# U19 World championship



## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

Hey do any of you follow it?

I know Reznor is in Greece now watching the championship, so when he gets back I hope he will write everything about growing stars of the world.

Also there are greeks on this board, so maybe you watch it live or on TV, what are your thoughts?

Personally I'm very glad that Lithuania reached secound round and that they arent in group with other European powers in Croatia, Slovenia and Greece, who at this order fisnished last Eurochamp. We were 4th and lost to all of these countries, but we havent Linas Kleiza, who is rocking now. This year we lost to Croatia again, but it was the first day of championship and we had bad day, especially in 3pt shooting. Later we had good days with bad teams Malaysia (107:39) and Venesuela (108:60), but Venesuela lost to Croatia just 74:75 and after game they were not happy about refs. Now we will face Australia, USA and Puerto Rico. Im afraid just of first one with Andrew Bogut, who is averaging 27 points and 20 rebs. It seems that we have great frontcourt: Kleiza, Jankunas and Silinskis, but they didnt manage to stop Drago Pasalic who had 20 points and 22 rebs, so Bogut could do the same, but this time I hope our guards will have better night. 

USA is only good in dunking into their one basket :grinning: and Puerto Rico should be happy, that they were in easy first round group and had made it to second round.

I believe we can win all 3 games.


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

Can you believe this? No, tell me can you? I was in Greece (in fact in Thessaloniki) up until 2 days before the Championship begun, and I will go back to Thessaloniki just 3 days after it is finished. AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
That's why I haven't mentioned anything about the U-19 WC. It's because I'm trying to forget about it. I had no choice but to leave for those 2 weeks so I'm going to miss the whole tournament.

If you wanna have live coverage of the games, and live stats, you can go to the official site of the tournament, which despite being a greek site, it is actually pretty descent.

http://www.basket.gr/wcj2003/

Enjoy, and don't talk to me about it.....


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

I would rather have seen Greece in the other group with Lithuania, Usa .......
All the games against Croatia and Slovenia will be wars....the game against Turkey should be won easily (gomenes tous exoume.....na tremete skatoflorakia abdalakia....Sas perimeni o trellaras o Vasiliadis)......
We have a crap coach (his selection of players for our NT was awful...as he left out one of our best players)...but still with a little luck I think we can make it to the play offs....
oh and by the way I can't wait for Reznors report.......


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

It is the U20 World Championships or the U19? Cause many of these guys were born in the first half of 1984, so maybe some of them are already 19?

Also, who is this guy Costas VASILIADIS -- he seems to be tearing up the games so far?

Is this guy NBA material in a few years? Can someone describe his game to me?


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

today i`ll start watching  

greece-slovenia and maybe croatia-turkey


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> today i`ll start watching


Please report as soon as possible...

Could someone explain to me why 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th from last european championship are in the same group.!!!???!?!?!?!?!:upset:


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> Could someone explain to me why 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th from last european championship are in the same group.!!!???!?!?!?!?!:upset:


i wasn`t meant to happen ! 

long before the tournament it was decided that way the groups in second stage would be formed ... if slovenia had taken second place then would be at the other group .... 

we`ll pretty good games though !


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

Lithuania have just beaten Australia 96:87.

Another impresive perfomance of Linas Kleiza, this time 30 points and 9 rebounds (3/4 3pts). At last Darius Silinskis showed what he can do, 19 points & 10 rebs and keeping Andrew Bogut to 16 pts and 8 rebs. 

And our PG Marius Prekevicius (playing somewhere in States, I've heard about him before this champ for first time) saved the day for us. We were leading by 11 after 1st quarter, 22 at halftime, I was thinking "oh another 40+ perfomance ", but after halftime australians started cuting the lead, and in 4th it was just 6 points! I was in panic actually watching live score, when the lead point by point was going down, but then Prekevicius went back into the game made 3pt, then missed twice from long range... I thought you still can do it (he made 3/5 in first half) and he did it, once again two 3pointers, but this time they're in... one more shot, this time from 2... uff some relief 

Now USA is playing with Puerto Rico, Jose Barea scored 22 of his team 31 points in first half


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> long before the tournament it was decided that way the groups in second stage would be formed ... if slovenia had taken second place then would be at the other group ....


Jp! I messed up categories or sth.
Whatever- the group is too strong!!!!
I heard Greeks are playing all their games infront of 9000 fanatic fans...


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> 
> 
> Jp! I messed up categories or sth.
> ...


No that's not true...So far the Greek NT has been playing in front of about 1500 fans...Now our games will be at a bigger stadium (about 7000 capacity) but I doubt our fans will fill it....maybe if we make it to the finals....


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## 2222 (Mar 21, 2003)

*wov*

turkey 87 croatia 78

engin atsur(193-pg) scored 41 points 5 rbd. 2 ***. 2 ste. and limited ukic to 11 points


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

Engin Atsur=Navarro


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

greece had much fun with slovenia today ,81-52 !!

schortsianitis had 28 easy points 
also very good was the pg sourlis 
and (at least for) a disappointment was vasiliadis 


slovenia was very ,,, i mean VERY, bad team


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

Yeah Vasiliadis was a dissapointment....But I guess it's normal to have a bad game once....

Tomorrow we will play Turkey their best player is Atsur a scoring PG (plays like a SG) if we stop him I think we will have an easy job to win....NA tremete abdalakia!!!!!!!


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

We really got our ***** kicked! The score is not realistic. We will show that tommorow against Croatia!


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> Yeah Vasiliadis was a dissapointment....But I guess it's normal to have a bad game once....


yes you are right .. he had great games in the first round so i may be just one bad day 

but what i didn`t like was his attitude 
most of his shoots were under heavy pressure and he was complaining all the time to everyone!! the refs , his team mates .... 

at this age a low profile is more appropriate .. he is not galis


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## solo (Nov 29, 2002)

ya but im still pissed that the championships got moved from malaysia.


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## [email protected][email protected]~ (Oct 9, 2002)

It wasn't only Vassiliadis who had a bad game yesterday. It was also Perperoglou who didn't perform and it was that we had an inbalanced inside-outside game. 
The attitude of Vassiliadis in yesterday's game most probably emerged from his missed open shots. I would have gone crazy too if I couldn't find the net...

Slovenians lost control of the game from the beggining, Erazem Lorbek (he should better stay in Europe than playing in ncaa) was... in another arena, Mocnic failed to control the pace of the game but I still believe that he is a very smart and talented pg and will show his game today against the lunatic devil Ukic.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)




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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

Lithuania vs USA 3rd quarter: 64-64. LIETUVA!!! :basket:


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## Carl English (May 29, 2003)

USA wins 87-84

According to FIBA.com Dee Brown had 47 points!!!


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

One of the days soon, Lithuania is going to beat the US. 

Mark my words.


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

the us team is real a team ..... 

they are for 2 years together and learned to play with each other covering each other back 

in the other end is the greek team or to be more accurate the 5 guys playing .... the team keeps winning because of the individual talent of players like vasiliadis and sofo


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ira</b>!
> the us team is real a team .....
> 
> they are for 2 years together and learned to play with each other covering each other back





> Coaches’ quotes
> 
> Ernie Kent (U.S.A.): It was a great game for both teams. We, as a team, have been together only for a few days, but with this kind of games help us a lot. Brown’s performance was outstanding, and saved us against a magnificent Lithuania.


So 2 years or few days?


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

Slovenia lost to Croatia in double overtime 103-113! ****!!!
Lorbek 37pts...
we just dont have enough quality players...


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Vujacic is missing...


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

Well, I've just watched Hellas-Turkey (79-58)... Shortsianitis had 26 with 15 rebounds. He's totally illegal at this level. 
Vasileiadis missed again, shooting a 4/19 from the field, while Vasilopoulos had 18 points and 11 rebounds. 

They really play at home, considering that Sofo plays with Iraklis, and the "Vasses" with PAOK. I've to admit that for the first time I've seen the Greeks playing as a team. 
And I like Xanthopoulos: he's absolutely an old-style playmaker, he doesn't shoot too much, he always plays for the team mates, he has a great vision of the game and... if he continues in stealing in this way, he'll finish his days in a jail.


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## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

Hmm so judging by what you guys say about young greek talent there really isn't going to be any NBA material besides sofoklis? People say Vassiliadis cant play D, FOTSIS is one of the best greek players and couldnt even stick around the NBA as a scrub, and people say diamontopoulus has no D.

So I guess Sofoklis is the only Greek for the next few years to even have hope of becoming a solid player in the NBA -- not counting Tsakalidis?


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

Fotsis is NBA material...he was just on the wrong team and they didn't give him time....Players like Pietrus, Diaw, Cabarkaba and Pavlovic are not better than him..
Who said Vasiliadis can't play D??? He's actually a very good defender.....WE are just saying that he has been struggling with his shot selection the last two games......He has had two bad games in a row now...He should do better in that area considering he has been a starter in A1 for one year now.....
Hopefully he will be back with his good performances in the semifinals....


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## Carl English (May 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> Fotsis is NBA material...he was just on the wrong team and they didn't give him time....


The 2001/2002 Grizzlies were garbage (not that this year's team was much better) and if you can't get time for them then you can't get time for anybody!!


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

That's not true Carl English. 
Sometimes it's not about which team you're playing for but who your teammates are. The Grizzlies had many players who played the same position with Fotsis and two first round rookies who needed playing time (Battier and Gasol). 
And if they had another GM they would have kept Fotsis but West doesn't like europeans and released him.


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

Can somebody tell me why Chad Ford isn't in Thessaloniki to scout international talent????He seems to be good in scouting youngsters!!!!!To bad he didn't go to watch the the turnament so that he could report to the american fans about the players....
Pou eisai re gyfto Chad Ford???Ooust MALaka!!!


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> Fotsis is NBA material...he was just on the wrong team and they didn't give him time....Players like Pietrus, Diaw, Cabarkaba and Pavlovic are not better than him


So why did those players get drafted in the first round while Fotsis was a secound rounder? Why was Fotsis cut by a lousy Grizzlies team and not picked up by another one? 
I have nothing against rooting for your country's players but be realistic. Fotsis simply can't shoot and is not that good.


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what can i say ?? i guess the coach knows better but i read somewhere that the players play together for a few years


maybe he meant that they were together for a few days preparing the worlc championship 

either way i like the way they play better than greece although i think greece is more talented team


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> 
> 
> So why did those players get drafted in the first round while Fotsis was a secound rounder? Why was Fotsis cut by a lousy Grizzlies team and not picked up by another one?
> I have nothing against rooting for your country's players but be realistic. Fotsis simply can't shoot and is not that good.



Fotsis is not a good shooter????YOu better be kidding......
Fotsis is actually one of the best shooters in Europe...He shoots 47% from the three point line...Compared to Mikael Pietrus that shoots 37%.......He shoots 90% on free throws compared to Pietrus that shoots 60 %
Antonis Fotsis Stats 
Mikael Pietrus Stats 

Fotsis>Pietrus
According to the stats Fotsis is better than Pavlovic,Cabarkaba, Pietrus....

You don't seem to be a reliable source when it comes to Euro bball...I mean I have previously read that you consider JR Holden to be NBA material


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, i'll rephrase what I said: Fotsis is a decent shooter at best. To compare him with Pietrus is irrelevant though because any Euro shooter's stats would look magnificient compared to Pietrus', because he's such a poor shooter (and I've always said it)



> Fotsis>Pietrus


That's not what NBA scouts think. One is struggling to make an NBA team while the other will have a guaranteed three year contract. I'm not saying Pietrus will be a star but I think he is better than Fotsis



> According to the stats Fotsis is better than Pavlovic,Cabarkaba, Pietrus....


As a basketball fan you should know that stats don't always tell the whole story. And the players you mentionned are still young while Fotsis will enter his peak in 1 or 2 years.



> You don't seem to be a reliable source when it comes to Euro bball...I mean I have previously read that you consider JR Holden to be NBA material


I have never considered myself a "reliable source". I just state my opinion. Like you do when you say Sofo will tear up the world.
And please name me a better PG in Europe than Holden right now (and I won't accept Pelekanos or Zisis  ). Seriously, he looks like he could burn a lot of backup PGs in the NBA with his quickness alone. Yes he's a bit selfish but he can still shoot prettty well.


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

> Ok, i'll rephrase what I said: Fotsis is a decent shooter at best. To compare him with Pietrus is irrelevant though because any Euro shooter's stats would look magnificient compared to Pietrus', because he's such a poor shooter (and I've always said it)...



Well he shoots 47% ...You call that decent????How big must his 3p percentage be so that he should be considered a great shooter ....70%????A player that shoots 47% is a great shooter to me but obviously not according to you...



> That's not what NBA scouts think. One is struggling to make an NBA team while the other will have a guaranteed three year contract. I'm not saying Pietrus will be a star but I think he is better than Fotsis


So you consider a player that averages 16 ppg in a team like PAO worse than a player that averages 9 ppg in Pau Ortez???
You say stats don't matter...Okay than you convinced me....a player averaging 9 ppg in a team like Pau Ortez is better than someone averaging 16 ppg in a team likePanathinaikos which has much more stars



> And the players you mentionned are still young while Fotsis will enter his peak in 1 or 2 years.


Once again you are wrong...Is Cabarkaba younger than Fotsis??No they are at the same age....Pietrus is just one year younger than Fotsis...If Fotsis will be at his peak in one year Pietrus should be at his peak in two years right????And something else so what if Pietrus got a three year contract??What matters is to play and play good...I'm pretty sure Pietrus will be stuck at the bench a la Nachbar.......



> I have never considered myself a "reliable source". I just state my opinion. Like you do when you say Sofo will tear up the world.
> And please name me a better PG in Europe than Holden right now (and I won't accept Pelekanos or Zisis  ). Seriously, he looks like he could burn a lot of backup PGs in the NBA with his quickness alone. Yes he's a bit selfish but he can still shoot prettty well.


Once again you talk crap...I have never said that Sofo will tear up the world......That is a false statement from your side..

Something else it's obvious that you haven't done you homework..Zisis and Pelekanos are shooting guards and JR Holden a PG (even though he plays like a SG) so the comparision is not valid...I'm happy by the fact that you haven't forgot ZIsis though........You know he showed his dick against France last year in Lithuania.....
And to tell you the truth I would pick Diamantidis and Spanoulis over JR Holden without hesitation.......and trust me I know JR Holden very well as he played for my team AEK and I watched him playing every week....
It's funny how the media can affect people...JR Holden is considered to be top player by the media and that affects the average fan to believe that...While Willie Solomon (he plays a bit like Holden....but is ten times the player Holden is) is not considered to be as good by the average fan...


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## ACE (May 5, 2003)

meanwhile back on topic ..

bye bye USA

Australia 106 USA 85


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Some pg's better than JR Holden just for example:
Scoonie Penn, Ariel McDonald, Sarunas Jasikevicius, Damir Mulaomerovic, Milos Vujanic, Vrbica Stefanov, Tyus Edney... and probably 10 others i can't remember... JR Holden is good but nothing special ( my opinion )


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

:frenchy:

You actually make good points suspect. IMO you're taking a way too nationalistic stand on this one but still you do make valid points .



> So you consider a player that averages 16 ppg in a team like PAO worse than a player that averages 9 ppg in Pau Ortez???
> You say stats don't matter...Okay than you convinced me....a player averaging 9 ppg in a team like Pau Ortez is better than someone averaging 16 ppg in a team likePanathinaikos which has much more stars


Not necessarily but I'd definitely take the dude that averages 9ppg in less minutes if he's a better all around player and defender. IMO (key words here) it's the case here. Points are not the only way you can affect a bball game, that's why I said stats can be misleading (BTW I didn't say they don't matter, I said they don't tell the whole story. BIG difference) Would you rather have Ben Wallace (7ppg) on your team or Juwan Howard (18ppg)? And no I am not comparing players.
Besides, and I know you will certainly bash me for that and say it's not true but the Greek league has lost much talent in the last two years. Scoring 16ppg in the Greek league now is not what it used to be in the mid 90s.



> I'm pretty sure Pietrus will be stuck on the bench a la Nachbar


Yes he will, he's a rookie playing behind proven veterans such as Jason Richardson and Bob Sura. And apparently you didn't do your homework either, Nachbar was injured 75% of the season last year.



> I have never said that Sofo will tear up the world......That is a false statement from your side..


lol what's the Greek word for sarcasm? 



> I'm happy by the fact that you haven't forgot ZIsis though........You know he showed his dick against France last year in Lithuania.....



:laugh: I was not aware of that. Care to explain why he did such an intelligent move? 

About JR Holden : I remain convinced he could be a serviceable backup in the NBA. If Kevin Ollie can get a 15mil contract then he should be in the L. He has a true American style of play (great handles, quick as lightning, jack up a lot of threes) so I think NBA teams could be interested in him.


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> Some pg's better than JR Holden just for example:
> Scoonie Penn, Ariel McDonald, Sarunas Jasikevicius, Damir Mulaomerovic, Milos Vujanic, Vrbica Stefanov, Tyus Edney... and probably 10 others i can't remember... JR Holden is good but nothing special ( my opinion )


Why do you people hate Holden so much? 

I mean the only guys on your list that are arguably better than Holden are Jasikevicius and Vujacic. Come on man, Ariel Mc Donald???


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> 
> lol what's the Greek word for sarcasm?


Sarcasm *IS* a greek word.


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

starvydas=owned


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> 
> 
> Sarcasm *IS* a greek word.


Glad to hear it. You learn something every day don't you?


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> starvydas=owned


:laugh:


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

um, Fotsis is an excellent shooter probably the best shooter in Greece. He had something like 6/6 3pointers against Spain a few months ago. And he was recently voted best european under 22, while Michael Pietrus was voted 10th or something. And all that by a french magazine.

And Schortsianitis is tearing up the under-19 World championship. He even broke the backboard with one of his dunks!
Too bad the Clippers don't seem to care too much. They haven't even sent a scout to check him out and Sofoklis was trying to find Rodney Buford's telephone number to learn things about the Clippers because Buford is on their Summer league team.


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>qwertyu</b>!
> 
> And Schortsianitis is tearing up the under-19 World championship. He even broke the backboard with one of his dunks!


If Sofoklis is tearing up the championship, so what then Kleiza does? 

Maybe, Sofo plays impressive, dunks and stuff, I cant tell cause havent seen a game, but Kleiza's stats are better and I think best by now in all champsionship.


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## GreekStyler (Apr 30, 2003)

we will see when Greece plays lithuania in the final four. Greece will smash lithuania by 20 plus and sofo will smash kleiza to under 10 points while he will score 30. GO HELLAS!!!!!!!!!


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## GreekStyler (Apr 30, 2003)

Sofo will also be mvp of the junior basketball championships simply because he is the best player their by far.


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!
> 
> 
> If Sofoklis is tearing up the championship, so what then Kleiza does?
> ...


It's true that Kleizas stats mighrt be better...But don't forget that almost all of Greece games were decided in the first quarter and the rest of the games were garbage time......So it's only logical that a player doesn't go 100% then and that is why Sofo's stats are not as good as Kleizas.....Besides he is very unselfish ..check his stats he never makes more than 9-12 attempts to score...


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

> Besides, and I know you will certainly bash me for that and say it's not true but the Greek league has lost much talent in the last two years. Scoring 16ppg in the Greek league now is not what it used to be in the mid 90s.


The stats that I presented are Euroleague stats not stats from the Greek League..




> Yes he will, he's a rookie playing behind proven veterans such as Jason Richardson and Bob Sura. And apparently you didn't do your homework either, Nachbar was injured 75% of the season last year.


It might be true that Nachbar has been injured ...but I doubt that he has been injured 75% of the season...It's a common thing for teams to make up that a player (especially among rookies) has an injury and put him IR list......



> I was not aware of that. Care to explain why he did such an intelligent move?


Well I was being sarcastic too.....What I meant by saying that he showed his dick against France is that Zisis last year scored 33 points against Pietrus, stopped him and send Greece to the finals......You know ......a French team with first round picks like Pietrus, Diaw and Turiaf couldn't beat the Greek Junior team...


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> 
> Well I was being sarcastic too.....What I meant by saying that he showed his dick against France is that Zisis last year scored 33 points against Pietrus, stopped him and send Greece to the finals......You know ......a French team with first round picks like Pietrus, Diaw and Turiaf couldn't beat the Greek Junior team...


It's no shame to lose against Greek NTs, they're usually good squads. You know why I thought Zisis could have literally showed his dick? Because actually in France the name "zizi" (= basically Zisis, without pronouncing the "s") is a curse word for penis. That's why I thought some French players could have trash talked him about that, and that Zisis got his revenge by doing that. Oh well too much imagination I suppose...


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Nachbar was injured and had an operation before NBA season- which is the worst thing that can happen to Nba player, because you can't catch up with the rest of the team. You are in bad condition and coach decides in the beginning of the season who will play and who wouldn't ... Have some love for the man! You forgot his dunks in Benneton?! We talked in one of the nightclubs- and he said: I just want one chance- I believe he will get one- and then... who da f*** is James Posey ... :whoknows:

I try to be realistic talking slovenian players in this forum, when it comes to Nachbar... NO CAN DO!:yes:


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

I expected him to dominate in the summer league! But with these performances... I am a bit worried! Van Guny wont like this!


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

I just don't get it. He has great potential, but just can't do anything... he should proove himself at summerleague... look at Jiri Welsch he is dominating summerleague the way Nachbar should( and I don't believe Jiri is that better than Nachbar)... I'm getting worried 2 for this man!


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

Finally! 32pts from Nachbar! It is about time! This is what he is capable of doing!


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

Australia and Lithuania will make the final

the australian guy had 39 points and 25 boards!


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

i hadn`t watched australia previously and i was impressed byt his team !!!! 

very good in rebounding (especialy offencive) and great full court press which caused too many turnovers to the croatians 

and of cource bogat ...... tall , fast excellent rebounder , huge hands , dripples like a PG!!!! 

i don`t think that australia win have problems winning the tittle 


on the other semi greece was awful!! vasiliadis again was disappointing (2/12 3s and 1/7 2s) 
if i was coach and had a player like sofoklis i would have 5-6 or even more plays just for him ... he is unbeatable on 1on1 
but greece doesn`t have any !!! 
if there wasn`t perpeloglou (great player) and vasilopoulos (not something unique but he gives 110% in evert game) lithuania would have won the game easier 

the greek coach has some explaining to do .... the team lost a 14-16 points advantage and he didn`t do anything (a time aout maybe ??) , throughout the tournament made complaints about the fans not being very supportive and yesterday where there were 4000 people he said " the fans pressured too much the players"!!!!


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

*A simple, and probably stupid question...*

What is the tendex rating? I've seen it in the box scores.


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

*Re: A simple, and probably stupid question...*



> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> What is the tendex rating? I've seen it in the box scores.


it`s a number which shows the positive things done by a player per minute 

it`s calculated like this (sum of positives - sum of negatives)/play time 

as positive count steals , blocks, ribounds, etc
as negative count turnovers, missed shoots ...


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ira</b>!
> on the other semi greece was awful!! vasiliadis again was disappointing (2/12 3s and 1/7 2s)
> if i was coach and had a player like sofoklis i would have 5-6 or even more plays just for him ... he is unbeatable on 1on1
> but greece doesn`t have any !!!
> ...


Well, print your post and sent it to the Hellenic Basketball Federation, to the technical staff of the Junior NT. 
It's great (and Vasileiadis is the player who will win the award of the MVL -Most Valuable Loser- for the decade '00. He has missed all the games of the 2nd round and the semifinal. Nice, we have found who will succeed to Carlton Myers, king of the '90s...). 

Ah, the Kangaroo will be the pick #1 at next draft. He's absolutely impressive!


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

i don`t know if you have seen vasiliadis play .... 
he is a good player 
nice shoot, pretty good ribounder 

his attitude sucks !!! complained about everything to everyone, 
most of his shoots were very very very bad choises 
someone told him he is galis .... 

BTW neither for vasiliadis were a couple of plays for free shoots 

Hellenic Basketball Federation won`t care about my opinion (and the opinion of many many others too) ... 
for years the coach positions were given to "friends" of vasilakopoulos (for example giannakis , petropoulos) ... if things weren`t so bad they would never ask ioanidis to coach the team !! 

in this championship the greek team had 4 (FOUR) coaches on the bench !! no one thought about a time out when lithuania dominated the game and we had scored 2 points in 5 mins !!!

lithuanian coach did also a very stupid thing at the end of the game .... they were 3 points (7 secs to end)ahead but he allowed the greek team to make a shoot .. maybe a foul and two fts would be better ... don`t you think ?


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ira</b>!
> i don`t think that australia will have problems winning the tittle


Well, first match between these two teams was lithuania 96-87 australia with lithuania leading on halftime 58-35. Bogut was average in that match with 16 points and bad fg percentage - we have some good post players as well. Tournament top scorer Linas Kleiza (30ppg on .65fg) plays for us as well.
But Australia is getting better and better, they beat USA, so both teams have equal chances tonight IMO.


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## [email protected][email protected]~ (Oct 9, 2002)

I agree with Ira. 
After watching all the Greek team's games and the 80% of the games of the tournament, I have a very bad taste for Stavropoulos. There were times that the team was overtaking opponents because of individual players' talent (Shortsianitis, Perperoglou, Vasilliadis) or heart (Vasilopoulos, Xanthopoulos, in some games Theos) and other times that Stavropoulos seemed to be hypnotized in the bench. In my opinion (and scouts opinions I believe...), Vassiliadis right now is one of the best European shooting guard prospects and one of the few that have a killing corner 3p shoot. 

Talking about young European sh. guards, I found only the Croatian Tomas better. The thing is that Vassiliadis was allowed from Stavropoulos to over-shoot the ball; he was in the court even when he was having consecutive bad shoot selections. He has "rare" to find shooting touch, he is 6-6 with quite ready body and 2 1/2 years of professional basketball and comparing to other guards with loads of talent, he's got defensive skills. 
For me this whole situation is something very strange, since our coach Stavropoulos was a very good and mentally sound shooting guard when he was a player.
Can't blame the kid at all... There were better coaches than Stavropoulos for this position when the selection was held (call it Dendrinos or Kalafatakis -oh, I wish we could see juniors run by Kalafatakis!- :yes: ). 

So, there he could have done a better job with the shooting selection of his guards. Such things (losing a game when winning with 14p and the Lithuanians were struggling, losing out big leads during the games -at least twice in each game we were having 12-16p leads and in a couple of minutes we were only 2-4p ahead and the coach was fishing in Thermaikos...)
Patavoukas' job (he is the assistant) was obvious in the game of our play-makers. Every analysis before the WJC was saying about a gap in the pg since we did not have had any big "name" in that position... But you could see Patavoukas all the time talking to Sourlis and Xanthopoulos and both kids had a very mature tournament.

Moreover, Vassiliadis was voted in the all-star team of the tournament (ok, the results were simply a joke... with Schortsianitis, Tomas, Daniel Brown or Pasalic staying out of the best team and lunatics Vasilliadis and Ukic -he is the reason that Croatians were simply not a team/ worse case in shooting selection than Vasilliadis- being voted)

Australians were simply the best team and showed it when things got tough; in the final... Very athletic, had strength and stamina to play 3/4 court press most of the games; its players seemed to know each others game, had good plays in the paint, a couple of very energetic players coming from the bench and knew how to use their big offensive weapons. One good player, Kleiza, can't win a whole team...


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

> Patavoukas' job (he is the assistant) was obvious in the game of our play-makers. Every analysis before the WJC was saying about a gap in the pg since we did not have had any big "name" in that position... But you could see Patavoukas all the time talking to Sourlis and Xanthopoulos and both kids had a very mature tournament.


i liked both of the two pg ... if only they were a little taller :-(

but there were more option in this position with first division experience (limited though) 

i`m sure about the age limit but kalaitsidis (iraklis) could be a very good addition ... the greek team finished the tournament with only two guards (i consider vasiliadis more a SF than SG) !!!


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GreekStyler</b>!
> we will see when Greece plays lithuania in the final four. Greece will smash lithuania by 20 plus and sofo will smash kleiza to under 10 points while he will score 30. GO HELLAS!!!!!!!!!


:laugh: haha :laugh: 

Sorry for bringing this up, but I was away for the weekend... So GreekStyler, who was smashed? 

Yea, we lost heavy in the final, but silver is ok too :yes:


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## gvergoulas (Jul 4, 2003)

1st of all congratulations to Australia and Lithuania, i think they deserved to be in the final:clap: 

I saw the games and got the impression that some guys on the Greek team were too personal and not playing team ball like the Aussis, Lithuanians and Croatia. Vassiliadis never plays like that with PAOK...he should let the game come to him rather than shoot 12 threes! Also, no matter how good Sofo is, he as attitude problems, trying to beat the crap out of everybody when things don't go his way is not good (ps. anyone interested go to the www.enet.gr (its in greek tho) site and read about how it took hime hours to chill, breaking everything in his way after the game). 

Anyway, this is weird because no matter how important these championships were (and they were), they don't mean squat 'cause these kids could just fall of the earth in 2yrs time (see Greece 95)!

Look forward to the Euro Champs in Sweden...


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GreekStyler</b>!
> Sofo will also be mvp of the junior basketball championships simply because he is the best player their by far.


Wrong!!! Andrew Bogut would school him like he did everyone else. AND...he was MVP too. But you already know that.


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## GreekStyler (Apr 30, 2003)

i disagree..they didn't play against eachother. I still think Sofo is the better prospect.


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## GreekStyler (Apr 30, 2003)

Greece is a ****load better than lithunia. Greece just played a bad game and their coaches suck. Also, vassiliadis had a bad game against lithuania, if he scored well we would have beat you guys by at least 10. On the other hand, greek basketball is in better shape than lithuania. We have four top notch juniour prospects: vassiliadis, schortsianitis, vassilopoulos and perperoglou. I also think dusan sakota can be very good as well. Futhermore, i don't understand why greece didn't select magounis for these championships. I heard he has nba scouts all over him at the moment.

While on the other hand lithuania has 1 prospect kleiza. Without kleiza you guys are nothing. Same as australia, they only have 1 prospect in Bogut (a good one, i might add).


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GreekStyler</b>!
> Also, vassiliadis had a bad game against lithuania, if he scored well we would have beat you guys by at least 10.


vasiliadis had ONE MORE bad game. 3/19 shoots !!!





> While on the other hand lithuania has 1 prospect kleiza. Without kleiza you guys are nothing.


greece without sofoklis would also suck ! 
the center of lithuania (no15) was also pretty good ... he has great shoot for mid range




> Same as australia, they only have 1 prospect in Bogut (a good one, i might add).


you are totaly wrong !!!! bogut is NBA material , he is far better than anyone else in his age and there are 2-3 very good players but shadowed but bogut`s peformances ..... 


BTW the important think where will be this players in 4-5 years 
and i`m pretty sure that the lithuanians (or 4-5 of them) will play top basketball while most greek players would be bench players in average teams ... even sofoklis whose attitude isn`t the best (even ioanidis said so) .... we have seen this many times happening


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## GreekStyler (Apr 30, 2003)

how can u say that???...lithuania beat us by like 3 points, not 20 or 30. I totally disagree with u, sofo, vassiliadis, perperoglou will all be very good players. BTW ira r u greek????


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GreekStyler</b>!
> how can u say that???...lithuania beat us by like 3 points, not 20 or 30.


Who cares 3 or 20, we are better and thats the fact.

75:72 

Also I dont agree that only Kleiza can become a good player. Jankunas and Silinskis will surely do this and personally I know Maciulis, who wasnt playing much here. He has the balls and I think he will do anything to become good player, not like your players as some ppl here say, who's attitude is bad.

Maybe you have more prospects... maybe... but that doesnt make you any better, cause if those prospects doesnt fit into one team it wont be strong.


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## GreekStyler (Apr 30, 2003)

i can't argue with the scoreline, since we lost, but greece is a better team prospect wise anyway. Greece's juniours would beat lithuanias juniours 9 times out of 10, but unfortunately it was that 1 game out of 10 were Greece's players had an off game esp. vaissiliadis.


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## GreekStyler (Apr 30, 2003)

Another thing, wats wrong with players showing emotion during games???. Thats good as it shows their desire to win. I would have loved it if Sofo during the lithuania game punched kleiza in the head...lol. That way we take out their best player and we make sure we win..lollll


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## GreekStyler (Apr 30, 2003)

Also on Jun 21 2002, Greece played lithunia for 3rd place in the u18 European juniour championships. Greece smashed lithuania without kleiza 82 - 67. That proves that lithuania is a 1 man team (kleiza). In the game vassiliadis had 22 points, sofo had 18 points, perperoglou had 10 points, theos (team captain) had 12 points. Greece has multiple top european prospects!


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GreekStyler</b>!
> Also on Jun 21 2002, Greece played lithunia for 3rd place in the u18 European juniour championships. Greece smashed lithuania without kleiza 82 - 67. That proves that lithuania is a 1 man team (kleiza). In the game vassiliadis had 22 points, sofo had 18 points, perperoglou had 10 points, theos (team captain) had 12 points. Greece has multiple top european prospects!


Yes, you convinced me. Greece is really the best in all the world. I cant argue with your arguments. I also think that your Junior NT would beat our Men NT and not with lousy 3 points but with 53. Morealso Sofoklis not only will be ROY in NBA, but will win MVP of the season and bring his team into NBA finals. How good that you revealed the true greatness of Greek basketball, I missed that much.


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GreekStyler</b>!
> how can u say that???...lithuania beat us by like 3 points, not 20 or 30. I totally disagree with u, sofo, vassiliadis, perperoglou will all be very good players. BTW ira r u greek????



imagine what kind of players should have been retzias , barlas and many many others ! very few of them keep working after 18! 

in this tournament none of the players you mentioned showed team spirit .... and especialy vasiliadis and sofoklis were not focused during the games and spent their time complaining to everyone and acted like they are somekind of stars !!! 


BTW yes i`m greek


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## Reznor (Jan 17, 2003)

pffffffffffff....sorry for disappearing guys. 

As my lith man here mentioned I was in Greece covering the games for Eurobasket. so u could have read my fonts over there, but yeh...I do owe u some reports...

Just life..u know...exams...god forbid work... and oh yeh...my gurl. they all need some attention now after I spent 12 days saying "Malakas" and eating Bugatza in 6AM after a long night at a bouzoukia of this greek superstar Tsalikis. Greeks are crazy!

anyways... my favorite player in the championship was Jose Barea. the PG of PR. he's 183 cm or so, but damn...he's tough, he so damn fast, speedy first step, u take one step back BOOM 3 pointer, he's not selfish, doesn't make many turnovers, in the 5-6 game vs. the USA he pulled 10 rebounds!!! He got so much nerve he even try to post up sometimes with his 183 cm! I don't know if he's NBA, but guys... he's something.

Moncik of Slovenia is really nice too, but hardly the same level. but he's also nice to watch. He took Vujacic's spot in Slovenia's PG, and he's not that skilled, but another fast PG with gr8 penetrations and crazy fakes. I like him. He just needs to develop some 3 pt shot ability, cause right now it seems like he got nothing (although I was told it's not that smart to leave him alone...). 

Bogut, Kleiza, Sofoklis, Perperoglou (I like him much more than Vassiliaidis), Atsor, Yi, Barea, Dee Brown, Ukic my man, Jankunas...there are so many of them. 

I promise with all my heart to write about them. Just be sure to keep me up


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Reznor</b>!
> pffffffffffff....sorry for disappearing guys.
> 
> As my lith man here mentioned I was in Greece covering the games for Eurobasket. so u could have read my fonts over there, but yeh...I do owe u some reports...
> ...


I'm looking forward to read your report on all those players Reznor.

and haha you seemed to have a good time in Thesaloniki.


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