# SI has Pacers making the playoffs



## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Link



> 8. Pacers: Last year they finished just one game out of the playoffs -- even with O'Neal sidelined for most of the season. Ford, if he stays healthy, is an upgrade at the point over Jamaal Tinsley. The Pacers also added a quality combo guard in Jarrett Jack and a reliable true center in the 7-foot Nesterovic, who averaged 12.4 points and 6.1 rebounds in the second half of last season. With Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy, the pieces are there for coach Jim O'Brien to run his type of fast-breaking, three-point-shooting system.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

They're in my "maybe" category. I could see it happening.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

We have a lot of talent 1-3 but we really need a starting caliber C and PF. Nesterovic and Foster are both good players, but they aren't shot blockers and thats what we need right now. Players like Dwight Howard killed us last season when JO was out because we had no shot blockers. We have a lot of assets right now so we need to be working the phones. Problem is, who on the market is starter worthy?


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Personally 8th in the East is the absolute best I see us doing. I don't think we will make the playoffs this year. Too many changes in such a short amount of time.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Personally 8th in the East is the absolute best I see us doing. I don't think we will make the playoffs this year. Too many changes in such a short amount of time.


I think we'll finish higher than 8th. Maybe it's just me, but I think this team is really going to surprise a lot of people.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Well as I see it I believe we are better than these teams in the east:

Bobcats
Bucks
Wizards
Nets
Knicks
Bulls

We could be better than:

HEAT
Raptors
76ers (unlikely)

So if we really are better than all of those teams, we would be at 6th. But yet again I doubt we are better than the 6ers but if they don't get a shooter we could be.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

DienerTime said:


> Well as I see it I believe we are better than these teams in the east:
> 
> Bobcats
> Bucks
> ...



haha, not even the great TJ Ford/Nesterovic combo could make that come to fruition.

the Pacers, COULD slip into 8th, but still doubtful.

riding on the fact that Ford/Rasho have never missed the playoffs.. ever..


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

southeasy said:


> haha, not even the great TJ Ford/Nesterovic combo could make that come to fruition.
> 
> the Pacers, COULD slip into 8th, but still doubtful.
> 
> riding on the fact that Ford/Rasho have never missed the playoffs.. ever..


I said could. 

If JO isn't healthy, and Calderon doesn't improve, then they could slip to 8. If JO isn't healthy and doesn't give much then thats a huge downgrade in talent losing Ford. I don't care that him and Calderon both played PG, he still was important to your team. I think you're sleeping on us a little bit too. This is a decent team that we have put together.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

DienerTime said:


> Well as I see it I believe we are better than these teams in the east:
> 
> Bobcats
> Bucks
> ...



If the Wizards can stay somewhat healthy they are a better team than us. And to say we can be better than the RAPTORS is absurd. Yes we did improve but not to the point where we are better than Toronto. Lets not forget we did give them Jermaine O'neal. Toronto has a better bench, better big men, and a better starting point guard. And I see the Heat being a good team this year. D-Wade is healthy, they now have Michael Beasely and they still have Shawn Marion. That is a dangerous threesome. And we have no chance at being better than the Sixers. They are going to be real good this year if Brand stays healthy. Its possible that Atlanta, Chicago, Milwaukee AND New Jersey being better than us too. Who knows how it will go this season. It's just that damn tight. It's a possibility we make it but its very doubtful. This is how I think the East will go...


1. Boston
2. Detroit
3. Philly
4. Orlando
5. Toronto
6. Cleveland
7. Miami
8. Washington
------------
9. Atlanta 
10. Chicago
12.Milwaukee
13. Indiana
14. New Jersey
15. Charlotte
16. New York


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

That is really off. Detroit is not near being the second best eastern team, I think the Cavs or the Magic have that spot. Washington is not very good. Jamison can not keep up what he did last year, and Arenas only makes that team worse (record wise). They aren't the healthiest team either. Ford and Calderon are on the same level as point guards, both can average 10+ assists if given the minutes and both can score 15+ points. I don't see how you can call Calderon much better if any right now. Ford is only held back by injuries, and I see that getting better this season. the HEAT are good, yes, but they haven't even signed Marion yet and they have about the worst big man rotation in the league. They have no starting center, and the PFs they have are all undersized. I think he have a good chance of making the playoffs.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

This is how I see the East rankings should be

Boston
Detroit
Orlando
Cleveland
Philly
Washington
Toronto
Atlanta

Milwaukee
Chicago
New Jersey
Indiana
Miami
Charlotte
New York

Indiana has improved somewhat by adding TJ Ford but even if he stays healthy and plays 75+ games (a major if), the Pacers still have tons of holes in their lineup. They basically have no inside game and no allstars to lead them. Granger and Ford are borderline stars that may improve into allstars down the road but I just don't see either of them being able to elevate their games to lead the team next year. Guys like Murphy/Dunleevy/Jack have been inconsistent for most of the last 2 years and the odds of all 3 of them being locked in next year are just not that good.

I do think the Pacers are going in the right direction by getting rid of JO. But I don't really see how people are so optimistic about them record wise next year. I am predicting a 30-35 win season, 25-30 if Ford goes down and miss more than half the season.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

DienerTime said:


> That is really off. Detroit is not near being the second best eastern team, I think the Cavs or the Magic have that spot. Washington is not very good. Jamison can not keep up what he did last year, and Arenas only makes that team worse (record wise). They aren't the healthiest team either. Ford and Calderon are on the same level as point guards, both can average 10+ assists if given the minutes and both can score 15+ points. I don't see how you can call Calderon much better if any right now. Ford is only held back by injuries, and I see that getting better this season. the HEAT are good, yes, but they haven't even signed Marion yet and they have about the worst big man rotation in the league. They have no starting center, and the PFs they have are all undersized. I think he have a good chance of making the playoffs.


It's not like our big men are all that much better than Miami's. And Detroit is nowhere near being the second best team in the East? Why? They didn't lose anyone. Why can't Jamison keep up what he did last year and how does Arenas make them worse record wise? Sure he is a little selfish but to say the Wiz are better without him is silly. And Calderon is better. Why do you think Toronto kept him over Ford? I've seen Ford and Calderon play WAAAAAY more than you have and believe me, I would take Jose Calderon on my team over TJ Ford in a split second. I wouldn't even have to think about it.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Lets see..

Detroit is getting old. Everyone including me is expecting them to be a lot worse this year because Rasheed is about 34 now and Billups is into his 30s too. They just arent that good anymore.

Jamison I expect to lose a step for the reasons above this one, age. And yes, if you look up the Wizards records you will see that when they have Arenas they have a worse record. 

Calderon might be a little better, but its not a landslide. Ford is not a bad point guard at all. I also think that Calderon's % stats aren't going to be as good this coming year.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

DienerTime said:


> Lets see..
> 
> Detroit is getting old. Everyone including me is expecting them to be a lot worse this year because Rasheed is about 34 now and Billups is into his 30s too. They just arent that good anymore.
> 
> ...


Rasheed (34), Billups (33), Rip (30), Prince (28). It's true they're getting old but they aren't really *that* old, at least not to the point where their record all of a sudden takes a plunge from last year because a guy went from 33 to 34 or 32 to 33. The team is well coached defensively and as long as they keep up their defense, that is a 50 win team even if a couple of their starters have injuries. Their young guys like Stuckey and Maxiell are also good role players and provides adequate depth for the entire season.

Arenas has been injured for all of last year and the playoffs the year before, it's hard to say that he makes the Wizards worse because he's out there playing hurt. When he's healthy he's one of the most explosive scorers in the league today.

As for Calderon vs. Ford the debate has already been going on for 2 years on the Raptors board. I for one think that they are quite equal but the thing with Ford is he will almost certainly have some injuries during the year. The frustration the Raptor fans had the past couple years with him is that he always seem to get injured just as he was starting to play well. It takes time for a PG to get in sync with the team and when Ford misses games it's always a step back for him and for the team.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

The thing is though, Detroit has lost some of that chemistry they had before that set them apart. None of their players can carry a team so they rely on everyone contributing so if Rasheed and Billups both take a step down, that is a bigger hit than the usual. Its like with Cleveland, they have a player that carrys their team offensively so its okay if someone like Ilgauskas has a down year because he can make up for that. Who is going to make up for Rasheed and Billups if they lose some of their offense? Hamilton is a good player, but he wil probably stay right where he is. Stuckey will help, but I don't think this will be his huge year yet where he scores 20 ppg. They just aren't the second best team in the east. I think that they will be right at 5 or 6.

As for the Wizards, records have shown that they play better win/loss wise without Arenas. Thats pretty much all I can say about that, because I can't explain why they do. I just think that they are over rated around here, they are not much if any better than us in my opinion.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

DienerTime said:


> The thing is though, Detroit has lost some of that chemistry they had before that set them apart. None of their players can carry a team so they rely on everyone contributing so if Rasheed and Billups both take a step down, that is a bigger hit than the usual. Its like with Cleveland, they have a player that carrys their team offensively so its okay if someone like Ilgauskas has a down year because he can make up for that. Who is going to make up for Rasheed and Billups if they lose some of their offense? Hamilton is a good player, but he wil probably stay right where he is. Stuckey will help, but I don't think this will be his huge year yet where he scores 20 ppg. They just aren't the second best team in the east. I think that they will be right at 5 or 6.


I don't really get your logic. If a team is carried by a couple of players wouldn't a drop in production from their main players be a bigger hit than if a team is led by multiple players? If Lebron goes out for the season the Cavs will go from a playoff team to a top 3 lottery team. Meanwhile if Billups goes out the Pistons will drop perhaps 5 games in the win column. And chemistry doesn't decrease with age. In fact, team chemistry gets better as players play longer together and these Pistons have been together for most of the decade. Besides the Magic (which have some problems of their own), there isn't another team in the East that can overtake the Pistons for that 2nd spot. The Cavs are most dangerous in the playoffs because of Lebron and the rest are just longshots to win more than 50 games.

At the end of the day, this Pistons team won 59 games last year. A 5-6th spot in the East is around 45 wins. So far you just haven't given enough reasons to justify them dropping a whooping 14 wins with basically the same roster. Unless they pull a Chicago Bulls(which is possibly the biggest surprise last year), people are just not reasonable with their predictions regarding the Pistons.

Again, I'm not predicting the Pistons to reach the Finals or even get past the Cavs in the playoffs. But as far as the regular season goes, they are going to be right up there with Boston come April.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Their chemistry has gotten worse. I'm really tired of arguing, point is the Pistons do not have that fire they had when Ben Wallace was there. Yes, the Cavs would be terrible without Lebron. But thats not my point. My point is the Pistons do not have someone to make up for Billups and Wallace declining. My point about the Cavs is that they have someone to carry them that can make up for others slacking. The Pistons don't and they will be doing a lot of declining soon. Players aren't the same when they get in their mid 30s. The Pistons were really good even though they didn't have a superstar a few years ago but now that their borderline stars are getting old they have nobody to do the scoring.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

As I said, this team won 59 games last year. The Pistons may not be good enough to get past Lebron in the playoffs but as far as the regular season is concerned there have been no signs of a let down in the past 5 years.

To me, that is a much better reference point to predict their record then simply going by a couple players getting a year older as if somehow that is going to make them go from a 59 win team to a 45 win team. Just face it, it's very unlikely. Rasheed and Billups are only 33 and 34, not 43 and 44. Even then if the Pistons won 59 games with guys at 43 years old they're not going to all of a sudden lose 14 games just because they got a year older.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

The East has gotten stronger as well. As i've said, i'm tired of arguing. Let next years record speak for itself.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Looks like I was right about the Pistons and Wizards.. though it's not looking likely for us to make the playoffs.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

I was definitely wrong about the Cavaliers.


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