# How valuable is Yao?



## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

I was sitting here thinking about how valuable Yao is as an NBA player. I know he is tall and has a presence in the low post, but how valuable is he? Is he a top ten player? Is he a top 20 player?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if Yao was on the trading block, would you trade your top player for him? Would you trade an all-star for Yao?

My answer is.......no!


What do you think?


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

It depends on who my top player is. As a Celtic fan, I do consider Paul Pierce for Yao Ming, but probably decline. I don't think you'd get KG, Duncan, Kobe, Jermaine, Shaq, LeBron, or any of the top 15 players.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Alot of teams would trade their top player for Yao, and since he's an allstar, depending on the trade I would trade an allstar for him.

Alot of Tmac fans have been posting how JVG's system sucks and it's harboring Tracy's game. Funny how you guys never consider that same scernario for Yao. Instead Yao's not valuble? If Tracy's still valueble and it's the system, you shoud see the value Yao Ming has as well.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> Alot of teams would trade their top player for Yao, and since he's an allstar, depending on the trade I would trade an allstar for him.
> 
> Alot of Tmac fans have been posting how JVG's system sucks and it's harboring Tracy's game. Funny how you guys never consider that same scernario for Yao. Instead Yao's not valuble? If Tracy's still valueble and it's the system, you shoud see the value Yao Ming has as well.


This thread has nothing to do with T-Mac. I'm looking at Yao's production as a player. I know he is an all-star, but he has a whole continent voting for him......I'm talking about Yao..not the Rockets..not T-Mac...juat Yao. Would you trade for him if you had to give up your star player?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> This thread has nothing to do with T-Mac. I'm looking at Yao's production as a player. I know he is an all-star, but he has a whole continent voting for him......I'm talking about Yao..not the Rockets..not T-Mac...juat Yao. Would you trade for him if you had to give up your star player?


You obviously missed the point about JVG's offense. It had more to do with the system than Tracy. 

And I already answered your question. 



> Alot of teams would trade their top player for Yao, and since he's an allstar, depending on the trade I would trade an allstar for him.


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

Yao's current value = 40% play + 60% business

Rockets has tripled their incomes from sponsors after Yao's arrival.
Yao also brings the team way much attention, even more than 
the championship years.

Teams like Golden State, Clippers and Knicks may trade their 
whole roster for him just because of business.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> You obviously missed the point about JVG's offense. It had more to do with the system than Tracy.
> ...


Would you trade Ray Allen for Yao?

Would you trade Amare?

Would you trade Dirk, Brand, J.O'neal, Artest, Marbury, A.I., KG, Duncan, Zach..........would you trade any of these players (any top 15-20 player) for Yao?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> Would you trade Ray Allen for Yao?


No



> Would you trade Amare?


No



> Would you trade Dirk, Brand, J.O'neal, Artest, Marbury, A.I., KG, Duncan, Zach..........would you trade any of these players (any top 15-20 player) for Yao?


Dirk = No
Brand = Yes
Oneal = No
Artest = No
Marbury = Yes
AI = Maybe
KG = NO
Duncan = NO
Zach = Yes


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> Would you trade Ray Allen for Yao?
> ...


I think Teams would trade Allen, Brand, Artest (especially right
now), Marbury, Zach for Yao in a sec.

Amare, KG, Duncan, and possibly Dirk are untouchables.

J'Oneal and A.I. are hard to say.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

I don't know...

Something tells me Yao is not happy that his good buddy Franics left. He may not say but Franics was really good to him. Being a foreigner like me, I can feel the language barrier, the cultural shock and everything. I guess the question is not if Yao would become a dominant player. The question is if the other players are willing to let him guide the team. 

Yao is shy, just like most asian people I know. No matter how skillful he is, is he still not able to make other players listen to him. Yao is quite VOCAL on his Chinese team because he feels comfortable giving out commands and leads his team.

Anyway, I guess my point is that Francis and Yao got along really well and he made Yao felt really comfortable. I am not sure if T-MAC gets along with Yao really well. Haven't heard much about it. 

So, will Yao be a Top 10 player? Probably not. But he will be an all-star for many years because there are just so many Chinese people voting for him. LOL

Jimmy


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> Yao's current value = 40% play + 60% business
> 
> Rockets has tripled their incomes from sponsors after Yao's arrival.
> ...


BINGO. NBA is all about business man. The best basketball is probably in college where they truly give their 100% to win games. I remember my coach used to tell me that if I want to learn about basketball, I should watch college basketball games and not NBA games. LOL 

Anyway, Yao has helped Rocket to triple their income and for ANY INVESTORS & TEAM OWNERS, that's a dream come true. Would Rocket gave up Yao? I don't think so. As long as Yao is on the team, the Rocket is financially sound. 

Jimmy


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Teams would trade Allen, Brand, Artest (especially right
> ...


Dirk is untouchable I think. Cuban will not give him up. 

Jimmy


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Teams would trade Allen, Brand, Artest (especially right
> ...


There is no way I'm trading Zach or Brand for Yao. I wouldn't give up the leagues best defender in Artest for a player who has yet to average 20 points or 10 rebounds in one season. 

I guess I want to know what has Yao done to be labled a star in this league?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jibikao</b>!
> So, will Yao be a Top 10 player? Probably not. *But he will be an all-star for many years because there are just so many Chinese people voting for him.* LOL
> 
> Jimmy


That's one of the most popular misconceptions in the NBA today. When Yao Ming was voted a starter, he was leading allstar ballots at NBA games, he's getting more votes from America and Canada than he does from China. Most people in China don't even watch basketball, it's like our best soccer player going and playing overseas... how many of yall would log on to soccerfan.com and vote for him to make the allstar, NOT ME.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> That's one of the most popular misconceptions in the NBA today. When Yao Ming was voted a starter, he was leading allstar ballots at NBA games, he's getting more votes from America and Canada than he does from China. Most people in China don't even watch basketball, it's like our best soccer player going and playing overseas... how many of yall would log on to soccerfan.com and vote for him to make the allstar, NOT ME.


You serious? More people voted for Yao in America and Canada than from China? Wow, that's a news to me. I guess it is a popular misconception. Where did you get that info? 

Well, there are a lot of asian people in North America though...lol I wonder if that helps. 

Anyway, there are not many good-quality centers these days so I guess it's no surprise that people voted for Yao. 

Jimmy


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> There is no way I'm trading Zach or Brand for Yao. I wouldn't give up the leagues best defender in Artest for a player who has yet to average 20 points or 10 rebounds in one season.
> ...


Yao's career averages in his third year in the NBA are only 4ppg below 20, and 1.5 boards below 10. He shoots over 50% from the field, He's the tallest man in the league. He an allstar every year. He represents a entire nation! Why wouldn't the NBA consider him a star?


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> Alot of teams would trade their top player for Yao, and since he's an allstar, depending on the trade I would trade an allstar for him.
> 
> Alot of Tmac fans have been posting how JVG's system sucks and it's harboring Tracy's game. Funny how you guys never consider that same scernario for Yao. Instead Yao's not valuble? If Tracy's still valueble and it's the system, you shoud see the value Yao Ming has as well.



That's definitely true. If you read today's Chron (Houston local
paper), players are not happy about Gundy's system. Tmac, 
Yao, Jackson all said they think too much on court and are 
afraid to make mistakes. Gundy grumpies too much. His system,
limiting possessions and mistakes, lows down the scores of 
both teams. No stat padders would want to play for or against
Gundy.

By the way, Yao is at least a 9+ rebounder if you pair him with
an above average rebounding PF. Right now we have the 
weakest rebounding PF in Mo Taylor so Yao has to fight several 
players to get the rebs. He also helps too much on the perimeter.
Shaq seldom guards opponent guards on 3pt line, but now it's
a routine for Yao. He's put in a bad rebounding position.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> Yao's current value = 40% play + 60% business
> 
> Rockets has tripled their incomes from sponsors after Yao's arrival.
> ...


Okay, I can understand this point. It is a business. But Yao being tall has nothing to do with how he produces. He popular b/c of Chinas vote. Even if 10% of the Chinese population watched basketball, that's still like half of America.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay, I can understand this point. It is a business. But Yao being tall has nothing to do with how he produces. He popular b/c of Chinas vote. *Even if 10% of the Chinese population watched basketball, that's still like half of America.*


Then consider that he get's more votes in America and Canada, and you should see he's popular not just in China but all over.


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay, I can understand this point. It is a business. But Yao being tall has nothing to do with how he produces. He popular b/c of Chinas vote. Even if 10% of the Chinese population watched basketball, that's still like half of America.


You must be kidding. Shaq led Yao in internet votes in both years.
He lost in paper votes in US and Canada. 

Chinese are not blind lovers of Yao. One thing for sure, they 
definitely dont hate Shaq and recognize he's a much better 
player. If you can read Chinese, you can find that the worst 
Yao haters are in China. There are more guys who dont necessarily hate Yao, but feel he's not good enough. They 
would rather not vote to help Yao because you know who 
they would vote.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I don't understand the logic how Yao would be a 9+ rebounder with a strong rebounding PF but can't be with a weak rebounding PF?

Should be the other way around.


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> I don't understand the logic how Yao would be a 9+ rebounder with a strong rebounding PF but can't be with a weak rebounding PF?
> 
> Should be the other way around.



Because oppenent can ignore Mo Taylor and box out Yao. 
Defensively Yao's often on the 3pt line because our slow and
short PG and weak PF can't guard their guys. We play worse
against perimeter centers because Yao has to run more on 
the perimeter.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> I don't understand the logic how Yao would be a 9+ rebounder with a strong rebounding PF but can't be with a weak rebounding PF?
> 
> Should be the other way around.


It shouldn't matter who is at PF. Look at J. O'neal and Amare.....who do they have at C that is notable? Either you rebound or you don't. Look at Brand and Dirk. Look at Marion....


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> It shouldn't matter who is at PF. Look at J. O'neal and Amare.....who do they have at C that is notable? Either you rebound or you don't. Look at Brand and Dirk. Look at Marion....



DAng, you looks like a Yao hater. Yao's an average rebounder, 
but he's good for at least 9 rbs if not paired with a 3rb PF. How 
many rbs J O'Neal and Amare have?


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not a Yao hater, I'm just not quick to call somebody a star who doesn't produce star type of numbers.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> 
> 
> You must be kidding. Shaq led Yao in internet votes in both years.
> He lost in paper votes in US and Canada.


this is true. most fans just don't want to believe that yao can be as popular as he actually is outside of China.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> this is true. most fans just don't want to believe that yao can be as popular as he actually is outside of China.


So what....popularity has nothing to do with what you do on the court. When Yao becomes a 20 and 10 guy, then he will deserve the star label. Yao gets votes just like Vince "Glass" Carter gets votes.......Yao gets them because he is tall and foreign while Vince gets votes just b/c he can dunk......but I'll leave "Glass" out of this


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, the players really said that? Damn, JVG's career is in danger now! Maybe you are right, maybe it is JVG's system that is holding BOTH T-MAC and Yao back. Maybe Yao will be a much better center on a different team who needs a good tall center badly? 

As much as I wish Rocket could win more, I still want my Mavs to win tonight. lol Sorry Yao.... 

Jimmy


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> So what....popularity has nothing to do with what you do on the court.


Yes, but popularity is a major part of being a star in the NBA. Besides, you're exagerrating stats. There's no rule that says you have to average this or that to be a star. Yao produces very good numbers, they may not be good enough for you, but most fans seem to see the value.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but popularity is a major part of being a star in the NBA. Besides, you're exagerrating stats. There's no rule that says you have to average this or that to be a star. Yao produces very good numbers, they may not be good enough for you, but most fans seem to see the value.


Let me ask you this.......If Chris Kaman (Center for the Clippers) averaged the same thing as Yao, would he be considered a star?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> Let me ask you this.......If Chris Kaman (Center for the Clippers) averaged the same thing as Yao, would he be considered a star?


If Kaman average Yao's numbers instead of the 2ppg adn 2rpg... and he was as popular as Yao why wouldn't he be a star? Do you realize how much better that would make the Clips?


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> If Kaman average Yao's numbers instead of the 2ppg adn 2rpg... and he was as popular as Yao why wouldn't he be a star? Do you realize how much better that would make the Clips?


You shouldn't have to be popular in order to be considered a star.....take Mike Redd for example. He's a star without the popularity. Yao is more hype than anything...


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## Ice Nine (Apr 3, 2004)

Let me put it this way: If Yao was Swahili instead of Chinese, nobody outside of Houston would give a damn about him.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have to be popular in order to be considered a star.....take Mike Redd for example. He's a star without the popularity. Yao is more hype than anything...


Come on now, if Redd is a star so is Yao.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Come on now, if Redd is a star so is Yao.


At least Redd gives you 20 a night......Yao should at least average 10 boards a game considering his height and the amount of playing time he gets.....Rik Smits did, Muresan did.....


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> At least Redd gives you 20 a night......Yao should at least average 10 boards a game considering his height and the amount of playing time he gets.....Rik Smits did, Muresan did.....


playing time? Yao Ming doesn't play but 30 minutes a game.


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> At least Redd gives you 20 a night......Yao should at least average 10 boards a game considering his height and the amount of playing time he gets.....Rik Smits did, Muresan did.....


Did you check Rik Smits' reb numbers? :
 


If Smits is a star, than Yao's a star.:


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you check Rik Smits' reb numbers? :
> ...


You got me on the Smits stats......I was wrong. I wasn't saying Smits was a star b/c he wasn't. I was trying to compare Yao's stat's to other players that were taller than 7'1. Smits only made the all-star team one year in his career, yet his numbers are similar to that of Yao's.......but for some reason, Yao will make the all-star team for years to come.


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

It's true Yao gets alot of votes in the US and Canada, but Canada and the Us are LOADED with Chinese people. The votes may not come from China but it is still chinese people stuffing the ballot for Yao. As for Yao being a star, i say he is overratted, he can be dominant at times against people who are way undersized ie Donyell Marshall, but it is so easy to front him and get him fouled ot of the game. He also has butterfingers and you can just take the ball from him easily if he is just standing still. He also always has this confused look on the court like he is lost or something and i have never seen a 7-5 guy lose so many damn jumpballs, Vince carter beat him once.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> Let me ask you this.......If Chris Kaman (Center for the Clippers) averaged the same thing as Yao, would he be considered a star?


He be more popular than Yao if that would happen. You know the nba fat cats are dying for a big tall WHITE American born dominant center for a while now. They had high hopes for "Big Country" but that failed.

Isn't there an unwritten rule that if you're at least 7 ft, white, you automatically get drafted in the nba?


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kg_mvp03-04</b>!
> It's true Yao gets alot of votes in the US and Canada, but Canada and the Us are LOADED with Chinese people. The votes may not come from China but it is still chinese people stuffing the ballot for Yao. As for Yao being a star, i say he is overratted, he can be dominant at times against people who are way undersized ie Donyell Marshall, but it is so easy to front him and get him fouled ot of the game. He also has butterfingers and you can just take the ball from him easily if he is just standing still. He also always has this confused look on the court like he is lost or something and i have never seen a 7-5 guy lose so many damn jumpballs, Vince carter beat him once.


There are still more whites, blacks and Latinas in the US than Chinese so whats your point?

Take a look at the population stats breakdown of US.


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kg_mvp03-04</b>!
> It's true Yao gets alot of votes in the US and Canada, but Canada and the Us are LOADED with Chinese people. The votes may not come from China but it is still chinese people stuffing the ballot for Yao. As for Yao being a star, i say he is overratted, he can be dominant at times against people who are way undersized ie Donyell Marshall, but it is so easy to front him and get him fouled ot of the game. He also has butterfingers and you can just take the ball from him easily if he is just standing still. He also always has this confused look on the court like he is lost or something and i have never seen a 7-5 guy lose so many damn jumpballs, Vince carter beat him once.



So why don't you stuff ballot for Yao? If I am not mistaken you are a Chinese too who 
would get high when Yao sucks. You 
know better Chinese is even far less atheletic
than white stiffs. Think about it, Boykins would dunk on you a million times each game.


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## Baron Davis (Apr 14, 2004)

I remember the NBA didn't even open voting for China in Yao's rookie season.

I think Yao has potential to be a good center, but it's not looking good so far. Him and Pau Gasol have similar stats though. I think Gasol and Yao are about the same, statwise, although their games are fairly different.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kg_mvp03-04</b>!
> It's true Yao gets alot of votes in the US and Canada, but Canada and the Us are LOADED with Chinese people. The votes may not come from China but it is still chinese people stuffing the ballot for Yao. As for Yao being a star, i say he is overratted, he can be dominant at times against people who are way undersized ie Donyell Marshall, but it is so easy to front him and get him fouled ot of the game. He also has butterfingers and you can just take the ball from him easily if he is just standing still. He also always has this confused look on the court like he is lost or something and i have never seen a 7-5 guy lose so many damn jumpballs, Vince carter beat him once.


us has less than 8 percent asians, and thats counting EVERY single asian race.

Most people in here keep saying 20 and 10. stats are nothing but a number, if you rely on stats to identify a star, you dont know basketball


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

yao is one of the most talked about nba player, simple as that. in terms of his game he may not be top 10 just yet, but with his size and fundamentals, the sky is the limit. he's already a very good player. Don't just look at his numbers. shawn marion can average 20/9, but he's not 7'5. there's a lot more than just the stat sheet. when you're 7'5, you're a major defensive threat. yao is just so tall that he alter numerous shots a game. they don't show up on the stats sheet, because they're not blocks, but that's the kind of impact yao has. offensively he's just as good. he's a mismatch nightmare for every single team in the nba, and that's why he's special.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> It depends on who my top player is. As a Celtic fan, I do consider Paul Pierce for Yao Ming, but probably decline. I don't think you'd get KG, Duncan, Kobe, Jermaine, Shaq, LeBron, or any of the top 15 players.


:laugh:


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> It depends on who my top player is. As a Celtic fan, I do consider Paul Pierce for Yao Ming, but probably decline. I don't think you'd get KG, Duncan, Kobe, Jermaine, Shaq, LeBron, or any of the top 15 players.


:whofarted


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