# 2004 Draft Goods and Bads



## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

There is obviously many good and bad picks made by NBA teams each year in the annual draft but I have made a list of the players who I believe will succeed and become good pro's and those who will fail and fall out of the league in time.

Good Picks

Emeka Okafor - Connecticut Junior
Jameer Nelson - St Joseph's Senior
Josh Smith - Smyrna GA HS Senior
Martynas Andriuskevicius - Lithuania
Rafael Araujo - BYU Senior
Hakim Warrick - Syracuse Sophmore
Luke Jackson - Oregon Senior
Kosta Perovic - Yugoslavia
Jamie Lloreda - LSU Senior
Romain Sato - Xavier Senior
Blake Stepp - Gonzaga Senior

Questionable

Dwight Howard - Atlanta GA HS Senior
Shaun Livingston - Peoria IL HS Senior
Andris Beidrins - Latvia
Ivan Chieriaev - Russia
Sergei Monya - Russia
Al Jefferson - Prentiss MS HS Senior 
Anderson Varejao - Brazil
Arthur Johnson - Missouri Senior

Bad Picks

Pavel Podkolzine - Russia
Ha Seung-Jin - Korea
LaMarcus Aldridge - Dallas TX HS Senior
Darius Rice - Miami Senior
Ricky Paulding - Missouri Senior
Marcus Moore - Washington State Senior
Tim Pickett - Florida State Senior
Chris Duhon - Duke Senior

Not sure if they are declaring just yet...

Good

Luol Deng - Duke Freshman
Andre Iguodala - Arizona Sophmore
Julius Hodge - NC State Junior
Josh Childress - Stanford Junior
Marvin Williams - Bremerton WA HS Senior
Kris Humphries - Minnesota Freshman
Ike Diogu - Arizona State Sophmore
Devin Harris - Wisconsin Junior

Bad

Rashad McCants - North Carolina Sophmore
Salim Stoudamire - Arizona Junior

Anyone agree/disagree???


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Anyone agree/disagree???


I dont know anything about USA players , but about Europeans I can say a word.

Martynas Andriuskevicius - good pick - agree, but he wont play next season, if he would he would be a bad pick. I mean he needs to stay in Europe for now.

Kosta Perovic - good pick - disagree - I put him on questionable. If hes going to play next season to NBA, hes a bust. He also need to gain some improvoment in Europe first.

Andris Biedrins - questionable - disagree - Hes a good pick. Just dont let Larry Brown take him 

Sergey Monia - questionable - agree. He and Khriapa for me sounds like couple of Diaw and Pietrus. Just these two are defensive type, while russians more offensive type.

Anderson Varejao - questionable - agree, I dont know what to expect from this guy. In offense he looks soft, but can grab few rebs. If Zaza Pachulia is doing allright (as I heard somewhere), Varejao can try too.

Ivan Chiraev - questionable - DISAGREE, the guy is getting big advertisiment by his mouth, not by his play. Hes nothing. Some say he has potential... blah, of course his agent told so and you are buying it as a true words...

Pavel Podkolzin - bad pick - disagree, Im puting him as questionable. Hes never gonna be an All-Star, but Muresan type of player, which is not that bad.


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## falsestart (Jan 23, 2004)

Where is Khryapa?
He is definetly good pick. Great combination of effort in defence and team play in offence. He's also great shotblocker and dunker. But still he plays worse than Kirilenko did in 00-01 season(just before moving in NBA)

Sergey Monya shows promise, but his progress is slower than Khryapa's


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Right now I think all the Europeans and highschoolers are question marks. Europe seems to only let players with seniority play. So most of these young guys only play in practice.

Why do you think Chris Duhon is a bad pick? Note that you will be citing your points to someone who has seen well over a dozen of his games this year.


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

Nelson i disagree on he is a bad pick way to short and not a real point guard for his height. 

Duhon is going to be a great pick for who ever picks him, he has been the leader of a great college team and has played for a coach that stresses team play over the individual. He will be the steal of the draft in the middle to late 2nd round. 

The Europeans will be good picks unless Detroit takes one of them and Brown is still the coach.


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## pr0wler (Jun 8, 2003)

ivan chiriaev is terrible.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChitwoodStyle</b>!
> Nelson i disagree on he is a bad pick way to short and not a real point guard for his height.


Anyone that watches basketball and has seen and covered St. Josephs knows that he is a real Point Guard. This statement is so ridiculous its bad. Long story short. His scoring has gone up every year because of neccessity. Wow total misinformed judgement


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Duhon = good pick.


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

No Nelson is not a real point guard, he has very good ball handling skills, but isn't would be better off being at least 4 inches taller and playing off the ball. If he was taller he would be the best player in college he has the quickness, drive, however he is more of an off guard than true point.
I have watched St. Joe's and West is much more impressive an all out hustle defensive player with a deadly stroke.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

Nelson is a real point guard, but he scores because he has to, well not even because he has to but because nobody can guard him in College basketball. 

Hey Critic no mention of Sebastian Telfair? where would you put him?

I think he's a good pick, so many think he won't play at all next year, but I think he would be a solid back up his rookie year. So many people think he is a shoot first point guard but that is far from the case. I admit he was this type of a player before this summer. I once labeled him as an Allen Iverson type, a shoot first player who can deliver the pin point pass at any moment, but his game has evolved into a pass first player who can score 30.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

Livingston would definetly not be a bad pick. After watching him play you have to think Penny in a Magic uniform. He's going to be a great NBA player. He should be a high lottery pick. He can run the floor and will learn to shoot the ball. With some work in the weight room and some NBA seasoning he'll be ready to go.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *pr0wler!*
> ivan chiriaev is terrible.


While I have never seen him play, I am from the region near Toronto where he plays high-school ball, so the papers are filled with news about him

While just about every article questions whether his game is ready for the NBA, it does praise this young 7footer that has point guard skills............a 7footer with a handle and that russian offensive game could hardly be called terrible, but like I said, I have never seen him play!


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

no way DUHON is a bad pick. :no:


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChitwoodStyle</b>!
> No Nelson is not a real point guard, he has very good ball handling skills, but isn't would be better off being at least 4 inches taller and playing off the ball. If he was taller he would be the best player in college he has the quickness, drive, however he is more of an off guard than true point.
> I have watched St. Joe's and West is much more impressive an all out hustle defensive player with a deadly stroke.


Yeah you are not really a good talent evaluator because hes already been most of the season the best player in college arguably and as I stated you obviously havent watched or followed him because if West is more impressive then this conversation is over. West could not do what he is doing with any other PG, Jameer opens up EVERYTHING for Delonte West. Sorry but its pretty evident you dont know what you are talking about


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

warrick is a jr, Darius RIce isnt a bad pick at wherever he's taken. No one is taking him in the lottery


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

Duhon is a good pick simply for fact that he'll be a good value when he goes late in the first or early in the second. Its true that he's slumped as far his shooting over the last two years, but he's outstanding at running a team. He also had his shot when he was a freshman, so it not like its impossible for him to get it back.


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## JazzMan (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Re: 2004 Draft Goods and Bads*



> Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont know anything about USA players , but about Europeans I can say a word.
> ...


Great post. Thanks for the info!


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## Kreamrush (Mar 24, 2004)

I wasn't planning on contributing to this thread but . . . 

Nelson not a point guard????? That is probably the most ludicrous thing i have seen posted. For some reason, these days people can't accept that a point guard who is athletic and can score is actually a point guard. Mark Jackson isn't the only point guard who ever played in the NBA. New age, effective 1's are guys that open up the floor with their ability to penetrate and shoot the 3 which is what Nelson excels at. Do yourself a favor and watch him dominate Chris Paul this weekend.


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kreamrush</b>!
> Do yourself a favor and watch him dominate Chris Paul this weekend.


Cant wait for this matchup :yes: 

Chris Paul Vs Jameer Nelson


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

McCants would be a terrific pick. If he enters he's by far the best scorer in the draft.

I think hakim warrick is lock as a bust.

Podkolzine, seung-jin, aldridge, paulding, pickett and duhon are all at least questionable.

Deng is questionable at best, definitely not good. Same goes for kris humphries. If my team picked humphries id shoot myself.

Salim stoudemire is amazing, you clearly havent seen him play.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>silverpaw1786</b>!
> McCants would be a terrific pick. If he enters he's by far the best scorer in the draft.
> 
> I think hakim warrick is lock as a bust.
> ...


HOw can you expect posters to take you seriously when you say Hakim Warrick is a lock to be a bust when you give no reasonings as to why, yet then you go a say Salim Stoudamire is amazing yet he never shows up in big games and consistently throws up 2-16 nights and hes not going to be a SG in the NBA


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## :TorontoRaptors: (May 25, 2003)

*Re: Re: 2004 Draft Goods and Bads*



> Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!
> Ivan Chiraev - questionable - DISAGREE, the guy is getting big advertisiment by his mouth, not by his play. Hes nothing. Some say he has potential... blah, of course his agent told so and you are buying it as a true words...


Thanks for your input, genius. But that's far from correct. 

Ivan may come off as a kid with a giant ego, but he's a very good kid... and his game is really amazing. Having seen him more then a dozen times this season, I'd say he's far from "nothing".

He's got the skills to be a perrenial all-star and one of the greatest European players of all-time.

Considering you've never seen him play, I'd say your little report on him has no credibility. Ivan's achieved a lot over the last year and a half, going from a poor child in St. Petersburg to a top NBA prospect.

If he were an American kid from Alabama... nobody would say a word... especially if he was caucasion.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Hakim warrick doesn't play good defense like his reputation would have you believe. he has one of the worst shots in the draft and has limited handle. Also hasn't shown a bit of improvement since last year.

Salim Stoudemire is only getting better at this point. A streaky shooter, when he's on he can win a game by himself.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>silverpaw1786</b>!
> Hakim warrick doesn't play good defense like his reputation would have you believe. he has one of the worst shots in the draft and has limited handle. Also hasn't shown a bit of improvement since last year.
> 
> Salim Stoudemire is only getting better at this point. A streaky shooter, when he's on he can win a game by himself.


umm Hakim's defense is what has gotten him major praise this season and his handle is more than adequate. Its his shot that has not improbed as much as it should have been. So you saying he has shown no improvement since last year is anotheer knock on your credibility because even his biggest detractors say that hes improved in all other areas except his Jump shot.

Salim getting better. Have you watch Arizona at all this season? I would rather have salim Stoudamire of Last year than the one I saw this year.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ChitwoodStyle</b>!
> No Nelson is not a real point guard, he has very good ball handling skills, but isn't would be better off being at least 4 inches taller and playing off the ball. If he was taller he would be the best player in college he has the quickness, drive, however he is more of an off guard than true point.
> I have watched St. Joe's and West is much more impressive an all out hustle defensive player with a deadly stroke.


You need to watch film of Jameer when he was a Freshman.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> .
> 
> Good Picks
> ...


Araujo from what I have seen, is nothing special. He vanishes at times and gets into foul trouble alot. Scouts I think are focused more on his body, because he can bang with the big guys.

Stepp, will not fit in to the NBA. Dickau was a much better player, Stepp won't be able to keep up with NBA PG's.

Howard and Livingston are Questionable this year, because they need just a little bit of development, but next year they will be a good pick. projects for now.

Duhon is a good pick, leader on the court, intense D and can even hit the long range jumper. Rice doesn't get the credit he deserves, Rice is a 1st rounder IMO. He would be a great bench player for any team in the NBA.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Charlotte_______</b>!
> 
> 
> You need to watch film of Jameer when he was a Freshman.


Forget his freshman year, look at him now. Hes clearly in control and directing and leading and leading players to certain spot on the floor so that they are in position to make baskets that fit them, hes just scoring at a higher clip out of neccesity. I wonder if he even knows what a true or real PG is, because everything I have just decscribed is a PG’s responsibility.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

Marcus Moore is a great pick because he is going to get drafted in the secound round.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

I said he has a reputation for playing good D. I also said that reputation is false. I am completely aware of what "people are saying" about Hakim. I'm also aware that the rumors are false. athleticism doesn't always mean good defense.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>silverpaw1786</b>!
> I said he has a reputation for playing good D. I also said that reputation is false. I am completely aware of what "people are saying" about Hakim. I'm also aware that the rumors are false. athleticism doesn't always mean good defense.


Where in my post have I mentioned athleticism. He plays in the big east. Everyone hes played against this season he has absolutely shut them down and is an amazing help defender. Also he gave Okafor all he could handle the last time they played so you still have not given me specific reasons, except the normal excuses but at least I have seen others attempt to back up what they were saying


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

Duhon is a great college and especially Duke point guard. He's tough, a terrific defender, and a good leader.

Unfortunately, he simply can't shoot. He's not devestating off the dribble, and isn't a consistent scorer by any means. There's a difference between a point guard who doesn't score, and one who can't score. Duhon is in the "can't" score category.

Duke has a long line of guys who were very successful in college as PG's, and are now sitting next to coach K on the bench as assistants, and I'm afraid that is where Duhon is headed as well (Chris Collins, Johny Dawkins, Wojo, etc - all who were better in college than Duhon by the way).

Jayson Williams was a much, much better player in college than Duhon, and even he struggled in the bit of NBA action he saw before the injury ... the track record, and Duhon's skillset simply say he's destined for a couple years of limited bench play and then a coaching job at the college level (where he will probably be pretty good)


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> Nelson is a real point guard, but he scores because he has to, well not even because he has to but because nobody can guard him in College basketball.
> 
> Hey Critic no mention of Sebastian Telfair? where would you put him?


Sebastian Telfair would be a good pick as well. He definately has the talent, skill, speed and smarts to be a fine NBA point...but I think he will be going to Louisville like he's said. He will be a high first rounder whenever he does declare though.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>knickstorm</b>!
> warrick is a jr, Darius RIce isnt a bad pick at wherever he's taken. No one is taking him in the lottery


Yes...your right...Warrick is a Junior...my bad.

And yes...I cant see Rice getting drafted in the lottery or first round....IF AT ALL!


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>silverpaw1786</b>!
> McCants would be a terrific pick. If he enters he's by far the best scorer in the draft.
> 
> I think hakim warrick is lock as a bust.
> ...


I actually have seen him play... Sat in the front row of three games he was playing in to tell you the truth. He played well in those games but I think he fed off his team mates dominance and just hit the open shots he was given. A game that I saw here in Australia where Arizona were touring last year...Salim caught and scored off one of the best passes I have ever seen. The passer...Luke Walton. Man that guy can pass for a forward!
Anyway...back to the subject....Salim Stoudamire...

As for why I dont think he will be a good pro...

Sure he's a great shooter...but he cant create his shot...and he would need to in the NBA. He's also probably a little too short to play off guard in the league...He wont be playing point so I really dont like his chances.
But!!! Thats just my opinion right.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

*Re: Re: 2004 Draft Goods and Bads*



> Originally posted by <b>Charlotte_______</b>!
> 
> 
> Araujo from what I have seen, is nothing special. He vanishes at times and gets into foul trouble alot. Scouts I think are focused more on his body, because he can bang with the big guys.
> ...


I have seen Araujo play a number of times and I was very impressed by his size and intensity along with his surprising touch around the hoop. I was also very impressed with how he sets picks for his guards and when and how to roll off the contact and seal. Sure...he is raw.... and I agree that he has alot of work to do...but how often does a 6-11 290 pound player come out of college who loves physical contact like this guy does? He's a BEAST and would most probably be every bit as strong as any front court player in the league..Rafael is going to LOVE bashing around with Shaq and co. He's a project but he's a project with a whole lot of upside.

As for your comment on Stepp. I think he's every bit as good a player as Dickau was. In fact...I think he may even be a little smarter. You say he wouldnt be quick enough to keep up with NBA PG's?....I never said he was quick...but do you have to have jets to survive in the NBA these days??

Hmmm...What about that another Gonzaga Allumni John Stockton? Was he a bullet?? I dont think so!!!
He does however (as you all know) hold the record for the most Assists and Steals in the great league right? He is undoubtedly in the best handful of Points to play the game ever. Speed never stopped him...
Speed never stopped Larry Bird either right?
Stepp has a great Basketball IQ and that will in my opinion get him into the pro's and hopefully do well. He's an old fashioned warrior and his guts, determination and work ethic will take him along way.
Anyone??


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

IF he declares

Good pick - Jarrett Jack :yes:


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## Kreamrush (Mar 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> IF he declares
> 
> Good pick - Jarrett Jack :yes:


pretty cool name too.

anyone else notice how many similarities there are between jack and marbury, at least aesthetically?

interesting point on jack: he is duhon's cousin, those are genes i'd like to fit into.

Jack is athletic and always a danger to score a ton of points. Great game against kansas but i think he really needs to prove himself playing against tony allen and john lucas


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

> Great game against kansas but i think he really needs to prove himself playing against tony allen and john lucas


Because hitting the game winning jumper against UNC (and Raymond Felton) in the ACC tournament, or outplaying Duhon at Cameron Indoor as GT walked out with a win, or handling Chris Paul or any of his other terrific one on one matchups already this year didn't prove anything?

Everyone in the ACC already knew last year that he was a terrific young guard, and this year he played every night against the best guards in the country (christ the ACC was so deep at that position) and kept his team under control. Hopefully he flies under the national radar for a bit longer and stays one more year in school, which is what he should do.

GT wasn't nicknamed Point Guard U. for nothing ^.^


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

rashad mccants will be a great pick for anyone who picks him up late first or early second. he is more athletic than mobley and also a better shooter, plays better D and can get to the basket easier. mccants will be a starten sg in the leauge for years thats for sure


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> rashad mccants will be a great pick for anyone who picks him up late first or early second. he is more athletic than mobley and also a better shooter, plays better D and can get to the basket easier. mccants will be a starten sg in the leauge for years thats for sure


Im not so sure. Mobley can start in the West and if you notice he is the only 6'4 SG out there because of having Franchise next to him and Ming behind him. That being said Mccants handle is no where near ready for the league and he would have to improve that by leaps and bounds to be able to be a starter in the league


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