# Rumours Heating Up



## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Well i guess it makes sense that after last nights game NY is apparently really interested in Marshall and Rose as well
offering K Thomas and Penny

Apparently talks are heating up

http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/38491.htm

while that trade is okay, there really isnt any youth movement in it, and after what Babs said yestarday i hope he doesnt make that move without a prospect or pick included, but still i cant see him taking on a long term contract with Thomas, so maybe there is a third team here

i think its a great time to sit back and let the offers start rolling in, there is a month to the deadline, Rose and Marshall are playing great, and teams will start getting more desperate especially with all the rumours

maybe Mia is starting to take a second look at a deal and rethinking about Wright
think of that one two punch
Wade Oneil and then Marshall Rose through the stretch and then in crunch time you have so many weapons
thats a champions ship team for sure


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

If Babcock is going to wait around for Miami to include Dorell in a deal, then he will lose Marshall at the end of the year for nothing, and the offers for Rose will only get worse.

They are playing well, but there aren't teams that are going to overpay for either, Marshall is a UFA at the end of the year, and Rose is well Rose.

So ya sure Babcock can sit and wait around, but IMO the more waiting that's done just increases the likelihood of a deal not being struck and him being left holding the bag, that would be excellent GM work.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> If Babcock is going to wait around for Miami to include Dorell in a deal, then he will lose Marshall at the end of the year for nothing, and the offers for Rose will only get worse.
> 
> They are playing well, but there aren't teams that are going to overpay for either, Marshall is a UFA at the end of the year, and Rose is well Rose.
> ...


but hey, we're winning now right? who cares. let's just keep both for the remainder of the season...

[/sarcasm]


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

The better the Raps play and the worse Minny and the Knicks and others play, means there is no pressure to deal and plenty of bidders.

The deal that goes down just might be the one we never heard. Just like NJ.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

only way i make this NY deal is if AW is included other wise we are getting a 32 year old guy with 4 years and a large contract back


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

NY is probably as good a trading partner as anyone

Isiah really has no choice but to keep adding players. If he changes his team-building strategy now, he'll look like an idiot. Can't see Isiah EVER admitting he screwed up. 

We could probably convince him to overpay for Rose or Marshall, by adding Alvin or Zo's salary to any trade talks.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ansoncarter</b>!
> NY is probably as good a trading partner as anyone
> 
> Isiah really has no choice but to keep adding players. If he changes his team-building strategy now, he'll look like an idiot. Can't see Isiah EVER admitting he screwed up.
> ...


*How about this?* 

Toronto trades: 
SG Jalen Rose 
SGAlvin Williams 
PF Donyell Marshall 

Toronto receives: 
SG Anfernee Hardaway 
SF Tim Thomas 
SF Trevor Ariza 

New York trades: 
SG Anfernee Hardaway 
SF Tim Thomas 
SF Trevor Ariza 

New York receives: 
SG Jalen Rose 
SGAlvin Williams 
PF Donyell Marshall 

TRADE ACCEPTED


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

I still think we should get more for Jalen and MNarshall... they can still play! You've seen it!

Penny sucks... and i don't think NY would let ariza go...


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

I dont know
I just dont see a trade with NY that works

for me what i think would be the best trade for Rose and Marshall either together or seperate would be to get back
a solid backup C, a guy who can play around 20mins
an expiring contract (ideally a pg)
and another pick

It looks like we will draft a 1 and a 3, so picking up one in a trade, is just creating a log jam, and the young players will struggle for playing time

when Marshall goes, there will be a gap at the 5 where Woods would now be our number 2 option, and i just dont know if that would work, maybe A Will will fill in that spot, thats why i think we need a back up C


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

To Toronto:

Penny Hardaway
Tim Thomas

To NY:

Jalen Rose
Donyell Marshall
Alvin Willaims
Alonzo Mourning


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

:laugh: okay i would do that maybe throw in Murray as well


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> 
> *How about this?*
> ...


Umm no...

Why do guys do this?

Give 1 logicial reason why he just throws in Trevor Ariza other than the reason that Toronto would just like to get a prospect out of the deal.

In this deal it doesn't make any sense at all.

Ariza will be in Toronto if the Knicks have an away game there.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> Ariza will be in Toronto if the Knicks have an away game there.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Umm no...
> ...


Its simple. If a deal goes down wuth NYK, we either get expiring contracts (they don't have any) or young talent. Or the deal doesn't happen. Its up to Isiah to decide how badly he wants Marshall.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I wouldn't expect an Ariza or a Sweetney to be coming our way.

Kurt Thomas' has a very big contract. I think he is a good player and he would be a great addition if we were trying to win now. Since we are focusing on tomorrow, though, I don't want his contract and age weighing us down.

If we could trade Jalen/Donyell/Alvin for Tim/Penny, though, I wouldn't hesitate. It's almost impossible to move Jalen's contract for something worthwhile, let alone move Alvin's, too.

If we made the above trade, our cap situation in Summer 2006 would be excellent. Assuming we buy-out Mourning at $3M a year against our cap, we would look like this:

$23M for existing contracts (Eric, Chris, Mo, Rafer, Zo, Hoffa).
$9M for four first-round picks, three second-round picks.
$3M for Bonner, whatever money for Pape.
~13 players total, roughly $10M in capspace.

Rafer/First
Mo/First/Second
First/Eric/Second
Chris/Matt
Hoffa/First/Pape

Overseas: 1 Second?

The year after Mo and Eric expire, so we could do what we want with those, or just allow them to expire and use the extra space to sign Bosh to a big one and still remain around the cap without being way over.


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## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

We are coming together as a team and are winning ball games, why do we need to make another HUGE move by sending Marshall n Rose somewhere? Instead why not do couple of small moves like trade, Aaraon Wiilams/Alvin Williams, Lamond Murray, Loren Woods, Milt Palacio etc..(i'm not saying move all of them, i'm just wrting some names that can be used instead of Marshall n Rose)...Yea so move those type of players to a rebuilding team or a bad team like the Hornets, Hawks, Worriers, maybe clippers, and get a decent backup PG or a good rebounder who can hustle in the paint and give us consistant rebounding along with Bosh that can compliment him at the C...Thats all we need seriously..


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> Instead why not do couple of small moves like trade, Aaraon Wiilams/Alvin Williams, Lamond Murray, Loren Woods, Milt Palacio etc..(i'm not saying move all of them, i'm just wrting some names that can be used instead of Marshall n Rose)...



Because no one wants any of those players., with the possible exception of Murray.

You honestly think we'll get anything worthwhile by dealing those players? Dream on.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> We are coming together as a team and are winning ball games, why do we need to make another HUGE move by sending Marshall n Rose somewhere? Instead why not do couple of small moves like trade, Aaraon Wiilams/Alvin Williams, Lamond Murray, Loren Woods, Milt Palacio etc..(i'm not saying move all of them, i'm just wrting some names that can be used instead of Marshall n Rose)...Yea so move those type of players to a rebuilding team or a bad team like the Hornets, Hawks, Worriers, maybe clippers, and get a decent backup PG or a good rebounder who can hustle in the paint and give us consistant rebounding along with Bosh that can compliment him at the C...Thats all we need seriously..


What would you rather have...

A team like we have now that is a mix of veterans and young players, with some big contracts and a couple of draft picks on the way...

Or a team based around our young players and draft picks, and some spending money to sign good young free agents to add to the team later?

Don't get me wrong, I love winning games, but one of those paths will lead to a championship contender and the other will lead to several seasons of .500 basketball and first- or second-round playoff exits.


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## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

Yea ok i understand all that but, if we get Penny n Kurt for Marshall n Rose we won't be winning much because we won't be left with any bench players. It will be really weak, and look at what rose n marshll have done for us in the past couple of games, they step up hugeeee...make us win games n keep us close..

i just quickly did this trade cheak, something like this i was talking about with those players...


Atlanta trades: C Kevin Willis	(3.1 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.0 minutes)
PG Tony Delk	(11.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 24.5 minutes)
Chris Crawford	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
Atlanta receives: C Loren Woods	(4.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.0 minutes)
PG Milt Palacio	(5.0 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 3.3 apg in 17.8 minutes)
PF Aaron Williams	(1.6 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 7.1 minutes)
SF Lamond Murray	(7.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 16.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.2 ppg, +6.4 rpg, and +3.2 apg.

Toronto trades: C Loren Woods	(4.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.0 minutes)
PG Milt Palacio	(5.0 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 3.3 apg in 17.8 minutes)
PF Aaron Williams	(1.6 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 7.1 minutes)
SF Lamond Murray	(7.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 16.9 minutes)
Toronto receives: C Kevin Willis	(3.1 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.0 minutes)
PG Tony Delk	(11.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 24.5 minutes)
Chris Crawford	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -4.2 ppg, -6.4 rpg, and -3.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

In this their are expiring contracts in Chris Crawford, n Kevin willis. Also we get rid of Lamond murrays n Aaron williams contract. We will have some money to sign a decent pack up C or what ever. And then accuiring Tony Delk would be a goood back up for rafer.


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

Why trade when we're on a streak..??


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## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

I said b4 i don't think Raptors should trade since we are winning ball games. BUT if a trade was to happen i would trade away contract like thiers or smalller player like i said b4, not Rose n Marshall


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

*Why do a big trade now?*

The reasons for trading Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall are concisely stated in this very thread. Please turn your attention to: Post #2 and Post #18.

However, I'll summarize in my own words.

Despite the fact that the casual fan will be surprised that we are trading away a couple of our stronger (STREAKING) players. In the long run, it will be a LOT better for our team. There is a 99% chance that Donyell Marshall walks outta Toronto if we don't trade him first. Rose, he's pretty good, but he's not even CLOSE to 14mil/yr good.

Next, to think about the projected line-ups of the future for the Raptors. Well, it almost makes me poop myself. LOL. Araujo, Bosh, Mo Pete, Alston, Bonner, plus 3 1st round picks currently. That is 8 fairly young main players on our team. Add one or two more picks or prospects to that mix. I mean, thats pretty much gauranteed contention a few years down the road. Bosh looks to be on the way to all-star - superstardom. Probably one of those first rounders could realistically turn into an all star. While players like Araujo, Bonner, Morris Peterson and Alston could be some of the best role players in the league in the next 7 years. Who knows. Of course some prospects always fall through the cracks somewhere. But that's why we would be so set with 9 or 10! At least half our bound to succeed.

I'd rather sit through one or two losing seasons and then CONTEND in a few years. Than, COMPETE every year for 6-8th spot in the East and then get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round, without any real chance for a ring.

Anyways. Thats mine, Arenas's and Speedy's take.

lata


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

You guys realize this is from a new york paper right? :uhoh: 


In other news espn insider and espn radio is reporting that a deal that may be close to completion is as follows

Here's the deal as it stands now: 

Knicks Get 

Jalen Rose 
Donyell Marshall 

Raptors Get 

Penny Hardaway 
JYD 
Second Round Pick 




I dont know what to think, that does nothing worth while. are there positives? Yes but we could do better, this was reported a while ago so i aint taking it seriously.:no:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Why do a big trade now?*



> Originally posted by <b>ColinBeehler</b>!
> 
> Anyways. Thats mine, Arenas's and Speedy's take.


should i cut and paste some of my other posts as well concerning rose and marshall? :grinning:

i'm definitely part of the trading rose and yell bandwagon


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Re: Why do a big trade now?*



> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> i'm definitely part of the trading rose and yell bandwagon


As am I. Although mostly on the Marshall part. I don't think we would get significantly less for Rose a year from now than we would this year. He seems to be starting to embrace his role off the bench, and he makes us very dangerous.

I say keep him for this year, but I am not overly opposed to dealing him off for cap relief/picks/youngins.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

IT has to be sweating right now. His team is in a lot of trouble but they're still in the thick of things. Houston is not looking good and it seems like Penny is done with the Knicks. 

Do the Knicks have a draft pick to give up in the next couple years? 

This trade works

Toronto trades: SG Jalen Rose (15.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.9 minutes)
C Alonzo Mourning	(10.4 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25.4 minutes)
PF Donyell Marshall	(10.8 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.3 minutes)
Toronto receives: SG Anfernee Hardaway	(5.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.0 minutes)
SF Tim Thomas	(10.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.1 apg in 26.7 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -20.2 ppg, -10.9 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

New York trades: SG Anfernee Hardaway	(5.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.0 minutes)
SF Tim Thomas	(10.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.1 apg in 26.7 minutes)
New York receives: SG Jalen Rose	(15.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.9 minutes)
C Alonzo Mourning	(10.4 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25.4 minutes)
PF Donyell Marshall	(10.8 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +20.2 ppg, +10.9 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


It's not terribly appetizing but it will give us the (aforementioned) cap flexibility that we're looking for. A draft pick (even a second rounder) would be nice too but we are asking IT to take on Jalen for two more years and Zo at his full contract price. An added incentive for Babcock would be that it should increase the chances of getting two lotto picks this year. 

As overpaid as Penny and TT are, they still have some good ball left in them.


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

this trade sucks....doesn't make this a better team if Kurt's contract will be in the books for the next 4 years....save that for Bosh and some other FA during that time....Yes, Jalen's contract will be on the books for 3 years, but who the hell cares? if we're on a row, why break this team down right now and let the attendence drop to rock bottom....anyone notice all the empty seats now?

We are so deep this year, I believe we can beat any team in the East except for probably Detroit and Cleveland....but still Lamond and Marshall will probably be gone next year, so why not make a run this year? 

instead you tell the fans to see a limping Penny and an aging Kurt Thomas who probably cannot do much in the long run?


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

The way I see it, the only 1 for 1 deal out there involving Rose that makes sense
is Minny
Spree for Rose
better for TO expiring contract
better for Minny (my opinion) Rose is a better team player, more of a post up guy, who will be clutch in the playoffs, and i think compliments Garnett and Wally more then Spree because he will stretch the D more and be looking for the dish off more (its almost teh same situation Rose is in now, Wally is Marshall and KG is Bosh) so we know Rose is really effective in that formation
Minny is over the cap next year with or without Spree anyways so why not take on Rose


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> The way I see it, the only 1 for 1 deal out there involving Rose that makes sense
> is Minny
> Spree for Rose
> ...



You have to be concerned with Spre's attitude.. do we want this guy in our locker room effecting Bosh? Or picking fight s with Bonner? IMO Babs wont go after Spre just because of Spre's recent past and his expiring contract just may not be worth it.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> You have to be concerned with Spre's attitude.. do we want this guy in our locker room effecting Bosh? Or picking fight s with Bonner? IMO Babs wont go after Spre just because of Spre's recent past and his expiring contract just may not be worth it.


Who cares what he does in the locker room? All we see in Spree is an expiring contract... nothing more nothing less. Any contribution from him on the court will be a bonus.

I couldn't care less if he goes on vacation to Hawaii for the rest of the season.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Did Mitchell play with Spree?
Im sure Mitchell would not be allow Spree to affect the team, and if worse came to worse, just suspend him for the rest of the year, we already have players who need more mins
just use a rotation to cover the 2 and 3 of Mo, E Will, Murry, and then Palacio and Bonner to a lesser extent
and if needed this would effect the Marshall deal
thats a worse case scenerio and really thats not that bad for right now, and its frigin awsome starting next year


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I seen this "rumour" last night, but from now on I'm not trying to pay attention to any NYC media garbage, it's most likely total fictional B.S

Or it could be posturing by Babcock to get the bidding war started, either way that Marshall/Rose for Penny/Thomas will never, never, never happen

making a division rival better, isn't the smartest thing to do, as well as taking on old beat up spare parts for desirable pieces that Toronto possesses

Babcock is messing with Isiah...NY media is so lame

:laugh:


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Thomas isn't a desirable player, IMO, but he would complete our frontcourt as the big man off the bench.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Hoopsworld was saying that Indiana is now in the Marshall sweepstakes, and that Fred Jones and Picks might be a possiblity

that sounds interesting, but i might be more interested in Pollard and Picks, another big bruiser who can rebound and maybe show Hoffa some stuff, and i wouldnt want to take minutes away from Mo right now, and we could probably get a better pick with Pollard instead of Jones


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> Hoopsworld was saying that Indiana is now in the Marshall sweepstakes, and that Fred Jones and Picks might be a possiblity
> 
> that sounds interesting, but i might be more interested in Pollard and Picks, another big bruiser who can rebound and maybe show Hoffa some stuff, and i wouldnt want to take minutes away from Mo right now, and we could probably get a better pick with Pollard instead of Jones


Naw, man if we gan get Jones AND a pick that is a great deal.  We have no back up Sg on this team other than Murray, and only Milt at the point. Can Jones play point here and there?


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

I guess we could use a stating 2 for the road
but seriously i think Carter leaving was big monkey off of Mos back and he is getting the chance to prove himself and i would be really careful with how hard you push him with someone that would come in and look to be his replacement
but if Jones can be an effective pg that would be a great deal, he does have pg size, all i know about him is his driving ability, is he a good playmaker? does he ever play the 1?

i would love Pollard because for me nothing frustrates me more then when we get killed on the boards, I honestly had to stop watching that Wizards game the other night, and if could bring someone in who could stop that, its worth it to me, and someone has to show Hoffa how to block,
also i dont think Indy would do the Jones deal, especially for an expiring contract, and with Fosters increased minutes i think Pollard is realistic


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Not that much new is being said, but the Raptors and trade talk headlined today on most of the basketball sites

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap.php

SA is reporting interest in Marshall, but are offering Rose and he has a **** contract, and the last thing we need is two Rose's with bad contract

MIA is still around but Babs has not been impressed with what they are offering, which i think is great, wait it out and if they get desperate maybe we can get Wright

I cant believe E Will is being offered in trades


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> Not that much new is being said, but the Raptors and trade talk headlined today on most of the basketball sites
> 
> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap.php
> ...


I think we can make a thread out of this.


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