# Could Phil Jackson make the TWolves into a champion?



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

That is the question. Could Phil Jackson make the Minnesota Timberwolves into a champion? Just like he did in Chicago and LA with the Bulls and Lakers.



My vote it NO:


Flip Saunders is just as good of coach and probably is the right fit with the Wolves. With the personel they have now Phil Jackson would not make them a better basketball team. Phil Jackson teaches Super Stars how to get along. And since the Wolves only have one real super star I don't think having the great Phil Jackson would do anything to improve the team in the playoffs.

When it comes down to it Flip is one of the best X's and O's coaches in the NBA. And since the Wolves have less that great offensive talent as far as creating your own shot goes I thin Flip is the better fit.


So what do you think, if Phil was on the Wolves this year would they really be that much better with the personel they have?


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

What a silly post. Of course Phil would make the T-Wolves better than they are now. Phil could atleast get K-G into the second round of the playoffs, something Saunders hasn't done 6 years in a row.


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## King Alley (Mar 19, 2003)

Maybe if he got another star to help out KG.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> What a silly post. Of course Phil would make the T-Wolves better than they are now. Phil could atleast get K-G into the second round of the playoffs, something Saunders hasn't done 6 years in a row.


Why is this post silly? I actually agree with Ozzy. There really isnt a better X and O's coach in the league outside of Saunders so why would Phil be able to???


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King Alley</b>!
> Maybe if he got another star to help out KG.


I actually think Phil would bring out the best in KG. We would see a KG that we have never seen before. Phil is the master modivater and the sky would be the limit if KG had him as a coach.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Why is this post silly? I actually agree with Ozzy. There really isnt a better X and O's coach in the league outside of Saunders so why would Phil be able to???


Phil is the master motivater. It isn't about X's and O's it's about how he gets into his stars players head and makes them work harder then they ever have. KG would become a much more dominating force on both sides of the ball if Phil was his coach. Saunders hasn't done much up in Minny with arguably the most talented player in the league.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

So some of you think it is obvious that he would help? 

So if Phil was the coach of the Wolves this year you actually think he would make them a better overall team? Remember I'm saying that Phil has the exact same players that Flip has, no one else.

Phil has never,ever proved he can win a championship without star players. Heck the past two teams he has had the best player in the league!


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> So some of you think it is obvious that he would help?
> 
> So if Phil was the coach of the Wolves this year you actually think he would make them a better overall team? Remember I'm saying that Phil has the exact same players that Flip has, no one else.
> ...


Hello? KG is a star player.


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## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

Sure he could make them champions......if he takes Kobe and Shaq with him.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> I actually think Phil would bring out the best in KG. We would see a KG that we have never seen before. Phil is the master modivater and the sky would be the limit if KG had him as a coach.


 What? How could KG get any better than he already is? Remember Phil did not really make Shaq or MJ great. He just gave them the knowledge of passing the ball and helping teammates and not being a ball hog. Sure he is a great motivator but I don't think he would change the Wolves as a team that much. 


Just look at the talent Phil had on the Bulls and Lakers....


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## 3PeatComplete (Jul 11, 2002)

Champions, no. A better team, I think so.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> What? How could KG get any better than he already is? Remember Phil did not really make Shaq or MJ great. He just gave them the knowledge of passing the ball and helping teammates and not hog the ball. Sure he is a great motivator but I don't think he would be that great on the Wolves.
> 
> 
> Just look at the talent Phil had on the Bulls and Lakers....


Phil would do amazing things with the players you think of as scrubs. And just because KG wouldn't put up bigger stats wouldn't mean he wouldn't have improved. You say how Jackson didn't make Jordan, Kobe, or Shaq the great players they are but he did make them understand what it takes to be champions.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

You guys do take into consideration the offense Flip has created in Minnesota don't you?


Every single PG he has had succeeded! Troy, Rod, Chauncey, Terrell etc. He has created a offense with less that spectacular offensive talent. No one on the team can create their own shot really but they still put up points.

Phil has shown the ability to blend two super stars together but he has not shown the ability to win at a high level with just one super star.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> You guys do take into consideration the offense Flip has created in Minnesota don't you?
> 
> 
> ...


Well, Phil did lead a Jordanless Bulls team with Pippen as their leader almost to the Eastern Conference Finals.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> You say how Jackson didn't make Jordan, Kobe, or Shaq the great players they are but he did make them understand what it takes to be champions.


 Your right he did do that, but he blended the talent, he made MJ and Scottie understand they need each other, and he made Shaq and Kobe understand as well. But if he did not have two great players he never would have won a championship! And win Minnesota he only has one great player.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Ok then your saying the Wolves lack of success is because of Flip?


You put Flip on the freaking Lakers I think he can motivate them, maybe not at the same level Phil can but Flip would win a title with the Lakers if he was the coach. Why else did the Blazers want him so bad.....


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Your right he did do that, but he blended the talent, he made MJ and Scottie understand they need each other, and he made Shaq and Kobe understand as well. But if he did not have two great players he never would have won a championship! And win Minnesota he only has one great player.


So, what is your point? All I said it that Phil would make the T-Wolves a better team, with Phil as their coach they might be able to have success like the Spurs are having with only one Superstar. And if it wasn't for horrible moves by your GM, KG might have had that number two guy that is needed to contend for a championship.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

So you think the mindset of the Wolves is the reason they fail? Because sure as hell it is not playcalling or coaching!


And forget about GM moves, just focus on the coaches...


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Ok then your saying the Wolves lack of success is because of Flip?
> 
> 
> You put Flip on the freaking Lakers I think he can motivate them, maybe not at the same level Phil can but Flip would win a title with the Lakers if he was the coach. Why else did the Blazers want him so bad.....


I don't think Flip would win a title in LA. If he was coach I doubt the Lakers would have ever turned the corner like they did in Febuary this season. So if you are going to speculate Flip's success in LA, I will to and I feel that Flip would have been lucky to make it as the 8th seed this year in LA.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> So you think the mindset of the Wolves is the reason they fail? Because sure as hell it is not playcalling or coaching!
> 
> 
> And forget about GM moves, just focus on the coaches...


Yes, I think it is their mindset. Why do you think every postseason everyone criticizes KG for not taking over and winning a game for his team. Phil wouldn't tolerate this like Flip does, Phil would make sure KG understands his role.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

He would lead them to a title...he has gravitas:yes:


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Enough of this pointless arguement back and forth, neither one of us are going to change our opinion.


But I still think Phil Jackson has won championship mostly because of the talent he was surrounded with. I would say 65-70% of his success is talent related, and 25-30% is his motivational abilities.


Flip on the other had has not succeeded because of the lack talent he has on his team. Sure they are pretty good but not good enough to compete for a NBA title. But the Wolves still are very productive and amazingly consistent considering the talent of the team has not really improve that much over the years. 



Sure Flip needs more talent to win, but the Wolves not getting to the 2nd round is not Flips fault.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Enough of this pointless arguement back and forth, neither one of us are going to change our opinion.
> 
> 
> ...


Good, I'm glad we are done arguing because I was getting bored with it anyway.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Me too!


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Enough of this pointless arguement back and forth, neither one of us are going to change our opinion.
> 
> 
> ...


If your intention is to praise Saunders and what he did to the Wolves, don't just singled out Phil.

If your intention is to tease Phil Jackson, don't just use Saunders as comparison.

The reason? There's no way we could know who will do better if they exchanged their positions. We could just guess, and some of us could be bias to one of them and make bias posts.

Unless your intention is to tease Phil and praise Saunders, then I don't know what to say...


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

No, Saunders is a very good coach, as is Phil, but Phil is also very overrated. He's not the best coach ever, like many claim. Some people point out that Kobe and Shaq didn't win one till he arrived, nor did MJ and Pip, but I don't think it was his doing that won the title. I think it was simply him showing up at the right place at the right time. Now, I'm not saying Kurt Rambis would've gotten the Lakers a championship, but I think there are quite a few coaches around that could've gotten those teams to accomplish what they have/are.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> No, Saunders is a very good coach, as is Phil, but Phil is also very overrated. He's not the best coach ever, like many claim. Some people point out that Kobe and Shaq didn't win one till he arrived, nor did MJ and Pip, but I don't think it was his doing that won the title. I think it was simply him showing up at the right place at the right time. Now, I'm not saying Kurt Rambis would've gotten the Lakers a championship, but I think there are quite a few coaches around that could've gotten those teams to accomplish what they have/are.


all those players just happened to learn what TEAM meant when he arrived..Learn this and realize his coaching prowess. I meant that in the nicest way.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

I don't think so. I think the Wolves don't have the talent to beat the teams they've faced in the first round. 

The reason the Lakers had such great results with Phil has as much to do with his pedigree as it does his coaching. His first year Shaq and Kobe would have eaten dirt if he told them that's what it would take. The testament to Phil's coaching shows with how quickly he turned the Lakers around. 

He's a good coach and he has amazing talent on his teams. But I don't think he's a miracle worker. I think the Wolves overachieve as it is.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> I don't think so. I think the Wolves don't have the talent to beat the teams they've faced in the first round.
> 
> The reason the Lakers had such great results with Phil has as much to do with his pedigree as it does his coaching. His first year Shaq and Kobe would have eaten dirt if he told them that's what it would take. The testament to Phil's coaching shows with how quickly he turned the Lakers around.
> ...


He would MAKE the Twolves into a champion..as the original post says.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> I don't think so. I think the Wolves don't have the talent to beat the teams they've faced in the first round.
> 
> The reason the Lakers had such great results with Phil has as much to do with his pedigree as it does his coaching. His first year Shaq and Kobe would have eaten dirt if he told them that's what it would take. The testament to Phil's coaching shows with how quickly he turned the Lakers around.
> ...


I agree. Phil's success in Los Angeles is largely attributed to his success in Chicago. 4 years ago the Lakers were looking for credibility more than anything else. With his 6 rings in Chicago PJ brought instant credibility to the team. I think his success had more to do with Shaq and Kobe wanting to play for him more than anything else. Granted he's an excellent motivator, the primary reason for this is because of his name and all of the rings he won. I think the Lakers would have responded just as well to a Pat Riley or a Chuck Daly. However, if Flip Saunders or Rick Carlisle came to LA I don't think Shaq and Kobe would have responded in the same manner. Both guys are awesome coaches but the fact is that they didn't have the same reputation as PJ did when he came to LA.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

phil jackson is only good with dominant players MJ and SHAQ.

Maybe they would be able to go to the second round with phil jackson but never in the championships.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

didn't The bulls went to the eastern conferance finals without Mike?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> didn't The bulls went to the eastern conferance finals without Mike?


No, they got to the semifinals


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

It was a great coaching job


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> It was a great coaching job


Great coaching job but with only 1 superstar he wasn't able to make it past the 2nd round. I don't see him doing much better in Minny with only 1 superstar.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> Great coaching job but with only 1 superstar he wasn't able to make it past the 2nd round. I don't see him doing much better in Minny with only 1 superstar.


the original post says MAKE the wolves into a champ...it doesn't specify a timetable.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> 
> 
> all those players just happened to learn what TEAM meant when he arrived..Learn this and realize his coaching prowess. I meant that in the nicest way.


No, that's exactly the thing I'm disagreeing with. A lot of people think that, I don't. The Lakers and Bulls were both on the verge when he arrived, I don't think he put them over the top, I think they just finally got themselves over the top. I think he's a great coach, but not nearly as good as a lot of people think. In other words, he's not even close to the best coach of all-time IMO.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

i understand what you are saying but it happened while he was there so he IS doing the right things.


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## RangerC (Sep 25, 2002)

One thing to keep in mind about Flip and the Wolves: If they were out East, they would have had a ton of playoff success the last 4 seasons (likely at least 1 trip to the finals) - hard to hold his lack of playoff success against him when he's had to face a top 4 team every season despite having a top 8 team himself. 

PJ pushes teams that are 'on the doorstep' over the top. When he took over the Bulls, they were coming off an EC finals apperance and had won multiple playoff series. When he took over the Lakers, they were coming off an WC final appearance 2 years prior and had won multiple playoff series. Minnesota hasn't been to the WC finals, and they haven't won ANY playoff series. This isn't a team that needs a nudge over the top - it's a team that, while top 6 in the NBA at worst, just doesn't match up well at all with the WC's 'Big Four'.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> i understand what you are saying but it happened while he was there so he IS doing the right things.


Yes, of course he's doing the right things. I'm just saying I don't think he's doing the right things any righter (I made up a word ) than some other guys could do them.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> That is the question. Could Phil Jackson make the Minnesota Timberwolves into a champion? Just like he did in Chicago and LA with the Bulls and Lakers.
> 
> 
> ...



You know what? Most probably, none of us will ever know if he could or couldn't make the TWolves into champions.

Speculation is like that, you know?


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## NYMIKE (Jul 19, 2002)

The year without Mike, the Bulls lost to the Knicks as Scotty Pippen was called for foul on a 3 point attempt by Hubert Davis, argubly the worst call in the NBA history. The Bulls Rockets matchup would of been fantastic as Bulls had no answer for the Dream, while Pippen would of caused some problems for the Rockets.


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## grizzoistight (Jul 16, 2002)

*The question should be could phil help tmac out of the first round*

And i would say yes!!!  i know that it would be miraculous and all..
but all tracy needs is a little zen magic and yoga.. them im sure the pressure of the big games wouldnt get too him and cause him to miss that many shots


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

*Phil Jackson?.... paleeze*

Sure he could make the T-wolves champs if Kobe and Shaq played for them. He is not that good of a coach. Jim O'Brien, now there's a coach...


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

There's no way in hell he could make the Wolves into a championship team with th eplayers they have now. He'd have teh best player in the league and a few other guys that might be the best players in the NBDL. It's amazing what they've done to actually GET to the playoffs 7 years in a row. Ya they haven't ogt out of the first round, but why doesn't anybody ever give them credit for actually making it there all these years. Flip is one of the best coaches out there. Phil had MJ and Pippen to work with in Chicago and Shaq and Kobe in LA. He would have KG in MN, and that's it. There's really no way it could happen.


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