# Danny Ainge has been all wrong so far



## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

I was just cleaning out my house and came across some papers from the day after Antoine was traded away.

In it he says the Celtics will be a better team with out Antoine.
Wrong on that account

Then he said they would be a better rebounding team 
Wrong Again


Then he said they would take only a small step backl

Wrong again.


It was very interesting to read these comments and many others from Ainge because he is clearly just wrong so far. He also mentioned how we could still make the playoffs and even have a better chance of winning more series with Walker gone.

I know it is early but it just seems like Ainge made a snap judgment and now we are all paying for it.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

So did you expect Danny to admit that he made a mistake on the day after the deal lol?


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> So did you expect Danny to admit that he made a mistake on the day after the deal lol?



:laugh: :laugh: hahahahahhahahaa

Trading Antoine was not a bad idea. He was going to walk at the end of his contract. However, this particular trade was HORRIBLE for several reasons(that made me very upset at the time of the trade):


1. Timing: Never trade a guy when his stock is so low around the league

2. Even if his stock was low, it was not that low. They f'ing gave Antoine away.

3. They have not actively tried to do anything else since that trade and have basically just kept the same old line-up minus Antoine. Why not play the rookies?


good job Danny Ainge, you let the guy go for absolute fodder and then don't have the balls to tell the coach to get his *** in gear. I have given Danny the benefit of the doubt unlike some other people, but I must say my patience is running thin when he lets the coaching sitiation get as bad as it is now. Meet your 2003 celtics, the mediocre veterans tour starring Waltah, Jumaine, and everyone's favorite Tony Battie!


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Danny Ainge*

Let's use Ainge's full exact quote, shall we?

Ainge on the trade: "We are a better rebounding team. We are a better shooting team. We are a better defensive team."

Last year's shooting percentage: .415 
This year's shooting percentage: .420

Last year's rebounds/game: 40.5 (outrebounded by 4.5/game)
This year's rebounds/game: 41.9 (outrebounded by 1.9/game)

Last year's opponent's FG%: .435
This year's opponent's FG%: .373

Who is rushing to snap judgements?

You would expect a team to struggle some to find its way after a trade like that--losing a captain and a star player.

Perhaps a better question is why did Antoine wait so long to get in shape and play to better potential? To spite Danny Ainge? Oh, that's professional.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

great points. The stats dont lie


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## BleedGreen (Jun 24, 2002)

Stats dont matter. Winning games matters, and tahts something we did with Antoine. We arent looking too good without him right now.

I do think we are a better team than our record says though. We have lost alot of close games.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Here's a good stat.

This Season
86.8 PPG

Last Season
92.7 PPG

With those extra 6 points we could actually get some W's.


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y (Jul 14, 2002)

last year at the same point 9-4 Pierce avg'ing like 35 a game. This year Pierce getting 22 or 23 a game? Hello? Why do you think we are losing?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y</b>!
> last year at the same point 9-4 Pierce avg'ing like 35 a game. This year Pierce getting 22 or 23 a game? Hello? Why do you think we are losing?


Last year Pierce got the ball from Walker in the paint, this year he has to do it himself.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Danny Ainge*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Let's use Ainge's full exact quote, shall we?
> 
> Ainge on the trade: "We are a better rebounding team. We are a better shooting team. We are a better defensive team."
> ...


Antoine is only a star player in your eyes because it is an excuse to call him that. If we were still winning with him gone and he was having a hard time adjusting you would be saying he never was a star and we didn't need him.

People on this board have been complaining that we are missing 
a lot of rebounds and Ainge is not responsible for why this team has done as well as it has so far.
That reason is Vin Baker and Vin Baker alone.
Ainge would have traded him in a second if he could find someone to take his ridiculous contract.

Without Vin Baker this team would have lost every game.
Vin Baker is here because of Paul Gaston and Chris Wallace NOT Danny Ainge. The people AInge has brought on to this team are part of the problem.

Take away Vin Baker and we would be worse and struggling more then Orlando is right now. That is a fact.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*The people Ainge has brought on....*

C Kendrick Perkins (not part of the problem)
PG Marcus Banks (I think is showing some signs)
PF Brandon Hunter (not part of the problem)
PG Mike James (not part of the problem)
SF Jumaine Jones (hurt)
SF Walter McCarty (part of the problem--for now, but in a funk perhaps)
PF Raef LaFrentz (We are 1-3 without him)
SG Jiri Welsch (also showing some signs, but needs to shoot more)

As for your comments about what I would say about Antoine, you are wrong. Clearly I have defended Ainge on the trade, but if you remember the moron who was bashing Antoine with those awful poems, I was his staunchest defender, and I believe he is a star. But we had plateaued with him, and I'm not sure his attitude was that great. 

It is only 12 games, so it's too early to throw in the towel.

I agree that wins are all that matter. But can you argue that this team was championship caliber with Antoine? I want to see you try and argue that. The true measure of this trade for Boston is next year. For Dallas, it is this year in the playoffs.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> Here's a good stat.
> 
> This Season
> ...


Right. Shooting percentage means nothing unless you get enough shots. Opponents hold them to one shot because they have no presence whatsoever on the offensive glass.


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y (Jul 14, 2002)

OK so with Antoine we were a Championship caliber team? That is a joke! We lost last season and the season prior in the playoffs partly b/c Toine couldnt cut it when it came crunch time! Who dominated who last season? Martin or Toine? Dallas right now is 8-4 last season they at the same point was 13-0. Please tell me why everyone thinks this trade was sooooo great for Dallas? Have you ever heard of a thing called chemistry? You can have all the talent in the world and not win for one reason or another(i.e. Portland Trailblazers 3 yrs ago)


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: The people Ainge has brought on....*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> C Kendrick Perkins (not part of the problem)
> PG Marcus Banks (I think is showing some signs)
> PF Brandon Hunter (not part of the problem)
> ...


Any time you give Antoine any kind of credit your next line is an insult.

The Celtics will not be a NBA Championship team with or with out Antoine but the fact remains we were a lot better with him.

Getting rid of Antoine is not going to bring us a title. If San Antonio couldn't get free agrents to sign with the World Champions then please explain to me how Boston is going to get anyone to come here?

We are not going to be good enough to win a title aslong as Shaq and Duncan are playing and they will be playing for a very long time (at least Duncan will, Shaq must have 5 good years left)


Danny re-signed Walter who has been horrible. He gave Antoine away for Raef Lafrentz and what Jiri Welsch , a guy a lot of people thought had potential to be great till they saw him play for their teams for a certain amount of time. Then they couldn't get away from him quickly enough. 
Mike James is part of the problem. His last couple of games I have seen him shooting 1 for 10 during the game.

Sorry but give me an example of which players we might get to make this team win a title because there isn't any. The only players who could do that aren't leaving their respective teams any time soon and if they did Boston would be one of the last places they would come.
We certainly are not going to draft anyone with that late round pick we got from Dallas.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

I don't think Ainge is the problem. He drafted reasonably well, and put together a team capable of playing an up tempo style. The Walker trade was probably a mistake, but we really won't know until we see who Ainge brings in next year with the mid level exception. 

The problem is an ill-conceived offense and an inability or unwillingness to run. 

When is the last time you saw a Celtic player get a rebound and make a simple outlet pass? When is the last time you saw a Celtic player advance the ball by passing to man sprinting up the floor without taking at least 2 dribbles? 

I can't believe O'Brien is totally at fault. The basic 3 on 2 fast break is something that every junior high team practices. As a collegian, O'Brien was an all-conference point guard. He knows how to run a break. Then what is it?

I think Pierce is a big part of the problem, as I've stated elsewhere. So is Battie, who, when he occasionally does get a rebound, wraps his arms around the ball and waits three seconds until he can figure out what to do with it. Someone should show him some old Wes Unseld tapes. Blount is the same-- although at least he will run the floor when someone else has the ball. Mike James over dribbles and doesn't look up the floor. It's a combination of things-- bad habits they need to break.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Spurs Free Agents*

You keep bringing up the Spurs. Perhaps you won't if they defend their title. Nesterovic is a good player; quite good, in fact. We all know Mercer can play. So can Turkoglu.

As for the "we won't win in the next 5 years" crap, that's a bunch of bull. We can win the East next year, and who knows what Perkins could do in 2 years? Banks? The MLE could bring a good player next year. We were a 44 win team (joke) last year. Yes, we are not as good as that team right now, but let's talk after more than 12 games. Again, next year we are going to be so much better than last year, it won't be funny.

John is right. More personnel moves may need to be made--and maybe some coaching changes, although not necessarily O'Brien.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Oh, and you wanted some players...*

who could eventually help bring us a title....

Here are a few:

SG Paul Pierce
PG Marcus Banks
C Kendrick Perkins


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I just LOVE it when people say/said


> We are never going to win a championship with Walker


 I think thats an awesome quote.

Some idiot once said that now everyone is repeating it like a parrot. Ok, well since people look at it that way. 

The Boston Celtics will never win a championship with Pierce.
The Mavs will never win a championship with Dirk.
The Lakers will never win a championship with Shaq.
The Spurs will never win a championship with Duncan.
Why?

Because a team needs 5 freaking players on the court to win. Since Pierce came to the Celtics it has been a 2 man show, and its not because they were selfish, its because everyone around _them_ sucked. Who did we have? Walter? Mark Bryant? A Alcoholic? Joe Forte? 

Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker have gotten us as far as possible, what does that tell ya? It was time to add talent around them, or subtract one of them?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*I'll give you the Aqua Award*

Because you hit the nail right on the head. The talent around Paul and Antoine wasn't good at all. Ainge is trying to add talent and depth. Banks looks like he could become a very good player. Next year, we'll have Perkins in the rotation, 4 draft picks and the MLE. Welsch could be a good bench player by then.

Point well taken, though, that the talent wasn't there. You can't win games with JR Bremer as your point guard.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: I'll give you the Aqua Award*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Because you hit the nail right on the head. The talent around Paul and Antoine wasn't good at all. Ainge is trying to add talent and depth. Banks looks like he could become a very good player. Next year, we'll have Perkins in the rotation, 4 draft picks and the MLE. Welsch could be a good bench player by then.
> 
> Point well taken, though, that the talent wasn't there. You can't win games with JR Bremer as your point guard.


I can win as many aqua award as I'd like, but I'd like a "truth34" award. 

In 2001 we did have talent, for one year....Rodney left us (thanks dad), we lost Johnson.....hell "what if"

Vinny
Walker
Brown
Pierce
Banks

bench
Rodney
Eric
Blount
James...


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Thanks Dad Killed Us*

I mean, imagine if we had just kept the 2002 team together.

Kenny
Pierce
Eric
Antoine
Battie

Rogers
Strickland
Kedrick
Blount
Vitaly

then you lose Kenny's $9M off the cap at the end of the year.....

But the new owners aren't exactly turning everything to gold, either....I mean raising ticket prices?

:sour:


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Sick team, but its just another "what if" in the Celtics history.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

I'm not a Boston fan but I have to say I was absolutely stunned by the trade. Trading Antoine isn't the problem; getting pretty much nothing in return is. He was only worth an underachiever, a scrub, and a mediocre draft pick? Antoine is certainly worth more than that. If you trade one of the best two players on your team you better damn well get something good in return. Ainge simply didn't make the right trade.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

And which trade should he have made? The one for Croshere or the one for Thomas & Ward? Face it Walker wasn't worth much and if he stayed he would have slacked off because he was pissed he didn't get his extension. By the time the deadline rolled around he would have been untradable and bolted after the season if a trade wasn't made.

Ainge made the right move. The C's just need to get everyone healthy and gel a little more then they will be better then last year.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Excuses, excuses...That trade was a joke. If that's the best Ainge could get for Antoine, he shouldn't be allowed to manage anymore.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

You try trading a PF who takes 8 threes a game and shoots 38% from the field.


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## chapi (Apr 4, 2003)

as i said before in some threads the problem with celtics is that they don't have a good PG.
that trade sent Walker and Delk away. you got nothing for a solid combo guard, and the best point forward in the l

now your star player has to do everything. he can't create shots for himself and his teammates. your joung pg (don't remember their names Banks i belive and the second one) can't even dribble the ball well enough to make plays, thay have no court vision or passing ability. they have potential but right now the Celtics may have the worst PG (playmakers) rotation in the league (except the magic but their whole teame is ****ty)


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Epadfield</b>!
> You try trading a PF who takes 8 threes a game and shoots 38% from the field.


That's not happening in Dallas. Besides, who else was scoring in Boston other than Pierce? Look, I'm not saying Antoine's trade value was through the roof or anything but...Raef Lafrentz, Jiri Welsch, Chris Mills, and a late first round pick? Ouch. You don't think Ainge could've done any better than that?


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

Toine trade was a JOKE!!!


And what is Ainge doing these days...

"Want to know where Danny Ainge is at? He was in Delaware yesterday scouting a high school tournament. 
With two first-round picks in the Celts' pocket next June, the early line has it likely the club will take at least one young project."

I am looking forward to seeing Obie develop one more young project.
:uhoh:


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>theBirdman</b>!
> Toine trade was a JOKE!!!
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

That was funny. OB can develop talent like no one else. 
I swear, if we didn't have two all-stars who thought themselves and each other we would be nowhere.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RoddneyThaRippa</b>!
> 
> 
> That's not happening in Dallas. Besides, who else was scoring in Boston other than Pierce? Look, I'm not saying Antoine's trade value was through the roof or anything but...Raef Lafrentz, Jiri Welsch, Chris Mills, and a late first round pick? Ouch. You don't think Ainge could've done any better than that?


Really? I guess that's why he averaging 6.5 threes a game 40% shooting over his last 8 games. He had a nice start but with every game that passes he comes more and more of the player the C's saw and by the end of the season he will be back to the some old Walker and averaging 7 threes and 40% shooting for the year.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Epadfield</b>!
> 
> 
> Really? I guess that's why he averaging 6.5 threes a game 40% shooting over his last 8 games. He had a nice start but with every game that passes he comes more and more of the player the C's saw and by the end of the season he will be back to the some old Walker and averaging 7 threes and 40% shooting for the year.


No offense, but I am a C's fan, and we got creamed on this deal. We got a very late pick and had to pick up another player for an already crowded roster. That trade was a joke, just because of its timing. I know we supposedly could not get a lot for Antoine at the time, but what about now? You don't think there are certain teams that were desperate the first few weeks? ahem, the bulls. We could have packaged waltah, antoine and battie for a really solid player.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Well, Ainge had a conundrum*

You really shouldn't trade someone when his value is at its nadir, but then again Antoine was telling people he was gone at the end of the year.

Instead of Thomas and Ward, we got Mills' money, another draft pick, and a couple of players who can help us now.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Well, Ainge had a conundrum*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> and a couple of players who can help us now.


Really? I think this is a little quick on the draw, I have not seen anything amazing yet. Yet Walker scored 25 last night, go figure.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Well, Ainge had a conundrum*



> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> Yet Walker scored 25 last night, go figure.


+14rbs+6asists!

+some Dallas quotes about Toine from BostonHarald:
``Everyone loves him here,'' Mavs owner Mark Cuban said via e-mail. ``He has fit right in. People love his fire on the court and his willingness to do what it takes to help the team.'' 

``In Dirk (Nowitzki), Michael and Steve (Nash), we have three of the most unselfish All-Stars in the game, and we needed someone to come in with a Type A mentality,'' said player personnel chief and assistant coach Donnie Nelson. ``Nick (Van Exel) had that, and it was something we really needed. We like that he's vocal, because our big three are quiet guys. 

``He's given creative license to do some things, and with that comes accountability. But from what Antoine has been, we can tell that this is the piece we've been looking for ever since we got to Dallas.''


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Well, Ainge had a conundrum*



> Originally posted by <b>theBirdman</b>!
> 
> 
> +14rbs+6asists!


exactly. What has Lafrentz or Welch done for us lately? My guess, another 10 games, another big ZERO.

I must admit I was in denial at first, what true celtics fan couldn't be hopeful and in denial?


but we have to face the facts guys. We got absolutely screwed in that deal. The Mavs teams, players, and fans(just go over and look at their board) are laughing all the way to the bank.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

I guess one positive that came out of it is that Baker is getting more playing time. I just keep wondering what the combination of Pierce, Walker, and Baker would've been like. I bet we'd be better than 5-7 and still have future growth.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Yeah, right*

Until the end of the season. Also keep in mind Antoine is shooting a much higher percentage, because he'll NEVER see a double team there and he is playing with one of the best PGs in the game. Here it was him and Paul. O'Brien would have brought Baker off the bench again--defense is his priority.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

It is pretty obvious that none of you have seen Antoine play in Dallas. You are basing your opinion on stats.
There is more to Antoine then his 3 point shooting.
He is rebounding like crazy over there and his assists are getting higher every game.
He has taken over at least 3 games when others aren't playing well and is personally bringing them back into games they are falling out of. He did it against the Spurs, he did it last night and the game before that he was the only one who did anything the first 3 quarters. Everyone else was shooting horribly.


He isn't perfect and no one is pretending he is but Celtics fans are not giving him any kind of credit for how much better he is playing in Dallas then he was ever given the chance to play here.
You don't know what he could have accomplished here in Boston because Ainge gave him away before he ever had a chance to prove what he could do.
He does have a great point guard in Nash but a lot of what Antoine has been doing is not because of Nash, Dirk passes the ball to Antoine more then Nash does. Plus Antoine and Travis Best seem to play well with each other (when given the chance)
Antoine has also been doing a lot by himself.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> It is pretty obvious that none of you have seen Antoine play in Dallas. You are basing your opinion on stats.
> .


sorry, but I know how well antoin has been doing.

again, I will repeat what I said above:


We have to face the facts guys. We got absolutely screwed in that deal. The Mavs teams, players, and fans(just go over and look at their board) are laughing all the way to the bank.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Again, I will repeat what I said*

The trade cannot be judged after 12 games. The trade can only be judged after the season.

Antoine is playing outstanding basketball. All-Star (even in the West) basketball. 

The question is...why did it take Antoine so many years to get into shape and dedicate himself? A contract push, perhaps? 

I the Celtic fans among you can come to grips with the fact that he is gone. Or move to Dallas. One warning, though: It gets really hot there in the summer.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Again, I will repeat what I said*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> The trade cannot be judged after 12 games. The trade can only be judged after the season.
> 
> Antoine is playing outstanding basketball. All-Star (even in the West) basketball.
> ...


You are in denial if you think Raef Lafrentz is going to amount to anything. Jiri Welsch could be a decent player but he is never going to be great. Which means we traded a All Star for two bench warmers.

Raef has done vitually nothing his entire time in the league. The only time he did anything was when he was the main guy. He will never be the main guy in Boston with Pierce here. Or Vin, who is here for 4 more years.

The same old, If you don't like it move to Dallas posts are stupid.
Just because I don't like this trade doesn't mean I am not a Celtics fan.
Unlike Danny Ainge I don't only care what I want to do. If I was in charge of the Celtics and I wanted them to be better and or win I would use my basketball IQ to make trades and not base trades on a few TNT games from two years ago.

Antoine is doing better because he has better players. He is playing the exact same way he did in Boston but his numbers are up because he is playing on a team that doesn't just exist so Pierce can score his points.

Antoine has used the same trainor for the past 3 years. Just because you post untruths over and over again doesn't make them facts. You did this same thing with the Larry Bird doesn't like Antoine posts.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Not just LaFrentz and Welsch*

There's also a first-round choice, and $6.6M in salary coming off the cap.

Does Antoine look the same to you physically as he had the last two years in Boston?


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Not just LaFrentz and Welsch*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> There's also a first-round choice, and $6.6M in salary coming off the cap.
> 
> Does Antoine look the same to you physically as he had the last two years in Boston?


I just read a article from 2002 where someone praised Antoine for coming into camp in great shape.

What you seem to forget (because you want too) is that Antoine was injured most of last year but he actually came into camp in shape. After he hurt his knee he still played but gained some weight.
I bet if I started talking about all of Pierce's problems last year you would make excuses for him due to him falling on the ice and other injuries. When with Walker the above comments are actually 100% true and easily could and do explain why his numbers were down.

You saved luxary tax money but instead we now have Raef till 2009. In the end we didn't save anything and again tell me who is going to want to play here?
Please name anyone?
I keep mentioning the Spurs because if the WORLD CHAMPIONS can't get players then what makes you think the Celtics can?
We might have the money but no one is going to want to play here.
San Antonio could have signed Jason Kidd or Jermaine O'Neil but both went back to their respective teams.
No one is going to want to come here.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Re: Again, I will repeat what I said*



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> You are in denial if you think Raef Lafrentz is going to amount to anything. Jiri Welsch could be a decent player but he is never going to be great. Which means we traded a All Star for two bench warmers.
> ...



I hate to, but I have to agree with this guy. I just hate to admit it. But really, we got snowed in that trade. So what if we can get the MLE, if we had held off on trading Walker it's almost guaranteed we would have gotten more. How is thAT?

because we got really nothing. A couple of bench warmers, if that, a pick that may amount to nothing, and a MLE for an ALLSTAR! It pained me when they taunted us, but Mavs fans were right when they said we got Raef LaMarshmellow.

The guy has done nothing since coming into this league. Imagine how good we would be now with Vin, Antoine and PP.

I know it is in the past, but you can't let to many of these things go before revolting. Once the fans go and the media gets on him, Ainge will know to get his act in gear and to light the flame under OB who is pathetically coaching this team right now. McCarty is getting more minutes by the day! enough said


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## Flava D (Sep 27, 2003)

*Re: Re: Danny Ainge*



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> That reason is Vin Baker and Vin Baker alone.
> ...


I'm not so sure about that...as good as Baker has been playing, he reminds me of when we had Dino Radja in the mid to late 90s. He put up great numbers (20 and 10 one season) but the team stunk all in all. The celts weren't good until pierce came along and now they are struggling without toine. Baker is the kind of guy who can step in and score and rebound, but I don't think it has a great effect on the team without even better players leading the way..If Baker wasn't producing, you'd see other guys step into his role (not to say if we pull this thing together he won't be tremendously hepful - he's just more of a third or fourth option in my opinion not the second option he's become this year)


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

*Re: Re: Not just LaFrentz and Welsch*

Don't waste your time trying to explain anything to Pierce's fans because you would get further if you banged your head against a brick wall.
:yes: :grinning: 
They don't get it and never will.



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> I just read a article from 2002 where someone praised Antoine for coming into camp in great shape.
> ...


:yes: :grinning:


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Not just LaFrentz and Welsch*

That becomes clearer by the minute..
:sigh: 





> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> Don't waste your time trying to explain anything to Pierce's fans because you would get further if you banged your head against a brick wall.
> :yes: :grinning:
> They don't get it and never will.
> ...


:sigh:


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

Wow, its amazing that there are still Celtic fans defending the
trade after how good Walker has been in Dallas.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think LaFrentz sucks or anything like
that. But Walker for LaFrentz and Welsh just isn't even close.

LaFrentz is a serviceable player and Welsh does have some
potential. But Walker looks every bit like the 3-time All-Star that
he is.

I never realized how there was a base of fans in Boston who 
really did not like Walker and so no matter what he does in Dallas
they will say that it was a good trade.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*Ainge and his early reign*

Ok...I have had it.

I try to be patient. I try to be optimistic. But the Celtics just lost to the New York Knicks...FOR THE SECOND TIME THIS SEASON!!

The Walker trade was clearly bad in the short term. It was not addition by subtraction. If Walker were still in Boston the Celtics would be taking advantage of a very weak Atlantic Division. Instead the C's are a big reason that the Atlantic is so weak.

Perhaps in the long term this is still a good deal. Ainge did not intend to resign Walker after this year. So perhaps it is a matter of getting something for nothing. Wouldn't it have been more prudent to see how a fitter Walker would team up with a fitter Baker and a couple of new young point guards? The Nets have taken a fall for the first time in two years and the Celtics are not good enough to take advantage of it. If Walker were still on the team I think they would be.

LaFrentz may still work out but he makes too much for what he does. Welsh has potential. I just do not think that they are enough for Walker and Delk. 

Pierce is struggling and part of this is due to not having Walker on the team. Walker played well with Pierce. He took alot of the heat from the media. He was a vocal leader. And he was tough at times. Paul is calling his teammates out saying that they are the softest team in the league. Walker was not soft even though he played on the perimeter more often than he should have.

Ainge is looking bad lately. When a team loses fingers get pointed. If the Celtics miss the playoffs the finger should not point at Pierce...he did not trade Walker. Ainge takes the blame.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I've said this before. There is absolutely NO logic behind a Walker/Delk-LaFrentz/Welsch/Mills/1 deal.

Walker for LaFrentz? Please. LaFrentz is half the player Walker is when he's carrying extra weight on a bad leg. Also, Walker's contract is up after next season, if not after this one if he opts out. Not to mention that Walker is the only person in this organization with the balls to get in Paul Pierce's face when he's not playing well. LaFrentz meanwhile has moved about the league and received a huge contract because of potential which he has never and will never live up to. Also, his contract is hiddeous.

Why the obsession with Welsch? I thought we drafted Banks to go with Pierce as the backcourt of the future? Where does Welsch fit in there? Particularly if Jumaine Jones and Kedrick Brown (say what you will about them, Kedrick runs and Jumaine is good, just not when hurt and inexperienced in whatever system the Celtics are running) are here to be the small forwards.

Mills? Sure he has an expiring contract, but who are we struggling to resign? Its not like we have Mehmet Okur sitting there needing an extension. Also, this doesn't give us cap room, it gives us luxury tax room. If we're lucky, we'll be able to get someone like Brent Barry or an equally skilled player in here in the off season for the MLE because that's all we'll have to spend. Unless we decide to retain Eric Williams, in which case, no money for new FAs.

A first rounder can be nice, but Dallas'? The difference between the pick that we're getting from Dallas and a top second round pick is that the second rounder won't be getting a four year deal. Tallent wise, they'll be just about equal, and if there's a Maceij Lampe situation again, the second rounder would have been better.

Where is the logic behind this deal? Financially, it doesn't help us get a top free agent. Basketball wise there is absolutely no help. Why did this happen?


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*Ainge needed to show everyone who was Boss*

I think that one of the main reasons that Ainge traded Walker was to show that he has the power. Ainge does not like Walker's game, he did not want him back and Walker is a very strong personality with a bold mouth.

Ainge wants to build a team with his guys. It would be good for his ego to build a title team and hang a banner in Boston. 

I just think that his ego has sold the present for a future that is uncertain. Walker, Pierce and crap on the same team goes to the playoffs in the East. This season it looks like they would be winning the Atlantic. Instead Celtic fans are supposed to be patient and believe in what Danny is doing...with this losing streak against poor teams my patience is wearing thin.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Why did this happen?


Danny did't like him, and it seems a great reason for him. He is fun to :laugh: at. Yeah well I don't like Paul Pierce that much, it doesn't mean I would get rid of him the second I took office. What ever happned "I want to judge all the players by myself first".

Now I see why other people call the City of Boston racist. Danny made a 2 for 3 deal, and the only guys we saw was a white stiff, and a white potential player.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Ainge needed to show everyone who was Boss*



> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> with this losing streak against poor teams my patience is wearing thin.


Define "poor" the Knicks suck and have sucked for the past what? 5 years?


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: Ainge needed to show everyone who was Boss*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> Define "poor" the Knicks suck and have sucked for the past what? 5 years?


Poor, in this case, is a nice way of saying "a team that sucks". 
New York is poor. Any team that did not make the playoffs last year and are not winning this year could be considered "Poor".

I was trying to be nice, Aqua.

Is Boston a "poor" team? It sure looks like they are.

I have a trade idea though: LaFrentz, Welsh, Mills and a first rounder to Dallas for Walker and Delk. I think having Delk and Walker will give our young point guards time to mature. We will finally have that second scoring option that we need to go along with Pierce. I am pretty sure that the salaries match too.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> I've said this before. There is absolutely NO logic behind a Walker/Delk-LaFrentz/Welsch/Mills/1 deal.
> 
> Walker for LaFrentz? Please. LaFrentz is half the player Walker is when he's carrying extra weight on a bad leg. Also, Walker's contract is up after next season, if not after this one if he opts out. Not to mention that Walker is the only person in this organization with the balls to get in Paul Pierce's face when he's not playing well. LaFrentz meanwhile has moved about the league and received a huge contract because of potential which he has never and will never live up to. Also, his contract is hiddeous.
> ...


good post.

to summarize: we got our asses handed to us in this deal. get your good luck charms out everyone, here comes the LOTTERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yes:


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

We are headed to the lottery, we are absolutely abysmal right now. Thank God for Vinny Baker because he's the only bright light on this team right now. Also ya know what, we positively SUCK right now so why not let the rookies play and gain some experience for a season when we may actually compete. Kendrick has been impressing them like crazy in practice yet he has not gotten one single solitary minute yet on the floor during a game, yet Walter McCarty played forever last night! Brandon Hunter hasn't even gotten off the IL yet. LET THE ROOKIES PLAY, the season sucks anyhow. Also Mike James is already starting to grate on my nerves, he doesn't pay attention to what's going on and misses chances for open breaks and doesn't run well, let Marcus play the majority of the minutes and build up his confidence, he's showing signs of having what it takes, he just needs to work on his shot more.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Ainge needed to show everyone who was Boss*



> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> I have a trade idea though: LaFrentz, Welsh, Mills and a first rounder to Dallas for Walker and Delk. I think having Delk and Walker will give our young point guards time to mature. We will finally have that second scoring option that we need to go along with Pierce. I am pretty sure that the salaries match too.


Are you crazy! Dallas would never do a trade like that! A three time allstar+Delk for an overpaid role player+decent potential+money+late pick?! There is no way this deal goes through! Only a total moron would make a trade like that! Name one GM who would be stupid enough to do it?!
:grinning:


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mavsman</b>!
> 
> 
> I never realized how there was a base of fans in Boston who
> ...



This is one of the best points I have ever read on this Celtics board.
Certain people (namely Pierce fans) will defend this trade forever because it gives Pierce all the glory when they win. (These people never thought Pierce would fall apart without Walker)
Just look at the people from this board defending this trade still.
It proves your point.


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