# The best possible deal is still,



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

channing frye for shelden williams . 

i think its rather obvious the hawks will pick a PF with the 3rd pick, after the 1st 2 picks the best 4 players left are probably power forwards in Noah , Yi , horford and wright. 

channing is a center who is playing power forward and is a guy who is made for pick and roll/pops with joe johnson . 

I honestly think conley will be there at 11 for them(mostly because just about every top 10 team has a good young pg on its roster) allowing them to essentially fix their lineup in 1 fell swoop 

a team with lets say 
Frye /zaza 
horford /marvin williams 
Josh smith /childress 
joe johnson / stoudamire 
mike conley jr./anthony johnson 

is pretty good and talented. 

it is basically a team that is night and day from last year , it has scoring in the post and 2 able well rounded big men capable of posting up and scoring from the perimeter...whereas last season they were very unbalanced and all their points came from the outside because all of their bigs are small and not good inside scorers with no post game. 

for the knicks 

shelden really is what the knicks need, he is a defender/rebounder with a good mid rannge shot and apparently no real desire to post up which is perfect because the post is Curry's domain, plus he is a leader , a "winner" and young , he is a player who can grow as the knicks young core grows.,,For a team in dire need of chemistry and defense its hard to pick out a player in the nba who is not a star(meaning not a player who the knicks will have to overspend to get) who better fits the knicks needs.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Disagree big time...*

not with the concept....just about Williams. I watched him a lot in college. Low post guy exclusively. Very limited shot range. Just a banger, really. Every time I saw him matched up against a talented big guy (and there weren't many in the ACC), he got outplayed. Guy from NC State destroyed him. I felt he was a HUGE reach for the Hawks. Over-rated shot blocker because he had good numbers at the college level. The kind of shots he blocked were not what he will be seeing these days. He is very strong and that is the ONLY advantage he has over Lee. Lee is a better boarder and offensive player. Don't see it as a boon for the Knicks. Lee should be the PF unless he is moved for a young player that actually makes the Knicks better. Funny how you always want to get a PF that compliments Curry, yet you fail to acknowledge that Curry played his best ball while Lee was his running mate. They were a monster duo.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I dont care about what happened in college this isn't college .

if you want to bring up college both Lee and Frye were underachieving big men which williams wasn't .

but this is the pro's , he was a low post guy in college because pyhsically he was so much stronger than every1 else , in the pro's he gets most of his points from his mid-range J , in college the low post player was a role he had to play but its not how he is going to make a living in the nba, that much is obvious now.

he isn't really a shotblocker in the pro's and btw neither is frye anymore because some things dont translate ...players are bigger and more athletic , more crafty.

but some things did , he rebounds well, as a rook he was a better rebounder than Lee was a as a rook, and he was a top 20 rebounder in the league this year as far as his rebounding rate goes. he plays good man to man defense and he comes over to bother people and he gets there on time unlike the knicks bigs.

he doesn't need a post game in ny , they have curry , and even morris and jerome james are all low post back to the basket players ...they need a player who can spread the floor and be accounted for on offense which sadly none of the knicks bigs accomplished for curry last year for different reasons(david often wouldn't shoot the J when left open, channing got too few open looks because he didn't move enough and is actaully a willing and accurate shooter so the defense was more alert to him on the perimeter , malik kinda sucks and cant hit close in shots because he gets blocked too much and balkman and jeffries cant shoot) they need more players who can put guys in their roles , every1 knows Lee far outplayed Frye last season , but except for a Jerome james stint at the 4 right before the trade deadline , there was no way of moving Frye from the starting lineup

Frye was the worst guy to match up with Curry because he is basically a lumbering big man at the 4 , while he is probably of avg.or above avg. quickness for a center . Channing needs the ball to be most effective while Lee doesn't , lee go gets it, same with shelden, except shelden plays good defense too.

with the knicks last season the team did better with jared , malik or balkman than they did with Channing next to curry.

Lee to me is a top 6th man because he physically cant defend all types of 4's , he isn't physical enough , strong enough or basically tough enough to guard some of them , but he has other abilities he can take advantage of. He is stronger than most 3's and quicker than most 4's, he was far more impactful off the bench last season as a starter the results were not as good from a team aspect , but he led several surges off the bench against back up- players who cant compete with him...he has versatility enough to play all both forward spots off the bench.

I dont think with his lack of help defense he will be much more than an avg. starter at the 4....you can only do so much with loose balls , off. rebounds and the occasional feed from a guard.

If Lee wind up starting over williams its not a problem for me , I just dont think it will happen until Lee is a significantly better defensive player. but he isn't going to start over frye because if that were to happen Zeke would never get anything for him , as a coach he might want to start Lee , but being the GM too its just not likely , a trade for a more suitable player makes it more likely the best and most effective player starts.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*You're frustrating to debate with...*

1) You obviously have an anti-Lee agenda. Whether he slept with your sister or something else, I have no idea. The guy is nearly 6'10" and 250 lb. How many Pfs are bigger? You are writing off what the guy can and can't do after one real year of playing time (which by the way, he was fantastic). Okay, he was reluctant to shoot but he CAN shoot and probably will. Its a matter of confidence. It is absolute STUPIDITY to say that a guy in his second year can or cannot do something. He got better in EVERY year he has played for the last 6. Last year went up 20% in FTs. 

2) Williams cannot guard quicker forwards that Lee can and there is NO evidence that Williams can guard the stronger ones any better. Don't bother giving me the line about how you have watched him, etc. NOBODY watched the Hawks this year...even hawk fans. I saw all the games against the knicks and he showed nothing.

3) Never said you expected him to be a shot blocker. I simply said it was not a strength. I have been watching college and pro for a long time and I KNOW what translates to the NBA from college. He is a big, plodding, mediocre shooting PF who in NO way will spread the floor for Curry. He played low post in college because he had NO outside game. Big guys DO play outside in college....even at Duke IF they have game.Do you also think he will take opposing forwards off the dribble once he cleverly lures them outside? Lee can. BTW, he was ever so slightly more effective as a rebounder than Lee but I'll bet you anything he isn't remotely close to 6th in the league next year, as Lee was for most of this year. Nor will he shoot 60%. Nor will he get out on the break. Again, I don't know how Frye even got into the discussion. It is about Lee and Williams. You never addressed Curry's (and the teams) success when paired together. So you say it's no problem if the man you traded for our #8 pick for sits behind Lee? That is very forward thinking, Grinch. Way to improve the roster. Like we need more PF depth while starving for outside shooting.

The BEST Williams will EVER be is Oakley without the jumpshot. In todays NBA that sounds like a situational bench player to me.

It amazes me that you are already talking about Morris' game when he hasn't even scored 10 points in his career. Got some inside info there, grinch?

Frye might get traded, but it will NEVER be for a stiff like Williams.


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## shakespeare (Nov 2, 2006)

*deleted*Da grinch add something to the conversation or dont bother


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: You're frustrating to debate with...*



alphaorange said:


> 1) You obviously have an anti-Lee agenda. Whether he slept with your sister or something else, I have no idea. The guy is nearly 6'10" and 250 lb. How many Pfs are bigger? You are writing off what the guy can and can't do after one real year of playing time (which by the way, he was fantastic). Okay, he was reluctant to shoot but he CAN shoot and probably will. Its a matter of confidence. It is absolute STUPIDITY to say that a guy in his second year can or cannot do something. He got better in EVERY year he has played for the last 6. Last year went up 20% in FTs.
> 
> 2) Williams cannot guard quicker forwards that Lee can and there is NO evidence that Williams can guard the stronger ones any better. Don't bother giving me the line about how you have watched him, etc. NOBODY watched the Hawks this year...even hawk fans. I saw all the games against the knicks and he showed nothing.
> 
> ...



I am not even going to begin to deal with your post i am just going to point out 1 simple thing to show how crazy you are.


in point 1 you tell me how stupid it is to say what a player can do after 2 seasons as a pro....but in your next paragraph you proceed to tell me what a rookie cant do....and actually then go on in some great length about that rook's limitations.


i have to admit I got a good laugh out of that one, thanks.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

rubbish idea 

frye sucks and the rest of the nba know it


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*The best possible deal is still,* 

Trade the 23rd pick with Jared Jefferies to the Kings for Ron Artest. 

Ron Artest will be the only Knick Player that would be BOLD enough to tell Isiah Thomas to his face that untill Eddy Curry learn how to play DEFENSE he is a 24 MPG player. Plus he will let Isiah know that he will never get anything affective on the court using two Bigmen players (that you expect points, rebounding, and blockshots from) that play the same position on offense (Curry & Frye) they should be backing each other at the Center position. 

The Knicks needed a Center and Isiah Thomas in just one offseason (2006) went out and got Butler, Frye, Lee, James, Davis, and Curry. All these (6) Players can play the Center-Position (Plus dont forget Malik Rose is the best defender on Shaq). 
This was one of the strong reasons why Coach Larry Brown wanted the Knicks to get PG-Eric Snow. But settled for Francis in the midseason. 
Some may say all these Bigmen was wise of Isiah Thomas, but it was DUMB for the roster which needed a fastbreaking SF and a SG to run with the Knicks "only" fastbreaking players their Rookies C-Frye, PF-Lee, and PG-Nate.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

conley will not be there at 11, port will find a way to get him earlier


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I see this as a fairly lateral move, despite the obvious differences in players. IMO, Curry and Lee are still the superior players, and you are just bringing in a better backup with a different style.

So it's a good trade, but still quite lateral, in terms of minute distribution. 

BUT, I can't possibly see why many teams have an interest in Frye. I can't see Atlanta going for this deal,.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Here's the thing.....*

Frye was drafted as a center and really IS a center. Coaches fell in love with his jumper and thought "Hey....lets make him a PF!" If you want to get a feel for his potential, look at his stats from his rookie year when he played more center and was a bigger part of the offense. If he played with the Suns, he'd be a big time scorer. As it is, I think he will settle into a 18-20 point scorer and a 9+ rebound guy. Don't overlook the fact he was in the running for rookie of the year for quite a while before Paul buried everyone. I don't have blinders on...I KNOW how bad he played and looked last year. I just also know how well he played his first year and saw nothing to make me think it was a fluke. He is devalued now and someone will get a solid player. I think he will develop into a top 5-7 center if given the chance with the right situation.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

Frye is as much a center as nate robinson,he played center in college and did ok,in the nba he would get eaten alive 

He`s just a jump shooting PF with no athleticism,he`ll never be anything other than a benchwarmer


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Ignorant statement*

Frye sure was a center in college...and the 2nd best one in the draft. Will he give up points? Sure will. Can he make an opposing centers life hell? Sure can. The man has had some very good games (30+ and 12+). How do you define a center? Don't tell me about defense because it has taken your namesake more than 10 years to figure out how to play defense and Curry doesn't stop anyone but he sure is a center. I guess you need to point out 7 centers who are better before I am wrong.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

i guess we`ll have to disagree alpha,

yao ming,jermaine o`neal,ben wallace,fabricio oberto,chris webber,amare stoudemire,memhet okur,shaquille o`neal,andris biedrins,eddy curry,marcus camby,dwight howard,Andrea bargnani 

All would dominate frye in the paint

add the plethora of big men coming into the league this year and frye`s not even in the top 10-12


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Half your guys are PFs....*

We'll see......nm


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

yeah we will see !!

we`ll see that im right ..end of ****ing story 

webber is the only one who might be classed as a PF and if thats your argument then i`ll toss tim duncan into the list too 

Typical alphaorange,you made a big statement,got completly disproved and then come up with a ****ty reply like "half of them are PF`s" 

Everybody who reads this thread can see you just got pwned so suck it up and move on


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