# Fans hating on bron and wade



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

Im gonna kill some hate that fans spew about wade and bron. 

some fans (notably fans of a specific team) always say that wade cannot keep up the way he is playing because he will get hurt and have a short career. that he needs to get s jumper. why didnt they say that about A.I. wade is bigger and stronger than A.I. and wade has a good midrange jumper. he doesn't NEED to do anything. he won a championship playing the way he does as opposed to shooting all day.

then they say refs give bron and wade the whistle and let a certain player gets assaulted with no call. really? they attempt the same number of freethrows a game. but then they counter to say many of this certain player's go uncalled, while bron and wade get fouls called with no contact. really? 70% of that certain player's FGA are jumpers. ppl dont usually foul jumpshooters. yet he gets just as many freethows a game as bron and wade who practically LIVE around the basket. i can point out numberous times they got hacked with no call...especially bron (i think because he is bigger and better than everyone else they let some stuff go, but thats another arguement).

then they say wade got preferencial treatment in the finals. especially the "ghost" call in game 5. from what i recall, both dirk (the hand in the back) and harris (the grab of wade's bicep which rendered him unable to finish the shot at the basket) were frozen in clips and photos for the world to see. and does it occur to you that just MAYBE they were fouling him? dallas isnt exactly the spurs and pistons you know. plus with shaq putting them in the penalty, and them having no defense and wade being physicall...recipe for disaster. 

and fans saying lebron doesnt have a "killer instinct". do you watch games? if that aint killer instinct.... or maybe you want him to have the killer instinct where he scored one point and attempts 3 fg in the second half of a game 7. maybe you want him to have the killer instinct where he makes 30% of his gamewinners in the regular season...as opposed to a leage leading 60%. 

and the notion that lebron traveled on his gamewinning shots. he DID travel on the first one, but the second one where he tightlined the baseline was money. it's not as blatant as the debacle in the western conference first round where two refs were staring at a certain point guard with long hair being fouled, while a curly haired player had his hands on the ball out of bounds...yet it was called a jumpball.

so if you guys wanna hate on bron and wade...at least let the reasons make sense, and not be contradictory to what goes on with your own team. most of you only hate them because they threaten the popularity of your favorite player. 

P.S. the identities of most of the players involed in this tirade were protected.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Cry me a river. Why don't you admit that this is about Kobe?


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

As long as these 2 have the refs on their side, they will consistinly be putting up good scoring numbers.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> As long as these 2 have the refs on their side, they will consistinly be putting up good scoring numbers.


Exactly. Good thing the referees are actively trying to make Lebron and Wade seem better than they actually are. Otherwise, they probably would be 2nd tier stars. Not as good as the top players in the game, but above average. I think it's a conspiracy started by David Stern.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

kobe? now what make su think that? and what do u mean by "refs on their side?" what does that mean? does it mean the refs call foul when they are fouled? so shouldn't they do that? why do they attemt only 10 ft a game when they attack the basket all the time, but players who only take jumpers go to it the same number of times as them? and u call that being on their side? lebron who averaged 8ft a game vs the pistons when all he was doing was driving to the bucket abd being fouled? favoritism???? if u say so


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

Brandname said:


> Exactly. Good thing the referees are actively trying to make Lebron and Wade seem better than they actually are. Otherwise, they probably would be 2nd tier stars. Not as good as the top players in the game, but above average. I think it's a conspiracy started by David Stern.


you CANNOT be serious. i'll pretend this post never existed.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Brandname said:


> Exactly. Good thing the referees are actively trying to make Lebron and Wade seem better than they actually are. Otherwise, they probably would be 2nd tier stars. Not as good as the top players in the game, but above average. I think it's a conspiracy started by David Stern.


Sarcasm or is that really what you think?


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> you CANNOT be serious. i'll pretend this post never existed.


That's his opinion, there is no right or wrong.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

OOOhhhh this one's going to be good, like any other Kobe bashing thread, but its been debated a hundred times, so ill just sit back and laugh.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

t1no said:


> That's his opinion, there is no right or wrong.


i understand your point...but bron and wade disrpupts the fabric of space and time, thus altering all known grammar, structural, and linguistic beliefs. he is WRONG


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> OOOhhhh this one's going to be good, like any other Kobe bashing thread, but its been debated a hundred times, so ill just sit back and laugh.


kobe bashing thread? who is talking about him? this ia about bron and wade bro


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> P.S. the identities of most of the players involed in this tirade were protected.


 As if people here does not who you're referring to, dude c'mon thats a sad attempt to cover their identity...



:rotf:


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> As if people here does not who you're referring to, dude c'mon thats a sad attempt to cover their identity...
> 
> 
> 
> :rotf:


Yo is that John Claude Van Dame in your avatar?


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> Yo is that John Claude Van Dame in your avatar?


Yeah, the one and only :laugh:


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

i still dont know what u are talking about. this thread is specifically about lebron and wade hate. i never said kobe.


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## fmanlu05 (Jun 11, 2005)

t1no said:


> Sarcasm or is that really what you think?


he's from michigan... after watching the pistons get spanked by miami i would hate dwade too. :clap:


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

that would explain it. bron is the best player in the league, even better than timmy (though i would not chose him over timmy if starting a team)...wade is the third best. ppl need to accept their greatness and stop makinf excuses. when one of the few teams to three-peat were in the middle of their run, a certain player on that team was getting some unbelievable calls...and in a rivalry series it was one of the worst refereed games ive ever seen in any sport in my life, yet those same fans cmplain that they are being "hated on" by stern. ROFL


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> kobe bashing thread? who is talking about him? this ia about bron and wade bro


Maybe im just jumping into conclusions .Out of all these posters, who disliked Kobe, i have to say you're my favorite...not in a sarcastic way BTW.






duncan2k5 said:


> fans saying lebron doesnt have a "killer instinct". do you watch games? if that aint killer instinct.... or maybe you want him to have the killer instinct where he scored one point and attempts 3 fg in the second half of a game 7.


And yet, if that player goes out on a blazing glory shooting 20 shots in the second half in route for another possibly 50 point game, he's selfish. 

Cant win...




duncan2k5 said:


> maybe you want him to have the killer instinct where he makes 30% of his gamewinners in the regular season...as opposed to a leage leading 60%. .


Situations are different, most of Lebron's GW' are from ISO defensive plays, with the opposition knowing that Lebron could either a.) Pass b.) Shoot. The other player has a mentality is to score at will ,its obvious that once he gets the ball he's going to shoot for the win (obviously not the best chance of winning), thus its normal to see him get double teamed, or even in some situations gets triple teamed in closing second situations. And we all know double coverage defense produces a lower chance of making the shot.






duncan2k5 said:


> they say refs give bron and wade the whistle and let a certain player gets assaulted with no call. really?
> 
> and the notion that lebron traveled on his gamewinning shots. he DID travel on the first one, but the second one where he tightlined the baseline was money. it's not as blatant as the debacle in the western conference first round where two refs were staring at a certain point guard with long hair being fouled, while a curly haired player had his hands on the ball out of bounds...yet it was called a jumpball.


Facts of the game, one way or another they'll miss a valid call. This is no different where the leagues leading scorer got hit in the face during game 1 against the Phoenix Suns and did not get the call, he got a huge lump in his head and to further prove that, Tim Thomas even went as far as admitting to the media that he did foul that player.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> i still dont know what u are talking about. this thread is specifically about lebron and wade hate. i never said kobe.


Of course, you didnt...but the phantom player who is widely associated with the words _Killer instinct_, cant be Paul Pierce, or maybe Carmelo Anthony right?...oh wait Vince Carter?

You could definitely make your point without having to compare situations.


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## g-dog-rice#2 (Jan 29, 2006)

I'm a huge Kobe fan so I'm going to comment on this matter. Thing is, I don't have a real problem with Lebron. He's a great player that works hard and respects the history of the game. Sure, he travels a few times per game, but a lot of other players do too - even Kobe.

It's Wade that really bothers me. I the style of his game. He just drives the lane, takes a hop step (which is illegal) and then jumps into the defender, expecting to get the foul call. The NBA Finals was a joke, how Haslem was allowed to body up Dirk but then the Mavs barely touched Wade and there was a foul called. 

As for Kobe not being clutch and only hitting 30% of game-winners...hah! In a GM poll towards the beginning of the year, Kobe was voted top player to have the ball in the closing seconds of the game. Did you see his 2 game-winners against Phoenix? The guy is money.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

he didnt hit 2 game winners...he hit 1. lerbon hit 2. and kobedunked on shaq, i can point out many times lebron and wade didnt get the call. and what you said about lerbon is absolutely right. players know he is a threat to pass. look how many times this year (and in the series vs the wizards too when DJ hit the gamewinner from lebron) he was doubled at the end of the game and he made a gamewinning pass. players know he has the ability to do this, so they are left at his mercy. and when left alone, he has a league leading 60% efficiency in gamewinners. dude is fearsome in the 4th. his decision-making combined with his ability makes him the best in the league to me. 

and no one will be mad at kobe if he takes 20 shots in the second half. it's the QUALITY of the shots that make ppl say he is selfish. he would take shots with no possible way of making it, when he can simply pass to the open guy. i like to see when players go on scoring binges, like wade in game 3 when he simply could not miss. one of the greatest finals performances ive ever seen in a 6 minute span of time. but itsn not as if he was taking stupid shots. i am a purist. i guess thats why i like the "boring" spurs so much. it irks me to see players take stupid shots. to me thats selfish. i guess thats why i dislike certain players, and will never respect others like marbury, francis...etc


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Duuuuuude, you are getting ridiculous. I have never seen anyone so madly obsessed with Kobe. Even DR took the necessary steps to calm his obsession. Veiled hate just makes you look silly.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

g-dog-rice#2 said:


> I'm a huge Kobe fan so I'm going to comment on this matter. Thing is, I don't have a real problem with Lebron. He's a great player that works hard and respects the history of the game. Sure, he travels a few times per game, but a lot of other players do too - even Kobe.
> 
> It's Wade that really bothers me. I the style of his game. He just drives the lane, takes a hop step (which is illegal) and then jumps into the defender, expecting to get the foul call. The NBA Finals was a joke, how Haslem was allowed to body up Dirk but then the Mavs barely touched Wade and there was a foul called.
> 
> As for Kobe not being clutch and only hitting 30% of game-winners...hah! In a GM poll towards the beginning of the year, Kobe was voted top player to have the ball in the closing seconds of the game. Did you see his 2 game-winners against Phoenix? The guy is money.


Good post, dudes.. someone tell me how to rep people.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Duuuuuude, you are getting ridiculous. I have never seen anyone so madly obsessed with Kobe. Even DR took the necessary steps to calm his obsession. Veiled hate just makes you look silly.


FYI i was not veiling anything. i intended to make their identities pretty obviousbut in all honesty...this not not about kobe hate, its about lebron and wade hate. if you cared to read, i was not bashing kobe, i was stating events that wade and lebron went through that contradicts most of the criticisms they receive


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

t1no said:


> Good post, dudes.. someone tell me how to rep people.


click on the scale below my name :biggrin:


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

g-dog-rice#2 said:


> It's Wade that really bothers me. I the style of his game. He just drives the lane, takes a hop step (which is illegal) and then jumps into the defender, expecting to get the foul call. The NBA Finals was a joke, how Haslem was allowed to body up Dirk but then the Mavs barely touched Wade and there was a foul called.


The NBA finals were a joke in that regard. But because the style is ridiculous, not Wade's treatment. Wade got the exact same style of calls Lebron got in the playoffs. Dirk got a ton of them too.

I have no idea why people are picking on Wade in the finals. It seemed like the country really was pulling for the Mavs for some reason... But all those who liked the Mavs can't come up with any complaint that wasn't equally valid in prior rounds with Lebron, Dirk, and Wade.


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## Netz_love (Nov 10, 2005)

Dude you are the one who needs to watch games.Wade palms the ball everytime he touches it and Lebron gets away with 200 steps.But thats just the start.You can't breathe on Dwayne Wade and never mind the free-throws when the defensive player knows he can't even "try" guarding Wade or the refs are gonna call him they back off.Wade becomes even more aggressive,defender becomes even more passive.With Shaq clogging the lane how hard is the game for Wade?
Lebron still has to try harder but even he does recieve a few favors here and there.Other then that the NBA rules have totally changed favoring slashing.Infact the game has taken away from shooting to an extent where only Dirk and Redd were players you could classify more as shooters than slashers who were in the top 15 in scoring.Kobe and Vince who people consider more as shooters are versatile so I'm not gonna count them.Lebron,Wade,AI,Arenas,Pierce are all slashers with some shooting.

Now I love Wade as a player but I'm going to be the first one to say that he's totally gonna get killed on the international level.The refs down there won't let him get away with anything.Carrying,Palming the ball,Extra Steps.Everything will be called.Defenders will be allowed to be physical on him and his speed will be useless with excellent zone being played.
I don't hear it about Lebron but do about Wade that he's a league created superstar.I have no clue if its true but there are some preety decent arguements.These Olympics should prove for or otherwise.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

no hate for lebron here. if i was a gm, and i was building a team from the ground up, lebron would be my first pick.

every star gets preferential treatment. the treatment wade got in the finals was on a whole new level. it doesn't detract from wade's abilities, because it was the refs that messed up. 

wade's numbers prove that he is one of the best. no one can argue with that, i just think that a lot of us wanted to watch a fairly officiated finals, and in my *opinion*, that was not the case.


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## g-dog-rice#2 (Jan 29, 2006)

Guys, I wouldn't get too into this. Duncan2k5 is just a Kobe r, his sig even says so. There's no point arguging with him.


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## Black Mamba 24 (Jul 20, 2006)

Kobe hit a game tying floater against Phoenix, THEN he hit the game winner over 3 of their players in overtime. That is how it went down.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

g-dog-rice#2 said:


> I'm a huge Kobe fan so I'm going to comment on this matter. Thing is, I don't have a real problem with Lebron. He's a great player that works hard and respects the history of the game. Sure, he travels a few times per game, but a lot of other players do too - even Kobe.
> 
> It's Wade that really bothers me. I the style of his game. He just drives the lane, takes a hop step (which is illegal) and then jumps into the defender, expecting to get the foul call. The NBA Finals was a joke, how Haslem was allowed to body up Dirk but then the Mavs barely touched Wade and there was a foul called.
> 
> As for Kobe not being clutch and only hitting 30% of game-winners...hah! In a GM poll towards the beginning of the year, Kobe was voted top player to have the ball in the closing seconds of the game. Did you see his 2 game-winners against Phoenix? The guy is money.



Agreed. Dwayne Wade is a good player but lets face it without the refs giving him every call he doesn't win the NBA championship. David Stern has made the NBA a mockery of what it used to be where the players, not the refs won the championship. Dallas would have won without the one-sided calls by all the refs.


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## Black Mamba 24 (Jul 20, 2006)

In the immortal chant from the greatest award show on earth, 'The Player Haters Ball'.

"Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate..."


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> i can point out many times lebron and wade didnt get the call.


You have absolutely no idea what your talking about. I respect both players but they got 99% of the calls. A nuetral fan will be able to tell that better instead of one who is infatuated with both LeBron and Wade. This might be the dumbest post I have ever read.


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## Black Mamba 24 (Jul 20, 2006)

Star players in the NBA do get the benfit of the doubt, WAY too much. It is kind of making a joke, and a mockery of the sport. I wish they would just abandon it. I personally still think the Heat would've won the Finals, but it definetely would have went 7 games with out those "phantom calls". The Mavs were still way too passive after the second game, and became ADDICTED to shooting jumpers. But it didn't help matters, that Wade would get calls that WEREN'T undisputed fould, even more so with the game on the line. It is always a known fact, that regardless... you usually let the players decide the fate of the game, on last possesions that are the key to the game. You don't call bail out fouls, that is reserved for pick up games.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Black Mamba 24 said:


> Star players in the NBA do get the benfit of the doubt, WAY too much. It is kind of making a joke, and a mockery of the sport. I wish they would just abandon it. I personally still think the Heat would've won the Finals, but it definetely would have went 7 games with out those "phantom calls". The Mavs were still way too passive after the second game, and became ADDICTED to shooting jumpers. But it didn't help matters, that Wade would get calls that WEREN'T undisputed fould, even more so with the game on the line. It is always a known fact, that regardless... you usually let the players decide the fate of the game, on last possesions that are the key to the game. You don't call bail out fouls, that is reserved for pick up games.



You are 110% correct.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

so the invisible bail out foul for kobe vs Utah isnt a big deal, but wade getting fouled by dirk AND harris, thus rendering him unable to attempts a shot in one of the biggest games is a crime? be serious. and for someone who has no rep power, you shouldn't be telling me how bad my posts are. they get the call 99% of the times??? really??? THAT has to be the worst post ive ever read. you are just mad because the heat beat the pistons and you wanted the Mavs to beat them. wade was being fouled like no one's business. tell the mav players to leard some defense before they cry about officiating. remember when they said they were gonna start playing physical against the heat? they dont know how to play physical because they arent a physical team, thus they foul


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

fmanlu05 said:


> he's from michigan... after watching the pistons get spanked by miami i would hate dwade too. :clap:


Haha, believe me, I was the rooting for the Heat to crush Detroit as much as anyone here.

I'm a Cavs fan, and although I was hoping it was obvious from the extreme nature of my post, I was being quite sarcastic. Lebron and Wade are 2 of my 3 favorite players in the league, and they're both superstars with or without the calls.

They may get the favor of a lot of calls, just as Kobe does. But they are also on the receiving end of a lot of bad/no calls, same as Kobe. The reason? *They handle the ball all they time.* Good calls and bad calls will be made on them. It's not favoritism, but rather referees that aren't skilled enough to keep up with the pace of the game and make the correct call when it counts. They make mistakes, a lot of them. Too many of them. But that's what they are, mistakes. Not really favoritism. 

However, one major difference among these three players is that Wade plays to the referees much more than the other two, particularly Lebron. 

Hate him all you want, but the one thing you never see Lebron doing is flopping on offense to get a foul called. If it's a bad call, it's not because he flopped to get it. He just doesn't do it. He goes to the hole with power and tries to keep his balance and make a shot. If they call a foul, they call a foul. But he doesn't flop to draw them. 

Wade, on the other hand, takes full advantage of the refs' incompetence. He flops near the basket a lot, exaggerating the contact and putting the refs in a difficult position. The refs should be able to handle it, certainly, but that's one of the few knocks I have on Dwyane's game. I just don't really like that style of play that much. I think you should try to make the play no matter what, rather than trying to get bailed out.

Kobe is somewhere in between the two when it comes to this.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> so the invisible bail out foul for kobe vs Utah isnt a big deal, but wade getting fouled by dirk AND harris, thus rendering him unable to attempts a shot in one of the biggest games is a crime? be serious. and for someone who has no rep power, you shouldn't be telling me how bad my posts are. they get the call 99% of the times??? really??? THAT has to be the worst post ive ever read. you are just mad because the heat beat the pistons and you wanted the Mavs to beat them. wade was being fouled like no one's business. tell the mav players to leard some defense before they cry about officiating. remember when they said they were gonna start playing physical against the heat? they dont know how to play physical because they arent a physical team, thus they foul


Well actually if your talking about game 5 of the finals DWade was never touched on that shot, and im sorry that you hate on other players when your blind to the treatment that Dwade received through the playoffs. 90% of the guards in the NBA could have averaged 25 plus points if they got the Dwade treatment b/c all it is is shooting fouls shots, and yes 99% of the time they do get the foul im sorry your too stupid to realize this. The NBA is rigged to give the star players opportunities to win games all by themselves. 


The Detroit/Cleveland series was an example of this. LeBron played great but he had a lot of foul calls that kept Cleveland in the series. If you can't realize this maybe you should stop getting your opnion from the Dwade fan club site and actually watch the games.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> The Detroit/Cleveland series was an example of this. LeBron played great but he had a lot of foul calls that kept Cleveland in the series. If you can't realize this maybe you should stop getting your opnion from the Dwade fan club site and actually watch the games.


Incorrect.

Lebron got 55 FTA in the Detriot series (7 games). That's significantly less the 10 per game. He got more than 10 FTA/game in the regular season. His FTA went _down_ in the Detroit series. As much as people complain about star treatment in the NBA, teams with a defensive reputation get away with some of the worst no calls. Detroit has to mug people for fouls to get called on them because of their reputation. But that's beside the point.

Cleveland was not in this series because of Lebron's free throws. His FTA attempts were as follows:

Game 1: 2 L
Game 2: 8 L
Game 3: 2 W
Game 4: 10 W
Game 5: 7 W
Game 6: 18 L
Game 7: 8 L

Lebron only got to the line more than his average on 1 occasion: Game 6, which they lost anyway. The other games he got to the line much, much less than he normally does. 

So no, Lebron's free throws were not the reason Cleveland was able to hang with Detroit. It's because Cleveland finally played great team defense, which they had struggled to do all year. And they finally had most of their team healthy. But it was certainly not due to free throws.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Brandname said:


> ...teams with a defensive reputation get away with some of the worst no calls...




great point.


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## Black Mamba 24 (Jul 20, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> so the invisible bail out foul for kobe vs Utah isnt a big deal


What call are you talking about, or reffering? And yes, I don't believe a fould should be called in the final seconds...unless it is a blatant, undisputed, and obvious foul. The calls made against Wade, weren't.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Is this guy serious? You need to cool your Kobe obsession down a bit, it's getting depressing. We all know this thread has nothing to do with LeBron and Wade, and everything to do with your Kobe hate, otherwise you wouldn't have to disguise his name and act like you're not talking about him.


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## FATSHAQANDTMAC (Jan 17, 2005)

Tim Duncan thinks duncan2k5 is a tool, who can argue against the best player in the L?

such a disgrace to trolls everwhere


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> Lebron got 55 FTA in the Detriot series (7 games). That's significantly less the 10 per game. He got more than 10 FTA/game in the regular season. His FTA went _down_ in the Detroit series. As much as people complain about star treatment in the NBA, teams with a defensive reputation get away with some of the worst no calls. Detroit has to mug people for fouls to get called on them because of their reputation. But that's beside the point.
> 
> ...


It doesn't change the fact that the calls Lebron did get were mostly BS. As a Detroit fan I was far more upset about the calls Lebron got than Wade got the next round, despite being fewer.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Is this guy serious? You need to cool your Kobe obsession down a bit, it's getting depressing. We all know this thread has nothing to do with LeBron and Wade, and everything to do with your Kobe hate, otherwise you wouldn't have to disguise his name and act like you're not talking about him.


I just kind of assumed it was partly joking. I know that duncan2k5 really, _really_ hates Kobe, but I assumed (hoped) that he was kinda poking fun at his irrational hatred. I fear I may have been wrong, though.

But yeah, this thread was just designed to elicit a strong response from Kobe fans.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

JoeD said:


> It doesn't change the fact that the calls Lebron did get were mostly BS. As a Detroit fan I was far more upset about the calls Lebron got than Wade got the next round, despite being fewer.


They were not BS at all. It's just that Detroit tends to get away with a lot more contact than any other team in the league. I mean, have you ever seen Lindsey Hunter play defense?

In that series, most of the bad calls were non-calls by the refs than incorrect foul calls.


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## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Well actually if your talking about game 5 of the finals DWade was never touched on that shot, and im sorry that you hate on other players when your blind to the treatment that Dwade received through the playoffs. 90% of the guards in the NBA could have averaged 25 plus points if they got the Dwade treatment b/c all it is is shooting fouls shots, and yes 99% of the time they do get the foul im sorry your too stupid to realize this. The NBA is rigged to give the star players opportunities to win games all by themselves.
> 
> 
> The Detroit/Cleveland series was an example of this. LeBron played great but he had a lot of foul calls that kept Cleveland in the series. If you can't realize this maybe you should stop getting your opnion from the Dwade fan club site and actually watch the games.




First of all, you need to do research before you get on this board and start blabbing your mouth. Search for pictures of Harris & Nowitzki fouling Wade. Some pictures I saw it was crystal clear Harris fouled him, and pictures of Dirk pushing him in the back was evident also. Don't argue that those fouls were pansy fouls, I was just stating that you are completely wrong on the "he never got touched" theory.

Secondly, as pointed out by someone else, you are wrong about LeBron getting foul calls and Cleveland winning because of it. I highly doubt 2 FT or even 7 FT was the reason Cleveland won.

Thirdly, everyone knows Dirk is a jump shooter, and he is dang good at it. He can flat out stroke. But what does that mean? That means if you are shooting jump shoots all the time, you are not going to get to the foul line as much, right? We all know Wade was slashing to the hoop every chance he could get, and that increases your chances of shooting FT's right? A simple yes or no answer will suffice. In Game 4, Dirk actually shot more FT's than Wade, 4 more in fact. And Miami still won. In GM 3 it wasn't that far off, Dirk shot 12, Wade shot 18, and we know Dirk has a much better FT%, so despite the 6 more FT's Wade shot, he only made 3 more than Dirk. Yes, in games 5 & 6 Wade shot a lot more FT's than Dirk, but again, Wade was driving to the lane on most of his possessions.

Get your facts straight.


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## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

We also know that Jason Terry and Josh Howard were getting most of their points off jump shots. And they were hot, no disrespect to them, they were knocking shots down.

Despite all the arguements over free throw shooting, does anyone know how many both teams made the entire series? I'll tell you.

Miami shot 207 FT's, made *125* for 60.4%

Dallas shot 155 FT's, made *122* for 78.7%


MIAMI ONLY MADE *3* MORE FT'S THAN DALLAS THE ENTIRE SERIES!! ONLY 3!!


Seriously, I don't think you can make an argument for Dallas losing because Miami shot more free throws, not after seeing those stats.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

smrtguy said:


> We also know that Jason Terry and Josh Howard were getting most of their points off jump shots. And they were hot, no disrespect to them, they were knocking shots down.
> 
> Despite all the arguements over free throw shooting, does anyone know how many both teams made the entire series? I'll tell you.
> 
> ...



i don't think people are upset about the discrepancy between made freethrows, but more at the discrepancy in attempts.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

smrtguy said:


> We also know that Jason Terry and Josh Howard were getting most of their points off jump shots. And they were hot, no disrespect to them, they were knocking shots down.
> 
> Despite all the arguements over free throw shooting, does anyone know how many both teams made the entire series? I'll tell you.
> 
> ...


 Wow, you say that Miami made 3 more but look at the difference between ATTEMPTS!

It's more than 50! You cant tell me that that isnt a big differnece...


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

well, it does seem like Lebron and Wade are the two players getting the pissed off fans wrath about the new NBA rules over the other stars, like Kobe, Dirk, Vince, AI who also get a lot of ft's due to the perimeter defense rules.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

M F F L said:


> Wow, you say that Miami made 3 more but look at the difference between ATTEMPTS!
> 
> It's more than 50! You cant tell me that that isnt a big differnece...


it is, but look at style of play

its not like Miami starting getting those fouls called in that series against the poor Mavs. Miami led the league in ft attempts during the regular season, and for good reason- starting and ending with Shaq and Wade.


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## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> i don't think people are upset about the discrepancy between made freethrows, but more at the discrepancy in attempts.



I realize this, even I was astonished at just how many FT's Wade shot, but I watched the games, and it seemed like he took advantage of it. He knew Dallas' D was weak against someone driving to the hoop, so he exploited it.

I did not know, however, that Miami only made 3 more. I watched all 6 games, and the only people I remember getting into foul trouble for Dallas were Diop and Dampier, because they were fouling O'Neal. I think Nowitzki might have gotten 4 or 5 fouls in a couple of games. But, based on those stats Boots, I don't think anyone can argue that Miami won because they shot more FT's.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> it is, but look at style of play
> 
> its not like Miami starting getting those fouls called in that series against the poor Mavs. Miami led the league in ft attempts during the regular season, and for good reason- starting and ending with Shaq and Wade.


 True but that much is just insane. I mean I would have understood around 20-30 but come on 50?!


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

smrtguy said:


> I realize this, even I was astonished at just how many FT's Wade shot, but I watched the games, and it seemed like he took advantage of it. He knew Dallas' D was weak against someone driving to the hoop, so he exploited it.
> 
> I did not know, however, that Miami only made 3 more. I watched all 6 games, and the only people I remember getting into foul trouble for Dallas were Diop and Dampier, because they were fouling O'Neal. I think Nowitzki might have gotten 4 or 5 fouls in a couple of games. But, based on those stats Boots, I don't think anyone can argue that Miami won because they shot more FT's.


 Take 2 of those made ft and Miami would have lost one of the games...


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## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

M F F L said:


> Wow, you say that Miami made 3 more but look at the difference between ATTEMPTS!
> 
> It's more than 50! You cant tell me that that isnt a big differnece...




Yeah, Miami shot 50 more, because of many reasons.

1. Wade is a slasher, and used this to his advantage
2. Dirk is a jump shooter
3. Terry is a jump shooter, at least for the entire Finals
4. Howard was a jump shooter for the entire Finals
5. Hack-a-Shaq

I didn't say it wasn't a big difference, I said nobody can argue that Dallas lost because of FT's.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

smrtguy said:


> I realize this, even I was astonished at just how many FT's Wade shot, but I watched the games, and it seemed like he took advantage of it. He knew Dallas' D was weak against someone driving to the hoop, so he exploited it.
> 
> I did not know, however, that Miami only made 3 more. I watched all 6 games, and the only people I remember getting into foul trouble for Dallas were Diop and Dampier, because they were fouling O'Neal. I think Nowitzki might have gotten 4 or 5 fouls in a couple of games. But, based on those stats Boots, I don't think anyone can argue that Miami won because they shot more FT's.



i know they didn't win cause they shot more freethrows, because the info you provided showed that they only got 3 more points. but, you don't think that the extra fouls called on dallas affected their play? i think it did. how is someone supposed to play tight defense, when they know that the officials have the whistle glued to their lips? 

the wade-induced fouls were called when he had the ball. the spotlight was on him, so any little ticky-tack was called. however, i think the refs did a piss-poor job of calling fouls off the ball. haslem was all over dirk. not in a suffocating defense type of way, but in a assault and battery type of way, which of course was not called. the only time off the ball calls were made, was when they were committed against wade.

keep in mind that i am a fan of neither team, but as an impartial fan of basketball, this had to have been the worst officiated finals that i have ever seen...


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## beamer05 (Feb 24, 2006)

duncan2k5 i agree that bron and wade hating is ridiculous.. yet in the same post that you try and defend two great players you try to quietly bash another? What gives man? Kobe is a great player, seems like a good person [obviously, I don't know him personally].. so why do you hate him so? It's just kind of ridiculous that, to get your point across in regard to bron and wade, you take an unjustified shot at kobe.


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## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> i know they didn't win cause they shot more freethrows, because the info you provided showed that they only got 3 more points. but, you don't think that the extra fouls called on dallas affected their play? i think it did. how is someone supposed to play tight defense, when they know that the officials have the whistle glued to their lips?
> 
> the wade-induced fouls were called when he had the ball. the spotlight was on him, so any little ticky-tack was called. however, i think the refs did a piss-poor job of calling fouls off the ball. haslem was all over dirk. not in a suffocating defense type of way, but in a assault and battery type of way, which of course was not called. the only time off the ball calls were made, was when they were committed against wade.
> 
> keep in mind that i am a fan of neither team, but as an impartial fan of basketball, this had to have been the worst officiated finals that i have ever seen...




I don't know what the Mavs were thinking. In all honesty, Dirk gets some superstar call as well. Here is what I would have done. As soon as I found out the refs were calling a lot of fouls, I would have started penetrating. But Dallas didn't, they kept shooting jumpshots. You know who I thought was the best penetrator the entire series for Dallas? Marquis Daniels. It seemed like everytime he got the ball he drove to the hole, and he finished. It was kinda fun to watch, I think he is an under rated player.

I don't think the fouls would affect their play all that much. You know you have to foul Shaq or he is pretty much gonna score, but if you foul him, chances are he will miss at least 1 FT, maybe both, so that could actually be an advantage, so it would be helpful to foul him, that is until you get into the penalty, and in that case, wait for them to give it to Shaq, and foul him. Don't, I repeat, don't foul Wade! But I don't know anything, I am just a fan who didn't think the fouls called were all that bad. Especially in games 1-4. You could make an argument for games 5-6, but I don't think anyone has an argument about the foul calls in games 1-4.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

Dwyane Wade did what all legends on the basketball floor are SUPPOSED to do. Find a way to win. Good calls, bad calls, whatever it may be, Dwyane Wade GETS THE JOB DONE. It's amazing when Piston fans say "Hard work pays off" when they can't even apperciate how hard Dwyane Wade works, at doing what he does at the age of 25. His intelligence of the game of basketball, or for you haters "The ref's incompetence" is purely pheneomonmal.


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## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> Dwyane Wade did what all legends on the basketball floor are SUPPOSED to do. Find a way to win. Good calls, bad calls, whatever it may be, Dwyane Wade GETS THE JOB DONE. It's amazing when Piston fans say "Hard work pays off" when they can't even apperciate how hard Dwyane Wade works, at doing what he does at the age of 25. His intelligence of the game of basketball, or for you haters "The ref's incompetence" is purely pheneomonmal.




Nice post


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

until the the league replaces all the refs with automated robots, we will always be having these types of discussions...


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> Dwyane Wade did what all legends on the basketball floor are SUPPOSED to do. Find a way to win. Good calls, bad calls, whatever it may be, Dwyane Wade GETS THE JOB DONE. It's amazing when Piston fans say "Hard work pays off" when they can't even apperciate how hard Dwyane Wade works, at doing what he does at the age of 25. His intelligence of the game of basketball, or for you haters "The ref's incompetence" is purely pheneomonmal.



no doubt he got the job done. but he didn't do it by himself. he subcontracted a lot of people to make his job a bit easier. and i'm not talking about his teammates.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

smrtguy said:


> Yeah, Miami shot 50 more, because of many reasons.
> 
> 1. Wade is a slasher, and used this to his advantage
> 2. Dirk is a jump shooter
> ...


 I agree but Dirk was only a jumpshooter in the Finals, if you had watched him in the season or all the other rounds you would have seen a slashing basket attacking Dirk.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

To the people saying Dirk was a only a jump shooter in the finals did you ever stop and think why. Most of the time when he attacked the basket and attempted to drive Haslem bodied him up with his stomach. For all of you who play basketball you know how hard it is to get by anyone when they are allowed to play defense. The reason Mavs fans and most of the board was complaining about the calls wasn't about the Heat driving and the Mavs jumpshooting it was that whenever the Heat drove a finger couldn't be layed on them, yet when the Mavs attempted to drive the refs swallowed their whistle and let the Heat do anything necessary to get a stop.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

thug_immortal8 said:


> To the people saying Dirk was a only a jump shooter in the finals did you ever stop and think why. Most of the time when he attacked the basket and attempted to drive Haslem bodied him up with his stomach. For all of you who play basketball you know how hard it is to get by anyone when they are allowed to play defense. The reason Mavs fans and most of the board was complaining about the calls wasn't about the Heat driving and the Mavs jumpshooting it was that whenever the Heat drove a finger couldn't be layed on them, yet when the Mavs attempted to drive the refs swallowed their whistle and let the Heat do anything necessary to get a stop.



exactly.


it's not that we "hate" wade. we just think the officials did an extremely poor job. 


repped...


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Fans hating on Lebron and Wade? :rofl: You must be living under the rock since 2003 I suppose.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> To the people saying Dirk was a only a jump shooter in the finals did you ever stop and think why. Most of the time when he attacked the basket and attempted to drive Haslem bodied him up with his stomach. For all of you who play basketball you know how hard it is to get by anyone when they are allowed to play defense. The reason Mavs fans and most of the board was complaining about the calls wasn't about the Heat driving and the Mavs jumpshooting it was that whenever the Heat drove a finger couldn't be layed on them, yet when the Mavs attempted to drive the refs swallowed their whistle and let the Heat do anything necessary to get a stop.


You say this as if the Mavs drove to the basket a lot ? Just because a team is playing strong aggressive defense on your team. Does that mean quit driving and become jump shooters ? Any great team needs to be able to play through adversity. The Mavs IMO proved they were not up to that challenge in the finals. Also I recall nobody complaining about the ref's when the Heat were down 0-2. The Heat won the finals with out the help of the Ref's. Just like the Mavs won the first two games with out the help of the refs.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

thug_immortal8 said:


> To the people saying Dirk was a only a jump shooter in the finals did you ever stop and think why. Most of the time when he attacked the basket and attempted to drive Haslem bodied him up with his stomach. For all of you who play basketball you know how hard it is to get by anyone when they are allowed to play defense. The reason Mavs fans and most of the board was complaining about the calls wasn't about the Heat driving and the Mavs jumpshooting it was that whenever the Heat drove a finger couldn't be layed on them, yet when the Mavs attempted to drive the refs swallowed their whistle and let the Heat do anything necessary to get a stop.


 Exactly. Repped


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

23AJ said:


> You say this as if the Mavs drove to the basket a lot ? Just because a team is playing strong aggressive defense on your team. Does that mean quit driving and become jump shooters ? Any great team needs to be able to play through adversity. The Mavs IMO proved they were not up to that challenge in the finals. Also I recall nobody complaining about the ref's when the Heat were down 0-2. The Heat won the finals with out the help of the Ref's. Just like the Mavs won the first two games with out the help of the refs.


 The first 2 games the Heat and the Mavs were allowed to drive to the basket with the calls and non calls

the last 4 games if the Mavs drove we'd get stuck with AWSOME defense and a few fouls that werent called but while the Heat drove the defense was okay and everytime somebody toched/bumped/breathed on any heat player attacking a foul was immedietely called.

The refs just sucked was all, no body hates Wade (He's still my 3rd favorite player)


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> until the the league replaces all the refs with automated robots, we will always be having these types of discussions...


LOL, that's exactly what I always say.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> You say this as if the Mavs drove to the basket a lot ? Just because a team is playing strong aggressive defense on your team. Does that mean quit driving and become jump shooters ? Any great team needs to be able to play through adversity. The Mavs IMO proved they were not up to that challenge in the finals. Also I recall nobody complaining about the ref's when the Heat were down 0-2. The Heat won the finals with out the help of the Ref's. Just like the Mavs won the first two games with out the help of the refs.


 What part of my post didn't you understand. The Mavs specifically Dirk and Josh Howard had trouble getting to the basket because of the handchecking, jersey tugging, and bodying up that the Heat were allowed to get away with. Think about it logically if you can't get to the basket because a defender is allowed grabbing you what other option do you have. More than half the times that Dirk got the ball he would take a dribble towards the basket and somebody would already be fouling him and getting away with it.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

its funny because Kobe is #2 in FT Attempts does that mean the refs help him become a star?


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

MiamiHeat03 said:


> its funny because Kobe is #2 in FT Attempts does that mean the refs help him become a star?


 Considering that Kobe was a star before he started avering 8+ FTA a game, I'd say no. 

My problem with Wade and Lebron is that they have entered the league at a time when the NBA is trying to promote itself and are changing the rules to benefit the offensive player. This is causing scoring numbers to be imploded and higher then they would have been a couple of year ago (Including Kobe's). The NBA is trying to put Wade and Lebron on a pedestool as if to say these two men are dominating the league so easily at such a young age, when the truth is taht neither of them would have averaged over 25 had they been this age in 98 or 2001 because of the way the league was back then.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

M F F L said:


> The first 2 games the Heat and the Mavs were allowed to drive to the basket with the calls and non calls
> 
> the last 4 games if the Mavs drove we'd get stuck with AWSOME defense and a few fouls that werent called but while the Heat drove the defense was okay and everytime somebody toched/bumped/breathed on any heat player attacking a foul was immedietely called.
> 
> The refs just sucked was all, no body hates Wade (He's still my 3rd favorite player)


Okay it's apparent we are going to have to agree to disagree. I don't believe the ref's called the last 4 games the way you make it sound. Actually as I recall it was the Mavs up big in game 3, but D Wade saved the day, and spoiled those Parade celebrations Dallas already had made plans for. :angel:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> What part of my post didn't you understand. The Mavs specifically Dirk and Josh Howard had trouble getting to the basket because of the handchecking, jersey tugging, and bodying up that the Heat were allowed to get away with. Think about it logically if you can't get to the basket because a defender is allowed grabbing you what other option do you have. More than half the times that Dirk got the ball he would take a dribble towards the basket and somebody would already be fouling him and getting away with it.


I understood your post, but disagreed with it.

I don't agree with your sentiments on how the game was officiated. I think after time goes by, and we all clear our minds of this finals, and look back at the game on classic espn or NBA TV. We will see the last 4 games weren't as atrocious as people make it. It was also be easier to understand for some why the Heat got so many more free throws. You will be able to watch the games, and simply count how many intentional fouls the Mavs made on Shaq alone. This allowed the Heat to get into the penality much sooner than normal. Hence Wade getting to the line more. A lot of those fouls on Wade wouldn't of equaled free throws because the Mavs wouldn't of been in the penality.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

MiamiHeat03 said:


> its funny because Kobe is #2 in FT Attempts does that mean the refs help him become a star?


Good Point!

Also didn't LeBron James, and Dwyane Wade do enough the season before ? Considering they were already all stars, and very young. 

D Wade 24 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 6.8 APG

L James 27 PPG, 7 RPG, 7 APG


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## CrossOver (May 19, 2003)

23AJ said:


> You will be able to watch the games, and simply count how many intentional fouls the Mavs made on Shaq alone. This allowed the Heat to get into the penality much sooner than normal. Hence Wade getting to the line more. A lot of those fouls on Wade wouldn't of equaled free throws because the Mavs wouldn't of been in the penality.


I've been harping on this since game 6 of the finals. It seems a bit hipocritical to me those fans (Avery Johnson included) for claiming how Damp, Diop and eventually Mbenga all had 6 fouls to use up on Shaq. They go out and foul Shaq whenever he is in scoring position. They even employ hack-a-shaq getting themselves into the penalty much sooner that needed. Then they complain about a disparate amount of free throws. 

Someone earlier mentioned Marquis Daniels as being the lone Maverick willing to take the ball to the rack. I'd have to agree with you. He seemed to get into the lane at will and was causing problems for the Heat. Ironically, as aggressive as Dirk seemed to be in the semi's against the Spurs, he "reverted" to his old ways by settling for jumpshots. I remember seeing a quote from Dirk on the Heats interior defense being phenomenal. That still doesn't allow you (Dirk) the luxury of letting the other team dictate what you (Dirk, Dallas) are going to do on offense. I don't want to hear a ****ing word about the refs. If you are a man, you keep attacking and FORCE the ref's to make a call. 

All I hear is this incessant whining about how the ref's favored the Heat. The ref's baby D Wade. Yo, when I first saw this kid I was floored by how aggressive he was. As a rookie, only Heat fans knew what kind of player we had. He kept attacking and attacking. Who was this kid? Did he get any kind of hype coming into the L? He earned every damn thing he has because he doesn't back down. 

AI get's nothing but respect for his ability to drive and take punishment. DWade seems to get nothing but hate for doing the same. Oh, and for that poster that mentioned Wade flops to get calls... buddy, name me one gaurd in the L that consistently takes it to the rack as hard as he does. You don't flop if you are taking it strong. The only and I mean only fishing for fouls Wade does intentionally is the pump fake around the elbow's to the middle of the key. I don't know how many times I remember Bird doing that and not one of you here would ***** about it. One of the most basic principles on defense that is taught is to keep your feet on the ground and not bite on pump fakes. Hinrich has studied Wade to the point where he won't fall for it. Is it Wade's fault that everyone else does? No.

Lastly, the finals DID have some bad calls. If you are naive enough to belive it didn't, I don't know what to tell you. If you believe that the ref's dicated the outcome of the games... please argue this post I'd LOVE to hear what you have to say. Seriously, I would.

Oh, and to those fan's that love to point out Stern as the culprit of all that is unholy with reffereeing in the NBA I leave you with Cuban on the Letterman show...



> On helping change the NBA rules: "... I really got involved to outlaw all the handchecking and all the beating up of guys on the perimeter, so now the game's gotten a lot smoother, so you've got superstars like Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki who can take the ball to the hoop without all of that old Knicks ball, the old Pat Riley stuff, where they'd just beat up on people."


Irony, thy name is Mark.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

That quote by Mark is nice and everything but all it means is that Mark Cuban doens't like handchecking. Guess what the Heat weren't getting called for in the finals when they should have been?

So that quote holds no weight here.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

CrossOver said:


> I've been harping on this since game 6 of the finals. It seems a bit hipocritical to me those fans (Avery Johnson included) for claiming how Damp, Diop and eventually Mbenga all had 6 fouls to use up on Shaq. They go out and foul Shaq whenever he is in scoring position. They even employ hack-a-shaq getting themselves into the penalty much sooner that needed. Then they complain about a disparate amount of free throws.
> 
> Someone earlier mentioned Marquis Daniels as being the lone Maverick willing to take the ball to the rack. I'd have to agree with you. He seemed to get into the lane at will and was causing problems for the Heat. Ironically, as aggressive as Dirk seemed to be in the semi's against the Spurs, he "reverted" to his old ways by settling for jumpshots. I remember seeing a quote from Dirk on the Heats interior defense being phenomenal. That still doesn't allow you (Dirk) the luxury of letting the other team dictate what you (Dirk, Dallas) are going to do on offense. I don't want to hear a ****ing word about the refs. If you are a man, you keep attacking and FORCE the ref's to make a call.
> 
> ...



Awesome post!

Believe it people. I also incourage everyone to pick up the new SLAM magazine. It has a game by game article on the finals, and D Wade. It's worth every penny, a very good read.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

23AJ said:


> Okay it's apparent we are going to have to agree to disagree. I don't believe the ref's called the last 4 games the way you make it sound. Actually as I recall it was the Mavs up big in game 3, but D Wade saved the day, and spoiled those Parade celebrations Dallas already had made plans for. :angel:


 My bad did I say last 4? I meant to say last 3, but also I hate when people bring up the parades because every city has to plan them in advance, like a few years ago when the Boys won the super bowl, there was a huge problem and alot of stuff happend.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> To the people saying Dirk was a only a jump shooter in the finals did you ever stop and think why. Most of the time when he attacked the basket and attempted to drive Haslem bodied him up with his stomach. For all of you who play basketball you know how hard it is to get by anyone when they are allowed to play defense. The reason Mavs fans and most of the board was complaining about the calls wasn't about the Heat driving and the Mavs jumpshooting it was that whenever the Heat drove a finger couldn't be layed on them, yet when the Mavs attempted to drive the refs swallowed their whistle and let the Heat do anything necessary to get a stop.





thug_immortal8 said:


> What part of my post didn't you understand. The Mavs specifically Dirk and Josh Howard had trouble getting to the basket because of the handchecking, jersey tugging, and bodying up that the Heat were allowed to get away with. Think about it logically if you can't get to the basket because a defender is allowed grabbing you what other option do you have. More than half the times that Dirk got the ball he would take a dribble towards the basket and somebody would already be fouling him and getting away with it.


Cool...


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

M F F L said:


> My bad did I say last 4? I meant to say last 3, but also I hate when people bring up the parades because every city has to plan them in advance, like a few years ago when the Boys won the super bowl, there was a huge problem and alot of stuff happend.


There is a difference between planning a parade after you've won, and making plans after only game 2, of a 7 game series. That was gloating, etc. Whatever you want to call it. Either way, they got their butt handed to them in 4 straight games because of it. Let us not forget, that the Mavs too did get calls, but Dirk and the rest simply couldn't hit their free-throws.


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## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

CrossOver said:


> I've been harping on this since game 6 of the finals. It seems a bit hipocritical to me those fans (Avery Johnson included) for claiming how Damp, Diop and eventually Mbenga all had 6 fouls to use up on Shaq. They go out and foul Shaq whenever he is in scoring position. They even employ hack-a-shaq getting themselves into the penalty much sooner that needed. Then they complain about a disparate amount of free throws.
> 
> Someone earlier mentioned Marquis Daniels as being the lone Maverick willing to take the ball to the rack. I'd have to agree with you. He seemed to get into the lane at will and was causing problems for the Heat. Ironically, as aggressive as Dirk seemed to be in the semi's against the Spurs, he "reverted" to his old ways by settling for jumpshots. I remember seeing a quote from Dirk on the Heats interior defense being phenomenal. That still doesn't allow you (Dirk) the luxury of letting the other team dictate what you (Dirk, Dallas) are going to do on offense. I don't want to hear a ****ing word about the refs. If you are a man, you keep attacking and FORCE the ref's to make a call.
> 
> ...



Nice post---repped


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Considering that Kobe was a star before he started avering 8+ FTA a game, I'd say no.
> 
> My problem with Wade and Lebron is that they have entered the league at a time when the NBA is trying to promote itself and are changing the rules to benefit the offensive player. This is causing scoring numbers to be imploded and higher then they would have been a couple of year ago (Including Kobe's). The NBA is trying to put Wade and Lebron on a pedestool as if to say these two men are dominating the league so easily at such a young age, when the truth is taht neither of them would have averaged over 25 had they been this age in 98 or 2001 because of the way the league was back then.


LOL!!!! stupid post of the day. thats probably what you woulda have said about t-mac or iverson had they just come into the league for 3 years and scoring over 30ppg. and lebron and wade isnt dominating the league? you say the rules are the only reason? then why aren't there more ppl "dominating" the league if the rules are the only reason that lebron and wade score over 25 (again...LOL!!!). you have to be dumb or blind not to realize that bron and wade have hall of fame talent. so by your assessment, every star player from 2003 till God comes doesn't really have the capability of scoring over 25ppg. its only because of the rules. you really need to start watching more ball. maybe then you can recognize greatness through your purple and gold contacts


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Wade and LeBron do however greatly benefit from the new rules. Are they still stars? yes. But they are still greatly aided with the new, 'softer' rules.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

are lebron and wade the only two people playing in the L? i could have sworn there were couiple hundred...so why aren't they stars??? the rule is for everyone right? maybe i missed Stern's memo where he said "the new rules are solely for lebron and wade." my point is that the rules help EVERYONE. if the rules were absent, EVERYONES production would go down...not just lerbon and wade's. AI, Arenas, Kobe, even friggin Darko's production would be down. with that said...lebron and wade would STILL be dominating the league. and you all fail to realize their dominance is not in their scoring...but their all around game. what about the new rules allow lebron to grab 7 and dish 7? what about them allows wade to grab 6 and dish 7? what allows them to make clutch shots? gamewinners? ppl are too caught up with scoring. no scoring leader in the past5 or 6 years has even MADE the finals. being a star isnt one dimensional. if lebron scored 20 points he would still be a superstar IMO. Wade scored less than arenas, but no one would question who is better.


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## g-dog-rice#2 (Jan 29, 2006)

You make a good point duncan2k5. Wade and Lebron are great all-around players. But the NBA Finals was a joke, no denying that. Wade was getting touch fouls that no other players get. And the refs bailed him in out game 3. They hardly ever let the game be decided by free-throws.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

i can ASSURE YOu, had it been dirk who had his arm grabbed by wade, and pushed in the back by shaq...gotten no call and lost the game, no one would have sid it was fair. no one would be saying "the refs did the right thing...you dont make calls like that with the game on the line". there would be an uproar about how wade and shaq is allowed to get away with hacking. i dont know why there is this strong disdain for them, but its there. NO ONE was complaining about how dirk got freethrows at the end of the SA series in GAME 7!!!! thatr practically cost the spurs a championship. no one said CRAP about it. and i was fine with the call to be honest. i was more pissed at gino for fouling him. look back at my posts. never once i said they should have never called it. i was more mad at the calls they were giving dirk earlier on in the series when he fell over his own feet, and they called the foul on brent barry who was 6 feet away looking at a female's breasts in the upper deck. and i think that was because most ppl on here wanted the mavs to beat the spurs...so they didnt care. but when it comes to wade and co..."oh its a travesty". plz. even Jordan had gamewinning freethrows. all players get them. i saw kobe shoot a 3 pointer against the jazz as the time ran out...stare the ref down after me miss, saw the ref call a foul on devin brown (whose shadow MAY have breathed on kobe's shadow), take freethrows to eventually win the game.

players even get charges called in the final seconds. i remember when billups got called for a charge when he plowed over jason kidd couple years back in the final seconds. remember this year they called a foul on the nets when anthony johnson (ANTHONY JOHNSON FOR CRYIONG OUT LOUD) barely got touched going to the rim in a close game going down to the final seconds. no one said crap about any of those. i saw the heat get called for like 36 charges in game 4 (almost all pretty obvious flops). no one claimed the refs were "cheating" for the mavs. but they see harris grabbing wade's bicep clear as day, and _irk pushing wade in the back (wade ven said he got fouled twice before he saw any replays), and its a sin. to all that i say...wow


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## NetsFan (Aug 9, 2005)

how come in game 5 the push off on terry by wade and the Howards short's holded on wade werent called


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## CrossOver (May 19, 2003)

NetsFan said:


> how come in game 5 the push off on terry by wade and the Howards short's holded on wade werent called


First of all, short's holded? Please elaborate.

Secondly, how come they called a foul on Gary Payton in game 6 when Jason Terry initiated all of the contact? Why did they call a foul on Antoine who was just standing with his arms straight up and Dirk was not even touched? Dirk got those two freebies but of course, karma is a ***** and he missed one of two?

The officiating left alot to be desired, but for everyone that's sitting there crying about it p.m. me and I'll send you a handkerchief. What's unbelievable in my eyes is the fact that the aggressors always get the mojority of the calls and people STILL expect a jumpshooting Dallas team to have gotten alot more calls than they did.


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## CrossOver (May 19, 2003)

thug_immortal8 said:


> That quote by Mark is nice and everything but all it means is that Mark Cuban doens't like handchecking. Guess what the Heat weren't getting called for in the finals when they should have been?
> 
> So that quote holds no weight here.


It's pretty hard to get called for handchecking while you are running through screens trying to keep up with their *cough* jumpshooters. *cough*

Guess what the Heat were taking advantage of with Wade continously driving to the rack while Dallas was in the penalty. All the while people ***** about Haslem's defense on Dirk. Dirk is a super star. Dirk needs to grow a sack and FORCE the refs to make a call. Once that white flag went up, the Heat would've won 10 straight. 

Nice try but your Kung Fu is weak.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> are lebron and wade the only two people playing in the L? i could have sworn there were couiple hundred...so why aren't they stars???


Chill out, homie. Stop catching feelings. I said Wade and Bron are still stars. Yes, the rules effect everyone.



> my point is that the rules help EVERYONE. if the rules were absent, EVERYONES production would go down...not just lerbon and wade's. AI, Arenas, Kobe, even friggin Darko's production would be down.


Not neccasarily true. Kobe, A.I., Duncan, etc. all put up similar great numbers, when people WERE actually allowed to play defense. It's a bit different.



> with that said...lebron and wade would STILL be dominating the league. and you all fail to realize their dominance is not in their scoring...but their all around game. what about the new rules allow lebron to grab 7 and dish 7? what about them allows wade to grab 6 and dish 7? what allows them to make clutch shots? gamewinners? ppl are too caught up with scoring. no scoring leader in the past5 or 6 years has even MADE the finals. being a star isnt one dimensional. if lebron scored 20 points he would still be a superstar IMO. Wade scored less than arenas, but no one would question who is better.


Agreed, and that's why we consider them stars. But in comparing their numbers, especially on offensse, you do have to realize that they are slightly skewed because of the new rules, and process of officiating.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Fact of the matter is, you don't call a foul on a play like that to end the game. If it was a definitive foul, that's fine...but it wasn't. If it was a definitive foul, there wouldn't be so much uproar about it. It looked like Wade flopped more than anything, cause he knew his momentum wasn't going to take him to the position he wanted, so he exaggerated the little contact that was there. Smart? Sure... Ginobli-esque? Definetely. But bball isn't about acting, which what players are trying to do now, in order to get to the line, as opposed to just playing. Did the Heat deserve to win the Chip? Most definetely. The Mavs tucked their tales between their legs, and ran away.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

CrossOver said:


> It's pretty hard to get called for handchecking while you are running through screens trying to keep up with their *cough* jumpshooters. *cough*
> 
> Guess what the Heat were taking advantage of with Wade continously driving to the rack while Dallas was in the penalty. All the while people ***** about Haslem's defense on Dirk. Dirk is a super star. Dirk needs to grow a sack and FORCE the refs to make a call. Once that white flag went up, the Heat would've won 10 straight.
> 
> Nice try but your Kung Fu is weak.


 Stop trying to make it seem like all Dallas did was have 5 shooters around the 3 point line waiting to hoist up a 3. The way you seem to talk makes it seem like you didn't watch the series at all. You too obsessed with Dallas being a jumpshooting team that it's affecting the way you think about them. Throughout the series Haslem was allowed to do pretty much anything to Dirk, granted that Haslem is a good defender and could stay in front of Dirk without always commiting a foul, it became disgusting to watch as Wade would dribble the ball have a defender withing a foot of him and get the call 20 feet from the basket, but Dirk would have the ball the same length from the net, with Haslem using both hands on Dirk's hip, and his chest on Dirk as well, and the refs would swallow their whistle. What do you expect Dirk to do in that situation, if the refs aren't calling any fouls in your favor for 3 games in a row.

Where are you getting this thing about Dirk "growing" balls. Whats that even supposed to mean, if it means he should take contact like a man, then maybe Wade should grow some balls too, and not flop every time somebody breaths on him. If it means he should drive to the basket more maybe he would have done that if the refs hadn't allowed Haslem to play defense with every part of his body. 

How hard is it to understand that the Heat were allowed to play more physically then the Mavs, the refs were inconsistent from one end of the floor to the other. Two identical plays wouldn't be called the same depending on what team was on defense. 

I can tell you right now that if J Howard, Jerry Stackhouse, Devin Harris and Adrian Griffin were allowed to do to Wade what Haslem and Posey did to Dirk, you wouldn't be in here saying Wade should grow some balls.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

And to Duncan2k5, I'm not going to bother arguing with you because it won't accomplish anything, you ahve a fixed mindset and you think you're always correct. You have no facts when you argue and you try to pass of your opinion as fact. Also give it up with the Kobe hate it's sad and pathetic, maybe you should attempt to get a life, you talk about him more than any of his fans, you seem to be obsessed with him and it's not healthy. You clearly have some issues that need to be resolved. Even in that picture with Duncan that you're in, you look angered, and if you can't be happy when you meet your favorite player then clearly something is wrong.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Stop trying to make it seem like all Dallas did was have 5 shooters around the 3 point line waiting to hoist up a 3. The way you seem to talk makes it seem like you didn't watch the series at all. You too obsessed with Dallas being a jumpshooting team that it's affecting the way you think about them. Throughout the series Haslem was allowed to do pretty much anything to Dirk, granted that Haslem is a good defender and could stay in front of Dirk without always commiting a foul, it became disgusting to watch as Wade would dribble the ball have a defender withing a foot of him and get the call 20 feet from the basket, but Dirk would have the ball the same length from the net, with Haslem using both hands on Dirk's hip, and his chest on Dirk as well, and the refs would swallow their whistle. What do you expect Dirk to do in that situation, if the refs aren't calling any fouls in your favor for 3 games in a row.
> 
> Where are you getting this thing about Dirk "growing" balls. Whats that even supposed to mean, if it means he should take contact like a man, then maybe Wade should grow some balls too, and not flop every time somebody breaths on him. If it means he should drive to the basket more maybe he would have done that if the refs hadn't allowed Haslem to play defense with every part of his body.
> 
> ...


every part that has been highlighted is 100% on point...


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> And to Duncan2k5, I'm not going to bother arguing with you because it won't accomplish anything, you ahve a fixed mindset and you think you're always correct. You have no facts when you argue and you try to pass of your opinion as fact. Also give it up with the Kobe hate it's sad and pathetic, maybe you should attempt to get a life, you talk about him more than any of his fans, you seem to be obsessed with him and it's not healthy. You clearly have some issues that need to be resolved.* Even in that picture with Duncan that you're in, you look angered, and if you can't be happy when you meet your favorite player then clearly something is wrong*.


Bwahaha, Post of the year. That last part literally made me spit out koolaide. Bwahahaha. My man is salty, bitter, and just down right hateful. Hater of the year. :clown:


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Stop trying to make it seem like all Dallas did was have 5 shooters around the 3 point line waiting to hoist up a 3. The way you seem to talk makes it seem like you didn't watch the series at all. You too obsessed with Dallas being a jumpshooting team that it's affecting the way you think about them. Throughout the series Haslem was allowed to do pretty much anything to Dirk, granted that Haslem is a good defender and could stay in front of Dirk without always commiting a foul, it became disgusting to watch as Wade would dribble the ball have a defender withing a foot of him and get the call 20 feet from the basket, but Dirk would have the ball the same length from the net, with Haslem using both hands on Dirk's hip, and his chest on Dirk as well, and the refs would swallow their whistle. What do you expect Dirk to do in that situation, if the refs aren't calling any fouls in your favor for 3 games in a row.
> 
> Where are you getting this thing about Dirk "growing" balls. Whats that even supposed to mean, if it means he should take contact like a man, then maybe Wade should grow some balls too, and not flop every time somebody breaths on him. If it means he should drive to the basket more maybe he would have done that if the refs hadn't allowed Haslem to play defense with every part of his body.
> 
> ...


 You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thug_immortal8 again.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

thug is tearing it up.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Stop trying to make it seem like all Dallas did was have 5 shooters around the 3 point line waiting to hoist up a 3. The way you seem to talk makes it seem like you didn't watch the series at all. You too obsessed with Dallas being a jumpshooting team that it's affecting the way you think about them. Throughout the series Haslem was allowed to do pretty much anything to Dirk, granted that Haslem is a good defender and could stay in front of Dirk without always commiting a foul, it became disgusting to watch as Wade would dribble the ball have a defender withing a foot of him and get the call 20 feet from the basket, but Dirk would have the ball the same length from the net, with Haslem using both hands on Dirk's hip, and his chest on Dirk as well, and the refs would swallow their whistle. What do you expect Dirk to do in that situation, if the refs aren't calling any fouls in your favor for 3 games in a row.
> 
> Where are you getting this thing about Dirk "growing" balls. Whats that even supposed to mean, if it means he should take contact like a man, then maybe Wade should grow some balls too, and not flop every time somebody breaths on him. If it means he should drive to the basket more maybe he would have done that if the refs hadn't allowed Haslem to play defense with every part of his body.
> 
> ...


Check this out....

I looked up the FTA in the six games. It was only the last two games that there was any major difference.

I also took a look at the teams scoring inside. The Mavericks didn't even compare to the Heats scoring inside until the final two games.

By the way I don't remember anyone complaining during last year's finals game 2 when the Spurs had a big advantage via Free Throws over the Pistons.

*Pistons free throws - 10-16*
*Spurs free throws - 28-34*

Game 1.) Miami FT Made-Attempted 7-19 (.368) 
Game 1.) Dallas FT Made-Attempted 20-26 (.769)

*Points in the Paint Game one -*

Miami - 46

Dallas - 30

Game 2.) Miami FT Made-Attempted 20-32 (.625) 
Game 2.) Dallas FT Made-Attempted 23-28 (.821)

*Points in the paint game two -*

Miami - 40

Dallas - 28

Game 3.) Miami FT Made-Attempted 20-34 (.588)
Game 3.) Dallas FT Made-Attempted 18-26 (.692)

*Points in the paint game three -*

Miami - 52

Dallas - 34

Game 4.) Miami FT Made-Attempted 23-36 (.639) 
Game 4.) Dallas FT Made-Attempted 21-27 (.778) 

*Points in the paint game four -*

Miami - 42

Dallas - 26

Game 5.) Miami FT Made-Attempted 32-49 (.653) 
Game 5.) Dallas FT Made-Attempted 21-25 (.840) 

*Points in the paint game five -*

Miami - 28

Dallas - 26

Game 6.) Miami FT Made-Attempted 23-37 (.622) 
Game 6.) Dallas FT Made-Attempted 19-23 (.826)

*Points in the paint game six -*

Miami - 32

Dallas - 44


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

23AJ why post stats? Did you even read what thug posted?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

t1no said:


> 23AJ why post stats? Did you even read what thug posted?


Yes I did, but I'm not going to get into an argument about what kind of players Wade/Dirk are. They are both top notch.

End of story there.

However the stats tell a different story then most are suggesting, regarding the free throws, and the team that was most aggressive.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

23AJ said:


> Yes I did, but I'm not going to get into an argument about what kind of players Wade/Dirk are. They are both top notch.
> 
> End of story there.
> 
> However the stats tell a different story then most are suggesting, regarding the free throws, and the team that was most aggressive.


Who's getting into an argument about what kind of players Wade/Dirk are? Did you just make that up? and say End of story there? lol....
Stats? FT's? Aggressive?
Sure let me copy and paste
"Stop trying to make it seem like all Dallas did was have 5 shooters around the 3 point line waiting to hoist up a 3. The way you seem to talk makes it seem like you didn't watch the series at all. You too obsessed with Dallas being a jumpshooting team that it's affecting the way you think about them. Throughout the series Haslem was allowed to do pretty much anything to Dirk, granted that Haslem is a good defender and could stay in front of Dirk without always commiting a foul, it became disgusting to watch as Wade would dribble the ball have a defender withing a foot of him and get the call 20 feet from the basket, but Dirk would have the ball the same length from the net, with Haslem using both hands on Dirk's hip, and his chest on Dirk as well, and the refs would swallow their whistle. What do you expect Dirk to do in that situation, if the refs aren't calling any fouls in your favor for 3 games in a row."
"To the people saying Dirk was a only a jump shooter in the finals did you ever stop and think why. Most of the time when he attacked the basket and attempted to drive Haslem bodied him up with his stomach. For all of you who play basketball you know how hard it is to get by anyone when they are allowed to play defense. The reason Mavs fans and most of the board was complaining about the calls wasn't about the Heat driving and the Mavs jumpshooting it was that whenever the Heat drove a finger couldn't be layed on them, yet when the Mavs attempted to drive the refs swallowed their whistle and let the Heat do anything necessary to get a stop."
"What part of my post didn't you understand. The Mavs specifically Dirk and Josh Howard had trouble getting to the basket because of the handchecking, jersey tugging, and bodying up that the Heat were allowed to get away with. Think about it logically if you can't get to the basket because a defender is allowed grabbing you what other option do you have. More than half the times that Dirk got the ball he would take a dribble towards the basket and somebody would already be fouling him and getting away with it."
All by thug_immortal8


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

t1no said:


> Who's getting into an argument about what kind of players Wade/Dirk are? Did you just make that up? and say End of story there? lol....
> Stats? FT's? Aggressive?
> Sure let me copy and paste
> "Stop trying to make it seem like all Dallas did was have 5 shooters around the 3 point line waiting to hoist up a 3. The way you seem to talk makes it seem like you didn't watch the series at all. You too obsessed with Dallas being a jumpshooting team that it's affecting the way you think about them. Throughout the series Haslem was allowed to do pretty much anything to Dirk, granted that Haslem is a good defender and could stay in front of Dirk without always commiting a foul, it became disgusting to watch as Wade would dribble the ball have a defender withing a foot of him and get the call 20 feet from the basket, but Dirk would have the ball the same length from the net, with Haslem using both hands on Dirk's hip, and his chest on Dirk as well, and the refs would swallow their whistle. What do you expect Dirk to do in that situation, if the refs aren't calling any fouls in your favor for 3 games in a row."
> ...


*Again I disagree with the immortal8*. Also the discussion about the sack Wade/Dirk have, and carry is not really a discussion I care to get into. Because IMO they both are top tier stars doing great things in the NBA.

Here is that quote -



> Where are you getting this thing about Dirk "growing" balls. Whats that even supposed to mean, if it means he should take contact like a man, then maybe Wade should grow some balls too, and not flop every time somebody breaths on him. If it means he should drive to the basket more maybe he would have done that if the refs hadn't allowed Haslem to play defense with every part of his body.


End of story regarding that.

The stats on the other hand do suggest another perspective then the one currently being represented by most people who were frustrated by the finals.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Of course you are going to disagree just like i disagree with you since you are a Heat fan and i am a Mavericks fan (but really, pulling up stats doesn't really help your case but who cares right? end of story). It's still interesting to read what the NBA fans think about LeBron and Wade.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

Your supposed to do whatever it takes to win, everynight down the floor. Simply put it, the Dallas Mavericks Perimeter defense could not contain Dwyane Wade. Do not cry because of that. Instead, do play Anthony Johnson as your starter.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> Your supposed to do whatever it takes to win, everynight down the floor. Simply put it, the Dallas Mavericks Perimeter defense could not contain Dwyane Wade. Do not cry because of that. Instead, do play Anthony Johnson as your starter.


NBA fans like you really bore me, who's crying?


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

why preach to me that players like duncan was scoring the same before the rules? the rules affect perimeter players more than post players. Kobe wasnt scoring 35ppg before the rules. the most he ever scored was 30. only iverson and mcgrady were scoring over 30ppg. so that point is moot...

thug theres some stats for u. i always have stats in my post...you just dont see them. you concentrate solely on hating ME because i hate kobe. and i am overjoyed in that pic. dont hold it against me that i'm not the smiling type. everyone can't be Pee Wee Herman.

and what stats do YOU have in your post Thug_immortal? all you are talking about is refs and whistles. check all my posts...they ALL have stats in them somewhere. and yes...i always think i'm right unless im proven wrong. isn't that the point of debating? no one debates a point if they think they are worng. so get off my jock and stay on topic.

and ppl complaining that haslem gets away with a lot seem to forget the times he was called for touch fouls on the perimeter, and dirk was awarded freethrows. and why was no one complaining about when dirk fouled antoine walker on the fast break and they didnt call foul? dont look at one side of the spectrum and cry about how unfair the refs are. the mavs got away with so much crap. once again i bring up flopgate...when for a span of 2 quarters the heat were being called for offensive fouls on every flop the mavs make. the one against payton at the 3 point line was classic! i almost laughed out loud. to some im sure it looked as of the refs were trying to make dallas come back, but no one said crap, because many of you didnt wanna see d wade and shaq win a title.

you all spend time baching wade and the refs. you all fail to realize it was dallas who choked. TWO seperate games they had freethrows at the end that would have had a significant impact on the outcome. remember game 5 when they made ALL of their freethrows, then at the end dirk missed one, then daniels missed 2 ina row?

then what about wade bringing them back from down double digits with 6 minutes to go in game 3? making damn near every jumpshot he took? then dirk missing the freethrows at the end. talk about that.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> why preach to me that players like duncan was scoring the same before the rules? the rules affect perimeter players more than post players. Kobe wasnt scoring 35ppg before the rules. the most he ever scored was 30. only iverson and mcgrady were scoring over 30ppg. so that point is moot...


No, that point is not moot. All these players mentioned were legit stars, doing their thing, putting up just as good of numbers before the rule changes. And yes, Kobe hadn't averaged 35 ppg before this year. That certainly isn't to say he didn't have the capability of doing so. He had to share the ball, and dump off alot of his touches in order to satisfy one, Shaquille O'Neal. I mean, you make it sound like averaging 30 ppg (Kobe in 02-03) is nothing, when in actuality, it is quite a feat considering he was also on a team with someone who was averaging 27.5 points per game. Neither T-Mac or A.I. had anyone in the VICINITY of putting up that many points next to their slightly above 30 ppg average. Kobe very well could have averaged 35 ppg before the league changed its rules, to benefit peremiter players. But don't get it twisted on the Duncan tip. They benefit from the rules as well. Alot of what was hard fouls back in the day, are flagrants now, etc. Duncan does benefit from a tighter refereed game.


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## beamer05 (Feb 24, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> why preach to me that players like duncan was scoring the same before the rules? the rules affect perimeter players more than post players. Kobe wasnt scoring 35ppg before the rules. the most he ever scored was 30. only iverson and mcgrady were scoring over 30ppg. so that point is moot...
> 
> thug theres some stats for u. i always have stats in my post...you just dont see them. you concentrate solely on hating ME because i hate kobe. and i am overjoyed in that pic. dont hold it against me that i'm not the smiling type. everyone can't be Pee Wee Herman.
> 
> ...


Now, I love how you are trying to stick up for d.wade/ bron and such. I really do.. however, it's really kind of ridiculous that you take so much time to defend some great superstars and then you just totally hate another. It seems somewhat hypocrtical.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

beamer05 said:


> Now, I love how you are trying to stick up for d.wade/ bron and such. I really do.. however, it's really kind of ridiculous that you take so much time to defend some great superstars and then you just totally hate another. It seems somewhat hypocrtical.



bam! repped...


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Here is a summary of things I have picked up from this thread: 

A. Wade and LeBron get superstar treatment, but not anymore than any other superstar (or top 5-10 player)
B. However, Wade, in the finals, got the benefit from the officials more so than usual. 
C. They are great players, but the beef is with the officiating
D. Kobe is a reference point for all NBA-related topics


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> so get off my jock and stay on topic.


haha I find this hilarious becuase you can't seem to get off of LeBron and DWades jockstrap. So quit being a hypocrite and stay on topic.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Here is a summary of things I have picked up from this thread:
> 
> A. Wade and LeBron get superstar treatment, but not anymore than any other superstar (or top 5-10 player)
> B. However, Wade, in the finals, got the benefit from the officials more so than usual.
> C. They are great players, but the beef is with the officiating


You can all thank Jordan for bringing in the superstar treatment. And it ain't going away anytime soon, unless if you've had a lockout and let the players revamp the game entirely from the ground up.


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## thacarter (Mar 27, 2006)

I respect both players but absolutely hate it when they face the Nets and by the way i just felt i had to say this
Kobe>>>>Lebron>>>Wade


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## EnricoPalazzo (Jul 2, 2006)

> I respect both players but absolutely hate it when they face the Nets and by the way i just felt i had to say this
> Kobe>>>>Lebron>>>Wade


I agree with that order of ranking, but I bet both Kobe and Lebron would trade all those >>>>>>> for Wade's 2006 Championship and Finals MVP trophy.


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## thacarter (Mar 27, 2006)

EnricoPalazzo said:


> I agree with that order of ranking, but I bet both Kobe and Lebron would trade all those >>>>>>> for Wade's 2006 Championship and Finals MVP trophy.


nope,championships while a necessity plays less of a factor when comparing players in just about the same tier


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

EnricoPalazzo said:


> I agree with that order of ranking, but I bet both Kobe and Lebron would trade all those >>>>>>> for Wade's 2006 Championship and Finals MVP trophy.


Kobe has 3 rings. Just next time, he will get it as the undisputed leader of his team. So he can remove one more thing from the hater's hate list.


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## MVP™ (Jun 11, 2006)

It's not that Miami Heat, It's the Miami Wade.



:curse:


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

DiirkLUVA41 said:


> It's not that Miami Heat, It's the Miami Wade.
> 
> 
> 
> :curse:



hahahahaha


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

not funny


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> not funny


hahaha, your just mad because you know its true.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

Miami Wade?
Nothing true about that so.......


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Without Wade getting all those free-throws the Heat wouldnt have won the close games (game 5)


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> I guarantee a Game 7 win for the spurs and the cavs. the cavs were 1 rebound from winning the series, and The King (to which i am a witness) will not let anyone else take rule over this series. and we all know manu...he will NOT let the spurs lose at home. ive BEEN saying from the beginning it will be spurs and cavs in the finals, and im sticking to it. ive been indifferent to the Mavs...now i HATE them. and ive always hated detroit's flopping-***-team. its one thing when ppl say manu flops, because he doesn't have a "tough guy" reputation. but for a team that are supposed to be so physical and intimidating...detroit is pretty soft and floppy. thats all


Bump.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

M F F L said:


> Without Wade getting all those free-throws the Heat wouldnt have won the close games (game 5)


That is an immature statement. I saw Josh Howard, and Dirk Nowitski get many a call down the stretch as well... they just MISSED THEIR FREE-THROWS. Do Mavs fans permenately try to forget this? Please, I don't agree with some of the fouls they called...but don't hang your hat on referees for your loses. You LOST, homie. Because the Mavs just got outplayed. If the Mavs weren't always: giving up leads, falling in love with jumpers, missing free-throws, calling timeouts when they shouldn't etc. You wouldn't even have to worry about what fouls are called for Wade.

The Mavs lost, cause they got outplayed. The calls on Wade, were just bad calls. They didn't win the games for Miami, or lose them for the Mavericks.


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## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

Whack Arnolds said:


> That is an immature statement. I saw Josh Howard, and Dirk Nowitski get many a call down the stretch as well... they just MISSED THEIR FREE-THROWS. Do Mavs fans permenately try to forget this? Please, I don't agree with some of the fouls they called...but don't hang your hat on referees for your loses. You LOST, homie. Because the Mavs just got outplayed. If the Mavs weren't always: giving up leads, falling in love with jumpers, missing free-throws, calling timeouts when they shouldn't etc. You wouldn't even have to worry about what fouls are called for Wade.
> 
> *The Mavs lost, cause they got outplayed.* The calls on Wade, were just bad calls. They didn't win the games for Miami, or lose them for the Mavericks.




Bingo. Excellent post--repped.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Okay I will set the record straight, both teams got their fair share of cheap foul calls but the Heat got more than the Mavs and the Pistons, and the Cavs got more than the Pistons and Wizards. If you can't see that (duncan2k5) then you weren't watching the same playoffs that were being shown on national TV. You said Harris and Nowitzki kept knocking Wade on his ***? Well how about Haslems raping of Nowitzki in which there was more contact than one of the Mavericks put on Wade? Did you see that Duncan2k5 huh? How about Gary Payton who kept fouling the **** out of Harris, Terry, and to a lesser extent Billups? Last time I checked pushing and shoving wasn't defense. You are just mad because the Mavericks beat the Spurs so don't take your hate out on everyone who actually watched the finals and saw what happened. Dwayne Wade got fouled, sure, but Nowitzki and Terry were fouled just as bad if not worse. So just let it go.


Also I am not a Pistons fan, although after seeing Dwade get damn near every call early in the series I wanted Dwade and the Heat to lose. I am a NY Knicks fan. haha


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

EHL said:


> Bump.


 :rofl:


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Whack Arnolds said:


> That is an immature statement. I saw Josh Howard, and Dirk Nowitski get many a call down the stretch as well... they just MISSED THEIR FREE-THROWS. Do Mavs fans permenately try to forget this? Please, I don't agree with some of the fouls they called...but don't hang your hat on referees for your loses. You LOST, homie. Because the Mavs just got outplayed. If the Mavs weren't always: giving up leads, falling in love with jumpers, missing free-throws, calling timeouts when they shouldn't etc. You wouldn't even have to worry about what fouls are called for Wade.
> 
> The Mavs lost, cause they got outplayed. The calls on Wade, were just bad calls. They didn't win the games for Miami, or lose them for the Mavericks.


 The Mavs had to take jumpshots because everytime they went inside and got banged up not a single foul was called, as when Wade attacked he got every foul he wanted and more. I'm not taking the championship away from the Heat. All I was saying is if Wade even got 2 or 3 less free-throws in game 5 the Heat wouldnt have won.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Okay I will set the record straight, both teams got their fair share of cheap foul calls but the Heat got more than the Mavs and the Pistons, and the Cavs got more than the Pistons and Wizards. If you can't see that (duncan2k5) then you weren't watching the same playoffs that were being shown on national TV. You said Harris and Nowitzki kept knocking Wade on his ***? Well how about Haslems raping of Nowitzki in which there was more contact than one of the Mavericks put on Wade? Did you see that Duncan2k5 huh? How about Gary Payton who kept fouling the **** out of Harris, Terry, and to a lesser extent Billups? Last time I checked pushing and shoving wasn't defense. You are just mad because the Mavericks beat the Spurs so don't take your hate out on everyone who actually watched the finals and saw what happened. Dwayne Wade got fouled, sure, but Nowitzki and Terry were fouled just as bad if not worse. So just let it go.
> 
> 
> Also I am not a Pistons fan, although after seeing Dwade get damn near every call early in the series I wanted Dwade and the Heat to lose. I am a NY Knicks fan. haha


 Repped.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

M F F L said:


> The Mavs had to take jumpshots because everytime they went inside and got banged up not a single foul was called, as when Wade attacked he got every foul he wanted and more. I'm not taking the championship away from the Heat. All I was saying is if Wade even got 2 or 3 less free-throws in game 5 the Heat wouldnt have won.


No, cause you don't know who would've won with out the call. That was the same game Dirk missed 2 free-throws in the end of the game, to go up by 2. Don't act as if Dirk and the Mavs players couldn't drive, cause they wouldn't get calls. They were getting D'ed up. It had nothing to do with not getting calls. They weren't getting fouled. Otherwise, the over-protective refs would've called it. They called EVERYTHING. The Mavs, just gave up on taking it to the hole. The only one I saw remotely try to do that was Daniels and at times, Jason Terry.

That is exactly what you're doing, trying to diminish what they did, by blaming the refs. It is a cop out move. The Mavs lost, cause they weren't the better ball club. Plain and simple. A better ball-club would not go up 2-0 and lose the next 4, regardless of what calls were made. The Mavericks were the inferior basketball team. Get tougher, and bring it next year. Don't make excuses. Excuses is for losers.


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## NetsFan (Aug 9, 2005)

exactly the heat were allowed play 90's d

while the refs allowed the Mavs to play the retarded 2006 d


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

That is opinion, and nothing more. There is no fact to back that up.


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## NetsFan (Aug 9, 2005)

Whack Arnolds said:


> That is opinion, and nothing more. There is no fact to back that up.


Watch how Dirk was guarded and watch how Wade was guarded

compare how each was guarded


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

NetsFan said:


> Watch how Dirk was guarded and watch how Wade was guarded
> 
> compare how each was guarded


Yeah, but Wade blows by his defenders and goes to the cup. Dirk half *** tries to drive, then pulls up for J's.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Whack Arnolds said:


> Yeah, but Wade blows by his defenders and goes to the cup. Dirk half *** tries to drive, then pulls up for J's.



only reason dirk's drives looked half-assed, was because haslem was grabbing his jersey/arms/legs the whole time...


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> only reason dirk's drives looked half-assed, was because haslem was grabbing his jersey/arms/legs the whole time...


Ummm, proof?


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## NetsFan (Aug 9, 2005)

> Wade blows by his defenders and goes to the cup


Wade can do this because the refs stop his defenders from playing anytype of physically defense on with out being called for a foul


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

NetsFan said:


> exactly the heat were allowed play 90's d
> 
> while the refs allowed the Mavs to play the retarded 2006 d


 Exactly...

There were so many offense fouls on Wade that didnt get called but the slightest touch on Wade when he had the ball and it was an automattic whistle.

And No Whack I'm not taking the championship away... Yes the Mavs choked BUT IF THE REFS WERE CONSISTENT we might have had a new NBA Champion...


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Whack Arnolds said:


> Yeah, but Wade blows by his defenders and goes to the cup. Dirk half *** tries to drive, then pulls up for J's.


Ummm, proof?


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

NetsFan said:


> Wade can do this because the refs stop his defenders from playing anytype of physically defense on with out being called for a foul



bingo, we have a winner...


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## beamer05 (Feb 24, 2006)

M F F L said:


> Exactly...
> 
> There were so many offense fouls on Wade that didnt get called but the slightest touch on Wade when he had the ball and it was an automattic whistle.
> 
> And No Whack I'm not taking the championship away... Yes the Mavs choked BUT IF THE REFS WERE CONSISTENT we might have had a new NBA Champion...



BUT, we don't and wont have a new champ.. so what is the point of debating this? It's really getting kind of old.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

since when did the mavs play defense? they have no one who can guard wade. i remember 20 offensive fouls bein called in a row in game 5. i remember j ho choking on freethrows and calling a timeout. mavs choked


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

beamer05 said:


> BUT, we don't and wont have a new champ.. so what is the point of debating this? It's really getting kind of old.


 Exactly, I wasnt taking anything away from them...


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> since when did the mavs play defense? they have no one who can guard wade. i remember 20 offensive fouls bein called in a row in game 5. i remember j ho choking on freethrows and calling a timeout. mavs choked


 LMFAO at your ignorance..

Yeah Mavs choked some what... Mavs fans have been saying that if Dirk didnt miss those free's or even if J-Ho didnt we could be looking at somthing special now...

I dont know whats funnier, you hatred for the Mavs or your ignorance. :rofl:


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

[worst poster ever]


Brandname said:


> Exactly. Good thing the referees are actively trying to make Lebron and Wade seem better than they actually are. Otherwise, they probably would be 2nd tier stars. Not as good as the top players in the game, but above average. I think it's a conspiracy started by David Stern.


[/worst poster ever]

/never post again


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

pmac34 said:


> [worst poster ever]
> [/worst poster ever]
> 
> /never post again


Don't make yourself look bad. Read the entire thread.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

M F F L said:


> LMFAO at your ignorance..
> 
> Yeah Mavs choked some what... Mavs fans have been saying that if Dirk didnt miss those free's or even if J-Ho didnt we could be looking at somthing special now...
> 
> I dont know whats funnier, you hatred for the Mavs or your ignorance. :rofl:


hmmmm...so you agree with me....but you call me ignorant...BRILLIANT!


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> hmmmm...so you agree with me....but you call me ignorant...BRILLIANT!





duncan2k5 said:


> since when did the mavs play defense? they have no one who can guard wade. i remember 20 offensive fouls bein called in a row in game 5. i remember j ho choking on freethrows and calling a timeout. mavs choked


He agreed with you that the Mavericks choked in the Finals but not the Defense part and that's why he called you ignorant. :biggrin:


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

He calls you ignorant because you claim to have watched the playoffs, yet you still think that the Mavs don't play defense.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

so the mavs played defense then? the heat shot good against them, the suns shot good against them the spurs killed them offensively (there was even game 2 or 3 where we made 10 straight fg in the 4th quarter, whiule the mavs shot 50 straight freethrows...like when dirk tripped over himself and barry got called for the foul). so NO...the mavs SUCK at defense. kobe would have probably scored 100 on them if they let him play the 4th quarter. so dont act like the mavs are the spurs on D. they suck at it, was never good at it.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

anyone who thinks the mavs play great defense dont watch ball. they are not as horrible as they used to be, but they still aren't good


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

i hate tim dincan, he sucks.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

ok...now that THAT's out your system...


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

The Mavericks are horrible on D but still won against the Spurs. Amazing!!


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

t1no said:


> The Mavericks are horrible on D but still won against the Spurs. Amazing!!



spurs must really be a crappy team. wow, they suck...


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

t1no said:


> The Mavericks are horrible on D but still won against the Spurs. Amazing!!


 :rofl:

Mavs were 7th last year in defensive rating, I dont get where you see that the Mavs dont play D.

Just pure ignorance


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

thug_immortal8 said:


> He calls you ignorant because you claim to have watched the playoffs, yet you still think that the Mavs don't play defense.


 Exactly


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

so where was it during the playoffs?
the playoffs and regular season are 2 different beasts. the mavs SUCKED at defense in the playoffs. anyone who disagrees dont know what they are talkin about.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> so where was it during the playoffs?
> the playoffs and regular season are 2 different beasts. the mavs SUCKED at defense in the playoffs. anyone who disagrees dont know what they are talkin about.


"The Mavs SUCKED at defense in the playoffs" and the Mavericks still won against the Spurs. "anyone who disagrees dont know what they are talking about" This dude is a joke lol.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Agrred t1no agreed...

Man if the Mavs dont play D how did they beat the Spurs? So your basically saying the Spurs suck sooo much that a team doesnt need to play defense to win against them (and NO I am not hating on the Spurs, I actually somewhat like them now)


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> so where was it during the playoffs?
> the playoffs and regular season are 2 different beasts. the mavs SUCKED at defense in the playoffs. anyone who disagrees dont know what they are talkin about.


Everyone who has read what you have said knows you have no idea what you are talking about.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Everyone who has read what you have said knows you have no idea what you are talking about.


 :rofl:


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## NetsFan (Aug 9, 2005)

> Originally Posted by bball2223
> Everyone who has read what you have said knows you have no idea what you are talking about.


 :rofl:


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Tmac said he thought the finals were rigged. LOL.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Drewbs said:


> Tmac said he thought the finals were rigged. LOL.



the thread contains a link to the comments...

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=292849


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

wow...you guys are daft. the mavs never used defense to beat the spurs...they simply outscored them, and were beneficiaries of several Dirk calls.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

duncan2k5 said:


> wow...you guys are daft. the mavs never used defense to beat the spurs...they simply outscored them, and were beneficiaries of several Dirk calls.


and the heat were the beneficiaries of several Wade calls.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> I guarantee a Game 7 win for the spurs and the cavs. the cavs were 1 rebound from winning the series, and The King (to which i am a witness) will not let anyone else take rule over this series. and we all know manu...he will NOT let the spurs lose at home. ive BEEN saying from the beginning it will be spurs and cavs in the finals, and im sticking to it. ive been indifferent to the Mavs...now i HATE them. and ive always hated detroit's flopping-***-team. its one thing when ppl say manu flops, because he doesn't have a "tough guy" reputation. but for a team that are supposed to be so physical and intimidating...detroit is pretty soft and floppy. thats all


:rofl: This will never get old.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Hehe So true :rotf:


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

hahaha bump....wheres the mamba hater at?


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## jumpkid (Oct 7, 2006)

Wade and Bron are cool players to watch but i believe Dwade would just be an ordinary role player in the late 80's and early 90's era..


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

jumpkid said:


> Wade and Bron are cool players to watch but i believe Dwade would just be an ordinary role player in the late 80's and early 90's era..


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)




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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Brandname said:


>


:lol: That sir just made my evening..


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Brandname said:


>


:lol:


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

D Wade is the bomb dirk aint s--- steve nash aint s---d wade ball they a-------out any day d wade 4 MVP baby stop hatin on the man all the heart all the passion you will ever find is that man you want heart,passion,desire& and a balla iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttttssssssssssssssssss DWYANE WADE #3 fo sure THE FUTURE OF THE NBA AND THATS THE TRUTH D WADE KEEP DOING YOUR THANG LETS GO HEAT LETS GO HEAT LETS GO HEAT 2008 NBA CHAMPIONS .


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

liekomgj4ck said:


> D Wade is the bomb dirk aint s--- steve nash aint s---d wade ball they a-------out any day d wade 4 MVP baby stop hatin on the man all the heart all the passion you will ever find is that man you want heart,passion,desire& and a balla iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttttssssssssssssssssss DWYANE WADE #3 fo sure THE FUTURE OF THE NBA AND THATS THE TRUTH D WADE KEEP DOING YOUR THANG LETS GO HEAT LETS GO HEAT LETS GO HEAT 2008 NBA CHAMPIONS .


You must be a popular poster on youtube.


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