# Cavs @ Magic | Game #23 | 12/16/2006



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

_*Game 23*_


*Cleveland Cavaliers** (14-8)* *@* *Orlando Magic* *(15-10)*

_*Saturday, December 16, 2006*_
*Time:* 4:00pm PT, 7:00pm ET
*TV:* FSOhio HD, *NBATV RTV*
*Radio:* *WTAM 1100*
*Location:* *Orlando Centroplex*, Orlando, Florida

*HEAD COACHES*


*Preview*



> The Orlando Magic are mired in their longest losing streak of the season. Not so coincidently, Dwight Howard is struggling with his worst stretch of play of the year.
> 
> It will be a tough task for Howard and the Magic to turn things around Saturday as they host the Cleveland Cavaliers, owners of the best record in the Eastern Conference.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Well we traditionally lose these games: road end of a back to back. Here's hoping Hughes plays as well as he did last game. They'll have Hill on Lebron so Hughes should have an advantage against Hedo and Arroyo


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

This is a statement game for this team. Are we pretenders or contenders? A contending team wins these type of matchups.

There is no excuse for mental or physical fatigue as we had an easy game against the Sonics.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

We'd be foolish to think that the Magic are going to come out tonight like they have in their last 3 games. They'll be pumped up to play their biggest competition right now in the East at home. 

We're going to have to bring our A game to take this one. Fortunately, we're healthy and brimming with confidence over last night's game. I think it will be a close game all night.


----------



## notting_hill (Dec 18, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> Well we traditionally lose these games: road end of a back to back. Here's hoping Hughes plays as well as he did last game. They'll have Hill on Lebron so Hughes should have an advantage against Hedo and Arroyo


Both Hedo and Hill will be out for this night. I am sure about Hedo and as far as I read Hill will not play either or will be a game time decision. So we have a real advantage there. BTW, Nelson will be not be on the court either, lacking 3 of the starters, we must get a win, most probably an easy one. :cheers:


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

notting_hill said:


> Both Hedo and Hill will be out for this night. I am sure about Hedo and as far as I read Hill will not play either or will be a game time decision. So we have a real advantage there. BTW, Nelson will be not be on the court either, lacking 3 of the starters, we must get a win, most probably an easy one. :cheers:


As long as Dwight is in the game, I don't think we'll be able to get an easy win. 

Although with our team fully healthy, we should win this. It will mostly just depend on how aggressive we come out. Since this is perceived as a pretty big game, I expect Lebron to bring it tonight. 

Larry, on the other hand, is a wild card. I'm sure he'll take a lot of outside shots again tonight, it's just a question of whether he'll make them this time.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

notting_hill said:


> Both Hedo and Hill will be out for this night. I am sure about Hedo and as far as I read Hill will not play either or will be a game time decision. So we have a real advantage there. BTW, Nelson will be not be on the court either, lacking 3 of the starters, we must get a win, most probably an easy one. :cheers:


Good news if that's the case. Again I just want to see Hughes play well again. In terms of numbers he really fell off after his last really good games (season opener)


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Good news if that's the case. Again I just want to see Hughes play well again. In terms of numbers he really fell off after his last really good games (season opener)


One good thing that I keep forgetting is that we haven't really seen the *real* Larry Hughes as a Cav yet.

He got injured in preseason last year and wasn't healthy once last year. He's starting to get back to his borderline all-star form at times this year, and I'm beginning to wonder if we can hope to see these kind of performances from him consistently.

He just has to stay aggressive and avoid shooting so many jumpers. But I still have a lot of hope for him. I know a lot of other Cavs fans have seemed to give up on him.

He used to average 22 a game alongside Arenas, which isn't particularly easy. I think he could do it alongside Lebron, too. 

But he's gotta attack the basket more.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Not a great start. Eric overdribbles for about 20 seconds and loses the ball for a turnover.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Z has been playing better and better lately, especially defensively and on the boards. 

That gives us a legit big 3 - LBJ/LH/Z


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Hill's playing but not Nelson and Hedo it looks like


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Man the Magic have alot less offensive firepower than I thought


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I like this start the Cavs are off to (13 straight points).


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Bron off to another great start. Is the slump over?


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Cavs have the 3rd best defense in the league. Doing another good job so far tonight.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Cavs finishing the qtr strong.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Cleveland leads 23-12 after the opening quarter (11 point lead). The Magic shoot 6-for-24 in the 1st quarter.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

After struggling to score the first couple of possessions, Cavs started getting pretty hot.

Our defense was incredible that first quarter. Z's defense on Howard was great.

Let's try to keep up this intensity.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Eric is still overdribbling way too much. It seems like he's looking for his own shot, doesn't it? That's odd...


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Why is Snow playing so many mins? If the Magic are going small where is boobie??

EDIT: ahh there's boobie. Nice job by Mike B. getting Lebron a short rest


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Cavs in jumper mode again


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

8 straight Magic points and 7 straight Cavaliers' misses.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

sloppy game going both ways.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Orlando sensing that our shot isn't going down, so they're packing it in the lane. We should get Z, Drew, Lebron, Larry, and Gibson out there to spread the floor a bit.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Brandname said:


> Orlando sensing that our shot isn't going down, so they're packing it in the lane. We should get Z, Drew, Lebron, Larry, and Gibson out there to spread the floor a bit.


Funny thing is, theoretically we have our shooting lineup out there already with Damon, Boobie, and Yell.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Howard is starting to become a major problem down there.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Funny thing is, theoretically we have our shooting lineup out there already with Damon, Boobie, and Yell.


Yeah, we're going to need them to start shooting well if we want to take this game. Dwight is too strong underneath.


----------



## JMES HOME (May 22, 2006)

8 - 0 run too start off the 2nd 

GO ORLANDO !!!


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Nice tear drop by Boobie 

He really should be bringing the ball up instead of LBJ also


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

JMES HOME said:


> 8 - 0 run too start off the 2nd
> 
> GO ORLANDO !!!


Hmm... that's a strange thing to post on an opponent's board.


----------



## JMES HOME (May 22, 2006)

Brandname said:


> Hmm... that's a strange thing to post on an opponent's board.


its really quiet in the orlando bored :biggrin:
anyway goodluck


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Redick makes the 3-point bomb and is fouled. If he starts to get going, he's going to spread the floor a lot and cause problems for the defense.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

It appears that Z is the only player on our team who can bother Dwight down low. I think it's because of his length. We might have to play him quite a few minutes tonight.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Larry is just getting things to go down lately. It's weird. We didn't see this at all last year.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Lebron putting his head down and just walks to the bench, I wonder sometimes if he is a vocal leader? Is anyone on our team?


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Well here is their run. Do we attack or do we fold?


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Diener is killing us with his speed off the dribble


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> Lebron putting his head down and just walks to the bench, I wonder sometimes if he is a vocal leader? Is anyone on our team?


 Eric Snow.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Mike Brown always has the look on his face, swig of water, and then looks dumbfounded again.


Larry shooting 3's is not what we paid him for, please attack the hoop someone.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Eric Snow should not be in the game right now.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

I knew the Seattle game was too good to be true. 

Larry cant kill Reddick off the dribble?


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

What an awful 2nd qtr


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

If we can get anything for Eric Snow, we should trade him.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Larry always commits offensive fouls.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Jesus Larry Hughes, Reddick cant move left or right and you try and plow through him.... we didnt pay him for his smarts i suppose...


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Well, at least we're only down 7...it could be alot worse.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Defensive battle.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Where the hell was LeBron in the 2nd qtr? How come he's nowhere to be seen after the 1st quarters...


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

I'd like to say that was our worst Quarter of the year, but I am sure we've had worse 3rd quarters. 

Did we get our bad quarter out of the way in the 2nd quarter, maybe for once we will come out of the gates in the 2nd half fired up.

One can only hope.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

That second quarter couldn't have gone worse. And I'm pretty sure Brown decided to stick with Snow as soon as Gibson made the floater down the lane.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Defensive battle.


Thats just an excuse for how poorly we played on the Offensive side.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Snow does some nice things defensively, but this team is better off without him because Mike Brown plays him too damn much. 

Our offense grinds to a halt with him once teams start cheating off, yet Brown refuses to make an adjustment.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Brandname said:


> Eric Snow should not be in the game right now.


If Snow wasn't in the game who'd shoot the ball. Doesn't look like anyone else is willing.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

The Cavs got outscored 26-8 in the 2nd qtr...how is that even possible.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Eric Snow:

16 min 0/4 fg 0/1 3pt 0/2 ft for 0 pts 

We're playing 4 on 5 on offense gentlemen. We're bailing their defense out by playing Snow so much.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^Sad. Even Silas knew better than to play Snow 30 mins a night.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Whats really killing us is our terrible rebounding today. Gooden with 4 in 16 mins and Varejao hasn't gotten a single one. We're being outrebounded by 9 so far and we're giving up way too many easy putbacks.


----------



## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

8 points in the 2nd quarter is terrible. After we got up by 11 especially against a good team.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I want Eric Snow out just so he stops dribbling the damn ball... argh.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Lebron needs to man up and defend Hill. It's a bad matchup for Snow


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

I just don't get why Snow is taking so many jump shots. Someone please make him stop


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wow, we're playing really soft. Lebron not taking over at all.

Bad call against Z. He wasn't even moving. Unless he really was inside the circle, which I don't think he was.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

The OUTLAW said:


> I just don't get why Snow is taking so many jump shots. Someone please make him stop


You'd think Mike Brown would be the guy to do that, but I guess not.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

How was that a charge?


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

The OUTLAW said:


> I just don't get why Snow is taking so many jump shots. Someone please make him stop


It's because he's wide open, by design of course. 

Which begs the question why isn't Mike Brown making an adjustment?


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Snow has 4 turnovers. If he can't take care of the ball he needs to sit next to Wesley, on another team.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> It's because he's wide open, by design of course.
> 
> Which begs the question why isn't Mike Brown making an adjustment?


He's not a good in-game coach. You'd also think he'd make the adjustment to take Snow off Hill, but he hasn't done that yet either.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Is Lebron really that weak on defense? Man up and take Grant Hill. Snow is giving up way too many inches the past too nights, anyone can square up and shoot on him.

I dont mind that foul by Z, he is being aggressive he will only play 25 minutes tonight anyways, use the 6 fouls.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

We need stops. But at least it looks like we're trying on offense now


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Thank God Gooden is playing well this qtr or we'd be down 20


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Z with 4 is a problem.. who's gonna match up with Howard


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

All right, we need to take momentum here.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Great defense for 23.5 seconds, our luck!


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Larry with 4 fouls, will Brown go with a DJ/Snow backcourt and doom our chances in this game?


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

It's weird, Brown seems to want to go with Eric Snow even more than usual tonight.

Lebron nowhere to be found this quarter.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Yep, DJ/Snow


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Larry with 4 fouls, will Brown go with a DJ/Snow backcourt and doom our chances in this game?


What are his options?


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

The only guy on our bench who's scored this game is Gibson, yet he continues to ride the pine


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I swear to god, this backcourt is going to make my head explode.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Well Drew you had your heat check, give it up.....

If Lebron wasnt Lebron those were two terrible shots... thank god one went it


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Eric Snow for Lebron. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Great, Brown goes to Snow again.


----------



## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Larry with 4 fouls, will Brown go with a DJ/Snow backcourt and doom our chances in this game?


Do you even have to ask?


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Man Snow is terrible.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

I hate Snow. He's missed 5 free throws tonight.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Boy its alllll Mental right now for Snow... doesnt have it tonight


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I swear, Snow is going to make me go bald. I can't take this. I can't stand that we're playing him. Mike Brown is being outcoached badly here.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Snow currently with 0/5 FG / 0/5 FT / 0 Pts.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

We worked are *** off for 10 minutes cut the lead too 3 points , and in less than 2 minutes they have it back to what it was at half.

Shame


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

remy23 said:


> Snow currently with 0/5 FG / 0/5 FT / 0 Pts.


How much you wanna bet he sees 12 minutes in the 4th quarter?


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

That was a stupid time for Brown to pull LeBron. We'd made a bit of a push and in the minute that he came out we lost it back.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

remy23 said:


> Snow currently with 0/5 FG / 0/5 FT / 0 Pts.


Don't forget the turnovers


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Brown's coaching has been horrendous.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

remy23 said:


> Snow currently with 0/5 FG / 0/5 FT / 0 Pts.


That's the Eric we all know and love


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I'm surprised Lebron is starting the 4th on the bench. I figured he'd want to take over the entire 4th.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Gibson starts the 4th at least: we'll see what happens.

In Snow defense: he's old and it's a back to back


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wow, Damon's 1 minute in the 4th quarter has already been more productive than Snow's entire game. 

Gibson playing great. If we lose, it's because Brown decided to give all of Gibson and Damon's minutes to Eric.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Nice play by Boobie - need these Ft's


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Gibson starts the 4th at least: we'll see what happens.
> 
> In Snow defense: he's old and it's a back to back


That's why I blame Brown more than Snow here. It's Brown's job to recognize this and make the adjustments.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Time to put Lebron back in


----------



## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Time to put Lebron back in


Yeah, like right now


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wow, Lebron isn't coming back in now?!

Another terrible move by Brown. What is he thinking?


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Why is it when we get close we can't make a shot to save our lives. This is like the exact opposite of last years team.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

OMG what a TERRIBLE CALL!!!


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

How could that official not be fired for something so stupid? That's going to hurt us so much.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

That jump ball killed our momentum


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

A series of bad calls just cost us about 5 points.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

The Magic are getting some serious calls here..

Gotta give their coach credit though, he keeps pounding it inside with a purpose. Our guys are just all over the place offensively


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Dribble and hoist. 

Where is the coaching here?


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

We're our own worst enemies in this game.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Why does it seem like Lebron isn't getting any respect this year?


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

The Magic are all isolation play on offense.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Why does it seem like Lebron isn't getting any respect this year?


I don't understand it either. It's not just the star calls, he's not getting ANY calls.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Brandname said:


> Why does it seem like Lebron isn't getting any respect this year?


Because he isn't. LeBron still gets "good and excellent player calls" but the days of "superstar calls" are few and far between now. In the long run, it will make James a better player learning to play through that. But in the short term, it's hurting us because we're not going to the foul line as we should.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

remy23 said:


> Because he isn't. LeBron still gets "good and excellent player calls" but the days of "superstar calls" are few and far between now. In the long run, it will make James a better player learning to play through that. But in the short term, it's hurting us because we're not going to the foul line as we should.


Doesn't it seem like their specifically trying NOT to give him calls when he gets contact, though? I mean, they're making a lot of just bad calls...


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Why does Hughes keep hoisting all of these 3's? It's not like he's shooting well today.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Howard can't score on Z..


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Our offense just sucks.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Brandname said:


> Doesn't it seem like their specifically trying NOT to give him calls when he gets contact, though? I mean, they're making a lot of just bad calls...


That's one of the reasons why LeBron is shooting a lot of jumpers these days. It isn't paying off as much to drive these days as it used to.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Last year, Lebron would completely take over right now.

But I don't think he's going to tonight. He hasn't done it all year. I don't know why.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Our offense just sucks.


It's Browns fault. Magic are just loading up on LBJ and he again isn't adjusting.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> It's Browns fault. Magic are just loading up on LBJ and he again isn't adjusting.


It really wouldn't be so bad if he would just man up and hire an offfensive coordinator. Right now, he's hamstringing our team by taking away any offense we could have.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> It's Browns fault. Magic are just loading up on LBJ and he again isn't adjusting.


Its Mike Browns fault that Larry is 4-16 shooting half of them are open looks?

Now thats a laugh... as is Larry Hughes

Where is everyone that was on his nutz last night? If anyone else put up this kind of game like Larry is we would want his head on a plater, we keep given this guy excuses, his a bust of a FA pick if you ask me.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Dooling is reaching Jamal Crawford status. He always kills us


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Games over. We played like girls


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Lebron was fouled again on that play, WTF


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

At the end of the day, you have to knock down shots. The Magic did, we didn't. Both teams played great defense, so if you didn't bring your jumpshot tonight, you weren't scoring.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I think the reffing on Lebron is intentional, too many missed calls.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

The OUTLAW said:


> Games over. We played like girls


Sasha must have fooled around with Mike Browns wife or something, his confidense has to be that of Snow's confidence from beyond the arc.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

It hurts that we hardly played our shooters this game.

That doesn't help us at all. If Brown thinks he can win games with nothing but defense, he's got another thing coming.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

So how long are we going to have to wait for Ferry to force Mike Brown's hand into hiring an offensive coordinator. 

You can't allow the head coach to hold your team hostage just because he's stubborn. We need an offense badly.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> I think the reffing on Lebron is intentional, too many missed calls.


Then LeBron can't be the 30ppg scorer he can/should be anymore. Without more foul shot attempts, it's nearly out of reach.


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Browns rotations are awful. He had the worst possible lineup you could have from players on our active rotation to finish the third. He refuses to play boobie alongside bron and hughes, while continueing to give him useless minutes alongside Snow and Damon.

To close this post off I will say this. LeBron has to work way too hard night in andn ight out for him to score.

Another winnable game mangled by our bum on the sidelines.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

We cannot be outrebounded by 10 and expect to win a game. Rebounding is the one thing that we ordinarily do better than whomever we might play. We gave Orlando way way way too many second shot attempts.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

We are just a horrible road team. Lebron is the only guy who seems to be able to bring his game away from the Q - everyone else just disappears. 

Hughes, Z, all our role players just disappear on the road.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

We'll get these guys back on saturday.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

TyGuy said:


> Browns rotations are awful. He had the worst possible lineup you could have from players on our active rotation to finish the third. He refuses to play boobie alongside bron and hughes, while continueing to give him useless minutes alongside Snow and Damon.
> 
> To close this post off I will say this. LeBron has to work way too hard night in andn ight out for him to score.
> 
> Another winnable game mangled by our bum on the sidelines.


I agree 100%


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

remy23 said:


> Then LeBron can't be the 30ppg scorer he can/should be anymore. Without more foul shot attempts, it's nearly out of reach.


LeBron is just not taking enough shots to be a 30ppg scorer. he's playing too passively for refs to give him the respect he deserves either.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Box Score*

*Orlando 81, Cleveland 74*


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Basketball is bar-none the most frustrating sport to watch.

Especially when your coach sticks with horrible rotations and isn't putting our players in a position to get easy buckets. 

This is not a smoothly-running offense. Not even close.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

The OUTLAW said:


> LeBron is just not taking enough shots to be a 30ppg scorer. he's playing too passively for refs to give him the respect he deserves either.


I'll put this game on Larry and the rest of the Lebron sidekicks.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

The OUTLAW said:


> LeBron is just not taking enough shots to be a 30ppg scorer. he's playing too passively for refs to give him the respect he deserves either.


If he just went to the line for about 4 more foul shots, he'd be right there even without extra FGA. If LeBron were rewarded for his current FGA output, he'd be set. Now he'll have to increase his FGA to make up for a lack of FTA. But the ratio of FGA to FTA would still be lacking, but simply better masked by taking additional FGA.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

By the way, we lost this game in the third quarter when we were down 3 (after having whittled the lead down). Brown took out LeBron and we ended up being down 7 by the team he came back in the 4th I think we were down 11. Brown is just not smart enough to know that he needed to ride LeBron in this game. Hughes was shooting like crap and the only other player was Gooden. You really couldn't take leBron out at that time.


----------



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Maybe Mike Brown is coming around, he atleast only played Marshall 7 minutes?

Thats a plus, maybe he will dig thru his stat sheets and find other weak links.


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Maybe lebron is tired of having to create virtually all of his points. We rarely use him how we should use him. Off the ball and on the post. Its asking him too much to create all of his 30 points a game he should be scoring.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

remy23 said:


> If he just went to the line for about 4 more foul shots, he'd be right there even without extra FGA. If LeBron were rewarded for his current FGA output, he'd be set. Now he'll have to increase his FGA to make up for a lack of FTA. But the ratio of FGA to FTA would still be lacking, but simply better masked by taking additional FGA.


LeBrons 4 more foul shots only count's for about 2.5 point (okay maybe 2.8) but that still is not going to get him to 30 not the way he's playing. 

Perfectly good first quarter given away by an exceedingly terrible 2nd quarter. All teams go through cold spells but they were just entirely inept and that's not acceptable. Pathetic play. This team needs a players only meeting and someone to smack a few of them around.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> Maybe Mike Brown is coming around, he atleast only played Marshall 7 minutes?
> 
> Thats a plus, maybe he will dig thru his stat sheets and find other weak links.


Marshall would have contributed a lot more than Eric Snow did tonight.


----------



## JMES HOME (May 22, 2006)

BADLUCK ON THE LOST BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME !!!
i thought the cavs where gonna take it out after the first in a blowout. Travis Diener played great 

GO ORLANDO!!!


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

It's truly amazing that Ferry did not insist on hiring an experienced offensive coordinator.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

12 assists? The more I look at the stats the more pathetic this game was. We had about 12 assists in the first quarter yesterday


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> It's truly amazing that Ferry did not insist on hiring an experienced offensive coordinator.


I hope he starts to feel more pressure soon. It's pretty clear that we're a much better team than we're playing, mostly because our players aren't put in the best position to score.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

^ I'm under the belief that that happened to avoid putting pressure on Coach Brown. I refuse to believe the idea of needing more offensive strategy was dismissed by the team for a belief that this area was completely under control.


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> It's truly amazing that Ferry did not insist on hiring an experienced offensive coordinator.


I think its more amazing that our owner, NOT general manager, hired a rookie headcoach with 0 headcoaching time at any level.


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Do we ever win ball games where we arent shooting hot from the field and actually have to run our offense to get buckets?


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

TyGuy said:


> Do we ever win ball games where we arent shooting hot from the field and actually have to run our offense to get buckets?


That's part of the problem. 

We just don't have an offensive system that makes it easier on our players to score. We pretty much have to be hot shooting like last night. 

It doesn't help that Larry takes bad shots, Snow can't shoot at all, and Gibson doesn't get nearly as many minutes as he deserves. Not to mention the terrible 3 pg lineup that we apparently like to use.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

The problem is, you can't justify firing Brown because this team has enough talent to win 45-50 games and make the 2nd round in-spite of his mistakes. 

Also we've already had 3 different coaches here in Lebron's first three years, at some point you need some stability. Brown is a lucky recipient of these circumstances.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> The problem is, you can't justify firing Brown because this team has enough talent to win 45-50 games and make the 2nd round in-spite of his mistakes.
> 
> Also we've already had 3 different coaches here in Lebron's first three years, at some point you need some stability. Brown is a lucky recipient of these circumstances.


And I don't think we need to fire Brown, anyway. He's done a lot of good things since he's been here. We've improved by miles defensively.

But he needs help. And he won't accept help. And that's where the problem is.


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Yes we need to fire mike brown. He is doing an awful job and we have no time to wait while things slowly either get better or worse. People need to stop counting Brenden malone as a headcoach. Carmelo Anthony and the nuggets seem to be doing just fine, despite the stability problems they had before finding a guy that could actually coach.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Take away the first and we scored just 51 points the final 3 quarters: ouch. Looks like somebody made an adjustment and then we didnt do squat.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

OBTW, how does Boobie get only 13 minutes in a game where Hughes, Jones, and Snow were crappy?


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Pioneer10 said:


> Take away the first and we scored just 51 points the final 3 quarters: ouch. Looks like somebody made an adjustment and then we didnt do squat.


I don't think that's accurate. We played the same way in the other 3 quarters as we did in the first quarter, we just couldn't shoot the last 3 quarters. And once our jumpshots dried up, then there was no way we were going to get inside against Orlando who has one of the best interior defenses going.

Fact of the matter is, if Hughes kept up his shooting touch from the first quarter, then we win the game going away.

He got the same looks in the second half, and bricked almost all of them.

We also got beat on the glass, which never happens. We had no where near as many second chance buckets as we normaly have, meanwhile we were giving them multiple second chances.

That's not a rotation thing, that's an effort thing. Orlando's frontcourt outworked everyone on our frontcourt except for Z.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Pioneer10 said:


> OBTW, how does Boobie get only 13 minutes in a game where Hughes, Jones, and Snow were crappy?


Hughes started out on fire, and I'm sorry, but if we're waiting on Boobie to take all of our max contract second banana to Lebron's minutes, we are in serious trouble.

If you look at the minutes distribution, it is very hard for Mike Brown to get Boobie good minutes with the current players we have in the backcourt. We have a logjam.

I mean, Brown is playing Boobie at the 2 and Damon at the 3 just to get the kid minutes.

But Snow only played 25 minutes tonight, Damon played a little bit more off the bench, which is understandable because we were trying to make shots. But the minutes are just not there right now for Boobie. Especially with Snow playing so well the last several games.

Just to get Boobie ten more minutes you'd have to play our starting point guard 15 mpg.

Personally I think Larry should be playing as many minutes as Lebron.

What we all want to happen is Eric Snow to be traded or put at the end of the bench, and have Boobie start with Damon Jones backing him up minimally. But that's not going to happen on any team this early.

You guys don't give him credit, but I think Mike Brown is trying as hard as he can to find room for Boobie. If you noticed tonight our second quarter rotations were diffrent from how they normally are. 

It also says an awful lot that Mike Brown is willing to play Boobie during fourth quarters at all. Drew doesn't even have that from Coach Brown.

If Gibson keeps coming in and working hard, especially on the defensive end, he is going to earn Mike Brown's confidence, and he is going to be our end game closer like Andy became.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

When has Hughes ever been a consistent shooter though? He able to score but he's never in his career been consistent from the outside. And you just made my point: we did NOT adjust. If the shots aren't falling it's the coaches job to tell them to get different shots or put in the personnal to make the shots that are available. This isn't about starting Boobie or playing Boobie 35+ minutes each night, it's about the coach seeing what's happening and adjusting.

Guess what as well: they have Dwight Howard the best rebounder in the league. We're not going to beat everyone on the boards each night


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

> *ORLANDO - *Mr. Hyde returned.
> Take the Cavaliers out of the friendly confines of Quicken Loans Arena, and things quickly go awry.
> It is one thing to lose on the road, it is another to be rendered toothless.
> For the Cavs, it has been both this season, and that is the roadblock between them and elite NBA status.
> ...


http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/basketball/nba/cleveland_cavaliers/16260236.htm


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Oh I will say this in the Cavs defense: teams generally lose a road 3rd game in 4th nights.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Interesting quote from Hughes:



> `We have to run more, get the ball up and put pressure on the defense,'' said Larry Hughes, who scored 14 points but was just 5-of-17 from the floor. ``No walking the ball up; get into our stuff early and break the game up.''


This can be easily seen as a swipe against Brown or Mr. Turtle Eric Snow


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Probably a swipe at Snow, because every other ball handler on the team gets into the offense earlier than him, so it's obviously not a Mike Brown thing.

But what the hell, why not blame it on Mike Brown. You guys have blamed him for everything else. Guy never gets any credit around here for anything.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Probably a swipe at Snow, because every other ball handler on the team gets into the offense earlier than him, so it's obviously not a Mike Brown thing.
> 
> But what the hell, why not blame it on Mike Brown. You guys have blamed him for everything else. Guy never gets any credit around here for anything.


Oh come on even I have said he's done a good job on defense but you can't be one dimensional and expect to win.

The best thing about Brown and his shortcomings compared to an old guy Silas is that Brown has a chance to learn from
his mistakes and adjust. Combine that with being in the East: he'll have every oppurtunity with this team. However that doesn't exlude the fact that his offense and player rotations leave a lot to be desired at times.


----------

