# Are the Suns the least lucky team in the history of the NBA?



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

1. Lost coinflip that would have gotten them Lew Alcindor and a bunch of championships and probably the best ever team.
Lew Alcindor, Paul Silas, Conny Hawkins, Dennis Johnson were on that team I believe.

2. Lost coinflip that would have gotten them David Robinson.

3. NEVER had a #1 draftpick in 36 years or so.

4. John Paxson 3 in the 93 finals.

5. Houston's game winner in game 7 of the 94 playoffs.

6. Houston's game winner in game 7 of the 95 playoffs.

7. Jason Kidd and Penny Hardaway backcourt 2004 playing great for a stretch and then losing Penny who dominated in the playoffs and suffered a freak injury.

8. Randy Livingston crushing the knee of his teammate Tom Gugliotta who was an allstar and Dream Team selection at that point early in near max contract.

9. Tom Gugliotta suffering a stroke shortly before.

10. Antonio McDyess making the dumbest decision of his life and the Nuggets getting away with tampering when we had a GREAT team set up for the future.

11. Rex Chapman forced to retire early when he was a great player.

12. Kevin Johnson always held back by injuries.

13. Richard Dumas a young rising star banned from the league because of drug abuse.

14. Oliver Miller wasting all his talent for crispy cream.

15. Kevin Johnson playing injured and Ceballos not playing in the 93 finals.

16. Lost game 5 of the 75-76 finals in triple over time giving Boston a decisive 3-2 lead.

If we sign Kobe we probably go on a 20-0 run and Kobe tears his ACL while watching TV.

Even this season. Zarko needed hernia surgery that forced him to sit out training camp. Danny Fortson intentionally fouls Zarko when he played real well and broke his wrist.
Amare lands on Paul Pierce foot and suffered a severe sprain.

Lead the league BY FAR in lost games within a certain point margin, think it was 5 and we have about twice as many losses by less than 5 points than any other team.


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Compare our luck to other teams.

Cleveland gets the #1 pick in the year local product Lebron James enters the draft.
San Antonio sucks a year and gets the #1 pick to get Tim Duncan.
Orlando comes into the league and immediately gets #1 picks for Shaquille O'Neal and Chris Webber who they traded for #2 Penny Hardaway and three future firsts.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

No, by a landslide. Every team has down years. The Suns were not the only team that had to deal with tough injuries, the out of shape players, the problematic players, the Bulls, the Rockets. I think the Suns is a successful organization. It is hard to see a successful organization as 'unluckiest'.


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## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

It's an entertaining collection. The irony is that the Suns bad luck was as much a function of their good management - getting into the championship game, generally making the playoffs, etc. that makes the bad luck seem so bad.

No one accused the Clippers or the Cavs of having a history of bad luck. The Clippers have a record of futility that can only come from having an idiot as an owner. The Cavs are almost as bad.

The Cavs did lose in a seventh game against the Bulls on a despiration shot by Jordan that would have sent them to the Championships - but most of their history has been marred by one idiotic move after another. Just look at their moves in 2002. They traded Andre Miller for Darius Miles - who stunk until being traded to Portland. They had the 6th pick in the draft and took Dajuan Wagner ahead of Nene, Wilcox, Stoudemire, and Butler. 

Wagner is a total bust while even Wilcox has started to show some talent. Cleveland had some luck in getting LeBron, but they need a lot of luck to make up for a huge amount of dumb.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>azirishmusic</b>!
> they need a lot of luck to make up for a huge amount of dumb.


Well said. Even with all that bad luck, think of all the draft picks we've had in the mid-late first round that turned out so well.. You could say some of it was good foresight, but NOBODY thought Marion, Amare, and Finley would turn out to be the players they are.. We've probably been the best drafting team in the NBA, when you take into account where we've picked from..


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>azirishmusic</b>!
> Just look at their moves in 2002. They traded Andre Miller for Darius Miles - who stunk until being traded to Portland. They had the 6th pick in the draft and took Dajuan Wagner ahead of Nene, Wilcox, Stoudemire, and Butler.
> 
> Wagner is a total bust while even Wilcox has started to show some talent. Cleveland had some luck in getting LeBron, but they need a lot of luck to make up for a huge amount of dumb.


'

You have to look at the fact Cleveland picked Boozer in the 2nd round, which turned out to be a total steal. So that draft year in the end turned out to be a success. And as a player, Wagner has done as much as Wilcox, so saying Wilcox has "shown talent" when his numbers really aren't better than Wagner's makes little sense. Wagner needs to show more but if Wilcox has shown talent, so has he.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Wilcox actually filled in brilliantly for Brand while he was out, and has had some great flashes. All Wagner has shown is that he can score 15ppg on 35% shooting if he has the green light..


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## Snicka (Dec 29, 2003)

A very good read, though I think fans of many other teams could put a list like that together.


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

how could you possibly call dajuan wagner a bust?

he has been plagued by injuries in his first two years in the leagues, causing him to get late starts in the season with little time to mold with his teammates. also, he fits in perfectly with the cavs lineup as it is right now, since his position of choice is shooting guard.

lebron can play point on offense, with dajuan playing the 2. then on defense lebron guards the opposing 2, while dajuan guards the opposing 1. 

wagner's shooting percentage has been low, but that's because he only gets to play if he scores, which causes him to force shots hoping that he puts a string of them together. if he is given the starting spot his fg% will go up. (and he was playing out of position, injured, and had to create for himself everytime down court in his rookie season)


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> Wilcox actually filled in brilliantly for Brand while he was out, and has had some great flashes. All Wagner has shown is that he can score 15ppg on 35% shooting if he has the green light..


And Wagner had flashes too. At this point, both players have only shown flashes so to argue for one over the other is rather inconclusive and pointless. Wagner had a few stretches around 17-20 ppg for 4-5 game stretches. Most players have hot streaks. It's up for both to become consistent.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Celtics are the best team in the NBA and somehow, end up with the first pick in the NBA Draft. The reigning champions take Len Bias who many had considered the best prospect ever (better than Jordan), who promptly dies. The Celtics haven't won since. 

Also, Reggie Lewis appears to be the man for the future after the Big Three retire, but he collapses on the court and dies a month or two later.

Hey, at least your guys live.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

The Grizzlies...'nuff said.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

There are so many things that were before my time or I simply forgot.

For example Danny Mannings injuries. 18/6 off the bench until Joe Kleine fell on him in practice.

1979 ... Phoenix up on Seattle 3-2 in the Western Conference finals. Seattle wins last two games, the series, then sweeps the Bullets (now Wizards).

Everytime we were so close to several titles and our luck always kept us from getting one.

We should have won in 92-93 with a healthy lineup. We should have beat Houston instead of twice losing in 7 even after being up in the series 2-0 and 3-1 or something. If only Richard Dumas could have stayed clean for thos years.

And the Lew Alcindor coin flip definately cost us several championships and cost us being indentified with the leagues history leading scorer.

The Celtics at least had enough positive luck too to win some championships that they can show of now. We have nothing only the 5th or now 6th best total winning percentage of all time.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pure Scorer</b>!
> how could you possibly call dajuan wagner a bust?
> 
> he has been plagued by injuries in his first two years in the leagues, causing him to get late starts in the season with little time to mold with his teammates. also, he fits in perfectly with the cavs lineup as it is right now, since his position of choice is shooting guard.
> ...



exactly, wat a great post. welcome to the board. 

also back to the suns, we have been so unluck that playoffs kidd broke his ankle didnt he? and penny had to take over, and they brang kj back outta retirement.

i dont think backcourt 2000 actually got a chance to play. lol im sure orlando fans can relate to this quite well. kinda sux huh.

man that paxton shot was so blooody bull****... bloody jordan dammit. lol well i guess thats why hes the greatest (debatable).

kobe probably wont even get to wear his suns jersey, if we sign him something bad is bound to happen....book it.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

if we're talking pure luck, and not injuries or poor drafting or losing series we "should" have won, it's difficult for any team to compare our losing coin flips for Kareem and David Robinson (and ending up with neal wulk and armon gilliam as our consolations). i mean, that's nothing BUT luck . . . bad luck.

anyone think that kareem/hawkins/silas team (dj wasn't a sun yet) wouldn't have won championships?

anyone think that adding david robinson to kj, majerle, and tc wouldn't have resulted in a championship or two?


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

And we could still have traded for Barkley.

David Robinson
Charles Barkley
Cedric Ceballos
Dan Majerle
Kevin Johnson

Bench: Chambers, Ainge, Dumas, West, Miller, Perry....


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Lol, Say u sign Kobe i bet the judge will ring the Phoenix front office and say

"I'm sorry to inform you, but Kobe Bryant will not be able to play basketball ever again, being convicted of rape."
Then he'll whisper non-refundable (bout Kobes contract)


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

There has been quite a bit of heart ache for Suns fans, but they have had some good luck along the way too.

In '75-'76, they finished a whole 2 games over .500. Never had home court advantage.

They defeated the Defending World Champion Warriors in a hard fought 7 game series. They won twice on the road in that series, (game 2 and game 7). Don't forget that the Warriors were the best team in the league that year.

They were pretty lucky to even be in the finals. Game 5 was an incredible game. Had they won, who knows what would have happened. Don't forget that the suns were getting their asses handed to them in the first half of that game. They were pretty lucky to fight back and tie it up.

Also, another stroke of luck, in the 1990 playoffs, the Suns defeated the Lakers in 5 games, which was not expected at all. This was a huge upset.

I'm sure I could think of other positive strokes of luck the Suns have had.


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## PhatDaddy3100 (Jun 16, 2002)

YEah suns have bad luck, losing teh chance on Lou Al Cinder is enough evidence in itself.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> There has been quite a bit of heart ache for Suns fans, but they have had some luck along the way too.
> 
> In '75-'76, they finished a whole 2 games over .500. Never had home court advantage.
> ...


What has that to do with luck?


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> What has that to do with luck?


:laugh:

So if you beat the Warriors or the Lakers in a really close series then it has nothing to do with luck, but if you lose to the Rockets in a really close series then you're unlucky?


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> What has that to do with luck?


All I'm trying to say is while there have been some unlucky turns for this franchise, there have been a few positive strokes of luck as well.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> ...


The Rockets beat us twice in a row in game 7 on desperation shots in 2 seasons when the Suns were supposed to be the big favorite to win it all.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

i don't think the winning or losing of any series has anything to do with luck (unless unfortunate injuries resulted in the won or loss). but there is no doubting those two lost coin flips . . . the closest the suns have ever come to having a real center on their roster . . . no team has had PURE BAD LUCK like losing those two coin flips. if another coin flip ever comes our way we should just win by default.


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