# Would you consider trading the 13th pick for JR Smith?



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

He's an athlete and he has a good jumpshot, he's 6'7. Of course he has a ton of bad things too, he's not a good defender, is being knocked for having a poor work ethic, and falls in love with his jumpshot, and doesn't use his athleticism to his advantage. He's still very young (what 20? 21?) and could turn into something.

Would you be willing to make this move? Especially if you know the team will be bad anyway next year?


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Hmm thats a good question. I say if we trade A.I. and Webb than I would pull the trigger and get J.R.. However if were keeping those two than I draft a more NBA ready player. Probably a college senior. I don't like what I've heard about J.R., but with this draft class being soo weak he has a higher ceiling than anyone we would see at 13.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

I would do that in a heart beat


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## Cornrow Wallace (Aug 22, 2005)

I don't know...It's not like we'll get anything better in the draft, though.


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## pmga (Mar 12, 2006)

For some reason I don't like Smith's game. He shoots jump shots too much. We want a player ready to contribute to bring us back to play off caliber team. If you'll have to wait for Smith to change his ways it'd be better, in my opinion, to draft a young rookie.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

whats out there thats better


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Personally, I think JR Smith is better than the wing players in this draft. There's no question of that in my mind, and if he was in this draft there's a good chance he would be a top five pick.

Remember last season he was the rookie of the month from January through March, he was playing outstanding basketball. He shoots a low percentage, but that has to do with shot selection. I think it'd be a great investment.


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## pmga (Mar 12, 2006)

That's because the West didn't have any good enough rookies to compete with him last season except for Devin Harris.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

rookie of the month is rookie of the month. Im not sure its broken out by conference or not. you still didnt answer the question. What rookie swingmen coming in is better?


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## pmga (Mar 12, 2006)

Woops. I didn't know it was a question for it lacked a question mark.

Ronnie Brewer is good, Mardy Collins, Rodney Carney, for wingmen that we can draft.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

No, he would just be another player that would cause chemistry problems.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

what in the draft is better?


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

People are ignoring the fact that Byron Scott also had problems with Jason Kidd, and Richard Jefferson neither of those guys are problems in NJ. I just read an article where it said Byron Scott just cuts off people and doesn't communicate with them, and catches grudges quickly.

Personally I'd take JR Smith over Rodney Carney, Adam Morrison, and Rudy Gay if he were in this draft.

Also as far as I know there's no East and West rookies of the month, it's just an overall award.


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## Vermillion (Mar 23, 2004)

I would do it without question.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Sure, why not.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

I would rather have Brandon Roy but we prolly wont get a chance at him, if we did i wouldnt even consider JR Smith as I think Roy will turn out to be a lot better. They are really trying to get rid of smith there has got to be another way for us to get him then given up this pick. hell they might even take salmons for him hahaha :biggrin:


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

I think J.R Smith would be most effective on the break, and the fact that he's not a good defender. If we want to return to our post-LB days, then we had certainly better start right now, no to smith.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Route I-76 said:


> I would rather have Brandon Roy but we prolly wont get a chance at him, if we did i wouldnt even consider JR Smith as I think Roy will turn out to be a lot better. They are really trying to get rid of smith there has got to be another way for us to get him then given up this pick. hell they might even take salmons for him hahaha :biggrin:


 Brandon Roy plays defense and thats all that hes better at than JR Smith. Roy is neither the athlete or shooter that Smith has shown to be


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

I've had enough of our no defense teams. I think that I would turn this deal down also, maybe if they took on a horrible contract like Korver's and gave us a pick in return but 13th for Smith straight up doesn't work for me.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Mattjb34 said:


> I've had enough of our no defense teams. I think that I would turn this deal down also, maybe if they took on a horrible contract like Korver's and gave us a pick in return but 13th for Smith straight up doesn't work for me.


 You arent telling me why not? We need as many athletes and talented young guys as possible whether they play D or not. No one in this thread has dropped a name worth relevance as to where we pick and 2 anyone that is or could be better than JR at this point


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> You arent telling me why not? We need as many athletes and talented young guys as possible whether they play D or not. No one in this thread has dropped a name worth relevance as to where we pick and 2 anyone that is or could be better than JR at this point


Ha are you kidding? What has J.R. Smith done that is soo good that it can't be matched? What, the 7.7 points in 18 minutes on less than 40% shooting can't be matched? That's down from his rookie season b/c he has somehow rubbed his coach the wrong way in the 1 1/2 years he's been in the league. How is that even possible? Sure he can shoot and is athletic but stockpiling young guys doesn't work all the time. The Clippers, Hawks and Bulls had tons of young talent that was immature and never worked out until they brought in the right guys. I swear I will quite watching the Sixers if they play worse D than they did this year. Bringing in this guy isn't going to help that, and I'm not sure he will help at all. In this upcoming draft, looking at the guys that should be around in our range according to nbadraft.net, I would rather have Mardy Collins, Shelden Williams, Marcus Williams from AZ, Hilton Armstrong and maybe even Mo Ager.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Yet you ignore the point I made about Byron Scott also having problems with Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson. Those are two ideal team players. The fact of the matter is Byron Scott has the ability to rub people the wrong way, and when he does the rift widens because Scott won't apologize he'll just cut that player off.

The reason this year's Sixers team was so bad defensively was because there was no chemistry. Also the combination of Iverson and Webber was horrendous on the defensive side of the ball, if Iverson is moved and we get a PG that pressures the opposing PG and doesn't let them just get right into their offense the defense would improved ten fold just off that alone. JR Smith is a bad defender, but he's not worse than Kyle Korver. One player will not make this team's defense worse than last year's unit, the same way one player won't make it better.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

Coatesvillain said:


> People are ignoring the fact that Byron Scott also had problems with Jason Kidd, and Richard Jefferson neither of those guys are problems in NJ. I just read an article where it said Byron Scott just cuts off people and doesn't communicate with them, and catches grudges quickly.


Why doesn't Byron Scott have problems with Chris Paul or PJ Brown or anyone else then? Not even Kirk Snyder who was a problem in Utah is causing him problems. Jason Kidd isn't Mr. Sunshine (remember he beat his wife) and Richard Jefferson will always support him for making his career. I read an article saying Allen Iverson is the best player in the NBA, not everything in an article is true and words can be used in context etc.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Coatesvillain said:


> The reason this year's Sixers team was so bad defensively was because there was no chemistry. Also the combination of Iverson and Webber was horrendous on the defensive side of the ball, if Iverson is moved and we get a PG that pressures the opposing PG and doesn't let them just get right into their offense the defense would improved ten fold just off that alone. JR Smith is a bad defender, but he's not worse than Kyle Korver. One player will not make this team's defense worse than last year's unit, the same way one player won't make it better.


Agreed, JR Smith can't be worse than Korver but I don't think he's much better either. Why would we double our problem of bringing him him in then when we have guys like Korver who can't play D, it's only compounding the problem. One player does make the defense worst because it creates matchup problems in which the rest of the team has to help because the on ball defender can't lock down his man. Of course one player makes it better, it won't take us from worst to first but it definitely will make a difference. I'm not saying I'm anti-JR Smith, I really wanted the Sixers to draft him the year he came out, but at this point seeing what this team needs, he is not it in my opinion.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Kunlun said:


> Why doesn't Byron Scott have problems with Chris Paul or PJ Brown or anyone else then? Not even Kirk Snyder who was a problem in Utah is causing him problems. Jason Kidd isn't Mr. Sunshine (remember he beat his wife) and Richard Jefferson will always support him for making his career. I read an article saying Allen Iverson is the best player in the NBA, not everything in an article is true and words can be used in context etc.


It's not one article Kunlun. What's your opinion on how he froze out Arvydas Macijaukas? To the point where he didn't even talk to the guy to say hi, absolutely no communication at all. Just because he has a good relationship with other players doesn't mean he doesn't freeze out players on his team and puts them in the doghouse. He also had major problems with Baron Davis and Jamaal Magloire when they were on the team last season.



Mattjb34 said:


> Agreed, JR Smith can't be worse than Korver but I don't think he's much better either. Why would we double our problem of bringing him him in then when we have guys like Korver who can't play D, it's only compounding the problem.


You wouldn't be doubling your problem because you'd be taking away from the minutes Korver gets. Korver overall is a bad defensive player, but if he's not going over a certain amount of minutes a night the effort he puts out on that end pays off.



> One player does make the defense worst because it creates matchup problems in which the rest of the team has to help because the on ball defender can't lock down his man. Of course one player makes it better, it won't take us from worst to first but it definitely will make a difference. I'm not saying I'm anti-JR Smith, I really wanted the Sixers to draft him the year he came out, but at this point seeing what this team needs, he is not it in my opinion.


I don't agree that one player will ultimately make a difference, especially when the whole unit was lackadasical. Defense is something that's brought upon by coaching, if you brought another good defender in the mix but the rest of the players didn't care.. you're still going to get torched. Defense is something that is heavily reliant on chemistry, which the Sixers had none of this season.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Coatesvillain said:


> I don't agree that one player will ultimately make a difference, especially when the whole unit was lackadasical. Defense is something that's brought upon by coaching, if you brought another good defender in the mix but the rest of the players didn't care.. you're still going to get torched. Defense is something that is heavily reliant on chemistry, which the Sixers had none of this season.


Ok, so if we lack chemistry we just shouldn't play defense at all? Lets just go out and get the worst defensive players that can score b/c we don't have chemistry? Doesn't make sense to me. The progress towards getting a better defensive teams starts with the personnel, once we get better defensive players they can form chemistry. Another Kyle Korver is not the answer to our team needs. Usually I agree with the best player available mentality but this guy hasn't shown much of anything. For a shooter you should be able to knock down 40% of your attempts, this guy hasn't yet. Why do we need a player to replace Korver's 20 minutes when Smith is the same kind of player?


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Mattjb34 said:


> Ok, so if we lack chemistry we just shouldn't play defense at all? Lets just go out and get the worst defensive players that can score b/c we don't have chemistry? Doesn't make sense to me. The progress towards getting a better defensive teams starts with the personnel, once we get better defensive players they can form chemistry.


Every team has bad defensive players, I don't see how JR Smith is any worse of a defender than Rip Hamilton was prior to going to Detroit. Why was it then, it seemed like he was a better defender in Detroit than he was in Washington? It was because of the different scheme and who he was playing along with.. also having a shot blocker behind him made a difference. Who was the shotblocker in New Orleans, that helped JR Smith?

People are infatuated with the 2001 Sixers and think that everyone needs to be a top notch defender, that's rarely if ever going to happen. Proper coaching can cover up for a player's shortcomings and weaknesses on defense.

Another thing when people decry JR Smith for his defense they forget that he's only what.. 19/20 years old? The player he is right now, isn't neccessarily who he'll be at the end of his contract.



> Another Kyle Korver is not the answer to our team needs. Usually I agree with the best player available mentality but this guy hasn't shown much of anything. For a shooter you should be able to knock down 40% of your attempts, this guy hasn't yet. Why do we need a player to replace Korver's 20 minutes when Smith is the same kind of player?


JR Smith is a better player than Korver, he's not a Kyle Korver. He hasn't showed much of anything? Then why was he the rookie of the month for three straight months in a rather strong rookie class? Smith is a better scorer and can do more with the basketball than Korver, and his athleticism allows him to do things Korver can't because of his stiff hips and lack of mobility.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

I don't really agree with anything that you've said, so with that in mind lets agree to disagree. If I were BK than I wouldn't pull the trigger on the trade, bottomline.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Mattjb34 said:


> I don't really agree with anything that you've said, so with that in mind lets agree to disagree. If I were BK than I wouldn't pull the trigger on the trade, bottomline.


 It seems you dont agree because you dont have a basis to refute what Coatesvillian just said. Mardy Collins wont be a great defender at the NBA level because hes not that quick. His speed is reminicent of John Salmons. Actually his game reminds me of John Salmons. Williams from AZ wont be in this draft and is not a better player or would have a better career than JR Smith will. Im not a fan of Shelden Williams and your reaching with Ager.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> It seems you dont agree because you dont have a basis to refute what Coatesvillian just said. Mardy Collins wont be a great defender at the NBA level because hes not that quick. His speed is reminicent of John Salmons. Actually his game reminds me of John Salmons. Williams from AZ wont be in this draft and is not a better player or would have a better career than JR Smith will. Im not a fan of Shelden Williams and your reaching with Ager.


I've already refuted the same points multiple times. Mardy Collins won't be good b/c he isn't quick? If you watched him once than you would know that all he has is quickness, he lacks pure speed and shooting ability. John Salmons comparison is doubtful b/c he is a better ball handler and passer. He is almost a 2-1 asst/to ratio against a top 25 schedule. Plus he was close to leading the nation in steal with almost 3 a game. Yeah he must be real slow. His frame is comparable to Salmons but thats it (p.s. Johnny Salmons was at my YMCA game tonight, weird). In terms of Marcus Williams I just took the name off nbadraft.net, not sure what his status is, like I said. Ager is predicted to be a sleeper by Chris Ford among others, the things I like about his is his court smarts, athleticism, shooting range and finishing ability. Not to mention he played for one of the best coaches in the college ranks. Oh yeah, I forgot your a pro scout and could predict the future of JR Smith. You better acquire a contract from BK b/c you know this kid is better than everyone in the draft.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Mattjb34 said:


> I've already refuted the same points multiple times. Mardy Collins won't be good b/c he isn't quick? If you watched him once than you would know that all he has is quickness, he lacks pure speed and shooting ability. John Salmons comparison is doubtful b/c he is a better ball handler and passer. He is almost a 2-1 asst/to ratio against a top 25 schedule. Plus he was close to leading the nation in steal with almost 3 a game. Yeah he must be real slow. His frame is comparable to Salmons but thats it (p.s. Johnny Salmons was at my YMCA game tonight, weird). In terms of Marcus Williams I just took the name off nbadraft.net, not sure what his status is, like I said. Ager is predicted to be a sleeper by Chris Ford among others, the things I like about his is his court smarts, athleticism, shooting range and finishing ability. Not to mention he played for one of the best coaches in the college ranks. Oh yeah, I forgot your a pro scout and could predict the future of JR Smith. You better acquire a contract from BK b/c you know this kid is better than everyone in the draft.


Your comment would have some validity if I didnt see Mardy just about every other day. Hes not that fast and he'll be the first to tell you that. He has a quick first step but hes not fast. Also dont act as if the best ball handlers in the world played in the A-10 much less the country. The matchup zone still causes alot of confusion for other teams. Im not downgrading Mardy at all but dont make him out to be more than what he is. As far as My basis for JR Smith is that his upside and skill set is better than any other wing player in this draft besides Gay and thats debateable. I dont have to be a Pro scout to know what is and whats not so you can keep it moving with that lil slick comment as well.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> Your comment would have some validity if I didnt see Mardy just about every other day. Hes not that fast and he'll be the first to tell you that. He has a quick first step but hes not fast. Also dont act as if the best ball handlers in the world played in the A-10 much less the country. The matchup zone still causes alot of confusion for other teams. Im not downgrading Mardy at all but dont make him out to be more than what he is. As far as My basis for JR Smith is that his upside and skill set is better than any other wing player in this draft besides Gay and thats debateable. I dont have to be a Pro scout to know what is and whats not so you can keep it moving with that lil slick comment as well.


First of all that's exactly what I said, Mardy Collins has quickness, not speed. When I refered to his schedule, I wasn't talking about the A-10. I was talking about him playing against UCLA, Miami, Alabama, Nova, Maryland, South Carolina, and Duke. Top 25 competition. You watch a lot of the Hornets? How can analyze Smith's skill set when he plays less than 20 minutes a game? The topic was would you trade the 13th pick for Smith, I wouldn't. I'd rather get a player with a bigger upside or skill defensively, thats my answer.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Mattjb34 said:


> First of all that's exactly what I said, Mardy Collins has quickness, not speed. When I refered to his schedule, I wasn't talking about the A-10. I was talking about him playing against UCLA, Miami, Alabama, Nova, Maryland, South Carolina, and Duke. Top 25 competition. You watch a lot of the Hornets? How can analyze Smith's skill set when he plays less than 20 minutes a game? The topic was would you trade the 13th pick for Smith, I wouldn't.* I'd rather get a player with a bigger upside or skill defensively, thats my answer.*





Exactly and this is a weak draft, and there are not many wing players in this draft with a higher upside than JR Smith


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> [/b]
> 
> 
> Exactly and this is a weak draft, and there are not many wing players in this draft with a higher upside than JR Smith


I don't really want a wing player. I'd rather have a point guard or, if the oppurtunity arises, a post player.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

same here. Im just looking at best available and there will be a plethra of PG's in this draft but not many impact big men


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

If any big men. The only ones remarkably good are Lamarcus Aldridge and Rudy Gay. But if you'd like to take a sleeper Uconn's Josh Boone was consistant in the NCAA tournament, pulling down an average of 6 boards.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Rudy Gay is not a big man


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

There is a rookie of the month for both conferences.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Thanks HKF


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

Coatesvillain said:


> It's not one article Kunlun. What's your opinion on how he froze out Arvydas Macijaukas? To the point where he didn't even talk to the guy to say hi, absolutely no communication at all. Just because he has a good relationship with other players doesn't mean he doesn't freeze out players on his team and puts them in the doghouse. He also had major problems with Baron Davis and Jamaal Magloire when they were on the team last season.


My opinion on Arvydas Macijaukas is that he sucks in the NBA and that's why he doesn't get playing time. If he was good enough to play and contribute to the Hornets I think he would've gotten some decent playing time by now. He's too old to improve and he's too slow to play and he thinks he should be on the floor. I would ignore a guy like that as well, especially one who sucks and has no place on my team. Baron Davis and Jamal Magloire aren't doing so great on their new teams are they? Baron doesn't even start sometimes and Jamal is lost half the time he's playing.

Are you telling me that JR Smith has done absolutely NOTHING wrong to get the cold shoulder from Coach Scott?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Kunlun said:


> My opinion on Arvydas Macijaukas is that he sucks in the NBA and that's why he doesn't get playing time. If he was good enough to play and contribute to the Hornets I think he would've gotten some decent playing time by now. He's too old to improve and he's too slow to play and he thinks he should be on the floor. I would ignore a guy like that as well, especially one who sucks and has no place on my team. Baron Davis and Jamal Magloire aren't doing so great on their new teams are they? Baron doesn't even start sometimes and Jamal is lost half the time he's playing.
> 
> Are you telling me that JR Smith has done absolutely NOTHING wrong to get the cold shoulder from Coach Scott?


 You are entirely missing the point. Regardless if the guy is good or not, hes paid to COACH, and ignoring players is not coaching. Whether Baron Davis or Maglooire have played well or not with they're respective teams means nothing when in 2 stops Byron Scott has alienated players from Superstars to nobodies such as Macijaukas. Its all relative, and it wouldnt makes sense to not pick up a player that didnt get along with Scott, knowing his track record.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

BEEZ said:


> You are entirely missing the point. Regardless if the guy is good or not, hes paid to COACH, and ignoring players is not coaching. Whether Baron Davis or Maglooire have played well or not with they're respective teams means nothing when in 2 stops Byron Scott has alienated players from Superstars to nobodies such as Macijaukas. Its all relative, and it wouldnt makes sense to not pick up a player that didnt get along with Scott, knowing his track record.


It just happens that the players that Scott has alienated aren't so hot no matter what team they are on. So it means he made the right choice. Please don't tell me Maucijaukas will explode on another team. The players he alienates think they are better than they really are and he punishes them for it, in his own style.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

So Jason Kidd isnt that great, Richard Jefferson isnt that great. Baron Davis for the 1st quarter of the past season played very very well. Baron not playing great has nothing to do with Scott. Thats just what Baron Davis does. When did I say Maucijaukas was any good. I said in my post that I thought he was a nobody. His style doesnt work. AS a coach, he thinks hes better than what he is


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

BEEZ said:


> So Jason Kidd isnt that great, Richard Jefferson isnt that great. Baron Davis for the 1st quarter of the past season played very very well. Baron not playing great has nothing to do with Scott. Thats just what Baron Davis does. When did I say Maucijaukas was any good. I said in my post that I thought he was a nobody. His style doesnt work. AS a coach, he thinks hes better than what he is


Like I said earlier, Jason Kidd isn't an angel, he's had problems with the law before. Richard Jefferson would back Kidd up no matter what, so far he owes his NBA career to him.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

There's never an excuse for a coach to not communicate with one of his players. A big part of a coach's job is communication. Coaches won't get along with everyone, but to not even communicate with even the worst player in basketball (not saying Macijauskas is, but I'm using this as an example) if he's on your team.. you aren't doing your job.

Also how is Macijauskas too old? He's only 26 years old.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Byron Scott is a enigma to me. It seems like his teams do well, but he gets a lot of negative press. The Nets went to the finals a couple of years but then it was reported that the team's success was due to Eddie Jordan and Lawerence Frank so Scott got fired. This years Hornets team did better than expected, but there have been constant reports arguments and bad communication from this guy and the whole J.R. Smith thing. I don't think I would ever want him to be my teams coach, but some of his teams have done better than expected. BTW, I could be way off on this whole issue, I really haven't been following it closely at all. Just my two cents.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Also they had all those reports from New Jersey saying he didn't watch film, and didn't show up to all practices. I can't call it really.


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