# Another upset alert.



## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

They are ranked #7 right now (I think). Just one game or overrated?


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Wisconsin loses to Missouri St, 66-64.*

It's just one game, Missouri State is a good team and definitely one of the better mid-majors out there. Tough to take, but I don't read too much into it.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: Wisconsin loses to Missouri St, 66-64.*

They will take a pretty big stumble in my top 25 (probably around 15), but that's the nature of early season basketball. They will have a great chance to prove themselves again vs. Pitt.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: Wisconsin loses to Missouri St, 66-64.*

just one game


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Wisconsin loses to Missouri St, 66-64.*



JuniorNoboa said:


> They will take a pretty big stumble in my top 25 (probably around 15), but that's the nature of early season basketball. They will have a great chance to prove themselves again vs. Pitt.


And Marquette. Also, just like to add that I'm a little scared of the Wisconsin schedule right now. There are a LOT of those really great Mid Major teams on it: Winthrop, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Pacific, and of course Missouri State.

Oh, and what the hell is Alando Tucker doing pulling back for a 20 foot jumper at the end of the game. That's not his strength, take it to the hole young man!


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Wichita St. beat LSU 57-53. Is it just me, or does it seem like there are a lot more upsets taking place early in the year this year than there was last year?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

This is not an upset IMO. Wichita State returned 4 starters from a Sweet Sixteen team. Good team with a very good chance to repeat as Valley Champs.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I agree with you about Wichita St. having a good team, and its not huge upset, but nonetheless its still an upset. Its going to be an interesting race in that conference this year, Creighton as always is tough and Northern Iowa plays a slow it down methodical similar style to Butler.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

mid-majors doesn't mean cupcakes anymore, especially the ones that return guys who've played against teams in major conferences. i've said this like 10 times already, but even these top teams are relying heavily on young guys, often freshmen. that means early hiccups are expected.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I wasn't the least bit surprised by this loss.

The only thing that got me so mad is that LSU was up the ENTIRE game and then with 1:26 seconds left Wichita St. took the lead. 

The better team didnt win today but the better executing team certainly did. Wichita St is no joke and whoever they face better really plan for a great executing disciplined team. 

LSU (Glen Davis in particular) completely had piss poor shot selection. No one on Wichita St. could guard Glen Davis in the post but he insisted on jacking up 3 pointers and long jumpshots instead. Also the team refused to make a free throw when it mattered most.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

This isn't a big deal unless you don't don't understand the new reality in college basketball and how conferences like the Valley have pretty much attained parity with the so called power conferences.

The mid majors have a real advantage in being able to retain and develop their players.I know that Duke has shied away from recruiting certain guys like Kris Humphries because they found he intended to bolt after one season.You'll see a lot more of that when you're not talking about the handful of guys who might make the difference in winning a title that one year.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

The way I see it, there have been a lot of great coaches at mid-majors who aren't getting a shot at the high major level. It seems to me that almost always a big school will either hire another big conference coach, or take a big name assistant from a major program. So these mid major coaches are staying in places and building great programs. Northern Iowa, Gonzaga, Creighton, Wichita State, George Mason, Southern Illinois and Butler are all top notch programs. The last few great mid major coaches that I remember getting to a big program are Bo Ryan, Bruce Pearl, Dan Monson, Bruce Weber and Bill Self (to Illinois of course) and for the most part they have all been successful. If you leave a Bill Self at Tulsa for long enough, he's gonna knock off some good teams. That's what's going on in my opinion.

Plus I think the athleticism advantage that the high majors always had is being marginalized. A kid can only be so athletic, but these days everyone with any hope of D1 ball is working on that before they even get to high school.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You left out Thad Matta. He coached at Butler.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

The other thing is that mid-major powerhouses tend to have older experienced teams with defined roles - it helps throughout the season, and probably more earlier in the season


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## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

Wichita State is one hell of a team and Syracuse plays them next at The Dome :uhoh:


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

Mid Majors talent level is catching up to the big programs.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Ghost said:


> Mid Majors talent level is catching up to the big programs.


is it really?


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

mid-majors = more experienced players


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

*Depaul upsets kansas*

64-57


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Depaul upsets kansas*

Honestly, what the hell. Kansasalum, what's going on here?


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: Depaul upsets kansas*

no leaders, quiet simple


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Depaul upsets kansas*



Nimreitz said:


> Honestly, what the hell. Kansasalum, what's going on here?



young not mentally tough team. All the tools to be a great team, but mentally wise they are not good


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Marquette got stunned by North Dakota St.

Dominic James with a quiet night with 3-11 from the field and 8 points.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: Depaul upsets kansas*

did you see some of those shots mejia hit? falling away jumpers, 3pointers with hands in his face, 22ft jumpers... he was incredible.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

North Dakota State is the best team in the state of Wisconsin. They beat my Badgers last year at the Kohl Center too. Some conference needs to snatch up the Bison.

Wichita State beat Syracuse at the Dome today as well, although I can't imagine this is an upset. The Shockers are a top 10 team so far.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Wins at LSU and Syracuse. Most BCS leagues won't have road wins like that.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I'd have to say that Wichita State,Butler and Air Force have all impressed me tremendously so far.I sort of wonder if Skip Prosser was drunk when he agreed to play road games at Bucknell and at Air Force.You really got damned little to gain from beating Bucknell compared to risk...And not much to gain from getting your brains beaten in by Air Force.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Yeah no kidding, especially considering Jeff Bzdelik has the ability to out gameplan and out coach 99% of college coaches. He wasn't terrible in Denver by any means, he was an average NBA coach, but put a guy who's average in the NBA out in the Mountain West, and he's going to have an impact.

Just realized that Michael Nelson, one of the kids who was on fire for North Dakota State tonight against Marquette, won Wisconsin's Mr. Basketball in 2004 ahead of Marcus Landry, Michael Flowers, Greg Steimsma, and a sophomore Jerry Smith. He also played in the same backcourt as Wes Matthews in high school and was considered to have played better than him in 2004, although of course he's less athletic and a year older. Very interesting. And if anyone actually cares about Wisconsin Basketball as much as me (doubt it), the award was by default because no one wanted to give Dupree Fletcher (by FAR the best player in the state that year) the Mr. Basketball award because he was basically a felon already. He got kicked off the Evansville (MVC) basketball team his first semester there and is playing NAIA ball somewhere now.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Right now it looks like Wichita State, Creighton, Missouri State and Southern Illinois will be locks to the NCAA tournament.

Northern Iowa, Illinois State and Bradley also have done well out of conference. Should be fun watching the Valley this year.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Georgia Tech loses to Miami (FL)
Maryland loses to Notre Dame

Florida St. up by 11 with 8 minutes to go...


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## CbobbyB (Feb 16, 2006)

Florida St. wins 70-66 over #4 Florida


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

I think that the pre season polls were a bit out of whack. first and foremost I don't think UNC and Ohio State are bad teams but a bit premature to be a top 5 team. Both teams are going in with the majority of freshmen and sophmores. I don't understand how teams like Ohio State, UNC and other very VERY young teams could be rank that high.

Mid-majors are doing one thing right and that is to give pay raises, long term extensions and locking up coaches to make sure they stay with that team. Of course there will be a few coaches that will leave for the riches of the big conferences but many are staying within the program. It will definitely help the program out in the long run.

How many more years do we give the Valley to finally say, "okay we get it, you are as good as advertised"?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

thatsnotgross said:


> How many more years do we give the Valley to finally say, "okay we get it, you are as good as advertised"?


I don't think the MVC has the infrastructure, prestige, to stay at the top that long... they will stay a good conference but not an elite top 6 conference that they are proving to be again thi

There run is probably similar to that of the A-10 in the 90's. They had a nice run, but the programs were just not big enough to be consistently at the top of the country (UMass, Temple, Rhode Island....)

To win on the MVC you have recruit really good.. you need to find gems, and there is less room for error. Long term they can't be as successful as a power conference... but in given period they can have 3-4 teams have the right coaching formula and have good players to make it an elite conference,


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Yeah that makes sense. What Gonzaga has done in the WCC is truely amazing because they have made a mid-major program the destination for top recruits. But they are definitely an exception, and if you're a top recruit in Iowa for instance, you are still going to Iowa over Northern Iowa 10 times out of 10. Same for Illinois over Southern Illinois. There just isn't that prestige factor in the MVC even though there are some fantastic coaches and programs in that conference. I don't think the MVC will ever hit rock bottom like the A-10 has, but it won't have 5 or 6 tournament teams every year from now on.

And I also think that as long as a lot of the average big conference programs continue to ignore the midwest, which is getting a lot better than a lot of people realize (I'm talking about Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota; not Kansas, Indiana, and Illinois which everyone knows about already), the MVC will be viable. Until we start seeing Oregon State recruiting three star Minnesota guys, the guys who are loading up the MVC right now, the MVC will flourish. Dick and Tony Bennett are trying to do it with Wazzou, but with limited success.


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## E-MO_416 (Oct 17, 2006)

thatsnotgross said:


> I think that the pre season polls were a bit out of whack. first and foremost I don't think UNC and Ohio State are bad teams but a bit premature to be a top 5 team. Both teams are going in with the majority of freshmen and sophmores. I don't understand how teams like Ohio State, UNC and other very VERY young teams could be rank that high.
> 
> Mid-majors are doing one thing right and that is to give pay raises, long term extensions and locking up coaches to make sure they stay with that team. Of course there will be a few coaches that will leave for the riches of the big conferences but many are staying within the program. It will definitely help the program out in the long run.
> 
> How many more years do we give the Valley to finally say, "okay we get it, you are as good as advertised"?


I dont know, the polls were put together well in the top. This year most teams will be relying on freshmans and sopmores not just the tarheels and buckeyes(kansas,Arizona,Washington,Duke,Georgia Tech). The buckeyes return most of their players from that big ten championship team and add one of the most prized freshman ever along with other great freshman. The tarheels return everyone minus noel from a team that was very good last season and add a great class. If the buckeyes and tarheels were not chosen in the top 5 who would you choose? Alabama? Wisconsin? Pitt?
It has always been like this return players add recruits = top preseason team

The funny thing is the veteran teams have been inconsistent as well maybe even more (Wisconsin, Georgetown, and even florida)


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Wisconsin hasn't really been inconsistent. We just lost to a very good MVC team by 2 points. We beat Auburn by 14, Florida State by 15. In fact, aside from Missouri State (a solid experienced team who really should have made the tournament last year), no one has come within 12 points of Wisconsin.


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## E-MO_416 (Oct 17, 2006)

by bad, i thought wisconsin lost twice this year. Almost did today against winthrop, there a good team though, they played us tough.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Winthrop is always pretty tough. Their big guy Bradshaw from New Zealand is a good ball player and Torrell Martin (who seemingly has been there forever) has a solid stroke.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Washington State knocked off Gonzaga tonight. It was a home game for the Cougars and they stormed the court 

It's an upset, but Wazzou is one of those teams that can beat any team in the country with that deliberate and efficient style of play; and of course Bennett teams always play insane defense.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Nimreitz said:


> Washington State knocked off Gonzaga tonight. It was a home game for the Cougars and they stormed the court
> 
> It's an upset, but Wazzou is one of those teams that can beat any team in the country with that deliberate and efficient style of play; and of course Bennett teams always play insane defense.


Yeah, I was worried about this game coming in. Washington State always gives good teams trouble when they come into that place to play. Last year they beat Washington twice and the year before that they beat Arizona when they had Salim and Frye.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

ND beats Alabama. An upset, yes. But ND has been flying under the radar. I think they will be rank around the 20s next week.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I don't think the MVC has the infrastructure, prestige, to stay at the top that long... they will stay a good conference but not an elite top 6 conference that they are proving to be again thi
> 
> There run is probably similar to that of the A-10 in the 90's. They had a nice run, but the programs were just not big enough to be consistently at the top of the country (UMass, Temple, Rhode Island....)
> 
> To win on the MVC you have recruit really good.. you need to find gems, and there is less room for error. Long term they can't be as successful as a power conference... but in given period they can have 3-4 teams have the right coaching formula and have good players to make it an elite conference,



Noboa, no I definitely wouldn't compare them to the top teams of the big conferences. The powerhouses of basketball that is usually a top 20 year in and year out. I guess I am talking about comparing top mid majors with the big conferences mid to lower range teams. 

The reason why I'm saying, when will MVC gets the credibility in the NCAA selection committee? Some teams from mid majors deserve an at large bid but usually don't because of their weak conference and SoS. 

I just think the last 3-4 years parity has been closing the gap between mid majors and big confernces middle of the road teams. I will never think that mid majors can get the top 150 prospects consistently but it looks like certain teams are creeping up to the top.

Gonzaga is already one of the teams.

Hofstra has a chance if they can recruit good players around the NY metro area.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

thatsnotgross said:


> ND beats Alabama. An upset, yes. But ND has been flying under the radar. I think they will be rank around the 20s next week.



Notre Dame beat Maryland in D.C, beat Alabama


and their only loss was to Butler @ the time it was bad loss, now its not so bad


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

*Don't call it an upset...*

they've been here before. :biggrin:

Wichita St. won again tonight. Going into the season I thought they would only win 1 or 2 of those tough Saturday games but they managed to win all 4 with the win over Wyoming. 

They looked great in the 1st half but in the start of the second half they looked tentative and seemed to be losing their confidence as a team. They managed to regain themselves, though, and won the game going away.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: Don't call it an upset...*

against who?


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: Don't call it an upset...*



TM said:


> against who?


Wyoming


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Don't call it an upset...*

I would love to see Wichita State vs Kansas sometime.


I think KSU, WSU, and KU will someday be just as good as UNC, Duke, NCState close poxmity rivarlies


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

*Re: Don't call it an upset...*



kansasalumn said:


> I think KSU, WSU, and KU will someday be just as good as UNC, Duke, NCState close poxmity rivarlies


Ummm...no...


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: Don't call it an upset...*

:laugh: @ apel


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: Don't call it an upset...*



kansasalumn said:


> I would love to see Wichita State vs Kansas sometime.
> 
> 
> I think KSU, WSU, and KU will someday be just as good as UNC, Duke, NCState close poxmity rivarlies


There's an equal chance that these teams will have rivalries like Buffalo, Niagara and Canisius. 

Not saying they are at that level. But comparing them to the Raleigh-Durham triad is just as ridiculous.


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