# Alston and Woods out of starting lineup



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

against Clevland tomorrow, according to Sam Mitchell at press conference after they were not only benched, but kicked off the bench

I can get used to all the losing but this disfunctional s*** is really getting to me

I think just about every starter accept Bosh has been on the coaches s*** list


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Yeah, this is definetly not cool.

Not cool... I liked Mitchell until tonight, but I think he proved tonight that he is way too emotional. WAY too emotional, you can't make decisions like this 5 minutes after the game and announce them to reporters, jesus.


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## Red Rocket (Dec 1, 2004)

Thats sad,wish sam wasnt so emotional...

Whats the starters tommorw, Im hoping this, dont hate me, but im putting Bosh at the C.

Pg-Palacio
Sg-Carter
Sf-Rose
Pf-Bonner
C-Bosh


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I just heard Rafers post game comments  
wooow, WTF happened, I missed most of the game
"tired of dealing with teammates, tired of dealing with coaches"

I don't know what Rafer and Woods said to the refs, but it really seemed to piss off Mitchell

This is a freaking soap opera in Raptorland, will we ever normal again?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

wow...what they did to deserve that I didn't catch the incedent


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## jdg (Jun 13, 2003)

Throw the Red Rocket in the starting line up! It's the only way to turn this ship around!


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> I just heard Rafers post game comments
> wooow, WTF happened, I missed most of the game
> "tired of dealing with teammates, tired of dealing with coaches"
> ...


Rafer and Woods were benched in the third for getting techs for *****ing at the refs... Mitchell was motioning for them to leave the bench and go to the locker room, but they never did, and they never saw the floor again.


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## Red Rocket (Dec 1, 2004)

Ring Em Up... Bonner will do fine...


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Rafer also made many subtle comments, referring to teammates who don't really care about playing b-ball, those who are just about pading stats and not passionate about the game, mentioning Bonner as the only exception


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

I just seen the clip on the score rafer talking about sitting the out the season ...now I ain't hitting the panic button yet but I'am stating to look in that direction


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> I just seen the clip on the score rafer talking about sitting the out the season ...now I ain't hitting the panic button yet but I'am stating to look in that direction


i hate to do this to u guys but...........

I TOLD YOU SOOOO...... from the first time i heard rafer talk about getting benched against New York i saw this coming....this team is just about ready to fall apart....and fall into dismisal....we are in for a LOOOOOOONG years boys (and girls if ther are any)...so get ready.....


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

I don't think its too early to panic now. Get rid of all the bums that are causing these problems for whatever we can get. I don't care if we get ripped off, I'm just sick of these festering offcourt problems.

They're going to turn away all the fans that have stuck with them until now, like me for instance. Don't they care/realize?


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

This whole team is weak, physically and mentally.

I'm pretty disappointed in Rafer. For a guy that "had to work his butt off" to get where he is he sure has let a little success and a fat contract go to his head.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Can someone here confirm this? I heard this on another board:



> when Rafer was being yanked for being off tonight, he took a quick shot when he saw Milt comming in.. then threw the ball accross the court in anger towards mitchell..


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Can someone here confirm this? I heard this on another board:



WOW....this is reallly reallly bad...i new this would happen....i knew this whole Mcloskey hiring his boy Babcock and then Babcock hiring his buddy Mitchell...would never work out....i knew this would end up bad for the raptors....i mean a player throwing a basketball at a coach? thats has to be the worst thing ive ever heard since becoming a raptors fan.....


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

I don't think the ball hit Mitchell or anything... I'm not even sure how close the ball came to him, but I do think he threw the ball across the court in some direction in anger.


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Alston said he was going to take some time to think about whether he's a good fit for the team and the league: ''I may not even play the rest of the season,'' he said.


http://tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=106866

this is very scary......


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## Pejavlade (Jul 10, 2004)

sam mitchell should be fired and vince traded :yes:


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

u gotta respect your coach. If Rafer is playing well I'm sure this wouldn't be happening. I hope Skip comes back and apologize for his comments tomorrow.


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pejavlade</b>!
> sam mitchell should be fired and vince traded :yes:


i agree with the fact that Mitchell should be fired...i dont liek him...i liked how he was handling things before...but now he is getting out of hand....he is talking a little too much...and doing a little too much...he is like a Playing Time Nazi!!!!!!


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=106881



> Woods was repentant, saying, "I let the emotions get the best of me. I lost it, and I lost the game for us."
> 
> But Alston said he wanted to take some time to think about his career.
> 
> ...


 

Does this team actually have some competitive fire?! If Rafer's trying to send a message, hopefully it's heard. If he's just pouting, this is disasterous.


And Mitchell should be fired? He is actually trying to push this team's buttons and expects every player to maximize his potential. The last thing we need is another coaster like Lenny Wilkens, who won't rock the boat or change anyone's habits.

Remember that one time-tested coaching method is to make players hate you and play their guts out to prove you wrong.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

WTF? This ranks up there with Ricky Williams and Ron Artest on the "Bizzare" scale.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

I supported Mitchell until tonight. But he is ultimately responsible for not handling his players properly.

He is an emotional loudmouth and that is not going to cut it. He's had his chance to learn to keep his mouth shut and he hasn't.


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=106881
> 
> 
> ...



i really hope Rafer is trying to light a fire under his team....but i dont think this is the way to do it....i wish he is just being emotinal after a tough loss....but man...that is a sure weird way of showing it....


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

I can see Raf actually meaning this too, based upon his backround in basketball. A lot of the AND1/street ball guys are always claiming they have no interest in playing in the NBA for various reasons...ie. getting into it with your teammates etc. Raf seems like the type of guy that actually plays for enjoyment rather than the bling bling. 

Hey, if he wants to quit and we get our money back, that's fine. Everyone has the right to walk away from their job if they so choose. They just better not expect to be paid for it.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

meh. growing pains. expect plenty more with the upcoming changes.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>adhir</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> WOW....this is reallly reallly bad...i new this would happen....i knew this whole Mcloskey hiring his boy Babcock and then Babcock hiring his buddy Mitchell...would never work out....i knew this would end up bad for the raptors....i mean a player throwing a basketball at a coach? thats has to be the worst thing ive ever heard since becoming a raptors fan.....


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

i dont see a problem with Mitchell and his approach to coaching basketball....

all he wants from his players is disciplined, passionate basketball....if you you're taking 20 foot jumpers with 15 secs still on the clock (ie/ Rose and Carter) or chirping away at the refs instead of concentrating and playing hard at a critical part of the game (as was the case tonight), then by all means Mitchell's actions are well warrented in my opinion....

his coaching style may be harsh but we need the discipline, and if you need to bench players to instill discipline, then so be it....

as for Rafer's comments, its sad to see but if he really wants to leave Toronto or the league then leave now, or deal him...because the next thing that we need on this team is a player that doesnt want to be playing on our team, creating another cancer for this dysfunctional game....


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!


I TOLD U SO!


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>NeoSamurai</b>!
> i dont see a problem with Mitchell and his approach to coaching basketball....
> 
> all he wants from his players is disciplined, passionate basketball....if you you're taking 20 foot jumpers with 15 secs still on the clock (ie/ Rose and Carter) or chirping away at the refs instead of concentrating and playing hard at a critical part of the game (as was the case tonight), then by all means Mitchell's actions are well warrented in my opinion....
> ...


I feel for rafer but I agree with this comment


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>adhir</b>!
> 
> 
> I TOLD U SO!


told me what? your acting like the season over you overeact to much its like your waiting for bad news to strike


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> Rafer also made many subtle comments, referring to teammates who don't really care about playing b-ball, those who are just about pading stats and not passionate about the game, mentioning Bonner as the only exception


this is very much true.

if you've noticed, rafer is often the only one running down the court during each possession, while the ones whom are supposed to be with him (namely rose and carter) are just strutting down the court and parking themselves upon the three point line.

as a result, rafer often puts more pressure upon himself to carry the load of the unit he's leading onto his own hands. that's why we often see him taking more shots instead of setting up his teammates, and mentally, why he pressured himself into becoming accountable for the starters woes.

however, if you place rafer with the second unit, you could see everyone running the court with him, hussling for easy buckets via fast break points. you also see him communicating better with the second unit, resulting in better defensive execution and having other players hold accountable for themselves during defensive breakdowns.

i think rafer's just going through mixed emotions about where he stands with this team. he's so passionate and competitive that he'll take the blame for others when needed be. so much that i think he's lead to believe that the losses were a result of him and how he's not doing enough things right to carry the team to victory. 

it's good that he said he needs some time to think things over to gain a better perspective. i hope he realizes he doesn't need to blame himself for others' mistakes. 

and it's funny how he made the comments about how some people might see him as a dark shadow of the team, often stirring controversies and making his teammates' life difficult, but in my case, he has to be up there in terms of respectability when looking through the this frustrating squad.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> I supported Mitchell until tonight. But he is ultimately responsible for not handling his players properly.
> 
> He is an emotional loudmouth and that is not going to cut it. He's had his chance to learn to keep his mouth shut and he hasn't.


we've gone through 2 coaches who has given up onl this team and a new one who is on his way of getting there...

trust me, mitchell's choice of words might not be the _right_ ones, but let's not hold him accountable for something that's been going on for 2+ years.


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> told me what? your acting like the season over you overeact to much its like your waiting for bad news to strike


when ur freaking starting point guard says he doesnt want to play for ur team anymore...and ur coach is tearing into and benching new damn players every game....u dont see the need to overreact? its time u face the truth man...this team is going absolutely no where....but the lottery....they suck...everybody is on the coaches ***T list....this team has HORRIBLE chemistry....


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>adhir</b>!
> 
> 
> when ur freaking starting point guard says he doesnt want to play for ur team anymore...and ur coach is tearing into and benching new damn players every game....u dont see the need to overreact? its time u face the truth man...this team is going absolutely no where....but the lottery....they suck...everybody is on the coaches ***T list....this team has HORRIBLE chemistry....


 lol oh thats right rafer get fustrated OOPS TIME TO CAN THE SEASON **** like this happen all over the NBA but its just rare cases like this where it gets public I'am sure the losing has played into this if the raps were on a 5 game win streak we woulden't even br talking about this right now yes the do have chemistry issue but to say the team sucks and just give up is weak espically when you look at the situation around them


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Everything is totally blowing out of proportion.
Give this team a break, as skywalker said, it's just growing pains. It's the team's second 6 game road trip and they haven't even played 20 games in the season yet, things like this are bound to happen when they start losing.

Rafer was out of hand tonight, but can you blame him? He's a passionate player, a passionate person, and I think he let his emotions get the better of him tonight.

As for Mitchell, he may have overreacted, but I really think that he is doing the right thing. 

We just have to stick by our team, it's a long season, we are bound to have our fair share of ups and downs.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> Everything is totally blowing out of proportion.
> Give this team a break, as skywalker said, it's just growing pains. It's the team's second 6 game road trip and they haven't even played 20 games in the season yet, things like this are bound to happen when they start losing.
> 
> ...


I agree that it is far less impactful than it seems right now, while the blood is still wet. But it's still newsworthy. It's not like the article about Vince shunning his grandmother that appeared in the Star many moons ago.

Besides, when players say things as outrageous as "I feel like quitting", they should expect the fans and the media to react. Think about how much press Artest and McGrady got for making similar comments.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Wow honestly now i am worried about this tea, VC not trying, Bosh struggling, Rose's huge contract, Alston maybe not coming back

I hate to say it but i am starting to lose faith in mitchell, now i know it is not his fault about VC and Rose but the rest he can control.

I'll give him some more time and hopefully TD is right and he just overreacted and same with alston


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I like Woods' attitude tonight, he was frustrated because he was getting called for too many fouls, and he got a tech.
After the game he admitted that he overreacted and that he let the team down.
I'm really starting to like this kid.
It doesn't look like he'll be starting but I do expect him to make an apperance in the game, we're going to need him.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

maybe refer just over reacted about not playing again and was just calling out carter? 

i know it's unlikly but i thought we could use some positve thinking here


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

This is just ridiculous. Who the hell is going to play?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike1155</b>!
> This is just ridiculous. Who the hell is going to play?


Good question!

Expect to see Milt start at the 1 if everything isn't settled by tomorrow. As for the 5, expect to see Bonner or Marshall injected into the starting lineup and Bosh moved-over. Either that or start Araujo, which I think is very unlikely.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I'm pretty confident we will have a Loren Woods sighting tomorrow, but I'm not so sure about Rafer. 
I'm sure they will get everything resolved soon though, and Rafer will be back to being our starting point guard shortly.


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Good question!
> ...


Milt a starter? not good at all. I like Sam but he has certainly painted himself into a corner & is hindering his team's chances to win by doing this. This team is fragile as it is & another loss isn't going to help things.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike1155</b>!
> 
> 
> Milt a starter? not good at all. I like Sam but he has certainly painted himself into a corner & is hindering his team's chances to win by doing this. This team is fragile as it is & another loss isn't going to help things.


you can't forget that these players are professionals. don't expect to take them lightly. it is up to the coach to discipline their players, and it's up to the players to live up to the coach.

some of sam's methods are questionable, but at least he's pushing his players to make them more competitive.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> some of sam's methods are questionable, but at least he's pushing his players to make them more competitive.


ya he is trying to get them to be more competetive but he is trying to hard, one of our best players is thinking about calling it quits


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Rafer isn't going to quit.
He's just very emotional, and it was all in the heat of the moment. Loren Woods even said Rafer isn't that kind of person that would quit like that.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I didn't read the entire thread, just the first two pages, but...

1. We lost a game we should have won - Rafer, Woods, and Sam were all large contributors.

2. Rafer played like crap last night, he's bound to be pissed.

3. Sam over-reacting over a technical foul and playing Rafer & Woods off the bench is not going to help anything.

4. TRADE VINCE NOW. If Rafer's talking about players who don't care, then you KNOW he's talking about Vince.

5. Sam Mitchell shouldn't be fired, but he should take a good look in the mirror next time he has a chance. Has he ever seen a coach react to technical fouls like that, especially towards two of his hardest working players? If Vince & Jalen got T'd up and he told <i>them</i> to go to the bench, I'd understand. But Alston & Woods? Doesn't make much sense to me.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

This seems like a mess from a fans perspective, but I hope it's water under the bridge for Mitchell and Rafer

either way it's going to be a coooold locker room, let's see if this lights a fire under the alleged slackers and stat padders to show thier worth


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

I guess the team was starting a rebuilding stage, obviously with the new coach and GM, then the Star player wanting to be traded, so i guess we have now reached rock bottom and so the rebuilding can really start now. 
Its better to build the team from the bottom up anyways, Babs and Mitchell are breaking down the culture of the team and trying to institute one of hard work, and anytime you try and change the culture and history of any organization its always a mess.
Hopefully they can pull this off and well be better in the long run


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Do you guys think Larry Brown is an easy coach to play for? He gets on guys like nobody else in the league. He calls out guys to the media all the time.

Do you guys think Jerry Sloan is Mr. Nice Guy and has been loved by all his players. No chance. 

What about Hubie Brown?

Would any of these guys just let players hurt their team like Woods and Alston did with their stupid selfish technical fouls and not punish them in any way. Hell no.

Sam Mitchell is establishing discipline and accountabilty to this team.

KO was the big tough guy with Moiso, MasonJr, and Murray but he was the biggest suck-up ever when it came to Vince and Jalen. In the end neither the stars nor the scrubs respected KO. Vince was running his own system for the last month or two. And the bench didn't even feel like part of the team.

Lenny was in a coma for two years and let the players run the show.

Sam is holding every player accountable for their actions. You help the team, you play. You hurt the team, you sit. You earn your PT. Big changes like that take time to establish. Mitchell is breaking his players of selfish habits now and building a TEAM first mentality.

Technical fouls are selfish plays that can only hurt the TEAM. Inexcusable.

The next time a Raptor player thinks of throwing a ball into the stands or berating an official in a close 'must-win' ballgame they will think twice.

Just like the Artest suspension will keep players out of the stands.

Winning teams are disciplined teams.


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> Do you guys think Larry Brown is an easy coach to play for? He gets on guys like nobody else in the league. He calls out guys to the media all the time.
> 
> Do you guys think Jerry Sloan is Mr. Nice Guy and has been loved by all his players. No chance.
> ...


a very good post without a doubt...i never thought about it like that....however...even though Mitchell might be instituting a team first attitute....i dont think ive ever seen LB or Jerry Sloan bench a player for his technical fouls....think about the series between Chicago and Jazz...where Rodman and and Malone where going after each other..there must of been a lot of technical fouls in that game..but i dont think that Malone ever got Benched...Mitchell must understand that the players get edgy too...especially two of the most hard working and emotinal (Rafer) players on the team..and their emotins willl get the most of them sometimes....hell i play basketball everyday...and i get into fights with my closest friends so many times...but its in all fairness...emotions are very hard to contain...especially in the raptors case as they were mentally tired and loosing on the road...


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> Do you guys think Larry Brown is an easy coach to play for? He gets on guys like nobody else in the league. He calls out guys to the media all the time.
> 
> Do you guys think Jerry Sloan is Mr. Nice Guy and has been loved by all his players. No chance.
> ...


A good post, however you and Mitchell seem to forget one thing. Your players need to feel like they are trusted. They can't be on the floor scared of being disciplined all the time, or they're going to be playing to please the coach, not to win.

Sitting a player for the rest of a game after he gets a technical does not establish trust. And trust is what you need if you want a player to play to the best of his ability and to help the team as much as possible. Just like he has to know if he goes for a steal and gets burned, his teammates are going to be there behind him, he needs to know that if he makes a mistake or two his coach will be behind him and let him make up for it, rather than getting sat down on the bench.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Trust goes both ways. The coach has to trust his players not to selfishly go off on refs and get techs when they're on the floor.

People don't seem to be able to look at this issue from both sides. They either see it totally from Mitchell's POV or from the player's POV.

Its a two way street, there are more factors in play than most people seem to realize or be willing to admit.


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## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

Lucky, as per usual, I agree with you 100%. 

However the one thing that concerns me is that Mitchell attempted to send the two players to the locker room. An extreme overreaction. 

People in general will not react positively to an extreme emotional response. People respond to consistent, predictable consequences. Mitchell's approach has been more sporadic than the strict methodology of the Larry's Brown's and Jerry Sloan's of the world.

I like Mitchell's philosophy however I question his methods. I'm not sure the raptor's players know how they will be treated in each situation.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Mitchell is a new coach, of course he is unpredictable. He is setting the precidents for punishment with what he is doing right now.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *DAllatt !*
> I like Mitchell's philosophy however I question his methods.


Summed up well. You can see he makes some decisions, whether it be substitutions and benchings, to post game comments based on raw emotion...So far it has served to alientate himself from much of his starters

Good philosophy, but as DAllatt mentioned he is going about it the wrong way

I am taking a stand and sticking up for Mitchell, we as Raptor fans have made it an official sport, blaming the coach (I've done it too). This is is the third coach in as many years and I am starting to think it is the players, not the coach


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I agree that Mitchell does need to demonstrate the same level of self-control that he is asking of his players.

Sending them to the locker room was extreme, but the announce team did mention that Woods and Alston may have still been sniping at the refs from the bench which would set Mitchell off like that. If that wasn't the case then he did overreact and not let it go soon enough.

But I do think Mitchell has been pretty predictable and steady with his players from game one. They should have no doubt about what Sam wants from them imo. He has treated everyone equally and has stuck with his same 10 guys every game, adjusting the minutes based on quality of play. He has made every Raptor accountable for their time on the court. And he always gives you another chance to improve your play.

Sam has shown great trust in the second unit and you can bet they respect his ways. And Sam has given the first unit every opportunity to pull their weight. No drastic changes to the lineup at all.

Mitchell has never gone after a player for one or two mistakes. He disciplined Rafer and Loren for their unprofessional behaviour, not a bad shot or missed boxout. Big difference. Every player makes basketball mistakes on the court.

Artest was suspended by Indiana just for talking about his music CD and perhaps requesting time off. And he had been nothing but a warrior for them on the court before that.

Rafer and Woods hurt their team on the court and put their need to vent above the good of the team. The message needed to be sent that it would not be tolerated. Message has been sent and recieved I believe.

Parents shouldn't yell at their kids but sometimes that's the only thing that gets kids to pay attention and realize they aren't joking around.

I know that some of the best teachers I ever had were people I hated at the time. Sam is creating an environment for the future where every new Raptor that comes in here will be met with a disciplined structure that demands accountability.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> Do you guys think Larry Brown is an easy coach to play for? He gets on guys like nobody else in the league. He calls out guys to the media all the time.
> 
> Do you guys think Jerry Sloan is Mr. Nice Guy and has been loved by all his players. No chance.
> ...


This post makes me feel good about Mitchell as a fan. :yes: Although this will make our team more disciplined and therefor more efficient you gotta wonder just how far Mitchell is pushing these guys down. What if they don't climb back up ready to prove him wrong? Rafer sounded pretty serious. I say let Mitchell continue what he is doing (minus bashing the players in the media) and hope he doesn't burn too many bridges.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> 
> 
> This post makes me feel good about Mitchell as a fan. :yes: Although this will make our team more disciplined and therefor more efficient you gotta wonder just how far Mitchell is pushing these guys down. What if they don't climb back up ready to prove him wrong? Rafer sounded pretty serious. I say let Mitchell continue what he is doing (minus bashing the players in the media) and hope he doesn't burn too many bridges.


I don't think that's his game. Mitchell is not going to break Rafer and guys like Moiso can only improve their contribution to the team. Rafer's got a long season ahead of him but it will be one of him leading our team, especially with Vince's departure. It might not all be pretty but Rafer is being given the chance to be the man. 20 points and 10 assists in his "comeback" game is a nice start.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I thought he wasn't playing the rest of the season guys? 
What happend to those trade threads about Rafer? 

:laugh:


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## kmart9 (Oct 31, 2004)

what the hell was sam mitchell thinking when he started two of our weakest bench players. Im still having a hard time figuring it out. Marshall and bonner would have been a better choice.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kmart9</b>!
> what the hell was sam mitchell thinking when he started two of our weakest bench players. Im still having a hard time figuring it out. Marshall and bonner would have been a better choice.


Yes it took me by surprise aswell. 
I guess he was just giving them both an opportunity to see what they could do. He knew that he was going to get the production out of Donyell, and Bonner, and he was aware of their effectiveness off the bench, and didn't want to change that I guess.


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## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes it took me by surprise aswell.
> I guess he was just giving them both an opportunity to see what they could do. He knew that he was going to get the production out of Donyell, and Bonner, and he was aware of their effectiveness off the bench, and didn't want to change that I guess.


He just didn't want change the rotation of the bench. If he had started Bonner and Marshall who would come of the bench to sub them? No one. Thats why he went with Moiso and Arujuo first, and saw nothing out of them then used Marshall and Bonner in the rotation for most of the game.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Mitchell actually had a strategy.

In the post game he said he wanted to neutralize the Cavs fast break by going hard at the offensive boards with a big lineup of Bosh, Moiso, and Hoffa.

Unfortunately it just didn't work at all. At least he tries some things instead of just stubbornly sticking with a losing game plan like KO or Lenny.

I expect that is the last we will see of Jerome Moiso until he is traded. Sam will just play Hoffa when he needs a fourth big.

After the trade deadline if Moiso is still here he likely goes on IR and Sow becomes the 5th big on the bench.


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