# Is Paul Pierce better than Kobe?



## DiceMoney (Mar 4, 2006)

Am not about the stat sheet. But Pierce seems to have this understanding of the game. I really think the most important part of the game is mental. I don't know, Paul seems like he is getting there. Kobe is every once a blue moon type of deal. I think Paul might be the smarter player. Kobe more gifted, but Pierce just getting to understand. Pierce today is my vote. He is understanding what Duncan when trough.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

I think Pierce is overrated...


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Hes obviously the smarter player and is on the same level as kobe offensively and a good defender but i like Kobes killer instinct which is why i pick him over Paul and the rest of the league players.


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## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

I think they are equal but different


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Here's a perfect quote by none other than Sir Charles himself:

"Danny Ainge has to realize that some of the best basketball players are some of the best dumb guys in the world. Until he learns that, the Boston Celtics will not be successful. You don't go to Harvard and Yale to get great basketball players...you go there to get lawyers and accountants. You have to go to the ghetto to get the good players. You have to learn that Danny Ainge." -- Barkley, on Ainge's plan of finding "smart" players.


Also my view on it is this, if Phil Jackson says that Kobe is one of the smartest players he's ever coached then I will beleive that over what some kid on a message board perceives to be the truth. I mean Kobe's mastered the triangle offense which is arguably the most complicated offense in basketball. All his teamates have always said he was smart as well.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

DiceMoney said:


> Am not about the stat sheet. But Pierce seems to have this understanding of the game. I really think the most important part of the game is mental. I don't know, Paul seems like he is getting there. Kobe is every once a blue moon type of deal. I think Paul might be the smarter player. Kobe more gifted, but Pierce just getting to understand. Pierce today is my vote. He is understanding what Duncan when trough.


In no way, shape or form is Paul Pirce beter than Kobe Bryant.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Air Fly said:


> Hes obviously the smarter player and is on the same level as kobe offensively and a good defender but i like Kobes killer instinct which is why i pick him over Paul and the rest of the league players.



Same level offensively? I don't think there is anyone on the same level as Kobe offensively... and these days its not even close.

But I hardly, as someone else mentioned, think Pierce is overrated either. He is definitely one of the best wings in the game.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

No, and read the top 10 players list in this forum. It will give you a good indication of where the best players rank.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Also my view on it is this, if Phil Jackson says that Kobe is one of the smartest players he's ever coached then I will beleive that over what some kid on a message board perceives to be the truth. I mean Kobe's mastered the triangle offense which is arguably the most complicated offense in basketball. All his teamates have always said he was smart as well.


If you believe that Kobe is a very smart basketball player, then believe it. But don't take Phil's word for it. Don't ever take Phil's word at face value on anything. He is the ultimate politician/manipulator. His words are words to create a desired response. They are not the truth. Now more power to Phil because he's the best at what he does, but when he makes a statement like that its to get what he wants out of a player, not because its the truth.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

But you'd have no problem beleiving Phil if he were to ever criticize Kobe negatively right?


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

SeaNet said:


> If you believe that Kobe is a very smart basketball player, then believe it. But don't take Phil's word for it. Don't ever take Phil's word at face value on anything. He is the ultimate politician/manipulator. His words are words to create a desired response. They are not the truth. Now more power to Phil because he's the best at what he does, but when he makes a statement like that its to get what he wants out of a player, not because its the truth.


you say this because it came from Phil Jackson OR because the statement was made describing Kobe Bryant???

Jellybean Jr. is indeed a smart player. You cant be the best player in the game and NOT be


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

JNice said:


> Same level offensively? I don't think there is anyone on the same level as Kobe offensively... and these days its not even close.
> 
> But I hardly, as someone else mentioned, think Pierce is overrated either. He is definitely one of the best wings in the game.


What does Kobe do offensively that Pierce cant?


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Pierce is a good player...but this is kinda like the Bibby vs Nash post.

Not even close.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

> I think Pierce is overrated...


hes underrated if anything.

Paul is not at Kobe's level right now, maybe next year. But he was as good as Kobe in earlier years. He just needs to be as aggressive as Kobe. He is definitely the more efficient scorer but he doesnt shoot as much as Kobe. Thats the only thing IMO, hes just gotta shoot a lot more to be on the same level.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> But you'd have no problem beleiving Phil if he were to ever criticize Kobe negatively right?


Dont get carried away..its only his opinion like any others. Doesnt mean jack..


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Air Fly said:


> What does Kobe do offensively that Pierce cant?


Good question


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## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

Air Fly said:


> What does Kobe do offensively that Pierce cant?


chuck the ball.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Air Fly said:


> What does Kobe do offensively that Pierce cant?


I guess i got my point through.

and LMAO at the guy who said in order for Pierce to be on Kobes level he needs to shoot more. 

cmon man, why does he need to shoot more when infact those few shots he takes results in him averaging around 27 points per game?


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Pierce got game.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Pierce is close to Kobe Bryant's level, but he's not as good. He is an elite wing though.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Paul Pierce is under rated.

He is close to Bryant, but not better. Paul Pierce scores 30+ points by getting to the foul line, there were plenty of games where Pierce scored around that figure with 12-13 shot attempts. Put Pierce on a team with a scoring big, and watch him thrive even more.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Here's a perfect quote by none other than Sir Charles himself:
> 
> "Danny Ainge has to realize that some of the best basketball players are some of the best dumb guys in the world. Until he learns that, the Boston Celtics will not be successful. You don't go to Harvard and Yale to get great basketball players...you go there to get lawyers and accountants. You have to go to the ghetto to get the good players. You have to learn that Danny Ainge." -- Barkley, on Ainge's plan of finding "smart" players.


Brain typing is different than measuring someone's intelligence by their GPA, college choice, SAT, IQ Test, etc. It's basically how you use your brain (divided into four main categories, I believe). I agree that it is ridiculous, though. To sign Scalabrine for five years ($15,000,000) because of his brain type is crazy.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

PauloCatarino said:


> In no way, shape or form is Paul Pirce beter than Kobe Bryant.


Agreed.

There really is nothing to discuss here. It's quite obvious.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Pierce isn't better than Kobe; however, this season he is in a battle with Wade for the 3rd best wing player in the NBA behind Kobe and LeBron


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I would really like someone to tell me what Kobe does better than Pierce. I can get the defense aspect, but really is there anything Kobe can do on the offensive end that Pierce cant. Not everyone has the luxury to shoot the ball 25 or so times a game.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

The one area Pierce trails Kobe in is his game off the dribble. Not that it's bad, but his handles could use a little improvement. Kobe can get anywhere on the floor at anytime. Pierce struggles at times, compared to Kobe, getting his shot off the dribble from the perimeter. 

Personally, I think Pierce is underrated. At the guard/forward position, who do you put over him? Carter? I don't know, it's tough. I'd take Pierce. McGrady can't F with Pierce this year. Wade? I'd take Wade, but Pierce might be a better fit depending on the team. Kobe is better. So that puts Pierce at the 2/3 slot. Throw Lebron in the argument and he might slide down a position, but not in my book. He's an elite player, and it's time errybody recognized it. 

I'm still having nightmares of him posting up Patterson and Buckner during Sunday's game. He's a load.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Pierce is not as good as Bryant, but those of you who say it isn't close are kidding yourselves.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> The one area Pierce trails Kobe in is his game off the dribble. Not that it's bad, but his handles could use a little improvement. Kobe can get anywhere on the floor at anytime. Pierce struggles at times, compared to Kobe, getting his shot off the dribble from the perimeter.


Bingo. Kobe is also quicker and that helps him create a bit more separation with his man than Pierce does.

Pierce is real good, but there is no question that Kobe is better.


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## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

Pierce is underrated but he's not at Kobe's level. Kobe is the best right now IMO. Kobe is quicker and more athletic, but Pierce is tougher on the block. Anyone who can score 30+ in his last 15 or something games while still leading his team in like 3 or 4 categories is a badass. Also throw in there a 50pt game vs. Cleveland and the boy is def underrated.

Masked cursing. - *Premier*


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## JFizzleRaider (Nov 1, 2004)

Kobe is the most gifted player in the league. Pierce is great, an All-Star/Superstar player, but Kobe he is not, nor will he ever be.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

and Kobe is an excellent finisher with both hands..


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Well maybe a better way would be to compare what the two do better than the other. I'll start off with this, Pierce's post up game is light years ahead of Kobes'. Alright not light years, but definitely better


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## DiceMoney (Mar 4, 2006)

Hbwoy said:


> I would really like someone to tell me what Kobe does better than Pierce. I can get the defense aspect, but really is there anything Kobe can do on the offensive end that Pierce cant. Not everyone has the luxury to shoot the ball 25 or so times a game.


And Pierce has the cuts of a terrific football player on of the ball. People don't understand that Rip Hamilton has skills on of the ball stuff too. But whatever.


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

is it just me or most of Kobe's points come from fadeways on sides of the free-throw line? I think Paul Pierce is more versatile offensively, but kobe plays better D, that's why Kobe edges pierce.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

VC_15 said:


> is it just me or most of Kobe's points come from fadeways on sides of the free-throw line? I think Paul Pierce is more versatile offensively, but kobe plays better D, that's why Kobe edges pierce.


 It's just you.


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> It's just you.




what a shocker, coming from a Kobe fan :biggrin:


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

JFizzleRaider said:


> *Kobe is the most gifted player in the league. * Pierce is great, an All-Star/Superstar player, but Kobe he is not, nor will he ever be.


Gonna have to disagree with you there pal. Even though I hate him , Vince Carter is without a question the most gifted player in the L.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

VC_15 said:


> is it just me or* most of Kobe's points come from fadeways on sides of the free-throw line?* I think Paul Pierce is more versatile offensively, but kobe plays better D, that's why Kobe edges pierce.


IM not surprised its coming from a non Kobe fan..


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> IM not surprised its coming from a non Kobe fan..



Can you deny what i said? Kobe most of the time posts up on the 45 angles of the free-throw line. takes the ball goes to his left and does a fadeaway, he just makes most of them because he's that damn good. But that's his move. Pierce , you never expect what's coming from him.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

The_Notic said:


> Gonna have to disagree with you there pal. Even though I hate him , *Vince Carter** is without a question the most gifted player in the L*.


Elaborate a little bit more on that statement Notic, gifted in what way before I'll respond.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

VC_15 said:


> Can you deny what i said? Kobe most of the time posts up on the 45 angles of the free-throw line.


The high-post you mean? :rofl:


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

sherako said:


> The high-post you mean? :rofl:





Yeh, but not in the middle, on the sides.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

If you need proof that Kobe has more than one way of scoring, watch the 81 point game, he had everything from 3 pointers, layups, dunks, fadeaways, isolations, anything imaginable he had going on, all from different spots too. The reason it seems that he gets them all from the 45 degree angle is because that's were Phil likes to have him initiate the offense from.


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> If you need proof that Kobe has more than one way of scoring, watch the 81 point game, he had everything from 3 pointers, layups, dunks, fadeaways, isolations, anything imaginable he had going on, all from different spots too. The reason it seems that he gets them all from the 45 degree angle is because that's were Phil likes to have him initiate the offense from.


I know kobe has more than one way of scoring, i am just saying this is his main move. IMO, most of his shots come from this move, that's all. But he is a heck of a shooter, unfortunately, he's starting to count on his shot a lot more than his drive.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

thug_immortal8 said:


> If you need proof that Kobe has more than one way of scoring, watch the 81 point game, he had everything from 3 pointers, layups, dunks, fadeaways, isolations, anything imaginable he had going on, all from different spots too. The reason it seems that he gets them all from the 45 degree angle is because that's were Phil likes to have him initiate the offense from.


He was hot, its not as if thats how he shoots every single game. No one will top the 81 point performance but there are a bunch of guards in this league that once they get hot, there is virtually no one that can stop them from putting the ball in the hole.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Pierce is poor man's Kobe. He can do all that Kobe does, but can't do it at the same level. It's like saying what can Jordan do that Kobe couldn't? Nothing, but he did everything at a higher level (except long range shooting and ball handling, imo), making him the better player. 

Also, Phil Jackson isn't the only one who says Kobe is a really smart player. I recall a few others who have said Kobe is ahead of everyone else mentally as well as physically, Steve Kerr, Doug Collins and Kenny Smith come to mind. Plus Phil calling Kobe the smartest player he has coached is really just tooting his own horn, because Kobe is where he is mentally because of Phil. Phil was the reason Jordan was such a smart player, and is now the reason Kobe is one of the greats intelligent players. Phil's guidance of players mentally, and especially his superstars, is probably his greatest attribute as a coach.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Pierce is poor man's Kobe. He can do all that Kobe does, but can't do it at the same level. It's like saying what can Jordan do that Kobe couldn't? Nothing, but he did everything at a higher level (except long range shooting and ball handling, imo), making him the better player.
> 
> Also, Phil Jackson isn't the only one who says Kobe is a really smart player. I recall a few others who have said Kobe is ahead of everyone else mentally as well as physically, Steve Kerr, Doug Collins and Kenny Smith come to mind. Plus Phil calling Kobe the smartest player he has coached is really just tooting his own horn, because Kobe is where he is mentally because of Phil. Phil was the reason Jordan was such a smart player, and is now the reason Kobe is one of the greats intelligent players. Phil's guidance of players mentally, and especially his superstars, is probably his greatest attribute as a coach.


I'll just ask you this question if Pierce or any other elite guard for that matter were to shoot the ball 27 or so times a game, would they average 30 a game. And if Pierce were to average 30 a game would he be on Kobe's level cause he definitely has him beat in the rebounding and assists part


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Hbwoy said:


> I'll just ask you this question if Pierce or any other elite guard for that matter were to shoot the ball 27 or so times a game, would they average 30 a game. And if Pierce were to average 30 a game would he be on Kobe's level cause he definitely has him beat in the rebounding and assists part


Maybe, but would his team be in the playoff picture, Kobe's got his team in, in the west. As well if Pierce were to start shooting more, his assists would go down since he's wasting more possesions on himself instead of dishing it off, and he wouldn't be in rebouding possesion.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Maybe, but would his team be in the playoff picture, Kobe's got his team in, in the west. As well if Pierce were to start shooting more, his assists would go down since he's wasting more possesions on himself instead of dishing it off, and he wouldn't be in rebouding possesion.


Good and valid points.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> I'll just ask you this question if Pierce or any other elite guard for that matter were to shoot the ball 27 or so times a game, would they average 30 a game. And if Pierce were to average 30 a game would he be on Kobe's level cause he definitely has him beat in the rebounding and assists part


You have to be well conditioned to shoot that many times per game, and have to be well skilled in getting shots you can make. Most people don't understand that you can't just do some mathematics and say that a player will double his production if he doubles his shots, because doubling your shots requires shooting more frequently, and that would require shooting shots you're probably not comfortable taking, since the shots you are comfortable taking are the ones you already take. Plus the whole fatigue factor.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> You have to be well conditioned to shoot that many times per game, and have to be well skilled in getting shots you can make. Most people don't understand that you can't just do some mathematics and say that a player will double his production if he doubles his shots, because doubling your shots requires shooting more frequently, and that would require shooting shots you're probably not comfortable taking, since the shots you are comfortable taking are the ones you already take. Plus the whole fatigue factor.


Like I said in the other post its all hypothetical cause we both dont know what can or what cant in those situations. But thats why there are things called go to moves, if Kobe had a strong post up game his scoring efficiency would even be better because its a high percentage shot and even when failed it usually results in a foul. Plus with a post up move, you are not expanding as much energy as running of screens and launching jumpers left and right, or running into the lane constantly being beat up by stronger guys. Guys like Pierce have that aspect of the game, if he were to take those kind of shots he wouldnt be expanding so much energy


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

*


Sir Patchwork said:



You have to be well conditioned to shoot that many times per game, and have to be well skilled in getting shots you can make. Most people don't understand that you can't just do some mathematics and say that a player will double his production if he doubles his shots, because doubling your shots requires shooting more frequently, and that would require shooting shots you're probably not comfortable taking, since the shots you are comfortable taking are the ones you already take. Plus the whole fatigue factor.

Click to expand...

*I was going to post this, but you beat me to it, OUTSTANDING post...This should be a sticky.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> Like I said in the other post its all hypothetical cause we both dont know what can or what cant in those situations. But thats why there are things called go to moves, if Kobe had a strong post up game his scoring efficiency would even be better because its a high percentage shot and even when failed it usually results in a foul. Plus with a post up move, you are not expanding as much energy as running of screens and launching jumpers left and right, or running into the lane constantly being beat up by stronger guys. Guys like Pierce have that aspect of the game, if he were to take those kind of shots he wouldnt be expanding so much energy


Kobe runs the triangle offense from the post, I don't know why you think he has no post game. 

And if it's all hypothetical because we don't know what could happen, then I guess we can put Manu Ginobili at the same level with Paul Pierce by the same logic? Better efficiency scoring, but doesn't take as many shots so doesn't score as much.


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## spiraling (Feb 16, 2003)

skill wise pierce is at the same level as kobe. What pierce lack of is the killer instint Kobe have. Kobe can flat out take over the game, the guy is freaking amazing. Kobe can turn it up at any given time.


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

ball handling - kobe by alot
drawing fouls - peirce
quickness - kobe by alot
athletisism - kobe and not even close
finishing - kobe
creativity - kobe
jump shot - kobe
defense - kobe

i cant believe some said wht can kobe do that peirce cant??!?!?!

kobe is the most talented player in the league, and peirce is just an above average talent we see every generation of basketball.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Here's a perfect quote by none other than Sir Charles himself:
> "Also my view on it is this, if Phil Jackson says that Kobe is one of the smartest players he's ever coached then I will beleive that over what some kid on a message board perceives to be the truth. I mean Kobe's mastered the triangle offense which is arguably the most complicated offense in basketball. All his teamates have always said he was smart as well.


Over those some kids I see here are all smarter than yourself? If they arent smart enough to post? Can u just unregister and leave this site entirely?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Kobe runs the triangle offense from the post, I don't know why you think he has no post game.
> 
> And if it's all hypothetical because we don't know what could happen, then I guess we can put Manu Ginobili at the same level with Paul Pierce by the same logic? Better efficiency scoring, but doesn't take as many shots so doesn't score as much.


Kobe is still more of a face up player, Paul Pierce is a better post up player. Its really that simple. You can think whatever you want regarding Manu though.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> Kobe is still more of a face up player, Paul Pierce is a better post up player. Its really that simple. You can think whatever you want regarding Manu though.


Piece is a face up player too. The players who actually score with their back to the basket in today's game is limited to about 5 players. Most post players are face up players. 

And my point about Manu was to prove what you're doing with Pierce. You're saying Pierce, if allowed to take as many shots as Kobe, would score as many, based on stats that show FGM-FGA per game. By that logic, Ginobili could score as much as Pierce, if allowed to take more shots. 

Hell, why stop there. Ginobili makes 4.5 out of 10 attempts. If he could take 30 shots, he would make 13.5 out of 30 shots. That would be atleast 30 points, plus 4-5 free throws per game. There is your 35 points per game. 

Ginobili > Kobe if given the chance. 

See how quickly that logic looks real dumb.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Hello? Eighty-****ing-one.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Piece is a face up player too. The players who actually score with their back to the basket in today's game is limited to about 5 players. Most post players are face up players.
> 
> And my point about Manu was to prove what you're doing with Pierce. You're saying Pierce, if allowed to take as many shots as Kobe, would score as many, based on stats that show FGM-FGA per game. By that logic, Ginobili could score as much as Pierce, if allowed to take more shots.
> 
> ...


Actually I asked if Pierce was allowed to take 27 shots, wouldnt his points per game go up. AI and Bron are averaging 30 arent they, so saying Pierce can average 30 isnt too far out.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Air Fly said:


> What does Kobe do offensively that Pierce cant?


Score 35 PPG?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> Actually I asked if Pierce was allowed to take 27 shots, wouldnt his points per game go up. AI and Bron are averaging 30 arent they, so saying Pierce can average 30 isnt too far out.


Pierce could average 30 if he took more shots, I agree, just like Kobe could average 40 if he took more shots. As much as Kobe shoots, he could easily take more, he is a guy who has no problem finding a shot he can make. Paul Pierce would struggle more to shoot 27 shots than Kobe would to shoot 35 shots, imo.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Paul Pierce is the greatest player of all-time. If you think otherwise you are a homer.

He also looks like a fat chipmonk.

And I don't think I'm alone in saying, "I can see why a dude would want to sometimes stab Paul Pierce in the face multiple times". He's kinda lame.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

you're slightly _off_


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think I may have misspelled Chipmonk. Chipmunk. Hmmm. Strange word.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> And I don't think I'm alone in saying, "I can see why a dude would want to sometimes stab Paul Pierce in the face multiple times". He's kinda lame.



that was a low blow dude. you know the dude was stabbed in the back literally a while ago.


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant are pretty equal right now, both are great players trying to carry lousy teams.


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

Shadyballa8D13 said:


> Score 35 PPG?


And on how many more shots a game?


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

Kitty said:


> Elaborate a little bit more on that statement Notic, gifted in what way before I'll respond.



Ok. What I mean is that he doesn't have to try to score 20 ppg. He doesn't take care of his body in the off-season, and he's still arguably the most athletic player in the L. He has absolutely no toughness, and yet he can turn it on and be the most aggressive player in any given game. I remember going to Raptor games when I was younger, and this guy was just absolutly incredible, it can't really be described how good he would be if he had the mental toughness and the work ethic of a kobe or jordan. 

And I don't even like Vince Carter, but I know how gifted he is, athletically and otherwise.


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## K-Dub (Jun 26, 2005)

Paul Pierce is Kobe without the freakish atleticism.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> I think I may have misspelled Chipmonk. Chipmunk. Hmmm. Strange word.


 no, damn the word....you're just _off_ in general


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

What I dont get is people putting Kobe on this untouchable pedestal, when there are about 4 or 5 guys with similar skillsets and basically can do every thing he does on the offensive end


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> What I dont get is people putting Kobe on this untouchable pedestal, when there are about 4 or 5 guys with similar skillsets and basically can do every thing he does on the offensive end


Those 4 or 5 guys will never come close to scoring 81 points in 41 minutes on 61% shooting to spark a 35 point turnaround to win a game. Those guys will never score 60 points in three quarters of play (Kobe did it twice, 56 points and 61 points), but get taken out because it's a blowout. Kobe could realistically have two or three 80 point games by now. Think about that. He could realistically have 3 of the top 5 scoring games of all-time. 

Iverson looked like he was dead after his 60 point performance, that was his limit. Pierce's career high is 50 points, and it took him 54 minutes to do it. Carter's career high is 51 points. Wade doesn't have a potent enough three point shot, he is just really consistent as a scorer. And these guys with the exception of Wade have spent a lot more time on bad teams than Kobe, so they should have just as big of a green light if they were as good at scoring as Kobe is, but they're not. 

A healthy Tracy McGrady is the only one in today's game who can score at a somewhat comparable level. Everyone else is not that close. If you want to talk all around offensive game, that's a different story. LeBron has the clear edge from a playmaking standpoint, and guys like Pierce, Kobe, Wade and so on are fighting for 2nd place behind him.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

K-Dub said:


> Paul Pierce is Kobe without the freakish atleticism.


Paul Pierce is a great athlete, but his gifts lay in his strength on the block and on the perimeter. So this limits him in a comparison with Kobe, since basketball at its finest is a game of quickness.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Sigh* I dont know how many times I have to repeat this, no one well maybe not soon will ever top the 81 point performance. But just because Kobe scored 81 doesnt mean there arent guys that have the same offensive skill set and even better. Vince, Tmac and PP have pretty comparable offensive arsenals to Kobe.


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## Kirk64 (Oct 19, 2005)

DiceMoney said:


> Am not about the stat sheet. But Pierce seems to have this understanding of the game. I really think the most important part of the game is mental. I don't know, Paul seems like he is getting there. Kobe is every once a blue moon type of deal. I think Paul might be the smarter player. Kobe more gifted, but Pierce just getting to understand. Pierce today is my vote. He is understanding what Duncan when trough.


*****, please.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

DuMa said:


> that was a low blow dude. you know the dude was stabbed in the back literally a while ago.


I thought it was in the face. That's why I said in the face.

People don't just stab other people in the face. You have to generally 8 times out of 10, bring that situation upon yourself. And Paul Pierce seems like the kind of guy that would inspire that kind of reaction. He's kind of annoying.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> I thought it was in the face. That's why I said in the face.
> 
> People don't just stab other people in the face. You have to generally 8 times out of 10, bring that situation upon yourself. And Paul Pierce seems like the kind of guy that would inspire that kind of reaction. He's kind of annoying.


Paul P does seem pretty cocky. People just dont go stabbing someone for no reason at all, nine times for that matter too.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

and in all seriousness. Pierce needed 2 overtimes to set his career high of over 50 points. He's not nearly the scorer that Kobe is. He's too lazy to get off enough shots to get as many points as Kobe does. Even if you gave him a green light. Pierce just loves to stand with the ball, no dribble, and just hold the ball as the clock goes down.

It's probably fair to say that Pierce is on the same tier that Michael Finley was on in his prime. Which is to say he's really underrrated, but he's still not as good as the top guys at his spot.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> Sigh* I dont know how many times I have to repeat this, no one well maybe not soon will ever top the 81 point performance. But just because Kobe scored 81 doesnt mean there arent guys that have the same offensive skill set and even better. Vince, Tmac and PP have pretty comparable offensive arsenals to Kobe.


Manu Ginobili has a comparable offensive arsenal to Dwyane Wade, and Dwyane Wade has a comparable offensive arsenal to Michael Jordan. Michael Redd has a comparable offensive arsenal to Ray Allen. Joe Johnson has a comparable offensive arsenal to Paul Pierce. Luke Ridnour has a comparable offensive arsenal to Steve Nash. 

Doesn't mean a thing. Doesn't matter if you can do everything another player can, if you're only doing it half as well as that player does.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Manu Ginobili has a comparable offensive arsenal to Dwyane Wade, and Dwyane Wade has a comparable offensive arsenal to Michael Jordan. Michael Redd has a comparable offensive arsenal to Ray Allen. Joe Johnson has a comparable offensive arsenal to Paul Pierce. Luke Ridnour has a comparable offensive arsenal to Steve Nash.
> 
> Doesn't mean a thing. Doesn't matter if you can do everything another player can, if you're only doing it half as well as that player does.


So let me get this straight, because Kobe has a higher ppg that makes him the better player.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> So let me get this straight, because Kobe has a higher ppg that makes him the better player.


No. Kobe Bryant has a better efficiency rating, a better PER rating, is a better defender, draws more attention from opposing defenses and leads a better team in a better conference. There really isn't any argument for Pierce my friend, sorry.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> No. Kobe Bryant has a better efficiency rating, a better PER rating, is a better defender, draws more attention from opposing defenses and leads a better team in a better conference. There really isn't any argument for Pierce my friend, sorry.


Like I said before defense in my opinion is the biggest difference. For all of Kobe's greatness his team is just a game over .500 and really after SA, Dallas and the Suns the West is a crapshoot. Doesnt Kobe's higher PPG affect per and efficiency rating.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

VC_15 said:


> is it just me or most of Kobe's points come from fadeways on sides of the free-throw line? I think Paul Pierce is more versatile offensively, but kobe plays better D, that's why Kobe edges pierce.


it's just you... i was talking with a king fan who dislikes Kobe yesterday and we were saying how Kobe seems to score more ways than any great scorer we've seen... he has so many shots and is so versatile...

on this subject, i used to always think Paul Pierce was tight and hes played great recentely but it seems to me like he had a long time where he wasnt doing a whole bunch of anything...


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> I thought it was in the face. That's why I said in the face.
> 
> People don't just stab other people in the face. You have to generally 8 times out of 10, bring that situation upon yourself. And Paul Pierce seems like the kind of guy that would inspire that kind of reaction. He's kind of annoying.


I agree. haha :biggrin:


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I hate to defend Pierce in this situation as I do think Kobe Bryant is a superior player.



futuristxen said:


> and in all seriousness. Pierce needed 2 overtimes to set his career high of over 50 points.


True, but let's consider that he had 42 points at the end of regulation. Also, in December of '01, Pierce scored 48 points - *46 of them in the second-half and overtime*.



> He's not nearly the scorer that Kobe is.


Yes, but he is more efficient than Kobe. Jermain Taylor is no Aaron Pryor, but he's still very good in his own regard (a boxing reference).



> He's too lazy to get off enough shots to get as many points as Kobe does. Even if you gave him a green light. Pierce just loves to stand with the ball, no dribble, and just hold the ball as the clock goes down.


Unlike Kobe, Pierce actually has players on the Celtics that can hit wide-open jump shots. He has no reason to shoot over 25 field-goal attempts per game when he can dribble-penetrate and draw three defenders leaving a deadly shooter like Delonte West open for a easy three-pointer.



> It's probably fair to say that Pierce is on the same tier that Michael Finley was on in his prime. Which is to say he's really underrrated, but he's still not as good as the top guys at his spot.


Pierce is in the top four in his position, a position that is the best in all of contemporary basketball with the decline in big man and point guards. I would say that he is one of "the top guys at his spot," making it illogical to state that he's not as "good" as them. Also, Michael Finley never averged 27.2 points per game (his high was 22.6) shooting a PSA of 1.176 (1.078) with a PER of 24.7 (19.3). Pierce, this season, is better than Michael Finley's career highs throughout this career.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> and in all seriousness. Pierce needed 2 overtimes to set his career high of over 50 points. He's not nearly the scorer that Kobe is. He's too lazy to get off enough shots to get as many points as Kobe does. Even if you gave him a green light. Pierce just loves to stand with the ball, no dribble, and just hold the ball as the clock goes down.
> 
> It's probably fair to say that Pierce is on the same tier that Michael Finley was on in his prime. Which is to say he's really underrrated, but he's still not as good as the top guys at his spot.


Great Post. I'd give you a rep, but it won't let me homie.


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## DiceMoney (Mar 4, 2006)

The way this arguement when to who ballhogs the most. A.I is better than Kobe.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Premier said:


> I hate to defend Pierce in this situation as I do think Kobe Bryant is a superior player.
> 
> 
> True, but let's consider that he had 42 points at the end of regulation. Also, in December of '01, Pierce scored 48 points - *46 of them in the second-half and overtime*.
> ...



I don't disagree with anything you've said here. But I don't think any of it invalidates my claims either, if that makes sense. This is a good clarification for why I think Paul Pierce is a terrific player in his own right.


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## DEEETROIT BASKETBALL! (Jan 1, 2006)

Kobe is better. I dont see Paul Pierce ever being as good, but you never know.


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