# 2003 NBA Mock Draft (updated 22 May)



## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

First of all, no, the Cavs will not trade down, Lebron is a Cav, period. Second of all, Carmelo Anthony will NOT get drafted with the #2 pick, Darko Milicic is the #2 pick, period. Maybe the Pistons trade down to #3, maybe they don’t, but regardless, Milicic is FOR SURE the #2 pick. If you are looking at a mock draft, and you see these three guys go in any order besides 1 Lebron, 2 Milicic, 3 Carmelo, you may as well quit reading, because that’s a worthless mock draft.

Also, we should see quite a few foreigners who are drafted in the first round stashed overseas for at least a year by teams that are desperately trying to stay under the luxury tax threshold. Since none of these dudes are ready for the NBA ANYWAY, this is a pretty easy sell to the fans and media. Smart basketballboards.net users will know the REAL reason these guys are staying overseas, though.

Teams that are right around that threshold that will be particularly interested in drafting foreign dudes: Toronto, Milwaukee, and Seattle. It also wouldn’t surprise me to see a team such as Atlanta—a team that I expect to get blown up, a team that should be in the process of dumping payroll—draft foreign dudes and stash them overseas, too. Getting below the luxury tax threshold is a lost cause, but the Hawks could still save themselves quite a bit of money here, and again, we’re talking about players that are VERY RAW, they are NOT even CLOSE to contributing in this league as rookies, so leaving them overseas for a year makes sense in more ways than one, since they will certainly play more over there than they will over here. PLUS, there is the whole contract buyout clause issue. If the Varejaos and the Delfinos are left overseas for a year or two, these players do not have to worry about buying out their own contracts, it works out well for everybody involved, believe it or not.

For what it’s worth, I have nine of the 29 first round picks getting stashed overseas for at least a year before coming over.

Top 45 picks (i.e., the entire first round plus the first sixteen picks of the second round)

1 Cavs—Lebron James (Hello, Jeff Van Gundy; Goodbye, Ricky Davis)
2 Pistons—Darko Milicic (NO they are NOT going to draft Carmelo)
3 Nuggets—Carmelo Anthony (Kiki will try to move up to #2)
4 Raptors—Maciej Lampe (should get stashed overseas for a year)
5 Heat—Chris Bosh (this guy isn’t ready, Heat suck a LOT again)
6 Clippers—T.J. Ford (Jaric vs. Ford = Crawford vs. Williams = Distraction!)
7 Bulls—Dwayne Wade (Rookie of the Year; Jalen Rose = trade bait)
8 Bucks (from Atlanta)—Sofoklis Schortsianitis (stashed overseas for a year)
9 Hawks*—Pavel Podkolzin (stashed overseas for a year)
10 Wizards—Chris Kaman (Wizards’ young nucleus is better than people think)
11 Warriors—Kirk Hinrich (replaces Gilbert Arenas, who’s definitely gone)
12 Sonics—Leandro Barbosa (stashed overseas for a year, too)
13 Lakers**—Travis Outlaw (Lakers roll the dice at #13 on a HS kid--AGAIN)
14 Sonics (from Milwaukee)—Anderson Varejao (ALSO stashed overseas!)
15 Magic—Luke Ridnour (can he start and play well as a rookie?)
16 Celtics—Mike Sweetney (could actually play a key role as a rookie)
17 Suns—Kendrick Perkins (they may as well gamble on a HS kid again)
18 Hornets—Nick Collison (can’t replace P.J. Brown, but he’ll be asked to)
19 Jazz—Mickael Pietrus (hard to imagine this dude contributing as a rookie)
20 Celtics (from Philly)—Jarvis Hayes (not a need, but can’t slip forever)
21 Hawks (from Indiana)—Boris Diaw (also stashed overseas for a year)
22 Nets—Zarko Cabarkapa (stashed overseas; Nets might trade this pick)
23 Trailblazers—Josh Powell (can’t pass on this dude’s size and athleticism)
24 Lakers—James Lang (size like this does not grow on trees)
25 Kings (from Detroit)—Zaur Pachulia (will lose Keon Clark sooner or later)
26 Timberwolves—Aleksander Pavlovic (replaces Kendall Gill in the rotation?)
27 Lakers**—Ndubi Ebi (Lake Show continues to stock up on HS projects)
28 Spurs—Carlos Delfino (Spurs-Argentina connection continues)
29 Mavs—Victor Khryapa (definitely worth a pick this late; stashed overseas)
30 Cavs—Reece Gaines (major slippage; the starting PG job is his if he wants it)
31 Knicks (from Denver)—Jerome Beasley (might sneak into the first round)
32 Lakers (from Toronto)—Mo Williams (Lakers finally draft a non-HS kid!)
33 Heat—Marcus Banks (starting PG job his if he wants it, Miami really sucks)
34 Clippers—Rick Rickert (worst case scenario for this guy)
35 Bucks (from Memphis)—David West (will get a chance to play right away)
36 Bulls—Brian Cook (not much of a prospect)
37 Hawks—Marquis Estill (if Hawks are blown up, this guy might actually play)
38 Wizards—Mario Austin (not much of a prospect)
39 Knicks—Charlie Villanueva (why not?)
40 Warriors—Tommy Smith (a Darvin Ham type, Musselman likes guys like that)
41 Sonics—Chris Thomas (insurance PG in case Kevin Ollie isn't re-signed)
42 Hawks (from Grizzlies)—Marcus Moore (may actually make the 12-man roster)
43 Bucks—Jameer Nelson (should make the 12-man roster)
44 Rockets—Kyle Korver (Rockets need to surround Yao with shooters)
45 Bulls—Malick Badiane (stashed overseas; okay, I’ll stop now)

*Atlanta gets New York’s first round pick in a blockbuster deal involving Shareef Abdur-Rahim somehow.
**L.A. gets both Memphis picks in a Shaq trade—Shaq and filler (Stanislav Medvedenko) for Pau Gasol, Stromile Swift, both picks (plus maybe another future pick or two), expiring contracts (Wesley Person, Brevin Knight), and either Lorenzen Wright or Michael Dickerson.


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## AndOneZ17 (Apr 13, 2003)

There is no way in hell Shaq will get traded


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## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

There is no way that the Grizz will trade Gasol,Swift and the number 13 pick and 27th pick for Shaq no way..Shaq is way to old and the Grizz are tryin to build young so i dont no how u come up with these trades..And Chris Kaman wont slip down to number 10 he will most likely go to the Clippers at number 6 because what do they have after Kandi leave? Not a dam thing and that where Kaman comes in to play and they all ready got a PG in Jaric why draft another one when they need a C..And why would the Cavs get rid of Ricky Davis? He is there Franchise player(intill they get lebron) and if they move Davis to SF and have Davis play SG and Wagner play PG there team will be awesome in a couple years..So i have no idea why they would get rid of Ricky Davis..


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## Wink (May 30, 2002)

robyg I usually agree with what you say but I really don't understand your thinking on this mock. I seriously doubt you see Shaq traded to Memphis. And I also believe that Detroit picks Carmelo, whether they trade down to get him is one thing, but if they can't work out something with Denver(I'm guessing it would be picks and cash much like the Vince and Jamison situation) then I do believe that 'melo fits nicer with the Pistons team and is better polished for a contending team then Darko.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Cavs get Lebron and Gaines, I really like your mock but like the others I don't see the Cavs trading Davis.


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## D-Wade (Feb 20, 2003)

Wow.. Heat suck that bad? Ever heard of FA? 

That Shaq trade just makes me want to roll on the floor and laugh. I wonna link all my friends to this so they can get a good laugh..


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

You are putting us on, of course, but it's entertaining. 

I agree that alot of guys will get stashed overseas, not only European first rounders to defer the 3-year payout, but U.S. and foreign second rounders as well. This is a weak draft on the eve of the luxury tax. We may even see some teams renounce late first round picks.

Also because of the tax many free agents will get less money than they thought, and quite a few guys will be available for the veterans' minimum. Will this mean less roster space for first year players?

Just a few comments: 

1. no way that Gaines and Hayes will slip that far IMHO because some GMs will be thinking CYA and they are safe picks.

2. Even if Shaq rides the riverboat to Memphis, the Hawks would draft someone like Ridnour at #9, or take Barbosa and stash him. If Terry leaves, who is going to play the point for them? Drafting Podkolzin is just silly. Even if he had any skills, the guy has a 10-year buyout.

3. What's wrong with Marcus Moore and Mario Austin?


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Four_Season_Hustler</b>!
> There is no way that the Grizz will trade Gasol,Swift and the number 13 pick and 27th pick for Shaq no way..Shaq is way to old and the Grizz are tryin to build young so i dont no how u come up with these trades..


It's always pretty hilarious to see fans of terrible sub-30 win teams get mad when you actually propose a trade that gives them a top five player. Memphis wins around 50 ballgames with Shaq, instant credibility for that terrible franchise. Jerry West didn't take that job so he could sit around and win 30-35 ballgames every single year, he WILL FOR SURE make a major MAJOR move this summer, something HUGE, something GUTSY. I've explained the whole Shaq-to-Memphis thing a million times around here, I won't bore you guys with the details anymore!


> And Chris Kaman wont slip down to number 10 he will most likely go to the Clippers at number 6 because what do they have after Kandi leave? Not a dam thing and that where Kaman comes in to play and they all ready got a PG in Jaric why draft another one when they need a C..


Kaman, I think that dude's stock will slip once we start seeing individual workouts. Marco Jaric is hardly the answer at PG. The Clips can play Brand at C if they have to, they also have Melvin Ely and Chris Wilcox, they are pretty set up front. What they need is a PG. Andre Miller didn't exactly pan out for them this year.  They won't let Ford fall past them at #6.


> And why would the Cavs get rid of Ricky Davis? He is there Franchise player(intill they get lebron) and if they move Davis to SF and have Davis play SG and Wagner play PG there team will be awesome in a couple years..So i have no idea why they would get rid of Ricky Davis..


If you have no idea why a team wants to dump Ricky Davis, I don't know what to tell you, dude. Davis is a L-O-S-E-R. He cannot co-exist with Lebron and Dajuan. Nice backcourt, incidentally. Dajuan, like Iverson (although HE IS NO ALLEN IVERSON), is a tiny SG, he needs to be paired with a huge PG in order to be successful. Lebron is huge. Davis is a GONER. I also gotta think that Jeff Van Gundy takes that job in no time, that's an awesome job all of a sudden. Van Gundy isn't interested in dealing with the likes of Ricky Davis.


> Originally posted by <b></b>!
> robyg I usually agree with what you say but I really don't understand your thinking on this mock. I seriously doubt you see Shaq traded to Memphis. And I also believe that Detroit picks Carmelo, whether they trade down to get him is one thing, but if they can't work out something with Denver(I'm guessing it would be picks and cash much like the Vince and Jamison situation) then I do believe that 'melo fits nicer with the Pistons team and is better polished for a contending team then Darko.


I'm telling you guys, Carmelo WILL NOT go #2, he WILL go #3, Donnie Darko WILL NOT go #3, he WILL go #2. I know that we all think Carmelo would look great in a Pistons uniform, but the only way it happens is if they trade down. And Donnie Darko is worth A LOT more than Carmelo. If Kiki wants to get his hands on Donnie Darko, he will have to cough up WAY MORE than $2-$3 mil in cash. He's going to have to cough up Tskitishvili and a future first round pick. And Detroit STILL might turn Kiki down. Donnie Darko is A BIGTIME PROSPECT, fellas, a much bigger prospect than Carmelo!


> Originally posted by <b>CB4</b>!
> Wow.. Heat suck that bad? Ever heard of FA?
> 
> That Shaq trade just makes me want to roll on the floor and laugh. I wonna link all my friends to this so they can get a good laugh..


Ever heard of an incompetent GM? Ever heard of not a lot of cap room to work with? Who in the world do you think the Heat can get this summer besides Michael Olowokandi? All they can get besides that guy (who will cost them all of their available cap room) are minimum salary dudes. Bosh isn't ready to contribute at the NBA level, so you're looking at another 25 win season in Miami. Butler and Bosh, not a bad forward combo longterm but probably nothing special, maybe Olowokandi works out but I doubt it (he's a real bum), EJ and Grant have terrible contracts... not looking good in Miami, you guys better hope you win the lottery next year (and you just might)!

Here is Miami's starting lineup next season:

PG Veteran minimum salary guy (Kenny Anderson?)
SG Eddie Jones
SF Caron Butler
PF Grant
C Olowokandi

Man, that team sucks!


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 1. no way that Gaines and Hayes will slip that far IMHO because some GMs will be thinking CYA and they are safe picks.


Am I the only person who has no idea what "CYA" means"? Anyway, I do believe these guys will really slip, SGs like Hayes always slip (e.g., Kareem Rush last season), and Gaines is a combo guard, he's not even a true PG, I have no clue why this guy keeps popping up in top 15s or even top 10s!


> 2. Even if Shaq rides the riverboat to Memphis, the Hawks would draft someone like Ridnour at #9, or take Barbosa and stash him. If Terry leaves, who is going to play the point for them?


Barbosa would be really interesting at #9, actually, good idea. I think they'll re-sign Terry, he's a RFA, he will get a BARGAIN contract (just over the MLE) in this tight free agent market, so they won't need to draft a PG.


> Drafting Podkolzin is just silly. Even if he had any skills, the guy has a 10-year buyout.


He has a ten year contract, but his buyout probably isn't for as much as you think it is. Fellas, the dude is 7'4". 7'4"! And he supposedly is not a total stiff, either! 7'4" dudes with ANY athletic ability AT ALL do not last long EVER! Somebody is going to freak out and draft this guy in the lottery! He may be a bust, I don't know, but he's 7'4", I know that!


> 3. What's wrong with Marcus Moore and Mario Austin?


Austin is flat out neither big enough nor quick enough to make an impact in the NBA, he'll never crack any team's rotation, I doubt he'll still be in the league in 2-3 years. Moore, good god, who is this guy, and why do people think he's first round material? Marcus Moore? Just because the guy is tall and athletic doesn't mean he's much of a basketball player!


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## carayip (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Four_Season_Hustler</b>!
> There is no way that the Grizz will trade Gasol,Swift and the number 13 pick and 27th pick for Shaq no way..Shaq is way to old and the Grizz are tryin to build young so i dont no how u come up with these trades.


If Jason Kidd was traded, no reason to believe that Shaq won't. Shaq can have the effect on Grizzlies as Kidd on Nets. Can't imagine any true Grizzlies fans would turn that down.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

1. No way the Clippers select TJ ford and yes Jaric is the answer. You obviously dont watch Clipper game so leave it to people who watch them to comment on the franchise.

2. Would you give up the Shaq to Memphis trade up already. It's not going to happen and no one cares. Besides why would you trade all of you depth, your budding franchise player in Gasol for a lazy center who will bolt when he gets the first chance in a few years. Who cares if the win 50 games as you put it. Why trade away your future for a slightly above average team(yes with Shaq).

3. No saying they wont but if the Bucks take Sofoklis they'll be making a mistake.

4. James Lang is not a great prospect he is slow footed,seems un-motivated, cant keep his body in shape,etc. and if I were the Lakers I would be looking for a long term investment in Powell(no way he goes to the Blazers)

5. Now way Gaines slips to the second round. He's just what the Hawks ordered and look for them to snatch him up at 21

6. I doubt as many players get stashed overseas as you say the will. Barbosa being one of them

that shaq trade really messes up you whole draft


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> 
> Am I the only person who has no idea what "CYA" means"?...
> 
> ...


1. CYA means cover your arse.
2. Yes, and the dude has bad ankles on top of the fact that he cant play. The Knicks might be stupid enough to take him though-after all, they took Frederick Weiss.
3. Austin had a bad senior year. Yes the jury is out, but he has an NBA body.
4. Three years ago Marcus Moore was arguably the best HS player in California. He led his team (from the LA area) to the state championship and won the Wooden award. He is a pure pg at 6-6 and he can defend. At the time of his injury (bone chips in his ankle), he was second leading scorer in the PAC-10 (19.3 ppg), third in steals (1.80 per game), third in assists (4.47 pg) and 13th in rebounding (5.9 per game). He was all-conference as a freshman and sophomore too. He can play.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

> Ever heard of an incompetent GM? Ever heard of not a lot of cap room to work with? Who in the world do you think the Heat can get this summer besides Michael Olowokandi? All they can get besides that guy (who will cost them all of their available cap room) are minimum salary dudes. Bosh isn't ready to contribute at the NBA level, so you're looking at another 25 win season in Miami. Butler and Bosh, not a bad forward combo longterm but probably nothing special, maybe Olowokandi works out but I doubt it (he's a real bum), EJ and Grant have terrible contracts... not looking good in Miami, you guys better hope you win the lottery next year (and you just might)!


i love robyg...he seems to know everything like he's nastradamus. In July, you will be shut up about the Heat finally, I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you again so you can give me a 1000 word post about how you know what you're talking about. Miami will be better next year and depending on free agency, we could be a 8th seed or close. But believe what you want my friend


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## RoseCity (Sep 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Im The One</b>!
> 
> 3. No saying they wont but if the Bucks take Sofoklis they'll be making a mistake.


Why? Give some real reasoning here. I don't understand people passing judgment on this and other forigners when they havent seen them play.

Your opinon is as good as mine on this guy. I am sure you haven;t seen anymore of him than I. 

Personally, I think he would be a good fit there and he should be a beast. A more physchial Eddy Curry.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RoseCity</b>!
> 
> 
> Why? Give some real reasoning here. I don't understand people passing judgment on this and other forigners when they havent seen them play.
> ...


Calm down guy, I never said he was a bad player he just doesnt seem like the right fit for them. Their a up and down team and they would benefit from a clean up guy like Sweetney. I never heard anything about him being like Curry.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>carayip</b>!
> 
> 
> If Jason Kidd was traded, no reason to believe that Shaq won't. Shaq can have the effect on Grizzlies as Kidd on Nets. Can't imagine any true Grizzlies fans would turn that down.


The reason why you don't make this trade is Shaq is injury prone, has a poor work ethic, and is showing that he might be putting it in cruise control. No way you mortgage your future on a guy who has a history of missing lots of games. You think the Lakers were bad w/o Shaq, the Grizz would not win a game. Now I could see the Grizzlies offering that package for KG but not Shaq.

Also, look for Memphis to take a long look at Marcus Moore at #13.


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## carayip (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> The reason why you don't make this trade is Shaq is injury prone, has a poor work ethic, and is showing that he might be putting it in cruise control. No way you mortgage your future on a guy who has a history of missing lots of games. You think the Lakers were bad w/o Shaq, the Grizz would not win a game. Now I could see the Grizzlies offering that package for KG but not Shaq.


Shaq will be pissed after getting traded. Please look at games when Shaq's pissed, it's ALL OVER for everybody.

I link this Shaq trade proposal to the Kidd for Marbury trade. Did New Jersey Nets regret trading a young All-Star for an aging guy with a history of beating wife and whose contract is expiring? Did Nets regret trading the so called "future" for a "has-been"? HELL NO. Kidd got them 2 Finals appearance, gained creditability to a perennial losing franchise, drew fans to the stadium AND helped develop young players like Martin and Jefferson. How could you not be satisfied if Shaq has a similar effect on Memphis (which Shaq DEFINITELY is capable of)?

Not saying that Roby's Shaq to Memphis trade will definitely happen. But I can't understand how Memphis fans would be opposed against that. Jerry West needs a lot of work to convince Lakers to trade Shaq. And he's a genius if he can pull this off.


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## Mile High Maniac (Jun 15, 2002)

Forget about the possibility of the Nuggets trading up to #2 to get Darko, it isn't going to happen because Kiki has no need to do so. It'd be a gift to have Carmelo Anthony fall to #3 and end up here in Denver.

The Nuggets drafted two foreign projects last year, they need some name recognition to get the fans excited about the team again. Since they can't get Lebron, Carmelo is the next best thing. 

Trust me, no one in Denver will be disappointed about having to settle for Carmelo Anthony.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Im The One</b>!
> 1. No way the Clippers select TJ ford and yes Jaric is the answer. You obviously dont watch Clipper game so leave it to people who watch them to comment on the franchise.


Jaric = not the answer, please, fellas.


> 2. Would you give up the Shaq to Memphis trade up already. It's not going to happen and no one cares. Besides why would you trade all of you depth, your budding franchise player in Gasol for a lazy center who will bolt when he gets the first chance in a few years. Who cares if the win 50 games as you put it. Why trade away your future for a slightly above average team(yes with Shaq).


Blahblahblah, we've talked this Shaq-to-Memphis thing to death, I think it happens, most of you think it doesn't happen, we'll see what happens soon enough.


> 3. No saying they wont but if the Bucks take Sofoklis they'll be making a mistake.


You're probably right. If the Bucks can make a shrewd deal that gets them about $3-$4 mil under the luxury tax threshold--Toni Kukoc (expiring contract) straight up for Marcus Camby (contract expires in two years, makes $3 mil less than Kukoc next season) makes PERFECT SENSE for BOTH TEAMS--then I think they'll draft Kaman here.


> 4. James Lang is not a great prospect he is slow footed,seems un-motivated, cant keep his body in shape,etc. and if I were the Lakers I would be looking for a long term investment in Powell(no way he goes to the Blazers)


So no way Powell goes to Portland at #23, but you think L.A. should take him at #24? Makes no sense. As for Lang, he's a hoss, somebody will take a chance on this guy, and as for him seeming "un-motivated," well, my guess is that you know as much about this guy as I do (i.e., very VERY little). I know he's a hoss, I know he's a teenager, I know guys like that don't grow on trees, somebody will take a chance on this guy in the first round.


> 5. Now way Gaines slips to the second round. He's just what the Hawks ordered and look for them to snatch him up at 21


I've been predicting Hayes and Gaines to slip for months. Looks like it is already happening. Gaines is a combo guard, he's not a true point.


> 6. I doubt as many players get stashed overseas as you say the will. Barbosa being one of them


You could be right.


> that shaq trade really messes up you whole draft


It only impacts three picks, actually.


> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> i love robyg...he seems to know everything like he's nastradamus.


How clever! How original!


> In July, you will be shut up about the Heat finally, I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you again so you can give me a 1000 word post about how you know what you're talking about. Miami will be better next year and depending on free agency, we could be a 8th seed or close. But believe what you want my friend


PG Kenny Anderson
SG Eddie Jones
SF Caron Butler
PF Brian Grant
C Michael Olowokandi

25-win team, bottom five in the league for the second year (or is it the third year?) in a row. C.B., whenever you are capable of explaining to me or anybody else how the Heat can put a better starting five on the floor than that, feel free to let us know. All of your messages are about 2-3 sentences long TOPS, it's going to take more than that to convince me or anybody else that Miami is going to be good next year.


> Originally posted by <b>carayip</b>!
> Not saying that Roby's Shaq to Memphis trade will definitely happen. But I can't understand how Memphis fans would be opposed against that. Jerry West needs a lot of work to convince Lakers to trade Shaq. And he's a genius if he can pull this off.


Dude, neither can I, NEITHER CAN I. Take a look at this potential lineup:

PG Jason Williams
SG Shane Battier
SF Mike Miller
PF Juwan Howard (MLE)
C Shaq

Clearly, that team wins 50ish ballgames and is a SHOO-IN for the most improved team in the league next season.


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## jsm27 (Jan 9, 2003)

My turn to chime in on the Shaq to Memphis talk.

The Lakers will not trade Shaq. You just cannot trade the most dominate player in the league. There is not enough talent they could receive to make the deal worth it. With Shaq, the Lakers are title contenders, as Memphis would become. Without Shaq, they are barely a low seed in the West. And besides, if Shaq were traded, the Lakers would need a new coach, as Phil Jackson would leave.

Another reason this trade will not happen. With all the Jerry West wants Kobe rumors (his clearing cap space for Kobe's walk year), do you think he would really trade for Shaq when that would essentially clinch Kobe never wearing a Grizzlies uniform (because of egos and cap issues)? Based on what is known about West's plan, it would be hard to assume he will acquire Shaq.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jsm27</b>!
> My turn to chime in on the Shaq to Memphis talk.
> 
> The Lakers will not trade Shaq. You just cannot trade the most dominate player in the league. There is not enough talent they could receive to make the deal worth it. With Shaq, the Lakers are title contenders, as Memphis would become. Without Shaq, they are barely a low seed in the West. And besides, if Shaq were traded, the Lakers would need a new coach, as Phil Jackson would leave.
> ...


Your argument is pretty familiar, jsm27. I've presented a counterargument to your argument on any number of occasions. I'm trying to avoid reruns. Shaq's contract is ridiculous. There will be a power struggle in L.A. this summer, and Kobe will win. Kobe will never wear a Grizzlies uniform. That Kobe-to-Memphis rumor was probably put out there by Kobe's agent. Why? So he could put the fear of god into Lakers management this summer when he and his agent start making demands. Not only CAN I make this Shaq-to-Memphis argument until I am blue in the face, I HAVE made this argument until I was blue in the face on any number of occasions, so I'll shut up now!

Back to talking about the draft!


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

First off, lets get it straight how David Aldride is correct on this one. Detroit will take Milicic with the number 2 pick. Anthony may help to fill seats better for a struggling organization, but that is a problem Detroit does not have, they are near top in attendance.

Secondly, let me stress how important it is too have a dominant big man in the East, especially next to Ben Wallace. When the next great big man is Big Z and he is probably on his way to the Westerm conference, you can understand how important it is to have a presence offensively. 

Third, Tayshaun Prince, I dont really like him, but I know the Pistons management does. He and Rip will play the 2 and 3, not sure how they will manage that though.

My friend in Cleveland has told me rumors about this trade:

Big Z, Jumaine Jones

for

Bobby jackson, Hedo Turkoglu

How Hedo, Miles, LBJ, Davis will co exist in the 2 3 spots is beyond my knowledge. But then again I assume that Cleveland is shopping Miles and Davis.
I can't see it happening, Bobby J is their man, especially with Bibby doing diddly squat. But Bibby has the big contract, so it is likely Jackson could go. RobyG, I personally do not like this trade but he is confident it's gonna happen. Your view?


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## Vince Carter (Jan 9, 2003)

There's no way that if the Pistons dont trade there pick that there gonna pick Milicic, if the Pistons don't trade there pick then there going to select Anthony and that's the truth.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> 
> Your argument is pretty familiar, jsm27. I've presented a counterargument to your argument on any number of occasions. I'm trying to avoid reruns. Shaq's contract is ridiculous. There will be a power struggle in L.A. this summer, and Kobe will win. Kobe will never wear a Grizzlies uniform. That Kobe-to-Memphis rumor was probably put out there by Kobe's agent. Why? So he could put the fear of god into Lakers management this summer when he and his agent start making demands. Not only CAN I make this Shaq-to-Memphis argument until I am blue in the face, I HAVE made this argument until I was blue in the face on any number of occasions, so I'll shut up now!
> 
> Back to talking about the draft!


All I will say is this: The Kobe to Memphis talk is not just talk. It did not just start with Kobe saying he would opt out. I know the Shaq to memphis thing is never going to happen because Shaq is on his last contract. *Good GMs do not give up the franchise to overpay a 31 year old 7 footer with a terrible injury history.* As much as you harp about teams not signing Zo this should be clear to you. The goal here in Memphis is to build a title contender. Shaq would not make us a title contender, so why mortgage the future on him?


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> 
> Jaric = not the answer, please, fellas.


How about you explain to us why Jaric is not the answer since you seem to know so much about him and the Clippers. If you cant I understand



> So no way Powell goes to Portland at #23, but you think L.A. should take him at #24? Makes no sense. As for Lang, he's a hoss, somebody will take a chance on this guy, and as for him seeming "un-motivated," well, my guess is that you know as much about this guy as I do (i.e., very VERY little). I know he's a hoss, I know he's a teenager, I know guys like that don't grow on trees, somebody will take a chance on this guy in the first round.


Your saying it makes sense for Portland to draft him just so he can play behind Wallace and Randolph(in other words not at all) but not for L.A who has a need for him. Yea that makes more sense. I dont even know why i'm talking about L.A taking him here they dont even have this pick, it's something you made up in a bad Shaq trade. Yea Lang is a hoss. He's a big body not very mobile,and has a weight problem. Your right some team will take a chance on him but that's their mistake. Just shows how desperate some teams have become.




> I've been predicting Hayes and Gaines to slip for months. Looks like it is already happening. Gaines is a combo guard, he's not a true point.


What do you mean it's already happening, these are just mock drafts there is no way to tell what's going to happen on draft day. I still say Gaines to the Hawks.


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

Toronto will Take bosh or trade down...no way they'll waste the 4th pick on Maciej Lampe when they could get him at 6,7,8th


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Toronto wont take Lampe


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## (-) 0 † § I-I () † (Jun 11, 2002)

I also see the Hawks taking Gaines if he slips to 21. Salmons stock rose when they saw the little he could do (and believe me he didn't pan out yet). So I could see the Hawks making a move on a player with much more talent then John. Jason Terry although stats wise looking like he had a good point guard season, is not the point guard. If they resign him to play shooting guard, then Gaines would be a nice pick. I doubt they take another point guard, after taking Dickau last year. Dan is someone who could be garbage, or eventually a poor mans Steve Nash. I understand your combo guard statement, that he really isnt a point player, but with Terry you dont need a point player, Jason will take the ball up at times, and at times Reece will, it doesn't have to be set in stone like the AI Snow relationship. 

The Shaq trade isnt that unrealistic. I feel its almost impossible to ever predict a top 5 player getting traded, especially with know public warning, but for all the reasons he has stated it does make sense. Shaq can make ANY team a title contender. The Grizzlies dont want to just wait for all their young prospects to blossom and bloom and waste time just like the Clippers did, now facing a Store Closing Clearance sale, where they will lose Kandi Man, Miller, Maggette, maybe even Brand or Odom. Regardless of foot injuries, he is 31, that gives him 4-5 good years. I know you think his big toe is that bad, but heck at 50% this guy is still a top 5 center. Unless he retires, Memphis will be a title contender each and every year.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> How about you explain to us why Jaric is not the answer since you seem to know so much about him and the Clippers. If you cant I understand.


 Yeah...Roby, for all your knowledge you don't really seem to know how good Jaric is. You're just writing him off. Have you actually seen him play, and paid close attention to him? He is a magnificent player! Watching him play, to me he was clearly one of the three best guards in the city of Los Angeles (Kobe, Jaric, other...). Jaric isn't just a better player than Ford, he is a better prospect, too. I really like the mock, though.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I like the Hawks trading their players, not future picks, to get into the top 10. Podkozlin looks like a bust to me, ankle problems and short legs don't fair well for a 7'4 freak. I would suggest someone better for us to draft instead of him, but everyone else sucks too much for a top 10 pick.

Some dudes for the later rounds I like are Ndudi Ebi (late round 1), Josh Powell (late round 1), Chris Thomas (early round 2), Jarvis Hayes (teens), Carlos Delfino (20s), others.

PG Dan Dickau
SG Jarvis Hayes
SF Ndudi Ebi
PF Josh Powell
C Nazr Mohammed

Hayes, Ebi, Powell are good pieces for the future. Dickau is there cause he is the only PG we have, and this team will suck so much we'll be able to draft Okafor/Splitter/Howard in 2004. It's all about building for the future baby, and time is on my side.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Marco Jaric and Maciej Lampe and more...*

THE FRANCHISE:

That Big Z-to-Sacramento trade you are proposing, I don't see how it's going to work. Z makes the max. Bobby Jackson and Hidayet Turkoglu combined are quite a ways away from the max. Besides, Big Z is worth WAY more than Turkoglu and Jackson, I think they can get a Raef LaFrentz for this guy somehow this summer (we'll see). I think Sacramento will let Keon Clark opt out of his deal this summer, bring back Jimmy Jackson, and try to figure out what they need to do with Turkey Glue. I'm sure they'd love to move him for a longterm replacement for Divac, but we're talking about a LONGterm replacement here, somebody who won't step in and replace Divac for another 2-3 years. Turkey Glue to New Jersey for the rights to Nenad Kristic, something like that. Otherwise, I think Sacramento is pretty happy with its nucleus, the key for them is to have Webber healthy for the playoffs next season.

MARCO JARIC.

I actually kind of like Jaric, he's really active, really versatile, he's a lot of fun to watch, I totally agree. But I like him as a combo guard, the first backcourt dude off the bench, a guy who can spell either T.J. Ford or Quentin Richardson next season.

The Clips suck, fellas. They SUCK. Hard to imagine them getting better next season when Andre Miller, Michael Olowokandi, and Corey Maggette will all likely leave with no compensation (I do expect Elton Brand and Lamar Odom to be back, however). They SUCK. They need a leader, a winner. They need a bigtime PG. Like I said, I like Jaric, but is he ever going to be, say, one of the ten best PGs in the league? No way. Will Ford be a top ten PG? I am skeptical, but the scouts are REALLY HIGH on this guy, the scouts say YES, he CAN be a top ten PG in this league. I don't think anybody in his/her right mind really believes Marco Jaric will be a top ten PG. If you do, well, I don't know what to tell you.

Yes, I have seen Jaric play, I like him, but c'mon, guys, be realistic, he's not star material. Some people seem to think that half of all NBA players are stars. Stop overusing terms like "star" and "superstar" and "great"! Hyperbole = annoying!

Besides, the Clips are actually kind of loaded up front. Elton Brand, Chris Wilcox, Melvin Ely--those are three fairly recent lottery picks to take care of business at the 4 and 5 spots next season, any number of teams would gladly trade their frontcourt situations for the Clips' frontcourt situation. The Clips should also be able to get a pretty decent backup PF (David West? Brian Cook? Jerome Beasley? Mario Austin?) with their early second round pick. They appear set on the wings with Odom, Richardson, Jaric, and Dooling. What they need is a floor general, and not another old school type like Andre Miller, they need somebody who can blow by defenders, who can create havoc on both ends of the court, somebody who can rally the troops, some fresh blood. It's awfully hard for me to envision either Marco Jaric or Lamar Odom (as a point forward) LEADING this team ANYWHERE EVER besides the lottery, fellas. They are both nice or potentially nice (or potentially REALLY nice) complimentary players, though, especially if this team actually goes out and gets a good head coach (Paul Silas, COME ON DOWN!).

So the Clips taking T.J. Ford at #6 is NOT a dis on Jaric. He seems like a good pick for the Clips, and it seems like I read somewhere fairly recently that Elgin Baylor is pretty high on Ford.

AS FOR TORONTO AND MACIEJ LAMPE.

I plan on putting together a thread sometime this weekend explaining why I expect Toronto to take a foreign dude and stash him overseas for at least a year. It is, of course, related to the luxury tax.

If the Raptors think they can move some unwanted payroll and the #4 pick, move down to #6 or #7, and still get Lampe, sure, that could happen. If the Clips (#6) or Bulls (#7) fall in love with somebody who they do not think will be there if they stand pat, we could see this happen, sure. The #4 pick, Antonio Davis, and Eric Montross FOR the #7 pick, Jalen Rose (makes the same as Davis, contract lasts for one more year), and filler (say, Dalibor Bagaric, Roger Mason, and Lonny Baxter) would trim about $2-$3 mil off Toronto's 2003-04 payroll, which should probably be enough to stay below the luxury tax threshold, ESPECIALLY if they draft a Lampe and leave him overseas for a year (in which case his contract obviously will not count for cap/tax purposes because IT WILL NOT YET EXIST). If the Bulls drafted Bosh at #4 (why else would they want to move up?) and held onto Williams AND Crawford (and started BOTH of them), the Bulls would be LOADED up front: Curry, Chandler, Bosh, Marshall, Davis, Fizer. Hel-LO!

The Raptors MIGHT even be able to draft whoever they want at #7 and bring him over, they may be able to get far enough below the luxury tax threshold this summer, who knows, we'll see. If they can't get afford to sign their pick AND get under the threshold, though, yeah, I gotta think they'll draft a Maciej Lampe (or whoever) and stash him overseas for a year. It's not like Lampe is ready to contribute at the NBA level, anyway, so no big loss.

In any event, it's worth pointing out that NONE OF US have any idea who the #4 pick in this draft is going to be right now. The top three picks are set in stone, and in that order (1 Lebron 2 Donnie Darko 3 Carmelo, FACT, not my "opinion," a FACT), but the #4 pick, who knows? We always see a lot of movement in the weeks before the draft, as teams bring in players for individual workouts. One team may fall in love with Lampe, another team may think he's nothing special. Amare Stoudemire, for example, apparently did not work out very well for the #2-#8 teams last season, and he apparently DID work out well for Phoenix. Nikoloz Tskitishvili was probably not a top ten pick in late April last season, but he ended up moving up to #5 overall. A lot of things will happen in between now and draft day.

One thing is for certain: in general, big guys go before little guys. A Maciej Lampe or a Chris Bosh, prospects like that do not grow on trees. Big guys move up, little guys slip. We often see lots of big guys drafted ahead of little guys who end up having MUCH better pro careers, happens pretty much every single year, but that does not stop teams from going big. And do not underestimate how obsessed NBA GMs are with finding "the next Kobe" (i.e., the next HS kid who turns out to be a superstar) or "the next Dirk" (i.e., the next foreign dude who turns out to be a superstar). Based on what I know about these players right now, I happen to think that Lampe is a pretty reasonable bet for #4 overall, ESPECIALLY when one takes into consideration Toronto's terrible luxury tax situation. I realize that he's in the mid- to late-lottery in most mocks, but I think we'll see that change over the next few weeks.

We will certainly be in for some surprises, that's for sure. Some names that we've been seeing in every single mock lottery will slip all the way to the end of the first round, if not out of the first round altogether, while some unknowns will come out of nowhere to sneak into the first round, perhaps even into the lottery. The draft is only, what, 5-6 weeks away? A lot and I mean a LOT will happen between now and then!


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

One thing you must remember: Euros look very good in individual workouts. They will start creeping up the draft as they workout. They will also be the ones trying to secure promises (Chad Ford says Aleksandar Pavlovic already has one between 14-19). I am not sure why people are so adamant that Bosh will go before Lampe. La,pe is bigger and plays SF, can shoot and dribble just as good. 

Roby is right, size creeps to the top unless some small has an awesome workout. I would be shocked if TJ Ford is considered top 5 after Chicago. I look for him to go late lottery. Don't be shocked if he isn't the first PG taken either. HSers will also move up. Some GMs will pass on a Collison to get the untapped potential of an Outlaw.


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## Sicky Dimpkins (May 28, 2002)

Your mock's consistently underrate Kaman and Gaines.


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