# Bulls Are Making It Easy...



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

...for management to blow this team up and start over, _*again.*_

Curry said he would feel like a scapegoat if he were pulled from the lineup but agreed he didn't show up. "I didn't play so great," Curry said. "'Z' killed me. That's all I'm thinking about. I'm not thinking about the time I was out there because when I was out there, I wasn't doing much."

Zydrunas Ilgauskas owned Eddy Curry to the tune of 24 points and 17 rebounds—Curry played only 18 minutes—and Carlos Boozer added 22 points and 13 rebounds to spark the Cavaliers to a 111-87 victory, their seventh straight.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sgamer,1,3892234.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Ilgauskas and Boozer vs. Curry and Chandler. In the grand scheme of things, weren't we supposed to have the advantage at the power positions? And when Crawford got flattened by Newble in the first half, didn't any of you expect the Bulls to return the favor? JC's buddy, Curry, was on the floor at the time. Yet, on Cleveland's very next possession, James powered his way to the basket for a layup unmolested. 

Where's the pride? Where's the courage? Hell, where's the loyalty between friends? When Crawford got mugged and no one on the Bulls cared enough to retaliate, that's when I'd had enough. It's simply not worth it to keep this group together anymore.

People can eulogize players like Blount and Brunson all they want to after their departure. But I for one won't shed a single tear for any of the 3 C's or their supporting cast if and when they're sent packing as well. To think that Bulls fans may be forced to sit through still another season of indifferent, heartless play is more than I'm willing to tolerate. I don't care if all you get for Chandler in trade is a recording of Jerry Vale singing the national anthem, or if the best the Bulls can do is acquire a melted Hershey bar for Curry...it really isn't as important as a fresh start. 

I was at the Bulls/Laker game last weekend. I looked around the United Center at still another full house while thinking to myself, "These bums don't deserve this kind of fan loyalty." I also could feel just how badly the audience wanted something, anything to cheer about. As usual, with the exception of trying to push the needle on the noise-o-meter higher during a timeout, the loudest cheering occurred when Hinrich's name was announced during the pre-game introductions. That alone has sent a very clear message to management: to hell with all the potential superstars Krause allegedly collected. Bulls fans want to see a team that reflects the same kind of qualities that the rookie has demonstrated all year long. And you know what? Even the 3 C's aren't dumb enough not to have drawn the very same conclusion. Problem is, I don't think any of them care.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

I wonder if Curry for Kwame is still possible


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

As much as I hate giving away talent and potential, I won't stand for another season of broken dreams. If the 2 C's play with no heart and desire and the third can't play with his head straight, then I don't want them. How much really can they improve on their attitudes? If you think Skiles is stubborn, how much more are the young boys? It would just be easier to get new and different players.

Portland traded immensely talented guys for guys with character. Our guys may not have drug/violent problems, but they have character issues and I, for one, will take less talent in exchange for players that want to work hard to win.


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

So we are doomed. Draft projects look very week, free agents market is not for us (we prefer to shop for NBDL players) and our “franchise” players are million light years from being a “real deal”. I have one question for you folks: can season ticket holder start lawsuit against Bulls based on their extremely poor performance and effort? Another thing: it should be game between NBA players and Bulls are not NBA players…


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

"It's so tough right now. There's no excitement like a playoff or tournament," said Bulls rookie Kirk Hinrich, who went to the Final Four with Kansas the last two years. "It's just hard for me because tonight these guys (the Cavs) are playing for a playoff spot. It would just be fun to be a part of it." 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38063174

He's just a rookie and already he's echoing similar sentiments that kept free agents away from Chicago during Krause's rebuilding program. Who wants to play for a perpetual loser? During this past season we've heard Crawford remark several times about how happy he is with the team's progress. Most recently he said: _"It's very important because we're not the worst team,'' Crawford said. "We're getting better, and it's very important not to finish with the worst record -- and we won't.''_ 

How can Crawford make statements like this with a straight face? Getting better??? BTW, wasn't he the guy who guarranteed fans that the Bulls would make the playoffs and start the season 6-0? Now he's guarranteeing fans that the Bulls won't end the season with the worst record. I've had enough of his BS. The sooner he takes his phony _all talk-no action_ butt somewhere else the better off we'll be. 

Next we have Eddy Curry who thinks its enough to admit he played poorly but bristles at the thought that he might be removed from the lineup for his lousy performances:

"We got manhandled in the paint,'' Bulls coach Scott Skiles said. "We didn't show up, and right now, we're having a hard time showing up. I'm going to put guys out there who look like they want to play basketball, whatever that means.''

Skiles said that could mean a change in the starting lineup, and Eddy Curry is a possible casualty. After Ilgauskas had 10 points and nine rebounds in the first quarter, Curry played just six minutes in the final three quarters. Curry said he will feel like a scapegoat if he gets demoted.

''If it happens, we'll talk about it then,'' Curry said. "I'll definitely have something to say then.

"[Ilgauskas] played great, and I didn't play so great. I'm not thinking about playing time. I'm thinking about the end result. We got murdered, and Z killed me. When I was out there, I wasn't doing much.''

These guys truly don't get it. They really don't. Crawford wants fans to believe that this team is getting better. Someone clue him in that the only thing that matters is winning. Bulls fans may be unbelieveably loyal, but they aren't stupid. Oh, and Eddy, no one cares if you become upset if you're benched. If you don't like the word "scapegoat" why don't you try replacing it with a different word, like "loser" or "marshmallow" or "flop."

Really, who wants to go through another season watching and listening to guys like these? Not me.


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## Bullhawk (Sep 8, 2003)

I could not have said things any better myself C Blizzy. This is why you are the single best poster on this site.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

Interesting. Maybe Jamal Crawford and George W. Bush are the same person. They are both trying their hardest to spin some really crappy performances.

And the funny thing is they are about equally as effective in their performance and their spinning.


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullhawk</b>!
> I could not have said things any better myself C Blizzy. This is why you are the single best poster on this site.


:clap: :clap:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dan Rosenbaum</b>!
> Interesting. Maybe Jamal Crawford and George W. Bush are the same person. They are both trying their hardest to spin some really crappy performances.
> 
> And the funny thing is they are about equally as effective in their performance and their spinning.


I dunno... he sounds a lot more like John Kerry in form to me. Kerry tells everyone the sky is falling, rakes in the suckers believe it. Jamal says everything is wonderful and rakes in the suckers who believe it.

But hey, this is a basketball board... which is why I think talking about politics here is pretty lame.... I come here to get away from that kind of garbage.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

I've got a feeling that the Bulls marketing machine is going to have to work some serious magic in order to get even a 50% renewal on season ticket holders. I spend $159 for league pass so I can watch the Bulls. I watch plenty of other games, especially after a game like last night because I have to keep reminding myself that there are teams out there that actually try. The money isn't that big of a deal. Now, if I'm shelling out thousands of dollars to deal with Chicago traffic, cold weather, parking and such and then I get treated to insipid players simply going thru the motions - then I'd be upset.

As for Curry. He really should sit. He was flat-out intimidated by Ilgauskas. If he can't step up to even a simple challenge like playing with some heart and pride maybe his pride should take a beating by sitting for a while. It was disgusting to watch Big Z and Boozer simply do whatever they wanted. Then you've got the guys who really try but simply aren't good enough in DuPree and Johnson.

If there was a way to do it, I'd encourage every fan and paying ticketholder to boycott the final home game of the season. Send a message to the ownership of this club the mealticket that is the fan is about to leave town. Six years of this crap and this team is still years away from even being competetive. This franchise deserves to have attendence numbers like they did in the old stadium where if 3,500 people showed up that was a large crowd (pre jordan days).

I doubt I watch too many more of the final games this season. It's just far too frustrating to watch people who get paid large sums of money make a mockery of a game that I love with a passion.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Bulls fans pray for Emeka Okafor. If we draft him one if not both of our young bigs are gone. How refreshing would that be?


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IntheBlinkofaDeng</b>!
> Bulls fans pray for Emeka Okafor. If we draft him one if not both of our young bigs are gone. How refreshing would that be?


Everyone except Hinrich should be cut…


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> I've got a feeling that the Bulls marketing machine is going to have to work some serious magic in order to get even a 50% renewal on season ticket holders. I spend $159 for league pass so I can watch the Bulls. I watch plenty of other games, especially after a game like last night because I have to keep reminding myself that there are teams out there that actually try.


But hey, you got some free Nascar out of it 

Man, you know one of the things that really excited me over the past few years was the slim possibility that Michael Heisley brought the Griz to Chicago, so I could like them without feeling like too much of a traitor. And having competition in the local market might at least exert some pressure on the Bulls to put a better product on the floor (then again, it might lead them to give up trying entirely).

Anyway, I hear you. I probably won't be re-upping for the League Pass either. Too expensive to watch this nonsense, and between work and school, I don't have the time to watch a lot of other teams.

Going to the games? Well, I've made it to three Wizards games so far this year, and that's at basically $20/ticket. If I were paying season ticket prices, plus all the extra junk, there's no freaking way I'd be doing it. I can't imagine Bulls fans doing any more than Wizards fans... the teams are equally bad.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robert60446</b>!
> 
> Everyone except Hinrich should be cut…


Aren't Hinrich's quotes... pretty much saying he's having a hard time getting up for "unexciting" games the kind of thing that would get one of the 3Cs crucified for being unprofessional?

I'm not saying he is, and I'm not saying they aren't, but it's apparent to me that the bigger problem is they don't play worth a damn.

Curry and Chandler, and our max player Davis as well, they were absolute dogs out there.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

SOP for this board. Curry has a bad game and everyone is all over him. He's been playing well of late, hard to imagine that he would have a hard time with all star Z or his partner in crime Carlos Boozer huh? Crawford actually played well and still catches flack because of a statement he made like a month ago saying the team is improving and trying to be positive. I know for sure if he had talked about how much the team sucked he would be vilified for that as well. Didn't we BEAT Cleveland the last time we played them? Now we have guys like Linton Johnson, Dupree, Shirley and Pargo playing. Of COURSE we aren't competetive! Hell, the starters actually managed to keep things close and then the bench comes in and gets absolutely destroyed. I'd say we should start looking at the guys Pax has brought in to "help" this club.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> SOP for this board. Curry has a bad game and everyone is all over him.


He deserves to have everyone all over him!



> He's been playing well of late, hard to imagine that he would have a hard time with all star Z or his partner in crime Carlos Boozer huh?


Not really, it's pretty easy to imagine him stinking up the court.



> Crawford actually played well and still catches flack because of a statement he made like a month ago saying the team is improving and trying to be positive. I know for sure if he had talked about how much the team sucked he would be vilified for that as well.


OK, I somewhat agree with this... what's he supposed to say? We suck and we're going to lose a lot down the stretch?



> Didn't we BEAT Cleveland the last time we played them? Now we have guys like Linton Johnson, Dupree, Shirley and Pargo playing. Of COURSE we aren't competetive! Hell, the starters actually managed to keep things close and then the bench comes in and gets absolutely destroyed. I'd say we should start looking at the guys Pax has brought in to "help" this club.


As far as I can see, the starters we getting destroyed too. Curry, Chandler, and Davis too all got used and abused at the Cavs' win. They weren't keeping it close, they were getting their asses handed to them.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> SOP for this board. Curry has a bad game and everyone is all over him. He's been playing well of late, hard to imagine that he would have a hard time with all star Z or his partner in crime Carlos Boozer huh? Crawford actually played well and still catches flack because of a statement he made like a month ago saying the team is improving and trying to be positive. I know for sure if he had talked about how much the team sucked he would be vilified for that as well. Didn't we BEAT Cleveland the last time we played them? Now we have guys like Linton Johnson, Dupree, Shirley and Pargo playing. Of COURSE we aren't competetive! Hell, the starters actually managed to keep things close and then the bench comes in and gets absolutely destroyed. I'd say we should start looking at the guys Pax has brought in to "help" this club.


Its the type of bad game that Curry had that gets me. He was completely and unequivocably intimidated. He looked like a beaten puppy out there. Rather than stepping up his game and his effort to try to match Ilgauskas, Curry tucked his tail between his legs and hid. Also, I believe it was a mix of bench and starters that trimmed Clevelands' first half 16 point bulge down to 2 just before half time. Noticably absent from our futile surge was one, Eddy Curry. It was the starters comming out in the third that, as usual, stunk it up and allowed the Cavs to quickly rebuild a double-digit lead.

Personally, I thought the only two players who were worth a damn last night were Crawford and Hinrich. I love the Alphabet Crew's hustle but they just don't have near enough talent to compete. I'd fully agree with you that the players (and I use that term loosely) that Pax has brought in are a major part of the problem.


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> SOP for this board. Curry has a bad game and everyone is all over him.


Bad game or bad career? :laugh:


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robert60446</b>!
> 
> 
> Bad game or bad carrier? :laugh:


I didn't know he owned a carrier, are we talking about air craft or animal or what?


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't know he owned a carrier, are we talking about air craft or animal or what?


My bad...


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robert60446</b>!
> 
> 
> My bad...



your bad carrier? :grinning:


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Break up Curry and Chandler IMO. Jerry Krause had visions of two 7 footers dominating the East for years to come. Three years later, it ain't happening. And you know what? It will never happen.

How do Curry and Chandler compare with Boozer/Z/Diop and SAR/Ratliff? Which grouping of players would you rather have? Reason being, Booze/Z/Diop did nothing w/o Lebron and SAR/Ratliff led the Hawks nowhere in the East. Are Curry and Chandler franchise talents? Highly questionable.

The fact is every year since 2001 there have been big men that <b>I WOULD RATHER HAVE ON THE BULLS</b> than Chandler and Curry. 2002 Yao Ming (duh), Amare, and possibly Nene. 2003 in Bosh. 2004 could be Andriuskevicius and Pavel. Hello people... the league is getting better big men while we're painfully waiting for ours to develop hands, jump for rebounds, and give consistent effort. 

 :sigh:


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

I agree with the DaBullz, its not so much the young talent its the talent around them. We should never have drafted Jason Williams. That Clipper trade is looking mighty good right about now. I would have jumped on it like a wolverine if I were Krause. No need to waste another pick. The Bulls need to package the pick and a player to get anything even close to an allstar calibur player. Anotine Walker doesnt look so bad now.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> Anotine Walker doesnt look so bad now.


Yes he does,

don't you see, there are no quick fixes... miles, apon miles ahead of this sorry francise. 

Mike I agree about league pass,

The money is nothing -- You can recover $160 in ramen quickly -- It's the time. Nothing good is coming from any of this. It's time to go be productive and doing something that we will actually enjoy.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Curry's game last night was more than a bad game. He never showed up. He took the night off, imo. 

Enough of all of this. Chicago deserves much better than they are getting.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> If there was a way to do it, * I'd encourage every fan and paying ticketholder to boycott the final home game of the season.* Send a message to the ownership of this club the mealticket that is the fan is about to leave town. Six years of this crap and this team is still years away from even being competetive. This franchise deserves to have attendence numbers like they did in the old stadium where if 3,500 people showed up that was a large crowd (pre jordan days).


fl_flash...right on the money with this one...hit 'em where it hurts. only problem is, the tickets are probably already paid for, so each fan would have to eat the cost. but then they could send them into the bulls front office and ask for a refund. imagine fans sending sacks and sacks of mail with unused tickets enclosed asking for their money back. not that it would happen but it would make a statement. 

i can't believe i was actually upset about the league pass/totally nascar snafu last night...geeez. 

and as far as the hinrich quote getting him "crucified"...c'mon mikedc! the kid is one year removed from NCAA tournament play and back to back final fours - winning basketball is all he has ever known. i certainly don't begrudge him this statement. at least he still tries. 

the nbdl experiment seems to be going horribly wrong so far...and to think i initially thought it was a bold move to be commended. my bad. 

i think a last home game boycott is the only way to get through to them. it would be something for the sportcenter highlights, and that, jamal, i _would_ guarantee.

kaboom...what's that? oh just the sound of it getting blown up. again.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> 
> and as far as the hinrich quote getting him "crucified"...c'mon mikedc! the kid is one year removed from NCAA tournament play and back to back final fours - winning basketball is all he has ever known. i certainly don't begrudge him this statement. at least he still tries.


No, I'm not holding it against him either. But I am trying to temper my criticism for the team with some level of objectivity. And my point wasn't that he should be criticised, but that I think other players have been criticised (somewhat unfairly) for saying about the same thing. There are plenty of worthwhile things to criticise about this sorry mess, I'm just saying that reading the tea leaves of particular statements doesn't always get us that far.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Jerry Krause's Rebuilding Plan:


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> No, I'm not holding it against him either. But I am trying to temper my criticism for the team with some level of objectivity. And my point wasn't that he should be criticised, but that I think other players have been criticised (somewhat unfairly) for saying about the same thing. There are plenty of worthwhile things to criticise about this sorry mess, I'm just saying that reading the tea leaves of particular statements doesn't always get us that far.


hmmm. ok. see where you're coming from.  

and for the most part i think that the criticism the players have received this year, in the press, is of their own doing, so i don't think it's been terribly unfair. but the line might get blurred here on this board - cause lord knows it's been pretty brutal around here sometimes!!

you know, bulls.com surfs this page regularly but never posts - wonder if some of this stuff gets back to management or the players? 

if it does, in a word: BOYCOTT!!!!!

:laugh:


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## epic (Mar 16, 2004)

man i wish they were this bad last year.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> No, I'm not holding it against him either. But I am trying to temper my criticism for the team with some level of objectivity. And my point wasn't that he should be criticised, but that I think other players have been criticised (somewhat unfairly) for saying about the same thing. There are plenty of worthwhile things to criticise about this sorry mess, I'm just saying that reading the tea leaves of particular statements doesn't always get us that far.


I agree Mikedc 

Kirk made similar lets not finish last comments as well 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bull173.html



> "We haven't talked about it, but personally, it means a lot [not to finish last],'' Hinrich said. "We're not going to make the playoffs, but we can salvage some pride at the end of the season.


You think if You asked Kirk has the team improved and are they the worst team in the league he would say "yeah". I guarantee he would say they have improved and and while the record doesnt show it they know they arent the worst team in the league .


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> Break up Curry and Chandler IMO. Jerry Krause had visions of two 7 footers dominating the East for years to come. Three years later, it ain't happening. And you know what? It will never happen.
> 
> How do Curry and Chandler compare with Boozer/Z/Diop and SAR/Ratliff? Which grouping of players would you rather have? Reason being, Booze/Z/Diop did nothing w/o Lebron and SAR/Ratliff led the Hawks nowhere in the East. Are Curry and Chandler franchise talents? Highly questionable.
> ...


This is so true. When will we as Bulls' fans realize this? Krause banked the future on going with the twin towers because he felt in due time we would dominate the weak East. He didn't count on the East rapidly improving. LeBron is about to make the playoffs as a rookie and soon enough we're going to enter the King James/Ming era of basketball. Can we compete with those teams? Heck, can we even make the playoffs? Simply put, big men and cellar dweller teams are improving at a much greater pace than we are. The Pacers are young and still improving. Detroit has the looks of a serious contender. 

Eventually we're gonna have to cut our losses with this current plan. Maybe if Pax is slick he can unload Curry and Tyson for cap space and draft picks in 2005. Go after TMac and KMart. Field a team with some heart. 

I guess the more I look at it, the more I see the GS Warriors. The teams always had talent, but they could never turn that talent into wins.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> I dunno... he sounds a lot more like John Kerry in form to me. Kerry tells everyone the sky is falling, rakes in the suckers believe it. Jamal says everything is wonderful and rakes in the suckers who believe it.
> ...


MikeDC, lives in Washington, has locked atleast 3 politic threads. My guess is that you work in politics?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> MikeDC, lives in Washington, has locked atleast 3 politic threads. My guess is that you work in politics?


And then he brings up George Bush and the NASCAR thing...

:grinning:


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> And then he brings up George Bush and the NASCAR thing...
> ...


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> And then he brings up George Bush and the NASCAR thing...
> ...


I didnt read that one. But I do know if you put a thread up, marked OT no less, and it contains the words: Democrats, Republicans, George Bush, John Kerry, its a lock to be locked or thrown to EBB by DC within the hour


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I didnt read that one. But I do know if you put a thread up, marked OT no less, and it contains the words: Democrats, Republicans, George Bush, John Kerry, its a lock to be locked or thrown to EBB by DC within the hour


I was born in Baltimore and lived in DC for several years. Then we moved to Chicago and I spent 20+ there. Here's an observation for you.

I have never seen such a segregated place as this northern city. It isn't just white/black (north/south sides), but by all ethnicities. There's Greek neighborhoods, Italian neighborhoods, Puerto Rican neighborhoods, etc. Seems like everyone has their place, if you know what I mean.

When I left Chicago in 1985, the local news was about house fires and local politics. The local politics was great, too. TV footage of aldermen throwing their shoes at eachother and so on. And the very interesting figures who were mayor.

By 1990 the news changed. I still get WGN news on cable and the coverage is remarkably different. Now it's murder, murder, murder. No politics, no house fires.

One more observation about Chicago. The city is at least 75% democrats and probably closer to 95%. There hasn't been a republican mayor there in my lifetime, and probably not in my father's or grandfathers'... In 1983 (I think it was), Richard Daley Jr., Jane Byrne, and Washington basically tied in the democrat primaries. Washington won 32% to 31% each for the other two.

How did those democrat voters support their candidate? Bernard Upton, a cannon fodder unknown lawyer from some LaSalle Street firm ran as the republican and got nearly 50% of the vote in the general election. 

I can go on about how the democrats turned the projects (Cabrini Green et al) into concentration camps for black people or how they divert education funds from inner city schools elsewhere. But I want to focus on Washington. 

I liked Washington and voted for him. The only problem I had with him was that in his zeal to give out city contracts to black contracting firms (that's REAL affirmative action at its best, IMO), he ended up grinding the city freeways to a halt. All other mayors were clever enough to do work on one freeway at a time, while Washington had all the freeways under construction at once. And traffic was miserable.

(And maybe this is way OT and all that, but it is about Chicago. Maybe it'll end up being moved anyway).

Peace!


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> I was born in Baltimore and lived in DC for several years. Then we moved to Chicago and I spent 20+ there. Here's an observation for you.
> ...


i just dont know enough about chicago politics to know all the data. I remember when Washington died, it was a sad day at my school. They let us all out early. And I do know Chicago is a hugely democratic city. Maybe thats one of ther easons I am a staunch democrat. I know there is a ton of corruption in the city, but maybe less so now then there was then, but still some. But my guess is that Chicago politics is a little less fun compared to a city like Providence RI. The Mayor there was a known Mobster. Had a man killed, served 10 years, ran for mayor again and won 70% of the vote. incredible. and even today, he is being investigated by the FBI for racketeering. And the Philly mayor was being hunted by the FBI too. Chicago hasnt gotten to that point yet, to my knowledge

Interesting on Baltimore. I was born in Amsterdam but moved to Baltimore as an infant. after a couple of stops, I spend about 14 years there. So our backgrouds are similar


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

here's how i'd fix the bulls....

1. resign crawford this off season...let him play the point...we were doing so well when crawford played point at the end of last season....

2. trade chandler for someone that won't get hurt so easily and that actually has some sort of offense.

3. trade hinrich because his trade value is so high now...i doubt it will get any higher than it currently is. acquire either a shooting guard or small forward.

4. combine option 2 and 3 and our draft pick for allen iverson.

5. sign a cheap defensive stopper as small forward


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> here's how i'd fix the bulls....
> 
> 3. trade hinrich because his trade value is so high now...i doubt it will get any higher than it currently is. acquire either a shooting guard or small forward.


His trade value is very low, because he is still on his rookie contract…but more important is: Hinrich is your future star and you must build around Kirk, not Jamal.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> i just dont know enough about chicago politics to know all the data. I remember when Washington died, it was a sad day at my school. They let us all out early. And I do know Chicago is a hugely democratic city. Maybe thats one of ther easons I am a staunch democrat. I know there is a ton of corruption in the city, but maybe less so now then there was then, but still some. But my guess is that Chicago politics is a little less fun compared to a city like Providence RI. The Mayor there was a known Mobster. Had a man killed, served 10 years, ran for mayor again and won 70% of the vote. incredible. and even today, he is being investigated by the FBI for racketeering. And the Philly mayor was being hunted by the FBI too. Chicago hasnt gotten to that point yet, to my knowledge
> ...


I'm a libertarian. I oppose left-wing populism as much as I do right-wing populism. I think the only govt. programs really worth a damn are vouchers, because they empower people to make their own choices (and I have a LOT of faith in people as individuals). Like FHA, VA, and GI Bill are the only real govt. programs I can point to that are huge successes.

As a libertarian, I tend to be more anti-left wing, anti-democratic party because I just don't believe in collectives that are forced on people (opt-in is another matter). I am not borg, I will not be assimilated, if you know what I mean.

(The libertarian thing shows up in how I moderate the boards, too, and I think it really shows).


Peace!


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

hinrich value is very high now...everyone is raving about him...yet when we think about it, this guy is probably gonna be a eric snow/hornacek/ a miller kind of guy. this was discussed in another thread here at bbb. and no way in hell do you build a team around snow/hornacek/miller. 

if you want a superstar, there is one for the taking now in allen iverson. his emotional play on the court will elevate curry and jamals game to new levels. we all know jamal and curry have talent and iverson will bring it out of them. hell, he brought a bunch of scrubs to the finals.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm a libertarian. I oppose left-wing populism as much as I do right-wing populism. I think the only govt. programs really worth a damn are vouchers, because they empower people to make their own choices (and I have a LOT of faith in people as individuals). Like FHA, VA, and GI Bill are the only real govt. programs I can point to that are huge successes.
> ...


it doesnt surprise me. I can see that. Libertarians are an interesting party. 

For me, I am a democrat. I wont just vote for democrats blindly however. For instance I voted for Bloomberg for mayor of NYC and McCain for senator of Arizona when I was in school there. 

But the path the country and the world has taken over since W took over in the past 4 years has pushed me so far to the left. And I am not sure that I can come back. We have seen what conservatism has done. And it might have to take a real liberal agenda to unwind the damage

Isnt it interesting how politics change. From a little place like Chicago to the world or the US. 10 years ago the democrats were free spending nut cases. Another the democrats are known as the fiscally responsible party while the republicans are the free wielding "spending like drunk sailors" (John McCain) party. 

How long til DC locks this? I have 40 minutes or less!


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> hinrich value is very high now...everyone is raving about him...yet when we think about it, this guy is probably gonna be a eric snow/hornacek/ a miller kind of guy. this was discussed in another thread here at bbb. and no way in hell do you build a team around snow/hornacek/miller.
> 
> if you want a superstar, there is one for the taking now in allen iverson. his emotional play on the court will elevate curry and jamals game to new levels. we all know jamal and curry have talent and iverson will bring it out of them. hell, he brought a bunch of scrubs to the finals.


question for Bullhawk or any of other KU guys, would Hinrich actually ask for a trade? it wouldnt surprise me.


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> hinrich value is very high now...everyone is raving about him...


PM NCBullsFan for “NBA trades-basic rules and trade values” crash course.


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> question for Bullhawk or any of other KU guys, would Hinrich actually ask for a trade? it wouldnt surprise me.


There is no way that we should let Hinrich go! He is the future!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> it doesnt surprise me. I can see that. Libertarians are an interesting party.
> ...


I didn't vote for W, and won't this time, either.

But I don't have a problem with his policies. In fact, he's so miserable at expressing himself that he can't make the really good argument that his economic policies may well have saved the US from an outright depression (not just a recession, mind you). 

I also think Bush has done a lot of the liberal agenda. Medicare/prescription drugs, AIDS funds for Africa, and so on. And as you pointed out, he's been spending money like he's a liberal democrat.

As an aside, I do not like the word "liberal" to describe left-wing philosopy. There's nothing liberal about it. Progressive is the correct term. I am the real Liberal!

Peace!


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robert60446</b>!
> 
> 
> There is no way that we should let Hinrich go! He is the future!


i am not saying we should mate, I am asking what the odds are that he walks into Paxs office and says he just doesnt want to be here anymore? I mean, Brand did it, so Id like to know if Kirk would. Thats all


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> i am not saying we should mate, I am asking what the odds are that he walks into Paxs office and says he just doesnt want to be here anymore? I mean, Brand did it, so Id like to know if Kirk would. Thats all


Hmmm...it is hard to get inside Kirks head, but BullHawk may have an answer for you. It could be interesting…


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

this thread is now a weird combination of basketball and politics... :laugh: 

anyway, i don't see hinrich asking for a trade.
he just doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would do that. you know, just give up when the going gets bad. but what do i know. his rookie season sure has been a baptism by fire. that what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger. i think he gives it at least another season - meaning, having a whole summer to work out, get stronger, and a training camp under skiles, etc. 

and besides, they'd be UTTER FOOLS to let him go. as robertzipcode pointed out, he's still on his rookie contract...so what would it really get you? 

i think hinrich and eddy are the future and everybody else is fair game.


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> as robertzipcode pointed out, he's still on his rookie contract...so what would it really get you?


I like your robertzipcode impression!


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> this thread is now a weird combination of basketball and politics... :laugh:
> 
> anyway, i don't see hinrich asking for a trade.
> ...


probably. But I thought the same thing about Elton Brand and apparently told Krause that he would like out. So it can happen. I dont think its above him. But if the Bulls are serious about getting a star (pierce perhaps), you can bet your bottom dollar Kirk will be asked for. Thats the dilemna


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*"I feel I'm kind of meant to play in Chicago," Hinrich said. "The city is blue-collar. It's how I play. I'm a guy willing to do the little things. I've had to work for everything I've ever gotten. And to play in front of fans like we have who come every night even though we haven't been winning, it motivates you."* 

this quote from that Sam Smith article that ran around the time of the All-Star break this year.

hopefully he stays motivated in chicago.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> *"I feel I'm kind of meant to play in Chicago," Hinrich said. "The city is blue-collar. It's how I play. I'm a guy willing to do the little things. I've had to work for everything I've ever gotten. And to play in front of fans like we have who come every night even though we haven't been winning, it motivates you."*
> 
> this quote from that Sam Smith article that ran around the time of the All-Star break this year.
> ...


I hope so too. But losing has a way of wearing down a kid. Brand said nearly the same stuff 2 months before he asked for a trade


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

because hinrich is on his cheap rookie contract, that is why we can trade him along with chandler and our pick for a superstar like iverson....no one will give us anything for jamal...if they really want him, they will just sign him...hinrich on the other hand, with his current high market value can give us the superstar we need.

iverson, crawford, curry, and role players.....this team would definitely make the playoffs.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

i think the opposite can be argued, that cause of Kirks deal actually raisies his stock some. He is a good player on a cheap deal. Someone might actually take crap like Erob just to get their hands on Kirk


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## Bullhawk (Sep 8, 2003)

Without revealing too much information Kirk has not nor will he demand a trade. That quote from Sam Smith that mizenkay referenced to is Kirk in a nutshell. He will put on his hard hat and come to work every day. Having said that he is very frustrated and has voiced his displeasure at things. He has been assured that corrective measures for the Bulls problems will be taken. Bottomline he remains a Bull until that rookie contract is up. If they have surrounded him with a quality team by then he resigns. If not and the team is still loaded with a bunch of losers like it has now then he would sign with someone else. Kirk is committed to making the Bulls a winner. He just wants players with him to go with war with. He does not have them right now.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullhawk</b>!
> Without revealing too much information Kirk has not nor will he demand a trade. That quote from Sam Smith that mizenkay referenced to is Kirk in a nutshell. He will put on his hard hat and come to work every day. Having said that he is very frustrated and has voiced his displeasure at things. He has been assured that corrective measures for the Bulls problems will be taken. Bottomline he remains a Bull until that rookie contract is up. If they have surrounded him with a quality team by then he resigns. If not and the team is still loaded with a bunch of losers like it has now then he would sign with someone else. Kirk is committed to making the Bulls a winner. He just wants players with him to go with war with. He does not have them right now.


interesting. thanks


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> MikeDC, lives in Washington, has locked atleast 3 politic threads. My guess is that you work in politics?


I haven't locked *ANY* politics threads. I only brought up the Kerry thing to equal out the Bush thing . I just moved them to EBB, because that's where you can discuss them to your heart's content without having this board become a political slugfest. I don't think that's too much to ask, is it?  

I'm probably more sensitive to that than most, but I really don't think this is the _right_ forum to be going off about that, because I've seen in several places just how nuts it gets. And beyond that, I'm not that comfortable spouting off my own stupid views of the day because I have an official role here that requires me to be as fair and open-minded as possible with regards to everyone. That becomes orders of magnitude more difficult if everyone (myself included) on a freaking sports forum is busy vesting themselves in and getting worked up over political viewpoints.

Pretty please?



> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> And then he brings up George Bush and the NASCAR thing...
> :grinning:


When did I do this?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullhawk</b>!
> Without revealing too much information Kirk has not nor will he demand a trade. That quote from Sam Smith that mizenkay referenced to is Kirk in a nutshell. He will put on his hard hat and come to work every day. Having said that he is very frustrated and has voiced his displeasure at things. He has been assured that corrective measures for the Bulls problems will be taken. Bottomline he remains a Bull until that rookie contract is up. If they have surrounded him with a quality team by then he resigns. If not and the team is still loaded with a bunch of losers like it has now then he would sign with someone else. Kirk is committed to making the Bulls a winner. He just wants players with him to go with war with. He does not have them right now.


thanks bullhawk. he just doesn't strike me as a quitter which is why i dug up that quote.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I'm probably more sensitive to that than most, but I really don't think this is the _right_ forum to be going off about that, because I've seen in several places just how nuts it gets. And beyond that, I'm not that comfortable spouting off my own stupid views of the day because I have an official role here that requires me to be as fair and open-minded as possible with regards to everyone. That becomes orders of magnitude more difficult if everyone (myself included) on a freaking sports forum is busy vesting themselves in and getting worked up over political viewpoints.


I was pointing out that lots of folks try to spin things, and in that way it sounds like what Jamal Crawford was trying to do a month ago is similar to what politicians like George W. Bush (or John Kerry) do all of the time. It was another way of putting what Crawford said in some perspective.

Yes, I did compare the performance of Crawford and Bush, but it seems to me that coming pretty darn close to calling anyone who supports Kerry a "sucker," is doing exactly what your quote above says you don't like doing.

Sincerely,
Dan "The Sucker" Rosenbaum


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dan Rosenbaum</b>!
> 
> 
> I was pointing out that lots of folks try to spin things, and in that way it sounds like what Jamal Crawford was trying to do a month ago is similar to what politicians like George W. Bush do all of the time. It was another way of putting what Crawford said in some perspective.
> ...


Uh, yes, I think you've stumbled onto EXACTLY the point I was trying to make :yes:


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> i am not saying we should mate, I am asking what the odds are that he walks into Paxs office and says he just doesnt want to be here anymore? I mean, Brand did it, so Id like to know if Kirk would. Thats all


To which Paxson responded, "I'd love to help you out, Elton, but I'm just the radio color guy."
:grinning:


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> To which Paxson responded, "I'd love to help you out, Elton, but I'm just the radio color guy."
> :grinning:


:laugh: :laugh:


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