# Is Kobe as good as Jordan was ?



## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

Can Kobe be compares with Michael Jordan ??

Kobe scores , but he defenses ?

Kobe assits ??


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

Helter Skelter said:


> Can Kobe be compares with Michael Jordan ??
> 
> Kobe scores , but he defenses ?
> 
> Kobe assits ??


This thread is gonna get ugly real quick. :sfight:


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Helter Skelter said:


> Can Kobe be compares with Michael Jordan ??
> 
> Kobe scores , but he defenses ?
> 
> Kobe assits ??


IMO u are going about this the wrong way b/c you cant just look at stats... they dont mean that much when u got two of the best alltime players... MJ never had amazing assts. any way... i dont know for sure but i think Kobes were comparable...

that doesnt matter tho... MJs defense was superior... the only area i think Kobe compares and where I'm starting to think he maybe (and this kills me to say) may be better than (cringe) is in his ability to score... many will point to FG% and that is a fair argument, but that is Kobes shot selection not his scoring ability... 

and that is MJ's biggest strength over Kobe: his decision making... even when MJ was shooting huge amts of shots and dribbling all over the floor he tookpretty smart shots... 

Career wise you cant even compare yet... Kobe may play another 10 years so lets see what he does.. MJ was the greatest winner i've seen he won 6 out of his last 6 years (im not counting Wash or his 17 game baseball season)... 

*I used to say there will never be another MJ, but every year I watch Kobe he makes it harder and harder for me to doubt him... thats why I say **** the comparisons lets just watch the best player in this generation and enjoy the show... worry about who is betterin 2020...* 

one interesting quote is Pippen today on COld Pizza said he could see Kobe becoming the better player... that was wild to me...


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Jorbroni said:


> This thread is gonna get ugly real quick. :sfight:


yea ur right...


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*I'll help it get ugly....*

Kobe is better.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: I'll help it get ugly....*



IV said:


> Kobe is better.


oh god... here it goes...


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: I'll help it get ugly....*



IV said:


> Kobe is better.





IV said:


> Stop comparing other players to Kobe, if you haven't realized yet.... there is no comparision.


enough said! :smilewink


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## grizzos (Jan 31, 2005)

Just curious..

Who would you rather have
Mihm or Rodman
Odom or Pippen
Parker or Harper
Brown or Longley


Kobe has the worst roster that i have ever seen in the nba and he is winning games.

Kobe will have smashed all of jordans records by the time hes done playing. He wont have as many mvps but he will have 4 or 5 rings. Our kids will be saying how great this guy is.. Hate all you want. But he is #2 all team right behind the magical 100 pt game :cheers:


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## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Yeah they are comparable in terms of skills set, their style of play, killer instinct, and fearlessness of taking clutch shots. I think Kobe is a better ballhandler (not by much) and has better range but Mike could care less about 3s since he had a dead-accurate mid-range game and was an amazing penetrator. Both were very creative at getting their own shots off. But Jordan was much smarter with his shot selection. Whenever he hit 40+ pts he was on fire. Kobe kind of forces the issue and continues to shoot even after he cools off. I guess this has to do w/ Kobe's maturity when he became pro and all the media attention he received at such a young age. Michael just understood how to win more than anything. Kobe still has plenty of time to close the gap.


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## Silverdale (Dec 25, 2004)

grizzos said:


> Just curious..
> 
> Who would you rather have
> Mihm or Rodman
> ...


Smashed Jordans Records?? LOL 

So he is going to have more then 10 seasons leading the league in scoring? He is going to lead the league in steals at least twice?? He is going to win another Slam Dunk championship?? His is going to have the highest carreer scoring average in NBA history?? He is going to have the highest scoring average of all time in a finals series? He is going to get a triple double in the allstar game? He is going to have the most pts all time in the history of the all star game and the most steals ever in the allstar game? Those are just a few of the things Kobe still needs to do. And you say he is going to SMASH them?? You made yourself look stupid when you said 

"Kobe will have smashed all of jordans records by the time hes done playing. He wont have as many mvps but he will have 4 or 5 rings."

4 or 5 rings in case you didnt know is not SMASHING 6 rings. Not to mention 6 finals MVPS. I understand is you like kobe and are a lakers fan but dont be dumb. Be realistic. Kobe will not SMASH Michael Jordans Records. He may break a few yes. But Smash them? Give me a break.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

I have often heard it said from MJ's teammates that he could have dropped 25+ in any quarter he wanted to, but didn't because it wasn't what was best for the team. I know that concept is pretty tough for the majority of the people here to understand, but let it percolate for a few years or a decade and maybe some of you will come around.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: I'll help it get ugly....*



shobe42 said:


> oh god... here it goes...


that's right I said it! :bsmile:


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> I have often heard it said from MJ's teammates that *he could have dropped 25+ in any quarter he wanted to, but didn't because it wasn't what was best for the team.* I know that concept is pretty tough for the majority of the people here to understand, but let it percolate for a few years or a decade and maybe some of you will come around.


That is the point. Kobe understood it was best for his team last night!


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

KOBE can shoot the 3-ball.


That's why he has a chance to be a better scorer than MJ, even if he isn't already. It will be interesting to see how this year finishes out. Kobe could top 37.1 ppg if he wills himself too.



The difference is Kobe can shoot the 3-ball with almost anyone in the league. People forget he tied the all-time record for most 3's in a game. If he can continue to shoot the 3 with accuracy, he can become the most potent scorer the game has ever seen....this is not counting Wilt.


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## Silverdale (Dec 25, 2004)

You also say Kobe has the worst roster of anyone in the league but he is winning games. Ok what does that matter if you dont make the playoffs. Michael Jordan with the Bulls made the playoffs every single year of his career. Also of course anyone would rather have the bulls lineup over the lakers current lineup because it was a championship team. Kobe is not going to win a title with that team so dont act like he is doing anything spectaculer. If anything Phil Jackson is responsible for the added wins. Where were the lakers last year? NO playoffs and in the lottery.


Also in the Bulls lineup you posted Scottie Pippen is the only one there to Be a Hall of Famer. Rodman played in one Allstar game when he was in Detroit. Luc was trash,Harper never an allstar.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

ralaw said:


> That is the point. Kobe understood it was best for his team last night!


That may very well be true, but it doesn't make him better than Jordan.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

SeaNet said:


> That may very well be true, but it doesn't make him better than Jordan.


yes it does! :yes:


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Jordan was better because he was willing to play within a team concept.What Kobe is doing now is by his own choice.He chose to play on crappy team where he would be given the license to pursue his own narcissistic goals regardless of what was best for the team.When his shots are falling then everything is fine,but the Lakers are at best a marginal playoff team because of Kobe and in spite of Kobe.As for the roster the Hornets have a far worse roster and they are one full game worse than the Lakers based on a rookie point guard's ability to share the ball with those players.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> That may very well be true, but it doesn't make him better than Jordan.


I never said he was better than Jordan; however, for one night Kobe had a greater individual performance than Jordan ever had.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Diable said:


> Jordan was better because he was willing to play within a team concept.What Kobe is doing now is by his own choice.He chose to play on crappy team where he would be given the license to pursue his own narcissistic goals regardless of what was best for the team.When his shots are falling then everything is fine,but the Lakers are at best a marginal playoff team because of Kobe and in spite of Kobe.As for the roster the Hornets have a far worse roster and they are one full game worse than the Lakers based on a rookie point guard's ability to share the ball with those players.


How has Kobe choose to play on a crappy team?


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

I think Jerry West said it best. "Kobe does some things that look like Michael, but there will NEVER be another Michael". 81 points was impressive, no doubt. I can't stand Kobe, but I'll tip my cap to that. MJ was the better player. Physically and athletically, they are pretty similar. What gives MJ the nod was his ability to break down the game. Until Kobe wins at least 2 championships w/o Shaq, wins a handfull of scoring titles, MVP's, Finals MVP's . . . remember Kobe has NEVER won a scoring title. Kobe has NEVER been MVP. You can't ever start this comparison yet. Maybe someday, but not just because he dropped 81 last night.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Diable said:


> Jordan was better because he was willing to play within a team concept.What Kobe is doing now is by his own choice.He chose to play on crappy team where he would be given the license to pursue his own narcissistic goals regardless of what was best for the team.When his shots are falling then everything is fine,but the Lakers are at best a marginal playoff team because of Kobe and in spite of Kobe.As for the roster the Hornets have a far worse roster and they are one full game worse than the Lakers based on a rookie point guard's ability to share the ball with those players.


Correction Jordan LEARNED to play within a team concept and comparing teams with different players, coaches, and systems is usless. With that logic Rasheed Wallace is better than Tim Duncan.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

SeaNet said:


> I have often heard it said from MJ's teammates that he could have dropped 25+ in any quarter he wanted to, but didn't because it wasn't what was best for the team. I know that concept is pretty tough for the majority of the people here to understand, but let it percolate for a few years or a decade and maybe some of you will come around.


What a bold claim... LOL

If so... any team MJ played on would had been near perfect record wise, and he would have more then a few more championships.

-Petey


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

It almost seems like Kobe, now, has those horrible teams from Jordan's early years. Don't let Lamar Odom's masquerade as a "star" player fool you, he's just a talented role player.

To me, there is a marked difference between willing to play within a team concept that features a team that is capable of executing and finishing, and playing on a team that is full of cast-aways and rejects, NBDL material, and could-have-beens.

The man is 27 years old, already has three rings that cannot be taken away from him. I think that he will start to play in a team concept when he's surrounded with teammates who can get the job done night in, night out. No one on the Lakers outside of Kobe brings that.

No team that doesnt have at least two players bringing their game every night will do well in this league. That is not speculation, that is FACT.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

ralaw said:


> I never said he was better than Jordan; however, for one night Kobe had a greater individual performance than Jordan ever had.


Wrt/ a points in a game measurement, fair enough.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

He scored 81 points, he did it on shooting 60 percent. I see no problem with that. If you are shooting 60 percent, you are shooting better then basically any team as a whole on any night and you should be getting the ball and shooting.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

SeaNet said:


> I have often heard it said from MJ's teammates that he could have dropped 25+ in any quarter he wanted to, but didn't because it wasn't what was best for the team. I know that concept is pretty tough for the majority of the people here to understand, but let it percolate for a few years or a decade and maybe some of you will come around.


c'mon - mj shot alot. alot. let that percolate. he shot alot. he was also an incredible, dynamic scorer, able to shoot alot and still be efficient, thereby helping his team win. 

scoring 25+ in a quarter means your team is probably having a pretty good quarter. 

did mj regulate his output at times? certainly. but i wouldn't paint a picture of mj as the ultimate teammate to play with as far as getting everyone else involved. he did it the way he wanted. when he wanted to take over a game and not mess around with getting touches for luc, he did.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Jordan is still better than Kobe. And I think Kobe will tell you this himself.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Mike had the potential to do this alot.


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## Vinsane (Feb 27, 2005)

MJ averaged 5 assists per game evry year


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Whack Arnolds said:


> Mike had the potential to do this alot.


that's just silly. his career high is 69 points. he shot alot in his day. more than anyone else. he topped 60 4 times. and yes, jordan shot alot.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Jordan was better. Both are/were egotistical *******s. Let's not paint MJ out to be the consummate teammate. He grilled the guys just like Kobe does on a regular basis, punched guys for no reason, etc.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

kflo said:


> that's just silly. his career high is 69 points. he shot alot in his day. more than anyone else. he topped 60 4 times. and yes, jordan shot alot.


Oh I agree, I was exaggerating. But Mike could have done that multiple times.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Vinsane said:


> MJ averaged 5 assists per game evry year


except for every year during the 2nd 3peat.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Whack Arnolds said:


> Oh I agree, I was exaggerating. But Mike could have done that multiple times.


except he never came close.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Like the haters of Kobe don't realize, and how Kobe toned down his game while he was young playing with Shaq, from 1988 on when Pip came and so did Phil, MJ diluted and toned down his game DRAMATICALLY and still averaged 30+ ppg.


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## Kirk64 (Oct 19, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> I have often heard it said from MJ's teammates that he could have dropped 25+ in any quarter he wanted to, but didn't because it wasn't what was best for the team. I know that concept is pretty tough for the majority of the people here to understand, but let it percolate for a few years or a decade and maybe some of you will come around.


Yeah, I'm sure he could have averaged 100 points a game.


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## Intense Enigma (Oct 22, 2005)

Is this thread a joke or something?there is no iceberg chance in hell,that Kobe is as good as Michael Jordan.Please don't even put them in the same sentence.

But i love to watch Kobe play,because he copies every single Michael Jordan mannerism,he talks like MJ,he point his finger to people like MJ,fade away jump shot like MJ,etc,etc,etc.It's awesome. :clap:


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Intense Enigma said:


> Is this thread a joke or something?there is no iceberg chance in hell,that Kobe is as good as Michael Jordan.Please don't even put them in the same sentence.
> 
> But i love to watch Kobe play,because he copies every single Michael Jordan mannerism,he talks like MJ,he point his finger to people like MJ,fade away jump shot like MJ,etc,etc,etc.It's awesome. :clap:


 You forgot "chews his gum like MJ".


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## Intense Enigma (Oct 22, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> You forgot "chews his gum like MJ".


 Man how i forget that? Thanks!!!


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Whack Arnolds said:


> Mike had the potential to do this alot.


had the potential but never did it. Scored 69 on his younger years against the Cavs on OT. A lot of hwat if's but i sincerely dont believe Michael can come up with 80 pts especially with the team he has.


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## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

Now I realize that *Kobe has never won a title*  , and Jordan won three . 

You may say , Kobe has won three , but in this three he was always a secondary player , the mvp was in these finals Shaq .So you can compares Kobe's rings with Paxton's , but Jordan's rings only can be compares with Shaq's.

So at this moment , Kobe has not win a title as leader of his team . He has not be MVP yet !


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Come ON PEOPLE... One night does not make Kobe better than Jordan... Jordan played better defense, he shots a MUCH higher percentage, took less shots, had more assists AND more steals. Won the scoring title 10 TIMES!!!! Kobe hasn't even won it yet! Give me 63 in the playoffs over 81 over the Raptors all day and twice on Sunday even though they lost that game... Jordan averaged 44 points per game that series. So you tell me if he was always on a good team... Averaged 44 ppg and lost... Put up 63 and lost... I personally watched the game and I'd say the last 10 to 12 points were straight up garbage time lets watch Kobe do his thing for the last 6 minutes. Jordan all day and twice on Sunday...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: I'll help it get ugly....*



IV said:


> Kobe is better.


:rofl: Good one!




Oh wait...I think you were actually serious...


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

haha No way this thread exists.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

No one will ever be as good as M.J. was....

NO ONE....



*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: I'll help it get ugly....*

scoring wise.....in every other aspect of the game no possible way, at least for now


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Helter Skelter said:


> Now I realize that *Kobe has never won a title*  , and Jordan won three .
> 
> You may say , Kobe has won three , but in this three he was always a secondary player , the mvp was in these finals Shaq .So you can compares Kobe's rings with Paxton's , but Jordan's rings only can be compares with Shaq's.
> 
> So at this moment , Kobe has not win a title as leader of his team . He has not be MVP yet !


This site just gets worse and worse.

So essentially your saying

MJ = Shaq
Kobe = Paxson

and I guess that would also mean

Pippen = Paxson?

and if

NBA HOF Player = Role Player

Why isn't every team contending?


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

S-Star said:


> Come ON PEOPLE... One night does not make Kobe better than Jordan... Jordan played better defense, he shots a MUCH higher percentage, took less shots, had more assists AND more steals. Won the scoring title 10 TIMES!!!! Kobe hasn't even won it yet! Give me 63 in the playoffs over 81 over the Raptors all day and twice on Sunday even though they lost that game... Jordan averaged 44 points per game that series. So you tell me if he was always on a good team... Averaged 44 ppg and lost... Put up 63 and lost... I personally watched the game and I'd say the last 10 to 12 points were straight up garbage time lets watch Kobe do his thing for the last 6 minutes. Jordan all day and twice on Sunday...


Exactly. I love Kobe, and I love Mike. But one outstanding, once in a lifetime night does not make him better than Jordan who won scoring titles, mvps, and chips year in and year out.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Vinsane said:


> MJ averaged 5 assists per game evry year


Not true! Try again


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## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

Obviously Kobe is not Paxton . I exaggerate when I compare both . But I did to explain it .Pippen would be better to compare.

What is real , is when Kobe won 3 titles , he was a secondary player , the leader in all games was Shaq , that's can not be discussed . Jordan always was the leader .

What I mean , at this moment you can not compare their titles , 'cause Kobe has not be mvp or leader in a ring yet .


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Helter Skelter said:


> Obviously Kobe is not Paxton . I exaggerate when I compare both . But I did to explain it .Pippen would be better to compare.
> 
> What is real , is when Kobe won 3 titles , he was a secondary player , the leader in all games was Shaq , that's can not be discussed . Jordan always was the leader .
> 
> What I mean , at this moment you can not compare their titles , 'cause Kobe has not be mvp or leader in a ring yet .


Kobe was a captain on each of the Laker titles teams. In the 2nd and 3rd year, he was just as valuble as Shaq to winning that titles. Either way, your point doesn't hold because most would argue they would have never won any of those titles with Kobe. You can't discredit Kobe as if he didn't earn his titles, he did.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Helter Skelter said:


> Obviously Kobe is not Paxton . I exaggerate when I compare both . But I did to explain it .Pippen would be better to compare.
> 
> What is real , is when Kobe won 3 titles , he was a secondary player , the leader in all games was Shaq , that's can not be discussed . Jordan always was the leader .
> 
> What I mean , at this moment you can not compare their titles , 'cause Kobe has not be mvp or leader in a ring yet .


 Wrong again. Pippen was the leader. Jordan was just always in the spotlight. Kinda like the current Administration .


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

CLOSE THIS THREAD. just close it.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Chalie Boy said:


> CLOSE THIS THREAD. just close it.


Did you spell you username wrong?


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## Faisal (Jan 18, 2006)

grizzos said:


> Just curious..
> 
> Who would you rather have
> Mihm or Rodman
> ...


Exactly, you could say the same for AI too, Jordan is one of my all time favourites, he got me into basketball but when I see Kobe and especially AI I don't see that much difference in ability, more in image, Kobe and AI are kind of like AntiJordans, compare Iverson's media coverage and background to Jordan's, add the scrubs he has played with for 10 years and you'll see theres no way Jordan could of been any better in AI's shoes. Atleast Kobe had Shaq so he got rings, without the big man he will be like AI over the years, a superstar that can't get his lame teammates a ring on his own.


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## Jasonic1 (Dec 25, 2005)

Kobe is no where near as good, nor will he ever be as good as Jordan was. He only makes so many points in a game because he's a ball hog. He thinks he's the only one on the team that can score at all so he never passes.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Faisal said:


> Exactly, you could say the same for AI too, Jordan is one of my all time favourites, he got me into basketball but when I see Kobe and especially AI I don't see that much difference in ability, more in image, Kobe and AI are kind of like AntiJordans, compare Iverson's media coverage and background to Jordan's, add the scrubs he has played with for 10 years and you'll see theres no way Jordan could of been any better in AI's shoes.


Food for thought:

Give AI / Kobe a:

- All-nba 1st teamer on both teams;
AND
- The best rebounder in the game who is also one of the best defenders in the game.

What COULD be different?


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> No one will ever be as good as M.J. was....
> 
> NO ONE....


I kind of agree, because right now I dont think anyone is relatively close to him. But the reality is that no one will ever let anyone be better than Jordan. Jordan is the most loved player to ever live, and that will never change. Even if someone is better than MJ, the public will refuse to believe it. 95% of the world will never accept anyone as being better than MJ.


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## xPAGANx (Dec 19, 2005)

http://www.nba.com/games/20060122/TORLAL/recap.html

Read that. Then quit this comparison crap.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Why we comparing him to Jordan? Jordan isn't even the best of the past 30 years. He just got lucky and got hyped by a bunch of ad campaigns and hit right when the NBA went global and made stupid Jordan to the MAX movies in large dome theaters. Fanboys act like he's god.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

xPAGANx said:


> http://www.nba.com/games/20060122/TORLAL/recap.html
> 
> Read that. Then quit this comparison crap.


Yup.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Why we comparing him to Jordan? Jordan isn't even the best of the past 30 years. He just got lucky and got hyped by a bunch of ad campaigns and hit right when the NBA went global and made stupid Jordan to the MAX movies in large dome theaters. Fanboys act like he's god.


He was. Except he gambled, and wore Nikes.












































Oh, and had 6 NBA championship rings. :cheers:


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

grizzos said:


> Just curious..
> 
> Who would you rather have
> Mihm or Rodman
> ...


Kobe has the worst roster because he is 

a) A terrible team player
b) Can't get the best out of his teammates


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## The Truth IV (Nov 3, 2005)

People don't give Kobe enough credit for his defense - he shut down AI on the 2000 Finals. Could a young Jordan guard AI? He takes on the other team's top offensive player almost every night - he ate Lebron's food last week. 

Jordan had one of the all-time greatest perimeter defenders in Scottie Pippen, not to mention Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman backing them up. Pippen allowed MJ to save energy for the offensive end.
Bryant is absolutely relentless for the entire game. If he wasn't such a headcase, and could have co-existed with Shaq for a few more years, they could have won more titles and we'd really have a basis to compare KB and MJ.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

The Truth IV said:


> People don't give Kobe enough credit for his defense - he shut down AI on the 2000 Finals.


no he didn't.


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## Intense Enigma (Oct 22, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Why we comparing him to Jordan? Jordan isn't even the best of the past 30 years. He just got lucky and got hyped by a bunch of ad campaigns and hit right when the NBA went global and made stupid Jordan to the MAX movies in large dome theaters. Fanboys act like he's god.


 Are you serious???


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

Intense Enigma said:


> Are you serious???


Seriously in denial, methinks.


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## 2chessy (Jan 23, 2006)

kobe is kobe michael is michael. i repeat kobe one player, michael one player. Not the same player and never will be.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

You could definitely argue that Kobe is a better scorer than MJ. 


KOBE IS A BETTER SCORER THAN MICHAEL JORDAN...


MJ is greater because he won more championships, but as of now, Kobe could score more ways than MJ. The proof is in the pudding. Kobe has had greater scoring games than mike, longer streaks of 40 points or more. Kobe is gonna keep piling up the scoring records.


Now can he win a championship again without a player of Shaq's calibre? That is the ultimate question. If he can, then he will go down as a top 5 player. If he doesn't then it's still debatable.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> No one will ever be as good as M.J. was....
> 
> NO ONE....
> 
> ...


I wouldn't go that far. No one is untouchable...who was the greatest before MJ came along?
Kobe and Lebron have the best shots to become greater than MJ in the eyes of everyone.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I don't think that Kobe even merits comparison to the best Lakers of all time.As of now Wilt,Shaq,Kareem,Jerry West and Magic are better.You can't even claim that Kobe is the best player right now so it's rather absurd to claim that he's better than MJ.If you do then you are saying that Tim Duncan is the greatest of all time.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Why we comparing him to Jordan? Jordan isn't even the best of the past 30 years. He just got lucky and got hyped by a bunch of ad campaigns and hit right when the NBA went global and made stupid Jordan to the MAX movies in large dome theaters. Fanboys act like he's god.


:rofl: Man, that's good. Oh, wait...you were serious, just like IV.

wow.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Diable said:


> I don't think that Kobe even merits comparison to the best Lakers of all time.As of now Wilt,Shaq,Kareem,Jerry West and Magic are better.You can't even claim that Kobe is the best player right now so it's rather absurd to claim that he's better than MJ.If you do then you are saying that Tim Duncan is the greatest of all time.


You can claim he is the best player right now. A couple of players have said it too, guys like Amare Stoudamire and Lebron James. No slouches there, heh.

Kobe has a very good shot to be better than Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. He could end up being better than Magic, Kareem, and Wilt if he wins 2-3 more championships. If he wins 3 more championships after splitting up with Shaq, he will go down as one of the top 5 ever.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Diable said:


> I don't think that Kobe even merits comparison to the best Lakers of all time.As of now Wilt,Shaq,Kareem,Jerry West and Magic are better.You can't even claim that Kobe is the best player right now so it's rather absurd to claim that he's better than MJ.If you do then you are saying that Tim Duncan is the greatest of all time.


I disagree, Kobe is in the discussion of who are the greatest Lakers of all-time. He has 3 championships, the stats and the career highlights to warrant such a discussion. Shaq isn't that far ahead of Kobe on the list of greatest Lakers of all-time. Actually I believe Kobe will pass him very soon, if he hasn't already. I don't believe Kobe is better than MJ, but at the end of his career it will also be possible to compare the two. 

As of right now IMHO.

1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Magic Johnson
3. Jerry West
4. Elgin Baylor
5. Shaquille O'neal
6. Kobe Bryant


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Jordan was still better. David Thompson once scored more in a game than Jordan ever did in a game, but Jordan was better that Thompson.

Bryant is an amazing talent, in the debate for best player in the league and a future Hall of Famer. He isn't the best player ever, though, or one of the contenders for best player ever, as Jordan is.

Jordan's defense was significantly better. Jordan was, last night excepted, the better and more efficient scorer. They're comparable passers and rebounders. Bryant is the one-off version of Michael Jordan, which is still incredibly impressive.


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

compsciguy78 said:


> KOBE IS A BETTER SCORER THAN MICHAEL JORDAN...


So far this year, Kobe has thrown up 1581 field-goal attempts. In 1987, Jordan's highest PPG year at 37.1 PPG, Jordan threw up 2279 attempts. At this pace, Kobe is on pace to have over 3000 FGA's in a season--more than 700 more than Jordan ever attempted in a season--on less PPG.

Better scorer? Nah.

More inclined to find his own shot, despite/because of his teammates? Yep.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

ralaw said:


> IAs of right now IMHO.
> 
> 1. Wilt Chamberlain
> 2. Magic Johnson
> ...


Since I guess only Lakers careers are counted for this, this seems right. In fact, Magic Johnson and Jerry West probably belong ahead of Chamberlain, if you take out of consideration Chamberlain's years with the Sixers and Warriors.

If you're just ranking the players who have played for LA, counting even their non-LA careers, I'd move O'Neal ahead of Baylor and West.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Kobe obviously has the outside shooting over MJ which makes him a more explosive scorer then him when he's feeling it, but what else? Nobody with a straight face can say he's as good or equal to MJ at any other aspect of the game. Which isn't bad because MJ is the GOAT. Kobe is VERY good. Top 20 All Time but he still has ways to go. For him to ever to be compared to MJ as an equal or close to it he MUST lead his OWN team to AT LEAST a couple more championships to go along with all the other individual awards(MVPs, Finals MVPs, scoring titles etc). 

I am very positive there won't be another player as good as MJ. He had the perfect career. 6 rings, 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 9 All D First Teams, DPOY, 3 stls titles etc. You just can't f*** with that.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

carrrnuttt said:


> So far this year, Kobe has thrown up 1581 field-goal attempts. In 1987, Jordan's highest PPG year at 37.1 PPG, Jordan threw up 2279 attempts. At this pace, Kobe is on pace to have over 3000 FGA's in a season--more than 700 more than Jordan ever attempted in a season--on less PPG.
> 
> Better scorer? Nah.
> 
> More inclined to find his own shot, despite/because of his teammates? Yep.


kobe's actually taken 1082 fga's this season. he's on pace for 2219 (80 games). his ts% is 55.4%, compared to jordan's 56.2% in '87.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> I am very positive there won't be another player as good as MJ. He had the perfect career. 6 rings, 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 9 All D First Teams, DPOY, 3 stls titles etc. You just can't f*** with that.


remember, being as good and having as perfect a career are different things.


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

kflo said:


> kobe's actually taken 1082 fga's this season. he's on pace for 2275. his ts% is 55.4%, compared to jordan's 56.2% in '87.


Nevermind me then. Being at work, I had to rush it. I interposed his minutes with his FGA's.

Even with the new #'s, it shows Kobe, with basically the exact same FGA's per-game, with almost the exact same minutes-per-game, averaging a full 2 pts behind Michael, who never had such a high scoring game to pad the PPG stat.

Jordan (so far) is still the better, more efficient scorer, which is a redundant statement, if you think about it.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

Kobe and Jordan are on the same level in my opinion, definatley not better...but he's on Jordans level


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

carrrnuttt said:


> Nevermind me then. Being at work, I had to rush it. I interposed his minutes with his FGA's.
> 
> Even with the new #'s, it shows Kobe, with basically the exact same FGA's per-game, with almost the exact same minutes-per-game, *averaging a full 2 pts behind Michael*, who never had such a high scoring game to pad the PPG stat.
> 
> Jordan (so far) is still the better, more efficient scorer, which is a redundant statement, if you think about it.


37.1 vs. 35.9?? I do agree that Jordan has proven to be the better scorer over time, but Kobe definately has the offensive weapons to be the greatest scorer ever.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> Kobe obviously has the outside shooting over MJ which makes him a more explosive scorer then him when he's feeling it, but what else? Nobody with a straight face can say he's as good or equal to MJ at any other aspect of the game. Which isn't bad because MJ is the GOAT. Kobe is VERY good. Top 20 All Time but he still has ways to go. For him to ever to be compared to MJ as an equal or close to it he MUST lead his OWN team to AT LEAST a couple more championships to go along with all the other individual awards(MVPs, Finals MVPs, scoring titles etc).
> 
> I am very positive there won't be another player as good as MJ. He had the perfect career. 6 rings, 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 9 All D First Teams, DPOY, 3 stls titles etc. You just can't f*** with that.


word...i have always felt this way, but in the last month to two months i decided i'm never gonna say what Kobe can't do anymore...


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

carrrnuttt said:


> Nevermind me then. Being at work, I had to rush it. I interposed his minutes with his FGA's.
> 
> Even with the new #'s, it shows Kobe, with basically the exact same FGA's per-game, with almost the exact same minutes-per-game, averaging a full 2 pts behind Michael, who never had such a high scoring game to pad the PPG stat.
> 
> Jordan (so far) is still the better, more efficient scorer, which is a redundant statement, if you think about it.


the bulls pace factor was 95.8 compared to the lakers of 90.7. leaguewide efficiency is lower. the differences between their scoring numbers across the board, 1987 vs 2006, are marginal.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

Yes he can be compared with Jordan and has been, however that comparison isn't very compelling IMO.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Kobe Bryant is not equal to Michael Jordan. Scoring wise, Kobe Bryant has rised up as probably the best since Michael Jordan. Allen Iverson still has something to say about that.

Kobe Bryant can score a hundred if he wanted to since he can just shoot the whole team's field goal attempts, and get away with it, since his team is apparently so bad... its like killing 2 birds with 1 stone. I wonder how would Kobe feel if the team try to get another scorer to help him out.

I like Kobe, but he find himself in a situation where he can dominate and literally be the whole team by just scoring as much as he can, Yes... they are winning games, but I doubt they will win against good teams this way. 

I have witnessed both in their prime and hated the Bulls with a passion back then, even Jordan, but once you realize the things he has done for the Bulls and the league, you will just see that he is still head and shoulders above Kobe/A.I/T-Mac/LeBron. Kobe might get the scoring title this year, but Jordan was scoring this much and leading the Bulls to 40 win seasons when he was in his early twenties... WITHOUT a 3 point shot in his arsenal. The way Jordan played he could easily score 20 a quarter if he took 50-60 percent of the team's shots.

Kobe will win his first scoring title this season and people already think he is the better scorer.... Jordan won it 10 times all above 30+ ppg. The veteran fans will understand how hard that feat is, the youngin's will automatically put over Kobe as the greatest of all time... thats just how it goes.


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## hp93 (Jan 23, 2006)

He is a piece of trash compared to Jordan, mainly because he is toooo arragant and takes way to many shots.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

KobeBryant08 said:


> Kobe and Jordan are on the same level in my opinion, definatley not better...but he's on Jordans level


Ability to score big.. yes... everything else... jordan is above. Overall, Jordan is above significantly.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

It's funny how Jordan was the perfect teammate, leader, and human being in general while also being the perfect basketball player. Michael Jordan was selfish, arrogant, and the whole nine. He was just so much better than everyone else, and had such a great will to win, that it didn't matter. 

The main difference between Jordan and Kobe right now is Scottie Pippen. Jordan was better than Kobe in every aspect of the game, except scoring, but was only better by a small margin. Although all the small margins do add up to a significant one.

But if you put Kobe in a situation where he is playing with a sidekick who is also a top 5 player in the league, and who plays the game in a way that perfectly suits him, while also having leadership qualities that create the yin and yang effect, he would be winning titles too. Pippen was perfect match for Jordan, in games and off the court. He was the guy encouraging teammates and padding them on the back, while Jordan was the dictator that Kobe is with that strong will to win, and desire for everyone to play at the intensity level he plays at. 

If you put Jordan in Kobe's place right now, I think the Lakers would be a few games better, and Jordan would be doing the same things as Kobe, shooting 27 times per game (like he did in his 3rd season when he averaged 37 a night). Not a huge difference. 

So simple answer to the thread question, no he isn't as good as Jordan. But Jordan is arguably the greatest ever, so it's not GOAT or bust for Kobe. Respect the man for being the best perimeter player in the game *since* Jordan.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

lol @ this thread.

Kobe isn't as good as Jordan, but it's hardly a stretch to compare them and ask if Kobe might be as good as him, being that he's the top perimeter player in the game today (if not the outright best player) and reserved his spot in the Hall-of-Fame years ago. Some of these reactions amuse me.

You guys are basically the same as everyone in the 80s who laughed when Jordan was compared favorably to Dr. J.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

No, he's not better than MJ. One game does not make a career. This has been rehashed to death, so I'll leave it at that. 



Vinsane said:


> MJ averaged 5 assists per game evry year


Oh my, kids these days.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

EHL said:


> One game does not make a career.


Exactly. Come on people, it was just one game. But he did was absolutely amazing, but let's not get carried away.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> It's funny how Jordan was the perfect teammate, leader, and human being in general while also being the perfect basketball player. Michael Jordan was selfish, arrogant, and the whole nine. He was just so much better than everyone else, and had such a great will to win, that it didn't matter.
> 
> The main difference between Jordan and Kobe right now is Scottie Pippen. Jordan was better than Kobe in every aspect of the game, except scoring, but was only better by a small margin. Although all the small margins do add up to a significant one.


Lamar Odom could be almost (if not) as good of a role player than Pippen was. Look at his last year in Miami. I remember how well he played in the playoffs that year too. He hasn't meshed with Kobe. Does Kobe deserve all of the blame? Maybe not. But you have to look at the fact that MJ made journeyman like Paxon, Armstrong, Hodges, Wennington, Purdue, Longly and others into championship role players. Most of those guys were at their best while playing with MJ. For the love of all that's holy, how many games would MJ and Shaq had won together? Ask yourself that. While your at it, ask yourself who has flourished or "came up" with Kobe and the Lakers? You can brush off Glenn Rice, Mitch Richmond, Gary Payton, and Karl Malone as too many cooks in the kitchen if you like . . . but who has Kobe made better? Name one guy that's made a career out of being a Kobe sidekick. MJ had several.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

kaydow said:


> Lamar Odom could be almost (if not) as good of a role player than Pippen was.


Not even close, man. Pippen is much, much closer to Kobe's talent and impact level than he is to Odom. And Odom's one of my favorite players.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

kaydow said:


> Lamar Odom could be almost (if not) as good of a role player than Pippen was. Look at his last year in Miami. I remember how well he played in the playoffs that year too. He hasn't meshed with Kobe. Does Kobe deserve all of the blame? Maybe not. But you have to look at the fact that MJ made journeyman like Paxon, Armstrong, Hodges, Wennington, Purdue, Longly and others into championship role players. Most of those guys were at their best while playing with MJ. For the love of all that's holy, how many games would MJ and Shaq had won together? Ask yourself that. While your at it, ask yourself who has flourished or "came up" with Kobe and the Lakers? You can brush off Glenn Rice, Mitch Richmond, Gary Payton, and Karl Malone as too many cooks in the kitchen if you like . . . but who has Kobe made better? Name one guy that's made a career out of being a Kobe sidekick. MJ had several.


check the stats for guys like Paxon, Armstrong, Hodges, Wennington, Purdue, Longly and others. those guys were made by simply being on great teams, and contributing what they were capable of contributing, which was generally capitalizing on jordan's scraps. it was the nucleus of jordan/pippen/(grant/rodman) that allowed those guys to do what they did, not simply jordan. 

i'm sure you'll discount the sidekicks from the shaq years, so how many years has kobe had a chance to have his sidekicks?

glenn rice, mitch richmond, gary payton and karl malone all either ended their careers or never did anything again after playing on the lakers.


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

Kobe scored 81 points so now he's better than MJ?... what kind of crack some people are smoking..


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

StephenJackson said:


> He scored 81 points, he did it on shooting 60 percent. I see no problem with that. If you are shooting 60 percent, you are shooting better then basically any team as a whole on any night and you should be getting the ball and shooting.


tell that to the great mr bryant in the 2004 championships. shaq was shooting over 60% but kobe decided to shoot them out of the series by shooting 38%. he will NEVER be better than MJ. he doesn't have the smarts


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## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

One game doesn't change anything. Kobe didn't become better between the game before this, and last nights game. Kobe is a great player, but having a career game doesn't change the way I look at him. He was always a slim margain away from going of, for 70+ points, and last night, that's exactly what happened. And no, Kobe is not as good as Jordan was. One game changes nothing.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

1 game changes the ceiling for what we thought possible. that's the only thing 1 game does. people just don't score 55 points in a half. at least that's what we thought.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

This is getting ridiculus. Since a lot of Kobe fans believe that they are equal lets just list the things that Kobe obviously has achieve along with MJ to make him his equal.


# Six NBA championship teams (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
# NBA Finals MVP six times (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
# NBA Finals single-series record for highest PPG average 41.0 (1993)
# NBA Most Valuable Player five times (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998)
# All-NBA First Team ten times (1987-1993, 1996-1998)
# NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time team (1996)
# Highest career PPG ave. (minimum 400 games or 10,000 points) - 30.1
# Holds record for most seasons leading the league in scoring - 10
# Shares record for the most consecutive seasons leading the league in scoring - 7 (1986-1993)
# Had a streak of nine consecutive games scoring 40 points or more (Nov. 28 - Dec. 12, 1986)
# 13 NBA All-Star Games (1985, 1987-1993, 1996-1998, 2002-2003)
# All time scoring leader in All-Star history (262 points)
# Fourth highest scoring average for career All-Star games (20.2 ppg)
# Named the All-Star MVP three times (1988, 1996, 1998)
# Won the All-Star Slam Dunk Contest in 1987 and 1988
# Has posted 28 career triple-doubles
# 2 Time All-American & NCAA Player of the Year award
# Two playoff career triple-doubles, both at New York (5/9/89 and 6/2/93)
# Named the 1988 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
# Scored a career playoff-high 63 points against Boston on 5/20/86 Boston was damn good to)
# Eight *playoff* games with 50 pts. or more
# 30 regular season games with 50 pts. or more
# 173 games with 40 points or more
# Has hit 28 game-winning shots in the NBA
# Hit the game-winning shot in the 1982 NCAA championship game as a freshman
# Named NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)
# A member of the gold medal-winning 1984 and 1992 United States Olympic Basketball Teams
# Ranked 3rd in All-Time leader in points scored
# All-Star record having the only triple-double in an All-Star game (1997)
# All-time record for most consectutive double-figure scoring games
# Holds the all-time playoff record for the most steals
# Notched his 30,000th point on 1/4/02 against the Bulls
# Only 40 year old NBA player to ever score over 40 points on 2/21/03 (I believe it was 52 points at 40 !!! :worship: )
# Finished his career with 32,292 points, 5,633 assists and 6,672 rebounds.

I think people memory of MJ greatness is very foggy. I was able to see him play his whole career and it is something about him that just made him greater than everyone else. You couldn't put your finger on it. When he walk onto the court it was like his presence along demanded your respect. All the Michael Jordan DVD's does no justice to the great career that he has had. The ones that believe Kobe is now equal to Jordan are either die hard lakers fans who want to believe it so bad that they have their version of Jordan or probably are in their ealy 20's and didn't have the pleasure of enjoying MJ throughout his careers. This man has done soo much for this league on and off the court. The stats above only scratches the surface of his greatness. The league and the media know how great he was. Why do you think that there is always "the next Jordan". Why do you think that every time someone does something great they always bring up that Jordan hasn't done that. Its simple, this league needs a Jordan like image again. At one point there was talk of doing a league wide retirement of his number, totally unheard of in any sport. Ten years from now how will people look at Kobe's career. Will he known as "Kobe Bryant" or will he be known as the guy who was like Jordan.

Remember, MJ didn't do one thing great...He did everything great. :clap:


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

kaydow said:


> Lamar Odom could be almost (if not) as good of a role player than Pippen was. Look at his last year in Miami.


He is having basically the same season he had in Miami. Less points, more assists. Odom isn't near Pippen's level though. Pippen was on another planet defensively, and wasn't so one dimensional offensively. 



kaydow said:


> But you have to look at the fact that MJ made journeyman like Paxon, Armstrong, Hodges, Wennington, Purdue, Longly and others into championship role players. Most of those guys were at their best while playing with MJ.


Some of the same things could be said about Kobe with Smush Parker, who couldn't make an NBA team last year, Chris Mihm, who has bounced around the league despite being a 7-footer which is valuable in this league. Lakers are full of late 1st round picks and journeymen. Hell, Lamar Odom isn't too far from being a journeyman. 3 teams in 7 seasons. 



kaydow said:


> For the love of all that's holy, how many games would MJ and Shaq had won together? Ask yourself that.


Probably in the ballpark of 3, before Jordan blasted Shaq was not being in shape, and not wanting to win bad enough. Shaq would then proceed to cry about it and demand trade. :biggrin:



kaydow said:


> While your at it, ask yourself who has flourished or "came up" with Kobe and the Lakers?


Look at the entire Lakers roster. His teammates are overachieving greatly. 



kaydow said:


> Name one guy that's made a career out of being a Kobe sidekick. MJ had several.


Jordan had one sidekick. Two if you count Rodman. Kobe never had a player good enough to be a sidekick, besides Shaq, who in his prime was better than Kobe, so wasn't actually the sidekick. 

You give Kobe a player like Elton Brand, and they are title contenders right now.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Jorbroni said:


> This is getting ridiculus. Since a lot of Kobe fans believe that they are equal lets just list the things that Kobe obviously has achieve along with MJ to make him his equal.


A player doesn't have to follow the exact same career path of accomplishments to be comparable or better.

That's like listing Chamberlain's accolades (including the 100 point game, the 55 rebound game, etc) and saying that a player has to do all of those things to be equal or better. Jordan didn't come near some of those accomplishments and has a pretty good argument for being better.

I don't think Bryant is, or ever will be, as good as Jordan. But it remains to be seen, and he won't need to meet some checklist of Jordan accomplishments to do it.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

While we're at what Kobe's not, maybe we can stop with the Kobe for MVP talks as well. All I hear is Kobe for MVP this, Kobe for MVP that...MVPs play on 50+ win teams, not teams that are 3 games over .500.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

For pure scoring I would take Kobe right now over Jordan at almost any age. Kobe can shoot the 3-ball way better than Jordan ever could. That means so much because you can rack up points really quick. I would have never said this 2 months ago, but Kobe has done some things in the last two months that are simply amazing. His recent FT streak, his 81 point game, his 62 point-3 quarters performance, the streak of 45 point games. The guy can score with best of any era, evidenced by what he's doing. That's all I'm saying. He is no way close to being MJ right now as far as being a winner. 


But as far as being a scorer, Kobe can be compared to MJ. I can't wait to see what his PPG mark is at the end of the year. If he breaks 37.1, it will be fun to see what everyone thinks. Even if he doesn't, 35.9 is almost as good. 


MJ hasn't done some of the things Kobe has done. The 45 point streaks, 81 points, 62 points in 3 quarters. Give the man his due. Everyone says Kobe hasn't won this and that, but he has done things MJ never did.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> A player doesn't have to follow the exact same career path of accomplishments to be comparable or better.
> 
> That's like listing Chamberlain's accolades (including the 100 point game, the 55 rebound game, etc) and saying that a player has to do all of those things to be equal or better. Jordan didn't come near some of those accomplishments and has a pretty good argument for being better.
> 
> I don't think Bryant is, or ever will be, as good as Jordan. But it remains to be seen, and he won't need to meet some checklist of Jordan accomplishments to do it.


I'm not saying that he should identical to MJ accomplishments. What I was trying to say is can Kobe even compare all his over accomplishments to MJ's? No. Many say that he is a better scorer than MJ, well do you have anything other then 40 regular season games to prove it? This was not directed toward you, it was directed towards the ones that were saying that he is equal or better than MJ.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

Every all-time great has done things Jordan never did. As far as scoring, Jordan has a career history of scoring excellence that IMO puts him well above Kobe's 40 games or whatever it is this season.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

compsciguy78 said:


> For pure scoring I would take Kobe right now over Jordan at almost any age. Kobe can shoot the 3-ball way better than Jordan ever could. That means so much because you can rack up points really quick. I would have never said this 2 months ago, but Kobe has done some things in the last two months that are simply amazing. His recent FT streak, his 81 point game, his 62 point-3 quarters performance, the streak of 45 point games. The guy can score with best of any era, evidenced by what he's doing. That's all I'm saying. He is no way close to being MJ right now as far as being a winner.
> 
> 
> But as far as being a scorer, Kobe can be compared to MJ. I can't wait to see what his PPG mark is at the end of the year. If he breaks 37.1, it will be fun to see what everyone thinks. Even if he doesn't, 35.9 is almost as good.
> ...


I will be the first to give Kobe his props. What he did for the past two months has been unbelieveable (scoring wise). But to compare Jordan's overall career to Kobe's two months is not going to cut it. In that case, every time somebody does something that Jordan hasn't does that make them comparable?


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

Is Kobe as good as Jordan was?

No. He's better. 81 times better.

Somewhere right now, Jesus is shaking his head thinking, "Damn. That man can score 81 points in less than 48 minutes and all I can ****ing do is walk the ocean and turn water into wine. This is bull****."


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Jorbroni said:


> I'm not saying that he should identical to MJ accomplishments. What I was trying to say is can Kobe even compare all his over accomplishments to MJ's? No.


Can Kobe's accomplishments through age 27 be compared to Jordan's accomplishments through age 27? Yes, they can. I'd place Jordan ahead of Bryant at any age so far (since the time both were in the NBA), but Bryant's accomplishments are in the same realm through a similar age,


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

Pay Ton said:


> Is Kobe as good as Jordan was?
> 
> No. He's better. 81 times better.
> 
> Somewhere right now, Jesus is shaking his head thinking, "Damn. That man can score 81 points in less than 48 minutes and all I can ****ing do is walk the ocean and turn water into wine. This is bull****."


AMEN. LOL


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## aNgelo5 (Oct 24, 2005)

You know I love Jordan, but the way Kobe is playing right now I mean he has his own team its Team Kobe all the way, but I mean the way his playing right now. Defentily yes, his the best player in the NBA. Okay, yes maybe Jordan did pass the ball a lot more than Kobe, but I can tell you why because he defentily had people to work WITH!! Yes folks people to work with. kobe doesnt absoutley have anyone to work with, that scrub Odom, is truly sad he has a good game once every 65 games. And good I mean 20 points, and then theres "Mihm" wow, there anything to say about this scrub his a Joke, and I won't even get into the others right now, because I could be typing for days, with the terrible roster they have. Needless to say they deperatly need to change something, and Ron Artest would be an excellent pick up for them, and Team Kobe doesn't want to trade Odom wow, there outta there MIND!


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## Intense Enigma (Oct 22, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> This is getting ridiculus. Since a lot of Kobe fans believe that they are equal lets just list the things that Kobe obviously has achieve along with MJ to make him his equal.
> 
> 
> # Six NBA championship teams (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
> ...



PWNED,sorry Kobe.


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## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

Blink4 said:


> AMEN. LOL


The sad part is that you're serious.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

IV said:


> Did you spell you username wrong?


Actually no I didn't...

no personal attacks. violation of our TOS. stop.

Premier


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## Mohamed_#8 (Jan 24, 2006)

Don't people ever learn?

How can you compare a man who is retired to a man who is just about to blow up?

Kobe, in case you forgot, is just 27 years old, there is still plenty of time for improvement in his game. 

I am tired of these comparison, they don't do any of us any good. Unless you want to compare Jordan at 27 to Kobe right now? But then you have to go through the trouble of comparing team rosters and everything, but INDIVIDUALLY, I would take Kobe at 27 over Jordan. I just feel Kobe is more dangerous with his offensive output.

Nobody can SCORE quite like Kobe.


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## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> *# NBA Finals MVP six times (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)*


Can someone tell me how many _NBA finals mvp_ has Kobe ?


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Mohamed_#8 said:


> Don't people ever learn?
> 
> How can you compare a man who is retired to a man who is just about to blow up?
> 
> ...


 :clap: :clap: :clap: 

I agree 110%. Stop these comparisons. Kobe scored 81pts > MICHAEL JORDAN. Kobe is Kobe. He IS the 2nd highest scoring player in NBA history which Jordan couldn't do. Give credits to Kobe. You don't have to be a fan of Kobe to appreciate his greatness. 

You will ONLY know who is better if Michael Jordan IS playing right now. All those stats comparison are just "assumptions" ***-U-N-ME.


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

X-Factor said:


> The sad part is that you're serious.


Actually no. I NEVER EVER EVER EVER would seriously say that Kobe is better than Jordan. So go shove that size 1 font up your ***.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

Michael Jordan in the PLAYOFFS

1988 (10 games): 36.3 ppg (53 FG%), 7.1 rpg, 4.7 apg
1989 (17 games): 34.8 ppg (51 FG%), 7.0 rpg, 7.6 apg
1990 (16 games): 36.7 ppg (51 FG%), 7.2 rpg, 6.8 apg
1991 (17 games): 31.1 ppg (52 FG%), 6.4 rpg, 8.4 apg
1992 (22 games): 34.5 ppg (50 FG%), 6.2 rpg, 5.8 apg
1993 (19 games): 35.1 ppg (48 FG%), 6.7 rpg, 6.0 apg

Bow down.


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## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Kobe said it himself in the 81 pt night postgame press conference that he's tired of these comparisons. He said that Michael Jordan is incomparable. Kobe is creating his own legacy.

Here's a link. It's 15 min. long so u can forward it to the midway point if you want.

Kobe Press Conference


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Chalie Boy said:


> Actually no I didn't...
> 
> no personal attacks. violation of our TOS. stop.
> 
> Premier


Oh my goodness, he told me off! *snaps his fingers!*

You a bad dude, I aint gon mess witchu no mo, Cha*r*lie!


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## UnderPressure (Apr 25, 2005)

grizzos said:


> Just curious..
> 
> Who would you rather have
> Mihm or Rodman
> ...


Your right that Kobe has worse team mates, but who is to say that jordan with the same teammates wouldnt have more wins right now? He probley would. Its not like the Lakers record right now is anything close to amazing. They are only 22-19. Put Jordan in his prime in that same line up, id say the lakers would be at around 25-16... and put Kobe in jordans star 1995-1996 line up, at the end of the season i say you get somewhere around 60-65 wins. But who am I to speculate, this is all hypotheical anyways, anything could happen in certian situations. 

But one thing I do know, is that Jordan had a special bond with all the players he played with, he was not only a teammate, but a coach and mentor as well... can we say the same about Kobe, the same player who in Phil Jackson's book was described as "immature and selfish". Other players around the league have a hard time playing on the same floor with Kobe for that very same reason. You have to understand to build a great team around a superstar, you need a superstar who is content with giving up fame and the glitz for a championship and for the better of the team.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Only people who have not watched much of Jordan in his prime would even ASK this question.

The answer: Not even close.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

UnderPressure said:


> Your right that Kobe has worse team mates, but who is to say that jordan with the same teammates wouldnt have more wins right now? He probley would. Its not like the Lakers record right now is anything close to amazing. They are only 22-19. Put Jordan in his prime in that same line up, id say the lakers would be at around 25-16... and put Kobe in jordans star 1995-1996 line up, at the end of the season i say you get somewhere around 60-65 wins. But who am I to speculate, this is all hypotheical anyways, anything could happen in certian situations.
> 
> But one thing I do know, is that Jordan had a special bond with all the players he played with, he was not only a teammate, but a coach and mentor as well... can we say the same about Kobe, the same player who in Phil Jackson's book was described as "immature and selfish". Other players around the league have a hard time playing on the same floor with Kobe for that very same reason. You have to understand to build a great team around a superstar, you need a superstar who is content with giving up fame and the glitz for a championship and for the better of the team.


jordan gave up fame and glitz for a championship?

jordan shot as much in 1998 (and 2002 for that matter) as he did in 1988.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

can't we just enjoy wat Kobe is doing? he is the best player of this generation... all the players coming up now can be compared to him (as they have been) then they can compete v.s. him and it makes more sense... that's good enough for now... compare him to the all-time greats when he retires...


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

UnderPressure said:


> Other players around the league have a hard time playing on the same floor with Kobe for that very same reason.


Everyone has this arguement, "no one wants to play with Kobe." Who has ever said that? Please just name me a couple people who have said that. I can sure as hell give you a liust of players who have said Kobe is the best in the league.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Why is the best player of his generation fifth in the league in efficiency behind Garnette,Lebron,Elton Brand and SHawn Marion?For that matter why is DWade so close behind him?Last I heard Tim Duncan was the best player in the league too.Everyone knew that MJ was better than Hakeem,but I have to say
that Hakeem was substantially better than Kobe is.Kobe is not even the best 
Laker in the last ten years is he?

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22005&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=


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## bear23 (Feb 28, 2005)

GTA Addict said:


> Michael Jordan in the PLAYOFFS
> 
> 1988 (10 games): 36.3 ppg (53 FG%), 7.1 rpg, 4.7 apg
> 1989 (17 games): 34.8 ppg (51 FG%), 7.0 rpg, 7.6 apg
> ...


Amazing numbers :worship:


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Diable said:


> Why is the best player of his generation fifth in the league in efficiency behind Garnette,Lebron,Elton Brand and SHawn Marion?For that matter why is DWade so close behind him?Last I heard Tim Duncan was the best player in the league too.Give us a break.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...itScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=


because anybody who analyzes a basketball game by effeciency and statistics liek that Hollinger guy are fools... Elton Brand? Shawn Marion?are you kidding me... ask them who is better? i would take Kobe b4 both of em... as John Salley says "dude is the truth."


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Diable said:


> Why is the best player of his generation fifth in the league in efficiency behind Garnette,Lebron,Elton Brand and SHawn Marion?For that matter why is DWade so close behind him?Last I heard Tim Duncan was the best player in the league too.Give us a break.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...itScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=


According to ESPN, he is 1st in the league in Hollinger's Player Efficiency Rating.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

<table width="800"><tbody><tr class="headorange"><td width="21">*RANK*​ </td> <td width="21">*TEAM*​ </td> <td width="250">*NAME*​ </td> <td class="colSpacer" width="1"> </td> <td width="21">*G*​ </td> <td width="35">*MIN/G*​ </td> <td width="45">*PTS/40*​ </td> <td class="colSpacer" width="1"> </td> <td width="40">*eFG*​ </td> <td width="40">*FT%*​ </td> <td width="40">*TS%*​ </td> <td class="colSpacer" width="1"> </td> <td width="40">*REB-r*​ </td> <td width="40">*USG-r*​ </td> <td class="colSpacer" width="1"> </td> <td width="44">*PER*​ </td> </tr> <!--/repeat--> <tr><td>1 ​ </td> <td>CLE ​ </td> <td>LeBron James ​ </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>38 </td> <td>41.8 </td> <td>29.6 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>53.2 </td> <td> 74.3 </td> <td>58.3 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>9.5 </td> <td>30.7 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>29.0 ​ </td> </tr> <tr class="greyrow"> <td>2 ​ </td> <td>DAL ​ </td> <td>Dirk Nowitzki ​ </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>40 </td> <td>37.8 </td> <td>27.7 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>51.3 </td> <td> 89.1 </td> <td>58.3 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>13.6 </td> <td>27.4 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>28.2 ​ </td> </tr> <tr><td>3 ​ </td> <td>MIA ​ </td> <td>Dwyane Wade ​ </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>40 </td> <td>38.8 </td> <td>27.6 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>48.5 </td> <td> 78.0 </td> <td>56.3 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>9.2 </td> <td>30.1 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>28.1 ​ </td> </tr> <tr class="greyrow"> <td>4 ​ </td> <td>LAL ​ </td> <td>Kobe Bryant ​ </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>38 </td> <td>40.5 </td> <td>34.3 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>47.7 </td> <td> 83.5 </td> <td>54.5 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>8.0 </td> <td>35.8 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>27.8 ​ </td> </tr> <tr><td>5 ​ </td> <td>MIN ​ </td> <td>Kevin Garnett ​ </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>37 </td> <td>39.5 </td> <td>22.6 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>54.3 </td> <td> 78.7 </td> <td>59.4 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>17.3 </td> <td>23.7 </td> <td class="colSpacer"> 
</td> <td>27.7 ​ </td></tr></tbody></table>


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

shobe42 said:


> can't we just enjoy wat Kobe is doing? he is the best player of this generation... all the players coming up now can be compared to him (as they have been) then they can compete v.s. him and it makes more sense... that's good enough for now... compare him to the all-time greats when he retires...



Greatest player of his generation? That's highly highly debatable. Is Shaquille O'Neal in his generation? He's definately better, I'd imagine that most would agree. Then there's Tim Duncan, who doesn't score as much, but he's won three championships, with three Finals MVPs, and two regular season MVPs. He never had a player as dominat as Shaq, either (although his overall team had better role players). Kevin Garnett is also probably better. Had he had the supporting casts that Bryant had during the threepeat (ie a top two player), he would probably've won more. To me, Garnett has had an inferior or roughly equal supporting cast for each season, yet he's done quite a bit. 

Then there's LBJ, who I think is gunna be better by next season. He's awefully close this year, and if he continues to show similar improvement, he'll likely be remembered as the best during this decade. Heck, even Amare Stoudemire and maybe Dwyane Wade has a chance to be better . . .

So, as we look back, I bet these players will be remembered as the "greatest of this generation" . . .

1. LeBron James
2. Shaquille O'Neal/Tim Duncan 
4. Kobe Bryant/Kevin Garnett
6. Amare Stoudemire/DW/Dwight Howard


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Exactly how many years of his career was MJ the second best player on his own team by the way?


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Diable said:


> Exactly how many years of his career was MJ the second best player on his own team by the way?


That is a poor argument considering Kobe was a 17 year old rookie to begin his career and Jordan never played with the most dominant big man in the league since Wilt Chamberlain.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Premier said:


> <table width="800"><tbody><tr class="headorange"><td width="21">*RANK*​ </td> <td width="21">*TEAM*​ </td> <td width="250">*NAME*​ </td> <td class="colSpacer" width="1"> </td> <td width="21">*G*​ </td> <td width="35">*MIN/G*​ </td> <td width="45">*PTS/40*​ </td> <td class="colSpacer" width="1"> </td> <td width="40">*eFG*​ </td> <td width="40">*FT%*​ </td> <td width="40">*TS%*​ </td> <td class="colSpacer" width="1"> </td> <td width="40">*REB-r*​ </td> <td width="40">*USG-r*​ </td> <td class="colSpacer" width="1"> </td> <td width="44">*PER*​ </td> </tr> <!--/repeat--> <tr><td>1 ​ </td> <td>CLE ​ </td> <td>LeBron James ​ </td> <td class="colSpacer">
> </td> <td>38 </td> <td>41.8 </td> <td>29.6 </td> <td class="colSpacer">
> </td> <td>53.2 </td> <td> 74.3 </td> <td>58.3 </td> <td class="colSpacer">
> </td> <td>9.5 </td> <td>30.7 </td> <td class="colSpacer">
> ...




<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1">
<tr class="stathead">
<td colspan="14">Hollinger Stats: Player Efficiency Rating</td></tr>
<tr class="colhead" align=right><td align=left>RNK</td><td align=left>Player</td><td>GP</td><td>Min</td><td><a href="?sort=fgp&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Field Goal Percentage">FG%</a></td><td><a href="?sort=ftp&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Free Throw Percentage">FT%</a></td><td><a href="?sort=tsp&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By True Shooting Percentage">TS%</a></td><td><a href="?sort=asr&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Assist Ratio">Ast</a></td><td><a href="?sort=tor&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Turnover Ratio">TO</a></td><td><a href="?sort=usg&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Usage Rate">Usg</a></td><td><a href="?sort=orr&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Offensive Rebound Rate">ORR</a></td><td><a href="?sort=drr&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Defensive Rebound Rate">DRR</a></td><td><a href="?sort=reb&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Rebound Rate">Reb</a></td><td><a href="?sort=per&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Player Efficiency Rating">PER</a></td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align=right><td align=left>1</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3118">Kobe Bryant</a>, LAL</td><td>39</td><td>40.5</td><td>.452</td><td>.838</td><td>.554</td><td>10.8</td><td>7.5</td><td>36.4</td><td>3.4</td><td>12.8</td><td>8.1</td><td class="sortcell">29.00</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" align=right><td align=left>2</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3704">LeBron James</a>, CLE</td><td>38</td><td>41.8</td><td>.493</td><td>.743</td><td>.583</td><td>17.1</td><td>9.0</td><td>30.6</td><td>2.2</td><td>17.0</td><td>9.5</td><td class="sortcell">28.67</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align=right><td align=left>3</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3708">Dwyane Wade</a>, MIA</td><td>40</td><td>38.8</td><td>.482</td><td>.780</td><td>.563</td><td>20.4</td><td>9.8</td><td>30.0</td><td>4.7</td><td>13.5</td><td>9.2</td><td class="sortcell">27.82</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" align=right><td align=left>4</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3252">Dirk Nowitzki</a>, DAL</td><td>41</td><td>37.9</td><td>.472</td><td>.887</td><td>.580</td><td>9.7</td><td>6.6</td><td>27.2</td><td>3.7</td><td>22.8</td><td>13.3</td><td class="sortcell">27.67</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align=right><td align=left>5</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3324">Elton Brand</a>, LAC</td><td>36</td><td>39.8</td><td>.519</td><td>.764</td><td>.576</td><td>9.7</td><td>7.9</td><td>24.1</td><td>11.0</td><td>19.5</td><td>15.4</td><td class="sortcell">27.20</td></tr></table><br /><center>

what a difference a game makes


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

kflo said:


> <table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1">
> <tr class="stathead">
> <td colspan="14">Hollinger Stats: Player Efficiency Rating</td></tr>
> <tr class="colhead" align=right><td align=left>RNK</td><td align=left>Player</td><td>GP</td><td>Min</td><td><a href="?sort=fgp&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Field Goal Percentage">FG%</a></td><td><a href="?sort=ftp&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Free Throw Percentage">FT%</a></td><td><a href="?sort=tsp&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By True Shooting Percentage">TS%</a></td><td><a href="?sort=asr&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Assist Ratio">Ast</a></td><td><a href="?sort=tor&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Turnover Ratio">TO</a></td><td><a href="?sort=usg&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Usage Rate">Usg</a></td><td><a href="?sort=orr&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Offensive Rebound Rate">ORR</a></td><td><a href="?sort=drr&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Defensive Rebound Rate">DRR</a></td><td><a href="?sort=reb&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Rebound Rate">Reb</a></td><td><a href="?sort=per&qual=true&pos=all" title="Sort By Player Efficiency Rating">PER</a></td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align=right><td align=left>1</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3118">Kobe Bryant</a>, LAL</td><td>39</td><td>40.5</td><td>.452</td><td>.838</td><td>.554</td><td>10.8</td><td>7.5</td><td>36.4</td><td>3.4</td><td>12.8</td><td>8.1</td><td class="sortcell">29.00</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" align=right><td align=left>2</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3704">LeBron James</a>, CLE</td><td>38</td><td>41.8</td><td>.493</td><td>.743</td><td>.583</td><td>17.1</td><td>9.0</td><td>30.6</td><td>2.2</td><td>17.0</td><td>9.5</td><td class="sortcell">28.67</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align=right><td align=left>3</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3708">Dwyane Wade</a>, MIA</td><td>40</td><td>38.8</td><td>.482</td><td>.780</td><td>.563</td><td>20.4</td><td>9.8</td><td>30.0</td><td>4.7</td><td>13.5</td><td>9.2</td><td class="sortcell">27.82</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" align=right><td align=left>4</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3252">Dirk Nowitzki</a>, DAL</td><td>41</td><td>37.9</td><td>.472</td><td>.887</td><td>.580</td><td>9.7</td><td>6.6</td><td>27.2</td><td>3.7</td><td>22.8</td><td>13.3</td><td class="sortcell">27.67</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align=right><td align=left>5</td><td align=left><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3324">Elton Brand</a>, LAC</td><td>36</td><td>39.8</td><td>.519</td><td>.764</td><td>.576</td><td>9.7</td><td>7.9</td><td>24.1</td><td>11.0</td><td>19.5</td><td>15.4</td><td class="sortcell">27.20</td></tr></table><br /><center>
> ...


It's really ridiculous to put so much weight on stats anyways. No GM or fan with half a functional brain would ever take Elton Brand or Shawn Marion over Kobe Bryant or Tim Duncan (what is he, 11th on that list?). Marion gets more than half of his baskets off of assists. He's great at what he does and very efficient but put him in Kobe's position with no real PG and very little talent and he'd be a completely different player.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

BTW, to answer your question, no Kobe is not as good as Jordan. I'd say that they are in the same ballpark as scorers, both among the top 5 of all time in my opinion. However, Jordan is better in every other category. Slightly better as a passer (better court vision) and rebounder. Clearly a superior defender. A better decision maker. A significantly better leader. I think playing in college for a legendary coach really helped him in the latter areas but Jordan was better. However, don't slight Kobe and act like he's not even a pimple on MJ's *** because he's probably going to go down as one of the 15-20 greatest players of all time.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

grizzos said:


> Just curious..
> 
> Who would you rather have
> Mihm or Rodman
> ...



Jordan made the playoffs every year with the likes of Brad Sellers, Pete Myers, Darren Daye, and many others like that before the days of Pippen and Grant.

Also, 4 or 5 rings < 6


The More You Know...... :yes:


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

jimmy said:


> Jordan made the playoffs every year with the likes of Brad Sellers, Pete Myers, Darren Daye, and many others like that before the days of Pippen and Grant.
> 
> Also, 4 or 5 rings < 6
> 
> ...


he made the playoffs every year, but his teams didn't break 40 wins until his 4th season (when they added pippen and grant). and he had excellent rebounding teams his entire career.


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## Intense Enigma (Oct 22, 2005)

Masbee said:


> Only people who have not watched much of Jordan in his prime would even ASK this question.
> 
> The answer: Not even close.


 The reality is that a lot of this guys are 12-20 age range,Kobe generation,they dont remeber what Michael Jordan did or who he was,they may remember the WIZARDS,Michael Jordan,that's about it.Kobe is great but MJ was in a league on his own.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Intense Enigma said:


> The reality is that a lot of this guys are 12-20 age range,Kobe generation,they dont remeber what Michael Jordan did or who he was,they may remember the WIZARDS,Michael Jordan,that's about it.Kobe is great but MJ was in a league on his own.


i'd say those of us who remember that jordan didn't win a championship every year, that he too struggled through sub-500 seasons despite his ridiculous talents, that he too shot alot and dominated the ball with teammates that weren't so good, who lost when he did have good teammates, we are the ones who know that while mj might be our GOAT, he wasn't infallable, and he wasn't head-and-shoulders above everyone else. and that kobe's the closest we've ever seen in being able to do some of the unthinkable things jordan did.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

kflo said:


> i'd say those of us who remember that jordan didn't win a championship every year, that he too struggled through sub-500 seasons despite his ridiculous talents, that he too shot alot and dominated the ball with teammates that weren't so good, who lost when he did have good teammates, we are the ones who know that while mj might be our GOAT, he wasn't infallable, and he wasn't head-and-shoulders above everyone else. and that kobe's the closest we've ever seen in being able to do some of the unthinkable things jordan did.


Should just end the thread with this post.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Kobe is the closest to Jordan but he is NOT as good as Jordan at this point in his career. If he starts putting up 40 ppg seasons then that will need to be reevalutad.

One game does not change the fact that statisctially Kobe has not gotten close to Jordan in any year he's played


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> One game does not change the fact that statisctially Kobe has not gotten close to Jordan in any year he's played


What about this year? 02-03?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> Kobe is the closest to Jordan but he is NOT as good as Jordan at this point in his career. If he starts putting up 40 ppg seasons then that will need to be reevalutad.
> 
> One game does not change the fact that statisctially Kobe has not gotten close to Jordan in any year he's played



see - here's the rub. we set the bar with statistics, then when kobe approaches jordan's selfish statistics, he's derided as selfish and not a winner.

jordan was arguably equally good when his statistics were lower - across the board. it wasn't the statistics that set the bar - well it was, but it shouldn't have been. it was the overall level of play. that was obvious. even he had plenty of irrational doubters before he won titles though.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> Kobe is the closest to Jordan but he is NOT as good as Jordan at this point in his career. If he starts putting up 40 ppg seasons then that will need to be reevalutad.
> 
> One game does not change the fact that statisctially Kobe has not gotten close to Jordan in any year he's played


Is Kobe just as good of a defender and rebounder as Jordan was? How would him averaging 40 ppg (which MJ never once did) for several seasons make him better than Jordan in the areas in which he is inferior? I said that he's right there with Jordan as a scorer but he falls short in several other areas. Him averaging more points will not change the fact that he still falls short in those areas.


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## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

alex said:


> Greatest player of his generation? That's highly highly debatable. Is Shaquille O'Neal in his generation? He's definately better, I'd imagine that most would agree. Then there's Tim Duncan, who doesn't score as much, but he's won three championships, with three Finals MVPs, and two regular season MVPs. He never had a player as dominat as Shaq, either (although his overall team had better role players). Kevin Garnett is also probably better. Had he had the supporting casts that Bryant had during the threepeat (ie a top two player), he would probably've won more. To me, Garnett has had an inferior or roughly equal supporting cast for each season, yet he's done quite a bit.
> 
> Then there's LBJ, who I think is gunna be better by next season. He's awefully close this year, and if he continues to show similar improvement, he'll likely be remembered as the best during this decade. Heck, even Amare Stoudemire and maybe Dwyane Wade has a chance to be better . . .
> 
> ...



How can u leave Allen Iverson out of this discussion of greatest plyers in this generation and even include Dwight Howard when he hasn't really proved anything yet but average a hefty double double.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

I think that Pippen said it best in this article:

http://www.nba.com/blog/blog30.html



> Can't Compare Kobe and MJ
> The eras in which they played are completely different
> Kobe Bryant's 81-point performance the other night against Toronto was certainly incredible, but it is unfair to try and compare what Kobe did to what Michael Jordan did in his playing career or what he could have done for that matter.
> 
> ...


 :clap:


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## Intense Enigma (Oct 22, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> I think that Pippen said it best in this article:
> 
> http://www.nba.com/blog/blog30.html
> 
> ...


 Agree,All i can say MJ flu game performance was way more impresive than Kobe 81 points.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

I agree, makes you wonder how "defensive" specialists like Bowen would do back then, when he would be allowed to hand check and body to body bump the players driving into the lane, a few rolled ankles probably a few punches thrown I think...


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

I'm so sick of the Kobe/MJ one-on-one comparison also.. I think although Kobe did follow and watched Jordan to develop his own game, I think almost all elite scoring guards today did too...

But Kobe is Kobe, he is not the next MJ, he is the first Kobe and will be top 5 best shooting guards of all time when he retires...


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I agree with everything Pippen said. And who would know any better? The guy is a top 50 player of all time. One of the most versatile defenders to ever play. And he played in a era where you could be physical. Players would get body slammed down to the ground when driving to the basket on a regular basis. It was called laying some wood/punishment on a player. And Pippen finished his career in an era where you put your hand on someone you are whistled for a foul even if it wasn't deliberate, and didn't have any effect on the play. Like Pippen said he would of fouled out in todays game if he guarded anyone the way he guarded Magic Johnson in the finals the first time down the court.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Yeah, but MJ never had to face zone defenses like Kobe does, and the average swingman today is longer and more athletic than in the early-mid 90s.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Spriggan said:


> What about this year? 02-03?


 Nope statiscally Kobe's PER was "only" 26.2. While good by any stretch Jordan had ELEVEN seasons where he was better including a remarkable run of 8 years where his PER was above 27 before his first retirement.

The zone defense argument is bogus because I have seen nobody show me anybody's numbers have significanlty decreased since the zone was added and we've had players in there primes play in the pre and post zone era. Any effect the zone might have which I think is marginal at best is nullified by the new hand check rules.

This is Kobe's best year in terms of his PER and other stats so if he can keep it up for another 7 years or so then he has a case. He's young but Jordan was freaking incredible and I loathed him as a Magic/Laker fan back in the day


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Spriggan said:


> Yeah, but MJ never had to face zone defenses like Kobe does, and the average swingman today is longer and more athletic than in the early-mid 90s.


Physical man to man defense is more difficult on an offensive player than zone. Many crafty college/players break zones all day long. Many crafty pro players break down zone defenes down all day long. Zones really are only good I think when a team/players are bad shooters. By the way Kobe is my favorite player in the game right now. And I love what he's doing. However I agree with Pippen on this one. Todays game as Pippen said, who has experience in playing in both eras with different rules gets this one right. Todays game is easier for the offensive player. Here is Pippens examples. He gives many, and the zone doesnt seem to bother all stars today. Why do you think it would bother arguably the GOAT?



> The defensive rules, the hand checking, the ability to make contact on a guy in certain areas, the ability to come over in the lane to stop guys from getting to the basket, that's all been taken away from the game. There is no contact up on the floor. The way I played Magic Johnson in the '91 Finals, I would have fouled out the first time down court. To compare how someone would have played Michael Jordan, Chuck Daly would send someone to wear him down. Even though he may get 30 or 40 points, they're going to be a hard 30 points. But in today's game, you can't put that physical wear and tear on a guy. It's a free ball type of game. If you are shooting it well, you can score 80, as you've seen because you are going to get to the foul line.
> 
> Officials have very quick whistles now because they're promoting scoring. Let's not forget, three years ago, this league was trying to figure out how they could get the scoring back up, how they could drive the fans back into loving the game, and this is what they were building on. They changed the field of rules. Those rules are huge in the game today. They benefit the perimeter guy. Back in the day, you may get one guy to score 40 points in a month. When Michael Jordan scored 40, it was all over the front page of a newspaper. Now you can pretty much have 40 points at halftime. Until the league went and changed the rules and tried to get some of that bully ball out, you couldn't come out and perform like that every night. The game was too physical. You were too sore the next day and you were just tired and physically worn down. The game seems so fun and free now. Guys are making a living just standing out there shooting jumpers.
> 
> ...


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

> If you want to say that Kobe could get 100, I would say that Michael could get 100. If Kobe could get 81, I think Michael could get 100 in today's game. I think the psychological style that Michael was able to master in the game, puts him far beyond Kobe.


- Scottie Pippen

People were pointing out that Scottie said Kobe is "much superior" to MJ at the mental aspect of the game and challenged my notion that he often says things just to say them in the context of what's being discussed and flipflops his positions. Unless I'm wrong for thinking "mental aspect" and "psychological style" are pretty much the same thing.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Spriggan said:


> What about this year? 02-03?


 Prior to this season Kobe had one of the top 100 Player Efficiency Ratings seasons in the history of the NBA(#84 in 2002-2003 was 26.3) Lebron James second season is also on the list (#99 in 2004-2005 was 25.67).Judging by my cursory research it pretty clear that at comparable ages Michael Jordan was vastly superior to Kobe in every single year as were Wilt,Shaquile and David Robinson.Oscar Robertson was vastly superior until you compare him at 27 to Kobe at the same age and the same is true of Tim Duncan.By the standards of these players Kobe has only had one decent season in his entire career and only in this season does his statistical performance compare to the careers of the great players at younger ages.

By the way directly below Kobe's best PER season you will find Michael Jordan's Rookie season(#92 in 1984-85 at 25.85) He wouldn't have a lower PER until his final season with the Bulls (+25.2)


http://basketball-reference.com/leaders/PER_season.html


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

GTA Addict said:


> - Scottie Pippen
> 
> People were pointing out that Scottie said Kobe is "much superior" to MJ at the mental aspect of the game and challenged my notion that he often says things just to say them in the context of what's being discussed and flipflops his positions. Unless I'm wrong for thinking "mental aspect" and "psychological style" are pretty much the same thing.


look i hate comparin the two... MJ is a six-time champ and the best player ever... Kobe is still building his legacy... a week ago a lot of these people wouldnt be talkin... it will be hard to match MJs legacy... the guy was crazy...
*
Pippen did say tho two days ago on cold pizza that he thought it was possible for Kobe to surpass Mike... it's pretty interesting coming from Pip*


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

shobe42 said:


> look i hate comparin the two... MJ is a six-time champ and the best player ever... Kobe is still building his legacy... a week ago a lot of these people wouldnt be talkin... it will be hard to match MJs legacy... the guy was crazy...
> *
> Pippen did say tho two days ago on cold pizza that he thought it was possible for Kobe to surpass Mike... it's pretty interesting coming from Pip*


 If he said no, wouldn't he be a Kobe hater? I'd like for him to bet all his 6 rings on it.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Reading that, Pippen has been pretty inconsistent. That probably means he is on the fence about a lot the stuff he is saying, which is understandable given that the stuff we're talking about doesn't exactly involve no-brainers.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

23AJ said:


> I agree with everything Pippen said. And who would know any better? The guy is a top 50 player of all time. One of the most versatile defenders to ever play. And he played in a era where you could be physical. Players would get body slammed down to the ground when driving to the basket on a regular basis. It was called laying some wood/punishment on a player. And Pippen finished his career in an era where you put your hand on someone you are whistled for a foul even if it wasn't deliberate, and didn't have any effect on the play. Like Pippen said he would of fouled out in todays game if he guarded anyone the way he guarded Magic Johnson in the finals the first time down the court.



Very true, pretty much looked like 2 gay basketball players fighting each other for a ball.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Diable said:


> Prior to this season Kobe had one of the top 100 Player Efficiency Ratings seasons in the history of the NBA(#84 in 2002-2003 was 26.3) Lebron James second season is also on the list (#99 in 2004-2005 was 25.67).Judging by my cursory research it pretty clear that at comparable ages Michael Jordan was vastly superior to Kobe in every single year as were Wilt,Shaquile and David Robinson.Oscar Robertson was vastly superior until you compare him at 27 to Kobe at the same age and the same is true of Tim Duncan.By the standards of these players Kobe has only had one decent season in his entire career and only in this season does his statistical performance compare to the careers of the great players at younger ages.
> 
> By the way directly below Kobe's best PER season you will find Michael Jordan's Rookie season(#92 in 1984-85 at 25.85) He wouldn't have a lower PER until his final season with the Bulls (+25.2)
> 
> ...



comparing per for their careers up to this point is just as unfair as comparing their number of championships. while jordan and oscar were putting up his huge per's, kobe was winning titles with a guy named shaq on his team.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

kflo said:


> comparing per for their careers up to this point is just as unfair as comparing their number of championships. while jordan and oscar were putting up his huge per's, kobe was winning titles with a guy named shaq on his team.


 That's a very interesting argument unless you turn it around and ask why the fat and lazy Shaq was simultaneously putting up year after year as good statistically as Kobe is this year while he was playing with the Greatest player of all time(yeah).Then you have the problem that last season Shaq had another +27 season and DWade was +23 on that same team.This year Dwade and Shaq's PER's are roughly the same as the other's was last season.This argument is little more than an excuse and if there was any comparison between MJ and Kobe he wouldn't need so many excuses I think.Actually Chris Webber was as good or better than Kobe up until the age of 27 and he played on teams loaded with talent.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

kflo said:


> comparing per for their careers up to this point is just as unfair as comparing their number of championships. while jordan and oscar were putting up his huge per's, kobe was winning titles with a guy named shaq on his team.


 On the reverse side: Shaq put up huge PER's for the Lakers team so it is definitely possible to have an impressive PER with another dominant player.

Kobe's best PER till this season also came with Shaq during O'Neal last really monster year. He's had two season since then with (a relatively compared to MJ) anemic PER of 23. Pippen also of note was putting up similar but slightly lower PER number to Kobe (20-21 range) during the first 3 title runs where Jordan still had unbelievable PER's of > 29. Including one with a PER 31.7!!!!. 

MJ by any measure statiscally based on season performance was a better player then Kobe. We also have to wait to see what Kobe numbers looks at the end of the year before placing this season on par with a typical Jordan season


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

do you guys not think that playing with shaq impacted kobe's production? 

magic's per rocketed up when kareem gave way. magic didn't become significantly better in one year at age 27. the game plan changed, and so did his role. his lower per before wasn't an indication of his ability, it was an indication of his role.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> On the reverse side: Shaq put up huge PER's for the Lakers team so it is definitely possible to have an impressive PER with another dominant player.
> 
> Kobe's best PER till this season also came with Shaq during O'Neal last really monster year. He's had two season since then with (a relatively compared to MJ) anemic PER of 23. Pippen also of note was putting up similar but slightly lower PER number to Kobe (20-21 range) during the first 3 title runs where Jordan still had unbelievable PER's of > 29. Including one with a PER 31.7!!!!.
> 
> MJ by any measure statiscally based on season performance was a better player then Kobe. We also have to wait to see what Kobe numbers looks at the end of the year before placing this season on par with a typical Jordan season


playing with pippen is not going to have the same impact on your production as playing with shaq. kobe actually gets criticized for not deferring ENOUGH to shaq, and now we're going to criticize for not producing more? talk about your double edged sword.

there's no argument that kobe measures statistically with jordan. of course not. but context of per is important as well.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Jordan had 21 in the 1st quarter on his way to 51 points in 2003. He was 38 then and was not the same player. If he had his legs and also played in the same time, he could challenge Kobe's 81 points, but that's not taking away from Kobe but illustrating what a beast Michael Jordan was.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

kflo said:


> playing with pippen is not going to have the same impact on your production as playing with shaq. kobe actually gets criticized for not deferring ENOUGH to shaq, and now we're going to criticize for not producing more? talk about your double edged sword.
> 
> there's no argument that kobe measures statistically with jordan. of course not. but context of per is important as well.


 Not really when PER is involved you don't have to score a bunch and you're PER can go up by taking LESS shots: it's a measure of overall offensive impact - if for example he passed to Shaq more his assists would have gone up and as well if he didn't force bad shots his PER would not get reduced by missed FG's. Context should be taken into account for any statistic but in no way has Kobe measured up to Jordan until arguable this year (which is not anywhere near complete)


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

kflo said:


> do you guys not think that playing with shaq impacted kobe's production?
> 
> magic's per rocketed up when kareem gave way. magic didn't become significantly better in one year at age 27. the game plan changed, and so did his role. his lower per before wasn't an indication of his ability, it was an indication of his role.


 The Magic example is NOT a good one. He had 2 PER's great then 27 and one was BEFORE Kareem retired in 87 and when he had other players like Worthy who also had a nice PER.

Interestingly enough the out of the only 4 times his PER was above 25 was his second year when Kareem was still a dominant player. I would also like to point that Magic "deferred" to many different players in his career and had 4 PERs of greater then 26 despite scoring not nearly as much as Kobe.


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## bear23 (Feb 28, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> I think that Pippen said it best in this article:
> 
> http://www.nba.com/blog/blog30.html
> 
> ...


Pippen is right on the money. Scoring is way up and guards are leading the league in FG%. Kobe is extremely good in this generation of players but is still nowhere at MJ's level.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

bear23 said:


> Pippen is right on the money. Scoring is way up and guards are leading the league in FG%. Kobe is extremely good in this generation of players *but is still nowhere at MJ's level*.


I don't understand this kinds of stuff.

I'm not going to say that Kobe is better than MJ, or even equal. But why is he "still nowhere MJ's level"? 

Usual reasonings:

*1- "He hasn't won a championship being the main man" (aka "he rode Shaq's coattails to 3 rings"):*Championships are won by teams, not players. And Kobe has no team to compete. Give him another All-Nba 1st team player who accepts and thrives in the sidekick role and the best rebounder in the game and he WILL compete.

*2- "He hasn't won an MVP yet, let alone 5":*
- MVP doesn't equal being aknowledged as the best player in the league, Nash won it last year. Jordan "lost" a couple MVPs in his prime years when he was clearly the best player in the league.
- the MVP is awarded to a player in one of the best teams in the league (again, the TEAM factor)

^^ those reasons are almost purely team related, and have almost nothing to do with the players' individual skills.

Now, the rest:
- excellent scorer? Check.
- good defender? Check.
- All-Nba 1st team? Check.
- All-Defense 1st team? Check.
- Good passer? Check.
- Clutch? Check.
- Great playoff showings? Check.
- Unstopable one-on-one? Check.
- Athleticism? Check.
- Hops? Check.
- Quickness? Check.
- Good handler? Check.
- Capable of multiple triple-doubles? Check.
(...)

So, exactly why is Kobe Bryant nowhere NEAR Michael Jordan's level?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Well?

:wait:


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> Well?
> 
> :wait:


Like others have said, MJ surpasses Kobe in almost every facet of the game! Add the differences in each facet and you get a significant difference.

He's not near MJ's overall level yet...only scoring.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

GTA Addict said:


> Like others have said, MJ surpasses Kobe in almost every facet of the game! Add the differences in each facet and you get a significant difference.
> 
> He's not near MJ's overall level yet...only scoring.


I'm not questioning the "significant difference". 

I'm questioning the "not near" thingy.

IMHO, Kobe is NOT in MJ's "level". But he is not FAR from it. Like, he's close, but with a "significant difference".

Would you agree?




EDIT: Let me try to explain myself further...

1- Who is closer:

Dirk and Bird;
Kidd/Nash and Magic;
Kobe and Jordan.

2- Who is closer:

West to MJ;
Drexler to West;
Drexler to MJ.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> I'm not questioning the "significant difference".
> 
> I'm questioning the "not near" thingy.
> 
> ...


I can agree with that


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## JoeOtter15 (Apr 22, 2005)

Kobe is the best *scorer* of all time
Jordan was the best overall player of all time


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

i think Kobe is amazing and is equal to Jordan in scoring, but Jordan is the G.O.A.T. and Mike has played a whole career, being amazing his whole career. Give Kobe some time before we can say that he is as good as the G.O.A.T.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

Wow 39 games and Kobe has suddenly surpassed the *career * scoring excellence of Wilt and MJ? Best scorer ever, give me a break!


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

GTA Addict said:


> Wow 39 games and Kobe has suddenly surpassed the *career * scoring excellence of Wilt and MJ? Best scorer ever, give me a break!


That's what you get from the fanboys.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> The Magic example is NOT a good one. He had 2 PER's great then 27 and one was BEFORE Kareem retired in 87 and when he had other players like Worthy who also had a nice PER.
> 
> Interestingly enough the out of the only 4 times his PER was above 25 was his second year when Kareem was still a dominant player. I would also like to point that Magic "deferred" to many different players in his career and had 4 PERs of greater then 26 despite scoring not nearly as much as Kobe.


his 2nd year he only played 37 games. 

'87 was the year they consciously made magic the lakers primary offensive weapon. 

the point is that magic reigned in his game while deferring to someone else, resulting in a lower PER. when he had the green light, and '87 he was given the green light, his PER went up. immediately. his talent and skill didn't.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

GTA Addict said:


> Wow 39 games and Kobe has suddenly surpassed the *career * scoring excellence of Wilt and MJ? Best scorer ever, give me a break!


 Wow, at 27 years old Kobe in his prime is compared to the whole career of Michael Jordan? Give me a break!

As you can see, it works both ways*


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

Agreed, they shouldn't be compared. And saying Kobe is the best scorer ever because of the 39 games this season is just ridiculous. Let's let him finish out his career!


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Tragedy said:


> Wow, at 27 years old Kobe in his prime is compared to the whole career of Michael Jordan? Give me a break!
> 
> As you can see, it works both ways*


  I already made a pretty extensive post comparing Kobe's career by age to the truly great players and I believe it's rather conclusive that up until this point Kobe's career is far and away inferior not only to Jordan's,but also to Wilt,Oscar,Shaq,David Robinson,and Tim Duncan.In actual fact up to this point in his career Kobe's performance is far more comparable to players like Chris Webber at the same ages than to the true legends.That isn't a really bad thing,but it shows exactly how absurd it is to compare Kobe to MJ when the best season of his career thus far is just barely superior to MJ's first and last season as a Bull.In fact the best season in Kobe's career is roughly equal to an average season in Tim Duncan's career.The others are not even close.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Diable said:


> I already made a pretty extensive post comparing Kobe's career by age to the truly great players and I believe it's rather conclusive that up until this point Kobe's career is far and away inferior not only to Jordan's,but also to Wilt,Oscar,Shaq,David Robinson,and Tim Duncan.In actual fact up to this point in his career Kobe's performance is far more comparable to players like Chris Webber at the same ages than to the true legends.That isn't a really bad thing,but it shows exactly how absurd it is to compare Kobe to MJ when the best season of his career thus far is just barely superior to MJ's first and last season as a Bull.In fact the best season in Kobe's career is roughly equal to an average season in Tim Duncan's career.The others are not even close.


 Thats because out of those all of those players, Kobe is the only one that had come out of high school and sat on the bench his first 2 years. This has a lot to do with all of his stats. According to you and going by stats, Lebron is a better scorer because his career PPG is higher than Kobe's.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Diable said:


> I already made a pretty extensive *post comparing Kobe's career by age* to the truly great players and I believe it's rather conclusive that up until this point Kobe's career is far and away inferior not only to Jordan's,but also to Wilt,Oscar,Shaq,David Robinson,and Tim Duncan.In actual fact up to this point in his career Kobe's performance is far more comparable to players like Chris Webber at the same ages than to the true legends.That isn't a really bad thing,but it shows exactly how absurd it is to compare Kobe to MJ when the best season of his career thus far is just barely superior to MJ's first and last season as a Bull.In fact the best season in Kobe's career is roughly equal to an average season in Tim Duncan's career.The others are not even close.


 Learn to read.I know that Kobe was a sweet young thing once.I said comparing them by age...That is when MJ was 20 and Kobe was 20...Kobe wasn't close and the same can be said for any other comparison throughout any year up until this one comparing Kobe to Wilt,MJ,Oscar , David Robinson or Tim Duncan at the same age.

If you want to bring Lebron into then Lebron's second season is only slightly worse than Kobe's best season and this season their statistics are comparable.I guess Lebron must be around 20 now.That doesn't include defense of course,where MJ is much better than Kobe and Kobe is much better than Lebron at least to this point.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

It's eerie, if you look at Kobe's two seasons without Shaq, it looks a lot like MJ's first two full seasons:

2005 Kobe: 27.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 6.0 apg
1985 MJ: 28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg

2006 Kobe: 35.9 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.3 apg
1987 MJ: 37.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.6 apg

(purely a statistical comparison, not an actual player comparison)


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Diable said:


> I already made a pretty extensive post comparing Kobe's career by age to the truly great players and I believe it's rather conclusive that up until this point Kobe's career is far and away inferior not only to Jordan's,but also to Wilt,Oscar,Shaq,David Robinson,and Tim Duncan.In actual fact up to this point in his career Kobe's performance is far more comparable to players like Chris Webber at the same ages than to the true legends.That isn't a really bad thing,but it shows exactly how absurd it is to compare Kobe to MJ when the best season of his career thus far is just barely superior to MJ's first and last season as a Bull.In fact the best season in Kobe's career is roughly equal to an average season in Tim Duncan's career.The others are not even close.


do you think magic compared more to webber than to true legends at this point? 

c'mon - comparing him to webber is a joke, and shows a complete lack of objectivity on the topic. statistically, maybe you could make a small argument, but overall it's just not close. any objective assessment would reach that conclusion. no disrespect to webber.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

_________20____21____22___23___24____25____26__27
CWebber__21.7__20.1__23.6__21.8__20.9__19.5*_23.4_24.6
Kobe_____18.9___21.7__24.4_23.2__26.2__23.7__23.3

*Only 42 games due to injury


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

who died and made a certain poster a mod??? anyway since my thread was closed, ill put it in here. 


why does a certain fanbase claim that kobe is a better scorer than michael jordan because he scored 81 points and can shoot the 3 pointer? thans just silly. tony delk scored 53 points...paul pierce's career high is 48. is tony delk a superior scorer? raef lafrentz can shoot threes better than shaq...is he a better scorer? career average is a more sensible stat to look at...and MJ dominated kobe in every single regular season, every single playoff series, and every single thing to do with basketball period. kobe is kobe...but MJ is basketball.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> who died and made a certain poster a mod??? anyway since my thread was closed, ill put it in here.


Read the thread title of this thread, and read your post. There isn't anything in your post that needs an entirely new thread, especially with all the Kobe threads floating around already.


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## FreeSpeech101 (Jul 30, 2004)

If he can carry the Lakers into the playoffs and win a series or two we can start the comparisons...until then, hell no


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

This is sad, the Mods on these forums need work.....You can ban me or whatever you want (even though i'm speaking the truth, and not flaming).

You close the other guys thread, but you keep this thread going for 10 Pages? 

LMFAO!!! (Seriously)

MJ has 10 Scoring Titles, 6 Rings, 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs...So on and So Forth.

Just the Title of this Thread makes me laugh, and I haven't read any of the Posts in this, nor will I. Comparing Kobe to MJ is just sad, and it's funny that Most of these MODs are Kobe fans, they leave his Topic open.....but Close all the other ones....Sad.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> You close the other guys thread, but you keep this thread going for 10 Pages?


What should be done? Close this thread, even though it has 13 pages of discussion and debate, and keep duncan2k5's thread open, when it has zero posts? They are the same topic, except this topic already existed and has a lot of thought and effort put into it by the posters involved. That's why the other thread was closed, and I told duncan2k5 to feel free to post the contents of his thread in this thread, where it belongs. 

Please read EHL's sticky at the top of this forum (general) if you have any questions on why Kobe threads will be closed. There are already enough Kobe topics for you to express your opinions about him in. Bottom line.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

kflo said:


> his 2nd year he only played 37 games.
> 
> '87 was the year they consciously made magic the lakers primary offensive weapon.
> 
> the point is that magic reigned in his game while deferring to someone else, resulting in a lower PER. when he had the green light, and '87 he was given the green light, his PER went up. immediately. his talent and skill didn't.


 This is also the same Magic who could actually hit a 3 consistently : he was a complete player when Kareem retired: he was not before. He was in his prime when his PER was his peak. The same age when guys like Jordan also put up there peak numbers (even though MJ put up higher numbers from the beginning)

I'm also looking at other players. Drexler's PER did not significanly go down when he played with Hakeem the year he was traded to Houston. Shaq's had a ridicoulsy high PER whether he was playing with Hardaway, Kobe, or when healthy Wade. 

We're also not talking about a slight difference in PER btw Kobe and Jordan here. Jordan's PER compared year by year with Bryant has been 7-10 points HIGHER: that is a huge difference which cannot be simply explained away by Kobe playing with Shaq.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

If you have questions about why a moderator edited one of your posts, feel free to PM that mod, or any mod, and they'll be happy to explain it their reasoning.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> This is also the same Magic who could actually hit a 3 consistently : he was a complete player when Kareem retired: he was not before. He was in his prime when his PER was his peak. The same age when guys like Jordan also put up there peak numbers (even though MJ put up higher numbers from the beginning)
> 
> I'm also looking at other players. Drexler's PER did not significanly go down when he played with Hakeem the year he was traded to Houston. Shaq's had a ridicoulsy high PER whether he was playing with Hardaway, Kobe, or when healthy Wade.
> 
> We're also not talking about a slight difference in PER btw Kobe and Jordan here. Jordan's PER compared year by year with Bryant has been 7-10 points HIGHER: that is a huge difference which cannot be simply explained away by Kobe playing with Shaq.


magic was easily one of the top 3 players in the game prior to '87. his per didn't reflect that. it didn't stop everyone from recognizing how good he was. and he didn't add the 3 until '89.

drexler's per was already pretty low from a career standpoint when he went to houston.

dr. j went from a 26 to a 23 with moses. barkley from a 25 to 23. obviously, pippen took a nosedive in houston as well. not that kobe reigned it in to the same extent of course.

i'm not arguing that kobe measures up either statistically or overall. just that his per isn't reflective of his level of play. as recognized by how he's been viewed by his peers over the years. i love per as a measure, but it's still context dependent.


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## sic_D (May 5, 2005)

The only area where Kobe can match Jordan is scoring and that too will have to be seen over his entire career and not a few games.


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## Hoopla (Jun 1, 2004)

I've been away for a while, but upon returning I can't say I'm surprised to see the gluttony of Kobe threads here.

Anyway, I can't see how a case can be made for Kobe such that the answer to this thread's title would be yes. Kobe is a great player having a fantastic season, but he clearly falls short of Jordan. In only 39 games this season, Kobe has been a comparable scorer to Jordan, but this wasn't the case in his career prior to this year. Their passing skills are similar and Jordan was the better rebounder. It is defensively, however, where Jordan holds his most significant advantage over Kobe, one that is minimally taken into account with PER, yet the statistic still shows Jordan to be better by a solid margin.

Jordan doesn't completely demolish Kobe in the comparison, but it's not one which requires much insight to answer this thread's question. The difference in their level of play is similar to the difference between, say, Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing.

It has been overkill on this board, but Kobe-McGrady is still a much closer debate than Kobe-MJ.


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## FreeSpeech101 (Jul 30, 2004)

sic_D said:


> The only area where Kobe can match Jordan is scoring and that too will have to be seen over his entire career and not a few games.


 :clap:


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## FreeSpeech101 (Jul 30, 2004)

I'd even venture to say Jordan's 69 point game was more impressive, as he had 18 rebounds, 8 dimes, and 6 steals.


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## ChiSox (Jun 9, 2004)

Kobe's offensive game only compares to Jordan when he was 33 plus years of age. When Jordan was in his twenties he wasn't a great jump shooter because his first step was just as quick as Iverson and he finished most of his shots at the rim. I believe Jordan lead the league in dunks for serveral years. There really was not need to have a great jump shot.

Jordan didn't start shooting jump shots until the Pistons refused to let him drive by putting 2-3 people on him. This is when he started to use the fade away jump shots and shooting a lot of mid range shots. 

Kobe can jump like Jordan but isn't nearly as explosive as Jordan was. When there were great defensive centers Hakeem, Ewing, Mutombo, D Robinsoin, McHale etc... Jordan would drive to the basket and dunk on them or get them foul trouble. Kobe can dunk on you but he doesn't drive to the basket as much and MJ.

With the rules now (no hand checking), Jordan would have average 40 and lead the league in ft attempts. Kobe can drive, but he doesn't compare to Jordan.

I believe Kobe is a better man to man defender but Jordan was a better team defender...he played the passing lanes really well.


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## ChiSox (Jun 9, 2004)

For those of you who believe Kobe is better than Jordan. Do you think Kobe could win a championship over Isiah or Magic with the following players Horace Grant, Scottie Pippen, Bill Cartright, John Paxson? 

The Piston had Isiah, Dumar, Rodman, Sally, Aguirre, Lambeer and the Lakers had Magic, Worthy, B Scott, Divac, Sam Perkins, E Campbell, AC Green? I don't thinks so.

I do believe MJ would have won if he replaced Kobe on the those Laker teams. Actually the team with Shak, Payton and Malone would have won.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

This is why this thread needs be deleted.....

1. Look at the Topic of the Thread.
2. Compare MVP's.
3. Compare Scoring Titles.
4. Compare DPOY's.
5. Compare Championships.
6. Compare Winning % Without a Dominant Center.

PERIOD.....say somethin'.


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## B-Scott (Jan 17, 2006)

Check this out.

Put Kobe on the 1994 Chicago Bulls.

Bulls were 55-27 in 1994 (WITHOUT MJ) Advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs,and had it not been for a horrible call against Pippen in Game 5 with 5 seconds left,the bulls would have won that series in 6. The series went Game 7 Bulls vs Knicks. Bulls would have been playing Indiana for the ECF without MJ. Pippen had a MVP claiber yr,averaging like 22 points 7 assist 6 rebounds. Horace grant who was very underated averaged 15 points 12 rebounds. Bj armstrong was Money from 18 feet in the triangle offense. Toni kukok was Money from outside.

C Cartwright
PF Horace grant
SF Pippen
G Kobe
G BJ Arstrong

i think they would have beat New york and Indiana.Put kobe on this squad,and it would have been Bulls vs Rockets in the 1994 NBA FINALS. Pippen and horace grant proved in 1994 they were underated. Keep in mind,they should have advanced to the ECF without a kobe or MJ caliber player playing next to pippen.


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## B-Scott (Jan 17, 2006)

give kobe a squad that has the ability to win 55 games without him. Thats what MJ had in 1994. 1994 proved that the 91 thru 93 Bulls would have been over 50 wins without MJ.

Without kobe,Lakers couldnt win 25 games,let alone 55. That would be like putting kobe on the 2004 Pacers.


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## Silent But Deadly (Aug 15, 2003)

Kobe, already, is a more prolific scorer than Jordan ever was.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

B-Scott said:


> give kobe a squad that has the ability to win 55 games without him. Thats what MJ had in 1994. 1994 proved that the 91 thru 93 Bulls would have been over 50 wins without MJ.
> 
> Without kobe,Lakers couldnt win 25 games,let alone 55. That would be like putting kobe on the 2004 Pacers.


Coulda, woulda, shoulda, yada yada yada.


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## Wilmatic2 (Oct 30, 2005)

No comparison. Kobe Bryant is his own man.


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## -BasketBallBoy- (Jan 22, 2006)

We should stop comparing Kobe to Michael, Kobe is making his own name but for the sake of this topic, ill go along.

Kobe vs MJ

Experience: Tie
Though MJ has played a lot more games, Kobe has played a lot especially for his age.

Long Range:Kobe
Why? Kobe is not only way more accurate from downtown but from deep 2s.

Mid Range: Tie
I believe that Kobe's mid-range is just as good as Michael's.

Short Range: Tie
Pretty sure both of these guys can put the ball in the basketball.

Pure Scoring: Kobe
I truly believe that though MJ is a better overall player(for now), Kobe is the greatest scorer in the game as proven by his 81-point barrage.(Sorry Wilt but with your great advantage in height and strength, I believe Kobe has the upper hand.)

Basketball IQ: MJ
This however is based on popular belief. What would happen if Steve Kerr had missed the shot in the finals, do you think many people would still call Jordan unselfish?

Shot Selection: MJ
Kobe's shot selection is not that bad and its true I sometimes trust Kobe Bryant's 20- foot contested jumper over a 5-foot shot from Kwame. Kobe also has to take on more of an offensive load.

Degree of Difficulty:Kobe
If points were awarded to how hard the shot is, Kobe would be averages 100 points a game.

Defense: MJ
MJ edges Kobe in this category with his defensive player of the year award. Kobe however has made it to the All NBA Defensive Team.

Clutch: MJ
Because MJ played longer meaning more clutch moments. Good thing Jordan makes those shots.

Effect on Teammates: MJ
This is also based on popular belief. Jordan had way better teammates and I read on an article(please post a link) that when Kobe is on the court, his teammates play better.

Score: Kobe 3, MJ 5. 

Winner: MJ

Kobe is a great player and is surely one of the greatest players EVER to player this game. Just don't compare him to MJ because they are two different players. I dont there was a next Magic, a next Kareem, a next Bird, a next Mchale, etc. They are all great players and it is unfair to compare today's players with yesterday's players. After 15 years, we could be asking ourselves "Who is the next Kobe Bryant" :clap:


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## grizzos (Jan 31, 2005)

Just curious how many rings MJ would win with a starting lineup of..
Smush Parker ( who was out of the league last year)
Lamar Odom ( Overrated all star) 
Kwame Brown ( was the 8th man on a 8 seed the year before)
Chris Mihm ( Didnt start for a non playoff team)


Im pretty sure stick Kobe with

Pippen -- Rodman and Kukoc he could win some Jewlery.. Hell they almost did it that one year without jordan.


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## ravor44 (Feb 26, 2005)

No..Jordan was better..he has MORE IMPACT TO HIS TEAM-MATES...


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

ravor44 said:


> No..Jordan was better..he has MORE IMPACT TO HIS TEAM-MATES...


Yeah, Steve Kerr's black eye is a testament to that! Pippen had more of an influence on his teammates than Jordan.


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