# Improved drafting. Players on the Rise



## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

I'm convinced Kiki wont be back after this year. I'm disapointed in our draft class this year, and cant believe we didnt either a)trade up for granger b)draft garcia c) draft salim stoudamire 

With Nene going down with an injury its almost certain he will be involved in a sign and trade over the summer. Plus we have three points guards crowded into our roster, and overall I dont think this roster is designed the way its needs to be for carmelo anthony. From the play i've seen in college basketball so far I think the Nuggets need to secure at least two first round draft picks for this coming season. There are several players that are going to be NBA ready for next year. Several players out there that can replace Nene as well.

The number one player in college basketball is Adam Morrison right now. He will no doubt be a top 3 pick in the NBA draft. His improved 3 point shooting is really going to put him on the map. This guy could help a lot of teams with their half court sets. He moves without the ball well, and moves well once he has the ball. Morrison has guard skills similar to Hamilton, although he already is shown he can create once he has the ball better than Hamilton. Yes, I am willing to draw a comparison to Larry Bird at this point. Morrison looks like a legit 6'8 or 6'9 G/F. He will only be an average defender in the NBA, but he is capable. Morrison will slide up the draft boards very soon. However, he doesnt make for a good fit for Denver definsively. But the same can be said for Lenard who is our shooting guard now. 

James White will rise to the occasion this year and be the guy on the bearcats. White will step it up this year and prove to be a player worthy of a first round draft pick selection. He is definitely a guy that would be a good player to draft. He's not going to be a "bust" like i'm sure many would now label him, because he could have jumped straight out of high school and been a top 3 pick.

Curtis Stinson has been working on his outside shot as well. Its much improved and he will be the cataylst for the Iowa State offense again this year. Stinson loves the fast break and is a true gamer. He wants the ball when the game is on the line. He is going to be a great point guard in the NBA and will be an excellent defender in the league. He attacks the basket with an array of trick shots and floaters that freezes defenders in the NCAA. He is an excellent alley oop passer, his favorite target being a 5'10 inch point guard. Stinson is the type of point guard NBA scouts and teams are looking for. He wants to distribute the ball and be a team leader. His only weakness is his outside shot, however you could blame that on his inablilty to get good looks last year, because nobody else on the team could shoot them. However, he seems to have improved. If he shoots well over 30% from the three point line this year. He will be a first round pick, easily even though he's not on the draft boards right now. You'll know what I mean if you watch him play. Iowa State has 4 guys on their roster right now that will eventually be pro's. Rahshon Clark. Will Blalock, Curtis Stinson and eventually freshman Shawn Taggart. 

The nuggets have several quality options to replace Nene with that could be in the NBA draft next summer. My top suggestions are these players that could be available in the mid to late first round, Taj Gray, Josh Boone,Darian Townes. Hopefully the next GM will draft guys that are going to work well with Melo. I wasnt impressed with last year's draft. Right now it looks to have been unacceptable. especially for guys that have spent 4 years in college to come in as first round picks and not play. Hodge isnt going to develope and improve like some 18 yr old kid


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Good thread...

I'm not as high as you are though on Morrison. He has good skills, but I think of him more at best a Mike Miller type player in the NBA. Larry Legend not likely, he will have to improve his 3ball a lot out of college like Michael Redd did. Which I think he can, but that will take a few seasons. Remember lots of players are good/great in college, but never amount to much in the NBA. The zags also don't play a high level of competition consistently. Zags beat up on teams like Denver(college). Although I think their competition and schedule is getting stronger as they have become more recognized.

However back to your thread I think what your addressing should be looked in to. I disagree that Kiki will be gone the end of the year, however I have read that he may be heading to Toronto. Guess we will have to wait and see.

As for the other college players. The only things I hear about White are that he can jump, but he's not a very good basketball player. Thats just what I hear around the boards. I havent watched the guy play myself.

Curtis Stinson isn't ringing a bell so I can't comment on him. However I like the Josh Boone idea a lot. Everything I see out of him on the court looks good. A big skilled guy would be a nice fit for the Nuggets coming off the bench.


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## scooter (Oct 22, 2003)

I know we don't have our 2006 pick. We might have Dallas' pick from the GS trade last year. That's going to be very low. I seriously doubt we're going to get anyone in the draft this year that can help right away, especially a big man.

As for the 2005 draft, I like Kleiza. Considering that he's young -- only played 2 years of college -- he shows a good feel for the game together with a willingness to mix it up ala Najera. He's just a lot like Najera -- a hustling overachiever that will make for a good role player.

I don't like the Hodge pick. I know he was an outstanding college player, winning ACC player of the year honors his junior year. But he just reminds me of a 25 year old AAA allstar baseball player -- a guy with good overall skills and good work ethic who just isn't as big, strong or fast as the big leaguers. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I just don't see any great role for him as an NBA player. He's a poor outside shooter and isn't a great athlete. At this point it looks like Stoudemire, Garcia or Head would have been better choices for a perimeter player. Its still possible Hodge will turn out to be similar to Marquis Daniels, a role player type SG whose job is mostly to defend, rebound and pass the ball.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AirJordan said:


> Good thread...
> 
> The zags also don't play a high level of competition consistently. Zags beat up on teams like Denver(college). Although I think their competition and schedule is getting stronger as they have become more recognized.


That Mich. state game was insane. their level of competition is way up. speaking of that game, Ager would be a nice addition to the nuggets. I wouldnt be surpised to see denver make a deal that involves a first round pick coming in for this year. Especially with guys like Taquan Dean and Richard Roby who may go pro. 

I'm not saying Morrison is going to be Larry Legend I just see some striking similarities. Watching this awkward guy move without the ball then get it on the run and make some kinda of funky move and then create room for a shot. He did some insane things. Think about the athletic wings that have been trying to guard this guy. they have ten times his athleticism and they cant handle him. Especially with that three point shot he has been using. Forgeting about the defensive end, having Morrison running around screens and getting open on the outside, and having melo on the block sounds great. Many will argue it wouldnt work out, they play the same position. I just see something in this kid. Part of me just wants to see him go to Boston though.

Another name I havent mentioned is Roy Hibbert (from georgetown) He is a big fella, and some storied post players have come from Georgetown, (we all know them, including Mutombo). He could jump this year if he is guaranteed first round

As for Stinson, a lot of scouts do a poor job of scouting him. They might tell you he has a scoring first mentality and Blalock is the passer. With Blalock on the team Stinson has actually been forced to play the off guard. Stinson actually has amazing vision and will be a pass first point guard in the nba that also will be able to score. 

That and a late first round project might be......http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/mouhamedsene.asp
Everyone is talking about Oden and all the other big names. but there are some guys coming out that are going to be some big times players. I still think Denver should take a good hard look at Alexis Ajinca is 2007.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

As a huge Bearcat fan (hence the screen name), I'll be very surprised if White is a first round pick.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

I'm not happy with the drafting either, but let's not go overboard; no one would have taken Salim that high.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

nugzhomer said:


> I'm not happy with the drafting either, but let's not go overboard; no one would have taken Salim that high.


let me put it this way, last year if you offered me hodge or stoudmire, and I was the denver GM, i would have taken stoudamire


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> As a huge Bearcat fan (hence the screen name), I'll be very surprised if White is a first round pick.


the lakers are going to pick him up in the first round


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

i'M ON THE BRADON ROY BANDWAGON.

GO GET HIM BEARUP OR BARTLESTEIDNS OR WARDELSTIENEDAIDND OR WHOEVER IS RUNNING THE TEAM...


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

Timmons said:


> i'M ON THE BRADON ROY BANDWAGON.
> 
> GO GET HIM BEARUP OR BARTLESTEIDNS OR WARDELSTIENEDAIDND OR WHOEVER IS RUNNING THE TEAM...


cough*george*cough*karl*cough


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> the lakers are going to pick him up in the first round


You tend to turn rumors into facts far too quickly.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

lol i cant believe i didnt pick up on "cpawfan". no wonder ur a k-mart fan...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> You tend to turn rumors into facts far too quickly.


hey, why the hate. im the one that believed he had a chance to go in the first when everyone had him at the bottom of the second round. Phil will want Mardy Collins aka Ron Harper aka Aaron Mckie. The front office is high on "Flight". They need to find a way to get both guys. They need both guys.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> hey, why the hate. im the one that believed he had a chance to go in the first when everyone had him at the bottom of the second round. Phil will want Mardy Collins aka Ron Harper aka Aaron Mckie. The front office is high on "Flight". They need to find a way to get both guys. They need both guys.


Calling Mardy Collins aka Ron Harper is a disgrace to Ron Harper. You really should look up what kind of player Ron was in college and his first few seasons in the NBA.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Im fully aware of the type of points Harper put up early in his career. And no I dont have expectations of Mardy to score that much. But keep in mind most of those teams werent very good at all. Harpers numbers in the mid to latter portion of his career (on very good teams) are much more what I had in mind for Mardy starting a PG on a team like say the lakers next year. 12 points 5 assists 5 rebounds a steal. I could see that from Mardy beating out Smush for the job next season.

Maybe your reading too much into the comparisons. I compare Larry Bird to Adam Morrison too. You can do that you know without having the expectations that Morrison live up to what Bird was. You can certainly recognize Morrisons high ability to score the basketball in a somewhat similar fashion, and defniately notice the high amount of intensity seen in both players.

Same goes for Mardy. He is the closest thing to what Phil Jackson is looking for to run his team. He needed Aaron Mckie out there last year in the playoffs (the McKie that was healthy and could play). So suggesting Phil wants Mardy Collins is pretty safe IMO.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> Im fully aware of the type of points Harper put up early in his career. And no I dont have expectations of Mardy to score that much. But keep in mind most of those teams werent very good at all. Harpers numbers in the mid to latter portion of his career (on very good teams) are much more what I had in mind for Mardy starting a PG on a team like say the lakers next year. 12 points 5 assists 5 rebounds a steal. I could see that from Mardy beating out Smush for the job next season.
> 
> Maybe your reading too much into the comparisons. I compare Larry Bird to Adam Morrison too. You can do that you know without having the expectations that Morrison live up to what Bird was. You can certainly recognize Morrisons high ability to score the basketball in a somewhat similar fashion, and defniately notice the high amount of intensity seen in both players.
> 
> Same goes for Mardy. He is the closest thing to what Phil Jackson is looking for to run his team. He needed Aaron Mckie out there last year in the playoffs (the McKie that was healthy and could play). So suggesting Phil wants Mardy Collins is pretty safe IMO.


No, you really can't compare Morrison to one of the all time best. The list of things they have in common begins and ends with their skin color.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> No, you really can't compare Morrison to one of the all time best. The list of things they have in common begins and ends with their skin color.


in your opinion. there are professional analysts that feel the same as me. While everyone agrees its unfair to expect him to live up to Larry Bird expectations, their certainly are similarities in his game. I've already listed some. I do agree that he will be a huge marketing tool because he is white. NBA Live is already running commercials with him. But I'm talking about his game here not his skin color. Unfortunately due to skin color white american born players are at a disadvantage scouting wise because of obvious reasons. Add that to his diabetes and its very impressive he is getting recognition as the overall top talent in the draft.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> in your opinion. there are professional analysts that feel the same as me. While everyone agrees its unfair to expect him to live up to Larry Bird expectations, their certainly are similarities in his game. I've already listed some. I do agree that he will be a huge marketing tool because he is white. NBA Live is already running commercials with him. But I'm talking about his game here not his skin color. Unfortunately due to skin color white american born players are at a disadvantage scouting wise because of obvious reasons. Add that to his diabetes and its very impressive he is getting recognition as the overall top talent in the draft.


Please don't play the professional analysts card as we can fill libraries with the number of wrong predictions.

Lets see, Bird was an outstanding rebounder, knew how to play the passing lanes on defense and was an amazing passer. Morrison can shot the ball.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> Please don't play the professional analysts card as we can fill libraries with the number of wrong predictions.
> 
> Lets see, Bird was an outstanding rebounder, knew how to play the passing lanes on defense and was an amazing passer. Morrison can shot the ball.


Morrison is also a junior and college and you are talking about an nba great that has won nba championships.

Look, all I am saying is I'm not alone in my opinions. He's a 21 year old kid that has improved drastically in one year, and will continue to improve in the NBA in all areas of his game. He has been working hard all off season. You gotta look at the team he was on too. Its not like Memphis where Williams and Carney played together. Two first round draft picks. This guy was the team so he is going to shoot the ball. I think he displayed improved passing and defense this year, and I think he will turn out fine in the nba. I'm not calling him the next larry bird, but he is the closest thing ive seen in a long time.

So many people are compared to MJ, some more unfairly than others. But I dont tell the people that compared Harold Minor to Jordan... that they just did it because he was black. Thats just nuts. There is a long list of guys that where compared and are compared to him... Jerry Stackhouse VC, etc. All that is no different than me comparing the games of Morrison to Bird. No reason to make a basketball thing a race thing. Its nuts to turn Jordan comparisons into a race thing. Lets not do it just because Morrison is white.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> Morrison is also a junior and college and you are talking about an nba great that has won nba championships.
> 
> Look, all I am saying is I'm not alone in my opinions. He's a 21 year old kid that has improved drastically in one year, and will continue to improve in the NBA in all areas of his game. He has been working hard all off season. You gotta look at the team he was on too. Its not like Memphis where Williams and Carney played together. Two first round draft picks. This guy was the team so he is going to shoot the ball. I think he displayed improved passing and defense this year, and I think he will turn out fine in the nba. I'm not calling him the next larry bird, but he is the closest thing ive seen in a long time.
> 
> So many people are compared to MJ, some more unfairly than others. But I dont tell the people that compared Harold Minor to Jordan... that they just did it because he was black. Thats just nuts. There is a long list of guys that where compared and are compared to him... Jerry Stackhouse VC, etc. All that is no different than me comparing the games of Morrison to Bird. No reason to make a basketball thing a race thing. Its nuts to turn Jordan comparisons into a race thing. Lets not do it just because Morrison is white.


For starters, I'm not comparing Morrison to Bird the NBA player, rather I'm talking about the guy that played at Indiana State. You know the one that averaged 30 PPG, 13 RPG and 4 APG over his 3 years in college. As I said, Morrison isn't close to Bird.

The only reason I mentioned race is because that is essentially all they share in common. It has been a long standing tradition of scouts to compare players to other players of their "skin color." You don't see a black player compared to Larry Bird and you don't see a white player compared to Dr. J. It is an issue and one that is joked about all the time in the Draft and NBA General Forums.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> For starters, I'm not comparing Morrison to Bird the NBA player, rather I'm talking about the guy that played at Indiana State. You know the one that averaged 30 PPG, 13 RPG and 4 APG over his 3 years in college. As I said, Morrison isn't close to Bird.


Morrison his junior year was 28 5.5 1 in college. On a team where he was pretty much the only consistent scoring option (outside of JP in the post). Unfortunately the burden of proof on white athletes to prove themselves to the Birds and other stars of the past is very high. I remember a poster in the nba draft that made of list of white players after bird in the draft to prove how bad what american born players are. And that was his reason for thinking morrison would tank as well.

Morrison is the closest thing to Bird, since Bird. If Morrison had sayed in school his senior season his scoring likely would have eclipsed 30 points per game and his rebounding whould have continued to improve as his all around game continues to improve. Bird first year in the league he got 21 10 and 4. Supposedly Morrison is supposed to end up on the Blazers next year. his first year in the league (while Bird still would have been in college) I project Morrison to be able to average at least Bird's rookie year scoring average plus 6 rebounds and 3 assists per game. I think once he has other scoring options around him (not sure he will have much at least his rookie year) his assists will be fine, I think he basically knew he had to light it up every game for his team to have a chance to win, and his rebounding will be good for his position at SF. If he doesnt live up to anything about Bird it will likely be rebounding. Morrison likely wont ever get 10 rebounds per game. But if he plays big minutes (and i think he will be able to) he could get 6 or 7 his pro career.

More importantly, watching him bury fadaway nba 3s to win college games, and the way he works in the offense reminds me of Larry Bird. **** if people can compare Tyrus Thomas to Shawn Marion and Foye to freakin D Wade. Then let the white man be compared to Larry Bird. Because none of those guys will live up to Marion, Wade, or Bird.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> Morrison his junior year was 28 5.5 1 in college. On a team where he was pretty much the only consistent scoring option (outside of JP in the post). Unfortunately the burden of proof on white athletes to prove themselves to the Birds and other stars of the past is very high. I remember a poster in the nba draft that made of list of white players after bird in the draft to prove how bad what american born players are. And that was his reason for thinking morrison would tank as well.
> 
> Morrison is the closest thing to Bird, since Bird. If Morrison had sayed in school his senior season his scoring likely would have eclipsed 30 points per game and his rebounding whould have continued to improve as his all around game continues to improve. Bird first year in the league he got 21 10 and 4. Supposedly Morrison is supposed to end up on the Blazers next year. his first year in the league (while Bird still would have been in college) I project Morrison to be able to average at least Bird's rookie year scoring average plus 6 rebounds and 3 assists per game. I think once he has other scoring options around him (not sure he will have much at least his rookie year) his assists will be fine, I think he basically knew he had to light it up every game for his team to have a chance to win, and his rebounding will be good for his position at SF. If he doesnt live up to anything about Bird it will likely be rebounding. Morrison likely wont ever get 10 rebounds per game. But if he plays big minutes (and i think he will be able to) he could get 6 or 7 his pro career.
> 
> More importantly, watching him bury fadaway nba 3s to win college games, and the way he works in the offense reminds me of Larry Bird. **** if people can compare Tyrus Thomas to Shawn Marion and Foye to freakin D Wade. Then let the white man be compared to Larry Bird. Because none of those guys will live up to Marion, Wade, or Bird.



You continue to demonstrate that you know very little of Bird. 

1) Bird played 3 season at Indiana State. Yes he was a senior his last season, but he still only played 3 seasons.

2) Bird led a team with less talent than what Morrison had to the National Championship game. Carl Nicks (you know a bad former Nuggets first round pick) was the only other player of note on that team. 

3) Morrison isn't a good passer and do you realize how difficult it is for a forward to average 3 APG? Melo hasn't averaged 3.0 APG yet and he is a far superior passer to Morrison.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> You continue to demonstrate that you know very little of Bird.
> 
> .


I know Bird transferred. My point is only if I know little of Bird, than everyone comparing players to D Wade and Shawn Marion knows very little about them too. 

Its been acceptable for people to compare guys like Foye and Thomas to players the will never be, but do have similarities in their game to, but its not ok to do it with Morrison. Now youd have me if I ever said Morrison would be as good as Bird. But the similarities are their. In personality as well as gamesmanship. Offensively they have similar games. 

Just make sure you arent one of the people comparing any of these kids in the draft to any stars or superstars, because if you are doing it. Your a hyprocrite.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> I know Bird transferred. My point is only if I know little of Bird, than everyone comparing players to D Wade and Shawn Marion knows very little about them too.
> 
> Its been acceptable for people to compare guys like Foye and Thomas to players the will never be, but do have similarities in their game to, but its not ok to do it with Morrison. Now youd have me if I ever said Morrison would be as good as Bird. But the similarities are their. In personality as well as gamesmanship. Offensively they have similar games.
> 
> Just make sure you arent one of the people comparing any of these kids in the draft to any stars or superstars, because if you are doing it. Your a hyprocrite.


I generally hate player comparissons as the nbadraft.net mentality has permiated the internet. Everyone gets compared to stars when very few should be. Just because I'm not picking apart these other comparissons in this thread doesn't mean I support them.

To me Morrison's best case scenario is Glenn Robinson type stats and I don't believe he'll get there.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Not a bad pick on my part with "Flight" once labeled a lated 2nd pick at best. He came within one pick of going in the first round, and if Farmar hadnt fell (and you cant blame the lakers for taking him), he would have been drafted in the 1st


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## melo4life (Jun 5, 2006)

i doubt we will do much trading but i hope we trade like kmart with someone like eisley for iverson


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