# do you see Dirk in this guys game?



## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u15IORiDlz8

similar skill sets?


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Hmm, not really... Andrea reminds me more of a Peja with a better D.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

This guy is gonna be the Dirk of the East.


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

M F F L said:


> Hmm, not really... Andrea reminds me more of a Peja with a better D.


Too bad one guy is 6'9-6'10 and the other is 7'1


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

I'd say a little bit. But it gets annoying how every Euro is the next Dirk.

I see some similarities but it's hard remember what Dirk was like when he first came into the league. They are both comparable shooters but Dirk's bread and butter is making use of mismatches by driving on slower bigger guys or shooting on smaller guys. He's a much better dribble --> then shot kind of player.

Andrea Bargnani is nice, but at the moment he seems like more of a spot-up shooter. One asset I really like of Bargnani's game though, is his shot blocking. If he can translate that to the NBA, he could very well be a superstar.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

BaLL_HoG said:


> Too bad one guy is 6'9-6'10 and the other is 7'1


 Wasn't comparing heights just styles


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Tersk said:


> I'd say a little bit. But it gets annoying how every Euro is the next Dirk.
> 
> I see some similarities but it's hard remember what Dirk was like when he first came into the league. They are both comparable shooters but Dirk's bread and butter is making use of mismatches by driving on slower bigger guys or shooting on smaller guys. He's a much better dribble --> then shot kind of player.
> 
> Andrea Bargnani is nice, but at the moment he seems like more of a spot-up shooter. One asset I really like of Bargnani's game though, is his shot blocking. If he can translate that to the NBA, he could very well be a superstar.


Dirk absolutly sucked his 1st 2 seasons...absolutly was the most horrible player Id ever seen...


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

He is looking Damn good from that highlight tape


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

I rewatched the video and noticed a couple of things.

He will definately have a hard time when he is getting defended by NBA Players because they'll play closer defense on him. He didn't seem to have the best dribbling but it got him through in the Summer League. 

Like Dirk, I didn't really notice his post defense but the shotblocking makes up for it at that age. He has a quick release on his shot and something I noticed is that he shot reminds me of Dirk aswell. The elbow a bit to the side and the feet spread out.

Both are decent dunkers, but Il Mago seems to try and throw it down with more intensity.

But this is all a very small sample size, come back midway through the season.


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

Tersk said:


> I'd say a little bit. But it gets annoying how every Euro is the next Dirk.
> 
> I see some similarities but it's hard remember what Dirk was like when he first came into the league. They are both comparable shooters but Dirk's bread and butter is making use of mismatches by driving on slower bigger guys or shooting on smaller guys. He's a much better dribble --> then shot kind of player.
> 
> Andrea Bargnani is nice, but at the moment he seems like more of a spot-up shooter. One asset I really like of Bargnani's game though, is his shot blocking. If he can translate that to the NBA, he could very well be a superstar.


How is he just a spot up shooter, when in the highlight reel he was taking many guys off the dribble and showing off his ballhandling skills?


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Looking more into the video I found a few things interesting

He shoots like Dirk, the whole elbow and knees thing

He doesnt seem to have much control when he is handling the ball.

He doesnt seem to have the same mid-range game as Dirk does.

He seems almost identical to Dirk when Dirk was a rookie.

I dont think he'll be a new Dirk but he'll be a good player none the less


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

M F F L said:


> Looking more into the video I found a few things interesting
> 
> He shoots like Dirk, the whole elbow and knees thing
> 
> ...


"he doesnt seem to have much control when he is dribbling" WTF?

Go watch again and look for the play he makes at the 1:10 mark


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Your asking for OUR opinions, I am giving you MY opinion

He has some flashes of having control but then looks kinda sloppy


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

Dude Ball hog you asked for opinions and you got it. Don't get mad if we don't think he's like Dirk.

I've said this before and say it again. He's a Peja but can block. Seems to be a spot-up shooter since most of his points seem to be wide open. Any 3pt shooter can make the shots if he was wide open. His trainer tried hard to mold him into Dirk but he lacks Dirk's mid-game.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

I see a weaker, skinnier Dirk (and I'm talking about when Dirk first came into the league, you have to be damn skinny to be skinnier than that). That said, Andrea seems to be a better shot blocker than Dirk was at that point, but pit him against experienced NBA players and I don't see him averaging over .25 blocks in his rookie season. Doesn't seem too great at creating his own shot. I predict that Andrea will struggle for the first couple of years and be the biggest disappointment of the draft, but he'll be an All-Star in the future.


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## da1nonly (May 8, 2006)

His shot reminds me of dirk/peja.


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## hamahakkimies (Jul 13, 2006)

At this point, Bargnani appears to be almost purely a spot-up shooter. Hard to say how he'll perform against NBA level competition.

In comparison to Dirk, Bargnani has longer arms and bigger hands as you don't see Dirk palming the ball and dunking one handed like that. No doubt Bargnani is/will be a better shot-blocker. On the other hand, he seems to have clearly slower feet than. Dirk might have a little softer touch closer to the basket (I didn't see Bargnani making any layups/short range jumpers). Neither of them is a true NBA leaper.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

I agree with the Peja comparisons.


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

Various points about Bargnani:

- He is bigger than Dirk RIGHT NOW (250 lbs)...

- He has a better 1st step and generally is more fluid when runs the court. Overall speed is better.

- He has a little bit better athleticism... so better shot blocker and dunker.

- His shot release is faster than Dirk though not so efficient.

- He passes the ball better than Dirk.

- His ball-handling skills are comparable (if not better) to the rookie Dirk.

- He has mid-range game but it didn't show much.

- I never saw a cross-over like that by Dirk!


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

He looks a helluva lot slower and looks more like he's gonna lose the ball every time he dribbles. 

As seen in these to videos
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UBOiz0t-tpo&search=dirk nowitzki ball
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-k-AXCgzBA&search=dirk nowitzki ball

He does look like he has the ball handling of a guard.

And in this video of Bargnani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHHJb4Tf6gM&NR

He looks like he is about to lose control of the ball.

To me Andrea is a Peja with better shot blocking skills, I dont even think he should even be mentioned in the same breath as Dirk until you see him even PLAY in the real league, not the SL.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

Unless Andrea hits the weights this offseason he's in for a rude awakening come tipoff. He's so scrawny that despite having the height/weight to be a center he's going to be playing SF next season...


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Big match up problems when playing Andrea, though the thing is that he is too slow to play SF and to scrawny to play PF/C. Plus the defense in Italy/summer league isnt even half as good as the defense in the NBA.


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

M F F L said:


> Big match up problems when playing Andrea, though the thing is that he is too slow to play SF and to scrawny to play PF/C. Plus the defense in Italy/summer league isnt even half as good as the defense in the NBA.


"too scrawny to play PF"

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

I know its hard to admit someone has a better skill then your beloved German, but Bargnani definitely has better foot speed and find me a clip that shows Dirk crossing over anyone.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

BaLL_HoG said:


> "too scrawny to play PF"
> 
> ARE YOU SERIOUS?
> 
> I know its hard to admit someone has a better skill then your beloved German, but Bargnani definitely has better foot speed and find me a clip that shows Dirk crossing over anyone.


 Bud your taking this a little overboard, you asked for our opinions and we gave them to you.

I dont need a video of Dirk crossing some one up to prove anything, Dirk handles the ball better, is a helluva lot faster than him, and has a better midrange game. We're not "dissing" Andrea one bit, all we are saying is that you dont need to "cross someone up" to show that you have better ball handling skills than the next guy.

Yes he's to scrawny to play PF and by scrawny I mean not strong enough, not size wise.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Also to show you Dirks ball handling skill just watch the first play in this movie
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nhlAQ2T4H74&search=dirk nowitzki 

1 minute into this movie Dirk brings the ball up the court, showing his ball handle skills
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SyzN53QrFdU&search=dirk nowitzki  

In this clip Dirk scores off the dribble showing his handles
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pVy2xcZoGCc&search=dirk nowitzki 

2nd clip Dirk takes on 2 defenders off the dribble pump fakes and scores
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E_A7l3SetOE&search=dirk nowitzki 

Off the dribble Dirk posterizes AK-47
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iTyFrSAYGDI&search=dirk nowitzki 

Just liked this dunk lol Dirk over Barkley and after the game Barkley told Dirk he would give him any amount of money to play for Auburn
http://youtube.com/watch?v=upnEFHQlDqo&search=dirk nowitzki 

Dirk owns Walker
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8eQnwqcb2yI&search=dirk nowitzki 

Off the dribble the most famous Maverick play ever Dirk off the dribble attacks the Spurs and gets the And1 and ultimately the game
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1OmE3B-s8ow&search=dirk nowitzki 



*You want me to continue or should I save you the embaressment?*


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

M F F L said:


> Bud your taking this a little overboard, you asked for our opinions and we gave them to you.
> 
> I dont need a video of Dirk crossing some one up to prove anything, Dirk handles the ball better, is a helluva lot faster than him, and has a better midrange game. We're not "dissing" Andrea one bit, all we are saying is that you dont need to "cross someone up" to show that you have better ball handling skills than the next guy.
> 
> Yes he's to scrawny to play PF and by scrawny I mean not strong enough, not size wise.


Dirk does not have " better handles" then Bargnani, Dirk has no left hand to speak of


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Are you joking with me? Dirk goes to the left all the time, infact he takes alot of left handed layups during games. He can use both his hands to attack.

I dont know where your pulling out these sayings that "Dirk has no left hand to speak of" "Dirk does not have better handles than Bargnani" when I have clearly shown you that he is better at handling the ball and has the left hand, watch the 53 point game I highlighted he tipped the ball in and took a few layups with his left.


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## Waqas (May 13, 2006)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> Dirk absolutly sucked his 1st 2 seasons...absolutly was the most horrible player Id ever seen...


Dude, he was SECOND IN MOST IMPROVED PLAYER VOTING IN HIS SECOND SEASON! He averaged 18 points that season...


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

You asked for our opinions. That's what we're giving you. No need to get argumentative. And I really don't understand how you think that Bargnani's big enough to match up against say Duncan.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

He's big enough no doubt, but not *STRONG* enough


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## Waqas (May 13, 2006)

StackAttack said:


> You asked for our opinions. That's what we're giving you. No need to get argumentative. And I really don't understand how you think that Bargnani's big enough to match up against say Duncan.


Yeah, but you have no evidence to show Dirk sucked in his 2nd season...


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

Waqas said:


> Yeah, but you have no evidence to show Dirk sucked in his 2nd season...


..._what?_


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

I think he misquoted?


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

e-vo-dence?!!

you want e-vo-dence?!!

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowitzki/index.html

and this is just a stat sheet..it looks a lot better then what we actually had to watch...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I really like this guy. I might be getting a new fav player. If he comes in as a rookie with that much skill, then the sky is the limits for him


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> e-vo-dence?!!
> 
> you want e-vo-dence?!!
> 
> ...


 For a sophmore 18 8 and 3 is pretty good, his first season was horrible though, but then again, he was getting used to the new type of play here.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

M F F L said:


> For a sophmore 18 8 and 3 is pretty good, his first season was horrible though, but then again, he was getting used to the new type of play here.


thats funny..I see 17.5 6.5 and 2.5...you cant round up when it comes to stats...especially if your gonna skip a whole number...


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Thought I typed a 7 instead of an 8

I was rounding up a half number

still

17 6 and 2 are good numbers for a sophmore.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

M F F L said:


> Thought I typed a 7 instead of an 8
> 
> I was rounding up a half number
> 
> ...


you didnt actually watch the games back then did you?


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

I did. He had a few mistakes but what else do you expect from him at age 19?


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

M F F L said:


> I did. He had a few mistakes but what else do you expect from him at age 19?


at the time it was one of the worst moves in Mavs history, passing on Paul Peirce to get Dirk...


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

At the time, but remember, it takes more time for Forwards/Centers to develop than guards.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

M F F L said:


> At the time, but remember, it takes more time for Forwards/Centers to develop than guards.


Amare
Shaq
Sobonis
Duncan
Dwight Howard
Bosh
thats just a few off the top of my head...


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Dirk was 18 when he entered the league, the only 2 players that were that age were D12 and Amare, not sure about the others though. And the thing is that those 2 rely on athleticism thats why they are so good, though give them credit since they have been in this league they have learned ways to get better without athleticism


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

M F F L said:


> I did. He had a few mistakes but what else do you expect from him at age 19?


So you were 7 then?


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

M F F L said:


> Dirk was 18 when he entered the league, the only 2 players that were that age were D12 and Amare, not sure about the others though. And the thing is that those 2 rely on athleticism thats why they are so good, though give them credit since they have been in this league they have learned ways to get better without athleticism


I thought we were talking about instant impact...I didnt know we were going to switch to age difference...


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> e-vo-dence?!!
> 
> you want e-vo-dence?!!
> 
> ...


Those are actually really, really respectable stats...especially for a sophmore...don't get me started about rookie though...


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

M F F L said:


> of Dirk crossing some one up to prove anything, Dirk handles the ball better, is *a helluva lot faster than him*, and has a better midrange game. We're not "dissing" Andrea one bit, all we are saying is that you dont need to "cross someone up" to show that you have better ball handling skills than the next guy.


It's obvious you don't know Bargnani, apart that short clip... the thing is: Dirk is a big man with SG skills while Andrea is a SG with big man size... do you know the difference?

The Andrea's 1st step is unmatched in NBA for any 7-footers... and Dirk is mechanical at running the floor while Andrea is more fluid and coordinated. 

I know Dirk is way better than Andrea now (7 years between the two) but to say Nowitzki is "a helluva lot faster than Bargnani" is simply UNFAIR...

About their midrange game, you can't sentence that after a short highlight... wait to see some NBA games by Bargnani!


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Tersk said:


> So you were 7 then?


 In 98 I was 6, I've been watching since I was 3


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Toxicity said:


> It's obvious you don't know Bargnani, apart that short clip... the thing is: Dirk is a big man with SG skills while Andrea is a SG with big man size... do you know the difference?
> 
> The Andrea's 1st step is unmatched in NBA for any 7-footers... and Dirk is mechanical at running the floor while Andrea is more fluid and coordinated.
> 
> ...


 I have never seen Bargnani play but from the clips I saw he looked slow and Dirk looked a helluva lot faster.


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

Toxicity said:


> It's obvious you don't know Bargnani, apart that short clip... the thing is: Dirk is a big man with SG skills while Andrea is a SG with big man size... do you know the difference?
> 
> The Andrea's 1st step is unmatched in NBA for any 7-footers... and Dirk is mechanical at running the floor while Andrea is more fluid and coordinated.
> 
> ...


Dirk's running isn't really mechanical more like chaotic but has a beat. Like Manu ginobili slashing it's not fluid but it works well.

I would need to see Andrea shoot while being bothered to know if he's a good scorer.


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## MVP™ (Jun 11, 2006)

Well not quite, I mean he has the shot but i don't really see him as the next Dirk. I'd probably compare him to an Andre Kirilinko [spell check] but with more shot.


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