# NBA Conspiracy Theory



## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

Do you think there is a league-wide "conspiracy" (for lack of a better term) to help certain teams?

I do.

Now, I don't think it is anything covert or illegal, rather, it is more of a silent understanding - a nod and a wink. *Just like certain players get better calls, so too do certain teams.* I simply think the NBA and all involved know where there bread is buttered. 

Which teams make a better Finals -

Lakers - Celtics, or
Spurs - Pistons?

We all know the answer. So whether it is a missed call or a phantom foul, I fully expect that things will break, ever so slightly, for the Lakers and the Celtics.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

if there was one then we wouldnt ever see the spurs in the finals...the most bring team ever hahahaah


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

NBA = only slightly more credible than wrestling.


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## AudieNorris (Jun 29, 2006)

MARIS61 said:


> NBA = only slightly more credible than wrestling.


I think donaghy made wrestling more credible. Only difference between NBA and WWF is that the NBA pretends to be legit. It sure seems scripted.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

like giving 2 northwestern team the #1 and 2 picks in the draft...


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

Ron Mexico said:


> like giving 2 northwestern team the #1 and 2 picks in the draft...


No, its not that obvious, and couldn't be (though Google what happened for the Knicks in 1985 - the frozen envelope), instead, its just that things break slightly a certain way, when possible, and it is often enough to make a difference.


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## AudieNorris (Jun 29, 2006)

Ron Mexico said:


> like giving 2 northwestern team the #1 and 2 picks in the draft...


That's the commish's feeble attempt to make things less obvious.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Ron Mexico said:


> like giving 2 northwestern team the #1 and 2 picks in the draft...


What, you think he didn't bump the Sonics up a few notches to help out his good buddy Clay? :bsmile:

Why else would he keep the fact that he and Bennett were personal friends secret? Full disclosure? Transparency? Who needs 'em! :clown:


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## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

NBA conspiracy theories are abundant.

One famous one is that the lotto was rigged the year the Knicks won the right to select Patrick Ewing.

Clyde Drexler has maintained for years that the NBA ordered the officials to make certain his Portland team did not win.

David Stern is no stranger to backroom deals. Evidence continues to come out that the plan has been to move the Sonics to Oklahoma from the git go.

OK. We all know the league likes the large market teams to dominate. Seeing one of the flagship franchises (the Lakers) going down the drain over the last few seasons probably caused Stern at least a few sleepless nights.

Well, all of a sudden the Lakers got a lot better in a hurry when the were given the gift of Pau Gasol. Everybody wondered how the Lakers were able to get the Grizz to bite on their offer of Kwame Brown and spare change. Maybe the commish had a role in this. Maybe the commish promised them a quantity of additional lottery balls. It will be interesting to see if the Grizz wind up with a pick that is much higher than expected in this years draft....or next years. Ya know, kinda like we got last year. About a year after Stern visited with Paul Allen in Portland and left proclaiming the league would never let the Blazer franchise go down the tubes and he would do everything in his power to help Paul bring back Rip City.


Thread I started on this topic may be viewed at
http://www.clubblazers.com/forums/the-laker-conspiracy-t474.html


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## Hector (Nov 15, 2004)

Please correct these numbers if they are wrong: The Bulls had the 13th worst record and a 1.6% chance of winning the lottery. They are the 3rd largest media market after New York and Los Angeles. The league is full of surprises.

100 / 1.6 = 62.5
Every 62 years this should happen.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

so what are the "conspiracies" in favor of???

marketing???

money???

what???

cuz if its marketing then the new york knicks or lakers or celtics should always be winngin the championships

if money then why wouldnt lebron be winning every year...he is easily the most marketable player ...or shaq maybe


come on now...if there was a conspiracy then new york would be killin every year...media capital of the world...come on dude


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

I think refs get caught up in the moment at times. I think they try to avoid suspending people during they playoffs (this year). The NBA is my favorite sport and I dont/wont think its all a sham until there is legitimate eviedence (paper trail). I also think people (including me) on forums like these tend to be more cynical.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

you have to tell me who is involved in the conspiracy, and what do they have to gain and lose. 

as i've said before, the "league" is simply the office that represents the interest of the individual franchise owners, who collectively make up the nba. david stern is a salaried employee of the nba. the refs are salaried employees. and game fixing / manipulation is illegal. so, who is orchestrating this conspiracy, and why?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

as for the '85 draft, why would an accounting firm partake in illegal activity (fixing the draft) for the nba?


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

kflo said:


> as for the '85 draft, why would an accounting firm partake in illegal activity (fixing the draft) for the nba?



You might as well ask that question of the accounting firms that caught up in the Enron debacle.

BTW, "conspiracy" in this context doesn't mean telling the refs to favor certain teams/players. It just means *not punishing* refs who make biased calls against certain teams/players. The refs, being human, already have biases, it is just a matter of which ones they can get away with.

Tag Sheed with a dozen bogus "T's" and Stern looks the other way. Pick a fight with Tim Duncan once, and get suspended.


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## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

kflo said:


> as for the '85 draft, why would an accounting firm partake in illegal activity (fixing the draft) for the nba?



If accountants are so friggin honest, then why do so many of them go to jail for embezzlement?


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## AudieNorris (Jun 29, 2006)

ucatchtrout said:


> If accountants are so friggin honest, then why do so many of them go to jail for embezzlement?


Now this is just an irrational statement and I typically don't enjoy accountants. Do you actually have the ratios of accountants that goto jail versus a welder or a hair stylist? My guess is that they have a better than average going to jail ratio than the general public based on the fact that accountants are capable of predicting the probability of getting away with their crime. This is usually a difficult thing to do for a run-of-the-mill auto thief or a fast-food employee tapping the till.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I think a lot of the idea of superstar calls and stuff like that comes down to probabilities and perception. Let's say a ref makes a bad call 1 out of 25 times. If a superstar (Kobe, Bron, etc..) has the ball in their hands much more frequently, then it is more likely that they will be involved in the play when when that 1 bad call happens. Plus, most superstars are stars because they are aggressive on the offensive end, so they are taking the ball in strong into areas where bad calls are more likely to happen. There is just a greater chance that a star will get a bad call made for them because of the position they put themselves in. Bad calls more frequently go in favor of the offensive player, which is where most superstars are most obvious and aggressive. 

I play poker on the internet where many people claim that the game are fixed. And when I first started, I was thinking they might be right, I would get a pair of Kings, and someone else would get Aces, I would make a straight, and someone else would get a flush. But as time went on, I decided to pay attention to all the times that my Kings held up, and actually started recording hand histories so I could reflect on how I played. As I paid closer attention to what hands I won, instead of what hands I lost, and compared those hands to the percentages one would expect from random dealing, I began to notice that the observed percentages were near identical to expected percentages. It was simply perception that led me and millions of poker players to the belief that the hands were being manipulated. Since then, I have read detailed breakdowns by math/poker experts that demonstrate this exact phenomenon, yet you still hear all sorts of poker players claim the games are fixed. 

I think that Basketball is very similar, except that there are not numbers to compare so we can't prove/disprove results. Sure, there will be some biases from certain refs, but I personally doubt there are any league wide mandates directing the manipulation in favor of certain teams. Perception is too fickle.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

I don't think any shady stuff is goin' down. It would be to hard to cover up.


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## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

AudieNorris said:


> Now this is just an irrational statement and I typically don't enjoy accountants. Do you actually have the ratios of accountants that goto jail versus a welder or a hair stylist? My guess is that they have a better than average going to jail ratio than the general public based on the fact that accountants are capable of predicting the probability of getting away with their crime. This is usually a difficult thing to do for a run-of-the-mill auto thief or a fast-food employee tapping the till.


Oh bull****. You have no idea what you are talking about. White collar crime is rampant in this country. Just because someone is an accountant doesn't mean they aren't stupid enough to steal. People steal for all sorts of reasons. Gambling addictions are prevalent amongst white collar criminals.

The U.S. Department of Justice estimates that employee theft is growing by as much as 15 percent each year. According to an Auditors Inc. survey of 1,000 certified public accountants, as many as 40 percent of small-business owners are embezzlement victims.

One-third of all business bankruptcies are due to embezzlement.

And at least 20 percent of all business failures are the direct result of embezzlement.


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## AudieNorris (Jun 29, 2006)

ucatchtrout said:


> Oh bull****. You have no idea what you are talking about. White collar crime is rampant in this country. Just because someone is an accountant doesn't mean they aren't stupid enough to steal. People steal for all sorts of reasons. Gambling addictions are prevalent amongst white collar criminals.
> 
> The U.S. Department of Justice estimates that employee theft is growing by as much as 15 percent each year. According to an Auditors Inc. survey of 1,000 certified public accountants, as many as 40 percent of small-business owners are embezzlement victims.
> 
> ...


I guess that proves it! I have no idea what i am saying! Look at the cases that actually go through our courts (or oregon state pen). They are not "filled" with white-collar criminals, although there are some. They are filled with stupid people doing stupid things, including accountants. 

Back to NBA. Unfortunately, due to several reasons the NBA is a shadow of its former self. Most teams loose money and are boring to watch. It was dealt a huge blow when a ref was on the take. It is something that many will walk away from and never come back. The game got crapped on.


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## Hector (Nov 15, 2004)

Why would an accountant do something illegal? Because either 1) he's paid well or 2) he believes in the cause. In this case, it would be 1. Depending upon how major the client is to them, some accountants "miss" the client's shady transactions, in order to preserve their relationship with their client. If the accountant says no, the client will just shop for an accountant who will approve the transaction. I have sat at a table and prepared someone's taxes, and when it doesn't come out in their favor because I enforce an IRS rule, they say they will take it to someone else and not answer the question in the same way next time. Then they leave.

Now in this case, I don't know that anyone weighted the ping pong balls. I just know that the 2 biggest oddities in lottery history benefited 2 of the 3 biggest markets (NY Ewing and now Chicago) and not small markets.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

This is a hilarious thread. That is all.


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

GOD said:


> I think a lot of the idea of superstar calls and stuff like that comes down to probabilities and perception.


It's not. I once read a book by an old-time ref, I think maybe Mendy Rudolph. *He fully admitted that superstars get the calls*, and said the reason why is because these are the guys people pay to see, its a business, they are better and can do things other players can't, and so deserve and get the benefit of the doubt.

Is it so hard to imagine that teams are treated similarly?

And as for the Patrick Ewing thing - *if pulling envelopes out of a hat is so fair, why did the league go to ping pong balls the next year*, hmmmmmmmm?


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Oldmangrouch said:


> What, you think he didn't bump the Sonics up a few notches to help out his good buddy Clay? :bsmile:
> 
> Why else would he keep the fact that he and Bennett were personal friends secret? *Full disclosure? Transparency? Who needs 'em!* :clown:


funny you mention that

STOMP


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

Does anyone else here find it amazing that 40% of us here, the most die-hard of NBA fans, think that the league is not on the up and up? 

That is amazing!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

When a shot goes into the air to win a game, Stern is powerless. Shot making decides who wins, not the refs. If the league is fixed, why do we have finals like Spurs-Nets, Spurs-Cavs, Spurs-Pistons? Why would the league fix those matchups?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

KingSpeed said:


> When a shot goes into the air to win a game, Stern is powerless. Shot making decides who wins, not the refs. If the league is fixed, why do we have finals like Spurs-Nets, Spurs-Cavs, Spurs-Pistons? Why would the league fix those matchups?


There's a lot more to a game then just a shot. I've seen many potential runs being stopped by bogus calls to say that the refs couldn't determine the outcome of a game.

That said, I don't think there's any kind of conspiracy theory.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

I've never heard anyone claim the whole thing is 'fixed' as in 'scripted.' But I think a person has to be willfully blind not to see the bias toward certain players, and the bias toward certain teams in certain situations. When Charles Barkley predicted a Lakers victory at half time of game 1, I think he did so because he knew the refs would keep the Lakers in it. And if the score was close at the end, the Lakers were likely to win. How many times do players have to foul Kobe's elbow with their throats before the light goes on for some people? Who really believes the overwhelming 'home court advantage' is the result of players sleeping in their own beds, or shooting at their 'familiar' rims (tip: the Blazers don't practice on the Rose Garden court)? An official doesn't have to blatantly throw a game to affect the score. When team 'A' is beating the home team by 20 points, all it takes is a quick whistle here, swallowing the whistle there, a nip here, a tuck there, and voila...momentum change. They don't have to completely hose one team over the other every time down the court, merely give one team a nudge up and the other a nudge down. In the end, skill and chance are still involved; and it is always up to the players to perform or not when given that chance. But that doesn't mean a biased ref can't put team 'A' or player 'B' in a better or worse situation than they would have been in without the BS. I'm sorry, but I've just seen too many games in the 40 years I've been watching where a bizarre stretch of "bad" officiating has altered the course of a game.


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## HAAK72 (Jun 18, 2007)

The "fix" is in...


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## drinking_rogue (May 4, 2008)

I wish the NBA could fire all of their refs and start fresh.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

dwood615 said:


> if there was one then we wouldnt ever see the spurs in the finals...the most bring team ever hahahaah


Ya and David Stern probably loves fans like you. After all he woulden't want to be to obvious. No seriosly, With the NBA haveing the worst officiating out of these four sports Hockey, Football, Baseball and even college hoops. David Stern does pretty damn good with his NBA.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I believe that stars get the calls, but thats been going on for years. However, how have the Spurs won 4 championships in the last 10 years and the Pistons got one too. Neither of those teams have players that fans will pay just to go see them play. Tim Duncan is a star, but far from a face of the league type guy.

On that note, I still think it is beneficial to have some teams as perennially relevant. Like the Lakers for example, they are either loved or hated and get ratings whenever they play. Same for the Yankees, Cowboys and Red Wings in their respective sports.


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## Hector (Nov 15, 2004)

STOMP said:


> funny you mention that
> 
> STOMP


Good article.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> I believe that stars get the calls, but thats been going on for years. However, how have the Spurs won 4 championships in the last 10 years and the Pistons got one too. Neither of those teams have players that fans will pay just to go see them play. Tim Duncan is a star, but far from a face of the league type guy.


Detroit is a top 10 market. They generate a lot of money for the league... lots more then say the Kings or Blazers.

During Stern's 33 year reign, other then the Spurs has there been another champion that wasn't a top 10 market? There are 30 teams in the league. The Spurs championships have come on the heals of league drawing considerable heat from the average fan over the officiating in the early part of this decade. What further drives my suspicions is how bad the networks now are at showing replays of crucial plays... that ticks me off to no end.

I found this headline funny this morn...

STOMP


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## RW#30 (Jan 1, 2003)

The NBA is my favorite sport and I am a season ticket holder. That said I believe the game is influenced. An average game decided by 5-8 points or so. We have all seen how 2 bad or suspicious call can change a game. Bringing up NY to defuse the theory makes the league happy. It is like the intel vs. AMD. Longest AMD around Intel doesn't have to worry about the SEC.

Someone said Stern is a paid employee and just represent the owners.That statement only half of the truth. The owners are like McDonald's owners..only franchises/board members. Stern is the CEO. His job is to make money. So to turn a cheek when a call made and the league benefit, that is not a big deal to Stern. He has a long/documented history of questionable business moves from the article posted earlier in this link.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

just caught the league ad promoting the upcoming finals. It featured a photo of Red celebrating with Havlicek and then Riley and Magic in a big embrace. I'll be keeping an eye out for one featuring the Pistons and Spurs celebrating their championships...

STOMP


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## iversonfan 349 (Oct 15, 2006)

I dont beleive it because alot of people hate the spurs but they get to the finals.


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## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

Absolutely.


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## RW#30 (Jan 1, 2003)

How can you say no after Fisher's foul on Barry. that no call was ridiculous. This cost the Spurs the series. What a joke. David Stern :azdaja::banned::banned::mad2:


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

High profile teams with stars like Kobe are going to get the benefit of the doubt in game winning situations. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, just the human effect. It's all entertainment anyway.


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

Who can doubt it now? *Donaghy admits that the 2002 WCF was rigged for the Lakers against the Kings.
*
This is very bad.

"Donaghy also told the FBI that two referees allegedly wanted a May 2002 playoff series go seven games and ignored foul calls and made up others to swing the outcome." - Newsday


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

It certainly looks pretty damning ... and when you look at Stern's possible collusion with the Clay Bennett group to move the Sonics to OKC it looks all the more tawdry.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Stevenson said:


> Do you think there is a league-wide "conspiracy" (for lack of a better term) to help certain teams?
> 
> I do.
> 
> ...


Right, but we DID have a Spurs-Pistons Finals in 2005. Plus, there could've been a Lakers-Celtics finals in 02, but it was Lakers-Nets instead. Why didn't the league fix the Celtics to beat the Nets.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

KingSpeed said:


> Right, but we DID have a Spurs-Pistons Finals in 2005. Plus, there could've been a Lakers-Celtics finals in 02, but it was Lakers-Nets instead. Why didn't the league fix the Celtics to beat the Nets.


still counting their money from the 2000 and 2001 finals? That or lying low after all the scrutiny/criticism following those debacles. 

STOMP


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## RW#30 (Jan 1, 2003)

KingSpeed said:


> Right, but we DID have a Spurs-Pistons Finals in 2005. Plus, there could've been a Lakers-Celtics finals in 02, but it was Lakers-Nets instead. Why didn't the league fix the Celtics to beat the Nets.


The Nets were the better team and bigger market.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

As to why the Spurs would be promoted by the NBA...INTERNATIONAL STARS. If you have paid any attention at all to David Stern's wishes for the league over the past decade it has been to go international. He wasn't concerned with us in the states at that time...he wanted more. He already had us. So he promoted the most internationally diverse team and gave the rest of the world a reason to watch and dream about the NBA. Now apparently he is once again concerned about taking care of business at home. The obvious target is all of us suckers who lived through the Magic and Bird 80's...and now look...here come the Bulls!!! 

Too obvious David...too obvious.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Still waiting around for that Memphis vs. Milwaukee NBA Final someday. Now that would be something.. but no way in hell would it ever.
Of course the NBA would like to see other franchises in the Finals more than others in their premier event of the year.
Frankly, it kind of scares me now with our chances of winning it all. I'm banking now that our star power of Roy, Aldridge and ESPECIALLY Oden will be enough in the league's eyes that we can be marketable team in a small market.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

TP3 said:


> As to why the Spurs would be promoted by the NBA...INTERNATIONAL STARS. If you have paid any attention at all to David Stern's wishes for the league over the past decade it has been to go international. He wasn't concerned with us in the states at that time...he wanted more. He already had us. So he promoted the most internationally diverse team and gave the rest of the world a reason to watch and dream about the NBA. Now apparently he is once again concerned about taking care of business at home. The obvious target is all of us suckers who lived through the Magic and Bird 80's...and now look...here come the Bulls!!!
> 
> Too obvious David...too obvious.


Hmmm, doubtful. Duncan is from Virgin Islands, not exactly a basketball hotbed. Tony Parker is from France, they've always been into basketball, I'm not sure him winning the championship drew more French fans to the NBA. 

If that were the case, don't you think the Suns who are just as international would have at least sniffed the finals? Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, Leandro Barbosa, Sean Marks, Pat Burke....

I don't buy it.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Here's a link to the recent Donaghy story, fwiw:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8231176/Report:-Donaghy-says-refs-fixed-playoff-series



> Court documents filed by Donaghy's lawyer detailed the "inner-workings" of a plot in which top league executives used referees to manipulate the games. Donaghy claims two referees were "company men" whose job was to extend a playoff series in 2002 to a seventh game.
> 
> The documents did not name the series, but the Lakers-Kings Western Conference finals was the only series in 2002 that went to a seventh game, with the Lakers winning both Game 6 and 7 to reach the NBA Finals.
> 
> ...





> "Our big guys get 20 fouls tonight and Shaq gets four? You tell me how the game went," Kings coach Rick Adelman said after the game, according to SportsTicker. "It's just the way it is. Obviously, they got the game called the way they wanted to get it called."





> Donaghy also said refs broke league rules by routinely fraternizing with players, coaches and team management and that the resulting inappropriate relationships may have influenced the outcomes of games. He claims one general manager in 2004 made a game-day phone call to referees to encourage them to call more personal fouls against an opponent.
> 
> Donaghy claims referees have accepted autographs, merchandise and meals from team representatives. He said one official used a team's facility to exercise and another played tennis with an NBA coach.


pretty darned ugly.


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