# Stop making a big deal of the Spree trade. Knicks stunk with him



## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

The knicks stunk with him and would have stunked this year. They
have no where to go but up. 

Spree has been an organization killer since he arrived in the league. Finally someone was dumm enough to take him, not like there was lots of interest. 

KVN will be a solid player for the Knicks years to come.


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## Jeff van Gumby (Feb 22, 2003)

They won about half their games with Sprewell and won 1/8 without him. They went to the finals when they had a decent team and Spree. How is that terrible? Last year the Knicks almost made the playoffs, next year they'll be lucky to win 30 games.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

knicks made it the finals with spree, too you forgot about that?? Van Horn is gonna choke in NY, you see all those highlights they showed on espn when they were talking about the trade, all of em were snow and iverson in pick and rolls with him all he can do is shoot. He cant guard a parking meter, and he's doesnt even have a good post game. No wonder they say he's a good offensive rebounder, you kinda have to be when your missing so much down low and your 6'10-6'11'', spreewell was all nba first team too if you forgot. KVH has bounced around to 2 contenders in 2 years, what does that say about him??


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

Yes, Spree had lost a step by last season, he was playing out of position and was shooting more jumpers and driving less. From those points, I supported the idea of trading Spree, and I believe he still had good trade value for contending teams. 

That said, I wouldn't have traded Spree to get Van Horn. I would rather have kept an aging, slower Sprewell. The cap situation didn't improve. The Nets just traded for a worse player. 

The problem with Van Horn is that on the court at least, Sprewell represented what was still right with the Knicks. He played hard, defended, and generally did different things to help his team on the court. Van Horn represents what's wrong in the changing character of the Knicks. He puts decent stats together but he is one of the most frustrating players to watch on the court. He defends poorly, makes dumb plays, disappears on the court and seems to play more to his weaknesses than his strengths. He's paid to be a star and plays like a rookie. He had a promising start to his career, then couldn't succeed playing with Marbury, Kidd or Iverson and played inconsistently at best in the post-season.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

That's pretty optimistic of you to think the only direction for this team to go is up.


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## Jmonty580 (Jun 20, 2003)

Look at it this way, if we do worse than we did last season then we get a better lottery pick ( we werent going to win a championship with spree anyways). If we do better than we did last season then we made an improvement by trading KVH (but still wont win us a championship) 

Hopefully we suck really bad this coming season so that we can atleast secure ourselfs Pavel or the Korean Kid cause we need a center to get this team going and i dont think Vranes is going to be the answer, but in all fairness we gotta give him a try.

Winning a few more games might get us into the playoff but not far in the playoffs and not far enough to get us a ring. Id rather be the worse team in the league getting a core of young talent then to be the Hornets who keep getting to the playoffs but dont stand a chance to win even in the east. If they were lucky enough to make it to the finals they would get swept.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

> Hopefully we suck really bad this coming season so that we can atleast secure ourselfs Pavel or the Korean Kid cause we need a center to get this team going and i dont think Vranes is going to be the answer, but in all fairness we gotta give him a try.


THAT IS FIVE STAR QUALITY RIGHT THERE! I'd rather have a good young guy than one of these so-called "centers" that the east continues to produce. The top four centers are in the west right now, and the only good centers in the east are Wallace and maybe Zylgauskis (I count O'neal as a power forward).


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>benfica</b>!
> The knicks stunk with him and would have stunked this year. They
> have no where to go but up.
> 
> ...



KVH is anything but a solid player he is inconsistent, and will provide yet another GLARING hole on defense. Look, I hated Latrell's attitude much more than the average knick fan but the truth is he is a good defender. KVH is not only an inconsistent scorer with no heart or leadership ability, he is a poor defender. Latrell despite his off the court B.S. was never selfish enough to come between the win and his personal stat line, not only has KVH whined about not getting the ball enough in his jersey days, but he is barely able to create his own shot. With our pointguard problems this weakness will be amplified. Someone once posted here that he is the worst kind of tweener to much of a wimp to play in the paint, and to slow to d- up guards, they were right on the money.


Furthermore he makes more money then latrell spreewell ( according to hoopshype.com). So, in aquiring him, we got an expensive downgrade .


With spreewell there was a lot of interest, layden just demaneded to much in return. The only reason we traded for KVH is that Layden loves him. Seriously all you KVH supporters can go take a flying leap, we got screwed once again, stop trying to tell us otherwise. The only good situation in this is that now our defense is worse, this coming season we will get scored on more than a drunk girl at a frat house, leading us to hopefully take Jin or Pavel. Or maybe Daniel ewing will have a break out year and we'll get him. Whatever the point is it puts us deeper in the lottery.


_Edited for grammar_


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

Are we now that kind of fan, whose best hope is a better lottery pick? Why yes, I believe we are.

Good point. Some people are talking about Spree like he was untradeable and Knicks fans should be grateful that Layden got back anyone for him. I'm not an NBA insider, but I doubt that Spree for KVH was the only trade available. Layden, for whatever weird reason only he knows, really wanted Van Horn on the Knicks.

Yes, he's 28, but his career is going in the wrong direction and for a younger player, he has amassed quite the track record of inconsistency and unreliable play. Yes, he's 6'10, but the Knicks need height at C and a tall SF doesn't address that need at all. If he could donate 3 inches to Kurt Thomas or Othella Harrington (making KVH a 6'7 SF), the height argument would make more sense. Adding 5 inches into the frontcourt's average height doesn't mean everyone grows 5/3 inches.

Sprewell helped his teammates on offense and defense. Van Horn relies on his teammates to cover for him on offense and defense. Unfortunately, he no longer has the kind of teammates who can cover for him. I don't see how he'll be a better player with the Knicks than the guy who was rejected in consecutive seasons by two of the better teams in the division.

During the Larry Brown departure press conferences, AI stated clearly that the 76ers needed a reliable 2nd scorer in a way that spotlighted KVH as much as K-Mart's post-Finals comments did the year before. So, if KVH isn't a scorer, then what is he? A defender? A rebounder? A pass-first creator? A team leader? Perhaps, none of the above?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Stop making a big deal of the Spree trade. Knicks stunk with him*



> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


5 star post. This sums up Van Horn in a nutshell. The guy has the weakest mentality for a pro basketball player I have ever seen. He will shrivel up like a tulip for the Knicks this year. I am pissed that I am going to see 82 games of it this year.


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## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

*Blah Blah*

The fact is the Knicks stunk with Spree and KVH has played a BIG ROLE in winning organizations the past few years. He was one of the reasons that the Nets advanced to the finals and the Sixers went as far as they did.

KVH is a huge upgrade over Spree, he is a better offensive player, rebounder and defender. If he was as bad as you all say he wouldn't have been winning.

How is it that Spree has heart when his team didn't even make the playoffs or play any meaningfull game.

KVH is a solid player who will score more than his opponent and
help the Knicks win more than the previous year.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: Blah Blah*



> Originally posted by <b>benfica</b>!
> KVH is a huge upgrade over Spree, he is a better offensive player, rebounder and defender. If he was as bad as you all say he wouldn't have been winning.


KVH winning had more to do with his star teammates of the past (Kidd, Iverson) than any of KVH's heroics on the court. When you say KVH is a better defender than Sprewell, I disgress and when the good power forwards come into town, you'll either see Keith hidden in a zone or if he remains man-to-man, burnt.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: Re: Blah Blah*



> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> 
> 
> KVH winning had more to do with his star teammates of the past (Kidd, Iverson) than any of KVH's heroics on the court. When you say KVH is a better defender than Sprewell, I disgress and when the good power forwards come into town, you'll either see Keith hidden in a zone or if he remains man-to-man, burnt.



Thank you for posting this so I didn't have to. KVH is UNABLE TO CREATE HIS OWN SHOT!!!!. His defense is on par with Dirk's, and NO kvh didn't have a big role. Why would they get rid of him if his role was so darn big???? You think the nets don't want to win. You think that iverson didn't need a legitamte second scorer? KVH stunk up the joint wherever he went. He was one of those special players who actually gets worse the deeper his team gets into the playoffs. The guy needs people to help him score and defend and, he is no where near as unselfish as Latrell. How can you possibly associate this guy with a good basketball player. He is so dam NEEDY on the court. Believe KVH is an upgrade all you want, but you shouldn't call yourself a knick fan if you do.


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## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

*People who question his heart are wrong*

He is one of the leagues best offensive rebounders. You don't get to be a good offensive rebounder by having no heart.

I watched the Sixers during the playoff run, he got into foul trouble in the games he didn't play well. In the games he did play more, the Sixers always won and he usually led them in rebounds.

The Sixers were very predictable, you basically let AI shoot and take everyone else out of the game. AI is not going to beat you with his bad shooting percentage. Anybody who watched the Sixers last year knew that if KVH had a good game they were
almost unbeatable. 

Anybody who played the Sixers knew that if you took KVH out of the game they usually lost. I realized that KVH can be a frustrated player at times because he has so much ability. But he needs be in a position where he can succeed and needs to understand his role. Also, the team needs to get him some touches otherwise he doesn't get into any rythm.

It didn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the key to beating
the Sixers was to keep KVH on the bench and in foul trouble. The Sixers should have saw that strategy coming.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

KVH ruLes!!! :uhoh:


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

i wouldnt be surprised if the only thing keith was hidden under this year is the new york knicks bench. but watch it wont go all 82 games layden will find a way to get rid of van horn. yes he will. he will also find a way to get screwed in that deal


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Blah Blah*



> Originally posted by <b>benfica</b>!
> The fact is the Knicks stunk with Spree and KVH has played a BIG ROLE in winning organizations the past few years. He was one of the reasons that the Nets advanced to the finals and the Sixers went as far as they did.
> 
> KVH is a huge upgrade over Spree, he is a better offensive player, rebounder and defender. If he was as bad as you all say he wouldn't have been winning.
> ...


I just dont see your love with Van Horn.

I have had season tickets with the sixers. I know for the a fact the guy missed MORE ALLY-OOPS, and Layups that Iverson dished him it was a joke. The man cant finish strong. 

Spree is a better defender. Hands down. Id much rather have slow van horn gaurding me than Sprewell... 

Spree brings more of a overall offensive game anyway. PLEASE telling me that Van Horn has a better offensive game? Hahahaha.
All Van horn does is shoot j's when AI dished him, and when Kidd dished to him. He has barely any strong takes to the hole, that he actually finishes.

Yah, I liked van horn too. But hes disapointing. We all wish he was what we hope. He just isn't, and chokes.


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## Northpole (Aug 31, 2003)

Yeah he does seem to vanish but he's a good offensive rebounder which the Knicks had problems with last season. I'm just trying to be hopeful and booing him when he gets on the court is going to make him go away or play as he did in his early Nets years. But I'd like him better if he shortened his socks.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

the gm in NY is stupid. how do you get van horn for spree????
spree wanted to stay in new york fans and told the wolves fans that he wanted to stay in new york. of course he was out of position, but he could make up for being out of position. anywayz it was for the best of the team.
why stay with spree when you know that with him you wont win a championship. in a couple years, the knicks will have one of the best lineups in the league.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

No, were going to trade Lampe and Sweetney to Utah for Matt Harpring, and we'll keep getting worse until we become the first team to lose all 82 games.


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## Positive Role Model (May 31, 2003)

(Didn't like how I arranged this post...deleted...)


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