# Roy/Aldridge: Co-Rookies Of The Year?



## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

If Aldridge continues his tear of awesome games until the end of the season, how can you not consider that they both deserve a share of the R.O.Y.? Has there ever been co-winners before ON THE SAME TEAM? A quick look says no, but has there ever been two rookies on the same team that have been head-and-shoulders above their counterparts before?

"SPANISH CHOCOLATE, BABY!" heh. I love that commercial.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

I'm just hoping that Aldridge gets rookie of the month for March.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

chris_in_pdx said:


> If Aldridge continues his tear of awesome games until the end of the season, how can you not consider that they both deserve a share of the R.O.Y.? Has there ever been co-winners before ON THE SAME TEAM? A quick look says no, but has there ever been two rookies on the same team that have been head-and-shoulders above their counterparts before?.


I proposed the same thing here a few days ago. I think there's a chance it could happen if Aldridge keeps it up. This kind of thing (two rookies on the same team sharing Rookie of the Year) appeals to the NBA--Anything to be different, or groundbreaking, ya know. It would attract a lot of attention, and might actually be good for the NBA.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

I don't see it happening. How can you have co-ROYs on the same team and have that team finish in the bottom three of their conference? 

Maybe if the Blazers made the playoffs and raised some eyebrows . . . but I'm guessing the only fans who think the Blazer rookies deserve co-ROY are Blazer fans.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Nah, he hasn't been doing it long enough, and plenty of other rookies are putting up similar numbers Rudy Gay will come in second.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

This hurts any chance Bargnani had of catching Roy for ROY.



> Raptors' Bargnani has appendectomy
> 
> March 21, 2007
> 
> ...


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

who won west rookie of the month when roy was out?


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I don't see it happening. How can you have co-ROYs on the same team and have that team finish in the bottom three of their conference?


Why not? Only a lousy team would give significant playing time to two rookies anyway. Besides, if being on a lousy team is an impediment to winning, then Roy and Morrison have no shot at all. 



> Maybe if the Blazers made the playoffs and raised some eyebrows . . . but I'm guessing the only fans who think the Blazer rookies deserve co-ROY are Blazer fans.


Aldridge is probably playing better than any rookie in the league right now. The guy is fast becoming a dominant player, and may be the best player in last year's draft.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

I don't think he'd tie. He's still averaging under 10 a game, and there are other rookies that are doing just as good or better like Rudy Gay.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Talkhard said:


> Are you even paying attention? LaMarcus Aldridge is probably playing better than any rookie in the league right now. The guy is fast becoming a dominant player, and may be the best player in last year's draft.



Well if you want to be like that about it . . . are you paying attention? LA didn't make the rookie team and hasn't been mentioned by anyone as even being a canidate for ROY. 

If you are pay attention you would know that the ROY award is not based on what a rookie has done in one month but over the whole season. LA is playing great, but will not win ROY.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> How can you have co-ROYs on the same team and have that team finish in the bottom three of their conference?


They are arguably the two best players on the team right now, however.

Dan


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Well if you want to be like that about it . . . are you paying attention?


Sorry. You're right. I was out of line. Check your PMs.

A note to everybody else: Since the redesign of this site, we are no longer notified by email (or at least I'm not) when we get a new Private Message. You might want to check your mailboxes to see if you have any PMs.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

No one is going to catch Roy, it's to late for Aldridge. It would have been interesting if he played the whole season, but it's to late now.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

chris_in_pdx said:


> If Aldridge continues his tear of awesome games until the end of the season, how can you not consider that they both deserve a share of the R.O.Y.? Has there ever been co-winners before ON THE SAME TEAM? A quick look says no, but has there ever been two rookies on the same team that have been head-and-shoulders above their counterparts before?
> 
> "SPANISH CHOCOLATE, BABY!" heh. I love that commercial.


How is 8.5-4.7 head and shoulders above everybody else? ROY is an award for the entire season.

This is BRoy's award, and Andrea Bargagni comes in a far second.


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

I think the important thing to keep in mind is that we likely got the two best players in the draft.

If the draft was redone- Roy would probably go first and Aldridge second (or possibly third, given Barganini's performance and connection with the European imported GM)

Both of them look like future all-stars, especially Roy.

Hmmm...the better question is where Sergio would go if the draft was redone?

My guess is as follows:

1) Roy
2) Aldridge
3) Barganini
4) Garbajosa (or however you spell his name)
5) Gay
6) Sergio


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

Is there a rookie of the month for April (our last game is April 18th).
If there is, then there is a chance for LMA to win rookie of the month
for both months. If this were to happen, I think there'd be a chance
for co-ROY. As of 3/19 he's averaging 8 and 4.7 rebounds - it's really
way to low, good games or not. Looking over the stats, he's going
to have to lead the rookies in rebounding, blocks, and FG% to have a chance to tie ROY
who leads the rookies in minutes, PPG, and assists (and close to the lead
in steals and FT%).

Can he do it? Again, As of 3/19:
Rebounding: 4.7 (behind Milsap who has 4.9)
Blocks: 1.13 (ahead of Milsap who has 1.03)
FG%: 50.1 (behind Milsap who has 51.6)

Milsap is only averaging 6.6 PPG, but he's doing it in 17.5 MPG.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> I think the important thing to keep in mind is that we likely got the two best players in the draft.
> 
> If the draft was redone- Roy would probably go first and Aldridge second (or possibly third, given Barganini's performance and connection with the European imported GM)
> 
> ...


I seriously doubt that Bryan Colangelo agrees with you. He would likely pick AB again over Brandon Roy.

It's good that you guys are happy with your picks, which were good picks. Raptor GM and Raptor fans are more then happy with our first overall pick.

BTW, Garbajosa is 28 years old, and was a free agent. He was not draft eligible.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I think some of you fail to understand how this award is voted for... it is not voted on by a committee of NBA rep's.

It is voted on by members of the media who have no ties to the NBA, and they must vote for one winner (and I beleive a second and third place guy). Those votes are accumulated... even if Roy and Aldridge were equals this year (which they clearly are not), the likelihood of a tie would be remote.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> I think the important thing to keep in mind is that we likely got the two best players in the draft.
> 
> If the draft was redone- Roy would probably go first and Aldridge second (or possibly third, given Barganini's performance and connection with the European imported GM)
> 
> ...



Seriously, who the hell would rather have garbage-osa instead of :gay, foye, sergio, thabo, milsap, marcus williams, *tyrus thomas*, even ammo would be a better DRAFT PICK than him. Thats why he wasn't a draft pick.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

There's no way Aldridge will catch Brandon Roy and win co-ROY. Roy just has too big of a lead with only 15 games to go. Look at their current numbers:


```
Roy:     15.8 PPG, 4.2 RPG, 4.1 APG, EFF = 15.72
Aldridge: 8.5 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 0.4 APG, EFF = 10.35
```
Granted Aldridge has been playing out of his mind lately and turning a lot of heads. But there are only 15 games to go, and I'm not even sure if he can improve his numbers enough to move up into the second spot. Keep in mind many ROY voters simply look at scoring and vote accordingly (based on recent ROY voting). After last night's game Aldridge passed Jorge Garbajosa to move up to 6th in PPG among rookies. He still trails the following rookies in scoring:


```
Roy:      15.8
Morrison: 12.6
Bargnani: 11.5
Gay:      10.4
Foye       9.2
```
Realistically, he has a good chance to pass Foye by the end of the year, but catching any of the others would take a miracle and some seriosly bad play from those ahead of him. Morrison is falling steadily, but has too big a lead. Bargnani is out indefinitely, so he'll likely finish the season right about where he is now. Gay has scored in double-digits in 18 of the last 19 games since he's become a starter and averaged 16.05 PPG over that stretch. So, if anything his scoring average should continue to climb. For LaMarcus to average 10.0 PPG for the season, he'll need to average 15.67 PPG over the remaining 15 games - which is exactly what he's averaged over the last 9 games since he's become a starter. So, he need's to keep up his current amazing pace just to finish 5th in scoring among rookies and end the year averaging in double figures.

As for rebounding, he's currently 4th among rookies. However, this is one area where he's likely to move up as he's coming on strong and all three players in front of him are fading. Aldridge is currently averaging 4.7 RPG and here's the rookies currently ahead of him in RPG:


```
Millsap:   4.9
Williams:  4.8
Garbajosa: 4.8
```
To average 5.0 RPG for the season, Aldridge will need to average 6.07 RPG over the last 15 games. Not only is that entirely possible, I'll be disapointed it he doesn't. To end the season averaging 5.5 RPG, he'll need to average 8.47 RPG over the last 15. It's doable, but again he'd have to maintain the insane pace he's been playing at over the 9 games since he's become a starter (8.56 RPG over the last 9 games). I think we can forget 6.0 RPG as he'd need to crank it up to an even higher level (10.87 RPG over the last 15 games) to accomplish that.

So, realistically Aldridge could finish the year 5th in scoring at ~10.0 PPG and 1st in rebounding at 5 - 5.5 RPG. He currently leads all rookies in BPG and I don't see anyone catching him. He also has an excellent FG%, but I doubt it's a significant factor in ROY voting.

In terms of overall production, after last night's game he moved into third place in EFF at 10.35. Based on recent trends, he has a good chance to pass Garbajosa (currently EFF = 10.70 and falling), but staying ahead of Rudy Gay (currently 10.19) is going to be tough. Still, even if he finishes second in rookie EFF, I doubt if most ROY voters will notice. Based on past voting, they tend to give more weight to scoring than total production.

Based on recent trends, I'd say Aldridge has an excellent shot at making first team all-rookie and should finish in the top 5 in ROY voting. Due to his higher scoring average Morrison will get more ROY votes than he deserves. Bargnani is a wild card due to his injury. He's weaker than Aldridge in several ways (rebounding, blocked shots, FG%, EFF), but he seemed to be getting a lot of buzz as the 1st overall pick and the fact that he plays on a winning team. I have no idea how much any of that, or his late season injury, will affect ROY voters. So, depending on how they all finish out the season, I can see Aldridge anywhere from 2 - 5 in ROY voting. Exactly where, we'll have to wait and see. However, to place anywhere higher than 5th, I believe it's important he get his scoring average up to 10.0 PPG. If he can do that and lead all rookies in both RPG abd BPG, he has a legitimate shot at second - but no higher. 

A strong finish could also help as many voters seem to take a "what have you done for me lately" approach to ROY voting. It's always better to start slow and come on strong, like Aldridge, than to start strong and fade, like Garbajosa. Of course, the best way to win the ROY is to play well all season, like Brandon Roy.

BNM


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

drexlersdad said:


> Seriously, who the hell would rather have garbage-osa instead of :gay, foye, sergio, thabo, milsap, marcus williams, *tyrus thomas*, even ammo would be a better DRAFT PICK than him. Thats why he wasn't a draft pick.


Unless your trying to win this year, then no one. He wasn't drafted because he was ineligible for the draft.


If you are trying to infer that Garbajosa is "Garbage" then you are sadly mistaken. Most NBA teams would love to have this guy on there team.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> How is 8.5-4.7 head and shoulders above everybody else? ROY is an award for the entire season.
> 
> This is BRoy's award, and Andrea Bargagni comes in a far second.


He's certainly not head-and-shoulders above everyone else, and it will be interesting to see who gets the March rookie honors.

Bargnani and LA have each had 6 double digit scoring games this month, and each have had 3 single digit games, but Bargnani hasn't cracked 20 points while LA has done it 3 times.

Aldridge also has had double digit rebounds 4 times, while Bargnani has averaged under 5. LA has out-assisted him, remarkably enough, 5-4, and Bargnani has committed 21 TOs while LA has only made 7.

LaMarcus is kicking his *** this month, now that I look at it. And that gap should only widen as Aldridge starts another few games and Bargnani is out with the appendix.

Looking at LA's season and scoring average, it's these kinds of games that kill him there:

Nov 26. 3 minutes, 0 points
Dec 13. 4 minutes, 0 points
Dec 15. 4 minutes, 4 points
Dec 26. 6 minutes, 7 points
Dec 29. 4 minutes, 0 points
Dec 30. 9 minutes, 2 points
Jan 3. 9 minutes, 6 points
Jan 27. 8 minutes, 3 points

Bargnani had 4 games where he played single digit minutes (all at the VERY beginning of the season).

I'm interested to see what LA can do with continued long minutes...

Ed O.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Ed O said:


> He's certainly not head-and-shoulders above everyone else, and it will be interesting to see who gets the March rookie honors.
> 
> Bargnani and LA have each had 6 double digit scoring games this month, and each have had 3 single digit games, but Bargnani hasn't cracked 20 points while LA has done it 3 times.
> 
> ...


Aldridge vs Bargnani is an interesting debate that can go both ways. AB will still end up with the better pure scoring numbers, LA will have the "power" numbers although ratably they are not that good relative to his position (no comment on AB other then to say they are bad), his efficieincy is lower partly due to role on the team, there is the Raptors are a better team argument

Neither is competing with BRoy (even if AB had not been injured), I think we can agree that.

I don't really care who comes in second. At the end of the day both fan bases are happy with there picks.

I just don't understand the comment here made now and then that AB would not go first in the draft if it was redone. He would.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree with you Ed O. This is why it totally pisses me off that Nate didn't play him this season so we could shop Magloire. Most of those low minute games were either because of 2 reasons: Shopping Magloire or Lamarcus got into foul trouble and then Nate would just bring him back in. 

As for Draft order, I still today believe the players were correctly picked in the right order. One season does not make a career, and before its said and done, I believe they will both be excellent players that the draft order will be debated about. The thing you have to look at though is Brandon Roy came out as a college senior with 4 excellent years of college ball. Lamarcus came out as a Sophomore. Look how strong Lamarcus has came on now that he gets playing time. I fully expect the foul trouble games to bog him down here and there, all rookie bigs have those type of games. In 2 years though, you might be singing a different tune.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I agree it is too late for anyone to get ROY but Roy unless injury. 

But in the what have you done for me lately, Aldridge has certainly been doing well:

LAST 5 GAME STATS
Bargnani: ppg: 14.4, rpg: 5.4, apg: .6, bpg: 1, FG% .446 (Pretty darn good)
Aldridge:17.4, rpg: 9.6, apg: 1, bpg: 2.4, FG% .582 (freaking great)
Roy: 15.6, rpg: 6.4, apg: 4.2, bpg: .2, FG% .403 (Pretty darn good

Lately, it's all about LaMarcus (*the Cheetah*) Aldridge!


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Nate McVillain said:


> I agree it is too late for anyone to get ROY but Roy unless injury.


Roy would have had to get injured at least 5 games ago, probably 10, for it not to be a lock.

People have been trying to, and are still trying to, make a race out of nothing.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Concerning ROM for March, there is no contest between Aldridge and Bargnani for two reasons.

1) They play in different conferences
2) Bargnani is injured and will miss the rest of the month

As far as Western Conference ROM, it's a three horse race between Aldridge, Roy and Rudy Gay. Right now, I'd give a slight edge to Aldridge, but both the Grizz and the Blazers still have six more games this month - including a head-to-head match-up on the 29th.

In the East, Bargnani was having a decent, but not great month and would have won easily had he stayed healthy. Now that he's injured, nobody else jumps out as deserving. Rajon Rondo has been shooting horribly, but putting up good numbers in most other categories. Is someone who is averaging 7.2 PPG on 37% FG% and 58% FT% really deserving of ROM honors? 

I think they should just give the award to two Western Conference players this month. Can't we just pretend that Memphis is in the East? It is geographically.

BNM


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

It's kind of fun to speculate a little on who would be second place in ROY voting, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter a bit. Who came in second place last year for ROY? And the year before that? 

Most of us forget that stuff pretty quickly. As Jordan said, it's not how you start, it's how you finish. Aldridge is finishing this season on a complete tear, and I couldn't be happier about it. Five years from now a lot of NBA fans will look back and say, "Didn't Aldridge win ROY in 2007? Oh, it was Roy? Huh. Anyway, I knew it wasn't Morrison. Man that guy was a bust."


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I just don't understand the comment here made now and then that AB would not go first in the draft if it was redone. He would.


He might, unless someone would be willing to admit a mistake. 

Put Roy in Toronto and that team is significantly better than it is right now.

Ed O.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Ed O said:


> He might, unless someone would be willing to admit a mistake.
> 
> *Put Roy in Toronto and that team is significantly better than it is right now. *
> 
> Ed O.


I should have said he probably would.

As for the bolded part. Nope - he would be no better then Anthony Parker.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I should have said he probably would.


I'm razzing you. I know AB's had a good year and I think he was a solid choice and has a very good future.



> As for the bolded part. Nope - he would be no better then Anthony Parker.


I find that almost impossible to believe. But whatever 

Ed O.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

I love Anthony Parker. I actually followed him when he played for Macabi Tel Aviv and won a couple of Euroleague championships with them (and Saras) - but as nice as he is - there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that he is no Roy.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

I remember that Sabonis came in 2nd in Rookie of the Year, to Damon.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

andalusian said:


> I love Anthony Parker. I actually followed him when he played for Macabi Tel Aviv and won a couple of Euroleague championships with them (and Saras) - but as nice as he is - there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that he is no Roy.


Of course he is not the asset that Roy is due to his age. 

But Parker is considered a good perimeter defender, and I am sure he is at least an equal in this area.

While he scores a few points less then Roy, he is much more efficient scorer with a much higher FG% and 3Pt%. The Raptors also have more guys who can score the ball.

Roy is a good passer and better ballhandler, but those extra skills would be minimized due to the role he would have to play in Toronto. But his assist numbers would be way down in Toronto, as his ballhandling would be reduced due to the existence of TJ Ford and Jose Calderon.

YOu have to consider the role that Roy would be playing in Toronto.

The premise was that the Raptors would be way better with Roy in the lineup this year. That is just not the case. If you want to argue that Roy would make the Raps slightly better this year, be my guest. But to say they would be alot better, is inaccurate.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Roy on the Raps makes them legit ECF contenders....say what you want about Parker or Calderon, no one outside of Bosh has the clutch ability of Roy. He is the type of palyer that flourishes in any system.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

There is no way to tell for sure - but I think that Roy would have worked just fine in the Toronto line-up - both he and the team would have adjusted to a 2 that can handle better the 1 responsibilities - and can still play like a real 2. Again - I am not saying that Parker is bad - he is not - but Roy is special and I do not think the difference is so large that Roy would not be able to flourish in it.

ESIT: It is amazing and amusing to see that two people used the flourish word to describe Roy at the same time (honestly, I did not see MAS's reply before I posted mine)


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

andalusian said:


> There is no way to tell for sure - but I think that Roy would have worked just fine in the Toronto line-up - both he and the team would have adjusted to a 2 that can handle better the 1 responsibilities - and can still play like a real 2. Again - I am not saying that Parker is bad - he is not - but Roy is special and I do not think the difference is so large that Roy would not be able to flourish in it.
> 
> ESIT: It is amazing and amusing to see that two people used the flourish word to describe Roy at the same time (honestly, I did not see MAS's reply before I posted mine)


My point was not to make it look like Roy could not flourish in our system - he would. I was just trying to deflect the obvious statistical argument that was going to arise. 

Part of what makes Roy special is that he is doing this is as a rookie. But if he did the same thing when he's 28, would that be considered special? His performance this year, if we take away the whole context of years in the league, is good but not in the special category. You have to simply compare what he can provide this year as compared to AP.... and there might be some benefits but not huge... not 10 game huge which MAS seems to be implying.

This is going to be a hard board to win this argument on, so I'm not going to harp on it much.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

Aldridge hasn't done it long enough to be seriously considered. Roy's been consistently at the top the entire season.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Part of what makes Roy special is that he is doing this is as a rookie. But if he did the same thing when he's 28, would that be considered special? His performance this year, if we take away the whole context of years in the league, is good but not in the special category. You have to simply compare what he can provide this year as compared to AP.... and there might be some benefits but not huge... not 10 game huge which MAS seems to be implying.


I agree that Roy being a rookie makes his performance more special - but I would still say that there are times Roy should be considered a special smart player without factoring this into the equation. Example - I belive it was the last Blazers/Memphis game but I might be wrong - I was at the garden and one play made me shake my head and notice how special he is - Roy had the ball at the top of the key, I think it was Atkins that was guarding him and Memphis immediatly went to double team him with Pau Gasol - Roy saw it and dribbled back to break the double team, Pau quickly tried to get back to his man to ensure that Roy will not pass it. Roy noticed it and dribbled in the direction Pau was running basically bringing his defender into the running away Pau - so he was using the other team's double team to create his own pick. Atkins ran into Pau, Roy had some space and he converted the play. To me - this is a unique player. Someone who can see what is happening on the court, analyze it in real time and exploit the opposition's strength for his benefit (like a martial arts fighter). It is not a big, flashy play - but it is special.

As I said - I was lucky to have many business trips and see a lot of international game during that era of the great Maccabi Tel Aviv team in the Euroleauge - and it was clear to me that Saras and Parker were both NBA caliber players. I am not surprised that smart executives like Bird and CB were able to spot it too and bring them to the US as cheap contributers. But I have no doubts that Roy is a better player today, in his rookie year than Anthony Parker. He can create for himself better and he create for others around him a lot better than Parker. I do not think that when Parker was the #1 scoring option and #2 star in that Maccabi team against (and with) lesser talent he could take the game over as often and as consistently as Roy can. Again - I really like Parker and I am glad to see he landed in a situation that can utilize him - he is a good player - but I still think that Toronto would have been a much better team with Roy.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> My point was not to make it look like Roy could not flourish in our system - he would. I was just trying to deflect the obvious statistical argument that was going to arise.
> 
> Part of what makes Roy special is that he is doing this is as a rookie. But if he did the same thing when he's 28, would that be considered special? His performance this year, if we take away the whole context of years in the league, is good but not in the special category. You have to simply compare what he can provide this year as compared to AP.... and there might be some benefits but not huge... not 10 game huge which MAS seems to be implying.
> 
> This is going to be a hard board to win this argument on, so I'm not going to harp on it much.


I am assuming your point is that TJ Ford and Calderon, both having very good seasons, handle the ball, create wit the ball, have the ball a lot. And when they don't, they are dumping off to Bosh.

Anthony Parker's primary duties are to defend the perimeter, hit open shots, and add veteran stability to a fairly young rotation. Things he has done well, despite having blah total stats. Not his job to pile up the stats.

Roy is having a very good rookie season, and does a lot of his damage with the ball in his hands.

On the Raptors, subbing Roy for Parker, would either: 

cause Roy to change his game to essentially match that role of Parker's. Maybe it would better in some ways, worse in others. But to think Roy would have the total stats and overall impact he has had on the Blazers is a mistake.

or, Roy would battle TJ Ford and Calderon for ballhandling and thus playmaking and scoring opportunities, and Bosh for called plays and shots. Roy may put up more stats than Parker, but would the team really have more wins if Ford, Calderon and Bosh, who have been so excellent this season, give up shots to the rookie?

Is that your point?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Masbee said:


> I am assuming your point is that TJ Ford and Calderon, both having very good seasons, handle the ball, create wit the ball, have the ball a lot. And when they don't, they are dumping off to Bosh.
> 
> Anthony Parker's primary duties are to defend the perimeter, hit open shots, and add veteran stability to a fairly young rotation. Things he has done well, despite having blah total stats. Not his job to pile up the stats.
> 
> ...


That is basically my point, and the fact that Anthony Parker is doing a great job. Roy would conceivably be better but not significantly such that it would have a huge impact on the win column (all theory of course)... but somehow I think I am being set up here. :biggrin:


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

JuniorNoboa said:


> The premise was that the Raptors would be way better with Roy in the lineup this year. That is just not the case. If you want to argue that Roy would make the Raps slightly better this year, be my guest. But to say they would be alot better, is inaccurate.


Sure. How would having a clutch, go-to guard that can create his own shot with the game on the line possibly make the Raptors much better? 

Parker is a bench player that is just plugging a whole for the Raptors. He's solid, but there's a reason he's played on 3 teams in 4 seasons. He's not all that talented.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

craigehlo said:


> Sure. How would having a clutch, go-to guard that can create his own shot with the game on the line possibly make the Raptors much better?
> 
> Parker is a bench player that is just plugging a whole for the Raptors. He's solid, but there's a reason he's played on 3 teams in 4 seasons. He's not all that talented.


BTW, the Raps have one of the best records in the NBA in close games. Roy can't turn our 8-3, into 12-(-1)

The question is how are we going to define much better - if we are talking turning the raps into a 45 win team to a 55 win team which was seemingly implied earlier (the implication of a prior poster was that with Roy we would be ECF favorites), then yes I think it is inaccurate, especially if he is replacing AP. If he is coming in and replacing Pape Sow on our roster, and every one's role is shifted down a bit, then he will have even more impact, but still not 10 wins.

So are we talking 2-5 games or 10 games? Let's get that context settled.. I am willing to accept that he would help us get 3-4 wins over the course of a season which is significant.

Parker is more then a bench player - if you assess him as such then of course your going to think Roy is going to make a larger impact, but your judgement will be tainted by your inaccurate assessment of Parker. But like Blazers fans with Roy, you can't appreicate AP until you watch him alot. And you have not seen him alot (and don't know his history in the NBA either)


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

JuniorNoboa said:


> And you have not seen him alot (and don't know his history in the NBA either)


First off, The Raptors might be the team I've seen the most of outside The Blazers, Heat and Spurs this season. I've watched every Sunday matinée game on League Pass and suffered though many games when Bosh was out. Anthony Parker was on my fantasy hoops team for a while when the Raps inserted him into the starting lineup, so I followed his production closely. I also caught the Raptors play in the Rose Garden last December (AP scored 13 points and Roy missed a triple double off the bench by 2 assists).

That being said, Parker is not a starter on most NBA teams. He efficient, knows his role and plays solid perimeter D. He's not great creating his own shot, slashing and finishing at the rim. 

He's no scrub, but nowhere near the player Roy is already.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I like watching Raptors games, their announcers are the most down to earth neutral announcers that call it how it is that I have seen. They always complement the opposing teams good points too, being honest.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

craigehlo said:


> That being said, Parker is not a starter on most NBA teams. He efficient, knows his role and plays solid perimeter D. He's not great creating his own shot, slashing and finishing at the rim.
> 
> He's no scrub, but nowhere near the player Roy is already.


Sounds an awful lot like our own Ime Udoka. Ime is a great story, a solid "glue guy" who does all the little things and knows his role. I hope the Blazers resign him, but I also hope we don't go into next season with him as our stating 3. Nothing against Ime and what he's accomplished this year, but I view him as more of a bench guy than a long term starter. He's filling the starting role right now becuase we don't have anyone better. Hopefully, that will be addressed in the draft or via trade this off season.

BNM


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Boob-No-More said:


> Sounds an awful lot like our own Ime Udoka. Ime is a great story, a solid "glue guy" who does all the little things and knows his role. I hope the Blazers resign him, but I also hope we don't go into next season with him as our stating 3. Nothing against Ime and what he's accomplished this year, but I view him as more of a bench guy than a long term starter. He's filling the starting role right now becuase we don't have anyone better. Hopefully, that will be addressed in the draft or via trade this off season.
> 
> BNM


Given that he'll need surgery in the off-season, I don't think Ime views himself as a starter, either. He would be a solid sixth man for this -- I hope Portland brings him back!


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> There's no way Aldridge will catch Brandon Roy and win co-ROY. Roy just has too big of a lead with only 15 games to go. Look at their current numbers:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


great breakdown/post. I'm not big on awards in general, but I do like winning(s). I like that both Roy and Aldridge are looking like solid studs for the future. I especially like that they are well rounded in their talents. Is Roy a better 1 or 3? 

STOMP


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

If the argument here is that had the Raps drafted Roy instead of Bargnani, and have Roy replace Parker at the 2 and thus making them a much better team, the answer is an obvious no. Parker is valued for his perimeter defense, outside shooting, and hustle plays. At this stage of their careers, Parker is at least on par with Roy in those categories. Raptor's European style of play does not utilize Roy's ballhandling abilities. I dare to say that had Roy went to the Raps and Bargnani to the Blazers, the ROY race would be much closer today perhaps with Bargnani or Aldridge leading the race. In other words, Roy will not put up 16-4-4 had he been with the Raps.

Basically, you get a minor upgrade(debatable at least for this year) at the 2 with Roy yet loses big up front by not having Bargnani. If anything, it will make the Raps a worse team than they are right now. Not to take anything away from Roy, I think he is a terrific player and pick for the Blazers, the Raps got the right person with AB with the first pick.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

seifer0406 said:


> Raptor's European style of play does not utilize Roy's ballhandling abilities.


The Raptors' style of play is lot more like the Blazer than you may think. They both run a ton of plays through their PF. Roy's been able to put up respectable numbers in an offense where he's not the first (and sometimes not the second) option.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

craigehlo said:


> The Raptors' style of play is lot more like the Blazer than you may think. They both run a ton of plays through their PF. Roy's been able to put up respectable numbers in an offense where he's not the first (and sometimes not the second) option.


Many teams run their offense through their inside player. Beyond that, I do not see how the 2 teams are similar. The Blazers don't have any big man that can pass just like the Raptors don't have any big man that can dominate in the post. As good as Bosh is he is not someone who can overpower people down low like Randolph, they are different players.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

seifer0406 said:


> Many teams run their offense through their inside player. Beyond that, I do not see how the 2 teams are similar. The Blazers don't have any big man that can pass just like the Raptors don't have any big man that can dominate in the post. As good as Bosh is he is not someone who can overpower people down low like Randolph, they are different players.


It's a while since Zbo has been dominating the inside. He's gradually been drifting further out as the season has progressed.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Zach plays mainly inside, but when Mags is in he is ask at times to play outside to open up the middle some.

It's nice having the Blazers play without him because they sit around to much when Zach is in the game and they need to learn to move without the ball more and not depend on him as much because he has shown he'll pass the ball when other players are moving and give him a target.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

this game showed that Zach and Magloire should never be on the court at the same time. and it made me an even bigger proponent of trading Zach + Jack + other parts for a quality PF/C (if we can't draft one).


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

Boob-No-More said:


> Sounds an awful lot like our own Ime Udoka. Ime is a great story, a solid "glue guy" who does all the little things and knows his role. I hope the Blazers resign him, but I also hope we don't go into next season with him as our stating 3. Nothing against Ime and what he's accomplished this year, but I view him as more of a bench guy than a long term starter. He's filling the starting role right now becuase we don't have anyone better. Hopefully, that will be addressed in the draft or via trade this off season.
> 
> BNM


Sorry, couldn't disagree more. Ime contributes more than Bruce Bowen (has better stats),
and it's understood that Bowen is a quality starter for a championship caliber team.
Basically, defensive players don't get the respect they deserve. We'll probably
draft a SF and stick him in front of Ime. However, we'll be a worse defensive team
and a worse 3pt shooting team for it. One thing people underestimate from Ime is
that he is a strong contributor without taking shots away from Roy/Zach.

That being said, I think we should draft a SF, but only because an SF will be the
best player available.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

mook said:


> it made me an even bigger proponent of trading Zach + Jack + other parts for a quality PF/C (if we can't draft one).


The last few games have shown that LA really should play the PF spot. He's a great defender there and is improving offensively.

Any Zbo trade should be for a C or SF. Then we can address the final position we need to fill via the draft.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

wizmentor said:


> Sorry, couldn't disagree more. Ime contributes more than Bruce Bowen (has better stats),
> and it's understood that Bowen is a quality starter for a championship caliber team.
> Basically, defensive players don't get the respect they deserve. We'll probably
> draft a SF and stick him in front of Ime. However, we'll be a worse defensive team
> ...


I wasn't comparing Ime to Bruce Bowen, I was comparing him to Anthony Parker. However, if you want to bring Bowen into the discussion, I'm game. First, while Ime is a good defender, he's no Bruce Bowen. Bowen has been 1st team NBA All-Defense for the last three years and 2nd team All-Defense for the three years before that. Bowen has come in second in DPOY voting the last two years to Ben Wallace. He's clearly one of the top defenders in the league, and many would call him THE top perimeter defender in the entire NBA over the last five years. Ime's offensive numbers are better than Bowen's, especially this year (Bowen lead the league in 3FG% during the 2002-2003 Spurs championship season, however). With Duncan, Parker and Ginobili, the Spurs don't really need much in the way of offense out of Bowen. While the Blazers are getting better with the emergence of Roy and Aldridge, they can't come close to the offensive production of the Spurs big three offensive weapons on a nightly basis.

I also don't think it's a given that the Blazers will be worse defensively and a worse 3-point shooting team if they replace Ime. It depends on who they replace him with. 

But, that has little to do with why I said: "_I view him as more of a bench guy than a long term starter_". First, Ime will turn 30 this summer and will be well past his prime by the time this young Blazers team is ready to go deep in the play-offs. He is a short term stop gap starter, but we will need someone younger, and hopefully better, in their prime four years down the road when Roy, Aldridge, Sergio, Jack, Webster, Outlaw etc. are all starting to approach their peak performance. Ime may still be a good role player at 34, but I doubt if he'll even be as good then as he is now.

Also, don't assume it's a given we will even be able to re-sign Ime. After the year he's had, I'm sure he's turned some heads and should be in for a well deserved substantial pay raise. He will be an unrestricted free agent and free to follow the money anywhere it takes him. I'd love the Blazers to re-sign him, but wouldn't blame him one bit if he went elsewhere for more money. At his age, this is probably his one and only chance for a big payday. He's earned it.



wizmentor said:


> That being said, I think we should draft a SF, but only because an SF will be the
> best player available.


Who the Blazers should take will depend on who's available and what their long term plans are for Zach. If they plan to trade Zach and move LaMarcus to the 4, AND a quality 5 is available when they pick, they should grab him as quality young 5s are a rare commodity. If there are no good centers available (and I think there are only two in this draft - assuming both Oden and Hawes declare), then I agree you to go for the best 3 on the board. It's a position where we need a long term solution, and with no guarantee we will re-sign Ime, perhaps the postion we most need a short term solution as well. Unless the Blazers get lucky in the lottery, I suspect they will end up taking a 3.

BNM


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## PhilK (Jul 7, 2005)

craigehlo said:


> That being said, Parker is not a starter on most NBA teams. He efficient, knows his role and plays solid perimeter D. He's not great creating his own shot, slashing and finishing at the rim.
> 
> He's no scrub, but nowhere near the player Roy is already.


Sorry to disappoint you mate- But You're Awfully wrong. 

As A season ticked holder of Maccabi Tel-Aviv, for the last 3 years- I've had a chance to watch all of Anthony's home game performances from 11 Rows up. 

Well, The guy Is super-Intelligent. He's the combination that I really see in Brandon Now. Willingess to help the team, Intelligence, Great and Smiling Off the court player, Etc. However, And that's my big point- Where I think you're wrong. Playing In Europe, Anthony Has won 2 Euroleague MVP titles. MVP titles, Believe it or not, Are not being awarded just like that - Especially when players like Sabas(Zalgiris), Sarunas Jasikevicius, Dejan Bodiroga come behind. 

I don't want to sound harsh- But Anthony Was the Kobe Bryant of Europe. He'd do everything. Shoot the 3, Penetrate through the lane and Dunk it over Shot blockers, Make Endless amount of tough Fade-Aways at the end of game and shot-clocks. He Was a pure Show-Time Scorer/Highflyer. You can ask every fan that Witnessed his greatness in Europe. The only thing that didn't get him 35 PPG, is his intelligence. Again, Kobe Bryant of Europe. Just a Pass-first, Shoot 2nd Kobe Bryant. Sounds Impossible? Well. That's just the way he was. 

That's funny. I really see the Imagination between Anthony and Brandon. And not once, Brandon Reminded me Anthony, at every aspect of the game. They're both Super-Mature professionals- Ultra Intelligent. That's what Separates them from a lot of Stars in the NBA. 

But Let me tell you this- Today, Anthony at 31, and Brandon at 22- I could tell that Anthony's a much more complete player. He's the total package offensively. Clear out for him - And he'll give you 23PPG on great percentages. The guy's so modest and smart - That he would let Bargs, Ford, Bosh - Steal the show on every night. 

BUT- and the big but comes here- Anthony's 31. It took him a lot to reach the level of game he has reached. At the age of 22, Parker Probably wasn't as complete as Martell is today. That's what makes Brandon a huge standout - His level of Maturity, Intelligence, and Understanding of the game - And this Young age. 

Personally, I Listen to Wheels and 'Tone every Blazers at the Audio League Pass (Can't get Video LP Overseas)- And of course- Watch Highlights and full games when I get the chance. So that you wouldn't think I'm some kind of Israeli Biased Outsider..


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

The Trib said:


> Aldridge arrived at training camp in October at about 230 pounds. *Today, he is pushing 250.*
> 
> “You can see it with his shirt off,” says Bobby Medina, the Blazers’ strength and conditioning coach the past decade. “He looks totally different. It’s a tribute to the work he has put in. LaMarcus is one of our leaders in the weight room. That’s unusual for such a young guy.”
> 
> ...


Goodness. 

If he's nearing 250 now, after only a year of weight work, he's going to be 260-270 when he hits his prime, with plenty of pace up and down the floor. He can talk about being a PF as much as he wants, but he's going to be a center when it's all said and done.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Some Aldridge talk today on the ESPN David Thorpe chat: http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=15154

----
Todd (Lexington, Tn): Lamarcus Aldridge is really playing well right now. Is he a 20 and 10 guy in the league for the future or is this current streak just end of the season and teams not playing hard? 

David Thorpe: (12:41 PM ET ) 20 and 10 is possible. I thought Bargnani was going #1, but a case could have been made for L.A. 
----
Ted (NY): In 5 years who should be better Bargnani or Aldridge? 

David Thorpe: (12:42 PM ET ) L.A. 
----
Steve Chicago: Aldridge or Tyrus Thomas in 5 yrs? 

David Thorpe: (12:43 PM ET ) Wow-tough one. Maybe TT if he gets a jumper.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

andalusian said:


> Some Aldridge talk today on the ESPN David Thorpe chat: http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=15154
> 
> ----
> Todd (Lexington, Tn): Lamarcus Aldridge is really playing well right now. Is he a 20 and 10 guy in the league for the future or is this current streak just end of the season and teams not playing hard?
> ...


That's great, given Thorpe's vast experience as a GM and high ranking scout in NBA organizations... oh wait, he's a trainer.

I guess we will just have to keep faith with that scrub Bryan Colangelo.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

I just don't get all the tyrus hype? He's Travis Outlaw without a jump shot to me.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I guess we will just have to keep faith with that scrub Bryan Colangelo.


You don't really have much choice, do you? Whether he's generally right or not doesn't determine whether he was right in this case.

Of course, given the way LA has played lately it makes sense that you'd be a bit defensive about the pick. 

Ed O.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> That's great, given Thorpe's vast experience as a GM and high ranking scout in NBA organizations... oh wait, he's a trainer.
> 
> I guess we will just have to keep faith with that scrub Bryan Colangelo.


I already said, and so did Thorpe that you could take AB/LA as #1/#2 or the other way around - so let's not get too defensive. Never called BC a scrub either. Both players are great with a bright future - but LaMarcus is only now starting to get the minutes and the production to be noticed out of the local fan base.

I would not be surprised if AB turns into a fantastic player and I would not be surprised if LA does. I would actually be surprised if either one does not, to be honest, from the little that we have seen them so far.

I am surprised about the TT comment, however.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Ed O said:


> You don't really have much choice, do you? Whether he's generally right or not doesn't determine whether he was right in this case.
> 
> Of course, given the way LA has played lately it makes sense that you'd be a bit defensive about the pick.
> 
> Ed O.


Not really. I juat find it strange that a trainer is being used as an NBA expert for a website. Many posters on here are just as credible.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Not really. I juat find it strange that a trainer is being used as an NBA expert for a website. Many posters on here are just as credible.


With all due respect - if some people no one ever gave much chance to succeed like Kevin Martin or Udonis Haslem credit him as the reason their game improved and became NBA worthy - you can say that he has some idea about what player evaluation and individual coaching. I imagine there are some people on this board that could rival his knowledge - but I certainly am not one of them. He might be a talking head - but he is not Stephen A. Smith...


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

I'm hoping for Lamarcus to have 2 HUGE games to finish out March so he can hopefully win Rookie of the Month.

From Barrett's blog - 

March Averages:
Roy - 18 pts - 6 rbs - 5 assts
Aldridge - 16 pts - 9 rbs - 2 blks

http://mikebarrettsblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/roy-and-aldridge-set-to-host-grizz.html


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

B_&_B said:


> I'm hoping for Lamarcus to have 2 HUGE games to finish out March so he can hopefully win Rookie of the Month.
> 
> From Barrett's blog -
> 
> ...


I'm planning to post a special month-end version of my Rookie EFF update on the 31st. I've got the spreadsheet all set up and ready to enter the last two games' worth of stats. I hope both guys have two more big games and finish the month with EFF ≥ 20.00. As it currently stands, Aldridge is at EFF = 20.23 and Roy is at EFF = 19.00 for March. Next is Rudy Gay at 13.54. So, it's clearly a two man race for WC ROM at this point. To have one rookie pushing EFF = 20 for the month would be great. To have two is unbelievable.

BNM


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