# I believe you have to project Deng as an allstar



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I finally had the chance this evening to watch a game closely and concentrate on Deng, looking for how he has reachead early success this season. I've come to the conclusion that Deng's success -- his roughly twenty high percentage points a game -- is for real, and that we can continue to expect development from him.

Everytime I bring up the Deng allstar question I've gotten similar response: he doesn't look like a traditional star. He doesn't have the ability to take people off the dribble and explode to the hoop or create his own shot like an Iverson, Pierce or even a Ben Gordon. But the thing about Deng is that he works off the ball as well as any small forward in the league. Deng turns the corner around screens like running backs used to turn the corner around defensive lines before the advent of hella' fast defensive ends. Deng takes two steps and he's deceptively fast and long in his ability to create separation from his defender. 

And after he gets the ball, which he almost always catches because he has good hands, he explodes with one or two quick dribbles and has good creativity in the paint -- he never seems to lose his balance. Or he slides back for a jumper that has a slow release but is becoming an accurate weapon. He also has reasonably good vision in these situations and threads some pretty passes. 

I think these are unique skills: usuallly when we see players who have success working off the ball they are jump shooters with lightening quick releases, Reggie Miller or Rip Hamilton for example. This is why, in my opinion, so many here have been reserved in their praise. Deng has a unique skill set and his game doesn't resemble players that we usually consider stars.

As for development and where we can see Deng pick up another five points: he seems to be developing that little catch above the top of the key where he take two steps forward pulls a little shake and raises up for the jumper. It's a move he doesn't look to be completely comfortable in yet, but I bet it will be a killer with in the next year, year and a half. 

As to questions about Deng's defense, I think the complaints have been overblown. It takes time to learn how to be a good defender in the NBA, and Deng wasn't even a perimiter player in college. I think he has the speed and length to be a better defender and it's just going to be a matter of time as he learns how to cover NBA small forwards. Artest wasn't really a good defender until his third season; it's too early to expect the same for Deng.

As to those who have called for Skiles to get canned, in my opinon, Deng has benifitted from Skiles' coaching more than any other player on our team. He has develped a skill set that works perfectly within Skiles' offense and I don't believe he would have the same success if you brought in another coach. I enjoy watching Deng because he has developed all of his three abilites as a pro. Indeed, his skills are very much based on the system the team has run during his tenure.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Deng has looked great in the 4 or 5 games I've watched him this season, including tonight. Driving the lane more, finishing at the rim, and playing w/in the offense. Don't look now but... Deng is now at 18.6 ppg and 5.8 boards a night on a cool 55.6% from the field. 

IMO Deng and Noch should be playing 35 minutes a night, they are our most consistent players bar none.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

that put back dunk was awesome tonight...


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Whoa, sorry to rain on your parade SST but I'm just checking the stats and I realized that Hinrich is shooting a shade over 49% on the season. Deng is blowing up, Noch up to his old tricks, Hinrich shooting at a career-best clip.... and the Bulls are 4-9. Obviously stats don't tell the whole story, sheesh.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

superdave said:


> Whoa, sorry to rain on your parade SST but I'm just checking the stats and I realized that Hinrich is shooting a shade over 49% on the season. Deng is blowing up, Noch up to his old tricks, Hinrich shooting at a career-best clip.... and the Bulls are 4-9. Obviously stats don't tell the whole story, sheesh.


We just have to pull ourselves together on D - that's killing us...


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

superdave said:


> Whoa, sorry to rain on your parade SST but I'm just checking the stats and I realized that Hinrich is shooting a shade over 49% on the season. Deng is blowing up, Noch up to his old tricks, Hinrich shooting at a career-best clip.... and the Bulls are 4-9. Obviously stats don't tell the whole story, sheesh.


The Bulls have had absolutely zero inside presence on defense. It's really tough to win that way. It's going to take a while for Wallace to learn how to play within our team defense and offense -- we just can't expect it overnight.

Edit: I also want to note, that I predicted, and was certainly not alone in this prediction, that the Bulls would win about 48 games this season, but come playoff time they'd be much more prepared to make a deep run than years past. I've seen nothing so far to persuade me that these expectations are out of line. I didn't expect Wallace to have this much trouble out of the gate, but outside of that, we've seen improvement almost across the board. Is this team really that far from a talent standpoint away from being competitive with the best teams in the east? I don't believe so.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

From a statistical standpoint, I think Deng is in the conversation.

However, I do not believe "system players" belong in the all-star game unless their team is in 1st place. The All-Star game is for play makers and to reward winners.

With all that being said, I think Deng is out performing most people's (including my own) expectations this year. Good for him.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

He's reminding me of Shawn Marion in the way he scores a bunch of baskets without having to go one on one. Rarely does he get the ball and score against someone in isolation. He's always cutting to the basket and receiving the ball on the move, or spotting up for open jumpers. He's also a very good rebounder and scores his fair share off putbacks. He would be an all-star playing next to Steve Nash or Jason Kidd.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

My biggest problem with saying he had allstar potential before the season was he never took over parts of games. He has done that so far. It's hard to imagine after the progress he's made the last year at age 21 he won't progress even more.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

All Star? Maybe. I mean, he is a great fit for an All Star game since he plays no D.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Hustle said:


> My biggest problem with saying he had allstar potential before the season was he never took over parts of games. He has done that so far. It's hard to imagine after the progress he's made the last year at age 21 he won't progress even more.


Does anyone else remember in his first season, a first quater against L.A where he went nuts, kept us in 
the game and scored 17 points???? He has done it once, but only once. Hopefully it will come with time. 

People always talk about "the core" as 5-6 players, but to my mind the core has always been
Deng and Hinrich because the contribute both ends of the floor and that's it
I'm waiting and seeing on TT and Thabo and hopefull within the next two years they can come to the party and we have 4 both sides of the court players. But currently we just have two.

Noc is a nice piece but I don't see him as a starter long term.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

darlets said:


> People always talk about "the core" as 5-6 players, but to my mind the core has always been
> *Deng and Hinrich* because the contribute both ends of the floor and that's it
> I'm waiting and seeing on TT and Thabo and hopefull within the next two years they can come to the party and we have 4 both sides of the court players. But currently we just have two.
> 
> Noc is a nice piece but I don't see him as a starter long term.


I agree. Can't say I didn't have BG in there before, but I am really souring on him. I really hope Pax puts together a team where Noch can be our long term 6th man, a little piece of me would die if he left. I have confidence at least one of the rookies will be here for a while, they can already play d but their offensive games need work to say the least.

I also consider the NY pick part of the longterm core.


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## the-asdf-man (Jun 29, 2006)

Hustle said:


> I also consider the NY pick part of the longterm core.



you mean our pick.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

the-asdf-man said:


> you mean our pick.


if you mean our pick that we are going to recieve from NY then yes. By tuesday the Bulls will have a better record even though NY has pulled multiple victories out of their ***, and the bulls have played like ****.

Frye out 3-6 weeks. We'll see how NY holds up with Malik Rose and James as their backup bigs.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is his rebounding. Deng is a very very good rebounder for a SF.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Hustle said:


> if you mean our pick that we are going to recieve from NY then yes. By tuesday the Bulls will have a better record even though NY has pulled multiple victories out of their ***, and the bulls have played like ****.
> 
> Frye out 3-6 weeks. We'll see how NY holds up with Malik Rose and James as their backup bigs.


This is big. Frye was starting to gain form over the past few games.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

A question on Deng for everyone. Does anyone think it is possible for him to play 2 guard, or is he too slow and not good enough handling the ball? If he moved to guard and we slipped a bigger player in at 4 it would help our size disadvantage.

Wallace
Nocioni
Thomas
Deng
Hinrich

Laugh if you want, but I would be willing to try it. Tired of seeing this little back court and little front court!


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Salvaged Ship said:


> A question on Deng for everyone. Does anyone think it is possible for him to play 2 guard, or is he too slow and not good enough handling the ball? If he moved to guard and we slipped a bigger player in at 4 it would help our size disadvantage.
> 
> Wallace
> Nocioni
> ...


I don't see Deng as a realistic shooting guard option. He doesn't have the ball skills or the quickness. I also don't see Deng as a full time power forward. He can rebound like a power forward but he doesn't provide the inside presence that you need from your front line. 

Deng's position isn't in itself a problem; but, I worry about Tyrus Thomas. If Thomas doesn't begin to buy into his role as a power forward, and add some bulk to his frame, there may well not be a role for him on this team.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

I have been impressed with his improvement this season, but I've yet to see anything resembling a consistent isolation game. He's become really good at scoring points within the offense, though, so maybe he can become a Shawn Marion-type allstar.

Deng and Hinrich have both become much better offensive players, but their defense has slipped up to this point.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

I dont know how to explain it, but when I see Deng its not like when you are seeing other allstars. After the game you pick up the stats and he could have a line of 24 points and 10 rebounds but still when you watched the game you werent that impressed. Its hard to explain, maybe because he isnt the main focus of our offence, because we dont run many plays for him, I dunno. He is more like a silent contributor, at least that happens to me when Im watching Deng.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Last night he missed some pretty easy wide open baskets and missed quite a few FT's. If he attacks the basket more and draws fouls, he's on his way to be our go to guy, our consistent scorer, our Paul Pierce. el chapu, you're right, he just does rack up some easy points throughout the game with putback dunks, breakaway layups and while he keeps his man in front (well not so much this year) , I don't see him make the big defensive plays.

I want to see the Deng when he played against Miami last year towards the end of the season. He made his presence felt slashing to the basket before he got whacked.

What he has to do is stop and pop with that stupid jumper. Get to the basket and draw the foul. I think he's strong enough to finish and quick enough to get the and 1.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Lu is: Unconventional.

Lu is: Decisive.

Lu is: My boo.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

He won't be an all-star THIS year. But if the Bulls have success this year and he ends the year at the 20 ppg - 8 rpg clip, then he can definintely make his bid for next year.

Nice to know we FINALLY have a team-developed keeper.

PG - Kirk's the leader @ pg and IMO will be ALOT better over time. 17 ppg & 6 apg for the year sounds about right for him. Once he doesn't have to PLAY SG, he'll be a better player, period. I'd personally love it if we kept Duhon, he seems to be the perfect back-up PG to get to a championship. If he's traded, I won't be very sad though.

SG - Sefolosha's the ANSWER at the combo sg position. He can run the point, slashes to the hole, great passer, getting better at shooting. When he's comfortable in the league, I can see a 16 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg type player in Thabo, next to Kirk. The question now is, will we NEED him to run the PG after Gordon gets axed? (which he WILL, btw). No way is Pax gonna throw big money at another inconsistent player.

SF - Deng is coming into his own, once he gets his post game settled and stops relying on 18 ft jumpers, he'll be one of the better SF's in the entire NBA. Noc is the other factor at SF, as much as I love his game, Deng needs ALL the minutes he can log at the SF position. That's why I'm not against trading him and keeping Noc-lite, Viktor Khyrapa.

PF - Personally, I can't WAIT until P.J. Brown is moved or expires. I don't hate him or anything but I wish we had a STUD at that position. I also can't wait til' Michael Sweetney is packaged, if he doesn,t he still won't be here next season. A 6"8 out-of-shape power forward just doesn't fit well HERE. @ 6"9, I think Tyrus can handle the PF position, but it'll take some time. I personally think he's better suited for the SF position since he's a great perimeter defender and weakside shot-blocker but I'm sure you could interchange him and Deng for the next 5 years at the F position. Hopefully Tyrus grows another inch and adds about 15 lbs of muscle next year. He'll still be a stud but watching LA put up 10 ppg & 6 rpg starting at C for Portland still bothers me a TAD bit. We still have to see what's gonna happen with Tyrus though.

C - Wallace is still capable of putting up those big statline numbers, I just believe he isn't happy and knows we need a more consistent threat on the offensive end. They're litterally like the bears of last year, having to rely on the defense to help them win EVERY game. In THIS NBA, that's not gonna cut it like it used to. I like Malik Allen at the back-up C, he's not great or anything but he helps.

So my core would be Hinrich, Sefolosha, Deng, Thomas, Wallace & Khyrapa (as the 6th man).

Bait : Sweetney, Brown, Duhon, Nocioni, Gordon (I'm sure this group could nab us a PF, give or take a player or two).


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

I'm starting to think in the future Deng=Ceballos with an inclination to play D.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

> Noc-lite, Viktor Khyrapa


does that phrase sicken anyone else. I've said for a while how so many here are overrating Khryapa, he is no where close to a good 6th man.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Hustle said:


> does that phrase sicken anyone else. I've said for a while how so many here are overrating Khryapa, he is no where close to a good 6th man.


Overrating? the kid is good, he's not GREAT but he does some of everything.

I think if u can package Noc + filler (Gordon, Brown, etc.) and u can get back a consistent threat at the PF position, u do it. He's not the shooter or defender Noc is, but I don't think we'll be hurting that MUCH with Vik at the 6th man, especially if we have a scoring PF. Tyrus & Vik off the bench is instant energy and hustle.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Salvaged Ship said:


> A question on Deng for everyone. Does anyone think it is possible for him to play 2 guard, or is he too slow and not good enough handling the ball? If he moved to guard and we slipped a bigger player in at 4 it would help our size disadvantage.


I'm not sure that Lu can't play the 2 or the 4. The problem is that he is such a great fit at SF - more range on his jumper is the only thing preventing him from being the prototypical 3 and his excellent form convinces me that will come in time - that it seems like you wouldn't be getting the most out of him at a different position.


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## Cocoa Rice Krispies (Oct 10, 2004)

I'm loving Deng this year too because of his consistency. As far as I'm concerned, he's earned solid rights to starting SF and all the other pieces like Nocioni should be shifted around him, not the other way around. Roster be damned, I think he's going to be too good at SF to justify messing around with stints at playing him at SG, PF, or whatever.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Some rumblings I have heard are PJ Brown, Deng, and NY's pick to Portland for Randolph. I'm sure as a fan base you all have your opinions on Zach, but he seems to be a changed man, and the one thing he brings to the table is offensive force down low. The Bulls compete for the title for the next several years with him down low IMO.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> *Some rumblings I have heard are PJ Brown, Deng, and NY's pick to Portland for Randolph.* I'm sure as a fan base you all have your opinions on Zach, but he seems to be a changed man, and the one thing he brings to the table is offensive force down low. The Bulls compete for the title for the next several years with him down low IMO.


Link?


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> Some rumblings I have heard are PJ Brown, Deng, and NY's pick to Portland for Randolph. I'm sure as a fan base you all have your opinions on Zach, but he seems to be a changed man, and the one thing he brings to the table is offensive force down low. The Bulls compete for the title for the next several years with him down low IMO.


I cant see Paxson making that deal.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Paxson knows it took the championship bulls 3 first round exits and three more play off exits before making the finals.

I think he sees us 3 years away from contending. Wallace isn't part of content now, but in 3-4 years time.

3 years from now he has:

PG Hinrich
SG Thabo
SF Deng
PF/C Wallace/TT/07 draft pick
6th Noc

That still a very young line up to contend with though, Thabo, Deng, TT and 07 draft pick will all be 24 and under.

If Gordon doesn't improve then him and Brown are out the door before the trade deadline this year for
whatever we can get

Otherwise Brown and someone else. Sweetney is an expiring contract as well.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

sp00k said:


> Link?




I have an insider guy that knows the league and the Blazers in particular..... I know, I know, but it's true. What's humorous is that I got him after I moved to Houston. When we chat he tells me what he has heard. He used to be an NBA writer, and still has connections. All he said was that he heard those names being bantied about. Chicago inquired and Portland told them that's what it would take. Nothing really beyond that, I just thought I'd share.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

sp00k said:


> Link?


It's not true
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/john_paxson.html


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> I have an insider guy that knows the league and the Blazers in particular..... I know, I know, but it's true. What's humorous is that I got him after I moved to Houston. When we chat he tells me what he has heard. He used to be an NBA writer, and still has connections. All he said was that he heard those names being bantied about. Chicago inquired and Portland told them that's what it would take. Nothing really beyond that, I just thought I'd share.


Interesting tid bit. There's no way in hell Paxson gives up that package to get Randolph but it's interesting to hear that we inquired about him.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> Some rumblings I have heard are PJ Brown, Deng, and NY's pick to Portland for Randolph. I'm sure as a fan base you all have your opinions on Zach, but he seems to be a changed man, and the one thing he brings to the table is offensive force down low. The Bulls compete for the title for the next several years with him down low IMO.


That's what I'd ask for if I were the Blazers. Can't see the Bulls thinking about giving it up for a second though. That's arguably the team's two most valuable assets depending on how well NY plays the rest of the season.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Randolph wears a headband. Forget it


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> Some rumblings I have heard are PJ Brown, Deng, and NY's pick to Portland for Randolph. I'm sure as a fan base you all have your opinions on Zach, but he seems to be a changed man, and the one thing he brings to the table is offensive force down low. The Bulls compete for the title for the next several years with him down low IMO.


Yuck.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Salvaged Ship said:


> Randolph wears a headband. Forget it




No he doesn't. Nate McMillan doesn't allow anyone on the team to wear a headband. He wore one before Nate got to Portland however.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Bump.

It's exciting times for we Bulls fans. I now more than ever can say with an absolutely straight face (see Thabo threads) that I believe Deng is the star we have been waiting for. He simply is the best forward in the league at moving without the ball around the hoop. It's been a long time coming since we've had a player with a transcendent skill.

And now we get to enjoy the ride; we get to see Deng teach -- by simply using his skilll along side his teammates -- the other players how to use this ability. A little while ago, we debated whether Jordan made the players around him better. I staunchly argued that he did, even thought he wasn't really a good teammate. My reasoning was Pippen, and all of his teammates for that matter, learned how to hound on defense, move the ball, and approach the game, by simply watching Jordan.

The player whom I think will benefit most from playing along side Deng is actually Ben Wallace. The days of Ben being a sixteen rebound three point per game player are over; at least I hope for the benefit of the team that they are. Deng, Nocioni, Hinrich, Duhon (and soon Sef and Thabo) are just too good of rebounders for him to grab boards like he did in the past. 

I see Wallace developing as a ten to twelve point per game and eight to nine boards a game type player who is centrally involved in making little cuts around the hoop for quick scores; his skill set is perfect for this role with his hands and passing ability. If he continues to learn from Deng and move off the ball he will contribute more for this team than he could just parking out beneath the basket and grabbing boards.

Fun times.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> Bump.
> I believe Deng is the star we have been waiting for. He simply is the best forward in the league at moving without the ball around the hoop. It's been a long time coming since we've had a player with a transcendent skill.


Deng's skillset is reminisent of Larry Bird in some ways. He brings a lot of different skills to the table, but the best of these is his court vision, high BB IQ and his ability to integrate with his teammates. He's capable of providing whatever the team needs on any given night; and he seems to show up nearly every night. Skiles has penned him in as a starting forward since nearly the first day he arrived in the league as a teenager, and he has been getting better every year. He's the best player on a team of good NBA players.

He'll be an allstar someday, but it will be because he's a high scorer on a winning team. It's interesting that he almost has a phobia about shooting from behind the 3 point line right now. All he has to do to break through the 20 ppg barrier is to start shooting a few from that distance each game. Even if he only converts them as he has in the past, it will force defenses to play him more honestly on the perimeter and make driving to the bucket or getting open at midrange that much easier. More likely, we will see that his 3 point shooting has improved, just like every other aspect of his game.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

True Deng is really carving his niche as a hard cutter and a guy who is well suited to moving without the ball which creates opportunities for pass conscious guards like Duhon, Kirk ( and soon ) Thabo 

If you consider Deng...Thabo could well be a big part of the equation in his innate ability to pass the ball and find the open man and how well he complements both Kirk and Ben at the same time.

In terms of the best forward I have seen move off the ball in recent times was how Nellie had Antawn Jamison moving in Dallas . Probably the best I have seen him


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

McBulls said:


> Deng's skillset is reminisent of Larry Bird in some ways. He brings a lot of different skills to the table, but the best of these is his court vision, high BB IQ and his ability to integrate with his teammates. He's capable of providing whatever the team needs on any given night; and he seems to show up nearly every night. Skiles has penned him in as a starting forward since nearly the first day he arrived in the league as a teenager, and he has been getting better every year. He's the best player on a team of good NBA players.
> 
> He'll be an allstar someday, but it will be because he's a high scorer on a winning team. It's interesting that he almost has a phobia about shooting from behind the 3 point line right now. All he has to do to break through the 20 ppg barrier is to start shooting a few from that distance each game. Even if he only converts them as he has in the past, it will force defenses to play him more honestly on the perimeter and make driving to the bucket or getting open at midrange that much easier. More likely, we will see that his 3 point shooting has improved, just like every other aspect of his game.



Lu seemed fond of the college 3 point line at Dook


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Lu seemed fond of the college 3 point line at Dook


Skiles weighs in on Lu's fondness for the 3



> Asked to explain what has fueled his offensive surge, which had featured him averaging 21.4 points in the five games before Saturday night's meeting with Washington, Deng put down his plate of pregame fruit.
> 
> "I have no idea," Deng said.
> 
> ...


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> In terms of the best forward I have seen move off the ball in recent times was how Nellie had Antawn Jamison moving in Dallas . Probably the best I have seen him


Shawn Marion gets my vote. But I'd agree that Jamison was, and Deng now is, right up there with the best. 

I'm happy to see my boo fulfilling my year three prediction for him.

He's approaching near untouchable status in my opinion. And this time its because of actual production and not just my man-crush on him.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Good Hope said:


> Skiles weighs in on Lu's fondness for the 3


And I just put this in another thread along with a story From Mike. :biggrin: 

It's great to see Lu going with his strengths.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

narek said:


> And I just put this in another thread along with a story From Mike. :biggrin:
> 
> It's great to see Lu going with his strengths.


I only watched snippets of the game last night. 

I didn't see the off the ball movement others are talking about...but I saw him being very active and disruptive on defense, which was nice to see, since Skiles has complained about that a little bit. I forget exactly when, but I saw him make a couple of blocks on passes and steals in a pretty short period of time. Of course, it does seem like Washington sort of gave up out there.

Edit: And I agree with the original premise of this thread. I think stardom for this team is going to come at the SF-PF positions. Both Lu and Noc are playing awesome right now. Much better than either Kirk or Benji, though I suppose Kirk gets credit for being the "leader."


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## da bully (Oct 17, 2006)

i have a question... if deng makes the all-star game who doesnt? someone has to get bumped. and i definately agree with those who believe noc should be the sixth man. i remember when kukoc was our sixth man and pj was asked about him starting he said "its not who starts it who finishes. noc could get easily 30 min a night playing backup pf and sf.even a little sg depending on who the bulls are playing.

i hope the bulls dont trade hinrich deng and noc. in my opinion. the tradable players are gordon, brown, THE OPPORTUNITY to switch picks with the knicks, and either thomas if we are trying to get that low post presence (gasol) or thabo if we are going after that guard (pierce). either one of those players would put the bulls in the position to be the best team in the east.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Deng is the best player on the Chicago Bulls.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

El Chapu said:


> All Star? Maybe. I mean, he is a great fit for an All Star game since he plays no D.


Deng plays with energy on defense, but a lot of games he has to defend way more athletic SFs. the lateral movement he has just isnt enough to consistently stop those types. 

when you have a unique skills set for someone of your size, you're going to be a matchup problem for your own team on defense as well. like Dirk.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I think Deng needs to be in the conversation if the current trends continue to hold. He's been remarkably efficient offensively, and I can't begin to imagine where we'd be if he wasn't playing like this. The only thing holding him back from a legit all-star bid is name recognition. The fans definitely won't give him many votes, and even Jefferson and Prince would likely get more support from coaches. 

I'm not sure why people are bashing Deng's defense. From the 4-5 games I've seen, he's look pretty solid as usual. His length usually bothers opponents and he doesn't take plays off.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

I went and look up his recent numbers

```
SPLIT  	MPG  	FG%  	3P%  	FT%  	REB  	APG  	SPG  	BPG  	PPG
Last 5  36.4 	.545 	.000 	.760 	7.6 	2.6 	1.2 	0.8 	20.6
Last 10	36.0 	.552 	.000 	.775 	6.5 	2.5 	1.1 	0.7 	19.1
```
He have to play at the last 5 game level to the all star break, to make the team, in my opinion.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I don't know if these posts are addressed to thread topic in specific: but, I'm not saying he has any chance of making the team this year. I really don't see that happening. But I do Deng continuing to progress and developing into an all-star.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

darlets said:


> I went and look up his recent numbers
> 
> ```
> SPLIT  	MPG  	FG%  	3P%  	FT%  	REB  	APG  	SPG  	BPG  	PPG
> ...


The rebounding and FG% are way better than I expected. I think a couple of games ago he shot 9-19 from the field and I was a bit _disappointed_. That's still close to 50%, it's just I was so used to him shooting better that my standards were getting too high. This is a good thing. He still doesn't take anybody off the dribble, but if he continues to improve his FT% and later on adds a decent 3-pt stroke, then he could still put up over 20 ppg easily. If he does all those things and eventually adds that low-post game the coaches keep talking about, then I could see him being an all-star. He is exceeding my expectations of him, and what I like the most is his consistency, which just about everyone else on the team is lacking. 

:cheers:


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Visual evidence:


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Another thing you have to be impressed with is Deng's extra strength he added. It's really noticeable how much bigger he looks. Without a doubt, he's doing a better job at holding position and not getting pushed around. I bet he's around the 235-240 mark by now which even let's him mix it up as a PF now and then.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I'm sorry -- I'm just not done with this thread yet. Some people never get tired of writing about Eddy Curr; I never get tired about writing about Luol Deng. 9-11 tonight, ten rebounds, two assists. He's pretty damn good -- the best player we've had since Elton Brand; and perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, a little better than Elton was when he was here?


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> I'm sorry -- I'm just not done with this thread yet. Some people never get tired of writing about Eddy Curr; I never get tired about writing about Luol Deng. 9-11 tonight, ten rebounds, two assists. He's pretty damn good -- the best player we've had since Elton Brand; and perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, a little better than Elton was when he was here?


The thing that has been impressive this year is that he just doesn't seem to ever have an off game.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> and perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, a little better than Elton was when he was here?


Lets let Deng average 20 and 10 for a season or two before we go there. Best since Elton though.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Well, it looks like with Arenas beating out Vinsanity for the popular vote, Gordon is probably going to be an all-star! Kudos to him, and very possibly Luol Deng as well. Again, do we want to give up either, especially a twenty-one year old all-star, for Gasol? 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,4483205.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Gordon, Deng All-Star hopes ride on coaches

By K.C. Johnson
Tribune staff reporter

January 26, 2007, 8:59 PM CST

Here's a possibly odd scenario: At the Feb. 4 cutoff date, the Bulls either own the best or second-best record in the Eastern Conference behind the Pistons.

Their coach, Flip Saunders, is ineligible to be the All-Star coach because he served in that role last season. Thus, Scott Skiles is coach of the Eastern All-Star team—without any Bulls on it.

Click here to find out more! 
Could happen. Probably won't.

Coaches made their reserve selections Friday—they will be announced Thursday—and the Bulls hope at least Ben Gordon and possibly Luol Deng will be selected.

Gordon, the team's leading scorer, has the best chance, especially after the Wizards' Gilbert Arenas received late support in fan balloting to pass the Nets' Vince Carter for a starting spot.

With Jason Kidd almost certain to be a coach's reserve pick, there's another possibly odd scenario: Skiles coaching Kidd again. It's doubtful coaches would pick both Kidd and Carter from an underachieving Nets team.

"Both guys are having phenomenal seasons," Skiles said of Gordon and Deng. "I don't know why both guys wouldn't be strongly considered."

Skiles said he won't lobby for his players—and doesn't pay any attention to the promotional materials teams send to push their players.

"I would hope coaches do what I do with them, and that's throw them in the wastebasket under my desk," Skiles said.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> Lets let Deng average 20 and 10 for a season or two before we go there. Best since Elton though.


Well, Butler is the leading SF in rebounding in the NBA at 8.0, so asking Deng to get to 10 is an awful lot. Obviously more even more points would be great though, I think he has it in him.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

superdave said:


> Whoa, sorry to rain on your parade SST but I'm just checking the stats and I realized that Hinrich is shooting a shade over 49% on the season. Deng is blowing up, Noch up to his old tricks, Hinrich shooting at a career-best clip.... and the Bulls are 4-9. Obviously stats don't tell the whole story, sheesh.


-1

<table class="yspwhitebg" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="ysprow2" align="right"><td class="yspscores" align="left"> Kirk Hinrich</td> <td class="yspscores">42</td> <td class="yspscores">34:53</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td> <td class="yspscores">5.2</td> <td class="yspscores">12.0</td> <td class="yspscores">*43.6*</td> <td class="yspscores"></td><td class="yspscores">1.6</td> <td class="yspscores">4.0</td> <td class="yspscores">39.8</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td><td class="yspscores">3.0</td> <td class="yspscores">3.7</td> <td class="yspscores">80.1</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td><td class="yspscores">0.3</td> <td class="yspscores">2.8</td> <td class="yspscores">3.1</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td><td class="yspscores">6.3</td> <td class="yspscores">2.3</td> <td class="yspscores">1.2</td> <td class="yspscores">0.3</td> <td class="yspscores">3.3</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6">15.0</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td></tr></tbody></table>


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> Well, it looks like with Arenas beating out Vinsanity for the popular vote, Gordon is probably going to be an all-star! Kudos to him, and very possibly Luol Deng as well. Again, do we want to give up either, especially a twenty-one year old all-star, for Gasol?
> 
> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,4483205.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines
> 
> ...


Ya know... I was going to post a poll to ask if people thought Gordon was going to be picked as a reserve, but then I saw this thread. I didn't want to hijack it by pointing out we may well end up with an all-star, and it's not going to be Deng this year. 

It'd be great if both made it, and I'd really look forward to watching Paxson struggle with trying to talk two all-stars into taking MLE kind of deals in the offseasn.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> *and I'd really look forward to watching Paxson struggle with trying to talk two all-stars into taking MLE kind of deals in the offseasn.*


You would _look forward_ to watching that?

I certainly wouldn't.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

The Truth said:


> You would _look forward_ to watching that?
> 
> I certainly wouldn't.


Some people root for the suits. What else is better excitement to being a suit?


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Maybe I'm a little selfish, or maybe it's that I don't think much of the all-star game, but I hope neither Gordon or Deng make the all-star team this year.

So far their team hasn't won much, either in the regular season or the playoffs. Their stats are good, but not outstanding. Heck, Gordon couldn't even hold down a starting spot for a good part of the season.

Let them lead their team to the eastern conference finals and my mood will change next year.

Besides, it will be more difficult to sign them if they are pronounced to be all-stars.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I think we've learned that Deng will not be a first option in this league. He will be a 2nd option. Good thing Gordon is a 1st option. The scary thing about Deng, is that he could easily be a 2nd option that puts up 26 points a game. We will probably getting around 52-60 points per game from Gordon and Deng in the future. There really is no point in breaking them up.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

It would be interesting to see if Paxson would offer Deng and Gordon less than Hinrich if they turn out to be all-stars and Hinrich does not.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

McBulls said:


> Maybe I'm a little selfish, or maybe it's that I don't think much of the all-star game, but I hope neither Gordon or Deng make the all-star team this year.
> 
> So far their team hasn't won much, either in the regular season or the playoffs. Their stats are good, but not outstanding. Heck, Gordon couldn't even hold down a starting spot for a good part of the season.
> 
> ...


After we beat Miami tonight, we'll be 26-19, and .5 games out of the East. I don't see how you can say we're a team not deserving of allstars, especially for how good Gordon and Deng have been.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Question: What is Ben Gordon going to have in common with Pau Gasol after this all-star break?







Answer: Both of them will have one appearance in the all-star game.

Again is this really the guy we want to give up a boat-load of production for?


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I don't know if Gordon is going to make the All-Star game. I'm not sure I want him to. 

I want Deng to make it, but he'd be as exciting as Jamaal Magloire.



kukoc4ever said:


> It would be interesting to see if Paxson would offer Deng and Gordon less than Hinrich if they turn out to be all-stars and Hinrich does not.


I doubt that happens, but I could see Hinrich's contract being being used against him when negotiating with Gordon and Deng.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Well Gordon is significantly better than Hinrich, so Gordon will make at least as much as Hinrich. There is no point in pissing off Ben Gordon. Paxson should just give him a fair offer that he'll take out of the gate.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> It would be interesting to see if Paxson would offer Deng and Gordon less than Hinrich if they turn out to be all-stars and Hinrich does not.


Why would you suspect this?


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Why would you suspect this?



How long have you been following the Chicago Bulls?


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## FrankTheTank (Jun 25, 2004)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2007/news/story?id=2743007

The genius Walton put Josh Howard as a reserve on both teams, which leaves Gordon or Deng as his next picks. And Marc Stein picked Gordon as a wildcard.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime_070127-28


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> How long have you been following the Chicago Bulls?


LOL


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> How long have you been following the Chicago Bulls?


And the relevance is...?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> And the relevance is...?


How quickly people forget.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> How quickly people forget.





> It would be interesting to see if Paxson would offer Deng and Gordon less than Hinrich if they turn out to be all-stars and Hinrich does not.


This sentence implies that Paxson's decision on how much to pay players is somehow inversely correlated with all-star appearances. Please enlighten me on the precedent that Paxson has set on such decisions because I thought the Bulls hadn't had an all-star since Paxson took the job.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> This sentence implies that Paxson's decision on how much to pay players is somehow inversely correlated with all-star appearances. Please enlighten me on the precedent that Paxson has set on such decisions because I thought the Bulls hadn't had an all-star since Paxson took the job.


Seems to me he doesn't want to pay anyone anything, except for Hinrich, and except for if he's got cap space to use or lose.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Seems to me he doesn't want to pay anyone anything, except for Hinrich, and except for if he's got cap space to use or lose.


And then if the Bulls sign Deng and/Gordon will you say: 

"Seems to me he doesn't want to pay anyone anything, except for Hinrich, Deng and/or Gordon, and except for if he's got cap space to use or lose."?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> And then if the Bulls sign Deng and/Gordon will you say:
> 
> "Seems to me he doesn't want to pay anyone anything, except for Hinrich, Deng and/or Gordon, and except for if he's got cap space to use or lose."?


It seems to me he has to sign them or let them walk.

That doesn't mean he's not going to tell 'em to get the best RFA offers they can first, tho.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

As DaBullz says, it will be interesting to see if he takes the hard-line, get the best deal out there on the market approach to set the price vs. the lock em up quick Hinrich way.

The way Gordon is playing, he's going to cost a pretty penny. Yowza.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> The way Gordon is playing, he's going to cost a pretty penny. Yowza.


Gotta use that season ticket money for something useful, right K4E?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> -1
> 
> <table class="yspwhitebg" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="ysprow2" align="right"><td class="yspscores" align="left"> Kirk Hinrich</td> <td class="yspscores">42</td> <td class="yspscores">34:53</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td> <td class="yspscores">5.2</td> <td class="yspscores">12.0</td> <td class="yspscores">*43.6*</td> <td class="yspscores"></td><td class="yspscores">1.6</td> <td class="yspscores">4.0</td> <td class="yspscores">39.8</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td><td class="yspscores">3.0</td> <td class="yspscores">3.7</td> <td class="yspscores">80.1</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td><td class="yspscores">0.3</td> <td class="yspscores">2.8</td> <td class="yspscores">3.1</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td><td class="yspscores">6.3</td> <td class="yspscores">2.3</td> <td class="yspscores">1.2</td> <td class="yspscores">0.3</td> <td class="yspscores">3.3</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6">15.0</td> <td class="yspscores"> </td></tr></tbody></table>


Not exactly dominant but Kirk is still shooting a career best for the season. Two months after my original post, I think it still holds some weight. And yah, the Bulls just beat Dallas and Miami.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

superdave said:


> Gotta use that season ticket money for something useful, right K4E?


Nocioni will be the likely causality.

I'm just trying to see who, unlike Hinrich, will get the "let the market set the price" treatment.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

superdave said:


> Not exactly dominant but Kirk is still shooting a career best for the season. Two months after my original post, I think it still holds some weight. And yah, the Bulls just beat Dallas and Miami.


+1

So a 6% drop, do you think it's going to stay where it is?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

How about Fratello's comment on Deng tonight . . . Paraphrasing: "That is what great scorers do. Great scorers get easy buckets out of nowhere." After Deng made a nifty up-and-under next to the hoop to get a layup on Prince. I still don't consider Deng a 'great scorer' but he's continuing to show new moves almost every game. Hubie seems more than sold on our young forward. 

Did anyone else see his Duncan'esque up-fakes before the wing jumper tonight? Pretty bad stuff. And in the words of Run DMC, "Not bad meaning bad, but bad meaning good. Huh!"


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## Electric Slim (Jul 31, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> He doesn't have the ability to take people off the dribble and explode to the hoop or create his own shot like an Iverson, Pierce or even a Ben Gordon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxV5BGIJkeQ


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

NBA all-stars usually don't play much defense and dunk-a-lot. They also get lots of gratuitous foul calls by synchophant officials. When the don't they cry and complain a lot.

Deng seems to lack all of those essential qualities. 

Thank goodness.


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