# Why are people writing off Duke



## #1BucksFan (Apr 14, 2003)

They still have Reddick, Ewing, and Williams, they only lost Duhon, and their biggest loss was Livingston going to the draft out of high school. They made the final 4 last year, and as long as coach K is there, they should be top 10. Please give me a reason that they are so low.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

They are not going to finish in the top 5 in the ACC. No frontcourt depth. None. Reggie Love is their frontcourt depth, not gonna work.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> They are not going to finish in the top 5 in the ACC. No frontcourt depth. None. Reggie Love is their frontcourt depth, not gonna work.


i'll take that bet. i do think the acc is deep but people seem to forget this is an elite program with probably the best college coach ever. i think there will be games where their lack of depth will cost them but out of the top 5 isnt going to happen. their guard situation with ewing,reddick,dockery and nelson is excellant and with williams and randolph they may have the best low post duo in the country. mclure and melchioni should be able to give them solid play off the bench. i learned a long time ago(with my wallet), dont bet against duke. remember this is a team that was probably a missed open jumper away from being the national champ.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I disagree with people writing them off as well. Ewing is scary good, i hate reddick but he ain't shabby, and She-Will is one of the best post players in the nation. I hate Shav too but i expect him to play alot better this year. They have a deadly starting rotation, which should be good enough for 4th or 5th in the ACC. ratface isnt the best ever, but he has burned my wallet with too many bets as well to blow him off.

But dont forget that they lost Deng too, that was maybe a bigger loss than ribs.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> They are not going to finish in the top 5 in the ACC. No frontcourt depth. None. Reggie Love is their frontcourt depth, not gonna work.


1. Wake
2. UNC
3. GT
4. Maryland

Please tell me you're not putting NCSU above Duke... Frontcourt depth - David McClure & Reggie Love. Just because they don't have McDonald's All-Americans coming off the bench as in years past doesn't mean they have 0 depth. Just as long as one or the other (Randolph or Williams) is on the floor with either McClure or Love, they'll be fine. As for an overall lack of depth - when has K ever used more than 8 players on a regular basis? The loss of Deng & Duhon was huge, but they did pick up two solid recruits in Nelson & McClure. As soon as Nelson recovers from this hand injury, he's going to turn a lot of heads... Duke will be fine, more than fine.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I don't agree, but if you want to be blinded by the Duke name, then by all means do so. 

Just recognize, that even Mighty UNC suffered a down year, as did UCLA, as did Indiana. 

Duke is not immune from these problems, especially when everyone is a wing player. Dockery is a collegiate bust. Duhon is twice the player Dockery was and if Duhon could ever find his shot again, he will be much much better than Sean.

Amazing that Sean is a coaching son, yet has horrible decision making and shooting ability. No true back-up PG either. Ewing (SG), Nelson (SG). Melchionni hasn't played much in two years, but he is going to be a big contributor. I'll believe it when I see it. 

If Shelden Williams is ever in foul trouble, which is probably going to be often, this team is toast.

Explain how Duke is better than NC State. Hodge is better than any player Duke has. He makes everyone around him better as well. Duke will struggle to be better than Virginia this year.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>#1BucksFan</b>!
> They still have Reddick, Ewing, and Williams, they only lost Duhon, and their biggest loss was Livingston going to the draft out of high school. They made the final 4 last year, and as long as coach K is there, they should be top 10. Please give me a reason that they are so low.


A simple look at their roster would explain why everyone is writing them off.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i want to be on record as saying duke will finish 1st or 2nd in the acc.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> 
> 
> i'll take that bet. i do think the acc is deep but people seem to forget this is an elite program with probably the best college coach ever.


He is the best recruiter ever which makes him one of the greatest coaches. But he has never lifted a team with only above average talent to great heights.

When he has won it was because he ALWAYS had the most talent not because of some magical coaching skills.

Tell me one Coach K team that played better then their talent level. One.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> He is the best recruiter ever which makes him one of the greatest coaches. But he has never lifted a team with only above average talent to great heights.
> ...


just one, how about the mark alaire, johnny dawkins team or the danny ferry team that went to the finals against louisville. i wouldnt call either of those teams loaded with nba type talent. just last year they are one play away from winning it all with a team that most of you guys on this board say arent even one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the conferance.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Last year's team had Duhon and Deng - mighty big losses. You can't compare them to this year's team especially given the depth issues. With Deng they actually had three players who could play the 4 or 5. 


As for the team from the 80's - maybe your right - I don't know enough about the 80's to make an accurate assessment. 

I am familiar with the three straight years in the mid 90's where they could not get higher then a six seed - yet they had good talent.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Hmmm... the Alare, Tommy Amaker, Johnny Dawkins, Phil Henderson, Danny Ferry teams were ranked in the top 5, not to mention both Ferry and Dawkins were first round NBA picks. 

I don't know how that team wasn't talented.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> No true back-up PG either. Ewing (SG), Nelson (SG).


They had no PG several years ago and Jason Williams, a SG, stepped in a filled the hole quite nicely. Ya, he was unique, but how do you know Nelson isn't capable? Sure Williams could break his foot and be out for the season, but what if Hodge gets hurt? What's gonna happen to State? Or what if Paul goes down? What happens to Wake? Or... you get my point. Let's wait at least a game before writing them off completely.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Nelson has a thumb injury on his shooting hand. It's going to affect him all season and you know players are going to take cheap shots on the injured thumb, because when you hurt a thumb, you need to rest it. The Blue Devils can't afford to have Nelson feeling apprehensive about his thumb.

It's a bigger injury than most people believe. I was never the same shooter after my thumb injury in HS. I still could shoot, but one jam and it would be hurting forever. That is probably going to happen to him.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Didn't seem to hurt Alan Beard last season after she suffered the same injury. I'll wait and let him play at least a game before I write him off.


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## Hoopla (Jun 1, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>#1BucksFan</b>!
> They still have Reddick, Ewing, and Williams, they only lost Duhon, and their biggest loss was Livingston going to the draft out of high school. They made the final 4 last year, and as long as coach K is there, they should be top 10. Please give me a reason that they are so low.


Their biggest loss was Deng, not Livingston.

And yes, they might be top 10 quality, but certainly not top 5. The difference between their starting five and their bench is astounding, so they will need a virtually foul-free and injury-free season to have legitimate Final Four hopes.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Why are people writing off Duke*



> Originally posted by <b>Hoopla</b>!
> 
> 
> Their biggest loss was Deng, not Livingston.
> ...


The entire season and tournament. In a extremely strong year for ACC hopes, this is a recipe for disaster.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Hmmm... the Alare, Tommy Amaker, Johnny Dawkins, Phil Henderson, Danny Ferry teams were ranked in the top 5, not to mention both Ferry and Dawkins were first round NBA picks.
> 
> I don't know how that team wasn't talented.


in hindsight those teams werent loaded with nba type talent. the whole coach k thing isnt even a point for argument, the guy is a hall of famer.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> 
> 
> in hindsight those teams werent loaded with nba type talent. * the whole coach k thing isnt even a point for argument *, the guy is a hall of famer.


Why not? Because you say so?

Sorry Coach K is not a good game day coach - I will not back down on this. He has prepared NBA type talent for the NBA - but he has been unable to actually build players who were not seen as great before there college career.

He is a great program builder / recruiter which makes him a HOF coach overall. However, to deny he has major deficiencies is not even a point for argument.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

> Sorry Coach K is not a good game day coach


ya, but he yells really well. seems to work. :grinning:


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## Stevie B (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> They are not going to finish in the top 5 in the ACC. No frontcourt depth. None. Reggie Love is their frontcourt depth, not gonna work.


I think this one needs to be UPed.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

What? What? What now!!!

I didn't post here, but I pick Duke to win the title every year....Go Duke!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Stevie B</b>!
> 
> 
> I think this one needs to be UPed.


Season isn't over yet.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Season isn't over yet.


Yeah, but let's be honest. It's going to take ALOT for them to not finish in the top 5 in the ACC. People were wrong writing off Duke, including me. Just gotta face the facts. Unexpected guys have stepped up (Melchionni, Nelson), while both Reddick and Ewing have made huge strides in their game.


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## wightnoiser (Oct 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> Sorry Coach K is not a good game day coach - I will not back down on this. He has prepared NBA type talent for the NBA - but he has been unable to actually build players who were not seen as great before there college career.


I think he's a great game day coach. Works the refs better than anyone in the ACC. Uses his timeouts well, and always runs good plays coming out of them. (Last night he predicted what UNC was going to do in that last play and had his players ready to defend it. Grant Hill to Laettner at the free throw line.)

On top of that he's probably one of the greatest motivators of all time.

NOTE: I can't stand Ratface but I do respect his results.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> 
> Yeah, but let's be honest. It's going to take ALOT for them to not finish in the top 5 in the ACC. People were wrong writing off Duke, including me. Just gotta face the facts. Unexpected guys have stepped up (Melchionni, Nelson), while both Reddick and Ewing have made huge strides in their game.


Don't forget Shelden. I think he's made the greatest improvement of the big 3.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Duke is always a contender just because of Coach K......I dont think they will win it all this year.....elite 8 for sure..... final 4 possibly......


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I had this one written down on a sticky note on my desk to bump later on in the season...:yes: 

After hearing the stories from people that have attended Duke practices and watching clips from Duke practices there isnt any wonder why Duke is always good even when they are supposed to be having a down year. He is a great motivating coach and makes each player buy into a system that has worked for nearly two decades. Coach K is a great recruiter like some stated but you know what the biggest factor for recruiting is...winning. Coach K couldnt bring in the top talent he has for years unless he won the big time games that he has. People want to go to Duke because he teaches the game and makes solid pro's and because you win and get tons of tv time doing so.

So this year he doesnt have a Jay Williams or a Luol Deng or a Grant Hill, yes, but he has a TEAM. With guys that have a tradition of winning and NCAA Tournament experience and that counts for a lot.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jsimo12</b>!
> 
> So this year he doesnt have a Jay Williams or a Luol Deng or a Grant Hill, yes, but he has a TEAM. With guys that have a tradition of winning and NCAA Tournament experience and that counts for a lot.


A TEAM that represents one of the most disappointing recruiting in the past 20 years.

Dockery
Reddick
Randolph
Williams
Thompson

was perhaps the best recruiting class since the Fab Five.

The expecation was that this team would be dominant by their junior years, and they merely a good team. (although with chances at the title)


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> A TEAM that represents one of the most disappointing recruiting in the past 20 years.
> ...


Redick has lived up to his expectations and Williams has exceded them. The rest yes your correct they arent the next Fab Five but they still are right there every year.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> A TEAM that represents one of the most disappointing recruiting in the past 20 years.
> ...


Its not that disappointing. 

Redick and Williams are both all-american candidates as juniors.

Randolph has been a disappointment, but some of that can be attributed to injuries.

Thompson's ratings got a huge boost after he announced he was going to Duke. People close to the Chicago basketball scene had big questions about how good he really was. He was really overhyped by the national media. He was basically rated high because he was going to Duke and because he was huge. There were huge intensity and drive questions with Thompson.

Dockery has been a disappointment. He is just way too tentative. He is super quick and has great handles, but he always seems reluctant to even dribble the ball up the court.

You forgot Melchionni, and I think he has adequately lived up to his potential.



I would argue, though, that the Williams, Boozer, and Dunleavy class was a better recruiting class. Also, the Brand, Battier, Avery, and Sanders class. Sanders was a bust, but all the other players did pretty well for themselves at Duke.


As far as dominant by their junior year, if Deng and Livingston were playing at Duke this year this team would be dominant.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

One thing about big recruiting classes: If you have 4 or 5 really good, quality recruits coming in at one time, at least one, maybe 2 are probably not going to live up to expectations. It doesn't mean they won't be great players, but it's very rare that you have 5 great players on a team. Normally, 2 or 3 might live up to expectations, but, b/c they do, the others are confined to being role players who do other things. Especially when you consider that you have to add that great recruting class to the players who you ALREADY have on the team. And if you are talkin about a team like Duke, they always have good players already on the team. I mean, there are only so many shots, rebounds, assists, etc. to go around.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jalen5</b>!
> It doesn't mean they won't be great players, but it's very rare that you have 5 great players on a team.



Sorry, about this typo. What I meant was this:

It doesn't mean they won't be ok players, but it's very rare that you have 5 GREAT players on a team who live up to all the expectations people have for them.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Demarcus Nelson>>>>> Dockery, I remember people on this board saying Dockery was going to be great player:no:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Now had UNC did what they were supposed to do, my predictions wouldn't be so bad. 

Duke would be 7-4 and only would be a game up on GT, Maryland and Miami. Damn Carolina. 

Still isn't too late for the Dukies to collaspe and make me look smart though.


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