# UNC vs. Gonzaga



## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jimmy ***** last night brought up a great point the other night when he said that Gonzaga has just as much the talent that UNC does....So i decided to compare the two teams.....yeah, yeah homer this, homer that.....

PG; Felton vs. Raivio
Raivio:
ppg: 13.6
apg: 5.0
rpg: 2.9
Turnovers: 48
Stls: 38
3 pt% 48.7
FT% 90.1

Felton:
ppg: 11.4
apg: 7.0
rpg: 4.0
Turnovers: 84
Stls: 42
3 pt% 47.0
FT% 66.0

SG; McCants vs. Knight
Knight:
ppg: 6.4
apg: 1.2
rpg: 4.4
Turnovers: 29
stls: 11
3 pt% 27.8
FT% 63.4

McCants:
ppg: 15.9
apg: 2.8
rpg: 3.1
Turnovers: 44
stls: 36
3 pt% 40.5
FT% 73.6

SF; Morrison vs. Jackie Manuel
Morrison:
ppg: 18.1
apg: 2.7
rpg: 5.5
Turnovers: 35
stls: 13
3 pt% 32.5
FT% 80.4

Manuel: 
ppg: 5.9
apg: 1.7
rpg: 2.7
Turnovers: 23
stls: 30
3 pt% 33.3
FT% 58.8

PF; Batista vs. Jawad Williams
Batista:
ppg: 11.8
apg: 1.0
rpg: 6.1
Turnovers: 44
stl: 15
3pt% 50.0
FT% 73.0

Williams:
ppg: 14.6
apg: 1.6
rpg: 4.2
Turnovers: 34
stls: 18
3 pt% 41.2
FT% 82.1

C; Turiaf vs. May
Turiaf:
ppg: 16.5
apg: 1.6
rpg: 9.0
Turnovers: 50
blks: 36
FT% 70.7

May:
ppg: 15.6
apg: 1.9
rpg: 9.8
Turnovers: 51
blks: 24
FT% 75.5

-Raivio = Felton....The big key that i look at in the PG matchup is the turnovers, Raivio has 38, while Felton has a whopping 84....

-McCants > Knight....McCants definitely has the edge on this one offensively, but Knight is a great role player who can bring energy and athleticism to the game every night.....

-Morrison > Manuel.....This one is a clear cut easy choice....Morrison is far and away the better player....as only a sophmore, there is no one in the nation who can defend him...He brings an intensity to the game that is unmatched....

-Batista = Williams......While Williams has a much more flashy, hip hop style of and is a great athletic player...Batista is calm and virtually unstoppable on the low block....JP surprises me with his outside shooting as well

Turiaf > May
Turiaf is an elite big man....His numbers are down from last year due to a sprained ankle thats been hampering him but he is still a huge asset down low and lone senior that sees playing time....May is a great player but needs to work on his all around game, however the future is bright for May....

Coaches
Williams > Few
Williams and Few are the only 2 coaches in the nation that have a winning% of .800 over the last 5 years and both are up top college coaches....Few will soon be a legend, however Roy Williams already is a legend with great NCAA tourney experience.....

Bench
UNC > Gonzaga
UNC has a very deep bench with Marvin, Noel and Scott and that makes them tough come tourney time....Gonzaga has a very young and inexperienced bench that in a couple years could be force Pendergraft, Mallon and Cespedes are not to be overlooked they will mature in the next couple years....RedShirt freshman Heytvelt was a McDonalds all american and has been compared to KG, watch out for him next year as Turiaf moves on to the NBA......

All in all i think these teams are very comparable....It amazing what Few has done at Gonzaga....If your a high school kid where would you rather play? At Chapel Hill for Roy Williams or in Spokane, Washington for Mark Few...Few is a genious

I'm waiting for all you haters.....


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

In all honesty, I'm more of a Gonzaga fan than I am a UNC, but this is kind of a silly comparison. Gonzaga has played (and in some cases won) some tough games - Okla St., Wash, Mizzou, Illinois, but overall, I'd have to say UNC's schedule has been a littler harder. The numbers may be similar, but sometimes numbers lie - when you compare who the teams have been playing against. UNC 19-3, Gonzaga 18-4. If what you're saying is true, woudn't these teams be a little closer in the rankings?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Gonzaga doesn't play in the ACC. WCC is competitive this year, but it still isn't the ACC.

I don't know if that makes me a hater though. Gonzaga isn't as good as Carolina is and I doubt you'll prove it to anyone otherwise.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

As I stated in a different post, Jimmy ***** is a blowhard.

I despise UNC, but I couldn't disagree with Zagsfan more.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Syracuse vs UNC

Edelin = Felton (look at the # of To's)
GMac > Mccants (Clutch)
Pace > Manuel
Warrick > Williams
Forth = May (Forth is a better passer)

Wow this is easy.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

This is insane. Gonzaga is a good team, maybe even a great team, but better than UNC is just laughable. Felton, despite the turnovers, is better than any point guard not named Chris Paul or Deron Williams. McCants is better than Morrison, and Manuel is one of the best defenders in the nation. A May, Williams, Williams, and Noel rotation at post speaks for itself. There really is no comparison, IMO. UNC plays better defense, and is possibly the best offensive team in the nation.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> RedShirt freshman Heytvelt was a McDonalds all american and has been compared to KG, watch out for him next year as Turiaf moves on to the NBA......


He absolutely was not.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: UNC vs. Gonzaga*



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> He absolutely was not.


Since when does the Next KG get redshirted right? :laugh: :laugh:


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Wow......I have seen some homers on this site.....you now challenge B34C as the biggest homer on the site.....congratulations


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Zagsfans incoherent ramblings should be taken with a grain of salt, but I actually think people aren't giving the Zags enough credit. Remember, this team has wins over four NCAA tournament teams in Washington, Oklahoma State, Georgia Tech, and St Mary's. It is these games that I base my analysis on. I posted this in a similar thread over on the ACC board: 



> It's closer than you think.
> 
> Felton>Ravio - By a steady margin, but Ravio is very good. He reminds me of Steve Blake running a team, with the shooting ability of Travis Diener. Quite a bit smaller than both players, however.
> 
> ...


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Illinois State v. UNC

Vince Greene=Raymond Felton
Felton may average more points and assists per game and shoot for better percentages from the field and 3 point range, but Greene is one of the best free throw shooters in the nation and provides underappreciated senior leadership.

Trey Guidry < Rashad McCants
This is closer than you may think. McCants shoots better from the floor and long range, but Guidry is a better free throw shooter and pulls down .1 rebound per game more than McCants. Slight edge to McCants

Gregg Alexander=Jackie Manuel
Alexander averages 7 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists and Manuel averages 6 points, 3 rebounds, and 2 assists. Alexander shoots better percentages, but Manuel is a better defender

Lorenzo Gordon > Jawad Williams
Gordon averages 17.3 points and 6.4 rebounds per game compared to 14.6 and 4.2 for Williams. Gordon is one of the stars of the MVAC!

Greg Dilligard=Sean May
Now May averages 9 points per game more than Dilligard and 4.4 rebounds per game more than Dilligard, but Dilligard shoots 58% from the floor compared to a measly 55% for May. That means that if Dilligard took as many shots as May, he would clearly average more points. But the biggest equalizer here is that Dilligard IS JUST A SOPHOMORE!


Now I'm going to give a slight edge to UNC due to them having a better bench and more size, but its a lot closer than you might think! And it would be even closer if Najeeb Echols hadn't left ISU to pursue a pro career in Europe and if ISU's best player and post presence Marcus Arnold did not transfer to Illinois.


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## Stevie B (May 15, 2003)

LOL, I thought this would be a topic knocking one of the most ridiculous comparisions I've ever heard/seen on TV. Instead its praising him.

Batista = May :uhoh:


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Junior,

Do you have any stats to back up those comparisons?....like i did....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

You guys can make all the excuses you want, but the funny thing is, the only game North Carolina played this year against a WCC school was against Santa Clara in which beat steadily by 11 points....Is the WCC really that bad of a conference??? Ask teams like North Carolina, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, Washington, Oklahoma State and Stanford who all have been beaten by these lowly WCC schools.....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> You guys can make all the excuses you want, but the funny thing is, the only game North Carolina played this year against a WCC school was against Santa Clara in which beat steadily by 11 points....Is the WCC really that bad of a conference??? Ask teams like North Carolina, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, Washington, Oklahoma State and Stanford who all have been beaten by these lowly WCC schools.....


I think we can all agree that the team that lost to Santa Clara is not the same team now.

Should I list the schools that have lost to ACC teams? Do you really want me to? Ask the Big 10.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> I think we can all agree that the team that lost to Santa Clara is not the same team now.


Why? Felton was injured but he doesnt make that much of a difference.....

Well since Gonzaga didnt have Errol Knight, we wernt the same team then.....



> Should I list the schools that have lost to ACC teams? Do you really want me to? Ask the Big 10.


The ACC is a power conference....I would expect that out of them...

Bottomline:
Santa Clara 77, North Carolina 66


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> The ACC is a power conference



That's exactly my point.

Bottom Line: 

UNC: 19-3 and in by far the best conference in the country
Gonzaga: 18-4 and in the WCC


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Why? Felton was injured but he doesnt make that much of a difference.....


You must really be kidding? UNC doesn't have a PG other than Felton. He would have made all the difference in that game. Quentin Thomas could some day be a good player, but he sucks as of right now, and will never be the PG Felton is. Felton is the heart and soul of the UNC team and with him they would have killed Santa Clara.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> UNC: 19-3 and in by far the best conference in the country





> Gonzaga: 18-4 and in the WCC


This just doesnt make sense to me though......Of Gonzaga's 4 losses, one was to Illinois (Big Ten) which, is undefeated an #1 in the nation....The Missouri (Big 12) game could have gone either way...And Gonzaga was tired after having just beat Oklahoma State two days before in Oklahoma City....St. Mary's is a good team that beat us a fair and square and San Francisco squeeked one by us that could have gone either way.....

Yea we are 18-4, but two of our losses have come against teams in "power conference"

North Carolina vs. WCC, 0-1
Gonzaga vs. ACC, 1-0

you do the math


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> North Carolina vs. WCC, 0-1
> Gonzaga vs. ACC, 1-0



This is horribly oversimplified. Unbelievable. I won't bother to respond to any more of your posts.

So you truly believe Gonzaga is as good as UNC?

:banghead: = talking to Zagsfan


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

If Gonzaga can beat Oklahoma St., Washington and Georgia Tech they could just as easily beat UNC.....

UNC is going to lose tomorrow to UCONN.....


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, and two of UNC's 3 losses came against Duke and Wake Forest, top 5 teams. The other was against Santa Clara, one of the top teams in a conference that you claim is very, very tough. As for your little "Felton doesn't matter" comment - take that garbage somewhere else. It's bad enough that you get your facts confused every other post, but if you are going to be that closed minded, you ought to head over to the ESPN boards where nonsensical drivel is the norm. We have to hear about how Gonzaga was "tired" against Missouri so that loss is acceptable, but UNC losing their floor general and best player doesn't matter. If Ravio missed a game, those east coast haters could probably hear you crying from the other side of the rockies.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

"Homerism is a helluva drug."


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, and two of UNC's 3 losses came against Duke and Wake Forest, top 5 teams. The other was against Santa Clara, one of the top teams in a conference that you claim is very, very tough. As for your little "Felton doesn't matter" comment - take that garbage somewhere else. It's bad enough that you get your facts confused every other post, but if you are going to be that closed minded, you ought to head over to the ESPN boards where nonsensical drivel is the norm. We have to hear about how Gonzaga was "tired" against Missouri so that loss is acceptable, but UNC losing their floor general and best player doesn't matter. If Ravio missed a game, those east coast haters could probably hear you crying from the other side of the rockies.


Nice post...I just don't have the energy for it anymore.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> UNC is going to lose tomorrow to UCONN.....


You want to bet?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> We have to hear about how Gonzaga was "tired" against Missouri so that loss is acceptable, but UNC losing their floor general and best player doesn't matter. If Ravio missed a game, those east coast haters could probably hear you crying from the other side of the rockies.


Yea, it is acceptable to say that we were tired why not....It is physically and emotionally draining for a team to beat two (at the time ranked #3 teams) on the road in a two week span and then face a pretty good Missouri team on the road two days later....However, you guys losing Felton is your excuse for losing to a "lowly" WCC team....If Raivio was injured when we played our games against Santa Clara, I'm confident that Cespedes would step up and do the job.....

If North Carolina has 5 first rounders dont you think they could of taken care of a much weaker UNC team.....

Were getting off subject though, fact is Felton isnt marginally better then Raivio.....In fact as a sophmore Raivio is just as good as Felton....Outside of the WCC Raivio is still a relative unknown...

Against Washington, Georgia Tech and Illinois.....Raivio put up 21, 21 and 11 respectively on 16-25 shooting...against Nate Robinson, Jarret Jack and Dee Brown some of the best point guards in the nation....You cant say it is the competition....Not to mention exploding for 32 points on 8-11 shooting at Santa Clara......


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> You want to bet?


Sure...What do you want to put on it....?


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Yea, it is acceptable to say that we were tired why not....It is physically and emotionally draining for a team to beat two (at the time ranked #3 teams) on the road in a two week span and then face a pretty good Missouri team on the road two days later....However, you guys losing Felton is your excuse for losing to a "lowly" WCC team....If Raivio was injured when we played our games against Santa Clara, I'm confident that Cespedes would step up and do the job.....
> ...



:mrt: 

Homer


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> It is physically and emotionally draining for a team to beat two (at the time ranked #3 teams) on the road in a two week span and then face a pretty good Missouri team on the road two days later...


The words good, Missouri, and team should never be used in the same sentence. That right there just lost you all credibility on these boards.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i'll match anyone's homerism as far as gonzaga goes but i also think unc is the better team. i think where the zags beat the heavyweights is when they can come in as the underdog. i think carolina proved against duke they can be beaten by a good,not great team. collectively carolina is right up their near the top but if you look at them individually they are more vulnerable than one would think. marvin williams is a talented kid who is a top draft pick candidate but he is a freshman and too often it shows. guys like mccants and may are good college players that would be more than matched by guys like turiaf and morrison. guys like batista and knight could be big factors in any head to head matchups between the two. bottom line unc is better but the zags would not surprise anyone(especially me) if they were to knock them off somewhere down the road.


p.s. josh heytvelt was a borderline top 50 player who is redshirting, he was actively pursued by kansas,arizona and the u.w. ,any comparison to nba types is too premature, any comparison to k.g. is pure fantasy.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> 
> 
> The words good, Missouri, and team should never be used in the same sentence. That right there just lost you all credibility on these boards.


I went to Mizzou, and I completely agree with you.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I said a "pretty" good Missouri team.....I didnt say good.....Heck they beat Oklahoma the other night, played Illinois closer than anyone else has and upset an excellent team in Gonzaga.....I'd say there "pretty" good......


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> I said a "pretty" good Missouri team.....I didnt say good.....Heck they beat Oklahoma the other night, played Illinois closer than anyone else has and upset an excellent team in Gonzaga.....I'd say there "pretty" good......


They are 11-13 overall and 3-7 in the Big 12.

Until beating Oklahoma, they had a 5 game losing streak.

This is exactly what you do all the time, you provide half-truths that support your argument.

However, they are probably better than the Loyola Marymount team Gonzaga barely beat last night.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Yea it goes to show that when Raivio and Batista both have their worst games of the season.....and Loyola Marymount plays the game of their lives to try and beat Gonzaga, just like every other WCC team does and we still beat them shows that we are a damn good team.....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Yea it goes to show that when Raivio and Batista both have their worst games of the season.....and Loyola Marymount plays the game of their lives to try and beat Gonzaga, just like every other WCC team does and we still beat them shows that we are a damn good team.....


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

You never cease to amaze me.


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

> I said a "pretty" good Missouri team.....I didnt say good.....Heck they beat Oklahoma the other night, played Illinois closer than anyone else has and upset an excellent team in Gonzaga.....I'd say there "pretty" good.....


They lost at home to Davidson. DAVIDSON!

Oh, and they lost at home to Creighton. And on the road to Houston. 

Missouri, quite simply, is a horrible basketball team. They managed to catch Gonzaga at a bad time, similar to UNC vs. Santa Clara.

That being said, you are way overating a few Gonzaga players (and I'm a GT fan who's team played both this year). Raivio is a nice player, but he's not Felton, and Turiaf in no way is Sean May's equal. It's not even close. Sean May is an absolute load this year. I'd even go so far as to say that's a big UNC advantage. And that's not even touching bench depth. Marvin Williams is better than any Gonzaga player other than maybe Morrison, and he's riding the pine in Chapel Hill.

Come on now, this thread is ridiculous. Play them in one game, and Gonzaga might win ... it's not like they aren't a good team. But if they played a 7 game series they'd be lucky to make it 4 games to 2.


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## danoz (Feb 14, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Yea it goes to show that when Raivio and Batista both have their worst games of the season.....and Loyola Marymount plays the game of their lives to try and beat Gonzaga, just like every other WCC team does and we still beat them shows that we are a damn good team.....


zagsfan, i respect the wcc as much as you but seriously the zags outrebounded lmu by about 20 and shot a much hire percentage, and still only squeaked in.Gonzaga is a good team but way to inconsistent to even think about matching it with UNC. I give them 3 wins in a 10 game series head to head with the tarheels. But, showing some wcc homerism, i would also give st marys, pepperdine and santa clara 2 wins in such a series


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>vadimivich</b>!
> 
> 
> They lost at home to Davidson. DAVIDSON!


Davidson's not that bad a team. They are actually a contender for an at-large if they screw up in there conferece tourney. They are likely a 13 seed right now. 

Now I'm sorry you made me post that, because it gives more ammunition for Zagsfan half-truths.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Gonzaga or Pacific???


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sboydell</b>!
> Gonzaga or Pacific???


I would take Gonzaga but with the Way Gonzaga played in the Last game it is clear that Pacific is able to beat the Zags. The Zags aren't playing like they were at the start of the season what they beat, Ok State or G-Tech. or even Washington. They are a young team and have a lot of areas to improve in before they can be a clear cut top 4 seed in the NCAA Tournment.


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