# The conclusive Scott Skiles as coach thread



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

A lot of people have dredged up old quotes by and about Scott Skiles. None of it is relevent.

Forget about what the players said about Pete Myers. It was simply a nice thing for them to do, to say nice things about a guy with something like 10 years service to the team. And about a guy who's likely on his way out. Their friend.

Skiles was 34 years old when he was head coach the first time. Now he's 39. 

When he was 34, he was just about the same age as some of his players. At 39, only Pippen (38) is near his age.

Yeah, I think age has a lot to do with things. First, when you're not much older than the team you coach, you're looked at more as a peer than as an authority figure. Second, 5 years is a lot of time to mature, especially if you've had the stick in your hands (airplane metaphor) and you've had time to reflect upon what you did. Third, the difference in maturity between 34 and 39 is significant.

This is a clean slate for both him and the players. While there's pressure to win some ballgames, the pressure to make the playoffs is virtually off, due to the team's record and that he's taking over in the middle of a season.

We have to give the guy a chance to make his mark with this team. He sounds like an open-minded guy. He's not prejudged the players like we have. He's got no <I>a priori</I> notions about who can contribute and who cannot. 

I assume he gets along with EVERY player. Until proven otherwise. I assume the players get along with him. Until proven otherwise.

I assume that all my assumptions to date are still true. This is a team that doesn't have the talent to be as competitive as management has led us to believe all along. 

At this point, getting the team to play with some passion and together as a team has to be the first objective.

Curry is soft. he's going to be soft for any coach. He's going to develop over the next 3 or 4 years into something much better. It is foolish to lose patience with him. It is also foolish to rely upon him now to be the leader of this team, including as a scorer (his only real strength).

Chandler is more developed than Curry. He's got a long way to go, though. And he's still going to have a long way to go with Skiles as the coach.

Rose is still our best player. He hasn't played like it, and this is obvious. He's still our best player with Skiles as the coach. Skiles' biggest task is to convince Rose to be our best player, instead of the shadow of himself that's been on the court for us this season.

Crawford has the potential to be a wonderful player. He hasn't done it on the court when it matters. He's got a lot of developing to do, to become a good defender and to use his abilities to make all his teammates better. With Skiles as the coach, he's still the same player. There's no magic wand Skiles can wave to make him the player that some of us see him as already.

Fizer still is recovering from his knee surgery. Skiles isn't a medical miracle worker. Fizer is still going to be recovering from his surgery with Skiles as coach.

Marshall is still our 2nd best player. As nice a pickup as he's been for us, he's still a #4 pick who's never achieved the level a #4 pick should. That's not going to change with Skiles.

The offensive scheme the Bulls use is all the Bulls know. Whether Skiles can quickly install some new offense and have a bunch of guys with little experience learning from playbooks pick it up and run with it is doubtful. It's going to take time, and the Bulls are going to lose during that time.

The defensive scheme the Bulls use is all the Bulls know. We've added as good a defensive coach in Bach as possible, and it sure looks like we've taken giant steps backwards in many respects. We do play a wicked zone D at times, but our transition defense is as bad as any team I've ever seen. When we play our best offensive players, we have terrible D. When we play our best defensive players, we have terrible O. It sure makes sense to turn our best offensive players into good defenders. That's going to take time.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*the weird ideas on this board about skiles and his power to rid the team of players*

he has had a head coaching gig before 

but he wasn't nearly the my way or you are gone type coach people are saying he is 

who did he get rid of ?

jason kidd ...i doubt it 

cliff robinson ...i doubt it ...

these guys are known as hard workers and these were the main differences in the 2 teams he coached all the rest of the important players were still there,marion ,hardaway (who does have the occasional work ethic problems) gugliotta ...these guys survived the skiles era and none of thses 3 have the reputation the 2 who left do 

I think people are overdoing skiles' perceived impact he may shorten the rotation, use a more basic offense, and and have harder practices...but thats about it that people have a right to expect


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## DrJones (Nov 29, 2003)

OK, here is my take. I am a life-long Suns fan.

Scott will come in and get everyone on board and working their asses off on the defensive end. Well, everyone except maybe Jalen.  You will see your opponents points drop by probably down to around 91 or 92 ppg, from 101. Your offense will be very disciplined. It might take a while, but once your guys buy into his schemes and follow him, you will start winning more games on a regular basis. And Scott will probably play in the practices and teach some guys a thing or two.

Then, you will hear of ramblings among the players about how hard he is. After a while it gets old. Especially for the rookies and young guys, because some of the things he says are pretty harsh. You could have Tyson go out and get 8 block, 15 boards, and 20 points. Then, if you lose, Scott would say in the press that he only shot 48% and had 3 TOs. There are quotes of him saying that if you don't hit every shot you take, and make any TOs, you could have done more for your team... and that is the sugar coated version. When guys are busting their ***, and playing really well, he will probably come down hard on them and tell them to play harder and better. And for a while, this works. But it does get old, and eventually (maybe 3 years from now) he will be let go.

Of course, almost all coaches will be let go after a few years with a team. That is the cycle, but when this coach leaves, I don't think any of the players will be sad to see him go. A few years down the line, they will get over any problems they had with him, and won't harbor any ill wills. Hell, even Shawn Marion said he was a great coach the other day. But Shawn wasn't upset to see him go.

When he played, he was a perfectionist. He is the same way when he coaches. And he also seems to micromanage everyone. I think maybe Scottie might have the most problem with that off the bat.

So, that probably could have been better put together or worded, but that is how the thoughts flowed as I was typing.

If you have any specific questions, go ahead and ask.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Why don't you think he has ever done the swoop over thing ?

Y'know.. grow it long on one side and swoop it over


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm just happy the Triangle O is dead and buried.

Sure we weren't running it much anymore... but the spacing, the plodding on the top of the key, the lack of movement, the general confusion amongst young players, and the lack of good 'bailout' guys really hurt our chances of ever running it effectively. There are no superstars on this team, so that offense ain't working.

Here's hoping Skiles pulls a Hubie Brown and simplifies the playbook a bit. Give the kids something to work around, instill some confidence, reward players who bust their tails.


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## SDC (Nov 29, 2003)

That's an unfair and one-sided assessment, dr. jones. 

This comes from another die-hard Suns fan.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Why don't you think he has ever done the swoop over thing ?
> 
> Y'know.. grow it long on one side and swoop it over


I'd prefer to see him grow his eyebrows really long and comb them back.


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## SDC (Nov 29, 2003)

*Skiles: Slate's clean (New Bulls coach promises fresh start for players)*

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lsmain,1,2517111.story?coll=cs-home-headlines


Skiles: Slate's clean
New Bulls coach promises fresh start for players


By K.C. Johnson
Tribune staff reporter

November 28, 2003, 10:20 PM CST


On his first day as the 15th coach in Bulls franchise history, Scott Skiles didn't do as much coaching as cajoling.

Leading a brief team meeting before Friday's practice at the Berto Center, Skiles drew a line down the middle of a greaseboard. On one side he wrote the words "lazy" and "selfish." On the other he wrote "hard-nosed" and "disciplinarian."

Then Skiles erased them all.

His point was simple: It's time to wipe the slate clean.

Any preconceived opinions about players, the "lazy" ones, are gone. And whatever horror stories players had heard about Skiles' reputation as a strict taskmaster should be too.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Per the above article/link.



> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> This is a clean slate for both him and the players. While there's pressure to win some ballgames, the pressure to make the playoffs is virtually off, due to the team's record and that he's taking over in the middle of a season.
> 
> We have to give the guy a chance to make his mark with this team. He sounds like an open-minded guy. He's not prejudged the players like we have. He's got no <I>a priori</I> notions about who can contribute and who cannot.
> ...


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## DrJones (Nov 29, 2003)

> That's an unfair and one-sided assessment, dr. jones.


Feel free to offer up another side. And can you tell me what is unfair about it?


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

I thought that was a very helpful post DJ.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

thank you for the perspective DrJ.

if you say about skiles is true, and he is a perfectionist, then hopefully he sat around thinking about what he could have done better so the next time he coaches it'll be closer to perfect. 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sside,1,4417655.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines



> "He told the team that he was sorry for his actions toward me in Phoenix," Blount said after practice. "After he said that, there's nothing bad I can say."


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## SDC (Nov 29, 2003)

> Feel free to offer up another side. And can you tell me what is unfair about it?


Okay Dr. Jones. 



> You could have Tyson go out and get 8 block, 15 boards, and 20 points. Then, if you lose, Scott would say in the press that he only shot 48% and had 3 TOs. There are quotes of him saying that if you don't hit every shot you take, and make any TOs, you could have done more for your team...


At first glance, I thought this was a little exaggerated, but you probably know more about the ins and outs of the suns during the 1999-2001 seasons more than I am.

I hope he learned some lessons while coaching in PHX so that he won't make the same mistakes twice. I have a feeling his stay here will be longer than 3 years and the bulls will make the playoffs this year.



> I don't think any of the players will be sad to see him go.


I remember Magic Johnson and his teammates not feeling all that upset when Pat Riley left the lakers back in 1990 too. Same thing happened when Rick Carlisle, Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello left Detroit, NY and Atlanta respectively. But they're all winners and I prefer them over a player's coach like Phil Jackson or Isiah Thomas or Frank Johnson.

anyway, here's more on skiles from blount.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=3795492



> But during Skiles' first day on the job, this much is clear about the new head coach - he's not afraid to be honest.
> 
> "He said that he's been following us and he's seen our style of play and that we're lazy," veteran forward Corie Blount said Friday of the team's first meeting with Skiles.
> 
> "And I think he was right. I'm not going to say me personally or this person was doing it. But as a team, as a group, we weren't playing hard. And I think that's what he's come to do is bring that out of us."


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Am I the only one a bit disconserted that he wiped "lazy" of the slate to symbolize a fresh start and then called the team lazy?


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DrJones</b>!
> OK, here is my take. I am a life-long Suns fan.
> 
> Scott will come in and get everyone on board and working their asses off on the defensive end. Well, everyone except maybe Jalen.  You will see your opponents points drop by probably down to around 91 or 92 ppg, from 101. Your offense will be very disciplined. It might take a while, but once your guys buy into his schemes and follow him, you will start winning more games on a regular basis. And Scott will probably play in the practices and teach some guys a thing or two.
> ...


You took the words right out of my mouth concerning Mr. Skiles. :greatjob:


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## DrJones (Nov 29, 2003)

I read that article that quotes Blunt and talks about him wiping the slate clean. And maybe he has been thinking about what he did wrong, and trying to change it.

If he has gotten past his criticize-everyone-for-everything mentality, I think he can be a very effective coach.

And I wish him the best. Well, not the best, because I still can't forgive that punk Paxson for that shot in '93.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

So far, I like what I'm hearing from Mr. Skiles.

He sounds like a guy who has had a lot of time to think over and objectively critique the mistakes he's made. The biggest thing being held against him so far is that he took his disciplinarian/ taskmaster act too far, to the point where he alienated players, and eventually lost the team. Judging from his comments the past couple of days, it seems like he has had enough time to realize where he went wrong, and has appropriately readjusted and tweeked his approach and philosophy. 

So for the time being, count me as being optimistic about what he will be able to do for this team, and our chances to salvage what has been a disappointing season and still make a run for the playoffs.


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