# Darius close to being waived?



## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

*The end is nigh ...*

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/120581071320230.xml&coll=7

Hope springs eternal


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## Sonny-Canzano (Oct 20, 2007)

Miles' future up in the air



> _The Trail Blazers took the first steps Monday toward deciding the future of forward Darius Miles by *asking the NBA to appoint an independent doctor to determine whether Miles' right knee injuries are career-ending.*
> 
> Miles, who hasn't played in nearly two years, said earlier this season that he was healed and ready to play. The team, however, has said it is concerned about Miles' long-term health and his ability to play.
> 
> If the doctor rules that Miles, 26, can no longer play, the Blazers can waive Miles, after which the remaining two years and $18 million on his contract would come off the Blazers' salary cap. However, if Miles signs with another team after being waived and plays in 10 games in any one of the next two seasons, his salary would go back on the Blazers' books. _


If a doctor decides that his knee injury is career ending I don't see any team in the NBA touching Darius with a 10-foot pole.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

I just posted this in my "the end is nigh" thread.


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## Sonny-Canzano (Oct 20, 2007)

But my thread is put together better :whistling:


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

-Sonny- said:


> But my thread is put together better :whistling:


but posted later

stating the obvious, it sure would be great for the club if his contract was to vanish

STOMP


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I would not be at all surprised for some other team to take a flyer on Miles with a minimum contract.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Oh please, oh please, oh please.

Pritchard won the Oden lottery with a 5.3 chance of winning. Maybe he can get lucky again and rid this franchise of Darius Miles forever. Of course, if it does, it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Kevin Pritchard has sold his soul to the devil. But I'm cool with that. As long as it gets us a title.

BNM


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## BengalDuck (Jun 19, 2004)

We're one year away from having a very tradable asset (expiring contract). If we can eat the contract for next year without halting us from any major move we'd want to make, I'm not sure that not having a big expiring contract is in our best interest (that sentence might not make sense.... it's finals week and I've been studying for about 7 consecutive hours now).


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## Entity (Feb 21, 2005)

I know most folks aren't fond of Darius, but I would never wish a career ending injury on anyone. I know the Blazers would be better off if he weren't on the books, but I just can't hope that the price for that is his young career no matter how he affected this franchise.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

BengalDuck said:


> We're one year away from having a very tradable asset (expiring contract). If we can eat the contract for next year without halting us from any major move we'd want to make, I'm not sure that not having a big expiring contract is in our best interest (that sentence might not make sense.... it's finals week and I've been studying for about 7 consecutive hours now).


We already have that asset with Raef's contract next season. And really I don't think the Blazers want to wait any more with Darius. It's time to move on from him, build the team and stop wasting away any more years until he finally goes away.

This would be big for the Blazers if they can get Miles off the cap in time for that '09 summer. Just pay the man his money that he's owed, and let him walk. I credit Miles for not calling so much attention to himself during the past two years, but I'm hopeful he knows that he's not wanted anymore.


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## glazeduck (Mar 20, 2007)

Entity said:


> I know most folks aren't fond of Darius, but I would never wish a career ending injury on anyone. I know the Blazers would be better off if he weren't on the books, but I just can't hope that the price for that is his young career no matter how he affected this franchise.


Darius lost the benefit of being treated with human decency when his racist tirades, laziness, immaturity and bad attitude became the reason that one of the most genuinely great human beings (Mo) lost his job.

That said, I'm not actively rooting for Darius to be in massive amounts of pain, but lets get a few things straight. He's had his surgery and rehab, health-wise, he's fine. Maybe he'll never be able to perform as the elite athlete that he once was, but his current state is far from one that i'd feel pity for. This is a kid that NEVER liked to work, now he doesn't have to. This is a kid who LOVES to spend money (just talk to someone who's seen him in a nudie bar or check out his many tricked-out cars), now he's got all the free time (and money) that he could ever want to spend it. 

We've heard that he has a new kid and supposedly a newfound maturity, so we're really going to get to see what Darius is all about if this goes through. I believe, according to the rules that its not actually career ending, just that he'll have to be out for the duration of his contract. Which means that he'll have another 2 years to get into game shape if he wants (he'll still only be 28 years old), or will have the opportunity to ride off into the sunset with some of Paul Allen's pocket change.

While it's convenient that this helps OUR team, I wouldn't feel sympathy for Darius were he to be in the same situation on even the Lakers. I'd say that karma is a b!tch, but I don't even feel like karma's hitting Darius that hard. So he has to retire and get a 40 million dollar lump sum. Poor poor guy. He never seemed to love what he was doing when he WAS playing, now we're expected to feel sorry for him that he can't play? No thanks.


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## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

glazeduck said:


> Darius lost the benefit of being treated with human decency when his racist tirades, laziness, immaturity and bad attitude became the reason that one of the most genuinely great human beings (Mo) lost his job.


There are so many things wrong with the above sentance, it's not even funny.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

miles getting a medical retirement would be great. if we really want a big expireing, we could always sign someone who can actually play to a 1 year deal.

so all this miles expireing crap can cease.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

alext42083 said:


> I credit Miles for not calling so much attention to himself during the past two years, but I'm hopeful he knows that he's not wanted anymore.


I'd want a healthy Darius and would certainly root for him if he were playing... because he'd be playing for my favorite team. But back when Nash resigned him I said he got way too much money and here we are at the fattest days of that same contract. Obviously he isn't proving much bang for the buck and the club's cap space could be utilized better. 

hopefully this situation shows some movement one way or another shortly

STOMP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

It's so hard to believe that Darius is only 26.


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## BenDavis503 (Apr 11, 2007)

Oh PLEASE come true!!!

It is too bad though. Darius could have stepped up and been our SF. But he is a bum.


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## Ukrainefan (Aug 1, 2003)

It seems like the Blazers must feel like they are on fairly solid ground medically, before starting this process. Because if they are wrong at some point, it could be very troublesome. Imagine if the Dr. determined Miles finished and that motivated him to really work like crazy to rehabilitate and after a year he signs with another club. That would wreak havoc with our salary cap planning. Just risking that it might happen would really put planning in limbo unless we were absolutely sure there was no way he could come back within those two years.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Ukrainefan said:


> It seems like the Blazers must feel like they are on fairly solid ground medically, before starting this process. Because if they are wrong at some point, it could be very troublesome. *Imagine if the Dr. determined Miles finished and that motivated him to really work like crazy to rehabilitate and after a year he signs with another club. That would wreak havoc with our salary cap planning.* Just risking that it might happen would really put planning in limbo unless we were absolutely sure there was no way he could come back within those two years.


That is exactly what I was thinking when I was reading the article, and frankly I think it's a very real possibility that he could sign a one year deal for the veteran's minimum or even a ten day contract and all he has to do is participate in 10 games for this all to come back and blow up in KP's face.

On the other hand, I'm guessing that if he is deemed medically unfit to continue playing then it would be extremely difficult for him to even get an audition with another team unless he worked his butt off, on his own and tried to show up for summer league or went to the D-league ... in other words Darius is going to have to really want play again -- and this also assumes that his knee problems have more to do with lassitude than an actual medical problem.

I feel badly for Darius only insofar as he seems to have squandered considerable talent, but he is leaving a job considerably more financially secure than 99.99% of the rest of us ever will.


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## chairman (Jul 2, 2006)

GOD said:


> I would not be at all surprised for some other team to take a flyer on Miles with a minimum contract.



Exactly. If I read this correctly, all someone has to do for it to go back on the Blazers's books, is to have someone give him ONE 10 day contract. There will be at least one team in 2 years that would do it just to screw with us.

oops, I did read it wrong. He has to play in 10 games in one year (Over the next two seasons) That is a little better.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

STOMP said:


> But back when Nash resigned him I said he got way too much money and here we are at the fattest days of that same contract. Obviously he isn't proving much bang for the buck and the club's cap space could be utilized better.
> STOMP


Heck, even Darius said at the time he got too much money. :laugh:


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## chairman (Jul 2, 2006)

BBert said:


> Heck, even Darius said at the time he got too much money. :laugh:


I don't remember that at all. I remember him being pissed off over the negotiations. He thought he was worth more and his agent "claimed" he had other offers but that the Blazers were scaring them all off becuase they promised to match.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

chairman said:


> Exactly. If I read this correctly, all someone has to do for it to go back on the Blazers's books, is to have someone give him ONE 10 day contract. There will be at least one team in 2 years that would do it just to screw with us.


Seriously. Let's say he played for the Lakers (or a contender in our division) and they got a medical retirement for him. And let's say getting his contract off their books was key to them having cap space to sign or trade for a key free agent who could put them over the top. And let's say Darius could at least run up and down the court and jump high enough to touch the rim. If I were in charge of the Blazers (or another contender in their division) I'd sign the guy to a contract, play him for 1 minute in 10 games, and blow a chief competitor's salary cap strategy into the stratosphere. 

Is there anything stopping a team from doing that?

If there is any chance he could play in the next 2 years, the safest thing to do would be to wait and try to trade him next year. But KP is something of a risk taker. No guts, no glory. :wlift:


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

chairman said:


> I don't remember that at all. I remember him being pissed off over the negotiations. He thought he was worth more and his agent "claimed" he had other offers but that the Blazers were scaring them all off becuase they promised to match.


My memory is what it is (not always infallable) but as I recall Darius clearly intimated that the Blazers offered him more than he actually wanted. He was giddy with happiness with that contract, iirc. And for good reason.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

BBert said:


> Seriously. Let's say he played for the Lakers (or a contender in our division) and they got a medical retirement for him. And let's say getting his contract off their books was key to them having cap space to sign or trade for a key free agent who could put them over the top. And let's say Darius could at least run up and down the court and jump high enough to touch the rim. If I were in charge of the Blazers (or another contender in their division) I'd sign the guy to a contract, play him for 1 minute in 10 games, and blow a chief competitor's salary cap strategy into the stratosphere.
> 
> Is there anything stopping a team from doing that?


My guess is that there is a little unwritten rule about doing something like that. It's certainly not illegal, but it's the kind of douschbaggery that I bet teams just wouldn't do.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

BBert said:


> My memory is what it is (not always infallable) but as I recall Darius clearly intimated that the Blazers offered him more than he actually wanted. He was giddy with happiness with that contract, iirc. And for good reason.


I believe you're both right. The negotiations lasted a while, Darius was upset at what he viewed as lowball offers, then Nash came up with a counteroffer that was bigger than what Darius had anticipated. He said as much in an interview I saw on TV at that time.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Fork said:


> My guess is that there is a little unwritten rule about doing something like that. It's certainly not illegal, but it's the kind of douschbaggery that I bet teams just wouldn't do.


Oh, so now you're calling me a "douchebag?" Moderator!!! :rules:

J/K :clown: (Just KIDDING!)


I hope you are right.

Ah, I miss "The Punisher." All 18 games of him.  What could have been. :brokenhea

:cheers:


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Hmm, looks like Canzano was correct in his article about this last month.

:whistling:


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

BBert said:


> Seriously. Let's say he played for the Lakers (or a contender in our division) and they got a medical retirement for him. And let's say getting his contract off their books was key to them having cap space to sign or trade for a key free agent who could put them over the top. And let's say Darius could at least run up and down the court and jump high enough to touch the rim. If I were in charge of the Blazers (or another contender in their division) I'd sign the guy to a contract, play him for 1 minute in 10 games, and blow a chief competitor's salary cap strategy into the stratosphere.
> 
> *Is there anything stopping a team from doing that*?


Yes. A roster spot and cap space would have to be created for Darius to sign with any team. It's kind of a risky strategy to dump a player with the sole purpose being to get one over on the Blazers.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

GOD said:


> I would not be at all surprised for some other team to take a flyer on Miles with a minimum contract.



This is why Miles wil be "plaing ball" with Portland; 

*TAXES* 

If he is deemed medically unfit to play due to a permanent disability, he will get all monies owed to him in a one time lump sum payment, tax free. If reports are correct and he is due $18 mil over the next two seasons I would see him saving (based on a 40% tax rate) $7.2 mil by accepting the medical retirement. 

Now does anybody see him giving that money up to attempt a comeback in the next two years for a vet min deal? I don't, and I also do not see any team offering him anything over a non-guaranteed vet min deal. So I would say that Miles is well aware of the tax benefit to him, spelled out by a Paul Allen financial advisor maybe. 

For those that are unsure of the tax stuff here, I am sure at least one of our members here know taxes. My info is based on personal experience. I am VA rated @ 70% and got a ton of tax free money in a lump sum payment for the injuries I suffered. Of course I also get a monthly stipend for life that Miles will also get in the form of disability pay. Miles will probably be able to get a monthly stipend as well from the Players Association. You would think they would have something set up to protect players that suffer career ending injuries and will have some kind of income after their contract expires.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Fork said:


> I believe you're both right. The negotiations lasted a while, Darius was upset at what he viewed as lowball offers, then Nash came up with a counteroffer that was bigger than what Darius had anticipated. He said as much in an interview I saw on TV at that time.


No, Sir. I believe YOU are right.

Ah, the heady days of the PatterNash regime. It seems like such a distant nightmare.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

STOMP said:


> I'd want a healthy Darius and would certainly root for him if he were playing... because he'd be playing for my favorite team. But back when Nash resigned him I said he got way too much money and here we are at the fattest days of that same contract. Obviously he isn't proving much bang for the buck and the club's cap space could be utilized better.
> 
> hopefully this situation shows some movement one way or another shortly
> 
> STOMP


I just could not root for the guy if he came back.. even when he was healthy, it was hard to root for him, knowing he took plays off sometimes and mailed it in some nights ala Randy Moss in Oakland style. It's like Jarrett Jack x10 for me.. and when he was playing, I remember fans even booing him sometimes on the floor, and when it gets to that point and nothing's changed, then it's see you later.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Hap said:


> It's so hard to believe that Darius is only 26.


Yeah, I know... I saw that and thought no way. Seems like hes at least 29, 30.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

OK so if Darius medically retires, can we use any cap room we might have before his old contract is up? I would think so, but I don't know what would happen if he played 10 games somewhere else within the time frame of his contract. Supposedly his contract would go back on our books...so couldn't this push a team into the luxury tax by, essentially, no fault of their own? Also, it seems like it could erase a team's cap room in the same manner.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Any chance that Tonya Harding's available to give the Blazers a little help prior to Darius' exam? :whistling:


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

glazeduck said:


> Darius lost the benefit of being treated with human decency when his racist tirades,


What racist tirades?


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## Chalupa (Jul 20, 2005)

alext42083 said:


> I just could not root for the guy if he came back.. even when he was healthy, it was hard to root for him, knowing he took plays off sometimes and mailed it in some nights ala Randy Moss in Oakland style. It's like Jarrett Jack x10 for me.. and when he was playing, I remember fans even booing him sometimes on the floor, and when it gets to that point and nothing's changed, then it's see you later.


Looking back at it the whole taking nights and plays off thing could have been medically related. Miles body could have been physically incapable of bringing it every night. Miles has had knee problems for awhile so it very likely all this is related.

On the other hand the whole not caring about basketball off the court is totally on him.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

BIG Q said:


> This is why Miles wil be "plaing ball" with Portland;
> 
> *TAXES*
> 
> ...


I don't know for sure, but I doubt this is true.

In the case of NBA guaranteed contracts, all that is happening, is that Miles continues to receive the remainder of his guaranteed contract. It is, after all, Guaranteed.

He will continue to owe taxes on the payments.

The big deal with the medical "retirement" is twofold:

1) it clears a roster spot which the team can use on another player

2) it removes the salary from the team's computed luxury tax and salary cap figures.

Since KP has made a big deal about having cap space to use on a free agent in 2009, this is a big deal to him.

Of course, as pointed out already, if Miles plays in 10 games during one of the next two seasons, Miles salary goes back on the cap.

As for tax free disability payments, the IRS standard rules are thus: if the employee pays for the disability insurance with their own after-tax income, any later benefits of that policy are tax-free; if the employer pays for the insurance (and takes an expense deduction), any later benefits of that policy are taxable. It boils down to having to pay tax on income at one time or another.

Since there is no reason for Mile to have purchased a disability policy for the period of his guaranteed contract, the tax-free income idea wouldn't happen.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Would the Blazers get a trade exception?


If so, that could be huge this offseason, allowing us to pay some player 8+mil instead of just being restricted to MLE. I don't know how many teams this year will be under the cap, but usually there are only a few, so there would be little competition for some of the players who deserve more than MLE.


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## Blaze (Jan 25, 2003)

When Miles is deemed medically unable to continue playing, how much will the Blazers be under the salary cap for the summer of 09? If we are $15 to $20 million under the cap, are we going to be able to go after Chris Paul? If Paul only accepts the qualifying offer for next year, does it allow him to be an unrestricted free agent after the 08-09 season? If Paul can conceivably make the same amount of money at either NO or Port., which team would he choose to go to - a team like Portland with LMA, BRoy and Oden sure seems a better choice then a team with West, Chandler and an aging Peja.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Masbee said:


> As for tax free disability payments, the IRS standard rules are thus: if the employee pays for the disability insurance with their own after-tax income, any later benefits of that policy are tax-free; if the employer pays for the insurance (and takes an expense deduction), any later benefits of that policy are taxable. It boils down to having to pay tax on income at one time or another.


This is a good point and the way I also understand how this works. In fact, it's EXACTLY what happened with Brian Bosworth when he retired from the Seahawks due to his bad shoulders. For whatever reason, Bosworth had paid for his own disability insurance. So, after retiring due to permanent disability he received the remainder of his salary totally tax free. A wise move on his part. I have no idea if this is/was standard procedure in the NFL, or a unique situation where Bosworth went out and bought his own disability insurance.

So, that begs the question, who pays for NBA player insurance? Does the team pay for it? If so, the proceeds, as Masbee says, would be taxable. If the player pays the cost of the premiums, perhaps through a payroll deduction, then the proceeds would be tax free, like in Bosworth's case. If their insurance is paid by the player's union (I doubt it, but don't know for sure), then I have no idea if the proceeds would be taxable or not.



Masbee said:


> Since there is no reason for Mile to have purchased a disability policy for the period of his guaranteed contract, the tax-free income idea wouldn't happen.


I have no idea who pays the insurance premiums for NBA players. At my job, my company pays my basic medial and dental, but I pay for coverage for my dependents, plus I also pay for optional short term and long term disability, as well as supplemental life insurance for myself and my spouse. So, if I was permanently disabled, my insurance payments would be tax free. Again, I have no idea how it works in the NBA. You always here about how much players make, how long their contracts are, how it impacts a tams salary cap and luxury tax status, but I have honestly never heard anyone say anything about who purchases the player medical, dental and disability insurance. Perhaps we should ask DA. He spent enough time at the dentist that he probably knows who was footing the bill.

BNM


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Blaze said:


> When Miles is deemed medically unable to continue playing, how much will the Blazers be under the salary cap for the summer of 09? If we are $15 to $20 million under the cap, are we going to be able to go after Chris Paul? If Paul only accepts the qualifying offer for next year, does it allow him to be an unrestricted free agent after the 08-09 season? If Paul can conceivably make the same amount of money at either NO or Port., which team would he choose to go to - a team like Portland with LMA, BRoy and Oden sure seems a better choice then a team with West, Chandler and an aging Peja.


Paul's qualifying offer year is the 2009-2010 season. If he chose to accept the qualifying offer and play out the season, he wouldn't be an unrestricted free agent until the summer of 2010...too late for the Blazers to have any cap space.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

you cant have chris paul, greg oden, LMA, and Roy all on the same team.... too many chiefs, not enough indians... we'd be worthless.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> So, that begs the question, who pays for NBA player insurance? Does the team pay for it? If so, the proceeds, as Masbee says, would be taxable. If the player pays the cost of the premiums, perhaps through a payroll deduction, then the proceeds would be tax free, like in Bosworth's case. If their insurance is paid by the player's union (I doubt it, but don't know for sure), then I have no idea if the proceeds would be taxable or not.


Well, since NBA contracts are guaranteed (for the most part), and NFL contracts are NOT guaranteed, that makes all the difference in the world.

Why would a person with a guaranteed contract need disability insurance? The insurance company wouldn't pay them a dime. Double dipping and all.

Not until their guaranteed contract ran out and was fully paid, and the person was still disabled, could they qualify for disability payments from an insurance company. At that point for Miles, he is a non issue to the Blazers in any way - payments, salary cap, lux tax, roster, etc.

In the NBA, disability insurance is for the TEAM, to pay cash so they can afford to pay a replacement player. Poor teams might consider this if the premiums are affordable. Rich teams would likely just self-insure, or use insurance to play games with cash flow and tax breaks, etc.



> I have no idea who pays the insurance premiums for NBA players. At my job, my company pays my basic medial and dental, but I pay for coverage for my dependents, plus I also pay for optional short term and long term disability, as well as supplemental life insurance for myself and my spouse. So, if I was permanently disabled, my insurance payments would be tax free. Again, I have no idea how it works in the NBA. You always here about how much players make, how long their contracts are, how it impacts a tams salary cap and luxury tax status, but I have honestly never heard anyone say anything about who purchases the player medical, dental and disability insurance. Perhaps we should ask DA. He spent enough time at the dentist that he probably knows who was footing the bill.
> 
> BNM


You are refering to standarized mass consumption vanilla disability plans. The benifits are VERY limited. They only pay a portion of salary - not 100%, the time is limited, and benefits stop when Social Security disability kicks in. They also stop those limited percentage payments if you can work in ANY kind of job.

The type of disibility policy for NBA players is platinum, super deluxe and the premiums would likely shock most people - millions of dollars.

I can't fathom NBA players who have a multi-year guaranteed contract buying such a policy. No financial advisor would recomend one. Though I have heard of young players paying for (a limited) one before they got their first big contract. Wasn't there a guy who decided to play on a one-year deal so he could become an unrestricted free agent and bought a policy? And the premium cost him most of his net income.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

If Miles is medically retired, can't KP offer him a "job" with the Blazers for a couple of seasons? When Fred Hoiberg had heart surgery while with Minny I thought he worked for them. If he was on the "payroll" he couldn't be approached to play for another team, correct? Maybe make him an overseas scout?


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

BBert said:


> I'd sign the guy to a contract, play him for 1 minute in 10 games, and blow a chief competitor's salary cap strategy into the stratosphere.
> 
> Is there anything stopping a team from doing that?



I think if it was that blatant then KP and Paul Allen would complain to David Stern and have some sort of an arbitration which would be bad PR to a team trying to "screw the Blazers"

So are the cap experts sure that this would give us cap SPACE to sign a FA? I thought it was just to lower the lux tax $ number. 

Another odd scenario if the above is true, say we use the cap space to sign a FA, then, Darius makes a comeback after we've used our cap space. His salary would be added back to the teams but it wouldn't matter to us as we've already spent the FA dollars.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Masbee said:


> What racist tirades?


I believe that they are referring to the Cheeks incident. Where Miles went off calling Cheeks names and saying he wasn’t a good coach or whatever it was that he was screaming about during his tizzy fit. I might be wrong, I’ve been wrong before.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Masbee said:


> Well, since NBA contracts are guaranteed (for the most part), and NFL contracts are NOT guaranteed, that makes all the difference in the world.
> 
> Why would a person with a guaranteed contract need disability insurance? The insurance company wouldn't pay them a dime. Double dipping and all.
> 
> ...


Like I said in my post, I have no idea how insurance, be it disability, major medical, dental, life, etc. works in the NBA. Do you KNOW how it works, or is the above just speculation? It's OK if it is, I just want to understand the basis for your statements.



Masbee said:


> I can't fathom NBA players who have a multi-year guaranteed contract buying such a policy. No financial advisor would recomend one. Though I have heard of young players paying for (a limited) one before they got their first big contract. Wasn't there a guy who decided to play on a one-year deal so he could become an unrestricted free agent and bought a policy? And the premium cost him most of his net income.


It depends on when the policy was purchased. Again, I have no idea what the details are regarding Miles, but it is possible he purchased a personal disability policy while he was a free agent and not under contract. He was working out for teams and hoping to score a big payday. It would make sense to have some kind of coverage at that time, but who knows if he did - not me, that's for sure. And if he did, he very well may have let it lapse once he signed that big, long term guaranteed deal (when EXACTLY did he first injure the knee?). Again, I don't know the details of Miles' disability insurance and I don't think anybody else here does either.

Young players do purchase policies all the time. Matt Leinart did when he went back to USC for another year, and I think some of the Florida kids did when they returned for another year and a chance at a second title. It makes sense if you're a lock to be a high first round pick with tens of millions of dollars on the line if you get injured before you sign your first contract. I believe there was also some concern about disability insurance for some of the NBA players participating in the world championships and Olympics. I think Mark Cuban raised a stink about Germany not ponying up to pay for disability coverage for Dirk. I seem to recall Cuban ended up paying for the coverage to protect his asset/investment.

Of course these are all different than Miles' case, but it just goes to show you can insure ANYTHING if you want to and an afford the premiums. Different people insure different things for different reasons. So, Miles probably didn't pay for a personal disability policy out of his pocket, but I have absolutely no idea if he did or didn't. I'm sure we'll find out more as the process progresses. This is a rather unusual situation. It has happened before (players retiring due to injury), but I don't recall all the details.

BNM


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Would the Blazers get a trade exception?


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

They wouldn't get a trade exception, but all of his salary would come off of the computation of team salary for cap purposes...which amounts to about the same thing. That would mean an additional $9 mil plus in cap space in the summer of '09.


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> This is a rather unusual situation. It has happened before (players retiring due to injury), but I don't recall all the details.


I know Allan Houston had a similar retirement do to injuries that saved the Knicks some money, mostly in luxury tax. The Knicks were never close to getting under the salary cap though.

I can't think of any previous situation where a team had a player medically retire that resulted in them having extra free agent dollars to add to their cap space and use to sign new players with. This will be interesting to follow.

I just heard Jason Quick on 1080 the FAN saying that he expects a doctor in NY to determine Miles is unfit to play in the next 10 days and the whole process to be completed by early April and at that point the Blazers will waive Miles. Quick also said that earlier this year Miles and the Blazers front office (mostly KP) were at odds on his status and him being able to play, there was some animosity, but that has cooled off lately and Miles is beginning to realize for himself he won't ever be the same player again. (Off-topic he mentioned once the Blazers are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs than Nate will scale back Brandons minutes and give McRoberts/Sergio a bit more burn)


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Draco said:


> I know Allan Houston had a similar retirement do to injuries that saved the Knicks some money, mostly in luxury tax. The Knicks were never close to getting under the salary cap though.
> 
> I can't think of any previous situation where a team had a player medically retire that resulted in them having extra free agent dollars to add to their cap space and use to sign new players with. This will be interesting to follow.
> 
> I just heard Jason Quick on 1080 the FAN saying that he expects a doctor in NY to determine Miles is unfit to play in the next 10 days and the whole process to be completed by early April and at that point the Blazers will waive Miles. Quick also said that earlier this year Miles and the Blazers front office (mostly KP) were at odds on his status and him being able to play, there was some animosity, but that has cooled off lately and Miles is beginning to realize for himself he won't ever be the same player again. (*Off-topic he mentioned once the Blazers are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs than Nate will scale back Brandons minutes and give McRoberts/Sergio a bit more burn*)


I wondered about that ... hopefully all of this "free sergio" talk can be settled one way or another (personally I hope he has some success, because I really do want the guy to eventually suceed; he seems like a nice kid.)


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> Like I said in my post, I have no idea how insurance, be it disability, major medical, dental, life, etc. works in the NBA. Do you KNOW how it works, or is the above just speculation? It's OK if it is, I just want to understand the basis for your statements.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Speculation.

Based on common sense in that in the NBA contracts are guaranteed, you can pretty easily figure out that there is no need for an NBA player on a guaranteed contract to even have disability coverage. What would they get coverage for? They are paid no matter what.

They could buy a policy for the potential career years AFTER the end of their current contract. But, we (well most) Blazer fans don't give a hoot about his financial situation after the end of his current contract and that is not what this thread is about.

I just can't imagine why or how an NBA player on a fully guaranteed contract would have (very large, as the cost of disability coverage for an athlete is extemely high) payroll deductions to pay for insurance in the event they were unable to play. Their incentive is what?

If a player is waiting to sign a contract or their big contract, I can see some buying a short-term policy to cover them against injury, until they ink that fully guaranteed deal. And they would pay for it themselves.

Again, all specualation. Not important enough to verify.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Masbee said:


> Speculation.
> 
> Based on common sense in that in the NBA contracts are guaranteed, you can pretty easily figure out that there is no need for an NBA player on a guaranteed contract to even have disability coverage. What would they get coverage for? They are paid no matter what.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. I agree with your logic. It makes sense. And I agree it's not worth spending more time on. It is what it is and we will find out soon enough if he's granted a medical retirement and, if so, how it affects the team.

BNM


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

Quick was on the big show today on 1080. I missed the beginning of it, but they did a recap after he hung up and they said Quick thinks it is very likely that the doctor is going to say Miles can't play. This is good news!


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