# Convince me: OJ Mayo vs. Wayne Ellington



## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

Please tell me why OJ Mayo is a better prospect than Wayne Ellington. Both undersized SG's (don't give me that crap about OJ being a PG, he's a selfish SG all the way and doesn't make anyone around him better). Wayne is clearly the better shooter of the two just by looking at the numbers. Neither one of them are great distributors of the ball and look for their own offense first. Neither one is a great rebounder. OJ has better quickness off the dribble, but Ellington is just as good at creating his own shot and has better shot selection. Neither one is a great defender. I guess OJ is stronger right now, but Wayne could easily achieve that in one year of NBA strength training. So what makes OJ so superior to Wayne? Cause I'm not seeing it.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

You seriously believe that Wayne Ellington is as good as OJ Mayo? I mean, seriously? And OJ Mayo measured out at 6'5" in shoes at the Nike Hoops Summit, so I'm not sure how he qualifies as "undersized".


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

i do think Mayo is overrated but I'd still take him over Ellington even though its closer than most realize

i'd take Eric Gordon over both of them


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

By "closer than most people realize" do you mean "Most people don't think Ellington will make the NBA, but he'll show you guys!!!". Because otherwise they aren't close at all.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

NO WAY do you take Ellington over Mayo, or even close.

Mayo is still about 5th pick imo (after considering the flaws in his game including being selfish). If you think he has off-court issues and attitude problems, he's still top 10.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

No comparison. Mayo's upside is infinitely greater than Ellingtons'

What makes OJ Mayo superior you say?

Better ball handling skills
More versatile scorer
Better athlete
Better passer
Better defender
Creates his own shot better than Wayne

Really the only thing Wayne does better than OJ is shoot


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Wow, people really dont like OJ Mayo much do they?

The guys an elite scorer, and will be a very good scorer on the next level. Hes just a flat out better basketball player than Ellington, whose no slouch, but hes just not the prospect that OJ is. I think a lot of teams would be praying that OJ Mayo is slipping on draft charts, if he goes past 5 hes a massive steal.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

HB said:


> No comparison. Mayo's upside is infinitely greater than Ellingtons'
> 
> What makes OJ Mayo superior you say?
> 
> ...


He's not that good of a defender. Not a lock down guy. And not that much better than Wayne.
Not that great of an athlete either, not freakish like Monta Ellis or anything.
He doesn't create his own shot better than Wayne and hi sshot selection is awful.
You'd think with how much he handles the ball he could get more than 4 assists a game.

Sorry, but the upside you are talking about is purely his hype machine. He's just another volume shooter with a bad attitude. Will get his 20 a game and his team will lose by 10.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Wayne Ellington is a terrible shot creator, he isn't in the same galaxy as Mayo in that regard. As Mayo's aFG% is .517, I can't see that his shot selection is all that "awful". And as he averages a mere 2FGAs more than Ellington, does that mean that Ellington's a "volume shooter": as well?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

ehmunro said:


> Wayne Ellington is a terrible shot creator, he isn't in the same galaxy as Mayo in that regard. As Mayo's aFG% is .517, I can't see that his shot selection is all that "awful". And as he averages a mere 2FGAs more than Ellington, does that mean that Ellington's a "volume shooter": as well?


I dont know about Wayne being a terrible shot creater. OJ might be better, but Wayne certainly isnt terrible. He uses shot fakes well, and works very well with the average screen setters on UNC's squad. If they run him off screens in the NBA, he won't have any problems taking and making shots. 



> He's not that good of a defender. Not a lock down guy. And not that much better than Wayne.
> Not that great of an athlete either, not freakish like Monta Ellis or anything.
> He doesn't create his own shot better than Wayne and hi sshot selection is awful.
> You'd think with how much he handles the ball he could get more than 4 assists a game.
> ...


I really don't know how to respond to this


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> I dont know about Wayne being a terrible shot creater. OJ might be better, but Wayne certainly isnt terrible. He uses shot fakes well, and works very well with the average screen setters on UNC's squad. If they run him off screens in the NBA, he won't have any problems taking and making shots.


He's great at running off screens, but that isn't "creating his own shot", that's a forward creating a shot for him by providing him a screen. Creating your own shot implies that you can do it without any help (i.e. take your man off the dribble). If Wayne Ellington is "great" at creating his own shot, then J.J. Redick and Ammo were better, and they haven't exactly been NBA marvels. I can't really see what separates Ellington from a legion of good college guards that come along every year and go on to nice careers in Europe.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^He does use the pump fake well to get by his defenders. He also has shown pretty good ball handling skills to evade defenders. Really as a shooter he doesn't need to many moves to get his points. For guys like OJ who is more of a scorer, its more of a necessity.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

You obviously haven't watched much of Ellington this year if you think he can't create his own shot. His one dribble step back jumper is a thing of beauty, and he can get it whenever he wants. His ability to attack with that jumper is unparalleled at the college level right now, that's for sure. (OK, Eric Gordon is better). The idea that plenty of Euro-level guards can do what Ellington does is downright ridiculous. 

I see the point about Redick and Morrison - both could create shots at the college level, and haven't been able to continue that in the NBA. But both players had to work a lot, and I mean a lot harder to create those looks than Ellington does. The offense would grind to a halt as Morrison worked to set up his moves, and his shots were of the complicated, high-arcing, body-contorted variety. The same thing can be said for Redick. He had an entire offense working to create those looks for him, and he often resorted to drawing fouls on the perimeter through pump fakes and the like. 

Furthermore, both players have shown the ability to be very effective scorers in the NBA. Morrison has put in a handful of games where he was absolutely the best player on the floor, but his issue is an inconsistent jump shot and a deathly slow first step that leaves him too reliant on low-percentage shots. More athletic lead scorers get a handful of easy opportunities that boost their effiency, where Morrison gets almost none. Stan Van Gundy has said that Redick would play a lot more if he could keep up on the defensive end. This is another reason why Morrison is going to struggle to remain a starter even if he comes back at full strength from his knee injury. 

I really don't see similar problems for Ellington. Like I said, that step back midrange jumper involves almost no effort at all, and I've never seen a defense consistently contest it. He may not be Derrick Rose or even OJ Mayo as an athlete, but he is a hell of a lot better than most give him credit for around here. His first step is quite quick for a 2-guard, and he is an excellent slasher/finisher. You never saw Redick/Morrison blow by people, and Ellington does it all the time. He's also very slick as a ballhandler, as evidenced by the low TO numbers. You never see him getting stripped when he's taking the ball to the basket like what happens to OJ Mayo all the time. 

At the same time, OJ Mayo is obviously the superior NBA prospect. He's playing an entirely different role at USC this year, where he is the man and the only man. Teams can key in on him in ways they can't with Ellington. Mayo is a better athlete, much more of a point guard, and has the potential to be downright devestating from the midrange. He could take a page out of Ellington's book as a finisher, though.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You can count Morrison's games where he was the best player on the floor in the NBA on one hand and the end result might be 2. Morrison was one of the worst players in the NBA last year. Redick isn't far behind him either.

Ellington isn't much better than them (in fact I don't see where all this love is coming from). He has more in common with them then someone like Mayo.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HKF said:


> Ellington isn't much better than them (in fact I don't see where all this love is coming from). He has more in common with them then someone like Mayo.


You keep saying this, but you really haven't backed it up with anything except generalizations that aren't true such as a lack of athleticism and slow release on his shot.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Looks a lot like JameSon Curry to me...Except that Curry has more skill at getting his shot off and better handles...Good enough for the D league.Ellington is going to be a good college player so long as the opposing team is entirely focused on stopping an inside player and stopping PG penetration.If the defense were focused upon him he'd just be average.Say what you want about Redick,but at the college level he was ten times the scorer that Ellington is or will ever be.He was also a better passer and a better ballhandler...And yes he's a marginal NBA player.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

JamesOn Curry better at getting his shot off? At this point, I'm going to assume your opinion on Ellington is biased because you are a Duke fan, and that you've never seen Curry play. JamesOn Curry, in his wildest dreams, was never half the shooter that Ellington is off the dribble.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> Wayne Ellington is a terrible shot creator, he isn't in the same galaxy as Mayo in that regard. As Mayo's aFG% is .517, I can't see that his shot selection is all that "awful". And as he averages a mere 2FGAs more than Ellington, does that mean that Ellington's a "volume shooter": as well?


Try 44% buddy, and that number will drop even more once he gets to the league and has tougher defenders on him. He will shoot below 40% for his 1st couple years in the NBA, book it.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Wayne's an NBA player, but I'm not sure it's fair to put him on the same level as Mayo. If you can't distribute at 6'4, chances are you're not starting in the league.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

Jonathan Watters said:


> You keep saying this, but you really haven't backed it up with anything except generalizations that aren't true such as a lack of athleticism and slow release on his shot.


That's all HKF does is generalize. He picks out his favorite players and supports them to the death. Then find guys he hates and will give them no credit in any aspect.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

RebelSun said:


> Wayne's an NBA player, but I'm not sure it's fair to put him on the same level as Mayo. If you can't distribute at 6'4, chances are you're not starting in the league.


I'm not saying Wayne is on OJ's level, I'm just saying OJ's level isn't that far above Wayne's.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

jimmybean said:


> Try 44% buddy, and that number will drop even more once he gets to the league and has tougher defenders on him. He will shoot below 40% for his 1st couple years in the NBA, book it.


Try .517 aFG%. And please know the difference if you're interested in claiming expertise. And please understand why aFG% is important when discussing perimeter players. Given Ellington's slow release and athleticism, he's going to struggle just like JJ Redick & Ammo have. Mayo will have better luck due to his ability to create his own shot. Something that he's going to be able to do at the pro level that Ellington won't.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> Try .517 aFG%. And please know the difference if you're interested in claiming expertise. And please understand why aFG% is important when discussing perimeter players. Given Ellington's slow release and athleticism, he's going to struggle just like JJ Redick & Ammo have. Mayo will have better luck due to his ability to create his own shot. Something that he's going to be able to do at the pro level that Ellington won't.


Whatever, FG% is all I care about, and Mayo's is less than impressive. Wow, OJ can get his shot off fast, too bad it never goes in, especially from 3pt range. Wayne's never had a problem getting his shot off at any level, and he won't have a problem in the league. His athleticism is 100% better than guys like Reddick, that comparison makes you lose all credibility in my eyes. Reddick can't even dunk, Wayne has some nice dunks on people if you check out youtube.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

You're just talking to talk at this point. 

Ellington doesn't have a slow release. Find me one scouting report anywhere, and I mean anywhere, that says this. You will find report after report gushing about his release. The idea that Ellington has a slow release simply isn't true. It is "slow" only in the Ray Allen, Allan Houston sense. His release is absolute lightning, given the elevation he gets and where he shoots it from. Nothing short of lightning quick. 

Unremarkable non-athletes that can't create their own shot don't score 36 points and create their own shot at will against a team of standout athletes like Clemson. Simply doesn't happen. 

Of course he's been proving this all year and not just in the Clemson game, but we'll stick to the blatantly obvious for now.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

Jonathan Watters said:


> You're just talking to talk at this point.
> 
> Ellington doesn't have a slow release. Find me one scouting report anywhere, and I mean anywhere, that says this. You will find report after report gushing about his release. The idea that Ellington has a slow release simply isn't true. It is "slow" only in the Ray Allen, Allan Houston sense. His release is absolute lightning, given the elevation he gets and where he shoots it from. Nothing short of lightning quick.
> 
> ...


Very well said.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

jimmybean said:


> Whatever, FG% is all I care about, and Mayo's is less than impressive.


In other words, you have no idea what you're talking about. Thanks for playing.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

His release as compared to Redick's, Lofton, Korver, the kid from OSU I forgot his name, heck even Ray Allen is slow. Anyone that has watched those players can attest to that


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> In other words, you have no idea what you're talking about. Thanks for playing.


No,I know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about 44% from the field and an amazing 37% from 3pt range. I don't really care about the stats you wanna throw out. Those are the one's that matter to me. Have a nice day.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I'm not really involved with the Mayo vs Ellington debate, because I think Mayo is clearly the superior prospect. But still, Mayo's true statistical performance is being misrepresented here. If we are going to go so far as to use supposedly "advanced" stats as a blanket defense of an argument, the context absolutely has to come with it. 

I really don't care what Mayo has done against St Mary's School For the Blind, and I can't imagine why anybody on an NBA Draft message board would. So let's focus on Mayo's 9 games that were either against a high-major opponent or ended in defeat - the games that actually matter. 

All of a sudden, he's not a very efficient offensive player. His EFG% drops to 48%. His 3-Pt shooting to under 33%. His Ast/To ratio to an absolutely embarrasing for a guy who has the ball in his hands all the time 1/2. 

(FWIW, I ran the numbers on Ellington as well. His EFG% is a sparkling 57%, in all games and in games that matter. He's shooting 50% from 3 on 5+ attempts per game that matters, and is actually shooting more often)

Now obviously Mayo is in a completely different situation, but when the competition increases, so does his usage and his efficiency plummets. Ellington's usage increases as well, but his efficiency stays the same/gets slightly better.

So according to the stats, which one of these players is the one that can create their own shot?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> His release as compared to Redick's, Lofton, Korver, the kid from OSU I forgot his name, heck even Ray Allen is slow. Anyone that has watched those players can attest to that


And all the college players mentioned above must really work to get their shot off when pressured. Ellington? Not in the least bit. How could this be, if Redick and Lofton have so much quicker releases? You are grasping at straws here, and you know it.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

jimmybean said:


> No,I know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about 44% from the field and an amazing 37% from 3pt range. I don't really care about the stats you wanna throw out. Those are the one's that matter to me.


Right, you have no idea what you're talking about. We've already covered that.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> Right, you have no idea what you're talking about. We've already covered that.


44 - 37 - all that needs to be said.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> So according to the stats, which one of these players is the one that can create their own shot?


That would be the guy that doesn't need the constant screens to create separation from his defender. Can you point me to the stat that measures that?


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Wait Wayne Ellington is considered a lottery pick? Are we talking NBDL draft?


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Its not like 44% is that bad from a SG, id say its around average. And 37% from downtown is not a problem either, for a guy who shoots a lot, those percentages arent too shabby.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> That would be the guy that doesn't need the constant screens to create separation from his defender. Can you point me to the stat that measures that?


Well, maybe somebody should start screening for Mayo then. His numbers in games that matter aren't very impressive. And it is funny how as soon as somebody pokes a hole in your numbers, they don't matter anymore. 

And if you are implying that Ellington gets all his points coming off screens, that's about as fraudelent an assertion a person could possibly make here. Ellington has been consistently creating his own all season. Just saying that he needs a screen to create seperation doesn't make it true - even if you are the one saying it.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> That would be the guy that doesn't need the constant screens to create separation from his defender. Can you point me to the stat that measures that?


God you are [strike]stupid[/strike]. Ellington is rarely running off screens in order to get his shot. Do you even watch UNC play? Most of his shots come off his devastating step-back dribble move that he's killed people with since I first saw him play as a Junior in HS. He has no problem getting his own shot. All your talk is complete garbage.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

BG44 said:


> Its not like 44% is that bad from a SG, id say its around average. And 37% from downtown is not a problem either, for a guy who shoots a lot, those percentages arent too shabby.


37% in college is garbage. Thats like really bad, especially from a guy who is supposed to be a top 5 pick? Even worse. That equals 30% in the NBA.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> Wait Wayne Ellington is considered a lottery pick? Are we talking NBDL draft?


I'm pretty sure we have to be.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> His release as compared to Redick's, Lofton, Korver, the kid from OSU I forgot his name, heck even Ray Allen is slow. Anyone that has watched those players can attest to that


HB are you referring to Diebler from OSU?


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

jimmybean said:


> 37% in college is garbage. Thats like really bad, especially from a guy who is supposed to be a top 5 pick? Even worse. That equals 30% in the NBA.


You have a stat to prove that 37% in college means he will shoot 30% in the NBA.

No? Didnt think so.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Well, maybe somebody should start screening for Mayo then. His numbers in games that matter aren't very impressive. And it is funny how as soon as somebody pokes a hole in your numbers, they don't matter anymore.


Could you point out where I said anything like that? I understand the reasoning behind the separation, given how badly Ellington played in that Penn game.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

BG44 said:


> You have a stat to prove that 37% in college means he will shoot 30% in the NBA.
> 
> No? Didnt think so.


LOL at you, you think dropping back 3 more feet will make his percentage go up? At best he shoots like 32-33.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> Could you point out where I said anything like that? I understand the reasoning behind the separation, given how badly Ellington played in that Penn game.


Funny how you didn't address the numbers he put up that shot a hole in your statement. Just choosing to ignore them buddy?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

bball2223 said:


> HB are you referring to Diebler from OSU?


Yup thats him


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

jimmybean said:


> LOL at you, you think dropping back 3 more feet will make his percentage go up? At best he shoots like 32-33.


LOL at U OMG!!111!!11

Mayo can shoot NBA three pointers. You think on a team where he isnt the number one option...and he gets wide open looks...no...no forget it, it makes too much sense.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> And all the college players mentioned above must really work to get their shot off when pressured. Ellington? Not in the least bit. How could this be, if Redick and Lofton have so much quicker releases? You are grasping at straws here, and you know it.


You do know I am an Ellington fan right? I have been rooting for him from the get go. I just won't be unrealistic about his game.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

BG44 said:


> Its not like 44% is that bad from a SG, id say its around average. And 37% from downtown is not a problem either, for a guy who shoots a lot, those percentages arent too shabby.


Those are average shootig numbers for a college guard considered to be a lotto pick.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> Yup thats him


Diebler has the quickest release I have ever seen in person. I watched him a couple of times in High School and he was incredible. He would literally take one dribble over half court pull up and hit a 3 like it was nothing. Once he adds 10-15 more pounds he is going to be an incredible college player. Back to the topic though anyone who would take Ellington over OJ needs their head checked. Ellington is better at moving without the ball, and shooting off the catch and thats about it. if OJ was playing on a team with someone who could help shoulder the offensive load he would be that much better.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

jimmybean said:


> Funny how you didn't address the numbers he put up that shot a hole in your statement. Just choosing to ignore them buddy?


No, actually, I just assumed that people would be intelligent enough to understand that the second option jumpshooter on a college all star team whose primary scorer is a highly efficient low post scorer, preventing big men from effectively blitzing him, would be able to shoot more efficiently. You see, because of the team he plays on, Ellington gets better space than Mayo. Ellington has also adapted to this level of play, unlike the guy whose NCAA career spans 14 games. So, no, I'm really not going to worry about it until the end of the year when I watch him in the tournament. Then I'll watch to see how he deals with the defensive pressure. 

As for your claims that moving two feet back will drop his three point shooting percentage by 10%-20%, it's as silly as the rest of the claims from yourself and the guy that told us all that Ammo was the new Dirk Nowitzki. The fact is that moving the NBA line back in the late 90s didn't cause three point percentages to plummet (in fact they're basically the same now as in the days of Houston's title years). So unless you have some evidence to support your claim, I'll continue to take them with a [strike]grain[/strike] 50lb. bag of salt.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

BG44 said:


> LOL at U OMG!!111!!11
> 
> Mayo can shoot NBA three pointers. You think on a team where he isnt the number one option...and he gets wide open looks...no...no forget it, it makes too much sense.


OJ has to be the number one option or he pouts like a little girl. I've seen it happen in all-star games. And no, he won't get better by dropping back 3 feet. That makes no sense.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> As for your claims that moving two feet back will drop his three point shooting percentage by 10%-20%, it's as silly as the rest of the claims from yourself and the guy that told us all that Ammo was the new Dirk Nowitzki. The fact is that moving the NBA line back in the late 90s didn't cause three point percentages to plummet (in fact they're basically the same now as in the days of Houston's title years). So unless you have some evidence to support your claim, I'll continue to take them with a [strike]grain[/strike] 50lb. bag of salt.


I said 5-7%. Having trouble reading? And my evidence is Kevin Durant and many other rookies from this draft.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Wow..you think Kevin Durant may just be struggling because of the better defenses he faces? And the fact hes an 18 year old playing in a league where some guys are twice his age?

Im pretty sure the fact that the 3pt line is a little further back isnt the thing thats making Kevin Durant's shooting percentages go down...

Also its quite obvious ur just an OJ hater, so theres not much people can say or do that will convince u otherwise.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

BG44 said:


> Wow..you think Kevin Durant may just be struggling because of the better defenses he faces? And the fact hes an 18 year old playing in a league where some guys are twice his age?
> 
> Im pretty sure the fact that the 3pt line is a little further back isnt the thing thats making Kevin Durant's shooting percentages go down...
> 
> Also its quite obvious ur just an OJ hater, so theres not much people can say or do that will convince u otherwise.


LOL, you think OJ wont be facing those same better defenses and won't be playing against guys 10 years older than him? Durant may get better from behind the arc and then again he may not. I never said OJ couldn't get better, but I said his first couple years he'd shoot in the low 30's.

You're right I don't like Mayo's game. So what? He's selfish, bottom line.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

I was talking about Kevin Durant, not OJ Mayo.

OJ most likely wont be in the same position that Kevin Durant is. The Sonics have noone but him. OJ Will be a top 3 pick, meaning at this stage hed go to either the Wolves, Heat or Knicks.

The Wolves have an inside presence in Jefferson, and a solid 2 guard in McCants. The also have Randy Foye when he comes back from injury. So theres a few guys who can take some pressure off him.

Miami has Wade and Shaq, both guys who draw a lot of defensive attention and create open looks. 

Knicks have Randolph and Curry who draw the defense, plus Marbury and Crawford outside. OJ would probably come off the bench for while before eventually replacing either of those 2 guys in the backcourt. 

The situation Mayo will be in is going to be very different to that of what Kevin Durant is in. Mayo will have to adjust to the NBA, but his body is much stronger and physically ready for the NBA defenses than Durants.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

jimmybean said:


> I said 5-7%. Having trouble reading? And my evidence is Kevin Durant and many other rookies from this draft.


I'm assuming that you weren't a math major?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I am trying to figure out which banned poster Jimmybean is. For someone to know my posting style. Look, I don't need to backup anything I say. It's a message board, you don't like what I say, ignore it. I gave my thoughts, you disagree. I could careless, but when Ellington does nothing in the league, I doubt you'll be around.

I remember a lot of people were hyping Luke Jackson and such and those posters are all gone. Yeah, I'm not always right (who is), but shoot, I know NBA talent. I told JohnG, a good year before it happened that Ben Gordon and Deron Williams were top 5 picks (and they both managed to be top 3 picks). I wrote the scouting report for Kevin Martin when they were known as draftcity and I've been saying that Jerryd Bayless has the most potential of any HS kid in his class, since he was 15 years of age. Now, you don't have to care, because I sure as hell don't.

I just don't think Ellington will amount to a hill of beans in the NBA. Plain and simple. Don't hate him, as I don't know him. I just would not draft him onto my NBA team.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> I'm assuming that you weren't a math major?


Are you kidding me? I said he'd drop from 37 to 30 percent that equalas 7%. Not that hard boyo.


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

HKF said:


> I am trying to figure out which banned poster Jimmybean is. For someone to know my posting style. Look, I don't need to backup anything I say. It's a message board, you don't like what I say, ignore it. I gave my thoughts, you disagree. I could careless, but when Ellington does nothing in the league, I doubt you'll be around.
> 
> I remember a lot of people were hyping Luke Jackson and such and those posters are all gone. Yeah, I'm not always right (who is), but shoot, I know NBA talent. I told JohnG, a good year before it happened that Ben Gordon and Deron Williams were top 5 picks (and they both managed to be top 3 picks). I wrote the scouting report for Kevin Martin when they were known as draftcity and I've been saying that Jerryd Bayless has the most potential of any HS kid in his class, since he was 15 years of age. Now, you don't have to care, because I sure as hell don't.
> 
> I just don't think Ellington will amount to a hill of beans in the NBA. Plain and simple. Don't hate him, as I don't know him. I just would not draft him onto my NBA team.


Now name the 50 players you were wrong about........


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

If Bayless turns out to be a top flight PG - which seems likely now - your gonna look pretty smart HKF. Youve been on that since ive been on this board.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

jimmybean said:


> Are you kidding me? I said he'd drop from 37 to 30 percent that equalas 7%. Not that hard boyo.


Apparently it is, for you. (Here, let me give you a hint, divide 30 by 37 and tell me what you get.)


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## jimmybean (Jan 8, 2008)

ehmunro said:


> Apparently it is, for you. (Here, let me give you a hint, divide 30 by 37 and tell me what you get.)


I'm talking about percentage points, not sure why you would talk about the percent of a percentage. But whatever floats your boat.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> No, actually, I just assumed that people would be intelligent enough to understand that the second option jumpshooter on a college all star team whose primary scorer is a highly efficient low post scorer, preventing big men from effectively blitzing him, would be able to shoot more efficiently. You see, because of the team he plays on, Ellington gets better space than Mayo. Ellington has also adapted to this level of play, unlike the guy whose NCAA career spans 14 games. So, no, I'm really not going to worry about it until the end of the year when I watch him in the tournament. Then I'll watch to see how he deals with the defensive pressure.


Which is why I didn't say I agreed with the sentiment that Ellington=Mayo. 

But for the same reason you have to put team context into Ellington's higher efficiency numbers, you have to at least acknowledge Mayo's inflated numbers against poor competition. If you can't, you obviously aren't interested in figuring out the truth. 

And I think Ellington's strong numbers against strong competition DO enhance my case that Ellington is quite viable as an NBA prospect. Say what you want about Hansbrough, Ellington has bailed UNC out of two games this year almost single-handedly. And it isn't that he can't create separation unless he gets a hundred screens. His step back jumper is a very deadly weapon, and he still has plenty of room to get more athletic. He's a very good finisher. This isn't JJ Redick contorting his body, fading away, and bouncing in a 20 footer from the baseline. And I assumed that intelligent people would be able to realize this.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Nice to see that MarvinWilliams#1in05 made his annual visit to the draft forum so that he could get banned again


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

As for this thread, I find it amazing that someone that is/was such a huge Bill Walker fan would spend this much time trashing OJ Mayo


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> Nice to see that MarvinWilliams#1in05 made his annual visit to the draft forum so that he could get banned again


Ahhhh, and the riddle is solved!


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Seems pretty obvious now...


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

How is he selfish when he isnt the pg on his team? he is the one htats supposed to score and USC systems sucks


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

and LOL @ JJ redick cant even dunk


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## highlite15 (Dec 24, 2007)

jimmybean said:


> Please tell me why OJ Mayo is a better prospect than Wayne Ellington. Both undersized SG's (don't give me that crap about OJ being a PG, he's a selfish SG all the way and doesn't make anyone around him better). Wayne is clearly the better shooter of the two just by looking at the numbers. Neither one of them are great distributors of the ball and look for their own offense first. Neither one is a great rebounder. OJ has better quickness off the dribble, but Ellington is just as good at creating his own shot and has better shot selection. Neither one is a great defender. I guess OJ is stronger right now, but Wayne could easily achieve that in one year of NBA strength training. So what makes OJ so superior to Wayne? Cause I'm not seeing it.


I think you underrate OJ Mayo a bit. He is quicker and more athletic than Wayne right now. His ball handling skills and ability to create shots for other players is much better than Ellingtons WHEN he actively chooses to do that. Its a separate issue as to how often he uses those skills and how capable those skills really are. I think Wayne is a better shooter in large part because his shot selection is much better. Wayne needs to work on his ability to create for other ppl, his strength, and quickness. I liken him to more of a Rip Hamilton style of play in that most of his scoring comes from working off the ball. Whereas Mayo is more dynamic in creating for himself and others when he is in the mood.


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