it next year.. say on a draft pick?


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## Flash is the Future

HeatBall said:


> does the trade exception have to be used this season and ONLY this season? If not.. would we be able to use it next year.. say on a draft pick?


The trade exception expires on 2/13/2010. It can be traded for any player making 4 million dollars or less.


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## Wade2Bosh

Ira on what backup PG's could be available for the Heat



> Trade market: Again, there is not much depth at the position in the league. The team in the best position to deal prior to Thursday's trading deadline, especially since it doesn't have much to lose at this stage, would be Oklahoma City, which has Earl Watson and Chucky Atkins behind Russell Westbrook. There also is Portland, which is carrying the depth of Steve Blake, Jerryd Bayless and possibly available Sergio Rodriguez. It is unlikely the Heat would look at something as big as Andre Miller or Baron Davis.
> 
> The buyout market: In order for a player to be available for another team's playoff roster, he must be waived by March 1. Among those who could shake free at month's end might be Stephon Marbury, Jamaal Tinsley and, yes, old friend Damon Jones.
> 
> The D-League: Put it this way, the best available Development League point guard, at least based on this past week's All-Star Game, might be Blake Ahearn. Been there; did that. There's also NBA veteran Keith McLeod down there.
> 
> From the sideline: Yes, Jason Williams has been hanging around AmericanAirlines Arena in recent weeks, but he technically remains property of the Clippers. Then there's Shaun Livingston, but mobility issues remain. Steve Francis also is free. But while the Heat still is paying off Smush Parker, don't expect it to open another parking spot.


Link


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## Smithian

Jason Williams has been hanging around? He'd be a nice pickup if it was cheap.

Chucky Atkins would be an alright pickup. He can hit the three and will make his man work on the defensive end, even if he isn't the best man defender.


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## Jace

Yeah, whoever we get is there mostly for insurance. They wont be playing much come playoff time, at least.


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## HeatBall

I like insurance... but you never know what happens when teams trade uneven numbered players and certain players must be dropped and so forth.


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## Jace

Wait...what?


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## Smithian

I think Jason Williams would be great. He has a good attitude(except him and Rothstein maybe), can find Wade in good spots, performed well in the NBA Finals, and can shoot. His downfall in Miami was his knees, but coming off the bench, he could stay healthy. I really do trust him more in the playoffs running the point than I would Chris Quinn, especially in a close situation.


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## -33-

I'd take JWill back but I think his knees are shot...Livingston will be back IMO, we cut him to avoid a guaranteed contract.


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## Dee-Zy

Didn't Jwill played like **** for us and started to revert back to the old jacking up ill advised shots his last days here?


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## Smithian

Who didn't play like ---- last year?


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## ShOwTiMe 15

jdub is shot all around...not just his knees...keep him away,id rather have livingston


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## HeatBall

Keep Jwill away from here.. i prefer atkins who is a vet and can play some lock down D. we need a point that can D-up man to man.. if we are lookin for offense, quin seems to be pretty decent at that as the season has progressed.


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## sknydave

Chris Quinn makes baby jesus cry


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## Wade2Bosh

MB30 said:


> Anyone taking bets on the numbers JO and Moon will wear?
> 
> My guess:
> 
> JO - #7
> 
> He was #7 in Indiana, I think he'll take it back here.
> 
> Moon - #9
> 
> He sure as **** aint getting #33...so I say he goes #9 for no particular reason.


Half right 

JO will wear 7 and Moon 8.

Link


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## Wade County

Dammit so close!

Freakin Diawara screwed me.

ANy pics from the press conference?

Also - JO's head is gonna look so freakin big in Miami. That no headbands policy is really gonna make him look weird.


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## Jace

So...Livingston is gonna come back to find his number is jacked?


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## sknydave

MB30 said:


> Dammit so close!
> 
> Freakin Diawara screwed me.
> 
> ANy pics from the press conference?
> 
> Also - JO's head is gonna look so freakin big in Miami. That no headbands policy is really gonna make him look weird.


lol it looks huge in 2K9 now. It's really cool how they have little subtle details like no headbands in Miami.


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## Wade County

JO just became our 2nd leading scorer also, his PPG is higher than Beasley's.

Livingston will be back. He's not healthy enough to play big minutes, but he's healthy enough for spot duty, which is all thats required.


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## Jace

He's got Beas by .2


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