# This seasons Two Rookies with



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*The Knicks two rookies this season along with last season 3-first round rookies would've made a great impact if they had a simple young raw Center like Jackie Butler in the paint.* 

PG/SG-Mardy Collins 

PG/SG-Nate Robinson 

SG/SF-Balkman 

SF/PF-Lee 

C/PF-Frye 

C/PF-Butler 

*Playing these SIX-PLAYERS in a rotation with Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Richardson would've gave this season Knicks all the young energy they needed to WIN more than 35 games and make the playoffs.* 

Without Eddy Curry the Knicks would've had to forced Channing Frye to be the Pivot Man in the Paint to work on his lowpost moves all season inwhich he could've took alot of his Big Oponents outside to take Jumpers over them so teammates Butler, Lee, Q.Richardson, or Balkman can earn some offensive rebounding or easy alley-oop baskets. 

*Why this Knick Team did not have any success in the 2006-7 season?* 

*Not resigning Jackie Butler in the offseason *or even matching that low offer that the Spurs gave him was the road to failure. Especially, when he meshed together so great with all three of the Knicks first-round Rookies last season on both sides of the court *(Did Eddy Curry play as well as Jackie Butler did with all three of the Knicks first round rookies? NO!). *

The treatment that was given to the 3-second season players (Frye, Lee, and Nate, without Jackie Butler.) that supposed to be this team Future Players. 

Channing Frye was the Knicks first selection in their 3-first-round picks and should've been treated and coached as the number-one First Round selection in his second season in the NBA, rather than thrown to the side (way outside) while the entire Knick Coaching Staff just worked with Eddy Curry throughout the season as if he was Rookie Lebron James. The Knicks was suposed to have TWO deadly threats downlow this season playing the Center-Position in Curry (playing BIG) and Channing Frye (playing small). *Poor-Poor-Poor Coaching by President/G.M. Isiah Thomas. 

P.S. By the way, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and Melo dont receive half of all the attention from their coaching staff as Eddy Curry received this season from the Knicks organization.*


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## Cager (Jun 13, 2002)

I was shocked this summer when the Knicks let Butler go. He was so much better than James and at times he looked as good as Eddy last year. If nothing else, Butler would have been able to push Eddy in practice. With proper coaching, Butler could be a poor man's Curry on offense but a much better rebounder and defender, i.e. a better all-around player.

The tragedy this year was the regression in the play of Frye. If it was due to poor coaching or lack of coaching attention, then the Knicks future is not so bright. Lee showed last year that he was a keeper. It took Isiah too long to recognize that. Balkman may turn out to be a player.

If the coaching staff can interest the stars of this team to play defense and sacrifice for the good of the team then the Knicks will easily make the playoffs next year. But that wil;l mean that Curry, Crawford, Marbury and Francis will need to understand that scoring or being flashy doesn't win games.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> *The Knicks two rookies this season along with last season 3-first round rookies would've made a great impact if they had a simple young raw Center like Jackie Butler in the paint.*
> 
> PG/SG-Mardy Collins
> 
> ...



Eddy Curry may not be a LeBron James but he certainly has the tools to emerge as one of the game's most dangerous players. Realistically speaking, no one else on our team possess' that kind of potential so its only natural that we look to develop Curry as the centerpiece of our team; anyone with common sense would. Curry does possess notable flaws in his game but that is only natural for a 24 year old big man, especially one who did not attend college. He has plenty of years ahead of him where he'll have the opportunity to improve and probably will.

As for Frye, he's had every opportunity to find his place in this system and has not. He still has opportunities for jump shots, to post up and to take the ball to the basket, outside of the offense, but has not. He's still suppose to be the 2nd option on this team but is proving he can not handle that responsibility. That is not Isiah's but his own. No one would change that fact including Jackie Butler who couldn't find time on a Spurs team that needed a center in the first place.

Times are hard right now but they are certainly improving for a young team; note the difference from this year to last. Our progress will be dependent on Curry's improvement. So far he has shown and stated that he is willing to accept that responsibility. I'm willing to see how far he goes with it before I deem this experiment as a failure because he has managed to help turn this team around significantly.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

butler isn't exactly lighting it up in San Antonio LOL


I never liked butler that much anyway.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i like jackie just fine , but he's played 46 minutes this season , you can blame zeke for some things but jackie killed his own season by being so out of shape Coach Pop wont use him....i have a hard time seeing him having more than a cato-like impact this season with his lack of conditioning.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Come on, Eddy Curry did alright this season. Remember, it could've been a lot worse. He could've turned into Jerome James, but instead he's the best center in the East this season.

The Knicks need to get rid of Marbury and Francis, too bad it's impossible to get rid of either.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

alright, hes been great!! whats with this bashing lately?? weve been surviving on one leg through this season. 

Cmon cut him some slack, Curry doesnt get the ball himself, it all depends if al lthe oter players are havign a good game, he practically GIVES the knicks assists and rebounds. Cmon


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

seifer0406 said:


> Come on, Eddy Curry did alright this season. Remember, it could've been a lot worse. He could've turned into Jerome James, but instead he's the best center in the East this season.
> 
> The Knicks need to get rid of Marbury and Francis, too bad it's impossible to get rid of either.



I think we're fine with either Marbury or Francis, perferably Marbury, but not the both of them. They are a bit difficult to move (in particular Francis) so it's likely we'll have to buyout another major contract. In either case, I think Marbury is developing into the PG we need so if he is able to stay healthy, then we'll be fine. I'm hoping Zeke could land or trade for some guys in the 26 year old range because they'd be young but good enough to help us win now and improve in the future ala the Mavericks and their supporting cast. I really think if we manage to acquire Gerald Wallace and Drew Gooden that we'd be able to start building a cast like that, granted Curry continues to develop as a franchise player.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Alot of the responses get merit, as for Jackie Butler and the Spurs his being on their team and making the 12-man Playoff Roster says he is doing something right in practice with two veteran centers ahead of him on the Spurs (When the Spurs signed veteran-experience C-Elson in the offseason too, it was widely known that 22 year old Jackie Butler playingtime would be zilch unless injuries hit the Spurs already 9-Man rotation before the signing of these two centers.). 
*Look at it this way "C-Jackie Butler with Frye, Lee, and Nate, was Practically becomming the Same thing as the 3-year Nets with C-Collins is/was with K-Mart, Jefferson, Kittles, and Kidd (Outstandingly Great Chemistry on both sides of the court). They started out in K-Mart second season with C-Collins & Jefferson as Rookies.".* 


*I think its a conspiracy act done to us Knick-Fans for wanting a WINNING Knick Team that goes to the Playoffs each season.* 
The Nets got whup bad last night by Lebron James Crew. 
Today is Friday the 13th, the day of JASON! lets just hope its not Jason Kidd Tripple-Double night on the Poor Knicks (the Knicks could use a WIN over the tired Nets tonight). 

I like the way Rookie Mardy Collins handle his role against Detroits Billups, Rip, and Prince. He was even doing good in the first half of the Chicago Bulls game against Hindrich, Gordon, and Deng, untill Deng took off to the next level of his talents and embarrased Curry, Jefferies & Frye on both ends of the court in the second half. 
Now, Mardy Collins get to face the PG-King of the NBA Mr. Jason Kidd tonight, plus the offense PG-Rookie Marcus Williams. Rookie Mardy Collins got a Big task on his hands tonight defending them two players which switch-up alot with the outstanding play of Vince Carter & Jefferson. 

*My biggest Problem lies within Channing Frye.*
I know the Knick Team was coached backwards this season in every area of the game, but Channing Frye performance was just pitiful to watch in any game this season as if he was the last pick of the 2nd round in the 2007 draft. 
You would think that the Knicks Head Coach would've benched Channing Frye for three to five games to get his act together with all the repeated bad performances each game, but the coach didnt. I guess because the head coach was getting even worst performances than Frye's from Jared Jefferies (and No defense-Curry million ways to committ TURNOVERS each game was'nt making Frye look to bad either.). 

*This was supposed to be Channing Frye come-out season, to show everyone he was supposed to be a Top Lottery pick last season. 
It also was supposed to be David Lee & Nate Robinson Big Come-Out season to prove that Coach Larry Brown Bench Chains is what held them back in their rookie season.* 
*Being that we rarely seen these three young first round picks on the court together in their second season in the NBA we Knick-Fans should know now who been holding these three young Players back since arriving in the NBA.* *Especially,* when that same person refuse to match a 4-year offer worth $7 million dollars to the best BIG-Man (Jackie Butler) on the Knick Roster that had great chemistry with all three of the Knicks first round draft picks in their rookie season. *It's SAVING-FACE-*
*President/Coach Isiah Thomas aka Zeke*


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> Alot of the responses get merit, as for Jackie Butler and the Spurs his being on their team and making the 12-man Playoff Roster says he is doing something right in practice with two veteran centers ahead of him on the Spurs (When the Spurs signed veteran-experience C-Elson in the offseason too, it was widely known that 22 year old Jackie Butler playingtime would be zilch unless injuries hit the Spurs already 9-Man rotation before the signing of these two centers.).
> *Look at it this way "C-Jackie Butler with Frye, Lee, and Nate, was Practically becomming the Same thing as the 3-year Nets with C-Collins is/was with K-Mart, Jefferson, Kittles, and Kidd (Outstandingly Great Chemistry on both sides of the court). They started out in K-Mart second season with C-Collins & Jefferson as Rookies.".*
> 
> 
> ...



Jackie Butler had every oppurtunity to secure a position as "the" center on the Spurs but failed to do so, losing time to PF's like Robert Horry earlier in the season and later being supplanted by Melvin Ely. That does not sound as a ringing endorsement for Jackie nor encourages the notion that Butler would have been any significance to this Knick team that is fairly secure at the big man spots; I don't ever see that cast approaching that talent of that former Nets team.

As far as Frye, you criticize Isiah for not paying enough attention for him but also criticize him for giving him minutes. Which one is it because I'm confused as hell? It's obvious that Isiah giving him minutes shows that he was giving Frye the opportunity to find himself in our offense so I don't understand what your complaints are. Honestly, I don't see much if any of your argument.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> Jackie Butler had every oppurtunity to secure a position as "the" center on the Spurs but failed to do so, losing time to PF's like Robert Horry earlier in the season and later being supplanted by Melvin Ely. That does not sound as a ringing endorsement for Jackie nor encourages the notion that Butler would have been any significance to this Knick team that is fairly secure at the big man spots; I don't ever see that cast approaching that talent of that former Nets team.


He showed quite a bit of promise last year, saying this year he's been a massive disappointment would be an understatement. However the reason for not retaining him was amusing.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

seifer0406 said:


> Come on, Eddy Curry did alright this season. Remember, it could've been a lot worse. He could've turned into Jerome James, but instead he's the best center in the East this season.
> 
> The Knicks need to get rid of Marbury and Francis, too bad it's impossible to get rid of either.


Sup Seifer! :wave: Go Yanks! You right about Curry, I thought he was fairly decent, but I like him to work on his rebounding and defense this summer. I did see improvement from last year nevertheless.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Question for the Curry gushers...*

I think we all admit his low post game became more refined. He also added stamina (although he averages a not particularly impressive 35 minutes). Where is all this improvement? His boards are down per minute. His assists are down per minute. His turnovers are slightly up per minute. His blocks are down per minute and his FT% was down. Indicates to me that the more he plays the LESS effective he becomes. I didn't include his defense because I never saw any to judge. Better scorer......worse in all other aspects. I maintain that this team will go only as far as his passing, defense, and rebounding improvement take us.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Question for the Curry gushers...*



alphaorange said:


> I think we all admit his low post game became more refined. He also added stamina (although he averages a not particularly impressive 35 minutes). Where is all this improvement? His boards are down per minute. His assists are down per minute. His turnovers are slightly up per minute. His blocks are down per minute and his FT% was down. Indicates to me that the more he plays the LESS effective he becomes. I didn't include his defense because I never saw any to judge. Better scorer......worse in all other aspects. I maintain that this team will go only as far as his passing, defense, and rebounding improvement take us.



Being a "Curry gushers," I'll explain this once again. While what you say is true, the key is not what he is doing per minute but rather how long he is able to stay on the floor. In the past, he was only capable of about 25mpg or so before being totally exhausted or rendered inefficient. This year, he has figured out a way to stay on the court longer (an increase in conditioning and intelligence) which is what will ultimately allow him to improve. I think people forget that Curry was a high schooler before coming to the NBA and has never really seen competition capable of matching up to him until the NBA. That means he has only had about 5 prior seasons where his worth as a player was challenged by pros who did not give up height or strength advantage to him on a nightly basis. In a sense, Curry has been learning the game from scratch all over and has managed to prove that he is capable of being something in this league. The next step is to improve his overall game which he never had to refine in college and now will have to oppurtunity to get the experience by playing in games longer. He has never really had that oppurtunity in the past so naturally he is bound to experience some growing pains here and there but it will ultimately be worth it. We've been seeing his rebounding numbers and free throw numbers improving recently and that is reflective of this belief. He even appears to be focused enough to do that, getting that tattoo and making bold statements regarding himself as well as the team, such as this team not being successful this year. Give the 24 year old center a chance before righting him off because after all, big men usually take longer to develop anyway.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

This thread makes me feel bad for Jackie. I thought he had something going for himself last year for a little while.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Let's go to the tape......*

Eddy Curry:

FG%.........4th

Scoring.....23rd

Rebounding..43rd

Blocks......107th

TOs.........6th (doesn't include passes not handled; charged to passer)

PER of 17 when the LEAGUE AVERAGE is 15. This includes all players.

Does this remotely look like the profile of an allstar, much less a franchise player? If this is the type of player we are going to build around, we are in trouble. There is NOTHING to suggest he will improve enough to be "the man" on a contender. Right now it's just hope and a prayer. Again, these are facts. If you care to dispute these, please have the courtesy to build your case on "what is", or ABSOLUTELY "will be". All these trade suggestions that add role players that help overcome Curry's deficiencies are just disguising team weaknesses. What we should be looking for is a real number one option who will make Curry a dynamite number 2. He will still need to improve rebounding and defense, though.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Let's go to the tape......*



alphaorange said:


> Eddy Curry:
> 
> FG%.........4th
> 
> ...


If your not going to acknowledge or directly respond to the points of my post, I'll just essentially repost everything I said since it's obvious you have not comprehend what I have had to say. Once again, we have a 24 year old center that is about the same age as the guys that just came out of this years draft. To assume that he'd come in and dominate using an all-around game is just foolish because it is not realistic. Seldom do you see any rookie strive in several facets of this game outside a few rarities and even fewer happen to be big men because of the responsibilities incoporated into being one. 

So far, the biggest and most important strive Eddy has made has been his ability to stay on the court. Why? Like I said, the learning curve for a big man is much greater than a swingman so the only thing that will put Curry on course to honing his skills will be the experience he gains from extended play. He's never had the kind of competition to really challeng him, so essentially he has only really played a competitive game until fairly recently. Naturally, you should not expect for everything to come to him all at once. You should also not write him off as a one-dimensional player because he has made the attempt to develop what he already does best, and has become a hell of alot more focused with the new responsibilities bestowed onto him. Your welcome to shoot out all the stats you want but they have no ground since we're talking about a 24 year old that will undoubtedly improve.


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## Cager (Jun 13, 2002)

Hey Twinkle Foot; it is absolutely not a given that Eddy will significantly improve where he is currently weak. Yes, he is only 24 but he now has 6 years of NBA experience and three years of being a starter.
You cannot honestly say that you have seen any consistent improvement in Eddy's defense, rebounding or passing. So he can now play more minutes. Unless Eddy starts really working on his game and his body this summer then I would bet he will always be what he is. A very strong low post scorer that causes you problems on the other end of the court. I don't know why Eddty would start working hard at his game since verybody gives his such positive reinforcement for being one dimnensional. You've got to know that Eddy has no internal fire in him to be a great basketball player. He is satisfied with how he is doing. Remember his quote when Isiah got his new contract, " that takes the pressure off this season". That was enough for Eddy for 2006/2007 and his play right after that demonstrated that the Knicks had accomplished their real mission for the year.

It is hard not to like Eddy because he is such a nice guy and has tremendous potential. I have studied Eddy since he came in the league and have been convinced many times that he has turned the corner. But I have basically seen the same Eddy for the last 3.5 years. Right now I'd be worried abnout Eddy hitting 400 pounds before he turns 30.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Cager said:


> Hey Twinkle Foot; it is absolutely not a given that Eddy will significantly improve where he is currently weak. Yes, he is only 24 but he now has 6 years of NBA experience and three years of being a starter.
> You cannot honestly say that you have seen any consistent improvement in Eddy's defense, rebounding or passing. So he can now play more minutes. Unless Eddy starts really working on his game and his body this summer then I would bet he will always be what he is. A very strong low post scorer that causes you problems on the other end of the court. I don't know why Eddty would start working hard at his game since verybody gives his such positive reinforcement for being one dimnensional. You've got to know that Eddy has no internal fire in him to be a great basketball player. He is satisfied with how he is doing. Remember his quote when Isiah got his new contract, " that takes the pressure off this season". That was enough for Eddy for 2006/2007 and his play right after that demonstrated that the Knicks had accomplished their real mission for the year.
> 
> It is hard not to like Eddy because he is such a nice guy and has tremendous potential. I have studied Eddy since he came in the league and have been convinced many times that he has turned the corner. But I have basically seen the same Eddy for the last 3.5 years. Right now I'd be worried abnout Eddy hitting 400 pounds before he turns 30.


Cager, you made a valid point that Curry MAY not necessarily hone an all around game. I'm aware of that myself but felt I needed to explain the possibility to alphaorange since he obviously did not get the message that Curry is still a very young player and can improve as a result. Granted, he might not necessarily develop any other facets of his game that he could turn to too help the team but I think he'll get better in those aspects regardless. How much better is the question. I also don't necessarily agree that Curry has not shown consistent improvement as of late. During this month despite all the injuries and the fact Curry gained even more responsibilities, averaged 20.8ppg, 8.2rpg, on 60.9% shooting and 71.4% free throw shooting. Overall, Curry averages 19.4ppg, 7.1 rpg on 57.6% shooting and 61.5% free throw shooting. All of those numbers are up and that is in spite of a 4 point, 7 rebound performance against the Bulls on April 10th.

I don't think its fair to say that Curry has no "internal fire." I had this conversation earlier with none other than Mr.Alphaorange who attempted to make the argument that Curry scores because he is so big. If that really were the case, guys like Danny Fortson, Erick Dampier and Adonal Foyle would be offensive juggernauts. Curry scores because it has been something he has developed and continues to develop as he attempts to add range to his offensive game. With the franchise title assigned to him, the focus is starting to shift away from being an offensive player to more of a complete player. His rebounding numbers as of late have gone up as well as his ability to go to the line. Although his defensive improvement is debateable but I feel Curry is alot more aware on that end of the floor and puts forth more effort than what has been shown in the recent past. Granted, the other aspects of his game is not where they need to be but they are getting there. His tattoo bolsters his desire to get better after that All-Star snub, "Bruised But Never Broken." Its obvious his taking things alot more personnel and to get the recognition he feels he deserves, he has made bold statement and made the effort to improve his game.

You just can not underestimate the importance of what more time on the floor means. While Curry may have been a starter for 3 seasons, he hardly got very much time during that stretch. Minutes are so important for a young player, especially one like Curry, because his deficiencies on the floor can only be solved by experience. Many continue to fault Eddy's defense but a large part of good defensive player is the fimilarity of different offensive sets. Was he suppose to gain that fimilarity on the sidelines? The same can be said about rebounds which is all about anticipating where the ball will go after it is shot and how to jocky for position. Realistically speaking, it is not beyond Curry from accomplishing either task with him having the physical gifts that he does. 


As for Curry giving up on this year, his numbers in April just don't reflect that. I mean its obvious that saving Isiah's job was not Curry's real mission when he publicly stated just a few days ago that the Knicks had an unsuccessful season. Let's just give this guy the time he needs because he has made dramatic strides with us.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*What's to respond to?*

You make an asinine statement that he is just 24...like that's some sort of excuse. He has had 6 damn years. How is Howard doing? How good was Duncan at 24? The man has had all the instruction and attention he could possibly get, plus more time than he would have gotten in college. For every big man you can name that really blossomed after 5 years(not talking improvement because all players improve over time, for the most part, but big strides), I'll give you 5 that were better, sooner. I defy you to name ONE center that made huge strides after being in the league for 6 years.

Yeah, yeah. I get it. Curry is great scoring when single covered. When doubled, its an even bet on getting a lousy shot or a turnover. He has to improve defense, rebounding, and passing. It ain't all happening. You're whole argument is based hope and opinion....and especially the adage of big men taking longer. While true, I think no one means the better part of a decade...and Curry is past the half-way mark now with no finish line in sight. As I have posted:

Name a title team built around a player as one dimensional as Eddy and 
name a player(center) who has improved dramatically after six NBA seasons. Give a legitimate reason why you believe Curry can and will improve ("because Isiah says so and because big men develop slower" do not count as legitimate reasons. 

A lot of people are buying into IT's propaganda machine, including local sports writers. Depending on the Bulls pick, this could be a very bad trade, and Isiah wants people to believe in the gentle giant.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Starting to get pissed...*

Stop twisting what I say to make yourself look like less of a fool. I never said Curry scores because is big. I have alway recognized his low post skills. Furnish the quote. I also said that Fortson would indeed score more if he was playing against players his size or smaller (like Curry does). Man, you talk down to everyone like you're some sage about big guys because you played center in HS. I know...you've brought your "career" up many times. I notice you also like to say "despite 4 point 7 rebound effort". OK...How about throwing out his best game, too and taking the average. His numbers mean exactly jack the last few weeks. The team could not possibly have needed him more and he could not possibly have come up any shorter. He needed to raise his game since he was the focus and he couldn't do it. I don't know about you, but I watch nearly every game. The numbers don't tell the story. You are just amazing in your stubborn ignorance. You say he MAY not improve his all around game. The reality is that he PROBABLY won't make significant improvement. I can say this because there are NO signs of it. His scoring was always there. He just refined it and got more minutes. You are a dreamer and thank GOD I.T. has saps like you to protect his job. I will expect a long apology and an admission of your total lack of analytical skills at the end of next year when Curry's numbers look much like these with the exception of more shots/points. I, of course, will furnish my own should Curry make your anticipated "leap".


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Btw,*

His tattoo means nothing to me. 95% of the guys in the league have some BBall related tat about drive, desire, work ethic, blah, blah, blah. And there are tons of losers.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*And then you woke up...*



alphaorange said:


> You make an asinine statement that he is just 24...like that's some sort of excuse. He has had 6 damn years. How is Howard doing? How good was Duncan at 24? The man has had all the instruction and attention he could possibly get, plus more time than he would have gotten in college. For every big man you can name that really blossomed after 5 years(not talking improvement because all players improve over time, for the most part, but big strides), I'll give you 5 that were better, sooner. I defy you to name ONE center that made huge strides after being in the league for 6 years.
> 
> Yeah, yeah. I get it. Curry is great scoring when single covered. When doubled, its an even bet on getting a lousy shot or a turnover. He has to improve defense, rebounding, and passing. It ain't all happening. You're whole argument is based hope and opinion....and especially the adage of big men taking longer. While true, I think no one means the better part of a decade...and Curry is past the half-way mark now with no finish line in sight. As I have posted:
> 
> ...



Honestly speaking, you really can not name a center that has dramatically improved after 6 seasons. The thing is though that Eddy Curry is not just any center. What most tend to forget is the fact that he came to the NBA straight out of high school. Not many big men have been in that kind of situation in the past so it is not fair to judge Curry by that standard. Essentially, Curry went from bodying guys maybe 6-8 and 220 at best (once in a while) to a league where teams regularly have big men 6-11 between 230-250 pounds on a nightly 82 game basis. Curry's experience the growing pains of still adjusting to this while not learning the minor nuisances of the game that most learn from college; he essentially went from elementary school to high school without having the preparation of junior high school. Right now, he is attempting to learn the little tricks and trades of the game that will help him refine his overall skill.


As far as a title team built around a one-dimensional player, the Mavericks have with Dirk Nowitki. Dirk certainly isn't the player he was when he first came into the league but he hardly was a multi-faceted player at the time and still gained the confidence of the organization to build around him. Right now, he's a MVP candidate and has a team around him prepared to win the title this year.

So feel free to spew that sort of ignorance of yours. Curry has been in the league 6 seasons but has missed out on a hell of alot of time to season his game properly. He's 24 years old which is not very much older than most rookies this year but has managed to garner All-Star interest. In time, once he gains the experience on the floor, Curry may have much more than All-Star interest.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Btw,*



alphaorange said:


> His tattoo means nothing to me. 95% of the guys in the league have some BBall related tat about drive, desire, work ethic, blah, blah, blah. And there are tons of losers.


Name them....


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Just calling out bull**** and bull****ers when I see it*



alphaorange said:


> Stop twisting what I say to make yourself look like less of a fool. I never said Curry scores because is big. I have alway recognized his low post skills. Furnish the quote. I also said that Fortson would indeed score more if he was playing against players his size or smaller (like Curry does). Man, you talk down to everyone like you're some sage about big guys because you played center in HS. I know...you've brought your "career" up many times. I notice you also like to say "despite 4 point 7 rebound effort". OK...How about throwing out his best game, too and taking the average. His numbers mean exactly jack the last few weeks. The team could not possibly have needed him more and he could not possibly have come up any shorter. He needed to raise his game since he was the focus and he couldn't do it. I don't know about you, but I watch nearly every game. The numbers don't tell the story. You are just amazing in your stubborn ignorance. You say he MAY not improve his all around game. The reality is that he PROBABLY won't make significant improvement. I can say this because there are NO signs of it. His scoring was always there. He just refined it and got more minutes. You are a dreamer and thank GOD I.T. has saps like you to protect his job. I will expect a long apology and an admission of your total lack of analytical skills at the end of next year when Curry's numbers look much like these with the exception of more shots/points. I, of course, will furnish my own should Curry make your anticipated "leap".


You tend to have a short memory and if you continue to deny your comments, I'll bring them back up as I have in the past. Remember that you can not really get away with lies when this stuff is obviously recorded and kept accessible. You had made a statement that Curry is even relatively one dimensional offensively. I responded by stating that Curry simply had go to moves just as a post scorer as Shaq does. You in turn responded by saying that their size allowed them to score which prompted me to bring in the Danny Fortson, Adonal Foyle and Erick Dampier reference. I also find it interesting that you managed to put up a defense for Danny Fortson based on his height but failed to do so for the other two big men who are both 6-10 and 6-11 respectively. What I don't understand is how a guy like Elton Brand or Zaach Randolph who are relatively burly power-forwards manage to score at 6-8 and 6-9 but Fortson can't because of his height. Please, shed us with some of your endless wisdom that never stops.

As for my "career" I only bring that up for references. For as much as the game is different, there are certain aspects of it that always remain constant no matter what level you play it on. I only reference my experiences that can be related to with those constants. Still, I don't know what was the purpose of you bringing that up. Seems my game is resonating on your mind.

As for not removing Curry's best game from consideration to determine the caliber player Eddy is, his best performances are usually likened to what he does on a relatively consistent basis. Why would I do that, knowing that? If you did as you said and remove his best game and his worse game, you'd still essentially end up with the same numbers as I posted earlier, so what is the point your trying to make here?

So, his numbers mean "jack" the past month but you also admit to the fact that they are reflective of his ability to remain the face of this team in strife. Silly me but isn't that the beginning mark of a franchise player? I just don't know why I bother anymore.

You may considered me to be some "sap" protecting Isiah's job but notice that these guys are exactly employed to run a basketball franchise where people like yourself on the opposite end of the spectrum are not. But who knows, you may be right about the whole Curry thing. Extended play in this league does not gaurantee improve just as 51 years on this planet does not gaurantee any sort of intelligence.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I'll take it one at a time*

I declined to use Dampier and Foyal for reasons that I posted in the same response as Fortson. I qualified by saying the player must have a decent offensive game to begin with. You know this but ignored it for your case. Secondly, Brands game is all around...in and out. Curry's is strictly inside, like Fortsons (see the comparison?). Brand also has a 7'+ wingspan. W/O the span and the jumper he is Fortson. Next, it is common practice to remove the highest and lowest entries in order to get a more accurate distribution. You DID know that, right? That is why your example was biased in your favor. Again, I believe you knew that. I do not believe he was the "face"...those are your words. IMO, he was merely the last legitimate offensive threat left and failed to deliver. Some franchise player. I suggest you look closer at his last 20.......several single digit scoring efforts, six rebound or less board efforts, and 5+ TO games. Sad, since this is when he was needed. Most important stretch of the year and he fails. Not say he hasn't had some very good games...he has. He just cannot carry a team.

BTW, when you bring up your career, I just laugh my *** off. Its pathetic. I've played with and against far better players than you ever thought of playing with and all it did was make for great games. It gave me no insight into the nuances of NBA ball. You're right about my age. Nothing is automatic but I like to think I have seen and done enough more than you to have a better idea of what is. I can be wrong, but I'm not about you. Some advice.....don't engage STEP. He really handed it you and you were too dumb to know it.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Just calling out bull**** and bull****ers when I see it*



TwinkieFoot said:


> You tend to have a short memory and if you continue to deny your comments, I'll bring them back up as I have in the past. Remember that you can not really get away with lies when this stuff is obviously recorded and kept accessible. You had made a statement that Curry is even relatively one dimensional offensively. I responded by stating that Curry simply had go to moves just as a post scorer as Shaq does. You in turn responded by saying that their size allowed them to score which prompted me to bring in the Danny Fortson, Adonal Foyle and Erick Dampier reference. I also find it interesting that you managed to put up a defense for Danny Fortson based on his height but failed to do so for the other two big men who are both 6-10 and 6-11 respectively. What I don't understand is how a guy like Elton Brand or Zaach Randolph who are relatively burly power-forwards manage to score at 6-8 and 6-9 but Fortson can't because of his height. Please, shed us with some of your endless wisdom that never stops.
> 
> As for my "career" I only bring that up for references. For as much as the game is different, there are certain aspects of it that always remain constant no matter what level you play it on. I only reference my experiences that can be related to with those constants. Still, I don't know what was the purpose of you bringing that up. Seems my game is resonating on your mind.
> 
> ...


:lol: Look at the smart guy insulting the other poster's intelligence in the same sentence he is using the word "gaurantee."


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*105 - 107 Knicks Lost to the Raptors, sums up the Knicks 2006-7 season. So close yet too-too far away for a WIN.* 

One would've thought the Knicks Roster this season would've been just as tough as the Chicago Bulls Roster. Or 20% better than the Raptors and Magics Roster. 
I guess us Knick-Fans could blame the Knicks Failure this season on the many injuries to the Knick players that happen after the All-Star Weekend (Middle of the season). 

*Would you Keep the same Knick Roster for next season?* 

Guards: Marbury, Francis, Crawford, Nate, Collins 

Fowards: Q.Rich, Frye, Lee, Balkman, Jefferies, Malik, Morris 

Center: Curry, James, Cato


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: Let's go to the tape......*



TwinkieFoot said:


> If your not going to acknowledge or directly respond to the points of my post, I'll just essentially repost everything I said since it's obvious you have not comprehend what I have had to say. Once again, we have a 24 year old center that is about the same age as the guys that just came out of this years draft. To assume that he'd come in and dominate using an all-around game is just foolish because it is not realistic. Seldom do you see any rookie strive in several facets of this game outside a few rarities and even fewer happen to be big men because of the responsibilities incoporated into being one.
> 
> So far, the biggest and most important strive Eddy has made has been his ability to stay on the court. Why? Like I said, the learning curve for a big man is much greater than a swingman so the only thing that will put Curry on course to honing his skills will be the experience he gains from extended play. He's never had the kind of competition to really challeng him, so essentially he has only really played a competitive game until fairly recently. Naturally, you should not expect for everything to come to him all at once. You should also not write him off as a one-dimensional player because he has made the attempt to develop what he already does best, and has become a hell of alot more focused with the new responsibilities bestowed onto him. Your welcome to shoot out all the stats you want but they have no ground since we're talking about a 24 year old that will undoubtedly improve.


*A very strong Justification for the 24 year old Eddy Curry.* 
*I'M SORRY!* but it can not pass or JUSTIFY Eddy Curry 2006-7 season Playingtime. 
*This is a TEAM-SPORT!* Eddy Curry Lacks the most important part of his position as a Center, especially a NBA Center. 
*And that is Eddy Curry PASSING-GAME. Eddy Curry dont know how to PASS the BALL!* 

Every B-Ball team should have a BIG-MAN who knows how to REBOUND and PASS the ball to his teammates. Whether it is an offensive-rebound or a defensive-rebound the rebounder must know how to make the right pass so the rebound is worthy. 
Eddy Curry FAILS in this department, so whatever his stats maybe and how great a scoring game he may have he still FAILS the MAJOR Talent of being a Center in a TEAM-SPORT *(No Passing Talent)... *


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