# 1-on-1 with Ainge



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Celts boss looks ahead, and back



> Q: You’re finishing your fourth season here. How long did you think it would take before this team was ready to be a factor in the playoffs?
> 
> A: “I had hoped we’d be doing some things now, but one thing that Red (Auerbach) always told me was that sometimes the best deals are the ones you don’t make. But it’s difficult to be patient. Initially we were just trying to acquire as much talent as we could, and even though we traded Antoine (Walker), I don’t think that took away from the thought that we were trying to add talent and young athletes. We’ve kind of stuck to that plan, and now I think we do have young talent that’s developing. At this point we’re grateful that we’ve not done some deals, and even as tough as this year was, there are some very bright spots for our future. I think we’ll be rewarded for being patient.”
> 
> ...


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

The deals you don't make?? Like the one you (Danny) could have opted us out of so we could take Brandon Roy last year???
Sigh. 

What's unrealistic is being able to afford holding to this strategy as fewer and fewer people fill the seats at the Garden.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Like trading Big Al for A.I.


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## DaBosox (Apr 10, 2007)

Let me interject Danny. I obviously don't know what's "really" going on. I don't see when you all have cake on someone's birthday, when you had trust falls to build confidence, and on Hawaiian shirt Friday. All I know is this team blows *hard* at basketball right now. 

But then again, I don't know what's really going on and those difficult decisions you've had to make. Mea culpa.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Ainge should be fired as GM and hired as coach. He wasn't a horrible coach, if I recall correctly (though he did quit to be with his family, right?). The Celts need a real GM.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Ainge isn't going to coach the Celtics. If he decides to leave his duty as general manager [presiden to basketball...], he's gone from Boston.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I'd be interested in Ainge taking the Isiah Thomas Challenge...though I would hope that he would only get a new contract when he was actually successful.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

agoo101284 said:


> I'd be interested in Ainge taking the Isiah Thomas Challenge.


I agree, Danny _should_ take on the Isiah Thomas Challenge...and go rebuild the New York Knicks. I'll feel a little sorry for long-suffering Knicks fans, but hey, we Boston fans deserve a break. We haven't had competent management since Jan Volk.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Thanks to Ainge a lot of the mess has been cleaned up. The future looks bright.


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## DaBosox (Apr 10, 2007)

Causeway said:


> Thanks to Ainge a lot of the mess has been cleaned up. The future looks bright.


Does your first name begin with D and end with anny Ainge? I'm pretty convinced right now.

I'm also going to give it my best effort to bring you onto the dark side of Celtics fans...the ones who think that things are not all well and good with the Celtics and things must be changed. You're my new favorite project.

So, to start this debate: I'm of the opinion that he has hit 5 singles and a home run in the draft. However, remember that Jefferson, Green, and Perk were all projected much higher.

His transactions: Asides from Jiri for Ricky, horrible. We could be sitting on Brandon Roy, Ricky, Pierce, Garnett, and Jefferson if he pulled the proper strings at the proper times. Not to mention the flexibility to resign most of them.

His management: I believe in Shira's article he mentions that the blams rests solely on the players. What a motivator, and the words I have on this topic from being an mba just don't do it justice.

The brightness of the future is all on a 38.7% chance of a top two pick on May 22nd now, instead of a coherent plan. So please Causeway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the future. Because I'm a little bit jaded.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

DaBosox - welcome to the board! It is refreshing to have someone who may not have the same opinion, but can say it in a respectful and intelligent way. Stick around!

And no - I am not Danny Ainge, just probably the only guy in here who thinks he has done a decent job - based on what he had to start with - which as stated before - the Celtics long-term future when Ainge took over in 2003 (two good players, no cap room, no quality young players under 25 years-old, no chips to trade other than future first-rounders), he deserves credit for building the foundation.

Our future is brigher than the current draft pick. But the pick will help a lot, even if it's not 1/2 (although 1/2 would be very very very nice). 

Rondo has been fantastic (19 points, nine assists and six steals last night by the way), Big Al is looking like a stud, West and Gomes are very solid, Perks has potential (and locked up for relatively low $), we still have Pierce, Ratlif is going into the last year of his contract, Green at the minimum has trade value, Powe is starting to look nice, Allen before he went down was looking fantastic.

I respect that I am your new project to join the dark side - but it's not going to happen. I saw enough of the dark side pre-Ainge. What's going on now is a slower process that takes some patience - but we are closer than people think. And the credit goes to Ainge.

But again welcome - nothing wrong with a rational, healthy debate. We could use more of those - instead of the all too often "pick one line out of a post, and reply with sarcasm".


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## BackwoodsBum (Jul 2, 2003)

Causeway said:


> And no - I am not Danny Ainge, just probably the only guy in here who thinks he has done a decent job - based on what he had to start with - which as stated before - the Celtics long-term future when Ainge took over in 2003 (two good players, no cap room, no quality young players under 25 years-old, no chips to trade other than future first-rounders), he deserves credit for building the foundation.


Nope, not the only one, just one of a select few  The team he took over was a playoff team, but nowhere near being a contender for a championship and the only place they were going was down. This team isn't a contender either, but there are some very nice pieces and for the first time in many years we have a long term outlook that doesn't include looking forward to getting waxed in the playoffs and getting another mediocre player late in the draft each year. Has Ainge done a perfect job, no. But given the crap he inherited and the financial restrictions placed on him by the owners I think he has done a pretty good job.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

BackwoodsBum said:


> This team isn't a contender ... and for the first time in many years we have a long term outlook that doesn't include looking forward to getting waxed in the playoffs


True, I guess that's the bright side to having one of the worst teams in the NBA, we don't need to worry about getting waxed in the playoffs.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Causeway said:


> And no - I am not Danny Ainge, just probably the only guy in here who thinks he has done a decent job - based on what he had to start with - which as stated before - the Celtics long-term future when Ainge took over in 2003 (two good players, no cap room, no quality young players under 25 years-old, no chips to trade other than future first-rounders), he deserves credit for building the foundation.
> 
> Our future is brigher than the current draft pick. But the pick will help a lot, even if it's not 1/2 (although 1/2 would be very very very nice).
> 
> Rondo has been fantastic (19 points, nine assists and six steals last night by the way), Big Al is looking like a stud, West and Gomes are very solid, Perks has potential (and locked up for relatively low $), we still have Pierce, Ratlif is going into the last year of his contract, Green at the minimum has trade value, Powe is starting to look nice, Allen before he went down was looking fantastic.


Ainge made a couple of decent trades - a long time ago. His draft day moves last year were awful, that much is clear. Telfair is terrible. The Rondo pick was good, I'll admit that. Jefferson could be good, if he decides to care (which looks iffy to me). For the Celts' sake, I hope he does care. Or else I hope they pick Oden and deal Jefferson to Memphis for Gasol. Allen looked good, too. On the other hand, West and Gomes are rotation players at best. They cannot start for a playoff team. They're simply not that good. Ratliff's contract might not be worth as much as people think it is. It would have been far more valuable last year in a Garnett deal, IMO.

The previous poster hit the nail on the head: Ainge's future is tied to the 1st and 2nd pick. If he picks anywhere other than 1st or 2nd, all of the moves over the last year are for nothing. It seems to me that he can't decide what kind of team he wants. This year he wanted the Suns. Previously, he tried to build like the Spurs. FWIW, I had the same concerns about the Raptors until Colangelo came on board.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

I can't say that we're better off since Danny took over the team. 
We've still got some very weighty contracts that we're getting very little return on. 
There is the POTENTIAL for a bright future, but we've had that for some time now. When do results start to count?


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## BackwoodsBum (Jul 2, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> True, I guess that's the bright side to having one of the worst teams in the NBA, we don't need to worry about getting waxed in the playoffs.


Would you rather have a team that doesn't make the playoffs for a couple of years while building towards the future or a team that gets embarrassed in the first round each year with no hope for anything more??? I guess you've already made your choice clear...All Hail Mediocrity


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

BackwoodsBum said:


> Would you rather have a team that doesn't make the playoffs for a couple of years while building towards the future or a team that gets embarrassed in the first round each year with no hope for anything more??? I guess you've already made your choice clear...All Hail Mediocrity


I'm sorry, but the first round embarrassments are a legacy of the _Ainge_ regime, not his predecessor. The Pilsbury Draftboy managed to construct a team that actually _won_ in the postseason despite making more bad personnel moves than anyone this side of Dr. StrAingelove.;


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## DaBosox (Apr 10, 2007)

ehmunro said:


> I'm sorry, but the first round embarrassments are a legacy of the _Ainge_ regime, not his predecessor. The Pilsbury Draftboy managed to construct a team that actually _won_ in the postseason despite making more bad personnel moves than anyone this side of Dr. StrAingelove.;


Match point: Munro. We were in the ECF before Doc Straingebeck took the helm. What happened afterwards? When you have two superstars in their prime, you build around them, not try to craft a new "system" and fit your own pieces in. After the walker trade the best thing he could have done was trade pierce, unload as many chips as possible for draft picks(rodney, eric williams, battie, etc).

He's gone about this rebuilding phase only partially, even though with our record it looks like we're full on. He's half assed it, and this is NOT good GMing.

PS, the reason why we have so many "trading chips?" It's our draft position. Since I posted at Loscy's every single person there was in agreement with who would be left at our spot and Ainge made easy choices there. Sorry guys, I'l pass on the kool aid.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Wrong. More than one of those young players came from trading for picks - not just from draft position. As for Pierce - maybe he should have been traded. I see it as a good thing that we got rid of everyone else - and managed to hold onto Pierce.


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## DaBosox (Apr 10, 2007)

Which has netted us a grand total of Rondo so far. After the first round of a draft picks become etremely useless. I'm not saying he's bad, but the overall point stands. We've had 15, 12, and 7 picks over the past few years and we've pulled in Bassy, Perk, and Jefferson. Jefferson is worth something, and something short of a max deal for sure(still don't see a D in his name though), and two players who should sign their next contracts with tel aviv.

By all means chip away at my argument. I'm still looking to be swayed to the "Danny Ainge is a good GM and we should keep him" camp. So far I've made a pretty good case that a message board is as good at his strongest area (the draft) without any other evidence on his other responsibilities as GM.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

More than Rondo - and Rondo more more than "not bad", he is looking fantastic. But let's go over some draft picks:

'03: Perkins taken at #27 (from Memphis).

'04: Al Jefferson taken at #15.
West (from Dallas) taken at 24.
Tony Allen taken at #25.

'05: Gerald Green taken at 18.
Gomes taken at #50, Gomes is hardly "extremely useless".

'06: Rondo, taken at #21. In my opinion he will be the starting PG for years to come in Boston. And that is a good thing. We no longer need to look for a PG. 

Powe (from Denver) taken at #46 

Bassy so far has no question been a big disappointment. But again, that trade was more to move Raef's contact than anything else.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Causeway said:


> More than Rondo - and Rondo more more than "not bad", he is looking fantastic. But let's go over some draft picks:
> 
> '03: Perkins taken at #27 (from Memphis).
> 
> ...


Wouldn't the Celtics be better off with Roy even if they still had LaFrentz's contract? That trade is pretty hard to justify. As for the picks, Rondo's showing promise and progress (the latter being the key) and Jefferson was a good pick. West and Perkins are role players at best. Powe is useless. Green is a wildcard. He's a good pick but he needs to show progress like Rondo has.

Overall, I think the biggest indictment of Ainge is that he was unable to get a deal done. Nobody else wants this collection of "talent" (other than Jefferson or Green) in return for a star player to play with Pierce. If Oden goes to Boston, he should not hesitate to send Jefferson and contracts to Memphis for Gasol.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Memphis X had an excellent post about Chris Mullin and the Warriors a few days ago. General managers, today, are too afraid of trading away a promising prospect because there is a small chance that the prospct will become a star [Ike Diogu for the Warriors], but this line of thinking only results in keeping the prospect until he usually only realizes a fraction of his potential, while his trade value declines. The idea that Mullin is now embracing and Danny Ainge should embrace is that drafting talent is fine, but trading that talent at his highest value, early in their career, for veteran players that will win makes championship teams. Delonte West should have been traded last offseason. Al Jefferson should be traded this offseason. Gerald Green needs one more year, but Ainge has to make a decision on him. In today's NBA, you cannot let a player that is basing their career on potential go through their rookie contract. Before that contract extension eligible year, you have to decide whether this guy should belong with the team.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Valid point Prem.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Premier said:


> Memphis X had an excellent post about Chris Mullin and the Warriors a few days ago. General managers, today, are too afraid of trading away a promising prospect because there is a small chance that the prospct will become a star [Ike Diogu for the Warriors], but this line of thinking only results in keeping the prospect until he usually only realizes a fraction of his potential, while his trade value declines. The idea that Mullin is now embracing and Danny Ainge should embrace is that drafting talent is fine, but trading that talent at his highest value, early in their career, for veteran players that will win makes championship teams. Delonte West should have been traded last offseason. Al Jefferson should be traded this offseason. Gerald Green needs one more year, but Ainge has to make a decision on him. In today's NBA, you cannot let a player that is basing their career on potential go through their rookie contract. Before that contract extension eligible year, you have to decide whether this guy should belong with the team.


I wish I still had it, but Tom Toner wrote an article about this on Hoops Boston v1 three or four years ago. He looked at the problem from both sides, because not only do you have to know which of your own kids to clean out, but you should know which younger players to pick off other people's rosters. He had worked up a list of younger players that turned the corner in years four through six, and pointed out that GMs should start looking at the rest of the NBA as their minor league system, and increase their pro scouting budgets, so that they knew which players to acquire. (In true Tom style, though, he named the article "**** the Draft".)


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