# Clips Sign Rebraca



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

"Zeljko Rebraca will sign a one-year, $3.2 million dollar contract with Los Angeles Clippers this Monday. He had a more lucrative offer from Boston Celtics, but, as he said to Sportska Centrala today, "I want to play with a point guard such as Marko Jaric, who knows my qualities in the front court, and with whom I could reestablish myself as one of the prime centers in the NBA."


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Interesting signing by the Clippers, Rebraca might have been under the radar in FA because of his previous heart condition that limited him to 3 games last season. I hope he has overcomed that condition and can give the Clippers 100%. It is good to see that the Clippers won with the lower bid, I guess we can thank Marko Jaric for that. With this signing I am presuming it will result in not signing Clark.


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## DatSupadoopaballer (Aug 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Weasel</b>!
> Interesting signing by the Clippers, Rebraca might have been under the radar in FA because of his previous heart condition that limited him to 3 games last season. I hope he has overcomed that condition and can give the Clippers 100%. It is good to see that the Clippers won with the lower bid, I guess we can thank Marko Jaric for that. With this signing I am presuming it will result in not signing Clark.


They could still go for clark but i really like this signing. But first the clips have to sign Livingston, Chalmers, and Ross. I think Clark would be better than N'Diyae if hes healthy.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Holy crap. Thats A LOT of money for someone who hasnt played much in the nba, and never with any consistency. Dang. I dont know if i like this move. Also, isnt he only a center? Or can he also play PF? 

Dang dang dang, unless im missing something that takes up the rest of the money they had left. However, since barnes is a restricted FA, can they sign him without it counting toward their cap i wonder.. Oh well, hopefully he turns out ok. Is this guy on any olympic team?


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

To put that number into perspective, thats the same that Vin Baker will make this year under his rumored new contract. But even more amazing that the clippers would spend so much on this guy after having one bad experience with a euro-big (drobs), is that boston, who has had worse luck with euro-bigs, would be willing to offer him MORE than the clippers...


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Its hardly a bad deal. The Clippers gave him about a mill more than he's worth. Big deal. We have the money, and we wouldnt be able to get anyone else anyway(if we had given him less money) because it would only be about a mill left. 

The Clippers DID learn from the Drobo deal.

The Clippers signed Rebracca to a one year deal. He comes off the books at the end of this year. He's not going to have to be traded to clear out his salary. 

Obviously, at least one other team valued Rebracca at this price, because Boston offered more money.

I like the signing. The money doesnt mean anything to me, as either we were going to spend it on him, or we werent going to spend it at all. 

With the team working out Rebracca and Clark, I think its pretty obvious who their choice was. Both have health issues, and Rebracca's is more serious. Yet, the Clippers still signed him over Clark. 

He is a legit sized C, and actually plays like a C. He's not like Okur or Drobo that shoot from the peirmeter, and dont play D. Rebracca will bang down low on defense. He will play tough down there. Since we have Wilcox to play an athletic role to manipulate matchups, getting the big body was a smart move. A guy like Clark would be a duplicate of Wilcox, although he is a better defender. 

I dont see the point in bringing Barnes back, or why someone would be upset he's not coming back. The guy is a scrub, and there are tons of players that can do what he does. I would not mind bringing Barnes back, but I wouldnt be upset if they let him go either. We dont need him. Livingston and Jaric can play time on the wing, along with Maggette, Kittles, and Simmons. The team seems to value Quinton Ross more since they are bringing him aboard.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Peja might to like to come to the Clips now, he can play with his fellow national player in Jaric and Rebraca and can visit Divac in the city. Now, there is no player that I would trade to get him from the Clippers but there are always 2nd round picks.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

It's a good signing for the Clippers, but that is a lot of money. I can't believe he actually had a more lucrative deal on the table from the Celtics.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

The reason i mentioned barns is the clippers need another back up SG/SF to go into the season with, a scrub, just a body. Also i mentioned barnes because i was under the impression that this deal used up all of the clippers remaining money...if so, and if that restricted free agent thing counted for barnes where he wouldnt count against the cap, then i would sign him over nothing. I hope im proven wrong, but i dont like this deal at all. I dont think he can give the team 3.2 million dollars worth of production. If n'Diyaye would only get 300K or something that someone else said before, theres no way that this guy is 10 times as good as n'diyaye. This is just another thing that goes along with my 7 foot pure center thread. Guys who have big health risks, and who havent proven anything consistently in the league are given bucks because of their 7 foot stature, and the fact that they are a pure center.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Again with the 7' issue. It means nothing.

If Rebraca were only 6'11, he'd still be signe,d and he'd be given the same amount of money.

People are looking for big men period. It's not exclusive to being 7'. 

The Clippers signed Drobnjak last year to a decent deal for a few years, and he's only 6'11.

Big men period are players teams covet, and big men period get contracts for a little more than they are worth. It is not exclusive to 7'ers. 

As for needing another wing player, just a body, just a scrub. I disagree. We could use a guy, but if we do, it should be someone with some sort of substance. A guy like Barry would make sense. We already have Ross to be the scrub. 

We have 7 players for 3 perimeter spots. Every player but Chalmers can play the wing(and 1 in Kittles, Livingston, and Jaric's case). We dont need a body just to add a body. We could still use more leadership, defense, and shooting. If we can get a player that provides that, lets do it. But, we dont need another scrub on the team. If someone gets hurt, you can pickup a scrub wing player in the middle of the year. Case in point, Barnes. those players are a penny a dozen. Youcan find them anywhere you look. We dont need to add someone like that until time comes where injury means we need another body.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Yamenko, I don't see how they overpaid...Its only a one year deal, so in other words its renting him for a year. 3.2 mill aint a lot of money in todays NBA. Superstars are getting hundreds of millions of dollars.

BFreak.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Just a difference of opinion. I dont see him getting that money if he was under 7 feet. You rarely see huge gambles like this on shorter guys. 

Drobniack was recieved in a sign and trade, and unless im mistaken, it was for less money. Not to mention the fact that drob is way better than this guy. Drob was coming off of a year when he played 82 games, starting 70 of them, and previously a year where he played in 64 games. He had averaged about 10 points and 4 boards over all 82 games. Rebraca has come off of two years where he has played 24 and 30 games, averaged only about 4-5 points over those two years, with about 2.5 boards. I dont think you could say the clippers "took a chance" on drob. He was an nba starter who had just put up double digit points. However, you can say its a reach to get someone who, in the past two years hasnt even played a combined full season. 

Barry IMO is also a scrub. I consider someone who will put up less than 5 points a game a scrub. Barry is one of the ones i was referring to when i wish the clippers would have given him some of the money instead of throwing it all at this guy. Now, i hope the clippers do have some money left over somewhere, but i was under the impression that all they had left after the kittles deal was 3 million. 

I dont think that livingston can play the wing in the nba. He is one of the few true PGs. Also, the clippers always have 14-15 players on the team. But now, their under contract players will be: Kaman, Rebraca, Brand, Wilcox, Magette, Simmons, Jaric, Kittles, Livingston, Chalmers. Thats only 10 players. Again: I hope im missing something, and the clippers do have more money than the 3 million that the La Times article a while back said. If not, theyre going to have trouble signing 3-4 more people to fill up the roster since they spent all the money on rebraca. 

Blazer freak, i think its over paying for someone who has played so little the last couple of years. There have been overpaid people this summer, but if you look at some of the others, vin baker making 3.5 million, dampier, possibly signing for the MLE, there are players 10 times as productive as this guy, but making about the same..


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Where is the article from? It was posted here a couple days ago, but still no mention of it on clippers.com nor the la times, etc.

Also, is that a typo, or did he say he wanted to "RE"establish himself as one of the prime centers in the NBA? When was it established in the first place that he was a prime center? The only time in his career he played more than 70 games, he only started 4 of them. Hes never been the prime center on his team, let alone the nba.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> 
> Drobniack was recieved in a sign and trade, and unless im mistaken, it was for less money.


We gave up a 2nd round pick just so Seattle would not match his contract. His deal averages 3mill per, so its pretty similar to Rebraca's deal. I believe Drobo received 2.5 last year.




> Not to mention the fact that drob is way better than this guy.


Hardly.

Rebraca's career #'s are VERY similar to Drobnjak. The one area Drobnjak is better at is shooting from the perimeter. Rebraca is a better defender, better rebounder, shoots a considerably higher %, and most importantly, he actually is willing to bang in the paint. Drobnjak is a SF with the mobility and size of a C. 

They are similar players in terms of overall value, just that one is an actual C, and one is not. I'll take the guy thats willing to play in the paint.

While you can point to durability as an issue, I dont think it is a big deal with a player that had a heart condition. I mean, its not like he is injury prone as a player. While the heart issue is more serious, I dont consider it being injury prone. More importantly, with the Clippers working him out and giving him this money, I think its safe to assume Rebraca has been cleared by his doctors and Clippers doctors, so it won't be an issue. 

Other than that, I'll take Rebraca every day of the week over Drobnjak.



> Barry IMO is also a scrub. I consider someone who will put up less than 5 points a game a scrub. Barry is one of the ones i was referring to when i wish the clippers would have given him some of the money instead of throwing it all at this guy. Now, i hope the clippers do have some money left over somewhere, but i was under the impression that all they had left after the kittles deal was 3 million.


Barry is not a scrub. PT and situation have as much to do with actual numbers as anything. You dont judge a player solely on stats. Barry is a solid shooter, a great defender, good ball handler, and a good leader. That is not a scrub by ANY stretch. Scrubs are Matt Barnes, Quinton Ross ... Not quality veteran players who bring a variety of skills.

There was no way to get Rebraca and Barry for that 3mill. It wasnt going to happen, so even if we gave Zeljko a little less, it obviously was not going to happen. Some are saying that since we have now hit the cap limit, we may have our exceptions available to use. If true, that might be why we gave Zeljko all our remaining room - To make those usable. 



> I dont think that livingston can play the wing in the nba. He is one of the few true PGs.


At 6'7 1/2 with a 6'11 wingspan, he most certainly can play on the wing. Lamar Odom plays like a point guard(did when he was with the Clippers), and he can play on the wing, why can't Livingston? Livingston should not be a full time wing player. But, he can play minuts on the wing just to get into the game. Plus, its all in name anyway - If we run Jaric, Livingston, and Maggette, Livingston is still going to be the point. If its Jaric, Kittles, Livingston, Shaun is still the point. If its Kittles, Shaun, and Maggette, Livingston is still the point. The argument about saying playing time on the wing, is just another way of saying he's on the court with Kittles and/or Jaric. Instead of just coming in to replace Jaric or Kittles, he can come in along side of them and play. 



> Also, the clippers always have 14-15 players on the team. But now, their under contract players will be: Kaman, Rebraca, Brand, Wilcox, Magette, Simmons, Jaric, Kittles, Livingston, Chalmers. Thats only 10 players. Again: I hope im missing something, and the clippers do have more money than the 3 million that the La Times article a while back said. If not, theyre going to have trouble signing 3-4 more people to fill up the roster since they spent all the money on rebraca.


The Clippers usually have about 13 players on the team.

Livingston, Jaric, Chalmers, Kittles, Ross, Maggette, Simmons, Brand, Wilcox, Kaman, Rebraca, Moore, N'Diaye - Thats 13. Moore is signed, its just not guaranteed for this season until he makes the team. Im sure we'll keep him.

You can sign your rookies and minimum level players at any time, so thats how we'll fill out the roster.

Plus, like I mentioned earlier, there are some people saying we may have both exceptions to play with now, but Im not sure about that. That would help, as it gives us the chance to sign a guy like Barry still.



> Blazer freak, i think its over paying for someone who has played so little the last couple of years. There have been overpaid people this summer, but if you look at some of the others, vin baker making 3.5 million, dampier, possibly signing for the MLE, there are players 10 times as productive as this guy, but making about the same..


He hasnt played because of his heart condition. If it were that serious, he would not have been cleared to play, and he would not have been offered the money us and hte Celtics offered. Its safe to assume he's ready to play again.

Rebraca is not making 3.5mill, he's making at most 3.2 from what I heard. Not a big difference, but still. Also, there are not players 10 times as productive making the same. Thats ridiculous - There are actually very FEW players that can do what he can at this type of contract. 

Big men who actually have any sort of respectable game are always overpaid. Mehmet Okur put up slightly better numbers, but got almost 20 times the money. Chris Mihm puts up similar numbers, and he got a deal long term and for more money per. Peja Drobnjak has a similar per year total, but his deal is a long term deal. Thats worse than a one year deal. Calvin Booth puts up similar numbers makes about twice as much per, and 30mill more total. Even Eschemeyer is worse but is signed for more per, and 17mill more over the course of the deal. Michael Doleac has a similar impact yet, signed a long term deal.

And the list goes on.

His contract is not near as bad as you make it, and Rebraca is not near as bad as you make it. There are a TON more players that make as much money, if not more, and are signed on long term deals that are no better than Rebraca. Getting him on a one year deal is an excellent move.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Anyone find any article about this?

I have check L.A. Times, the Clippers homepage, ESPN, and yahoo and still havent found anything concerning the matter.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Oh my goodness, what are you smoking? Rebracas numbers are similar to drobniyack? lets see...

First year Drobs: Plays 62 games, starts 12, averages 7 points and 3.5 rebounds.
First year rebraca: Plays 74 games, starts 2, averages 7 points, 3.9 rebounds. 

So, for the first year, apart from the games started, it is even. 

Second year drobs: plays 82 games, starts 69, averages 9.4 points, 4 rebounds.
Second year, rebraca: Plays 30 games, starts 12, averages 6.6 points and 3 rebounds. 

Third year drobs: plays 61 games, starts 14, averages 6.3 points, 3.2 rebounds. 
Third year rebraca: Plays 24 games, starts 2, averages 3.7 points and 2.8 rebounds. 

So, on average, drobs plays near twice as many games a season as rebraca, scores twice as many points a season, averages more rebounds per game, gets twice as many rebounds per season as him, etc. etc. 

You might take rebraca over drobs any day of the week. But it would be only your personal taste, because it cant be based on stats, and track record. 

How can you tell me what my definition of a scrub is? You want to tell me how to wipe my butt too? I told you, my definition of a scrub is someone who scores 5 points or less, or who barely plays...has nothing to do with their abilities in my book. If hes not a scrub in your book, fine, just dont try to tell me what my own definition of something is. 

I didnt say getting rebraca and barry for 3 million "could" have happened. not if boston wanted to over pay him even more. However, based on his stats and record, he shouldnt have cost that much. And if he did, i would have been more comfortable signing N'Diyaye, and even another center, along with barry. Now, if he was given such a contract because exceptions are not usable until we hit the cap, then that would explain the situation a lot better for me, and it would bring a positive to the deal. 

Who cares about the body of livingston. If we went by his body, then he wouldnt be able to play PG at all. Its been said many a time on analysis that this guy is strictly a PG, and because of his lack of shooting, and lack of strength (for defense), that he could never platoon as a SG. Again, id love that to be wrong, but im just going by what the experts have said. If hes the point, hes not the wing, just because hes playing with jaric and/or kittles. Those two players can play all three positions. 

The past couple of years they have had 15 players under contract. Moore and N'diyaye do not have guaranteed contracts, nor does ross as of now i believe. 



> Thats ridiculous - There are actually very FEW players that can do what he can at this type of contract.


There are few players who can average 40 games a year and put up 4-5 points a game? Id say there are plenty of players who can do that. Again, hopefully he has a breakout year with the clippers, but we cant base it on his track record over the past 3 years. 

okurs contract starts at less than 10 million i believe...closer to 5, how can that be so much more money per year thn rebraca? Also, okur has a ring, averages over 70 games a year, averages nearly 10 points a game with 6 boards. 

Mihm also has averaged about 70 games a year for 4 years, and averages about 7 points and over 5 rebounds a game. 

Eschemeyer would not get a contract now if his life depended on it. I believe he got a contract after putting up decent numbers with NJ, but im not sure.

Booth may put up similar point numbers as rebraca, but he can also play both front court positions, and has averaged one of the best blocks per 48 minutes in the league. Doleac in 6 years has averaged about 70 games a year, with more points and rebounds. Comparing people who even if they are terrible to rebraca doesnt gel either. All of the players who got huge contracts were coming off of decent years, or a number of consistent years. Rebraca has neither going for him. 

The only thing that would make this deal worthwhile is if the clippers had no chance to get anyone else like sura, another center for that amount, AND if it is true what youre saying about needing to use the cap so that they can use exceptions. Other than that, if you look at numbers and consistency, rebraca has neither. Hopefully he will be able to have a breakout year with the clippers this year, but its only a hope. We cant base it off of what he has done so far.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

weasel: exactly. Ive even checked eurobasket, and realgm, and every other place. Theres a part of me that hopes its fake, especially with him saying that hes going to become AGAIN a prime center in the league. Perhaps it was a fake story.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> weasel: exactly. Ive even checked eurobasket, and realgm, and every other place. Theres a part of me that hopes its fake, especially with him saying that hes going to become AGAIN a prime center in the league. Perhaps it was a fake story.


Maybe, but why would anyone create a fake story?
I don't know maybe its just taking longer than expected.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

i wish the original poster would post the link of where he quoted it from....


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I think arenas809 got it from here: http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm 

Its under Sunday.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> Oh my goodness, what are you smoking? Rebracas numbers are similar to drobniyack?


Look at the career numbers. Thats what I said - Their careers numbers are similar. Since both players have been backups year in, year out(only starting due to injury to the starter, because neither player is starting caliber).

I have talked about Rebraca's heart condition. But, its clear that he is healthy or he would not have had the Clippers offering this money, nor the Celtics the money they were offering him.

His heart condition is the issue with his health. If he's healthy and over that, then he is ready to go. I dont discount him missing time for that, when he is healthy enough to get cleared by every single doctor he has stepped in front of. 

The health issue is the ONLY one you can argue. The stats and the play on the court you can't. And since doctors have cleared him, you're only argument doesn't hold a lot of water.

Stats for the players:
Zeljko Rebraca 6.3ppg, 3.4rpg, .79bpg, in 15.2mpg, .508FG%, .775FT%

Predrag Drobnjak 7.7ppg, 3.6rpg, .45bpg, 19.8mpg, .420FG%, .799FT%

The numbers are pretty damn close. Its clear that Drobo is the better scorer(never contended anything different), but Rebraca shoots considerably better, rebounds the same despite playing less, blocks more shots despite playing less.

When you average both players' #'s to the same amount of PT, these are what the #'s look like.

Rebraca: 8.2ppg, 4.5rpg, 1.03bpg, .508FG, .775FT
Drobnjak: 7.7ppg, 3.6rpg, .45bpg, .420FG, .799FT

Who's better?

Zeljko also had better stats across the board(points, boards, blocks, FG%) than Drobnjak during their rookie years despite playing LESS than Drobnjak did per game. 

You can stick to your year by year argument. It favors you because of Rebraca's heart ailment. When he's healthy, Rebraca is PROVEN to be a better player. The heart issue is a valid concern - However, I'll take the word of the doctors that worked him out and the interest NBA teams showed in him to determine if he's healthy or not. Clearly, they believe he is.



> You might take rebraca over drobs any day of the week. But it would be only your personal taste, because it cant be based on stats, and track record.


Correct - Personal preference because I prefer a C that plays like a C. I prefer a big man that plays like a big man. I dont prefer a big man that wants to be an SF. There is no denying that that is the style of these two players.



> How can you tell me what my definition of a scrub is? You want to tell me how to wipe my butt too? I told you, my definition of a scrub is someone who scores 5 points or less, or who barely plays...has nothing to do with their abilities in my book. If hes not a scrub in your book, fine, just dont try to tell me what my own definition of something is.


How can you possibly say that you determine a player's worth by his satts, and not his ability? I cant believe you boldly state that. 

Their ability is ALL that matters. 

But go ahead, stick to your claims about stats and not using their basketball abilities. By that token, Peja Stojakovic is better than Kobe Bryant. I mean the #'s say so, but their ability speaks differently.

Oh, and by the way, Barry averaged 6 points per game, and 20 minutes per game. Neither meets your criteria of a scrub 



> Who cares about the body of livingston. If we went by his body, then he wouldnt be able to play PG at all. Its been said many a time on analysis that this guy is strictly a PG, and because of his lack of shooting, and lack of strength (for defense), that he could never platoon as a SG.


And the same "scouts" say that Tayshaun Prince can't play SF. They said Tayshaun doesn't have standout athleticism, and isn't very strong. Thats why he fell to #24 in the draft. 

Yet, he's proven that his lack of strength and lack of ideal athleticism have not hindered him in the league. He does have agility, and his wingspan makes him a great defender. 

I have never seen a scouting report that says he could never platoon at SG. I've seen people say that he is a PG through and through, but that doesnt mean he cant play spot minutes at another psoition. Scouts say that Chris wilcox cant play C because he isn't big or strong enough. But we know that he can play spot minutes there. Thats all I advocate for Livingston if he ever plays on the wing. But, like I said, Im not even necessarily talking about him playing on the wing. Im saying it in name only, meaning that instead of coming in for Marko Jaric who is the starter at PG, he would come in for say, Corey Maggette. He's coming in for the SF, but he would be our PG in essence. It'd be Jaric that switches positions, still leaving Livingston at point. 



> The past couple of years they have had 15 players under contract. Moore and N'diyaye do not have guaranteed contracts, nor does ross as of now i believe.


The Clippers have had 15 players under contract, but not on the team together. The Clippers actually had 17 players under contract last year. But, they regularly only have 13 on the "team" at one time. At various times last year, they had Doug Overton, Glen Rice, Randy Livingston, Matt Barnes and Olden Polynice ... But they were not on the team for the whole yaer, or at the same time. They cut and pickup players during the season as injuries dictate. If I remember correctly the team had 13, 14 at most at the start of the year. They may have had 15 for a short time when a couple guys were on the injured list, but for most of the year, and under normal circumstances, they never had 15 players under contract.



> There are few players who can average 40 games a year and put up 4-5 points a game? Id say there are plenty of players who can do that.


There are very few big men in the NBA that can put up 6points, 4boards, a block, with an excellent FG percentage and good defense - At 3mill per. Guys that can do that or more come MUCH higher. I already proved this true, as in cases like Calvin Booth, or Even Eschemeyer, Michael Doleac, etc. 



> okurs contract starts at less than 10 million i believe...closer to 5, how can that be so much more money per year thn rebraca? Also, okur has a ring, averages over 70 games a year, averages nearly 10 points a game with 6 boards.


I dont believe his contract starts closer to 5. I thought I read where they frontloaded his deal, though I may be wrong. Anyway, his deal is 5 years, 50mill. When I say he makes more, I talk about the average per year and the total money over the length. 50mill is almost 20x 3mill(just through that projection off the top of my head, I realize 20x3 is not 50 ), which is where that number comes from. And on average, he makes 7mill more than Rebraca per season.

As for the ring - Big deal. Slava Medvendenko has one - Is he better than KG? Okur did very little for that team in the playoffs. He does not deserve to be mentioned like he played a big role for them. They called on the over the hill Campbell over Okur, and when he was on the court, Okur's play was pathetic. I remember watching him and realizing how bad he was, and when I went on other boards, I found people seeing the same thing. Just because you have a ring doesnt mean you were a big contributor. 



> Mihm also has averaged about 70 games a year for 4 years, and averages about 7 points and over 5 rebounds a game.


Mihm is quite possibly the biggest woman in the NBA among 7's. Just about everyone will agree. And, 7points 5 boards is basically the same as Rebraca's 6 and 4 per. Rebraca's toughness and D more than make up for the point and board less per.



> Eschemeyer would not get a contract now if his life depended on it. I believe he got a contract after putting up decent numbers with NJ, but im not sure.


Eschemeyer's career HIGH #'s are these:

3.4ppg, 4.9rpg, .78bpg, ,7apg ... His numbers are actually far worse than Rebraca's.



> Hopefully he will be able to have a breakout year with the clippers this year, but its only a hope. We cant base it off of what he has done so far.


It does go a little further than just hope. When healthy, Rebraca has played very well, faring very well against guys named above. And, I dont believe the Clippers would have signed him if they did not believe he had a clean bill of health. Everything for every team is hope - We have hope that Livingston pans out. The Lakers hope Kobe and Odom can carry them. We also hope that Rebraca plays well. Obviously there is a level of confidence in each teams hope, but I believe there is a certain level of confidence to have in Rebraca. He's played very well off the bench when healthy, and he is healthy now.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Per game averages are not the end of it all. I could average 30 points a game, but if i only average 10 games a season, wouldnt you rather have someone who averages 5 points a game the entire season? 

Saying that zelco when healthy has done alright is also not exactly a valid point by itself. Thats like saying, "well i put in a good days work when i show up." but then if i call in sick half of the year, of how much value am i to the team? Thats basically what zelco has done in his careeer, average about half a year each year. This is documented history. Anything else, whether it comes from doctors, etc. is just HOPE. PROGNOSIS for the future. Im basing my thesis on what has happened. Is there a chance he goes through the entire season healthy? Yes. But id be the first time he plays 80+ games in one year. Thats just a fact of life. 

If he puts up consistent numbers for 2 years like drob has, then id take him over drob. Right now, i only have a doctors note that says he can play. Remember, his numbers still arent better than drob PER GAME, but the disparity is even more when you count how many points he scores total for his team each year. 

Stats is all that matters, not ability. Look at stanley roberts. That guy had all the ability in the world, But he couldnt stick in the league because he couldnt put up the stats. Granted, there were reasons he couldnt put up the stats: overweight, etc., but bottom line is, if you dont put up the stats (doesnt have to be earth shattering stats, but something that will keep you in the leauge), youll be shown the door no matter your ability. 

Barry would not average 5 points with the clippers. Thats why i was saying he would be a scrub on the clippers. 

I dont know of any links that talk about livingstons inability to play SG, it was mostly on reports on tv about him around the time of the draft...someone even on draft day i believe specifically asked if we would see him platoon at the SG while he develops in his first year, and they said no chance. 

If livingston comes in for any position player, even if its the SG, or SF, yet goes in as the PG, i dont know why you consider that the wing, if hes handling the ball and bringing it up the court. To me, thats the point.

The clippers pretty much all year long last year had the full 14-15 players under contract. For example, to start the year, they had:
Kaman
Drob
Zhi Zhi
Moore
Polynice
Brand
Wilcox
Ely
Magette
Simmons
House
Jaric
Dooling
Rice
Richardson

I believe there was one other, but i cant think of it. When they got rid of wang, they addeed barnes. When they got rid of polynice, they added overton. Of course, they always only had 12 active players, but they had 2-3 on injured list at all times as well, including moore who was on the list the entire season. 

Like i said, there are plenty of people who could do those numbers in only 40 games a year. Remember, you have to average it all out. If a person scores only 80% of those numbers, yet plays the entire year, whos more valuable to the team?

As far as having a ring, i personally dont think it means dittley squat. But GMs for some reason do. Thats why so many of those bulls retreads back in the days got overpaid, and people like fisher, etc. get overpaid. As long as youre not the 10-12th man, having a ring miraculously means you get more money....i dont agree with it, but it happens more times than not. 

Again, with Mihm. He puts up better numbers than rebraca, even going by your per game averages. But not only that, he averages almost twice as many games per year as he does. ill take mihm any day of the week over rebraca, until rebraca starts showing some consistency.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

The Clippers did have 15 at the start of the year, but that was only due to injury.

We had major injury issues at the start of the year.

Glen Rice started the year on Ir. Elton Brand, Chris Kaman, Keyon Dooling, and Marko Jaric had injury concerns to start the year. Kaman missed a couple pre-season games and was questionable to start the year(which is why they kept ZhiZhi around, and he was cut within the first month of the season). Elton Brand ended up missing a couple games early on, and wasp laced on IR within the first month of the season(and thats when Doug Overton was signed). Keyon Dooling was coming off his ankle injury, and was expected to start the year on Ir, but was able to make the roster. Marko Jaric had foot problems entering the year(from the summer), and played through it all year until he finally went on IR later in the year. Matt Barnes wasnt signed until around the all star break.

You are right that they had 14/15 guys, but that was only because they had injuries at the time. When the guys are healthy, they havent kept those guys around. The guys signed once the season started, Overton, Livingston, and Barnes all signed 10 day contracts to start, showing they were short term injury solutions. 

If the guys are healthy, I only expect the Clippers to have 13 players around. But, we can keep more around because by signing scrubs, we are only signing minimum level contracts, and those can be added at any time. So we can still add those even giving the money to Rebraca.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Another day and no mention anywhere. Not even a hint from any source. This is wierd, you would think this would have surfaced somewhere allready.


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## TheClipSHow11 (Jul 22, 2004)

Drob was a joke......... he was only good in garbage minutes - he could score once in a while.... but who was there for the rebound when he missed?? (usually backup centers do that)  we need a banger to get boards, and help brand and kaman get tougher!!!! not a 6'11" chump who thinks it's an and-1 tour. That was a great trade to rid of him - he is a glory whore, who plays the game like Kobe. And that was the next best move this off-season, Kobe going to the Lakers...... Thank goodness. Being a long standing Clippers fan - that was my worst nightmare having Kobe in blue and red, I wasn't sure what to do if that had happened.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

No one is saying that its not a good thing drob is gone. Im just saying that drob is a better player than rebraca.

However, its now seeming more and more that this was a misconstrued story. Theres no way clippers.com and the la times are 4 days behind the second biggest clippers move this off season. Thank goodness. Hopefully its just one of those "he will have a guaranteed contract if he makes the team after training camp" contracts.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Rebraca is a great signing(for whats out there). We should hope we get him. Either we use our money for him, or we dont spend it at all. Id rather spend the money on a player than keep the money. There isn't a player out there that can do what Rebraca can on the court that will come for the money he is getting. Even if he gets hurt and doesnt step o nthe court, we dont lose anything by spending that money(because its a safe bet that we will not spend much of it on anyone else). If we dont get him, the only guys we'd bring in is a scrub like Kareem Reid or someone along those lines. Rebraca has the ability to be a very valuable player for this team. Its a little risk, but the reward is good for the risk. 

I read that he is still out of the country, and the contract won't be signed until he comes back over. That could be why nothing has been reported yet. I dont know when he is expected to come over, but we'll see.


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