# Sheed signs with Boston



## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/celtics/?p=374&srvc=home&position=recent


> Wallace a Celtic
> The Celtics have reached agreement with free agent forward/center Rasheed Wallace tonight on a contract that starts at the midlevel exemption of $5.8 million, according to a league source.
> 
> The contract is believed to be for two years.
> ...


Hopefully San Antonio can get Antonio McDyess - hopefully for Boston Sheed will be motivated next season.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

HELL YEA!

Celtics are the favorites now. This is the Celtics answer to Odom off the bench.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Superb signing for the Celtics, and best of all a short contract with basically zero downside. He's not what he used to be defensively, certainly, but he's clearly superior to the crap they were peddling out there before so he's addition by default. 

But no, they're not the favorites LamarButler.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

whoa. celtics just got meaner. cant wait for next season. will go down as quite possibly the best season in league history.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

next season is going to be so ridiculous.. the top 5 teams will be head and shoulders above the rest imo.

lakers
magic
cavs
spurs
celtics


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

drooooolzzzz , i guess ill skip a few Piston games to see the Cs


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Good player to have aboard, but we still have other needs to address. We need to pray that either Dice or Grant Hill (or both) will take the vets minimum to play here.

That said, I think we're the East favorites. Lakers and Spurs are the top two teams in the league, in my opinion.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

spurs are in top 2 only if they get grant hill or dyess.. with their current nucleus, im not sure if they have enough depth. i'd say the lakers/celtics are the top two now. 

oh, and i doubt grant hill/dyess will go to the celtics when the cavs, magic, and spurs still have MLE money to throw at them. i think hill should go to cleveland, and dyess should go to san antonio.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Good player to have aboard, but we still have other needs to address. We need to pray that either Dice or Grant Hill (or both) will take the vets minimum to play here.
> 
> That said, I think we're the East favorites. Lakers and Spurs are the top two teams in the league, in my opinion.


Celtics need Matt Barnes! He'll sign for cheap- he was paid less then $1 million last season. He fits perfectly- shoots, defends, plays 2-4, energetic and athletic, can even create some shots.

Hopefully Big Baby re-signs and Stephon will wanna come back.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

afobisme said:


> spurs are in top 2 only if they get grant hill or dyess.. with their current nucleus, im not sure if they have enough depth. i'd say the lakers/celtics are the top two now.
> 
> oh, and i doubt grant hill/dyess will go to the celtics when the cavs, magic, and spurs still have MLE money to throw at them. i think hill should go to cleveland, and dyess should go to san antonio.


Cleveland should be putting the full court press on for Odom. He'd be the fourth option there, so his occasional brain farts won't hurt too much. Grant Hill doesn't offer the Cavs much. As for 'Sheed, Boston is going to set an unbreakable NBA record for F-bombs next year. I'm giddy with anticipation.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

This does make the Celtics the favorites. If Garnett played in the playoffs last year they could have made te conference finals even the finals. With Sheed it's just a plus. They are the favorites out of the East for sure now.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

.... and people hated the celtics before :laugh:

cant wait for a season full of KG, Perk and Sheed defending the paint


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

Yea the big men going up against Boston are going to go home with a lot more bruises than their average game. lol


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> *.... and people hated the celtics before :laugh:
> *
> cant wait for a season full of KG, Perk and Sheed defending the paint


Yup:

- Rondo for his dirtiness vs Chicago, and self absorption
- Pierce for exaggerating contact, playing awkwardly, and "faking" (not true)
- KG for being a bully, a trash-talker, dirty, and crazy
- Perk for saying "**** these fools!", mean-muggin 48 minutes a game, and always taunting people
- Eddie for his excessive celebrations- on the floor and off, and for his annoying son
- Sheed for his trash talking, and whining

Hopefully Big Baby and Starbury come back to make this team even more hated. Matt Barnes would up the hate level also- one reason I prefer him over Grant Hill.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

Barring injuries, next years NBA finals is guaranteed to be Lakers/Celtics. These 2 teams, especially with recent signings are clearly better than the rest.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Celtics and Lakers again. Damn. 

Rasheed Wallace is one of the best big man defenders ever. People are brainwashed by blocks, but Rasheed is one of the best if the not the best post defender in the league, and has a high IQ on the defensive end. He is a long-armed nimble 7 footer. He knows his rotations and how to help and step out on the screens and so forth. He is right there with Timmy Duncan in that regard. On top of that, nobody will question his talent offensively. 

Putting him with another top tier frontcourt defender in Garnett and one of the best defensive centers in the league in Perkins, and the Celtics might not allow a bucket in the paint until February. Scary. 

Good thing the Lakers upgraded too. Celtics one-upped them with this move though.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Carbo04 said:


> Barring injuries, next years NBA finals is guaranteed to be Lakers/Celtics. These 2 teams, especially with recent signings are clearly better than the rest.


Really? I think you can say the Lakers are clearly the best team in the West, but I don't think there's anyway you can say the Celtics, Cavs or Magic are clearly the best in the East. In fact I still think Boston will be the 3rd best team in the East next year. Not to mention there are still a lot of chips still to fall this off season. I don't think Cleveland is done, and Orlando is still looking at adding Brandon Bass or keeping Gortat as well as perhaps Grant Hill. The East is still clearly a 3 team race.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

afobisme said:


> next season is going to be so ridiculous.. the top 5 teams will be head and shoulders above the rest imo.
> 
> lakers
> magic
> ...


Yeah, and then there will be some teams that we don't really know what to expect from, who could surprise...
Detroit Pistons
Washington Wizards
Oklahoma City Thunder
Los Angeles Clippers

Next season will be awesome.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

LamarButler said:


> Yup:
> 
> - Rondo for his dirtiness vs Chicago, and self absorption
> - Pierce for exaggerating contact, playing awkwardly, and "faking" (not true)
> ...


Don't forget Ray Allen for all his unnecessary trash talking to Kobe Bryant through the media.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Off season isn't over yet. I expect Magic, Cleveland and Spurs to do a lot more.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Yeah, and then there will be some teams that we don't really know what to expect from, who could surprise...
> Detroit Pistons
> Washington Wizards
> Oklahoma City Thunder
> ...


It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the league plays this year like some of those teams you mentioned, but I think the top teams are so far and above the rest of the league it's not even funny. Teams like Toronto, Detroit, Philadelphia in the East it'll be interesting watch and see how they progress, but they can't honestly hope to compete with Boston, Orlando and Cleveland.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> Really? I think you can say the Lakers are clearly the best team in the West, but I don't think there's anyway you can say the Celtics, Cavs or Magic are clearly the best in the East. In fact I still think Boston will be the 3rd best team in the East next year. Not to mention there are still a lot of chips still to fall this off season. I don't think Cleveland is done, and Orlando is still looking at adding Brandon Bass or keeping Gortat as well as perhaps Grant Hill. The East is still clearly a 3 team race.


True about things not being done yet for this off-season. But as things are, it's all Boston in the East. I'm not sure what to think about VC in Orlando. I mean, he's a really good player but I don't know. As for Cleveland. I may be in the minority, but I think Shaq will hurt more than help.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Definitely a good signing, though in the back of my mind, I know that Sheed's played a thousand regular season games, 34 thousand minutes, and shot under 42 percent last season.

Offensively, I don't think he has much left in the tank, but that's not why Boston got him. Defensively, he's obviously valuable.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

And the rich keep getting richer...

So what team is more stacked with talent, LA or Boston?

Fisher, Bryant, Artest, Gasol, Bynum with Odom off the bench or Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Perkins with Wallace off the bench?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

So is Wallace going to come off the bench? Will they experiment with Garnett at the 3? People have always said he could do it but theres never been a reason to play him there before. Will they keep Perkins at center even though Wallace can play center?


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

They'll keep the starting 5 the way it is, and have Sheed as the first man off the bench. Sheed is probably going to be in the crunch time lineup over Perk just cause he's a better offensive player.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Front runners no doubt and now if KG goes down they have someone to step in somewhat. They are pretty old though.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Grant Hill expected to be a Celtic by the end of the week too - Tanguay (guy who first reported Sheed ocming to boston)


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

DAAAAAAMN

Grant Hill too? Can't see how you can doubt the Celtics as the favorites anymore, specially if Big Baby comes back.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Damn, Bostons frontline is pretty much Dwight Howards worst nightmare right now. KG, Perk, AND Sheed??? :eek8: (I hope he's working on his post moves :gopray

I think Magic now NEED to bring back Gortat along with splurging a little bit to sign another big like Bass for the MLE. I have a feeling Dyess will go to Cleveland. The East is improved and it will definitely be interesting, but it's hard not to like Boston right now. We'll see how CLE & ORL respond to this move.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Nobody is going to want to play a healthy Celtics team in the playoffs. They're going to be tough as nails.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Great signing which will keep KG and Sheed's minutes down because of the emergence of Big Baby.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

According to that guy Avalanche mentioned, he also said it looks like Big Baby is going to San Antonio.


http://twitter.com/Gary_Tanguay


> I expect Grant Hill to be a Celtic soon. He has met with Doc Rivers in person. Looks like Big Baby is gone to San Antonio


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Sheed has been garbage lately because the Pistons haven't really been contenders in 2-3 years. He will be motivated and is going to help out Boston. They have the best defensive frontline in the league now, and Sheed gives them a guy who can score 10 or so points a game off the bench. If the Celtics stay healthy I really can't see anyone else winning the East. I think Celtics vs. Lakers/Spurs is going to be your finals next year.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Next season is going to have some great teams, and some really really terrible teams. The playoffs are going to be fantastic though. To me, Cleveland and Orlando are still a move away from reaching Boston and Laker status.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

why Sheed has chosen Boston? He could be a starter in S.A. and Orlando...


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Rondo
Allen
Pierce
KG
Perkins
Sheed
Hill

'09 - '10 World Champions: Boston Celtics


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

Sheed is done. Nothing to be excited about here.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

hendrix2430 said:


> Sheed is done. Nothing to be excited about here.


I sense bitterness


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Babir said:


> why Sheed has chosen Boston? He could be a starter in S.A. and Orlando...


Good question. I guess he felt he has a better chance getting a ring with Jesus, The Truth and the Big Ticket rather than the Manchild and Half man Half amazin?

Although Sheed to Cleveland would of been interesting.


I have a feeling that no one wants to be second fiddle to Bron (or be in Bron's shadow and have him get all the limelight once "the King" wins his first ring). Shaq is doing it because he has to (was traded) and might as well try and get his 5th ring before Kobe.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

People seem really excited about this, but I think Sheed would've been a better fit for Cleveland, Orlando, or SA. Him and Garnett are both too soft to stay in the paint, so together they seem a little redundant. If he comes off the bench, it's definitely a good signing, but it doesn't improve the Celtics as much as he would've improved those other three teams.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Did I miss the part where the Celtics got into a time machine and warped back to 2007 or even 2008 ? The stars all have a lot of mileage on their wheels and there has already been a noticeable decline. Allen, Garnett and Wallace will all be 34 years old come next May and June and have been pros for seemingly forever. Teams can get old fast.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Its just funny that the two teams supposedly ahead of the pack just picked up two guys who are both out of control emotionally and offensively, but will help both teams on the defensive end.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

croco said:


> Did I miss the part where the Celtics got into a time machine and warped back to 2007 or even 2008 ?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If they do not trade Ray Allen, they still have zero depth on the perimeter, unless they are actually going to rely on Giddens and Walker (who got like zero NBA minutes last year).


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Grant Hill is coming in. Walker is probably going to be the other wing.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol is Boston turning into a retirement home? All this old guys, thats staking an awful lot on experience.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Sliccat said:


> Him and Garnett are both too soft to stay in the paint


Neither of them are 'soft' and both of them are capable of scoring in the paint. It's just that that Sheed's range extends out to the three point line and Garnett's go-to move is the turn-around J. I'm sure Sheed will be willing to bang a little inside if they need him to.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

I didn't want Sheed in Detroit but since he's there he will help them a lot. BTW is he starting, or coming off the bench?


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

eddymac said:


> I didn't want Sheed in Detroit but since he's there he will help them a lot. BTW is he starting, or coming off the bench?


Coming off the bench most probably. Perkins plays well with Garnett and the first unit.


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## Omega (Apr 11, 2005)

letsss do the time warp agaaiinn!!!


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> So is Wallace going to come off the bench? Will they experiment with Garnett at the 3? People have always said he could do it but theres never been a reason to play him there before. Will they keep Perkins at center even though Wallace can play center?


Sheed will come off the bench, and is more likely to see time at SF than Garnett. I still think we need another player down there though. The C's really should bring back Powe, they can get him for fairly cheap due to the injury he's currently dealing with. Garnett/Perkins/Sheed/Powe as a frontcourt rotation would just be frightening.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Sheed will come off the bench, and is more likely to see time at SF than Garnett. I still think we need another player down there though. The C's really should bring back Powe, they can get him for fairly cheap due to the injury he's currently dealing with. Garnett/Perkins/Sheed/Powe as a frontcourt rotation would just be frightening.


Sheed will not play the 3, lol.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

'Sheed is the first big off the bench. Powe is going to miss next season, so he's not really relevant to the discussion. Depending on the pricetag, Davis may or may not be back. Robert Swift is going to get summer league and training camp to show them that he has something left. Grant Hill will be the first wing off the bench, Billy Walker has the inside track on the other spot. 

They want Marbury back as a vet min signing to be the backup PG, unless they find a deal they like for their starting backcourt (say if Detroit elects to revisit the Ray/jon for Rip/'Shaun/Stuckey deal). As a fallback they'd like to package together Pruitt, TA, B-Cup Scalabrine, a suitcase full of cash, and a couple of dozen Nike sports bras (for B-Cup) for a roleplayer. If San Antonio does want to get into the bidding for Big BBQ Davis, Boston might look to do a sign & trade in hopes of prying Hill away (Ainge had given Hill a promise in '08).


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

croco said:


> Did I miss the part where the Celtics got into a time machine and warped back to 2007 or even 2008 ? The stars all have a lot of mileage on their wheels and there has already been a noticeable decline. Allen, Garnett and Wallace will all be 34 years old come next May and June and have been pros for seemingly forever. Teams can get old fast.


You and me both. I just don't see the Celtics being a much improved team next season, they're getting old and their skills are clearly diminishing, even if people don't want to admit it. Pierce looked like a fool for much of the Orlando series, relegated to jumping into people and crying. Ray Allen's struggles and inconsistencies over the past two postseasons has been well documented, there's a reason Boston's entertaining the idea of trading him. Garnett's greatness grew as he sat out as people looked for excuses for Boston's failure, and all of a sudden Garnett wasn't the Garnett that we all saw slowing down and losing a step before the injury. Now coming off an injury, I'm supposed to believe this will be vintage, MVP Kevin Garnett playing in Boston next year? I don't buy it. Like I said, third best team in the East in my opinion.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

^Idk. Im a Magic fan, but i gotta admit Boston's frontcourt is lookin' too nice.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Good signing by BOS.

CLE needs to get McDyess to respond. He should be the #1 priority for us no questions about it.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> CLE needs to get McDyess to respond. He should be the #1 priority for us no questions about it.


Actually they should be after Odom. They need someone above Joe Smith-level.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

ehmunro said:


> Actually they should be after Odom. They need someone above Joe Smith-level.


Odom would be great but he doesn't seem like a CLE winter kind of guy. 

Also we only have the MLE left to offer (Lakers would match or beat that I'd imagine), and why would he sign a multi-year MLE deal without knowing if LBJ would be there after 2010? 

The best realistic options left for CLE in FA are probably Marion or McDyess and I think Dice fits better next to Shaq.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> You and me both. I just don't see the Celtics being a much improved team next season, they're getting old and their skills are clearly diminishing, even if people don't want to admit it. Pierce looked like a fool for much of the Orlando series, relegated to jumping into people and crying. Ray Allen's struggles and inconsistencies over the past two postseasons has been well documented, there's a reason Boston's entertaining the idea of trading him. Garnett's greatness grew as he sat out as people looked for excuses for Boston's failure, and all of a sudden Garnett wasn't the Garnett that we all saw slowing down and losing a step before the injury. Now coming off an injury, I'm supposed to believe this will be vintage, MVP Kevin Garnett playing in Boston next year? *I don't buy it. Like I said, third best team in the East in my opinion.*


I'll have to quote you on this one. We'll see what happens.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Odom would be great but he doesn't seem like a CLE winter kind of guy.
> 
> Also we only have the MLE left to offer (Lakers would match or beat that I'd imagine), and why would he sign a multi-year MLE deal without knowing if LBJ would be there after 2010?


Because he'd be starting in Cleveland and playing more than thirty minutes a night. He's also a native of New York and the northeast. So I imagine that he's used to winter. The Cavs would include an opt-out anyway so that they could up his contract after 2011, so he'd simply be able to leave if 'Bron did.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

hobojoe said:


> You and me both. I just don't see the Celtics being a much improved team next season, they're getting old and their skills are clearly diminishing, even if people don't want to admit it. Pierce looked like a fool for much of the Orlando series, relegated to jumping into people and crying. Ray Allen's struggles and inconsistencies over the past two postseasons has been well documented, there's a reason Boston's entertaining the idea of trading him. Garnett's greatness grew as he sat out as people looked for excuses for Boston's failure, and all of a sudden Garnett wasn't the Garnett that we all saw slowing down and losing a step before the injury. Now coming off an injury, I'm supposed to believe this will be vintage, MVP Kevin Garnett playing in Boston next year? I don't buy it. Like I said, third best team in the East in my opinion.


Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. That doesn't mean you should share your belly button with everyone now does it? 

A little hate in this post but I see your point. Completely healthy, you can't say you'd want to face this team in a 7 game series. Old or not this puts the Celtic's front court ahead of the Lakers, Cavs, and Magic.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Everyone of these teams except the Spurs has the ability to be great or implode, should be great to watch either way. 

Orl : Hedo used to dribble and drive the ball to the paint to make short jumpers. VC just launches from outside, They already have Lewis to do that. No penetration = very stagnant offense. No real distributing PG and a bunch of guys wanting their shots. Recipe for disaster. 

Bos : KG and Allen have had leg issues in recent years and are only getting older. Rasheed has not played well in years. Nor has Marbury. Let's not forget the problems Rondo has with the coach. They can beat Orl or Cle but, lose to the young, fast Sixers and can barely beat the Hawks.

LA :Artest sounds great so far but, we can't know until the first blow up on the court or at practice...and there will be one ! Bynum still hasn't made it through a full season and Fish is a year older with no real replacement.

Cle : The whole front line is old and slow. When Shaq clogs that lane and LeBron is forced to take jumpers...Oh boy !! Amare could hit from outside, Kobe can live outside. Can LeBron ?? If he gets frustrated and starts dreaming about next year in Jersey, they will be done.

Spurs: They are whom they are. As long as Duncan is there, you have to consider them. Solid, stable and now rested. Will it be enough ?


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

LA68 said:


> Spurs: They are whom they are. As long as Duncan is there, you have to consider them. Solid, stable and now rested. Will it be enough ?


You didn't mention the addition of Jefferson making the Spurs that much more dangerous with a great system already in place.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

stevemc said:


> Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. That doesn't mean you should share your belly button with everyone now does it?
> 
> A little hate in this post but I see your point. Completely healthy, you can't say you'd want to face this team in a 7 game series. *Old or not this puts the Celtic's front court ahead of the Lakers, Cavs, and Magic.*


Maybe as a unit, but individually, Dwight is currently >>>>> ________.  Plus, Magic & Crabs can still add another piece or two. If we sign Bass and are somehow willing to match for Gortat, Orlando's frontcourt will be right up there with Boston defensively... They might have us on offense, but we can always slide Rashard up to the 4. Should be interesting to see how both Orlando and Cleveland respond to this power move tho.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

briaN37 said:


> Sheed will not play the 3, lol.


Why, because you sez so?



As previously mentioned, a big lineup of Rondo/Pierce/Sheed/KG/Perk would put the paint on absolute lockdown. Sheed is still agile enough to stay with the average NBA small forward, and the fact that he has 3-pt range doesn't hurt his case.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> You and me both. I just don't see the Celtics being a much improved team next season, they're getting old and their skills are clearly diminishing, even if people don't want to admit it. Pierce looked like a fool for much of the Orlando series, relegated to jumping into people and crying. Ray Allen's struggles and inconsistencies over the past two postseasons has been well documented, there's a reason Boston's entertaining the idea of trading him. Garnett's greatness grew as he sat out as people looked for excuses for Boston's failure, and all of a sudden Garnett wasn't the Garnett that we all saw slowing down and losing a step before the injury. Now coming off an injury, I'm supposed to believe this will be vintage, MVP Kevin Garnett playing in Boston next year? I don't buy it. Like I said, third best team in the East in my opinion.


Why don't you just predict the team plane to crash en route to a preseason game already? Get it over with.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

LA68 said:


> Bos : KG and Allen have had leg issues in recent years and are only getting older. Rasheed has not played well in years. Nor has Marbury. Let's not forget the problems Rondo has with the coach. *They can beat Orl or Cle but, lose to the young, fast Sixers and can barely beat the Hawks.*


Grammatical hilarity aside, are you really citing the 2008 series against the Hawks as evidence of our downfall?

I don't even know where you got Philly from.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Maybe as a unit, but individually, Dwight is currently >>>>> ________.  Plus, Magic & Crabs can still add another piece or two. If we sign Bass and are somehow willing to match for Gortat, Orlando's frontcourt will be right up there with Boston defensively... They might have us on offense, but we can always slide Rashard up to the 4. Should be interesting to see how both Orlando and Cleveland respond to this power move tho.


I'm sure it's going to be Bass or Gorfag. Same with the Mavs. One or the other. Neither will end up with both. Both are looking for their mid20's payday.

And of course, Dwight is only a solid post move or two from being completely unstoppable. Even now it's giving up 2 points not doubling him.

Shard at the 4 would mean KG on him. Depending on Garnett's rehab this matchup can go either way. Shard can only watch KG's fade away while he should be able to blow by the older KG. Key word there is should, he never seems to be as aggressive driving past defenders as I'd like him to be.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Why, because you sez so?
> 
> 
> 
> As previously mentioned, a big lineup of Rondo/Pierce/Sheed/KG/Perk would put the paint on absolute lockdown. Sheed is still agile enough to stay with the average NBA small forward, and the fact that he has 3-pt range doesn't hurt his case.


He used to be that agile... KG used to be even more agile than that. I would imagine if KG were to come back fully from his rehab he'd be more likely to be at the 3 since he's had more experience guarding perimeter players through out his career. I remember the Twolves would even have him at the top of the key smothering the opposing point guard with his ungodly wingspan and freaky quicks.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

LA68 said:


> Orl : Hedo used to dribble and drive the ball to the paint to make short jumpers. VC just launches from outside, They already have Lewis to do that. No penetration = very stagnant offense. No real distributing PG and a bunch of guys wanting their shots. Recipe for disaster.


You kidding me?? You think Hedo could penetrate but Vince cant?? Is that a joke :lol:??? Vince has always been defended as a #1 guy and has the ability to take his man 1-v-1. Hedo relys on ball movement and screens to get good looks. Looks created largely by the presence of Dwight Howard. Vince has always been able to create consistently in iso situations. Give him a great big like Dwight, and shooters who can spread the floor for him and the game should be a lot easier for him. He's a better finisher than Hedo at the rim and is a more consistent scorer on the whole(note his career avg's). Hedo has never been a consistent option game-in, game-out, but he worked well on an Orlando where he had numerous different options to defer to and to space the floor. I'm happy for Hedo that he is getting paid and getting a big role in Toronto, but at the same time I think the offense should run just as good with VC out there imo, if not better. 

I think VC's bball IQ is > Hedo's and he is all around a more polished/consistent player. VC is a natural go-to-guy who can put up 30+ any night. Hedo was a psuedo closer, who everyone said wasnt good enough until Orlando made it to the finals this year. Everyone said we needed a closer who can create his own shot. Well now we have one in Vince. Lewis is nothing like Vince, btw.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

stevemc said:


> He used to be that agile... KG used to be even more agile than that. I would imagine if KG were to come back fully from his rehab he'd be more likely to be at the 3 since he's had more experience guarding perimeter players through out his career. I remember the Twolves would even have him at the top of the key smothering the opposing point guard with his ungodly wingspan and freaky quicks.


Well who else could guard the PG on those teams? Troy Hudson?


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Well who else could guard the PG on those teams? Troy Hudson?


:rofl:

Nice.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

stevemc said:


> *I'm sure it's going to be Bass or Gorfag. Same with the Mavs. One or the other. Neither will end up with both. Both are looking for their mid20's payday.*
> 
> And of course, Dwight is only a solid post move or two from being completely unstoppable. Even now it's giving up 2 points not doubling him.
> 
> Shard at the 4 would mean KG on him. Depending on Garnett's rehab this matchup can go either way. Shard can only watch KG's fade away while he should be able to blow by the older KG. Key word there is should, he never seems to be as aggressive driving past defenders as I'd like him to be.


I think it will most likely be one or the other as well, but I just noticed Gortat is restricted and Bass is not. So Magic could do it, but it would certainly cost them a good bit.... Bass' agent said that Dallas would have to outbid current offers, and that merely matching wouldn't be enough to keep Bass. So if Magic give Bass full MLE and we match Gortat, Then Dallas would have to pay Bass more than MLE to keep him. Like I said tho, Magic would have to be willing to pay big bucks. Sheed to Boston changes things and makes a deep frontcourt an important issue.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> I think it will most likely be one or the other as well, but I just noticed Gortat is restricted and Bass is not. So Magic could do it, but it would certainly cost them a good bit.... Bass' agent said that Dallas would have to outbid current offers, and that merely matching wouldn't be enough to keep Bass. So if Magic give Bass full MLE and we match Gortat, Then Dallas would have to pay Bass more than MLE to keep him. Like I said tho, Magic would have to be willing to pay big bucks. Sheed to Boston changes things and makes a deep frontcourt an important issue.


Either player would be a good addition (retention) to the Magic but for the Mavs it seems like a bandaid for a broken arm type situation. Neither player is going to put them in contention with the West elite.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Why would anyone want Sheed playing the 3? He's not that mobile a big man.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

LA68 said:


> Everyone of these teams except the Spurs has the ability to be great or implode, should be great to watch either way.
> 
> LA :Artest sounds great so far but, we can't know until the first blow up on the court or at practice...and there will be one ! Bynum still hasn't made it through a full season and Fish is a year older with no real replacement.


Artest was pretty cool in Houston, but then again he had Adelman who is known to get the most hostile personalities in line. Kobe can't ***** on Artest like he would Gasol and Vaginachic. How will Kobe feel during those games Artest launches 4/17(2/11 from 3), gets his shot blocked 3-4 times, and turns it over an additional 4 times while forcing it 30ft away from the basket. I think it's gonna work but I won't be surprised to see a lil conflict in the locker room.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

stevemc said:


> Either player would be a good addition (retention) to the Magic but for the Mavs it seems like a bandaid for a broken arm type situation. Neither player is going to put them in contention with the West elite.


I agree. Dallas is just trying to stay competitive, but not really improving with either of them. Bass really isnt the answer for them long term or short term, unless they plan on trading Dirk and rebuilding. Gortat isnt really the answer for them either. He's not really an impact player, just a solid role player who wont make too many mistakes but wont really take them over the hump either. At least Gortat be a good short term solution for Orlando as a backup, and Bass can be a good long term option here as the starting 4 for many years. Magic can pay both now, and then move Gortat in the near future once we get more situated and Dwight more developed(like in 1-2 yrs). But Mark Cuban doesnt care about money that much, so he will pay whatever just to stay competitive.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> I agree. Dallas is just trying to stay competitive, but not really improving with either of them. Bass really isnt the answer for them long term or short term, unless they plan on trading Dirk and rebuilding. Gortat isnt really the answer for them either. He's not really an impact player, just a solid role player who wont make too many mistakes but wont really take them over the hump either. At least Gortat be a good short term solution for Orlando as a backup, and Bass can be a good long term option here as the starting 4 for many years. Magic can pay both now, and then move Gortat in the near future once we get more situated and Dwight more developed(like in 1-2 yrs). But Mark Cuban doesnt care about money that much, so he will pay whatever just to stay competitive.


If he wants to stay competitive and make money at the same time he would go back to the fast breakin Mavs. It'd be far more entertaining for the fan base and also brings new fans in since everyone enjoys offensive fireworks. Especially if you're attempts to be a balanced team are just going to lead to further playoff embarrassment. Now, If they were able to sign Sheed they could continue in the same direction of win now with a balanced team.


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## Plastic Man (Nov 8, 2004)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Artest was pretty cool in Houston, but then again he had Adelman who is known to get the most hostile personalities in line. Kobe can't ***** on Artest like he would Gasol and Vaginachic. How will Kobe feel during those games Artest launches 4/17(2/11 from 3), gets his shot blocked 3-4 times, and turns it over an additional 4 times while forcing it 30ft away from the basket. I think it's gonna work but I won't be surprised to see a lil conflict in the locker room.


Did you see Ron Ron interviewing Kobe? He was like a little schoolgirl with a crush and the respect is mutual. Kobe, in my opinion, respects Artest because regardless of his mistakes, he wants to win and plays hard every single time he steps on the floor. Which can't be said for the Cooks, Parkers, and Radmanovics and others Bryant's had conflicts with. I might be a blind homer, but I just don't envision the Ron-Kobe relation as being a potential negative aspect of this signing.

As for the Sheed signing, I think it'll prove out to be one of the most underrated FA signings this off season. Playing for a contender is just what the doctor ordered for Wallace.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

stevemc said:


> Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. That doesn't mean you should share your belly button with everyone now does it?
> 
> A little hate in this post but I see your point. Completely healthy, you can't say you'd want to face this team in a 7 game series. Old or not this puts the Celtic's front court ahead of the Lakers, Cavs, and Magic.


No hate (except the Pierce bit) but you have to admit Garnett's absence suddenly vaulted him back up to prime Garnett status in terms of value and impact when that's simply not the reality. Boston is probably the best team in the league defensively now, but they're not offensively on par with Orlando or Los Angeles, and they don't have a single player that can score at will when they need it like Cleveland does. And they're losing Big Baby. 



Jacoby Ellsbury said:


> Why don't you just predict the team plane to crash en route to a preseason game already? Get it over with.


You seem to be a bitter fan to have a reaction like that to what I said. It's not like a predicted injuries or anything, I simply analyzed the situation as is stands.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> You seem to be a bitter fan to have a reaction like that to what I said. It's not like a predicted injuries or anything, I simply analyzed the situation as is stands.


No, you're predicting the apocalypse and passing it off as realistic and objective analysis.


Where does my 'bitterness' come into play here?


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

hobojoe said:


> No hate (except the Pierce bit) but you have to admit Garnett's absence suddenly vaulted him back up to prime Garnett status in terms of value and impact when that's simply not the reality. Boston is probably the best team in the league defensively now, but they're not offensively on par with Orlando or Los Angeles, and they don't have a single player that can score at will when they need it like Cleveland does. And they're losing Big Baby.


He brings more to the table than you're trying to give him credit for, that's for sure. No one is saying he'll be MVP next year but he affects almost every aspect of a game making everyone in the green jerseys better.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> No, you're predicting the apocalypse and passing it off as realistic and objective analysis.
> 
> 
> Where does my 'bitterness' come into play here?


He projected the Celtics as the third best team in the East. That is equal to the apocalypse ?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

croco said:


> He projected the Celtics as the third best team in the East. That is equal to the apocalypse ?


He's predicting that KG will come back without vengeance or passion after his absence factored directly into them not getting past Orlando. There's been local reports that KG would have played against Cleveland had it got that far, which is why he delayed the surgery and had it immediately after the C's were eliminated.

He's yapping about Pierce forcing contact with other players and 'crying' about not getting the foul. In the grand scheme, does this even _matter_? 

He thinks Ray's inconsistencies in the past two postseasons actually count for something in this coming season/postseason. And oh yeah, didn't we win the championship in 08 despite his mostly terrible performance? The reason he's been in trade talks is because of his expiring contract, not his on-court play. The Celtics could conceivably use that contract to get a couple of younger guys and maybe rebuild (partially) on the fly.

Almost everything he stated pertaining to KG and Ray was inaccurate, and his Pierce-slamming was just lazy. I mean, it barely related to his actual _play_. Hobojoe was just recycling typical Celtic-hater material, much as I dislike that term.

But to answer your question, I do think placing third in the east would be a small apocalypse. Lower than that would be a total ****storm.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

60% of Celtics starting line-up is over 32. They just brought in a 35 yr old PF to be their 6ath man, and are targetting 36 a yr old Grant Hill. If healthy, Boston is a nice team, But it's not out of the question nor would be a shock to anyone if they suffered a serious injury or two this season leaving them at around the 3rd seed. But if healthy, i agree they have to be the favorites at this very moment.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> 60% of Celtics starting line-up is over 32. They just brought in a 35 yr old PF to be their 6ath man, and are targetting 36 a yr old Grant Hill. If healthy, Boston is a nice team, But it's not out of the question nor would be a shock to anyone if they suffered a serious injury or two this season leaving them at around the 3rd seed. But if healthy, i agree they have to be the favorites at this very moment.


He usually makes the Celts out to be this all world team whilst at the same time putting down other teams and if you happen to disagree, he'll call you some unrealistic homer. Everyone can see that the team is older and they are actually thinking of bringing in Grant Hill lol. I like the Celts chances but I dont think they are far and away the clear cut favorites for the 'ship.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

HB said:


> He usually makes the Celts out to be this all world team whilst at the same time putting down other teams and if you happen to disagree, he'll call you some unrealistic homer. Everyone can see that the team is older and they are actually thinking of bringing in Grant Hill lol. I like the Celts chances but I dont think they are far and away the clear cut favorites for the 'ship.


Field of strawmen.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

I agree, HB. I also hate those certain Boston sports fans that march around like they are entitled to a certain position and trash others. Boston(as a city) may have one of the most ridiculous/annoying fanbases in all of sports. You have to bare with them.  All I can say is, Boston has a nice little team, but I agree that their fans really has no right to be cocky right now....


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> I agree, HB. I also hate those certain Boston sports fans that march around like they are entitled to a certain position and trash others. Boston(as a city) may have one of the most ridiculous fanbases in all of sports. You have to bare with them.  All I can say is, Boston has a nice little team, but I agree that their fans really has no right to be cocky right now....


O noez!!! :sad: :sad:


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

By the way, a CM might consider moving the discussion taking place in this thread over to this one, since its pretty out of place in the former.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> No, you're predicting the apocalypse and passing it off as realistic and objective analysis.
> 
> 
> Where does my 'bitterness' come into play here?


Where am I predicting anything? I'm evaluating the team they have assembled, and I think they're not going to be as good as Cleveland and Orlando. What predictions am I making that I'm trying to pass off as fact? 

Do you or do you not think that Pierce was exposed a bit in the Orlando series? Yes or no? Was he not playing at the mercy of the officials bailing him out, and struggling to do anything productive for much of the series otherwise? 

Do you think Allen's aging is clearly showing, and he is not a reliable go to guy in the playoffs? He had some great games and great moments in the playoffs, but is he reliable?

Is Kevin Garnett, the basketball player, what he was a few years ago? I have no doubt that he'll come back and be the great leader that he is, a beast on defense and on the boards and he'll knock down the mid range jumper with regularity. But this is not the Kevin Garnett of old, this is the old Kevin Garnett who has lost a step and can't be relied upon as a go to guy offensively either. 

The same can be said for Rasheed Wallace. There's no doubt he'll be motivated, but his skills are diminished as well. There's no denying his ability and what he's done over his career. He's been a defensive anchor and a versatile big man who you can go to in the post and who can hit a big three for you. 

This Celtics core is still a group of aging veterans who will no doubt be a force to be reckoned with come playoff time, but Cleveland and Orlando were right there with Boston last year even with Garnett. Cleveland got Shaq and are still going to make another move or two IMO, Orlando lost Turkoglu but acquired Vince Carter (and you wanna use the motivation argument with Sheed...), will have a healthy Jameer Nelson and likely another big man to compliment Dwight. Take into account those two teams are centered around YOUNG stars who are likely to step up their game each year as they approach their primes, Boston has the opposite effect working for them. You can talk about Rondo closing that gap, but again I would counter that argument with the Celtics looking to trade him after a phenomenal postseason and what that says. Not to mention his inability to hit a jump shot. I'm not calling Boston trash, but I walk into this thread and read them being anointed the 2010 champions with no counter argument. Like I said, Cleveland, Boston and Orlando are a lot better than any other team in the East, they're on a level of their own. I just think Orlando and Cleveland are in a better position to win this year.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> He thinks Ray's inconsistencies in the past two postseasons actually count for something in this coming season/postseason. And oh yeah, didn't we win the championship in 08 despite his mostly terrible performance? The reason he's been in trade talks is because of his expiring contract, not his on-court play. The Celtics could conceivably use that contract to get a couple of younger guys and maybe rebuild (partially) on the fly.


And this is a terrible argument. LeBron James has an expiring contract too, you don't see the Cavaliers shopping him around. If Allen's on court abilities weren't expendable, they wouldn't be shopping him, period.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

stevemc said:


> If he wants to stay competitive and make money at the same time he would go back to the fast breakin Mavs. It'd be far more entertaining for the fan base and also brings new fans in since everyone enjoys offensive fireworks. Especially if you're attempts to be a balanced team are just going to lead to further playoff embarrassment. Now, If they were able to sign Sheed they could continue in the same direction of win now with a balanced team.


Yup, they shoulda been patient and kept Harris. Trading for Kidd shrunk their window drastically. They might as well look to rebuild as soon as possible now. I really dont see them getting any better than they were last year w/ an aging Dirk and Kidd....


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Sheed is still agile enough to stay with the average NBA small forward, and the fact that he has 3-pt range doesn't hurt his case.


34 year old, 6'11", 230 pound guy is agile enough to stay up with the average NBA small forward? No.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

HB said:


> Why would anyone want Sheed playing the 3? He's not that mobile a big man.


Exactly.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

> I agree, HB. I also hate those certain Boston sports fans that march around like they are entitled to a certain position and trash others. Boston(as a city) may have one of the most ridiculous/annoying fanbases in all of sports. You have to bare with them. All I can say is, Boston has a nice little team, but I agree that their fans really has no right to be cocky right now....



I am actually thinking of applying to the Celts organization as a walker. Maybe I can help push around all those old men on wheel chairs.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> Where am I predicting anything? I'm evaluating the team they have assembled, and I think they're not going to be as good as Cleveland and Orlando. What predictions am I making that I'm trying to pass off as fact?


You're predicting that they won't be as good as Cleveland and Orlando. Your analysis is the reasoning for such prediction.



> Do you or do you not think that Pierce was exposed a bit in the Orlando series? Yes or no? Was he not playing at the mercy of the officials bailing him out, and struggling to do anything productive for much of the series otherwise?


No, but you can relate his struggles to Allen's then-meaningful struggles. 



> Do you think Allen's aging is clearly showing, and he is not a reliable go to guy in the playoffs? He had some great games and great moments in the playoffs, *but is he reliable?*


Yes.

Pierce and Allen were pretty fatigued at playoff time last year to begin with, due to the fact that there weren't any reliable players off the bench to relieve of some minutes during the season. Factor in KG's injury and absence on top of that, and logic can tell you the rest.



> Is Kevin Garnett, the basketball player, what he was a few years ago? I have no doubt that he'll come back and be the great leader that he is, a beast on defense and on the boards and he'll knock down the mid range jumper with regularity. But this is not the Kevin Garnett of old, this is the old Kevin Garnett who has lost a step and can't be relied upon as a go to guy offensively either.


We don't need him to be *the guy* offensively. He never was *the guy* offensively, since coming here. But he's still plenty good for 17+ points a game, unless his minutes are crunched a bit to save him for the playoffs.



> The same can be said for Rasheed Wallace. There's no doubt he'll be motivated, but his skills are diminished as well. There's no denying his ability and what he's done over his career. He's been a defensive anchor and a versatile big man who you can go to in the post and who can hit a big three for you.


He's coming off the bench. We don't need vintage Rasheed Wallace. He can still play superior post defense, fairly adequate man defense, has range, and as you said will be motivated. Sign me up. 



> This Celtics core is still a group of aging veterans who will no doubt be a force to be reckoned with come playoff time, but Cleveland and Orlando were right there with Boston last year even with Garnett.


What are you talking about?



> Cleveland got Shaq and are still going to make another move or two IMO, Orlando lost Turkoglu but acquired Vince Carter (and you wanna use the motivation argument with Sheed...), will have a healthy Jameer Nelson and likely another big man to compliment Dwight.


Um, okay. Boston had a great chance to take the Orlando series in 6 games, but folded in game 6 and got burned by banking on game 7. Without Garnett. A healthy Garnett counters everything Orlando has done, from upgrading from Turkoglu to Carter, and from Alston to Nelson.

The Shaq trade has an equal potential of hindering Cleveland as it does helping them.



> Take into account those two teams are centered around YOUNG stars who are likely to step up their game each year as they approach their primes, Boston has the opposite effect working for them.


But can the Celtics go toe-to-toe with them *this* season?



> You can talk about Rondo closing that gap, but again I would counter that argument with the Celtics looking to trade him after a phenomenal postseason and what that says. Not to mention his inability to hit a jump shot. I'm not calling Boston trash, but I walk into this thread and read them being anointed the 2010 champions with no counter argument. Like I said, Cleveland, Boston and Orlando are a lot better than any other team in the East, they're on a level of their own. I just think Orlando and Cleveland are in a better position to win this year.


Babble.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> And this is a terrible argument. LeBron James has an expiring contract too, you don't see the Cavaliers shopping him around. If Allen's on court abilities weren't expendable, they wouldn't be shopping him, period.


LeBron James is the best player in the NBA and the life of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Allen, I'd say, is the fourth most important player on the Celtics as constructed, behind KG, Pierce, and Rondo. Cleveland trading LeBron would be a huge panic move (since they'd probably have a strong sense that he has his mind set elsewhere) with the goal of a total rebuild. Boston trading Allen would be rebuilding on the fly. Getting a couple of nice pieces (hopefully) that could help us this year in a playoff run and serve as building blocks for the future. There is a difference.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

briaN37 said:


> 34 year old, 6'11", 230 pound guy is agile enough to stay up with the average NBA small forward? No.


What does listing his vitals do for your argument, other than discredit because of a laughable source?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

HB said:


> I am actually thinking of applying to the Celts organization as a walker. Maybe I can help push around all those old men on wheel chairs.


And you fail at humor (well, _intentional_ humor) as well. Good lord, this list is getting lengthy.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> And you fail at humor (well, _intentional_ humor) as well. Good lord, this list is getting lengthy.


Even if the Celts had a live Leprechaun on the bench, they wouldn't win the title next year.

Better :wink:


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

HB said:


> Even if the Celts had a live Leprechaun on the bench, they wouldn't win the title next year.
> 
> Better :wink:


Now a smiley fail. Priceless.


And no, that was even worse than your last attempt at humor. At least the first one made sense.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Lol @ this Boston fan going on a power trip after ONE move. Just understand ORL and CLE arent going anywhere, Jacob. Even with BOS healthy, ORL and CLE both had very similar records heading into mid-late january before all the injuries. Boston is gonna be right there again, but you really need to settle down. You're team is hella old.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Lol @ this Boston fan going on a power trip after ONE move. Just understand ORL and CLE arent going anywhere, Jacob. Even with BOS healthy, ORL and CLE both had very similar records heading into mid-late january before all the injuries. Boston is gonna be right there again, but you really need to settle down. You're team is hella old.


Why do I need to settle down? I think we're the best team in the East, and a lot of the reasons why we would falter are either a) overrated, or b) just plain junk. I also think your Orlando fanship puts your objectivity here into question, sport.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> What does listing his vitals do for your argument, other than discredit because of a laughable source?


Huh? It's from ESPN. All that aside, Rasheed has never been a physical stand-out and although we all know him for his three point shooting, most of his points still come from hook shots and 10 - 12 footers. The guy is 34 years old... do you really think he's going to keep up with the Lebrons and Carmelos? He does his best work when he's in the paint blocking shots. The whole idea of Sheed playing the 3 is absurd, I don't know what else I can say.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

briaN37 said:


> Huh? It's from ESPN. All that aside, Rasheed has never been a physical stand-out and although we all know him for his three point shooting, most of his points still come from hook shots and 10 - 12 footers.


What's from ESPN? His vitals? Cookie for you for fetching them.



> The guy is 34 years old... do you really think he's going to keep up with the Lebrons and Carmelos?


They are top tier small forwards. I'm saying he can play against average small forwards. There's a difference here.



> He does his best work when he's in the paint blocking shots. The whole idea of Sheed playing the 3 is absurd, I don't know what else I can say.


Sheed isn't even a shot blocker. My god.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Now a smiley fail. Priceless.
> 
> 
> And no, that was even worse than your last attempt at humor. At least the first one made sense.


All in good fun Jacoby. All in good fun!


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> What's from ESPN? His vitals? Cookie for you for fetching them.


Aw thanks.



Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> They are top tier small forwards. I'm saying he can play against average small forwards. There's a difference here.


Name an average small forward.



Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Sheed isn't even a shot blocker. My god.


Yes he is? One of the best.


EDIT: If this was Sheed from the Jailblazers you could have an argument, but the guy is THIRTY FOUR YEARS OLD.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

briaN37 said:


> Name an average small forward.


Wilson Chandler.



> Yes he is? One of the best.


He hasn't even averaged 2 blocks a game in any season of his career.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Wilson Chandler.
> 
> 
> 
> He hasn't even averaged 2 blocks a game in any season of his career.


You obviously have not watched him play. He's one of the best post defenders in the league.

And really? You think that as of right now, Wilson Chandler would not be able to out-run Rasheed Wallace (34 years old, 6'11, 230 pounds )?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

briaN37 said:


> You obviously have not watched him play. He's one of the best post defenders in the league.


YES HE ****ING IS. BUT YOU WERE PRAISING HIS SHOT BLOCKING, WHICH I JUST PROVED WRONG. WHICH IS IT??



> And really? You think that as of right now, Wilson Chandler would not be able to out-run Rasheed Wallace (34 years old, 6'11, 230 pounds )?


Are you, like, new to the game of basketball?


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> YES HE ****ING IS. BUT YOU WERE PRAISING HIS SHOT BLOCKING, WHICH I JUST PROVED WRONG. WHICH IS IT??


Interior presence. Although he's an above average shot blocker.



Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Are you, like, new to the game of basketball?


No and I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me either. But I just don't think we'll be seeing Rasheed Wallace guarding Wilson Chandler next year. You said it yourself, you think he's a good post defender so why on earth would the Celtics waste one of the only things he was brought in for? His skills aren't limited to the perimeter either, he has a complete post game. I just don't see it.

Sorry if I came off as rude or arrogant.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

briaN37 said:


> Interior presence. Although he's an above average shot blocker.
> 
> 
> No and I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me either. But I just don't think we'll be seeing Rasheed Wallace guarding Wilson Chandler next year. You said it yourself, you think he's a good post defender so why on earth would the Celtics waste one of the only things he was brought in for? His skills aren't limited to the perimeter either, he has a complete post game. I just don't see it.


 
This would be all well and good if you didn't constantly change your stance.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> This would be all well and good if you didn't constantly change your stance.


What did I change my stance on? Besides the whole shot-blocking and post defense mix-up which I apologize for, I always thought that the two were linked in a way. Both of which have to do with interior presence which is what I wanted to point out. Still this doesn't really change anything. Both of those skills would be utilized best if he was playing the 4 or 5.

EDIT: This seems a little silly that we're arguing over such a small matter when we both think that the Celtics are going to be beastly next season .


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Boston>Orlando, not even an argument. 

A KG-less Celtics could've finished the Nelson-less Magic in 6 games, but let it slip in Game 7. Shows you that the two teams without those players were pretty even. If they were playing fully healthy, the Celtics would've stomped on the Magic hard, seeing as KG's impact>>>Nelson's (don't give me that bull**** on how Nelson's such a playmaker, Garnett is >>> the player he is, therefore his impact is way bigger no matter what roles they play for their team). Seeing as a full Celtics squad would stomp on a full Magic squad (pre-Carter), the difference between the teams plus the additions of Sheed and Grant Hill can't be made up for by a Turkoglu, Lee, Alston for Vince swap.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

LamarButler said:


> Boston>Orlando, not even an argument.
> 
> A KG-less Celtics could've finished the Nelson-less Magic in 6 games, but let it slip in Game 7. Shows you that the two teams without those players were pretty even. If they were playing fully healthy, the Celtics would've stomped on the Magic hard, seeing as KG's impact>>>Nelson's (don't give me that bull**** on how Nelson's such a playmaker, Garnett is >>> the player he is, therefore his impact is way bigger no matter what roles they play for their team). Seeing as a full Celtics squad would stomp on a full Magic squad (pre-Carter), the difference between the teams plus the additions of Sheed and Grant Hill can't be made up for by a Turkoglu, Lee, Alston for Vince swap.


GTFOutta here. Magic let two games slip against LA. Boo ****ing hoo. Lakers won the series. They were the better team, just like Magic were better than Boston. Magic could've very easily beat Boston in 6 if we didn't choke away games 4 and 5. Get over yourselves, already. 

Magic really werent healthy all year either with Pietrus in&out of the lineup early, and Meer out in the 2nd half. We still had the best record in the league in mid-late January right before Meer went down and when KG was still healthy. Lee didnt even play the 1st two games. You simply have no basis to assume a full Celtics squad would _stomp_ a full Magic squad, outside of your own opinion.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I love how Jacoby Ellsbury attempts to counter my points by responding with irrelevant Celtics slurping, and when he has absolutely no response he resorts to "What are you talking about?" when quoting a very simple, impossible to not understand point and "Babble" on a paragraph he has no response to. Funny how that works. 


Also: 


LamarButler said:


> Boston>Orlando, not even an argument.
> 
> A KG-less Celtics could've finished the Nelson-less Magic in 6 games, but let it slip in Game 7. Shows you that the two teams without those players were pretty even. If they were playing fully healthy, the Celtics would've stomped on the Magic hard, seeing as KG's impact>>>Nelson's (don't give me that bull**** on how Nelson's such a playmaker, Garnett is >>> the player he is, therefore his impact is way bigger no matter what roles they play for their team). Seeing as a full Celtics squad would stomp on a full Magic squad (pre-Carter), the difference between the teams plus the additions of Sheed and Grant Hill can't be made up for by a Turkoglu, Lee, Alston for Vince swap.


You'd think a fan of a team who just got knocked out in the playoffs by another would be a little less arrogant than to say "my team > your team, not even an argument". You can surround that *fact* with all the fluff and speculation you want, but that's the fact. I will once again point out that record wise the Magic, Celtics and Cavaliers were all bunched up even before Garnett was injured. You can't say they were definitively better before the injury, I think the Celtics healthy would've likely beat the Magic because they match up well. But you're still missing the point that if none of the teams had made any moves this offseason at all, the Magic and Cavaliers best players are 23/24 year old superstars who are only getting better, the Celtics' core is old and declining. I don't think anyone will argue that. 

Again, I'm not saying the Celtics are definitely worse than the Magic and Cavs. I think they are, but it's close. There's definitely arguments to be made. I just don't think there's anyway you can say the Celtics are definitely better than the Magic or the Cavs. I like what the Cavs did in getting Shaq, I think he has another title run in him. LeBron is only going to get better with all the pressure on him to win now. I think the Magic definitely made an upgrade at go to playmaker with Vince Carter for Hedo Turkoglu. Carter will now be the guy to create much of the offense along with a healthy Nelson, and run the pick and roll with Dwight as well as making his open jump shots. Stan will have him playing defense. Having a healthy and confident Pietrus all season will help, adding front court depth if they can get Bass and another piece or two. The experience gained from last year, the development of Dwight as a scorer and leader. There's a lot to like about the Magic going forward. The way I see it, Boston, Cleveland and Orlando were pretty close last year. They've all made moves to make themselves better via trade and free agency, but Cleveland and Orlando are moving the right way in terms of age and progression of their most important players, Boston is moving the wrong way and their window of opportunity is closing with the Pierce/Allen/Garnett core.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> I love how Jacoby Ellsbury attempts to counter my points by responding with irrelevant Celtics slurping, and when he has absolutely no response he resorts to "What are you talking about?" when quoting a very simple, impossible to not understand point and "Babble" on a paragraph he has no response to. Funny how that works.


Still not getting it? Fine, I'll try and explain it Barney-style.

I responded with 'what are you talking about?' when you said that Cleveland, Boston, and Orlando were bunched up in the standings at the time of KG's injury, in late February. I see now that I made a mistake in thinking that you got your points mixed up, and realize that you were trying to sneak a completely meaningless piece of info by me. Better luck next time.

I responded with 'babble' in response to slew of junk you threw at me that I either never doubted (such as the Cavs, Magic, and Celtics all being head and shoulders above every other team in the east), or never stated something to the contrary. (such as your Rondo idea, about him not bridging the age cap). In other words, I was responding to a bunch of empty, irrelevant words that you stated in bulk, for whatever reason.

Caught up?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> GTFOutta here. Magic let two games slip against LA. Boo ****ing hoo. Lakers won the series. They were the better team, just like Magic were better than Boston. Magic could've very easily beat Boston in 6 if we didn't choke away games 4 and 5. Get over yourselves, already.


I never even said that Orlando was a better team. How about you try and argue without using a strawman, for once? Celtics simply had the series in their grasp in game 6, without Garnett, their most important player by far. _This is a fact_. That is all.



> Magic really werent healthy all year either with Pietrus in&out of the lineup early, and Meer out in the 2nd half. We still had the best record in the league in mid-late January right before Meer went down and when KG was still healthy. Lee didnt even play the 1st two games. You simply have no basis to assume a full Celtics squad would _stomp_ a full Magic squad, outside of your own opinion.


The Alston trade was a pretty good band-aid for Nelson's absence, ay sport?


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

Rasheed is probably a top 5 shot blocker imo, he may be the best post defender in the league, after a year along the Boston coaches and Garnett, i'd take him on the defensive end over Tim Duncan, if Garnett can motivate Rasheed to play tough and hard in the post, it's over ssfor the Magic if they meet

Magic are almost as big choke artists as the Mavericks, they will continue their habits, as long as Rashard is their starting PF i would not be worried especially if my team was a defensive oriented team like the Celtics, Carter is a bit daunting though, shosuld be interesting how he improves the Magic, what the Magic really need is some defensive toughness

right now, we can only speculate so far but if i had to bet, i'd take the Celtics in a 6 games series over the Magic


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

OT, Lakers fans are far worse than Celtics fans IMO... Most wish they were a lil' white girl in Colorado the way they'll talk up Kobe. Celtics fan's I've met in person generally have a better grasp of team history than Lakers fans I've met. Leading me to believe most of them are just riding the bandwagon in the 1st place. I actually respect both fan bases on the boards but in person Laker fans tend to be the kids who were Dallas Cowboys fans in the 90s, Patriot fans in the 2000s and etc... 

Back on subject, all this back and forth is kind of funny since both sides are exaggerating their points as bad as I usually do showing their bias. I know it's cliche, but it's going to come down to how's healthy come March, April and May. If the Celtics are healthy, their combined experience of their team easily makes them a favorite. 

Just as the combined athletic ability, offensive firepower and the one of the most dominate bigs of our time makes the Magic just as much of a favorite. Or like Lebron James automatcially makes the Cavs just as dangerous as anyone else mentioned. The injury report will be the most telling of who's going to be representing the East next year. Period.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

chairman5 said:


> Rasheed is probably a top 5 shot blocker imo, he may be the best post defender in the league, after a year along the Boston coaches and Garnett, i'd take him on the defensive end over Tim Duncan, if Garnett can motivate Rasheed to play tough and hard in the post, it's over ssfor the Magic if they meet
> 
> Magic are almost as big choke artists as the Mavericks, they will continue their habits, as long as Rashard is their starting PF i would not be worried especially if my team was a defensive oriented team like the Celtics, Carter is a bit daunting though, shosuld be interesting how he improves the Magic, what the Magic really need is some defensive toughness
> 
> right now, we can only speculate so far but if i had to bet, i'd take the Celtics in a 6 games series over the Magic


The Magic didnt lose to the Lakers because of defense.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Celtics > Cavs > Magic

as it stands right now. 

Celtics vs Cavs would be interesting... I think it is a toss up but I give the edge to Cs because Allen/Pierce/KG/Sheed > Mo Will/Bron/Shaq IMO.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> Celtics > Cavs > Magic
> 
> as it stands right now.
> 
> Celtics vs Cavs would be interesting... I think it is a toss up but I give the edge to Cs because Allen/Pierce/KG/Sheed > Mo Will/Bron/Shaq IMO.


I have to see how the Shaq move improves the Cavs 1st before I put them before the Magic. We saw how it wasn't ideal for the Suns but obviously it was a complete change in philosophy that made that awkward.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

HB said:


> The Magic didnt lose to the Lakers because of defense.


okay that's true, but if they could play some decent defense, they would have had a much better chance

their offense is the most uncontainable but only without a star post defender (Garnett, Perk, Sheed), their wing positions are undersized except Pietrus, and i can see Rashard being exploited on most possessions


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> I never even said that Orlando was a better team. How about you try and argue without using a strawman, for once? Celtics simply had the series in their grasp in game 6, without Garnett, their most important player by far. _This is a fact_. That is all.


Did they win game 6? Did they win the series?? I dont think so. Now please, stfu. That is all.



> The Alston trade was a pretty good band-aid for Nelson's absence, ay sport?


Sure, so what? That dont mean Alston is better than Jameer. Hell, Gortat is a nice little band-aid for Dwight's absence. But i'll still take Dwight everytime. Same with Jameer.



stevemc said:


> OT, Lakers fans are far worse than Celtics fans IMO


As a fan who interacted with both this postseason, I strongly disagree.



Dee-Zy said:


> Celtics > Cavs > Magic
> 
> as it stands right now.


What else is new. We heard last year how the east is all about Boston and Cleveland. Orlando is just a gimmick pretender with no chance. Nothing new here. At least we are finally getting respect as a consensus top 3 team in the east though. Before last season, we couldn't even get that much. It was was supposed to be Philly, Detroit, and some even had Toronto ahead of us. We're making progress. :clap:


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

LMAO at the faux NBA analysts and their ridiculous predictions, Toronto and Philly over the Magic....  just coming off a 50+ win season in '08, sigh i wish i could take their jobs, but Detroit, absolutely if the core was kept in shape

anyways, let's go back defending/bashing one another and dont be shy to include Sheed in the discussion =D


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Strongly disagree.


I'm sure it depends on individual experiences and where you're located. Here in Texas it's pretty much a given, Laker fans are just bandwagoners with no knowledge of the game pre-Shaq in LA. Boston fans will at least bring up the glory days of Bird and co.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I def did not believe that Magic were a contendor last year but then again, nobody did either except for Magic fans.

The differene this year is that Magic are without a doubt in the top echelon of the league with Lakers, Spurs, Cavs, Boston and maybe Nuggets.

These teams are in a league of their own.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Did they win game 6? Did they win the series?? I dont think so. Now please, stfu. That is all.


Oh. Okay. Logic, though, would dictate that if the Celtics had the holy Magic on the ropes in game 6 without their best player, that the odds in their favor this season if their players are healthy. Think, if you are capable, about each team's injured players last postseason, the players that were replacing them, and the difference between each pair of players. Glen Davis to Kevin Garnett? The Celtics will be getting Garnett back, and upgrading from essentially _nothing_. They had no legitamite replacement for Garnett last postseason. Garnett is by far the most important player on their team.

Now, let's look at your team. Hedo Turkoglu to Vince Carter? Granted, this isn't an injury situation, its matter of one player leaving through FA and acquiring another through trade. But this isn't even in the same universe as junk ---> Garnett. Turkoglu's a pretty good player in his own right. Carter's a very good player. But inferior to the likes of Paul Pierce (o noez, tat muzt maek me a h0mer!!). Turkoglu's also a superior playmaker to Carter. I think anyone with an ounce of intelligence will have gotten my point by now. As for the other one I had in mind, Alston to Nelson, Alston performed fairly well in the playoffs. Just because the Magic are getting their starting point guard back from injury and traded for Vince Carter doesn't mean their net talent has skyrocketed, like you want to believe.

That clarify it enough? Or will your stubborn *** just continue to plug your ears and go 'lalalalalalala can't hear you lalalalalala go magic' at the thought of any demeaning evidence against your precious team? Clown.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

interesting.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

I kind of like it like this. Its fun being the underdog. Especially when we're probably going to end up beating Boston and the Cavs anyway. Hell, Toronto is probably better than Orlando after signing Hedo.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Oh. Okay. Logic, though, would dictate that if the Celtics had the holy Magic on the ropes in game 6 without their best player, that the odds in their favor this season if their players are healthy. Think, if you are capable, about each team's injured players last postseason, the players that were replacing them, and the difference between each pair of players. Glen Davis to Kevin Garnett? The Celtics will be getting Garnett back, and upgrading from essentially _nothing_. They had no legitamite replacement for Garnett last postseason. Garnett is by far the most important player on their team.
> 
> Now, let's look at your team. Hedo Turkoglu to Vince Carter? Granted, this isn't an injury situation, its matter of one player leaving through FA and acquiring another through trade. But this isn't even in the same universe as junk ---> Garnett. Turkoglu's a pretty good player in his own right. Carter's a very good player. But inferior to the likes of Paul Pierce (o noez, tat muzt maek me a h0mer!!). Turkoglu's also a superior playmaker to Carter. I think anyone with an ounce of intelligence will have gotten my point by now. As for the other one I had in mind, Alston to Nelson, Alston performed fairly well in the playoffs. Just because the Magic are getting their starting point guard back from injury and traded for Vince Carter doesn't mean their net talent has skyrocketed, like you want to believe.
> 
> That clarify it enough? Or will your stubborn *** just continue to plug your ears and go 'lalalalalalala can't hear you lalalalalala go magic' at the thought of any demeaning evidence against your precious team? Clown.


My stubborn ass? You cant be serious?? My team won, remember?? You simply just cannot come to grips with the thought of another team being better than yours. Go back and check, I gave the C's alot of props before that series started. Im not dismissing them as an inferior team like some did/still do to the Magic. It's you that likes to ignore the fact that Orlando could've just as easily won that series in 6 games as we could've lost it in 6 games. This isnt even me factoring in that Courtney Lee missed the 1st two games, and JJ redick started the entire series(I dont think he's ever started in his career before playoffs). And the guy you dismiss and want to replace, Big Baby, is the same guy who put up 16 & 6 for the series and actually won you a game in game 4. Not a bad band-aid in KG's absence, _ay sport_? After all, the guy wasn't exactly bumming it up out there....

I understand I cant reason with a Boston fan. The Sheed pickup has only taken you to another level of annoyance tho. Im just in shock at your behavior right now.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

Blue Magic said:


> My stubborn ass? You cant be serious?? My team won, remember?? You simply just cannot come to grips with the thought of another team being better than yours. Go back and check, I gave the C's alot of props before that series started. Im not dismissing them as an inferior team like some did/still do to the Magic. It's you that likes to ignore the fact that Orlando could've just as easily won that series in 6 games as we could've lost it in 6 games. This isnt even me factoring in that Courtney Lee missed the 1st two games, and JJ redick started the entire series. And the guy you dismiss and want to replace, Big Baby, is the same guy who put up 16 & 6 for the series and actually won you a game in game 4. Not a bad band-aid in KG's absence, _ay sport_? After all, the guy wasn't exactly bumming it up out there....
> 
> *I understand I cant reason with a Boston fan. The Sheed pickup has only taken you to another level of annoyance tho. Im just in shock at your behavior right now*.


Agreed. Are you Bill Simmons in disguise?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> As a fan who interacted with both this postseason, I strongly disagree.


We Boston fans only had a problem with the retarded Magic fans who insisted that a healthy Garnett would have made no difference whatsoever, and anyway Jameer Nelson was just as good so it was even. In other words, we had a problem with the morons.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Dee-Zy said:


> Magic are without a doubt in the top echelon of the league with Lakers, Spurs, Cavs, Boston and maybe Nuggets.


Portland could have entered that echelon if they'd signed Turkeyglue, and plugged the hole at the 3. Pity that Pritchard still can't overcome his Paxsonilepsy. That team might end up wasted by his fear of trading kids. But seeing a title field that wide open would have made for an awesome season.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> ...seeing a title field that wide open would have made for an awesome season.


Amen. Might as well drop the Kings, Grizz, Thunder and Bobcats out of the league and let the players be drafted by the have nots of the league.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

ehmunro said:


> We Boston fans only had a problem with the retarded Magic fans who insisted that a healthy Garnett would have made no difference whatsoever, and anyway Jameer Nelson was just as good so it was even. In other words, we had a problem with the morons.


Yeah, whatever. Like I say, in the reg. season, Boston's record was no better than Orlando's before Jameer and KG went down. The head-to-head over last two seasons is 4-4. Boston would not _stomp_ Orlando in a 7 game series if both teams were healthy. Prove me wrong man. Prove this moron wrong! 

(Oh, and when I compared KG and Meer it was never about talent for talent as I stated numerous times. It was always about the impact of their floor leadership and their heart. Both guys are emotional leaders for their teams. Both teams are definitely better with those guys leading on the court. Boston fans make excuses for KG, and completely ignore who the other teams missing. They just want to plug in KG, and expect Orlando to be no better if we had then added Jameer. All I did was bring up the point that both teams would be better with both guys. Like I say, you cant reason with a Boston fan though... Nobody is greater than them)


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Boston not having KG is more like Orlando not having Dwight Howard.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Did they win game 6? Did they win the series?? I dont think so. Now please, stfu. That is all.


Wow, nobody said a KG-less Celtics was better than a Nelson-less Magic. We were saying that they were almost dead even- considering the series was back and forth, the Celtics almost took the series in 6, but eventually the series went to a deciding 7. And since they were nearly dead even, and since KG>>>>>>>>Jameer Nelson, if these teams were healthy (like we're assuming for next season), the Celtics would stomp the Magic. Not a hard concept to grasp, but it doesn't surprise me that you let it fly past you. I understand you have a difficulty with reading comprehension.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I was going to say this in the Hedo to Portland thread, but that team isn't that much better than the Thunder talent wise.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> I was going to say this in the Hedo to Portland thread, but that team isn't that much better than the Thunder talent wise.


Well, the Blazers do have a franchise wing, a damned good PF and some pretty good post defense. They have enough guys that can play and handle to plug any holes at the 1. Where they're hurt is that they essentially have that same level of talent at the 3. Even a shot creator at Turkeyglue level protects Roy from getting beaten up all game long, which is all they really need. I'm not digging OKC's interior defense yet, so get back to me when they have anyone at either position above roleplayer level. I like Jeff Green as much as the next guy, but if he's your starting 4 you've got issues. They have a lot of potential, but they're another team that might never fulfill it if their GM doesn't get over his ephebophilia.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Talent-wise they arent that far off. They've got their own franchise type player in KD who is surrounded by a bunch of lottery picks. If they pan out, watch out that team will be dangerous.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> Talent-wise they arent that far off. They've got their own franchise type player in KD who is surrounded by a bunch of lottery picks. If they pan out, watch out that team will be dangerous.


Oh, I'm not doubting that. But at the moment I see their upside as being the Suns earlier this decade. They'll be entertaining and score a lot of points, but ultimately give it all back on the other end. That's the one leg up the Blazers have, between Aldridge, Godzilla, and Oden their defense is going to be rock solid.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

LamarButler said:


> Wow, nobody said a KG-less Celtics was better than a Nelson-less Magic. We were saying that they were almost dead even- considering the series was back and forth, the Celtics almost took the series in 6, but eventually the series went to a deciding 7. And since they were nearly dead even, and since KG>>>>>>>>Jameer Nelson, if these teams were healthy (like we're assuming for next season), the Celtics would stomp the Magic. Not a hard concept to grasp, but it doesn't surprise me that you let it fly past you. I understand you have a difficulty with reading comprehension.


Lol, they would 'stomp' the Magic? They same team that couldn't even 'stomp' the Hawks last season or the Crabs?? Cleveland was supposedly gonna 'stomp' the Magic this year too.... You act like I dont comprehend what your saying just because I dont agree w/ you. I'm not saying that Boston wouldn't beat us w/ KG. Clearly they could beat us.... But we could've very likely beat them as well if we had Jameer... All you're doing tho is making assumptions that have no basis. They're not THAT much better than Orlando that they would ever 'stomp' us in a series right now. Hell, I was one of the only Magic fans saying that Boston could beat us even w/o KG before the series. I gave them their respect, you can go back and check if you wish. It's just idiots who say that 'if you could just pencil KG, Boston would simply 'stomp' everybody' that is hella annoying to listen too. Surely they could win, but to say they 'stomp' everyone is ridiculous homerism. I think it would a be good series if both KG and Meer were healthy. Just like I thought it would still be a good series w/o both. Shocking tho. Boston fans cannot be defeated. AN unbeatable force. 

:starwars:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> when I compared KG and Meer it was never about talent for talent as I stated numerous times. It was always about the impact of their floor leadership and their heart.


Yeah, Jameer Nelson plays the same role that Michael Jordan did on those Bulls teams of the 90s, so even though Jordan was better their impact was exactly the same. Well, I guess that since Jordan only had a poor man's Gerald Wallace as a running mate his impact might have been slightly greater than 'Meer's. I mean, I never saw Pippen play or anything, but I've read about him on internet message boards...


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

ehmunro said:


> Yeah, Jameer Nelson plays the same role that Michael Jordan did on those Bulls teams of the 90s, so even though Jordan was better their impact was exactly the same. Well, I guess that since Jordan only had a poor man's Gerald Wallace as a running mate his impact might have been slightly greater than 'Meer's. I mean, I never saw Pippen play or anything, but I've read about him on internet message boards...


Awesome. :clap:


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> My stubborn ass? You cant be serious?? My team won, remember?? You simply just cannot come to grips with the thought of another team being better than yours. Go back and check, I gave the C's alot of props before that series started. Im not dismissing them as an inferior team like some did/still do to the Magic. It's you that likes to ignore the fact that Orlando could've just as easily won that series in 6 games as we could've lost it in 6 games. This isnt even me factoring in that Courtney Lee missed the 1st two games, and JJ redick started the entire series(I dont think he's ever started in his career before playoffs). And the guy you dismiss and want to replace, Big Baby, is the same guy who put up 16 & 6 for the series and actually won you a game in game 4. Not a bad band-aid in KG's absence, _ay sport_? After all, the guy wasn't exactly bumming it up out there....


You're still babbling about nothing and refusing to acknowledge points that hurt your 'argument'. And playing up your team's injuries to make them seem like they're in the same universe, importance-wise, as Garnett. This is incredible. And entertaining, in the same way as watching a mentally retarded person try to solve the quadratic formula. 



> I understand I cant reason with a Boston fan. The Sheed pickup has only taken you to another level of annoyance tho. Im just in shock at your behavior right now.


To be able to 'reason' with someone, you first must be able to know and understand a) what *they* are talking about, and b) what *you yourself* are talking about. You are failing horribly at both, especially the latter.


GEAUX MAGIKS!!!!111


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

not even worth it


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> You're still babbling about nothing and refusing to acknowledge points that hurt your 'argument'. And playing up your team's injuries to make them seem like they're in the same universe, importance-wise, as Garnett. This is incredible. And entertaining, in the same way as watching a mentally retarded person try to solve the quadratic formula.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dJaaHZgnVbwA/520x.jpg

Get used to the look on their faces. It'll be there as long as DH12 is in Orlando.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Duck34234 said:


> http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dJaaHZgnVbwA/520x.jpg
> 
> Get used to the look on their faces. It'll be there as long as DH12 is in Orlando.


OOOooooOOOooooooo!!!


What are you, 8?


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I thought the magic guys would stop after the playoffs.. guess not, ignore it JE this is about Sheed lol

who will be introduced Thursday by the way


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> You're still babbling about nothing and refusing to acknowledge points that hurt your 'argument'. And playing up your team's injuries to make them seem like they're in the same universe, importance-wise, as Garnett. This is incredible. And entertaining, in the same way as watching a mentally retarded person try to solve the quadratic formula.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're right. I have absolutely no idea what you're talking... Please, help us all out and just stop speaking so much... Get back to me when you're over your power trip. K thx bye


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> You're right. I have absolutely no idea what you're talking... Please, help us all out and just stop speaking so much... Get back to me when you're over your power trip. K thx bye


Yes, I will accept your admission of defeat any way you want to present it.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

props to celtics_champs from realgm for that

Cant wait for the season to start


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

He's wearing 7? Isn't 30 open?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Avalanche said:


> I thought the magic guys would stop after the playoffs.. guess not, ignore it JE this is about Sheed lol
> 
> who will be introduced Thursday by the way


Lol, what exactly was little Jacob supposed to ignore? I think it's kind of hard to ignore an issue that HE brought up in the 1st place... Dont even try to put this one on Magic fans. This one is on your boy.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Celtics still aren't scary... Bulls will take em this time.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Lol, what exactly was little Jacob supposed to ignore? I think it's kind of hard to ignore an issue that HE brought up in the 1st place... Dont even try to put this one on Magic fans. This one is on your boy.


Doesn't change the fact that your argument and posts were unbelievably idiotic and lowered all readers' I.Q.'s by 10 points.


LOL @ 'little Jacob'. Desperation mode, huh? If only that was my actual name.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

someone said:


> Celtics still aren't scary... Bulls will take em this time.


KUZ THERE TEH UNDURDOGGZ!!!!!


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> KUZ THERE TEH UNDURDOGGZ!!!!!


No, because the Celtics are getting too old.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

someone said:


> No, because the Celtics are getting too old.


I was joking. Read the whole thread.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Lol, what exactly was little Jacob supposed to ignore? I think it's kind of hard to ignore an issue that HE brought up in the 1st place... Dont even try to put this one on Magic fans. This one is on your boy.


was just trying to keep this somewhat on topic instead of being another, whos injury meant more, which team is better... blah blah blah

then the bulls fan turned up :tumbleweed:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

someone said:


> Celtics still aren't scary... Bulls will take em this time.


Unfortunately the only place they're "taking them" is out to Duggan Park to celebrate the Celtics' victory.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

someone said:


> Celtics still aren't scary... Bulls will take em this time.


you guys just lost your clutch scorer, lil Ben


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Sheed will always be one of my favorite players but, in all honesty, at this point in his career there is almost no difference between him and a 37 year old Cliff Robinson.

I know he didn't give a **** most of last season, but he was not moving well even when he was trying.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Avalanche said:


> was just trying to keep this somewhat on topic instead of being another, whos injury meant more, which team is better... blah blah blah
> 
> then the bulls fan turned up :tumbleweed:


I agree with you. The only people who like to bring up this issue over & over again are the Boston fans tho. It has always been the Boston fans complaining about how they 'stomp' everybody if they have KG. Your boy Jacob got mad cuz an Orlando fan called his team old and fragile, and didn't bow down to the C's and their roster. Even though I will say that C's are threat to be reckoned right now with RaSheed, Hobojoe had valid points even if some of them were reaching. I know your a KG supporter and so am I. But Im also a Magic fan, and you need to keep your boy in check. Boston fans are always the ones talking too much and bringin this issue up over and over again. Tell your boy to accept his L, and move forward.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> You're still babbling about nothing and refusing to acknowledge points that hurt your 'argument'. And playing up your team's injuries to make them seem like they're in the same universe, importance-wise, as Garnett. This is incredible. And entertaining, in the same way as watching a mentally retarded person try to solve the quadratic formula.
> 
> _To be able to 'reason' with someone, you first must be able to know and understand a) what *they* are talking about, and b) what *you yourself* are talking about. You are failing horribly at both, especially the latter._


Amen. The worst part of his posts isn't his basketball opinions, but his failure to realize the point others are trying to make to him, and how what he's saying pertains to the argument.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

^No, I understand everything he's said perfectly. Ive heard all of your arguments probably over a hundred times by now. I realize the stupid point, I just disagree with it and think it's flawed. Superiority complex is like a reflex in Boston fans though. This is evident in how they all team up and feel the need to pat each other on the back, even when they are the instigators or in the wrong. And if you have a different opinion than any of them, you clearly have a complete lack of reading comprehension.... Absolutely ridiculous.

You guys should read up on 'denying the antecedent'. It is well documented as a fundamentally flawed train of logic. A non-sequitur fallacy. Maybe if your arguments had anything behind it other than a personal opinion, I would look at them differently.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

im still confused about the jacob vs magicians arguments

KG is worth more than Nelson on respective teams, i get that, anything else?

from now on i say we should make arguments in point form, paragraphs are killer


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

They say if both Orlando and Boston were fully healthy, Boston would dominate Orlando

But both were not healthy, therefore the C's lost.

They say that since the series went to 7 games, the difference between Meer and KG alone means that Boston would have dismantled Orlando if both would have both been at full strength.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> ^No, I understand everything he's said perfectly. Ive heard all of your arguments probably over a hundred times by now. I realize the stupid point, I just disagree with it and think it's flawed. Superiority complex is like a reflex in Boston fans though. This is evident in how they all team up and feel the need to pat each other on the back, even when they are the instigators or in the wrong. *And if you have a different opinion than any of them, you clearly have a complete lack of reading comprehension.... Absolutely ridiculous.*


You have a lack of reading comprehension cause you do, not cause I'm so upset that you're not agreeing with me.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> Yeah, Jameer Nelson plays the same role that Michael Jordan did on those Bulls teams of the 90s, so even though Jordan was better their impact was exactly the same. Well, I guess that since Jordan only had a poor man's Gerald Wallace as a running mate his impact might have been slightly greater than 'Meer's. I mean, I never saw Pippen play or anything, but I've read about him on internet message boards...


I'm not gonna lie I laughed out loud reading this post. Well played.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

P.S. the debate is now over, Magic > Celtics


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Jump Blue Magic, just jump.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

'Sheed has always been terribly over-rated. Yes, he is 6'11". Yes, he is rangy. Yes, he feels comfortable spotting up behind the 3. So what? Manute Bol was a center who spotted up for the 3 also. Laimbeer had range out to the top of the key. Being tall and being able to shoot a jump shot does not make one a great player. Seriously, is a 33% 3 point FG percentage anything to write home about?

Overall, he's been a good scorer with above average range for a big. But he's not a very good rebounder, despite his height and wingspan. 

He has been a terrific complementary player on talented teams, but his role will diminish significantly now that he's older. 

Plus, I'm sick of his crybaby antics. He's a solid (but short term) acquisition at the right price, nothing more.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

^^

De-fense


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> 'Sheed has always been terribly over-rated. Yes, he is 6'11". Yes, he is rangy. Yes, he feels comfortable spotting up behind the 3. So what? Manute Bol was a center who spotted up for the 3 also. Laimbeer had range out to the top of the key. Being tall and being able to shoot a jump shot does not make one a great player. Seriously, is a 33% 3 point FG percentage anything to write home about?
> 
> Overall, he's been a good scorer with above average range for a big. But he's not a very good rebounder, despite his height and wingspan.
> 
> ...


His defense and ability to stretch the D and cause mismatches is invaluable. I think Sheed still has plenty left in the tank, he just needs motivation.

You say he's a terrific complementary player and that's exactly what he will be for the Celtics.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> I agree with you. The only people who like to bring up this issue over & over again are the Boston fans tho. It has always been the Boston fans complaining about how they 'stomp' everybody if they have KG. Your boy Jacob got mad cuz an Orlando fan called his team old and fragile, and didn't bow down to the C's and their roster. Even though I will say that C's are threat to be reckoned right now with RaSheed, Hobojoe had valid points even if some of them were reaching. I know your a KG supporter and so am I. But Im also a Magic fan, and you need to keep your boy in check. Boston fans are always the ones talking too much and bringin this issue up over and over again. Tell your boy to accept his L, and move forward.


Accept my L? You cowered away from the debate, dip****. You spat out a 'well ur on a p0wer tripp!!' line as an excuse to end an argument that I was destroying you in every single way imaginable. But even though you cowered out, you're still embarrassing yourself by playing the contempt and talking with ****** swag as if it makes you cool (you actually look even more retarded doing that, I'd stop).


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> ^No, I understand everything he's said perfectly. Ive heard all of your arguments probably over a hundred times by now. I realize the stupid point, I just disagree with it and think it's flawed. Superiority complex is like a reflex in Boston fans though. This is evident in how they all team up and feel the need to pat each other on the back, even when they are the instigators or in the wrong. And if you have a different opinion than any of them, you clearly have a complete lack of reading comprehension.... Absolutely ridiculous.


Or maybe arguing with you is like arguing with a stump, since every valid point we make is countered by you first with a bug-eyed, 'does not compute' type look, followed by simply dodging the issue. You are the mod who told me to stfu (firing the first shot), and now you're crying about the ensuing embarrassment you suffered. ****ing hypocrite you are.



> You guys should read up on 'denying the antecedent'. It is well documented as a fundamentally flawed train of logic. A non-sequitur fallacy. Maybe if your arguments had anything behind it other than a personal opinion, I would look at them differently.


So the Celtics weren't on the verge of ending the Magic in 6 games, without Garnett? That's a fact, chief, not an opinion. Google searching logical fallacies you vaguely remember from the English class that guided you on your way to your gas pumping degree doesn't help your image.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Or maybe arguing with you is like arguing with a stump, since every valid point we make is countered by you first with a bug-eyed, 'does not compute' type look, followed by simply dodging the issue. You are the mod who told me to stfu (firing the first shot), and now you're crying about the ensuing embarrassment you suffered. ****ing hypocrite you are.
> 
> 
> 
> So the Celtics weren't on the verge of ending the Magic in 6 games, without Garnett? That's a fact, chief, not an opinion. Google searching logical fallacies you vaguely remember from the English class that guided you on your way to your gas pumping degree doesn't help your image.


What is your problem?? Did you not actually watch *how* Boston won certain games and who won certain games for you?? Eddie House is your Hero in game 2? I dont think Orlando could've choked any harder in games 4 and 5..... Miracle shot by Big Baby of all people to win game 4?? We lose a 14 pt lead in 3mins in game 5??? These are thing that I could call a fluke. Games that Orlando wins more times than not, or games where absolutely everything would've be different if everyone was fielding a full roster... You cant just completely change the scenerio and say, 'if we pencil in KG, then the Celtics therefore win in 6' just because they could've won it like that w/o him. I could say if you plug in Jameer, the Magic dont choke away games 4 & 5.... I could say if you plug in our other starter Lee for games 1 and 2, he locks down House who carried you guys in game 2, and then the Magic could've feasibly won it in 4... See how stupid that sounds? It's just impossible argue this subject, because there are soo many flaws in your logic. There's just way too many variables. You logic says that since the series went to 7 games, adding KG therefore = a Boston domination, simply because KG's > than any individual piece Orlando was missing... That logic is fundamentally flawed in soo many ways, but yet you and your buddies are marching around like i'm im idiot. I understand your stupid opinion, I just disagree with the fundamental elements of the logic. I dont understand why can't you just accept the L, and move forward? It's been nearly 2 months now. Superiority complex must just be too much to cope with. I understand, Jacob.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> What is your problem?? Did you not actually watch *how* Boston won certain games and who won certain games for you?? Eddie House is your Hero in game 2? I dont think Orlando could've choked any harder in games 4 and 5..... Miracle shot by Big Baby of all people to win game 4?? We lose a 14 pt lead in 3mins in game 5??? These are thing that I could call a fluke. Games that Orlando wins more times than not, or games where absolutely everything would've be different if everyone was fielding a full roster... You cant just completely change the scenerio and say, 'if we pencil in KG, then the Celtics therefore win in 6' just because they could've won it like that w/o him. I could say if you plug in Jameer, the Magic dont choke away games 4 & 5.... I could say if you plug in our other starter Lee for games 1 and 2, he locks down House who carried you guys in game 2, and then the Magic could've feasibly won it in 4... See how stupid that sounds? It's just impossible argue this subject, because there are soo many flaws in your logic. There's just way too many variables. You logic says that since the series went to 7 games, adding KG therefore = a Boston domination, simply because KG's > than any individual piece Orlando was missing... That logic is fundamentally flawed in soo many ways, but yet you and your buddies are marching around like i'm im idiot. I understand your stupid opinion, I just disagree with the fundamental elements of the logic. I dont understand why can't you just accept the L, and move forward? It's been nearly 2 months now. Superiority complex must just be too much to cope with. I understand, Jacob.


So a healthy KG to you makes no difference in that series? That argument sounds as lame as the one you're portraying Jacoby to have.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Cap said:


> Jump Blue Magic, just jump.


:laugh:

Wow, cant believe soo many people are backing up the Celtic's homer. This guy is soo excited about ONE off-season move, that it's ridiculous. Has nobody else noticed this guys obnoxious behavior recently??


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

stevemc said:


> So a healthy KG to you makes no difference in that series? That argument sounds as lame as the one you're portraying Jacoby to have.


That's not what I said at all. Of course KG makes a difference, but it would a completely different series. You cant just say that since the series went to 7 games w/o him, the Celtics would therefore beat Orlando with him. It's that logic that im saying doesnt work. One large reason is because the people who were stepping up wouldn't be getting the same minutes(and this goes for both teams). Maybe if Orlando was fully healthy, it would be more applicable, but Orlando also had key players miss games as well. Go back and read what I said. I've never said KG doesnt make a difference. Never.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> That's not what I said at all. Of course KG makes a difference, but it would a completely different series. You cant just say that since the series went to 7 games w/o him, the Celtics would therefore beat Orlando with him. It's that logic that im saying doesnt work. One large reason is because the people who were stepping up wouldn't be getting the same minutes(and this goes for both teams). Maybe if Orlando was fully healthy, it would be more applicable, but Orlando also had key players miss games as well. Go back and read what I said. I've never said KG doesnt make a difference. Never.


You didn't but it's the conclusion one might make after all this back and forth. Same logic applies to Nelson, can't say I could see him getting hot like Alston did in several key points in the series from behind the arc. 

Honestly, 9 times out of 10 people are going to say a healthy KG would have put the Celtics over the Magic. It's a safe assumption to make, not a superiority complex.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> What is your problem?? Did you not actually watch *how* Boston won certain games and who won certain games for you??


Yes I did.



> Eddie House is your Hero in game 2?


A bench player came through when it mattered. Not the first its happened, corky.



> I dont think Orlando could've choked any harder in games 4 and 5..... Miracle shot by Big Baby of all people to win game 4??


Who cares if he was the one to hit the shot? Does that make the Celtics win invalid? If Pierce had made that shot, would you view this differently?



> We lose a 14 pt lead in 3mins in game 5??? These are thing that I could call a fluke.


You gag away one game in epic fashion, yes you could consider that a fluke. If you gag away two games, and nearly choke a 30 point lead in game 1, in a seven game span, then I'd say its something other than a fluke - your team is soft and complacent.



> Games that Orlando wins more times than not, or games where absolutely everything would've be different if everyone was fielding a full roster...


Babble.



> You cant just completely change the scenerio and say, 'if we pencil in KG, then the Celtics therefore win in 6' just because they could've won it like that w/o him.


It probably wouldn't have gone that long.



> I could say if you plug in Jameer, the Magic dont choke away games 4 & 5.... I could say if you plug in our other starter Lee for games 1 and 2, he locks down House who carried you guys in game 2, and then the Magic could've feasibly won it in 4... See how stupid that sounds?


Yeah, that sounds unbelievably stupid, considering that I never suggested that certain in-game scenarios in that series would be altered. Hows about actually knowing what argument you're trying to smear?

Its pretty basic. The Celtics were without their most important player when they had Orlando on the ropes in game 6. They were closing in on a series win. Next season, the Celtics will be getting Garnett back and upgrading from 6-7 oil tank with a decent shooting touch to... KG. The Magic have acquired Vince Carter and will be getting Nelson back, but they've lost Turkoglu, Rafer Alston, and Courtney Lee. The concept here, class, is net gain. The Celtics' acquisitions/injury recoveries far exceed Orlando's.

Maybe I'll try and put it in simpler, more familiar terms for you. You have 10 oreo cookies. Someone comes up to you and offers to trade you 10 chips-ahoy cookies, your favorite, for those 10 oreos. Sure, the chips-ahoy may taste a lot better, but is there a _net gain_? No.



> It's just impossible argue this subject, because there are soo many flaws in your logic. There's just way too many variables.


If anything, there's just way too many cheap lulz to be gained from reading your posts in this thread.



> You logic says that since the series went to 7 games, adding KG therefore = a Boston domination, simply because KG's > than any individual piece Orlando was missing...


*Common* logic, not *my* logic.



> That logic is fundamentally flawed in soo many ways, but yet you and your buddies are marching around like i'm im idiot. I understand your stupid opinion, I just disagree with the fundamental elements of the logic. I dont understand why can't you just accept the L, and move forward? It's been nearly 2 months now. Superiority complex must just be too much to cope with. I understand, Jacob.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Wow, cant believe soo many people are backing up the Celtic's homer. This guy is soo excited about ONE off-season move, that it's ridiculous. Has nobody else noticed this guys obnoxious behavior recently??


Oh my, you're in hysterics.


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

stevemc said:


> You didn't but it's the conclusion one might make after all this back and forth. Same logic applies to Nelson, can't say I could see him getting hot like Alston did in several key points in the series from behind the arc.
> 
> Honestly, 9 times out of 10 people are going to say a healthy KG would have put the Celtics over the Magic. It's a safe assumption to make, not a superiority complex.


Are you kidding me? Alston is the most inconsistent shooter on the team. Jameer was one of the most, if not, the most consistent. You cant see him matching Alston's shooting??? :rotf: :rotf:

Superiority complex, comes in not from his opinion, but from how cocky he is in feeling the right/need to trash any team he feels is inferior(as if his team just won something) 



Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> A bench player came through when it mattered. Not the first its happened, corky.


True. And then we all saw how Lee shut his *** down as soon as he came back in the rotation.



> Who cares if he was the one to hit the shot? Does that make the Celtics win invalid? If Pierce had made that shot, would you view this differently?


No, but does KG make that shot? Do the Magic even defend that play the same way if KG is on the court?? You cant just assume a fully healthy Orlando is the same exact team that loses in the same exact ways, while Boston gets better. 



> You gag away one game in epic fashion, yes you could consider that a fluke. If you gag away two games, and nearly choke a 30 point lead in game 1, in a seven game span, then I'd say its something other than a fluke - your team is soft and complacent.


Alright, and you think we gag away all those games with Jameer healthy? You assume we were the same exact team with Jameer healthy?? No. This is what i'm saying. Orlando was a much more consistent team with Jameer healthy. He is a better floor leader and much more consistent player than Alston, particularly offensively.




> It probably wouldn't have gone that long.


Your opinion.



> Yeah, that sounds unbelievably stupid, considering that I never suggested that certain in-game scenarios in that series would be altered. Hows about actually knowing what argument you're trying to smear?
> 
> Its pretty basic. The Celtics were without their most important player when they had Orlando on the ropes in game 6. They were closing in on a series win. Next season, the Celtics will be getting Garnett back and upgrading from 6-7 oil tank with a decent shooting touch to... KG. The Magic have acquired Vince Carter and will be getting Nelson back, but they've lost Turkoglu, Rafer Alston, and Courtney Lee. The concept here, class, is net gain. The Celtics' acquisitions/injury recoveries far exceed Orlando's.


I know, you never suggested that certain scenarios would be altered... But the thing is, they WOULD be altered! That's why your 'opinion' is not a valid argument here. It's based on heavily assumptions from a series that was played with BOTH teams missing key variables. Mindsets change and so does team philosophy and respect for certain players, with different players on the floor.



> Maybe I'll try and put it in simpler, more familiar terms for you. You have 10 oreo cookies. Someone comes up to you and offers to trade you 10 chips-ahoy cookies, your favorite, for those 10 oreos. Sure, the chips-ahoy may taste a lot better, but is there a _net gain_? No.


Jobs finished?? You seem to think so. When realistically, you have no idea what the final roster will look like next year other than Hedo, Lee, Skip and Battie gone and replace them with VC, Anderson & Meer. You say we're still just as good a team, but we still have the MLE to use, not to mention a player like Dwight being a year better.



> If anything, there's just way too many cheap lulz to be gained from reading your posts in this thread.


LAUGH

Your little power trip has been quite entertaining to follow as well... I was initially giving Boston there props for this move, but reading your numerous demeaning/cocky posts towards others was quite the sight. Freely talking **** to all the teams who you thinks are inferior like your team just won something(That's right, Ive seen you on the Raptors board trashing there moves as well).Your pompous behavior has just been laughable. Vamping up 2 month old debates out of the blue about how your team would 'stomp' everybody after your team made ONE move?? Lol, I think you need to settle down Jacob.



> *Common* logic, not *my* logic.


Common opinion. There is nothing logical about anything you've said.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Are you kidding me? Alston is the most inconsistent shooter on the team. Jameer was one of the most, if not, the most consistent. You cant see him matching Alston's shooting??? :rotf: :rotf:


When Alston is hot, he's hot. Don't deny that. Nelson is more consistent statsitically, therefor the Celtics might have actually game planed for it. Either way still doesn't change the fact the Celtics are better on paper at this point. That's all we get til Fall anyway.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

KG is a top 5-10 player when he's healthy. The Celtics would have been the favorites against the Magic even if the Magic had Jameer Nelson. Glen Big Baby Davis put up some nice numbers but KG gives you all that and a little more offensively and is a MUCH better defensive player. It's not like Celtic fans are saying that Leon Powe would have put them over the top.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

f22egl said:


> KG is a top 5-10 player when he's healthy. The Celtics would have been the favorites against the Magic even if the Magic had Jameer Nelson. Glen Big Baby Davis put up some nice numbers but KG gives you all that and a little more offensively and is a MUCH better defensive player. It's not like Celtic fans are saying that Leon Powe would have put them over the top.


But Jameer Nelson is a rich man's Tiny Archibald!!! I mean, I never saw Tiny play, but I read about him on internet message boards...


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Are you kidding me? Alston is the most inconsistent shooter on the team. Jameer was one of the most, if not, the most consistent. You cant see him matching Alston's shooting??? :rotf: :rotf:


Alston isn't a scrub. A good player who would start for at least 1/3 of the league, probably more. Nelson is a pretty good to very good point guard. The actual upgrade here isn't substantial.

What is so hard to grasp about this?



> Superiority complex, comes in not from his opinion, but from how cocky he is in feeling the right/need to trash any team he feels is inferior(as if his team just won something)


You take me saying your team isn't as good as another as 'trashing'? Jeez, you're no better than some of the 10 year old Nets fans that posted here back in the day.



> True. And then we all saw how Lee shut his *** down as soon as he came back in the rotation.


Okay.


And Lee's gone now.


This is a completely moot point.



> No, but does KG make that shot? Do the Magic even defend that play the same way if KG is on the court?? You cant just assume a fully healthy Orlando is the same exact team that loses in the same exact ways, while Boston gets better.


Or better, if KG's playing, does that situation even _transpire_? Not that it matters for the actual argument, but since you're going to wiggle your thumb up your *** while posting tangential what-if bull****, I might as well counter it for my own entertainment.



> Alright, and you think we gag away all those games with Jameer healthy? You assume we were the same exact team with Jameer healthy?? No. This is what i'm saying. Orlando was a much more consistent team with Jameer healthy. He is a better floor leader and much more consistent player than Alston, particularly offensively.


Still not the point, but I'll bite.

See above.



> I know, you never suggested that certain scenarios would be altered... But the thing is, they WOULD be altered!


And the majority of them wouldn't have even taken place.



> That's why your 'opinion' is not a valid argument here. It's based on heavily assumptions from a series that was played with BOTH teams missing key variables. Mindsets change and so does team philosophy and respect for certain players, with different players on the floor.


The Celtics add Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace to the equation. The Magic add Vince Carter and Jameer Nelson, and possibly an MLE player, and subtract Hedo Turkoglu, Courtney Lee, and Rafer Alston. The Celtics finished with the superior regular season record last year even without their most crucial player, and had the Magic on the ropes in the playoffs.


Take off the blue glasses and use logic, if you're even capable of that.



> Jobs finished?? You seem to think so. When realistically, you have no idea what the final roster will look like next year other than Hedo, Lee, Skip and Battie gone and replace them with VC, Anderson & Meer. You say we're still just as good a team, but we still have the MLE to use, not to mention a player like Dwight being a year better.


Oh yeah, let's throw a parade for Brandon Bass, at best.



> LAUGH
> 
> Your little power trip has been quite entertaining to follow as well... I was initially giving Boston there props for this move, but reading your numerous demeaning/cocky posts towards others was quite the sight. Freely talking **** to all the teams who you thinks are inferior like your team just won something(That's right, Ive seen you on the Raptors board trashing there moves as well).Your pompous behavior has just been laughable. Vamping up 2 month old debates out of the blue about how your team would 'stomp' everybody after your team made ONE move?? Lol, I think you need to settle down Jacob.


I can't venture into team forums and share my take on their moves? And _you_ have a position of authority around here? Holy ****.



> Common opinion. There is nothing logical about anything you've said.


Just because it sails (and will continue to sail) a mile above your head doesn't mean it isn't logical.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Blue Magic do you know what a power trip is? You've used that term incorrectly at least a couple times now in this thread.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Alston isn't a scrub. A good player who would start for at least 1/3 of the league, probably more. Nelson is a pretty good to very good point guard. The actual upgrade here isn't substantial.
> 
> What is so hard to grasp about this?


Orlando won like 82% of our games with Jameer starting. We won 59% w/o him starting. You dont see a difference there?? Well i'll tell you, there was a drastic difference in consistency. Skip is adequate, but Jameer was a much more reliable player on a nightly basis and his skills suited the offense better.... Alston had like one good game in every series, and people act like we would fail w/o his presence.... zomg, Skip is gone! 

It's not about talent for talent. It's about how he suits the system.



> You take me saying your team isn't as good as another as 'trashing'? Jeez, you're no better than some of the 10 year old Nets fans that posted here back in the day.


Like I said, that opinion was not necessarily based on your opinion of Orlando but on how you had been carrying yourself around the entire board. I have no reason be offended by you trashing Orlando. Contrary to what you and your pals may say, you guys really are no better than us.




> *Or better, if KG's playing, does that situation even transpire?* Not that it matters for the actual argument, but since you're going to wiggle your thumb up your *** while posting tangential what-if bull****, I might as well counter it for my own entertainment.


Of course it doesn't, which is why the reasoning you began this entire argument on is extremely flawed. Everything would be completely different like ive been saying. You use the fact that the series went to seven games, as the primary reason why KG would've put Boston over the top. You say that you 'had us on the ropes in 6', therefore you would have stomped us with KG.... You seem not to realize that Orlando could have just as easily beat you guys in 5... Maybe you would've 'stomped us with KG', but there would've been a completely different make-up to the series if those guys were playing. Having us 'on the ropes in 6' means absolutely nothing in respect to if both Jameer and KG would have been participating but you feel the need to keep bringing it up.



> Still not the point, but I'll bite.
> 
> See above.


See above.



> And the majority of them wouldn't have even taken place.


Exactly. There would have been a completely different complexion to the series which is why having us 'on the ropes in game 6' is completely irrelevant and moot to the opinion your trying to push. Strangely, having us 'on the ropes in 6' seems to be the fundamental reasoning behind why you believe what you believe, yet you admit the series would have been completely different if both sides were healthy..... The fact is, anything that happened in that series is moot when discussing the impact of KG and Jameer would've had... Your looking at it mano a mano, but that's not necessarily how team sports work. 



> The Celtics add Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace to the equation. The Magic add Vince Carter and Jameer Nelson, and possibly an MLE player, and subtract Hedo Turkoglu, Courtney Lee, and Rafer Alston. The Celtics finished with the superior regular season record last year even without their most crucial player, and had the Magic on the ropes in the playoffs.
> 
> 
> Take off the blue glasses and use logic, if you're even capable of that.
> ...


Magic dont need a hero, we already have 4 recent all-stars in the starting lineup. We just need depth. Orlando was tied for the # record in the league before Jameer went down. It was us and LA, and this was before we ever aquired Skip so let's just throw that rental out of the picture cause he was always gonna be expendable. Hedo vs Vince: give me Vince, k thx. Lee vs Meer: I love Lee but its Jameer. Anderson vs Battie: really Anderson can be no worse than Battie. All we need to do is split the MLE on two role players and we'll be no worse than last year assuming we match for Gortat. A combo like Barnes + Bass or Gooden should be more than adequate to go up against any team in the league. 




> I can't venture into team forums and share my take on their moves? And _you_ have a position of authority around here? Holy ****.


You can, but it's just the way you do it. You pretty much go in there and mock their moves and dismiss their future as if your team just won something. It's not like im giving you an infraction, im just saying that it's people like you who give Boston fans their rep.... Like I said, you really have no reason to be cocky about anything right now which is why your behavior has been pretty amusing to watch.



> Just because it sails (and will continue to sail) a mile above your head doesn't mean it isn't logical.


Ok, Jacob. 
:tumbleweed:


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Rasheed's buddy Mcdyess just signed with the Spurs


----------



## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Where's Kurt Thomas now? Is he still with the Spurs?


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> They say if both Orlando and Boston were fully healthy, Boston would dominate Orlando.


Is there any question? A healthy KG and they probably would have repeated as champions. They beat LA as badly last year as LA beat Orlando this year.

Come on man. Brian Scalabrine was playing 25 minutes a game for the C's.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ LA lost in 6 to the Celtics with one blowout, while they beat the Magic in 5 with 2 blowouts including 2 road wins.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

MLKG said:


> Is there any question? A healthy KG and they probably would have repeated as champions. They beat LA as badly last year as LA beat Orlando this year.
> 
> Come on man. Brian Scalabrine was playing 25 minutes a game for the C's.





Cap said:


> ^ LA lost in 6 to the Celtics with one blowout, while they beat the Magic in 5 with 2 blowouts including 2 road wins.


LA didn't have Bynum or a healthy Ariza, and they were playing Pau at Center and starting Odom. Orlando couldve beat LA too if Pau was playing all his minutes @ center as well... Not to mention Boston also had another impact wing in Posey that they let go, and their old core were only a yr older. It was a more stacked Laker team from last year tho.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Orlando won like 82% of our games with Jameer starting. We won 59% w/o him starting. You dont see a difference there?? Well i'll tell you, there was a drastic difference in consistency. Skip is adequate, but Jameer was a much more reliable player on a nightly basis and his skills suited the offense better.... Alston had like one good game in every series, and people act like we would fail w/o his presence.... zomg, Skip is gone!


I never even said they're equal. Alston's a good player, Nelson is very good. This isn't upgrading from nothing to a top 10 player, like the Celtics.



> Like I said, that opinion was not necessarily based on your opinion of Orlando but on how you had been carrying yourself around the entire board. I have no reason be offended by you trashing Orlando. Contrary to what you and your pals may say, you guys really are no better than us.


No, you clearly are offended by me not being all over Orlando's ****. Judging from your constant 'power trip' accusations, your tinfoil hat, your refusal to counter my points and instead create your own strawmen, and your crying about posters who agree with me merely coming to gang up on you.

Sorry EDIT, but the Celtics are way better than Orlando. Gonna call me a homer for that, Orlando fan?



> Of course it doesn't, which is why the reasoning you began this entire argument on is extremely flawed. Everything would be completely different like ive been saying. You use the fact that the series went to seven games, as the primary reason why KG would've put Boston over the top. You say that you 'had us on the ropes in 6', therefore you would have stomped us with KG....


Probably because common sense would dictate so.



> You seem not to realize that Orlando could have just as easily beat you guys in 5... Maybe you would've 'stomped us with KG', but there would've been a completely different make-up to the series if those guys were playing. Having us 'on the ropes in 6' means absolutely nothing in respect to if both Jameer and KG would have been participating but you feel the need to keep bringing it up.


You don't realize that your team is _soft_. That's why they choked, or nearly choked, those games. How does acquiring Carter help that exactly (uh-oh, I just upped someone's blood pressure by about 6,000)?

You know what, just read my past posts about net gain as it pertains to this. I don't feel like repeating myself just because you have the reading comprehension of a toddler.



> Exactly. There would have been a completely different complexion to the series which is why having us 'on the ropes in game 6' is completely irrelevant and moot to the opinion your trying to push.


I think you're misinterpreting 'transpire' as meaning that it would be more beneficial for your team.



> Strangely, having us 'on the ropes in 6' seems to be the fundamental reasoning behind why you believe what you believe, yet you admit the series would have been completely different if both sides were healthy..... The fact is, anything that happened in that series is moot when discussing the impact of KG and Jameer would've had... Your looking at it mano a mano, but that's not necessarily how team sports work.


*THE IMPACT OF ALSTON TO NELSON/TURKOGLU TO CARTER AND JUNK TO GARNETT AREN'T EVEN IN THE SAME GALAXY, EINSTEIN.*



> Magic dont need a hero, we already have 4 recent all-stars in the starting lineup. We just need depth. Orlando was tied for the # record in the league before Jameer went down. It was us and LA, and this was before we ever aquired Skip so let's just throw that rental out of the picture cause he was always gonna be expendable. *Hedo vs Vince: give me Vince, k thx. Lee vs Meer: I love Lee but its Jameer. Anderson vs Battie: really Anderson can be no worse than Battie.* All we need to do is split the MLE on two role players and we'll be no worse than last year assuming we match for Gortat. A combo like Barnes + Bass or Gooden should be more than adequate to go up against any team in the league.


Oh good. But how much is each margin of improvement? All those acquisitions combined don't touch the importance of getting KG back for nothing and signing Rasheed Wallace. EDIT



> Orlando was tied for the # record


What in ****'s name is this supposed to mean? That your record consisted of numbers? Terrific, buddy.



> You can, but it's just the way you do it. You pretty much go in there and mock their moves and dismiss their future as if your team just won something. It's not like im giving you an infraction, im just saying that it's people like you who give Boston fans their rep.... Like I said, you really have no reason to be cocky about anything right now which is why your behavior has been pretty amusing to watch.


Toronto signing Turkoglu was an idiotic move for them. They have no young players that they can hope for internal improvement by keeping. I'm not trashing the team itself (as in, not saying Raptors suck), nor am I trashing the team's fans. There is no issue with that. Go back to your corner.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Is it possible for you to make your point without personal attacks?


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

nvm


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Cavs just picked up A. Parker btw. Guess some teams are done with free agency.


----------



## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

HB said:


> Cavs just picked up A. Parker btw. Guess some teams are done with free agency.


another solid pick up for a contending team


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> I never even said they're equal. Alston's a good player, Nelson is very good. This isn't upgrading from nothing to a top 10 player, like the Celtics.


True. And ive gave my response to this how many times now??



> No, you clearly are offended by me not being all over Orlando's ****. Judging from your constant 'power trip' accusations, your tinfoil hat, your refusal to counter my points and instead create your own strawmen, and your crying about posters who agree with me merely coming to gang up on you.
> 
> Sorry EDIT, but the Celtics are way better than Orlando. Gonna call me a homer for that, Orlando fan?


Im not offended by your actions at all. Just amused. Im just telling you that your trying to pass off your opinion as a logical truth, just like many Boston fans have been doing for months. You need to settle down tho. You've really been going nuts ever since Hobojoe didnt bow down to the Sheed aqcuisition. Ive already gave my input. Boston is gonna be a team to be reckoned with and I said that, but please, understand the difference between an opinion and logical truth. For example, 'Boston stomping Orlando if both teams were healthy' is not logical. It's an opinion.



> Probably because common sense would dictate so.


I was just addressing every little minute detail like you wanted me to... After all, you'd accused me lacking comprehension and dodging your points again if I didnt. But you probably will do that anyway as that seems to be one of your go-to rebuttals...



> You don't realize that your team is _soft_. That's why they choked, or nearly choked, those games. How does acquiring Carter help that exactly (uh-oh, I just upped someone's blood pressure by about 6,000)?


That's why Hedo is out, and we are doing some reconstructing of the roster. The jobs not finished though. 

Carter is a guy who is no doubt a better/more consistent scorer than Hedo. A guy who can rebound and pass just as good as Hedo. A guy who can, but is not limited to, settling for pull-up jumpers on every game winning attempt. He pretty much better than Hedo across the board. We will add some toughness thru FA.



> You know what, just read my past posts about net gain as it pertains to this. I don't feel like repeating myself just because you have the reading comprehension of a toddler.


Right on que with your played out 'reading comprehension' rebuttle. Did I not respond this point already? What did I not comprehend?? What part of 'The jobs not finished' do _you_ not comprehend??? My goodness, you are ridiculous. 



> I think you're misinterpreting 'transpire' as meaning that it would be more beneficial for your team.


Again with the comprehension.... this has to be some kind of record? :laugh:



> *THE IMPACT OF ALSTON TO NELSON/TURKOGLU TO CARTER AND JUNK TO GARNETT AREN'T EVEN IN THE SAME GALAXY, EINSTEIN.*


Sure. That's pretty much been your only response to this issue. Did you not read what I have _been_ saying in response to that though?? In my opinion, you cant just look at it one-v-one, you have to look at the intangibles that each guy brings and how that impacts the team. Over the course of the season, Orlando won like 84% of games w/ Jameer playing compared to 59% w/o. I think Boston won something like 79% of games KG played compared to 72% w/o... Now, im NOT saying that this means Jameer impact is > than KG. But you have to realise how they fit into the system and the teams were playing w/ and w/o said players over the course of the season. These are just the things I look at when I form my opinion. I dont know how else to my opinion across to you. I understand your opinion, I just disagree that your opinion is a 'logic fact'.... 



> Oh good. But how much is each margin of improvement? All those acquisitions combined don't touch the importance of getting KG back for nothing and signing Rasheed Wallace. EDIT
> 
> 
> You dont realize that Orlando was a top 4 team all season. With Jameer healthy, we peaked at #1 even when KG was still in the rotation. Even though Boston matches up well with us, they are not eons better than us. Both of these are good teams that, if 100%, a series could go either way. Adding Sheed is a nice piece. He always gave Dwight problems when he was in Detroit and I said it was a good pickup. What more do you want from me?? But think Boston does not have the east on lock. There are two other teams with core pieces who are both getting better with experience, while Boston core pieces seem to all only be getting older, slower, and more injury prone. It is a legit concern. That is all.
> ...


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Blue Magic said:


> *LA didn't have Bynum* or a healthy Ariza, and they were playing Pau at Center and starting Odom. Orlando couldve beat LA too if Pau was playing all his minutes @ center as well... Not to mention Boston also had another impact wing in Posey that they let go, and their old core were only a yr older. It was a more stacked Laker team from last year tho.


could that be any more irrelevent...seriously


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Marcus13 said:


> could that be any more irrelevent...seriously


What? Bynum allows them to play Pau at the 4 for key stretches. For example, if Perkins would've went down KG likely would had to play center for key stretches. That's fine against bum teams, but against teams with good/physical big men like Orlando or Boston, Pau Gasol is not the ideal guy you want out there playing center for long stretches...


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> What? Bynum allows them to play Pau at the 4 for key stretches. For example, if Perkins would've went down KG likely would had to play center for key stretches. That's fine against bum teams, but against teams with good/physical big men like Orlando or Boston, Pau Gasol is not the ideal guy you want out there playing center for long stretches...


The Lakers were much tougher for the Magic to handle with Odom playing and Bynum sitting on the bench. What did Bynum do in the Finals?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

hobojoe said:


> The Lakers were much tougher for the Magic to handle with Odom playing and Bynum sitting on the bench. What did Bynum do in the Finals?


True, but It has more to do with flexibility imo. Pau can be more aggressive later and stay out of foul trouble early on with Bynum anchoring the D. LA can also manage Odoms fouls better with him coming off the bench as opposed to starting. Pau and Odom are LA's two best bigs, but Bynum gives them alot of flexibility in terms of matchups. If Bynum or Pau gets in quick foul trouble, the other team isnt getting a break with a fresh Odom off the bench. Whereas, if Odom is starting and Bynum isnt on the roster, the quality off the bench is gonna be alot different. That's how I look at it at least...


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> True. And ive gave my response to this how many times now??


Many. But if you don't succeed on the first try, keep plugging. That does seem to be your mantra even when faced with mountains of evidence against you, as well as logic.



> Im not offended by your actions at all. Just amused. Im just telling you that your trying to pass off your opinion as a logical truth, just like many Boston fans have been doing for months. You need to settle down tho. You've really been going nuts ever since Hobojoe didnt bow down to the Sheed aqcuisition. Ive already gave my input.


Ya d00d, you should see me pounding away at my keyboard refuting this vulgar display of analytical ineptitude (that means you're making this too easy for me).



> Boston is gonna be a team to be reckoned with and I said that, but please, understand the difference between an opinion and logical truth. For example, 'Boston stomping Orlando if both teams were healthy' is not logical. It's an opinion.


Its an opinion that is heavily backed and supported by logic and common sense, as opposed to fanboy BS.



> I was just addressing every little minute detail like you wanted me to... After all, you'd accused me lacking comprehension and dodging your points again if I didnt. But you probably will do that anyway as that seems to be one of your go-to rebuttals...


So you finally chose to respond to my actual point, and were made into a fool. Is this telling you anything? Maybe that you're _wrong_? Doubt it, continue with the tinfoil hat routine.



> That's why Hedo is out, and we are doing some reconstructing of the roster. The jobs not finished though.


Replacing softies with egotistical softies is rarely a good move for a team like this.



> Carter is a guy who is no doubt a better/more consistent scorer than Hedo. A guy who can rebound and pass just as good as Hedo. A guy who can, but is not limited to, settling for pull-up jumpers on every game winning attempt. He pretty much better than Hedo across the board. We will add some toughness thru FA.


Fail. None of that has any correlation to toughness whatsoever.



> Right on que with your played out 'reading comprehension' rebuttle. Did I not respond this point already? What did I not comprehend?? What part of 'The jobs not finished' do _you_ not comprehend??? My goodness, you are ridiculous.


Yes, you responded with a bunch of drivel about how upgrading from nothing to a top 10 player is obsolete in comparison to another team upgrading from a near all-star caliber player to an all-star caliber player and a quality point guard to a pretty good one, even though the former team without said top 10 player took you to the limit in the playoffs. Skewed logic, as usual. Not like that will stop you, 'tho'.



> Again with the comprehension.... this has to be some kind of record? :laugh:


Am I wrong? Doesn't look like it, I have sufficient evidence in this post alone, forget the whole thread.



> Sure. That's pretty much been your only response to this issue. Did you not read what I have _been_ saying in response to that though?? In my opinion, you cant just look at it one-v-one, you have to look at the intangibles that each guy brings and how that impacts the team. Over the course of the season, Orlando won like 84% of games w/ Jameer playing compared to 59% w/o. I think Boston won something like 79% of games KG played compared to 72% w/o... Now, im NOT saying that this means Jameer impact is > than KG.


Maybe the idea that the Celtics were still more talented and had better players than Orlando contributes to those numbers. Which is why they took them as far they did in the playoffs. See? It all ties together.



> But you have to realise how they fit into the system and the teams were playing w/ and w/o said players over the course of the season. These are just the things I look at when I form my opinion. I dont know how else to my opinion across to you. I understand your opinion, I just disagree that your opinion is a 'logic fact'....


You're hammering me for skimping/ignoring details, and now you're presenting something that _without_ the inclusion of minute details (such as schedules, opposing team's health situations, fatigue, etc.) looks half-assed, worthless, and obsolete.

But hey, here's your oppurtunity to maybe get a valid point in, if you're willing to put in the work.



> You dont realize that Orlando was a top 4 team all season. With Jameer healthy, we peaked at #1 even when KG was still in the rotation. Even though Boston matches up well with us, they are not eons better than us. Both of these are good teams that, if 100%, a series could go either way. Adding Sheed is a nice piece. He always gave Dwight problems when he was in Detroit and I said it was a good pickup. What more do you want from me?? But think Boston does not have the east on lock. There are two other teams with core pieces who are both getting better with experience, while Boston core pieces seem to all only be getting older, slower, and more injury prone. It is a legit concern. That is all.


You're just delusional, then. I can't even think of how to put it in simpler terms. Maybe assigning point values to each player and showing the number increases that way, but I shouldn't have to go through that for something that is obvious to pretty much everyone except you.

Boston doesn't have the east on lock. They're the favorites, Cleveland presents a legitamite threat. Orlando is behind Cleveland. Ay?

But I guess this makes you just as homerish as I supposedly am, on your planet. I mean, I'm a homer for saying the Celtics (my team) are well ahead of the Magic (your team), but you're not a homer for saying vice-versa? Good, now I can write you down as a total hypocrite.



> Lol, you pretty much mocked Derozan future and acted as if getting a 6th seed in the playoffs isnt really worth a move like this... Maybe it isn't a big deal, but reading your actions in here and then reading you over their was just amusing to me. Reaching the playoffs for Toronto is progress. Im a bit skepital on how Hedo will work out for them too, but if they can make the playoffs consistenly, I would have to say the move is a success and they have a slightly better chance at keeping Bosh. They have trouble luring FA's so getting Hedo is big for them imo. Like I said tho, it's not a big deal.


Signing a free agent just so you can be a 6th seed that will need to sign *more* free agents to rise much higher in the standings is not a cause of celebration. DeRozan I think will be a sixth man in this league, maybe starting for the more pitiful teams in the league. I bought this into the Raptors forum, didn't sugarcoat, but also didn't trash the franchise or the fans. There isn't anything wrong with that. A mod should be familiar with this sort of stuff. You really aren't any different than the NeTS kiddies.


----------



## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)




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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Many. But if you don't succeed on the first try, keep plugging. That does seem to be your mantra even when faced with mountains of evidence against you, as well as logic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


only a boston sports fan.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Avalanche said:


>


Must have been some press conference.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Duck34234 said:


> only a boston sports fan.


This from a kid who named himself Duck and apparently lives at Disney World.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> This from a kid who named himself Duck and apparently lives at Disney World.


You really have no room to talk on the topic of lame or immature user names.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> This from a kid who named himself Duck and apparently lives at Disney World.


Humility is an admirable quality.


----------



## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Just a friendly reminder to keep things civil and reasonable in here. No personal attacks - keep barbs about posters outta here and remember that there's an ignore function for a reason.

:cheers:


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Its an opinion that is heavily backed and supported by logic and common sense, as opposed to fanboy BS.


Common sense and logic also supported the 'opinion' that Cleveland was gonna beat Orlando handily in the ECF's as well. It doesnt matter how many people you find to back your opinion it doesnt make it logical truth at all. 










Read up on some philosophy and then get back to me on how anything you have said in this thread resembles anything close to a legitimate logical argument.



> So you finally chose to respond to my actual point, and were made into a fool. Is this telling you anything? Maybe that you're _wrong_? Doubt it, continue with the tinfoil hat routine.


Ive responded to it numerous times, but I didnt know I had to go into such vast depths for you to realize ppl can actually comprehend what your saying. Your stuck up there on your little pedestal that you seem not to understand the dynamics of team sports. You basically admit that foundation of your whole opinion holds no bearing the outcome of a series when two new impact players being thrown into the mix. You havent proved me wrong on any points i've made, actually. Try again, Jacob.



> Replacing softies with egotistical softies is rarely a good move for a team like this.


Well at least noone on my team has ever felt the to be carried off of the floor by two men and wheeled into the locker room for what turns out wasnt even a good excuse for a sprained knee. Soo much for 'tough guys'. It's all a gimmick in todays NBA. 












> Fail. None of that has any correlation to toughness whatsoever.


Lol, Put two-&-two together, young Jacob. All we need as a true banger who can play at the PF position and the team will be alot more physical than we were last yr(Yup, only really takes just that one piece). Dumping Hedo is a start, as he frees up the SF position for Lewis allowing us to go big or small and still be just as effective. And we still got Dwight Howard. A guy who recently just dropped 16ppg/17rpg on your team. If you can find anyone on your team tougher than him on a nightly basis, then let me know.



> Yes, you responded with a bunch of drivel about how upgrading from nothing to a top 10 player is obsolete in comparison to another team upgrading from a near all-star caliber player to an all-star caliber player and a quality point guard to a pretty good one, even though the former team without said top 10 player took you to the limit in the playoffs. Skewed logic, as usual. Not like that will stop you, 'tho'.


Lol, ok keep reaching. If that's what it takes to ease the pain of your L. 



> Am I wrong? Doesn't look like it, I have sufficient evidence in this post alone, forget the whole thread.


Wow, you are quite the character. :laugh: Honestly, what do they put in the water up there?



> Maybe the idea that the Celtics were still more talented and had better players than Orlando contributes to those numbers. Which is why they took them as far they did in the playoffs. See? It all ties together.


Well if they were more talented and better even w/o KG, than they shouldve beat the 'lesser' Magic _despite_ KG missing. So even both teams were healthy and if the Celtics were more talented w/ both KG and Meer playing, couldn't the team w/ lesser talent still of had a chance of winning(considering that Orlando is just soo much inferior)? If the lesser team won w/o KG & Meer participating, couldn't the lesser team win with both KG and Meer playing? Accoriding to the 'logic' that your telling me. This would have been a very real possibility.



> You're hammering me for skimping/ignoring details, and now you're presenting something that _without_ the inclusion of minute details (such as schedules, opposing team's health situations, fatigue, etc.) looks half-assed, worthless, and obsolete.
> 
> But hey, here's your oppurtunity to maybe get a valid point in, if you're willing to put in the work.


Willing to put in the work? Lol, im not putting in any more work into a thread to prove anything to you. All im saying is recognize that what you hold is an opinion. Your opinion may be common, but there is nothing logical that say's Boston beats Orlando with both a healthy KG and Meer playing. Both teams healthy, Orlando beating them was still a very real possibilty bro. I know about your condition(superiority complex). It's often hard for people like yourself to accept failure or defeat, so carry on.







> You're just delusional, then. I can't even think of how to put it in simpler terms. Maybe assigning point values to each player and showing the number increases that way, but I shouldn't have to go through that for something that is obvious to pretty much everyone except you.
> 
> Boston doesn't have the east on lock. They're the favorites, Cleveland presents a legitamite threat. Orlando is behind Cleveland. Ay?
> 
> But I guess this makes you just as homerish as I supposedly am, on your planet. I mean, I'm a homer for saying the Celtics (my team) are well ahead of the Magic (your team), but you're not a homer for saying vice-versa? Good, now I can write you down as a total hypocrite.


Wow wow WOW. :laugh:

If only I have ever said that my team was well ahead of your team, then you would have a valid point. Unfortunately for you, I have always said since last season that any of those 3 teams could beat each other in a 7 game series. Go back and quote me on that. Go back into that Boston-Orlnado thread and quote me how I projected the series. I said it would be a good series either way and I was one of the only fans that was giving Boston a chance. Your the only one I know of in here that is saying that your team is well ahead of anyone. Im not that guy. Your that guy!



> Signing a free agent just so you can be a 6th seed that will need to sign *more* free agents to rise much higher in the standings is not a cause of celebration. DeRozan I think will be a sixth man in this league, maybe starting for the more pitiful teams in the league. I bought this into the Raptors forum, didn't sugarcoat, but also didn't trash the franchise or the fans. There isn't anything wrong with that. A mod should be familiar with this sort of stuff. You really aren't any different than the NeTS kiddies.


Did I say there was anything wrong with it? No. Did I give you any kind of infractions? No. 

It was just after reading your numerous posts in here and then happening to read your comment that I just happend to see over there, it just appeared to me like you were on some kind of 'power trip' cause your team made ONE move that you think puts you over the top. Maybe it will put you over the top, but it just seemed like you were overly cocky for a minute, and couldn't even handle one negative opinion about the move w/o making claims about how your team woulda coulda stomped eveyone if so and so were healthy....... 

And I dont see why you're calling out my mod-ship, when I have punished you in no way.... It just seemed to me like after Boston made this move, you think Boston is up on some kind of pedestal just by noticing your behavior. Nothing wrong it in terms of giving you an infraction, but as another fan I just thought that needed to bring down to reality a bit.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> Common sense and logic also supported the 'opinion' that Cleveland was gonna beat Orlando handily in the ECF's as well. It doesnt matter how many people you find to back your opinion it doesnt make it logical truth at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Celtics were the same team that the critics thought would lose to the Lakers and won













Blue Magic said:


> Well at least noone on my team has ever felt the to be carried off of the floor by two men and wheeled into the locker room for what turns out wasnt even a good excuse for a sprained knee. Soo much for 'tough guys'. It's all a gimmick in todays NBA.


Who cares? Paul Pierce overreacted but he certainly was more clutch than anyone on the Magic during the finals.



Blue Magic said:


> Lol, Put two-&-two together, young Jacob. All we need as a true banger who can play at the PF position and the team will be alot more physical than we were last yr(Yup, only really takes just that one piece). Dumping Hedo is a start, as he frees up the SF position for Lewis allowing us to go big or small and still be just as effective. And we still got Dwight Howard. A guy who recently just dropped 16ppg/17rpg on your team. If you can find anyone on your team tougher than him on a nightly basis, then let me know.



If this is who is a "tougher" team competition, I'm going to have to go with the Boston Celtics. You've got Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Kendrik Perkins vs Dwight Howard and maybe Gortat if he sticks around. Rasheed Wallace did a good job guarding Dwight Howard when he was on the Pistons. 



Blue Magic said:


> Well if they were more talented and better even w/o KG, than they shouldve beat the 'lesser' Magic _despite_ KG missing. So even both teams were healthy and if the Celtics were more talented w/ both KG and Meer playing, couldn't the team w/ lesser talent still of had a chance of winning(considering that Orlando is just soo much inferior)? If the lesser team won w/o KG & Meer participating, couldn't the lesser team win with both KG and Meer playing? Accoriding to the 'logic' that your telling me. This would have been a very real possibility.


Kevin Garnett healthy is a much better player Jameer Nelson. The best case scenario for Orlando is that their offense runs better with Nelson in. With KG, he helps both the offensive and defensive end in the court. Orlando's point guard depth was much better than Boston's PF/C depth last year. 

Sure, it is still possible that Orlando could have beaten Boston in a 7 game series. That's why they play the game. But it would be more surprising, it would be an order of magnitude bigger than the Magic upsetting the Cavaliers. I certainly think Boston would have given LA a better series than Orlando IF they were healthy. 

Orlando still has a chance to prove to be a better team. Perhaps Dwight Howard takes his game to a new level. The Celtics are getting older and it will be interesting to see how they play against Orlando's uptempo play. But Orlando seems to thrive when everyone overlooks them. It's probably better for their team as a whole since they'll have less pressure on them.


----------



## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Avalanche said:


>


Not digging the braids. Is there a video of this press conference available?


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

briaN37 said:


> Not digging the braids. Is there a video of this press conference available?


No, LeBron James confiscated it.


----------



## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

f22egl said:


> The Celtics were the same team that the critics thought would lose to the Lakers and won
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Repped. Good post.

Homerism is a horrible thing sometimes...but a healthy Celtics team is definitely more likely to beat a healthy Magic team in a playoffs series than not. Boston has a better playoffs game/philosophy than the Magic as well as a better lineup. I'm going to throw in better coach too after the whole Nelson in the Finals fiasco and dealing with Howard's doubts about the coach in the media.

It would be more of an upset if a healthy Magic did beat a healthy Celtics in a playoffs series than the other way around.

Just like if a healthy Spurs squad were to beat a healthy Lakers this past postseason; its within the realm of possibility but the Lakers have the advantage since they were the better team.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

hobojoe said:


> No, LeBron James confiscated it.


:champagne:


gold!!!


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jakain said:


> Repped. Good post.
> 
> Homerism is a horrible thing sometimes...but a healthy Celtics team is definitely more likely to beat a healthy Magic team in a playoffs series than not. Boston has a better playoffs game/philosophy than the Magic as well as a better lineup. I'm going to throw in better coach too after the whole Nelson in the Finals fiasco and dealing with Howard's doubts about the coach in the media.
> 
> ...


Ok, so a team simply being in position of _'favored to win'_(assuming all sides healthy), therefor gives their fans the right to claim that they would basically 'stomp' any and every opponent they faced?? I strongly disagree with that as 'logical truth' but whatever. I guess Houston fans can say that since their D-League rotation took LA to 7 games, adding in TMac & Yao Ming would therefore mean they would've dismantled LA and LA wouldn't have even stood a chance. I mean if that's how you guys want to think then I guess that's your opinion, but I think a healthy Houston vs a healthy LA wouldve still been a hell of a series.....That's just me though. 

I understand that KG is an important piece & a valuable piece and he is one of your leaders, but I dont see how anything i've said has been unreasonable or homerism. Ive always said that a healthy Boston team very well could've won the series. Whats so homerish about that? Is really that homerish to say that my team healthy still had a legit chance?? NEVER have I said that Orlando would stomp or dismantle Boston w/ KG nor have I made any unreasable claims about Orlando. Ive _always_ said that either team could've won it, injuries or no injuries and this is dating back to before the series even started(Go back to the series thread and quote me on it! Both of these team were _very_ good regular season teams before the injuries and _despite_ the injury's). 

But the notion that Orlando wouldn't have even had a remote chance w/ KG and that Boston winning is a 'logical truth' is beyond laughable. Sounds pretty melodious to the casual viewer and those that want to be believe Orlando's run was a fluke and that they're a gimmick, but that 'opinion' from Jacob contains much more homerism than anything ive ever said. Orlando was won of, if not, the hottest teams in the league right before Jameer went down. We were playing incredible basketball and Jameer's play was a key reason in our improvement from last season to this season. I was just giving my opinion, and saying that Orlando would've have a solid chance at it either way. But this guy reaching and making claims that his opinion is a logical truth! (And yet im the unreasonable homer??!) If he ever took a philosophy course and tried to pull some of these stunts and call them legit arguments, the professor would probably die of laughter while failing him.


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

^ I'm not even sure we're arguing. Basically what I'm saying is that a healthy Boston team is more likely to beat a healthy Orlando team. Just like a healthy Lakers team is likely to beat out a healthy Spurs team. Its a 'safe bet'. 

Go to Las Vegas or any gambling joint and Boston and LA would be favored in such a hypothetical situation over Magic/Spurs/whoever. Odds are in Boston and LA's favor providing they're healthy.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

^I could agree with that. The difference between you and him is, that guy is trying to claim it as a 'logical truth' or a 'fact'.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The Magic just got Bass. Good day in Magic land.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> The Magic just got Bass. Good day in Magic land.


Does this mean we can start calling their fans Basstards? :bsmile:


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> Does this mean we can start calling their fans Basstards? :bsmile:


:laugh: Bass-tards indeed.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> You really have no room to talk on the topic of lame or immature user names.


OOOooooo!!



Blue Magic said:


> Common sense and logic also supported the 'opinion' that Cleveland was gonna beat Orlando handily in the ECF's as well. It doesnt matter how many people you find to back your opinion it doesnt make it logical truth at all.


*THE ESPN ANALYSTS PREDICTIONS DON'T REPRESENT LOGIC OR COMMON SENSE IN THE LEAST. WHY THE **** DO YOU KEEP EMBARRASSING YOURSELF LIKE THIS????*



> Read up on some philosophy and then get back to me on how anything you have said in this thread resembles anything close to a legitimate logical argument.


I don't need to. It all comes back to the common sense thing you sorely lack.



> Ive responded to it numerous times, but I didnt know I had to go into such vast depths for you to realize ppl can actually comprehend what your saying. Your stuck up there on your little pedestal that you seem not to understand the dynamics of team sports.


WTF are you trying to get across here? Read up on some grammar and then try to insult me. 



> You basically admit that foundation of your whole opinion holds no bearing the outcome of a series when two new impact players being thrown into the mix. You havent proved me wrong on any points i've made, actually. Try again, Jacob.


I haven't admitted this anywhere, because it isn't true.


Let's try this a different way. The Spurs and Mavs are playing a series that the Spurs push to game 7. The Spurs are missing Tim Duncan, the Mavs Jason Terry. If those two players were playing for their teams, who would have won?



> Well at least noone on my team has ever felt the to be carried off of the floor by two men and wheeled into the locker room for what turns out wasnt even a good excuse for a sprained knee. Soo much for 'tough guys'. It's all a gimmick in todays NBA.
> 
> *idiotic picture*


Ohhhh the injury thing. Now I know you're on your last legs.

How do you know he wasn't faking it? Or even better, did it or has it ever affected his play on the floor? You really are awful at this. Just quit. Nobody would blame you. 



> Lol, Put two-&-two together, young Jacob. All we need as a true banger who can play at the PF position and the team will be alot more physical than we were last yr(Yup, only really takes just that one piece). Dumping Hedo is a start, as he frees up the SF position for Lewis allowing us to go big or small and still be just as effective. And we still got Dwight Howard. A guy who recently just dropped 16ppg/17rpg on your team. If you can find anyone on your team tougher than him on a nightly basis, then let me know.


I never called Dwight Howard soft, I called the team soft. Good strawman. And if Dwighty is this tuff, why is the Brandon Bass acquisition (or the banging PF you're yapping about here) so important for tuffness, since Dwighty being there would make it redundant?

Getting Rashard out of power forward is a decent start, because they weren't winning anything with him in there.



> Lol, ok keep reaching. If that's what it takes to ease the pain of your L.


I'm not reaching, just stating the clownish crap you shat out onto this thread.

Hurts been caught red-handed on your idiocy, huh? AXEPT UR L, LULLLZ!!!!!!!!1111!!1



> Wow, you are quite the character. :laugh: Honestly, what do they put in the water up there?


The stuff that allows us to read properly and be able to identify someone who cannot (you).

The sad thing is, with every post you continue to prove your incompetence when it concerns literacy in general.



> Well if they were more talented and better even w/o KG, than they shouldve beat the 'lesser' Magic _despite_ KG missing. So even both teams were healthy and if the Celtics were more talented w/ both KG and Meer playing, couldn't the team w/ lesser talent still of had a chance of winning(considering that Orlando is just soo much inferior)?


My god, do I honestly have to go over this?

2006-2007, Dallas wins 67 games and gets knocked out in the first round. Why didn't they win that series? There's a couple of right answers here.

The reason I'm stating situations as opposed to just coming out loud with the cause is so maybe you'll thinking. Maybe a pipe dream, but I'm trying.



> If the lesser team won w/o KG & Meer participating, couldn't the lesser team win with both KG and Meer playing? Accoriding to the 'logic' that your telling me. This would have been a very real possibility.


No, that isn't logical. Solve the very complicated riddle above and you'll likely get the answer to this.



> Willing to put in the work? Lol, im not putting in any more work into a thread to prove anything to you. All im saying is recognize that what you hold is an opinion. Your opinion may be common, but there is nothing logical that say's Boston beats Orlando with both a healthy KG and Meer playing. Both teams healthy, Orlando beating them was still a very real possibilty bro. I know about your condition(superiority complex). It's often hard for people like yourself to accept failure or defeat, so carry on.


Good, except: 1) There is no failure on my part, epic amounts of such on yours. 2) Logic and common sense back up my opinions, your replica Jameer jersey backs up yours. 3) Well, if you don't want to actually try and get a decent point in for once, that's your issue. Could've broken the 0-fer.



> Wow wow WOW. :laugh:
> 
> If only I have ever said that my team was well ahead of your team, then you would have a valid point. Unfortunately for you, I have always said since last season that any of those 3 teams could beat each other in a 7 game series. Go back and quote me on that. Go back into that Boston-Orlnado thread and quote me how I projected the series. I said it would be a good series either way and I was one of the only fans that was giving Boston a chance. Your the only one I know of in here that is saying that your team is well ahead of anyone. Im not that guy. Your that guy!


And once again, your reading comprehension makes you look like a total fool. Read my ****ing post again. I called you on a logic shortage since me having an opinion supporting my team makes me a homer, but apparently you favoring your team is not. Is this not hypocritical? Anything about last season or any other debate is completely irrelevant. If you really want to know, I initially picked Orlando to win that series in 5. But does it mean anything?



> Did I say there was anything wrong with it? No. Did I give you any kind of infractions? No.


Then why start talking about it? Heeeeeere comes the backpedaling. 



> It was just after reading your numerous posts in here and then happening to read your comment that I just happend to see over there, it just appeared to me like you were on some kind of 'power trip' cause your team made ONE move that you think puts you over the top. Maybe it will put you over the top, but it just seemed like you were overly cocky for a minute, and couldn't even handle one negative opinion about the move w/o making claims about how your team woulda coulda stomped eveyone if so and so were healthy.......


lol 



> And I dont see why you're calling out my mod-ship, when I have punished you in no way.... It just seemed to me like after Boston made this move, you think Boston is up on some kind of pedestal just by noticing your behavior. Nothing wrong it in terms of giving you an infraction, but as another fan I just thought that needed to bring down to reality a bit.


Mods should be familiar with the rules. You seem to comprehend that I did nothing, so you're backing off your earlier posts on that subject. 

O NOEZ IM 0N A PEDISTILL!!!!


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Wow, this conversation is obviously going nowhere. Good riddance.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Finally smartening up and running? Good on you.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> OOOooooo!!


:laugh: You say nothing because you know it's true. The only way it could be "better" is if you added a "#1 fan" to your username. It's not like I'm bringing it up, you're the one who had the audacity to mock someone else's username. 

The only argument I've been making in this thread is that the Magic did just beat the Celtics in the playoffs, it's a little odd that Celtics fans would be so confident and condescending in their posts about the Magic. The Magic are improved and have added a couple nice pieces in Vince Carter, Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson, the Celtics will have Kevin Garnett in some form, Kevin Garnett and their team is yet another year older. It just baffles me the attitude in anointing the Celtics when there are plenty of questions surrounding them heading into the year. They're one of the 3 best teams in the East, but I think they have a lot to prove and we'll have to see a resurgence from them for me to put them atop the East unequivocally. 

And whoever said Doc Rivers is a better coach than Stan Van Gundy, that's not true at all.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> :laugh: You say nothing because you know it's true. The only way it could be "better" is if you added a "#1 fan" to your username. It's not like I'm bringing it up, you're the one who had the audacity to mock someone else's username.


My username is the name of a baseball player. (It seems you dont listen, once again, cut it with the personal attacks, last warning )



> The only argument I've been making in this thread is that the Magic did just beat the Celtics in the playoffs, it's a little odd that Celtics fans would be so confident and condescending in their posts about the Magic. The Magic are improved and have added a couple nice pieces in Vince Carter, Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson, the Celtics will have Kevin Garnett in some form, Kevin Garnett and their team is yet another year older. It just baffles me the attitude in anointing the Celtics when there are plenty of questions surrounding them heading into the year. They're one of the 3 best teams in the East, but I think they have a lot to prove and we'll have to see a resurgence from them for me to put them atop the East unequivocally.


Department of redundancy department. We covered pretty much all of this already.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

stfu about it and put money on it
Vegas says the Magic are LESS favored than the Celtics. But hey what do they know they are just in this business to make money....


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Ok, one team is 4.5/1. The other team is 5/1. Are you really trying to base your argument off of that minute difference?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> My username is the name of a baseball player. (It seems you dont listen, once again, cut it with the personal attacks, last warning )
> 
> 
> 
> Department of redundancy department. We covered pretty much all of this already.


Where was the personal attack here? I explained my reasoning for calling a mere troll out on his username, when he was well... acting the part. Vindictive much?


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> My username is the name of a baseball player. (It seems you dont listen, once again, cut it with the personal attacks, last warning )


Again, you mocking someone for their username being "Duck" when yours makes you look like a little fan boy of a 25 year old dude, no one over the age of 12 should do. Not to mention Ellsbury's not even that good. This is all irrelevant, and I don't care. Again (I don't know how many times I have to say this), I only bring it up because you of all people who bring up the topic of username. There's really no point in trying to argue anything with you, any point you don't have a response to is dismissed as "babble" or some other clever way of pushing it to the side. And I would love to know what you said, I wish it hadn't been edited. And yea, I'm a troll


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

This many posts in the Sheed thread, and I haven't even seen the man in Boston Green yet. - shaking fist -


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Ok, one team is 4.5/1. The other team is 5/1. Are you really trying to base your argument off of that minute difference?


You're basing yours off bias opinions.. So yes, this minute difference shows you how petty the back and forth is. Vegas odd makers aren't in the business of screwing themselves by putting out odds they don't feel are in their favor. At this point they feel the Celtics are better so until the season starts you'll just sound like a homer *** fan for the most part.

Personally, I like both teams and would love to see them in the ECF but I can't say the Magic are favored at this point. Nor can anyone who's not bleeding Magic Blue for the most part.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> Again, you mocking someone for their username being "Duck" when yours makes you look like a little fan boy of a 25 year old dude, no one over the age of 12 should do. Not to mention Ellsbury's not even that good. This is all irrelevant, and I don't care. Again (I don't know how many times I have to say this), I only bring it up because you of all people who bring up the topic of username. There's really no point in trying to argue anything with you, any point you don't have a response to is dismissed as "babble" or some other clever way of pushing it to the side.


Makes me a look like a little fanboy, huh? Why does it matter if the player's not that good, he can't be my favorite player on the team for that? And what does this have to do with someone acting like an 8 year old in his posts, having his username and other info reflecting that, and me making the connection?

I think you care about this more than other clown does.



> And I would love to know what you said, I wish it hadn't been edited. And yea, I'm a troll


Too bad what was edited wasn't in reference to you. Shame, you're proving to be no better other than the fact that you can produce a complete sentence.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

hobojoe said:


> Again, you mocking someone for their username being "Duck" when yours makes you look like a little fan boy of a 25 year old dude, no one over the age of 12 should do. Not to mention Ellsbury's not even that good. This is all irrelevant, and I don't care. Again (I don't know how many times I have to say this), I only bring it up because you of all people who bring up the topic of username. There's really no point in trying to argue anything with you, any point you don't have a response to is dismissed as "babble" or some other clever way of pushing it to the side. And I would love to know what you said, I wish it hadn't been edited. And yea, I'm a troll














stevemc said:


> You're basing yours off bias opinions.. So yes, this minute difference shows you how petty the back and forth is. Vegas odd makers aren't in the business of screwing themselves by putting out odds they don't feel are in their favor. At this point they feel the Celtics are better so until the season starts you'll just sound like a homer *** fan for the most part.
> 
> Personally, I like both teams and would love to see them in the ECF but I can't say the Magic are favored at this point. Nor can anyone who's not bleeding Magic Blue for the most part.


I'm a 'homer *** fan' for saying that my team wouldve still at least had a legit chance and wouldnt have gotten 'stomped'?? You clearly forget how close these three east teams were at one point last season even when everyone was healthy. When Orlando was playing at our best, we could've beat anybody last year. I never said Orlando were or should be the favorites, but as EC Champs, we deserve some more respect and everyone in the east still has to come through us regardless of what you say. 

Last year everyone said Orlando was good but we didn't have the experience necessary to be ranked with CLE or BOS, and our offense was a gimmick. Now we have Finals experience and we're transforming our offense into less of a gimmick, but people still are saying the same exact things as last season and the year before last. No matter how many times we beat Cleveland, the media will always say they're better than us. Boston, lol good luck trying to have an objective conversation with any there fans. They're team is logically unbeatable, and it's an undeniable fact. :makeadeal


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

> Boston, lol good luck trying to have an objective conversation with any there fans. They're team is logically unbeatable, and it's an undeniable fact. :makeadeal


Holy ****ing ****.










Seriously, use it. Gotta start somewhere.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> I'm a 'homer *** fan' for saying that my team wouldve still at least had a legit chance and wouldnt have gotten 'stomped'?? You clearly forget how close these three east teams were at one point last season when everyone was healthy. When Orlando was playing at our best, we could've beat anybody last year. I never said Orlando were or should be the favorites, but as EC Champs, we deserve some more respect and everyone in the east still has to come through us regardless of what you say.


It's all in the verbage used. "Stomped" is an over statement by the otherside but the Magic are still going to be the underdogs in most people's minds. It's not a terrible role to be in. It's just hard to discount the depth and experience the Celtics are bringing to the table. 

I also don't buy the "come through us" statement that's overused in sports. Last year in the NFL the AFC would have to go through the Pats so to speak... they didn't even make the playoffs due to Tom Brady going down in their 1st offensive series. Nothing goes through ANY team until the playoffs. Even then it's not a completely true statement. More of a figure of speech that's not always true. Did the road to the finals in the West go through the Spurs this past season? Not hardly. 


> Last year everyone said Orlando was good but we didn't have the experience necessary to be ranked with CLE or BOS, and our offense was a gimmick. Now we have Finals experience and we're transforming our offense into less of a gimmick, but people still are saying the same exact things as last season and the year before last. No matter how many times we beat Cleveland, the media will always say they're better than us. Boston, lol good luck trying to have an objective conversation with any there fans. They're team is logically unbeatable, and it's an undeniable fact. :makeadeal


I say the Magic are ranked up there in the top tier of the East but "on paper" I give the edge to the Celtics. Of course this is just all "on paper" since we're months away from anything else. That's why the play the games. It's not like the NCAA Football season where the rankings come out here in few weeks before anyones even played a game and it practically predetermines much of how the season will pan out with out the teams ever facing each other.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Steve, don't bother. He's in uber sulk/whine mode.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Where was the personal attack here? I explained my reasoning for calling a mere troll out on his username, when he was well... acting the part. Vindictive much?


You called him a ---wit. That would qualify no?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Holy ****ing ****.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Original comback. :clap:




stevemc said:


> It's all in the verbage used. "Stomped" is an over statement by the otherside but the Magic are still going to be the underdogs in most people's minds. It's not a terrible role to be in. It's just hard to discount the depth and experience the Celtics are bringing to the table.
> 
> I also don't buy the "come through us" statement that's overused in sports. Last year in the NFL the AFC would have to go through the Pats so to speak... they didn't even make the playoffs due to Tom Brady going down in their 1st offensive series. Nothing goes through ANY team until the playoffs. Even then it's not a completely true statement. More of a figure of speech that's not always true. Did the road to the finals in the West go through the Spurs this past season? Not hardly.
> 
> ...


No, last yr the west went through LA, who were the defending WCF Champs and beat the defending champion Spurs on the way to get that title. Last yr, the east clearly went through Boston who were defending champs. Orlando took them out and won the East so now the east goes through them. Im not saying that Orlando has to be everybody's favorite, but right now I dont think people are giving respect where respects due. Boston may be the best, but they will have to take it back. Orlando's not handing them nothing on a platter, just because the majority say's they woulda shoulda won if KG was healthy. Next yr the east goes through the O until someone takes it!


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> No, last yr the west went through LA, who were the defending WCF Champs and beat the defending champion Spurs on the way to get that title. Last yr, the east clearly went through Boston who were defending champs. Orlando took them out and won the East so now the east goes through them. Im not saying that Orlando has to be everybody's favorite, but right now I dont think people are giving respect where respects due. Boston may be the best, but they will have to take it back. Orlando's not handing them nothing on a platter, just because the majority say's they woulda shoulda won if KG was healthy. Next yr the east goes through the O until someone takes it!


Off a year on the Spurs, better example would be the Mavs in the 2006-2007 season.

Either way, I still don't like the cliche. So if Orlando fails to make he playoffs because of some freak injuries to half the team the road to the finals still goes through Orlando?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Blue Magic said:


> Original comback. :clap:


Seriously though, your spelling was horrific. He completely owned you and all you had to say was, "Original comback" (which you also spelled incorrectly)? Owned.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

This thread is about 10 pages too long :read:


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Seriously though, your spelling was horrific. He completely owned you and all you had to say was, "Original comback" (which you also spelled incorrectly)? Owned.


Don't even bother callling that guy out, because his keyboard will break and you will never get the answer of the question you originally asked about.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Lol, Bottom line is that barring injury, there should be another amazing race for the top spot in the east between Orlando, Cleveland and Boston. You guys can make all the 'logical' claims and assumptions that you want about who will beat #1 and who will stomp who, but i'll leave it at that as I always have. 

Now, wave goodbye to the biggest homer in the world. :wave:


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Now, wave goodbye to the biggest homer in the world. :wave:


Logging off the boards, for once?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Heh just for the heck of it, do you ever see age being a problem for the Celts Jacoby? It seems to be a factor you arent taking into consideration. The Celtics are up there in age and will be going against some very young and athletic teams.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

This season, I can only see age mattering by leading to injuries. In 2010-11, we'll see skills start to diminish.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Makes me a look like a little fanboy, huh? Why does it matter if the player's not that good, he can't be my favorite player on the team for that? And what does this have to do with someone acting like an 8 year old in his posts, having his username and other info reflecting that, and me making the connection?
> 
> I think you care about this more than other clown does.


It doesn't matter, and I agree that you should've attacked his post. It was bad, childish and everything else you said. Bringing up his username was the only part I had a problem with, and like I said it's just a little odd that _you_ would bring it up.





> Too bad what was edited wasn't in reference to you. Shame, you're proving to be no better other than the fact that you can produce a complete sentence.


How on earth is that my fault that something you wrote while quoting me was edited and I didn't know it wasn't about me? I didn't know mind-reading was an intelligence requirement. 

Back on topic though, I am genuinely interested in what you have to say. Is it your opinion that Pierce, Allen, Garnett and Sheed have not _already_ shown diminishing? I can understand you acknowledging that but saying at the same time that it's not enough to worry you for this year, but even without injuries don't you think the key members of the Celtics (or at least a lot of them) have shown signs of diminishing skills and not being able to bring it every night? I'm just asking because I think so, and that's the crux of my argument is that Boston, Cleveland and Orlando when fully healthy were all roughly equal in terms of regular season wins and losses before injuries occurred. All three have added pieces this summer to improve, but if you acknowledge that the Celtics have key players with diminishing skills and Orlando and Cleveland are centered around 23/24 year old superstars who are just hitting their prime, you have to at least be able to entertain the idea that they're natural progression combined with Boston's natural regression, or aging could leave them as the 3rd best team in the East. It's not like I'm signing them up for their AARP cards and telling you they can't beat the Knicks, I'm talking about the defending Eastern Conference champs and the team that won 66 games last year, added a top 10 player of all-time and has the best player in the game right now.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)




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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Jesus Christ the Celtics do whatever they can to make me hate them even more.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Avalanche said:


>


Couldn't he have changed his pants too?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

VanillaPrice said:


> Jesus Christ the Celtics do whatever they can to make me hate them even more.


Lol. I agree. First KG, now Weed Wallace?
Man, this will be a funny season to follow.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> It doesn't matter, and I agree that you should've attacked his post. It was bad, childish and everything else you said. Bringing up his username was the only part I had a problem with, and like I said it's just a little odd that _you_ would bring it up.


Okay champ.



> How on earth is that my fault that something you wrote while quoting me was edited and I didn't know it wasn't about me? I didn't know mind-reading was an intelligence requirement.


Context would indicate that what was edited was me expounding on my insulting of the other clown's username.



> Back on topic though, I am genuinely interested in what you have to say. Is it your opinion that Pierce, Allen, Garnett and Sheed have not _already_ shown diminishing? I can understand you acknowledging that but saying at the same time that it's not enough to worry you for this year, but even without injuries don't you think the key members of the Celtics (or at least a lot of them) have shown signs of diminishing skills and not being able to bring it every night?


Skills wise, the only I feel has seen a real, legitamite diminish is Sheed, and you can even argue that its because he had no motivation. The big 3's numbers have decreased since coming to Boston because they have to sacrifice numbers to make it work and let everyone be effective. Ray's 34, and normally I would say the most prone to a diminish, but what's his game? Shooting. At 34, you can still shoot. You can still shoot well. If he doesn't run as well or plays inferior defense, that's not _good_, but its not crushing (since Ray wasn't much of a defender anyway).

KG's age (33) and the injury he's coming off does concern me. The guy has mileage, but he's also very headstrong, and has displayed that repeatedly. Skills-wise I'm not worried, especially considering he's more of a jump shooter on offense than a post player. Injuries do concern me a little due to his mileage. 

Pierce is 32 and I severely doubt we'll see any drop-offs from him. 32 is the end of your prime, but not quite the beginning of your decline.



> I'm just asking because I think so, and that's the crux of my argument is that Boston, Cleveland and Orlando when fully healthy were all roughly equal in terms of regular season wins and losses before injuries occurred.


There is a ton of variables you could tie into that, particularly with the scheduling. What teams did they play? What were the pulse of those teams at the time they played them (second night of a back-to-back? missing players? long road trip?)? Either way, if the best regular season record was the unchallengable measuring stick of who's the best team, the top record would always be winning the title. So its moot.



> All three have added pieces this summer to improve, but if you acknowledge that the Celtics have key players with diminishing skills and Orlando and Cleveland are centered around 23/24 year old superstars who are just hitting their prime, you have to at least be able to entertain the idea that they're natural progression combined with Boston's natural regression, or aging could leave them as the 3rd best team in the East.


But I don't acknowledge the Celtics players' skills will diminish this season. Its a possibility (so is everything else), but I've explained why I'm not that concerned about it.



> I'm talking about the defending Eastern Conference champs


That only had one juggernaut team to go through, instead of two.



> and the team that won 66 games last year, added a top 10 player of all-time and has the best player in the game right now.


A former top 10 player.

And I believe I've acknowledged that Cleveland scares me. Infinite times more than Orlando. Can you really expect to improve on 66 wins though?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Skills wise, the only I feel has seen a real, legitamite diminish is Sheed, and you can even argue that its because he had no motivation. The big 3's numbers have decreased since coming to Boston because they have to sacrifice numbers to make it work and let everyone be effective. Ray's 34, and normally I would say the most prone to a diminish, but what's his game? Shooting. At 34, you can still shoot. You can still shoot well. If he doesn't run as well or plays inferior defense, that's not _good_, but its not crushing (since Ray wasn't much of a defender anyway).


Ray was more than just a shooter though, if he's relegated to being just a shooter he's clearly diminished as a player. 



> KG's age (33) and the injury he's coming off does concern me. The guy has mileage, but he's also very headstrong, and has displayed that repeatedly. Skills-wise I'm not worried, especially considering he's more of a jump shooter on offense than a post player. Injuries do concern me a little due to his mileage.


That's what I'm saying though, Garnett is obviously going to be a quality defender and a unique leader. But he's little more than a jump shooter these days, and I think even before his injury it was obvious his skills were diminishing.



> Pierce is 32 and I severely doubt we'll see any drop-offs from him. 32 is the end of your prime, but not quite the beginning of your decline.


I think Pierce too has already shown it though. He looked worn out to me at the end last year and in the playoffs. Obviously he was never much of an athlete compared to other NBA players, but he looked really, really slow and couldn't get by his man like he's made a living off his entire career. 



> There is a ton of variables you could tie into that, particularly with the scheduling. What teams did they play? What were the pulse of those teams at the time they played them (second night of a back-to-back? missing players? long road trip?)? Either way, if the best regular season record was the unchallengable measuring stick of who's the best team, the top record would always be winning the title. So its moot.


Oh of course that's true, but it's not like we're talking about a small sample size of a week or something. It was a good part of the season. I hear your point, but regular season records aren't a moot point. I'm not claiming they're the be all end all, but the fact that Cleveland, Boston and Orlando were all bunched up in the standings and changing spots every day says something about the quality of the teams. 





> But I don't acknowledge the Celtics players' skills will diminish this season. Its a possibility (so is everything else), but I've explained why I'm not that concerned about it.


Right, this is where we disagree. If you can see why I think they've diminished, you can see how I've drawn my conclusions though. 



> That only had one juggernaut team to go through, instead of two.


You can only play the team in front of you. 



> A former top 10 player.


Still one of the best centers in the league.



> And I believe I've acknowledged that Cleveland scares me. Infinite times more than Orlando. Can you really expect to improve on 66 wins though?


I didn't see where you said that, but I agree Cleveland should worry you more than Orlando because of the matchup. Just like I was more worried about Boston with or without KG last year than I was about Cleveland. Doesn't mean Cleveland is better than Boston or that Boston is better than Orlando. We'll see though, when it comes down to it I think your core players have demonstrated diminishing skills that I think will continue given their age, you disagree.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Celts just picked up Marquis Daniels for the bi-annual. Good pick up. They retain Big Baby, and their bench looks pretty good.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Dang, that's a steal. Celtics just got much better.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Dang, that's a steal. Celtics just got much better.


He's a a pretty decent player. Just a matter of continuing basketball education with the kid. Everything else is pretty much there. I can't count the times he seemed like the lost kid on the court with the Mavs. Can't say I saw him much with the Pacers but it's not something you break out of in just a year or two. Doesn't mean he can't play great ball when not asked to do to much which should be the case with the C's.


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