# Hinrich going to Denver for Camby?



## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

> Denver's potential deal for the Bulls' Kirk Hinrich could mean Marcus Camby is heading to Chicago.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...ith_ron_artest_elton_brand_could_.html?page=0


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

huh? i didn't even read that in the article


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## Numero Uno (Oct 21, 2007)

It's on Slam Dunks on page 2


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

I saw this. Its an intriguing idea. I would do it. Camby and Gooden are extremely valuable as trade baits in February. Camby can be that mentor for Noah and Tyrus. As a basketball player, he is still effective.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

I would do this deal. Throw in Aaron Gray to open up minutes and maybe get a 1st rounder in return. Then trade Nocioni for an expiring contract. Maybe to the Knicks for Jerome James(I think he's expiring).


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I would do that in a hearbeat! Covers a need, clears log jam the guard spot.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

P to the Wee said:


> I would do this deal. Throw in Aaron Gray to open up minutes and maybe get a 1st rounder in return.


Aaron Gray too? Come on man. That is a deal breaker. Who is Aaron Gray?


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Good trade for both teams. Hinrich helps Denver out so much it's crazy.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

If Thabo doesn't do well could Chicago get kleiza from Denver to start next to Rose?


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## Numero Uno (Oct 21, 2007)

I hope this deal does happen.

The Bulls could use Camby pretty badly, and Hinrich could fit in well for Denver.

Edit - yeah i guess you could do that


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

I don't like that trade.

This a typical Pax’s style of trade – Kirk has been wasted for the future cap space. Again money, money, money ... that is all Pax does to worry.

Kirk should be a part of consolidation trade !!! (what is wrong to get Carmelo ????)

Players like Camby (35 years old) you can get for free, thru the free agent recruitment. I rather have PJ Brown instead of wasting Kirk for an old undersized center Camby.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

P to the Wee said:


> I would do this deal. Throw in Aaron Gray to open up minutes and maybe get a 1st rounder in return. Then trade Nocioni for an expiring contract. Maybe to the Knicks for Jerome James(I think he's expiring).


They're not going to give you a 1st rounder for Gray....


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Bulls96 said:


> I don't like that trade.
> 
> This a typical Pax’s style of trade – Kirk has been wasted for the future cap space. Again money, money, money ... that is all Pax does to worry.
> 
> ...


You call 6-11 undersized?


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

silverpaw1786 said:


> They're not going to give you a 1st rounder for Gray....


What if it's top 20 protected? Gray is a solid role player. Just trying to find a way to open up minutes haha


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

From the perspective of a Denver fan...

I've packed Marcus' bags and am driving him to the airport.


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## animalthugism (Aug 23, 2005)

Sign me up... like someone mentioned earlier... frees up the log jam at guard a bit... and frees up a ton of cap money for the 2010 free agent extravaganza...


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

Horrible trade imo, get someone we can use (A PF Dengit!). I thought Kirk was highly favored around the league? & all we could probably net us is Camby? No offense but he's 34 years old and although he would free up roster space I just hate these giveaway trades without getting much if anything in return.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Camby is a DPOY contender year after year. He's a lot more than nothing. I think it's a solid trade. Both teams seem to like it.


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## Bulls2300 (Jun 29, 2008)

I would rather watch Noah and Tyrus get more minutes and develop. Camby is 35 and he really won't be much of an upgrade. I would like to see us go for Carmelo tho.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Why are we not going for Melo? He is NOT AVAILABLE. Its as simple as that.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Trading for Camby would give us what Ben Wallace was suppose to do. Camby could mentor both Tyrus and Noah for defense. For example teach Tyrus when to go up for a block instead of going up each time and drawing a foul most of the time.


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## Bulls2300 (Jun 29, 2008)

P to the Wee said:


> Trading for Camby would give us what Ben Wallace was suppose to do. Camby could mentor both Tyrus and Noah for defense. For example teach Tyrus when to go up for a block instead of going up each time and drawing a foul most of the time.



Who will mentor Rose when Hinrich is gone? Are we planning on starting Rose from the start of the season, if we are then I can see the reason why having Camby as a mentor might work. And yea, **** wallace.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

P to the Wee said:


> You call 6-11 undersized?


No, I meant his weight - 220 lb


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

That's a horrible trade. If Camby was in his 20s, then sure it'd be decent. We don't need a short term rental, and give up a quality starter for it. That's just a salary dump, and you get nowhere by giving talent away just to save money on the cap. Look at Tyson Chandler. Salary dump, and now blowing up in NO. Hinrich will be the same damn thing. You get him with some real players that can actually score by creating their own shot, and he'll blow up too. The Bulls really do need new management/ownership if this happens.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Look at Tyson Chandler. Salary dump, and now blowing up in NO. Hinrich will be the same damn thing. You get him with some real players that can actually score by creating their own shot, and he'll blow up too. The Bulls really do need new management/ownership if this happens.


so in essence, you're advocating getting rid of the bulls *best* players, keep the mediocre player and get some BETTER *best* players?

i'll be waiting to hear paxson's move in that direction......:eek8:


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Bulls2300 said:


> Who will mentor Rose when Hinrich is gone? Are we planning on starting Rose from the start of the season, if we are then I can see the reason why having Camby as a mentor might work. And yea, **** wallace.


I didn't know someone is already a mentor at 26 years old. Rose can always be mentored by Larry Hughes


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

I've been hollering for Camby for ages 

He's perfect for this team over the next 2 years as Noah and Tyrus develop behind Camby and Gooden that gives us defense and scoring upfront 

If it happens ( as I think it should - I was previously just looking at a Gooden swap ) then look for Anthony Carter to be included in a S and T that gives us a tough hard nosed vet back up point guard 

I would suggest we include Cedric Simmons and receive a future 1st round pick from Denver ( lottery protected ) 

Larry Hughes get packaged to New York with Charlie Villanueva 

Andres Nocioni and David Lee goes to Milwaukee

Mardy Collins , Malik Rose , Desmond Mason ( Rose and Mason are expiring contracts ) and Jerome James ( the latter who we buy out - he expires next year anyway ) and a future first round pick from Milwaukee goes to Chicago 

We keep Ben Gordon in this sceanrio 

We also look to sign Michael Finley to a 2 year LLE deal 

*

Camby
Gooden
Deng
Finley
Rose

6th : Gordon

bench

Noah
Thomas
Sefolosha
Mason
Carter

Gray
Rose
Curry
Collins

*

Camby, Gooden, Finley, M Rose , Mason and A. Carter all expire in 2 years which would leave the core of 

*

Noah
Thomas
Deng
Sefolosha
Rose

Gordon ??? QO or will he go 

*

PLus we would have two mid to late first round picks from Denver and Milwaukee in this scenario 

Nice mix of vets to help now while the core develops plus big cap space in 2010


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

it's like the ben wallace trade all over again


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## george (Aug 8, 2003)

Camby is on the wrong side of 30, not a good trade. What about Nene and a 1st round pick? I know he's injury prone, but when healthy he can play.


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## JPTurbo (Jan 8, 2006)

If this team is serious about changing things up then there is no reason why Noah and Tyrus should not be starting this year. I wouldn't mind having Camby on the team, but if it is at the expense of benching our young bigs for another year for a player who will most likely be out of the league in a few years I'd rather not. 

I think our starting lineup for the future is Rose, Thabo, Deng, Tyrus, and Noah. If it's the future let's not beat around the bush, let's make it the present. 

I also think a deal like this is probably the best we are going to get as the only other real option would be the package Hinrich with Gordon S&T for a big time shooting guard but I don't see why a team that already has a good SG would be interested in this. Getting Camby to play a reserve role wouldn't be a bad thing, but only as a reserve. Couple his expiring contract in '10 with Hughes' and we either have two amazing trading chips at the deadline or a ton of cap space that summer. So Pax, if you feel like you can use this to actually do something productive (unlike the Tyson/Wallace fiasco) go ahead because the outcome can be great. But if you're just going to piss it away like last time why bother?


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## fuzznuts (May 23, 2006)

how about trade for a big that can score. Noah can always be a complimentary player with his defense.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'd rather Hughes for KMart.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

I got an idea, how about packaging kirk in a trade for something meaningful that would help us & use a fraction of the mle to obtain a "mentor" for our bigs?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

For those who want noah and TT to play and not camby. I disagree. 

Camby is the Ben Wallace with scoring we missed out on. Also consider this, They need a player like Camby to play against during practice. I dont think, having gray vs TT, vs Noah vs Gooden in practice improves the players all that much. Camby brings us toughness at the center spot we dont have.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

I'd pull the trigger for Camby.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Hughes + Thabo for Camby?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Rhyder said:


> Hughes + Thabo for Camby?


I don't see any reason for Denver to pick up Hughes when they have AI. They need a distributor that can run an offense


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Rhyder said:


> Hughes + Thabo for Camby?


Why give away Thabo? Would much rather trade Kirk.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

If this is true,

Then once again, Paxson is a loser.

It's not that Camby wouldn't be helpful....he might.

The reason he is a loser is that no one should believe a word he says or have faith in his ability to pull off what so many dream about....2010.

Krause had a dream too - that failed and he was fired because of it.

Paxson's full of crap constantly....

These players are more than assets, then they become just assets, then are given away for crapspace.

If you are always planning for the future, you destroy the present.

For all of you Paxkissers...Wouldn't you love to see what Tyson Chandler could do with Derrick Rose?

I mean, Derrick Rose was supposedly what we were missing to make Tyson what Chris Paul made him in to.

All the same crap you guys are spewing about Camby being something (which he's not), is exactly what you were spewing when we made the horrible signing that was Benedict Wallace which then forced a trade of Chandler. I'm not a huge fan of Noah, so maybe by doing this it will "force" the trade of Noah. Another positive...see, I CAN be positive.

I believe very few of those 2010 guys will actually hit the market. There teams aren't going to just let them walk for nothing, they'd rather overpay to keep their "assets".

The only possible one is Wade - And Miami will force a sign and trade and so will Wade. This is the selfish NBA.

If Hinrich is just worth crapspace and continued non-development of our players, then Paxson is a horrible judge of talent.

Let's add it up -

Hinrich - only worth crapscape and a 2010 dream?
Gordon - not worth more than $10 million, may let him walk.
Deng - not worth more than $10 million (though I feel is). Gotta save dface and he is a great NBA citizen.
Thabo - not more than a spot player at this point.
Tyrus Thomas - who knows
Noah - who knows (and who will know if we give Camby his 25-30 mintues)
Derrick Rose - "We're going to ease him in to this"....Even Rose calls that crap. Give him the keys John.

Typing that made me more angry..again, not because all the picks are worth nothing, but because Paxson and the oprganization have done nothing to improve these guys. They have failed the players as much as the players have failed the organization. I expect 18-23 year olds to not know better, I expect an organization to do much better.

2010 - Why do I have visions of Benny the Bull at the airport consoling John Paxson..........


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

chifaninca said:


> I believe very few of those 2010 guys will actually hit the market. There teams aren't going to just let them walk for nothing, they'd rather overpay to keep their "assets".


The beauty of the 2010 plan though... is that even if the FAs dont come here, it lines up with the time when you would be re-signing your own currently younger guys. And then you might be able to S&T for bigger talent, and all that good stuff.


Also, you said the Heat could force a S&T of Wade.... but in those, the key thing is the "S"... Wade would have to sign, so they cant force him to do ****. Especially a player of his caliber can dictate what he wants when on the open market. He can decide where he'd want to go, which gives us a chance.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Sign Who?

Resign Camby? Hughes? or other expiring old guys who aren't gonna make us a winner?

My point is, let these guys develop, find a role and gel. You drafted them for a reason, and that reason wasn't to be traded for cap space......unless you're an idiot GM.

All I'm asking is that you bring back real talent, that if they develop a real contributing role, they are worth resigning if no one else wants to come play for crapspace Johnny.

Hinrich is worth more than just crapspace. Deng, Gordon, Tyrus and even Noah are worth more than crapspace and dream.


We are becoming the Memphis Grizzlies because of McHale esque GM.

Was McHale a genius because he got Al Jefferson? No. So John Paxson isn't a genius for landing Derrick Rose and bunch of guys that are worth not much mroe than Crap space.

PS - I think I have set a personal record for the use of "Crapspace"...........

Go Bulls!

Wise up Johnny. Like yuor drafted players, you need to start to show more than potential!


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

P to the Wee said:


> Why give away Thabo? Would much rather trade Kirk.


Kirk < Thabo?

Good god does one bad season a player make. If that's the attitude, why are we going with any young players?


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

I like you, Rhyder. Always the voice of reason.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Rhyder said:


> Kirk < Thabo?
> 
> Good god does one bad season a player make. If that's the attitude, why are we going with any young players?


Thabo's contract is cheaper and he has more potential. I don't think Hinrich has anymore upside. Hinrich will be the same(2006-2007 season) for the next 6 seasons. Maybe improve slightly but not too much. Once Thabo develops a jumpshot, he can be better than Hinrich.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

I'm also pro Thabo because I've spoken with him a few times.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

No discredit meant to Thabo by me, by the way. I just think there's a lot of dumping on Kirk (and all of our players, really) after last season. It was an abomination, yes, but to see those versions of our players as the type of player they really are is to be a bit silly, I'd say.

I dunno. It's still a long way till the season starts. Should be interesting.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

camby for hinrich. i know camby is moving but didnt picture him in chicago. im cool with it for the nuggets


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Question to you Denver fans.

1) Who plays C if Camby goes?
2) Why so eager to get rid of Camby?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

P to the Wee said:


> I'm also pro Thabo because I've spoken with him a few times.


At least you admit you're biased


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

I hope this gets done.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

I agree with those who believe that favoring Thabo over Kirk (who made Second Team All-D two seasons ago) may be a little premature. However, to bring back a significant player that can help us this year, clear up room in the extremely crowded backcourt, and keep us under the luxury tax (not ideal, but just a fact), Hinrich has to be the one to go especially if we plan on paying Rose, Deng, Tyrus (my new perceived "core"). Camby still has decent value. He's a potential DPOY and he's got good size at the 5 spot and isn't an absolutle zero on the offensive end like Wallace was. 

Tyrus needs a big C to be effective and somebody who can take some pressure off of him in the post. Noah isn't a great scorer but I believe is ideal as a 3rd big. We could go quick with Tyrus and Noah or big with Noah and Camby. No sense is keeping Rose on the bench in his first year. He isn't a rookie NFL QB. He needs to play and build confidence. 

I still think Nocioni and Gooden can bring back something decent in a trade if need be and we can run with...

Rose/Hughes/Deng/Thomas/Camby---Gordon/Sefolosha/Noah plus whoever we acquire with Nocioni and Gooden or just hang onto Nocioni and Gooden and go 10 deep.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

george said:


> Camby is on the wrong side of 30, not a good trade.


what does that even mean? the last couple of years, camby has had career seasons. he gets better with age. hes probably an all-star in the east. he has just 2 seasons left on a really sexy contract.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

P to the Wee said:


> Question to you Denver fans.
> 
> 1) Who plays C if Camby goes?
> 2) Why so eager to get rid of Camby?


1) nene
2) because we need somebody to pair up with iverson and hinrich is perfect. plus, nene is a better player than camby. he actually brings a solid post game and can defend the post as well. camby does neither...


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## george (Aug 8, 2003)

pac4eva5 said:


> 1) nene
> 2) because we need somebody to pair up with iverson and hinrich is perfect. plus, nene is a better player than camby. he actually brings a solid post game and can defend the post as well. camby does neither...


That is why the bulls should ask for Nene instead of Camby.


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## george (Aug 8, 2003)

pac4eva5 said:


> what does that even mean? the last couple of years, camby has had career seasons. he gets better with age. hes probably an all-star in the east. he has just 2 seasons left on a really sexy contract.



Camby is 34 years old. He has max 2 decent years left, I don't think the Bulls are going to be competing for ECF anytime soon, that is why Nene is a better long term plan. That cap space is not going to net them anything when Camby deal is over, they are going to have to resign their own players at the same time.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

george said:


> That is why the bulls should ask for Nene instead of Camby.


denver doesnt do it.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Hinrich for Camby and Atkins?

PG: Derrick Rose...Chris Duhon (?)...Chucky Atkins
SG: Ben Gordon...Larry Hughes...Thabo Sefolosha
SF: Luol Deng...Andres Nocioni
PF: Joakim Noah...Tyrus Thomas...Cedric Simmons
C: Marcus Camby...Drew Gooden...Aaron Gray

It's not winning a championship, but Camby is an even better C in the East.


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

If Kirk goes, who will support Rose at the point? Gordon? Thabo?

I doubt Rose will start and get big minutes immediately. 

Gordon and Thabo imo are not cut out to play the point big time.

Camby is approaching the twilight of his career, do we really need his guidance on Tyrus, Gray, Noah and Gooden? 

PJ Brown, Joe Smith and Big Ben have been here and done that........and i don't see any drastic changes to our front court.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Hinrich for Camby and Atkins?
> 
> PG: Derrick Rose...Chris Duhon (?)...Chucky Atkins
> SG: Ben Gordon...Larry Hughes...Thabo Sefolosha
> ...


We definitely are starting Tyrus with the way Del ***** and Pax talk. I think they see a Nash/Stoudamire type relationship between the two. And I'd be surprised if we kept Gordon starting ahead of Hughes or Sefolosha, because Gordon's been best when he's come off the bench. Plus we still go 10 deep there. It isn't a bad problem to have, but I feel like we may end up with one or two guys *****ing.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Get it done Pax!!


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I think adding a guy like Camby for Hinrich would be great... if it was 2001.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Dornado said:


> I think adding a guy like Camby for Hinrich would be great... if it was 2001.


Exactly. Isn't Camby older right now than Big Ben was when we got him?


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Add Camby, get Brand...

Rose
Gordon/Hughes/Thabo/Whatever
Deng
Brand/Tyrus
Camby/Noah

o_o


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

liekomgj4ck said:


> Exactly. Isn't Camby older right now than Big Ben was when we got him?


Yes but Camby is 4 inches taller, has great length, offensive game and is a great passer.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

bullybullz said:


> Yes but Camby is 4 inches taller, has great length, offensive game and is a great passer.


Alright, well I guess if we can't sign anyone else that has decent size and is better. I just don't want another $0 million dollar mistake


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

bullybullz said:


> Yes but Camby is 4 inches taller, has great length, offensive game and is a great passer.


Alright, well I guess if we can't sign anyone else that has decent size and is better. I just don't want another $60 million dollar mistake


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

I'd to this deal as well I'm Chicago; both players fill needs for respective teams. Kirk in Denver takes A.I off the ball and gives them their guard. Marcus in Chicago gives us the defensive center that we thought we had in Wallace and although he's 34, he seemed to get better with age. If you disagree, look at his numbers over the last five years. So, it's a good trade for both teams.


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