# ESPN Trade Rumor: Pau Gasol for...



## DaRizzle

Just heard it on whatever radio show 710am has going around 10am this "trade rumor" whatever that entails:

Pau Gasol

for 

Kevin Love
2nd pick in draft


I dont know what to think yet. Can we good a decent PG in the draft? Can we trade the pick away and a player for an established PG...

...this is still peculating in my brain.

Thoughts?


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Biters!!! I called that **** this past Wednesday!!


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## R-Star

Not a chance. Pau isn't worth that package.


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## sylaw

It would be a decent trade if it were true. Love is a worser defender but a better rebounder. He also has a good outside shot so Bynum can be the main guy in the post. Also a no. 2 pick can get us some much needed youth and athleticism. I don't see a whole lot of downside.


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## Porn Player

That's because the downside is for Minnesota who lose a rising star in Love and a potential stud in Williams at #2. 

Pau is past his best and is only going to get worse. This trade wouldn't turn the Wolves into contenders so why the hell would they give away so much young talent? ...


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Not even if the Wolves throws in Flynn, Webster and Darko to match salaries?? PG, youth, and athleticism problem solved. Rubio is coming over so Flynn won't be missed. Darko would be a solid back up center and Webster would give us another athlete that can play 2/3. If Irving drops to number 2 we have our pg of the future. If we take Williams I'm sure he can be packaged for a trade to bring in another quality player. 

Flip Bynum, Webster and Williams for Dwight?? 

It definitely an interesting rumor to speculate about.


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## R-Star

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Not even if the Wolves throws in Flynn, Webster and Darko to match salaries?? PG, youth, and athleticism problem solved. Rubio is coming over so Flynn won't be missed. Darko would be a solid back up center and Webster would give us another athlete that can play 2/3. If Irving drops to number 2 we have our pg of the future. If we take Williams I'm sure he can be packaged for a trade to bring in another quality player.
> 
> Flip Bynum, Webster and Williams for Dwight??
> 
> It definitely an interesting rumor to speculate about.


It has 0 chance of happening.


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## BlakeJesus

No way I would do that if I'm Minny.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

R-Star said:


> It has 0 chance of happening.


Kahn.... 

Nuff said.


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## MojoPin

Thats definately a trade that you do. Make it happen Mitch. L.A is the obvious winner, but Minnesota then has a tandem of Rubio-Gasol. Gasol helps Rubio make a smooth transition from Euroleague to NBA life, and also provides a quasi-star for the franchise to be based around. The #2 spot in a weak draft doesnt hold much value and Love will never be a player on Gasol's level. It really isn't that bad of a trade for either teams. L.A still has more to gain though.


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## BlakeJesus

You don't trade the best rebounder in the league and the number 2 pick for a guy who turns 31 in like three weeks and has a poor history of staying committed to being the number one option on a bad team.

That's not a package you make for a second fiddle unless it's what's about to put you over the top, and the Wolves are a long ways away from topping out.


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## MojoPin

GregOden said:


> You don't trade the best rebounder in the league and the number 2 pick for a guy who turns 31 in like three weeks and has a poor history of staying committed to being the number one option on a bad team.
> 
> That's not a package you make for a second fiddle unless it's what's about to put you over the top, and the Wolves are a long ways away from topping out.


One thing we must consider: will Kevin Love re-sign with the Twolves? What is the status of his extension? I havent heard anything.


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## BlakeJesus

Doesn't really matter, you can still find a better package for the kid than Pau Gasol. Trust me, there won't be a shortage of teams going after K Love. Not only is he immensely talented, but he's a super personable guy. Really easy sell to any fanbase.


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## ceejaynj

Interesting opportunity for us...if it is true.


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## HB

How does this make the Lakers better?


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## Diable

This doesn't look like a good trade for either team to me. If it got either team anywhere then it might make sense, but it just make Minnesota older and the Lakers younger. Does not give either a particularly stronger team. I would like it personally if it made the Lakers the team that gives the league's number one statpadder a max contract. That would be hilarious.


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## roux

No way Minnesota does this.. hell i have heard Bogut and the 10 for just the #2 as a rumor.. no way gasol at this point is worth Love and the #2.. this **** is ridiculous


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## Pinball

Diable said:


> This doesn't look like a good trade for either team to me. If it got either team anywhere then it might make sense, but it just make Minnesota older and the Lakers younger. Does not give either a particularly stronger team. I would like it personally if it made the Lakers the team that gives the league's number one statpadder a max contract. That would be hilarious.


Yeah I'm not a huge fan of Love either. David Lee put up fairly similar stats compared to Love last year on the Knicks but no one was hyping him up as the next big thing. Love is an excellent rebounder, a solid scorer, and an awful defender. If that screams out superstar to you then this league has gone to ****. That 20 points per game would mean more to me if he didn't shoot a guard-like percentage while doing it.


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## Jamel Irief

HB said:


> How does this make the Lakers better?


I was thinking the same thing. They would probably use the pick on a 19 year old PG. A worse power forward and a teenager running the point is going to put us in the finals?


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## Pay Ton

Honestly, this is a bad trade for both teams, which I guess makes it fair, but still...crappy.

For the Lakers, it's a lateral move. Love is a talented rebounder, but he's not not a competent defender. He's not as talented a scorer as Gasol. Kobe's playmaking will definitely help his offense, but when it comes to natural ability, scoring-wise, his points will come harder than they did with Gasol.

I think Love will help them in certain areas, but not overwhelmingly so. He's not going to make them better, but he shouldn't make them worse.

And for the Wolves, well they just get an older Gasol to lead their team, and really, you don't want Pau Gasol as the leader of your team.


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## M.V.W.

Nah, Gasol and Love need to stay put.



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Not even if the Wolves throws in Flynn, Webster and Darko to match salaries?? PG, youth, and athleticism problem solved. Rubio is coming over so Flynn won't be missed. Darko would be a solid back up center and Webster would give us another athlete that can play 2/3. If Irving drops to number 2 we have our pg of the future. If we take Williams I'm sure he can be packaged for a trade to bring in another quality player.
> 
> *Flip Bynum, Webster and Williams for Dwight??*
> 
> It definitely an interesting rumor to speculate about.


Interesting!


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## TheAnswer

I don't think Minnesota would make that dumb of a move to trade away a guy who had averaged 20 and 15 for a soon to be 31 year old who averaged 19 and 10.


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## Jamel Irief

TheAnswer said:


> I don't think Minnesota would make that dumb of a move to trade away a guy who had averaged 20 and 15 for a soon to be 31 year old who averaged 19 and 10.


So you consider Love the best power forward in the NBA???


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> So you consider Love the best power forward in the NBA???


Where exactly did he say that?


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> Where exactly did he say that?


He didn't. But he seems to only base opinions on stats.


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## Adam

Jamel Irief said:


> So you consider Love the best power forward in the NBA???


You think Gasol is the best power forward in the NBA?


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## Mr.Bob Dobalina

No way i do this


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> He didn't. But he seems to only base opinions on stats.


When people don't like the stats being put out they always say that. "There's more to the game than stats!"

Sure there is. Unless the stats make your player look better. Then it isn't a problem. 

As far as this trade, Laker fans are going to have to look to the future at some point in time. A lot of you are honestly expecting Kobe to come back and be better next year than he was this season. Not much chance of that happening. At this point in time I don't see how Love is a big step below Gasol, and you get the 2nd overall pick to build around with Bynum for the future. 

This is a great trade for the Lakers, unless you actually think the Lakers are a front runner next year. If so you keep Gasol and hope he gets over his meltdown, and cross your fingers that Kobe finds the fountain of youth.

If I'm the Lakers, I do this trade. But its not on the table.


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## jazzy1

This would basically bring 2 non experienced non winners to a team with other winners. 

Love is rotten defensively , adding Williams who's gonna be another terrible defender takes away the identity of the team and create some new mis matched chemistry problem having squad. 

and if Bynum went down its a wrap because Kobe wouldn't trust anyone but LO and would gradually chew Love's lazy defense playing ass out.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Im not looking at the trade as simply a Gasol for Love swap. This trade gives us a young Allstar caliber PF (albeit not as good as Pau) but it does more than just that. The number 2 pick is big trading chip that can be used to bring Dwight to LA. I think a package of Bynum and Williams/Irving along with a 1st rounder and few 2nd rounders would be enough for Orlando to pull the trigger on the trade. Hell i wouldnt even mind taking on one of Orlando's big contracts (Arenas, Hedo, Redick) to get it done. For Minnesota to do the trade they'd have to throw in a bunch of other players just to match salaries. Players like Darko or Webster or Flynn could be used to bolster our weak bench. 

Dwight Darko
Love Lamar
Artest Barnes Hedo?
Kobe Redick/ Arenas??
Flynn Blake Fisher

But like someone said before, Minnesota would have to gut their roster to get do this and i dont see why they would.


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> When people don't like the stats being put out they always say that. "There's more to the game than stats!"
> 
> Sure there is. Unless the stats make your player look better. Then it isn't a problem.
> 
> As far as this trade, Laker fans are going to have to look to the future at some point in time. A lot of you are honestly expecting Kobe to come back and be better next year than he was this season. Not much chance of that happening. At this point in time I don't see how Love is a big step below Gasol, and you get the 2nd overall pick to build around with Bynum for the future.
> 
> This is a great trade for the Lakers, unless you actually think the Lakers are a front runner next year. If so you keep Gasol and hope he gets over his meltdown, and cross your fingers that Kobe finds the fountain of youth.
> 
> If I'm the Lakers, I do this trade. But its not on the table.


Show me ONE time I've used stats to make my argument in 9 years here.

Forget Gasol, If you go by stats Kevin Love is the best power forward in the NBA. So for you to base this trade on stats than you would trade every power forward in the league for Love because of his points, rebounds and age.

And who doesn't think the Lakers are front runners next year? Didn't Vegas just give them the second best odds at winning the 2012 title?


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## Jamel Irief

Adam said:


> You think Gasol is the best power forward in the NBA?


Dirk is the best (although he can't put up 21 points and 15 rebounds!). After that I would go with Pau, Amare, Griffin and Aldridge in that order. I don't consider Love top 5. 

Things might change next year.


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> Show me ONE time I've used stats to make my argument in 9 years here.
> 
> Forget Gasol, If you go by stats Kevin Love is the best power forward in the NBA. So for you to base this trade on stats than you would trade every power forward in the league for Love because of his points, rebounds and age.
> 
> And who doesn't think the Lakers are front runners next year? Didn't Vegas just give them the second best odds at winning the 2012 title?


You just used stats like 3 days ago to say that Derek Fisher was super awesome.

And who doesn't think the Lakers are front runners next year? Me. Kobes on a slow road downhill. I'm not a Laker or Kobe hater, but I am a realist. You could see at times these playoffs that Kobe didn't have the magic in the tank that he used to be able to call on. Not to mention Phil is gone, and Gasol looked broken near the end. Oh, and Andrew Bynum _will_ be injured.

I expect the Lakers to contend. But front runners? No.


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> Dirk is the best (although he can't put up 21 points and 15 rebounds!). After that I would go with Pau, Amare, Griffin and Aldridge in that order. I don't consider Love top 5.
> 
> Things might change next year.


If you think Pau is the 2nd best power forward in the league then its pretty clear you're ridiculously bias here.


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> You just used stats like 3 days ago to say that Derek Fisher was super awesome.


Is this a joke?


> And who doesn't think the Lakers are front runners next year? Me. Kobes on a slow road downhill. I'm not a Laker or Kobe hater, but I am a realist. You could see at times these playoffs that Kobe didn't have the magic in the tank that he used to be able to call on. Not to mention Phil is gone, and Gasol looked broken near the end. Oh, and Andrew Bynum _will_ be injured.
> 
> I expect the Lakers to contend. But front runners? No.


I didn't know but front runners you meant the favorites, I just thought you meant strong contenders.


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> If you think Pau is the 2nd best power forward in the league then its pretty clear you're ridiculously bias here.


*sigh* Is this like where you labeled me as some Andrew Bynum homer?

I think most coaches and GM's would have him in the top 3. Matter of fact last summer he was ranked exactly where I put him. Who do you think is better to the point where I am bias? Or are you one of those people that overract due to playoff performances every year?


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> *sigh* Is this like where you labeled me as some Andrew Bynum homer?
> 
> I think most coaches and GM's would have him in the top 3. Matter of fact last summer he was ranked exactly where I put him. Who do you think is better to the point where I am bias? Or are you one of those people that overract due to playoff performances every year?


Not overreacting to his playoff performance, in fact I was probably his biggest defender since a lot of posters tried to scape goat him. It was showing none the less though. I don't expect the same sort of pathetic play this season, but I do think he's taken a step or two backwards at this point, and Kobe isn't going to be able to pull him along like he used to.


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> Is this a joke?


I don't know Jamel, is it? Use your ****ing head.


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## Luke

Porn Player said:


> That's because the downside is for Minnesota who lose a rising star in Love and a potential stud in Williams at #2.
> 
> Pau is past his best and is only going to get worse. This trade wouldn't turn the Wolves into contenders so why the hell would they give away so much young talent? ...


Who is the rising star? Kevin Love? Dude is a role player and will never, ever, be the best player on a championship team. Period. You can't anchor a defense around him and he won't be able to be the main scoring option. What he's good at is rebounding, streching the floor, and ball movement. The fact that he was an allstar was an absolute joke.

Potential stud? We are talking about the same tweener right? If by stud you mean a guy that has a chance to sneak into an allstar game or two at some point down the road then maybe, but he certainly won't be an elite player in this league.

That being said I pull the trigger if I'm the Lakers. Pau is soft, but more importantly we get some much needed youth into this line up, and we could probably ask for Flynn or trade Williams for some young PG. This is the kind of retooling that the Lakers needed. Hopefully it happens.


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## Porn Player

VanillaPrice said:


> Who is the rising star? Kevin Love? Dude is a role player and will never, ever, be the best player on a championship team. Period. You can't anchor a defense around him and he won't be able to be the main scoring option. What he's good at is rebounding, streching the floor, and ball movement. The fact that he was an allstar was an absolute joke.
> 
> Potential stud? We are talking about the same tweener right? If by stud you mean a guy that has a chance to sneak into an allstar game or two at some point down the road then maybe, but he certainly won't be an elite player in this league.
> 
> That being said I pull the trigger if I'm the Lakers. Pau is soft, but more importantly we get some much needed youth into this line up, and we could probably ask for Flynn or trade Williams for some young PG. This is the kind of retooling that the Lakers needed. Hopefully it happens.


:laugh:

What a joke. You trash both the players and then say you would do it and you go as far to say as you 'hope' it happens. 

Kevin Love didn't just put up some of the most eye boggling numbers in quite some time? 'Cos I'm pretty sure he did and I'm pretty sure he fits into the 'rising star' category. He's only been in the league a moment and playing with some pretty terrible players, you can't tell me anything about how he would perform elsewhere. He could easily win a championship in his career, he might not carry a team to 60+ wins but not many players can do that in this league (see: LeBron James) ... Can I see Love on a contender team? Ofcourse I bloody could. His numbers might have been inflated but he was still playing against NBA teams everynight, he earned every stat he accumalated this year. 

Same goes for Williams. You have never EVER seen him play in the NBA. You aren't a respected scout, you're a kid on a message board acting like the messiah of all things basketball related. Of course DW is a potential stud, if he wasn't, he wouldn't be the consensus number 2 pick. He looks like a sane, better and winning version of Beasley, how can that not excite you?


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## Luke

Porn Player said:


> :laugh:
> 
> What a joke. You trash both the players and then say you would do it and you go as far to say as you 'hope' it happens.
> 
> Kevin Love didn't just put up some of the most eye boggling numbers in quite some time? 'Cos I'm pretty sure he did and I'm pretty sure he fits into the 'rising star' category. He's only been in the league a moment and playing with some pretty terrible players, you can't tell me anything about how he would perform elsewhere. He could easily win a championship in his career, he might not carry a team to 60+ wins but not many players can do that in this league (see: LeBron James) ... Can I see Love on a contender team? Ofcourse I bloody could. His numbers might have been inflated but he was still playing against NBA teams everynight, he earned every stat he accumalated this year.
> 
> Same goes for Williams. You have never EVER seen him play in the NBA. You aren't a respected scout, you're a kid on a message board acting like the messiah of all things basketball related. Of course DW is a potential stud, if he wasn't, he wouldn't be the consensus number 2 pick. He looks like a sane, better and winning version of Beasley, how can that not excite you?


I didn't trash anybody. I'm actually a big fan of Kevin Love the player, he was my guy at UCLA. What I don't like is unrealistic hype, and that's something that he has far too much of.

I have a theory on stats and people who use them as the end all, you can pretty much group them into two catagorys -

1.) Nerds who love numbers

2.) People who can't comprehend what they are watching on the screen and need a boxscore to help them sound smart.

Statistics say that Kevin Love was the fourth best player in the NBA today. If that isn't a red flag then you clearly fall under the second catagory. He's not a top fifteen player and I could name five better players at his position without doubt. He's a role player. A damn good role player (hence why I want him on my team) but a complimentary guy nonetheless.

I could see him on a contending team as well, but as the third or fourth best player on the team. He sure as hell doesn't have the capability to lead anything, and the fact that the TWolves have won what? 20% of their games since he joined ship? Say what you want about supporting casts sucking or whatever, but an elite player doesn't lead their team to the worst record in the league, it just doesn't happen. And he's not some 19 year old kid either, he's about to enter his fourth year in the league and he's going on 24. He's not overly athletic and relies on smarts and skills more than anything else, long story short, he's not getting any better.

Show me a scernerio in which Love is the best player on a team that wins 50 games and I'll show you a poster that doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

I've seen him play in college and it doesn't take a respected scout to see that he is a tweener who does not play defense. I have no such use for a player like that on my team. The only reason I want him included is because of the fact that there are stupid GMs that will bite on him because he was the second pick.

And the fact that you are using the "consensus number two pick" as a valid point in your argument is more funny than anything else. This year has the "potential" to be the worst draft in a decade. It sucks. I will be pleseantly surprised if one player sniffs an allstar bid from this class, let alone if anyone (Williams included) becomes a "stud". I just don't see it happening.

Oh, and Michael Beasely sucks. His attitude issues are overblown to try and hide the fact that he simply isn't an overly impressive basketball player. Period.


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## Jamel Irief

If the Lakers were to do this trade, why the hell would they want Derrick Williams?


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## Luke

Trade bait.


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## Jamel Irief

VanillaPrice said:


> Trade bait.


So they want to make a trade to make another trade?


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## Luke

Jamel Irief said:


> So they want to make a trade to make another trade?


The original trade gives us a (younger) replacement at the four, and possibly a lead guard in Flynn. If Flynn isn't included than I'd like to see Williams shipped for a young quick point guard and a rotation big, think Aaron Brooks + Robin Lopez.

We adress the main problem on our roster (cough Fisher cough) and get younger. It's the ideal retooling that doesn't include Dwight Howard.


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## Porn Player

VanillaPrice said:


> I didn't trash anybody. I'm actually a big fan of Kevin Love the player, he was my guy at UCLA. What I don't like is unrealistic hype, and that's something that he has far too much of.
> 
> I have a theory on stats and people who use them as the end all, you can pretty much group them into two catagorys -
> 
> 1.) Nerds who love numbers
> 
> 2.) People who can't comprehend what they are watching on the screen and need a boxscore to help them sound smart..


Yawn. Unrealistic hype? I said Kevin Love was a 'rising star'. You have said nothing and shown me nothing to prove otherwise. 

I didn't use any stats, I didn't need too, everyone knows he had a huge year. 




> Statistics say that Kevin Love was the fourth best player in the NBA today. If that isn't a red flag then you clearly fall under the second catagory. He's not a top fifteen player and I could name five better players at his position without doubt. He's a role player. A damn good role player (hence why I want him on my team) but a complimentary guy nonetheless.


Boy. You really do just go off on a tangent and think it makes your point valid. I never eluded to Kevin Love being the 4th best guy in the NBA. What I did say was that he still put up some amazing numbers, and role players don't do that. Just because he isn't a Top 15 player doesn't instantly make him a role player. 



> I could see him on a contending team as well, but as the third or fourth best player on the team. He sure as hell doesn't have the capability to lead anything, and the fact that the TWolves have won what? 20% of their games since he joined ship? Say what you want about supporting casts sucking or whatever, but an elite player doesn't lead their team to the worst record in the league, it just doesn't happen. And he's not some 19 year old kid either, he's about to enter his fourth year in the league and he's going on 24. He's not overly athletic and relies on smarts and skills more than anything else, long story short, he's not getting any better


.

:laugh: 

You really do believe your own bull**** don't you? ... He's not getting any better because he's already 24? Did he not just have a season where he made pretty huge leaps and bounds? But I guess you're right, he was 23 last year and that must be the final year to improve as a ball player. 

Oh and again. I never said the kid was elite. I called him a 'rising star'. If you don't think he is a rising star, who do you think are? 



> Show me a scernerio in which Love is the best player on a team that wins 50 games and I'll show you a poster that doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.


Again. Making ridiculous theories to try and validate your argument. 



> I've seen him play in college and it doesn't take a respected scout to see that he is a tweener who does not play defense. I have no such use for a player like that on my team. The only reason I want him included is because of the fact that there are stupid GMs that will bite on him because he was the second pick.


What does all this mean? Nothing. It's just garbage. Until Williams has a chance to play in the NBA you don't know squat about him, there is no way around that argument for you. 



> And the fact that you are using the "consensus number two pick" as a valid point in your argument is more funny than anything else. This year has the "potential" to be the worst draft in a decade. It sucks. I will be pleseantly surprised if one player sniffs an allstar bid from this class, let alone if anyone (Williams included) becomes a "stud". I just don't see it happening.


It's funny that I am using respected basketball voices to validate my argument? Explain that one for me please. 

Again, we're back to the so called 'messiah' telling me how I should view a player. It's not going to happen. 



> Oh, and Michael Beasely sucks. His attitude issues are overblown to try and hide the fact that he simply isn't an overly impressive basketball player. Period


No. Just no. You can't fake his terrible ass attitude. Nothing is overblown about him, he is an idiot. He had the tools to be something special but he didn't have the intelligience to go with it. It's that simple.


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## Luke

The phrase "rising star" gives off the impression that one day you believe that he will be a star in this league, and, in the NBA, you need to be a top fifteen or so player so be considered a "star". Kevin Love does not have the potential, nor the ability to become a top fifteen player. It's just not going to happen.

"Kevin Love didn't just put up some of the most eye boggling numbers in quite some time? 'Cos I'm pretty sure he did and I'm pretty sure he fits into the 'rising star' category." Was your main point as to why Kevin Love was a "rising star". You referenced his numbers, and everyone knows that he put up pretty stats on a 17 win squad, hardly a "huge" year.

If you are going to talk about his numbers then why not go all the way and just go by his PER (which ranks him as the fourth best player in '10-'11.)? He is a stud after all, I mean, John Hollinger would sure think so.

What do you think that Love's ceiling is? Just curious.

You said that you could see Love on a contending team and a championship team. That implies that you could see him leading those teams, no? I mean, he is a rising star after all. 

The fact of the matter is that Kevin Love has been in the league for three years and despite statistical improvement every year the TWolves still suck, and show absolutely no signs of getting better with him at the helm. He just led his team to a worse record than ther freaking LeBronless *Cavs*. That does not look like the work of a real player in this league, but I guess that's just my opinion.

It's not a ridiculous theory. If you think that he can be a star in this league then show me a roster that Love could lead to 50+ wins, or even a playoff berth. I could do that with every other star or future star in the NBA, but I sure as hell can't do it with Love.

My post is garabge because Williams can't defend either forward spot? It's garbage because he doesn't have an NBA position or an NBA ready body? No, those are fair observations on Williams' game, it's not my fault that at this point it doesn't look like he is going to have a very promising career.

I never said that Williams wasn't the second best pick, nor did I laugh at the fact that you get your information from "respected basketball voices". I thought it was funny because for whatever reason you think that because a player is the consensus number two pick that they're automatically going to be a good NBA player. You're a Raptors fan, right? Shouldn't you know better after the whole Bargs ordeal? Some drafts are so weak in talent (like this one, and '06 for that matter) that a mediocre prospect can be vaulted to the top of the draft. It's not a difficult concept I'm trying to convey over here big guy.

Thanks for the nickname.

But the thing is, he *doesn't* have the tools, much like Williams. He is a tweener, does not have an NBA body, and is not overly athletic on the NBA level. Both guys will make it in the NBA and have a whatever career, but it doesn't matter if they had Kobe's work ethic, they were never going to be elite players, period.


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## Porn Player

You want a nickname? How about Mr Assumption. I will ignore most of what you wrote because it was utter garbage, however, I will be polite and answer a couple of questions seen as though you gave us all a long post to get through (and trust me, it was an ordeal).

Kevin Love is a rising star in this league. You say he needs to be a Top 15 player to reach that plateau. Please name 15 players younger than Love that you think are better than him? If you can't, this discussion is over and you are wrong. 

As for your Bargs comment... Yes I am a Raptors fan and yes I thought Bargnani was a 'potential stud' ... and here is the kicker, I did so because he potentially was a stud. He never developed in the way my franchise wanted, that doesn't mean he didn't have the chance to be something special. That is my point, any Top 2 pick has the chance at being special, that is why they are considered better than the other 58 kids vying to get in the league. You don't beat out 58 kids your age if you don't have 'potential'. 

I'm not saying DW will be a star in this league. I'm saying he has the tools to be, whether he will maximise them tools, we just don't know. Well you claim to know, but really you don't have a delorean and can't tell me for sure that DW will not become a great player.


----------



## R-Star

Kevin Love is a rising star in this league. To say otherwise is asinine and pretty much utterly laughable. "Hes not a star, his stats are fake...." Really? How many ****ing TWolves games are any of these guys watching to pull the "stats mean nothing, watch the game" card?

And the fact that these same guys are basically writing off the 2nd overall pick in this years draft as a role player is just as pathetic. Are you guys kidding me? And Kevin Love is a role player now according to Vanilla? 

Wow.


----------



## Bogg

Well, I'm late to the party and all, but Pau Gasol makes WAY too much money to make sense for a rebuilding team without any awful contracts. If Minnesota really wants to make Rubio feel comfortable with some familiar faces, trade for Rudy Fernandez at a fraction of what Pau would cost, talent-wise, and offer Marc Gasol a full max contract and dare Memphis to match. Marc would be ludicrously overpaid, but you'd still save around 5 million a year in the process.


----------



## MojoPin

Love's numbers are inflated and there really is no way anyone can say otherwise. Would he put up the same statline on the Lakers, Spurs, etc.? No. He's a great rebounder but he's also a product of his environment. Top 15 in stats, sure. I wouldn't call him a top 15 player though.


----------



## Porn Player

I'd much prefer they just traded us some of their nice young talent so Calderon can be Rubio's mentor.


----------



## Porn Player

MojoPin said:


> Love's numbers are inflated and there really is no way anyone can say otherwise. Would he put up the same statline on the Lakers, Spurs, etc.? No. He's a great rebounder but he's also a product of his environment. Top 15 in stats, sure. I wouldn't call him a top 15 player though.


Uh oh, another Lakers fan that can't read.


----------



## MojoPin

Porn Player said:


> Uh oh, another Lakers fan that can't read.


What exactly makes you think that I was replying to you? Did I quote your message, fine sir? I don't believe I did. Now, who needs to work on their reading comprehension? :laugh:

Keep the unnecessary crap out, broham.


----------



## Porn Player

:laugh:

So who were you writing to? Or was it a random outburst? Do we need to alert the staff that you've broken out again?


----------



## Bogg

I think it's funny that a fairly mild-mannered and polite guy toiling away on a nationally insignificant team has become the second most polarizing player in the league. Who would have guessed?


----------



## Dangermouse Danny

This doesn't make sense for either team. Lakers, despite the recent embarrassment, are a win now team. The T'Wolves are rebuilding and when you're in that position you take the younger guys.


----------



## R-Star

Dangermouse Danny said:


> This doesn't make sense for either team. Lakers, despite the recent embarrassment, are a win now team. The T'Wolves are rebuilding and when you're in that position you take the younger guys.


Scotland is better than England.


----------



## Dangermouse Danny

I agree


----------



## Jamel Irief

Love is already a star. I consider star's to be the level of player that's not quite an all-star, which he already is anyways.

Super-stars (5-10 players?)
All-stars (20-25)
Stars(35-45)

Role players

Scrubs


----------



## Jamel Irief

Porn Player said:


> :laugh:
> 
> So who were you writing to? Or was it a random outburst? Do we need to alert the staff that you've broken out again?


The topic is Kevin Love, he was stating his opinion on Kevin Love. Either you are defensive or you have a great ego to assume something is innocent as that was an outburst towards you.


----------



## sylaw

I'm just glad Porn Player still posts here so we don't have to miss all his quality posts. Keep it up, man!


----------



## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> Love is already a star. I consider star's to be the level of player that's not quite an all-star, which he already is anyways.
> 
> Super-stars (5-10 players?)
> All-stars (20-25)
> Stars(35-45)
> 
> Role players
> 
> Scrubs


I can agree with that. I don't think hes far from All-star caliber though. The whole "hes the man on a ****ty team" approach is getting overblown in this thread. People act as though his points and rebounds are being handed to him on a silver platter.


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

MojoPin said:


> Thats definately a trade that you do. Make it happen Mitch. L.A is the obvious winner, but Minnesota then has a tandem of Rubio-Gasol. Gasol helps Rubio make a smooth transition from Euroleague to NBA life, and also provides a quasi-star for the franchise to be based around. The #2 spot in a weak draft doesnt hold much value and Love will never be a player on Gasol's level. It really isn't that bad of a trade for either teams. L.A still has more to gain though.


Stop trying to sell this on Minny's side. This is one lop sided trade.


----------



## 29380

> UPDATE: Eric Pincus of HOOPSWORLD adds this to the Gasol discussion Monday.
> 
> He reports via sources that the opportunity of this trade to get young talent "would appeal to the Lakers even if that meant Gasol."
> 
> He adds: "Whether Gasol, the proven player, is a better fit than Love isn't really the debate. It's about getting younger and deeper while maintaining the opportunity to win more championships throughout the Kobe Bryant era. Of course that's the Lakers' side of affairs. The Wolves would like Gasol. Do they need Gasol over other options that may come up? Not if the price is too high."
> 
> ---
> 
> From salary cap expert and ESPN contributor Larry **** on Twitter: "Heard there's something to it. Lakers may have offered [Pau] Gasol for [Kevin] Love and the No. 2 draft pick. No indication that Minny even has Love on the table, although the No. 2 can be gotten. Doubt Minny would do Love and No. 2; doubt LA would do Gasol just for the No. 2. Is there a compromise in the middle somewhere?"
> 
> It's been said that Gasol, after Andrew Bynum, is likely the Lakers' best trade chip. And with new acting owner Jim Buss a big fan of Bynum and unlikely to trade him, Gasol becomes the de facto top trade chip for the aging Lakers.
> 
> So while a deal such as this may not see the light of day, it could indicate the Lakers are open to moving Gasol to get some younger talent.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors/_/date/20110620#21983


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Hearing chatter on Twitter about a possible LO for lotto pick swap. Could be the 2 or it could be another pick.


----------



## sylaw

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Hearing chatter on Twitter about a possible LO for lotto pick swap. Could be the 2 or it could be another pick.


No thanks. I may not be a fan of LO but this draft is weak. I wouldn't do it for just any old lottery pick.


----------



## thaKEAF

Awful deal for Minny.


----------



## Dre

I don't know that Love would do that much worse than Odom does. The ball handling dynamic lessens for sure, but Love is a smart passer and you would have to just have a point guard who could run the offense a little better than Fisher and Blake's corpse. Defensively it hurts, but I believe Mike Brown is going to have all the Lakers playing towards solid to good team defense. 

Not to mention with no triangle who knows if Odom would even still be the same level of asset. Odom wasn't even mentioned but he's closer to Love than Gasol. I just say all that to say Love wouldn't be a horrible fit on the Lakers. Not 20-14 or whatever, but a solid 15ish and 10.


----------



## Basel

I think I'd like to keep Gasol for another year. This team still has what it takes to win the championship. I don't think a #2 pick and Kevin Love is going to take us to the Finals.


----------



## Dre

Like Ron said elsewhere what makes you think you can trust him anymore


----------



## Ron

The fact that this trade was floated almost three days ago and hasn't happened means that its probably bull****.

But you never know.


----------



## Kneejoh

Maybe this team right now can't win a championship, but this trade does not push them to contender status. I really am failing to see how the Lakers would get better. As for Pau I really doubt this funk continues, I mean has there ever been a case in the history of the NBA that a player's funk has continued and he's fallen off from such a high status, without attributing it to injury or old age? It's irrational to think that his level of play will continue to be as bad as it was in the playoffs.


----------



## 29380

Ron said:


> The fact that this trade was floated almost three days ago and hasn't happened means that its probably bull****.
> 
> But you never know.


What about the fact the the Lakers have not denied it yet, the Lakers are a team that usually kills bs rumors.


----------



## Luke

Porn Player said:


> You want a nickname? How about Mr Assumption. I will ignore most of what you wrote because it was utter garbage, however, I will be polite and answer a couple of questions seen as though you gave us all a long post to get through (and trust me, it was an ordeal).
> 
> Kevin Love is a rising star in this league. You say he needs to be a Top 15 player to reach that plateau. Please name 15 players younger than Love that you think are better than him? If you can't, this discussion is over and you are wrong.
> 
> As for your Bargs comment... Yes I am a Raptors fan and yes I thought Bargnani was a 'potential stud' ... and here is the kicker, I did so because he potentially was a stud. He never developed in the way my franchise wanted, that doesn't mean he didn't have the chance to be something special. That is my point, any Top 2 pick has the chance at being special, that is why they are considered better than the other 58 kids vying to get in the league. You don't beat out 58 kids your age if you don't have 'potential'.
> 
> I'm not saying DW will be a star in this league. I'm saying he has the tools to be, whether he will maximise them tools, we just don't know. Well you claim to know, but really you don't have a delorean and can't tell me for sure that DW will not become a great player.


Oh geeze two nicknames, you're too much Porn. 

When I don't know what I'm talking about or I realize that I'm in the wrong, I try and pull the "ignore teh garbage!!" card too. It's a fantastic cop out.

"Rising" implies that they are getting better, and if you want 15 players that are better than Love and have not peaked yet, here you go - LeBron James, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Lamarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, Dwight Howard, Steph Curry, Rudy Gay, Monta Ellis, Al Horford, Joahkim Noah, Rajon Rondo, Josh Smith, and John Wall. The oldest of this group is LeBron, and while he's the best player in the league, he hasn't peaked out yet. Love's age isn't the cut off for players that are getting better in the NBA.

And even if I couldn't name 15 players that haven't peaked yet (or 15 younger than Love) that doesn't really mean anything. There isn't always a constant source of young talent in the league equal to the older talent.

Bargs was never, ever, ever, a potenial stud. Ever. Anyone who, at the time of the draft, thought that he would be a great player is an idiot, period. But don't try and paint me as someone who thinks that he is never wrong, I thought that Marvin Williams was going to be a really good player. And I've eaten my crow about that. But Bargs was always going to bust.

The thing that you're struggling with is that Williams is going be the second pick in a *weak* draft. This isn't exactly 2003 all over again here. Or even '08. It sucks, and your beloved "respected analysts" have even admitted this. 

You think that Williams will be a great player because people on the TV say that he's the second best player in the draft. I don't think that Williams will be a stud because he doesn't have a position, an NBA ready body, and didn't show the ability to even play competent defense at the college level. I'm going to go ahead and trust my analysis over yours seeing as I'm using something other than hearsay to form my hypothesis.

Granted you're probably going to ignore three fourths of my post again so I don't even see why I'm trying, but whatever.

I'm going to go ahead and finish this -

Love has pretty stats, really, really, pretty stats. But from watching him play since his college days, (because I am a fan of the guy) I've always walked away from the TV thinking that he isn't a franchise player, period.

As we all know, Love is a power forward. And to be a franchise level talent at that position, you typically have to excell at one of two areas - scoring (think Amar'e) or defense, (think KG) Love does neither. He is an *awful* defender, and that's evidenced by teams essentially running a layup line against the TWolves for three years, and the fact that he simply doesn't have the athletic ability to anchor a defense.

He puts up 20 relatively inefficient (in comparison to other big men) points. He isn't much of a post up player and scores the vast majority of his points off of jump shots at this point, and as we all know, if your name isn't Dirk that **** isn't going to fly as far as franchise level players go. He can be helpful in an offense, (part of the reason I want him on the Lakers) in that he can help keep the defense honest and stretch the floor, but in all honesty he's realistically a third option on a championship team.

What Kevin does excel at is rebounding. He is a *very* good rebounder. Granted, he wouldn't be grabbing 15 a game on a team with other bigs (such as the Lakers) but he's certainly a force to be reckoned with in that regard. And that's why I call him a role player - he does one thing exceptionally well (rebounding) but doesn't really do anything else very well, and no amount of super sweet numbers on a boxscore is going to change what is blatently obvious to anyone who has ever watched him.

So I guess it goes back to who you consider a "star". If you are like Jamal, and think that the top 35-45 players in the league are "stars" then absolutely, Kevin Love is a star. But in my opinion, only the top 15-20 guys in the league can be considered "stars". And if we're all on that train of thought than I can't see the rationale behind calling Love a star or even a rising star. He's a good player that can help a great team in a complementary role, but he's not leading a team anywhere but the lottery.

Oh, and if it's such an "ordeal" to get through a post on a message board, then why do you post on a basketball message board? For the million post thread? C'mon now. Methinks R-Star junior realized that he didn't know what he was talking about so he resorted to calling my post garbage and an ordeal, instead of debating the content that was actually in the post.


----------



## R-Star

Newsflash skippy, even in a weak draft, the #2 pick has a good chance of becoming an allstar. Do you even understand what they mean by "weak draft"? They mean outside of the first pick there's no superstar type player, and that its not a deep draft. 

You saying its a weak draft and playing it off like the #2 pick isn't worth much shows so much ignorance its not even funny.


----------



## Diable

SF is one of the deepest positions in the NBA, and the fact is that Derrick Williams is not a very fluid players. He is not the mechanical man, but he is quite mechanical in his movement. The likelihood of Williams being an All Star is much lower than the likelihood that he will be a bust. In most years he'd be a top ten type of player in a draft. From what I understand he might barely make it in the lottery next year. 

Now Kanter is a huge question mark, and I would assume that if the Lakers got the #2 pick Kanter is a big possibility, as he already is. In fact Williams really is not the consensus #2 pick, he is just expected to be in the mix with a couple of other guys. There is a long history in the NBA draft of teams opting to swing for the fences with guys like Kanter rather than going with a player like Derrick Williams who has a very limited upside. After Irving the top five look like a crap shoot to me.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> Newsflash skippy, even in a weak draft, the #2 pick has a good chance of becoming an allstar. Do you even understand what they mean by "weak draft"? They mean outside of the first pick there's no superstar type player, and that its not a deep draft.
> 
> You saying its a weak draft and playing it off like the #2 pick isn't worth much shows so much ignorance its not even funny.


That really hurts coming from the guy who doesn't watch basketball in the first place.

That's simply false on essentially every level. This draft doesn't really sport *any* stars whatsoever, and that's evidenced by the fact that the consensus number one pick is a point guard that played in all of eight college games. This draft sucks from top to bottom, period.

Obviously the number two pick means *something*. And that's why I want the Lakers to have it. It doesn't matter that the consensus number two pick is essentially Michael Beasely part deuce, the fact that he has the number two overall pick label means that some GM will be dumb enough to send us something of value for him.

And let me get this straight, I don't think that Williams, or Irving for that matter, will suck. I just don't see them being top five players at their respective positions, and I would be pleseantly surprised if either of them made an allstar team. I don't dislike these guys, I'm just not very high on them because they haven't done anything to impress me.

But again, I'm talking to someone who doesn't watch the NBA in the first place, much less college ball.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> That really hurts coming from the guy who doesn't watch basketball in the first place.
> 
> That's simply false on essentially every level. This draft doesn't really sport *any* stars whatsoever, and that's evidenced by the fact that the consensus number one pick is a point guard that played in all of eight college games. This draft sucks from top to bottom, period.
> 
> Obviously the number two pick means *something*. And that's why I want the Lakers to have it. It doesn't matter that the consensus number two pick is essentially Michael Beasely part deuce, the fact that he has the number two overall pick label means that some GM will be dumb enough to send us something of value for him.
> 
> And let me get this straight, I don't think that Williams, or Irving for that matter, will suck. I just don't see them being top five players at their respective positions, and I would be pleseantly surprised if either of them made an allstar team. I don't dislike these guys, I'm just not very high on them because they haven't done anything to impress me.
> 
> But again, I'm talking to someone who doesn't watch the NBA in the first place, much less college ball.


I don't watch basketball because why? You say so?

I was probably in the top 20 for posts in playoff threads this year, nice try though Allison. Your basketball knowledge, as per usual, is lacking. 

Explain to me again how Kevin Love is a role player, because you moved away quite quickly from that when I called you on it, but haven't wanted to explain yourself.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> I don't watch basketball because why? You say so?
> 
> I was probably in the top 20 for posts in playoff threads this year, nice try though Allison. Your basketball knowledge, as per usual, is lacking.
> 
> Explain to me again how Kevin Love is a role player, because you moved away quite quickly from that when I called you on it, but haven't wanted to explain yourself.


You've said that. Numerous times.

Good for you. And I don't know what I'm talking about as usual? C'mon now. I know you love the whole dickhead shtick, but you're going to have to do better than that.

And I did adress the Kevin Love being a role player thing, try and check, you know, the longest post in the thread.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> You've said that. Numerous times.
> 
> Good for you. And I don't know what I'm talking about as usual? C'mon now. I know you love the whole dickhead shtick, but you're going to have to do better than that.
> 
> And I did adress the Kevin Love being a role player thing, try and check, you know, the longest post in the thread.


I'm not going back and reading some short novel of a post that was directed towards Porn Player. You will post on the subject again and in point form.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> I'm not going back and reading some short novel of a post that was directed towards Porn Player. You will post on the subject again and in point form.


Red Deer wouldn't happen to be in Nova Scotia would it? I have family there and Nova Scotia is the ****.

And if it helps, only the second half of the "short novel" is talking about Kevin Love and why he is a role player. Hopefully R-Star can handle it.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> Red Deer wouldn't happen to be in Nova Scotia would it? I have family there and Nova Scotia is the ****.
> 
> And if it helps, only the second half of the "short novel" is talking about Kevin Love and why he is a role player. Hopefully R-Star can handle it.


Red Deer is in Alberta. 

You will tell me your thoughts on Kevin Love and why his stats are fake.


----------



## Luke

I'll pretend to know where that is. And here's the cropped version -

Love has pretty stats, really, really, pretty stats. But from watching him play since his college days, (because I am a fan of the guy) I've always walked away from the TV thinking that he isn't a franchise player, period.

As we all know, Love is a power forward. And to be a franchise level talent at that position, you typically have to excell at one of two areas - scoring (think Amar'e) or defense, (think KG) Love does neither. He is an awful defender, and that's evidenced by teams essentially running a layup line against the TWolves for three years, and the fact that he simply doesn't have the athletic ability to anchor a defense.

He puts up 20 relatively inefficient (in comparison to other big men) points. He isn't much of a post up player and scores the vast majority of his points off of jump shots at this point, and as we all know, if your name isn't Dirk that **** isn't going to fly as far as franchise level players go. He can be helpful in an offense, (part of the reason I want him on the Lakers) in that he can help keep the defense honest and stretch the floor, but in all honesty he's realistically a third option on a championship team.

What Kevin does excel at is rebounding. He is a very good rebounder. Granted, he wouldn't be grabbing 15 a game on a team with other bigs (such as the Lakers) but he's certainly a force to be reckoned with in that regard. And that's why I call him a role player - he does one thing exceptionally well (rebounding) but doesn't really do anything else very well, and no amount of super sweet numbers on a boxscore is going to change what is blatently obvious to anyone who has ever watched him.

So I guess it goes back to who you consider a "star". If you are like Jamal, and think that the top 35-45 players in the league are "stars" then absolutely, Kevin Love is a star. But in my opinion, only the top 15-20 guys in the league can be considered "stars". And if we're all on that train of thought than I can't see the rationale behind calling Love a star or even a rising star. He's a good player that can help a great team in a complementary role, but he's not leading a team anywhere but the lottery.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

I'm going to choose to believe that the Gasol-to-Minnesota rumor is a complete fabrication, and that the two teams really discussed something much less major, like a Flynn-to-LA deal.

However, if Minnesota offered up Love, Wes Johnson, Webster, Flynn and #20 for Gasol and a couple second rounders then I would seriously consider it. Love would be a consistent 20/10 threat alongside Andrew for the next 10 years, Webster and Johnson are both very good outside shooters, and Flynn and the pick have potential.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> I'll pretend to know where that is. And here's the cropped version -
> 
> Love has pretty stats, really, really, pretty stats. But from watching him play since his college days, (because I am a fan of the guy) I've always walked away from the TV thinking that he isn't a franchise player, period.
> 
> As we all know, Love is a power forward. And to be a franchise level talent at that position, you typically have to excell at one of two areas - scoring (think Amar'e) or defense, (think KG) Love does neither. He is an awful defender, and that's evidenced by teams essentially running a layup line against the TWolves for three years, and the fact that he simply doesn't have the athletic ability to anchor a defense.
> 
> He puts up 20 relatively inefficient (in comparison to other big men) points. He isn't much of a post up player and scores the vast majority of his points off of jump shots at this point, and as we all know, if your name isn't Dirk that **** isn't going to fly as far as franchise level players go. He can be helpful in an offense, (part of the reason I want him on the Lakers) in that he can help keep the defense honest and stretch the floor, but in all honesty he's realistically a third option on a championship team.
> 
> What Kevin does excel at is rebounding. He is a very good rebounder. Granted, he wouldn't be grabbing 15 a game on a team with other bigs (such as the Lakers) but he's certainly a force to be reckoned with in that regard. And that's why I call him a role player - he does one thing exceptionally well (rebounding) but doesn't really do anything else very well, and no amount of super sweet numbers on a boxscore is going to change what is blatently obvious to anyone who has ever watched him.
> 
> So I guess it goes back to who you consider a "star". If you are like Jamal, and think that the top 35-45 players in the league are "stars" then absolutely, Kevin Love is a star. But in my opinion, only the top 15-20 guys in the league can be considered "stars". And if we're all on that train of thought than I can't see the rationale behind calling Love a star or even a rising star. He's a good player that can help a great team in a complementary role, but he's not leading a team anywhere but the lottery.


Everyone keeps making this big deal about how he gets his 20 ppg and its pretty funny. Love makes 6.6 shots a game on 14.1 attempts. Pau on the other hand makes 7.2 on 13.7 shots. So Pau is making .6 more shots a game while shooting .4 less. So basically, if shooting the same amount of shots Pau is hitting 1 more shot a game. 2 points. That's great and all, but I don't see how its damning for Love. 

And the whole "If he played on a team that rebounded....." newsflash, you know what team was #1 in the league in rebounding? Yep, the Wolves. So you can either argue that the team itself rebounds well (it does), or you can say that its just because the have one of, if not the best rebounder in the league. Either way, Love wins. 

Is he a guy you want to be your franchise guy? No. Neither is Gasol though, and at this point in time I'm not even sure Gasol is much better. 

And you compared the #2 pick to Beasley. You do understand that at 22 Beasley is averaging 19 ppg right?


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star and Porn Player. Two dudes that don't watch basketball and come here to make joke posts have certainly shown a whole lot more basketball knowledge than Vanilla Price the self confessed basketball guru. 

Your list of 15 'rising stars' better than Kevin Love is a joke. The fact you don't mention Love in there shows how bias you are AND that was with twisting the parameters after you told everybody Love wouldn't improve 'cos he was now '24'. 

Bargnani didn't have potential to be a star? :laugh: ... He was the most glittering international prospect in a long time. He is 7 foot and shoots the ball like a PG. If he had learnt an ounce of team/help defense, he would be a perennial allstar. He never learnt those things, but he still is a 20+ppg scorer which proves he had some talent.


----------



## Porn Player

VanillaPrice said:


> "Rising" implies that they are getting better, and if you want 15 players that are better than Love and have not peaked yet, here you go - LeBron James, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Lamarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, Dwight Howard, Steph Curry, Rudy Gay, Monta Ellis, Al Horford, Joahkim Noah, Rajon Rondo, Josh Smith, and John Wall. The oldest of this group is LeBron, and while he's the best player in the league, he hasn't peaked out yet. Love's age isn't the cut off for players that are getting better in the NBA.
> 
> And even if I couldn't name 15 players that haven't peaked yet (or 15 younger than Love) that doesn't really mean anything. There isn't always a constant source of young talent in the league equal to the older talent.


So let's break this down one by one - might as well disect how terribly wrong you are. 

1) LeBron James - :laugh: ... You really want to add the leagues best player to the 'rising star' category? He has already risen to the top. He is the consensus (oh there's that word again) number one player in the league right now. 

At 26 and the best player in the league, no, he is not a rising star. Nice try though. 

2) Derrick Rose - MVP, 22yrs old. Yeah, I'll give you that one. 

3) Russell Westbrook - 22yrs old, 3 yrs in the NBA, 22ppg + 8apg. Winning team but also has the bonus of playing along side Kevin Durant. Who's to say Love wouldn't have enjoyed as much success if he hadn't been taken by the Sonics? ... 

4) Kevin Durant - Again, he is already a bonafide star but he is young and has only been in the league one year more than Love so he is definitely able to fit into the rising star category. 

5) Lamarcus Aldrige - Now this is where is starts to get interesting. 25 yrs old, came out in 2006 so has a couple more years experience. He's just had his best year averaging 21/8 after a couple of years where everybody thought he was a potential bust. He has enjoyed success but he was part of a very talented Blazers squad where he was never the 1st option. Really came into his own this year though, which is very weird indeed because I was sure players stopped developing at 24. 

6) Blake Griffin - Pretty numbers on a terrible team. Sounds like a role player to me. I've never seen him anchor a defense nor show any signs of the ability to do so. Yeah, definite role player right? 

7) Dwight Howard - You do realise he has been in this league since 2004 don't you? He has won numerous accolades and is heralded as the 2nd best player in the league. He has risen to the top. You really need to get back to English class and learn the meaning of words. 

8) Stephen Curry - 18ppg/6apg/4rbg. Above average stats on an average team. What makes this guy a rising star that does not include Kevin Love? His team played .439 ball, he never led them to anything despite having a better supporting cast. 

9) Rudy Gay - Been in the league since 2006 and only this past year did he really get many plaudits. That's because he improved his allround game, which is remarkable but he's just about to turn 25. I get the feeling you wish you never made your ridiculous he's '24' argument. Back to Gay, nice player on a nice team. Although didn't the Grizzlies perform just as well or arguably better without him when he went down? ****, this does not look good for my man Vanilla. 

10) Monta Ellis - Really? REALLY? After all the **** you give Love about not getting it done on both ends you choose the guy that is so offensively minded he's never even heard of the word 'Defense'. He does have pretty stats but he has been in the league since 2005 and never won anything (except getting to the playoffs in 2007 the year before Ellis became anything special) ... 

11) Al Horford - Just had his best year at 15/9. Has always played on a team loaded with talent, do you really believe Kevin Love wouldn't have made it to the playoffs on this Hawks squad? ... Not to mention he is yet another guy who is 25. 

12) Joakim Noah - Just had his best year at 12/10. Is a blackhole in games offensively, so far so that the Bulls were benching him in crunchtime come the playoffs. He is 26 years old.

13) Rajon Rondo - He's 25 and been in the league since 2006. He is a supreme talent but he's been blessed with having 3 All Stars playing alongside him. You can't make any comparison because you have no idea how this kid would do being stuck on a bogus team. 

14) Josh Smith - Been in the league since '04 and is 25 years old. He's a fantastic talent but again has had the luck of being surrounded by a lot of talent in ATL. Has also been known to real fade out of games and not dominate them in the way his talent should allow. Averaged 17 and 8 last year. 

15) John Wall - His team played .280% basketball last year. He averaged 16/8/5. I would indeed call him a rising star despite his teams poor showing. 


And finally... 

*Kevin Love - 22 years old (born Sep 7 2008) and came out in the 2008 draft. Just averaged 20/15. TWENTY/FIFTEEN. Shot .470% from the field, .417% from 3pt and .850% from FT line. His team played horrible basketball all year long. You know that kid you've been ragging on througout this thread? Michael Beasley. Well yeah, he was the 2nd best player on that team. Just look at that roster Ellinton, Lazar Hayward, Jonny Flynn, Wesley Johnson, Darko, Pekovic, Randolph, Ridnour, Telfair, Tolliver and Webster. That is not the ingredients for a winning ball club. Kevin Love has had three seasons in the league and not one of them with a great player to play alongside yet somehow he has caught the leagues attention and even got himself an All Star berth. Stick him on any winning franchise that is loaded with talent and he would win. There have been a TON of terrible franchises in the history of this league, and nobody has shone like Kevin Love did for the TWolves this past year. He belongs in the bracket with Griffin and Wall for now, just under Rose, Durant and Westbrook (although Westbrook is arguable)*


----------



## Luke

So what are you trying to say? That you would take Love as your franchise guy? You honestly think that you can build a contender around him? All you've really done is try and counter my points and not really bring anything new to the table instead of 20/15. *Why* would you pick him if you had the pick to start a franchise when he can't anchor an offense or a defense.

He is a great rebounder. That is his role. Therefore, he is a role player. He can't have an offense run through him or anchor a defense to the point where it would be beneficial to the team, and after however many posts you've yet to adress that.

But whatever; if this doesn't happen I'll just sit back and laugh when the TWolves fail to win 20 games again with KLove at the helm.

EDIT: Oh, and just because LeBron is the best player in the league doesn't mean that he's peaked out. If his abilities are still *rising* then he is still a *rising star*. It doesn't matter if he's the best player or the worst player in the league, as long as he's improving. He's still eligable.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> So what are you trying to say? That you would take Love as your franchise guy? You honestly think that you can build a contender around him? All you've really done is try and counter my points and not really bring anything new to the table instead of 20/15. *Why* would you pick him if you had the pick to start a franchise when he can't anchor an offense or a defense.
> 
> He is a great rebounder. That is his role. Therefore, he is a role player. He can't have an offense run through him or anchor a defense to the point where it would be beneficial to the team, and after however many posts you've yet to adress that.
> 
> But whatever; if this doesn't happen I'll just sit back and laugh when the TWolves fail to win 20 games again with KLove at the helm.


Who is saying they would want Love as their cornerstone franchise player? Next time you lose an argument, don't try to put words in peoples mouths. 

And again, no, Love is not a role player.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> So what are you trying to say? That you would take Love as your franchise guy? You honestly think that you can build a contender around him? All you've really done is try and counter my points and not really bring anything new to the table instead of 20/15. *Why* would you pick him if you had the pick to start a franchise when he can't anchor an offense or a defense.
> 
> He is a great rebounder. That is his role. Therefore, he is a role player. He can't have an offense run through him or anchor a defense to the point where it would be beneficial to the team, and after however many posts you've yet to adress that.
> 
> But whatever; if this doesn't happen I'll just sit back and laugh when the TWolves fail to win 20 games again with KLove at the helm.
> 
> EDIT: Oh, and just because LeBron is the best player in the league doesn't mean that he's peaked out. If his abilities are still *rising* then he is still a *rising star*. It doesn't matter if he's the best player or the worst player in the league, as long as he's improving. He's still eligable.


And no, Lebron is not a "rising star". You don't just get to use terms all willy nilly. A rising star is an improving young player on the cusp of stardom. Blake Griffin is a rising star. Lebron James is a superstar.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> Who is saying they would want Love as their cornerstone franchise player? Next time you lose an argument, don't try to put words in peoples mouths.
> 
> And again, no, Love is not a role player.


What have you even brought to the argument in the first place? And then what is Kevin Love then, in your humble opinion? Because the way I look at it, he's definitely in the top fifty. Probably in the top forty. And that classifies him, to me, as a role player. Are you sitting here trying to tell me that he's a top twenty guy? Because if so, then you're an idiot.

Next time you decide it's time to talk about basketball on a message board instead of following future and Dre around, make sure you bring something to the table instead of jumping on Porn's side and pretending like this was some type of collab. I don't even agree with him but atleast he's bring something other than "you're wrong!" to the table.


----------



## Jamel Irief

This thread isn't a rising star or a superstar, it's a falling dud.

Vanilla says he would make this trade but yet we are spending countless posts arguing about how good Kevin Love is.


----------



## Porn Player

Vanilla - 

I called Kevin Love a rising star. You laid down the criteria to meet that. Under 24. Top 15 player. I said he met that criteria. You said he did not and then went ahead to change the criteria. 

You then gave a list. Even with your laughable modifications (see: LeBron and Dwight Howard), I took that list apart. 

I have done everything to prove that Kevin Love is a rising star and all you have done is repeat that he is a 'role player', a stance nobody else agrees with. A role player does not average 20/15. How can he be just a rebounder when he gets 20ppg? 

Furthermore, I stated Derrick Williams has the potential to be a star. Again, you have said nothing and shown me nothing (because it is impossible without seeing him in the NBA) to make me believe otherwise.


----------



## Porn Player

VanillaPrice said:


> What have you even brought to the argument in the first place? And then what is Kevin Love then, in your humble opinion? Because the way I look at it, he's definitely in the top fifty. Probably in the top forty. And that classifies him, to me, as a role player. Are you sitting here trying to tell me that he's a top twenty guy? Because if so, then you're an idiot.
> 
> Next time you decide it's time to talk about basketball on a message board instead of following future and Dre around, make sure you bring something to the table instead of jumping on Porn's side and pretending like this was some type of collab. I don't even agree with him but atleast he's bring something other than "you're wrong!" to the table.


You know what's really funny? You attacked both me and R-Star for being basketball duds and not knowing all that much and our only use was in other EBB/Personal Forum threads, yet it is you that is trying to rely on attacking another poster to get your point across.


----------



## Luke

Porn Player said:


> Vanilla -
> 
> I called Kevin Love a rising star. You laid down the criteria to meet that. Under 24. Top 15 player. I said he met that criteria. You said he did not and then went ahead to change the criteria.
> 
> You then gave a list. Even with your laughable modifications (see: LeBron and Dwight Howard), I took that list apart.
> 
> I have done everything to prove that Kevin Love is a rising star and all you have done is repeat that he is a 'role player', a stance nobody else agrees with. A role player does not average 20/15. How can he be just a rebounder when he gets 20ppg?
> 
> Furthermore, I stated Derrick Williams has the potential to be a star. Again, you have said nothing and shown me nothing (because it is impossible without seeing him in the NBA) to make me believe otherwise.
> 
> You came after me and I have tore you apart, not bad for a guy that lives in the 'Million Post Thread'.


You also didn't respond to my post. Try doing that next time and we'll talk about how well you are doing at "taking my posts apart".

You didn't take anything apart aside from the fact that they weren't all under 24. But they are all improving, or *rising* in their abilities on the basketball court. They haven't *peaked* yet. Ages be damned.

And if your whole thesis is that there aren't 15 better players under 24 than Love, then you're right. Good job.

Nobody else agrees with? I've actually seen Diable and Patch say essentially the same exact thing. Did you now read the Kevin Love thread? How about you go bump that and see how I'm in the minority on here and all. Not that it matters but you are just simply incorrect.

You never responded to my analysis of Love's game that I wrote up. He's a great rebounder, and okay scorer, can throw an outlet pass, and is beyond awful defensively at this point.

You can bring up the 20 barometer all you want, but it's not the same 20 that Blake Griffin gets. People don't double Kevin Love because he's not a threat to them. People don't come into Minny with a gameplan to stop Love or to somehow slow him down like they do with an Amar'e, they just run a layup drill and go home with the W. He has the ability to stretch the floor with his jumper and one the Lakers would be a valuable peice on offense, but he will never be able to have a playoff offense run through him.

But let's just throw this whole "rising star" thing out the window, because we both have different ideas of who meets throse qualifications. I've admitted that Love is in the 30-40 range, are you going to sit here and tell me that he's anything better than that?

Do you think that Williams will be an allstar, or a top twenty player in this league?

And one more thing - just for the record, next time you "tear a post apart!" you should probably try and tackle, you know, more than half of said poster's points. Because in this instince, you picked which details you wanted to talk about and now appear to be running away.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> What have you even brought to the argument in the first place? And then what is Kevin Love then, in your humble opinion? Because the way I look at it, he's definitely in the top fifty. Probably in the top forty. And that classifies him, to me, as a role player. Are you sitting here trying to tell me that he's a top twenty guy? Because if so, then you're an idiot.
> 
> Next time you decide it's time to talk about basketball on a message board instead of following future and Dre around, make sure you bring something to the table instead of jumping on Porn's side and pretending like this was some type of collab. I don't even agree with him but atleast he's bring something other than "you're wrong!" to the table.


:laugh:

Actually, I've been serving you your lunch, but continue with the weak semantics.

"Hes top 40. A role player." Are you ****ing kidding me junior? Lets even say hes the 40th best player in the league, you're telling me that in a league of 30 teams, the 40th best player is to be considered a role player?

Wow. Again, you're making a joke of yourself in this thread. Try and play it off any way you'd like it "R-Star doesn't know basketball" "R-Star is mean to dre and future" etc, but you're getting slapped around here and its not because of me, not because of Porn Player, but because you don't know sweet **** all about basketball. 

I ask you to justify the things you've said in this thread, and you cry about it, and then throw a fit because you don't like where the discussion is going. 

Thanks for some early morning laughs Cindy.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Actually, I've been serving you your lunch, but continue with the weak semantics.
> 
> "Hes top 40. A role player." Are you ****ing kidding me junior? Lets even say hes the 40th best player in the league, you're telling me that in a league of 30 teams, the 40th best player is to be considered a role player?
> 
> Wow. Again, you're making a joke of yourself in this thread. Try and play it off any way you'd like it "R-Star doesn't know basketball" "R-Star is mean to dre and future" etc, but you're getting slapped around here and its not because of me, not because of Porn Player, but because you don't know sweet **** all about basketball.
> 
> I ask you to justify the things you've said in this thread, and you cry about it, and then throw a fit because you don't like where the discussion is going.
> 
> Thanks for some early morning laughs Cindy.


Yeah pretty much. He's not an elite player, as in he's not in that LeBron/Dwight catagory of the top players in the league, and he's not a franchise player. Call him a "good starter" then. Role player isn't meant to be an insult. He can fill a role on a championship team, but cannot lead said team, he's a *role* player. Sorry if you don't like the terms but whatever. He's not a top thirty player in the league, and unless you believe he is, then you are agreeing with me.

That really hurts R-Star.

Where am I crying in this thread? You are hiding behind insults because you can't bring anything else to the table. 

Aw man now I'm a girls name according to somebody on a message board. Well damn.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> Yeah pretty much. He's not an elite player, as in he's not in that LeBron/Dwight catagory of the top players in the league, and he's not a franchise player. Call him a "good starter" then. Role player isn't meant to be an insult. He can fill a role on a championship team, but cannot lead said team, he's a *role* player. Sorry if you don't like the terms but whatever. He's not a top thirty player in the league, and unless you believe he is, then you are agreeing with me.
> 
> That really hurts R-Star.
> 
> Where am I crying in this thread? You are hiding behind insults because you can't bring anything else to the table.
> 
> Aw man now I'm a girls name according to somebody on a message board. Well damn.


Again with the slow footed dodge attempts. I already wrote up on how your complaints about Love being inefficient offensively were asinine (1 less shot made per 14 shots than Pau) or that the idea that he would rebound less on a "good rebounding team" even though hes the best rebounder on the best rebounding team in the league is absolutely ridiculous and wreaks of ignorance. 

You decided you didn't want to reply to either of these points. Instead you thought it would be easier to say I haven't posted anything of worth and that anyone outside of the top 30 is a role player, yadda yadda yadda, you keep digging your grave.

Please, feel free to continue. I'm enjoying this.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> Again with the slow footed dodge attempts. I already wrote up on how your complaints about Love being inefficient offensively were asinine (1 less shot made per 14 shots than Pau) or that the idea that he would rebound less on a "good rebounding team" even though hes the best rebounder on the best rebounding team in the league is absolutely ridiculous and wreaks of ignorance.
> 
> You decided you didn't want to reply to either of these points. Instead you thought it would be easier to say I haven't posted anything of worth and that anyone outside of the top 30 is a role player, yadda yadda yadda, you keep digging your grave.
> 
> Please, feel free to continue. I'm enjoying this.


I do love repeating myself - You *cannot* run an offense through Kevin Love and expect to make the playoffs. He scored 20 a game in Minny, (nothing to be scoffed at) but it wasn't the same 20 points that Dwight Howard gets, or Amar'e gets, or Blake Griffin gets. This is where people get lost in numbers, because numbers don't tell you *how* players score. Kevin Love is *never* double teammed, unlike some of the other premire post players in the league, people don't come into Minny trying to slow down the great Kevin Love, they just exploit him defensively and 80 something percent of the time come home with the win.

Kevin can be helpful in an offense because he can help stretch the floor with his jumper and is a fair passer. That's why I want him on the Lakers. He could really help out giving 'Drew (or Howard, hopefully) space to move around and opertate, as well as clear space out for Kobe and whoever the new point guard is. He could be a really nice player on this team.

I wasn't aware that the TWolves were the best rebounding team in the league. I'll take that loss. Granted, that doesn't really dispell anything I've said because, through this entire thread, I've maintained that Love is an absolutely fantastic rebounder. That's his role, that's what he does.

Love is also, however, one of the worst defenders in the league at that position. And that's the main thing stopping him from becoming a franchise player. Problem is, I don't think that he has the athletic ability or desire to ever become a great defender. If he were to come to the Lakers, he could be hidden defensively behind Bynum or Artest or whoever, but as your best player (like he is in Minny) your defense is going to suck, and your team is going to suck.

I've been saying this the entire time - if you think that Love is a "rising star" meaning that if all goes according to plan that he will be a "star" or a franchise level player, then please, show me a roster in which a Kevin Love led team could make the playoffs. I don't think you can, and that's why I see him as a *damn good* complimentary player. He can help his team, but he can't lead his team.


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> I do love repeating myself - You *cannot* run an offense through Kevin Love and expect to make the playoffs. He scored 20 a game in Minny, (nothing to be scoffed at) but it wasn't the same 20 points that Dwight Howard gets, or Amar'e gets, or Blake Griffin gets. This is where people get lost in numbers, because numbers don't tell you *how* players score. Kevin Love is *never* double teammed, unlike some of the other premire post players in the league, people don't come into Minny trying to slow down the great Kevin Love, they just exploit him defensively and 80 something percent of the time come home with the win.
> 
> Kevin can be helpful in an offense because he can help stretch the floor with his jumper and is a fair passer. That's why I want him on the Lakers. He could really help out giving 'Drew (or Howard, hopefully) space to move around and opertate, as well as clear space out for Kobe and whoever the new point guard is. He could be a really nice player on this team.
> 
> I wasn't aware that the TWolves were the best rebounding team in the league. I'll take that loss. Granted, that doesn't really dispell anything I've said because, through this entire thread, I've maintained that Love is an absolutely fantastic rebounder. That's his role, that's what he does.
> 
> Love is also, however, one of the worst defenders in the league at that position. And that's the main thing stopping him from becoming a franchise player. Problem is, I don't think that he has the athletic ability or desire to ever become a great defender. If he were to come to the Lakers, he could be hidden defensively behind Bynum or Artest or whoever, but as your best player (like he is in Minny) your defense is going to suck, and your team is going to suck.
> 
> I've been saying this the entire time - if you think that Love is a "rising star" meaning that if all goes according to plan that he will be a "star" or a franchise level player, then please, show me a roster in which a Kevin Love led team could make the playoffs. I don't think you can, and that's why I see him as a *damn good* complimentary player. He can help his team, but he can't lead his team.


People don't go into Minny trying to slow down Kevin Love? So they don't try to slow down the top scorer on the 10th rated offensive team in the league? No double teams what so ever? 

Again, you're talking out of your ass here. The only thing you've been right about is Love being a terrible defender. Problem is, all of Minny sucks at defense, and Love isn't the type of guy who can anchor your D. You put a prime Ron Artest on Minny and he isn't even going to look that good on D because the help D is **** and everyone is doing that matador. 
You put Kevin Love on a sound defensive team like the Lakers where they already have an anchor in the post, and his defense will improve leaps and bounds. Minnesota plays defense like they're at the allstar game. No one looks good in that system.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> People don't go into Minny trying to slow down Kevin Love? So they don't try to slow down the top scorer on the 10th rated offensive team in the league? No double teams what so ever?
> 
> Again, you're talking out of your ass here. The only thing you've been right about is Love being a terrible defender. Problem is, all of Minny sucks at defense, and Love isn't the type of guy who can anchor your D. You put a prime Ron Artest on Minny and he isn't even going to look that good on D because the help D is **** and everyone is doing that matador.
> You put Kevin Love on a sound defensive team like the Lakers where they already have an anchor in the post, and his defense will improve leaps and bounds. Minnesota plays defense like they're at the allstar game. No one looks good in that system.


They don't. I highly doubt you've ever even watched Love play seeing as he plays on the abysmal TWolves. Hell, I don't even watch him *that* often, but I've been able to catch a fair amount since his days at UCLA and I can tell you that he's not a game plan guy.

They let him shoot his jumpshots on single coverage and take the fact that he scores 20 points on mediocre efficiency. They don't double him because that would create an open look for a teammate and they'll take their chances with the Love-three ball or whatever.

That's different from how, say, Blake Griffin plays. Defenses come into Los Angeles with a gameplan to stop Blake Griffin. They realize that he's dangerous and will light their single coverage up due to being one hell of an athlete with fair enough fundamentals, so they double him. He's a fair enough passer so that he can hit the open man and create something from it. The fact that Griffin is such an explosive scorer helps his teammates score easier because one of them is bound to be open, and Love simply does not bring that same luxery to the TWolves. He's a complimentary guy, not someone who you can run your offense through.

I can see your train of thought, but I don't really think that Love will improve "leaps and bounds". I think that Mike Brown will be able to hide him behind our more than capable big men and stick him somewhere where he won't mess anything up. Kind of like want D'Antoni used to do with Nash.


----------



## Tom

The lakers need someone to take pressure off of Kobe on offense. That should be the main goal they have. It won't happen with Love. The Wolves should see where they go with Love a bit longer before they get rid of him.


----------



## Lynx

Wolves offering their 2nd round pick for Bynum in today's rumor control, generated from Real GM.

Considering how much Buss likes Drew, it has no chance to fly. Unless Kevin Love is the package.


----------



## Tooeasy

You could combine all the words written in the media about Kevin Loves through his entire career up until now and it wouldn't add up to all this. The offseason really brings out the crazy in yall doesnt it???


----------



## MojoPin

Lynx said:


> Wolves offering their 2nd round pick for Bynum in today's rumor control, generated from Real GM.
> 
> Considering how much Buss likes Drew, it has no chance to fly. Unless Kevin Love is the package.


Derrick Williams for Drew? ROFL. Why would someone even propose such stupidity


----------



## Jamel Irief

Is Derrick Williams really a lock at number 2? Why is he going to be a better pro than Knight or Kemba? Hell I liked the footage I saw from that Euro center (not Kanter, the other one) with the soft touch more than anything I've seen from Williams.


----------



## Adam

Jamel Irief said:


> Is Derrick Williams really a lock at number 2? Why is he going to be a better pro than Knight or Kemba? Hell I liked the footage I saw from that Euro center (not Kanter, the other one) with the soft touch more than anything I've seen from Williams.


If they think Williams is better than Bynum then they do the deal. Wouldn't be the first time LA saw potential in a wing player before the draft and decided he was more valuable than their center.

I would trade Bynum for Beasley tbh. Try and snag the #2 in the deal and draft Kemba.

Kemba
Kobe
Beasley
Odom
Pau


----------



## DaRizzle

Beasley is a total head case...worse than Ron


----------



## Adam

You're only a head case when you're on a losing team. If you're a head case and you're winning then you're "driven" or "ruthless" or "eccentric."


----------



## MojoPin

I don't even think Williams is as good as Beasley was, tbh. When Beez was coming out of college he had a monstrous season. Regardless, NO TWEENERS please.


----------



## DaRizzle

Adam said:


> You're only a head case when you're on a losing team. If you're a head case and you're winning then you're "driven" or "ruthless" or "eccentric."


no no no....Ron when on bad teams still cared and tried hard. Beasley is a mental midget....While both could use a mental institution I just get a feeling Beasley will end up in in-patient care one of these days. lol


----------



## Adam

You're not getting it. What they say about you is associated with your wins and losses. That's why Deshawn Stevenson was celebrated last week along with his $5 bill tattoo on his throat.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

We've already seen what playing Pau at the center does...


----------



## Jamel Irief

If the Lakers do get and keep the number 2 I want Kemba. I think he'll have a better career than Irving and Williams.


----------



## sylaw

Jamel Irief said:


> If the Lakers do get and keep the number 2 I want Kemba. I think he'll have a better career than Irving and Williams.


Kemba Walker reminds me too much of a poor man's Iverson/Ben Gordon. I'm totally not sold on him. Give me Irving anyday.


----------



## Jamel Irief

sylaw said:


> Kemba Walker reminds me too much of a poor man's Iverson/Ben Gordon. I'm totally not sold on him. Give me Irving anyday.


Because he was on a team last year where he was FORCED to create?

Also I'm confused, iverson and gordon are two very different players. One is a long range bomber and the other is a lightining quick ball handler.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

That's a pipedream smoked up by Laker fans. Pau isn't worth the #2 OR Love either one. Hell if the Lakers had the #2 and offered it and Pau for Love, I wouldn't do it from the T-Wolves standpoint. Stupidest trade rumor I've heard in years.


----------



## Luke

DaBabyBullz said:


> That's a pipedream smoked up by Laker fans. Pau isn't worth the #2 OR Love either one. Hell if the Lakers had the #2 and offered it and Pau for Love, I wouldn't do it from the T-Wolves standpoint. Stupidest trade rumor I've heard in years.


:laugh: Coming from someone who is still sporting "Just say HELL NO to Kobe".


----------



## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> :laugh: Coming from someone who is still sporting "Just say HELL NO to Kobe".


Yea, you're right, Pau Gasol really _IS_ worth Love and the #2...


----------



## DaRizzle

Now I heard on the radio that some Fox Sports reporter tweeted (paraphrase):
(see below)

Ill look for a link

EDIT:SamAmicoFSO Sam Amico
Lakers media incorrectly reporting that teams calling Lakers about Pau Gasol. It's the other way around. No one in big hurry to help LA.
14 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/samamicofso


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> Yea, you're right, Pau Gasol really _IS_ worth Love and the #2...


Show me where I said that. This trade is still a possibility, but that's only because Kahn is an idiot.

I was laughing at the fact that this guy *still* has a user name title that says "Just say HELL NO to Kobe" after Mr. Bean has won two finals MVPs since the trade rumors with the Bulls.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

No one in a hurry to help LA?

How would trading Gasol help LA? Unless we're getting back Dwight, it wouldn't. Stupid line there by Amico.


----------



## MojoPin

VanillaPrice said:


> Show me where I said that. This trade is still a possibility, but that's only because Kahn is an idiot.
> 
> I was laughing at the fact that this guy *still* has a user name title that says "Just say HELL NO to Kobe" after Mr. Bean has won two finals MVPs since the trade rumors with the Bulls.


Dont waste your time on trolls, man. 

Isn't R-Star the guy who owns a DeLorean and *guaranteed* me that Bynum would be hurt during this years playoffs? lol


----------



## DaBabyBullz

VanillaPrice said:


> :laugh: Coming from someone who is still sporting "Just say HELL NO to Kobe".


I'll say that till the day I die, but I can't figure out how to get rid of it lol.....


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## DaBabyBullz

DaRizzle said:


> Now I heard on the radio that some Fox Sports reporter tweeted (paraphrase):
> (see below)
> 
> Ill look for a link
> 
> EDIT:SamAmicoFSO Sam Amico
> Lakers media incorrectly reporting that teams calling Lakers about Pau Gasol. It's the other way around. No one in big hurry to help LA.
> 14 hours ago
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/samamicofso


Now that sounds a little more accurate.


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## DaRizzle

DaBabyBullz said:


> Now that sounds a little more accurate.


Im sorry but you're ridiculous...you said Pau wasn't even worth the 2nd pick...you're just here to stir the pot


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## Ron

He's either basketball-IQ-stupid or intellectually dishonest.

You figure it out.

Also, credibility is shot. Go back to the Bulls board and find some offense for your team while you are at it.


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## DaBabyBullz

DaRizzle said:


> Im sorry but you're ridiculous...you said Pau wasn't even worth the 2nd pick...you're just here to stir the pot


No, he's not, and no I'm not here to stir the pot. Not for a team like the Wolves. He's 31 years old. They're a young team. Adding a talent like Williams, that fits in with the rest of their talent that is all 20-22 years old (Rubio, Beasley, Love....24 if you count Wes Johnson, even Darko just turned 26 2 days ago) makes a lot more sense. I'm not saying Pau isn't good. I'm saying I wouldn't give up a high pick for a guy his age unless he's a Jordan type. Those big guys usually break down younger too, and 2 of the last 3 seasons he's already missed 15-16 games, so could be starting already.

So does it make much sense to you to give up a 22 year old guy whose averages keep going up every year, and averaged 20 & 15 last year (still improving) for a 31 year old guy that puts up 19 and 9 for his career (and that's the average the last few years as well, so that's what you're going to get, best case)? 

If Derrick Williams is Beasley with perfect intangibles, and more mental toughness, as the "experts" say he is, no way I trade him for a 31 year old. If Beasley's head was screwed on straight and he played harder, he'd be a top 10 player in the league. The talent is there.


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## Bogg

Damian Necronamous said:


> No one in a hurry to help LA?
> 
> How would trading Gasol help LA? Unless we're getting back Dwight, it wouldn't. Stupid line there by Amico.


Gasol makes a ridiculous amount of money. I understand that you're thinking of winning now as helping LA, but getting rid of Gasol's albatross of a contract and picking up a younger star to bridge the gap between Kobe and whatever lies ahead would be huge for LA. I said it at the time and I'll say it again, not making Bynum available for Carmelo Anthony was foolish.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

In hindsight, I'm kinda pissed about the Sasha trade. Gave up a guy that could have given us some shooting for a body that never saw a minute and a first rounder that could have been used on a guy like Nolan Smith.


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## GNG

Ron said:


> He's either basketball-IQ-stupid or intellectually dishonest.
> 
> You figure it out.
> 
> Also, credibility is shot. Go back to the Bulls board and find some offense for your team while you are at it.


I haven't read his posts in this thread, but this is the same guy who a few years ago, in all seriousness, believed that Memphis was in the Eastern Conference.

His credibility isn't just shot, but it was shot, killed, buried and started decomposing circa 2006.


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## DaBabyBullz

Cinco de Mayo said:


> I haven't read his posts in this thread, but this is the same guy who a few years ago, in all seriousness, believed that Memphis was in the Eastern Conference.
> 
> His credibility isn't just shot, but it was shot, killed, buried and started decomposing circa 2006.


And I'm really supposed to care what a couple guys on here think of me? Not a chance.


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## R-Star

VanillaPrice said:


> Show me where I said that. This trade is still a possibility, but that's only because Kahn is an idiot.
> 
> I was laughing at the fact that this guy *still* has a user name title that says "Just say HELL NO to Kobe" after Mr. Bean has won two finals MVPs since the trade rumors with the Bulls.


Hes a Kobe hater. I almost respect it more than old Lebron haters who turned into his biggest fans once he went to the Heat.


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## R-Star

MojoPin said:


> Dont waste your time on trolls, man.
> 
> Isn't R-Star the guy who owns a DeLorean and *guaranteed* me that Bynum would be hurt during this years playoffs? lol


Because Bynum is the picture of health right?

:laugh:


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## R-Star

Ron said:


> He's either basketball-IQ-stupid or intellectually dishonest.
> 
> You figure it out.
> 
> Also, credibility is shot. Go back to the Bulls board and find some offense for your team while you are at it.


The Lakers were a much better team than the Bulls this year?


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## GNG

DaBabyBullz said:


> And I'm really supposed to care what a couple guys on here think of me? Not a chance.


Are you really supposed to have at least a base amount of knowledge about the league you're talking about? Perhaps.


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> Because Bynum is the picture of health right?
> 
> :laugh:


You showed him!


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> You showed him!


Thanks for your very important addition to the thread.


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## elcap15

this is the thread that just keeps on giving


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> Thanks for your very important addition to the thread.


You hijacked this thread a long time ago chief. I wish the archivist was the one that pointed out that rstar predicted a Bynum injury in the playoffs. What a biased hater.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Hes a Kobe hater. I almost respect it more than old Lebron haters who turned into his biggest fans once he went to the Heat.


I can agree with that. There is something to be said about consistency, misguided or not.


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