# Jason Kidd



## ohiostfbfan (Jul 1, 2006)

How about we trade Big Z, Hughs, Sasha, and pick(s) for Kidd and someone to make the salary match. Then we could become a more fast-paced team with Z out of the picture. FINALLY we would have a Bona Fide point guard who would be a great mentor to Gibson. If we could get it done without giving up Gibson, Lebron, Gooden, or Varajo this would be great for the cavs.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Z/Hughes is already what.. 26 million?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Who would be our SG? Gibson. Don't know about this. I like J. Kidd and all but we lose all our good Sg defenders along with our only true C with this move


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Well, I wouldn't be up for losing Sasha and Ilgauskas but we could trade Larry and Drew for Kidd if we get some other pieces. We'd definitely have to get rid of Eric Snow (or at least Damon Jones). And I don't see the problem starting Boobie at SG and defend the PGs on D while Kidd plays the SG and runs the show on offense.


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## ohiostfbfan (Jul 1, 2006)

If the cavs are going to make a trade sasha or andy will have to be used as bait. I dont see what the big deal is with Z. We could start andy and gooden and run a rotation with them two and Marshall. Why wouldnt we start Gibson at shooting guard, hes the best shooter on the team. Even though his height would be a factor, with LBJ and Kidd, he would definately get a lot of wide open looks and if he misses we'll have some of the best offensive rebounders in the league ( andy and gooden) crashing the boards. I hate watching Z just look and reach for the ball, he cant even jump.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Sorry but the Cavs organization has nothing that would interest the Nets.


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

could the cavs have something to offer the grizzlies to facilitate a 3-way trade with the nets for carter or kidd?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

LostInGeorgia said:


> could the cavs have something to offer the grizzlies to facilitate a 3-way trade with the nets for carter or kidd?


Grizz don't need a PG with Lowry so that rules out Gibson. They won't want Gooden back. That leaves Sasha and AV, not enough IMO.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Jizzy said:


> Sorry but the Cavs organization has nothing that would interest the Nets.


Nets could use AV or Gooden for sure.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The thing is the Nets would be interested in our big men IF they could keep there big 3 intact for a run. W/o them I'm not sure beyond the fact taht pretty much every team could use AV


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Nets could use AV or Gooden for sure.



Sure but other then that, there is nothing else. The Nets are not interested in Hughes or Z along with there contracts.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Trade idea. Kidd,Wright, and Kristic for Gooden,Varejao, 2nd rounder, and Hughes.
Hughes would be the salary filler. You get an allstar pg and someone to fill in center for two nice pfs and an overpaid sg. Then we use our first rounder to draft a center and your second rounder to draft a backup pg. Feedback please.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> Trade idea. Kidd,Wright, and Kristic for Gooden,Varejao, 2nd rounder, and Hughes.
> Hughes would be the salary filler. You get an allstar pg and someone to fill in center for two nice pfs and an overpaid sg. Then we use our first rounder to draft a center and your second rounder to draft a backup pg. Feedback please.



I would take a variation of the trade that didn't include AV.


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

Hughes and Gooden would be the only two guys I'd be willing to part with, along with the obvious (Newble, DJ2, DJ, Pollard, Wesley)------


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> Trade idea. Kidd,Wright, and Kristic for Gooden,Varejao, 2nd rounder, and Hughes.
> Hughes would be the salary filler. You get an allstar pg and someone to fill in center for two nice pfs and an overpaid sg. Then we use our first rounder to draft a center and your second rounder to draft a backup pg. Feedback please.


I cant say I would be excited to trade our two young post players for an Center thats out for the season. 

Also, Kidd is a great player with PG talents like no other. But he is old and making around 19 million, and his outside shot could be as worse as Hughes. I would not be in favor of this trade in any aspect.


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## Drew (Feb 28, 2005)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> Trade idea. Kidd,Wright, and Kristic for Gooden,Varejao, 2nd rounder, and Hughes.
> Hughes would be the salary filler. You get an allstar pg and someone to fill in center for two nice pfs and an overpaid sg. Then we use our first rounder to draft a center and your second rounder to draft a backup pg. Feedback please.


No way the Nets would ever do that. Krstic is better than Varejao, Kidd is obviously better than Hughes, and the Nets would rather keep Antoine Wright than take on Drew Gooden's contract. How does that help the Nets at all?


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## Drew (Feb 28, 2005)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> I cant say I would be excited to trade our two young post players for an Center thats out for the season.
> 
> Also, Kidd is a great player with PG talents like no other. But he is old and making around 19 million, and his outside shot could be as worse as Hughes. I would not be in favor of this trade in any aspect.


Nenad Krstic is twenty three years old. He'll be around a couple more years. He is out for the year, yes, but it's not like he is injury prone. Richard Jefferson would be injury prone. 

If you can show me how Jason Kidd has been slowing down at all, I'd love to see it. His play this season has been phenomenal. Again, he missed two games before the all-star break, does that make him injury prone? I don't think so. His contract is absolutley too big on the back end, but Larry Hughes is no "bargain" either.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Sorry Kristic is too much switch him with Cliffy. I dont know what I was thinking!


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Kristic isn't better then AV


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## ohiostfbfan (Jul 1, 2006)

Drew said:


> No way the Nets would ever do that. Krstic is better than Varejao, Kidd is obviously better than Hughes, and the Nets would rather keep Antoine Wright than take on Drew Gooden's contract. How does that help the Nets at all?


Good one. In what way is Kristic better than AV? Scoring_= same. Rebounding = AV. Defense = AV. Energy = AV. Hair = AV.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

12 and 6 for a career

or 

5 and 5


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

TucsonClip said:


> 12 and 6 for a career
> 
> or
> 
> 5 and 5


You might want to take minutes played into the equation (Cavs have much deeper frontcourt then the Nets and AV finishes the game even if he doesn't start). Kristic is a better scorer but AV has a much better rebound rate and is a better defender (look at the charges taken which AV leads the league in).

Kristic: better scorer, AV better defender and much better rebounder


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Krstic is a much better offensive player and I agree that AV is the better defender and rebounder.

I think Krstic's potential combined with his offensive ability makes him the better player. AV is a good defender/rebounder, but if you were building a team and had a choice of Krstic or Varejao, would you really choose AV?

I cant imagine passing on Krstic for AV.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

TucsonClip said:


> Krstic is a much better offensive player and I agree that AV is the better defender and rebounder.
> 
> I think Krstic's potential combined with his offensive ability makes him the better player. AV is a good defender/rebounder, but if you were building a team and had a choice of Krstic or Varejao, would you really choose AV?
> 
> I cant imagine passing on Krstic for AV.


I could easily. Kristic is a jump shooting big man whose made a career so far living off the all the attention the Big 3 get. I like Kristic but just think through how many teams would rather have a great help defender who also rebounds like a madman versus a big man who makes his living with the jumpshots. 

If you're talking about potential I again point out career number is a bad overall measure since AV didn't recieve big minutes till the last year and half. If you want to look at potential look at his numbers when starting when he starts (12 ppg and 11rbg). This is admittedly a small sample size but he scores at a good clip and nearly double Kristic's boards. The only reasons he isn't starting right now is Gooden's trade value would plummet on the bench and AV would demand more money.


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## heiesuke (Jan 12, 2006)

ohiostfbfan said:


> Good one. In what way is Kristic better than AV? Scoring_= same. Rebounding = AV. Defense = AV. Energy = AV. Hair = AV.


You're smoking on them rocks with this statement. I like Andy as much as the next guy but Kristc is maybe a few rpg away from being on an Allstar level. Kidd paired up with Bron would be great for Cleveland tho. I hope if he is traded it's for some good young talent that can have somewhat of an immediate impact. But this is why I love the NBA, even if Kidd is one of my all time fav players.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I take AV over Kristic easily. Varejao brings things to the table you can't measure in numbers. That said he is a superior rebounder, defender, and passer, and Kristic also strikes me as a finesse big man. I like AV's mentality better, give me a physical PF who likes to throw his body around and make things happen.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Kristic has nice offense and some defense. Varejao has nice defense and no offense!


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Kristic actually reminds me alot of Z now that I think about it.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> I could easily. Kristic is a jump shooting big man whose made a career so far living off the all the attention the Big 3 get. I like Kristic but just think through how many teams would rather have a great help defender who also rebounds like a madman versus a big man who makes his living with the jumpshots.


Varejao is a role player - he plays good team defense, takes charges, rebounds, but that's it. He's the type of guy you want on your team, but he's the piece off the bench that does the dirty work. 

Varejao is a "madman on the boards"? So what are the other 61 guys who average more rebounds per game this season???

I seriously think Cavs fans overrate Varejao beyond any understanding for a normal NBA fan. If you seriously think any GM would take Varejao over Krstic, you're confused.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> So what are the other 61 guys who average more rebounds per game this season???


Now if you think of the Cavaliers roster, do we really need Z and Z Jr. Nenard is a good player, but he is a pick and pop player, likes to play Zydrunas like post game. That would not be a good complement to Zydrunas. 

Now he maybe 61st in rebounding, but he comes off our bench, if you look at the 48min rebounding he is ahead of such players like Dirk, Haslem, Marion, Bogut, Brand, Sheed. 

Some people call that stat worthless, but its the only way to argue that a player getting less minutes is just as good as starters on other teams, just is not in the right situation to get 35-40 minutes a night.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> If you seriously think any GM would take Varejao over Krstic, you're confused.


I think you'd be surprised what kind of attention Andy gets around the league. You can always find a player who can score, there are plenty around the league. But not many players play with the energy and activeness that Andy has, that is scarce quality in players in this league. 

Now these are my personal feelings and thoughts, just as those were yours saying no one would take Andy over Krstic. But my post above shows that Andy is more than a 'role players' he started over Z in the past two games and put up 12 and 17 boards. But I would also consider Ben Wallace a 'role player' on the Pistons, his role was to protect the basket, rebound, block shots. I would say that Andy plays that same role.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> Now if you think of the Cavaliers roster, do we really need Z and Z Jr. Nenard is a good player, but he is a pick and pop player, likes to play Zydrunas like post game. That would not be a good complement to Zydrunas.
> 
> Now he maybe 61st in rebounding, but he comes off our bench, if you look at the 48min rebounding he is ahead of such players like Dirk, Haslem, Marion, Bogut, Brand, Sheed.
> 
> Some people call that stat worthless, but its the only way to argue that a player getting less minutes is just as good as starters on other teams, just is not in the right situation to get 35-40 minutes a night.


per48 stats are worthless...

1) nobody plays 48 minutes
2) the only time you use the stat is for someone who doesn't play much
3) if they were that good, they would play

Take a look at the stat, using rebounds per 48 minutes, here is our top 10 rebounders:

1. Jared Reiner
2. James Augustine
3. Esteban Batista
4. Reggie Evans
5. Justin Williams
6. Dikembe Mutombo
7. Pops Mensah-Bonsu
8. Jamal Sampson
9. Tyson Chandler
10. Marcus Camby

Varejao is 49th in the NBA per 48, behind such Cavs as IRA NEWBLE (21), Drew Gooden (25), SCOT POLLARD(26), and Zydrunas Ilgauskas (33).


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## NetsKnight (Jan 29, 2007)

ohiostfbfan said:


> How about we trade Big Z, Hughs, Sasha, and pick(s) for Kidd and someone to make the salary match. Then we could become a more fast-paced team with Z out of the picture. FINALLY we would have a Bona Fide point guard who would be a great mentor to Gibson. If we could get it done without giving up Gibson, Lebron, Gooden, or Varajo this would be great for the cavs.


You could get Kidd w/o giving up Hughes. Hughes is injury prone and the Nets already have RJ and Krstic who are ALWAYS injured. A Kidd, Hughes, James would be running leaving foot prints on team's faces.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The best stat for rebounding is rebound rate which takes into rebounds per possesion and how many boards are actually available to the player by possession. AV has a very high rbr. There's very little doubt the guy is an elite rebounder. It's surprising his rebounds are that good to begin with as he plays with a bunch of good rebounders around him


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> per48 stats are worthless...
> 
> 1) nobody plays 48 minutes
> 2) the only time you use the stat is for someone who doesn't play much
> ...


Your wrong, there is a button that says qualified, It only has the players that have played a minimum amount of minutes, and the leaders are Camby/Chandler/Mutombo/Evans/Foster/Lee/Dwight Howard/Boozer/Garnett.

Now that sounds like a better list of players, you would use the same excuse for Zo saying he is a top 4 center in the East, you have to use some sort of stat too prove your point other than personal opinion.

No one players 48 minutes your right, but as you said, it helps prove a point for players that dont play as much as the starters b/c they are not in the right situation to start.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> Now that sounds like a better list of players, you would use the same excuse for Zo saying he is a top 4 center in the East, you have to use some sort of stat too prove your point other than personal opinion.


I can't argue Zo is a top 4 center in the East b/c he isn't...maybe last year, but this year how can you put ZO above Jermaine, Dwight, Curry, Shaq (healthy)?


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Kristic is way more valued than Varejao. HE is becoming a much better rebounder. There are not that many shooting big men in the league but there are plenty of shot blockers.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> Kristic is way more valued than Varejao. HE is becoming a much better rebounder. There are not that many shooting big men in the league but there are plenty of shot blockers.


What are you talking about? Neither AV or Kristic are good shotblockers but AV is amazing at drawing charges: best in the league which has a huge impact on defense


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Wow have you seen the garbage the Nets are taking for Kidd?

http://www.realgm.net/src_wiretap_archives/44781/20070220/nets_inch_closer_to_kidd_trade/



> The prevailing speculation is that big men Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown, point guard Jordan Farmar and a draft pick are the core pieces of the Lakers' offer.


WTF are the Nets thinking. We should be able to beat that offer..


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Haha and Nets fans are in here talking about how they wouldn't take Verajao.

You would if the alternative was Kwame Brown.

Anyways. Both the Lakers and the Cavs should be trying to make this move, because it's the type of move you make that steals you a quick championship.

I think the Cavs are going to lose out just because Kidd will want to go back west and play for Phil with Kobe in a Lakers Uniform.

Kidd would put us over the top in the east though.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

The only reason the Nets are considering that deal from the Lakers is because it gives them draft picks and tons of cap space. Other then that they get nothing out of the deal.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

We are not taking the Lakers bench trash. I have already read from multiple sources that the Lakers havent offered anything the Nets like. Thorn is not trying to rebuild he just is trying to get a big man. I think one of the Cavs big men could attract Thorn.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> We are not taking the Lakers bench trash. I have already read from multiple sources that the Lakers havent offered anything the Nets like. Thorn is not trying to rebuild he just is trying to get a big man. I think one of the Cavs big men could attract Thorn.


I was gonna say...that trade is horrible for the Nets! If the Lakers don't want to give up Odom or Bynum, Nets should just say forget it. It's almost like the media is trying to pressure the Nets into dealing Kidd to the Lakers.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> I was gonna say...that trade is horrible for the Nets! If the Lakers don't want to give up Odom or Bynum, Nets should just say forget it. It's almost like the media is trying to pressure the Nets into dealing Kidd to the Lakers.



Wouldn't be the first time the media pressured a trade into happening. Once the media finds the narrative they like, they do whatever they can to make it happen.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

The Cavs don't have a first-round pick this year (I think), which is one of the main reasons why they aren't competing with LA for Kidd. Also the EC/WC factor is coming into play.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Haha and Nets fans are in here talking about how they wouldn't take Verajao.
> 
> You would if the alternative was Kwame Brown.
> 
> ...





That's debateable....I can think of one example of a major trade bringing a huge piece to the puzzle turning into a championship. And to say that Kidd makes the Cavs the top team in the East says alot, I don't think Miami or Detroit would agree with you on that one.

Put Kidd on the Cavs, depending on what you give up, you really are just a deeper Nets with a little better post presense. I'm really confused at what you'd possibly be giving up anyways...


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Well we're the New Jersey Nets with actual big men, and Lebron James, if we have Kidd.
i.e. kind of a big deal. The major hole in this team is and has been the point guard position. To solve it with a player of Kidd's calibre would make us really tough to handle. Plus Kidd has a ton of playoff experience in tough situations. 

I don't think the Heat are really in a position to ask a lot of questions of as, as we nearly beat them in Miami, and slaughtered them in Cleveland. They need to concentrate on just making the playoffs and trying to get homecourt in the first round.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Well we're the New Jersey Nets with actual big men, and Lebron James, if we have Kidd.
> i.e. kind of a big deal. The major hole in this team is and has been the point guard position. To solve it with a player of Kidd's calibre would make us really tough to handle. Plus Kidd has a ton of playoff experience in tough situations.
> 
> I don't think the Heat are really in a position to ask a lot of questions of as, as we nearly beat them in Miami, and slaughtered them in Cleveland. They need to concentrate on just making the playoffs and trying to get homecourt in the first round.


Please don't speak up if you are ignoring the facts:

*The Heat haven't played ONE SINGLE GAME with their starting 5 intact through more than half the season.

*They have missed Shaq for almost the entire year, take the 2nd best player off most teams and they are lucky to be .500

*We've went through all these injuries, plus a mid-season coaching change, and still sitting at .500

*The injuries have helped us become even deeper than we already are, since players who normally didn't get alot of minutes are now playing BIG minutes and contributing. We could realistically go 10 deep (won't happen with Riles) when we are healthy. 

*And through all of this, we're 4 games out in the division (2nd place in the East). 

And finally, if you think the Heat should be worried about the Cavs, I think you got yourself twisted. The Cavs should be worried about the Heat. With all the adversity we've faced in the 1st part of the season, you are 4.5 games ahead of us! We're playing probably our best basketball of the season right now, and if last season was any indication of the attitude of our team, the playoffs are the only thing that really matters. We couldn't beat the good teams last year during the regular season, every team we played in the playoffs had beaten us ATLEAST one time during the regular season, yet we know who finished on top.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Please don't speak up if you are ignoring the facts:
> 
> *The Heat haven't played ONE SINGLE GAME with their starting 5 intact through more than half the season.
> 
> ...


I agree with what your saying... But its not like the Cavaliers season has been all roses and sunshine. Injuries to Hughes has kept him off the floor for about a 1/4th of the first half, Zydrunas has been out, The same for Lebron. We just now are switching to a new style a play with new personal on the floor (Gibson/Sasha). And were heading into the ASG playing our best basketball.

I think this second half will really tell who is the team in the east, the Pistons are #1, no arguement, but that 2nd seed is up for grabs. The Wiz,Bulls,Cavs have the best shot, and a great 2nd half showing could have the Heat there. 

But you did have an amazing start to the season last year and had homecourt up until the Piston series, as it looks you won't have home court in the first round unless you pass the Wizards.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Oh thats funny the Cavs should be scared of a .500 team. The Heat is going nowhere my freind. Hoping for a Kidd deal. The Cavs would almost have to offer Varejao.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> I agree with what your saying... But its not like the Cavaliers season has been all roses and sunshine. Injuries to Hughes has kept him off the floor for about a 1/4th of the first half, Zydrunas has been out, The same for Lebron. We just now are switching to a new style a play with new personal on the floor (Gibson/Sasha). And were heading into the ASG playing our best basketball.
> 
> I think this second half will really tell who is the team in the east, the Pistons are #1, no arguement, but that 2nd seed is up for grabs. The Wiz,Bulls,Cavs have the best shot, and a great 2nd half showing could have the Heat there.
> 
> But you did have an amazing start to the season last year and had homecourt up until the Piston series, as it looks you won't have home court in the first round unless you pass the Wizards.


1 Detroit 
2 Washington -2.5
3 Cleveland -2.5
4 Toronto -4.5
5 Chicago -4.5
6 Indiana -5.0
7 Orlando -7.0
8 Miami -7.0

Maybe I'm biased, but it's hard for me to think the Heat won't get a top 3 seed. Washington has beat us ONCE since Wade came, and he was hurt that game. Orlando is on the way down. Chicago has lost 6 of their last 10. Toronto is almost a lock for the 4th, unless New Jersey keeps their stars and/or New York keeps up their recent play. Indiana is a wildcard, I think they could push Cleveland or drop to the bottom half of the playoff picture. That leaves Miami, Cleveland, and Detroit. Unless something bad happens, Detroit wins the East (that's good for both of us, the #1 seed in the East has been a curse as of late). Personally, I don't think Cleveland will win 5 more games than a healthy Miami in the 2nd half unless they get a great deal for Kidd or Bibby. That leaves Miami in the 2nd or 3rd seed. I'm sure you all will disagree, but that's my thoughts on the East.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> Oh thats funny the Cavs should be scared of a .500 team. The Heat is going nowhere my freind. Hoping for a Kidd deal. The Cavs would almost have to offer Varejao.


Coming from a Nets fan, that's priceless. We've been the executioner for your team's season the last how many years? EXACTLY, too bad you won't be in the playoffs for Miami to end you again.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> 1 Detroit
> 2 Washington -2.5
> 3 Cleveland -2.5
> 4 Toronto -4.5
> ...


I don't understand what you're referring to with this statement. Are you saying that the Cavs won't get the #1 seed, or are you saying that the Cavs won't extend their lead on the Heat by an additional 5 games? I don't get what you're saying.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Brandname said:


> I don't understand what you're referring to with this statement. Are you saying that the Cavs won't get the #1 seed, or are you saying that the Cavs won't extend their lead on the Heat by an additional 5 games? I don't get what you're saying.


The Cavs are 4.5 ahead of Miami right now. I didn't word it very well, but I'm basically saying I think the Heat win 5+ games more than Cleveland in the 2nd part of the season (meaning, Miami finishes higher than Cleveland).


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> The Cavs are 4.5 ahead of Miami right now. I didn't word it very well, but I'm basically saying I think the Heat win 5+ games more than Cleveland in the 2nd part of the season (meaning, Miami finishes higher than Cleveland).


Ahh... ok, yeah I think you had it backwards there. 

I think it depends on how Cleveland comes out of the break more than Miami. I think we know what to expect out of Miami. Shaq will probably come back and get serious for the stretch run, and they should come out strong. Cleveland is undergoing a lot of roster movement even without trades right now, so we're a little more of a wildcard. It will be interesting to see not only whether we make a trade, but whether we can keep the momentum we had going into the break.

We've looked great since Gibson's been starting.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Brandname said:


> Ahh... ok, yeah I think you had it backwards there.
> 
> I think it depends on how Cleveland comes out of the break more than Miami. I think we know what to expect out of Miami. Shaq will probably come back and get serious for the stretch run, and they should come out strong. Cleveland is undergoing a lot of roster movement even without trades right now, so we're a little more of a wildcard. It will be interesting to see not only whether we make a trade, but whether we can keep the momentum we had going into the break.
> 
> We've looked great since Gibson's been starting.


I agree...Gibson really has impressed me. But I'd be worried come playoff time with a rookie starting PG, doesn't seem like a situation I'd want when you have to battle guys like Billups, Arenas, Tinsley, JWill, Ford, and Hinrich most likely. But he brings everything the Cavs need that Snow doesn't have in the tank.

If I was a Cavs fan :lol: , I'd be worried that making a big deal for Bibby or Kidd would take away too many pieces and hurt your depth too much for a serious playoff run. Guess it just depends on what it takes to get those deals done.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> I agree...Gibson really has impressed me. But I'd be worried come playoff time with a rookie starting PG, doesn't seem like a situation I'd want when you have to battle guys like Billups, Arenas, Tinsley, JWill, Ford, and Hinrich most likely. But he brings everything the Cavs need that Snow doesn't have in the tank.
> *
> If I was a Cavs fan :lol: , I'd be worried that making a big deal for Bibby or Kidd would take away too many pieces and hurt your depth too much for a serious playoff run. Guess it just depends on what it takes to get those deals done.*


What if we want half of our pieces to go away anyway? :biggrin:


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> The Cavs are 4.5 ahead of Miami right now. I didn't word it very well, but I'm basically saying I think the Heat win 5+ games more than Cleveland in the 2nd part of the season (meaning, Miami finishes higher than Cleveland).


I don't necessarily dispute this. I think that's why Ferry is so aggressive going after Bibby/Kidd.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

OK so you cry about all your injuries but fail to realize every time you "executed" us a very important player went down. When we had RJ healthy in the regular seaso and in game 1 we beat you guys badly. The Heat cant do **** without Shaq and the Nets cant do **** without RJ. I assure you we will make the playoffs and the Heat will go nowhere. The Nets have suffered way more blows than the Heat have this season. I cant wait to see them in the 7th seed and get owned by the Wizards. But anyway what about big Z in a trade involving Kidd would the Cavs give him up?


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> OK so you cry about all your injuries but fail to realize every time you "executed" us a very important player went down. When we had RJ healthy in the regular seaso and in game 1 we beat you guys badly. The Heat cant do **** without Shaq and the Nets cant do **** without RJ. I assure you we will make the playoffs and the Heat will go nowhere. The Nets have suffered way more blows than the Heat have this season. I cant wait to see them in the 7th seed and get owned by the Wizards. But anyway what about big Z in a trade involving Kidd would the Cavs give him up?


I'd love to hear how the Nets have taken way more blows than the Heat this year, especially now with Wade out up to 6 weeks.

OT: After all this discussion of Heat/Cavs playoff seeding, my arguments took a HUGE hit only 3 quarters into the post all-star break.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Heat will still make the playoffs. NJ and NY aren't doing that hot, and Orlando is sliding as well. Might not even need a .500 record to get the 8th seed.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Yeah right the Heat will do nothing without Wade. RJ is coming back and Vince is getting pissed he had 46 points last night and was dunking in peoples faces. To bad nothing happned.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> Yeah right the Heat will do nothing without Wade. RJ is coming back and Vince is getting pissed he had 46 points last night and was dunking in peoples faces. To bad nothing happned.


Again, Mr. Nets fan we have something you might not understand..it's called:

D-E-P-T-H

We don't lose our starter and have to put Mikki Moore in his place :lol:


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Again, Mr. Nets fan we have something you might not understand..it's called:
> 
> D-E-P-T-H
> 
> We don't lose our starter and have to put Mikki Moore in his place :lol:


You are right. You only had to put 40 yr old Gary Payton (who is shooting a white-hot 39% from the field) when you lost a starter. Mikki on the other hand is shooting just 61.7% (better than that of David Lee who leads the league in FG%).


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## UrFavTeamSux (Jan 17, 2007)

Heat are just as done without Wade as Cleveland would be without Lebron.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Depth? Are you kidding me. Shaq and J-Will go down and you go to below .500. Starting Alonzo,Payton, and Kapno is depth. You have bench players on your bench just like us. You dont have a Jerry Stackhouse or Michael Finley their.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

vincedunkedonzo2 said:


> Depth? Are you kidding me. Shaq and J-Will go down and you go to below .500. Starting Alonzo,Payton, and Kapno is depth. You have bench players on your bench just like us. You dont have a Jerry Stackhouse or Michael Finley their.


Argue about this on your respected forums.


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