# Early MVP Voting results in



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/basketball/14356300.htm

1ST 2ND 3RD
Steve Nash
14 17 4
Dirk Nowitzki
13 6 9
LeBron James
8 8 11
Chauncey Billups
6 4 9
Kobe Bryant
3 7 8
Elton Brand
0 1 2
Dwyane Wade
0 1 0
Tim Duncan
0 0 1

Kobe is getting blown out the water by Nash/Dirk.

Looks like Nash/Dirk are the favorites with Dark horse LeBron still having a chance.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

LW said:


> http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/basketball/14356300.htm
> 
> 1ST 2ND 3RD
> Steve Nash
> ...


Man, how i miss the time when the people voting for the award were *the players themselves*.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I wonder if Kobe and Lebron are canceling each other out in the voting.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't feel bad for Kobe. A historic season is just that - a historic season and will always be remembered. I don't feel bad for LeBron, he will have at least 10 more seasons to prove his point.

I do feel bad for this sport and it's past great players. It's obvious the integrity of MVP voting has been compromised. When I look at player histories, I will no longer consider the MVP trophy as any indication of a player's greatness. To put Steve Nash in as a back-to-back MVP winner to anoint him an official basketball deity is a mockery to what guys like Bill Russel and Michael Jordan did for this league.

Media just doesn't realize how much the MVP (used to) mean to fans and basketball-heads like me. It has [had] historical significance. All that goes right out the window. MVP is a joke.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> I wonder if Kobe and Lebron are canceling each other out in the voting.


how is that possible


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

LW said:


> I don't feel bad for Kobe. A historic season is just that - a historic season and will always be remembered. I don't feel bad for LeBron, he will have at least 10 more seasons to prove his point.
> 
> I do feel bad for this sport and it's past great players. It's obvious the integrity of MVP voting has been compromised. When I look at player histories, I will no longer consider the MVP trophy as any indication of a player's greatness. To put Steve Nash in as a back-to-back MVP winner to anoint him an official basketball deity is a mockery to what guys like Bill Russel and Michael Jordan did for this league.
> 
> Media just doesn't realize how much the MVP (used to) mean to fans and basketball-heads like me. It has [had] historical significance. All that goes right out the window. MVP is a joke.


I agree.


----------



## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Worst voting ever. Should be Kobe by a landslide.


----------



## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

LW said:


> I don't feel bad for Kobe. A historic season is just that - a historic season and will always be remembered. I don't feel bad for LeBron, he will have at least 10 more seasons to prove his point.
> 
> I do feel bad for this sport and it's past great players. It's obvious the integrity of MVP voting has been compromised. When I look at player histories, I will no longer consider the MVP trophy as any indication of a player's greatness. To put Steve Nash in as a back-to-back MVP winner to anoint him an official basketball deity is a mockery to what guys like Bill Russel and Michael Jordan did for this league.
> 
> Media just doesn't realize how much the MVP (used to) mean to fans and basketball-heads like me. It has [had] historical significance. All that goes right out the window. MVP is a joke.


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

DuMa said:


> how is that possible


People that would be apt to consider a player who isn't on a team with over 50 wins, would be split--some voting for Kobe, some for Lebron--whereas the over 50 wins group is more consolidated behind Nash.

It just seems around here, that most of the Kobe/Lebron fans, rank them 1/2 in the MVP voting one way or the other. And then the people who don't rate them 1/2--rank them out at like 4/5.

If there were no Lebron this year, then all of those people voting for Lebron would probably vote for Kobe.


----------



## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

LW said:


> http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/basketball/14356300.htm
> 
> 1ST 2ND 3RD
> Steve Nash
> ...



Wow!! You mean the voters may actually get it right this time? Amazing! Dirk is the MVP.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> If there were no Lebron this year, then all of those people voting for Lebron would probably vote for Kobe.


Problem is, even if you ADD UP LeBron + Kobe's votes, Nash would still have more first place and second place votes. Absurd? Joke? Whatever - MVP doesn't exist to me.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> Wow!! You mean the voters may actually get it right this time? Amazing! Dirk is the MVP.


If not Kobe, I wish Dirk was the MVP - it would make 10x more sense than Steve Nash getting it. But if you look closely, Dirk isn't even close to Nash since 2nd place votes get 4 points, and he is getting second place vote by the bucket.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> People that would be apt to consider a player who isn't on a team with over 50 wins, would be split--some voting for Kobe, some for Lebron--whereas the over 50 wins group is more consolidated behind Nash.
> 
> It just seems around here, that most of the Kobe/Lebron fans, rank them 1/2 in the MVP voting one way or the other. And then the people who don't rate them 1/2--rank them out at like 4/5.
> 
> If there were no Lebron this year, then all of those people voting for Lebron would probably vote for Kobe.


well i thought u meant that most people would either vote for lebron or kobe and i was wondering how does that cancel each other out? most votes win, is it not as simple as that?


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

LW said:


> I don't feel bad for Kobe. A historic season is just that - a historic season and will always be remembered. I don't feel bad for LeBron, he will have at least 10 more seasons to prove his point.
> 
> I do feel bad for this sport and it's past great players. It's obvious the integrity of MVP voting has been compromised. When I look at player histories, I will no longer consider the MVP trophy as any indication of a player's greatness. To put Steve Nash in as a back-to-back MVP winner to anoint him an official basketball deity is a mockery to what guys like Bill Russel and Michael Jordan did for this league.
> 
> Media just doesn't realize how much the MVP (used to) mean to fans and basketball-heads like me. It has [had] historical significance. All that goes right out the window. MVP is a joke.



its part of an era change. i see it as how the NBA has become much more of a team game than what it used to be in the past. the recent trend of MVPs only prove that. its becoming much unneccesary to have one or two MVP caliber players on your team to win the championship. its becoming more and more self-evident that you need a team game (i.e. Pistons, Spurs) to become the elite in the NBA. So it will mean that players leading these elite teams will always be a step behind to the true MVP caliber players of the league.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

DuMa said:


> its part of an era change. i see it as how the NBA has become much more of a team game than what it used to be in the past. the recent trend of MVPs only prove that. its becoming much unneccesary to have one or two MVP caliber players on your team to win the championship. its becoming more and more self-evident that you need a team game (i.e. Pistons, Spurs) to become the elite in the NBA. So it will mean that players leading these elite teams will always be a step behind to the true MVP caliber players of the league.


That's a fair assessment. But let's not forget the greatest and most coveted prize of them all is the championship. That is the "best team" award. Can't we have our "best player" award back? It's been missing for a while now.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)




----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If Nash has 2 MVPs, does that make him the greatest point guard of all-time? Or at least better than Stockton? Stockton has no MVPs. How many MVPs does Magic have? That'd be an insane accomplishment.

Wouldn't that be more MVPs than Shaq too? And not a single title to show for it.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> If Nash has 2 MVPs, does that make him the greatest point guard of all-time? Or at least better than Stockton? Stockton has no MVPs. How many MVPs does Magic have? That'd be an insane accomplishment.
> 
> Wouldn't that be more MVPs than Shaq too? And not a single title to show for it.


MVP is not THE measuring stick.

Karl Malone has 2 with no titlles.
Wilt won 2 or 3 till he got his first ring.
Kareem had like 5 MVPs to one ring.

That being said, it will be very, very weird if Nash wins it back-to-back. I mean, last year there wasn't any player to put up a monster season. Even Shaq, who many felt should win it, had the worse year in his career, stats-wise.

But this year? With Kobe and Lebron exploding the charts?

Weird...


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

I hate the people who vote for this stupid ****ing award. Can't ****ing stand them one bit. Way to trash the history of the ****ing league by giving STEVE NASH two consecutive MVPs. I'm ****ing done with this bull****.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Chauncy Billups is ahead of Kobe in MVP voting.

There goes the credibility of the media...


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Yes, Yes, go Nash though i'd rather see Lebron win it.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

I dont know why people make such a big deal of this. Ask any of those guys whats more important, the MVP or the championship. This is just something the media and fans like to debate about


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Hbwoy said:


> I dont know why people make such a big deal of this.


Because we will have to live the rest of our lives knowing random fans will use 2 MVPs to boast Steve Nash as one of the greatest point guards that ever lived. (Jason Kidd? Who's that?)

Because the NBA no longer has a best player award! We already know what the best team is - the one that wins the championship. We want to be able to look back in history and see who the best player was during a specific year!

Because Kobe will never get his due. (50 wins in 2003 as a championship contender? Not MVP. Carrying his team at a historic level in 2006? Not MVP) I mean, just wtf is MVP? Does it entail long hair and 52 wins instead of 50?


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Someone could average 78 ppg, 15 apg, and 12 rpg and if they had a .500 record...they wouldn't get the MVP. It's turned the entire situation into a joke.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Steve Nash in no way deserves the MVP this year. Not in the slightest. Especially not with having basketball players now sit out and rest to prevent "injury". When did people EVER do this in basketball? In Football, sure... its a high contact sport, but bball? It's ****ing bull****.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

The fact that neither Kobe, LeBron, or Dirk will win is downright disgusting...


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

lol @ Mamba. Poor guy. Settle down son, it'll be ok. I've been trying to tell ya this whole time that he's not even in this discussion. It's better to just accept the reality that the MVP is a team award, and hope that Kobe gets enough help to have the opportunity to win one. Don't be mad.


----------



## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

is this **** official?


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Do early votes = early ballots?

People who wait longer to fill them out will probably tend to vote for players that finished the year on a better pace.


----------



## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

The MAMBA said:


> The fact that neither Kobe, LeBron, or Dirk will win is downright disgusting...


Wow, three straight posts choking on your own disgust...that's impressive.

I've said it before: voters are trying to get cute with the MVP. I don't know when it started, but some voters started making their own ****ty criteria public and then all the other voters followed like sheep. You can't tell me Phoenix is really _that_ much more of a contender than Cleveland or LA. And Steve Nash? Yes, great player, but he should not end his career with more MVP's than Shaq.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ I think that says more about the player Shaq has (hasn't) been than it does about Nash.


----------



## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

speedythief said:


> ^ I think that says more about the player Shaq has (hasn't) been than it does about Nash.


You can't tell me Shaq didn't deserve more MVP's during the Lakers dynasty.


----------



## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

I just have one thing to say about the MVP. It will be a sad day when a player that average 19 and 10, which a teammate that some people believe to be in the MVPrace, wins the MVP over players getting 35/5/5 and 32/7/7, and also PLAYING DEFENSE. YES, HALF OF THE GAME DEFENSE. LET ME SAY IT AGAIN. DEFENSE. YES, IT ACTUALLY MATTERS.


----------



## bandits1 (Mar 26, 2006)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> Wow!! You mean the voters may actually get it right this time? Amazing! Dirk is the MVP.


I agree. Funny how the Kobe-lovers say the MVP-award is crap, but if he won it this season, they would be chanting, "MVP!...MVP!...MVP!...". Just an observation.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Like A Breath said:


> You can't tell me Shaq didn't deserve more MVP's during the Lakers dynasty.


Shaq could be a ten-time MVP. You tell me why he isn't.


----------



## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

bandits1 said:


> I agree. Funny how the Kobe-lovers say the MVP-award is crap, but if he won it this season, they would be chanting, "MVP!...MVP!...MVP!...". Just an observation.


well obviously, because then it wouldn't be crap it would mean something cuz they made the obvious choice... but not just Kobe, Lebron should be there too... i could live with either....

these two are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the NBA...


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

bandits1 said:


> I agree. Funny how the Kobe-lovers say the MVP-award is crap, but if he won it this season, they would be chanting, "MVP!...MVP!...MVP!...". Just an observation.


obviously. the voters realized that points arent the only way to be an MVP


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

:none: nash with two consecutive mvps? Is he really so deserving as to be placed on a list that includes some of the greatest legends of all time, in which a case could be made for any as being the greatest ever!

I mean multiple MVP winners include:

Tim Duncan
Karl Malone
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Moses Malone
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Bob Pettit

:no: IMO he doesnt belong in the ranks of these players. Voters for this award (regardless of how much of a joke it has been made into) must still consider HISTORY when making their decision. Carrying a team of gifted athletes including Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, Boris Diaw, etc. to 52 wins, while being a large accomplishment, pales in comparison to what Dirk Nowitzki has done for the dallas mavericks in winning nearly 10 games more with a similar supporting cast. I believe the suns success in these past two seasons is more a credit to the work of coach Mike D'Antoni and the system he has instilled in his players.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

No one should be surprised. The MVP award is given out mostly based on team wins not actual player impact on their team. Does anyone realize that Wilt never won the MVP award when he posted regular season stats of 50/26 in 1962? Simply because his team record was inferior? 

The MVP award has been a joke for as long as I've been watching basketball (mid-to-late 80's), and from everything I've been able to gather before 1980, it was a joke then too. 

That's what happens when you have the media voting, and not people who actually watch basketball.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Glad to see Nash and LeBron rightfully ahead of Kobe.


----------



## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

SPMJ said:


> Glad to see Nash unjustly ahead of Kobe.


Fixed it for you, because we all know you were thinking it.


----------



## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Well, Nash is a little *****, him and Raja both, he suits up for today's game but not for yesterdays, it's obvious he didn't want to hurt his MVP chances by having Kobe explode for 50 and the Lakers clinch a spot at his expense.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Well, Nash is a little *****, him and Raja both, he suits up for today's game but not for yesterdays, it's obvious he didn't want to hurt his MVP chances by having Kobe explode for 50 and the Lakers clinch a spot at his expense.


U're right, Nash's only 7-0 against LA as a Sun afterall. He had every right to be scared.

btw, Nash/Raja also sat out the night b4 they played against LA.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Well, Nash is a little *****, him and Raja both, he suits up for today's game but not for yesterdays, it's obvious he didn't want to hurt his MVP chances by having Kobe explode for 50 and the Lakers clinch a spot at his expense.


Are you serious? Nash said his hamstring needed rest until the playoffs!

Wow. Just, wow. So it's true that he sat out on National Television vs. Lakers to get MVP nods? I remember he did the same thing in March - sat out versus the Spurs on national TV. Everyone was going crazy that night cuz PHX was getting blown out. All I could hear was "This is why Nash is the MVP." I mean, no **** Suns would get blown out by Spurs, esp. since they were neck and neck with Dallas for the first seed.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Well, Nash is a little *****, him and Raja both, he suits up for today's game but not for yesterdays, it's obvious he didn't want to hurt his MVP chances by having Kobe explode for 50 and the Lakers clinch a spot at his expense.


this blows Mamba out of the water for most pathetic post made by a kobe-lover


----------



## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Well, Nash is a little *****, him and Raja both, he suits up for today's game but not for yesterdays, it's obvious he didn't want to hurt his MVP chances by having Kobe explode for 50 and the Lakers clinch a spot at his expense.


There ya go. That's what Nash was thinking. 

I'm all for Kobe or James winning the MVP, but let's hold back on the conspiracy theories. 

Especially the absolute ridiculous ones.


----------



## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

DuMa said:


> this blows Mamba out of the water for most pathetic post made by a kobe-lover


How so, it seems as if Nash is willing to sit out games that could damage his shot at an Mvp trophy, he's done it a couple of times already this season. If he does become MVP he will probably be the only one that sat out games at the end of the season against an other candidate but played the next game a night after.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> U're right, Nash's only 7-0 against LA as a Sun afterall. He had every right to be scared.
> 
> btw, Nash/Raja also sat out the night b4 they played against LA.


That was only to keep the conspiracy theorists off of him. thug_immortal8 is too smart for him though. It's obvious that Nash is scared of Kobe and everything he does at this point of the season is to get the MVP award.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I agree about the Nash MVP situation on sitting out against Kobe. Let's face it the Suns with Nash, and Bell were not going to beat LA. The Lakers are in a do or die situation. Just like the Kings and Jazz have been. Guess what the Lakers, Kings, and Jazz are beating every team right now. Teams that have something to play for will come at you for blood. A team thats sitting pretty like the Suns wouldnt have that kind of intensity. Just look at all the good teams that are locks that are losing, the Pistons, Suns have been sliding the past 10 games by the way, the Nuggets have been losing, the Heat and etc If a Suns team filled with Nash, Bell, and Marion lost to a hungry Lakers team with a player like Kobe going off for 40 or 50 points, that would hurt Nash's chances IMO to win the MVP.

IMO Bryant is the MVP of this season. However I realize a lot of the media are in love with Nash, and he may win his second, but it's still to early to tell.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> The fact that neither Kobe, LeBron, or Dirk will win is downright disgusting...


Someone is mad???? Lol :biggrin:


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

socco said:


> That was only to keep the conspiracy theorists off of him. thug_immortal8 is too smart for him though. It's obvious that Nash is scared of Kobe and everything he does at this point of the season is to get the MVP award.


I guess you're right. Remember how scared Nash looked just a week ago when Kobe dropped 50 on him in a _blowout_ loss? That must've scared him off. He's obviously too scared to beat the crap out of LA again and further prove himself as the MVP. I wouldn't be surprised if he sits out the 1st round too.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Steve Nash in no way deserves the MVP this year. Not in the slightest. Especially not with having basketball players now sit out and rest to prevent "injury". When did people EVER do this in basketball? In Football, sure... its a high contact sport, but bball? It's ****ing bull****.


If the Lakers had Phoenix record you can bet Kobe will sit out too to prevent injury.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

To be honest I dont even like Kobe, I despise him matter of fact BUT he deserved this award more than Steve Nash. I cant imagine where the lakers would be without Kobe. Thats what the MVP should be about


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

23AJ said:


> I agree about the Nash MVP situation on sitting out against Kobe. Let's face it the Suns with Nash, and Bell were not going to beat LA. The Lakers are in a do or die situation. Just like the Kings and Jazz have been. Guess what the Lakers, Kings, and Jazz are beating every team right now. Teams that have something to play for will come at you for blood. A team thats sitting pretty like the Suns wouldnt have that kind of intensity. Just look at all the good teams that are locks that are losing, the Pistons, Suns have been sliding the past 10 games by the way, the Nuggets have been losing, the Heat and etc If a Suns team filled with Nash, Bell, and Marion lost to a hungry Lakers team with a player like Kobe going off for 40 or 50 points, that would hurt Nash's chances IMO to win the MVP.
> 
> IMO Bryant is the MVP of this season. However I realize a lot of the media are in love with Nash, and he may win his second, but it's still to early to tell.


or maybe, just maybe he was sitting out due to an ailing injury to become prepared for something thats more important than the MVP? the playoffs maybe? but nah that makes too much sense.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Nash doesnt deserve this award

if going by record its Dirk. If going by players its Lebron or Kobe. 

wtf are these voters thinking? Nash didnt deserve 1, yet alone 2


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Nash has just done everything right to garner MVP attention. He's always able to make his case, whether its by carrying his team without Amare under the perception of suckiness, making the fancy passes on national television, or being a humble guy in interviews. He carries a smile whenever the camera happens to be on him. He is perceived as the underdog, the guy you have to love.

Kobe on the other hand does everything wrong. When he is on national television he usually has off games. When he is interviewed, he is still in "intense competitor" mode. When the going gets tough, his intuition is to save the day by going 1 on 5, national television or not. He hurt just about every part of his leg this season (hamstring, ankles, and shins) and refused to sit out of a game. When he elbowed Mike Miller, instead of apologizing, he goes Braveheart on us - "Protect our floor. No one shall entire the lane." He's even made Kwame Brown look good! But instead of making a case for himself by making the fancy pass, he's just playing his game, and doesn't get the proverbial "making his teammates better" praise.

Kobe was just not meant to play in an NBA where perception is such a huge factor.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

DuMa said:


> or maybe, just maybe he was sitting out due to an ailing injury to become prepared for something thats more important than the MVP? the playoffs maybe? but nah that makes too much sense.


Is that why he's playing in a meaningless game vs. NOK? Nash isn't injured. He's always had back problems, but I don't even remember when he "hurt his hamstring". Both he and Bell are both perfectly fine today - ONE DAY after playing the Lakers.

Although I don't believe in conspiracy theories, I know D'Antoni has a coach's mind. By sitting Nash and Bell a win over the Lakers would have crushed Kobe and Co. A loss would not even be so bad, there would be an excuse. On the other hand, if Nash played Sunday and Lakers managed to win, there would be everything for PHX to lose - Morale, MVP, you name it.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Crazy how when given the chance, these _writers_ [note--guys who have *never* played anything competitive in their lives] will vote for the guy that shares their skin tone, instead of awarding it to the players who it rightfully belongs to--the LeBrons, the Kobes. Those players will land one eventually I hope, unless some other guy that the writers can relate to is having a great season.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> To be honest I dont even like Kobe, I despise him matter of fact BUT he deserved this award more than Steve Nash. I cant imagine where the lakers would be without Kobe. Thats what the MVP should be about


You could say the same about all those MVP candidates and other teams superstars.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

sherako said:


> [note--guys who have *never* played anything competitive in their lives]


That's a stupid generalization.


sherako said:


> will vote for the guy that shares their skin tone


Even stupider.

btw, I figured some of the guys who voted were black, so I decided I would search through the names in the article to see. Didn't take long, the first guy listed, Roscoe Nance, is black. And guess what, he voted for Nash. :laugh:


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> If the Lakers had Phoenix record you can bet Kobe will sit out too to prevent injury.


No he wouldn't. He a) loves to play too much and b) never has, even when his Laker teams were sitting higher than any Suns team. 

This is getting to be ridiculous with what teams are doing. LeBron had a legitimate reason to sit, cause he had an injured ankle...what's wrong with Nash? Are you going to play not to get hurt? Injuries happen regardless. You can turn your ankle getting out of bed the wrong way. Why live and play like a complete *****? It's just not right.


----------



## FlyingTiger (Aug 4, 2002)

thanks for the link..great news..my 2 fav players!! for all the kobe lovers.... how are the lakers better then last year???? if kobe didnt get hurt last year..they would prob have the same record as this year.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> No he wouldn't. He a) loves to play too much and b) never has, even when his Laker teams were sitting higher than any Suns team.
> 
> This is getting to be ridiculous with what teams are doing. LeBron had a legitimate reason to sit, cause he had an injured ankle...what's wrong with Nash? Are you going to play not to get hurt? Injuries happen regardless. You can turn your ankle getting out of bed the wrong way. Why live and play like a complete *****? It's just not right.


Edit you sig and put a ? mark..... :biggrin:


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

LW said:


> Is that why he's playing in a meaningless game vs. NOK? Nash isn't injured. He's always had back problems, but I don't even remember when he "hurt his hamstring". Both he and Bell are both perfectly fine today - ONE DAY after playing the Lakers.
> 
> Although I don't believe in conspiracy theories, I know D'Antoni has a coach's mind. By sitting Nash and Bell a win over the Lakers would have crushed Kobe and Co. A loss would not even be so bad, there would be an excuse. On the other hand, if Nash played Sunday and Lakers managed to win, there would be everything for PHX to lose - Morale, MVP, you name it.


a couple days of rest does wonders for your body after a long season. anything longer and you risk losing your rhythm and chemistry, which the suns rely on heavily. it doesnt really surprise me to see bell and nash taking part in tonight's game. they want to continue that cohesiveness. 

even it wasnt about that you'd be right, the suns had nothing to gain by playing the LAL game at full strength, with nash playing or not. so why take that risk?


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

sherako said:


> Crazy how when given the chance, these _writers_ [note--guys who have *never* played anything competitive in their lives] will vote for the guy that shares their skin tone, instead of awarding it to the players who it rightfully belongs to--the LeBrons, the Kobes. Those players will land one eventually I hope, unless some other guy that the writers can relate to is having a great season.



Geez, that is stretching it.

I personally don't think Nash is the MVP this year but I think he is worthy of consideration. A lot of people are probably taking the view that he was the MVP last year and his numbers this year are right on par or better than last year, the team overachieved from what most people thought and they did it all without Amare. 

Plus the history of the MVP has almost always gone to teams with better records than what the Lakers have.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

DuMa said:


> this blows Mamba out of the water for most pathetic post made by a kobe-lover


What was pathetic about any of my posts? It was all fact. Don't hate my posts cause of my username, and who my favorite player is. Actually, scratch that... Hate me all you like.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> Edit you sig and put a ? mark..... :biggrin:


He may not win the hardware...but he is most certainly the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER within every meaning of the word.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> Nash doesnt deserve this award
> 
> if going by record its Dirk. If going by players its Lebron or Kobe.
> 
> wtf are these voters thinking? Nash didnt deserve 1, yet alone 2


They think Nash is the MVP and so do i.

[email protected] guy who brought race to this... :laugh:


----------



## thacarter (Mar 27, 2006)

Man, this is gonna be a travesty if Nash wins back-back MVP's..im watching the suns/hornets game,man the suns have a freefall offense that just about anybody running the point can get the job done, all they do is jack three pointers....Nash is a good pg, but if he should win this year's MVP,it puts him in a legendary status that he doesnt deserve,**** David Stern if Nash should win it again this year..i say give it to Dirk


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> He may not win the hardware...but he is most certainly the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER within every meaning of the word.


Yes, to some die hard Kobe fans and bunch of wannabes.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> Yes, to some die hard Kobe fans and bunch of wannabes.


AKA Knowledgeable basketball fans and players!!! Don't be mad VC has never even been throw in MVP talks.


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

*Circumstance* is in full support of Nash for back-to-back MVPs. Personally I would like Dirk to win this yr.

*1st MVP*
~ Phoenix went from 29-53 the previous yr to 62-20.
~ No other player on a winning team wasn't really putting up great stats. Shaq's & Duncan's #s were down compared to their usual dominant seasons & KG & Bryant were on lottery teams.
~ Nash had by far the more assists than the 2nd ranked player.
~ His supporting cast had career yrs like Marion, Q-Rich, JJ & Amare.

*2nd MVP*
~ Complete team makeover including 3 out of their 5 starters from the previous yr had been lost b/c of trades or injury including their #1 offensive option, Amare.
~The league would be totally hypocritical if they didn't reward Nash again b/c circumstance has him more deserving this yr than last.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Don't be mad VC has never even been throw in MVP talks.


Well, to be fair, neither has Kobe.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

The MAMBA said:


> What was pathetic about any of my posts? It was all *fact*. Don't hate my posts cause of my username, and who my favorite player is. Actually, scratch that... Hate me all you like.


fact huh? lets review



The MAMBA said:


> I hate the people who vote for this stupid ****ing award. Can't ****ing stand them one bit. Way to trash the history of the ****ing league by giving STEVE NASH two consecutive MVPs. I'm ****ing done with this bull****.


sounds like an opinion to me.



The MAMBA said:


> Someone could average 78 ppg, 15 apg, and 12 rpg and if they had a .500 record...they wouldn't get the MVP. It's turned the entire situation into a joke.


sounds like another opinion to me



The MAMBA said:


> Steve Nash in no way deserves the MVP this year. Not in the slightest. Especially not with having basketball players now sit out and rest to prevent "injury". When did people EVER do this in basketball? In Football, sure... its a high contact sport, but bball? It's ****ing bull****.


hmm fact? no its an opinion. 


The MAMBA said:


> The fact that neither Kobe, LeBron, or Dirk will win is downright disgusting...


hey im all for your opinions, sorry those were opinions. thats just homerism.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

I have noticed ANY thread involving Kobe will partition itself into two groups. One group will defend Kobe as the other groups literally takes shots at Kobe as much as possible. I mean, I don't even hear people defending LeBron much (he is getting robbed point blank as well!). How come no one is taking shots at Chauncey's (undeserved) position? How come we've only had 1 poster say that Dirk should be winning this **** award if it was truly a matter of team record?

Bottom line is, there is no denying the existance of Kobe Hate. It's just a matter of fact. I also love when Kobe haters say they don't hate Kobe. Denial is the first step I guess.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

heh if Mamba is this upset when just the preliminary results are in, i hate to see his posts when the real results come in.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Oh well, maybe I'm just heated... I'll cool down. Can't think rationally when pissed, lol.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

socco said:


> That's a stupid generalization.


No other legit explanation as to why Nash is on top of the ballot. Might as well make up stuff since thats what the writers are doing to nominate their guy.



> Even stupider. btw, I figured some of the guys who voted were black, so I decided I would search through the names in the article to see. Didn't take long, the first guy listed, Roscoe Nance, is black. And guess what, he voted for Nash. :laugh:


Doesn't matter if the last guy was Malaysian. The majority of them are caucasian. You know this. They figure, might as well vote while the votins' good, never once stopping to clear their mind of that mess. Larry Bird vocalized it back in that interview he did with Magic along with Melo/LeBron in their rookie year. There wasn't a backlash from it because the same people managing the media, were those exact same who had their sentiments being expressed. Deep down these humans all feel the same.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> AKA Knowledgeable basketball fans and players!!! Don't be mad VC has never even been throw in MVP talks.


hehehee, I could care less but ya boy Kobe aint getting it this year and never has gotten it in his entire career. He has Zero just like Vince and being mentioned in "MVP talks" don't mean anything as Carter been talked about concerning "MVP" last year and earlier this season, so suck it up will ya. :biggrin:


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> Well, to be fair, neither has Kobe.


Uhh, yeah he has. You have major sports writers and announcers with him in the "talks" and equations. Some even selecting him as their MVP. That certainly is validation that he is within the "MVP TALKS". I don't get where you got that from.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> hehehee, I could care less but ya boy Kobe aint getting it this year and never has gotten it in his entire career. He has Zero just like Vince and being mentioned in "MVP talks" don't mean anything as Carter been talked about concerning "MVP" last year and earlier this season, so suck it up will ya. :biggrin:


Did you just compare Kobe and Vince?

Wow.

I've seen it all.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> hehehee, I could care less but ya boy Kobe aint getting it this year and never has gotten it in his entire career. He has Zero just like Vince and being mentioned in "MVP talks" don't mean anything as Carter been talked about concerning "MVP" last year and earlier this season, so suck it up will ya. :biggrin:


I will. While I can fall back on the fact that he has 3 CHIPS. :biggrin:


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

LW said:


> Did you just compare Kobe and Vince?
> 
> Wow.
> 
> I've seen it all.


No your mind made you to believe that, so go ahead BELIEVE IT. :biggrin: 

I love it when Kobe fans get emotional. :banana:


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

neoxsupreme said:


> *Circumstance* is in full support of Nash for back-to-back MVPs. Personally I would like Dirk to win this yr.
> 
> *1st MVP*
> ~ Phoenix went from 29-53 the previous yr to 62-20.
> ...


not to mention almost every player including marion is having a career year. nash has much to do with that as much as the system does.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> I will. While I can fall back on the fact that he has 3 CHIPS. :biggrin:


With the help of Shaq... :biggrin:


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

sherako said:


> No other legit explanation as to why Nash is on top of the ballot. Might as well make up stuff since thats what the writers are doing to nominate their guy.


Uh, he was the MVP last year and is even better this year. Some people didn't even think the Suns would make the playoffs, even if Amare came back. Yet they haven't missed a beat even with all the players they lost. I don't think Nash is the MVP either but to not see any reason other than race is just ignorant. I understand your're upset that your boyfriend is not gonna win the MVP, that's no reason to stop thinking. How do you explain that one black guy (haven't bothered to see if any of the others were too) voting for Nash if there's no reason other than race to vote for him? 



sherako said:


> Doesn't matter if the last guy was Malaysian. The majority of them are caucasian. You know this. They figure, might as well vote while the votins' good, never once stopping to clear their mind of that mess. Larry Bird vocalized it back in that interview he did with Magic along with Melo/LeBron in their rookie year. There wasn't a backlash from it because the same people managing the media, were those exact same who had their sentiments being expressed. Deep down these humans all feel the same.


So because most of them are white, and most of them voted for somebody is white, they must've voted for that person just because he's white? Makes alot of sense. :nonono:



The MAMBA said:


> Uhh, yeah he has. You have major sports writers and announcers with him in the "talks" and equations. Some even selecting him as their MVP. That certainly is validation that he is within the "MVP TALKS". I don't get where you got that from.


Getting a couple votes here and there does not constitute being in the discussion. And we're obviously talking about a legitimate discussion for the MVP. Kobe's never been in contention.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> With the help of Shaq... :biggrin:


Of course, and Shaq got them with the help of Kobe. No star player has EVER won a championship w/o the help of another star. It's just a that damn true. So there is no excuses for your boy. Seeing as how he played with T-Mac, and now rolls with Jason Kidd (best PG of the modern era) and Richard Jefferson and Nenad Kristic.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> Getting a couple votes here and there does not constitute being in the discussion. And we're obviously talking about a legitimate discussion for the MVP. Kobe's never been in contention.


Getting votes means you're in the conversation. Let alone just being in the conversation is certainly validation as being in the MVP talks, bro. I know you don't like Kobe, and I know you don't like me cause I like Kobe, and you would do anything to dis-credit Kobe or a Kobe fan...but he is most certainly in the talks. Whether he wins or not, he is in the discussion.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Of course, and Shaq got them with the help of Kobe. No star player has EVER won a championship w/o the help of another star. It's just a that damn true. So there is no excuses for your boy. Seeing as how he played with T-Mac, and now rolls with Jason Kidd (best PG of the modern era) and Richard Jefferson and Nenad Kristic.


Yeah Tmac who had no jumpshot and was a skinny rookie.

We'll see about his current teamates though in the next couple of weeks or next year.

Now i don't wanna take it off-topic so i'll leave you with this homeboy..

*The easiest job in the nba is to be Shaq's teammate - SPJM*
*
Either Nash or Lebron should be the MVP, okay through Dirk in there.* :biggrin:


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

And? lol... that's why Shaq has only won rings with Kobe. If it was thast easy, everyone who has played with him would have won one. It would be just as easy to play with Scottie Pippen, or Kareem... fact is, no superstar has ever one it on their lonesome. Kobe has 3 CHIPS, to vc's donut....


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*witness my use of pronouns*



socco said:


> Uh, he was the MVP last year and is even better this year. Some people didn't even think the Suns would make the playoffs, even if Amare came back.


Nobody thought that. Stop lying! 



> Yet they haven't missed a beat even with all the players they lost. I don't think Nash is the MVP either but to not see any reason other than race is just ignorant. I understand your're upset that your boyfriend is not gonna win the MVP, that's no reason to stop thinking.


I'm not upset at all. Frankly I'm extremely tired right now, waiting for this laundry to finish so I can visit the land of Nod thereby freeing me from reading your banal posts. And really for you to single this down to me being a Kobe fan is ignorant, since I thought Shaquille was the best choice last year and I'd be fine with LeBron getting it this year.



> How do you explain that one black guy (haven't bothered to see if any of the others were too) voting for Nash if there's no reason other than race to vote for him?


It doesn't matter.



> So because most of them are white, and most of them voted for somebody is white, they must've voted for that person just because he's white? Makes alot of sense. :nonono:


It isn't like that all across the board, but that definitely has something to do with it, whether conscious or unconscious.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> Yeah Tmac who had no jumpshot and was a skinny rookie.
> 
> We'll see about his current teamates though in the next couple of weeks or next year.
> 
> ...


Did you just quote SPJM?

After a post comparing Kobe to Vince?

Wow.

I've seen it all twice.


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Did anyone read this article on ESPN.com: 101 Things We Learned This Season 


> 2. *Flagrant stupidity*
> Here's why Kobe Bryant can't be MVP. On Dec. 28, he commits a premeditated flagrant foul on Mike Miller (elbow to the neck), Miller makes the two free throws and the Grizzlies win 100-99 in overtime. Then Bryant brags about the elbow and gets suspended two games, which become two losses to Utah. One elbow, three Ls. -- ESPN.com


Kobe's bad decision to elbow Mike Miller may have cost him the MVP. They're basically stating that a real leader wouldn't have lost his head over a play. It cost the Lakers 3 potential wins.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Getting votes, let alone being in the conversation is certainly validation as being in the MVP talks bro. I know you don't like Kobe, and I know you don't like me cause I like Kobe, and you would do anything to dis-credit Kobe or a Kobe fan...but he is most certainly in the talks. Whether he wins or not, he is in the discussion.


No, despite whatever you want to say about me (thanks for letting me know that I'm right btw), he's not.



sherako said:


> Nobody thought that. Stop lying!


It's been a while since I've put somebody in this many boxes.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-PhoenixPreview0506



sherako said:


> I'm not upset at all. Frankly I'm extremely tired right now, waiting for this laundry to finish so I can visit the land of Nod thereby freeing me from reading your banal posts. And really for you to single this down to me being a Kobe fan is ignorant, since I thought Shaquille was the best choice last year and I'd be fine with LeBron getting it this year.


Did I call Mamba ignorant? No, because he didn't *ignorantly* blame Kobe not getting it on racism.



sherako said:


> It doesn't matter.


It doesn't matter? You said that the only possible explanation for somebody voting Steve Nash as MVP is because he's the same skin color as them. Well, somebody with a different skin color voted for him, and now you're saying that it doesn't matter?



sherako said:


> It isn't like that all across the board, but that definitely has something to do with it, whether conscious or unconscious.


If that makes you feel better...


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

neoxsupreme said:


> Did anyone read this article on ESPN.com: 101 Things We Learned This Season
> 
> Kobe's bad decision to elbow Mike Miller may have cost him the MVP. They're basically stating that a real leader wouldn't have lost his head over a play. It cost the Lakers 3 potential wins.


If you ask any Laker fan they will tell you that elbow is the reason Lamar Odom now has a spine. The same reason why Kwame Brown is no longer know as a (small cat).

They were slumping. Mike Miller punked Kobe by throwing an elbow at him. Kobe responded with an elbow to Mike Miller while he was getting fancy with a drive down the lane. Afterward the incident, Kobe told his teammates that protecting the lane, especially at home, is essential to winning games. He said he does not apologize for sending a message to both his teammates and potential adversaries. Lakers were under .500 at home before the incident. Now they are 26-14. Yup Kobe cost them 3 games. Good spin.

BTW, you read ESPN? The worst/most biased media there is?


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> No, despite whatever you want to say about me (thanks for letting me know that I'm right btw), he's not.


Is that even a response? Are you saying if you don't win, you're not in the talks?

He has been recognized by countless peers, analysts, commentators as being in their active conversations of MVP...and some have even pointed out, that they would name him the MVP. How does that equate to not being within the MVP talks?


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> And? lol... that's why Shaq has only won rings with Kobe. If it was thast easy, everyone who has played with him would have won one. It would be just as easy to play with Scottie Pippen, or Kareem... fact is, no superstar has ever one it on their lonesome. *Kobe has 3 CHIPS, to vc's donut....*


Fine MAMBA........lol.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

LW said:


> Did you just quote SPJM?
> 
> After a post comparing Kobe to Vince?
> 
> ...


Wow, you still think i was comparing the two.

If yes, there is nothing i can do for you.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Is that even a response? Are you saying if you don't win, you're not in the talks?
> 
> He has been recognized by countless peers, analysts, commentators as being in their active conversations of MVP...and some have even pointed out, that they would name him the MVP. How does that equate to not being within the MVP talks?


He's never been a legitimate MVP candidate. Not sure how many other ways I have to say it. There's never been a chance for him to be the MVP. I'm saying if there's absolutely no chance for you to win, or come close to winning the MVP that you're not in talks for winning that MVP. Simple common sense.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

> It's been a while since I've put somebody in this many boxes.
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-PhoenixPreview0506


Not sure what you are getting at...only two of the twelve writers had them not making the playoffs. 



> It doesn't matter? You said that the only possible explanation for somebody voting Steve Nash as MVP is because he's the same skin color as them. Well, somebody with a different skin color voted for him, and now you're saying that it doesn't matter?


I said thats the only reason why he's in the lead, and has such a large margin. Read again.



> If that makes you feel better...


It makes me feel great.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> He's never been a legitimate MVP candidate. Not sure how many other ways I have to say it. There's never been a chance for him to be the MVP.


That is your opinion speaking. There is a difference between not having much chance of winning, and still being in the MVP talks. You said he wasn't in the talks, and he is very much an active member of EVERY series of MVP dicussion.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> Wow, you still think i was comparing the two.
> 
> If yes, there is nothing i can do for you.


Thanks for the correction. I'm glad you agree Vince should not be compared to Kobe.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

sherako said:


> Crazy how when given the chance, these _writers_ [note--guys who have *never* played anything competitive in their lives] will vote for the guy that shares their skin tone, instead of awarding it to the players who it rightfully belongs to--the LeBrons, the Kobes. Those players will land one eventually I hope, unless some other guy that the writers can relate to is having a great season.


What an idiotic post.


----------



## Hoopla (Jun 1, 2004)

Two points:

1) The article mentions that more than a third of the voting field was tallied. That leaves up to almost 2/3 of the votes not being counted, which is significant. So it's premature to give Nash the award now.

2) I agree that the MVP award doesn't hold much merit, but at the same time you can't expect voters to avoid picking Nash because he shouldn't have more MVPs than Shaq. They shouldn't select him because he's not deserving of the MVP this year. However, if he was a 6th man his entire career, but played like Magic Johnson the past 2 years, then he would definitely deserve 2 awards. Total number of MVP awards aren't meant to be a stand-alone measure of career greatness.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

LW said:


> Thanks for the correction. I'm glad you agree Vince should not be compared to Kobe.


Yep, not the current VC.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> Yep, not the current VC.


There is only one VC. He wasn't cloned.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Doh, a lot of people were saying on this board the Suns wouldn't make the playoffs without Amare.

Nash = MVP bottom line he had yet another MVP season don't try to take anything away from it, it is just ridiculous. What he has done this year has been done only 3 times in the history of the league 90%+ FT, 50%+ FG%, 40%+ 3pt% and for most part of the season averaging 19+/11+ which nobody had done since Magic Johnson.

Nash = 2 consecutive MVP's and should and will be remembered as one of the greatest PGs of all time in his prime. Just swallow it haters. Stockton has the edge on Nash career wise but Nash beats out Stockton when both were in their prime. Don't bring up stats from almost 20 years ago now, it's worthless. In Stockton's prime days a lot of PGs who aren't considered all-time greats put up 10+apg seasons.

I love how all the Steve Nash haters are downgrading the MVP award yet again because the guy they want to win rightfully doesn't win. If Kobe won they would be all over it and how great of an accomplishment it is for Kobe to win his first MVP award.

Though doesn't matter now, Steve Nash 2 time MVP.

And please STFU about Nash winning because he is white. How did Shaq, Duncan and all those guys win it before?


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

sherako said:


> Not sure what you are getting at...only two of the twelve writers had them not making the playoffs.


"Nobody thought that. Stop lying!" Um, I think it's pretty obvious what I'm getting at. You said nobody thought that, and accused me of lying. I proved that people thought that. 



sherako said:


> I said thats the only reason why he's in the lead, and has such a large margin. Read again.


So we just ignore the black people who vote for him then? Obviously there's something there other than race.



sherako said:


> It makes me feel great.


It would make me feel sick and ashamed of myself. I guess that's where we differ.



The MAMBA said:


> That is your opinion speaking. There is a difference between not having much chance of winning, and still being in the MVP talks. You said he wasn't in the talks, and he is very much an active member of EVERY series of MVP dicussion.


Alright, he's not in any legitimate MVP discussion. That better?


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca, I thought you were going to change your name... after your boy crashed and burned on his comeback attempt.

Amare: "Tell me I can't...I don't hear you."

Suns trainer: "Uhh Amare, you can't. You have about a gallon of liquid in your right knee."

Amare: "Ohh, ok."


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> There is only one VC. He wasn't cloned.


 :laugh: 

The old VC was better, duh.

please stay on topic. :biggrin:


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> Alright, he's not in any legitimate MVP discussion. That better?


He is still in the "legitimate" talks as well. He will get votes. That means he is in the "legitimate" talks. He just won't win.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

sherako said:


> No other legit explanation as to why Nash is on top of the ballot. Might as well make up stuff since thats what the writers are doing to nominate their guy.
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter if the last guy was Malaysian. The majority of them are caucasian. You know this. They figure, might as well vote while the votins' good, never once stopping to clear their mind of that mess. Larry Bird vocalized it back in that interview he did with Magic along with Melo/LeBron in their rookie year. There wasn't a backlash from it because the same people managing the media, were those exact same who had their sentiments being expressed. Deep down these humans all feel the same.














> *Ethnix* is an extremely powerful Warrior who effectively wields his ethnic origins to undermine his opponents in battle. The accusation of racism immediately puts even the most powerful Warriors on the defensive, and Ethnix can use this weapon to deftly shift from defense to offense, keeping other Warriors off balance. Envious of Ethnix's power, Impostor will impersonate him when the opportunity arises.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Amareca, I thought you were going to change your name... after your boy crashed and burned on his comeback attempt.
> 
> Amare: "Tell me I can't...I don't hear you."
> 
> ...


No I am much more enjoying that you probably read this thread and tears were running down your face.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

socco said:


> "Nobody thought that. Stop lying!" Um, I think it's pretty obvious what I'm getting at. You said nobody thought that, and accused me of lying. I proved that people thought that.


Those people that thought that (Bucher & Stein) qualify as nobodies. This is elementary. I'm still schooling you yet you've graduated already.



> So we just ignore the black people who vote for him then? Obviously there's something there other than race.


Exactly. I never said it was the only factor. But indeed tis a central one, at the core of these ideologies.



> It would make me feel sick and ashamed of myself. I guess that's where we differ.


 Well if you live in a weak mental frame then you eventually must deal with that. You are the one waking up in the morning with that mental sewage, not me.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> :laugh:
> 
> The old VC was better, duh.
> 
> please stay on topic. :biggrin:


Ahh, My boy Air Fly... enamoured with eye candy highlights. If you saw Shawn Kemp, you'd probably nut your pants, and say he was the Greatest Player to Ever play the game...

If you know basketball, and are an actual fan and student of the game... you'd know Vince is better now, then he was within his first 3 years. VC fans want to use that standard to act as if they can compare him to anybody, because they don't have a legitimate argument with the current Vince. So they make out young Vince to be some mythic Bball god. Only think VC then has is alittle more athleticism and a little more hops. VC is a more complete and smarter player now. Even VC would tell you this.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> He is still in the "legitimate" talks as well. He will get votes. That means he is in the "legitimate" talks. He just won't win.


No, he's not. He has no possible chance of winning. He's not a legitimate MVP candidate. PJ Brown even got a vote.



sherako said:


> Those people that thought that (Bucher & Stein) qualify as nobodies. This is elementary. I'm still schooling you yet you've graduated already.


So there are people that thought that, but we're just ignoring those people? Makes sense.




sherako said:


> Exactly. I never said it was the only factor. But indeed tis a central one, at the core of these ideologies.


Why? Because he's white? OK, and KG, Duncan, Shaqi, AI, Jordan, etc. all won it because they're black. People consciously or subconsciously think black people are better basketball players, and that's why they won.



sherako said:


> Well if you live in a weak mental frame then you eventually must deal with that. You are the one waking up in the morning with that mental sewage, not me.


I'm really starting to feel sorry for you.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Amareca said:


> No I am much more enjoying that you probably read this thread and tears were running down your face.


 :rofl: :rotf:


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca said:


> No I am much more enjoying that you probably read this thread and tears were running down your face.


The tears turned to laughter when I saw you show up in the thread. Your name makes me laugh.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

LW said:


> They were slumping. Mike Miller punked Kobe by throwing an elbow at him. Kobe responded with an elbow to Mike Miller while he was getting fancy with a drive down the lane.


I love revisionism.

Miller wasn't even looking at Kobe on that play and was trying to finish a shot. That "elbow" (actually a stray open hand that caught Kobe) was completely unintentional.

Does no one remember that ****in' play?

That **** happens. How many guys shed blood and took stitches defending a shot this season? I can think of Marion and Battier (twice) off the top of my head.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Ahh, My boy Air Fly... enamoured with eye candy highlights. If you saw Shawn Kemp, you'd probably nut your pants, and say he was the Greatest Player to Ever play the game...
> 
> If you know basketball, and are an actual fan and student of the game... you'd know Vince is better now, then he was within his first 3 years. VC fans want to use that standard to act as if they can compare him to anybody, because they don't have a legitimate argument with the current Vince. So they make out young Vince to be some mythic Bball god. Only think VC then has is alittle more athleticism and a little more hops. VC is a more complete and smarter player now. Even VC would tell you this.


Okay MAMBA, i refuse to discuss this since its way off-topic. :biggrin:


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> No, he's not. He has no possible chance of winning. He's not a legitimate MVP candidate. PJ Brown even got a vote.


Yeah, but Kobe will have ALOT more. And will be in the top 5 contenders. That is IN the legitimate talks. He just won't win. There is a difference.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

like i've said before, if lebron or kobe doesn't win the mvp, it's a joke. dirk and nash should be fighting for 3rd and 4th. but they really just don't compare to lebron and kobe.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Yeah, but Kobe will have ALOT more. And will be in the top 5 contenders. That is IN the legitimate talks. He just won't win. There is a difference.


No, Dirk Nowitzki won't win. He's a legitimate contender though. Kobe's gonna get a couple votes here and there but has absolutely no chance at coming close to winning. There is a difference.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> No, Dirk Nowitzki won't win. He's a legitimate contender though. Kobe's gonna get a couple votes here and there but has absolutely no chance at coming close to winning. There is a difference.


Yeah, he won't win. But he is in the talks.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

rocketeer said:


> like i've said before, if lebron or kobe doesn't win the mvp, it's a joke. dirk and nash should be fighting for 3rd and 4th. but they really just don't compare to lebron and kobe.


obviously nash and dirk are lesser players than what lebron and kobe is. 

MVP doesnt mean Best player in the league. thats something for the fans to debate on endlessly. if they had an award for best player in the league, the MVP wouldnt get talked about anymore because it would mean ****. MVP means to me the most valuable player of out of the whole league to their own respective teams. 

and right now, nash is rightfully being the frontrunner because he is the most valuable to the whole league to his team.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Rawse said:


> I love revisionism.
> 
> Miller wasn't even looking at Kobe on that play and was trying to finish a shot. That "elbow" (actually a stray open hand that caught Kobe) was completely unintentional.
> 
> ...


Look man, I don't want to nickel and dime over details. Kobe elbowed Mike. That's the deal. Was it wrong? Yeah. But I'm not here to talk about that. Someone was saying it cost the Lakers 3 games. I was pointing out that it sent a message to the spineless Laker scrubs. Anything wrong with what I'm saying?


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

LW said:


> I do feel bad for this sport and it's past great players. It's obvious the integrity of MVP voting has been compromised. When I look at player histories, I will no longer consider the MVP trophy as any indication of a player's greatness. To put Steve Nash in as a back-to-back MVP winner to anoint him an official basketball deity is a mockery to what guys like Bill Russel and Michael Jordan did for this league.


Good post LW, right on point. 



futuristxen said:


> If Nash has 2 MVPs, does that make him the greatest point guard of all-time? Or at least better than Stockton? Stockton has no MVPs. How many MVPs does Magic have? That'd be an insane accomplishment.


Only 10 players in the history of the league have won two or more MVP's. Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Tim Duncan and Bob Petitt. That's the class Nash is putting himself in by winning another MVP. 

All I have to say is, assuming Nash wins, the Suns have a back to back MVP winner along side a bonafide all-star, alongside another top 50 player, and a talented bench. 

That is clearly the build for a title favorite. If the Suns don't win the title, that means someone isn't living up to their billing.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Why do people act as if you can't have an impact on a game without scoring 30 points? Magic had that impact, Kidd has that impact and Nash has that impact with the Suns. Thats why hes being voted as well as a nice story to go along with it.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*hehe*



> So there are people that thought that, but we're just ignoring those people? Makes sense.


Whatever man.



> Why? Because he's white? OK, and KG, Duncan, Shaqi, AI, Jordan, etc. all won it because they're black. People consciously or subconsciously think black people are better basketball players, and that's why they won.


Believe what you want to.



> I'm really starting to feel sorry for you.


Don't feel sorry for me. Instead feel sorry for all those basketball historians in the future, when asked how Steve Nash won back-to-back MvPs, go blank and are at a loss to explain. Feel sorry for those folks my friend.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Nash > Shaq


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> That is clearly the build for a title favorite. If the Suns don't win the title, that means someone isn't living up to their billing.


Amare Stoudemire is out and Kurt Thomas is still out as well. If Kurt Thomas doesn't come back we have basically no big guy besides Brian Grant.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

LW said:


> Look man, I don't want to nickel and dime over details. Kobe elbowed Mike. That's the deal. Was it wrong? Yeah. But I'm not here to talk about that. Someone was saying it cost the Lakers 3 games. I was pointing out that it sent a message to the spineless Laker scrubs. Anything wrong with what I'm saying?


Nah, that right there is fine by me.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: hehe*



sherako said:


> Don't feel sorry for me. Instead feel sorry for all those basketball historians in the future, when asked how Steve Nash won back-to-back MvPs, go blank and are at a loss to explain. Feel sorry for those folks my friend.


While on the other hand they could say Kobe Bryant won MVP by being on a mediocre team, taking almost 30 shots a game and always staying in the game if he doesn't have at least his averages yet.

Wow that would be a great explanation, much better than Steve Nash directing one of the most amazing offenses ever, putting up historic stats and clearly the best individual PG numbers since Magic's and Stockton's era.

Oh not to mention he beat Kobe's team by double figures everytime..


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

SunsFan57 said:


> Why do people act as if you can't have an impact on a game without scoring 30 points? Magic had that impact, Kidd has that impact and Nash has that impact with the Suns. Thats why hes being voted as well as a nice story to go along with it.


SunsFan57, your concern is legit. But, we're not denying Nashes impact. The dude is a beast. What we are saying is that putting Nash as a back-2-back MVP winner is equal to writing him down as one of the greatest point guards to ever live. Next to Magic ****ing Johnson. MAGIC! 

Meanwhile, guys like Kobe and LeBron and Dirk are getting the shaft. Kobe who has deserved it since 2002-2003. LeBron, I know he'll get his, but he's still outplayed Nash this year. And Dirk! Dirk has done everything Nash has done with almost 10 more wins.

Nash is good player. Scratch that, great player. But Kobe-level? LeBron-level? No way.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: hehe*



sherako said:


> Don't feel sorry for me. Instead feel sorry for all those basketball historians in the future, when asked how Steve Nash won back-to-back MvPs, go blank and are at a loss to explain. Feel sorry for those folks my friend.


Back-to-back MVPs? The hell with that - all the ******, cracka-***-cracka writers (and a few Uncle Toms, but lets not discuss them) are going to give Nash MVPs until he _retires_. Eight straight MVPs! Well, Dirk might win one or two in between. And Wally Szczerbiak.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

The drama just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

LW said:


> But Kobe-level? LeBron-level? No way.


So why are the Lakers not winning the Pacific like they thought when Amare went down?

Why is Phoenix still a top 4 team despite people saying they would have to fight for a playoff spot?

I swear some of you guys just look at individual numbers and dunks and nothing else.

Steve Nash = 2 times MVP and both seasons he was BETTER than Lebron and Kobe, period.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

LW said:


> SunsFan57, your concern is legit. But, we're not denying Nashes impact. The dude is a beast. What we are saying is that putting Nash as a back-2-back MVP winner is equal to writing him down as one of the greatest point guards to ever live. Next to Magic ****ing Johnson. MAGIC!
> 
> Meanwhile, guys like Kobe and LeBron and Dirk are getting the shaft. Kobe who has deserved it since 2002-2003. LeBron, I know he'll get his, but he's still outplayed Nash this year. And Dirk! Dirk has done everything Nash has done with almost 10 more wins.
> 
> Nash is good player. Scratch that, great player. But Kobe-level? LeBron-level? No way.



The MVP has three things every year.

1. A story (Nash)
2. Stats (Nash, not the best but great stats)
3. Hype (Nash/LeBron)

Nash has the story of 7 new guys and all having career years as well as leading a Amareless Suns to 53 wins. Hes also new and fresh and a fun, different style of play that people are attracted to.
And his stats are magic-like. Not Magic-eque, but magic-like.

And did anyone think the media would give it to LeBron or Kobe without 50 wins? Not I say the lonely fan. Dirk doesn't have a cool story nor does Kobe and LeBron.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> Why do people act as if you can't have an impact on a game without scoring 30 points? Magic had that impact, Kidd has that impact and Nash has that impact with the Suns. Thats why hes being voted as well as a nice story to go along with it.


and lebron doesn't impact the game in other ways than scoring? how many times has kobe been on the 1st team for defense?

those guys contribute a lot more than just scoring.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

rocketeer said:


> and lebron doesn't impact the game in other ways than scoring? how many times has kobe been on the 1st team for defense?
> 
> those guys contribute a lot more than just scoring.


I agree. 

LeBron and Kobe are amazing players. But the system the Suns play rely alot on Nash, and I stress alot because they're a totally different team when hes not there.


----------



## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

The hate in this thread is hilarious. Also, why am I not suprised to see the race card pulled? 

Anyway, Nash IS the MVP. See the Suns with, and without Nash and it's more than obvious. He turned the Suns around and everyone had career seasons last year. But this year he's been 100 times better. With no Amare and a bunch of former scrubs except Marion and still the #2 seed. Nash is the MVP for the second straight year, and he should be. Deal with it.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*Re: hehe*



Rawse said:


> Back-to-back MVPs? The hell with that - all the ******, cracka-***-cracka writers (and a few Uncle Toms, but lets not discuss them) are going to give Nash MVPs until he retires. Well, Dirk might win one or two in between. And Wally Szczerbiak.


Dirk I'd give it to before Nash, for the reasons LW stated. Talking seriously now (this means raising the level of discussion), I can't quite understand why folks are so enamored with this player. Are the reasons for this racial? Unknown variable. People seem to go deaf when its brought up, even going so far as to coin such terms like "race cards" and all that. But it shant be ruled out as a possibility is all I'm saying.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Forget the fact that Chauncey has twice as much first place votes compared to Kobe, the bigger injustice is Chuancey has 6 1st place votes while Elton Brand has 0.


This comedy has to stop because its not even funny anymore.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

SunsFan57 said:


> The MVP has three things every year.
> 
> 1. A story (Nash)
> 2. Stats (Nash, not the best but great stats)
> ...


Err. If your avatar didn't give it away your knowledge and your post does. You are a Suns homer.

I don't want to waste too much time arguing on the side in this thread so I'll bring up one example - out of the entire Lakers roster, only 5 guys are from 2004-2005. Only 2 were from 2003-2004.

Cool Story? Do you know people in other countries don't even know who Nash is? Steve who? 81? Oh yeah I know 81. Kobe is 81.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Amareca said:


> So why are the Lakers not winning the Pacific like they thought when Amare went down?
> 
> Why is Phoenix still a top 4 team despite people saying they would have to fight for a playoff spot?
> 
> ...


Steve Nash = the most overrated player in the history of existence beyond the human imagination.

Shaq robbed last year...

Bron/Kobe/Dirk robbed this year...


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

_Who better than Kobe?_
- Amare Stoudemire of Steve Nash's Phoenix Suns


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

I have to remind you that this is only "early" ballots. 

As a Nash fan, I have to say this is quite surprising.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

For the Haters, well maybe he won't but that would be unlikely, it's not going to be Kobe however.
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*
*STEVE NASH = BACK TO BACK MVP*


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Forget the fact that Chauncey has twice as much first place votes compared to Kobe, the bigger injustice is Chuancey has 6 1st place votes while Elton Brand has 0.
> 
> 
> This comedy has to stop because its not even funny anymore.



Here here! 

I can't believe people voted for Chauncey Billups. Have they not been watching Laker/Cav/Suns/Mav games?


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

ClayVTrainum said:


> _Who better than Kobe?_
> - Amare Stoudemire of Steve Nash's Phoenix Suns


So without a Kobe caliber player, Nash still helped the Suns win 53 games and are BETTER than both Lebron and Kobe's team. Next excuse please.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Carbo04 said:


> The hate in this thread is hilarious. Also, why am I not suprised to see the race card pulled?
> 
> Anyway, Nash IS the MVP. See the Suns with, and without Nash and it's more than obvious. He turned the Suns around and everyone had career seasons last year. But this year he's been 100 times better. With no Amare and a bunch of former scrubs except Marion and still the #2 seed. Nash is the MVP for the second straight year, and he should be. Deal with it.


You are the biggest hater on this board. STFU! What you do is hate. We actually have objective arguments. Anyone who says Nash is a better player than even Dirk is a liar... hell just ask Nash.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

That got a lot accomplished. Fool blew a gasket


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Amareca said:


> Steve Nash = 2 times MVP and both seasons he was BETTER than Lebron and Kobe, period.


Overall? Heck no, Nash is no way near Lebron and Kobe's level.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

LW said:


> Err. If your avatar didn't give it away your knowledge and your post does. You are a Suns homer.
> 
> I don't want to waste too much time arguing on the side in this thread so I'll bring up one example - out of the entire Lakers roster, only 5 guys are from 2004-2005. Only 2 were from 2003-2004.
> 
> Cool Story? Do you know people in other countries don't even know who Nash is? Steve who? 81? Oh yeah I know 81. Kobe is 81.



All those 7 players have now been called "Good" players. While some of the Laker players are still scrubs.

Sorry, I come off as a homer. But Nash wasn't my originally choice for MVP.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Overall? Heck no, Nash is no way near Lebron and Kobe's level.


Skill wise, yeah Lebron + Kobe > Nash

Basketball IQ wise, Nash owns them. Oh god, this is good. This is just getting so much fun to read so many hate posts. Quite frankly, I don't really care if Nash wins this season or not but I just enjoy reading the hate posts. Some of them are quite funny.

My vote goes to Kobe and it's just me. Suns fans don't flame me. lol But having said that, Kobe's team is like 3-tier in Nash's division. You gotta give the voters some reasons to vote Kobe over Nash. Scoring doesn't seem like a good enough excuse because we all know Nash isn't a scoring guard. The team's overall performance is what Nash's value is measured.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> I agree.
> 
> LeBron and Kobe are amazing players. But the system the Suns play rely alot on Nash, and I stress alot because they're a totally different team when hes not there.


the lakers are a completely different team when kobe isn't there. same with the cavs and lebron.

and the suns have 53 wins. the cavs have 49. both have likely wins if lebron and nash play in their last games. let's just assume the cavs lose anyway. the mvp should go to nash with his 54 win team, but the mvp can't go to lebron with his 49 win team?


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

jibikao said:


> So without a Kobe caliber player, Nash still helped the Suns win 53 games and are BETTER than both Lebron and Kobe's team. Next excuse please.


I wasn't making an excuse. I find it interesting that Nash's own damn teammate thinks Kobe is the best player. Hmmm...


----------



## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

What's with the hatefest? 

When someone who believes Nash tries to make a point, he gets drowned out by angry Kobe-Bron-Dirk fans. How can we have a level-minded discussion if we don't acknowledge someone else's points? We should start with that. And this goes out to everyone, even the Nash fans, since all that's been happening is pointless arguing. 

I think it was Charles Barkley who said: "You get two rich guys arguing over who's conservative and who's liberal - and you go, now, they just argued for an hour, and nothing got solved."

Please, be constructive.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

rocketeer said:


> the lakers are a completely different team when kobe isn't there. same with the cavs and lebron.
> 
> and the suns have 53 wins. the cavs have 49. both have likely wins if lebron and nash play in their last games. let's just assume the cavs lose anyway. the mvp should go to nash with his 54 win team, but the mvp can't go to lebron with his 49 win team?


I haven't seen the Lakers without Kobe. Last year they weren't bad. Given the fact they played suckier teams. But lets not start speculating on how good the Lakers are without Kobe. 
Because no one knows. Probable not good, but maybe more ballmovement would help them?

And the media has an itch for players who don't win 50 games. Not me, but the media.


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> Here here!
> 
> I can't believe people voted for Chauncey Billups. Have they not been watching Laker/Cav/Suns/Mav games?


Exactly. Can't believe he had more votes than Kobe.
MVP voting = :nonono: (tsk, tsk)


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

jibikao said:


> Skill wise, yeah Lebron + Kobe > Nash
> 
> Basketball IQ wise, Nash owns them.


You have basketball IQ confused with court vision...If Nash has such great basketball IQ, why can't he play defense?


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

ClayVTrainum said:


> I wasn't making an excuse. I find it interesting that Nash's own damn teammate thinks Kobe is the best player. Hmmm...


MVP - Most Valuable Player

BP - Best Player



mmmmmmmmm.......


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Former Mavericks guard, and current Mavericks telecast commentator, Derek Harper, picked Nash to be the MVP this year over Dirk.

For all the NBA kids, Derek Harper is black (shocker). Paul Coro of the AZ Republic voted for Lebron. Paul Coro is white.(shocker!!)

STFU now please.

And doh, your quote is just stupid. No context or anything. I could give you quotes from Vlade Divac, Peja and some other Kings after a Suns-Kings game saying Amare Stoudemire in his rookie year is the best athlete they played against since Michael Jordan.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Nash is more skilled than Bron and Kobe... he also is more athletic. He plays better defense... he is the best player to ever play the game. Better than Jordan.


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

Man... I want Kobe to win... but just one thing for Suns fans.... if Nash does win... Suns better start packing cuz Kobe gonna be PISSED!!


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

jibikao said:


> Skill wise, yeah Lebron + Kobe > Nash
> 
> Basketball IQ wise, Nash owns them. Oh god, this is good. This is just getting so much fun to read so many hate posts. Quite frankly, I don't really care if Nash wins this season or not but I just enjoy reading the hate posts. Some of them are quite funny.


IQ? LOL, Steve Nash is just a great player pushing this system, D'Antoni's offense is not even that complicated , you run you push and pass to the open man..repeat. The main difference and the other reason its successful is that most of Phoenix's players are willing to play their role. Its not as complicated as the triangle where it takes a lot of time to complete. Why do you think people like Boris Diaw who is playing out of position excells in this offense? Same thing with any other player that plays for Phoenix like Eddie House and Barbosa.

This system is not rocket science.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

ClayVTrainum said:


> You have basketball IQ confused with court vision...If Nash has such great basketball IQ, why can't he play defense?


Cause according to statistics he can play defense. Besides what has basketball IQ to do with defense, ridiculous ?

Ron Artest = Basketball Genius.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

The MAMBA said:


> Nash is more skilled than Bron and Kobe... he also is more athletic. He plays better defense... he is the best player to ever play the game. Better than Jordan.


Dude, remember that one time even when Nash was sitting out *he made his teammates better*? It was magic. MVP.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Nash is more skilled than Bron and Kobe... he also is more athletic. He plays better defense... he is the best player to ever play the game. Better than Jordan.



Want to discuss the thread at hand? Or do you want to play the not-so-funny sarcasitic card?


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Amareca said:


> Cause according to statistics he can play defense. Besides what has basketball IQ to do with defense, ridiculous ?
> 
> *Ron Artest = Basketball Genius.*


Ron Artest is a Basketball Genius off the court that's another matter...


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Steez said:


> Man... I want Kobe to win... but just one thing for Suns fans.... if Nash does win... Suns better start packing cuz Kobe gonna be PISSED!!


Why do they need to pack? They have the GOAT on their team, and the undisputed MVP. They will a ring. Maybe even 3 straight... they could break 11. Just watch. The MVP will carry them to the NBA Finals.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> IQ? LOL, Steve Nash is just a great player pushing this system, D'Antoni's offense is not even that complicated , you run you push and pass to the open man..repeat. Its not as complicated as the triangle where it takes a lot of time to complete. Why do you think people like Boris Diaw who is playing out of position excells in this offense? Same thing with any other player that plays for Phoenix like Eddie House and Barbosa.
> 
> This system is not rocket science.


Why don't the Lakers play it then? Seems to be clearly better than the triangle.

Stop the stupid arguments please it is getting too ridiculous now.

Maybe Boris Diaw is simply a terrific young player? Eddie House was a great player out of college. Barbosa has always been an amazing talent and matured. And Steve Nash is helping them. If anything Steve Nash IS the system.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

LW said:


> Dude, remember that one time even when Nash was sitting out *he made his teammates better*? It was magic. MVP.


I remember that. He makes Raja Bell a good defender. His little passes to obvious open areas of the floor are JUST BRILLAINT!!!. He even makes the announcers better.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Why do they need to pack? They have the GOAT on their team, and the undisputed MVP. They will a ring. Maybe even 3 straight... they could break 11. Just watch. The MVP will carry them to the NBA Finals.


Well I know Kobe couldn't do this wether he wins MVP or not.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

How many two time MVP's have never GONE to the finals? How many haven't won it?


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

SunsFan57 said:


> Want to discuss the thread at hand? Or do you want to play the not-so-funny sarcasitic card?


:rofl: Is it time to replace Chuck Norris with Steve Nash?


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca said:


> Well I know Kobe couldn't do this wether he wins MVP or not.


We're not talking about Kobe. Kobe? We just talkin bout the MVP, homie. Nash gonna take the Suns and win a ring.


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

Amareca said:


> Why don't the Lakers play it then? Seems to be clearly better than the triangle.


The triangle has NINE ****ING TITLES!


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> I remember that. He makes Brois Diaw a good defender. His little passes to obvious open areas of the floor are JUST BRILLAINT!!!. He even makes the announcers better.


"To obvious open areas of the floor"





















BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

*Steve Nash = 2006 MVP*


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Steve Nash doesn't sleep he waits


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Lets not get carried away. Dirk is one 1st place vote behind Nash.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

ClayVTrainum said:


> The triangle has NINE ****ING TITLES!


Yeah MJ and Shaq whatever...Put MJ or Shaq in their primes on this Phoenix team and this system and tell me they won't be heavy favorites to win it every season.


----------



## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

The MAMBA said:


> I remember that. He makes Brois Diaw a good defender. His little passes to obvious open areas of the floor are JUST BRILLAINT!!!. He even makes the announcers better.


He even makes himself better. Now, how many players can make a reigning MVP better? :clown:


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Steve Nash eats transformer toys in vehicle mode and poos them out transformed into a robot. 

That's another reason why he is the best and most valuable player in the NBA!!!!!!


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Aurelino said:


> He even makes himself better. Now, how many players can make a reigning MVP better? :clown:


:rofl:


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> How many two time MVP's have never GONE to the finals? How many haven't won it?


Karl Malone just to name one.

How many Finals has Kobe played without getting carried by a prime Shaq? Oh no wait it's the first time he makes the playoffs without the most dominant big man in the league.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca said:


> Karl Malone just to name one.
> 
> How many Finals has Kobe played without getting carried by a prime Shaq? Oh no wait it's the first time he makes the playoffs without the most dominant big man in the league.


He's only had two seasons to try it, cupcake.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> Steve Nash doesn't sleep he waits


Steve Nash passes because it gives defenders a chance to defend mortal humans.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

The MAMBA said:


> He's only had two seasons to try it, cupcake.


Actually Kobe carried the team to the semis in 2003 and the finals in 2004. Shaq had already started his decline. Everyone in LA knew it, but the media was still on the Shaqwagon.

So Kobe as carried the team to the playoffs in the 3 out of 4 years. Not bad actually.


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

Personally, nothing against Nash, but Marion is the MVP for the suns.

Put Marion in the Lakers system, Lakers going far... remember when Odom starting playing up to par.... Lakers started winning... Marions stats before Nash and after Nash are identical, so dont tell me its because of Nash.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Amareca said:


> Karl Malone just to name one.
> 
> How many Finals has Kobe played without getting carried by a prime Shaq? Oh no wait it's the first time he makes the playoffs without the most dominant big man in the league.


Karl made it to the finals... Nash not so much... I didn't even mention Kobe though he's not the two time MVP!


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

The MAMBA said:
 

> He's only had two seasons to try it, cupcake.


Well Steve Nash had 2 seasons to try it with a lottery team , 60+ games, 50+ with Amare out.

And lets not forget the Lakers fans actually thought they would win the Pacific with Amare out.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

gian said:


> When someone who believes Nash tries to make a point, he gets drowned out by angry Kobe-Bron-Dirk fans. How can we have a level-minded discussion if we don't acknowledge someone else's points? We should start with that. And this goes out to everyone, even the Nash fans, since all that's been happening is pointless arguing.


It's a little difficult when the only thing going for Nash is intangible things. 

*Stats?* Nash isn't top ten, and only Iverson is a worse MVP statistically in the past 20 years. 

*Defense?* Steve Nash is the worst defender of any MVP of all-time. 

*Impact?* This is highly subjective, and Nash supporters will point out how the Suns need Nash so much, but even the +/- numbers show that the Lakers rely more on Kobe, and the Cavs rely more on LeBron, than the Suns do on Nash. 

He does have the story though. That's what I'm gathering as the only legitimate argument in his favor. The Suns lost Amare Stoudemire and everyone involved was devestated, there was no hope, all hope was lost, but out came the almighty Stevey to save the day and keep the village alive while the chief is out fighting a viscious battle with the same knife that got the best of several legendary figures that go by the name of Anfernee and Antonio, to name a couple.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Amareca said:


> Why don't the Lakers play it then? Seems to be clearly better than the triangle..


Uhhhmm...maybe because Phil won 9 rings with it and D'Antoni has 0? [email protected] you for even asking this question.



Amareca said:


> Maybe Boris Diaw is simply a terrific young player? Eddie House was a great player out of college. Barbosa has always been an amazing talent and matured.


If that is the case then it pretty much contradicts the fact that Nash is not the MVP because he has been playing with all these great players...no?


Amareca said:


> Nash IS the system
> ..


If Nash is the system, then the Suns wont obviously win a championship because as the old and strong saying goes "Defense wins Championships"...and we all know Nash has none of it.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

This thread is stupid and pointless.

Kobe fans are butt hurt just like the girl from colorado.....

Walk it off Kobe lovers.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca said:


> Well Steve Nash had 2 seasons to try it with a lottery team , 60+ games, 50+ with Amare out.
> 
> And lets not forget the Lakers fans actually thought they would win the Pacific with Amare out.


Uhh, they did?

And Kobe was hurt last year.

Kobe led the Lakers in 2003 and pushed the CHAMPION Spurs to the limit. Kobe led the Lakers in 2004. He's been the leader for awhile.



But you're right. Steve Nash is the GOAT. He even makes people with career ending knee injuries score 20 points in at least one of the games that they played.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Carbo04 said:


> Anyway, Nash IS the MVP. See the Suns with, and without Nash and it's more than obvious. He turned the Suns around and everyone had career seasons last year. But this year he's been 100 times better. With no Amare and a bunch of former scrubs except Marion and still the #2 seed. Nash is the MVP for the second straight year, and he should be. Deal with it.


look at the players on the suns. who is doing anything different than normal? 

marion has always been good and has thrived even more playing inside with the uptempo system the suns now use. 

raja bell has shot over 40% from 3 two of the past three years. nothing new there.

tim thomas has shot over 40% from 3 multiple times. on the suns, all he has to do is shoot.

eddie house is shooting a worse % from 3 and the field.

james jones isn't doing anything he couldn't do in indiana.

kurt thomas has been no better(and really worse) than he has been in the past.

the guys that have really improved are barbosa and diaw. both are guys in their 3rd year so improvement should have been expected. diaw came from a horrible team to a good team that fit his game perfectly.

that's not saying nash isn't a great player right now and a top 4 mvp candidate, but he isn't doing anything really special with these "scrubs". they are just playing like they always have with a couple of exceptions with two young player, one coming from a horrible situation.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

SunsFan57 said:


> This thread is stupid and pointless.
> 
> Kobe fans are butt hurt just like the girl from colorado.....
> 
> Walk it off Kobe lovers.


It's not just Kobe lovers bubba...

I would've voted 1.Dirk 2.LeBron 3.Kobe.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Amareca said:


> "
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
> 
> *Steve Nash = 2006 MVP*


It would be so funny, making early celebrations only for Dirk to win it.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Don't question it. Steve Nash is better than any basketball player, EVER. LBJ won't be able to live up to that kind of legacy.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Jordan called. He wants Steve Nash's autograph.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> It's a little difficult when the only thing going for Nash is intangible things.
> 
> *Stats?* Nash isn't top ten, and only Iverson is a worse MVP statistically in the past 20 years.
> 
> ...


+/- LOOL
Please, lets hand MVP to Josh Davis.

Stats? That's purely objective. Nash has stats that have been done only 3 times in the history of the league shooting and leading the league in assists.

Also add to the fact that Nash only plays 35 minutes per game, most MVPs played 40+mpg.

How come Steve Nash ranks #7 in the league in efficiency points per minute? As a POINT GUARD. A statistics that heavily favors players who rebound a lot.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> I haven't seen the Lakers without Kobe. Last year they weren't bad. Given the fact they played suckier teams. But lets not start speculating on how good the Lakers are without Kobe.
> Because no one knows. Probable not good, but maybe more ballmovement would help them?
> 
> And the media has an itch for players who don't win 50 games. Not me, but the media.


they lost both games without kobe this season. that obviously isn't enough games to judge, but anyone who thinks the lakers without kobe have a shot at 30 wins is a moron.

and lebron is one win over the hawks away from 50 wins.


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> This thread is stupid and pointless.
> 
> *Kobe fans are butt hurt just like the girl from colorado.....*
> 
> Walk it off Kobe lovers.


Thats wrong man.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Don't question it. Steve Nash is better than any basketball player, EVER. LBJ won't be able to live up to that kind of legacy.



You're starting to sound like a real ratard with your stupid sarcastic posts.

Try to act a little mature.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

SunsFan57 said:


> You're starting to sound like a real ratarded with your stupid sarcastic posts.
> 
> Try to act a little mature.


Mature? It's fact.

Steve Nash > you.


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> It's a little difficult when the only thing going for Nash is intangible things.
> 
> *Stats?* Nash isn't top ten, and only *Iverson is a worse MVP statistically in the past 20 years.*
> 
> ...


You are disservicing Nash's MVP yr but don't pull AI down too. AI had a great yr in 2001 & he had all the great parts. 6th Man, DPOY & COY. I'm also a no, no for Nash winning 2 MVPs. I've been saying it for months now. Dirk fits all the criteria.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Steez said:


> Thats wrong man.



All the Kobe fans are being dumb and sarcastic. 

Try to act your age for crying out loud. 

It would be a pity to be less mature then a fifteen-year-old.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Mature? It's fact.
> 
> Steve Nash > you.


 :rotf:


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> All the Kobe fans are being dumb and sarcastic.
> 
> Try to act your age for crying out loud.
> 
> It would be a pity to be less mature then a fifteen-year-old.


I am a kobe fan and I am not acting dumb nor am I being sarcastic man... plus why is everyone going crazy? is this even a reliable source?


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> You're starting to sound like a real ratarded with your stupid sarcastic posts.
> 
> Try to act a little mature.


Agreed. Maybe all this Nash mania hypnotized him. :biggrin:


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

SunsFan57 said:


> All the Kobe fans are being dumb and sarcastic.
> 
> Try to act your age for crying out loud.
> 
> It would be a pity to be less mature then a fifteen-year-old.


How can you measure maturity when you don't even pay your own bills? I can act however I want for entertainment purposes on a BASKETBALL MESSAGEBOARD. You just worry about getting good grades on your report card, and make sure to make mommy and daddy proud.


Meanwhile, I'll vote Steve Nash to President.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

*


Amareca said:



Why don't the Lakers play it then? Seems to be clearly better than the triangle..

Click to expand...


Uhhhmm...maybe because Phil won 9 rings with it and D'Antoni has 0? [email protected] you for even asking this question.*


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Amareca said:


> +/- LOOL
> Please, lets hand MVP to Josh Davis.


You'd think with all this talk about how Shawn Marion and Boris Diaw are NBDL players without Nash, and how the Suns are a lottery team without Nash, that when he stepped off the floor, the Suns would show a much bigger drop.

But again, the Cavs and Lakers rely on LeBron and Kobe more than the Suns do on Nash. The "making players better" argument is clearly exaggerated. 




Amareca said:


> How come Steve Nash ranks #7 in the league in efficiency points per minute? As a POINT GUARD. A statistics that heavily favors players who rebound a lot.


In a system that doesn't weight rebounds heavily, and has assigned values for each stat, Nash is 13th. And PER even accounts for minutes. 

I'm guessing that since it doesn't favor Nash though, that it's a ridiculous system that holds no merit. When Amare Stoudemire is finishing top 5 in PER (like last year), it means the world and it's the end-all. 

BigAmare comin' out the cracks again! :greatjob:


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

I usually hate Bill Simmons columns about Kobe, but it bears mentioning...



> But that raises a bigger question: What makes for an NBA MVP?
> 
> I concentrate on three questions:
> 
> ...


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Also note, it's funny how Kobe fans try to pull Dirk and Lebron fans on their anti-Nash bandwagon. Pure comedy.

Anyone who thinks Kobe lead the team to where it was while Shaq was still there has to be out of their mind. Do we have to look at Shaq's team after he left and his former team? Yeah whatever even declined in their championship seasons Shaq was by far the most dominant player in the league.

_raja bell has shot over 40% from 3 two of the past three years. nothing new there.

tim thomas has shot over 40% from 3 multiple times. on the suns, all he has to do is shoot.

eddie house is shooting a worse % from 3 and the field.

james jones isn't doing anything he couldn't do in indiana.

kurt thomas has been no better(and really worse) than he has been in the past._

Look at how many Suns are averaging career high in points, how many of them are right up there at the top in adjusted FG%, look at the total 3pters Bell made this season alone compared to his career, James Jones is doing much more than what he has done with Indiana, Eddie House is playing amazing off the bench as instant offense.
Kurt Thomas has been excellent when playing. Tim Thomas is doing much more than just shooting.

Players WANT to come to Phoenix to revive their careers. Wally Sczerbiak specifically said that. They know Steve Nash will help them getting the best out of themselves.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Let's forget this years MVP. Any predictions for next year?

My predictions for 2006-07:
Kobe gets 45ppg
LeBron averages 30/10/10
Dirk leads team to 75 win record
Steve Nash gets third MVP in a row because Suns tank a few games at the end of the season as Steve fakes an injury.

Sound about right?


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Amareca said:


> Why don't the Lakers play it then? Seems to be clearly better than the triangle..


Uhhhmm...maybe because Phil won 9 rings with it and D'Antoni has 0? [email protected] you for even asking this question.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

this thread is gonna get locked real soon.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

LW said:


> Let's forget this years MVP. Any predictions for next year?
> 
> My predictions for 2006-07:
> Kobe gets 45ppg
> ...


Holy ISH!!!!!


Negrodamaus.... is that you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :banana:


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

DuMa said:


> this thread is gonna get locked real soon.


maybe you should shut your mouth..stick to the topic and dont bait the moderators.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> maybe you should shut your mouth..stick to the topic and dont bait moderators.



........Me?


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> ........Me?


no not you man..fixed.


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

DuMa said:


> this thread is gonna get locked real soon.


I feel its a good thread if everyone keeps it straight... if it does stay straight, it shouldnt be locked.... but yea DuMa... its gonna happen soon, I agree


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

LW said:


> Let's forget this years MVP. Any predictions for next year?
> 
> My predictions for 2006-07:
> Kobe gets 45ppg
> ...


 :rotf:


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)




----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca said:


>


What a god.

And he is so handsome. With his huge potmarks on his jaw bone, and greasy hair!!! 

2 MVP's. Next is GQ Sexiest Man of the Year!!!!!!!!


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> maybe you should shut your mouth..stick to the topic and dont bait the moderators.


Look @ you. You're a banned member. How'd you get allowed back in? :biggrin:


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> What a god.
> 
> And he is so handsome. With his huge potmarks on his jaw bone, and greasy hair!!!
> 
> 2 MVP's. *Next is GQ Sexiest Man of the Year!!!!!!!!*



*Crosses fingers*


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> maybe you should shut your mouth..stick to the topic and dont bait the moderators.


you're a moron. you bait everybody. you're probably the worst kobe homer i've yet to seen. you post with no validity and have to agree to every other kobe homer's argument to make yourself look smart.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> What a god.
> 
> And he is so handsome. With his huge potmarks on his jaw bone, and greasy hair!!!
> 
> 2 MVP's. Next is GQ Sexiest Man of the Year!!!!!!!!


OMG MAN you gotta stop it im peein myself here LMAO


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I, for one, can't wait to see the MVP in the finals. He is a winner's winner.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

DuMa said:


> you're a moron. you bait everybody. you're probably the worst kobe homer i've yet to seen. you post with no validity and have to agree to every other kobe homer's argument to make yourself look smart.


Wait didnt i owned you last night? stop being so sensitive...DUMA!!


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Why didn't Elton get atleast one first place vote?

Chauncey gets 6, Kobe gets 3 and Elton none? Wow......


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

lol stop baiting each other.

We're all here to congratulate Steve Nash's insurmountable lead with more than 1/3 of the voters accounted for.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> What a god.
> 
> And he is so handsome. With his huge potmarks on his jaw bone, and greasy hair!!!
> 
> 2 MVP's. Next is GQ Sexiest Man of the Year!!!!!!!!


Yup, what's next for Kobe? Maybe he will try the other gender this offseason in Colorado?


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> Why didn't Elton get atleast one first place vote?
> 
> Chauncey gets 6, Kobe gets 3 and Elton none? Wow......


Thats what im saying...its just not fair. 25 10 2bpg and 52% fg LAC in the playoffs? ..just wow.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> It's a little difficult when the only thing going for Nash is intangible things.
> 
> *Stats?* Nash isn't top ten, and only Iverson is a worse MVP statistically in the past 20 years.
> 
> ...


You MUST be dreaming then... how is 53W intangible? 

Your story is great and that's what the media is looking for. Too bad you can't vote.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

SunsFan57 said:


> Why didn't Elton get atleast one first place vote?
> 
> Chauncey gets 6, Kobe gets 3 and Elton none? Wow......



voting process isnt over yet. i bet he'll get more votes than kobe though


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> Why didn't Elton get atleast one first place vote?
> 
> Chauncey gets 6, Kobe gets 3 and Elton none? Wow......


Don't mind them. Those voters are crazy.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca said:


> Yup, what's next for Kobe? Maybe he will try the other gender this offseason in Colorado?


He already has. Don't you remember him raping Raja Bell last week?


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

DuMa said:


> you're a moron. you bait everybody. you're probably the worst kobe homer i've yet to seen. you post with no validity and have to agree to every other kobe homer's argument to make yourself look smart.



And you once dissed Kobe for bringing his team back from 18 down in the third quarter while scoring 81 points...To paraphrase the old parable, don't try to remove the speck from someone's eye until you remove the log from your own...


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> He already has. Don't you remember him raping Raja Bell last week?


In a double digit loss? Cause that's what Nash beat him by everytime this season.


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

The MAMBA said:


> He already has. Don't you remember him raping Raja Bell last week?


*ZING!*


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

The MAMBA said:


> He already has. Don't you remember him raping Raja Bell last week?


Ouch.

OUCH.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

ClayVTrainum said:


> *ZING!*


 X 2


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> He already has. Don't you remember him raping Raja Bell last week?


It just goes to show that Kobe gets away with rape again! He did it in the public!

Also, it was in Phoenix. Much warmer, and nice atmosphere.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

ClayVTrainum said:


> And you once dissed Kobe for bringing his team back from 18 down in the third quarter while scoring 81 points...To paraphrase the old parable, don't try to remove the speck from someone's eye until you remove the log from your own...


and i'll say it again. he was stat padding. thats a weak parable by the way


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Chauncey perhaps even more overrated than Nash? Last time I looked he had Rip, Prince & the Wallaces. 4 out of 5 All-Stars. I have yet to see the Pistons perform for an extensive period w/out the one called Mr. Big Shot. He might not even be the most important player on that team let alone MVP of the league.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca said:


> In a double digit loss? Cause that's what Nash beat him by everytime this season.


Yeah, which caused both Nash and Raja to be in such a state of fear...that they actually chose to hide on the bench fron the next game...as the Lakers gave a double digit *** pounding of the Suns. All while Nash and Raja didn't have the balls to even show up. The only person who had the balls to show, was the Suns MVP aka Shawn Marion.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

neoxsupreme said:


> Chauncey perhaps even more overrated than Nash? Last time I looked he had Rip, Prince & the Wallaces. 4 out of 5 All-Stars. I have yet to see the Pistons perform for an extensive period w/out the one called Mr. Big Shot. He might not even be the most important player on that team let alone MVP of the league.


b-b-b-b-billups is o-o-o-o-overated.

But not Steve Nash. Steve Nash eats players like Kobe for breakfast and ****s out players like LeBron before lunch.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Are the Cavs trying to get LeBron the MVP? He sat out against the Celtics and they won. 

Him sitting out isn't helping his chances. They won without him against the Knicks as well.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

neoxsupreme said:


> Chauncey perhaps even more overrated than Nash? .


I thought nobody here would even say it....


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

SunsFan57 said:


> Are the Cavs trying to get LeBron the MVP? He sat out against the Celtics and they won.
> 
> Him sitting out isn't helping his chances. They won without him against the Knicks as well.


No, he is sitting because he actually hurt himself not that long ago.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

jibikao said:


> You MUST be dreaming then... how is 53W intangible?


Pistons have 64 wins. 

Billups is putting up better numbers than Nash. Better defender. Outplayed Nash both times head to head (pretty badly). Again, plus minus shows that the Pistons rely on Billups more than the Suns do on Nash. 

See, that's what you call a tangible argument. Stats, defense, impact and wins if you'd like. 

But Nash has long hair, makes his teammates better and is from Canada. Yay! MVP!


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Yeah, which caused both Nash and Raja to be in such a state of fear...that they actually chose to hide on the bench fron the next game...as the Lakers gave a double digit *** pounding of the Suns. All while Nash and Raja didn't have the balls to even show up. The only person who had the balls to show, was the Suns MVP aka Shawn Marion.


LOL Cause we would rather play the Fakers than the Kings in the first round. It would hurt us if we beat you that game.
Oh yeah and Nash also didn't play against the Warriors the game before. I bet he was scared of the Lakers cause we beat them by double figures everyime Nash plays.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

SunsFan57 said:


> Are the Cavs trying to get LeBron the MVP? He sat out against the Celtics and they won.
> 
> Him sitting out isn't helping his chances. They won without him against the Knicks as well.


PP didn't play... and "The Knicks" 

Larry Hughes missed half the season and was injured the first part of it is finally coming to form...


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> Why didn't Elton get atleast one first place vote?
> 
> Chauncey gets 6, Kobe gets 3 and Elton none? Wow......


because brand doesn't deserve a single first place vote?

why give brand a first place vote when he isn't even a top 4 candidate? he isn't a better candidate than lebron, kobe, nash, or dirk so why vote for him over all 4?


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Amareca said:


> LOL Cause we would rather play the Fakers than the Kings in the first round. It would hurt us if we beat you that game.
> Oh yeah and Nash also didn't play against the Warriors the game before. I bet he was scared of the Lakers cause we beat them by double figures everyime Nash plays.


He's a chump. He never shows up against good players. Billups dominated him... Jason Kidd completely shut him out... His hair is a metaphor for his genetalia.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

loooollolololooololol


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Pistons have 64 wins.
> 
> Billups is putting up better numbers than Nash. Better defender. Outplayed Nash both times head to head (pretty badly). Again, plus minus shows that the Pistons rely on Billups more than the Suns do on Nash.
> 
> ...


You are a moron, seriously now , you are nothing more than a stupid hater.

Better numbers?

Nash 19ppg 10.5apg 4.2rpg 51%FG 35mpg
Billups 18.6ppg 8.7apg 3.1rpg 41%FG 36mpg

Thanks for the laugh.

Steve Nash = MVP


----------



## essaywhuman (Aug 10, 2005)

LW said:


> b-b-b-b-billups is o-o-o-o-overated.
> 
> But not Steve Nash. Steve Nash eats players like Kobe for breakfast and ****s out players like LeBron before lunch.


LW dropping some knowledge.

Steve Nash is the greatest player alive, despite him (to quote Bill Walton) not being a winner in the genetic lottery. :laugh:


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> He's a chump. He never shows up against good players. Billups dominated him... Jason Kidd completely shut him out... His hair is a metaphor for his genetalia.



Wow, you go from loving Nash to hating him.

Another John Kerry perhaps?


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

The MAMBA said:


> He's a chump. He never shows up against good players. Billups dominated him... Jason Kidd completely shut him out... His hair is a metaphor for his genetalia.


Dude WTF? Don't disrespect your god like that.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

SunsFan57 said:


> Wow, you go from loving Nash to hating him.
> 
> Another John Kerry perhaps?


No, I don't love Nash. I am enamoured with Nash. I am building a Nash shrine as we speak.


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> He's a chump. He never shows up against good players. Billups dominated him... Jason Kidd completely shut him out... *His hair is a metaphor for his genetalia.*


LOL! :laugh: Everyone is such a comedian on this board.


----------



## essaywhuman (Aug 10, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> He's a chump. He never shows up against good players. Billups dominated him... Jason Kidd completely shut him out... *His hair is a metaphor for his genetalia.*


 :eek8: :rofl:


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> No, I don't love Nash. I am enamoured with Nash. I am building a Nash shrine as we speak.



Ok, thats more like it! Use spahgetti for his hair. Take lots of pictures as well!


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Wow this thread is getting longer than a Nets' game thread fast.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Amareca said:


> Steve Nash = MVP


Got that right. Can't wait to see him in the finals. A back to back MVP alongside a bonafide all-star and another top 50 player, with some great shooters? With the coach of the year? That's like, wow. 

Man. This team is going to streamroll through the playoffs behind the MVP. If they don't, something went really wrong.


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

Amareca said:


> You are a moron, seriously now , you are nothing more than a stupid hater.
> 
> Better numbers?
> 
> ...


Whoa whoa whoa. But Chauncey has 64 wins, aren't those thew only stats that matter?

Because if you really want to get in a stat war, LeBron and Kobe will win EVERY TIME.


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Got that right. Can't wait to see him in the finals. A back to back MVP alongside a bonafide all-star and another top 50 player, with some great shooters? With the coach of the year? That's like, wow.
> 
> Man. This team is going to streamroll through the playoffs behind the MVP. If they don't, something went really wrong.


Are you mad that Brand didn't get many votes?


----------



## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

As a Kobe fan, the only thing that bothers me about that list is the fact that Billups is ahead of Kobe. The other 3 I don't mind so much, but Chauncey in 4th?


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

This thread has gotten pretty ridiculous. There's one legitimately non-retarded post per page.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

ClayVTrainum said:


> Whoa whoa whoa. But Chauncey has 64 wins, aren't those thew only stats that matter?
> 
> Because if you really want to get in a stat war, LeBron and Kobe will win EVERY TIME.


Zing! 

(btw, Billups has a better player efficiency rating than Nash)


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> This thread has gotten pretty ridiculous. There's one legitimately non-retarded post per page.


Socco,

Is your favorite word "legitimate"? Or did you just learn it, today? hehe

Either way, you know you're my boy...


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Socco,
> 
> Is your favorite word "legitimate"? Or did you just learn it, today? hehe
> 
> Either way, you know you're my boy...


It's a legitimately legitimate word. What do you expect out of me man!


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Zing!
> 
> (btw, *Billups has a better player efficiency rating than Nash*)


He does & his better assist-to-turnover ratio has a lot to do w/ that. Chauncey is also the superior defender & clutch player.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

neoxsupreme said:


> Are you mad that Brand didn't get many votes?


No, not really. Brand is a jack of all trades player who can do everything well but nothing at a great level. That pretty much sums up his MVP argument. Not on the best team, but on a good team. Not the best stats, but top 5. Not to mention, Brand is new on the MVP scene. You kind of have to make your name in the MVP race before you win it, especially when you're such a quiet contributor like Brand, who has little to no flash in his game. 

Plus this whole "Sam Cassell is the MVP of the Clippers" phenomenon took away from the year Brand had, unfortunetly. 

I'll be a bit dissappointed in him not making the first team though, but again, I expect that Dirk and LeBron will hold the two forward spots. 2nd team though, if he doesn't make that, I'm cracking heads open.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

if a player like Nash wins twice, it will show how retarded and meaningless this award has become

Lebron and Kobe. Much better players both leading their teams this year. I cant beleive 31, 7, and 7 on 49% shooting with 50 wins is not going to win mvp. Highest on court off court numbers as well. His team does better with him and worse without him than Nash. Its ridiculous


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:
 

> No, not really. Brand is a jack of all trades player who can do everything well but nothing at a great level. That pretty much sums up his MVP argument. Not on the best team, but on a good team. Not the best stats, but top 5. Not to mention, Brand is new on the MVP scene. You kind of have to make your name in the MVP race before you win it, especially when you're such a quiet contributor like Brand, who has little to no flash in his game.
> 
> Plus this whole "Sam Cassell is the MVP of the Clippers" phenomenon took away from the year Brand had, unfortunetly.
> 
> I'll be a bit dissappointed in him not making the first team though, but again, I expect that Dirk and LeBron will hold the two forward spots. 2nd team though, if he doesn't make that, I'm cracking heads open.


I put him on my 1st team. He & Dirk have been the best big men this season. They sould put Dirk @ the center spot even though he doesn't really play center but he is 7'0" & put Brand @ the power forward spot b/c no center has performed that great this yr.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> It's a legitimately legitimate word. What do you expect out of me man!


Hehe, touche. Well fellas, I'm out like Amare's knee. Talk to yall tommorow about the basketball god, known simply as:

Nash


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Hehe, touche. Well fellas, I'm out like Amare's knee. Talk to yall tommorow about the basketball god, known simply as:
> 
> Nash


Alright. Peace. Talk to ya tomorrow @ the Nash fellowship. Don't forget to bring your sermon k?


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

neoxsupreme said:


> Alright. Peace. Talk to ya tomorrow @ the Nash fellowship. Don't forget to bring your sermon k?


Alright, hehe.

But in all honesty..I like Nash. He is one damn fine ball player. But he shouldn't be the MVP, because he doesn't deserve it. I just want to clarify that, to all people who actually think I don't like Nash.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Hehe, touche. Well fellas,* I'm out like Amare's knee*. Talk to yall tommorow about the basketball god, known simply as:
> 
> Nash


 :laugh: 

Have a nice Kobe dream...... :biggrin:


----------



## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> You are the biggest hater on this board. STFU! What you do is hate. We actually have objective arguments. Anyone who says Nash is a better player than even Dirk is a liar... hell just ask Nash.



All I do is hate? Why? Because I don't like your favorite player? The people defending Nash have objective arguments too. Do I want Nash to win? Hell yeah. Would I say Nash got robbed, or Kobe/Dirk didn't deserve it if they were to win? No. 

Yea, you've been owned. Get back to LeBron's place, I hear he's been looking for you. He hasn't had his daily blowjob from you today.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

DuMa said:


> this thread is gonna get locked real soon.


Not by me. I'm banking on a couple posters taking deep breaths, counting to 10 and following the rules.


----------



## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Homers suck.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

As long as it ain't Billups.


----------



## nguyen_milan (Jun 28, 2005)

wow this board needs a thread like this once a week, keep up the good work LOL


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

nguyen_milan said:


> wow this board needs a thread like this once a week, keep up the good work LOL


I'll take the credit as the OP  

2 Parts Kobe, 1 Part LeBron, 1 Part Nash, 4 Parts MVP = Explosion.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I just keep wondering, if Nash is so good, why didn't the Suns win the title last season? I know Joe got hurt but shouldn't Nash have just made his replacement 'a better player'. The MVP and 2 All NBA types should be enough to at least make the finals...shouldn't it? All is not lost though, like Sir Patchwork said they should easily make the WCF this year. No excuses with the draw they have.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Just to keep you all updated on the MVP battle-scene.

BJ Armstrong laid the smack-down today on Nash. Basically said reporters shouldn't even be voting for MVP because they don't know what makes an MVP. Said Nash doesn't belong with the Birds and Magics. Also gave props to Mark Jackson for being the first man to have the balls to say Kobe would be better than Michael Jordan. BJ Armstrong noted that people are beginning to change their tune about the Kobe vs. Jordan comparison - that it is now certainly valid. (BJ Armstrong played with Jordan during the Bulls dynasty) I think this was on Fast Break.

Mark Jackson today on ESPN Radio talked about how Scottie agreed Kobe should be MVP. Said that Pippen agreed Kobe would be better than Jordan, but said it off air and would not comment about it on TV (for obvious reasons). Jackson said there have been many people coming around on the Kobe vs. Jordan comparisons. Said Kobe and Lebron are 1 and 2 for MVP in his mind. (Mark Jackson is the 2nd all-time assist leader and played against Jordan in his prime).

EDIT: Hollinger apparently is still supporting Wade. Still thinks he is the best 2-guard in the league, even though his play has been disappointing. Listed LeBron and Nash as other MVP candidates. I think Kobe was fourth on his list, not sure.

No one really giving Dirk/Nash any real love from what I hear, even though the national media (reporters) have them at 1 and 2 in the preliminary surveys of over 1/3 of the actual MVP voters.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> I just keep wondering, if Nash is so good, why didn't the Suns win the title last season? I know Joe got hurt but shouldn't Nash have just made his replacement 'a better player'. The MVP and 2 All NBA types should be enough to at least make the finals...shouldn't it? All is not lost though, like Sir Patchwork said they should easily make the WCF this year. No excuses with the draw they have.


Yeah exactly. I just imagine Pau Gasol or Elton Brand, who is comparable to Amare Stoudemire (last year of course) in terms of caliber, and let's say Richard Jefferson compares with Shawn Marion at the small forward. I can only imagine a team with Kobe, Gasol and Jefferson. 

So something just doesn't add up.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Sportswriters are idiots. Plain and simple.


----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)




----------



## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

GoDWade, what the **** are you doing!?


----------



## -BasketBallBoy- (Jan 22, 2006)

John Hollinger is an idiot. When Wade went to #1 on his PER, he makes an article saying Wade is the MVP! Now when Kobe, who was on top for much of the season, returns as #1 he says he will give him a 4th place vote.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Go Dwade is inviting the ban stick.


----------



## Jethro (Feb 13, 2006)

LegoHat said:


> GoDWade, what the **** are you doing!?


He's just expressing his true love on Dwyane Wade.

Not saying its a bad thing, though.


----------



## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

Jethro said:


> He's just expressing his true love on Dwyane Wade.
> 
> Not saying its a bad thing, though.


Having a huge man-crush on Wade is one thing, but posting 29(!) consecutive pictures of him and his frickin' shoes is just plain annoying...


----------



## Chaos (Feb 25, 2005)

This thread is hilarious. 7 pages on the results of maybe *1/3* of the voting. Imagine the outrage when the final vote comes in.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

My Final say Is that it was a bit off that Nash got the MVP award last year, this year its harder for anyone to dispute why he's the MVP especially playing without their second best option, and other players having cereer years with him.

Although we all know the real definition of MVP these days, its kinda hard to accept the fact that.

Nash may have 2 MVP's


while...

Jason Kidd, John Stockton, Shaquille O'neal, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor have 1 MVP combined.


----------



## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

wow, so nash will get it for sure eh? 17 2nd place votes...that seals it.

What the F do Kobe and Bron have to do to get a MVP?

Kobe especially, since he's a 10 yr veteran. It's ridiculous to think he has none, when Nash has 2.
Lebron will win at least one before his career is over, beyond the shadow of a doubt. 

But as for Kobe...even I don't really like him as a person. Take this with a grain of salt, as I do not know him personnally. NOBODY can judge another person without truly knowing them. I respect his game and acknowlegde the incredible talent he has. He deserves the MVP. Lebron is my favorite player, but IMO Kobe deserves it slightly more. 

For what it's worth, I don't give a F about the 81 pt game. 63 in 3 was more impressive IMO. But this aside, it's the other things he has done throughout the season, and the passion he has shown. These little things that seem pale in comparison to the 81 pt game far outweigh it IMO. 

Him and Lebron are by FAR the two best players in the game, and we should be lucky to have them both in the playoffs. It goes without saying that they should go 1 and 2 in the MVP voting (take your pick).


----------



## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Jason Kidd, John Stockton, Shaquille O'neal, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor have 1 MVP combined.


West has NONE?!!! :frenchy:


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Chaos said:


> This thread is hilarious. 7 pages on the results of maybe *1/3* of the voting. Imagine the outrage when the final vote comes in.


I've seen similar articles the past 3 seasons and they all had the eventual winner in the lead.


----------



## iverson101 (Mar 4, 2006)

hendrix2430 said:


> NOBODY can judge another person without truly knowing them.


Um. Yes, you can.


----------



## Intense Enigma (Oct 22, 2005)

LegoHat said:


> GoDWade, what the **** are you doing!?



That has to be the biggest photographic meltdown i had ever seen in my life.........my goodness


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

I hope either Kobe, James, or Dirk gets.


----------



## ninjarr (Jan 20, 2006)

I think it's ridiculously ironic that those championing the MVP award as a "best player" award are the same that moan that Steve Nash has more MVPs than guys like Elgin Baylor, John Stockton, and Kobe. If we gave the MVP to the best player in the league, no one would have MVPs but Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Jordan, and Shaq.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

socco said:


> I've seen similar articles the past 3 seasons and they all had the eventual winner in the lead.


Yeah, it's a pretty good indication. 1/3 is a pretty good chunk. That said, this is supposedly the closest MVP race in a long time, so I guess it could change.


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

ninjarr said:


> I think it's ridiculously ironic that those championing the MVP award as a "best player" award are the same that moan that Steve Nash has more MVPs than guys like Elgin Baylor, John Stockton, and Kobe. If we gave the MVP to the best player in the league, no one would have MVPs but Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Jordan, and Shaq.


That's because people are ignoring what the value of "valuable" is, to this award.

Your front door's lock is probably one of the cheapest things in your house, but I would say it is one of the most valuable.

Steve Nash's contributions are more than his stats. Besides the team leadership on and off the court, he sets a good example for his teammates. The Suns are one of the least selfish teams in the league because of this. He also makes it easy for his coach. I mean, no one on the team can argue for his time and shots, when the team's unquestioned leader never argues for his.

Nash is a good example not only for young players, but young people, period, who are being blinded by the "me, me, me" MEntality permeating the NBA nowadays.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

carrrnuttt said:


> That's because people are ignoring what the value of "valuable" is, to this award.
> 
> Your front door's lock is probably one of the cheapest things in your house, but I would say it is one of the most valuable.
> 
> ...


You put it well.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Strange thread. Was in a strange mood last night.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Statistically speaking, a random sample of 1/3 of the voters will basically determine the MVP given that Nash has that much of a lead. The only way someone like LeBron or Kobe could come from behind in a situation like this is if every single person in the remaining 2/3 decides to bandwagon on one of them after the last day of the regular season. It's either that or the 1/3 who were surveyed must rescind their votes. I don't see either of these happened.

I'd say there is about a 80% chance that this random sample of 1/3 represents more or less the outcome of the voting, the other 20% includes Dirk coming from behind and stealing it for some reason.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

The MVP award is not the awarded to the best player in the league but the one most valuable to his team.

I see nothing wrong with Nash winning the award because he is arguably as important to his team or even more so than players who are generally considered _better_ than him.

People forget that Wilt when he went for 50 and MJ when he went for 37 didn't win the MVP. 

Nash is a great player. People who vote him for MVP are not saying he is the best player in the NBA. They are saying he is the most valuable for his team.

Maybe the NBA should start handing out a Most Outstanding Player award given to the player having the best season or is generally recognized as the best performer that season.

Plus we don't even know if Nash won it yet it is only 1/3 of the field. Who knows how many Canadian voters were in the 1/3 field polled.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Gilgamesh said:


> The MVP award is not the awarded to the best player in the league but the one most valuable to his team.


No, it's not. And this year's selection is seeming to prove that.



> I see nothing wrong with Nash winning the award because he is arguably as important to his team or even more so than players who are generally considered _better_ than him.


I don't agree. The Suns, without Nash, would still be a playoff team, IMHO.



> People forget that Wilt when he went for 50 and MJ when he went for 37 didn't win the MVP.


Aplles. Oranges. When Wilt had that season, there was noone better or more valuable than him in the league. When Jordan scored 37 there was.



> Nash is a great player. People who vote him for MVP are not saying he is the best player in the NBA. They are saying he is the most valuable for his team.


Yes, they are. 



> Maybe the NBA should start handing out a Most Outstanding Player award given to the player having the best season or is generally recognized as the best performer that season.


That is the MVP award.



> Plus we don't even know if Nash won it yet it is only 1/3 of the field. Who knows how many Canadian voters were in the 1/3 field polled.


True.


----------



## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

I think Kobe and Lebron should be co MVP's.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Gilgamesh said:


> Who knows how many Canadian voters were in the 1/3 field polled.


:rofl: :rofl: Good point.

Btw, you mentioned Wilt when he averaged huge numbers. That season is usually used as some sort of precedence to deny the best player in the league his due. 

Well fact is, Wilt wasn't seen as the best player in the league during that particular year (I believe Russell won it). I think the frame of mind during those days was that Russell > Wilt on defense and Russell's role on the Celtics was more important to the success of their dynasty. Points back then wasn't a big deal (scoring was high I think and 50ppg is not as crazy as it seems in context).

The question is "Did Oscar win the award when he averaged a triple double?" That certainly would make precedence for LeBron winning the award averaging 31/7/7. I don't know the answer and I'm too lazy to check it up, but I really think there are precedences other than the Wilt one.

Are there even any Canadian voters? That might explain something :rofl:


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

I honestly think that if Nash wins again, or perhaps if Billups wins, the NBA might start looking to add some sort of "Best Player" award on top of the MVP award, that recognizes strictly individual excellence for that season. I thought Shaq should have won last season, but still thought that Nash was highly deserving. Still, he's definitely the worst MVP winner ever. Nothing against Nash, I promise, but I don't think it'll reflect very well on the NBA if he's a 2-time MVP, what with all the great players never to even win a single one, much less two. Having said that, I'd still much rather Nash win than Billups.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

LW said:


> :rofl: :rofl: Good point.
> 
> Btw, you mentioned Wilt when he averaged huge numbers. That season is usually used as some sort of precedence to deny the best player in the league his due.
> 
> Well fact is, Wilt wasn't seen as the best player in the league during that particular year (I believe Russell won it). I think the frame of mind during those days was that Russell > Wilt on defense and Russell's role on the Celtics was more important to the success of their dynasty. Points back then wasn't a big deal (scoring was high I think and 50ppg is not as crazy as it seems in context).


Nope. That's not how it went.
Back in the days, Wilt was seen as the better player, but the least valuable of the two. a strange reasoning, in fact, but Wilt was All-nba first team while Russell was winning MVP (and earning second team honors).



> The question is "Did Oscar win the award when he averaged a triple double?" That certainly would make precedence for LeBron winning the award averaging 31/7/7. I don't know the answer and I'm too lazy to check it up, but I really think there are precedences other than the Wilt one.


If i'm not mistake, Oscar's triple-double season took place in the same season that Wilt averaged 50-25. So it's a moot point.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

1. It's arguable that Nash is more valuable to the Suns as any other player in the league is to their team. Voting is opinions and opinions are subjective. Obviously our opinion differs from those voting.

2. An Amare-less Suns without Nash _might_ be a playoff team. I am not certain that they would be. They looked horrible in games without Nash. Last night with Marion out and Nash in the Suns were much better than with Marion in and Nash out against the Lakers. But Bell also played last night where as he didn't against the Lakers. But the Suns without Nash are 0-3 this year against SA, GS, and LAL with averages of 94.7 ppg and 109.3 ppa shooting .422 from the field. Marion played in all those games. 

3. Wilt didn't win MVP that year. Russell did.

4. The only thing I can say is I don't really define the MVP as the award given to the best player in the league but the most valuable to his team. This is why Malone beat out MJ in 97 and why Unseld and Cowens won it as well. 

5. I think Canadian voters are biased. 

Honestly I could care less who won the MVP this year. A lot of people have legitimate claim over it. People can argue this and they can argue that. The only problem people have about Nash winning it is because some people believe the MVP should be reserved for players who they think will end up as an all-time great and those same people do not see that potential in Nash. 




PauloCatarino said:


> No, it's not. And this year's selection is seeming to prove that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

What I want to know... Is what does Kobe do better than Nash, LeBron, and Dirk besides score more points? LeBron and Dirk rebound better, Nash passes way better and turns a team of scrubs not named Shawn Marion into the second seed, they ALL shoot a higher percentage, and Kobe isn't that much of a defender, nor are any of the other candidates. O, and all of them have significantly better records. So what case can you make for Kobe other than the fact that he scored more ppg? Honestly, the people that vote for Kobe might as well just hand the MVP to the leading scorer every year. Because it's the only case anyone can make for Kobe...


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

This is correct. Wilt made first team that year I believe. Russell didn't yet Russell won the MVP.

Russell was also awarded the best player during the 25th anniversary of the NBA I believe.



PauloCatarino said:


> Back in the days, Wilt was seen as the better player, but the least valuable of the two.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Gilgamesh said:


> 4. The only thing I can say is I don't really define the MVP as the award given to the best player in the league but the most valuable to his team. This is why Malone beat out MJ in 97 and why Unseld and Cowens won it as well.


That's the thing, really. 

When Cowens was awarded the MVP, it was the PLAYERS who voted. Cowens was appalled when he won it, and gave thanks to the players who recognized his dedication and hustle (Kareem's stats blew him).

IF today's MVP was to the players to vote, do you think it would escape Kobe?

For all i know, it's the media who votes, right?


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

S-Star said:


> What I want to know... Is what does Kobe do better than Nash, LeBron, and Dirk besides score more points? LeBron and Dirk rebound better, Nash passes way better and turns a team of scrubs not named Shawn Marion into the second seed, they ALL shoot a higher percentage, and Kobe isn't that much of a defender, nor are any of the other candidates. O, and all of them have significantly better records. So what case can you make for Kobe other than the fact that he scored more ppg? Honestly, the people that vote for Kobe might as well just hand the MVP to the leading scorer every year. Because it's the only case anyone can make for Kobe...


are you looking over kobe's multiple all defensive team selections?

he definitely has a much better defensive reputation than nash, lebron, or dirk.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

Maybe the NBA should hand out a separate award like I said like the NHL.

The Hart is the MVP voted by writers and etc.

The Lester B. Pearson is the MVP voted by the players' union.

PFA's MVP is also voted by the players.



PauloCatarino said:


> IF today's MVP was to the players to vote, do you think it would escape Kobe?


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

S-Star said:


> What I want to know... Is what does Kobe do better than Nash, LeBron, and Dirk besides score more points? LeBron and Dirk rebound better, Nash passes way better and turns a team of scrubs not named Shawn Marion into the second seed, they ALL shoot a higher percentage, and Kobe isn't that much of a defender, nor are any of the other candidates. O, and all of them have significantly better records. So what case can you make for Kobe other than the fact that he scored more ppg? Honestly, the people that vote for Kobe might as well just hand the MVP to the leading scorer every year. Because it's the only case anyone can make for Kobe...


Kobe may not be the very best in the league at any one aspect of the game (shooting, passing, rebounding, etc, unless you want to count scoring), but he does _everything_ at an above-average to high level. There's not one thing he's even average at. Do you really dispute this? The people who consider Kobe the best player in the game don't do so simply because he scores a lot, or else Iverson would've been the best for a long time now. Kobe's considered the best because he has no real weaknesses in his game, on top of being the premier scorer in the league.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

S-Star said:


> What I want to know... Is what does Kobe do better than Nash, LeBron, and Dirk besides score more points? LeBron and Dirk rebound better, Nash passes way better and turns a team of scrubs not named Shawn Marion into the second seed, they ALL shoot a higher percentage, and Kobe isn't that much of a defender, nor are any of the other candidates. O, and all of them have significantly better records. So what case can you make for Kobe other than the fact that he scored more ppg? Honestly, the people that vote for Kobe might as well just hand the MVP to the leading scorer every year. Because it's the only case anyone can make for Kobe...


Kobe's overall stats are basically _identical_ to Dirk and LeBron, and clearly superior to Nash. He's also quite obviously the best defender of the bunch. So it's quite easy to make a case for Bryant.

And I'm not sure how taking the Suns to 53 wins makes Nash a better player when he's doing it with better players such as Shawn Marion, who has the significantly higher PER than Odom and was an All Star well before Nash ever became a Sun, while Odom never sniffed the All Star team with or without Bryant. Of course, there's also the Suns superior role players (Barbosa > Vujacic, Diaw > Smush/Kwame/Mihm, etc.). LeBron basically doesn't have any advantage over Bryant in wins (44 wins with Bryant in the lineup, 47 wins with LeBron in the lineup this season), and LeBron is doing that with his best player (Big Z) being better than the Lakers' best player (Odom).


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

And Steve Nash is pretty much the perfect PG at anything except defense. Shooting, Passing, Leadership, Intensity, Sportsmanship and even his rebounding is pretty good for his size.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Amareca said:


> And Steve Nash is pretty much the perfect PG at anything except defense.


Defense, of course, being half the game and what wins championships in crunch time. 



> Shooting, Passing, Leadership, Intensity, Sportsmanship and even his rebounding is pretty good for his size.


lmao at leadership, intensity (can easily argue a dozen players that seem more "intense" than Nash on the court), or sportsmanship (which the best of the best rarely, if ever, showed during the course of a championship series).


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> IF today's MVP was to the players to vote, do you think it would escape Kobe?


That's funny, considering that Nash already has Allen Iverson's vote:


Allen Iverson said:


> "Kobe is playing great, but it's a team game," said Philadelphia's Allen Iverson, the 2001 league MVP. "And you always have to look at how successful a team is, and Steve Nash is at the top of that list. With Amare being out as long as he has, Steve has been able to keep that team where they are. If I had a vote right now, it would be for Steve Nash."


From article: *Nash seems like the players' choice to repeat as MVP*

Elton Brand's:


> The Los Angeles Clippers' Elton Brand (a player whom many feel is MVP worthy) said that Nash, who played a game-high 27 minutes for the West stars, deserves to win the award again.


From article: *Nash is shining brightly for Suns*

And I just watched Jermaine O'Neal endorse Nash earlier on "NBA Coast-to-coast" as his 1st choice, though he said Kobe was close.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

carrrnuttt said:


> That's funny, considering that Nash already has Allen Iverson's vote:
> 
> 
> From article: *Nash seems like the players' choice to repeat as MVP*
> ...



articles from february.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

kflo said:


> articles from february.


lmao. It's sad isn't it?


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

kflo said:


> articles from february.


Why, did Nash fall off since then? :raised_ey


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

i dont hate Steve Nash, well i do, he is in the Pacific Division ahha 

but ....i understand how why they would vote for him.....his team's success this year WITHOUT 

AMARE he kinda "proved" why he was MVP last year..but i still dont think he should hvae got it 

or he should get it if he does.....Kobe....even LeBron (even tho i hate him) Dirk even....


but eh ....peoples definition of MVP is so different now thats its hard to decide...


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

atleast ELton got some votes at all hahah i didnt expect any for him.....



but hope people give him some credit for helping the CLippers make the playoffs


GO CLIPPERS!!! **** THE SUNS!!


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

BTW Carnutttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt,

Chauncey is on "Quite Frankly"...and he'd say he'd vote for himself. Does that make HIM selfish? Told you it wasn't just Kobe. And you didn't get the full interview with Kobe. Like Billups tonight, Kobe had been asked if he'd vote for himself, and both responded with Yes, but others guys are just as deserving...

Billups then went on to say he think Kobe and LeBron are the best players in the league.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

The MAMBA said:


> BTW Carnutttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt,
> 
> Chauncey is on "Quite Frankly"...and he'd say he'd vote for himself. Does that make HIM selfish? Told you it wasn't just Kobe. And you didn't get the full interview with Kobe. Like Billups tonight, Kobe had been asked if he'd vote for himself, and both responded with Yes, but others guys are just as deserving...
> 
> Billups then went on to say he think Kobe and LeBron are the best players in the league.


The thing with Kobe hate is that they realize the truth but refuse to acknowledge it. By trying to prove them wrong they'll only fall deeper into the hate with more excuses.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

The MAMBA said:


> Billups then went on to say he think Kobe and LeBron are the best players in the league.


Surprising, well not really. Mike D'Antoni himself thinks Kobe is the best player in the league. So does Amare Stoudemire. It's pretty much the heavy consensus around the league that Kobe is the best player in the league, and LeBron is right there with him, everyone else isn't close. Tim Duncan was right there too until this year where he had his worst year. 

It's to the point where if LeBron or Kobe don't win MVP, the award will be looked off, and it will be a huge hit to it's credibility.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Furthermore it would make Nash as the most overrated MVP in league history.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

When does the voting conclude?

If Nash wins the MVP, Kobe can pull an Olajuwon when Hakeem proved to everybody who the real MVP (as in best player in the league) was.

Nobody remembers the Admiral winning the MVP but everybody remembers Hakeem destroying him.



Sir Patchwork said:


> Surprising, well not really. Mike D'Antoni himself thinks Kobe is the best player in the league. So does Amare Stoudemire. It's pretty much the heavy consensus around the league that Kobe is the best player in the league, and LeBron is right there with him, everyone else isn't close. Tim Duncan was right there too until this year where he had his worst year.
> 
> It's to the point where if LeBron or Kobe don't win MVP, the award will be looked off, and it will be a huge hit to it's credibility.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

LW said:


> The thing with Kobe hate is that they realize the truth but refuse to acknowledge it. By trying to prove them wrong they'll only fall deeper into the hate with more excuses.


Exactly. Deep down, they know it in their heart what is true. But they look to cover up the insecurities of it by making retarded excuses.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Gilgamesh said:


> When does the voting conclude?
> 
> If Nash wins the MVP, Kobe can pull an Olajuwon when Hakeem proved to everybody who the real MVP (as in best player in the league) was.


I've always felt the MVP award ceremony was done in a weird fashion. Typically it happens in the second round but we've never seen the MVP winner eliminated from the first round before!

What if LeBron wins it and his team falls to the Wiz? What if Kobe/Nash won it and their teams fall in the first round?

Will the world see the first MVP award ceremony done via Satellite TV from the winner's living room?


----------



## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

Kobe has not chance at MVP with a 7th seed despite his remarkable season.

Most Valuable Player of the year:
NASH
Bron
Kobe


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

That is exactly why I mentioned it and why I want to know when the voting concludes.

If Nash wins and Kobe finds out imagine the extra motivation that would fuel his killer instinct.



LW said:


> I've always felt the MVP award ceremony was done in a weird fashion. Typically it happens in the second round but we've never seen the MVP winner eliminated from the first round before!
> 
> What if LeBron wins it and his team falls to the Wiz? What if Kobe/Nash won it and their teams fall in the first round?
> 
> Will the world see the first MVP award ceremony done via Satellite TV from the winner's living room?


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

MiamiHeat03 said:


> Kobe has not chance at MVP with a 7th seed despite his remarkable season.
> 
> Most Valuable Player of the year:
> NASH
> ...


What are your thoughts on Wade being left out completely seemingly? Dude has the numbers, the wins, the defensive reputation from the all-nba team last year and the late game heroics. People are sleeping on him.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Gilgamesh said:


> That is exactly why I mentioned it and why I want to know when the voting concludes.
> 
> If Nash wins and Kobe finds out imagine the extra motivation that would fuel his killer instinct.


Im sure he knows by now that his chances of winning it are slim...im really liking this. I hope Nash wins it and we beat the Phoenix in the first round with an exceptional series from Kobe.


----------



## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

ESPN "experts" vote:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2411683


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Aurelino said:


> ESPN "experts" vote:
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2411683


IM surprised Scoop Jackson voted for Lebron, he has supported Kobe in most occassions.

Bill Simmons voting for kobe is just straight up comedy though, who would've thought? lol


----------



## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

well he is great of course but lately he has been cutting his scoring but what is remarkeable is that he is almost shooting at .500%FG at 27ppg. Even last year he had like 1.10bpg as a SG and 6'4.

If Wade ever develops a 3point shot he would be close to unstoppable as Kobe is now,


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

Sir Patchwork said:


> What are your thoughts on Wade being left out completely seemingly? Dude has the numbers, the wins, the defensive reputation from the all-nba team last year and the late game heroics. People are sleeping on him.


I know your question was addressed to MiamiHeat03 but I'll give my 2 cents as well.

DWade had a particularly spectacular stretch this year but while he shone bright, he could only sustain the MVP level of brilliance for while. Also his team's record without Shaq is detrimental to whatever case he had. He needed to carry that Heat team to victories while his lazy counterpart was in his usual hibernation period.

I've always felt DWade's upside is his clutchness and penchant for big time plays (2004 playoffs anyone?). He gets his fair dose of criticism about his absent midrange game, but it always seems to pop out when the big shot is needed. Maybe Wade is just one of those players who don't bring their A game until its "do or die" like his new friend Shaq. MVPs need to sustain a high level of play all season and Wade hasn't been able to take on that perception this season.


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

LW said:


> The thing with Kobe hate is that they realize the truth but refuse to acknowledge it.


Ha. That same "thing" applies to the Kobe circle jerk.

Look. I acknowledge, and accept that Kobe is the BEST player in the league, by far. Thing is, all he has going for him is his scoring, especially against the likes of Wade and Billups, who are not bad defenders themselves.

Now, you will take the above as a hit against Nash, considering I mentioned "defense". Thing is, Nash is FAR from being the worst defender in the league, at least stats-wise. Nash was even listed as a "two-way" player by 82games, _according to his stats_.

So his defense is not enough to bring down all the other enormous intangibles he brings to his team.

I am sure (or hoping) that you have heard of the Chinese proverb: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." -- Lao Tzu

In our little story, Kobe's the man feeding his team (scoring for them), while Nash is the one teaching his team (helping THEM score, helping them ease into the system, giving his coaches an easier time). Who would you value more?

Let's say that all of these two players' assists were only for two points (which we know isn't true, especially for Nash). In 41.1 minutes per game, Kobe contributes an average of 44.4 points per game (35.4ppg + [4.5apg X 2]). Nash, on the other hand, plays 35.5 minutes per game, contributing an average of 39.7 points per game (18.9ppg + [10.4apg X 2]). Nash's numbers have been going down too, as his minutes have been decreasing dramatically in the past couple of months, as the Suns make sure he's ready for his extended minutes in the Playoffs. Oh, and Nash is averaging 4.1 rebounds in that time, well _*above*_ his career average, against Kobe's 5.3, which is Kobe's average.

Again, this is assuming Nash and Kobe's assists are only for two's, which we all know they're not, especially for Nash. So, is Kobe _really_ contributing THAT much more than Nash? Especially considering that Nash's teammates' confidence get better with him, and the total opposite occurs with you-know-who.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> IM surprised Scoop Jackson voted for Lebron, he has supported Kobe in most occassions.
> 
> Bill Simmons voting for kobe is just straight up comedy though, who would've thought? lol


Scoop has been turning on Kobe ever since he became an ESPN sell-out. Even his positive articles about Kobe contain subliminal punches at the Mamba. I don't get it, only to say Scoop has definitely left his man hanging. Old Scoop was always in Kobe's corner and seemed to understand the guy. Has he gone Hollywood on us?


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

LW said:


> Scoop has been turning on Kobe ever since he became an ESPN sell-out. Even his positive articles about Kobe contain subliminal punches at the Mamba. I don't get it, only to say Scoop has definitely left his man hanging. Old Scoop was always in Kobe's corner and seemed to understand the guy. Has he gone Hollywood on us?


I think your're right I have noticed after his SLAM days that his articles are somewhat different when it comes to Kobe, I was hoping he could come correct when it matters the most, guess I was fooled.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

carrrnuttt said:


> Look. I acknowledge, and accept that Kobe is the BEST player in the league, by far. Thing is, all he has going for him is his scoring, especially against the likes of Wade and Billups, who are not bad defenders themselves.


So in one sentence Kobe is the best. The next sentence all he does is score? 



> I am sure (or hoping) that you have heard of the Chinese proverb: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." -- Lao Tzu


I thought this was about Kobe, not Nash? Oh and btw, Lao Tzu's proverb is about imparting knowledge and self-sustaining ability, not about spoon feeding players 3 point shots. If anything, Phil Jackson's coaching philosophy applies most to your quote, not Nash.

My original post wasn't a response about Nash though was it? It was addressing the hate you have for Kobe. From what I gather of your posts, your hate for him stems from your inability to accept who he is as a person, not his ability as a basketball player. I suppose I can't criticize you for that, because I'd be a hypocrit to give you the "holier than thou" treatment. All I am saying is when you bring up your beef with Kobe in a basketball board it will hopefully be basketball based and not about his personality.

Going back to that Lao Tzu quote, again, it is about imparting potency in those around you, not making things easier for them. In Kobe's case, he's made Kwame "the bust" Brown look like Kwame "the beast" Brown. He's challenged each of his teammates, especially Lamar Odom on a mental level. He's been able to impart the killer instinct to his teammates, something that was missing at the beginning of the year. I'm not sure how much more fishing you want Kobe to teach.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

LW said:


> So in one sentence Kobe is the best. The next sentence all he does is score?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This guy is good...damn.


----------



## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

carrrnuttt said:


> Let's say that all of these two players' assists were only for two points (which we know isn't true, especially for Nash). In 41.1 minutes per game, Kobe contributes an average of 44.4 points per game (35.4ppg + [4.5apg X 2]). Nash, contributing an average of 39.7 points per game (18.9ppg + [10.4apg X 2]).


44.4 is more than 39.7...


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Brian Cook and Chris Mihm (the Lakers main rotation this year, sad I know) have all had their best years, in my opinion. Obviously Kobe is having his best year, also. 

The problem is that their best years still aren't very good, because the overall team talent just isn't there. The Lakers 2nd best player this year, Lamar Odom, was voted in a poll on this site to be worse than the Suns 3rd best player, Boris Diaw. 

Although lately, Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown have been playing really well, and it's showing in the win loss column. They are one of the hottest teams in the league with Odom and Kwame giving Kobe some help, and Kobe is having his best month of the year during this time. April has been the Lakers very best month for everyone involved.


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

LW said:


> So in one sentence Kobe is the best. The next sentence all he does is score?


He is a GREAT player, BUT all he has over any of the other candidates really is his scoring ability, which his SKILL allows him to do with ease.

What's so hard to understand about that? 



LW said:


> I thought this was about Kobe, not Nash?


Would you rather I responded to you in particular, and followed it up with another thread, with my additional thoughts on why *you* Kobe groupies don't get it, as much as you are accusing the opposition of the same?



LW said:


> Oh and btw, Lao Tzu's proverb is about imparting knowledge and self-sustaining ability, not about spoon feeding players 3 point shots. If anything, Phil Jackson's coaching philosophy applies most to your quote, not Nash.


You might be a halfway decent philosophizer, but you are crap at analogies.

Ok, let's forget Lao Tzu, because you will try to deflect the analogy using philosophy again. Are you a politician?

What's more valuable? A player who scores FOR the team, to the point of taking away shots from teammates, or a player who makes it easier for THE REST of the team to score? A player who makes it easier for the coach, or a player who makes his coach worry about his ego, and even regularly breaks away from set plays to take his shots?



LW said:


> My original post wasn't a response about Nash though was it? It was addressing the hate you have for Kobe. From what I gather of your posts, your hate for him stems from your inability to accept who he is as a person, not his ability as a basketball player. I suppose I can't criticize you for that, because I'd be a hypocrit to give you the "holier than thou" treatment. All I am saying is when you bring up your beef with Kobe in a basketball board it will hopefully be basketball based and not about his personality.


His personality bleeds on to the court too, almost literally. Ask Mike Miller about that.



LW said:


> Going back to that Lao Tzu quote, again, it is about imparting potency in those around you, not making things easier for them. In Kobe's case, he's made Kwame "the bust" Brown look like Kwame "the beast" Brown.


How? By yelling at him? By smirking about how good a player he is? I'd like to see your source on this one, before I attribute KB's improvements to Kobe, and not PJ's coaching, or KB finally finding his mojo on his own.



LW said:


> He's challenged each of his teammates, especially Lamar Odom...


To fistfights? 



LW said:


> ...on a mental level.


Oh. That. How much berating did that take to finally "challenge" Odom? I don't remember Wade having to do the same for him to perform _with_ Wade that way, as opposed to how he's performing _for_ Kobe now. 



LW said:


> He's been able to impart the killer instinct to his teammates, something that was missing at the beginning of the year. I'm not sure how much more fishing you want Kobe to teach.


He didn't impart crap, much less teach, or otherwise they'd all be jacking up 30 shots a night, and fighting about it. *That's* Kobe's instinct. Killer, huh? Maybe they finally decided that Kobe just isn't really going to carry the team by himself, and decided that their game just _might_ be needed for them to win (or maybe PJ pointed it out).


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

carrrnuttt said:


> His personality bleeds on to the court too, almost literally. Ask Mike Miller about that.
> 
> How? By yelling at him? By smirking about how good a player he is? I'd like to see your source on this one, before I attribute KB's improvements to Kobe, and not PJ's coaching, or KB finally finding his mojo on his own.
> 
> ...


Assumptions about his personality. See what I mean? Your post was decent until you degraded to trashing Kobe on what he does off the court instead of focusing what he does on it. That's when you know you're using whatever material the media can feed you.

Anyway, I'll address the part of your post that had some content to it: do I want someone who can dish assists versus someone who just scores. Well, isn't that a loaded question? When it boils down to reality, when its Nash or Kobe, I'll take Kobe anyday. Pickup game, structured game, college game, NBA game, high school game, I don't care. And believe it or not, Kobe DOES make his teammates better. He does get guys open looks. He averages 5 assists a game (for those who begrudgingly need stats to make a conversation worthwhile) which is the highest, I believe, for players that are classified as pure SGs (e.g. no Wade). I don't get what more Kobe has to do to get some validation when he makes Smush ****ing Parker a nationally recognized name.


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

LW said:


> That's when you know you're using whatever material the media can feed you.


Then show me what the media has been feeding YOU about this "teacher Kobe". Or are you some Laker insider?

Mind you, I was paying attention to Kobe from when he was being touted from his PA high-school, and before I became settled in Phoenix, was a huge fan of the whole NBA (moved around a lot, military brat, and was military myself), which included the Lakers franchise, and Magic and Kareem, two of my childhood heroes.

I was happy to see Kobe acquired by the Lakers, and had high hopes for the kid, before I saw him turn into this raving egomaniac.

Thing that disappoints me the most, is that there is starting to be a clear distinction between a Lakers fan, and a Kobe fan, and the latter's enveloping the other more and more every year, as Kobe's PR machine works its magic.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

carrrnuttt said:


> Then show me what the media has been feeding YOU about this "teacher Kobe". Or are you some Laker insider?
> 
> Mind you, I was paying attention to Kobe from when he was being touted from his PA high-school, and before I became settled in Phoenix, was a huge fan of the whole NBA (moved around a lot, military brat, and was military myself), which included the Lakers franchise, and Magic and Kareem, two of my childhood heroes.
> 
> ...


A fellow semi-Laker fan? I wouldn't be able to tell...

As for Kobe's PR Magic, there almost is none. If you really knew Kobe you'd know he doesn't give a **** about how you percieve him. He is truly an introvert, he could care less about PR, so I kind of doubt your claim to Lakerfanship.

Where do I get this image of Teacher-Kobe? The answer is Michael Jordan, my old favorite player. Since I'm thinking you're a Jordan fan as well, you'd know how he'd scream and yell and complain at his players behind closed doors. The difference for the Bulls club was that the guys who recieved the tough lashing were class-acts like Pippen, who understood what it took to get to the next level mentally. Kobe Bryant has always reminded me of Jordan, from his intensity for the game of basketball all the way down to his very fadeaway. Everything about him oozes Michael, except his PR attitude.

When Kobe lashes out at his teammates, he's an *******. He's a *****. He ruins chemistry. When Jordan does it, he's a miracle worker by osmosis. I'll remind you that Jordan once called Kwame a "flaming ******" in front of the whole team. I don't agree with those politically insensitive words, but I understand what he was doing - he was trying to reach out to Kwame and make him tougher. Apparently, Kwame gets it now and is doing fine in LA, despite, I'll assume, constant scoldings by Kobe Bean Bryant. (Although Kobe has spoken out that he is trying the sensitive approach to Kwame, and sees him as a little brother)

You know what? You're a Jordan fan, so am I. You're a Laker fan, so am I. The only difference between you and me? I don't give a **** what the media says about my boy Kobe. I understand it takes failure to breed success.


----------



## lessthanjake (Jul 4, 2005)

The problem with LeBron and Kobe winning is that their resume for the MVP is the exact same. Both have great stats and are carrying a crappy team to a good record through their individual achievement. This obviously means that the voters who feel that that is the best criteria for an MVP will be split.

At the same time the people who feel that basically the best player on the best team should get it will be split between Dirk and Chauncey.

That leaves Nash who is more of a carrying a crappy team to a good record not through individual achievement but by making his teammates and his team work way better than it would otherwise. There's no one else that does that and thats why hes getting the most votes.


With that said I think the people here who are saying this is crap that Nash is ahead need to calm down. Here are a few things to consider.

1. I cant find anyone in the NBA who scores more efficiently than Nash. No one. Now I may be missing some lone person who has a higher efficiency in scoring but the guys true shooting percentage is .628. That is insane, especially for a guard.
2. It is becuase of him that the Suns have turned into such a three point shooting monster of a team. Last time I checked they are incredibly close to making 40% of their three pointers. Now with that said I would argue that his assist totals are amazing because hes getting them on threes. An assist on a three is worth more than an assist on a two. Thats just fact and Nash gets A LOT of those. 

Nash could take any team to the playoffs. I honestly beleive that. You could put him on the Hawks or the Trailblazers and theyd be in the playoffs. You cant say that about Kobe or LeBron I dont think.


----------



## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

the media says this is the closest MVP race they've seen..i dont get it i dont think its close at all..in my mind Kobe Bryant is without question the NBA's MVP this year- Not only has he gotten what everybody thought was pretty much a D-League team in the playoffs..but some people are saying they could upset the suns in the 1st round, soley b/c they have Kobe..never has 1 player had the impact on a team that Kobe has this Laker team(he is the team) --Not to mention all the records Kobe has broke this year ...i honestly will be outraged if anyone other than Kobe or Lebron wins the MVP. I almost find it laughable to think of steve nash as a 2 time mvp, and i do laugh every time i hear someone say chauncey billups is the mvp --in my mind the only true "canidates" are dirk, bron, n Kobe(who i think is the obvious choice)


----------



## lessthanjake (Jul 4, 2005)

Nash's TS% is .628. Nash has the Suns themselves with a TS% of .569. Kobe Bryant has a TS% of .558. His teams TS% is .538.

In short, Nash has not only himself but the entire Suns team scoring more efficiently than Kobe Bryant (and scoring almost ten points more than the Lakers as a team I might add). 

Kobe may score a lot but really his output isnt as efficient as to Suns as a whole who are obviously less talented than him. The reason for that is Nash. Its that simple.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Damnit. I had written this semi long post but it never showed up cuz of am error.


To sum it up a bit. I've been gone for 1 1/2 weeks. But I don't think Nash should win it. Winning 2 would put him on an elite level which he is not overall. In NBA now, yes he is up there but he would have to continue to play like this longer to be overall. Just doesn't seem right for some reason. Also, with how we slipped a bit late this season not counting those wins VS Mavs and Kings he lost steam.

In a non clear cut yr, you would think give it to best player in Kobe. I had a problem with his team being 7th seed but I don't mind anymore. Lebron or Dirk would be good choices as well.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

When will the true results be in?


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> When will the true results be in?


Don't know the exact date, or even if there is an exact date, but it'll probably be during the first week in May.


----------



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

socco said:


> Don't know the exact date, or even if there is an exact date, but it'll probably be during the first week in May.


Thanks, socco.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ Yeah, it's almost always the semifinals of every postseason, as far back as I can remember.


----------



## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

If its a toss up between kobe and lebron the voters should vote kobe cuz lebron will have plenty of time to win his and Kobe has been proving his greatness for years


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Steve Nash in no way deserves the MVP this year. Not in the slightest. Especially not with having basketball players now sit out and rest to prevent "injury". When did people EVER do this in basketball? In Football, sure... its a high contact sport, but bball? It's ****ing bull****.


This is definitely hateing here. Yeah, Nash should be serious playing against the Lakers and Lakers might not make it to the playoffs if they lost to the Lakers.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

John said:


> This is definitely hateing here. Yeah, Nash should be serious playing against the Lakers *and Lakers might not make it to the playoffs if they lost to the Lakers*.


That's true.


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

*Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/basketball/14356300.htm 

Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Moses Malone
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Tim Duncan
Steve Nash

A list of the only back to back MVP winners (well soon enough at least). :biggrin: :biggrin: 

Oh how SWEET it is :banana: 

Nash currently has a good lead with more than 1/3 of the voters reporting:

1ST 2ND 3RD
Steve Nash
14 17 4
Dirk Nowitzki
13 6 9
LeBron James
8 8 11
Chauncey Billups
6 4 9
Kobe Bryant
3 7 8
Elton Brand
0 1 2
Dwyane Wade
0 1 0
Tim Duncan
0 0 1


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

2/3rds still to vote. And I've been hearing a lot of rumblings about Kobe and Bron. Cavs ended up with 50 wins on the year.


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



futuristxen said:


> 2/3rds still to vote. And I've been hearing a lot of rumblings about Kobe and Bron. Cavs ended up with 50 wins on the year.


Seeing that the sample the magazine took was much like a simple random sample in statistics you can infer the rest of the populace will vote very close to what has already been reported. This doesn't mean Nash will necessarily win... but it does mean that as of now Nash and Nowitzki are probably now the only two people with legitimate chances of winning.


----------



## LW (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=259637

There's already a 400+ post monstrosity on this subject.


----------



## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

If they voted before they submitted their picks to that article, it's probably an accurate predictor, but if they didn't, they are fickle and could quickly change their mind.


----------



## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

forget the fact that i think Kobe is the clear MVP, but to be 5th on that list is a joke IMO


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

If you can find me a player who can make his team win with Boris Diaw being the biggest player in the post than I'm all ears. 

Everyone keeps mentioning how Amare has missed all season... but what about Kurt Thomas and Brian Grant.. they were the only other two legitimate post threats the Suns had but both have missed very significant time. 

Yes the Suns had more talent than the Lakers when it came to the reserves. However unfortunately for the Suns the talent was not even close to evenly distrubuted like on the Lakers, the Suns talent mostly consisted of only guards and small forwards... yet they still managed to secure the second seed in the west. 

Just think of this... last year if someone told you a team would be able to win by playing Boris Diaw at Center and Tim Thomas at PF you'd probably have laughed in their face. When they further told you that team won 52 games you'd probably respond, "Well then that pretty much guarentees there's a player on the team who deserves the MVP because frankly that would be the greatest miracle in sports history."

Nash is the MVP.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

tempe85 said:


> If you can find me a player who can make his team win with Boris Diaw being the biggest player in the post than I'm all ears.


Easy; the New Jersey Nets this year.



> Everyone keeps mentioning how Amare has missed all season... but what about Kurt Thomas and Brian Grant.. they were the only other two legitimate post threats the Suns had but both have missed very significant time.


You don't need a post threat to win a lot of games in the regular season. See the Nets this year and the Mavs for the last I don't know how many years.



> Yes the Suns had more talent than the Lakers when it came to the reserves. However unfortunately for the Suns the talent was not even close to evenly distrubuted like on the Lakers, the Suns talent mostly consisted of only guards and small forwards... yet they still managed to secure the second seed in the west.


Uh, please list the "talent" the Lakers had spread across the board as you seem to be implying. I'd much rather have Shawn Marion than Lamar Odom. Or Boris Diaw instead of Smush Parker. 



> Just think of this... last year if someone told you a team would be able to win by playing Boris Diaw at Center and Tim Thomas at PF you'd probably have laughed in their face. When they further told you that team won 52 games you'd probably respond, "Well then that pretty much guarentees there's a player on the team who deserves the MVP because frankly that would be the greatest miracle in sports history."


Naw, I'd say that they didn't know much about Diaw's game. Several posters including myself were saying what a steal Diaw would be when he was doing nothing with the Hawks. Look it up. 



> Nash is the MVP.


Nope, not statistically and certainly not based on his defensive impact. Great fit for his team, though.


----------



## Plastic Man (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



tempe85 said:


> http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/basketball/14356300.htm
> 
> Bill Russell
> Wilt Chamberlain
> ...


There's another word for that which comes to my mind: SAD.


----------



## bbasok (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

edit:wrong thread


----------



## blh5387 (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

Nowitzki number 2? Huh. I mean, it's not THAT surprising when you really think about it, but still didn't expect to see him that high. Wow.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

Even as a Suns fan, this is one reason why I don't think Nash should win it. He's not elite in NBA history. Maybe elite in the present, yes but he have to play like this till his late 30's or when he's 40 to warrant elite status. We also stumbled a bit at the end of the yr before those wins against Mavs and Kings. His play also fizzled down too from what it was before which is another reason why I don't think he should win. If we hadn't it may have swayed my mind but still the fact that he would join a group like that doesn't seem right. 

In a non clear cut yr, give it to the best player in NBA in Kobe(which I had a problem with a week ago but I don't mind). If not, Lebron for what he did


----------



## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

All the more reason that Nash shouldn't repeat. He doesn't belong w/ that company. All those guys won at least 2 championships as well. Nash better get going to catch up.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

the suns are built for speed. lets not act like they're compensating for what they don't have. they are the way they are in large part by design. and they can play that way because guys like marion, diaw, bell and even thomas do alot of the dirty work. marion i often think is overrated overall, but in the context of contributions to the suns, he's pretty underrated. nash isn't doing what he's doing in spite of the way the team is structured. he's doing it in part because of the way the team is structured.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

it is rather baffling how nash can have 35 votes of 1-3, and dwyane wade has 1. 

also, marion is better statistically, plays 5 minutes more per game, plays infinitely better defense, and gets nothing.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

btw, mvp should be based solely on merits of this season, not historical significance. whoever deserves it, should get it, regardless of what the implications are.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

it seems nash actually gets significant HELP by people thinking he's not as good a player as a lebron, kobe, even dirk. their teams are expected to do well in part because people think they should be good with them on it. nash gets the benefit of lower expectations because people simply don't think he's on their level. so when his team does well, they marvel. but what's the difference between what he did and what dirk did, and dirk's team won 6 more games?


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



kflo said:


> it seems nash actually gets significant HELP by people thinking he's not as good a player as a lebron, kobe, even dirk. their teams are expected to do well in part because people think they should be good with them on it. nash gets the benefit of lower expectations because people simply don't think he's on their level. so when his team does well, they marvel. but what's the difference between what he did and what dirk did, and dirk's team won 6 more games?


This is an excellent point. When was the last time you had an MVP (let alone back to back), another top 10-15 player by his side, another top 50 player, and a few good shooters and roleplayers, and they weren't even top 5 on people's championship predictions going into the playoffs?


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



futuristxen said:


> 2/3rds still to vote. And I've been hearing a lot of rumblings about Kobe and Bron. Cavs ended up with 50 wins on the year.


Still Lebron didn't play the games. They also lost when he came back for one game...that might hurt his image a little bit. Its either him or Nash for me.


----------



## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

Nash does NOT deserve to be on that list...peirod...


----------



## ninjarr (Jan 20, 2006)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

I like how everyone calls out Nash for being on that list, but everyone also called Isiah "classless" when he froze Jordan out of the ASG for being "uppity." The MVP is a way to establish today's stars, not a way to reflect on those of the past.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

Why do people think Nash is going to win it this season?? Has the result come out yet? I am not so sure about that.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



kflo said:


> it seems nash actually gets significant HELP by people thinking he's not as good a player as a lebron, kobe, even dirk. their teams are expected to do well in part because people think they should be good with them on it. nash gets the benefit of lower expectations because people simply don't think he's on their level. so when his team does well, they marvel. but what's the difference between what he did and what dirk did, and dirk's team won 6 more games?


Easy answer. Because Nash is the least respected MVP and when he and his team actually perform well, it's a surprise! 

On the other hand, when Lebron, Kobe or other MVP candidates perform worse than Nash's team, it's THEIR TEAMMATES' fault. It has nothing to do with the "stars". Great thinking. :clown: 

Edit: Just like how KG is one of the MOST talented (in terms of stats) players in the history of NBA and when his team fails, it's the organization's fault. KG has nothing to do with it. Do you buy it? I do!


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

Simply put, Steve Nash doesn't belong on that list.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

tempe85 said:


> If you can find me a player who can make his team win with Boris Diaw being the biggest player in the post than I'm all ears.


there is someone named shawn marion. he seems to be a large part of the suns success.



> Everyone keeps mentioning how Amare has missed all season... but what about Kurt Thomas and Brian Grant.. they were the only other two legitimate post threats the Suns had but both have missed very significant time.


kurt thomas and brian grant aren't legitimate post threats. having them out and forcing the suns to go small helped the suns more than playing them would have. when the strength of the team is speed, passing, and shooting why put a big guy out there that will slow everything down and make it easier for the other team?



> Just think of this... last year if someone told you a team would be able to win by playing Boris Diaw at Center and Tim Thomas at PF you'd probably have laughed in their face. When they further told you that team won 52 games you'd probably respond, "Well then that pretty much guarentees there's a player on the team who deserves the MVP because frankly that would be the greatest miracle in sports history."


that is a joke. again you seem to be forgetting about a guy named shawn marion. and kurt thomas did play 50 games.

nash is having a great season. he is. but i don't see how the suns not having any true post players is supposed to help nash's case for the mvp. nash plays pg. having marion, diaw, and thomas playing as the "post" players just helps nash. they can stretch the defense making it easier for nash to drive and there is more room which makes passes easier.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

everyone who has payed attention this year knows nash is mvp only in name

so undeserving its not even funny


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

rocketeer said:


> there is someone named shawn marion. he seems to be a large part of the suns success.


So I guess Karl Malone didn't deserve to win because he had a top 50 NBA player in history on his team in Stockton, or perhaps Jordan didn't deserve to win because he had the same thing in Pippen. Are you saying that Marion is a top 50 player in NBA history. 


> kurt thomas and brian grant aren't legitimate post threats. having them out and forcing the suns to go small helped the suns more than playing them would have. when the strength of the team is speed, passing, and shooting why put a big guy out there that will slow everything down and make it easier for the other team?


Baloney. The Suns were actually playing really good defense, in fact ranked in the top of the league, while Kurt was healthy. The moment he went down the team stumbled because they no longer had a post threat. 



> that is a joke. again you seem to be forgetting about a guy named shawn marion. and kurt thomas did play 50 games.


What you expect Nash to do it all alone? Every single MVP winner in the past (minus Iverson perhaps) has probably had a comparable player to Marion (in most cases probably better). The simple matter of the fact is the Suns took a bad rebounder for a SF, moved him to PF, and a backup guard on the worst team in the league last year and made him their center and they still won games. No one would have believed that were possible last year. 



> nash is having a great season. he is. but i don't see how the suns not having any true post players is supposed to help nash's case for the mvp. nash plays pg. having marion, diaw, and thomas playing as the "post" players just helps nash. they can stretch the defense making it easier for nash to drive and there is more room which makes passes easier.


Haha helps Nash? What? What helps Nash is his team winning as many games as possible. When Kurt went down the Suns started getting abused on the post all the time. They did stumble a bit but were still able to secure the division despite playing almost half of the season in their current state. Quite remarkable.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

The only guys that deserve MVP, in my opinion, are Dirk, James, and Bryant.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

I think I'm gonna be sick.


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



jibikao said:


> Edit: Just like how KG is one of the MOST talented (in terms of stats) players in the history of NBA and when his team fails, it's the organization's fault. KG has nothing to do with it. Do you buy it? I do!


On a side note I find it really funny how two of the last "fall men" for the Wolves are now making significant contributions to other teams. Sam Cassell for example has been terrific for the Clippers and Flip Saunders will probably win coach of the year for the Pistons.

However when they were on the Wolves everyone pointed to them and said 'they' were they problems.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*

See this is the main reason why people don't want Nash to win the MVP because they don't think he belongs in that "legend" class which is what I argued in another thread.

But if we stop looking at the MVP as a historic achievement but as what the player was able to achieve in the season he played in I can see why Nash might win another MVP. There are a lot of favourable arguments for him winning it. Same goes for the other candidates. 

I have no problem with Nash winning the MVP. I have no problem with any of the top candidates winning the MVP. 

Who knows when Nash retires he might end up as a top 5 PG ever to play this game not because of his # of MVPs but what he was able to do on the court.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



tempe85 said:


> On a side note I find it really funny how two of the last "fall men" for the Wolves are now making significant contributions to other teams. Sam Cassell for example has been terrific for the Clippers and Flip Saunders will probably win coach of the year for the Pistons.
> 
> However when they were on the Wolves everyone pointed to them and said 'they' were they problems.


Flip wasn't the problem. Sam certainly was. He was great the first year, then turned into a ***** the next year. It's no surprise that he's doing well in his first year with the Clippers, particularily in a contract year.


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



socco said:


> Flip wasn't the problem. Sam certainly was. He was great the first year, then turned into a ***** the next year. It's no surprise that he's doing well in his first year with the Clippers, particularily in a contract year.


Well Flip was fired... and at the time a very large majority of Wolve fans were very pleased. Now you can deny that's true, just like George Bush is so good at doing, but it happened.

And Cassell has had many great years not in contract seasons. He's a talented player... thankfully he's on a real team now and has led them to the playoffs.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

tempe85 said:


> So I guess Karl Malone didn't deserve to win because he had a top 50 NBA player in history on his team in Stockton, or perhaps Jordan didn't deserve to win because he had the same thing in Pippen. Are you saying that Marion is a top 50 player in NBA history.


when did i say that nash couldn't win the mvp because he had marion? i was talking about the "boris diaw" part of your statement. and it seems funny that suns fans always try to talk down diaw, marion, and the rest of the guys in saying that nash is mvp but then they want diaw to win MIP, marion to make an all nba team and be an allstar, and have d'antoni win coach of the year.



> What you expect Nash to do it all alone? Every single MVP winner in the past (minus Iverson perhaps) has probably had a comparable player to Marion (in most cases probably better). The simple matter of the fact is the Suns took a bad rebounder for a SF, moved him to PF, and a backup guard on the worst team in the league last year and made him their center and they still won games. No one would have believed that were possible last year.


boris diaw is not a center. that's a joke. just because you always say it doesn't make it true. and i hope the bad rebounding sf is tim thomas and not shawn marion you are talking about. but if it is, why do you keep leaving out marion? it's not like nash is leading a team of bad players and making them all great. the role players are all pretty much shooting the same percentages this season as they have in the past.



> Haha helps Nash? What?


the suns "post" players are quicker than the guys on other teams. they shoot better from the outside. they pass better. this helps nash and his numbers. when the other team's big men have to step out to the perimeter to guard quicker players, that creates easier assist opportunities and bigger lanes to drive and pass through. this helps nash. it hurts the suns on defense. nash isn't good on defense. and it definitely isn't nash's fault if his team gets abused in the post. so it helps nash on offense and doesn't hurt nash on defense. are you saying that doesn't help nash?

but really none of this means anything. nash is a great player right now. he is a valuable player. but he isn't more valuable or better than lebron and kobe. we can argue nash all day for 3rd place along with dirk if you want, but he just doesn't belong in the mvp discussion with the years lebron and kobe have had.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



tempe85 said:


> Well Flip was fired... and at the time a very large majority of Wolve fans were very pleased. Now you can deny that's true, just like George Bush is so good at doing, but it happened.


If you say it happened it must've happened.



tempe85 said:


> And Cassell has had many great years not in contract seasons. He's a talented player... thankfully he's on a real team now and has led them to the playoffs.


lol, oh, so the Timberwolves aren't a real team. Uh, ok. Cassell's a baby. I love him, but he's a baby. And that is one of the big reasons why the Wolves sucked that year.


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



socco said:


> If you say it happened it must've happened.
> 
> 
> lol, oh, so the Timberwolves aren't a real team. Uh, ok. Cassell's a baby. I love him, but he's a baby. And that is one of the big reasons why the Wolves sucked that year.


Wolves sucked this year too... but Cassell's team was great this year. Perhaps....... NAH!


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



tempe85 said:


> Wolves sucked this year too... but Cassell's team was great this year. Perhaps....... NAH!


You're pretty good at telling me what the problem wasn't. How about you give your great insight into what the problem was then?


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

rocketeer said:


> when did i say that nash couldn't win the mvp because he had marion? i was talking about the "boris diaw" part of your statement. and it seems funny that suns fans always try to talk down diaw, marion, and the rest of the guys in saying that nash is mvp but then they want diaw to win MIP, marion to make an all nba team and be an allstar, and have d'antoni win coach of the year.


You specifically said, "there is someone named shawn marion. he seems to be a large part of the suns success." And I agree... he did play a large part of their success. Just like Stockton and Pippen did for their teams. I'm sure you'll agree that they were even better than Marion so I figure what Nash did was even more impressive. 

I'm not talking down Diaw or Marion or D'Antoni at all. I'm just saying it's Nash who in the Most Valuable Player they have... simple enough. But I'm sure you'll further agree playing Diaw at Center is not exactly what even D'Antoni wanted to happen. Most of their lineup adjustments were completely unplanned... Nash made it work. 




> boris diaw is not a center. that's a joke. just because you always say it doesn't make it true. and i hope the bad rebounding sf is tim thomas and not shawn marion you are talking about. but if it is, why do you keep leaving out marion? it's not like nash is leading a team of bad players and making them all great. the role players are all pretty much shooting the same percentages this season as they have in the past.


Boris Diaw played plenty of Center for the Suns this year. He also played quite a bit of PF for us as well. Which made him extremely undersized. Only a PG that was truely able to maximize Boris' advantages at those positions could have made it work... thankfully Nash runs the floor better than anyone and he did just that. 



> the suns "post" players are quicker than the guys on other teams. they shoot better from the outside. they pass better. this helps nash and his numbers. when the other team's big men have to step out to the perimeter to guard quicker players, that creates easier assist opportunities and bigger lanes to drive and pass through. this helps nash. it hurts the suns on defense. nash isn't good on defense. and it definitely isn't nash's fault if his team gets abused in the post. so it helps nash on offense and doesn't hurt nash on defense. are you saying that doesn't help nash?


What I'm saying is despite the Suns getting abused in the post all the time they still manage to win. No easy feat at all. They also go to the line the least amount of times in NBA history because of their lack of a post player... yet still won 54 games. You don't think that's impressive?



> but really none of this means anything. nash is a great player right now. he is a valuable player. but he isn't more valuable or better than lebron and kobe. we can argue nash all day for 3rd place along with dirk if you want, but he just doesn't belong in the mvp discussion with the years lebron and kobe have had.


Yeah he does... thankfully for me... I have a large majority of the real voters on my side.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*Re: Nash will join the ranks of legends...*



P-Dub34 said:


> The only guys that deserve MVP, in my opinion, are Dirk, James, and Bryant.


Bingo. If little Steven gets it again he will be the worst defensive player that ever won one as well. BJ Armstrong said it best--the writers shouldn't be voting on MVP since they don't know what it takes to make one. Its all good though. Let Nash shine his sterling MvP while at home playing soccer with the kids. Kobe & the Lakers will make sure of that.


----------

