# Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll / Redick=Hornacek



## rebelsun

*JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

NBADraft.net shot JJ up to #5 in their '06 mock. When are people going to understand that he is a 6'4 shooter?

I don't see how you could justify JJ being a better pro prospect than, say, Ronnie Brewer.


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## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



RebelSun said:


> NBADraft.net shot JJ up to #5 in their '06 mock. When are people going to understand that he is a 6'4 shooter?
> 
> I don't see how you could justify JJ being a better pro prospect than Ronnie Brewer.


i dont even think he's 6'4, the problem i have is he doesnt seem to be able to find open teamates, part of that is he's paid(sort of speak) to shoot and part is the system there.i think in weak draft anything is possible but i would totally agree he isnt a top 5 player, if he goes somewhere at the end of the lottery or just after that it will probably work out better for him as far as expectations goes.


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## Blink4

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

dude can shoot the ****ing lights out, but no one gives him ANY respect on this board. I dont understand it. Best player on the best team, best scorer and pure shooter in college hoops. not saying he is top 5, but people gotta give him some props.


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## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> dude can shoot the ****ing lights out, but no one gives him ANY respect on this board. I dont understand it. Best player on the best team, best scorer and pure shooter in college hoops. not saying he is top 5, but people gotta give him some props.


along with adam morrison the best player in college ball, this is the draft board though, if shooting on a great team were the only criteria then mike dunleavy would be all pro.


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## Tom

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

He will be shooting from the stands in the NBA...I don't think he will be big enough of strong enough to get his shot or even fight consistently to get open. ADAM is a straight baller and will do well in the NBA.


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## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> dude can shoot the ****ing lights out, but no one gives him ANY respect on this board. I dont understand it. Best player on the best team, best scorer and pure shooter in college hoops. not saying he is top 5, but people gotta give him some props.


i think just about everyone recognizes that he is a great college player, but thinks that it won't translate to the nba level. he is not a pg. not even in college. he will not be able to be an nba pg and handle the ball. he isn't athletic enough to be a sg and won't be able to defend any position well. that doesn't mean he'll be worthless as a pro, but are you going to draft a guy that can only shoot(even if he is great at it) with a top 5 or 10 pick? i don't think i would.


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## Blink4

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rainman said:


> along with adam morrison the best player in college ball, this is the draft board though, if shooting on a great team were the only criteria then mike dunleavy would be all pro.


that great. but JJ Redick gets f-ed over on this board all the time, for no reason. The fact is hes a great shooter, but can score other ways too. He gets to line all the time, and get even get to the rack sometimes. People just like to get on him because they HEAR that hes only a shooter. Maybe some people should watch a game or two.


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## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> that great. but JJ Redick gets f-ed over on this board all the time, for no reason. The fact is hes a great shooter, but can score other ways too. He gets to line all the time, and get even get to the rack sometimes. People just like to get on him because they HEAR that hes only a shooter. Maybe some people should watch a game or two.


doing things in college is completely different than doing them in the nba. and when he gets to the pros, he'll be a rookie and he won't be playing for duke anymore. those free throws might be a little harder to find.


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## Blink4

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rocketeer said:


> doing things in college is completely different than doing them in the nba. and when he gets to the pros, he'll be a rookie and he won't be playing for duke anymore. those free throws might be a little harder to find.


 . . . . . . and the point of that statement was?


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## Tom

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

i want him to do well, but he isn't very big or physical in college...Maybe, he will be another Hornacek and fool us all.


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## Blink4

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rocketeer said:


> i think just about everyone recognizes that he is a great college player, but thinks that it won't translate to the nba level. he is not a pg. not even in college. he will not be able to be an nba pg and handle the ball. he isn't athletic enough to be a sg and won't be able to defend any position well. that doesn't mean he'll be worthless as a pro, but are you going to draft a guy that can only shoot(even if he is great at it) with a top 5 or 10 pick? i don't think i would.


If I have a player like Kobe, Tmac, Kg etc., that can continually draw double-teams, your damn right im gonna take JJ top 5 or 10. Having someone who can hit the 3 would open up the main scorers game.


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## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> . . . . . . and the point of that statement was?


he's not going to be able to get to the line as much in the pros. he not going to be able to drive either. that will reduce him to being just a shooter that is not good at defense.

would you take a 6'4 at most shooter that is an average at best defender with a top pick?


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## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> If I have a player like Kobe, Tmac, Kg etc., that can continually draw double-teams, your damn right im gonna take JJ top 5 or 10. Having someone who can hit the 3 would open up the main scorers game.


right but generally teams with a top 5 or 10 pick don't have a superstar on them.

if the heat, rockets, lakers, or a team with a superstar on it took redick, his shooting would instantly make him a good role player. i wish the rockets had him right now because he could knock down open 3s. redick would be a great fit on most playoff teams, but when he is being talk about in the top 10, he isn't going to a playoff team and he probably won't be going to a team that has a guy that is always doubled. he can be a great role player in the nba, but i can't see him being any better than that.


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## Tom

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

He'd probably be much happier if his stock fell so he could go to a better team that would protect him and let him do what he does better than almost anyone.


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## ATLien

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Is he a better shooter than Salim, the best shooter from last year's draft?

And Salim is better at doing other things, too..


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## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> that great. but JJ Redick gets f-ed over on this board all the time, for no reason. The fact is hes a great shooter, but can score other ways too. He gets to line all the time, and get even get to the rack sometimes. People just like to get on him because they HEAR that hes only a shooter. Maybe some people should watch a game or two.


i've seen all their games so i dont know how many more i could see. to me redick needs to improve his court vision, he's too one on one. i dont think this is redick bashing going on here, wer'e not tarheel fans, he seems like a model student and a great kid. in a perfect world he becomes a jeff hornacek or maybe a smaller danny ainge but that doesnt warrant a top 5 pick.


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## rebelsun

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> that great. but JJ Redick gets f-ed over on this board all the time, for no reason. The fact is hes a great shooter, but can score other ways too. He gets to line all the time, and get even get to the rack sometimes. People just like to get on him because they HEAR that hes only a shooter. Maybe some people should watch a game or two.


I just want to point out that I think JJ is a very good basketball player and a phenomenal shooter but not an impressive NBA prospect.

I just don't see him being anything more than a 6th man.


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## MarioChalmers

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Good question, JJ or Salim?


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## Jonathan Watters

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



RebelSun said:


> I just want to point out that I think JJ is a very good basketball player and a phenomenal shooter but not an impressive NBA prospect.
> 
> I just don't see him being anything more than a 6th man.


I agree with your original statement.

But 6th men are drafted in the lottery all the time...


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## Mr. Hobbes

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

NBAdraft.net rates players on how good they are in their own league, not how well they would do in the NBA.


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## Diable

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I just don't understand what the big deal is.NBADraft.Net didn't say anything about your mother did they?They are entitled to their opinion and it's not worth one cent more than yours is.I'd be very surprised if Reddick was drafted higher than 10 to 15,but no matter what he's going to be a good NBA player and that can not be said with any certainty of many players who will be available this year.


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## JNice

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

..

I would love to take JJ late in the first round and have him as my shooter off the bench. While I do think we overrate teams attempts at finding superstars in the first half of the draft, I do think most teams want to at least get a starter in the first half of the draft ... especially the lottery. I don't see JJ being a lottery pick. Right now it looks like he might be, but when some 6'11" kid with a 7'6" wingspan who started playing basketball 2 weeks ago comes out of the woodwork GMs will take a look over a 6'4" (probably less) non-superior athlete SG. That is pretty much the way it always goes. And if Redick comes in and measures in at around 6'2" then his stock will really take a nice dive. I see Redick as real rich mans Jon Barry.


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## rebelsun

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Jonathan Watters said:


> But 6th men are drafted in the lottery all the time...


True, but not too often in the top 5.

I wouldn't have much to say about JJ going somewhere in the late lotto, but I do when he's projected as a top 5.


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## rebelsun

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> They are entitled to their opinion and it's not worth one cent more than yours is


I don't disagree, but in my opinion, they're waaay off here.

One reason I was inclined to make this thread is because I value their mocks and was a little shocked to see Mr. JJ at 5.


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## HKF

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



JNice said:


> ..
> 
> I see Redick as real rich mans Jon Barry.


Jon Barry is such a better ball handler than Redick and so much quicker.


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## Jesus of CopyMat

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Well, he might be a top five pick, but he shouldn't be. No way would I take him sooner than the 12-15 range, and that might even be too early. He'll play in the NBA for a long time, but he's nothing special when you stack him up against the rest of the league.


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## crazyfan

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



gian said:


> Good question, JJ or Salim?



salim's a better ball handler but both are pure shooters. equally gd


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## Blazer Freak

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



RebelSun said:


> I just want to point out that I think JJ is a very good basketball player and a phenomenal shooter but not an impressive NBA prospect.
> 
> I just don't see him being anything more than a 6th man.


I agree. I see him as a smaller Richie Frahm. That's essentially what is he is, a shooter that can't really do anything else. Richie Frahm is more atheletic then Redick is as well. I definitely don't think that Redick is a Top 10 talent, but on a team that would know how to use his strong point and hide his weak points, then I think he could definitely be a decent-good NBA player. Never a superstar, just a role player.


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## Nimreitz

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Jesus of CopyMat said:


> Well, he might be a top five pick, but he shouldn't be. No way would I take him sooner than the 12-15 range, and that might even be too early. He'll play in the NBA for a long time, but he's nothing special when you stack him up against the rest of the league.


Completely agree, although he IS a special shooter compared to the rest of the league.

And by the way, I took personal offense last year when Salim was being called the best shooter in college basketball, because that's just ridiculous. It was clearly Redick. And I don't know what Salim does better that means anything, sure he handles the ball better, but still poorly enough that he's a 5'11 shooting guard.


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## HKF

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> Completely agree, although he IS a special shooter compared to the rest of the league.
> 
> And by the way, I took personal offense last year when Salim was being called the best shooter in college basketball, because that's just ridiculous. It was clearly Redick. And I don't know what Salim does better that means anything, sure he handles the ball better, but still poorly enough that he's a 5'11 shooting guard.


You think Redick is a better shooter than Salim Stoudamire? The man who shot 50% from the 3 last year with over 200 attempts? C'mon now.


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## Dissonance

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Salim was INSANE last yr. He could get his shot off almost any move and make it. It was ridiculous the things he did just stopping on a dime. At one point his 3pt % was 57%.. Dropped to like 51 or 52 by end of last yr even with a lot of attempts.


I miss him on my team this yr


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## cpawfan

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> You think Redick is a better shooter than Salim Stoudamire? The man who shot 50% from the 3 last year with over 200 attempts? C'mon now.


Well it easy to get good shots when you have a dominating big man like Frye drawing all the defensive attention :bsmile:


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## pup2plywif

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



cpawfan said:


> Well it easy to get good shots when you have a dominating big man like Frye drawing all the defensive attention :bsmile:


No doubt Channing was a dominant player but JJ has Shelden Williams and Josh McRoberts running screen and rolls for him. Salim would have gotten off more shots and been better if he had two potential lottery picks setting screens for him like Duke has.


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## cpawfan

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



pup2plywif said:


> No doubt Channing was a dominant player but JJ has Shelden Williams and Josh McRoberts running screen and rolls for him. Salim would have gotten off more shots and been better if he had two potential lottery picks setting screens for him like Duke has.


Guess the sarcasm of my post flew right past you.


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## HKF

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



cpawfan said:


> Guess the sarcasm of my post flew right past you.


Not me. :rofl: How bout that Jeff McInnis?


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## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

JJ Redick = Voshon Lenard

I don't think he is worth a top 5 pick, but I do believe in the right situation (dominant bigman or wing player) Redick couild have a decent career.


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## Jonathan Watters

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> You think Redick is a better shooter than Salim Stoudamire? The man who shot 50% from the 3 last year with over 200 attempts? C'mon now.


They are different types of shooters. 

Stoudamire has a quicker release, and gets a large percentage of his 3-pointers outside of the offense. He is liable to nail one at any time, from anywhere, no matter what play is being run. Redick's shots are more deliberately crafted, after he has come off a screen or finds himself an opening. He still has an incredible release, but there is still some sense that if you get a hand in his face, you can lower the chances of the shot going in. 

I don't know who ends up as a better shooter in the NBA. Stoudamire's incredible ability to hit in any situation helps him, but the fact that Redick gets his within an offense might help him as a roleplayer. 

I believe Redick is the better all-around player...


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## pup2plywif

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> JJ Redick = Voshon Lenard
> 
> I don't think he is worth a top 5 pick, but I do believe in the right situation (dominant bigman or wing player) Redick couild have a decent career.


 I dunno about Voshon lenard. Lenards more athletic than redick. There was another comparison I was thinking about that he might be similar to Casey Jacobsen.


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## zagsfan20

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



> There was another comparison I was thinking about that he might be similar to Casey Jacobsen.


Their statistics are certainly comparable through their Junior years...


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## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



pup2plywif said:


> I dunno about Voshon lenard. Lenards more athletic than redick. There was another comparison I was thinking about that he might be similar to Casey Jacobsen.


I don't know, I think JJ Redick is more athletic than people are giving him credit for. I am not saying he is to rise up and dunk on someone or be an athletic defensive stopper, but he has enough athletic ability to compete on the NBA level. He is also an extremelly hard worker, so I'd expect his game to take similar leaps like it did between his sophmore and junior seasons. 

Now, yes Jacobsen is a shooter similar to Redick, but he also is 6'6" making his game a little different. Redick is 6'4" as is Lenard, so I think that comparison is more fair to Redick. I am not saying Redick should be a lottery pick and if he is he will be percieved as a bust, but there is nothing wrong with taking him in the late 1st. Actually Redick would strive being taking by a team with a late 1st round pick because as a team they will already be established with established "star" players, making Redick's transition easier. To be succesful Redick will need to be on a team with an extablished player such as Duncan, LeBron James, KG, Shaq, etc. so that he can standout on the wing and wait to get the ball swung to him for an open shot.


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## JayRedd

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Anyone remember Trajan Langdon? Well, okay, Reddick is CLEARLY better than Langdon ever was, but Trajan was 2nd team All America, three-time All-ACC, and an 11th overall selection by Cleveland in 1999. He had three mediocre seasons, but actually did manage 17 min. per game one year and shot a career .396% for NBA threes.

JJ will be bettter than this in the league, but he has all the same strengths (shooting, intelligence, intangibles) and weaknesses (foot speed, quickness, ballhandling, man to man defense, inability to get own shot, "tweener") as the man formerly known as the Alaskan Assassin, and now better known as another poor NBA player from Duke.

But I'm not saying there's no place for JJ in the League. He'll be a great Fred Hoiberg/Steve Kerr talent for a good team to bring off the bench, but he has zero chance of ever starting (or really being close to a 6th Man) in this League. Will be a great specialist and very valuable to a Top 4 seed playoff team, but of very little to any lottery team. My guess is he goes at around pick 25 to a team like the Cavs, Mavs or Miami.


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## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I'll be pretty sorry for whatever team drafts him that high. First thing that comes to mind is his footspeed, all that off arm writhing he does when he drives isnt going to cut it in the big leagues. He will be playing much faster, much athletic guys on a regular basis. I am not even sure he is going to be better than Korver. He is a fantastic college player but might as well be the guard version of Laettner


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## pup2plywif

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*




Hbwoy said:


> I'll be pretty sorry for whatever team drafts him that high. First thing that comes to mind is his footspeed, all that off arm writhing he does when he drives isnt going to cut it in the big leagues. He will be playing much faster, much athletic guys on a regular basis. I am not even sure he is going to be better than Korver. He is a fantastic college player but might as well be the guard version of Laettner


I understand your Laettner comparison in a guard form. But Laettner went to one allstar game and averaged 18ppg a few seasons. I doubt Redick will ever get an allstar appearance or average anywhere close to 18ppg. Laettner I think was just more overhyped than anything else. But at least he had a few productive seasons.


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## bigbabyjesus

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> I'll be pretty sorry for whatever team drafts him that high.


Yikes. Me too.


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## tha supes

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> Best player on the best team, best scorer


Duke is not the best team, even they might be ranked #1. That is arguable on many levels.

J.J is not the best scorer in college hoops either, but maybe for Duke he is.


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## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Redick stinks. He's a one-dimensional player who'll never play a minute in the NBA.


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## JuniorNoboa

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



TM said:


> Redick stinks. He's a one-dimensional player who'll never play a minute in the NBA.


There is a difference between some of the poor labels placed on Reddick, and questioning his worthiness as a top 5 pick.

IMO, Reddick is not top 5 worthy. Does not mean he is not NBA worthy, or that he cannot be a good player.


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## freddie flintoff

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



TM said:


> Redick stinks. He's a one-dimensional player who'll never play a minute in the NBA.



sorry tm butthats a haters point of view speaking there

redick is one dimensional and will have trouble creating his own shots but if kyle korver can start for the sixers then redick will play for an nba team and after seeing the disgraceful treatment of jameer nelson then i think redick is by no means a certain lottery pick


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## Diable

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

TM needs to bring back the DUke avatar since sarcasm is so difficult to perceive around here.I don't know why J.J. incites people like he does.I personally don't care that much where he's drafted.All the Tarheel fans I know just want him to graduate and go somewhere else.


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## butr

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Tom said:


> i want him to do well, but he isn't very big or physical in college...Maybe, he will be another Hornacek and fool us all.


I've never seen him shy away from contact. He often fights through several arms to hit a lay-up. But everyone thinks he is purely spotting up for points.


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## butr

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



tha supes said:


> Duke is not the best team, even they might be ranked #1. That is arguable on many levels.
> 
> J.J is not the best scorer in college hoops either, but maybe for Duke he is.


The best team will be determined ultimately when Duke wins the final game of the NCAA tournament.


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## Starbury03

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I would easily take Salim over him. Because Salim is a pretty good ballhandler and is very underated in that area. I think JJ can get his shot off in the league but he isn't a top 10 pick. But Langdon went 10th I believe and he had a very slow release which didnt allow him to suceed in the NBA. Reddick doesnt have that problem and is tougher. He could maybe start next to a big Point if he improved his defense, but not likely. But he should have some success in the NBA.


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## Wilmatic2

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Top five pick? I'm sorry but Redick is not that good. He's one-dimensional.


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## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



> He's one-dimensional


how's that?


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## Hitman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

People get too caught in with comparisons. Reddick will be like Kerr. Reddick will be like Hoiberg. Reddick will be like Craig Hodges. Reddick will be like Chris Mullin. Reddick will be like Hornacek.

The fact is, the guy is a unique talent. He is averaging 25 points a game, shotting 50% from the field on the best team in the county and he is UNDOUBTEBLY the game theopposing coaches focuse thier defensive gameplan on, but it doens't matter.

Reddick is oging to be a good NBA player. Probably a 18-19 ppg guy at some point in his career.


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## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hitman said:


> People get too caught in with comparisons. Reddick will be like Kerr. Reddick will be like Hoiberg. Reddick will be like Craig Hodges. Reddick will be like Chris Mullin. Reddick will be like Hornacek.
> 
> The fact is, the guy is a unique talent. He is averaging 25 points a game, shotting 50% from the field on the best team in the county and he is UNDOUBTEBLY the game theopposing coaches focuse thier defensive gameplan on, but it doens't matter.
> 
> Reddick is oging to be a good NBA player. Probably a 18-19 ppg guy at some point in his career.


Shelden williams is the game changer on that team. Once Shelden gets into foul trouble Duke is in serious trouble. They better hope he doesnt get injured or something like that before tournament starts. Reddick is a great college player but that doesnt necessarily mean he will be a great NBA player. I doubt he is a better shooter than Korver.


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## 36 Karat

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

"JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick"

..this is news how?

EDIT: Hb..don't ever say that again. Brian Scalabrine > Kyle Korver. He's _that_ bad.


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## rebelsun

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



36 Karat said:


> "JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick"
> 
> ..this is news how?
> 
> EDIT: Hb..don't ever say that again. Brian Scalabrine > Kyle Korver. He's _that_ bad.


NBADraft.net had Reddick at #5 when I started the thread.


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## belgian

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

He won't be top 5 pick, TOP 5 will be like: Gay, Morrison, Aldridge, Bargnani, Rondo, possible superstars which Redick isn't


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## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



belgian said:


> He won't be top 5 pick, TOP 5 will be like: Gay, Morrison, Aldridge, Bargnani, Rondo, possible superstars which Redick isn't


insightful post  

as for the rest of you - why should i pay attention to what you have to say? Over 50% of you don't even know how to spell his name. Why should I expect you to have a knowledge of his game?


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## crazyfan

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

i'm not sure about rondo but the gay, morrison. aldridge and bargnani are spot on


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## butr

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Wilmatic2 said:


> Top five pick? I'm sorry but Redick is not that good. He's one-dimensional.


He's seen one game.


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## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Shelden williams is the game changer on that team. Once Shelden gets into foul trouble Duke is in serious trouble. They better hope he doesnt get injured or something like that before tournament starts. Reddick is a great college player but that doesnt necessarily mean he will be a great NBA player. I doubt he is a better shooter than Korver.



To say that JJ Redick is not the "game changer" on Duke's team is to live in ignorance.

:wink:


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## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> To say that JJ Redick is not the "game changer" on Duke's team is to live in ignorance.
> 
> :wink:


Lol oh really. I guess we will just have to wait and see. Pay good attention to Duke's interior defense and matter of fact defense as a whole once the landlord isnt on the court


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## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Lol oh really. I guess we will just have to wait and see. Pay good attention to Duke's interior defense and matter of fact defense as a whole once the landlord isnt on the court



Well how did Duke play when Shelden wasn't on the court against Wake? Or did you miss that one?

I agree, Duke's defense is entirely centered around Shelden. But without JJ on the court, Duke's offense would be completely stagnate.


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## pup2plywif

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Well how did Duke play when Shelden wasn't on the court against Wake? Or did you miss that one?
> 
> I agree, Duke's defense is entirely centered around Shelden. But without JJ on the court, Duke's offense would be completely stagnate.


Besides scoring what does JJ do? Theres more to basketball than scoring points. Theres rebounding and playing defense. Defense is half the game. Redick in the NBA will not be able to keep up with many of the guards on defense. Except for those who are not as athletic as Redick (which is just a few players). He only averages less than 2 rebounds a game in 35 minutes. Without defense or rebounding I dont see Redick being anymore than a bench player. I just dont think his game will translate to the NBA game. I mean he plays great on offense but how good is his offense against NBA level defense. If the offense doesnt run through Redick how will he be able to get shots off.


----------



## BroadStBullies

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

ofcourse he's not a top 5.. he shouldn't even be a top 20 pick


----------



## pup2plywif

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

If Salim wasnt even picked in the first round and hes better than Redick. Then why is Redick considered a first round pick?


----------



## texan

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I wouldn't pick JJ in the first round. His game just won't translate well to the NBA.


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



texan said:


> I wouldn't pick JJ in the first round. His game just won't translate well to the NBA.


I don't understand your comments, the NBA always needs shooters and that is what JJ Redick is. I would want him on my team any day especially if I have a dominate big man who can kick it out to Redick for a 3. There are numerous players in the league who have made a living off of that. However, I would not take him with a lottery pick just to be a spot up shooter, however, the late 1st would be a perfect team situation and pick for him.


----------



## crazyfan

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

redick has to be picked in the 1st round at the very very least. he is a top 15 currently to me and duke win it all... who knows? 
redicks bails duke out of trouble by making some huge shots with the shot clock running down otherwise they might not be unbeaten


----------



## butr

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



texan said:


> I wouldn't pick JJ in the first round. His game just won't translate well to the NBA.


Yeah, shooting, getting to the line and making them, high work ethic and strong conditioning just don't belong in the NBA.

Maybe if he were a fat pimp who could dunk he might make the first round.

Etardedre.


----------



## tbp82

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I think a guy like Reddick can come in and contribute right away. He can hit the jumper and with so many teams with young players as the centerpiece they could use his leadership. The thing with a guy like J.J. is every team can use a guy like him but you don't pass on a potential star to get him. He would be a great addition with Toronto's second pick (Denver) he could really flurish as the man taking the big shot and feeding off Bosh double teams. Orlando would be a great fit with Dwight Howard a candidate to become the best player in the NBA after Duncan gives up that title. Also if Chicago could get their hands on Larmarcus Aldridge with the #1 pick (if it comes from the Knicks) they could take a shot at J.J. to feed of LA who will put up points in this league. A top 5 pick...........no a great piece to a championship team.......................yeah.


----------



## AZwildcats4

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



tbp82 said:


> I think a guy like Reddick can come in and contribute right away. He can hit the jumper and with so many teams with young players as the centerpiece they could use his leadership. The thing with a guy like J.J. is every team can use a guy like him but you don't pass on a potential star to get him. He would be a great addition with Toronto's second pick (Denver) he could really flurish as the man taking the big shot and feeding off Bosh double teams. Orlando would be a great fit with Dwight Howard a candidate to become the best player in the NBA after Duncan gives up that title. Also if Chicago could get their hands on Larmarcus Aldridge with the #1 pick (if it comes from the Knicks) they could take a shot at J.J. to feed of LA who will put up points in this league. A top 5 pick...........no a great piece to a championship team.......................yeah.


 :clap:


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Is JJ any better than Korver?


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Jonathan Watters said:


> I agree with your original statement.
> 
> But 6th men are drafted in the lottery all the time...


I also agree. Since this is the worst draft class since 2000 at least, if Redick will be a sixth man, maybe ready to go, somewhat known... maybe Hubert Davis or a even a little like Allan Houston, this might be the time for a limited player to go over Splitter or some "upside" guy.

Of course he'd still have to school guys in the NCAAs and Chicago pre-draft, too.


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



vigilante said:


> Yikes. Me too.


I'm sorry for all the worst teams this year.


----------



## butr

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Hmm...

16 FT attempts today. Damn jump shooter mentality! When will he ever learn? You can't succeed just spotting up.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



blowuptheraptors said:


> Hmm...
> 
> 16 FT attempts today. Damn jump shooter mentality! When will he ever learn? You can't succeed just spotting up.



Thats why he should be a top 5 pick


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

missed four FT's in one game... drops to second round


----------



## Dez24

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

JJ Redick is an awesome college player and means tremendously a lot to Duke's success. Love watching him play and hope to see him play once March Madness rolls around. Can't miss that. However, going into the NBA, all points brought up are relevant. He won't start on any team, but save for maybe Charlotte or even possibly Atlanta. I view him as a late first round or second round pick to a team that could use some offensive scoring power off the bench. I don't expect offensive minded players (point/shooting guards) to play Bruce Bowen defense, but a little defense creates offense. Teams can shoot the ball well and often, but if they can't defend they won't win many games that way. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing JJ on the Bucks - he can back up Michael Redd (since Redd plays zero to .1% defense on any given night).


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I really would like those claiming he is a top 5 pick to tell me why JJ is better than Salim or kyle Korver, I'll even throw in travis diener in there for fun.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> I really would like those claiming he is a top 5 pick to tell me why JJ is better than Salim or kyle Korver, I'll even throw in travis diener in there for fun.


Because JJ is by far a better all-around scorer than any of those guys.

I'm sorry, I don't remember, but did any of those guys average 29 points while shooting 50%+ from the floor in college?


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Because JJ is by far a better all-around scorer than any of those guys.
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't remember, but did any of those guys average 29 points while shooting 50%+ from the floor in college?


THE TRUTH will set you free. We will see in just a few months


----------



## Blazer Freak

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I'm a Duke fan, and IMO, I see in this years draft JJ in a McCants situation in this years draft. Could go high, or slip.


----------



## JFizzleRaider

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I think Salim was regarded as a tremendous shooter in college, arguably number 1 last year ahead of Reddick. Nonetheless Salim was the first pick in the 2nd round and is a better version of a Eddie House player. I think in no way will Reddick be as good in the NBA, but I do see him having a similar role. Then again look at Luke Jackson, great shooter and college player, horrible NBA player


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Blink4 said:


> dude can shoot the ****ing lights out, but no one gives him ANY respect on this board. I dont understand it. Best player on the best team, best scorer and pure shooter in college hoops. not saying he is top 5, but people gotta give him some props.


Exactly, the guy has an insane amount of talent and is continuing to improve his game every chance he gets. He works on his weak spots and does all he can to make them one of his strong points. His dribbling has improved, he has that little step back move that he uses that just lets him shoot open shots at will. Not to mention his scoring ability...he's getting better at driving, and when you're good at driving you'll cause more fouls. And we all know JJ is money from the FT line. 

He might not be a top 5 pick, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him picked that high...kids got talent.


----------



## pup2plywif

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Jameh said:


> Exactly, the guy has an insane amount of talent and is continuing to improve his game every chance he gets. He works on his weak spots and does all he can to make them one of his strong points. His dribbling has improved, he has that little step back move that he uses that just lets him shoot open shots at will. Not to mention his scoring ability...he's getting better at driving, and when you're good at driving you'll cause more fouls. And we all know JJ is money from the FT line.
> 
> He might not be a top 5 pick, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him picked that high...kids got talent.


I dont think they would draft him top 5 if they didnt think he could start in the NBA. You dont draft a future 6th man in the top five. Top 5 is always based upon those that have the most potential to be starters if not all stars.


----------



## pac4eva5

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

he might be an "earl boykins" type. comes off the bench and does NOTHING but shoot.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



pac4eva5 said:


> he might be an "earl boykins" type. comes off the bench and does NOTHING but shoot.


And there isn't a doubt in my mind he would thrive during that time. Kid's got mad skillz.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

For the record Dookie V said on the Mike and Mike show on ESPN that JJ Redick will go down as one of the top 15 players ever in the ACC.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> For the record Dookie V said on the Mike and Mike show on ESPN that JJ Redick will go down as one of the top 15 players ever in the ACC.


that could be true depending on how the season finishes.

but that is as a college player, not a pro.


----------



## narrator

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



pup2plywif said:


> I dont think they would draft him top 5 if they didnt think he could start in the NBA. You dont draft a future 6th man in the top five. Top 5 is always based upon those that have the most potential to be starters if not all stars.


 As sad as it is, everything in the NBA draft is all about potential rather than actual ability. Every year teams make picks based on it and every year some team gets burned.

People always lament the death of the jump shot. Well, here's a guy who can shoot the lights out and play better defense than Korver (not a great comparison but it was made above so I'll continue it). If you think his defense won't improve, I'd like to point out the strides he's made since he was a freshman when he WAS just a jump shooter (and nothing more). His defense has improved. He's no Bruce Bowen, but then who is? He likely won't embarrass himself out there and he will, in all likelihood, improve. If he's an above average defender in the NBA, with his shot, there will be a job for him on every team.

Also, there are knocks on his size. I see Chris Paul doing well even though everyone said he was too undersized for the pros. There's no need for everyone on the team to be 6-7 (Atlanta is proving that) but there is a need for jump shooters. There is no reason why he can't operate the same way Reggie Miller did: curl off screens and shoot the lights out all day and all night. (Granted Miller was at least 5 inches taller, but coming off a screen, he should be able to get his shot off with some success most of the time).

So the lesson? Just wait until he gets to the pros. There are no sure things, ever, in something as iffy as the NBA draft.

(And if he flames out, forget I wrote this :tongue: )


----------



## HKF

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Redick is closer to 6'3 than 6'5 and is really unathletic (by NBA standards). He's not going to make it long term in the league. I think he understands this.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> Redick is closer to 6'3 than 6'5 and is really unathletic (by NBA standards). He's not going to make it long term in the league. I think he understands this.


Finally someone that understands some basketball. And like I keep saying what happened to Reddick when he faced athletic guys that have the lenght and the speed to keep up with him. Recalls Michigan State Game and Memphis


----------



## butr

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> Redick is closer to 6'3 than 6'5 and is really unathletic (by NBA standards). He's not going to make it long term in the league. I think he understands this.


'Cause you know how super athletic Larry Bird was. You really need to jump out of the gym to run around those screens. If you don't have an LBJ body you just can't make it in the league today.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> Redick is closer to 6'3 than 6'5 and is really unathletic (by NBA standards). He's not going to make it long term in the league. I think he understands this.





Hbwoy said:


> Finally someone that understands some basketball. And like I keep saying what happened to Reddick when he faced athletic guys that have the lenght and the speed to keep up with him. Recalls Michigan State Game and Memphis


I disagree with the both of you, the NBA is littered with many non-athletic shooters who have a role on the team, so I don't see why Redick would be any different. Redick has a jumpshot and a work ethic, and these alone will keep him in the league. It is amazing how some people think Redick is a top 5 pick while others believe he will not even last 1 year in the league.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



blowuptheraptors said:


> 'Cause you know how super athletic Larry Bird was. You really need to jump out of the gym to run around those screens. If you don't have an LBJ body you just can't make it in the league today.


How tall was Larry Legend, how tall is Rip (the best at running off screens in the league right now) and finally how tall is Reddick?


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> I disagree with the both of you, the NBA is littered with many non-athletic shooters who have a role on the team, so I don't see why Redick would be any different. Redick has a jumpshot and a work ethic, and these alone will keep him in the league. It is amazing who some people think Redick is a top 5 pick while others believe he will not even last 1 year in the league.


Its all a matter of opinion, if I were a GM am taking guys like Mo Ager and Rodney Carney over Reddick. Why, cause they are not as one dimensional as Reddick and have the athleticism to compete in the big leagues. What else does Reddick do besides shoot the ball?

Dont get me wrong, every team needs a dependable shooter and he will make his living from that. But I really dont know why Reddick should be considered a better player than say Fred Hoiberg


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Its all a matter of opinion, if I were a GM am taking guys like Mo Ager and Rodney Carney over Reddick. Why, cause they are not as one dimensional as Reddick and have the athleticism to compete in the big leagues. What else does Reddick do besides shoot the ball?


It's less about opinion and more about need. As I said there are many non-athletic shooters in the league who have made a living. Redick will come into the league and be able to get his shot off just like any other 6'-6'4"shooter in the league. If a team drafts Redick with a top 5 pick they are foolish, but if they draft him in the top 10-20 it will be a good pick, as long as they already have a dominant (wing and/or post) player.

My one bold statement for the day is Redick will have a better NBA career than Mo Ager!


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> It's less about opinion and more about need. As I said there are many non-athletic shooters in the league who have made a living. Redick will come into the league and be able to get his shot off just like any other 6'-6'4"shooter in the league. *If a team drafts Redick with a top 5 pick they are foolish, but if they draft him in the top 10-20 it will be a good pick, as long as they already have a dominant (wing and/or post) player.*


I agree with that thoroughly.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> Redick is closer to 6'3 than 6'5 and is really unathletic (by NBA standards). He's not going to make it long term in the league. I think he understands this.



yeah, ok


----------



## Jonathan Watters

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> It's less about opinion and more about need. As I said there are many non-athletic shooters in the league who have made a living. Redick will come into the league and be able to get his shot off just like any other 6'-6'4"shooter in the league. If a team drafts Redick with a top 5 pick they are foolish, but if they draft him in the top 10-20 it will be a good pick, as long as they already have a dominant (wing and/or post) player.
> 
> My one bold statement for the day is Redick will have a better NBA career than Mo Ager!


That isn't saying much. Ager is having a lousy season, after starting off hot


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Jonathan Watters said:


> That isn't saying much. Ager is having a lousy season, after starting off hot


Yeah, I thought the same after I posted it. I was going to say Carney as well, because for some reason I have my doubts about him, but I backed off.


----------



## HKF

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I didn't say he will flame out after one year. He'll get drafted in the first round and end up just like Casey Jacobsen, Trajan Langdon, Richie Frahm, Randolph Childress and many others before him. Rookie contract up (after two years because of new CBA) and then fighting to keep a 12th man spot. 

This reminds me of the Luke Jackson conversations I had with people. Everyone said oh future real good NBA player til the guy gets to the league and none of that college junk works in the pros. 

Same stuff, different day. I've been watching the NBA since '88, I'm just going to stick with history here. 

Redick is a 6'3 SG who will not be able to create his own shot. The best thing he can be IMO, is Steve Kerr, but in my opinion the best he'll become is a white Tony Delk and that still ain't ****.

Just cause Duke fans don't want to believe it, doesn't sway my opinion one bit on it.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> I didn't say he will flame out after one year. He'll get drafted in the first round and end up just like Casey Jacobsen, Trajan Langdon, Richie Frahm, Randolph Childress and many others before him. Rookie contract up (after two years because of new CBA) and then fighting to keep a 12th man spot.
> 
> This reminds me of the Luke Jackson conversations I had with people. Everyone said oh future real good NBA player til the guy gets to the league and none of that college junk works in the pros.
> 
> Same stuff, different day. I've been watching the NBA since '88, I'm just going to stick with history here.
> 
> Redick is a 6'3 SG who will not be able to create his own shot. The best thing he can be IMO, is Steve Kerr, but in my opinion the best he'll become is a white Tony Delk and that still ain't ****.
> 
> Just cause Duke fans don't want to believe it, doesn't sway my opinion one bit on it.


I am not saying Redick is going to come into the league averaging 20 ppg. Nor did I say, Redick will create his own shot in the NBA. However, I am saying he will have a decent career if he is put in the right situation (dominant bigman or perimeter player). As I said, Redick should not be a top 5 pick, and I am sure many would agree with this, but drafting him 10-20 is a great place. Redick is a situational player who will need support in order to be successful. 

I think the difference between Luke Jackson and Redick is shooting ability. Redick is a pure shooter while Jackson is a streaky shooter at best. As I said the league is full of pure shooters who have made decent careers. Again, no one is saying Redick is a franchise player.


----------



## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> I didn't say he will flame out after one year. He'll get drafted in the first round and end up just like Casey Jacobsen, Trajan Langdon, Richie Frahm, Randolph Childress and many others before him. Rookie contract up (after two years because of new CBA) and then fighting to keep a 12th man spot.
> 
> This reminds me of the Luke Jackson conversations I had with people. Everyone said oh future real good NBA player til the guy gets to the league and none of that college junk works in the pros.
> 
> Same stuff, different day. I've been watching the NBA since '88, I'm just going to stick with history here.
> 
> Redick is a 6'3 SG who will not be able to create his own shot. The best thing he can be IMO, is Steve Kerr, but in my opinion the best he'll become is a white Tony Delk and that still ain't ****.
> 
> Just cause Duke fans don't want to believe it, doesn't sway my opinion one bit on it.






i've never been real big on redick in the pros but what is the differance between him and ben gordon. gordon was a seasoned collegiate who couldnt play the pt and was a little undersized to play the 2. neither are great defenders. gordon has overachieved as far as i'm concerned, could redick be that type of player.


----------



## HKF

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rainman said:


> i've never been real big on redick in the pros but what is the differance between him and ben gordon. gordon was a seasoned collegiate who couldnt play the pt and was a little undersized to play the 2. neither are great defenders. gordon has overachieved as far as i'm concerned, could redick be that type of player.


Comparing Redick to Ben Gordon in terms of basketball talent is not a good idea. Gordon is not a great comparison. Gordon is an elite level NBA scorer. We can go back to that time on these boards (it's there) to before he was drafted when I said that's exactly that on the Bulls board and in the draft boards. 

Saying Redick is like Gordon is crazy. When Gordon carried UConn to the BE Tourney Title w/o Okafor playing by shattering AI's record, anyone could see Gordon was too damn good. He has handles, over 40 inches on his vert, can get his shot without picks at any time and has proven he can score with the best in this league. I think he's playing for the wrong coach but that's me.

Now you say that Gordon has overachieved, I say your expectations were too low for the guy. I expect him to be much better when he's 25 (in two years) then he is now. All-Star level.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rainman said:


> i've never been real big on redick in the pros but what is the differance between him and ben gordon. gordon was a seasoned collegiate who couldnt play the pt and was a little undersized to play the 2. neither are great defenders. gordon has overachieved as far as i'm concerned, could redick be that type of player.


Ben Gordon is a way better ballhandler. His speed also makes up a lot for his size. He can beat virtually anyone of the dribble. Reddick does not have that first step, nor the handles to even be considred as the same level as Gordon. Lets not forget that Gordon is a way better athlete. Both cant guard worth a lick and we all can see thats why Gordon doesnt get the type of minutes he should be.


----------



## kawika

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

About two pages ago, after he was compared to Earl Boykins (!?!?) I seriously thought about saying something along the lines that the draft forum, far more than any other here, never ceases to amaze me in the things I see posted. 

Ben. Gordon. 

:eek8: 

Glad I waited. 

HKF isn't the most tactful guy, but I think his assesment is pretty accurate here, and frankly, I can understand why he gets impatient with some of the Reddick fans. I will say, that besides his freakish range, the one thing JJ has going for him that most of the wash-out/marginal guys don't is a genuinely quick (NBA quick) release. But he's still a longshot (no pun intended) to be anything more than a steve Kerr-type player.


----------



## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



HKF said:


> Comparing Redick to Ben Gordon in terms of basketball talent is not a good idea. Gordon is not a great comparison. Gordon is an elite level NBA scorer. We can go back to that time on these boards (it's there) to before he was drafted when I said that's exactly that on the Bulls board and in the draft boards.
> 
> Saying Redick is like Gordon is crazy. When Gordon carried UConn to the BE Tourney Title w/o Okafor playing by shattering AI's record, anyone could see Gordon was too damn good. He has handles, over 40 inches on his vert, can get his shot without picks at any time and has proven he can score with the best in this league. I think he's playing for the wrong coach but that's me.
> 
> Now you say that Gordon has overachieved, I say your expectations were too low for the guy. I expect him to be much better when he's 25 (in two years) then he is now. All-Star level.


i respect your opinion you know that but from what i've seen of gordon he is getting his shots off of screens and savvy not by wowing anyone with his athletecism(not a bad thing). i think the comparison is from an impact standpoint, by the way if he's(gordon) the second coming why is his name coming up in trade discussion so much.


----------



## HKF

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Cause the Bulls organization foolishly drafted him when they wanted to make Hinrich their franchise player. 

After Gordon is traded and becomes a perennial all-star, Bulls fans will be on suicide watch.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rainman said:


> i respect your opinion you know that but from what i've seen of gordon he is getting his shots off of screens and savvy not by wowing anyone with his athletecism(not a bad thing). i think the comparison is from an impact standpoint, by the way if he's(gordon) the second coming why is his name coming up in trade discussion so much.



I would have to agree. Though I do think Gordon is a much, much better athlete than JJ, Gordon (at least of yet) doesn’t utilize his superb athleticism on offense on a regular basis; he scores most of his points on spot up jumpers, pull-up jumpers, and catching and shooting off a screen.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

..


----------



## Tom

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I'm being converted more and more by Reddick...Sure he isn't exactly what you are looking for in a two physically, but this guy is one of the BEST shooters we have ever seen. He straight up drained a three Past the NBA 3 point line like it was a layup. On the right team he will have a big impact.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I wonder how big of an impact Salim Stoudemire is making right now, who is arguably just as good of a shooter as Reddick is


----------



## vandyke

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I don't care what anybody says have you guys seen this kid play ball, I am not sure if he is a top 5 pick but definitely top 7-8. He's a great shooter but he plays with a big set of balls out there, and he wants to win, give me this kid on my team, give me this kid you can have all the Darko's, Bargnani's, Splitter's,Tskitilvids, at least Redick has produced, players that aren't that great defensively can be covered in a zone in today's nba. You can bring him off the bench for 20 minutes and he can get you 15 pts a game much the same way that the Bulls used Gordon that first year in the league. The teams that pass on Redick are going to be sorry. Top 7 players in this draft:

Gay
Aldridge
Morrison
Bargnani
Carney
Redick
Brewer
Williams


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> I wonder how big of an impact Salim Stoudemire is making right now, who is arguably just as good of a shooter as Reddick is



He may be as good as shooter, but he's nowhere near as explosive a _scorer_.

If Redick is simply a shooter, and Salim was just as good a shooter, why didn't Salim average 29 points per game last season?

Redick is scoring more than 10 points more a game than Salim scored last year, and his fg% is slightly better.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

who ever said JJ Redick was a top 5 pick should just get off his jock already...

NBA players may not look that fast but put a average college defender on just about any NBA player and they'll look fast. Redick is about as quick as your starting 6'10" Small Forwards in the NBA... Kyle Kover has range, slow but atleast he has decent size for his pos. At 6'4" Redick would have to defend 1s and 2s and the guys who are in the leauge like him usually are very gifted athletes who make up for size with speed.... 

Now give him Shaq at the pivot, Horry at 4, Kobe and the 2 and let him just hang out and hit the open 3 on the kick out... he might pan out but he'd have to hit a ton of threes to make up for the massive amount of points he'd give up on the other end.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I agree with the title of this thread, but saying Redick is going to be a flameout is taking it too far. He is doing things at the college level that haven't been seen in a long time. Kerr, Jacobsen, Langdon...they all pale in comparison. If Salim Stoudamire can make it in the league, you better believe Redick can. Stoudamire may have been a better shooter last season, but when you compare senior seasons, Redick easily gets the edge.


----------



## Diable

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Redick is going to be picked in the middle of the first round and he's going to be a good player in the NBA for quite awhile because he can score.Now I really don't care to engage in an endless discussion of the matter,but this season Duke has played what is easily the toughest schedeule in NCAA basketball and Reddick has averaged 28.7 pts against that schedeule in spite of the best efforts of the other teams.He's probably going to score more points in major college basketball than anyone since Waymon Tisdale and Danny Manning.

Everyone keeps talking about how poor a defender he is,but go ahead and tell me about the last time anyone had more than an average day when JJ was defending him.I've watched every game JJ has ever played and I don't remember the last time anyone scored much more than their average when he was defending them.You can talk all you want about JJ's defensive limitations,but how about giving me one example when he was actually gave up a lot of points to anyone in the real world.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> Redick is going to be picked in the middle of the first round and he's going to be a good player in the NBA for quite awhile because he can score.Now I really don't care to engage in an endless discussion of the matter,but this season Duke has played what is easily the toughest schedeule in NCAA basketball and Reddick has averaged 28.7 pts against that schedeule in spite of the best efforts of the other teams.He's probably going to score more points in major college basketball than anyone since Waymon Tisdale and Danny Manning.
> 
> Everyone keeps talking about how poor a defender he is,but go ahead and tell me about the last time anyone had more than an average day when JJ was defending him.I've watched every game JJ has ever played and I don't remember the last time anyone scored much more than their average when he was defending them.You can talk all you want about JJ's defensive limitations,but how about giving me one example when he was actually gave up a lot of points to anyone in the real world.


Two questions

1. How many NBA caliber players have defended him, and if so how well did he fare against them
2. How many NBA caliber players has he defended, and if so how well did they fare against him


----------



## Diable

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Two questions
> 
> 1. How many NBA caliber players have defended him, and if so how well did he fare against them
> 2. How many NBA caliber players has he defended, and if so how well did they fare against him


This must mean that you can't think of much of an answer...You can either back up your arguments or you can't....I take it that you can't


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

If Redick is drafted in the middle of the 1st it will the highlight of his career because I see a very average 8th to 15th man on your average NBA roster. This is not counting the bottom feeders who are products of having too many teams who just seem to be tanking until the Spurs other top teams suck...


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

As for Redick scoring... there are plenty of other players in the leauge who are leaps and bounds better than Redick who are going to do the scoring. Glorified Kick out 3 point shooter. If Lou Deng didn't leave Duke, Diable would be claiming he was the 2nd comming of KG. Take off the blue shades and look at the cold hard truth. Redick is going to be at best an average tweener guard fighting for minutes on any decent team.


----------



## Diable

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Who was guarding JJ in the Meadowlands?Palacios?Gibson?...Some scrub maybe.Too bad that Texas stunk so badly...Or he'd have gone for sixty easy.


----------



## sov82

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> Redick is going to be picked in the middle of the first round and he's going to be a good player in the NBA for quite awhile because he can score.Now I really don't care to engage in an endless discussion of the matter,but this season Duke has played what is easily the toughest schedeule in NCAA basketball and Reddick has averaged 28.7 pts against that schedeule in spite of the best efforts of the other teams.He's probably going to score more points in major college basketball than anyone since Waymon Tisdale and Danny Manning.
> 
> Everyone keeps talking about how poor a defender he is,but go ahead and tell me about the last time anyone had more than an average day when JJ was defending him.I've watched every game JJ has ever played and I don't remember the last time anyone scored much more than their average when he was defending them.You can talk all you want about JJ's defensive limitations,but how about giving me one example when he was actually gave up a lot of points to anyone in the real world.


Duke's played 3 teams this year who'll make it past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. I wouldn't call that the toughest schedule in the NCAA. That being said, Redick is a fine player. You can make a solid argument either way for him being a good NBA player to being a poor NBA player. That being said, it is likely that someone in the mid to late lottery will be on the good side and take him there. He's worked hard on his game and deserves to be taken in the first half of the first round.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> This must mean that you can't think of much of an answer...You can either back up your arguments or you can't....I take it that you can't


In my earlier post I already said what happened to him when he faced athletic wings ala the michigan states and the memphis guys. Those are the kinds of competition he will be facing in the NBA. Regarding his defense am yet to see Reddick guard any notable scorers in the NCAA


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Bitter cheap shots for a school who should cancel the sports they do suck in (which happens to be everything except basketball) will not change the fact Redick won't amount to much of anything being only an average athlete by NBA standards. Average being a reach... I find it hard to even consider him an above average athlete at the college level. JJ's got skills and all that other stuff but he is really lacking what you can't teach... quicks n hops. Like I said earlier, if he can land with the Lakers and be the Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong etc for their Triangle offense he might get 20 minutes a night but that can't justify a top 5 pick, hell it doesn't even justify a first round pick IMO.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



sov82 said:


> Duke's played 3 teams this year who'll make it past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. I wouldn't call that the toughest schedule in the NCAA.


Really? Because everything I've seen has Duke at the hardest schedule in the country.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

redick is going to be able to shoot in the nba.

but is he going to be able to do anything else? if the answer is no, he isn't going to be a good player. sure he will stick around in the league, because there is always a spot in the nba for shooters, but he will only be a starter in a perfect situation(one where he has guys like shaq/wade or yao/tmac to create open looks for him because he won't be able to get them himself). i can't see him being average at anything in the nba besides shooting(which he will be far above average at). if you want to draft a bench shooter with your top 10 pick, go right ahead. i would rather not unless that was the one piece i really needed to become a championship team and most teams picking in that area aren't on that level.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> Bitter cheap shots for a school who should cancel the sports they do suck in (which happens to be everything except basketball) will not change the fact Redick won't amount to much of anything being only an average athlete by NBA standards. Average being a reach... I find it hard to even consider him an above average athlete at the college level. JJ's got skills and all that other stuff but he is really lacking what you can't teach... quicks n hops. Like I said earlier, if he can land with the Lakers and be the Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong etc for their Triangle offense he might get 20 minutes a night but that can't justify a top 5 pick, hell it doesn't even justify a first round pick IMO.



To compare him to Steve Kerr is just flat out ridiculous. 

And before you tell me (as others have) that Kerr was a great college player, he wasn't even in JJ's league.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> Really? Because everything I've seen has Duke at the hardest schedule in the country.


I believe they're #1 in the rpi.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Tony Kornheiser in the Washington Post on Redick:



> Yet people delight in claiming Redick won't be a good pro. Or he won't even be a pro. They say he's too slow, too small and, of course, too white. (Oddly, nobody who ever guards him or coaches against him says that.) Part of this is the natural antipathy folks show toward Duke in the same way they show it toward the Yankees, whom they hate for being the best. And part of it is blindness.
> 
> Either way, it's beside the point. Redick is the best college basketball player in the country, and he's likely to wind up as the highest scorer in the vaunted history of the ACC. Hate Redick all you want for all your small reasons. But appreciate how good he is, and count yourself lucky if you got the chance to see him play against Georgetown and Maryland. Like a foot of snow, players like him don't drop by all that often.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/13/AR2006021301817.html


----------



## kawika

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I'm not sure I see how that Kornheiser excerpt really backs up the pro-Reddick camp for the disussion at hand. To re-quote:



> Yet people delight in claiming Redick won't be a good pro.


Well, some people do delight in it I suppose, because Duke is indeed the Yankees, and generally, if you're not a Duke a fan, you can't stand them. But whether one "delights" in saying so, or says so reluctantly and with a heavy heart, that doesn't really alter whether that opinion of him is valid or not. 




> Either way, it's beside the point. Redick is the best college basketball player in the country, and he's likely to wind up as the highest scorer in the vaunted history of the ACC.


Well, for the puposes of _his column_ it is beside the point. For the purposes of _this thread_, the issue of whether he's too short and slow for the NBA is entirely relevant on exactly on point.


----------



## Hoopla

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

For someone who has stayed in college for four years, Redick is fairly difficult to evaluate. On a simple level, it is a matter of balancing his remarkable senior season with the precedent of simlilar-styled players being a disappointment in the nba. A few points:

* His height. If he measures at closer to 6' 3", this will hurt him because every inch matters. In the NBA, athletes are much longer and the close-out times to get to an open shooter are much shorter.

* Redick is not a liability on defense, but is not a standout defender either. On the college level, I would label his man defense as about average. He will be guarding taller and more athletic players in the NBA, however. His help defense, especially getting in passing lanes, has been pretty good.

* The Steve Kerr comparisons aren't valid because Kerr was a very good ball-handler which *allowed him to play PG*. If Kerr couldn't handle the ball, very few people would know who he was today.

* The Langdon comparisons are flawed because Redick has a much quicker release and the release takes place after better elevation.

* His adding of a mid-range game is important. He may not be able to drive and pull up a 15 footer over NBA athletes. But the simple pump fake/overplay by the defender can be used by him to get a shorter jumper.

I can't say with much conviction as to exactly how good Redick will be in the NBA, only that it will be somewhere between decent backup SG and very good starter(ie, not quite an All-Star). I think Jeff Hornacek was someone who like Redick was an excellent shooter and had a similar frame and athleticism. What allowed Hornacek to be so productive were his crafty ball-handling and passing skills.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



kawika said:


> I'm not sure I see how that Kornheiser excerpt really backs up the pro-Reddick camp for the disussion at hand. To re-quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, some people do delight in it I suppose, because Duke is indeed the Yankees, and generally, if you're not a Duke a fan, you can't stand them. But whether one "delights" in saying so, or says so reluctantly and with a heavy heart, that doesn't really alter whether that opinion of him is valid or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for the puposes of _his column_ it is beside the point. For the purposes of _this thread_, the issue of whether he's too short and slow for the NBA is entirely relevant on exactly on point.




I'm not saying that it does back me up...and trust me, I wouldn't consider Kornheiser an expert on anything and wouldn't cite him to support an argument.

I just thought his thoughts on why people feel the need to criticize his NBA potential were interesting.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hoopla said:


> * The Steve Kerr comparisons aren't valid because Kerr was a very good ball-handler which allowed him to play PG. If Kerr couldn't handle the ball, very few people would know who he was today.
> 
> * The Langdon comparisons are flawed because Redick has a much quicker release and the release takes place after better elevation.
> 
> * His adding of a mid-range game is important. He may not be able to drive and pull up a 15 footer over NBA athletes. *But the simple pump fake/overplay by the defender can be used by him to get a shorter jumper.*


Very good stuff there--I especially like the bolded part. That is Redick's biggest improvement this season, and something that often gets overlooked. 

It's nice to see someone who doesn't rely on the oversimplified Langdon and Kerr comparisons.

As to Kerr, I think it's also important to point out that Kerr was never half the scorer JJ is (I mean literally, he never averaged even half of what JJ's averaging this season) and had pretty much nothing for a mid-range game.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Very good stuff there--I especially like the bolded part. That is Redick's biggest improvement this season, and something that often gets overlooked.
> 
> It's nice to see someone who doesn't rely on the oversimplified Langdon and Kerr comparisons.
> 
> As to Kerr, I think it's also important to point out that Kerr was never half the scorer JJ is (I mean literally, he never averaged even half of what JJ's averaging this season) and had pretty much nothing for a mid-range game.


What position do you think Reddick will play in the NBA? Remember Rashard Mccants a more complete offensive player, a much better athlete and arguably a better defender. Know why he doesnt get as much playing time?


----------



## Diable

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> What position do you think Reddick will play in the NBA? Remember Rashard Mccants a more complete offensive player, a much better athlete and arguably a better defender. Know why he doesnt get as much playing time?


 He was shooting 19% from three earlier this year...Could have something to do with it.I never heard anyone argue that McCants was a good defender...Only that he didn't seem to care about playing defense.Reddick is a much better defender than McCants because he actually plays defense.


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

To me Reddick seems a much better player then a lot of the other pure shooters.
His release is far quicker then a guy like Langdon and Reddick get more lift then either Langdon or a Steve Kerr.

He is much more conistent shooter then Stoudamire who also to me doesn't do nearly as good of a job as getting open as Reddick either. Seems like a smarter player and has a little Rip Hamilton in him in that he works to get himself open

Comparing him to Kerr is selling him short too as well and Reddick is a far better score and a nice midrange game.

I hate Duke though so after all my positives there is no way he can be a primary scorer in the NBA- he'll have to go against guys like Ager night in and night out and he doesn't have the athleticism (he to me just looks like slight above average college athlete which means below average NBA player - particulary since the SG is filled with athletic freaks) to create his own shot. If he was maybe 2 inches taller then the athleticism standpoint wouldn't be an issue but he isn't

That being said I think the comparison to a better version of Hornacek is a very solid one. If he goes to a team like the Cavaliers for example he could do very very well. Hell put him on the Cavs right now with Lebron and Z and I think he could average 15ppg easily with all the open looks shooters get. Yes I think Reddick is going to be a much better player then Damon Jones and if Damon Jones can make it in the league then Reddick can


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> He was shooting 19% from three earlier this year...Could have something to do with it.I never heard anyone argue that McCants was a good defender...Only that he didn't seem to care about playing defense.Reddick is a much better defender than McCants because he actually plays defense.


That and the fact that Mccants is undersized in the league and he keeps going against stronger and faster wings. Salim is averaging pretty good numbers for a rookie but as to come off the bench because he is facing same the size issues. Now am not saying Reddick will fail in the big leagues, but anyone who thinks he should be a lottery pick I strongly disagree with. Remeber Taylor Coppenrath, who had an excellent college season, he didnt even crack an NBA team. Being a good college player does not guarantee success in the NBA.


----------



## Gilgamesh

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Just a question: Who's a better draft prospect? Redick or Shawn Respert?


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> What position do you think Reddick will play in the NBA? Remember Rashard Mccants a more complete offensive player, a much better athlete and arguably a better defender. Know why he doesnt get as much playing time?


Actually, Redick is a better defender than McCants and a better scorer (McCants is about as bad as it gets). I'm not sure how you can say he's a more complete offensive player and I'm sure you can't support that statement with any type of statistic.

And also consider that McCants is a selfish headcase, and doesn't have the hardworker reputation that Redick has.

So in summation, not a good comparison. At all.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



 Pioneer10 said:


> To me Reddick seems a much better player then a lot of the other pure shooters.
> His release is far quicker then a guy like Langdon and Reddick get more lift then either Langdon or a Steve Kerr.
> 
> He is much more conistent shooter then Stoudamire who also to me doesn't do nearly as good of a job as getting open as Reddick either. Seems like a smarter player and has a little Rip Hamilton in him in that he works to get himself open
> 
> Comparing him to Kerr is selling him short too as well and Reddick is a far better score and a nice midrange game.
> 
> I hate Duke though so after all my positives there is no way he can be a primary scorer in the NBA- he'll have to go against guys like Ager night in and night out and he doesn't have the athleticism (he to me just looks like slight above average college athlete which means below average NBA player - particulary since the SG is filled with athletic freaks) to create his own shot. If he was maybe 2 inches taller then the athleticism standpoint wouldn't be an issue but he isn't
> 
> That being said I think the comparison to a better version of Hornacek is a very solid one. If he goes to a team like the Cavaliers for example he could do very very well. Hell put him on the Cavs right now with Lebron and Z and I think he could average 15ppg easily with all the open looks shooters get. Yes I think Reddick is going to be a much better player then Damon Jones and if Damon Jones can make it in the league then Reddick can


That is as fair and thoughtful analysis of Redick’s game that I’ve seen. Repped.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Actually, Redick is a better defender than McCants and a better scorer (McCants is about as bad as it gets). I'm not sure how you can say he's a more complete offensive player and I'm sure you can't support that statement with any type of statistic.
> 
> And also consider that McCants is a selfish headcase, and doesn't have the hardworker reputation that Redick has.
> 
> So in summation, not a good comparison. At all.


Reddick is a shooter plain and simple. Rashard is a scorer, just like Ben Gordon. One thing Rashard has over Reddick ishis athleticism, even his teammates were suprised at his athleticism. His game is not one dimensional, he can score with different moves. The same cannot be said about JJ REddick. You do know that NBA type defenders will not give Reddick the luxury to create all those seperation type moves he uses in College. If Korver can be put in check, I am pretty sure the same can be done to Reddick who as about the same level of athleticism as Kyle.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Reddick is a shooter plain and simple. Rashard is a scorer, just like Ben Gordon. One thing Rashard has over Reddick ishis athleticism, even his teammates were suprised at his athleticism. His game is not one dimensional, he can score with different moves. The same cannot be said about JJ REddick. You do know that NBA type defenders will not give Reddick the luxury to create all those seperation type moves he uses in College. If Korver can be put in check, I am pretty sure the same can be done to Reddick who as about the same level of athleticism as Kyle.



But how does that athleticism help McCants if he doesn’t utilize it? About 50% of Redick’s shots this season are 3 pointers, wheras 45% of McCants’s shots were 3 pointers last year, so there isn’t a huge difference there. 

Also consider that JJ shoots a higher percentage on 2 point field goals than McCants did.

I’m not denying that McCants is easily a better athlete, I’m just trying to show that he didn’t necessarily utilize his superior athleticism, and the fact that he is a better athlete does not mean he’s a better all-around offensive player than Redick.

And all of that is, of course, ignoring the fact that Redick is a far more intelligent offensive player, and the fact that Redick is scoring more than 8 points per game more than McCants did last year, while shooting more accurate percentages.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> But how does that athleticism help McCants if he doesn’t utilize it? About 50% of Redick’s shots this season are 3 pointers, wheras 45% of McCants’s shots were 3 pointers last year, so there isn’t a huge difference there.
> 
> Also consider that JJ shoots a higher percentage on 2 point field goals than McCants did.
> 
> I’m not denying that McCants is easily a better athlete, I’m just trying to show that he didn’t necessarily utilize his superior athleticism, and the fact that he is a better athlete does not mean he’s a better all-around offensive player than Redick.
> 
> And all of that is, of course, ignoring the fact that Redick is a far more intelligent offensive player, and the fact that Redick is scoring more than 8 points per game more than McCants did last year, while shooting more accurate percentages.


All good points, but the NBA is a league where athleticism and talent play a huge part. Reggie and Rip were successful at running of those screens primarily because they usually were one of the fastest players on the court. Reddick doesnt really have the footspeed and I already compared him to Kyle Korver on as almost the same athletically and speedwise.


----------



## KB21

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Someone asked the question earlier that if Salim Stoudamire was as good as JJ Redick is, why didn't he average 28 points per game like JJ is doing?

He could have if he shot the ball as much as JJ. Salim's PPS last season at Arizona was 1.59, compared to JJ's 1.61 PPS from this season. There's not a lot of difference there.

When you break it down, the numbers look like this:

Salim took roughly 12 shots per game last season and hit 6 of them. He averaged 6.6 three points per game, and averaged hittine 3.3 of them. Salim shot 50% from behind the arc as well as inside the arc.

JJ Redick takes roughly 18 shots per game this season and hits 9 of them on average. He shoots 9 three pointers per game and hits 4 on average. His three point percentage is roughly 43%, compared to the 50% that Salim shot. However, he takes more shots.

I forgot to look at the free throw numbers when looking at this.

Truth be known, Salim's production as a rookie this season is probably what will get JJ drafted in the lottery. Salim is one of the top 10 rookies in the league, and if I'm not mistaken, he's top 5 among rookies in scoring.

JJ Redick doesn't do enough things with the basketball to be anything more than a role player in the NBA. I see no reason he can't fill the role of a jump shooter off the bench, much like Salim has done with the Hawks.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hoopla said:


> I can't say with much conviction as to exactly how good Redick will be in the NBA, only that it will be somewhere between decent backup SG and very good starter(ie, not quite an All-Star). I think Jeff Hornacek was someone who like Redick was an excellent shooter and had a similar frame and athleticism. What allowed Hornacek to be so productive were his crafty ball-handling and passing skills.


i think the hornacek is a good comparison for a best case scenario for jj redick(and when i talk about hornacek, i mean the utah one because i can't imagine jj getting 6 assists a game). that said, do you draft that in the top 5 or 10? i guess that depends on what you think of everyone else in the draft.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Pioneer10 said:


> To me Reddick seems a much better player then a lot of the other pure shooters.
> His release is far quicker then a guy like Langdon and Reddick get more lift then either Langdon or a Steve Kerr.
> 
> He is much more conistent shooter then Stoudamire who also to me doesn't do nearly as good of a job as getting open as Reddick either. Seems like a smarter player and has a little Rip Hamilton in him in that he works to get himself open
> 
> Comparing him to Kerr is selling him short too as well and Reddick is a far better score and a nice midrange game.
> 
> I hate Duke though so after all my positives there is no way he can be a primary scorer in the NBA- he'll have to go against guys like Ager night in and night out and he doesn't have the athleticism (he to me just looks like slight above average college athlete which means below average NBA player - particulary since the SG is filled with athletic freaks) to create his own shot. If he was maybe 2 inches taller then the athleticism standpoint wouldn't be an issue but he isn't
> 
> That being said I think the comparison to a better version of Hornacek is a very solid one. If he goes to a team like the Cavaliers for example he could do very very well. Hell put him on the Cavs right now with Lebron and Z and I think he could average 15ppg easily with all the open looks shooters get. Yes I think Reddick is going to be a much better player then Damon Jones and if Damon Jones can make it in the league then Reddick can


 Good post. For JJ to turn out to have as long and productive career as Hornacek would be optimistic. I wouldn't blow a early 1st for the 2nd coming of Jeff Hornacek tho... thats just me. 


Truth, I didn't say he was like Kerry. I think he would do well playing in a similar situation.


----------



## knicksfan89

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

you have got to be kidding, he is no 1 or 2 at least, the all time leader in 3's now he became tonight in a duke rout, and I should know, i support the blue devils


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



KB21 said:


> Someone asked the question earlier that if Salim Stoudamire was as good as JJ Redick is, why didn't he average 28 points per game like JJ is doing?
> 
> He could have if he shot the ball as much as JJ. Salim's PPS last season at Arizona was 1.59, compared to JJ's 1.61 PPS from this season. There's not a lot of difference there.
> 
> When you break it down, the numbers look like this:
> 
> Salim took roughly 12 shots per game last season and hit 6 of them. He averaged 6.6 three points per game, and averaged hittine 3.3 of them. Salim shot 50% from behind the arc as well as inside the arc.
> 
> JJ Redick takes roughly 18 shots per game this season and hits 9 of them on average. He shoots 9 three pointers per game and hits 4 on average. His three point percentage is roughly 43%, compared to the 50% that Salim shot. However, he takes more shots.
> 
> I forgot to look at the free throw numbers when looking at this.
> 
> Truth be known, Salim's production as a rookie this season is probably what will get JJ drafted in the lottery. Salim is one of the top 10 rookies in the league, and if I'm not mistaken, he's top 5 among rookies in scoring.
> 
> JJ Redick doesn't do enough things with the basketball to be anything more than a role player in the NBA. I see no reason he can't fill the role of a jump shooter off the bench, much like Salim has done with the Hawks.


Wait a minute here. You can't just say "if Salim shot as much as Redick, he would have scored more."

If that's the case, why didn't he shoot more? 

The point is that his percentages wouldn't have held up if he was shooting as much as Redick. And now Redick is shooting far better than 50% from the floor.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Wait a minute here. You can't just say "if Salim shot as much as Redick, he would have scored more."
> 
> If that's the case, why didn't he shoot more?
> 
> The point is that his percentages wouldn't have held up if he was shooting as much as Redick. And now Redick is shooting far better than 50% from the floor.


Salim was playing with Shakur, Adams, Frye and Rogers all players to a certain extent that need the ball in their hands to succeed. I had this same arguement with someone about Frye and why he didnt have a very dominant season last year. Arizona was loaded with scorers. On Duke Reddick is basically their main offensive option, most of the other guys are not thinking about scoring immediately the ball gets into their hands.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Wait a minute here. You can't just say "if Salim shot as much as Redick, he would have scored more."
> 
> If that's the case, why didn't he shoot more?


salim wasn't the point guard and he wasn't the coach. and the teams have different offenses.


----------



## Hitman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



KB21 said:


> Someone asked the question earlier that if Salim Stoudamire was as good as JJ Redick is, why didn't he average 28 points per game like JJ is doing?
> 
> He could have if he shot the ball as much as JJ. Salim's PPS last season at Arizona was 1.59, compared to JJ's 1.61 PPS from this season. There's not a lot of difference there.
> 
> When you break it down, the numbers look like this:
> 
> Salim took roughly 12 shots per game last season and hit 6 of them. He averaged 6.6 three points per game, and averaged hittine 3.3 of them. Salim shot 50% from behind the arc as well as inside the arc.
> 
> JJ Redick takes roughly 18 shots per game this season and hits 9 of them on average. He shoots 9 three pointers per game and hits 4 on average. His three point percentage is roughly 43%, compared to the 50% that Salim shot. However, he takes more shots.
> 
> I forgot to look at the free throw numbers when looking at this.
> 
> Truth be known, Salim's production as a rookie this season is probably what will get JJ drafted in the lottery. Salim is one of the top 10 rookies in the league, and if I'm not mistaken, he's top 5 among rookies in scoring.
> 
> JJ Redick doesn't do enough things with the basketball to be anything more than a role player in the NBA. I see no reason he can't fill the role of a jump shooter off the bench, much like Salim has done with the Hawks.


So you are saying that since a guy like Devin Harris has a better PPS than Alan Iverson that means that Devin can score like Alan if he wanted to?

Um...no.


----------



## arenas809

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rocketeer said:


> i think the hornacek is a good comparison for a best case scenario for jj redick(and when i talk about hornacek, i mean the utah one because i can't imagine jj getting 6 assists a game). that said, do you draft that in the top 5 or 10? i guess that depends on what you think of everyone else in the draft.


Redick even being mentioned Top 5 is a testament to how weak this draft is.

You don't draft specialists/role players in the top 5 or even 10 IMO, especially at the guard position.

6'2 SGs don't become stars in the NBA, unless you have amazing athleticism/talent.

I see him as a system player, and so what he's setting all these records in college, that's because he's been there long enough to do so, and he's been there long enough because he's never been good enough to come out and get drafted high into the NBA.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



arenas809 said:


> Redick even being mentioned Top 5 is a testament to how weak this draft is.
> 
> You don't draft specialists/role players in the top 5 or even 10 IMO, especially at the guard position.
> 
> *6'2 SGs don't become stars in the NBA*, unless you have amazing athleticism/talent.
> 
> I see him as a system player, and so what he's setting all these records in college, that's because he's been there long enough to do so, and he's been there long enough because he's never been good enough to come out and get drafted high into the NBA.


I actually would say he can be a star, but for reasons not related to basketball, same with Adam Morrison. I would change it to off-the ball scorers don't dominate in the league. Off the ball scorers may dominate a few games, but they do not dominate on a consistent basis. Redick and Morrison will be off the ball scorers in the league, so expecting them to dominate is expecting too much. However they both will make a major difference on a team that needs their talent.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Salim was playing with Shakur, Adams, Frye and Rogers all players to a certain extent that need the ball in their hands to succeed. I had this same arguement with someone about Frye and why he didnt have a very dominant season last year. Arizona was loaded with scorers. On Duke Reddick is basically their main offensive option, most of the other guys are not thinking about scoring immediately the ball gets into their hands.


But that only supports my argument. Redick obviously gets much more defensive attention than Salim received, and yet he still shoots a higher percentage from the floor.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rocketeer said:


> salim wasn't the point guard and he wasn't the coach. and the teams have different offenses.



This is absurd. 

What are you saying?

Are you saying Salim was as good as Redick? 

Give me a break.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



arenas809 said:


> Redick even being mentioned Top 5 is a testament to how weak this draft is.
> 
> You don't draft specialists/role players in the top 5 or even 10 IMO, especially at the guard position.
> 
> 6'2 SGs don't become stars in the NBA, unless you have amazing athleticism/talent.
> 
> I see him as a system player, and so what he's setting all these records in college, that's because he's been there long enough to do so, and he's been there long enough because he's never been good enough to come out and get drafted high into the NBA.


So now Redick is 6'2"???


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> Good post. For JJ to turn out to have as long and productive career as Hornacek would be optimistic. I wouldn't blow a early 1st for the 2nd coming of Jeff Hornacek tho... thats just me.
> 
> 
> Truth, I didn't say he was like Kerry. I think he would do well playing in a similar situation.


Why not? Hornacek had a better career (14.5ppg, 3.4rpg, 4.9apg, .403 3pfg%) than a lot of lottery picks. if you put Redick in the right situation (dominant big man or wing player) he will be a 10-14ppg scorer easily.

I think the Jeff Hornacek comparison is a good one, but Hornaceck also was a point guard until he got to Utah. I do believe Redick has a better jumpshot than Hornacek though. Redick is a pure shooter with other skills. Redick also is more athletic than Hornacek ever was. The only area Hornacek is probably better than Redick is in ball handling and playmaking, but I do think Redick will develop a better handle in the league. Redick's game will be running off a series of screens and being a spot up shooter, and at 6'4-6'3, smart and being athletic enough he will get open. People forget much of basketball is mental (understanding space and angles) and this is something Redick has mastered.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Redick will be a fantastic shooter off the bench. He's a great pure shooter and if I was forced to have one person shoot a ball for my life. I would honestly pick him, he just has an aura around him that makes it seem like every shot he's going to take...is in.

Maybe that's just how I feel, but that makes him a bit special to me.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Jameh said:


> Redick will be a fantastic shooter off the bench. He's a great pure shooter and if I was forced to have one person shoot a ball for my life. I would honestly pick him, he just has an aura around him that makes it seem like every shot he's going to take...is in.
> 
> Maybe that's just how I feel, but that makes him a bit special to me.


Which is the question I have been asking all week, why would you pick a bench player at best in the lottery. Its teams that come in after the 14th pick that can really benefit from Reddick.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Which is the question I have been asking all week, why would you pick a bench player at best in the lottery. Its teams that come in after the 14th pick that can really benefit from Reddick.


There are going to be a lot of bench players picked in the lottery this year.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> There are going to be a lot of bench players picked in the lottery this year.


Not surprising but there are lots of players who can contribute better on the pro level at the wing position than Reddick


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Not surprising but there are lots of players who can contribute better on the pro level at the wing position than Reddick


I'll take your word for it.


----------



## cgcatsfan

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Reddick did just set a new NCAA record for threes and he isn't done yet. 
Someone will pick him up as a 2 guard. 

I don't know about top five, but then again, this year's draft is much thinner than last year's.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> I'll take your word for it.


LOL I come of as a Reddick basher


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> Why not? Hornacek had a better career (14.5ppg, 3.4rpg, 4.9apg, .403 3pfg%) than a lot of lottery picks. if you put Redick in the right situation (dominant big man or wing player) he will be a 10-14ppg scorer easily.
> 
> I think the Jeff Hornacek comparison is a good one, but Hornaceck also was a point guard until he got to Utah. I do believe Redick has a better jumpshot than Hornacek though. Redick is a pure shooter with other skills. Redick also is more athletic than Hornacek ever was. The only area Hornacek is probably better than Redick is in ball handling and playmaking, but I do think Redick will develop a better handle in the league. Redick's game will be running off a series of screens and being a spot up shooter, and at 6'4-6'3, smart and being athletic enough he will get open. People forget much of basketball is mental (understanding space and angles) and this is something Redick has mastered.


 With that said... He'd be a nice complement to Lebron and Larry Hughes in Cleveland. All he'd be asked to do is knock down the open shot and stay open when Lebron or Larry drives.


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Looks like I need to make this post again...

R-E-D-I-C-K

you bo-bo experts don't even know how to spell his name. why shoud i believe you know about his game?


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



TM said:


> Looks like I need to make this post again...
> 
> R-E-D-I-C-K
> 
> you bo-bo experts don't even know how to spell his name. why shoud i believe you know about his game?


R-E-_*D*_-I-C-K

*red denotes look at me..........just to drill it home! :biggrin:


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Don't look at me... I've been brainwashed by ESPN's endless coverage of Duke basketball to never forget the name Redick or even how to spell it. It looks like ESPN has brainwashed a few people here into thinking Redick is better than he really is. Two Word. Bob Hurley. 

I don't think he'll be that bad at the next level but you never know.


----------



## Diable

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Bobby Hurley was nearly killed by a drugged up driver.Before that he was doing fine with the Kings.You really don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Aside from that how does he relate to anything else except the fact that you hate Duke for being far better than Texas


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Salim was playing with Shakur, Adams, Frye and Rogers all players to a certain extent that need the ball in their hands to succeed. I had this same arguement with someone about Frye and why he didnt have a very dominant season last year. Arizona was loaded with scorers. On Duke Reddick is basically their main offensive option, most of the other guys are not thinking about scoring immediately the ball gets into their hands.


You make it sound as if Duke had nobody except JJ...


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> Bobby Hurley was nearly killed by a drugged up driver.Before that he was doing fine with the Kings.You really don't know what the hell you are talking about.
> 
> Aside from that how does he relate to anything else except the fact that you hate Duke for being far better than Texas


 Oh yeah, thats what I ment Redick plays like he's been injured by man DUI...or that he'll have the Duke Guard Auto Accidnet curse....

No, Bob Hurley was a very average white guard from Duke who was over hyped when in college which is my pestimistic outlook on JJ Redick. Dig for other ways to try and burn me if you want, take another shot at Texas if you want, bring up Redick's college records... its not going to change a damn thing about JJ's athletic ability, the way duke sucks at everything except basketball, or the majority of people who watch both NBA and College basketball's opinion on Redick being very average when stacked up against NBA talent.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> Aside from that how does he relate to anything else except the fact that you hate Duke for being far better than Texas


last time i checked, jj redick didn't go to texas so i don't see what texas really has to do with this discussion.


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> the way duke sucks at everything except basketball,


ya, i'm almost positive you've already mentioned this in an attempt to bash their football program along with Redick. BTW, I'm also almost positive their soccer team was ranked in the top 5 earlier this year.  But, I don't think this is about university's sports programs, is it?


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rocketeer said:


> last time i checked, jj redick didn't go to texas so i don't see what texas really has to do with this discussion.


Texas football > Duke football... therefore steve sees the need to bring it up.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I wasn't the one to even bring up Texas in this discussion. It was somewhere around page 10 where Diable just figured I hated Duke because they've beat Texas like they do just about everyone else in college basketball. Either way keep the quality posts coming.. I can't get enough of em. :no:


----------



## Jonathan Watters

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> But that only supports my argument. Redick obviously gets much more defensive attention than Salim received, and yet he still shoots a higher percentage from the floor.


The types of shots Salim took last year were at least as difficult as the shots Redick is taking this year.


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> Either way keep the quality posts coming.. I can't get enough of em. :no:





> No, Bob Hurley was a very average white guard





> It looks like ESPN has brainwashed a few people here into thinking Redick is better than he really is. Two Word. Bob Hurley.


Right back at ya


----------



## Diable

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> I wasn't the one to even bring up Texas in this discussion. It was somewhere around page 10 where Diable just figured I hated Duke because they've beat Texas like they do just about everyone else in college basketball. Either way keep the quality posts coming.. I can't get enough of em. :no:


 I asked who was guarding JJ in the Meadowlands didn't I?I also said that I disappointed that Texas couldn't make it a competitive game.I certainly would have liked to have seen what JJ could have done if Duke had not called off the dogs with fifteen minutes left in the second half.I would like to rag on Texas players who were NBA flops,but actually I don't know of any who ever made it to the NBA.None except T.J Ford...the second best PG on the Bucks right now.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



TM said:


> Right back at ya


 Quality is in the eye of the beholder... 

Next year when Redick lost on someones bench we'll look back at this thread and laugh.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> I asked who was guarding JJ in the Meadowlands didn't I?I also said that I disappointed that Texas couldn't make it a competitive game.I certainly would have liked to have seen what JJ could have done if Duke had not called off the dogs with fifteen minutes left in the second half.I would like to rag on Texas players who were NBA flops,but actually I don't know of any who ever made it to the NBA.None except T.J Ford...the second best PG on the Bucks right now.


 Once again, ragging on Texas basketball isn't going to make Redick any more athletic or improve any other part of Duke Athletics so give up.

Heres an honest question for everyone, Would you want Redick to start on your team?


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Diable said:


> I asked who was guarding JJ in the Meadowlands didn't I?I also said that I disappointed that Texas couldn't make it a competitive game.I certainly would have liked to have seen what JJ could have done if Duke had not called off the dogs with fifteen minutes left in the second half.I would like to rag on Texas players who were NBA flops,but actually I don't know of any who ever made it to the NBA.None except T.J Ford...the second best PG on the Bucks right now.


wow this post is ridiculous.

duke really called off the dogs. that's why jj played 37 minutes and took 24 shots(his 2nd highest shot total of the season). oddly enough, for a team that was "calling off the dogs", all 5 starters played more minutes than their per game average for the season. so why make a statement like that? and brad buckman getting hurt early in the first half may have had a little bit to do with texas' poor performance. 

and you really can't name a single player from texas in the nba other than tj ford? i mean, it's not like they have a bunch of superstars, but if you're really a basketball fan you should know at least one other guy.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rocketeer said:


> and you really can't name a single player from texas in the nba other than tj ford? i mean, it's not like they have a bunch of superstars, but if you're really a basketball fan you should know at least one other guy.


Wow. _One_ other guy.

And a chronic underachiever at that.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Wow. _One_ other guy.
> 
> And a chronic underachiever at that.


i just said he should be able to name at least one.

and why does it even matter? i just thought it was dumb he couldn't even name one.

once again, what does texas have to do with jj redick? they played once this season. jj had a great game. duke won. wow. great. what do texas players in the pros have to do with jj redick? or is it just a guy that has nothing else to add, so he has to take a shot at someone else's favorite team. i mean, that's a great way to make your point about something and it definitely makes your points more valid.


----------



## pmac34

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Wow. _One_ other guy.
> 
> And a chronic underachiever at that.


wow, he said AT LEAST ONE

are you like 5 years old or didnt go to school or something?


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> Would you want Redick to start on your team?


What team am I?

(Draft order from DraftExpress.com)
1. Bobcats - JJ's gotta be better than Matt Carroll
2. Bulls - No. I have Ben Gordon.
3. Hawks - No. He isn't a SF, therefore the Hawks wouldn't draft him.
4. Raptors - A true shooter to go with Mo Pete, Bosh, Villa, and Davis. Heck ya.
5. Trailblazers - I don't talk about the Blazers

One other things - this whole thread is dumb because no one knows who's coming out. What if a guy like Tyrus Thomas declares? Or what if for some dumb reason LaMarcus Aldridge doesn't? Or what if a team like Houston sneaks into the Top 5? How about Redick to go with McGrady and Yao.

From all accounts (Duke related people and not), the guy works as hard or harder than anyone else in college basketball. The guy never takes a possession off. And he gets 40%+ from three-point range in college, often while shooting from NBA 3pt distance. "Lost on someone's bench" is another joke comment.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



pmac34 said:


> wow, he said AT LEAST ONE
> 
> are you like 5 years old or didnt go to school or something?


What are you talking about?

Actually, I'm 13.


----------



## zagsfan20

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Wow. _One_ other guy.
> 
> And a chronic underachiever at that.


Chris Mihm
Maurice Evans
James Thomas
Royal Ivey


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



TM said:


> What team am I?
> 
> (Draft order from DraftExpress.com)
> 1. Bobcats - JJ's gotta be better than Matt Carroll
> 2. Bulls - No. I have Ben Gordon.
> 3. Hawks - No. He isn't a SF, therefore the Hawks wouldn't draft him.
> 4. Raptors - A true shooter to go with Mo Pete, Bosh, Villa, and Davis. Heck ya.
> 5. Trailblazers - I don't talk about the Blazers
> 
> One other things - this whole thread is dumb because no one knows who's coming out. What if a guy like Tyrus Thomas declares? Or what if for some dumb reason LaMarcus Aldridge doesn't? Or what if a team like Houston sneaks into the Top 5? How about Redick to go with McGrady and Yao.
> 
> From all accounts (Duke related people and not), the guy works as hard or harder than anyone else in college basketball. The guy never takes a possession off. And he gets 40%+ from three-point range in college, often while shooting from NBA 3pt distance. "Lost on someone's bench" is another joke comment.


 That is the one thing that I admire about Redick is his work ethic and I do hope all does go well for him. But I can't buy into the hype nor say that he's a top 5 pick reguardless of who declares.

Your right about the 5 teams you mentioned but theres a chance anyone these victims of a diluted leauge draft could start. Then again these bottom feeder teams are in need of alot more than just JJ Redick's hard work and shooting. Go head, put on your JJ jersey and hop on the band wagon if you want but just because he plays good on one of the nations best teams with one of the best college basketball coaches to ever coach in a winning system where they are rarely underdogs doesn't mean jack to me. Be realistic here. He's already old in comparison to most 1st rounders anyways. The Bobcats probably will draft his *** so they can have the compilation 1st Team All NCAA from 04,05,06. Maybe they'll win the national championship next year too while they are at it.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> That is the one thing that I admire about Redick is his work ethic and I do hope all does go well for him. But I can't buy into the hype nor say that he's a top 5 pick reguardless of who declares.
> 
> Your right about the 5 teams you mentioned but theres a chance anyone these victims of a diluted leauge draft could start. Then again these bottom feeder teams are in need of alot more than just JJ Redick's hard work and shooting. Go head, put on your JJ jersey and hop on the band wagon if you want but just because he plays good on one of the nations best teams with one of the best college basketball coaches to ever coach in a winning system where they are rarely underdogs doesn't mean jack to me. Be realistic here. He's already old in comparison to most 1st rounders anyways. The Bobcats probably will draft his *** so they can have the compilation 1st Team All NCAA from 04,05,06. Maybe they'll win the national championship next year too while they are at it.


 :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Tom

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I wouldn't want to be a GM....All the stereotypes say that he won't be successful...but he can fill it up. He may be just so good at what he does that he can overcome his quote unquote handicaps.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Tom said:


> I wouldn't want to be a GM....All the stereotypes say that he won't be successful...but he can fill it up. He may be just so good at what he does that he can overcome his quote unquote handicaps.


That's what I'm thinking...kids got limitless talent.


----------



## Hoopla

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> No, Bob Hurley was a *very average *white guard from Duke who was over hyped when in college


Obviously, you saw plenty of Hurley while he was at Duke...


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Jameh said:


> That's what I'm thinking...kids got limitless talent.


jj redick in no way has limitless talent.


----------



## zagsfan20

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Redick will be a Hornacek clone in the league...Which isn't too bad..


----------



## OZZY

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Honestly I was never a huge fan of JJ Redick. However he has really impressed me this year. His shooting skills and wonderful overall conditioning level is very impressive. He runs the court well, has greatly improved on his ball handling skills and now has a variety of ways to score the basketball outside of straight on jump shots.

Like other people have said, if Salim can succeed in the NBA Redick can. Only problem is that fact Redick can not play PG in the NBA. So he will have to play SG and will have a issue on defense. But look at Kyle Kover, I would say he is a worse defender than Redick and he gets on the court because he can shoot. That is what will happen with Redick, he will get on the court because he can score the basketball.

Also have to take into account, if he has improved this much over 4 years in college, with hard work and dedication. Who says he will not continue to improve in the NBA. Might take awhile to make the transition but if he works hard and improves his game over time as much as he has in college he will do just fine.

Is he a top 5 pick? Well depends on who else is coming out. But he is without question in the picture of being a top 5 pick. Probably 10-15 players that could potentially be a top 5 pick, and I would say he is in that group.


----------



## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



zagsfan20 said:


> Redick will be a Hornacek clone in the league...Which isn't too bad..


not a bad comparison


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



OZZY said:


> Honestly I was never a huge fan of JJ Redick. However he has really impressed me this year. His shooting skills and wonderful overall conditioning level is very impressive. He runs the court well, has greatly improved on his ball handling skills and now has a variety of ways to score the basketball outside of straight on jump shots.
> 
> Like other people have said, if Salim can succeed in the NBA Redick can. Only problem is that fact Redick can not play PG in the NBA. So he will have to play SG and will have a issue on defense. But look at Kyle Kover, I would say he is a worse defender than Redick and he gets on the court because he can shoot. That is what will happen with Redick, he will get on the court because he can score the basketball.
> 
> Also have to take into account, if he has improved this much over 4 years in college, with hard work and dedication. Who says he will not continue to improve in the NBA. Might take awhile to make the transition but if he works hard and improves his game over time as much as he has in college he will do just fine.
> 
> Is he a top 5 pick? Well depends on who else is coming out. But he is without question in the picture of being a top 5 pick. Probably 10-15 players that could potentially be a top 5 pick, and I would say he is in that group.


Holy Crap. I agree with Ozzy. About a Duke player no less!

Is the world coming to an end? :wink:

Nice post.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hoopla said:


> Obviously, you saw plenty of Hurley while he was at Duke...


 He was anything but average at Duke, just like Redick.... completely different story when it comes to the NBA.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> He was anything but average at Duke, just like Redick.... completely different story when it comes to the NBA.



Yeah, and that just might have had something to do with a car crash that nearly took his life.


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> No, Bob Hurley was a very average white guard from Duke who was over hyped when in college...





stevemc said:


> He was anything but average at Duke, just like Redick....


You need to be a little more specific. See, I have no problem with your second statement. To say Bob Hurley was an average point guard *in college* is sheer foolishness. But, if I understand you correcntly, that's not what you're saying. That what you made it sound like though with your first comment.

I wouldn't even say he was average in the NBA. In college - now that's a different story.

BTW Truth, fly avatar


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Yeah, and that just might have had something to do with a car crash that nearly took his life.


 He had 5 years to show me something and he didn't do anything of the sort. A career average of 3.8 ppg & 3.3 apg.. come on. Its sad what happened but it doesn't change that he was average at best in NBA standards.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> He had 5 years to show me something and he didn't do anything of the sort. A career average of 3.8 ppg & 3.3 apg.. come on. Its sad what happened but it doesn't change that he was average at best in NBA standards.



The car accident occurred in December of his rookie season!


TYPICAL.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> The car accident occurred in December of his rookie season!
> 
> 
> TYPICAL.


 And Shawn Kemp's munchies ruined his career too but that still doesn't change that he had an average career. You can argue till you're Duke Blue Devil Blue in your face but he had an average career, blame it on the accident... blame it on him being another overrated Duke guard who played with NBA talent against teams that weren't even in their leauge. I'll give Redick this tho, his team isn't near as talented as Hurleys and I do think he'll have a better career than Bobby if he's in the right situation/system but on a team thats just putting their best players on the floor in hopes of not loosing every game (like most of the lottery bound teams this year) i think he won't get quality minutes.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> And Shawn Kemp's munchies ruined his career too but that still doesn't change that he had an average career. You can argue till you're Duke Blue Devil Blue in your face but he had an average career, blame it on the accident... blame it on him being another overrated Duke guard who played with NBA talent against teams that weren't even in their leauge. I'll give Redick this tho, his team isn't near as talented as Hurleys and I do think he'll have a better career than Bobby if he's in the right situation/system but on a team thats just putting their best players on the floor in hopes of not loosing every game (like most of the lottery bound teams this year) i think he won't get quality minutes.



This is so incredibly ignorant, I don't know where to begin.

Do you even know the nature of Hurley's injuries?



> He suffered two collapsed lungs, several broken ribs and facial, knee, wrist and back injuries. Doctors said that his pulmonary injury at the time of his hospitalization was so severe that it was "potentially life threatening," and they warned of possible complications in the next four to five days. Their operation included reattaching the main airway -- or trachea -- to his left lung, which they said was "completely torn" in the accident.


http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/...index.html?s=oldest&offset=128&&&&&&&&&&&&8qa



> His injuries included collapsed lungs - one ripped from his trachea -- broken ribs, a shattered shoulder blade and a partially torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee.
> 
> Hurley was back on court six months later but never was the same player. He last played in the NBA in 1998, and officially ended another comeback last summer when he tore his ACL while playing in the Jersey Shore league.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/horseracing/2001/triplecrown/news/2001/05/01/derby_hurley_ap/

Hey, but don't let the facts get in the way of an argument.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Yeah it was impressive he even played after that but the fact is 3.3 ppg 3.3 apg doesn't get an * because of that. Maybe in the Duke record books but not any any that matter. 


I'm sorry if I doubt your Blue Devils every time draft talk comes up but in the back of my mind I can't get over the fact Duke is an All-Star team compared to 90% of the teams they face. Which makes me wonder of Duke players at the next level. Especially if you're looking for someone to build a franchise around like teams like to do with a top 5 pick. Don't get me wrong now, the school consistantly puts out great players but more often than not they are the side kicks to the super stars.


----------



## UVM Hoop Cat

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

JJ Redick would never be a top 5 pick in the NBA because the morons that are the NBA GM's would be too stupid to draft him.


Seriously, with people like Danny Ainge and Isiah Thomas calling the shots, what do you expect?

Every team in the league could use a guy like Redick- someone who can be counted on to make an outside shot.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



UVM Hoop Cat said:


> JJ Redick would never be a top 5 pick in the NBA because the morons that are the NBA GM's would be too stupid to draft him.
> 
> 
> Seriously, with people like Danny Ainge and Isiah Thomas calling the shots, what do you expect?
> 
> Every team in the league could use a guy like Redick- someone who can be counted on to make an outside shot.


Thats why you are not a GM.


----------



## Mogriffjr

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Ah the Redick thread

He IMO is a top 5 pick

---HE leads the Duke team. Not Shelden, Redick is. When the BD's need a big shot, Redick has the ball in his hands

---He has improved his game 10 fold since becoming a BD. He was just to be a spot up shooter....now he moves around screens with the best of them...he has a killer instinct about himself.

---He's automatic from FT line almost. 92% FT shooter.

---His defense is actually decent. Look, he'll never be a top defender but what Redick does well is get solid position...his lack of great foot speed hurts him. Also, Redick has good hands...he gets into the passing lanes very well.

Everyone could use a shooter of Redick's stature. Him and Morrison are 1-2 in my book. In a time that people are looking for potential players and guys who have talent but haven't shown it, Redick is an example of a fine college prospect who by entering the NBA game will learn how to get better and improve on his NBA made game.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Best thing that could happen to Redick if you ask me is to land with more established team with a strong inside game so he can get plenty of open looks... So I honestly hope for him to drop to Houston like someone said earlier or the Lakers.:whoknows:


----------



## Hoopla

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> He had 5 years to show me something and he didn't do anything of the sort. A career average of 3.8 ppg & 3.3 apg.. come on. Its sad what happened but it doesn't change that he was average at best in NBA standards.


First you claim that Hurley was average at Duke, which is ludicrious. Now you backtrack and apply it to his NBA career, which is fine, although his NBA career was actually well below average.

But what is your point now? You have none. Your original claim was that the media's coverage of Duke basketball results in Redick getting overhyped and that it will be exposed somewhat in the NBA. But you then proceeded to use Hurley as a comparison. Unless if you have some reason to predict that Redick will get into a horrible accident which will derail his NBA career, your logic in using Hurley as a comparison is nonsensical.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hoopla said:


> First you claim that Hurley was average at Duke, which is ludicrious. Now you backtrack and apply it to his NBA career, which is fine, although his NBA career was actually well below average.
> 
> But what is your point now? You have none. Your original claim was that the media's coverage of Duke basketball results in Redick getting overhyped and that it will be exposed somewhat in the NBA. But you then proceeded to use Hurley as a comparison. Unless if you have some reason to predict that Redick will get into a horrible accident which will derail his NBA career, your logic in using Hurley as a comparison is nonsensical.


 umm... over hyped duke guard that doesn't turn out to be all that and a bag of chips like everyone expected for whatever reason...

Is that good enough for you? or should I word it differently?


----------



## Hoopla

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> umm... over hyped duke guard that doesn't turn out to be all that and a bag of chips like everyone expected for whatever reason...


"For whatever reason"...well there's some real insight.



> Is that good enough for you? or should I word it differently?


Just stick with not wording it at all. Your original comparison was invalid and your updated version is pointless.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hoopla said:


> "For whatever reason"...well there's some real insight.
> 
> 
> 
> Just stick with not wording it at all. Your original comparison was invalid and your updated version is pointless.


 "for whatever reason" be it car wreck or people on his nuts so bad he's asking you to scatch them for him...

Since when did you become the end all of what opinions a person can have? I can go on for ever about whatever I want and you're tread like commentary is going to do nothin but keep it goin. This site wouldn't exist if we didn't have people with conflicint opinons for whatever reason, this thread wouldn't be 15 pages if it wasn't for me throwing out reasons why i don't think he's what i'd consider a top 5 pick. oh wait a minute, a person can also do a little something like change their mind on a subject....

I think Redick will be a top 5 pick because of the great arguments you have saying so... 

















nooo not really.. And if I'm wrong? oh frickin well, its not the 1st time or the last time. 

If pointing out that I can be a ******* gets you off more power to ya... I'll let you follow me around and do it for me instead of me having to catch myself doing it.


----------



## Hoopla

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> Since when did you become the end all of what opinions a person can have?


First, this isn't about opinion. This is about you using a comparison which does nothing to support your argument. And second, just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean you need to slap the "oh so you think you know everything" drivel on me.



> This site wouldn't exist if we didn't have people with conflicint opinons


Of course this site wouldn't exist without conflicting opinions...just like it wouldn't exist if people didn't choose to argue/discuss those opinions.



> I think Redick will be a top 5 pick because of the great arguments you have saying so...
> 
> nooo not really.. And if I'm wrong? oh frickin well, its not the 1st time or the last time.
> 
> If pointing out that I can be a ******* gets you off more power to ya... I'll let you follow me around and do it for me instead of me having to catch myself doing it.


Dude, you need to relax. I don't think Redick will be a top 5 pick, nor do I think he will make an All-Star team even once. But you haven't shown in any way that Bobby Hurley is supporting evidence of that assertion. If you want to offer some evidence and get off the soap box, then I'd be glad to listen.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hoopla said:


> First, this isn't about opinion. This is about you using a comparison which does nothing to support your argument. And second, just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean you need to slap the "oh so you think you know everything" drivel on me.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this site wouldn't exist without conflicting opinions...just like it wouldn't exist if people didn't choose to argue/discuss those opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you need to relax. I don't think Redick will be a top 5 pick, nor do I think he will make an All-Star team even once. But you haven't shown in any way that Bobby Hurley is supporting evidence of that assertion. If you want to offer some evidence and get off the soap box, then I'd be glad to listen.


 i've said it before, hurley and redick are both white duke guards overhyped by media. Even before Bobby had the accident I can't say I honestly thought he was going to be an all-star. Hurley probably would of been a nice role player just like I expect Redick to be in the right situation. I don't know i anyone agrees with me on it but I really think Redick will be a waste on a team that just runs iso's all game. 


Like Hurley, I think Redick is a lil undersized for NBA standards. Hurley at 6' 165 was easily abused by bigger stronger PGs. Redick will be if he has to put some D on your average 2. I also worry about him guarding the large amouth of tweener guards who can be some of the faster guys on the court. In short, both are a bit of a defensive liability in their respecitve ways.

Another thing, You can't talk bad about either of them with out getting Dukies upset like you just talked about their momma.


----------



## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

just as a point of referance these players were all picked in the 5-7 range in the last 10 years, see where redick may or may not fit into that list.
ron mercer
jason williams
devin harris
mike miller
wally szcerbiak


----------



## Hoopla

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> Like Hurley, I think Redick is a lil undersized for NBA standards. Hurley at 6' 165 was easily abused by bigger stronger PGs. Redick will be if he has to put some D on your average 2. I also worry about him guarding the large amouth of tweener guards who can be some of the faster guys on the court. In short, both are a bit of a defensive liability in their respecitve ways.


I agree that Hurley was undersized as is Redick. But I think it hurts Redick much more than it would have hurt Hurley. Defensively, Hurley was an excellent on-ball defender, and there is precedent for short PGs having long careers due to their pressure defense. Also, the major problem for Redick as it pertains to size won't be on defense but when he's on offense trying to shoot over taller guards.

And remember that point guard is by far the position with the most difficult and longest transition from college to the NBA (Stockton, Payton, and Nash all had extremely slow starts to their careers). Considering he was a rookie PG, the few games I saw Hurley play pre-accident with the Kings, he was very impressive in.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Redick being unable to shoot over defenders is even more reason for him needing to be on a more established team than those looking to land in the top of the lottery this year. Maybe he'll just bomb his workouts so he can end up in Detroit or San Antonio... :laugh:


----------



## The Krakken

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



stevemc said:


> Heres an honest question for everyone, Would you want Redick to start on your team?


If JJ redick is the starter on my team next year, it means Paxson traded Ben Gordon, who is MUCH better than Redick is going to be.

I would Kill myself.


----------



## The Krakken

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> Wow. _One_ other guy.
> 
> And a chronic underachiever at that.


I'm as big a duke homer as anyone, but do you REALLY want to talk about college programs with underachieving NBA players???


----------



## The Krakken

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rocketeer said:


> jj redick in no way has limitless talent.


:laugh: Its hard to take anyone seriously who uses the words "Limitless", "Talent" in the same sentence with JJ Redick, and as I've already mentioned.....I LOVE Duke Basketball.


----------



## UVM Hoop Cat

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

JJ Redick is one of the best shooters in all of basketball- NCAA and NBA.

He will probably not be a top 5 pick, might not be an NBA All Star, and He is never going to be a Ray Allen or Kobe Bryant-but he will have a long NBA career and win some games for some teams in the NBA with his ability to shoot the basketball. 

JJ Redick isn't overhyped because he is white- he is hyped because he is one of the best pure shooters ever. It also helps that he is on Duke- in case you haven't noticed Duke is on TV more than any other team. Being on Duke has a lot to do with it, if Salim Stoudamire, another great long range shooter, was on Duke last year and JJ was on Arizona, I am guaranteeing we would have all heard more about Salim than JJ. That's just the way things are with Duke and the NCAA.

Bottom Line- the team that drafts JJ Redick is getting a known player, where a lot of teams draft a question mark with "potential", which pollutes the league.


----------



## The Krakken

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



UVM Hoop Cat said:


> JJ Redick is one of the best shooters in all of basketball- NCAA and NBA.
> 
> He will probably not be a top 5 pick, might not be an NBA All Star, and He is never going to be a Ray Allen or Kobe Bryant-but he will have a long NBA career and win some games for some teams in the NBA with his ability to shoot the basketball.
> 
> JJ Redick isn't overhyped because he is white- he is hyped because he is one of the best pure shooters ever. It also helps that he is on Duke- in case you haven't noticed Duke is on TV more than any other team. Being on Duke has a lot to do with it, if Salim Stoudamire, another great long range shooter, was on Duke last year and JJ was on Arizona, I am guaranteeing we would have all heard more about Salim than JJ. That's just the way things are with Duke and the NCAA.
> 
> Bottom Line- the team that drafts JJ Redick is getting a known player, where a lot of teams draft a question mark with "potential", which pollutes the league.


Can't disagree with anything here.

Oddly enough, I see him as the "shane battier" of this years draft. Only a far superior shooter, and not as good a defender. He'll stick around in the league, but an All-Star, he is not. A bottom feeding team would do well not to waste their pick on a shooter, when climbing out of the cellar requires a Star.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Krakken said:


> Can't disagree with anything here.
> 
> Oddly enough, I see him as the "shane battier" of this years draft. Only a far superior shooter, and not as good a defender. He'll stick around in the league, but an All-Star, he is not. A bottom feeding team would do well not to waste their pick on a shooter, when climbing out of the cellar requires a Star.


Hence, why JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick. Gay, Aldridge, Bargnani, Morrison, and Splitter. Five guys with way more upside. Redick just doesn't fit into that category, and it really isn't close. 

The real question is where does Redick fit in with Rodney Carney, Brandon Roy, and Ronnie Brewer? One or two of these four probably makes it in the top 10. One of them likely falls out of the top 15.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I think he's below Carney and Brewer, above Roy. Don't compare JJ to Battier, Battier was a three time defensive player of the year at Duke and wasn't a slouch shooting the ball either. If I have the choice of Battier or Redick, I take Battier ten times out of ten.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Krakken said:


> I'm as big a duke homer as anyone, but do you REALLY want to talk about college programs with underachieving NBA players???



I wasn't. I wasn't the one who brought it up. I simply thought the response that he (whoever brought it up) should at least be able to name one other Texas player was funny.

And I will have a nice big yawn at the underachieving Duke player argument.


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Duke = greatest basketball team in the world... JJ = the top scorer ever at Duke... therefore JJ = greatest basketball player in the world. Of course he's Top 5. My reasoning exceeds all.


----------



## rebelsun

*Redick's NBA Career*

I think this is a better question than what number he'll be picked.


----------



## UVM Hoop Cat

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I just suffered through watching the current NBA All-Star game , and they shot a combined 10-47 from 3  

What a bunch of masons......Redick is going to do just fine in the NBA.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



UVM Hoop Cat said:


> I just suffered through watching the current NBA All-Star game , and they shot a combined 10-47 from 3
> 
> What a bunch of masons......Redick is going to do just fine in the NBA.


 Its the all star game they were trying to entertain the fans. Now if want to dig up league wide shooting percentages over the course of a couple years and say something I might agree with ya but you can't judge the leauges shooting with the players out there trying to impress everyone with stuff they wouldn't normally do in a game. 

As for your comment about all the wasted draft picks blown on kids with potential I couldn't agree more. I wish the NBA would establish a rule similar to the NFLs to force players to goto college, and if they don't learn anything while their there they'll atleast play against guys better than me and anyone else out there who played HS ball. 

Now when everyone is saying he's not a top 5 pick are they saying it because of the talent level of the others expected to come out or is it because they don't see Redick being that much of a player?

In all honesty, he would be one safe pick because atleast you know what your getting with him with all the ESPN coverage. A hard worker who is easily coached and who is capable of playing a role for a team. Some of these other guys who's names are getting thrown around as top picks this year could pan out to be the next Kobes, Tmacs, KGs, J. O'Neils, Amares etc... or they could be the Deshaun Stevensons, Jonathan Benders, and countless other high school to pro flops.. If Redick was available from about 10th to 20th pick and I had a serious need for outside shooting I'd probably go with him over a project. Worst case is he busts his *** to get 10 minutes a game for your team.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Hey, I love JJ Redick, but watching him tonight and going to a few NBA games and staying KINDA up on the Bucks this season has made me realize a few things. First of all, JJ Redick is a fine shooter, but Michael Redd is just so much better. JJ isn't automatically an A+ shooter in the NBA, he isn't on the level of Redd or McGrady. Secondly, watching him tonight showed me that all the talk about him not being able to create his own shot is dead on and not overblown at all. He can't create his own shot. He's a liability every time he puts the ball on the floor and if you just stick to him he can be stopped; not contained, stopped. This was as clear as it ever will be on his historic 3-pointer at the end of the game, his defender like an idiot went for the steal instead of staying with JJ. If he's glued to JJ, then Redick won't make that shot, or maybe not even take it.


----------



## liteface

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

JJ is a great player. All-Star? I don't think so. If he were around at 16 I might take him to play with Nash, Marion and Amare. there are not that many dead eye shooters from the usa around these days.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> Hey, I love JJ Redick, but watching him tonight and going to a few NBA games and staying KINDA up on the Bucks this season has made me realize a few things. First of all, JJ Redick is a fine shooter, but Michael Redd is just so much better. JJ isn't automatically an A+ shooter in the NBA, he isn't on the level of Redd or McGrady. Secondly, watching him tonight showed me that all the talk about him not being able to create his own shot is dead on and not overblown at all. He can't create his own shot. He's a liability every time he puts the ball on the floor and if you just stick to him he can be stopped; not contained, stopped. This was as clear as it ever will be on his historic 3-pointer at the end of the game, his defender like an idiot went for the steal instead of staying with JJ. If he's glued to JJ, then Redick won't make that shot, or maybe not even take it.



One game made you think that?

Maybe you should watch a close Duke game when he's looking to shoot and controlling the ball more.

And he's not on McGrady's level as a shooter? PLEASE.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

He just doesn't have that effortless shot that T-Mac and Redd do. No, one game didn't make me realize it, it's always been there, but I was REALLY concentrating on that tonight, and he let me down.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> He just doesn't have that effortless shot that T-Mac and Redd do. No, one game didn't make me realize it, it's always been there, but I was REALLY concentrating on that tonight, and he let me down.


that's hilarious

He has incredible form, pretty much perfect form, but it's not "effortless"

This would be what they call the "Duke microscope."


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> that's hilarious
> 
> He has incredible form, pretty much perfect form, but it's not "effortless"
> 
> This would be what they call the "Duke microscope."


I agree 100%, Redick is a world class shooter as compared to McGrady being a stricky shooter at best. There is no comparison!


----------



## KG4MVP2

*Re: Redick's NBA Career*

I think Reddick will be a spot starter but he will be one of the best 3point shooters in the league. I predict he will go into the 3point shootout next year and win it.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> I agree 100%, Redick is a world class shooter as compared to McGrady being a stricky shooter at best. There is no comparison!



I love it. Someone says that they watched Redick's shot closely last night, and criticized it for not being effortless. He shot 6-9 on 3's, 10-15 from the floor, and scored 30 points! 

But his shot didn't look effortless.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I dont know why people are making all this hoopla around this guy. He is one heck of a shooter and a great college basketball player but that doesnt guarantee anything on the professional level. The question people should be asking is what other things will he be able to bring to a team besides his outside shooting and quite frankly at this point I really dont see that


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> that's hilarious
> 
> He has incredible form, pretty much perfect form, but it's not "effortless"
> 
> This would be what they call the "Duke microscope."


Yeah, and I had him under that same "Duke microscope" when I was in the Crazies section decked out in all blue for the Maryland game going insane when he had his first in-game dunk ever. Give me a break. He's just not as smooth, maybe you can say he just doesn't have the strength to hit his shot as deep as someone like Redd or McGrady using his usual form. He's just not at that level, that's what I think.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

Redick shooting shouldn't be the question here because I'm sure there are going to be High School kids drafted before him that can't even make a freethrow and have the shooting form of a special ed kid. He can shoot, if its effortless or not the kid can shoot. :laugh:


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> Yeah, and I had him under that same "Duke microscope" when I was in the Crazies section decked out in all blue for the Maryland game going insane when he had his first in-game dunk ever. Give me a break. He's just not as smooth, maybe you can say he just doesn't have the strength to hit his shot as deep as someone like Redd or McGrady using his usual form. He's just not at that level, that's what I think.


What the hell are you talking about? He's hit countless 25+ feet 3's in his career. He's been doing _that_ since high school.

Whether you perceive his form to be effortless isn't relevant. At all.

Of all the criticisms I've seen of his game, I NEVER thought I'd see someone question his form and his range.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

I'm not questioning it. My words were that he's not automatically an A+ outside shooter. That's not questioning anything, it's just saying he's not comming in to the NBA as the best shooter in the game like I've seen people say.

I'm DEFINITELY questioning his ability to create his own shot.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> I'm not questioning it. My words were that he's not automatically an A+ outside shooter. That's not questioning anything, it's just saying he's not comming in to the NBA as the best shooter in the game like I've seen people say.
> 
> I'm DEFINITELY questioning his ability to create his own shot.


And he's not going to be one of the best shooters in the game because his jump shot doesn't look effortless?

What I can't figure out is how a guy averages 29 points per game in a major conference without the ability to create his own shot. If Redick's game were as one dimensional as so many would have me believe, why can't the ACC coaches devise a way to stop him? Couldn't they just switch on screens?


----------



## UVM Hoop Cat

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

JJ Redick has improved every year since his freshman season, and has really improved his ability to create his own shot. That ability probably won't translate well at first into the NBA, but he is a dead-eye shooter and will be the best stand-still outside shooter in the league- that's obvious and clear as day.

People seem to think that by saying he will be the best shooter-then that is implying all these other things- and it isn't. He isn't a guy that can drive, although he has improved that area tremendously this year which leads me to believe he will continue to get better, and he won't break ankles off the dribble- but if he gets open for an outside shot I can't think of another person in the United States of America I would rather have take an open jumper.

He will be a mid to late first rd draft pick and have a 12 year NBA career and hit a bunch of 3's. He probably won't make an All-Star team unless he keeps improving- but he will stick in the league and have a great career.


----------



## Dez24

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> Hey, I love JJ Redick, but watching him tonight and going to a few NBA games and staying KINDA up on the Bucks this season has made me realize a few things. First of all, JJ Redick is a fine shooter, but Michael Redd is just so much better. JJ isn't automatically an A+ shooter in the NBA, he isn't on the level of Redd or McGrady. Secondly, watching him tonight showed me that all the talk about him not being able to create his own shot is dead on and not overblown at all. He can't create his own shot. He's a liability every time he puts the ball on the floor and if you just stick to him he can be stopped; not contained, stopped. This was as clear as it ever will be on his historic 3-pointer at the end of the game, his defender like an idiot went for the steal instead of staying with JJ. If he's glued to JJ, then Redick won't make that shot, or maybe not even take it.


I think if you let Michael Redd and JJ Redick dribble around the court for a while, you'd see Redd would turn it over quicker and a lot more times than Redick would. Redick stays within what the team needs and doesn't feel it necessary to take every shot, whereas Redd's only concern is shooting (hence no defense played compared to Redick. And yes Redick isn't a defensive guru, but at least is decent at it for an offensive minded player.. Redd wouldn't know defense if the brick he throws up hit him in the head). And I've seen plenty of three pointers JJ has made over defenders. Redd doesn't take as many. And though Redd has hit some amazing shots, he struggles finding his own shots. By the time he has the shot, he's dribbled into triple coverage and lost the ball or has an ugly shot looking for a non existant foul to be called. Given the choice of Redd or JJ to take a game winning shot, I'll take JJ over Redd any day. And I do like Redd, don't want to make it sound like I'm totally bashing him.....just had to speak my peace.


----------



## Dez24

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> One game made you think that?
> 
> Maybe you should watch a close Duke game when he's looking to shoot and controlling the ball more.
> 
> And he's not on McGrady's level as a shooter? PLEASE.


One thing to add....Is Michael Redd on McGrady's level? No where near and never will be.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> I'm not questioning it. My words were that he's not automatically an A+ outside shooter. That's not questioning anything, it's just saying he's not comming in to the NBA as the best shooter in the game like I've seen people say.
> 
> I'm DEFINITELY questioning his ability to create his own shot.


This post epitomizes the problem I have with haters regarding JJ Redick. You guys are the only ones raising the expectations of Redick so high, so that you can say, "see I told you so" when he doesn't reach them. Just because he is expected to be a top 10-15 pick that doesn't automatically mean he has a requirement to be a Kobe, D. Wade, LeBron James type of player. The draft EVERY year is filled with guys who are picked in the top 10-15 who become role players their entire careers, so why is Redick any different? Atleast with Redick he has mastered a skill.


No one is saying Redick will come into the league as the best shooter, and if they did they probably are nothing more that Duke homers, so thier opinions should be taken as such. However, that doesn't change the fact that Redick is a world class shooter.

What does "creating his own shot" of the dribble have to do with anything? Redick is a spot up, run of screens shooter in the NBA, so having to "create his own shot" of the dribble is a pointless arguement. Actually if you understand basketball there is a lot that goes into spotting up and running of screens to get open. Both involve understanding proper spacing and an understanding of angles. Not to mention having a great deal of skill that is involved in the shooting motion, so he does create his own shot!. No one is saying he will be a Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant type of player in the league who creates his own shot off the dribble. So, again that argument is pointless!

JJ Redick has a skill and that skill is as a shooter. Players every year are drafted because of a skill, so what makes Redick so different? Redick haters are quick to point out defeciencies in his game such as ball handling or "creating his own shot" off of the dribble, but those arguments are pointless when understanding the role Redick is going to play in the NBA.

JJ Redick understands his role in the NBA, I just wish his haters would as well. 

"I think I'll be a role player like 80 percent of the players in the league are. I don't expect to be a star." - JJ Redick


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> This post epitomizes the problem I have with haters regarding JJ Redick. You guys are the only ones raising the expectations of Redick so high, so that you can say, "see I told you so" when he doesn't reach them. Just because he is expected to be a top 10-15 pick that doesn't automatically mean he has a requirement to be a Kobe, D. Wade, LeBron James type of player. The draft EVERY year is filled with guys who are picked in the top 10-15 who become role players their entire careers, so why is Redick any different? Atleast with Redick he has mastered a skill.
> 
> 
> No one is saying Redick will come into the league as the best shooter, and if they did they probably are nothing more that Duke homers, so thier opinions should be taken as such. However, that doesn't change the fact that Redick is a world class shooter.
> 
> What does "creating his own shot" of the dribble have to do with anything? Redick is a spot up, run of screens shooter in the NBA, so having to "create his own shot" of the dribble is a pointless arguement. Actually if you understand basketball there is a lot that goes into spotting up and running of screens to get open. Both involve understanding proper spacing and an understanding of angles. Not to mention having a great deal of skill that is involved in the shooting motion, so he does create his own shot!. No one is saying he will be a Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant type of player in the league who creates his own shot off the dribble. So, again that argument is pointless!
> 
> JJ Redick has a skill and that skill is as a shooter. Players every year are drafted because of a skill, so what makes Redick so different? Redick haters are quick to point out defeciencies in his game such as ball handling or "creating his own shot" off of the dribble, but those arguments are pointless when understanding the role Redick is going to play in the NBA.
> 
> JJ Redick understands his role in the NBA, I just wish his haters would as well.
> 
> "I think I'll be a role player like 80 percent of the players in the league are. I don't expect to be a star." - JJ Redick


*
Well then maybe if ESPN and other media outlets stopped hyping him like the second coming of Christ people wouldnt have such high expectations. When was the last time a role player got so much hype coming into the league*


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> *
> Well then maybe if ESPN and other media outlets stopped hyping him like the second coming of Christ people wouldnt have such high expectations. When was the last time a role player got so much hype coming into the league*


I disagree, ESPN and most media outlets who actually follow basketball hype him as a great college player because he is (check the record books). However, most of those same media outlets understand Redick is not going to come into the league and take it by storm ala LeBron James, as most of you haters want to claim they and fans are saying. Actually most of these media outlets have the same scouting report on Redick: a world class shooter, competitive, a tweener as a sg, liability on defense. Him being mentioned as a top 5-10 pick has more to do with it being a relatively week draft in 06', but you can't blame Redick for that. 

Would you rather Redick come out and say, "Guys please stop putting me in the top 5-10 of your mock drafts, because I really am not that good and I don't want to make my haters mad!" You can't blame Redick for what you think is being overhyped.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> *
> Well then maybe if ESPN and other media outlets stopped hyping him like the second coming of Christ people wouldnt have such high expectations. When was the last time a role player got so much hype coming into the league*



What the hell are you talking about? Who is hyping him as a great *NBA* player? Most people in the national media argue that he will be a decent to good NBA player. Who's hyping him as the second coming of Christ in regard to the NBA? 

Most people in the national media hype him as a college player, and it's absolutely deserved. He's having an incredible season, and like I said before, one of the best offensive seasons in the past 20 years. 

So most people in the national media are hyping his as a great college player, and probably NPOTY. But I haven't heard a single person claim he's going to be a star in the NBA, let alone the next coming of Christ. It seems to me you're making stuff up.


----------



## Mogriffjr

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> I disagree, ESPN and most media outlets who actually follow basketball hype him as a great college player because he is (check the record books). However, most of those same media outlets understand Redick is not going to come into the league and take it by storm ala LeBron James, as most of you haters want to claim they and fans are saying. Actually most of these media outlets have the same scouting report on Redick: a world class shooter, competitive, a tweener as a sg, liability on defense. Him being mentioned as a top 5-10 pick has more to do with it being a relatively week draft in 06', but you can't blame Redick for that.
> 
> Would you rather Redick come out and say, "Guys please stop putting me in the top 5-10 of your mock drafts, because I really am not that good and I don't want to make my haters mad!" You can't blame Redick for what you think is being overhyped.


I agree with this 100%...


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Who is hyping him as a great *NBA* player? Most people in the national media argue that he will be a decent to good NBA player. Who's hyping him as the second coming of Christ in regard to the NBA?
> 
> Most people in the national media hype him as a college player, and it's absolutely deserved. He's having an incredible season, and like I said before, one of the best offensive seasons in the past 20 years.
> 
> So most people in the national media are hyping his as a great college player, and probably NPOTY. But I haven't heard a single person claim he's going to be a star in the NBA, let alone the next coming of Christ. It seems to me you're making stuff up.


I have heard quite a few say that he will be an allstar caliber player. Next time Duke plays, listen to Dickie V rant on and on about how amazing this kid will be on the next level. The fact of the matter is a team that picks between 5 and 10 is usually a team that desperately needs someone that can step in and contribute immediately. Now as a GM are you willing to take a risk on a guy that you are not even sure if he is going to be a starter in the league.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> I have heard quite a few say that he will be an allstar caliber player. Next time Duke plays, listen to Dickie V rant on and on about how amazing this kid will be on the next level. The fact of the matter is a team that picks between 5 and 10 is usually a team that desperately needs someone that can step in and contribute immediately. Now as a GM are you willing to take a risk on a guy that you are not even sure if he is going to be a starter in the league.


Dickie V? Are you sure you didn't mean Dukie V? I hope you aren't using the same Dickie V who has nothing negative to say about any college basketball player let alone a Duke one to validate you claim because if you are, I would say you are seriously reaching!


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> Dickie V? Are you sure you didn't mean Dukie V? I hope you aren't using the same Dickie V who has nothing negative to say about any college basketball player let alone a Duke one to validate you claim because if you are, I would say you are seriously reaching!


Dickie V hating on duke, now thats a first. I could swear he slobbers all over..sorry thats inappropriate. But yes I have heard him rave on and on about Reddick and Shelden Williams. Even the Utah guy Rick Majerus has said stuff to the extent that Reddick will be an amazing pro player.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> Dickie V hating on duke, now thats a first. *I could swear he slobbers all over*..sorry thats inappropriate. But yes I have heard him rave on and on about Reddick and Shelden Williams. Even the Utah guy Rick Majerus has said stuff to the extent that Reddick will be an amazing pro player.



You are dangerously close to violating The Truth's Law.

I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone say Redick will be an all-star caliber player. Dickie V mostly says that he thinks he will have an impact and have a good career.


----------



## HB

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> You are dangerously close to violating The Truth's Law.
> 
> I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone say Redick will be an all-star caliber player. Dickie V mostly says that he thinks he will have an impact and have a good career.


I'll be the first to post one of those quotes or articles as soon as I come across them AGAIN. And am pretty sure we will be seeing a lot of them around June


----------



## The Krakken

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Hbwoy said:


> I'll be the first to post one of those quotes or articles as soon as I come across them AGAIN. And am pretty sure we will be seeing a lot of them around June


Actually, I've heard it myself from Dukie V.


----------



## Reign

*Re: Redick's NBA Career*

Yep a sport starter and 6th Man... agreed with KG he will be in the shootout for sure.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Krakken said:


> Actually, I've heard it myself from Dukie V.


What did you _actually_ hear.

And besides, I don't know why anyone would take anything that comes out of his mouth seriously.


----------



## Peter Pan with a Tan

*Re: Redick's NBA Career*

allstar


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> This post epitomizes the problem I have with haters regarding JJ Redick. You guys are the only ones raising the expectations of Redick so high, so that you can say, "see I told you so" when he doesn't reach them. Just because he is expected to be a top 10-15 pick that doesn't automatically mean he has a requirement to be a Kobe, D. Wade, LeBron James type of player. The draft EVERY year is filled with guys who are picked in the top 10-15 who become role players their entire careers, so why is Redick any different? Atleast with Redick he has mastered a skill.
> 
> 
> No one is saying Redick will come into the league as the best shooter, and if they did they probably are nothing more that Duke homers, so thier opinions should be taken as such. However, that doesn't change the fact that Redick is a world class shooter.
> 
> What does "creating his own shot" of the dribble have to do with anything? Redick is a spot up, run of screens shooter in the NBA, so having to "create his own shot" of the dribble is a pointless arguement. Actually if you understand basketball there is a lot that goes into spotting up and running of screens to get open. Both involve understanding proper spacing and an understanding of angles. Not to mention having a great deal of skill that is involved in the shooting motion, so he does create his own shot!. No one is saying he will be a Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant type of player in the league who creates his own shot off the dribble. So, again that argument is pointless!
> 
> JJ Redick has a skill and that skill is as a shooter. Players every year are drafted because of a skill, so what makes Redick so different? Redick haters are quick to point out defeciencies in his game such as ball handling or "creating his own shot" off of the dribble, but those arguments are pointless when understanding the role Redick is going to play in the NBA.
> 
> JJ Redick understands his role in the NBA, I just wish his haters would as well.
> 
> "I think I'll be a role player like 80 percent of the players in the league are. I don't expect to be a star." - JJ Redick


And this is what I hate about people when I say something negative about JJ Redick. I don't believe I've said anything that would make you believe I don't think he will be a good shooter, or that he will be a solid spot starter/6th man. That's what I voted for, that's what I think, he's a late lottery guy. How come pointing out what I see as his faults automatically says to people that I think he deserves a 2nd round pick and will be in Europe in two years.


----------



## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> And this is what I hate about people when I say something negative about JJ Redick. I don't believe I've said anything that would make you believe I don't think he will be a good shooter, or that he will be a solid spot starter/6th man. That's what I voted for, that's what I think, he's a late lottery guy. How come pointing out what I see as his faults automatically says to people that I think he deserves a 2nd round pick and will be in Europe in two years.


with duke fans its like, your either with us or your with the.............you know what i mean, i'm with you on redick. i think there is just too many physical limitations to be a superstar at the next level no matter how sound he is in his game, athletecism in the nba covers up for a multitude of sins. the only thing i think that gets him drafted higher than he probably should is the fact its a weak draft. with this being the first year highschoolers arent eligible you are probably eliminating guys who would go early like oden,durant and maybe a hawes. redick will probably go in the 5-8 range like a mike miller did in a weak draft. hope he does well like all these guys.


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> And this is what I hate about people when I say something negative about JJ Redick. I don't believe I've said anything that would make you believe I don't think he will be a good shooter, or that he will be a solid spot starter/6th man. That's what I voted for, that's what I think, he's a late lottery guy. How come pointing out what I see as his faults automatically says to people that I think he deserves a 2nd round pick and will be in Europe in two years.


because the flaws that you pointed out aren't valid flaws in his game.

You said he doesn't have an effortless shot.

I said so what?

You said he may not have good range because his shot isn't effortless.

I said he's been making shots from 25+ feet since his high school days. His range was stuff of legend when he was 17 years old!

You then reply "this is what I hate about people when I say something negative about JJ Redick."

So what is it you hate? That someone will call out your silly observation?


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rainman said:


> with duke fans its like, your either with us or your with the.............you know what i mean, i'm with you on redick. i think there is just too many physical limitations to be a superstar at the next level no matter how sound he is in his game, athletecism in the nba covers up for a multitude of sins. the only thing i think that gets him drafted higher than he probably should is the fact its a weak draft. with this being the first year highschoolers arent eligible you are probably eliminating guys who would go early like oden,durant and maybe a hawes. redick will probably go in the 5-8 range like a mike miller did in a weak draft. hope he does well like all these guys.



I'm with you as well that his lack of athleticism will prevent him from being a star in the NBA. But I'm not down with this nonsense about not having an effortless shot, which is suppossedly going to prevent him from becoming a great shooter.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> And this is what I hate about people when I say something negative about JJ Redick. I don't believe I've said anything that would make you believe I don't think he will be a good shooter, or that he will be a solid spot starter/6th man. That's what I voted for, that's what I think, he's a late lottery guy. How come pointing out what I see as his faults automatically says to people that I think he deserves a 2nd round pick and will be in Europe in two years.


The Truth pretty much said what I would say in response to this. My post wasn't an attack on you as much as it was an attack on the Redick haters as a whole (if you are in that posse than yes it was addressed to you). My point was to call out the flaws in your argument about what you perceived to be Redick's flaws going into the NBA. Your arguments had no relevance in the discussion about JJ Redick becuase he is not a "create your own shot off the dribble" player and never has been. That is equivelent to me saying LaMarcus Aldridge shouldn't be a top 5 pick because he can't shoot 3 pointers.


----------



## rainman

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



The Truth said:


> I'm with you as well that his lack of athleticism will prevent him from being a star in the NBA. But I'm not down with this nonsense about not having an effortless shot, which is suppossedly going to prevent him from becoming a great shooter.


you didnt hear that from me, he'll be outsized most nights at the two spot but he'll get it done, i think he has come a long way in his ability to create and use the defenders short comings to his advantage, i think he'll be a piece to the puzzle, i know there are teams like houston or orlando that would love to have him,at least they should.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



rainman said:


> with duke fans its like, your either with us or your with the.............you know what i mean, i'm with you on redick. *i think there is just too many physical limitations to be a superstar at the next level * no matter how sound he is in his game, athletecism in the nba covers up for a multitude of sins. the only thing i think that gets him drafted higher than he probably should is the fact its a weak draft. with this being the first year highschoolers arent eligible you are probably eliminating guys who would go early like oden,durant and maybe a hawes. redick will probably go in the 5-8 range like a mike miller did in a weak draft. hope he does well like all these guys.


If a am labeled a Duke fan because I call people out on their pointless argument, I guess I am a fan of a lot of teams. I will call your pointless arguement out as well. NO ONE IS SAYING REDICK IS GOING TO BE A SUPERSTAR IN THE NBA, NOT EVEN JJ REDICK HIMSELF. So, stop assuming this is what people such as myself and The Truth are saying. That arguement is pointless in this thread! The ironic part about your post is you said the same thing I (the accused Duke fan) said,



ralaw from post #256 said:


> *Him being mentioned as a top 5-10 pick has more to do with it being a relatively week draft in 06', but you can't blame Redick for that. *
> Would you rather Redick come out and say, "Guys please stop putting me in the top 5-10 of your mock drafts, because I really am not that good and I don't want to make my haters mad!" You can't blame Redick for what you think is being overhyped.


----------



## zagsfan20

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



ralaw said:


> If a am labeled a Duke fan because I call people out on their pointless argument, I guess I am a fan of a lot of teams. I will call your pointless arguement out as well. *NO ONE IS SAYING REDICK IS GOING TO BE A SUPERSTAR IN THE NBA, NOT EVEN JJ REDICK HIMSELF.* So, stop assuming this is what people such as myself and The Truth are saying. That arguement is pointless in this thread! The ironic part about your post is you said the same thing I (the accused Duke fan) said,


What college player does come out and say that they are going to be a superstar in the NBA....?

I don't understand your point there...


----------



## The Truth

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



zagsfan20 said:


> What college player does come out and say that they are going to be a superstar in the NBA....?
> 
> I don't understand your point there...


You're right, people don't usually actually say "I'm going to be a superstar."

But they don't usually say "I'm not going to be a superstar." I think Redick made a comment that he's realistic that he's not going to set the NBA on fire.


----------



## HB

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*

First of my many quotes on Reddick, Bill Walton just said Reddick and Morrison will have outstanding professional careers. People thought I was making up stuff when I made my earlier post.


----------



## Gilgamesh

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*

You mean the eccentric Bill Walton?



Hbwoy said:


> First of my many quotes on Reddick, Bill Walton just said Reddick and Morrison will have outstanding professional careers. People thought I was making up stuff when I made my earlier post.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



zagsfan20 said:


> What college player does come out and say that they are going to be a superstar in the NBA....?
> 
> I don't understand your point there...


Please, please, please, please reread my post(and notice the bolded text)! 

rainman says:


rainman said:


> i think there is just too many physical limitations to be a superstar at the next level


ralaw says in response:


ralaw said:


> *NO ONE IS SAYING REDICK IS GOING TO BE A SUPERSTAR IN THE NBA, NOT EVEN JJ REDICK HIMSELF.*


JJ Redick says:


JJ Redick said:


> "I think I'll be a role player like 80 percent of the players in the league are. I don't expect to be a star."


----------



## The Truth

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*



Hbwoy said:


> First of my many quotes on Reddick, Bill Walton just said Reddick and Morrison will have outstanding professional careers. People thought I was making up stuff when I made my earlier post.


I saw the Walton piece, and he said Redick will have a good career, but said he needed to be in the right situation and mentioned his athletic limitations.

He hardly said he was the second coming of Christ in the NBA.


----------



## ralaw

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*



The Truth said:


> I saw the Walton piece, and he said Redick will have a good career, but said he needed to be in the right situation and mentioned his athletic limitations.
> 
> He hardly said he was the second coming of Christ in the NBA.


Wow! The Truth that sounds remarkably similar to what we have been saying media outlets have been saying this entire thread!


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Nimreitz said:


> Hey, I love JJ Redick, but watching him tonight and going to a few NBA games and staying KINDA up on the Bucks this season has made me realize a few things. First of all, JJ Redick is a fine shooter, but Michael Redd is just so much better. JJ isn't automatically an A+ shooter in the NBA, he isn't on the level of Redd or McGrady. Secondly, watching him tonight showed me that all the talk about him not being able to create his own shot is dead on and not overblown at all. He can't create his own shot. He's a liability every time he puts the ball on the floor and if you just stick to him he can be stopped; not contained, stopped. This was as clear as it ever will be on his historic 3-pointer at the end of the game, his defender like an idiot went for the steal instead of staying with JJ. If he's glued to JJ, then Redick won't make that shot, or maybe not even take it.


Are you kidding me? This kid has a fantastic shooting %, and he's having a bad season and shooting like 92% from the free throw line...and like I said, bad season.

By the way, when Redd came out of college he was thought of as more of a defensive player. Nobody knew he could score like he can now. And honestly, how many rookies are on the level of McGrady? That's like saying Adam Morrison shouldn't be drafted in the first round because he's not as good as Larry Bird.


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

How is he not creating his own shot? He's taking slightly fewer 3's per game, but his scoring is way up.

He makes open shots. Usually great FT shooters can knock down shots, and htis guy takes it to the extreme. Defenders will make mistakes, and sometimes he'll make them without a mistake. If he faces flawless defense, well it might be a mismatch. But in the NBA, Bruce Bowen can lead the league in 3PP. If he's really covered, he'll probably pass it, or it's the Virginia game if he's barely covered (or another big game where he was probably covered more).


----------



## HB

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*



The Truth said:


> I saw the Walton piece, and he said Redick will have a good career, but said he needed to be in the right situation and mentioned his athletic limitations.
> 
> He hardly said he was the second coming of Christ in the NBA.


Then we must have heard different, yes he said in the right situation he could succeed but he clearly said both Morrison and Reddick will have 'outstanding NBA careers'. Matter of fact that was the first thing he said. There is clearly a difference between outstanding and good, dont you think so?


----------



## ralaw

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*



Hbwoy said:


> Then we must have heard different, yes he said in the right situation he could succeed but he clearly said both Morrison and Reddick will have 'outstanding NBA careers'. Matter of fact that was the first thing he said. There is clearly a difference between outstanding and good, dont you think so?


So your scources are Dickie V and Bill Walton? Who are you going to quote next Curious George the Curious Little Monkey?


----------



## HB

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*



ralaw said:


> So your scources are Dickie V and Bill Walton? Who are you going to quote next Curious George the Curious Little Monkey?


Lol like i said it is the first of many qoutes. Those two work for ESPN and ESPN is one of the most watched media outlets in the world, they certainly have done their fair share of convincing a few folks.


----------



## SlamJam

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*

see what happens when redick faces taller athletes? he cant do anything, him trying to dribble the ball against temple was a joke


----------



## ralaw

*Re: Merged: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick / JJ Redick as a pro poll*



SlamJam said:


> see what happens when redick faces taller athletes? he cant do anything, him trying to dribble the ball against temple was a joke


----------



## SolidGuy3

*J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

J.J. Redick is a 6'4" 190 pound SG. Jeff Hornacek was a 6'3" 190 pound SG. When I watch Redick play, he reminds me of Hornacek. Hornacek was a starting SG on the Jazz teams that reached the Finals twice.


----------



## sMaK

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

That's a pretty good comparison. I obviously never saw Hornacek in college, but I doubt he was as dynamic a scorer as Redick is at the college level. Hornacek was a great shooter though.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

I think he will be much better...and much more well known.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

Hornacek came into the league as a PG. That said, other aspects of Redick's game are definitely reminiscent of Hornacek, though he hasn't yet shown the offense-running capabilities that Horny showed in Phoenix early on.


----------



## TripleDouble

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

Hornacek was a better all around player (more like Hinrich).


----------



## DANNY

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

i think you gotta give credit to ESPN for bringing up the hornacek comparison


----------



## GNG

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*



SolidGuy3 said:


> J.J. Redick is a 6'4" 190 pound SG. Jeff Hornacek was a 6'3" 190 pound SG. When I watch Redick play, he reminds me of Hornacek. Hornacek was a starting SG on the Jazz teams that reached the Finals twice.


ESPN's draft machine's pretty nifty, huh?

You're supposed to give a link when you see a comparison on a webpage and then post it here.

Otherwise, it makes it look like you thought of it yourself, which I'm sure is the impression you wanted to give here.


----------



## Gilgamesh

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

Why does a white draft prospect always have to be compared to a former white NBA player?

Just a question...


----------



## Avalanche

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*



Gilgamesh said:


> Why does a white draft prospect always have to be compared to a former white NBA player?
> 
> Just a question...


 i noticed that aswell actually...


----------



## LionOfJudah

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*



Gilgamesh said:


> Why does a white draft prospect always have to be compared to a former white NBA player?
> 
> Just a question...


Well, name a non-white guy Redick is similar to then..


----------



## Gilgamesh

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

A more aggressive and taller Salim Stoudamire. A "tweener" prospect who doesn't have the ballhandling and court vision to be a PG and lacks the height and athleticism to compete with the top SGs of today.

Another comparison I favour more than Hornacek would be Shawn Respert.

Redick simply doesn't have the ballhandling and court vision to be compared to Hornacek. Comparing him to Hornacek is like giving him credit for skills he doesn't have or hasn't developed yet.

That is why I hate the Morrison and Bird comparisons. Their tenacity in the offensive end might be similar but Morrison can't rebound nor pass as well as Bird. His court vision is not even close.

I'm not saying Hornacek is a bad comparison. It's more of a potential than realistic comparison. At least it's not as silly as the Morrison and Bird comparisons because I don't see Morrison EVER reaching that potential. 



stevemc said:


> Well, name a non-white guy Redick is similar to then..


----------



## TM

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*



Gilgamesh said:


> with the top SGs of today.


will he be playing the top SG's every night?


----------



## Gilgamesh

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

Will Redick be able to get as many shots off now against more athletic and taller guards?

Does Redick have the qualities to be a starting SG in the NBA? 

He might not be competing aginst the Kobes every night but how will he fare against the Mo Petes?

Redick is a great college player but I am skeptical that he will be anything more than just a role player in the NBA. That's just my opinion.

Look at what happened to Joseph Forte and Respert once they reached the NBA?



TM said:


> will he be playing the top SG's every night?


----------



## oblivi

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

J.J. doesnt have the ball handling to be a hornacek but he has the jumpshot to be a solid NBA player. one thing that could get J.J. over in the pros is his attitude and willingness to compete every night which A LOT of white and black college players lose once they get into the pros


----------



## Gilgamesh

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

This is what makes me admire Redick *a lot*. It's his greatest asset next to his shooting ability which is uncanny.

Although I don't think either Redick or Morrison will be superstars in the NBA doesn't mean I don't root for them to be successful especially with Morrison's medical condition. 



oblivi said:


> his attitude and willingness to compete every night


----------



## ralaw

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*



Gilgamesh said:


> Why does a white draft prospect always have to be compared to a former white NBA player?
> 
> Just a question...


In my opinion there is nothing wrong with it. Generally white NBA players have similar traits, thus they get compared. Also, it is natural for people to draw similarities with someone who actually looks like the person they are comparing them to. We all do it.

JJ Redick doesn't expect to come into the league and take it by storm. He is on record as saying, he expects to be a role player like 80% of NBA players. Redick has a place in the NBA running of screens, and spotting up for three pointers, which is what he does in college, so to grade him as a pg with pg skills really is a moot point.


----------



## NOBLE

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

Maybe Redick is a better version of Voshon Lenard....?


----------



## Gilgamesh

*Re: J.J. Redick = Jeff Hornacek*

I totally get what you're saying.

But sometimes people often go out of their way to find a white player to compare to a white prospect when there are other players who might not be white who have more similar games.

That process is just getting tiring IMO.



ralaw said:


> In my opinion there is nothing wrong with it. Generally white NBA players have similar traits, thus they get compared. Also, it is natural for people to draw similarities with someone who actually looks like the person they are comparing them to. We all do it.


This is why I don't like the Hornacek comparison. 



ralaw said:


> so to grade him as a pg with pg skills really is a moot point.


----------



## UVM Hoop Cat

I think last night was a good example that when Redick isn't hitting jumpers, he isn't a very effective player on the court. Pretty one-dimensional.

But those off-shooting nights are extremely rare....


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## iverson101

UVM Hoop Cat said:


> I think last night was a good example that when Redick isn't hitting jumpers, he isn't a very effective player on the court. Pretty one-dimensional.
> 
> But those off-shooting nights are extremely rare....


4 in a row...


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## HB

I said it in a couple of posts earlier that JJ seemingly disappears against long athletic wing guys that have the lenght and speed to keep up with him. Forget the exhaustion issues or the emotional wear down those are all excuses right now the media loves JJ and rarely do they give defenses credit for shutting him down, when he gets into the pro leagues he will be facing this kind of defenses regularly, he better start finding ways to overcome this.


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## Darknight1996

Redick will be a career backup in the NBA. He would probably be a 8th or 9th player on the bench because he is not a great defender, passer,(2 assists a game) or rebounder(2 rebounds a game). Redick also struggles with athletic defenders with which the NBA is full of. He can though contribute off the bench for a team with a big man to pass out to him for threes. I can see him averaging 2-5 points a game in the NBA and helping a team out.


----------



## LOYALTY

Reddick might well be another Jeff Hornaceck.. Which means he can run off of picks and shoot from almost anywhere on the floor. And he has good enough b-ball knowledge to do the little things that help a team win. He will not be a superstar, but if he teams up with the right guys, he can have some good seasons and maybe make an all-star game or two as a bench player (best case scenario). The Voshon Lenard comparison is probably more accurate.

Adam Morrison reminds me of Tom Chambers. Which means he is everything I listed above except he's taller and a little more athletic.

All in all, these will be two solid NBA players as long as thy don't have to carry the burden of being the leader on their teams.


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## Gilgamesh

Repped.



Hbwoy said:


> I said it in a couple of posts earlier that JJ seemingly disappears against long athletic wing guys that have the lenght and speed to keep up with him.


----------



## Dez24

I agree with the poster who said Redick will be a career back up. Maybe in three to four years he could be a starter, too early to tell though. But I think he could average more than 5 points a game if he is on the right team. I would put him at 10 minimum.


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## shookem

I find it funny how everyone doubts JJ and Morrison's ability to lead an NBA team. It seems like that's all they can do in college, lead. They can shoot if they have too, they can...well they can shoot if they have too....they can lead by shooting.


I actually think Morrison is going to be a big leader in the NBA.


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## ralaw

JJ Redick will be a good pro with the ability to get his shot off by running of screens or spotting up for an open shot on most defenders. I think if a team drafts him with a top 5 pick they will surely regret the pick, but I don't see anything wrong with drafting him with a late lottery or 1st round pick. Redick will not be a superstar or a star level player; however, he will be a good role player for a team capable to getting 20pts on any given night (like most shooters in the league).


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## Avalanche

redick has too much natural talent to not at least be a half way decent role player.
if he gets hold of a good coach and a team used to running set plays n screens he could develop into a star.


----------



## Coatesvillain

JJ Redick = Arvydas Macijauskas


----------



## Benis007

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*

short Kyle Korver


----------



## Duck

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Benis007 said:


> short Kyle Korver


J.J Redick is going to be the next Jameer Nelson.

Jameer was great in college, drafted WAY LOWER than what he should have been, and now is suceeding in the NBA despite the murmers that he couldn't play in the NBA. I'm pretty sure that the Magic will take JJ if he's still on the board when its their time to pick, and I'd be one happy camper if they did.


----------



## TM

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



Duck34234 said:


> J.J Redick is going to be the next Jameer Nelson.


First time I've heard that comparison :biggrin:


----------



## Duck

*Re: JJ Redick is not a top 5 pick*



TM said:


> First time I've heard that comparison :biggrin:


lol

Their games are certainly different, but I think that the way J.J. will come into the NBA with a chip on his shoulder will sort of mirror what Jameer has done for the Magic. I know that I get to watch Jameer more than most people do, but he's been key for us this season. We wouldnt have half as many wins as we do know if he wasn't on our roster (although thats not really saying much).


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## UVM Hoop Cat

Here's what some NBA scouts think of Morrison, as compared to Redick. Everyone here seems to have an accurate assessment about Redick, but some posters are way off about Morrison.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;...cB?slug=dw-morrison032106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


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## Duck

UVM Hoop Cat said:


> Here's what some NBA scouts think of Morrison, as compared to Redick. Everyone here seems to have an accurate assessment about Redick, but some posters are way off about Morrison.
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;...cB?slug=dw-morrison032106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


I'll give you two names that'll show *you just how much I think of the opinions of GMs and Scouts* Just last year ESPN analysts and Dick Vitale were comparing two particular college basketball players that played similar games. If I remember correctly though, the debate wasn't nearly this close, and it appeared as though one was going to be "the next John Stockton" while the other was just going to be a "servicable point guard."

Deron Williams and Chris Paul.

And don't use the writer's pitiful excuse for a backup argument.

If you put Deron on the Hornets, he'd still be the same player he is on the Jazz.

Let the kids play their first few games as pros, and then we can comeback and debate between the two some more. 

Personally, I think that they'll both average 9-11 ppg in their first years and become decent role players on solid teams.


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## sov82

See tonite for why Redick will not be more than a spot up shooter at the next level.


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## LionOfJudah

Looks like athletic defenders can give Redick hell... thank god no one is athletic in the NBA huh Dukies?


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## rainman

stevemc said:


> Looks like athletic defenders can give Redick hell... thank god no one is athletic in the NBA huh Dukies?


i'm not going to pile on because of a bad game but it seemed he tried to do too much, he should have kept moving without the ball and he would have got open looks, he seemed to want to prove he could take it to the rack and against that team that wasnt too wise. had to think it hurt his stock, we'll see how much.


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## sov82

rainman said:



> i'm not going to pile on because of a bad game but it seemed he tried to do too much, he should have kept moving without the ball and he would have got open looks, he seemed to want to prove he could take it to the rack and against that team that wasnt too wise. had to think it hurt his stock, we'll see how much.


its not piling on, its stating the facts. If he can't do what you just described at the next level, he is nothing more than a spot up shooter. Redick had a nice college career. He's probably the player of the year this year. He isn't an NBA lottery pick. He is a late first round draft pick for a contending team that needs someone to stretch the defense for 20 minutes a game.


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## LionOfJudah

rainman said:


> i'm not going to pile on because of a bad game but it seemed he tried to do too much, he should have kept moving without the ball and he would have got open looks, he seemed to want to prove he could take it to the rack and against that team that wasnt too wise. had to think it hurt his stock, we'll see how much.


 Either way its a look into what could happen in the NBA. I'm sure Redick won't face as much pressure as he did from double teams and such like he did against LSU but with large athletic defenders he looked average at best. It'll be rare that JJ is guarded by a guy who's not going to be all over him like Tasmin Mitchell, Garrett Temple, and company were tonight.


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## TM

Redick stinks... he'll never play in the NBA


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## LionOfJudah

TM said:


> Redick stinks... he'll never play in the NBA


 Geez Mr. Sarcasm don't be too down on your boy... He'll play, but it won't be nothing to brag about.


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## Diable

Something that noone seems to recognize is that the way Redick was guarded tonight Temple fouls out in five minutes in the NBA.Everyone goes on and on about how athletic defenders cause him trouble,but in fact he was being mugged the entire game and in the NBA they don't allow you to play defense the way the refs have allowed people to defend Redick this year.When you hold and grab you get a foul.


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## LionOfJudah

Diable said:


> Something that noone seems to recognize is that the way Redick was guarded tonight Temple fouls out in five minutes in the NBA.Everyone goes on and on about how athletic defenders cause him trouble,but in fact he was being mugged the entire game and in the NBA they don't allow you to play defense the way the refs have allowed people to defend Redick this year.When you hold and grab you get a foul.


 They don't let Dukies hack like they did against LSU in the NBA either so your statement can go either way.


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## iverson101

Diable said:


> Something that noone seems to recognize is that the way Redick was guarded tonight Temple fouls out in five minutes in the NBA.Everyone goes on and on about how athletic defenders cause him trouble,but in fact he was being mugged the entire game and in the NBA they don't allow you to play defense the way the refs have allowed people to defend Redick this year.When you hold and grab you get a foul.


This has to be a parody post. I mean it can't be serious. I just don't believe it. I have too much respect for mankind to believe someone would seriously post something like this.


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## iverson101

Another problem nobody mentioned is how late the NBA season goes on. JJ I think will be a good role player from November to January. We know how bad he looks in March. Who knows what might happen in April and May!?!?


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## ralaw

The arguement that Redick can't score against athletic defenders is still useless considering every game IN COLLEGE Redick plays in he is the focus of the defense thus the best perimeter defender guards him man-to-man (a box and one) the entire game, not to mention the emotions of guarding Redick kicks in leading the defender to play their heart out. This will not happen in the NBA, he won't be the focus of the entire defense in the NBA like he is in college.


----------



## johnston797

ralaw said:


> The arguement that Redick can't score against athletic defenders is still useless considering every game IN COLLEGE Redick plays in he is the focus of the defense thus the best perimeter defender guards him man-to-man (a box and one) the entire game, not to mention the emotions of guarding Redick kicks in leading the defender to play their heart out. This will not happen in the NBA, he won't be the focus of the entire defense in the NBA like he is in college.


The level of player is so much higher in the NBA that college. He is going to see a better athlete every night than the best perimeter defender he faced. I had been saying this for a while, but Reddick was completely exposed. Unless he catches and shoots, he has very limited game. Plus, he is going to be a negative on D. Reddick = NBA Role Player if he works his butt off. 

Complete Editorial\Speculation: I think Reddick will miss the glory days and be out of the NBA in 5 years. He needed Coack K in his ear to keep his head in the game yesterday. About 2/3 of the way through, it looked llike he wanted to take his ball and go home.


----------



## Gilgamesh

When Redick's shot is not falling he becomes an average _college_ player. 

Like I said in a number of posts, as much as I like Redick he is first and foremost a shooter and a streaky one at that. He doesn't really do anything else well on the court right now. He _could_ develop PG skills like Hornacek but he clearly doesn't have those skills now, they're not even close.

Morrison is a much better draft prospect _and_ scorer than Redick although I still believe Redick deserves NPOY and voters tend to favour seniors and Redick set records all over the place this year.


----------



## ralaw

johnston797 said:


> The level of player is so much higher in the NBA that college. He is going to see a better athlete every night than the best perimeter defender he faced. I had been saying this for a while, but Reddick was completely exposed. Unless he catches and shoots, he has very limited game. Plus, he is going to be a negative on D. Reddick = NBA Role Player if he works his butt off.
> 
> Complete Editorial\Speculation: I think Reddick will miss the glory days and be out of the NBA in 5 years. He needed Coack K in his ear to keep his head in the game yesterday. About 2/3 of the way through, it looked llike he wanted to take his ball and go home.


What I think the problem with this discussion is the people who are attempting to say Redick will be out of the league in a few years are actually the one's who have their expectations too high (thus a harder fall) while the people who believe he will carve out a decent career as a spot-up, running of screens type of shooter project him to be nothing more than a role player. Redick will not be out of the league in 5 years....Trust me! Redick is basically a shooter (who just happens to own the all-time scoring record in the ACC), so to say he will be out of the league in less than 5 years is asinine considering there are many, many players in throughout history of the NBA who made decent careers out of being a shooter. 

Redick was not exposed, again, he is a shooter, no one is saying he will be a Allen Iverson type in the league. The notion that he was exposed is nothing more than something made up by those people who want to believe he will be a bust in the NBA. JJ Redick will be a role player in the NBA and he understands this, so to use that as part of your arguement is pointless. 

Here is something I have been posting this entire thread:

_I think I'll be a role player like 80 percent of the players in the league are. I don't expect to be a star." _ 
- JJ Redick

JJ Redick is worth a top 15 to late first round pick and any pick before that would be a reach. Any team drafting him fully understands he will not be a superstar go-to type player.

Redick is one of the most head strong players you or anyone else will ever see, so to imply that he isn't is foolish considering all of the trash talking from fans and opposing players, to being ridiculed for everthing from his basketball game to his up bringing, to questions of his sexuality, to being a white boy who could ball. Redick dealt with a lot throughout his career and I wouldn't be surpised if in a little way he is happy his name won't be in lights anymore. It is truly sad the way people talk about a kid who is a model for all of college basketball., and after it is all said and done he will be missed.


----------



## Gilgamesh

Redick has the talent and determination to have a sustaining NBA career. Whether or not he will we will see. Hopefully he does.

In terms of potential IMO:

At his lowest I see a another Shawn Respert.

At his highest I see a Hersey Hawkins type player.


----------



## HB

LOL this thread still continues. Like I said he seemingly disappears against athletic guys. If I were a team thats willing to draft him this should be a concern because he will be facing much better guys night in and night out.


----------



## johnston797

ralaw said:


> Trust me! Redick is basically a shooter (who just happens to own the all-time scoring record in the ACC), so to say he will be out of the league in less than 5 years is asinine considering there are many, many players in throughout history of the NBA who made decent careers out of being a shooter.


Steve Alford was just as great a college basketball player and he was out of the league in 4 years. 

Redick may bank a couple million and decide he doesn't want to bust his *** to be an 8th\9th man. And he will go be a coach or just live the good life. 

Or he could play 12 years like Steve Kerr. 

It's really up to him. But I wouldn't be shocked if he decided it wasn't worth it.



ralaw said:


> JJ Redick is worth a top 15 to late first round pick and any pick before that would be a reach. Any team drafting him fully understands he will not be a superstar go-to type player.


I don't disagree with this. But this is far from a concensus. Now, it's not a great draft but he is still #11 on both nbadraft.net and draftexpress. And I know he was top 5 on at least one of them in the last couple of weeks. He was certainly exposed as not being a top 5 consideration.


----------



## ralaw

johnston797 said:


> Steve Alford was just as great a college basketball player and he was out of the league in 4 years.
> 
> Redick may bank a couple million and decide he doesn't want to bust his *** to be an 8th\9th man. And he will go be a coach or just live the good life.
> 
> Or he could play 12 years like Steve Kerr.
> 
> It's really up to him. But I wouldn't be shocked if he decided it wasn't worth it.


I can agree with that.


----------



## B-Scott

Reddick is a perfect fit for the LA LAKERS. I think he would be that John paxon type player.

If Reddick goes to a team with a superstar who draws double and triple teams,he will make a huge impact. If he goes to a team that does not have a superstar,where he has to create al of his shots,then he will struggle. Lamar odom and Kobe both draw double teams. Lamar is BALLIN lately,Kobe draws a lot of attention.

Those same wide open looks that Sasha and Smush parker get. Imagine that being Reddick. He wouldnt need to create his own shot. The triangle offense,and LO and Kobe will create the shots for him just like John paxon and steve kerr


----------



## KB21

Personaly, I think Mike Gansey has a chance to be better as a pro than Redick. I think Gansey is better with the ball in his hand and is a little quicker than Redick.

I just see Redick as a guy that has to utilize screens and shot fakes to get his shot off, and in the NBA, I'm not so sure that's going to work as well. He's going to have to get better with the ball in his hands.


----------



## sov82

Diable said:


> Something that noone seems to recognize is that the way Redick was guarded tonight Temple fouls out in five minutes in the NBA.Everyone goes on and on about how athletic defenders cause him trouble,but in fact he was being mugged the entire game and in the NBA they don't allow you to play defense the way the refs have allowed people to defend Redick this year.When you hold and grab you get a foul.


Redick has gotten stronger...but he still isn't tall enough or strong enough to be a shooting guard in the NBA.

Redick wasn't getting mugged. He was being played phyiscally. Could ticky tack fouls been called? Sure. But on every block Williams gets, he has body contact. Do you want a foul called on every one of those as well? On every pass down low, players get bumped. The fact of the matter is, unless you are an NBA Superstar, you won't get those calls. On top of that, how many times did Redick finish when he got played phyiscally? None. Isn't that a trait on an NBA star as well? Finishing after getting hit???


----------



## rainman

B-Scott said:


> Reddick is a perfect fit for the LA LAKERS. I think he would be that John paxon type player.
> 
> If Reddick goes to a team with a superstar who draws double and triple teams,he will make a huge impact. If he goes to a team that does not have a superstar,where he has to create al of his shots,then he will struggle. Lamar odom and Kobe both draw double teams. Lamar is BALLIN lately,Kobe draws a lot of attention.
> 
> Those same wide open looks that Sasha and Smush parker get. Imagine that being Reddick. He wouldnt need to create his own shot. The triangle offense,and LO and Kobe will create the shots for him just like John paxon and steve kerr


that sounds good but do you move kobe to the 3 and have odom play the 4 because i dont see redick bringing the ball up the floor. in the bulls system you had several guys that could bring the ball up like scottie,kucoc and even michael. i'm not sure you have that capability there in lakerland.


----------



## HB

Did anyone read Charlie Rosen's analysis on both Redick and Morrison, he totally picks their games apart. I dont even like the man that much, but he was on point in that article. He even goes as far as to say Redick might not even be able to survive in the NBA. Here's a link for those curious enough to read what he said

Redick, Morrison and the NBA


----------



## The Truth

Everybody, PILE ON!





I love it. Everyone seems to forget this was the guy that averaged 27 points this season in a major conference.


----------



## rainman

Hbwoy said:


> Did anyone read Charlie Rosen's analysis on both Redick and Morrison, he totally picks their games apart. I dont even like the man that much, but he was on point in that article. He even goes as far as to say Redick might not even be able to survive in the NBA. Here's a link for those curious enough to read what he said
> 
> Redick, Morrison and the NBA


rosen is an idiot, its not a question whether redick can play at the next level just how good he'll be. ideally for him he has a yao ming or a dwight howard/darko milic to cover his rear at the defensive end. redick will do fine, probably a late lottery pick but he's going to be pretty good.


----------



## sov82

rainman said:


> rosen is an idiot, its not a question whether redick can play at the next level just how good he'll be. ideally for him he has a yao ming or a dwight howard/darko milic to cover his rear at the defensive end. redick will do fine, probably a late lottery pick but he's going to be pretty good.


Drafting pretty good players in the lottery puts you back in the lottery the next year. Redick would actually be better off going to a contending team, with as you said, an established big man and a PG w/ size that could defend SGs in the NBA. He would have a better shot at a LT NBA career.


----------



## Cameron Crazy

*Redick And Morrison*

What NBA team do you think they will go to? :biggrin:


----------



## hoops

sov82 said:


> how many times did Redick finish when he got played phyiscally? None. Isn't that a trait on an NBA star as well? Finishing after getting hit???


redick traditional 3pt play duke-georgetown http://rapidshare.de/files/17845775/redick_traditional_3pt_play_duke-georgetown.avi.html
redick steal layup & 1 duke-georgetown 
http://rapidshare.de/files/17847906/jj_redick_steal_layup_and_1_duke-georgetown.avi.html
redick 3pt play wake forest @ duke
http://rapidshare.de/files/17874758..._span_of_17_secs_wake_forest_at_duke.avi.html


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## GatorFan1984

redick traditional 3pt play duke-georgetown http://rapidshare.de/files/17845775...getown.avi.html
redick steal layup & 1 duke-georgetown 
http://rapidshare.de/files/17847906...getown.avi.html
redick 3pt play wake forest @ duke
http://rapidshare.de/files/17874758...t_duke.avi.html

That was a few times but Redick did not do that many timess during the year.Most of the time he pulled up for a mid range jump shot


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## Zalgirinis

J.J. Redick slightly hurts his draft stock with the non-competitive workout. You can read about it in here http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1300


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