# Webster needs to be more aggressive



## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

The Blazers coaching staff need to grab Webster by the shirt collar, and tell him to step it up. It's summer league, he needs to assert himself and be aggressive. Who cares if he misses or makes a mistake? He won't amount to anything in the NBA if he just stands around and waits for a free jumpshot.

Portland should run the offense through Webster, Oden and Aldridge. The summer league is about developing them, not scrubs that we know will never amount to anything.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Webster is frustrating to watch play. He shows glimpses of great athleticism and his shot looks silky smooth but it doesn't translate into anything.


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## HAAK72 (Jun 18, 2007)

He had a fairly solid game...not sure what you were watching, but I would be more than happy if he averaged 18 pts. / 8 reb. / 50% 3FG / 100% FT


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## toutlaw25 (Aug 7, 2005)

I thought he looked fairly good out there, especially in the second half. If you look at his rebounding numbers they were pretty decent. You usually don't get those kind of boards from the wing position by standing around.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

I thought he really struggled until halfway threw the second half. The stats dont tell the whole story. Was glad he started playing well at the end though.


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## azsun18 (Aug 12, 2004)

I didnt see the 4ht quarter, but I thought he looked horrible the rest of the time. He has no clue how to play defense. he looks just as lost as last year, and this is summer league. He does tease us becuase his shot is so smooth, but I am at the point where if we need to throw him into a trade to get a better player, I am all for it. I am not say run him out of town, I am saying don't let him be a trade stopper for a very good SF. If you bring it Marion or Wallace there won't be very many minutes left for him anyways.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

HAAK72 said:


> He had a fairly solid game...not sure what you were watching, but I would be more than happy if he averaged 18 pts. / 8 reb. / 50% 3FG / 100% FT


Sure, I'd be happy with that too. As long as it didn't come after the game was basically already decided and after he played bad for the first 3 quarters and didn't play defense.


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## chairman (Jul 2, 2006)

Hap said:


> Sure, I'd be happy with that too. As long as it didn't come after the game was basically already decided and after he played bad for the first 3 quarters and didn't play defense.



You guys must have better computer screens than me. I could only see what the camera was showing. (BTW he had at least 6 rebounds, maybe 7 before the 4th quarter started.)I did see the play where the announcer pointed out his poor defense, but it wasn't his man. Granted his lateral quickness is not great and he should have helped out a better.

But how agressive do you want him to be on offense? He is not a one-on -one player. Run some screens for the guy.


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## For Three! Rip City! (Nov 11, 2003)

I realize he'll never be a dominant one on one scorer but the guy should at least be working on his penetration off the dribble in the SL. He didn't even try.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

He really should be more dominant against the Vegas competition. Gerald Green showed much better improvelent than Martell yet again. 

His best skills are rebounding and scoring in garbage time (is that skill?). Not sure if that's what we need from a SG on this roster. I'm ready to cut my losses with Martell when his contract is up.


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

Webster is probably a bust. It's a shame, nice guy.

Maybe we can somehow trade him to the Lakers for something- reunite him with Kobe.


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## BenDavis503 (Apr 11, 2007)

Yeah sucks that he is a bust. Seems like he has no passion for the game. I wanted to draft Gerald Green, not him.

What a waste.


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## chairman (Jul 2, 2006)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> Webster is probably a bust. It's a shame, nice guy.
> 
> Maybe we can somehow trade him to the Lakers for something- reunite him with Kobe.


How many good outside shooters do we have on the team? Two or three? Lets trade one of them away because he was picked too high in the draft. Get over it. With Oden and Aldridge and Roy we need players that can spread the floor. Webster may turn out to be one dimensional, but it is a role we need. Why dump him? Or do you think someone else is going to trade us a better player for him?


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Good Lord, how many times must we go over this concept?

He's not even 21 yet... have some patience for once.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

Sure Martell is 21, but he can't play basketball on the NBA level. If he went to college his stock would probably have dropped to the point he would be looking at a late 2nd round pick or undrafted by now. If NBA teams would have had time to scout his lack of speed and handles, there's no way they would project him as a lottery pick, much less a first rounder.

He's destined to play overseas on the path he going.


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Lets hold off on calling Martell a bust. He shows signs of being pretty good, he is a worker, and I really think it is a matter of maturing and gaining confidence. If he comes out this year and still does not manage to bring his game up another level, then The Blazers can start hinking about saying goodbye to him.

As a fervent Ammo supporter, a guy that is lambasted by everyone becuase of an up an down rookie year, I owe it to Martell to give him some growing pains. 

I really think the 3rd year is the tell on an NBA career.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

I think it's nuts that this is Webster's third summer league season and he still looks very raw. I can't imagine what the Blazer scouting staff saw in him in the first place


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## Captain Chaos (Dec 1, 2004)

Oil Can said:


> Lets hold off on calling Martell a bust. He shows signs of being pretty good, he is a worker, and I really think it is a matter of maturing and gaining confidence. If he comes out this year and still does not manage to bring his game up another level, then The Blazers can start hinking about saying goodbye to him.
> 
> As a fervent Ammo supporter, a guy that is lambasted by everyone becuase of an up an down rookie year, I owe it to Martell to give him some growing pains.
> 
> I really think the 3rd year is the tell on an NBA career.


I couldn't agree more. The third year is critical and Portland can then make a decision on Martell after the season is over. I think it will be quite obvious which direction to take at that time.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

John Nash said if they didn't work out a deal with Utah they would have taken Webster at #3! That's crazy. Webster has a long way to go. Right now he's definitely looking like a bust and destined to be a career role player.


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## Sug (Aug 7, 2006)

craigehlo said:


> If NBA teams would have had time to scout his *lack of speed* and handles, there's no way they would project him as a lottery pick, much less a first rounder.
> 
> *He's destined to play overseas on the path he going*.


Okay Martell is not "slow", in fact he is very fast. I would say that he is not "quick". I agree that his handles are not very good, but if you are a shooter, you don't need the handles. Keep in mind that Martell Webster turns 21 in December, he is still a young man. Nate said that Martell would take 3 to 4 years to develop into a special NBA player.

At age 20 Martell does Three things very well, and at the NBA level.

Martell shoots the three, rebounds, and runs the court at the NBA level. If he can do those things for this team, and continue to develop then he is just fine. There is no reason, nor any strategy that we should employ that has Martell Webster with the ball making decisions. Martell was drafting for his shooting. 

In spite of all of this, I think the Blazers are okay with moving Martell in a trade, as evident on draft day.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Nash picked Webster because he was hell-bent on taking a SG. He nixed Gereald Green because Green would not work out one on one, and the only decent SG prospect out there was Antonie Wright and the undersized McCants.(who haven't been lighting it up either). I was hoping for Green as well, and right now Green looks like a much better player. 

The 2005 draft is turning out to be a very poor class overall. Too bad Nash felt we had the PG position sealed with Telfair. At least we got Roy for Telfair, which is some consolation.

Webster has the tools to be very good, his just way too passive.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Bust! He will get better, but not nearly enough to justify his draft status. He has quite a ways to go to even be a useful rotation player on a good team. Hopefully he keeps his head up, keeps working hard and someday makes himself into a player better than Matt Carroll.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

SheedSoNasty said:


> Good Lord, how many times must we go over this concept?
> 
> He's not even 21 yet... have some patience for once.


Yea, I've been saying this for a long time... but there's so many idiots on this board, it just goes right through their heads. No point in even trying to defend Martell anymore. He's only...nevermind, not gonna even try anymore. :lol:


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

Wow, so funny. There's one idiotic "bust" comment, and then about 10 people who have no clue jump on the bandwagon yelling "bust, bust!!!" It's kind of sad, this should be a forum to discuss our players, not turn on them after 2 years out of high school. The kid is ****ING 21, it's ridiculous to even consider calling him a bust for at least 2 more years. 

It seems like half the posters here get drunk right before they decide to bestow the rest of us with their wisdom.
I MEAN SERIOUSLY. HOW CAN U CALL A KID WHO JUST TURNED 21 YEARS OLD A BUST?


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## BenDavis503 (Apr 11, 2007)

Easy. Age nothing. He is sucking and needs to step up.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

c_note said:


> HOW CAN U CALL A KID WHO JUST TURNED 21 YEARS OLD A BUST?


Because _he was taken high in the draft and isn't very good_. The same reason why one calls any player a bust. It's the definition of the word.

You can cry about it and call people idiot all you want, but Webster just isn't good.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

Sug said:


> Okay Martell is not "slow", in fact he is very fast.


He was getting BURNED yesterday on defense by Green and Ray. He couldn't even stay close to those guys when they put the ball on the floor.



Sug said:


> I agree that his handles are not very good, but if you are a shooter, you don't need the handles. Keep in mind that Martell Webster turns 21 in December, he is still a young man.


He's young but shoots well under 40% (36% actually) 3-pointers which isn't great for a guard that's supposed to be a sharpshooter with a great stroke. His ability to create his own shot isn't there either. 

The only thing I agree with is that he's a good rebounder. Whoopee. We can pick up a D-League player that hustles if we want our shooting guard to clean the glass and jack up ill-advised bricks.

Let's face it, he's taking up a roster spot that should he cleared for guys that knock down shots in games (not just draft workouts).


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

Most of his flaws seem to revolve around his main flaw, confidence. A lot of his ball handling and passing mistakes are due to indecisiveness with the ball (lack of confidence). His shot is money, when the game is all but decided but questionable when it counts, indecisiveness and thus confidence is also to blame here as he seems to be constantly questioning himself as to whether to take the shot (with the exception of garbage minutes).

Fortunately confidence is something that comes with maturity and experience, I could see a switch turning on in Martell one day and suddenly he could become a very effective player. That's the thing with players like Martell; they can turn their careers around on a dime.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

BenDavis503 said:


> Easy. Age nothing. He is sucking and needs to step up.


Age IS something. Age generally determines experience. Age usually determines maturity. Age usually determines strength. Saying that age is nothing is a joke.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

I don't understand how people don't realize how close Martell is to breaking out. He has all the tools, it is completely obvious that all he needs is more experience. Any knock people throw out there about him, the answer to it is more playing time/experience. He looks like he's in the best shape of his life so far...he's on the brink of breaking out and probably developing into a valuable starter, trust me. It just depends how the coaches handle him this year.


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## budselig (Jun 18, 2004)

Martell is a Person, as in a Chuck or a Wesley, and as such his upside has substantial limitations. He will peak as a spot up shooter who lets the game come to him, not as some ultra-aggressive wingman who takes it to the hole and finishes strong as some wish him to be. He'll be a valued contributor on a team with other sources of offense but not a go-to perimeter man who can create his own shot at will.


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## chairman (Jul 2, 2006)

craigehlo said:


> He was getting BURNED yesterday on defense by Green and Ray. He couldn't even stay close to those guys when they put the ball on the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Allen Ray was 3-10 and Green was 5-11. I watched the game 3 times and I saw Green blow by Martel a total of ONE time. (Martel had to reach out and foul him) Don't you think you are exagerating the facts just a little?

And as far as a "bust", yeah I do think most fans get a little fired up when they hear it, because it is so over used on message boards. And usually (Not saying it is in this case) but usually by the fans who are the least knowledgable about basketball. Go to Oregonlive for a perfect example. It is used all day long and usually by the biggest dumb @#$%es. You seldom ever hear the phrase coming out of the mouth of someone who actually played the game. You guys need to stop OVER USING it. It's annoying!

I will acknowledge one thing though, Martel does not have the handles on offense or the lateral quickness on defense to be a SG.(IMO) He is 6'7" 233 lbs. The guy is built to be a SF and nothing else. They can experiment all they want, but he still needs to be matched up with other SF's. (Unless it is someone like Wally Sczcberiak. He will get embarrassed by most SG's. Most SF's do.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I agree that Webster needs to play the small forward spot. I've been saying from day one that he's a small forward, and that he's going to (hopefully) be a Glen Rice/Tracey Murray (pre-injury) kind of player.

He was picked too high, that is true. Nash is a moron (as I said repeatedly when he was GM, and as I think most of us acknowledge now) and he not only locked onto Webster, but telegraphed that he'd locked onto him. (No need to even bring up the Chris Paul issue.)

I worried at the time that the team selected him for non-basketball reasons, and I think that was probably the case, unfortunately.

Will he ever live up to the #6 pick? Perhaps not. He certainly doesn't look like it now. But given that he's younger than several lottery picks in this year's draft, I'm entirely willing to hold off on calling him a "bust" and letting him mature and earn minutes if/when he improves.

Ed O.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

budselig said:


> Martell is a Person, as in a Chuck or a Wesley, and as such his upside has substantial limitations. He will peak as a spot up shooter who lets the game come to him, not as some ultra-aggressive wingman who takes it to the hole and finishes strong as some wish him to be. He'll be a valued contributor on a team with other sources of offense but not a go-to perimeter man who can create his own shot at will.


But, he's shown a few flashes of being able to slash. That's why he can be such an enigma. You don't know what you'll get from him and he'll pull off a thunderous dunk and nobody will have expected it.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

My favorite 2 players on the team are probably Martell and Travis. I love watching them develop their games and improve.
Travis showed some real spunk at the end of last year, I hope he can continue that this year. 

Most of the rest of the fans on this board, however, don't enjoy watching the team grow. They expect guys to hit 50% of 3's, lock-down defense, and 20+ ppg. Anything less, it's BUST BUST BUST. Sad, but true.

I should stop posting in this thread. But it really pisses me off so much.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

Talkhard said:


> I think it's nuts that this is Webster's third summer league season and he still looks very raw. *I can't imagine what the Blazer scouting staff saw in him in the first place*


i saw his workout video awhile back, and he was dominant in shooting drills. he made like 10 in a row from 30 feet out.

now although i bet skita did the same thing, martell should be able to step it up this year and make us all believers. i still say ray allen-type. hope-hope-hope


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

The last two drafts has made Webster into an after thought. Pritchard in control has more than made up for Nash's 2005 Draft blunder.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

drexlersdad said:


> i saw his workout video awhile back, and he was dominant in shooting drills. he made like 10 in a row from 30 feet out.
> 
> now although i bet skita did the same thing, martell should be able to step it up this year and make us all believers. i still say ray allen-type. hope-hope-hope


Not to get off-topic, but wtf is up with your avitar?!


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

c_note said:


> Most of the rest of the fans on this board, however, don't enjoy watching the team grow. They expect guys to hit 50% of 3's, lock-down defense, and 20+ ppg. Anything less, it's BUST BUST BUST. Sad, but true.


NOBODY said that. Way to exaggerate. All Martell would have to do to stop being called a the b-word is to stop playing badly and show us some reason to expect him to ever be more than a mediocre player. Show us ANYTHING besides standing around for open jumpers and chasing rebounds. We'd be lucky if Webster was ever as good as Quentin Richardson after he started having back problems. If you're the 6th pick, that makes you a you-know-what.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

c_note said:


> Most of the rest of the fans on this board, however, don't enjoy watching the team grow. They expect guys to hit 50% of 3's, lock-down defense, and 20+ ppg. Anything less, it's BUST BUST BUST. Sad, but true.


I also like to watch this team grow. Roy and LaMarcus have shown amazing growth. Jack, Sergio and Travis has shown strides as well.

Martell hasn't shown any appreciable growth. Don't confuse the reality of his lack of development with a lack of patience. 

His upside is looking smaller and smaller as time goes on. And his chances of tapping that limited upside seem pretty slim.


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## BrooklynBaller (Jun 25, 2003)

QRICH said:


> Not to get off-topic, but wtf is up with your avitar?!


Thanks man, glad I'm not the only one that thinks that's kinda creepy. Why on God's green Earth would you pick THAT as your avatar?


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

BrooklynBaller said:


> Thanks man, glad I'm not the only one that thinks that's kinda creepy. Why on God's green Earth would you pick THAT as your avatar?


It's a pregnant alien in a wheelchair. Interesting.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

SheedSoNasty said:


> Good Lord, how many times must we go over this concept?
> 
> He's not even 21 yet... have some patience for once.


I agree with you that yes he is only 21. But then I will remind you that there are not very many late bloomers in the NBA. They usually get it by year 3 or they don't. How many times have we been through this before, where players in their 3rd and 4th year, and guys are saying "they are only 21 or 22". Then they don't get any better, and at year 6, you are wishing you didn't waste the time on them. Miles. Outlaw. Now possibly Martell. 

Now I know what you are going to say. Jermaine Oneal. But I will remind you of this. Oneal played behind 2 of the best power forwards in the league and Sabonis. Of course it was hard for him to get playing time. But can you say the same of any of the above mentioned players? There is nothing holding Martell back from taking the starting spot but himself. Just like it was for Outlaw, and Miles. There was nobody in particular talented enough to hold them back from the top spot. Nothing against Idoka, but lets face it, he was brought in from the D-League because none of these guys has what it takes to be a starting forward, and he was a stop gap. 

Last but not least, notice he common denominator. John Nash. That guy is a horrible judge of talent.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

What about Gerald Wallace? He did next to nothing for nearly 5 years. It's easy to call out Jermaine O'Neal, but there are plenty of other late bloomers (T-Mac, for instance) that are out there.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

SheedSoNasty said:


> What about Gerald Wallace? He did next to nothing for nearly 5 years. It's easy to call out Jermaine O'Neal, but there are plenty of other late bloomers (T-Mac, for instance) that are out there.


Thats not true. Gerald Wallace played very well on a stacked Sacramento team with Peja Stoichovich getting most of the minutes. His situation is more of an JO situation then the situation here. Peja was a bonified all star the years Wallace was there.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

SheedSoNasty said:


> What about Gerald Wallace? He did next to nothing for nearly 5 years. It's easy to call out Jermaine O'Neal, but there are plenty of other late bloomers (T-Mac, for instance) that are out there.


That's a very bad comparison. Wallace produced immediately when given playing time in Charlotte (he was only getting 10 minutes per game in Sactown). 

The EXACT same situation happened when Jermaine went from the Blazer bench to starting in Indy. Both guys thrived when given the opportunity for minutes.

Martell put up another stinker of game today even though he played against mostly sub-NBA talent and got more than 37 minutes of PT! There's only 40 minutes of PT in summer league! Dude isn't even NBA bench quality.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

If Webster and Rodriguez continue this, they will play themselves out of the rotation, or at least out of big minutes. I was a fan of handing the reigns to Sergio and letting Martell see big minutes at backup SG and SF, but these two guys are just not ready. We need to sign Steve Blake...and our SF position is going to be a major weakness once again.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

What if Wallace, O'Neal, etc ended up getting the time in the early stages of their careers? Although it's nothing but speculation, I doubt they would have put up stellar numbers.

No matter what comparisons we draw up, or what anyone can say about his production, the fact is that he's still young. Unless a great deal rolls around, I want to give him at the very least this year to see what else he can do.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Webby wasn't ready to come out, and if he had gone to college after High School, I have no doubt he'd still be there. It's not necessarily correct to judge a guy based on how many years he's been in the league vs how old he is. Because Webster should be going into his jr year at college.

But the point is, this is summer league, he is going against his peers(most of which will not have NBA careers), and he is not distinguishing himself at all.

We've seen him play much better against NBA competition than he is against tehse scrubs...so I just wonder what's up with him?


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

It's the 2nd game of summer league dude, give it a rest, he's a roleplayer, not a D.WADE or Kobe.....


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## adotjames (Jun 21, 2005)

Wasn't he 3 for 8 with 6 boards? Where's all this negativity coming from? I've seen Martell do a good job of playing within the offinsive system these past two games. He keeps the ball moving and doesn't take bad shots. Isn't that what role players are for?


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

adotjames said:


> Wasn't he 3 for 8 with 6 boards? Where's all this negativity coming from? I've seen Martell do a good job of playing within the offinsive system these past two games. He keeps the ball moving and doesn't take bad shots. Isn't that what role players are for?


He was 3-9. So making 3 shots at 33% in full time minutes in Summer league impresses you? If he is doing this against summer league comepetition, how will he fare in the NBA?


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## Rip City Reign (Jul 1, 2007)

BenDavis503 said:


> Yeah sucks that he is a bust. Seems like he has no passion for the game. I wanted to draft Gerald Green, not him.
> 
> What a waste.


The only way he is a bust is if the team trades him for crap. That would be a waste. He is only 20 years old! If he was 25 and had 4 years of college behind him, you could make a reasonable conclusion that he would not develop beyond where he is today.

Since the Blazers can carry 15 players, there is an opportunity for Martell to develop. Just give the kid time.


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## Rip City Reign (Jul 1, 2007)

Yega1979 said:


> If Webster and Rodriguez continue this, they will play themselves out of the rotation, or at least out of big minutes. I was a fan of handing the reigns to Sergio and letting Martell see big minutes at backup SG and SF, but these two guys are just not ready. We need to sign Steve Blake...and our SF position is going to be a major weakness once again.


Did you expect Martell to start at the 3?? Martell will be getting 10-15 mpg in the Juan Dixon role this year. Jones and/or the "acclaimed player" will be getting the bulk of the SF minutes.

Sergio needs to be more aggressive and learn to stay in front of his man on defense.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Rip City Reign said:


> Did you expect Martell to start at the 3?? Martell will be getting 10-15 mpg in the Juan Dixon role this year. Jones and/or the "acclaimed player" will be getting the bulk of the SF minutes.
> 
> Sergio needs to be more aggressive and learn to stay in front of his man on defense.



Martell was as good good a canidate as anyone. Udoka may not be resigned...Miles is a huge question mark, Outlaw doesn't really have the skill set of a SF, and we didn't draft a SF.

Right now it's looking like James Jones will be the starter, but I was hoping Webster would step it up.


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## adotjames (Jun 21, 2005)

Yega1979 said:


> He was 3-9. So making 3 shots at 33% in full time minutes in Summer league impresses you? If he is doing this against summer league comepetition, how will he fare in the NBA?


So that's what all this is about? The fact that he shot 33% in one game? There have been a couple of decent players who have shot that poorly a time or two.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Yega1979 said:


> Martell was as good good a canidate as anyone. Udoka may not be resigned...Miles is a huge question mark, *Outlaw doesn't really have the skill set of a SF, and we didn't draft a SF.*
> 
> Right now it's looking like James Jones will be the starter, but I was hoping Webster would step it up.


I think TO can play the SF just fine. He has a very nice jump shot now, hustles, pretty much a more athletic Ruben Patterson with a jumpshot.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Blazer Freak said:


> I think TO can play the SF just fine. He has a very nice jump shot now, hustles, pretty much a more athletic Ruben Patterson with a jumpshot.


He can't put the ball on the floor in traffic to save his life.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

hasoos said:


> He can't put the ball on the floor in traffic to save his life.


He actually did it pretty effectively in the last 2 games of the season. Time will tell if this was a fluke or not.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

andalusian said:


> He actually did it pretty effectively in the last 2 games of the season. Time will tell if this was a fluke or not.


Wow a whole 2 games out of his whole career! It must be a pattern!


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

hasoos said:


> Wow a whole 2 games out of his whole career! It must be a pattern!



wow, the same type of thread after (enter any blazer player here) has a bad game, or set of games! bleh; i'm just glad people on here dont speak for the team...


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

blue32 said:


> wow, the same type of thread after (enter any blazer player here) has a bad game, or set of games! bleh; i'm just glad people on here dont speak for the team...


No not really, because for the most part, Martell has had very few good games. He has had a few stretches where he produced, but for the most part I think a lot of folks are starting to get impatient. Fans around here are hungry for wins and not excuses. Believe me that when it comes down to it, IMO all of the fans on this board want Martell to turn into a good player. But at the same time, I believe it is very frustrating for fans to watch a player not improve much over 3 years. 

It basically comes down to this: For 3 years, we have got to hear about how Martell has a great jump shot. How Martell has great athletic ability. How he is a good kid. 

But then we get into the regular season, and he shoots under 40% from the field, is not agressive in attacking the basket even though he has the athletic ability to do so, and repeats the same defensive mistakes he did when he was a rookie, over and over and over. 

If he would just make his jump shots half this board would quit complaining, they could live with the defensive mistakes.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

hasoos said:


> Wow a whole 2 games out of his whole career! It must be a pattern!


Or it could be a young player working on his game and finally getting the confidence and game understanding he lacked before.

Travis can put the ball to the floor. The only question is - will he continue to do it or will he just settle for jumpers. If it is the former - he has the physical tools to be a very effective offensive player and an NBA starter. If he does not continue to work on attacking the rim - he will never take advantage of his physical gift.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

andalusian said:


> Or it could be a young player working on his game and finally getting the confidence and game understanding he lacked before.
> 
> Travis can put the ball to the floor. The only question is - will he continue to do it or will he just settle for jumpers. If it is the former - he has the physical tools to be a very effective offensive player and an NBA starter. If he does not continue to work on attacking the rim - he will never take advantage of his physical gift.


Or it could be that he had a contract on the line and Theo Ratliff told him how to step it up.:biggrin:


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

hasoos said:


> No not really, because for the most part, Martell has had very few good games. He has had a few stretches where he produced, but for the most part I think a lot of folks are starting to get impatient. Fans around here are hungry for wins and not excuses. Believe me that when it comes down to it, IMO all of the fans on this board want Martell to turn into a good player. But at the same time, I believe it is very frustrating for fans to watch a player not improve much over 3 years.
> 
> It basically comes down to this: For 3 years, we have got to hear about how Martell has a great jump shot. *How Martell has great athletic ability. * How he is a good kid.
> 
> ...


Actually everyone said he was a average athelete. He's definitely shown otherwise.

The thing with Martell right now is this. We want him to develop his ball-handling and driving ability, and defense. And in the first 2 games, I think he's done that. But he also needs to be consistent from the outside, something he hasn't shown this SL. 

He just needs to learn to put it together and he can be a player. His defense, IMO has improved quite a bit from when he was a rookie, and has been much more agressive taking it to the hoop. If he can just keep that J consistent, he can be a 13ppg scorer this season.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Blazer Freak said:


> Actually everyone said he was a average athelete. He's definitely shown otherwise.
> 
> The thing with Martell right now is this. We want him to develop his ball-handling and driving ability, and defense. And in the first 2 games, I think he's done that. But he also needs to be consistent from the outside, something he hasn't shown this SL.
> 
> He just needs to learn to put it together and he can be a player. His defense, IMO has improved quite a bit from when he was a rookie, and has been much more agressive taking it to the hoop. If he can just keep that J consistent, he can be a 13ppg scorer this season.



Oh no not everyone. Some of us read his workout numbers. I believe he had a 38" vertical. That not the crazy 40" + that some guys have, but it is pretty good.:biggrin: He is also one of the fastest guys on the team from what I understand. :biggrin:


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

hasoos said:


> Or it could be that he had a contract on the line and Theo Ratliff told him how to step it up.:biggrin:


It is a possibility, for sure, but the reports present TO as a good guy - in the end - you claimed he can not put the ball on the floor and he obviously can - if you claim that all the tennis balls in the world are yellow it only takes one red ball to render your statement moot, likewise, if you say that Travis can not put the ball on the floor and he does it in two games - your statement is wrong.

If Travis is worth signing for X or Y amounts of dollars is another question all together.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

hasoos said:


> No not really, because for the most part, Martell has had very few good games. He has had a few stretches where he produced, but for the most part I think a lot of folks are starting to get impatient. Fans around here are hungry for wins and not excuses. Believe me that when it comes down to it, IMO all of the fans on this board want Martell to turn into a good player. But at the same time, I believe it is very frustrating for fans to watch a player not improve much over 3 years.
> 
> It basically comes down to this: For 3 years, we have got to hear about how Martell has a great jump shot. How Martell has great athletic ability. How he is a good kid.
> 
> ...


You said 3 years a lot in this post. Martell was drafted just 2 years ago...

Not saying that you don't have reasons to criticize, but let's be fair about it.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Blazer Ringbearer said:


> You said 3 years a lot in this post. Martell was drafted just 2 years ago...
> 
> Not saying that you don't have reasons to criticize, but let's be fair about it.


He is in his 3rd year. This is his 3rd summer league. That is what I meant. So keeping splitting hairs if it keeps you happy. :biggrin:


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Granted, Webs hasn't turned the league on fire and become the darling from the 2005 draft.

For those who keep harping on his draft position (#6) - it's always easy to second guess someones decisions after the fact!!

Is Webster as good as Tracy Murray? If he has an identical career as Murray - would he be regarded as a flop or bust?? IMO - no.

At this point - I hope he becomes a rotation player (top 8-9) for this team. He doesn't appear to be as far along as Outlaw (who's sitting right at #5-#7) but is our best shooter from deep. 

I understand the frustration his slow development causes - but we must wait until he's a bit older before calling him a total bust. Jim Paxson was a bust according to these parameters at age 23!!


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

andalusian said:


> It is a possibility, for sure, but the reports present TO as a good guy - in the end - you claimed he can not put the ball on the floor and he obviously can - if you claim that all the tennis balls in the world are yellow it only takes one red ball to render your statement moot, likewise, if you say that Travis can not put the ball on the floor and he does it in two games - your statement is wrong.
> 
> If Travis is worth signing for X or Y amounts of dollars is another question all together.


Oh I see how it is. Travis supposedly puts the ball on the floor well in 2 meaningless games at the end of the season, with both of them being extreme blow outs, and him playing a lot of garbage time, and now he is "being able to put the ball on the floor." 

Yep I am pretty sure that defensive intensity is pretty high when your down by 26+ in the 4th quarter. It takes a player with "Mad Skillz" to put the ball on floor then.:biggrin: 

Maybe next he will demonstrate his mad skills at finishing in traffic. Maybe he will follow that up by possibly for the first time in his career, actually hitting the gymn and putting on some muscle so he doesn't get tossed around like a rag doll in the paint. 

Yep you sure have convinced me.:biggrin:


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Outlaw went to the rim 5 times against Utah in the 2nd quarter and Utah was playing for home court advantage against Houston in the playoffs during that game. It was too early for garbage time and Utah was playing with a purpose in this game.

Against GSW (playing for Playoff appearance - they just squeaked in) he went to the rim once in the 1st quarter and 5 times in the 2nd quarter - again - it was an important game for the opponent and it happened before garbage time.

You can continue to mock as you wish - but Outlaw obviously can go to the rim against NBA competition when it matters. 

Does he have amazing ball handling skills? No. But he is good enough to attack with a dribble when he tries. The only question is if he is going to continue to work on it and attack or if he is going to regress into a jump shooter.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

hasoos said:


> He is in his 3rd year. This is his 3rd summer league. That is what I meant. So keeping splitting hairs if it keeps you happy. :biggrin:


I think I will... it's only TWO GAMES into his 3rd summer league.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

hasoos, why are you so critical of him? What's it going to do for the team or the board? cause a mass revolt on webster and have him traded?


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Blazer Freak said:


> The thing with Martell right now is this. We want him to develop his ball-handling and driving ability, and defense.


Word. 

Everyone wants him to do this and that, and this and that, and because he's trying to improve in all these other areas I think his shooting has suffered. He just thinks too much out there. 

He just needs to play. It sounds easy, but for some people it can be hard to do. 

This year is the make-or-break year for Martell. So far his summer league isn't what I was hoping for.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Blazer Ringbearer said:


> I think I will... it's only TWO GAMES into his 3rd summer league.


C'mon!

Webster's been sucking for the better part of half a decade!

Get the torches!

Ed O.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

I'm not trying to say close the book on Webster, but he should definitly be playing better against SUMMER LEAGUE competition.


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