# Semi OT: How do you rank the West this upcoming season...



## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Its slow round' here, so I thought it would be nice conversation to get everyone's imput on how they think the west will turn out this season. Perdict playoff seeding, total wins and breifly describe how you think each teams upcoming season will go. 


1. Los Angeles Lakers 61-21
I hate it, but the Lakers are a dambed good team. Adding Bynum to a core of Kobe and Gasol is going to really thrust this team into another gear, IMO. They only really lost Turiaf, who is a mediocre role player and not that big of a loss. I still think Odom at SF is going to continue to hold this team back from being really, really great though.

2. New Orleans Hornets 59-23
They have had a very effective offseason. Adding Posey is huge, he is the type of uber role player that can push a team over the edge. I question their ability to stay healthy an entire season though, but if they do they are a powerhouse.

3. Utah Jazz 56-26
They will improve a bit, but are still not a 'legit' contender. They just lack something. I think Okur at C is always going to hold them back. Still, they didnt loose anyone of importance and given their relative youth I see them improving slightly and snaging this #3 spot.

4. San Antonio Spurs 55-27
The Spurs have had a very lackluster offseason. I was thinking that they would make a clear move to get younger/more athletic. Instead they draftead a projected 2nd rounder in the 1st, didnt add Splitter & lost Barry. They only added Roger Mason Jr. Still, they have a legit 'big 3'. It seems that for the past few seasons everyone has been expecting a fall off from SAS but it has yet to happen. Good for the Blazers is that this team is going to hit a serious decline in 2-3 seasons. Its simply inevitable. 

5. Houston Rockets 53-27
I dont think adding Artest throws Houston into the elite status of the above 4 teams. Still, a full season of TMac, Yao and Ron could be very good. I think this team is destined to implode or break down via. injury. The defensive potential of this team is quite scarry. I also think their PG situation will continue to be a big problem.

6. Phoenix Suns 51-31
Here is another team on their way down like SAS. Their championship window was once very large but is shrinking like hell. I think 2 seasons from now, they will be in a major Minny like rebuild. Still, they have veteran talent and playoff experience. That alone makes them a threat to get out of the 1st round. The real wildcard is Shaq. If he trains like hell this offseason the entire dimension of their team changes. Sadly for Phoenix, thats not going to happen.

7. Portland Trailblazers 50-32
The start of another 20+ year playoff run? I certainly hope so. This team clearly has the talent to be a #7 seed, but they lack the experience. Still, if they can stay healthy, I see no reason why this team cant improve by at least 9 games which is what a 50 win season would amount to. I can even see them pushing NOH, another relativley playoff inexperienced team, in the 1st round. 

8. Dallas Mavericks 48-34
They are fading and doing so fast. I think there is a very nice chance they miss the playoffs this season. They are aging, lack cohesion and toughness and simply are not that talented after Dirk and JHo. They should have made a real last ditch attempt this offseason to find a true #2 guy, but didnt. The Kidd trade will go down in infamy. 
------------------------
9. Los Angeles Clippers 46-36
I think even with the loss of Brand this team is going to be much improved. Baron Davis is a top 5 PG, Camby was free and Ricky Davis is a decent gamble. I would not be surpised if they make the playoffs. Baron/Davis/Thornton/Camby/Kaman isnt a bad lineup.

10. Golden State Warriors 44-38
They are a decent team with a bright future. They could be a big suprise this year if even 2 of their 3 young guys pan out, as all fit extremley well in a run-&-gun style of play. They are a team that will be consitered in 5 years a Dallas/Phoenix sub-powerhouse while PDX is consitered a LAL/SAS powerhouse.

11. Denver Nuggets 44-39
I hate what has happened to this team. On court, they have probably the lowest collective BBall IQ of any team in the league. They gave away Camby. They traded their 1st rounder. They added nothing while all the rest of the West improved. 

12. Minnesota Timberwolves 35-47
Of the bottom feeders, Minny is going to improve the most. I think Love immediatley brings 15ppg, 8rpg, 3apg and truly improves them. A full season of Foye is also going to be big. They will be a team to watch for in the future, but as it stands dont have the pieces to be great. 

13. Sacramento Kings 34-48
Poor SAC. They are the definition of perpetual mediocracy, only they are not mediocre. They have a bunch of crap, overpaid veterans. Just gave a mediocre PG the full MLE for half a decade. A reach in Thompson and a low 1st round rookie was their return for Artest. They are going to have a rough few years IMO.

14. Memphis Grizzlies 30-52
I am a Mayo believer, but simply put when your only proven post player is Darko Millicic your going to struggle. 

15. Oklahoma City Buttpirates 26-56
Westbrook is a 2-3 season project, IMO. They also lack a true post presence like Memphis and you simply need some low post scoring to succeed in the West. They have 3 nice pieces and a barrell of crap.


----------



## Stepping Razor (Apr 24, 2004)

1. New Orleans 60-22
2. Portland 57-25
3. Houston 56-26
4. San Antonio 54-28
5. LA Lakers 53-29
6. Utah 52-30
7. Phoenix 49-33
8. Dallas 48-34
----
9. Golden State 44-38
10. Denver 40-42
11. LA Clippers 36-46
12. Sacramento 36-46
13. Memphis 32-50
14. Minnesota 30-52
15. Dead To Me 21-61


----------



## Freshtown (May 24, 2004)

1. New Orleans Hornets (58-24): They will be one of the most dangerous teams in the NBA, period. Chris Paul is going to have another MVP worthy season, and a David West/Tyson Chandler combo is nice down low. Signing Posey is huge, and they will be able to go decently deep on the bench with Julian Wright, Mo Pete, James Posey, and Pargo. Inexperience caused them to lose their grip on San Antonio- it won't happen again. Look for them to go WCF minimum.

2. Los Angeles Lakers (57-25): What can I say. I hate the Lakers. They whine, they complain, they're primadonnas and I hate them for it. But I must admit the thought of a team that played its way into the finals is adding one of the better young centers in the league is scary. He addresses all their weaknesses that caused them to flounder at certain times last season. Look for a LAL-NOH WCF. It could go either way.

3. Houston Rockets (54-28): This team will take some time to gel. Don't expect them to dominate right away. A month or two in, however, when they figure out their new defensive schemes and positions, this will be a monstrocity of a team on defense. In crunch time look for a lineup of T-Mac at point, with Battier and Artest on the wings. Scola and Yao down low- nasty. The official 2008-2009 underdog/surprise team pick. If things go well, a finals berth is not out of the question.

4. San Antonio (54-28): Another perpetual playoff lock, the Spurs will bore everyone to sleep playing mean team D and basic pick and roll, high and low post passes that wear opponents down. Everyone counts them out- and while I do believe their championship run is over, they are always a threat, and the right combination of factors could easily result in an upset over the top 3 seeds. Not likely though.

5. Portland Trailblazers (52-30) Many analysts are putting the Jazz, Suns, or Dallas here. I don't buy it. The Blazers are too improved to not trounce on some teams in the west next year. Yes, they are young, but so are the Hornets. We take a team that could regularly knock down opponents like the Jazz, Nuggets, and Lakers, and add Oden, Fernandez, and Bayless, while only subtracting Jack (addition by subtraction in any matter). They will turn heads. Greg Oden is a beast among men and people have forgotten how dominate he is. They will be reminded soon.

6. Phoenix Suns (52-30) They are still an (albeit fading) force. Amare is a top-5 post player in the NBA and Nash is not close to calling it a career. Shaq is slightly closer but is still better than most of the starting centers in the NBA. With Diaw and Barbosa in the mix, they are still too talented to not win 50 games.

7. Utah Jazz (50-32) Yes, they are a perpetual playoff team, but the roster as is is too soft to field them past one or two rounds of the playoffs. While Williams is one of the best PG's in the L, Carlos Boozer and Okur aren't going to power them past the giants of the west like Oden and Aldridge, Gasol and Bynum, Amare and Shaq, etc. Still a virtual lock for the playoffs however.

8. Dallas Mavericks (49-33) Sad- I really did root for them to beat the Heat in 2006. Sadly, the ship has sailed. They will look better this coming season, as I think people are underestimating the defensive presence that Diop gave opponents in their run of 05-06; it was something that was missed last season against Chandler and the Hornets. Still have an MVP, a borderline all-star small forward, one of the GOAT point guards (albeit broken down and slow, still a stunning passer, playmaker, and defender). They're not lottery bound yet.

Well I just wasted 20 minutes writing this all up so I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I'm not hardcore enough to do all the records. I'll just rank. Always fun to make lists.


1. Los Angeles Lakers
2. Houston Rockets
3. New Orleans Hornets
4. San Antonio Spurs
5. Utah Jazz
6. Portland Trailblazers
7. Phoenix Suns
8. Dallas Mavericks

9. Golden State Warriors
10. Los Angeles Clippers
11. Denver Nuggets
12. Sacramento Kings
13. Memphis Grizzlies
14. Minnesota Timberwolves
15. Oklahoma City Something-Or-Others


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> I'm not hardcore enough to do all the records. I'll just rank. Always fun to make lists.
> 
> 
> 1. Los Angeles Lakers
> ...


i would move portland up to 4 and drop the spurs and jazz each down a spot. other than that, those are my rankings.


----------



## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

1. Houston- 56-26
2. Utah- 53-29
3. LAL- 53-29
4. San Antonio- 52-30
5. New Orleans- 51-31
6. Portland- 50-32
7. Phoenix- 49-33
8. Dallas- 42-40

------------------------------

9. Denver- 40-42
10. Golden State- 38-44
11. LAC- 35-47
12. Minny- 33-49
13. OKC- 30-52
14. Sacto- 29-53
15. Memphis- 25-57

I really don't think the win totals will be as high as you guys foresee them to be. The bottom feeders and mediocre teams from last year almost all got better, and wins will be harder to come by for fringe teams (unlike last year when the eighth seed had 49).


----------



## Da_O (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm to tired to think of records or come up with explanations

1. Lakers
2. Hornets
3. Rockets
4. Spurs
5. Jazz
6. Blazers
7. Suns
8. Mavericks

---------------------------------
The best of the rest
9. Denver
10. LAC
11. GSW
12. Sac
13. Memphis
14. OKC
15. Minny


----------



## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

Stepping Razor said:


> 1. New Orleans 60-22
> 2. Portland 57-25
> 3. Houston 56-26
> 4. San Antonio 54-28
> ...


I like this one. Also like the OKC name!!!


I really see no reason why we cannot be a top 3 in the West. I also agree with the person who said "we add Oden, Fernandez and Bayless and only lose Jack." Damn good perspective.


----------



## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Its slow round' here, so I thought it would be nice conversation to get everyone's imput on how they think the west will turn out this season. Perdict playoff seeding, total wins and breifly describe how you think each teams upcoming season will go.
> 
> 
> 1. Los Angeles Lakers 61-21
> ...


I like your list and would agree with it. I think the most surprising team could be the Minnesota Timberwolves and might even put them above the Nuggets. I know everyone hates Oklahoma City now but they will be better then Memphis Grizzlies and maybe even the Kings.


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

1 - Rockets
2 - Hornets
3 - Lakers
4 - Jazz
5 - Spurs
6 - Blazers
7 - Suns
8 - Mavericks
9 - Clippers
10 - Nuggets
11 - Grizzlies
12 - Warriors
13 - OKC
14 - TWolves
15 - Kings


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

L*kers 60-22
Hornets 58-24
Jazz 55-27
Spurs 57-25
Rockets 56-26
Suns 52-30
Mavs 51-31
Nuggets 50-32

Blazers 48-34
Clippers
Warriors
Kings

Grizzlies
T-Wolves
Durrants


----------



## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

1. Blazers
2-8. Who cares?

Being a homer makes for a lot less work.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

The Grizzlies have a nice young core. Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo, Marc Gasol, Kyle Lowry...plus a good veteran in Mike Miller. I think they'll be an up-and-comer.


----------



## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Minstrel said:


> The Grizzlies have a nice young core. Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo, Marc Gasol, Kyle Lowry...plus a good veteran in Mike Miller. I think they'll be an up-and-comer.


Is that the Minnesota Grizzlies or the Memphis Timberwolves?


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Injury-prone players:

Odom, Bynum

Chandler, Peja

Yao, T-Mac

Oden, Roy

Shaq, Hill

*Lakers: 63 wins

Rockets: 62 wins

Hornets: 61 wins

Suns, Blazers, Nuggets are on the same boat - 49 wins.*


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

andalusian said:


> Is that the Minnesota Grizzlies or the Memphis Timberwolves?


How do you mean?


----------



## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Minstrel said:


> How do you mean?


Mike Miller is not a Gizzly anymore...


----------



## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

Yeah, Miller went to the T-Wolves in the Mayo-Love trade.

Anyway:

1. Lakers 63-19
2. Hornets 59-23
3. Rockets 55-27
4. Jazz 54-28
5. Spurs 52-30
6. Suns 52-30
7. Blazers 50-32
8. Mavs 48-34
9. Nuggets 45-37
10. Clippers 42-40
11. Warriors 41-41
12. T-Wolves 38-44
13. Kings 30-52
14. Grizzlies 28-54
15. OKC *******s 20-62


----------



## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

1. Hornets
2. Rockets
3. L#kers
4. Jazz
5. Spurs
6. Suns
7. Mavs
8. Blazers

9. Nuggets
10. Clippers
11. Warriors
12. T-wolves (with Mike Miller)
13. Grizzled 
14. Kings
15. who?


----------



## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/gym_rat_080804.html




> After completing a Monday workout at *Target Center*, Mike Miller sat down to shed some light on what takes place during his daily net-splashing barrage.
> 
> Mike Miller Conversation
> 
> ...


Miller would have been a nice placeholder small forward for us the next couple of years.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

andalusian said:


> Mike Miller is not a Gizzly anymore...


Oh, okay. I missed that part of the deal between the teams. Still, Miller was just another asset I thought they had, but not a key one. The main thing, to me, was their young core, which I think is a very good and intriguing one.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> L*kers 60-22
> Hornets 58-24
> Jazz 55-27
> Spurs 57-25
> ...


the Nuggets above Portland? why?


----------



## TLo (Dec 27, 2006)

Masbee said:


> http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/gym_rat_080804.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've heard that Martell Webster can shoot like that...*in practice.*


----------



## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Dan said:


> the Nuggets above Portland? why?


I'm not MM, but I'll hazard a guess. Offhand I'd say two more regular season wins than the Blazers ...


----------



## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

I see the West this way: 

*Top Tier: *
LA Lakers
New Orleans Hornets

*Playoff Locks:* 
San Antonio Spurs
Utah Jazz
Houston Rockets

*Playoff Likelies:*
Portland Trail Blazers
Phoenix Suns
Dallas Mavericks

*Playoff Possibles:*
Denver Nuggets
Golden State Warriors

*Longshots: *
LA Clippers
Sacramento Kings

Ought to be in the East: 
Minnesota Timberwolves
Memphis Grizzlies
Oklahoma City Carpetbaggers


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Dan said:


> the Nuggets above Portland? why?


Nuggets have fantastic 4 - Melo, AI, K-Mart and Nene

and JR Smith

Melo + AI = 40% of West all-star starters, and they are healthy. I am not surprised if they win 60 games.


----------



## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Ballscientist said:


> Nuggets have fantastic 4 - Melo, AI, K-Mart and Nene
> 
> and JR Smith
> 
> Melo + AI = 40% of West all-star starters, and they are healthy. I am not surprised if they win 60 games.


Since when have K-Mart and Nene been considered fantastic?

I'll go Portland over Denver. Here's my list:

1. Lakers (Bynum's back)
2. Hornets (It's scary how good Paul has become)
3. Jazz (full season of Korver)
4. Spurs (steady, but aging)
5. Rockets (injury prone players and one psycho)
6. Suns (Nash has beaten the odds 4 years in a row now)
7. Blazers (Oden, Fernandez, Bayless)
8. Mavs (someone goes after getting bounced by LA in first round)

9. Nuggets (no interior defense, no playoffs)
10. Clippers (good individual players that I can't imagine meshing well)
11. Warriors (losing Baron is gonna hurt more than they imagine)
12. Grizzlies (young, but give them some time and watch out)
13. Kings (too many holes to fill, not enough skilled players)
14. T'Wolves (Jefferson and Love will be interesting)
15. OKC "Thunder" (too many changes to be a good thing this year)


----------



## Stepping Razor (Apr 24, 2004)

Public Defender said:


> I see the West this way:
> 
> *Top Tier: *
> LA Lakers
> ...



It's interesting, I have almost the opposite impression: I really only see two tiers in the West. 


I see one group of 8 teams that I'm almost certain will make the playoffs, barring injury, but which I think are grouped very closely together and which I could see seeded in almost any order:

New Orleans
Portland
Houston
San Antonio
LA Lakers
Utah
Phoenix
Dallas


And then I see a huge gap, followed by 7 teams that I think have almost no chance of making the playoffs, barring collapse or injury crisis for one of the teams above:

Golden State
Denver
LA Clippers
Sacramento
Memphis
Minnesota
OKC

I would really be shocked if any of those teams in the second tier make the playoffs. On the other hand, I think just about any of the teams in the top tier could finish 1st or 8th.

SR


----------



## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

spurs
rockets
lakers
hornets
blazers
jazz
mavs 
suns
golden state
denver
clips
wolves
grizz
kings
durant

the west is ****ing stacked.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Stepping Razor said:


> It's interesting, I have almost the opposite impression: I really only see two tiers in the West.
> 
> I see one group of 8 teams that I'm almost certain will make the playoffs, barring injury, but which I think are grouped very closely together and which I could see seeded in almost any order:
> 
> ...


i agree with you about the two tiers thing. golden state, the clippers, and denver all could have been teams that had a shot at the playoffs but after what has gone on in the offseason, i would be very surprised if anyone not in your top 8 made the playoffs. denver gave away their shot trading away camby. golden state's shot was lost with baron davis. the clippers shot went away when brand and maggette did(even with the additions of camby and baron).

i think there is some separation in the first tier though. i'd put the lakers, hornets, rockets, and blazers above the rest(though most will probably disagree with the blazers being quite that high). next would be the spurs and jazz. then would be the suns and mavs as the two teams of the top 8 that could conceivably fall out of the playoffs.


----------



## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

Stepping Razor said:


> It's interesting, I have almost the opposite impression: I really only see two tiers in the West.


OK, allow me to blur the lines for you a little. 

I think we only disagree on a handful of teams. Those that I list as "likely" and "possible." The "longshots" and "locks" I would say would only make (or miss) the playoffs in the event of a catastrophic injury - the same caveat you give above. 

So, we're talking, really, about the Suns, Mavericks, Blazers, Warriors, and Nuggets. Of those, I think the Warriors are the least likely to make the playoffs, but that's a team with a lot of young talent (like the Blazers), and a coach who is truly gifted in making things happen. So that's why I kept them in the hunt. 

As for the Suns and Mavs, as "likely", rather than "locks" - they just both strike me as teams on their way down. In the NBA, I've been surprised by how quickly teams can sometimes spiral downwards. With Dallas, I think the absence of Avery Johnson will be felt, and they could slip. With the Suns, I think Steve Kerr traded his way into a corner - and with all the vets plus D'Antoni out of the picture, I don't see an ironclad playoff future. But on balance, I see the Mavericks and Suns with significantly better chances of making it than the Warriors.

Then there are the two teams that I feel the most strongly will be fighting for the 8th spot - the Nuggets and Blazers. I think the karma, for whatever reason, is going to be with the Blazers. If chemistry wins playoff races, Portland will have this one hands-down. But, if the Blazers start to feel the pressure - pressure they really haven't felt before - then Denver will steal the berth, because guys like 'Melo and AI have been there before. 

That's why I see a little bit more gray than you, I guess.


----------



## Stepping Razor (Apr 24, 2004)

Public Defender said:


> OK, allow me to blur the lines for you a little.
> 
> I think we only disagree on a handful of teams. Those that I list as "likely" and "possible." The "longshots" and "locks" I would say would only make (or miss) the playoffs in the event of a catastrophic injury - the same caveat you give above.
> 
> ...


Yeah, good points all around. I think I just think the Blazers are a bit better and the Nuggets are a bit worse than you do... hence my mental image of greater stratification.

Of course, watch me look like a complete clown when the season rolls around and the Kings win 50 games or something...

As for the Nuggets, I really think they're going to miss Camby a lot and will backslide considerably. I wouldn't be surprised to see that team pull the plug and deal either AI or Melo for rebuilding pieces at the trade deadline. I think they will finish no better than 10th. But maybe I'm undersetimating them.


----------



## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

One thing to keep in mind: the weaknesses of the Mavs, Suns, Nugs, and Warriors all tend to manifest on the defensive end. Over the course of the regular season, a good offense can mask a flawed defense. It is only in the play-offs that the balance tends to shift to the defense.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Not sure why people are hating on the Kings. With Artest gone as a distraction, look for Theus to coach up em to another near 40 win season.


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

1. Hornets
2. Rockets
3. Lakers
4. Blazers
5. Jazz
6. Suns
7. Spurs
8. Mavs

STOMP


----------



## LittleAlex (Feb 14, 2008)

Ballscientist said:


> Nuggets have fantastic 4 - Melo, AI, K-Mart and Nene
> 
> and JR Smith
> 
> Melo + AI = 40% of West all-star starters, and they are healthy. I am not surprised if they win 60 games.


K-Mart is injury prone and very over-rated. Nene has yet to play a full season and is not a proven post player. JR Smith had a good playoffs, but is irratic and immature. Melo can score the with the best, but really doesn't do anything to make his teammates better. AI is a great player, but he is on the downside of his career and has the same faults as Melo.

Plus, it is Karl's 4th or 5th year as coach. Just about the time his teams implode. Denver is in pretty bad shape over all. 60 wins would be miracle. 45 wins is more likely, and that doesn't get them into the playoffs. I really don't see them as a better team then Portland.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

HKF said:


> Not sure why people are hating on the Kings. With Artest gone as a distraction, look for Theus to coach up em to another near 40 win season.


if the kings win 40 games, theus is the best coach in the league.

that kings team really just doesn't have all that much talent. martin, garcia, and salmons is a nice trio at the 2/3 positions but that's really pretty much all they have going for them.


----------



## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

1. Lakers - 61
2. Hornets - 59
3. Rockets - 57
4. Jazz - 56
5. Spurs - 54
6. Suns - 53
7. Mavericks - 50
8. Blazers - 48
9. Nuggets - 47
10. Warriors - 47
11. Clippers - 45
12. Kings - 38
13. Memphis - 30
14. OKC - 27
15. Minnesota - 24


----------



## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

1. Portland
2. San Antonio
3. New Orleans
4. Houston
5. L.A. Lakers
6. Utah
7. Phoenix
8. Denver
9. Minnesota
10. L.A. Clippers
11. Dallas
12. Memphis
13. Golden State
14. Sacramento
15. OKC


----------



## SixPack (May 23, 2007)

1) San Antonio - I think they will re-group to win it all again this year. People forget they never won back to back titles.

2) New Orleans - Chris Paul is that dam good and one more year of experience could put them over the top.

3) LA Lakers - If Bynum comes back healthy, they might be even better than last year.

4) Houston - Artest is a huge addition and if he can co-exist with Yao Ming, they have a chance to win the title.

5) Utah - They still need another piece to compete for a title, but they are solid all around.

6) Phoenix - This is Phoenix's last chance before Shaq retires. Unfortunately, Shaq is old and tired.

7) Dallas - One full year with Kidd and Nowitzki might suprises some people. They still have some talent but Carlisle gets the most out of his players.

8) Denver - They will have Iverson and Anthony. If Nene comes back strong, watch out, they could be a dark horse.

I think Portland can compete for the 7th and 8th spots but I think their still a year away.


----------



## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

rocketeer said:


> if the kings win 40 games, theus is the best coach in the league.


Well, anyone who watched New York play last season knows he's not (or wasn't) the worst. :biggrin:


----------

