# Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [#3 Toronto Raptors]



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Rules

Open to all... even GMs. You cannot  vote for you own division (public poll would allow to monitor this and DQ/Penalize those who don't follow rule). Vote seriously, and realistically, based on the final lineups for who you think would be the best in each Div. There will be a 24 Hour Time limit.

After the divisions are completed, The the top 8 vote getters for each conference move onto the playoffs. Follow typical 1 vs. 8, 2 vs 7, etc playoff structure.

Same thing. Vote on each Playoff matchup. You can not vote for your own matchup. Winner advances. Maybe another 24 hour time limit. Continue this until we reach the Finals with final vote and crown a champ.*



If I put someone out of position, let me know. I just went through, and did the ones myself. I left the rosters of the teams who needed to make picks blank. I just want to get through this.










*GM: Premier

C - Andrew Bogut/Kendrick Perkins
PF - Radmanović/Darko Miličić
SF - Lebron James/David Lee/Damien Wilkins
SG - S. Jasikevičius/Tony Allen/Julius Hodge
PG - Jason Terry/ Jason Hart

*











*GM: Real

C-Zaza Pachulia/Aaron Williams
PF- Chris Mihm/Jake Voskuhl
SF- Josh Howard/Alan Anderson/Justin Reed
SG- Jerry Stackhouse/Morris Peterson
PG-Mike James/Luther Head


*











* GM: Zei_Zao_LS

C-Erick Dampier/Raef Lafrentz/Pat Burke
PF- Rasheed Wallace/Bo Outlaw
SF- Andrei Kirilenko/Robert Horry
SG- LeAndro Barbosa/Nick Van Exel
PG- Chris Duhon/Beno Udrih/Jose Calderon


*











* GM: sMak

C- Yao Ming
PF- 
SF- Caron Butler
SG- Cuttino Mobley
PG- Mo Williams/Shaun Livingston
*











* GM: ss03

C- DeSagana Diop/Adonal Foyle
PF- Stromile Swift/Mark Blount/Toni Kukoc
SF- Paul Pierce/ John Salmons/ Viktor Khryapa
SG- Kobe Bryant/Ronald Murray
PG- Andre Miller/ Marcus Banks 
*


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division*

Vote!!!!


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

Vote!!

Just doing this so people see it on "new posts"


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

I think the raptors will be the team to beat. They get my vote


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

Just about 1 HR left. Vote!


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

How in the world did he end up with Kobe and Pierce on the same team?

But that bench needs some serious help.... It's always give-and-take with superstars.

On the other hand, Celtic's bench is only a hair better, except at #5 where the Celtics have a huge edge.

Still, ss03 gets my vote. :cheers:


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

Trades, trades, and more trades. That's how.


20 mins left.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

To those I pmed asking for your vote to help us out, even some who are GMs of this thing, thanks for nothing.

In the event of a tie as we have here, we will keep it open till someone votes for one of those 2 by just writing it here.


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## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

i wanted to vote oh well its close.


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## ss03 (May 31, 2006)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



Dissonance19 said:


> Trades, trades, and more trades. That's how.
> 
> 
> 20 mins left.


A handful of teams had more trades than I did though, I made 3 trades I think. Oddly, this is the only draft I traded in at all, so sorry about that, but it was probably because it was my first so I decided to have some fun.

I didn't think my bench was that bad, definitely not the best in the league, but I thought it would hold up pretty well. Diss, no point in changing it now, and its my fault for not noticing earliar (and I don't thinking it effected anyone's votes) but I'd have switched Kukoc and Salmon's, and made Kukoc 3rd string behind Blount, but at the end of the day, all that matters is that the players are right, because a lot of it is left upto voters imaginations (this is qutie a run on sentence).

Anyway, people vote so we can start up the next division! I want to vote, and I can't in this one.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



ss03 said:


> A handful of teams had more trades than I did though, I made 3 trades I think. Oddly, this is the only draft I traded in at all, so sorry about that, but it was probably because it was my first so I decided to have some fun.
> 
> I didn't think my bench was that bad, definitely not the best in the league, but I thought it would hold up pretty well. Diss, no point in changing it now, and its my fault for not noticing earliar (and I don't thinking it effected anyone's votes) but I'd have switched Kukoc and Salmon's, and made Kukoc 3rd string behind Blount, but at the end of the day, all that matters is that the players are right, because a lot of it is left upto voters imaginations (this is qutie a run on sentence).
> 
> Anyway, people vote so we can start up the next division! I want to vote, and I can't in this one.



Oh, no I was exaggerating man. I know you didn't make that many trades. No need to apologize.

And I changed your roster to how you told me to in the discussion thread, which I forgot till recently. I can change it again.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

Sheed, I think you can still vote and be the tiebreaker.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

I cant vote! :curse:


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

I said it a couple of posts up..

In the event of a tie. it's still open...so you can write it in on here.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

Raps.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

Dunno if my vote counts or not, but Raptors for me.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

nm.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

I don't think that is a fair representation of my rotation, however I am to blame.

I do feel my team is superior [marginally], though any team with Pierce on it gets my support.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



Premier said:


> I don't think that is a fair representation of my rotation, however I am to blame.
> 
> I do feel my team is superior [marginally], though any team with Pierce on it gets my support.




I just posted how you had it set up. I don't post the multiple positions they play at, because I just wanted the players posted once. It gets to be too much otherwise.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting closed]*

Since other divisions are 48 hrs, maybe we should keep this going till tomorrow at 3:44pm? It will make it fair, because some other divisions will have more votes with extra time.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting closed]*



Dissonance19 said:


> Since other divisions are 48 hrs, maybe we should keep this going till tomorrow at 3:44pm? It will make it fair, because some other divisions will have more votes with extra time.


If 4-7 is based on votes, that is only fair.


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## ss03 (May 31, 2006)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



Premier said:


> I don't think that is a fair representation of my rotation, however I am to blame.
> 
> I do feel my team is superior [marginally], though any team with Pierce on it gets my support.


Perhaps not, but keep in mind everyone is getting their rotations represented in the same way and so you can't pick that out as the main problem. 

I thought this was one of the toughest divisions in the draft, and so it ultimately came down to which of the 5 teams people thought would go on to have a better season record if they actually played out 82 games.

The main thing I see with your team, is that in 2/3 years time if certain players pan out as they are expected to from here on out, it will look far more stacked than a Kobe/Pierce team ever could, and would probably be better balanced. I think in terms of winning now and winning later, you have a good balance. If the key players stay, you've definitely build a team that could be a dynasty, to win it all now, well, we'll see.

Edit: Sorry, didn't read your post properly, I thought you already decided to make it 48 hours. Yea it should go on as long as all other ones, to make sure every division gets a chance at an equal share of votes. Perhaps to be fair, every division should be capped at 30 votes, unless the winner is not as difinitive as we'd want it to be. That way, on a busy day one division can't get 50 votes, and on a slow day another division gets 15, just a thought.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting closed]*

So, should we have extra time, or not? I love the input going on here. When I ask a question, 1 person usually answers after 5 or 6 read the thread.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting closed]*



Dissonance19 said:


> So, should we have extra time, or not? I love the input going on here.



Lets give it one more day.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

Voting is reopened till 9:44pm tomorrow.


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## VC4MVP (Dec 30, 2005)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



ss03 said:


> Perhaps not, but keep in mind everyone is getting their rotations represented in the same way and so you can't pick that out as the main problem.
> 
> *I thought this was one of the toughest divisions in the draft*, and so it ultimately came down to which of the 5 teams people thought would go on to have a better season record if they actually played out 82 games.
> 
> ...


Imo, this has been easily the worst division in the eastern conference.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

This poll is still open. VOTE.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

Not sure if this closes at 3:44, and I will just count write ins. We extended it a day though, but till 9:44pm. But this should be getting more votes than it is.


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## endora60 (Jan 5, 2006)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

GM: ss03

C- DeSagana Diop/Adonal Foyle
PF- Stromile Swift/Mark Blount/Toni Kukoc
SF- Paul Pierce/ John Salmons/ Viktor Khryapa
SG- Kobe Bryant/Ronald Murray
PG- Andre Miller/ Marcus Banks 

Pierce, Kobe and Andre Miller all on the same team? Easy one to call. :clap:


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*



Dissonance19 said:


> Not sure if this closes at 3:44, and I will just count write ins. We extended it a day though, but till 9:44pm. But this should be getting more votes than it is.



It was going to end at 3:44 so I extended it a day. So right now the voting ends tomarrow at 3 but I or you can manual close it around 9:44 tonight.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

I'll say the Raptors slightly over the Knicks and Celtics


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

Raps easy.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

The Toronto Raptors. They have two elite scorers/play-makers in Kobe Bryant and Paul Pierce, along with a pass-first point guard to run the offense and distribute the ball. Their front court is fairly weak but, outside of Yao and Sheed, there isn't much front-court talent among their competitors.

The Raptors' incredibly talented perimeter wins this division.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*

I honestly do not care to defend my team, however I do feel it is now necessary for those who do not share my thoughts on my team concept and the players I drafted to fit said concept.

Excuse the run-on sentences. 



Minstrel said:


> Their front court is fairly weak but, outside of Yao and Sheed, there isn't much front-court talent among their competitors.


I feel you are too quick to dismiss the Celtics' frontcourt of Andrew Bogut, Vladimir Radmanović, Darko Miličić, and Kendrick Perkins, four players that will receive at least 28 minutes each, under my current rotation [Radmanović will start for about six to eight minutes at power forward, primarily playing small forward]. Each player was drafted for a particular basketball aspect, however, as per my drafting strategy, my frontcourt players [with a slight exception for Radmanović, who will only start the game to iniate early floor-spacing, in order to create a more comfortable slashing environment for LeBron James, while also being able to hit the open perimeter shot if and when LeBron or Bogut is doubled, as I have a considerable amount of confidence in their ability to find the open player, even at high pressure situations] are generally highly-efficient, unselfish, and above average at post defense. A common [and arbitrary] theme is youth, also. 

Andrew Bogut [15.2 PER] is perhaps my best frontcourt player. He is greatly efficient and unselfish [13.08 points per 40 minutes on 11.75 shot attempts [field-goal attempts plus .44 free-throw attempts per 40 minutes] for a PSA of 1.113], a good rebounder [RbR of 14.5], a good interior defender [excels at post defense, rotates slowly, however], and a tremendous passer from the post [AsR of 19], which I feel is an invaluable aspect on a team with such a dynamic playmaker in LeBron James and terrific outside shooters. In his one season, Bogut played every game. He will only improve.

Darko Miličić [16.3 ORL PER] is yet another young frontcourt player that was finally given the opportunity to play to his awesome potential late last season in Orlando. I do feel that Miličić was not developed in Detroit, so I will only consider statistics from his playing time with the Magic, even ignoring the relatively limited sample size. Miličić is not the hybrid forward player that we read about in his inaccurate pre-draft scouting reports. He is one of the best interior defensive presences in the NBA at an incredibly young age. In order to show continuity, I will use career statistics for the following aspect - blocked shots. In his 1,180 minutes, Darko has blocked 109 shots [3.7 shots blocked per forty minutes; 3.9 in Orlando last season]. He rebounds at an average to below average level [nearly steady RbR of 12.1] and is barely efficient [PSA of 1.05], however he is very unselfish and his finesse game extends out to 14 feet or so. He will only improve.

Kendrick Perkins [13.1 PER] is the last of my young PF/C triumvirate. He is simply an amazing [and by amazing I mean top ten in the entire league] rebounder [RbR of at least 18.4 the last two seasons; eleventh in the league both seasons [at 20 and 21]]. Perkins is also a good post defender, as he is incredibly strong and an average help defender, as he is slow, yet has excellent timing. He usuallly stays out of the way on offense, but has a nice hook shot and will contribute for eight to ten points in 28 minutes, while generally being efficient and passing up bad shots. He passes out of the double-team poorly, though. I feel Perkins' best attribute is his tendency to start the fast-break as soon as he rebounds the ball. The Celtics' were fortunate enough to have so much fast-breaking opportunities due to Perkins' attentiveness to throw the outlet pass to the point guard for easy three on one situations. He will only improve.

If I do feel the need [and if I have the time], I'll try to do this for all of my rotation players.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



Premier said:


> I feel you are too quick to dismiss the Celtics' frontcourt of Andrew Bogut, Vladimir Radmanović, Darko Miličić, and Kendrick Perkins, four players that will receive at least 28 minutes each, under my current rotation


To be more clear, when I was talking about opposing talent, I was referring to offensive talent, as in the sort of players that could really take advantage of a weaker defensive front court to do serious damage.

While all three of your young big men are useful players, none are real go-to offensive players who can consistently and systematically exploit defensive weakness in opposing front courts (though, like all players, they'll do a bit better against weaker front courts).

I don't find fault with your drafting strategy. I think Bogut is, in many ways, an ideal center to team with James. I don't think Bogut is a tremendous player now, but he could be in the future. He definitely provides front court passing, which fits your unselfish theme, but without a game that draws double-teams, his passing from the post is of limited value.

I'll admit that I didn't realize Perkins' rebounding prowess. He definitely makes for a good role-player off the bench, but he's essentially a specialist. For a big man, he's not a particularly efficient scorer and what scoring he does provide mostly comes off opportunistic chances.

Millicic had a nice break-out with Orlando, but still comprises mostly defensive value with potential for offensive value.

I think your front court is loaded with potential in Bogut and Millicic, and has a worthwhile role-player to take up some space and minutes, but at least in the coming season would probably not make a huge impact. Between all three of them, we're talking about an around-14 PER player. Not terrible, but not extremely significant. Future seasons could be a very different story.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



Minstrel said:


> Future seasons could be a very different story.


And with little criteria, due consideration should be given.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

I counted those 2 write in votes for the Raps, when they thought the poll was closed, which woulda allowed them to put it in. If I counted it one twice let me know.

If seedings were placed by votes, anyone see any injustices? This the top 10. I know, not 8. I doubt Atlanta gets another vote. Indiana, and Orlando are tied for 8.

Washington 17
Detroit 13
Toronto 13
Boston Celtics 10
Chicago 10
New York 5
Miami 4
Orlando 2
Indiana 2
Atlanta 1


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## VC4MVP (Dec 30, 2005)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*



Dissonance19 said:


> I counted those 2 write in votes for the Raps, when they thought the poll was closed, which woulda allowed them to put it in. If I counted it one twice let me know.
> 
> If seedings were placed by votes, anyone see any injustices? This the top 10. I know, not 8. I doubt Atlanta gets another vote. Indiana, and Orlando are tied for 8.
> 
> ...


Wait Diss, why are u doing it like that. That isnt right to teams in tougher divisions. Why dont u make another thread for the best teams that werent division winners? Then the u can do which teams got the most votes. It is ridiculous for Miami to be that low, they are almost as good as washington. Only problem with wut i said, is u have to hope 5 teams or more get votes. Also wut if more ppl voted more in one division than the other. Finally, have a vote for which division winners are have the best team, and the number of votes for each team will be how they get seeded (highest amount of votes will be 1 seed). U r probably gonna be confuzed by wut i said.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



Premier said:


> And with little criteria, due consideration should be given.


Hmm, I assumed this was about present value, since top vote-getters go on to "playoffs" and winner of the playoffs is crowned the "champion."


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting open to all]*



Minstrel said:


> Hmm, I assumed this was about present value, since top vote-getters go on to "playoffs" and winner of the playoffs is crowned the "champion."



I think it is present value as well. It is very hard to judge future value, I think that is one of the main reasons this draft didn't allow rookies to be drafted.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*



VC4MVP said:


> Wait Diss, why are u doing it like that. That isnt right to teams in tougher divisions. Why dont u make another thread for the best teams that werent division winners? Then the u can do which teams got the most votes. It is ridiculous for Miami to be that low, they are almost as good as washington. Only problem with wut i said, is u have to hope 5 teams or more get votes. Also wut if more ppl voted more in one division than the other. Finally, have a vote for which division winners are have the best team, and the number of votes for each team will be how they get seeded (highest amount of votes will be 1 seed). U r probably gonna be confuzed by wut i said.



Nothing is set. I wanted opinions on that system or if they think there is any injustices, because those good teams still get in. We'd put them matched up against who their seed is supposed to be against in another thread.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

1 Hr left.

Raps have 13 because someone wrote in thinking it was over before we extended it. They never got a chance to vote in the poll. I had the other who wrote it in vote in the poll though.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

20 minutes

as I said, Raps have 13, because of a write in.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting reopen for extra time]*

Voting closed...(we couldnt change the time, so the poll hasnt closed even though, it should be)

*Atlantic Division Champions










Toronto Raptors *


Final Standings
Toronto Raptors 13
Boston Celtics 12
New York Knicks 5
New Jersey Nets 0
Philadelphia 76ers 0


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## Tiz (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Suns GM Draft - Atlantic Division [Voting closed]*

Sorry I missed this vote. Was out of town for a few days.

If I had casted my vote it would have gone to* Boston*.


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