# Etan Thomas



## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

The Bucks appear to be interested at about 6yr/$37million.

This is a tough call. Thoughts, anyone?


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

6 million a year for Etan Thomas is pretty hefty but by the way this offseason has been going I am not surprised. He is a very good shot blocker and rebounder and is good on defense as well. From what I have seen his offense game is somewhat limited but he would be a good acquisition for the Bucks. I'm interested to see if the Wizards would match or not.


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## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

Unless we are interested in signing one of the other free agents out there, at 6 mil a year i think he will get resigned. It's not like he's getting any worse.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I say they can have him. That's $6.2 million per season, which would make Etan the third highest paid player on our team (per average). Considering that he's just a backup center for us, and I don't care to pay that kind of money.

I've always considered us a mostly smart team when it comes to spending money, and this just doesn't seem like a smart idea when we have two other perfectly capable big men in Haywood and Kwame who will also need contracts after next season. Take the $6.2 million saved and split that onto to the contracts of the other two next season to persuade them to stay.

As long as we can have Ramos come over this season and give us a good 12 minutes per game, I'm perfectly fine with our center situation without Etan. Haywood can play 24 minutes as the starter, and Kwame and Ramos can each cover half of the remaining 24 minutes. Heck, with some luck, we could get 28 MPG out of Haywood and 14-20 out of Ramos and Kwame would barely need to cover the spot at all.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

I really think we have to consider matching this. I kinda feel like MJG on this one thats alot of coin for a guy we're gonna be platooning with Haywood. But consider this the Bucks as I see it are gonna be our main competition this season. I think Etan is an improvement on Skinner whom they lost in fa. From a competitve standpoint I would match this contract I can't let a conference rival steal away a big man . 

Etan can block shots and score inside with tough play. But he has no lateral quickness and he covers the whole paint leaving little room for a pf to play with him down low. His hands are suspect and he struggles sometimes with bigger players and against quicker players. 

Kwame I'd imagine would drive right by him if they matched up. 


As I'm thinking about this I don't know. We don't have a proven replacement for him. 

Then again with Kwame and Haywood coming up next season. 

Our frontline could be really costly. 

The Market right now is outta control. 

I thought I knew now I don't.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

It's as simple as this-

I don't think we can afford to pay Etan that much.

Next season we have to resign Kwame, Haywood, and maybe Hughes.

If your paying Etan that much, your going to have to pay Haywood that much if not more.

If Kwame has a good season, he's going to get Boozer type money.

With a Max player like Jamison at SF, I have no idea how we could possibly afford a frontcourt where Kwame may also get near the Max and Etan/Haywood are both getting tons of dough.

Etan would really mess up our cap situation, and at the end of the day, he is a backup on our team. 6 years is way too much for Etan, for all we know Ramos could be better than him in 2 years.

I say let him go. If you look at 82games.com the team was -5 with Etan on the floor and +5 with Haywood on the floor.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> It's as simple as this-
> 
> I don't think we can afford to pay Etan that much.
> ...


I could be convinced to this line of thinking.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

I hate to say it but I am thinking we would have to let him go at that amount as well. Ideally, I would love to keep him around for about $4million per. Right now, in this environment of GM insanity, that is impossible.

We can not afford to tie ourselves up, and risk being hamstrung when it comes time to reup Kwame and Haywood, who both have a lot more value than Etan.

However, with that being said, will Etan be our next Ben Wallace mistake? Not likely.


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## bdiggi12 (Jul 8, 2004)

I would much rather keep Etan then Haywood, Haywood is a legit seven footer, but plays soft. Etan is a aggresive and tenacious player. He is what the wizards need in the middle with all the finesse and scoring players we have in the starting lineup.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> I hate to say it but I am thinking we would have to let him go at that amount as well. Ideally, I would love to keep him around for about $4million per. Right now, in this environment of GM insanity, that is impossible.
> 
> We can not afford to tie ourselves up, and risk being hamstrung when it comes time to reup Kwame and Haywood, who both have a lot more value than Etan.
> ...


I agree on all points. $4 million was the number I picked out as the max I'd really want to pay him per season at the beginning of the offseason, and that hasn't really changed now. It's certainly not worth going over that number if there's any chance it could jeapordize retaining our guys next season. I'm also with you that I don't think he's another Ben Wallace. He could very well prove to be worth his contract, but I can't picture him taking the all-defensive team by storm.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> 
> I agree on all points. $4 million was the number I picked out as the max I'd really want to pay him per season at the beginning of the offseason, and that hasn't really changed now. It's certainly not worth going over that number if there's any chance it could jeapordize retaining our guys next season. I'm also with you that I don't think he's another Ben Wallace. He could very well prove to be worth his contract, but I can't picture him taking the all-defensive team by storm.


I feel what both of you are saying but consider this. Etan got about 8 and what almost 7 as a back-up. 

If he plays 35-40 minutes a night Etan could get 15 and 10 easily on a team where he'd be the primary post guy. Plus 2.5 blks. 

I don't think Ben Wallace but he could be a level lower. 

I hate that we have to consider money because if money was no factor I'd keep Etan all the way. 

If this offer is real and I'm assuming it is. 

We gotta let Etan go. 

But there is alot of dread in letting him go alot. 

I will no longer question why so many NBA people are getting fired because they are paying back-ups 30 and 40 million dollars. Back-ups who haven't done a whole helluva lot in this league. 

We should now look to Keon Clarke.


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## bdiggi12 (Jul 8, 2004)

forget dampier, forget keon, and forget pansy *** haywood, Etan should be signed and start at center, hands down


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## bdiggi12 (Jul 8, 2004)

i mean carlos boozer just got 68 mil, with the proper minutes i def think that etan could put up the same numbers boozer put up last year


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Etan is a freaking blackhole that is faux tough.

There, I said it, and it is the truth. His points come becuase he shoots the ball, every freaking time. He is faux tough, meaning he does not do the little things at the end of the game that are required to win. He may have had one game last year where he played real trough down the stretch, but every other time he is weak. He gets set on defense way too often, and his gambles off the ball for blocks cost us at least 1 game last year.

I prefer Haywood and Keon to Etan.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> Etan is a freaking blackhole that is faux tough.
> 
> There, I said it, and it is the truth. His points come becuase he shoots the ball, every freaking time. He is faux tough, meaning he does not do the little things at the end of the game that are required to win. He may have had one game last year where he played real trough down the stretch, but every other time he is weak. He gets set on defense way too often, and his gambles off the ball for blocks cost us at least 1 game last year.
> ...



I agree. 

Etan never passes took him a whole season to get an assist. 

I agree the play in New York where he went for the shot block at the end of the game and got outta rebounding postion and caused the offensive rebound is an example of what you're talking about.

I actually prefer Haywood to and couldn't understand why EJ always pulled Haywood when he was playing well for Etan. EJ liked Etan because he used to hang on the rim and do pull ups getting sucked in by the faux emotion ( I like that word faux) 

Like Bill Walton says never confuse activity for acheivement that desecribes Etan perfectly. 

We would really be losing some of our depth. Which Ramos or Clarke as a signing could replace. 

Etan is a black hole.


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## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

The only reason I think we should keep Etan is because he is an agressive player, but whats his career high in assists? 1?


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## bdiggi12 (Jul 8, 2004)

i love etan and would like to kiss him


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## bdiggi12 (Jul 8, 2004)

why do u guys care about assist hes a center, not a pg, how many assists does ben wallace average?


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bdiggi12</b>!
> why do u guys care about assist hes a center, not a pg, how many assists does ben wallace average?


It's not the assist numbers that matter so much as the fact that he doesn't pass. When he gets the ball, you know you're getting a shot. Even if he does decide to pass, he's very mediocre at it. A post player needs to be able to pass out of double teams and catch the cutters and find the open three point shooters and so on.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> 
> It's not the assist numbers that matter so much as the fact that he doesn't pass. When he gets the ball, you know you're getting a shot. Even if he does decide to pass, he's very mediocre at it. A post player needs to be able to pass out of double teams and catch the cutters and find the open three point shooters and so on.


Etan has never been double teamed. Kwame started getting the double consistently last year, while Etan jacked it up over his guy.


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## bdiggi12 (Jul 8, 2004)

thats true, but it isnt essential, ben wallace isnt known for his pasing skills, and hes a beast. Plus like ben wallace, etan doesnt have many plays drawn out for, so he doesnt recieve the ball in the post where he gets the double team. Most of his baskets come from hustle points and put backs. 
So lets focus on what the position etan plays entails: rebounds and blocks and scoring, he can do these both, better then haywood or keon. 
Im telling you, if etan signs somewhere were he starts and gets significant minutes, he will post good numbers and the wizards are going to regret it.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bdiggi12</b>!
> thats true, but it isnt essential, ben wallace isnt known for his pasing skills, and hes a beast. Plus like ben wallace, etan doesnt have many plays drawn out for, so he doesnt recieve the ball in the post where he gets the double team. Most of his baskets come from hustle points and put backs.
> So lets focus on what the position etan plays entails: rebounds and blocks and scoring, he can do these both, better then haywood or keon.
> Im telling you, if etan signs somewhere were he starts and gets significant minutes, he will post good numbers and the wizards are going to regret it.


1st off lets stop comparing Etan to Ben Wallace. He's not. 

You must have not been watching last season when Etan was a starter for about a dozen games he had his big chance and what did he do nothing. Against the other teams starters he was not productive. He was turning over the ball because of his bad hands, he wasn't bullying some poor back-up he was getting out quicked to rebounds and he was getting blocked at the rim by bigger players. 

Haywood then took his starting spot back. I couldn't see a scenario where Ben Wallace would be sitting behind Haywood. 

Haywood while you may not like him was productive in the minutes he played last season. He is longer can switch off and contest the pick and roll effectively something Etan does terribly and Haywood finally developed some offense. He found a hook and a jumper. 

The thing I like about Haywood was his versatility. He can guard athletic 4's. He locked into j O'Neal last season, Brand and Tim Duncan at different times and did a really good job. he had the length and most important the lateral quickness to keep them from beating him with quick moves. 

Haywood locked into Bosh also. What that gives us is 2 good defenders in the post with he and Kwame with the ability to switch off if either got in foul trouble. 

Etan is primarily a center he struggles against guys like JO, Brand, Bosh, and Duncan because of their 1st steps Haywood didn't. So we could save Kwame's game for offense while Haywood could switch on the better offensive players.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

David Aldridge is on the Sports Reporters right now for the next couple of hours. He already has said that the Wizards will definitely match the Bucks offer. It is just insanity.


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## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

disregard my previous comments, signing etan would be a mistake, we need to sign kwame, haywood and hughes next season and signing etan just makes it harder. I just don't see why we really need him, why the heck should we pay a backup more than 3 of our starters (maybe i'm wrong but at least 2 of our starters)? 

He's a good player, but this contract is too much of a joke, i'd rather let him go to the bucks.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> David Aldridge is on the Sports Reporters right now for the next couple of hours. He already has said that the Wizards will definitely match the Bucks offer. It is just insanity.


I guess if management is willing to open up the wallet a little bit (IE this doesn't effect us signing Kwame or Haywood next offseason), then it isn't so awful. Though if I read a single sentence next offseason about how we couldn't offer either quite what we wanted because we signed Etan this summer to a fat contract, I'll be livid. 

$6.2 million a year is still a whole heck of a lot for a backup center though.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

This is stupid. Some times you have to let go. Overpaying for player usually don't take long to regret. Like Boozer getting his contract. Utah is gonna realize real soon that overpaying for Boozer and Okur is gonna hurt .

Etan isn't worth 6 mill hell he might not be worth half of that. 

This overspending is gonna hurt the league in the long run. The league has already become a cable tv sport basically.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

If we do this we're about to join the teams who have greatly overpaid.

I hugely agree with the thought that Etan is a blackhole. I've seen have nowhere to go and he still throws up a wild hook shot.

He is also a very dumb player at the end of games. At the end of a Knicks game the Wizards were down 2 with 10 seconds to go. One of our players misses a shot, and Dikembe Mutumbo gets the rebound. The smart thing to do would be to foul Mutumbo since he's a bad ft shooter, so what does Etan do? He runs down the court in in the other direction while Blake has to chase down Mutumbo and foul him wasting 8 seconds and leaving 2 seconds left in the game. Little, stupid things like that are why Etan is not worth 6 million.

Next season when we resign Haywood and Kwame we're going to be in salary cap hell with Etan off the bench making huge money. We better make the playoffs this season or we're going to be screwed next off-season when we have all these highly paid players and nothing to show for it.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

ESPN Reports on the Subject

Bucks offer between $37-39 million over 6 years, with the deal being front-loaded as to scare us off of matching. As far as matching goes, this was said: "Wizards GM Ernie Grunfeld told Insider on Friday that while he hadn't heard of an offer to Thomas, Washington likely would match any offer."


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Actually, if it's front loaded that's a good thing for us. We can afford to pay more now, and then he's a better deal down the road.

I'm on the fence... who else could we get? If we can sign up Swift or maybe even Greg Ostertag or Vlade Divac to a shorter term deal.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I have no clue how front-loaded contracts really work (I hadn't even heard of them before last year), but if there's some way we can give Etan a high payment next year and lower payments the rest of the way through, that'd probably be not quite as bad. Let's try an example, with the deal being at the middle ground of $38 million ...

1: $7.6 million ($30.4 million remaining)
2: $5.0 million ($25.4)
3: $5.6 ($19.8)
4: $6.1 ($13.7)
5: $6.6 ($7.1)
6: $7.1 ($0.0)

... compared to how it would look as a regular deal ...

1: $5.0 million ($33.0 million remaining)
2: $5.6 ($27.4)
3: $6.1 ($21.3)
4: $6.6 ($14.7)
5: $7.1 ($7.6)
6: $7.6 ($0.0)

Those are just sort of made up numbers, as I have no clue how things would work precisely. Basically, we'd give him the final and biggest year of his contract first, then work things normally from there. Something like what I outlined would save us $0.6 million each year after this year, which would cost us $2.6 million extra. That doesn't seem like that big a deal really, but maybe it'd be enough of a difference to the team.

As a side note, looking at those salaries laid out like that, that still seems like a boatload of money to be giving to Etan. Coming into the offseason I was thinking he'd be making that $5 million as the high year in his deal, not the low.


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## alchemist (Apr 11, 2003)

Some of you guys are thinking, man, if he becomes Big Ben, we're gonna regret it, so we should match. But that's the risk every team takes. We can't let past mistakes affect our judgment now. If Quentin Richardson blows up, the Clips will regret it, if Barry blows up, the Sonics will regret it. That's the risk.


I say let the Bucks have him. Etan was a very injured man, before this season. I don't think he's one of those energy players who changes a game, like Mark Madsen. When Madsen comes in, you know you're going to get some intensity. I don't feel that way with Etan. I think he only stands out to us because he is more aggressive than Haywood.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I have no clue how front-loaded contracts really work (I hadn't even heard of them before last year), but if there's some way we can give Etan a high payment next year and lower payments the rest of the way through, that'd probably be not quite as bad. Let's try an example, with the deal being at the middle ground of $38 million ...
> 
> 1: $7.6 million ($30.4 million remaining)
> ...


I think a frontloaded contract is a regular contract with a signing bonus. The signing bonus is due up front, but is prorated through the life of the contract. I am not sure how it works exactly, but I do not think it causes a player's salary cap to go up and down like that. I could be completely wrong on this, but I would think it would be similar to a buyout.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

jazzy mentioned this story, so I found it for others to read ...



> Washington Wizards restricted free agent Etan Thomas will visit the Milwaukee Bucks today and could be offered a contract that, <b>according to a source with knowledge of the situation, the Wizards would be unwilling to match.</b>
> <hr>The source said the Wizards and Thomas' representatives have had preliminary discussions concerning <b>a deal in the neighborhood of $16 million over the next four seasons.</b> However, according to the source, that number falls short of what Milwaukee is considering offering.
> <hr>Last season Thomas made $3.043 million with the Wizards and if they don't re-sign him the team could have $8 million to $9 million to pursue free agents the rest of the summer.


First of all, assuming the source is right, I'm very proud of our team. They made what I consider to be a more or less perfect offer for Etan, exactly what I would have given him. Second, we won't match it. I wish there was a way we could keep Etan, but at that price, that's wonderful news.

The key now is to not blow the $8-9 million on Dampier or whatever other "prize" FA is out there. Try splitting the money between Eric Williams and Bob Sura, or something to that effect.


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## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

The first step in being smart. Now lets see if they do the right thing by signing lower level vets then waste our money on Damp.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Just checking the Post today, and came across this on Etan ...


> In a phone interview this morning, Grunfeld said that the Wizards intend to review the offer once Thomas submits it.
> 
> "We like Etan very much but we have to take a look at what he's been offered," Grunfeld said.


There's really nothing else of note from the article, but that little tidbit may be worth noting. Looks like we won't just match willy nilly, but will actually really think about it. Grunfeld is a tricky guy though as some have noted, and I don't think we'd announce a match until the very last minute if we intend on doing it. So if we don't hear anything over the next week or week and a half, that probably won't mean anything.


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## IggytoWiz_at5 (Jun 5, 2004)

At least Thomas said he would like to be here. He said he likes the team, and area. He said he like Maryland rather than Virginia.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

No new info to report or anything, just reminding everyone that the deadline for us matching is the 29th, just four days away. Every time I read something about the situation from someone in the know, they say that they believe we'll match. We'll find out soon enough.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

What other options are there from this offseason if the Wizards let Etan go? Should they go after Swift of Mihm both of whom are restricted free agents? Or should they pick up some guy from summer league?


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## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

Well if we lose Etan we need a center, unless we want to rely on Kwame at center a lot more, in that case mihm would be good, i think memphis said they'd match anyones offer for swift. 

Anyone want to throw any names out there besides mihm as a power forward or center?


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