# Stoudemire dumps on Chan/Curry



## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

From the ChiTrib

Layups: They were calling it Stoudemire-itis here. Chandler, who apparently tried to provoke Phoenix rookie Amare Stoudemire when the Suns played in Chicago last week, missed the trip. Stoudemire, who was impressive again with 10 first-half points coming off the bench Wednesday, told teammates Chandler has been upset with him since an AAU game when both were in high school. Stoudemire said he dunked on Chandler to open the game. Stoudemire last year also predicted he would be better prepared for the NBA out of high school than Curry or Chandler, saying, "I think my work ethic is a little higher than theirs. They're not really playing hard."

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This makes me smile. No better way to set a fire under our young guys than to see this in print. I hope Cartwright has this taped to both of these players' lockers, because this is exactly the type of crap they need to hear to get their butts in gear on the court. Thank you Stoudemire, we'll use this to motivate us next time we play (just hope Chandler doesn't lose his head).


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

agreed, if anything will light a fire under them its one of their peers talking trash like this, let alone someone who hasnt even proven jack in the NBA level!

btw. love your sig!


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

The Three Year Program:
02-03 8th Seed in Playoffs
03-04 4th Seed in Playoffs
04-05 In the Finals

Good luck with all that. No way the Bulls make the playoffs this year, let alone jump to the 4th spot next year and the finals the year after. Be realistic. If the Bulls work hard and their young improve the way they are supposed to, you have a shot at the 8th next year, but you have 0 chance this year. I probably wont remember to come back to this thread, so if you have that big of a problem with what I said then PM me.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

the bulls are better then the clippers last year who could have made the playoffs


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> the bulls are better then the clippers last year who could have made the playoffs


Johhny B, thats just not true.
Kandi vs curry > clippers
Brand vs any bulls pf > clippers
odom/maggette vs Rose > clippers/tie
Q. Rich vs any bulls SG > clippers
Mcinnis vs any bulls pg > clippers

I think you were just trying to get me to reply and it worked :laugh: 
the only tie you have is rose/ maggette and with his youth and athleticism that is debatable now and maggette will become much better than rose IMO


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

The development over one year, and the erosion of the good teams, should not be underestimated. The NBA is almost as transient as the NFL, with teams like New Jersey shooting to the top and teams like Miami taking huge spirals, for apparently no real reason. And Pitino's sorry days in Boston weren't so long ago, and the Clips' ascension from the gutter of the NBA was pretty quick too.

The Clips would easily have made the playoffs in the East last year, and I think we can see a similar talent pool in Chicago. Fans from across the league will give props to Rose and Jay Williams, and Eddy Curry is making the splash as the real deal. I think most agree that Tyson is developing on a Jermaine O'Neal type pace, although somewhat accelerated because of his significant PT. Donyell Marshall is a legitimate player, as is Trenton Hassell and Marcus Fizer. Jamal Crawford, while still something of a mystery, certainly has the talent and potential to be anywhere from a HUGE player to just a decent one.

To get back on topic... Amare Stoudamire is going to be a big deal. We didn't see Chandler or Curry tearing up pre-season games like Stoudamire is, and he'll be in a good position to get just the right amount of minutes as the 6th man off the bench backing up a brittle Gugs and a foul-prone Big Jake. His insane amount of energy will run amok, as he develops court skills at the same time. 

Give this guy a chance and he'll resemble the KG/Kobe high school ascension more than the Jermaine/Al Harrington/T-Mac delayed ascension.

He's going to make teams that picked ahead of him regret it, specifically Golden State (could have used a high energy backup to Antawn/Dampier and used him at SF), Denver (Nickoloz is probably going to be the bust of the lottery), and possibly the Clippers (Wilcox is an athletic freak as well, but Stoudamire is younger and they are both equally raw IMO).

The Suns are an exciting team, and post Lakers-Kings era they will be poised to swoop in. Starbury, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, Amare, Casey Jacobsen for the shooting (and he's a tougher player than most think)... Big Jake to be an adequate tough center presence... this is a pretty decent team. With veterans like Penny, Bo Outlaw, and Scott Williams, the team has a lot of balance and a lot of offense. Defense will be the issue here, but Amare is in a really good place right now....


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> Johhny B, thats just not true.
> Kandi vs curry > clippers
> ...


it wasnt my intention to get you to reply, but i like seeing my name plastered on your signature anyhow :yes: 


heres the matchup

pg-Jwil/Crawford > Mcinnis/Dooling ....UGHHH!!
sg-Rose-Hassel > Pike/Quentin
sf-Marshall/Erob > Magette/ 24-game Odom
pf-Chandler/Fizer/Baxter/Marshall < Brand/Miles
c-Curry/Chandler = Olowakandi

-jwil and crawford is better then mcinnis who you guys just let go for nothing

-jalen Rose and Trenton Hassel are better then Q and Pike

-Donyell Marshall and Erob are better then Magette, a 24-game Odom and miles

-Elton brand and Miles are better then Chandler, Fizer, Marshall and Baxter

-Kandiman and Eddy curry are tied, kandiman was a bust up until the end of last season, curry is showing mad skills already

but even if you put kandiman over eddy, the bulls still are a better overall team on paper then the clippers or last year


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> 
> it wasnt my intention to get you to reply, but i like seeing my name plastered on your signature anyhow :yes:
> ...


How do you put Jay will and JC over Mcinnis for starters who now starts for the Trailblazers who are among the most deep talented team in the league. And dooling has more talent and potential than both bulls PG's as long as he stays healthy (at least right now, who knows how fast the three players will develop) We let Mcinnis go for nothing because we got Dre and Marco and already had dooling. 
Q Rich/ Pike combo is better than Rose and Hassel, Pike can score and is much better than Hassel, and now he has the perfect pg in Dre who is gonna give him a ton of looks (he was 3rd in 3pt%) just look at his ppg this preseason with only 2 starters on the floor. Rose = overrated and is selfish.

Kandi IS better than Curry
L.O. and Maggette are much better than marshall and erob (both I like though)

If all your comparisons are true you should almost post a 500 record like the clips did last year (and thats in the east). Newsbreak - it aint gonna happen


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

LOL i stopped reading your post after you said Q/pike and magette are better then Rose/Marshall and Hassel, LO didnt play much last year so he dosent count really

besides, we're talking about LAST years clippers, Q and maggete werent as good as they are now


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Tie at PG
Bulls win at SG
Clips win at SF
Clips win at PF
Clips win at C

Thats 3 to one. Sorry Johnny, Clips win. The tie at PG could easily go to the Bulls depending on how Jay turns out. But you guys overhype Crawford at every chance you get. The guy is no better than Dooling, and neither of them are that great at all at this point in time.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> LOL i stopped reading your post after you said Q/pike and magette are better then Rose/Marshall and Hassel, LO didnt play much last year so he dosent count really
> 
> besides, we're talking about LAST years clippers, Q and maggete werent as good as they are now


Yeah, I got a chuckle out of that too. Sorry Clip man, Rose & Hassell straight drub Q & Pike. Plus, I would take EITHER JWill or JC over Dooling every day. Dooling has some potential, but he's in a different universe than JWill & Crawford IMHO.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Tie at PG
> Bulls win at SG
> Clips win at SF
> ...


Great analysis from a guy who doesn't even think the Bulls have a shot at an 8 seed in the east this year. Man, anyone who follows an eastern team should be able to tell you that the east is WIDE open. And how do the clips win at sf? I can see it if Odom was healthy, but he hasn't been for some time now.


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## TJ (Jul 23, 2002)

McInnis is not starting for the Blazers, Stoudmire is.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

Uggg......Anyone who thinks Donyell Marshall and Erob is better than Odom, Miles and Maggette is obviously biased as hell.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TJ</b>!
> McInnis is not starting for the Blazers, Stoudmire is.




Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they split time though.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> Uggg......Anyone who thinks Donyell Marshall and Erob is better than Odom, Miles and Maggette is obviously biased as hell.


Yeah, they are MUCH better, if Odom is healthy...


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, they are MUCH better, if Odom is healthy...


yep, out 3/4th of the season last year


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, I got a chuckle out of that too. Sorry Clip man, Rose & Hassell straight drub Q & Pike. Plus, I would take EITHER JWill or JC over Dooling every day. Dooling has some potential, but he's in a different universe than JWill & Crawford IMHO.


I can see Rose and Q being about equal but Q is getting better with every game and will soon pass Rose. Pike is better than hassel, look at the stats, when has hassel ever finished top 5 in any catagory. IMO those PG are all in the same universe.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> I can see Rose and Q being about equal but Q is getting better with every game and will soon pass Rose. Pike is better than hassel, look at the stats, when has hassel ever finished top 5 in any catagory. IMO those PG are all in the same universe.


we're talking about last year, the bulls can make the playoffs because the clippers of last year were close


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

*Anyone...*

...remember the Miller-Miles deal?

How about McInnis to the Blazers?

You call yourself a fan!

:laugh:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Anyone...*



> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> ...remember the Miller-Miles deal?
> 
> How about McInnis to the Blazers?
> ...


Um i could be wrong but they were comparing the bulls team this year to last years clippers. So yes, those players would be included in the talk


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> Johhny B, thats just not true.
> Kandi vs curry > clippers
> ...


Looks like a clean sweep to me. Johnny B your statement is pretty laughable. Be real


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

*Why was Baxter included, then...*

?? ??


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## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

Showtyme's argument is the one I've based my predictions on. I'm optimistic that the Bulls will make the play-offs this year. clearly there are a lot of variables involved, mainly injuries and player development. How you project the growth of our players is really important in assessing this team, and the many other young teams out there. The team we have at the end of the year will be vastly different than the team at the beginning of this year without making a single roster change simply through individual growth and team growth. We have our leaders, we have talent, we have a coach, we have depth. Experience comes with time, and I say, our time as Bulls fans is fast approaching. Whatever the final record is at the end of this season, it's really how this transformation takes place that interests me.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: Anyone...*



> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> ...remember the Miller-Miles deal?
> 
> How about McInnis to the Blazers?
> ...


Oh my god we traded D-Miles   what are we gonna do with out Mcinnis? 
Yeah I call myself a fan.:yes:


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

We are not talking about a injured Odom. If you want to bring up injuries than we should talk about The Toe aka E-Rob.When healthy do you really have a better sf than Odom
Trenton is pretty much a non factor at sg, not that he is horrible. Im not saying Q was better than Rose last year, yet I don't think he is far off. So if you combine both players at the two(Q and Pike vs Rose and Trenton) we overtake them. You might have us or tie us at pg


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: Anyone...*



> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> ...remember the Miller-Miles deal?
> 
> How about McInnis to the Blazers?
> ...


 
Do you even know what we are talking about?


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

*Just joking, anyways (obviously)...*



> Oh my god we traded D-Miles what are we gonna do with out Mcinnis?


 

How is it that any argument involving young players turns into a Bulls-Clippers debate? :laugh:


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## LoaKhoet (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> 
> pg-Jwil/Crawford > Mcinnis/Dooling ....UGHHH!!
> ...


Nice Jon!

U don't just look at each position separately. U have to look as a whole. One thing that we have and the Clippers didn't is "a veteran Leader". Yes, I am talking about Rose. The Clippers didn't have anybody like Rose last year. Not to dish the Clippers but they weren't as motivated to win as we are. 

Now if you want to talk about each position!!! I can do that too. 

I dare u comparing Kandiman to Curry. Just into his second year, Curry will be better than the Kandiman's 5th year. Curry scores like THUNDER. Defensively, not very good but give him 2 months into the season. That's the center position alone.

Let's talk about the PG position. I am sorry but please explain to me "how can McInnis be better than either JWill"? 

Ok, now lets talk about the PF position. You, the Clippers, do have an all-star PF and we don't. But if u look at our many PFs, we do have anough to defend or at least slow down Brand. Still u have an edge.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: Just joking, anyways (obviously)...*



> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cause the subject of this thread was worthless in the first place, it had already been discussed in an identicle one yesterday, and besides we like talking about the Bulls and the Clippers. Both teams have great fans. And this is gonna make the head to head matchups crazy important.:starwars:


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> 
> 
> Nice Jon!
> ...


My opinion is within the quote I messed up.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

Hey guys, remember Stoudamire will turn 20 next month. He is younger than Chandler but older than Curry. He should be more ready for the NBA than Chandler and Curry were.

Before getting too worked up about Stoudamire, I would wait until we find out what happens when he gets bored or frustrated. I think he ran through a lot of schools as a HSer and that may indicate that he does not handle adversity very well. This year he will experience some adversity at some point, and it will be interesting to see how he handles it.

Chandler and Curry seemed to grow from their poor performances and DNP-CDs, so it will be interesting to see how Stoudamire does when he faces adversity. Also, with Penny, Marbury, and Googs around, he has plenty of examples of players who showed great potential, but never quite lived up to that great potential.


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## JoeF (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> L.O. and Maggette are much better than marshall and erob (both I like though)


This matchup definitely goes to Chicago till Odom is healthy. Odom on IR with a bum ankle definitely wont make much difference. If healthy Marshall would go for 30 Points and 20 Rebounds against Maggette. Maquette would pick up plenty of fouls trying to guard Marshall in the post.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> 
> To get back on topic... Amare Stoudamire is going to be a big deal. We didn't see Chandler or Curry tearing up pre-season games like Stoudamire is, and he'll be in a good position to get just the right amount of minutes as the 6th man off the bench backing up a brittle Gugs and a foul-prone Big Jake. His insane amount of energy will run amok, as he develops court skills at the same time.


I think it's safe to say that Eddy "tore it up" a couple of times, and Tyson's best game of the season came vs. Amare. 

Here are their preseason averages just as a comparison:

Eddy: 24 mpg, .566 FG%, 4.9 rpg, .1 apg, .13 spg, .88 bpg, 13.9 ppg
Tyson: 27 mpg, .581 FG%, 8.5 rpg, 1.5 apg, .5 spg, 1.5 bpg, 12.8 ppg
Amare: 29 mpg, .422 FG%, 7.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, .5 spg, .5 bpg, 12.5 ppg

As I've said before, Amare is more physically ready than any high-schooler I've ever seen (I didn't see Moses). But he's earning a lot of his hype on style points, not necessarily substance.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Thank you NCbullsFAN and Scottmay. I was just waiting for someone to point out the obvious.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jmac910</b>!
> We are not talking about a injured Odom. If you want to bring up injuries than we should talk about The Toe aka E-Rob.When healthy do you really have a better sf than Odom
> Trenton is pretty much a non factor at sg, not that he is horrible. Im not saying Q was better than Rose last year, yet I don't think he is far off. So if you combine both players at the two(Q and Pike vs Rose and Trenton) we overtake them. You might have us or tie us at pg


Again - isn't the discussion about last years Clips vs this years Bulls? Robinson is healthy so far. (but that will probably change)

Odom is the best of the bunch but barely played last year.

Q and Pike are not as good as Trenton and Rose. Trenton isn't a non-factor. You probably didn't see many Bulls games last year. He's the best defender of the four. Rose is the best all-around with Q close behind. I'd take Trenton over Pike. Pike is like a Jeff Hornacek sg. He's good and is an excellent 3 point shooter but you'd always be looking to upgrade.

Kandi played the 2nd half of last season for a max contract. I've been watching that guy for 3 years and he has sucked for most of the time.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Again - isn't the discussion about last years Clips vs this years Bulls? Robinson is healthy so far. (but that will probably change)
> ...


Wow lizzy now sarcasm or putdowns of the clips - I like that.

When you say upgrade from Pike, upgrade to who? You need a pure shooter on the team you can't have 5 Odoms (or whoever) on the court. IMO I don't think hassel's D would be an upgrade from Pikes O. And IMO I think Lamar Odom is a better Defender anyway. Pike is gonna have a career year points-to minutes wise (he has to share with Q) because of Dre miller. 

You are definately right about Kandi though, he has sucked it up, but maybe those days are gone? who knows? but he IS better than Curry right now and last year which is what Johhny B was comparing him too.
We will compare the worth of Pike and Trenton to there respective teams say maybe 2 weeks into the year and compare the two again.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> This matchup definitely goes to Chicago till Odom is healthy. Odom on IR with a bum ankle definitely wont make much difference. If healthy Marshall would go for 30 Points and 20 Rebounds against Maggette. Maquette would pick up plenty of fouls trying to guard Marshall in the post.


You've got to be kidding me. 30 and 20 huh? He wont get either of those numbers in ANY game this season.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> Wow lizzy now sarcasm or putdowns of the clips - I like that.
> 
> ...


I wasn't being sarcastic. I was saying what I feel.

I wasn't comparing Odom's defense to Hassells. I was saying that of Rose, Hassell, Pike and Q - Hassell is the best defender. Q is 2nd. I was also saying that of the 4 Rose is the best all-around with Q up and coming. My assesment of Pike is that last season when he was a starter with Brand, Odom, Kandi and McGinnes - that he was the "weak link." He's still a good player but not someone I would want starting at my SG spot for the future. Q and Rose - yes. Is Pike's offense better than Hassell's defense? Probably. Since it's rather close I'd give the edge to Chicago as they have the best player of the 4 in Rose.

SF - I honestly haven't seen enough of Marshall and E-Rob to say how they compare to Odom and Maggette. But since we're comparing them to last season's Clips we should compare them to Maggette and Fowlkes. And Fowlkes and Miles. It's a close comparison and can go either way. 

PG - How about we hold the draft and see what order Dooling, McInnes, Williams and Crawford are drafted in. See which PG gm's around the league take with the 1st pick. It won't be Dooling.

Kandi could be the best young center in the league. The 2nd half of last season showed that. He showed no fear playing Shaq and played him man-to-man. Right now the edge goes to Kandi but I'd rather have Curry for the future.

I give the edge to last year's Clips team. Especially when healthy since Odom is one of the top talents in the league at SF. However - I think the Bulls will be better in two years. (I think Kandi is going to Dallas and he's a major part of the success of the team)


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

When I said upgrade for Pike - I think that Richardson is an upgrade. And that almost every team in the league has a better starting sg. Except maybe Spurs, Memphis and Utah. That isn't to say that Pike wouldn't be a deadly 3-point weapon off the bench. Much like Horry, Del Curry, Kerr, Barry, and Q last year. He fills that role extremely well.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> You've got to be kidding me. 30 and 20 huh? He wont get either of those numbers in ANY game this season.


I'll book mark this one Ringo 

A few years ago in Altered State.. er I mean Golden State he went for a couple of 25 / 20 games

I think it unlikely but then again who would have thought someone would pay Larry Hughes $4.5M this season

Anything is possible - even the Bulls making the playoffs this year ... or battling Golden State or the McNuggets for the worst record in the league again 

Just part of the rich tapestry of oddity and the downright bizzare that is the NBA


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

*The Clips are a joke*

What have they done?

28 wins the previous year and 37 wins was it last year ?

Big whoop 

Part of the problem in making prognastications on individual match ups and therefore making a conclusion as to who has got the better team is because the "fanz" are basically reducing it down to a beauty paegent 

The Clips.com are just trading on their image .

They won't do dick

I've said it before and I'll say it again - they screwed the Miller situation badly. Dre and Odom are a shocking fit . If they wanted Dre , Odom was the one to deal - not Miles

Odom - together with Wags and Davis have a chance to be real special as a Dre with Miles, Q and Brand combo

Miles needs a real point/ball handler and Dre and Odom both need the ball to make plays but Dre's outside touch is a bit rickety

Anyway on top of how they screwed all this there is the retention issue and the requirement for a Jalen Rose type of leader/vet - with that credibility that the Clips will never bring in and pay for .


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

BTW - I'm on record as saying the Clips will fall short of the playoffs again this year and be around 35 wins

I will also go on record and say that they are one of the most overrated teams in the league - with the Atlanta Hawks giving them a run for the money


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

I see the clips making the playoffs, taking the Sonics spot from last year. Miller is going to make Brand, Q and Kandi look real good.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I agree, the clips are overrated, but they're still better than the bulls. There no more overhyped team on here than the Bulls. 80% of the people who post on here are Bulls fans. I mean, you guys think Crawford is some kind of god, the guy is an ok BACKUP player, maybe. I've also heard talk that Curry is the best center in the east. COME ON. Maybe in the future but not now. Marshals glory days are far behind him. Try to be more realistic Bulls fans.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Marshall's glory days behind him ?

Gee that was shortlived

He had no Glory before going to the Jazz where he was at for 2 years 

And all of a sudden he is a Bull and he has no Glory left in him ?

Damn!

Its a tough business


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: The Clips are a joke*



> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> What have they done?
> 
> 28 wins the previous year and 37 wins was it last year ?
> ...


First. Get the win totals right.

Second. Good choice of words up there, real grown up

Third. Miles was my favorite player, Odom is a better ball handler shooter, passer,etc., and from what i have seen of miller and as much as I hate to say this but Miles Who? 

Fourth. Miles can handle the ball, what are you talkin about, Have you even seen the Clippers play? If Odom and Miller need the ball
why do you have Jay and Jalen?


try explaining that


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> You've got to be kidding me. 30 and 20 huh? He wont get either of those numbers in ANY game this season.


:laugh: yeah bet the house on that one.:laugh: What good players do the bulls even have? Jalen? NO he is overrated if anyone is, he's already reached his peak and now he's stuck on a "rebuilding bulls" team, Donyell Marshall, yeah he's a good roll player, but a go to guy is one thing he's not. The rest of the team are a bunch of kids who don't know how to play in the league yet, and when they finally do they won't all be on the same team still. Who else do you got? Hoiberg?
I'm not saying this to make anyone upset, I like the Bulls, its just when people start saying oh the clips won't make it and Curry is better than Kandi (and I don't even like Kandi) etc... its ridiculous.
\


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> I wasn't being sarcastic. I was saying what I feel.
> ...


Thanks for the reply Lizzy, I knew you weren't be sarcastic. I agree with most of what you say, however, Dooling was only 19 when he started in the NBA and he is much more athletic and versitle than Jay or JC, I think if he would have played 4 years of college ball he would have been a top 15 pick at least. I think depending on what a team needed it would be either Jay will or dooling first the other second and JC third.:rbanana: :wbanana: :bbanana:


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: The Clips are a joke*



> Originally posted by <b>Jmac910</b>!
> 
> 
> First. Get the win totals right.
> ...


I don't think I can JMac - you got it all figured out

Props


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: The Clips are a joke*



> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think I can JMac - you got it all figured out
> ...


:laugh:


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> Thanks for the reply Lizzy, I knew you weren't be sarcastic. I agree with most of what you say, however, Dooling was only 19 when he started in the NBA and he is much more athletic and versitle than Jay or JC, I think if he would have played 4 years of college ball he would have been a top 15 pick at least. I think depending on what a team needed it would be either Jay will or dooling first the other second and JC third.:rbanana: :wbanana: :bbanana:


When is the last time Dooling played in a game? Seriously, I thought he was out of the league.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 02-03 8th Seed in Playoffs


Are you serious? 

No way...sorry guys, I know their are A LOT of Bulls fans in here, but you guys overrate your team by a large margin.

They will be good, but there is no way that they will get in the Playoffs this year, no way. Rose and Marshall are the only good EXPERIENCED players in their lineup. Sure they have a couple other guys that are good, but they only have a little experience (3 or 4 years). And JayWill will not be a leader his first season in the league.

Bulls should aim for 30 wins. 

Quite frankly, Stoudemire is right, he is more prepared than those guys. He has played harder in his first few games than Chandler and Curry did. I'm not saying he's better, he has worked harder though.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Great analysis from a guy who doesn't even think the Bulls have a shot at an 8 seed in the east this year. Man, anyone who follows an eastern team should be able to tell you that the east is WIDE open. And how do the clips win at sf? I can see it if Odom was healthy, but he hasn't been for some time now.


The east is wide open for every team but cleveland, ny, miami and chicago I mean don't kid yourself all of these teams are better than the bulls

nets
boston
toronto
Hornets
Bucks
Hawks
Pacers
Detroit
76ers 
wizards 
magic

thats a 11 teams with better chances of making the playoffs then the bulls. For the bulls to even sniff the playoffs this year they are going to need lots of luck and there is going to have to be tons of injuries in the east.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> When is the last time Dooling played in a game? Seriously, I thought he was out of the league.


He had 9 assists in his second preseason game after not playing for almost a year or practicing..... do any bulls pg's have 9 assists in the preseason yet?


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> He had 9 assists in his second preseason game after not playing for almost a year or practicing..... do any bulls pg's have 9 assists in the preseason yet?


I would love to debate with you about preseason statistics, but quite frankly, I haven't seen Dooling do squat in the regular season. Hey, I'm sure there are plenty of players wondering why they don't have a job after a good preseason performance. I hope Dooling is still riding the high of his spectacular showing.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you serious?
> ...


the bulls are better then the clippers were last year IMHO who almost made the playoffs


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## DickieHurtz (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> When is the last time Dooling played in a game? Seriously, I thought he was out of the league.


Actually he played in 14 games last season and averaged an astonishing 11.1mpg. That's certainly enough time to give everyone the impression he's the most athletic PG in North America.

Unfortunately, and for whatever reason, his development stalled out last year. His rookie shooting percentage was 41% and last year it dipped to 39%! Three point field goal shooting also dipped from 35% to 29%

As for Crawford, his second year shooting percentage improved from his rookie season, 35% to 48%. His three point field goal percentage rose similarly from 35% to 45%. And he accomplished all this after fighting his way back from a major ACL injury which required surgery.

Yep, based on these numbers I can certainly see why THE'clip'SHOW would slot Dooling ahead of Crawford, calling Dooling much more athletic and versitile than Jamal. :laugh:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> 
> the bulls are better then the clippers were last year IMHO who almost made the playoffs


Bulls:
C: Curry (or Chandler)
PF: Chandler (or Curry)
SF: Donyell Marshall
SG: Jalen Rose
PG: Jay Williams

Clippers:
C: Michael Olowokandi
PF: Elton Brand
SF: Lamar Odom
SG: Quentin Richardson/Eric Piatkowski/Corey Maggette
PG: Jeff McInnis

I disagree...the Bulls have 2 guys that are almost Rookies (Curry and Chandler only got meaningful minutes at the very end of last year) and 1 Rookie.

The Clippers had a super-star in Brand. Rose isn't as good as Brand IMHO.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually he played in 14 games last season and averaged an astonishing 11.1mpg. That's certainly enough time to give everyone the impression he's the most athletic PG in North America.
> ...


Do you even watch anyone else besides the bulls, he got injured for the entire season last year. Dooling is better than JC you bulls fans will never admit it and i'm alright with that.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

I think last years clippers are better than this years bulls. I hate to say that but last years clippers had alot of hype surrounding them and they really shoulda been in the playoffs last year. If you compare the teams by position this is what i think

PG - Bulls win because I think JWill is capable of equaling Mcinnis's numbers as a rookie and I do think Crawford is better than Dooling.

SG- Right now Rose is better than Q, I mean Rose averaged 20 ppg on an Indiana team where he wasnt even the go to guy. In a couple years Q will be the better player.

SF - Clippers win here, Odom missed alot of games but Miles and Maggatte are so talented. Marshall is better than Miles of last year but Erob so far hasnt proven squat and hes injured just as much as odom is.

PF - No doubt Clippers, Brand was an all star last year in the Western Conference. Chandler is still trying to learn to be a starter in the NBA.

C - This is a tough thing to compare. I honestly believe that over the course of the season Curry is going to be better than Olowakandi. In my opionion the Kandi man has been a big disapointment ever since he's been drafted.

The position by position break down doesnt even tell most of the story. The clippers had the better line-up 1-12. The only reason the 2 teams compare to eachother is because both have raw young talent but id say the clippers of last year had more young talent that was consistant and capable of playing a high level of NBA basketball on a nightly basis. I think for the bulls to make the playoffs they cant have any injuries what so ever this season and some luck. The Clippers without Odom were probably better than this seasons bulls squad. I hope Im wrong though. Its too early to tell.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

First off, Damian I was replying to what someone else said. If you read the WHOLE post I said the Bulls have 0 chance of making it this year. As far as the Bulls being better than last years Clips, you've got to be KIDDING ME. You realy think that if you put the Bulls in the west they would get 37 wins? They wont even get over 30 this year and they're out east. Get real.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> Do you even watch anyone else besides the bulls, he got injured for the entire season last year. Dooling is better than JC you bulls fans will never admit it and i'm alright with that.


OK, OK, I admit it. 

I am certain that our point guards wish that they were worthy to hold Dooling's jock.

Furthermore, I finally realized that Baylor just brought in Miller and Jaric to speed up Dooling's learning process. Soon Miller will be let go wondering how one of the three best PGs in the east is not the best PG on a team that has not made the playoffs in years and Jaric will to spend most of his time admire Dooling's excellence from the Bench remembering his Euro glory.

Lastly, I am certain that Dooling is just playing with all of our heads before his really explodes and this accounts for his 27% shooting in the pre-season. It's strategery!!


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

oh, and by the way. Last seasons clippers came into the season expecting to make the playoffs. I honestly thought they were gonna be in the playoffs. With this Bulls team nobody expects them to make the playoffs. And The East is alot weaker than the west. I mean the Blazers were the 6th seed in the West with 49 wins and the Nets won 51 I believe and were the 1st seed. If the Blazers were in the east they'd win more than 51 games. So if the Clippers were predicted by many to make the playoffs in the tough west and the Bulls are expected to be among the 5 worst in the east then that just shows the clippers were the better team at that point in time. Next year hopefully the bulls will be ready to step up.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Jmac*

"First. Get the win totals right.

Second. Good choice of words up there, real grown up

Third. Miles was my favorite player, Odom is a better ball handler shooter, passer,etc., and from what i have seen of miller and as much as I hate to say this but Miles Who?

Fourth. Miles can handle the ball, what are you talkin about, Have you even seen the Clippers play? If Odom and Miller need the ball
why do you have Jay and Jalen?


try explaining that"





Adda boy, burned these Bulls fans on that one. If Miller and Odom can't coexist, then how can Jay and Rose, who played point for a year on the Pacers, coexist? Way to go Jmac, cant belive I didnt think of that. And look, they cant even come up with a reply to it. PROPS


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> Dooling was only 19 when he started in the NBA and he is much more athletic and versitle than Jay or JC, I think if he would have played 4 years of college ball he would have been a top 15 pick at least. I think depending on what a team needed it would be either Jay will or dooling first the other second and JC third.:rbanana: :wbanana: :bbanana:


Pretty safe call about Dooling being a top 15 pick after 4 years of college as he was #10 after 2 years. Or didn't you know that?:vbanana: :vbanana:


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Bulls:
> ...



i disagree about elton and rose

-jalen is a true star that is _Finals_-tested while elton wasnt proven last year

-jalen makes his teamates better, he makes plays and dishes dimes, elton isnt that type of player

-jalen is a vocal leader on and off the court who again is Finals-tested, elton is the silent type who dosent inspire his teamates, not the vocal type

-Jalen knows how to win in the Fourth Quarter, he's a crunch-time scorer, elton dosent win you games in crunch time, jalen is clutch as proven in the _Finals_






about Donyell Marshall....

-'Yell is _Playoff tested_, he was the Jazz' leading scorer in the playoffs during their only win 









i think the Veteran expirience and Leadership or Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall more then makes up for eddy and tyson's inexpirience when comparing to the Clippers of Last year

no knock on the Clippers, they were a good team, i just think that we can match what you guys did last year and then some, because of our Finals/Playoff tested veterans which the Clips didnt have last year

I hope you guys dont start disliking the Bulls because of that, its just my honest opinion


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> Do you even watch anyone else besides the bulls, he got injured for the entire season last year. Dooling is better than JC you bulls fans will never admit it and i'm alright with that.


What exactly do you base that statement on? Dunks? Seems to me the Clips have realized that highlight reels do not equal wins and thus traded their most athletic player for a very average athlete. Yet you still contend that Dooling is better because he dunks.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> 
> 
> The east is wide open for every team but cleveland, ny, miami and chicago I mean don't kid yourself all of these teams are better than the bulls
> ...


Hey, I didn't say it would be easy! I would agree with you on Ny, Miami, and Cleveland but I think the Bulls have as good a shot as the Magic, Wizards, Hawks or Bucks on getting an 8 seed in the east. Sure, it might take a little luck or some injuries for that to happen but those are part of the game too. I don't think anyone can make the statement "the Bulls will NOT get a playoff spot in the east this season" with absolute certainty. Truly, you can't even say it about NY, Miami, and Cleveland even though your on a lot firmer ground there.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: Jmac*



> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea they can't have a serious response because they know I am right. They always do that when im the only one being realistic. Bulls good this year as Clippers were last year? Be real. Alot of the fans are biased and do'nt even want to think with an unbiased opinion


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

*My $.02*

First of all..............both teams are similar in how they were built...around talented, raw athletes(Clippers- Drafted Kandi with #1 pick, Odom, Maggette, Richardson, and Dooling......Bulls- Chandler, Curry, Williams, Crawford, and to a lesser extent Hassell).

See the similarities........both teams drafted players who can pay multiple positions, who were raw-banking on potential, and exciting to watch.

The Clippers had a few years head start, so as of now they are better. That shouldnt be a surprise.

Giving up Miles for Andre IMHO was a great move for the Clips. They got a PG who can run an offense and keep everyone in check.........an old school PG.

Curry vs Kandi- Clippers win this now. Kandi started to show signs of being a good Center last year. 
Chandler vs Brand- Clippers win this
Marshall, Robinson vs. Odom, Miles, Maggette- Clippers win this
Rose, Hassell vs Richardson, Pike- Bulls win this now. Rose is a better all around player than Q as of now.
Williams, Crawford vs McInnis, Dooling- Close, but Williams should be able to average McInnis' stats this year as a rookie....Id give this to the Bulls

In a series, or even a game, the Clippers would beat the Bulls


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

*ALSO*

Wasnt this topic about Stoudemire and the Bulls.....not the Clipz?


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: The Clips are a joke*



> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think I can JMac - you got it all figured out
> ...



Good explaination. How long it take you to think of that one?
Real smart


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Pretty safe call about Dooling being a top 15 pick after 4 years of college as he was #10 after 2 years. Or didn't you know that?:vbanana: :vbanana:


I couldn't remember what pick he was off the top of my head, and didn't want to take the time to go look it up. My point was after playing 4 years in college you can make your own stock drop, and often times your draft position will be pushed back because of some high school phenomes examples - D-Miles, Tyson, Lebron james etc.....
But that just shows you how talented he is, he just hasn't had the chance to mature do to being behing Mcinnis who wants 40+ minutes a night and then he was injured last year.
He is a good compliment to Dre who looks to create for others, Dooling can create for himself. IMO I think they should get rid of Pike and move Jaric to SG and have Dooling back up Dre.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TripleDouble</b>!
> 
> 
> What exactly do you base that statement on? Dunks? Seems to me the Clips have realized that highlight reels do not equal wins and thus traded their most athletic player for a very average athlete. Yet you still contend that Dooling is better because he dunks.


I wouldn't describe him as a dunker, I would describe him as explosive with the capability to finish and finish over the best in the league. Check out the highlight at clippers.com and look up on the right side player profiles and watch the highlight video on Keyon.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...






AGAIN.... Jalen Rose is a FINALS-Tested VETERAN, the clippers had KNOWONE of that expirience and leadership on the squad last year which is why they didnt make the playoffs, Donyell Marshall is a PLAYOFF-tested VETRAN, that alone gives the bulls the edge, not to mention that we're in the EAST

i try to keep it nice here, but some people cant get it through their heads that Jalen Rose lead his team along with Reggie Miller to the FINALS and took them to 5 games(i think)

Elton Brand has just finished leading the bulls to 15 wins the previous season, the clippers had no TRUE LEADERSHIP on that squad last year, i dont know how much i can stress this fact, but Finals Tested Jalen Rose and Playoff Tested Donyell Marshall are more then what the Clippers had last season

we're talking about VETERAN Leadership here guys, you cant judge that purely on stats alone, Veteran Leadership wins you games and the bulls have that, we CAN make the playoffs IMHO

not to be an &5Z, i just think our Finals/Playoff tested veterans are enough to make us playoff _possibilities_, i get tired of everyone dismissing us based on the previous seasons, we have a totally different team now with Veteran Leadership

oh btw

Jalen Rose was the 6th leading 4th quarter scorer in the League last year only behind Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady and a few others


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Two words - Garbage Time:laugh: I'm just messin with you Johhny. 

I think you might be overrating what Jalen did for the pacers that year they had other great players like Miller. IMO. we'll see what he does this year though.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

A couple points:

1 - I think Dooling is a great back-up PG and would start on a few teams. He's an energy guy. He reminds me of Bobby Jackson which, IMO, is a great complememnt. The only concern is - he missed almost an entire season with a sprained ankle. I was at the game that he rolled it and it looked bad but that's a long time to miss for an ankle sprain. Crawford tore his acl and played more games than Dooling. 

2 - For someone who said that we are biased b/c 80% of us are Bulls fans - wow - did you go to detective school? It's the Bulls board. What were you expecting? Memphis fans?

3 - We are overrating Crawford no more than you guys overrate Dooling. Why? Because we watch them. How many Bulls games did you see? Only 2 were nationally televised. I'm assuming you all didn't schlep to a sports bar to watch the Bulls. Just like Bulls fans didn't run out to watch the Clips and Dooling. 

4 - I like how so many people have shown up in this thread to basically insult Bulls fans and the team. I've seen some of the other boards. Maybe a page of topics? 2 posts a day? I can see why you come here b/c it's the most active on the site. So don't act shocked when people are predominantly Bulls fans and prefer Curry to Kandi. Or Tyson to Amare. Or everyone else to Shaq. 

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go to a Gay and Lesbian message board and tell them their stupid for not liking Eminem.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Actualy, I have league pass, and Crawford is not very good, plain and simple. Secondly, I was trying to point out that its hard to argue since this board is predominantly Bulls fans. Have fun with that gay lesibian thing Lizzy.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Actualy, I have league pass, and Crawford is not very good, plain and simple. Secondly, I was trying to point out that its hard to argue since this board is predominantly Bulls fans. Have fun with that gay lesibian thing Lizzy.


So when you had league pass you must have watched a lot of Bulls games? See, I don't think Crawford is that great but to say Dooling is way ahead of him is incorrect. They both have accomplished little in the NBA.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

R-Star who would you take Jamal Crawford or Keyon Dooling?

Lizzy I like posting in here cause its where the most people are. and I expect the answers I get from most of the bulls fans in here. However some of the bulls fans sound as uninformed about the NBA as there two horrible anouncers. 
I think a severe high ankle sprain is a horrible injury because its not easily repaired like some operations can do for other injuries. ex-you want a clean break if you break something.
I also have league pass, and I also enjoy debating this game in THIS room with you guys.:yes:


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Isn't it intersting how every internet bball fan ripping a certain player in vague terms always has league pass? 

I don't have time to watch all the T'Wolves games, let alone all the games in the EC. These people with league pass must not have much else to do with their lives...

In summary, 

Sounds like a lie to me!


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> R-Star who would you take Jamal Crawford or Keyon Dooling?
> 
> Lizzy I like posting in here cause its where the most people are. and I expect the answers I get from most of the bulls fans in here. However some of the bulls fans sound as uninformed about the NBA as there two horrible anouncers.
> ...


That's cool. It's more interesting to have different views. The Clips are my second favorite team. The first pro game I ever attended was the Clippers and have been going ever since. Couldn't afford Bulls/Jordan tickets. My goal is to go to a Clips/Lakers game when it's a home game for the Lakers and wear all Clippers gear and go crazy. All before I move back to Chicago.

BTW - Our horrible announcers? You mean unlike Bill, if you can dunk on Ike Austin you own this league, Walton? Speaking of uninformed announcers! (although extremely funny - I'm in the minority that loves Bill Walton during Clips games) Yeah - Doan (sp) and Kerr are dorks and seem like perverts but who cares? They're local announcers. And none of the analysts in the NBA can hold a candle to Norm Van Lier! He's the best. :grinning:


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> My goal is to go to a Clips/Lakers game when it's a home game for the Lakers and wear all Clippers gear and go crazy. All before I move back to Chicago.


I've done it before and it was more fun than you could imagine! I was actually acknowledged by about 6 or 7 of the players cause I was going crazy! Let me know if your serious about going to any clip games cause chances are i'll be there reppin.:rbanana: :wbanana: :bbanana:


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Clip Show - I will for sure be at the Clips vs Bulls game in January. I usually go to 4 or 5 others during the season. I don't know if I'll be able to get Lakers/Clips tix for the Lakes home game. Those are probably hard to get.

Were there other clips fans there? Also - have you gone to a home game clips vs lakers? It seems like it would be filled with Laker fans even though it's a clippers home game. :sour: 

I'll let you know which games I go to!


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*blabla97*

Did I say I watched every Bulls game? I bout league pass to watch Pacers games and watched other games when I had the chance. I watched a few Bulls games with Crawford in them so I have a perspective. You must be a very VERY busy man if you have no time at all in your life to watch tv. By buying league pass it doesnt mean I watched every game, since that would be impossible since alot of games would be playing at the same time. But you already thought of that didnt you? Oh wait, you obviouly didnt. Not very clever of you to miss something so obvious.

And to your question Clips show, Im not realy sure who I would pick. Both guys have loads of tallent and are very athletic, but at the same time I dont know if either will live up to their potential. It would be a hard decison, but at this point in time if someone had a gun to my head I guess I would pick Crawford. Not because I think hes better, but because I think hes in a better situation to get minutes than Dooling.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: The Clips are a joke*



> Originally posted by <b>Jmac910</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I assure you I gave it the appropriate amount of time it deserved


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> Clip Show - I will for sure be at the Clips vs Bulls game in January. I usually go to 4 or 5 others during the season. I don't know if I'll be able to get Lakers/Clips tix for the Lakes home game. Those are probably hard to get.
> 
> Were there other clips fans there? Also - have you gone to a home game clips vs lakers? It seems like it would be filled with Laker fans even though it's a clippers home game. :sour:
> ...


I'm gonna be at the bulls game for sure too. At the lakes home games there are scattered clips fans, but theres some things you have to remember when going to a lakers game that make it different. When I go to laker games I would rather sit up in the company box than on the floor because the games are, to put it bluntly boring, and most people are their on business anyways and not "real" fans. The laker fans show respect now for the clippers, but will always deny any real chance of them finding any real success. 

The home games are a different story entirely... there are only real fans there. Its freakin awesome. and the home game I went too was different than what it use to be. It use to be just a way for laker fans to see them for cheap. Now its almost ALL clipper fans enjoying the game, and not the dessert cart in the box (that thing is great though). The clippers are making a name for themselves - 16 straight sellouts at staples to end the season last year.:cheers:


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm gonna be at the bulls game for sure too. At the lakes home games there are scattered clips fans, but theres some things you have to remember when going to a lakers game that make it different. When I go to laker games I would rather sit up in the company box than on the floor because the games are, to put it bluntly boring, and most people are their on business anyways and not "real" fans. The laker fans show respect now for the clippers, but will always deny any real chance of them finding any real success.
> ...


I went to some Lakers games the last few years and it is amazing that the defending champs can be so boring to watch. Not just b/c I wasn't rooting for them, either. I went to the Bulls/Lakers game last year and was cheering for Chicago and the people around me were completely indifferent. The game was close at the end and it didn't affect the crowd. It's a horrible sports atmosphere considering how good they are. 

Clips games are fun. My favorite part, besides the game, is the dancing clipper fan in the 4th quarter. The dude in the red sweats and the Odom jersey. He is awesome. I also like to watch Odom b/c he is good for doing the robot or some sort of dance during warm-ups. 

Where is your office box? Our company tickets are in the PR 7 level behind the visitors bench.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> I went to some Lakers games the last few years and it is amazing that the defending champs can be so boring to watch. Not just b/c I wasn't rooting for them, either. I went to the Bulls/Lakers game last year and was cheering for Chicago and the people around me were completely indifferent. The game was close at the end and it didn't affect the crowd. It's a horrible sports atmosphere considering how good they are.
> ...


Its was box #234 on the second level, it was on the end of the court southeast entrance by foxsports , if you were facing the court the benches were on the right side. I'll never forget the number cause its shaq's. I think they switched box locations though, I need to find out. For almost all the good clipper games I get tickets though. The boxes are sweet cause you just tell them what kind of food and other goodies you want for each game and its all waiting for you when you get there.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Clips will have their azzes handed to them this year and into the forseeable future

In a few seasons from now when KG is still spewing about not being able to get past the first round at least he will be able to say "Hey at least I'm not a Clipper that can't make it to the first round"

Max 35 wins for the Clips

The Jazz,Nugz ,Sonics and Wolves situation are probably the only 4 teams in the Western Conference I like less than the Clips - and the Jazz and the Sonics have peaked and are on the way down and so long as KG is a Wolf , they will always be assured of a 1st round beating ..... which basically means ....

Up and comers like the Rox and even laughably Golden State ( if they can unload two crappy contracts in Fortson and Jamison - and even Jamison is not that necessary to unload + get a new GM ) have better long term situations 

And even the Nugz with a committed ownership and one of the brightest GM talents coming through in Kiki Dee may be able to kick some major butt in a few years with Hilario , Skita , a couple of other high draft picks and tonnes of caproom to either sign free agents or more importantly facilitate trades with their cap room to get the players they can't sign outright - a skill and a resource that Donald Sterling will not use to make your team better.

I would go as far as to say that within 2 years , Nene Hilario will be Elton Brand's equal - he is that good - but you probably won't care by then because you will have already lost Elton Brand from the NBA training nursery .... er i mean the Clippers organisation

It's gotta be awful knowing that teams on the decline such as the Jazz, Sonics ,Portland and Wolves are holding you down now and that in the changing of the guard in the Western Conference , Golden State, Denver, Houston and Memphis will be surpassing you with at least equal talent but more importantly committed ownership with what is required to be a winner - all this within the next couple of years as they make a legit push for ascension

Without that proprietorial commitment , there is just a whole lot of water being treaded - both by the players and the fans in what a talented team on paper that is sold well with through the popular media -with all the bandwagoners think they're keepin it real by getting in on the ground level . From the players point of view they are like Rats in a maze looking for the cheddar and this is the very thing where they are all at right now - all of them 

There is no romance without finance

Whether the Johnny come lately Clip fans know it or not part of your job description is to be a glutton for punishment - check in with the real Clipper fans that were for real before your dawgs started getting covers - they'll give you the truth

But maybe you'll just have to learn it for yourselves.

Sucks to be a Clips fan. Always has. Always will. This brief ray of sunshine where you managed to actually arse some talent out of the last few drafts is just a disturbance in the Clipper cosmos.

Your regular programming will be returned to normal as soon as possible


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Clips will have their azzes handed to them this year and into the forseeable future
> 
> In a few seasons from now when KG is still spewing about not being able to get past the first round at least he will be able to say "Hey at least I'm not a Clipper that can't make it to the first round"
> ...


No offense... but it sounds like its sucks to be you... all biter, negative, with a chip on your shoulder... oh well to each his own.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

How can you rip on the Clips for not making it to the playoffs when there is 0 chance of the bulls making it? The Clips have a 50/50 chance this year, and Im not even a clip fan anymore eversince all the bandwagon jumpers came along. As far as the clips being a nursery team as you put it, why do you think they're called "The Baby Bulls" right now? Probably because of all their young unproven tallent.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> No offense... but it sounds like its sucks to be you... all biter, negative, with a chip on your shoulder... oh well to each his own.


Oh contraire.. I'm quite happy with my lot 

I just don't like your team's future and upside - no need to confuse that for something as presumptious that you think you know about me

You like your team? Hooray for you ! No need to get churlish when someone who has an alternate honest opinion and backs it up with reason throws it into the fray ( perhaps in direct and strong terms admittedly - but only because this thread got hi-jacked into a completely unrelated subject matter by insecure Clipper fans )


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> How can you rip on the Clips for not making it to the playoffs when there is 0 chance of the bulls making it?


 A 0% chance is statistically inaccurate , Ringo 

How can you expect someone to have a serious conversation with you with that degree of hyperbole?



> The Clips have a 50/50 chance this year, and Im not even a clip fan anymore eversince all the bandwagon jumpers came along.


Way to keep it real Ringo 

Good luck with the Cavs this year.. or is that the Nugz ?



> As far as the clips being a nursery team as you put it, why do you think they're called "The Baby Bulls" right now? Probably because of all their young unproven tallent.


Yeah . You are probably right . We did get labelled the Baby Bulls for all of our young unproven talent and having had one of the youngest teams in the league

I guess you get those types of labels when you are rebuiding . Just like your franchise gets labelled an NBA Nursery because of its rich history in recycyling draft talent ( Wilcox for Brand for example ) 

At least our label is temporary and we actually have a past to be proud of


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> As far as the clips being a nursery team as you put it, why do you think they're called "The Baby Bulls" right now? Probably because of all their young unproven tallent.



Well, last time I checked, teams tend to rebuild around young players, not old ones. But hey, I could be wrong here.....



I do feel sorry for Clippers fans though.........they have a ton of talent, but most will leave. The biggest move the Clips need to make is an ownership change.
Kandi/Brand/Odom/Richardson/Miller could become on of the best SL's of all time.

Next year, it will look more like
Ely/Wilcox/Maggette/Richardson/Jaric

Good luck to you.......You'll need it :yes:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Cavs and Nugs? Im a Pacers fan first off. And how do you have any chance of making the playoffs then the Nets, Celtics, Pacers, Hornets, Bucks, 6ers, Raptors, Wizards, Hawks, Pistons and Wizards are all WAY better teams than you right now? Thats 11 teams going for 8 playoff spots. Wheres your chance? I say again, you have 0 chance of making the playoffs. And if the Clips are so bad, how come they had a WAY better record than the bulls last year while playing in the harder conference? Get real, bulls are lottery bound for probably the next 2 years at the least. Sorry to be the one to break it to you. And oh yea, my name is not an abreviaton of Ringo Star. Nice idea though, I never thought of that.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh contraire.. I'm quite happy with my lot
> ...


This thread was hijacked cause its already been posted before (Amare's comments on chandler). Your gonna tell me what Donald Sterling is GONNA do, but R-Star cant tell you what the Bulls are GONNA do this season. You say theres no chance of D.S. paying his players and were saying theres no chance the bulls make the playoffs. So who's right and whose wrong?


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> I say again, you have 0 chance of making the playoffs.


Never say never :naughty:


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> This thread was hijacked cause its already been posted before (Amare's comments on chandler).


So what if this thread has been started before......this is a Chicago Bulls board.....meaning we like to talk about the Bulls.....is that a big surprise? 

Somehow a Chandler/Stoudemire thread turned to a Bulls/Clippers thread.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Thrilla</b>!
> 
> 
> So what if this thread has been started before......this is a Chicago Bulls board.....meaning we like to talk about the Bulls.....is that a big surprise?
> ...


Dat a boy Thrilla


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Your right enough is enough.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Cavs and Nugs? Im a Pacers fan first off.


Sorry Ringo , I thought that a keepin it real 4 real yo type of snappy dude like yourself would want to pick the worst team in the L as a symbol that he was there with the 3 wise men in the manger from the get go . Dig ?




> And how do you have any chance of making the playoffs then the Nets, Celtics, Pacers, Hornets, Bucks, 6ers, Raptors, Wizards, Hawks, Pistons and Wizards are all WAY better teams than you right now? Thats 11 teams going for 8 playoff spots. Wheres your chance? I say again, you have 0 chance of making the playoffs.


Again you ley yourself down with your fragile grasp of probability and stats. You are clearly not equipped to have this conversation on this particular point.



> And if the Clips are so bad, how come they had a WAY better record than the bulls last year while playing in the harder conference?


You got me there 



> Get real, bulls are lottery bound for probably the next 2 years at the least. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.


Well if someone had to make me realise it I would rather it be you Ringo then anybody else. Message delivered. Message received. Good job son.




> And oh yea, my name is not an abreviaton of Ringo Star. Nice idea though, I never thought of that.


Or a myriad of other things so it would seem 

Love your work Ringo


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*You lost me here bud...*



> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> .....and Im not even a clip fan anymore eversince all the bandwagon jumpers came along.


I will be damned if I stop being a fan of the Bulls just because someone who was a "fairweather fan", decided to pull for the Bulls when we are again on top, or even on our way up. Besides, there can't be a very big bandwagon since the Clippers have not done anything...yet. People tend to jump on a bandwagon of a successful franchise. You know, like the "TWO" THREE-PEATS the Bulls had in the 90's??? Not that long ago....MAN, THAT was a BIG Bandwagon there!!!

Before you go there, I am not saying this breed of Bulls has done anything yet either....but I believe they will....maybe just you like you USED to think the Clippers would, ya know, since you are not a fan of theirs anymore. But me personally, I would not want quitters for fans of the Bulls....you are not a BULLS fan, are you? LOL....chuckle chuckle....cheer up.....!:laugh:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Man FJ, man do you ever get angry when someone doesnt agree with your opinion. Quite frankly, grow up. So I dont think the Bulls are going to make it this year, you going to cry? Maybe Ill have to snag you a tissue. Funny that you seem to think that I have a "fragile grasp" when you think that the Bulls have a chance to make the playoffs when theres only 11 teams with a real chance of making it. You have yet to come up with a valid point as to why the Bulls have a chance of making it this year, instead you decide to throwout vague insults. Ill say this again, grow up.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Man FJ, man do you ever get angry when someone doesnt agree with your opinion. Quite frankly, grow up. So I dont think the Bulls are going to make it this year, you going to cry? Maybe Ill have to snag you a tissue. Funny that you seem to think that I have a "fragile grasp" when you think that the Bulls have a chance to make the playoffs when theres only 11 teams with a real chance of making it. You have yet to come up with a valid point as to why the Bulls have a chance of making it this year, instead you decide to throwout vague insults. Ill say this again, grow up.


What have you come up with? 11 teams that _you think_ will be better than the Bulls? That is FJ's whole point. You are just chattering without saying anything.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

For the love of God, we have 18 moderators on this board, can't one of them lock down this thread already?


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> For the love of God, we have 18 moderators on this board, can't one of them lock down this thread already?


why? who cares, theres a discussion going on:curse: theres plenty of other rooms and threads if you don't want to read


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Why lock it? Besides...*



> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Man FJ, man do you ever get angry when someone doesnt agree with your opinion. Quite frankly, grow up. So I dont think the Bulls are going to make it this year, you going to cry? Maybe Ill have to snag you a tissue. Funny that you seem to think that I have a "fragile grasp" when you think that the Bulls have a chance to make the playoffs when theres only 11 teams with a real chance of making it. You have yet to come up with a valid point as to why the Bulls have a chance of making it this year, instead you decide to throwout vague insults. Ill say this again, grow up.


...I AM STILL awaiting some sort of response to MY POST!!! LOL:laugh:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Why kind of a reply do you want? Theres was no question asked. 

And to you KC, you want facts? Ok how about the fact that all the teams I mentioned had more wins than the Bulls last year. So did the Heat and Knicks as well. You can stay in your dreamworld all you want, but facts are facts. Speaking of facts, where have any of your guy's facts been? I havent seen one yet supporting the fact that you think the Bulls will make the playoffs.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> For the love of God, we have 18 moderators on this board, can't one of them lock down this thread already?


For what? We are just talking. Plus you know how we Clipper and Bulls fans love to fight :starwars:


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Why kind of a reply do you want? Theres was no question asked.
> 
> And to you KC, you want facts? Ok how about the fact that all the teams I mentioned had more wins than the Bulls last year. So did the Heat and Knicks as well. You can stay in your dreamworld all you want, but facts are facts. Speaking of facts, where have any of your guy's facts been? I havent seen one yet supporting the fact that you think the Bulls will make the playoffs.


And? How many teams had more wins than the Nets 2 years ago, a year before they made the playoffs? That "fact" alone isn't enough to make a judgment on this year's Bulls.


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

*Re:*



> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> Dat a boy Thrilla



Gotta stick up for my fellow Bulls fans......


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Why kind of a reply do you want? Theres was no question asked.
> 
> And to you KC, you want facts? Ok how about the fact that all the teams I mentioned had more wins than the Bulls last year. So did the Heat and Knicks as well. You can stay in your dreamworld all you want, but facts are facts. Speaking of facts, where have any of your guy's facts been? I havent seen one yet supporting the fact that you think the Bulls will make the playoffs.


that logic would apply do this discussion if

-players never aged
-players never improved
-trades never happened
-there was no draft
-there was no free agency
-players dont get injured
etc.. etc... i can go on and on





who expected the milwaukee bucks to fall out of the playoffs least year? there were the next best team in the east behind the 6ers

who expected the pistons of all teams to make the playoffs and win their devision?

who expected the celtics to make the playoffs? especially over the bucks?

who expected the nets to make the finals?

who expected the knicks to be out of the playoffs?



basically ..... the TOP 3 teams in the East this past season WERE ALL LOTTERY TEAMS the year before, New Jersey, Detroit and Boston, the TOP 3 teams in the East jumped to the top of the conference in a matter of an offseason


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> basically ..... the TOP 3 teams in the East this past season WERE ALL LOTTERY TEAMS the year before, New Jersey, Detroit and Boston, the TOP 3 teams in the East jumped to the top of the conference in a matter of an offseason



:clap: Excellent Point......


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## LoaKhoet (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> I can see Rose and Q being about equal but Q is getting better with every game and will soon pass Rose. Pike is better than hassel, look at the stats, when has hassel ever finished top 5 in any catagory. IMO those PG are all in the same universe.


Rose and Q being about being equal??? Man, have u watched basketball lately (well, in the past 5 years)?? 

And Yes, Pike is probably better than Hassell. But quote "When has Hassel ever finished top 5 in any category?" Come on, this is his first year and coming as a second-rounder.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Touche. I was hoping you wouldnt bring that up. The Nets aquired kid though and that was the catalist for them turning it all around. The Pistons had a lucky year and were playing outside of their tallent. They were also lucky at the injurys and collapses of other east teams. The Celtics though, just aged and improved, so you've got me there. I guess 0% was abit drastic. If I've learned anything, its that anything can happen in the season. I do not expect the Bulls to make the playoffs though, although I do think they will get 30+ wins this year, which is a great improvement over last year. Dont get me wrong, Im not a Bulls hater or anything, I just think that you guys are a little unrealistic on some levels. You drasticly overvalue Crawford (and you just got Barkley so it looks like Crawfords gone anyways), Alot of you also think that theres a good chance of you making the playoffs. I see it differently. Take it one step at a time guys. 30+ wins this season, hopefully a .500 record the season after. you have one of, if not the most tallented group of young right now, they just need time. I see you guys finishing over the Cavs, Knicks and Heat this year. And who knows, one team always does alot worse than they should, and some teams do alot better than they are predicted to. So although I dont think this is your year, I guess Ill also say, you never know, do you?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

r-star for what its worth i am a die hard bulls fan. I dont think we will make the playoffs either. But we will give some teams problems. 


FJ....thats funny. Cheering on Thrilla.....classic!!


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## SS_Solid_Snake (Jul 15, 2002)

*FYI*

Erick Barkley was waived

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news/20021025/barkleytrade.html


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Man FJ, man do you ever get angry when someone doesnt agree with your opinion. Quite frankly, grow up. So I dont think the Bulls are going to make it this year, you going to cry? Maybe Ill have to snag you a tissue. Funny that you seem to think that I have a "fragile grasp" when you think that the Bulls have a chance to make the playoffs when theres only 11 teams with a real chance of making it. You have yet to come up with a valid point as to why the Bulls have a chance of making it this year, instead you decide to throwout vague insults. Ill say this again, grow up.


Don't even bother arguing with F. Jenious...if you don't agree with him, he goes straight to the insults. :dead:


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

*lol*



> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> 
> 
> Don't even bother arguing with F. Jenious...if you don't agree with him, he goes straight to the insults. :dead:


Thats funny........coming from you......Ive read some of your posts over at realgm......You insult others also..


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> FJ....thats funny. Cheering on Thrilla.....classic!!



Whats that supposed to mean?


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

It means he liked it.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: lol*



> Originally posted by <b>Thrilla</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats funny........coming from you......Ive read some of your posts over at realgm......You insult others also..


No I don't, jackazz.


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## Peter Vescey (Oct 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> R-Star who would you take Jamal Crawford or Keyon Dooling?
> 
> Lizzy I like posting in here cause its where the most people are. and I expect the answers I get from most of the bulls fans in here. However some of the bulls fans sound as uninformed about the NBA as there two horrible anouncers.
> ...


Bummer fella. You got all that great young talent, you're self-proclaimed in better shape than the Bulls, but you got no fans over there to bask in the glory of it all or what? Gotta be pretty depressing. 

BTW, I got league pass too. Clips beat the Bulls. Heres the diff. When ole Donnie fails to cough up the coin to keep the stable intact, your team returns to its normal place of irelevance (and I'm not conceding you've budged very far at this point). 

But, guess what? Bulls fans won't give two hoots about coming over to your little Clip forum to rub it in. You know, its the whole irelevance thing.

I agree with Lizzy. Duh. Its a Bulls board. All the more reason to keep coming over and insulting the natives I suppose. Must be all those years the Clips sucked. Once again, I guess this is the Clips basking in whatever glory they can get or perceive to get.

Bulls fans are pretty stupid according to the self proclaimed Clip geniuses. Sure thing fella. What they are is pretty damn loyal to the team based on the following here and at RealGm or haven't you noticed?

So post often fellas. Your Clipper time is sure to be short lived.

Since we're so far off topic, why don't we start discussing the end game here? What do the Clips look like next year fella? You still gonna have your 'superstar'  Brand? Kandi? Odom?... C'mon fella, give us a run down on next year....

Always gotta end with a rumor. Next years Clip posters...."Damn, we get the first pick in the lottery and its a year to late to get Lebron!"


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## Peter Vescey (Oct 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Cavs and Nugs? Im a Pacers fan first off. And how do you have any chance of making the playoffs then the Nets, Celtics, Pacers, Hornets, Bucks, 6ers, Raptors, Wizards, Hawks, Pistons and Wizards are all WAY better teams than you right now? Thats 11 teams going for 8 playoff spots. Wheres your chance? I say again, you have 0 chance of making the playoffs. And if the Clips are so bad, how come they had a WAY better record than the bulls last year while playing in the harder conference? Get real, bulls are lottery bound for probably the next 2 years at the least. Sorry to be the one to break it to you. And oh yea, my name is not an abreviaton of Ringo Star. Nice idea though, I never thought of that.


NJ went from 26 wins to top seed in the East. 0% chance? Thats comedy channel stuff fella (available through your DirecTv btw) :laugh:

Sounds like you've got no chance of a career in Vegas. Last I checked everyone has a snowballs chance in hell of winning TITLES according to Vegas before the season starts. 

But hey, it appears as though all the 'experts' are from other forums so naturally you gotta be right.

So whats the deal? Nobody posting on your board either? Or are you on hold with Miss Cleo now? (bulls are lottery bound for probably the next 2 years at the least. )

Always gotta end with a rumor. I hear my good friend is gonna be canned during the season. Whats the word on the Indy board?


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## Peter Vescey (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: You lost me here bud...*



> Originally posted by <b>BamaBull</b>!
> 
> 
> I will be damned if I stop being a fan of the Bulls just because someone who was a "fairweather fan", decided to pull for the Bulls when we are again on top, or even on our way up. Besides, there can't be a very big bandwagon since the Clippers have not done anything...yet. People tend to jump on a bandwagon of a successful franchise. You know, like the "TWO" THREE-PEATS the Bulls had in the 90's??? Not that long ago....MAN, THAT was a BIG Bandwagon there!!!
> ...


Sort of indirectly makes him a bandwagon fan don't ya think? I mean, if he were a loyal fan - he couldn't quit right?

Always gotta end with a rumor. I see this fella gettin' on the Bulls bandwagon when the hardwares coming into plain view (again). Shouldn't be too much longer fella. So don't give up your league pass yet...


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## Peter Vescey (Oct 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jmac910</b>!
> 
> 
> For what? We are just talking. Plus you know how we Clipper and Bulls fans love to fight :starwars:


Yeah, all we need now is for Jordan to go to the Clips so we can consolidate the battle.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> What have you come up with? 11 teams that _you think_ will be better than the Bulls? That is FJ's whole point. You are just chattering without saying anything.


Just to expand further KC and clarify properly 


My comments that got lost on Ringo about the 0% chance thing were more about his incapability of understanding the science of stats and probability/outcomes , which , if he did undertstand at a basic level would give him a clearer view as to the foolishness of his statement.... Ringo still thought I was in knots about subjective determinations emanating from the peanut gallery because the ESPN mafia media choose to butter sacks where they can take the easy populist mark in the shallowness , incompetence or just downright indifference of their "mailing it in" form . 

Case in point , the recent ESPN latest preseason article on the Bulls is hilarious for its ineptitude in that the writer does not have a clue about what he is talking about with some of his crazed references 

Ringo , 

For the record I have nooooo problem with different opinion . The more the merrier I say . This site has ( IMO ) some of the most reasoned and most analytical fans opinions on the net and for the fact there is difference of opinion from intelligent people who can debate is what makes it such

But inevitably and from time to time , the quality filter fails and fodder seeps through .....

And fodder deserves to be treated as such occasionally. The senses do get dulled from time to time with such build up of purile brue hah hah and one must expunge 

Don't feel badly

Keep posting - you'll be better for the experience


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Peter Vescey</b>!
> 
> 
> NJ went from 26 wins to top seed in the East. 0% chance? Thats comedy channel stuff fella (available through your DirecTv btw) :laugh:
> ...


Finally sanity prevails

It's ironic that such reason hails from a board member with the name of Peter Vecsey 

:laugh:




> Always gotta end with a rumor. I hear my good friend is gonna be canned during the season. Whats the word on the Indy board?



If your asking for odds I don't think you would place much credence on them 

BTW Pete, you are one funny bastit but go easy on my dawg Bailin Jalen will ya


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

*Re: lol*



> Originally posted by <b>Thrilla</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats funny........coming from you......Ive read some of your posts over at realgm......You insult others also..


Yeah you tend to take these things with a grain of salt when you consider where it comes from


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

wow, once again you insult me. Funny that to you I've crept through the quality filters when IMO and in the opinion of many others, I am a quality poster. I also have the common courtesy of not calling names when someone thinks differently of my team. Yet you seem to think your the Bulls personal defender and need to take everything personaly. Could the Bulls make the playoffs? If injurys occur to star players out east, then possibly. Will the Bulls make the playoffs? Probably not. Dont worry, Im ready for some more of your witty comebacks. Since your under the impression that throwing in big words makes you look like a good poster. I think you need to tone down on being so biased and actually look at the Bulls situation realisticlly for a moment. But hey, Im just some garbage who slipped through quality control, so what do I know anyways.

Oh yea, Ill come back for sure when the bulls are 2-8 after the first 10.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> wow, once again you insult me. Funny that to you I've crept through the quality filters when IMO and in the opinion of many others, I am a quality poster. I also have the common courtesy of not calling names when someone thinks differently of my team. Yet you seem to think your the Bulls personal defender and need to take everything personaly. *Could the Bulls make the playoffs? If injurys occur to star players out east, then possibly. Will the Bulls make the playoffs? Probably not.* Dont worry, Im ready for some more of your witty comebacks. Since your under the impression that throwing in big words makes you look like a good poster. I think you need to tone down on being so biased and actually look at the Bulls situation realisticlly for a moment. But hey, Im just some garbage who slipped through quality control, so what do I know anyways.
> 
> Oh yea, Ill come back for sure when the bulls are 2-8 after the first 10.


The part in bold is the only part responding to since the rest of it is not worth responding to

In short I agree...

I think the Bulls are not in the race for a playoffs berth and will probably finish around the 30 win mark - maybe 35 if we are lucky 

And this sentiment that I have been consistent about all along ( if you have been on this board for awhile ) as well as being prepared to rip the Bulls when its warranted makes me their biggest defender ? Please get a clue before making baseless and foolish statements as such , that are such , for their inaccuracy 

You have done well here where i have bolded to make an honest and frank assessment without the exaggerated BS of 0 percentages and feeling the need to defend such crap when someone calls you on it.

You see when you just give you opinion about basketball without the BS and without feeling threatened with other strong opinion - a mature and intelligent discussion can take place with reason and we are all happier campers for it

:angel:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Funny if you read my post a page or two back I already said that I think they will win around 30 wins or so. Im getting a little tired of your holier than though act to tell you the truth though. Your no better than anyone else posting on this board.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Re: lol*



> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah you tend to take these things with a grain of salt when you consider where it comes from


Yup...especially when its coming from you.


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## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

If any poster doesn't like that another poster post they should leave if they cannot bare the stench. That goes for everybody. 
This about freedom of expression and nobody should have to conform to get along. It is called and opinion because everybody has one. 


Oh by the way it is impossible to say who is the better team by counting positions that is grade school logic. I believe people fail to take the realitity of the game into mind. It is about how pieces fit not about which position has the single best player. 

Let's look at the Lakers they are not the most talented team. They have one the best coach's and 2 hall famers. Still they depend on scrubs like Fisher, Fox, Horry, Walker. 

These players when taken individually are seriously flawed. 
If you match positon against the Kings, Dallas the fakers lose. They also have the weakest bench. 

What they have is chemistry and players who know their roles and excell at it. 

Oh and just to put my two cents in I do like the bulls better then 
Clips last year. 

Pg I like the Bulls better
sg. The bulls and Q had one good year.
sf. Odom did not play and miles was nice but i say Bulls. 
Miles is a good defender but overrated last year. He might turnout to be a star but he was avg last year. Marshall and E-rob will do more. 
pf . Easily Clips
C. Bulls Eddie avg 15 and 6 that the truth. 

Hey but you are welcomed to disagree. It is your right


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I agree with you on that NoBull. This board is a place for people to share different opinions. You either agree with them or disagree. If you disagree though, all you need to, and should do, is voice your opinion and facts to counter their opinion. Name calling, and the such, is not needed because it ends up becoming an argument rather than a civil converstion. That being said, this is all just my opinion.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nobull1</b>!
> It is impossible to say who is the better team by counting positions that is grade school logic. I believe people fail to take the realitity of the game into mind. It is about how pieces fit not about which position has the single best player.
> 
> Let's look at the Lakers they are not the most talented team. They have one the best coach's and 2 hall famers. Still they depend on scrubs like Fisher, Fox, Horry, Walker.
> ...


Absolutely

But those players that you mention like Horry and Co , I would not call "seriously flawed" But basically they are well drilled players that play their role and do their thing

They have limitations for sure - but hey even some of the "Superstar" players have their limitations and therefore have incorrect billing

Take Jermaine O'Neal for example and how he got found out at the World Championships - it had a lot of people wondering is he all that ( the hype ) when he was taken to school by the Euros who were fundamentally better

I love what Detroit , the Nets, and the Celtics were able to achieve last year during the regular season with Chemistry

I mean players like Eric Williams , Walter McCarty just played balls out defense which went a long way to making them gell as a team - hell Jim O'Brien even had Kenny Andersen playing great D

Then on the Pistons , Michael Curry, Jon Barry provided the glue behind Stack and Ben 

Chemistry and balance is what it is all about - but for it to be all about that , it has to get back to strong leadership coming from the Coaching staff - to be able to get players to buy into the collective instead of the individual considerations

And that's a hard thing to do in this business because of the inherent mistrust that accompanies the type of business it can be

I'm convinced the Clippers missed the playoffs last year because they had weak leadership and structure. Kandi and McInnis basically hijacked their chances with their play because they were playing for contracts - not competing for the playoffs. Alvin Gentry is too pissweak to manage this and lets this team take its own destiny which frankly, they are too young and inexperienced to have any realistic chance of managing properly 

George Karl and the implosion of the Bucks.. Larry Brown and Allen Iverson ( and therefore the rest of the Sixers ) these are guys that have not been able to resolve power dynamics/plays with their players to let them know who is in charge and the consequences have been the downslide of their clubs . Same with Flip in not being able to manage the KG/Wally problem. Same with Mo Cheeks in being up against it in Portland

This is the real danger that the Pacers face in the East this year with so many contract renewals and players taking matters into their own hands. On paper the Pacers should at least make it to the 2nd round and compete hard.. possibly an EC finals berth if you wanted to stretch it that far.... IMO I think they will struggle to make the playoffs with Jermaine, Brad, Jon , Rambo , Jeff - all playing for the green. How does Isiah manage Rambo, Bender , Reggie, Mercer ( remember Denver ) and blood new rook Fred Jones when 3 of them are in contract years and Mercer will earn $8M this year - "Yo Coach, this punk's got his green - I need mine and to get it I need the rock " They should not struggle but it is plausible that they will have problems that are not basketball related which by the nature will become basketball related ( See Kandi and Jeff in Clipperville last year ) 

Rick Carlisle on the other hand .... Now there is a guy who is not belts and braces but he knows how to manage people in a common cause. I admit for the fact that he had his talent consolidated and had ( by nature and disposition ) a greater number of guys on his roster that were more prepared to play their role - his job was maybe a bit easier - same with Jim O'Brien in beantown - there was a natural defined pecking order . So where there is a natural defined pecking order and Rick gets Stack to do what he did last season ( even though he came up short in the playoffs ) it bodes well for Stack as a player and the Wiz who has a player at the top of his game who will do what it takes to win - and if that means involving his teammates more than he did it and did it without fuss or complaint.

Nate McMillan is another guy who I admire a lot and I think if ownership ever commits to getting rid of Gary Payton ( who does the Sonics more harm than good ) and he is given a chance to start over .. could do some real good things . He takes no crap from Payton and calls it as he sees it without openly disrespecting Glove which is a no no given the Glove's obsession with getting dissed which is at the cornerstone of his fragile superstar ego. Great player - but the mind of a punk. I like Mo Cheeks too and see him similarly to Nate but that poor bastit has a real difficult deck to deal with in Portland

The Wiz situation will be interesting. I think their chemistry wil be fine but it could easily go the other way if allowed to develop in the wrong hands. Clearly it is MJ's team but Doug Collins is a crash or crash through guy and aint that subtle . Strong man management from coaching is not necessarily about yelling and screaming and belittling your players with negative reinforcement hoping this works - its about having subtelty to get players to figure out for themselves what needs to be done in the scheme and to get them to take ownership of the blueprint that has been designed for them 

The only caveat I put on their Chemistry is the same concerns I put on our Chemistry . We have good players on paper but they have not played together and apart from the Nets situation last year it is very difficult to make big structural changes and have instant Chem. Teams normally need to commit to a core , surround them with the right role players and allow a few seasons for it to develop before you can put your hand on your heart and say - Yup that team has Chem

I wanted Jay bad for a long time - I have become a believer in just how good Jalen is and Yell excites the heck out of me - as does what Curry and Chandler are developing into . But excluding individual player development issues aside - we have big changes to bed down to get comfortable as a team . We had half a season with Jalen and basically we did not have ERob or Jamal last season ( who did not play much in the previous season ) and we have Jay and Yell to fold in who are new

So we basically have all of this inexperience AS A TEAM ( which is why our young guys stunk up the Summer League so bad ) which is going to be difficult to meld everyone into the mix

And I think this is one of our greatest challenges this season which will hold us back just as much - if not more than anything else. These guys have to know how to play together and that takes time

It's Bill Cartwright's challenge in facilitory leadership in how he can accelerate this. Make no mistake Cartwright is every bit as much under the pump as our players to make this work - more so actually . He's the conductor - the players are the band

But it's also about courage from the GM to consolidate talent and get the right role players - and right now we need to thin and consolidate to give Cartwright a better chance of managing on the floor . 

Its the disclipline to get outside of a line of thinking of "Uh they are the #4 and #8 draft picks from a draft two years ago and we want to see what they will become " ITs a catch 22 - because where decisions have already been made where we are going and who we are going with they will never be all what some think they can be. Not here. So you are taking on Chemistry problems with no realistic chance of proper resolution allowing a subrogated and balanced pecking order to emerge because you have the featherduster thinking its a rooster . Once proper definition occurs, as it should , only then can you make some headway into building and maintaining proper chemistry 

That's why Fizer and Crawford must be dealt - and if such a trade appears lopsided against us then maybe its really what their value is in the league ( which is less than what their fans think about them ) and additionally it is not about getting ripped in what we would like their value to be - but nominally , maybe it is the price to pay for the development of Chemistry and becoming a winning ballclub that has a real shot to compete down the road


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

wow, I actualy agree with 100% of that post. The thing that troubles me the most is what you said about the Pacers, and it troubles me because it is a fact. With almost their whole core of key players comming under contract with the exception of Harrington and Tinsley, how will the team manage to play together this year? I think players who are ment to fit certain roles, like Artest for instance as a lock down defender, will try to play outside their roles and score points. If everyone out there is only looking to get theirs so that they can get fat contracts, the Pacers will have a hard time getting over the .500 mark they've been stuck at for the past to years. And Thomas is not the coach I would want to take care of such a huge problem as this. He good at motivating his players to get better, but I've seen him do some pretty strange things as a coach. So all in all I agree, team chemisty is very underrated these days, and it is one of the more important if not THE most important aspect of a team. So as far as chemisty goes, I would say you have a huge edge over alot of teams this year. The only hurdle I can see is how Jay and Jalen get along, although they seem to be doing fine so far so it could end up not even being a problem.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

Quite a treatise there, FJ. :clap:

I only take issue with the notion that Fizer and Crawford must be traded in the interests of chemistry.

Virtually every player enters the NBA thinking they are going to be a star player. The fact is, few actually become that. The league is full of former college stars and lottery picks who have settled into lengthy (and financially lucrative) careers as role players. Fizer need look no further than his own teammate Donyell Marshall for an example of a former college star and #4 pick who has settled into playing a role in the NBA.

If Cartwright can get these guys to look past becoming a star as the objective and instead focus them on playing winning team basketball, the Bulls can develop good chemistry without upsetting the roster.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Peter Vescey</b>!
> 
> 
> Bummer fella. You got all that great young talent, you're self-proclaimed in better shape than the Bulls, but you got no fans over there to bask in the glory of it all or what? Gotta be pretty depressing.
> ...


Wow you are something... you can't get enough in posting under F_J_ of Rockaway so you have to go under this BS peter vescey and insult and talk trash to more posters. Thats great, very creative


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I wouldnt doubt it Clipshow. I wouldnt doubt it at all.


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## Peter Vescey (Oct 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> Wow you are something... you can't get enough in posting under F_J_ of Rockaway so you have to go under this BS peter vescey and insult and talk trash to more posters. Thats great, very creative


Wow, very insightful. About as well thought out as the Clips draft. Actually, both you and Ringo. Sure you aren't one in the same? 

As for the issues fella, cat got your tongue? Or do you agree you're teams future mirrors its past and is utterly irrelevant?


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## Thrilla (Jun 8, 2002)

*My take.......*

Pacers- Their managment has said they will bring them all back...they said they are committed to winning. Those playing their last year under contract wont hve to prove their worth as much as the Clippers do. Sterling is known for being cheap.

Bulls and Clippers, Clippers and Bulls

Can we agree that both have the most potential and young talent? Someone wont agree......I see it already

The Clippers have a chance to be the best team in history.
Kandi/Brand/Odom/Richardson/Miller with a bench of Dooling, Jaric, Wilcox, Maggette, and Ely is a very good, young team.

Problem is.........Sterling or not, they cant stay under the luxury cap with all of them. Some will have to leave. Between Brand, Kandi, Odom, Miller........only 2 will stay IMO due to money issues.


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## Tri_N (Aug 19, 2002)

> As for the issues fella, cat got your tongue? Or do you agree you're teams future mirrors its past and is utterly irrelevant?


Try to use correct grammar because I have a hard time understanding this statement. I am assuming that you meant, "Or have you agree that your team future mirrors its past" and I am lost of your last statement. As for the other two, they are the most ignorant posters I have ever seen in a long time. Why are you two in here anyway? Are you feeling lonely in the Pacers and Clippers forum? What's more sad than our Bulls franchise is the type of fans that your team has over the years... A bunch of bandwagoners...


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Bandwagoners on the Pacers? We dont even have enough real fans to have bandwagoners. I do agree that there have been alot of "new" clipper fans over the past few years though once they started getting hype. Anyways, Im done arguing with the lot of you. Theres a few of you who cant even have a debate on here without getting angry. 

Have fun


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Anyway back to the original topic .. finally

Amare is scary

Maybe the best way to motivate Tyson is to keep feeding him Amare's line from the previous night with his cornflakes


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

This thread was getting way outta control.

:topic: 

There were a lot of personal attackish type posts made that I'm not going to go back and edit, but let's just agree as a forum of posters to avoid even what might be categorized as harsh criticism if it's unnecessary. If you think you're smarter than everyone else on the board, that's fine.. just be so kind as to be courteous in educating the rest of us peons.

And if it's simply a difference of opinion, let's not get too riled up about it but keep it on a rational level, so that the argument can culminate at some conclusion.

And at the very least, let's remember the topic and not let the discussion run away. If you want to start a Clips v. Bulls thread, then go for it, and let the rest of the posting community in... it's not fair for people who might be interested in such a discussion but aren't interested in Amare and thus never read this thread.

Thanks. 

As for my opinion, Amare is going to be a monster and he shows a lot more in the preseason than Tyson or Eddy did. I don't think we need to question the motivation of Tyson or Eddy in how they are working on their games... high schoolers in the NBA are really hard pressed to understand what it is to even "work on their games". Amare, somewhere along the line, got a concept of what that meant for him personally, and it shows in the way he can perform at an NBA level. Tyson and Eddy came in under some bad coaching (I think the main strategy was to let them dwell on the bench while they so-called learned in practice, to "bring them along slowly", but Pink Floyd didn't really understand what that entailed as far as training their personal basketball lives), and are only now beginning to understand how to work hard in their private training. 

I think Amare's "they don't know how to work hard" statement isn't that far off, in that sense, but I don't think it will doom Eddy and Tyson at all. Jermaine and TMac blossomed a little later, once they got PT, because when they became integral parts of their teams, they were forced to improve. Eddy and Tyson will see similar pressures, and BC is a conventional, no-nonsense coach, which means that Eddy and Tyson are going to be fundamentally sound players if they listen to what Coach tells them to do.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> This thread was getting way outta control.
> 
> :topic:
> ...


That post should go in the hall of fame Showtyme!


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Well the thread had kind of self regulated....


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

On a personal note, I find it entertaining when the topic sometimes slightly deviates. As long as it's still basketball related. Some of the comments I read got my Bulls fan blood boiling, which is fun.

Anyway,back to the topic. Amare seems to have a more refined game than Tyson Chandler. Just as Kwame Brown and Eddie Curry do as well. Stoudamire also seems to be quite active defensively, although he probably isn't the stopper Tyson is. He is also a tad smaller than last years' vintage of high schoolers. Overall, I think he will turn out to be a great player, just as Tyson and Eddie will.


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## Peter Vescey (Oct 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>laso</b>!
> On a personal note, I find it entertaining when the topic sometimes slightly deviates. As long as it's still basketball related. Some of the comments I read got my Bulls fan blood boiling, which is fun.
> 
> Anyway,back to the topic. Amare seems to have a more refined game than Tyson Chandler. Just as Kwame Brown and Eddie Curry do as well. Stoudamire also seems to be quite active defensively, although he probably isn't the stopper Tyson is. He is also a tad smaller than last years' vintage of high schoolers. Overall, I think he will turn out to be a great player, just as Tyson and Eddie will.


Personally, I'd prefer there were Suns posters in here and not Clips posters. Not because of the raging off topic debate, but because I'd like to see more anecdotal evidence of why Amare can make these statements. The Suns posters would be the most qualified naturally. Unless I've missed it theres just a generalization about him. I haven't seen him play in the summer league and preseason so I can't draw my own conclusion about him...


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

I don't like Amare at all, but maybe this will be the start of a new rivalry. You never know.
And also, thoguh i had to drag it back onto the Clips topic, but i had to jus take issue with these two statements:


> Q Rich/ Pike combo is better than Rose and Hassel, Pike can score and is much better than Hassel, and now he has the perfect pg in Dre who is gonna give him a ton of looks





> I can see Rose and Q being about equal but Q is getting better with every game and will soon pass Rose. Pike is better than hassel, look at the stats, when has hassel ever finished top 5 in any catagory. IMO those PG are all in the same universe.


What!?! There is no way in any universe that Qrich is even half the player Rose is. How many guys put up 24, 6 and 4 regularly in this league? How many players could sit for the entire 4th quarter several times under Isaiah and still be in the league's top 5 or 6 in 4th quarter scoring? I like Qrich, but comparing him to Jalen is just rediculous. IMHO he will never be as good as Rose is now. If he ever becomes a better player than Jalen, it will years from now when Jalen is too old to be a starter.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
> I don't like Amare at all, but maybe this will be the start of a new rivalry. You never know.
> And also, thoguh i had to drag it back onto the Clips topic, but i had to jus take issue with these two statements:
> 
> What!?! There is no way in any universe that Qrich is even half the player Rose is. How many guys put up 24, 6 and 4 regularly in this league? How many players could sit for the entire 4th quarter several times under Isaiah and still be in the league's top 5 or 6 in 4th quarter scoring? I like Qrich, but comparing him to Jalen is just rediculous. IMHO he will never be as good as Rose is now. If he ever becomes a better player than Jalen, it will years from now when Jalen is too old to be a starter.


Q doesn't even start, thats why you can't compare stats, I'm gonna go look at compare stats for ppg by minutes, but hopefully he will start, however Pike is playing great (maybe even over his head) because dre is such a great distributor.
I think Q will be much better because he has a bigger arsenal of moves at his disposal. One thing not many people know unless there clips fans is that he might be one of the best post up sg in the league. the guy is built and extremely explosive, he backs em down and spins around. Last year he worked on his outside shot and three ball, at one point in time he made like 14 in a row over 3 games. His explosiveness also allows him to elevate and get rebounds and put backs on the offensive side. He will be better than Rose IMO, but like everything else we will have to wait and see how they both do in the next few seasons. 
I think as long as Jalen is on the Bulls he'll average more PPG because most of the plays will be drawn for him and he'll play big minutes (like D-Miles now in Cleveland), while Q will contribute for a winning team. Remember just my opinion.:uhoh:


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

:topic: 

About Q, I think that he will end up being slightly better than Rose. He is amazingly strong for a wing player, and is great in the post. Also, he can really get up, and is a fairly intelligent player. I know this sounds wierd, but to me he almost seems like a guard version of Barkley with his unique combination of strength, athleticism, instincts, and skill.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

Look ,i really like Q- he's a local guy- but Jalen is one of the league's premier offensive go-to guys. He can take over a game offensively- there are not many who can do that in this league. By putting him on the same level as Q, IMO you guys are waaaay underrating him.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Yea, Im a huge Q fan, and the guy will be a big player in this league in the comming years. But something people dont realise about Rose is that he is just as good with his left, as he is with his right. He can shoot with both hands, layup with both hands and so on. I think hes one of the more underrated guys in the L. First he was sharing with Reggie and JO so his numbers werent where they should have been, and now people under value him because hes on the Bulls. I think next year he'll get around 23-6-5. Those are allstar numbers, yet he still doesnt get the respect he deserves.


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## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Yea, Im a huge Q fan, and the guy will be a big player in this league in the comming years. But something people dont realise about :no: Rose is that he is just as good with his left, as he is with his right.:no: He can shoot with both hands, layup with both hands and so on. I


You are a Pacer fan and a big Rose fan. Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but he is Left handed:laugh: :laugh:


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but  :topic: 

Start a new thread, guys.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

:topic: I know, but just as a reply. I know that rose is left handed, but if you watch, he can also shoot and layup with his righthand. He is predominantly left, but if he needs to use his right, he does it just as well as he does with his left.


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## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

You imply that he is right handed.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

It was meant to mean he is as good with both hands. You know hes a lefty, I know hes a lefty. No big deal.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

so i says to Mabel i says


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> so i says to Mabel i says


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

The discussion shows no interest in Amare, and thus, I am beginning a new thread more appropriate to the discussion, so as to inform the rest of the posting community as to the existence of the "what hand does Jalen use" and "is Q better than Rose" discussion.


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