# The Value of Celtics Players



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

From 1-18, rate the trade value of the Celtics' players. Danny Ainge is a type of GM willing to trade anyone. Which player would bring in the best offers?


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

I will say Jefferson has the highest value. Thats it I don't want to go 1-18


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

18. Will Bynum
17. Orien Greene
16. Qyntel Woods
15. Curtis Borchardt
14. Brian Scalabrine
13. Justin Reed
12. Ryan Gomes
11. Mark Blount
10. Delonte West
9. Kendrick Perkins
8. Marcus Banks
7. Raef LaFrentz
6. Tony Allen
5. Dan Dickau
4. Gerald Green
3. Ricky Davis
2. Al Jefferson
1. Paul Pierce


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Jefferson has the highest value? I doubt he is valued higher than Pierce. Let's put it this way, Jefferson *may* be a top 5 power forward. Paul Pierce *is* a top five small forward.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Jefferson has the highest value? I doubt he is valued higher than Pierce. Let's put it this way, Jefferson *may* pe a top 5 power forward. Paul Pierce *is* a top five small forward.


Power Forwards are harder to come by. I think you will agree on that.

Nice tribute to the man who will be traded for a 2nd rounder


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Marcus Banks? In my opinion, his trade value is higher than West's. I don't think putting him at eight is biased.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Gerald Green said:


> Power Forwards are harder to come by. I think you will agree on that.


No, elite wing players are harder to come by. Who would you rather have, Zach Randolph or Ray Allen?


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> No, elite wing players are harder to come by. Who would you rather have, Zach Randolph or Ray Allen?


Did you understand what I said?

I would rather have Allen. You are proving my point. Which is that it is harder to come by an elite PF, which Jeff will be. BTW Jeff will be better than Z-Ro


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Jefferson is going to be an elite power forward (Elton Brand type)? News to me.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Also Z-Ro is not a top 5 PF

(in no order)
Dirk, J.O, Duncan, KG, Gasol, Jamison, Sheed, Bosh, Brand

All are better than Randolph


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Jefferson is going to be an elite power forward (Elton Brand type)? News to me.


Elton Brand is 20-10. You saying Jefferson is not capable of that?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

20/10 and good defense?

He's not capable of that now or in the future.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> 20/10 and good defense?
> 
> He's not capable of that now or in the future.


Good "D" includes shot blocking Big Al is pretty good at that.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Are the contracts included in this list?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Yes.

Raef LaFrentz and Mark Blount are rated lowly.

Also, Al Jefferson is a horrid defender right now.


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

18. Will Bynum-5
17. Orien Greene-5
16. Qyntel Woods-2
15. Curtis Borchardt-3
14. Brian Scalabrine-6
13. Justin Reed-7
12. Ryan Gomes-7
11. Mark Blount-2
10. Delonte West-10
9. Kendrick Perkins-11
8. Marcus Banks-11
7. Raef LaFrentz-12
6. Tony Allen-14
5. Dan Dickau-9
4. Gerald Green-14
3. Ricky Davis-16
2. Al Jefferson-16
1. Paul Pierce-17

The youth factor was what I used most so if you think I overrated some young guys. It's because there very young and pretty good so they got a ok rating.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

MindzEye said:


> 18. Will Bynum-5
> 17. Orien Greene-5
> 16. Qyntel Woods-2
> 15. Curtis Borchardt-3
> ...


What are the numbers at the end of each player?


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

18. Curtis Borchardt
17. Oriene Greene
16. Will Bynum
15. Brian Scalabrine
14. Qyntel Woods
13. Mark Blount
12. Justin Reed
11. Ryan Gomes
10. Raef LaFrentz
9. Tony Allen
8. Delonte West
7. Dan Dickau
6. Kendrick Perkins
5. Gerald Green
4. Marcus Banks
3. Ricky Davis
2. Al Jefferson
1. Paul Pierce


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Anybody who thinks Pierce won't fetch the most in a trade is kidding themselves. Mavs' owner Donnie Nelson referred to him as "Pie in the sky" and said "Paul ain't going nowhere". So obviously, Danny isn't listening to scrub-for-Paul offers, which is good.


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## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

MindzEye said:


> 18. Will Bynum-5
> 17. Orien Greene-5
> 16. Qyntel Woods-2
> 15. Curtis Borchardt-3
> ...



did u actually give the guys a ranking on a 1-18 scale? haha what the hell


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

P2TheTruth34 said:


> did u actually give the guys a ranking on a 1-18 scale? haha what the hell


You'll have to excuse him. He's a little out there in some of his opinions.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Lanteri said:


> You'll have to excuse him. He's a little out there in some of his opinions.


Says the guy with a TOMMY HEINSOHN AVATAR.


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> What are the numbers at the end of each player?


Man I completely misinterpreted this thread. I thought you rated the players trade value 1-18??? I was woundering why 18...I really need to get some more sleep and pay attention...


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Lanteri said:


> You'll have to excuse him. He's a little out there in some of his opinions.


If it was 1-18 which i did 4 some reason I dont think anything was really out there.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

He rated each player on a scale and didn't rank the players.

I should've explained it better.


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Nah I think you did it good seeing as everyone but ME understood it...I jus been wired lately which is why my posts are mostly irritant...


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

Outside of Pierce, Davis, Jefferson and Green - none of the players on the squad have much trade value imo. I'm not saying they NO value, but the value they do have is not much.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Gerald Green doesn't have a high trade value, despite what some people may believe.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> Gerald Green doesn't have a high trade value, despite what some people may believe.


Didn't half a dozen of the teams try to get him by trading for the C's pick? Didn't the players in the summer league talk about him so that GM's came to watch him?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Ricky Davis can fetch more for him.

Consider this, John Nash offered #27 and #35 for #18 and a chance at Green.

Ricky Davis is a more proven player with a nice contract. Gerald Green has yet to prove himself and is currently a lesser prospect than JR Smith, Josh Smith, and Dorrel Wright.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> Ricky Davis is a more proven player with a nice contract. Gerald Green has yet to prove himself and is currently a lesser prospect than JR Smith, Josh Smith, and Dorrel Wright.




eaaaaaaaaasy with dorrel wright...the other 2 i can agree on


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Dorell Wright will end up a much better player than Gerald Green.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> Dorell Wright will end up a much better player than Gerald Green.




and u base that on wrights 3 games played this yr or his 7 total points???


or maybe their respective senior seaosns where wright avg 24 and 12 and green avg 28 and 13...you cant say either will end up being MUCH better than either...not yet theres not enough evidence


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

High school numbers? How about Al Jefferson's 45/20? They do not mean anything.

Wright is universally rated as the better prospect during their senior season. Gerald Green went to prep school. If he didn't, he would've never be considered for the lottery in '04 like Wright.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> High school numbers? How about Al Jefferson's 45/20? They do not mean anything.
> 
> Wright is universally rated as the better prospect during their senior season. Gerald Green went to prep school. If he didn't, he would've never be considered for the lottery in '04 like Wright.



hs numbers dont mean anything but where u are considered in the draft does???...sooooooo michale olowokandi is gonna be better than paul pierce...MUCH better


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Wright and Green have the same chance at busting. Your point isn't valid.

Scouts rated Wright higher.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> *Wright and Green have the same chance at busting. * Your point isn't valid.
> 
> Scouts rated Wright higher.






#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> you cant say either will end up being MUCH better than either...not yet theres not enough evidence




thank you for proving my point for me...after u said a couple of posts earlier...


Premier said:


> Dorell Wright will end up a much better player than Gerald Green.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Does that mean anything?

Wright has a higher ceiling and more potential. They both, at worst case scenario, will not do anything in the NBA. Realistically, Wright will be the better player.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

Premier said:


> Dorell Wright will end up a much better player than Gerald Green.



Based upon all the scouting reports and tape of these two players, I honestly think the only legitimate arguement anyone could have in favor of Wright is that he posseses 10 digits while Green has 9 and 1/2. 

Its far too early to tell for both of them. Green could be a Superstar and Wright a bust or vice versa - no one knows.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

Premier said:


> Ricky Davis can fetch more for him.
> 
> Consider this, John Nash offered #27 and #35 for #18 and a chance at Green.
> 
> Ricky Davis is a more proven player with a nice contract. Gerald Green has yet to prove himself and is currently a lesser prospect than JR Smith, Josh Smith, and Dorrel Wright.



I'm not denying that Ricky couldn't fetch more than Green. I didn't indicate what I thought put the players I listed were in order as to who I think has the greatest trade value - Paul, AJ, Ricky then Green. 

Nash offered a late 1st and early 2nd round pick for Green. Numberous other teams contacted the C's about the pick. 

You try and trade any other Celtic right now for 2 draft picks and its not going to happen. That's why I included him with Paul, Al and Ricky


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## beantown (Sep 2, 2005)

In the east, starting tommorow? Zach Randolph.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

banner17 said:


> Based upon all the scouting reports and tape of these two players, I honestly think the only legitimate arguement anyone could have in favor of Wright is that he posseses 10 digits while Green has 9 and 1/2.
> 
> Its far too early to tell for both of them. Green could be a Superstar and Wright a bust or vice versa - no one knows.


Premier never likes to give players a chance. Unless they are ending up bad players


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

You got me there.

What I have stated implies that I believe Gerald Green is overrated. He may have been projected to go in the top five in this years' draft (which was deep, not top-heavy), but he wouldn't have gone in the top twenty in last year's where he was rated a significantly worse prospect than Josh Smith, JR Smith, and Dorell Wright.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Trade Value on a scale of 1 - 10

Player trade value
---------------------------------------------------
Pierce 9
Jefferson  8
Davis 7
Green 6.5
Banks 6
Perkins 6
Allen 6
West 5
LaFrentz 5
Blount 4.5
Dickau 4.5
Gomes 4.5
Reed 4
Sclarabrine 4
Greene 3.5
Bynum 3.5
Woods 2
Borchard 2


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I'm just curious, who would you trade Jefferson for?


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

I would not trade Jefferson unless a great deal came around.

I think Jefferson will be a Celtic for a LONG TIME!

I am very impressed with Al Jefferson.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Would you trade him for someone like Chris Bosh? Dwight Howard? Elton Brand?


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Would you trade him for someone like Chris Bosh? Dwight Howard? Elton Brand?


Yes
Yes
Maybe


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

You would have to think about trading Jefferson for Elton Brand (if contracts were discounted)?


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't think twice. Brand's only like 25-26, and he's one of the elite few 20/10 guys in the NBA. He already is what Al Jefferson might be someday, and he's still young.


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## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

I agree id prob do it for Elton but at the same time you can see SOME logic in not wanting to. Of course we cant have 1/2 a roster peak now, and the other half peak and 5 yrs and be a championship contender. We need all our players to be at a top level (or near it) when we make our run in a cpl yrs. Obviously Elton is a very good/great player but is he alone gonna make our current team (or in 3-4 years) a championship contender? I dont know. And will Al? I dont know but I think it is important to have a core of players whom we can develop together and at such young ages can gain chemistry for the future. Is Al as good as Elton? No. Will he be? Maybe not. But is Elton Shaq and will he bring us immediate success? No.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

With Elton Brand, Paul Pierce, and Ricky Davis, we would be contenders, but we would still need to add a good point guard and big man.


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## fin_dawgg (Aug 30, 2005)

18. Orien Greene
17. Qyntel Woods	
16. Curtis Borchardt
15. Will Bynum
14. Mark Blount
13. Brian Scalabrine
12. Justin Reed 
11. Perk
10. Ryan Gomes 
9. Dan Dickau
8. Raef LaFrentz 
7. Marcus Banks 
6. Tony Allen
5. D-West	
4. Gerald Green
3. Ricky Davis
2. Al Jefferson
1. Paul Pierce


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Why are you so high on Delonte West's value?

By the way, please post in the roll-call thread.


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Premier said:


> Would you trade him for someone like Chris Bosh? Dwight Howard? Elton Brand?


Yes 
No
Yes


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

You wouldn't trade Al Jefferson for someone like Dwight Howard?

Howard has potential to be the best big man in the game in five years next to Greg Oden.

Al Jefferson has potential to be a less-defensive oriented Elton Brand.

Are you serious? Howard is a bonafide franchis player like Kevin Garnett and Amare Stoudemire.


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Yes, Premier what you have stated about Howard is true. For some reason I completely despise Howard, and belive Jefferson is the choson one. Probably the dislike I have for him talking there but I dont care.


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## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

I know it doesn't mean much because Dwight is the better natural athlete but Al J definitely held his own (i heard outplayed) and was the best big man at the all-star games and against Dwight in practice. Now that doesn't mean he will be better. He has a better post game but defensively/athletically it is not that close.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Howard is a great offensive player (has the same post moves as Al), but is a dominant defensive player, unlike Al Jefferson.


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## cos (May 15, 2005)

Premier, im with you. Howard is a stud and will will be the next dominate, unstoppable force in the league. The only positive for the celtics out of that is that it seems that Howard brings out the best in Jefferson (hopefully true and hopefully it continues to grow).

But Howard is sick. It definately helps that he came into the league built like karl malone. 

I really see Howard turning out like Amare, with a bit less high flying act and more of a defensive low post inside presence. 

And yes, i would take howard over jefferson.


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## BleedGreen (Jun 24, 2002)

Premier said:


> Are you serious? Howard is a bonafide franchis player like Kevin Garnett and Amare Stoudemire.


Didnt Jefferson OWN Howard everytime they faced each other before last season?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Does that matter? Howard is/will be a better player than Jefferson.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

1. Paul Peirce
2. Al Jefferson
3. Ricky Davis (Only because he's cheap)
4. Gerald Green
At this point no one else has much trade value
5. Raef Lafrentz (Contract years coming down & playing well w/o injury)
6. Tony Allen
7. Dan Dickau
8. Kendrick Perkins 
9. Marcus Banks
10. Delonte West (This will get worse as he is exposed)
11. Brian Scalabrine
12. Ryan Gomes (This will get better)
13. Mark Blount (His contract is stupid)
14. Justin Reed (This will get better)
15. Orienne Greene
16. Curtis Borchardt
17. Will Bynum
18. Qyntel Woods (He's done in this league)

I would take Howard for Jefferson, I would probably take Bosh for Al too. I would NOT take Elton Brand for Al....Al will be better than Elton.......his defense will come along just fine, my word he was playing against high school boys in a no-name league in Mississippi a year ago, he never had to play defense but now he does. He is determined and wants to learn and he will. To think just because he couldn't play defense year 1 that he never will is just idiocy. His defense from the beginning of year 1 to the end was already so much different. The kid is special, that will be proven in the next 2 years.

Also, I wasn't high on Green b4 the draft but I WAS happy to get him at 18 because he's way better than 18th in this draft BUT he is going to be better than Dorrel Wright, Wright will be like DeShaun Stevenson. Green is going to have an impact in this league, it just won't be this season. The scouting reports from when they were both seniors, don't mean jack, scouts also advised teams to draft guys like Olawakandi 1st overall, scouts are not all-knowing and they change their reports on a dime.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Kendrick Perkins at #8?


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Premier said:


> Kendrick Perkins at #8?


Perkins is a Monster of a Center, yeah he's at 8 and once he gets playing time this season he'll be higher than that. Centers are hard to come by, especially those that can play. Perk can play and he's a rebounding machine, he gets up the floor amazingly well for his size and he's a very good passer. His shot blocking is also extremely good. Yes he's at 8 now and will climb that list. Sorry nobody on this team right now other than Peirce or Al has much value at this point. We over-rate them because they are our beloved Celtics.

If it were me I'd put him at #3 :clown:


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Other NBA teams do not know of Perkins.

He doesn't get much exposure.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Premier said:


> Other NBA teams do not know of Perkins.
> 
> He doesn't get much exposure.


YET, just wait :biggrin:


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

His trade value *right now* is very low, then.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Premier said:


> His trade value *right now* is very low, then.


Not as low as you think it is obviously. He's a 20 year old Center who showed he can do a lot when given minutes....teams are not as oblivious to him as you think.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

They have every right to be. What exactly has Perkins proved to anyone besides Celtics fans? He is considered fodder right now. Hopefully, that will change.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

BleedGreen said:


> Didnt Jefferson OWN Howard everytime they faced each other before last season?


From what I've read and seen on tape yes he did, simply because he was stronger than Howard. Basketball skills wise I think they were pretty much equal in High School, but Al bullied Howard. 

What is obvious though is that Howard is far more athetically gifted than Al and much longer. There lies the difference. If Howard wants to be, he has the frame to become as strong as Al. Al will never have the athleticism and length that Howard has.

Al has the chance to be very good/All Star, but I think its obvious that Howard will be great/Superstar.

I think people are selling Orlando short. If Grant Hill is healthy next year, I think Orlando has as good of a chance as the Celtics at getting into the playoffs. A starting line up of Howard, Battie, Hill, Francis and Nelson could do some damage. 

The only glaring weakness is Franchise's head and Battie health. I'm not saying Battie's anything great, but paired alongside Howard, he can be a great help defender on the weakside. Franchise might get it and defer leadership to Hill, Nelson and Howard and let the game come to him. Former Celtic Bad Boy Brandon Hunter might step in and add some muscle in at the PF spot and another Celtic alum, DeClerque, the hustle when Battie's Knees falter. They've also got quality bench players in Dooling, Stevenson and Turkoglu.

oops, guess I got a bit off tangent with the Jefferson vs Howard debate


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Premier said:


> They have every right to be. What exactly has Perkins proved to anyone besides Celtics fans? He is considered fodder right now. Hopefully, that will change.


They have every right to what?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Bad wording on my part. I essentially meant that Perkins hasn't proved anything to NBA teams.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Premier said:


> Bad wording on my part. I essentially meant that Perkins hasn't proved anything to NBA teams.


I think he did to the few teams he got real minutes against. I think Doc is ready to put him in the regular rotation this season though and at that point I think teams will become familiar with him quickly and learn to respect his strength.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

whiterhino said:


> I think he did to the few teams he got real minutes against. I think Doc is ready to put him in the regular rotation this season though and at that point I think teams will become familiar with him quickly and learn to respect his strength.


I really don't think that Doc will put "put him in the regular rotation" unless Perk earns it. I trully believe he will though.


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