# Major Moves are In, Rank the Eastern Conference



## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

My Rankings


*Top Teams*
1. Chicago
2. Detriot
3. Miami
4. Clevland
5. New Jersey

I think most people can agree these are the top 5 teams. I really think our Bulls have pulled ahead of the Pistons, and that the Heat (Shaq) will pace themselves until the playoffs. Clevland hasn't added anything but Shannon Brown (who I like but...). New Jersey doesn't have the bigs to come out on top, didn't significantly improve roster (Love Williams, but Kidd was still stellar last season). Call me a homer if you like I really think the Bulls will come out on top, the 1-4 spots are a tough call.

*Final 3 Playoff Spots*
6. Indiana
7. Milwaukee
8. Washington

*Indiana* just seems to always be in the playoffs. Losing Johnson hurts, Armstrong is too old to replace him, Sarunas is expected to step up and might be a good fit as a shooting PG after losing Peja. Harrington isn't the shooter Peja is but should make up for it on defense. Daniels could be a big X factor for this team, anything the rookies(Shawne Williams, James White) bring for them is money, kind of like the Bulls.

The more I think about the *Bucks* the more I like them. Villanueva and Bogut upfront are mactchup nightmares, and whoever is guarding Redd can give no help, Mo Williams is probably the most underrated PG in the game. One thing that could hurt them is lack of depth, if they stay healthy I like them a lot.

*Washington* had a decent offseason added Songo, Stevenson, and Pecherov (who looks ready to contribute a little right away), they lost Jeffries. They are a good starter away from being a playoff lock year in and year out, but as it stands now they will have many teams nipping at their heals. 

I'd say these 3 teams stand out from the rest, but a lot of lotto bound teams have brighter futures.

*Lottery Bound*
9. Boston 
10. Charlotte
11. Orlando
12. Toronto
13. Philadelphia
14. New York
15. Atlanta

Well that wasn't easy. 

I might have put the *Celts* in at 8 if they had Foye, seriously a another horrible move by Ainge(who would be considered Isiah Thomas if not for Pierce). I don't see Telfair outplaying West for the next couple years. Still Pierce and Wally will outscore the oppositions wing players more times than not, Ratliff gives them some interior d and is a perfect vet(along w/ Grant) to help out Perkins and Jefferson who are expected to break out at any.... some time(seemingly very familiar).

*Charlotte* only won 26 games last year and their only significant addition was Morrison, but he just so happens to be a perfect fit. The rest of their returning core is young and bound for improvement. Okafor only played 26 games, he's almost like an addition as well.

Give *Orlando*, Milicic, and Howard one more year, and they should be a force. Having your starting bigs and PG's for the concievable future is a good start. Right now they are pretty weak on the wings especially defensivly.

*Toronto* seemed to do everything they could to be a better team this season. Their backcourt stunk last year, they added Parker, Jones, and Ford. Not too shabby, down the road along with MoPete it might be one too many mediocre players, but next year should be of great improvement. Nesterovic gives them a viable center next to Bosh. If Barganani can out do what Charlie did last year(it will be tough) they could end up a quite a few spots higher.

*Philadelphia* fans should be sick to their stomach, the team seems to have a gloomier future the more time that goes by. I can't believe how low I had to rank this team. Webber and AI aren't a good pair, and both are on the decline. Their young core consists of guy who can't dictate much of anything by themselves. My guess is they are going to wait for Webber's contract to be up, then dump AI and rebuild. It's going to be a long process for Sixer fans. 

I really thought I was going to put *New York* higher, but actually had a hard time not putting them at the bottom. Of the teams from the bottom of the east last year, NY seems to have done the least to improve besides ATL. Lost AD and Butler, gained Jeffires and Balkman. I'd say that is a slight upgrade, but other teams improved themselves much more. Their improvement lies on the very sketchy idea that Isiah Thomas is going to outcoach Larry Brown, while I buy that, I don't see it being that big of a difference, and the east is better this year.

Another bad draft for *Atlanta*, coupled with trading thier 2nd best player for a future pick, and I just can't say they are better than anyone. The additions of Claxton and Sheldon should keep ATL from losing ground, but they didn't have a whole lot of ground to begin with. This team could move up a few spots, but it all rests on the improvement of Marvin Williams who is still very young.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Great breakdown...

Atlanta still pains me the most...

They could of had Foye, Roy, Gay etc. but chose Shelden...

That's gonna hurt for a long time. Imagine

G Johnson
G Smith
F Gay
F Williams
C Pachulia

they'd be a nightmare...but very inexperiened....


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

magic WILL b in the playoffs


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

top rung

1.* Heat*
2.* cleve.*
3.*det.*
4.*bulls*


the heat are defending champs , the cavs won 50 last season and should win more than last season just because hughes should be healthier and LBJ is another year older, the pistons lost wallace and got Nazr, a net loss but they should win over 50 too...as should the bulls with ben wallace.

other likely playoff teams
5.*nets*

the nets won 49 but their motor (kidd) getting older, they still have an unproven bench so their big 4 gets no rest . I think they win in the neighborhood of 43-45 games


fighting for spots 6,7 & 8
6.*wash.* won 42 didn't improve in the offseason , their age puts them in their prime so they should win about 42 again...unless Arenas has a bad year(which tends to happen to players who get no rest due to playing for U.S.A.) in which case they will win less.
7.*nyk* a wild card,have 50 win talent but won 23 with it last season I'm convinced Larry brown was trying his best to torpedo the team and its talent so I compare them to the knicks team of 2 years ago that won 33 , they are better than that that so I put them at around 36-44 wins depending on IT's coaching and how well the team's talents meld together.
8.*indy* got harrington but dealt anthony johnson and lost fred jones and scott pollard, with bender finally retiring. at least there should be no more huge distractions, they got some talent that is young but it probably needs a year before it makes an impact.
*char.* was bad last year but it could have been worse okafor was hurt , as was may and at times brezec . I think morrison and some healthy bodies should be enough to put them in playoff contention.
*milwakee* traded TJ for charlie V. and joe smith for patterson... i dont think either move made them better i think 38-40 games is about what i think they will win.

lottery bound
*orl.* look like the 2005-06 warriors to me a tam that did a trade got a shot in the armbut really weren't all that good
*atl. * lots of talent but its too focused at the small forward position. 
*philly* CWebb is basically done , gets his 20-10 but cant defend or even move , Iverson cant do it alone and Iggy is not stepping up enough.
*tor.*they are just bosh and a dream of being good , but bosh isn't showing he is a real difference maker yet.
*boston * too young and inexperienced to make playoffs or to be much better than they were last year. its sad , they have to develop players at almost every position , its hard to win alot games like that.


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## r1terrell23 (Feb 11, 2006)

Hustle said:


> My Rankings
> 
> 
> *Top Teams*
> ...


Switch Chicago and Miami and you'll be right on.


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## Real (Aug 3, 2005)

I'm not too sure about rankings yet. 

Miami is no. 1. They are the defending champs. All the key guys are returning from last year.

As far as I'm concerned, the next four spots are up for grabs, and Chicago, New Jersey, Cleveland, Detroit should all be competiting for those spots. All four teams have questions to be answered, but they also have the potental to be dangerous come playoff time.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Real said:


> I'm not too sure about rankings yet.
> 
> Miami is no. 1. They are the defending champs. All the key guys are returning from last year.


I'd go along with that if I was predicting an NBA Finals winner, but Shaq has made it clear throughout his career he isn't going all out during the regular season, and he's only getting older along with many of the other key components of that team.

They were 2nd last year, and only 2 and 3 games ahead of Clevland and New Jersey respectivily.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

i suppose, even though it's far too early to speculate, i see it going down somewhat like this;

1.miami
2.det
3.chicago/cleveland
4.cleveland/chicago
5.nj
6.indiana
7.washington/milwaukee
8.orlando/philly

boston; i've always thought most folks overrated their "youth". beyond pierce, they are a 20 win team as currently constituted. for all the potential their youth supposed has, none of them had a winning pedigree (beyond high school; delonte west was at best a supporting player at st.joe's for the hawks winning season), therefore making the leap to the nba is going to take time.

charlotte; it takes time to build a franchise and they've got some nice pieces. good health for okafur would be a step in the right direction. if they're fortunate enough to get oden, they'll be a monster in 1-2 years.

toronto; will they, can they, are they going to defend?

atlanta; 1 player, a mismatched roster, and no fans.

new york; the knick does have talent, but getting it all together for one season to save isaiah's neck will be the most interesting thing about watching them this year. i see an improvement from 23, but WTF it can't get much worse. therefore, while the bull might not swap for a #1 they should get somebody in the top 8-10 worst case scenario.

what's noteworthy is that for my money, i don't think cleveland is that tough. lebron will get his but if Z or hughes misses a significant amount of games, cleveland's talent depth (imo) is questionable and they could tumble to 5, 6, or 7. god (forbid) help them if lebron goes down for *any* significant time.


lastly, the bull will have to have many things go perfectly to win the east. i'll be disappointed with anything less than the 2nd round; here's rooting for them though.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

LOCKS for the playoffs :

1. Miami
2. Detriot
3. Chicago
4. Cleveland (team is trash but they have the KING)
5. New Jersey
6. Indiana (Granger, Harrington, JO, Armstrong, Daniels, White, Williams + Coach? LOCK)

The Rest (some playoff caliber but are an injury away from being a lotto team and the others are just trash):

Milwaukee - Stunning frontline but very young and in-experienced. Michael Redd still isn't the superstar that he thinks he is but those two on the front should make him a much better scorer next year. Blake, Skinner, Bell, Patterson etc. aren't a very good bench so that will hurt them. They're an injury away from being back in the lotto but they definintely are a playoff team.

Boston - HEAVILY upgraded their talent with vets and young guys and should be incredibly DEEP. Although they could make a move to get another veteran star-like player for Pierce, they should be tough for ANYONE to face.

Charlotte - My favorite young team in the NBA. Morrison is the perfect leader for that pack of wolves. Those guys are hungry and play hard as hell but never had that guy to put em over the top, until NOW. The may not be a playoff team next year but the year after? They're gonna be there for a longgggg time. If their top 5 talents had more experience, they'd be a contender.

Washington - Still are a playoff caliber team but they're starting to look like A.I. and philly of years past. How much more can he do for this team? They should be ahead of Boston on my listing but Boston is deep and hungry. Even Arenas said he doesn't know if they're dedicated to winning.

Philadelphia - They didn't do anything to improve at all and look like they'll make a move before the deadline. They'll slide even further down the chart this year. I don't see playoffs in their future at all.

Toronto - They upgraded, definintely got more well-rounded but they're still young. Bosh & Bargnani are the future but I can't see them getting a playoff spot next year. They may be the 2nd worst defensive team in the east.

New York - I see as much as 35 wins for them but that's it. They'll play hard for Zeke but the conference is just getting to deep for them. I can't wait til' we get our lotto pick from them so we can stop worrying and talking about NY.

Atlanta - Hot garbage, they'll be the worst in the east next year.

Orlando - They're not ready. They had that nice little run at the end of last year but EVERY bad team goes on those type of runs at the end of EVERY season. If Darko BEASTS next season and the drafted Brewer instead, then I'd be on the bandwagon. They'll win 35 games easily though.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

The ROY said:


> LOCKS for the playoffs :
> 
> 1. Miami
> 2. Detriot
> ...


Isn't Blake going to start for Milwaukee? I pretty much agree with where you've got the teams slotted, but do you seriously think Darrell Armstrong is going to have any kind of an impact in Indiana? He's 106 years old.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

jbulls said:


> Isn't Blake going to start for Milwaukee? I pretty much agree with where you've got the teams slotted, but do you seriously think Darrell Armstrong is going to have any kind of an impact in Indiana? He's 106 years old.


All teams need a bit of postive veteran influence....Armstrong is a good guy to have...

Maurice Williams said he was told that the starting PG job was his.....we'll see though but I definintely think Blake has a chance to take it


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Maurice Williams is a stud. I thought the whole reason they got rid of Ford was to give him more playing time. He might be an all-star someday. Blake will have to work for minutes IMO. Charlie Bell isn't going to just give him minutes.

And they still have Gadzuric on the bench, but with Magloire gone, he can play a lot more again. Still got Bobby Simmons.

I like the Bucks. It's a touch eastern conference though, and they may still be a little too green to grab the winnings.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Real said:


> I'm not too sure about rankings yet.





> i suppose, even though it's far too early to speculate,


There is only 2 free agents left that could change my order. Reggie Evans and Bonzi Wells, both of whom I believe will stay out west. Aside from waiting for those guys to sign I don't see why it's too early. Trades can always happen and what else is there?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The ROY said:


> 4. Cleveland (team is trash but they have the KING)


And yet that was enough to get 50 wins and get to the ECSF last year. If Larry Hughes shows up and doesn't suck, that's five or six wins right there. And with Anderson Verejao's continued improvement, having him for the start of the season, should help them get out of the gates fast this year. As well as a more seasoned coach this year, whose system is finally taking hold. 


> Orlando - They're not ready. They had that nice little run at the end of last year but EVERY bad team goes on those type of runs at the end of EVERY season. If Darko BEASTS next season and the drafted Brewer instead, then I'd be on the bandwagon. They'll win 35 games easily though.


Darko is beasting. He's chomping at the bit. He closed out last year strong, and now he's playing well for Serbia. And Dwight Howard....oh my...god. All they need is guys on the perimeter ot knock down their shots, and this team has a very easy route to a 40+ win season and Dwight's debut in the playoffs. I don't think the end of year run was a fluke. Primarily because that was a completely diffrent team at the end of the year. They made several trades, and by the end of the year had little in common with the roster that started the year. So now we get to see that roster for an entire year. Should be interesting.

1. Miami (they were the champions last year, so they'll have the championship swagger until someone knocks it out of their mouth in the playoffs, they should cruise through the year)
2. Cleveland (The King has improved on his win total every year, and gotten better seemingly every game. A healthy Larry Hughes(or one that when he plays plays healthy), a healthy Anderson Verejao, and the second year system of Mike Brown, along with some good draft choices, could be just the extra push this team needs. They may very well win the eastern conference if they can stay somewhat healthy)
3. Detroit(The Suns east. I can't believe it's come to this. But the Pistons may now be the best offensive basketball team in the eastern conference. I expect them to run teams out of the building this year, and that type of basketball is very conducive to regular season success. Losing Ben Wallace is going to make this team a juggernaut offensively, to the point where I don't think it will matter what they give up defensively(they are still good defensively) Going to be some all-stars on this team again, I think. And Billups will get even more serious consideration for the MVP)
4. Chicago(Young team on the upswing. Hinrich continues to get better, Nocioni is coming into his prime, Ben Gordon continues to settle. I don't think the addition of Ben Wallace will be what makes this team go, I think the improvement of a young team that has now played together for something like 2 or 3 years straight and made the playoffs in two of those, is what's going to be the rub. They know they can make the playoffs now. Now they want to try and put a strangle hold on the regular season. The only thing hurting this team is the lack of a true superduperstar to go against The King and DWade who are both starting to enter unbeatable phase)
5. New Jersey(An aging but excellent cast, gives it another run, you wonder if patience is going to eventually run out on this team do something amazing. Not sure which will give out first, Father time or Patience. Jason Kidd is what makes this team special, and I worry about this team as it becomes Vince Carter's more and more. Vince proved in Toronto that he didn't want to be the lone gun carrying a team. I don't think he and RJ really fit that well, I think Jason is what makes that work, and I just wonder if their young point guards are going to be able to come in and approximate Kidd...I'm concerned. Kristic is really good though.)
6. New York(Isiah has the schemes. I've listened to him talk about the philosophy that he is putting on the floor this year. And it sounds perfect for the squad he has. This team is going to run, they are going to put up a ton of shots, and they will put the ball in the post more. Isiah is giving this team a lot of freedom, and he can afford to, considering that I think he is going to start two point guards every game. He's one of the rare coaches in the league who isn't going to sit on the sideline calling plays. He's going to let his players make decisions on the floor. The other guy who does that....Phil Jackson. This team is going to suprise teh crap out of people. Larry Brown cost the Knicks ten wins last year. So that gives them a starting point of 35 wins, I think a fast start, and they should end up around 43-44 wins next year. Which should be about a 6th seed. How great would it be though if they played the Bulls in the first round?)
7. Orlando-(Darko looks like he has arrived. Nelson and Arroyo is a solid point guard rotation. Reddick can do one thing, shoot. And oh yeah...there's that Dwight Howard guy. This is the year of the Dwight. The year pre-Oden, where Dwight puts the fear of God into the rest of the league. Dwight is a darkhorse MVP candidate next season. Orlando is going to be beastial. Most teams are not ready. This is the first time in a long time I've picked the Magic to do anything. They are usually one of the most overhyped teams every offseason. This year there's not as much hype, but there actually should be).
8. Milwaukee-They are better than this seed, and could move up a lot depending on how things jel, and how quickly it happens. Also depending on the health of some of these teams ahead of them. Bogut is a nasty brutish man, and it's good that they are eliminating all obstacles to making him the face of that team. He and Charlie V will be exciting to see develop. I expect Bobby Simmons to play better this year. Maurice Williams will be a revelation. Michael Redd's numbers will drop, but his efficiency should go up...maybe. Honestly if this team traded Redd for J-Rich or Mikael Pietrus, I think they'd be better. But one possiblity for how this team will work is those old Reggie Miller Pacer teams.

Some people may be asking where are the Pacers?
In the lottery. This team needs to be overhauled. Starting with trading JO. An interesting idea would be JO to the Bulls for some mix of young and draft picks. Especially if the Bulls see that the Knicks are going to be a good team this year. They may part with that pick, Ben Gordon, and Tyrus Thomas, in order to make a run at the title this year before Wallace gets too old.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> And yet that was enough to get 50 wins and get to the ECSF last year. If Larry Hughes shows up and doesn't suck, that's five or six wins right there. And with Anderson Verejao's continued improvement, having him for the start of the season, should help them get out of the gates fast this year. As well as a more seasoned coach this year, whose system is finally taking hold.
> .


I still put them top 5 but without Bron? They're a 20 win team tops....

The team is still trash regardless. Hughes, Gooden, Ilgaukus blah...none of them truely compliment Bron...


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> 6. New York(Isiah has the schemes. I've listened to him talk about the philosophy that he is putting on the floor this year. And it sounds perfect for the squad he has. This team is going to run, *they are going to put up a ton of shots*, and they will put the ball in the post more.


 :laugh: 



> How great would it be though if they played the Bulls in the first round?)


pretty not great



> 7. Orlando-(Darko looks like he has arrived. Nelson and Arroyo is a solid point guard rotation. Reddick can do one thing, shoot. And oh yeah...there's that Dwight Howard guy. This is the year of the Dwight. The year pre-Oden, where Dwight puts the fear of God into the rest of the league. Dwight is a darkhorse MVP candidate next season. Orlando is going to be beastial. Most teams are not ready. This is the first time in a long time I've picked the Magic to do anything. They are usually one of the most overhyped teams every offseason. This year there's not as much hype, but there actually should be).


Reasons why I don't think Orlando will make it
1)No perimeter defense, Darko and Dwight are going to depended on for a lot of help, I think they need another year, not sure how good Darko is man on either.
2) Dwight and Darko still don't have the offensive ability to carry a team, Turkoglu is a nice third scorer but not first.

And also where are the Pacers?


> Some people may be asking where are the Pacers?
> In the lottery. This team needs to be overhauled. Starting with trading JO.


Couldn't disagree more about putting the Knicks ahead of the Pacers. I'm with ROY in thinking they are a lock. But I do agree the Pacers should seriously consider overhauling their team. Even though I think they will make the playoffs, JO's talent and value are going to take huge hits every year that goes by, and Indy is not a contender. 



> An interesting idea would be JO to the Bulls for some mix of young and draft picks. Especially if the Bulls see that the Knicks are going to be a good team this year. They may part with that pick, Ben Gordon, and Tyrus Thomas, in order to make a run at the title this year before Wallace gets too old.


How can we compete for a title without Gordon? Thabo's not a shooter, neither is Deng, I doubt Kirk and Nocioni can carry the load. Brown and others would also have to be included. I'm really not down for trading for JO or Garnett based on every proposal I've ever heard.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

1. Miami
2. Cleveland
3. Detroit
4. Nets
5. Bulls


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

1. Cleveland. The stars are aligned for them this year and next.
2. New Jersey. An allstar backcourt has had a year together and Kristic matures.
3. Chicago. Take a while to jell and mature (rookies), but very dangerous in the playoffs.
4. Detroit. Still good enough to finish 4th in the east.
5. Miami. Injuries and age catch up with this one-shot team.
6. Milwalkee. Good trades pay off.
7. Indiana. Maybe a bit better than last year.
8. Washington. Front line matures enough to take the load off the backcourt.

9. Orlando. Not ready for prime-time -- but close.
10. Charlotte. Additions of injured players and rookies start to add up to wins
11. Philadelphia. AI is shopped all season. Someone (Cleveland?) takes him at the deadline.
12. Boston. Fates payback for too many championships
13. Toronto. A little better, but Bargnani is a disappointment.
14. Atlanta. Needs new ownership to move up much.
15. New York. Core melt down fatally irradiates everyone by mid-year.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I have to put a good word in for Orlando. I don't think people are understanding how good this team is. Ariza is definitely going to have a mini-breakout this season, and he's got the ability to be a lock-down wing defender. 

People don't understand how good Jameer Nelson is yet, either. Just think about his numbers for a second: 14.6, 4.9 apg, 1.13 spg, 48.3% FG, 42.4% 3pt. All of this in 28.8 mpg, a number sure to rise. We can probably use his starting split to more accurately project his future: 16, 5.8, 1.1, 43.8% 3pt in 31.9 mpg. Just FYI, those numbers are eerily similar to Kirk Hinrich's numbers this past year. This kid is good and is still getting better; his ability to shoot the ball wasn't as impressive when he first came in the league, and now his shooting AND his rugged playmaking ability are getting attention. He IS quick, maybe not TJ Ford quick, but quick enough to get a first step to the rim. He distributes well and doesn't overdribble. 

It's his third year and he's ready and poised to impress the world. Carlos Arroyo is no terrible backup, although his level of play returns to earth once he's playing back in the NBA. Maybe some of it will translate over this time around.

James Augustine is a subtle signing that might have good impact. With Tony Battie and Augustine in the mix with a beasting Darko and Dwight Howard, the next great big man of the NBA, the frontcourt looks bigger and deeper than ours.

It's true that they lack on the wings, but Hedo isn't a terrible defender, and he's living up to some of the potential everyone saw in Sac-town. Ariza will have his chance to step up as a very reliable defender. Also, it's obvious that this team's strategy is NOT to defend on the wings but to let the bigs take care of backing up average perimeter defenders. The makeup of the team is high-powered offense on the wings, with long-bombers like Diener, Nelson, Redick and Hedo. Arroyo and Dooling are slashers that love to score. The plan is for them to outscore the other team more than to lock them down, and I think it'll work.

I pencil them in for #7 in the East.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Hustle said:


> How can we compete for a title without Gordon? Thabo's not a shooter, neither is Deng, I doubt Kirk and Nocioni can carry the load. Brown and others would also have to be included. I'm really not down for trading for JO or Garnett based on every proposal I've ever heard.


Um...offensive load wise, JO averages more points at a more efficient clip than Gordon. The Bulls are not hurting for outside shooters, with Kirk, Nocioni, and Duhon. They do however need inside scoring. They need Gordon's production, more efficiently, and coming from the paint to balance the floor on offense.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> Um...offensive load wise, JO averages more points at a more efficient clip than Gordon. The Bulls are not hurting for outside shooters, with Kirk, Nocioni, and Duhon. They do however need inside scoring. They need Gordon's production, more efficiently, and coming from the paint to balance the floor on offense.


I'd rather have Gordon as the number one scoring option in the future maybe as soon as next year. How would we replace Thomas, Brown, and either Sweet or Allen would have to be included as well. That would leave us with 2 quality bigs but no bench, and a severly weakened 2 spot. JO also has health concerns.


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## nybullsfan (Aug 12, 2005)

here is how i see it playing out i could be wrong though

*1-Heat * (despite shaq and most of the heat team getting older shaq is still dominate and they still have wade look for them in the 55-60win range
*2-Bulls * (will be the new defensive powerhouse of the eastern conference paxson has done a remarkable job in bringing in good defensive pieces while at the same time adding experience look for us to finish in the 52-55 win range)
*2-Pistons*(not too good of a offseason right? well pistons is stil a threat in the eastern conference they probably adobt a more uptempo game they still have nice offensive peices and versitility in players such as billups, sheed, and prince.)
*4-Cavaliers-* (anyteam with lebron is dangerous while they did not do much to improve on this offseason and may be riding on that pistons series they still pose a threat look for them in the 50-52 win range)
*5-Nets-* (still have three headed monster of rjeff vc and jkidd to go along with kristic and two solid draft additions, even though one of them is out for the first couple of months) 
*6-Pacers* (look for pacers to still have injury bugs during this season which is why i do not list them in my top for but jermaine oneal should be healthy most of the way which is good enough to get them in the playoffs)
*7-Magic* (this will be one of our main rivals in the future along with cavaliers and bobcats, i predict howard to make his first all star apperance and for them to continue their surge they had late in the season resulting in a playoff birth)
*8-Bobcats* (i know iam alone hear but this is my my darkhorse team this team reminds me exactly of bulls in the 04-05 season and now they have their shooter and closer in morrison like we had in ben gordon two years ago, they are also very sound defensivly and that will never take you out of games, okafor should be healthy they have a good center in brezec to boot and a nice veteran that helped us in our playoff birth in othello, future is bright)


*lottery bound*
*9-wizards-* (for the secound consecutive year they lose one of their better defenders in jefferies (hughes being the first) they hardly made it last year as it is going to be a long season for the wizards)
*10-raptors*-(they improve this year in adding ford and bargnai were solid moves by new gm colangelo, but they will just miss the cut because of defensive woes.)
*11-sixers*- (webber is getting older, iverson will keep shooting, dalambert is inconsistent this team is a mess)
*12-bucks- * (losing ford is going to hurt more than people make it out to be its going to be awfully hard to find a pass first pg in todays nba is bogut ready for that next step?) 
*13-celtics-*signing pierce for 60million they are basically wasting his prime this team is very young and need about 2-3 years to make the playoffs again)
*15-knicks*-( :laugh: next)
*15-hawks-* (i really dont see much improvement but on the flip side sheldon will do great things in hotlanta)


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*ELITE OF THE EAST*

*heat* - the same pieces and Wade is getting more matured. Shaq will always be Shaq in the playoffs.
*BULLS* - While the addition of Wallace has made a huge splash, their other pieces in Thomas and Safo will make them more balanced and dangerous. 
*cavs* - They need a true pg to fill out a very balanced starting 5.

UPPER ECHELON OF THE EAST

*pistons* - Losing Wallace hurts but still a balanced starting 4.5. 
*Nets* - a true interior player from being an ELITE.
*pacers* - still experience and balance team.

QUALITY PERFORMERS

*wizards* - capable of making the playoffs every season in the East with their current players.
*magic* - young and talented. 
*bucks* - need another proven player to be a contender in the East.

QUESTION MARKS

*sixers::raptors:knicks::bobcats::hawks::celtics*


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Lets put it this way, nothing would make me happier then having winning both the draft lottery, the powerball, and the NBA Finals....the powerball is all my money....


----------



## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

nybullsfan said:


> *12-bucks- * (losing ford is going to hurt more than people make it out to be its going to be awfully hard to find a pass first pg in todays nba is bogut ready for that next step?)


The Bucks acquired just that -- a pass first PG -- when they dealt Jamaal Magloire to Portland. The Blazers originally offered Juan Dixon (NOT a PG) in the trade but the Bucks reportedly balked and specifically wanted Blake, whom Portland was very hesitant to part with, but eventually did. If anything -- my opinion only -- I don't think Mags will be a Blazer for terribly long because I believe one of the reasons (or two) for getting him in the first place was 1) expiring contract and 2) someone attractive to package with a most unattractive player (Miles). Oddly enough, Blake has an expiring deal himself (as do the other players that Milwaukee acquired from Portland, onetime Buck Brian Skinner and Seung Jin-Ha. Further, Mo Williams has an expiring deal TOO and it'll be very interesting to see how Terry Stotts handles his free-agent-to-be PGs this season).

As a Blazers well wisher I'm not terribly happy about the deal from the Blazers' POV. OTOH, the Bucks got themselves someone who I think will certainly push Mo Williams and, whether Blake comes off the bench or not, will be in a position to surprise. Not really sure how he will adapt to whatever kind of offense Stotts likes to put out there, but here's hoping he'll be dishing the rock to teammates who can actually connect.

But here's some interesting stuff I found on a Bucks fanblog, posted August 01, 2006:



> Here's one you can file under the category of "Bad Omens". Newly acquired Bucks PG Steve Blake played his worst basketball last year against the Central Division.
> 
> His Eff48 against the Central Division in 2005-06 was a measly 11.44, by far his worst production against any division in the NBA. And if you remove the Bucks from the equation, his Eff48 sinks to 10.74.
> 
> ...


But then August 13, same blog (link above), author sings a different song, although it doesn't change Blake's statistics against the big dogs of the EC Central last season, however bad they were (caveat -- my sarcasm detector is still vibrating a little bit with this entry, although its not screaming like a tornado siren either ... and I too respect Abbott's blog, its one of the better hoops reads on the Interweb):



> Henry Abbott is the author of one of the very best basketball blogs, TrueHoop. He also happens to be a Portland TrailBlazer fan. Naturally, he had an opinion on the recent Milwaukee-Portland trade and he outlined it in a recent interview with si.com.
> 
> Basically Abbott indicated that he liked the deal from Portland's perspective, but he seemed to really regret losing Blake. He went so far as to say that Blake had a "great future", and he even expressed hope that Blake would return to Portland next summer as a free agent.
> 
> ...


(then again, as a certain well-loved Bull supposedly said recently, "statistics are like bikinis ... " My bias is showing here but how do you be a floor general and try to get your teammates involved when your teammates for the most part have given up on the team? That frankly is the other reason I don't like this trade for the Blazers in that they jettison one of their very few players that gives a damn and works his tail off to better himself, but unfortunately individuals like Darius Miles and others remain there. And yes I know getting rid of them won't be easy but it has to be done for the good of that franchise.) 

I don't post any of this to talk smack or whatever ... again I obviously have a bias towards Blake and I hope he does well in Milwaukee. That said, the EC Central is either Chicago's, or Detroit's, to lose (in the here and now I pick Chicago and I don't see why that would change as the season progresses. Getting Wallace just made you guys pretty scary, as if Nocioni, Hinrich and Gordon aren't scary enough).

As for the Eastern Conference as a whole, probably Miami's to lose.

Sorry for the rant just had to weigh in.


----------



## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

*The Locks:*
1. Miami- The Champs, alll major player returning. nuff said.
2. Detroit- Still a top team. Wallace hurts on D, but will allow them to run a faster O.
3. New Jersey- JKidd, still the best point in the NBA. Carter, back to his old form.
4. Cleveland- King James continues to amaze and astound.

*Chances are good *(but things can go bad):
~ Chicago- Big shakeups can go good.... or bad. (I hope the former.)
~ Milwalkee- Lookin' good, Charlie V + Bogut should = playoffs.
~ Washington- An Enigma, has talent and should be better then they are. Can they put it together?

*On the cusp *(Play to potential and your in):
~ Indiana- Peja-Harrington switch is likely a wash in terms of wins. Better health=playoffs.
~ Orlando- Darko, Darko, Darko.... can he finally shed the "Bowie" talk? Me think so.
~ New York- God... they should win 50 games with that roster. Still have too many guards, not enough bigs.
~ Boston- Ainge... what the heck are you doing? He's almost forcing himself to trade PP here...

*Not gonna happen* (well.. never say never. but "never"):
~ Philadelphia- Sorry AI... maybe if Webber finds a time machine you can win 35 games...
~ Charlotte- Still needs some seasoning
~ Toronto- Never trade big for small. (See NBA history.)
~ Atlanta- Guh. Please hire me to help.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Showtyme said:


> I have to put a good word in for Orlando. I don't think people are understanding how good this team is. Ariza is definitely going to have a mini-breakout this season, and he's got the ability to be a lock-down wing defender.


Ariza isn't good...can't shoot, can't dribble....

I wouldn't put my money on him to do anything but dunk


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Um...offensive load wise, JO averages more points at a more efficient clip than Gordon. The Bulls are not hurting for outside shooters, with Kirk, Nocioni, and Duhon. They do however need inside scoring. They need Gordon's production, more efficiently, and coming from the paint to balance the floor on offense.


No, he doesn't. Jermaine O'Neals' eFG% was .474 last year. Gordon's was was .494.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

1 Mia
2 Cle
3 NJ
4 Bulls
5 knicks
6 Wizards
7 pistons 
8 orlando


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

jbulls said:


> No, he doesn't. Jermaine O'Neals' eFG% was .474 last year. Gordon's was was .494.


It's not all about eFG. O'Neal makes a FT for every 3.3 FGA. Gordon is about at 5.5.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

TRUTHHURTS said:


> 1 Mia
> 2 Cle
> 3 NJ
> 4 Bulls
> ...



Why are the Knicks 25-30 wins better than last year?
Addition by subtraction of Larry Brown, Ariza and Antonio Davis?
Addition of Jalen Rose, Stevie Franchise and two low draft picks?


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Ariza isn't good...can't shoot, can't dribble....
> 
> I wouldn't put my money on him to do anything but dunk



Ariza's my darkhorse for MIP. Ben Wallace can't really shoot or dribble. Does that make him useless?

Also, Ariza actually isn't a bad shooter anyway. And more importantly, he can score, even if not from shooting. I'd put him down for a very reliable 10 and 6, with possibly 1 steal and 1 block. That's high impact and he's really got some athletic skills from the wing.

Even if Ariza's impact isn't big, I'd put the Magic down for 7th seed and a strong one at that. I just really think that Dwight Howard is going to actually hit that elite level starting this year. When I watch him play, I can't think of anything that he can't do, except hit outside shots. I also can't think of a player like him in the league today except Amare Stoudemire, who is built with a stronger build but that's not even really true anymore, as Howard put on some serious muscle. Dwight's a legit 7-foot, whereas Amare just "plays like he's 7-feet" (and he really does, but there IS a difference).

Don't underestimate JJ Redick, either. He's fallen off the radar with his legal troubles and back problems, but people were talking about his shooting as having almost the ideal textbook form. A young, aggressive gunner with a textbook jumper and range from the 4th row is nothing to ever take lightly, even if he's not a great defender or whatever else might be true. If this guy makes his way into the lineup (whatever that may mean), he's an impact player, even if one-dimensionally. And I think he's not a terrible athlete, and has worked on adding to his penetration game.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Oh, and my rankings are:

New Jersey
Chicago
Miami
Cleveland
Detroit
Indiana
ORLANDO
Milwaukee/Washington

Washington will push Milwaukee and probably keep them out, although they made all the right moves. The Wizards are still just too good with Arenas.

By the way, it's been touched on in this thread, but Indiana's still freakin good. You don't just add Marquis Daniels, Shawne Williams, Al Harrington... not to mention James White, who might be very good... losing basically just Peja... and then not get better. Harrington is going to have to play big, and maybe they're hoping that John Edwards can contribute, because the team still lacks a lot in terms of size, but come on. I think James White is going to quickly replace Fred Jones, Shawne Williams is going to be a great project to develop into a young star, Marquis Daniels puts some teeth into their defense... it's still a really good team.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Showtyme said:


> Ariza's my darkhorse for MIP. Ben Wallace can't really shoot or dribble. Does that make him useless?
> 
> Also, Ariza actually isn't a bad shooter anyway. And more importantly, he can score, even if not from shooting. I'd put him down for a very reliable 10 and 6, with possibly 1 steal and 1 block. That's high impact and he's really got some athletic skills from the wing.
> 
> ...


I agree that Orlando is a dark horse this year, but there's a lot of ifs in the backcourt and on the wings. Darko is no sure thing either.

I find it interesting that you don't even mention Grant Hill. Is he washed up? If he's healthy, he could help them a lot.


----------



## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

Showtyme said:


> By the way, it's been touched on in this thread, but Indiana's still freakin good. You don't just add Marquis Daniels, Shawne Williams, Al Harrington... not to mention James White, who might be very good... losing basically just Peja... and then not get better. Harrington is going to have to play big, and maybe they're hoping that John Edwards can contribute, because the team still lacks a lot in terms of size, but come on. I think James White is going to quickly replace Fred Jones, Shawne Williams is going to be a great project to develop into a young star, Marquis Daniels puts some teeth into their defense... it's still a really good team.


I also think Danny Granger will have a great year, he has showed alot of promise in his first season.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

McBulls said:


> Why are the Knicks 25-30 wins better than last year?
> Addition by subtraction of Larry Brown, Ariza and Antonio Davis?
> Addition of Jalen Rose, Stevie Franchise and two low draft picks?


because they were not 23 win bad last year . Im not talking just brown Im talking a slow heart ailment start for Curry Q's back problems and family issues ,Marburys shoulder and Ad's suspension . A healthy knicks team even with brown was 33 win bad so to me it would not be a 20 + game jump but more like a 10 - 15 win jump. 


Barring injury the knicks will be a lot better and the yhave guys who can take advantage of the handchecking rules . They have 4 guys who can be in the top 25 in the league in fta and that will change a lot of games.

Pistons without Ben dont frighten anyone thats why I have them falling 

Magic rise up imagine how good they wouldve been if they had taken jamal back instead of capspace and then drafted tabo 

Darko/battie
Howard
Hedo/hill
Jamal/Tabo
Nelson/Arroyo

wizards make it because of there scoring 

Mia,Cle,NJ are my top 3 because they are veteran teams who have had the least amount of changes barring injuries will be the most consistent .


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> It's not all about eFG. O'Neal makes a FT for every 3.3 FGA. Gordon is about at 5.5.


I'm pretty sure eFG% includes FTA and/or FTM


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> I'm pretty sure eFG% includes FTA and/or FTM


it doesn't, its just 2 pointers and 3's that take into account the 3 is worth more per shot.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

1. Detroit(they got alot to prove and will be on a mission to prove it. They get #1 over Miami because they got more to prove than Miami. Miami just cares about getting in the playoffs and taking care of it from there)
2. Miami
3. Chicago
4. New Jersey
5. Cleveland
6. Orlando
7. Indiana
8. Washington


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> it doesn't, its just 2 pointers and 3's that take into account the 3 is worth more per shot.


Dan Rosenbaum's eFG% does take into account free throws.

The eFG% calculated on basketball-reference.com does not.

EDIT: From Dan's signature:

True Shooting Percentage = (0.5*PTS)/(FGA+0.44*FTA)


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

Showtyme said:


> Ariza's my darkhorse for MIP. Ben Wallace can't really shoot or dribble. Does that make him useless?
> 
> Also, Ariza actually isn't a bad shooter anyway. And more importantly, he can score, even if not from shooting. I'd put him down for a very reliable 10 and 6, with possibly 1 steal and 1 block. That's high impact and he's really got some athletic skills from the wing.
> 
> ...


Trevor Ariza is a terrible shooter. His eFG% on jumpers last year was .148, which is hilariously bad. He's a fine defender, but there aren't many teams that can afford to run a 2 guard out on the court who shoots the ball like that. The Magic have the most exciting young big in the league, and they ought to be surrounding him with guys who can shoot. Ariza can't hit the ocean from the beach.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

johnston797 said:


> It's not all about eFG. O'Neal makes a FT for every 3.3 FGA. Gordon is about at 5.5.


I was under the impression that eFG% takes free throws into account. I do think that the statistic favors guys who shoot a lot of 3's a little too much, but I think (unless I'm wrong about the free throw thing) that Ben Gordon's points/shot attempts ratio is better than Jermaine O'Neal's.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

This is kind of off-topic, but I think it's possible that Indiana may be the worst three point shooting team in the league next year. Outside of Jasikevicius they don't have anyone who can consistently stick it from distance. Marquis Daniels and Jamal Tinsley are nice players, but both are poor shooters for guards.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Dan Rosenbaum's eFG% does take into account free throws.
> 
> The eFG% calculated on basketball-reference.com does not.
> 
> ...


the EFG% being spoken about didn't take o'neal ft's into accout , or it would have been significantly higher.529...they were talking about the one on basketball reference or 82games.com


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## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

Come to think of it, in my rant I forgot to post actual rankings for the Eastern Conference:

1. Miami
2. Chicago
3. Detroit
4. Cleveland
5. Washington
6. Boston
7. New Jersey
8. ONE OF THESE WHAT I'LL CALL BUBBLE TEAMS: Milwaukee, Orlando, Indiana, Charlotte (assuming Okafor and May stay healthy and Morrison can make the transition from college to NBA. Of course, I emphasize "bubble team" and yes I know I need my head examined.)

WILL NOT ADVANCE TO POSTSEASON PLAY:

Atlanta, New York, Philadelphia, Toronto


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

Miami
Detroit
Cleveland
New Jersey
Chicago

Dunno about 6-8.


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## ravor44 (Feb 26, 2005)

1. Miami (Defending Champs, but they are getting older so the difference between 1-3 is just very little)
2. Bulls (I'm not convinced that they have the BEST offseason, but getting Big Ben helps them a lot)
3. Nets (Good offseason for them, developing Krstic and Wright this offseason could help)
4. Cleveland (Well, LeBron needs more from his supporting cast to sneak top-3)
5. Detroit (Losing Big Ben will hurt, now Billups, Hamilton and Prince need to step-up their game)

6-8. Up for Grabs between Indiana, Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee, Orlando and Charlotte


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## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

1: Miami
2: Detroit
3: Chicago
4: Cleveland
5: New Jersey
6: Indiana
7: Milwaukee
8: Orlando

--------------------------------------------

9: Charlotte
10: Boston
11: Washington
12: Toronto
13: Philadelphia
14: New York
15: Atlanta


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Nice Kerouac Avatar. Have you read Big Sur? Frickin' Genius. Dr. Sax as well.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Showtyme said:


> Ariza's my darkhorse for MIP. Ben Wallace can't really shoot or dribble. Does that make him useless?
> 
> Also, Ariza actually isn't a bad shooter anyway. And more importantly, he can score, even if not from shooting. I'd put him down for a very reliable 10 and 6, with possibly 1 steal and 1 block. That's high impact and he's really got some athletic skills from the wing.
> 
> ...


Wallace was STILL an impact player....Ariza has NONE of those qualities to lead one to believe he'll improve...

if anything, DARKO will win most improved...


----------



## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

re:Trevor Ariza

i debated on another board about this kid; sorry, imo, he has no discernable nba skill other than running and jumping. the nbdl, cba, and other semi-professional leagues is where this kid belongs. he is not an nba talent. whoever convinced him he should enter the league early should be arrested for impersonating an nba talent evaluator. i'm still amazed that he was even offered another minimum deal. however, i suppose those teams are still hoping for his "potential" to be realized.


strictly in the vernacular.....the boy's got no game.......


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

1: Miami
2: Detroit
*3: Chicago*
4: Cleveland
5: New Jersey
6: Orlando
7: Milwaukee
8: Washington



9: Indiana
10: Boston
11: Charlotte
12: Toronto
13: New York
14: Philadelphia
15: Atlanta


i don't see New Jersey really being better than the Bulls this season. Kidd is aging and Vince could be very distracted with his own divorce issues going on. but they're a tough, veteran team. I think Orlando's run at the end of the season last year was not a mirage. and after watching Howard and Darko in the worlds, this team has some real dangerous talent up front. Orlando's backcourt? not scary.

i think the real toss up is 8-9 - could be either washington or indiana, but i give the edge to the wizards only cause there has been so much upheaval in pacerland recently and i think J.O'Neal is the most overrated player in the league. charmin isn't as soft as him. 

toronto and charlotte all have nice teams. young and not really a threat this season, but in a few years? watch OUT! i am seriously impressed with the overhaul they're doing up in canada. 

at the top it has to be Miami and Detroit. i did have a bold prediction earlier that the Bulls would win the central, and that could still be the case, but realistically it's Detroit topping the central with the Bulls _just edging out_ the LeBrons, record-wise. I think the Bulls have a more balanced team than the Cavs. 

and despite the coaching change in NYC the Knicks will still continue to suck. why? do you think they have even one player who night in and night out _wants_ to play defense? exactly.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

The ROY said:


> Wallace was STILL an impact player....Ariza has NONE of those qualities to lead one to believe he'll improve...
> 
> if anything, DARKO will win most improved...


I agree with all the Ariza bashing, he doesn't really have any skills to speak of besides athletisism.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

1)Miami-Defending champs and everyone coming back 59 wins
2)Chicago-The best defensive team in the league and a pretty good bench 55 wins
3)New Jersey-Improved their bench from terrible to mediocre but Collins is still starting 52 wins
4)Detroit-Flip Saunders didn't like playing 4 on 5 with Ben. Now let's see what they do. 50 wins
5)Cleveland-Lebron with a poor supporting cast. Let's what Hughes does when healthy. 49 wins
6)Indiana-Harrington trade gives them a tough team, but nothing more. 45 wins
7)Orlando-They've been great since Francis left. Maybe Hill will even be healthy. 44 wins
8)Washington-Butler,Jamison, Arenas. If they can to play team D they're dangerous. 42 wins
9)Milwaukee-Good offseason, but not there yet. Wait till Charlie and Bogut develop. 41 wins
10)Charlotte-A team for the future. I like the Morrison selection. 38 wins
11)Toronto-Got rid of Mike James for a pass first PG, but they're still rebuilding. 36 wins
12)Boston-Got tons of young talent to go after AI and couldn't get him. 33 wins
13)Philedelphia-AI and Chris Webber is a bad combo. They need to start from scratch. 30 wins
14)New York-Isiah needs to trade Francis for KMart if this team is to work. 28 wins
15)Atlanta-Traded Harrington for a 1st rounder. Do they even care about winning?18 wins


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

Trevor Ariza is absolutely horrible.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i find the trevor ariza bashing unwarranted.

he is a decent player who is just 21 .

he plays defense, rebounds, runs the floor and he can handle the ball well enough .

he just isn't a scorer at this point in his career but he's shown that he may develop into at least a passable scorer in the near future.

you guys are talking about him like he's the next skita. if he were a bull he's be loved on this board but since he recently wore the dreaded knickerbocker uni he'll find almost all negativity here .


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Flash is the Future said:


> 1)Miami-Defending champs and everyone coming back
> 2)Chicago-The best defensive team in the league and a pretty good bench
> 3)New Jersey-Improved their bench from terrible to mediocre but Collins is still starting
> 4)Detroit-Flip Saunders didn't like playing 4 on 5 with Ben. Now let's see what they do.
> ...


Atlanta's definintely looking like the front-runner for the Oden sweepstakes.

And Hughes healthy in Cleveland still wasn't the Hughes of old. He looked like the OLD 76's Hughes that only averaged a few points and that was it.


----------



## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

1. Miami - Barring injuries to their older players (epecially Shaq) they're still the champs and they really didn't lose much over the offseason (they didn't improve much either)

2. Cleveland - Lebron, a healthy Hughes, an improved Varejo, resigned Gooden and the rest of their cast and they're a pretty darned good team.

3. Detriot - Still a damn good, veteran team. Losing Wallace might hurt, but it might help them too. Kinda loosen up the offensive side of things.

4. Chicago - Everything appears to be in place for this season. Let's see if it all comes together.

5. Nets - Kidd ain't getting any younger. I really like Kristic. Carter is a nagging injury away from bringing them down from elite to average.

6. Orlando - They'll have the best young front line in the league. Howard and Darko are going to wreak havoc. Nelson is a fine PG but they're lacking on the wings. Still a very good ballclub.

7. Washington - Arenas, Jamison and Butler. As good an offensive trio in the league. Not much defense though. Losing Jefferies won't really effect them all that much.

8. Indiana - Before the Harrington trade, I would have put Milwaukee here. Getting Harrington for essentially nothing tipped the scales in their favor.

9. Milwaukee - Lots of good young pieces. They need a little time to play together. May start slow and come on strong.

10. Toronto - Another good young team. Lots of potential but they need time together.

11. Charlotte - Along with Milwaukee and Toronto - good young talent. Morrison is going to shine there. They need some more seasoning, but they play damn hard and they keep comming at you. I really like how they've gone about patiently building that team from nothing.

12. Boston - I'm not all that high on their youth and Paul Pierce can't do it all by himself. Bassy ain't the answer.

13. New York - May be a little better under Thomas, but not enough to make a differnce. Change the Chef all you want, until you get better ingredients it's still gonna taste like crap.

14. Philly - I'm just waiting for them to implode. AI was on the block all summer and that's got to effect him. Webber is just plain old and after that, there aint much there.

15. Atlanta - Trading Harrington for the future. Youth will be served this year. Really raw, young players but they're long and athletic. They may lose a lot and make a lot of mistakes but they'll also drop your jaw more than a few times when it all comes together. They'll make Philly and New York work to stay ahead of them.

I think the top five are pretty set. Could finish in any order. Then there's six thru 11. Again, they could finish in any order. I wouldn't be shocked if Charlotte/Toronto/Milwaukee made the playoffs. Boston is kind of better than the bottom three but not quite as good as the teams above them. Then the bottom feeders, NY, Philly and Atlanta. I don't hold out much hope for them. At least I can understand what the Hawks are doing. The Knicks and Sixers are just spinning their wheels.


----------



## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> i find the trevor ariza bashing unwarranted.
> 
> he is a decent player who is just 21 .
> 
> ...


No. Trevor Ariza handling the ball makes Wally Szczerbiak look like Allen Iverson.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

fl_flash said:


> 11. Charlotte - Along with Milwaukee and Toronto - good young talent. Morrison is going to shine there. They need some more seasoning, but they play damn hard and they keep comming at you. I really like how they've gone about patiently building that team from nothing.


I agree...

The Morrison/Okafor/Felton trio should be a force down the line. I don't think Gerald Wallace is gonna be in Charlotte long term unless they start wiinning now though.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> No. Trevor Ariza handling the ball makes Wally Szczerbiak look like Allen Iverson.



and yet he played point forward at times in summer league last year...amazing , so i guess wally Z is actually a reincarnated larry bird


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> and yet he played point forward at times in summer league last year...amazing , so i guess wally Z is actually a reincarnated larry bird


get out of here, no way could he play point forward with any effectiveness(not to say the coaching staff didn't throw him into the fire). He is no where close to even being an average ball handler for a 3.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Ariza's not the next Jordan, but I definitely think he can be a scrappy bench 3 in this league, and if that includes some decent defense and athleticism on the court, that's worth watching.

He's NOT the next Linton Johnson. He's significantly better, I think. But I guess we'll see. I only mentioned him because he's going to get a chance to play, since Orlando lacks at the wing spots.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Showtyme said:


> Ariza's not the next Jordan, but I definitely think he can be a scrappy bench 3 in this league, and if that includes some decent defense and athleticism on the court, that's worth watching.
> 
> He's NOT the next Linton Johnson. He's significantly better, I think. But I guess we'll see. I only mentioned him because he's going to get a chance to play, since Orlando lacks at the wing spots.


I think he will be a decent player in the league, but his handle and shot are pretty bad. His shot will probably not ever be too good, ball handling is something I think he could improve on substantially but right now it's not good.


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## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

allright so I guess what you're saying is:

any team that starts Ariza at the 3 is simply NOT a championship caliber team.



I remember thinking that Trevor was pretty solid as a rookie, and that he would develop into a useful player as he got a little older. I never saw him as more than a complimentary player though - a guy who would be great to have off the bench, and could start be a spot starter -- particularly if your team already has good scorers at the 2 and 4 spots. I really saw him as a potential 'glue' guy, in that he'd play defense, get some rebounds and hustle.
Remains to be seen if he can do this -- but Orlando is a good spot to give him a shot. They *do* have a guy who can shoot at the 2 in Reddick, they have guys with scoring ability at 4 and 5 with Darko and Dwight -- but it looks like everyone is still riding the potential tag, and have yet to fully translate 'scoring ability' into a consistent 20pts per game.
What I'd really say is this: I like Ariza's fit on the Magic. he may not pan out to be as productive as I think he can be, but his mentality and ability are a fit for what that club needs along with all the other young talent they have brewing there. Looks like a really dangerous team in another 2 or 3 years.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Looks like a really dangerous team in another 2 or 3 years.


when trevor and his suspect game will be purged from the roster.

kidding aside, his upside at best is gerald wallace; another player who struggled as an early nba entrant, sat on the bench for a good sacramento team and is just now showing his abilities with the bobcat. ariza, i'm doubtful will be as fortunate.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Miami
Detroit 
Chicago. Amazing team defense goes alot farther then star players.
Cleveland
Nets
Washington
Orlando
Milwuakee


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## gregorius (Apr 26, 2005)

1. Heat
2. Cavs
3. Bulls
4. Pistons
5. Nets
6. Pacers
7. Wiz
8. Bobcats
---------------
9. Bucks
10. Magic
11. Sixers
12. Celtics
13. Hawks
14. Knicks
15. Raps


the top 5 will be separated by less than 5 games total IMO.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

*Cleveland (3rd -- 50-32)*

Deep roster, mix of youth and experience, low roster turn-over. More experience playing together. If this team plays defense, they'd be a juggernaught. Add a healthy Larry Hughes and Scott Pollard to an already deep mix..... this team should be the team to beat in the East.

*Detroit (1st -- 64-18)*

Lost Big Ben. Added Nazr. Net loss. Still have an outstanding starting 4. Defense will get weaker due to loss of Big Ben and further deterioration under Flip Saunders. Still an intimidating team, but will come back to the pack.

*Miami (2nd -- 52-30)*

Same roster, only one year older. In their case, this doesn't translate into one year better. Look for Shaq to continue to deteriorate, and for this team to be hit by injuries. Still major threat in play-offs, but not going to have the best regular season record.

*Chicago (7th -- 41-41)*

Lost Tyson, Pargo, O'Fella. Gained Tyrus, Big Ben, Thabo, PJ, Viktor. Cap'n Kirk is leading the Worlds, Nocioni is gonna see the Cap'n in the finals. Great depth, mix of youth and vets.

*Indiana (6th -- 41-41)*

Lost Peja & Pollard, Added Al Harrington. I see an improvement over last season.

*Orlando (10th -- 36-46)*

Late season surge last season leads into beginning of this season. Dwight and Darko continue to play well together. Need good perimeter play to improve.

*New Jersey(4th -- 49-33)*

Meh... I never liked them last year, and they haven't added anything. Look for Kidd, Carter, and RJeff to be their main cogs. Any of those three get injured, and this team could be lotto-bound.

*Milwaukee (8th -- 40-42)*

Should be above .500 this season. Nice roster with balance and youth. Not an intimidating crew, but will win more than they lose.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Washington (5th -- 42-40)*

Arenas, Jamison, & Butler...... I'm not sure how they ranked so high last season. Any of those three gets hurt..... This team is a likely candidate for a season long crash.

*Toronto (12th -- 27-55)*
*Philadelphia (9th -- 38-34)*
*Boston (11th -- 33-49)*
*Charlotte (13th -- 26-56)*
*Atlanta (14th -- 26-56)*
*New York (15th -- 23-59)*


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Hustle said:


> get out of here, no way could he play point forward with any effectiveness(not to say the coaching staff didn't throw him into the fire). He is no where close to even being an average ball handler for a 3.


he usually played guard in that summer league , helping nate with the ballhandling.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

If we are ranking them by seeding, i think it should go like this:

1)Heat
2)Cavaliers
3)Nets
4)Bulls
5)Pistons
6)Pacers
7)Magic
8)Raptors
-----
9)Wizards
10)Bucks
11)Sixers
12)Knicks
13)Bobcats
14)Celtics
15)Hawks


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

The Cavs are getting crazy overrated on this board. They're a 4 seed at best. The supporting cast doesn't compliment LBJ well.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Flash is the Future said:


> The Cavs are getting crazy overrated on this board. They're a 4 seed at best. The supporting cast doesn't compliment LBJ well.


i really dont care. The 2-5 seeds in the east are too hard to determine because all those teams are at similar levels-Bulls,Nets,Cavs, and Pistons


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

1. *Miami:* They are bringing back their entire championship team anyone that doesnt think they are the class of the eastern conferance is an idiot.
2.*Detroit:*They have the most balanced scoring attack in the NBA and still have tremendous perimeter defense with Billups and Tayshaun.
3.*Chicago:* Aside from the obvious of getting Ben Wallace they had a good offseason Chandler was one if the most overpaid bigmen in the league and getting Tyrus Thomas for Eddy Curry is already a horrible rip off, if they get their hands on Oden or Noah next June Mr. Thomas should be banned from the league for giving the bulls 6 more titles.
4.*Nets:* Kidd, Jefferson and Carter and a developing Kristic are very scary, Kidd will have a desperation this season as I dont see him having too many more chances for a ring.
5.*Cavs:* Lebron James, enough said.
6.*Magic:* God I love Howard he will be the best power forward in the NBA this year.
7.*Bucks:* Bogut and Villenueva could amp it up this year and the Bucks could be as high as a fifth seed their overall lack of experiance will probably mean struggling to make the playoffs. Very bright future.
8.*Wizards:* Arenas and Jamison have enough to carry this team to the playoffs.
9.*Pacers:* O'Neal and Harrington will be nice I just dont feel they have enough elsewere to make the playoffs although they could easily be better than Orlando, Milwaukee, and Washington. Probably the last team on this list with a legit shot at the postseason.
10.*Bobcats:* Just too young, if Morrison is the real deal they will be a playoff team in 07-08.
11.*Raptors:* Ford to Bosh is something you will hear alot this year, ford to Bargnani probably not as often.
12.*Sixers:* AI squared and a bunch of crap.
13.*Celtics:* Dont know a whole hell of alot about the Celtics except that they are better than New York and Atlanta.
14.*Knicks:* Jared Jeffries? This guy is treating the Knicks like they are the CBA.
15.*Hawks:* Al Harrington for a mid first round pick? Sheldon Williams at 5? Maybe Micheal Vick can play some basketball too because Joe Johnson has no one to get him the ball.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Flash is the Future said:


> The Cavs are getting crazy overrated on this board. They're a 4 seed at best. The supporting cast doesn't compliment LBJ well.


Larry Hughes, Sideshow Bob, Ilgauskas, Gooden, Marshall, Pollard, Luke Jackson, Eric Snow??

What am I missing? They finished last season 2 wins behind the Heats, subtracted Marty Andrews, and added a healthy Hughes, Scott Pollard, & Shannon Brown. Are you predicting they'll be worse than last season? I just don't see it. Until they fall on their faces, they're the team to beat in the regular season.

I don't see them passing Miami, Detroit, or Chicago in the play-offs, though.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

2dumb2live said:


> i really dont care. The 2-5 seeds in the east are too hard to determine because all those teams are at similar levels-Bulls,Nets,Cavs, and Pistons


I don't see why anyone would think Miami is a lock for the #1 seed. I agree the top spots are up for grabs but Miami is in that bag as well. They were only 3 loses away from being a 4 seed last year. Like I've said before they are older than last year, and because Shaq is on the team will not kick into high gear until the playoffs.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Wynn said:


> Larry Hughes, Sideshow Bob, Ilgauskas, Gooden, Marshall, Pollard, Luke Jackson, Eric Snow??
> 
> What am I missing? They finished last season 2 wins behind the Heats, subtracted Marty Andrews, and added a healthy Hughes, Scott Pollard, & Shannon Brown. Are you predicting they'll be worse than last season? I just don't see it. Until they fall on their faces, they're the team to beat in the regular season.
> 
> I don't see them passing Miami, Detroit, or Chicago in the play-offs, though.


 I'm saying they'll be a 4 or 5 seed. The Heat, Nets, Bulls, and maybe the Pistons are better than them. In an improved Eastern conference I don't think they'll get 50 wins this year.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Hustle said:


> I don't see why anyone would think Miami is a lock for the #1 seed. I agree the top spots are up for grabs but Miami is in that bag as well. They were only 3 loses away from being a 4 seed last year. Like I've said before they are older than last year, and because Shaq is on the team will not kick into high gear until the playoffs.


 They won't, but as the defending champs it's automatic they're ranked #1. Also, everyone's older, including Wade and Haslem, making both of them better. With Miami, I wouldn't bring up last year's regular season if I were you. Shaq missed like the first 18 games, and even after he came back they had to put up with so much garbage from the media. I think Shaq will miss about 16 games this year, but they won't all be in a row, making them more bearable.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Yeah. Miaimi suffered quite a few injuries last season to Haslem and Shaq.^^


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Flash is the Future said:


> They won't, but as the defending champs it's automatic they're ranked #1. Also, everyone's older, including Wade and Haslem, making both of them better.


I'd say Shaq being a year older out weighs Wade being a year older. Any way you put it 52 wins last year and no changes how are they going to be dominant over the 2-5 spots.


> With Miami, I wouldn't bring up last year's regular season if I were you. Shaq missed like the first 18 games, and even after he came back they had to put up with so much garbage from the media. I think Shaq will miss about 16 games this year, but they won't all be in a row, making them more bearable.


Like you said Shaq is going to miss games again, I don't think when is going to make a huge difference when, and the media is not effecting Shaq's game.


> Yeah. Miaimi suffered quite a few injuries last season to Haslem and Shaq.^^


Haslem missed one game?


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Hustle said:


> Haslem missed one game?


Haslem plays hurt a lot. He'll play no matter what, but he won't be as effective. Any way the reason we had only 52 wins last year was because the beginning of the year was a disaster. JWill was out, Posey was out, and Shaq was out, Shandon Anderson was out, we hadn't yet acquired Derek Anderson, and Doleac was hurt so Zo was being backed up by Udonis and Simien. This was before we had Pat. Take out the beginning of the year when everything was a disaster and the end when we stopped trying and you get a 42-16 record for Miami. We can withstand Shaq being out. As long as Doleac is healthy and we have our reserves. 


Hustle said:


> Like you said Shaq is going to miss games again, I don't think when is going to make a huge difference when, and the media is not effecting Shaq's game.


I agree with you that Shaq will miss like 16 games. However, it makes a huge difference when. It's difficult for Zo to start 16 games in a row. However, he can have monster numbers in the occasional start. Especially with a true backup in Doleac behind him as opposed to Haslem. The media wasn't affecting Shaq's game, but they were affecting how we played as a team. 


Hustle said:


> I'd say Shaq being a year older out weighs Wade being a year older. Any way you put it 52 wins last year and no changes how are they going to be dominant over the 2-5 spots.


I would say Wade being a year older outweighs Shaq being a year older. Wade has improved significantly each offseason of his career. Since he now has a good 3point shot he'll be unguardable. He'll probably keep his finals form, just a little bit turned down. He'll probably average around 30/7/6/2/1 on 50% and 35%. Shaq around 19/9/2/0.5/2. And that's enough. It's more about Shaq's presence than his numbers these days. Shaq was still drawing doubleteams on every touch in the Finals. That's good enough for me, because if he doesn't get doubled he'll score like 22 ppg. They won't dominate until the playoffs, but they should be #1 with about 57-59 wins. Bulls will get about 55 wins.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Flash is the Future said:


> Haslem plays hurt a lot. He'll play no matter what, but he won't be as effective. Any way the reason we had only 52 wins last year was because the beginning of the year was a disaster. JWill was out, Posey was out, and Shaq was out, Shandon Anderson was out, we hadn't yet acquired Derek Anderson, and Doleac was hurt so Zo was being backed up by Udonis and Simien. This was before we had Pat. Take out the beginning of the year when everything was a disaster and the end when we stopped trying and you get a 42-16 record for Miami. We can withstand Shaq being out. As long as Doleac is healthy and we have our reserves.


While you make a good point, there is always going to be injuries. Detriot still would have had a better record if that 42-16 was the pace they played throughout the season, and I of course think the Pistons will regress, still it's impossible for me to accept Miami is hands down going to take the east, when even if everything would've gone right last year they still wouldn't have.



> I agree with you that Shaq will miss like 16 games. *However, it makes a huge difference when. It's difficult for Zo to start 16 games in a row. However, he can have monster numbers in the occasional start.* Especially with a true backup in Doleac behind him as opposed to Haslem. The media wasn't affecting Shaq's game, but they were affecting how we played as a team.


That's a very good point that had not crossed my mind. Any arguement about the media making the Heat not play as well is not going away even if it makes a difference.


> They won't dominate until the playoffs, but they should be #1 with about 57-59 wins. Bulls will get about 55 wins


I was never argueing that Miami can't win the east, only that they are going to have to compete with the other teams for it. 57 wins compared to 55 sounds like competition. As for the Wade and Shaq a year older debate, health is too much of a factor to speculate further from my side.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

> While you make a good point, there is always going to be injuries. Detriot still would have had a better record if that 42-16 was the pace they played throughout the season, and I of course think the Pistons will regress, still it's impossible for me to accept Miami is hands down going to take the east, when even if everything would've gone right last year they still wouldn't have.


True. I don't think hands down we'll take it, but I think we'll get the #1 seed. The Pistons have regressed a lot and there's no longer a likely 60 win team in the East. I think the difference between this season and last season is that Shaq likely won't be out 16 games straight. He'll probably play like 64-66 but Zo will be able to take over then.


> That's a very good point that had not crossed my mind. Any arguement about the media making the Heat not play as well is not going away even if it makes a difference.


When I said media, I meant that they were putting so much doubt in the air that even the Heat players weren't sure they could win it all. Now they are sure.
As for winning the East, it will be a competition, but I think the more experienced team will win. I agree that it's too early to talk about health.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

*The Boards Eastern Conference Playoff Rankings (so far, 18 posters)*
1. Miami (133 points)
2. Chicago (108 points)
3. Detriot (106 points)
4. Clevland (97 points)
5. New Jersey (83 points)
6. Indiana (31 points)
7. Orlando (29 points)
8. Washington (24 points)

9. Milwaukee (14 points)

*Points were awarded by taking the rank each person assigned to a team and flipped it so that a #1 seed got 8 point the #2 team got 7 points and so on.
_*The top 8 were taken from all people who posted(showtyme Wash is your 8, someone else only had 7 definitivly ranked but I let it slide)_
*Those who grouped (impossible to calculate) or only ranked the top 5 were not included (could scew results if people chose to not have NJ, Chi, Clev, Det, or Mia in top 5)


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## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

Hustle: I'm gonna screw up your rankings!!

my breakdown of the East:

Chicago: #1 seed
Detroit: also ran
Miami: also ran
Cleveland: also ran
Milwaukee: also ran
Indiana: also ran
Orlando: also ran
Philly: also ran
New York: also ran
New Jersey: also ran
Atlanta: also ran
Toronto: also ran
Washington: also ran
Boston: also ran
Charlotte: also ran

:banana: :banana: :banana:


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Wishbone said:


> Hustle: I'm gonna screw up your rankings!!


you've been disqualified, see the third asterisks, astaricts, whatever


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## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

Hustle said:


> you've been disqualified, see the third asterisks, astaricts, whatever


damnit. :curse: :curse: :curse: 





:biggrin:


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## gregorius (Apr 26, 2005)

Flash is the Future said:


> The Cavs are getting crazy overrated on this board. They're a 4 seed at best. *The supporting cast doesn't compliment LBJ well*.





Flash is the Future said:


> I'm saying they'll be a 4 or 5 seed. The Heat, Nets, Bulls, and maybe the Pistons are better than them. In an improved Eastern conference I don't think they'll get 50 wins this year.



That does'nt matter pal. LBJ proved last year he could carry an average team almost to the ECF...getting there this year would'nt exactly be a stretch. I doubt they'll lose many close games if he has the ball in his hands, he'll either hit the game winner or be given the game winning FT's. We may have more talent but we're less eyecatching and lack that star name to guarantee us high FT totals.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

gregorius said:


> That does'nt matter pal. LBJ proved last year he could carry an average team almost to the ECF...getting there this year would'nt exactly be a stretch. I doubt they'll lose many close games if he has the ball in his hands, he'll either hit the game winner or be given the game winning FT's. We may have more talent but we're less eyecatching and lack that star name to guarantee us high FT totals.


 I'm a Heat fan by the way. I'm not a true Bulls fan. I just post here because the Heat board is always dead. LBJ proved he could almost carry the Cavs to the ECFs against an exhausted Pistons team that couldn't make a shot. That won't happen again. They'll be knocked out in the 1st round or the second round. I'm not that big a fan of Hughes, unless he comes back like he was in Washington. There's a reason they're trying to trade the supporting cast there for expiring contracts. It's not good enough. The East has improved drastically and the only thing the Cavs have going for them is that LBJ willl be better.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> I'm not that big a fan of Hughes, unless he comes back like he was in Washington. There's a reason they're trying to trade the supporting cast there for expiring contracts. It's not good enough. The East has improved drastically and the only thing the Cavs have going for them is that LBJ willl be better.


chalk me up for the non-believers in cleveland; hughes is nice, but he's quite overrated, imo. however, i haven't seen evidence of the cav trying to trade the "supporting cast" for expiring contracts. at any rate, i agree that the cavs biggest asset is the improved play of james. that could possibly get them further than last year, but i expect the bull depth (having 2-3 guys to throw at james defensively) to prove too much for the cav to overcome. no one else on their roster looks to be someone who'll beat you, just guys that can make an occasional open shot. washington's defense was so outlandishly atrocious last season that i'd almost state that the cav won by default. 3 games decided by a last second shot (including the game in which james traveled while initiating contact on a drive) or missed free throws (how many games would arenas do that in again if provided the opportunity) don't give me quakes about cleveland's talent level as a whole being greater than the bull. a 50 win season is nice, even without hughes for the bulk but i feel this team is 1 significant injury away from being very average, even with lebron.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

BULLHITTER said:


> chalk me up for the non-believers in cleveland; hughes is nice, but he's quite overrated, imo. however, i haven't seen evidence of the cav trying to trade the "supporting cast" for expiring contracts. at any rate, i agree that the cavs biggest asset is the improved play of james. that could possibly get them further than last year, but i expect the bull depth (having 2-3 guys to throw at james defensively) to prove too much for the cav to overcome.* no one else on their roster looks to be someone who'll beat you,* just guys that can make an occasional open shot. washington's defense was so outlandishly atrocious last season that i'd almost state that the cav won by default. 3 games decided by a last second shot (including the game in which james traveled while initiating contact on a drive) or missed free throws (how many games would arenas do that in again if provided the opportunity) don't give me quakes about cleveland's talent level as a whole being greater than the bull. a 50 win season is nice, even without hughes for the bulk but i feel this team is 1 significant injury away from being very average, even with lebron.


Z is a major force when he's healthy. He'll give the Bulls fits, particularly when teamed with another big like Gooden. 

Hughes and Marshall can hit the open J, and they're going to get plenty of them with teams doubling LBJ and Z. 

Hughes, LBJ, and Z are also decent defensive players.

The Cavs are deep, long and strong. They could use a bit more 3pt shooting and a better point guard, but they will be a tough opponent as long as Z and LBJ are healthy and playing well.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Z is a major force when he's healthy. He'll give the Bulls fits, particularly when teamed with another big like Gooden.


ben wallace's strength and speed neutralized Z totally in last season's playoff; plus Z's streak of health, while better than before, is still a huge question mark. gooden's ok; he wasn't my choice for a guy the bull should go after, but i'll stick with deng and nocioni as gooden's equal




> Hughes and Marshall can hit the open J, and they're going to get plenty of them with teams doubling LBJ and Z.


not sure if the bull will do a great deal of doubling off LBJ in that there's so many guys who'll take turns guarding him. further i feel deng is a great matchup defensively; at least as good as someone can be against him.



> Hughes, LBJ, and Z are also decent defensive players.


hughes gets steals, which is an overrated stat moreso than straight up m2m. Z is too slow to be considered anything other than a space eater in the paint



> The Cavs are deep, long and strong.


past james, who's got a track record of success? marshall's a journeyman, newble's a 12th man, snow is a journeyman, jones= journeyman with a specialty, 2 picks who could contribute (i am a fan of shannon brown) but deep isn't a word i'd use to describe their squad. i may have missed somebody, but if i did they're lower on the food chain than the abovementioned.



> They could use a bit more 3pt shooting and a better point guard, but they will be a tough opponent as long as Z and LBJ are healthy and playing well.


i agree


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## gregorius (Apr 26, 2005)

you're missing the point flash..

Stern's NBA needs superstars. Wade and LBJ are his superstars. Their rivalry is his biggest money maker for the next 10 years. The supporting casts are irrelevant. Both teams will win a helluva lot of games from now on.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

gregorius said:


> you're missing the point flash..
> 
> Stern's NBA needs superstars. Wade and LBJ are his superstars. Their rivalry is his biggest money maker for the next 10 years. The supporting casts are irrelevant. Both teams will win a helluva lot of games from now on.


 There's absolutley no way that Stern would rig it to get Wade vs. Lebron. Cavs will get 48-49 wins and will get knocked in the first round or maybe in the second.


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## gregorius (Apr 26, 2005)

he does'nt have to rig it, the guys instructed ref's to reward reckless drives to the basket by 'superstar' players with free throws..

Wade and LBJ will benefit most from this.....in fact they already have.

did you see the sickening whistle fest aka this years Finals?


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

gregorius said:


> he does'nt have to rig it, the guys instructed ref's to reward reckless drives to the basket by 'superstar' players with free throws..
> 
> Wade and LBJ will benefit most from this.....in fact they already have.
> 
> did you see the sickening whistle fest aka this years Finals?


It's sad but true. But it's nothing new, the Bulls might have benefited from this more than any other franchise. The difference now is that these whistles are being blown for anticipatory fouls that often times are super weak and sometimes non-existent, in the Jordan era you could get much more physical defensivily, the refs were just more sensative to Micheal. I am not a fan of a lot of the rule changes and the way the games are being called to increase scoring with free throws. If the NBA took a page out of the NCAA's notebook that would be sweet.


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## gregorius (Apr 26, 2005)

Hustle said:


> It's sad but true. But it's nothing new, the Bulls might have benefited from this more than any other franchise. The difference now is that these whistles are being blown for anticipatory fouls that often times are super weak and sometimes non-existent, in the Jordan era you could get much more physical defensivily, the refs were just more sensative to Micheal. I am not a fan of a lot of the rule changes and the way the games are being called to increase scoring with free throws. If the NBA took a page out of the NCAA's notebook that would be sweet.


i know it sounds cynical but as you say it's sad but true.

at least in the Jordan era some physical contact was allowed.

Maybe i'm wearing my Bulls homer hat but i was watching some of those old '98 Finals tapes recently and MJ was getting hacked hard left right and centre, 99% of the FT's he got were earned....though of course he did get the benefit of the doubt from time to time. 

thats the difference between him and guys like Wade and LBJ...he earned his FT's, they don't...their given them.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

gregorius said:


> i know it sounds cynical but as you say it's sad but true.
> 
> at least in the Jordan era some physical contact was allowed.
> 
> ...


 The NBA has different rules now. No more handchecking etc. Many would argue that based on the standard for the 90s Jordan wasn't earning them like others had too.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Flash is the Future said:


> The NBA has different rules now. No more handchecking etc. Many would argue that based on the standard for the 90s Jordan wasn't earning them like others had too.


that is a fact, even was given the name the Jordan Rules. But when he drove into the lane he was getting contact that was effecting his shot or drive even if ever so slightly. Wade and Lebron are getting calls for guys brushing them with their hands during a drive and it having no effect on the game. While it might be the same amount of favoritism, it's far more ridiculous now.


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## bigdbucks (Jun 7, 2002)

1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Nets
4. Pistons
5. Cavs
6. Bucks
7. Magic
8. Sixers


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