# Andrew Bogut



## CAnthony15 (Jun 14, 2003)

Ok, theres been a lot of talk about Andrew Bougt, that the Bucks need to draft him, becasue you always need to draft a big man. Well, heres what I think. Alot of websites are comparing him to Brad Miller or Vlade Divac. Now, with the number one overall pick, it is supposed to be a player that can be a cornerstone of your franchise for years. Divac and Miller are good players, but are theyplayers that can be a franchise cornerstone? Probably not. I think that they need to draft someone who will be a superstar like a Marvin Williams or Paul, or they should probably trade the pick to someone like Atlanta, which I think would be a better idea, because the Bucks are not that bad right now.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

Hoopshype compares Marvin Williams to Al Harrington


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## matt! (Feb 21, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Hoopshype compares Marvin Williams to Al Harrington


What, you don't see Al Harrington as the cornerstone to the franchise.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

To be honest, I don't think there are any cornerstones in this draft. Paul might be the closest, but nobody is going to pick him #1 with a talented 7' center and very hyped, long-armed UNC forward available. You also have to remember that the Bucks likely have their cornerstone in Redd. I wish they would pick Paul, but they have TJ Ford and need some big men.

I think you have to look at Bogut as being like Vlade/Miller but with just the right amount of Charles Barkley's attitude. I'd take him number one and never look back.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

When Bogut graded out at 7'0, that's when he became the No. 1 pick. If he were to grade out at 6'10 and be a PF instead, his stock probably could have dropped to even 3. However with his basketball skills at the 5, he'll be the No. 1 pick and rightfully so.

Bogut is the exact reason why I wonder what people watch, when they're evaluating talent. People told me Deron Williams would never be a top 5 selection and yet here he is two years later poised to go No. 4 to New Orleans. Sometimes guys are just basketball players. They just know how to play the game. They aren't overwhelming athletes, but every single HOF player or all-star isn't an overwhelming athlete. 

At the end of the day, this is a draft of basketball players, which is why Julius Hodge, Andrew Bogut, Sean May and Deron Williams will succeed on the pro level, because they understand the game, how to play it. You don't have to develop their basketball awareness. 

Quentin Richardson has been in the league for 5 years and still doesn't know how to play the game of basketball. Neither does Allen Iverson. Both are good players (with Iverson being a great albeit overrated player), but they'll never be focal points for a team winning, because they don't understand how to play with other guys and make it work IMO. 

Give me basketball players over athletes anyday of the week. Now if they're basketball playing athletes, well that's different.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

CAnthony15 said:


> Ok, theres been a lot of talk about Andrew Bougt, that the Bucks need to draft him, becasue you always need to draft a big man. Well, heres what I think. Alot of websites are comparing him to Brad Miller or Vlade Divac. Now, with the number one overall pick, it is supposed to be a player that can be a cornerstone of your franchise for years. Divac and Miller are good players, but are theyplayers that can be a franchise cornerstone? Probably not. I think that they need to draft someone who will be a superstar like a Marvin Williams or Paul, or they should probably trade the pick to someone like Atlanta, which I think would be a better idea, because the Bucks are not that bad right now.


he's a lot closer to tim duncan than he is to vlade or miller. lets remember bogut is coming out as a sophomore. i dont buy into all this espn bs that marvin williams is the best player in the draft, i like him but he's a 6-7 sf and i think accurately has been compared to a jamal mashburn although he isnt there yet. i think the way it came down with atlanta getting the #2 pick really put them in a bind with harrington,smith and childress. i would think they may actually go with a pg and you could see marvin dropping further than the top 3.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

rainman said:


> he's a lot closer to tim duncan than he is to vlade or miller. lets remember bogut is coming out as a sophomore. i dont buy into all this espn bs that marvin williams is the best player in the draft, i like him but he's a 6-7 sf and i think accurately has been compared to a jamal mashburn although he isnt there yet. i think the way it came down with atlanta getting the #2 pick really put them in a bind with harrington,smith and childress. i would think they may actually go with a pg and you could see marvin dropping further than the top 3.


You can't compare Bogut to Duncan......I mean, you can make comparisons like DeShawn Stevenson to Michael Jordan based on potential, but comparing a proven player that is still developing, and has great potential to a great NBA player is impossible...... :angel:


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Hoopshype compares Marvin Williams to Al Harrington


Theres you going by what others say again. Why don't you ever think or see for yourself? Pathetic.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

Those Comparisons are BS. And HKF's post is right on.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

rainman said:


> he's a lot closer to tim duncan than he is to vlade or miller. lets remember bogut is coming out as a sophomore. i dont buy into all this espn bs that marvin williams is the best player in the draft, i like him but he's a 6-7 sf and i think accurately has been compared to a jamal mashburn although he isnt there yet. i think the way it came down with atlanta getting the #2 pick really put them in a bind with harrington,smith and childress. i would think they may actually go with a pg and you could see marvin dropping further than the top 3.


Uh, try 6-9 230 pound SF with amazing athleticism, a jump shot, good FT %, heart, work ethic, unselfishness, and a ring, but other than that you're right, he's garbage.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Theres you going by what others say again. Why don't you ever think or see for yourself? Pathetic.


LOL...if people are going to use Bogut's comparisons against him, I am going to use Marvin's comparisons the same way.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Uh, try 6-9 230 pound SF with amazing athleticism, a jump shot, good FT %, heart, work ethic, unselfishness, and a ring, but other than that you're right, he's garbage.


SF's win championships in the NBA!!!!!


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> SF's win championships in the NBA!!!!!


When was the last time a center besides Shaq lead his team to a title?


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

DHarris34Phan said:


> You can't compare Bogut to Duncan......I mean, you can make comparisons like DeShawn Stevenson to Michael Jordan based on potential, but comparing a proven player that is still developing, and has great potential to a great NBA player is impossible...... :angel:


i make comparisons based on style of play,skill level and potential. certainly not on acomplishments. i think the two players have similar skill levels, both are great rebounders, duncan is a better defender, bogut is probably a better passer. you dont have to convince me of how good tim duncan is thats for sure.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> LOL...if people are going to use Bogut's comparisons against him, I am going to use Marvin's comparisons the same way.


Our comparisons are our comparisons based on what we saw. You admitadly have only seen Williams play a couple times. So your comparison is baseless and weak.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> When was the last time a center besides Shaq lead his team to a title?


When was the last time a SF lead his team to a title without a bigman?


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Our comparisons are our comparisons based on what we saw. You admitadly have only seen Williams play a couple times. So your comparison is baseless and weak.


No..most people get the comparisons about Bogut from nbadraft.net and draftexpress.com...you don't know how many times people have seen either play.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Uh, try 6-9 230 pound SF with amazing athleticism, a jump shot, good FT %, heart, work ethic, unselfishness, and a ring, . . .


. . . who disappeared in the three most important games in his life. He may end up being very good based on potential, but he scares me. I don't get excited about the Mashburn or Harrington comparisons either.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

HKF said:


> When Bogut graded out at 7'0, that's when he became the No. 1 pick. If he were to grade out at 6'10 and be a PF instead, his stock probably could have dropped to even 3. However with his basketball skills at the 5, he'll be the No. 1 pick and rightfully so.
> 
> Bogut is the exact reason why I wonder what people watch, when they're evaluating talent. People told me Deron Williams would never be a top 5 selection and yet here he is two years later poised to go No. 4 to New Orleans. Sometimes guys are just basketball players. They just know how to play the game. They aren't overwhelming athletes, but every single HOF player or all-star isn't an overwhelming athlete.
> 
> ...



Goddamn it. I was so close to agreeing with all of this until you had to take a dump on AI. AGGGHHHHH!!!!!

But yeah. A lot of draftnicks have kind of stopped looking at basketball players and started just looking at athletes.

Ricky Davis and Dwayne Wade are probably similiar players athletically. But Wade understands how to play basketball, Ricky Davis doesn't.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Reep said:


> . . . who disappeared in the three most important games in his life. He may end up being very good based on potential, but he scares me. I don't get excited about the Mashburn or Harrington comparisons either.



You obviously know nothing about Mashburn. He would be the unquestioned #1 pick in this draft. I am not sure Williams can get to his level.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> When was the last time a SF lead his team to a title without a bigman?


Larry Bird was pretty good, but there is no magic formula for titles, and you certainly don't NEED a dominant bigman to win one. Servicable guys like Bogut (14-10 players) can get you there. But as the Rockets have seen with Yao and McGrady (those two are 5 times better than the Redd Bogut combo) you need a little more talent to contend, something the Bucks don't have right now.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> You obviously know nothing about Mashburn. He would be the unquestioned #1 pick in this draft. I am not sure Williams can get to his level.


I told you, the only lasting image of Mashburn is the broken down Mashburn to so many. The Mashburn who came into the league and had 25.1 ppg his 3rd year, was a special player and the injuries just killed him.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> No..most people get the comparisons about Bogut from nbadraft.net and draftexpress.com...you don't know how many times people have seen either play.


Then those people like you need to watch more games before they come out with these half-baked comparisons. aI know that the majority of good posters on here watch just as many college games as pro games.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Goddamn it. I was so close to agreeing with all of this until you had to take a dump on AI. AGGGHHHHH!!!!!
> 
> But yeah. A lot of draftnicks have kind of stopped looking at basketball players and started just looking at athletes.
> 
> Ricky Davis and Dwayne Wade are probably similiar players athletically. But Wade understands how to play basketball, Ricky Davis doesn't.


I just don't like AI's game. It doesn't mean he isn't a great player, but I wouldn't want to play with the guy or have him on my team.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Larry Bird was pretty good, but there is no magic formula for titles, and you certainly don't NEED a dominant bigman to win one. Servicable guys like Bogut (14-10 players) can get you there. But as the Rockets have seen with Yao and McGrady (those two are 5 times better than the Redd Bogut combo) you need a little more talent to contend, something the Bucks don't have right now.


Bogut is gonna make Yao look like a gangly, weak 7-6 dude that can only shoot when he isn't in motion or even leaning in any particular direction. Oh wait, that's what Yao looks like now. If Jason Collins can turn Yao into his *****, Bogut is going to eat him alive.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Larry Bird was pretty good, but there is no magic formula for titles, and you certainly don't NEED a dominant bigman to win one. Servicable guys like Bogut (14-10 players) can get you there. But as the Rockets have seen with Yao and McGrady (those two are 5 times better than the Redd Bogut combo) you need a little more talent to contend, something the Bucks don't have right now.


Bird had 2 Hall of Famers in McHale and Parish...it isn't like he was doing it alone....NBA History shows me that you DO need one.....

1949, 1950- Minneapolis Lakers (George Mikan)
1951- Rochester Royals (Mikan was out for series, Lakers were best team)
1952-54- Minnepolis Lakers (George Mikan)
1956- Philadelphia Warriors (Nell Johnson)
1958- St. Louis Hawks (Bob Pettitt)
1959-66- Boston Celtics (Bill Russell)
1967- Philadelphia 76ers (Wilt Chamberlain)
1968, 69- Boston Celtics (Bill Russell)
1970- New York Knicks (Willis Reed)
1971- Milwaukee Bucks (Kareem Abdul Jabaar)
1972- Los Angeles Lakers (Wilt Chamberlain)
1973- New York Knicks (Willis Reed)
1977- Portland Trail Blazers (Bill Walton)
1978- Washington Bullets (Wes Unseld)
1980- Los Angeles Lakers (Kareem Abdul-Jabaar)
1981- Boston Celtics (Parish, McHale, Carr)
1982- Los Angeles Lakers (Kareem)
1983- Philadelphia 76ers (Moses Malone)
1984- Boston Celtics (Parish, McHale)
1985- LA Lakers (Kareem)
1986- Boston Celtics (Parish, McHale)
1987-88- LA Lakers (Kareem)
1989-90- Detroit Pistons (Laimbeer, Rodman, Mahorn)
1994-95- Houston Rockets (Hakeem Olajawon)
1999- San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan, David Robinson)
2000-02- LA Lakers (Shaquille O'Neal)
2003- San Antionio Spurs (Tim Duncan)
2004- Detroit Pistons (Wallaces)


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> Bogut is gonna make Yao look like a gangly, weak 7-6 dude that can only shoot when he isn't in motion or even leaning in any particular direction. Oh wait, that's what Yao looks like now. If Jason Collins can turn Yao into his *****, Bogut is going to eat him alive.


LOL, can't wait to see you eat these words.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> LOL, can't wait to see you eat these words.


Can't wait to see Yao falling to the floor w/ Bogut hovering over him.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Bird had 2 Hall of Famers in McHale and Parish...it isn't like he was doing it alone....NBA History shows me that you DO need one.....
> 
> 1949, 1950- Minneapolis Lakers (George Mikan)
> 1951- Rochester Royals (Mikan was out for series, Lakers were best team)
> ...


That was a waste of space. And did any of those bigs win by themselves? No, they had stars around them at other positions as well. One position isn't anymore important than another. Its a team game where all 5 guys must compliment one another. A good big doesn't guarantee sh*t.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> That was a waste of space. And did any of those bigs win by themselves? No, they had stars around them at other positions as well. One position isn't anymore important than another. Its a team game where all 5 guys must compliment one another. A good big doesn't guarantee sh*t.


But not having a good big sure does guarantee ****, unless you've got Jordan, and even then you need a decent big (HoGrant, DRodman).


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> Can't wait to see Yao falling to the floor w/ Bogut hovering over him.


Bogut weighs 240, Yao weighs 310, who do you think will be on the floor? Do your homework next time before you come to class son!


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> That was a waste of space. And did any of those bigs win by themselves? No, they had stars around them at other positions as well. One position isn't anymore important than another. Its a team game where all 5 guys must compliment one another. A good big doesn't guarantee sh*t.


How many teams during these years had great SFs and no bigmen? ALOT. 

Of course they didn't win the titles by themselves, but the teams that won the titles had a dominant bigmen, which leads me to believe that you need one to win a championship.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> But not having a good big sure does guarantee ****, unless you've got Jordan, and even then you need a decent big (HoGrant, DRodman).


Do you take a decent big with the number one pick?


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Bogut weighs 240, Yao weighs 310, who do you think will be on the floor? Do your homework next time before you come to class son!


Yes, weight is the sole determinant here. You're the one that needs to go to class. Logic class.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Do you take a decent big with the number one pick?


Or do you take the Antawn Jamison-clone with the #1 pick? I would take my chances on the cornerstone bigman.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Do you take a decent big with the number one pick?


No you take the guy who looks like he's got 20, 10 and 5 potential. His name is Andrew Bogut.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> Yes, weight is the sole determinant here. You're the one that needs to go to class. Logic class.


I'll take a easy going 310 pounder with 6 inches on someone over a 240 pound dude with a little temper.


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

Jamal Mashburn had to potential to be a Hall of Fame SF before his body just broke down on him. Sad, really.

This thread is the two biggest nonsensical homers on the whole draft board going head to head, I don't care other than to point out that Mashburn was a heck of a player and to lay off him.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Or do you take the Antawn Jamison-clone with the #1 pick? I would take my chances on the cornerstone bigman.


I'd take an all-star like Jamison over a Chris Kaman/Illgauskas clone.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Jeez, you'd think Marvin Williams was Lebron James. He's not.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I'll take a easy going 310 pounder with 6 inches on someone over a 240 pound dude with a little temper.


Do you even watch Yao play? He's on the floor constantly.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

HKF said:


> Jeez, you'd think Marvin Williams was Lebron James. He's not.


Exactly.....unless there is a LeBron James available, you ALWAYS take the bigman.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> Jeez, you'd think Marvin Williams was Lebron James. He's not.


I don't even think he'll be a superstar, but an allstar like Jamison and Marion yes. Thats not even being a homer or anything. Thats just from what I've seen.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I don't even think he'll be a superstar, but an allstar like Jamison and Marion yes. Thats not even being a homer or anything. Thats just from what I've seen.


Someone named "MarvinWilliams#1in05" is claiming that they aren't being a homer on the subject of Marvin Williams?


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Exactly.....unless there is a LeBron James available, you ALWAYS take the bigman.


Obviously were never gonna agree, so why don't we just call it a day. But wouldn't it be funny as hell if the Bucks did draft Marvin, then I'd end up having to be one of your fellow Buck fans.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Obviously were never gonna agree, so why don't we just call it a day. But wouldn't it be funny as hell if the Bucks did draft Marvin, then I'd end up having to be one of your fellow Buck fans.


That would be great...another Bucks fan.... :biggrin:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I don't even think he'll be a superstar, but an allstar like Jamison and Marion yes. Thats not even being a homer or anything. Thats just from what I've seen.


If Marvin is becoming Antwan Jamison or Shawn Marion, in terms of comparable ability on the pro level, then why is he a top 5 pick? Yes, those guys are paid the max, but for their games they are definitely not worth it. 

I sure as hell hope my Mashburn comparison is right, because Mash had the talent to be the best SF in the game (if healthy). If he's Jamison or Marion in terms of his pro playing days, I'd be disappointed in him as a No. 1 or 2 pick to be quite honest. 

Neither of those two guys would you ever build around. They need to be the 3rd best player on the team.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> Someone named "MarvinWilliams#1in05" is claiming that they aren't being a homer on the subject of Marvin Williams?


Yup, when you've played against many of these prospects, you do develope a certain admiration/bias toward them, if you don't like the name fine, but its rather easy to right me off as a homer rather than trying to combat what I'm trying to say.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> If Marvin is becoming Antwan Jamison or Shawn Marion, in terms of comparable ability on the pro level, then why is he a top 5 pick? Yes, those guys are paid the max, but for their games they are definitely not worth it.
> 
> I sure as hell hope my Mashburn comparison is right, because Mash had the talent to be the best SF in the game (if healthy). If he's Jamison or Marion in terms of his pro playing days, I'd be disappointed in him as a No. 1 or 2 pick to be quite honest.
> 
> Neither of those two guys would you ever build around. They need to be the 3rd best player on the team.


Put Marion in this years draft right now and he's the unquestioned #1 pick and you know it.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

HKF said:


> Neither of those two guys would you ever build around. They need to be the 3rd best player on the team.


And with Redd (hopefully), and Ford (Hopefully), we would have our PG, SG, and C in place...with alot of capspace to work with......Bogut fits with the Bucks ALOT better.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Put Marion in this years draft right now and he's the unquestioned #1 pick and you know it.


Any draft that has Shawn Marion as the No. 1 pick in the draft is the weakest draft in decades (ala the 2000 draft). See your problem is, you're looking at Shawn Marion now, the one we see playing this season. The Shawn Marion coming out of JUCO was not and never will be the No. 1 player in the draft.

Again, if you're picking No. 1 in the draft, you want to pick franchise level talent. Any GM that would take Shawn Marion over the PG's in this draft, not even Bogut, would be out of a job in 2 years. Marion as the face of a franchise? :hurl:


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> Any draft that has Shawn Marion as the No. 1 pick in the draft is the weakest draft in decades (ala the 2000 draft). See your problem is, you're looking at Shawn Marion now, the one we see playing this season. The Shawn Marion coming out of JUCO was not and never will be the No. 1 player in the draft.
> 
> Again, if you're picking No. 1 in the draft, you want to pick franchise level talent. Any GM that would take Shawn Marion over the PG's in this draft, not even Bogut, would be out of a job in 2 years. Marion as the face of a franchise? :hurl:


Any number one pick that puts up his kind of numbers throughout his career would be considered a success. Olowokandi, Joe Smith, Kwame Brown, those are your disapointments. How can a 20-9-2-2-2 player be considered anything but a success at number one? He's a hell of a player, and could easily be a franchise player if he wasn't sharing the ball with Nash, Amare, and JJ.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If you think Marion would be a franchise player on a winning team with him leading that team, well there really isn't any reason to keep talking to you. We obviously have two different views on who Marion is as a player. 

Not all statistics are created equally. A man who can't create his own offense off the dribble is going to be a franchise player on the wing? :whatever:


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Any number one pick that puts up his kind of numbers throughout his career would be considered a success. Olowokandi, Joe Smith, Kwame Brown, those are your disapointments. How can a 20-9-2-2-2 player be considered anything but a success at number one? He's a hell of a player, and could easily be a franchise player if he wasn't sharing the ball with Nash, Amare, and JJ.



One day, my dream is for posters on this board to ignore numbers and look at actual on the court impact. Bogut is going to have more of an impact then Marion has right now at his peak.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> If you think Marion would be a franchise player on a winning team with him leading that team, well there really isn't any reason to keep talking to you. We obviously have two different views on who Marion is as a player.
> 
> Not all statistics are created equally. A man who can't create his own offense off the dribble is going to be a franchise player on the wing? :whatever:


You really never know how a player will fail or succeed until you see him in that situation, both of us are speculating, and neither of us can be %100 sure we are correct.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> One day, my dream is for posters on this board to ignore numbers and look at actual on the court impact. Bogut is going to have more of an impact then Marion has right now at his peak.


Numbers mostly define your impact on the court. There are many hustle plays that don't count, and how players do in the clutch, but I don't think his numbers are meaningless.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> One day, my dream is for posters on this board to ignore numbers and look at actual on the court impact. Bogut is going to have more of an impact then Marion has right now at his peak.


Is that a Bogut compliment I hear from you MemphisX? Awesome. :banana:


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> You really never know how a player will fail or succeed until you see him in that situation, both of us are speculating, and neither of us can be %100 sure we are correct.



He was in that position last seaon...led to the lottery.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Marion and Jamison comparisons are garbage. Neither has the handles or shot that Marvin has, and just from watching him play you can tell his game is made for the NBA, he may not have the immediate impact Bogut has, but he will be the best player from this draft.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Put Marion in this years draft right now and he's the unquestioned #1 pick and you know it.



That's hilarious.
But I'm going to be nice and say from what I've seen Marvin Williams will be more Jamal Mashburn than Shawn Marion.

Jamal Mashburn coming out of college is someone who could be a number 1 pick in some draft years. I think he'd still get passed over in favor of Bogut. But I hope for the sake of whoever does draft Williams that he is more like Mashburn.

Mashburn was a franchise player you could build around, Marion is not and will never be that.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

arenas809 said:


> Marion and Jamison comparisons are garbage. Neither has the handles or shot that Marvin has, and just from watching him play you can tell his game is made for the NBA, he may not have the immediate impact Bogut has, but he will be the best player from this draft.


I wouldn't say Marvins handles look that great, but then again we never really saw them last year.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

How about this?
Marvin Williams is Shawn Marion meets Lamar Odom.


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

basically you're (marvinwilliams#1in2005) saying that if phoenix offered shawn marion for the #1 pick in this years draft, milwaukee should accept. that's ridiculous.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> One day, my dream is for posters on this board to ignore numbers and look at actual on the court impact. Bogut is going to have more of an impact then Marion has right now at his peak.


I support that dream, sir.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

Bogut is already a superstar...even one of his threads turn out huge.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

HKF

You might really like Mash, and he certainly was a tremendous scorer who was very hard to defend.

But really, he is/was not a better player than Antawn Jamison. And he was never a player you would build a franchise around, IMO.

And Mash played very well until quite recently with the Hornets. In fact his ONLY time as an all star was a couple years back in New Orleans.

Jamison has also had his injury problems.

Career numbers

Mash, 19.1ppg on 41.6% shooting. Jamison, 19.2 on 46.1%.

Neither are/were good 3P shooters. Mash was better, kind of, but I'm not convinced that the 2200+ treys he attempted, helped the team, at a 34.5% clip. Neither of did Jamison at only 32.3%, but at least he only shot 890. (Mash has played 32% more minutes).

Mash was a much better player after a stint in Miami helped him with his decision making. Indeed, he was so talented that he was capable of almost anything - but like a lot of multi-talented players, lost sight of what he should do. He was not a good rebounder early in his career, did not pass teh ball very well, turned it over a lot, and IMO, was not a very good defender.

Later in his career he rebounded better, found his teammates better, and forced less shots.

Overall, he was certainly a better passer than Antawn, (4.0 vs 1.7, but with twice the turnovers) Certainly he was not as good a rebounder. (5.4 vs 7.3) Antawn has notched more than twices as many offensive boards per game over his career.

I put them on par defensively, and average.

Mashburn is really a little like Antoine Walker, but less severe. I would not want to build a team around him, and neither did any NBA teams.

As far as Marvin Williams goes, I think he's going to be a better rebounder than Mash, and a better jump shooter and shot blocker than either of them. I strongly doubt he ever passes the ball as well as Mash.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Mashburn was better than Jamison. Jamison has never been as injury prone as Mash. Check the first 3 years of Mash's career. Compare the skillset. Mash has been injured basically his entire career. You bringing out numbers means what? Not a damn thing. I'm telling you, how I see them play.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

You crazy if you think Jamison is better than Mashburn.

Mashburn put up good numbers despite being perpetually injured. I would have loved to see what his whole career would have been like.

This is a guy who came into the league as a star.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

HKF said:


> Mashburn was better than Jamison. Jamison has never been as injury prone as Mash. Check the first 3 years of Mash's career. Compare the skillset. Mash has been injured basically his entire career. You bringing out numbers means what? Not a damn thing. I'm telling you, how I see them play.


So Mash had flash? Who cares. It's performance that counts.

Mash missed only 5 games his first 2 seasons. Antawn missed 75.

Yes, Mash then had 3 terrible years for hurts, but followed that by having 3 of 4 seasons essentially injury free, including his allstar campaign in 02-03 at age 30. 

Antawn had 4 healthy years, and then missed 14 games + playoffs last year.

There is little evidence to show that injuries impaired the quality of Mash's play, until 03-04 when he was 31. They did cost him a lot of quantity.

In Antawn's first healthy season, he notched 25 and 9.

Mash twice scored 50 points in a game. Antawn twice scored 51.

There is no factual reason to suggest that Mash is/was a noticeably better player than Jamison. 

Furthermore, the evidence suggests that Marvin Williams will be more like Antawn than Mash.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Jamison is more of a PF than a SF. You keep sighting statistics and let me ask you, how many NBA games you get in Canada? I've seen Mash since Kentucky, I know what I'm talking about. Jamison's biggest claim to fame was his ability to get back off the floor on rebounds quickly. You obviously have no frame of reference for how good Mashburn was coming out of Kentucky. 

Your evidence doesn't suggest ****. Only an idiot would want Jamison over a healthy Mashburn. Jamison hasn't done dick in the playoffs or even been good enough to lead a team ever. Same can't be said for Mashburn.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Pure Scorer said:


> basically you're (marvinwilliams#1in2005) saying that if phoenix offered shawn marion for the #1 pick in this years draft, milwaukee should accept. that's ridiculous.


That's absolutely true. Any team would be retarded to turn down a proven superstar player like Shawn Marion for unproven guys without that superstar potential you want in a #1. Marion is by far better than anything the Bucks could get in this draft and they absolutely should take Marion for the #1 if it was offered.


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

Nimreitz said:


> That's absolutely true. Any team would be retarded to turn down a proven superstar player like Shawn Marion for unproven guys without that superstar potential you want in a #1. Marion is by far better than anything the Bucks could get in this draft and they absolutely should take Marion for the #1 if it was offered.


There's a problem in that line of thinking. Shawn Marion isn't a superstar.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

Nimreitz said:


> That's absolutely true. Any team would be retarded to turn down a proven superstar player like Shawn Marion for unproven guys without that superstar potential you want in a #1. Marion is by far better than anything the Bucks could get in this draft and they absolutely should take Marion for the #1 if it was offered.


That is absurd. Bogut is the best Center Prospect to come along since Tim Duncan, and you think the Bucks should trade him for Marion? A #3 guy?


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

HKF said:


> Jamison is more of a PF than a SF. You keep sighting statistics and let me ask you, how many NBA games you get in Canada? I've seen Mash since Kentucky, I know what I'm talking about. Jamison's biggest claim to fame was his ability to get back off the floor on rebounds quickly. You obviously have no frame of reference for how good Mashburn was coming out of Kentucky.
> 
> Your evidence doesn't suggest ****. Only an idiot would want Jamison over a healthy Mashburn. Jamison hasn't done dick in the playoffs or even been good enough to lead a team ever. Same can't be said for Mashburn.


HKF, your passion is obvious, but it does not pass for reasoning, nor even rhetoric.

Go ahead, attack my nationality, it may be the only point you have.

What's funny is, I don't have a problem with someone saying that Mash is a LITTLE better than Jamison in the NBA, as long as they can see that its debatable. 

But Antawn Jamison was clearly a BETTER collegiate player! So maybe you spent so much time in love with the Wildcats, you couldn't catch any Tar Heel games?

Jamison is the only player in NCAA history to be a first-team ACC allstar as a freshman, soph and junior. He played in the tournie all 3 years. He was consensus Player of the Year as a junior. He helped lead UNC to an upset ACC title as a soph & a Final Four appearance; had a 20 rebound game in the tournie as a freshman to upset the Terps. As a junior, the first post Dean Smith year, the were ranked #1 and got to the final 4. 

Mash was very, very good in college, but never won a title, and was never Player of the Year. His college numbers weren't as good as Jamison's, but I won't bore you with that either, since I know you don't care.

I don't expect to change your mind. But, perhaps, you could acknowledge that I am not out of mine. You know, that there might be room for a legitimate difference of opinion?


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

Personally, I don't think the difference between Jamison and Mashburn is that big. But i don't consider Jamison as ever being a true #1 option on a team, while I could see Mashburn easily fitting that role. That's where the biggest difference lies in my opinion, as mashburn could create for himself much better than Jamison.


As for nimreitz...i really hope you were being sarcastic.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> That is absurd. Bogut is the best Center Prospect to come along since Tim Duncan, and you think the Bucks should trade him for Marion? A #3 guy?


He's done nothing to prove he's the best center to come along since Duncan. Dominating in a weak *** conference doesn't mean crap. Chris Kaman put up similar numbers and played a very similar style of ball in college. Is he also a great center? Hell No! The only reason Bogut is so hyped is because this is the weakest draft class in the last 10 years, and there's nobody else to hype. When are you guys gonna figure out that a slow white center with zero athleticism, and weighs a pathetic 240 pounds will be absolutely garbage in the league? This is gonna be very amusing.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> He's done nothing to prove he's the best center to come along since Duncan. Dominating in a weak *** conference doesn't mean crap. Chris Kaman put up similar numbers and played a very similar style of ball in college. Is he also a great center? Hell No! The only reason Bogut is so hyped is because this is the weakest draft class in the last 10 years, and there's nobody else to hype. When are you guys gonna figure out that a slow white center with zero athleticism, and weighs a pathetic 240 pounds will be absolutely garbage in the league? This is gonna be very amusing.


He dominated against every team he played against this year (including several bigtime non-conference games). He played great in the Olympics, including against Tim Duncan. Hell, he's dominated at every level he's ever played at. People that think he's some white stiff are totally off base. I love the people who talk about his "bad games" (Kentucky, his conference championship game). "Bad games" where he scored 20 points and grabbed 10+ rebounds while his teammates struggled to get him the ball? Wtf? He's gonna make Chris Kaman look like Chris Kaman. Anyone who compares him to Chris Kaman is just looking at stats. Kaman doesn't have even half of his BBIQ, and that's what wins in this league, basketball smarts. Bogut's hands, footwork, and passing are leaps and bounds ahead of any Center propect in years. Its gonna be fun watching you eat your words. Bogut is the real deal.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> He dominated against every team he played against this year (including several bigtime non-conference games). He played great in the Olympics, including against Tim Duncan. Hell, he's dominated at every level he's ever played at. People that think he's some white stiff are totally off base. I love the people who talk about his "bad games" (Kentucky, his conference championship game). "Bad games" where he scored 20 points and grabbed 10+ rebounds while his teammates struggled to get him the ball? Wtf? He's gonna make Chris Kaman look like Chris Kaman. Anyone who compares him to Chris Kaman is just looking at stats. Kaman doesn't have even half of his BBIQ, and that's what wins in this league, basketball smarts. Bogut's hands, footwork, and passing are leaps and bounds ahead of any Center propect in years. Its gonna be fun watching you eat your words. Bogut is the real deal.


White stiff still, and you can't say anything to disprove it. Kaman put up great numbers in a crappy conference, Kaman played with a mean streak in college, Kaman is a giant white stiff like every other white center in the league. You think Bogut will be the exception? LMFAO


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> White stiff still, and you can't say anything to disprove it. Kaman put up great numbers in a crappy conference, Kaman played with a mean streak in college, Kaman is a giant white stiff like every other white center in the league. You think Bogut will be the exception? LMFAO


No...I guess we can't say anything to prove he isn't white. But there is more than enough evidence to say he won't be a stiff.

Tell me what Kamen did on the International Circuit.....did he do good? What awards did Kamen win?

I don't think Nenad Krstic is a big white stiff. Bogut has a very simliar game to Krstic, but is more developed at this age, and plays with a meaner streak. If Krstic is a stiff, then putting up 18 and 7 against Shaq (at age 21) in the playoffs must be a bad thing....LOL.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> No...I guess we can't say anything to prove he isn't white. But there is more than enough evidence to say he won't be a stiff.
> 
> Tell me what Kamen did on the International Circuit.....did he do good? What awards did Kamen win?
> 
> I don't think Nenad Krstic is a big white stiff. Bogut has a very simliar game to Krstic, but is more developed at this age, and players with a meaner streak. If Krstic is a stiff, then putting up 18 and 7 against Shaq (at age 21) in the playoffs must be a bad thing....LOL.


Kaman never had the opportunity to play against the weak foreign talent that Bogut faced off against. But I'm sure he would have put up the same numbers Bogut did against that sorry talent overseas, thats right sorry talent. Bogut wasn't playing against the worlds best the majority of the time overseas. Most of his time was spent dominating weaker opponents. What exactly do college awards prove? Ask a couple Heisman trophy winners that one. You're right, nothing can change the fact that he's white, slow, unathletic, and weighs 240 pounds.


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## Cammo (May 24, 2005)

> Kaman never had the opportunity to play against the weak foreign talent that Bogut faced off against. But I'm sure he would have put up the same numbers Bogut did against that sorry talent overseas, thats right sorry talent.


Weak foreign talent? So the Olympics, which houses the best players in the world, including Tim Duncan is weak talent? Ok then :banghead: You sound like one of those morons who was calling Dirk a big white stiff upon his drafting, im sure he still is in your warped eyes. The way you dismiss Bogut's talent so easily despite all his accomplishments and the overwhelming amount of people and experts who think that he is going to be a good player in the NBA is simply amusing, take your head our of your a$$.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Bogut wasn't playing against the worlds best the majority of the time overseas. Most of his time was spent dominating weaker opponents.


The same time Bogut was winning the 2003 World Junior Championships, Marvin Williams was leading his High School team to a .500 record....I think that Bogut accomplished far more against better talent Internationally than Marvin ever did in HS.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

The weak *** conference theory is stupid....If his #'s were skewed because he was in such a weak conference why was he voted on as player of the year...?

How can anyone compare him to Chris Kaman?....Did Kaman shoot the ball from outside, have the footwork, the passing ability, the floor presence, the rebounding ability or have the kind of intensity Bogut had as just a SOPHOMORE in college?......nope, didn't think so......and MarvinWilliams fan guy, why do you disregard other posts that dispell your negative theories towards Bogut?....because you know your wrong......

I don't really think this is even about your hatred for Bogut, this is more about your obsession for Marvin Williams and it irks you that Bogut will be picked ahead of your boy Marvin.....

You've said all you can say about how you THINK Bogut will play in the NBA, now you should sit back and wait for the season to begin so you can see whether he is this big stiff that you make him out to be or if he really is the polished future dominating Center that all the NBA scouts, GM's and basketball enthusiasts are making him out to be.....Personally I think he will be a hell of a ballplayer.....

And BTW, its not like I'm some Marvin hater, I'm not....I think he will be a future all-star in the league and even has superstar potential, but I feel the same way about Bogut.....Its weird how some people feel like they have to pick one over the other, when both of them can possibly become great players respectively...


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Pure Scorer said:


> Personally, I don't think the difference between Jamison and Mashburn is that big. But i don't consider Jamison as ever being a true #1 option on a team, while I could see Mashburn easily fitting that role. That's where the biggest difference lies in my opinion, as mashburn could create for himself much better than Jamison.
> 
> 
> As for nimreitz...i really hope you were being sarcastic.



Yeah exactly. You could put Mash on that elbow or in the post, and he could score 9 times out of 10 when you needed it. Mashburn may have had one of the most unstoppable moves of the last 10 years. There was nothing you could do with that high post of his. He could dish the ball out of that spot, or score. And when he had it going on, it was just ridiculous. I remember against Philly a few years back, he torched the Sixers with like one hand just using that move. I think it was his shooting hand too. The Sixers tried putting everyone on him, but he was just killing them from that spot.

The only thing that made no sense in his career was the Miami years. I don't know why he had so much trouble in Miami. But after he left Miami that was when he kind of turned the corner in his career. So I guess it was good in the long term.


It's just terrible that he had to end his career prematurely for what exposed itself as a mickey mouse organization.

Mash may have been my favorite college basketball player. Him, Iverson, and that like year of Lamar Odom. Those Kentucky teams he was on, because of him, used to just roll through opponents. He pretty much made Kentucky what it is today, because they had really fallen off before he and Pitino got going. Travis Ford, right?


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> He's done nothing to prove he's the best center to come along since Duncan. Dominating in a weak *** conference doesn't mean crap. Chris Kaman put up similar numbers and played a very similar style of ball in college. Is he also a great center? Hell No! The only reason Bogut is so hyped is because this is the weakest draft class in the last 10 years, and there's nobody else to hype. When are you guys gonna figure out that a slow white center with zero athleticism, and weighs a pathetic 240 pounds will be absolutely garbage in the league? This is gonna be very amusing.


Chris Kaman's sophomore season at Central Michigan:
Year . P College . MPG FG% 3P% FT% Rpg Apg to/g bpg spg PPG
01-02 C Michigan 25.2 61.4 0.0 65.0 8.3 0.9 2.9 1.6 0.4 11.8

Among the things you will note, no 3P shots, and 3 turnovers per assist. Only played 25mpg due mostly to foul trouble. Under 12ppg, with 8.3 rebs.

This was a very weak draft year, by the way, so should we be surprised Kaman didn't garner unanimous collge Player of the Year?

I think even MW can agree, this does not resemble Bogut's sophomore season in the least.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

OK, for all you Bogut nut-jockers, please name me the last white center with no athleticism who was a star in the league? You have to go all the way back to Bill Walton. White, frail and unathletic= trouble in the league, how can you ignore this kind of history? Bogut may very well be a solid NBA player in his prime (14-10) but don't you want a star with your first pick, not just a solid player?


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## OPMSm0k3r (May 25, 2005)

I was rooting for Bogut until he started talking trash. His attitude now bothers me and for that matter alone, I hope he gets posterized in the NBA. I just don't see how you can talk trash without ever playing in an NBA game...that isn't right.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> OK, for all you Bogut nut-jockers, please name me the last white center with no athleticism who was a star in the league? You have to go all the way back to Bill Walton. White, frail and unathletic= trouble in the league, how can you ignore this kind of history? Bogut may very well be a solid NBA player in his prime (14-10) but don't you want a star with your first pick, not just a solid player?


Well, assuming that All-Stars are "stars", you would have Ilgauskas and Brad Miller.

Part of your problem may be that you think a 20ppg wing is worth 6ppg more than a 14ppg center. All things being equal, a 14ppg center is likely worth more. Same sort of thing goes for point guards, to a lesser degree.

There is a reason why basketball teams play with centers, instead of just wing players. There are lots and lots of wings capable of 20ppg.

Its the same reason why, in baseball, you put up with catchers and shortstops who hit a lot less than first basemen; and why if you get a catcher or shortstop who can hit like a first-baseman they are invaluable. There just aren't that many athletes available who can do those jobs, so the odds of getting one who is also being offensively are much reduced.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> OK, for all you Bogut nut-jockers, please name me the last white center with no athleticism who was a star in the league? You have to go all the way back to Bill Walton. White, frail and unathletic= trouble in the league, how can you ignore this kind of history?


Nenad Krstic is an up and coming white center, and had a great rookie season....if they could do it all over, he would be a top 5 pick in 2002.....

Zydrunas Illguaskas and Brad Miller are both AllStars, and were not as nearly developed as Bogut is at the age of 20.



> Bogut may very well be a solid NBA player in his prime (14-10) but don't you want a star with your first pick, not just a solid player?


That's the thing...we have no idea if Marvin is going to be a star either....it's not like he is the 2nd coming of LeBron James. If both are going to be a gamble, I am gambling on the big man any day of the week.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Nenad Krstic is an up and coming white center, and had a great rookie season....if they could do it all over, he would be a top 5 pick in 2002.....
> 
> Zydrunas Illguaskas and Brad Miller are both AllStars, and were not as nearly developed as Bogut is at the age of 20.
> 
> ...


An allstar doesn't make you a star when the center position is depleted as it is.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Kaman never had the opportunity to play against the weak foreign talent that Bogut faced off against. But I'm sure he would have put up the same numbers Bogut did against that sorry talent overseas, thats right sorry talent. Bogut wasn't playing against the worlds best the majority of the time overseas. Most of his time was spent dominating weaker opponents. What exactly do college awards prove? Ask a couple Heisman trophy winners that one. You're right, nothing can change the fact that he's white, slow, unathletic, and weighs 240 pounds.


You are so biased it isn't ridiculous to even engage in a dialog w/ you. Kaman would have done the same things? And you know this, how? Because they're both white? What a joke.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> You are so biased it isn't ridiculous to even engage in a dialog w/ you. Kaman would have done the same things? And you know this, how? Because they're both white? What a joke.


No, because they are the same player on the court. The joke is the fact that a white center with no athleticism and a 240 pound frame may be the first overall pick!


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

Fyi, Marvin Williams jumps a whole 1 and 1/2 inch higher than Bogut does. And Bogut is 4 inches taller.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

SeaNet said:


> Fyi, Marvin Williams jumps a whole 1 and 1/2 inch higher than Bogut does. And Bogut is 4 inches taller.


Those Mashburn comparisons are looking better than better each day. :biggrin:


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

SeaNet said:


> Fyi, Marvin Williams jumps a whole 1 and 1/2 inch higher than Bogut does. And Bogut is 4 inches taller.


And Bogut is a white stiff....I wonder what that makes Marvin?


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Anyone who still thinks Bogut is a terrible athelete should take a look at the combine results. He's great for his size and will surprise a lot of the haters.


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## Amplifier (Feb 7, 2005)

To anyone who hadn't read. Bogut has a 33 1/2" vert, M.Williams is at 35", and G.Green is at 39".


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> Fyi, Marvin Williams jumps a whole 1 and 1/2 inch higher than Bogut does. And Bogut is 4 inches taller.


If you think vertical jumping is the only facet of being an athletic player then you're stupider than I thought!


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> And Bogut is a white stiff....I wonder what that makes Marvin?


Marvin also weighs 10 pounds less than scrawny *** Andrew and he's 4 inches shorter!


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Marvin also weighs 10 pounds less than scrawny *** Andrew and he's 4 inches shorter!


Bogut weighs 250, and Marvin weights 228...last time I checked that was a 22 pound difference.

The fact that Bogut can jump that high is very telling for the people that are calling him unathletic....

Comparing to Emeka Okafor and Dwight Howard of last year:

Dwight Howard 7 reps 35.5" 11.21 sec.
Emeka Okafor 22 reps 34" 12.32 sec.
Andrew Bogut 13 reps 33.5" 12.06 sec. 

According to these numbers, Bogut is very similar to these guys athleticley, and is an inch taller than both of them.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

SeaNet said:


> Fyi, Marvin Williams jumps a whole 1 and 1/2 inch higher than Bogut does. And Bogut is 4 inches taller.



PWNED!
I didn't know that. This thread just got really hilarious.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> PWNED!
> I didn't know that. This thread just got really hilarious.


What else is quite funny is that Bogut ranked 60/75 players in the little combine! LMFAO at weak little Andrew and his clones!


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> What else is quite funny is that Bogut ranked 60/75 players in the little combine! LMFAO at weak little Andrew and his clones!


 Centers have innate disadvantage in these contests for the overall rankings: they include lane agility and sprints where C will do poorly. It much better to compare his results with other center like Okafur and the like to see how he compares


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> What else is quite funny is that Bogut ranked 60/75 players in the little combine! LMFAO at weak little Andrew and his clones!


You have to be 15 years old. :rotf:


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

HKF said:


> Give me basketball players over athletes anyday of the week. Now if they're basketball playing athletes, well that's different.



Marvin Williams is a basketball playing athlete. He's both. I'd take him #1.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> You have to be 15 years old. :rotf:


Gee whiz that was a real zinger! I'm crushed because Hong Kong Fooey doesn't like me. Damn!


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Gee whiz that was a real zinger! I'm crushed because Hong Kong Fooey doesn't like me. Damn!


He may like you...its your logic and intellegence (or lack thereof) that he finds hilarious.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> He may like you...its your logic and intellegence (or lack thereof) that he finds hilarious.


Junior in college, a place I doubt either of you have likely been. I have a lack of intelligence cause I think Bogut is garbage like every other white center? I think you may be the one with faulty logic son.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Junior in college, a place I doubt either of you have likely been. I have a lack of intelligence cause I think Bogut is garbage like every other white center? I think you may be the one with faulty logic son.


Sorry son, I have a degree. Questioning my intelligence, please. You sound like a fool.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> Sorry son, I have a degree. Questioning my intelligence, please. You sound like a fool.


Sorry boy, but University of Phoenix doesn't count!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Sorry boy, but University of Phoenix doesn't count!


:rofl: The University of Phoenix? HAHA. This goon goes to Gibbs Technical school, talking about my education. I'm not going to waste time on you much longer, but you crack me up. Yes, I received an online degree. How do I function in life with such a mediocre degree. 

:mrt:


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> :rofl: The University of Phoenix? HAHA. This goon goes to Gibbs Technical school, talking about my education. I'm not going to waste time on you much longer, but you crack me up. Yes, I received an online degree. How do I function in life with such a mediocre degree.
> 
> :mrt:


Actually, you guys were the ones of brought intelligence into the conversation when it really wasn't necessary. What does disliking a prospect to a degree have to do with a persons intelligence exactly?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Actually, you guys were the ones of brought intelligence into the conversation when it really wasn't necessary. What does disliking a prospect to a degree have to do with a persons intelligence exactly?


No don't backtrack. You were on a roll keep going.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> No don't backtrack. You were on a roll keep going.


No, i think you out did me with the 15 year old comment with the rolling smily face! That was a real good one bro!


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Junior in college, a place I doubt either of you have likely been. I have a lack of intelligence cause I think Bogut is garbage like every other white center? I think you may be the one with faulty logic son.


Junior in college...good job...where do you go? I go to UWM....just finished my freshmen year.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Junior in college...good job...where do you go? I go to UWM....just finished my freshmen year.


Just transferred to Cal Poly actually. One of the most gorgeous places on earth IMO.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Just transferred to Cal Poly actually. One of the most gorgeous places on earth IMO.


Awesome....my brother just got back from UCSB...great place aswell.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Awesome....my brother just got back from UCSB...great place aswell.


Second most beautiful place on earth lol, my best friend goes there and absolutely loves it, but it's hard to attend class when you're living on the beach and its always 80 degrees out.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Second most beautiful place on earth lol, my best friend goes there and absolutely loves it, but it's hard to attend class when you're living on the beach and its always 80 degrees out.


Damn hijacked threads....he was telling me about Newport Beach...great place I assume.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Can I just sneak in that Intelligence has nothing to do with level of education, because it really doesn't. Not that I'm some high school dropout with a genius IQ or anything, but I'm just saying.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Marvin also weighs 10 pounds less than scrawny *** Andrew and he's 4 inches shorter!


Get your face out of Marvin's lap....He's good, but so is Bogut....

Your just mad because Marvin isn't going to #1


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