# Report: Pero & Thabo arrested



## ATLien

Indiana Pacers forward Chris Copeland was stabbed in the abdomen and his wife was slashed outside a New York nightclub early Wednesday, police sources told the New York Daily News.

Atlanta Hawks players Thabo Sefolosha and Pero Antic also were at the scene and arrested and charged after refusing to move when police tried to establish a crime scene, sources told the Daily News. The Hawks play the Brooklyn Nets on Wednesday.

According to the New York Post, both Antic and Sefolosha have been charged with multiple violations. Both players were reportedly charged with "obstructing governmental administration" and "disorderly conduct", with Antic also being charged with "menacing" and Sefolosha with "disorderly conduct".

http://nypost.com/2015/04/08/ex-knick-wife-stabbed-at-nyc-club/


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## Marcus13

Prayers up for Chris and his wife.

I'll wait until more details come out before I bash the police about arresting Thabo and Pero.


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## RollWithEm

If Pero Antic got arrested every time someone thought he was "menacing", he would be in jail for life.


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## ATLien

In the video, Thabo appeared to have his ankle wrapped and limping noticeably. Bad news.


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## BlakeJesus

I don't really understand what happened here.


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## ATLien

Police report here: http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/basketball/police-report-details-in-arrest-of-hawks-players/nkp6y/


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/585872363440349184


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## R-Star

I'm assuming since it was 4am, Antic and Thabo were drunk as shit and making some pretty bad decisions when the cops came to do their job.


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## ATLien

Fuck.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/586259134280036354


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## ATLien

Video of NYPD breaking Thabo's leg: http://www.tmz.com/2015/04/09/thabo-sefolosha-video-of-combative-arrest-headlocked-and-taken-down/


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## Dornado

Thabo will always have a place in my basketball heart... this is a grave injustice.


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## Dornado

I always assumed Thabo had diplomatic immunity... because, you know, he's Thabo Sefolosha.


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## seifer0406

For a bunch of fringe role players(Thabo to a lesser extent) you would think they would be more professional. You shouldn't be out 4 in the morning when theres a morning shootaround and a game later that day.


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## R-Star

You know what isn't threatening? People yelling obsecenities in the biggest pansy language on the planet.

"Vou le vou boufard! Saur no le ka bi bi!" Shut up french people. No one cares.



And sorry about your luck Thabo, but maybe don't refuse to let the cops do their job because you're drunk as **** at 4am on day 2 of a back to back. Idiot.


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## ATLien

Yeah, they shouldn't have been out clubbing that late, but the NYPD shouldn't have broke Thabo's leg (and made him perp walk on it!). 

The signing looked bad over the summer, but Thabo has actually had a nice impact on the team and the team got worse after his calf injury. Easily the team's best rebounder (13.1 rebound rate) and defender (37.4 opposing FG%) on the perimeter. Considering rebounding is probably what will do this team in, ATL will definitely miss him if the Hawks make it to the conference finals.


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## BlakeJesus

It didn't really seem like he was fighting them, was it necessary for three guys to choke him to the ground and break his leg? Answer is no. They will get those charges dropped and Thabo should sue.


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## ATLien

NBPA investigating police tactics in Thabo Sefolosha's arrest

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...-tactics-thabo-sefolosha-arrest-broken-fibula

"The players' union is concerned about the circumstances of Thabo Sefolosha and Pero Antic's arrest and is doing its own investigation of the situation," NBPA spokeswoman Tara Greco said. "The union was fully engaged in supporting all three players in court and in the precinct this week, and will continue to stay engaged as each situation evolves."

The police are facing new questions about their tactics during the incident, as Sefolosha suffered a season-ending broken fibula, which went untreated overnight and into Wednesday as Sefolosha languished in custody.

Privately, sources say, Hawks officials also have begun to raise questions about the specific circumstances that led to Sefolosha being held by police for several hours with a broken fibula.


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## R-Star

BlakeJesus said:


> It didn't really seem like he was fighting them, was it necessary for three guys to choke him to the ground and break his leg? Answer is no. They will get those charges dropped and Thabo should sue.


What? The guy is a giant compared to them. And you're judging by a quick TMZ video where they're already in a fight with him? You have absolutely no idea what lead up to that, but typical young 20's America yelling "**** the police!" anytime there's something going on with the cops and someone else.


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## seifer0406

BlakeJesus said:


> It didn't really seem like he was fighting them, was it necessary for three guys to choke him to the ground and break his leg? Answer is no. They will get those charges dropped and Thabo should sue.


I don't think the police meant to break his leg. You should demonstrate to us how to gently wrestle a drunk, 6-7, 230 lb athlete down to the ground when he's resisting. Chances are Thabo would break your leg by accident if you don't go in with force.

The funny thing here is the Hawks players found the need to block people from taking pictures of Chris Copeland. It's almost as if people actually know who Chris Copeland is.


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## 29380

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/586714567436177408


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## ATLien

The NBA is going to sue the fuck out of them


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## PD

Why did them involve with Law Enforcement business at 4apm in the morning? Why didn't they just stand on the side and become witnesses?


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## BlakeJesus

PD said:


> Why did them involve with Law Enforcement business at 4apm in the morning? Why didn't they just stand on the side and become witnesses?


4apm?


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## ATLien

PD said:


> Why didn't they just stand on the side and become witnesses?


To be fair, we do not know that wasn't the case. After all, the witnesses in the video can be heard saying they didn't even do anything.


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> To be fair, we do not know that wasn't the case. After all, the witnesses in the video can be heard saying they didn't even do anything.


Yep, agreed 100%. The police came, Thabo and Pero got out of their way and minded their own business, and that's when the cops sneak attacked them because they hate basketball!


Pull your head out of your ass please. I understand they're your players, but don't act like a god damn idiot.


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## ATLien

R-Star said:


> Yep, agreed 100%. The police came, Thabo and Pero got out of their way and minded their own business, and that's when the cops sneak attacked them because they hate basketball!
> 
> 
> Pull your head out of your ass please. I understand they're your players, but don't act like a god damn idiot.


Well from a certain angle, it could look like Thabo was resisting arrest to one officer's POV when in actuality the video shows two officers pulling Thabo in two different directions trying to tear his arms off his body. Easy mistake.


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> Well from a certain angle, it could look like Thabo was resisting arrest to one officer's POV when in actuality the video shows two officers pulling Thabo in two different directions trying to tear his arms off his body. Easy mistake.


No, not really. No.

If you want to post with me, don't be an idiot.


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## ATLien

R-Star said:


> No, not really. No.
> 
> If you want to post with me, don't be an idiot.


Your posts always make more sense to me when I'm drunk. Gimme a minute


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> Your posts always make more sense to me when I'm drunk. Gimme a minute


It was fairly straight forward.


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## BlakeJesus

If we do not know what happened exactly (and as you say R-Star, "you're judging by a quick TMZ video where they're already in a fight with him?"), than it is equally possible that it is the cops reacting improperly to a chaotic situation just like it is possible that the guys were drunk and unnecessarily involving themselves in the situation.

You may want to hold off on the name calling until you actually know if you are in the right or not. If it turns out the cops were grossly overzealous, there will only be one idiot in this thread.

At they very least you should agree that it was wrong to leave him (or anybody for that matter) locked up, untreated for several hours (essentially over night) with a BROKEN LEG. That is something we do know, and the team has already stated they will be looking into this specifically.


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## R-Star

BlakeJesus said:


> If we do not know what happened exactly (and as you say R-Star, "you're judging by a quick TMZ video where they're already in a fight with him?"), than it is equally possible that it is the cops reacting improperly to a chaotic situation just like it is possible that the guys were drunk and unnecessarily involving themselves in the situation.
> 
> You may want to hold off on the name calling until you actually know if you are in the right or not. If it turns out the cops were grossly overzealous, there will only be one idiot in this thread.
> 
> At they very least you should agree that it was wrong to leave him (or anybody for that matter) locked up, untreated for several hours (essentially over night) with a BROKEN LEG. That is something we do know, and the team has already stated they will be looking into this specifically.


I like how you pretend its a 50/50 scenario between Thabo being a drunk idiot, or the cops clubbing his leg and breaking it just because they're terrible people who love to attack the innocent.

You people are ridiculous. 


No Blake, what will happen is it will go on for months with Michelle Roberts trying to blame the police, and when nothing surfaces she'll refuse to admit the players were wrong. That's all that will come of this.


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## ATLien

I can't stay mad at @R-Star as long as the Pacers keep winning games. Go get us our lottery pick.


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> I can't stay mad at @R-Star as long as the Pacers keep winning games. Go get us our lottery pick.


Your players keep going out to clubs until 4am on day 2 of a back to back and you'll have lottery picks for years to come, don't worry.


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## Jamel Irief

This would be so scintillating if I was a bored housewife.


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## ATLien

We're 40 games over .500, I'm pretty sure we could only play our worst five players and still not be a lottery team in the East


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> We're 40 games over .500, I'm pretty sure we could only play our worst five players and still not be a lottery team in the East


Kind of talking big after having one decent year, don't you think?


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> This would be so scintillating if I was a bored housewife.


Thabo had his leg broken and is out for the year, and Chis Copeland was stabbed.


What is the term I'm looking for here? Oh yea, it's shut the **** up Jamel. Your typical "What happens off the court... blah blah...TMZ....housewife.... blah" nonsense doesn't really come into play when two players are out for the season, one of whom is a decent sized cog in a contending team.


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## ATLien

R-Star said:


> Kind of talking big after having one decent year, don't you think?


Hawks haven't been in the lottery in over eight years, not exactly going out on a limb here. East is awful


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> Hawks haven't been in the lottery in over eight years, not exactly going out on a limb here. East is awful


Teams in the East have such low records because they're playing against the other amazing teams in the East.


The eastern conference today is the greatest conference of all time. The West is a joke.


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> Thabo had his leg broken and is out for the year, and Chis Copeland was stabbed.
> 
> 
> What is the term I'm looking for here? Oh yea, it's shut the **** up Jamel. Your typical "What happens off the court... blah blah...TMZ....housewife.... blah" nonsense doesn't really come into play when two players are out for the season, one of whom is a decent sized cog in a contending team.


What did Kim kardashian wear to the beach?


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> What did Kim kardashian wear to the beach?


Birkenstocks.


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## PD

ATLien said:


> Well from a certain angle, it could look like Thabo was resisting arrest to one officer's POV when in actuality the video shows two officers pulling Thabo in two different directions trying to tear his arms off his body. Easy mistake.


Without a doubt, we have a few bad cops out there. However, out of one bad cop, we have hundreds who put on that uniform daily risking their life for a small pay to protect the innocent citizens and whose in need. These cops often run into situations unplanned and outmanned. The people that they deal with may have weapons, gang-associated, etc. They have to be special cautious. As a citizen, if you see a police operation, you can just step on the side and become a good witness. The last thing or worst thing that you can do is open your mouth and try to assist either party. RESPECT the BADGE People.


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## ATLien

lol


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## JT

PD said:


> Without a doubt, we have a few bad cops out there. However, out of one bad cop, we have hundreds who put on that uniform *daily risking their life for a small pay to protect the innocent citizens and whose in need*. These cops often run into situations unplanned and outmanned. The people that they deal with may have weapons, gang-associated, etc. They have to be special cautious. As a citizen, if you see a police operation, you can just step on the side and become a good witness. The last thing or worst thing that you can do is open your mouth and try to assist either party. RESPECT the BADGE People.


they may risk their lives, but its surely not for peanuts. police have very good salaries, especially those with a certain # of years on the force. the people who are getting small pay are our enlisted soldiers.


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## E.H. Munro

PD said:


> Without a doubt, we have a few bad cops out there.


You have more than a few. The fact that there's a code of silence tells you that most cops are bad cops because they condone the worst behaviour of their fellow pigs.


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## PD

JT said:


> they may risk their lives, but its surely not for peanuts. police have very good salaries, especially those with a certain # of years on the force. the people who are getting small pay are our enlisted soldiers.





E.H. Munro said:


> You have more than a few. The fact that there's a code of silence tells you that most cops are bad cops because they condone the worst behaviour of their fellow pigs.


By no mean, I am downplaying the sacrifices that our soldiers make for this country. I totally agree with you as far as the pay goes for our soldiers. 

However, it is disappointing not to give credits to those good cops who gave their lives and career to make the streets safer for us. As far as pay, are you willing to knock on the door or go into the house of drug lords who may have bigger guns and more ammo and do not want to follow the same rules that you do? These people can shoot at you at anytime? Are you willing to interview a drug addict who potentially may have a needle that can stick you at any time? Everyday you drive to work, there is a chance you don't go home? In certain assignments, you are not allowed to reveal yourself...if the people that you encounter with know your true identity will kill you or your family? What is the price for this? We all encounter bad experiences with cops most likely when we don't obey the laws (speeding, etc). However, without these individuals to make sure people follow the laws, how bad our streets are? Have you lived in the 3rd world countries where the laws are not obeyed? 

E.H. Munro, I am not even sure how to respond to this, because it is the most closed-minded and idiotic opinion i have read. It is difficult to pay that $300 fine, getting arrested for DUI, or other crimes. Our opinion can be affected by these factors. However, you and I know that not all cops (99.99%) are not bad. They proudly put on that uniform to serve the people and make sure the community is safe.


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## ATLien

Danny Knobler reports for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that Sefolosha turned down a deal agreement that would have offered him only a conditional dismissal.

Sefolosha was offered only an adjournment in contemplation of dismissal (ACD), asking him to perform a day of community service and agreeing to dismiss and seal the file in six months as long as he avoided further trouble. Sefolosha declined that offer in favor of either a complete dismissal or a trial before a jury.

Trail to begin on October 5th.


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## R-Star

I hope he gets absolutely ****ed. 

You idiots acting like the cops just ran in looking to hurt people are moronic. The only reason this is an issue is that he's an athlete and with recent events the cops don't want any blowback.


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## Da Grinch

R-Star said:


> I hope he gets absolutely ****ed.
> 
> You idiots acting like the cops just ran in looking to hurt people are moronic. The only reason this is an issue is that he's an athlete and with recent events the cops don't want any blowback.


why should anyone accept a plea when they dont feel they did anything wrong?

and of course there are videos confirming this .

if the PD had a real case they wouldn't have offered him anything worth taking , thabo is going to court, in all likelyhood he will win easy , and then he is going to sue them....and win again.

it was more like NYPD offered that deal to save face .


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## E.H. Munro

PD said:


> E.H. Munro, I am not even sure how to respond to this, because it is the most closed-minded and idiotic opinion i have read. It is difficult to pay that $300 fine, getting arrested for DUI, or other crimes. Our opinion can be affected by these factors. However, you and I know that not all cops (99.99%) are not bad. They proudly put on that uniform to serve the people and make sure the community is safe.


I have no idea what $300 fines have to do with shit as I have not only never paid one of those, I've never even been arrested. Want to know why? I come from a cop family and live in the area where all my relatives work and even on those rare occasions where I do come into contact with police they all ask me if I'm related to (insert name of various cousins or uncles here), and the answer's invariably yes.

However coming from a cop family, I've actually heard all the horror stories. And the code of silence that police maintain is absolutely a real thing. And that's why most cops are bad, because they'd rather "cover for their brothers" than do the right thing. Every once in a while you read about an officer that does do the right thing, and the story usually ends with them losing their job for being "untrustworthy".


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## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> I hope he gets absolutely ****ed.
> 
> You idiots acting like the cops just ran in looking to hurt people are moronic. The only reason this is an issue is that he's an athlete and with recent events the cops don't want any blowback.


I mean it's not like the NYPD got caught strangling some African-American guy for selling loose cigarettes or one of their detectives beat the shit out of a former African-American tennis star or anything.


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## ATLien

$$$$ time

Pero Antic: Sefolosha was giving cash to homeless

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...-was-giving-cash-homeless-taken-ground-police

Lawyer says Thabo Sefolosha was targeted by cop because he's black

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...-guard-thabo-sefolosha-was-targeted-cop-black


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## ATLien

Why no media coverage of this trial?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/651889685514600448


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## Da Grinch

Not guilty, and let the civil suit begin, 

Truthfully when police go around breaking legs for unjust causes they need to be arrested.


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## ATLien

Good thing Thabo is a millionaire. Otherwise, he would have had to settle, have a criminal record and with ridiculous medical and legal fees to pay.


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## Bubbles

> *Hawks' Thabo Sefolosha found not guilty in NYC arrest case*
> 
> NEW YORK -- Atlanta Hawks player Thabo Sefolosha was acquitted Friday in a case stemming from a police fracas outside a trendy New York City nightclub.
> 
> A Manhattan jury deliberated for about an hour and found Sefolosha not guilty of misdemeanor obstructing government administration, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.
> 
> "They were on the side of truth and justice today. ... I'm just happy all this is over now and I can put this behind me, knowing my name has been cleared," the 31-year-old Sefolosha told reporters.
> 
> The guard-forward, who suffered a fractured right leg in the April 8 struggle with police, was accused of repeatedly disobeying the orders of officers telling him to leave the area around the club where another NBA player, Chris Copeland, had been stabbed.
> 
> He testified that he moved off the block at the behest of a vulgar and confrontational officer and was trying to give a beggar a $20 bill when he was grabbed by officers and taken to the ground.
> 
> "They arrested him," Sefolosha's attorney, Alex Spiro, said in his closing argument. "They broke his leg out of eyeshot or earshot of an unrelated crime scene."
> 
> Sefolosha wiped his eyes with a tissue after the verdict was announced. He looked over at the jury and mouthed "Thank you" several times.
> 
> When asked by reporters Friday whether he would be suing the city now, Sefolosha said: "I haven't made a decision on that."
> 
> Before the confrontation turned physical, the 6-foot-6 Sefolosha said he challenged the tone of a particularly aggressive officer who was ushering him, former teammate Pero Antic and others. He said he called the 5-foot-7 officer "a midget." Charges against Antic later were dropped.
> 
> But prosecutors presented a different theory, arguing that Sefolosha, a Swiss citizen, acted entitled as he slowly departed the 1Oak nightclub. They said he eventually locked his arms in front of him to make it more difficult for arresting officers to put on handcuffs.
> 
> "The police don't get to tell the defendant how to play basketball," an assistant district attorney, Francesca Bartolomey, said in her summation. "The defendant doesn't get to say where the crime scene ends."
> 
> Prosecutors had offered Sefolosha a plea deal that would have seen the charges dismissed in exchange for doing one day of community service. But he rejected the offer, saying he wanted to set the record straight.
> 
> The decision to testify at trial "wasn't difficult at all," he said. "All I had to do was tell the truth."
> 
> The case is the second one involving high-profile athletes accusing New York Police Department officers of wrongdoing this year. On Wednesday, the city agency charged with investigating police misconduct substantiated claims by former tennis pro James Blake that an officer used excessive force in taking him to the ground and wrongly arresting him last month after mistaking him for a fraud suspect.
> 
> Spiro, the defense lawyer, has suggested Sefolosha, who is black, was targeted because of his race. He pointed to surveillance video showing the white officer passing Antic, who also is white, and others as he demanded that Sefolosha move up the block.
> 
> Sefolosha had surgery on his leg and still isn't fully healed.
> 
> "I've started running and playing a little bit more; it's starting to feel better, but I don't know exactly," Sefolosha said Friday when asked about the long-term prognosis for his injury. "I hope I still have a long career ahead of me."
> 
> He said he continues to undergo rehab and isn't sure he'll be ready to play when the NBA season starts Oct. 27.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13843715/atlanta-hawks-thabo-sefolosha-found-not-guilty-nyc-arrest-case



R-Star said:


> I hope he gets absolutely ****ed.
> 
> You idiots acting like the cops just ran in looking to hurt people are moronic. The only reason this is an issue is that he's an athlete and with recent events the cops don't want any blowback.


:hibbert:


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## R-Star

Bubbles said:


> http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13843715/atlanta-hawks-thabo-sefolosha-found-not-guilty-nyc-arrest-case
> 
> 
> 
> :hibbert:



What does the Roy Hibbert face stand for? That the cops were clearly just angry racists looking to hurt a black man? One who was clearly a pro athlete at that?

If the cops tell you to leave the scene at a multiple stabbing, you leave. You don't stumble around and try to give money to some homeless guy and refuse to leave the scene.

You guys are ****ing idiots.


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## Bubbles

R-Star said:


> What does the Roy Hibbert face stand for? That the cops were clearly just angry racists looking to hurt a black man? One who was clearly a pro athlete at that?
> 
> If the cops tell you to leave the scene at a multiple stabbing, you leave. You don't stumble around and try to give money to some homeless guy and refuse to leave the scene.
> 
> You guys are ****ing idiots.


I mean Thabo and Pero got cleared for a good reason, so there was certainly an abuse of power of power by the police. Giving the choice of leaving or having your leg broken is not right no matter how you cut it. I'm looking forward to the impending lawsuit against these cops and I hope that they're out of a job by the end of it because we don't need people like that working for any police department.


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## R-Star

Bubbles said:


> I mean Thabo and Pero got cleared for a good reason, so there was certainly an abuse of power of power by the police. Giving the choice of leaving or having your leg broken is not right no matter how you cut it. I'm looking forward to the impending lawsuit against these cops and I hope that they're out of a job by the end of it because we don't need people like that working for any police department.


He not only refused to leave, but was also pulling a "I'm going over there to give this hobo some money get the **** out of my way" drunk nonsense. 

3 people were just stabbed and you think think the cops response should have been "you're right, sorry. Do whatever you want sir. Sorry to have troubled you."

Thabo got hurt because he's a giant among men and resisted arrest. It had nothing to do with his skin color. I'm tired of this nonsense. If he was just out minding his own business and they rush him that's one thing, but I guy actively refusing to leave a scene where multiple people were just stabbed and doing whatever the **** he wants? They're in full right to take him down to the ground. And a drunk 6'7"pro athlete or however tall Thabo is is pretty damn hard to bring down. 

Again, this is all ****ing nonsense.


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## Bubbles

R-Star said:


> He not only refused to leave, but was also pulling a "I'm going over there to give this hobo some money get the **** out of my way" drunk nonsense.
> 
> 3 people were just stabbed and you think think the cops response should have been "you're right, sorry. Do whatever you want sir. Sorry to have troubled you."
> 
> Thabo got hurt because he's a giant among men and resisted arrest. It had nothing to do with his skin color. I'm tired of this nonsense. If he was just out minding his own business and they rush him that's one thing, but I guy actively refusing to leave a scene where multiple people were just stabbed and doing whatever the **** he wants? They're in full right to take him down to the ground. And a drunk 6'7"pro athlete or however tall Thabo is is pretty damn hard to bring down.
> 
> Again, this is all ****ing nonsense.


I get what you're trying to say, but the jury obviously saw things differently for good reason. Between this incident, the James Blake incident, the Eric Garner incident, etc. it's just hard (for me at least) to buy into whatever line of BS that the NYPD are trying to feed us about each incident.


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## R-Star

Bubbles said:


> I get what you're trying to say, but the jury obviously saw things differently for good reason. Between this incident, the James Blake incident, the Eric Garner incident, etc. it's just hard (for me at least) to buy into whatever line of BS that the NYPD are trying to feed us about each incident.


The whole black lives matter movement is why he got off.

I don't disagree it's a huge issue that needs to be dealt with, but a drunk Thabo Sefolosha thinking he's above the law because he's a rich NBA player doesn't tie in to that. 

Not every single cop is frothing at the mouth to go hurt black people for the fun of it. A lot of you need to realize that. 

If it were 5'10" white as a ghost R-Star at that club refusing to leave a multiple stabbing and physically trying to push past cops telling me to leave I wouldn't be doing a whites only secret handshake with the NYPD a lot of you black lives matter people are acting. I'd be put on my ass as a criminal obstructing and active crime scene. 

Only difference between me and Thabo is I'd be a criminal and he's a poor black victim of racism who in reality is just a rich jackass gaming the system over blacks who actually faced and sometime died at the hands of police brutality.


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## Da Grinch

You know its ok to simply admit you were wrong and move on, the case was incredibly one sided armed with video footage and like 8 witnesses that verified sefalosha's story and said the cop was in the wrong and even the cop admitted upon cross examination he omitted that thabo did move and the incident took place almost 100 ft away from the entrance from the club because it would "be good for the defendant".

It was uncalled for and since you seem to lack the facts maybe you should cool with the fucking idiots talk


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## R-Star

Da Grinch said:


> You know its ok to simply admit you were wrong and move on, the case was incredibly one sided armed with video footage and like 8 witnesses that verified sefalosha's story and said the cop was in the wrong and even the cop admitted upon cross examination he omitted that thabo did move and the incident took place almost 100 ft away from the entrance from the club because it would "be good for the defendant".
> 
> It was uncalled for and since you seem to lack the facts maybe you should cool with the fucking idiots talk


Cool. Show me a law book that says you don't have to follow police jurisdiction if it's "almost 100 ft away" from where multiple people were stabbed. 

Keep jousting them windmills champ.


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## ATLien




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## ATLien

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/10/09/th...guilty-hawks-pacers-pero-antic-chris-copeland

Sefolosha’s wealth would place him in an advantageous position in suing the NYPD: he would be in no rush to settle. According to Basketball-Reference.com, Sefolosha has earned $26 million during his nine-year NBA career. When a plaintiff already has a good deal of money in the bank, he or she is typically less inclined to accept a settlement unless it is truly an offer that can’t be refused. For Sefolosha, suing the police would likely be about justice, not money, and drawing critical attention to a police department that has come under fire for its treatment of people of color.


----------



## R-Star

The police is funded with tax payer money..... you idiots get that right? You don't sue the NYPD and they shut down precincts or fire people to make up for the cost. You get that right? It's just tax payers who get to foot the bill, and some rich drunk asshole who gets to pretend he's a hero so the chattle can have their justice, even if financially they're the ones punished in the long run.


----------



## Da Grinch

Yeah I'll get right on that as soon as you can show where its legal to break people's legs after they complied with the cops directive

My guess is I'll be waiting while you think up a lame comeback


----------



## R-Star

Da Grinch said:


> Yeah I'll get right on that as soon as you can show where its legal to break people's legs after they complied with the cops directive
> 
> My guess is I'll be waiting while you think up a lame comeback


You realize how ridiculous a "you first!" response is between adults, correct?

Also, you acting like he 100% complied with the officers and they just "broke his legs" because they hates em' some black people is so beyond ignorant I'm not sure what to even say.

Do you think OJ was innocent?


----------



## Da Grinch

Wow is that the best you got OJ?

Its sad I bet next you gonna bring up Malcolm x or MLK 

You keep generalizing and making up stuff Its working so well for you.

He was aquitted not because of BLM or al sharpton but because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that supports his version of events 

But hey since when does common sense or facts matter to you.


----------



## R-Star

Da Grinch said:


> Wow is that the best you got OJ?
> 
> Its sad I bet next you gonna bring up Malcolm x or MLK
> 
> You keep generalizing and making up stuff Its working so well for you.
> 
> He was aquitted not because of BLM or al sharpton but because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that supports his version of events
> 
> But hey since when does common sense or facts matter to you.


So you'd rather not comment on if you think OJ was innocent or not I see?


----------



## Bubbles




----------



## Bubbles

OJ was (most likely) guilty, but he got acquitted because the prosecution botched it and the defense did a great job instilling doubt in the minds of the jurors based on the how authorities handled the evidence. Thabo is a completely different story though because there is video evidence and several witnesses who back up Thabo's story. It's really not a good comparison for the argument that you are trying to make.


----------



## R-Star

Bubbles said:


> OJ was (most likely) guilty, but he got acquitted because the prosecution botched it and the defense did a great job instilling doubt in the minds of the jurors based on the how authorities handled the evidence. Thabo is a completely different story though because there is video evidence and several witnesses who back up Thabo's story. It's really not a good comparison for the argument that you are trying to make.


OJ was found innocent because people were tired of injustice for black people. Blacks buy and large get harder sentences and fines, and are clearly targeted by cops. Hell, some die for compete bullshit reasons and some filthy racist asshole keeps his job and only gets a slap on the wrist. 

That needs to change. That is if not America's biggest problem, pretty god damn close. 

My point was, with all that said OJ was still clearly to everyone involved a murderer, and Thabo is clearly a guy who got drunk and thought "**** you cop, I'm Thabo and I do what I want." 

The absolutely aphorent state of America doesnt make every black man since the post Treyvon Martin media storm innocent and victims to police brutality. Guys like Da Grinch and others are acting like Thabo did nothing wrong and the police were just out for blood. They broke his leg out of pure bloodlust. To idiots like that? I'll put them in their place.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Da Grinch said:


> Wow is that the best you got OJ?


R-star has never ever been wrong about anything and he'll double down on anything he says no matter how stupid. He's essentially claiming that police are free to commit assault and justify it by saying "Well a crime happened just four miles away and this is part of the scene!" 

I've gone over this with him before, but he keeps thinking of the police in terms of the generally polite Canuckian police. We don't have those guys here. Hell, a police officer just got away with rape here in the US with a "She was asking for it!" defense that _no_ ordinary citizen would be allowed to present in court.


----------



## ATLien

Report: Thabo Sefolosha will sue the city of New York and the New York Police Department for $50 million

http://nypost.com/2015/10/21/nbaer-plans-50m-lawsuit-against-city-over-broken-leg/


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> R-star has never ever been wrong about anything and he'll double down on anything he says no matter how stupid. He's essentially claiming that police are free to commit assault and justify it by saying "Well a crime happened just four miles away and this is part of the scene!"
> 
> I've gone over this with him before, but he keeps thinking of the police in terms of the generally polite Canuckian police. We don't have those guys here. Hell, a police officer just got away with rape here in the US with a "She was asking for it!" defense that _no_ ordinary citizen would be allowed to present in court.


You claiming someone else won't admit when they're wrong is the dumbest thing I've probably ever heard. 

You're a pariah on this site that no one replies to because you're a pathetic old belligerent man losing touch with reality. 

I also like how now Thabo was 4 miles away and I'm a proponent for police violence. You never let me down with your complete incompetence.


----------



## Da Grinch

R-Star said:


> So you'd rather not comment on if you think OJ was innocent or not I see?


no that is not it at all i just want to know why a case over 2 decades ago 3,000 miles away is brought up out the blue 

why bring up black lives matter , they to my knowledge have had nothing to do with this

this is basketballforum.com not nfl players who have been retired for a decade 21 years ago .com

it has no relevance

why not bring up dred scott or roe vs wade ? .

i think with you its simply and sadly a race issue 

which it simplistic and pretty much what i expect from you 

to me its a matter of right and wrong and would like to see some justice....but its cute watching you try to turn into something else .

sad but cute.


----------



## R-Star

Da Grinch said:


> no that is not it at all i just want to know why a case over 2 decades ago 3,000 miles away is brought up out the blue
> 
> why bring up black lives matter , they to my knowledge have had nothing to do with this
> 
> this is basketballforum.com not nfl players who have been retired for a decade 21 years ago .com
> 
> it has no relevance
> 
> why not bring up dred scott or roe vs wade ? .
> 
> i think with you its simply and sadly a race issue
> 
> which it simplistic and pretty much what i expect from you
> 
> to me its a matter of right and wrong and would like to see some justice....but its cute watching you try to turn into something else .
> 
> sad but cute.


You know how asinine it is for you to say this is basketballforum.com so we aren't supposed to talk about football (we do by the way) and that I shouldn't bring up other cases or the black lives matter movement...... yet you brought up other cases on your own. 

I'd just like to know if you understand how stupid a stance that is to take. Especially when you make it the crux of your argument. 

Do you understand that? 


Do you also understand that my argument is that Thabo was drunk (he clearly was), and that he didn't listen to the cops (he clearly didn't) and that it took excessive force to bring down a 6'7" professional athlete that is known for being one of the tougher guys in the NBA?

That's been my stance the whole way along. Your's, EH Munro's and others? That Thabo did absolutely nothing wrong (in EH's case even going so far as to say he was 4 miles away), and that he was clearly targeted by blood thirsty racist cops just looking to hurt a black male. 

Read both of those. Yea. I'm clearly way the **** out of line here with my thinking.


----------



## Da Grinch

R-Star said:


> You know how asinine it is for you to say this is basketballforum.com so we aren't supposed to talk about football (we do by the way) and that I shouldn't bring up other cases or the black lives matter movement...... yet you brought up other cases on your own.
> 
> I'd just like to know if you understand how stupid a stance that is to take. Especially when you make it the crux of your argument.
> 
> Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> Do you also understand that my argument is that Thabo was drunk (he clearly was), and that he didn't listen to the cops (he clearly didn't) and that it took excessive force to bring down a 6'7" professional athlete that is known for being one of the tougher guys in the NBA?
> 
> That's been my stance the whole way along. Your's, EH Munro's and others? That Thabo did absolutely nothing wrong (in EH's case even going so far as to say he was 4 miles away), and that he was clearly targeted by blood thirsty racist cops just looking to hurt a black male.
> 
> Read both of those. Yea. I'm clearly way the **** out of line here with my thinking.


as usual you prove either you cant read or are simply being a bitch about a difference of opinion 

the cops dont even say thabo was drunk(they would have charged him with public drunkeness or given him a breathalyzer) ...but you know it 

or that he didnt move as directed when actually he clearly did 

as usual talking out your ass

and i didnt bring up other cases you did as if my opinion on a 21 year old case in california has anything to do with what happened in new york in april.

so let me get this straight in 1994 you were like 10 or 11 but but from your hick town in canada you have a nuanced understanding of race relations in Los Angeles , their legal workings and ramifications and apparently knowledge of the fix being in as they let OJ go free 

its moronic 

once again there are multiple videos and eyewitnesses all refuting the cops version of events thabo's case , not some bloody glove or a police reform group protesting the event.

its just a case of you talking out your ass and not being man enough to admit it so you want to go in any other direction as somehow to distract us from that.

pathetic.


----------



## Bubbles




----------



## R-Star

Da Grinch said:


> as usual you prove either you cant read or are simply being a bitch about a difference of opinion
> 
> the cops dont even say thabo was drunk(they would have charged him with public drunkeness or given him a breathalyzer) ...but you know it
> 
> or that he didnt move as directed when actually he clearly did
> 
> as usual talking out your ass
> 
> and i didnt bring up other cases you did as if my opinion on a 21 year old case in california has anything to do with what happened in new york in april.
> 
> so let me get this straight in 1994 you were like 10 or 11 but but from your hick town in canada you have a nuanced understanding of race relations in Los Angeles , their legal workings and ramifications and apparently knowledge of the fix being in as they let OJ go free
> 
> its moronic
> 
> once again there are multiple videos and eyewitnesses all refuting the cops version of events thabo's case , not some bloody glove or a police reform group protesting the event.
> 
> its just a case of you talking out your ass and not being man enough to admit it so you want to go in any other direction as somehow to distract us from that.
> 
> pathetic.


So... no one said Thabo went to go give the homeless man money after being told to leave the scene? No one said that? Thabo himself didn't say that?

Whoops.

Also I like how you just justified letting a guilty murder go free because race relations were bad. Not only that, but somehow turn it into an insult on white people who don't agree. 

You understand your whole "hick town in Canada" nonsense is the exact sort of stereotyping your accusing others of, correct?


----------



## Da Grinch

R-Star said:


> So... no one said Thabo went to go give the homeless man money after being told to leave the scene? No one said that? Thabo himself didn't say that?
> 
> Whoops.
> 
> Also I like how you just justified letting a guilty murder go free because race relations were bad. Not only that, but somehow turn it into an insult on white people who don't agree.
> 
> You understand your whole "hick town in Canada" nonsense is the exact sort of stereotyping your accusing others of, correct?


thabo according to the cop who arrested him in cross examination had moved almost 100 ft away from the crime scene when they arrested him

thabo was also with a group of people who were directed away from the crime scene

thabo was not closer to the crime scene than his teammate pero antic and several other people were closer as well hell even the homeless man was closer to the crime scene than thabo as thabo *reached back* to give him the money .

reading is fundamental 

i didnt give an opinion on any murder trial the only trial i have had an opinion on is thabo's.

but you go on making stuff up ...its working so well for you.


----------



## R-Star

Da Grinch said:


> thabo according to the cop who arrested him in cross examination had moved almost 100 ft away from the crime scene when they arrested him
> 
> thabo was also with a group of people who were directed away from the crime scene
> 
> thabo was not closer to the crime scene than his teammate pero antic and several other people were closer as well hell even the homeless man was closer to the crime scene than thabo as thabo *reached back* to give him the money .
> 
> reading is fundamental
> 
> i didnt give an opinion on any murder trial the only trial i have had an opinion on is thabo's.
> 
> but you go on making stuff up ...its working so well for you.


I find it hilarious you bring up Pero Antic like it's proof of racism. Antic was told to sit down. He argued a bit then complied. Thabo didn not.. They didn't need 3 cops to take Pero down because he wasn't resisting and just doing whatever the **** he wanted. 

And why do you keep saying 100ft away like it matters? There's nowhere in the world where it was 100ft (or 4 miles according to EH Munroe) is the minimum distance to be considered not in a crime scene. You keep saying it like it's ironclad evidence. 

Also, you're right, reading is fundamental. If you think you writing 
"so let me get this straight in 1994 you were like 10 or 11 but but from your hick town in canada you have a nuanced understanding of race relations in Los Angeles , their legal workings and ramifications and apparently knowledge of the fix being in as they let OJ go free" isn't giving an opinion on a trial, you should probably read up what the word opinion means.


----------



## E.H. Munro

A) OJ Simpson has zilch to do with America's increasing problem with police violence. Literally nothing. There's not even a six degrees of Kevin Bacon way to link it up. It's just a case of someone saying "Forget the evidence, look at the monkey over there!!!!" Fuck the monkey.

B) The evidence in the case did not support the reports the police filed. Full stop. To put this in terms that even you can understand, this means that the police _lied_ when filing documents with the court. Do you know what the penalty would be if you lied to the court? In most jurisdictions here it's a year in prison. When you're a policeman it's a pat on the back and a "Job well done". It was Sefalosha's good fortune that the police didn't destroy all the evidence.

C) Police violence is a huge problem here. American police are on track to break their own record for killings in a year. And that's just the killing of human beings. The hunting of dogs for sport by American police is out of control. It's now considered a fringe benefit of the job. The phenomenon of rapidly rising police violence makes our mainstream papers now. You can read articles in the Washington Post, New York Times, The Atlantic Monthly, The Intercept, and many more. There are even books on the new breed of paramilitary policing. 

D) You're flat out wrong. The police department in question murdered a man on Staten Island just a few months prior to this incident. The current mayor of New York proposed a modest reform to keep the peace, a civilian review board that would have the power to judge police department procedures and oversee disciplinary hearings _because_ the police union run review board has, in what I'm sure will come as a major shock, never found any of its members to have acted inappropriately. The police responded by going on strike and by charging the mayor with "waging a war on cops".


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> A) OJ Simpson has zilch to do with America's increasing problem with police violence. Literally nothing. There's not even a six degrees of Kevin Bacon way to link it up. It's just a case of someone saying "Forget the evidence, look at the monkey over there!!!!" Fuck the monkey.
> 
> B) The evidence in the case did not support the reports the police filed. Full stop. To put this in terms that even you can understand, this means that the police _lied_ when filing documents with the court. Do you know what the penalty would be if you lied to the court? In most jurisdictions here it's a year in prison. When you're a policeman it's a pat on the back and a "Job well done". It was Sefalosha's good fortune that the police didn't destroy all the evidence.
> 
> C) Police violence is a huge problem here. American police are on track to break their own record for killings in a year. And that's just the killing of human beings. The hunting of dogs for sport by American police is out of control. It's now considered a fringe benefit of the job. The phenomenon of rapidly rising police violence makes our mainstream papers now. You can read articles in the Washington Post, New York Times, The Atlantic Monthly, The Intercept, and many more. There are even books on the new breed of paramilitary policing.
> 
> D) You're flat out wrong. The police department in question murdered a man on Staten Island just a few months prior to this incident. The current mayor of New York proposed a modest reform to keep the peace, a civilian review board that would have the power to judge police department procedures and oversee disciplinary hearings _because_ the police union run review board has, in what I'm sure will come as a major shock, never found any of its members to have acted inappropriately. The police responded by going on strike and by charging the mayor with "waging a war on cops".


Fuck the monkey? Are you out of your ****ing mind?

I'll follow suit with every single other poster on this website and just ignore you and your posts after reading that.

"Fuck the monkey......" What a ****ing worthess idiot you are. That's about as bottom of the barrel you can go for tactics.


----------



## Bubbles




----------



## E.H. Munro

I mean clearly a 20+ year old homicide case is at the center of America's issue with police violence. It was clearly the major historical event of the last century.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> I mean clearly a 20+ year old homicide case is at the center of America's issue with police violence. It was clearly the major historical event of the last century.


Can you elaborate on who said that, or would you rather just keep trying to tweek my argument to how it suits you?

I'm already being portrayed as a frothing at the mouth racist saying Thabo was throwing punches at cops while they tried to verbally calm him down before they were left with no choice but to take him to the ground because he went for one of their guns.

The reason no one else steps into these debates other than the "****ing racist cops!" crowd is because no matter what you type, you're railroaded as a racist by you morons if you don't agree that every single cop is secretly a clan member and only joined the force to hunt black males. Personally I know who I am and what I am, so I don't give a **** what some senile old freedom fighter online calls me, so I post my opinion. Others don't want the nonsense that comes with threads like these.


----------



## E.H. Munro

You don't have any arguments. That became clear the minute you dragged OJ's mouldering corpse out of its prison cell to toss it into the middle of a discussion that had nothing to do with it. Not even a smidgeon.

Neither is the whole "clan" (and I think you might mean _Klan_) line of argument pertinent. One does not have to think that _any_ member of the police is out burning crosses on lawns to observe that the official position of America's police unions is that the colour of a person's skin constitutes a valid reason for the use of lethal force. We saw this at work in Ohio with the whitewashings of the murders of John Crawford and Tamir Rice. 

In both cases the only defense offered by the officers in question was that they saw a black man holding something that looked like a gun and therefore they had to shoot (mind you in both cases the police officers initially _lied_ and claimed that the murder victims were belligerent, until in both cases surveillance video came to light showing that the officers opened fire the very moment they encountered the victims). And in both cases the local authorities decided that even a 13 year old boy was a threat due to his skin colour. 

I understand that you live in a country where the police are largely polite and well behaved, I'm pretty sure that everyone acknowledges this every time you come stomping into one of these discussions. But that's not the American police. Things are _very_ different down here. And before you shout at Americans, who are doing little more than observing the increasing levels of police carnage in our streets, that we don't know what we're talking about, you may want to look at the actual statistics. Police violence is at an all time high, despite the "war on cops!!!!" rhetoric being pushed by Fox, violence done to police is at historic lows. And, no, it's not because of all our aspiring Dirty Harries shooting in the streets. It's just that violent crime has been decreasing for a quarter century in the US.

Oh, and yes, police violence is so endemic here that it's now a subject skewered by mainstream comedy outfits...


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> You don't have any arguments. That became clear the minute you dragged OJ's mouldering corpse out of its prison cell to toss it into the middle of a discussion that had nothing to do with it. Not even a smidgeon.
> 
> Neither is the whole "clan" (and I think you might mean _Klan_) line of argument pertinent. One does not have to think that _any_ member of the police is out burning crosses on lawns to observe that the official position of America's police unions is that the colour of a person's skin constitutes a valid reason for the use of lethal force. We saw this at work in Ohio with the whitewashings of the murders of John Crawford and Tamir Rice.
> 
> In both cases the only defense offered by the officers in question was that they saw a black man holding something that looked like a gun and therefore they had to shoot (mind you in both cases the police officers initially _lied_ and claimed that the murder victims were belligerent, until in both cases surveillance video came to light showing that the officers opened fire the very moment they encountered the victims). And in both cases the local authorities decided that even a 13 year old boy was a threat due to his skin colour.
> 
> I understand that you live in a country where the police are largely polite and well behaved, I'm pretty sure that everyone acknowledges this every time you come stomping into one of these discussions. But that's not the American police. Things are _very_ different down here. And before you shout at Americans, who are doing little more than observing the increasing levels of police carnage in our streets, that we don't know what we're talking about, you may want to look at the actual statistics. Police violence is at an all time high, despite the "war on cops!!!!" rhetoric being pushed by Fox, violence done to police is at historic lows. And, no, it's not because of all our aspiring Dirty Harries shooting in the streets. It's just that violent crime has been decreasing for a quarter century in the US.
> 
> Oh, and yes, police violence is so endemic here that it's now a subject skewered by mainstream comedy outfits...
> 
> WKUK - Be A Cop - YouTube


Again, this is why no one debates in these threads, or to an even bigger level, debates with you. 

I read up to the "Lets talk about the xxx case". You bringing up black males murdered by cops? Completely relevant to a drunk Thabo forcefully being taken to the ground by cops. You're right! I can't believe I didn't see that until now, but those are completely relevant to each other and comparable. 

Point being, if me bringing up the OJ case to try to show someones perspective on justice and if they're ok with a man getting away with butchering two people because a black man finally got off is completely unacceptable and according to you, laughable, then your idiotic comparisons to black males who were murdered by cops are in the same boat. Especially since it was asked "Why are you bringing up black lives matter R-Star?"

Also, I find it hilariously hypocritical that you keep trying to both tell me how cops are in Canada, based on your own personal bias, and that there's a secret "does this guy hate blacks" test to become a cop in America. For a guy who is so blatantly clouded by misinformation and hatred, your comments on blacks suffering from the same treatment would be funny if it weren't about such a depressing subject.


----------



## E.H. Munro

_Again_, the evidence in the Sefalosha case showed that the police officer _lied_, which is why he's free. And given your refusal to address that and insistence on trying to distract the conversation, first with the ham-handed OJ nonsense and now with your pathetic attempt to make me the subject of the thread, your charges that I'm derailing the discussion are hilarious.

Do you want to know why they're not arguing with me? It's because I'm agreeing with them and there's nothing to argue about. The argument here is with the guy shouting "Oh yeah? I bet you think OJ is innocent too!!!!" Fuck OJ.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> _Again_, the evidence in the Sefalosha case showed that the police officer _lied_, which is why he's free. And given your refusal to address that and insistence on trying to distract the conversation, first with the ham-handed OJ nonsense and now with your pathetic attempt to make me the subject of the thread, your charges that I'm derailing the discussion are hilarious.
> 
> Do you want to know why they're not arguing with me? It's because I'm agreeing with them and there's nothing to argue about. The argument here is with the guy shouting "Oh yeah? I bet you think OJ is innocent too!!!!" Fuck OJ.


Where did I say fuck OJ? I can quote where you said the overwhelming majority of cops are racists looking to be paid to beat and kill black people. I can honestly quote that. Can you quote anything you're accusing me of?

I can quote you saying Thabo did absolutely nothing wrong and was 4 miles away at the time. Can you quote where I said anything other than Thabo was drunk, not listening to the cops and that I doubted the cops out that night were looking to break 6'7" black guys leg? Please, quote where I said otherwise.


I expected better from Bubbles. I know you're a fucking moron, but I didn't expect him to jump in on the "A black guy and white cop? They better sue and the cop should be put in jail! Racism! RACISM!"

Again, you guys are fucking morons. That's exactly why no one is posting in here, and again EH, why no one other than myself and occasionally Bogg when in Celtics threads posts with you. 90% of the time you're talking to yourself and people just jump right past your post when they see your username. Would be interesting to see what percentage of your posts are quoted. I'd guess 5%.


----------



## E.H. Munro

I said "Fuck OJ." You keep demanding that people talk about a 20+ year old homicide case that has zero relevance to the Sefalosha case. Not even a little bit. There's not even a Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon bridge to the Sefalosha case.

And, no, you can't quote me saying that Sefalosha was four miles away. What you could quote me saying is that by the logic you're espousing that a police officer could in theory justify violence because a crime happened four miles off but he was defining the ground as part of the scene. Now, do you have anything worthwhile to say?


----------



## Bubbles

Sorry to let you down @R-Star. I side with Thabo completely in this situation though. Serious reform is needed to curb the growing paramilitary police force across the country.


----------



## R-Star

Bubbles said:


> Sorry to let you down @R-Star. I side with Thabo completely in this situation though. Serious reform is needed to curb the growing paramilitary police force across the country.


Serious reform is in need. I've posted that countless times. The American police system is in need of a massive overhaul (as is the Canadian system, contrary to what uber informed EH Monroe has said).

There are without a doubt officers that descriminate, and have a racial axe to grind. There's also clearly a lack of training in some cities/states when it comes to dealing with an issue when it gets out of your control. I've been a huge supporter of them tearing down what they have, rooting out the problem officers, and the re-writing the rule book and just as important the training. 

That being said, should there be someone who doesn't immediately cry "Racist white cop!" anytime something happens to a black male by the police? I believe so, and I'll continue to do so in cases I believe warrant it. 

Thabo was at a club at 4am and refused to cooperate where another NBA player was just stabbed. That doesn't at all fall in line with the "Thabo did nothing wrong and these cops where just looking to hurt a black male" hysteria that has filled this thread.

If you're taking sides with these guys (EH or Da Grinch), you probably need to take a step back an re-evaluate. There can be a case of a few cops trying to deal with a drunk, uncooperative 6'7" pro athelete and even have them screw up and use too much force without it having to be about racism. If you don't see that I feel sorry about how you view society.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> I said "Fuck OJ." You keep demanding that people talk about a 20+ year old homicide case that has zero relevance to the Sefalosha case. Not even a little bit. There's not even a Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon bridge to the Sefalosha case.
> 
> And, no, you can't quote me saying that Sefalosha was four miles away. What you could quote me saying is that by the logic you're espousing that a police officer could in theory justify violence because a crime happened four miles off but he was defining the ground as part of the scene. Now, do you have anything worthwhile to say?


You keep bringing up OJ like I said it over and over and refused to move away from it. I think by asking someone if they thought he was guilty or innocent would give a good view on if they have a grasp on reality when it comes to the law. If people don't agree, that's fine. Maybe I'm wrong for bringing it up so I moved on. You didn't. You're the one who keeps bringing OJ up, not me. You also keep saying six degrees like it's a funny joke. If it's a funny joke EH, someone will laugh and let you know, but a good indicator that it is not is if you have to keep repeating it.

I also like that you went from comparing this to blacks who were murder by cops until I called you out for it and have completely moved away from it, as you moved away from insinuating I'm a racist after I called you out for it as well. 
Way to stick to your guns on those.


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> You keep bringing up OJ like I said it over and over and refused to move away from it.


Let's look at the record, shall we?



R-Star said:


> Do you think OJ was innocent?





R-Star said:


> So you'd rather not comment on if you think OJ was innocent or not I see?





R-Star said:


> OJ was found innocent because people were tired of injustice for black people. Blacks buy and large get harder sentences and fines, and are clearly targeted by cops. Hell, some die for compete bullshit reasons and some filthy racist asshole keeps his job and only gets a slap on the wrist.


Yeah, clearly it was everyone else's fault and poor R-Star is being oppressed again.



R-Star said:


> I also like that you went from comparing this to blacks who were murder by cops until I called you out for it and have completely moved away from it, as you moved away from insinuating I'm a racist after I called you out for it as well.


I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean. What have I backed away from? I mocked your claims that the victims deserved their beating by making note that the New York police were fresh off the murder of a black man on Staten Island and the attack of former tennis star James Blake. But that was like a month and a half ago. Are you still carrying that around with you? Your worthless opinion aside, the New York City police have a long and inglorious history of murdering, beating, _and_ torturing African-American men. Can't really be argued. Which won't stop you from stomping your feet, holding your breath, and crying about how we're all so unfair to you.


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## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> Let's look at the record, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, clearly it was everyone else's fault and poor R-Star is being oppressed again.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean. What have I backed away from? I mocked your claims that the victims deserved their beating by making note that the New York police were fresh off the murder of a black man on Staten Island and the attack of former tennis star James Blake. But that was like a month and a half ago. Are you still carrying that around with you? Your worthless opinion aside, the New York City police have a long and inglorious history of murdering, beating, _and_ torturing African-American men. Can't really be argued. Which won't stop you from stomping your feet, holding your breath, and crying about how we're all so unfair to you.


This could possibly be the dumbest response I've ever read. 

EH... you are talking about OJ. You keep bringing him up. You want to make that your strawman so you can run away from the fact you're comparing this to murder cases.

Lets make this simple. Just answer this one question for me without ridiculous semantics and your usual EH garbage posting.

Do you think Thabo was specifically targeted and attacked because he was a black male? 

Now keep in mind I don't want a stupid 8 page synopsis on how the 1943 charter of who gives a **** dictates that.... no. Just yes or no, and we'll move forward from there.


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## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> This could possibly be the dumbest response I've ever read.


Only because you never read what you write.



R-Star said:


> EH... you are talking about OJ.


Clearly I invented all those time stamped quotes from you. 



R-Star said:


> You keep bringing him up. You want to make that your strawman so you can run away from the fact you're comparing this to murder cases.


I see what the problem is, you don't actually understand what the word "compare" actually means. I didn't compare the Sefalosha case to anything. A month and a half ago I noted that the NYPD was fresh off the attack of another African-American athlete and had murdered an African-American man a couple of months before. Put another way I noted that the NYPD has a serious problem that they've refused to deal with as it's been ongoing for decades. And any modest suggestions by the civilian authorities to improve things bring rebellion from the NYPD rank and file. 



R-Star said:


> Do you think Thabo was specifically targeted and attacked because he was a black male?


I'm not sure your question has any real meaning. American police forces have not treated African-Americans with the same courtesy they treat we palefaces ever. I don't think they ever think twice about beating, shooting, and in the case of the NYPD, torturing African-Americans, because it's a freebie. Because in 2015 they can still just waltz before a court, on the incredibly rare instances that public outcry forces a prosecution, with a prosecutor that isn't really trying to convict them, and tell the jury "I was ascurred of the ******" and the jury will almost certainly let them walk. That's just the way things are here. In risk/reward considerations there's no essential risk to violence.


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## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> Only because you never read what you write.
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly I invented all those time stamped quotes from you.
> 
> 
> 
> I see what the problem is, you don't actually understand what the word "compare" actually means. I didn't compare the Sefalosha case to anything. A month and a half ago I noted that the NYPD was fresh off the attack of another African-American athlete and had murdered an African-American man a couple of months before. Put another way I noted that the NYPD has a serious problem that they've refused to deal with as it's been ongoing for decades. And any modest suggestions by the civilian authorities to improve things bring rebellion from the NYPD rank and file.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure your question has any real meaning. American police forces have not treated African-Americans with the same courtesy they treat we palefaces ever. I don't think they ever think twice about beating, shooting, and in the case of the NYPD, torturing African-Americans, because it's a freebie. Because in 2015 they can still just waltz before a court, on the incredibly rare instances that public outcry forces a prosecution, with a prosecutor that isn't really trying to convict them, and tell the jury "I was ascurred of the ******" and the jury will almost certainly let them walk. That's just the way things are here. In risk/reward considerations there's no essential risk to violence.


So you don't want to answer if you think Thabo was targeted and attacked because he's black? You'd rather dance around the subject and say all cops torture african americans.... another great post.

Could you just answer the question with a yes or no please. Is that too much to ask?


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## Bubbles

R-Star said:


> Serious reform is in need. I've posted that countless times. The American police system is in need of a massive overhaul (as is the Canadian system, contrary to what uber informed EH Monroe has said).
> 
> There are without a doubt officers that descriminate, and have a racial axe to grind. There's also clearly a lack of training in some cities/states when it comes to dealing with an issue when it gets out of your control. I've been a huge supporter of them tearing down what they have, rooting out the problem officers, and the re-writing the rule book and just as important the training.
> 
> That being said, should there be someone who doesn't immediately cry "Racist white cop!" anytime something happens to a black male by the police? I believe so, and I'll continue to do so in cases I believe warrant it.
> 
> Thabo was at a club at 4am and refused to cooperate where another NBA player was just stabbed. That doesn't at all fall in line with the "Thabo did nothing wrong and these cops where just looking to hurt a black male" hysteria that has filled this thread.
> 
> If you're taking sides with these guys (EH or Da Grinch), you probably need to take a step back an re-evaluate. There can be a case of a few cops trying to deal with a drunk, uncooperative 6'7" pro athelete and even have them screw up and use too much force without it having to be about racism. If you don't see that I feel sorry about how you view society.


I'm inclined to believe that there was an aspect of racism with how these cops handled this situation much like other recent cases such as what happened with James Blake. The cops, at least in this area of the country, have lost the benefit of the doubt from me. It's an unfortunate way to be looking at things like that, but when these situations keep popping up then it is becomingly increasingly difficult to be thinking otherwise.


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## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> So you don't want to answer if you think Thabo was targeted and attacked because he's black? You'd rather dance around the subject and say all cops torture african americans.... another great post.


I'm sorry that you struggle with reading comprehension. Maybe you should start all over again working your way up from Dr. Seuss before trying to comprehend big boy sentences. I very clearly explained what I think the problem is, if you're struggling with it it's because you just aren't very bright.


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## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> I'm sorry that you struggle with reading comprehension. Maybe you should start all over again working your way up from Dr. Seuss before trying to comprehend big boy sentences. I very clearly explained what I think the problem is, if you're struggling with it it's because you just aren't very bright.


So again, you refuse to answer the question with a yes or no. Does my fragile Canadian mind at least grasp that? 

I was unaware asking someone to answer with a yes or a no was so difficult.


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## R-Star

*Re: Report: Pero &amp; Thabo arrested*



Bubbles said:


> I'm inclined to believe that there was an aspect of racism with how these cops handled this situation much like other recent cases such as what happened with James Blake. The cops, at least in this area of the country, have lost the benefit of the doubt from me. It's an unfortunate way to be looking at things like that, but when these situations keep popping up then it is becomingly increasingly difficult to be thinking otherwise.


They were probably the ones who stabbed Copeland and his girlfriend as well. 

If you want to make the argument they used too much force to take him down, I take no issue with that and it could in fact be the case. But to try to act like they just out and out went to hurt a black man? The tallest one they could see?


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## Bubbles

Don't care enough about this to argue with a brick wall. Also, let's keep the personal attacks out of this, eh?


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## R-Star

Bubbles said:


> Don't care enough about this to argue with a brick wall. Also, let's keep the personal attacks out of this, eh?


I like how you call me a brick wall, yet you keep saying Thabo was attacked because he's black and refuse to back it up with anything other than "I'm inclined to believe." while I'm willing to flesh out my arguments and have a back and forth.


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## Bubbles

R-Star said:


> I like how you call me a brick wall, yet you keep saying Thabo was attacked because he's black and refuse to back it up with anything other than "I'm inclined to believe." while I'm willing to flesh out my arguments and have a back and forth.


You're not backing down from your argument and I'm not backing down from mine. I'm not interested in wasting my time with trying to change your mind.


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