# Game 28: Los Angeles Lakers (15-12) @ Toronto Raptors (9-19) [2/12]



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*@*


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Early tip-off tomorrow. 10:00 a.m. PT. End of the road trip. I have no expectations either way at this point. If we win, I won't be surprised. If we lose, I still won't be surprised.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I'd call this one should and almost must


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

we gotta win this one. Bynum should be able to impose his will on the game. The Raptors did beat the Celtics the other day and Calderone is another pick and roll nightmare waiting to happen. I expect victory.

I expect when we get back home a move or to happens in the next week.


----------



## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Every game seems like a must-win now.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I think we should steal Calderon on the way out of town


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Good 1st quarter!


----------



## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Crappy 2nd quarter...and these announcers for the Raptors are killing me.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

why is fisher sagging off Calderon like 15' on that play?


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

why is Fisher going under that screen?

please take fisher out of the game and dont put him back in until the last minute of the 4th quarter if at all


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

please?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

**** this shit....blow this ****ing team up.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

WTF

Metta hits two 3's IN THE SAME GAME

Bench has 24 points

And we are still losing to a horrible team without Barganani and Bayless!

Kobe has been horrible in the last 5 minutes of games all season long. Here comes 3 other forced shots in the final two minutes. Maybe we'll get lucky and Pau or Bynum will bail us out again with an offensive board.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Kobe shooting his team out of another game.


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

Pathetic. This team is painful to watch.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

ceejaynj said:


> Crappy 2nd quarter...and these announcers for the Raptors are killing me.


Matt Devlin has been my least favorite announcer for about 10 years (BANG ON!) and the other guy sounds like some guido.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Bynum disappearing - Kobe going into hero mode - no semblance of an offensive set - wasted trips down the court - cant handle the zone - yep, blow it up and fire the coach while you're at it because he's not doing anything about it


----------



## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Geeze...this is so typical. Lose the lead down the stretch...then stand around and watch Kobe try to bail us out. This routine is just nauseating already.


----------



## M.V.W. (Apr 2, 2011)

Jamel Irief said:


> *WTF
> 
> Metta hits two 3's IN THE SAME GAME
> 
> ...


You can't make sense of it.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Oh we give it Pau so that he can abuse Klezia! Doesn't seem that brilliant but for some reason we didn't think of it.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

good point from Stu - the lakers havent been able to change up defenses - they go man to man and that's it - I thought Brown was a defensive mastermind?


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

e-monk said:


> good point from Stu - the lakers havent been able to change up defenses - they go man to man and that's it - I thought Brown was a defensive mastermind?


Yeah it's like the Philly game, and the New York game. Give the ball to Williams-Lin-Calderon in the final minutes and let them roast us one-on-one.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

And the hero comes through!


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

even so I dont care - even if they do manage to hold on here they're terrible and someone needs to do something 

(if this is the product you're putting on the floor you cant charge those ticket prices, you cant get those big tv contracts - just a note to Jimmy)


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

oh look another point guard treating the lakers like he's michael jordan


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

They aren't terrible. You need less than two fingers to count the teams in the West clearly better this year. I know we are spoiled Laker fans but we can curb the dramatics and hyperbole occasionally.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

another good stu point - foul to give - waited way too long - another great moment in mike brown's coaching career


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Karma will still probably lose us this game... karma for letting this be a game


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Jamel Irief said:


> They aren't terrible. You need less than two fingers to count the teams in the West clearly better this year. I know we are spoiled Laker fans but we can curb the dramatics and hyperbole occasionally.


do you have any idea how bad the Raptors are AND they're missing thier best player AND this is pretty close to a must win for us AND they had a day's rest AND an 18 point lead?

(btw neat trick we're 7 seeds but somehow you can count to 6 on two fingers - are you just alternating: 1-2-3-4-5-6?)


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

I've been clinging to the hope that this is all because of fatigue but this team just isn't very good. Brown's coaching just isn't suited for this team either. Honestly I think we would have better results by going back to the triangle.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Finally a game where Kobe-ball worked.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

e-monk said:


> do you have any idea how bad the Raptors are AND they're missing thier best player AND this is pretty close to a must win for us AND they had a day's rest AND an 18 point lead?
> 
> (btw neat trick we're 7 seeds but somehow you can count to 6 on two fingers - are you just alternating: 1-2-3-4-5-6?)


Nah, if you think a team being 1.5 games better makes all the difference in the world I'll leave you alone with your thoughts.

All it takes is for the Blazers to go on a 5 games in 7 night East coast trip and suddenly they are terrible.

EDIT- I just looked and the Blazers are behind us. Today they need to blow it up, win 3 in a row and they are back to OK though.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

if only because at one point in there Pau kept it himself, worked Klieza and dumped it to Drew for the dunk...


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Jamel Irief said:


> Nah, if you think a team being 1.5 games better makes all the difference in the world I'll leave you alone with your thoughts.
> 
> All it takes is for the Blazers to go on a 5 games in 7 night East coast trip and suddenly they are terrible.


the blazers have a future - as configured at the moment all we have is a past and if you think we can compete with what we've got now you're delusional - right now unless they address the PG issue what we have to look forward to is 3 years from now when Kobe and Pau come off the books and after several years of diminishing returns we can sign some free agents

now mind you it wouldnt take much - the right deal for a pick and the TPE could really make a difference but standing pat is not an option 

our big 3 are as good as anyone's I firmly believe that but they have the least amount of support of any other big 3 in the league

and the coach doesnt seem to understand how to even use what he has (points to him for taking Fisher out and never putting him back in that was good thinking) when you have a gaping flesh wound at PG maybe double the guy (all of them) who is having a career night and force the ball out of his hands?

as of now Kobe and Pau are playing way too many minutes because we have no one else to do a damn thing - so they're going to be junked by the time we get to the play offs - do we really want our 30+ year olds leading the league in minutes played?

but like I said it wouldnt take much, Barbosa and Calderon would make us contenders - sessions and arenas (maybe?) might - might?

and also **** Jim Buss for not hiring Adleman because a) strike shortened season is no time to completely overhaul the offense when you dont have the right players to run the new one and no time to practice it anyway and b) Adleman is clearly the better coach, just is, just friggin duh may you never make another team decision ever again Buss because right now **** - your dad knows enought to let the basketball minds do the basketball thinking - please go find another way to put your finger prints on this organization (maybe by being the guy who knew enough to let well enough alone?)


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

another roller coaster game Kobe saved us in the end after putting us in peril but he made 3 great plays to win it the 3 the steal and pass and the dagger game winner. 

Bynum is frustrating me he was going good early then they bring in the physical Maglore and Bynum couldn't make a simple play then physical centers bother him.We shoulda put Gasol in the post way more then. we aren't terrible we just lack depth. Brown has gotta do something about our pg defense giving up 30+ the last 2 games is unacceptable we gotta trap these pg's. 

we gotta give Goudelock more pt he is getting buckets for us.


----------



## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> Bynum is frustrating me he was going good early then they bring in the physical Maglore and Bynum couldn't make a simple play then physical centers bother him...we gotta give Goudelock more pt he is getting buckets for us.


Drew's major problem is that he doesn't know how to get in good position down low. If he was able to get the ball 5 ft. from the hoop every time, he would be dominant. Part of his problem is we don't have a PG who can get him the ball deep in the box. Goudelock has to get more playing time...no doubt about it. I have been saying that most of the season. The kid can only improve. Seems like a no-brainer. However, we're just fans...what do we know???


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Drew is either tiring out or tuning out late and this seems to coincide when what's his name goes into Hero mode and we stop running the offense at all - the one time Pau said f- it and turned and initiated the drive look what happened - there's our guy at the front of the cup for the dunk


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

e-monk said:


> Drew is either tiring out or tuning out late and this seems to coincide when what's his name goes into Hero mode and we stop running the offense at all - the one time Pau said f- it and turned and initiated the drive look what happened - there's our guy at the front of the cup for the dunk


Drew is only scoring now when he gets lobs or spoonfed for dunks thats not easy to set up if he's not getting deep position, so Kobe has gotta shoot it. Until Bynum becomes that guy who can score more reliably 1on1 we're gonna go away from him. 

Pau finally decided to stop airballin the mid range shot and drove and spoonfed Bynum again I wish Pau would stop shooting that mid range crap and drive. 

But thankfully Kobe bailed us out and we got the win.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

teams are taking Bynum out of the game by running zones at us which apparently we dont know how to attack - maybe because Kobe never went to college? or maybe because our coach is over-matched?

and Pau nailed several mid-range shots so I dont know what you're talking about there - late all Pau did was wait for Kobe to clear and gave him the ball


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Kobe's idea of a pick and roll seems to be run up to pau for the hand off and then look for a 'Shaun White' degree of difficulty shot that will help him cement his legacy


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

e-monk said:


> teams are taking Bynum out of the game by running zones at us which apparently we dont know how to attack - maybe because Kobe never went to college? or maybe because our coach is over-matched?
> 
> and Pau nailed several mid-range shots so I dont know what you're talking about there - late all Pau did was wait for Kobe to clear and gave him the ball


I guess you didn't see the airballs Pau threw over the basket on the mid range shots.

zone didn't take Bynum out of the game Maglore putting the body on him and then Gray doing the same thing late Bynum scored every basket he made tonight being set up for a dunk or layup otherwise he missed on his own post moves.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

e-monk said:


> Kobe's idea of a pick and roll seems to be run up to pau for the hand off and then look for a 'Shaun White' degree of difficulty shot that will help him cement his legacy


you think that little of Kobe really. I saw him make a 3 to bring us within 1 then make a great defensive play ad then hit Metta for a layup then make a clutch jumper to win the game. 

thats what I saw he runs pick and roll with Gaol all the time and Pau misses the shot or gets tenative alot of the time late. so why not shoot why wait for a soft dude to decide they wanna be aggressive. 

Kobe's legacy is built on making game winners like he did today.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

jazzy1 said:


> I guess you didn't see the airballs Pau threw over the basket on the mid range shots.


Gasol made several open mid range shots over the course of the game - he took maybe 1 or none during the last 6 minutes when Kobe was doing his usual - this is when we're talking about afterall



> zone didn't take Bynum out of the game Maglore putting the body on him and then Gray doing the same thing late Bynum scored every basket he made tonight being set up for a dunk or layup otherwise he missed on his own post moves.


Bynum used Gray early which is why they had to go to Magloire - Bynum had a great start and they had to adjust to him and one of those adjustments was the zone - dont blame me if you dont know what you are lookiing at


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

e-monk said:


> jazzy1 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess you didn't see the airballs Pau threw over the basket on the mid range shots.
> ...


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Kobe doin' work. 2-4 on his shirt. He's on the greatest on the court and everyone on Toronto sucks


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Had to listen to this on radio today. Couldn't believe what was going on at the end but luckily we pulled through and got the W. Disappointed that we blew an 18-point lead, though.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

jazzy1 said:


> e-monk said:
> 
> 
> > jazzy1 said:
> ...


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

jazzy1 said:


> you think that little of Kobe really. I saw him make a 3 to bring us within 1 then make a great defensive play ad then hit Metta for a layup then make a clutch jumper to win the game.
> 
> thats what I saw he runs pick and roll with Gaol all the time and Pau misses the shot or gets tenative alot of the time late. so why not shoot why wait for a soft dude to decide they wanna be aggressive.
> 
> Kobe's legacy is built on making game winners like he did today.


really? then his legacy is also built on the 3 minutes of fruitless uber difficulty BS he produced leading up to that game winner - seriously did you just tune in in the last minute?


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

e-monk said:


> teams are taking Bynum out of the game by running zones at us which apparently we dont know how to attack - maybe because Kobe never went to college? or maybe because our coach is over-matched?


I'm assuming the Kobe reference isn't serious. But I hope you aren't serious in suggesting that an NBA coach with multiple 60 win seasons and a Finals appearance doesn't know how to handle a zone.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

> Lakers 94, Raptors 92:* Kobe Bryant Rescues Lakers From Kobe Bryant*


http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/...2-kobe-bryant-rescues-lakers-from-kobe-bryant

dont take my word for it:



> In a game in which the Los Angeles Lakers led by as much as 18 points, the purple and gold needed every bit of a heroic last minute of basketball from their fearless leader, Kobe Bryant. Kobe had six points, a steal, and an assist in the final minute to turn a 4 point deficit into a 2 point win. And Kobe needed to be fearless in order to accomplish the feat, because the Lakers were only in the position of needing that kind of heroic effort because Kobe Bryant put them there with a slew of terrible 4th quarter possessions in which Bryant dominated the ball. *From the six minute mark, the Raptors went on a 12-2 run while Kobe missed 5 straight shots of increasing difficulty, and without this particularly brutal stretch of Hero ball, the Lakers might never have needed the actual Hero ball at the end*.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> But I hope you aren't serious in suggesting that an NBA coach with multiple 60 win seasons and a Finals appearance doesn't know how to handle a zone.


what have you seen from this team that would suggest anything to the contrary? what have you seen from this coach that would suggest anything to the contrary? - I could probably have coached Lebron James to 60 wins and a finals appearance that season + I'd look better in a suit


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

e-monk said:


> what have you seen from this team that would suggest anything to the contrary? what have you seen from this coach that would suggest anything to the contrary? - I could probably have coached Lebron James to 60 wins and a finals appearance that season + I'd look better in a suit


Brown isn't the problem. The problem is the lack of talent. And they didn't win 60 games the year they made the Finals.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

It's pretty simple. We have 3 stars and zero bench, and two of those stars are aging. If one of the 3 stars doesn't show up then we're losing. We need Kobe, Bynum and Gasol to play out there minds to make up for the lack of support.


----------



## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Brown does not get a free pass from me. He is at least partially responsible for all the Kobeball we play at the end of games.

Its got to stop. we need to continue running an offense at the end of games.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Brown isn't the problem. The problem is the lack of talent. And they didn't win 60 games the year they made the Finals.


ok so they lack talent, you're right - so why does this defensive mastermind run a man up defense and not double or otherwise make adjustments when our wholly inadequate PG is getting torched (which is every day)? (btw this is a point Stu made yesterday - where is the change up? where is the adjustment?)

Adleman was clearly the better choice (look what he's doing with a whole lot less)


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

e-monk said:


> really? then his legacy is also built on the 3 minutes of fruitless uber difficulty BS he produced leading up to that game winner - seriously did you just tune in in the last minute?


I actually watched the whole game and I watched maglore push Bynum around so who exactly was Kobe supposed to be passing to. Gasol had no interes in being in the paint. Kobe forced some shots up we get nothing easy regardless of however we attack but you bringing Kobe's legacy into a discussion of the last couple minutes of last nights game is just foolish. 

again Kobe came through when we needed to win the game no one else on the team coulda done what he did to save the team. 

He wasn't the sole reason we lost the big lead but he was part of it and he took some bad shots but he saved the day.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

elcap15 said:


> Brown does not get a free pass from me. He is at least partially responsible for all the Kobeball we play at the end of games.
> 
> Its got to stop. we need to continue running an offense at the end of games.


and this was different with Phil jackson man come on. shall I post all the game winners Kobe hit with PJ as coach you think that wasn't Kobe ball lol

come on.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> It's pretty simple. We have 3 stars and zero bench, and two of those stars are aging. If one of the 3 stars doesn't show up then we're losing. We need Kobe, Bynum and Gasol to play out there minds to make up for the lack of support.


this is it in a nutshell we have 3 good players 1 great player, one really good one in Gasol and one real solid one in Bynum. 

we gotta find the balance in all 3 of them being ver productive ad pray we play good enough deense to drag a team close to 90 o so to win. 

we have lost games this year with all 3 productive . 

we need more talent its that simple.


----------



## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

jazzy1 said:


> and this was different with Phil jackson man come on. shall I post all the game winners Kobe hit with PJ as coach you think that wasn't Kobe ball lol
> 
> come on.


It was different under PJ. Im not upset about Kobe taking the last shot, or even that last couple shots. I hate it how the last 5 minutes of every game seem to be Kobe in iso and every other player on the court only looking to get the ball into Kobe's hands. They need to be more assertive and run an offense, and that starts with Brown.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

elcap15 said:


> It was different under PJ. Im not upset about Kobe taking the last shot, or even that last couple shots. I hate it how the last 5 minutes of every game seem to be Kobe in iso and every other player on the court only looking to get the ball into Kobe's hands. They need to be more assertive and run an offense, and that starts with Brown.


I will say this under PJ Kobe/LO/Pau ran more of a continuity offense where Kobe and Pau would run the pick and roll or Kobe would release it to LO would would work a 2 man game with Pau. But alot of it was Kobe ball. 

With Bynum now and NO LO its harder to because Bynum is always glued to the paint and Pau is not as agile as LO was coming out to get the ball so the bigs are more glued to their positions. 

So Kobe ends up trying to figure something out and with no one on the floor at sf and pg able to hit a sot its Kobe Iso and other dudes looking shook.

Not knocking Brown because with the roster we have its just not as much versatility in what we can do but I see your point. 

maybe he can draw up some variation.


----------

