# Day... Daay-Oh! Deadline come an' me wanna go home - Sheed Moved Again!



## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

*T-Minus 2 Hours - First Deals Done!*

Utah sends G Deshawn Stevenson to Orlando for G Gordon Giricek.

Utah sends F/C Keon Clark along with C Ben Handglogten to Phoenix for F Tom Gugliota and two first round picks


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

Orlando sends G Shammond Williams to New Orleans for C Sean Rooks


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> Orlando sends G Shammond Williams to New Orleans for C Sean Rooks


My god, Shammond is quickly becoming the next Chucky Brown/Chris Gatling.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Reported this earlier...why don't we merge the threads and just call it the Trade Deadline Day Thread...

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79280&forumid=27


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

*DEADLINE DEALS SINCE 1987*

*Feb. 20, 2003*

BOSTON traded Shammond Williams, a 2003 second-round draft pick and cash cash considerations to DENVER for Mark Blount and Mark Bryant.

NEW ORLEANS traded Elden Campbell to SEATTLE for Kenny Anderson and cash considerations.

SEATTLE traded Gary Payton and Desmond Mason to MILWAUKEE for Ray Allen, Kevin Ollie, Ronald Murray, and either a 2003 first-round draft pick or two 2003 second-round draft picks. 

*Feb. 21, 2002 (Two trades involving nine players)*

DALLAS traded Juwan Howard, Donnell Harvey, Tim Hardaway, a 2002 first round draft pick and cash consideration to DENVER in exchange for Nick Van Exel, Avery Johnson, Tariq Abdul-Wahad and Raef LaFrentz. 

GOLDEN STATE traded Marc Jackson to MINNESOTA in exchange for Dean Garrett and Minnesota's 2007 second-round draft pick. 

*Feb. 22, 2001 (Four trades involving 22 players)*

ATLANTA traded C Dikembe Mutombo and F Roshown McLeod to PHILADELPHIA in exchange for C Theo Ratliff, F Toni Kukoc, C Nazr Mohammed and G Pepe Sanchez. 

TORONTO traded G Mark Jackson and G Muggsy Bogues to NEW YORK in exchange for G Chris Childs and the Knicks' lottery-protected first-round pick. 

WASHINGTON traded F Juwan Howard, C Obinna Ekezie and F Calvin Booth to DALLAS for F Christian Laettner, F Loy Vaught, F Etan Thomas, G Hubert Davis and G Courtney Alexander. 

TORONTO traded F Corliss Williamson, F Tyrone Corbin, F Kornel David and a first-round pick to DETROIT for F Jerome Williams and C Eric Montross. 

*Feb. 24, 2000 (One trade involving one player)*

ATLANTA traded G Anthony Johnson to ORLANDO in exchange for a conditional second-round draft choice. 

*March 11, 1999 (Five trades involving 18 players)*

CLEVELAND traded F/C Vitaly Potapenko to BOSTON in exchange for F/C Andrew Declercq and a conditional 1999 first round draft pick. 

HOUSTON traded G/F Rodrick Rhodes to VANCOUVER in exchange for G/F Sam Mack. 

NEW YORK traded a conditional first round draft pick to PHILADELPHIA for the draft rights to F Mirsad Turkcan. 

PHILADELPHIA traded F Tim Thomas and F/C Scott Williams to MILWAUKEE in exchange for F Tyrone Hill and G/F Jerald Honeycutt. 

MILWAUKEE traded G Terrell Brandon to MINNESOTA and G Elliot Perry to NEW JERSEY in exchange for NEW JERSEY trading G Sam Cassell and F/C Chris Gatling to MILWAUKEE and F Brian Evans and future draft considerations to MINNESOTA in exchange for MINNESOTA trading G Chris Carr, F Bill Curley and G Stephon Marbury to NEW JERSEY and C Paul Grant to MILWAUKEE. 

*Feb. 19, 1998 (Four trades involving 13 players)*

CHICAGO traded F Jason Caffey to GOLDEN STATE in exchange for F/C David Vaughn and 1998 and 2000 second-round draft picks. 

L.A. CLIPPERS traded G Brent Barry to MIAMI in exchange for C Isaac Austin, G Charles Smith and a conditional 1998 first-round draft pick. 

NEW YORK traded F Ronnie Grandison and C Herb Williams to PHILADELPHIA in exchange for F Terry Cummings. 

NEW JERSEY traded F David Benoit, C Yinka Dare and G Kevin Edwards to ORLANDO in exchange for C Rony Seikaly and F Brian Evans. 

*Feb. 20, 1997 (Six trades involving 15 players)*

CHARLOTTE acquired F Ricky Pierce from DENVER for C George Zidek and G Anthony Goldwire. 

TORONTO acquired G Shawn Respert from MILWAUKEE for C Acie Earl. 

DENVER acquired G Jerome Allen from INDIANA for F Darvin Ham. 

GOLDEN STATE acquired G/F Scott Burrell from CHARLOTTE for F Donald Royal. 

INDIANA acquired G Mark Jackson and F/C LaSalle Thompson from DENVER for G/F Vincent Askew, F Eddie Johnson and second-round draft picks in 1997 and 1998. 

LAKERS acquired F George McCloud from NEW JERSEY in exchange for C Joe Kleine, a 1997 first-round pick and a conditional second-round pick. 

*Feb. 22, 1996 (Six trades involving 19 players)*

ATLANTA acquired F Christian Laettner and C Sean Rooks from MINNESOTA in exchange for G Spud Webb and C Andrew Lang. 

TORONTO acquired F Sharone Wright from PHILADELPHIA in exchange for C Ed Pinckney, F Tony Massenburg, the right to swap first-round draft picks in 1996 or 1997 and a second-round option. 

PHOENIX acquired G Terrence Rencher from MIAMI in exchange for G Tony Smith. 

MIAMI acquired G Tim Hardaway and F Chris Gatling from GOLDEN STATE in exchange for F Kevin Willis and G Bimbo Coles. 

MIAMI acquired F Walt Williams and F Tyrone Corbin from SACRAMENTO in exchange for F Billy Owens and G Kevin Gamble. 

ORLANDO acquired F Kenny Gattison and a 1996 second-round draft pick from VANCOUVER in exchange for F Jeff Turner. 

*Feb. 23, 1995 (One trade involving two players)*

DALLAS acquired G Scott Brooks from HOUSTON in exchange for G Morlon Wiley and a 1995 second-round draft pick. 

*Feb. 24, 1994 (Four trades involving eight players)*

CHARLOTTE acquired F Frank Brickowski and a conditional first-round draft pick from MILWAUKEE in exchange for C Mike Gminksi. 

ATLANTA acquired F Danny Manning from the L.A. CLIPPERS in exchange for F Dominique Wilkins and a 1994 or 1995 conditional first-round draft pick. 

LAKERS acquired F Danny Schayes from MILWAUKEE in exchange for a 1995 conditional second-round draft pick. 

UTAH acquired G Jeff Hornacek, G Sean Green and a 1995 or 1996 second-round draft pick from PHILADELPHIA in exchange for G Jeff Malone and a 1994 conditional first-round draft pick. 

*Feb. 25, 1993 (Two trades involving three players)*

CHICAGO acquired F Ed Nealy from GOLDEN STATE in exchange for a 2001 conditional second-round draft pick. 

MILWAUKEE acquired F Orlando Woolridge from DETROIT in exchange for G Alvin Robertson. 

*Feb. 20, 1992 (One trade involving two players)*

NEW YORK acquired C James Donaldson from DALLAS in exchange for F Brian Quinnett. 

*Feb. 20, 1991 (One trade involving two players)*

SEATTLE acquired C Benoit Benjamin from the L.A. CLIPPERS in exchange for C Olden Polynice, a 1991 first-round draft pick and a 1993 or 1994 first-round draft pick. 

*Feb. 22, 1990 (Five trades involving seven players)*

SAN ANTONIO acquired C Uwe Blab from GOLDEN STATE in exchange for C Christian Welp. 

CLIPPERS acquired G Winston Garland from GOLDEN STATE in exchange for two future second-round draft picks. 

NEW YORK acquired C Stuart Gray from CHARLOTTE in exchange for a 1991 second-round draft pick. 

CHARLOTTE acquired Randolph Keys from CLEVELAND in exchange for a future second-round draft pick. 

MINNESOTA acquired F Brad Sellers from SEATTLE in exchange for Steve Johnson and a 1991 second-round draft pick. 

*Feb. 23, 1989 (Two trades involving five players)*

NEW YORK acquired F Kiki Vandeweghe from PORTLAND in exchange for a 1989 first-round draft pick. 

BOSTON acquired C Joe Kleine and F Ed Pinckney from SACRAMENTO in exchange for G Danny Ainge and F Brad Lohaus. 

*Feb. 25, 1988 (Three trades involving nine players)*

PHOENIX acquired G Kevin Johnson, F Tyrone Corbin, C Mark West, 1988 first and second-round draft picks and a 1989 second-round draft pick from CLEVELAND in exchange for F Larry Nance, F Mike Sanders and a 1988 second-round draft pick. 

MILWAUKEE acquired G Jay Humphries from PHOENIX in exchange for G Craig Hodges and a 1988 second-round draft pick. 

SEATTLE acquired G Sedale Threatt from CHICAGO in exchange for G Sam Vincent. 

*Feb. 15, 1987 (One trade involving one player)*

CHICAGO acquired F Ben Poquette from CLEVELAND in exchange for a future second-round draft pick.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

NBA.com 2003-04 Trade Recap:
http://www.nba.com/features/trade_recap_0304.html


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

WDFN in Detroit has confirmed from Joe D that the pistons have sent chucky atkins, zelly rebraca, bob sura and lindsey hunter for rasheed wallace and mike james. Its a 3 team trade so I don't know exactly who boston and the hawks get.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> WDFN in Detroit has confirmed from Joe D that the pistons have sent chucky atkins, zelly rebraca, bob sura and lindsey hunter for rasheed wallace and mike james. Its a 3 team trade so I don't know exactly who boston and the hawks get.


Chad Ford just confirmed. He is awaiting the additional names, too.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Sheed deal is DONE.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Great!Wonderful! You know what FU Paxson!


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

This is what I'm talking about, GM's like Isiah, Joe D know what they need to do and they get it done...

Meanwhile we're sitting around waiting for something to fall in our laps, that doesn't work, plain and simple.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I didn't think Sheed could be traded again as part of a package, but would have to be traded 1-to-1 straight up?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Great!Wonderful! You know what FU Paxson!


Wow I'm still laughing...

I'm envisioning you cussing at the screen, slamming your keyboard, kind of like that video of the worker who goes nuts when his comp messes up...

I'm right there with you...

WE SUCK.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I still say it's better to make no trade at all rather than make a bad trade.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> I didn't think Sheed could be traded again as part of a package, but would have to be traded 1-to-1 straight up?


He's the only player leaving Atlanta, that's all the criteria that needs to be met in order for him to be traded.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> I didn't think Sheed could be traded again as part of a package, but would have to be traded 1-to-1 straight up?


TB#1, he can be traded again as long as he's the only player on his team traded.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> I didn't think Sheed could be traded again as part of a package, but would have to be traded 1-to-1 straight up?


He himself can't be packaged, as in the Hawks can't send out another player with him. The other teams can trade back however many they want.


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## rowdyness (Jan 21, 2004)

C's better not have given up Mills in this trade. If they did Ainge is a fool. !!


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> I still say it's better to make no trade at all rather than make a bad trade.


I agree with that, but at the same time I don't think Pax is really looking to strike gold...he seems more like he's waiting for something to come to him...

We could do a "small" trade and bring in a Gerald Wallace or a Bostjan Nachbar...

Those kind of deals can end up being Jermaine O'Neal type deals...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Yeah I am very upset arenas. And I have been one of the biggest supporters of Paxson around here. But enough is enough. I really thought he was serious about trying to improve this team. Apparently he isn't. Darn shame.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rowdyness</b>!
> C's better not have given up Mills in this trade. If they did Ainge is a fool. !!


It was reported Mills went to Atlanta...


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

YEAH, FIRE PAX!!!


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Yeah I am very upset arenas. And I have been one of the biggest supporters of Paxson around here. But enough is enough. I really thought he was serious about trying to improve this team. Apparently he isn't. Darn shame.


With friends like these, who need enemies......


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

In another note, I think John Gabriel is trying real hard to get fired...

and I'm sure he's set a record for most insignificant trades in one season...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Well you guys just be happy with the team the way it is. Pardon me for being pissed off about being 16-38 and not doing a darn thing to try and change things.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I wonder how much a Rasheed Hawks jersey would be worth?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Joe Dumars is a genius

He gets Rasheed and Mike James for a bunch of nothing.

The Pistons new lineup:
1- Billups, James
2- Rip
3- R Wallace, Prince
4- B Wallace, Williamson
5- Okur, Campbell

They'll pick up a spare SG somewhere and go to the finals.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Well you guys just be happy with the team the way it is. Pardon me for being pissed off about being 16-38 and not doing a darn thing to try and change things.


There's not much we can do to improve with 20-something games left in the season. And there's always the offseason.


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## Rodman (Feb 5, 2004)

I'm with you Basghetti it's BS to do nothing, at the other hand just trade to trade is maybe even more horrible.
Look at what Ainge is doing, when I look at that I say thank God we don't do anything. But yes it's disappointing, surely there must be another way then signing some guys from the CBA and NDBL and even there, Pax seems to be the one who doesn't like to take a chance. Hey we could have signed Dermarr Johnson and look what he can do with a lot more talent then Dupree...


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Here's the Sheed deal...

No one can tell me we couldn't have been a part of this...

Boston gets: Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter and the Pistons first round pick this year.

Detroit gets: Rasheed Wallace and Mike James

Atlanta gets: Chris Mills, Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura and the Bucks first round pick owed to Detroit.


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## Lusty RaRue (Sep 9, 2003)

The Phoenix - Utah deal appears to be yet another deal by the Sun to lower its' luxury tax burden. Utah with its' cap space cleaned up on that one.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

So who got Sheed?



> he only question regarding Rasheed Wallace's future with the Knicks is when he will join the team, not if he will, according to a person close to Wallace.
> 
> Wallace, a talented yet controversial 6-foot-11 forward, is so intent on playing for the Knicks that he is willing to turn down millions of dollars from other teams, the person said.
> 
> ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/19/sports/basketball/19WALL.html


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## Rodman (Feb 5, 2004)

*OT Sheed to Pistons done deal*

Here's the details: 

Boston gets: Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter and the Pistons first round pick this year. 

Detroit gets: Rasheed Wallace and Mike James 

Atlanta gets: Chris Mills, Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura and the Bucks first round pick owed to Detroit.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
> And there's always the offseason.


I like you D, and no offense...

BUT...

Your quote exemplifies the problem with this organization and many of our fans...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> They'll pick up a spare SG somewhere and go to the finals.


jamal?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Here's the Sheed deal...
> 
> No one can tell me we couldn't have been a part of this...
> ...


God! Atlanta will really, really suck! 

Rumor has it that Terry could be had, right now. Don't know how he would fit out team.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Well you guys just be happy with the team the way it is. Pardon me for being pissed off about being 16-38 and not doing a darn thing to try and change things.


Just curious -- what do you think our record would be if 1. Tyson had put on 15 pounds of muscle in the offseason and not wrenched his back and 2. Eddy Curry hadn't started the season as The Blob?

I bet we'd have another 8-10 wins, which would put us at a pretty decent pace, and in line with the curve of progress we expected.

So our crap record may be a bit deceiving in terms of being a reflection of the talent level on a moving forward basis. Would I like to see a monster trde that turns us into instant contenders? Hell, yes. But as I stated in other threads, I'm not going to blame Pax for not biting on a garbage trade just for the sake of "getting something done." It doesn't look like other teams wanted to deal with the Bulls fair and square (typical since as a basement team, we're not exactly n the drivers seat), so Pax is sitting pat and waiting for the offseason.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I like you D, and no offense...
> ...


But actually he is right. There is nothing that we can do right now that will improve the team, drastically, unless you want to clear this ship of everyone. If so, then there has to be a team/teams that want them and we cannot do like Atlanta is doing. No way.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

I don't know if the Utah trades are being talked about elsewhere, but what went on there? Do the Jazz plan on making Giricek their 2 guard for the future? Does this take them out of the Q and Jamal running? And what did Phoenix do? They gave up two first rounders, and as far as I understand, they have added salary to essentially take them out of the Kobe running. Or am I just really mistaken about things?


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

The NBA needs to step in and take the Hawks over... that organization has run that franchise into the ground. They aren't trying to be competitive at all.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Wow, Boston just traded away a very decent point guard for... Chucky Atkins? Lindsey Hunter, and a pick? That's all they could buy with Mills' expiring contract?

I'm pretty sure Ainge is the worst GM in the league. Mike James has been playing great ball for them all season long, sometimes stepping up to single-handedly win games in the fourth.

They essentially got back no real talent at all.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> Just curious -- what do you think our record would be if 1. Tyson had put on 15 pounds of muscle in the offseason and not wrenched his back and 2. Eddy Curry hadn't started the season as The Blob?
> ...


Exactly! 

I would be against, just any trade. It does look like John is not going to give away any of our players.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> So our crap record may be a bit deceiving in terms of being a reflection of the talent level on a moving forward basis.


Bill Parcells said it best...

"You are what you are"

We ARE 16-38...

We ARE bad...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I am not asking for something to drastically make this team better just something minor like guard depth so we can stop playing JC and Kirk 40 minutes a game and killing them. We have Fizer as an expiring contract. A lot of teams want capspace. You can't tell me we could not get a decent guard or two. Sorry I want to see a GM trying not one who is content with our record.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Atlanta is blowing it up and starting over now...

Why continue to suck and stand pat?

We're in the same position as them, but they're getting draft picks and cap space to try and turn it around...

We have neither.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I like you D, and no offense...
> ...


What is Pax supposed to do, make a trade just to make one?!!! Seriuosly, what do we have to offer that another team would want to take? 

The only tradeable assests on this team are Hinrich, Curry, Chandler and Crawford. And, you know that we wouldn't get fair value for any of those guys, thus getting fleeced in the process. You guys keep raving about Isiah and what he's doing in NY. But, their payroll is at 97million and they traded away young prospects and expering contracts for good players with bad salaries.


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

Could it possibly be that there is no deal out there? Some of you need to learn a little patience. We won 6 titles in the 90's, it could take a while to get back to that level.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> I am not asking for something to drastically make this team better just something minor like guard depth so we can stop playing JC and Kirk 40 minutes a game and killing them. We have Fizer as an expiring contract. A lot of teams want capspace. You can't tell me we could not get a decent guard or two. Sorry I want to see a GM trying not one who is content with our record.


I'm with you Bas...

Look we all know what this team has needed all year, a SF and a real backup PG...

We've gone out and gotten neither...

A lot of teams are looking for cap space, there's NO reason we can't take Fizer, who we're not playing at all, and turn that into someone that we need and actually will put on the floor.

You use that to get what you want, put yourself in the driver's seat...

Pax is learning on the job, and the organization is going to suffer for that.

But hey there's always the offseason!!!!!

Maybe we'll use our money on worthless vets again!

That's the track record, why expect different all of a sudden????

Pax has made some mistakes, now its time to atone for those mistakes.

It's time to say ok, this is what I need, let me go get it...

I'm fine with us not being in the playoffs, let's just kill that talk, but I'm not fine with being the same team, actually worse, than we were last year and not making ANY steps to get out of it.

Stop making excuses for Pax and acting like his hands are tied, Isiah's been working with MUCH worse and less time...


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

We blew up the team 6 years ago. To do it again is not an option!


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
> 
> 
> What is Pax supposed to do, make a trade just to make one?!!! Seriuosly, what do we have to offer that another team would want to take?
> ...


D, come on..

Isiah has been working with guys who had the worse contracts in the league...

They're payroll hasn't changed the money values are the same, he's just brought in talent that is worth the money...

With as many teams talking about wanting cap space, you're crazy if youn don't think SOMEONE would have taken Fizer...

You have to make it happen, you can't wait on teams to approach you.

No one can tell me we couldn't have been a part of the 3 way deal that was just made.

We would have gotten a late first rd pick, which if we wanted to save money we could trade for a higher 2nd rd pick, and Atkins, a pretty damn good backup PG...

To whoever said we won 6 titles in the 90s, well this is 2004....

We haven't put a competetive team on the floor in 7 years...

Be patient?


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

Does anyone realize how scary Detroit is in the East now? Not only did they get Wallace, but Mike James has been a helluva player this year. He was better then Atkins and Hunter both.

You know, there has been a slight balance of power moving to the East during this NBA season with the deals that have been done.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Wait. Wait. I just re-read the trade.

Detroit is robbing EVERYONE in this deal.

Yes, they do sacrifice two first-rounders, but that's it? They unload a bunch of salary tied in players that don't really help them that much, and they get back a star that they can rent for a season, and a more than adequate backup PG to keep Chauncey fresh as they head into the playoffs. And they get to put Prince back on the bench, which is a GREAT place for him to be. Not that he's a bad starter, and he'll still be getting a bunch of minutes, but yeah... this team looks amazing.

I think this is going to spark a big time run for the Pistons. I'm on record to have them go 11 wins in the next 13 games.

Billups/Hamilton/R. Wallace/B. Wallace/Okur

James/Prince/Corliss/Campbell/Darko

Great starting lineup, huge frontcourt... maybe enough to compete with the Spurs or Kings or T'Wolves?

Certainly enough to keep up with New York or New Jersey or Indiana.

Sick deal for Detroit, seriously robbing everyone like that.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> Wow, Boston just traded away a very decent point guard for... Chucky Atkins? Lindsey Hunter, and a pick? That's all they could buy with Mills' expiring contract?
> 
> I'm pretty sure Ainge is the worst GM in the league. Mike James has been playing great ball for them all season long, sometimes stepping up to single-handedly win games in the fourth.
> ...


wow....I could not have written this better myself. You guys may have a worse record, but we are the worst team in the league. Anyone who argues is stupid. Ainge is the worst GM. Congrats, you guys just found yourself a new Bulls fan, they will be one of my new teams. I will not watch the C's again until Ainge is gone. Pathetic.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> D, come on..
> ...


*No one can tell me we couldn't have been a part of the 3 way deal that was just made.*

How do you know that John didn't try? How do you know if we even fit that criteria? For all we know he might have tried and the other teams refused.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Listen I am not asking for us to blow up ship just add pieces around these young kids. We are way too loaded upfront at PF and are very thin at guard. No reason Fizer along with Blount possibly could not have given us a decent guard. Instead we will continue to have Brunson and Dupree as our backup guards. Face it fellas these guys are cheap as hell.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

How in the world is Clark worth 2 first round picks? He is a FA, but so was Tom.

-Petey


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> Does anyone realize how scary Detroit is in the East now? Not only did they get Wallace, but Mike James has been a helluva player this year. He was better then Atkins and Hunter both.
> 
> You know, there has been a slight balance of power moving to the East during this NBA season with the deals that have been done.


I know! And this is the one guy that got away from Zeke. However, he is a FA this summer. Does he go to NY? Will be interesting.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> Does anyone realize how scary Detroit is in the East now? Not only did they get Wallace, but Mike James has been a helluva player this year. He was better then Atkins and Hunter both.
> 
> You know, there has been a slight balance of power moving to the East during this NBA season with the deals that have been done.


This deal really puts pressure on Isiah right now...

He needs to find a way to get that Dampier deal done..

I don't know but if Sheed has success in Detroit, I don't know what would stop him from taking their MLE and not going to NY...

I think NY people have feared that and that's why they either wanted him in a trade or wanted him to stay in Atlanta..

Man Eastern Conference Finals..

NY vs Detroit

That would be nice, maybe even epic...

Maybe this year we get a good NBA finals...

The Nets every year out the East just leads to YAWN..

Let me grab my broom.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> *No one can tell me we couldn't have been a part of the 3 way deal that was just made.*
> ...


TBF he didn't want to take Atkins!!

Read this morning's articles...

Let's start looking at facts and stop trying to make excuses..

We needed a backup PG, Detroit was looking for teams to take him off their hands...they need cap space, we have a guy with an expiring contract who DOES NOT PLAY...



They give us Atkins, we give them Fizer...

This isn't rocket science...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> I know! And this is the one guy that got away from Zeke. However, he is a FA this summer. Does he go to NY? Will be interesting.


See my quote from the NYtimes a page or too back.

He wants NY -- even for less money.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> TBF he didn't want to take Atkins!!
> ...


I am getting the facts straight ok?? Atkins, big deal. I am sure that Atkins was not just being shopped to us. 

I will will stop making excuses when you stop making wild accusations. Fair enough? 

You make it sound like all John has to do is say yes to every trade. There are two sides. Sometimes four or five teams lined up for the same player. 

But Detroit HAS to want Fizer! Just because there was talk, doesn't mean they really wanted him. In fact it looks that way now!


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> They give us Atkins, we give them Fizer...


...they don't get Sheed...


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> I am getting the facts straight ok?? Atkins, big deal. I am sure that Atkins was not just being shopped to us.
> ...


I've been clear about what I've been referring to, yes to every trade is stupid and hasn't even been implied in any of my posts...

We're not going to agree on it, so I'll drop it


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> ...they don't get Sheed...


Do you actually read posts before you respond?

If that would have happened, we would have been the 3rd team in the deal, so they do get Sheed...


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> TBF he didn't want to take Atkins!!
> ...


That is a much worse package than what Boston gave up in the trade. I wouldn't be surprised if Paxson tried to get Atkins but Detroit and Atlanta chose to deal with the Celtics instead.

Think about it. If Detroit loses Atkins they need a serviceable backup PG going back to them. Mike James is one, who would you send them that is as good as James? Rick Brunson? :laugh:

Also look at it from the Hawks perspective. Their GM is under orders from the owner to be cheaper than a bag of corn chips. They can trade for Mills whose contract is insured and costs them nothing, or they can trade for Fizer and have to pay him.

I understand your frustration but I think you are placing unreasonable expectations on Paxson, blaming him for not swinging deals that the other team would not have even agreed to. Just because you don't rip off another team doesn't mean you are a failure as a GM, be patient. You guys just didn't have the right pieces to swing these trades.


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## Lusty RaRue (Sep 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> How in the world is Clark worth 2 first round picks? He is a FA, but so was Tom.
> 
> -Petey


It's all about luxury tax avoidance/reduction.

Utah absorbed significant salary this year in this deal. This site can't update quick enough.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah.htm

Beginning with the trade for Barbosa which permitted the Marbury deal, they have gone from significantly over the tax level to avoiding it completely. I think.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Just because we need A backup pg, it doesn't mean Atkins was THE backup pg we needed. Hell, truth be told we need a starting caliber small forward far worse than anything else. The bottom line here gang is that Paxson should only do deals if they are the right deals. I would have loved for us to have gotten Giricek or even Deshawn Stevenson, but they liked the deals they had better than Fizer, thats that. 

I don't know how we would have gotten involved in that 3 way, did we want Sheed? No. Do we want to take on Chirs Mills big contract to add a couple of role players. No. There was no place in it for us. 

Yes, the Bulls are 16-38, but there are some reasons behind that. Tyson being out most of the season, Curry not being in great shape, change in coaches, change in players, Jamal playing more sg, etc... Yeah, those are excuses but that doesn't invalidate their merit. 

Sure, it would have been nice if Pax could have gotten something decent for Fizer but if he can't, he can't. No one should lose any sleep over it or be calling for his head. If teh right deal isn't out there then don't make any deals. Thats the art of the deal.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> TBF he didn't want to take Atkins!!
> ...


Hey guess what?

Chucky Atkins SUCKS.

He had one good year, the year the Pistons made their way back to the top of the East. He shot a great % that year, but didn't have great numbers overall, considering he was starting.

He's a career 41.4% shooter, 36.7 from the arc (not bad), averaging 9.9 and 3.4.

Tyronn Lue averages 7.5 ppg, 3.1 apg, shooting 43.2% for his career and 39% from the arc. He's getting paid half of what Atkins is.

These guys aren't that far off from guys like Smush Parker, Shammond Williams, Moochie Norris, Mike Wilks, or Omar Cook. I'd actually prefer a guy like Cook to Atkins, honestly... he's got more talent, more youth, and better pure passing vision. He's also been working on his J, and playing hard-nosed defense. 

Not to mention guys like Blake Stepp, Romain Sato, Andre Emmett and Chris Duhon are likely to be available for our 2nd round pick this year. Any of those guys might be worth more than Atkins.

I'd rather not tie up our salary for a backup guard that we just don't need THAT badly right now. If Skiles wants to play them less minutes, he could... they aren't forcing his hand to be out there. Brunson can handle more minutes, and so could Dupree, and SS is not the kind of guy that will shy away from giving those guys 20 minutes or so in a game.

So don't freak out about us not getting a guard in exchange for Fizer. Atkins is not the kind of contract we want.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Whoever is the Utah GM is a GENIUS...

Keon Clark played 1 game for them...

He got 1, 2, 3, 4 draft picks out of him...

2 From Sac-Town for taking him..

2 From Phoenix for sending him...


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Guys this isn't about Atkins...

I'm not the President of the Chucky Atkins fan club...

Ya we need a real backup PG, but the frustration isn't just about that...

I just don't see how you can be 16-38 and do nothing...

What's the plan?

That's all I'd like to know...

Where is this team going besides the lottery?

If we can be competetitve and win some games and have a good feeling about next year fine...but if you're idea of having a good idea of next year means losing the rest of our games so we can get Okafor, well, damn that just sucks...


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## Lusty RaRue (Sep 9, 2003)

It's easy to be a genius GM when the team you work for has cap space to facilitate deals in this the last year(most likely) of the luxury tax.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Showtyme, I said earlier today I would love to bring in Omar Cook, but I think he's going to stay with Portland the rest of the season, he's on the floor in crunch time.

It's disappointing to know that this guy was available when we were trading for Rick Brunson.

I would have rather actually put Mason on the floor a couple of games and seen what he could do than just shipping him off.

It confuses me how you can't question a lot of the decisions that are made, and the stuff I'm referring to isn't stuff like why don't we trade the whole team for TMac?

It's stuff like what I just referred to in this post...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> That is a much worse package than what Boston gave up in the trade. I wouldn't be surprised if Paxson tried to get Atkins but Detroit and Atlanta chose to deal with the Celtics instead.
> ...


Nice post.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Guys this isn't about Atkins...
> 
> I'm not the President of the Chucky Atkins fan club...
> ...


You don't have any objectivity here. How do you know Pax didn't try? If the three C's and Hinrich are off limits, this team doesn't have much to work with. In this whole Wallace deal, would you rather the Bulls be in the Celtics position? Taking it up the *** without any lubrication? Detroit found someone more gullible than Pax in Ainge. Atlanta got rid of Sheed and has a bunch of cheap players. Detroit got two VERY good players in the deal and the Celts get screwed. Again, you seem to want to remove the Celts and put the Bulls in their place. If so, we'd get screwed. It makes no sense.

Sometimes the best plan of action is no plan of action. I can't blame Pax for not making a deal if other teams found better deals out there than what we had to offer. I'd rather stand pat, play out the season and come to the table with a high draft pick and some young talent to potentially offer over the summer. Nothing is really going to change between now and then anyways. We have more options then and also more time.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Good post, fl_flash.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Detroit got an absolutely fabulous deal.

Boston gave up more than we would give up, so they got Atkins and the pick.

Same with the Giricek deal... I would gladly have given up Fizer for Stevenson too.

The bottom line is that I don't see that we were in a position to offer any more to either Orlando or Detroit than what they actually got.

At the same time, I think we've been pretty unsteady and unsure of what we're willing to do, and very (read too) averse to taking on salary. The reason we aren't competitive is that we have too many too young guys and too many too old guys. Today was a chance to get some balance there and we didn't... another missed opportunity assuming nothing unexpected happens in the next two hours.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> At the same time, I think we've been pretty unsteady and unsure of what we're willing to do, and very (read too) averse to taking on salary. The reason we aren't competitive is that we have too many too young guys and too many too old guys. Today was a chance to get some balance there and we didn't... another missed opportunity assuming nothing unexpected happens in the next two hours.


Good post Mike, I agree completely...

The chance to do something was there, not just anything, but something, something that could help our team out..

Maybe Pax did try, maybe not, I don't know...but he (himself) gives the impression he doesn't know what he's doing... 

Like I said it's frustrating mainly because I just don't see us as having a plan..

If the plan is to stand pat, well then what we should be doing is plugging some of the holes that around the core that we have...

That's the least we could have done...

(this isn't a damn we didn't trade for Kobe attitude I have!!!)

If the plan is to blow the whole thing up and start over, ok, whatever at least we have a plan, a course of action, and we go from there...

A lot of people are responding to things in my post that aren't there, I haven't said just make any trade, it's not about that, any frustration you have about this team can be traced from the offseason to this point right this second, how can you not be frustrated? 

If you're not ok, but then don't jump on anyone because they are..

We're all fans, we all want to win, but the oh well, we suck, wait until next year attitude just doesn't do it for me, and never will...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Good post Mike, I agree completely...
> ...


I agree 100%.

Speaking of 100%, that's about the certainty level of Marcus Fizer's long-term contribution to the Bulls being 0.

He is going to walk, and when he walks he's not going to get us under the cap.

In other words, he's putting us in position to get other players and he's not going to contribute on the court.

I realize he's had a crappy year, but there's got to be some interest out there for a guy with an expiring deal who was being touted as a 6th man candidate last year.

Richie Frahm, Ely and Keyon Dooling, Morris Peterson, Deshawn Stevenson... any of those guys would have helped because they brought a guy at a need position who at least had a prayer of being here and contributing beyond the end of the year.

Instead of taking a flyer though, we've sat on our *** and will now watch as a guy walks out the door for nothing in return at the end of the year.

That's not how you build a winner.


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## Justice (Nov 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lusty RaRue</b>!
> It's easy to be a genius GM when the team you work for has cap space to facilitate deals in this the last year(most likely) of the luxury tax. [/QUOT
> 
> Well, we have had the cap space of the world for the last five years and we have not pulled out any kind of deals like that.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

can someone explain me why Hawks do this?

they don't make any more cap relief,Mills and Sura injured,so they trade Sheed for Rebraca!?

what,the 1st pik,the 80% redux on Mills contract - r those the reasons???


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## Lusty RaRue (Sep 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Justice</b>!
> 
> 
> > Originally posted by <b>Lusty RaRue</b>!
> ...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> can someone explain me why Hawks do this?
> 
> they don't make any more cap relief,Mills and Sura injured,so they trade Sheed for Rebraca!?
> ...


Pretty much they're. Some cash and a low first round pick.

For one of the top players in the game.

They're complete morons. Getting Rasheed and Doleac was a brief point at which, had they stopped there, they would have had the best of both worlds. A team that, while not good, was competitive, and therefore at least somewhat attractive to free agents next year. They would have had enough to offer something to Sheed, and still made a max offer to Kobe and maybe another MLE type offer to a third guy. Or, they could have let Sheed walk and had about the same cap room they will next summer, but at the same time putting a respectable product on the court.

Instead, they flushed that, thereby guaranteeing that they will suck for years to come and their good move was erased by a bad one.

I honest to goodness see no reason to keep such a team in business. They can't sell it to anyone, and this move certainly isn't going to help anyone buy it because it means even fewer butts in the seats. The rest of the league ought to buy it back and fold it up... it's a disgrace.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I honest to goodness see no reason to keep such a team in business. They can't sell it to anyone, and this move certainly isn't going to help anyone buy it because it means even fewer butts in the seats.


It's too bad cuz...

Phillips Arena is NICE....

I have heard the new owners didn't like the idea of Sheed playing as a Hawk, so maybe it was done to appease them...


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I honest to goodness see no reason to keep such a team in business. They can't sell it to anyone, and this move certainly isn't going to help anyone buy it because it means even fewer butts in the seats. The rest of the league ought to buy it back and fold it up... it's a disgrace.


The only GM to ever try this type a rebuild with so little resources is Krause. 

Orlando at least had a scrappy .500 team and a player's coach in Doc. Utah, Denver both had at least some good young players.

We all know how well in turned out the first time this was tried.

Hawks will be terrible for years.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Some random comments :

As to happygrinch's comments in another thread about how the race card plays into trade outcomes... I could not agree more . 

I have absolutely no doubt that Dumars and Thomas's recent trades for black players whilst expunging the scourge of white players from their respective rosters comes from innate inner wisdom that they know that black ballas are tougher and more talented than soft wimpy jump shooting "All Pleasantville Starting 5 "white basketball players 

A co-incidence that in life after basketball that Chip Ainge and Huck Paxson .. the quintessential role playing wimpy jump shooting white basketball players ... cannot assert white anglo saxon dominance in playing Massa in Management ... the way it was meant to be?

I think not 

No No No No ... following on from happygrinch's comments with regard to Isiah Thomas playing the race card in trading outcomes.. I say thank you Isiah for having the courage to blatantly play this card and confirm what many of us have known all along ... that black ballas have a god given gift for this game and all sports in general ... and further ... that aggressive,assertive black management of these modern day sporting plantations will produce more exciting entertainment value for us the fans ... because soft wimpy arsed borgeouis white management .. corrupted by the medocrity and conformity of white structralist societal control ( eat your veges, pay your taxes , leave the room to pass wind , carpool if you can , don't forget to floss after meals, go to church and give praise to the almighty so that he can look down at you little beneath his sight ) * can't possibly know what it takes to be manage in a brutha's world.. which the NBA and nearly all pro sports are .. because let's face it if black athletes are the better athletes, which we all know they are right , then surely it must follow that they are also the better pro sports managers??? *


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

BTW .. the above post is obvious satirical absurdity ( at least to me ) .. but I am sure it will offend some of the more politically cautious and sensitive that have been conditioned into conformity in how they are taught to think .. at the expense of making light of the absurd


For those of you who are offended .. I am sorry. Sorry for you .


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Anyway

Phx dealt the 1st round picks to Utah ( probably pretty heavily protected ) to escape the L Tax bill this season .. but also because Isiah owes them a couple of future 1st round picks as well .

So the draft picks they give out are balanced by what Isiah gives them 

John Gabriel finally did something right in trading for DeShawn Stevensen for Gordan Giricek

Danny Ainge is in over his head.. so he won't miss it when it is called for pretty soon. 

I mean its pretty awful when Celtcis fans start getting melancholy for Rick Pitino 

The Hawks ? 

Why trade for Rasheed in the first place if they knew they were going to lose him .. OK clear the decks I can see that and at least try and put on a respectable showing for the remainder of the season. But for crappy late 1st round picks ? They just traded SAR and Theo for a couple of dinky late first round picks . Woo Hoo

Joe Dumars did do well ... but no one was going to offer anything of value to the Hawks for Sheed because they knew he was likely gone at the end of the season. The only thing that the Hawks could hace got for him were expiring contracts and dinky worthless late 1st round picks .. which is exactly what they got

So again I ask ? Why trade for him in the first place? SAR and Theo were off the books next year anyway .. Do the Hawks really think they are going to be a player in free agency ?

Joe Dumars saw an opportunity and took it - a late 1st round pick and expiring contracts for a guy that can put them over the top now ( just keep him away from the line in the 4th in Game 7 in the Finals ) He knows he may lose him at the end of the season .. but so what .. The Pistons have loaded up short term to make a serious run and will be ( IMO ) the team to beat in the East . Isiah could not have traded for him now .. didn't have what the Hawks wanted .. cap space and draft picks 

Pax... what happended to Aaron McKie ? I don't think it is as bad as what some suggest .. I would have liked to have seen Fizer dealt ( for his own sake ) for additional guard depth .. but I props to Pax for staying the course and not caving in to pressure and dealing from a position of weakness ( which we are in right now ) 

Stay the course and beleive in your players .. and he did just that . I would have liked Aaron McKie though


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Joe Dumars saw an opportunity and took it - a late 1st round pick and expiring contracts for a guy that can put them over the top now ( just keep him away from the line in the 4th in Game 7 in the Finals ) He knows he may lose him at the end of the season .. but so what .. The Pistons have loaded up short term to make a serious run and will be ( IMO ) the team to beat in the East .


I'll find the link, but I read they're already talking about a extension...

So I really don't think he has plans to "rent" Sheed..


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