# O'Neal Wouldn't Have Re-signed If He Knew Thomas Would Be Fired



## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

Aug 28, 4:25 AM (ET) _
By CHRIS SHERIDAN

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) - Jermaine O'Neal would not have re-signed with the Indiana Pacers if he had known they were going to fire Isiah Thomas. 

"I don't know who I would have signed with, but I would not have signed back there. Bottom line," O'Neal said early Thursday at the Tournament of the Americas, where he is competing for the United States in qualifying for the 2004 Olympics. 

Visibly angered and upset by the move to fire Indiana's coach, O'Neal said he'll address the situation with the Pacers' front office next week. He would not answer when asked if he would demand a trade. 

"Am I disappointed? Hell, yeah. I'm extremely disappointed for multiple reasons," O'Neal said. "I was told he would be here before I re-signed." 

"If your boss told you your ace is going to be there for you if you come back, and once you come back not even a month later he's not there, that hurts. That hurts a lot. He was more than a coach to me. He was like a father." 

"Everybody's just extremely surprised. We were geared up to go at this real strong. Now we've got to retool, look at a new system," O'Neal said. "I mean, I don't know if we're really trying to win the championship this year." 

http://sports.iwon.com/news/08282003/v2960.html


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

*Move angers O'Neal*

All-Star says he feels deceived by the Pacers

http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/6/069256-1906-039.html


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

Hopefully he still plays good for us, he feels betrayed so who knows how much he will try.


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## dhook54 (Aug 7, 2003)

I'm not an Indiana fan, but, I love the pro game to such an extent, that I read everything I can. I know, I may anger the legendary Indiana fans. [all respect due] But, Larry Bird has shown absolutely no class in the way he fired Isiah Thomas. Much has been made of their beef which goes back to their playing days. So what.? the Celtics and Pistons were BITTER rivals, were they suppose to be friends? Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen had beef. [remember Rodman shoving Pippen into the metal support?] but they were able to win 3 championships, TOGETHER. Bird just wanted to give his friend the job. Bird stated he is unconcerned, with Carlisle's baggage from Detroit. Does that mean, he's ok with Carlisle talking down to players, disrespecting them, and treating them like they're nothing, without, "his brain" directing them? Larry Bird deserves all the acclaim he's received for his playing career. But, as a person, he's just another, "good old boy" *******!


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

"I don't even know if we're trying to win a championship this year," O'Neal said.

Someone needs to sit Jermaine down and explain something to him:

Isiah Thomas...Rick Carlisle...Isiah _Thomas_...Rick *CARLISLE*....

WHO'S BETTER JERMAINE? POP QUIZ!

This is a terrific move by the Pacers. O'Neal can piss and moan all he wants, but the bottom line is that he's getting $10+ million dollars for the next decade or so, and we can't always play with our friends. So shut the hell up. We're big boys now, with real "jobs," if you want to call them that, and we can't have playtime all day.

Someone needs to explain that to O'Neal and Thomas, Darius and Q, LeBron and John Lucas...we can't all play with our little friends.

I swear these guys have the mentalities of six year olds.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

O'Neal is just covering his behind. Frankly all the guy cares about is stats anyway, not winning so it really shouldn't matter who the coach is in regard to him. I think this team benefits in other places. A coach who won't tolerate Ron Artest antics. Al Harrington finally gets a bonafide spot in the line-up and Jon Bender is finally classified as a bust. Maybe my boy Freddie Jones will get some run too. 

Good move by the Pacers and O'Neal really doesn't care unless it takes away from his shots that's all, why can't anyone see this.


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## ghettorooster (Jul 27, 2003)

you know what, im really starting to not like JO anymore.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I left out one thing. 

I think Jermaine is posturing so if the team doesn't get out of the first round this coming year, he can say it was because they made a change and messed up the chemistry of this team. He seems to like blaming everyone else but himself, for decisions you make.


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## dhook54 (Aug 7, 2003)

Of course it doesn't matter that Carlisle has major attitude problems, huh? We'll se plenty of Austin Croshere, now! Maybe, it is race related? But rascist are the fans. [which I previously doubted]


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> " So shut the hell up. We're big boys now, with real "jobs," if you want to call them that, and we can't have playtime all day.
> 
> Someone needs to explain that to O'Neal and Thomas, Darius and Q, LeBron and John Lucas...we can't all play with our little friends.
> ...



Great, great point. These cats (and many spoiled "artists" and athletes) live in a fantasy world, and really expect EVERYTHING to go their way all the time, or they pout and cry. 

What, does he think he gonna be benched now that Thomas is gone???

I'm not sure what kinda record the Pacers will have this year, but if it is WORSE, it's probably not gonna be because of Carlisle... you best point the finger at not resigning Brad Miller.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

The Pacers just need to weather the storm with O'Neal.

I don't have much evidence besides the way Thomas has always been, but my thoughts are that he sucked up to and wormed his way into O'Neal's had as a "father" because having control over O'Neal gave Isiah job security. It's somewhat of a Machiavellian view, but I think Thomas has always, first and formost been about Thomas. Being "a father" to O'Neal, and probably filling his head with how important Isiah is was all about protecting Isiah's job. O'Neal probably thinks Thomas is gods gift to him and the only reason he can play basketball. And I think Thomas is who encouraged O'Neal to have that view. And I think it was purposefully done by Thomas so he could control O'Neal and in doing so have job security. 

Well, Bird's not going to put up with that ****.

And once O'Neal gets out on the court, and sees that 1) He can still play even without Isiah there and 2) that the rest of the team is happier and functions better, he'll realize just what a snake oil salesman Isiah was in the first place.

of course I could be wrong, but that's my opinion of Isiah and the theory I'm working under.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

I suggested midway through last season that this is exactly what Indiana would do--re-sign all of their key players and THEN fire Isiah.

Jermaine O'Neal can say whatever he wants. The fact is, Isiah was one of the worst head coaches in any sport that I have ever seen at any level (including Little League and junior high) while Rick Carlisle is one of the NBA's top five head coaches. It's a no-brainer, you fire Isiah and hire Carlisle. And it's a no-brainer to wait until you've locked everybody up to longterm deals before you do it.

Also, once Indy takes it to the next level--which they WILL do under Carlisle, and which they would NOT have done under Isiah--O'Neal will stop complaining. Nobody complains about winning. So I wouldn't worry about this if I were a Pacers fan.


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## pavlo11 (Jul 8, 2003)

I agree with most posts that JO should nut it up and go with the flow he is a professional athlete. On the other hand if Bird said Isiah was going to be the coach and lied to JO Bird shouldn't :cthread: where he eats.


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## leeward (Aug 13, 2003)

*Perhaps this could have been handled better*

Perhaps this could have been handled different but IT was not a good coach for many reasons. We have talent that needs to be developed and coached. JO can vent his feelings but then he must pull them up and play ball to the best of his ability. I am sure he will do just that. We should be much better this season.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> "I don't even know if we're trying to win a championship this year," O'Neal said.
> 
> Someone needs to sit Jermaine down and explain something to him:
> ...


My thoughts exactly. He's getting paid 120+ MILLION, what does he have to complain about?


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> My thoughts exactly. He's getting paid 120+ MILLION, what does he have to complain about?


People are making a too big of a deal about this. Who cares? Once his paycheck arrives he will love Carlisle. He will live with it trust me. 

Bob Kravitz from the Indy Star was on espn last night and said O'Neal was the only player who actually wanted IT to stay. 

And i don't buy the "if thomas was fired before i signed, i wouldn't have signed". That's only talk.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Yes J.O. is going to make Millions of Dollars over the next few years, but wouldn't you want to do that somewhere where you weren't duped and lied to. If Isiah was his only reason for signing (and I heard him say before that Indy isn't all that great in terms of living there) and he was told Isiah would be there then Isiah is fired wouldn't you be mad. Bottom line if you were to sign a contract with someone and was made certain promises on the side you want those promises to be fulfilled.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Quit *****in Jermaine, we are a shoe-in for the Finals and will be a top defensive team (if not the best) with Artest, Harrington, O'Neal, and Pollard all solid defenders, and the coach that won 50 games with a team that lacked talent. Carlisle took the same roster Detroit had the year before and won 50 games and they have been the best defensive team over the past two years. 

He says "I would not have resigned if Isiah was not coming back." That's exactly why they didn't tell him and why they waited. No, let's tell him everything and let him go to San Antonio  How stupid does Jermaine think Donnie and Larry are.

This is one of the best moves in Pacers history. To go from the worst coach in the league, to IMO the best is brilliant.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TLR</b>!
> Quit *****in Jermaine, we are a shoe-in for the Finals and will be a top defensive team (if not the best) with Artest, Harrington, O'Neal, and Pollard all solid defenders, and the coach that won 50 games with a team that lacked talent. Carlisle took the same roster Detroit had the year before and won 50 games and they have been the best defensive team over the past two years.
> 
> He says "I would not have resigned if Isiah was not coming back." That's exactly why they didn't tell him and why they waited. No, let's tell him everything and let him go to San Antonio  How stupid does Jermaine think Donnie and Larry are.
> ...


True, if we told Jermaine we we're getting rid of Zeke we most likely wouldn't of kept him, now he is locked in for what like another 7 years? He better still play with the heart he claims he is going to.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

Watch out now, the trade rumors are gonna pick up about JO even they are mainly wishful thinking.


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## dhook54 (Aug 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> My thoughts exactly. He's getting paid 120+ MILLION, what does he have to complain about?


Just because he's getting a tremendous amount of money doesn't mean he shouldn't speak his mind. Some people just kill me with that mess. ["he's gettin x amount of dollars. so, he should]" NBA players create billions in profits for owners, why shouldn't they get paid accordingly? If you made multi-millions for your boss, you'd want to be paid big, too. And, wouldn't anyone be able to tell you how you should talk or act, when not on the job.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I've seen a few people mention in this thread that maybe they will develop their young talent under Carlisle instead of Thomas. I would say good luck on that front. Carlisle is more inclined to play the veterans than the younger guys. Look at Rodney White or Tayshaun Prince as examples. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but I think you will see alot more of Austin Croshere this year, and forget about Fred Jones getting any time.


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

"I'm going to come back, be a professional and play for the Pacers this year, and I'm going to approach this season the same way I approach every season," O'Neal said before leaving for the U.S. game against Puerto Rico. "But outside of this year, I don't know where my future stands with the Indiana Pacers. I don't know where the trust is. I don't know if I can believe anything they tell me anymore."

Asked if he will demand a trade, O'Neal softened a bit, saying he wanted to sit down after next season and discuss his future. But he's lost confidence and faith in Pacers management. And he's not yet sure there's anything that can be done to rebuild that shattered relationship.

"Right now I'm a Pacer and I'm not going to shortcut the fans, my teammates, anybody," O'Neal said. "I'm not going to show up with a chip on my shoulder. And this has nothing at all to do with Rick Carlisle. I'm not going to take any of this out on him. But my word is all I've got in this world, and hopefully everybody else feels that way and acts that way. I've been deceived, and that's a hard thing to swallow."

http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/5/069562-6935-039.html


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## dhook54 (Aug 7, 2003)

As for style of play, Thomas followed a vision rooted in his belief of tough, hard nosed defense, most exemplified in young players like Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal, which, ironically, is a philosophy Larry Bird seemed to
follow as a player himself on a nightly basis for the Boston Celtics.

When compared, their so called "creative differences" are not so different. So why would Larry Bird fire Isiah Thomas without giving him at least the last year of his contract to prove his worth in gold? Could it possibly be
because of ego, or the desire to get "one up" on a former enemy?

Possibly not, but consider this. It is well documented that when Larry Bird handed the reins over to Isiah Thomas as coach of the Indiana Pacers that he walked from the podium with neither a smile nor an affirmative nod of
approval. Although respectful of each other's past accomplishments, Larry Bird rarely depicts Isiah Thomas as a worthy rival who made him better as a player, a designation he often assigns to Magic Johnson. As for Isiah
Thomas, he was a member of a team that bitterly scratched and clawed its way to the top, in the process stepping on the Boston Celtics and sending them on a downward spiral ever since.

There are many reasons why Isiah Thomas is no longer the coach of the Indiana Pacers. Those given thus far are rather cliché and predictable. To imply that the Indiana Pacers were not going in the right direction under Isiah's leadership would be an understatement, and to suggest that personal grudges are determining factors in the decision of one NBA icon to fire another might be ludicrous. But never underestimate the power of ego in the NBA as a determining force in the competition for further greatness.


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## CrimsonShadows (Jun 12, 2003)

What's with all the hating on O'Neal?! He have very right to be upset. We are talking about his future, the man has commited 7 years to this francise because he believed in his coach and his teamates... and was told point blank by the management that his mentor, the man responsible for his success and development is going to be there for him. And then a mere month after he makes that commitment his teacher is fired and that his teamates may be moved. Just on principle I think O'Neal should ask for a trade. I would.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CrimsonShadows</b>!
> What's with all the hating on O'Neal?! He have very right to be upset. We are talking about his future, the man has commited 7 years to this francise because he believed in his coach and his teamates... and was told point blank by the management that his mentor, the man responsible for his success and development is going to be there for him. And then a mere month after he makes that commitment his teacher is fired and that his teamates may be moved. Just on principle I think O'Neal should ask for a trade. I would.


:clap: 

Thank you, the man was str8 up lied to so they could get what they wanted, how can you go to war with someone that will lie to you like that and how can you trust them. His relationship w/ Larry Bird in the Front Office just started and he has been decieved already.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

One thing that I find rather ironic in this Celtics vs. Pistons War (Carlisle dropped like a Bad Habit in Detroit by a former Bad Boy, Zeke like a Bald Headed Step-Child in Indy by a Lepechen Legend), not a one of the players in Detroit came out and showed any disapproval of Carlisle firing, which leaves me to believe his relationship with the players and personnell there were as bad as advertised.

Bird claims that it was "the players" in Indy that let him know that something wasn't right. Hmmm.... Then why is Jermaine O'Neal upset??? What "players" are he talking about? Has Reggie said he had issues with Isaiah? 

I definitely didn't here Ben Wallace say he was upset or even concerned about the effects of the Carlisle firing. If you listen to the public responses from the Detroit players, the quiet untone seemed to suggest that Carlisle had it coming or that it really wasn't much of a surprise that Carlisle was let go. Again, no one was enraged by his firing. No one stood up and stood by him as "their coach" or even began to suggest that he was the reason why they wanted to continue playing for the organization.

It was like, "Damn... Surprising... Oh well, that's the breaks!"
Ahh... Richard Hamilton did willingly sign an extension after Carlisle's firing??? Correct??

I'm not saying that Isaiah was/is a better coach... I dunno know. May depend on your standards and how real your expectations are for a team like the Pacers. ESPN's David Aldridge has a pretty good column where he compares the first round exits of the T-Wolves to the Pacers....

I also think the Bird vs. Thomas success record comparisons are silly. Bird had an infinitely more experience veteran team with well defined roles and otherwise well contructed team with [1] good PG play and [2] a star in his prime (read Reggie Miller) along with up and coming talent.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

I had no problem with Isiah the first two years, he kept us in the playoffs while we were rebuilding, but this last year was unexcuseable. Boston is horrible and we got blown out by them. I don't think any team in the east can beat us this year.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

*QQ*



> Originally posted by <b>TLR</b>!
> I had no problem with Isiah the first two years, he kept us in the playoffs while we were rebuilding,


I didn't have a problem with him the 1st year because i hated Bird and was glad he was gone. He also got us to the playoffs while rebuilding. Thumbs up. The 2nd year we had enugh talent to get the Semis or ECF at least but we were still gone in the 1st round. Thumbs down.



> but this last year was unexcuseable. Boston is horrible and we got blown out by them.


 Yes very true. We should've swept Boston and at least gotten to the ECF maybe the NBA Finals



> I don't think any team in the east can beat us this year.


 Correct:yes: only teams i see better than us this year are the Lakers and Spurs. I don't know what you guys think but i could see this year's pacers at 60+ wins.


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