# KMart or Ben Wallace



## icehole3 (Oct 25, 2002)

Both are very very good players. Ben has a ring. If you had to take one of these guys who would take?


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

After last season, I'm going to guess that Kenyon won't get a single vote in this poll.


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## Triple_Single (Mar 27, 2005)

I'm a big Kenyon Martin supporter, but next season he's going to have to prove that it really was his knees slowing him down this past season for there to be any kind of argument about this.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

This isn't even close. Wallace is a top 3 center in the league (Shaq, Yao), and KMart isn't even a top 10 PF

Top ten PFs in no particular order:
Duncan
Amare
Garnett
Dirk
Jermaine O'Neal
Bosh
Dwight Howard
Randolph (maybe)
Okafor (PF or C?)
Webber

I probably forgot someone, so add them and support my argument :biggrin:


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

The depth at the center position isn't compariable to the depth at the PF position.

Plus, I wouldn't take Zach (no defense), Okafor (ok stats on a very bad team) or the CWebb of today over Kenyon. Bosh has to prove a lot more, but at least has shown some potential. Howard will eventually be one of the top 3 centers in the game with Bogut and Krstic.


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## Triple_Single (Mar 27, 2005)

cpawfan said:


> The depth at the center position isn't compariable to the depth at the PF position.
> 
> Plus, I wouldn't take Zach (no defense), Okafor (ok stats on a very bad team) or the CWebb of today over Kenyon. Bosh has to prove a lot more, but at least has shown some potential. Howard will eventually be one of the top 3 centers in the game with Bogut and Krstic.


Agreed. Plus, you got to figure in who would be a good fit with the with the style your team is playing. The Nuggets want to be an uptempo running team, and the only one on that list who would be a clear cut better fit on an end to end running team is Amare. Of course guys like KG and Duncan you take on any team and mold your style around them. Howard will be one of those guys. 

If you are talking about defensive versatility though, I'd argue that Kenyon is at the top of the list. No one else on that list is going to hold his own guarding a perimeter player like Kenyon can. Defensive versatility isn't everyone's favorite quality to pay attention to, but it's very important for the switching and double teaming that the Nuggets want to do defensively.


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## icehole3 (Oct 25, 2002)

Top ten PFs in no particular order:
Duncan (Kenyon makes him work for his points, clearly better than Kenyon)
Amare (in the games Ive seen them play, Amare has done well on Kenyon)
Garnett (Kenyon makes him work for his points, clearly better than Kenyon)
Dirk (Kenyon makes him work for his points, clearly better than Kenyon)
Jermaine O'Neal (Kenyon makes him work for his points, clearly better than Kenyon)
Bosh (Kenyon makes him work for his points, clearly better than Bosh)
Dwight Howard (clearly better than Howard)
Randolph (clearly better than Randolph)
Okafor (they dont match up)
Webber (Kenyon makes him work for his points, really just a shell of himself)

I really wasnt trying to compare him to the rest of the PFs in the league just comparing him to Big Ben as far as importance to their teams as far as team impact


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Triple_Single said:


> If you are talking about defensive versatility though, I'd argue that Kenyon is at the top of the list. No one else on that list is going to hold his own guarding a perimeter player like Kenyon can. Defensive versatility isn't everyone's favorite quality to pay attention to, but it's very important for the switching and double teaming that the Nuggets want to do defensively.


What about the defensive versatility of Big Ben compared to KMart? These are both very good defensive players. Wallace is developing a drop step (shown last year), and therefore is developing offensively.... KMart might be the better offensive player (finishing ability), but when it comes to rebounding, there is no contest. KMart doesn't have the nose for the ball as well as Ben Wallace does. KMart doesn't use as much of his athleicism to crash the boards like Wallace.


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## Triple_Single (Mar 27, 2005)

Ben Wallace plays center...


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## njnets21 (May 29, 2005)

I'm the biggest KMart fan out there, but the answer is clearly Ben Wallace


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## Busta (Jun 25, 2005)

Kmart. Kenyon is as good a one on one defender, Ben is a better shot blocker. Ben's also the better rebounder, but Kmart's not bad. Kmart was getting 11 boards his last year in NJ and then his last month and change he got the knee thing and was getting inconsistent minutes often as little as 8 and his numbers dropped from 19 and 11 to 17 and 10. Now he's playing with Camby (none of the other elite rebounders play with another one like Camby). I think 8-9 boards would be perfect from Kenyon as long as Camby is still getting 10+. 

And Kmart's a much much better scorer than Ben. Martin could and should score more, if they'd actually get him the ball, I mean he got 16ppg on 49%.

He doesn't have much to prove to me injury or not, Denver is just a deep team in the frontcourt and with its scorers (and the pgs don't get him or others involved well).


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

Here's my opinion:

*Defense*

*on-the-ball perimeter defense-*
Ben=Kenyon They're both excellent defenders all the way out to the 3 point line, especially for big men.
*on-the-ball post defense-* Kenyon>Ben
Yup. I said it. Most of Ben's blocks come from playing the best help defense in the league, on the NBA's best team at helping out. Not a knnock on Ben, he's a great post defender, I just think Kenyon's slightly better (I'll catch some heat for this one).
*help defense-* Ben>Kenyon
Again, they're both great in this category (remember Kenyon's sideline-to-sideline help out and go crosscourt in time to deflect the 3?). But Ben's the best in the NBA, and was playing in a great system for it.
*rebounding-* Ben>Kenyon
Not much of an argument here, although Kenyon's better than he's given credit for.

*Offense*
*Shooting/Finishing/etc. (scoring in general)-* Kenyon>Ben
Not Ben's forté, but he's improving every year.

I'm still not sure (yes, I'm a Nuggets homer), I'm just pointing out it's closer than it looks.


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

Kuskid said:


> Here's my opinion:
> 
> *Defense*
> 
> ...


nicley put........


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## Nocioni (May 23, 2005)

Ben Wallace


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## SteveHartfiel (Jun 8, 2003)

icehole3 said:


> Top ten PFs in no particular order:
> Duncan (Kenyon makes him work for his points, clearly better than Kenyon)
> Amare (in the games Ive seen them play, Amare has done well on Kenyon)
> Garnett (Kenyon makes him work for his points, clearly better than Kenyon)
> ...


Im sorry, But Kenyon is NOT better then Bosh.. ANd howard wilkl be bett then him... okafor is better, but I agree wtih Randolph and WEbber... Randolph is over rated and webber has no legs...


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## het now (Jul 18, 2005)

Since im a Pacers fan im going to have to go with K Mart. If Ben had never pushed Ron then I would have chosen Ben.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

ben wallace aint good at offense but he'll kill kmart at defense.


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## The_Black_Pinoy (Jul 6, 2005)

I'll take KMart.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Ben Wallace is getting better and better every year on his offense. Obviously he is one of the best defensive players in the league. Ben has a heart of a champion and never backs down.

All the same qualities however can be said for Kenyon Martin. Except Kenyon is much better on a conssistent basis at the offensive end. So I will side with Kenyon.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Wallace is one of the best rebounders of his era, and may be remembered as consistently the best through a stretch of several years. Not quite Rodman level, but darned close. He's also one of the game's better interior defenders. To me he's just a special kind of player who generally wins out in a direct comparison over a conventional "really-good-but-not-great" player. 

For a guy who still scarcely scores, it's amazing (but clear) to me that Big Ben is the linchpin of that Pistons team. There are many important parts on that squad, but he's definitely the most valuable, and if you transplanted him onto the Nuggets team he would immediately become their most important player as well. 

I've been a Martin fan since his college days and I'm assuming he'll return to form this season. But if the Nuggets were offered Wallace for Martin in an even swap they should do it in a heartbeat. Martin clearly gives them more offensively, but Camby (who is active under the basket and has a decent mid-range jumper) is capable of contributing much more on the offensive end than he's been asked to in recent years. 

Case closed, in my amateur opinion.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

jericho said:


> *For a guy who still scarcely scores*, it's amazing (but clear) to me that Big Ben is the linchpin of that Pistons team. There are many important parts on that squad, but he's definitely the most valuable, and if you transplanted him onto the Nuggets team he would immediately become their most important player as well.


Wallace averaged 9.7 points a game last season and averages 10 ppg for his career. Not too scarce imo.

But in the end if Detroit offered Wallace for Martin I'd take it too. Wallace provides the same emotional lift that Martin does and provides for more offensive opportunities and less opposition chances w/ his rebounding. 

The free throw thing is terribly in Martin's favor however. :banana:


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

ben wallace is a much more valuable player.

Good power forwards are 15 to 20 deep in the league, excellent defensive centers are maybe 5 or 6.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

A Camby - Wallace front line would be superior on defense... talk about a block party going on.

On offense Camby-Martin is the better duo. I also see K-Mart having a break out year and putting up nicer numbers, but more importantly be more in attack mode.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

Ben Wallace


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