# Trades that actually better the team:



## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Here are a few trades which could greatly help the Clipps:

1. Andre Miller to Utah for their 2003 and 2005 1st picks. Oddly enough Utah would do this because they have cash off the books next year, and with Miller, AK47, and DeShawn Stevenson they'd have a solid core and the ability to get a middle-high FA. Dre is worthless to the Clipps at this point, but getting the 03 pick is crucial, because that pick would be conveyed to Denver to satisfy the Orlando trade; and the 05 pick is an added bonus, and could be a lotto pick (I would say should, but Utah always is there despite age, lack of talent or whatever). Note that Miller could accept a one year deal for the trade (not the qualifiying offer though) because Utah knows he'd resign after one year.

2. Melvin Ely to Milwaukee for their 2003 1st from Atlanta. Ely is the guy the Bucks really wanted last year and he's well worth the #9 pick this year (last years draft was superior excluding top 3 picks). The Clippers hardly need Ely when Wilcox actually has the more developed low-post game and with that 1st pick a guy like Boris Diaw Riffiod could be had; and he's the piece that could really help. He's a Point-F of sorts and is a shut-down defender and great athlete, possibly a Ron Artest caliber player...the best part is he shows no emotion so he can't get T'ed up.

3. Corey Maggette and Elton Brand to Denver for their 2003 1st top 1 protected, and a future 1st. Maggette hasn't pulled a Kandi yet (purchasing a house in his future team's city) but he's pretty much made up his mind. Elton also seems to be inclined to skip to Denver. So with Denver's huge cap space, this sign and trade is logical and do-able with the Clippers taking on zero contracts.

4. As for Kandi, a sign and trade to Miami for their 2003 1st and and a 3.7 mil contract (assuming Kandi's base salary is 8.5 mil) would work. Kandi would force this only because he stands to get more money from it (he'd only get a 7.4 base salary from Miami). 

And you may be asking yourself why would the Clippers what to stockpile picks in a seemingly weak draft. Well, it's not a weak draft it's a role player's draft. I meantion Diaw already, but with the other 3 1st picks, the Clippers could get Kirk Hinrich (becuase Jaric needs a better guy than Dooling to share PT with), and with the two higher picks I'm eying Darko Milicic and Kosta Perovic...That leaves one question, is Odom worth keeping around? I think a Jermaine O'Neal contract (4 years 32 mil intermediate contract) would be pretty logical, it leaves all options for all parties open and pay Lamar. I also think the Clippers should resign all of their FAs except Rooks, and sign Elden Campbell and Kenny Anderson to one or two year deals. 


Imagine this roster:
PG: Jaric, Hinrich, Anderson
SG: Diaw, Q, Pike, Dooling
SF: Odom, Fowlkes
PF: Milicic, Wilcox
C: Campbell, Perovic, Parks, Wang

and the 2nd round pick would be a Euro to keep stowed away for a while... Florent Pietrus is a thought.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

While some of those trades seem reasonable, Denver would not even consider that trade. Even if you took off the future first rounder.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

R-Star, think about it. Elton is the caliber of palyer that won't go to Denver through signing usually. I can guarantee you Jermaine O'Neal isn't signing in Denver. The future 1st is relatively useless, throw it out if you want. Elton and Maggette are the highest caliber players that Denver can get this off-season (excluding Lebron and Darko), I don't see why they wouldn't do it if they don't have the #1 pick. But Kiki's plan is his plan, and we'll see exactly what that is May 22 (lotto day; I think it's the 22).


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

Hey Goods:

I've been meaning to tell you --- Kandi is an unrestricted agent. He walks this summer; we have no claim on him. We do, I believe, have the option to offer him a contract. AND, if we do --- I'm gone.

So, unless you mean offer him the big contract (bigger than what we offered him --- was it 6.5/yr.) he wants and then trade him, I don't think we can do anything else. And, if we do that --- who in their right minds wants Kandi. There is no real reason for us to sign him at all.

Someone else will have to correct me --- I'm quoting what I've read here and other boards about him as an unrestricted agent.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

right but 8.5 mil is more than he can get if he just signs with the Heat.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*I had to watch the college championship ...*



> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> right but 8.5 mil is more than he can get if he just signs with the Heat.



But, I guess I don't understand what you're saying. We have no claim to him and we don't want him, so why would we offer him anything. Let him get whatever he can get without our help. He made his decision and we have made ours.

Are we even close to speaking the same languare? I don't usually discuss the rules and contracts and don't even know why I attempted to this time. OK, that's right --- it's about Kandi and I despise him.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

No offense, if they are in desire to trade Brand for a pick... why did they trade their pick for him before?

-Petey


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Brand was traded for because the Clippers did not anticipate that David Faulk (his agent) would be such a problem. There are very few GMs who think Brand is a even near max guy, but Faulk demands the max while Brnad was offer a 6 year 60 million dollar contract last year, which is more than reasonable for his value. 

Also about Kandi: He'll do whatever gets him the most money. At this point Denver appears to have shifted interest from him and that leaves San Antonio and Miami; each have about 7 mil in free cap. Kandi could sign a contract starting at 8.5 to 9 mil with the Clippers if he agrees to a sign and trade. So it's only logical that the money grubber does what's best for him and not what's best for his future team. San Antonio, who is the other main possibility, is more likely to persue Jermaine O'Neal. Kandi is almost 28 (unless he already turned 28), his stock is at it's all time high and he's going for The contract not just a contract.


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

Boris Diaw maybe a very athletic defender, but he is an awful shooter


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

um, they're WAY UNDER the MINIMUM with those trades. you cant just sign and trade hoping to work things out, you need salary back too. number one trade gets 10 mil MAX (prolly even less)


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Unbiased, now I know you're not Nugzfan using another handle, he can count:
Lamar Odom= 7.5 mil
Darko Milicic, Kosta Perovic, Boris Diaw, Jaric, Hinrich, Dooling,Wilcox = approx 12 mil
Campbell + Anderson = 13 mil (that's about the price they command)

add that up and it's 32.5 mil, which is over the threashold, and that doesn't include Fowlkes, Pike, Q and others. 

unbiased....leave....stop talking...you really should think in the future before you spew crap.


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

you must be on some sort of crack. who thinks that anderson and campbell would sign with the other la team? and for HOW MUCH?6.5 mil each? first off they wouldnt want to play for an overrated team. second they'd both be lucky to even think of getting the 4.5 mil exception. 

even though i cant count, i dont dream of making a team based on the owner being able to spend


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

You are truly unintelligent. Both Campbell and Anderson are currently signed to 9 mil a piece, what makes you think that they will take over a 50% pay cut? Also you even said it yourself the Clipps have to get over the threashold, so even cheap DTS would have to sign guys at that level...stop talking while you only this far behind...go back to the Nuggets Forum.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

you give up on ely already? he's going to be a good center in this league. in his rookie season he's shown flashes of why he was drafted, as has wilcox. this might not be curry and chandler but its close enough for my liking.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

I'm not giving up on him, but I think Darko is SUPERIOR, and Wilcox is potentially a better backup (not because of skill but Wilcox can get a crowd excited like DMiles could). Also Ely isn't really a center, and even so Perovic or Padkolzin are and will be superior players...but I could see reason in keeping Ely over Wilcox for his work ethic, etc. But excitement is a huge attendance factor.


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## mercury (Apr 9, 2003)

TheGoods, you seem like a fairly knowledgable poster...so I'll pose this question..Am I missing something here?...A draft choice has no $ trade value according to the CBA...and even if it did it would only be for the rookie contract value...also this sign and trade assumes that Denver would be Brands first and foremost choice to play (he holds the trump card)...granted there aren't many teams that can afford a max salary but any combo of players can be traded for 115% value in a forced sign and trade...don't take offense...like I said maybe I'm missing something here.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

If I understand your question, you're asking how can the trade with Denver meet the CBA. Denver is 21 million under the cap, and in this trade presupposes that Brand is signed in the 9 mil base range and Maggette in the 6 mil base range.

If you're talking about the Olowokandi trade, AC's contract is worth about 5 mil next year. So Kandi signed at 8.5 mil base - AC's 5 = 3.5 and the Heat have 7 mil in cap so it works as well.

In the Miller trade's case, Utah has 7+ mil in cap and so the Clipps would have to take on some low-level contract filler if Miller has to be signed to more than 7 mil.

Just let me know if I didn't quite understand what you were asking.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Goods, after a game last night why would you ever want Elton Brand to leave? 26 points 23 (12off) boards 5 assists 4 steals 2 blocks. I mean common, Andre Miller is the obvious problem... with Jaric and Dooling in the backcourt and Elton, Odom and Ely in the game the Clips were playing playoff calibur ball easily. Andre Miller has gotta go, he slows down the pace too much and is only an average finisher at best, has no range on his jumper, and commits way too many costly turnovers when the game is close.

Clippers have GOTTA resign Brand, and C-Maggs.....and then should resign Odom and Q. Keyon Dooling and Jaric will excel if givin a split of the minutes, both can also play SG.


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## mercury (Apr 9, 2003)

I'm simply saying the the players in return for Brand have to be within 115% of the salary that Brand is signed for...If we use 9mil, the draft choice has no value until after this player is signed...and this is only the first year rookie contract (around 3mil)...how does 9mil = a rookie contract?...Denver would have to add existing players to the trade for the $'s to match up.

Also Brand would have to accept the offer (assuming that Denver is his most desirable choice to play)...didn't his agent already say that Brand would sign the one year qualifying offer so that he would be an UFA in 2004?


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Yeah I know, I want Brand to stay...he even set a pick, his very first pick. Money is the issue with Brand 6 year 60 mil is the deal that will be on the table for him. I would prefer at this point that Brand, Odom, Jaric, Dooling, Q, Pike, Ely be the core. Wilcox is still young, but a question mark. Mags is a problem though. He may look for big money, if he'll take a 6 year 36 mil contract he stays but he may look for much more. Although if Dooling improves his D, he and Jaric might be my ideal backcourt now. They both work hard, run, and can shoot...The only question left is who to play center? Any misc guy who can grab 8 or 9 rebounds and block a shot or two works great IMO. Maybe the Clipps should make an offer to Jamal Magloire. Or they could trade Kandi to Miami for their 1st and AC's contract, and then trade the lower of the two 1st picks (Miami's and their own) to NO for Magloire, their 1st, and a future 1st (and then convey NO's 1st to Denver to satisfy the Orlando deal). Wow, that would be great.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Denver doesn't have to take on the 115% of the trade because they are under the cap, a are the Clippers so the CBA doesn't apply unless one team goes over the cap...and neither does.

As for Brand right now money talks...but we'll see.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> Yeah I know, I want Brand to stay...he even set a pick, his very first pick. Money is the issue with Brand 6 year 60 mil is the deal that will be on the table for him. I would prefer at this point that Brand, Odom, Jaric, Dooling, Q, Pike, Ely be the core. Wilcox is still young, but a question mark. Mags is a problem though. He may look for big money, if he'll take a 6 year 36 mil contract he stays but he may look for much more. Although if Dooling improves his D, he and Jaric might be my ideal backcourt now. They both work hard, run, and can shoot...The only question left is who to play center? Any misc guy who can grab 8 or 9 rebounds and block a shot or two works great IMO. Maybe the Clipps should make an offer to Jamal Magloire. Or they could trade Kandi to Miami for their 1st and AC's contract, and then trade the lower of the two 1st picks (Miami's and their own) to NO for Magloire, their 1st, and a future 1st (and then convey NO's 1st to Denver to satisfy the Orlando deal). Wow, that would be great.


Yeah that Dooling pik n roll was great. I would agree that Dooling and Jaric would be a great up tempo, shooting, defending backcourt. I also agree that any fundamentally sound center would do just fine, he shouldn't demand the ball or require many touches. I agree with your lineup except if push came to shove I would take Corey over Q. And I think if this team was locked in so to speak they would play great.....we dont even really need a draft pic or new players, except maybe a center, however I think Ely could do the job. I even think Wilcox could be experimented with, he is much more athletic and faster than any center, with some zone help he would most likely get by defending opposing centers... think about it he's gotta be as strong as Rooks and is definately a shot blocker, he just needs to get "smarter" on D. Also against bigger centers he could run them out of the game and force a smaller lineup. I like Wilcox, its kindof a stretch.. but last night the clippers played Awesome with a lineup of: Brand, Odom, Pike, Jaric and Dooling.... Odom was the biggest player on the court.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

I actually think Wilcox could work nicely, but not next year. I think if Wilcox becomes a better rebounder and bulks up, and picks up his D, he could be Ben Wallace-ish.


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## Dirtybirds81 (Sep 1, 2002)

Sprewell and the #8 pk for Miller(sign and trade) is out of the question?


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

Maybe something like NYK's pick and Charlie Ward (contract expires after 2003-2004 season) for Miller? Might need to add salary though.


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## BobbyDigital32 (Mar 16, 2003)

What the Clippers need to do is fire Elgin Baylor, and hire TheGoods as the General Manager. Then, this team could really go somewhere.


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## Joker (Aug 7, 2002)

how about miller for miami's 1st round pick top 3 protected and maybe if u want anthony carter?

if the CBA does not work for teams under the cap space,
then this should work out pretty well for both teams.

Miami is looking for a PG of the future, and sees it more in miller than in anyone else in the market or in the lottery, plus the game tempo is not as high in miami, which is a good thing too.

You are definately looking for 1st round picks to copmlement the players you already have and are not looking for any cap space. the AC salary is off the books in 2004-2005 i think, or we can never include him anyways.


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