# Would the Suns be better with Gasol instead of Amare?



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

It's not that far fetched a question.

Amare is averaging 25 ppg because the Suns play very uptempo. I think Gasol could average a similar amount in the Suns system.

Gasol is a better rebounder than Amare. Amare was a slightly above average rebounder at PF, and completely average at center.

Gasol is a better defensive player than Amare.

Gasol is a better passer than Amare.

Gasol is a slightly better shooter than Amare (Amare has come a long way with the open mid-range shot, but Gasol has a bit more range and a faster trigger).

Gasol has more moves in the post than Amare. That matters come playoff time when the Spurs force Phoenix into the halfcourt game.

I feel Gasol is one of the most underrated players in the league, because he plays for the Grizzlies and gets no exposure (and Hubie only used him 30 mpg). Amare on the other hand plays for the most exciting team in the league.

So what do you think?


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Gasol is one of the more underrated players in the league, no doubt, but Amare is the most relentless running big since a prime Karl Malone and a more dominant force inside, and that is exactly what this team needs offensively.

You can basically go through his game-by-game log and see that in the "grind it out" games (usually when Phoenix scores less than 100 pts) he's been big almost every time, the only real exception being the back-to-back games against the Pistons and Grizzlies when Nash was out and he struggled. He's also been tremendous against the Spurs and Wolves every time this year, pretty much the only two Western teams that have any chance of controlling tempo.

Not to mention that Amare hasn't planed out yet. Gasol might be almost an equally good fit as of right now because of the boosts he would bring defensively and on the glass (even though he is far from a dominant rebounder), but beyond this year I don't think it's close.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

I don't know if Pau Gasol could fit in the running style of the Suns. He ain't that athletic.


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## deannahum (Aug 7, 2003)

if Gasol comes to Phoenix he'll avrage 8.5 rpg as well because of great rebounders like Marion and Q... JJ is another rebounding guard...


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> if Gasol comes to Phoenix he'll avrage 8.5 rpg as well because of great rebounders like Marion and Q... JJ is another rebounding guard...


Actually the Suns are a poor rebounding team.

Going by the numbers at 82games.com

There are 8 players on the Jazz with a Reb Rating higher than 15, 5 over 20, 3 over 25, and 1 over 30.

M Okur: 31.4
C Boozer: 28.7
C Borchardt: 27.2
K Humphries: 22.2
A Kirilenko: 21.7
M Harpring: 19.8
J Collins: 18.5
K Snyder: 16.3

There are only 6 on the Suns over 15, and two of those players have barely played (Voskuhl and Outlaw).
S Marion	26.4
J Voskuhl	26.0
B Outlaw	23.9
A Stoudemire	22.5
S Hunter	20.2
Q Richardson 15.9

Gasol right now is at 25.3. To say that he would lose rebounds (because he plays with who, Shawn Marion?) is like saying that Charles Barkley would lose rebounds for playing with Steven Hunter. If anything, Gasol would be the one losing rebounds playing with the Grizzlies, who are a much better rebounding team than the Suns.

Joe Johnson is only 13.2, he isn't a great rebounding guard. He is average for a SG, and below average for a SF. He's as good at rebounding as the inept Tim Thomas (13.7), and worse than Trevor Ariza (17.0). There's a reason why the Knicks grabbed 23 offensive boards against the Suns (to the Suns 35 defensive boards). They have three guys rated 28 or higher, and Ariza would be the 4th best regular on the Suns.

The Suns, a good rebounding team? That's a good one. It's scary to think that if they could grab more rebounds, they would be even better offensively due to more fastbreak opportunities/possessions.


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## The Main Man (Aug 10, 2004)

Gasol would average atleast 4 points less in the Suns system. Amare has taken 150 more free throw attempts than Gasol this season, and is actually a better jump shooter than Gasol as well.

I don't see how much better he would be than Amare on the boards either.


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

NO WAY MAN! 


Amare --> All-Star

Gasol --> no All-Star


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

Gasol is one of the most UNDERRATED in this league IMO... and i think he'd do great with the suns... maybe even become an all-star but as much as i hate to admit it... he is no amare... amare is a beast... he's already better than gasol...


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

buahahahhahahhaha

Gasol -> LOL

Gasol wouldn't average more rebounds because he would have to run the floor a lot more.

The Suns are a poor rebounding team because they are a fastbreak team. That almost always goes hand in hand.

Amare is better than Gasol at ummm everything.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> buahahahhahahhaha
> 
> Gasol -> LOL
> ...


:laugh: Agree


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> The Suns are a poor rebounding team because they are a fastbreak team. That almost always goes hand in hand.


Uh, no. The Nets Finals teams were excellent rebounding teams. Fastbreaks start with rebounds. Rebounds lead to outlet passes to your point guard. I would think you guys know from watching Nash that a pass can travel farther and faster than any one player can run.

Furthermore, Marion is rebounding BETTER than he was last year, while Amare is about the same. Q-Rich is rebounding less on the offensive glass, but that's because he's leading the league in 3's attempted.

Let's look at the rebound ratings of the 02-03 Nets for a second.
Mutombo: 27.4
Martin: 23.2
Williams: 19.3
Scalabrine: 19.1
Collins: 18.6
Rogers: 18.0
Jefferson: 16.8
Kidd: 15.7
Kittles: 12.3
Harris: 11.0
Johnson: 8.7

Take away Mutombo, and the Nets still have 7 regulars over 15, compared to the 4 Suns regulars over 15 (Marion, Stoudemire, Hunter, Richardson).

The Nets consistently outrebounded their opponents.
The Suns consistently get outrebounded.

There's more to rebounds than cumulative numbers. Marion grabs 11 rebounds, but opposing PFs grab just as much against the Suns. The Suns grab 43 rebounds per game, 5th most in the league. However their opponents grab 46 rebounds per game, 3rd most in the league. The Suns have the 3rd worst rebound differential in the league at -2.97. The only teams worse are Golden State and Toronto.

Utah on the other hand only grabs 40 rebounds per game. But since their opponents only grab 37, they have the 2nd best rebound differential in the league (behind Detroit and ahead of San Antonio).

There are only 77 rebounds in Jazz games, compared to 89 in Suns games. Obviously this is due to the Suns having more possessions, by taking quicker shots. Rebounds are not the only stat manufactured by possessions. Points are too. Amare would not average 25 on any other team in the league. The Spurs average 12 fewer points than the Suns, but they still have the best point differential in the league (Phoenix is 2nd)

Amare is averaging 25.7 ppg on a 109 ppg team.
Duncan is averaging 21.6 ppg on a 97 ppg team.
Gasol is averaging 18.9 ppg on a 94 ppg team.

It should be obvious how pace factors in here.



> Amare has taken 150 more free throw attempts than Gasol this season


Amare has also played about 300 more minutes than Gasol (and also taken about 200 more FGA). Since Gasol is a better FT shooter at 75% (to Amare's 70%) Amare is only averaging one more FTM per 48 mins than Gasol, and you can attribute that extra make to the faster pace and extra possessions.

Gasol takes 13.2 FGA
Amare takes 16.4 FGA
Duncan takes 16.9 FGA

If Gasol were on the Suns, you could tack on about 4.5 more ppg. He's average around 23.

If Duncan were on the Suns, he'd probably take 19 FGA and average at least 27 ppg. And the Suns would probably be aiming for 72 wins.

I'm not trying to make Gasol out to be vastly better than Amare, merely that they're a lot more equal than people are willing to admit. I made this topic on both teams' boards to sort of gauge reactions to the argument.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> 
> Amare is better than Gasol at ummm everything.


H O M E R


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

The stats may be similar but they both play very different styles of post offensive.

Amare is pure power and as a defender you want to get him to shoot instead of him going to the net and dunking on you.

Pau is more finesse and can hit that midranger and when he goes in the post he isnt looking to dunk but just to spin around and get an easy shot.

So in my opionion Amare would be better cause with a lineup of Pau, Marion, JJ, Qrich and Nash, that is an extremly Perimiter team, and with Amare that gives them somone they can give the ball in the post to, who will look to get to the net and draw fouls


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DwyaneWade4MVP</b>!
> NO WAY MAN!
> 
> 
> ...


Both will be All-Stars. How is Pau not an All-Star talent? Don't watch the Grizzlies much, I guess.



> Amare is better than Gasol at ummm everything.


Amare is more phsyical than Pau, more athletic, and definitley more in-your-face. Amare isn't better than Pau at everything. Don't kid yourself.

EDIT: To answer the question, Amare is much better for the Suns than Pau. Pau does not run the floor like Amare and Pau is not as athletic or as in-your-face as Amare. There is no player better at Amare's position that would fill the role Amare plays for the Suns better.


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

I like how this vote turned out:

15 votes Amare
2 votes Pau!


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DwyaneWade4MVP</b>!
> I like how this vote turned out:
> 
> 15 votes Amare
> 2 votes Pau!


Can you argue with the results? The Suns can't get anyone better for their system at Amare's position than Amare himself. Very few big men in the League, if any, run the floor like he does. The guy is freakishly athletic and is so fun to watch.

Both he and Pau will be All-Stars.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> Amare is averaging 25.7 ppg on a 109 ppg team.
> Duncan is averaging 21.6 ppg on a 97 ppg team.
> ...


you can't just take numbers and extrapolate hypothetical numbers and claim that it's a mathmatic probability like that. you have to factor in physical realities. are either gasol or duncan gonna get up and down the court like amare? no way in hell. they just aren't gonna get the shots that amare gets b/c they can't run like him. your argument holds some, but very little, water.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

What's funny is that if the Suns didn't run as much Amare would likely get a lot more touches and scoring opportunities since he is by far their best option in the half court.

He'd also probably grab more rebounds if he wasn't looking to get out on the break and beat the other big guys down the court.

His FG% would likely go down but at the moment it's just over the top considering he takes quite a lot of midrange Js as well unlike Shaq.


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## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

Gasol has been in the league longer than Amare and had more experience before being drafted. Amare is pretty awsome right now, but wait a few years and then look out.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Can you argue with the results? The


The results are to be expected. I posted this on the Suns board. Amare is leading 18-5.

It's 5-5 on the Memphis board.

I wouldn't hold poll numbers as "proof" either. I remember there was a poll for the greatest Buck of all-time, and Oscar Robertson won despite playing 4 years at the end of his career as the second option.... to MVP Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

All the poll shows is how voting went. Not everybody puts the same amount of thought into their vote, many vote on gut.


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