# Lampe can be bought out right away...



## BillyMadison (Jun 26, 2003)

LOL... Great for my Knicks... I still cannot beleive the fall this guy went through... Seems like a miscommunication and A LOT ofd teams not doing their HOMEWORK... This is from Chad Ford...

Q: What the hell happened to Maciej Lampe?

Lampe got caught in the annual draft day death spiral. Two things contributed to his slide.

One, miscommunication between FIBA, Lampe's agent, Keith Kreiter, and teams about Lampe's contract raised numerous red flags at the last minute. Many NBA teams were under the impression that Lampe would be unable to play in the NBA for several years.

Ooops. As it turns out, Lampe did have a $1.8 million Euro buyout provision in his contract -- not a big deal for a lottery pick. In other words, with a big check in his hands, Lampe could have easily been released to play in the NBA this year.

Two, when Lampe started to slip, there weren't enough teams familiar with him in the mid-to-late first round. Lampe, because of team commitments, didn't come to the U.S. until just before the Chicago pre-draft camp. He did work out for Toronto, Miami, Chicago, Milwaukee, New York, Washington, Seattle and Memphis. But he didn't have time to get in workouts with anyone else.

Mix in numerous pre-arranged promises in the mid-to-late first round with a general unfamiliarity with Lampe and you have the recipe for a draft day disaster.

So what does all of this mean? The Knicks, who seriously debated between Michael Sweetney and Lampe with the No. 9 pick, get him in the second round. Not only is it the steal of the draft, but also an indictment on several NBA teams that picked lesser players over Lampe because they were unfamiliar with him.

Q: Great, Lampe's the steal of the draft. Given the Knicks' track record with international players, will he ever play in New York, let alone in the NBA?

If Scott Layden screws this one up, Knicks fans should stage a revolt. Lampe loses, and the Knicks save, essentially, $5.9 million in guaranteed money. The good news for Lampe is that he's now a second-rounder. That means the Knicks aren't constrained by the rookie salary scale.

If Lampe had gone No. 29, he would've made $803,400 this year and never have gotten out of his buyout. At pick No. 30, however, the Knicks could give him a two-year deal at around $2 million a season. Combine that with the $350,000 they can contribute to a buyout and they can get Lampe out of his contract now.

While it makes sense to leave some kids overseas to develop, it makes less sense for Lampe. The quicker he gets to the NBA and begins developing strength and more quickness, the quicker the Knicks will get some bang for the buck on the floor. Besides, his buyout actually goes up the next two years. Do it now and you save some money.


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## DownUnderWonder (May 27, 2003)

Good post!!!

Yes I honestly hope he is over for the summer. The sooner the better, in terms of learning the NBA style. Will be the steal of this draft, barring Sofo growing 3 inches and losing his fat...


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BillyMadison</b>!
> 
> 
> Two, when Lampe started to slip, there weren't enough teams familiar with him in the mid-to-late first round. Lampe, because of team commitments, didn't come to the U.S. until just before the Chicago pre-draft camp. He did work out for Toronto, Miami, Chicago, Milwaukee, New York, Washington, Seattle and Memphis. But he didn't have time to get in workouts with anyone else.



I dont buy that.

Memphis picked had 3 chances to grab Lampe, and with West being as good a talent advisor as he is, he would have grabbed Lampe at one point, and he did not. He could hae just picked him at 13 if he felt Lampe was that good. Memphis did not need to make that trade, and with LAmpe on the board, if he was deemed a mid lottery pick, Memphis would have pounced on him. If that weren't enough, Memphis does swing a deal with Boston, giving him 2 picks in the mid 1st round, at 16 and 20. Memphis could have told Boston to grab Lampe for them at either one of those picks. But West did not. 

That definitely says something about his talent level. 

Then even before the draft(right before on the TV show), a couple of the ESPN guys had Lampe rated in the middle of the 1st, because he was not as athletic or agile as people were led to believe. When he worked out, he was heavy footed as they put it. And he doesn't go inside much. Not athletic enough to play the 3, not tough enough to play the 4.

I dont deny that the contract weighed in a bit on his draft stock. But, it certainly was not the only factor. He was not as good as many people believe. He was not the Top 5 pick thought; He was more of a mid 1st rounder. That is still a steal in the 2nd round, just not quite as big as most think.


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## bruno34115 (Apr 14, 2003)

it truely was an amazing moment when i saw the knicks fans going crazy and chanting lampes name


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## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

*Give me a break*

lampe is the second best young prospect in Europe and is still like a Junior in High School. 

The youngest player to play for Real Madrid. And he is pretty athletic at just turned 18, imagine at 20+.

The Knicks got a gift, a lottery pick at in the 2 rd round. 

I say his numbers in his second year will be 18/8.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

*come on!!*

your telling me there's somethng wrong with Lampe cuz jerry west passed on him??? Maybe Jerry didnt like his contact situation, whose to say he didnt like that rather than lampe himself?? West is also the one that drafted Gooden only to trade him and giricek away for Mike Miller, so is it safe for me to assume that Gooden's not gonna be a quality NBA player down the line??should i stick a fork in perkins and banks' career just cuz jerry west traded them away too?? COme on, you cant make one man's opinion i dont care who he is, so important.


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## bruno34115 (Apr 14, 2003)

he was passed on late in the first because he had only worked out with lottery teams. and i doubt any gm would take a player purely off of hype.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

I also commented on what Jay Bilas, along with a couple rumors before the draft said.

Rumors were that Lampe was not as agile as people were led to believe, as he had problems dunking off of one foot. Whatever reported went as far as saying who do scouts take us for fools because Lampe was so unimpressive at the workout. 

And Bilas said that he was only a mid 1st rounder, because he was not as athletic as people thought once they worked him out.

Then you add in the West factor, and it all ties intogether. Maciej Lampe was not the Top 10 prospect the media made him out to be. Just like Podkolzin was not either. It was a case of the media overhyping the player.

So Lampe WAS a steal at 30. He just was not a Top 5 pick that fell to the 2nd round like the media made it out to be before the draft. 




> lampe is the second best young prospect in Europe and is still like a Junior in High School.
> 
> The youngest player to play for Real Madrid. And he is pretty athletic at just turned 18, imagine at 20+.


Athleticism is a god given talent. Athleticism is a god given talent. He is not magically going to be a great athlete because he gets older. He is going to be the same type of athlete his entire career. Actually, the older he gets, the worse the athlete he becomes(but that really only applies once you near retirement). Lampe is not a pretty good athlete; Leading up to the draft teams realized this, as it was reported numerous times. He's an average athlete, and that played a role in his slide. Was it the only reason? Certainly not. His contract definitely played a big role in him sliding, it just was not the only factor.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Now that everyone understand's why Lampe slipped, let me take the time to say New York finally got the break they needed! Sweetney was a stupid pick, but Lampe at 30 this guy is dynamite and hopefully we will see him in action next year.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BillyMadison</b>!
> 
> If Lampe had gone No. 29, he would've made $803,400 this year and never have gotten out of his buyout. At pick No. 30, however,* the Knicks could give him a two-year deal at around $2 million a season.* Combine that with the $350,000 they can contribute to a buyout and they can get Lampe out of his contract now.


How can they do what I bolded????


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> Sweetney was a stupid pick


What? Mike Sweetney was a good pick.


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Lampe can be bought out right away...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> How can they do what I bolded????


With the mid-level exception. Second round picks don't rule under any salary scale.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Lampe can be bought out right away...*



> Originally posted by <b>Genjuro</b>!
> 
> With the mid-level exception. Second round picks don't rule under any salary scale.


I dont know why so many of you believe this. THe mid level exception has no bearing on 2nd round picks. I have pasted this before. This is all the info on what a 2nd round pick can get. http://www3.realgm.com/src_rookiescale.php.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> What? Mike Sweetney was a good pick.


With Nick Collison still on the board, and to an extent Sofoklis and Lampe at the time, the Knicks went with a guy who showed horrible conditioning in his workout, a short PF when they already have Kurt Thomas and 50 others. Their center problem is still unresolved. The only thing that saved him from the Yankee crowd was that he was from Georgetown. If they had decided to go with a PF, even though they already had plenty, not wise to take Sweetney over Collison but we'll see.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

no stroke of genius by the knicks,if they were that hot on lampe they would have taken him 9th.a lot of teams screwed up on this guy but maybe letting him drop to the second was the way to go.all i know is the knicks got themselves a gift,rick sund of the sonics liked him and said he reminded him of a bill laimbeer.add vujanic at some point and the knicks might look like the dallas mavericks out there.are they finally getting their act together there?


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## RangerC (Sep 25, 2002)

You can sign 2nd round picks to whatever sort of contract you want. Manu Ginobili signed for 2 years, 3 million total (way above the minimum). Marko Jaric signed for 4 years, 6-8 million total. It's right in the CBA - no standard for 2nd rounders or undrafted players. Most 2nd rounders have no leverage and play for the minimum because it's their only option - it's either the minimum or nothing. In the case of players like Ginobili, Jaric, and now Lampe, the player is either a big star in Europe and/or needs money to buy out their contract, so they have the leverage - if their team wants them, they have to pay more than the minimum.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RangerC</b>!
> You can sign 2nd round picks to whatever sort of contract you want. Manu Ginobili signed for 2 years, 3 million total (way above the minimum). Marko Jaric signed for 4 years, 6-8 million total. It's right in the CBA - no standard for 2nd rounders or undrafted players. Most 2nd rounders have no leverage and play for the minimum because it's their only option - it's either the minimum or nothing. In the case of players like Ginobili, Jaric, and now Lampe, the player is either a big star in Europe and/or needs money to buy out their contract, so they have the leverage - if their team wants them, they have to pay more than the minimum.


You are confusing 2nd round players from undrafted players here it is right here



> Players chosen in the second round can be signed to a variety of contracts, but almost all of them will be for the rookie minimum salary of $349,458. This means that if the contract is guaranteed for the whole season, the most he can earn is $349,458. The type of contracts can vary greatly. Some of the more common 2nd round contracts are:
> 
> Non-Guaranteed Contract: the player is no longer paid once he is cut. If he is cut before the season starts, he doesn't get paid
> Partially Guaranteed Contract: a small amount is guaranteed so that even if the player is cut before the season starts, he can still walk with some earnings. Any amount above the guaranteed amount has to be earned by remaining on the roster.
> ...


here it is right here what more do you need to see.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RangerC</b>!
> You can sign 2nd round picks to whatever sort of contract you want. Manu Ginobili signed for 2 years, 3 million total (way above the minimum). Marko Jaric signed for 4 years, 6-8 million total. It's right in the CBA - no standard for 2nd rounders or undrafted players. Most 2nd rounders have no leverage and play for the minimum because it's their only option - it's either the minimum or nothing. In the case of players like Ginobili, Jaric, and now Lampe, the player is either a big star in Europe and/or needs money to buy out their contract, so they have the leverage - if their team wants them, they have to pay more than the minimum.


When those guys signed those teams still had they're rights. 2 years had passed which means that each player were RFA's


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## JaeMurda (Mar 28, 2003)

let us not forget people talked alot of crap about dirk when dallas picked him and the dallas caught alot of flack for it but look at dirk now one of the best players in the nba so dont doubt lampe.


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## BillyMadison (Jun 26, 2003)

"That definitely says something about his talent level. 

Then even before the draft(right before on the TV show), a couple of the ESPN guys had Lampe rated in the middle of the 1st, because he was not as athletic or agile as people were led to believe. When he worked out, he was heavy footed as they put it. And he doesn't go inside much. Not athletic enough to play the 3, not tough enough to play the 4.

I dont deny that the contract weighed in a bit on his draft stock. But, it certainly was not the only factor. He was not as good as many people believe. He was not the Top 5 pick thought; He was more of a mid 1st rounder. That is still a steal in the 2nd round, just not quite as big as most think."


IT DEFINATELY, Says very little about his talent level... you think guys who are picked in the second round(I can name plenty of all stars) aren't talented? Some of them turn out to be better then the #1 pick... I.E. Gilbert Arenas and Darius Miles. 


RD... You're telling me Lampe would of fell to 30 WITHOUT the contractual problems?

HAve you ever seen the kid play?

Do you think Darko will be a good player?

Did you ever see Darko play?


If the answer is No, Yes, No... then you are contradicting yourself... lets not forget, Jerry West is not some "automatic" talent adviser... Mind you, West past on the likes of Hilario, Stoudemire, Butler and Wagner all of which at least now, seem to have brighter futures then Drew Gooden... you're telling me, that because he past on them, these guys are no good? Then you are referring to "Experts"... when really, the majority(90%) agree the Lampe was a top 15 player and a steal at #30. Too put it blunt... you know nothing, whether he is agile or heavy footed, you don't know... We'll see in a couple of years. Sure, this guy can be an absolute BUM... but so can LeBron James... my point is, no one knows about these guys... the experts are wrong with players every year... and referring to Bilas. Your arguement has very little basis, and substanence... Bilas has never seen Lampe play live(I will bank on this), Chad FOrd has... sure, like any 18 year old(or most) Lampe has some problems... but these are the same scouts that that put Sam Bowie ahead of Jordan, Danny Ferry at #1...

He is claimed as the #2 European player behind Darko right now by NUMEROUS Eurpean scouts... the ones that actually SCOUT European players(not the Dicky V's and Jay Bilas' of the world) and I think that says enough about his "low talent level". There is a reason you are sitting behind a computer and not scouting... cause, you don't know how these players will develop... neither does 99.9% of the people here.


The thing is, the Knicks got a felony caliber steal with Lampe... even if it was good fortune. I sense some jelousy.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

His slip was not entirely due to the contract situation. Here is a question that I asked myself, and I think every GM probably asked themselves when contemplating Lampe, "How is he any different from Nikoloz Tskitishvili?"

They are pretty much the same guy, and while Skita will be great in the future, a lot of people look at him as a bust right now. It's the same reason DeAngello Collins wasn't taken last year, after Kwame, Curry, and Tyson could barely hold spots on their bench the year before, High School Power Forwards weren't in great demand. Amare of course is a freak.

I think that accounted for Lampe falling out of the lottery, I don't know why some of the late first round GMs passed on him though. Just a stupid move.


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Lampe can be bought out right away...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont know why so many of you believe this. THe mid level exception has no bearing on 2nd round picks. I have pasted this before. This is all the info on what a 2nd round pick can get. http://www3.realgm.com/src_rookiescale.php.


Then please explain to me how Jaric, Ginobili, Okur, Giricek and Rebraka have signed their rookie contracts being all of them second round picks.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BillyMadison</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> RD... You're telling me Lampe would of fell to 30 WITHOUT the contractual problems?



No, I never once said that. Go back over my posts and read them again. I even went out of my way to say that I think Lampe is a steal in the 2nd round. All I said was that he was not a Top 5 prospect like people thought. I think his real value was more in the mid first round range.




> The thing is, the Knicks got a felony caliber steal with Lampe... even if it was good fortune. I sense some jelousy.


Steal? Yes. Biggest of all time? No. He fell, but he didnt fall as far as most think. He fell from the mid first to the 2nd round. That has happened many times before. 

Jealousy? Not quite. I was very wary of Lampe for the reasons I have stated BEFORE the draft. My team got Sofoklis Schortsanitis, a guy who I said way before the draft that I thought would be a steal in the mid first round. I wouldnt trade the drafting of Sofoklis for anyone taken outside the Top 10. In fact, when the 2nd round started, I was happy Lampe was still on the board, because it I was hoping someone would take Lampe before Sofoklis, so Sofoklis would be available to the Clippers. 

I think Lampe and Sofoklis are similar steals in the draft. IMO, both players were mid 1st rounders who fell to the 2nd round.


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## BillyMadison (Jun 26, 2003)

OK... Lampe is a top 15 talent, we agree on that... Whats the big deal with Jerry West then? If Im not mistaken, West passed on Sofoklis not once, but two times aswell... add that in with his 6'8 height(not as tall as people think) and overweight... and it "all fits in together"... The same thing you are saying about Lampe applies to Sofokolis... now, I do not feel Sofoklis was the steal Lampe was for a number of reasons, but thats a different story.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Sofoklis and Lampe were in different situations, according to the media.

Lampe was a Top 5 guy, Sofoklis was a late 1st rounder. Just about every mock right before the draft had him going in the 20's. The highest I ever saw Sofoklis was at 16 to the C's, and one week later he was dropped back into the 20's by the person who did that mock. 

So Jerry West not taking him doesn't really say anything because nobody projected Sofoklis that high. West passing on Lampe does say something because he was suppose to be out of Memphis' range, according to the media.

In reality, not media hype, I think both players were mid/late 1st round talents. Lampe then fell because of some contract problems, and Sofo fell because of 2 reasons from what I've heard: 1) because teams were scared off by because his offensive game was so raw and 2) because he actually wanted to play another year overseas before coming over to play. 

So I think both are similar steals.

As for the comments on Sofoklis - He measured up at 6'10 in shoes. And he was the youngest player in the draft, turning 18 less than a week ago. As for the overweight comment - Far from the truth. Even in the writeups from workouts, the execs from teams raved about his body. They said he is not overweight in the slightest. 

I think both players will have good careers, outplaying where they were drafted. I think Lampe is a good fit with a Sweetney type at PF, because Sweetney can handle the banging, and Lampe can float towards the perimeter.


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## KB21 (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm not going to say that Lampe is not talented. However, Chad Ford is full of crap!! He wants to make you believe that teams passed on Lampe because they weren't familiar with him. That's bunk.

General Managers and their scouts have their jobs for a reason. Every GM in the league has scouting reports and video on every prospect that was available for this draft. Too much time and effort is put into scouting these players to have players slip through due to unfamiliarity. The Atlanta Hawks never worked out Boris Diaw, but their scouts in France followed him all season, and GM Billy Knight went to France to see him play twice.

I believe Lampe fell because there are some things scouts and general managers saw that they didn't like.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> I also commented on what Jay Bilas, along with a couple rumors before the draft said.
> 
> Rumors were that Lampe was not as agile as people were led to believe, as he had problems dunking off of one foot. Whatever reported went as far as saying who do scouts take us for fools because Lampe was so unimpressive at the workout.
> ...



OF COURSE athleticism can and agility can be improved!!! Are you telling me KObe was more agile as a rookie then he is now?? What about Tracy? or even KG??? Once you learn more about the game, you react faster, and hit the spots faster. So even if you dont improve your agility by a ton, you'll still be much quicker than when you entered the league. Just by shedding a few pound a player can do more things athletically, Shaq looked like garbage this playoff year, but if he and hte marine gets thngs done, you dont think his agility and athletic ability will be better than what we saw in 2003?


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Re: Lampe can be bought out right away...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> How can they do what I bolded????


they have cap exceptions for longley, LJ and mcdyess should he remain injured.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>knickstorm</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> OF COURSE athleticism can and agility can be improved!!! Are you telling me KObe was more agile as a rookie then he is now?? What about Tracy? or even KG??? Once you learn more about the game, you react faster, and hit the spots faster. So even if you dont improve your agility by a ton, you'll still be much quicker than when you entered the league. Just by shedding a few pound a player can do more things athletically, Shaq looked like garbage this playoff year, but if he and hte marine gets thngs done, you dont think his agility and athletic ability will be better than what we saw in 2003?


No, you do not improve your athleticism.

Getting smarter and reacting faster has zero to do with athleticism.

Those are things you can learn in the NBA, as you get more experience. It has to do with growing and maturing as a basketball player. But it does not mean you get more athletic. 

Using Shaq as an example is completely ridiculous. Obviously if you are pushing 400lbs, and you shed 50+ you are going to move better. Even a complete, unathletic stiff will be more agile if he sheds weight and gets in better shape. 

But we're not talking about a player like Shaq. We're not talking about some massive man(weight wise) needing to shed weight. We are talking about a combo forward, who actually needs to get bigger(stronger) to play in the NBA. There is no comparison.


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## BillyMadison (Jun 26, 2003)

RD, I'd just stop talking, you are embarrasing yourself and making up double standards to make your case. The fact is, you've never seen Lampe play, you've just heard and read about him... So judging him on athleticism is like Mel Kiper judging figure skaters on their triple axels. Last thing I heard, is that Sofoklis isn't all that great of an athelete himself... Robert "Tractor" Traylor is the comparisons I've heard... Now if those are true, I don't know... nor will I try to spread them until I see him play. 

Heres a clip from EuroBasket.com who has guys that actually WATCH European players. 

Outlook:
Great leaper, great instinct for the offensive rebounds, moves well without the ball, has' n yet a good outside shoot, but has enough soft hands to develop it.

Great Leaper huh? Sounds to me like he is a pretty good athelete.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lampe can be bought out right away...*



> Originally posted by <b>Genjuro</b>!
> 
> Then please explain to me how Jaric, Ginobili, Okur, Giricek and Rebraka have signed their rookie contracts being all of them second round picks.


Obviously you have not read my other post so I dont know what else to tell you. All of these aformentioned players, where signed at least 2 years after they were drafted which means that they can then be signed for whatever the team can afford. Why? Because they are no longer under that "rookie scale". They are RFA's after they're second year. That is why Gilbert Arenas is in the situation he is now.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Lampe can be bought out right away...*



> Originally posted by <b>knickstorm</b>!
> 
> 
> they have cap exceptions for longley, LJ and mcdyess should he remain injured.


Once again what does this have to do with a 2nd round draft picks. Exceptions have no bearing what so ever on a 2nd round draft pick within the first 2 years of them being drafted


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

There are no double standards. If you're too stubborn, or maybe too stupid to realize the difference, that is your deal, not mine.

Personally, I dont care what a Euro scout has to say. A Euro scout knows Euro basketball, which is all well and good. But the NBA is a different game. I'll take an american scout who's seen him opinion over a Euro because the american scout can project him to the NBA, since he is familiar with the NBA.

And in american workouts, Lampe did not display above average athleticism. In fact, it was below average by people's accounts. That is according to the Chicago Tribune from his workouts, and from Jay Bilas, based on his workouts.

Besides, if you want to talk about Euro's views:
"Unselfish player with great agility. "
"Has the smooth moves of a forward"

That's from a Euro's point of view on Sofoklis. And I don't particularly think he is a great athlete either. 

You've heard Tractor Traylor comparisons huh ... That's funny, I've heard Shaq more often than anything. Not that comparisons mean anything anyway. Besides, Sofoklis is already 2" taller than Tractor at 18 years of age. If Taylor were 6'10, with the ability to be 7' in a couple years, he would be a pretty damn good player.


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## cheezdoodle (May 25, 2003)

Those of you who think that Lampe must be signed to a rookie minimum contract (under half a million dollars) are WRONG. 

There is no rookie scale for the second round. Check out what the New York Times had to say today: 

"Of course, the Knicks could choose to pay Lampe more than the rookie minimum, using part of one of the permitted exceptions to the N.B.A. salary cap. But if the Knicks did that, they would have less flexibility to use that money to sign a veteran free agent who could help the team now.

One solution, Kreiter said, is to negotiate a lower buyout with Real Madrid, and he said talks had already begun."


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

The Knicks have an AMERICAN scout over in europe who has watched Lampe play many games and said he will make teams wish they didnt pass on em..

Nobody knows for sure how this kid will be but ill take an american scout who has watched the kid play numerous times over gms and other people who worked thsi kid out once for a half an hour just doing drills that have ntohing to do with playing an actual game and makign an assumption after a half an hour or not what type of game this kid has or if hes garbage or not..


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## Thorgal (Feb 1, 2003)

I've heard the rumors that Knicks *won't* use any part of their exceptions to sign Lampe for bigger deal than 2nd round minimum.

But they'll do buyout his contract this summer - instead of paying 2.2 mln, they'll propose Real Madrid some exhibition games and some cooperations with paying lesser money for the contract.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

its also idiotic to think because the can do no wrong jerry west passed him up that hes no good..

West also passed on amare stoudamire last year does that mean that stoudamire sucks because west didnt draft him?


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Slow down there slick.

It was just something that makes you wonder, and part of a much deeper scheme of things. There were other things I cited to back up the theory that Lampe is not as good as the hype made him out to be.

Time will tell. As I said, I think he was a steal and could be a very good player. I just do not believe he was the Top prospect he was made out to be.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Thorgal</b>!
> I've heard the rumors that Knicks *won't* use any part of their exceptions to sign Lampe for bigger deal than 2nd round minimum.
> 
> But they'll do buyout his contract this summer - instead of paying 2.2 mln, they'll propose Real Madrid some exhibition games and some cooperations with paying lesser money for the contract.


Do you have a link? I will believe this if you have a link. No unsubstantiated rumors please.


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## RyeBread800 (Jun 23, 2003)

*West*

I think somebody is overrating Jerry West's skill as a talent evaluator. I used to be a huge fan of West's, but the past year he has made some moves that have me scratching my head. 

He picked Troy Bell and Dahntay Jones in this years draft. It just seems to me like there were much better choices for the Grizzlies. Jones was a good pick, but they already have J. Williams, so I don't see the need for Bell.

He traded Drew Gooden and Giricek for Mike Miller. Gooden and Giricek are two young players w/ nice futures. While Miller is a good player, he doesn't really fit w/ the Grizz. They have Dickerson coming back from injury, not to mention Shane Battier at the swingman position already.

All this means is that West isn't as good as a talent evaluator as you make him out to be. He's good, no doubt, but you can't judge Lampe's drop all on what Jerry West did or didn't do.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> Slow down there slick.
> 
> . There were other things I cited to back up the theory that Lampe is not as good as the hype made him out to be.


yes except in youre theory youre missing one small ingredient in evalauating him and thats SEEING HIM PLAY..


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## BillyMadison (Jun 26, 2003)

RD---- Sofoklis is 6'8 1/2 at the Chicago workouts... and he is no Shaq... He is called "Baby Shaq" for a reason. Sure his physical stature is impressive, but just because he is on your team, doesn't mean he will be great. Fact is, the Clippers now have what? 5 PF's and this guy just proabbly won't develop with the ownership/GM you have... He will be playing behind Wilcox, Ely and the plethora of big men your team has... Sure, getting him in round 2 was nice... but no one wants to play for the Clips... and he'll be out the door as soon as he becomes a Free Agent, I.E. Brand, Miller, Kandi, Maggette... the list goes on and on. I'm excited to see how the both of these euros pan out, but from what I've heard... Lampe is a better player then Sofoklis at this point, hence he was called the #2 Euro by many players/coaches/European scouts, anything can happen though.

Good Luck this season, Whose going to play PG? Cheerokee Parks? 

Just Kidding.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

am i the only one who thinks the nba draft is becoming too much like the nfl combines where its more about how high a person jumps in a workout then how he actually plays in a game setting?

People like steven hunter a few years ago werent even gonna get drafted but gms were "amazed" by his length and athleticism in workoouts and they ignored the fact he never even averaged double fgiures in college and he was picked mid first round..


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Keith Closs</b>!
> am i the only one who thinks the nba draft is becoming too much like the nfl combines where its more about how high a person jumps in a workout then how he actually plays in a game setting?
> 
> People like steven hunter a few years ago werent even gonna get drafted but gms were "amazed" by his length and athleticism in workoouts and they ignored the fact he never even averaged double fgiures in college and he was picked mid first round..


That's exactly what the draft is now. Everything is about 3-4 years down the line before we can judge a draft. Remember in this business it is what have you done for me lately. So even if a guy does well next year, if he is still the same player 5 years from now while a guy like Kendrick Perkins becomes a star, then we will be saying that guy who was solid for 5 years was avg or a bust. Sucks but that is the nature of the beast.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Billy, Sofoklis is 6'10 with shoes on though. Players are listed at their heights with their shoes on, and they play with shoes on, so that is the relevant number.

I'm not a fan of Sofoklis cuz he's on the Clippers. If you look around a few of the posts here before the draft, I talked about Sofoklis a lot. On other boards that I talk on a lot more, I have talked much more about Sofoklis. He was my favorite player in the draft, along with TJ Ford. I like the attitude that he plays with. 

Who knows where Sofoklis will fit in with the Clippers. He is 6'10 with a 7'4 wingspan at 18 years old. In his Knicks workout, they said that he does not have a weight problem, but that he still has baby fat on him. That is a sign that he isn't done fully physically maturing. He could conceivably grown even more in the next couple years. Even at his height now iwth that wingspan, I think he could play some center in the league. He might develop into strictly a C if he does grow some more.

The good thing about Sofoklis is that he is going to be staying overseas next year. That gives him a chance to develop and actually get playing time.

The Clippers only have Brand, Kaman, Wilcox, Ely, and ZhiZhi now at the big man positions. Very solid depth. ZhiZhi is only signed for one more year I believe, and it wouldnt surprise me to see Wilcox shipped out in the next year. So there could very well be room for Sofoklis in the future. Things will play out over the next year or so and we'll see how he does fit in with the team. Nonetheless, I loved his potential before the draft, and was ecstatic the Clippers drafted him.


You are right when you say I have not seen these guys play. I have seen clips, but Im not judging my opinion of these guys from those clips. My belief is coming from reading a great deal about the players for the past couple months(Ive been hearing about Sofoklis for a couple years now, back to the old draftnet board). I've read the rumors from workouts and read the scouting reports. When you read things from various sources, you do kind of get a feel for what a player can do and what he can't do. That doesnt mean he'll succeed or flop in the league, but it does give you some sort of feel for a player.


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## 7M3 (Aug 5, 2002)

*I don't know how GOOD of a player he will be...*

... but I do know what KIND of player he will be. He's probably not a power forward, and he's CERTAINLY not a small forward, Lampe's natural position is at the 5. He's got a weird frame; a short, stout torso, with extremely long arms and legs. I would describe him as plodding, and he certainly isn't an "explosive leaper." He was portrayed by the media and various draft "outlets" as agile and quick, and Dirk comparison's we're being made. I have no idea who gave them their respective scouting reports, but Lampe and Dirk couldn't be more different.

Now that I've finished wailling on him, I can tell Knick fans that they might have themselves a player. He just turned 18 and, at 7'0 250, has great size. His ball-handling and shooting skills are strong but, like I said, he dosen't have near the quickness or agility to get himself a shot on the perimeter. If New York plops him behind the 3-point line, and lets someone else get him a shot, they have someone who can consistantly knock em' down. He should be able to shoot over most Eastern Confernece centers and he's noticably strong at sealing his defender in front, and catching the ball right at the hoop.

If I had to compare him to someone, I would probably say a bigger Keith Van Horn, with even less agility. Both of these players have strong skill sets, but don't move well enough to utilize them.

I would say that he has the potential to be 15+ PPG scorer and, at the center position, that is excellent.


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## BillyMadison (Jun 26, 2003)

Have you even seen him play? or are you reading like everyone else? Lets see the guy play before we say "He and Dirk are so different". I guarentee, no one here has seen the guy play in one game. Why? His games are not televised.

I think comparing him to Dirk is unfair, as Dirk is his own breed and one of a kind, and a phenominal player.

From what I've read(yes I read like everyone else on these Euros, he is not a Center... and doesn't have the mentality to develop into one).


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## RyeBread800 (Jun 23, 2003)

7M3

Nice post, but it doesn't matter if Lampe has a weird frame. You sound like all the new young scouts in the NBA in that they say that you must have the perfect NBA body. I'm sorry but it's how you play the game. Are you telling me Larry Bird had a great NBA body?

You don't become the top player in the top Spaniard league by not knowing the game and being a player. I think we just need to wait and actully watch him play before we judge, because I doubt a lot of people around here have seen him play on a consistent basis.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Lampe can be bought out right away...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont know why so many of you believe this. THe mid level exception has no bearing on 2nd round picks. I have pasted this before. This is all the info on what a 2nd round pick can get. http://www3.realgm.com/src_rookiescale.php.


what people are trying to say is the money from this exception could go towards paying for Lampe's buyout and salary


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## 7M3 (Aug 5, 2002)

Yes, I have seen him play.


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## LawBoy69 (Jun 29, 2003)

*Lampe and the MLE*

I think the correlation between Lampe and the MLE is as follows: 2nd round picks can be signed to a contract of any value as long as it is at least the minimum. If a team is under the salary cap, it could conceivably sign the 2nd rounder to a contract with a total value worth more than any 1st rounder. However, because the Knicks are over the cap, the only money they have to play with other than the NBA minimum is the MLE which can be split between players. It sounds like the Knicks are basically contemplating using about 1/2 the MLE to sign Lampe. Good deal for the Knicks, as it seems questionable to me what Free Agent would take the whole MLE and make the Knicks appreciably better. Just my 2 cents.


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Lampe and the MLE*



> Originally posted by <b>LawBoy69</b>!
> I think the correlation between Lampe and the MLE is as follows: 2nd round picks can be signed to a contract of any value as long as it is at least the minimum. If a team is under the salary cap, it could conceivably sign the 2nd rounder to a contract with a total value worth more than any 1st rounder. However, because the Knicks are over the cap, the only money they have to play with other than the NBA minimum is the MLE which can be split between players. It sounds like the Knicks are basically contemplating using about 1/2 the MLE to sign Lampe. Good deal for the Knicks, as it seems questionable to me what Free Agent would take the whole MLE and make the Knicks appreciably better. Just my 2 cents.



Just my take on the situation, LawBoy and RangerC hit it right on the head with the contract situation. You have to sign a 2nd rd toat LEAST the minimum, the minimum is NOT the MAXIMUM a team is allowed to spend on a 2nd rounder. Things now make a little sense to me with Milos Vujanic playing another year in Europe for $4 milliion. If the Knicks would have used the exemption as an enticement to bring him here, we wouldn't be talking about Lampe's contract because the Knicks would have nothing except the 2nd minimum to give him. All those people worried about Lampe's skill level will hopefully get the chance to see him in a bout 2 weeks in Boston's Summer League Classic. I'll think I just might try to go to Beantown for the first time in my life...


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Lampe and the MLE*



> Originally posted by <b>Tapseer</b>!
> 
> Things now make a little sense to me with Milos Vujanic playing another year in Europe for $4 milliion. If the Knicks would have used the exemption as an enticement to bring him here, we wouldn't be talking about Lampe's contract because the Knicks would have nothing except the 2nd minimum to give him.


You are wrong. On the contrary, if the Knicks had used the mid-level to sign Vujanic, the would not have spent the entire exception. A couple of millions would have been enough to get him. So Lampe would get the rest of it. Maybe this is what the Knicks should do the next year.


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## aj_lakers (May 18, 2003)

RyeBread800

Just so you know, Lampe played for the feeder team of real madrid - essentially a minor league development team. He will be good but he was not the best player in the spanish league last season. Best prospect perhaps, but not best player.


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## RyeBread800 (Jun 23, 2003)

AJ_Lakers

Huh, I thought I read somewhere otherwise. I'm probably wrong though. Does anyone know these exact team and league that Lampe played for, or any stats for him? I'm kinda curious.


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## Sofo2NY (Jun 1, 2003)

Teams in the late first round did not pick Lampe because it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get him over in atleast 3+ years. Since hes a second rounder, the Knicks can use the MLE to pay him for 3+ years so he can buy his contract out immediately. 

Lampe dropped because of false information by FIBA and the lack of workouts he had with the non lottery teams. Also, it doesn't help when many teams promise other players.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RyeBread800</b>!
> AJ_Lakers
> 
> Huh, I thought I read somewhere otherwise. I'm probably wrong though. Does anyone know these exact team and league that Lampe played for, or any stats for him? I'm kinda curious.


Lampe didnt dominate the top spaniard league, he dominted the Top Spanish Minor League


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Lampe and the MLE*



> Originally posted by <b>Genjuro</b>!
> 
> You are wrong. On the contrary, if the Knicks had used the mid-level to sign Vujanic, the would not have spent the entire exception. A couple of millions would have been enough to get him. So Lampe would get the rest of it. Maybe this is what the Knicks should do the next year.


We don't know if the Knicks offered Milos the exemption or what portion of the exemption was offered o him. What we do know is that Milos is overseas making $4 million this coming year. The Knicks still have their full exemption which is $4.9 mil. this year. I just finished reading somewhere that the Knicks are not finished and are thinking about Minnesota big man Nestorovic. I don't know how that affect Lampe's situation, or was it just some reporter filling space.


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Lampe and the MLE*



> Originally posted by <b>Tapseer</b>!
> 
> 
> We don't know if the Knicks offered Milos the exemption or what portion of the exemption was offered o him. What we do know is that Milos is overseas making $4 million this coming year. The Knicks still have their full exemption which is $4.9 mil. this year. I just finished reading somewhere that the Knicks are not finished and are thinking about Minnesota big man Nestorovic. I don't know how that affect Lampe's situation, or was it just some reporter filling space.


Now I see what you mean. The problem is that you have misunderstood the information about Vujanic contract in Italy. He will make $4 mil. in 3 years, what is $1,33 each year. There is not any single player in Europe earning $4 mil. a year or anything close.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: Lampe can be bought out right away...*



> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL....you must be kidding, so because Jerry West didn't take him, he sucks?

By that logic, Wacktay Jones is a all-star in the making because Jones drafted him...


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

What's funny is you only quoting part of my post. Why not include the whole thing? Because there are other factors there to back up my post. I used reports from professional analysts, and then brought up the question to think about with West. 

Learn to read the whole thing, then comment.


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