# Raptors officially sign Landry Fields after NY declines to match



## Floods

> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> Just going up online and via SportsCenter: Raptors and Knicks' RFA Landry Fields have agreed to three-year offer sheet


..


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## Knick Killer

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

I like it.


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## Floods

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
Precise value of offer TBD but Knicks will have three days to match once Fields signs July 11. Deal likely to have Year 3 spike a la Asik


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## Dissonance

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Raps trying to block any NY/PHX s/t if he chose them? lol. Fields was brought up as a part of something possibility going back to PHX.


Not that I care about either scenario.


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## Floods

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
Sources say that the three-year deal offer sheet to Fields, with the Year 3 jump a la Omer Asik, approaches $20 million


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## 29380

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Floods said:


> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> Sources say that the three-year deal offer sheet to Fields, with the Year 3 jump a la Omer Asik, approaches $20 million


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## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



> @AlexKennedyNBA: Raptors and Knicks both want Steve Nash. Toronto agreed to offer sheet with Landry Fields, killing New York sign-and-trade offer. Checkmate.


..


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## Porn Player

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

BC with a mother****ing power move. 

Welcome to Toronto Nash.


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## Porn Player

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Final year @ $9.8m.


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## RollWithEm

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Porn Player said:


> BC with a mother****ing power move.
> 
> Welcome to Toronto Nash.


Really was quite well-played.


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## adman da madman

*Raptors Sign Landry Fields To Offer Sheet*

Oh god what the **** is BC doing *facepalm*

The Toronto Raptors have reached a verbal agreement with New York Knicks restricted free agent Landry Fields on an offer sheet, according to sources with knowledge of the deal. ESPN.com
NEW YORK KNICKS, TORONTO RAPTORS, FREE AGENCY, LANDRY FIELDS | SHARE 

Sources say that Fields will sign a three-year offer approaching $20 million. He cannot sign until July 11, which is the first day NBA players can sign new contracts. ESPN.com
NEW YORK KNICKS, TORONTO RAPTORS, FREE AGENCY, LANDRY FIELDS | SHARE 

Alex Kennedy: It sounds like Landry Fields' new deal would pay him $5 million in year one, $5.2 million in year two and $9.8 in year three. Poison pill. Twitter
NEW YORK KNICKS, TORONTO RAPTORS, FREE AGENCY, LANDRY FIELDS | SHARE 

Alan Hahn: Toronto showing Lin they’re serious. Trying to buy his best friend Landry Fields. Couch comes free. Twitter
TORONTO RAPTORS, FREE AGENCY, LANDRY FIELDS, JEREMY LIN | SHARE


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## R-Star

*Re: Raptors Sign Landry Fields To Offer Sheet*

Would it be that bad if the Raps got Fields?


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## Vuchato

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Floods said:


> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> Sources say that the three-year deal offer sheet to Fields, with the Year 3 jump a la Omer Asik, approaches $20 million


This threw me when I first read it, I thought he meant the final year approached 20 mill. now that would've been ridiculous


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## Porn Player

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Landry also played quite nicely when Melo was out, 10ppg and 5rbg off 47%. I would expect him to start unless Ross beats him out.


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## Knick Killer

*Re: Raptors Sign Landry Fields To Offer Sheet*

That's a lot of money. Wouldn't be surprised if New York let him walk.


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## Porn Player

*Re: Raptors Sign Landry Fields To Offer Sheet*

This stops NY getting Nash. 

It's a brilliant move. Landry's deal is final year loaded @ $9.7m. He's also a good player, 10 and 5 off near 50% while Melo was down. 

Nash is coming to Toronto.


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## doctordrizzay

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

This was absolutely not about Landry Fields, this was about Steve Nash. The Raptors have now effectively removed the Knicks as a serious contender for Nash by eliminating the sign and trade option with Landry Fields. Now the Knicks can't pay Nash much more than $3M instead of the $8M they could pay in the sign and trade. The dominos will fall now with Nash going to Toronto and Lin resigning with the Knicks. Smart play by the Raptors if they end up with Nash.


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## Mr_B

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

lol BC playing chess with the Knicks this show how bad we want nash also Fields is best friends with Jeremy Lin they lived together in NY , Lin also a FA and NY has cap issues things are about to get very interesting


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## Knick Killer

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

I'm a big fan of any move that potentially ****s over New York.


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## speedythief

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

I think a lot of people expected Fields to make a jump in his second season like Wilson Chandler was able to but the Melo trade really reduced his role on the team.

I don't know if the Knicks want to retain him. Either way it is a win for us supposing we couldn't find a better option at small forward. Fields is only 24 and could be a nice scorer for us supposing we are able to land Nash as well. 

All in all this seems like a nice play by Colangelo.

I guess you might be concerned that we are putting all of our eggs and then all of our neighbours and relatives eggs in the Nash basket at this point.


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## speedythief

*Re: Raptors Sign Landry Fields To Offer Sheet*

First post ever and it's to criticize the best thing Colangelo has done in months?


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## Raptor

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

don't expect Fields play for Toronto, Toronto will ship him, calderon and some player: Davis... to the Sun for Nash and Hill


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## speedythief

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Raptor said:


> don't expect Fields play for Toronto, Toronto will ship him, calderon and some player: Davis... to the Sun for Nash and Hill


Toronto can't sign-and-trade another team's free agent.


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## seifer0406

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

I like Fields, he's a nice player. If it's only a 3 year deal I think it's fine with or without Nash.

I watched a lot of Knicks last year because of Jeremy Lin. Fields kind of reminds me of a less trigger happy version of Carlos Delfino. Big guard that can handle the ball and is a pretty good slasher. I wonder what we're going to do with James Johnson and Kleiza. We have way too many mediocre wings at the moment.


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## speedythief

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Sounds like the Nash to New York sign and trade is far from dead. The Knicks are offering 9-10m a season and trying to iron out the details with Phoenix. Phoenix would rather get something for him than nothing, which is what the situation is if he signs on a free transfer to the Raps. Sounds like New York is his first choice right now. Bad sounds.


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## Porn Player

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Paying $19m to Fields is horrible, just horrible - if we don't get Nash. 

I really hope the verbal agreement was on the grounds Toronto secured Nash in the process.


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## speedythief

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Well the plan to keep Nash off the Knicks worked, but out of left field come the Lakers and we're left holding a $20m bag.

So... did Fields sign the offer sheet or was it a verbal agreement?

Raps rumoured to be chasing Kyle Lowry.


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## Floods

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

That would really blow if you're stuck with Fields after Nash got stolen.


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## HKF

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Fields is way overpaid and you will hate him from Game 2, once he continually bricks wide open shots. The American version of Sefolosha.


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## Knick Killer

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Well if his smoking hot girlfriend sits front row every game then that's $20 million well spent.


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## HKF

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Knick Killer said:


> Well if his smoking hot girlfriend sits front row every game then that's $20 million well spent.


Yeah, I am sure Elaine will do so for a little while. But it won't help the team, then what?


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## Raptor

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Guys, can we cancel the deal with Fields?


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## speedythief

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Raptor said:


> Guys, can we cancel the deal with Fields?


Not if he signed the offer sheet. 

Latest report says the Knicks will not match.

Fields earns something like 5/5/9 in a back-loaded contract. I remember only a few years ago a three year contract for a 24-year old was pretty unheard of if he was even close to the MLE salary level.

Need to cut/trade Forbes and Kleiza, now. Too many wings.


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## seifer0406

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

I still feel fine about signing Fields even without Nash. We overpaid for sure but 1)it's only for 3 years and 2)he does bring something that we need which is some toughness on the wing. Not to mention the guy is only 24 and will likely be better this year than he was last year.

We do however need to unload some wings.


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## Knick Killer

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

I don't HATE the Fields signing. He showed a lot of potential in his rookie season and he'll have more of a chance to show what he can do on a team without Lin, Melo, and Amare.


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## speedythief

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Important to remember that until Toronto becomes a destination for players like LA or NYC, overpaying in free agency will be the norm. Trades are the best way to acquire talent since we can pick who we want.


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## -James-

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Meh, Fields is a decent fit for this team, and the contract isn't terrible when considering he will be a nice trading chip in that contract year. I'm not thrilled about this pick-up because he's not the kind of player to get thrilled about, but even though the Nash-plan seems to have backfired, having Landry doesn't seem too bad. 

These contracts shouldn't be allowed, but whatever.


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## Porn Player

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

As stated, Fields isn't horrible, I'd just much rather have him at the correct price.


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## HKF

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Porn Player said:


> As stated, Fields isn't horrible, I'd just much rather have him at the correct price.


Check Fields' numbers last year. He was terrible in all phases of the game. This is Josh Childress or Marvin Williams all over again (but with a worse player).


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## Porn Player

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Check the numbers the year before. He's the next coming.  

I'm not going to judge anybody that had to try and play on that Knicks team last year. Casey is a big admirer, and it means Kleiza will be out.


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## seifer0406

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



HKF said:


> Check Fields' numbers last year. He was terrible in all phases of the game. This is Josh Childress or Marvin Williams all over again (but with a worse player).


nah, not only are they not the same type of player Field's contract is only 3 years. Childress and Marvin Williams had 5 year contracts.

Fields is also a decent rebounder for his position. With Bargnani averaging 5 boards a game that's a plus for us.


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## seifer0406

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

now that we got Lowry I wonder if the Knicks might be interested in Calderon since it looks like they are losing Lin. They got Kidd but he won't be playing big minutes so a tandem of Kidd/Calderon might work for them, two guys that can facilitate an offense. Perhaps a sign and trade for Fields and Toney Douglas could work salary wise?


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## 29380

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Knicks are not losing Lin they are going to match the offer sheet the Rocket gave him.


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## Knick Killer

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



> The Knicks may be ready to match Toronto's three-year, $19 million offer to SG Landry Fields.
> Luxury tax is not an issue simply because the Knicks don't care about it, but it does sound like they'll wait the entire three days before making the decision. And at this point, it sounds like there's a 50 percent chance the Knicks will match.


http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NBA&id=1753&line=183434&spln=1

I was excited to see Landry Fields play here but his contract is ridiculous and the Knicks matching it would probably be doing us a huge favor.


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## Junkyard Dog13

*Re: TWITTER: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

lets try to work out something for iggy, Calderon could help Drue holiday, they haven't re-signed lous Williams yet and by acquiring Dorell Wright and having thadd young and Turner they can move on without Iggy, I don't think at all BC will have any problem taking his 2 years left. We could offer either package
1 PG calderon SF/PF Klieza for SF Iguodala or 2 PG Calderon and PG/C Jhonson to help fill in the void left by cutting Brand.


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## Junkyard Dog13

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Can kiss goodbye any trade f jose to big D now


> The Pacers have agreed to trade PG Darren Collison and SG Dahntay Jones to the Mavericks for C Ian Mahinmi in a sign-and-trade deal.
> Mahinmi gets $16 million over four years, the Mavericks get a starting point guard, and the Pacers clear up a logjam at the position, although we're not sure why they just gave Collison away. Collison should be a good fit in Dallas, while George Hill is now the starting PG in Indy, with Lance Stephenson set to get a much bigger role this season. In an update, the Pacers are now said to be trying to sign-and-trade for D.J. Augustin, which would send Hill back to a bench role, if it happens.
> Source: Draft Express on Twitte


eitier find a different partner/keep him although has expressed he is unhappy with the addition better with this young core we amnesty him if we cant trade him and sign some vet back up or bring Uzoh back and perhaps Anthony Carter too but someone in the Anthony Carter mold who can actually shoot

Then we are looking at the PG PT as Lowry 33 MPG Uzoh 10 MPG 5 Carter/vet


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## kbdullah

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Wouldn't be surprised if Houston shows interest in Calderon. Even Sessions is off the market now.


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## Junkyard Dog13

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

jose and amir for Dalembert anyone think that in the short run can help us and houston both? Amir started the year as our starting C and showed he can stay there and is better there as opposed to the 4.


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## HKF

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Dalembert is in Milwaukee now.


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## Junkyard Dog13

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Houston amnestied Scola trade Amir and bring in Scola a better scorer and as gritty as Amir.


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## Porn Player

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Landry is officially a Raptor. 

Welcome aboard, smart player that has shown a lot of promise. Hopefully being away from Carmelo let's him get back to the level of play we witnessed during his Rookie campaign and last year while Melo was down.


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## c_dog

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

for 20 million i rather have JLin at 25million. better player, more exciting, and will keep the air canada center rocking. raptors sell out every single game with lin.

i hate how this organization spends money to bring in middle of the road players who won't contribute shit. this is gonna end up like turkoglou, kleiza.. even more stupid cuz we're trying to develope terrence ross and to lesser extent derozan.


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## Porn Player

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

3 year deal, it's fine, slightly overpaid but he's got talent and he's smart. Casey also wanted him, and that guy just keeps getting it right, so I trust. 

Lin is nothing special and we have Lowry, who is infinitely better.


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## c_dog

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Porn Player said:


> 3 year deal, it's fine, slightly overpaid but he's got talent and he's smart. Casey also wanted him, and that guy just keeps getting it right, so I trust.
> 
> Lin is nothing special and we have Lowry, who is infinitely better.


if the raps care about revenue, they would have spent the extra 5 mil to get lin. lin is every bit as good as lowry if not better, and he'll sell out games and merchandise. he would put toronto on the global map and bring in global corporate sponsors.

i believe casey is a good coach. but he tends to favor defensive players like lowry who are just a bulldog on defense.  lin is the way better offensive player.


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## Porn Player

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*

Lin is a nobody. He's hyped because of his ethnicity and his underdog story. Lowry is a superior player in every facet of the game. 

The Raptors are a global team, the fanbase is huge and the ACC is one of the most packed stadiums come game time.


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## -James-

There is no way Lin is better than Lowry. Sorry, bro.


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## Luke

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



c_dog said:


> if the raps care about revenue, they would have spent the extra 5 mil to get lin. * lin is every bit as good as lowry if not better,* and he'll sell out games and merchandise. he would put toronto on the global map and bring in global corporate sponsors.
> 
> i believe casey is a good coach. but he tends to favor defensive players like lowry who are just a bulldog on defense. lin is the way better offensive player.


:laugh: Weren't you the one that said Lin wasn't overrated?


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## seifer0406

Lowry is just a much better fit for us than Lin. Lowry might be better but it's not like he's in a different class than Lin, I would say they are about even with a slight edge to Lowry. For the Raptors though Lowry is a much better fit because of his defense.


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## Knick Killer

Hell yeah he's overpaid but it's a nice addition. If Casey is a big fan of him then I'm thrilled to have him on board.


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## c_dog

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Luke said:


> :laugh: Weren't you the one that said Lin wasn't overrated?


you mean on the main forum

i was saying he would keep up his production next year. he is overrated by some but most basketball fans have a realistic assessment of how good he actually is. even then, he is better than lowry. we just happen to be discussing in a raptors forum where most fans(except myself) see everything with homer glasses. not the first time i disagreed with the guys here. we disagreed about hedo and kleiza too.

weren't you the one who was saying asians were wack for making a big deal out of lin's success cuz you would never make a big deal out of a white guy having success? and then everybody put you at your place that we live in a world were white guys are the top of the food chain so no shit nobody would make a big deal? good times


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## -James-

Nope, I have always thought that Lin isn't that good. And I actually have always been a fan of Lowry and actually think he's being a bit overrated here, so don't "homer goggles" me.

Lin is not better than Lowry.


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## Luke

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



c_dog said:


> you mean on the main forum
> 
> i was saying he would keep up his production next year. he is overrated by some but most basketball fans have a realistic assessment of how good he actually is. even then, he is better than lowry. we just happen to be discussing in a raptors forum where most fans(except myself) see everything with homer glasses. not the first time i disagreed with the guys here. we disagreed about hedo and kleiza too.
> 
> weren't you the one who was saying asians were wack for making a big deal out of lin's success cuz you would never make a big deal out of a white guy having success? and then everybody put you at your place that we live in a world were white guys are the top of the food chain so no shit nobody would make a big deal? good times


He isn't better than Lowry though. At all. Lowry is a much more complete point guard and it's not really debatable. And you don't see everything with homer glasses? The same guy that has been blowing Lin in every thread lately? Please. Raptor fans are excited about Lowry and have every right to be, he's a good young point guard. 

Yeah, that was me. And you're proving my point in this thread. Congratulations. And no one "put me in my place". I stated that I don't get excited about white basketball players because they're white, which is true. What people of my race do outside of basketball is irrelevant; I was talking about basketball, you know, the sport that Jeremy Lin is mediocre at relative to his counterparts. But good try.


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## c_dog

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Luke said:


> He isn't better than Lowry though. At all. Lowry is a much more complete point guard and it's not really debatable. And you don't see everything with homer glasses? The same guy that has been blowing Lin in every thread lately? Please. Raptor fans are excited about Lowry and have every right to be, he's a good young point guard.
> 
> Yeah, that was me. And you're proving my point in this thread. Congratulations. And no one "put me in my place". I stated that I don't get excited about white basketball players because they're white, which is true. What people of my race do outside of basketball is irrelevant; I was talking about basketball, you know, the sport that Jeremy Lin is mediocre at relative to his counterparts. But good try.


again you're just ignorant. you fail to notice why minorities would get so excited about seeing one of their own succeed. white guys are succeeding in every aspect of society including sports. while the stereotype for asians is that they are only good at math and science and generally not very athletic. that's why asians cheer for jeremy lin. it's something you as a white guy will never understand cuz you lack perspective and you're ignorant. and you totally got put in your place in that thread, sorry buddy. everybody was calling out your ignorance but i see you still don't get it.

lowry is not better than lin. i guess we will have to wait til the season begins to see. it's not like raptors fans have great perspective on talent. i've stated that bargnani, hedo, kleiza would be terrible signing at the times they were signed and each time various members of the forum tell me i'm wrong but i end up being right each and every time.


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## Luke

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



c_dog said:


> again you're just ignorant. you fail to notice why minorities would get so excited about seeing one of their own succeed. white guys are succeeding in every aspect of society including sports. while the stereotype for asians is that they are only good at math and science and generally not very athletic. that's why asians cheer for jeremy lin. it's something you as a white guy will never understand cuz you lack perspective and you're ignorant. and you totally got put in your place in that thread, sorry buddy. everybody was calling out your ignorance but i see you still don't get it.
> 
> lowry is not better than lin. i guess we will have to wait til the season begins to see. it's not like raptors fans have great perspective on talent. i've stated that bargnani, hedo, kleiza would be terrible signing at the times they were signed and each time various members of the forum tell me i'm wrong but i end up being right each and every time.


The fact that you feel the desire to root for a player solely based on his ethnicity is the definition of ignorance. Race is not a factor to me when deciding who my favorite players are, how you are construing that as "ignorant" is beyond me. The success of white people in the world in irrelevant; we're not talking about accomplishments outside of basketball, we're talking about a specific sport that is dominated by a race other than my own. And that doesn't bother me at all. I don't turn into a little fangirl every time Kevin Love puts up a 20/20 game because he's white. You cheer for Jeremy Lin *because* he's asian, not because of his specific skill set, and that's pathetic.

And please, show me where I was put in my place. If I recall correctly that thread ended with you babbling on about nothing and wordsmith Jamel calling me "white boy" and twisting my words. But feel free to go find specific examples.

Lowry is absolutely a better basketball player than Lin. He is a *far* superior defender, is less careless with the ball, and was able to put up comparable offensive numbers despite playing in a completely different system than Lin. The vast majority of intelligent basketball fans on this site would take Lowry over Lin in a heartbeat.

And if I were you, I probably wouldn't be using my track record while trying to defend myself. Look at your freaking signature. You're the same guy that's still sporting pictures saying that Sonny Weems and Demar Derozan should strike fear into opponents heart. Hilarious. And your Kevin Durant prediction for 2011 was equally as ridiculous.


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## Wade County

I'm pretty sure a lot of Asians are succeeding in all walks of life. 

Jeremy Lin is a solid player, but come on, Lowry craps all over him as a PG. I'm white and I think this. You saying white people are ignorant, is being ignorant :laugh:


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## seifer0406

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Luke said:


> The fact that you feel the desire to root for a player solely based on his ethnicity is the definition of ignorance. Race is not a factor to me when deciding who my favorite players are, how you are construing that as "ignorant" is beyond me. The success of white people in the world in irrelevant; we're not talking about accomplishments outside of basketball, we're talking about a specific sport that is dominated by a race other than my own. And that doesn't bother me at all. I don't turn into a little fangirl every time Kevin Love puts up a 20/20 game because he's white. You cheer for Jeremy Lin *because* he's asian, not because of his specific skill set, and that's pathetic.


You're out of your mind here. NBA is mostly black but to compare a good white player like Kevin Love to Jeremy Lin who is the *first* Asian American to play in the league is just ridiculous. If Kevin Love is the first white person to ever play in the NBA then I can guarantee you that he'll be getting all kinds of attention. It has nothing to do with success outside of basketball (believe me, with the current US economy a lot of people are wishing they're from elsewhere). People like to cheer for underdogs and when you're the first of your ethnic group to actually succeed at doing something, you are an underdog for that particular thing.

I don't see why you think that cheering for him because he's Asian is pathetic. What's pathetic about it? There hasn't been any other Asian that made it to the NBA so it's wrong to cheer for him because he might be the first one that's any good?


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## Luke

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



seifer0406 said:


> You're out of your mind here. NBA is mostly black but to compare a good white player like Kevin Love to Jeremy Lin who is the *first* Asian American to play in the league is just ridiculous. If Kevin Love is the first white person to ever play in the NBA then I can guarantee you that he'll be getting all kinds of attention. It has nothing to do with success outside of basketball (believe me, with the current US economy a lot of people are wishing they're from elsewhere). People like to cheer for underdogs and when you're the first of your ethnic group to actually succeed at doing something, you are an underdog for that particular thing.
> 
> I don't see why you think that cheering for him because he's Asian is pathetic. What's pathetic about it? There hasn't been any other Asian that made it to the NBA so it's wrong to cheer for him because he might be the first one that's any good?


A player's ethnicity should not dictate how a fan views a player. I don't like Kobe Bryant less because he's black, and I don't like Kevin Love more because he's white. Basing your opinion on an athlete by his physical appearance/race is childish and borderline racist.

But I'm the ignorant one.


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## ChosenFEW

This reminds me of that south park episode where Stans dad said a racial slur. Stan kept trying to understand where minorities were coming from(not literally) but he finally understood when he understood that he would never understand. Then the black kid says, now you understand. 

Lol

I've become a south park fan again thanks to Netflix.


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## Luke

ChosenFEW said:


> This reminds me of that south park episode where Stans dad said a racial slur. Stan kept trying to understand where minorities were coming from(not literally) but he finally understood when he understood that he would never understand. Then the black kid says, now you understand.
> 
> Lol
> 
> I've become a south park fan again thanks to Netflix.


I watched the "Butt Out" episode today on netflix, it was hilarious.


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## seifer0406

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Luke said:


> A player's ethnicity should not dictate how a fan views a player. I don't like Kobe Bryant less because he's black, and I don't like Kevin Love more because he's white. Basing your opinion on an athlete by his physical appearance/race is childish and borderline racist.
> 
> But I'm the ignorant one.


So according to you Obama being the first black president should mean nothing to anyone and anyone who feels inspired by him for that reason is pathetic and childish? How old are you really?

The fact that you would think that to cheer for someone because he's the first of his ethnic group to succeed in the NBA is racist just baffles me.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



seifer0406 said:


> So according to you Obama being the first black president should mean nothing to anyone and anyone who feels inspired by him for that reason is pathetic and childish? How old are you really?
> 
> The fact that you would think that to cheer for someone because he's the first of his ethnic group to succeed in the NBA is racist just baffles me.


Where did I say that? I've explicitly stated over and over that I am referring specifically to professional basketball players. You know, ordinary people that play a children's game exceptionally well. Not a President, not a doctor, a freaking athlete. Anyone who feels "inspired" by an athlete's ability to play a game is a joke. Period. They are normal people that posses a particular skill. Having a preference that is based on an athlete's ethnicity is racist.

Since we're putting ridiculous words in each other's mouth, do you give Asian people preferential treatment in your life? Do you think less of whites or blacks because their skin color doesn't "inspire" you?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Luke said:


> Where did I say that? I've explicitly stated over and over that I am referring specifically to professional basketball players. You know, ordinary people that play a children's game exceptionally well. Not a President, not a doctor, a freaking athlete. Anyone who feels "inspired" by an athlete's ability to play a game is a joke. Period. They are normal people that posses a particular skill. Having a preference that is based on an athlete's ethnicity is racist.


It's the same logic here if you're having a hard time following. We can discuss why people can be inspired by professional athletes but on the topic of cheering for someone because of their race due to the fact that they are the first one of their ethnic group to succeed at doing whatever they're doing Obama being president is the same as Jeremy Lin making it into the NBA. Not the same magnitude obviously but the logic is the same. It has never been done before and people are inspired by them for being the first at doing it. For you to see this a sign of racism is just ridiculous. If anything it's a sign of overcoming racism if there is to begin with.



> Anyone who feels "inspired" by an athlete's ability to play a game is a joke. Period.


I think this is where your ignorance comes in. You don't grasp the idea that people can appreciate somebody's work ethic and the sacrifices that they make to their bodies to play a sport. It might be a childish game to you but for them it's their livelihood and something that they've dedicated their life in doing. Do you have any respect for actors or singers or any kind of entertainer in our society? Do you respect any of their work? Do you have any respect for chefs who have earned Michelin stars for their restaurants? It's just cooking food, why would that lead to any inspiration? How about artists? Any idiot could draw, I bet you've drawn. How about writers, poets, broadcasters, etc.

I mean really, do I still have to go on?



> Since we're putting ridiculous words in each other's mouth, do you give Asian people preferential treatment in your life? Do you think less of whites or blacks because their skin color doesn't "inspire" you?


No I don't but I don't see why that would mean anything.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



seifer0406 said:


> It's the same logic here if you're having a hard time following. We can discuss why people can be inspired by professional athletes but on the topic of cheering for someone because of their race due to the fact that they are the first one of their ethnic group to succeed at doing whatever they're doing Obama being president is the same as Jeremy Lin making it into the NBA. It has never been done before and people are inspired by them for being the first at doing it. For you to see this a sign of racism is just ridiculous. If anything it's a sign of overcoming racism if there is to begin with.


Obama becoming the first African American president is not comparable to Jeremy Lin being a mediocre professional basketball player. Period. I'll be ignoring every future reference comparing an athlete to anything other than another professional athlete.




seifer0406 said:


> I think this is where your ignorance comes in. You don't grasp the idea that people can appreciate somebody's work ethic and the sacrifices that they make to their bodies to play a sport. It might be a childish game to you but for them it's their livelihood and something that they've dedicated their life in doing. Do you have any respect for actors or singers or any kind of entertainer in our society? Do you respect any of their work? Do you have any respect for chefs who have earned Michelin stars for their restaurants? It's just cooking food, why would that lead to any inspiration? How about artists? Any idiot could draw, I bet you've drawn.
> 
> I mean really, do I still have to go on?


I can appreciate basketball players being good at basketball. I can also respect an individual's drive and work ethic. But I will never be "inspired" by a grown man that plays a game for a living. It's a game. 

Racism is defined as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race". If a person likes Jeremy Lin *because* he's asian, than that person is a racist. I don't care about whatever inferiority complex that individual feels about his or her heritage, *preferring or disliking a human being based on their ethnicity is racist.*

People should like Jeremy Lin because of what he accomplished as a basketball player, not because of what he looks like. The fact that he is famous because of his ethnicity more so than the fact that he transformed from being borderline out of the league to a solid starter in less than a year is disgusting. And I would hope that Jeremy Lin would agree with me. He was born Asian. He *earned* the right to play in the world's greatest basketball league by single handily turning an entire franchise around overnight. The latter is the reason people should support this underdog story, not because of his heritage.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



Luke said:


> Obama becoming the first African American president is not comparable to Jeremy Lin being a mediocre professional basketball player. Period. I'll be ignoring every future reference comparing an athlete to anything other than another professional athlete.


Just because you keep saying period doesn't mean your point is any less retarded. I already explained that it's the logic that's similar. I'm not comparing the accomplishment of the two, I'm simply explaining that people cheer for Jeremy Lin for the same reason that some people cheered for Obama. They are the the first of their ethnic group to succeed at doing their particular thing. They've fought against great odds and still ended up succeeding. For you to label those people as pathetic is again, ridiculous.



> I can appreciate basketball players being good at basketball. I can also respect an individual's drive and work ethic. But I will never be "inspired" by a grown man that plays a game for a living. It's a game.


No you can't apparently, or else you wouldn't be making this statement. Since I don't see you replying to any of my post regarding the various jobs outside of "Doctors and presidents" I am going to assume that I have pushed my point across. You are an ignorant individual and it has nothing to do with your race.



> Racism is defined as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race". If a person likes Jeremy Lin because he's asian, than that person is a racist. I don't care about whatever inferiority complex that individual feels about his or her heritage, preferring or disliking a human being based on their ethnicity is racist.


I think most people understand the definition of racism. However like I said before people are cheering for him because he's the first one of his ethnic group to succeed in the NBA. It's not like we live in a society where Asians are preferred everywhere and this is an extension of that. People cheer for him because he's doing something that has never been done before.


----------



## R-Star

I'd pipe in on how Lowry and Lin isn't even a debate, but it seems its been taken care of already. 

Unless Lin plays next season dropping 20 a game again its pretty laughable to call him better than Lowry.


----------



## Luke

This is going in circles.

I'm "ignorant" because I enjoy watching Jeremy Lin the basketball player, not Jeremy Lin the Asian, and you're perfectly fine because you judge people based on their skin color. Congratulations. c_dog probably thinks you're the kewlest racist on this site.

And for anyone that's still wondering, Kyle Lowry is still better at basketball than Jeremy Lin.


----------



## seifer0406

Luke said:


> This is going in circles.
> 
> I'm "ignorant" because I enjoy watching Jeremy Lin the basketball player, not Jeremy Lin the Asian, and you're perfectly fine because you judge people based on their skin color. Congratulations. c_dog probably thinks you're the kewlest racist on this site.
> 
> And for anyone that's still wondering, Kyle Lowry is still better at basketball than Jeremy Lin.


I do find it funny that your ignorance is keeping you from understanding why you're ignorant.

But anyway, we're done here. And yes, I do believe that Lowry is better than Lin and is a better fit for us, so I guess we can agree on that at least.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



seifer0406 said:


> Just because you keep saying period doesn't mean your point is any less retarded. I already explained that it's the logic that's similar. I'm not comparing the accomplishment of the two, I'm simply explaining that people cheer for Jeremy Lin for the same reason that some people cheered for Obama. They are the the first of their ethnic group to succeed at doing their particular thing. They've fought against great odds and still ended up succeeding. For you to label those people as pathetic is again, ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> No you can't apparently, or else you wouldn't be making this statement. Since I don't see you replying to any of my post regarding the various jobs outside of "Doctors and presidents" I am going to assume that I have pushed my point across. You are an ignorant individual and it has nothing to do with your race.
> 
> 
> 
> I think most people understand the definition of racism. However like I said before people are cheering for him because he's the first one of his ethnic group to succeed in the NBA. It's not like we live in a society where Asians are preferred everywhere and this is an extension of that. People cheer for him because he's doing something that has never been done before.


Both of your guys arguments are ridiculous.

Where are Asians not "preferred" as you say? 

There haven't been many good Asians to cheer for in the NBA because..... there aren't many NBA level asians at this point in time. Its not as though there's a bunch of super talented Asians being held back due to their race.

And on the other side of the argument, of course Asians cheer for Lin. Why the hell wouldn't they. 

How this somehow devolved into some sort of ridiculous racism discussion is beyond me.


----------



## Luke

By my count I'm ignorant for the following reasons:

1.) First and foremost, I'm white.

2.) There have been successful white people in history, including professional basketball players

3.) I think that people should like Jeremy Lin for reasons pertaining to basketball, not because he's Asian.

4.) I do not think that presidents of the USA and mediocre NBA point guards are contemporaries in their ability to inspire others.

5.) I can merely "respect" and "appreciate" the following: Professional athletes, master chefs, artists, actors and singers. I lack to capacity to be "inspired" by these people.

6.) I presented the definition of racism and explained how giving Lin preferential treatment due to his race is blatantly racist.

Ah! I understand now! Call me "retarded" a few more times to really rub it in! c_dog is gonna be talking about this for a long time!


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Raptors sign Landry Fields to offer sheet*



R-Star said:


> Where are Asians not "preferred" as you say?


When I said we don't live in a society where Asians are preferred everywhere I meant that they don't get preferential treatment meaning that they get treated the same as everyone else.


----------



## seifer0406

Luke said:


> By my count I'm ignorant for the following reasons:
> 
> 1.) First and foremost, I'm white.
> 
> 2.) There have been successful white people in history, including professional basketball players
> 
> 3.) I think that people should like Jeremy Lin for reasons pertaining to basketball, not because he's Asian.
> 
> 4.) I do not think that presidents of the USA and mediocre NBA point guards are contemporaries in their ability to inspire others.
> 
> 5.) I can merely "respect" and "appreciate" the following: Professional athletes, master chefs, artists, actors and singers. I lack to capacity to be "inspired" by these people.
> 
> 6.) I presented the definition of racism and explained how giving Lin preferential treatment due to his race is blatantly racist.
> 
> Ah! I understand now! Call me "retarded" a few more times to really rub it in! c_dog is gonna be talking about this for a long time!


1. no

2. I don't know how successful white people and successful white players in the NBA make you ignorant. Perhaps you should learn the reason behind *numbering* your reasons before actually numbering your reasons.

3. Right but you fail to understand how people can cheer for him because he's doing something that has never been done before.

4. Like I explained, both are the first of their ethnic group to be successful at doing something that hasn't been done before. The comparison isn't about being president and being a NBA player, it's about beating odds.

5. I think out of everything that you've said this is where most of your ignorance lies. Perhaps you should give me a list of professions that in your opinion deserves to create inspiration for people. I guess people who have been inspired by Beethoven or Picasso are "jokes" according to you.

6. nope. And this point leads back to point 3 and since you ran into problems there you have issues here.



> Ah! I understand now! Call me "retarded" a few more times to really rub it in! c_dog is gonna be talking about this for a long time!


:laugh:

You're ignorant, *period*.


----------



## -James-

Firstly, Lin vs Lowry I don't think is debatable - Lowry is the far superior player.

But I think it is honestly so stupid that you're trying to argue that Asians cheering for Lin because he's Asian is racist or wrong or somehow immoral. Pretty sure you have to reevaluate your definition of racism here because that is pretty clearly not racist. What is wrong with looking up to a guy that looks like yourself, particularly when they pretty much never come around. That's like saying an aspiring black quarterback would somehow be racist if they were to follow Cam Newton instead of Aaron Rodgers.


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> By my count I'm ignorant for the following reasons:
> 
> 1.) First and foremost, I'm white.
> 
> 2.) There have been successful white people in history, including professional basketball players
> 
> 3.) I think that people should like Jeremy Lin for reasons pertaining to basketball, not because he's Asian.
> 
> 4.) I do not think that presidents of the USA and mediocre NBA point guards are contemporaries in their ability to inspire others.
> 
> 5.) I can merely "respect" and "appreciate" the following: Professional athletes, master chefs, artists, actors and singers. I lack to capacity to be "inspired" by these people.
> 
> 6.) I presented the definition of racism and explained how giving Lin preferential treatment due to his race is blatantly racist.
> 
> Ah! I understand now! Call me "retarded" a few more times to really rub it in! c_dog is gonna be talking about this for a long time!


I don't see why it would be hard to understand why Asians would cheer for an exciting young Asian PG.

If there were no white dudes in the NBA and then there was a promising young white guard who showed up out of nowhere, I'd be all over it too.


----------



## R-Star

-James- said:


> Firstly, Lin vs Lowry I don't think is debatable - Lowry is the far superior player.
> 
> But I think it is honestly so stupid that you're trying to argue that Asians cheering for Lin because he's Asian is racist or wrong or somehow immoral. Pretty sure you have to reevaluate your definition of racism here because that is pretty clearly not racist. What is wrong with looking up to a guy that looks like yourself, particularly when they pretty much never come around. That's like saying an aspiring black quarterback would somehow be racist if they were to follow Cam Newton instead of Aaron Rodgers.


Agreed. It doesn't make sense in my books.


----------



## seifer0406

-James- said:


> Firstly, Lin vs Lowry I don't think is debatable - Lowry is the far superior player.
> 
> But I think it is honestly so stupid that you're trying to argue that Asians cheering for Lin because he's Asian is racist or wrong or somehow immoral. Pretty sure you have to reevaluate your definition of racism here because that is pretty clearly not racist. What is wrong with looking up to a guy that looks like yourself, particularly when they pretty much never come around. That's like saying an aspiring black quarterback would somehow be racist if they were to follow Cam Newton instead of Aaron Rodgers.


I think his logic is that because he is white and he doesn't cheer for white players therefore it doesn't make sense to him why Asians would cheer for Asian players.

I tried to explain to him that if white people never made it to the NBA and suddenly theres a good white player in the NBA he would get the same if not more attention than Jeremy Lin. People cheer because it's an underdog story, not because people are racists. If there are tons of Asians in the NBA Jeremy Lin wouldn't get this type of attention but the fact is he is the first one. It's just like the next black president wouldn't be as big of a deal as Obama on that particular aspect of being black and being the president.


----------



## Luke

seifer0406 said:


> 1. no
> 
> 2. I don't know how successful white people and successful white players in the NBA make you ignorant. Perhaps you should learn the reason behind *numbering* your reasons before actually numbering your reasons.
> 
> 3. Right but you fail to understand how people can cheer for him because he's doing something that has never been done before.
> 
> 4. Like I explained, both are the first of their ethnic group to be successful at doing something that hasn't been done before. The comparison isn't about being president and being a NBA player, it's about beating odds.
> 
> 5. I think out of everything that you've said this is where most of your ignorance lies. Perhaps you should give me a list of professions that in your opinion deserves to create inspiration for people. I guess people who have been inspired by Beethoven or Picasso are "jokes" according to you.
> 
> 6. nope. And this point leads back to point 3 and since you ran into problems there you have issues here.
> 
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> You're ignorant, *period*.


1.) Yes!

2.) According to you, I'm oblivious as to why I am "ignorant". I created a list of six points that you have made throughout this discussion. Posters have stated that I am ignorant because I don't know what it's like to be a minority, which is true. What any of this has to do with me being ignorant is beyond me, hence "oblivious as to why I am "ignorant"".

3.) You're right; Lin did something that no one has done before. He came out of nowhere and single handily saved the Knicks' season for a duration of the season. That is fantastic. That also has nothing to do with the fact that he's Asian. 

4.)Yes, this shouldn't have anything to do with being a president or being an NBA player, that's what I've been saying the entire time. And yes again, this is about Jeremy Lin beating the odds as a *basketball player.*

5.) I am not an *aspiring* basketball player, artist, musician, chef, or actor. Therefore, basketball players, artists, musicians, chefs, and actors do not *inspire* me. I do however, enjoy basketball, art, music, food, and movies. So I can *appreciate* and *respect* these people, their work, and their dedication. I'm not seeing where the problem is here.


----------



## Luke

-James- said:


> Firstly, Lin vs Lowry I don't think is debatable - Lowry is the far superior player.


Correct.



-James- said:


> But I think it is honestly so stupid that you're trying to argue that Asians cheering for Lin because he's Asian is racist or wrong or somehow immoral. Pretty sure you have to reevaluate your definition of racism here because that is pretty clearly not racist. What is wrong with looking up to a guy that looks like yourself, particularly when they pretty much never come around. That's like saying an aspiring black quarterback would somehow be racist if they were to follow Cam Newton instead of Aaron Rodgers.


That is not my definition of racism. Racism is defined in the dictionary as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race". Anyone, not just an Asian, who prefers Jeremy Lin over Kyle Lowry because Jeremy Lin is Asian is racist literally by definition.

Aren't we supposed to live in a world where race should not dictate how we view an individual? Isn't that the point of tolerance in the first place? 

If an aspiring black quarterback wanted to model his game after Cam Newton instead of Aaron Rodgers because he enjoys the way Cam Newton plays football then he is not a racist. If an aspiring black quarterback chose to favor Cam Newton over Aaron Rodgers because Cam is black and Aaron is white, then yeah, he's a racist.


----------



## seifer0406

Luke said:


> 1.) Yes!
> 
> 2.) According to you, I'm oblivious as to why I am "ignorant". I created a list of six points that you have made throughout this discussion. Posters have stated that I am ignorant because I don't know what it's like to be a minority, which is true. What any of this has to do with me being ignorant is beyond me, hence "oblivious as to why I am "ignorant"".


Except your point 2 says that there are successful white people and successful white players. Why don't you just say that the sky is blue, it has nothing to do with your point. When you list 6 points, you are listing 6 points that support your argument. This supports nothing.



> 3.) You're right; Lin did something that no one has done before. He came out of nowhere and single handily saved the Knicks' season for a duration of the season. That is fantastic. That also has nothing to do with the fact that he's Asian.


Unknown players have had breakout seasons in the past and have led teams to good seasons, so you're wrong on that end. Again, are you arguing that Lin isn't the first Asian American player in the NBA because that was my point.



> 4.)Yes, this shouldn't have anything to do with being a president or being an NBA player, that's what I've been saying the entire time. And yes again, this is about Jeremy Lin beating the odds as a basketball player.


But the logic is the same. People cheered for them because they beat odds. One was the president, the other was a basketball player. I compared the two on that aspect and for some reason you cannot get past the differences.



> 5.) I am not an aspiring basketball player, artist, musician, chef, or actor. Therefore, basketball players, artists, musicians, chefs, and actors do not inspire me. I do however, enjoy basketball, art, music, food, and movies. So I can appreciate and respect these people, their work, and their dedication. I'm not seeing where the problem is here.


This is another great example of your ignorance. Because you have an one track mind and cannot find inspiration across different fields of life you feel the need to insult those who can. When people see a great painting or hear a great song they are inspired by their creativity. When people see a successful athlete they are inspired by their hard work. It doesn't mean that people have then turn around and play basketball and try to draw to be able to appreciate these people. Those people aren't "jokes" according to you.


----------



## c_dog

after finally reading through those last couple posts i have concluded that

1)everybody outside of luke agree that asians wanting to support jeremy lin is NOT racist and is perfectly understandable (unless you were completely ignorant like Luke). Luke simply can't imagine himself being in a minority race and seeing his own succeed in a society where another race has dominated at every level. He just doesn't get it. I'm done arguing this. Ignorance is bliss. I want Luke to be happy.

2)Everybody except me think that Kyle Lowry is a better player than Jeremy Lin. This we will have to wait til next season to find out. I think Lowry is a good defensive pg for sure. But I think Jeremy is the way better offensive player save for the all-to-often turnovers. If Jeremy were to improve his decisions on the court and cut down his turnovers this wouldn't even be close. For a player entering his 3rd season and only getting better vs an establish veteran on his 7th season, I think the odds are on Jeremy's side that he will be better next season. We will see though. Guys are welcome to dig this thread up and laugh at me for predicting that Lin would end up better than Lowry and I'll gladly eat crow then.


----------



## R-Star

c_dog said:


> after finally reading through those last couple posts i have concluded that
> 
> 1)everybody outside of luke agree that asians wanting to support jeremy lin is NOT racist and is perfectly understandable (unless you were completely ignorant like Luke). Luke simply can't imagine himself being in a minority race and seeing his own succeed in a society where another race has dominated at every level. He just doesn't get it. I'm done arguing this. Ignorance is bliss. I want Luke to be happy.
> 
> 2)Everybody except me think that Kyle Lowry is a better player than Jeremy Lin. This we will have to wait til next season to find out. I think Lowry is a good defensive pg for sure. But I think Jeremy is the way better offensive player save for the all-to-often turnovers. If Jeremy were to improve his decisions on the court and cut down his turnovers this wouldn't even be close. For a player entering his 3rd season and only getting better vs an establish veteran on his 7th season, I think the odds are on Jeremy's side that he will be better next season. We will see though. Guys are welcome to dig this thread up and laugh at me for predicting that Lin would end up better than Lowry and I'll gladly eat crow then.


You try to paint a picture like Asians are some downtrodden race being held back by the oppressive whites and Jeremy Lin is some sort of ray of light for you guys though.

I side with the way Seifer words it. There's pretty much no successful Asians in the NBA and that is why Lin is a hero to Asian people.

It has nothing to do with being a minority race. White guys aren't in the NBA because they're white, they're there because they're good. Obviously the same goes for blacks, and any other race.

Maybe I'm reading too much into your take though and misconstruing it.


----------



## Luke

seifer0406 said:


> Except your point 2 says that there are successful white people and successful white players. Why don't you just say that the sky is blue, it has nothing to do with your point. When you list 6 points, you are listing 6 points that support your argument. This supports nothing.


I wasn't making an argument. I made a list that listed six examples of points that you referenced through this back and forth. Not an argument. Remember, I don't know why I'm ignorant!




seifer0406 said:


> Unknown players have had breakout seasons in the past and have led teams to good seasons, so you're wrong on that end. Again, are you arguing that Lin isn't the first Asian American player in the NBA because that was my point.


An undrafted point guard has never gone from the brink of being cut to saving a franchise's season in a matter of months. It has never happened. That was my point. 



seifer0406 said:


> But the logic is the same. People cheered for them because they beat odds. One was the president, the other was a basketball player. I compared the two on that aspect and for some reason you cannot get past the differences.


Yes, people cheered for them because they beat the odds. Lin went from being a nobody to being the biggest star in the NBA for a month. That alone deserves praise.



seifer0406 said:


> This is another great example of your ignorance. Because you have an one track mind and cannot find inspiration across different fields of life you feel the need to insult those who can. When people see a great painting or hear a great song they are inspired by their creativity. When people see a successful athlete they are inspired by their hard work. It doesn't mean that people have then turn around and play basketball and try to draw to be able to appreciate these people. Those people aren't "jokes" according to you.


I insult others? You've been the one dishing out insults this entire debate.

My brother is an accountant. When he is driving to work in the morning and hears a great song I'm sure that he can appreciate the musician's creativity and respect the artist as an individual who has mastered his or her craft. Does hearing that song "inspire" him to be a better accountant? I don't think so. Does a construction worker feel "inspired" to work harder on his current project because he goes to an art museum on his day off? I don't think so.


----------



## seifer0406

Luke said:


> I wasn't making an argument. I made a list that listed six examples of points that you referenced through this back and forth. Not an argument. Remember, I don't know why I'm ignorant!


So your point is you are ignorant because there are successful white people and successful white basketball players.

I think you're crossing the line of ignorance and into the field of retardation.



> An undrafted point guard has never gone from the brink of being cut to saving a franchise's season in a matter of months. It has never happened. That was my point.


so now it's an undrafted point guard? I thought it was just a player coming out of nowhere?

btw, it doesn't even matter since the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. People cheered for him for both reasons.



> I insult others? You've been the one dishing out insults this entire debate.
> 
> My brother is an accountant. When he is driving to work in the morning and hears a great song I'm sure that he can appreciate the musician's creativity and respect the artist as an individual who has mastered his or her craft. Does hearing that song "inspire" him to be a better accountant? I don't think so. Does a construction worker feel "inspired" to work harder on his current project because he goes to an art museum on his day off? I don't think so.


You said that people who are inspired by professional athletes are jokes. You also disrespected professional athletes by reducing their work to someone who's good at a child's game. Those people are entertainers, theres a place for them in our society just like theres a place for actors, singers, artists.

I'm not even going to address your second paragraph since frankly it's the dumbest thing I've ever read. If that's how you feel about these professions then I don't know how to even begin explaining these things to you.


----------



## seifer0406

btw, since you said that doctors are presidents are people that can generate inspiration, are you a doctor or a president. 

EDIT- Please refrain from insulting other members.


----------



## Luke

I never insulted a specific person. You've been insulting me in just about every single one of your replies. But good try.

I'm tired of this conversation. You're opinion isn't going to change and neither is mine. So I'll end with this -

For the third time - Racism is defined *in the dictionary* as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race". You have openly stated that there should not be a problem with people giving preferential treatment to an individual based on his race. You are by definition, a defender of racism. And anyone who gives Lin preferential treatment because of his race is a racist. That's not my opinion, that the definition of a term. This conversation is over.

Period.


----------



## seifer0406

Luke said:


> I never insulted a specific person. You've been insulting me in just about every single one of your replies. But good try.
> 
> I'm tired of this conversation. You're opinion isn't going to change and neither is mine. So I'll end with this -
> 
> For the third time - Racism is defined *in the dictionary* as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race". You have openly stated that there should not be a problem with people giving preferential treatment to an individual based on his race. You are by definition, a defender of racism. And anyone who gives Lin preferential treatment because of his race is a racist. That's not my opinion, that the definition of a term. This conversation is over.
> 
> Period.


Because it's better to insult an entire group of people rather than a single person.

You have no clue on what racism is just like you have no clue on how a society functions. If you want to call everyone here a racist go ahead since I have no problem with the title when it's coming from someone like you.


----------



## Luke

Someone like me? So now I'm a dictionary?

Creative.


----------



## R-Star

You two aren't going to agree. Wrap it up or take it to a thread in rants.


----------



## R-Star

Just kidding. Do whatever you want. I just like knowing some people are reading that thinking "Did R-Star of all people just tell these guys to stay on topic? Is he ****ing drunk?"


----------



## seifer0406

Luke said:


> Someone like me? So now I'm a dictionary?
> 
> Creative.


no, I clearly stated that you're someone who's clueless.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Just kidding. Do whatever you want. I just like knowing some people are reading that thinking "Did R-Star of all people just tell these guys to stay on topic? Is he ****ing drunk?"


Drunk R-Star would never stop an argument. Drunk R-Star would have called seifer out by pointing out that I am not a dictionary, but more of an encyclopedia or something. And then you would have proceeded to call me the most ignorant encyclopedia of all time while simultaneously challenging me by saying that I could never out-drink you despite my thousands of pages of information. Then you would make fun of doctordrizzay.

Then the fight would be over.


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## R-Star

That's why R-Star is also known as Internet Jesus. 

No drinking at work. Its in R-Stars internet Bible.


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## Luke

seifer0406 said:


> no, I clearly stated that you're someone who's clueless.


No, you dodged the entire point of my post (hint: the part where the literal definition of racism proved my point) and insulted me some more. And now you are continuing with the insults. Feel free to continue.

Quick! Make another retard joke!


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## seifer0406

Luke said:


> No, you dodged the entire point of my post (hint: the part where the literal definition of racism proved my point) and insulted me some more. And now you are continuing with the insults. Feel free to continue.
> 
> Quick! Make another retard joke!


I don't know how you could have missed the part where I said that people cheer Lin because he's the first of his ethnic group to make the NBA, but whatever, I'm tired as well.

But since we're on the topic of dodging points, are you a doctor or a president? How come those two jobs are jobs that can generate inspiration?

btw, if you're going to say something stupid I'm going to call you out on it. Don't take it as an insult, take it as a lesson that I'm generously giving you.


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## Porn Player

Give that lesson with the love of a teacher. Not a rabid dog. 

Debate is great, but do so politely. You joined a message board to discuss topics with people, Luke is engaging you and you're not respecting him. 

If I see another 'retard' comment or hint at one, you'll be receiving a warning.


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## Luke

seifer0406 said:


> I don't know how you could have missed the part where I said that people cheer Lin because he's the first of his ethnic group to make the NBA, but whatever, I'm tired as well.


You are defending racism. If you're confused as to how, look through the last page. The definition is posted three times in case you missed it.



seifer0406 said:


> But since we're on the topic of dodging points, are you a doctor or a president? How come those two jobs are jobs that can generate inspiration?


I'm in college, so no. 

Barack Obama is the leader of my country. I'm going to go ahead and say that he's a more influential figure than a guy that throws a ball in a hoop for a living. But please, feel free to go back into my prior posts and misconstrue my words for the benefit of your argument. 

I'm a psychology major. Eventually I would like to be a psychiatrist. 



seifer0406 said:


> btw, if you're going to say something stupid I'm going to call you out on it. Don't take it as an insult, take it as a lesson that I'm generously giving you.


I said something stupid?


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## seifer0406

Luke said:


> You are defending racism. If you're confused as to how, look through the last page. The definition is posted three times in case you missed it.


I'm not defending racism, I'm explaining to you how this isn't racism.

Let me try to curve it a bit to see if this works. Let's say 5 more Asian Americans make it to the NBA, I can guarantee you that the 5th one would only receive a portion of the enthusiasm that Jeremy Lin received. So somehow these racist people that cheered for Jeremy Lin have magically became less racist by not cheering for the 6th Asian American player the same way that they cheered for the 1st Asian American player. In fact, a lot of people might not even care about the 6th Asian American player because they've become too common. Thus those people are no longer racists according to you. Do you follow what I'm saying?



> I'm in college, so no.
> 
> Barack Obama is the leader of my country. I'm going to go ahead and say that he's a more influential figure than a guy that throws a ball in a hoop for a living. But please, feel free to go back into my prior posts and misconstrue my words for the benefit of your argument.
> 
> I'm a psychology major. Eventually I would like to be a psychiatrist.


I'm not comparing their degree of influence, I'm pointing out why your notion that people can only be inspired by those that relate to their own profession is ridiculous. On one end you give a cockamamie theory on how your accountant brother cannot be inspired by an artist because an artist's work doesn't relate to what he does everyday, on the other end you're saying that Obama who leads a country can inspire you who have led no one.

I have poked more holes in your theory than a piece of swiss cheese.



> I said something stupid?


Since Porn is here I'm going to say no.


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## Luke

seifer0406 said:


> I'm not defending racism, I'm explaining to you how this isn't racism.
> 
> Let me try to curve it a bit to see if this works. Let's say 5 more Asian Americans make it to the NBA, *I can guarantee you that the 5th one would only receive a portion of the enthusiasm that Jeremy Lin received. * So somehow these racist people that cheered for Jeremy Lin have magically became less racist by not cheering for the 6th Asian American player the same way that they cheered for the 1st Asian American player. In fact, a lot of people might not even care about the 6th Asian American player because they've become too common. Thus those people are no longer racists according to you. Do you follow what I'm saying?


Uh. No you can't? You can't guarantee something that is speculation. Do you follow what I'm saying?



seifer0406 said:


> I'm not comparing their degree of influence, I'm pointing out why your notion that people can only be inspired by those that relate to their own profession is ridiculous. On one end you give a cockamamie theory on how your accountant brother cannot be inspired by an artist because an artist's work doesn't relate to what he does everyday, on the other end you're saying that Obama who leads a country can inspire you who have led no one.
> 
> I have poked more holes in your theory than a piece of swiss cheese.


Eh. I wasn't careful enough in making sure that all of my ramblings on a message board were coherent and cohesive. Congratulations.


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## Porn Player

Much better. 

Thanks. 

FWIW, Lin deserves to be cheered for who he is. A basketball player. An underdog. A Harvard kid. An Asian-American. 

If you follow him for any of those reasons, it's fine. People enjoying cheering for those they can relate too. 

Still, Lowry >> 

He's on the court at 6am everyday perfecting his game. Gotta respect that hustle.


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## seifer0406

Porn Player said:


> Much better.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> FWIW, Lin deserves to be cheered for who he is. A basketball player. An underdog. A Harvard kid. An Asian-American.
> 
> If you follow him for any of those reasons, it's fine. People enjoying cheering for those they can relate too.
> 
> Still, Lowry >>
> 
> He's on the court at 6am everyday perfecting his game. Gotta respect that hustle.


You're a racist


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## seifer0406

Luke said:


> Uh. No you can't? You can't guarantee something that is speculation. Do you follow what I'm saying?
> 
> 
> 
> Eh. I wasn't careful enough in making sure that all of my ramblings on a message board were coherent and cohesive. Congratulations.


Right


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## -James-

Luke said:


> That is not my definition of racism. Racism is defined in the dictionary as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race". Anyone, not just an Asian, who prefers Jeremy Lin over Kyle Lowry because Jeremy Lin is Asian is racist literally by definition.
> 
> Aren't we supposed to live in a world where race should not dictate how we view an individual? Isn't that the point of tolerance in the first place?
> 
> If an aspiring black quarterback wanted to model his game after Cam Newton instead of Aaron Rodgers because he enjoys the way Cam Newton plays football then he is not a racist. If an aspiring black quarterback chose to favor Cam Newton over Aaron Rodgers because Cam is black and Aaron is white, then yeah, he's a racist.


Let me correct myself then, I think you need to seriously consider reevaluating your _interpretation_ of racism - you weren't saying all this "Lin over Lowry" stuff before, you said anyone who follows Lin because he's Asian is a racist. So I'm going to call bullshit on this definition stuff because simply liking a player for whatever is not being prejudicial to anyone. Liking Lin doesn't mean you suddenly dislike all the black guys.

To me, Linsanity as it relates to these Asian pseudo-basketball fans is whatever to me, if slightly annoying, but definitely not something to get worked up about.


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## c_dog

Rooting for one of your fellow minority when seeing them succeed is NOT racist. It is more about having cultural pride than anything, cheering for one's own. Calling that racist is politically incorrect on so many levels.

Seifer I think you're just wasting energy trying to educate the ignorant. Let's face it there are many ignorant people in this world and a few million words typed out on a basketball forum isn't going to change the way they think.


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## seifer0406

I think when someone is this defensive about racism it makes them look like racists themselves. It's like how a lot of homophobic people are really closeted homosexuals. 

A normal person would not look at the "Linsanity" situation and come to the conclusion that people that are cheering him are racists unless he's so scared about being exposed as a racist. And it would be one thing if he can actually present his thoughts in a logical way. His whole reasoning to why it would be impossible to be inspired by an athlete is just comical.


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## seifer0406

btw, I just read George Washington's cherry tree story but since there are no longer any imperial powers to overthrow that story is useless to me.

**On second thought I could overthrow Porn's ban on making comments about the guy's intelligence. I'm sick and tired of British people telling us what to do.


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## Porn Player

:laugh:


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


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