# Official Draft Prospects Watch



## SkywalkerAC

Just thought I'd start this thread off. 

Sheldon Williams with 20, 10, and 9 blocks last night.

Rudy Gay had 15, 5, and 3 assists with 5 blocks the other night. (I think)

Not a great first post but let's make this a great thread.


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## foul_balls

This name is flying below the radar.

Roy Hibbert, Georgetown C 7-2 270 Sophomore

8-11 FG, 7 Rebounds 4 blocks (take it with a grain of salt, against Navy)

Someone compared him to a poor man's Mutombo, so I assume he has got some size and weight.


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## JuniorNoboa

Watched the UConn-Pepperdine game on Friday evening.

Gay disappointed me against Pepperdine. His stat sheet was good at the end of the day, but he was the same as last year .... I expected him to be able to assert himself a little better on offence. The guy still does not even come close to Adam Morrison as a scorer


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## shookem

screw Gay, Boone the UConn superstar!

i must admit i didn't see the game, maybe Nooba can tells us about his performance.

here's his stat line versus peper:
J. Boone, F-C	34	6-7	6-8	5	12	2	2	18

that's five off. rebs, 6-7 from the floor.


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## Unknownone

foul_balls said:


> This name is flying below the radar.
> 
> Roy Hibbert, Georgetown C 7-2 270 Sophomore
> 
> 8-11 FG, 7 Rebounds 4 blocks (take it with a grain of salt, against Navy)
> 
> Someone compared him to a poor man's Mutombo, so I assume he has got some size and weight.


He's still pretty raw from all accounts - he was overweight coming in from Georgetown Prep to the Hilltop - the better underclassman prospect has to be 6' 9" power forward Jeff Green, who not only competed against Rudy Gay in high school in Maryland, but also was co-Big East freshman of the year last season... My alma mater has been stocking up recruits coming up tho' - Vern Macklin, DeJuan Summers, and Doc Rivers's own son Jeremiah as well as in 2007, Austin Freeman from famed Hyattsville DeMatha high - this lending credence (from a recruiting vantage point) to present coach JTIII's proclamation last year: We are Georgetown - some have forgotten - we will remind them. Time to pay a visit to DC again sometime soon, methinks...


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## JuniorNoboa

I have Georgetown in my preseason top 15 - there time is now.


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## bigbabyjesus

Has there been any NCAA games on, in Canada thus far? I'm not talking about any special sports packages either. Digital cable or satelitte.


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## adhir1

shookem said:


> *screw Gay*, Boone the UConn superstar!
> 
> i must admit i didn't see the game, maybe Nooba can tells us about his performance.
> 
> here's his stat line versus peper:
> J. Boone, F-C	34	6-7	6-8	5	12	2	2	18
> 
> that's five off. rebs, 6-7 from the floor.



that sounded funny....


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## Unknownone

vigilante said:


> Has there been any NCAA games on, in Canada thus far? I'm not talking about any special sports packages either. Digital cable or satelitte.


Some pre-conference tournament games so far - Maui Classic continues tomorrow on Raptors TV if I'm not mistaken...


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## italianBBlover

Bargnani in 25 minutes => 20 points, 6 rebounds, 4 steals, 1 assist


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## JuniorNoboa

Keep the updates coming italianBBlover.


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## The Truth IV

Any and all references to Josh Boone ought to be banned until someone makes a plausible case that he should be taken anywhere in the first round. Not a good shooter, no handle even for a big man, not strong by NBA standards, pear shaped body, no vertical to speak of, absolutely no room on the Raps roster. He has good hands and a knack for offensive rebounds (the latter will disappear when he gets to the league where everyone is stronger and 6"3 guards can elevate higher than him).

He's like Sean May without the jumper or the strength - and Sean May is no future all-star anyway.

I like Shelden Williams much better - will be one of the strongest players in the league not named
Shaq from the get go. Can take other centres outside and shoot. Can jump a little and block shots
like crazy. Has some good post up moves and is bound to add more. Although only 6"9, with his strength he should be able to adequately guard most true centres other than Shaq and Duncan (and nobody can guard those guys anyway). Always comes up huge in big games which is a great sign.
He's not going to carry your team but I think with CV3, Bosh and Williams, you'd have a great front-line unit for years to come.


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## ballocks

strange draft class coming. i'm still trying to form the raps' strategy, but i think it's the perfect year (if ever there were one) for drafting the "best talent available". i mean, we'll have two picks, so if nothing else we'll be able to move up a rung or two on the ladder to target a player we _really_ love. but even if we don't package the two, i can't justify filling roster holes at the draft when we're due to enjoy meaningful capspace just 12 months later.

we can "fill holes" on the free agent market in 2007 (although even that group is... relatively weak, imo). we should probably continue to stockpile sheer talent in the meantime. i'm guessing that's the plan, and if it were, i'd be in full support.

peace


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## Benis007

ballocks said:


> strange draft class coming. i'm still trying to form the raps' strategy, but i think it's the perfect year (if ever there were one) for drafting the "best talent available". i mean, we'll have two picks, so if nothing else we'll be able to move up a rung or two on the ladder to target a player we _really_ love. but even if we don't package the two, i can't justify filling roster holes at the draft when we're due to enjoy meaningful capspace just 12 months later.
> 
> we can "fill holes" on the free agent market in 2007 (although even that group is... relatively weak, imo). we should probably continue to stockpile sheer talent in the meantime. i'm guessing that's the plan, and if it were, i'd be in full support.
> 
> peace


Or package a pick with Rose for someone who can play now.


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## SkywalkerAC

ballocks said:


> strange draft class coming. i'm still trying to form the raps' strategy, but i think it's the perfect year (if ever there were one) for drafting the "best talent available". i mean, we'll have two picks, so if nothing else we'll be able to move up a rung or two on the ladder to target a player we _really_ love. but even if we don't package the two, i can't justify filling roster holes at the draft when we're due to enjoy meaningful capspace just 12 months later.
> 
> we can "fill holes" on the free agent market in 2007 (although even that group is... relatively weak, imo). we should probably continue to stockpile sheer talent in the meantime. i'm guessing that's the plan, and if it were, i'd be in full support.
> 
> peace


Good point. I don't think we have any gaping holes, compared to what we have had in the past (or to what Atlanta is running with) and there's absolutely no reason we won't go after the best player. 

Does Babs have to get a center or a point in this draft? Not really. He'll probably get one of the two but not because we need to go in either direction. 

However, we will be looking for a certain kind of player, a certain kind of toughness, of course. I think Babs is going go after athletic guys that can play D at their position. I don't see us taking a Nemanja or even an Adam Morrison.


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## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> Just thought I'd start this thread off.
> 
> Sheldon Williams with 20, 10, and 9 blocks last night.
> 
> Rudy Gay had 15, 5, and 3 assists with 5 blocks the other night. (I think)
> 
> Not a great first post but let's make this a great thread.



It was a nice line but, it was Davidson.


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## trick

Currently watching the Gonzaga/Maryland game on Raptors NBA TV and they'll also have the Arizona/Kansas afterwards as well as Arkansas/Connecticut later toinght. It's the first time I've seen Morrison play and he's quite impressive. It also gives us (college noobies) the chance to check out Ronnie Brewer and Rudy Gay, and all the hoopla that's surrounding them.

I'm starting to like NCAA hoops


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## adhir1

trick said:


> Currently watching the Gonzaga/Maryland game on Raptors NBA TV and they'll also have the Arizona/Kansas afterwards as well as Arkansas/Connecticut later toinght. It's the first time I've seen Morrison play and he's quite impressive. It also gives us (college noobies) the chance to check out Ronnie Brewer and Rudy Gay, and all the hoopla that's surrounding them.
> 
> I'm starting to like NCAA hoops


tell me what u think about Adam Morrison..i was watching that game earlier...and only thing i got out of it was he is very versatile...


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## trick

adhir1 said:


> tell me what u think about Adam Morrison..i was watching that game earlier...and only thing i got out of it was he is very versatile...


You're better off asking JunioNoboa or butters for their insight. They're the resident college junkies around here. It'd be premature of me to make an assessment on a player whom I've only seen play once. 

One thing I can tell you is that the commentators keep referring to him having Larry Bird-like style (which I don't buy much into) and that he needs to shave that moustache away.


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## JuniorNoboa

The Bird comparisons are unwarranted as they are for any white player who can score over the past generation. He is not the playmaker or rebounder that Bird was... and no forward has ever been.


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## JuniorNoboa

I am looking forward to seeing Brewer. I have seen maybe half an Arkansas game while he was there.... so with him I am going purely on heresay.

And I also look forward to seeing Lemarcus Aldridge... I think he will be a top 5 pick, 15pts, 14 bds, tonight against West Virginia including the winning tap with 4 sec's left, and then a block on the last play of the game.

Alridge could well be a better option then Williams. We will have to see.


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## JuniorNoboa

The Kansas team has alot of young talent... there are probably 3 or 4 future first rounders .... but who will they be>


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## onecooljew

A few HUGE nights for some guys tonite...

Morrison: 25 pts 9 boards
Gay: 28 pts 11-19 FG
Aldridge: 14pts 13 boards

And the game of the nite goes to...

Rajon Rando...
5pts...
5ast...
19 rebounds...
For a 6' nothing PG...


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## Rhubarb

A nice play from man of the moment Rudy here


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## bigbabyjesus

Rudy was dominant. Showed his beautiful stroke and ability to get to the basket with ease.

First time I've seen Brewer play. I was impressed. He is a great defensive player that can really slash to the basket, and shoot a little bit. 

Boone was invisible with foul trouble.

I was impressed with Rush's athleticism and defensive ability (for someone that touted as a horrid defender).

and Rondo.. *19 REBOUNDS!!!*.. I still can't believe that.


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## CrookedJ

Last night Morrison threw down *43 points * and 7 boards in a triple overtime win over Mich St. 14-28 from the field, 11-12 from the line, 4-8 for three pointers. 7 Rebounds, 2 steals, 4 assists.

With the hair and 'stash he reminds me of Jonathan Davis from Korn!!


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## billfindlay10

I know he is not a top prospect...but take a look at Denham Brown's numbers from the first 3 games....he is playing great ball for one of the top 5 teams in the country...will we se him in the draft...maybe we take him in the second round...he is not a tweener like Mendez, and he has good size for the 2-3 spot


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## SkywalkerAC

billfindlay10 said:


> I know he is not a top prospect...but take a look at Denham Brown's numbers from the first 3 games....he is playing great ball for one of the top 5 teams in the country...will we se him in the draft...maybe we take him in the second round...he is not a tweener like Mendez, and he has good size for the 2-3 spot


Good size for the 3? Isn't 6'5 a generous measurement for him? I think Devin Brown is a pretty good comparison for him.

Rudy had an poor game last night. Anyone have any insight?


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## SkywalkerAC

Definitely going to be keeping my eyes on Rondo (freak of a guard) and Aldridge (if Frye's a potential center, he definitely is) and even Morrison (who looks like he knows how to play the game).


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## -James-

I completely forgot about Aldridge. What ever happened to him? I remember hearing about him a couple years ago then didn't hear a thing about him in the past year and a bit. Do either of the college junkies think he'd be a good fit here?

And did anyone see Ronnie Brewer? How did he play?


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## SkywalkerAC

-James- said:


> I completely forgot about Aldridge. What ever happened to him? I remember hearing about him a couple years ago then didn't hear a thing about him in the past year and a bit. Do either of the college junkies think he'd be a good fit here?
> 
> And did anyone see Ronnie Brewer? How did he play?


LaMarcus got injured last season but apparently he's come in bigger and much improved. Had a good opening game.


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## JuniorNoboa

Lemarcus has been 15-14 and 18-10 the last two games against quality opposition. He will be on my radar this year.


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## Chris Bosh #4

I watch Aldridge alot and IMO we should take him with our first pick IF Rudy isn't available. He's huge now and he's a 6-11 250-255 PF/C. He can be our center of the future. We better hope to hell that Villanueva can play center. Any questions on Aldridge just ask.


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## butr

Shelden got in some BS foul trouble v. Drexel. Refs were bloody blank. Awful. Still having a decent game with 18 and 7 in reduced minutes so far.

The early fouls reduced his desire for blocks, has none.

Rudy was certainly inconsistent. That second game was CRAP. Denham was not too bad. 

Morrison was good but I have my doubts about him.


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## shookem

/\/\
He finished with 20 and 9 in 29.
-Gay had 10 points in 21 mins, Morrison had 18 in 36.


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## ansoncarter

Chris Bosh #4 said:


> I watch Aldridge alot and IMO we should take him with our first pick IF Rudy isn't available. He's huge now and he's a 6-11 250-255 PF/C. He can be our center of the future. We better hope to hell that Villanueva can play center. Any questions on Aldridge just ask.


does he wear an earring

does he have a big frame

does he have long arms


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## ballocks

in my opinion, although it's not easy to admit, this draft class is looking more diluted than any in recent memory- and that's assuming the "big names" even declare themselves eligible. i understand that some fans will see names in lottery slots on online mocks and simply assume their talent to be worthy of that standing, but man, of the players i've seen, i'm hardly impressed.

i haven't seen every game that, for instance, rudy gay has played as a collegian, but he doesn't excite me... at all. as a pro, i wouldn't want him on my team, especially under his #1 cloud. and given how he's developed- or hasn't- since he first emerged, i'm not exactly looking forward to his pro career.

adam morrison was also on the tube yesterday and, sheesh, he's not an inspiring cat either. he has some fun attributes to his game, don't get me wrong, but he's (imo) mediocrity personified. and yet these two are locks for the lottery. i'm just praying that there's something to their respective skillsets that's running unbeknownst to me at the moment, because i just don't see it. and i never have.

i don't want to bring anyone down here, if you're a fan of some collegian that you expect to make waves in the nba, please don't listen to me, but i'm just saying that i'm not excited about the '06 pool the way i was for '03 or '05- it's not even close. regarding the abovementioned two in particular, it almost makes me weep to accept what's coming: _scottie pippen! larry bird! scottie! larry!_ if either one makes it in the pros as a (super)star, i'd be legitimately surprised. in fact, i think i'd be shocked. 

i do like shelden, though, i'm hoping his 6'9'' frame will scare away our competition, but he's not a pillar around whom to build a team. not that we need one, but i'm starting to consider the possibilities for dealing our picks in favour of something else, dealing them to a team like chicago or new york that seems to love blockbuster headlines ahead of blockbuster futures. 

i've never seen bargnani, i've never seen aldridge, so there's some hope there, but if they're being ballyhoed at all in the same way as rudy or morrison (among others), i'd get out of the lottery asap. '06 looks weak to me, and that's putting it mildly. hopefully i'm wrong or something/someone unexpected explodes onto this barren scene.

peace


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## bigbabyjesus

I hope these same people who are doubting Rudy Gay weren't Marvin Williams' fans. Because Gay is the better play without a doubt, IMO. I also think anyone would admit he has more potential.


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## kirk_2003

Joe Johnson from Arkansas, Ronnie Brewer is FROM Arkansas... 

hmmm... concidence?


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## Chris Bosh #4

ansoncarter said:


> does he wear an earring
> 
> does he have a big frame
> 
> does he have long arms


I wont bother answering the first question  Aldridge has long arms, and IMO shoulder length is bosh-esque hence the Bosh comparision. Although he has far more definition on his arms than Bosh.



kirk_2003 said:


> Joe Johnson from Arkansas, Ronnie Brewer is FROM Arkansas...
> 
> hmmm... concidence?


Who knows  although something you should all know if Johnson is a slightly better shooter, but worst slasher, and a worst passer, but a little better defensively than Ronnie Brewer IMO.


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## kirk_2003

another thing... you got it here first Paul Davis from Michigan State will be a high first rounder... Can make it to the lotto if he has a strong show this upcoming year...  theres no way he gets past the first round...


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## The Truth IV

Paul Davis? really? I never envisioned that his game would translate to the pros. Next time I get a chance to see him play I'll re-consider - but I always thought he'd be too slow, not strong enough and not quick enough to fit in anywhere. 

Does anyone get the Rogers digital NCAA package? Is it any good? Will I be able to watch 2 games a night and preserve my marriage? My wife is gracious enough to happily sit back and see me watch every single minute of March Madness but I don't know if I can stretch it to the entire season.
Does anyone PVR (aka TIVO) games and watch them later. It's great for the NCAA because no one at work typically walks up to me and says "Hey, did you see Kansas beat Fresno St. last night?".
And you can pick up a paper without seeing who won NCAA games?

And why don't the Toronto papers have the NCAA scores? Would it kill them? They have every junior B hockey score from every little hole in the wall arena in Ontario. Does anyone care if Bowmanville beat Keswick in OHA action? Does this post have anything to do with this thread at this point?


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## CrookedJ

The Truth IV said:


> Paul Davis? really? I never envisioned that his game would translate to the pros. Next time I get a chance to see him play I'll re-consider - but I always thought he'd be too slow, not strong enough and not quick enough to fit in anywhere.
> 
> Does anyone get the Rogers digital NCAA package? Is it any good? Will I be able to watch 2 games a night and preserve my marriage? My wife is gracious enough to happily sit back and see me watch every single minute of March Madness but I don't know if I can stretch it to the entire season.
> Does anyone PVR (aka TIVO) games and watch them later.* It's great for the NCAA because no one at work typically walks up to me and says "Hey, did you see Kansas beat Fresno St. last night?".*
> And you can pick up a paper without seeing who won NCAA games?
> 
> And why don't the Toronto papers have the NCAA scores? Would it kill them? They have every junior B hockey score from every little hole in the wall arena in Ontario. Does anyone care if Bowmanville beat Keswick in OHA action? Does this post have anything to do with this thread at this point?


Welcome to the boards, hadn't noticed your first few posts.

I guess you need to get a better job. I found this site, as I got sick of not being able to find anything but a sumamry of last night raptors game inthe TO papers. Not only do thaey have juior B scores but you can find endless horse racing BS, what everyone on the PGA tour shot, Bla bla bla bla bla. The Toronto BBall writers/ sports editors are drooling hockey perverts. Now I saw that as a man that is a big hockey fan, but i can only care so much.


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## CrookedJ

Draft Express has some player reviews up from the Guardian Classic and Preseason NIT

Features on:
Risers:
LeMarcus Aldridge
JJ Redick
Darius Washington
Shanwe Williams
Jordan Farmar
Rodney Carney
Mike Gansey

Neutral:
Sheldon Williams
Josh McRoberts
Rajon Rondo
PJ Tucker

Falling Stock:
Daniel Gibson
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1131


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## shookem

wicked, thx. :biggrin:
I really like the early projections on LaMarcus Aldridge.
Screw the twin towers of Toronto, I'm talking about the Triple Towers of TO!


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## CrookedJ

shookem said:


> wicked, thx. :biggrin:
> I really like the early projections on LaMarcus Aldridge.
> Screw the twin towers of Toronto, I'm talking about the Triple Towers of TO!



The Toronto Tripod - - - the Trifecta Baby!!!!!!!


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## shookem

CrookedJ said:


> The Toronto Tripod - - - the Trifecta Baby!!!!!!!


That's what I'm talking about. The only thing I wonder is what is his real weight? I've seen it listed anywhere from 235-245 lbs. I've also seen him listed as 6'11" and wonder if it's a real 6'11 or a Villanuava 6'11.


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## Unknownone

The Truth IV said:


> Paul Davis? really? I never envisioned that his game would translate to the pros. Next time I get a chance to see him play I'll re-consider - but I always thought he'd be too slow, not strong enough and not quick enough to fit in anywhere.
> 
> And why don't the Toronto papers have the NCAA scores? Would it kill them? They have every junior B hockey score from every little hole in the wall arena in Ontario. Does anyone care if Bowmanville beat Keswick in OHA action? Does this post have anything to do with this thread at this point?


I don't see Davis being more than just a journeyman player similar in career arc to perhaps a Danny Ferry; as for Toronto papers not carrying NC2A scores, it's obvious that despite basketball enjoying more popularity internationally/overall than podunk hockey, there are people who won't acknowledge that and still are slavishly transfixed (and this includes media pundits)...


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## CrookedJ

shookem said:


> That's what I'm talking about. The only thing I wonder is what is his real weight? I've seen it listed anywhere from 235-245 lbs. I've also seen him listed as 6'11" and wonder if it's a real 6'11 or a Villanuava 6'11.



Well that article says its time to stop comparing him to Bosh and Fyre and star comparing him to Camby or Dwight Howard. Well thats kind of circular logic, as Camby ( especially young Camby) is very comparable to Bosh. I must admit I like the Dwight Howard talk though. They are certainly selling him as a center in the L. I've heard* him listed at 250, as well as 240 and 245. Draft express has him listed at only 225 on their profile. He looks a hell of alot bigger than 225 ( last years Bosh)

* ninth hand internet rumour.


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## CrookedJ

More updates: 

NBA Draft.Net has reviews up of the Maui invitational.

Strong play by Morrison, Maurice Auger, Denham Brown, Paul Davis and others.

Thought that Rudy gay coasted a bit and his "stock" takes a fall, along with Hasan Adams, and Nik Caner Medley. Not sure how much Gay's stock falls when the same website has him projected to go #1 overall.

As for Denham Brown, they're impressed and have him as a late 1st round pick.

http://www.nbadraft.net/stockwatch011.asp


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## butr

CrookedJ said:


> More updates:
> 
> NBA Draft.Net has reviews up of the Maui invitational.
> 
> Strong play by Morrison, Maurice Auger, Denham Brown, Paul Davis and others.
> 
> Thought that Rudy gay coasted a bit and his "stock" takes a fall, along with Hasan Adams, and Nik Caner Medley. Not sure how much Gay's stock falls when the same website has him projected to go #1 overall.
> 
> As for Denham Brown, they're impressed and have him as a late 1st round pick.
> 
> http://www.nbadraft.net/stockwatch011.asp


I watched a lot of the Maui. Gay looked to coast. Not impressive at all. I don't know if he'll stand up to be #1 if he plays like he has. If I had the #1 now, I would not select him.

Brown looks better, like he has more confidence this year.

Morrison looked good, but It will be interesting to see how he will translate to the A. He seems like a winner.


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## SkywalkerAC

James White's college season is off to a good start and he's getting great reviews from his coach. Sounds like he's starting to put it together. Article's on draftexpress.


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## butr

Watched my tape of the Duke/Mem. game.

Shelden with 30, 8 and 3 on 11-13.

I'll be alone, but I would prefer Shelden to Gay.


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## CrookedJ

blowuptheraptors said:


> Watched my tape of the Duke/Mem. game.
> 
> Shelden with 30, 8 and 3 on 11-13.
> 
> I'll be alone, but I would prefer Shelden to Gay.


All put backs and dunks or can he shoot a mid range J ? Haven't seen him play in a while.


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## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> Watched my tape of the Duke/Mem. game.
> 
> Shelden with 30, 8 and 3 on 11-13.
> 
> I'll be alone, but I would prefer Shelden to Gay.


I dunno, I still can't figure out what position he'd play at the next level.


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## aizn

if Gay were more challenged and put up the same numbers, put me on his bandwagon!


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## butr

Watched my Duke/Ind tape.

Shelden with 13, 9 and 6 on 6/9.

Redick was unbelievable.


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## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> Watched my Duke/Ind tape.
> 
> Shelden with 13, 9 and 6 on 6/9.
> 
> Redick was unbelievable.


Shelden got the blocks, but still allowed Killingworth to shoot over 75% and score 35+. He got a bit owned last night, but too his credit he stepped it up big time on D in the last five-six minutes.


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## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> Shelden got the blocks, but still allowed Killingworth to shoot over 75% and score 35+. He got a bit owned last night, but too his credit he stepped it up big time on D in the last five-six minutes.


A lot of his stuff came off the dribble. The other stuff was him having great position inside. The guy is a beast at nearly 270. Shelden plays straight up an awful lot because the refs give ticky tac calls if he tries to block everything.

As for Crooked's question, most of his stuff is 1) post-position lay-ups, lay-ins or hooks 2) put backs 3) dunks.

Duke generally asks him to get deep and go up for it if there. If doubled he fires back out immediately to Melchionni, Reddick or whomever for a 3 or reset.

But, on the occasion that he does come to the flank he will and does make his shots. You won't see it because they have perimeter players and a lot of their game depends on Shelden being inside.

He is so strong down there and with his reach I think he can play centre. One inch doesn't matter when most of the C's in this league are not 7 foot. He can step away should he need to, but his post -game, rebounding and D are reason enough for me to want him.

IMO if you put him on our roster today, he would instantly be our best rebounder and interior defender.


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## shookem

I don't know about williams, but I think JJ Reddick could be a useful NBA player.


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## Porn Player

oh yes the next ray allen rite there ^^^^^^

hope ma boy reddick is taken with our second pik in the draft


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## butr

shookem said:


> I don't know about williams, but I think JJ Reddick could be a useful NBA player.


What is it exactly about Williams you don't like?


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## bigbabyjesus

blowuptheraptors said:


> What is it exactly about Williams you don't like?


It's gotta be his massive forehead..


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## shookem

Nothing in particular (besides his size). He's a great college player. I just can't see him making a huge impact on the next level. I'm not saying he can't have a couple of respectful seasons in the NBA.
I guess if I had to pick something besides his size, it would be how does he guard this new breed of NBA 5's you speak of. They may be smaller, and 4's may be bigger, but both are quicker and more athletic. Can Sheldon guard the cream of this crop? I don't think so, not in the NBA. Not when more and more 4's and 5's are able to play around the perimeter. 
But he could be a nice, rough, blue collar, banger that comes off the bench and doesn't let you down in too many ways.
Like I said, in college, I cant' think of to much I don't like about him, it's how I think he'll do in the NBA. I don't watch every Duke game so I'm sure I'm missing lots about his skill set, but when in doubt, go with your gut...


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## butr

shookem said:


> Nothing in particular (besides his size). He's a great college player. I just can't see him making a huge impact on the next level. I'm not saying he can't have a couple of respectful seasons in the NBA.
> I guess if I had to pick something besides his size, it would be how does he guard this new breed of NBA 5's you speak of. They may be smaller, and 4's may be bigger, but both are quicker and more athletic. Can Sheldon guard the cream of this crop? I don't think so, not in the NBA. Not when more and more 4's and 5's are able to play around the perimeter.
> But he could be a nice, rough, blue collar, banger that comes off the bench and doesn't let you down in too many ways.
> Like I said, in college, I cant' think of to much I don't like about him, it's how I think he'll do in the NBA. I don't watch every Duke game so I'm sure I'm missing lots about his skill set, but when in doubt, go with your gut...


You're allowed your opinion. Shelden does generally have pretty good footspeed and lateral quickness. Generally, his weakness against bigger as in thicker guys like Sean May or Killingsworth on Indiana. Those guys just use their bulk. But who can guard those guys if they get good position one-on-one?

The other thing you mentioned is his skillset. Unless you watch every game you will miss some of his lesser advertised qualities. As you probably know Duke's O is based on the 3 so the big guys tend to stay down low to create space. Carlos Boozer never got to showcase his midrange game which turned out to be pretty damn good. As a 6-8 6-9 player, Boozer rebounds very well and can be very effective on O. Shelden is not Boozer, but likewise, people think his game is limited to put backs and lay-ups because that is the Duke system. He has more than they let him show, just like Boozer. And Shelden is loads better defensively where Boozer never averaged more than a block a game, where as Shelden gets between 3 and 4.

I would never say Shelden is 25 15 and 4 but if he could get you 10, 10 and 2-2.5 blk from the 5 fulltime, would anyone here say it wasn't a good pick given our weakness inside and on the boards?


----------



## butr

vigilante said:


> It's gotta be his massive forehead..


That's how he gets all those boards, by scaring the **** out of people.

:biggrin:


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> I would never say Shelden is 25 15 and 4 but if he could get you 10, 10 and 2-2.5 blk from the 5 fulltime, would anyone here say it wasn't a good pick given our weakness inside and on the boards?


I see him as more of a Kurt Thomas type of player then a Boozer, but you see him in more games. Thomas had a couple of nice seasons and floats between starting and backup mintues in the NBA, but is a valuable player.
I would say it's a bad pick, depending on when he's taken and who's left on the board, who have we taken before him (because there's no way you're suggesting using our first pick on him, are you?). Maybe if we take Morrison or Gay, then we take him if he's around. 

In their careers, who will play longer? Reddick or Williams? My money's on Reddick.


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> I see him as more of a Kurt Thomas type of player then a Boozer, but you see him in more games. Thomas had a couple of nice seasons and floats between starting and backup mintues in the NBA, but is a valuable player.
> I would say it's a bad pick, depending on when he's taken and who's left on the board, who have we taken before him (because there's no way you're suggesting using our first pick on him, are you?). Maybe if we take Morrison or Gay, then we take him if he's around.
> 
> In their careers, who will play longer? Reddick or Williams? My money's on Reddick.


In no way would I advocate taking Shelden with our pick, ie 1 thru 4, hopefully top 3. I do advocate trading out to say 5-8 and take him in this range and get some added value.

Unless Rudy Gay steps it up, I am not sold on him and would trade out of the chance at him or the PFs.

I do like Redick, unlike some that think he is undersized. If anyone watches him, he is far more than a 3-pt stand still shooter. His game on O far more resembles Rip Hamilton without the hops. Hits floaters and runners, puts the ball to the deck, runs off screens for 3s or mid range shots. I absolutely take him if available for the Denver pick, I doubt he'll last.


----------



## shookem

yeah, I agree with you about Reddick. And I'm not really sold on Gay either. I do really like Alridge and Morrison though.
I'll be watching these guys as close as I can, but truthfully, untill CBS starts putting on weekend games, I'm just reading this stuff. I will really look at Williams closely when I see him again this year, but I feel if this team does do bad enough to get a top three pick, we need a big impact the next year.


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> yeah, I agree with you about Reddick. And I'm not really sold on Gay either. I do really like Alridge and Morrison though.
> I'll be watching these guys as close as I can, but truthfully, untill CBS starts putting on weekend games, I'm just reading this stuff. I will really look at Williams closely when I see him again this year, but I feel if this team does do bad enough to get a top three pick, we need a big impact the next year.


You need ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPN U. Directv.

You get most all of the top 25 and big name college games all week long. Great stuff.


----------



## Ballyhoo

Yeah, this is from the Maui finals on ESPN:

Announcer1: Morrison throws up a prayer...
(ball goes in)
Announcer1: ...and it's answered!
Announcer2: His prayers get answered a *lot*.

Gay was guarding him at the time btw.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Anybody catch the Nevada-Kansas game yesterday. Watched quite a bit of it, Nick Fazekas was great. 37 pts, 6-9 shooter. Not sure if he is a great battler inside, so not a good pick for us, given our team's current makeup, but I defintely think he is a top 15.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> You need ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPN U. Directv.
> 
> You get most all of the top 25 and big name college games all week long. Great stuff.


Or watch it all legally for $27 a month. Best money I spent this year.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> Or watch it all legally for $27 a month. Best money I spent this year.


 :biggrin:


----------



## osman

Rudy's Stat line against Southern Texas

22pts 5reb 4ast 5stl 5blks in 27min


----------



## shookem

osman said:


> Rudy's Stat line against Southern Texas
> 
> 22pts 5reb 4ast 5stl 5blks in 27min


does anybody still think this guy is Marvin Williams part 2?

Josh Boone 17 (7-11) pts, 12 rbs(7 off), 6 blks all in 21 minutes.

Uconn rules!


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Here's an obscure prospect (or unrecognized anyway on any draft site) that might gain some recognition this year.

Cartier Martin from Kansas St. 6-8 220 G/F

Avg 22 Pts, 9 Rebs, 4 Asts, shooting 63%, and 60% from three


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Raise another name that might rise

From Gonzaga - J.P Batista , 6.9 / 269

Avg. 21 Pts, 9Rebs, 56%. Only 2 blocks in 5 games however. Probably not a C.


----------



## adhir1

there is a UK/UNC game on NBC right now...i was watching a little bit after the half...man can Rajan ROndo pass that rock..he finds people soo well...things that u cant even see on the tv screen he finds...


----------



## shookem

adhir1 said:


> there is a UK/UNC game on NBC right now...i was watching a little bit after the half...man can Rajan ROndo pass that rock..he finds people soo well...things that u cant even see on the tv screen he finds...


it was on CBS, they're playing the Army / Navy (football) game now.

I saw it to. I was impressed with Rajon Rondo, he ended up with 20 pts on 9-11 FG's, but he was only 2-6 from the line. He also made some horrible play making calls down the stretch in that game, ie: driving for another lay-up when his team needed a three.
I'll be keeping my eye on him too.


----------



## frank_white

shookem said:


> does anybody still think this guy is Marvin Williams part 2?


no, because rudy was smart enough to return to college for another year to develop his game.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I think Shawne Williams is my guy with the Denver pick.

Freshman for Memphis. 6'8-6'9 lanky frame, an athletic freak. Can shoot the hell out of the ball. Beautiful stroke. Can hit it from anywhere on the floor. Ballhandling needs work.

Best comparison would be Rashard Lewis.

This of course depends who we take with our first pick.


----------



## foul_balls

Unknownone said:


> He's still pretty raw from all accounts - he was overweight coming in from Georgetown Prep to the Hilltop - the better underclassman prospect has to be 6' 9" power forward Jeff Green, who not only competed against Rudy Gay in high school in Maryland, but also was co-Big East freshman of the year last season...


Jeff Green does seem like a really good prospect. But is he a SF? Just wondering because he seems to be rebounding really well, so I thought he might be playing PF, closer to the hoop. Nice line against Vanderbilt: 6-10, 14 pts, 9reb, 1 stl , 4 blks

Found this interesting article: 
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/college/s_303171.html

"...Calhoun, who made it a point to say Green is the second-best frosh in the conference behind UConn forward Rudy Gay....He's not as mature as Carmelo was, but he doesn't look like a freshman, either....Green, a native of Hyattsville, Md., has tremendous upside -- literally and figuratively. A self-described gym rat, Green has not finished growing. The 18-year-old sprouted nine inches between the ninth and 12th grades and doctors tell him he could eventually climb to 6-11." 


Roy Hibbert against Oregon:
5-6 ,6-6FT, 16pts, 10 reb, 1 stl, 3 blks

Where do you think this guy goes? Do you think this guy, if he declares for 2006, has a chance to slip out of the first round so we take him with the 31st pick? He is currently listed going 27th in the 2007 draft at NBAdraft.net (yeah, I know that means little) but trying to get some opinions.


----------



## butr

Shelden has 21, 19 and 5 v. Virginia Tech and my ****ing VCR fails to tape the game.

What a finish


----------



## aizn

blowuptheraptors said:


> Shelden has 21, 19 and 5 v. Virginia Tech and my ****ing VCR fails to tape the game.
> 
> What a finish


yea, i heard about the heave ho on that final play...juss incredible


----------



## Unknownone

foul_balls said:


> Jeff Green does seem like a really good prospect. But is he a SF? Just wondering because he seems to be rebounding really well, so I thought he might be playing PF, closer to the hoop. Nice line against Vanderbilt: 6-10, 14 pts, 9reb, 1 stl , 4 blks
> 
> Found this interesting article:
> http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/college/s_303171.html
> 
> "...Calhoun, who made it a point to say Green is the second-best frosh in the conference behind UConn forward Rudy Gay....He's not as mature as Carmelo was, but he doesn't look like a freshman, either....Green, a native of Hyattsville, Md., has tremendous upside -- literally and figuratively. A self-described gym rat, Green has not finished growing. The 18-year-old sprouted nine inches between the ninth and 12th grades and doctors tell him he could eventually climb to 6-11."
> 
> 
> Roy Hibbert against Oregon:
> 5-6 ,6-6FT, 16pts, 10 reb, 1 stl, 3 blks
> 
> Where do you think this guy goes? Do you think this guy, if he declares for 2006, has a chance to slip out of the first round so we take him with the 31st pick? He is currently listed going 27th in the 2007 draft at NBAdraft.net (yeah, I know that means little) but trying to get some opinions.


Green's natural position likely will be PF in the pros - he's not rail thin - he doesn't mind mixing it up inside either... He also doesn't force the game, but allows for it to come to him...

As for Hibbert, my gut feeling is that he'll stay w/ Coach Thompson (III) for the full 4 years - he's still developing an offensive touch and part of the allure of my alma mater was the lineage of big men: Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Dikeme Mutombo - I just can't see him jumping unless his game really, really elevates exponentially...


----------



## billfindlay10

Adam Morrison......43 points last night....this guy will be a special player! The Zags starting point guard left with a hurt back and only played 11 minutes and Batista was on the bench with 4 fouls. Morrison kept his team in the game... and managed to take a lead late in the game.

This guy will be a cross between James Worthy and Chris Mullin....he just brings it.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Huge nights from Morrison and Williams. I'd love to land both.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

I seriously want to see Morrison play. Reports and his statlines make him out to be a special player and that's what we need on the wing. I like uber-athletes but I also like guys that just make it happen. Defense becomes the primary question- can he play at least to Wally's level. 

Have anyone here seen him play? How exactly is he "toying" with these defenses?


----------



## shookem

SkywalkerAC said:


> I seriously want to see Morrison play. Reports and his statlines make him out to be a special player and that's what we need on the wing. I like uber-athletes but I also like guys that just make it happen. Defense becomes the primary question- can he play at least to Wally's level.
> 
> Have anyone here seen him play? How exactly is he "toying" with these defenses?


I'm in the same boat. I saw three or four Zags games last year, and the kid looked hype, but apparently he has improved and is even sicker.....I think this could be a match made in heaven.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

I'm confident we're going to get another very good wing prospect with one of our picks. However, the difference between how a guy like Morrison and guys like Rush or Carney would fit with our team seems substantial...though I do covet athleticism.

Can't wait for the season college season to progress so you guys can fill me in on these players.


----------



## onecooljew

shookem said:


> I'm in the same boat. I saw three or four Zags games last year, and the kid looked hype, but apparently he has improved and is even sicker.....I think this could be a match made in heaven.


Pg-Jose
Sg-James
Sf-Morrison
Pf-CV
C-Bosh

Any takers?


----------



## JuniorNoboa

SkywalkerAC said:


> I seriously want to see Morrison play. Reports and his statlines make him out to be a special player and that's what we need on the wing. I like uber-athletes but I also like guys that just make it happen. Defense becomes the primary question- can he play at least to Wally's level.
> 
> Have anyone here seen him play? How exactly is he "toying" with these defenses?


Morrison can basically get off a shot whenever he feels like it. Just has the ability to get the ball 18 feet away from the basket, and then work his way in for a good look 10-11 feet away, and just gets the shot off, no matter how close the defender is. If he needs to get high release he does so.... 

Simply put he is a scorer.


----------



## speedythief

I can't remember seeing Morrison play, though I probably have. What concerns me about him is the obvious--people comparing him to Mike Dunleavy Jr.. Can he guard his position at all? If he can't, is he dominant enough on the other end to make up for it?


----------



## JuniorNoboa

speedythief said:


> I can't remember seeing Morrison play, though I probably have. What concerns me about him is the obvious--people comparing him to Mike Dunleavy Jr.. Can he guard his position at all? If he can't, is he dominant enough on the other end to make up for it?


And that is why I draft Gay before Morrison. Morrison is a good fit on a team that has a good defensive foundation. I think we need to pick a player for the other end of the floor. And Gay has the potential to be a tremendous shot blocker from the 3. Gay has great potential on D. 

Morrison might be smart enough to be an average defender on defence, or at least not make foolish mistakes.


----------



## Flush

The thing about Morrison is his intelligence on the defensive end. He may never be a lock down defender, but he is always in the right place, taking the right angle. 

I'm not sure if he is worthy of a top 3 pick yet. And unless he single handedly carries his team to the final four scouts will focus on his lack of athleticism. This is the kind of player that could very likely drop come draft time when players turn in freakish combine results etc and people forget about in game performances.


----------



## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> And that is why I draft Gay before Morrison. Morrison is a good fit on a team that has a good defensive foundation. I think we need to pick a player for the other end of the floor. And Gay has the potential to be a tremendous shot blocker from the 3. Gay has great potential on D.
> 
> Morrison might be smart enough to be an average defender on defence, or at least not make foolish mistakes.


Morrison could either turn out to be similar to Dunleavy or end up as a slightly better Luke Jackson - I do think that the athleticism of Gay is too attractive to pass over tho' - factor in that he's only in his 2nd year of college and his potential is unlimited - he's also prone to growing a few more inches as well (as is the situation w/ the aforementioned Green) so he may very well end up as a 6' 11" or 7' player w/ a small forward skill set...


----------



## butr

speedythief said:


> I can't remember seeing Morrison play, though I probably have. What concerns me about him is the obvious--people comparing him to Mike Dunleavy Jr.. Can he guard his position at all? If he can't, is he dominant enough on the other end to make up for it?


From what I remember of MD from college, they are different players. Morrison is better for my money and has an NBA ready body now unlike Mike. Morrison is a much better scorer. I think they both have high ball IQ though.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Yeah, I don't think Dunleavy has ever been labeled as a great scorer or even a great shooter.

Wally was a pretty great college scorer but Morrison SEEMS to be on another level.

As for Morrison's defensive fit with our team, I love that his wing mate would be Joey Graham (ie not Jalen or VC).


----------



## speedythief

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Going to have to watch him close this March.


----------



## The Mad Viking

I can't think of Morrison without thinking "Wally Szerbiak".

Any of you guys old enough to remember Wally in college?

Led a small college Miami of Ohio into the tournie. Could score inside and out, rebound and pass?

Very smart player, who wouldn't be a lock-down defender but would be smart enough not to be bad.

So he was drafted 6th, ahead of Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Corey Maggette and Ron Artest.

Sorry, I'll take a pass on Adam Morrison.


----------



## shookem

The Mad Viking said:


> I can't think of Morrison without thinking "Wally Szerbiak".
> 
> Any of you guys old enough to remember Wally in college?
> 
> Led a small college Miami of Ohio into the tournie. Could score inside and out, rebound and pass?
> 
> Very smart player, who wouldn't be a lock-down defender but would be smart enough not to be bad.
> 
> So he was drafted 6th, ahead of Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Corey Maggette and Ron Artest.
> 
> Sorry, I'll take a pass on Adam Morrison.


And take....that's the problem with these threads, nobody provides an alternative.

And it was only,... well **** seven years ago,.... I guess that is kinda a long time, damn. he was also drafted ahead of J. Bender, that's what you get for gambling with a HSer.

So far, I'd take in this order:
1. Gay
2. Alridge
3. Morrison
4. Splitter


I'd rather take Gay or Alridge, then hopefully get a scorer in Reddick with denver's pick.


----------



## butr

The Mad Viking said:


> I can't think of Morrison without thinking "Wally Szerbiak".
> 
> So he was drafted 6th, ahead of Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Corey Maggette and Ron Artest.
> 
> Sorry, I'll take a pass on Adam Morrison.


So you've identified Wally's doppelganger for the 06 draft. Please find the same for Rip, Matrix, Maggette and Artest.

I'll start you off with Redick is a short white Rip with no hops.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> So you've identified Wally's doppelganger for the 06 draft. Please find the same for Rip, Matrix, Maggette and Artest.
> 
> I'll start you off with Redick is a short white Rip with no hops.


And really how bad is Wally as a sixth pick overall? Not too bad. He's had some injury problems. If Morrison is only a bit better, avoids injuries, then he is a worthy top 5 pick. Of course, perhaps a change in skin colour would make him a more worthy draft pick for some as well.


----------



## [email protected]

onecooljew said:


> Pg-Jose
> Sg-James
> Sf-Morrison
> Pf-CV
> C-Bosh
> 
> Any takers?


why does everyone liek the idea of bosh playing Centre? no way ever.

C- Araujo
PF - Bosh
SF - CV
SG - Graham
PG - Calderon


----------



## SkywalkerAC

[email protected] said:


> why does everyone liek the idea of bosh playing Centre? no way ever.
> 
> C- Araujo
> PF - Bosh
> SF - CV
> SG - Graham
> PG - Calderon


Yes way sometimes. He's playing center part time this year and dominating. We just want to limit it to half his minutes or less. 

But nonetheless I'll take your lineup to another level:

Hoffa
Bosh
CV
Gay
Ukic


----------



## The Mad Viking

blowuptheraptors said:


> So you've identified Wally's doppelganger for the 06 draft. Please find the same for Rip, Matrix, Maggette and Artest.
> 
> I'll start you off with Redick is a short white Rip with no hops.


:rotf:

Junior - Wally is not a terrible 6th pick, but I would say somewhat weak. If (IF) Morrision = Wally, and you take him 3rd... that is a terrible pick.

Then again, this could be the 2000 draft year. Remember? 

1 NJN Kenyon Martin 
2 VAN Stromile Swift 
3 LAC Darius Miles 
4 CHI Marcus Fizer 
5 ORL Mike Miller 
6 ATL DerMarr Johnson 
7 CLE Chris Mihm 
8 CHI Jamal Crawford 
9 MIL Joel Przybilla 
10 LAC Keyon Dooling 
11 BOS Jerome Moiso 
12 DAL Etan Thomas 
13 DAL Courtney Alexander 
14 DET Mateen Cleaves 
15 HOU Jason Collier 

Without a doubt, the worst lottery ever...

16 SAC Hedo Turkoglu 
17 SEA Desmond Mason 
18 LAC Quentin Richardson 
19 CHA Jamaal Magloire 
20 PHI Speedy Claxton 
21 TOR Morris Peterson 

The 6 top post-lottery picks, as a 6 man rotation, could probably beat the best 6-man rotation you could get out of the lottery!!! 

Then it gets ugly again:

22 DAL Donnell Harvey 
23 UTA DeShawn Stevenson 
24 CHI Dalibor Bagaric 
25 PHO Jake Tsakalidis 
26 DEN Mamadou NDiaye 
27 IND Primoz Brezec 
28 POR Erick Barkley 
29 LAL Mark Madsen 

Round 2 
1 LAC Marko Jaric 
2 HOU Dan Langhi 
3 CHI A.J. Guyton 
4 CHI Jake Voskuhl 
5 CHI Khalid ElAmin 
6 WAS Mike Smith 

1 good player and 1 spare part in the 2nd round area where the Raps will be picking...


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> And really how bad is Wally as a sixth pick overall? Not too bad. He's had some injury problems. If Morrison is only a bit better, avoids injuries, then he is a worthy top 5 pick. Of course, perhaps a change in skin colour would make him a more worthy draft pick for some as well.


It would help if he were black or lithuanian.


----------



## butr

The Mad Viking said:


> :rotf:
> 
> Junior - Wally is not a terrible 6th pick, but I would say somewhat weak. If (IF) Morrision = Wally, and you take him 3rd... that is a terrible pick.
> 
> Then again, this could be the 2000 draft year. Remember?
> 
> 1 NJN Kenyon Martin
> 2 VAN Stromile Swift
> 3 LAC Darius Miles
> 4 CHI Marcus Fizer
> 5 ORL Mike Miller
> 6 ATL DerMarr Johnson
> 7 CLE Chris Mihm
> 8 CHI Jamal Crawford
> 9 MIL Joel Przybilla
> 10 LAC Keyon Dooling
> 11 BOS Jerome Moiso
> 12 DAL Etan Thomas
> 13 DAL Courtney Alexander
> 14 DET Mateen Cleaves
> 15 HOU Jason Collier
> 
> Without a doubt, the worst lottery ever...
> 
> 16 SAC Hedo Turkoglu
> 17 SEA Desmond Mason
> 18 LAC Quentin Richardson
> 19 CHA Jamaal Magloire
> 20 PHI Speedy Claxton
> 21 TOR Morris Peterson
> 
> The 6 top post-lottery picks, as a 6 man rotation, could probably beat the best 6-man rotation you could get out of the lottery!!!
> 
> Then it gets ugly again:
> 
> 22 DAL Donnell Harvey
> 23 UTA DeShawn Stevenson
> 24 CHI Dalibor Bagaric
> 25 PHO Jake Tsakalidis
> 26 DEN Mamadou NDiaye
> 27 IND Primoz Brezec
> 28 POR Erick Barkley
> 29 LAL Mark Madsen
> 
> Round 2
> 1 LAC Marko Jaric
> 2 HOU Dan Langhi
> 3 CHI A.J. Guyton
> 4 CHI Jake Voskuhl
> 5 CHI Khalid ElAmin
> 6 WAS Mike Smith
> 
> 1 good player and 1 spare part in the 2nd round area where the Raps will be picking...



What made you laugh so hard??

This is shaping up to be a weak draft for a few reasons. We can still get two contributors. I know Rob is scouting hard and will be prepared.


----------



## speedythief

What strikes me about that draft was the lack of international talent, especially in the first round. 15 college players taken in the top-15 and only one strictly international player taken in the top-23.

Hopefully we'll get more Euro talent coming out this year.


----------



## The Mad Viking

blowuptheraptors said:


> What made you laugh so hard??
> QUOTE]
> 
> "Redick is a short white Rip with no hops."
> 
> This just made me laugh.
> 
> Not a bad comp, although Redick is a terrific long range guy, and Rip couldn barely hit the trey to save his life as a rook.


----------



## CrookedJ

The Mad Viking said:


> blowuptheraptors said:
> 
> 
> 
> What made you laugh so hard??
> QUOTE]
> 
> "Redick is a short white Rip with no hops."
> 
> This just made me laugh.
> 
> Not a bad comp, although Redick is a terrific long range guy, and Rip couldn barely hit the trey to save his life as a rook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus its not like Rips game is defined by his jumping ability, its his work ethic and his knowledge of how to get his shot that makes him so effective.
Click to expand...


----------



## JuniorNoboa

SkywalkerAC said:


> Yes way sometimes. He's playing center part time this year and dominating. We just want to limit it to half his minutes or less.
> 
> But nonetheless I'll take your lineup to another level:
> 
> Hoffa
> Bosh
> CV
> Gay
> Ukic


I don't understand why Ukic would be seen as better then Calderon?


----------



## Flush

The Mad Viking said:


> I can't think of Morrison without thinking "Wally Szerbiak".
> 
> Any of you guys old enough to remember Wally in college?
> 
> Led a small college Miami of Ohio into the tournie. Could score inside and out, rebound and pass?
> 
> Very smart player, who wouldn't be a lock-down defender but would be smart enough not to be bad.
> 
> So he was drafted 6th, ahead of Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Corey Maggette and Ron Artest.
> 
> Sorry, I'll take a pass on Adam Morrison.


I have to admit my knee jerk reaction to AM was/is the same thing. But there is one glaring difference between the two great white hypes;

Wally is a headcase

All accounts claim morrison is a passionate player and student of the game. 



JuniorNoboa said:


> I don't understand why Ukic would be seen as better then Calderon?


Reports out of europe indicate that ukic is more talented. Many of these comming from fans of the franchise who have watched both players run the team in consecutive years. They also claim that ukic is much more raw at this stage and needs to develop before he is as valuable as jose, but in terms of potential Roko has a much higher ceiling


----------



## speedythief

Flush said:


> I have to admit my knee jerk reaction to AM was/is the same thing. But there is one glaring difference between the two great white hypes;
> 
> Wally is a headcase
> 
> All accounts claim morrison is a passionate player and student of the game.


Wally is a headcase?


----------



## Flush

speedythief said:


> Wally is a headcase?


Really?

Wally has been accused of several things throughout his time int he NBA. He hasn't been in the spotlight lately but I attribute that more to the problems with the rest of the franchise. 

Anyway there was an ESPN article a few years ago claiming Wally was selfish and not very well liked in the Timberwolves locker room. Even KG was overheard calling him selfish. His shot selection has always been suspect and his effort on the defensive end has been below average. 

Now most of the rumors are speculation, but there have been enough of them over the years that the truth must exsist somewhere in there.

I can't find the actual article, but here is a local writers take on the article and some other opinions of wally to boot. Even our Sam mitchell is in there!



> Terrell Brandon and Chauncey Billups tell of the pressure they feel from Wally to get him the ball, and how Szczerbiak will go so far as to steal passes meant for other teammates. Respected veteran Sam Mitchell is also quoted by name, cautioning that Szczerbiak needs to remember how much his success is a byproduct of the unselfishness of superstar Kevin Garnett. And comments by KG and veteran Gary Trent infer that Wally sometimes strays a bit too far from the smooth, team-oriented passing offense instituted by coach Flip Saunders


http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1108/article10201.asp


----------



## Benis007

http://nbadraft.net/

The first mock of the year is up.

They got us picking 1st- Rudy Gay, 20th - Ager, 31st - Paul Davis


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I really, really want to see Aldridge play this year. Because if the Dwight Howard comparisons are correct, then he is my guy.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

JuniorNoboa said:


> I don't understand why Ukic would be seen as better then Calderon?



I just through him in for fun and for the added length.


----------



## speedythief

Let's draft the big man from Dallas. Again.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

I'm liking the top 5. 

Even Bargnani has to be strongly considered. We've already got two similar players in Charlie and Chris but the three could concievably form the best frontcourt in the league. LaMarcus and Splitter could do the same.


----------



## RapsFan

Duke-Texas on CBS at 1:30 today.

Reddick, McRoberts and Sheldon Williams on display for Duke

Gibson and Aldridge for Texas.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Gibson is a brutal PG. You will see home horrible decision making

Expect Aldridge to put up big numbers. I think the landlord's defence is overrated - great shot blocker and rebounder, but he is an average post defender IMO, despite the blocks....we shall see

McRoberts has been a disappointment... I am more impressed by Hansbrough from UNC this year the Josh.

Reddick has evolved from a shooter to a scorer. Still does nothing else well.

But it will be a great game whehter you want to watch for prospects or just to see top teams in college play.


Other prospects on TV today:
Rajon Rondo from UK plays Indiana on CBS
Nick Fazekas, Jordan Farmar as Nevada plays UCLA - this is on ABC west. If you have a basic digital package you may get this.

AND RIGHT NOW 
LEON POWE and Brandon Rush as Kansas plays Cal on the score. Powe could have been (and may still be) a great prospect had he avoided the injuries.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Please post on this Texas-Duke game. I want to hear how the big guys play.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Aldridge a catch and dunk followed by an imprssive turn around post - 4 points in first 3 minutes.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Bad foul by Aldridge on Reddick - Reddick does an outstanding job of getting to the line, despite only being an average slasher (but an improving slasher)


----------



## JuniorNoboa

BTW, neither Williams or Aldridge or guarding each other.... probably will in the last 10 minutes if they are not in foul trouble.

Williams on Buckman 

Aldridge on McRoberts -


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Reddick can just f'in shoot the ball... wow. I am not convinced that he is a starter, but a great role player who can be used in certain matchups in the NBA. Worth a 15-20 pick (i.e the Denver pick)... a good role player on a championship team.


----------



## speedythief

Aldridge is taller than I expected. Better built, too. But he didn't have a big impact on the game.

Nobody did, really. It was the JJ Redick show today.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Aldridge does remind me of Dwight Howard.

He's looks to be at least 7'. He is very strong despite having a thin frame. 

I definetly see him as a C at the next level.

As of now, I'd take him or Rudy with the #1. Having 3 big men like Bosh, Charlie, and Aldridge is just ridiculous.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> Reddick can just f'in shoot the ball... wow. I am not convinced that he is a starter, but a great role player who can be used in certain matchups in the NBA. Worth a 15-20 pick (i.e the Denver pick)... a good role player on a championship team.


Wow, Redick smoked.


----------



## Sanjan

theres some news..... haha

side note first time i saw morrision play today.... after the end of that game vs osu im impressed, he might not be larry bird but hes gonna be a winner and thats what our team needs more then anything.


----------



## thekid

Is Jameson Curry still a decent prospect?


----------



## butr

CrookedJ said:


> The Mad Viking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus its not like Rips game is defined by his jumping ability, its his work ethic and his knowledge of how to get his shot that makes him so effective.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand this, but the obvious difference is one can dunk, and the other might but never does.
> 
> Redick can score from everywhere and can score of screens, floaters, ball-fakes, mid-range and outside. I am comparing Redick to Detroit Rip not rookie Rip.
Click to expand...


----------



## AirBonner

To tell you the truth I was more impressed with Marco Killingsworth from Indiana than i was of S Williams or Aldridge (although his level of competition was lower). Killingsworth's post moves and rebounding were unstoppable. Both aldridge and williams had good games but it seemed apparant to me that williams is much more polished. His moves were smoother, he was more efficient defensively and he had better positioning all of which i attribute to his experience level.


Who else watched any of the Gonzaga game vs. OSU. That shot morrison made at the end of the game ...wow.... I can't believe he meant to bank that shot in ... if he did it would just be insane. He won that game all by himself at the end. If he can close games like that in the nba I would LOVE him in TO.


----------



## CrookedJ

blowuptheraptors said:


> CrookedJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand this, but the obvious difference is one can dunk, and the other might but never does.
> 
> Redick can score from everywhere and can score of screens, floaters, ball-fakes, mid-range and outside. I am comparing Redick to Detroit Rip not rookie Rip.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I misunderstood . . .and totally agree with your Detroit Rip comparison. Redick would be a solid pick up mid fiorst round and down. Unless of course we get Morrison. Anybody else see the end of the OK St / Gon. yikes. As Chuck would say Morrisons' got onions baby. 27 and 7 rebs with a three pinter with 2 secs to go to win by 2. He's clutch; thats big performances in big wins over Ok St and Michigan St - thats the sign of a winner. Coming up big in wins over quality teams. Means a lot more than padding the stats against Div 1 fodder.
Click to expand...


----------



## AirBonner

Didn't watch this game but this is a nice recap and video

espn article and video


----------



## butr

My Dad went to the Duke/Texas game and saw none other than Rob Babcock.

He certainly got a good look at Shelden and JJ.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

blowuptheraptors said:


> My Dad went to the Duke/Texas game and saw none other than Rob Babcock.
> 
> He certainly got a good look at Shelden and JJ.


Cool. I hear neither disappointed.


----------



## Flush

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1138

Johnathan G analysis of the Aldridge/Williams Matchup. Excellent points IMO.


----------



## aizn

very nice, i wouldnt mind an outside shooter like JJ on the raps.


----------



## butr

JJ jumped to #5 on NBAdraft.net and he has at least cemented a lotto birth.

http://www.nbadraft.net/stockwatch013.asp


----------



## Benis007

I don't think he is a lottery pick IMO. The kid has a shot no doubt, but he does not have an NBA body. 

I see him as a Steve Kerr, just sit outside the 3 point line, and when someone passes you the ball you shoot.

Top 20 pick.


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> Top 20 pick.


Isn't three-quarters of the top 20 lottery?

I hope your right, I think JJ would look great in purple, if anyone can. But he is going to have to fall quite a bit, which he will, no way he goes top 5.


----------



## butr

Benis007 said:



> I don't think he is a lottery pick IMO. The kid has a shot no doubt, but he does not have an NBA body.
> 
> I see him as a Steve Kerr, just sit outside the 3 point line, and when someone passes you the ball you shoot.
> 
> Top 20 pick.


That comparison is not a good one for a number of reasons. How often does JJ get his pts off spot-up open 3s. Rarely. He usually gets them coming off screens. A tireless worker and runner. Charles Barkley himself said the Kerr comparison was BS having played against him for years. JJ does more than just shoot 3s. Anyone who says so just does not watch him enough.

Do you know what Steve Kerr did in his BEST year in Arizona? 14 pts per gm. BEST.

JJ is nearly 10 pts better and is THE focal point of the Duke Offense, not a secondary or tertiary piece. He takes the tough shots, the pressure shots not simply open corner shots off the double. He is the one getting doubled. How often did Kerr get doubled in the AA or A? Never.


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> That comparison is not a good one for a number of reasons. How often does JJ get his pts off spot-up open 3s. Rarely. He usually gets them coming off screens. A tireless worker and runner. Charles Barkley himself said the Kerr comparison was BS having played against him for years. JJ does more than just shoot 3s. Anyone who says so just does not watch him enough.
> 
> Do you know what Steve Kerr did in his BEST year in Arizona? 14 pts per gm. BEST.
> 
> JJ is nearly 10 pts better and is THE focal point of the Duke Offense, not a secondary or tertiary piece. He takes the tough shots, the pressure shots not simply open corner shots off the double. He is the one getting doubled. How often did Kerr get doubled in the AA or A? Never.


I agree, and while I'm not a fan of player projections, who do you think JJ will be like in the NBA.


----------



## aizn

shookem said:


> I agree, and while I'm not a fan of player projections, who do you think JJ will be like in the NBA.


i'd say a peja/ray allen, mayb not as athletic as allen, but shooting wise.


----------



## shookem

Slokar got 7 pts and 5 rbs in 14 mins in his last game.

Benetton Stats 

all in all his doing about 5 ppg and 3.5 rpg.

Season Stats


----------



## butr

aizn said:


> i'd say a peja/ray allen, mayb not as athletic as allen, but shooting wise.


No. Rip Hamilton, but slightly shorter.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

blowuptheraptors said:


> No. Rip Hamilton, but slightly shorter.


And a much better 3-point shot.


----------



## trick

JJ Reddick = Michael Redd?


----------



## JuniorNoboa

SkywalkerAC said:


> And a much better 3-point shot.


And a much worse defender,rebounder. 

But correct, JJ is a better "scorer" then Rip. Note the word scorer. He used to be just a shooter, but he has now become a scorer.


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> And a much better 3-point shot.



Very true. Safe to say, he is not Trajan Langdon and not Steve Kerr. Generally Duke haters, racists and well those that don't watch many games make those comparisons.

He is not a super rebounder, nor is that his role on Duke. Not an excuse, but of the 5 guys on the floor, he is not exactly first on the list to do battle. That said, he is certainly unafraid to do just that. 

He is a good defender off the ball JN. Dockery is certainly best on the ball but JJ chases as well as he eludes.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> Very true. Safe to say, he is not Trajan Langdon and not Steve Kerr. Generally Duke haters, racists and well those that don't watch many games make those comparisons.
> 
> He is not a super rebounder, nor is that his role on Duke. Not an excuse, but of the 5 guys on the floor, he is not exactly first on the list to do battle. That said, he is certainly unafraid to do just that.
> 
> He is a good defender off the ball JN. Dockery is certainly best on the ball but JJ chases as well as he eludes.


Either way, He is not the rebounder or defender that Hamilton was at UConn. He will be below average in each area in the NBA.

But alot of good scorers are subpar in those areas as well.


----------



## foul_balls

To switch gears from the Morrison, JJ Redick debate, What do people think of Taquan Dean - Louisville? 

- seems to be able to stroke it from outside, apparently a decent defender, but short for the off-guard position. Would be a good combo guard it seems. Would he not be a good choice with the Denver pick?


----------



## tbp82

First off why does everyone who doubts Morrison and Reddick have to be racist that is ridiculous. If that is the case everyone who doubts Aldridge and Gay are racists as well anyway just to get that off my chest. I view Reddick the same way I view Morrison if I was a team looking to add scoring punch off the bench to compliment my superstar(s) then Morrison and Reddick would be my first two choices but if I was looking for a franchise player they wouldn't even be in my radar. Now where does this leave the Raptors. You guys are the one team that if you don't have number one or number two should take a serious look at Reddick because Reddick would not have to be the best young player on your team he would be fourth at best behind Bosh, Charlie, and Joey Grahm. But why waste a top pick on him. He would be a decent third option behind Bosh and Charlie but if you can get Aldridge to play the 5 or Rondo the point pass on J.J. but he would be a decent compliment for your team.


----------



## Crossword

I wouldn't use our pick on JJ... Denver's pick, sure, but not ours.


----------



## AirBonner

My optimistic outlook for JJ Redick will be Kyle Korver. Not because he is white but because they both do one thing well ... shoot. Neither have handles, great athletic ability, slashing ability and both have moderate defensive ability. I wouldn't even consider touching this guy in the lottery ... he doesn't even create his own shot. The nights he puts up huge numbers are the nights when the guys who are defending him consistently get caught on screens and that just doesn't happen nearly as much in the nba.


----------



## drlove_playa

Reddick is going to be a better player than Korver. Reddick has a better 3 point shot. Reddick's shooting form is among the best in the world. The guy can't dribble or defend to save his life tho. He'd be a lottery pick if he could. But I think he will go from 15-25 in this years draft.


----------



## The Mad Viking

drlove_playa said:


> Reddick is going to be a better player than Korver. Reddick has a better 3 point shot. Reddick's shooting form is among the best in the world. The guy can't dribble or defend to save his life tho. He'd be a lottery pick if he could. But I think he will go from 15-25 in this years draft.


To say Reddick is better because has a better 3-point shot than Korver is funny. 

Korver's shooting form is among the best in the world, too. They are exceedingly similar in general, but most similar in their 3-point shot.

Korver, incidentally, was taken around #40, with many "experts" saying he should not get drafted at all. Of course he played at Creighton, not Duke.

Reddick should be a good pro. But it is far from certain he will be versatile enough to start. 

One thing we agree on - he should go 15-25 this year. I rather suspect somebody may take him higher than he "should go".

As a Raptors prospect, I think our needs are greater elsewhere, to use the Denver pick on JJ. Unless "the trade" changes our roster to create a need for 3-point shooting.


----------



## shookem

The Mad Viking said:


> As a Raptors prospect, I think our needs are greater elsewhere, to use the Denver pick on JJ. Unless "the trade" changes our roster to create a need for 3-point shooting.


We have a need for three point shooting, at least at the guard position. Mike James will probably be gone after this season and Calderon has yet to prove he can hit the backboard from the three point arc.


----------



## butr

AirBonner said:


> My optimistic outlook for JJ Redick will be Kyle Korver. Not because he is white but because they both do one thing well ... shoot. Neither have handles, great athletic ability, slashing ability and both have moderate defensive ability. I wouldn't even consider touching this guy in the lottery ... he doesn't even create his own shot. The nights he puts up huge numbers are the nights when the guys who are defending him consistently get caught on screens and that just doesn't happen nearly as much in the nba.


You need to watch more then. Comments like this can only come from those who don't watch enough.

Why else does he average 6+ FTA per game. Does it all happen on 3s. Gimme a break.


----------



## The_Notic

foul_balls said:


> To switch gears from the Morrison, JJ Redick debate, What do people think of Taquan Dean - Louisville?
> 
> - seems to be able to stroke it from outside, apparently a decent defender, but short for the off-guard position. Would be a good combo guard it seems. Would he not be a good choice with the Denver pick?


I am a huge Louisville fan, but i wouldn't do it with the Denver Pick, Heres my prediction:

Best Case Scenario: Slightly Poor Man's Ben Gordan 
Most Likely Scenario: Mike James meets Derick Fisher
Worst Case Scenario : David Wesley (Now)

Thats my 2 cents. Flame Away!


----------



## SkywalkerAC

I think the Denver pick will be well positioned to get a decent SF/SG prospect- from JJ to Shawne to Tomas. Think we might double up on wingers despite having Joey? For example, if we took Morrison with our first, might we want an uber athlete like Carney with our second?


----------



## foul_balls

The_Notic said:


> I am a huge Louisville fan, but i wouldn't do it with the Denver Pick, Heres my prediction:
> 
> Best Case Scenario: Slightly Poor Man's Ben Gordan
> Most Likely Scenario: Mike James meets Derick Fisher
> Worst Case Scenario : David Wesley (Now)


Thanks for the opinion. I wouldn't mind getting the likely scenario. I think we need a good combo guard as the first guard off the bench who can shoot threes. Either a young version of Mike James or Derek Fisher or Alvin WIlliams would fit that bill pretty well. If Ukic does come over, it would be a 3 guard rotation of Calderon, Ukic, and Dean. Where do you see this guy going then? Could we possibly nab him as 1st pick of round 2?


----------



## AirBonner

blowuptheraptors said:


> You need to watch more then. Comments like this can only come from those who don't watch enough.
> 
> Why else does he average 6+ FTA per game. Does it all happen on 3s. Gimme a break.


He averages 6+ fta per game because he is option #1 on his team and anyone with a decent shot who shoots as much as he does in college will get 6+ fta per game. I didn't say he only shoots 3s but that he has the exact same skills as Korver which you did not dispute. What are these mystery abilities that he has that will make him so much better than Korver ... His handle is average in college, his speed and athleticism are average at best, his basketball IQ is good but so is Korver's. He plays at Duke surrounded by the best coached senior filled squad in the ncaa instead of Creighton and because of that we actually know who he is.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Whoever takes Reddick in the top 5 - will be fired, and deservedly so.

I hope Babcock doesn't even DREAM of taking Reddick ANYWHERE in the lottery.


----------



## osman

Rudy Gay with 22pts on 10-19shooting 3reb 3ast 3stls. We could've used his defense against Igoudala tonight...............


----------



## butr

AirBonner said:


> He averages 6+ fta per game because he is option #1 on his team and anyone with a decent shot who shoots as much as he does in college will get 6+ fta per game. I didn't say he only shoots 3s but that he has the exact same skills as Korver which you did not dispute. What are these mystery abilities that he has that will make him so much better than Korver ... His handle is average in college, his speed and athleticism are average at best, his basketball IQ is good but so is Korver's. He plays at Duke surrounded by the best coached senior filled squad in the ncaa instead of Creighton and because of that we actually know who he is.


He gets to the hoop an awful lot beating supposedly bigger and quicker athletes.

My question is, if everyone knows the ball is going to JJ, and JJ shoots the 3, hits floaters and runners and goes to the hoop on the most hyped team in the nation, why can't anyone stop him? Surely every team has a guy that is long and can overmatch his average handle and athletic ability.

But it just rarely seems to happen. Could it be that he is better than he is given credit because he is white and 6-4? Nah.


----------



## hoops

blowuptheraptors said:


> He gets to the hoop an awful lot beating supposedly bigger and quicker athletes.
> 
> My question is, if everyone knows the ball is going to JJ, and JJ shoots the 3, hits floaters and runners and goes to the hoop on the most hyped team in the nation, why can't anyone stop him? Surely every team has a guy that is long and can overmatch his average handle and athletic ability.
> 
> But it just rarely seems to happen. Could it be that he is better than he is given credit because he is white and 6-4? Nah.


Great post! i was going to post earlier, but i couldn't have said it any better myself


----------



## billfindlay10

AirBonner said:


> He averages 6+ fta per game because he is option #1 on his team and anyone with a decent shot who shoots as much as he does in college will get 6+ fta per game. I didn't say he only shoots 3s but that he has the exact same skills as Korver which you did not dispute. What are these mystery abilities that he has that will make him so much better than Korver ... His handle is average in college, his speed and athleticism are average at best, his basketball IQ is good but so is Korver's. He plays at Duke surrounded by the best coached senior filled squad in the ncaa instead of Creighton and because of that we actually know who he is.


Last time I checked Duke starts 2 freshman....and is loaded with underclassmen! That would seem like there is even more pressure placed on JJ to preform and carry the load of his team. I think JJ will be a solid pro...not a top 5 pick...but between 10 and 20.


----------



## shookem

Adam Mo scored 27 and had 7 rebounds...looking good, stache!


----------



## AirBonner

blowuptheraptors said:


> He gets to the hoop an awful lot beating supposedly bigger and quicker athletes.
> 
> My question is, if everyone knows the ball is going to JJ, and JJ shoots the 3, hits floaters and runners and goes to the hoop on the most hyped team in the nation, why can't anyone stop him? Surely every team has a guy that is long and can overmatch his average handle and athletic ability.
> 
> But it just rarely seems to happen. Could it be that he is better than he is given credit because he is white and 6-4? Nah.



Ummm, Kyle Korver does the same things and he does it in the nba. Like Redick his strengths lie in his shots ... coming off screens or hitting fades or runners. And the reason that teams in the NCAA haven't stopped redick yet is because his supporting cast is completely dedicated to getting him looks and like I said they are one of the best coached teams in college basketball so they execute well on their game plan. I don't know why ppl are so adverse to the Korver comparison because he is a good player who in hindsight would likely have been picked in the mid/late 1st rnd


----------



## shookem

AirBonner said:


> Ummm, Kyle Korver does the same things and he does it in the nba. Like Redick his strengths lie in his shots ... coming off screens or hitting fades or runners. And the reason that teams in the NCAA haven't stopped redick yet is because his supporting cast is completely dedicated to getting him looks and like I said they are one of the best coached teams in college basketball so they execute well on their game plan. I don't know why ppl are so adverse to the Korver comparison because he is a good player who in hindsight would likely have been picked in the mid/late 1st rnd



a comparison to Korver is a good thing for Reddick. he'd be lucky to achieve that kind of status in the NBA. No diss to JJ, but Korver is a great player.


----------



## shookem

This is for anyone, but specifically for MB, the least knowledgable basketball fan out there.


here is your introduction to Adam Morrison.

Meet Adam 

Some stats and stuff 









He's not the answer to all of our problems, just a guy I'd like to see on the team.


----------



## tbp82

I hate to say this but the raptors are currently in a free fall that could result in you guys picking to high to get Morrison. (Hate to say you are in a free fall) If the current trend continues and the lottery balls fall in place you guys could end up #1 or #2 leaving you the choice between Aldridge and Gay. The longer the college season goes on the draft is beginning to shape up. Aldridge has clearly established himself as the lone stud of the draft. Even in the last two games which Texas lost terribly he has look like a legitimate prospect even defending the pick and roll and guarding smaller quicker guards against Tennessee. The season has a long way to go but as of right now Aldridge is the number 1 pick in this draft. Gay is number 2 simply because he is the second best player behind Aldridge he is athletic can create his own shot and has franchise potential. 3-10 is kinda trickey. So if I had to go on a limb.

1) Aldridge-for obvious reasons. ONLY legitimate stud in this year's draft.
2) Gay-Athletic. Franchise potential.
3) Barginini-7-0 supposedly Dirk like did I mention sevon foot.
4) Ronnie Brewer-Scouts tend to love the combo guards like this guy. Big Athletic can create his own shot.
5) Rajon Rondo-Point Guard playing well for Kentucky. looking like best point guard in the draft.
6) Adam Morrison-Having a monster year pure scorer. Could go higher if he shows up in draft workouts.
7)Tiagro Spilter-Should probably be higher on this list at least ahead of Morrison and maybe Rondo but the fact that he may have trouble getting into the draft drops him.
8) Josh Mcroberts-Guy is going to be a stud if he stays in school but his draft stock will be pretty high this year.
9)Al Hortford-only a sophmore can block shots. Undersized can he be the next Brand.
10). Sheldon Williams-Is here because of the plummeting of the stock of Daniel Gibson. Another undersized big man but is a senior who at least could bring leadership.

just missed-Josh Boone, Darius Washington, Brandon Rush, Daniel Gibson. Shawne Williams.

Have to mention everyones favorite J.J. Redick-just outside of lottery.


----------



## shookem

/\/\/\
yeah, I hear what you're saying and untill the tourny and draft workouts, I find it's just better to look at the top players, positioning can change so much over the next six months.


----------



## MonsterBosh

tbp82 said:


> I hate to say this but the raptors are currently in a free fall that could result in you guys picking to high to get Morrison.


Thanks for all that BNI (Brand New Information) as shookem is urging me to provide on the Raptor forum. I am not up on all the draft prospects and I have suggested that the Raptors should build around international players who may not mind living and playing for Toronto.

If you are familiar with the Raptor's free fall situation, which of the top draft picks do you think could catch the free falling Raptors ... which rookie could have that instant impact ... like another Wade ??


----------



## icehawk

LaMarcus could play the 5 for us if he adds a bit more weight. However, having our 3 best players be natural PFs could be troublesome. I don't know how much longer we can NOT start Charlie.

Gay is really hyped up, but I don't think we need another combo forward. At the 4 we have Bosh, Villanueva, and Bonner (with Sow and Slokar possibly), and at the 3 we have Peterson, Graham, Rose and Eric Williams. What we need is a guard or a center, not another forward.

If we fall out of the top 3, a guy I would love to see us get is Ronnie Brewer. A taller, poor-man's Wade? We need some serious help at the guard position.. athletic, plays good D, and can play the point. Mike James is gone after next year and Roko isn't coming til the season after. Calderon is really all we have at the 1. We have a few guys who can play the 2 like Peterson, Graham, and Rose, but they all fit better at the small forward position. Rose won't even be playing too much. People always diss Brewer's shot, but it's working for him this season. He even has 3-point range.

Maybe with Denver's pick we can pick up a good back-up PG. Some senior who could step up right away like Darius Washington. Rajon Rondo would be excellent but I'm sure he'll be gone by then. Rudy Fernandez wouldn't be too bad either, and I'm sure a Spanish backcourt of Calderon and Fernandez would be a fan favourite. He won't complain about being in Canada either!

As for the 2nd round, I wouldn't mind picking up Paul Davis. He's having a great year and doesn't look that soft anymore. We really don't have much at center.

Aldridge/Brewer, Fernandez, and Davis would definately fill our needs at guard and center. We can also sign another guard or back-up center with our MLE.


----------



## shookem

good job icehawk, I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

The biggest thing I have against Brewer is his horrible shooting stroke, I have never seen a ball leave his hands looking like it will go in.

Paul Davis would be great in the second and another top-notch guard is needed badly.

really any of these draft days would be fine with me right now:

Morrison/Alridge/Gay, Reddick/ Fernandaz/ Rondo, Davis/Provic/ Killingsworth.

Of course I still think at least one pick will be traded.


----------



## The Mad Viking

The_Notic said:


> I am a huge Louisville fan, but i wouldn't do it with the Denver Pick, Heres my prediction:
> 
> Best Case Scenario: Slightly Poor Man's Ben Gordan
> Most Likely Scenario: Mike James meets Derick Fisher
> Worst Case Scenario : David Wesley (Now)
> 
> Thats my 2 cents. Flame Away!


Personally, I think the Worst Case Scenario is somewhere south of Keyon Dooling. As much as you may not like David Wesley, he has played in several hundred NBA games. Probably more than Dean ever plays in.


----------



## The Mad Viking

Ronnie Brewer's obvious comp is fellow Razorback Joe Johnson. JJ has a better stroke, but they are very similar in many ways.

However, I don't think Brewer goes 1,2 or 3, and he is certainly not around at 17 or so.

Since we need rebounding and a point guard, we need to take Rajon Rondo, a PG who averages 10 rebounds a game. 

:rofl:


----------



## speedythief

If we land the top pick, and Aldridge is far and away the top prospect, and we think he is better suited for the four spot, we will have the ability to trade him. There are plenty of teams that need a blue chip big man.

That might be a way for us to get the centre or wing scorer we need.


----------



## shookem

speedythief said:


> If we land the top pick, and Aldridge is far and away the top prospect, and we think he is better suited for the four spot, we will have the ability to trade him. There are plenty of teams that need a blue chip big man.
> 
> That might be a way for us to get the centre or wing scorer we need.


If that's the case, I'd rather trade down a few spots, still get a great prospect and some added value.

I'd be afraid that because we've taken many a young PF, GM's may think that we'd 'have to' unload one of our PF prospects, Alridge, Bosh or Villy and the team wouldn't end up getting max value out of the selection. Or none of this could happen, you know...


----------



## tbp82

Yeah I forget about you guys ability to trade your pick. There are at least 4 other teams beside yourself who could be have two picks. Chicago, Atlanta, New Jersey, and Portland. Based on what I have seen this year I really do feel Aldridge is playing like the clear cut #1 choice. Atlanta, Chicago, New Jersey, and Portland. I could see a scenario where you guys grab #1 trade it to Atlanta for say #3 and #7 and get maybe Brewer and Shawne Williams plus your own say 17-19 could net a solid player like Tajuan Dean. But I still say if you get #1 you take Larmarcus just because he would probably come in as the second if not the best player on your team (remeber he put up at least 20 and 10 both times against Bosh as a sophmore in high school.)


----------



## speedythief

^ Trading Bosh and keeping Aldridge is a possibility as well, in this scenario.


----------



## Crossword

speedythief said:


> ^ Trading Bosh and keeping Aldridge is a possibility as well, in this scenario.


 *cough*cough*Brand for Chandler*cough*


----------



## tbp82

cough* Chandler played* cough in high *cough school* Larmarcus has college *ugh* experiance* Aldridge cough* also ugh* played well against Bosh* and is bigger *cough*. 


Still I wouldn't let Bosh go to keep Aldridge I would play LA at the 5.


----------



## Crossword

All I meant with that was that we'd be giving up on a sure thing for a variable... we just don't know how LA's going to turn out in the pro's. If we get Aldridge, I'd play him at the 5 like you said, wouldn't trade Bosh to make room for him.


----------



## tbp82

In reality there are very few players you would even think about trading Bosh for. He is so underatted it is pathetic. The general consensus among most NBA analyst is that the three best players in the league are Duncan, Garnett, and Shaq. Charles Barkely even goes as far to say the those three are the only great players in the league. (I agree they are the three best) But when comparing Bosh's numbers to Duncan and Garnett he is right in there. If Bosh had more team wins the Carmelo, Lebron, and Wade who's better argument would be mute because Bosh would be far and away better regarded by the media. Back to the point regardless of how good Morrison, Aldrige, Gay, and Bargini could be Bosh is the guy you are building around. But like when Duncan came to San Antonio if Aldridge or Gay could show they were better then I could see Bosh becoming one B but the player would have to be d**n good.


----------



## foul_balls

speedythief said:


> If we land the top pick, and Aldridge is far and away the top prospect, and we think he is better suited for the four spot, we will have the ability to trade him. There are plenty of teams that need a blue chip big man.
> That might be a way for us to get the centre or wing scorer we need.


Chicago would probably love to get LaMarcus Aldridge, who fills a need for a low-post scoring threat and can play 4/5. If Toronto ends up with the 1st pick, and trades with Chicago to get picks 5 and 17, who would you take?
5:
17:
18:
31:

My personal picks: 
5: Whoever falls, Gay, Morrison, Redick, or Brewer 
17: Shawne Williams (gotta love a 6'9" SF with supposed PG handles?)
18: Taquan Dean (career 3pt% better than Redick's apparently, and can play the point)
31: Paul Davis


----------



## AirBonner

foul_balls said:


> Chicago would probably love to get LaMarcus Aldridge, who fills a need for a low-post scoring threat and can play 4/5. If Toronto ends up with the 1st pick, and trades with Chicago to get picks 5 and 17, who would you take?
> 5:
> 17:
> 18:
> 31:
> 
> My personal picks:
> 5: Whoever falls, Gay, Morrison, Redick, or Brewer
> 17: Shawne Williams (gotta love a 6'9" SF with supposed PG handles?)
> 18: Taquan Dean (career 3pt% better than Redick's apparently, and can play the point)
> 31: Paul Davis


I wouldn't make that trade. The raptors have too many decent young players as it is. They need another great young player.


----------



## The Mad Viking

AirBonner said:


> I wouldn't make that trade. The raptors have too many decent young players as it is. They need another great young player.


I agree completely with this post. Heck, we have Slokar and Ukic waiting in the wings.

Package up some parts and get one bonafide great back. You can only play 5 guys at once. It's far easier to pick up bench depth than great starters. 

Trade MoPete, Matt Bonner and both your first round picks to get a mid lottery pick and a great young player in return. Preferably a PG or a C. And pick up a wing with the mid-lottery pick. That's what seems to be available in quantity this year.

If not, I really am not adverse to keeping Aldridge, and playing with 2 of the 3 young studs on the court all the time. That might be Bosh, 36 mpg, CV, 32mpg as a soph and LA 28 mpg as a rook. 

When the opposing SF was a bigger guy that CV could match up with, the Raps could throw a "true" centre out there , or could play all three at once.


----------



## butr

Naw we keep the pick. BPA regardless of position this year pls. Chicago may try to trade out of one or both picks because they have caproom to use. 

PHX did this with the pick that ended up being Luol Deng the year they went after Nash.

I don't see a match but that NYK pick might be in play.


----------



## Ballyhoo

tbp82 said:


> But when comparing Bosh's numbers to Duncan and Garnett he is right in there.


The difference is Duncan and Garnett are 1st team all-NBA defenders, and Bosh is an average defender at best. The Raptors need defensive players badly. This is why even though Morrison is intriguing, we can't afford another below average defender.


----------



## shookem

Ballyhoo said:


> The difference is Duncan and Garnett are 1st team all-NBA defenders, and Bosh is an average defender at best. The Raptors need defensive players badly. This is why even though Morrison is intriguing, we can't afford another below average defender.


true, but the exception of Gay (whom I think is a decent defender) I'm not sure if Alridge, Bargnani or Rondo are any better (at D) then Morrison.

Actually, outside of Sheldon Williams I don't see a stand out defender in the top ten (in the way too early months before the draft).


----------



## CrookedJ

shookem said:


> true, but the exception of Gay (whom I think is a decent defender) I'm not sure if Alridge, Bargnani or Rondo are any better (at D) then Morrison.
> 
> Actually, outside of Sheldon Williams I don't see a stand out defender in the top ten (in the way too early months before the draft).


Actually Rondo is hyped as a being a great defender, and a stopper at the point. His jump shot though is . . .hmm whats the opposite of great? Alridge, Bargnani Ive never seen play so I don't know.


----------



## MonsterBosh

Which of these draft pick rookies has the athleticism and smarts to make them an Impact Player ... that's all I want to know .... !!!


----------



## shookem

CrookedJ said:


> Actually Rondo is hyped as a being a great defender, and a stopper at the point. His jump shot though is . . .hmm whats the opposite of great?


That's what I had heard, but at this point it seems more like a possibility then reality. I saw him play on the weekend and his D didn't stand out to me. Mind you I've only seen him play twice? maybe three times this season, so it may have been an off game. All in all I don't really think Rondo is a top five pick at this point.


----------



## butr

MonsterBosh said:


> Which of these draft pick rookies has the athleticism and smarts to make them an Impact Player ... that's all I want to know .... !!!


Define "impact".


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> That's what I had heard, but at this point it seems more like a possibility then reality. I saw him play on the weekend and his D didn't stand out to me. Mind you I've only seen him play twice? maybe three times this season, so it may have been an off game. All in all I don't really think Rondo is a top five pick at this point.


I don't know how he get those rebounding numbers, he is not strong or overly tall. Must have great instincts.


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> I don't know how he get those rebounding numbers, he is not strong or overly tall. Must have great instincts.


I know, the only thing that I've seen that can explain those numbers is his leaping ability and huge, long arms.


----------



## MonsterBosh

blowuptheraptors said:


> Define "impact".


Kobe, Carter, Wade, AI, Nash ... you get the drift ....

Meticulously searching the stats in the hopes of finding a winner is like reading the sheets to find the winning horse ....


----------



## SkywalkerAC

MonsterBosh said:


> Kobe, Carter, Wade, AI, Nash ... you get the drift ....
> 
> Meticulously searching the stats in the hopes of finding a winner is like reading the sheets to find the winning horse ....


Those are superstars, not simply impact players IMO.


----------



## MonsterBosh

SkywalkerAC said:


> Those are superstars, not simply impact players IMO.


Okay ... so how would you define "impact player" .... and I don't mean somebody who occasionally has a tremendous game .... I mean somebody who consistently has an impact on each and every game ... and has the capability to turn the game around based on his effort virtually alone.


----------



## shookem

Here's an article on Adam Morrison's last game:
Zag Bulldogs keep winning 

And here's one on Duke (Williams and Redick)
Duke!


----------



## madman

if he would fall into the 2nd round would you be happy with denham brown?


----------



## shookem

madman said:


> if he would fall into the 2nd round would you be happy with denham brown?


It makes more sense then Juan Mendez did. I dunno from what I remember he is really streaky, but in the second round, maybe. I'll be watching to see what he looks like in the tourny.


----------



## madman

shookem said:


> It makes more sense then Juan Mendez did. I dunno from what I remember he is really streaky, but in the second round, maybe. I'll be watching to see what he looks like in the tourny.


 he seems to be getting alot of praise with critics, 

there are a bunch of canadians who will probably will be in the tourny so that should be fun


----------



## butr

MonsterBosh said:


> Kobe, Carter, Wade, AI, Nash ... you get the drift ....
> 
> Meticulously searching the stats in the hopes of finding a winner is like reading the sheets to find the winning horse ....


I noticed that you did not post a single player known for his rebounding or defence. Is that a mistake or on purpose. Given how **** our rebounding and defense is, I would have thought you'd have listed some.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I really like Corey Brewer for this team.

Lockdown defender with great all around game combined with stellar athleticism. Will remind you a lot of an Andre Iguodala.


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

vigilante said:


> I really like Corey Brewer for this team.
> 
> Lockdown defender with great all around game combined with stellar athleticism. Will remind you a lot of an Andre Iguodala.


I'm a Florida fan who has made several posts about Corey on the draft board (there is one on there right now) in the past. I've had the pleasure of watching this kid since his junior year in high school all the way up to now in his sophomore season at Florida. I would venture to say he's already a better player than Mike Miller, who was an terrific player at small forward for the Gators while he was there and has been a success in the NBA. Corey doesn't yet have Mike's handle or shot, but he's better in every other facet of the game (i.e. rebounding, defense, passing ability, slashing, etc.), and ball handling and shooting can be improved with practice.

I absolutely love the kid. So far, his season stats are 15 PPG, 7 RPG, 5 APG, and 2.5 SPG. Not only that, but he's already one of the premiere lockdown defenders in the country, especially on the perimeter. This kid is going to be a fantasy players dream once he enters the NBA, because he stuffs the stat sheet big time. He hits 3's, he rebounds, he defends, he passes, he shoots a high percentage from the floor, and he scores. Considering all those things, he's also a great kid who doesn't think he's above people and treats his elders with respect. Whichever NBA team gets him whenever he becomes draft eligible will not only get a great player, but a great person as well.


----------



## butr

YoYoYoWasup said:


> I'm a Florida fan who has made several posts about Corey on the draft board (there is one on there right now) in the past. I've had the pleasure of watching this kid since his junior year in high school all the way up to now in his sophomore season at Florida. I would venture to say he's already a better player than Mike Miller, who was an terrific player at small forward for the Gators while he was there and has been a success in the NBA. Corey doesn't yet have Mike's handle or shot, but he's better in every other facet of the game (i.e. rebounding, defense, passing ability, slashing, etc.), and ball handling and shooting can be improved with practice.
> 
> I absolutely love the kid. So far, his season stats are 15 PPG, 7 RPG, 5 APG, and 2.5 SPG. Not only that, but he's already one of the premiere lockdown defenders in the country, especially on the perimeter. This kid is going to be a fantasy players dream once he enters the NBA, because he stuffs the stat sheet big time. He hits 3's, he rebounds, he defends, he passes, he shoots a high percentage from the floor, and he scores. Considering all those things, he's also a great kid who doesn't think he's above people and treats his elders with respect. Whichever NBA team gets him whenever he becomes draft eligible will not only get a great player, but a great person as well.



Doesn't he have some crazy shooting mechanics? Numbers look good this year. Rebounds down though.


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

blowuptheraptors said:


> Doesn't he have some crazy shooting mechanics?


Not really mechanics that need work, just his shot in general. He's a big time slasher who gets to the basket at will, and he dominated high school basketball in Tennessee, so he's never really had to work on his jumpshot. It's improved drastically since his freshman season, but it's a work in progress. Like I said though, by the time he comes out, he should be a complete player, and whoever gets him will be getting a potential all star... he's that good.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

The more I hear, the more I want him.

How great would it be to have two defensive beasts like Graham and Brewer on the wings?

Problem is, I see him going 5-8.. and our picks should be 1-3, and 15-20.


----------



## speedythief

^ I think we've seen that Rob will take the player he wants regardless.


----------



## kirk_2003

speedythief said:


> ^ I think we've seen that Rob will take the player he wants regardless.


Adam Morrison... :dead:


----------



## The Mad Viking

vigilante said:


> The more I hear, the more I want him.
> 
> How great would it be to have two defensive beasts like Graham and Brewer on the wings?
> 
> Problem is, I see him going 5-8.. and our picks should be 1-3, and 15-20.


Huh?

Corey Brewer is probably not coming out until 2007. If he comes out this year, he will be available with our 2nd pick in the first round.

nbadraft has him projected at #27 in 2007; draftexpress has him at #11 in 2007. 

It is extremely unlikely he goes in the top 10 of 2006.


----------



## butr

The Mad Viking said:


> Huh?
> 
> Corey Brewer is probably not coming out until 2007. If he comes out this year, he will be available with our 2nd pick in the first round.
> 
> nbadraft has him projected at #27 in 2007; draftexpress has him at #11 in 2007.
> 
> It is extremely unlikely he goes in the top 10 of 2006.


RONNIE Brewer, Arkansas. 6th on nbadraft.net and express in 2006. Vigilante made the first mistake, then the kid from FLA came in with his take on Corey, when Vig wants Ronnie. 

Even I thought he was talking about Ronnie until he said Florida.


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> RONNIE Brewer, Arkansas. 6th on nbadraft.net and express in 2006.


lol, yeah there's a big differance between Ronnie and Corey Brewer, lol.

Big game today BUTR, your #1 Duke boys against a always dangerous St. John's, 6:00 PM.

I predict that JJ goes off for at least 30.


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> lol, yeah there's a big differance between Ronnie and Corey Brewer, lol.
> 
> Big game today BUTR, your #1 Duke boys against a always dangerous St. John's, 6:00 PM.
> 
> I predict that JJ goes off for at least 30.


Shelden has 3 or 4 blks at the half. JJ is a little cold, but has 13.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

shookem said:


> lol, yeah there's a big differance between Ronnie and Corey Brewer, lol.
> 
> Big game today BUTR, your #1 Duke boys against a always dangerous St. John's, 6:00 PM.
> 
> I predict that JJ goes off for at least 30.


Actually there's not much difference between the two. If you watch the games other then the draft boards you would notice that Corey has been one hell of a player.

IMO, Corey has been superior to Ronnie, as a key member of a team that will contend for the national title - I am considering ranking Florida #1 in my next poll.

As for the always dangerous Johnnies - we are in the 2000's now right?


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Although Ronnie Brewer is looking damn good tonight against Texas Tech.


----------



## butr

Shelden had 11 10 and 7. JJ was cold, only 18 on a crappy %.


----------



## shookem

JuniorNoboa said:


> Actually there's not much difference between the two. If you watch the games other then the draft boards you would notice that Corey has been one hell of a player.
> 
> IMO, Corey has been superior to Ronnie, as a key member of a team that will contend for the national title - I am considering ranking Florida #1 in my next poll.
> 
> As for the always dangerous Johnnies - we are in the 2000's now right?



yeah, I was just trying to get some people talking college ball. St. John's have been down on there luck, still they were playing the #1 team in the nation, so how dangerous could anyone really be?

Re: Ronnie and Corey
and yeah the #'s are pretty close, if you consider five points per game that separate them close. 
True though, Corey has been playing better, he still isn't anything too special and Florida is far from being #1. Ooooo, Wake Forest and Syracuse, other then that who have they beat?


----------



## Unknownone

blowuptheraptors said:


> I don't know how he get those rebounding numbers, he is not strong or overly tall. Must have great instincts.


That and good positional anticipation - he's a crafty sort of rebounder in that he sneaks into the key a lot of the time and snatches the ball away from the bigs in there, who aren't expecting a guard to be competing for the board...


----------



## Benis007

vigilante said:


> I really like Corey Brewer for this team.
> 
> Lockdown defender with great all around game combined with stellar athleticism. Will remind you a lot of an Andre Iguodala.


His jump shot is uglier than Josh Childress'.


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

Benis007 said:


> His jump shot is uglier than Josh Childress'.


He's a much better slasher than Childress could ever dream of being. Why shoot jumpers when you can get to the basket at will? He also gets a lot of putbacks because he is an exceptional offensive rebounder.

5 PPG may seperate Corey and Ronnie, but Corey is a better rebounder and passer, and is comparable as a defender, and he's only a sophomore.


----------



## Benis007

YoYoYoWasup said:


> He's a much better slasher than Childress could ever dream of being. Why shoot jumpers when you can get to the basket at will? He also gets a lot of putbacks because he is an exceptional offensive rebounder.
> 
> 5 PPG may seperate Corey and Ronnie, but Corey is a better rebounder and passer, and is comparable as a defender, and he's only a sophomore.



Ok so you agree that his jump shot sucks...


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> Ok so you agree that his jump shot sucks...


not exactly an attribute you'd want in a wingman, especially on this Raptors squad.


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

Benis007 said:


> Ok so you agree that his jump shot sucks...


Considering he's shooting 51% from the field, no, not really. I've watched him play since his days in high school, and while his jump shot is not great, it isn't near as ugly as Childress's. He's only a sophomore and it's going to get better. The difference between his jumper from his freshman season to now is day and night. He's going to be a very good draft prospect, whenever he comes out, along with his teammate Al Horford, whom scouts are salivating over.


----------



## Benis007

With the loss of Donyell this offseason the Raptors lost a lot of their 3 point shooting. No doubt that Brewer will make it. I would just prefer a "shooting" swingman to a "slashing" one.


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> With the loss of Donyell this offseason the Raptors lost a lot of their 3 point shooting. No doubt that Brewer will make it. I would just prefer a "shooting" swingman to a "slashing" one.



Adam Mo! Captain 'Stachie!

ahh, we'll see.


----------



## Benis007

I'll be really disappointed if he doesn't keep that porn stach once he gets to the NBA.


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> I'll be really disappointed if he doesn't keep that porn stach once he gets to the NBA.


Me too.










lol, Don't wipe too hard there Adam, that thing may come off.


----------



## foul_balls

Benis007 said:


> His jump shot is uglier than Josh Childress'.


IMO Doesn't matter ias long as it goes in... Childress shoots for a high percentage and Shawn Marion has an ugly shot, but still seems to find the twine.


----------



## frank_white

the two guys I like with our pick are aldridge and ronnie brewer. both are immensely talented, and fill team needs (we are stacked at the foward spots -- we need some guards and/or some solid defenders imo).

I wouldn't mind getting diaz, carney, or fernandez with the denver pick. and I'd do backflips if we got rondo at that spot.


----------



## NeoSamurai

in terms of potential 2nd round draftees, I'd really like to take a look at Kevin Pittsnogle of West Virginia...helped lead WVU to an Elite 8 appearance in the 05 tourney with wins over Texas Tech and Wake...

his game is really skilled and is similar to that of a Brad Miller or Raef Lafrenz....i'd think he'd be a good pickup with the first 2nd rounder, although i can see him play himself into the first round with his type of inside/outside game...

tonight, he helped lead WVU with a win over #7 Oklahoma (92-68) with 25 pts, shooting 8-10 from the field, 3-4 behind the arc...


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Pittsnogle is basically a poor Matt Bonner. Bonner proved at the college level that he was a better rebounder and defender.


----------



## changv10

Draftexpress is indicating that Tiago Splitter's stock is going down. I'm thinking his play is really impacted by Calderon leaving Tau. Splitter looked great receiving Calderon's passes and the offense Tiago got from this complemented his good defensive abiliity. If Splitter's stock keeps on dropping ... hopefully we can snatch him with Denver's pick. We join Calderon and Splitter and we get the Splitter projected to be a top 10 pick.


----------



## NeoSamurai

JuniorNoboa said:


> Pittsnogle is basically a poor Matt Bonner. Bonner proved at the college level that he was a better rebounder and defender.


i dunno about that, if anything, i think Pittsnogle is a better Matt Bonner....thing with Bonner is that he played for Florida in the SEC, the most overrated conference in college basketball...Florida has always been overrated when being seeded in March. For example, in '03 - seeded #2 in the East division and ousted in the 2nd round by Michigan St., in '02 they were ousted in the first round as a 5th seed by Creighton....basically Bonner played in a weak conference and so his stats are imo inflated....plus, in the tournament, Bonner didnt do anything for Florida to help lead them past the round of 32....

compare this to Pittsnogle who plays in the toughest conference in the Big East against teams like UConn, Villanova, Louisville, Pitt, and Cuse just to name a few...the level of competition that Pittsnogle has faced in his 3 years starting at WVU is high calibre compared to that of Bonner and yet Pittsnogle has better numbers overall in terms of points and rebounds....as well, last season, he helped lead his team to the Elite 8 with wins over Wake and Texas Tech...

their games are similar, but I think Pittsnogle is a better version of a Matt Bonner (i personally liken his game to a Raef Lafrenz: great exterior shooter, who is a real finesse player with average rebounding and blocking skills - essentially plays smaller than he should) thats played against tougher competition, has a bigger and better resume that Bonner did coming outta college and is worth a 2nd rounder....although I do believe he can be 1 of those players that will play his way in March to a mid to late 1st round pick....


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Please, the SEC is not a weak conference. That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. From 2000 to 2003 it was ranked second, second, first, first in conference RPI - was the SEC overrated... I can buy that - but to there is a lack of logic in equating overrated with weak... maybe they were only third or fourth in some of those years, but that still makes them an extremely strong conference. The differnece between the best conference and the fourth best conference is not very significant anyway in any given year. 

In Pittsnogle's years the Big East has been sixth, fourth, third and second. - underrated... yes . However, the Big East is not the best (and I love the Big East). The ACC has proven to be the best conference over the last five years.

I would reckon, and be right, in saying that Bonner has either faced as good or better competion then Pitts nogle. Argue it all you want, but you are wrong and I am right. Simple as that.

To make wide ranging assessments on players based on a few games in a one and done format is flawed. A 5 losing to a 12 is not unusual. If the SEC is so weak, why did a team with a 5 seed (who just happens to be Florida) make it to the title game when Bonner was a freshmen. (not that Bonner was responsible for that trip, but it certainly squashes your SEC is weak statement)



Why not look at all the games that were played. Why has Pitts been in Beilein's doghouse for the majority of his sophomore and junior seasons. He did have a good march. but nowhere near the level of all Big-East... Bonner was all SEC.

Pittsnogle has better rebounding numbers??? I do not have the stats in front of me, and I am not going to reseach it, because I know the answer... and it is not as you claim. Pittsnogle had 3.7 rebounds a game last year, in over 20 minutes per game of floor time. That is not good,

And Mike Gansey lead WVU to victories last year in the tournament. NOW GANSEY, THAT IS A BASKETBALL PLAYER I WANT WITH A LATE FIRST PICK OR SECOND ROUNDER. Gansey actually knows how to play basketball and bangs inside more then Pittsnogle despite being six inches shorter.

Did you ever see Raef play in the NCAA? Raef was a beast - good rebounder, very good athleticism. Pittsnogle is nowhere near the rebounder, shot blocker, or athlete that Raef was.... then again that's why Lafrentz was a top 5 pick... I will acknowledge that Lafrentz has been a bit of a dud, but there "starting" points and talent levels entering the NBA are not comparable.


----------



## shookem

2nd round: Deham Brown or Marco Killingstworth or Pervovic, possibly Ray or Gansey.


----------



## NeoSamurai

hehe, good debate 



JuniorNoboa said:


> Please, the SEC is not a weak conference. That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. From 2000 to 2003 it was ranked second, second, first, first in conference RPI - was the SEC overrated... I can buy that - but to there is a lack of logic in equating overrated with weak... maybe they were only third or fourth in some of those years, but that still makes them an extremely strong conference. The differnece between the best conference and the fourth best conference is not very significant anyway in any given year.
> 
> 
> 
> ok, i'll give you that, the SEC isnt necessarily a 'weak' conference...however, i will say it again, the level of competition that a guy playing in the Big East is much tougher than that of the SEC because of the depth of the Big East conference in terms of teams that can play tough basketball
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Pittsnogle's years the Big East has been sixth, fourth, third and second. - underrated... yes . However, the Big East is not the best (and I love the Big East). The ACC has proven to be the best conference over the last five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> debateable, but i agree...ACC and Big East are the best conferences in basketball with the ACC slightly edging them out imo...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would reckon, and be right, in saying that Bonner has either faced as good or better competion then Pitts nogle. Argue it all you want, but you are wrong and I am right. Simple as that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> alright, but again, Bonner was a major player for that Florida squad, yet when the games counted (whether it be the SEC or NCAA tournaments), he didnt help lead Florida to any major accomplishments (they won regular season titles, but not tourneys - Kentucky usually took those during Bonner's years, havent looked it up but Im pretty sure)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To make wide ranging assessments on players based on a few games in a one and done format is flawed. A 5 losing to a 12 is not unusual. If the SEC is so weak, why did a team with a 5 seed (who just happens to be Florida) make it to the title game when Bonner was a freshmen. (not that Bonner was responsible for that trip, but it certainly squashes your SEC is weak statement)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> true, the 5-12 games have historically been scenes for upsets and Florida in '99 were led by quality NBA guys like Haslem and Mike Miller...however with regards to the "one and done" comment, it isnt flawed to assess players on their performances in the March tourneys...if Wally Sczerbiak didnt have the great run he had with Miami (OH) in '99, no way he gets drafted 6th overall...if Bogut last year didnt lead his team to the Sweet 16, maybe hes not taken 1st overall. By both players leading their small program teams so far in the tournament, it shows how good a player and a leader that they are....those games in March are the most important games of all so a player's performance during those games should definitely be scrutinized and be heavily taken into consideration....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not look at all the games that were played. Why has Pitts been in Beilein's doghouse for the majority of his sophomore and junior seasons. He did have a good march. but nowhere near the level of all Big-East... Bonner was all SEC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not sure if Pitts had been in the doghouse earlier in his college career or not, however he is a major player on the team now and thats all that matters.... he'll be a major player in whether or not WVU makes the March tourney....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pittsnogle has better rebounding numbers??? I do not have the stats in front of me, and I am not going to reseach it, because I know the answer... and it is not as you claim. Pittsnogle had 3.7 rebounds a game last year, in over 20 minutes per game of floor time. That is not good,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> didnt say anything about Pitts having better rebounding skills...i called him an average one at that...this year he's averaging about 6 per game, with 18.8 pts per...in Bonner's senior year, he averaged 15/6....and he made all SEC...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Mike Gansey lead WVU to victories last year in the tournament. NOW GANSEY, THAT IS A BASKETBALL PLAYER I WANT WITH A LATE FIRST PICK OR SECOND ROUNDER. Gansey actually knows how to play basketball and bangs inside more then Pittsnogle despite being six inches shorter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> true, Mike Gansey is a really good player as well, he had the big game against Wake in the double OT win while Pitts had the big game against Texas Tech in the round of 16...Gansey's a good talent, cant dispute that....only problem with him is that he is listed as 6'4 and when he plays against NBA SG's, he may have trouble dealing with them physically....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever see Raef play in the NCAA? Raef was a beast - good rebounder, very good athleticism. Pittsnogle is nowhere near the rebounder, shot blocker, or athlete that Raef was.... then again that's why Lafrentz was a top 5 pick... I will acknowledge that Lafrentz has been a bit of a dud, but there "starting" points and talent levels entering the NBA are not comparable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes I saw Raef play NCAA basketball and he was a monster at Kansas...what I was merely comparing is what Pittsnogle game is like and it is like that of Lafrentz's today in the NBA: good exterior shooting with a lack of physicality inside and shotblocking skills (Lafrentz has that, Pittsnogle not so much)
Click to expand...


----------



## shookem

Here's some more stuff on AMMO:

AMMO


----------



## bigbabyjesus

changv10 said:


> Draftexpress is indicating that Tiago Splitter's stock is going down. I'm thinking his play is really impacted by Calderon leaving Tau. Splitter looked great receiving Calderon's passes and the offense Tiago got from this complemented his good defensive abiliity. If Splitter's stock keeps on dropping ... hopefully we can snatch him with Denver's pick. We join Calderon and Splitter and we get the Splitter projected to be a top 10 pick.


It has to do with the fact that he isn't getting playing time, not with Jose leaving.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

shookem said:


> 2nd round: Deham Brown or Marco Killingstworth or Pervovic, possibly Ray or Gansey.


I'm liking James White. He's improved a lot since getting to Cinci. And he can fly of course.


----------



## icehawk

What do you guys think of picking up Shelden Williams if the Denver pick falls into the late lottery and we didn't already pick up Aldridge with our own pick?

Is he not the type of player we need right now in the paint? A big knock on him (no, not the forehead) is that he's only 6-9 but so is Big Ben. Lots of ppl are saying he can say center in the L. Think he'd be an Araujo upgrade?


----------



## shookem

icehawk said:


> What do you guys think of picking up Shelden Williams if the Denver pick falls into the late lottery and we didn't already pick up Aldridge with our own pick?
> 
> Is he not the type of player we need right now in the paint? A big knock on him (no, not the forehead) is that he's only 6-9 but so is Big Ben. Lots of ppl are saying he can say center in the L. Think he'd be an Araujo upgrade?


My little brother is an Araujo upgrade.

Depending on who we take with our first pick, I'd love to take Williams with our second. But I don't think we'll have all three of our draft picks come draft day.


----------



## butr

icehawk said:


> What do you guys think of picking up Shelden Williams if the Denver pick falls into the late lottery and we didn't already pick up Aldridge with our own pick?
> 
> Is he not the type of player we need right now in the paint? A big knock on him (no, not the forehead) is that he's only 6-9 but so is Big Ben. Lots of ppl are saying he can say center in the L. Think he'd be an Araujo upgrade?


Yes, but he won't last that long my friend.


----------



## speedythief

blowuptheraptors said:


> Yes, but he won't last that long my friend.


Shelden's forehead stretches well into the second round.



Yep, that's a lump of coal for me.


----------



## butr

speedythief said:


> Shelden's forehead stretches well into the second round.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that's a lump of coal for me.


Will you make fun of him when he averages a double-double for the Raps?

:biggrin:


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Anyone know if Camby's finger is broken or not? I'm suprised they haven't caught Minnesota yet with the T-wolves slumping. Will be very interesting to see if one of these two teams can end up with Artest. 

What can T-wolves really offer though? Their pick and...

The Nuggz have some point guards to play around with and Nene as a RFA I guess.

Whoops, wrong thread...

Morrison has another big game against athletic defenders.


----------



## Unknownone

foul_balls said:


> This name is flying below the radar.
> 
> Roy Hibbert, Georgetown C 7-2 270 Sophomore
> 
> 8-11 FG, 7 Rebounds 4 blocks (take it with a grain of salt, against Navy)
> 
> Someone compared him to a poor man's Mutombo, so I assume he has got some size and weight.


For FB - here's an article from the Washington Post on Hibbert:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/26/AR2005122600793.html?sub=AR

It requires registration so circumvent that by using login information from:

http://www.bugmenot.com

And another feature from the Washington Times:

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20051223-121236-7287r.htm

It seems that he's doing well against lesser competition, but save for the one contest against a suspect Ducks squad from the University of Oregon, has underperformed when going head-to-head w/ better teams... Time will tell and reveal more as the Hoyas move into Big East conference play from here on out, having just won the UTEP-hosted Sun Bowl Tournament in El Paso...


----------



## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> And Mike Gansey lead WVU to victories last year in the tournament. NOW GANSEY, THAT IS A BASKETBALL PLAYER I WANT WITH A LATE FIRST PICK OR SECOND ROUNDER. Gansey actually knows how to play basketball and bangs inside more then Pittsnogle despite being six inches shorter.


Gansey lacks great lateral speed, but definitely has a scorer's mentality as well as touch - he'd be a solid reserve off the bench and would be a dependable offensive threat... He's really elevated his profile since transferring from St. Bonaventure (having had a great high school career in Ohio)...


----------



## shookem

NBAdraft.net released their top ten by position list, here's the centers.

Prospect Comments
1.
*Sasha Kaun 6-11 250 C Kansas So. Tops a weak list. Siberian with excellent agility and an offensive game.*
2.
CJ Giles 6-10 235 PF/C Kansas So. Long fluid bigman with range out to 12-15 feet. Needs strength in bad way.
3.
Ante Tomic 7-2 230 C Croatia 1987 Needs time, but based on potential he's near the top.
4.
*Roy Hibbert 7-2 272 C Georgetown So. Pigeon toed and lacks great quickness, but has improved incredibly in past year.*
5.
*Paul Davis 6-10 260 PF/C Michigan St. Sr. A bit mechanical, but has strength, toughness and decent offensive skills.*
6.
Roman Gumenyuk 7-3 230 C Ukr. 1987 Raw! Has a great combination of size and touch, must keep developing his body.
7.
Shagari Alleyne 7-3 258 C Kentucky Jr. Incredibly long, but still becoming comfortable with speed of the game.
8.
David Padgett 6-11 250 C Louisville So. Bulked up but has lost considerable mobility.
9.
Kosta Perovic 7-2 242 C Serbia 1985 Back on track after an injury sidelined him for months. Slow but very skilled.
10.
Dimitri Sokolov 6-11 240 C Russia 1985 Athletic, strong and tough nosed Siberian bigman.

A couple there I'd like to get a look at. Maybe the second rounder?

Here a link for all the lists:
Top tens


----------



## Raptors15

im liking rudy fernandez with the denver pick, i dunno about what you guys think!


----------



## foul_balls

Unknownone,

Thanks for the articles. Good reads, especially the parts about the size, desire and shooting touch.

We should get a better idea of him when Conference play starts. Hopefully, he shows some skills.
After reading the articles though, it sounds like he might not come out in 05-06 since he really wants to improve and play, just as you thought. :sigh: 

Someone to keep on the radar for 06-07 then.


----------



## frank_white

As for our second rounder, what do you guys think of the two Villanova guards -- Ray and Foye? I could easily see either one coming off the bench and playing sg for us next season.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

forget about adding a C we will sign Maggs, get a high flying/explosixe scorer i.e Rudy or Morrison with our pick & add another big body to eithier Aa.Williams & possibly start at C i.e Sheldon Williams with the Denver pick.


----------



## Team Mao

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> forget about adding a C we will sign Maggs, get a high flying/explosixe scorer i.e Rudy or Morrison with our pick & add another big body to eithier Aa.Williams & possibly start at C i.e Sheldon Williams with the Denver pick.


This makes almost no sense. You contradict yourself in the same sentence. First you say forget about a centre because of the POSSIBILiTY of signing Magloire as a FA, then you finish by saying draft Shelden Williams to play C with the Denver pick. I'm still not sure what the word 'eithier' means. Basically if we draft Shelden Williams (we need more Williamses on the team), what would the point of Magloire be? Although I'm a big fan of Magloire, a drafting of Williams would make bringing in Mags kind of redundant. Williams is only about an inch or inch and a half shorter but younger, and much more athletic version of Mags who can do exactly what we need - rebound and block shots. If we get the scorer with the first pick (Gay, Brewer, Ammo) then we should have scoring covered with Bosh, Gay?, Villi, plus guys like Mo Pete and Graham adding 10ppg or so. But we need toughness, which Williams would give us, I heard someone joke and called Bosh and Villi the 'Thin Towers' the other day, which fits well for those guys.
Plus, from what I keep hearing about the guy, it sounds like Hibbert icould be flying up the draft charts this year and may end up a mid first round guy. Definitely someone to keep an eye out for.

Sorry to veer off there, could you please explain the contradiction in your post?


----------



## shookem

I just think some of those centers should be looked at as a early second round option. Untill Mags is in a Raptors uni, the center problem has not been solved.


----------



## ColinBeehler

i certainly dont agree with that. i don't even like the thought of having Mag's on our team anymore. He is a much older player then the rest of the core (what... like 28 or 29), and will be past his prime by the time we are ready to contend (for a ring, not for a playoff spot). I really don't even like his attitude. He whined about Nash getting to host the Fundraiser game in Toronto, however, Nash just came off an MVP season. He has been the cornerstone of our Canadian team for a decade (and how many times did Magloire play??). I dunno, he's a solid player but I'm sure there will be a better fit coming out of the next draft or two. The Canadian thing really doesn't cut it for me. Over and out.

-lata


----------



## Unknownone

ColinBeehler said:


> i certainly dont agree with that. i don't even like the thought of having Mag's on our team anymore. He is a much older player then the rest of the core (what... like 28 or 29), and will be past his prime by the time we are ready to contend (for a ring, not for a playoff spot). I really don't even like his attitude. He whined about Nash getting to host the Fundraiser game in Toronto, however, Nash just came off an MVP season. He has been the cornerstone of our Canadian team for a decade (and how many times did Magloire play??). I dunno, he's a solid player but I'm sure there will be a better fit coming out of the next draft or two. The Canadian thing really doesn't cut it for me. Over and out.
> 
> -lata


I don't clamor for Magloire to be on the Raptors @ all - if you've listened to his interviews, he's always expressing a desire to play for the national team and claims added interest since Rautins was appointed coach; for all of his rhetoric, he's really not acted upon these statements (not promises - b/c he doesn't want to corner himself); Jamal is playing for himself - not just first and foremost, but all the time...

Unlike Nash, I can't imagine Magloire embracing the same living conditions as the rest of the national team nor providing a stipend anonymously for his teammates via then head coach Jay Triano...

It's Jamal time - all the time, every time... And for those that bandy his All-Star stats, he still looks unfluid offensively - not much better than when Tubby Smith was his coach @ Kentucky, let alone his days @ Eastern Commerce... I'm w/ CB here - there are better veteran candidates to recruit...


----------



## ballocks

i don't usually do it like this but i've been watching denver's games like an addict this year. if we can score 10-12 from them and scout our brains off across europe, we can really improve our team with these picks in june. bosh's emergence has really given us some added flexibility- we don't need a cornerstone from this draft, we just need players who can play, and we can get them.

i think shelden's ranking at ~ 10 has me drooling at my computer. will he stay there? will his 6'9'' frame scare off league execs in the same way it's scaring off these online mocks? _drooling_. it's almost (it is) too good to be true. if we can get shelden and whoever else with our first pick, i almost couldn't imagine a better team than the one we'd be building for 07- and that's not even considering the cap room we'd have available to us.

*and* we'd be more than comfortable "winning games" next year, which would do wonders for our team emotionally. i mean, this is the most important draft season we've ever had. it's a weak crop, sure, but two lottos would be more than enough for what we need (don't want to get ahead of myself here).

peace


----------



## shookem

ballocks said:


> i think shelden's ranking at ~ 10 has me drooling at my computer. will he stay there? will his 6'9'' frame scare off league execs in the same way it's scaring off these online mocks? _drooling_. it's almost (it is) too good to be true. if we can get shelden and whoever else with our first pick, i almost couldn't imagine a better team than the one we'd be building for 07- and that's not even considering the cap room we'd have available to us.
> peace



The possibility of having Adam Morrison and Sheldon Williams on our team next year gives me a funny feeling in my stomach... what's the opposite of shame? pride? no, not that far, but definatly less shame.


----------



## AirBonner

I'd take Marco Killingsworth over Shelden Williams. Killingsworth has manhandled both Williams and Allenyi (not sure of spelling but he plays at kentucky and is pretty highly ranked). Killingsworth has great D and incredible post moves. I just wonder if he is big enough to be a true C.


----------



## shookem

I'll be hoping we can draft a five in the second round.

Kaun or Hibert come to mind.


----------



## Benis007

Novak took a dump on UConn yesterday night.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Brandon Rush with 24 and 12 against Kentucky today. He sounds to me like a lotto pick in this draft, though I haven't seen him play yet.

Who else impressed today? Will Morrison have an off night (ever)?


----------



## Team Mao

shookem said:


> I'll be hoping we can draft a five in the second round.
> 
> Kaun or Hibert come to mind.


What about a guy like Yemi Nicholson in the second? Haven't seem in play, but I've read good things and he's been putting up consistently good numbers this year.
Has anyone had a chance to watch one of his games?
I like your (wet) draft dream about Morrison and Shelden. I was high on the Gay bandwagon (sounds funny doesn't it?) early on. But the guy keeps shooting blanks against stiff competition. So maybe he's not all that he's cracked up to be.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

The thing that concerns me with Gay is that Calhoun always builds a system that makes a player a superstar at the college level.

George
Marshall
Allen
Hamilton
Gordon

UConn is the perfect place for a go to guy to flourish... and that is not happening with Gay.

Big time disappointment.


----------



## Unknownone

SkywalkerAC said:


> Brandon Rush with 24 and 12 against Kentucky today. He sounds to me like a lotto pick in this draft, though I haven't seen him play yet.
> 
> Who else impressed today? Will Morrison have an off night (ever)?


Saw Rush play tonight - athletic, quick, shot well and passed the ball w/ decent vision as well - I'd like to see more before casting a vote tho' - when I caught that very young and inexperienced Jayhawks team earlier in the year, Rush seemed lost @ times... Would like to see if he's able to deliver that sort of performance w/ consistency...

As for the Villanova guards, they could be free agent signings given that the Wildcats are functioning as a team versus individual stats so names such as Foye aren't being cited as heavily as some others - that said, Jay Wright's got 'em performing to a high degree and given the amount of backcourt experience on that squad, I look for 'em to fare well in the Big East and advance deep during the tournament come March...


----------



## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> The thing that concerns me with Gay is that Calhoun always builds a system that makes a player a superstar at the college level.
> 
> George
> Marshall
> Allen
> Hamilton
> Gordon
> 
> UConn is the perfect place for a go to guy to flourish... and that is not happening with Gay.
> 
> Big time disappointment.


Donny Marshall (in addition to Donyell) and Caron Butler as well in that group - Clifford Robinson amongst his earlier pupils...


----------



## martymar

JuniorNoboa said:


> The thing that concerns me with Gay is that Calhoun always builds a system that makes a player a superstar at the college level.
> 
> George
> Marshall
> Allen
> Hamilton
> Gordon
> 
> UConn is the perfect place for a go to guy to flourish... and that is not happening with Gay.
> 
> Big time disappointment.


i read an article everyone is having an off year even Josh Boone is struggling this year cuz the Point Guard doesn't know when to pass, we'll see if Gay steps up in the tourney


----------



## Unknownone

martymar said:


> i read an article everyone is having an off year even Josh Boone is struggling this year cuz the Point Guard doesn't know when to pass, we'll see if Gay steps up in the tourney


Marcus Williams is back from suspension, but is far from game shape/conditioning and looks to have strep throat currently - as he gets closer to the level of the rest of the team and resembles the PG from last year, we'll see if the Huskies are re-energized w/ the likes of Boone and Gay distancing themselves from the competition...


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Unknownone said:


> Donny Marshall (in addition to Donyell) and Caron Butler as well in that group - Clifford Robinson amongst his earlier pupils...


Forgot Butler... he can be added to the list, as well as Okafor. They were all-americans.

Donny and Cliff were never elite players in college.

While your on the board, unknownone, what is up with Jeff Green this year. Just noticed today he is averaging only 9pts on low 40% shooting. Disappointing indeed. He does have 3.5 assists per game, which is impressive for a forward.

With Hibbert stepping up, it looks like Green has taken a hit.


----------



## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> Forgot Butler... he can be added to the list, as well as Okafor. They were all-americans.
> 
> Donny and Cliff were never elite players in college.
> 
> While your on the board, unknownone, what is up with Jeff Green this year. Just noticed today he is averaging only 9pts on low 40% shooting. Disappointing indeed. He does have 3.5 assists per game, which is impressive for a forward.
> 
> With Hibbert stepping up, it looks like Green has taken a hit.


JN -

I think Green's production this year has taken a noticeable dropoff exactly b/c of what you've cited - Hibbert's marked improvement; Green played a lot inside last year and stepped out occasionally... It's been a reversal of roles this year w/ him trying to cultivate and hone his forward skills on the perimeter, partly b/c it'll be the position he'll have to contend w/ should he make the NBA... Bowman is still a ballhog @ times and along w/ Cook, the ball doesn't get spread around as much as it should - they're both holdovers from ousted and rightly maligned former coach Esherick's regime - the litmus test as to Green's ability and skills should be next year when Thompson Jr.'s system is fully in place and the players on the team are pretty much all of his recruits and/or started their college career under him...

Green could still grow to 6' 10"/11" which would spell more time in the key...


----------



## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> With Hibbert stepping up, it looks like Green has taken a hit.


JN -

Forgot to mention that you've seen a similar example of this w/ my alma mater - pre and post Iverson; Othello Harrington was lauded as the best big man pro prospect during his senior year in high school in Mississippi - his freshman year was decent, nothing to be ashamed of, but when Allen and backcourt mate Victor Page arrived @ 37th & O in NW DC, Harrington's maturation as a player took severe steps backwards... He really never recovered from it either...


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Morrison with 25 and 6 leading the Zags to another win.

Aldridge with 19 and 9.

Gay with 19 and 8.


----------



## Team Mao

Just looked at the latest Draftexpress mock which has us drafting Splitter at the 5th spot and Tyrus Thomas at the 14.
Ok, obviously the Thomas at 14 pick is not so good. But what do you guys think of the Splitter pick? Would you take a flyer on Tiago at the 5 or would you pick Williams or Brewer who would probably be available?
Noone knows the buyout issue yet, which causes some hesitation. But a top 5 pick contract plus $500,000 should be able to cover any buyout.
I'll admit I haven't seen a single game and all I've got to go on is a lot of stuff from Draftexpress. If anyone has seen his games, please let me know. I've seen Williams and Aldridge a few times play so I've got a decent idea of their games and how they would fit in with the raptors, but Splitter not so much.

Well, someone who I haven't thought for a while has just come back to mind. Let me know what you think.


----------



## no_free_baskets

JuniorNoboa said:


> Forgot Butler... he can be added to the list, as well as Okafor. They were all-americans.
> 
> Donny and Cliff were never elite players in college.
> 
> While your on the board, unknownone, what is up with Jeff Green this year. Just noticed today he is averaging only 9pts on low 40% shooting. Disappointing indeed. He does have 3.5 assists per game, which is impressive for a forward.
> 
> With Hibbert stepping up, it looks like Green has taken a hit.


 forget about donyell and those other guys u mentioned.....even freaking khalid-el amin could get his game off under calhoun...lol....that is not a promising sign.....i'll be really happy if we draft him and he turns out as 85 lakers says, as a prince with a better offensive game. im worried, however, that he'll turn into someone like a billy owens, a 3 that was supposed to have a great physical tools that was suppose to translate into league, but in the end, fizzled out in the L as a mediocre player....


----------



## no_free_baskets

Unknownone said:


> I don't clamor for Magloire to be on the Raptors @ all - if you've listened to his interviews, he's always expressing a desire to play for the national team and claims added interest since Rautins was appointed coach; for all of his rhetoric, he's really not acted upon these statements (not promises - b/c he doesn't want to corner himself); Jamal is playing for himself - not just first and foremost, but all the time...
> 
> Unlike Nash, I can't imagine Magloire embracing the same living conditions as the rest of the national team nor providing a stipend anonymously for his teammates via then head coach Jay Triano...
> 
> It's Jamal time - all the time, every time... And for those that bandy his All-Star stats, he still looks unfluid offensively - not much better than when Tubby Smith was his coach @ Kentucky, let alone his days @ Eastern Commerce... I'm w/ CB here - there are better veteran candidates to recruit...


of course jamal plays for himself? why shouldnt he? would you jeapordize potential millions of dollars getting injured for a national team that almost no one cares about? i wouldnt...

i do believe that he is very immature thou...that sillyness with nash over the charity game was nonsense...i mean show up to the damn game, its about the charity, not you....very petty.....

that being said, if he can give me rebounding, shot blocking, an interior def. presence, and allows bosh to move back to the 4, i will gladly take him...hes only 27,28, so contrary to what someone was saying, hes def. young enough to be part of the team when/if we become good....5 at that size and bulk, probably can play till 34-35, so imo, mags has about 7-8 good yrs left in him....

you say there are better options at 5...who are they in your opinion? i dont mean to say this in a facetious manner, im just curious..


----------



## spuriousjones

splitter has no buy-out clause in his contract. bute he'll be entering his last year. if tau wants to get anything financial out of him before he bolts to the nba, they'll deal. if not, he'll come the next year.


----------



## Rhubarb

Slow news day maybe, but some of the local media are reporting that Australia's next best prospect, Brad Newley (currently playing in the local national league) is ready to make the jump to the NBA. The relevance being Toronto's supposed interest in him, as highlighted.

DraftExpress already has a profile on him up, and most of it is pretty much on the spot, including where he'll likely be drafted (late 1st round, early 2nd round). I've seen him play a number of times already, and all bias aside, I really reckon he'd be a handy option in our backcourt. Drives to the basket like a demon, can hit the jumper, and has an improving defensive (though, is still not at the standard it should be). 



> Newley’s days numbered?
> Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 08:58 AM
> NBL, Townsville Bulletin
> 
> The Townsville Bulletin has reported that Croc young gun Brad Newley's days in the Philips Championship may be numbered according to two of the NBL’s most experienced coaches.
> 
> Sydney Kings coach Brian Goorjian and Townsville coach Ian Stacker are convinced Newley, 20, will be drafted into the National Basketball Association at season's end.
> 
> Newley attracted major interest from NBA club the Los Angeles Clippers last year after a stellar debut season in the Philips Championship. The clippers sent out a talent scout last season to watch him play in three matches.
> 
> Newley dominated the Philips Championship last season picking up Rookie of the Year and Best Sixth Man at the seasons end. He was also recently voted as the most likely NBL player to be drafted to the NBA by nine of the League’s 11 coaches in the mid-season coaches poll.
> 
> Goorjian, who will likely coach Newley at the Commonwealth Games in March, said the South Australian was being watched very closely.
> 
> "It would not surprise me if he was a first round draft pick because I think he is a guy that has NBA potential, not just to be on a roster," Goorjian told the Bulletin’s Anthony Stewart.
> 
> "He's got it all, it's just what he does with it and where he takes it."
> 
> While Newley is contracted to the Crocodiles until the end of the 2006/07 season, it is believed he is free to break the contract if he enters himself in the draft.
> 
> Stacker said that the Crocs had been contacted by numerous NBA franchises, including the Clippers, Houston, San Antonio, *Toronto* and Milwaukee, requesting vision of the 199cm shooting guard in action.
> 
> "My personal opinion is that he will be drafted," Stacker said. "The interest in him from NBA clubs has been significant in that they have requested DVDs of him playing and many already saw him play in the World Championships in Argentina where he was rated as one of the top two guards there."
> 
> And Stacker and Goorjian are convinced the advances Newley has made on his game and as a person will make him attractive pick up for any NBA club.
> 
> After a slow start to the season, which sometimes saw him struggle with the added scrutiny from media and fans, as well as the extra pressure applied by opposition on the playing court, Newley has shone in the past six rounds.
> 
> From being known as an almost exclusive scorer, Newley has shown he is a more than capable defender and provider for his team mates.
> 
> "He was treated differently by fans, other guards in the league, the media and even me as a coach had greater expectations on him," Stacker said of Newley's start to the season.
> 
> "Mentally, he is much stronger, he is always working on his skills as a player and he has grown as a person and as a player ... Newls has taken the right fork in the road every time, which always puts him on track."


----------



## butr

Newley is 6-6 about 195. Might be an interesting 2nd rounder.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I'm starting to like the depth of this draft alot more as the year goes on.

We could see some great young players in the Denver range pick - Rajon Rondo, Brandon Rush, Tyrus Thomas, Josh Boone..


----------



## JuniorNoboa

no_free_baskets said:


> forget about donyell and those other guys u mentioned.....even freaking khalid-el amin could get his game off under calhoun...lol....that is not a promising sign.....i'll be really happy if we draft him and he turns out as 85 lakers says, as a prince with a better offensive game. im worried, however, that he'll turn into someone like a billy owens, a 3 that was supposed to have a great physical tools that was suppose to translate into league, but in the end, fizzled out in the L as a mediocre player....


Billy Owens was a stud in college, you can't even compare Rudy Gay as a sophomre to the player that Owens was. Owens had great passing ability... Gay does not. Owens may not have become a perennial all- star, but would have been much better then a mediocore player... injuries destroyed him


Comparing Rudy Gay to Owens is absolutely insulting to the skills and numbers Owens had as a college player.


----------



## no_free_baskets

JuniorNoboa said:


> Billy Owens was a stud in college, you can't even compare Rudy Gay as a sophomre to the player that Owens was. Owens had great passing ability... Gay does not. Owens may not have become a perennial all- star, but would have been much better then a mediocore player... injuries destroyed him
> 
> 
> Comparing Rudy Gay to Owens is absolutely insulting to the skills and numbers Owens had as a college player.


who's comparing gay and owens college career or even playing style? obviously, owens had a much better college career then gay and certainly they had differing playing styles...i merely compare the two because of the possbility that both are/were majorly hyped up plyrs out of college with world class skill-set yet for some reason or other their talents didnt/wont match their productivity in the league. certainly owens' injuries played a part in his unrealized potential, and it might be a stretch to say that he would have become a mediocre plyr, sans injury, however i also feel that his questionable work-ethic (i.e showing up to camp overweight numerous times, no significant improvements in the weaknesses in his game i.e mid-range jump shot, ft% throughout his career) would have translated into owens not becoming the player he should have become, given his talents. up to this pt. i also envision gay not realizing his full potential (although, for other reasons, as given all accounts, gay has pretty good work ethic.) in the league given his talent...thats y i feel like a comparison btwn the two is valid.


----------



## butr

Shelden.

19, 10 and *10*. Triple-double v. 21 Maryland.

I have come to the conclusion that the number of blocks he gets is inversely related to the fear the other team has of going inside. Maryland went straight at him today in terms of penetration. The more teams fear him, the more they stay outside, the less blocks he gets.

Lesson: don't bother penetrating on the Landlord. Back him down, get good inside position, but penetrate? You see the results.

Magic Johnson in the stands was heaping praise on both JJ and Shelden.


----------



## Benis007

blowuptheraptors said:


> Shelden.
> 
> 19, 10 and *10*. Triple-double v. 21 Maryland.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that the number of blocks he gets is inversely related to the fear the other team has of going inside. Maryland went straight at him today in terms of penetration. The more teams fear him, the more they stay outside, the less blocks he gets.
> 
> Lesson: don't bother penetrating on the Landlord. Back him down, get good inside position, but penetrate? You see the results.
> 
> Magic Johnson in the stands was heaping praise on both JJ and Shelden.


First triple double EVER under Coach K


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Killingsworth had no problem going inside... Williams had 5 blocks...but was still owned inside that night.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> Killingsworth had no problem going inside... Williams had 5 blocks...but was still owned inside that night.


That was his man. A BIG, wide man. Unique. Most of his points were not on drives. When Shelden is waiting for another man's player to come in, look out.

And its OK to get "owned" once in a while. Name me a player at any level that has not been "owned".

Bottom line is Duke won.


----------



## shookem

Morrison had a great night on Tuesday.

34 pts, 6 rbs, 5 assists. Something like 6 TO though.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> That was his man. A BIG, wide man. Unique. Most of his points were not on drives. When Shelden is waiting for another man's player to come in, look out.
> 
> And its OK to get "owned" once in a while. Name me a player at any level that has not been "owned".
> 
> Bottom line is Duke won.


Fair enough... I re-read your post and it was about penetration not merely going inside.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Splitter goes 8 for 9 from the field with 8 boards in his last outing. I really wouldn't mind grabbing him with our first pick.


----------



## Rhubarb

Not jumping off Rudy, but is anyone else warming to a Aldridge-Wing player combo come June? (if the lottery allows it)


----------



## Team Mao

Rhubarb said:


> Not jumping off Rudy, but is anyone else warming to a Aldridge-Wing player combo come June? (if the lottery allows it)


I had a dream about it lastnight, it may have been wet, but I'm not willing to disclose those details. Bosh and Aldridge playing side by side with CV filling it up off the bench. :drool: 

I know I might get flamed for this but I really like JJ Reddick if he's available with our second pick. I watched a few games this year and he has developed more of a game. I mean how does someone explain all the trips to the line if he's a spot up shooter. Whenever Duke plays anyone, the defensive gameplan is to shut him down and he still puts up huge numbers against big competition. 

Defenses facing us would have the choice to double down low and give Reddick or Peterson the outside shot or stay honest on the perimeter and get beat by Bosh downlow. A shooter like Reddick will keep defences honest, even if they don't put up big numbers, they can create a lot of space for the team's big men.

Has anyone seen Brandon Rush this year? I know he's had a few big games and he's shooting 54% from 3 this year :eek8:


----------



## bigbabyjesus

SkywalkerAC said:


> Splitter goes 8 for 9 from the field with 8 boards in his last outing. I really wouldn't mind grabbing him with our first pick.


In 18 minutes. Why the HELL is he not getting more time is my question. As soon as he enters the game, TAU all of a sudden becomes a dominant defensive team.


----------



## Team Mao

^^^^^^
It's been rumoured for a long time that the reason a lot of young guys don't get a load of minutes in Europe is that the clubs don't want the scouts to get too good of a look at the players. In Splitter's case, especially a player with only one year left in his contract. Which is good in terms of his buyout, because they can choose to get something this year or nothing the next.

Tau is really deep in the frontcourt this year with Scola, Drobnjak, and Kornel David. David and Scola have been with Tau for a while too.


----------



## no_free_baskets

Team Mao said:


> I had a dream about it lastnight, it may have been wet, but I'm not willing to disclose those details. Bosh and Aldridge playing side by side with CV filling it up off the bench. :drool:
> 
> I know I might get flamed for this but I really like JJ Reddick if he's available with our second pick. I watched a few games this year and he has developed more of a game. I mean how does someone explain all the trips to the line if he's a spot up shooter. Whenever Duke plays anyone, the defensive gameplan is to shut him down and he still puts up huge numbers against big competition.
> 
> Defenses facing us would have the choice to double down low and give Reddick or Peterson the outside shot or stay honest on the perimeter and get beat by Bosh downlow. A shooter like Reddick will keep defences honest, even if they don't put up big numbers, they can create a lot of space for the team's big men.
> 
> Has anyone seen Brandon Rush this year? I know he's had a few big games and he's shooting 54% from 3 this year :eek8:


up to this pt, aldridge seems to be the clear cut guy at 1

reddick i like...hes a crafty guy who has learned how to set up his offense through his jump shot....i liken his game to r. miller...obviously i dont think he'll be as good as him, but their games are similar imo...i think he gets lockdown by the top tier defenders in the league, but with the majority of the defenders on him, i think he can get his offense off seeing as most defenders nowadays dont have a clue or put very minimal effort on d...hes smart offensively, so he'll know how to exploit these kind of defenders...

at worse, reddick is a lights out complimentary shooter which every teams needs...

if hes still around, id feel really comfortable taking this guy with denvers pick...


----------



## no_free_baskets

blowuptheraptors said:


> Shelden.
> 
> 19, 10 and *10*. Triple-double v. 21 Maryland.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that the number of blocks he gets is inversely related to the fear the other team has of going inside. Maryland went straight at him today in terms of penetration. The more teams fear him, the more they stay outside, the less blocks he gets.
> 
> Lesson: don't bother penetrating on the Landlord. Back him down, get good inside position, but penetrate? You see the results.
> 
> Magic Johnson in the stands was heaping praise on both JJ and Shelden.


i dont take what d.e as fait accompli, but i agree almost 100% with their latest scouting report on the guy...www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=18 

i think they mention that his official measurements height wise will be key in where he's taken, but i disagree slightly...i think his standing reach is a more important trait to consider in terms of whether he can be effective at the 5 (as weve seen before with willis.) 

i see williams as a dale davis type player with a bit more offensive upside (say 12/10, 13/10)...i just love this guys physicality and mentality in the paint...he just freaking owns in there...

if his s.r is acceptable for a 5, we have to take a serious look at this guy from 6 on out, imo...


----------



## butr

no_free_baskets said:


> i dont take what d.e as fait accompli, but i agree almost 100% with their latest scouting report on the guy...www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=18
> 
> i think they mention that his official measurements height wise will be key in where he's taken, but i disagree slightly...i think his standing reach is a more important trait to consider in terms of whether he can be effective at the 5 (as weve seen before with willis.)
> 
> i see williams as a dale davis type player with a bit more offensive upside (say 12/10, 13/10)...i just love this guys physicality and mentality in the paint...he just freaking owns in there...
> 
> if his s.r is acceptable for a 5, we have to take a serious look at this guy from 6 on out, imo...


When I look at what Rob drafted last year, SW is has a real chance. We are still near the bottom in rebounding and could surely use help on D in the frontcourt. Rob drafted CV partially because he rebounded well compared to others per min. JG a senior from a defensive program. Duke is not a defensive program but SW is a defensive senior from a great school in the toughest conference. And by the end of the year he'll have proven to be a winner.

He is everything Rob professes to look for in a player.


----------



## Benis007

blowuptheraptors said:


> When I look at what Rob drafted last year, SW is has a real chance. We are still near the bottom in rebounding and could surely use help on D in the frontcourt. Rob drafted CV partially because he rebounded well compared to others per min. JG a senior from a defensive program. Duke is not a defensive program but SW is a defensive senior from a great school in the toughest conference. And by the end of the year he'll have proven to be a winner.
> 
> He is everything Rob professes to look for in a player.


do you think he plays big enough to be an everday start at center in the NBA?


----------



## butr

Benis007 said:


> do you think he plays big enough to be an everday start at center in the NBA?


I would be in the minority I'm sure, but yes.


----------



## Benis007

blowuptheraptors said:


> I would be in the minority I'm sure, but yes.


Hey.. Ben Wallace isn't 6-9 on his tallest of days.. its possible.


----------



## The Truth IV

I don't like comparing players because I think it gets out of hand but having said that:

Shelden Williams is a clone of Antonio Davis. They look like brothers. Williams is more fluid and Williams won't need 2-3 years playing in Greece to develop his game like AD did. Both have effective mid-range jumpers, and block shots like crazy (think AD back in his younger days with the Pacers).
Not sure if Williams is married and whether his wife will wear the pants, time will tell.


----------



## butr

Both are valid comparisons. Shelden will be himself. He can bring things to the table that every team needs. Some more than others.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Problem is.. Shelden doesn't have the potential to warrant a pick from us.. Maybe with Denver.

There is no way I pick him top 5-7. He's not necessarly a sure thing either for us either, because of his size.

How about Boone - another defensive oriented big man? Jesus.. He'd be lucky to go mid first round, after being pegged by some to be a top 5 pick this year.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Benis007 said:


> do you think he plays big enough to be an everday start at center in the NBA?


Next to our 6'11 power forwards, I say yes too.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

^ Both are weak and don't have any presence on the defensive end, though.


----------



## Team Mao

vigilante said:


> ^ Both are weak and don't have any presence on the defensive end, though.


Exactly. That's why he would be a good fit next to them.


----------



## drlove_playa

I think Rudy Gay has bust written all over him. How many freak athletes were hyped up so high and entered the nba and did nothing. Too many to list.

Its hard to tell what position we will be picking with, but I'd like Adam Morrison. The only thing that concerns me is his speed. He is hella slow on defensive and he doesn't have an athletic bone in his body.

With the Denver pick, I'd take JJ Reddick. This guy can shoot the lights out. He has such a nice looking shot and can hit it with people in his face. He needs work on his strength and defense, but that will improve in time.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Rudy certainly has anything but Bust written all over him. The thing that concerns me with him is his shot prowess, it's sort of on the other end of the spectrum compared to Morrison, as we need guy that can really abuse defenses that dare double Bosh or Charlie. 

Morrison and Gay seem to be opposites in many aspects but I'd love to land either one, and think we have a great shot to do so.


----------



## Unknownone

*Article re: Gay (+ Jeff Green: JN heads up)*

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/13/AR2006011301865.html?nav=rss_sports


----------



## butr

vigilante said:


> Problem is.. Shelden doesn't have the potential to warrant a pick from us.. Maybe with Denver.
> 
> There is no way I pick him top 5-7. He's not necessarly a sure thing either for us either, because of his size.
> 
> How about Boone - another defensive oriented big man? Jesus.. He'd be lucky to go mid first round, after being pegged by some to be a top 5 pick this year.


You state this like it's fact rather than opinion. And how do you gauge upside? What makes Shelden have no upside? 

Its a statement I have a problem with. Upside is unfulfilled potential. It's like when Kia calls themselves the fastest growing car maker in the world.

Well duh, when you are small (young) it's easier to post larger growth numbers. To me It's more impressive when a giant like Toyota keeps steadily growing and taking market share at its massive size.

Just because a player is accomplished it does not mean there is no room for growth or improvement .

100% Bull****.


----------



## foul_balls

To UConn fans,

Need an opinion on Hilton Armstrong. This guy has looked good against good competition this year and is a later bloomer after sitting behind Okafor and Charlie V for the past 2 years. 

Is this guy a good choice for our second rounder? Is he more Sam Dalembert or more Loren Woods? ( i.e. a lean NBA centre)


----------



## ballocks

today gave me an awesome look at some "premium" college talent- and i didn't walk away impressed (granted, several games still on the plate). i think i said it earlier but i keep going back to it- maybe to make myself feel a little better: we don't need a shaquille o'neal to make us a contender. i see our picks as being important, but not as important as i thought they were earlier this year- which is good, because the pool is looking evermore mediocre by the day (imo). i know a lot of these kids have fans, and they should have fans, but i think the brands these colleges feed are heightening the reality of these players' talents. iow, this looks like a _really_ weak year. i can't remember being this... uninterested in ncaa prospects. 

if i were rob babcock, i'd just take my passport and go on a european vacation. i haven't seen any players worthy of keeping league gm's in the country/north america this season.

of course, i gotta go back to the first point- we don't need a cornerstone for our franchise. that's good. we need bona fide contributors. but i find it hard to see many current ncaaers under that light either. maybe the tournament'll change my view, but for now, of the players i've seen, i'm only excited- sorry, wrong word- i'm intrigued by lamarcus, rondo and, of course ,shelden (i love how the 6'9'' tag's eating his value... i'd be happy to get him for _both_ our picks, let alone just denver's). the rest haven't proven much to me at all.

i don't mind darius washington, i guess, but why's he's off most '06 mocks these days? anything happen to him? i thought highly of him as a freshman, and while i haven't seen him at all this year, i can only suspect he's improved.

and j boone? don't know what's ringing between his ears but he looks like a shadow of his freshman self/mind. maybe his draft night destiny'll suffer but i still see him as a steady pro.

anyway, gotta put myself back in my television now.

peace


----------



## speedythief

This draft class is starting to frustrate me. Most of the top ten or fifteen prospects are power forwards. What is it with that position?


----------



## SkywalkerAC

ballocks said:


> today gave me an awesome look at some "premium" college talent- and i didn't walk away impressed (granted, several games still on the plate). i think i said it earlier but i keep going back to it- maybe to make myself feel a little better: we don't need a shaquille o'neal to make us a contender. i see our picks as being important, but not as important as i thought they were earlier this year- which is good, because the pool is looking evermore mediocre by the day (imo). i know a lot of these kids have fans, and they should have fans, but i think the brands these colleges feed are heightening the reality of these players' talents. iow, this looks like a _really_ weak year. i can't remember being this... uninterested in ncaa prospects.
> 
> if i were rob babcock, i'd just take my passport and go on a european vacation. i haven't seen any players worthy of keeping league gm's in the country/north america this season.
> 
> of course, i gotta go back to the first point- we don't need a cornerstone for our franchise. that's good. we need bona fide contributors. but i find it hard to see many current ncaaers under that light either. maybe the tournament'll change my view, but for now, of the players i've seen, i'm only excited- sorry, wrong word- i'm intrigued by lamarcus, rondo and, of course ,shelden (i love how the 6'9'' tag's eating his value... i'd be happy to get him for _both_ our picks, let alone just denver's). the rest haven't proven much to me at all.
> 
> i don't mind darius washington, i guess, but why's he's off most '06 mocks these days? anything happen to him? i thought highly of him as a freshman, and while i haven't seen him at all this year, i can only suspect he's improved.
> 
> and j boone? don't know what's ringing between his ears but he looks like a shadow of his freshman self/mind. maybe his draft night destiny'll suffer but i still see him as a steady pro.
> 
> anyway, gotta put myself back in my television now.
> 
> peace



Are you sure you aren't just spoiled by the last 2 or 3 drafts? 2003 was a legendary year at the top of the draft but number 9 and down went like this:

Sweetney
Hayes
Pietrus 
Collison 
Banks
Ridnour
Gaines
Bell

This year, though surely not a strong year overall, will still supply plenty of talent. And, of course, the international talent outside Bargnani and Splitter isn't really being talked about. It seems that we'll have Rudy Fernandez or Marko Tomas available with our Denver pick, even if they make the playoffs; that's nothing to sneeze at IMO. 

And Darius Washington is creeping up the draftexpress mock from what I recall.

Strange going-on with Boone, that's for sure.

I do agree that we need complementary players, not a cornerstone, and that is a huge weight off our shoulders and a much better vantage point from which to judge potential picks. We really can afford to go quite safe with this draft and go for any position. If we come out with Shelden Williams and Carney (quite realistic really), we're in great shape. Brewer and Rush. Gay and Diaz. All these combinations are not unrealistic and would each go a long way to completing our team. Thing is that a lot of these guys wouldn't even get major minutes as rookies, and that's a great sign for our team. We've already got youth and developmental depth to go with our vets. 

I still want a lengthy, athletic 3 with a knack for scoring. Am starting to think it could be Rush- it's all in the body control.


----------



## shookem

Zags on Canadian TV!

Check out Adam Morrison tonight at 11:30 pm EST on the Score.

Great Duke game today.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Even if we went the Bobcat route and grabbed Shelden and Reddick, we'd be sitting on very firm ground indeed.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

blowuptheraptors said:


> You state this like it's fact rather than opinion. And how do you gauge upside? What makes Shelden have no upside?
> 
> Its a statement I have a problem with. Upside is unfulfilled potential. It's like when Kia calls themselves the fastest growing car maker in the world.
> 
> Well duh, when you are small (young) it's easier to post larger growth numbers. To me It's more impressive when a giant like Toyota keeps steadily growing and taking market share at its massive size.
> 
> Just because a player is accomplished it does not mean there is no room for growth or improvement .
> 
> 100% Bull****.


Okay, I personally feel Shelden Williams doesn't have much upside. You have seen my other posts to explain why, I think.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Man I want Morrison.


----------



## shookem

SkywalkerAC said:


> Man I want Morrison.


I saw him play last night.

It was super late but here's what I saw:

he's a team leader and has no problem being vocal.
he seemed to force a lot of his shots, which most of the times resulted in a trip to the foul line.
he seemed to be out of position on D a lot.
he is big enough and a good enough rebounder to be a 3 in the NBA.
I was really impressed with his rebounding ability.


----------



## changv10

What do you guys think of Richard Roby and Brandon Rush? Babcock was mentioned on the news scouting these two at a game.


----------



## osman

changv10 said:


> What do you guys think of Richard Roby and Brandon Rush? Babcock was mentioned on the news scouting these two at a game.


Brandon Rush is an intriguing prospect. He's a excellent athlete who can slash to the basket. This season at Kansas he has improved his shot and ball handling skills. I would consider him with our 2nd pick.


----------



## drlove_playa

I'd like to see the Raps get Rudy F.. I wanted the Raps to draft him last yr, but he pulled out of the draft. There was an article about him recently talking about how he improved so much. He can play SG and SF. 

The Raps have enuff big men. Like someone said, wait for Maglore to become a FA. I'd like the see the Raps get a good guard and then pick the best player available at the Denever pick.


----------



## drlove_playa

But the thing is, this is kinda a weak draft. There's not many highly skilled players in this draft, and certainly not at the center position. I'd love for the Raps to draft a good center if he is available. But I don't think one worth taking will be there. Hilton Armstrong certainly has been impressive so far. But alot will change by the time the draft rolls around. Some players will emerge and some will drop off the radar.


----------



## no_free_baskets

changv10 said:


> What do you guys think of Richard Roby and Brandon Rush? Babcock was mentioned on the news scouting these two at a game.


rush is high-maintenance (i.e situation with illinois, family history)...he looks to be one of those guys that will look for the 1st opportunity to leave t.o...there are better options, imo at sg/sf in the draft...


----------



## Dee-Zy

ok now, I don't know anything about the prospects cuz Canadian TV won't let me watch any of them, but from all the talk I gather on the internet...


If we have a shot at either Gay/Morrison or Bargani/Aldrige.

Who should we draft and why?

I understand that the whole thread has pretty much been about either or and it has been somewhat of a see-saw, but could somebody summarize me? It's hard to get anything explicit out of 22 pages.


----------



## martymar

Dee-Zy said:


> ok now, I don't know anything about the prospects cuz Canadian TV won't let me watch any of them, but from all the talk I gather on the internet...
> 
> 
> If we have a shot at either Gay/Morrison or Bargani/Aldrige.
> 
> Who should we draft and why?
> 
> I understand that the whole thread has pretty much been about either or and it has been somewhat of a see-saw, but could somebody summarize me? It's hard to get anything explicit out of 22 pages.


Uconn vs Syracuse is on at Rapstv right now, so you can check on rudy gay.


----------



## Dee-Zy

I wish I had rapstv


all I get is TSN/RDS, and Sporstnet East. What a load of ----


----------



## martymar

Dee-Zy said:


> I wish I had rapstv
> 
> 
> all I get is TSN/RDS, and Sporstnet East. What a load of sh1t.


Gonzaga and LMU is on as well

too bad Adam Morrison sat out most of 1st half cuz of foul trouble


----------



## changv10

We could definitely use a guy like *Shelden Williams*. He just had a triple double game with points, boards and ... BLOCKS !

19 points, 11 boards, 10 blocks

He comes from a great program in Duke. They haven't lost a game We should definitely consider him with one of our first rounders. Especially if LeMarcus Aldridge and Tiago Splitter are already taken. We need a shot-blocking/rebounding presence pronto !

Aldridge has more all-around skill ... and I think Splitter/Calderon would be something special ... they already have a bond from Tao and from the national games.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

changv10 said:


> We could definitely use a guy like *Shelden Williams*. He just had a triple double game with points, boards and ... BLOCKS !
> 
> 19 points, 11 boards, 10 blocks
> 
> He comes from a great program in Duke. They haven't lost a game We should definitely consider him with one of our first rounders. Especially if LeMarcus Aldridge and Tiago Splitter are already taken. We need a shot-blocking/rebounding presence pronto !
> 
> Aldridge has more all-around skill ... and I think Splitter/Calderon would be something special ... they already have a bond from Tao and from the national games.


National games with Splitter and Jose? Don't think so.

However, Tiago would have experience with three of our guys- Jose, Ukic, and Hoff.


----------



## Dee-Zy

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/vladimirveremeenko.asp


This guy sounds promising, that's the guy nbadraft.net has us drafting (mock) with our 2nd rounder.

Considering how stacked we are at the PF, I find it unlikely that it would happend and nbadraft.net probably put him there as he is likely to picked 34th, not because of T.O.

too bad though, the smal scouting reports sounds nice.

his "weakness" sounds like something that wouldn't bother T.O. much especially if his 'qualities' outweighs them. (Good rebounder and bangs in the paint).

thoughts?


----------



## Rhubarb

martymar said:


> Uconn vs Syracuse is on at Rapstv right now, so you can check on rudy gay.


Didn't do much to impress me.

It's obvious he has talent in bucketloads, but he floated around on the perimeter far too much for a guy who can take it in and finish it like himself. It's a bad habit forcing up longballs this early.

On the flipside, Boone looked great - active, showed his defensive nous, and had some good finishes. Armstrong was a blocking machine out there, but I don't know how his game will translate to the NBA. I noticed a few are already rather high on drafting him as a centre with one of our picks, but I have my doubts as to whether or not he's just a guy that can give you some decent minutes off the bench.

But damn, Calhoun has them trained up defensively.


----------



## speedythief

Splitter's draft stock seems to be a question mark right now. Some mocks (in their infinite accuracy) have him outside of the top-5. At the same time last year he was top-3 in mocks for 05 and 06, depending on when they speculated he would declare.

Does anyone know his contract status in Euroleague? Is he going to have to be bought-out, does he want to play in the NBA enough to facilitate a buy-out on his own, and can he play centre?

Imagine drafting him. I can picture the headlines now "Babcock drafts tough Brazillian big man... again", "Mistakes of the past relived", etc..


----------



## Boris

speedythief said:


> Splitter's draft stock seems to be a question mark right now. Some mocks (in their infinite accuracy) have him outside of the top-5. At the same time last year he was top-3 in mocks for 05 and 06, depending on when they speculated he would declare.
> 
> Does anyone know his contract status in Euroleague? Is he going to have to be bought-out, does he want to play in the NBA enough to facilitate a buy-out on his own, and can he play centre?
> 
> Imagine drafting him. I can picture the headlines now "Babcock drafts tough Brazillian big man... again", "Mistakes of the past relived", etc..


Splitter isn't Arujo, and he is center, but can play at PF spot.


----------



## Benis007

good points speedy...

it really makes me wonder what Hoffa has said about the team and playing in the NBA to his fellow countrymen.


----------



## Benis007

http://nbadraft.net/stockwatch018.asp

Stock watch updated 1/17/06

Hilton Armstrong interests me, but may be a reach with the Denver pick.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Boris said:


> Splitter isn't Arujo, and he is center, but can play at PF spot.


I'd say Splitter is more of a center than Araujo.


----------



## Rhubarb

Unless you're a can't miss prospect, I think any centre we draft should be looking to help us significantly on interior defense.

Splitter does that.


----------



## Dee-Zy

Dee-Zy said:


> ok now, I don't know anything about the prospects cuz Canadian TV won't let me watch any of them, but from all the talk I gather on the internet...
> 
> 
> If we have a shot at either Gay/Morrison or Bargani/Aldrige.
> 
> Who should we draft and why?
> 
> I understand that the whole thread has pretty much been about either or and it has been somewhat of a see-saw, but could somebody summarize me? It's hard to get anything explicit out of 22 pages.



^^^


----------



## kirk_2003

say NO to Splitter.


----------



## RapsFan

He hasn't been talked a lot in here but what about Maurice Ager from Michigan State with our later pick?


----------



## butr

Another mundane performance by Shelden.

23 pts (8-13FG & 5-7FT), 9 rebs, 4, blks and 5 stls. Oh and a block that changed momentum and sealed the win in the dying minutes not to mention some general dirty work on the floor.


----------



## AirBonner

I like Maurice Ager but I think he would really benefit from another year in college to improve his consistency across the board. He is prone to disappear on both ends of the floor.

Also, I wish that shelden had a better back to the basket game because the raptors could really benefit from that. If he was better in the post on both D and O he would be incredible.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

kirk_2003 said:


> say NO to Splitter.


why? he's playing really well of late. at times he's the best player on perhaps the best team in europe.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

kirk_2003 said:


> say NO to Splitter.


say NO to you saying anything like that again!


----------



## italianBBlover

Andrea Vs Sabonis's Zalgiris Kaunas

30 minutes
17 points
6-10 fg
4-6 from 3
3 rebounds
2 steals
1 block

And what a thundering facial slam on american center Tanoka Beard ...

And he was clutch, hitting 2 triples at the end of the game with still a close score (the game end 82-76 for Treviso)

A photo after the last 3, listening the audience


----------



## shookem

Duke's playing the Hoyas right now, only started about half an hour ago.

CBS.


----------



## NeoSamurai

shookem said:


> Duke's playing the Hoyas right now, only started about half an hour ago.
> 
> CBS.


just some general comments:

Redick had an awesome game...scored about half of Duke's points and was the real charge in helping Duke get close in the 2nd half...scored inside and outside...

Williams was pretty much a non-factor in the game...as they said during the broadcast, 2 years ago when the two teams played, Williams played a huge factor in a Duke blowout...today, he got into foul trouble with 4 fouls and about 10 mins left in the game....really was neutralized offensively...

watching the UCLA/WV game right now....WV knows how to ball...


----------



## aizn

wow, duke finally lost. jj reddick is crazy


----------



## shookem

NeoSamurai said:


> just some general comments:
> 
> Redick had an awesome game...scored about half of Duke's points and was the real charge in helping Duke get close in the 2nd half...scored inside and outside...
> 
> *Williams was pretty much a non-factor in the game*...as they said during the broadcast, 2 years ago when the two teams played, Williams played a huge factor in a Duke blowout...today, he got into foul trouble with 4 fouls and about 10 mins left in the game....really was neutralized offensively...
> 
> watching the UCLA/WV game right now....WV knows how to ball...


Williams was a non-factor in much of the game but made some really big plays down the stretch, creating turnovers, blocking shots...


----------



## ballocks

if we deal jalen for '06 cap room, i think (i think) our plan is in jeopardy:

1) we're looking at a barren free agent season- although '07 isn't _that_ much more appealing.

2) the '06 draft, completely imo, is at the very least *full* of unproven, raw talent. and i'm just being hopeful in saying it like that. i mean, i can't remember a less interesting, less impactful stack of ncaa collegiate players in my life- but i don't want to bring myself down here, so i do my best to retain a positive outlook and ignore what i really think. but ****...

===

i mean, before any players were put into either group ('06 fa's and draft prospects) things looked more than acceptable, hopeful- even exciting. imo, it just happens to be our luck that this year (now that we know who's included in each) appears to be one of the worst for both categories, and if true, would require our rebuilding efforts to *rely* (heavily) on development from _within_. so while it's not the end of the world, i don't think this was originally in the cards. 

man, i wanted to compete for the title in '07. this is just testing my patience a little more. if we're going to do it, it's almost certain to be with some of the young cards already on deck (chris, charlie, jose... joey, matt) in pillar positions, with the players we are to acquire through the draft from here on nestled comfortably on the IR or the end of the bench, and an important free agent or two contributing in some peripheral form.

man, i'll be watching our games with an even stronger microscope for the rest of the year. and i hope we find the "steal(s)" from the abovementioned groups when our turns roll around.

peace


----------



## foul_balls

Unknownone,

Saw the Duke-Georgetown game today. I see what you mean about Jeff Green. He has got a nice inside-outside game and played some adequate D on Shelden Williams. For a big guy, he looks like he can handle the ball too. 

And Roy Hibbert didn't look so bad even though his stats don't show it. He boxed out and didn't give up an inch in the paint on D. If this guy actually hits the weights and buffs up those droopy shoulders, he will be a force.

DUKE
Everyone is entitled to a bad game and he was often double-teamed, but Shelden Williams had a bad game today. He had trouble getting position on Roy Hibbert, and in the NBA, he is going to go up against similar bulk like Hibbert. Also, Shelden is listed at 6'9", but that seems pretty liberal. Looking at the game today, he looked at least a full inch shorter than Kilkenny-Diaw and Jeff Green, who are both listed at 6'9". Makes me wonder whether he is capable of playing C in the NBA.

JJ Redick had a great game though. He is killer from outside (NBA distances too), and can drive occasionally to keep people honest. Only problem with him as a pick is on the defensive end, where he might be a bit short to guard some opposing SG's. That said, there are lots of SG's who can't defend, so choosing him with one of the picks wouldn't be so bad IMO.


----------



## Unknownone

foul_balls said:


> Unknownone,
> 
> Saw the Duke-Georgetown game today. I see what you mean about Jeff Green. He has got a nice inside-outside game and played some adequate D on Shelden Williams. For a big guy, he looks like he can handle the ball too.
> 
> And Roy Hibbert didn't look so bad even though his stats don't show it. He boxed out and didn't give up an inch in the paint on D. If this guy actually hits the weights and buffs up those droopy shoulders, he will be a force.
> 
> DUKE
> Everyone is entitled to a bad game and he was often double-teamed, but Shelden Williams had a bad game today. He had trouble getting position on Roy Hibbert, and in the NBA, he is going to go up against similar bulk like Hibbert. Also, Shelden is listed at 6'9", but that seems pretty liberal. Looking at the game today, he looked at least a full inch shorter than Kilkenny-Diaw and Jeff Green, who are both listed at 6'9". Makes me wonder whether he is capable of playing C in the NBA.
> 
> JJ Redick had a great game though. He is killer from outside (NBA distances too), and can drive occasionally to keep people honest. Only problem with him as a pick is on the defensive end, where he might be a bit short to guard some opposing SG's. That said, there are lots of SG's who can't defend, so choosing him with one of the picks wouldn't be so bad IMO.


FB -

Caught the game as well - team doesn't resemble former coach Thompson's famed Hoya Paranoia squads of yesteryear in that the offensive schemes are derived from current coach Thompson III's stint as a player and coach in Pete Carril's system @ Princeton - in that structure, Green serves more as a point forward through which the offense is channeled through after the ball crosses halfcourt; he's slated to grow close to 7 feet once his college career's done from all accounts although he does need to fill out his frame weightwise... I do think that he's a true 6' 9" right now, unlike Williams's obviously embellished listed 6' 9" - trivia: Alonzo Mourning is no where close to 6' 9"/10" - he's 6' 8" to 6' 8 1/2" @ best although I'm not sure that Williams possesses the same athletic spring that Mourning did in his prime... If Jeff becomes more and more aggressive in his approach, I could see him surpass the Derrick McKey-like game (when McKey was @ Alabama) that I see from him right now...

Roy is still a work-in-progress - you can see that he occupies a lot of space, but b/c of his weight issues coming out of Georgetown Prep, it'll still be some time before the adjective agile could be used in the same phrase as Hibbert on a consistent basis... As I've mentioned elsewhere, the team will be better next year w/ the arrival of DeJuan Summers, Vern Macklin (both of whom are consensus top 25 high school recruits), and Doc Rivers's son (Jeremiah) as well - what will prove to be extremely interesting and a nostalgic nod will be Patrick Ewing Jr. being eligible for the next couple of years, in time for Dikembe's son, who's presently a junior in high school right now, to step onto campus as he's expressed interest in doing so (and confirmed by his father)...


----------



## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> Raise another name that might rise
> 
> From Gonzaga - J.P Batista , 6.9 / 269
> 
> Avg. 21 Pts, 9Rebs, 56%. Only 2 blocks in 5 games however. Probably not a C.


JN -

For some reason, he reminds me of Alaa Abdelnaby...


----------



## bigbabyjesus

shookem said:


> Duke's playing the Hoyas right now, only started about half an hour ago.
> 
> CBS.


Shelden Williams, touted as our savior at centre, gets dominated by another inexperienced frontcourt.


----------



## Boris

kirk_2003 said:


> say NO to Splitter.


Jonathan Givony say's yes to Splitter
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1170


----------



## butr

vigilante said:


> Shelden Williams, touted as our savior at centre, gets dominated by another inexperienced frontcourt.


Yep. Dominated.

Oops. Rebounds, someone had 11 in 34 mins. I'm not sure who, but it was the most earned in a game where that player was in horse**** foul trouble (as happens to all shotblockers in the NCAA).

Oops. Someone forgot how to play D with 2 blocks and 3 steals in those same reduced minutes.

One bad shooting night, sure. Kobe Bryant scored 11 in his first game vs. Toronto. And we all know that one game defines a career.

You know 'cause when I come on here to harp on Shelden, I do it because he is our projected first option on O. Oh wait, that doesn't make sense. What do the Raps ****ing suck at? What did he still provide in a game where he was "DOMINATED"?


----------



## bigbabyjesus

He can put up all the numbers he wants, but whenever I watch Duke, it seems some big man is just abusing Shelden down low. He has length, but I have seen a lot of guys shoot over him quite easily.

Is Shelden Williams that much better than Pape Sow?


----------



## ansoncarter

Adam Morrison had 41 tonight (I think)

season avg must be close to 30 by now


----------



## butr

vigilante said:


> He can put up all the numbers he wants, but whenever I watch Duke, it seems some big man is just abusing Shelden down low. He has length, but I have seen a lot of guys shoot over him quite easily.
> 
> Is Shelden Williams that much better than Pape Sow?


Cal-Fullerton is in that super tough conference.

In 32.2 mins 17.3 pts, 9.7 rebs, 0.6 blks, 1.6 stls 0.494fg%

vs. 

31.5mins, 17.6pts, 9.5 rebs, 3.6 blks, 2.2 stls, 0.595fg%

Let me ask you who in college ball that does not get abused down low? Based heavily on the ****ty refs and only 5 fouls, you have to play a certian way. It is not just Shelden.


----------



## butr

Shelden v. VT

24 pts on 9-14FG and 6-7FT, 15 rebs but only one block in just 29 minutes.

VT did not penetrate on him when in the game.

He also showcased his mid-range shooting ability in this game.


----------



## Unknownone

foul_balls said:


> And Roy Hibbert didn't look so bad even though his stats don't show it. He boxed out and didn't give up an inch in the paint on D. If this guy actually hits the weights and buffs up those droopy shoulders, he will be a force.


http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9186355


----------



## butr

Shelden v Virginia.

17 pts on 5-9 fg, 6-6 ft, 10 rebs, 8 blks, 4 asts

JJ 40 pts on 8-10 from 3.


----------



## AirBonner

I think pretty much everyone will admit that Shelden Williams is a nice college player and an interesting prospect but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a mistake to draft him. The raptors need a strong C, with an appropriate NBA build, above average post defence and good post offence. They already have a 6'8 player in Pape Sow who can block shots and be an active undersized C. Bosh is at his best when he is facing the basket and so is Charlie V. None of these players however can hold off aggressive an physical Cs as was evidenced against the Bucks last night. Unfortunately for all the Duke and Shelden fans out there I just don't see how he fits the bill. Shelden's post D is average at best as he has been manhandled multiple times this season by bigger players with post up games and his post moves on offence are nothing to right home about either. Furthermore and probably most important is that he just doesn't have the C size to be able to effectively complement and improve the defence of the current raptor squad.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Another 40+ point game from Morrison. The boy certainly can score.


----------



## butr

AirBonner said:


> I think pretty much everyone will admit that Shelden Williams is a nice college player and an interesting prospect but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a mistake to draft him. The raptors need a strong C, with an appropriate NBA build, above average post defence and good post offence. They already have a 6'8 player in Pape Sow who can block shots and be an active undersized C. Bosh is at his best when he is facing the basket and so is Charlie V. None of these players however can hold off aggressive an physical Cs as was evidenced against the Bucks last night. Unfortunately for all the Duke and Shelden fans out there I just don't see how he fits the bill. Shelden's post D is average at best as he has been manhandled multiple times this season by bigger players with post up games and his post moves on offence are nothing to right home about either. Furthermore and probably most important is that he just doesn't have the C size to be able to effectively complement and improve the defence of the current raptor squad.


Shelden is longer than Pape and smarter. Stop comparing Pape to Shelden. Just because they are both "undersized" it does not make them the same player.

This team is last in rebounding. Who is a better rebounder that gives as much in other aspects of the game? Pape has no-where near the IQ or sense for the game that Shelden has. I love that people **** on Shelden and Reddick for being undersized for their projected NBA positions. When Magic Johnson, a State grad heaps praise on them and puts down their detractors, i know I'm not wrong.

What do you want for interior D in the NCAA? What is he supposed to do? He has 5 fouls to work with and he has to play straight up to prevent ticky tack fouls. i mean who is going to burn him and burn him in the NBA that would not burn anyone else down low?

I mean I've seen this kid **** up 7+ footers, so his "lack of size" is surely obviously made up for with reach. Given the chance he CAN be a very good 5 in this league.

I'm not going to change anyone's mind. But I'll be there come this time next year, no matter what team he's on.


----------



## ballocks

saw ronnie brewer for only the second time today. he doesn't appear raw anymore and while he still takes questionable jumpers (i.e. while he's still a college player), he moves really well and doesn't get easily distracted by the highs and lows that define the ncaa. i thought he looked like a more than worthy first rounder today (at least with respect to the ncaa pool this year) and he... maybe... well, i won't make a judgment on him today but let's just say i'll be watching him come tournament time. and if the 'backs don't make the big show, i guess i'll have to check the nit (no interest tournament) for the first time since ~'97.

rondo still looks like a quality player. he's another guy with excellent on-the-ball defensive skills (imo), not to mention clear leadership ability. so while i'm not at all excited by the ncaa offensive talent this year (i don't know who is), there are without a doubt some pro defenders there. and when you think about it, we don't necessarily need a "franchise". we don't even need a second option i don't think. instead, we probably need a sean elliott-, mario elie-, buck williams-like weapon and i think we can find him. we might find two.

but really, if nothing changes (and it will), i'd _consider_ dealing our two picks for one shelden. i really would. i just don't think we'd get abused anymore if we had him. i think that's one of our biggest problems right now (if not the biggest), that we get abused inside and--- on--- the--- glass, and shelden would help there. but at least some of the other kids are coming around now too; maybe we'll end up with another quality pair to take us to the next level, shelden or not. 

peace


----------



## AirBonner

blowuptheraptors said:


> Shelden is longer than Pape and smarter. Stop comparing Pape to Shelden. Just because they are both "undersized" it does not make them the same player.
> 
> This team is last in rebounding. Who is a better rebounder that gives as much in other aspects of the game? Pape has no-where near the IQ or sense for the game that Shelden has. I love that people **** on Shelden and Reddick for being undersized for their projected NBA positions. When Magic Johnson, a State grad heaps praise on them and puts down their detractors, i know I'm not wrong.


I didn't say that Pape was as good as Shelden nor did I say that Shelden can't be a good player because he is undersized but the point is that he is not the right player for the raptors.



blowuptheraptors said:


> What do you want for interior D in the NCAA? What is he supposed to do? He has 5 fouls to work with and he has to play straight up to prevent ticky tack fouls. i mean who is going to burn him and burn him in the NBA that would not burn anyone else down low?
> 
> I mean I've seen this kid **** up 7+ footers, so his "lack of size" is surely obviously made up for with reach. Given the chance he CAN be a very good 5 in this league.
> 
> I'm not going to change anyone's mind. But I'll be there come this time next year, no matter what team he's on.


Dominant D in the post exists in college and it happens all the time. He isn't a good post defender and that has been evidenced every time he has gone up against a good post scorer.


----------



## butr

AirBonner said:


> I didn't say that Pape was as good as Shelden nor did I say that Shelden can't be a good player because he is undersized but the point is that he is not the right player for the raptors.
> 
> 
> 
> Dominant D in the post exists in college and it happens all the time. He isn't a good post defender and that has been evidenced every time he has gone up against a good post scorer.


So off the top of your head, give me 3 or 5 very good current post defenders.


----------



## speedythief

Defense is the biggest jump for college guys to pros, other than the length of the season. Most players, even post players, do not enter the NBA and become above average defenders. Even Okafor is just a "good" or "decent" post defender right now in his second year.

A lot of it depends on desire and I think Williams has it.


----------



## Benis007

If he is available. I am taking Aldridge over any other Big Man in the draft.


----------



## martymar

speedythief said:


> Defense is the biggest jump for college guys to pros, other than the length of the season. Most players, even post players, do not enter the NBA and become above average defenders. Even Okafor is just a "good" or "decent" post defender right now in his second year.
> 
> A lot of it depends on desire and I think Williams has it.


I agree you that being a very good defender doesn't translate into a very good NBA defender and there number of factors not just the length of season

1)scouting
2)system-college system is very different to NBA system
3)travel
4)veteran savyness
5)officiating
6)footwork
7)fundamentals
8)tenacity(most good defensive players are mean)


----------



## martymar

Benis007 said:


> If he is available. I am taking Aldridge over any other Big Man in the draft.


I like Aldridge but I do believe Chicago will draft him though


----------



## martymar

blowuptheraptors said:


> So off the top of your head, give me 3 or 5 very good current post defenders.


Before anyone answers this who do you consider very good current post defenders


----------



## butr

martymar said:


> Before anyone answers this who do you consider very good current post defenders


I clearly don't have a clue. I like Shelden. Defensive player of the year just isn't up to snuff inside though. This is why I asked for better alternatives.


----------



## Benis007

Cnnsi.com article - Ten to Watch

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/chris_ekstrand/01/27/top.ten/index.html



> The 2006 NBA Draft will serve as a rebirth for college basketball players. For years now, college players have languished as the draft increasingly became the domain of relentlessly hyped international players and high schoolers jumping directly to the pros. Now, the new Collective Bargaining Agreement prohibiting high school seniors from entering the draft and a weak international class will help college players return to prominence on June 28.
> 
> With about five months to go before the draft, it's the time of year when so-called draft experts pepper you with provocative predictions about who will go where. Mock drafts, the opium du jour of the weak-minded masses, are spawned and multiply by the day. Of course, a 41-point explosion by Gonzaga's Adam Morrison (vs. San Francisco, Jan. 23) or a four-point stinker by Duke's Shelden Williams (vs. Georgetown, Jan. 21) is enough to spur many prognosticators into action, with the player in question charging up the draft board with a bullet or sinking out of the first round entirely.
> 
> Let's get a grip. It's January. Players are scouted and reputations are forged over an entire season and an entire college career, not one great or one bad game. NBA scouts watch for players who display improving skill level, consistent effort and consistent performance against high-level competition.
> 
> I'd like to say one more thing about mock drafts while I'm on my soapbox. If you could get an honest answer out of an NBA GM, he'd tell you he has no idea who he will pick in June. Opinions change, and when you are evaluating the progress and potential of 19- to 21-year-olds, evaluations can shift at the 11th hour.


----------



## AirBonner

Off the top of my head... and i haven't stat checked these guys but Marco Killingsworth, Leon Powe and Eric Williams (the one from wake forest) are all better post defenders then shelden williams. I'm sure i could think of a few more but those come off the top of my head. But like it has been said, there are players who are dominant in the post in college such as Okafor, Zo, Dikembe etc.


----------



## CrookedJ

Has anyone seen Splitter play before, he seems to be toted as a solid defender, to match with good offensive skills and actual center size. I know he has a buyout, but if he is picked near top that shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## butr

AirBonner said:


> Off the top of my head... and i haven't stat checked these guys but Marco Killingsworth, Leon Powe and Eric Williams (the one from wake forest) are all better post defenders then shelden williams. I'm sure i could think of a few more but those come off the top of my head. But like it has been said, there are players who are dominant in the post in college such as Okafor, Zo, Dikembe etc.


So you would rather have Marco Killingsworth in the post against Eddy Curry, Zo, Shaq, TD and any number of other post scorer over Shelden?

Marco is a solid 6 foot 7 inches and thick.
Eric is 6-8 and thicker. 
Powe is 6-8 240.
All average a block or so per game.

I mean no one scrutinises these guys like they do Shelden. In the biggest game on the sked, Marco has a great game v. Duke. But how about the rest. V. Iowa he was out boarded and out scored by his counterpart. Against Mich State he got a whole 1 board in 34 mins with no blocks and scored a ton. Davis scored 23 and 10 on him. I don't see Shelden getting burned for 75% fg% and 34 every day. I also don't see what your examples bring to the table over Shelden especially since they are all listed 6-8 or less.


----------



## Benis007

Marco reminds me a lot of Sean May


----------



## butr

Benis007 said:


> Marco reminds me a lot of Sean May


I edited that out of my last response. I agree. Do you want May holding down the fort for 30+ mins per game?

I don't.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

blowuptheraptors said:


> I edited that out of my last response. I agree. Do you want May holding down the fort for 30+ mins per game?
> 
> I don't.


**** no. not beside Bosh, and not beside Charlie. We need a complimentary freak in our frontcourt to balance our offensive juggernauts. I don't know if Sheldon will be the guy for our first pick but we need a player like the Landlord. Our power forwards are going to be putting up a lot of shots and drawing a lot of defenders to them in the lane. We either need a small forward in the Marion mold (I think Rudy Gay could be that guy) or a center in the Ben Wallace mold if we're going to be truly successful with the both of them. 

SW is the closest to BW in this draft as the best defensive strongman. I think you can play Williams, Bosh, and Charlie in the same frontline (and be great). As versatile as they are, there no way they can play effectively with a guy like May (marco).

One reason I loved the Charlie pick so much is that it creates amazing potential for our frontcourt. To maximize it you need to bring in that one perfect guy at the 3/5.


----------



## ballocks

that SI piece doesn't get me excited. if we're talking about a weak international class this year, things ain't looking up. 

lol. like, i don't want to bring anyone down, but if the collegians are the cream of the crop this year, it ain't good. they're mediocrity personified, imo. and to be honest, i think my standards for these kids have fallen through the floor- i'm looking at a player who can set a decent pick in the princeton offense and i'm licking my chops. lol. ah well. 

we'll see how they look come national coverage time.

peace


----------



## foul_balls

Unknownone said:


> http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9186355


Thanks for the article. Good read. Hibbert with a good stat line today against DePaul (yeah, I know, weak opponent). 

Hope this guy gets significant minutes in the Tourney. Ya never know, with some good performances hopefully, he gets rated high enough that he can't do anything but declare early.


----------



## The Truth IV

Hibbert looked lost against Duke - too skinny so he ought to stay in school.

Lamarcus Aldridge is Robert Parish re-incarnated - if you don't think so you're wrong.


----------



## AirBonner

By no means did I suggest that Killingsworth, Powe, Williams etc should be selected before Shelden Williams. I just said that they are very good low-post defenders in the college game whereas Shelden is not. The reason I made this statement in the first place is because I believe that the raptors have more need of a good low post defender then a player like Shelden who's skill are more oriented towards shot blocking then post up defence. I just don't know enough about Aldridge or Splitter to talk about their post defence.


----------



## butr

Shelden v BC

21, 6 and 7

on 4/9 and 13/16 FT. Team rebounding was very even but 6 was the team high.


----------



## tbp82

The Truth IV said:


> Hibbert looked lost against Duke - too skinny so he ought to stay in school.
> 
> Lamarcus Aldridge is Robert Parish re-incarnated - if you don't think so you're wrong.


Okay The Truth IV so Aldridge is Robert Parish incarnated is that supposed to be a compliment or a put down. Parish was a nine time all-star. Named one of the NBA's 50 greatest players. 81-82 he was second in MVP voting (Bird won). He also has four rings. (three Boston one Bulls). IF he is going to have that kind of career then he is by far the number #1 pick in this years draft.


----------



## foul_balls

The Truth IV said:


> Hibbert looked lost against Duke - too skinny so he ought to stay in school.


I agree that Hibbert isn't ready right now, but this year's draft is the best chance we have at him with our 2nd pick (if Denver does well) or our 3rd pick. Raps likely don't have a 1st rounder in 07-08 due to GG's crappy Murray for a first rounder trade. As for being lost, I couldn't disagree more. He held his own in the paint and boxed out well on the Duke forwards. He has looked good offensively in other games, even though he didn't in this one.


----------



## no_free_baskets

wow, im not that big of a college bball fan, but duke vs. bc was an amazing game yesterday...as usual, an inordinate amount of jock ridding of reddick by the announcers, but damn that guy is the truth....his offensive game (like morrison) is just old school.. both guys are gonna get theirs points in the league cuz guys dont want to put the effort into guarding these kind of guys anymore (i.e chasing them around off screens, etc....)...anyone that thinks we can get reddick with our den. pick forget about it...it wont happen in a million yrs...imo, this guys is most assuredly going top 10...


----------



## tbp82

I don't know about not getting Reddick with the Denver pick. I know a lot of fans are really into the hype machine when it comes to Reddick and Morrison to for that matter but if everyone who is expected to come out comes out you guys will probably get a shot at Reddick with that Denver pick. According to the latest ESPN top 10 Reddick is not in the top ten. Leaving him 12 shots from the 22nd pick which the Denver pick would be. If you look around at some other mock drafts some have Reddick in the top ten (some also have Morrison number #1 which is a joke when Aldridge, Bargini, Gay, and Tyrus Thomas could all be there) so...........I would say there are guys like Shawne Williams, Daniel Gibson, Randy Foye, Marcus Williams, Brandon Rush, Brandon Roy that is six more guys who could easily show up Reddick in individual workouts and drop his stock now that would put him at #16 and the if you add in some of the sleeper big men Taj Gray, Hilton Armstorng, Paul Davis, Patrick O' Bryant and he is right there for you guys. I think Reddick would be a perfect complement to the Raptors. Bosh drawing double teams and kicking out to Reddick sounds deadly also factor in that you guys could land the #1 pick and get Lamarcus Aldridge with Bosh, Aldridge, and Charlie V Reddick would be wide open all day everyday.


----------



## butr

There is no shot with the DEN pick as it stands now in the 20s. JJ will be picked in the lottery (top 14) and possibly in the Top 10. I have heard reports of GMs (unnamed) that think he will be very productive at the pro level. I would love for it to happen guys, but really, don't get your hopes up unless DEN implodes. Don't go by ESPN now either, Chad for doesn't cover the draft super closely right now. Stick to the dedicated sites for now.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> Shelden v BC
> 
> 21, 6 and 7
> 
> on 4/9 and 13/16 FT. Team rebounding was very even but 6 was the team high.


Stats
21-6-7 and 1 raping of Rice in the last 30 seconds of the game.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> Stats
> 21-6-7 and 1 raping of Rice in the last 30 seconds of the game.



For once, Shelden had a play where he did foul and it was not called. I could send you a few tapes highlighting non-fouls called but rather than pay for postage I would like to put a downpayment on my condo.


----------



## no_free_baskets

believe me, i dont think im getting sucked into the jj hype...the guy can just flat out play, its that simple...i would agree to some extent that he was overhyped in his 1st 2 yrs, but hes improved his overall offensive game significantly since then...i mean, i dont like or dislike duke, but to hear these announcers prattle on and on about him, its rather nauseating...if i didnt consider myself a fairly objective person, i would think, i would be more prone to disliking him, then liking the guy, to tell you the truth... 

if anything, i think mcroberts is pretty overhyped at this pt..i mean dont get how hes still considered top 5 in the 07 draft...i think he can play at the next level, but i just dont see anything special in his game as of yet...


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Basketball is still a game about more then scoring. AND TRUST ME JJ IS NOT JUST A SHOOTER, HE HAS BECOME A SCORER, and one of the best of the last 10 years in college basketball(Carmelo would have been a better scorer as a soph, but I digress). The guy can score 17-20 a game in the NBA

But is a player with clear deficiencies defensively (small 2 with average speed at best), poor rebounder and a below average playmaker for a 2, going to be a lottery pick, just because of his SCORING ability.

I'm not sold on him being a lottery pick... but then again Trajan went in the lotto, with the same deficiencies as JJ.., and was not nearly as good a scorer. I have a feeling some teams will love him, other teams will laugh at the thought of him as a lotto pick. It will depend alot on the fit, and the coaches style.


----------



## butr

27, 13 and 4 in a nail-biter


----------



## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> But is a player with clear deficiencies defensively (small 2 with average speed at best), poor rebounder and a below average playmaker for a 2, going to be a lottery pick, just because of his SCORING ability.


Reminds me of the situation @ Iowa State w/ Jamaal Tinsley and Marcus Fizer; both All-Americans as Cyclones under Eustachy w/ more accolades thrown towards Fizer as Iowa State muscled its way into the tournament... Couple of years later, Fizer has enjoyed a checkered pro career and last was in the NBDL when I caught his name whereas Tinsley is a somewhat dependable PG for the Pacers; Fizer unfortunately suffered from a tweener's profile, which wasn't exposed at the collegiate level, but deficiencies as such come to the fore unequivocally in the pro game; I'll give JJ props for raising his game to the point where he's become a great college scorer - however, I'm not sure that he'll be able to translate the skill sets he possesses once he's playing professionally - he may be a tweener (as aforementioned) at the guard position: shooting guard, but w/o the height to be consistently effective...


----------



## butr

Wow, Shelden is playing so well doing the little things. He is passing really well out of double teams. Got down like a lock down 3 for a great steal. Some tough boards too.

Whoever drafts him is going to get a special player.


----------



## butr

26, 13 & 7. Maryland.


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

Shelden Williams was phenominal.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> Wow, Shelden is playing so well doing the little things. He is passing really well out of double teams. Got down like a lock down 3 for a great steal. Some tough boards too.
> 
> Whoever drafts him is going to get a special player.


Come on now. A "special" player. 

You draft Williams, he should be a safe pick. A guy that will bang, bring good D, board. A solid player, and a legit top 10 pick. But special is going overboard.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

^ Yeah.. special isn't the right word.. more like... average


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> Come on now. A "special" player.
> 
> You draft Williams, he should be a safe pick. A guy that will bang, bring good D, board. A solid player, and a legit top 10 pick. But special is going overboard.


How many people in the league can average a double-double with rebounds and get 2 blocks a game?

That's what I see for him. If those numbers aren't special to you, you must be smoking something.

You guys focus way to much on the O regarding everything. You want a freak leaper on the wings and get caught up in the hype that everyone else gets caught up in. You need to rebound, and you need to play D.


----------



## martymar

blowuptheraptors said:


> How many people in the league can average a double-double with rebounds and get 2 blocks a game?
> 
> That's what I see for him. If those numbers aren't special to you, you must be smoking something.
> 
> You guys focus way to much on the O regarding everything. You want a freak leaper on the wings and get caught up in the hype that everyone else gets caught up in. You need to rebound, and you need to play D.


You must be smoking something to think that Shelden Williams will average double double and 2 blocks a game, there are 2 players in the NBA averaging double double plus 2 blocks a game and thats Tim Duncan and Elton Brand, but i'm sorry Shedlen William is nowhere as good as them


----------



## SkywalkerAC

martymar said:


> You must be smoking something to think that Shelden Williams will average double double and 2 blocks a game, there are 2 players in the NBA averaging double double plus 2 blocks a game and thats Tim Duncan and Elton Brand, but i'm sorry Shedlen William is nowhere as good as them


no, but i wouldn't put my money on him never averaging a dub-dub with 2 blocks either.


----------



## arcade_rida

I believe JJ in a system like the Suns, Sonics, Cleveland, Nuggets, Golden State Warriors. Maybe a system like that or maybe even the Bulls JJ will be great in. However if the Jazz, Spurs, or any slow paced team gets him then he wont do very well.


----------



## arcade_rida

I am going to make a bold prediction and say I have a feeling Rush is going to be better then Gay. Rush has the skills and athletism to be great. Gay is basically a physical speciman that doesn't have the best offensive tools and mechanics. Maybe this is too bold but I just have a feeling Gay isn't as great as everyone thinks. I have seen him 5-7 times and in those games he hasnt been the star on the Uconn team. Then again he maybe struggling because of so much movement in college. In the NBA you have to be able to dribble and if you can then you're probably going to be very successful.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> How many people in the league can average a double-double with rebounds and get 2 blocks a game?
> 
> That's what I see for him. If those numbers aren't special to you, you must be smoking something.
> 
> You guys focus way to much on the O regarding everything. You want a freak leaper on the wings and get caught up in the hype that everyone else gets caught up in. You need to rebound, and you need to play D.


If you see double-double for him on a good team, your expectations might be a little high. I still see the downside of him as basically being Etan Thomas. Plus he is not a great defender... high shot blocks do not equal great defender... they are a component of evaluating one's d.

To criticize for me being bias towards athletic freaks is totally unfair.... Otherwise, I would have been pimping Hakim Warrick last year... which I certainly was not.


----------



## butr

martymar said:


> You must be smoking something to think that Shelden Williams will average double double and 2 blocks a game, there are 2 players in the NBA averaging double double plus 2 blocks a game and thats Tim Duncan and Elton Brand, but i'm sorry Shedlen William is nowhere as good as them



I'll be here. Will you?


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> If you see double-double for him on a good team, your expectations might be a little high. I still see the downside of him as basically being Etan Thomas. Plus he is not a great defender... high shot blocks do not equal great defender... they are a component of evaluating one's d.
> 
> To criticize for me being bias towards athletic freaks is totally unfair.... Otherwise, I would have been pimping Hakim Warrick last year... which I certainly was not.


You're right I see him thriving rather than strugling to adapt to the NBA game. I also think he can defend the post better than a lot of you. I think he is left on an island an awful lot due to the Duke game. I am not alone on that if you read the scouting reports.

What I don't do is go ga ga over the Marvin Williams' of the world. You won't see me go nuts for this year's Marvin, in Rudy.


----------



## martymar

blowuptheraptors said:


> You're right I see him thriving rather than strugling to adapt to the NBA game. I also think he can defend the post better than a lot of you. I think he is left on an island an awful lot due to the Duke game. I am not alone on that if you read the scouting reports.
> 
> What I don't do is go ga ga over the Marvin Williams' of the world. You won't see me go nuts for this year's Marvin, in Rudy.


you got to be kidding yourself to think JJ redick can defend NBA 2s


----------



## butr

martymar said:


> you got to be kidding yourself to think JJ redick can defend NBA 2s



Wow. Where in that quote did I mention JJ?

How good is Iverson guarding 2s. How was Reggie? How is Rip? Manu? Grade each of those players for me.


----------



## Benis007

Anyone that got a chance to see Villanova play UConn last night was blessed.

Sick game.


----------



## SickGame

Yeah it was an awesome game.
Rudy Gay looks really good but he lacks that killer instinct. But yet again, he's only a sophomore.
Randy Foye had a subpar game which sucked because I enjoy watching him as a player.
I'm pretty bitter that UConn couldn't pull it out and D.Brown played like such ****. I remember ballin against him when I was in High School, unbelievable, but he's been so unlucky with injuries during his college career.


----------



## martymar

SickGame said:


> Yeah it was an awesome game.
> Rudy Gay looks really good but he lacks that killer instinct. But yet again, he's only a sophomore.
> Randy Foye had a subpar game which sucked because I enjoy watching him as a player.
> I'm pretty bitter that UConn couldn't pull it out and D.Brown played like such ****. I remember ballin against him when I was in High School, unbelievable, but he's been so unlucky with injuries during his college career.


plus he is playing in UCONN and they have a deep team every year, but I do remember when Denham Brown played for canada in 2003 Olympic qualifying he played real well specially against the american team.

They did an article on Rudy Gay's game when he was in baltimore they said when he was younger he was soft but started to play with an edge when he tried to dunk but got knocked down


----------



## Dee-Zy

I watched Sheldon play last weekend, and I might be the only one who thinks this but I think he would be a nice fit for the raps.

He looks like a good defender to me, that hustles hard and does all the little thing in the post. Exactly what we need.


My only concern is that can he do that as a C in the nba against NBA Cs?


----------



## butr

Dee-Zy said:


> I watched Sheldon play last weekend, and I might be the only one who thinks this but I think he would be a nice fit for the raps.


:laugh:


----------



## CrookedJ

^^ Hee hee. So just how tall is Sheldon? Is he 6'8", 6'9" 6'10" or will we even know for sure till the combine?


----------



## speedythief

Ok guys, I don't mean to sound disruptive or insulting, but we should really start talking about some other prospects for a while. I think we've driven the Shelden/JJ talk into the ground. Maybe we can pick it up again when they go to the FF next month.


Here's a topic for debate:

Brewer vs. Rush vs. Carney vs. Roy


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Best guard in America = Randy Foye

Better rebounder, defender, passer, then what's his name.


----------



## speedythief

JuniorNoboa said:


> Best guard in America = Randy Foye
> 
> Better rebounder, defender, passer, then what's his name.


PG or SG? Both?


----------



## butr

CrookedJ said:


> ^^ Hee hee. So just how tall is Sheldon? Is he 6'8", 6'9" 6'10" or will we even know for sure till the combine?


Probably 6-9 in shoes but with a very long wingspan. We'll have to wait to be sure.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

speedythief said:


> PG or SG? Both?



He can play both - probably more of a SG... his skills may not necessarily project that well to the NBA either. But one hell of a college player.


----------



## SickGame

JuniorNoboa said:


> He can play both - probably more of a SG... his skills may not necessarily project that well to the NBA either. But one hell of a college player.


I'm a big fan of Foye as well. Great shooter, agressive defender, mature and a good leader. He's definately more suited to play SG.
I'd think he'd be a perfect character type player on the team. He lost both his parents when he was young and has been through alot (read some article on him on Yahoo once, it was pretty cool). Seems to have his head screwed on right.
He needs to bulk up abit but he plays bigger than his size due to his aggressive streak.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

tOOA D BAD AOBVUTBHIS PARNENTS. dfoUE IS THE GERATEST.


----------



## Team Mao

JuniorNoboa said:


> tOOA D BAD AOBVUTBHIS PARNENTS. dfoUE IS THE GERATEST.


Dude, the typing garbage is played out.


----------



## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> Best guard in America = Randy Foye
> 
> Better rebounder, defender, passer, then what's his name.


I'm going Big East on this and would nominate Foye as well - as for the latter, an article that may be somewhat enlightening for some, seen as disparaging by others:

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20060225-123107-5315r.htm


----------



## speedythief

Hilton Armstrong continues to improve this year. He abused Nova today, racking up 8 blocks, several in one defensive sequence. Just 2 rebounds in 29 minutes, though (and five fouls).

Should be interesting to see how he and Boone do in the tournament, with both of them looking to get drafted this year.


----------



## Dee-Zy

I dunno if this guy has been mentionned before but...


I just watched a lil bit of conn vs vill and learned that Denham Brown is from Toronto.


Anybody know anything about him? He's a senior, so I'm guessin if he doesn't get drafted this summer his basketball career is over huh?


nevermind, I just a quick search, he's projected to be drafted 55th

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/denhambrown.asp

He's a SG from toronto, maybe we can pick him up with our mia pick?


----------



## Crossword

LOL, where have you been? Denham Brown was a hot topic back in like... 2002, but not now. He's a decent scorer but is he really worth drafting, even with the Miami pick?


----------



## JuniorNoboa

speedythief said:


> Hilton Armstrong continues to improve this year. He abused Nova today, racking up 8 blocks, several in one defensive sequence. Just 2 rebounds in 29 minutes, though (and five fouls).
> 
> Should be interesting to see how he and Boone do in the tournament, with both of them looking to get drafted this year.


Scouts will be watching them play in a more relevant tournament. The Big East tournament, where you have to play 3 games in 3 nights,... the fatigue can be more then you get in the NCAA tournament where the schedule babies you, and the first weekend for a #1 seed is crappy opposition anyway.


----------



## speedythief

JuniorNoboa said:


> Scouts will be watching them play in a more relevant tournament. The Big East tournament, where you have to play 3 games in 3 nights,... the fatigue can be more then you get in the NCAA tournament where the schedule babies you, and the first weekend for a #1 seed is crappy opposition anyway.


I was talking about the Big East!


----------



## Dee-Zy

Budweiser_Boy said:


> LOL, where have you been? Denham Brown was a hot topic back in like... 2002, but not now. He's a decent scorer but is he really worth drafting, even with the Miami pick?


I've been under a rock, can somebody fill me in on this dude?


he was a hot pick in 2002? What happened? Why is he still playing college ball?


----------



## speedythief

Dee-Zy said:


> I've been under a rock, can somebody fill me in on this dude?
> 
> he was a hot pick in 2002? What happened? Why is he still playing college ball?


Brown has played pretty well for Team Canada but he's been really hot-and-cold at UConn. Probably won't be drafted but we'll wait and see on that.


----------



## trick

Duke fans, The Sports Guy gives your boy Redick some respect:


> Q: Come on, we're all waiting. Where do you stand on this whole J.J. Redick thing? -- Frank, Charlotte, N.C.
> 
> SG: Glad you asked. I have a few thoughts on this one ...
> 
> 1. If his name was "Joe Redick" or "Jimmy Redick," he wouldn't take nearly as much crap from anyone. Nobody wants to like a white kid named "J.J." It's one of those "I'm sorry, I have to hate you just out of principle" white sports names along the lines of "Chipper," "B.J." and "Christian."
> 
> 2. If he went anywhere else but Duke, he wouldn't take 9/10th's as much crap from anyone. Switch him with Mike Nardi and stick Redick on the bombs-away Villanova team and you know what would happen? Everyone would be raving about how much fun Redick is to watch. Unfortunately for J.J., everyone hates Duke and he's the quintessential Zabka-like kid Coach K always recruits, so we're already biased against him. We want him to blow out an ACL or break something crashing into a scorer's table. This isn't his fault.
> 
> 3. I don't care whether it's a lousy college hoops season or whether he's playing for a stacked Duke team: He's such a deadly shooter that (A) it's shocking when he misses a wide-open 3, and (B) he's one of those rare guys who can sink open 3s in any situation (even a 1-on-2 fast break), from any angle, anywhere on the court. There aren't five NBA players who have more confidence than Redick from 25 feet. I know it's practically sacrilegious to say, but I think he's immensely entertaining to watch. How often do you see a college kid with Cassell-like balls?
> 
> 4. Anyone who thinks that Redick -- on the right team, in the right offense, with shot blockers to protect him on defense -- cannot end up being an asset in the NBA is insane. Repeat: Insane. He's a better shooter than Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Jerry Sichting, Trent Tucker or Craig Hodges, all of whom had similar games and played roles for championship teams. I would actually compare his ceiling to Rip Hamilton's ceiling (who is almost as bad defensively, by the way); you could craft a decent offense from running Redick off multiple picks and getting him open shots.
> 
> I look at it this way: If you're an A-plus in any category, you're going to crack a 9-man rotation in the NBA, regardless of whether you have any other skills or not. Desagana Diop blocks shots, and that's all he does; Eddie House makes jumpers, and that's all he does; Carlos Delfino plays defense, and that's all he does; and all of those guys are contributing to 60-win teams right now. Redick is going to find the right team (maybe not right away), and he's going to make open 3s, and even if that's all he does, he'll be one of the best eight guys on the team. It's going to happen. The funny thing is, NBA scouts are always more enamored with multi-tool guys like Dunleavy and Darko who end up not being able to do anything that well. So those guys get drafted above guys like Redick, and then everyone is amazed when Redick turns out to be a better pro.


----------



## Dee-Zy

speedythief said:


> Brown has played pretty well for Team Canada but he's been really hot-and-cold at UConn. Probably won't be drafted but we'll wait and see on that.


so how come he wasn't picked when he was hot? (I'm guessin in 2002)


----------



## EduRiker

Tiago Splitter had ANOTHER great game playing away against top team Pamesa Valencia. Splitter was the main factor Tau won 87x79. 

Tiago had 21 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal and 1 block in 34 minutes. He shot 8-9 from the field and 5-6 from the FT line.


----------



## speedythief

Dee-Zy said:


> so how come he wasn't picked when he was hot? (I'm guessin in 2002)


He hasn't been projected as a first-rounder; mostly mid- to late-second, if on the board at all. Maybe he thinks each year he will improve his draft stock.


----------



## speedythief

EduRiker said:


> Tiago Splitter had ANOTHER great game playing away against top team Pamesa Valencia. Splitter was the main factor Tau won 87x79.
> 
> Tiago had 21 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal and 1 block in 34 minutes. He shot 8-9 from the field and 5-6 from the FT line.


Will he play in the NBA next season, though?


----------



## EduRiker

speedythief said:


> Will he play in the NBA next season, though?



Hopefully yes, but if I'd bet on it I 'd say no.


----------



## speedythief

Who watches Kansas play?
Anyone know anything about Brandon Rush?


----------



## Dee-Zy

Maybe we should draft Gay and Brown and rename the team Huskies


----------



## Team Mao

speedythief said:


> Who watches Kansas play?
> Anyone know anything about Brandon Rush?


Speedy, I've caught a few games and here is my take that I posted in another thread a while ago



> If the management team is determined not to draft a big man. Then I would look at Brandon Rush, a nice young athletic wing with a really nice shot, good (not great) handles and good defence. Watching him, I think a little of McGrady and I could see Rush developing a similar game (maybe not at the same level but still really good), both are lanky athletic guys who look super loose but can get to the basket strong and shoot the 3 at a good percentage.


I see more promise in this guy than either Carney or Brewer, although I've only seen a few of their games. His shot is much better than Brewer's and maybe Carney's and he's a really unselfish player (which really surprised me after what I had read about him during last year's draft. If the Raptors want a SG in the draft, then right now I think Rush should be the guy.


----------



## butr

I'm just going to throw this out there. I did it tongue in cheek in another thread, here less so.

Jerry Colangelo is in charge of USA basketball. Brian surely is helping him and talking with him on it. Jerry brings Duke HC Mike Krzyzewski aboard as HC for USA Basketball Men's team.

Brian traded for Kurt Thomas as an undersized C to stablise the frontcourt and open things up for the others.

This team from a purely statistical standpoint is in dire need of rebounding and interior D.

Given BC's relationship with coach K, I think there is a distinct possibility that he could see Shelden as a real possibility. MK has no bone to pick since he is a Senior.

This will come down to BC'c choice of course, however, he has a pipeline into the Duke clubhouse.


----------



## EduRiker

Here's a link to the top ten plays from the ACB. Splitter is #4 and #1. It's worth a look!

http://www.acb.com/menu.php?id=103

Click on Top10 Zona ACB

I know people dont like this comparison but man does he look like Pau Gasol!


----------



## Turkish Delight

Was anyone listenning to the Fan this morning with Jack Armstrong? 
Someone called in and was saying that the Raptors should definately draft Shelden Williams if they are at around 6-10. (If I didn't know better I would have thought it was butr. ) Anyways, Jack was saying how he likes Shelden's toughness, and rebounding, and he's a big reason why Duke is winning, but expected Shelden to go mid 1st round, maybe even in the 20 range. He said that he would definately not be worth 5th or 6th pick.


----------



## butr

Turkish Delight said:


> Was anyone listenning to the Fan this morning with Jack Armstrong?
> Someone called in and was saying that the Raptors should definately draft Shelden Williams if they are at around 6-10. (If I didn't know better I would have thought it was butr. ) Anyways, Jack was saying how he likes Shelden's toughness, and rebounding, and he's a big reason why Duke is winning, but expected Shelden to go mid 1st round, maybe even in the 20 range. He said that he would definately not be worth 5th or 6th pick.



There are no coincidences.


Well, I like Jack a lot. He knows a lot, but I don't think he keeps up with the prospects like we do or the big mock sites that are based on a consensus of talent evaluation by talent evaluators. Shelden is going to suffer from the "he's a senior with no upside who hasn't proven his offensive game for a perimeter oriented team."

That said, if Shelden goes outside the lottery I will be absofreakinglutely SHOCKED! We saw the run on bigs from Charlie on through after the main talent group was taken. Why would it be any different this year given the premium placed on size?

From 6-10 except for possibly Rodney Carney, I don't see anyone out there that will have the impact Shelden can have immediately, including Splitter, who I think stays at Tau anyhow.


Oh BTW Duke Lose! Duke Lose!

Ticky tack fouls on Sheldon and McRoberts screwed them from the start so says a close family member. Shelden still managed 20, 16 and 4. But don't take him, he has no upside.


----------



## shookem

anyone else heard the McRoberts may declare?


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> anyone else heard the McRoberts may declare?


That one will be tough. I think Duke would have to win for it to happen. While he would go 5-10, he could have gone to the NBA last year guaranteed with a 1st rounder. With everything involved from his parents, coach K, to the Duke name to the influence of the seniors that stayed, I think the chances of him declaring and staying in the draft are about 20%.


----------



## Benis007

Hate to admit it, but I like Shelden Williams better than I like Aldridge. We get a lot of Duke and UT games televised here in Texas, and based on what I have seen thus far this season, and especially what I saw last night, Shelden gives us more of what we need.

Aldridge has a definate edge when it comes to scoring touch. But Shelden will give us the banger that we need down low, a guy that can give us a couple blocks, a couple boards, and a big body that slides (very well) to help out defensively. 

Sign me up blowuptheraptors, i'm drinking the Shelden Williams koolaid.

- edit - i posted this in the wrong thread.. sorry about the double post.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

With Charlie looking good at the 3, I'm less and less desirous of Gay and Morrison (though I'd love either of course). I wish there was a great point guard in this draft but I'd also love to grab a complimentary 5- Splitter and Sheldon would both be one IMO. Contract issues cloud Splitter's draft status, leaving Sheldon as a guy that would make a difference in the middle. I'd love another wing athlete but I doubt the potential of guys like Carney to be game changers. 

Here's a question- with perimeter shooting from both our tall forwards, is there any great reason why we couldn't play Rudy Gay at the 2 (Charlie at the 3, Bosh at the 4)?


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> With Charlie looking good at the 3, I'm less and less desirous of Gay and Morrison (though I'd love either of course). I wish there was a great point guard in this draft but I'd also love to grab a complimentary 5- Splitter and Sheldon would both be one IMO. Contract issues cloud Splitter's draft status, leaving Sheldon as a guy that would make a difference in the middle. I'd love another wing athlete but I doubt the potential of guys like Carney to be game changers.
> 
> Here's a question- with perimeter shooting from both our tall forwards, is there any great reason why we couldn't play Rudy Gay at the 2 (Charlie at the 3, Bosh at the 4)?


That would be some insane size. Some people think he can play the 2. Most think he is a prototypical 3.


----------



## shookem

SkywalkerAC said:


> Here's a question- with perimeter shooting from both our tall forwards, *is there any great reason why we couldn't play Rudy Gay at the 2* (Charlie at the 3, Bosh at the 4)?


Yes, he is in no way a SG. Maybe he could try to convert to a SG after a couple of years in the league, but IMO, he's more of a three then Graham was coming out of college.


----------



## Benis007

Gay is going to slip on Draft Day.. mark my words


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> Gay is going to slip on Draft Day.. mark my words


Possibly, if Thomas and McRoberts declare.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

shookem said:


> Yes, he is in no way a SG. Maybe he could try to convert to a SG after a couple of years in the league, but IMO, he's more of a three then Graham was coming out of college.


Why? Knowledge of the position? Shooting ability? Or is it defensive issues? 

I would argue that he has the defensive potential to cover 3s. His outside shot is bound to improve. And he'll need NBA experience and plenty of learning regardless of position. 

When we were playing Mo at the 2 and Jalen at the 3, were their roles that much different? 

I also doubt that Gay would see much time at shooting guard as a rookie, let alone start there, but for most teams the two wing positions are interchangable. Having Charlie at the 3 changes that a little but I don't think Rudy is your typical forward either. If Ruben and Melo can start at the 2 and 3, why not Gay and Charlie?


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Benis007 said:


> Gay is going to slip on Draft Day.. mark my words


Gay won't slip out of the top 3 on draft day.. mark my words.


----------



## Benis007

vigilante said:


> Gay won't slip out of the top 3 on draft day.. mark my words.


care to put some uCash on that??

over/under Gay will get picked at 3.5


----------



## SickGame

Rudy Gay should slip based on his performances but he's won't due to raw talent alone.

I like Sheldon Williams but I'm still not convinced that he can bang around with NBA Centers. Sure he can do it in College but I don't know how well that will transfer in the NBA. He won't go any higher than 8th, that's my prediction.

Tiago would be awesome but he's probably going to stay at Tau.

Speaking of McRoberts, nbadraft.net has the raptors taking him with their fifth pick.


----------



## CrookedJ

SkywalkerAC said:


> With Charlie looking good at the 3, I'm less and less desirous of Gay and Morrison (though I'd love either of course). I wish there was a great point guard in this draft but I'd also love to grab a complimentary 5- Splitter and Sheldon would both be one IMO. Contract issues cloud Splitter's draft status, leaving Sheldon as a guy that would make a difference in the middle. I'd love another wing athlete but I doubt the potential of guys like Carney to be game changers.
> 
> Here's a question- with perimeter shooting from both our tall forwards, is there any great reason why we couldn't play Rudy Gay at the 2 (Charlie at the 3, Bosh at the 4)?


I think Rajon Rondo could end up being a great pg. I'd take him if we're in the 5-6 range. Does anyone actually know Splitter's contact/ buy out sitaution. Also, did he play with Jose at TAU??

My ranking of the prospects for TO: (need & BPA accounted for)
1. Aldridge (center)
2. Rudy Gay (can't pass up BPA) 
3. Spliter ( if he's coming next year)
4. Morrison (winner, great scorer, we'd find a place to use him)
5. Rondo ( our defense should start with the PG)
6. Bargnini ( talented but with Bosh & CV where do his minutes come)
7. Sheldon Williams - unless we have plan to go after a FA Center.

The swing men that I haven't seen 
Brewer, Rush , Roy, Carney - I don't know where to put these guys.

I really like Maurice Ager, but we'd have to aquire 15-25 pick to get him. I guess he could slip to 2nd round.


----------



## butr

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1222

Splitter talks of staying his full 4 year term. He has NO out clauses. Splitter will be at Tau's mercy for a buyout should he enter the draft.


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1222
> 
> Splitter talks of staying his full 4 year term. He has NO out clauses. Splitter will be at Tau's mercy for a buyout should he enter the draft.


sure, you could take it out of context like that.

The gist of the article was that he wanted to clear up what he said about staying in Tau.

He said only at the end of the season will he decide whether or not he will enter the draft, which is a pretty typical response from an athlete currently playing for another team.

Most American players won't come out and say they are declaring for the draft yet either, unless of course their seniors and about to be set out to the pastures.

It should also be noted that within the same article (different question) Splitter is ranked as the best center, ahead of Williams.

But hey, it's just mocks eh?


----------



## SkywalkerAC

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1222
> 
> Splitter talks of staying his full 4 year term. He has NO out clauses. Splitter will be at Tau's mercy for a buyout should he enter the draft.


As far as I know most players that come over from Euro teams don't have opt out clauses and have to negotiate full buyouts.


----------



## Benis007

2 things. 

1 - Mcnamara has been amazing these last 4 games of the Big East tournament. (4 wins by a total of 8 points)

2 - Anyone watching this BC/Duke game, I want you to watch Shelden Williams on the defensive end, check out his positioning when he is getting ready to contest a shot. The guy really is a tank and if he can do now in the NBA, without Aldrige on the board, this guy is our first pick.

you don't win friends with salad,

Benis


----------



## speedythief

Shelden isn't going to be able to camp in the paint in the NBA, either.


----------



## Benis007

speedythief said:


> Shelden isn't going to be able to camp in the paint in the NBA, either.


No but I think he is athletic enough to play the NBA game, watch him up and down the court, the guy is all out. 

Quite the motor.


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> No but I think he is athletic enough to play the NBA game, watch him up and down the court, the guy is all out.
> 
> Quite the motor.


He runs the floor well, but give O'Bryant another year and he'll be waaay better than Sheldon.


----------



## Benis007

I like Hansborough a lot too. Plus we haven't seen Oden play at the NCAA level.

pick your poison.


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> sure, you could take it out of context like that.
> 
> The gist of the article was that he wanted to clear up what he said about staying in Tau.
> 
> He said only at the end of the season will he decide whether or not he will enter the draft, which is a pretty typical response from an athlete currently playing for another team.
> 
> Most American players won't come out and say they are declaring for the draft yet either, unless of course their seniors and about to be set out to the pastures.
> 
> It should also be noted that within the same article (different question) Splitter is ranked as the best center, ahead of Williams.
> 
> But hey, it's just mocks eh?


And I'm sure Fran Vasquez was ahead of CV on most mocks as a prospect too.


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> He runs the floor well, but give O'Bryant another year and he'll be waaay better than Sheldon.


Hmm, big guy from a small school, sounds like a former 1st overall pick, and BUST from the deepest draft in a decade.


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> Hmm, big guy from a small school, sounds like a former 1st overall pick, and BUST from the deepest draft in a decade.


Still sounds better then a 6'9 center.

So wait, Rudy Gay is a 6'8 SF and Sheldon is supposed to be a center? That a really big inch.

Maybe Sheldon will have a growth spurt or learn another position...who knows?


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> Still sounds better then a 6'9 center.
> 
> So wait, Rudy Gay is a 6'8 SF and Sheldon is supposed to be a center? That a really big inch.
> 
> Maybe Sheldon will have a growth spurt or learn another position...who knows?



So Olowokandi is better than AD in his prime? Please be my GM.

What makes Ben Wallace a great Defensive player at 6-9 and makes SAR a soft 3 at the same height?


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> So Olowokandi is better than AD in his prime? Please be my GM.
> 
> What makes Ben Wallace a great Defensive player at 6-9 and makes SAR a soft 3 at the same height?


I think you've just used your own logic against yourself.



> Hmm, big guy from a small school, sounds like a former 1st overall pick, and BUST from the deepest draft in a decade.


If you shouldn't generalize smaller NBA centers, than you always shouldn't generalize small-school centers, right?

I don't have a problem with Sheldon and think he will be a servicable big man in the NBA. I think the weakness of this year's draft and lack of big players is causing Williams to be overvalued. I'd have no problem with taking him as a mid-to-high first-rounder, but as a top five player, no way.

He just doesn't have a high enough ceiling for a fifth overall pick.


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> I think you've just used your own logic against yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> If you shouldn't generalize smaller NBA centers, than you always shouldn't generalize small-school centers, right?
> 
> I don't have a problem with Sheldon and think he will be a servicable big man in the NBA. I think the weakness of this year's draft and lack of big players is causing Williams to be overvalued. I'd have no problem with taking him as a mid-to-high first-rounder, but as a top five player, no way.
> 
> He just doesn't have a high enough ceiling for a fifth overall pick.


So help me out. I'm talking about small schoolers that get hyped because they are big and put up big numbers v. minnows.

Alek Radojevic or however you spell his name. Kandi. Has anyone come hyped from a small school upfront and met or exceeded the hype? Help me out I don't know?

Because I know the smaller guys from great schools that overcame being underrated.


----------



## spuriousjones

noah's playing great. he's been a key determining factor in every game i've seen him play. the kid's got passion and is 'in the game' all game. he'd fit really well.


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> So help me out. I'm talking about small schoolers that get hyped because they are big and put up big numbers v. minnows.
> 
> Alek Radojevic or however you spell his name. Kandi. Has anyone come hyped from a small school upfront and met or exceeded the hype? Help me out I don't know?
> 
> Because I know the smaller guys from great schools that overcame being underrated.


It depends what you call a small school.

Is Georgetown a small school, UCLA, BYU? What is a small school.

Are the only big schools in the ACC?

Because if you're saying in the history of basketball that a seven-foot athlete has never came from a small(er) school to do well in the NBA and the only proof you have in that you can't think of them.....


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> It depends what you call a small school.
> 
> Is Georgetown a small school, UCLA, BYU? What is a small school.
> 
> Are the only big schools in the ACC?
> 
> Because if you're saying in the history of basketball that a seven-foot athlete has never came from a small(er) school to do well in the NBA and the only proof you have in that you can't think of them.....


No, I'm saying has a kid from a small school ever lived up to the hype as a frontcourt player. Oakley and Ben cam from Virginia Union, but I don't remember much ballyhoo about them. I'm talking about a kid from Pacific that goes number one and looking back, earned that spot, or was even close to earning it.

Small program, not a top 25er, not it the tourney, in a weak conference, etc.

Ewing, Zo, Kareem certainly don't count.


----------



## shookem

I really think you (not you BUTR, but you as in we) need to look at prospects case-by-case.

O'Bryant shouldn't be compared to anyone else, neither should Sheldon, really.


I mean, if Sheldon can defy everybody with being a small center, why couldn't O'Byrant overcome the small-school hype?


----------



## AirBonner

Duke VS Miami
STARTERS MIN FGM-A FTM-A OFF REB AST PF PTS 
A. King, 25 3-8 10-12 9 11 0 3 16 
S. Williams, 38 4-9 6-10 5 13 1 3 14 

Duke VS Wake Forest
E. Williams, 37 9-12 5-7 6 12 0 2 23 
S. Williams, 28 4-6 4-5 1 5 0 3 12 

Duke VS Boston College
C. Smith, 40 8-16 3-5 2 10 7 3 19 
S. Williams, 37 7-14 4-5 0 8 0 3 18 


I just don't get the Shelden hype. He has been matched or outplayed by guys who 
are going to be second round picks if they are drafted at all. Another example that I 
quoted earlier was when he got demoed by Marco Killingsworth earlier this year against
Indiana. What exactly is it that makes this guy so good and why can't he consistently 
dominate other legit college Cs?


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> I really think you (not you BUTR, but you as in we) need to look at prospects case-by-case.
> 
> O'Bryant shouldn't be compared to anyone else, neither should Sheldon, really.
> 
> 
> I mean, if Sheldon can defy everybody with being a small center, why couldn't O'Byrant overcome the small-school hype?


Very true.


----------



## butr

AirBonner said:


> Duke VS Miami
> STARTERS MIN FGM-A FTM-A OFF REB AST PF PTS
> A. King, 25 3-8 10-12 9 11 0 3 16
> S. Williams, 38 4-9 6-10 5 13 1 3 14
> 
> Duke VS Wake Forest
> E. Williams, 37 9-12 5-7 6 12 0 2 23
> S. Williams, 28 4-6 4-5 1 5 0 3 12
> 
> Duke VS Boston College
> C. Smith, 40 8-16 3-5 2 10 7 3 19
> S. Williams, 37 7-14 4-5 0 8 0 3 18
> 
> 
> I just don't get the Shelden hype. He has been matched or outplayed by guys who
> are going to be second round picks if they are drafted at all. Another example that I
> quoted earlier was when he got demoed by Marco Killingsworth earlier this year against
> Indiana. What exactly is it that makes this guy so good and why can't he consistently
> dominate other legit college Cs?



Why don't you quote the games where he gets 15 boards or 10 blocks? Because they are anomolies to the positive. As I've stated earlier, IF someone has a great game inside vs. DUKE it come down to two things.

1) Duke is the watermark, the one game, one opponent where players go over their head because they get up for the game.

2) Shelden is left on an island. Read any scouting report. Duke is all about the 3, defending and scoring, they would prefer to let a 2 go rather than a 3. So, consequently Shelden often gets no help or is left to defend a 2 on 1. Thus, points from interior opponents get boosted. So while box scores are nice, you need to watch a game or 30 to realise this.

People talk about players out of Duke and whether they can make it without the system. I think that question is valid for perimeter players because the system is made for them. To me interior players at Duke are not subject to that question because they succeed where they are put in a state of vulnerability.

As for the hype. There is no Shelden hype. I'm the only one really talking about him. 

Listen, the chances of him being a Rap are about 5-10%. He is going to be the kind of player we are lacking. I don't know about you, but every time I see the Raps give up 4 consecutive offensive rebounds on one trip, I think we need help. Considering the price of a centre on the FA market, and who is out there, he is IMO the best alternative. So far I'm in the minority except for 2 other guys.


----------



## speedythief

^ Shelden reminded me of JYD the other day, running around out on the perimeter diving/gambling for steals.


----------



## butr

speedythief said:


> ^ Shelden reminded me of JYD the other day, running around out on the perimeter diving/gambling for steals.


He does not gamble to shoot the gap too often, since he is out top rarely, but he is often on the deck.


----------



## ballocks

i think shelden's flying way under the radar myself. i don't know if i fully expect him to be down there come draft night.

personally, i'd love for the raptors to get him. everything seems to 'fit'- he's the same age as chris and charlie, he's mature and ready, fully developed (for a collegian), not to mention the duke program itself. blue devils haven't always been successful in the L, but i think that might have more to do with overhype/_overexpectation_ than anything else.

and there are a couple of other factors for me: do we want a project, or something close to it, right now? i don't. i think that stage has passed us by. chris has been on this side of the fence for three years, mop for more, and there's little reason for them to wait any longer. i like how players of shelden's calibre would just fit, and help immediately. low-maintenance. projects can be good too, don't get me wrong, but i wouldn't really want one on our team right now.

moreover, i personally don't think we need another star player. you can, in some cases, certainly have too many. i'm comfortable riding chris in the driver's seat right now, with that being our biggest 'gamble' (injury, etc.), while the rest of us find a way to fit around him. considering our dire need of help on the glass and defense, shelden would already have a role he's been proven to fill in college. the risk is low with players like him, and while the reward is also relatively lower, i'm more risk averse these days than i was in 2004. we don't necessarily need the big payoff anymore- we just need more dough.

some people can complain about him not being 7'0/280, but it really doesn't matter to me. players like him can play ball. i don't know why other fans seem to need a monster in the middle- i just want a capable player who's young, who's proven, who's had some success, who can be taught the ins and outs, who won't be striving to be the second coming. other teams can get the superstars now, i just want guys who can play with the team we have. shelden williams can play, man (imo).

theo ratliff comes to mind, not as a relevant peer, but as a fly-swatting beast. and 'short'. has theo had much trouble in the pros? not really. has he been too short? not really. and to be honest, i think we could use a player like theo circa 1998 on the raptors. he won't win any games alone, but he'll settle you down. his game will settle you down. his sheer presence will allow your gamebreakers more room and more time.

shelden isn't the only man i'm watching right now but he's near the top. i'm not looking for superstars, i'm just looking for the right intangibles. i think shelden has them. i hope some other players do, too.

peace


----------



## AirBonner

blowuptheraptors said:


> Why don't you quote the games where he gets 15 boards or 10 blocks? Because they are anomolies to the positive. As I've stated earlier, IF someone has a great game inside vs. DUKE it come down to two things.
> 
> 1) Duke is the watermark, the one game, one opponent where players go over their head because they get up for the game.
> 
> 2) Shelden is left on an island. Read any scouting report. Duke is all about the 3, defending and scoring, they would prefer to let a 2 go rather than a 3. So, consequently Shelden often gets no help or is left to defend a 2 on 1. Thus, points from interior opponents get boosted. So while box scores are nice, you need to watch a game or 30 to realise this.
> 
> People talk about players out of Duke and whether they can make it without the system. I think that question is valid for perimeter players because the system is made for them. To me interior players at Duke are not subject to that question because they succeed where they are put in a state of vulnerability.
> 
> As for the hype. There is no Shelden hype. I'm the only one really talking about him.
> 
> Listen, the chances of him being a Rap are about 5-10%. He is going to be the kind of player we are lacking. I don't know about you, but every time I see the Raps give up 4 consecutive rebounds on one trip, I think we need help. Considering the price of a centre on the FA market, and who is out there, he is IMO the best alternative. So far I'm in the minority except for 2 other guys.


The reason I quoted the games I did was because they are games where he went up against guys that could be considered legitimate college Cs .... not even legit NBA caliber 5s. Furthermore, an NBA caliber college player shoulldn't need help to play effective 1 on 1 defence against other college centers. A guy who is a lottery pick should be able to be dominate against any opposition on at least one side of the court if not both. 

Secondly, saying that players play better or harder against duke then they do against anyone else is purely conjecture. Even if it is true, sheldon not matching their intensity level doesn't justify a poor performance on his part.


----------



## Benis007

What do you guys think about the 7 footer from Florida Joaquin Noah?


----------



## butr

AirBonner said:


> The reason I quoted the games I did was because they are games where he went up against guys that could be considered legitimate college Cs .... not even legit NBA caliber 5s. Furthermore, an NBA caliber college player shoulldn't need help to play effective 1 on 1 defence against other college centers. A guy who is a lottery pick should be able to be dominate against any opposition on at least one side of the court if not both.
> 
> Secondly, saying that players play better or harder against duke then they do against anyone else is purely conjecture. Even if it is true, sheldon not matching their intensity level doesn't justify a poor performance on his part.


There are no legit NBA C's out there. But you ignored my comments completely about the style of game Duke plays. I don't care who you are. Plug X player into Duke's system down low and he will get points put up on him. Plus you assume Shelden was on him for all of those points, rather than Melchioni or McRoberts.

Bottom line is Duke is the #1 team in the country, if you wanna argue about Villanova or UCONN, fine, guaranteed top 3. Where are they without Shelden Williams in the middle? Duke cannot play their game the way they have.

Go watch about 5 game tapes and come back and talk about him rather than just using box scores as your evidence. I'm not trying to be an ***, but if you just look at the stats against in this case (and in a lot of others) you don't get the whole picture.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Sheldon is one of the only players comforting me when considering not getting a top 4 pick. Splitter would be too if not for the buyout and the possibility of him staying with Tau for at least a season. I don't even want a big that badly but I'd like one of those two.


----------



## speedythief

Benis007 said:


> What do you guys think about the 7 footer from Florida Joaquin Noah?


He's just a freshman isn't he? I don't know if we want someone we have to wait on.

What about Justin Williams, aka Theo Ratliff Jr.?


----------



## shookem

blowuptheraptors said:


> Bottom line is Duke is the #1 team in the country, if you wanna argue about Villanova or UCONN, fine, guaranteed top 3.


What'd you say about UCONN? Watch your mouth mister, players are one things, schools are another....
jk.



> What do you guys think about the 7 footer from Florida Joaquin Noah?


I haven't seen him, but everything I've heard has been bad.


----------



## spuriousjones

Benis007 said:


> What do you guys think about the 7 footer from Florida Joaquin Noah?


i'd just written about him earlier in the thread (here 

i've seen him now a few times (about as many times as aldridge and sheldon) he's been the most impressive centre i've seen so far. the kid has a real passion for the game. he runs really well, has a great motor and plays a lot tougher than his frame would suggest. if you put his heart in aldridge's body you'd have an easy consensus no.1.

he's long, athletic, all-game hustle player. he's a bit marcus camby, chris anderson, jyd but he should have a better offensive game than all of them.

i don't know if he's a genuine 7feet. and his frame looks like it'll be a challence to put on weight (rounded shoulders, too). but i'd be plenty happy with him. like i said, i've been more impressed with he than aldridge and sheldon. splitter has the advantage over him in fundamentals, but i'd give noah the intensity edge. he has a fire that we could really use.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Brandon Roy? He's not the next Wade but we could use a versatile SG that can "do it all". I'd like a little more length on the wing of course but some slashing and ballhandling would be nice too. Also has some PG potential. A Marquis Daniels type?

And I really want to know what the deal with Splitter might be. He said he intends on honouring his contract with Tau? If so, why is he even on the mocks? Euro buyouts aren't actually that hard to negotiate from what I've seen.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

spuriousjones said:


> i'd just written about him earlier in the thread (here
> 
> i've seen him now a few times (about as many times as aldridge and sheldon) he's been the most impressive centre i've seen so far. the kid has a real passion for the game. he runs really well, has a great motor and plays a lot tougher than his frame would suggest. if you put his heart in aldridge's body you'd have an easy consensus no.1.
> 
> he's long, athletic, all-game hustle player. he's a bit marcus camby, chris anderson, jyd but he should have a better offensive game than all of them.
> 
> i don't know if he's a genuine 7feet. and his frame looks like it'll be a challence to put on weight (rounded shoulders, too). but i'd be plenty happy with him. like i said, i've been more impressed with he than aldridge and sheldon. splitter has the advantage over him in fundamentals, but i'd give noah the intensity edge. he has a fire that we could really use.


Sounds similar to Anderson Varejao?


----------



## shookem

SkywalkerAC said:


> And I really want to know what the deal with Splitter might be. He said he intends on honouring his contract with Tau? If so, why is he even on the mocks? Euro buyouts aren't actually that hard to negotiate from what I've seen.


He only said that he would decide what to do after the season. He stills plays for Tau, it would be ackward if he said anything else. Has Bargnani declared?


----------



## SkywalkerAC

shookem said:


> He only said that he would decide what to do after the season. He stills plays for Tau, it would be ackward if he said anything else. Has Bargnani declared?


No. Don't think so. I just haven't heard the same kind of contract concerns with Bennetton. I think the Splitter contract issue will be okay and that provides 3 top 5 big men, not too shabby in most drafts. 

I'm so torn on whether I want another big from this draft. Is Charlie at the 3 really the way to go long term?


----------



## spuriousjones

SkywalkerAC said:


> Sounds similar to Anderson Varejao?


actually, not a bad comparison--even has the hair. picture av with more intensity, seemingly more often in the right place, and a better shot blocker. he's thinner but i think he runs the floor better. with more muscle, he should still be as quick as varejao. noah just has this intaniable thing about him...the way a guy with fire can ignite his team...the more i think about him, the more comfortable i am with us picking him regardless of where we land in the lottery.


----------



## Team Mao

This is a trade related to the draft, so I figured I could put it here. I'm really not sold on the top 5 of the draft filling the needs of the team, plus it's known that I think the Raptors are in serious need of a starting calibre pass-first PG, preferrably young. The trade involves James S&T so it would have to take place after the draft (but of course be agreed upon before the draft), when we are able to re-sign players.

The Teams: Utah and Toronto

Toronto Trades:
Mike James (S&T)
First round pick 2006 (if it is outside the top 3), we pick on their instruction
Hoffa (if Jerry wants a new Ostertag)

Utah Trades:
Deron Williams
First round pick 2006 (looks like 15 now)

Why?
For Toronto: The Raptors get a young, tough pass-first point guard, and will be able to pick up a Hilton Armstrong, Josh Boone, Williams or Noah at the Utah pick (perfect guys to backup PF/C). After the trade and signing one of the bigs, our roster might look like this:

PG-Williams, Calderon, FA
SG-Peterson, Graham, Brown(2nd rd)
SF-Villianueva, Graham, Brown(2nd rd)
PF- Bosh, Villanueva, 1st rd pick, Sow
C- Nene, Nazr or Przy, 1st rd pick (Armstrong, Boone, Williams, or Noah), Sow

For Utah: They get a PG who loves the pick and roll and seems old enough to get minutes playing for Jerry Sloan. What they give up between Williams and James is made up for by moving up in the draft. They move up in the draft where they could pick up a PF (McRoberts is white, he'd be perfect for Utah) or or a wing like Roy.

PG- James, McCleod
SG- Brown, Giricek, CJ Miles
SF-AK, Harpring
PF- McRoberts, Humphries
C- Okur, Whaley, Araujo
Plus whoever they nab when they trade away Boozer in the offseason

I think that it's a decent deal, but I'm sure there are those who don't so let me have it.


----------



## Benis007

^^

I like the idea


----------



## shookem

I really doubt Sloan would let Williams leave.

And you gotta love trades that include Hoffa, someone with the trade value of a bag of chips.


----------



## Benis007

I like Deron a lot. Not the shooter that James is but he has a nice touch.

I think we can all agree that Noah is going to be a stretch at our pick.


----------



## AirBonner

blowuptheraptors said:


> There are no legit NBA C's out there. But you ignored my comments completely about the style of game Duke plays. I don't care who you are. .


Sheldon's rebound numbers should not be predicated by Duke style of play. Furthermore he gets a similar FGA as the other players.



blowuptheraptors said:


> Plug X player into Duke's system down low and he will get points put up on him. Plus you assume Shelden was on him for all of those points, rather than Melchioni or McRoberts.


Matchups work 2 ways. All the points Shelden scores are not against the players I quoted but the reason they are quoted is because they are playing in opposition for the majority of the game. 



blowuptheraptors said:


> Go watch about 5 game tapes and come back and talk about him rather than just using box scores as your evidence. I'm not trying to be an ***, but if you just look at the stats against in this case (and in a lot of others) you don't get the whole picture.


Off the top of my head I can think of 7 Duke games I watched this season ... including each of those where i quoted the box score. I saw the games I quoted and used them to rate the performances accordingly. I really didn't see any huge intangibles that make up the 'whole picture'. 

Anyways, this is my last post about Shelden Williams for a while I feel like this is just like beating a dead horse.


----------



## butr

AirBonner said:


> Anyways, this is my last post about Shelden Williams for a while I feel like this is just like beating a dead horse.


This goes both ways too.


----------



## Benis007

Shelden who?


----------



## Team Mao

shookem said:


> I really doubt Sloan would let Williams leave.
> 
> And you gotta love trades that include Hoffa, someone with the trade value of a bag of chips.





> Hoffa (if Jerry wants a new Ostertag)


Often, comments such as 'if Jerry wants a new Ostertag' are meant to be taken lightly. How about we toss in a Bonner?


----------



## shookem

I just don't think Hoffa has a lot of trade value right now, if he ever did.


----------



## Benis007

You never know. You can't teach height.

There might be someone out there who thinks they can teach him to compete at this level. He has the physical tools.

Just nothing else.


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> You never know. You can't teach height.
> 
> There might be someone out there who thinks they can teach him to compete at this level. He has the physical tools.
> 
> Just nothing else.


True, but when you consider what Darko was traded for and how much more potential Darko has in comparision to Hoff, I doubt Hoffa gets the Raps anything of value.


----------



## Benis007

would you trade Hoffa for a 2nd rounder


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> would you trade Hoffa for a 2nd rounder


Sure, I take a second rounder for hoff.


----------



## Team Mao

shookem said:


> I just don't think Hoffa has a lot of trade value right now, if he ever did.


Again, the Hoffa comment was made in jest. 'If Jerry wants another Ostertag'


----------



## shookem

Team Mao said:


> Again, the Hoffa comment was made in jest. 'If Jerry wants another Ostertag'


yeah I know, I'd love it if Hoffa turned out to be another Ostertag, that guy had some good seasons.


----------



## Benis007

sad to think that a lottery pick is worth a 2nd rounder two seasons later.


----------



## Team Mao

shookem said:


> Sure, I take a second rounder for hoff.


What about Hoffa and our high second for a pick around the low 20s?


----------



## Benis007

Team Mao said:


> What about Hoffa and our high second for a pick around the low 20s?


done and done

what do you guys think about Josh McRoberts with our 1st rounder?


----------



## butr

Benis007 said:


> done and done
> 
> what do you guys think about Josh McRoberts with our 1st rounder?


Unless Duke win, I'd say he stays in school.

SW 29, 18 & 4 v lowly Southern


----------



## Benis007

blowuptheraptors said:


> Unless Duke win, I'd say he stays in school.
> 
> SW 29, 18 & 4 v lowly Southern


only reason i brought it up is NBAdraft.net has us slotted as taking him.

i see McRoberts as being a less mobile Bosh. Big man with an inside out game.


----------



## CrookedJ

Benis007 said:


> only reason i brought it up is NBAdraft.net has us slotted as taking him.
> 
> i see McRoberts as being a less mobile Bosh. Big man with an inside out game.


He's a good player, but kind of redundant on this team. I think NBA . net ( and other draft sites) only rank their picks at this point in time. They will probably start looking at team needs after the lottery.

I would doubt we take McRoberts unless Charlie is benig shipped off somewhere else. Unless he can play center ( ie defend center) He is listed at 245, so he has the size.

Anyone seen Noah play from Florida??


----------



## Benis007

CrookedJ said:


> He's a good player, but kind of redundant on this team. I think NBA . net ( and other draft sites) only rank their picks at this point in time. They will probably start looking at team needs after the lottery.
> 
> I would doubt we take McRoberts unless Charlie is benig shipped off somewhere else. Unless he can play center ( ie defend center) He is listed at 245, so he has the size.
> 
> Anyone seen Noah play from Florida??


yeah I think Noah is a lot more raw than everyone thinks. He's got the height but needs to bulk up, and he doesn't make big plays on a consistent basis. I think he disapears at times on the court.


----------



## butr

Ronnie Brewer certainly did not help his stock in the tourney. He'll have to rely on his workouts to boost that stock.


http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/5415934

Here is a link to a list of 10 names and scout's comments. The less noted names of the draft to watch.


----------



## butr

17, 14 and 7 and 9/9 FT. Lets see Mags do that.


----------



## SickGame

Noah has been great so far in the tournament. He makes the players around him better, has good shot blocking instincts, runs the floor really well for a big man and passes well. His shooting is raw and his post game is ok, but he's got alot of upside, alot more than I thought.

Brandon Roy was just terrific today vs Illinois. Solid player.


----------



## spuriousjones

noah's been great all season; stepping it up even moreso as games become more important; and he's starting to get some serious notice. so much so, i'm concerned he may not be on the board when we pick. noah has the type of intensity that pushed kmart to the top spot. media is sitting up and taking notice. an example from cbs: Noah goes from buried on bench to lottery pick 

as i've been saying, noah's impressed me more than any other player this year.


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

Supposedly, Kevin McHale is in love with Joakim Noah. He was at the game yesterday scouting him and other Florida players (Al Horford, Corey Brewer). If he comes out this year, he's a top 5 pick, if not top 3. No other big man, not even Lamarcus Aldridge, possesses the skill set he has. He runs the floor better than any big man, is a terrific passer, excellent shot blocker, has tremendous court vision and instincts, and has a huge motor.


----------



## speedythief

^ I think McRoberts is a better prospect. He has great instincts and he is a superior offensive player. He isn't such a good shot blocker and isn't as mobile. To say that no other player has Noah's skill set is a stretch.

Noah has been good but I'm not sold on his body for the centre position in the NBA.


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

speedythief said:


> ^ I think McRoberts is a better prospect. He has great instincts and he is a superior offensive player. He isn't such a good shot blocker and isn't as mobile. To say that no other player has Noah's skill set is a stretch.
> 
> Noah has been good but I'm not sold on his body for the centre position in the NBA.


We'll agree to disagree.


----------



## NeoSamurai

YoYoYoWasup said:


> Supposedly, Kevin McHale is in love with Joakim Noah. He was at the game yesterday scouting him and other Florida players (Al Horford, Corey Brewer). If he comes out this year, he's a top 5 pick, if not top 3. No other big man, not even Lamarcus Aldridge, possesses the skill set he has. He runs the floor better than any big man, is a terrific passer, excellent shot blocker, has tremendous court vision and instincts, and has a huge motor.


i agree he has a great game to him, but like speedy im not sold on his body to play the 5 in the pros...more than likely he'll be pegged into the 4 spot, but even a frontline of bosh, noah, and charlie would be as athletic, tall and lengthy as any other frontline in the league...


----------



## speedythief

YoYoYoWasup said:


> We'll agree to disagree.


I won't agree to that.


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

speedythief said:


> I won't agree to that.


 :argue:


----------



## aizn

whose loving denham brown for our second rounder? that would b a steal.


----------



## MonkeyBallZJr

aizn said:


> whose loving denham brown for our second rounder? that would b a steal.


I'm gonna start a Denham Brown fan club, want in?


----------



## aizn

Original ScarFace said:


> I'm gonna start a Denham Brown fan club, want in?


yea man. i'd b in for sure.


----------



## butr

NeoSamurai said:


> i agree he has a great game to him, but like speedy im not sold on his body to play the 5 in the pros...more than likely he'll be pegged into the 4 spot, but even a frontline of bosh, noah, and charlie would be as athletic, tall and lengthy as any other frontline in the league...


Reminds me of what's his name, Varejao. I would not say he is top 5. He is nowhere on the mocks yet, not that that means anything.


----------



## Benis007

Original ScarFace said:


> I'm gonna start a Denham Brown fan club, want in?


count me in.

As for Noah, i agree with the previous posts regarding his skill set and his lack of a big body.

we need a banger down low.we need a tank.


----------



## aizn

quick question. what is everyone's knock on allan ray?

by the looks of it, he's got some serious skill. i mean, sure his potential is limited, but u kno wat you're gonna get from him. i juss absolutely love this guys game.


----------



## speedythief

^ He is an undersized SG without much passing ability and there are few guys like that who can stick in the NBA. Maybe he can be a Juan Dixon with a little more defensive passion.


----------



## aizn

wat about mike james comparison? mike james isn't really that great of a passer, but he'd be undersized if he were a 2 guard.


----------



## Team Mao

I think if Aldridge or Splitter are not available with our pick, then we should look to trade down. Maybe NO would be interested in their two picks for our 1st and 2nd? I'm just not sold on any of the wings moving MoPete or Charlie out of the starting lineup and Joey is starting to look like a very capable backup.

Plus, with the performances they're having, I think it is likely that Hibbert, Noah and O'Bryant will declare for the draft this year (if not all, at least 2 of them). One of those three, or guys like Armstrong, and Boone will be available late lotto/mid-teens. I wouldn't expect these guys to step in right away and start but if we were to sign a PF/C like Wilcox (who Colangelo is said to have been interested in while with Phoenix), then Wilcox could be the starter for a year or two, then move to the bench to backup the 4/5 if the draft pick develops into a starting calibre centre.

If we could get NO's to picks (me dreaming), we would also be able to pick up a point guard like Marcus Williams or Mardy Collins. Both of whom, IMO, are great playmakers and could develop into starters within a few seasons.

*Does anyone else think of Gadzuric when they see Noah?


----------



## SickGame

Ray's okay but doesn't deserve to go in the first round. He's a great shooter but is pretty small to be effective as a SG in the NBA. Can't play PG because a lack of vision and doesn't pass very well from what I've read and seen. I'd take Foye over Ray in an instant. 
Did anyone else see some of the blocks by Sullinger in Ohio State game vs Georgetown? What an athlete, not that I think he can make it in the NBA, but he just had two monster blocks, one of them being one of the hardest blocks into the backboard I've ever seen.


----------



## SickGame

If we could somehow get our hands on Marcus Williams, it would be brilliant. Great vision, great passing, can shoot the ball and create for himself if he needs to, breaks defenses easily.
It's too bad he's quite small but he's worth the gamble in my opinion, not to mention he's only a sophomore. And I don't think he'll be a character/locker room issue, I think the laptop thing was more influenced/masterminded by A.J. Price(I think that was his name) than Williams. He looks like a good kid.


----------



## Team Mao

SickGame said:


> If we could somehow get our hands on Marcus Williams, it would be brilliant. Great vision, great passing, can shoot the ball and create for himself if he needs to, breaks defenses easily.
> It's too bad he's quite small but he's worth the gamble in my opinion, not to mention he's only a sophomore. And I don't think he'll be a character/locker room issue, I think the laptop thing was more influenced/masterminded by A.J. Price(I think that was his name) than Williams. He looks like a good kid.


Everywhere I've seen Williams listed, it's been 6'3" , 200lbs. I wouldn't say he's small at all.


----------



## SickGame

Team Mao said:


> Everywhere I've seen Williams listed, it's been 6'3" , 200lbs. I wouldn't say he's small at all.


He's listed as 6'2" and 200lbs but I doubt that's accurate. He looks more like 6 feet or 6'1" and 190 lbs or so. Yet size shouldn't be taken that much into account. As you've seen, focusing too much on size can be costly (ex: Deron Willams over Chris Paul)


----------



## MjM2xtreMe

MItchell scouting Madness. He likes Morrison and Redick because they have improved since freshman. A strategy he uses to juidge them is to find their weakness and see if they can overcome it.



> "With Morrison and Redick when you look at them, you try to find things to make you not like them and I don't say that in a bad way," said Mitchell. "(Then) when you watch them play (and) they get it done.
> 
> "The thing I like about both of those guys is from their freshman years, they both have gotten better every year. That's what you want to see in a player, are they getting better every year. Are they becoming a better rebounder, a better passer, a better defender and both of those guys are doing that."


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...070&call_pageid=969907729483&col=970081562040


----------



## butr

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...1,4451093.story?page=3&coll=cs-home-headlines

I hate Sam Smith but this is reporting not a rumour out of his arse. The more I hear about this draft the more I want to trade down 2 for 1 with NO/OK.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...1,4451093.story?page=3&coll=cs-home-headlines
> 
> I hate Sam Smith but this is reporting not a rumour out of his arse. The more I hear about this draft the more I want to trade down 2 for 1 with NO/OK.


I was going to question whether this draft has the depth to make this a good idea but with it does look like it's overall depth is better than it's first tier depth. 

Would be great if we could land the Landlord AND a decent point guard but I really don't think Shelden is going to fall past the lottery (after his standing reach is officially measured at over 9'1).


----------



## JuniorNoboa

SickGame said:


> *And I don't think he'll be a character/locker room issue, I think the laptop thing was more influenced/masterminded by A.J. Price *(I think that was his name) than Williams. He looks like a good kid.



Wouldn't be becuase "Honest" Jim sold out AJ to protect Marcus.


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> I was going to question whether this draft has the depth to make this a good idea but with it does look like it's overall depth is better than it's first tier depth.
> 
> Would be great if we could land the Landlord AND a decent point guard but I really don't think Shelden is going to fall past the lottery (after his standing reach is officially measured at over 9'1).


Based on .net and the jerk's article, he is not where you and I think he should be. F them, they want to let him slip, get him and Marcus too. .net, the NO/OK picks would get them both.

Shelden AND Marcus OR one of Morrison, Gay, Aldridge, Bargnani assuming we get "lucky"

I know what I'd rather have. Start putting first names on the backs of Jerseys.


----------



## SickGame

JuniorNoboa said:


> Wouldn't be becuase "Honest" Jim sold out AJ to protect Marcus.


Probably. AJ Price was pretty much worthless to the team by that time.


----------



## aizn

wat if somehow we were able to draft gay, williams, AND brown? that would b crazy.


----------



## butr

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney06/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2374408

"Shelden's presence changed shots," GW's Danilo Pinnock said. "He changes just about everything in the game. He definitely deserves the title as the best big man in the country. He's definitely just as important to their team as J.J. Don't get me wrong -- J.J. is the best player in the country -- but Shelden is the best defensive player."


----------



## SickGame

All this shelden stuff just makes really want him to absolutely tank as a pro. Not that I have anything against the guy as a player or as a person, but I just hate Duke and their inane blind love for their own players.
But I don't like wishing misfortune on anyone....thefeore, I hope he tanks as a pro and becomes the best low post player in Europe then gets a second chance in the NBA in 7 years and does ok.


----------



## butr

I on the other hand am not so magnanimous.


----------



## Ballyhoo

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...1,4451093.story?page=3&coll=cs-home-headlines
> 
> I hate Sam Smith but this is reporting not a rumour out of his arse. The more I hear about this draft the more I want to trade down 2 for 1 with NO/OK.


Or ideally, if we win #1 do you trade down with the Bulls for say 3 and 12? Those lotto balls are going to be pivotal, as usual. The Raptors are due for some lotto luck...


----------



## butr

Ballyhoo said:


> Or ideally, if we win #1 do you trade down with the Bulls for say 3 and 12? Those lotto balls are going to be pivotal, as usual. The Raptors are due for some lotto luck...


 :swammi:


----------



## Benis007

Ballyhoo said:


> Or ideally, if we win #1 do you trade down with the Bulls for say 3 and 12? Those lotto balls are going to be pivotal, as usual. The Raptors are due for some lotto luck...


I would rather get Adridge with the 1st pick then trade down.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Sounds like Splitter is going to be playing with Tau next season. He may still be in the draft but he won't be coming over right away. If he isn't in the draft, he's a free agent the following summer isn't he? That could get very interesting and would probably make monetary sense for him (and of course he'd get to choose his team). If he does become a free agent, it give BC more reason to wait with our cap space.


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> Sounds like Splitter is going to be playing with Tau next season. He may still be in the draft but he won't be coming over right away. If he isn't in the draft, he's a free agent the following summer isn't he? That could get very interesting and would probably make monetary sense for him (and of course he'd get to choose his team). If he does become a free agent, it give BC more reason to wait with our cap space.


How old do you have to be to become a FA, like Jose? 

Honestly, with the Vasquez issue and buyout issue, I don't think there is any way a team uses a top 10 pick on this kind of question mark. Only winning teams that could be patient would take him. But if he is so close to being a FA, just stay out for another year to keep yourself away from a late round rookie deal.

Edit: The only way I think he goes top 10 is if the team that drafts him is 100% sure through conversations with him and Tau that A) he will come and B) Tau will agree to a reasonable buyout. But for some reason, these conversations seem hard to come by.


----------



## shookem

More and more I'm begining to like the other guy in your avatar BUTR, the taller guy.

I would not be upset if somehow the Raptors drafted Josh McRoberts.

A frontcourt of Bosh/McRoberts/Villanueva is something, I think, would rock the league.

I would definatly draft McRoberts over whatever center of the week is hot right now, assuming Splitter is going to screw the Raps over.

It's too bad we don't have a mid-round pick anymore, I know it's for the greater good, but I'd love a shot at Sheldon Williams with a pick other then our first.


----------



## butr

shookem said:


> More and more I'm begining to like the other guy in your avatar BUTR, the taller guy.
> 
> I would not be upset if somehow the Raptors drafted Josh McRoberts.
> 
> A frontcourt of Bosh/McRoberts/Villanueva is something, I think, would rock the league.
> 
> I would definatly draft McRoberts over whatever center of the week is hot right now, assuming Splitter is going to screw the Raps over.
> 
> It's too bad we don't have a mid-round pick anymore, I know it's for the greater good, but I'd love a shot at Sheldon Williams with a pick other then our first.


He has a nice game, but I don't know that him in the mix with Bosh and CV3 would work. He is fairly slight. While I like him, a lot, I don't think he fits WITH both of them.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Overrated 

a) Williams
b) Duke
c) reddick
d) all of the above.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> He has a nice game, but I don't know that him in the mix with Bosh and CV3 would work. He is fairly slight. While I like him, a lot, I don't think he fits WITH both of them.


Actually he's not slight at all for a freshman - and he's got a frame that can be filled.


----------



## butr

Well. This will be my last report on Shelden, sadly. Duke deserved to lose, I don't know that LSU deserved to win.

Shelden was the only one to come out and play, with 23, 12, 4 and 3 stls. JJ Redick shot 3/18 and the entire team shot 28%.

Credit to LSU on guarding him, but when he did get free, he was stone cold.

Shelden was the only guy keeping Duke in this game on O and D. 

Big Baby was a non-factor for the most part, and had a couple of charges been called in the 1st 4 minutes, he would have had even less impact.

Credit Tyrus Thomas with a good game. He is super athletic, but certainly a tweener at the next level.

My last word tonight on Shelden Williams, a great Blue Devil and Senior, was shown to have accumulated a number of points, rebounds, blocks and steals that that only he, Pervis Ellison and David Robinson attained.

Shelden deserved better tonight.

Good luck to LSU.


----------



## butr

..


----------



## NeoSamurai

shookem said:


> More and more I'm begining to like the other guy in your avatar BUTR, the taller guy.
> 
> I would not be upset if somehow the Raptors drafted Josh McRoberts.
> 
> A frontcourt of Bosh/McRoberts/Villanueva is something, I think, would rock the league.
> 
> I would definatly draft McRoberts over whatever center of the week is hot right now, assuming Splitter is going to screw the Raps over.
> 
> It's too bad we don't have a mid-round pick anymore, I know it's for the greater good, but I'd love a shot at Sheldon Williams with a pick other then our first.


as good as that lineup could potentially be offensively (esp. with a good playmaking point), we would be eaten alive defensively as well as on the boards....

roberts is a great talent tho...wouldnt mind drafting him, but we wouldnt have addressed our interior problems although i suppose we could do that with a free agent signing and all...


----------



## pmac34

Tyrus Thomas and LSU beat Duke.....

Thomas was amazing especially since he just came from an injury a week or two ago


----------



## butr

pmac34 said:


> Tyrus Thomas and LSU beat Duke.....
> 
> Thomas was amazing especially since he just came from an injury a week or two ago


MMmm no. 3/18 beat Duke.


----------



## Dee-Zy

man, forget sheldon, I liked him when I saw him play and he put up great stats, but I watched Aldridge today for the first time and daaamn. I think he would complement Bosh real well. So we don't have a true Center, Eva-Bosh-Aldridge would be sick. First triple towers in history?




I secretly wish that he lost today so that his draft stock would tank and we could get him.


----------



## speedythief

blowuptheraptors said:


> MMmm no. 3/18 beat Duke.


How many offensive rebounds did LSU have? Seemed like they got one on every trip late.


----------



## SickGame

blowuptheraptors said:


> MMmm no. 3/18 beat Duke.


That's because Temple played amazing defense on reddick, hounding him all over the floor with his speed and wingspan.
LSU's defense and rebounding beat Duke, pure and simple, don't take it away from them.

I was greatly impressed by these players tonight:
Aldrige (obviously)
Tryus Thomas (sick athlete)
Jordan Farmar (never panicks, keeps his head in the game, clutch performer with the last 3 minute three, layup, steal and assist)


----------



## NeoSamurai

Shelden had a good game and was the only reason Duke was in the game late (other than the horrible free throw shooting by LSU)...

I was pretty impressed with his low post move set as he was able to get guys like Thomas and Davis to bite on upfakes...although it will be interesting to see how he does against 5s that will stay their ground and play tall in the NBA....definitely can be an Antonio Davis type of player but can we really go far with an undersized C?...i wouldnt mind drafting Shelden if we land the 7 pick, but only if a guy with more potential like a Noah or Thomas hasnt entered the draft or isnt on the board....i'd much rather pursue a Pryz/Nazr and draft a pick based on potential than draft Shelden...its not a knock on Shelden's abilities, its just that i'd prefer the FA C scenario...

JJ should go anywhere from 10-20, that would be appropriate for him...hes gonna be a solid bench contributor who can provide instant offense off the bench but he'll be hardpressed to start because of his limited size and athletic ability...

Tyrus Thomas is an intriguing player...if he can add another 15-20 lbs, he'd be a great addition...he should stay another year or so and develop more as a player because when he does decide to enter the draft, he'll be top 10 for sure, maybe top 3/5 depending on how much he can develop his offensive game...his defensive rebounding and shot blocking ability is amazing and hes only been playing organized ball for like 3 years (at least thats what i heard from the announcers)...if we draft him, we'd have an a traffic jam at the 3/4 spot, but theyd all be talented and athletic and if Mitchell can play an uptempo offense with these guys, we'd score a lot of points - although i do realize the fact that we are one of the highest scoring teams already (same could be said with drafting a Noah i suppose)...

Aldridge will go #1 in this year's draft...great skills offensively and really works for offensive and defensive rebounds (granted it was against WVU who play an undersized squad and a trap defense)...i can only hope we win the draft and get him to play alongside Bosh and Charlie...


----------



## shookem

NeoSamurai said:


> as good as that lineup could potentially be offensively (esp. with a good playmaking point), we would be eaten alive defensively as well as on the boards....
> 
> roberts is a great talent tho...wouldnt mind drafting him, but we wouldnt have addressed our interior problems although i suppose we could do that with a free agent signing and all...


I think it would be unwise to draft a player and expect them to solve our all of our interior D problems, there's not one pick in this years draft that would do that, there isn't a pick in the last five years that would have done that. You don't plug hole with the draft, you obtain the most talented player you possibily can, and if the Raps pick 5th, after the big four have gone, Josh McRoberts will be the next BPA. Besides, rebouding the one thing I'm confident JMR could do for the Raps next year.

BC, draft JMR!


Props to BUTR for all the great Duke updates all year, I hope you get to see lots of these guys play for years to come.


----------



## butr

speedythief said:


> How many offensive rebounds did LSU have? Seemed like they got one on every trip late.


Even when all players left the lane, the FT bonged straight back hard to big baby, the bounces fell perfectly for LSU in the last 2 mins.


----------



## butr

SickGame said:


> That's because Temple played amazing defense on reddick, hounding him all over the floor with his speed and wingspan.
> LSU's defense and rebounding beat Duke, pure and simple, don't take it away from them.
> 
> I was greatly impressed by these players tonight:
> Aldrige (obviously)
> Tryus Thomas (sick athlete)
> Jordan Farmar (never panicks, keeps his head in the game, clutch performer with the last 3 minute three, layup, steal and assist)


Were you watching the same game. Paulus, DeMarcus, Dockery and Melchionni missed nearly every OPEN shot they had. JJ made only a couple and misseed numerous layups and 3s that were essentially 'free'. LSU played him well. But don't tell me LSU beat them, Duke save for Shelden, beat themselves.

I mean you're talking about a dead heat of a game for 38.5 mins with a Duke team shooting 28%. 

I'm sorry, LSU played D well, but that was just an ice cold day from the field.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Who deserves "some" of the blame for all of the offensive rebounds that LSU got? 

Why is a short, rock-solid individual, less of tweener at centre then a taller, more slight, center.

But your right JJ was the main culprit last night.


----------



## NeoSamurai

just some random thoughts about the night action:

Kyle Lowry is awesome. This guy just has so much heart and quickness that whenever he enters the draft, Id like the Raps to seriously consider drafting him. I doubt he comes out this year but in the next two years, Lowry will be a great pickup for whoever drafts him. Really good with ball penetration, extremely active on the defensive end, and a ball hawk all in all. He may be pretty small for NBA standards, but I dont care - I love his game.

Craig Smith is a guy I wouldnt mind drafting in the 2nd round, sorta take a chance on him like Boston did with Ryan Gomes last year and who is now turning out to be a good player. Smith is strong and can bang in the NBA and although his height is a big drawback, hes definitely has some game with a nice touch around the basket and good interior fundamentals. I'd like to see how much he can develop a 15-18 footer because thatll be key for him. Hes got decent ball handling skills (he and Dudley were forced to bring the ball up against Novas trap several times) and i think he has enough quickness to get around some of the 4s and 5s in the league...

Sean Williams' block to send the game into overtime was just awesome...Kid's got hops...

Marcus Williams is very erratic. He made so many bad plays tonight that created so many TOs. Hes a great penetrator and can create for himself, but he needs to learn to be more secure with the ball and especially with his passes. Ultimately, his talent is unquestionable, its just whats between his ears that so worrying. He did score 26 in leading UConn but his 7 TOs almost cost them the game.

Rashard Anderson would be a good 2nd rounder to have coming off the bench as an instant offense type of player. What he did in the 2nd half for UConn was just incredible to watch.


----------



## MonkeyBallZJr

NeoSamurai said:


> just some random thoughts about the night action:
> 
> Kyle Lowry is awesome. This guy just has so much heart and quickness that whenever he enters the draft, Id like the Raps to seriously consider drafting him. I doubt he comes out this year but in the next two years, Lowry will be a great pickup for whoever drafts him. Really good with ball penetration, extremely active on the defensive end, and a ball hawk all in all. He may be pretty small for NBA standards, but I dont care - I love his game.
> 
> Craig Smith is a guy I wouldnt mind drafting in the 2nd round, sorta take a chance on him like Boston did with Ryan Gomes last year and who is now turning out to be a good player. Smith is strong and can bang in the NBA and although his height is a big drawback, hes definitely has some game with a nice touch around the basket and good interior fundamentals. I'd like to see how much he can develop a 15-18 footer because thatll be key for him. Hes got decent ball handling skills (he and Dudley were forced to bring the ball up against Novas trap several times) and i think he has enough quickness to get around some of the 4s and 5s in the league...
> 
> Sean Williams' block to send the game into overtime was just awesome...Kid's got hops...
> 
> Marcus Williams is very erratic. He made so many bad plays tonight that created so many TOs. Hes a great penetrator and can create for himself, but he needs to learn to be more secure with the ball and especially with his passes. Ultimately, his talent is unquestionable, its just whats between his ears that so worrying. He did score 26 in leading UConn but his 7 TOs almost cost them the game.
> 
> Rashard Anderson would be a good 2nd rounder to have coming off the bench as an instant offense type of player. What he did in the 2nd half for UConn was just incredible to watch.


tonight Uconn was just extremely careless with the ball. Marcus Williams usually does not commit this number of turnovers a game. Williams is a good decision maker and is the type of guy that wants the ball in his hand at clutch situations. As for Anderson, he's strictly a spot up shooter, probably one of the best in all of college basketball but there's a reason why Denham Brown is the clear starter now(Anderson was starting over Brown in 04 when the won the tourney with Okafor and Gordon), Brown is simply a much more complete player then Anderson is.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Marcus Williams occassionally has brutal games.... I remember the Big East Championship game he was so awful, that it gave me a lasting impression that I carried forward well into this year that he was way overrated (that and the character issues did not help). But he has proven to be a very solid and efficient point that is not really careless.... but has the odd careless game.


----------



## Team Mao

I continue to watch the UConn games hoping to come away impressed with Rudy Gay, but I never am. It's frustrating to watch because he has the skills but he just never seems to really try in games. I'm always much more impressed with Marcus Williams and Hilton Armstrong than Gay. And Boone has been awful at times this year when I've seen him.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but I really think that Rudy Gay needs a psychologist or a team of psychologists to get his head in the right place - I don't mean he's insane or loony. It's pretty clear watching him that he's not of the proper mindset to be a dominant player.If his mental ability on the court was anywhere close to his physical ability, he would dominate completely. The only thing holding him back now is his mind. Those people who use the classic talking point 'oh, his game is better suited to the NBA' are missing the point because until his head gets straight, his game will be about the same or worse in the NBA. I can imagine that the NBA requires a lot more mental toughness than college ball.

It would be nice for this kid to reach his potential but his not going to do much unless his head gets straight.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Is it just me or is Brandon Roy almost as tall as Rudy Gay?


----------



## ballocks

- players like tyrus are sure to get a ton of hype from here on out. i hope we can use that to our advantage. the guy's going to be a good player in the nba, no doubt, but he's a long way from contributing at a meaningful level. i'm still looking for player who can come in and contribute right away- at least to some degree. tyrus wouldn't be that guy for us, i don't think, and you sure can't stick him at the 5 either. there aren't many of them this year, but he's the one guy i'd make an effort to avoid if i were the toronto raptors.

you don't draft on need, you don't draft on roster fit, no, but you do draft on need at times, and you certainly do draft on roster fit periodically. given the stage of our team right now, i don't think we can/should: 1) wait very long for a promising project to develop; 2) even if we could, i don't think we need another ~ 6'9 athlete at this stage. in this draft, i'd probably look elsewhere- not saying i wouldn't draft a 4 or 5 or whatever, just wouldn't want to crowd bosh and villanueva. there is a difference, at least until charlie can learn to shoot the 3 with more consistency.

- one guy i have to credit is adam morrison. when he was playing for the zags last year, didn't really see his 'edge'. i thought ronny turiaf would become the better pro, in all likelihood, but this was before the heart problem grabbed turiaf. regardless, morrison didn't impress me then but given what he's shown this season, i'm glad he decided to stay in school for another year. the man had a fantastic campaign from what i've seen, and he's become a legendary collegian. the loss on thursday was heartbreak personified, it was a movie, and players who play such roles in such drama don't normally go on to 'scrub' pro careers. i don't know what'll happen with morrison himself, but i see him a lot brighter than i did before. if he could take things like his free throw shooting up a notch, he'll become a great pro. and no matter, his time at gonzaga will be remembered. the ncaa doesn't produce many careers like that anymore.

- lamarcus aldridge is ready for the pros (imo). i'm not sure we'll get the chance to pick him, but i certainly wouldn't mind. while he hasn't yet played versus "challenging"/high-level competition, he's still shown comfort in the role of being a _force_. i think his defense could improve substantially from here but his size is already an advantage for him. he's very long... and very wide... yet very skinny to allow him to run the floor rather well. i see injuries in his future- he might even face weight issues down the road, don't know- but i think he has strong value when healthy. and it's made me happy to see him stay in college for a couple of years. he's developed considerably over the last while, and he's had some memorable moments that are sure to help him make the next transition. i'm hoping the longhorns can qualify for the big dance to give him an opportunity to handle that peerless spotlight- which is maybe the greatest 'learning experience' in basketball (imo).

peace


----------



## Gotham2krazy

The knock on JJ is that he's short and while you might say, "Hey Dwayne Wade's the same height," but the thing is that Dwayne has playmaking ability and JJ doesn't. In order for JJ to be good, he needs more to be added to his repetoire.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> Who deserves "some" of the blame for all of the offensive rebounds that LSU got?
> 
> Why is a short, rock-solid individual, less of tweener at centre then a taller, more slight, center.
> 
> But your right JJ was the main culprit last night.


The purpose he serves.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Gotham2krazy said:


> The knock on JJ is that he's short and while you might say, "Hey Dwayne Wade's the same height," but the thing is that Dwayne has playmaking ability and JJ doesn't. In order for JJ to be good, he needs more to be added to his repetoire.


You forgot athleticism and a freakish armspan.


----------



## NeoSamurai

SkywalkerAC said:


> You forgot athleticism and a freakish armspan.


lol

not to mention the obvious of who else was on Marquette when Dwayne led them to the final four....Duke's starting 5 consists of 4 guys that will eventually get drafted into the NBA...all Wade had back then was Travis Diener...


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Say what you want about the weakness of this draft but I'm starting to feel pretty comfortable with a top 7 pick. Brandon Roy and Sheldon might not be star players but they're going to be good ones that will be available for us on draft night. 

Lack of depth in this draft is actually going to help us get a leg up on our conference rivals, in theory at least. Of course that would be wiped out if we lose our pick the following year but that's life.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

And draftexpress now has Morrison falling down to the 7th spot. While I don't think that will happen, there is certainly the possibility that he could fall to us, depending on who comes out. He's not a perfect fit but he's another piece of the puzzle in putting together the most potent offence out there.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

And boy I love the flexibility that having Bosh and Charlie gives us. We could draft another PF like Tyrus Thomas or Bargnani or Sheldon or Noah and I'd be comfortable with it. 

Speaking of Tyrus, looks like he's having quite a game against Aldridge. 19 points (on 11 shots), 7 rebounds, 2 blocks with 7:45 left to play. I think it's probable that he'll come out this year.

Back to Splitter, can someone confirm that he becomes a free agent in the summer of 2007 if he doesn't enter the draft this year?


----------



## Dee-Zy

wow, aldridge is completely shut down in this game...

is it a preview of what would happend to him at the nba level???


----------



## Dee-Zy

SkywalkerAC said:


> And boy I love the flexibility that having Bosh and Charlie gives us. We could draft another PF like Tyrus Thomas or Bargnani or Sheldon or Noah and I'd be comfortable with it.
> 
> Speaking of Tyrus, looks like he's having quite a game against Aldridge. 19 points (on 11 shots), 7 rebounds, 2 blocks with 7:45 left to play. I think it's probable that he'll come out this year.
> 
> Back to Splitter, can someone confirm that he becomes a free agent in the summer of 2007 if he doesn't enter the draft this year?




Big Baby has been covering aldridge though, not tyrus.


----------



## speedythief

Aldridge was EXPOSED tonight.





j/k. LSU has a lot of momentum right now.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Dee-Zy said:


> Big Baby has been covering aldridge though, not tyrus.



I thought as much. Not a head-to-head but a matchup nonetheless. Tyrus comes out on top.


----------



## martymar

This is too late, since I haven't posted in awhile but JJ reddick got exposed by LSU, that's going to be his NBA future he'll struggle to make open shots by himself.


----------



## Benis007

tyrus was huge


----------



## CbobbyB

Everybody Loves Tyrus...WoW


----------



## jworth

ballocks said:


> - players like tyrus are sure to get a ton of hype from here on out. i hope we can use that to our advantage. the guy's going to be a good player in the nba, no doubt, but he's a long way from contributing at a meaningful level.


So you don't think Tyrus Thomas will be swatting shots on a consistent basis in the NBA next season if he enters the draft?


----------



## martymar

jworth said:


> So you don't think Tyrus Thomas will be swatting shots on a consistent basis in the NBA next season if he enters the draft?


there was an article couple of months ago that he was thinking of staying another year since he feels he is not ready to play in the nba


----------



## jworth

Dee-Zy said:


> wow, aldridge is completely shut down in this game...
> 
> is it a preview of what would happend to him at the nba level???


Aldridge will need to beef up A LOT. The only offense he could attempt against LSU's bigs were fadeaways, and for the most part, those didn't fall.


----------



## jworth

martymar said:


> there was an article couple of months ago that he was thinking of staying another year since he feels he is not ready to play in the nba


that would be great for LSU, obviously, so I hope he does stay. But I know his stock has risen tremendously over the last month, and especially the last week or so, and he'll likely be looked at as a top 10 pick in this year's draft. That may be enough to entice him to the League following this season.


----------



## Dee-Zy

a lot of mock drafts has him almost in the top 5 already.


If he plays well in the final 4, he might become top 5?


what u guys think?


----------



## Rhubarb

Gotham2krazy said:


> The knock on JJ is that he's short and while you might say, "Hey Dwayne Wade's the same height," but the thing is that Dwayne has playmaking ability and JJ doesn't. In order for JJ to be good, he needs more to be added to his repetoire.


People are too busy knocking JJ and looking at all the reasons why he can't succeed at the NBA that they turn a blind eye to all the reasons why he can succeed. He may conjure something amazing, but I think it's safe to say he's never going to be much more than a very handy bench player in the league.

Is that necessarily a bad thing? No. I think just about every team could use a guy to lead a second unit into the foray, or be the go-to guy for a string of jumpers or a clutch three.

He can be good, just not the definitive 'good' that most people picture he can't be.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

ballocks said:


> - players like tyrus are sure to get a ton of hype from here on out. i hope we can use that to our advantage. the guy's going to be a good player in the nba, no doubt, but he's a long way from contributing at a meaningful level. i'm still looking for player who can come in and contribute right away- at least to some degree. tyrus wouldn't be that guy for us, i don't think, and you sure can't stick him at the 5 either. there aren't many of them this year, but he's the one guy i'd make an effort to avoid if i were the toronto raptors.


He's a long way away? Because of his athleticism and energy, Tyrus Thomas is ready to play solid defense and alter many shots in the NBA. He's ready to crash the offensive glass and dunk missed shots. He's ready to provide energy and intensity. I would be pleased with those contributions on the Raptors, especially since the most raw part of his game is obviously his offense, and the Raptors don't particularily need much of that from him.



> - lamarcus aldridge is ready for the pros (imo). i'm not sure we'll get the chance to pick him, but i certainly wouldn't mind. while he hasn't yet played versus "challenging"/high-level competition, he's still shown comfort in the role of being a _force_. i think his defense could improve substantially from here but his size is already an advantage for him. he's very long... and very wide... yet very skinny to allow him to run the floor rather well. i see injuries in his future- he might even face weight issues down the road, don't know- but i think he has strong value when healthy. and it's made me happy to see him stay in college for a couple of years. he's developed considerably over the last while, and he's had some memorable moments that are sure to help him make the next transition. i'm hoping the longhorns can qualify for the big dance to give him an opportunity to handle that peerless spotlight- which is maybe the greatest 'learning experience' in basketball (imo).


He could face weight issues down the road? His defense needs substantial help? Er, if anything he could use to add some weight and his defense is pretty solid at the moment. His defense will improve with more strength and more weight. Adding strength will help him bang down low in the NBA.



> The knock on JJ is that he's short and while you might say, "Hey Dwayne Wade's the same height," but the thing is that Dwayne has playmaking ability and JJ doesn't. In order for JJ to be good, he needs more to be added to his repetoire.


I agree, but I believe the biggest difference between Wade and Redick (and the reason why JJ will be a role player in the NBA) is that Redick will have difficulty creating his own shot in the NBA.


----------



## AReallyCoolGuy

White boy can't jump.


----------



## aizn

FanOfAll8472 said:


> He's a long way away? Because of his athleticism and energy, Tyrus Thomas is ready to play solid defense and alter many shots in the NBA. He's ready to crash the offensive glass and dunk missed shots. He's ready to provide energy and intensity. I would be pleased with those contributions on the Raptors, especially since the most raw part of his game is obviously his offense, and the Raptors don't particularily need much of that from him.


ur makin him sound like pape sow. lol. having 2 pape sow's on a team wouldnt b bad thoguh. at least thomas would have a better offensive game.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

I don't think this is as bad a draft year as people think. We've been extremely spoiled in the past few drafts with great depth and some great prospects around the top. Take a look back as some of the previous drafts and you'll see that this year stacks up fine against most of them. It will be a decent year for lottery teams IMO, without the depth to really help the playoff teams, which plays in our favour now that we don't have a second pick. 

The test of a decent drafts is usually in the bigs available- Aldridge, Bargnani (one of the best Euro prospects ever), Tyrus, Sheldon, Noah (hope he comes out), and maybe Splitter (don't know what's going to happen there) is a decent crop. PG is pretty weak but the NBA has been spoiled by a good influx of late (that should come around to help us in time). Plenty of good wing players too. 

Depite the talent in this draft I'm happy that Boston isn't going to get their starting PF, Philly won't get more than a bench player, I'm not sure what Boston would want from this draft, New York won't be able to help itself with the Denver pick. :banana:


----------



## ColinBeehler

has boston given up on al jeff already?


----------



## SkywalkerAC

ColinBeehler said:


> has boston given up on al jeff already?



He certainly hasn't made much progress in their lineup this season has he? Ryan Gomes starting ahead of him. Biedrins and Swift and Hoffa, the other bigs in his vicinity in that draft haven't done much either of course. Jefferson is young though- still has to pack some muscle on those arms and start doing plyo training.


----------



## italianBBlover

Bargnani Vs Roseto Sharks

23 minutes
9 points
3-7 from 2 (1 dunk)
1-2 from 3
4 rebounds
3 blocks
3 steals
0 turnovers


----------



## speedythief

Denham Brown forces OT against GMU!


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Gay gets 20 but I'm glad to see him out before the final 4. There's a chance he could fall to us.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Go Florida! (I really want Noah to come out this year).


----------



## speedythief

SkywalkerAC said:


> Gay gets 20 but I'm glad to see him out before the final 4. There's a chance he could fall to us.


Gay is well suited to pre-draft workouts. Guys like him and Bargnani (long, athletic, skills) always seem to improve their stock in that week or two. Charlie blew us away in his workout which led to us taking him sooner than predicted.

Still, I don't know if I like the idea of Bosh at centre.


----------



## Benis007

If he is available, I want Noah with our 1st round pick, assuming aldridge is not on the board.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Benis007 said:


> If he is available, I want Noah with our 1st round pick.



Good choice...


*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


----------



## dynamiks

yo Im feeling my boy Joakim still, it depends but were we draft, If we get first itz either Gay or Alderidge. Also, I dont want any forigen playes, cuz even if Bargnani supposed to be the next Dirk Nowitizki, he cannot fill the center void. I think we should also look at Brandon Roy, if we dont get Alderidge, Morrison, Thomas, or Gay. Brandon ROy shows promise to me. So where it looks like we should look at Joakim or Brandon.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

SkywalkerAC said:


> He certainly hasn't made much progress in their lineup this season has he? Ryan Gomes starting ahead of him. Biedrins and Swift and Hoffa, the other bigs in his vicinity in that draft haven't done much either of course. Jefferson is young though- still has to pack some muscle on those arms and start doing plyo training.


Boston is being very patient with Al Jefferson. He has improved, though not a great deal. He has struggled largely because injuries have taken him out of the lineup a couple times and Ryan Gomes played well in his absence. Jefferson wouldn't be an ideal fit with Bosh/Eva anyway; Big Al is mostly a post scorer who hasn't learned to pass or defend well.



> If he is available, I want Noah with our 1st round pick.


I'm not completely sold on Noah. He would be a safe pick - at worst a solid hustle role player, but he lacks some skills as a 'tweener. He has an awkward looking form on the shot (and an average mid-range jumper) and needs to improve his post moves. Plus, his frame and game will probably put him at the 3 in the NBA, very much like Villaneuva. Charlie V is more skilled than Noah, except in ball handling and passing. I can see Noah rebounding and blocking shots well, because he is active, jumps well, and has very good anticipation, but he isn't the physical defensive game changer the Raptors are looking for down low.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> Who deserves "some" of the blame for all of the offensive rebounds that LSU got?
> 
> Why is a short, rock-solid individual, less of tweener at centre then a taller, more slight, center.
> 
> But your right JJ was the main culprit last night.


Who deserves the blame when the only LSU player in the lane is the shooter and the shooter gets the rebound? No one, when the ball rockets back to the shooter.

Sometimes the bounces just go the other way.


----------



## butr

Ideal draft:

1) Win the Lotto, Chicago loses out totally get 5 and 11.

2) We trade 1 for 5 and 11.

3) Pick Brandon Roy and Shelden.


----------



## Dee-Zy

blowuptheraptors said:


> Ideal draft:
> 
> 1) Win the Lotto, Chicago loses out totally get 5 and 11.
> 
> 2) We trade 1 for 5 and 11.
> 
> 3) Pick Brandon Roy and Shelden.




I'd rather have Aldridge than a Roy AND Sheldon package.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

blowuptheraptors said:


> Who deserves the blame when the only LSU player in the lane is the shooter and the shooter gets the rebound? No one, when the ball rockets back to the shooter.
> 
> Sometimes the bounces just go the other way.


 The people who should've communicated to box out the free throw shooter. Namely the two players closest to Glen Davis. Nobody boxed him out. The 4 players (forget who they were) half-heartedly stood there watching the ball. But about Shelden Williams, he was effectively shut down by Tyrus Thomas in the last 5-6 minutes of the game. Shame, because he had an excellent before that, against two big, NBA prospects.



> Ideal draft:
> 
> 1) Win the Lotto, Chicago loses out totally get 5 and 11.
> 
> 2) We trade 1 for 5 and 11.
> 
> 3) Pick Brandon Roy and Shelden.


Very ideal.



> I'd rather have Aldridge than a Roy AND Sheldon package.


I wouldn't. I think Aldridge will make a solid pro, but he addresses the needs of a team like the Bulls better than the Raptors, who need a strong defensive/rebounding big man down low, not another offensive player in the frontcourt. Plus, Roy would be a solid 2 guard who brings a wide range of skills.


----------



## Dee-Zy

FanOfAll8472 said:


> The people who should've communicated to box out the free throw shooter. Namely the two players closest to Glen Davis. Nobody boxed him out. The 4 players (forget who they were) half-heartedly stood there watching the ball. But about Shelden Williams, he was effectively shut down by Tyrus Thomas in the last 5-6 minutes of the game. Shame, because he had an excellent before that, against two big, NBA prospects.
> 
> 
> Very ideal.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't. I think Aldridge will make a solid pro, but he addresses the needs of a team like the Bulls better than the Raptors, who need a strong defensive/rebounding big man down low, not another offensive player in the frontcourt. Plus, Roy would be a solid 2 guard who brings a wide range of skills.




I'm not following you, are you saying that the bulls need a strong defensive/rebounding big man down low or that Aldridge is another offensive force the raps don't need?


I thought Aldridge IS that defensive/rebounding big man we need. Isn't he runner up for DPOY? Or didn't he actually get that title?


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

Originally Posted by FanOfAll8472 
The people who should've communicated to box out the free throw shooter. Namely the two players closest to Glen Davis. Nobody boxed him out. The 4 players (forget who they were) half-heartedly stood there watching the ball. But about Shelden Williams, he was effectively shut down by Tyrus Thomas in the last 5-6 minutes of the game. Shame, because he had an excellent before that, against two big, NBA prospects.


Very ideal.


I wouldn't. I think Aldridge will make a solid pro, but he addresses the needs of a team like the Bulls better than the Raptors, who need a strong defensive/rebounding big man down low, not another offensive player in the frontcourt. Plus, Roy would be a solid 2 guard who brings a wide range of skills. 


I agree Aldridge fits what the Bulls need, they have Chandler as rebounding big man down low and need a offensinive scorer to play PF.


----------



## Flush

blowuptheraptors said:


> Ideal draft:
> 
> 1) Win the Lotto, Chicago loses out totally get 5 and 11.
> 
> 2) We trade 1 for 5 and 11.
> 
> 3) Pick Brandon Roy and Shelden.


 :drool:


----------



## mo76

rudy gay - saw him play yesterday. has very fluid jumper and looks very solid. Is there any possibility he could play the 2?

also, i wonder if tyrus thomas or josh mcroberts could fill the center role with the raps in the mould of an amare stoudimire, because the raps want to be a running team.

I guess Noah isnt declaring or he would probably be my pick for C.

no PGs in this years draft are really that intriquing, imo.

Does anyone have an idea of what the raps are looking for with the number one pick???

team needs are Center, PG , SG ????


----------



## Benis007

no way tyrus thomas will be a center in the NBA. i don't care about his standing reach or verticle.. the guy is only 6-8/6-9, and his name is not ben wallace.

Thomas will be a PF/SF, a much better Stromile Swift IMO.


----------



## mo76

Benis007 said:


> no way tyrus thomas will be a center in the NBA. i don't care about his standing reach or verticle.. the guy is only 6-8/6-9, and his name is not ben wallace.
> 
> Thomas will be a PF/SF, a much better Stromile Swift IMO.


I know thomas is a PF/SF, but i would rather draft him than aldridge, williams or armstrong.
The raptors dont need another 4 but we dont need another unathletic center either.

THIS DRAFT SUCKS FOR THE RAPTORS!!!!!


----------



## arcade_rida

Everyones talking abotu Tyrus but wow what about the Big Baby? Guy is big but sooo athletic and works hard.


----------



## mo76

arcade_rida said:


> Everyones talking abotu Tyrus but wow what about the Big Baby? Guy is big but sooo athletic and works hard.


Is that Big Baby dude even projected to be drafted.
What do you mean as "so athletic" cause i heard of him described as a "below the rim player." I think he is a poor mans Zach Randolf at best.


----------



## ballocks

i guess they've (cbs) done it successfully: they've blown glen davis up into a star. it doesn't necessarily happen _every_ year, no, but it usually happens. i think this one was especially contrived, though- i might be a conspiracy theorist today but i'm totally convinced that they did it on purpose. did they _need_ a star? well, they made one- and luckily enough, he delivered. he almost justified the attention. y'know what, the tigers made the final four: i think he _did_ justify it.

but seriously, watching the tigers over the last week and a half has almost forced me to mute the television on my remote. i usually don't care but this was tough. "big baby this!" "big baby that!" "big BABYBABYBABY!" just relax. dick enberg hasn't ever been my favourite play-by-play voice but he took it to another level this tournament. i think he even, at some point, suggested that big baby should get his own talk show- holy mother of mercy. 

whatever, davis shouldn't pay the price for the flaws of the people watching him. his games have been terrific. still, i can't help but admit that i'm kind of relieved that nantz & packer are taking over from here. this is an unbelievable fourpiece playing in indianapolis, and i would've been concerned for dick enberg's health had he been told to call any more lsu games.

peace


----------



## Benis007

Big Baby = Tractor Traylor

Fat guy that knows how to use his body. What Davis did on Aldridge inside really suprised me.


----------



## arcade_rida

Benis007 said:


> Big Baby = Tractor Traylor
> 
> Fat guy that knows how to use his body. What Davis did on Aldridge inside really suprised me.


Big Baby? Waow. He doesnt look too fat to me. In fact he does have baby fat but he isnt a fat guy. If he was way more toned he would be showing off a lot of mustle. But yea I think he is gonna be a solid player, but thats just your opinion.


----------



## Benis007

6-9, 310 lbs.

the guy looks like a tub of lard.








also watching him play he should throw it down hard instead of settling for bank shots.

the guy reminds me of the big "O"


----------



## Team Mao

I used to be big on the idea of trading down in theis draft or trading the pick in a package to fill one of our holes. But after watching the tounrey and seeing a few of his games earlier this season, I'd be happy if we picked up Brandon Roy with our pick (at 5 or 6). I'd even pick him before Morrison or Gay. 

Brandon Roy wouldn't fill our glaring holes at centre or PG, but we can fill the centre hole through free agency (a few good Cs and even fewer buyers this year) and wait another year to fill the PG hole, or maybe at the deadline next year with some of our expirings.

I think Brandon Roy has more potential to put up triple-doubles than any player in this year's draft. He's not a spectacular or flashy player but he just gets everything down and has shown a lot of leadership on the court this season. I've been really impressed with his court vision and passing out of the two position and his ball handling is really solid. I really think he could be able to play spot minutes at PG if called upon.

For the 2006/2007 season he would give us a lot of depth in the backcourt and if he performs well it would give us options with MoPete who, I believe, will be unrestricted after next season. I know it's blasphemy for Raps fans to think about trading MoPete, but if his expiring could bring us back a quality point guard next year at the deadline, the trigger would have to be pulled.


----------



## Chalie Boy

Benis007 said:


> 6-9, 310 lbs.
> 
> the guy looks like a tub of lard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also watching him play he should throw it down hard instead of settling for bank shots.
> 
> the guy reminds me of the big "O"


Hey man, lay off of Big Baby :biggrin: I think he will have a better time in the NBA than Big O and Tractor, the guy ACTUALLY works hard unlike those two bums. He has a good GPA, and he is playing to help his mother to have a better life(she is a drug addict)


----------



## arcade_rida

Benis007 said:


> 6-9, 310 lbs.
> 
> the guy looks like a tub of lard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also watching him play he should throw it down hard instead of settling for bank shots.
> 
> the guy reminds me of the big "O"


 Woaw the way you are describing him and comparing him to the Big O you haven't watched the baby more then in the NCAA. Whatever he will have a great career in the league, well I believe so anyway. Guy plays hard all night long and actually has great endurance. So even hif he is a " tub of lard" Guy has amazing edurance.


----------



## arcade_rida

Guy looks like he has a lot of muscle to me. But to tone it he would need to lose the fat around it. Doesnt look like a big piece of lard to me.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

Dee-Zy said:


> I'm not following you, are you saying that the bulls need a strong defensive/rebounding big man down low or that Aldridge is another offensive force the raps don't need?
> 
> 
> I thought Aldridge IS that defensive/rebounding big man we need. Isn't he runner up for DPOY? Or didn't he actually get that title?


 JYD pretty much covered me. Aldridge at this point will be a post scorer in the NBA. He's an all right defensive player. Remember that Chris Paul won ACC DPOY or something ridiculous like that despite playing little defense (and I'm a big Chris Paul fan). College defensive awards mean very little.



> Is that Big Baby dude even projected to be drafted.
> What do you mean as "so athletic" cause i heard of him described as a "below the rim player." I think he is a poor mans Zach Randolf at best.


At best? Davis, I feel, will be a more efficient and skilled scorer than Randolph, but inferior rebounder. Davis has basketball instincts, agility, and strength on Randolph. Randolph has a better shot, but lacks on-court awareness. Both have nice touch for such wide bodies. Both have major weaknesses and strengths, but I think Davis certainly can reach the level Randolph is at.


----------



## butr

Team Mao said:


> I used to be big on the idea of trading down in theis draft or trading the pick in a package to fill one of our holes. But after watching the tounrey and seeing a few of his games earlier this season, I'd be happy if we picked up Brandon Roy with our pick (at 5 or 6). I'd even pick him before Morrison or Gay.


I think he has the necessary grey matter and heart for the NBA. I think Gayboy lacks both.


----------



## butr

All-Americans

Foye, Roy, Morrison, Redick and Shelden.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2386288


----------



## speedythief

Good seeing PJ make the second team. Somebody I would love to land with our second rounder.


----------



## Team Mao

Benis007 said:


> no way tyrus thomas will be a center in the NBA. i don't care about his standing reach or verticle.. the guy is only 6-8/6-9, and his name is not ben wallace.
> 
> Thomas will be a PF/SF, a much better Stromile Swift IMO.


I think it's hard right now to pass that judgement. This guy's game has got Amare written all over it. Remember that Amare's predraft measurements are 6'8.5" w/o shoes and 6'10" with shoes, 235 lbs link . He's got that crazy motor and crazy leaping ability that Stoudemire's got. 

I'm not saying that he will be as good as Amare, but that's the pro I think TT's game resembles most right now. I think Draftexpress put it best in their profile 'Stromile Swift with Ben Wallace's Attitude', to me that's a pretty good description of Amare's game in the pros. Thomas already has a more developed offensive game than Ben Wallace and he's still incredibly young and raw.

It's not as if the Raptors will be in a positon to draft this guy, but to rule him out as a centre in the league at 6'9" is a bit much.


----------



## Benis007

Tyrus Thomas reminds me of Josh Smith.

6-9, shot blocking, high-flying, dunker.


----------



## Dee-Zy

Amare was out of HS, and has grown since I think.


TT is 19, but I don't know ... u think he'll still grow as much to become a nba C? I think saw a few places that he was 6'8". Might be 6'9" with shoes, that's a big difference even for an inch (compared to Stat).

A lot of mock draft has him #1. I guess that's good news for us, more chances of getting Aldridge.


----------



## Dee-Zy

I know you guys are big on a Roy and Sheldon package, but the more I hear about Aldridge, the more I like him.

Besides, we are young enough as it is, getting 2 more rookies might too much. Too much to focus on/develop. Remember that we still have 2 rookies over seas. (Ok, maybe just one but you know what I mean). 3 rookies this year, 2 first round rooks plus perhaps one 2nd rnder? That's too much.

Aldridge draws a lot of comparison with Bosh and he is bigger/more of a big man than Bosh is. I think I can def see him develop along side Bosh for the C.


Eva/Bosh/Aldridge would be sick. We would def make the playoff with that I think, and the year after that, title contention with the right move (ie, pass first PG and a vet back up C)


Aldridge def got what it takes to be a def presence, and I'm sure if we land him, he will be developped that way. As soon as Eva/Bosh will become our 1-2 option, we still got Mo-Pete and James, so Aldridge won't be needed for the offense that much.


----------



## butr

Dee-Zy said:


> I know you guys are big on a Roy and Sheldon package, but the more I hear about Aldridge, the more I like him.
> 
> Besides, we are young enough as it is, getting 2 more rookies might too much. Too much to focus on/develop. Remember that we still have 2 rookies over seas. (Ok, maybe just one but you know what I mean). 3 rookies this year, 2 first round rooks plus perhaps one 2nd rnder? That's too much.
> 
> Aldridge draws a lot of comparison with Bosh and he is bigger/more of a big man than Bosh is. I think I can def see him develop along side Bosh for the C.
> 
> 
> Eva/Bosh/Aldridge would be sick. We would def make the playoff with that I think, and the year after that, title contention with the right move (ie, pass first PG and a vet back up C)
> 
> 
> Aldridge def got what it takes to be a def presence, and I'm sure if we land him, he will be developped that way. As soon as Eva/Bosh will become our 1-2 option, we still got Mo-Pete and James, so Aldridge won't be needed for the offense that much.



Hey did you hear that Aldridge decided against a career in the NBA. He's booked in Vegas with Penn & Teller for their next magic show. Aldridge is part of their disappearing act.


As for those of you hoping for the tall white guy in my avatar...

Freshman Josh McRoberts says he will not leave Duke early to join the NBA: "I'll be at Duke next year. I'm committed to Duke right now."

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7002910265


----------



## ballocks

blowuptheraptors said:


> As for those of you hoping for the tall white guy in my avatar...
> 
> Freshman Josh McRoberts says he will not leave Duke early to join the NBA: "I'll be at Duke next year. I'm committed to Duke right now."
> http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7002910265


true, but i don't know if you can believe anyone at the moment. i mean, you can believe them in the sense that you can trust that they believe what they're saying, but a lot can still happen. right now _especially_, these players are in no position to decide either way. in josh's case, the man was just devastated with a loss, and now he has to watch the ncaa's greatest media extravaganza from the sidelines. obviously he wants to be part of the big show right now.

but recall how it feels in may. completely different. the stage shifts. the spotlight of "the big show" falls on the draft, so we'll see what happens then.

regardless, while i don't want to overemphasize this, i think it _might_ point out the symptom of a player the raps shouldn't take a chance on at the moment. he's still living the life of extremes, for lack of a better term. he's apparently making his decisions on emotion. don't get me wrong, i think players like josh mcroberts have good careers ahead of them, but not right now. in other words, for those of us who don't think it's wise to wait any longer, i'd avoid josh- as well as a few others.

of course, this could all be rendered moot by the time the draft rolls around. he may not even declare. we'll see- can't tell yet, though, regardless of what he says (imo).

peace


----------



## butr

^^ I agree. I'm just posting it. Take it for what you want. With him and learning from two guys that stayed 4 years, I say there is a better chance he stays than goes.

Oh and I just became a big Doug Smith fan. This from last week.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1142941145702

FUTURE RAPTOR?: Here's a name to think about as the draft rolls around.

Andrea Bargnani.

You don't think general manager Bryan Colangelo, with his varied and serious connections in Europe and specifically Italy, hasn't been paying close attention to the 7-foot forward for years?

The disinformation campaign around the draft is about ready to begin in earnest — although the last day that GMs officially tell the truth is usually Lottery Day — so it should be mentioned now that Bargnani is, at the moment, the apple of the Raptor eye.

Another guy to look at closely: *Duke's Shelden Williams. He's a beast, and if the draft does go just four deep - LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay, Adam Morrison and Bargnani - Williams is a logical Raptor pick at No. 5.*

:kiss:

Note also that a bunch of fans emailed in to rip him for it, which he reported today.


----------



## ballocks

Benis007 said:


> Tyrus Thomas reminds me of Josh Smith.
> 
> 6-9, shot blocking, high-flying, dunker.


y'know what, i don't usually approve of comparisons, but considering their styles and body-types, this is certainly not unreasonable. i mean, these guys are going to be very different in the pros (imo), especially considering their almost completely different basketball backgrounds and personalities, but they do have some things in common, no doubt.

in fact, i think players like these two can almost revolutionize the game in a sense, by becoming pre-eminent shotblockers from a position other than the 5. i would not doubt for that to become of the next trends in this league. you'll have these fly-swatting circus 'athletes' at the 3 or the 4 or whatever, to compensate for the gravity-bound 7' bodies who haven't blocked a shot since italy (their purpose(s): take up space in order to deter the tony parkers and kobe bryants of the league from laying it up on every possession; take up space to make limit the alternatives available to the yaos and shaqs; take up space).

i'm interested to see where it goes from here. that's not to say i'd necessarily want tyrus thomas on the raptors next season- regardless of how you feel about him, i think he's clearly still a pro project- only to point out that players like himself and josh smith could ultimately have a bigger impact on this game than you think. again, we'll see.

peace


----------



## mo76

blowuptheraptors said:


> ^^ I agree. I'm just posting it. Take it for what you want. With him and learning from two guys that stayed 4 years, I say there is a better chance he stays than goes.
> 
> Oh and I just became a big Doug Smith fan. This from last week.
> 
> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1142941145702
> 
> FUTURE RAPTOR?: Here's a name to think about as the draft rolls around.
> 
> Andrea Bargnani.
> 
> You don't think general manager Bryan Colangelo, with his varied and serious connections in Europe and specifically Italy, hasn't been paying close attention to the 7-foot forward for years?
> 
> The disinformation campaign around the draft is about ready to begin in earnest — although the last day that GMs officially tell the truth is usually Lottery Day — so it should be mentioned now that Bargnani is, at the moment, the apple of the Raptor eye.
> 
> Another guy to look at closely: *Duke's Shelden Williams. He's a beast, and if the draft does go just four deep - LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay, Adam Morrison and Bargnani - Williams is a logical Raptor pick at No. 5.*
> 
> :kiss:
> 
> Note also that a bunch of fans emailed in to rip him for it, which he reported today.



I hope the raptors draft Andrea Bargnan so i can listen to Stephan A. Smith trash the raptors twice as bad as he did last year.  
I know BC likes european big men but seriously

WHY WOULD THE RAPTORS DRAFT ANOTHER 4???????????


----------



## butr

> Ainge Drops Hint
> 
> On WEEI, Ainge hinted that his favorite player is currently projected by some to be picked around 12th or 13th. Will Ainge get another steal?


From a boston blog via hoopshype. Funny since BOS will likely draft higher than that.


----------



## butr

Reading an interview with Tiago Splitter, it was interesting to read that he sees himself as a pure PF.


----------



## speedythief

blowuptheraptors said:


> Reading an interview with Tiago Splitter, it was interesting to read that he sees himself as a pure PF.


Yeah, nobody wants to be a centre. Or a point guard. Everyone wants to be a volume shooter.

We're going to have a league of combo guards and power forwards.


----------



## Benis007

speedythief said:


> Yeah, nobody wants to be a centre. Or a point guard. Everyone wants to be a volume shooter.
> 
> We're going to have a league of combo guards and power forwards.


hot dang

well said

When I first got into basketball, Shaq was in Orlando, David Robinson was in San Antonio, Olajuwon was in Houston, Ewing was in New York, Mourning was in Charlotte, Divac was in LA. Watching two top notch centers go at it all game was amazing.

Besides Yao, and over the hill Duncan and Shaq, who are the dominant centers in the league? You could include Stoudamire and Howard, but I think they need to show dominance over a more extended period. 

I think its the old school style of basketball though. I think that teams prefer having a tweener scorer at the point, rather than a pass 1st PG. Or maybe it is a product of the system, PG sized players have worked on their shooting and SG/SF sized players have improved their ball handling skills.

I dunno, a little miller lite insight. regardless of what i have tried to prove in this post i agree with what you are saying, and for the record, if having a pass first point guard and a dominant center make me old school, call me father time.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

blowuptheraptors said:


> Reading an interview with Tiago Splitter, it was interesting to read that he sees himself as a pure PF.


Interesting, but wrong. 

Dwight Howard said the same thing last year. But it doesn't matter what they think..


----------



## dynamiks

im feeling Brandon Roy i think he'll be solid, also im liking Joakim Noah.


----------



## Team Mao

I know people are going to jump all over me for this one, but I really don't like Noah much. His offensive game is really unpolished, he can handle the ball well in the open floor but he really has no moves to score with. His game right now is hustle, in the Villanova game he couldn't even get good position against guys like Foye and Ray, what will he do in the bigs? I don't see where his game will fit in the NBA.

I also think the guy is a little bit too high-strung. There have been countless times in the tourney where he's starting thumping his chest and screaming because he drew a loose-ball foul, take some ritalin dude. I'm all for excitement and drive but it's a loose-ball foul, just get your *** up the court for the next offensive set.

His 'College is just so much fun right now' and 'the NBA is boring' comments are priceless. Usually when guys stay in college, they'll say something like 'I need to improve (shot, handles, defence)' or something along those lines. The guy is a 21 year old sophomore, most guys his age are seniors. These comments reeks of immaturity, they didn't hit me so hard when I thought he was a 19 year old sophomore, but at 21 and growing up very privileged I expect a bit more. 

Well, that's it.


----------



## Benis007

one reason that i have heard him wanting to stay in college is the fact that he is the son of a pro tennis player and his family has a lot of money.


----------



## Team Mao

Benis007 said:


> one reason that i have heard him wanting to stay in college is the fact that he is the son of a pro tennis player and his family has a lot of money.


I've heard that as well, but it makes no sense. 'My family has money so I don't want to go play in the NBA'. ?????

His draft stock will be lower next year, he could get injured (Billy Donovan knows all about having a player stay back and then get injured and destroy his career). Perhaps Noah should have a little sit down with his coach and talk about that. Dumb move to stay back when you're a top 5 pick.


----------



## shookem

Team Mao said:


> I've heard that as well, but it makes no sense. 'My family has money so I don't want to go play in the NBA'. ?????
> 
> His draft stock will be lower next year, he could get injured (Billy Donovan knows all about having a player stay back and then get injured and destroy his career). Perhaps Noah should have a little sit down with his coach and talk about that. Dumb move to stay back when you're a top 5 pick.


He's the closet thing to a player that I wouldn't want to draft. I just don't want to buy the hype. I bought into Ed O'Bannon and never forgave myself, since then I try to look at picks a little differently.


----------



## Team Mao

shookem said:


> He's the closet thing to a player that I wouldn't want to draft. I just don't want to buy the hype. I bought into Ed O'Bannon and never forgave myself, since then I try to look at picks a little differently.


Can we start a 'don't draft Noah' club? We can hang out in my treehouse and eat hotdogs and drink grape soda. Maybe even have pie on Sundays. Who wants in?


----------



## shookem

Team Mao said:


> Can we start a 'don't draft Noah' club? We can hang out in my treehouse and eat hotdogs and eat grape soda. Maybe even have pie on Sundays. Who wants in?


Only one problem. If Noah is somehow the BPA than IMO we have to draft him. It's in my dogma.


----------



## Benis007

Team Mao said:


> I've heard that as well, but it makes no sense. 'My family has money so I don't want to go play in the NBA'. ?????
> 
> His draft stock will be lower next year, he could get injured (Billy Donovan knows all about having a player stay back and then get injured and destroy his career). Perhaps Noah should have a little sit down with his coach and talk about that. Dumb move to stay back when you're a top 5 pick.


i guess he thinks that he would rather make money later than money now, no rush.


----------



## shookem

Benis007 said:


> i guess he thinks that he would rather make money later than money now, no rush.


yeah and tag all of the co-ed *** that a college sports superstar can tag.

makes perfect sense actually. after that all his relationships are going to play like a Kanye West song.


----------



## Team Mao

Benis007 said:


> i guess he thinks that he would rather make money later than money now, no rush.


His draft stock and rookie salary will not get higher than it will this year. He's getting older (21 year old sophomore) and the next two drafts look significantly stronger than this year's (especially for bigs). So would you rather make more money now or less money later? Or no money if you get injured? 
A dollar today is worth more than a dollar next year, simple economics.


----------



## shookem

Team Mao said:


> His draft stock and rookie salary will not get higher than it will this year. He's getting older (21 year old sophomore) and the next two drafts look significantly stronger than this year's (especially for bigs). So would you rather make more money now or less money later? Or no money if you get injured?
> A dollar today is worth more than a dollar next year, simple economics.


I think the point that Benis brought up was that because of his father's success and the subsequent affluent upbringing, that Noah may have a diluted concept of money. simple economics may not apply.

It would make sense for 99% of all ball players, but maybe not Noah. I still think it's just posturing though.


----------



## Benis007

sorry double post


----------



## Benis007

shookem said:


> I think the point that Benis brought up was that because of his father success and the subsequent affluent upbringing, that Noah may have a diluted concept of money. simple economics may not apply.
> 
> It would make sense for 99% of all ball players, but maybe not Noah. I still think it's just posturing though.


Exactly what i meant.

I don't disagree that his stock value couldn't be higher right now, but what if the guy plays out his 4 years, sees what happens in the draft, and if all else fails you got a college degree and a treasure chest trust fund.

More power to him.

Oden said he would like to stay for 2 or 3 seasons at OU, it would be great for the NCAA if players starting staying 2 or 3 years.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

With Noah and the Gators heading to the championship match as the favourites, things are looking pretty good for him to come out. Will be an interesting decision. 

Anyone know our odds of getting a top 3 pick if we finish with the 5th worst record? I think it was 12 or 15% with the 7th worst last season.


----------



## shookem

SkywalkerAC said:


> Anyone know our odds of getting a top 3 pick if we finish with the 5th worst record? I think it was 12 or 15% with the 7th worst last season.



I won't pretend like these are my numbers, but a member posted this in the NBA draft thread, enjoy!



> Anyway, to answer the question of the original poster here are the order of the lottery results for the last 16 years. No.5 seems to be lucky !
> 
> 2005 Original order
> 1st pick 6
> 2nd pick 1
> 3rd pick 5
> 
> 2004 Original order
> 1st pick 1
> 2nd pick 4
> 3rd pick 2
> 
> 2003 Original order
> 1st pick 1
> 2nd pick 5
> 3rd pick 2
> 
> 2002 Original order
> 1st pick 5
> 2nd pick 2
> 3rd pick 1
> 
> 2001 Original order
> 1st pick 3
> 2nd pick 8
> 3rd pick 5
> 
> 2000 Original order
> 1st pick 5
> 2nd pick 4
> 3rd pick 1
> 
> 1999 Original order
> 1st pick 3
> 2nd pick 1
> 3rd pick 13
> 
> 1998 Original order
> 1st pick 3
> 2nd pick 5
> 3rd pick 1
> 
> 1997 Original order
> 1st pick 3
> 2nd pick 5
> 3rd pick 2
> 
> 1996 Original order
> 1st pick 2
> 2nd pick 3
> 3rd pick 1
> 
> 1995 Original order
> 1st pick 5
> 2nd pick 1
> 3rd pick 4
> 
> 1994 Original order
> 1st pick 4
> 2nd pick 1
> 3rd pick 2
> 
> 1993 Original order
> 1st pick 11
> 2nd pick 5
> 3rd pick 7
> 
> 1992 Original order
> 1st pick 2
> 2nd pick 8
> 3rd pick 1
> 
> 1991 Original order
> 1st pick 5
> 2nd pick 4
> 3rd pick 3
> 
> 1990 Original order
> 1st pick 1
> 2nd pick 10
> 3rd pick 8
> 
> And here is a summary of the last 16 yrs of NBA draft Lottery.
> 
> i.e In the last 16 years, 4 teams with the 5th worst record won the lottery compared with only 3 teams with the worst record.
> 
> Original Order 1st 2nd 3rd
> 1*3 4 5
> 2*2 1 4
> 3*4 1 1
> 4*1 3 1
> 5*4 4 2
> 6*1 0 0
> 7*0 0 1
> 8*0 2 1
> 9*0 0 0
> 10*0 1 0
> 11*1 0 0
> 12*0 0 0
> 13*0 0 1


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## SkywalkerAC

shookem said:


> I won't pretend like these are my numbers, but a member posted this in the NBA draft thread, enjoy!


Maybe if those numbers were from over a couple centuries they would replicate the numbers I'm looking for, thanks for trying though. I'm looking for statiscal probabilities, not outcomes. 

I think we'll have at least a 20% chance at a top 3 pick.


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## Team Mao

If I'm not mistaken, from the numbers it looks like the 5th last team has moved into the top 3 in 10 of the last 16 lotteries. So if the odds hold true, we've got a 62% chance of moving into the top 3, a 50% chance of top 2 (8 of the past 16 years), and a 25% chance at the top pick (4 in the past 16 lottos).

This of course is assuming that past numbers hold any meaning. But if they do, the 5th team in the lotto has moved up in the lotto at a much better rate than most others, which is good for us.


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## kirk_2003

Team Mao said:


> If I'm not mistaken, from the numbers it looks like the 5th last team has moved into the top 3 in 10 of the last 16 lotteries. So if the odds hold true, we've got a 62% chance of moving into the top 3, a 50% chance of top 2 (8 of the past 16 years), and a 25% chance at the top pick (4 in the past 16 lottos).
> 
> This of course is assuming that past numbers hold any meaning. But if they do, the 5th team in the lotto has moved up in the lotto at a much better rate than most others, which is good for us.


good info. repped


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## SkywalkerAC

kirk_2003 said:


> good info. repped



lol. repped.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan

Just to get it out in public, I think the Raptors should draft Corey Belser with one of their 2nd round picks. To me its a no brainer, I can't see what people have against this guy, that he doesn't show up on draft boards at all and didn't even get invited to Portsmouth. Best defender in the nation, including shutting down Morrison numerous times, stands 6'6" tall, plays hard, shoots reasonably well (45% FG, 38% 3P, 72% FT). Absolutely the kind of guy this team needs (among others, obviously), and he's about as undervalued as you can get.


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## aizn

after watchin the championship game, how bout corey brewer for our second rounder? very tenacious defender on the perimeter.. but i dunno. he's one of a couple of people i'd want us to draft in the second round (denham brown, james white, guillermo diaz, allan ray, taj gray, josh boone (if possible)). seems like a good draft to get second round picks rather than first rounders.


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## Rhubarb

I doubt Corey will fall to our second rounder, though stranger things have happened. I wouldn't object to drafting him though; having Mo Pete, Brewer and Graham on the wings is something.


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## shookem

Here's of nice little clip of Tiago:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6279861843142300601


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## SkywalkerAC

have you guys seen this Bargnani vid?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6413229403014366549&pl=true


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## SkywalkerAC

Bargnani's first step is just so effortless. Might be the first 7 footer I've seen that actually looks like a guard making that first step. Another perimeter PF? Personally I think it would work uptempo- how the hell do you stop even the secondary break with Bosh, Charlie, and Bargnani getting up and down the court?


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## SkywalkerAC

And here's a question- how much can Morrison improve his overall athleticism?

One has to look at what he's got right now and how much work he's put into it. I think that it's obvious that he's put his work in on the court, day and night type thing, to get his body to where it is now. But how much more can it progress? 

Right now he does have a very good motor- he plays big minutes, running constantly and battling double/triple teams. As far as I know he doesn't have any real injury problems. It's been said that he doesn't "run" very well though, can something like this be remedied by pro trainers.

Next comes strength. Morrison has pretty good muscle definition for a scrawny white kid but do you really think he's hit the gym very hard to this point? Somehow I doubt it. He doesn't have a weightlifter's body obviously but NBA weight-training and some dedication (which most would agree Morrison has in spades) can work wonders. 

Morrison has great balance and coordination. You simply can't play basketball at his level without it. I think he has the athletic potential to really improve on his weaknesses and become a better player. He's not ever going to be a great defender or high flyer but with plenty of hard work I think he can get quite a bit better.

We don't talk about Morrison much around here. What do you think of his potential and his fit with the basketball team that BC will mold around Bosh and Charlie?

PG
Joey
Morrison
Charlie
Bosh

I like it. You just need the right point guard to make it work.


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## shookem

I'm not sure if Morrison could play SG. Well, I'm sure he could play SG, but I'm not sure he'd be able to guard anyone playing against him. That doesn't mean I wouldn't take him if he was available though.


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## SkywalkerAC

shookem said:


> I'm not sure if Morrison could play SG. Well, I'm sure he could play SG, but I'm not sure he'd be able to guard anyone playing against him.


No, but we've got a couple of (more) defensive minded power twos to put next to him (and in back of him) in Joey and Mo.


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## butr

Before the tourney, Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah were projected to go 7 to 14 and nowhere respectively in 2006. Noah coming in 2007.

After being two of the best players in the Tourney, they have shot up to 1 and 2 on NBAdraft.net. I don't really think it is fully warranted.

But it certainly flies in the face of someone around here with a Syracuse avatar that says performances in the tourney mean nothing.

Any comment to that? JN?


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## shookem

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
damn!

I don't think their stock is warranted either, but I don't mind seeing Morrison, Alridge and Bargnani getting pushed down a few picks.


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## speedythief

Nothing but good news having those guys projected so high.

Still, re: Martynas Andriuskevicuis, Macej Lampe, Gerald Green, etc..


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## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> Any comment to that? JN?


Yes,

1. I didn't realize the writers of NBADraft.net, were actually the NBA Gm's that drafted.

2. Yes, Noah and Thomas had great tourneys - but they showed us nothing that they had not already been showing to scouts for the entire season. Wannabe GM's on a draft site.. yep they are a reliable corollary for what an NBA gm thinks of a player throughout the season (rolleyes)

3. Funny that you make a comment about Syracuse's tourney performance.... Duke has played under its seed in 2006, 2005, 2002 and 2000.


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## butr

We put this to bed already before this post.

I was not commenting about SU. I was just IDing you, you're the only one I know with a giant SU avatar. And I remember you being really adamant about the tourney having litle effect.

I posted a quote earlier by Danny Ainge where he said he already knows who he wants, and that he hopes his guys flunk out of the tourney, lowering their value. 

That says 2 things. There are guys like Danny who don't care about the tourney, and guys for whom the tourney does effect where guys slot in.

The other post was not a shot at you or SU. I was more referring to your much earlier posts re tourney performance and stock.


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## SkywalkerAC

New word is that Splitter might have a $2 million buyout with Tau, which makes him a viable option for us, providing that he'd agree to come over. Not sure if I want him but with Noah pulling out this could be good news for the top-end of the lotto drafters.


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## speedythief

Did anybody catch Benneton playing on Raps TV today? Bargnani was there.


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## aizn

speedythief said:


> Did anybody catch Benneton playing on Raps TV today? Bargnani was there.


how was he?


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## SkywalkerAC

Don't know if he'll last that long but Juan Jose Barea has to be looked at with our second rounder. Did very well at Portsmouth. Check it out at draftexpress.

I thought James White accepted his Portsmouth invite? I guess he decided he'd stick to workouts, where he's bound to impress (unless actually matched up against other players). I heard his defense really came around with the Bearcats though. I'd like him in the second if we don't take a wing in the 1st.


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## speedythief

aizn said:


> how was he?


I only saw a bit of the game. He plays a little like Radman, with the outside-inside game. He plays with more energy than him, though. I don't know if he can play the 3 at the NBA level because I don't think he could defend anyone at that spot. Nice, nice skillset though.


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## vi3t_boi11

If Mouhamed Saer Sene is eligible , I would definately take him in the second round, he impressed everyone at the Nike Hoop Summit game, he's a 7 footer with a 7'8 wingspan from Senegal, has a solid frame with very good athleticism, his offensive game is still raw since he's onlee played 2 yrs of organized ball, did I mention he's a an amazin shot block, had 9 blocks against team USA, he has lottery type potential


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## vi3t_boi11

I caught the 4th quarter of the Benetton vs Panathanaikos game, didn't see Slokar but got to see Bargnani, he's quick for a pf, but not for sf, didn't seem to have much of a post game, floated on the perimeter, we already got two perimeter oriented big man


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## Unknownone

My gut feeling is that Brandon Roy is the player most likely to succeed @ the next level coming out of the college ranks; decent-sized for a guard, he may not be spectacular, but will be steady and looks to possess the makeup to make plays... It's not so much of a concern about his position, but moreso that he's a player, point blank - and may turn out to be a poor man's version of Dwayne Wade...


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## SkywalkerAC

Roy would be a good fit. If we're going to keep Mike James at the 1 and Charlie at the 3, I want a playmaker at the 2.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan

> Roy would be a good fit. If we're going to keep Mike James at the 1 and Charlie at the 3, I want a playmaker at the 2.


I think this is a good point, if this team is missing anything offensively, its a wide load down low, which is very hard to come by, and somebody who can create their own shot off the dribble and drive the lane. That need will be even more acute (of course, its a relative term for a team that has no real problems scoring at the moment) should we lose James, although it'd still be there even if we keep him. And Roy would be the best available fit for that need.

That being said, as butr keeps harping on, for obvious reasons, our greatest need is defense, specifically interior defense.


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## shookem

What do you guys think of this guy, Saer Sene 

Hmmm...


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## no_free_baskets

from what i read, he's much too big of a reach from where we're drafting...suppose to be still, very, very raw...i wouldnt take someone like that in top 5-8...he does seem to be a very intriguing prospect thou...


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## speedythief

shookem said:


> What do you guys think of this guy, Saer Sene
> 
> Hmmm...


The Condor!

He has less basketball experience than most of us. Talk about a long term project.

Call you in eight years!


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## no_free_baskets

not that it means anything, but heres the guy i like as of now for the draft: 

( if the raps pick from the top 5 spot)
1. aldridge...easily should be our top choice...probably wont make significant immediate impact his 1st yr, but imo, as this guy gets stronger and he works on his game more, this guy projects into a skilled 5, and we know how hard those are to find...


2. gay...probably wont be a superstar, but he has too much skill too at least not be a pretty good complementary plyr...i will take that in this seemingly weak draft...
3. bargagni...never seen the guy play so cant really say...encouraging thing is that the guy is putting up very big numbers in euro considering there reluctance to play their young plyrs over there...gasol avg., i think ive read, was something like 10 pts...bargagni is avging over 13....i will say this thou, if we draft another 4, he better project to at least fringe all-star level or else this pick becomes redundant and wasted...

4. morrison...not really interested in him...i think he'll be able to score 15+ on the next level, but imo, for him to compensate for his def. shortcomings (im sorry, the guy is just so damn slow, laterally) he'll have to avg. over 20+...im not 100% sure he can do that, plus im not really enamoured with adding another def. liability to this team
5. thomas...likewise, dont have a very high interest in him...obviously very athletic and his timing on block is certainly impressive, but hes 6'9 with a skinny frame, meaning another 4...like i said before, if the raps take another 4, he better be at least borderline all star material...thomas is just too raw for me offensively to project him at that level...hes not a good fit for this team...


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## Dee-Zy

is sow also from senegal?


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## shookem

speedythief said:


> The Condor!
> 
> He has less basketball experience than most of us. Talk about a long term project.
> 
> Call you in eight years!


Draftexpress was a recent article that has a few scouts (the head scout for the Dallas Mavericks) talking pretty nicely about the guy. 

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1263


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## shookem

Dee-Zy said:


> is sow also from senegal?


Yes he's from Dakar


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## Team Mao

What's your guys' take on O'Bryant? I've only seen a few games and one was the Pitt game. I think he's a really good centre but probably a season or two away from being a solid NBA centre (like most NBA centres).
Worth a 5?


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## l2owen

between rudy gay , morrison and brandon roy , picking up one of those guys on the raptors is still a damn good situation to be in . these guys are oozing with potential and put them next to charlie v and chris bosh , and we have a core of 3 NCAA winners irregardless of who we draft. pretty good start to the year. after striking out repeatedly , chicago caught on and began drafting guys who had proven themselves in college. hinrich, duhon, gordon , deng, etc. between those three any one would look terrific next to bosh and charlie.


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## ballocks

no_free_baskets said:


> not that it means anything, but heres the guy i like as of now for the draft:
> 
> ( if the raps pick from the top 5 spot)
> 1. aldridge...easily should be our top choice...probably wont make significant immediate impact his 1st yr, but imo, as this guy gets stronger and he works on his game more, this guy projects into a skilled 5, and we know how hard those are to find...
> 
> 
> 2. gay...probably wont be a superstar, but he has too much skill too at least not be a pretty good complementary plyr...i will take that in this seemingly weak draft...
> 3. bargagni...never seen the guy play so cant really say...encouraging thing is that the guy is putting up very big numbers in euro considering there reluctance to play their young plyrs over there...gasol avg., i think ive read, was something like 10 pts...bargagni is avging over 13....i will say this thou, if we draft another 4, he better project to at least fringe all-star level or else this pick becomes redundant and wasted...
> 
> 4. morrison...not really interested in him...i think he'll be able to score 15+ on the next level, but imo, for him to compensate for his def. shortcomings (im sorry, the guy is just so damn slow, laterally) he'll have to avg. over 20+...im not 100% sure he can do that, plus im not really enamoured with adding another def. liability to this team
> 5. thomas...likewise, dont have a very high interest in him...obviously very athletic and his timing on block is certainly impressive, but hes 6'9 with a skinny frame, meaning another 4...like i said before, if the raps take another 4, he better be at least borderline all star material...thomas is just too raw for me offensively to project him at that level...hes not a good fit for this team...



i _still_ haven't seen bargnani on the court but assuming his scouting reports are true, that would qualify 3 of the 5 listed here as being nba 4's who can be stretched to the 5. we are in a _really_ interesting position right now, man. i don't necessarily have a problem drafting another one, it could always work, but our 3 'best' kids- or best players altogether, i suppose the argument could be made- would then conceivably be playing the "same position" on the clipboard. when was the last time that happened... anywhere?

i'm not a fan of this draft (at all) but i'd certainly be interested to see how we'd work that.

peace


----------



## Toxicity

Hi guys, i've made a short mix on Andrea Bargnani (new footage inside):

http://www.sendspace.com/file/wqri60

Hope you enjoy! :cheers:


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## shookem

...and here's a Rudy Gay highlight film. It's been around for a bit and may have been posted but yeah, there's some wicked dunks in there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTfHMilglsk&search=rudy gay basketball


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