# Top International Leagues



## International Bskball (Jul 5, 2003)

Anyone have a list of what they would consider the top group of international leagues? Im tryin to come up with a list, so I wanted to get a few other's opinions. Thanks.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

# 1 - NBA U.S.A.
# 2 - ACB Spain
# 3 - A1 Italy


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## Hrvoje (Jun 28, 2003)

Top European leagues (my list):

1.Spanish league

2.Italian l.

3.Greek l.

4.German l.

5.Adriatic l.

6.French l.


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## kingl (Jun 21, 2003)

Is German League that good?


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## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

no


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## International Bskball (Jul 5, 2003)

It's decent...I dont think its one of the best, but it's allright.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> 4.German l.


??? ... ??? 
I ran out of words...


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## Hrvoje (Jun 28, 2003)

Oh, Matiz I forgot to place Slovenian league on 4th place , why don`t you put your list then. I think that the first three leagues are really good , while the others are decent.


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## Hrvoje (Jun 28, 2003)

Turkish league is also quite good.


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

My ranking

1.Spain
2.Italy
3.Greece

After those 3, it's really a matter of opinion

4. Adriatic League
5. Turkey
6.Serbia
7.France
8.Germany
9.Croatia
10.Belgium
11.Poland


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

*Interesting*

Here's some interesting stuff I found on the website eurobasket.com

http://www.eurobasket.com/rankings1.asp

It ranks the countries according to how they performed in european competitions from 1958 to 2003. Here are the criteria taken into account:

Number of teams that took part
Number of participations
Trophies won 
Games played
Wins
Draws
Losses
Points scored
Points against
Points scored differential


Here are the results

1 Italy 
2 Spain 
3 France 
4 Greece 
5 Croatia 
6 Israel 
7 Turkey 
8 Belgium 
9 Yugoslavia 
10 Russia 
11 Germany 
12 Slovenia 
13 Poland 
14 Czech Republic 
15 Lithuania 
16 Bulgaria 
17 Netherlands 
18 Portugal 
19 Hungary 
20 Bosnia 
21 Austria 
22 Ukraine 
23 Sweden 
24 Finland 
25 England 
26 Switzerland 
27 Romania 
28 Slovakia 
29 Latvia 
30 FYR Macedonia 
31 Cyprus 
32 Estonia 
33 Georgia 
34 Albania 
35 Luxembourg 
36 Scotland 
37 Iceland 
38 Belarus 
39 Egypt 
40 Morocco
41 Denmark 
42 Ireland 
43 Norway 
44 Moldova 
45 Syria 
46 Lebanon 
47 Tunisia 
48 Wales 
49 San Marino 
50 Armenia 
51 Malta 
52 Northern Ireland 

Strange to see some African countries in this ranking


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

European leagues:
1 Spain
2 Italy
3 Turkey
4 Greece
5 Russia/France/Germany

German league is well organised, but has no powerhouses and there are a lot of leagues who suffer from lack of depth (Slovenia, Lithuania...).
And please don't put Adriatic league here. It's international competition like Euroleague.

I wonder about strenght of Brasilian, Argentinian and Australian leagues...


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## Hrvoje (Jun 28, 2003)

> And please don't put Adriatic league here. It's international competition like Euroleague.


Adriatic league isn't exactly standard league like Spain or Greece where only one nation have their clubs, but to say it's competition like Euroleague it's a little off, don't you think?Basically, A. league is competition with ex YU clubs with exception of Maccabi who won't compete this year.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Adriatic league is on 3rd place in europe... the end.


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## ostend (Jun 8, 2003)

All i can say is that belgium league has 2 decent teams and thanks to those we can defeat teams of croatia , germany and france easily(sometimes)


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>brazys</b>!
> European leagues:
> 1 Spain
> 2 Italy
> ...


Turkey above Greece? You must be joking right?
Turkey has 2 teams (Ulker-Efes) and all the rest are teams of the level of Armenian Basketball.

Greece has teams like PAO, Olympiakos, AEK (OK they sucked last year) Peristeri, PAOK, Aris (won the Champions Cup), Maroussi etc, etc.....

The french league isn't above the Greeks either. 

The greek league might not be as strong as it used to be (It was the best league in Europe in the late 90's (1996-2000)), but it is definately better than the rest, excluding of course Spain and Italy


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## Hrvoje (Jun 28, 2003)

> Adriatic league is on 3rd place in europe... the end.


He-he, agreed, so Matiz what's your opinion about group A in Euroleague, it seems like another epic battle between Cibona, Union Olimpija and Partizan.


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>brazys</b>!
> European leagues:
> 1 Spain
> 2 Italy
> ...


Brazilian league is ok, not so strong but its competitive. There are many american players, even former NBA players. Most players of our national team still play in Brazil, this makes the league strong. Our teams are the strongest in south america. Followed by the argentinians, venezuelans and uruguayans.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

that's my european rankings at the moment (for many reasons)

1 - Spain
2 - Italy
3 - Greece
4 - France
5 - Germany
6 - Turkey (=Istambul   ) 
7 - Israel
8 - Russia

Then the rest


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

Hey italianBBlover, are you really a Berlusconi fan?


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JGKoblenz</b>!
> Hey italianBBlover, are you really a Berlusconi fan?


Yeah, Italover. I used to like you man, but when I saw that sig I started thinking otherwise,


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JGKoblenz</b>!
> Hey italianBBlover, are you really a Berlusconi fan?


Yes

Problems ? or now you think that I'm a fascist, a mafioso etc like the european communists say about Berlusconi and the italians ? 

Grettings 

@ Zelena Hracka : I'm sorry you think so


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes
> ...


I only think that you support AC Milan. leave Silvio and his laundered money alone


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes
> ...


No problems. No hard feelings.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JGKoblenz</b>!
> 
> 
> No problems. No hard feelings.


Sorry for my last post a bit "acid" , but in these last days I've read and heard many ridiculous things ...

Gretz do Brasil


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>guilherme.rcf</b>!
> 
> 
> I only think that you support AC Milan. leave Silvio and his laundered money alone


Yes, I'm a AC Milan supporter, but I'm a fan since 1982, 4 years before Berlusconi.

I understand what you are trying to say ... but this says nothing. 

One famous Milan's supporter is the president of the italian communist party  

Saluti


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

Guilherme, JGK, Zelena, "are you tourists of democracy?" 
I know they are making a movie about the concentraption camps in Italy, I'll propose you for the role of kapo'. You'd be perfect!  


Koblenz, don't ban me please! I'm ironic, let's laugh! You know, we the Italians we have a particular culture of jokes. We can pass the tragedies in an ironic and hilarious way too!   

Take care, SEOK from the Republic of :banana:


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm a AC Milan supporter, but I'm a fan since 1982, 4 years before Berlusconi.
> ...


 I just said that because I already knew that you are from the north, and I doubt that the fans of Inter like Silvio. I dont know if he is good for the italian people, but he should be. And if I was a support of AC Milan I would love Berlusconi. I dont care about what he do with his money. 

*I like AC Milan, I have a jersey, bought in 96 i think, with the scudetto.


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> Guilherme, JGK, Zelena, "are you tourists of democracy?"
> I know they are making a movie about the concentraption camps in Italy, I'll propose you for the role of kapo'. You'd be perfect!
> 
> ...


I really didn't get your joke man.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

Guys...

What about the other US leagues.

NBDL, CBA, USBL! they are all very strong.

Another league is the Australian NBL. It has traditionally been in the upper echelon of leagues around the world. Definately in the top 10.


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>guilherme.rcf</b>!
> 
> 
> I really didn't get your joke man.


Some days ago, at the first day of the Italian half-year presidency of the European Union, a German member of the European parliament attacked Berlusconi, telling something like "if you would have not created laws to protect yourself, you wouldn't be here". 
Then, Berlusconi answered with the sentence "I know they are making a movie about the concentraption camps in Italy, I'll propose you for the role of kapo'". 
Silence in the hall. 
Then Berlusconi, with his classical (idiot) smile, continued: "You'd be perfect!"

This started a diplomatic embarrassment between Italy and Germany (but not only: in the same political environment of the Italian right practically all the parties didn't exactly "agree" with Berlusconi. Only the Lega Nord.". Germany asked official apologies from Berlusconi, who refused. 
In a press conference, the same day, Berlusconi said that he was provoked by this German deputy, and added that: "I'm ironic. You know, we the Italians we have a particular culture of jokes. We can pass the tragedies in an ironic and hilarious way too!"

Practically, he justified himself with the fact that in Italy there are many jokes about the holocaust. "Because Italians can pass the tragedies making irony too!". 
How you can easily imagine, the Italian Jewish Community was very glad to hear that.... 

Take care, SEOK from Republic of :banana:


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!
> 
> 
> Problems ? or now you think that I'm a fascist, a mafioso etc like the european communists say about Berlusconi and the italians ?


I don't know about you but Berlusconi based his government on a coalition with neo-fascists (Bossi and Fini). So that makes him a fascist too in my eyes. And everyone knows Berlusconi's ties with the mafia are tightly knit (if not, why would he create laws to protect himself from judges of a democratic country?)


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know about you but Berlusconi based his government on a coalition with neo-fascists (Bossi and Fini). So that makes him a fascist too in my eyes. And everyone knows Berlusconi's ties with the mafia are tightly knit (if not, why would he create laws to protect himself from judges of a democratic country?)


Wich neo-fascist ? fascis is illegal.

And then : ahaha, Bossi a fascist ? Bossi's fans are fascist-haters !

And Gianfranco Fini is a post-fascist, his party is a moderate-right party.

What do you want know about Italy and Berlusconi in your country ? only what say your factious news-papers, TVs and politicians !

Gretz

PS Seok : you are simply ridiculous 

PS 2 return to telle about basketball, please


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> 
> Another league is the Australian NBL. It has traditionally been in the upper echelon of leagues around the world. Definately in the top 10.


I don't know too much about the NBL, but I heard good things about it. Is there some international players?


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

Yes, there is a two import league rule.

There have been many very classy americans come and play here. On top of that, due to the very high standard, many of the elite players from here stay in our own professional league rather than head overseas. 

Guys like 

Andrew Gaze (who is second after Oscar Schmidt in all time Olympics scoring)
Mark Bradtke
Shane Heal
Ben Melmeth (Utah)
John Rillie (Gonzaga) just to name a few.

Alot of the Americans have loved it here so much that they have stayed on and become Australian Citizens after the 8 year period required. 

Just to name a few guys who have been out here in recent times.

Kevin Freeman from UCONN
Chris Williams .... Virginia
Dave Thomas ....Michigan State
just to name a few.
Adam Ballinger from Michigan State will be playing here this coming season for the Victoria Titans.


Check out the league website if you want.

NBL Link


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## [email protected][email protected]~ (Oct 9, 2002)

I agree with most of the posts about the leagues...
Unfortunately, the lower economic standards of the most Greek teams brought our league to the third place of the list.

Here is my list

1. Spanish
2. Italian
3. Greek
4. Russian (various good and rich teams) & French
5. Israeli’s & Turkish
6. German, Slovenian, Serbian, Lithuanian
7. Polish, Belgium... and goes on

Something more, we can't consider the Adriatic League as a national league or as a league that could be part of this list. Adriatic League is considered a good international league since teams from various countries -that compete in their national leagues- take place. Nevertheless, if it was to join my list, it could grab the 4th place because of his depth and quite good organization.




___________


Fascicm "italianBBlover" automatically becomes… legal only when having neo-fascists and neo-racists (when talking colloquially we call them pigs) in power. For other Europeans as me, mister Silvio is a r*a*t like Mussolini was. 
I don't give a sh:upset:it if he is il president of Milan or if he was my team's Panionios giving out money for me to cheer about when watching football...
Hasn't he bonds with mafia? Yes he has. Whoever is his "enemy", for him is a leftist or a communist... (like the one that his... caps killed in Genova! remember that, ha? - Carlo lives!)
Hasn't he bonds with the jury? Convicted four times on charges of perjury, falsifying financial records, tax offences and bribery!!! Yes he controls a big part of the Italian judicial system, so he always gets away.
Isn't he an extremist? He is the modern flamboyant demagogue with extremist allies, head of a far-right-tilting, populist coalition that embraces openly racist and neo-fascist parties.
Hasn't he bonds with the mass media? Yes! In fact he controls the majority of the mass media in Italy. 
He controls the media, so that to control the news flow; in simple words,he manipulates the news. Berlusconi owns three private television channels and controls the state broadcaster RAI. A daily newspaper L'Unita, a political weekly magazine called Panorama and RCS Media Group are also his. This holding media group owns Corriere della Sera, one of the greatest Italian papers that sells around 650.000-700000 per day. Couple of months ago he enforced this newspapers editor De Bortoli to resign. Is this or isn’t a modern-era dictatorship? The question is rhetoric, we all know what it is…

And what to say about Fini! Dark ages are back... Mister Gianfranco Fini, is a politician who had cut his teeth as leader the Italian Social Movement (MSI- am I correct? Yes, I am pal), Europe's oldest neo-fascist party! Didn't he came up on agreement with mister Fascist (sorry... mister Silvio) and renamed it to National Alliance back in 1994? Yes he did...

I'm fed up with your obscurantism and I wish you change your way of thinking. Life isn't only Nesta, Dida and Shevchenko...

Lift your skinny fists like antennas to heaven! 

-I wish, under the democratic spirit of the board, this response to the previous posts to stay in here and not be deleted or removed-

-JGKoblenz: Viva Lula!  
Lula-lá! Brilha uma estrela! 
Lula-lá! Cresce a esperança! 
Lula-lá! No Brasil criança 
e na alegria de se abraçar...


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Pity Netrino ... I'm without words ... how much lies and ridiculous things ! how many common places ! 

And last thing : Carlo want to die ! If someone is throwing to me a fire-extinguisher , I shoot him ! 
Have you see the violence of you friends with a lot of bolts in the Carabinieri's jeep ? 

Yea ... peace and love .... 

And now I'm waiting to see what will happen on 5 september ... when your friends will come here in my town ( during a world meeting of ministers for foreign affairs). 

Bah

PS ignorant ... "L'Unita" is the news-organ of the Left-Party  :sour: 

And then do you want to teach us what is democracy and bla bla bla ? :laugh:


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## Just dunk it (Jun 20, 2003)

I think the first three are without any doubts:

1.Spain
2.Italy
3.Greece

Greetings.


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## [email protected][email protected]~ (Oct 9, 2002)

Nice arguements conformist pal... nice arguements... 
Your full of arguements post, answered to everything -mafia and the bonds with the jury and the charges of perjury, falsifying financial records, tax offences and bribery, the extremist allies, the control of the media, the enforcement of an editor that openly criticized him to resign, his relationship with Gianfranco Fini and the renaming of the fascists party that he led to the power! You've covered it all...  But do you have to say?
Yes and I wrote it and it is obvious... and everyone knows it that ****y Silvio penetrated the L'Unita by buying shares. It's the penetration on the otherside press that gives him the opportunity to control the news flow... 

starvydas talked and he is is wrong (but he is not and you know it), Seok talked and he was stated from you as simply ridiculous and I gave you facts that can't be overthrown and I am pity! 
And you? What are you?  

It won't be only my friends... 
C U in Italy's streets :yes:


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>[email protected][email protected]~</b>!
> Nice arguements conformist pal... nice arguements...
> Your full of arguements post, answered to everything -mafia and the bonds with the jury and the charges of perjury, falsifying financial records, tax offences and bribery, the extremist allies, the control of the media, the enforcement of an editor that openly criticized him to resign, his relationship with Gianfranco Fini and the renaming of the fascists party that he led to the power! You've covered it all...  But do you have to say?
> Yes and I wrote it and it is obvious... and everyone knows it that ****y Silvio penetrated the L'Unita by buying shares. It's the penetration on the otherside press that gives him the opportunity to control the news flow...
> ...


This isn't the place for this thema and my english is too poor to answer you well.
But let me say : what want you know in Greece about Italy ? only from you left-friends ! naturally all factious lies and bull*hit.

What extremist ? neofascist Forza Nuova and Fiamma Tricolore aren't Berlusconi allies and they hate Berlusconi and Fini !
And sorry : why you don't tell of the left-extremist friend of Bertinotti&C ? 

Which control of the Media ?! on the former Berlusconi's TVs there a lot of left-people that can speak without problem against Berlusconi and the italian government.

Why do you want know well our country from 2-3,000 kilometers ? 

The actual european "war" of the international Left versus Bush, Aznar, Berlusconi is uncredible and ridiculos ! I've no words to describe it ... 

STOP IT

This is a basketball boards 

I don't want tell again about those commies things.

Gretz


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

While I agree with Italianbballlover that Europe's "resistance" to the war in Iraq was a joke, I think everyone here agrees that what he said to that german guy wasn't very smart and it doesn't give a good name to Italians, especially if you think about what that other guy (the minister of tourism or something) said about germans.

I hope you agree with that, don't you bballlover?


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

:upset:


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>qwertyu</b>!
> I think everyone here agrees that what he said to that german guy wasn't very smart and it doesn't give a good name to Italians,
> 
> I hope you agree with that, don't you bballlover?


But have you see what Herr Schultz said about our government and country ? 

Berlusconi has got only a "defect" : he says what he thinks 
 

But please ... now stop it with those things ... return to tell about our dear sport.

'night


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

so all those things @[email protected] pointed out are just leftist lies?

do really think someone throwing a fire-extinguisher at you deserves to be shot?


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>[email protected][email protected]~</b>
> 
> 
> Fascicm "italianBBlover" automatically becomes… legal only when having neo-fascists and neo-racists (when talking colloquially we call them pigs) in power. For other Europeans as me, mister Silvio is a r*a*t like Mussolini was.
> ...


Netrino how come I can't vote for you? You just deserved yourself a five star rating.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> 
> 
> Netrino how come I can't vote for you? You just deserved yourself a five star rating.


Well ... the people from *France* can only be mute  

Left-wingers that vote for Chirac ... a Right-wing president that support the left-pacifism ... ( oil contracts with Saddam :angel: ) etc etc etc .............
And also Chiri has problem with justice, no ? 

bah 

I say again : please, stop it with this thema on a basketball board !


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> I say again : please, stop it with this thema on a basketball board !


 LOL So why are you even replying to my post? It wasn't even destined to you. 



> Well ... the people from *France* can only be mute


Whatever that means. 



> Left-wingers that vote for Chirac ... a Right-wing president that support the left-pacifism ... ( oil contracts with Saddam :angel: ) etc etc etc .............
> And also Chiri has problem with justice, no ?


Yes Berlusconi and Chirac are very comparable. Like Berlusconi, Chirac is a populist and blames all his country's problems on immigrants and wants to deport them, and has hence made alliances with neo-fascists (Front National). Like Berlusconi, Chirac is corrupted and hides away from the judges and, as Berlusconi, just passed a law that will be enable him not to be tried. 
Like Berlusconi, Chirac cuts taxes for the wealthiest and increases the burden on poor people by increasing "flexibility" in companies. 

But hey at least I'm not blinded enough by the media not to see it and I try to do something about it, which does not seem to be your case.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> 
> Yes Berlusconi and Chirac are very comparable. Like Berlusconi, Chirac is a populist and blames all his country's problems on immigrants and wants to deport them, and has hence made alliances with neo-fascists (Front National). Like Berlusconi, Chirac is corrupted and hides away from the judges and, as Berlusconi, just passed a law that will be enable him not to be tried.
> Like Berlusconi, Chirac cuts taxes for the wealthiest and increases the burden on poor people by increasing "flexibility" in companies.
> ...


1 - Berlusconi said never that immigration cause all the italian problems; the *illegal* immigration brings many problems !

2 - Berlscuoni isn't allied with the neo-fascist ! "Forza Nuova" and "Fiamma Tricolore" *hate* Berlusconi !

3 - the "famous" law says simply that some state's office ( president of Republic, prime minister, president of the senate etc) can't be processes *during* a warrant; but after the warrant the prime minister or president etc can be processed without problems !
That for prevent instrumentializations.

4 - the taxes for the smaller factories are lower and the lowest pensions are now of 550 € every month ( before they were only 300 or 400 too ); and I see this from my Grandmama's pension too ...

5 - "flexibility" is a good thing.

6 - you are blinded by the leftist medias like many other european peoples  

Grettings


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

[


> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>[email protected][email protected]~</b>!
> (like the one that his... caps killed in Genova! remember that, ha? - Carlo lives!)











Carlo Giuliani (3-14-1978 / 7-20-2001, murdered by the Italian State

Carlo lives always in our hearts


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> 
> Carlo Giuliani (3-14-1978 / 7-20-2001, murdered by the Italian State
> 
> Carlo lives always in our hearts


Oh yes ... the poor "_good boy_" that was throwing a *fire-extinguiser* to the head of a Carabiniere, while the Carlo's friends were striking with *bars* the other Carabinieris in the jeep ... 

Please, stop it with this *Hypocrisy* :upset: :dead: 

If he was at his home or simply in a quiet procession, he may be living ! 

And that's a basketball boards, not a communist wall


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## [email protected][email protected]~ (Oct 9, 2002)

This may not be a communist wall (as I said in a previous post and you seem to be a good Silvio hybrid, whoever is not by your conformist-xenophobic-racists-antisocial side is a communist...) but it's not also a fascists' board of Ali Baba and his thieves! 
Got it boy, ha?  
If you want to call us something, "open-minded human beings" sounds better.

If activists were staying at their homes, watching tv or drinking coffee at times of protesting you may were a modern-slave in the hands of the few rich ones... Or you may like it... Modern enslavery, gaps between the developed (they usually call themselves civilized...!) and undeveloped countries (they are the poor, the bad, the slaves and the terrorists...lol)....


















like it, ha? You like viewing how many people people earn less than a $1 per day?










Can you see it? The income of the richest 1% (50 million people) is the same as the income of the poorest 60% (2.7 BILLION people). 

If you create such inequalities by taking over the sources of those countries and you supress them politically and economically, you know what you get? You create immigration waves. If you want them struggling slaves in their own countries and not in your country were they could live and create, you close the boards and you call them illegal (because of fears of stealing, of viruses, of working in jobs of your citizens...). 
So , you feed them with infant mortality (The... civilized don't even provide them with medicines), poor health systems (oh, they bomb their hospitals...), you let them live in illiteracy (because they have to work from their 8th or 10th year of age in order to survive while the few ones in the rich countries enroll their future economic development!) 

That's about immigration... and I simply don't find it interesting replying to your other weak, obscurantic and trembling arguments about shooting, provoking, human rights... 

Most probably for you, human rights are nothing more or less than a sh(ee)it of papers signed by fools. And if you don't accept the living human's rights, how could you even show respect to a dead man... (Remember the scene of the cop driving repeatdly the jeep over the dead body of Carlo? The Italian jury set free even this cop!)

Leave it boy... Your phrase *" Why do you want know well our country from 2-3,000 kilometers ? The actual european "war" of the international Left versus Bush, Aznar, Berlusconi is uncredible and ridiculos ! I've no words to describe it ..." * speaks by itself about your way of thinking.


starvydas, thanx for the responses! Lift your skinny fists like antennas to heaven!


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

... globalization is a movement which could eventually (in final stage) fix those problems written above...


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

Well Matiz my graduation thesis was about the income gap between the developped countries and the "developping" countries, which are anything but developping actually, more like underdevelopped and I can tell you that globalization will only make things worse. The rich will get richer and the poor will be exploited even more.

Hey Netrino you like Godspeed you black Emperor? Have you been to any of there concerts? 
Those charts about world inequality.

I just read what bballlover said about that kid Carlo Giulliani and I'm appaled. Even if you disagree with his political views you should at least respect the fact that he died while he was fighting for his ideals. 
Now if you want to support Berlusconi because he brings players like Nesta and Shevchenko to your favorite team what can I say...


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

I'm studying economy and we had one german economist talking about how globalization should act in the final stage... look what globalization did to China and its economy... I'm too tired to argue with you, but I believe Antiglobalization is just another popular comunistic- neoliberal movement... no offense, things i'm stating here are still just a theorys...


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