# REPORT: Davis going to Bulls



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Rogers Sportsnet in Toronto is reporting that the Raptors will deal Antonio Davis and Morris Peterson to the Chicago Bulls in return for Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall.


----------



## garnett (May 13, 2003)

i dont know if i like this trade anymore


----------



## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOT DONYELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Rogers Sportsnet in Toronto is reporting that the Raptors will deal Antonio Davis and Morris Peterson to the Chicago Bulls in return for Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall.

*Raptors GM Glen Grunwald and Bulls GM Jim Paxton will meet later tonight to complete the trade.*


----------



## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Jerome Williams made the deal for the Bulls. Without JYD, they get hosed.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I don't understand Toronto's thinking if yesterday's deals were really in play.

I can see them trading AD or J. Williams, but not both, unless they were getting Curry or Chandler from us. It'd leave them with a gaping hole at C and no defensive minded PF to go along with Marshall.

This deal is a steal for Toronto.

In JWilliams and Marshall, they're strong up front. With Marshall, Rose, and Carter, they've got plenty of scoring. They're still going to be one of the top defensive teams.

The Bulls get a lightweight replacement for Rose and a defensive minded PF/C who can log big minutes.

There is a winner and loser in this deal, and Toronto is the clearcut winner.


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Do they Bulls EVER make good trades?
I know I am exxaterating

But Jesus, stop making bad trades


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I was quite surprised when I saw that the Bulls won't also acquiring Jerome Williams and/or Alvin Williams. 

As a Raptors fan, I *love* this trade, and hopefully we won't have to add any more players in order for Jim Paxton to be satisfied.


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Does donyell start for toronto? or would jerome williams? or bosh? what would the lineups be for both teams???


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Rose just needs to go IMHO. 

That deal does give Fizer and Crawford the opportunity to win a new contract with the Bulls in the second half of the year.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

This trade doesn't work under the cap... thank god.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Just looked at his stats for the year, AD has falled off the cliff. Yikes.......

At least other teams will be offering their trash for Rose too, so Pax can figure out what his options are.


----------



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Raptors have to add some more money to make this trade work.


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> This trade doesn't work under the cap... thank god.


Thats the base trade Mikedc. Minor players to be added to either side.


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> Rose just needs to go IMHO.
> 
> That deal does give Fizer and Crawford the opportunity to win a new contract with the Bulls in the second half of the year.


Absolutely. Hinrich, Crawford, Peterson, Chandler and Curry...put 'em on the floor and don't mess with the starting lineup anymore.

Pippen, Gill, Robinson, Fizer and Davis form one hell of a second unit.

But its that first group that has to gell. So lets get started. Let them play together, watch the chemistry develop and good things will follow (eg: Denver).


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

I'd rather have it 

Antonio Davis
Jerome Williams
Mo Peete

For 

Rose
Marshall

I really don't like to see Marshall go... he could shoot the 3 and rebound well. I think he will do really really well in Toronto. 

If Jerome Williams is added.... it would make it better.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Future</b>!
> I'd rather have it
> 
> Antonio Davis
> ...


Rose and Marshall for JYD, Davis and mo pete is very close in salary. In fact it works. Try it. 

If I was John, I don't do this trade without JYD. No AW.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats the base trade Mikedc. Minor players to be added to either side.


Aside from JYD, who it doesn't make sense for the Raps to trade, there's no one else I want. 

I'm not sure it's a fair trade even if we're getting JYD though :|


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

BTW, just checked and as it stands Rose and Marshall for Davis and Peterson doesn't comply with the CBA's cap guidelines. Toronto would have to add someone like Alvin, Jerome or Lamond to make it work salary-wise.


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

The base trade is Antonio Davis and Morris Peterson to the Bulls for Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall. However, the Raptors will have to add one or two players to even out the saleries. 

In order to do this the Raptors could add in Michael Bradley and Chris Jeffries to the deal, which would then make everything even out.

*SCENARIO #1:*

To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Michael Bradley, Chris Jeffries.

To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.


Another scenario is that the Raptors just add one player, in this case Alvin Williams. I doubt that this scenario will happen because the Bulls do not want a large contract player in Alvin who is coming off of major surgery and is still with uncertain health.

*SCENARIO #2:*

To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Alvin Williams.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.


The Raptors could also add in Micahel Curry.

*SCENARIO #3:*

To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Michael Curry.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.


................or even Lamond Murray.

*SCENARIO #4:*

To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Lamond Murray.

To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.


Other possibilites include taking out Alvin Williams out of Scenario #2 and putting in Jerome Williams. Another possibility is taking out either Michael Bradley or Chris Jeffries from Scenario #1 and putting in Jerome Moiso in one of their places.

There is alot of choices for Jim Paxton to choose from, and when its all said and done it could be any of those.


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> BTW, just checked and as it stands Rose and Marshall for Davis and Peterson doesn't comply with the CBA's cap guidelines. Toronto would have to add someone like Alvin, Jerome or Lamond to make it work salary-wise.


LOL I was just posting about that. :laugh:


----------



## BSchmaranz (May 26, 2003)

I wouldn't mind having Murray, Bulls need another consistant outside shooter.

By the way, it's JOHN Paxson, Jim is his brother (GM in Cleveland)


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Aside from JYD, who it doesn't make sense for the Raps to trade, there's no one else I want.
> ...


I am with you on that!! I also agree with BCH, JYD is the only player I feel good about in this trade.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

i dont see pax taking jeffries and Bradley, nor Curry.....

They have a red light with AW. I think that is what held up the trade yesterday. That and the fact that Toronto wanted Marshall.


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> i dont see pax taking jeffries and Bradley, nor Curry.....
> 
> They have a red light with AW. I think that is what held up the trade yesterday. That and the fact that Toronto wanted Marshall.


Does anybody have any clue what time today the meeting is


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-cavaliers-lineup&prov=ap&type=lgns

Kapono replaces Miles, Davis acknowledges trade rumors

Guard Ricky Davis, the subject of recent trade rumors involving Chicago guard Jalen Rose going to Toronto, was in the starting lineup for the Cavaliers. 

Davis, whose 15.2 scoring average entering Saturday's game was second on the Cavaliers to LeBron James, acknowledged hearing his name also mentioned in potential deals with Indiana or Portland. 

``I've just been hearing it around everywhere, really,'' Davis said. ``It makes you think it's true when you hear it everywhere.''


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

*1.*
To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Michael Bradley/Jerome Moiso, Chris Jeffries/Jerome Moiso.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.

Has a good chance to happen. Both Peterson and Jeffries are possible future start, and Bradley has a nice touch both inside and outside. Jerome Moiso could also replace one of those in this trade. Very good chance to happen.


*2.*
To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Alvin Williams.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.

The Bulls supposedly don't want this because of Alvin's recent suregires and health problems to his legs. Very slim chance to happen, unless Paxton changes his mind and wants Alvin.

*3.*
To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Michael Curry.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.

A good trade for Paxton, however Raptor's coach is high on Curry and might not want to let him go, especially since he will be the only vocal leader after Davis leaves. Trade has a chance to happen.


*4.*
To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Lamond Murray.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.

Probably the best choice for the Bulls, but the Raptors are very unlikely to give Lamond up, especially with his recent great performaces. Very slim to happen.


*5.*
To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Jerome Williams.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.

Bulls would also love this one, however the Raptors ownership also loves JWill, and is very very unlikely to give him up. Very slim to happen.


With all of this said the trade that makes sence for both teams is this:

To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Michael Bradley/Jerome Moiso, Chris Jeffries/Jerome Moiso.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.


If Jim Paxton wants to take a chance on Alvin Williams, and feels the need for another point guard then this one will happen:

To Chicago: Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Alvin Williams.
To Toronto: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall.



The other deals have a very slim chance of happening.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Miles replaced by Kapono?

Miles ha snothing to do with anything correct?

It seems like we're always trying to get Miles on our team, but I thought that was just a Krause fantasy... I'm so confused...


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I don't think the Bulls want to cut anyone to take on additional filler players.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> Miles replaced by Kapono?
> 
> Miles ha snothing to do with anything correct?
> ...


That was the headline. The meat of the article hiints at a 3-way deal with Cleveland, Chicago, and Toronto, including Rickey Davis and Jalen Rose.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*If this trade goes through*

Current Depth Chart:
1- Pip, Hinrich
2- Gill, Crawford
3- Rose, ERob
4- Chandler, Marshall, Fizer
5- Curry, Blount

New Depth Chart:
1- Pip, Hinrich
2- Gill, Crawford
3- Peterson, ERob
4- Chandler, JYD, Fizer
5- Curry, AD, Blount

My preferred ordering:
* First, I would move Chandler to the IR until he was healthy. If necessary, the same with Fizer.
* Second, I'd build my opening/closing lineup to play a halfcourt game with well-defined roles. Pip, JYD, and AD provide defense and experience and allow Jamal and Eddy to be offensive focal points. Using JYD at the 3 hurts our offense, but gives us a tenacious defender who, I think, is usually quick enough to guard most wings. Situationally, of course, things will vary. In order to limit Pip's minutes, we'll want to insert Kirk, Mo, or ERob earlier.

1- Pip
2- Crawford
3- JYD
4- AD
5- Curry

My preferred backup lineup is an all-out effort to push the ball and score:
1- Hinrich
2- MoPete
3- ERob
4- Fizer
5- Blount

Aside from Blount, who'll play the garbage man role, these guys can all score... it should be fun to watch.

When Tyson comes back, Blount falls out of the rotation and depending on where we're at, we need to take another stab at playing Curry and Chandler together. Right now though, it's kind of iffy looking, but the obvious move would be to start Tyson and put AD at the backup 5 spot.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> i dont see pax taking jeffries and Bradley, nor Curry.....
> 
> They have a red light with AW. I think that is what held up the trade yesterday. That and the fact that Toronto wanted Marshall.


I agree. If we take back Jeffries and Bradley I'm gonna be unhappy.


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: If this trade goes through*



> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> Current Depth Chart:
> 1- Pip, Hinrich
> 2- Gill, Crawford
> ...



I am not sure if you've been reading anything at all but look at the scenarios again. The Bulls will *not* be getting Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Alvin Williams, and Jerome Willams.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*ad*

Its time for Jalen to go away. Bring on AD and the expiring contract of Mo Pete. Its sad to see yell go, but its the price you gotta pay.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: If this trade goes through*



> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure if you've been reading anything at all but look at the scenarios again. The Bulls will *not* be getting Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson, Alvin Williams, and Jerome Willams.


Yeah, I've read your scenarios, I just think they suck and the Bulls aren't going to do them.

If they give up Rose and Marshall, they need to get JYD back.

And were you reading my post? My lineup was based on Rose+Marshall for AD, JYD, and MoPete. I don't want Alvin either.


----------



## Illstate2 (Nov 11, 2003)

*Re: If this trade goes through*



> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> My preferred backup lineup is an all-out effort to push the ball and score:
> 1- Hinrich
> ...


I really don't think this lineup would score a whole lot.
Hinrich hasn't shot very well yet, MoPete hasn't shot well this season or last, and was really never a better than average shooter. Fizer, if he can regain form can score. ERob will only be able to score if the Bulls can get into a lot of transition situations, and I'm not sure that lineup will be able to rebound or force enough turnovers to make that happen.


----------



## Bullsmaniac (Jun 17, 2002)

Giving up Donyell and not getting JYD is a dumb move by PAX!!! DUMB,DUMB, DUMB!!!


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullsmaniac</b>!
> Giving up Donyell and not getting JYD is a dumb move by PAX!!! DUMB,DUMB, DUMB!!!


I agree, and yet I can find a way to disagree...

if we were to have gotten JYD (or maybe we still will)

we'll still have a PF mess with Chandler, JYD and Fizer right?

I guess it's fine to just assume UNCLOG the PF situation by doing this right?


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*JYD quesiton*



> Originally posted by <b>Bullsmaniac</b>!
> Giving up Donyell and not getting JYD is a dumb move by PAX!!! DUMB,DUMB, DUMB!!!


I must admit, I've not seen much of the JYD. He's primaraly a defensive stopper from what I've read. A hustle guy. 

He is like Bruce Bowen? Artest without the offense? What's he like?

And, is he really worth 5.7 million a year (average) until 2007?


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: JYD quesiton*



> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> I must admit, I've not seen much of the JYD. He's primaraly a defensive stopper from what I've read. A hustle guy.
> ...


he is like the PF-C version of a bruce bowen type...

Bowen is a defensive guy on SG/SF JYD can guard guys that play SF/PF/C

he reminds me a little of rodman


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

JYD is like a more physical, bigger, a touch slower, Bo Outlaw type of player.

I think Antonio Davis will be a starter on the Bulls very quickly. I don't think it would take much for Cartwright to put Davis as a starter over either Curry or Chandler.

What I think our starting lineup will be:
Pippen
Gill
MoP
Chandler
Antonio Davis

Maybe not initially, but if we stick with BC as head coach, that's the lineup that will end up playing.

Not sure where the scoring is going to come from.

LOTTERY HERE WE COME!!!

This is called: Throwing in the towel. Unless Pax has a major move up his sleeves to get a couple superstars for Crawford and Curry.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: JYD quesiton*



> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> he is like the PF-C version of a bruce bowen type...
> ...


Sweet. Then I'd take him. 

Would you want him if it means we'd also have to take on Alvin Williams and his contract?


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

The Raptors will not trade Jerome Williams in the deal we've talked about. They will only do so if the Bulls add another player, such as Marcus Fizer.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (4.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 27.5 minutes) 
SF Linton Johnson (0.7 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 4.0 minutes) 
Chicago receives: PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -6.7 ppg, +0.2 rpg, and -2.3 apg. 

Toronto trades: PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Toronto receives: SF Eddie Robinson (4.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 13 games) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 13 games) 
SF Linton Johnson (0.7 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 3 games) 
Change in team outlook: +6.7 ppg, -0.2 rpg, and +2.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> The Raptors will not trade Jerome Williams in the deal we've talked about. They will only do so if the Bulls add another player, such as Marcus Fizer.


no offense, but I take everything you post with a grain of salt because I've seen you post false "reports" all over these boards over the last 2 days... you are not Toronto's GM, and until you show some kind of validity in what you post I don't think you have the right to say what the prerequisites are for a certain player to be traded, alright?


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

So, the way I see it is this.

In order to get rid of the Rose contract and attitude, we have to give up Marshall and take on the bad contract of Davis.

If we want the JYD as well, we have to give up Fizer, and maybe take on the bad contract of Alvin Williams.

So, is Fizer worth more than the pluses of the JYD (who also has a long term deal) and the minuses of A WIlliams (long term deal, shooting 20% for some reason).

Given that this team will need scoring with Marshall and Rose gone, and the long, long contract of the JYD I'm leaning towards keeping Fizer...but I'm not certain yet.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (4.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes)
> SF Donyell Marshall (9.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 27.5 minutes)
> SF Linton Johnson (0.7 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 4.0 minutes)
> ...


This might work as well, if Toronto wanted to do it. But, I have a strong feeling that this is happening because Pax wants Rose gone.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> This might work as well, if Toronto wanted to do it. But, I have a strong feeling that this is happening because Pax wants Rose gone.


Are you a mindreader? How do you know that Pax wants Rose gone?

I've seen where Paxson called Rose and said he wasn't going to be traded (to Toronto) and where Cartwright told Rose the trade rumors were bogus.

If there are talks between Toronto and Chicago, it may be for a deal like I just posted.

Maybe Paxson is working on a deal for Vince Carter.

Neither of us are a fly on the wall in the room where the talks are going on. If they're going on at all.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you a mindreader? How do you know that Pax wants Rose gone?
> ...


Pigs could fly, too. But I don't see it anymore likely that the Bulls take on AD's contract and keep Rose's.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Add Michael Curry's expiring salary makes the aforementioned 2 for 2 work out under CBA.

MCurry/MoPete/Davis

for

Marshall/Rose
TRADE ACCEPTED

Assuming Chicago picks up the 1 year tender to MoPete, the Bulls save <b>24 million dollars</b> over the length of Jalen/Donyell's contracts.


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> Are you a mindreader? How do you know that Pax wants Rose gone?
> 
> ...


Um, Yeah there working on a deal for Vince Carter:laugh: 

Vince is untouchable, and no one on the Bulls roster would be able to land him.

It's kind of obvious that if a trade is going down, the two main pieces are going to be Rose and Davis, you don't have to be a mind reader for that.

The Raptors are looking for offense, and we're trading our starting center for players that would most likely come off the bench.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> Add Michael Curry's expiring salary makes the aforementioned 2 for 2 work out under CBA.
> 
> MCurry/MoPete/Davis
> ...


Slasher has been telling us this. We lose on the this trade if it happens, unless Pax has another trade lined up after this one. No JYD, no trade, imo.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Pigs could fly, too. But I don't see it anymore likely that the Bulls take on AD's contract and keep Rose's.


For starters, Paxson has indicated a desire to get us some defense and rebounding help at the 4/5. Not a desire to dump contracts.

Second, I can think of two teams that would love to take AD and his contract off our hands if we had him. And that would put together a better lineup for us that has a chance to win.

There's a binary choice here:

1) Win. Get better players.
2) Lose. Dump contracts.

I think #1 is the stated objective, and the season is far from over.


----------



## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

Let the record reflect that, IF this trade is for real, it will be one of the worst trades in Bulls history. The only possible reason that I can think of is that the Bulls are so desparate to get rid of Jalen's long term contract. And you don't get rid of a player of Jalen's caliber for a couple of average players. Getting rid of Rose's contract and picking up AD's is a virtual wash. Plus when both are playing well, Rose's numbers outshine AD's by a long shot. Not to mention that in the right system (i.e. a non-Cartright system), Jalen makes everyone around him better. Then when you throw Yell into the mix, it's becomes infinitely worse. 

I didn't complain about the Artest/Miller/Mercer/Ollie trade for Rose/Best. I understool the logic in trading Brand for the rights to Chandler. But as hard as I try, I don't see why Paxson would make this trade. Which is why, I think it's bogus.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Slasher has been telling us this. We lose on the this trade if it happens, unless Pax has another trade lined up after this one. No JYD, no trade, imo.


Why is everyone so pumped about JYD? I like his game and energy. But he reminds me a lot of a shorter Tyson Chandler. To get JYD included, we'll likely have to add the albatros contract of Alvin Williams. A no-no... We're talking about a 6pt/10 rebound guy whose owed 25M over the next 4 seasons through 2007/2008.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

superdave is right, JYD isn't as great as people are saying.

he's a great perimeter defender, struggles alot on post defense, is a great hustler and rebounder, no offensive game, really.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MichaelOFAZ</b>!
> Let the record reflect that, IF this trade is for real, it will be one of the worst trades in Bulls history. The only possible reason that I can think of is that the Bulls are so desparate to get rid of Jalen's long term contract. And you don't get rid of a player of Jalen's caliber for a couple of average players. Getting rid of Rose's contract and picking up AD's is a virtual wash. Plus when both are playing well, Rose's numbers outshine AD's by a long shot. Not to mention that in the right system (i.e. a non-Cartright system), Jalen makes everyone around him better. Then when you throw Yell into the mix, it's becomes infinitely worse.
> 
> I didn't complain about the Artest/Miller/Mercer/Ollie trade for Rose/Best. I understool the logic in trading Brand for the rights to Chandler. But as hard as I try, I don't see why Paxson would make this trade. Which is why, I think it's bogus.


I think you're right.

Here's an observation.

AD and Rose were teammates on a team that went to the finals. A reunion?


----------



## Bigballershotcaller (Apr 25, 2003)

Let me just start off by saying that AW is strongly unappreciated on these boards the dude has been playing with crap ankles for well over 3 years now and has come up big many times he isn't like these little cry baby superstars who get a slight pulled groin and are out for a couple of weeks he has the heart of a warrior kinda like AI in that way.Though the bulls don't need him considering u guys are pretty set at pg with crawford,hinrich and jay will when he comes back unless u guys are thinking about dealing crawford.Believe me alvin williams at 80 percent plays better than most nba point guards at 100 percent and the kevin ollie comparisons are just brutal


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you a mindreader? How do you know that Pax wants Rose gone?
> ...



No, I'm not a mind reader. 

But, from the news articles, and, more importantly hearing Pax talk on the radio the last two years, its seems that he's not fond of his game.

I didn't discount your deal... I said it might work... I just am getting the impression from the information available that Pax is not a Rose fan. That, and Pax is a new GM and wants to put his own "imprint" on the team... and its going to be very tough with Jalen Rose (and his contract) around.

I'm not saying I know... that's just my impression.


----------



## Bigballershotcaller (Apr 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you a mindreader? How do you know that Pax wants Rose gone?
> ...


ya VC sure how about curry,chandler,crawford and two firsts:grinning: vc isn't going anywhere grunwald would be lynched if we weren't geeting an iverson,mcgrady type back


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's been far more to indicate Paxson (and Cartwright) are unhappy with Crawford. Think about that for a bit and consider the following.

1) Fizer comes off IR way before any of us expected it. It was even a surprise to Cartwright when it happened.
2) Supposedly Alvin Williams was in the deal and *****ed it because of his injury. Why do we add yet another point to Hinrich, Pippen, and Crawford? On the other hand, Williams may well be the prototype PG that Cartwright and Paxson have talked about - pass first, good defense, protects the ball, gets teammates involved in the game, etc. I'll add that he comes from an organization that's won more games in a season than the Bulls have won in 2 or 3. 
3) The trade is now supposed to be down to a 2-for-2.
4) Dallas wants AD, and has more to offer. Would you rather have Rose or, say, Finley, for AD if you were Toronto?
5) Miami would be dynamite with a player like AD, and they're supposedly willing to part with Jones and Butler. Would you rather have Rose or Jones+Butler?
6) some more points, but better expressed below.

Now, if Toronto wants some more offense, they might be looking at Crawford and Fizer (or Marshall). Crawford replaces AWill in their lineup, and Fizer (or Marshall) brings much needed scoring.

7) Crawford+Fizer has been a pair we've been rumored to have offered for ver two years.
8) If I were the Bulls and wanted to shop Crawford, I'd have played him just like they did in LA. Raise his trade value a little.
9) Toronto is dead last in scoring as a team at 77.5 points per game.
10) Paxson told Rose he's not going to Toronto.
11) Cartwright called the trade rumors "garbage" and told Rose to not be distracted by them.

Here's some quotes:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=ap-raptors-bullstradetalk&prov=ap&type=lgns

The teams planned to speak again Saturday, the source said, and were likely to focus on a two-for-two deal. Rose, however, said he had been assured by Bulls vice president John Paxson that he would not be dealt to Toronto. 

Bulls coach Bill Cartwright said he talked to Rose about the rumors and told him: ``Don't you dare get distracted with any of this garbage that's going on.'' 

Marshall said he didn't receive a call from Paxson and didn't know anything about a possible deal. 

``The first thing I heard about that rumor was when I landed,'' said Toronto coach Kevin O'Neill, whose team arrived Friday evening for a Saturday afternoon game in New Jersey against the Nets. 

``I live for the city of Toronto,'' said Williams, whose role has been reduced with the arrival of first-round draft pick Chris Bosh. ``I heard a few things, but I assume it's just rumors.''


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you a mindreader? How do you know that Pax wants Rose gone?
> ...


Mark Stein article on ESPN

"Davis, who flirted with signing with the Bulls as a free agent in the summer of 2001, would welcome a move to Chicago, where the family of Davis' wife resides. Another interior presence is not Chicago's greatest need, with youngsters Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler on the front line, *but Paxson seems eager to move Rose, whose clashes with coach Bill Cartwright recently cost Rose his spot in the starting lineup.*"

Here's a fly for you!


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBullz read the link I just posted in Chicagosports.

Paxson NEVER MADE the promise to Jalen to not trade him. Rather he said 'nothing is imminent'. Jalen is the focus, period.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lsmain,1,6584938.story?coll=cs-home-headlines


----------



## Kramer (Jul 5, 2002)

This appears to be the article Slasher is referring to. It doesn't make Pax sound quite as dumb... 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article.jsp?content=20031121_164928_4808

"Sources are telling Sportsnet that the Raptors also want forward Donyell Marshall, but the Bulls aren't so sure they want to give him up too."

"The Raptors had asked for Marcus Fizer, but that was immediately rejected by the Bulls."

"Raptors' point guard Alvin Williams will definfely not be traded because he is simply not healthy enough."


----------



## Chicago_Cow (Mar 5, 2003)

Here's a bone to chew on:

How about they add a first rounder and Curry to their proposed trade and we add in Lonny Baxter?


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kramer</b>!
> This appears to be the article Slasher is referring to. It doesn't make Pax sound quite as dumb...
> 
> http://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article.jsp?content=20031121_164928_4808
> ...


So the Bulls might not trade yell??? Thats good news. 

Said no to Fizer? Thats interesting. Unless Marshall was a go in the orginal deal. I can see why they said no to Fizer then.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I figure this is the best place to post this.

I'm actually fine with the Bulls trading Rose at this point. We can lose with him or lose without him. Letting him go to another team where he can be part of a winner for a change would be doing him a favor.

The issue I have is that I'm seeing names like Antawn Jamison and Ricky Davis as available and I know we could get back a quality player to replace him. But what I'm seeing is horrible - the newspapers have talked about us getting a bunch of end-of-the-bench role players who cannot possibly help us any more than Rose would.

I like Antonio Davis a lot. He solves our need for an inside presence. But what's the point if we're still losers? He's not a scorer of any kind, really, let alone having the ability to take over a game and help us win it (like Kobe did, or like Rose has done in many of our wins and even some of our losses). 

It would be wonderful to be in a situation where we were winning lots of games with Rose getting 10 minutes per game and we simply don't need him anymore. 

The problem is the reverse is true. We're losing, and there's no end in sight to it if we trade Rose for Davis. If we're going to lose, may as well go for the #1 lotto pick or free up salary cap space to try and land an FA. 

Getting Davis solves what appears to be a short term problem due to injuries to Fizer and Chandler. If those guys are healthy by the middle of the season, paying Davis top dollars is foolish, especially when you consider the length of his deal. Much sooner than later, he's going to be a very expensive replacement for Corie Blount (who actually does a decent enough job).

If we could get Rickey Davis and Antonio Davis, Paxson would be a genius. Otherwise, this deal is just a means to flush this season - AND SEVERAL MORE - down the toilet.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> There's been far more to indicate Paxson (and Cartwright) are unhappy with Crawford. Think about that for a bit and consider the following.
> ...


This seems to have little to do with the Rose trade, other than perhaps Fizer is involved in it. This in no way indicates that rose is not involved.




> 2) Supposedly Alvin Williams was in the deal and *****ed it because of his injury. Why do we add yet another point to Hinrich, Pippen, and Crawford? On the other hand, Williams may well be the prototype PG that Cartwright and Paxson have talked about - pass first, good defense, protects the ball, gets teammates involved in the game, etc. I'll add that he comes from an organization that's won more games in a season than the Bulls have won in 2 or 3.


Crawford will be the starting 2. Problem solved.



> 3) The trade is now supposed to be down to a 2-for-2.


and every report says that one of those 2 is rose.



> 4) Dallas wants AD, and has more to offer. Would you rather have Rose or, say, Finley, for AD if you were Toronto?


its a toss up. but, you are forgetting its rose and marshall, not just rose. i think if its rose and marshall its a no-brainer. 



> 5) Miami would be dynamite with a player like AD, and they're supposedly willing to part with Jones and Butler. Would you rather have Rose or Jones+Butler?


that was just one paragraph from insider. not the rampant speculation that is going on right now. with this much attention/press, there seems little doubt that serious talks are underway involving rose and davis. i would rather have jones and butler... but i've seen nothing to say these two teams are talking. also, you once again neglected to say that it is fact rose and marshall, not just rose.




> 6) some more points, but better expressed below.
> 
> Now, if Toronto wants some more offense, they might be looking at Crawford and Fizer (or Marshall). Crawford replaces AWill in their lineup, and Fizer (or Marshall) brings much needed scoring.


maybe... but that is not what is being reported by dozens of news agencies. crawford, the rainer beach wunderboy, is going nowhere.



> 7) Crawford+Fizer has been a pair we've been rumored to have offered for ver two years.


true, but its never been anywhere near this level. the only reason there have been more crawford rumors is that people want him more(younger, more upside, better contract, awesome skills). rose is tough to trade due to his age, contract and attitude.



> 8) If I were the Bulls and wanted to shop Crawford, I'd have played him just like they did in LA. Raise his trade value a little.


this i agree with. but, nothing seems to indicate that crawford is on the one on the block.



> 9) Toronto is dead last in scoring as a team at 77.5 points per game.


which is why they want to trade for rose and marshall.



> 10) Paxson told Rose he's not going to Toronto.


this does not seem to be true. AM-1000 was saying today that it was just rose talking. as did mark stein.



> 11) Cartwright called the trade rumors "garbage" and told Rose to not be distracted by them.


what do you expect him to say? play hard for a couple more days, then its off to the great white north?

Here's some quotes:



> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=ap-raptors-bullstradetalk&prov=ap&type=lgns
> 
> The teams planned to speak again Saturday, the source said, and were likely to focus on a two-for-two deal. Rose, however, said he had been assured by Bulls vice president John Paxson that he would not be dealt to Toronto.
> 
> ...


Your quotes are rose's comment about paxson telling him he won't be traded, which is already generally considered to be a lie. big bill telling rose to play hard (what else would you expect him to say). the toronto coach saying he's heard nothing (what else do you expect him to say). JYD saying he likes toronto (which i guess he does, but that is not at all relevant).

Just to add more info, this story broke yesterday on WGN. Dave Kaplan was Kevin O'Neils best man at his wedding. He's the man who broke the story. There are dozens of news agencies reporting this. I don't think its realistic to think that there are not at the very least serious talks going on.

Where there's smoke there's fire baby.

The Rose may have grown from concrete... but I wonder if it can survive up north?


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> I figure this is the best place to post this.
> 
> I'm actually fine with the Bulls trading Rose at this point. We can lose with him or lose without him. Letting him go to another team where he can be part of a winner for a change would be doing him a favor.
> ...


I honestly don't believe that anyone really wants to give up much for Rose. We are getting a bad contract (who does not need to shoot 20 times a game) and a decent young player.

We are not going to win the title this season. This team needs to develop the 3 Cs. There is little doubt about this. Bringing on a Davis or a Jamison does not help matters in this respect. No more big, long contracts for good but not great players! Please!

Jamal is ready. Its time to play.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> you once again neglected to say that it is fact rose and marshall, not just rose.


This is the way the deal is looking, according to superdave's posted link:


Chicago trades: PF Lonny Baxter (2.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.3 minutes) 
SF Jalen Rose (14.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.9 apg in 34.4 minutes) 
Chicago receives: SF Michael Bradley (14.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.9 apg in 34.4 minutes) 
SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -2.9 ppg, +5.1 rpg, and -2.0 apg. 

Toronto trades: SF Michael Bradley (14.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.9 apg in 34.4 minutes) 
SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Toronto receives: PF Lonny Baxter (2.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12 games) 
SF Jalen Rose (14.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.9 apg in 13 games) 
Change in team outlook: +2.9 ppg, -5.1 rpg, and +2.0 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

(It's not Rose and Marshall)


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> I honestly don't believe that anyone really wants to give up much for Rose. We are getting a bad contract (who does not need to shoot 20 times a game) and a decent young player.
> ...


Here's the problem I have with your reasoning.

Jamison and Rickey Davis do not play the positions that the 3Cs do.

Antonio Davis plays 35 minutes/game and earns top dollar to play both positions Curry and Chandler play. And for a long time to come. Exactly what you say you don't want: "big long contract for a good but not great player".


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> This is the way the deal is looking, according to superdave's posted link:
> ...



uhh... where does that article say that marshall is no longer involved?


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Here's the problem I have with your reasoning.
> ...


I should have added "that needs to shoot the ball 20 times a game and thinks he a superstar, when he's not."

Yes, I would like to be able to get rid of Rose without have to take on the Davis contract. Its the price we have to pay.

But, I think that Davis won't mind playing 25-30 in a backup role behind Chandler and Curry. There is no bling-bling to Antiono Davis. He's not worried that if he does not drop 20 that Nelly won't come to his games anymore. 

Maybe I'm wrong about this. But I just don't see Antonio Davis minding his role.


----------



## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Mark Stein article on ESPN
> ...


Here's an idea .. Why not get rid of Cartright? Why? Because Cartright is Paxson's buddy and Pax doesn't have the balls to fire his buddy. Which is why it was silly to hire Paxson in the first place with Cartright as the coach. They should have fired Cartright and then hired Paxson. Or simply hired a different GM altogther. In any event, no matter what trade goes down, who the Bulls sign in FA or pick up in the draft, the Bulls will be nothing more than a medicre team (at best) with Cartright as coach.


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Raptors GM Grunwald and Bulls GM Paxton will meet in a neutral city within the next 48 hours to finalize the trade. *Jalen Rose will be going to the Raptors along with Donyell Marshall or Eddie Robinson. In return the Bulls will get back one of the trades I talked about earlier in this thread.*


----------



## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> Raptors GM Grunwald and Bulls GM Paxton will meet in a neutral city within the next 48 hours to finalize the trade. *Jalen Rose will be going to the Raptors along with Donyell Marshall or Eddie Robinson. In return the Bulls will get back one of the trades I talked about earlier in this thread.*


Will you stop creating all these BS threads, and talking like these things are facts when only you seem to be hearing this stuff.

Are the voices in you heard telling you this?


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> Raptors GM Grunwald and Bulls GM Paxton will meet in a neutral city within the next 48 hours to finalize the trade. *Jalen Rose will be going to the Raptors along with Donyell Marshall or Eddie Robinson. In return the Bulls will get back one of the trades I talked about earlier in this thread.*


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lsmain,1,6584938.story?coll=cs-home-headlines



> "The problem with this mess and somebody leaking information from one side is it puts our players in a real uncomfortable position," Paxson said. "They have to answer questions that they shouldn't have to answer. My job is to make us better. Their job is to play. I feel badly that our players were put in a very uncomfortable position."


Is John Paxson talking about Slasher?


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lsmain,1,6584938.story?coll=cs-home-headlines
> ...


:laugh:


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> Is John Paxson talking about Slasher?


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

this just in, mysterious man found looking into the home of John Paxson while taking notes.

anyways, Bulls fans, any new news come up?


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

:rotf: Trick is here lol


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> :rotf: Trick is here lol




well, i'm trying to get as much info as i can.

lord knows where your _sources_ are coming from


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Just a reminder folks,

Trades must be approved by the league office to be made official. the league office is only open Mon-Fri, so even if the teams consumated a trade they still have to wait till the 24th before they can officially swap. 

What does this mean? Perhaps the trades are done. Both teams are just waiting on their announcements 'till the league office opens on Monday to finish the paperwork.


----------



## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

If this is true (Marshall+Rose for Davis and Mo Pete) we, Bulls fans, can say we have the dumbest coach and the dumbest GM in the NBA. Thats not a good combination, or yes, a good combination of Ping-Pong balls.

Please Pax, dont do it!!!

BTW: Every article says the Bulls (Or Paxson) are eager to trade Rose because he clashes with BC. Arent the Bulls going to can BC soon? So why dont we wait 3-4 more games, get someone like Docs Rivers, and see if Rose can turn it around? I see that in 1-2 weeks, neither Rose nor Cartwright will be defending the Bulls colours.

Man, I feel so bad right now. We are going to be in the lottery again!!!! 

As bad as it sounds, I hope we can get Ricky Davis. 

:sour:


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Doc Rivers is in contract with ABC as an NBA analyst until next summer. He cannot coach this season.


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Latest from ESPN:

Chicago and Toronto continued talks Saturday on a trade featuring Jalen Rose and Antonio Davis, league sources told ESPN.com, but have yet to finalize a deal.

Sources insist, however, that Bulls general manager John Paxson did not promise Rose that he would be staying in Chiago, as Rose said Friday in Los Angeles. If this trade does not collapse, Rose is certain to be the centerpiece.


The deal discussed most seriously Friday would have sent Rose and Donyell Marshall to Toronto in exchange for Davis and Alvin Williams. The Bulls decided to pull out of the swap, sources said, because of concerns over Williams' two ankle surgeries in the past two years and the guard's recent knee trouble.


ESPN.com has learned that a reconfigured deal would likely send Rose and Marshall in exchange for Davis, Morris Peterson, Michael Bradley and possibly one other Toronto player to meet salary-cap requirements.


Whether the trade is ultimately consummated depends on Chicago's determination to move Rose, who has clashed recently with Bulls coach Bill Cartwright, who is under pressure himself.


Davis is eager to relocate, with his wife's family based in Chicago, but another interior presence like Davis is not the Bulls' greatest need, given the presence of youngsters Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler already on the front line. For the trade to go through, then, Paxson would have to be convinced that the benefits of parting with Rose and his onerous contract outweigh the cost of giving up two of Chicago's more accomplished veterans.


That's because the acquisitions of Davis, Peterson and Bradley would not provide Chicago with much financial relief, which is generally the trade motivation for teams when they're not filling a clear-cut need. Davis has only two years left on his contract after this season, compared to Rose's three years at nearly $50 million after this season, but the other salaries involved won't lead to significant savings for the Bulls.


Toronto's motivation, meanwhile, is clear. Rose and Marshall represent two potential helpers for Vince Carter, whose presence has not prevented the anemic Raptors from scoring less than 80 points per game this season. Rose, though not a pure point guard, can also help the Raptors with their ball-handling and ball-distribution issues. And while Davis is the closest thing Toronto has to a legitimate center, it would still have Jerome Williams and fast-progressing rookie Chris Bosh to take Davis' minutes.


Yet taking on Rose would signal a major financial U-turn from the Raptors. For weeks it has been widely believed around the league that Toronto would not agree to any trade in which the Raptors were absorbing a sufficiently long-term salary commitment. Toronto's position, by all indications, has changed, given that the Raptors were pushing harder for the trade than the Bulls at the close of business Saturday.


----------



## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> For starters, Paxson has indicated a desire to get us some defense and rebounding help at the 4/5. Not a desire to dump contracts.
> ...


If it's a binary choice, shouldn't it be:

0) Win. Get better players.
1) Lose. Dump contracts.

 

I think the decision to get AD is a good one, my hope is that a change in team will help him get his game back on track. And he could do well mentoring our bigs, and pounding the smack out of Curry in practice so he gets use to pushing back. And like you said, there is a good chance that we can move AD if we really wanted to.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> Raptors GM Grunwald and Bulls GM Paxton will meet in a neutral city within the next 48 hours to finalize the trade. *Jalen Rose will be going to the Raptors along with Donyell Marshall or Eddie Robinson. In return the Bulls will get back one of the trades I talked about earlier in this thread.*


Thanks! Rose Marshall OR E-rob....Better be E-rob.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm sure all those with NBA League Pass will keep their eye on the Raps game at noon to see if anyone "important" is in street clothes.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> BTW: Every article says the Bulls (Or Paxson) are eager to trade Rose because he clashes with BC. Arent the Bulls going to can BC soon? So why dont we wait 3-4 more games, get someone like Docs Rivers, and see if Rose can turn it around? I see that in 1-2 weeks, neither Rose nor Cartwright will be defending the Bulls colours.


I think that the main driver of this is Paxson. Pax wants to get rid of Rose for the same reasons that Bill does not get along with Rose, IMO.


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> I think that the main driver of this is Paxson. Pax wants to get rid of Rose for the same reasons that Bill does not get along with Rose, IMO.


No, actually the Raptors are the main pushers for this trade to be done:

Yet taking on Rose would signal a major financial U-turn from the Raptors. For weeks it has been widely believed around the league that Toronto would not agree to any trade in which the Raptors were absorbing a sufficiently long-term salary commitment. Toronto's position, by all indications, has changed, given that the *Raptors were pushing harder for the trade than the Bulls* at the close of business Saturday.


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Im The One</b>!
> 
> 
> Will you stop creating all these BS threads, and talking like these things are facts when only you seem to be hearing this stuff.
> ...


Why are they BS threads? I hear a report, I post it here. I post the information, and how you take that information in is up to you. I am not here to ask you to believe me. Thats up to you.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> 
> 
> No, actually the Raptors are the main pushers for this trade to be done:
> ...


As well they should be, Rose and Marshall for AD, MoPete, and Bradley would be a tremendous deal for them. Basically they're getting two proven starters in their prime for an over the hill guy and two backups.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> 
> 
> No, actually the Raptors are the main pushers for this trade to be done:


Someone on the Bulls side has to be interested in making the trade, correct? Or is there some magical way that the Raptors can make a deal with the Bulls without the Bulls wanting to?


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Someone on the Bulls side has to be interested in making the trade, correct? Or is there some magical way that the Raptors can make a deal with the Bulls without the Bulls wanting to?


Hehe wouldn't that be a neat trick to know for any GM in the NBA. :laugh:


----------



## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

According to the Toronto Sun it's Jalen7Marshall for Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams


Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (14.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.9 apg in 34.4 minutes) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 27.5 minutes) 
Chicago receives: PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -10.6 ppg, +9.0 rpg, and -4.2 apg. 

Toronto trades: PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
Toronto receives: SF Jalen Rose (14.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.9 apg in 13 games) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 13 games) 

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Sports/2003/11/23/266199.html 

Sources yesterday suggested the trade talk between the Raptors and the Chicago Bulls has narrowed to a two-for-two scenario that would see Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall coming to Toronto for Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams. In any event, Rose and Davis are at the heart of the matter and the accesories are negotiable


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>unBULLievable</b>!
> According to the Toronto Sun it's Jalen7Marshall for Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams
> 
> 
> ...


That's quite a bit more acceptable to me. I'd like to get Peterson too, but I could live with this, I think.


----------



## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> That's quite a bit more acceptable to me. I'd like to get Peterson too, but I could live with this, I think.



Well do you try and negotiate Crawford for Mo Pete and a lottery proteced 1st round pick ?

Davis/JYD/Petersen and a lottery protected 1st round pick for Rose/Marshall/Crawford

If JYD is not in the deal then neither should Marshall and it's just a Rose and Baxter for Davis and Mo Pete


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

OK. That is better. I didnt like the Marshall/Rose for Davis mopete and bradley. I think if Marshall is in it, JYD needs to come to us.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably not. I think I'd prefer having Jamal to Mo Pete.

The way I see it, if Jamal is EVER going to be a success, it's going to take playing him next to a guy like ERob, JYD, or maybe Mo Pete. That is, a guy who can take on the tougher defensive assignment.

For me, trading off Rose opens a spot in the lineup for Crawford that we can't have now because of defensive problems. but if we trade both Rose and Jamal, who are we gonna have doing the perimeter scoring? Mo Pete and one of Gill, ERob, or JYD? Yikes... not one of those guys can create a shot for himself. We'd be hideous.


----------



## Wild Wild West (Jun 30, 2003)

I like the C. Blizzy projected lineups with a couple of reservations. It depends on BC being willing to pair Hinrich and Crawford, and Peterson is potetially a long term contributor, but not a starter on a championship contender, and third it may set back this year with Hinrich still learning and Crawford shifting roles. 

There appears to be little age advantage here at first but longer term there could be. Davis is very old but as he slows he should still be solid as a backup at two positions, and Peterson could be OK as a backup 2/3 for a number of years. Whether Peterson is good enough to be a good long term piece off the bench is debatable, but at least he should not be declining for several years and has two position versatility.

The other impact is shifting the draft and FA priorities. 2/3 remain priorities, but 5 is replaced by 1. If Williams returns successfully, he now has an opening for him. If we get lucky there, all of the draft FA activity can focus on the swing players.


----------



## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

If we trade Rose and Marshall, the Bulls need to get a SG/SF in return. I don't like the trade at all in any form, but if it involves Marshall and Rose, we need MoPete to be part of the deal.


----------



## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

The Bulls need D. I don't care who we trade as long as the defense significantly improves. Rose served his role here in Chicago, as he turned a terrible team into a below average one. There really is no "next step", Bulls fans will just have to show a little patience and let the youngsters develop. The Curry/Chandler/Crawford tandem is not experienced enough to make the playoffs this season. Next year will be, and damn sure better be a different story.


----------

