# How Far Can The Suns Make It?



## R-Star

How far do you think this team can go this year? Im looking at a second round exit this year. They have a very tallented young squad, lets break it down and look at each starter.

*Stephon Marbury* - Are people still laughing over the Marbury Kidd trade? I doubt it, and if they are, they should open their eyes. While Kidd is one of the best team players of all time IMO making whatever team he steps on just that much better by his selfless play, great baskeball IQ and of course passing ability. Marbury is plain and simple insant offence. Hes a threat from anywhere on the floor, and a great penatrator. Alot of people write him off as a SG faking the point. How this is still being said confuses me. Marbury is a top assist man in the league and still goes unnoticed for his passing skills. The whole Pheonix tempo changed when he came to the city, and when the young players around him grow and develop, he will look that much better.

* Joe Johnson * - I think he will start for the team this year at the very least by all star break. Im looking for Joe to post 12-15 ppg, 3-5 rpg and 3-4 apg, not bad for a guy going into his 3rd year. Wont be a huge impact player on the team, but is the 4th option behind Marbury, Marion and Stoudamire.

* Shawn Marion * - The teams stat stuffer. He gets you 20-10 night in and out, hes out there doing the hustle plays, grabing a couple steals here and there, and locking down the opposing teams top scorer. IMO the best SF in the L if you put Dirk and KG as PF's which they should be anyways. No team out there wouldnt want this guy on their roster.

* Amare Stoudamire * - Man child. This guy is just a physical monster. Considered a project when he was drafted, he proved his worth by grabing ROY and made a name for himself by bullying grown men who thought they were playing a "boy".
Although he has a limited game, his shear brute stength and determination to get to the rim make him one of the top young PF's out there, and a guy no one wants to face on a given night. The scary thing is hes only going to keep getting better.

* Jake Tsakalidis * - Is there a clear cut starter at the 5 for the Suns? Not that I see, but if it where up to me, the majority of the minutes would go to big Jake. He shows flashed of having the talent to be a pretty good big man in this league. No one expected big Jake to come in and be an impact player right off the bat. He needs time and consistent playing minutes. Although I dont see him getting the playing time he needs to break out this year. Look for Scot Williams to take significant minutes away from him. If any spot on the roster needs some retooling, this is definatley it.

Well, theres my take on the Suns SL. How far do you guys think they'll go this year? What do you think the SL should be? All comments and ideas welcome as always.


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## Amareca

I don't understand how people are calling Amare's game limited all the time or say he isn't a skilled player.

He has lots of moves and ways to get to the hoop, that's skill.

How many PFs in the league have you seen driving to the hoop while dribbling behind his back avoiding the PG who is going for the steal?

How many PFs in the league have you seen leading fastbreaks and making sweet bounce passes and stuff like that?

How many PFs in the league have you seen crossing over Tim Duncan succesfully various times even on the break.

During the season he made huge improvements on defensive positioning and passing out of double teams.

That doesn't sound like a limited or little skilled player like many of the general NBA fans want to believe.

The only thing he needs is to use his mid-range jumper so he can draw his defender further away from the basket and use his speed to get by him or knock down open jumpers all night long.

And this guy did all that with a dislocated toe, an injured toe and very limited vision on his left eye.


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## Arclite

I agree.. anyone who doesn't think Amare is skilled is just giving in to an unfortunate stereotype that he has inexplicably drawn.. That cross and dunk on the Twin Towers was just one of the plays that should have dispelled all myths about him lacking skill, but it didn't. Neither did the wrap-around bounce pass to Matrix on the break against the Wolves, or the perfectly thrown oop to Marbury against the Jazz, or even the up and under move that made Duncan jump out of his shoes in game 1.. People see how young and strong he is and assume he scores with his power and gets garbage points.. he does do that, but he does not have a limited game. In 3 years Amaregeddon will be a top 4 power forward in the league, and Phoenix will be battling with Houston and San Antonio for the #1 seed. 

How far can Phoenix go this year? Depends.. The top 4 teams in the west are stacked, but if we draw a 5 or 6 seed and play Minnesota, I like our chances to get to the second round. Otherwise it's going to be real tough.


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## R-Star

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> I agree.. anyone who doesn't think Amare is skilled is just giving in to an unfortunate stereotype that he has inexplicably drawn.. That cross and dunk on the Twin Towers was just one of the plays that should have dispelled all myths about him lacking skill, but it didn't. Neither did the wrap-around bounce pass to Matrix on the break against the Wolves, or the perfectly thrown oop to Marbury against the Jazz, or even the up and under move that made Duncan jump out of his shoes in game 1.. People see how young and strong he is and assume he scores with his power and gets garbage points.. he does do that, but he does not have a limited game. In 3 years Amaregeddon will be a top 4 power forward in the league, and Phoenix will be battling with Houston and San Antonio for the #1 seed.
> 
> How far can Phoenix go this year? Depends.. The top 4 teams in the west are stacked, but if we draw a 5 or 6 seed and play Minnesota, I like our chances to get to the second round. Otherwise it's going to be real tough.


I think you guys misunderstood. What was meant is that he doesnt have much offensive game outside 10 feet, which is fine since hes already so effective there. I know about Amares dribbling and passing game. I dont realy think he even needs to focus on a mid range game. Alot of physical giants just focus on an under the net game, I think he should do the same.


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## Muffin

What worries me about the Suns is that they only added 2 rookies to their roster so far this off-season and the other teams in the West have reloaded with All-Star type talent.

Not in any particular order...

1. Dallas - Although everyone will be fighting for ppg, and fantasy games will definitely be affected, adding Jainson and Fortson made the team better. ESPECIALLY Fortson. If given 30 min or more, he could lead the league in rpg! I doubt if Jiri see much playing time (unless an injury occurs), but he's not a bad pick-up either.

2. Lakers - need I explain?

3. T'Wolves - Sprewell and Sam Cassell will DEFINITELY help KG get over the hump in the 1st round.

4. Kings - I don't care whay anybody says, Brad Miller is a VERY good addition to this team and he will be a factor. I really like his game.

5. Spurs - addin Rasho, Turkoglu, Horry, and even Mercer was very impressive to me. Duncan, Rose, Ginobili, and Parker have reloaded well.

6, 7, and 8. That leaves 3 playoff spots and it will be a battle between:

Houston - Mo Taylor is the X factor here. Francis, Cat, and Ming is a given. Ming need help in the paint. 

Suns - They WILL make the playoffs. The big question is which of the last 3 spots they will get and who will they be facing in the 1st round. I don't think the Suns will be able to knock off any of those aforementioned 5 teams in a 7 game series but anything can happen. 

Portland - they're supposedly not done dealing yet so who knows?

Sonics - that team still seems to be missing something.


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## Arclite

How could they add all-stars to their roster with Penny and Gugliotta's contracts eating so much cap space? Their hope this year is the continued development of the big three (especially Amare) and Penny's health and ability to contribute a GOOD 20-24 minutes a game for the whole season.

Oh yeah, and that the top 5 teams in the west have chemistry problems . I think the Suns will easily get the sixth seed, and possibly the fifth should one of the big 5 western teams falter..


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## Amareca

We don't have to add anything.

We have 2 former great veterans.

We have 2 young veteran allstars. We have another young franchise player.

We could have won 50 last year. We lost lots of close games or gave games away like against the Nuggets which next seasons team certainly shouldn't with the experience they earned last season.
We also threw the last 3 games last season.

Before Penny went down and we had to start JJ depleting our whole bench we were having homecourt advantage.

Just the fact that we had a better record againt +.500 teams than against -.500 teams tells you that this team will improve naturally by a lot.


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## Starbury03

They are going to have three great max players on their team thy just need to grow as a team I think they will get out of the first round, they played the Spurs better than anyone


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## NYsteak

suns are not a playoff team. they were just lucky last season.
Rudy T got cancer.


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## Arclite

> Originally posted by <b>NYsteak</b>!
> suns are not a playoff team. they were just lucky last season.
> Rudy T got cancer.


Thanks for that analysis . You could make an argument that some of the JV conference teams didn't deserve to be "playoff teams", but anyone who made it in the west sure as hell deserved to be there. The way they played against San Antonio only solidifies that statement.


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## Muffin

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> How could they add all-stars to their roster with Penny and Gugliotta's contracts eating so much cap space? Their hope this year is the continued development of the big three (especially Amare) and Penny's health and ability to contribute a GOOD 20-24 minutes a game for the whole season.
> 
> Oh yeah, and that the top 5 teams in the west have chemistry problems . I think the Suns will easily get the sixth seed, and possibly the fifth should one of the big 5 western teams falter..


My comment was "All-Star type talent". I wasn't suggesting the the Suns spend a lot of money, just speaking on the fact the those other teams DID and their upgrades (for the most part) were pretty significant! 
But if we're talking about that type of talent, there are plenty of players in the league that have that type of talent  and aren't making the "big bucks" just yet like your very own Amare. A lot of money doesn't have to be spent just to upgrade your team. 

I've already stated that the Suns will make it to the playoffs (as 6th, 7th, or 8th seed), but I don't think they will get out of the 1st round based on my earlier analysis.


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## Scinos

I think the Suns are headed to a #6 seed. They are on a level just below the Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, T'Wolves and Kings. At the moment, I rank them just above the next level of teams challenging for the lower playoff spots: the Blazers, Rockets, Sonics.

#1-5 : Lakers, Spurs, Kings, Mavs, t-wolves.
#6-8 : Suns, Rockets, Blazers, Sonics (one team will miss out).


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> #6-8 : Suns, Rockets, Blazers, Sonics (one team will miss out).


Get real. It's absolutely absurd to lump those team together. The Blazers clearly have more talent than those teams and have actually made the playoffs the last several years. I would say it is a battle between the Suns, Rockets, and Sonics for the 7 and 8 seeds. Portland is not going to miss the playoffs. Those other teams could go either way.


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## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> Get real. It's absolutely absurd to lump those team together. The Blazers clearly have more talent than those teams and have actually made the playoffs the last several years. I would say it is a battle between the Suns, Rockets, and Sonics for the 7 and 8 seeds. Portland is not going to miss the playoffs. Those other teams could go either way.


I'd be willing to bet a majority of non-Blazer fans (and many of them as well) would place Phoenix ahead of Portland. I don't think there's any chance of missing the playoffs either, but I believe they'll be the 7th seed -- behind Phoenix.


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I'd be willing to bet a majority of non-Blazer fans (and many of them as well) would place Phoenix ahead of Portland. I don't think there's any chance of missing the playoffs either, but I believe they'll be the 7th seed -- behind Phoenix.


I would take that bet. Portland is basically a lock for no worse than the 6th spot. Phoenix is improving but Portland just has too much talent and is a better team than Phoenix period. And that is with all of Portland's problems. If things get better next year, Portland will be even better.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> 
> I would take that bet. Portland is basically a lock for no worse than the 6th spot. Phoenix is improving but Portland just has too much talent and is a better team than Phoenix period. And that is with all of Portland's problems. If things get better next year, Portland will be even better.


Portland is a lock for no worse than 6th huh? That means that you think they have an outside shot at being even higher, even though all the team first guys are gone and now all the cancerous players are there by themselves. I think Phoenix (with a healthy Marbury) is no question better than Portland w/o Pippen and Sabonis, I also don't think Rasheed will be a great go-to player either. 

You can love your team, but your team is going to fighting with Houston for the 7th spot. You can book it and then you guys will want to fire Cheeks even though Cheeks has a lot of crap to deal with other than Randolph and Woods and Derek Anderson.


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> Portland is a lock for no worse than 6th huh? That means that you think they have an outside shot at being even higher, even though all the team first guys are gone and now all the cancerous players are there by themselves. I think Phoenix (with a healthy Marbury) is no question better than Portland w/o Pippen and Sabonis, I also don't think Rasheed will be a great go-to player either.
> 
> You can love your team, but your team is going to fighting with Houston for the 7th spot. You can book it and then you guys will want to fire Cheeks even though Cheeks has a lot of crap to deal with other than Randolph and Woods and Derek Anderson.


Yes, book it bud. Portland is a lock for no worse than 6th. You obviously don't follow Portland very much or you would know a few things here. Pip and Sabas were nice contributors at times but nothing consistent. They were both injured throughout the whole year and you couldn't count on them. Pip was supposed to be some leader but all he did was moan and groan in the local papers...he didn't actually do something about it. Bonzi and Sheed are more than enough to carry the team. Plus, Z-Bo and Woods will only improve. In all, Portland really isn't losing very much in Pip and Sabas. The rotation will be tighter and the players will know their roles a little better.


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## #1SUNFAN

Rasheed and Bonzi doesn't mean your team is loaded with talent. You have Damon as your best point guard now? Zach and Qyntel barely got any clock last year. A decent center in Dale Davis, but then nothing. Didn't the Blazer's have a losing record without Pippen in the Lineup last year?


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## texan

i think tha suns can make it to the second round next year


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## NugzFan

so basically you are saying portland is the best of the rest out west? they arent better than dallas, spurs, kings, lakers or wolves (top 5) so they are 6th (since you say no lower than 6th).


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> so basically you are saying portland is the best of the rest out west? they arent better than dallas, spurs, kings, lakers or wolves (top 5) so they are 6th (since you say no lower than 6th).


Pretty much. I didn't see Phoenix, Houston or Seattle improve very much. Portland got rid of old and dead wood. They can now focus on a tighter rotation and younger players. I just see them in the six spot at this point in time.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> Pretty much. I didn't see Phoenix, Houston or Seattle improve very much. Portland got rid of old and dead wood. They can now focus on a tighter rotation and younger players. I just see them in the six spot at this point in time.


Glad to see your so optimistic, but I also saddened to see how delusional you are. Your team got worse not better. Now you have to play Damon Stoudamire and Derek Anderson is always going to be hurt. Your back-up center is Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje. I mean your team is huge mess. While the Suns are getting better just with experience and maturity. Your team is older and it still lacks maturity. I don't expect Portland to be 6th and they will be fighting for a playoff berth.


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## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> Pretty much. I didn't see Phoenix, Houston or Seattle improve very much. Portland got rid of old and dead wood. They can now focus on a tighter rotation and younger players. I just see them in the six spot at this point in time.


While I think Portland is surely going to make the playoffs as the 7 or 8 seed, there are many fans out there that think they'll be on the outside looking in as Seattle steals their spot. It's nice to be optimistic, but frankly I'd be willing to bet that you're in the minority on thinking the Blazers are going to be better than the Suns.


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> Glad to see your so optimistic, but I also saddened to see how delusional you are. Your team got worse not better. Now you have to play Damon Stoudamire and Derek Anderson is always going to be hurt. Your back-up center is Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje. I mean your team is huge mess. While the Suns are getting better just with experience and maturity. Your team is older and it still lacks maturity. I don't expect Portland to be 6th and they will be fighting for a playoff berth.


Portland did not get worse. Pippen and Sabas played OK but they were constantly hurt. They had little or no impact on the team success. You don't follow the Blazers like I do so I think I'm a little wiser at how Portland played than you are. I just love how people like you think Portland is a mess. How so? But the Suns are getting better with experience and maturity...give me a break. Portland will only get better as Z-Bo and Woods get more playing time. How is Portland getting older? What is your reasoning behind that? Is it that guys are one year older than last year? If so, so is every other team in the league...that's common sense and big so what. Portland actually got younger by getting rid of Pip and Sabas. They are adding a 18 year old so the averages go downward. Portland has the talent to coast to an easy 6th seed in the West. They will make the playoffs with ease as usual.


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> While I think Portland is surely going to make the playoffs as the 7 or 8 seed, there are many fans out there that think they'll be on the outside looking in as Seattle steals their spot. It's nice to be optimistic, but frankly I'd be willing to bet that you're in the minority on thinking the Blazers are going to be better than the Suns.


How did Seattle and Phoenix improve themselves from last year? I don't see much improvement. Portland is younger and Z-Bo is waiting to break out this year.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> 
> How did Seattle and Phoenix improve themselves from last year? I don't see much improvement. Portland is younger and Z-Bo is waiting to break out this year.


See antibody I have League Pass so I have seen enough Portland games. I just question how your team can be better when your leaders are Rasheed and Bonzi. Bonzi is so inconsistent it isn't funny. 

You talk about Woods but he barely played last year. He didn't get many minutes with your team. You mentioned Outlaw but he is no where near ready to even sit the bench. Phoenix jelled last year and they have another year together with an improved Joe Johnson and Amare and a healthy Marbury. So where you see your team improving you totally debunk that any of the teams you are competing with improving. I think you will be very dissapointed if you expect Portland to coast to a 6th seed.


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## antibody

I'm not sure where you can say Phoenix jelled last year. They didn't do anything but they jelled right. I think you are using that term very loosely here. Phoenix will be decent team but they have nothing beyond their starters and you don't go far without some quality on the bench. I just see the Suns, Sonics and Rockets battling it out for the 7th and 8th spots.


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## HKF

We just disagree. We'll see when the season ends and we'll come back to this, agreed.


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## TheMatrix31

Maybe second round MAYBE !


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> We just disagree. We'll see when the season ends and we'll come back to this, agreed.


Agreed...


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## Scinos

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> Portland has the talent to coast to an easy 6th seed in the West. They will make the playoffs with ease as usual.


"coast" ? :laugh:

If you think Portland will have an easy ride to the playoffs you are wrong. I think they will make the playoffs, but nothing will be easy about it. 

Portland has serious holes at the PG and center positions, an inconsistent SG, either RP or an out of position Sheed at the 3 and Randolph at PF who hasn't started a season before. This team has the "talent" to get the 6th spot, but it will all have to come together perfectly, and I just don't have the same optimism as you.


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> "coast" ? :laugh:
> 
> If you think Portland will have an easy ride to the playoffs you are wrong. I think they will make the playoffs, but nothing will be easy about it.
> 
> Portland has serious holes at the PG and center positions, an inconsistent SG, either RP or an out of position Sheed at the 3 and Randolph at PF who hasn't started a season before. This team has the "talent" to get the 6th spot, but it will all have to come together perfectly, and I just don't have the same optimism as you.


Portland has the talent period. They will be just fine. They will be even better if they can finally gel into a team. The talent on Portland alone makes up for some of the holes on the team. Then again, what team doesn't have some holes? I can sure tell you Seattle has more holes than Portland.


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## Starbury03

I guarentee that the Suns will get out of the first round


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> I guarentee that the Suns will get out of the first round


They will have to beat the Spurs, Lakers, or Kings for that to happen by being the 7th or 8th seed. Those teams are just better than the Suns right now.


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## whiterhino

First off, I think the Blazers will battle the Sonics for the 8th playoff spot and will get it "barely". They are no where near the Suns right now.......Marbury, Marion and Amare are an awesome threesome and they are getting a better bench as players mature....Also Zarko Carbakapa, their 1st rounder played AWESOME in Summer League and has really been impressing people, people slept on him in the draft and he's going to be a factor year 1. The Blazers have a bunch of idiots on their team, I'm sorry but it's true. And 2 of the non-idiots are now gone. They drafted a very raw 18 year old who will be lucky to be a factor in 5 years. They have a very week Center spot, a very week PG spot, a disgruntled Jailblazer demanding a trade even though he's pretty much untradeable, the team is in total dissaray. They will NOT be better than the Suns next year, they will not even be in the same league as the Suns and I'm not a fan of either team so this is an unbiased opinion. The Rockets will get the 7th spot. I also think the Suns have a slight shot at knocking off one of the BIG 5 and getting into the second round....especially if they match up against Minnesotta.


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## antibody

Well let's see whiterhino. The Blazers will not "barely" make the playoffs. The have more talent than those teams you say are competing with them for that 8 spot. And they are nowhere near the Suns right now? That's a joke. [strike]That comment makes you sound very stupid.[/strike] no personal attacks, thanks. How did you come to that conclusion? Portland has finished ahead of the Suns for how long now? I do think the Suns are improving though. Portland has had issues for the last several years and still make the playoffs fairly easily. I'll visit the Boston forum once the regular season is over and we will see how Portland does. Shoot, the Celtics would be lucky to make the playoffs out west.


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## Starbury03

They were closer to beating the Spurs than anyone else was, they played them alot better than the lakers


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## Amareca

Portland fans...

We would have swept you guys if we didn't throw the last 3 games of the regular season...

Marbury, Marion, Amare those 3 are all better than the best player on Portland's roster.


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## MightyReds2020

Aside from all the ups and downs you guys discussed earlier, one glaring hole in this Phoenix squad, IMO, is bench depth. Joe Johnson is a very capable backup, any of the two Cs aren't bad, but other than that they have nothing else. Over the course of an 82-game season, depth is extremely important. Therefore, I predict the Suns fighting for that last 3 seeds until the final month. They will pull off.


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## Amareca

We have a nice bench this season.

Zarko will contribute right away and much much more than Langhi ever did.

We have a real backup PG in Barbosa.

Googs is healthy and should be a good role player in limited minutes.

Jake Voshkul is a decent center.

Bo Outlaw is an energy monster.

Joe Johnson could be 6th man of the year if he isn't starting.

Casey is a decent role player/shooter.

Besides that we have 3 players in Marion, Marbury and Amare that will play almost all minutes at their position.
Joe Johnson and Penny who will play all minutes at SG and fill minutes at other positions as well.

Our starting lineup is better than the Spurs. They score more, get more assists and get more rebounds even without a consistent starting center.


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## Tom

if the suns can hold together for 2 more years while Amare "new breed" stoudamire develops they will win the title for sure.


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Portland fans...
> 
> We would have swept you guys if we didn't throw the last 3 games of the regular season...
> 
> Marbury, Marion, Amare those 3 are all better than the best player on Portland's roster.


What a freakin' joke bud. Amare is not better than Wallace at this point in time. Get real. I think the Suns have a better top 3 players than Portland but not much else. 3 guys don't make a good team unless your name is Jordan, Shaq, or Kobe. The Suns don't have a very good bench and the other two starters are a joke.


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## DownUnderWonder

I back the Suns to come home with a 8-2 run that gets them up to 5th. I see them going all 7 with the "new" Twolves. Who wins? Depends on whose bench holds up.

Garnett, Spree, Sczerbiak and Cassell 

vs

Marbury, Marion, Penny amd Starbury.



yee bloody ha I say.


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## Scinos

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> Portland has the talent period. They will be just fine. They will be even better if they can finally gel into a team. The talent on Portland alone makes up for some of the holes on the team. Then again, what team doesn't have some holes? I can sure tell you Seattle has more holes than Portland.


Well, I just hope you are ready to eat some crow when the Blazers are scrapping it out for the final spots in the playoffs...there will be no coasting by any western conference team, especially those teams outside of the top 5 (Lakers, Mavs, Wolves, Kings, Spurs). 

And, I don't know why you dragged the Sonics into this discussion...but yes, they have holes. More than Portland ? that's questionable: 

PG: Barry/Ridnour vs. Damon/McInnis. Sonics. 
SG: Allen/Daniels vs. Bonzi/DA. Sonics. 
SF: Rashard/Radmanovic vs. RP?/Woods. Sonics 
PF: Collison/Evans vs. Sheed/Zbo. Blazers.
C: James/Potapenko/Booth vs. Davis/Ruben BB?. Blazers, but Sonics have better depth. 

Sorry to have to do this on the Suns board...


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, I just hope you are ready to eat some crow when the Blazers are scrapping it out for the final spots in the playoffs...


Ummmmm. Crow. Delicious.


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## John

> Originally posted by <b>#1SUNFAN</b>!
> Rasheed and Bonzi doesn't mean your team is loaded with talent. You have Damon as your best point guard now? Zach and Qyntel barely got any clock last year. A decent center in Dale Davis, but then nothing. Didn't the Blazer's have a losing record without Pippen in the Lineup last year?


Did the Suns have a losing reocrd without Penny in the lineup lastyear?


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## #1SUNFAN

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Did the Suns have a losing reocrd without Penny in the lineup lastyear?


Yes, and that's why he will start at the Shooting guard and won't be traded until his contract is up.


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## Dathomieyouhate

the suns go out in the first round for about 4 years.. the west is just too strong...


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>#1SUNFAN</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, and that's why he will start at the Shooting guard and won't be traded until his contract is up.


No it only means that last season the Suns couldn't handle the injuries because of lack of depth.

Any team with little depth will play worse than before if one starter is injured.

This has NOTHING to do with Penny. Nothing.

They could trade Penny for any other above average SG like Magette, Richardson etc and they would be at least as good likely better than they are.


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## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> We have a nice bench this season.
> 
> Zarko will contribute right away and much much more than Langhi ever did.
> 
> We have a real backup PG in Barbosa.
> 
> Googs is healthy and should be a good role player in limited minutes.
> 
> Jake Voshkul is a decent center.
> 
> Bo Outlaw is an energy monster.
> 
> Joe Johnson could be 6th man of the year if he isn't starting.
> 
> Casey is a decent role player/shooter.
> 
> Besides that we have 3 players in Marion, Marbury and Amare that will play almost all minutes at their position.
> Joe Johnson and Penny who will play all minutes at SG and fill minutes at other positions as well.
> 
> Our starting lineup is better than the Spurs. They score more, get more assists and get more rebounds even without a consistent starting center.


BigAmare, I know you love your teams and the players, but these players don't scare people.

You'd never know if Zarko will contribute until he actually play few 'real' games. Everthing is an unknown now and the better bet is he's a year or two away at the least.

Barboso is an even bigger gamble if you expect him to produce in his first season as a PG.

Googs is washed up, although you might not want to hear it.

Voshkul is OK but he's undersized.

Outlaw is good at about 10 MPG. He can't play much because he's too offensively limited. I am not talking about he can't score, I am saying he can't even set some decent picks. He's a good energy guy though but when you have Amare, you don't need Outlaw because they're kind of similar in some way but Amare is way better. You don't play identical players in a same lineup.

Joe Johnson, not a 6th-man of the year candidate but a pretty good one nonetheless.

Jacobsen is the kind of player who will be out of the league once his shooting goes down, ala Tim Legler.

Aside from J.J, I can't see any good help from the bench.


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## Natty Dreadlockz

> They could trade Penny for any other above average SG like Magette, Richardson etc and they would be at least as good likely better than they are.


Yeah right... My Clipps would NEVA give you either one of them for a fade'n Penny Hardaway... Honestly... I doubt you'd get much in return for the cat... Maybe a player like Eddie House..Felipe Lopez..Shandon Anderson or Abdul-Wahad... Ha... J/K... Don't know who you'd get for Penny but it wouldn't be anything of equal value... Better off keepin the cat for his vet play... Peace


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## TheMatrix31

Yea...Amare Skills isn't limited at ALL he has an arsenal of pst moves and like 1 of the posters said before he crossed over a few people 

Amare is the Future...Garnett who ??


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## whiterhino

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> Well let's see whiterhino. The Blazers will not "barely" make the playoffs. The have more talent than those teams you say are competing with them for that 8 spot. And they are nowhere near the Suns right now? That's a joke. [strike]That comment makes you sound very stupid.[/strike] no personal attacks, thanks. How did you come to that conclusion? Portland has finished ahead of the Suns for how long now? I do think the Suns are improving though. Portland has had issues for the last several years and still make the playoffs fairly easily. I'll visit the Boston forum once the regular season is over and we will see how Portland does. Shoot, the Celtics would be lucky to make the playoffs out west.


Antibody, you just don't want to see the writing on the wall, everyone else is on the way up and the Blazers are in a wasteland. Was your "knock" on the Celts a way to try to deflect things so as not to see how pathetic the Blazers are because it doesn't work because I NEVER said the Celts would be good in the West right now, they'd be scratching for a playoff spot in the West and I know that, in the East they are fine. The Suns are a great young team, the Blazers have nothing but problems and malcontents on their team and even the couple who are maybe decent get mixed in the mess. Like I said you'll get the 8th seed by the skin of your teeth and if you were not so biased you'd see that.


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> Antibody, you just don't want to see the writing on the wall, everyone else is on the way up and the Blazers are in a wasteland. Was your "knock" on the Celts a way to try to deflect things so as not to see how pathetic the Blazers are because it doesn't work because I NEVER said the Celts would be good in the West right now, they'd be scratching for a playoff spot in the West and I know that, in the East they are fine. The Suns are a great young team, the Blazers have nothing but problems and malcontents on their team and even the couple who are maybe decent get mixed in the mess. Like I said you'll get the 8th seed by the skin of your teeth and if you were not so biased you'd see that.


I guess I don't see the BS writing on the wall then. I think it's joke to make a comment like the Blazers are nowhere near the Suns. What are you basing that on? That would be like me saying the Nets are nowhere near the Celtics over the past few years. It just doesn't make any sense. Portland has too much talent to barely get the 8th spot. Are you getting confused with your Celtics in the east? I would agree there. The Celtics might barely get that spot next year.


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## whiterhino

Antibody, you are a classic example of a fan who can't be honest about his own team, the NBA season will give you a dose of reality, don't worry


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## TheMatrix31

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> Antibody, you are a classic example of a fan who can't be honest about his own team, the NBA season will give you a dose of reality, don't worry


 :clap:


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## Starbury03

The suns could have beat the Spurs last season if Marbury wouldn't have hurt his elbow and couldn't shoot at all. This year they will go farther because Zarko gives them more talent off the bench.


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> Antibody, you are a classic example of a fan who can't be honest about his own team, the NBA season will give you a dose of reality, don't worry


Ohh, I'm not worried one bit. Portland will be just fine. I can't wait for the dose of reality. I would be concerned with the Celtics more than anything else. They have bad team and may not make the playoffs in the east...that doesn't say much about the team does it?


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>TheMatrix31</b>!
> :clap:


I'm not sure what you are clapping at as a Suns fan. What have the Suns done lately? That's what I thought. At least Portland has done fairly well over the last several years. The Suns have been lucky to make the playoffs. That is sure something to clap at...what a joke!


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## whiterhino

I'm not worried about the Celts making the playoffs this season, lets see they were in the 2nd round this past season and the 3rd round the season before, nope, not worried. The Blazers should be worried. The Suns also need not be worried they could even grab the 5 spot from Minnesotta if they get hot


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> I'm not worried about the Celts making the playoffs this season, lets see they were in the 2nd round this past season and the 3rd round the season before, nope, not worried. The Blazers should be worried.


Are those accomplishments by the Celtics supposed to be good or something. Going to the 2nd round in the east is really not a big deal. The east has been very week the last several years if you haven't noticed. The Celtics are going backwards. They have nobody besides Pierce (who is one of my favorite players) and Walker (who I think is overrated). Pierce is a very good player but he can't do it all.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> I'm not sure what you are clapping at as a Suns fan. What have the Suns done lately? That's what I thought. At least Portland has done fairly well over the last several years. The Suns have been lucky to make the playoffs. That is sure something to clap at...what a joke!


[strike]How old are you? 2 years?[/strike]

Suns have been to the playoffs 14 times in the last 15 years or so.
What has Portland accomplished? Smoking pot? Early playoff exits?

You are in a great position to talk...  

Portland doesn't have more than average talent. Sure they have some good players but they have no special players at all.

Let's keep the insults to a minimum.. thanks..


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## Arclite

Ok, before this gets out of hand - let's just try to keep the snide comments off the board.. Either way, Portland and Phoenix are two of the three most successful teams over the last two decades. Regardless of them winning the title or not, that kind of consistency is nothing to be insulted..

I'd say unless Seattle and Houston both come out with miracle seasons, both teams are going to make the playoffs anyways. 6th or 8th seed, does it matter? I mean it's pick your poison.. either way they're going to have to deal with the Spurs, Kings, or Lakers in the first round..


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## Amareca

The Blazers will have a tough time finishing ahead of Houston and Seattle.

They are by no means a lock for the playoffs.


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## antibody

I think you are in the minority BigAmare. Most NBA fans do think Portland is a lock for the playoffs. Houston and Seattle have not gotten any better. What did they do to improve so much to be better than the Blazers? I'm waiting. You say Portland isn't this or Portland isn' that but they continuously finish ahead of the Suns at the end of the year. Can you explain your logic?


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## MJG

6. Phoenix
7. Portland
8. Houston
9. Seattle

Until the regular season begins and one or more of these teams change my mind on the court, this is what I personally believe.


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## double3peat

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> 6. Phoenix
> 7. Portland
> 8. Houston
> 9. Seattle
> 
> Until the regular season begins and one or more of these teams change my mind on the court, this is what I personally believe.


:yes:


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## Tailback

Antibody, what u fail to realize is that portland has some decent and good players, and maybe a star in wallace, but they dont have the superstar. Phoenix not only has a superstar, but they have a leader in Stephon Marbury. Shoot, Starbs could take the whole portland squad with his left nut. The truth is Wallace would be lucky to carries starburys jock.


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## Starbury03

That is very true!


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## antibody

> Originally posted by <b>Tailback</b>!
> Antibody, what u fail to realize is that portland has some decent and good players, and maybe a star in wallace, but they dont have the superstar. Phoenix not only has a superstar, but they have a leader in Stephon Marbury. Shoot, Starbs could take the whole portland squad with his left nut. The truth is Wallace would be lucky to carries starburys jock.


I could care less if Marbury gets more accolades than Sheed. The bottom line is that Portland is more talented than the Suns. The Suns have no bench and will pray nobody gets hurt. The Suns will be lucky to make the playoffs. Marbury is a good player but c'mon, he's not the best by a long shot.


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## Amareca

Insider today said that everyone in the league expects San Antonio, Lakers, Twolves, Kings and Suns to be locks for the playoffs barring major injuries.

And they say that Portland, Houston and Seattle will contend for the last 2 spots but more and more GMs back away from Portland.

The Suns are much more talented than the Blazers that's a fact.

Stephon Marbury is more talented than all of the Blazers guards combined.
Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire are more talented than all of the Blazers forwards combined.

And do the Blazers even have a center anymore?


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## antibody

Who cares what insider today says...I don't. I've seen other predictions having the Suns barely make the playoffs...what's your point? And the Blazers don't have a center? Dale Davis is their center. The question should be do the Suns have a center? That big goof ball you call a center really sucks.


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## MightyReds2020

I think the talent level for both teams (Suns and Blazers) do not have huge discrepancy like you guys made out of. The Suns have more clear-cut superstar-potentials whereas Blazers have deeper bench. The real difference is this Portland team was always in a disarrayed due to so many on and/or off the court issues and the Suns had a huge year last season. Until proven otherwise, the Suns should be a nose ahead of Portland in terms of playoff potentials.

Just my 2cents.


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## #1SUNFAN

I haven't seen any rankings for this coming season that has the Blazer's ahead of the Suns. Post a link to those rankings to show all the ignorant Sun's fans wrong.

I also Don't see alot of depth on Portland:

C-Dale Davis
PF-Rasheed
SF-Woods?
SG-Bonzi
PG-Damon
Not that intimidating a lineup.


With Ruben Patterson, Zach Randolph,,Travis Outlaw, and Jeff McInnis off the bench. Wow, that's deep.

You also lost your third and Fourth leading scorer's from last year, each of whom scored more than 10 points.


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## antibody

I actually don't see that much of a difference with the Suns and Blazers...I expect them to be close. Yet, I never said there was some BS ranking where the Blazers were ahead of the Suns. Where are you getting that from?...out of thin air? [strike]Why don't you read next time rather than make assumptions or spewing out garbage.[/strike] Portland's lineup may not be that intimidating but they will have a competitive team. I really don't see the Suns as that intimidating to tell you the truth. The only major advantage for the Sun's is at PG.

Unnecessary


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## Amareca

please you just said in a previous post that you saw rankings that had the Suns barely making the playoffs.

Please where..

And calling Dale Davis your center is like calling Amare Stoudemire our center.

At least we have some guys who are decent and natural centers.

Portland's bench is certainly isn't better than the Suns.

If they start Davis, Wallace, Wells, Anderson, Stoudamire there bench is Woods, Patterson, McInnis, Outlaw and Randolph = LOL

90% of all the popular rankings have Phoenix #6 in the West. Most of the rankings also have the Rockets ahead of the Blazers.

The Suns have major advantages at both PG and SF.


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## #1SUNFAN

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> I've seen other predictions having the Suns barely make the playoffs...what's your point.


That's why I asked, there aren't really alot of ranking's out yet, just Hoopshype, and ESPN are the only one's I have seen.


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## antibody

[strike]You guys don't read very well down in Phoenix do you? I lived there for one year and I'm not shocked. [/strike] So what if I saw rankings where the Suns barely make the playoffs...what's your point? I guess I have to explain further. I also saw in those rankings where they had Portland not making the playoffs. And calling Davis the Blazer center is not like calling Amare the Suns center. DD is stronger and tougher than Amare right now and he can bang with almost any center. The Sun's might have some natural centers but who cares...they suck and just take up space. I will take Portland's bench over the Sun's anyday. Randolph is already better than anyone the Sun's have off the bench.

Any more comments like that and this thread will be closed..


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## Amareca

How can Randolph be better than Joe Johnson?

He doesn't even play the same position.

I am not even from Phoenix what's your point? you can't prove any of the arguments you are throwing around.

Davis is MIGHT be stronger and tougher than Amare. MAYBE!

But Amare would still be 10 times as good if we put him at center.

Jake Voshkul and Scott Williams are both decent centers. Big Jake was also decent when healthy and has some potential left.


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## antibody

If you watched Randolph and Johnson on a periodic basis you would know who is better. Randolph can be an impact player and I highly doubt Johnson can be one. I just don't hear the word "potential" much with Johnson as I do with Randolph. Davis has proven he can take the banging around from centers and Amare has not...so, one could realistically say Davis is stronger than Amare right now...just look at their bodies. And the Sun's centers are scrubs at best...you just traded away the only real decent possibility. The guy you got back may turn out OK but the Sun's go backwards right now at center.


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