# Vince Carter



## BlakeJesus

I understand we aren't even half way through the season, but I think you Magic fans have had a decent enough sample size to at least have an opinion one way or the other.

Do you think adding Vince Carter was the best move for this team? I'm not asking if you think Vince Carter is a better player than Hedo, because he is. I'm asking if you think Carter was an upgrade to this team in terms of winning a championship. 

Hedo had a very specific skillset, including his height, that meshed well with the team and created mismatches against other teams. Hedo is not nearly as potent a scorer, is not the defender Carter is by any means. But Hedo was able to run that little pick and roll move with Dwight over and over again, and it just couldn't be stopped. He was also a fantastic inbounds passer, three point shooter, and decision maker.

I ask this mainly because Vince is shooting 39% from the field as this teams number one scorer.


----------



## seifer0406

I think the most frustrating thing is having your highest paid player posting 14/5 for the season. If the Magic never make it back to the finals it all goes back to them overpaying Rashard Lewis by about 10 mil a year. With both VC and Shard over 30 I don't see Orlando becoming much better than what they already are and with Lewis's albatross of a contract they will have to do with what they have.

As for Vince I said it before the season started that this is his last chance to prove his doubters wrong about him not being a winner and not able to elevate a team to the next level. So far things are not looking good for him or his royal followers.


----------



## HB

I dont know whats going on anymore. Rashard Lewis first said, Vince dominates the ball, thats why he has been in a funk this season. When Lewis was out 10 games, the Magic were playing some of their best ball with Anderson starting.

The last two games, Lewis has put up 13points, 4rebs, 5 of 17 shooting. Guess what? Vince hasn't been playing either.

Vince's shooting numbers are bad, and I think the team meshed well with Williams and Anderson starting rather than Meer and Lewis. Maybe its too many chefs working on the soup, something's funky with the Magic right now. I dont know how else they could play Vince though, he has to at least take 15 shots a night.


----------



## BlakeJesus

I think Lewis' struggles stem back to the absence of Hedo.


----------



## Fray

Carter has been banged up and not playing well but many other players on this team haven't been playing well recently either. Before the season is over I think it will be widely accepted that acquiring VC was an upgrade over Hedo. In the playoffs it will be especially noticeable.


----------



## Babir

Rashard Lewis can't play PF. That's all. They should go to the proper NBA lineup. You can't play THAT small! With midget on the PG in Nelson, with offensively limited C-Howard, and soft so called PF Rashard Lewis. yes, and SVG is the terrible coach.


----------



## HB

The starting lineup is completely out of sync.


----------



## JNice

I don't know why people assume Vince is a better play than Hedo right now. I don't think it is true at all. Vince was a better scorer but even that is questionable now. Hedo is a better basketball player. For superior decision maker. Not even close.


----------



## Blue

Vince isn't who he use to be. He doesn't move very well, so in that sense I think he's been a dispointment. At this point, Vince needs to make shots to have an impact and so far his jumper has been off. The only difference between Hedo and Vince imo, is the fact that Hedo was making more of his shots. That's not to say that I would rather have Hedo right now though. I actually prefer Barnes(and his contract) to Hedo, but I think I'd take C.Lee over Vince right now if I had the choice. 

If Vince starts making shots maybe than it's another story... I think the issue with the Magic is we just need guys on the perimeter who can move well and who can knock down shots. Right now Vince is bringing neither, which makes you miss a guy like Lee. Vince can leave a mark on the team equal to or greater than Hedo imo if he can find away to contribute and make shots when it matters, but for right now his lack of mobility on both ends is something that has set us back, imo... You can tell that he cant move likes he wants to and it seems like he's playing not to hurt himself rather than playing to win... Not his fault that he's getting old, but it's definitely a factor imo.


----------



## John

JNice said:


> I don't know why people assume Vince is a better play than Hedo right now. I don't think it is true at all. Vince was a better scorer but even that is questionable now. Hedo is a better basketball player. For superior decision maker. Not even close.


Hi Jnice


----------



## Sliccat

SVG needs to grow some balls. Either move Lewis to SF, or even better, bring him off the bench and let him get more touches there. If him and Carter don't work together, change it. It's that simple.


----------



## JNice

Blue Magic said:


> Vince isn't who he use to be. He doesn't move very well, so in that sense I think he's been a dispointment. At this point, Vince needs to make shots to have an impact and so far his jumper has been off. The only difference between Hedo and Vince imo, is the fact that Hedo was making more of his shots. That's not to say that I would rather have Hedo right now though. I actually prefer Barnes(and his contract) to Hedo, but I think I'd take C.Lee over Vince right now if I had the choice.
> 
> If Vince starts making shots maybe than it's another story... I think the issue with the Magic is we just need guys on the perimeter who can move well and who can knock down shots. Right now Vince is bringing neither, which makes you miss a guy like Lee. Vince can leave a mark on the team equal to or greater than Hedo imo if he can find away to contribute and make shots when it matters, but for right now his lack of mobility on both ends is something that has set us back, imo... You can tell that he cant move likes he wants to and it seems like he's playing not to hurt himself rather than playing to win... Not his fault that he's getting old, but it's definitely a factor imo.


It's not about making shots. This team has more than enough offensive capability. We don't need Vince scoring 20-30 a night. What the team needs is better attitude, better defense, and better playmaking/passing. That is where Hedo excelled over Carter. 

People like to point to Howard's undeveloped post-game for his drop in PPG and touches... well his moves and free throw shooting are where they were before... what is missing is the guy who was the best on the team at getting him the ball - Hedo.

If Nelson can stay healthy and get into sync then it would lessen the impact but he's been pretty lackluster himself. But no question Vince has completely thrown the team out of sync.


----------



## HB

Interesting how the last two games VC seems to be adjusting to his role on the team. Taking fewer shots and deferred to his teammates instead of forcing the issue. You take a high usage player and put him on a team with so many offensive weapons, of course it will take time to adjust. Funny how VC and the team were doing just fine before Meer and Lewis got back, didn't see you showing up talking about how the team is out of sync? Oh wait, maybe thats because they were actually winning games.

Fact of the matter is, the starters have not even played 15 games together, they are just getting their chemistry. The signs are there showing that will soon be a non-issue. Just give the team time to gel. 

I have argued this Hedo case to death with Coatesvillain, its weird how somehow Hedo is the guy who got Dwight the ball, when I remember the issue last year with this same team was that Dwight wasn't getting enough touches. VC might not be the best fit for this team, but signing Hedo to a long term contract would be a terrible move. How's he doing on the Raptors? Oh and before someone mentions he was a better fit for Orlando, with the type of money they are paying him and with the type of offensive weapons that team has, why's he not doing any better?


----------



## John

I actually see Carter playing his best defense in his life since he joined the Magic. You can actually not worrying Carter getting blow by scrubs anymore espeically if he knows someone is trying to isolate him. teams thought they can get away by isolating Carter getting points here and there but not anymore.


----------



## HB

Funny thing is he's been playing much better in the last 3 games, if the guy's not banged up his percentages are going to go up quick. Too bad he'll miss AS game, but he needs the rest. Next week's games are going to be quite trying. 

Little piece I came across a few moments ago



> BQRMagic
> 
> Vince Carter: 14 points in 17 minutes, 6/11 FGs, 6/8 after an 0/3 start. Against the league's best defense. Encouraging.


----------



## John

HB, I know VC is saving something for the playoffs, I dont think he was trying his hardest out there interms of trying to get to the lane. That is very good. We dont need him to get 30 for us, we need him to step up in playoffs for us and that's it.


----------



## Blue

JNice said:


> It's not about making shots. This team has more than enough offensive capability. We don't need Vince scoring 20-30 a night. What the team needs is better attitude, better defense, and better playmaking/passing. That is where Hedo excelled over Carter.
> 
> People like to point to Howard's undeveloped post-game for his drop in PPG and touches... well his moves and free throw shooting are where they were before... what is missing is the guy who was the best on the team at getting him the ball - Hedo.
> 
> If Nelson can stay healthy and get into sync then it would lessen the impact but he's been pretty lackluster himself. But no question Vince has completely thrown the team out of sync.


I didn't say he needs to shoot more or be a volume shooter. I'm saying he needs to MAKE shots when he actually does shoot, though... imo, it is about making shots for him... 39% is not gonna cut it, i dont care if your name is Kobe Bryant. For Vince to contribute, I think making shots is more likely gonna be his lane than defense or anything else(and making shots is why we got him)... 

Creating and setting up others is something he could look to do more too instead of trying to shoot his way out of slumps(which i hope/think he is realizing). He has help now, and the more he meshes with his teammates the more he should learn to trust them... Only difference between Hedo and Vince imo tho is Hedo was hitting those spot up 3's that Vince has been missing. That, and Hedo was also more accustomed to making that extra pass, but hopefully Vince will learn to do it too. Imo it's all about developing that level of trust and it takes time.


----------



## Duck

Way too much panic for January.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Not saying your wrong Duck, it's only half way through the season. However, ignoring the fact that your number one offensive option is shooting 39% from the field is foolish. Especially if you have hopes of being a contender.


----------



## Babir

Sometimes I think we should have kept this team... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozFvio2L0c8


----------



## TheVincanity

Hell no dont blame on Stan the man or the GM or frankly anyone.
The reason the orlando magic are struggling is cause of the carter-dominoblock senario.

heres what happens. Vince shoots the ball horribly taking shots of howard and rashard, Howard shoots less than he used to giving him bad numbers( i mean its ridiculus that Howard s not 20-10. By Howard not shooting to much and ryan anderson getting lots of favour from stan. Bass and Gortat dont get the minutes they should get, and because of this the whole thing looks overcrowded and in the end the fact that both or PGs are over 30
takes away or dream season and replaces it with a mediocre season


----------



## Basel

His stats so far in the month of January...

9.2 ppg
2.7 rpg
2.3 apg
29.3 FG%
22.9 3PT%
27.6 mpg


----------



## TheVincanity

Basel said:


> His stats so far in the month of January...
> 
> 9.2 ppg
> 2.7 rpg
> 2.3 apg
> 29.3 FG%
> 22.9 3PT%
> 27.6 mpg





TRADE VINCE NOW BEFORE HE LOSES HIS VALUE.


----------



## Blue

^too late.


----------



## HB

I cant even defend him. Playing like a bum right now.

Found *this article* though



> If you missed that, it sounds like Vince Carter — a.k.a. “Vince Cancer” to some of his harshest critics — has become the positive veteran presence people thought he never could be. It sounds like he’s become a leader and a good locker-room guy, even when his game has been off. It sounds like he’s playing through injuries after all those years of being labeled soft. And I know it’s more than “sounds like,” because Vince was doing the same things in New Jersey, he just didn’t get any credit.
> 
> Will this end up being the biggest reward of the Carter trade for Orlando? So much was made about the explosive scoring potential and crunch-time credentials, we forgot Vince would join the Magic as one of its most experienced vets. Once upon a time he might have thrown a fit or two by now, and his sulking could threaten to envelop the entire team. (Seriously, he’s getting benched for J.J. Redick in the fourth quarter.) But Vince knows what’s at stake here: For the first time in his career he has a legit shot at a championship, and his years are running out.
> 
> Honestly, while they’re beating good teams now, I don’t think Orlando can get past the second round of the playoffs if Vince isn’t playing like at least a borderline All-Star in the postseason. And if you ask me, I think he’ll come out of this funk soon enough. But even if it never happens, at least you can’t blame Vince’s attitude for whatever goes wrong.


----------



## JNice

Basel said:


> His stats so far in the month of January...
> 
> 9.2 ppg
> 2.7 rpg
> 2.3 apg
> 29.3 FG%
> 22.9 3PT%
> 27.6 mpg


Ouch. I'm pretty sure Orlando could probably get more out of most of the starting SGs in the d-league.


----------



## BlakeJesus

At least Magic fans can take solace in the fact that Courtney Lee is playing some really bad basketball as well haha


----------



## Blue

^At least he play'd defense.


----------



## HB

I told Vince you guys were clowning on him


----------



## Blue

Hah, he's beastin tonight.


----------



## HB

Me thinks Larry Frank had something to do with it


----------



## Blue

Or maybe January's just not his month..


----------



## 77AJ

I heard during the broadcast tonight that Lawrence Frank was attending the Magic practices. I think that's a smart move on SVG's part and the Magic.


----------



## Sliccat

Basel said:


> His stats so far in the month of January...
> 
> 9.2 ppg
> 2.7 rpg
> 2.3 apg
> 29.3 FG%
> 22.9 3PT%
> 27.6 mpg


That's one of the worst stat lines I've ever seen.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Carter looks like he's really lacking any kind of explosiveness right now against the Celtics.


----------



## Blue

Nelson is ballin today, baby. Lookin like last season...


----------



## Basel

GregOden said:


> Carter looks like he's really lacking any kind of explosiveness right now against the Celtics.


Yup - a couple of years ago, some of those plays at the rim would've been dunks.


----------



## Blue

VC, Welcome Home.


----------



## Babir

I hope he stays healthy...


----------



## John

No post padding please!


----------



## Seanzie

What a performance. I've been waiting for that kind of game from VC to give me some hope that he could raise his game to those kinds of levels.

If he's healthy, we're going to be tough to beat. If not... well, we'll be very vulnerable.


----------



## 77AJ

Vince Carter was great in the 4th quarter. He had a momentum changing dunk over AV. Plus a bunch of nice plays ran off the two man game with Nelson. Great stuff all around. Hoping to see more of this Vince Carter as the season continues.


----------



## HB

Just for fun

http://www.nba.com/magic/video/2010/02/23/022310cartershotm4v-1238735/index.html


----------



## Sliccat

Anybody notice the Carter statline for March. Not to jump the gun, but Hedo what?


----------



## HB

I know a couple of posters on this board that he has silence *for now*


----------



## Idunkonyou

Carter has averaged 19/4/4/53% FG/49% 3P in the last 22 games. So much for being washed up.


----------



## Blue

But dont you wish Hedo was heree


----------



## HB

Haha thats all Jnice


----------



## John

Carter has found out how to play within the team concept by not getting his shpts at the expense of other players. I think he has became more willing to wait for a second defender to come and draw a double team that's why his fg% becomes a lot higher. I still dont like his in consistent leaping ability to the rim. Sometimes he went for a drunk in a traffic, sometimes he looks like 38 years old going for a unalthetic layup? Is it me or he cant jump while going full speed against defenders now? That's not good in the playoffs.


----------



## Idunkonyou

John said:


> Carter has found out how to play within the team concept by not getting his shpts at the expense of other players. I think he has became more willing to wait for a second defender to come and draw a double team that's why his fg% becomes a lot higher. I still dont like his in consistent leaping ability to the rim. Sometimes he went for a drunk in a traffic, sometimes he looks like 38 years old going for a unalthetic layup? Is it me or he cant jump while going full speed against defenders now? That's not good in the playoffs.


I believe you are thinking about this too much. Carter is explosive to the rim when he wants to be. He isn't going to go at the rim full blast everytime any more because he is in his 30s. Kind of like Kobe. Kobe picks and chooses his spots to attack the rim with full force.

I believe Carter shows in warm ups that he is still one of the best dunkers in the league.


----------



## HB

*Vince gets his first 50...*



> After almost 12 seasons in the league, after slam-dunk titles and scoring more than 19,000 points, Vince Carter finally achieved something he dearly wanted: To be part of a 50-win season.
> 
> “It’s a wonderful feeling, but I want to win it all,” Carter said.
> 
> The Magic improved to 50-21 after beating Philly on Wednesday night.
> 
> Carter was part of a 49-win team in New Jersey, but that’s the closest he’s ever come to the big 5-0.
> 
> Carter has been superb since a forgettable January, and looks ready to lead the Magic into the playoffs as the “hometown” hero.


----------



## Seanzie

He's been stepping up. I guess he's kind of found his niche on the team. VC doesn't have to drop 30 anymore, so he gets his points when the team needs him to.

I actually think this bodes very, very well for the playoffs. Cleveland and Los Angeles scare me, but that's really it.


----------



## John

Agreed with the guy said upstairs. VC can still suprised someone for a series if SVG was to use VC the way Lawerence Frank did.


----------



## HB

*SI article*



> Vince Carter scooped up the ball at half-court, 47 unobstructed feet in front of him, a blank canvas awaiting his impression. He took a dribble, considered all available forms of aerial gymnastics, then decided to do the prudent thing. He would simply lay the ball in, run back downcourt with his head bowed and assume his defensive stance. He would act his age (33) and his position (veteran presence on a championship contender). He would be, for perhaps the first time in his high-flying life, pedestrian.
> 
> Then he took another dribble and heard the siren song that still accompanies every one of his breakaways, the expectant gasp formed by thousands sucking in their breath at once. He thought about the Easter Sunday crowd at Orlando's Amway Arena inching forward in their seats, folks at home creeping off their couches, his mother flashing him the sideways look from the fourth row that says, Come on, give me somethin'! He feared that if he went through with his all-business finger roll, even his mom might boo. "I still feel an obligation," Carter says, "to do what you've never seen before."
> 
> For 12 years he has filled airwaves with windmills and tomahawks, honey dips and reverse 360s—like the one he finally chose to punctuate his Easter breakaway with against the Grizzlies. He does not levitate the way he once did, but he complements his occasional jams with age-inappropriate half-court jumpers, kick-out fadeaways and lefthanded three-pointers he throws up after the whistle. More remarkable are the stunts he saves for scrimmages and layup lines, passed down like folklore. At 6'6" he has swiped change off the tops of backboards, hung from rims by his elbows and finished alley-oops that he threw to himself off gym walls. In practice he once dunked over nine players, including his four teammates. In a shootaround he walked into the stands and made 7 of 10 from the lower bowl. *"He does things with a ball," says former Nets coach Lawrence Frank, "that astronauts do in space."*
> 
> After one workout this season he plopped next to center Dwight Howard in the key and fired a fastball from a sitting position at the basket on the other side of the court, 86 feet away. Even that went down. Orlando general manager Otis Smith has tried to figure out Carter's fascination with trick shots and has come up with only one explanation. *"He's so talented, he gets bored," Smith says. "He tries to increase the degree of difficulty."* In that way his career has been an endless extension of the 2000 slam dunk contest, for which he spent weeks choreographing an intricate routine, scrapped it at the last moment, improvised every move and still put on the most mind-bending display in the history of the event.


----------



## 77AJ

That was a great article. Thank you for posting it. Love the Lawrence Frank quote.


----------

