# QRich dealt to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas!



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*Link*

Looks like Joe Johnson is going nowhere.

Thoughts?


----------



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Well if this is true, it looks like Amare Stoudemire is definitely staying at Center.

It also means the Knicks have even less size.


----------



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> Well if this is true, it looks like Amare Stoudemire is definitely staying at Center.
> 
> It also means the Knicks have even less size.


I think Kurt would play C....

PG: Steve Nash
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Shawn Marion
PF: Amare Stoudemire
C: Kurt Thomas

That is a sick starting lineup...gotta work on that bench though.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> Well if this is true, it looks like Amare Stoudemire is definitely staying at Center.
> 
> It also means the Knicks have even less size.


It also means they have another brick thrower.

Ballhog PG + Brick throwing SG + Brick Throwing SF + Undersized frontcrout= failure


----------



## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

What in the world is Isiah Thomas doing???Somebody please explain this


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

I'm in like shock right now. I wonder if we even plan to slide everyone down. And if not, who starts at SF?


I also feel bad for Q. Last yr, when he signed he really wanted to be a Sun. He wasn't that bad though. But we needed size. Now he's going off to a place with worst direction than the Clippers.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Isiah must not be a Knicks fan....


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Moesha is coming to Harlem.

On a sidenote the starting perimeter looks atrocious.

PG - Stephon Marbury
SG - Jamal Crawford
SF - Quentin Richardson

Marbury has to play with two of the lowest BBall IQ players in the league now, who have no concept of what a good shot is. Why oh why Isiah, must you be taken by this fool's gold? Q-Rich and Crawford, oh my.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

they better keep JJ. Q was a good outside threat (before the playoffs) I am kinda shocked by this. I thought Q was very essential to that team's run this year. He kinda sucked a little in the playoffs but i thought it was nerves due to his first year in the playoffs. he had room for improvement. I thought he deserved another chance. anyway, suns did need to improve on the low block, i guess you had to trade away something and it couldnt be amare, nash, jj or marion.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

looks like a bad trade for both teams to me.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

DuMa said:


> they better keep JJ. Q was a good outside threat (before the playoffs) I am kinda shocked by this. I thought Q was very essential to that team's run this year. He kinda sucked a little in the playoffs but i thought it was nerves due to his first year in the playoffs. he had room for improvement. I thought he deserved another chance. anyway, suns did need to improve on the low block, i guess you had to trade away something and it couldnt be amare, nash, jj or marion.


Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. How he was key for us in the regular season and he helped get us in a position. Altho w/o showing up in the playoffs, we still managed against the Grizz and Mavs. Q isn't as bad overall as people make him out to be. He took 3's and occasionally drove it to the hoop. And yeah, I agree he had chance to get better. 


I'm shocked as well. Knicks keep baffling me on what they're doing though.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The Knick depth chart after this trade:

PG - Stephon Marbury/Jamal Crawford
SG - Quentin Richardson/Penny Hardaway (expiring), Allen Houston
SF - Tim Thomas (expiring)/Trevor Ariza
PF - Michael Sweetney/Maurice Taylor/Jerome Williams
C - Malik Rose

Extras: No. 8 pick, No. 30 pick, No. 54 pick, MLE, LLE


----------



## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

The Suns' attempt to have a more traditional structure is going to make them lose their edge. The best thing they had going were the constant mismatches, but now other teams centers will have someone to guard, a 4 won't be trying to keep up with Marion on the perimeter and in transition, and they won't have 4 3 point shooters kicking it around the outside. 

As for the Knicks, their bigs arn't going to get 10 shots a game, and they run 6'2", 6'5", and 6'5" in the backcourt. How is Q gonna do guarding player 5 and 6 inches taller? 

No good for either team, IMO


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> looks like a bad trade for both teams to me.


I agree but I am happy the Suns decided to invest in an undersized PF/C over 30...it should knock them back a notch or two.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

its more than a just a joke when people say...."Isiah is building championships.....for other teams"....their tallest player will 6'7..barely..

as for the Suns...gotta keep JJ...but how much is Kurt Thomas making


----------



## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

I think the Knicks are about to draft Bynum, I've been predicting this for a while now. It may actually happen now.


----------



## BrettNYK (Jul 15, 2004)

Kunlun said:


> I think the Knicks are about to draft Bynum, I've been predicting this for a while now. It may actually happen now.


Hey! I said that, too! Great minds think alike, I guess.


----------



## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

Kurt Thomas? Old and beat down. How is he gonna run??


----------



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

tone wone said:


> as for the Suns...gotta keep JJ...but how much is Kurt Thomas making


23 million over the next 3 years.....


----------



## BrettNYK (Jul 15, 2004)

sherwin said:


> Kurt Thomas? Old and beat down. How is he gonna run??


DEFENSE!


----------



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

Kunlun said:


> I think the Knicks are about to draft Bynum, I've been predicting this for a while now. It may actually happen now.


I think they are drafting Frye at 8...when would they draft Bynum? At 8?


----------



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

sherwin said:


> Kurt Thomas? Old and beat down. How is he gonna run??


Kurt Thomas had a very good season last year...maybe he still has a little left in the tank....Phoenix isn't a good fit for him though, IMO.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2339654&postcount=26



> Why would anyone trade for Q?
> 
> Oh wait. The Knicks...haha.


I ****ing said this just ****ing yesterday.
Isiah Thomas is a ****tard idgit. That's my kneejerk reaction.
My follow up is, what the ****?


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

sherwin said:


> Kurt Thomas? Old and beat down. How is he gonna run??


He may not even start. Which isn't what is important for the Suns anyway. What was important was getting someone who could cut into Steven Hunter's minutes off the bench. 

Remember Phoenix was playing 7 guys for the most part. Basically it's the same deal. 

Amare, Nash, JJ, Marion, Jim Jackson, Barbosa (or traded for someone), Hunter and now Kurt Thomas and No. 21st pick added to their team.

The Suns may have become a deeper team (9 man rotation) in the process. They got better in the front court no doubt. Does Nash duplicate this season though?


----------



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

It looks like Isiah Thomas's coaching skills translate to his GM skills.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2339654&postcount=26
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL, first thing I thought when I heard this trade is how you said it yesterday. Who's going where next Nostradamus?


----------



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Camby goes to Denver - Up and coming team, Nazr to S.A. - In the championship, Spre to Minn - Conf. finals, I guess they really are building championships for others. 

Funny how Det. and S.A. are in the championship and have tall players: Campbell, Nesterovic, Darko, that they don't even need yet the Knicks are running a midget team.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

HKF said:


> He may not even start. Which isn't what is important for the Suns anyway. What was important was getting someone who could cut into Steven Hunter's minutes off the bench.
> 
> Remember Phoenix was playing 7 guys for the most part. Basically it's the same deal.
> 
> ...


Yep, also we may not even bring Hunter back. He wants full MLE, and we only wanna give him part of it. I'd rather us not resign him at all and get someone else. He plays all right defense but too uncoordinated around the hoop and can't catch the passes well. We're also looking for a back up PG to go along with the 21st pick and 3rd to last pick in the 2nd rd. I doubt we try and get a young one though.

As for Nash doing this again. I don't see why not next yr but who knows? I bet 99% of the people say no though.


----------



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Hunter asking for a raise ?? That is a joke. It will only be worse when some sucker gives it to him. Is this Foyle all over again ??


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

LA68 said:


> Hunter asking for a raise ?? That is a joke. It will only be worse when some sucker gives it to him. Is this Foyle all over again ??


Isiah Thomas will find a way to give him more than the MLE.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

LA68 said:


> Hunter asking for a raise ?? That is a joke. It will only be worse when some sucker gives it to him. Is this Foyle all over again ??



yep, he's opting out and he and his agent said they wanted full MLE. We better not give it to him or I swear...


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

maKINGSofgreatness said:


> The Suns' attempt to have a more traditional structure is going to make them lose their edge. The best thing they had going were the constant mismatches, but now other teams centers will have someone to guard, a 4 won't be trying to keep up with Marion on the perimeter and in transition, and they won't have 4 3 point shooters kicking it around the outside.


They'll be better better built for the playoffs. It doesn't solve every problem they have of course, they still need depth. They can still play Nash, JJ, JJ, Marion, Amare whenever they want to...they just have another option now on defense down low. They'll still have 4 3-point shooters in that case, and would otherwise have three great 3-point shooters on the break...which is still more than most have. I don't think this trade hurts the Suns because they weren't going to win it all with what they had. Dalembert and those guys are not only unproven when it comes to consistency but they would have cost the Suns too much in return. Sure, they might not score 110 this season, but they probably will give up a couple less points per game off the opponents offensive rebounding alone. When it comes time for San Antonio vs Phoenix next year, I think Suns fans will be glad they made this trade.

I see no way that the Suns pay Steven the MLE.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

When you consider for the Suns that the trade is really, Q for Kurt Thomas and Joe Johnson, it's easier to see that they got what they wanted.

Q is garbage folks. He was just a chucker for phoenix, and with the money they were dumping to him, he needed to do much more.

Now he's Isiah's garbage.

Isiah is putting together a very athletic team of guys who don't really know how to play team basketball.

If he brings in a brilliant coach to teach them...then things could be interesting. But I doubt that happens. This may be the trade that gets Zeke fired from New York. He better have a good draft, is all I can say.


----------



## bdw0617 (Apr 4, 2003)

*Q is garbage folks. He was just a chucker for phoenix, and with the money they were dumping to him, he needed to do much more.*


thank you! I thought I was the only person who saw this.


Don't be suprised if Marion is next.

However, now that Q is gone, if they want Marion can now play his natural position, the small forward.


----------



## Vermillion (Mar 23, 2004)

Good trade. Helps my Sixers in the Atlantic division, that's for sure. 

Damn Isiah, trade for a big who isn't an undersized, jeez.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Marion was not going anywhere and isn't going anywhere. That was just speculation by every fan other than us cuz of *one* bad series. Before everything is great. He's too important to us in terms of high energy and defense. 2nd player ever to be top 5 in steals and rebounds to go along with 20/10. He does what he needs to do. We're not as good as we are or can be w/o him. As I said in the other thread. If he was leaving, we would've traded him and not Q and got a lot better from somewhere else. Trading Marion now doesn't make sense.

And people who think we may slip a bit we'll see about that. But this opens the game up more for Joe Johnson, by not having Q there. Not as many guys looking to score.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Q is a chucker? 

That was his freaking job on the Suns...hit threes. He did it at a historical level. It is early in the summer so I know the Suns are not done but it seems like people really criticize a player that played his role to perfection.

I think the Suns figured they will be more able to get perimeter help in this draft (Garcia, Hodge, Winston,McCants) then anyone who can help them on the blocks.


----------



## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

I'm angry right now, I would have really liked if Q would've stayed...


----------



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

How is it a bad trade? WIth the age limit in the draft, whos a big pick next year?

We traded, if its true, an aging power forward at 32 whos sign till 2006 for a young swingman which we needed, Allan Houston ain't coming back. If you look at the roster, we have no guards besides Marbury and Crawford(Jermaine Jackson, should I laugh if you mention him). Now we can use the 3 guard rotation IT wanted to have when he brought crawford in, a guard not doing well, take him out and bring in the other one, highly competitive like the pistons had with dumars, thomas and vinnie johnson. Now the draft and free agency can be used strictly for bigs because we would have taken a guard in the draft.


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

I hate you Isiah Thomas. But apparently not as much as you hate the Knicks.

Great trade for Phoenix, not sure about KT's stamina in D'Antoni's system.

Oh, the Suns are not giving Joe Johnson a max contract. Considering Q really didn't cut into JJ's playing time, I don't see why this means JJ is staying in Phoenix.


----------



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

I mean are you serious? HOW IS THIS A BAD TRADE FOR THE KNICKS?? Kurt Thomas has virtually NO POST GAME! He's 32! You guys are bias....


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

NYKBaller said:


> I mean are you serious? HOW IS THIS A BAD TRADE FOR THE KNICKS?? Kurt Thomas has virtually NO POST GAME! He's 32! You guys are bias....


Marbury to Thomas was top 5 in the "assisted by" category. That's pretty much the only consistent play the Knicks had, or were capable of running. KT was by far the best rebounder on the Knicks, Rose being the only one who comes close. This also means more PT for Mo Taylor. I guess it won't be too bad for the Knicks if they can utilize Q's post game and not expect him to create his own shot.


----------



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

i rather have sweetney posting up to the basket than marbury picknrolling to KT. 

Allan Houston is done
Penny doesn't want to play
Jermaine Jackson wont be resigned


I mean we were thinking of taking Antoine Wright with the 8th pick, now we can take a big for the whole draft

I wouldn't mind a 

Fran Vasquez or Channing Frye 8th
Randolph Morris/Martynas A/Mile Ilic 30th
Dwayne Jones/Deji Akindele 54th

Then sign a Dan Gadzuric with the MLE


----------



## kawika (May 7, 2003)

Yeah, I'll be in the minority camp on this one as well. Just because I.T. seems to do a lot of moronic things, it doesn't absolutely follow that everything he does is idiotic. I mean, I wonder if he's finally begun internalizing the idea that "win now" with what the Knicks have means a 35-45 win treadmill for the next forever. They have to make a committment to younger guys at some point, even if they're worse players at the moment. I could not for the life of me figure out last season why a team going nowhere was not playing Sweetney even 20 minutes a night, just to see what he could do. Whatever contending future the Knicks may have, there was zero chance KT was going to be a part of it. There's at least some chance Q-Rich will. No, the talent doesn't fit together very well right now, but then it didn't before either, so why not get a little younger? 

Re: Phoenix. It does help in the short-term. And I know Coangelo was named executive of the year or whatever, but he does seem quite invested to making deals for the short-term. ie I wonder how good that Nash deal will look in three years, especially if they don't even reach one final. Remember, the Suns were (apparently) deluded enough to think that trading for Walter McCarty at the deadline was going to be the difference between winning a champonship this year and not. It's waaay too easy to end up paying through the nose for a title you have little chance of getting. Young men who can play an NBA brand of ball are rare commodities. You should be very careful about trading them away for over-30 guys who are not stars. (That said, even for part/most of next season it may still look like Phoenix wins the trade. We'll see. Depends what other moves I.T. makes, among other things.)

This may be as close as I ever come to saying something nice about Isiah Thomas. :biggrin:


----------



## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

great trade for the suns. thomas is exactly what they need but hes also at the age where he could fall off anytime now, so they better hope that doesnt happen.


----------



## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

What a horrible move. Trading Q, who is young, and a good piece of the PHX run, and gun for an over 30, slow, not-so-great center? Yuck.


----------



## BULLS23 (Apr 13, 2003)

I'm a bit dumbfounded by this move . . . I guess NY now can "concentrate on bigs" in the draft, but they better hope Frye or Vasquez can help right away because none of the HS bigs or someone like May (reach) will help them next year. IT is a madman, and that's all I'll say.

For PHX, I wish they could've gotten someone a bit younger for Q. Kurt is teetering on being ineffective at this point in his career.

Oh well, we'll see when they jump it up next year.


----------



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

i mean get a big in the draft then get a vet in FA, I can easily see us going for Dan Gadzuric as insurance at the center spot which would now atleast be decent.


----------



## Hoopla (Jun 1, 2004)

Thomas is 32 now, but he's coming off a year where he averaged a double-double and played in 80 games. He will without question improve Phoenix' rebounding and defense.

The Suns are right there as far as being among the favorites to win it all next year. When you are that close, and especially with your MVP on the wrong side of 30, you just don't know when the opportunity will come again. You have to plan for now, and this trade makes them better for next year.

And Richardson isn't that good anyway.


----------



## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

Hoopla said:


> Thomas is 32 now, but he's coming off a year where he averaged a double-double and played in 80 games. He will without question improve Phoenix' rebounding and defense.
> 
> The Suns are right there as far as being among the favorites to win it all next year. When you are that close, and especially with your MVP on the wrong side of 30, you just don't know when the opportunity will come again. You have to plan for now, and this trade makes them better for next year.
> 
> And Richardson isn't that good anyway.


agree. the team that made the dumb move is NY, as usual. somebody please fire Isiah, please!


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

the trade is fair and it helps both teams.

the suns get a defender in the post and a very good rebounder. They are in a win now mode so his age isn't that big a factor as some are making it.

the knicks fill a need Jamal crawford is not a fulltime 2 guard , he is still more of a point guard...penny will not see MSG again as a knick , allan houston will almost assuredly be waived due to the new loophole put in the next CBA.

they need a 2 guard...Q is one and a decent one who helps out on the boards and will shoot his share of 3's off of drive and kicks from marbury. He also has a post up game which the post challenged knicks can use. and he is only 24 or 25 and athletic.

not liking kurt, isiah, or Q doesn't change the fact that the knicks and suns both did something that can help them each a great deal.


----------



## Knicksfan3 (Jun 23, 2005)

I am very much in favor of this trade. With us moving Allan Houston out of the picture it moves Q Rich in as a great 2 and will help out a lot. I also like the fact that Michael Sweetney now gets to be the starting PF cause I think he has a lot of talent and he can now prove it.


----------



## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

i think this trade actually opens things up for the knicks. i think the smartest move for them would be to trade marbury for a big. marbury and #8 could probably get a pretty good player. they could end up with
Pg- Crawford
Sg- Q-Rich
Sf-Thomas
Pf-Sweetney
C- Whoever they trade for

not to bad


----------



## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

Blink4 said:


> i think this trade actually opens things up for the knicks. i think the smartest move for them would be to trade marbury for a big. marbury and #8 could probably get a pretty good player. they could end up with
> Pg- Crawford
> Sg- Q-Rich
> Sf-Thomas
> ...


Where's Stephen Marbury? Isn't he the "best" player on the team? Or are you planning to put him on the bench?

All this trade does, if it actually does happen, is bring another guard to an already crowded position. Unless, Isiah Thomas, is planning to trade either Crawford or Marbury to get a Center, but I don't think that very likely, the way Isiah has mangled this organization.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Terrible trade for New York. At least for Phoenix it frees up some money to sign Joe Johnson. Isiah is insane.


----------



## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

i actually think thats a great trade for the knicks. Q is a pretty decent player, a starter caliber guard in the league. he had a miserable playoffs run, but he can put up 18pts/6/3 a game. he's strong, young, athletic, it forms a great 3 guard rotation for the knicks. Kurt thomas is an valueable piece for a good team, but nothing for the knicks. the knicks are gong no where with thomas anyway, why not make a move for a younger more athletic player. besides they want to give mike sweentey the minutes now. i think sweently will be a double double player next season.


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

At least the Suns are commited to becoming a better defensive team. Kurt Thomas may be undersized but he gives every ounce of effort in his body on the defensive end of the court. Amare has a ways to go defensively but I think he'll make some huge strides next year. Marion can now stay at SF full time where he is among the best defenders in the league. Johnson is an excellent defender. Nash sucks but every team has one bad defender. Thomas will also hit the glass and allow a guy like Amare to roam and help out on the weakside blocking shots. On offense, he has great range and can hit the open jumper with ease. All they need now is a better bench.


----------



## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

The problem for the Knicks to me is that they now have the most shoot first, 3-point launching backcourt maybe in NBA history. Q-Rich is a chucker just like Crawford, it will be interesting to see how that affects the Knicks ball movement or lack there of. To me that kills any chance of Sweetney getting any shot attempts in the post. Also, Kurt Thomas is still a double double guy with good defense. 

I think Isiah will go hard after Kwame Brown, believe it or not.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Suns would basically be starting over if they started trying to build a "normal" team. Thomas is going to start now correct? They just replaced a volume three point shooter with a slow big guy. Yeah he plays defense and can rebound, but that's a big hit to their running game. Now, Marion won't be guarded by guys a lot bigger than him, so his speed advantage in the open court won't be as noticable. Same logic for Amare. That's also a big hit to their running game. 

Make no mistake, they do have what it takes to start building a more balanced team. With Amare, Johnson and Marion, that's an amazing trio for a long time. I just don't know that this year is the year to try and make that switch over.


----------



## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Q is a chucker?
> 
> That was his freaking job on the Suns...hit threes. He did it at a historical level. It is early in the summer so I know the Suns are not done but it seems like people really criticize a player that played his role to perfection.
> 
> I think the Suns figured they will be more able to get perimeter help in this draft (Garcia, Hodge, Winston,McCants) then anyone who can help them on the blocks.


Excellent point!!

Phx can draft a replacement for Q and still play the small ball they played this year if JJ or the #21 pick can start, which is certainly possible. The wing men available at 21 are far more NBA ready than the bigs. It could be basically the same team, replacing a great 3 point shooter with a higher Bball IQ guy like Hodge or Garcia, and having Thomas on the bench when they need a banger. Nash, Johnson, and Hodge would give them three great floor vision at the same time.

Not to mention they get a future first from a NY team that could be overwhelming mediocre for some time.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If Steven Hunter thinks he deserves the MLE, he's going to vastly disappointment. What team will give it to a guy who can't catch passes, finish around the rim and is incredibly foul prone?


----------



## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

bottom line this trade effects and helps the knicks more than the suns, the suns hardly miss a beat without Q and with kurt thomas, they are going to win with their fantastic 4. Q is expandable, but Thomas doenst really help them much, this is an overrated trade in terms of impact. it doesnt impact the suns much at all. JJ/amare/nash/marion are definitely enough talents to win alot of games. on the other hand, the knicks benefits more then getting Q than having thomas o the team. 

what i mtrying to say is, this trade impacts the knicks more in a good way than the suns. so the knicks win the trade.


----------



## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Q is a pretty fair defender, don't forget. 

In the short term, this helps Phoenix, but in 4 years, when both players are still under contract and getting decent $, Q will be in his prime, and KT might well be toast.

But KT provides a lot of what Phx needs - post D and rebounding, plus a solid screener to work the pickandroll/pickandpop with Nash. 

Imagine, as Nash comes of the pick, KT takes a step to the hoop but then pops back. Meanwhile, Amare is cutting backdoor for an alley-oop. 

Have fun defending that, guys.

NY can use all 3 guys on the court at once, with Q at 3, and never have to use anyone else in the backcourt. 
SM = 36 min PG
JC = [email protected], [email protected]
Q = [email protected], [email protected]


----------



## picknroll (Jun 23, 2005)

apparently Dumars was the smarter of the 2 Pistons guards.


----------



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

NYKBaller said:


> i mean get a big in the draft then get a vet in FA, I can easily see us going for Dan Gadzuric as insurance at the center spot which would now atleast be decent.


LOL...every team in the league thinks they are getting Gadz.


----------



## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

tatahbenitez said:



> Where's Stephen Marbury? Isn't he the "best" player on the team? Or are you planning to put him on the bench?
> 
> All this trade does, if it actually does happen, is bring another guard to an already crowded position. Unless, Isiah Thomas, is planning to trade either Crawford or Marbury to get a Center, but I don't think that very likely, the way Isiah has mangled this organization.


did u notice how i said they should trade marbury because hes never won. thats why the center position says "whoever they trade for"


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

How is this a poor trade for the Knicks? It's a poor trade for the Suns, if anything. Why do they choose become slower?

Adding Q to the Knicks was a good move because Marbury, being the best drive-and-dish PG in the league, needs to be surrounded by shooters. Q isn't exactly Ray Allen when it comes to shooting ability, but he's still a huge three-point threat.

What baffles me is that Crawford is still on the team. Q will be infinitely more effective than Crawford next season. Watch.


----------



## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

picknroll said:


> apparently Dumars was the smarter of the 2 Pistons guards.


Then how do you explain Darko Milicic?


----------



## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

Sith said:


> bottom line this trade effects and helps the knicks more than the suns, the suns hardly miss a beat without Q and with kurt thomas, they are going to win with their fantastic 4. Q is expandable, but Thomas doenst really help them much, this is an overrated trade in terms of impact. it doesnt impact the suns much at all. JJ/amare/nash/marion are definitely enough talents to win alot of games. on the other hand, the knicks benefits more then getting Q than having thomas o the team.
> 
> what i mtrying to say is, this trade impacts the knicks more in a good way than the suns. so the knicks win the trade.


agreed the knicks are definitly getting the better end of the deal imo


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Spriggan said:


> What baffles me is that Crawford is still on the team. Q will be infinitely more effective than Crawford next season. Watch.


exactly, why was he brought to new york in the first place.....a shoot first, 6'2 sg/pg...who cant function without the ball...

give those duties to marbury....I think might get moved...he should be moved


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

The Mad Viking said:


> Q is a pretty fair defender, don't forget.
> 
> In the short term, this helps Phoenix, but in 4 years, when both players are still under contract and getting decent $, Q will be in his prime, and KT might well be toast.


Actually Thomas has 3 yrs left on his deal (about 21 million). Not 4 yrs. Q has 5 yrs left worth about 37.7 million. We're trying to make room to resign JJ.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

DwyaneWade4MVP said:


> Then how do you explain Darko Milicic?


Oh don't start that. Darko hasn't even been give a chance and ignorant people want to call him a bust already.


----------



## picknroll (Jun 23, 2005)

DwyaneWade4MVP said:


> Then how do you explain Darko Milicic?


Risky move that may or may not pan out. If Darko could go down to the NBDL and play a few years at least he'd get some time on the court... he'd be playing against Oliver Miller, but any time is better than none.

And you can't argue 1 move versus the 'Sheed deal, getting Elden Campbell back, signing Chauncey, dealing Stack for Rip, dealing G. Hill for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins, etc. He's made WAY to many great moves to be called out for one questionable (potentially awful) move. Plus he took a team that had Christian Laettner and a bunch of Doug Collins scrubs and won a title. Can't argue with that.

Isaiah, on the other hand...


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> If Steven Hunter thinks he deserves the MLE, he's going to vastly disappointment. What team will give it to a guy who can't catch passes, finish around the rim and is incredibly foul prone?


Now that Boston has tied up Mark Blount until the next decade? I don't know of any other team that looks for centers that have lobster claws rather than hands. :biggrin:


----------



## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Why do the Knicks keep getting horrible contract? Is IT crazy. Why get another overpaid Wing. The Knicks are going to be bad for a long time.


----------



## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

I say this deal is even for both teams, but judging by the track records and the last time these two GMs made a deal, Id say the Suns are gonna eventually come out on top.


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> I ****ing said this just ****ing yesterday.
> Isiah Thomas is a ****tard idgit. That's my kneejerk reaction.
> My follow up is, what the ****?


:rofl: Can you pick the next lottery numbers for me :biggrin:?



> i rather have sweetney posting up to the basket than marbury picknrolling to KT.
> 
> Allan Houston is done
> Penny doesn't want to play
> ...


Gadzuric with the entire MLE? Are you kidding me?



> the knicks fill a need Jamal crawford is not a fulltime 2 guard , he is still more of a point guard...penny will not see MSG again as a knick , allan houston will almost assuredly be waived due to the new loophole put in the next CBA.


So he's a combo guard who needs the ball in his hands quite often. What happens to Starbury? He plays a good 40+ minutes a game and needs the ball in his hands a whole lot too.

This doesn't free up cap space immediately to re-sign JJ, but it helps the entire outlook in a couple years. Good move by the Suns. I doubt KT will play anymore than 35 minutes, but he should play significant minutes for defensive and rebounding purposes. The big question is whether or not the Suns plan on re-signing Hunter. That could dictate the starting lineup next year as well as who they draft.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I expect Crawford to be the backup combo guard. Marbury PG, Q-Rich SG, Crawford backing up both spots.

I mean to write Crawford there.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

HKF said:


> I expect Crawford to be the backup combo guard. Marbury PG, Q-Rich SG, Richardson backing up both spots.


That would definitely be the smartest way to use him. Crawford could give them a nice boost off the bench.


----------



## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

great trade for Phoenix and aweful trade by the Knicks.

Thomas still very underrated watch for him to exploded next year with the suns.


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

HKF said:


> If Steven Hunter thinks he deserves the MLE, he's going to vastly disappointment. What team will give it to a guy who can't catch passes, finish around the rim and is incredibly foul prone?


The Knicks

Hunter and Frye will keep the Knicks without an effective center for years to come.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> The Knicks
> 
> Hunter and Frye will keep the Knicks without an effective center for years to come.


Please no. That would be horrible. Take Bynum Isiah. Please.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)




----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*in other words, i've lost it!*










"you see, the reason why i love this deal is because quentin is the first step to a title, having him as a perimeter player will turn out to be an ideal situation once i pick another undersized powerforward"


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Steven Hunter full MLE... it could happen. Check out Erick Dampier. :nonono:


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

HKF said:


> Please no. That would be horrible. Take Bynum Isiah. Please.


Wait, this will make it even worse. Zeke will trade Penny to Dallas for Damp and Abdul-Wahad

Just look at that big man rotation now:

C - Damp, Hunter & Frye
PF - Sweetney, Taylor & Rose


----------



## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

All of you guys are wrong! wrong! Wrong! The Knicks will draft Jason Maxiel


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

dissonance19 said:


> Actually Thomas has 3 yrs left on his deal (about 21 million). Not 4 yrs. Q has 5 yrs left worth about 37.7 million. We're trying to make room to resign JJ.


The whole 'this trade helps on resigning Joe Johnson' is quite a big myth to me. The reason is since Thomas has 3 more years, there will be at least 2 seasons where all the 'big' contracts on this team overlaps (Nash's, JJ's, Matrix's, and Amare's). Assuming Joe Johnson is given a 10-million-to-start contract and Amare is getting max extension, in season 06/07, the Suns are staring at a roughly 55M in guaranteed money, to ONLY 7 players (the starting 5 plus two first-round draft picks). Even next season, assuming no more big moves, the Suns will have about 52~55 M commited to 10 players. I failed to see any difference between keeping Q and trading for Kurt Thomas in such case.

The Suns, however, will save on last two year's of Q's contract.


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Chalie Boy said:


> All of you guys are wrong! wrong! Wrong! The Knicks will draft Jason Maxiel


Come on now. Max is a good kid, no need to joke about that


----------



## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> Come on now. Max is a good kid, no need to joke about that



I agree actually, but my point was somehow someway they will find a way to get another undersized pf.


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

this is an absolute disgrace, thank you isaiah for poisoning what would have otherwise been an awesome basketball day. quentin richardson is useless, absolutely useless to this current knicks roster, and kurt thomas was my favorite knick, and was the leader, heart and soul of the team. i wouldnt be surprised to see the knicks win less than 25 games next year. absolutely pathetic.


----------



## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

Isiah Thomas is a joke. That's all that is left to say, this is a bad trade for the Knicks for obvious reasons.

You trade your only player with heart for another brick thrower with absolutely no IQ to know what a good or bad shot is, and your tallest player left is 6'7".


----------



## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

well they will draft a PF. Kurt thomas sucks anyways.


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

sherwin said:


> well they will draft a PF. Kurt thomas sucks anyways.



no, kurt thomas doesnt suck, and he's tenfold better than any power forward on the houston rockets.


----------



## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

tatahbenitez said:


> Where's Stephen Marbury? Isn't he the "best" player on the team? Or are you planning to put him on the bench?
> 
> All this trade does, if it actually does happen, is bring another guard to an already crowded position. Unless, Isiah Thomas, is planning to trade either Crawford or Marbury to get a Center, but I don't think that very likely, the way Isiah has mangled this organization.


The guy you responded to said to trade Marbury!

This trade will be questioned until the season is underway. Could the Suns have gotten something better than a PF/C who averaged a double/double and a future 1st rounder? I doubt it. 

The Knicks cleared a little cap space by dealing Thomas, but not much. This move seems to be an insurance move for the Knicks to go ahead and try and deal Marbury maybe to the Jazz for the #6 pick? Utah has the cap room and the need of a PG, but would Sloan co-exist w/ Marbury? With Utah's cast dealing for Marbury would be a good move. He can pass and Sloan could help turn his career around.


----------



## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

Yes I don't think I understand the reasoning either, Kurt was one of the only tradeable commodities on the Knicks so at least if you are going to trade him you should only have traded him for size a 7 footer that you can put on the front line, if this is true and from everything I have been reading it looks like it is I don't understand what Isiah is thinking but I think that pretty much guarantees that they will be taking Frye 8th, and maybe Bynum 30th if he is still there.


----------



## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

TheLegend said:


> and your tallest player left is 6'7".


I haven't read every single post in this thread but this is not the first person to forget that Tim Thomas is 6'10". Too bad he can't play centre.


----------



## VCFSO2000 (Apr 10, 2005)

I think this is a good trade...

The only reason I think it's a good trade is because now,the 2 guys I wanted 

to be rescued from NY's madness: Mohammed and Thomas...Kurt that is.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Kurt Thomas was not going to net you a 7'0 footer who could actually play. Let's be real here. This guy isn't that good. He can't defend any kind of face up PF's because he has no quickness and he can't post up worth a damn, all he can do is shoot jumpers.

However he can defend the low block and he can make 15-18 foot elbow jumpers. He's perfect for the Suns in the halfcourt off the bench IMO.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

HKF said:


> Kurt Thomas was not going to net you a 7'0 footer who could actually play. Let's be real here. This guy isn't that good. He can't defend any kind of face up PF's because he has no quickness and he can't post up worth a damn, all he can do is shoot jumpers.
> 
> However he can defend the low block and he can make 15-18 foot elbow jumpers. He's perfect for the Suns in the halfcourt off the bench IMO.


 He everything Amare is not. Good move by the Suns then.


----------



## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Interesting trade...

I like it from the Suns perspective, as I don't think they could win a championship without another decent big. Whether Kurt Thomas is that man remains to be seen, but certainly helps them in the post.

Q made tons of 3s and helped make the Suns who they were this season, but he also turned in a few doughnuts and wasn't too impressive in the playoffs. The Suns will have Jackson off the bench for another year, but who knows after that. 

This move would lead you to believe that PHX may be taking a swingman in the draft now (supposedly enamored w/ Garcia). Or they could go big and expand Leo's role off the bench.

On the Knicks' side, Isiah seems to be putting together an AND 1 roster for the NBA. As HKF mentioned earlier, these guys are talented and flashy, but I don't think they have great hoops IQs. They would dominate at Rucker, but I'm not sure about MSG. Also, he traded away their only legit post presence in Kurt, and from what reports say, they'll be banking on Channing Frye as their starting C.


----------



## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

I'm not really seeing how this trade frees up room for PHX to resign JJ, well not in the short term of the next three seasons anyway.

Kurt Thomas
$6.6 in 2005-2006
$7.35 in 06-07
$8.09 in 07-08

Q-Rich
$6.3 in 05-06
$6.9 in 06-07
$7.5 in 07-08
$8.1 in 08-09
$8.7 in 09-10

Thomas will make more in these next 3 yrs., but Thomas' deal comes off the books sooner, obviously.


----------



## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

:rofl:

All of Isiah's trades are hysterical.

Isiah you've done it again! AND 1 basketball has now officially come into the league!


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Pay Ton said:


> :rofl:
> 
> All of Isiah's trades are hysterical.
> 
> Isiah you've done it again! AND 1 basketball has now officially come into the league!


I don't know, I think Alimoe is better than Crawford. :angel:


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

They will trade for Rafer Alston to play center. :biggrin:


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think Crawford is the best player on the Knicks. Still.

Which isn't a good situation. They need to trade Marbury now and turn the reigns over to Crawford full time at point guard. Isiah can talk about in theory those guys splitting minutes, but Crawford is going to chafe at coming off the bench behind guys he probably schools in practice.

Send Marbury to Minnesota for Wally Szerbiak and Trent Hassell.


----------



## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Send Marbury to Minnesota for Wally Szerbiak and Trent Hassell.


The salaries are close. Wally 10 million Hassell 3.9 million.
Marbury 16 million and change.

I don't see this trade going down. Hassell is set in Minny and Hudson can play the PG spot. 

I like the idea of sending Marbury to Utah for the #6 pick and maybe a little salary too.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

thetobin73 said:


> The salaries are close. Wally 10 million Hassell 3.9 million.
> Marbury 16 million and change.
> 
> I don't see this trade going down. Hassell is set in Minny and Hudson can play the PG spot.
> ...


 Marbury in UTAH!!! HAHHAAA. This is the guy who grew homesick in Minnesota but now he ends up in Mormon country.

I would love to be in the room when Isiah tells him that trade has gone down.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> I think Crawford is the best player on the Knicks. Still.
> 
> Which isn't a good situation. They need to trade Marbury now and turn the reigns over to Crawford full time at point guard. Isiah can talk about in theory those guys splitting minutes, but Crawford is going to chafe at coming off the bench behind guys he probably schools in practice.
> 
> Send Marbury to Minnesota for Wally Szerbiak and Trent Hassell.


I wouldn't want crawford running anything....


i cant believe people think so little of marbury....who in the hell else would want crawford over marbury


----------



## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> Marbury in UTAH!!! HAHHAAA. This is the guy who grew homesick in Minnesota but now he ends up in Mormon country.
> 
> I would love to be in the room when Isiah tells him that trade has gone down.


I can't believe that a grown man is such a ****ing pu$$*. Home Sick? I remember that crap. Well keep him in NY and watch the ship sink even farther.

I love Stephon Marbury's game. I would like to see him dealt somewhere that has a chance to atleast compete for a playoff spot. Maybe New York will do that, but when???? It sucks watching a guy's career rot away when he could be playing meaningful ball.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

What about trading him to Denver for Nene and salary?

Miller and Marbury would be an interesting backcourt. George Karl could make it work.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

tone wone said:


> I wouldn't want crawford running anything....
> 
> 
> i cant believe people think so little of marbury....who in the hell else would want crawford over marbury


I wouldn't want either of them on any team of mine, but at least Crawford is young and may someday come around. I wouldnt' ever want him as a PG, though.


----------



## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> What about trading him to Denver for Nene and salary?
> 
> Miller and Marbury would be an interesting backcourt. George Karl could make it work.


That would be a very interesting backcourt. I don't want to give up Nene, but I ship out Boykins and Martin for him? That is the only salary combo that would work (or come close). 

A trade of Marbury to Denver would change the face of both clubs for sure. The results would be interesting to say the least.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> What about trading him to Denver for Nene and salary?
> 
> Miller and Marbury would be an interesting backcourt. George Karl could make it work.


 how about trading crawford.....

Marbury for Nene...thats not enough....once again, i cant believe people...you....think so little of Marbury


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Crawford will be the 6th man. He isn't running the point for anyone. First of all, he sucks and has horrible shot selection.

Stephon avg. 21.6 ppg on 46% shooting with 8 dimes a game. Trading him, but keeping a bum like Crawford would be the stupidest thing in the world.


----------



## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

where the hell has marbury's value dropped so low. marbury for wall and hassell? rofl i hpoe u r kidding....


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

HKF said:


> Stephon avg. 21.6 ppg on 46% shooting with 8 dimes a game. Trading him, but keeping a bum like Crawford would be the stupidest thing in the world.


And what in Zeke's track record would make you think he wouldn't do the stupidest thing in the world?


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Starbury to Denver :rofl: Karl had trouble keeping Sam I am in check, what is he going to do with a shoot first point guard that doesn't defend?

Kiki isn't that dumb that he would trade for players that play the way they don't want Melo to play.

Marbury's value has dropped because he doesn't win. He produces, but doesn't make his team better. If only he realized how perfectly paired he and KG were. They could have been the highest scoring, no winning duo in history.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Marbury to Cleveland in a sign and trade for Z? Z had been house shopping in New York...

Cavs then throw their remaining money at Dahlembert or Chandler...and trade Pavlovic for a first round pick. Draft Luther Head.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> And what in Zeke's track record would make you think he wouldn't do the stupidest thing in the world?


Stop with the good logic already. Just stop it! :curse:


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> If only he realized how perfectly paired he and KG were. They could have been the highest scoring, no winning duo in history.



Haha.
Which is why i think they need to come full circle and send him back to KG to right the original wrongs.

I think Zeke likes Crawford more than Marbury.


----------



## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

is this thing official yet?


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Doesn't Kurt Thomas have a trade kicker that will make his contract look pretty ugly?


----------



## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> They'll be better better built for the playoffs. It doesn't solve every problem they have of course, they still need depth. They can still play Nash, JJ, JJ, Marion, Amare whenever they want to...they just have another option now on defense down low. They'll still have 4 3-point shooters in that case, and would otherwise have three great 3-point shooters on the break...which is still more than most have. I don't think this trade hurts the Suns because they weren't going to win it all with what they had. Dalembert and those guys are not only unproven when it comes to consistency but they would have cost the Suns too much in return. Sure, they might not score 110 this season, but they probably will give up a couple less points per game off the opponents offensive rebounding alone. When it comes time for San Antonio vs Phoenix next year, I think Suns fans will be glad they made this trade.
> 
> I see no way that the Suns pay Steven the MLE.



i agree with everything you say here. this is a good, not great, but good, trade for the suns. even the showtime lakers had to have a dirty kurt (rambis), now we have ours. he'll play tough d, rebound (which means more breaks), and hit the 15-18 foot jumper opening up the lane for amare. sorry to see q go as he brought some grit and emotion, but with kurt in the lane i don't see manu and parker waltzing down quite as comfortably next year as kurt will deposit them on their backsides (note, not block their shot, but give 'em a taste of physicality). as for ny, whew . . . isiah baffles me.


----------



## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Q is a chucker?
> 
> That was his freaking job on the Suns...hit threes. He did it at a historical level. It is early in the summer so I know the Suns are not done but it seems like people really criticize a player that played his role to perfection.
> 
> I think the Suns figured they will be more able to get perimeter help in this draft (Garcia, Hodge, Winston,McCants) then anyone who can help them on the blocks.



your second point is an important one i think.

i was surprised when i looked at q's stats from this year. he hit a ton of 3's, but his percentage wasn't that impressive. jjax hit for a better number last year. and it's easier to get a swingman/shooter (think of plugging in a wesley person-type) than a defensive rebounding big.


----------



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

http://tinyurl.com/aht3p

knicks get a draft pick not the suns, Knicks > suns in the trade...


----------



## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Suns would basically be starting over if they started trying to build a "normal" team. Thomas is going to start now correct? They just replaced a volume three point shooter with a slow big guy. Yeah he plays defense and can rebound, but that's a big hit to their running game. Now, Marion won't be guarded by guys a lot bigger than him, so his speed advantage in the open court won't be as noticable. Same logic for Amare. That's also a big hit to their running game.
> 
> Make no mistake, they do have what it takes to start building a more balanced team. With Amare, Johnson and Marion, that's an amazing trio for a long time. I just don't know that this year is the year to try and make that switch over.



what this line of thinking doesn't take into consideration is the increased number of rebounds the suns are likely to snare. the marion/thomas/amare trio averaged over 30/game last year. if thomas snares a rebound it still allows for runouts for jj, marion, and amare on the wings. and with thomas' range he' can be an excellent secondary break guy who follows the break and pulls up for an 18 footer.


----------



## matt! (Feb 21, 2005)

NYKBaller said:


> http://tinyurl.com/aht3p
> 
> knicks get a draft pick not the suns, Knicks > suns in the trade...


Ummm...great, the Knicks get a 25-30 pick in a future draft, I can't wait to pick up Oden.


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

I think this is a great trade for the Suns.

Here's a couple reasons why:

First off the Suns still maintain 5 players capable of playing the run and gun. 

PG Nash, SG Jackson (better 3 point shooter than Q), SF Johnson (he's 6-7), PF Marion, and C Stoudemire. 

This lineup is very similar to what they just had. Some could argue it's the same or better.

However they also get the option of rotating everyone down a notch without losing a whole lot (unlike when they rotated down for Hunter).

PG Nash, SG Johnson, SF Marion, PF Stoudemire, C Thomas.

Unlike Hunter, Thomas is actually a threat to score. Teams could double team Stoudemire down low with Hunter in the lineup because no one cared what Hunter did (if they did get him the ball Hunter would dribble it off his foot most of the time). Thomas is a player you actually have to respect some and can also crash the boards. 

The best player available for the Suns come the draft will most likely be a SF/PF. Not a Center. The centers in the draft (that the Suns might be able to draft) are projects (Petro, Andriuskevicius) and would not help them much next season. However guys like Garcia, Diogu, and Warrick are ready to contribute next season (I expect two of the three being available when the Suns pick). With Q the Suns might have ended up with a lockjam at the SG/SF position (with Joe, Q, Jackson, and the pick playing one of two positions), with Thomas the Suns will have more flexibility. 


Also compare the salaries:

Thomas:

6.6 million, 7.3 Million, 8.0 Million

Richardson:

6.3 Million, 6.96 Million, 7.54 Million, 8.1 Million, 8.7 Million

With two years left on Thomas' contract the Suns will have more flexibility to cough up the money to resign Joe Johnson (the less money tied up in the future the more money the owner is willing to spend now).


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Sith said:


> bottom line this trade effects and helps the knicks more than the suns, the suns hardly miss a beat without Q and with kurt thomas, they are going to win with their fantastic 4. Q is expandable, but Thomas doenst really help them much, this is an overrated trade in terms of impact. it doesnt impact the suns much at all. JJ/amare/nash/marion are definitely enough talents to win alot of games. on the other hand, the knicks benefits more then getting Q than having thomas o the team.
> 
> what i mtrying to say is, this trade impacts the knicks more in a good way than the suns. so the knicks win the trade.


The Suns don't want to "win alot of games", they want to compete for a championship. If you watched the Suns last year you'd have seen that at times they couldn't get a rebound to save their lives...their playoff lives to be more specific. How do you fastbreak when you can't get a defensive rebound? Marion now gets to guard people his size for at least some of the game, but they can still go small and force other teams to adjust. If Amare improves on defense like he says he going to (and if they can sign at least 2 players to help off the bench), the Suns can compete for that 'ship.

As far as Kurt not being very good...maybe not. But he is very good at what he does and what the Suns need him for. Q was good at what he did (loft up a three every time Nash gave him the ball), but it isn't really what the Suns need going forward. Q doesn't help you when the game is on the line and you need those two or three stops. 

Kurt's contract will come off the books when the top four guys' salaries really need it to. They'll do fine for the first couple years of paying them all, as long as they know they'll have some relief in the future. Thus far, Robert Sarver is not one who seems to be stingy with his money when it comes to the Suns. They are willing to pay as long as they can compete for the championship. Champions bring in killer revenues...so if they win it won't matter how much they are paying for these players. 

About 12 of the projected 30 first round picks for 2006 are shooting guards, so the Suns will be able to find a young guy next year in the draft if they need to. If the Knicks pick is for next year (probably conditional anyways, so no idea), they could still get something decent at 28-30. Hopefully we won't have to give it up until 2007 at least. Suns have an extra first rounder with no conditions that can be paid to us at any time by Cleveland (Top 13 protected). Also, Cleveland owes Phoenix a second round pick in 2008. I really don't like the Suns giving up a pick for this, but then again it wouldn't be someone the Suns could afford anyways...and hopefully they can collect from Cleveland once they start really winning games.


----------



## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

NYKBaller said:


> http://tinyurl.com/aht3p
> 
> knicks get a draft pick not the suns, Knicks > suns in the trade...



apparently the conditions are so difficult to meet that the knicks will never see the pick. even so, i'd be willing to throw in that pick for kurt. it will never be better than 27-30 for the foreseeable future anyway...


----------



## RunningWings (Jun 9, 2005)

This is a damn good trade for the Suns. I'm not so sure that is good for the Knicks though. Kurt Thomas was their second best player last year after Marbury. He held that team together w/ his defense, rebounding, toughness, jump shot and veteran prescence. Basically, he's a guy that will do whatever is asked of him. I don't think he's done yet. He looks good physically and stamina is somethin' that Mike D'Antoni will develop in him. Colangelo is a damn fine gm. Does whatever needs to be done to improve that team.


----------



## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

kurt thomas and quentin richardson make around the same salary......... their still gonna lose Joe Johnson because their still 1 million over the cap


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Ron Mexico said:


> kurt thomas and quentin richardson make around the same salary......... their still gonna lose Joe Johnson because their still 1 million over the cap




There are things called Bird Rights and Restricted Free Agency. Suns can match any offer for JJ.


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ron Mexico said:


> kurt thomas and quentin richardson make around the same salary......... their still gonna lose Joe Johnson because their still 1 million over the cap



What are you talking about? The only way they'll lose him is if the owner doesn't want to put up the money. Joe is a restricted free agent and the Suns can match everything and anything no matter if it puts them over the cap or not.


----------



## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

Looks like he is not going and it may not happen.
Link 
don't know how valid nbasource is. But People have said that WFAN has said the same thing.


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

Gambino said:


> Looks like he is not going and it may not happen.
> Link
> don't know how valid nbasource is. But People have said that WFAN has said the same thing.


I saw the article. All it says is there is a "chance" the deal might not be made because of some insurance thing. It never says it WON'T happen.


----------



## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

if it happens, it sad to send away Q, I liked him as a personality and a player. But atleast he will be traded to a city where his personality is much more suited... although he may miss the playoffs.


KT would be beneficial for the suns period. No longer will Hunter mess up those nice passes down low and turn it over. KT is a good shooter from mid and will help a lot more than Hunter, who has butterfingers.


Also, this means that JJ will be priorities... the suns are basically giving him the keys for that 2 spot and back up 1 and 3 spot....


----------



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

RealGM is reporting that the deal is done. The pick the Suns send to the Knicks could not be used until at the earliest 2007 and even then it will be lottery protected. 

The delay in the deal involved insurance for Quenten Richardson's back problems.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Marbury to Cleveland in a sign and trade for Z? Z had been house shopping in New York...
> 
> Cavs then throw their remaining money at Dahlembert or Chandler...and trade Pavlovic for a first round pick. Draft Luther Head.


 I think this could be a possible trade for the Knicks who definetely need a center, but I wouldn't do it if I were them :wink:.


----------



## OGR (Mar 9, 2005)

Lets see:

Trade a 33 year old for a 25 year old.
Trade a guy with absolutely no post presence, for a guy who can actually post up.
Trade a guy who can't jump over 2 pieces of paper, for a guy who can run the court.
Trade an overrated post defender, for a guy who can defend when forced to, and has all the tools to do so.
Trade a guy that will free up the center position (so we may draft one at the draft) for a guy who will complete the 3 man guard rotation.

I don't see how the Knicks lose in this trade. Kurt Thomas is the heart and soul of this team and kept the team together? The team won 33 Freaking Games! What did he keep together? Losing Streaks!? 

We get younger, get a guy who can bust zones with his 3 point shooting, a guy who can post up more efficiently than Kurt Thomas (the only reason he didn't post up much in Phoenix, as much as he did in L.A was because he was told not to, not part of their run and gun offense), and a guy who hasn't even reached his prime (25, Prime is 27-32).

Good trade by the Knicks.


----------



## got chang (May 16, 2005)

isiah thomas is starting to remind me more and more of mitch kupchak


----------



## CelticsSaint1977 (Jun 19, 2005)

Gambino said:


> What in the world is Isiah Thomas doing???Somebody please explain this


 _Isiah Thomas was one of the best decision makers in the NBA as a point guard for the Detroit Pistons. As an executive, what exactly is he building in NY?! Its a rhetorical question. He has a bunch of big contracts and overhaul of players at the small forward and shooting guard position. I think Q-Rich will end up being the best player on that team. (we shall see about Ariza!) BUT you still have Marbury(inconsistent, and trigger happy); Crawford( triggerhappy, no defense, head case) and Tim Thomas(never lived to his potential and soft for a man his size). Isiah Thomas is going to draft small again, according to many online sources; and he is about to release Allan Houston and his contract (NYs best pure shooter). The only way this trade works is if Thomas trades one of the aforementioned players for a younger athletic big man. 
NY is going to be this decades version of the Clippers with a large payroll. Perrenial doormats who will always be in the lottery. For such a proud franchise that produced the likes of Reed, Monroe, King and Ewing and now they have ballhogs and streetballers. Damn Zeke!!

The only way Madison Square Garden Sells out is if Jay-Z holds another Encore concert or Spike Lee pays people to show up with him._


----------



## OGR (Mar 9, 2005)

Uh, Marbury isn't inconsistent and trigger happy. Last year he averaged the least amount of shots he's ever shot per game in a year, and he's the most consistent player on the team. Don't make that comment unless you watch him play day in and day out.

And Crawford is a headcase? Where are you getting this from?

May we please get to the draft and offseason before we bash this trade?


----------



## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

HKF said:


> The Knick depth chart after this trade:
> 
> PG - Stephon Marbury/Jamal Crawford
> SG - Quentin Richardson/Penny Hardaway (expiring), Allen Houston
> ...


He's gutting the team of fitting players besides Marbury and Sweetney, going for Marbury and Oden in 07-08, then taking years to fill in the holes around them. Or he'll just stick with a roster like this and have like 100 3-pointers for each time Oden touches it. Maybe he trades Marbury and Sweetney, wins 12 games in 06-07, and then gets the #3 pick to miss out on Oden and Mayo. That reminds me, Isiah might take Mayo over Oden anyway, get more perimeter play.

Maybe he's taking the team to And1.


----------



## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

I'm praying this isn't going to happen


----------



## superdude211 (Apr 3, 2004)

> - According to the New York Post, the Quentin Richardson to the Knicks deal for Kurt Thomas deal has hit a snag. The Knicks have discovered they are not insured if he sustains a career-ending, back-related injury. The paper believes the deal will still get done, but it may take some more time.


http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=128987


----------



## NYK101 (Jun 24, 2005)

hey CiMa, how about marbury is not a ballhog, he averaged 8.1 assists per game last season, shows how much you know, @$$ CLOWN!


----------



## NYK101 (Jun 24, 2005)

OGR said:


> Lets see:
> 
> Trade a 33 year old for a 25 year old.
> Trade a guy with absolutely no post presence, for a guy who can actually post up.
> ...


Well Put...... 

:basket:


----------



## NYK101 (Jun 24, 2005)

The Knicks lineup is gonna be...
PG-marbury
SG-crawford
SF-Q-Rich
PF-tim thomas
C-Mo Taylor

this is without doing trades, signing free agents, or the draft

if you all think that only Crawford or Q will start at SG, thats not true because Q played SF on Phoenix

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/depth?team=pho


----------

