# vote vote week 5 top 25 rankings



## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

I'm guessing kansasalum can't be at the computer tonight, so I figured I'd post this for him, so you guys can get started. As usual, voting closes at 10:30pm CST on Monday unless ka says differently.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

thank you, I was about to post this thread


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Great minds, eh?

I'll post my list tomorrow afternoon, after I calculate the ORI.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

1. Syracuse
2. Duke
3. Texas
4. West Virginia
5. Purdue
6. Kansas
7. Kansas St.
8. Georgetown
9. New Mexico
10. Ole Miss
11. Tennessee
12. California
13. Ohio St.
14. Southern Miss
15. Clemson
16. Kentucky
17. UConn
18. Temple
19. Villanova
20. Memphis
21. Florida
22. Texas A&M
23. Texas Tech
24. BYU
25. Richmond


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

1. Syracuse
2. Kansas
3. Texas
4. West Virginia
5. Purdue
6. Tennessee
7. Kentucky
8. Duke
9. Florida
10. Georgetown
11. Villanova
12. North Carolina
13. Mississippi
14. Michigan STate
15. Kansas State
16. Mississippi State
17. Ohio State
18. Gonzaga
19. Florida State
20. Wisconsin
21. St. Mary's
22. New Mexico
23. Texas Tech
24. Dayton
25. Georgia Tech


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

1 Kansas
2 Texas
3 West Virginia
4 Syracuse
5 Purdue
6 Villanova
7 Michigan State
8 Tennessee
9 Kentucky
10 Duke
11 Florida
12 UNC
13 Butler
14 Flordia state
15 Georgetown
16 UCONN
17 Georgia Tech
18 Missisppii
19 KSU
20 Texas Tech
21 Texas A&M
22 Washington
23 Wisconsin
24 Clemson
25 Memphis


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Can you give me like 30-45 mins ... sorry living in South Korea is hard. :beheader:


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Scratch that I need 3 hours at least to sort this through... lots of ranked or 26-35 teams (i hate you villanova) loss


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Is discredit any list that doesn't have New Mexico on it.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

IN fact, kansasalum, I'm very surprised you have Wisconsin and Texas A&M on your list and not New Mexico. Care to explain that?


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

coolpohle said:


> 1. Syracuse
> 2. Duke
> 3. Texas
> 4. West Virginia
> ...


I'll post the obvious.

Why Duke at 2 and why Kentucky at 16?


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Willo said:


> IN fact, kansasalum, I'm very surprised you have Wisconsin and Texas A&M on your list and not New Mexico. Care to explain that?


 Wisconsin has beat Maryland, Duke, and Marquette.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

apelman42 said:


> I'll post the obvious.
> 
> Why Duke at 2 and why Kentucky at 16?


Well, I'm think he based his ranking on one computer model. Not sure which one yet, probably Saragin, and then fiddled with it a bit.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Willo said:


> Well, I'm think he based his ranking on one computer model. Not sure which one yet, probably Saragin, and then fiddled with it a bit.


My guess is pomeroy, but yeah that's probably what happened.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Nimreitz said:


> My guess is pomeroy, but yeah that's probably what happened.


I suggested Sagarin because his top five is identical to that one. KenPom would be a better one to straight copy, but still foolish.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

No Gonzaga on some of these is laughable.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Ya this weeks top 25 is gonna be weird
1. Kansas
2. Kentucky
3. Texas
4. Purdue
5. Syracuse
6. West Virginia
7. Tennessee
8. Duke
9. Georgetown
10. UNC
11. Michigan State
12. Villanova
13. UConn
14. Florida
15. New Mexico
16. Kansas State
17. Memphis
18. Texas Tech
19. Butler
20. Ohio State
21. Georgia Tech
22. Ole Miss
23. Temple
24. St Marys
25. Missouri State


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

apelman42 said:


> I'll post the obvious.
> 
> Why Duke at 2 and why Kentucky at 16?


If your only loss is @ Wisconsin, I think you're doing something right. They dismantled some good teams in Coastal Carolina and Charlotte, and had comfortable wins over quality teams in Arizona St. and UConn.

Kentucky is 10-0 which is impressive, but the way they've done it has not been. A top five team doesn't squeak by 2-7 Miami of Ohio at home, and doesn't need overtime on a neutral court to beat Stanford - a team that lost at home to lowly Oral Roberts.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> Well, I'm think he based his ranking on one computer model. Not sure which one yet, probably Saragin, and then fiddled with it a bit.


My list is somewhat similar to Sagarin's list, but it's not solely based off of it.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> No Gonzaga on some of these is laughable.


I'll quote the most knowledgable guy on this board and he said Gonzaga is overrated. It's hard to disagree with him. Top 25 teams don't squeak by Colorado and lose at home to Wake Forest.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

1. Syracuse - Have just earned this position. Kansas may be better but has not proven it yet.
2. Kansas
3. Texas
4. Purdue
5. Kentucky
6. West Virginia
7. Duke
8. Georgetown
9. Villanova
10. Tennessee
11. New Mexico
12. UNC
13. Florida
14. Ole Miss
15. Kansas St
16. Michigan St
17. Texas Tech
18. St. Mary's
19. Wisconsin
20. Temple
21. Gonzaga
22. UConn
23. Texas A&M
24. Memphis
25. Miami


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

1.Syracuse
2.Kentucky
3.Kansas
4.Texas
5.West Virginia
6.Purdue
7.Florida
8.Duke
9.Villanova
10. New Mexico
11. Georgetown
12. Kansas St.
13. Mississippi
14. Tenn
15. UNC
16. Wisconsin
17. Texas Tech
18. Michigan State
19. UNLV
20. Cincy
21. Wisconsin
22. Michigan State
23. Ohio St.
24. UConn
25. Southern Miss


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

How do people rank Villanova so high and leave Temple unranked after yesterday?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> How do people rank Villanova so high and leave Temple unranked after yesterday?


\

I will put Temple towards the bottom of my top 25 most likely.

One team that I have seen high on your list that is questionable is Southern Miss. They are high on Sagarin, but they have only played 4 D1 games (they ahve played three D2 teams) - all on the road, and won against three middling 100-200 level teams, and only by two at Ole Miss.

I think Sagarin rating after 8-10 games have more predictive value then a writer's poll, so no problem you using that as a baseline to start your rankings. But after four games the results are potentially quite skewed.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

thatsnotgross said:


> 1.Syracuse
> 2.Kentucky
> 3.Kansas
> 4.Texas
> ...


You got Wisconsin Twice.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> One team that I have seen high on your list that is questionable is Southern Miss. They are high on Sagarin, but they have only played 4 D1 games (they ahve played three D2 teams) - all on the road, and won against three middling 100-200 level teams, and only by two at Ole Miss.


And one of those games is a narrow two point loss at Ole Miss, a team most consider to be top 20 caliber. They look like they have a legit 1-2 combo in Flowers and Bolden.


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## RR 823 (Mar 29, 2003)

1 Kansas
2 Kentucky
3 Texas
4 Syracuse
5 Purdue
6 Duke
7 West Virginia
8 Villanova
9 North Carolina
10 Connecticut
11 Georgetown
12 Michigan State 
13 Tennessee
14 Florida
15 Ohio State
16 New Mexico
17 Kansas State
18 Ole Miss 
19 Texas Tech
20 Georgia Tech
21 Texas A&M
22 Gonzaga
23 Memphis
24 Clemson
25 Butler


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

1. Kansas
2. Texas
3. Syracuse
4. Purdue
5. West Virginia
6. Kentucky
7. Tennessee
8. Duke
9. Georgetown
10. New Mexico
11. Kansas State
12. UConn
13. Villanova
14. Florida
15. UNC
16. Michigan State
17. Gonzaga
18. Butler
19. Mississippi
20. Ohio State
21. Texas A&M
22. Temple
23. Texas Tech
24. St. Mary's
25. Seton Hall


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> And one of those games is a narrow two point loss at Ole Miss, a team most consider to be top 20 caliber. They look like they have a legit 1-2 combo in Flowers and Bolden.


It's hard to give a team with a thin resume a boost for a "good loss".

Statistical ratings have some predictive value at this point, but there still isn't enough data for them to be all that significant at this point.



coolpohle said:


> How do people rank Villanova so high and leave Temple unranked after yesterday?


That's a fair point, as long as they keep winning I'll probably have Temple in next week. There just seem to be a lot of teams cluttered around 15-35.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Nimreitz said:


> It's hard to give a team with a thin resume a boost for a "good loss".
> 
> Statistical ratings have some predictive value at this point, but there still isn't enough data for them to be all that significant at this point.


I count good losses. A two point road loss equals a six point home win by predictive standards.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> I count good losses. A two point road loss equals a six point home win by predictive standards.


Depends on the home court, depends on the teams. Depends on a lot of things. By your standards, Miami (OH) should be credited with a 4 point win over Kentucky and a two point win over Cincinnati.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> Depends on the home court, depends on the teams. Depends on a lot of things.


Vegas would strongly disagree with that statement. I take their word over yours.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> By your standards, Miami (OH) should be credited with a 4 point win over Kentucky and a two point win over Cincinnati.


Home/road is an eight point swing buddy. That would be a six point win and a four point win.

Hence why I have Kentucky lower than everyone else.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> Vegas would strongly disagree with that statement. I take their word over yours.


I think most people on this board would suggest I know more about the computer rankings than anyone else here, but hey, go ahead.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> I think most people on this board would suggest I know more about the computer rankings than anyone else here, but hey, go ahead.


I think most people on this board would suggest I know more about the vegas lines than anyone else here, but hey, go ahead.

And based on you not knowing that the home/road swing is eight points, it sounds to me like you think you know more than you actually do. We can go all day on this stuff, buddy. People on here know that I won't back down. 

Vegas automatically gives the home team four points, whether it's a sellout at Duke or in front of 500 people at UT-Martin.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

I think you misread me. I said that not every home court gives you an eight point advantage. Just because Vegas works that way, doesn't mean every place does.

First off: teams play at different tempos and style. Grind it out teams are more likely to have lower margin of victories, but can often times be tougher to beat than a fast paced no defense offense. Applying a one size fits all home court advantage may work for Vegas, but for analyzing and understanding teams strength it's fairly useless. Teams under and over preform all the time. Computers can not tell you how well teams responded to these situations. If a team is under preforming, do they respond and come back to win (ala Kentucky) or does a team constantly fall apart in the last couple of minutes and let teams close in (Clemson)?


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> I think you misread me. I said that not every home court gives you an eight point advantage. Just because Vegas works that way, doesn't mean every place does.
> 
> First off: teams play at different tempos and style. Grind it out teams are more likely to have lower margin of victories, but can often times be tougher to beat than a fast paced no defense offense.


Incorrect. Home court gives you a four point advantage...road/home swing gives you an eight.

False again. Just because a team like Princeton plays at a slow pace doesn't affect their line. They're still going to be an 11-12 point favorite at home over a team like Monmouth whether they play ridiculously fast or incredibly slow.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

This is some good stuff. Keep it up you 2.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> I'll quote the most knowledgable guy on this board and he said Gonzaga is overrated. It's hard to disagree with him. Top 25 teams don't squeak by Colorado and lose at home to Wake Forest.


Top 25 teams win games no matter what happens. Are two losses are by a combined 6 points to two good teams. Our victories are against better teams than a lot of the teams listed in people's top 25 considering teams with one or two losses.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Top 25 teams win games no matter what happens. Are two losses are by a combined 6 points to two good teams. Our victories are against better teams than a lot of the teams listed in people's top 25 considering teams with one or two losses.


Have you watched your Zags this year? Their perimeter defense is absolutely atrocious and I see no reason to think that it's going to improve anytime soon, if at all.

The only team they've beaten that's top 25 caliber is Wisconsin, and as a Badger fan having watched most of their games, I feel they are being talked up more than they deserve. Cincinnati is probably the 9th best team in the Big East and they needed overtime to beat them. Wake Forest is a decent team, they're nothing special - they were handled at home by William & Mary. That should've been a comfortable win for them. If they had won that game they would be in my rankings. They didn't win. Thus they aren't.

Put your bias aside and analyze the team like you should.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Top 25 teams win games no matter what happens. Are two losses are by a combined 6 points to two good teams. Our victories are against better teams than a lot of the teams listed in people's top 25 considering teams with one or two losses.


every year and every top 25 voteyou always complain that Zags are not in people rankings, but yet you hardly vote


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

kansasalumn said:


> every year and every top 25 voteyou always complain that Zags are not in people rankings, but yet you hardly vote


No kidding. If you don't vote, you have no right to complain.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

William & Mary is a darn good team, just throwing that out there.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> William & Mary is a darn good team, just throwing that out there.


Darn good? That's a bit lofty. Darn good teams don't beat Hampton by a point at home.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Im sorry coolpohle but if you think Home Court is a 4 point advantage no matter what, you are oblivious
Willo got you on this one, you maybe right about Vegas, but the fact of the matter is, real basketball has shown otherwise
4 point is a pretty good average but bottom line its different game to game, court to court, team to team
Some guys are able to play better on the road than others, Cameron Crazies effect Tennessee a lot more than 500 guys in UT Martin when half of the crowd are Vols fans anyway
Some guys go on fire and gain a lot of momentum from home crowds, some dont care either way
Its also about match ups
Dallas was the best team in the NBA but couldnt match up against the warriors so they lost in the playoffs
If I was doing a top 25 in the NBA for that season I would still have Dallas above Warriors
Same thing, just because Kentucky doesnt match up against a really well coached Miami Ohio team when Kentucky is one of the least experienced teams in the country in one of their first games of the season, doesnt mean they are overrated
In fact I give them credit for pulling out a tough game showing they can play under pressure in final minutes of close games


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Look at Hampton's season so far. No one's blown them out. William and Mary's two losses have come against UConn and Harvard on the road, and they've beaten Richmond, Wake Forest and VCU.

To use the same logic on you: Southern Miss only beat Louisiana Lafayette by 7 and Montana State by 2. How can a top 15 team do that?


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

fjkdsi said:


> Im sorry coolpohle but if you think Home Court is a 4 point advantage no matter what, you are oblivious


False. I'm correct. Home point advantage is a four point advantage. But the swing from road/home? That's an eight point swing. You are oblivious. You want to argue Vegas principles? That's why they have multi-million dollar casions.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> Look at Hampton's season so far. No one's blown them out. William and Mary's two losses have come against UConn and Harvard on the road, and they've beaten Richmond, Wake Forest and VCU.
> 
> To use the same logic on you: Southern Miss only beat Louisiana Lafayette by 7 and Montana State by 2. How can a top 15 team do that?


A seven point win @ LA Lafayette is better than a one point home win over Hampton.

Ahhh...it's like I always tell these people that want to challenge me. Join the LOTD contest. Prove yourself. Then I'll give you credit. Everyone always declines.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> False. I'm correct. Home point advantage is a four point advantage. But the swing from road/home? That's an eight point swing. You are oblivious.


We're talking about the real world. You're talking about Vegas. Not everything is cut and dry in the real world.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> A seven point win @ LA Lafayette is better than a one point home win over Hampton.
> 
> Ahhh...it's like I always tell these people that want to challenge me. Join the LOTD contest. Prove yourself. Then I'll give you credit. Everyone always declines.


And any win over Hampton is better than a win over a DII school. Or three.

Just for the record:

William and Mary quality wins: 3.
Southern Miss quality wins: 0.

I don't know what LOTD is, perhaps you can explain.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> We're talking about the real world. You're talking about Vegas. Not everything is cut and dry in the real world.


Does that mean you decline? Shocking...


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> And any win over Hampton is better than a win over a DII school. Or three.
> 
> Just for the record:
> 
> ...


http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10-conference/436305-2009-10-locks-day-contest-week-6-a.html

Put those two on a neutral court and I guarantee you Southern Miss is favored.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Dude, determining which teams have better resumes is TOTALLY different than predicting who will win games, more so when you add in the spread. So, no, I'm not going to do it, because it's uninteresting to me. I'm willing to have a bracketology contest with you, however, as that is a bit more of my thing.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> Dude, determining which teams have better resumes is TOTALLY different than predicting who will win games, more so when you add in the spread. So, no, I'm not going to do it, because it's uninteresting to me. I'm willing to have a bracketology contest with you, however, as that is a bit more of my thing.


Yes, another decline! That's probably about 10 now. Well, I generally tend to predict totals more than games, but that's a separate issue. Uninteresting because you'd lose? Yeah, probably. Feel free to post your bracket. That's what the bracketology section is for.

As far as bracketology goes, I'd put my mid-season (January/early February brackets) against anyone's, although when it comes to the final bracket I've been average. Last year I'd put teams in a good few weeks before anyone else. I know I had Oklahoma St. around a 9-10 seed last year at one point and I was the only one that had them in on the bracket matrix. Three weeks later everyone did. I've made some tweaking that will hopefully have my end season bracket corrected this year.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

I already did post my bracket right now.

Furthermore, it's uninteresting to me because I don't care how much teams win by, but HOW they win or lose.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Talking about pissing matches, I wonder if this AP writer is pissed at some Orange staff at his media outlet.

http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=10&p=20&t1=0&t2=0&v=157&w=6&r=V


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Ew. And he has Illinois as No. 18? Double ew.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> Have you watched your Zags this year? Their perimeter defense is absolutely atrocious and I see no reason to think that it's going to improve anytime soon, if at all.
> 
> The only team they've beaten that's top 25 caliber is Wisconsin, and as a Badger fan having watched most of their games, I feel they are being talked up more than they deserve. Cincinnati is probably the 9th best team in the Big East and they needed overtime to beat them. Wake Forest is a decent team, they're nothing special - they were handled at home by William & Mary. That should've been a comfortable win for them. If they had won that game they would be in my rankings. They didn't win. Thus they aren't.
> 
> Put your bias aside and analyze the team like you should.


I've watched every game this year. Perimeter defense has nothing to do with where a team should be ranked. Last I checked pollsters don't take into account perimeter defense when looking at wins and losses. They beat Wisconsin, Cincinnati and Washington St. who are all top 25 caliber. I laugh at Cincinnati being the 9th best team in the Big East. They will be a tournament team, you can book that. In fact, I'll comeback to this post in March and call you out for that. They are a solid team and we beat them on the third game in 3 nights. 

The Wake Forest loss was a fluke. Elias Harris who is our 2nd leading scorer, leading rebounder and by far best defender was kicked out of the game midway through the first half. At the time we were up by 14. It happened on a box out for a 3 point shot, when they hit it they then got two shots and the ball, resulting in a 7 point swing. The team never recovered from that and lost Harris for the second half. 

Our resume is much more deserving than many of the teams that are listed in people's top 25.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

kansasalumn said:


> every year and every top 25 voteyou always complain that Zags are not in people rankings, but yet you hardly vote


I don't get on this site as regularly as I used to and many times the polling has closed before I can get them. I also like to wait until conference play before I act like I've seen all the teams play.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> I've watched every game this year. Perimeter defense has nothing to do with where a team should be ranked. Last I checked pollsters don't take into account perimeter defense when looking at wins and losses. They beat Wisconsin, Cincinnati and Washington St. who are all top 25 caliber. I laugh at Cincinnati being the 9th best team in the Big East. They will be a tournament team, you can book that. In fact, I'll comeback to this post in March and call you out for that. They are a solid team and we beat them on the third game in 3 nights.
> 
> The Wake Forest loss was a fluke. Elias Harris who is our 2nd leading scorer, leading rebounder and by far best defender was kicked out of the game midway through the first half. At the time we were up by 14. It happened on a box out for a 3 point shot, when they hit it they then got two shots and the ball, resulting in a 7 point swing. The team never recovered from that and lost Harris for the second half.
> 
> Our resume is much more deserving than many of the teams that are listed in people's top 25.


Sure it does. If your perimeter defense is horrible, it affects how good you are. That's a serious hole they have.

Washington St. is top 25 caliber? Now I know you're just being retarded.

Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, St. John's, West Virginia, Marquette, South Florida, UConn.  Yeah, Cincinnati is really good, they've beaten Maryland! omg


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> I don't get on this site as regularly as I used to and many times the polling has closed before I can get them. I also like to wait until conference play before I act like I've seen all the teams play.


Come on now, play nice...


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

ok you had 5pm PT Sunday evening to 8:30pm PT on monday 24 hours, and also you were online during that time on the thread, so the excuse that polling has closed, is a weak one


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

vote will be posted around 1-3pm CDT today. Anyone can vote until 12 Ct,


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

thatsnotgross said:


> Can you give me like 30-45 mins ... sorry living in South Korea is hard. :beheader:


at least you vote compare to zag where he lives in WA and states he can not vote b/c of the lack of time


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> Sure it does. If your perimeter defense is horrible, it affects how good you are. That's a serious hole they have.
> 
> Washington St. is top 25 caliber? Now I know you're just being retarded.
> 
> Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, St. John's, West Virginia, Marquette, South Florida, UConn.  Yeah, Cincinnati is really good, they've beaten Maryland! omg


I bet you haven't seen Washington St. play once. Klay Thompson is probably the best pure scorer in the nation. They also have great perimeter defense, therefore they are easily a top 25 caliber team. Its funny how you act like the messiah of college basketball. When your really just a talking piece for some website that you read.

St. Johns, Marquette, South Florida, Seton Hall? Give me a break. ****, watching Harvard almost beat UCONN I'm not even sure they're better.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

kansasalumn said:


> ok you had 5pm PT Sunday evening to 8:30pm PT on monday 24 hours, and also you were online during that time on the thread, so the excuse that polling has closed, is a weak one


I go to school, a lot of the time I'm online, I'm browsing the board. That doesn't mean I have the time to post a poll.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> I bet you haven't seen Washington St. play once. Klay Thompson is probably the best pure scorer in the nation. They also have great perimeter defense, therefore they are easily a top 25 caliber team. Its funny how you act like the messiah of college basketball. When your really just a talking piece for some website that you read.
> 
> St. Johns, Marquette, South Florida, Seton Hall? Give me a break. ****, watching Harvard almost beat UCONN I'm not even sure they're better.


Some website isn't going to hit 63% ATS buddy. Washington St.'s best win is over Idaho. Woohoo. They lost by 17 to Kansas St. They do not have a great perimeter defense, or defense in general anymore. Tony Bennett is gone. He took the defense with him. 

St. John's 8-1 won @ Temple, something Villanova couldn't do.

Marquette 7-3 beat Xavier, a team Cincinnati lost to.

South Florida 7-2, sick 1-2 combo in Gilchrist and Jones.

Seton Hall undefeated, all but one win by double digits. 

UConn 6-2, nearly beat a Kentucky team that many consider to be top 2-3.

I don't make this stuff up buddy. You seem to do a lot of just that.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> I go to school, a lot of the time I'm online, I'm browsing the board. That doesn't mean I have the time to post a poll.


Blah blah blah...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> Some website isn't going to hit 63% ATS buddy. Washington St.'s best win is over Idaho. Woohoo. They lost by 17 to Kansas St. They do not have a great perimeter defense, or defense in general anymore. Tony Bennett is gone. He took the defense with him.
> 
> St. John's 8-1 won @ Temple, something Villanova couldn't do.
> 
> ...


If were going to play the 6 degrees of seperation game, we can do that. 

Washington St. blew out a San Diego team by 37 points, the same San Diego team that beat a ranked Oklahoma team by 12 and beat a Stanford team handily that took #2 Kentucky to the wire in OT.

Ken Bone's Cougar team plays every bit the defense that Bennett's team did, but they play a much faster paced offense leading to more points and more possessions for the opposing teams.

South Florida has a good 1-2 combo. Congrats to them. That doesn't equal wins, they're an average team and a below average Big East team.

Seton Hall has played a bunch of nobody's. Jeremy Hazell is a solid player, the rest of that team is average and once they play somebody worth a damn it will give us a better measure of how average they are.

Marquette and UCONN are on par with Cincinnati. All will be tournament teams. St. Johns, South Florida and Seton Hall are not tournament caliber teams.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

How come you ignored the 63% comment? Ahhh...they always do!

San Diego and Oklahoma both suck.

Kenpom has Washington St. in the 200s defensively.

South Florida's excellent 1-2 combo is leading to wins. Seven of them.

Winning at Cornell by double digits is not a nobody. Pope, Mitchell, and Harvey are playing great as well. They've also got Jamel Jackson who made like 13 threes the other night.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Also, that UConn win against Harvard is looking better and better each week. I'm really hoping Harvard and Cornell each go 13-1 in the Ivy League, so we can have a championship game for an NCAA bid between the two. That would be an awesome game.

Washington State, right now, should not be considered a top 25 team. They can afford to have very few slipups in a weak Pac 10 this year if they hope to make the tournament.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> I go to school, a lot of the time I'm online, I'm browsing the board. That doesn't mean I have the time to post a poll.


I have 2 jobs, 2 kids, and volunteer for Autism Speaks


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> How come you ignored the 63% comment? Ahhh...they always do!
> 
> San Diego and Oklahoma both suck.
> 
> ...


I don't have any proof of your bets ATS, if you have a good record ATS, how do I know those are your picks and not someone elses. Its cute that you brag about it to people and expect everyone to kiss your feet based on that though.

I never said San Diego was a good team, I'm just showing how your 6 degrees of seperation theory is flimsy. Oklahoma is a good team, borderline top 25.

South Florida's 1-2 combo has lead them to wins against scrub teams. They have two bad losses against South Carolina and Central Michigan at home. Two scrub teams. Not sure what you find impressive about what they've done. I'm sure you'll alude to their 1-2 combo though.

Cool, Seton Hall beat Cornell on the road. That isn't as impressive as beating Vanderbilt, Maryland and losing a very close, physical crosstown shootout game against Xavier in 2OT's. A game that could have gone either way, with many technicals. On a neutral court, Cincinnati wins that game. Losing by 2 in OT to a solid Gonzaga team in the finals of a preseason tournament is nothing to hang your head about if your Cincinnati either.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

kansasalumn said:


> I have 2 jobs, 2 kids, and volunteer for Autism Speaks


Thats sweet that you have put making a poll on this site one of your priorities. Between two jobs and 21 credits I don't feel that making a poll on here is one of my priorities. If the opportunity presents itself for me to take my time and fill one out, I will definitely do so.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> I don't have any proof of your bets ATS, if you have a good record ATS, how do I know those are your picks and not someone elses. Its cute that you brag about it to people and expect everyone to kiss your feet based on that though.
> 
> I never said San Diego was a good team, I'm just showing how your 6 degrees of seperation theory is flimsy. Oklahoma is a good team, borderline top 25.
> 
> ...


Search the 2007-2008 LOTD thread. I did it on the forum. Can't make that up. Don't expect people to kiss my feet, but I think people that hate don't realize how incredibly difficult a task that is. 59% is considered genius level.

Oklahoma is a borderline top 25 team? Their best win is over Arizona, and they've lost on neutral courts to San Diego and Houston, and lost by double digits to VCU. Do you even pay attention?

That South Carolina game was in Charleston, that's certainly not a home game.

Vanderbilt and Maryland are not nearly as good as you're making them out to be. 

There's a difference between beating scrub teams and crushing them. That's what Seton Hall is doing. And when they do play a quality team on the road? They still win by double digits.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Thats sweet that you have put making a poll on this site one of your priorities. Between two jobs and 21 credits I don't feel that making a poll on here is one of my priorities. If the opportunity presents itself for me to take my time and fill one out, I will definitely do so.


Yet you have plenty of time to complain about everyone else's? Sweet dude, sweet.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> Yet you have plenty of time to complain about everyone else's? Sweet dude, sweet.


Its not very time consuming actually.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Its not very time consuming actually.


Neither is ranking 25 teams.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> Search the 2007-2008 LOTD thread. I did it on the forum. Can't make that up. Don't expect people to kiss my feet, but I think people that hate don't realize how incredibly difficult a task that is. 59% is considered genius level.
> 
> Oklahoma is a borderline top 25 team? Their best win is over Arizona, and they've lost on neutral courts to San Diego and Houston, and lost by double digits to VCU. Do you even pay attention?
> 
> ...


Oklahoma is a team that is about in the 30 to 35 area in my personal rankings.

I never said the South Carolina game was a home game, I said the Central Michigan game was at home. Which is a horrible loss. 

You crack me up, I never stated that Vanderbilt and Maryland were great teams. They are certainly better than the opponents of the teams that we are comparing to Cincinnati though. 

That win over Cornell on the road is certainly a nice win. But, it is hardly a single win that convinces me that a team that has no other solid wins should be ranked because of it. Seton Hall will be a .500 or worse team in the Big East this year.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

You need to re-do your personal rankings then.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Oklahoma is not anywhere close to the top 25, but VCU isn't a bad loss, even by double digits. They have wins over Richmond, Nevada and Rhode Island. Not great wins, but three pretty good ones.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Willo said:


> Oklahoma is not anywhere close to the top 25, but VCU isn't a bad loss, even by double digits. They have wins over Richmond, Nevada and Rhode Island. Not great wins, but three pretty good ones.


If they're a top 30 team like that tool says, they wouldn't lose by double digits to VCU - that was my point.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> I laugh at Cincinnati being the 9th best team in the Big East. They will be a tournament team, you can book that. In fact, I'll comeback to this post in March and call you out for that. They are a solid team and we beat them on the third game in 3 nights.


After watching them last night, I don't even know if they're the 9th best team in the Big East. They have Vaughn and Gates. That's it. No bench. Start three underclassmen. Can't shoot the three.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> No Gonzaga on some of these is laughable.


Duke 76 Gonzaga 41. Now that's laughable.

It's so funny how this stuff always plays out. At the beginning of the week you might not look so silly, but some time later, it seems like I always come out smiling.


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