# If T-Mac is hellbent on wanting to be traded?



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If he wants to be traded to Houston so bad, what about this deal for the Magic. Note this is only if Orlando is going to trade T-Mac, so don't jump all over me. If it doesn't happen, then it doesn't. 


Orlando trades: PF Juwan Howard (17.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.5 minutes) 
SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes) 
C Andrew DeClercq (3.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 17.1 minutes) 
Orlando receives: PG Steve Francis (16.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 6.2 apg in 40.4 minutes) 
C Kelvin Cato (6.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 25.3 minutes) 
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.4 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -9.7 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +2.3 apg. 

Houston trades: PG Steve Francis (16.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 6.2 apg in 40.4 minutes) 
C Kelvin Cato (6.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 25.3 minutes) 
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.4 minutes) 
Houston receives: PF Juwan Howard (17.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 81 games) 
SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 67 games) 
C Andrew DeClercq (3.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 71 games) 
Change in team outlook: +9.7 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -2.3 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Orlando and Houston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Orlando and Houston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


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Now other that, the Magic have the picks 1 (Emeka Okafor), 31 (Uros Sloker) and 37 (Chris Duhon). They would still have the MLE and the LLE to use.

Then Orlando trades Drew Gooden and a future lottery protected first round pick till 2009 for Vlad Radmanovic, Flip Murray and Richie Frahm. 

Seattle trades: PF Vladimir Radmanovic (12.0 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 30.2 minutes) 
PG Ronald Murray (12.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 24.7 minutes) 
SG Richie Frahm (3.4 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 8.6 minutes) 
Seattle receives: PF Drew Gooden (11.6 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.0 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -16.1 ppg, -2.3 rpg, and -3.6 apg. 

Orlando trades: PF Drew Gooden (11.6 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.0 minutes) 
Orlando receives: PF Vladimir Radmanovic (12.0 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 77 games) 
PG Ronald Murray (12.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 82 games) 
SG Richie Frahm (3.4 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 54 games) 
Change in team outlook: +16.1 ppg, +2.3 rpg, and +3.6 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Seattle and Orlando being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Seattle and Orlando had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


C - Kelvin Cato/Keon Clark/Zaza Pachulia
PF - Emeka Okafor/Tony Massenburg/Uros Sloker
SF - Vladimir Radmanovic/Deshawn Stevenson/Keith Bogans
SG - Cuttino Mobley/Flip Murray/Richie Frahm
PG - Steve Francis/Chris Duhon/Tyronn Lue (if not picked up in the expansion draft)

This team still has the MLE and the LLE and the vet's minimum to use to fill out the roster. They could always add someone like Mark Blount/Keon Clark (I gave them Keon for half the MLE) to compete with Cato for the C spot and sign someone like Tony Massenburg for toughness in the paint at the Vet's minimum. That leaves them with half the MLE and the LLE left if they want to. 

If Grant Hill comes back, then everything is gravy. If not, then it really doesn't matter. This is a more dynamic offensive team and with Johnny Davis still the HC (and Paul Westhead as an Asst.) the Magic should be trying like hell to score over 105 ppg. With Okafor and Cato downlow to anchor the paint on defense, the Magic should be tough to score in the paint. The key to this whole piece is Vladimir Radmanovic. You know what you are going to get from Mobley and Francis (who I think would welcome the trade), but if Radman can become the Peja like player that everyone thinks he can be (including myself), then the Magic team is 10x better than it was last year. They also are not depending on one player to score for this team.

Duhon is the consummate pass first PG and can play in a backcourt with Francis on occasion. Murray is a combo guard who can fill up the stat sheet off the bench (as can Frahm). Stevenson and Bogans will go out and attempt to play defense and play all out to the floor. Clark and Massenburg provide athleticism and toughness off the bench. 

I think Orlando would be the best they have been in years with this team. 

What do you think?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

On Houston's side of this, I don't know if they are really that much better, but this what they probably would look like. 

Houston 
C - Yao Ming/Malick Badiane/Michael Bradley (Vet minimum)
PF - Maurice Taylor/Clarence Weatherspoon/Scott Padgett
SF - Jim Jackson/Eric Williams (vet minimum)/Bostjan Nachbar
SG - Tracy McGrady/Eric Piatkowski/Christian Drejer (56th pick)
PG - Carlos Arroyo (MLE)/Damon Jones (LLE)/Mike Wilks (minimum)

The bench is pretty terrible, if and only because Nachbar and Badiane are still very green and haven't had the chance to play. They would need to find another swingman somewhere to fill out the roster.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

I'm not a fan of Mobley nor Francis, so let me point out that bias before saying that as an Orlando fan I wouldn't want this trade to go down. I believe that if we lose McGrady we should rebuild instead of becoming a marginal team on the fringe of the playoffs. If we lose McGrady I'd be more willing to accept it if we received picks or young talent/potential.
Some trades which I've heard which I do think we should look into include:
San Antonio - Tony Parker & a resigned Ginobili.
Chicago - #3 & Chandler/Curry.
LA Clippers - #2 & Corey Maggete (Chris Wilcox possibly)
Phoenix - #7, Marion & Johnson (it looks as if this is a lot more than what is offered in the other deals though, but I'd do this with a blink of the eye)

As for the Houston Rockets trade, I don't see how it would make us any better than the current Rockets squad minus the tall Yao Ming. Sure, Houston was a lot better than us but we don't have the luxury of a giant and skilled center, and Houston couldn't go far in the East minus Ming. We are a lot deeper though, but I still wouldn't do it. I'd rather suffer for 2-3 years rebuilding with some youngsters than be mediocre with Francis running the point.

Here is an earlier post of mine about trading the #1 pick to try and keep McGrady:
I woke up today, because I'm posted in the Netherlands, to the news that we (The Magic Fans of the World) had been lucky enough with Pat Williams to be drawn as the first pick. At first I was relieved that we would be picking first, but once I started to think about it I'm not sure if it was actually the best thing. Okafor is a great player, don't get me wrong, and he'll be a very nice post presence straight away in the East. But is "very nice" what we need, we came last in the League yet we won't start rebuilding. Emeka Okafor would surely help us, but is he really that much better than picking up Biedrins or someone else? Of course, a lot depends on what McGrady says before the draft though.
Today I was reading through some headlines and saw that Charlotte was interested in moving up to the first or second pick and was willing to offer the 4th pick and "considerations." This gave me the idea that we should package the 1st pick and Grant Hill (considering he can't get healthy, and the Magic know this) for the 4th pick and a player that Charlotte picks up through the expansion draft. Sure, it doesn't sound great, but possibly another future 1st-rounder from Charlotte as well might sweeten the deal. If Weisbrod knows that Grant won't be able to come back from his plague of injuries, shouldn't he look to dump the contract somewhere else. If Charlotte is serious about wanting the first pick, Grant Hill (or Juwan Howard) will be coming their way too. At forth we could pick up Biedrins, Andriuskevicius or one of the point guards available.
Another deal which might not be a bad idea is trading the number 1 for a team with multiple picks, such as Utah. New Jersey did this with Houston back in the day to draft Eddie Griffin, and look how New Jersey turned out from these 3 picks. Not to mention that Utah has the 14th, 16th and 21st pick we could possibly find some nice players. This could be a too little for the number 1 pick though, so we should look into acquiring another player from Utah. Remember that Utah has cap space, so they could add someone like Juwan Howard (a position they're looking to solidify). I'd be very interested in Kirilenko, but I doubt they would accept the 1st and Howard for Kirilenko and 2 of their picks. It would be nice though.
It's been mentioned that Portland could be willing to offer Abdur-Rahim and the 13th pick for Chicago's 3rd pick. I'm not sure how interested they would be in the first pick, but if Los Angeles sends out signs they want to draft Deng or Livingston, then Portland might look at acquring our pick (instead of the Bulls) to draft either player. The thing about this is that Abdur-Rahim has a large contract, and in order to make this trade work they would have to receive Grant Hill's contract most likely, something which I don't see Portland accepting.
Of course, instead of trading the pick we could always be happy with what we have and draft the likes of Dwight Howard or Emeka Okafor. I don't want the Magic to say straight off that we will draft Okafor without giving other players a look, you never know in these drafts.
I'd like to add that although ESPN and many other reporters are criticizing the depth of this class, remember last year when the same sources were saying that the 2003 draft was for three men, then the level dropped off significantly. Obviously they were proven wrong with stellar play from the likes of Wade, Hinrich, Bosh, Howard and Ford, to go with flashes of potential from Kaman, Cabarkapa, Pietrus, Barbosa, and others. Now the analysts are stating last years draft was one of the deepest in the last 10-15 years. So obviously, I'd just like to mention that such reports are usually unfounded, especially before workouts have really begun and are often proven wrong!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I forgot to add that it gets rid of Juwan Howard's terrible deal and Cato, Mobley, Frahm and Murray's deal would be finished in two years. If it works, you re-sign them, if not, let them walk and gain the capspace. If it doesn't work then you cap room and the expiring deal of Grant Hill (he would only have one year left) to move if you so choose.

At least this deal would give Orlando some flexibility. They need young players, but they also need people who can help them win.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Also this is a better team than just keeping T-Mac. It's not like Orlando is a title contender with him now anyway. You guys were the worst team in the NBA last year. 

This new team has a shot to get out of the first round and should be able to score in the offense deprived Eastern Conference.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Also this is a better team than just keeping T-Mac. It's not like Orlando is a title contender with him now anyway. You guys were the worst team in the NBA last year.
> 
> This new team has a shot to get out of the first round and should be able to score in the offense deprived Eastern Conference.


It's true, we would probably improve from last year with the line-up you mentioned, but we would also improve if we left it as is and made the necessary picks/pick ups in the offseason.
The thing is, there are certainly better offers out there for Tracy.

I'm not saying that the trade idea is bad, but I'm questioning the direction the Franchise will move in and whether or not we can get more for Tracy in the way of potential talent which would peek when we need it to (albeit in a few years). Personally, I'd rather go through another season or two of losing and then have a much stronger team when our talent develops than be a 7-8th sead in the playoffs time-and-time again. With the record of the Magic drafting around 15th (Hunter & Gaines) I don't think we have the talent evaluators to improve the team with mid-1st round picks.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

How do you know that team would be a 7th best team in the East though? 

They would go literally 11-12 deep with quality players. They would have big time scoring threats in Mobley and Francis. Murray, Radmanovic are two threats capable of going for 20 any game.

You would be glad to develop some young players, but would the fans want to go to those games. Remember you are not even in America. If they trade T-Mac and don't get much better than the organization would look much worse.

Why not have a team where you have a guy who is a star (Francis) and a bunch of very good players (Mobley, Radman, Murray, Okafor), then a bunch of solid role players (Duhon, Cato, Bogans, Stevenson). 

It would be like how the Kings are set up. A team of very good players and a lot of offensive firepower. Difference is, they would be better in the paint then the Kings with Cato and Okafor). 

Please tell me why the Orlando team couldn't compete with Miami for the division title (and a 3 seed) with the aforementioned team. If they trade T-Mac they need to improve significantly. This would do that for them.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> If he wants to be traded to Houston so bad, what about this deal for the Magic. Note this is only if Orlando is going to trade T-Mac, so don't jump all over me. If it doesn't happen, then it doesn't.
> 
> 
> ...


I like it for the most part, but let me interject some minor adjustments I would make for the benefit of the team, staying realistic of course. I like the Houston trade, I leave that as is. As for the Seattle trade, I make it Gooden and Lue for Daniels, Radmanovic and Frahm(works salary-wise). This enables us to move Franchise to the 2 spot, where he's better fit to play IMO. I then use the MLE on Adonal Foyle to add some defensive presence in the paint, and sign Massenburg to the LLE like you said. I draft Okafor at 1, Duhon and Ha Seung-Jin in the 2nd Round. This leaves us with a roster like this:

C - Kelvin Cato/Adonal Foyle/Ha Seung-Jin
PF - Emeka Okafor/Tony Massenburg/Zaza Pachulia
SF - Vladimir Radmanovic/Deshawn Stevenson/Keith Bogans
SG - Steve Francis/Cuttino Mobley/Richie Frahm
PG - Antonio Daniels/Chris Duhon

Mobley is an ideal 6th man IMO, great energy and great shooter with range. I like Daniels running our team, and his defense is very good as well. He's smart with the ball, and doesn't turn it over often. Francis would have a career year playing SG, and would lead this team into the playoffs. Radmanovic explodes, playing his natural position. Okafor, Cato and Foyle prove to be one of the best defensive front courts in the league, something you couldn't say about Orlando since the days of Shaquille O'Neal. Orlando also has a great bench now, with Mobley, Stevenson, Bogans and Duhon leading the way, and Foyle at the Center position. 

What do you think? Realistic? Better?


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

You must have taken some time to come up with this plan, but personally I don't really like it. I am also not a fan of Francis, Mobley, or Radmonivic. There is just too much change in one year. Also, while the interior defense would be vastly improved the perimeter defense would still suck. EDIT: You would also get very little post offense from this team. Another thing that concerns me is there are no guards taller than 6' 5". Just looking at this team there are not a lot of "winners." There are a lot of guys that can put up numbers but IMO they don't help their teams as much as it would seem. On this Orlando team, I see a lot of those guys. They include: Francis, Mobley, Radmonivic, and Flip. This is a talented team, but it is not realistic and more importantly I don't believe it would be that good either.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Either my plan or the Hobojoe's plan would work. This team needs to make changes or McGrady is just going to flat out walk. I gave Orlando a good way to markedly improve their talent and tradeable assets. 

If Orlando is still committed to wanting to run up and down the court for 48 minutes, then this is a good team for them. Plus with Mobley, Radman and Frahm (and Murray if you did my plan), this team would have good perimeter shooting (to excel in the halfcourt). 

When you do trades, it should never be the same way. I would change everything. Take adv. of the new found athleticism and speed and use that to the advantage. 

There is a lot of movement roster wise, but if T-Mac is traded or even if he stays, there will be a lot of roster movement anyway. How much post offense do they get from this team the way it is currently constructed anyway? Cato and Okafor can make dunks, short turnarounds and layups, if they are playing uptempo. 

Also hobojoe, what happened to Reece Gaines? Would he be the 3rd string PG if he is not traded to Seattle?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Either my plan or the Hobojoe's plan would work. This team needs to make changes or McGrady is just going to flat out walk. I gave Orlando a good way to markedly improve their talent and tradeable assets.
> 
> If Orlando is still committed to wanting to run up and down the court for 48 minutes, then this is a good team for them. Plus with Mobley, Radman and Frahm (and Murray if you did my plan), this team would have good perimeter shooting (to excel in the halfcourt).
> ...


True, Reece Gaines is the 3rd string PG since he's not traded to Seattle in my deal. I didn't have much of a problem with your plan, I just changed it around a bit, mainly to see Francis at SG rather than PG. Other than that, the changes I made were minor.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

It's an interesting proposal, and would make for a good team, but all in all, it's very unrealistic that the Magic would turn the team over so greatly. And I'm not quite sure if Seattle would do their trade. They are giving up much more than they are receiving.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

I agree with others. I dont like it, but I am not a big fan of Francis or Mobley myself. Francis IMO is extremely overrated and Mobley is a one-dimensional scorer.

Like someone else said, if Tmac is leaving, this team will be rebuilding. I doubt they will even try to put together any sort of winning team right off the bat. More likely, they'd go very young and try and get some guys with potential.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> How do you know that team would be a 7th best team in the East though?
> 
> They would go literally 11-12 deep with quality players. They would have big time scoring threats in Mobley and Francis. Murray, Radmanovic are two threats capable of going for 20 any game.
> ...


7th best sounded like a reasonable (possibly a bit pessimistic) result for such a lineup because I see the Pacers, Pistons, Nets, Heat and possibly Cavs & Knicks being better teams next season. Of course, we've seen how predictions can be crapshots.

The organization can't look much worse if you ask me, it doesn't get any worse than winning 21 games and finishing last. Sure, the fans might not have a choice though plus our attendance records don't look too pretty anyways. The fanbase is already dwindling, and the only worry that I have with trading McGrady is the resulting possible move from Orlando the team might be forced to make because of no new arena.

The reason I would rather have a young, talented team is so that in another 4 years when your mentioned lineup is older we don't go through the same struggles. I'd much rather win a championship in the next 10 years through rebuilding now than reach the playoffs but not make it deep for the next 5. It just makes sense that if McGrady is destined to leave, trade him for young talent which can mesh and grow as a team.

I also believe there are many better trade proposals out there in the Magics case such as the San Antonio and Phoenix ideas and I'm sure there will be others.

The team might go deep, true, but what use is being deep when players (Francis, Mobley) will whine about not getting there 40 minutes. This team might have deepness, ala the Kings, but it would not have that same talent level. Webber, Miller and Divac are all leaps and bounds above Okafor, Cato and Clark at the moment.

Sure, the team could realistically compete with the Heat without trading Tracy though (possibly), and probably by making this trade. But is that really what we want? Maybe it's just the direction I'm looking in, and I don't see that lineup ever winning anything meaningful.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

This trade is definitely realistic, and I see plenty of upsides for both teams. If T-Mac wants to leave, it may very well come down to this. It won't make this team great, but definitely good enough to make the playoffs.


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## gtownspur (Jun 1, 2004)

this is way better:

Philly gets Parker, Malik, 2 1strd picks each from (okafur) Orlando and San antonio.


San ANtonio gets Tmac, Samuel Dalembert, Eric Snow.

Orlando gets Iverson, Ginobilli, and nestorivich.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> If he wants to be traded to Houston so bad, what about this deal for the Magic. Note this is only if Orlando is going to trade T-Mac, so don't jump all over me. If it doesn't happen, then it doesn't.
> 
> 
> ...


Bump. HKF had it exactly right except he had Declercq instead of Lue and Gaines. Pretty damn impressive...


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