# Mario Austin Segment on ESPN



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Right now.. :sigh:


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

I think this is honestly the first time *I* have ever cried in regards to a situation. While Austin obviously isn't a very smart individual, there isn't a doubt in my mind he wasn't manipulated to go overseas. 

No kid in their right mind would turn down a shot at the league to go play in Russia... especially for a small 2 year 1.1 million deal like he received. Also, if Paxson lied to protect an agent, I'd like his head served up on a platter... I'm already really close.

Bill Duffy is an absolute snake. This goes beyond this situation as he has had several similar situations like this, not to this magnitude. Absolutely sick to my stomach. I hope Austin wins his lawsuit and if he doesn't, I'll really feel for the kid.

My time as a Bull fan seems to be coming to a close... I cannot stand and support an organization that is run this way (if true) and spend my hard earned money to support these goons.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

WTF do you say to all of that? The argument over whether a confrence call took place? Mass mayhem. I'd like to say its just a confused kid from a small town, but Paxson's track record doesn't merit a pass. Rack this under inconclusive. Everyones **** stinks.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> WTF do you say to all of that? The argument over whether a confrence call took place? Mass mayhem. I'd like to say its just a confused kid from a small town, but Paxson's track record doesn't merit a pass. Rack this under inconclusive. Everyones **** stinks.


I say that Jerry Krause didn't handle business this way. Mr. Reinsdorf... please remove Paxson and hire the man whom Krause was truly grooming for the job.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

You speak truth Retro:

Why would paxson even give this interview. The fact that it was in front of cameras and not a standard press release is doubly concerning... and the way he attacked Mario as a "liar." I am not a conspiracy theorist but this all smacks of some bizarre coverup. **** the Bulls.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> I think this is honestly the first time *I* have ever cried in regards to a situation. While Austin obviously isn't a very smart individual, there isn't a doubt in my mind he wasn't manipulated to go overseas.
> 
> No kid in their right mind would turn down a shot at the league to go play in Russia... especially for a small 2 year 1.1 million deal like he received. Also, if Paxson lied to protect an agent, I'd like his head served up on a platter... I'm already really close.
> ...


Fill those of us who didn't see the piece in...and welcome to the fire pax club.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I want Pax and Skiles gone...

Our only hope though is that Skiles quits...

Pax isn't going to be fired anytime soon...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> I want Pax and Skiles gone...
> 
> Our only hope though is that Skiles quits...
> ...


What did Skiles do?

Oh...the guard thing, right?


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Retro or someone, 

What are the details on this?

Thanks!


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Fill those of us who didn't see the piece in...and welcome to the fire pax club.


The piece started talking about Austin, how he declared after his sophmore year but went back because he was told he wouldn't be a 1st round pick and then how he came out again after his junior year (and signed with Bill Duffy) after he claims Duffy told him he was a lock for the 1st round.

The gave some background of him living in a trailer in York. He had a draft party at his trailer with his family and friends and then was crushed he went in the 2nd after Duffy told him he was a lock in the 1st. 

Then they spoke about the Moscow CSKA contract (2 years, 1.1 million) and how Mario had a collapsed lung shortly after going to Moscow. Said that he made attempts to contact Duffy numerous times while in the intensive care unit and never could get a response. Had his girlfriend type up a "firing" letter and that is when Duffy finally went to Russia to see him, and all he cared about is why Mario wanted to fire him.

Then talked about him returning to the states and continued discussion about Duffy, with Duffy saying he told Mario about the 2nd round tender contract that all picks are eligible for according to the CBA. 

Mario's new agent pointed this out to him and then told him how he was shocked and very upset that Duffy hadn't told him about it. Then Pax appears and said he had a conference call with Bill, Mario and his mom regarding it. Mario and his mom had no recollection. 

Later in the interview, Mario cries regarding the situation when he hears that Duffy and Pax say in interviews that they told him this. Here is why I actually felt for him and cried... I'm a sucker, but I do believe Mario.

Duffy and CSKA filed lawsuits against Austin for breach of contract and Austin filed a countersuit against Duffy for misrepresentation. Then it just gave some background again on him being at home in his trailer, being cleared to play again and now training in Tampa until his lawsuits are settled.

Good piece... made Duffy and the Bulls organization look very, very bad.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Also of note was that Duffy admitted that he would make 40,000 a year (120,000 total) for singing Austin with CSKA and only 2,000 for signing him with the Bulls.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> You speak truth Retro:
> 
> Why would paxson even give this interview. The fact that it was in front of cameras and not a standard press release is doubly concerning... and the way he attaced Mario as a "liar." I am not a conspiracy theorist but this all smacks of some bizarre coverup. **** the Bulls.


I don't think this can be classified as such. I think this is simply one person lying (or two if you include Pax) and one person who isn't. 

When Bill Duffy said that "he cannot guarantee" someone going in the 1st round, I had a hearty chuckle. Promise picks happen more frequently then we know... just ask Kedrick Brown and Fred Jones. I have no doubts Duffy told Austin he'd be a 1st round pick for sure... because Duffy need to have his quote of players in the draft so he was guaranteed his money.

Nonetheless, Mario shouldn't have let himself be put in that situation. It was obvious from the interview that Mario Austin is not the smartest of guys... in fact, he probably is a mental midget. However, I came away from the interview feeling like he was a very genuine and sincere guy who was a casualty of the process.

It is a sad story all the way around.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> Also of note was that Duffy admitted that he would make 40,000 a year (120,000 total) for singing Austin with CSKA and only 2,000 for signing him with the Bulls.


Yes, I forgot that part. Thanks for point that out.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

As a law student this all makes me cringe. One of the most basic tenents of Contract law is that there is a presumption against signing away your right to earn a living at the injunction stage. If Austin had basic adequate representation he would have a preliminary injunction to play until his suit gets decided. There is such a dictomy between the Vin Bakers/ Lebron James and Austin's situation. Mario is a poster child for what can happen if you have the wrong "handlers".


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> As a law student this all makes me cringe. One of the most basic tennants of Contract law is that you can't sign away your right to earn a living. If Austin had half way decent representation he would have a preliminary injunction to play until his suit gets decided. There is such a dictomy between the Vin Bakers/ Lebron James and Austin's situation. Its almost a poster for what can happen if you dont have the right "handlers".


Right on... LeBron doesn't know how damn good he has it, does he? Or maybe he does... but one thing is certain... he should thank God every damn night for his family and support group.

On a side note, according to that Southtown article, he had to buyout his own CSKA contract and is now signed in the WBA or something. However, I hope he sues Duffy and wins... what a maroon.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

> As a law student this all makes me cringe. One of the most basic tennants of Contract law is that you can't sign away your right to earn a living.


As a Law Student, you should probably know that the word is "tenet", not "tennant".


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> As a Law Student, you should probably know that the word is "tenet", not "tennant".


Sorry Webster. When can we expect the next revision of your dictionary?


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> As a <i>Law Student</i>, you should probably know that the word is "tenet", not "tennant".


As someone who can read and write English, you should probably know that you don't capitalize non-proper words in the middle of a sentence :grinning:


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> As a Law Student, you should probably know that the word is "tenet", not "tennant".


They don't teach that until third year.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Heads up.. It's on again!


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## ogbullzfan (Mar 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> Also of note was that Duffy admitted that he would make 40,000 a year (120,000 total) for singing Austin with CSKA and only 2,000 for signing him with the Bulls.


He was also very defensive and gave a "pr" like response on how he normally does business. Totally shady.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> No kid in their right mind would turn down a shot at the league to go play in Russia... especially for a small 2 year 1.1 million deal like he received.


$550,000 a year is small for a second-round rookie?! You've got to be kidding me.

If Austin was smart, he'd go back to his team in Russia and continue playing for them. He's still young, he'll have his chances to go to camps.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

I think Austin is full of crap. This guy screwed himself and got homesick and did whatever it took to try to wiggle his way out of the deal. 

A criticism of Duffy is that he told Austin he would be a lock in the 1st round? puh-lease...Austin rolled the dice and hoped he would get in the 1st round but he didnt. He got a sweet-*** deal from the Moscow team..2/1.1m. Where in the states would he get that scratch?

Austin has shown me that he belongs on the bulls. He is a mental midget, who wont take responsiblity for his own actions. He would fit in well w/ the other bulls players.

No masked cursing, thanks.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

As a second round draftee, Carlos Boozer signed a contract where he made about 1.29 million over his first 2 years. Had Austin also been able to stick in the NBA he would have had a very similar contract.

I'm not sure who was telling the truth in this situation although I do know that the agent is still the person at fault. He was questioning the intelligence of Austin when in actuallity it was his responsiblity to make sure that Austin understood what his options were.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I watched the whole segment. IMO Austin is full of crap.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> I watched the whole segment. IMO Austin is full of crap.


Can you elaborate?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> As a law student this all makes me cringe. One of the most basic tennants of Contract law is that you can't sign away your right to earn a living.


OT, I agree with everything you say below, but I disagree with your legal conclusion (of course, maybe that's why I quit law school and became an economist). He didn't sign away his right to earn a living... he signed what was by all appearances a pretty lucrative contract. Isn't an even more basic principle of contract law that contracts should be enforced?

He can't contract away his right to earn a living, but he hasn't done that here. He can earn a living by fulfilling his contract to CSKA. Alternatively, there are all kinds of ways to make money that don't involve playing basketball.

I think nullifying a contract on this grounds gets done too much, in part because it's easier than proving stuff like the conflict of interest and agency problems set forth below (which to me, at least, are a bit more solid because they get to the fact that no "meeting of the minds" occured in the first place between Austin ans CSKA).

But like I said, I'm not a big fan of weakening contract rights in the first place 




> If Austin had basic adequate representation he would have a preliminary injunction to play until his suit gets decided. There is such a dictomy between the Vin Bakers/ Lebron James and Austin's situation. Mario is a poster child for what can happen if you have the wrong "handlers".


That much is clear. It's funny this is coming up again, because a lot of the operative facts hit almost 4 months ago: 

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=799945#post799945

The information that's come out since has reinforced my existing beliefs and also (further) tarnished Paxson IMO, because it's pretty clear that he's going to bat for duffy and the "machine" that keeps agents fat and happy by railroading kids like Austin into deals they don't totally understand and don't really want. OK, that's a little unfair, because it's true that if Austin was a little sharper and willing to try, he's be better off with this deal. He'd be making more money, making it basically tax free I bet, and also taking in some great foreign culture. The problem comes because he also has every right not to do that. If he wanted to stay here, he should have, and his agents should have given him advice consistent with that goal. But in this case, serving the client's interest and making money weren't the same thing, and it's pretty clear what side Duffy came down on.

It's also pretty clear what side Paxson and the Bulls came down on, and once again it's the wrong one.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

When I was in Russia 3 months ago I went to a CSKA game and actually spoke to 2 people who work for CSKA. I brought Austin up just to get feedback. Their story made Austin sound like the biggest immature, spoiled, homesick, and maybe manipulated brat. Now I dont know what side Pax or anyone comes down on this, but I do know that CSKA is a world class organization and that youll never hear anyone bash them. It sounds to me like Austin had an over-inflated opionion of himself and couldnt handle being so far away. I say you sign a contract, you honor it. And dont leave a place after a week or so full of excuses. If Austin never plays for us, I wont lose any sleep


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> I say that Jerry Krause didn't handle business this way. Mr. Reinsdorf... please remove Paxson and hire the man whom Krause was truly grooming for the job.


Join the club! ;-)


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> Can you elaborate?


Fact #1
Austin thought he'd be a 1st rounder <i>regardless</i> of what agent Bill Duffy told him

link1 link2 link3 link4 link5 


> Austin is confident he won't have to wait long to hear his name called by NBA commissioner David Stern.
> 
> "I don't know what number, but I think I'm a lottery pick," said Austin, who demonstrated an improved outside shooting touch near the end of MSU's season. "That makes a lot of difference as opposed to last year, when I would have been a second-round pick."


Fact #2
Austin has flirted 2 different times with declaring for the NBA draft, once out of HS and once after his sophomore season at Miss St.

Fact #3
Bill Duffy is a snake (no argument necessary )

Fact #4
Austin knew about the 1 year non-guaranteed tender from the Chicago Bulls
http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0401/28/wmsu01.html


> It's hardly the scenario Austin envisioned when he decided last April to give up his final year of eligibility to enter the NBA draft.
> 
> Under the assumption he was a surefire first-round pick (and thus in line for a guaranteed three-year contract), Austin instead slipped to the seventh pick of the second round by the Chicago Bulls.
> 
> <b>After playing for Chicago's summer-league entry, Austin was offered a one-year deal with no guarantees. </b>Austin, though, said he decided to follow the advice of his agent at the time, Bill Duffy, and check into an offer from a professional team in Russia.


Obviously someone is telling lies in this pissing contest. IMO and again this is JMO, Duffy pushed the CSKA option because it was probably 1) best for the player since CSKA is a good landing spot and 2) it offered Austin the most money.

Why is everyone jumping on Duffy's jock here when all along Austin is saying he declared for the draft to 'take care of his family financially'? C'mon now. Duffy is a snake but to somehow imply that he's withholding Austin from an NBA dream is absolutely ludicrous.

And throw in the fact I have a hard time believing Paxson would flat out lie about a conference call involving Duffy, Austin, and his mother. THe last link I posted reports that Austin knew about the one-year non-guaranteed offer fromt he Bulls.... did Austin somehow forget this happened? Oh yeah, we're dealing with a mental midget who changes his story to fit whatever he feels at the time.

It is easy to villify the agent, the Bulls org, for ruining this kid's chances. BUt when you look at the facts, who exactly pissed away his chances? Sheesh.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Join the club! ;-)


please sign me up for both of your clubs mate


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

It's my tenent that Pax should be removed as tennant.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> please sign me up for both of your clubs mate


And me to yours, please.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> When I was in Russia 3 months ago I went to a CSKA game and actually spoke to 2 people who work for CSKA. I brought Austin up just to get feedback. Their story made Austin sound like the biggest immature, spoiled, homesick, and maybe manipulated brat. Now I dont know what side Pax or anyone comes down on this, but I do know that CSKA is a world class organization and that youll never hear anyone bash them. It sounds to me like Austin had an over-inflated opionion of himself and couldnt handle being so far away. I say you sign a contract, you honor it. And dont leave a place after a week or so full of excuses. If Austin never plays for us, I wont lose any sleep


rlucas, you need to elaborate on this... especially regarding CSKA.

Austin has come out and bashed CSKA, their handling of the lung injury, their mismanagement monetarily, ties to organized crime and mob intimidation, etc, etc. It was featured in a Greg Couch article a few months back (can't find the link).

So is Austin right or is CSKA a good landing spot outside of the NBA?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> rlucas, you need to elaborate on this... especially regarding CSKA.
> ...


Can't it be both?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Can't it be both?


Yes  However Greg Couch and whomever did the ESPN segment haven't spun it that way. I'm just trying to get towards the truth. Too many shades of gray.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> rlucas, you need to elaborate on this... especially regarding CSKA.
> ...


Austin is dumb. He couldnt be more wrong regarding CSKA. In fact, if I ever was going to take Paxs side on anything, this would be it. CSKA is a world class organization with world class facilities aand great people. They are regularly a finalist in europe and have produced many NBA players. No player, outside of Mario Austin , has ever made these ridiculous claims. In fact, I think it might be argued that CSKA is more professional then the Bulls but that is is a different story. Austin is making excuses. But thats all they are, excuses. He was there a week, they paid him and diagnosed his injury correctly. But everyone thinks CSKA is as shady cause its in Russia. Let me tell you guys something, it isnt. I was really impressed with them


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I didn't really like the segment. My heart did definitely go out to Austin, and Duffy is DEFINITELY a snake (Anthony Carter? Yup. His fault). Bill Duffy was really condescending when he was saying that it was communicated TO Austin about his non-guaranteed contract but whether or not he understood it is a different story. He talked about making things as elementary as possible because apparently, Mario Austin is just trailer trash with the brains of a chair. That's not really fair.

But with the facts given, especially Fact #4 in superdave's post, I think Austin is definitely up to something fishy. He is definitely not seeing things totally well, which gives him mistake as an excuse and possibly as a justification. Yet, apparently he DID know about his non-guaranteed contract. ESPN was silly to have overlooked it, but their segment was designed for drama, not journalism.

In the end, it's a pity. I think Austin might be genuinely confused, and I think Paxson and Duffy do seem like they are up to no good. 

Practically speaking, I think it's given Pax a pretty bad name as a GM. This, in addition to cutting Corie Blount when he did, is very bad PR for the Bulls' management. Taking care of Jay Williams isn't really enough to cover that up.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Austin is dumb. He couldnt be more wrong regarding CSKA. In fact, if I ever was going to take Paxs side on anything, this would be it. CSKA is a world class organization with world class facilities aand great people. They are regularly a finalist in europe and have produced many NBA players. No player, outside of Mario Austin , has ever made these ridiculous claims. In fact, I think it might be argued that CSKA is more professional then the Bulls but that is is a different story. Austin is making excuses. But thats all they are, excuses. He was there a week, they paid him and diagnosed his injury correctly. But everyone thinks CSKA is as shady cause its in Russia. Let me tell you guys something, it isnt. I was really impressed with them


Thanks, as always for the input. 

http://www.cskabasket.com/team/?lang=en
I'm looking over their roster and I recognize some names. Sergei Monya, Victor Khryapa, Mirsad Turkcan and..... Dragan Tarlac  

Considering Monya and/or Khryapa could both be in a Bulls uniform next season, I hope Austin's flameout hasn't hurt our chances of getting either. Any difficult buyout issues there rlucas? God, I hope not.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks, as always for the input.
> ...


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> OT, I agree with everything you say below, but I disagree with your legal conclusion (of course, maybe that's why I quit law school and became an economist). He didn't sign away his right to earn a living... he signed what was by all appearances a pretty lucrative contract. Isn't an even more basic principle of contract law that contracts should be enforced?
> ...


I should clarify,

I was speaking in terms of a preliminary injunction. As was shown most recently in Vin Bakers situation courts are not going to stop someone from being able to sing while they are waiting for their suit to be tried. It would be too large a burden. They are not going to disalow someone from earning a living for a year because the judicial process is slow.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I was thinking about the draft process yesterday and how much questionable play there must be between agents and GMs. For a player to get drafted in the second round, who has little chance of making a club, they must have to guarantee the francise that they are willing to go overseas. Otherwise the club loses the pick outright. 

Austin may have been told he was a first rounder, but when he wasn't selected, Duffy promised Pax that he would be willing to get shipped. This is where the questionable business would come into play... While there is pressure concerning Duffy's reputation to take care of his client, his relationship with pax is the golden cow. If he told Pax that Austin was willing to go overseas and then his player backs out, his reputation for being able to push his players overseas would take a serious hit. Next draft GM's would be less likely to select one of his players in the second round. Duffy's reputation with GM's appears ultimately more important than his reputation with his minor clients. Ick, a recipe for disaster...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> I should clarify,
> ...


This is true, but it's also a self-made problem. If the courts weren't willing to hear all kinds of ridiculous claims as if they had real merit, they'd be a lot quicker. 

In any case, however, though, an injunction here pretty much determines the outcome of the case. My point is merely that if the court chose specific performance and rather than injunction, the parties would likely get to the same result but without wasting the time and money of the court system. Saying that it's "too big of a burden" to put on one side is kind of foolish to me... the burden was put there by the people who signed the contract in the first place.

Why not ask for specific performance from Austin? That way he can make plenty of money by honoring his contract. CSKA is still getting services rendered, so if the contract gets terminated in court, both sides would still walk with partial compensation. Or, they CSKA might decide they don't want an unhappy player and give in to Austin's wishes.

In Baker's case, he was actually complaining about a breech on the part of the Celtics... they were terminating him without cause laid out in his contract. In that case, I'd say force the Celts to keep him and pay him until the issue is resolved. If the contract ends up being terminated, Baker has to pay back his money. That creates a game of risk that puts an incentive on both parties to avoid using the legal system entirely, and instead work on some sort of compensated buyout settlement.

My point in all of this is that if the premise of the courts are "too busy" to handle this, the solution adds fuel to the fire, and it also does so at the expense of the basic principle of contract. I know to a big extent I'm tilting at windmills because such is the state of our legal system... but I'd be a lot happier if the courts made it a priority to actually have people honor their contracts and promoted solutions that actually pushed incentives away from litigation. 

But I'm really OT at this point , so I'll bring it back around... why wouldn't Austin be better off if he was simply told... "Hey, yeah, your agent jerked you around, but you could still make a ton of cash and broaden your horizons by going back to CSKA. And the bottom line is that YOU signed that contract. So if you want to make some cash, get your *** back there and offer to play. Perhaps they'll get lucky and release you from your deal, but the very worst that could happen is you'd make a lot more money than you will in the World Basketball Association". If he refuses to take that advice... why have much sympathy for him? He's clearly not too bright, but he's an adult and he had a choice in the matter.


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## Wild Wild West (Jun 30, 2003)

I am surprised at the number of people who lump Pax and Duffy together as the bad guys here. From what I can tell, the reality of the situation was Austin overvalued his worth in the draft, quite possibly with Duffy's help. I could easily see how he might have expected to be a late first round pick, but the comments he made about being a lottery pick were ridiculous.

The Bull's in my opinion may have seen what looked like a pretty good value in the second round so they picked him, knowing they had no immediate use for him (too many PF's on the roster). There is nothing particularly wrong with that, it is a business, and second round picks have minimal leverage. 

So Austin not only didn't get first round guaranteed money, but also was drafted by a team that considered the rights to him valuable, but actually wanted him to get additional seasoning elsewhere, and then maybe they would have room for him with contracts such as Baxter and Fizer expiring.

Under those circumstances I believe Pax did the right thing for the Bulls. He offered just a one year non guaranteed contract, and probably was working with Duffy to help find Austin a decent contract and competitive environment to develope until their roster had a spot for him. That team is very good and has two forwards, Monya and Krypala (may have mispelled that) that are expected to be NBA picks this year. When it happened I was pretty encouraged that this would be a high caliber competitive environment for him, and that the Bulls while scouting and following his progress would also get a feel for their interest in the other two players. On paper it looked like a good situation for the Bulls, and good for Austin's developement.

He was probably devasted because he couldn't begin his professional career in the states, but stockpiling 2nd round future picks to be signed several years later is not that uncommon in the NBA. In addition I believe the Bulls with Duffy tried to find a pretty good alternative for him, but couldn't anticipate how homesick or uncomfortable he would feel there.

Only the participants know for sure, but I suspect Pax is the least guilty of the three parties. Duffy has had other issues and the fact he would make alot more with the foreign contract brings his vested interest into the decision into question, but from Pax's standpoint it looks to me like he did the best thing for the Bull's, protecting his rights to a potentially valuable asset, and helping to find a good place for Austin to develope with a contract as good as he could have expected if he was in the NBA.

Austin obviously made several mistakes, and blames Duffy and maybe Pax for what happened. Once Austin decided to ignore his contractual obligations, he was probably in dire financial straits. No degree, no basketball income, and no ability to pursue minor league options here without getting a costly buyout from the foreign contract, money he probably didn't have. In addition he burned his bridges with Duffy, as quite possibly Duffy did with Austin.

So far Austin's basketball ability combined with his mistakes has not made him money, it has cost him money because of the need for a buyout. Whatever that buyout cost I'm sure he is getting peanuts in this minor league deal, and he probably needed to try to recoup something from Duffy to at least reduce his losses. Once that happens doesn't he have a vested interest ($) in having selective amnesia regarding what was or wasn't offered. He needs to prove Duffy was negligent to collect. I suspect he may not have been the best agent in the world, and he may be scum for all I know, but from a legal standpoint I suspect Austin doesn't have much of a case.

My best belief is he was offered the one year non guaranteed contract, because that was probably the right thing for Pax to do at the time, and then Austin signed and then backed out of a contract, and at least on the later point that is Austin's fault no one else's. The liar charges between Pax and Austin being more of an unfortunate byproduct of the Austin/Duffy litigation, so who has a possible monetary interest in lying about that issue, with serious financial problems? Obviously Austin.

This is obviously a mess for all concerned, and I don't know how the litigation will come out, but I suspect Austin is entitled legally to nothing from Duffy. Duffy is presumably a wealthy man and might settle for a modest sum, admitting no guilt, just to make this go away and try to salvage his reputation with other players in the league who could be turned off by this. The Bulls's are not from what I can tell directly involved, just as witnesses, where i suspect they will just tell the truth, which I believe will support Duffy's recollection of events more than Austin's.

I believe Pax is still trying to stay on the high road by indicating his desire for Austin to be part of the summer league roster, but is in the middle of these flying accusations. I hope the Duffy/Austin war does not jeopardize Pax/Austin. To that extent some kind of a settlement might be best for all parties. If this goes to court it could be ugly and lies may be common and damaging even if untrue. 

I don't think Duffy or Pax have any unmet legal obligations here. Duffy and Austin have obviously ended their relationship, but Bull's fans hope Pax and Austin have not burned their bridges beyond repair. My main question is should Pax try to be an intermediary here. I would not mind if Pax tried to encourage Duffy to settle, by agreeing without admiting guilt to contribute to the settlement with Duffy, to help this issue go away and allow the Bulls and Austin to continue even if Duffy and Austin don't.

In that regard isn't this somewhat similar to Jay's situation. He made a mistake, and he violated his contract. The Bulls could have said see ya, but they didn't. I feel Austin's problems are mostly self inflicted, but we all make mistakes. He shouldn't make money overall as a result of this suit in my opinion, but if a combination of Duffy and the Bulls helped to compensate Austin for at least some portion of his buyout, I could see that as a good solution to a messy situation.

Who knows what really happened, but based on what I have heard and the apparent vested interests of the parties in this dispute, I believe some are jumping to conclusions on Paxson's guilt, and he may have acted properly throughout this process, and with the summer camp offer is cllearly trying to salvage something here. What do you guys think?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Excellent analysis WWW and CCCP!

And I have to take back what I said earlier, it doesn't appear that a lot of this makes Paxson look that bad because I don't see what, at any point, he could or should have done differently.

The one thing that would seem to make sense that he hasn't done is waive Shirley (who would have to be paid anyway, but who can't play because he's hurt) and sign up Austin to play out the string. To me, that would make sense. If the Bulls have any interest in bringing in Austin this summer, it might help to get him on court and practicing now.

The only legit reason I've heard for Shirley signing again is to include his non-guaranteed deal in a trade this summer, but if I'm not mistaken he could still be signed again as soon as the season is up, and thus used for his legitimate purpose (trade fodder).

This would also, of course, get Austin a lot more cash than what he's making in the WBA, and thus facilitate any buyout that needs to happen.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> I didn't really like the segment. My heart did definitely go out to Austin, and Duffy is DEFINITELY a snake (Anthony Carter? Yup. His fault).


This is off topic, but Bill Duffy's Anthony Carter mistake has had long reaching implications in the fabric of the NBA. If they had not been able to clear the cap space of Mr. Carter's contract, the Heat would not have been able to sign Lamar Odom to a reasonable offer sheet that the Clips would not match. The Heat would not be in the playoff race. 

Duffy altered the Eastern Conference playoff race this year by making a dumb mistake. That's amazing.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

I think we are focusing on 2 things. I happen to think that Pax didnt anything wrong in his handling of Austin, who is basically a nincumpoop. 

But the real question is, why did we draft this kid in the first place? We only had no one on the wing (rose) and this was our stable of 4s (TC, Marshall, Baxter, Fizer, Blount). Why we took this kid is the real question


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> I think we are focusing on 2 things. I happen to think that Pax didnt anything wrong in his handling of Austin, who is basically a nincumpoop.
> 
> But the real question is, why did we draft this kid in the first place? We only had no one on the wing (rose) and this was our stable of 4s (TC, Marshall, Baxter, Fizer, Blount). Why we took this kid is the real question


Best player available, I assume. He thought he was a lottery pick!?!?!


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> I think we are focusing on 2 things. I happen to think that Pax didnt anything wrong in his handling of Austin, who is basically a nincumpoop.
> 
> But the real question is, why did we draft this kid in the first place? We only had no one on the wing (rose) and this was our stable of 4s (TC, Marshall, Baxter, Fizer, Blount). Why we took this kid is the real question


This is why I think Duffy (and maybe even Pax) after filthy on this matter. There is no reason Austin should have been drafted by us... especially with our needs.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

we should have been taking any wing player we could have gotten our filthy paws on. Or we should have been looking at some euro project to stash overseas for a year. Didnt Shortsiandes go after our pick? the big 7-7 kid could have been stashed overseas. Did we even have Marquis Daniels in for a workout? Geez, lets take another PF!


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> Excellent analysis WWW and CCCP!
> 
> And I have to take back what I said earlier, it doesn't appear that a lot of this makes Paxson look that bad because I don't see what, at any point, he could or should have done differently.
> ...


On the whole signing of Austin to replace Shirley thing... I don't think the Bulls really want Austin anymore because of what he did to CSKA Moscow. In other words, I think Pax was trying to establish a realtionship with a foreign team and Austin screwed it up. Until his contract situation with CSKA is resolved, I'd be surprised if the Bulls have much of anything to do with the guy. This is a bad enough situation between the Bulls and CSKA Moscow and if the Bulls were to add to their roster the very player that has caused this whole mess, I've got to believe that any further relations between the Bulls and CKSA would be pretty much over.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Best player available, I assume. He thought he was a lottery pick!?!?!


Thank you. The draft is a crapshoot, and by the 2nd round you're taking the best player available or guys you can stash away for 1-2 seasons overseas.

Guess what happened with Austin? The Bulls drafted him, gave him burn in the summer league, liked his game, and let him go to one of the finer teams outside of the US on a pretty lucrative deal for a 2nd rounder.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2003.htm

Look at the garbage picked after Austin. Marquis Daniels went undrafted and looks very good in DAL. The Nelsons seem to unearth talent that no one else do. Kudos to them.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I watched this segment over twice, and still don't find myself leaning to one side or the other as to who to believe. My natural instincts tell me to believe Austin, the whole thing makes you *want* to believe him. But the realistic, non-sentimental side of me thinks that this guy is just looking for someone to blame for basically throwing his life away. Like Retro said, it's quite obvious that he's not the smartest guy in the world, which may have led him to make this poor decision to forgo his senior year and enter the draft. In the situation he was in, he had to have known that there was the possibility he wouldn't be taken in the first round, no matter what his agent says. As sad as it is, there are probably around 40 guys who are told that they are "Locks for the First Round" every year, and their simply aren't enough First rounders to go around. Anyway, in Austin's given position, it just seems to me that it would be very easy just to point the finger at his agent, and claim that he never told him about his opportunity with the Bulls rather than taking the route he took, and playing in Moscow. I don't know who's lying in this situation, but regardless, it's very unfortunate what happened to Austin, and is something that should be avoided in the future. I think there has to be some changes in the rules that allow players who hire agents to have the option to return to school, even if they are drafted. The team that drafts them can keep their rights while they're back in school for up to a year, and can offer him a contract after he plays another year in college, and if that player so wishes, he should be allowed to enter the draft again. Sure, it's not an ideal situation, but the fact is, you won't stop these guys from making bad decisions and entering the draft, so in order to avoid these situations, they should be given some reprieve. 

:twocents:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> On the whole signing of Austin to replace Shirley thing... I don't think the Bulls really want Austin anymore because of what he did to CSKA Moscow. In other words, I think Pax was trying to establish a realtionship with a foreign team and Austin screwed it up. Until his contract situation with CSKA is resolved, I'd be surprised if the Bulls have much of anything to do with the guy. This is a bad enough situation between the Bulls and CSKA Moscow and if the Bulls were to add to their roster the very player that has caused this whole mess, I've got to believe that any further relations between the Bulls and CKSA would be pretty much over.


That's a good point, but I'm not sure it's true in fact because the Bulls have said they'd welcome him on their summer squad. Maybe thing's will be resolved by then, but if the Bulls were really trying to play it safe, I'd think they'd give Mario the old "Thanks but no thanks".

-----------------------------

On *why the Bulls would draft Austin?*, I think it did make some sense. First, if they were getting signals he'd go to Europe for a year, he wouldn't command a roster spot, which we were tight on last summer. We also had two backups at PF... Baxter and Fizer, under expiring deals. In that context, it made pretty good sense to take a guy like that (although in the context of us trying to move Jalen Rose at all costs, which we were apparently trying to do, it didn't make much sense).

I searched on ESPN and there's actually a lot of interesting stuff there. Austin apparently declared for the draft in HIGH SCHOOL and then took it back and went to Mississippi State. 

Finally, Austin was a pretty good prospect who a few months prior was being mentioned as a lottery prospect by Chad Ford. :laugh:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Thank you. The draft is a crapshoot, and by the 2nd round you're taking the best player available or guys you can stash away for 1-2 seasons overseas.
> ...


I think I gotta disagree there... Steve Blake, Mo Williams, Travis Hansen, Willie Green, Keith Bogans, Kyle Korver, Zaur Pachulia and Brandon Hunter all found roster spots, and some of the foreign kids that got drafted after Mario might come in down the road. Having a guy like Bogans or Korver would be pretty cool right now :|


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a good point, but I'm not sure it's true in fact because the Bulls have said they'd welcome him on their summer squad. Maybe thing's will be resolved by then, but if the Bulls were really trying to play it safe, I'd think they'd give Mario the old "Thanks but no thanks".


I think the whole "thanks but no thanks" approach would be the last thing the Bulls would do. If they do that, its one more bullet for Austin to fire. He'll play the "look at what the big bad NBA franchise did to me. They made me go to Russia and now they have turned their back on me. boo hoo hoo." If the whole contract situation isn't resolved by the time for the Rocky Mountain revue I fully expect something like: "Well Mario, we'd like to put you on our summer roster but we've already got 17 players that we're going to be looking at." If his situation is resolved I'm still not sure they bring him in. Sure they say they'd welcome him on the summer squad. Until they actually do put him on their Revue squad is a whole 'nother thing entirely.

I feel sorry for the guy. He's been used. Primarily by his agent. He doesn't seem the brightest bulb in the chandalier and he's made some pretty poor choices. Hey, at least it's something to talk about. Can't we somehow blame Skiles for this too? It seems to be the vogue thing to do.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the whole "thanks but no thanks" approach would be the last thing the Bulls would do. If they do that, its one more bullet for Austin to fire. He'll play the "look at what the big bad NBA franchise did to me. They made me go to Russia and now they have turned their back on me. boo hoo hoo." If the whole contract situation isn't resolved by the time for the Rocky Mountain revue I fully expect something like: "Well Mario, we'd like to put you on our summer roster but we've already got 17 players that we're going to be looking at." If his situation is resolved I'm still not sure they bring him in. Sure they say they'd welcome him on the summer squad. Until they actually do put him on their Revue squad is a whole 'nother thing entirely.
> ...


If Skiles were here, he would find a way to play Shirley over him too. Damn Skiles!


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

ESPN Mario Austin piece (20 megs) 

get the divx 5.1 codec


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I think I gotta disagree there... Steve Blake, Mo Williams, Travis Hansen, Willie Green, Keith Bogans, Kyle Korver, Zaur Pachulia and Brandon Hunter all found roster spots, and some of the foreign kids that got drafted after Mario might come in down the road. Having a guy like Bogans or Korver would be pretty cool right now :|


MikeDC, I'm not sure what exactly you're saying here bro. You said before that the Austin pick 'did make some sense' and now you would rather have a guy like Bogans or Korver in his stead? Hmm.... 

There were 3 SFs drafted in the 2nd round after Austin. James Jones (who the?), Kyle Korver (really does nothing but wait for threes) and Tommy Bahama Smith (pogostick). Kudos to those who made NBA rosters.

Fizer is toast, Chandler may never be the player we thought he'd be, and likely Austin will get another invite to our summer league team. What's the problem? This may have just worked out in the long run for both parties.


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## genex (Apr 17, 2003)

*Hey fellas,*

Just wanted to add my 2 cents;

When I head this story back in December 03 I was shocked and angry at what I considered a lack of professionalism on the part of DUffy. Now that I have seen the ESPN piece, I am more likely to believe DUffy and Paxson. The tender offer contract situation is pretty standard in the NBA for non first round picks. He was unlikely to make the team due to the PF glut, was told so, and so Duffy got him a sweet gauranteed deal in Russia (at 500K + per year for 2 years). So what is the problem?

I just dont see what Duffy did badly. He did his job which was get his man a deal to play pro ball..notice that ESPN doesnt mention that Austin was utterly and completely homesick from the very beginning...or that his lung problems were being treated in Russia but AUstin refused treatment without his mom present... if he was making good money, why didnt his mother fly to see him?...but Austin missed his home and family...like many young (he is barely 21) do...so he runs. Notice that Austin didnt sue Duffy for Fraud or misrepresentation until DUffy sued HIM for breach of contrect (Austin countersued) Bottom line to Austin..."Young man, life IS pain,...anyone who says different is selling something"...

As for Pax, although he has shown his lack of experience in other areas, the tender offer issue, was most likely handled by the legal business department with Pax as a mouthpiece...He has business reason to lie about the conference call...he stated his intention to have Austin try for the team in 04!! I think that Austin just wasnt able to comprehend the details of being a pro ballplayer....he just thought he would sign a piece of 
paper,...work hard..and make money for his family and himself. 

Austin is a small town kid who somehow got into Miss State (where were his college mentors during all of this?) and was looking to get an NBA contract for himself and his loved ones. Its sad, but not too sad...he will likely be on the Summer league squad (unless his mom says he cant .

As for DUffy, I am sure he has witnesses and documents to support his positions. If he is guilty of something it isnt b/c he was a shady agent...he is guilty of not evaluating his client's emotional ability and maturity to handle overseas play (just picture the tears Austin was crying at the end of the ESPN piece?. 

Austin left college to take care $$$ of his family. When he couldnt be in the NBA, he was offered overseas play at 500k per year, 2 years...he AND HIS MOTHER SAW THE MONEY...so he signed. Once he got there he could not hang!! So he looked for a way out...his agent ignored him....so he bailed, took his ball went home, told his mommy it was everyone else's fault he couldnt make the money he promised her and his family...

Dont get me wrong, I dont dislike Austin, I just think that he put his sign "open for Basketball business" when he wasnt ready to DO basketball business. 

As for the law student who commented on the "signing away his right to earn a living.." that is neither here nor there legally... the issue is malfeasence and misrepresentation. 

All right. I will now shut up. Salutations to all!!!


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> MikeDC, I'm not sure what exactly you're saying here bro. You said before that the Austin pick 'did make some sense' and now you would rather have a guy like Bogans or Korver in his stead? Hmm....


Was just sayin that there were good players (relatively speaking) picked after Smith, not just garbage. I still agree that for where we were headed, he wasn't a bad pick, but it could be argued that if we were really trying to dump Rose, for example, we might have been better served going with someone like Bogans or Korver. That's a pretty minor criticism in the grand scheme of things though.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Hey fellas,*



> Originally posted by <b>genex</b>!
> 
> 
> As for the law student who commented on the "signing away his right to earn a living.." that is neither here nor there legally... the issue is malfeasence and misrepresentation.
> ...


Once again, I was speaking in terms of burden allocation and getting a preliminary injunction, not trial. Vin Baker's and Lebron's plight show how there is a heavy presumption for letting players play and sign with teams, while their suits are waiting to be tried. Even if Austin has little chance of winning a misrepresentation suit, I imagine he could sign with a team tomorrow (until his court decision which would probably cover this entire season) if he had adequate representation. Given the small damage allowing him to sign with an interm team would cause to CSKA, and Duffy, courts are not going to deny Austin the ability to support himself while he waits for a contract dispute to be heard.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/7509031.htm

Nothing new, but more background.


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

> Did anyone see the Mario Austin feature on "SportsCenter" last night? It was about how he didn't get drafted in the first round and ended up going to Russia to play, where he ran away from his contract. he's now suing his former agent, Bill Duffy, because he says Duffy didn't get him into the NBA, like he'd promised to. I linked to the same story a few months ago, so it wasn't really news.
> 
> One thing that I can add to the story is that Austin claimed when he was in the hospital in Serbia, he couldn't get his agent, Bill Duffy, on the phone. I talk to a lot of NBA agents, including Bill Duffy, and whenever I call Bill Duffy's cell phone, which is fairly regularly, no matter what time I call him, he always answers. I've never even heard his voicemail. And a lot of times I'll call from my office phone, which comes up as "UNAVAILABLE," so it isn't like he's dodging calls. *As soon as Austin said he couldn't get Duffy on the phone...well, that sealed my opinion on who was telling the truth.*


http://www.slamonline.com/links/03292004/


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## AstheFranchiz2K2 (May 24, 2003)

It's really sad to hear a story like this. So many lies. But what i wanna know is what toke so long to make this story. I read an article about this a month or 2 ago.


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## genex (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: Hey fellas,*



> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> Once again, I was speaking in terms of burden allocation and getting a preliminary injunction, not trial. Vin Baker's and Lebron's plight show how there is a heavy presumption for letting players play and sign with teams, while their suits are waiting to be tried. Even if Austin has little chance of winning a misrepresentation suit, I imagine he could sign with a team tomorrow (until his court decision which would probably cover this entire season) if he had adequate representation. Given the small damage allowing him to sign with an interm team would cause to CSKA, and Duffy, courts are not going to deny Austin the ability to support himself while he waits for a contract dispute to be heard.


I better understand your point of you now...however, no league, (NBDL, CBA, or NBA, Euroleagues) would take Austin until his Russian league contract was settled as all pro leagues (except for this new WBA) have all signed on to FIBA rules so as to prohibit leagues from stealing players from one another.


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