# The race to be the worst thread.....



## Rick2583

30) Milwaukee Bucks...............13-56
29) Philadelphia 76ers..............15-55......1 1/2
28) Orlando Magic...................19-51......5 1/2
27) L.A. Lakers.......................22-46......9 1/2
26) Boston Celtics...................23-47......9 1/2
25) Utah Jazz.........................23-47......9 1/2
24) Sacramento Kings..............24-45.......11


GAMES REMAINING
---------------------------

Celtics..............(12) 5 home - 7 away...........Above & below 500 = 6-6
Lakers..............(14) 8 home - 6 away...........Above & below 500 = 9-5
Jazz.................(12) 7 home - 5 away...........Above & below 500 = 7-5
Kings................(13) 7 home - 6 away...........Above & below 500 = 9-4


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## RollWithEm

Looks like the Kings and Lakers have tougher schedules than @E.H. Munro led us to believe. This should come down to the wire.


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## Rick2583

RollWithEm said:


> Looks like the Kings and Lakers have tougher schedules than @E.H. Munro led us to believe. This should come down to the wire.



I printed the home & away remaining games & how many above & below 500 teams each team had left but for some reason it didn't post. But yeah the Lakers & Kings do have the tougher schedules.


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## RollWithEm

Fixed.


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## Rick2583

RollWithEm said:


> Fixed.



Thank you sir. You're a gentleman & a scholar. Well, one out of two ain't bad.


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## R-Star

One out of two?

A gentleman _or_ a scholar?


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## Basel

The Sixers have lost 24 in a row and the Bucks still have a worse record. :laugh:


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## Rick2583

Basel said:


> The Sixers have lost 24 in a row and the Bucks still have a worse record. :laugh:



Since the streak started..............


Philadelphia..................0-24
Milwaukee....................5-19

Hard to believe going 0-24 & you only pick up 5 games.


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## roux

Rick2583 said:


> Since the streak started..............
> 
> 
> Philadelphia..................0-24
> Milwaukee....................5-19
> 
> Hard to believe going 0-24 & you only pick up 5 games.


They will pass us, the Bucks are actually trying to win games which is just plain sad at this point.


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## E.H. Munro

RollWithEm said:


> Looks like the Kings and Lakers have tougher schedules than E.H. Munro led us to believe. This should come down to the wire.


And yet today they both have free wins to make up for Boston's win over the Heat's NBDL team.



roux said:


> They will pass us, the Bucks are actually trying to win games which is just plain sad at this point.


Have faith, your team _really_ sucks. Also, as shamelessly as Philly's behaved this year, in giving away decent NBA players for nothing, I'm hopeful that they get iced out of the lottery.


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## Rick2583

E.H. Munro said:


> And yet today they both have free wins to make up for Boston's win over the Heat's NBDL team.
> 
> 
> 
> Have faith, your team _really_ sucks. Also, as shamelessly as Philly's behaved this year, in giving away decent NBA players for nothing, I'm hopeful that they get iced out of the lottery.



Munro I don't know why the commishoner didn't step in here to prevent the owners of the 6ers from just butchering that franchise. I mean Evan Turner for Danny Granger only to waive Granger. Spencer Hawes to Cleveland for Earl Clark only to waive Clark. So right there Turner & Hawes were basically given away for nothing. And then Jrue Holiday to N.O. for last years injured pick (6th over-all) Nerlens Noel & a 2014 1st round pick. So that's pretty much another dump.

So yeah I'm hoping they get totally screwed in the draft. As fans they should boycot the final 12 games.


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## E.H. Munro

Jrue Holiday for two lottery picks is an easily justifiable trade. I like Holiday and all, but he's an above average player, so they got way more than his worth. But Hawes and Turner for nothing? That's shameless.


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## Rick2583

E.H. Munro said:


> Jrue Holiday for two lottery picks is an easily justifiable trade. I like Holiday and all, but he's an above average player, so they got way more than his worth. But Hawes and Turner for nothing? That's shameless.



Regarding Holiday I'd say he's WELL above average for a 23 year old who's only going to get better. He averaged 18/8 last year for Philly. Unless N'O. pick is in the top 12 or so I don't see it amounting to much. And Noel has been out all year. Whats wrong with him & how serious is it?


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## E.H. Munro

Holiday is above average now, and probably close to his ceiling. Yes, he isn't worth two lottery picks. Especially when this year's lottery gives Philly a realistic shot at a decent player late lottery and they may have a better PG than Holiday on the roster anyway.


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## Rick2583

E.H. Munro said:


> Holiday is above average now, and probably close to his ceiling. Yes, he isn't worth two lottery picks. Especially when this year's lottery gives Philly a realistic shot at a decent player late lottery and they may have a better PG than Holiday on the roster anyway.



With all due respect I'd never say a 23 year old athlete is near his ceiling so we may have to rehash this in another 2-3 years. BTW: do you know whats going on with Noel?


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## E.H. Munro

Michael Carter-Williams is already near as good as Holiday. And he's a rookie. Long term he's the better player. So getting two lottery picks for a scoring point guard with shooting issues is definitely selling high. Boston can't even get one lottery pick for Rondo.

As for Noel, he blew out his knee during his freshman year at Kentucky. Philly has been ultra cautious and has him working on filling out while rehabbing. He weighed around 210 at the time of the draft, so he needs the extra size.


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## Rick2583

Good news, BOTH the Lakers & the Kings won.


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## Rick2583

E.H. Munro said:


> Michael Carter-Williams is already near as good as Holiday. And he's a rookie. Long term he's the better player. So getting two lottery picks for a scoring point guard with shooting issues is definitely selling high. Boston can't even get one lottery pick for Rondo.
> 
> As for Noel, he blew out his knee during his freshman year at Kentucky. Philly has been ultra cautious and has him working on filling out while rehabbing. He weighed around 210 at the time of the draft, so he needs the extra size.



I also like Williams game but DAMN! he seriously needs to improve on his shooting. Less then 40% from the field (26% from 3) & not even 70% from the foul line. & I believe he & Holiday are only a year apart. But, like Holiday....he's only going to get better.


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## Bogg

Rick2583 said:


> Good news, BOTH the Lakers & the Kings won.


Tied with Utah for fourth, Lakers sitting a half-game back (same number of wins, one less loss) in sixth, Sacramento with a two-win cushion back in seventh. Detroit is looking like it's going to end up eighth and keep their pick, unless someone jumps them in the lottery.


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## RollWithEm

If Utah could somehow beat Detroit tonight, it would be huge for the C's.


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> If Utah could somehow beat Detroit tonight, it would be huge for the C's.


I don't think it's a "somehow" situation. If Drummond is still missing time because of his neck injury, Utah's probably the flat-out better team. I may watch and root for the Jazz.


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## Rick2583

Bogg said:


> I don't think it's a "somehow" situation. If Drummond is still missing time because of his neck injury, Utah's probably the flat-out better team. I may watch and root for the Jazz.




Update 3/27.................

#30 Bucks............13-58
#29 76ers............,15-56....2
#28 Magic............20-52....6 1/2
#27 Jazz..............23-49....9 1/2
#26 Celtics...........23-48....10
#25 Lakers...........24-46.....11 1/2
#24 Kings.............25-46.....12
#23 Pistons..........26-45......13


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## Rick2583

Update through April 4th. All teams have 6 games remaining.....


30) Milw.............14-62......... _..........4-H, 2-A
29) Phila.............17-59........3............2-H, 4-A
28) Orl................21-55........7...........4-H, 2-A
27) Bost.............23-53.........9...........2-H, 4-A
26) Utah.............24-52........10..........3-H, 3-A
25) LAL...............25-51........11..........3-H, 3-A
24) Sac...............27-49........13..........4-H, 2-A
23) Det...............27-49........13...........2-H, 4-A


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## Bogg

I'd really, really love if the standings could just stay as-is through the last 6 games. Being slotted 4th in the lottery was really the best-case scenario for Boston when the end of the season started to be in sight.


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## Rick2583

Bogg said:


> I'd really, really love if the standings could just stay as-is through the last 6 games. Being slotted 4th in the lottery was really the best-case scenario for Boston when the end of the season started to be in sight.



Unfortunately Bogg, the remaining 6 games may result in a couple of wins considering our opponents.....

At Detroit
At Atlanta
Home for Charlotte
At Cleveland
At Philadelphia
Home for Washington


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## Floods

4's not great. 3 would mean that we can only be pushed back as far as the 6th pick. There's a drop-off once you get past Embiid, Wiggins, Parker, Exum, Smart, and Randle. Picking at 6 or higher means we can get one of those guys (though I'd prefer not to be stuck with Randle aka the next Carlos Boozer). Being pushed back to 7 (or 8) would mean drafting a stiff like Vonleh or Harris or that white guy whose name I'm forgetting.


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## Rick2583

Floods said:


> 4's not great. 3 would mean that we can only be pushed back as far as the 6th pick. There's a drop-off once you get past Embiid, Wiggins, Parker, Exum, Smart, and Randle. Picking at 6 or higher means we can get one of those guys (though I'd prefer not to be stuck with Randle aka the next Carlos Boozer). Being pushed back to 7 (or 8) would mean drafting a stiff like Vonleh or Harris or that white guy whose name I'm forgetting.



You're probably talking about McDermott the #1 scorer in the nation. And one of the best over-all shooters I've seen in a long time. Also not to bad off the glass. BUT........so was some guy name Morrison & look how he ended up.


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## Floods

Exactly, McDermott and Morrison are guys who shoot and do very little if anything else. Guys with that skillset are abundant in the second round so why blow a first rounder on them?


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## Rick2583

Floods said:


> Exactly, McDermott and Morrison are guys who shoot and do very little if anything else. Guys with that skillset are abundant in the second round so why blow a first rounder on them?



Floods I've got to disagree with your assessment that there's an *abundance* of guys with his skill set. I mean how many 6'8 guys in this draft shoot 53 from the field, 45 from 3 & 86 from the FT line & can also rebound?. He's got a great catch & release & he does it with accuracy. I don't know, not trying to make comparisons here or to say he'll ever come close to there careers but this kid has a little Bird / Norwitski in his game. I like him.


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## Floods

Who cares? McDermott will not rebound at the NBA level. He can't defend. All he does is shoot. He's Kyle Korver (or Steve Novak). Guys like that can be had much later on.

Top draft picks should be used on all-around guys, or at the very least on guys who are scorers as opposed to merely shooters.


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## Rick2583

Floods said:


> Who cares? McDermott will not rebound at the NBA level. He can't defend. All he does is shoot. He's Kyle Korver (or Steve Novak). Guys like that can be had much later on.
> 
> Top draft picks should be used on all-around guys, or at the very least on guys who are scorers as opposed to merely shooters.



Players who shoot with his acuracy ARE scorers. He also moves extremely well without the ball. And as far as finding guys like THAT much later on, like who? name one. And using the pick for all around guys I honestly don't see any of the picks that fit that criteria. JMO.


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## Floods

No, scorers are guys who can score reliably in many different ways, not just from camping behind the three point line and hoping the defense forgets about them. Bird was a scorer. Nowitzki is a scorer. Ray Allen is (or used to be) a scorer. The impact of those guys wasn't just limited to scoring, either. McDermott, Novak, and Korver and friends are one-dimensional shooters who are total liabilities when they're unable to get open behind the arc.

I can't name one off the top of my head. Because they don't matter. Random 3-ball shooters drift in and out of this league all the time.


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## Rick2583

Floods said:


> No, scorers are guys who can score reliably in many different ways, not just from camping behind the three point line and hoping the defense forgets about them. Bird was a scorer. Nowitzki is a scorer. Ray Allen is (or used to be) a scorer. The impact of those guys wasn't just limited to scoring, either. McDermott, Novak, and Korver and friends are one-dimensional shooters who are total liabilities when they're unable to get open behind the arc.
> 
> I can't name one off the top of my head. Because they don't matter. Random 3-ball shooters drift in and out of this league all the time.



Korver who came from the same college as McDermott & Novak never put up the kind of numbers in college like McDermott has. Both Korver & Novack are basically 3 point specialist. To think that all McDermott does is camp out from the 3 you've obviously never seen him play. You also apparently missed the part where I said he moves extremely well without the ball. So much for CAMPING OUT. Defensively yes I agree that is the weakest part of his game. But he also gets to a lot of loose balls & has a pretty decent inside game. Both of which also kill the CAMPING OUT theory.

Look, I'm not saying I would take him above guys like Parker or Embriid but I honestly think he'll go in the top dozen. Again, JMO. And for the record considering what he does to find an open shot, he most DEFINITELY is a scorer.


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## roux

Novak went to Marquette


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## Floods

Rick2583 said:


> Korver who came from the same college as McDermott & Novak never put up the kind of numbers in college like McDermott has. Both Korver & Novack are basically 3 point specialist. To think that all McDermott does is camp out from the 3 you've obviously never seen him play. You also apparently missed the part where I said he moves extremely well without the ball. So much for CAMPING OUT. Defensively yes I agree that is the weakest part of his game. But he also gets to a lot of loose balls & has a pretty decent inside game. Both of which also kill the CAMPING OUT theory.


Oh you got to be shitting me. You don't think being a one-dimensional three point shooter by _definition_ entails being able to move without the ball? Do better. McDermott has no usable inside game at the NBA level, I don't care what he's doing at ****ing Creighton. I don't care about his ability to get to loose balls, either. If you draft someone in the lottery because they can "get to a lot of loose balls" then you chose poorly.

Oh, and nothing about your loose balls quip kills the "CAMPING OUT" theory. Try again.



> Look, I'm not saying I would take him above guys like Parker or Embriid but I honestly think he'll go in the top dozen. Again, JMO. And for the record considering what he does to find an open shot, he most DEFINITELY is a scorer.


He will go in the top dozen, probably to Detroit, Cleveland, Atlanta, or Minnesota, because those teams are run by dickheads. Same reason Noah Vonleh will go somewhere from 6-9 because UPSIDE! even though he has athleticism and literally nothing else working for him at the pro level.


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## Bogg

Floods said:


> 4's not great. 3 would mean that we can only be pushed back as far as the 6th pick. There's a drop-off once you get past Embiid, Wiggins, Parker, Exum, Smart, and Randle. Picking at 6 or higher means we can get one of those guys (though I'd prefer not to be stuck with Randle aka the next Carlos Boozer). Being pushed back to 7 (or 8) would mean drafting a stiff like Vonleh or Harris or that white guy whose name I'm forgetting.


You're forgetting Aaron Gordon - he looks like the next guy in line for the Marion/Kirilenko stat-stuffer group. At any rate, the likelihood of dropping all the way to 7 from the 4th spot is literally 1%, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm not exactly terrified of the possibility. 



Floods said:


> Exactly, McDermott and Morrison are guys who shoot and do very little if anything else. Guys with that skillset are abundant in the second round so why blow a first rounder on them?


EH will be in shortly to explain that Morrison was never really all that great of a shooter, unlike McDermott.


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## Rick2583

roux said:


> Novak went to Marquette



I know, I said Korver went to the same school (Creighton) as McDermont.

But looking at it I could see where you thought I was saying both of them. Sorry about that.


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## roux

Rick2583 said:


> I know, I said Korver went to the same school (Creighton) as McDermont.


Sure enough you did, i misread it


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## Diable

McDermott is a very good offensive basketball player, he has the ability to score and to help other people score. He would be very good in a heavy P&R offense with a good PG. D'antoni would run the wheels off him. The trouble with him is that what you see is probably a finished product. He's going to be a good NBA player, not a great one IMO. 

He will be able to score anywhere and that's going to keep him in the league for 10 years if he stays healthy.


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## Rick2583

Diable said:


> McDermott is a very good offensive basketball player, he has the ability to score and to help other people score. He would be very good in a heavy P&R offense with a good PG. D'antoni would run the wheels off him. The trouble with him is that what you see is probably a finished product. He's going to be a good NBA player, not a great one IMO.
> 
> He will be able to score anywhere and that's going to keep him in the league for 10 years if he stays healthy.



Thank you. My point exactly. For a minute I thought this was going to turn into an all day pissing contest.


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## Floods

Please tell me more about how getting to loose balls justifies a lottery pick.


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## Rick2583

Floods said:


> Please tell me more about how getting to loose balls justifies a lottery pick.



Floods c'mon seriously, with all due respect WHERE did I say that McDermott should be drafted ONLY because he can get to loose balls. If you're going to quote me at least be accurate.


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## Floods

Where did _I_ say "only"?


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## Rick2583

Floods said:


> Where did _I_ say "only"?



Because of all the points I mentioned about his game that's the only one you brought up about him being drafted.

Did this really need explaining?


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## Floods

Well there was more stuff but instead of responding to it you decided to piggyback on Diable instead.


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## Rick2583

Floods said:


> Well there was more stuff but instead of responding to it you decided to piggyback on Diable instead.


 Flood I'm not going to continue this "My dad can beat up your dad" bullshit. You have a good afternoon.


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## E.H. Munro

Rick2583 said:


> I know, I said Korver went to the same school (Creighton) as McDermont.
> 
> But looking at it I could see where you thought I was saying both of them. Sorry about that.


Commas, or emdashes, are your friend.



Bogg said:


> You're forgetting Aaron Gordon - he looks like the next guy in line for the Marion/Kirilenko stat-stuffer group. At any rate, the likelihood of dropping all the way to 7 from the 4th spot is literally 1%, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm not exactly terrified of the possibility.


Yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled if the reward for this year of horrific basketball were Aaron Gordon, and that would be likely be the end of the quick reload hopes, but he's going to be a _very good_ NBA player. Pretty much the anti-Jeff Green of swing forwards.



Bogg said:


> EH will be in shortly to explain that Morrison was never really all that great of a shooter, unlike McDermott.


I mean, seriously, Morrison was a .368 shooter from three point land at Gonzaga, and shot an eFG% of .552 at the collegiate level. By comparison McDermott's shooting line was .458/.616. Because Morrison wasn't much of a distance shooter (he really had only one above average shooting season from the college three point line, where he essentially shot them as well as the 18 year old McDermott) Gonzaga ran a slagpile of double and triple screens to get him shooting space. Something that was never going to happen in the NBA.



Diable said:


> McDermott is a very good offensive basketball player, he has the ability to score and to help other people score. He would be very good in a heavy P&R offense with a good PG. D'antoni would run the wheels off him. The trouble with him is that what you see is probably a finished product. He's going to be a good NBA player, not a great one IMO.
> 
> He will be able to score anywhere and that's going to keep him in the league for 10 years if he stays healthy.


At the NBA level I'm not sure a lot of his offensive game translates. I think he's probably best suited for swing forward off the bench. I can't see his face up game working against starting-level NBA PFs, and against starting SFs he may give up more points than you'd ever recover letting him post them up. But I do think he'll be around for a long time because he can shoot the shit out of the ball.


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## Rick2583

Boston up by 13 early 3rd. With Rondo on the bench. Didn't these guys get the memo. Lets go Detroit, wake up.


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## Bogg

Rick2583 said:


> Boston up by 13 early 3rd. With Rondo on the bench. Didn't these guys get the memo. Lets go Detroit, wake up.


It was always going to be really tough to lose to both Philly and Detroit. Getting a split is probably a win, in a perverse, tank-y kind of way.


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## Rick2583

Bogg said:


> It was always going to be really tough to lose to both Philly and Detroit. Getting a split is probably a win, in a perverse, tank-y kind of way.



In all my 50+ years of following this team this is only the 2nd time I've rooted for them to lose. The other time was I think 96 when I wanted to see the Celtics get Duncan.


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## E.H. Munro

Pissed Ons and Boston trading the lead.


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## Rick2583

E.H. Munro said:


> Pissed Ons and Boston trading the lead.



And Orlando lost. If the Celtics lose were only a game behind the Magic for #3


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## E.H. Munro

The Pistons have taken the lead with less than a minute left.


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## Rick2583

E.H. Munro said:


> The Pistons have taken the lead with less than a minute left.




Pistons win by 4


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## Rick2583

Standings update through 4 / 9 / 14


Bucks.................14-64
76ers..................17-61
Celtics................23-55
Magic.................23-55
Lakers................25-53
Jazz...................24-54


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## E.H. Munro

It's a race to #3! Actually I think there's a real chance that Orlando, Boston, and Utah all finish with 24 wins.


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## Rick2583

E.H. Munro said:


> It's a race to #3! Actually I think there's a real chance that Orlando, Boston, and Utah all finish with 24 wins.



If that does happen who would be the official #3?


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## Bogg

Rick2583 said:


> If that does happen who would be the official #3?


The lottery combinations would be split evenly between the three of them (they'd each get a share of the sum of the combinations for 3, 4, and 5 split three ways) and in the event that two or more of those teams don't win the lottery for any of the top three picks a coin flip is used to determine draft order.


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## Rick2583

Going into the final game..................


1) Bucks.......................15-66
2) 76ers.......................18-63....3
3) Magic.......................23-58....8
4) Jazz.........................24-57....9
5) Celtics......................25-56...10
6) Lakers......................26-55...11


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## RollWithEm

Rick2583 said:


> Going into the final game..................
> 
> 
> 1) Bucks.......................15-66
> 2) 76ers.......................18-63....3
> 3) Magic.......................23-58....8
> 4) Jazz.........................24-57....9
> 5) Celtics......................25-56...10
> 6) Lakers......................26-55...11


If this was KVBL, the Lakers would be in the poll position.


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## Rick2583

RollWithEm said:


> If this was KVBL, the Lakers would be in the poll position.



Without appearing to ignorant, I have no idea what that means.


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## RollWithEm

Rick2583 said:


> Without appearing to ignorant, I have no idea what that means.


KVBL is a SIM league that a bunch of us on this site participate in. The running joke there is that the 6th worst team "always" wins the lottery.


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## Rick2583

RollWithEm said:


> KVBL is a SIM league that a bunch of us on this site participate in. The running joke there is that the 6th worst team "always" wins the lottery.



Okay got ya. But if the Celtics lose there last game & the Jazz are foolish enough to win then the'll be a tie for the 4th worst record.


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## Rick2583

IT'S OFFICIAL.....The Celtics end up with the 4th worst record tied with Utah who won tonight.

Bucks.................15-67
76ers..................19-63
Magic.................23-59
Celtics................25-57
Jazz...................25-57


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## E.H. Munro

Now all they have to do is finish the year with the #1 pick.


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## Rick2583

E.H. Munro said:


> Now all they have to do is finish the year with the #1 pick.



From your mouth to Gods ears.


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## Bogg

Jazz did the Celts a big favor going all-out to win in double overtime. Tied for fourth is really about as good as could have been hoped for back at the all-star break, so I'll absolutely take it even though the back-to-back wins in April were unnecessary.


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