# Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired [merged]



## onetwo88

*InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

"InsideHoops.com reports that the Toronto Raptors will make what they call a "major" announcement today at 2 p.m. ET." 

http://www.insidehoops.com front page


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## Steez

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

I am thinking Sam Mitchell is fired.....


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## superdude211

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

Signing of Bosh's extention?, Sam Mitchell Fired?, Rose to NY?

the news confrence will be avalible on tsn.ca via the cybercast

http://www.tsn.ca/


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## butr

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

True. Its on the Raps homepage. I don't think it is a player transaction.

Coach? GM? Business move?

WTF Knows?


Chuck will be on the fan at 1pm

www.fan590.com to listen live.


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## Flush

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*



> The Toronto Raptors have scheduled a 2 p.m. press conference where CEO Richard Peddie will make a major announcemnet.


Peddie would not announce player movement. 

I'd be suprised if he even did a coaching change.


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## shookem

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

I think it's Sam.

I heard about this in the general NBA forum and a lot of people there are convinced the team is relocating. lol


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## foul_balls

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

Can't be Babcock, can it? Nothing GM-related has been bad recently. Pape Sow has looked pretty good in his return and everyone is still high on CV and Joey.

Must be Sam. After Kobe drops 81, and Mike James calls out his coach, plus the bad performance last night, they are probably looking to get a veteran coach in to steer this young ship straight. 
Hello Keady?


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## Steez

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

I just heard that its Bosh being traded to the Laker for Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum





Just Kidding


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## butr

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*



shookem said:


> I heard about this in the general NBA forum and a lot of people there are convinced the team is relocating. lol



Etardsre.


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## TRON

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

Fan saying it's Babcock!!!!!!


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## nwt

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

Alvin retires?


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## nwt

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

Saying it's Babcock that's fired


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## superdude211

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

heard it on the fan too rob babock is gone


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## TRON

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

If it's Babcock, why now.....and more importantly who will replace him??????????


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## Turkish Delight

*Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

Just heard the report on the Fan, announcement to come.


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## butr

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*



TRON said:


> Fan saying it's Babcock!!!!!!


Just heard it.


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## Turkish Delight

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

I'm guessing Wayne Embry will take over.


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## superdude211

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

anyone hear who they may replace him with


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## nwt

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

The Score is showing this at 2PM make sure you watch it


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## ballocks

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

wonder what this is all about. i guess someone's got to be leaving, because ticket price changes and other issues don't get this sort of treatment.

so:

sam
or
babcock
or
trade

given the way we've played lately, this wouldn't be the time to make a trade, but that's just my opinion.

we'll find out soon enough. but what a week.

peace


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## adhir1

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

WOW....this franchise is stupider then i thought it was....ridiculous...how can u fire a guy epecially one is such a position....the MLSE is really reallly stupid man...we really should fire Peddy instead of anyone else...ridiculous....**** hell...this franchise pisses me off...bloody hell...


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## nwt

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

It could be the announcement of the ASG
They're hyping this up, I don't this would necessarily happen with a firing, but it could be the firing

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060126.wraps26/BNStory/Sports//


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## Porn Player

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*



adhir1 said:


> WOW....this franchise is stupider then i thought it was....ridiculous...how can u fire a guy epecially one is such a position....the MLSE is really reallly stupid man...we really should fire Peddy instead of anyone else...ridiculous....**** hell...this franchise pisses me off...bloody hell...



couldnt have put it any ****ing better my ****ing self 1 step forward 2 steps back


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## kirk_2003

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

wow. im just dissapointed, i think babcock was turning the corner... that sucks because the guy was working pretty hard scouting all over the place... i bet you press conference he says he resigned of personal reasons....


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## nwt

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

Yep

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060126.wraps26/BNStory/Sports//

If I was Bosh this would make me want to leave


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## nwt

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

The Fan just confirmed this 
It's no longer speculation, Babcock has been axed


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## speedythief

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

What?!

Seriously, WTF?!


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## shookem

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

Do you guys think that because the Pacers got Peja for a not playing Artest, made the higher ups question Rob's trading abilities?


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## foul_balls

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

It makes sense, since the Owner is making the announcement. If it were Mitchell, Babcock, would probably be making the announcement.

But I don't get the move itself. Peddie talks about buying into rebuilding, and then he goes ahead and does this. WTF? This guy might rival Harold Ballard for the worst owner in Toronto history.

And if anything, I think Sam has done a worse job this year than Babcock.


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## Turkish Delight

Whatever, I really think Wayne Embry is going to take over now. Who knows, but some reports suggest that he had a big say in some of the moves the Raptors have made in the last year or so.

By the way, I was on the Fan a few minutes ago if anyone of you were listenning.
:biggrin:


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## nwt

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

This was dumb because not only was he starting to look like a good GM, but this is mid-season. It's not like we were doing bad after November


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## speedythief

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

I'm dying to hear the reasoning behind this, even more so than who the interm replacement will be.


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## nwt

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

How does Sam survive and Rob doesn't??


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## nwt

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

Eric Smith is saying Jack Armstrong would be a good replacement GM lol


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## shookem

They want to have someone in place before the trade deadline. Someone they feel will make the trades that will make the team better. Still seems strange though, and not good for business. I hope Rob started this rumour and is going to announce a trade, that would be wicked.


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## ballocks

wow, i thought mlse was going to make these decisions at the end of the year. and really, if the rumour is true, i'm concerned. like, i couldn't have had a more stressful week as a fan.  this here is record-setting.

the plan babcock had initiated was ambitious. cutting it short now is, imo, one of the most dangerous things to do. i think the most likely (the only?) way it was going to succeed was by following it through to the end. now we're presumably going to get a new head involved, who'll likely want to make quick changes like every new gm, which could conceivably sabotage the entire base we built. put differently, the last 18 months will have been a waste.

i don't know. i guess i'll wait for the official announcement, but man... and before the trade deadline? our team is now suffering from the megamarket "quick fix" syndrome.

peace


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## crimedog

i agree it's weird timing, but i imagine embry will replace him and i think that's a good thing. 

though he certainly pulled the wool over the rocket's eyes, i don't think babcock has the reputation around the league that embry has. 

at least he called up pape before getting axed.


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## JuniorNoboa

My concern is the timing of the firing?

I could imagine someone from MLE big**** office was telling Babcock to make some dumb shortsighted move as they were nearing the playoffs, and Babcock said no, or that it did not make sense.

I do not like what is going on...


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## Turkish Delight

MLSE probably took all the anger they have with the Leafs out on Babcock.


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## nwt

10 mins


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## ATLien

I don't like this move at all for Toronto. In the off-season I was a Babcock detractor, but I thought he redeemed himself with Charlie & Jose playing really well. And the Mike James trade being huge success. Seems like a short sided move to me. And I dislike that family with a passion.


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## CrookedJ

Turkish Delight said:


> Whatever, I really think Wayne Embry is going to take over now. Who knows, but some reports suggest that he had a big say in some of the moves the Raptors have made in the last year or so.
> 
> By the way, I was on the Fan a few minutes ago if anyone of you were listenning.
> :biggrin:



What did you say?? 


Press conference at 2pm, some one watch Raps TV and fill us in!!

What weird timing, with Pape coming up and starting last night. I agree with the sentiment of the Artest deal showing that even a lunatic has trade value if he can ball. If thats the case though, and Embry has been in on all these moves doens't he have to go to?


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## trick

This is getting ridiculous. Patience is already wearing thin, attendance continues to plummet, reputation around the league already has the Raptors as the laughing stock, and now they do this? Better have a good explanation / backup plan.


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## aizn

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*

very interesting lol. im listenin 2 the fan 590 now


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## CrookedJ

ballocks said:


> wow, i thought mlse was going to make these decisions at the end of the year. and really, if the rumour is true, i'm concerned. like, i couldn't have had a more stressful week as a fan.  this here is record-setting.
> 
> the plan babcock had initiated was ambitious. cutting it short now is, imo, one of the most dangerous things to do. i think the most likely (the only?) way it was going to succeed was by following it through to the end. now we're presumably going to get a new head involved, who'll likely want to make quick changes like every new gm, which could conceivably sabotage the entire base we built. put differently, *the last 18 months will have been a waste.*
> 
> i don't know. i guess i'll wait for the official announcement, but man... and before the trade deadline? our team is now suffering from the megamarket "quick fix" syndrome.
> 
> peace



It could be a partial waste but Bosh's development certainly hasn't been.


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## foul_balls

TheATLien said:


> I don't like this move at all for Toronto. In the off-season I was a Babcock detractor, but I thought he redeemed himself with Charlie & Jose playing really well. And the Mike James trade being huge success. Seems like a short sided move to me. And I dislike that family with a passion.


Totally agree, TheATLien. THis franchise has had how many GM's and coaches in its short existence? We need some stability and some presence and I thought Babcock turned the corner and the hiring of Keady gives some needed experience for Mitchell. 

Oh well, so much for the stability of the franchise. Hope this doesn't upset Bosh too much.


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## nwt

Turkish Delight said:


> Whatever, I really think Wayne Embry is going to take over now. Who knows, but some reports suggest that he had a big say in some of the moves the Raptors have made in the last year or so.
> 
> By the way, I was on the Fan a few minutes ago if anyone of you were listenning.


What did you say? I heard every caller lol


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## Vinsane

damn wasn't it just last year he was hired so much instability


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## Steez

Here we go....


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## butr

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*



nwt said:


> How does Sam survive and Rob doesn't??



Because Sam has his nose up Larry Tanenbaum's *******.


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## nwt

The Score is showing it nowwww

..as soon as someone steps to the podium dammit lol


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## aizn

oh shoot, babcock is actually fired.


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## butr

Turkish Delight said:


> Whatever, I really think Wayne Embry is going to take over now. Who knows, but some reports suggest that he had a big say in some of the moves the Raptors have made in the last year or so.
> 
> By the way, I was on the Fan a few minutes ago if anyone of you were listenning.
> :biggrin:



So was I. Second guy through. Venting.


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## Steez

na-na-na-na na-na-na-na
hey, hey, hey... GOODBYE!!!

Wayne!!!


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## 2aid

just heard from peddie on the score: rob babcock has been releived...


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## martymar

it's about time he got fired, he ruined the ****en team


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## martymar

*Re: Report: Rob Babcock Is Fired*



nwt said:


> How does Sam survive and Rob doesn't??


it's better to keep the coach until end of season, rather than change system in the middle of the season


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## trick

Embry - possible staff changes before the season is over


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## CrookedJ

Embry replacing? What else are they saying? Stupid computer with no sound card at work.


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## martymar

CrookedJ said:


> Embry replacing? What else are they saying? Stupid computer with no sound card at work.


he is only working as the interim GM, until they find a suitable replacement


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## trick

Peddie - Rob has helped us position ourselves better, cap-room wise

:raised_ey


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## trick

Peddie - Wayne and I will work closely together


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## TRON

With a new GM, Sam's days might be limited as well even if he is close with a certain minority owner

Good to hear that they will not rush to choose a new GM because they got Wayne Embry, hopefully they will have one in place sooner than later as the trade deadline and draft will be approaching quickly.


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## aizn

who would b good to replace babcock? im listenin 2 the fan right now


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## trick

Peddie - We will not hire a rookie GM. Looking with someone with vast experience.


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## 2aid

kiki anyone?


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## TRON

^ No rookie GM that is the best news I've heard all day, and Kiki would be fine with me!!!

off topic: For some reason I had this Biggie line goning through my head all morning and I didn't know why, but I guess it was a bit of a preminition....

"Your riegn on the top was short like Leprechaun...." :biggrin:


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## martymar

2aid said:


> kiki anyone?


Kiki Vandeweghe will not leave Denver


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## MonkeyBallZJr

whoa just got back and turned on the tv and saw the press conference on Sportsnets...whoa pretty surprising to me, I'd thought that MLSE were pretty much committed to Babcock's 3 year plan...guess not.


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## wind161

Peddie on Babcock: "mistake was that we should have gotten someone that was proven."

maybe this implies something about the coach too....


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## aizn

i hope mitchell is here to stay, because another coach for the guys would juss b devastating.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan

This organization hires two kinds of guys: guys who are unknown and cheap and guys who are way, way over the hill. If they are saying they want an experienced guy now, they'll go for the GM-equivalent of Lenny Wilkens.


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## aizn

wayne embry traded abdul jabbar... so does that mean hes gonna trade bosh by the deadline? ahh. lol.


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## foul_balls

Peddie is an idiot - Chose Babcock for his experience and thought he was right fit to lead team going forward. Now thinks he is not the right leader going forward.....

He needs to go with Babcock so we can finally build some stablity.


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## butr

Dick said that they may go through the draft with Wayne Embry.

Great. So our new GM is going to be saddled with Larry's bum buddy and maybe two picks that were not his that might've been.

Nah, Sam won't necessarily stay. But they have to get a guy who is ****ing ready for the draft this time.


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## shookem

Peddie "We picked rob because of his experience and we fired rob because of his experience" lol


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## aizn

chuck is on the fan right now.. juss wishing babcock good luck


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## GuelphRaptorsFan

Actually, the trend nowadays seems to be that the person running the search ends up finding themselves (Ken Dryden, Harriet Miers, Dick Cheney), so maybe Embry will also conduct an exhaustive search and determine that the best person for the job is Wayne Embry.


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## butr

Yeah. MLSE has realised that it is not the best to go on the cheap. Get the best.


Asside. Embry said that he will continue on the same plan that Rob and they had began. So expect the same "future" philosophy to stand.


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## butr

GuelphRaptorsFan said:


> Actually, the trend nowadays seems to be that the person running the search ends up finding themselves (Ken Dryden, Harriet Miers, Dick Cheney), so maybe Embry will also conduct an exhaustive search and determine that the best person for the job is Wayne Embry.



Wayne addressed this specifically. "And I'm going to say this in big bold letters. I am the Interim General Manager."

Depending on the person involved, he may also get the Raptors presidency.


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## Turkish Delight

CrookedJ said:


> What did you say??
> 
> 
> Press conference at 2pm, some one watch Raps TV and fill us in!!
> 
> What weird timing, with Pape coming up and starting last night. I agree with the sentiment of the Artest deal showing that even a lunatic has trade value if he can ball. If thats the case though, and Embry has been in on all these moves doens't he have to go to?


I basically just said that I thought Wayne Embry would be taking over, at least in an interim basis.
I think I'm psychic.


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## Turkish Delight

blowuptheraptors said:


> So was I. Second guy through. Venting.


Oh yeah, I think I was third. What did you say again?


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## ballocks

doesn't sound too bad, embry's a pretty honest man. he mentioned he was still committed to "the plan" and it couldn't have been easy to say that today in front of hordes of reporters. i'm sure he has his moves but at least he's had his time in the sun already- he won't be calling everyone in the league looking to make a trade for the sake of making a trade.

still, if there's any pressure from the board to "win today" or turn the team over completely, i'll be concerned. otherwise the impatient fanbase (and media base) will have won the battle- and we'll likely be looking at another era of struggle. the "babcock sucks!" "babcock sucks!" "this team sucks because of babcock!" children cannot continue to run the show in toronto. babcock's moves were not done for today, we made "today" sacrifices to enjoy "tomorrow" benefits, and those who don't see that (or choose to not see it) should stick their faces in books and _learn_. patience is a virtue. here, patience is _the_ virtue.

i hope it's true that management thinks we only needed a leadership change, not a change of plan. i support the plan; the transactions we make within the plan can be argued, but the plan itself is logical.

peace


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## CrookedJ

blowuptheraptors said:


> Yeah. MLSE has realised that it is not the best to go on the cheap. Get the best.
> 
> 
> Asside. Embry said that he will continue on the same plan that Rob and they had began. So expect the same "future" philosophy to stand.


Both are good points. I guess Embry must not have been making the decisions behind closed doors, or he would be gone as well.


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## butr

Turkish Delight said:


> Oh yeah, I think I was third. What did you say again?



I put it on MLSE for not realising VC needed to be traded right away since it affected Rob's first draft and FA signing.

Once again, Larry was too close to the situation (VC) to do what was right for the team. He is too buddy-buddy to see what's going on.


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## Turkish Delight

blowuptheraptors said:


> I put it on MLSE for not realising VC needed to be traded right away since it affected Rob's first draft and FA signing.
> 
> Once again, Larry was too close to the situation (VC) to do what was right for the team. He is too buddy-buddy to see what's going on.


Haha, were you the one calling them morons?


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## trick

shookem said:


> Peddie "We picked rob because of his experience and we fired rob because of his experience" lol


Ah, it's like:
"What's the sound of one-hand clapping?"


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## butr

Turkish Delight said:


> Haha, were you the one calling them morons?



Yes.


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## lucky777s

Pure insanity.

Peddie says they are sticking with the same plan but replacing the guy who developed the plan. And keeping the key advisor who helped Rob make every key decision along the way.

Hoffa draft - Embry in the draft room applauding and smiling.

VC trade - Embry doesn't tell the board they should get more. That would have sunk the trade.

Rafer - that is McCloskey's guy, but again Embry surely didnt' raise a stink over it.

In the end Peddie set this up last year when he made Embry report directly to him and not to Rob, who he was initially hired to support. I said that day it was a setup. Today I am proven correct.

1.5 years for a GM to prove himself? That's ridiculous.

Rob inherited a team with no cap space, no PG, no C, and a VC who was injury riddled and not playing anywhere near his ability for several years. What did they expect him to do in 1 season? 

Was this year supposed to be drastically better than it has been? How? Do they not like the current rookies? They say they are happy with their progress.

No stability for this sorry franchise.

Fire PEDDIE. Fire MCCLOSKEY.

Embry is a backstabber. He's Peddie's lap dog. Rob brought him to Toronto and he should have left with Rob. Do people think that other GMs will just offer us quality deals for Rose and Ewill now? Just because we have a nice old man in place now?

MLSE is a joke. This is all boardroom politics.

Not that I completely trusted Rob with our picks and caproom, but if you hire a guy you let him do the job.


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## butr

lucky777s said:


> Pure insanity.
> 
> Peddie says they are sticking with the same plan but replacing the guy who developed the plan. And keeping the key advisor who helped Rob make every key decision along the way.
> 
> Hoffa draft - Embry in the draft room applauding and smiling.
> 
> VC trade - Embry doesn't tell the board they should get more. That would have sunk the trade.
> 
> Rafer - that is McCloskey's guy, but again Embry surely didnt' raise a stink over it.
> 
> In the end Peddie set this up last year when he made Embry report directly to him and not to Rob, who he was initially hired to support. I said that day it was a setup. Today I am proven correct.
> 
> 1.5 years for a GM to prove himself? That's ridiculous.
> 
> Rob inherited a team with no cap space, no PG, no C, and a VC who was injury riddled and not playing anywhere near his ability for several years. What did they expect him to do in 1 season?
> 
> Was this year supposed to be drastically better than it has been? How? Do they not like the current rookies? They say they are happy with their progress.
> 
> No stability for this sorry franchise.
> 
> Fire PEDDIE. Fire MCCLOSKEY.
> 
> Embry is a backstabber. He's Peddie's lap dog. Rob brought him to Toronto and he should have left with Rob. Do people think that other GMs will just offer us quality deals for Rose and Ewill now? Just because we have a nice old man in place now?
> 
> MLSE is a joke. This is all boardroom politics.
> 
> Not that I completely trusted Rob with our picks and caproom, but if you hire a guy you let him do the job.



Repped!!!


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## ansoncarter

Embry came across as more of a figurehead than a shot-caller

Peddie and the board are the ones shaping the future of this team


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## foul_balls

From the Toronto Star:

“A general manager is evaluated in large part by the results of his decisions,” Richard Peddie, president and CEO of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, told a news conference. “Unfortunately those results have not met our expectations.”

So how come Peddie doesn't get the axe for his original decision to hire Rob?


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## GuelphRaptorsFan

> So how come Peddie doesn't get the axe for his original decision to hire Rob?

Because Peddie was evaluating Rob on his job, which was to make basketball decisions. Peddie bosses evaluate him on his job, which is to make money. Since MLSE will always make money, Peddie's job is basically for life, regardless of his competency level.


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## martymar

GuelphRaptorsFan said:


> > So how come Peddie doesn't get the axe for his original decision to hire Rob?
> 
> Because Peddie was evaluating Rob on his job, which was to make basketball decisions. Peddie bosses evaluate him on his job, which is to make money. Since MLSE will always make money, Peddie's job is basically for life, regardless of his competency level.


If Leafs doesn't make the playoffs he is gone cuz he is also hired Ferguson....Peddie is hands down worst CEO


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## speedythief

This is a complete ****ing disaster, and I normally don't go to extremes.

MLSE is ****ed in the head.


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## ansoncarter

Peddie "we will not be hiring a new GM until the season is completed"

right before a huge draft again lol


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## trick

ansoncarter said:


> Peddie "we will not be hiring a new GM until the season is completed"
> 
> right before a huge draft again lol


It's funny and sad at the same time. I wonder if Peddie knows the concept of the offseason.


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## [email protected]

this is a the worst day in Toronto Raptors sports. I officially hate the MLSE even more than i did before, and now, I wanna protest Peddie and his ****-head moves. this is the hugest step backwards


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## speedythief

A new low. Horray.


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## foul_balls

GuelphRaptorsFan said:


> > So how come Peddie doesn't get the axe for his original decision to hire Rob?
> 
> Because Peddie was evaluating Rob on his job, which was to make basketball decisions. Peddie bosses evaluate him on his job, which is to make money. Since MLSE will always make money, Peddie's job is basically for life, regardless of his competency level.


God, I hope we aren't stuck with him in control of all the decisions for long. Then we will be stuck in a "lost" era for the leafs again ('80s) and raps. Hello Harold Ballard!


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## wind161

lucky777s said:


> Pure insanity.
> 
> Peddie says they are sticking with the same plan but replacing the guy who developed the plan. And keeping the key advisor who helped Rob make every key decision along the way.
> 
> Hoffa draft - Embry in the draft room applauding and smiling.
> 
> VC trade - Embry doesn't tell the board they should get more. That would have sunk the trade.
> 
> Rafer - that is McCloskey's guy, but again Embry surely didnt' raise a stink over it.
> 
> In the end Peddie set this up last year when he made Embry report directly to him and not to Rob, who he was initially hired to support. I said that day it was a setup. Today I am proven correct.
> 
> 1.5 years for a GM to prove himself? That's ridiculous.
> 
> Rob inherited a team with no cap space, no PG, no C, and a VC who was injury riddled and not playing anywhere near his ability for several years. What did they expect him to do in 1 season?
> 
> Was this year supposed to be drastically better than it has been? How? Do they not like the current rookies? They say they are happy with their progress.
> 
> No stability for this sorry franchise.
> 
> Fire PEDDIE. Fire MCCLOSKEY.
> 
> Embry is a backstabber. He's Peddie's lap dog. Rob brought him to Toronto and he should have left with Rob. Do people think that other GMs will just offer us quality deals for Rose and Ewill now? Just because we have a nice old man in place now?
> 
> MLSE is a joke. This is all boardroom politics.
> 
> Not that I completely trusted Rob with our picks and caproom, but if you hire a guy you let him do the job.


can't agree with you more.


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## MjM2xtreMe

here's the link from tsn: http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=152405

Peddie says he should have hired someone with more experience and he will look for more of a proven GM. He said it was best to fire him now rather than later because the new GM would have time to scout for this years draft picks. He also admitted that the new GM might want a new coach.....Sam Mitchell next to be shown the door?


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## speedythief

So out of one side of his mouth Peddie says the new GM won't be hired until the season ends, and out the other he says he wants to give the guy proper time to scout.

Great.


----------



## wind161

> He said it was best to fire him now rather than later because the new GM would have time to scout for this years draft picks.





> Peddie "we will not be hiring a new GM until the season is completed"


I didn't verify the accuracy of the above quotes taken from this boards.. 

but are you kidding me? completely contradictary.


----------



## trick

wind161 said:


> I didn't verify the accuracy of the above quotes taken from this boards..
> 
> but are you kidding me? completely contradictary.


You want a good laugh? You should've heard Peddie saying how the Basketball IQ in the organization has risen up. Then he comes out with a whole ----load of dumb comments and miscued plannings.


----------



## ansoncarter

MjM2xtreMe said:


> here's the link from tsn: http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=152405
> 
> Peddie says he should have hired someone with more experience and he will look for more of a proven GM. *He said it was best to fire him now rather than later because the new GM would have time to scout for this years draft picks*. He also admitted that the new GM might want a new coach.....Sam Mitchell next to be shown the door?


thats weird. Seems to be talking out of both corners of his mouth. I listened to him on RapsTV and he explained to Norma that the pool of potential candidates would be strongest in the offseason (something like that)

I think (almost sure) he literally said "We will not be hiring a new gm until the offseason" and that Wayne would hold the fort till then

anyone else hear that???


----------



## tmlblue

ballocks said:


> doesn't sound too bad, embry's a pretty honest man. he mentioned he was still committed to "the plan" and it couldn't have been easy to say that today in front of hordes of reporters. i'm sure he has his moves but at least he's had his time in the sun already- he won't be calling everyone in the league looking to make a trade for the sake of making a trade.
> 
> still, if there's any pressure from the board to "win today" or turn the team over completely, i'll be concerned. otherwise the impatient fanbase (and media base) will have won the battle- and we'll likely be looking at another era of struggle. the "babcock sucks!" "babcock sucks!" "this team sucks because of babcock!" children cannot continue to run the show in toronto. babcock's moves were not done for today, we made "today" sacrifices to enjoy "tomorrow" benefits, and those who don't see that (or choose to not see it) should stick their faces in books and _learn_. patience is a virtue. here, patience is _the_ virtue.
> 
> i hope it's true that management thinks we only needed a leadership change, not a change of plan. i support the plan; the transactions we make within the plan can be argued, but the plan itself is logical.
> 
> peace


Well I think you have to look at it like this. The Leafs have been for a while sacrificing tommorow for today and now they are suffering the pains of this. And MLSE has always succumbed to the pressure from Leafs fans. I think it was only a matter of time before they bowed to public scrutiny since they have many times before. The plan Babcock has started should not be changed and if they do sacrifice future for today then they should only look at the Leafs to see what they will end up with.

EDIT: And one more thing. Is it me or does everytime Peddie says something I wanna punch him in the face. This fool keeps firing everybody to keep his job. Really those *******es at MLSE must be one hell of a stupid bunch since so many people have failed on Peddie's watch and they have yet to can his stupid *** yet. Stupid *****es.


----------



## ansoncarter

wind161 said:


> I didn't verify the accuracy of the above quotes taken from this boards..
> 
> but are you kidding me? completely contradictary.


I think he said both (not 100% sure, only 99.9)

he talks to different reporters individually. If one of them questioned hiring someone right before the draft, it wouldnt' be surprising if he changed his tune. WOuldnt' be the first time


----------



## aizn

^^ if thats the case, then i hope embry will stay and draft based on BPA rather than position required.


----------



## wind161

trick said:


> You want a good laugh? You should've heard Peddie saying how the Basketball IQ in the organization has risen up. Then he comes out with a whole ----load of dumb comments and miscued plannings.


 heh... i guess the rest of the organization had to make up for his lack of ball IQ....


----------



## speedythief

Well as a side note nobody other than Rob and Pete are going to stop scouting for us. Everyone else will be business as usual, or unusual as it seems is the case with our franchise.

And you know, nobody has their finger on the pulse of the modern NBA like an elderly HOFer. Look how great things were with Lenny.


----------



## CrookedJ

trick said:


> You want a good laugh? You should've heard Peddie saying how the Basketball IQ in the organization has risen up. Then he comes out with a whole sh*tload of dumb comments and miscued plannings.


Plus he as the Chair, or whatever-the-****, should not be creating a situation where the level of BBall IQ is rising! Its BBall Organization thats their freakin jobs to know basketball. How long would peddie have his job if he was "impoving the Hockey IQ" of the org. 
Would Microsoft be a good company if they had "been able to find some good computer people?"

Its a joke, a side project for MLSE.


----------



## MjM2xtreMe

on the tsn article: "In fairness to Rob, once we knew a change was necessary, we didn't think it was right to have him continue. *And from a team perspective, making this move today better positions us as we look toward the trade deadline and then the draft this spring*." 

I thought this quote meant that its better to fire him now so a possible new GM will be more prepared for the trade deadline as well as the draft. I guess i misunderstood this. My bad.


----------



## Crossword

*Re: InsideHoops says BIG RAPTORS NEWS coming*

WTF... IDIOTS... UGHHHHHHHHH

Are they trying to lose fans? Honestly? This team is going ****ing nowhere and I'm sick of this absolutely moronic management. Please oh please can we fire Peddie... this bull**** is getting ridiculous. We finally have a team on the right track yet we opt for band-aid fixes and years of mediocrity.

THIS is why the Raptors were seen as a joke before Rob came along, and it's also why the Raptors just lost any chance of becoming contenders in the not-too-distant future.


----------



## GuelphRaptorsFan

> still, if there's any pressure from the board to "win today" or turn the team over completely, i'll be concerned.


How could there be any pressure to win today when there's virtually no chance that they could? This team isn't rebuilding because it chose to, this team is rebuilding because it sucks and they got forced into it. Teams that have a choice are teams that make the playoffs, but not by a lot, the 5-7 seeds. Teams as bad as this *have* to rebuild.


----------



## madman

How do i get Richard Pettie's job, you dont have to claim responsability when both of the teams that you run are doing miserably and a nice 6 figure salery.


----------



## The Truth IV

The Carter trade sealed Babcock's fate. It was one of the dumbest transactions in the history of professional sport. Everyone knew Carter would re-emerge as a premier player (not Kobe, but one of the top 10-15 players in the league). 

Don't tell me about salary cap implications, don't tell me about the mid to late draft picks in horrible draft years, don't tell me about "changing the attitude of the team".

A nucleus of Bosh, Carter, Rose, CV3 and Mike James gets the Raps to the playoffs in the weak Eastern conference.


----------



## lucky777s

Sorry to ruin everyone's day but Peddie makes a 7 figure salary.

And VC would never have re-emerged as a great player in Toronto. JKidd and RJ kicking his butt and chewing him out are what motivated him. And the pressure to show that he wasn't the problem in Toronto. This year in NJ he was sucking until the all star voting came out and he was nowhere to be seen, plus trade talks started swirling around him in NJ. He has really slowed down again lately.

Nobody stood up to him here or was able to push him after Oak left.


----------



## trick

Fun Fact: Today is VC's birthday. Happy Birthday Vince, from MLSE to you.


----------



## madman

Honestly i was seriously thinking about getting season tickets next year but not only am i not going to do that but i am not going to waste any more of my money on this team and will only attend one more game this season because they were bought as a gift, and as long as Peddie is there i dont see myself going to alot of games for a while.


----------



## ansoncarter

SERIOUSLY! IT"S VINCE"S BIRTHDAY!!

thats just...uhm...not sure. But it's weird as hell


----------



## madman

I am watching the press conference (was at work when it was on) and he says how he wants someone experienced, but guess what no one wants to go somewhere where they could be fired after a year and a half


----------



## VTRapsfan

^ basically sums up MLSE

Worst move the franchise has made since signing everyone Vince wanted to huge contracts. Babcock was no Joe Dumars or RC Buford, but he had a decent rebuilding plan and drafted very well -5 out of 6 rookies we've had with Rob have showed signs of promise.

Araujo - Only one who never really showed much
Sow - Dominated NBDL and has played OK in limited minutes at NBA level (only a few games though)
Villanueva - In cold stretch right now, but has exceeded all expectations by huge margin
Graham - Still learning NBA game, potential to be good scorer and great defender
Calderon - Pure PG who I think is good enough to start when healthy
Slokar - Looked very good in summer leagues, should develop more in Europe

I didn't include Ukic because we've never really seen him play in North America. Still, Babcock's track record as GM is pretty good IMO, and I haven't even mentioned the Alston-James trade. If anyone went, I was hoping it would be Mitchell (nothing against the guy, he's a good motivator, but he's not an NBA head coach right now). Also Peddie should be fired, but I'm not holding my breath. However, I'm glad it's Embry replacing him and not some rookie GM that MLSE hired in a hurry.


----------



## charlz

TheATLien said:


> I don't like this move at all for Toronto. In the off-season I was a Babcock detractor, but I thought he redeemed himself with Charlie & Jose playing really well. And the Mike James trade being huge success. Seems like a short sided move to me. And I dislike that family with a passion.



yes I don't understand the timing. How is Toronto an attractive place to come for caoches and GM's when <b>Peddie</b> screws around with their careers to further his own end and cover his a$$.

They have said they are not hiring a new GM until the draft so the only reason they are firing him now is Sams whining and to make a splashy headline for attendence.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

madman said:


> How do i get Richard Pettie's job, you dont have to claim responsability when both of the teams that you run are doing miserably and a nice 6 figure salery.




I'm sure Peddie is scratching the surface of seven figures for his "services"


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I'm still so surprised and disguisting by this move. 

Our franchise is an absolute mess. A laughing stock. What horrible timing on this firing, too.

This definetly lowers the chances of us resigning Chris Bosh. 3 GM's in 3 years. I'm sure he loves that stability.


----------



## -James-

I know I don't post much any more but I just wanted to express that Peddie is an utter moron. I agree with charlz, we will never get any type of good upper management as long as he pulls this. How the hell do you fire a rebuilding GM after he has only been building for two years? I admit that Babs dropped the ball a couple times but how are you gonna judge a GM, before his plan or half of his plan is put into motion. He only got two rookie classes to work with and they're gonna judge him on that? I know I've bashed him but I think he deserved at least one more offseason.

Can't say I didn't expect it though. All you'd really hear is how much Babs should be fired. Toronto sports media caused this more than results I think. It appears Peddie is really fond of the Star.


----------



## -James-

vigilante said:


> I'm still so surprised and disguisting by this move.
> 
> Our franchise is an absolute mess. A laughing stock. What horrible timing on this firing, too.
> 
> This definetly lowers the chances of us resigning Chris Bosh. 3 GM's in 3 years. I'm sure he loves that stability.


 Wow didn't even think about that. What about Bosh?


----------



## madman

-James- said:


> Wow didn't even think about that. What about Bosh?


 IMO Bosh is gone, look at that thread Charlz posted, well at least he'll do well in LA


----------



## -James-

madman said:


> IMO Bosh is gone, look at that thread Charlz posted, well at least he'll do well in LA


 This is so frustrating. I don't even know what to say.

We better hit the jackpot in the draft this year.


----------



## AirJordan™

Rob Babcock is fired?????????????????????? Can someone PLEASE tell me what is happening. I just got back from my basketball game which we won in a BLOWOUT 44-12, and then......all I hear is Babcock is fired. Can someone please inform me on what is happening today?


----------



## anniebananerz

-James- said:


> I know I don't post much any more but I just wanted to express that Peddie is an utter moron. I agree with charlz, we will never get any type of good upper management as long as he pulls this. How the hell do you fire a rebuilding GM after he has only been building for two years? I admit that Babs dropped the ball a couple times but how are you gonna judge a GM, before his plan or half of his plan is put into motion. He only got two rookie classes to work with and they're gonna judge him on that? I know I've bashed him but I think he deserved at least one more offseason.
> 
> Can't say I didn't expect it though. All you'd really hear is how much Babs should be fired. Toronto sports media caused this more than results I think. It appears Peddie is really fond of the Star.


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## trick

-James- said:


> I know I don't post much any more but I just wanted to express that Peddie is an utter moron. I agree with charlz, we will never get any type of good upper management as long as he pulls this. How the hell do you fire a rebuilding GM after he has only been building for two years? I admit that Babs dropped the ball a couple times but how are you gonna judge a GM, before his plan or half of his plan is put into motion. He only got two rookie classes to work with and they're gonna judge him on that? I know I've bashed him but I think he deserved at least one more offseason.
> 
> Can't say I didn't expect it though. All you'd really hear is how much Babs should be fired. Toronto sports media caused this more than results I think. It appears Peddie is really fond of the Star.


And it's funny when you hear Peddie's optimism for this franchise's future, having 2 first round picks, a nice nucleus of young players as well as cap flexibility that may come as close to this year or next, the hiring of Embry, all were Babcock's doing and yet he's still been relieved.


----------



## madman

trick said:


> And it's funny when you hear Peddie's optimism for this franchise for the future, having 2 first round picks, a nice nucleus of young players as well as cap flexibility thay may come as close to this year or next, the hiring of Embry, all were Babcock's doing and yet he's still been relieved.


 yup, they took a step backwards instead of forwards wow i am soo frustrated with this team


----------



## AirJordan™

Ok, now I know why VC wanted Peddie fired so much when he was in T-Dot.


----------



## Team Mao

I wake up to this. TO THIS!?!

Wrong guy, wrong time, wrong everything. What a f***ed up organization. I'm thinking of seriously starting to follow the Hornets as my number one team.

WOW. JUST WOW.


----------



## Rhubarb

This is ****in ridiculous. An absolute joke.

**** Richard Peddie, **** Jack McCloskey, **** MLSE, and **** this hot weather.

They want stability and they fire a guy after 1 and a half seasons in the middle of the season of all times, and put a 'pending' status under the coach.

They want success and they fire a guy who was realistic about the whole situation, and built that all up for them longterm.

Now I'm not only no longer confident about the organization, but I'm seriously starting to doubt the whole Bosh situation and our draft situation - two of the most important things to this franchise if MLSE truly wants this team to become a winner.

Eat poo Peddie, eat poo.


----------



## djmyte

A little "self preservation" by Peddie. Firing Rob now is surprising but he really wasnt much of a GM. Now all that needs to happen is for Peddie to be shown the door and then things will really be on the upswing.


----------



## Turkish Delight

It doesn't really matter when they get a GM, Wayne Embry is more than capable to take us through the draft. I hope they don't make the same mistake as last time by signing a GM only a couple of weeks before the draft. If they are going to get a GM before the draft, it'll have to be at the latest a couple of weeks after the season is over. If not, they should just wait until after they have made their picks.


----------



## Turkish Delight

By the way, I only was able to listen to about the first 1 1/2 of the Chuck Swirsky Show today. Where was he? Too distraught about Babcock being fired?


----------



## Unknownone

ballocks said:


> still, if there's any pressure from the board to "win today" or turn the team over completely, i'll be concerned. otherwise the impatient fanbase (and media base) will have won the battle- and we'll likely be looking at another era of struggle. the "babcock sucks!" "babcock sucks!" "this team sucks because of babcock!" children cannot continue to run the show in toronto. babcock's moves were not done for today, we made "today" sacrifices to enjoy "tomorrow" benefits, and those who don't see that (or choose to not see it) should stick their faces in books and _learn_. patience is a virtue. here, patience is _the_ virtue.


I'm flabbergasted - in addition to quietly incensed and just plain PO'd... I'm about to retire my allegiance to this team, not necessarily b/c of the players, coaches, etc. (past and present), but b/c of MSLE, Tannenbaum, and Peddie...

As Ballocks wrote, it's all about patience - but b/c of the lack of general basketball acumen amongst the general population in the city and w/ MLSE and the Teachers Pension Fund, the Raptors are likely to be doomed to be treadmill team until someone else w/ deep pockets such as Cuban takes over... I've always been a college basketball fan 1st and foremost, but the Raptors slowly edged their way into my frame of attention over the course of the last 10 years; w/ the current keystone cops folly and antics that MLSE, Peddie et al engage in over the handling of the team, I'm fait accompli - JN, BUTR: I'm game to speak on the college game anytime, but it's high time for me personally to shed my enthusiasm for the Raptors... You can win for the short-term and keep people placated - just wait 'til next year thus becomes the broken record mantra: if MLSE practices this sort of duplicity and the public buys it wholesale, whose face wears rotten eggs?


----------



## Crossword

Honestly. MLSE is doing a great job of turning fans away from this team, it's pathetic. How the **** do you give up on a (at least) 3 year plan a year and a half in? I mean, are these buffoons TRYING to incite more Canada jokes? Are they TRYING to make the Raptors the laughingstock of the league? It's ridiculous.


----------



## Turkish Delight

The thing I don't get is that Glen Grunwald had so many years where he was making horrible draft decisions, giving players way too much money, but it seemed as if he was immune to all this. Then Babcock gets hired, and inherits this Raptor team in a horrible time with no cap space, no PG, no C, yet he gets fired after a year and a half.


----------



## Ballyhoo

I was a big critic of Babcock. I don't buy into the theory that he needed time to prove himself. You have to cut your losses once it becomes evident you made a mistake, not try to ride it out and hope things get better. You only dig yourself a deeper hole that way. He needed to go before he did more damage.

However you should only fire the GM mid-season if you have someone better lined up. To do otherwise is simply making things worse, especially with the trade deadline looming. This just reeks of mismanagement. It's widely thought that the Raptors are the worst run organization in the league and lame moves like this just reinforce that opinion.

One other thought, maybe Bosh quietly indicated he won't sign an extension, and they panicked. I mean if Babcock told MLSE his plan was to trade Carter and build around Bosh, and then Bosh says he wants out, you're looking at a disaster. Not trying to defend Peddie here, just tossing out a scenario.


----------



## Divine Spammer

To worst thing is when a stupid man believes he's smart. 
MLSE are a bunch of idiots. They fail to understand that stability and patience are necessary for building a good basketball team and B-ball culture. 
San-Antonio is the classic example.

Instability is what I fear the most, because when you're changing your mind all the time, you're gonna get hurt. Badly.

If a new GM comes in town and starts to do "quick fixes", it'll be safe to say that this organization is going to stay on the bottom for a long time.


----------



## ansoncarter

It's painfully obvious why there's no vision behind this team, and why the direction keeps changing at the drop of a hat

we've got multiple self-deluded board members all voicing their opinion, and the sycophants they've hired (peddie) will do whatever it takes to please them


----------



## shookem

The reaction is so negative, and it should be, but this is the ownership group the runs the Leafs and we know many many Cups they've won in the last 60 years.

This blows, but if it changes much on the court I'll be surprised. I do worry about signing CB4, hopefully he's an Embry guy, Sam might be able to work on him there.


----------



## madman

shookem said:


> The reaction is so negative, and it should be, but this is the ownership group the runs the Leafs and we know many many Cups they've won in the last 60 years.
> 
> This blows, but if it changes much on the court I'll be surprised. I do worry about signing CB4, hopefully he's an Embry guy, Sam might be able to work on him there.


 i am not even sure if he is on page with mitchell, the last couple of games i dont remember running a play for him


----------



## no_free_baskets

i guess im the only one that likes the move then...lol

if you dont think this is the right guy to lead you to the next level (which i happen to agree with), you get rid of him, plain and simple...i mean, what the use of keeping him around, if u dont?

better to start from scratch again, with new leadership, then labour on with someone you dont have confidence in...

for those of you who can stand peddie (count me in, as well), the great news in all of this is that apparently mlse is willing to offer the title of president of basketball operations as well as gm duties, if its needed to get their guy....meaning, this new gm, if offered pres. of bask. operations as well, would essentially be taking over peddie job on the basketball side as well, no?? maybe im wrong in this...im not 100% clear...


----------



## ansoncarter

shookem said:


> The reaction is so negative, and it should be, but this is the ownership group the runs the Leafs and we know many many Cups they've won in the last 60 years.
> 
> This blows, but if it changes much on the court I'll be surprised. I do worry about signing CB4, hopefully he an Embry guy, Sam might be able to work on him there.


little reason to be worried about Bosh (imho), resigning a max rookie is almost a formality. His future with us won't be decided until 2008ish


----------



## ansoncarter

no_free_baskets said:


> i guess im the only one that likes the move then...lol
> 
> if you dont think this is the right guy to lead you to the next level (which i happen to agree with), you get rid of him, plain and simple...i mean, what the use of keeping him around, if u dont?
> 
> better to start from scratch again, with new leadership, then labour on with someone you dont have confidence in...
> 
> for those of you who can stand peddie (count me in, as well), the great news in all of this is that apparently mlse is willing to offer the title of president of basketball operations as well as gm duties, if its needed to get their guy....meaning, this new gm, if offered pres. of bask. operations as well, would essentially be taking over peddie job on the basketball side as well, no?? maybe im wrong in this...im not 100% clear...


thats a good point (about the pres/gm combo offer) but whoever the candidate is will do his homework. He'll know he has a board full of intrusive non-bball people to deal with. And that Peddie will be in his ear for the entire tenure 

personally, I don't care that Babcock's gone. I'm disappointed the vision of finally rebuilding left with him


----------



## speedythief

I agree with the idea that you can switch horses in mid-stream if the horse you're on isn't going to make it across.

But they couldn't have done more damage to our reputation with the timing of this firing. I doubt anything he's done this season have lead to his firing, so why not let him go during the summer? Why now?


----------



## bigbabyjesus

All these questions..

Theres only one answer.. Because Peddie is a ****ing MORON!


----------



## TDrake

This move, at this time, is just too weird. I mean, if its some kind of damage control, spin doctoring, scape-goating PR move, its not gonna work. Even the people who hate Babcock aren't going to see this as a hot-button issue - everything Babcock's believed to have done wrong was in the distant past, so how does it make us feel better by firing him now?

There must be some other reason for making the move at this time - what it could be, I can only guess. The only significant date coming up on the calendar is the trade deadline - maybe Peddie (and perhaps some of the board members) wanted Babs to do something before the deadline that he didn't want to do - maybe trade a contract that he'd prefer to just let expire or something ...

I'm just guessing here, but there's gotta be some reason for the move besides Peddie's bowels not moving or such!

Anyway, I have to agree that, in the absence of a more substantial explanation than we've been given by MLSE, they look like a bunch of idiots - the true heirs and successors of Harold Ballard - may they rot in the putrescence of their filthy lucre ...


----------



## MjM2xtreMe

Someone should start that fire peddie petition website again :curse:


----------



## no_free_baskets

oh one thing i hated thou, was peddie insistence that he'll hire an experienced gm this time around....i wish he wouldnt limit his options this way...imo, you have to take the best guy available, regardless....

two guys that peak my interest, are john hammond and wayne cooper...technically, they havent been a gm in this league, but both have run shotgun and been the right hand man of two of the best gm's in the league, dumars, and petrie...is peddie saying that he wont look into these guys because they havent explicitly been gm's before? i sure hope not...

i much rather we take a chance on some new blood like the aforemention, then some retread like john gabriel, don nelson, garry st. jean, or whomever other retread gm that are floating about...

we'd almost surely have to given them presidency of basketball operation as well (as they both passed even being interviewed with the raps when grunwald was fired, as they didnt want to deal with the bureaucracy of the raps front office), but id be willing to take that chance then be stuck with the option of taking someone who has already failed in this league....


----------



## butr

The rebuilding plan continues anson, just with no Rob at the trigger.

The funny thing, is that Peddie put it out there that the presidency of the club will be available for the right candidate. 

So then obviously, if the new hire does not get the presidency, he is not all that great a hire.

Backed himself into a corner.

Whoever they hire, he had better have been taking the pulse of this draft class since the last draft.

Priority #1.


----------



## CrookedJ

I watched Primetime sports with McCown (sp?) tonight to hear the Peddie call in interview. Here a summary of what McCown ( hothead) Stephen Brunt ( I like him) said and then what Peddie responded with:

Brunt: Why now? He was terrible in his first year and then things were looking up

McCown: Everything Babcock did was terrible, I won't even give him credit for mike james, that was a fluke.

Brunt: But why now?

McCown: There must have been a move that he was gonna make that "the Board" was against, or a move MLSE wanted to make that he was against. Peddies on in 5 minutes I'll hold him to that . We gotta know why

Peddie: WE liked the direction he has us going in, this was a desicion I made in consultation with Embry. He wasn't right long term.

Brunt: BUT WHY NOW!!! 

Peddie: It was nothing specific.

McCown: Will your replacement be expected to stay on the current plan, if as you say MLSE likes the direction?

Peddie: OUr new GM will have full autonomy.

McCown: What if that entails blowing up the current team?

Peddie: We have a great Organization bla bla bla bla bla bla >>> ( here comes the dig at Dallas/ Phx etc) Other teams have a GM that is forced to report directly to the owner, whereas . . .(I can't recall how he sold the MLSE way as better

Brunt: I thought you were opposed to making organizational changes mid season?

Peddie: Only for coaches ( OK so bye bye Sam Mitchell in April)

McCown: So lets recap the sitaution, the new GM won't be on until after the season - wouldn't he want input over any possible deadline deals?

Peddie: I'm a ****ing moron that wears his *** for a hat, I'm lucky to make through the day without getting fired, what do you expect from me, _competence?_ 

McCown: Check, and the draft? Are you comforable hiring someone thats been fired before ( speaking of Experience)

Peddie: Everyone in this Biz has been fired before, well except me.

McCown: _You've_ never been fired? ( as if to suggest its only a matter of time)

**********************************************************
So a basic synopsis appears to be this:

Babs had to go now, before trade deadline and draft.

New GM will be hired after season, therefore unable to make trades that they want, or to properly control scouting operations for draft

New GM will have experience, and full automony. MLSE like direction of team, but doesn't care enough to commit to finding a new Gm that feels the same. IF new GM wows them with new scheme they'll probably go for it. Coaches can only be fired after the season ( rowsing vote of confidence)
Peddie sees a "few" moves that they will pursue now. I'm willing to bet they whole thing was so they can make so kind of deadline trade that babcock was against.

My bottom line is this . . . If Peddie felt so bad about Babs, he should have gone by the 1-15 start. You don't fire a GM in the middle of a season without a plan to replace him. The absolute last thing we want is another draft with a GM thats has been o nthe job for 2-3 weeks


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## Yao Mania

I suspect there's more to this story then what we've seen on the surface...


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## ansoncarter

blowuptheraptors said:


> The rebuilding plan continues anson, just with no Rob at the trigger.


hope so, but I doubt it. 

mlse never wanted to rebuild in the first place. It's a minor miracle they stuck it out this long imo


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## Turkish Delight

ansoncarter said:


> hope so, but I doubt it.
> 
> mlse never wanted to rebuild in the first place. It's a minor miracle they stuck it out this long imo


They have no other choice, what else could they do right now?


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## Turkish Delight

It's pretty pathetic to me that Rob Babcock has already been fired, but John Ferguson Jr's job seems to be stable.


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## MjM2xtreMe

ansoncarter said:


> hope so, but I doubt it.
> 
> mlse never wanted to rebuild in the first place. It's a minor miracle they stuck it out this long imo


Actually MLSE did want to rebuild, thats why they hired Babcock instead of Erving (VC preference). If they didnt want to rebuild they would have went with VC's choice and build the teams with veterans since VC wanted to win right then.


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## ansoncarter

Turkish Delight said:


> They have no other choice, what else could they do right now?


nothing 

but there'll be a ton of temptations in the summer


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## ansoncarter

MjM2xtreMe said:


> Actually MLSE did want to rebuild, thats why they hired Babcock instead of Erving (VC preference). If they didnt want to rebuild they would have went with VC's choice and build the teams with veterans since VC wanted to win right then.


why'd Rob draft araujo then? in his press conference today he said it was because he was the right guy to put beside Vince

his origional vision for the team, which he was hired on, was to build around Vince


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## martymar

Team Mao said:


> I wake up to this. TO THIS!?!
> 
> Wrong guy, wrong time, wrong everything. What a f***ed up organization. I'm thinking of seriously starting to follow the Hornets as my number one team.
> 
> WOW. JUST WOW.


Maybe you should just follow the hornets, really tired of hiring you *****ing about mitchell and your stupid fantasy trades

Well he was the one that hired mitchell you know the coach you are so incline to be fired.
wrong time not really cuz the Raptors brass are scared that he will **** up and maybe actually trade the first round pick to get the salary cap space this year


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## Unknownone

MjM2xtreMe said:


> Actually MLSE did want to rebuild, thats why they hired Babcock instead of Erving (VC preference). If they didnt want to rebuild they would have went with VC's choice and build the teams with veterans since VC wanted to win right then.


You realize that Erving had no front office/management experience, right? As in he had none then and no team since then has taken a chance on his skills of assessment as deemed by Vince... Getting Erving is like recruiting Isiah, not b/c of any demonstrated ability, but b/c he can talk a game and presents well: no substance, all surface - kinda like society @ large in general today...


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## Team Mao

martymar said:


> Maybe you should just follow the hornets, really tired of hiring you *****ing about mitchell and your stupid fantasy trades
> 
> Well he was the one that hired mitchell you know the coach you are so incline to be fired.
> wrong time not really cuz the Raptors brass are scared that he will **** up and maybe actually trade the first round pick to get the salary cap space this year


Wow, time to get back on the pills Marty. Sorry if I don't like Mitchell, but lots of people on here b**** about stuff, relax dude. You need to check that rage of yours.


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## martymar

Unknownone said:


> You realize that Erving had no front office/management experience, right? As in he had none then and no team since then has taken a chance on his skills of assessment as deemed by Vince... Getting Erving is like recruiting Isiah, not b/c of any demonstrated ability, but b/c he can talk a game and presents well: no substance, all surface - kinda like society @ large in general today...


Actually I believe Erving was Direct of player personnel or public relations for Orlando magics. Funny you would mention that players has no experience whatsoever what about Joe Dumars? Kevin Mcchale? John Paxson? Danny Perry? None of them had experience either......Isiah did a pretty good job starting the Raptors even though the raptors were handcuffed by NBA


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## foul_balls

martymar said:


> wrong time not really cuz the Raptors brass are scared that he will **** up and maybe actually trade the first round pick to get the salary cap space this year


That makes no sense. That deal has long been _rumored_ to be on the table. Babcock had plenty of time to seal that deal if he wanted it. You seem quick to judge Rob on his bad moves last year but ignore his good moves this year. We are only 1 year into the rebuilding plan. This is a total knee-jerk reaction.


My take on the move (JUST speculation): Mitchell takes heat from players and media for his poor defensive decisions at the Laker game. MLSE takes heat for the game and the state of the team. Mitchell complains to Embry and Peddie, saying he lacks the talent to rep the team well. Babcock goes out.... just speculation,but total knee jerk reaction.


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## speedythief

What did Rob do this year (2005) to deserve this?

Honestly, if they are still pissed about Araujo/Carter, why not fire him sooner?

This year has been a good one for Rob.

MLSE is ****ed up.


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## trick

Yao Mania said:


> I suspect there's more to this story then what we've seen on the surface...


Definitely, since the pieces Peddie has given to us don't fit together, and he is known to talk himself out of rough situations. He said he wanted a GM with more experience than Babcock and yet he was the one who hired him in the first place, after having done his so-called homework throughout the whole hiring stages last year. He likes the current direction the team is going on and yet he relieves the person who undertook the rebuilding stages.

If I had to guess, maybe there were some conflicts on deals that MLSE and Rob couldn't agree upon. Maybe MLSE was forcing Rob to trade for Artest or that Rob wasn't handling the Rose and James situations too well, or at least not to their liking.

In any case, knowing the Snake Peddie is, he's bound to keep the important stuff in house.


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## speedythief

I'm still irate over this.

The timing of it was pretty cowardly, IMO. You know they never would've done this when we were in the midst of our winning streak. They wait until we get home from that awful road trip and then do it, almost as if to soften the blow. *****s.


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## martymar

speedythief said:


> What did Rob do this year (2005) to deserve this?
> 
> Honestly, if they are still pissed about Araujo/Carter, why not fire him sooner?
> 
> This year has been a good one for Rob.
> 
> MLSE is ****ed up.


It's true that he should have been fired after last season, however I don't think Richard Peddie would have admitted to a mistake so soon. I believe Kobe nailed the final nail into Rob Babcock coffin. he built this team, he was the one responsible hiring Sam Mitchell

Just remember prior to Babcock 
the Raptors Projected Starting Five
PG Jalen Rose
SG Vince Carter
SF Morris Peterson
PF Chris Bosh
C Donyell Marshall

this year starting Five
PG Mike James
SG Morris Peterson
SF Jalen Rose
PF Chris Bosh
C Rafael Araujo


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## MjM2xtreMe

Unknownone said:


> You realize that Erving had no front office/management experience, right? As in he had none then and no team since then has taken a chance on his skills of assessment as deemed by Vince... Getting Erving is like recruiting Isiah, not b/c of any demonstrated ability, but b/c he can talk a game and presents well: no substance, all surface - kinda like society @ large in general today...


Ur right he didnt have alot experiences but that wasnt the point i was making. My point was since VC knew Erving, VC wouldnt recommend Erving unless they werent on the same page. VC wanted to win right away. Do u think he would want Erving hired as GM if he was just gonna rebuild? I doubt it.


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## Unknownone

MjM2xtreMe said:


> Ur right he didnt have alot experiences but that wasnt the point i was making. My point was since VC knew Erving, VC wouldnt recommend Erving unless they werent on the same page. VC wanted to win right away. Do u think he would want Erving hired as GM if he was just gonna rebuild? I doubt it.


I'm not being contentious here, but Erving has very little to no experience whatsoever - Vince recommending Erving should demonstrate Carter's lack of ability to judge character: Tank Black, anyone? Hiring Erving would be a PR coup, but beyond that? As far as I can tell, Erving's best post-playing decision was part ownership of a Coca-Cola bottling plant in the Philadelphia area... And many years ago when JR Reid and Scott Williams were a frontcourt tandem @ UNC, I remember Erving gushing over Reid during a halftime interview of a Tar Heels game - you see what a journeyman career Reid enjoyed in the NBA: that's great personnel assessment on Erving's part given that Williams had a better if unspectacular pro career...


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## ballocks

blowuptheraptors said:


> Whoever they hire, he had better have been taking the pulse of this draft class since the last draft.
> 
> Priority #1.


i'm worried about this, too. i thought rob was a competent scout, and he was always on trips. what are we going to have now? in some ways it's even worse because we have embry running the show for the rest of the season and we'll find our long-term replacement in may _at the earliest_. so it's either the "new guy" is involved for 2 months prior to draft time, after the euro season, after march madness, scouting strictly on the basis of video, reputation and workouts *OR* embry makes the pick(s) and the "new guy" joins the team after the draft, conceivably after july's freeagentmania, to set himself up for 06-07. ugly.

it doesn't work for me either way- and this draft is huge for us. i don't know what the real issue was with rob, but the ***hole in me would've seriously kept him along for the draft- if only to ensure some quality talent from our two picks- before sending him on his way. i mean, that's obviously far from ideal, but i think it's also far better than what we're going to do now.

he must've been canned for something he was planning to do at the deadline- but even that doesn't make sense because he never officially had final say on anything. higher management could always step in.

i'm just so confused because embry and peddie were both firm and decisive in front of the microphone today- leaving me with the impression that not only was it a "no brainer", it was absolutely necessary. *embry too*, and wayne doesn't even _want_ to be our manager. did rob sleep with their wives on wednesday?

peace


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## MonsterBosh

We still don't know why Babcock was fired by Peddie and what he said was just coverup statements.

I think the loyal Raptor fans deserve more than just something like "a difference in philosophy" ... because we have all heard Babcock repeatedly saying that the MLSE was "on board" for the long term plans that he had laid out.

My guess is that Peddie finally did not agree with Babcock's long term plan and perhaps wanted to trade or not trade players now and mess up the long term planning Babcock laid out. It could not have been the Raptors record because it was a team under construction and nothing more .... and I doubt that Mitchell was much of a factor unless he and Embry convinced Peddie there was a better way .... then we have a nasty little conspiracy against Babcock and his brother.

The players know but they won't talk about it .... so based on the Raptor's specled history of GMs and coaches, I think that Peddie had better say something definitive why Babcock was fired suddenly.

The Raptor fans at least deserve that .....


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## Dee-Zy

martymar said:


> It's true that he should have been fired after last season, however I don't think Richard Peddie would have admitted to a mistake so soon. I believe Kobe nailed the final nail into Rob Babcock coffin. he built this team, he was the one responsible hiring Sam Mitchell
> 
> Just remember prior to Babcock
> the Raptors Projected Starting Five
> PG Jalen Rose
> SG Vince Carter
> SF Morris Peterson
> PF Chris Bosh
> C Donyell Marshall
> 
> this year starting Five
> PG Mike James
> SG Morris Peterson
> SF Jalen Rose
> PF Chris Bosh
> C Rafael Araujo



Is it just me or Rose at PG and Marshall at C is really painful right in the middle of my guts right now?


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## martymar

Dee-Zy said:


> Is it just me or Rose at PG and Marshall at C is really painful right in the middle of my guts right now?


well that was Kevin O'neal starting line up, he played Rose at point since Alvin Williams was injured


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## shookem

I think the timing is easily explained:

-Richard: "Rob what do you have on tap? Any moves?"
-Rob: "Well, I'm going to wait to see what the market looks like post-Artest and make some calls."
-Richard: "Artest, yeah, they got a pretty good player for him and he wasn't even playing, Are we going to get nothing for one of our players again?"
-Rob: "What do you mean?"
-Richard: "Like with Marshall last year"
-Rob: "Maybe, we'll have to see what the market in saying."
-Richard: "Why don't you come to my office and we'll talk about the future a little more?"
-Rob: "What ever you say dick"


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## lucky777s

Here is the sad truth.

Peddie has NO PLAN on how to fill the GM role.

He has already said there is no way the position will be filled during this season, and possibly until the end of the playoffs for GMs on those teams.

The beginning and end of their plan is HOPE that the TOP man with a successful record at a club will want to come here for the 'challenge' and of course the pleasure of working side by side with Peddie and having Embry overlooking his every move and critiquing it with Peddie in his office every day. Sound tempting to anyone?

That is the plan - HOPE.

Peddie also admits that while he doesnt' give Sam coaching advice, he constantly gives him 'leadership' advice because Peddie has been a CEO and 'leader' for 20 years. So he really is meddling in basketball despite his constant denials.

Peddie also says that he makes time to speak with Embry all the time and loves listening to all his old war stories. The guy is star struck, then looks at Babs and says "gee, this guy has no stories to tell. And the papers say nobody respects him. Maybe I should make a move".

Peddie says that Rob showed improvement in year 2 but didn't live up to expectations. What expectations? Where should this club be right now? The re-build began last December with the VC trade. And we are supposed to be immediately better?

Firing him after year 1 would have been an overreaction to bad publicity. Firing him now when he seems to have found his stride is just stupid.

The fact is unless they can get Jerry West or Donnie Walsh to move here they will ONCE AGAIN be left with a Rob Babcock type candidate, or an out of work former GM.

Peddie also doesn't understand how LUCK decides a GMs fate quite often. Orlando getting Penny and Shaq in the lottery 2 years in a row. Michael Jordan falling into Chicago's lap in the draft. San Antonio lucking into Tim Duncan because of injuries to a good team and tanking. Grant Hill decides to leave DET and that actually killed ORL and made DET great in the end - that's luck.

Donnie Walsh is a 'genius' yet how did the AD for Jon Bender trade work out for him. He got totally rooked - may as well have traded AD for Ramon VandeHare for what he got from Bender. He also let Al Harrington get his way and moved him to Atlanta. He could have traded Artest in the summer but now he has let that situation turn into another lost season for Indiana. Imagine if a Toronto GM did all that.

I would bet John Hammond is their big target. But what has he really done in DET? Dumars is the guy there. Hammond got scared off by the search process last time. Too long, too public, and waaaayyy too many candidates. 

Peddie is in charge of the process again. He said that he did an extremely thorough job the first time. What has changed? Has he learned something or will he blow the process again.

How can the board take his recommendation seriously? Its just a circus.


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## Benis007

I hate to think that this was some sort of knee jerk reaction to Kobe dumping 81 on us.

The way I see it.. it was Sam or Babs getting the axe.


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## butr

ansoncarter said:


> hope so, but I doubt it.
> 
> mlse never wanted to rebuild in the first place. It's a minor miracle they stuck it out this long imo



What choice do they have I ask you? When you are on the bottom, you have to build up. From what Wayne was saying, I don't think he is going for a bandaid solution anytime soon. That would be retarded. bandaid for the 8th spot? Are they that stupid? Time will tell.


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## ballocks

Benis007 said:


> I hate to think that this was some sort of knee jerk reaction to Kobe dumping 81 on us.
> 
> The way I see it.. it was Sam or Babs getting the axe.


i don't know if that's tongue-in-cheek, but if you're right and the kobe game had something/anything to do with this decision, i'm handing in my raptors fan card. that would be enough. the inferiority complex around this city would be killing this team.

get out while i can.

peace


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## butr

ansoncarter said:


> why'd Rob draft araujo then? in his press conference today he said it was because he was the right guy to put beside Vince
> 
> his origional vision for the team, which he was hired on, was to build around Vince


Unfortunately, this was a vision that was also desired by the team. I mean do you think MLSE asks what your vision of this team is before the hiring. MLSE wanted to keep VC. I would bet a pretty penny that the visions of other GMs included blowing VC out and rebuilding from the get go, and that is why they were immediately cast out

VC was a cash cow and they were in no hurry to get rid of him even thought the TEAM sucked. Only when VC was self-destructing would MLSE approve that deal.

See it all comes back to MLSE. Rob is just the patsy.


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## ansoncarter

they say it was a difference in philosophy

if it's not about the plan taking too long, maybe it was the character stuff. They like talent and only talent, Rob preaches character, and then they all fight over it


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## lucky777s

Embry stressed the exact same values and opinion about character as Rob.

Here is a nice quote from the past:
----
"Nothing's ever going to change around here," Kevin O'Neill told me on the day he was fired as Raptors coach. "Not with these people in charge."

And then he said: "Nobody will work for that guy."

That guy was Richard Peddie, who is running out of bad hires and corporate cliches.
----

There were several stories two years ago about how Peddie pissed off most of the league during his the Babcock search. He stole Glen's rolodex and just pestered every exec in the league with questions and seeking advice. Embarassed the franchise, and scared away the top candidates. He has no class and no credibility.

To hear him brag about helping teach Sam leadership skills was just sickening.


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## TDrake

I'm still bemused by the timing of this thing. After sleeping on it, I'm inclined to think that MLSE do have a hot prospect in the wings for the GM job. So, they dump Rob now so he can't "redeem" himself by lucking into a hot trade before the deadline and at the same time they hold off on bringing in the new guy 'til after the deadline, so he's not under any pressure to make a move right away if nothing good develops. Meanwhile, Interim Embry's in position to grab any good deal that crops up - he can take the credit or the blame and no one else is affected.

This is just conjecture on my part, of course, but the timing makes sense if they bring in a new guy after the deadline - he still has lots of time to prepare for the draft and other off-season moves without having to work the phones so hard for immediate trade deals. 

Who it could be is anyone's guess - guys who could be available are Michael Jordan and Don Nelson. Or MLSE could get permission to deal with someone already working - again, this could arguably be the least disruptive time of the year for an existing front office guy to be moved out. Is Jim Buss looking to supplant Kupchak and would Mitch look at coming here? The promotion to President might have some appeal in that scenario. Maybe John Hammond's come around to the idea of coming here? I saw Rod Thorn's name mentioned as a possibility somewhere, althought that'd really surprise me.

So, maybe something'll happen sooner than we think ... :twocents:


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## ansoncarter

lucky777s said:


> Here is the sad truth.
> 
> Peddie has NO PLAN on how to fill the GM role.
> 
> He has already said there is no way the position will be filled during this season, and possibly until the end of the playoffs for GMs on those teams.
> 
> The beginning and end of their plan is HOPE that the TOP man with a successful record at a club will want to come here for the 'challenge' and of course the pleasure of working side by side with Peddie and having Embry overlooking his every move and critiquing it with Peddie in his office every day. Sound tempting to anyone?
> 
> That is the plan - HOPE.
> .


yup. Definitely doesn't sound like theres some mystery guy just waiting in the wings

not a mindreader (yet) but he sounded a little desperate trying to explain how a plethora of cadidates would be open this summer. Almost like he was convincing himself at the same time

whole situation looks like a placebo for jumpy board members


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## Turkish Delight

I just gained some respect in Dave Feschuck. Here's a guy who has constantly been critiquing the organization, most notably Rob Babcock, but he said it was much too early. He was also asked if Sam Mitchell should be fired, but he said it was much too early for that as well. He was saying that both of these guys were rookies when they were first hired, so there are obviously going to be bumps along the way, and obviously the MLSE couldn't handle that.

He diverted the blame of the organization not on who's been hired, but who's been doing the hiring, most notably Richard Peddie.

Is there any way this guy can distance himself from the basketball and hockey operations of this organization? For the love of God, no one is going to want to get that position.

Also what I found very interesting was that in the previous GM search, the MLSE didn't go after anyone, instead they announced somewhat of an Open House, where people who wanted the job would come to them. Is this any way to find the best guy for the job? All the top candidates will not want to step into a room and give in a resume of why they think they are deserving for the job. I doubt they'll be stupid enough to make this same mistake twice, and at least this time it seems that they're going to spend some more money out there.


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## SkywalkerAC

I'm not going to be too elaborate here but needed to post my two cents. 

I was a little shocked by Babcock being taken out so early but not angered by it, despite liking what the guy has done. 

It's a cold-hearted, ***hole move to fire him at this point as he's done the dirty work and has brought in a number of intriguing prospects. However, with the spring cleaning already done, I think this is a more attractive situation that could entice a better GM. Perhaps more important than being better, a new GM won't have to operate under the shadow of Vince and Iguodala. 

I'm still curious as to why this move was really made but I'm happy to have Embry stand in for the moment and the potential to land a better GM for the long run.

Will have to see how it plays out but there was a reason Babcock was let go.


----------



## flushingflash

so does anyone expect embry to make any significant moves before the break?


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## ansoncarter

flushingflash said:


> so does anyone expect embry to make any significant moves before the break?


I don't think he will. I get the impression he's here for his name and image. And for his connections around the league

Doubt he's been actively scouting teams


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## nwt

If anyone is interested in this
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blo.../espn/blog/index?name=sheridan_chris#20060126
PM me I'll give you the article


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