# Who is better? Pierce or Carter?



## mcgreedy (Oct 6, 2003)

Pierce is good, but VC at his highest leve is better.
Look at his game since he has been in the US team.

VC ALL THE WAY:yes:


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## Charlie Brown (Oct 22, 2002)

Pierce hands down.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

VINCE. When he is at his best, there is no human being on the planet that can stop him. Just look what he did in the 3rd quarter today against the Pistons.


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## Charlie Brown (Oct 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mysterio</b>!
> When he is at his best, there is no human being on the planet that can stop him.


When you have to add "When he is at his best" to the statement "no human being on the planet can stop him", it usually means that the player has a history of stopping himself.

IMO Carter is more entertaining, ala Dominque Wilkins, but Pierce is a better player.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PSUmtj112</b>!
> 
> 
> When you have to add "When he is at his best" to the statement "no human being on the planet can stop him", it usually means that the player has a history of stopping himself.
> ...


Point is well taken. Vince will have to prove himself this season and he will. He has matured and gotten over the injury bug. This season, when he will be at his best, there will be no question as to who is better.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Vince is more talented, I'd rather have Pierce.


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## MVPlaya (Oct 12, 2003)

I dislike Pierce and I believe that Carter has more to prove has more of all around game. When Vince goes to the hole its over.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

wow, what a dumb comparison. Carter is clearly better... nobody can stop him when he's 100 % healthy and 100 % focused into the game. And he's proven many times he's unstoppable. carter has all the tools pierce has while pierce doesn't have some tools carter has. and carter is easily a top 5 player when fully healthy while pierce will always be top 15. i might sound like a carter worshiper but i'm not.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

did you guys see what he did tonight? damn vince took over the game.. holla


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## aboveallodds24 (Sep 22, 2003)

as much as i HATE to say it i would take pierce over vincsanity strickly because pierce is a durable player... vince when healthy is better but i would take pierce.... sorry vince... much love


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Vince is better. Paul Pierce has been healthier. Vince outscored the detroit team in the 3rd quarter tonight. Every indication this summer and preseason seems to be that....I think Vince is back folks. The east just got even harder to predict.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Obviously, I'm biased, but....*

Pierce is mo' clutch, and a better all-around player. Vince, when he gets hot, is more unstoppable, but Paul is a better defender, better rebounder, better passer, and a damn good scorer as well. In the 4th quarter, nobody is better than Pierce.

The Truth hurts sometimes. Deal with it.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

I actually respect Paul Pierce after witnessing him step up to the plate during playoffs, especially 4th quarters.

Vince is more exciting and definitely more explosive scorer. But Pierce does a lot of damage during the time when it counts. He's more stable mentally imo, just put a better team around him and he can be a legit MVP candidate night in and night out.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

Both are great players but overall Pierce is better!


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Vince by a mile.

1) Jim Obrien made Pierce into a star. What did Pierce do when Jim wasnt the coach?~?~ He allowed Pierce to shoot the 3s when he wants, isolate him in the highpost which he gets the most there since he doesnt have the ball handling like some other guys have in Carter, Kobe, Ivy, and Tmac.

2) Vince on the other hand can be a distributor in the middle of the floor, he is more verstaile than Pierce. His dribbling looks weired but he is underated. I meant Jordan doesnt have the ball handling skills some fans thought him to have. 

3) Pierce is smarter than Vince but Vince will get better in the understanding since KO will teach him something this year. Carter weaknesses is probably his midrange game but watch he will be a better player once his physical ability starts to come down.. He is the less skilled player in the elite groups but is the most dominating guard interms of drawing attention for the team.


Vince much better than Pierce!


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

Pierce is a more complete player than Vince ever was even when Vince was healthy. He is a better defender and can do more things offensively. But Vince's athleticism before he got injured was in a whole other dimension and at times it made him seem unstoppable on offense. When healthy Vince was a more consistent offensive producer than Pierce but when it comes down to it I would pick Pierce for my team. Why? As I mentioned he is more complete and twice the defender Vince ever was. Hopefully Vince will be able to return to the level he once played. He was once terribly overrated but I miss that excitment that Vince brought to every game.:yes:


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*ha*

This is ridiculous


Pierce HANDS DOWN. Vince hasnt had a season like Pierce yet. 


Vince isnt as good shooter, defender, rebounder, scorer, and passer. 


This is ludacris.


the TRUTH hurts sometimes. deal with it.

(whats up Truth34) haha

peace


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> Pierce is a more complete player than Vince ever was even when Vince was healthy.


their stats are identical. but if you wanna get specific, vince is a better shooter, free throws are equal.
pierce gets .5 assists more than vince on average, but 1+ more TOs. pierce gets <.5 more steals a game, but vince gets about the same amount more blocks. 

it comes down to preference, & i'll choose vince in a second, but there's no way you can seriously say pierce is a more complete player than vince EVER was, at times maybe but that can be said for any player.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> wow, what a dumb comparison. Carter is clearly better... nobody can stop him when he's 100 % healthy and 100 % focused into the game. And he's proven many times he's unstoppable. carter has all the tools pierce has while pierce doesn't have some tools carter has. and carter is easily a top 5 player when fully healthy while pierce will always be top 15. i might sound like a carter worshiper but i'm not.





> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>
> Obviously, Vince Carter. He's going to play all 82 games this season and average 30, 7, 6, 2, 1.5.... I'm serious.





> oh gosh. i'm shocked because no one mentioned vince. he's definitely capable of putting Jordan-type numbers. he hasn't yet, but he will this season. just watch him prove all of you wrong.


You said that on the "Who is this years MVP" thread.... Not a carter worshiper my ***....

Anyways....

Paul Pierce is just as unstopable and he will keep driving the lane after he gets knocked down a couple times... Carter will not take that abuse, he won't drive after he gets roughed up. Pierce plays through injuries, Carter should be a 6th man as much as he likes to be on the sidelines...


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## double3peat (Aug 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> wow, what a dumb comparison. Carter is clearly better... nobody can stop him when he's 100 % healthy and 100 % focused into the game. And he's proven many times he's unstoppable. carter has all the tools pierce has while pierce doesn't have some tools carter has. and carter is easily a top 5 player when fully healthy while pierce will always be top 15. i might sound like a carter worshiper but i'm not.


So out of KG, Shaq, TD, Kobe, and Tmac, who does VC surpass to make top 5?

As far as Pierce go a healthy Carter is better, but until he proves hes gonna stay healthy, I'll take Pierce


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

> Pierce HANDS DOWN. Vince hasnt had a season like Pierce yet.


Depends what you mean by that, but here's a quick line of what I consider to be both of their best years.

VC 27.6 pts 3.9 a 5.5 rbs 1.52 st 1.09 blks 2.3 tos fg%.460 3fg% .408 

PP 25.9,4.4, 7.3, 1.76, 0.78, 3.64, 0.416, 0.302 

A better shooter Pierce is not, nor is his best season any better than VC's. Overall, their numbers are almost exactly the same. Pierce has done more lately, so VC is behind him right now, but it's a good debate.


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## double3peat (Aug 18, 2003)

> Pierce HANDS DOWN. Vince hasnt had a season like Pierce yet.
> 
> 
> Vince isnt as good shooter, defender, rebounder, scorer, and passer.


Hmm Vince isnt a good shooter
Carter Vs. Pierce
3PFG%: 38.7 vs 36.8
FG%: 45.4 vs. 43.8
FT%: 78.2 vs. 78.2
PPG: 25.7 vs. 25.6

So I guess Carter's better perentages in each category and higher career PPG make him a worse shooter?

Sorta like Pierce's 3.3 career APG against Carter's 3.7 make him the cleaerly better passer?

And I'm guessing Pierce's best season at
25.9 PPG 7.3 RPG 4.4 APG 1.76 SPG .78 BPG and 3.65 TOPG
is just years better then Carter's
27.6 PPG 5.6 RPG 3.9 APG 1.52 SPG 1.09 SPG and 2.23 TOPG...


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

If VC is healthy hes definitely the better player!!!:yes:


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> If VC is healthy hes definitely the better player!!!:yes:


Thats a big IF.

So *IF* I'm a team owner I take Paul Pierce because he'll probably play more games for me and earn his check.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats a big IF.
> ...












I agree 100%. I don't like it when people say "if" because we don't live in an "if" world. The fact is that Vince has had some durability issues lately and I can't give him the benefit of the doubt. Until I can see him play a full season without missing games due to injuries, to me, he is about as durable as Antonio McDyess. Vince needs to prove that he can stay healthy before I put him over a player as valuable and as durable as Paul Pierce.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

I'd take Pierce over Carter.

Does Carter, aside from his spectacular weak side block once a month, even know what defense means?


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OG</b>!
> 
> 
> their stats are identical. but if you wanna get specific, vince is a better shooter, free throws are equal.
> ...


Pierce is. By complete I mean offense/defense...not Magic complete. I consider that to be diversified not neccessarily complete. I have watched Vince since his rookie year and before he was injured as exciting as he was he was no where near as complete as Pierce. Pierce is a better defender, equally as good of a scorer though Vince was more efficient but not by much. But if you want to look at stats, Pierce gets to the line more and besides for last season's FGP drop shot 3s as good as Vince and made more. Also he grabs more rebounds and gets more steals and equally as much blocks.

http://basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=PIERCPA01

http://basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CARTEVI01

However, when I say more complete I mean offense/defense not completeness in stats like a Grant Hill. Therefore, Pierce is more complete along those lines not overwhelmingly but enough so that it can be said.


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> Pierce is. By complete I mean offense/defense...not Magic complete. I consider that to be diversified not neccessarily complete. I have watched Vince since his rookie year and before he was injured as exciting as he was he was no where near as complete as Pierce. Pierce is a better defender, equally as good of a scorer though Vince was more efficient but not by much. But if you want to look at stats, Pierce gets to the line more and besides for last season's FGP drop shot 3s as good as Vince and made more. Also he grabs more rebounds and gets more steals and equally as much blocks.
> ...



i see what you're saying now.. but i still choose vince, maybe cus i haven't seen much of pierce, don't get many celtics games here..


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> I'd take Pierce over Carter.
> 
> Does Carter, aside from his spectacular weak side block once a month, even know what defense means?


Defense? that sounds like hard work... like staying healthy is hard work. Carter is going to stay away from hard work as much as possable.

I've read an article that the coaching staff at UNC spoke higher of Jamison than Carter just because of Jamison's work ethic and Carter's lack there of.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Hmm.... in an adolescent highlight-reel fantasy world, Vince Carter is better, but if we're talking the real world, where toughness and hard work count for a lot, I would take Paul Pierce. Paul Pierce is one of the most reliable and fierce competitors, and one of the toughest players, in the league today.


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> 
> Defense? that sounds like hard work... like staying healthy is hard work. Carter is going to stay away from hard work as much as possable.
> ...


did u catch the recent article how carter took the entire summer off (after the qualifying tourn.) 
he doesn't like to work out, what he has is pretty much his natural talent, & if that plan doesn't work out this year, he'll take a different approach. (last after 5 games it looked like he'd played the whole season already).
he did that to let his body heal. 
lets hope it worked and he won't be experiencing any more technical difficulties, air canada is ready for take off!


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Pierce is better than Carter.

I am biased but it is the Truth.

Carter is the greatest dunker I have ever seen but Pierce is an all around great player and he is much more durable than Vince.

This is a big year for Vince. We'll see at the end who is better.


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## mcgreedy (Oct 6, 2003)

Carter's play in team USA showed that he has greatly improved his defense. Not only that, Kevin O'neil also said his was impressed by Vince's defense. 

We know VC can score, any time against anyone. If his defense has improved, than the next topic will be VC vs T-Mac not Peirce.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mcgreedy</b>!
> Carter's play in team USA showed that he has greatly improved his defense. Not only that, Kevin O'neil also said his was impressed by Vince's defense.
> 
> We know VC can score, any time against anyone. If his defense has improved, than the next topic will be VC vs T-Mac not Peirce.


While I can't judge the team USA game that I didn't watch, OF COURSE KEVIN O'NEAL IS GOING TO SAY THAT!

"At a recent press conference, Kevin O'Neal stated 'Vince Carter sucks, and hasn't learned to play defense. Honestly, how the **** did the guy get in the NBA?'"


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> "At a recent press conference, Kevin O'Neal stated 'Vince Carter sucks, and hasn't learned to play defense. Honestly, how the **** did the guy get in the NBA?'"



hey i read that article too!!! i couldn't believe he said that!


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> I'd take Pierce over Carter.
> 
> Does Carter, aside from his spectacular weak side block once a month, even know what defense means?


Wow, you hate Vince way more than ThE MaGiC hates him, literally. 
I just can't wait for him to prove the media and especially you VC's big time haters that he's one of the best defensive players. just because he kind of slacked off on defense in past seasons, doesn't mean he'll do it this season. Oh yeah, and I just know he'll be a top candidate for MVP or hopefully be the MVP where Pierce has potential to be an MVP but i doubt he'll ever be one.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

This debate is weird, because I've always sort of considered the Celtics and Raps to be on the same path, just 1 year removed. 

2001 - Raps vs. Sixers - great series, VC on top of the world.
2002 - Celtics vs. Nets - great series, PP on top of the world
2002- Raps struggle after VC goes out with injury
2003- Celtics struggle a little and look like they need a few pieces to contend

Who knows, PP is more durable for the time being, but two years ago this debate would have been about as valid as asking who's better PP or Antoine Walker.

Both are great players. VC is the better athlete and pure shooter 
Pierce is the more durable and better at getting to the line.


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## Kid_kanada (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> 
> I am biased but it is the Truth.



If it was the truth you won't have to be bias, because it wouldn't require your prejudice in your decision.


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## dabullz2004 (Oct 13, 2003)

*No Competition*

There is no competition. Pierce no doubt is better than vc. VC is more injury proned. Pierce had a better season.

:yes: :yes: :yes:


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kid_kanada</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> If it was the truth you won't have to be bias, because it wouldn't require your prejudice in your decision.


What the [edit] are you saying??


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OG</b>!
> 
> 
> did u catch the recent article how carter took the entire summer off (after the qualifying tourn.)
> ...


Thats BS.... He could be MVP, injury free, and we could be saying Kobe and Tmac don't have jack on him if he would put some effort into improving game/body. Sure he has some mad hops and he's fast... but theres always room for improvement. To me that gives me the impression he isn't a winner. He can actually stand to loose games. The greats in any sport just couldn't stand to loose anything be it poker, golf, checkers, etc... IMO He's good but he'll never be the best with out some hard work. No ifs ands or buts about it. It worked for Kobe and loads of others why wouldn't a lazy Carter try it?

For millions of dollars he should be trying to be the best he can be... I wouldn't want him on my team if he had this attitude.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow, you hate Vince way more than ThE MaGiC hates him, literally.
> I just can't wait for him to prove the media and especially you VC's big time haters that he's one of the best defensive players. just because he kind of slacked off on defense in past seasons, doesn't mean he'll do it this season. Oh yeah, and I just know he'll be a top candidate for MVP or hopefully be the MVP where Pierce has potential to be an MVP but i doubt he'll ever be one.


For the record, I don't "hate" anyone other than
A) Antoine Walker - lazy, fat, worthless
B) Reggie Miller - Being a Knicks fan
C) Scott Layden - See above

Most of the time my opinions, no matter how off they really are against the norm, are to generate discussion.

With that said, I've also liked Vince Carter a lot. Ever since he was just a little unknown at UNC, just some dunker from Florida. But I'm really getting tired of everyone riding his jock around here. Vince does not improve any more than game experience allows, i.e. does not add strength, or new aspects to his game. He is complacent with being very good, not great. 

Vince Carter won't be the MVP this season, simply because he won't be able to lead his team anywhere. There's nobody to play with him on that team, and it won't float in the NBA anymore. Back when Carter was dominant, those playoff years, you could run iso plays and score 55 points on a given night, because your team could just run plays through you.

Let's say the Raptors get to the ECF versus Detroit, just for arguments sakes. They go box and one on Carter, and every time Carter drives he meets a packed zone, and ends up taking a pull-up or fadeaway jumper with two hands in his face from 15-17 feet. He's gonna get his 20 points on the night, no doubt, but what do you think his FG% will be? I'd bet it hovers somewhere in the high 30's in that case. 

Get someone long like Tayshaun Prince guarding him, have Ben Wallace coming weakside? Forget it. I don't buy that the Raptors could win that series.

This is not the same NBA where athleticism can with you everything. Now smarter players, Garnett, Duncan, Kidd, McGrady, Shaq, Bryant (well, on the court), Webber, Dirk, Iverson, Pierce, are playing better because you have to be craftier to score now, you can't rely on simple God-given talent. Vince has all of the God-given talent, but none of the evolution. Part of it comes from being out with the knee injuries, part of it has to do with his complacency. 

Will Vince be an All-Star? No doubt. The fans will vote a superstar dunker like Carter until they're blue in the face. He will probably be an MVP candidate for the same reason, the guys who vote that can't see Toronto games and just see him and his statline on SportsCenter.

I don't hate Vince Carter. But I like him a little less every year I see the SAME player step on the court. Michael added midrange, Kobe added strength, McGrady added a more team mind-set. Kidd found the perfect match in NJ's fun-and-gun, Webber and Duncan have themselves perfect supporting casts. Dirk and Garnett have added uberversatility since they entered the league, morphing the forward positions together. Iverson and Pierce added the toughest mindsets in the league, the fearlessness that gets them to the line more often than almost anyone else. Shaq and Kobe have learned to play as teammates, not just looking out for number one.

What has Vince Carter added to his game to make himself better? In my opinion, he's gotten better at the things he was always good at, and left the rest for however they were. That's not the path to superstardom in the NBA.

But that's just my opinion.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> For the record, I don't "hate" anyone other than
> ...


Nice rant there. It maybe your opinion but theres some truth through out. :yes:


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Vince has a lot to prove this year if u're gonna mention him in the same lines as a top 10 player like Paul Pierce. This guy has proven over the years that he's a more complete scorer, much better defender, passer, rebounder, tougher and definitely more clutch. VC has to win back the people's trust by having a great season this year. No piggy rides by saying "he did this and that in 2000". And i don't really care abt how high he jumped in puerto rico or what he has done in the preseason. This premature "I think VC is back" talk has gotten very lame. Its time he actually starts doing something on the court. I wanna see him play 75+ games, average somewhere close to 25, 5, 5, play D, lead his team to the playoffs and show that he's not the soft [edit] we've seen over the past 2 years.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> i might sound like a carter worshiper but i'm not.


Yes you are. You really, REALLY, are. Anyone who says Vince will get 31/7/6 next season is beyond Carter worshiper mode. Maybe he'll get that in NBA 2k4, not in real life.

Anyway to answer the question Vince is better.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

I think pierce is better, because he is more apt to involve his team and really is committed to improving himself as a player. Though he can't take over a game like Vince can, he does know how to use the people around him a lot better.

He also has better shooting range than Vince, though of course nowhere near the atheltic ability, he does in my opnion know how to defend better too.



Interesting thread, you should do a who is better between Finely and Pierce I'd be interested to see who people thought was better. 

Then yell at them if they disagreed with me :soapbox:


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

the only thing i can remember vince ever trying to improve on was his free throw shooting. after the olympics he had his lil friendly rivalry going with ray allen, came out the next year & shot better from the line, but that only seemed to last that year - still no where near as well as ray ray


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OG</b>!
> the only thing i can remember vince ever trying to improve on was his free throw shooting. after the olympics he had his lil friendly rivalry going with ray allen, came out the next year & shot better from the line, but that only seemed to last that year - still no where near as well as ray ray


Skill wise Ray Allen is amazing... It would take tooo much work for Carter to have some skills like that. IMO


So any of you guys realize at this rate Carter will be nothing more than a has been once he's about 30? Relying only on athletic ability usually makes for a short career... once you loose a step you have a damn thing on half the leauge.


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> ....So any of you guys realize at this rate Carter will be nothing more than a has been once he's about 30? ....


i'm not sayin that yet.. he's still got this year to change - maybe.. if he does well, great.. but i guess that means he still won't bother working on his game in the offseason.
he says if taking the summer off doesn't improve his game (or bring it back to how it was) this season, he'll try working out next summer..
so in a sense he should give him 2 more years to prove himself, but i wouldn't wanna do that..
he's got this year to show who he really is, AND work out next summer regardless and continue to stay on top of his game..
but really, if he blows this season, that's it... i think your comment about being a has been by 30 is right.. let's hope he isn't tho. he's too fun to watch.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OG</b>!
> 
> 
> i'm not sayin that yet.. he's still got this year to change - maybe.. if he does well, great.. but i guess that means he still won't bother working on his game in the offseason.
> ...


It still makes me sick to know that he's too lazy to be the best in the game :upset: 

If god gave me that much natural talent I would make ball my life... I'd play more ball then Tim Duncan. I'd have to be known as THE Gym Rat. Any year I wasn't MVP or not in the finals just means that much more work in the offseason. I don't even see how practicing basketball can even be a difficult thing to do... I wish I was still in highschool and able to play daily..


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## Schottsie (Jun 25, 2003)

I bet that every GM in the NBA other than Toronto would take Pierce over Carter - 

TMac, Kobe, Pierce and Iverson are in a class above Carter. If something happened this summer to make that change, I didn't get the memo.


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> 
> It still makes me sick to know that he's too lazy to be the best in the game :upset:
> ...


seems like basketball is work to carter.. he prefers to sit around playing video games..

it's just disgusting, he's such a great player.. it really makes me sad.. nuthin we can do i guess..


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OG</b>!
> 
> 
> seems like basketball is work to carter.. he prefers to sit around playing video games..
> ...



Pierce is better, and I don't think any GM in the NBA would take Vince over Pierce.


Some good points being made here about Carter's work ethic, and love for the game. I will tell you this though, Vince does have the ability to be a huge force in this game. The problem is that he doesnt want to maximize his game/potential.

He is an amazing athlete, nice wingspan, big hands, great leaper.
He also has a steady stroke, and a decent handle. His fear of attacking the basket has drove me nuts over the years.

The problem is that Vince just has fun and does his thing. 
He doesnt go over game film, study notes, work on small things etc, like Kobe, KG, Pierce etc do on a regular basis. He goes through the motions. He has NO killer drive, desire to destroy.

Vince toyed with me a few years ago, I thought he was going to be the next great thing, he showed some flashes, but the flashes were always missing something. Eventually we learned about his lack of leadership and poor work ethic. Not to mention, he appears to be softer than pudding. 

Lets just hope he can get some sort of wake up call. He should be much more serious with his career. You only have 1 shot. Why not make it a full effort?


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Schottsie</b>!
> I bet that every GM in the NBA other than Toronto would take Pierce over Carter -
> 
> TMac, Kobe, Pierce and Iverson are in a class above Carter. If something happened this summer to make that change, I didn't get the memo.


Damn, if last season was the 2000-2001 season instead of the 2002-2003 season, you would be saying positive things about carter.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Vince has been working out all summer and playing ball. He's been working with a personal trainer too, unlike previous seasons. All this talk about his work ethic was true before, but not after this off-season. Please know what some of you are talking about before you say his work ethic is disgusting and he's too lazy.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

seriously, you guys don't know anything about vince carter. no will to win, improve? you gotta be kidding me. when he came in just a couple of years ago he was a dunking machine but in a very short span he became one of the most dangerous shooters in the nba. didn't work hard this offseason? he lead the american team in FG% as a shooting guard for crying out loud. he has fully rehabbed his knees (and that takes a lot of work). his coach is raving about his work ethic in practice and never even knew that vince was as talented and athletic as he has shown. i know the season hasn't started so people are still hung up on vince's disappointing season last year but give the guy a shot here for crying out loud. vince wants to win and succeed as much as anyone. he has an amazing love for the game. he DOES make his teammates better. he does improve his game on a constant basis. i'll also say that he will have an improved defensive showing this year, probably one of the best in this elite category. 

and what's with the hate that comes from not being "as good as MJ"? ray allen doesn't take this kind of heat, neither does paul pierce. people need to chill out and just enjoy vince's game. it really is the most spectacular in the nba. just wait.


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## LakerMania (Aug 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Damn, *if * last season was the 2000-2001 season instead of the 2002-2003 season, you would be saying positive things about carter.


Man those Raptors fans are in love with that word "if". :laugh:


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Pierce he can just takeover in the 4th and do what ever he wants to do he is one of the best scorers in the league if not the best scorer in the nba. He dosen't look like he is going to be able to score on his man but he just does some how.


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## bujabra (Jun 14, 2003)

if Carter... averages 25.9 PPG

if Carter...grabs 7.3 RPG

if Carter...dishs 4.4 APG

if Carter...steals 1.76 STL

If he amasses the stats mentioned above, then we can start discussing this issue!

*note: the stats above are the averages of Paul Pierce after the 02-03 season*


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

IF Paul Pierce ever averages 27.6 ppg then we can start discussing this issue.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> IF Paul Pierce ever averages 27.6 ppg then we can start discussing this issue.


I'm sorry, I didn't realize that a point and a half could make or break a basketball player.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Pierce is mo' clutch, and a better all-around player. Vince, when he gets hot, is more unstoppable, but Paul is a better defender, better rebounder, better passer, and a damn good scorer as well. In the 4th quarter, nobody is better than Pierce.
> 
> The Truth hurts sometimes. Deal with it.





> Originally posted by <b>1 Penny</b>!
> I actually respect Paul Pierce after witnessing him step up to the plate during playoffs, especially 4th quarters.
> 
> Vince is more exciting and definitely more explosive scorer. But Pierce does a lot of damage during the time when it counts. He's more stable mentally imo, just put a better team around him and he can be a legit MVP candidate night in and night out.


I agree with these 2 views. Even though I hate the Celtics I would give it to them, Pierce is the better overall player besides health. Carter is more entertaining, but entertaining doesn't win games.



> Originally posted by <b>Schottsie</b>!
> I bet that every GM in the NBA other than Toronto would take Pierce over Carter -
> 
> TMac, Kobe, Pierce and Iverson are in a class above Carter. If something happened this summer to make that change, I didn't get the memo.


I'd agree with this, but I might be in the small minority that picks Carter over AI. I think there aren't too many players more intense then AI, but from that grouping he also brings drama and distractions which I won't want on my team. He is also undersized and has to be complimented with a larger PG such as Snow, as seen by his greater later success. And of course depending on Carter's health.

But that is just my thoughts.



> Originally posted by <b>bujabra</b>!
> if Carter... averages 25.9 PPG
> 
> if Carter...grabs 7.3 RPG
> ...





> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> IF Paul Pierce ever averages 27.6 ppg then we can start discussing this issue.


If Walker wasn't air balling so many freak'n shots and 3s, Pierce could accomplish that.

-Petey


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## bujabra (Jun 14, 2003)

Maybe the only way we're going to realize who is better is if we switch their teams! Pierce in Toronto, Carter in Boston....now tell me this, if carter was in boston last year during the playoffs against the Pacers, would they have survived, would he have gone berserk during the 4th quarter and save the Celtics from defeat!

And if Pierce was in Toronto, would the Raptors be the team they r right now? Pierce would never let the Raptors settle for defeat and humilation, he would kill himself for the W, no only IF Carter can do that!


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> IF Paul Pierce ever averages 27.6 ppg then we can start discussing this issue.


If Vince plays a most of the season we can start discussing this issue.

I'm not going to lie...If Vince is back thats great. Gives the 
(L)eastern division to cheer about.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> I'd agree with this, but I might be in the small minority that picks Carter over AI. I think there aren't too many players more intense then AI, but from that grouping he also brings drama and distractions which I won't want on my team. He is also undersized and has to be complimented with a larger PG such as Snow, as seen by his greater later success. And of course depending on Carter's health.
> 
> But that is just my thoughts.


Please... Carter's PG is bigger than Snow, and Snow is average size for a PG. And why have a player who's not playing half the games over a player who's giving it everything he's got?


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> 
> It still makes me sick to know that he's too lazy to be the best in the game :upset:
> ...


Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap. Why aren't you in the NBA right now? Look at Dan Dickau and Brent Price. Do you think those guys have a lot of natural talent. They have worked their asses off all their life to make it to the NBA. You could have done the same and chose not too, <strike>so don't throw up some kind of BS like this and expect someone to swallow it. </strike><font color=blue> ( TOO personal, almost a verbal attack on the poster.) </font> :nonono: You might not have made it with all you're hard work, but at least you would have tried. Its easy to stand back and say I would have worked hard and I would have trained if I was 6'7" with great leaping ability, but training and work ethic come from the individual. If you never found the training and work ethic and drive to be a basketball player when you were younger than you have only yourself to blame.

It's a lot harder to prepare for an NBA season than people think. Its not like you go shoot jumpshots in the gym all day. There is a lot of discipline and a lot of perseverance associated with it.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>compsciguy78</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap. Why aren't you in the NBA right now? Look at Dan Dickau and Brent Price. Do you think those guys have a lot of natural talent. They have worked their asses off all their life to make it to the NBA.


 Just because they are short doesn't mean they don't have any athletic ability, I'm sure they work hard but your making it seem like they were in band in high school. 


> You could have done the same and chose not too, so don't throw up some kind of BS like this and expect someone to swallow it.


As personal as this attack is I should of just put a cheap shot in here about a female in your life who does swallow, but the mods don't like that too much.


> You might not have made it with all you're hard work, but at least you would have tried. Its easy to stand back and say I would have worked hard and I would have trained if I was 6'7" with great leaping ability, but training and work ethic come from the individual. If you never found the training and work ethic and drive to be a basketball player when you were younger than you have only yourself to blame.


It would of been nice to be able to spend all the time in the world on my game but some people dont' have the luxury of not having to keep a job through out high school


> It's a lot harder to prepare for an NBA season than people think. Its not like you go shoot jumpshots in the gym all day. There is a lot of discipline and a lot of perseverance associated with it.


What the F ever... Sure there are guys who work hard and get to the NBA, and there are those who are blessed and don't have to work as hard as others but I'm betting majority of NBA players were some of the best athletes in their High Schools. I'll admit I could of been more serious about basketball in high school, but I was the last one to leave the gym 90% of the time. So don't discredit me because I said I would of worked harder if I had more athletic ability or height. From where I started in middle school to my senior year wasn't a fricking cake walk. I didn't just go out and buy some game between then and now. So don't just sit back and hate, its a pathedic way to spend your day.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*COME ON*

This shouldnt even be a debate.

It is Paul hands down. Yeah, I may be alittle bias, but come on, ANYONE in their right mind if they were a Gm would want Pierce over Carter.


You simply can't stop Paul from scoring. He can take over a game, whether hes draining J's driving to the hole, or getting hacked to death by poor defender.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hahahaha. These are the ideas that make franchise's fall. People simply have no idea what a player's worth is.

I dont want to start another big debate, BUT COME ON!!!!!!

Carter over Iverson? Vince carter is a girl. His health goes hand in hand with his desire to play. I think Carter babies his injuries to a certain extent.

Iverson would play in a wheelchair if he knew it would help the team.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> Just because they are short doesn't mean they don't have any athletic ability, I'm sure they work hard but your making it seem like they were in band in high school.
> 
> As personal as this attack is I should of just put a cheap shot in here about a female in your life who does swallow, but the mods don't like that too much.
> ...


If I had a dime for everytime I taught people life lessons like yourself I would be a richer man(can't say rich because I already am).

You said if you had Vince's talent you would work hard and be the best you could be. All I said was that is a load of crap. Have you noticed that people that usually have a lot of talent work less and people with less talent work harder! This is not always the case. I am hesitant to believe anyone that says I would have worked hard IF I had this and that. That is BS, straight up! You are given what you are given in life and you either work hard to attain something or you don't. There is no what if I had height or what if I had athletic ability. If someone doesn't work hard when they don't have height or hops, they sure as hell aren't going to work hard when they have those attributes.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>compsciguy78</b>!
> 
> 
> If I had a dime for everytime I taught people life lessons like yourself I would be a richer man(can't say rich because I already am).
> ...


Thats an Opinion. Your judging the whole human race by the tendences of some. You could call it stereotyping if you want.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

Pierce, and it's not even close IMO. Carter, at his best, may be more electrifying, but Pierce rises to the occasion when his team needs it most. That's what separates good players from great players.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Pierce. Carter's fun to watch, but he's nowhere near as well-rounded, tough or intelligent as Pierce is.

If Boston actually gets decent point guard play (which it does not appear they'll have this season), and perhaps a glass cleaner in the next draft, the East better watch out. But this is, as of now, a pipe dream.


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## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: COME ON*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> This shouldnt even be a debate.
> 
> It is Paul hands down. Yeah, I may be alittle bias, but come on, ANYONE in their right mind if they were a Gm would want Pierce over Carter.
> ...


and what , u can stop Vince? just because ur a pp fan doesnt mean that he has to be better that VC......WTF have u been smokin lately


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I'd bet $100 that the average age of those who think Vince is better is considerably less than those who think that Pierce is better. And along with age, of course, comes experience.

Basketball is a bit more than dunking.


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## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thats his opinion, and i agree with him.....

<strike>Vince Carter is a gir????ur ignorance and idiocy is amusing.....no let me put in words that u can understand....U R A F****** MORON!.....he doesnt have desire to play bball? he fakes his injuries? u state them like theyre facts....buddy u need to take ur freakin foot out of ur freakin mouth and use ur freakin brain to back s*** up......quit smokin weed its f****** up ur brain....if u ever had any!</strike>

<font color=blue>THIS reply is unacceptable - as it contains namecalling, vulgarity,and harrassment. When you disagree - do that withOUT breaking the rules of the site, which are at the bottom of every page.</font>


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> thats his opinion, and i agree with him.....
> ...


One of the Carter worshipers to his defense!


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Re: COME ON*



> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> and what , u can stop Vince? just because ur a pp fan doesnt mean that he has to be better that VC......WTF have u been smokin lately


Well, you can't stop Pierce, so that takes away that argument.

Why is it everyone who disagrees with you is smoking something?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I think I'm $100 richer.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*yah*

hey what can u say

canada cannot only produce pros, its hard to find some <strike>canadians with knowledge of the game.</strike>


Raptors eh?

Damn even the NBA GMs know better than to rep a team with Toronto on the Jersey. thats why they changed it. haha


Anyway, enough with the canadian bashin'. <font color=blue> You have that right - as we absolutely do NOT want any country bashed on this site!</font> 



Anyway, Lets be for real. Paul is incredibly better. end of story


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mcgreedy</b>!
> Pierce is good, but VC at his highest leve is better.
> Look at his game since he has been in the US team.
> 
> VC ALL THE WAY:yes:



This is difficult because they both have subtle differences in their games. Paul takes it to the rack more than Vince, but Vince has overall shooting over Paul. They both get double teamed and they both score and each is about the same on defense, IMHO. Vince has always had fewer turnovers than Paul and has instinctively been a better passer, but Paul works hard at every facet of the game.

SO - if I want exciting & effortless shooting = Vince.

If I want almost never injured and fun to watch = Paul.


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