# Fri 26th through Mon 6th - Long may the streaking continue



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Toronto Raptors
6-9, 
3rd in the Atlantic Conference, 
9th Eastern Conference.

Win Streak = 4

*November*


Fri 26	* @ Boston*, 7:30pm TSN2 FAN590
 Sun 28 vs *Atlanta*, 1:00pm Sportsnet FAN590

*December* 


Wed 01 vs *Washington*, 7:00pmSportsnet FAN590
 Fri 03 vs *Oklahoma City*, 7:00pm TSN2 FAN590
 Sun 05 vs *New York*, 1:00pm Sportsnet FAN590
 Mon 06 *@ Indiana*, 7:00pm Sportsnet One FAN590


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Raps are hot right now so you have to ride that until the trend changes. So I am going 4-2.

BOS probably pays us back for last game, ATL is not playing great ball and I think we have a good shot at home. Who knows what those other four teams will bring on those nights. So is we beat ATL I think we can go 4-2.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm thinking 3-3 or 2-4. Atlanta owned us in the past but with our improved athleticism we should match up much better this time around. Boston will probably blow us out and chances are OKC will too. I just don't like the idea of having Jose trying to guard Russell Westbrook and John Wall. Wizards and OKC's front court could also give us problems since Jeff Green and Blatche all have the footspeed to keep up with Bargnani.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I'll go 2-4. OKC, BOS, ATL are all vastly superior teams and those Knicks are red hot right now. 

Washington started with Hinrich, Arenas and Wall on the floor last night and unsurprisingly lost. I hope they continue that crazy line up for a while. 

I hope DD can find his scoring rhythm again during this stint. It would be nice for him to find some consistency.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

these are all winnable games.. boston would probably pay us back but they're still missing rondo. raps have too many athletes and boston tends to struggle with athletic teams during the regular season.

i think i'll be conservative and keep my expectations low though. yeah we're on a roll but the team still isn't that good. i really like the way weems, amir, barbosa, bargs have been playing, and if DD gets his shot going this team can hang with the best teams in the league. i think expecting this team to make the playoffs is still way too much. it's certainly possible with the east being so weak, but this team still has a lot of issues it needs to address.

all these games are winnable. it's a question of whether this young team has the consistency to play their A game night in and night out. it's possible to get 2-4 wins from atlanta/washington/new york/indiana.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The thing is, this team plays *hard*. Every night, even on back to backs. This has not happened before.

That alone in the nba can win you 45+ games easily. We saw it with teams like MEM and MIL and CHA and CHI in the past. Plus we have a good blend of youth and experience. 

With 67 games left it becomes possible that this team goes 29-38 with a little luck and all of a sudden we are at 35 wins which could squeak out the final seed in the East. Which would knock us down to 15 in the draft.

That would leave us pretty dependent on the development of DD, Bayless, Weems, Amir, Bargs, Davis unless we can get some extra late round firsts or multiple second round picks for guys like Peja, Kleiza, Evans.

These next 6 games could tell us a lot about the rest of the season. We will be 21 games in and seen how we play against both good and bad teams when we were struggling and when we were playing well.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

If the team beats Boston on the road, I think we may have something brewing for this season. I know that we as fans should be considering this team a rebuild project, but the pieces are there to make a real shot at being a top 6 team in the East.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> The thing is, this team plays *hard*. Every night, even on back to backs. This has not happened before.
> 
> That alone in the nba can win you 45+ games easily. We saw it with teams like MEM and MIL and CHA and CHI in the past. Plus we have a good blend of youth and experience.
> 
> ...


Really, if thats what we're looking to build on, Im alright with it. I mean, Bargnani is slowly turning the corner, DD and Weems add that athletic dimension that we havent had for a while and coupled with Barbosa and Bayless off the bench (like Triano has said in interviews), the team will always be playing with an element of speed. 

Like you said, this team is playing hard and given the coaching staff, I think the foundation is pretty good. The key for the future will be to find that rebounding/defensive big to compliment Bargnani for the next 10 years. And really, that can be found fairly easily imo (whether via draft or trade).


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

well, there goes Reggie Evans. He broke his foot tonight and will probably be out for a while if not the rest of the season. I guess it's Amir/Ed Davis time.

With Evans out I guess Jay can have Kleiza come off the bench playing the 4 position and use Peja as the 3. Dorsey will get some burn at the 5 until Ed Davis comes back.

Sucks to lose Reggie but it gives us an opportunity to play our young guys. With the type of money we're paying Amir he should get an opportunity to show us whether he can be a starter and stay on the court.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Well this might show us just what Reggie has meant to the club so far. Will the Raps still play hard every night? Will they outrebound opponents like they have been doing? Amir is playing well, but how many minutes can we rely on him for.

The loss was predictable, and in fact most of us did predict a blowout loss, but the Raps fought back there for a while. More disturbing is the lack of production from DD and Weems. Weems has not had the same energy the last two games. Sonny has not been himself but he did hold Pierce to almost nothing in the first half which may have sucked his energy. DD is going to take a while, if he even has that next level in his game. Kleiza put up points but was underwhelming to me. He still needs to stick to spot up shooting. As soon as he tries to do more its a TO.

Peja continues to shoot it well. Jose and Barbosa also playing well.

The layups and dunks the C's were getting showed that our D is still not close to being solid yet, but a vet club with good passing will do that to a young club.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Sonny and DD were horrible. The effort was there, the talent wasn't. Weems went scoreless, got blocked like 4 times. Jose continues his stellar play to start the season, sending out Jarrett Jack seems like a great deal right now. Peja is a surprise, I didn't think he still had points left in him. I'm glad he's not just rotting on our bench, he's a legend in the game as far as I'm concerned, one of the best shooters of all time. 

Shaq and Glen Davis enjoyed our front court last night :laugh:


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Peja has surprised me as well. I expected him to be bought out but he looks to have something left in the tank. Getting good lift on his J so his legs must still be strong and that is the foundation of his shot. Not sure how many minutes he could realistically play but I would give him Kleiza's PT for sure.
Jose has really stepped it up recently. His D and key steals have been a surprise. I think he is such an emotional player that the fans turning on him and losing the starting spot depressed him and held him down. He looks like a new man with Jack traded and the team clearly his to run again.

Shaq/KG/Baby/Erden all feasted on the Raps frontline. When Shaq has any kind of bounce in a game he is still nearly unstoppable. He just doesn't have that very often these days as it looks like his base is very weak the last couple of years. Probably has some arthritis or other issues after 19 years in the league and all the long playoff runs. He carries a lot of weight around.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

horrible 3rd quarter.. can't expect to win a game with a guarter like that. the team seems to have lost its rhythm. and i miss all the rebounds that we could have gotten with evans on the floor. i want the raps to develop the young players but reggie evans kind of gave this team a kind of intensity that the young guys feed off of. they need to find that intensity within themselves without him.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

This is what I was afraid of. It is only 1 game and Atlanta is a good team but the Raps did not play hard, did not rebound well, and did not even score well. It was a big Sunday crowd, Atlanta had played the day before, in a close game i think, and they put in a stinker. 

Dorsey is no Evans in terms of rebounding. He has most of the physical tools but not the motor or the same quicks it seems. And the fact is we are not just going to find another Evans in EdDavis or anyone else. Reggie has a rare talent for getting to the ball. We underrate how difficult it is to get 10+ boards and Reggie is well above that rate.

Weems and Bargs started well but faded. Weems was driving and dishing for 4 assists in the game and this part of his game is growing. He has also developed that nice floater this year. And he was getting into people defensively.

DD on the other hand is not developing any kind of game. He put up some stats in garbage time but really did nothing otherwise.

Peja, we now know why NO wanted him out. He can't stay healthy anymore. He has barely played and his knee was swelling up? Not good.

Calderon and Bayless were cold. 

Hawks should have been a decent matchup for us physically. No big advantage inside. They are that little bit better at most positions and have played together for a while but that should not be worth 20+ points.

Very disappointed with the effort this game.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I thought Dorsey did well early on. He had 2-3 tap outs in the first quarter and gave us 2nd shot opportunities and did an alright job on the defensive end. The problem is he is even worse than Evans in terms of offense (didn't know that was possible). He has absolutely no touch inside and can't make anything other than dunks.

As for DeRozan I think it's time for him to be benched. I don't know if I like the idea of starting Barbosa next to Calderon but either Barbosa or Kleiza should be starting next to Weems. Speaking of Weems I think teams are starting to pay attention to him and that's why he hasn't been as effective as of late. Weems is still ineffective outside 18 feet and he doesn't drive as often as he needs to. Perhaps it has something to do with his inconsistent jump shot because when it's not falling his defender tend to stay back when guarding him. I've said it before that Weems/DeRozan is not an ideal pairing because their games are too similar. You need to pair them with either Barbosa or Kleiza to spread the floor.

As for Bargs I think he is on the right track to becoming an allstar caliber *offensive* player. Either Leo or Devlin mentioned today that the Raptors do a poor job getting Bargs consistent touches. When that happens Bargs tend to be too anxious when he finally gets the ball and that's when turnover happens. JT should get Bargs as many touches as Bosh got last year because the Raptors are better off with Bargs taking a shot than most of their other players.

Lastly on the general direction of the team. I think in about 5-10 more games it would become obvious that we won't contend for a playoff spot this year. When that time comes I think it is time for BC to make some bald moves to clear cap space and acquire younger talent. Despite moving Jack BC should continue to look for possible suitors for Calderon. Jose has played well recently and his stock should be higher than what it was before. BC should try to capitalize and not wait for an injury to strike like it did to Reggie. Barbosa would be another guy that many contending teams can use. He's an ideal sixth man that gives you instant offense. We all saw what Jamal Crawford does for the Hawks or Shannon Brown for the Lakers or Jason Terry for the Mavs. Barbosa can be that guy for a lot of teams.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

If we trade Jose, Barbosa, and potentially Reggie for youth or picks that would be going all in on the tank for this season and maybe another year or two. Not sure BC has the stones to even suggest that before his new contract comes in.
And just imagine how bad the attendance might be from Jan-Apr. Could get ugly.

Can we really have so many young players without the respected veteran leader that can still play at a high level. Bayless and DD are really projects at this point. Ed has not even played. The next young piece has to be legit from the start.

The difference makers this year have been Barbosa and Reggie, along with the emergence of Bargs and Weems. If we give those vets up it will make it hard to replace them in the medium term. Its taken BC forever to find that kind of player for us.

I think what worries me most about moving these guys is that we could be hanging our young guys out for a 17 win season and maybe ruining them in the process. We desperately need a top 3 pick to hopefully get a star that supercharges the rebuild effort and generates excitement, but we run the risk of having a very, very young team with too many projects that develops a losing culture. Then we become the Clips.

What a horrible spot BC has put us in. We would kill to be in the same spot as when he took over.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I don't think tanking is a choice when the alternative is a 25 win team instead of a 15-20 win team. This team might be going down with or without our veterans and it's up to the GM to shorten the downtime as much as possible. Whether fans like it or not we're looking at a 2-3 year rebuilding process. Anything less will just result in another mediocre team with no hope of a deep playoff run.

We need a few lottery picks to turn this around. I hope we can get Irving in the draft. We need a dynamic point guard to build around. If we only drafted Brandon Jennings instead of DeRozan our team would be in a much better situation now.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i'm going to be a little more patient with DD. bargs was more disappointing and people were still quick to defend him. i think DD is fine. he had a few bad games in a row, but when you're a young player you may struggle with inconsistency. and while he's playing, there are reports that he's playing with a strained hamstring. that may explain the lack of aggressiveness in these games.

i still think DD and weems are a great duo together. yeah it would seem their games are not the ideal fit as both are much better slashers than they are shooting from long range, but it's the chemistry between the two. i think the fact they make each other play better outweighs the fact that kleiza/barbosa has more of an outside shot. the winning streak was fun to watch and it started with these two. now the raps are kind of "back where they belong"-- losing games, i think it's easy to scrap whatever success we had and find something new. but i for one would like to give DD/weems more patience than that.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Even during that winning streak DeRozan was less than stellar. He was shooting 31% from the field and averaging less than 8 points a game. You take the Houston game out where he scored 15 the rest are single digit games. He might look better than he actually is because of the highlight reel plays but if you look at his game logs he really has only played 6-7 decent games this year.

I for one think a Bayless/Barbosa/DeRozan bench would be great because all 3 of them can get out and run. With Jose and Bargs the game is still more halfcourt oriented and DD really has no input in the offense once things settle down.

I don't expect DeRozan to get the same amount of opportunities as Bargnani. Bargnani was the #1 pick and a 7 footer. There aren't that many 7 footers with his potential sitting around in the league. DeRozan on the other hand needs to show us something because athletic wings are dime a dozen and thus far he's closer to a player of Antoine Wright's caliber than he is to a legitimate starting shooting guard in the NBA.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i have to disagree. dude is struggling but even then he is shooting at an acceptable percentage on the season. antoine wright has never shot at a reasonable percentage at any point of his career. DD is also a better talent than antoine wright just in terms of athleticism alone. i think DD has shown enough that I'm willing to have faith in him. his leadership on summer league teams can't be denied and i think he needs to carry that over to this raptors team.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm not saying that he is Antoine Wright, I'm saying that his caliber of play is closer to Wright than to an average starting shooting guard in the NBA. In fact, I can make an argument that DeRozan right now is the worst starting shooting guard in the NBA. He's comparable only to Anthony Parker of the Cavs and Wesley Johnson of the Timberwolves and Keith Bogans of the Bulls. When you're in that category of guys your job isn't safe because it's not hard to find a guy that can duplicate what DeRozan does. I know he's young but he needs to show us something soon because he is producing far less than what is expected of him for the amount of opportunity that he is given.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

It was not that long ago that Antoine Wright would have been considered a prized rookie. At one point in his draft it was very fluid as to who from Granger, Green, Graham, and Wright was going to be a top 5 to top 10 pick. The wings fell late in that draft.

So far I think it is fair to say that Joey Graham had a better first two years than Derozan. He had a better shot, a better body, and could dunk on people. Both are horrible defensively and not great handles.

DD needs to finish this year strong and have a great summer working out.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

And if you look at a guy like Terrence Williams or James Harden, you can make a case that both players have equal or more talent than DeRozan. Neither guys have gotten as much opportunity to succeed as DeRozan. T-Will is in the D-League now because the Nets got Anthony Morrow and Travis Outlaw. You look at a guy like Jerryd Bayless who was drafted 11th 2 years ago and he's already playing for his 3rd team. You look at a guy like Corey Brewer and he's still riding on the T-Wolves bench now that the Wolves have moved on to Wesley Johnson. That is the fate of a NBA swingman who fails to impress his team. 

If DeRozan take a step back this year I don't think he will get the same opportunity next year to prove himself. He might not recognize the urgency to play better but he can't possibly expect to get the same amount of patience and time that teams give to a big man project.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

James Harden looked to have incredible skills coming into that draft. He and Tyreke Evans looked fairly even to me and I was dreaming about the Raps landing either one.

Not sure why the fit is so bad with Harden. He has been getting almost 24mpg and played in virtually every game these first two years. So I would not say his opportunity has been any less than DD. Almost half his shots are from 3pt range which is why his fg% is so low. You rarely hear a word about him these days. Westbrook and Durant must dominate the ball.

Its amazing that only Granger has panned out from that whole group of Granger, Graham, Green, Wright. There did not seem to be that much separation in them pre-draft. Corey Brewer is on his way out of the league I think. And then you have guys like James White Rodney Carney. So many great athletes that just don't find an nba game. Anthony Randolph is another one who could be near the end if D'Antoni can't get anything from him.

And then you get guys plucked from the DLeague by Don Nelson who come in and immediately light it up. It shows how tough drafting is, which is scary for a rebuilding team.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

if corey brewer is on his way out then raps should pick him up. i like his length and his defense. his shot is extremely inconsistent but i love the energy he plays with. i don't believe brewer will have a hard time finding a job in this league.

and for all the talk about joey graham i always felt his couldn't get his package together in games. worst coordination from a supposedly "great" athlete that i've ever seen. but it does seem like he's finding a role for the cavs. he can be a 10/4 guy at the SF position for teams that need a strong athletic wing. i'm happy he's found a niche, hopefully he stays with the cavs for the next couple of years.

i think the season is still early. and DD is averaging 12ppg which isn't shabby at all. he was known as a very raw athlete before the draft anyway so the raps should know he would have his ups and downs in this league. i'll say something about him says he's not joey graham/antoine wright. it's true sg's don't get the patience of a 7 footer but it's only his second season. i have faith he'll improve this year.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Its the mental part of the game that seems to be the biggest issue with DD. He looks lost out there on both ends.

Sonny never had plays called for him in the past but he had the instincts that allowed him to get himself involved in the game and make an impact. That is what caught the coaches eyes. Plus his D is better right now, which also has a lot to do with instincts. That goes to the very makeup of the player and I am not sure it can ever improve enough to make him a great player.

Jury is out on DD for at least another few months but its not looking good right now.

Its easy to forget how good Joey Graham looked for weeks at a time during parts of his 3 seasons here. DD has already played more total minutes in year 1, and more mpg in both year 1 and year 2 than Joey despite not having an nba body or even a solid mid range game.

DD is playing 30mpg this year, which shocks me given how invisible he is for most of those minutes. I agree with feeding him the minutes by the way. We need to know what we have in DeRozan and if he is a core piece or a trade asset. I wanted Joey to get those kind of minutes early but he never cracked 20. Losing seasons are ideal for this type of evaluation.

Bringing in a Cory Brewer is pointless. We already have 3 project wings in Sonny, DD, and JWright. Why would we play Brewer over any of those guys right now. We can't even find minutes for Wright now and he has shown some promise in limited minutes.

If we bring in a young wing he has to have star potential, not bench player potential. Our whole team is bench talent right now.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

DD came out with great energy tonight and was attacking from the very first possession. ed davis had a great debut and his teammates fed off his energy. the entire team looked good and everybody played hard as the raptors got another team win.

bargs had a stretch where he looked unstoppable on offense. raptors had fun against poor wizard D tonight.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Bargnani. DeMar. Jerryd. Ed. 

Those guys were great tonight. The whole team played well, but these guys shone. Bargnani with 8 boards, has anyone else noticed he's looking for it more since Reggie went down? ... DeMar was aggressive and all he needs now is a few consistent games to prove himself. Jerryd Bayless is looking like a little gem, he's always had the talent, he just never got a chance to really showcase it. Anyone catch his move on John Wall? SLICK. 

Now to Davis. One game into his NBA career and possibly my favourite Raptor already. He threw down some dunks. He blocked a couple shots, including a huge 'IN YO FACE' block on John Wall, it was crazy. People had been talking about him looking skinny, dude doesn't look all that skinny to me. Reminded me of young Jermaine O'Neal, anyone else? ... 

We might have a terrible record come the end of the year, but I actually prefer this team to many of the past years. 

Oh and who misses Chris Bosh? Not me. We have exactly the same record as this time last year. BOOM.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The whole team looked like superstars tonight. How often do you see almost 10 guys playing 20mpg each? Everyone we played dominated the Wiz, although Kleiza still looks blah to me. Raps rarely missed and when they did they got 14 O rebounds and 27 FTAs. Fun game for the home crowd and that's important to keep fans positive in a losing season. Why waste a blowout effort on the road.

DD was at his best this game. Much more aggressive. Weems was back to his old self and looking good.

I do love watching that McGee kid play though. I remember his youtube clips pre-draft. He is like a supercharged Tyson Chandler.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

McGee had a huge throw down. Ed matched up well with him, for a rookie he didn't get pushed around much, if at all. 

Who else noticed his leadership on D? He was constantly talking and getting other guys into position, if he keeps that up it could be huge, very Tim Duncan-esque.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Ya gotta believe.

Great game against a solid OKC team. 

Jose was fantastic at both ends. His D was awesome this game and he connected on more alleyoops than I remember seeing before. Amir had a couple of wicked slams that looked more like Nash to Amare than Jose to Amir. Amir even showed a couple of good one on one moves to add to his spot up J.

Bargs with a big 26/12 although he struggled at some key times when OKC threw some weird D at him.

DD and Weems continue to build on-court chemistry and give us the kind of speed and athleticism we have been missing so long. Raps are even handling PnR D much better this year. And the bigs are offering much more support when there is penetration into the lane.

Barbosa is a force when he is on his game. 

Ed Davis is looking pretty darn good his first couple of games. Looks like a nice pick. Bayless continues to fit in well.

This team is definitely better than last year. Big game against the knicks sunday. They are playing better too.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

Funny how the majority of raps "fans" thought there was no way in hell the Raptors would be competitive. I hope you are ashamed of yourselves for not even knowing your own team.

Go Raps!


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Wow that one loss to TOR must have hit you hard. Did your self esteem take a beating that day? Did you go to your little office the next day feeling all crappy about yourself, your team, and your city? Did you start to doubt your mighty Celtics had another playoff run in them? Don't feel guilty. It's only natural to see a young up and coming team like the Raps, from a far more attractive and interesting city no less, and start to feel a little insecure about everything.
Just remember, the bandwagon still has plenty of room for new Raptor fans today but as the Bargnani era of the nba (as it will later be known) begins to dominate the league you may find yourself without a seat and running behind us on the parade route.

You may want to start looking for a new avy and sig while you distance yourself from that rickety old franchise you currently support and start planning for the inevitable Raptor dominance.

Thanks for stopping by. We welcome converts from all franchises.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Nice win last night. When Amir stays off foul trouble he's a better big man than people give him credit for. If he can at least average 25+ min a night his contract is more than worth it. Barbosa is great for us off the bench, playing like someone who's working for a contract. Calderon is finally getting back to where he was a few years ago before we gave him that contract, hopefully his lower body holds up.

If the Raptors are around .500 by Feb then Bargnani should be on the allstar team. He still go on cold stretches and his rebounding is still weak most of the time but overall his game is a lot more consistent than years past. Once he figures out how to get to the foul line on a consistent basis he should be amongst the scoring leaders for C/PF.

The next 2 games are all winnable for us. I predicted 2-4 or 3-3 for this week and it looks like we'll at least be 3-3.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Bargs is definitely playing at an all star level lately. I said he was not worthy of a legitimate vote earlier, and I think that was true at the time, but today you could give him a vote and not have it be a complete homer move. Hopefully he can keep it up.

All we can really ask for from Bargs is efficient scoring and a solid effort on D and rebounding. He may never be a great rebounder or help defender but just go harder on that end. His scoring is something we need badly.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

jayisthebest88 said:


> Funny how the majority of raps "fans" thought there was no way in hell the Raptors would be competitive. I hope you are ashamed of yourselves for not even knowing your own team.
> 
> Go Raps!


Please compile a list of this 'majority' you speak of?! ... I was aghast at all the predictions that had my team ranked lowest in the East, I didn't see how we couldn't compete for that final seed in the East along with other mediocre teams. 

This is a team on the rise, they will win some guys they shouldn't and they will lose some games they shouldn't (both of which have already happened) ... 

Coming in this forum and baiting like you are Mr Know It All won't fly, maybe your knucklehead antics might go down well in the undereducated Boston forum but we'll tear you apart in here. Remember that.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

As for the game against the Thunder. Calderon was phenomenal, he shut down a red hot Westbrook and still played great offensively. He's back to the best I've ever seen him play, if we land Irving we have to flip Calderon for another piece of the puzzle. 

Bargnani had a really solid game and Amir Johnson commented in his interview he believes Andrea is the franchise player and deserves an All-Star berth. It's great to hear that from his team mates, if they believe in Bargs, then he should and hopefully he can end the season playing as well as he has. What I liked about his game against the Thunder was that he didn't get his points in a 3 minute burst like previous games, he was there throughout slowly piling them up. He was getting his and he knew he could, he wasn't playing off a shooting streak like usually he was playing his type of ball and still got what he wanted. I think he may have arrived at the plateau we all wanted him to get to.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

bargs deserves to be on the all-star team. for all the criticism over the years that he's not a franchise player.. well, neither was bosh. i think at this point bargs has shown to be an as impactful player as bosh is. and i think his value should be even higher than bosh's considering his skillset and the fact that he is a 7 footer. franchise player he may not be but is he an all-star? definitely.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

amir johnson and bayless having huge huge games! loving the level of play from amir. raps need a win though. but they're really carrying the team with their play as andrea is having a rough night.

bargs need to help us with a strong 4th quarter because we need him to play well to win this.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Reality check time I guess. This is what you have to live with when you have this kind of team.

Knicks surprised me though. They looked really, really good in that first Q. The passing was something you see more from a vet team like BOS. Mike D plays a ridiculously tight rotation.

None of the Raps wings had it going today. Weems, DD, Barbosa, Kleiza all terrible. And of course Bargs had an off game. But we still score 99. Amir was just incredible. Showing more and more each game.

D is still a big problem. We give up 94 points in 3 quarters of play, and 'hold' them to 22 in the other. We didn't pressure them anywhere or give them any difficulty. They got every shot they wanted.

Very disappointing game. IND game could expose the exact same sort of problems. Should be interesting to see what Raps team shows up.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> Wow that one loss to TOR must have hit you hard. Did your self esteem take a beating that day? Did you go to your little office the next day feeling all crappy about yourself, your team, and your city? Did you start to doubt your mighty Celtics had another playoff run in them? Don't feel guilty. It's only natural to see a young up and coming team like the Raps, from a far more attractive and interesting city no less, and start to feel a little insecure about everything.
> Just remember, the bandwagon still has plenty of room for new Raptor fans today but as the Bargnani era of the nba (as it will later be known) begins to dominate the league you may find yourself without a seat and running behind us on the parade route.
> 
> You may want to start looking for a new avy and sig while you distance yourself from that rickety old franchise you currently support and start planning for the inevitable Raptor dominance.
> ...





lol wtf? 

calm down buddy


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

Porn_Player said:


> Please compile a list of this 'majority' you speak of?! ... I was aghast at all the predictions that had my team ranked lowest in the East, I didn't see how we couldn't compete for that final seed in the East along with other mediocre teams.
> 
> This is a team on the rise, they will win some guys they shouldn't and they will lose some games they shouldn't (both of which have already happened) ...
> 
> Coming in this forum and baiting like you are Mr Know It All won't fly, maybe your knucklehead antics might go down well in the undereducated Boston forum but we'll tear you apart in here. Remember that.



The majority of Raptors fans had no faith in this team at all. I don't have to make any list, alot of you were predicting 20-28 wins for this team. 

Only reason I posted in here is I found it funny that some raps fans were now saying the team would win 45 games. What a difference one good stretch can make.

Next time I'll try to remember what you said before I post in these forums again Good idea....


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I was one of those fans that predicted 20-28 wins and I still think we'll be around that win total. I don't think that has anything to do with me having faith in this team but rather hoping that we end up with a high lottery pick. If we end up around .500 it would be a surprise but not necessarily good for the franchise.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> amir johnson and bayless having huge huge games! loving the level of play from amir. raps need a win though. but they're really carrying the team with their play as andrea is having a rough night.
> 
> bargs need to help us with a strong 4th quarter because we need him to play well to win this.


Both of those played out of their skin. Amir had his best game as a Raptor. It's a shame the wings didn't turn up and help them out. At the end of the 3rd and to start the 4th, I thought we might be able to push this game close, then Felton, Amar'e and especially Shawne Williams got hot and they streaked away again. 

Bargnani did get it going a little more in the 4th but when the run was over, so was his night. 

Not the best effort from our guys, but we gotta remember these Knicks are red hot right now.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> I was one of those fans that predicted 20-28 wins and I still think we'll be around that win total. I don't think that has anything to do with me having faith in this team but rather hoping that we end up with a high lottery pick. If we end up around .500 it would be a surprise but not necessarily good for the franchise.


Try your best to ignore Jay. His attempt to look smarter than all of us dummies is showing him for somebody who clearly failed his Math class. 

Raptors are currently playing .400% ball, if we keep this pace up we'll have 32/33 wins come the end of the season. Now that's 4/5 more wins than you predicted seifer, what an idiot you are. I mean there are only 82 games in a season and to be out by 4/5 in your prediction is absurd. You're no fan. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. 

Jay knows best. He knows we'll be the most exciting team in the league and come the end of the season, it's PLAYOFFS BABY!

....


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

are we young and exciting? i think so. but are we good enough for the playoffs? doubtful. raps do have some nice players but they need some extra punch to make it. the last 2-3 seeds in the east is wide open which is the only reason raps even have the slightest chance. even then, very unlikely.

bayless' play has been so good lately that triano has been forced to play him, hence playing calderon at sg and barbosa at sf. yes that's right, BARBOSA at sf. this is in part because kleiza has not been effective... not sure what's up but he looks a bit lost out there. his minutes have been way down in recent games. he's a guy who can give us a huge lift at the 3/4 spot if he can get his game going. i mean raps got in pretty close in the 4th quarter vs knicks and were making stops at one point, but kleiza missed 2 easy bunnies which pretty much ended the run. this raptors team is a team and we can't win games with just 2 guys playing well. i hope bargs, weems, kleiza, barbosa can all bounce back strong next game.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i'm not really concerned with the on-again, off-again contributions of sonny, demar and bargnani (at least not as much as other people). in some ways, i totally understand. i think the whole team- especially those three- is going to be inconsistent for awhile yet. i call it the chris bosh hangover. they're still getting used to life without him.

i think it's natural that they put up a good game and then back off... if only because that's sort of how it's always been. as "#2's" their performance was seen more as a bonus than a must. bosh was ridiculously consistent in that sense, and if anyone else ever put up a good game they never themselves expected to repeat it the next night because they didn't have to. it became normal (if not unhealthy) to watch chris do a disproportionate amount of the heavy lifting, in good times and bad. i think the detox is in full effect now.

i kind of expect amir johnson to be totally ineffective tonight, for example. in his subconscious mind, he probably woke up this morning asking himself, "you expect me to do that _again_?" i think bosh was highly underrated in that area. he brought his 8/10 to the court most every night- while the rest of the team either used that to their advantage or, more commonly, as an excuse to back off.

i'm not a patient guy but i understand (and accept) that the detox will take time. say what you will about bosh, and maybe his game _was_ tier 2 level, but his consistency as a leader was absolutely tier 1 imo. in many ways he was the only one to bring it every night- though at times quietly. the culture of the team is undergoing a metamorphosis right now and i'm sure the inconsistency will continue for some time.

but i'm confident things will look brighter on the other side. 

peace


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

ballocks while i do somewhat agree with you, i think bargs truly tries to bring it every night. i'm one of his biggest critics but i think last night had more to do with his shot simply not falling. i think he could have done a better job getting his rhythm back because he was having his way inside, just hitting nothing outside. bargs is definitely our most consistent player right now and while he's not the rebounder that bosh is, i think he's already proven his value to our team. i'm just not missing chris bosh very much and i try as hard as any fan to be patient with our young players. our team is "overachieving" at this point because these guys bring so much heart and hustle. they're playing a brand of basketball i really enjoy.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Rinse and Repeat. This IND game looked almost identical to the NY game and that should put a wrap on any talk of a better than 34 win season. That was my absolute top end for this team pre-season and I predicted a 28 win season. These 2 games were the defining moment of this season to me. These were the type of mid tier teams we had to compete with to have a shot at that 8 seed or even the 7.

We were dominated by two teams that should be very even with us in terms of overall talent and size. The exact same defensive issues in back to back games. I don't even think that Reggie being out is a big factor, unless he was somehow squeezing more effort out of his teammates. 

Unfortunately we are also clearly better than the bottom 3 teams in each conference which is going to put us in, at best, the 7 slot of the draft pre-lottery. Probably worse.

All the wings were horrible again today, and it was Jose/Amir the only ones who brought their games. TOR took 100 shots in this game. Totally got caught up in IND style.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

So we end the six game stint, 2-4.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> Unfortunately we are also clearly better than the bottom 3 teams in each conference which is going to put us in, at best, the 7 slot of the draft pre-lottery. Probably worse.


This is what is really bothering me. I'm enjoying the season. I'm enjoying the development of the young guys. I'm enjoying seeing new players get minutes and do well. 

I am not enjoying being a little better than the worst and a little worst than the best. 

The draft is very top heavy if you ask me, anything outside the Top 6 could be horrible.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> This is what is really bothering me. I'm enjoying the season. I'm enjoying the development of the young guys. I'm enjoying seeing new players get minutes and do well.
> 
> I am not enjoying being a little better than the worst and a little worst than the best.
> 
> The draft is very top heavy if you ask me, anything outside the Top 6 could be horrible.


i rather see the young guys do well and hopefully get lucky with the lottery balls and get a top 6 pick. i don't think the raptors would get a much higher pick even if they tanked, and it's not like the raps have been able to capitalize with their high picks either.


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