# Keith Van Horn..



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

When I saw the "Where's the Heart" thread, I thought it was about KVH, alas it wasn't.. So I post here..

Was there ever a more heartless player in the history of the NBA, than Keith Van Horn?

I honestly can't think of anyone.

-Tim


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> When I saw the "Where's the Heart" thread, I thought it was about KVH, alas it wasn't.. So I post here..
> 
> Was there ever a more heartless player in the history of the NBA, than Keith Van Horn?
> ...



His #'s dropped in the playoffs last year as things got important. The guy has the talent, but that seems to be it. Now you guys have to deal with it. I like the guy but, geez act like you want it. Get a T, something.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Keith Van Horn..*



> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> His #'s dropped in the playoffs last year as things got important. The guy has the talent, but that seems to be it. Now you guys have to deal with it. I like the guys but geez...act like you want it...get a T, something.


Exactly. He had flashes during the regular season, showing what he could do in the post, how he could finish on the break, how he would call for the ball. But then when it comes to post season, he doesn't want the ball, when he gets it he's trying to get it out of his hands.

To think New Jersey snookered us as bad as they did, is amazing. Sad thing is, I don't think we can trick anyone to take him. 

-Tim


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Keith Van Horn..*



> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly. He had flashes during the regular season, showing what he could do in the post, how he could finish on the break, how he would call for the ball. But then when it comes to post season, he doesn't want the ball, when he gets it he's trying to get it out of his hands.
> ...


UTAH would always take him i'm sure:yes: He may even play better for them...look what they did for Harpring.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

is a choke artist


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## 7M3 (Aug 5, 2002)

I would hardly say NJ "took" Philly. There isn't a worse player in these league than Dikembe Mutumbo. Atleast Keith gives you SOMETHING, if inconsistantly.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

his biggest mistake was being drafted 2nd behind duncan the year he came out(not his fault),he's too much of a tweener to be a special player but he does have talent.he's a good rebounder and an above average defender and when givin an oppurtunity to score he can put up some numbers there also.lets be honest about the sixers, its allen iverson 1st,2nd and 3rd there.everything runs through and ends with him.how is van horn suppsosed to be any kind of a threat when he is constantly on the weak side and iverson has the ball?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> his biggest mistake was being drafted 2nd behind duncan the year he came out(not his fault),he's too much of a tweener to be a special player but he does have talent.he's a good rebounder and an above average defender and when givin an oppurtunity to score he can put up some numbers there also.lets be honest about the sixers, its allen iverson 1st,2nd and 3rd there.everything runs through and ends with him.how is van horn suppsosed to be any kind of a threat when he is constantly on the weak side and iverson has the ball?


Well rainman I dont know if you have watched the Sixers this postseason Allen has been looking to get the ball to everyone. I live here in Philly and was at the 1st game here. Watched the game last night. He didnt and hasnt wanted the ball. he did the same thing in NJ last year so sorry rainmain this excuse doesnt work. He has built himself a reputation of being a choke artist and playoff magician. Why because he disappears


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Keith Van Horn..*



> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> His #'s dropped in the playoffs last year as things got important. The guy has the talent, but that seems to be it. Now you guys have to deal with it. I like the guy but, geez act like you want it. Get a T, something.


:laugh: I agree and I knew he would do his usual disappearing act come playoff time. Kenny Thomas, tyrone hill, and Skinner along with Coleman were the big men out there with no quit.(I never thought I'd see the day where I would say that Coleman had such heart!!)


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Well rainman I dont know if you have watched the Sixers this postseason Allen has been looking to get the ball to everyone. I live here in Philly and was at the 1st game here. Watched the game last night. He didnt and hasnt wanted the ball. he did the same thing in NJ last year so sorry rainmain this excuse doesnt work. He has built himself a reputation of being a choke artist and playoff magician. Why because he disappears


he actually played good enough last year to help get the nets to the finals,the lakers just outclassed them there.i admit he has been a dissapointment,i think he needs to get out west some where,but lets not get carried away with iverson's passing,he isnt a natural distributor and a lot of times when he does look for guys his passes are illadvised.he certainly isnt looking for kvh out there.read into that whatever you like.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>7M3</b>!
> I would hardly say NJ "took" Philly. There isn't a worse player in these league than Dikembe Mutumbo. Atleast Keith gives you SOMETHING, if inconsistantly.


Mutombo doesn't get PT in NJ, but if he did I'm positive he'd have more than 2 points, especially against Detroit. Hey, there's a big difference between Deke and Keith, Deke wants the ball, Keith doesn't.

You don't get the ball if you don't call for it, and let's face it.. Van Horn didn't demand the ball. Sure Iverson shot 33 shots, but for Van Horn to put up four shots in 45 minutes is some jokes and jokes and jokes. Not to mention the fact that a lot of times when he touched the ball he threw it right into the double team, and went and gets stupid fouls.

I've been watching KVH all year, and the foul problem has been aggravating. Because it's all having to do with fundamentals, if someone's posting you up, why bail out and reach in?

:sigh:

For some reason I expected different out of the guy this offseason, especially after his article in SLAM. And yes he was different, he came back worse than before.

Well let me go to my favorite quote from the article, and actually it's the last part I read of it, since it angered me so greatly. Let's see what you who haven't read it think: 

_"Coach Brown really started to focus on giving me the ball in the post more often, giving me the ball around the basket and really focusing on playing inside so I can use my legs to my advantage," KVH explains. "I'm bigger than most threes and I'm able to take more shots that way. *This team needed me to shoot more*. The team-oriented offense we played [in Jersey] didn't really feature any one offensive player, and I had to switch my mentality here. *Now I'm focusing on being the scorer I was in my first couple of years, and the understanding that for this team to win I have to shoot the ball*."_

All I have to say is: Two points is Two Points.

-Tim


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> 
> 
> he actually played good enough last year to help get the nets to the finals,the lakers just outclassed them there.i admit he has been a dissapointment,i think he needs to get out west some where,but lets not get carried away with iverson's passing,he isnt a natural distributor and a lot of times when he does look for guys his passes are illadvised.he certainly isnt looking for kvh out there.read into that whatever you like.


What do you mean he doesn't look for KVH? Whenever Van Horn gets the ball, he usually travels or passes it back. He could easily of been a 20 PPG scorer in the regular season with all the touches he got, but he was SCARED. The bad thing? He was so scared in the playoffs, he pretty much disappeared in the Pistons series. Did you watch every Sixers game this year?????????? Also, he travels almost every time, he fakes and drives to the basket. He's just lucky it's not called every time he commits a travel.


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## digital jello (Jan 10, 2003)

Yeah, the guy gets iffy come playoff time, but he's still a solid player. Weren't his numbers 16-7 or something around there? That's not bad at all...

What I'm saying is that Keith has it, he just doesn't know it. He's too much of a perfectionist for his own good. Notice when the Sixers got him going early (usually with points in the post), he had a good game. If he misses some early ones, he loses confidence and either doesn't take as many shots or misses because his mind isn't in the game.

I didn't see this "heartless" talk when he had 18 and 18 to close out New Orleans. 

He shouldn't have been the 2nd pick, that's for sure, but he is 6'10" and has the ability to knock the 3 and post. That's not something very common in the East. I am a KVH fan, and I just hate it when he's the goat all of the time. I was very disappointed in the way the Nets used him after their Finals loss last year. Kenyon Martin was out of line going to the media like that. He's inconsistent, yes. Heartless, no. He's just not "clutch," much like some other players in the league. 

I think he's a good fit in Philly. If he keeps his head up and doesn't listen to this garbage about him not "loving the game" or some other useless shot at his performance, he'll be fine. Larry Brown seems to like him. 

But hey, they could always trade him for Sprewell, right?


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## digital jello (Jan 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> Was there ever a more heartless player in the history of the NBA, than Keith Van Horn?
> 
> I honestly can't think of anyone.
> ...


Are you kidding me? Please.

Look at my above post. He's inconsistent, but not heartless. Heartless is a guy like Shawn Kemp or Vin Baker or Michael Olowokandi. Guys that have the potential but are too lazy to make themselves better. Keith tries. Get off him, man.


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## JaK (Aug 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: Keith Van Horn..*



> Originally posted by <b>digital jello</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me? Please.
> ...



I agree... He's passive at times but definately not heartless... If asked, I think he could shoulder a team when asked or relied upon to... 

Another guy I would add to that list is Kenny Anderson... Amazing talent but just a lazy azz... He so content to just play... And to think, I use to idolize KA when he was at GT...


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>digital jello</b>!
> Yeah, the guy gets iffy come playoff time, but he's still a solid player. Weren't his numbers 16-7 or something around there? That's not bad at all...
> 
> What I'm saying is that Keith has it, he just doesn't know it. He's too much of a perfectionist for his own good. Notice when the Sixers got him going early (usually with points in the post), he had a good game. If he misses some early ones, he loses confidence and either doesn't take as many shots or misses because his mind isn't in the game.
> ...


I'm sorry, but I'm not babying a guy who's been in the league as long as he did who plays like he does when the pressure comes up. 

The news is out, the way to neutralize KVH is to be physical with him early, and he's done, for the entire game. He doesn't like contact. And really he can also be neutralized if the guy defending him gets in his ear early. I don't think he's a pefectionalist, I think the guy has a great confidence problem, because a perfectionist continues to work, unlike what he did on the offensive end last night.

Sure, it was great he had the 18-18 game against the Hornets, but in the playoffs you don't live off of one game, if you do you go on early vacation. For him to be brought in to be the second scorer, and be the fifth highest scorer on average in the series, is a maddening.

I mean, if the guy doesn't know how talented he is, why did he accept that big contract? He's a guy who should be averaging around 16-18 a game, but instead come post season he's a lot quieter.

And if you think Larry Brown likes him, uh.. you might be mistaken, but who knows, I could be as well.

To say he's not clutch, is an overstatement, that's like saying Roseanne Arnold isn't pretty, we pretty much figured that by the look of things.

-Tim


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## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

*KVH*

All I know is when KVN plays well ther Sizers are tough to beat. Detroit is not stupid, they know that AI will get his points and if they can hold KVH the game his theirs for the taking.

Is problem through the series was that he was always in foul 
trouble and couldn't get going. But I also blame the sizers for not getting him some easy shots so he can get going.


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## digital jello (Jan 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> I mean, if the guy doesn't know how talented he is, why did he accept that big contract?


Hmmm, I wonder why. 

"Here's a ****load of money for you to play basketball. We hope you do well." :makeadeal:

Who would turn down something like that? Poor excuse.

I'm tired of sticking up for him. :banghead:

I'm just happy you're not the GM of Philly, or we'd be in a lot of trouble. :laugh:


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>digital jello</b>!
> 
> 
> Hmmm, I wonder why.
> ...


No, you missed the point. The point is, he knows how good he is. Why? Because he's shown it throughout his career, except when pressure comes on, because play is more physical. I'm not just saying it to fit in, I'm saying it because it's true. And on every team's scouting report on the Sixers, it tells them to get into Van Horn's head early, and he'll be neutralized.

Second, I never made an excuse, read the post again, please.. find an excuse.

Now read the excerpt from Slam where he acknowledged he has to score for the team to win, yet he doesn't shoot. And after so many passed up opportunities, other players on the team started looking elsewhere when passing the ball. And can you honestly blame them? It's one of the bigger games of his career, and he doesn't shoot.. there's only so much defending you can do to the guy. I'll admit he did a decent job cleaning the boards, but he's supposed to be the number two guy, he didn't play that way.

And hey, we're out of the playoffs, it's not like we're not in trouble right now, with no first round pick and getting ready to be hit by the luxury tax. So I don't know how much more trouble we would be in, if I was GM.

-Tim


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Keith Van Horn..*



> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: I agree and I knew he would do his usual disappearing act come playoff time. Kenny Thomas, tyrone hill, and Skinner along with Coleman were the big men out there with no quit.(I never thought I'd see the day where I would say that Coleman had such heart!!)


If DC would of had that Heart when he came into the league...who knows how great he could have been. To be fair KVH got worse when Thomas got there. It may have hurt his confidence. That being said...BUCK UP young man and ACT LIKE YOU'VE BEEN THERE!!!:yes:


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## RangerC (Sep 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Well rainman I dont know if you have watched the Sixers this postseason Allen has been looking to get the ball to everyone. I live here in Philly and was at the 1st game here. Watched the game last night. He didnt and hasnt wanted the ball. he did the same thing in NJ last year so sorry rainmain this excuse doesnt work. He has built himself a reputation of being a choke artist and playoff magician. Why because he disappears


Actually, Van Horn, while his usual inconsistant self, came up BIG in the playoffs at times last season - 25+ points in Game 5 of the 1st round and hit big shots in Game 4 and Game 6 against the Celtics. He SUCKED against Detroit (except for some nice board work) but at least he didn't miss 2 game-clinching FT and go 5-25 in a 1 point loss - hard to blame him for the Sixers' loss.


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## (-) 0 † § I-I () † (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RangerC</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, Van Horn, while his usual inconsistant self, came up BIG in the playoffs at times last season - 25+ points in Game 5 of the 1st round and hit big shots in Game 4 and Game 6 against the Celtics. He SUCKED against Detroit (except for some nice board work) but at least he didn't miss 2 game-clinching FT and go 5-25 in a 1 point loss - hard to blame him for the Sixers' loss.


Last season..... thats the past ,I want to see it on the sixers, then I will believe. The 18 and 18 game didnt do t for me, that was one game, he didnt even show up this entire series, it was pitiful. He got rebounds that was absolutely the extent of it.

2 game clinching free throws, are you speaking of Tim Duncan because he did the same thing. 5 of 25, well hge also had 9 assists. This series was absolutely not Allen Iversons fault for losing, he gives whatever he has, the entire time, and he doesnt get in foul trouble :upset:


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RangerC</b>!
> but at least he didn't miss 2 game-clinching FT and go 5-25 in a 1 point loss - hard to blame him for the Sixers' loss.


Tell me which is better:

To have tried and failed, or to have failed to try?

-Tim


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RangerC</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, Van Horn, while his usual inconsistant self, came up BIG in the playoffs at times last season - 25+ points in Game 5 of the 1st round and hit big shots in Game 4 and Game 6 against the Celtics. He SUCKED against Detroit (except for some nice board work) but at least he didn't miss 2 game-clinching FT and go 5-25 in a 1 point loss - hard to blame him for the Sixers' loss.


This statement holds no weight. It would have been different if this was the first time, but this is the 2nd time hes done it, in his career to more or less solidify his affinity to not show up in important games. Also Rainman it does not matter if Allen Iverson is a natural distributor or not. The fact remains is that he was looking for the open man all season long and especially after the All-Star break, I have been to about 20 Sixers games this season so I know what I am talking about when I made my comment on Van Horn. I agree with Philly Phanatic as well. At least try.


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