# preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv: Game Thread



## yellow

Hello 

My name is Udi and i am a staff member from "Tzahevet" the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans internet site 

we are all waiting for the game Sun 16 at yr arena 13:00 and we hope to enjoy 


45 Championships, 35 Cups, 5 European Cups 
Maccabi Elite Tel Aviv is the first and most successful basketball club in Israel.
It all started in the mid-thirties in the center of Tel Aviv as part of the Maccabi Tel Aviv Sports Club (founded in 1906), which has been active in many other sports like Soccer (17 league title), Handball, Volleyball, Tennis, Table Tennis, Track & Field, Swimming, Wrestling, Weight Lifting & Judo (1992 Olympic silver medallist Yael Arad was a member of the club).
The Basketball League in Israel started in 1954 and Maccabi Tel Aviv were the first champions. They have dominated the championship ever since, winning the title 45 times, including a run of 23 titles in a row between 1970 & 1992, most probably a world record. The team has also won the national cup 35 times. Maccabi is considered as Israel’s national sporting representative in the world.
Another unique record was the fact that during the seventies Maccabi Tel Aviv had three teams playing in the national league: two in the men’s and one in the women’s.
Since 1969 Maccabi Tel Aviv has been sponsored by ELITE, Israel’s largest food company and it also carries its name.
Most of Maccabi head coaches, were ex-players at the club: The late Yehoshua Rozin was involved with the club for 40 years; Ralph Klein started as an 18 years old player and later had several spells as a coach and led the club to its first European title in 1977. Zvi Sherf played for Maccabi’s second team and coached the team on three spells. All of them were also in charge of the national team.
Maccabi Tel Aviv has always been proud to provide the national team with a large number of players. Five of Maccabi players, headed by the late Avraham Shneur, were on the team which represented Israel in its first European Championship in 1953 in Moscow.
Tanhum Cohen-Mints was one of Europe’s top centers in the sixties and was selected for the first European All Star Team which played in Madrid in 1964. Mickey Berkowitz, Motty Aroesti, Lou Silver & Eric Minkin, played a major part in winning the silver medal in the European Championship in 1979 in Torino.
Doron Jamchy played 16 years for the national team and holds the record for appearances (191 international games) and points scored (3,515).
Four of Maccabi players are members of the national team : Shelef, Burstein, Halperin & Green .
Maccabi Tel Aviv was the first Israeli club to enter the European Cup for Champions in 1958. Since then they have played 577 games in European competitions and were the first and only Israeli club to play in a final (1967 Cup Winners Cup) and to win the Champions Cup on five occasions (1977, 1981, 2001, 2004, 2005). So far Maccabi has played in 11 Champions Cup Finals. In 1980 Maccabi won the Intercontinental Cup.
In 1994 and 2004 Maccabi Tel Aviv Basketball Club organized the European Final Four in Tel Aviv.
In the 2002/03 season, Maccabi Elite Tel Aviv participated for the first time in the Adriatic League and ended the regular season in first place with a 17-4 record. The Final Four was to be played in Tel Aviv but because of the war in Iraq, was switched to Ljubljana. Maccabi reached the final but lost 88-91 to Croatian club KK Zadar.
European All Star Selections played four times in Tel Aviv in honor of Maccabi Elite Tel Aviv players: Tani Cohen Mints, Tal Brody, Lou Silver and Mickey Berkowitz. Seven of Maccabi Tel Aviv players played for European All Star Selections: Cohen Mints, Brody, Silver, Berkowitz, Jamchy, Nadav Henefeld & Oded Katash.
Maccabi Elite Tel Aviv was first Israeli team to take part in the McDonald Championship, in London in 1995. In December 1997 the club organized the FIBA Eurostars in which top European players clashed in the game between East and West selections. Five of Maccabi Elite players were selected to play in the Eurostars games: Nadav Henefeld, Oded Katash, Doron Sheffer, Randy White & Rashard Griffith. Captain Gur Shelef & Nikola Vujcic appeared In October 2002 in the Euroleague All Star team in an exhibition game in Madrid as part of Real Madrid Centenary celebrations. Maccabi Tel Aviv played in December 2002 in Madrid in the final event of those celebrations.
The Miami Heat who played in Yad Eliyahu Sports Palace in October 1999, was the fifth NBA team to play vs Maccabi in Tel Aviv.




Two in a row! That just about says it all concerning what Maccabi Tel Aviv accomplished by winning the 2004-05 Euroleague crown in Moscow. Maccabi's encore performance came on the road a year after it enjoyed a full home following in Tel Aviv. Although its margins of victory were higher the first time around, Maccabi seemed just as completely in command at the 2005 Final Four in Moscow. The champs raced ahead in both the semifinal and final, withstanding brief comeback attempts by Panathinaikos and Tau Ceramica, respectively. But Maccabi owned the fourth quarters, and thus left no doubt about its deservedness to be called the best team in Europe.
:clap: 





















BURSTEIN, TAL 









http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AOY


Sharon Shason









http://www.maccabi.co.il/MaccabiPersonalPlayer06800.asp?PLN=16

BASTON, MACEO 









http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BMP

SHARP, DERRICK 









http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AOU

SOLOMON, WILLIE









http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=COS

VUJCIC, NIKOLA 









http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=APB

PARKER, ANTHONY 









http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AOW

GREEN, YANIV 









http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=JGM

Kirk Penney









http://www.maccabi.co.il/MaccabiPersonalPlayer06800.asp?PLN=20

Jamie Arnold









http://www.maccabi.co.il/MaccabiPersonalPlayer06800.asp?PLN=23

Omri Casspi









http://www.maccabi.co.il/MaccabiPersonalPlayer06800.asp?PLN=14

Assaf Dotan









http://www.maccabi.co.il/MaccabiPersonalPlayer06800.asp?PLN=12


Regev Fanan








http://www.maccabi.co.il/MaccabiPersonalPlayer06800.asp?PLN=04

Pini Gershon










http://www.maccabi.co.il/MaccabiTheTeam06800.asp?TheTeam=CH


Sarunas Jasikevicius 
was with Maccabi in the last 2 years and now he is with the Pacers
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/sarunas_jasikevicius/index.html?nav=page

Maccabi home page

http://www.maccabi.co.il/english800.asp

few words about Tzahevet 

Tzahevet had started out as a wild hobby of a couple of “the idea freaks”, net-lovers, and of course, huge fans of Maccabi. 
Until some 6 years ago, the team didn’t have a worthy enough fan-site. 
the basketball lovers did not have a place to write, communicate and get updates. 
Tzahevet had started out as a small, solid fan site, without any sections or columns, and has developed to be Maccabi’s biggest fan site around. A staff of reporters, technical managers, and other guys and girls contribute their free time, only because of their profound love for the team, and in order to make the site blossom, and continue to be the warmest home on the net of Maccabi fans. The site includes coverage’s, and analyses of Maccabi’s opponents (in the Israeli league and in Europe), information and reports that concern Maccabi and the fans, personal columns, fan columns, tables, result-boards, statistical data, picture gallery, video library, and other attractions for the fans who surf on the site. Moreover, we are activating a fan-forum, one of the most prosperous and lively forums on the Internet,with over 5000 members 
“Tzahevet” does not belong to any group or organization, and therefore is not subordinated to anybody, and serves the interests of no one. It is important to note that “Tzahevet” is a site without any income, or any profit purposes. All of the work in the site is done thanks to volunteering of the fans themselves. We function in order to be a home for all of the Maccabi fans wherever, without any belongings, camps, routes or definitions. 
Our site is a Hebrew site 

Tzahevet fans will be happy to answer any of yr questions and to give you all the info about our team 

you can find here some video clips 

http://forum.tzahevet.co.il/viewtopic.php?t=17774 

its an open English Forum (not much in use ) 


and you can download from here 2 clips 2 

http://www.tzahevet.co.il/cmdb/video/the_clip/maccabi-tau-final-highlights.avi 

http://www.tzahevet.co.il/cmdb/video/the_clip/maccabi-pao-final4-highlights.avi 


Udi 

happy new year


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## madman

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

I might be going to the game and have 3rd row seats, if i do i'll have a lot of pics


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## yellow

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

Thx we will be happy to see them


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## kirk_2003

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

its maceo BASTON!!! player to look out for is vujcic of course...


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## vi3t_boi11

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*



kirk_2003 said:


> player to look out for is vujcic of course...


and Anthony Parker


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## kamego

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*



kirk_2003 said:


> its maceo BASTON!!!


Yeah it's my man from Michigan! I hope he scores 20 lol.


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## trick

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

Maceo coming back to the ACC :clap: :clap:


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## Turkish Delight

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

I'm excited to see Willie Solomon and Maceo Baston. 
Good luck!


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## yellow

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

here you can see few video clips from Maccabi last game 

http://www.maccabifans.co.il/MF/MF2/MF/elements/videos/drorvid/leaguestarsgame.mpg

http://www.maccabifans.co.il/MF/MF2...6/11.10.05/SportsNews.Highlights.11.10.05.wmv

3 Mace Baston clips 

http://www.maccabifans.co.il/MF/MF2...6/11.10.05/Mace.Dunks.Off.Kadosh.11.10.05.avi

http://www.maccabifans.co.il/MF/MF2...5-06/11.10.05/Mace.Blocks.ReDunk.11.10.05.avi

http://www.maccabifans.co.il/MF/MF2/MF/elements/videos/2005-06/11.10.05/Mace.Big.Block.11.10.05.avi

the clips are from the maccabifans site 


pls save as...

and if you cant see - you need to download 

http://download.divx.com/divx/DivX521XP2K.exe


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## 3 Pointer

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

Wasn't Penny with the Hornets a while back?


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## madman

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

i have a macabbi jersey but i probably wont wear it


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## speedythief

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*



madman said:


> i have a macabbi jersey but i probably wont wear it


Yeah, opportunities like this are a dime a dozen.


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## speedythief

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

We might as well use this (excellent) thread as the game thread, eh?


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## madman

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*



speedythief said:


> Yeah, opportunities like this are a dime a dozen.


 hey............................shut up


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## yellow

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

19000 tickets were sold :banana:


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## speedythief

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*



yellow said:


> 19000 tickets were sold :banana:


Serious? Wow.


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## southeasy

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*

maaaaaceooooooo, welcome back to the ACC

anthony parker? didn't he sign to the lakers?


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## yellow

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*



ThaWicketOne said:


> maaaaaceooooooo, welcome back to the ACC
> 
> anthony parker? didn't he sign to the lakers?


here is our Parker


http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AOW


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## Divine Spammer

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*



speedythief said:


> Serious? Wow.


Sure. There are a lot of jews and Israelis in T.O.

Nice to have some picks of the players. Maccabi's starting line-up will probably be: 
Solomon, Burstein, Parker, Maceo, Vujcic. 

Good chance that Maccabi will win this one if Sam gives plenty of PT to bench players. 

I wanted to open this thread, but then came Yum-Kipur, and I couldn't use my computer.


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## madman

*Re: preseason Oct 16 Maccabi Tel Aviv*



Divine Spammer said:


> Sure. There are a lot of jews and Israelis in T.O.
> 
> Nice to have some picks of the players. Maccabi's starting line-up will probably be:
> Solomon, Burstein, Parker, Maceo, Vujcic.
> 
> Good chance that Maccabi will win this one if Sam gives plenty of PT to bench players.
> 
> I wanted to open this thread, but then came Yum-Kipur, and I couldn't use my computer.


 Wow i was soooo ****ing hungry i was going nuts


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## yellow

Maccabi Starting 5- All you got to know & see

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=424555&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

include 26 Maccabi video clips

the credit for roz4k


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## vi3t_boi11

This game is live on Raps tv rite?


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## Virtuoso

vi3t_boi11 said:


> This game is live on Raps tv rite?


Yes, 1pm tomorrow. Reaaaallllll early for a Sunday...


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## Raptorsfan2

Virtuoso said:


> Yes, 1pm tomorrow. Reaaaallllll early for a Sunday...


I will be a the game watching from the 9th raw.I cannot wait to see Villanueva,and calderon up close for the first time.I wish that Graham plays too but I doubt it.
I will post my thoughts once I get back form the game tomorrow.


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## bigbabyjesus

My brother has courtside seats to this game! And he doesn't even watch the Raptors!

Man, I hate my brother.


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## yellow

it will be gr8 help for us in Tel Aviv if u can post here few Photos after the game 
thx


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## yellow

AT 17:00 ET YOU CAN SEE THE GAME AGAIN OVER HERE 

go here 

http://www.livesports.co.il/forum/index.php? 

REGISTER HERE 

http://www.livesports.co.il/forum/index.php?act=Reg&CODE=00 

and than 

http://www.livesports.co.il/forum/index.php?showtopic=3892 
its LS4


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH

i welcome back myself the the raps board! :clap: :banana: 
wow. i havent wrote here in a while...
very interesting game to watch..maccabi with 5 players that have nba history:
Maceo Baston - as you all know...
Kirk Penney - Miami..
Willie Solomon - Memphis 
Anthony Parker - Magic, NJ, 76ers
Yaniv green - pistons final training camp 2 years ago. lol

the israeli tv aires the game in a 4 hours deley, too bad...
good luck for both teams!
but, of course maccabi will win...


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## ansoncarter

Did Araujo just get booed when he missed his first freethrow?!?!


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## Chris Bosh #4

bosh hits the buzzer to get the 12 point lead at the half :banana:


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## Chris Bosh #4

Also Villanueva is looking terrific!


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## SkywalkerAC

Sounds like we had a pretty decent first half with Charlie and Chris showing off their inside games.

Who's watching on Raptv and why aren't you giving updates?

Who started at center?


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## TRON

Chris Bosh #4 or anyone with RapsTV, can you give some commentary thanks!!!


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## SkywalkerAC

81-77 Raps at the end of the 3rd. Don't think it was a well played quarter for the Raps.

Has Tierre Brown been playing?


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## adhir1

WOW...we lost....and let the floodgates for the Raptor haters open...i dont think we will ever live this down...

"The Raptors win the championship"
"Yah but they lost to Macabi Tel Aviv in the preseason of 05"
"true they suck, poor Chris Bosh, he needs to come to the states"


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## greekadonis

if you're being sarcastic, try to show that. if not, please do not post this garbage on our forum. thanks. speedy.


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## vi3t_boi11

Anthony Parker killed the Raps in crunch time, he score the winning shot over Mo Pete with 0.8 secs left on the clock, that guy belongs in the nba


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## Markffd

The following were my observation

CV3

- He has many more inside outside moves than CB4 did as a rookie
- He reminds me of a slower version of jermaine o-neal with more range
- He positioned himself really well offensively
- A little slow on defense but not terrible

CB4

- He was on his game tonight, looks as good as last year with a little, very little more of a post-game

MO PEtE

- He seems bigger than last year
- Terrible performance
- Couldn't buy a shot, defense was less than spectacular

Jalen

- played above average offense, below average defense

Hoffa

- I personally thought he played pretty well for himself
- good position on defense
- good a few rebounds 

Woods

-terrible, exact same player as last year


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## vi3t_boi11

Bosh played over 44 mins, had 27 pts and 12 rebs, had a couple of nice turn around hook shot


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## adhir1

greekadonis said:


> garbage


what did i say????


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## TRON

complete embarassment

*hangs head in shame*

I bet Sam put out some retarted lineup for the 4th quarter again, maybe he tried to put 4 point guards out there at the same time, and Calderon at Center???


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## vi3t_boi11

Maccabi plays Orlando on Wednesday lets hope that they beat them so we won't look so bad


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## ansoncarter

nah Sam seemed to be trying to win

Bosh played the whole game. Rose, Mop and James seemed to play most of the 4th (iirc)

Jalen's inbound pass with .8 seconds left was a thing of ugliness. Passed it to Mop for a halfcourt heave. And Mop was covered too lol. Good call Rose


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## vi3t_boi11

TRON said:


> I bet Sam put out some retarted lineup for the 4th quarter again, maybe he tried to put 4 point guards out there at the same time, and Calderon at Center???


Actually he had bosh, bonner, rose, mo pete, and james out there in the 4th


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## adhir1

no we tried to win this game..like we really did...none of the "invitees" played in this game..i think this is what our rotation is going to look like come the start of the season...and we still lost...there is somethign wrong with that....


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## trick

adhir1 said:


> no we tried to win this game..like we really did...none of the "invitees" played in this game..i think this is what our rotation is going to look like come the start of the season...and we still lost...there is somethign wrong with that....


at the same time you have to question the effort the players had out there in the first quarter, minus bosh. there was a reason why sam himself questioned the players if they were ready for this game or not during the first quarter.


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## TRON

> Originally posted by *vi3t_boi11 !*
> 
> Anthony Parker killed the Raps in crunch time, he score the winning shot over Mo Pete with 0.8 secs left on the clock, that guy belongs in the nba



and this is the second game where we lost a game in the final second :no: ....this is gonna be a loooooong season, ah well, bring it on!!!!!!!!


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## adhir1

trick said:


> at the same time you have to question the effort the players had out there in the first quarter, minus bosh. there was a reason why sam himself questioned the players if they were ready for this game or not during the first quarter.


well we were leading throughtout the first 3 quarters..and in the fourth when it mattered..we lost...


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## TRON

> Originally posted by *vi3t_boi11 !*
> 
> Actually he had bosh, bonner, rose, mo pete, and james out there in the 4th


Wow, those guys should be ashamed with themselves, they just got owned by an international team...I hope opposing players in the NBA really clown them for this one

this might not be justified, but my expectations for this team, which were already low to begin with, have just been taken down a notch


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## swurv

wow.



I REALLY hope the players were'nt truly tryin. If they were, things could be bad.


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## speedythief

That was a pretty fun game to watch. More like a regular season game than a preseason free-for-all.

No shame in losing to a good team. I don't know why anyone here would be disappointed more about a loss to Macabbi than a normal loss. It's not like they are a D-League team. Plus they played really well and had a very nice fourth quarter led by some strong shotblocking and Tony Parker just laying into us on mid-range pull-ups that are hard to guard.

Crowd wasn't as full as some had predicted but there was strong Israeli support which made it almost like a neutral arena. I like seeing things get switched up like that.


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## vi3t_boi11

Gotta give some credit to Maccabi Tel Aviv, they played well as a team, got to the free throw line over 40 times and made 87% of it, they got good team chemistry since they played with each other for long time, it's not like the Raptors lost to a crappy european team, they're the back to back euroleague champs


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## ansoncarter

looks like Sam has given up on Hoffa already

I don't see why him and Loren aren't getting big minutes. They're going to be needed, no matter how useless Sam thinks they are


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## ansoncarter

am I the only one who heard Hoffa get booed?

it was when he went to the line early on


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## speedythief

ansoncarter said:


> am I the only one who heard Hoffa get booed?
> 
> it was when he went to the line early on


The crowd was trying to mess up all of the Raptors free throws, but I wouldn't doubt it if he was getting booed.


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## TRON

> Originally posted by *Speedythief !*
> 
> No shame in losing to a good team. I don't know why anyone here would be disappointed more about a loss to Macabbi than a normal loss. It's not like they are a D-League team.


The Shame lies in being the* first * NBA team to loose to an international team, that while Macabi is a good team, they are clearly made up of players that were considered below NBA grade, true??


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## speedythief

TRON said:


> The Shame lies in being the* first * NBA team to loose to an international team, that while Macabi is a good team, they are clearly made up of players that were considered below NBA grade, true??


I think guys like Baston and Parker and their big man could probably be on an NBA roster if given the opportunity. By in large they are not up to the skill level of the NBA but that mistake was made with the Olympics, remember? People thought that NBA ballers would never be defeated and look how that changed over the last decade.

If we were the first _and last_ team to be defeated than that holds some kind of meaning, maybe. As long as NBA teams keep playing international teams more precedents will come. But being the first NBA team to lose a preseason exhibition game to one of the top teams in Europe is supposed to be shameful? I know the team doesn't want to lose and doesn't like to lose but there is a reason these games are played.


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## madman

speedythief said:


> That was a pretty fun game to watch. More like a regular season game than a preseason free-for-all.
> 
> No shame in losing to a good team. I don't know why anyone here would be disappointed more about a loss to Macabbi than a normal loss. It's not like they are a D-League team. Plus they played really well and had a very nice fourth quarter led by some strong shotblocking and Tony Parker just laying into us on mid-range pull-ups that are hard to guard.
> 
> Crowd wasn't as full as some had predicted but there was strong Israeli support which made it almost like a neutral arena. I like seeing things get switched up like that.


neutral? are you crazy? it was an away game for the raps, trust me i was there ill post my summary with pics soon


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## speedythief

madman said:


> neutral? are you crazy? it was an away game for the raps, trust me i was there ill post my summary with pics soon


I was hearing some cheers when guys like Bonner and Bosh made plays, but maybe what I saw on TV isn't parallel to what you heard and saw being there. Tell us all about it.


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## madman

First of let me say that i am Jewish and half Isreali (ask Turkish Delight and Budwiser_boy if you dont belive me) so i am not trying to be rasict just stating the facts. This game was probably the worst games in terms of fans that i have ever been to.

The beging of the game was nice both teams got a nice ovation from the crowd when they came in, Bosh said he appriciates the support from the fans and hopes we have a fun time. The Isreali consolate of Canada spoke and then it was game time. IMO this is where i got pissed off. I was sitting completly surrounded by Maccabi Fans and they were extremly ignorant. Through out the game the people behind me and my brother were waving a isreali flag and it was constantly hiting us in the head. We asked them to stop and they did for a while but later on did it again. 

Another thing that pissed me off is I can guarentee that every single one of those people had no idea who Anthony Parker or Maceo Baston etc were they were just bandwagoning a team, and i can understand why but it still pisses me off, bandwagoners and homers.:curse: god!!!!

I can tell you right away why the Raptors lost. Maccabi played a much more physical game then we did and had 2 players foul out!! Come on how often dose that happen in an NBA game? I am not saying that it is their fault but they have to realise that we are not playing for a win or lose here but so our staff can see who is gonna make the team, at one point they threw Bosh to the floor and once when Bonner was going to the net someone hit his hand really hard he was hunched over in pain. The refs were pretty awful down the stretch but i wont complain about that cause that seems to happen alot.

Also what the hell is wrong with the fans? They boo the Raptors when they are shooting fouls and then they hit the shot and those same people are cheering? I mean wow pick a team and stick with it. 

:upset: I am so ****ing angry at this team right now but there were some positives. Calderon seemed like he could start some games this season and impressed me alot. Villenueva was good except he wasnt as agressive as i would have liked but its only game number 3 he could improve on that. I was dissapointed not to see Graham play i really wanted to see his defense. Bosh was good but disapered at times. Did James have an assist? I cant remember him passing the ball.

Ahh well i guess you have to completly collapse before you can get everything right :sigh:

I'll have pics up soon


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## wind161

we got killed on the foul line. 

I can't help but notice the amount of times Rose got beaten off the dribble and commits a touch foul.

and what's with CV getting called for fouls... watching from the TV.. the fouls were quite weak.. can someone comment on this? I couldnt' see very clearly from the TV and there weren't replays on these CV fouls. thx


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## TRON

> Originally posted by *Speedythief !*
> 
> But being the first NBA team to lose a preseason exhibition game to one of the top teams in Europe is supposed to be shameful?


I think so. but after only winning by 3 points last year against the Greek team, you kinda knew this would eventually come. 

I just thought that straight up pride would have willed the Raps players to win over what should be an inferior opponent, I guess I was wrong!!!


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## madman

wind161 said:


> we got killed on the foul line.
> 
> I can't help but notice the amount of times Rose got beaten off the dribble and commits a touch foul.
> 
> and what's with CV getting called for fouls... watching from the TV.. the fouls were quite weak.. can someone comment on this? I couldnt' see very clearly from the TV and there weren't replays on these CV fouls. thx


 yes the refs were very one sided IMO i thought there was a clear foul on James' lay in at the end but no one else did i guess


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## trick

TRON said:


> The Shame lies in being the* first * NBA team to loose to an international team, that while Macabi is a good team, they are clearly made up of players that were considered below NBA grade, true??


the raptors were not the first time to lose to maccabi in an exhibition game


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## TRON

serious, who was the first???


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## trick

TRON said:


> serious, who was the first???


i remember at the beginning they showd a list of maccabi's accomplishments, and i saw the wizards losing to maccabi a while back.


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## Zalgirinis

trick said:


> the raptors were not the first time to lose to maccabi in an exhibition game


Yes, Maccabi has won vs Bullets I think in 1978 and vs Suns and Nets in 1984, but those games were played in Tel Aviv. Raptors is first team to lose on their court to European team.


----------



## Unknownone

I suspect a lot of people in attendance weren't/aren't basketball fans, but just there b/c it's a team from Israel - easier to comprehend the divided loyalties evident by the colors in the crowd - patron sitting next to David Stern wore a Maccabi t-shirt...

Based on what I saw for the 1st quarter and some of the 2nd (on RaptorsTV), Araujo still looks awkward out there on the floor - there's nothing to suggest that he'll develop a more fluid handle; anything that he produces must be registered as a bonus as expectations continue to diminish - I'm all for growth and progress, but he's got what seems to be a permanent deer-in-headlights look whenever he's on the court and has failed to demonstrate any sustained perception and/or awareness; it's ultimately more disappointing than frustrating - given that he looks like he wants to improve... I am leaning in favor of looking proactively for another candidate to replace Raf if/when he is available and/or finances enable it to be realized...

Jalen must go... Sooner rather than later... Given all the accolades and praise heaped on the Fab 5 during their Michigan tenure, the chances of any of the members winning a championship looks as if it'll be more and more elusive (which in professional sports is the true marker of what constitutes a winner) - Juwan Howard is the one w/ the greatest likelihood right now, riding on Yao and McGrady's coattails - I fully acknowledge that Jalen is a competitor, but being competitive (in concert w/ a selfish streak) doesn't abet matters when it comes to designing a team: lazy passes, matador defence, propensity to take bad shots - he's in his early '30s and still possesses the maturity of his collegiate Wolverine days... He may prosper in a reduced role on a more talent and experience-laden team, but I think he's worn out his welcome w/ Toronto...


----------



## trick

Zalgirinis said:


> Yes, Maccabi has won vs Bullets I think in 1978 and vs Suns and Nets in 1984, but those games were played in Tel Aviv. Raptors is first team to lose on their court to European team.


you would think the raptors lost on their court, but if you watched the game the crowd was much more rooting for tel-aviv than the raptors, which is probably the most disappointing aspect of the game for me.


----------



## madman

where i can i upload a winrar file so i can post the pics?


----------



## speedythief

wind161 said:


> we got killed on the foul line.
> 
> I can't help but notice the amount of times Rose got beaten off the dribble and commits a touch foul.
> 
> and what's with CV getting called for fouls... watching from the TV.. the fouls were quite weak.. can someone comment on this? I couldnt' see very clearly from the TV and there weren't replays on these CV fouls. thx


Charlie's been getting rookie calls this preseason and I hope he doesn't let it get to him. What you can do in college isn't the same as what you can do in the NBA.


----------



## Unknownone

madman said:


> where i can i upload a winrar file so i can post the pics?


YouSendIt.com
Rapidshare.de
Filefront.com


----------



## Zalgirinis

trick said:


> you would think the raptors lost on their court, but if you watched the game the crowd was much more rooting for tel-aviv than the raptors, which is probably the most disappointing aspect of the game for me.


It was played in Toronto, so Raptors had their home court. If they have no fans, its not Maccabi business. Also mind the long trip, time difference, jet lag and different game rules for Maccabi. I think that buys off vs some booing fans.


----------



## trick

Zalgirinis said:


> It was played in Toronto, so Raptors had their home court. If they have no fans, its not Maccabi business. Also mind the long trip, time difference, jet lag and different game rules for Maccabi. I think that buys off vs some booing fans.


ok


----------



## Mr_B

smh shamefull


----------



## Turkish Delight

This is a game we should have won. Again, we lose right at the end. Last season the Raptors lost so many games by only 6 points or less, and I definately hope that it's something they can improve upon for this year, but so far I'm not too optimistic.


----------



## ansoncarter

what was with the inbound play at the end? it was just mayhem with guys running around trying to get open

and it came after a full timeout iirc

if Sam drew up that pass to Mo at halfcourt when he's covered, well, thats not much of a call lol


----------



## madman

ansoncarter said:


> what was with the inbound play at the end? it was just mayhem with guys running around trying to get open
> 
> and it came after a full timeout iirc
> 
> if Sam drew up that pass to Mo at halfcourt when he's covered, well, thats not much of a call lol


 yeah i didnt know the Time out situation did they still have one?

Also on the play before that why didnt Bosh foul him on the wing so that he might have gone 1-2 from the line?


----------



## speedythief

ansoncarter said:


> what was with the inbound play at the end? it was just mayhem with guys running around trying to get open
> 
> and it came after a full timeout iirc
> 
> if Sam drew up that pass to Mo at halfcourt when he's covered, well, thats not much of a call lol


Yeah, where's coach O'Neill when you need him.


----------



## Porn Player

wow 0-3 not great lol.... dont suppose any can hook a brother up with anuva 4th quarter download i wanna see ma boy calderon do his thing


----------



## nwt

They have some pics up at Raptors.com


----------



## madman

try this link for my pics

http://files.filefront.com/2005_10_16_1656_52rar/;4259714;;/fileinfo.html


----------



## speedythief

madman said:


> try this link for my pics
> 
> http://files.filefront.com/2005_10_16_1656_52rar/;4259714;;/fileinfo.html


How many pictures did you take?!


----------



## madman

like 77 but there 3 videos


----------



## speedythief

madman said:


> like 77 but there 3 videos


...ok, awesome. No wonder the file is so huge.


----------



## adhir1

face it guys...we tried and lost to an international team....i understand what speedy is saying...but when it comes down to it...the best (most of the time) players on an international team are ussually payers who cant get int he NBA, and arent named Dirk or Sarunas, we tried to win..but we lost....the same thing is going to happen this season..we will keep trying...but we will loose...what upset me is again down the stretch when we needed it..Bosh never got the damn ball..instead it was Mike James taking the big shots...Chris really needs to demand that ball in crunch time...this is where i really miss VC sometimes...down the stretch we could always count on VC to bring us back and win the game....its sad that we lost...ohh well...brace for a very looooooong season...plus i wonder what must be goign threw Bosh's mind right now??? he hates loosing to NBA teams...what about an international team....


----------



## trick

i don't know about you but i'm prepared to have a losing team, in fact i'm all for it if it means a higher draft pick. what i'm looking forward to this season is progression concerning our young guys and bosh moulding himself into an all-star player in the near future, maybe even this season.

if you expect this team to make it to the playoffs you're only setting youself up for disappointments.


----------



## adhir1

trick said:


> i don't know about you but i'm prepared to have a losing team, in fact i'm all for it if it means a higher draft pick. what i'm looking forward to this season is progression concerning our young guys and bosh moulding himself into an all-star player in the near future, maybe even this season.
> 
> if you expect this team to make it to the playoffs you're only setting youself up for disappointments.


to tell u the truth...i could careless about this season just liek you....the only this i am worried about for a few years is resigning Bosh....he genuinely hates to loose...and if we are still loosing when its tiem to resign him...we may NOT be able to resign him...im down for loosing this season getting a high pick...but what if that is what costs us CB4??? its going to have to be like when we resigned VC...were gonna have to come off a hugh playoff push...and have everybody looking at us to up up up....and im afraid that may not happen...even 3 years down the line...


----------



## nwt

Does anyone know where I can find a boxscore of the game? nba.com isn't working for some reason


----------



## trick

adhir1 said:


> to tell u the truth...i could careless about this season just liek you....the only this i am worried about for a few years is resigning Bosh....he genuinely hates to loose...and if we are still loosing when its tiem to resign him...we may NOT be able to resign him...im down for loosing this season getting a high pick...but what if that is what costs us CB4??? its going to have to be like when we resigned VC...were gonna have to come off a hugh playoff push...and have everybody looking at us to up up up....and im afraid that may not happen...even 3 years down the line...


i see that MB's posts got to you.


----------



## wind161

I'm glad that someone agrees with me that Rose is more of a liability than asset. He should just retire and be a commentator... do us a favour and take Stephen Smith's job...

Yes, Mike James was fouled from the replays on TV.

I forgot to bring this up earlier, but MoPete has go to make better decisions. Stop taking those shots and go to the hole! Then there's the fast 3pter right off a turnover with less than 3-5 minutes in the game. And on the last shot, he let Parker have a very good look. Man... he really knows how to frustrate us...


----------



## [email protected]

I Say Greekadonis Be Banned From This F'n Forum Cuz If I Ever Met This Guy I'd Stick My Foot So Far Up His ***


----------



## maccabi fan

adhir1 said:


> well we were leading throughtout the first 3 quarters..and in the fourth when it mattered..we lost...





speedythief said:


> That was a pretty fun game to watch. More like a regular season game than a preseason free-for-all.
> 
> No shame in losing to a good team. I don't know why anyone here would be disappointed more about a loss to Macabbi than a normal loss. It's not like they are a D-League team. Plus they played really well and had a very nice fourth quarter led by some strong shotblocking and Tony Parker just laying into us on mid-range pull-ups that are hard to guard.
> 
> Crowd wasn't as full as some had predicted but there was strong Israeli support which made it almost like a neutral arena. I like seeing things get switched up like that.





ansoncarter said:


> what was with the inbound play at the end? it was just mayhem with guys running around trying to get open
> 
> and it came after a full timeout iirc
> 
> if Sam drew up that pass to Mo at halfcourt when he's covered, well, thats not much of a call lol


let me explain this. maccabi is known all over europe with her match-up-zone D. the whole 4th quarter your guys didn't understand how to attack it. europe is still searching for a solution for maccabi D.
so don't feel down. it's not the players fault. it's the fault of the americans coaches that are relaying on the athletic abilitys of there players and the personal D and the personal O. I mean, for god sake, how can a coach sit the whole game?????? did you saw pini, our coach? look at the playes of maccabi. every start of every O the play with the ball looks at the coach for instructions and guidance...






adhir1 said:


> face it guys...we tried and lost to an international team....i understand what speedy is saying...but when it comes down to it...the best (most of the time) players on an international team are ussually payers who cant get int he NBA, and arent named Dirk or Sarunas, we tried to win..but we lost....


I think you all need to understand that the scouts in the NBA are very very bad. there are many europe guys like parker, saras, vujcic, baston and even our coach pini gershon that the passes over.


----------



## ansoncarter

^starting to see what Divinespammer was talking about in his thread


----------



## [email protected]

maccabi fan said:


> let me explain this. maccabi is known all over europe with her match-up-zone D. the whole 4th quarter your guys didn't understand how to attack it. europe is still searching for a solution for maccabi D.
> so don't feel down. it's not the players fault. it's the fault of the americans coaches that are relaying on the athletic abilitys of there players and the personal D and the personal O. I mean, for god sake, how can a coach sit the whole game?????? did you saw pini, our coach? look at the playes of maccabi. every start of every O the play with the ball looks at the coach for instructions and guidance...
> 
> 
> I think you all need to understand that the scouts in the NBA are very very bad. there are many europe guys like parker, saras, vujcic, baston and even our coach pini gershon that the passes over.



^ this is true


----------



## ansoncarter

how many games do you think Maccabi would win in the nba?


----------



## Mr_B

ansoncarter said:


> how many games do you think Maccabi would win in the nba?


depends on how many times they play the raptors


----------



## italianBBlover

Raports aren't the first team to lose with an european teams.

And other times NBA teams won just for a couple of points, like the NY Knicks Vs. Scavolini Pesaro back in 1989 (after 1 overtime) and the Spurs Vs. Roosters Varese in 1999.


----------



## Raptorsfan2

Raptorsfan2 said:


> I will be a the game watching from the 9th raw.I cannot wait to see Villanueva,and calderon up close for the first time.I wish that Graham plays too but I doubt it.
> I will post my thoughts once I get back form the game tomorrow.


This are my observations from todays game:

Villanueva:
I liked what I saw today from CNova.He is athletic, can run the floor and can score.He has a nice baby -hook shot.My impression is that he will be able to contribute offensively immediately, no problem.I see him switching between the 3 and 4 spot with CB4.His problem seems to be on defence.He gets into foul trouble. I hope that he gets adjusted to the faster pace of the NBA and that is something that he will improve upon.

Bosh:
Bosh seems to be more assertive on both ends of the floor than last year.He looks bigger but not too much.His ball handling looks improved and he had some nice baskets from the post.I think that his numbers will improve from last year.

James:
James is not a first pass PG.He likes to penetrate and and shoot the floater or hit the 3 when open.He runs the floor well and can definetely play the 2 spot when the other team goes small.He does not hold on to the ball as much as Alston.He will be a solid contributor on offense and defence.

Rose:
Same old.Takes his ill advised shot at times as he always did.I wish he distributed the ball more than shoot it himself.There are a lot of players in this team that can score.He was O.K today.he looked frustrated at times on defence.He plays more with his hands than his feet on the defensive end of the floor.

Peterson:
He looks a little bigger than last year.His game looks the same as last year.Nothing more nothing less.

Calderon:
He is a first pass PG, no question about that.His is patient and he has maturity in his game.He plays in control and has a calming influence on the rest of the team.However he is not afraid to run on the fast break.He is very fast on the break.He sees the floor well and anticipates plays.He takes risks on defence that makes him prone to foul trouble.Once he adjusts to the fatser pace of the NBA game he will be solid, no problem.

Woods:
Very dissapointed in him.Looks lost. He commits fouls too easy.He looks bigger.This is the only improvement.A liability on the floor as far as I am concerned.Too bad.Looked frustrated with himself.His confidence is low.

Araujo:
Same as woods.Lost weight.Foul prone.Had a few rebounds.Seems as frustrated and lost as much as Woods.The Raptors have poor production from both of these guys.Something needs to be done with the 5 spot.We are in for a long season if Araujo and Woods play the way they played today.I hope that they get better.What can I say.

Toree Morris: Really big guy.I was veery impressed with his size.Played only a few minutes.Hard to comment on him.

PacK:
Started the 4th quarter.Mitchell propably did this on purpose to see if he can ran the team at the end of the game.Not impressed with him.

Tierre Brown: Very few minutes played.Took I think one shot and had it blocke.Hard to comment.

Graham: Did not play, although he was dressed up and was warming up.I would have liked to see him play, but I guess it is better that he rests his knee.

Bonner: Played well.I think he will improve this year once he adjusts his game on the defensive end of the floor.Plays with his hands in defence.He will be solid once he contributes on defence.

Overrall: The Raptors will not have a problem scoring.Defence and rebounding need to improve. As a team they need to be more patient on offence.Calderon will help with that.Too bad he did not play a lot of minutes especially in the 4th quarter.There was a lot of talking between the coach and the players themselves.I could sense some frustration already.Bosh looked upset when the game ended.The raptors were as if they were playing away from home.Rookies development will determine how far this team goes this year.Centre depth. what depth?

A note on Maccabi players: Played well as a unit. Their centre Nicola Vujcic is a lot better than Araujo or Woods.Very impressed with him.Does anyone know if he is drafted.How long is his contract with Maccabi.May be the raptors can get their hands on him.He looked way more better that Araujo and Woods, no question about that.


----------



## Mr_B

italianBBlover said:


> Raports aren't the first team to lose with an european teams.


Raptors were the 1st to lose in 27 years thats terible


----------



## Raptorsfan2

Mr_B said:


> Raptors were the 1st to lose in 27 years thats terible


I am not that concerned about the outcome of the game.This game meant to Maccabi more than it meant to the Raptors.They won the game because they wanted it more.Period.


----------



## TRON

> Originally posted by *Mr_B !*
> 
> *smh* shamefull


kinda off topic, but I've been trying to figure out what *smh* abbreviates for the longest time. If it's a swear word just give me the jist, thankx!!!


----------



## Mr_B

TRON said:


> kinda off topic, but I've been trying to figure out what *smh* abbreviates for the longest time. If it's a swear word just give me the jist, thankx!!!


smh=shaking my head


----------



## speedythief

You guys are too much.

We're talking about a 2 point loss. You're telling me a 2 point loss devestates our franchise, whereas even a 1 point victory would've been acceptable? Pfft.

It's an exhibition game.


----------



## trick

speedythief said:


> You guys are too much.
> 
> We're talking about a 2 point loss. You're telling me a 2 point loss devestates our franchise, whereas even a 1 point victory would've been acceptable? Pfft.
> 
> It's an exhibition game.


truer words have never been posted.

and this will probably be the best preseason game we can have to judge our players until the 7th or 8th when the games become more regular-season-oriented.


----------



## maccabi fan

Raptorsfan2 said:


> I am not that concerned about the outcome of the game.This game meant to Maccabi more than it meant to the Raptors.They won the game because they wanted it more.Period.


after 2 losses toronto took this game very seriously. there were 15 guys on the team and only 10 played. major players played almost all the game.check the minutes of the major player of toronto and tell me that this was jast a game for them...



Raptorsfan2 said:


> This are my observations from todays game:
> 
> A note on Maccabi players: Played well as a unit. Their centre Nicola Vujcic is a lot better than Araujo or Woods.Very impressed with him.Does anyone know if he is drafted.How long is his contract with Maccabi.May be the raptors can get their hands on him.He looked way more better that Araujo and Woods, no question about that.


not drafter and him as parker will never leave maccabi.


"They played this game like it was their championship game, and rightfully so," Rose said. "Those guys are hungry for NBA jobs. You don't just go to Europe because you're turning down the NBA, you're going to Europe because you want to be in the NBA so when you're standing up against a guy in front of you that's is in the NBA, you want to prove to anybody that's watching that you're NBA-worthy."

bull**** all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

parker, baston and Vujcic will never leave maccabi. thay don't even bother to go to an NBA pre-season camps. apparently he don't understand that maccabi is an organization with an NBA standards and they are winners who ambition to win even in an afternoon practice. everybody in ISRAEL and europe knows it. this is why they are the bast for over 3 decades...


----------



## ansoncarter

does anyone on Maccabi make over a million a year? (US dollars)


----------



## trick

i'm kinda surprised more people are not joyous over bosh exerting himself in the low post throughout the whole game.


----------



## maccabi fan

ansoncarter said:


> does anyone on Maccabi make over a million a year? (US dollars)


saras did, but in Israel foreign players don't have taxes on their salary so 750,000, and 1 milion $ are the full amoun of money that they are geting.
pareker is close to a milion and all the others are a behind him.

but as we see in the case of nate hafman. money is not everything.


----------



## Unknownone

maccabi fan said:


> parker, baston and Vujcic will never leave maccabi. thay don't even bother to go to an NBA pre-season camps. apparently he don't understand that maccabi is an organization with an NBA standards and they are winners who ambition to win even in an afternoon practice. everybody in ISRAEL and europe knows it. this is why they are the bast for over 3 decades...


I'd be hesitant in making a claim as such - Baston knocked around the NBA for a season or 2 before his skill set relegated him to playing overseas... And it's not b/c there's dearth of talent that forces personnel out the league, it's b/c there's an abundance of it - tall players get a pass only b/c you can't teach height... If someone tendered a 1 year guaranteed @ Baston, I suspect he'd jump ship from Maccabi if the buy out clause wasn't prohibitive...

No disrespect to leagues and teams outside of the NBA - but it's the NBA... Some individuals feel more comfortable or find themselves better suited to playing elsewhere, but if Parker or Baston could stick around in the NBA, they'd be there in a heartbeat (regardless of how attractive the conditions are @ Maccabi or elsewhere)...


----------



## maccabi fan

Unknownone said:


> I'd be hesitant in making a claim as such - Baston knocked around the NBA for a season or 2 before his skill set relegated him to playing overseas... And it's not b/c there's dearth of talent that forces personnel out the league, it's b/c there's an abundance of it - tall players get a pass only b/c you can't teach height... If someone tendered a 1 year guaranteed @ Baston, I suspect he'd jump ship from Maccabi if the buy out clause wasn't prohibitive...
> 
> No disrespect to leagues and teams outside of the NBA - but it's the NBA... Some individuals feel more comfortable or find themselves better suited to playing elsewhere, but if Parker or Baston could stick around in the NBA, they'd be there in a heartbeat (regardless of how attractive the conditions are @ Maccabi or elsewhere)...


baston and parker are not new to the scouts of the NBA. and becoase they were in the NBA thay arn't in a herry to run back there. pareker turned down a more then 1 milion $ this summer and baston never checked the possibilties before signing with maccabi.


----------



## ansoncarter

maccabi fan said:


> saras did, but in Israel foreign players don't have taxes on their salary so 750,000, and 1 milion $ are the full amoun of money that they are geting.
> pareker is close to a milion and all the others are a behind him.
> 
> but as we see in the case of nate hafman. money is not everything.


is the Maccabi team salary really that much higher than others in the league? 

theres about a million websites out there with people crying about them buying championships, and stealing players and having a huge advantage over everybody else

is giving out a million dollar contract really too much for other teams in the league?


----------



## ansoncarter

holy cow. Maccabi fans are passionate

"When Maccabi beat Bologna two years ago for the Euro title, more than *250,000 fans* sardined themselves into a Tel Aviv park to watch the game on a giant TV screen"


----------



## Raptorsfan2

maccabi fan said:


> after 2 losses toronto took this game very seriously. there were 15 guys on the team and only 10 played. major players played almost all the game.check the minutes of the major player of toronto and tell me that this was jast a game for them...
> 
> 
> 
> not drafter and him as parker will never leave maccabi.
> 
> 
> "They played this game like it was their championship game, and rightfully so," Rose said. "Those guys are hungry for NBA jobs. You don't just go to Europe because you're turning down the NBA, you're going to Europe because you want to be in the NBA so when you're standing up against a guy in front of you that's is in the NBA, you want to prove to anybody that's watching that you're NBA-worthy."
> 
> bull**** all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> parker, baston and Vujcic will never leave maccabi. thay don't even bother to go to an NBA pre-season camps. apparently he don't understand that maccabi is an organization with an NBA standards and they are winners who ambition to win even in an afternoon practice. everybody in ISRAEL and europe knows it. this is why they are the bast for over 3 decades...


I do not have to check the minutes.I was at the game 9 rows up.I did not say that the Raptors did not play their best players.They did for most of the game.What I said and I meant it as a compliment to your team is that Maccabi wanted the win more than the Raptors players which is why they won.Their desire to win was more than the Raptors players.For the Raptors this is pre-season.For Maccabi was a game played to prove that they can compete with NBA teams.This is my opinion.You do not have to accept it but you can debate it.And most importantly you do not have to be rude.
Someone once said that it is the mark of an educated mind to entertain someone elses thought without having to accept it.
As far as being the best in Europe I am not quite sure.Maccabi won 5 championships between 1958-2005. In 1977, 1981, 2001,2004 and 2005. Real won 8 during this period.It depends on how far back you want to go. One title in the 70's one in the 80's none in the 90's is not very impressive.3 titles in the 2000's yes but if you look at the overall history objevtively you are not the best.
I have nothing more to say to you.


----------



## adhir1

trick said:


> i'm kinda surprised more people are not joyous over bosh exerting himself in the low post throughout the whole game.


MonsterBosh has not gotten to me...i assure u that....but im just going from what he (Chris Bosh) said "dont, worry as long as we are winning, ill be here" and if we cant beat a euro team, and we tried...what the hell aer we going to do against NBA teams????? were gonna get slaughtered....its just angering me....please prove me wrong..tell me Bosh is going to stay....ur a good poster...i invite all the good posters to come and bash me and prove me wrong...do it.....


----------



## Ron Mexico

vi3t_boi11 said:


> Maccabi plays Orlando on Wednesday lets hope that they beat them so we won't look so bad



i think they will come prepared after seeing what happened,

dwight howard better prepare


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Well the Generals just beat the globetrotters.

I was doing other things today and just realized we loss this game.

Son of a *****. And if you want call me out for "disrespecting" your team go right ahead. We are an NBA team, you are a team with good NBA retreads.


----------



## Ron Mexico

maccabi fan said:


> after 2 losses toronto took this game very seriously. there were 15 guys on the team and only 10 played. major players played almost all the game.check the minutes of the major player of toronto and tell me that this was jast a game for them...
> 
> 
> 
> not drafter and him as parker will never leave maccabi.
> 
> 
> "They played this game like it was their championship game, and rightfully so," Rose said. "Those guys are hungry for NBA jobs. You don't just go to Europe because you're turning down the NBA, you're going to Europe because you want to be in the NBA so when you're standing up against a guy in front of you that's is in the NBA, you want to prove to anybody that's watching that you're NBA-worthy."
> 
> bull**** all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> parker, baston and Vujcic will never leave maccabi. thay don't even bother to go to an NBA pre-season camps. apparently he don't understand that maccabi is an organization with an NBA standards and they are winners who ambition to win even in an afternoon practice. everybody in ISRAEL and europe knows it. this is why they are the bast for over 3 decades...


wow when did you register, frontrunners


----------



## Zalgirinis

wind161 said:


> I'm glad that someone agrees with me that Rose is more of a liability than asset. He should just retire and be a commentator... do us a favour and take Stephen Smith's job...


Maybe Rose is liability on the court, but he surely would be horrible commentator. Just look at his quote below that is idiotic stuff hes saying there.

"They played this game like it was their championship game, and rightfully so," Rose said. "Those guys are hungry for NBA jobs. You don't just go to Europe because you're turning down the NBA, you're going to Europe because you want to be in the NBA so when you're standing up against a guy in front of you that's is in the NBA, you want to prove to anybody that's watching that you're NBA-worthy."



ansoncarter said:


> how many games do you think Maccabi would win in the nba?


Dont know about this year Maccabi team, they have few new players and I havent seen this team playing yet. Solomon instead of Jasikevicius at the point is a big downgrade. I think last year team would make playoffs or at least be border playoff team.



Unknownone said:


> No disrespect to leagues and teams outside of the NBA - but it's the NBA... Some individuals feel more comfortable or find themselves better suited to playing elsewhere, but if Parker or Baston could stick around in the NBA, they'd be there in a heartbeat (regardless of how attractive the conditions are @ Maccabi or elsewhere)...


Yes, "it's still the NBA" for majority players, but not for all, not for all anymore. Im not sure about Baston, but Parker for the few times has stated that NBA isnt interesting for him anymore and that he doesnt have desire to play there as Europe and Maccabi are his home now. Not only veterans like him say so. For example in Lithuania theres a young prospect kid, who is 20, and he was asked would he like to go to the NBA. The answer was "I dont know where my career brings me, but I dont want to play moron's game there. They are just bricking and running, thats not basketball. Playing team basketball in Europe is much more interesting than going all the time 1on1 in NBA". It might seem insulting for you, but much more players are starting to think the same. What NBA attracts a player is money and with some European clubs gaining more money I think this steorotype that every Euro kid wants to play in NBA will be quickly broken. If contracts in Europe dont go up when NBA surely will get the best of here, but not because of some miraculous level, but the $ (of course not all the time, some players really dream about NBA here).


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## maccabi fan

Zalgirinis said:


> Maybe Rose is liability on the court, but he surely would be horrible commentator. Just look at his quote below that is idiotic stuff hes saying there.
> 
> "They played this game like it was their championship game, and rightfully so," Rose said. "Those guys are hungry for NBA jobs. You don't just go to Europe because you're turning down the NBA, you're going to Europe because you want to be in the NBA so when you're standing up against a guy in front of you that's is in the NBA, you want to prove to anybody that's watching that you're NBA-worthy."
> 
> 
> 
> Dont know about this year Maccabi team, they have few new players and I havent seen this team playing yet. Solomon instead of Jasikevicius at the point is a big downgrade. I think last year team would make playoffs or at least be border playoff team.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, "it's still the NBA" for majority players, but not for all, not for all anymore. Im not sure about Baston, but Parker for the few times has stated that NBA isnt interesting for him anymore and that he doesnt have desire to play there as Europe and Maccabi are his home now. Not only veterans like him say so. For example in Lithuania theres a young prospect kid, who is 20, and he was asked would he like to go to the NBA. The answer was "I dont know where my career brings me, but I dont want to play moron's game there. They are just bricking and running, thats not basketball. Playing team basketball in Europe is much more interesting than going all the time 1on1 in NBA". It might seem insulting for you, but much more players are starting to think the same. What NBA attracts a player is money and with some European clubs gaining more money I think this steorotype that every Euro kid wants to play in NBA will be quickly broken. If contracts in Europe dont go up when NBA surely will get the best of here, but not because of some miraculous level, but the $ (of course not all the time, some players really dream about NBA here).


well said.
I didn't know maccabi had fans in Lithuania. sorry about two years ago.


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## butr

I find this is a good time to reiterate my preseason expectations of less than 30 wins this year.

I would also like to offer one-way-never-return airfare to those Iraeli/Maccabi fans yesterday. 

If you are such big fans, go buy season tickets in Israel. You make me sick.


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## Divine Spammer

Humiliating game. 

First of all: Jalen sucks! He's more than a liability. Jalen=damage. 
We all know that his defences just sucks, but atleast you could expect he'd look good on the offensive end, which he doesn't. TRADE HIM!!!

I'm very dissapointed from Sam Mitchal. I'd hoped to see a good coach, but he was very bad on the lines, IMO. 
The Raps looked like a bunch of players that have nothing in common save they all play basketball and wear a similar jersey. 
Maccabi is team, Toronto isn't. 

Defence, organized attacks... It's the coach's job. 
I won't even talk on our defence! 
However, when I see five players stand and wait for something to happen on the offensive end without doin' anything- that's really embarrassed me. 

This is Sam's responsibility. He must help his players out there, which he didn't. 

What's worse, is that Maccabi didn't have an extraordinary game. It was average+ effort by Maccabi. 

Zalgirinis, you speak crap. Even last year Maccabi was a lottery team. 
And Solomon isn't such a downgrade, because he's much better defender than Saras.


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## fezqo

maccabi fan said:


> I think you all need to understand that the scouts in the NBA are very very bad. *there are many europe guys like parker, saras, vujcic, baston * and even our coach pini gershon that the passes over.



Well, that's a bit of an overstatement I'm afraid. Vujcic, Saras & Parker are the very best players in Europe in their positions, while Baston is nothing special, really.

Who are the other (veteran) players in Europe who should deserve an NBA contract?
- Marcus Brown, no doubt.
- Gregor Fujka 
- Juanca Navarro
- Jorge Garbajosa (great PF/C with outstanding shooting touch)
- Joe Blair (hmmm... not sure though)
- David Andersen
- Luis Scola
- Tanoka Beard

And that's it IMO.


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## Turkish Delight

Zalgirinis said:


> Maybe Rose is liability on the court, but he surely would be horrible commentator. Just look at his quote below that is idiotic stuff hes saying there.
> 
> "They played this game like it was their championship game, and rightfully so," Rose said. "Those guys are hungry for NBA jobs. You don't just go to Europe because you're turning down the NBA, you're going to Europe because you want to be in the NBA so when you're standing up against a guy in front of you that's is in the NBA, you want to prove to anybody that's watching that you're NBA-worthy."


And that statement isn't true? They played their hearts out, they had something to prove out there. Face the facts, if any of these players could assure their stay in the NBA instead of jumping around like Baston did, they would leave Maccabi right away. And I don't want to hear about guys rejecting one year contract offers. These players aren't stupid, they're obviously thinking about what will happen after that one year. Obviously they have more security staying at Maccabi for three or four years than trying to make it with an NBA team for one year, and then taking the risk of not having a team the year after.


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## Divine Spammer

Turkish Delight said:


> And that statement isn't true? They played their hearts out, they had something to prove out there. Face the facts, if any of these players could assure their stay in the NBA instead of jumping around like Baston did, they would leave Maccabi right away.


Rose's statement is 99% crap. 
I've seen Maccabi play much harder. 

It's just an excuse. For Jalen, it is very easy to say "Yeah, they gave 110% of themselves, and we gave 70%...", however the truth is- Toronto (most players, to be correct) played BAD basketball in the 2nd half. 

What did you want him say? Something like this?: 
"I sucked and played like an egomaniac, I didn't the ball to our star, Chris. As a result, I got owned by Maccabi's defence and we've lost the game." 

Moreover, I don't understand why Sam didn't send JMC to the court. He knows how to cope with zone defences better than our other players, and he's Pass-first. A thing which we needed badly.


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## Turkish Delight

Divine Spammer said:


> Rose's statement is 99% crap.
> I've seen Maccabi play much harder.
> 
> It's just an excuse. For Jalen, it is very easy to say "Yeah, they gave 110% of themselves, and we gave 70%...", however the truth is- Toronto (most players, to be correct) played BAD basketball in the 2nd half.
> 
> What did you want him say? Something like this?:
> "I sucked and played like an egomaniac, I didn't the ball to our star, Chris. As a result, I got owned by Maccabi's defence and we've lost the game."
> 
> Moreover, I don't understand why Sam didn't send JMC to the court. He knows how to cope with zone defences better than our other players, and he's Pass-first. A thing which we needed badly.


The point I'm making is that if any of these guys had the opportunity to play and stay in the NBA, and not jump around from team to team and league to league, they would leave Maccabi immediately.


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## Divine Spammer

Turkish Delight said:


> The point I'm making is that if any of these guys had the opportunity to play and stay in the NBA, and not jump around from team to team and league to league, they would leave Maccabi immediately.


I'm not sure. Maccabi's a special team. I'll explain. 
First of all, in Israel these players are superstars, the Israeli street just loves them. 
Now, I've been at my friend's place last night (watched the game there, BTW), and she's neighbour of none other than Avri Kovalski, Maccabi's fitness trainer. 
Her family sat with his, and they've spoken about Maccabi and Avri said that he'd talked with Saras lately, and Saras is not very happy in Indy, 'cause he's not considered a star at all, being an unproved Rookie, and he doesn't have many friends on the team. 
Other than that, he doesn't have Moni Fannan. 

Moni has a job that I think excists only in Maccabi Tel-Aviv. He takes care of the forigen players. 
You want an expmple of how this man's is crazy and devoted? 
A player could call him in 3:00 am, and tell him- "Moni, my shower is broken, can you help please?" 
When tbat player gets back home from next day's pratice, a new jacuzzi would wait for him in his bathroom.

This isn't an exaggeration. Not at all. 

Do you understand now why a guy like Parker stays in Maccabi? 
He won't leave a home for a bunch o' dollars (not much more than he gets now). He's been in the NBA, so he doesn't have the "NBA Dream" anymore.


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## fezqo

Turkish Delight said:


> The point I'm making is that if any of these guys had the opportunity to play and stay in the NBA, and not jump around from team to team and league to league, they would leave Maccabi immediately.


Yup, and on the other hand, there are dozens of crappy NBA players (like Araujo, Woods and many others elsewhere in the League) who must feel like: "Wow, I'm damn lucky to play in this league, I have no clue why the mighty NBA hired me actually but one thing is definately sure, I'm so lucky to be part of it!" Luck is a huge part of the NBA dream for those countless bench-warmers.


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## Mr_B

the media ripping the raps to shreds over this lol


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## trick

Zalgirinis would say anything to protect any team and any player from Europe from being talked down. he even had Fran Vazquez held as a saint after what he did to Orlando.

and Maccabi fan, i had him on my ignore list as soon as i saw his post count in here. not worth sharing the .02 to posers like that.


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## Benis007

Pretty sad day for Toronto Basketball.

Lets just hope the team uses this and all the negative predictions as motivation in the coming season.


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## charlz

Divine Spammer said:


> Humiliating game.


the word I was thinking of was demoralizing


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## Benis007

charlz said:


> the word I was thinking of was demoralizing


http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=humiliating


> 6 entries found for humiliating.
> Main Entry: abject
> Part of Speech: adjective
> Definition: hopeless
> Synonyms: base, contemptible, degraded, dejected, deplorable, destitute, dishonorable, downtrodden, fawning, forlorn, groveling, hang dog, hopeless, humbling, humiliating, low, miserable, outcast, pathetic, pitiable, pitiful, servile, squalid, stark, submissive, underfoot, worthless, wretched
> Antonyms: commendable, dignified, esteemed, exalted, excellent, honorable, hopeful, magnificent, noble, proud, worthy
> Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
> Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
> 
> Main Entry: derogatory
> Part of Speech: adjective
> Definition: offensive
> Synonyms: aspersing, belittling, calumnious, censorious, contumelious, critical, damaging, decrying, defamatory, degrading, demeaning, deprecatory, depreciative, despiteful, detracting, discreditable, disdainful, dishonoring, disparaging, fault-finding, humiliating, injurious, malevolent, malicious, maligning, minimizing, opprobrious, reproachful, sarcastic, scornful, slanderous, slighting, spiteful, uncomplimentary, unfavorable, unflattering, vilifying
> Antonyms: appreciative, approving, complimentary, flattering, praising
> Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
> Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
> 
> Main Entry: galling
> Part of Speech: adjective
> Definition: upsetting
> Synonyms: afflictive, aggravating, annoying, bitter, bothersome, distasteful, exasperating, grievous, harassing, humiliating, irksome, irritating, nettlesome, painful, plaguing, provoking, rankling, unpalatable, vexatious, vexing
> Antonyms: pleasing
> Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
> Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
> 
> Main Entry: opprobrious
> Part of Speech: adjective
> Definition: hateful
> Synonyms: abasing, abusive, calumniatory, contemptuous, contumelious, damaging, debasing, defamatory, defaming, denigrating, depreciative, derogative, despicable, despiteful, detractive, disgracing, dishonoring, disparaging, humiliating, hurting, injuring, injurious, insolent, insulting, invective, libeling, malevolent, malign, malignant, maligning, notorious, offending, offensive, pejorative, reproaching, reviling, scandalous, scurrilous, shaming, spiteful, truculent, vile, vitriolic, vituperative, vulgar
> Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
> Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
> 
> Main Entry: shameful
> Part of Speech: adjective
> Definition: atrocious
> Synonyms: base, carnal, contemptible, corrupt, dastardly, debauched, degrading, diabolical, disgraceful, dishonorable, disreputable, drunken, embarrassing, flagrant, gross, heinous, humiliating, ignominious, immodest, immoral, impure, indecent, infamous, intemperate, knavish, lewd, low, mean, mortifying, notorious, obscene, opprobrious, outrageous, profligate, reprehensible, reprobate, ribald, scandalous, shaming, shocking, sinful, unbecoming, unclean, unworthy, vile, villainous, vulgar, wicked
> Antonyms: admirable, honorable
> Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
> Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
> 
> Main Entry: vile
> Part of Speech: adjective
> Definition: offensive
> Synonyms: abandoned, abject, appalling, bad, base, cheesy, coarse, contemptible, corrupt, cruddy, debased, degenerate, depraved, despicable, disgraceful, disgusting, evil, filthy, foul, grungy, horrible, horrid, humiliating, ignoble, immoral, impure, iniquitous, loathsome, low, mean, miserable, nasty, nauseating, nefarious, noxious, perverted, raunchy, repellent, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, scuzzy, shocking, sickening, sinful, sleazy, stinking, ugly, vicious, vulgar, wicked, worthless, wretched
> Antonyms: gentle, kind, nice
> Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
> Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.


nuff said


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## [email protected]

has ANYONE found the Boxscore for this game?


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## maccabi fan

Divine Spammer said:


> Rose's statement is 99% crap.
> I've seen Maccabi play much harder.
> 
> It's just an excuse. For Jalen, it is very easy to say "Yeah, they gave 110% of themselves, and we gave 70%...", however the truth is- Toronto (most players, to be correct) played BAD basketball in the 2nd half.
> 
> What did you want him say? Something like this?:
> "I sucked and played like an egomaniac, I didn't the ball to our star, Chris. As a result, I got owned by Maccabi's defence and we've lost the game."
> 
> Moreover, I don't understand why Sam didn't send JMC to the court. He knows how to cope with zone defences better than our other players, and he's Pass-first. A thing which we needed badly.


the match-up-zone is not a regular zone defences...


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## TRON

> Originally posted by *Charlz !*
> 
> the word I was thinking of was demoralizing


I think demorembarashamed sums it up pretty nicely :biggrin:


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## speedythief

[email protected] said:


> has ANYONE found the Boxscore for this game?


The NBA doesn't consider this type of game an official preseason game so I don't think they send an official scorekeeper, meaning there probably won't be an NBA boxscore. Try looking for it from Maccabi sources.


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## TRON

> Originally posted by *Jalen Rose !*
> 
> "They played this game like it was their championship game, and rightfully so," Rose said. "Those guys are hungry for NBA jobs. You don't just go to Europe because you're turning down the NBA, you're going to Europe because you want to be in the NBA so when you're standing up against a guy in front of you that's is in the NBA, you want to prove to anybody that's watching that you're NBA-worthy."



it's kinda like he's making himself feel better by putting down their team, that's kinda childish


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## bigbabyjesus

Dissapointing to say the least. I know Macabbi is considered the best team in Europe, but they are that, a European team. I am not surprised though, because I expect the Raptors to be among the worst teams in the NBA. Nonetheless, losing to a European team is unacceptable.

I've been saying this for close to a year.. Get Jalen out. He is nothing but a bad influence on our young players. I don't want our young guys looking up and learning from a guy who refuses to play defense, and is a ballhog. He can only hurt the development of our team with his selfishness. 

Extremely impressed with Chris Bosh today. I cannot stress how amazing he looked. He hasn't bulked up, but you can definetly tell he added strength. We all know that he needed to develop a post game, and it seems as though he has been working on that. Did a lot of damage in the post, and was an absolute beast on the boards. Maybe it was because it was Macabbi, but he was absolutely dominating them. Would have scored 40+ if we didn't shy away from him, and if Macabbi didn't go into that retarded zone. 

Thoughts on other players:

Mike James - Some may say he chucked up a lot of shots yesterday, but I think he played well. He is most definetly a shoot first point guard, but unlike Rafer, he takes good shots, within the flow of the offense. Was open for a lot of shots today, and took them. Can't blame him. Also, he nearly won us the game by himself. He was great in clutch time.

Jose Calderon - Decent game, definetly a step down from his prior two games. Showed his good handles and ability to blow by his defender. I think he just had one basket, which was a jumper from the top of the key. Did a decent job creating for his teammates. Was getting blown by on defense by Solomon (I think). I like the fact that he never stops talking, despite not having a great grasp on the english language. Could develop into a great leader.

Morris Peterson - Terrible, terrible, terrible. He carried on his awful play from the last two games. He was 3-16 or something like that; probably worse. When a players shot isn't falling, you would like him to attack the basket and get to the free throw line to get some confidence back. But Morris Peterson kept on shooting, and they were awful shots. I think Mo-Pete might have single handedly lost us this game. 

Charlie Villanueva - Played very well in the 1st half. He was on fire for one part of the first half where he hit some really tough shots (especially that turnaround fadeaway jumper from the corner, while being double teamed). Struggled a bit on the defensive end on the perimeter, but did a decent job in the post. He did a good job on the boards. Didn't play much in the second half, for some reason. He could have really helped us down the stretch.

Matt Bonner - Scored all of his points off the dribble on a little floater in the lane. Was not good on the defensive end, as usual. 

Loren Woods - Was doing a good job on the offensive boards for the 1st quarter, and scored a couple of baskets. Got absolutely abused on the defensive end. 

Rafael Araujo - I actually thought he played decent.. Grabbed a few boards. Had absolutely no confidence on the offensive end. There was a possession where he got a pass from Jalen on the break, and had a chance for a layup, but passed it back out. I think I heard a chorus of boos when that happened. Didn't see any time after the 1st qtr.


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## Divine Spammer

I agree with almost everything vigi has said.

I loved Bosh's play last night and I constnatly mumbled- "WOW, he's amazing". Nevertheless, I'm not completely satisfied with his play around the boards. 
I know he's usually gets his confidence as the season progress, but 12 boards against Maccabi isn't enough, IMO, although he looked good and did a nice job all in all. 

Charlie's looking nice. Very nice. =)

Sam's subs and the rotation he used at the 2nd half were weird. This is what eventually caused the defeat. He saw Jalen and Mo were playing bad. However, he has chosen not to do a thing.


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## Chris Bosh #4

The American teams are making fun of us because we lost to an international team, but have they already forgot that there OLYMPIC TEAM lost to Argentina? I no there is no excuse, but does that mean that American talent is worst than International talent? No it does not, but if we lose, we're all of a sudden the worst team in the league, and D-League talent.


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## ansoncarter

bleh


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## fezqo

vigilante said:


> Nonetheless, losing to a European team is unacceptable.
> 
> .


Losing to the Hawks or the Hornets is an embarrassment, losing to one of the best teams in Europe is just a loss, no more no less.


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## bigbabyjesus

fezqo said:


> Losing to the Hawks or the Hornets is an embarrassment, losing to one of the best teams in Europe is just a loss, no more no less.


We are a team in the NBA; the best league in the world. I think its unacceptable to lose to a team that isn't apart of this league, even if they are the best team in Europe. Thats just me.


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## maccabi fan

vigilante said:


> We are a team in the NBA; the best league in the world. I think its unacceptable to lose to a team that isn't apart of this league, even if they are the best team in Europe. Thats just me.


you all have to open your minds to another game. a euro game. a team game. not a game of one on one or post up. this is not basketball.

the "dreamteam" is loosing because the don't understand the game as it is played in europe. the zone D, the match up zone.

I'm not talking out of arrogance. I think, dispite what you're saying about being one of the wrost team in the NBA, that one on one you still got a better players on every post on the floor, and a better bench. therefor shuld have win, if you played as a team (and not the boring one on one or post up) but maccabi played a team player on D and on O.


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## L

wasnt that euro team led by an american player?
:fball: idk.


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