# AI To Denver:



## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

> The Denver Nuggets have reached an agreement in principle with the Philadelphia 76ers to acquire Allen Iverson, according to NBA front-office sources.
> 
> The trade, pending league approval, some two weeks after Iverson demanded a trade in Philly, would send Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks to the Sixers for Iverson and perhaps another minimum-salaried player or two. It was expected to be completed later Tuesday barring any snags


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2702501


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Clippers are ****ing retarded.


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## CLIPSFAN89 (Oct 12, 2005)

We need to get over it and move on. We need to focus on trading Maggette for the best option out there asap because of the locker room issue which may be causing chemistry problems for the whole team. Its not Corey's fault, its the management's fault for handling the situation the way they did and letting it just drag on for this long without really resolving the issue. If both sides have made up their minds that the current situation is not going to work, then they need to trade him and move on as soon as possible and try to salvage this season. 

I just hope Cassell and Mobley is not going to be offended permanently because of the trade rumors they were involved in in the Iverson trade.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

CLIPSFAN89 said:


> We need to get over it and move on. We need to focus on trading Maggette for the best option out there asap because of the locker room issue which may be causing chemistry problems for the whole team. Its not Corey's fault, its the management's fault for handling the situation the way they did and letting it just drag on for this long without really resolving the issue. If both sides have made up their minds that the current situation is not going to work, then they need to trade him and move on as soon as possible and try to salvage this season.
> 
> *I just hope Cassell and Mobley is not going to be offended permanently because of the trade rumors they were involved in in the Iverson trade.*



i'm not sure of how mobley is feeling, but i'm sure sam is offended and will somehow show his displeasure over the course of this season...


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## NOFX22 (Sep 28, 2006)

This ****ing sux! WE HAVE TWO 1ST ROUND PICKS AS WELL TO GIVE AWAY!!! Oh well whats done is done. Now trade our two 1st round pick for a top 3 pick and Ill be happy!!! Hell trade maggette to the Bulls for Ny 1st round pick!!! God this season is over


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

Thank God. I can continue cheering for the Clippers.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

squeemu said:


> Thank God. I can continue cheering for the Clippers.



i'm with you on that...


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Denver is going to be a monster when their players come off of suspension...

At least the Clippers players won't have this as a distraction.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Weasel said:


> At least the Clippers players won't have this as a distraction.


Yeah, those championship runs tend to get in the way of player development.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Well, clippers just threw away their only chance at a championship for the rest of the decade. 

We will be lucky to make the playoffs this year.

Good job dunleavvy and baylor for the most idiotic non-move in team history.


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

The belief that Iverson would have helped the Clippers get to the finals baffles me. Especially with Mobley, Cassel (or Livingston), and Maggette gone.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

How does that baffle you? Iverson would have made everyone around him better by taking focus off. Iverson by himself would have bettered the output of maggette and mobley. And whoever else would have gotten livingston's minutes could easily equal what livvy has averaged for the season. 

sixers most likely would have given up korver to get livvy from my sources. If you do not think korver and AI is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over maggette/livvy or even maggette/livvy/mobley, then i guess we view stats and basketball differently. Then there are the intangibles such as how we get blown out on runs in the 3rd and 4th quarter because we dont have that superstar guy that can take over a game for us...


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

leidout said:


> Yeah, those championship runs tend to get in the way of player development.



one of the best lines i've read...:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## CLIPSFAN89 (Oct 12, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> How does that baffle you? Iverson would have made everyone around him better by taking focus off. Iverson by himself would have bettered the output of maggette and mobley. And whoever else would have gotten livingston's minutes could easily equal what livvy has averaged for the season.
> 
> sixers most likely would have given up korver to get livvy from my sources. If you do not think korver and AI is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over maggette/livvy or even maggette/livvy/mobley, then i guess we view stats and basketball differently. Then there are the intangibles such as how we get blown out on runs in the 3rd and 4th quarter because we dont have that superstar guy that can take over a game for us...


What has Iverson done in his career to make you think that he would be capable of taking us to the championship in the West? This season he had Webber, Igoudala, Korver and Dalembert on his team and they couldn't win a game in the Eastern conference. He took the sixers to one NBA Finals and almost got swept by the Lakers and that was 5-6 years ago when he was only 25-26 years old. I'm not saying that he's not a great player but to give up all those players especially livingston who is only 21 and looks to be coming along strong ever since he has become a starter for a 31-32year old guy is not a smart trade for future IMO.


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

^exactly. I just fear that Iverson is too much of an individual player, and he would have stuffed the stat sheet but wouldn't actually have done much to help the team.

I'm not saying AI wouldn't have helped the Clippers go far in the playoffs, but it certainly didn't seem like it was going to be a sure thing.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

CLIPSFAN89 said:


> What has Iverson done in his career to make you think that he would be capable of taking us to the championship in the West? This season he had Webber, Igoudala, Korver and Dalembert on his team and they couldn't win a game in the Eastern conference. He took the sixers to one NBA Finals and almost got swept by the Lakers and that was 5-6 years ago when he was only 25-26 years old. I'm not saying that he's not a great player but to give up all those players especially livingston who is only 21 and looks to be coming along strong ever since he has become a starter for a 31-32year old guy is not a smart trade for future IMO.



Iggy is the only one out of those players you mentioned with talent. Those others are useless, really. No idea why Dalembert got that contract, Korver can't do much, but shoot, and Chris Webber is not the same Chris Webber, he may put up pts, just that is all he can do. There is not much talent there.


I'm not sure I would give up on Livingston, just yet, but clock is ticking, how many more yrs before you guys do so? And will it be before others know he might ever be the player some he can be? Which will decrease the chance on getting someone of this calibur. And who knows, it may also end up like with what you see with some other HS players, and how they develop elsewhere.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Dissonance19 said:


> Iggy is the only one out of those players you mentioned with talent. Those others are useless, really. No idea why Dalembert got that contract, Korver can't do much, but shoot, and Chris Webber is not the same Chris Webber, he may put up pts, just that is all he can do. There is not much talent there.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I would give up on Livingston, just yet, but clock is ticking, how many more yrs before you guys do so? And will it be before others know he might ever be the player some he can be? Which will decrease the chance on getting someone of this calibur. And who knows, it may also end up like with what you see with some other HS players, and how they develop elsewhere.


here is livingston's game log:

livingston game log

he has started the 10 out of the last 11 games, and the last 8 total...

his averages over the last 8 games that he has started:

13ppg/7.6apg/4rpg...

i think he has been good...it's the rest of the clippers that suck...


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Who cares about the future? When will Livingston even become close to the player iverson is? if ever? We have a shot to take the championship NOW. 

Iverson does not have that great of a supporting cast. And he hasnt. He never had a team that had an elton brand, kaman, tim thomas, mobley, cassell, qross, etc. etc. on it. Hes had a couple decent players, but not the dominating big man (i dont count a disgruntled, hobbling webber as a dominating big man), and the depth that the clippers have.

Then you can look at the clippers needs, and how they lose games last year and this year, and hes pretty much the answer (no pun intented). 

If all we had to give up was a bench player in maggette, and Livingston plus fillers, for AI, or include mobley to get korver, that is a drastic improvement. 

Talk about future, in a couple years we will have a HUGE salary coming off of the books, and will allow us to get someone else. After we give livingston an extension next year, we are capped out for years and years.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Livingston is playing the best ball of his career, and those numbers are mediocre at best when compared to iverson. And its not like since his rookie year livvy has shown any kind of constant improvement that would make one think hell be worth what the clippers do in 2 or three more years. 

Arguably hes playing not that much better he did in his rookie year last month, and thats a year and a half ago.


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

well the clippers have to move on from this situation and focus on some other trades


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

yeah. lets see what we can do for maggette. Last year, our first ever midseason trade worked out well, wilcox for radman. Lets see if we can do well again.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

If Livingston manages to play 40 games this year, who knows he may be okay after all. Meanwhile, Denver is going deep into the playoffs...


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

Clips not getting AI isn't the Clips fault, it's the Sixers being stupid. Clippers could have given them a better deal even without Livingston.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Denver and san antonio my pick for the western conference finals. 

Sixers only wanted ONE contract that would be around for a while. They didnt want to have to have cassell AND maggete for another year, not to mention mobley's for a few years. Talent wise of course our deal was better, but for their salary cap plan, the denver deal works wonders for them.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

universal! said:


> Clips not getting AI isn't the Clips fault, it's the Sixers being stupid. Clippers could have given them a better deal even without Livingston.


They did offer them better deals. Unfortunately the Sixers wanted crap that expired and that was the problem. The biggest expiring the Clippers have is Rebraca at only 3 million.


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## El chido (Dec 21, 2005)

I am sure that 76rs traded Iverson for junk because they are going to go for ODEN in the draft.


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## CLIPSFAN89 (Oct 12, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> Livingston is playing the best ball of his career, and those numbers are mediocre at best when compared to iverson. And its not like since his rookie year livvy has shown any kind of constant improvement that would make one think hell be worth what the clippers do in 2 or three more years.
> 
> Arguably hes playing not that much better he did in his rookie year last month, and thats a year and a half ago.


You cannot compare Livingston's stats right now to Iverson's stats. They are not the same type of player and Livingston will never be a scorer Iverson is and thats not what we drafted him for. 

We haven't seen a drastic increase in Livingston's stats because he hasn't gotten consistent minutes or starting minutes like he is getting now. I believe his overall game is improving and he showed improvement last season in the playoffs and in this preseason getting some increased minutes. He has worked on his shot and that is going to improve as he plays more as well. If he's going to continue to start and get the minutes he is getting now, the numbers will show that and he will get better as he acclimates himself to the role of running a team IMO.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> You cannot compare Livingston's stats right now to Iverson's stats. They are not the same type of player and Livingston will never be a scorer Iverson is and thats not what we drafted him for.


Ok. iverson age 21 (first year in league): 24 points, 8 assists, 2 steals, 155 3's made

livingston age 21 (third year in league): 9 points, 5 assists, .6 steals, 12 projected 3's made for the year.

Youre right, you cant compare livingstons stats to iversons stats. You dont draft a PG, or give a 50 million dollar extension to one who is going to have a problem averaging 8 assists or so, or 14 points or so. We would see a drastic increase in stats if livvy deserved it. He was stinking it up the first part of the year, so his playing time was down. Now, he HAS to play since cassell is injured. Hes putting up career high numbers that still dont touch iverson.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

yamaneko said:


> Ok. iverson age 21 (first year in league): 24 points, 8 assists, 2 steals, 155 3's made
> 
> livingston age 21 (third year in league): 9 points, 5 assists, .6 steals, 12 projected 3's made for the year.
> 
> Youre right, you cant compare livingstons stats to iversons stats. You dont draft a PG, or give a 50 million dollar extension to one who is going to have a problem averaging 8 assists or so, or 14 points or so. We would see a drastic increase in stats if livvy deserved it. He was stinking it up the first part of the year, so his playing time was down. Now, he HAS to play since cassell is injured. *Hes putting up career high numbers that still dont touch iverson.*


who in the league right now can compare to iverson anyways? not many, if at all...you can't say livy sucks, because his numbers don't equal iverson's...no one in the league can match them...


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## CLIPSFAN89 (Oct 12, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> Ok. iverson age 21 (first year in league): 24 points, 8 assists, 2 steals, 155 3's made
> 
> livingston age 21 (third year in league): 9 points, 5 assists, .6 steals, 12 projected 3's made for the year.
> 
> Youre right, you cant compare livingstons stats to iversons stats. You dont draft a PG, or give a 50 million dollar extension to one who is going to have a problem averaging 8 assists or so, or 14 points or so. We would see a drastic increase in stats if livvy deserved it. He was stinking it up the first part of the year, so his playing time was down. Now, he HAS to play since cassell is injured. Hes putting up career high numbers that still dont touch iverson.


Iverson is one of the best basketball players and a scorer in the NBA and it's difficult to compare their stats but the stats you mentioned above is a little misleading. Iverson was a starter playing 40+ minutes on a team where he was the number one option and the focal point of the offense. Livingston is supposed to be a facilitator and if you look at the last 5 games that he has started and played starter minutes (38mins/game), he's averaging 14 pts, 8.2 assts, 4.4 rebs, and shooting 50% from the field while playing defense on the other end. 

All I'm saying is I think we need to give Livingston his chance to play as a starter and see how he fares before we decide if he's a bust or our future.


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

universal! said:


> Clips not getting AI isn't the Clips fault, it's the Sixers being stupid. Clippers could have given them a better deal even without Livingston.


oh c'mon, why would they want washed up Mobley with a bad contract and often hurt Maggette for AI, WHY?

Livingston had to go!


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Now that i think of it, im not really mad at the sixers, compared to being mad at the pacers last year for using us at the end. 

I mean, its not like the sixers were asking for much. They were asking for maggette, who we wanted to get rid of, some fillers, and livingston, a player who hasnt shown much improvement and is probably only the 6th or 7th best PG to come out in the draft the last few years. 

I dont blame them for turning down the other deals. Heck, id have been pissed if i was the sixers, when a team turns down one of the 50 greatest players of all time, saying that they value a 9 point, 5 assist player more.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

yamaneko said:


> Now that i think of it, im not really mad at the sixers, compared to being mad at the pacers last year for using us at the end.
> 
> I mean, its not like the sixers were asking for much. They were asking for maggette, who we wanted to get rid of, some fillers, and livingston, a player who hasnt shown much improvement and is probably only the 6th or 7th best PG to come out in the draft the last few years.
> 
> I dont blame them for turning down the other deals. Heck, id have been pissed if i was the sixers, when a team turns down one of the 50 greatest players of all time, saying that they value a 9 point, 5 assist player more.


damn, if livingston sucks so bad, why did the sixers want him so bad?


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## matador1238 (May 3, 2006)

Livingston doesnt suck. He is a great passer, long arms, good defender, improving jumpshot and getting more aggressive on the offensive end. He is just suck compare to Iverson.....
Oh well....lets focus on trading Maggette.....for Mike Dunleavy Jr.... :no:


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> damn, if livingston sucks so bad, why did the sixers want him so bad?


The same misguided reason the Bulls traded #1 pick & rookie of the year & 20/10 Elton Brand for a high schooler like Tyson Chandler...


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

alexander said:


> oh c'mon, why would they want washed up Mobley with a bad contract and often hurt Maggette for AI, WHY?
> 
> Livingston had to go!


They could have given the Sixers Maggette, Cassell and two 1st round 07 draft picks. Maggette's and Cassell's contracts both expire in 2 years (at the same time as Webber's) and Clipper's picks are likely higher than Denver's.

Sixers got Joe Smith, Andre Miller, and two picks (bottom first), which isn't that much greater than the Clips offer. Miller is a pretty good player in terms of assists, but he has three years left on his contract.

The argument can be made that the Sixers choose Denver (and also why they wanted Livingston so much) because they needed a decent or promising PG.


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## Colby Briant (Jan 29, 2003)

clippers are stoopid. i would have traded your entire team for iverson. marquee player, perennial allstar to go along with brand. clips arent going anywhere this season with or without iverson. you might as well get him on your team then. even if you dont win a chip, at least you sell out every night and have the leagues leading scorer on your team. 

clips should have made a bold move and given up livvy. no guts, no glory.


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