# Amare great again, Rest of a team sucks just like the Coach



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Amare has 5 blocks in like 10 minutes and the Suns defense is still pathetic.

This team is so bad outside of Amare it is not even funny.

D'Antoni needs to be fired if Kobe doesn't come that's the only thing he might be good for.

Those no defense efforts are ridiculous.

It would also help if the rest of the Suns would move on offense so Amare can get the assists when he is double and triple teamed.

On defense they allow everyone to just walk into the paint for easy layups unless Amare comes over to contest everything.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Excluding Amare and JJ the rest of the Suns are shooting 20%!! 20!!

D'Antoni needs to go back to europe.

At least Amare made the game worth watching with that nasty nasty follow up jam on Lampe's missed 3 at the end of the 2nd quarter.


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

I hate Comcast. I don't get NBATV and have missed 4 or 5 Suns game because of it, but it sounds like I didn't miss much.

Anyways, Amare needs to be more consistent on the boards.. if he concentrated on rebounding he could get 14 or 15 a night, but I guess since no one else is scoring particularly well he has to focus on other aspects.. JJ shut Finley down big time the first two games against the Mavs, what the hell happened?

I don't know about D'Antoni.. who are other head coaching candidates for next year? Doesn't Westphal want a head coaching job again?


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Finley was on fire.

It doesn't help that the Suns perimeter defenders are so agressive on the perimeter that they bite on every ballfake and let their guy go to the hoop.

The Mavs shot almost 60% in the first half that is why the Suns were outrebounded so badly. That and the fact that the Mavs pounded the offensive glass.

It wasn't really Amare's rebounding. What can he do when Marquis Daniels can sneak in on offensive rebounds. He can't block out everyone.

At least Amare made up for that with his blocks.

Amare and JJ were the only guys who came to play. Marion did nothing except hitting like 4 3s in the 2nd half when the game was done.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Some threads ago, one poster KLFO mentioned that Kobe are basically as great as Duncan, KG and Shaq but Duncan, KG, and Shaq could also provide their interior defense on their own to pair up with their excellent offense, I totally agreed. But WTF, Amare is a big man, no excuses, A big man in NBA should alone will his team to 500 winning percenatge, if a big man cant do it. U can offer a statement here..

AMARE SUX!


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

First of all is Amare a 2nd year player out of highschool.

Second of all did he miss 1/3 of the season due to injury.

Third of all his his supporting cast either not fitting him like Duncan's and KG's but more likely his supporting cast is simply not good at this point and simply not ready.

Other than Joe Johnson and Amare there is nobody who can create.

Amare was the only reason the Suns kept it respectable after the half.

Kevin Garnett couldn't stop 5 guys on the floor either. Amare has often have to help on Jake's man and anyone else.

Heck he needed to come out of the paint in this game to help Howard Eisley on Marquis Daniels.



Edited for personal attacks..


----------



## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

So Shawn Marion who you have said is the best SF in the NBA, better than Artest and Peja, and an All-Star last year, suddenly doesn't count as part of Amare's supporting cast?

Tim Duncan's supporting cast are guys like Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker and Bruce Bowen. None of them are Top 5 at their position and maybe not even Top 10. What is this great Spurs supporting cast that makes the Suns supporting cast pale in comparison so that the "best SF in the NBA" is not even worth mentioning?


----------



## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Bottomline is...

Suns current roster is not designed to compliment Marion's and Amare's game. Teams like Wolves, Spurs have supporting cast that all revolves around their stars. Suns is full of talented individual players that does not compliment each other's game... not only that, we still lack a system that takes advantage of our stars.


Offensive wise we are capable... but defensive wise... we are very poor. We cannot play zone defense, and our man to man is very average. Next season we need to reshuffle or we simply incorporate a defensive minded coach.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

it isn't the coach's fault, its the teams fault for not trying. they put their mind to it tonight and look what they forced up-25 turnovers!


----------



## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

It is hard to describe the difference between the team that played against Dallas and the team that beat Houston. Against Dallas the Suns were listless and confused. Against Houston, they were agressive and focused.

I'm not sure they got that much better in two days. It is just that the Suns are young and their energy and confidence goes up and down.

Right now, the Suns need a consistent outside shooter and a center who can defend, rebound, and block shots. The have some promising players, but not enough veteran leadership. We'll see what they cn do.


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

I actually think this team has good identities: They are young & athletic. They should push the ball everytime they get a rebound. But if you play run-n-gun, Amare's effectiveness will get reduced because he can be a monster in half-court sets. Just like the Spurs, obviously TD's supporting cast can play faster pace, like what they're showing now with TD out, but they have to play a slower style because TD is the man on this team. Everybody fits in with the team's superstar. Same case in Phoenix, but Barboso, though talented, was clueless most of the time. Joe Johnson plays great but he doesn't have helps. Marion, I've said it few times, is a 3rd offensive option at best. Don't count on him to produce that correlates to the team's win/loss column. The Suns Cs are smalish but athletic, which IMO actually fits in quite well with Amare but none of them are starting material.

The bottom line is, this is a very young team that don't know how to win on a regular basis. Including Amare himself, these kids produce nice individual stats but don't expect to see many of those Joe Johnson's last-second shot last night. They are coming along but just not there yet.


----------



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Amare may be a 2nd year player out of HS, but he's 21 years old. A bit older than your typical high schooler.


----------



## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> I actually think this team has good identities: They are young & athletic. They should push the ball everytime they get a rebound. But if you play run-n-gun, Amare's effectiveness will get reduced because he can be a monster in half-court sets.


I would compare Amare more to a younger Malone and they ran the ball quite well. Malone was great as a trailer on the break and Amare is much better if he gets the ball before the opposing center gets into the paint.



> Just like the Spurs, obviously TD's supporting cast can play faster pace, like what they're showing now with TD out, but they have to play a slower style because TD is the man on this team. Everybody fits in with the team's superstar.


Duncan is not that great on the break. Amare can be.



> Same case in Phoenix, but Barboso, though talented, was clueless most of the time.


Barbosa looked very good agains the Rockets. He has a long way to go, but he shows flashes of real talent.



> Joe Johnson plays great but he doesn't have helps. Marion, I've said it few times, is a 3rd offensive option at best. Don't count on him to produce that correlates to the team's win/loss column.


All Marion does is rebound, block shots, make steals, plays defense, closes on the fast break, and scores when he is in the paint. In the last four games he hit 11 of 21 three point shots.

How does this NOT help to improve the team's win/loss column?



> The Suns Cs are smalish but athletic, which IMO actually fits in quite well with Amare but none of them are starting material.


Compared to whom? The Suns are inexperienced, but they have a number of players who are not only "starting material" but promise to be quite good.


> The bottom line is, this is a very young team that don't know how to win on a regular basis. Including Amare himself, these kids produce nice individual stats but don't expect to see many of those Joe Johnson's last-second shot last night. They are coming along but just not there yet.


That is certainly true. The Suns need to make some moves over the summer, but I really like the core. They may not be that far from being a very competitive team.


----------



## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>azirishmusic</b>!
> 
> Barbosa looked very good agains the Rockets. He has a long way to go, but he shows flashes of real talent.


I agree. Look at his stat line for the game:

14 points (5-11 FGM-A, 3-6 3GM-A), 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals (career high), 2 TO, in 33 minutes.


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>azirishmusic</b>!
> I would compare Amare more to a younger Malone and they ran the ball quite well. Malone was great as a trailer on the break and Amare is much better if he gets the ball before the opposing center gets into the paint.
> 
> 
> ...


Now I ask you: Do you want Amare to compromise his game to fit in to an unproven system, or do you want to build around Amare, from the system to the pieces?

That's the thing, if the Suns regconize Amare as their future, they should do anything they can to put the most suitable system for him. I happened to think more half-court sets could benefit Amare.




> Barbosa looked very good agains the Rockets. He has a long way to go, but he shows flashes of real talent.


Keywords here are *long way*, which is promising but nothing to get too excited about.




> All Marion does is rebound, block shots, make steals, plays defense, closes on the fast break, and scores when he is in the paint. In the last four games he hit 11 of 21 three point shots.
> 
> How does this NOT help to improve the team's win/loss column?


Yes they helped. What I was trying to say is that you don't expect Shawn to carry a team like great ones did. You don't expect Shawn to hit last second shots on regular basis. Heck, you don't even pass the ball to him many times during last seconds. I think Shawn is an over-achiever offensively, but he doesn't have the ability to carry a team on his shoulder. The Suns don't live and die by Shawn's production, that's what I meant.




> Compared to whom? The Suns are inexperienced, but they have a number of players who are not only "starting material" but promise to be quite good.
> 
> That is certainly true. The Suns need to make some moves over the summer, but I really like the core. They may not be that far from being a very competitive team.


Again, I don't believe in a 'promising' team with a bunch of 'potentially good' players. More often than not, only one or two will be with this team when they reached their high. The rest will be long gone for any reasons: Money, playing time, roles, bust, etc. What I see the Suns right now, is simply Amare+a bunch of cap space.


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> 
> Yes they helped. What I was trying to say is that you don't expect Shawn to carry a team like great ones did. You don't expect Shawn to hit last second shots on regular basis. Heck, you don't even pass the ball to him many times during last seconds. I think Shawn is an over-achiever offensively, but he doesn't have the ability to carry a team on his shoulder. The Suns don't live and die by Shawn's production, that's what I meant.
> 
> Again, I don't believe in a 'promising' team with a bunch of 'potentially good' players. More often than not, only one or two will be with this team when they reached their high. The rest will be long gone for any reasons: Money, playing time, roles, bust, etc. What I see the Suns right now, is simply Amare+a bunch of cap space.


I agree with the first paragraph. For all the thing that Shawn does, asking him to be a #1 offensive option who scores 25ppg is too much. However, calling this team Amare + a bunch of cap is crazy. Marion, despite this being his worst season since his rookie year IMO, is STLL one of the top 3 or 4 small forwards in the league. He does so many things for this team outside of scoring, that I truly think we'd be far more lost than we are now (though that might not be saying so much) without him. And Johnson is only one year older than Amare, and he is a consistant jump shot away (not saying it will ever happen, but even if not he's a good enough player now) from being a star player.

We need direction and time more than anything. A half court offense where we know what we want to do, and do it. Oh yeah, and someone needs to preach to these kids the meaning of defense. We have two or three guys who play it, and the rest could give a lick.

And I'm going to say it - Zarko sucks. Maybe not forever, maybe he just needs to get his confidence back, but the way he's played since coming back from his injury has been crap. He can't shoot, yet he seems to think he's a #1 scoring option, doesn't play tough, and is skinnier than I was in 3rd grade. I'm not giving up on him or anything, but he needs to grow some balls and be a man. Stuff happens, you can't let a broken bone ruin your career when you're so young and talented.


----------



## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> 
> And I'm going to say it - Zarko sucks. Maybe not forever, maybe he just needs to get his confidence back, but the way he's played since coming back from his injury has been crap. He can't shoot, yet he seems to think he's a #1 scoring option, doesn't play tough, and is skinnier than I was in 3rd grade. I'm not giving up on him or anything, but he needs to grow some balls and be a man. Stuff happens, you can't let a broken bone ruin your career when you're so young and talented.


Usually the worst kind of injury a player can have is to something in the legs - knee, ankle, etc. But for Zarko, he would have been better off with an ankle injury. Then at least he could lift weights and get stronger. As it is, his wrist injury took away his shooting stroke and his upper body may be weaker than at the start of the season.

Zarko should be concerned about how well Lampe played against the Clippers. Right now it looks like Lampe is closer to being ready than Zarko.


----------



## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with the first paragraph. For all the thing that Shawn does, asking him to be a #1 offensive option who scores 25ppg is too much. However, calling this team Amare + a bunch of cap is crazy. Marion, despite this being his worst season since his rookie year IMO, is STLL one of the top 3 or 4 small forwards in the league. He does so many things for this team outside of scoring, that I truly think we'd be far more lost than we are now (though that might not be saying so much) without him. And Johnson is only one year older than Amare, and he is a consistant jump shot away (not saying it will ever happen, but even if not he's a good enough player now) from being a star player.
> ...



I agree to an extent.


Also, about Marion.. The guy is 3rd in steals. He is even ahead of the so called "Best defensive" player on the planet, Ron Artest.

Marion also averages more defensive rebound and block shots. We all know Ron Artest has more intangibles on the defensive end, but Shawn Marion is only inches behind him in terms of defensive presence.


----------



## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>1 Penny</b>!
> Also, about Marion.. The guy is 3rd in steals. He is even ahead of the so called "Best defensive" player on the planet, Ron Artest.
> 
> Marion also averages more defensive rebound and block shots. We all know Ron Artest has more intangibles on the defensive end, but Shawn Marion is only inches behind him in terms of defensive presence.


Marion is a mixed bag on defense. He is too easily faked out of position by head fakes and leaves his feet too much. But he is an outstanding ball hawk and shot blocker. I'd like to see him improve his fundimental defense, but he is still well above average.


----------

