# Should Joe Johnson start?



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I really liked what I saw from Johnson last season when Penny went down with an injury, and I'd like to see him earn the starting SG role at some point during the season. He was fairly inconsistent last season, scoring 4 points on 2-9 shooting one night and then nearly notching a triple double the next, so I am not sure if he should start right out of the gate. I would try to give him get a regular 24 MPG, splitting the time with Penny at SG. Hopefully he continues the improvement he showed at times last season, and at some point during mid-season takes over the starting SG spot. I think he has the potential to be the future at SG for the Suns, and I hope they give him the playing time and consistency he needs to develop.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

JJ is one of my favorite players (got a picture with him this year at the RMR, he's a badass), but right now Penny brings intangibles to the floor that JJ doesn't. Joe has shown flashes of brilliance and in 2-3 years he will be the last piece of the puzzle in Phoenix, but right now, as you said, the inconsistency is his biggest detraction. Not like Penny is KG in the consistency department though, and typically as Penny goes so does the team.. When he plays bad, Phoenix usually loses.. 

By midseason Joe should be slotted 30 mins a game..


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I think Penny should start, but Joe will probably get more minutes than Penny, because Joe will get some garbage minutes at the 3.

The only problem with Joe is him being inconsistent, but that's expected from a young player. As the year goes on though, maybe after the All-Star break, Joe should be inserted into the starting five, and give the suns a good 30-35 minutes per game.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Just because he is young, he has the potential? The guy doesnt make his teammates better and brings 0 intangibles to the table. I would trade him for a young pure shooter instead!


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

I voted for no, because I feel it is Penny's spot to lose not his to win. Penny is still a good player and you can't take a spot away from him, if he doesnt do anything to show he isnt deserving. Even if Johnson starts to play well, Penny will be playing atleast as well, so it will be hard to take it away. I think the year after Johnson will start though.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I can only watch JJ play when Phoenix (or Boston, back then) is on national TV, so most of what I think of him comes from scouting reports and box scores. Looking at this link, there are some blocks of games where he puts up some fantastic numbers. Look at the games from 1/17-1/24 and from 4/8-4/16 to see what I'm talking about at. He also has some other smaller, seemingly random stretches where he puts up big numbers. Any second year player than can put up decent numbers on a good team (even inconsistently) gets some interest from me.

I didn't say he had potential to be an all-star or anything like that; all I said is that he has the potential to be the future SG of the Suns. If he could put up 14/4/4, I would consider him to be a good option as the starting SG on many teams -- and I think he's more than capable of putting up numbers like that. Also, I personally don't expect second year backup 2s to make their teammates better. He isn't their starting point or anything. As long as he doesn't make them worse when he's on the court, I think he's just fine.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Penny can still play good ball... 2-3 years tme Johnson will get his due..


Right now Penny is a key player to Phoenix success.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Penny isn't a key player for the Phoenix Suns.

He is a contributor, sure but they could replace Penny with every other contributor and not lose anything.

There wasn't a major difference between JJ and Penny last season. Just that Penny was less inconsistent, more experienced, less athletic and worse defensively.

Joe Johnson is primed to take over for Penny.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Penny isn't a key player for the Phoenix Suns.
> 
> He is a contributor, sure but they could replace Penny with every other contributor and not lose anything.
> ...


Penny in wins: 48% fg, 11.6ppg, 4.6apg, 5.1rpg
Penny in losses:40%fg, 9.2ppg, 3.3apg, 3.5rpg

Only Matrix has that kind of a statistical discrepancy in wins/losses, which (imo) is pretty indicative of how much Phoenix depends on Penny right now. That's why (for this year at least) Penny's health is of more importance to the Suns' success than Joe's improvement. 3 years from now they're going to depend on JJ to be a consistent contributor, so his development is critical, but right now Phoenix can win, and Penny is going to have to be a big part of that with his playoff experience.

I got to see Joe up close and personal at the RMR, and he was utterly amazing. It's crazy to watch him when he's playing in a more lax situation, because he's fluid and seems so much less nervous. I think last year's playoff disappointment (admit it, he stunk..) might have fueled him, because the player I saw this summer looked like a new Joe Johnson.. I hope that success can lead to improvement on the real stage, because knowing Penny it's a sure bet that some time or another Joe is going to get the call to duty for 40 minutes a game...


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

I definitely think JJ should start, but in due time. JJ did great last year when Penny was injured and at the RMV this summer, proving that he can become a starter. Penny will probably end up starting in the beginning, but I see JJ getting more minutes and eventually starting midway through the season.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Look get JJ in there now. The Suns are not winning a ship this year, but if Johnson gets the PT this year, when Penny is let go (and he will be) after his contract is up, Johnson has been starting for a couple of seasons. The Suns have some real talent on the team. Joe Johnson at this point is a better player than Penny, and Penny shouldn't be starting anymore, he is always hurt. Let him come off the bench. Joe Johnson needs to play with Amare, Steph and Matrix. That is a great core of players IMO.

Question for John: Why do you like Penny so much? He is on of the most overrated players in the history of the game. I have friends that thought he was better than McGrady before. Penny sucks. Why do you sweat him like you do? This isn't Orlando anymore and Penny doesn't have it anymore. 

And John, would you even be a Suns fan if Penny wasn't on the team, I doubt you would, because the only player you give credit to is Penny.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> 
> 
> Penny in wins: 48% fg, 11.6ppg, 4.6apg, 5.1rpg
> ...


Those statistics don't mean anything.

Every team will lose more games when a player doesn't bring his normal game.

Before Penny went down the Suns won a lot of close games. After he went down the Suns lost a lot of close games because they simply had no depth not because it was Penny.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

Joe Johnson might be a better player than Penny at this moment but as far as the team chemistry goes, I think they should start Penny untill JJ proves otherwise. JJ hardly gelled with the starters last year when Penny went down and his energy was sorely missed when he started.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Those statistics don't mean anything.
> ...


Those stats do mean something. If you're Ricky Davis of last year's Cavs, then of course, your stats are going to go up when the Cavs win and down when they loose. But Penny wasnt the Suns 1st option last year. Heck, he wasnt even their 3rd option on some plays last year. But I think somewhere in the season, JJ should start.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Please explain to me how on earth Joe will start next season?
What has he done for the Suns?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> Please explain to me how on earth Joe will start next season?
> What has he done for the Suns?


Just like I thought, you are just a Penny fan, you could care less about the Suns. Face it Penny is done, will you bronze his sneakers if you get the chance too also. Joe Johnson should be in the starting lineup from the start, so he can gain comfortability in with Marbury, Amare and Matrix. Penny might excel only playing 15-20 minutes a night. He is so injury prone, he might as well get used to coming off the bench.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

I seriously dont feel Joe Johnson should start early next season.

Midway, I can see Suns giving Johnson more minutes or start, mainly to let Penny rest. As injury prone as Penny is, he's got something most players dont have... Smarts. 

Johson isn't aggressive enough imo, he needs to be more aggressive, draw fouls and make his opponent play closer to him.


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

I think sometime during the season, Johnson should take over the starting duties.

If you look at his stats through the months last season, he improved over each month...

November: 16mpg - 5.1ppg, 1.9rpg, 1.3apg.

January: 31.1mpg - 10.8ppg, 4.1rpg, 2.5apg.

April: 31.9mpg - 15.9ppg, 3.6rpg, 4.0apg.

Once he starts getting some consistency, he should be starting.


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## TheMatrix31 (May 28, 2002)

He need to earn his way in to the starting lineup


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> Question for John: Why do you like Penny so much? He is on of the most overrated players in the history of the game. I have friends that thought he was better than McGrady before. Penny sucks. Why do you sweat him like you do? This isn't Orlando anymore and Penny doesn't have it anymore.
> 
> And John, would you even be a Suns fan if Penny wasn't on the team, I doubt you would, because the only player you give credit to is Penny.


Sorry I did miss your questions and now I am here to answer.

Why do I like Penny? Because he is the most skilled player in the NBA imo(guard wise). With his limited quickness and jumping ability he should be playing in the CBA or in Europe and wins a faked ring and get meaningless MVPS there. 

If u watch Penny plays, the guy contributes with his skills, T-mac or Kobe with Penny's physical limitations now will just be some scrubs in the NBA at best.

Joe Johnson was all hyped, he idolized Penny and copies Penny but 

1) He is never as smooths as Penny even right now.
2) The guy is slow for his age. 
3) Any decent NBA players can put up points wirh the ball is in his hands, but wins/losses counts only!

For your Penny homer question, I am a Penny fan and I admit I like Penny that's why I am a sun fan.

Penny wasnt the scroer T-Mac is because he doesnt shoot long range shots as often, but skill wise, ability to win games are far better than what T-mac has in his book!


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

I expect Penny to start for the Suns at the 2 spot (and not JJ *yet*), at least at the beginning of the year.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

John you are a comedian.


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## kb8gw32003 (Sep 10, 2003)

Start Penny for a few games, then Joe. Then finally pick from that. If that doesn't work trade either of them for a pure SG, then this whole thing would be over.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> John you are a comedian.


All I can say is thanks.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

"While the health and strength of his legs were better than they had been in a long time, he did miss 24 games after injuring his thumb in a December workout. The Suns found out just how much they missed Hardaway, going 10-14 in his absence, while posting a 34-24 record with the four-time All-Star on the court. "


The entire SUns team sux without Hardaway. There arent many guys know how to win games despite putting on huge numbers."


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Penny's stats are not impressive, but neither are Scottie Pippen's. Don't look at their points, there are more ways to contribute on the court. Marbury and Marion are already starters. The Suns don't need another scorer in the lineup. In fact, such a scenario would be detrimental to Stephon Marbury's style of play. So what does Penny give? He's one of the best rebounders and passers in the league at SG. Penny only played 3 more minutes per game than JJ, and his biggest advantages are in rebounds and assists. Both score at about the same rate. Penny was 4th on the team in effeciency with 12.4, while JJ was 6th with 9.1. Even if JJ improves, it's unlikely that he'll improve his rebs and assists to Penny's level. 

Consistency is definitely something you want in your starters. You don't want a player who will score 16 one game, and 4 the next game. JJ's 28% shooting in the playoffs didn't exactly help his case for who should be starting, since you want your regular season starters to start in the playoffs. Penny averaged 12.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 4.3 apg, 2.2 spg, and 0.8 bpg in the playoffs.

The Suns can and should use JJ's energy off the bench. Hardaway won't provide that same energy off the bench. JJ is also more versatile off the bench since he can play both swing positions. Penny can't play SF.

It doesn't matter who starts, both are getting the same amount of PT anyway. The quarters are equally important. It's not like the first quarter (when Penny starts) is more important than the 2nd quarter (when JJ comes off the bench). Only 7 players on the Suns played more than 1000 minutes, and JJ was one of 4 to play 2000 minutes, so it's not like Penny is holding him back from significant playing time.


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