# Preseason Game Thread: 10.11.04 Wizards @ Pacers



## MJG

Not sure how much people will have to say about this one, since it won't be on TV, but since I'm putting up a thread for the rest of the preseason games I figured I'd do this one too. Feel free to discuss our preseason opener if you'd like.


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## CP26

Win or Lose, I just want to see Gilbert, Larry, and Jamison mesh together.


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## MJG

Little note from Monday's Post article ...


> Jordan said he will go with a starting lineup of Arenas, Haywood, Antawn Jamison, Jarvis Hayes and Larry Hughes tonight against the Pacers in Muncie, Ind.


It also mentions Etan won't be playing in this week's preseason games with an abdominal strain. It isn't supposed to be serious, the sitouts are more precautionary.


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## jazzy1

Not in a real good modd after watching My Skins melt down to BMore. 

But that starting line-up is interesting. 

EJ can help but go the offensive route with Hayes.

Alittle surprised .

Hayes is gonna get abused like last season against Artest who really roughed him up in the post. 

I'd be interested how many shots Arenas, Hughes and Jamsion take and how man assists to to's the backcourt makes. 

Jamison against JO in short minutes will be an interesting look also. 

Plus I'd like to see how Ramos does in his 1st NBA game. 

Is this game on the radio or NBA.com or anything. 

Do you have to subscribe to NBA pass to get the radio broadcast if thats the case.


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## RP McMurphy

Jermaine O'Neal and Jonathan Bender will be sitting this game out.


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## Shanghai Kid

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Not in a real good modd after watching My Skins melt down to BMore.
> 
> But that starting line-up is interesting.
> 
> EJ can help but go the offensive route with Hayes.
> 
> Alittle surprised .
> 
> Hayes is gonna get abused like last season against Artest who really roughed him up in the post.
> 
> I'd be interested how many shots Arenas, Hughes and Jamsion take and how man assists to to's the backcourt makes.
> 
> Jamison against JO in short minutes will be an interesting look also.
> 
> Plus I'd like to see how Ramos does in his 1st NBA game.
> 
> Is this game on the radio or NBA.com or anything.
> 
> Do you have to subscribe to NBA pass to get the radio broadcast if thats the case.


I think you can follow the game on NBA.com, but we'll have to wait for highlights to get any kind of feel of whats going on. Tommorrow night should be a better indicator.

I'm not worried about the turnovers yet since it's the first preseason game against one of the best defensive teams in the league, but if we're stillt turning it over alot by the last pre-season game than I'd be worried.

The line-up is interesting, I think it's probably one of the fastest line-ups in the league. We should get up and down the court and be pretty fun to watch. I'm hoping Hayes serves more as a spot up shooter instead of doing outrageous fadeaways and the other stuff he was doing last season. 

If the defense is too horrible, I'm sure EJ will test out putting Jeffries in instead. But the all offense route may be a good way to go until Kwame comes back. 

I'm more curious about how bad Jamison's defense really is.


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## byrondarnell66

Anybody knows what the probable starting lineups for both teams
may be


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## Shanghai Kid

You can listen to the game on NBA.com, it's free for preseason, just have to register.


The Pacers guys are doing the commentary.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> You can listen to the game on NBA.com, it's free for preseason, just have to register.
> 
> 
> The Pacers guys are doing the commentary.


I registered and still can't get it.


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## f22egl

The starting lineups are:

Pacer
PG- Jamal Tinsley
SG - Reggie Miller
SF- Stephen Jackson
PF - Austin Croshere
C- Jeff Foster

Wizards
PG- Arenas
SG- Hughes
SF- Hayes
PF- Jamison
C- Haywood


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## byrondarnell66

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> I registered and still can't get it.


Mee too. i keep getting a my profile menu when i log in


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## CP26

Welcome k3vin2k3 
Enjoy your free sneak preview of NBA Inside Ticket!

NBA Inside Ticket is your comprehensive multimedia subscription package to the NBA including live game action on Audio League Pass and exclusive video highlights. As an NBA Fan Center Member, you get free access to a special sneak preview of NBA Inside Ticket during the preseason.

Be sure to visit the NBA Fan Center for more member benefits or to sign up for exclusive e-mail newsletters and alerts. 

And look for information soon on how to subscribe to NBA Inside Ticket for the 2004-05 NBA season! 


The media player isn't working i guess


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## BCH

You need the realone player.

I registered then clicked on the game name after selecting Listen Live to Preseason Games link.

Now I am listening to the oldest NBA announcers known to man. It is odd to get a two man team on the radio, being used to the solo guy for the Wizards.


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## byrondarnell66

Has the game started yet its close to 8:30


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## f22egl

indiana 15 washington 12

Stephen Jackson is putting a clinic on Jarvis Hayes who already has 3 fouls.


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## Pan Mengtu

Go here. There is no score updates. This tells me that the game hasn't started yet... delay maybe?


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## f22egl

washington 21, indiana 19

haywood has 6, hughes has 9 while jackson has 10.

jermaine o'neal and ron artest aren't playing.


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## CP26

wiz-27, pacers-23


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## Pan Mengtu

Where are you getting these scores from? The site I posted doesn't have anything.


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## jazzy1

Yeah I got in you need realplayer. 

JJ still can't shoot, Juan is still putting it up as well as us Hughes. 

All not good signs.


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## RP McMurphy

Most people like to say that pre-season games mean nothing. I think later in the pre-season when teams actually start using their regular lineups for the most part, it means a lot. But early in the pre-season it's just a bunch of guys trying to make a roster.

Right now the Wizards have Juan Dixon, Jared Jeffries, Laron Profit, Michael Ruffin, and Samaki Walker on the floor. The Pacers are sending out Austin Croshere, Anthony Johnson, Fred Jones, James Jones, and Scot Pollard. It's safe to say this game means squat.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Most people like to say that pre-season games mean nothing. I think later in the pre-season when teams actually start using their regular lineups for the most part, it means a lot. But early in the pre-season it's just a bunch of guys trying to make a roster.
> 
> Right now the Wizards have Juan Dixon, Jared Jeffries, Laron Profit, Michael Ruffin, and Samaki Walker on the floor. The Pacers are sending out Austin Croshere, Anthony Johnson, Fred Jones, James Jones, and Scot Pollard. It's safe to say this game means squat.


Agreed. 

We can't seem to pry the ball outta Juan's hands.


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## Shanghai Kid

Juan is definetly gunning, and Jeffries jumper still sounds horrible..

On the brightside, it sounds like Jamison is really making some nice passes. Arenas has been quiet tonight.

Stephen Jackson is just killing us. Jarvis Hayes has 5 fouls. It looks like SFs are going to kill us all year.


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## Shanghai Kid

Arenas hits one of his classic 3s from way behind the arc.

Haywood is really sounding like a beast, taking guys off the dribble! Can't hit a ft to save his life though. 

Hughes is taking those blasted jumpers on the fastbreak that I hate.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> Arenas hits one of his classic 3s from way behind the arc.
> 
> Haywood is really sounding like a beast, taking guys off the dribble! Can't hit a ft to save his life though.
> 
> Hughes is taking those blasted jumpers on the fastbreak that I hate.


Agreed with your analysis here.


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## jazzy1

Brendan Haywood Break-out season ?

Why does this announcer keep saying Ball St.


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## Shanghai Kid

Haywood is BEASTING!

Can we hit a freethrow? We would have a 10 point lead if we hit a freethrow.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> Haywood is BEASTING!
> 
> Can we hit a freethrow? We would have a 10 point lead if we hit a freethrow.


Was about to say the same thing about the free throws.

Why is Arenas struggling so much on defense. 

Its obvious Arenas isn't playing hard tonight. He did the same thing last preseason and then exploded early in the season. 

I would like to see Arenas play some better defense though.

He's having trouble with Tinsely which is alittle troubling.


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## MJG

Maybe if Haywood rips up the preseason, we'll get our wish and see him actually get more then 20 minutes a night?


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> Maybe if Haywood rips up the preseason, we'll get our wish and see him actually get more then 20 minutes a night?


I feel you. 

I thought last season Brendan finally came around. he started playing well every time out he just didn't get many minutes. 

He's killing us missing free throws.


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## Shanghai Kid

It sounds like Arenas really is just feeling everything out. He can probably score at will on Tinsley, but he's letting everybody else get a feel for their game.

Haywood is sounding real good out there.


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## CP26

Can someone post the statline for Jamison and Gilbert?


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## jazzy1

Jamison seems alittle quiet. 

I guess they got alittle tired of Hayes's terrible defense. 

I'd like to see Ramos get some run

JJ seems real active despite not scoring or making shots. He's hustling and playing good defense.


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## Shanghai Kid

Ramos is getting some playing time.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> Ramos is getting some playing time.


Seems like Harrison might be okay he's going to work on Ramos. 

Glad we're gonna get a look at the Wiz tomorrow. 

Fitch is giving us some buckets. 

I think Hayes has got to become a two guard real soon or he won't last with his poor D at the 3. 

Where's Peeler.


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## Shanghai Kid

Fitch is really impressive to me. He can run the team much better than Juan Dixon.


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## Shanghai Kid

Nice Hayes has been hitting some jumpers when they count.


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## jazzy1

Hayes is starting to hit, Ruffin has been real active on the boards. 

Pacer 83-82 1:03 left. timeout


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## jazzy1

19 seconds left Pacers up 1 Wizards ball time out. 

Go to Hayes and hope he hits don't wait late in the clock take it early.


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## jazzy1

Good stuff JJ tips it in. 

Wiz might win. JJ 9 points.


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## Shanghai Kid

Jeffries got the tip in, nice.

Up by 1 point with 9 seconds left, Indy can hit the game winner here.


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## Shanghai Kid

Damn they got a tip in at the buzzer.


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## MJG

Would've been nice to pick up the win, but it wasn't what was important here.


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## jazzy1

Wizards lose by one. 

Announcers says it was after the buzzer hey its preseason.


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## jazzy1

I hate losing call it my competitive streak. Don't know if its a bad sign that we lost when the Pacers were without Artest and JO. 

Arenas doesn't play hard in the preseason. 

Good to see JJ ,Hayes and Haywood play well. 

What happened to Peeler .


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## Shanghai Kid

I hate losing also. Even if it is by one point on a shot after the buzzer, I would love to go 8-0 in preseason if I had my way. 

But really, that was nothing like what our healthy regular season line-up should look like. No Kwame, Etan, Blake, Peeler, those guys are pretty important to our frontcourt and backcourt.


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## MJG

ESPN Box Score

Some things from the link ...

* Ignoring JJ's offense, he had a very nice game. 6 boards, 3 steals, 2 assists, 2 blocks. If you turned his 2-9 shooting into 4-9, and his 5-10 free throws into 7-10, we'd be grinning ear to ear.

* Not much to add to Haywood's performance that hasn't been mentioned already. 17 points on 7-11 FG, 7 rebounds, 4 blocks, 2 steals, all in 24 minutes. Fix the FT problem, even to something like 6-10, and we're in serious business.

* Ah, Dixon ... nothing has changed. 7 shots in 11 minutes? At least he made 3 of them.

* Jamison may not have shot much -- 3-8 in 25 minutes -- but he did kick in 7 boards, 4 assists, and a block.

* Hayes may be primarily a scorer, but I hope in the future he can contribute something more than a bunch of 0's across to box score in the future.

* None of the fringe guys did anything statistically.

* 17 steals, 8 blocks, 23 turnovers forced, only 13 turnovers committed.

* Weak shooting; .400 from the field, .167 from the arc, .438 (!) from the line.


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## MJG

Post article on game

Some tidbits from this article ...

* Hayes started the game, but he hasn't been given the starting job. He is competing against Jared Jeffries for the temp spot in the starting lineup.

* Hayes believes his role with us this season is to "shoot the ball, put points on the board."

* Kwame shot around pregame, but was pulled off the floor when he tried to start playing some 1v1 against Walker.


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## Shanghai Kid

I'm not really feeling that Hayes is basically just becoming a one dimensional shooter. I don't know how much he fits when we have Arenas/Hughes/Jamison/Kwame all needing shots. Him specifically saying his job is to put points on the board makes him being a starter even worse to me.

Here's to hoping that Jeffries beats him out.


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## MJG

I never had too much of a problem with Hayes being an offensively oriented player, but I worry he's taking it too far. Everything he says seems to involve scoring, and the result from the first game showed that to be the way he is playing as well. It's just one relatively meaningless game, but the poor defense and blank box score outside of the scoring column is cause for concern. 

If he doesn't watch out, he'll quickly find himself dropping from potential temp starter to the bottom of the rotation.


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## f22egl

> * Ah, Dixon ... nothing has changed. 7 shots in 11 minutes? At least he made 3 of them.


It's hard to put all the blame on Juan for taking that many shots especially when he was not playing with the starters. When he was on the floor, the Wizards had Laron Profit, Michael Ruffin, Samaki Walker, and Jarred Jeffries in the game. Those 4 individuals shot a combined 4 of 15.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I never had too much of a problem with Hayes being an offensively oriented player, but I worry he's taking it too far. Everything he says seems to involve scoring, and the result from the first game showed that to be the way he is playing as well. It's just one relatively meaningless game, but the poor defense and blank box score outside of the scoring column is cause for concern.
> 
> If he doesn't watch out, he'll quickly find himself dropping from potential temp starter to the bottom of the rotation.


Yeah I agree about Hayes. he's just one dimensional and if that doesn't change he'll come off the bench his whole career. 

Whats terrible about his game is that the best part is when he's catching and shooting no dribbling just firing. But he feels like he has to create space, fade away, spin move. And he usually throws up some junk. 

JJ who knows. Will he make winning plays for us being an all around hustler and rebounder or just a frustrating non shooter who creates turnovers and misses easy shots. 

Both those guys are getting on my nerves and I don't trust either guy. 

But I'm pulling for JJ because as mentioned he does more things on the floor. He could be a role playing garbage guy who plays lock up perimeter defense. 

We really missed Peeler last night. We need shooting. 

Other than our inside guys shooting high percentages we don't have real pure shooting. Peeler could help loosen things up. 

Juan is just a gunning mess.


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## afireinside

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> I'm not really feeling that Hayes is basically just becoming a one dimensional shooter. I don't know how much he fits when we have Arenas/Hughes/Jamison/Kwame all needing shots. Him specifically saying his job is to put points on the board makes him being a starter even worse to me.
> 
> Here's to hoping that Jeffries beats him out.


here's to not.


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## twinz2gether

On Ramos, How do u get 4 fouls in 7 mins? plz someone tell me.


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