# How well would AJ coexist with Nash?



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Given their contrasting styles, do you think they could've coexisted and been nearly as successful as we are to this point? If they clashed, what side would management take? Would you have supported AJ being moved for Nash? Try to be as in the moment as possible with that last one, I know it's hard though.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I think it would have been possible if both made some adjustments in the way they see or play the game. Both have egos, but they are under control. I'm sure that Nash would have accepted Avery as the main cog. But it's really tough to judge because I think Dirk wouldn't be the player he is today, neither would be Nash.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

I've thought about it quite a bit during the Nash debates; Nash would've driven him crazy imo - in which (educated) fans would side with Avery...

...at the point Nash left, it was clear that Nellie ball wasn't going to get this team a title, and a change of focus was in order. So correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be clear that Nash's style was inconsistant with the philosophy?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

xray said:


> I've thought about it quite a bit during the Nash debates; Nash would've driven him crazy imo - in which (educated) fans would side with Avery...
> 
> ...at the point Nash left, it was clear that Nellie ball wasn't going to get this team a title, and a change of focus was in order. So correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be clear that Nash's style was inconsistant with the philosophy?


I'm just raising the question for discussion. I agree with you though.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> I'm just raising the question for discussion. I agree with you though.


I know - I was just trying to keep it going...:biggrin:


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

see this is the one thing we cant really tell about Avery yet. How well does he develop young players and how good is he at getting veterans to adjust thier style. I know yall are saying Drag, look at how he has these guys playing. To which I respond true, but this team was already elite when he was handed the keys. Its not hard to get guys to adjust when youre a no doubt title contender. The same guys maybe dont adjust so well if the team is 30-30. Im stsrting to lean the the beleif that Avery might be a Larry Brown type coach. Hes great with vets but will struggle to develop young talent. Look at how long its taking Harris to develop. Luckily we have Donnie Nelson and the Mavs have no problem getting the guys that Avery wants. Avery might not flourish under a miserly management team. Maybe given time to grow and learn Avery will become better. Sometimes I worry that all his negativity is gonna shut down this team. Not this season maybe not next, but eventually when this team has slipped his coaching style is gonna shut players down and they wont listen to him.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> see this is the one thing we cant really tell about Avery yet. How well does he develop young players and how good is he at getting veterans to adjust thier style. I know yall are saying Drag, look at how he has these guys playing. To which I respond true, but this team was already elite when he was handed the keys. Its not hard to get guys to adjust when youre a no doubt title contender. The same guys maybe dont adjust so well if the team is 30-30. Im stsrting to lean the the beleif that Avery might be a Larry Brown type coach. Hes great with vets but will struggle to develop young talent. Look at how long its taking Harris to develop. Luckily we have Donnie Nelson and the Mavs have no problem getting the guys that Avery wants. Avery might not flourish under a miserly management team. Maybe given time to grow and learn Avery will become better. Sometimes I worry that all his negativity is gonna shut down this team. Not this season maybe not next, but eventually when this team has slipped his coaching style is gonna shut players down and they wont listen to him.


Do you really think we were elite when he took over ? Honestly I don't. We were a 50+ winning team, but we have never managed to make it to the Finals or even the WCF besides one time. He turned the franchise around by establishing more of a defensive style. It was him who turned Dirk into the player he is today. I also think he developed Josh quite well, he found a role for Diop and Devin is no scrub either.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> but this team was already elite when he was handed the keys. Its not hard to get guys to adjust when youre a no doubt title contender.


This is my mindset: that we weren’t an elite team because we couldn’t mentally break through – enter Avery. Development may not be his strong suit in the conventional sense, but the competitive focus he’s brought allows the young guys to grow into the system while winning: success helps them see the light.

But what if they are 30-30? Would Avery change his coaching method? I don’t believe so, because he’s still looking for corrections in every facet of the game, and I sincerely believe they would improve from that place. The question remains would Nash buy into what Avery would be selling at that point. He would want to win, but would he be capable of giving Avery the intensity on defense? 

Give Cube’s the credit for giving a fiery young coach a nice roster to work with. Certainly it’s making his job easier.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> see this is the one thing we cant really tell about Avery yet. How well does he develop young players and how good is he at getting veterans to adjust thier style. I know yall are saying Drag, look at how he has these guys playing. To which I respond true, but this team was already elite when he was handed the keys. Its not hard to get guys to adjust when youre a no doubt title contender. The same guys maybe dont adjust so well if the team is 30-30. Im stsrting to lean the the beleif that Avery might be a Larry Brown type coach. Hes great with vets but will struggle to develop young talent. Look at how long its taking Harris to develop. Luckily we have Donnie Nelson and the Mavs have no problem getting the guys that Avery wants. Avery might not flourish under a miserly management team. Maybe given time to grow and learn Avery will become better. Sometimes I worry that all his negativity is gonna shut down this team. Not this season maybe not next, but eventually when this team has slipped his coaching style is gonna shut players down and they wont listen to him.


Great points!

In Harris' defense, hasn't he developed into one of the BEST defensive guards in the league? Also, he worked on his jumpers over last summer, and that's also evident in his game. My biggest beef with the guy is consistency..... An inconsistent player can't ask for more PT on a stacked team, and without PT a player can't truly develop. It's one of those negative cycles.



Just a hypothetical scenario:

If T-Wolves hired Avery Johnson after letting Casey go, where would the T-wolves be right now?


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> Just a hypothetical scenario:
> 
> If T-Wolves hired Avery Johnson after letting Casey go, where would the T-wolves be right now?


Shape up or ship out.

I thing KG would be there first of all, and he would appreciate the hardcore work ethic that Avery would bring; the supporting cast would be more than they are now, if only because they would maximize their efforts.

imo


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> Shape up or ship out.
> 
> I thing KG would be there first of all, and he would appreciate the hardcore work ethic that Avery would bring; the supporting cast would be more than they are now, if only because they would maximize their efforts.
> 
> imo


So.... Mike James would be shopped before trading deadline?

How about records-wise? Casey gave them .500 play, and it's well below that under the new coach. I know team morale has a lot to do with it, but would AJ do better than .500 ball?

If so, what would you expect with their roster:
Kevin Garnett
Ricky Davis
Mark Blount
Mike James
Randy Foye
Trenton Hassell
Craig Smith
Troy Hudson
Marko Jaric
Rashad McCants
Bracey Wright
Justin Reed
Eddie Griffin
Mark Madsen


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> would AJ do better than .500 ball?


Hate to say regardless of roster, but I do think he would maximize their potential - maybe not overnight - but look at the mindset of the Mavs, that's what I think he could do.

But don't tell Avery. He may get the idea he's a hot coaching commodity, or something... :biggrin:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> But don't tell Avery. He may get the idea he's a hot coaching commodity, or something... :biggrin:


You mean.... a Nellie in the making? LOL...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> see this is the one thing we cant really tell about Avery yet. How well does he develop young players and how good is he at getting veterans to adjust thier style. I know yall are saying Drag, look at how he has these guys playing. To which I respond true, but this team was already elite when he was handed the keys. Its not hard to get guys to adjust when youre a no doubt title contender. The same guys maybe dont adjust so well if the team is 30-30. Im stsrting to lean the the beleif that


I disagree wholeheartedly. It's a lot harder to adjust a title contender, that's already been to the WCFs, and knows a lot (but not all) of what it takes to get there, then it is a 30-30 team _looking for a change._ In Pro sports particularly, players are stubborn, and if they're winning, and some new guy tries to come in and switch stuff up, they generally don't recieve it well, unless the coach is proven. The fact that AJ could come in and whip us into shape speaks to how professional our operation is run, contrary to popular belief, and how good AJ is of a coach.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> Great points!
> 
> In Harris' defense, hasn't he developed into one of the BEST defensive guards in the league? Also, he worked on his jumpers over last summer, and that's also evident in his game. My biggest beef with the guy is consistency..... An inconsistent player can't ask for more PT on a stacked team, and without PT a player can't truly develop. It's one of those negative cycles.
> 
> ...


They'd be one of those fiesty yet mediocre units, no doubt better than they are right now. They'd probably be good for about an 8th seed at best, because that roster just isn't good, and it's hard to come in and do anything midseason. Also I'd feel a lot more comfortable about Foye's development than I do now that I know once KG's gone, he can turn into Francis under whatever coach they have now. 

Two more interesting scenarios, which conceviably could've happened:

How would he do with New York and Detroit? Is Detroit the same championship Detroit with Avery? How would Marbury take to AJ?


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

NICE!




the crowd awaits a _Dre_ vs. Drag debate


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> NICE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's with all my crowds?


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> Is Detroit the same championship Detroit with Avery? How would Marbury take to AJ?



Detroit: AJ would fit right in considering their defensive strategy; however, Flip has a VERY different coaching style than that of AJ. I can't tell you if AJ's style would fit with DET. DET played well under Larry Brown and excelled under Flip primarily because Flip simply "let the players play." Going back to a control freak like AJ might not bode well, but they'll still be a contender.

NYK: LOL... Great scenario, but horrible horrible fit. AJ hasn't shown that he can handle players with big ego, and Starbury definitely has a HUGE one. I don't see the two getting along well. It'll be similar to the discussion before on "AI to Dallas."


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> What's with all my crowds?


LOL...

Since the team has so few issues for "discussion," we might as well stir something up between the posters here. We need the FUEL!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> LOL...
> 
> Since the team has so few issues for "discussion," we might as well stir something up between the posters here. We need the FUEL!
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


I hate Dirk's (lack of) hair!! :azdaja:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> I hate Dirk's (lack of) hair!! :azdaja:


So you like the way Dirk brushes his long wavy hair off his cheeks before he takes a FT?

LOL... that's.... ummm.... interesting....


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

I think they could co-exist, Steve would have to have changed his game soooo much but I think it could have worked..


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Saint Baller said:


> I think they could co-exist, Steve would have to have changed his game soooo much but I think it could have worked..


But changing his game from what it is now would take away his assets...:no:


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