# Ben wallace, delonte west, joe smith, wallyz to cavs



## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

outgoing are ira,cedric,larry,drew 3 team confirmed on espn


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

good deal, you guys got some nice pieces


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

delonte really makes this deal nice


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

ben wallace, however, is not one of them


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

I'll say good deal as you got some rotation players and bolstered up your depth a bit, but WTF why BEN WALLACE??

I hate that and I'm sure Lebron must hate it too inside..


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Wallace and Smith will stopgap the bleeding at PF until Varejao gets back.

But DELONTE! I can't wait. And Wally Z should be a good fit. Joe Smith is basically Donyell Marshall. I hope he doesn't play.

We finally have a point guard to play with Lebron! And one that can play off the ball really well. We can play a Boobie-Delonte backcourt in the future.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

can't wait to sick delonte on Rajon Rondo.


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Wallace and Smith will stopgap the bleeding at PF until Varejao gets back.
> 
> But DELONTE! I can't wait. And Wally Z should be a good fit. Joe Smith is basically Donyell Marshall. I hope he doesn't play.
> 
> We finally have a point guard to play with Lebron! And one that can play off the ball really well. We can play a Boobie-Delonte backcourt in the future.


Joe is basically Donyell Marshall? Joe Smith is much, MUCH better. Offensively, definitely yes, but defensively let's not even waste time arguing this.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

hendrix2430 said:


> Joe is basically Donyell Marshall? Joe Smith is much, MUCH better. Offensively, definitely yes, but defensively let's not even waste time arguing this.


Really? I haven't watched Smith much this year. I know he's old, and his best days are behind him. But how has he looked this year? I assumed he looked washed up.


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## Iskender (Feb 18, 2008)

Is this trade sure?


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

yes...it's official. what a weird trade. seems like ferry and paxson just wanted to make some trades and seattle jumped in to dump some salary. 

are ben wallace and Z going to play together? or does varejao start now? 

what's the starting 5?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

crimedog said:


> yes...it's official. what a weird trade. seems like ferry and paxson just wanted to make some trades and seattle jumped in to dump some salary.
> 
> are ben wallace and Z going to play together? or does varejao start now?
> 
> what's the starting 5?


Varejao will start. He was better than Gooden anyways, they just didn't start him because of Drew's fragile psyche. I think Delonte is a lock to start as well as our new point guard.

When everyone is healthy the lineup will probably be this:

Delonte
Sasha(or Boobie?)
Lebron
Varejao
Z

With Wally Z, Boobie(or Sasha), Ben Wallace(Joe Smith), Devin Brown rounding out the roation.

And then this summer we probably deal Snow's expiring and Damon Jone's expiring for some thing. On top of our draft picks.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Joe Smith is WAY better than Marshall.

His range doesn't extend out as far (but really Marshall isn't hitting it so consistently) but he is water from 18 feet and in on his jumper. He's a hell of a roleplayer. He'll definitely help the Cavs. I'm happy he'll be in the playoffs. Hard worker, hustles, just a great teammate and glue player.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Joe Smith is basically Donyell Marshall. I hope he doesn't play.


Are you kidding? Joe Smith is having a great year.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Delonte isn't much of a playmaker. I wouldn't expect that from him. Just defense and 3's really.

Cleveland improves their strengths of rebounding and three pointers. Definitely a good move. I have a hard time believing that Wally wont start...

Delonte
Wally
Lebron
AV or Wallace
Z


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Ruff Draft said:


> Delonte isn't much of a playmaker. I wouldn't expect that from him. Just defense and 3's really.
> 
> Cleveland improves their strengths of rebounding and three pointers. Definitely a good move. I have a hard time believing that Wally wont start...
> 
> ...


Well with Gibson and Pavlovic injured the only way Wally doesn't start is if Mike Brown starts Devin Brown. So I think he's pretty much guarnteed to start initially.

It just remains to be seen what they want to do with that position long term. Pavlovic when he comes back will obviously need to play much better to keep his spot over Wally. I think Gibson will be in the backcourt next season with Delonte though. Unless we get a better 2 this summer.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Joe Smith is tearing it up this season. He is way better than Marshall.


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## tweedy (Apr 4, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Really? I haven't watched Smith much this year. I know he's old, and his best days are behind him. But how has he looked this year? I assumed he looked washed up.


Joe has been the Bulls' most consistent player this year. Active in the post, stellar shooting from the field and the free throw line.

Could anyone tell me about Larry Hughes' season? Can he still play?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Great deal for NEXT YEAR!

We pick up another 5 million I think in expirings
Lose Gooden, Marshalls, and Simmons expirings

Pick up Wallys 12+ million and Joe Smiths expirings to add to Snow's and Jones contracts. Plus remember Sasha is only partially guaranteed his third year so he's almost an expiring as well

Got to love Ferry with this move: for this year we still upgrade with Wally, West, and Smith. Wallace is crap but Joe Smith is having a good year. Once we get healthy we got a lot of depth and lots of time to figure who we want to keep because next year we're going to be the biggest players in the market. Everyone is going to want to deal with us to get all our exping cash


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

*double post*


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Aurelino said:


> Joe Smith is tearing it up this season. He is way better than Marshall.


Whats Wally's contract look like?

And is Ben Wallace's terrible contract the same lentgh as Larry or one more year?

And Joe Smith off the bench is a great upgrade over Marshall. I think you start Ben Wallce and still use AV's energy off the bench. 

As well I think Ben Wallace is brought in to defend the likes of KG and Dwight Howard in the playoffs, maybe this will remotivated Big Ben of the past.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> Great deal for NEXT YEAR!
> 
> We pick up another 5 million I think in expirings
> Lose Gooden, Marshalls, and Simmons expirings
> ...


As for as our rotations as a completely healthy team, what do you think?

Boobie-Sasha-Lebron-Wallace-Z Bench: AV,West,Wally,Smith,Devin Brown/Damon Jones.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Just my glimpse at the numbers but excluding Sasha only partially guaranteed 3rd year and AV's player option 3rd year which I'm sure he'll decline: we went from 24 million to *29 million* in expirings next year. We can pick up 2 Gasol's with that kind of expiring money :drool:


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I imagine West would start with Sasha when healhty for defesive purpsoes? I figure we'd bring Wally in to spell Lebron and when we go small. Boobie will come off the bench and we'll finish with whoever hotter that day Boobie or West at the PG. We still have Devin Brown to help on defense as well.

Frontcourt is going to be real strong. I don't expect much out of Wallace but he'll be a big help against phyical big men who have given AV and Z trouble in the past. More importantly Joe Smith has been very good this year

Right now becuase of the injuries I see us going with something like Z/Wallace/Lebron/Wally/West to start. Go with Wallace to start to help the defense out with Wally sucking at D. Lots and lot of way we can do this: Mike Brown is going to love this as he can finally match up defensively any which way he wants. West also for the first time gives us a decent PG defender


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## SyracuseOrange15 (Jan 9, 2007)

Good trades Cavs fan, Hope it works out for you, Im a LeBron fan.


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## Legend-Like (Mar 25, 2006)

Wow very good pieces for the Cavs. You guys blame Danny Ferry for being a bad Gm now


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Interesting trade. I'm very eager to see how this works out. Wallace hasn't been playing well this year but maybe Mike Brown can get something out of him. Perhaps a few weak side, help defense blocks every now and then.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Do these players start in Friday's ESPN game?


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

your going to need defense & shot blocking in the playoffs, thats what ben is for.. hes not what he used to be, but hes still better then 80% of bigs.

the contract is a killer, but realistically, cleveland got 4 of the 5 best players in the deal.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Really? I haven't watched Smith much this year. I know he's old, and his best days are behind him. But how has he looked this year? I assumed he looked washed up.


Future,

Joe has been playing some of the best ball of his career, He seems to have found the fountain of youth.

He more than offsets the loss of Drew. They are throwing a ticker tape parade in Chicago over trading Ben, which pretty much mirrors the feeling in Cleveland over Larry. 

I like the pick up of Wally for you, he may fit great in your offense.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

I'm a little worried for the Cavs perimeter defense. Lebron will have to guard EVERYONE now.


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## fuzznuts (May 23, 2006)

i hope wallace doesn't bring in his newfounded "fade-away" jumper from the post, or his "hook shot" he's been working on.


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

SamTheMan67 said:


> delonte really makes this deal nice


Come on, now. The only thing Delonte stands out in is looking like he has herpes.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Ruff Draft said:


> I'm a little worried for the Cavs perimeter defense. Lebron will have to guard EVERYONE now.


Well they still have Pavlovic when he's healthy, and Delonte and Boobie can both stand to be good perimeter defenders. Mike Brown just needs to keep working on them.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Yeah the defense will get better once Pavs gets back. He was actually playing better D then hughes I thought before the injury


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Should also point our interior and rotational D just got a WHOLE lot better just by losing Gooden


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Should also point our interior and rotational D just got a WHOLE lot better just by losing Gooden


IMO that is the single biggest improvement that'll come from this trade.

People are REALLY underestimating how much Drew hurt our defense. He was the one guy who consistently failed to rotate to the weakside. And that happens to be one of Wallace's specialties.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I like the deal (Don't LOVE it, but I like it)

I'm high on Delonte West, he is a nice young piece that should fit well with LBJ and develop nicely. We need shooting and defense from the PG spot and he provides that, along with decent size.

Wally Z will be a decent fit because he can shoot and is an intelligent player. Concerned with his defense but his role should be off the bench behind Pavlovic so not a major concern. He is a guy who can put up 15-20 points though which is a BIG boost for our squad. 

Wallace/Smith - hmm...I like Joe Smith alot, in some ways he alone is better than Gooden. As several folks have said he has a high bball IQ, can shoot the 15 footer, defend, etc. 

Ben Wallace I'm not a huge fan of, but I understand he had to be involved to dump Larry. I think he could contribute at PF next to Z, and also gives us a solid backup center if we want to use him in that role. 

I was tiring of Drew but Larry was starting to grow on me with his improved play...wish him the best. 

Here's who I see us going with:

PG - West/Boobie/Damon Jones
SG - Pavs/Wally
SF - James/Devin Brown
PF - Varejao/Smith/Wallace?
C - Z/Wallace/AV/Dwayne Jones

Man that is some serious depth in the frontcourt...we will be a terror defensively when Pavs gets back. Also factor in the value of the expirings next year, we will be in a good position for major deals. 

Also we retained our 1st round pick, and added a 2nd rounder, which is another positive.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I wonder who will start at PF?

It would be interesting to start a Wallace/Z duo but teams would double off Wallace to trap Lebron. If you start AV, he moves too well off the ball for teams to do that. Joe Smith is a very good player too...I've been watching him alot living in Chicago. 

At the same time having the luxury of bringing AV's energy off the bench would be big.

I could also see it working out where Joe Smith is the starter, and we bring in Wallace/AV off the bench (again that is some nasty depth!)


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## TheTruth34 (Jul 22, 2006)

i really just dont like the trade for the cavs.
it doesnt give them another person who can take over scoring when lebrons out or play consistently along him.

And the whole Wallace, Illgauskas thing is just WEIRD.

id prolly honestly play wallace at the 5 even though hes shorter kuz he cant shoot worth a crap. and Z can.

matchup nightmares for some teams.

then you have the lebron, wally and delonte backcourt...i dunno.
wish you luck cavs fans, but im just not seeing Cavs gettin by Celtics or even Orlando for that matter.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

TheTruth34 said:


> i really just dont like the trade for the cavs.
> it doesnt give them another person who can take over scoring when lebrons out or play consistently along him.
> 
> And the whole Wallace, Illgauskas thing is just WEIRD.
> ...


I think the idea is the value of our expirings next year ($29MM) would be when the Cavs look to add that bonafide section option scorer your thinking of.

The reality is Lebron is so good, he doesn't need THAT much help at all. With the strength of the frontcourt now, one strong perimeter piece added with the expirings next year could put us over the top


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

TheTruth34 said:


> i really just dont like the trade for the cavs.
> it doesnt give them another person who can take over scoring when lebrons out or play consistently along him.
> 
> And the whole Wallace, Illgauskas thing is just WEIRD.
> ...


Z doesn't play close to the basket all the time anyway. We'll just have to utilize him in the pick and pop more often because he'll deal with more doubles on the block. If he can pass over a double to Wallace, that'd be great.

But Z's a perimeter-oriented big man anyway.


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## UrFavTeamSux (Jan 17, 2007)

The truth is we really did not give up much at all. We got rid of the majority of our bench, Hughes which makes us as happy as Bulls fans are to get rid of Wallace, and Drew whose roll could easily be filled by a health AV which majority of us wanted to see start in front of him in the first place. Plus, I feel like there's always the option we can see a reemergence of Wallace as he was with the Pistons, rather than the Bulls. It was a good shakeup move, and I'm eager to see how it'll turn out.

Plus we have people that can hit 3s now! woohoo


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wow, Charles likes the trade!!


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

If wally is anything like what he was in Minnesota, you have one hell of a shooter.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Disappointed in David Aldridge's analysis.

Clearly, people have absolutely no idea how much Drew hurt our defense.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Im not sure on this one. You didnt give up a lot...but you also didnt acquire much of real value. Wallace is overrated, Joe Smith is solid if unspectacular. I think the best part is Delonte West. A big point guard who can make shots. Lebron is your primary ball handler anyway, so West will fit nicely.

PG - West
SG - Sczerbiak
SF - James
PF - Wallace
C - Ilgauskus

Is that the lineup you will run? Or will Pavlovic start? Boobie?


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

This trade made the Cavs even better then what they had before. If Lebron took a team of him and a bunch of scrubs (not named Z, Gibson) with this new look Cavs team they should be the favorites to play in the finals. 

I'm guessing the Cavs would go with a line -up of -- 

PG: Delonte West
SG: Wally 
SF: Lebron James 
PF: Big Ben
C: Z 

key bench:
Gibson, Varejao, Damon Jones, Joe Smith, Devin Brown, and Pavlovic 

Some posters said Varejao should start and Wallace should be the back -up. I don't see that happening because you need the Big Bens presence down low who is going to block shots, interior D, and rebound. Then Wally would be a great 2nd option along side L.James who can shoot the ball from 3pt and has a great mid range game also.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I think Joe Smith should start. He is having a great year and is a much better mid-range shooter than Drew Gooden. Once Varejao comes back, then you start Varejao and Z and have Wallace and Smith off the bench at the 4/5.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

I'm excited to eventually see AV starting. 8/8 off the bench is just a tease of what he can do.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

This deal definately improves Cleveland on paper, but the more I think about it, they might have some matchup issues now with the other teams at the top of the East.

How are they going to defend Rip Hamilton and Ray Allen? I don't see anybody in that rotation who even has a prayer of keeping up with Rip coming off screens. Or how about if Orlando goes big? Who are the going to put on Turkoglu? They can't play Gibson and West at the same time, that would be a nightmare defensively. Lebron is going to have stick with Pierce and Prince at all times, the rest of that group is going to have real trouble guarding good 2 guards.

And whoever says Delonte West provides defense and shot making clearly hasn't seen him play recently. He hasn't done anything close to resembling either this year.

Joe Smith and Ben Wallace improve the front court big time, but I'm not sure they've found much help at the guard spots.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

MLKG said:


> This deal definately improves Cleveland on paper, but the more I think about it, they might have some matchup issues now with the other teams at the top of the East.
> 
> How are they going to defend Rip Hamilton and Ray Allen? I don't see anybody in that rotation who even has a prayer of keeping up with Rip coming off screens. Or how about if Orlando goes big? Who are the going to put on Turkoglu? They can't play Gibson and West at the same time, that would be a nightmare defensively. Lebron is going to have stick with Pierce and Prince at all times, the rest of that group is going to have real trouble guarding good 2 guards.
> 
> ...


Well Sasha should be back in the near future, and he'll solve a lot of these defensive issues that you bring up. He actually did a reasonably decent job of trying to chase Rip through all the screens during the playoffs last year, although no player in the NBA can realistically consistently keep up with Rip.

Remember, if West plays PG for us, we're still going to be a very tall team overall (with Sasha as the SG). I don't think teams are going to give us trouble by going big.

And actually, Wallace is relatively good at guarding players smaller than him out at the perimeter, so with AV in there we have some options in terms of throwing some looks out if teams go small against us. 

We'll have some issues to think about, no doubt. But I think within the framework of Mike Brown's defense, we'll be a MUCH improved team defensively once the new players get accustomed to their roles.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Sasha as much as he's sucked offensively this year really was a solid defender. He's big and physical so I think we'll be fine. Devin Brown can also be used


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## UrFavTeamSux (Jan 17, 2007)

why am I under the impression that Gibson would be a good defensive presence?


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

i am really excited about how this will change the rotation...first of all the starters have to be as follows:
pg: west
sg: wally
sf: lebron
pf: wallace
c: Z

you can't start smith and have wallace and AV come off the bench together, lack of offensive skills (like shooting) prohibits that, but it still gives us a great rotation for the 4 and 5, and if need be lebron can always play some pf if we want to go small ball

i also like moving sasha back to the bench, on offense he seems hesitant when he's on the floor with lebron, but much more aggressive when lebron is off the floor, so our second unit is now: boobie, sasha, devin brown, smith and av, which is very capable, in other words no more going from up 5 with lebron takes a breather to down 10 when lebron comes back 48 seconds later
we still would have damon jones to rotate in on occasion and eric snow to keep the coaches company

and please don't let anyone forget the lebron effect on any power forward who plays with him, i really think we can expect 6-10 pts from ben wallace just because he's playing with lebron, just make sure ben knows he is only allowed to dunk the ball, lebron will be able to find wallce for easy dunks, especially when defenses have to respect wally and boobie from 3pt land and big Z and joe smith from 18 feet out, i think it could easily mean 3-4 dunks a game for wallace (he can still jump, right?) from either lebron passes or offensive rebounds


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

So we will be playing with 8 guys tonight? (friday vs Wiz?)


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

I know drew loved the fans of cleveland and did not want to leave i wonder how hes reacted im kinda sad to treat someone so into the cavs like that but you gotta do what you gotta do


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Just dropping in to concur with the Joe Smith praise going on in this thread - you'll be quite satisfied with him as a vet big off the bench. Mid-range jumpers are money, good FT%, knows his role.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Again. This is the linuep I go with.

Delonte
Sasha
Lebron
AV
Z

Bench Unit:
Boobie, Devin, Wally Z, Joe Smith, Ben Wallace

But for now with AV, Pavs, Boobie injured that bumps Wally into the starting lineup, and maybe Wallace over Joe Smith, so we can have Smith's scoring with the second unit.

Next year I'd like to see this lineup(or changed if we get a good player in the draft)

Boobie
Delonte
Lebron
AV
Z

Bench:
Wally, Smith, Wallace, Devin, Pavs

I really don't want to see Ben Wallace starting over AV. AV deserves to start now that Gooden is gone. He looks like he's added scoring ability this year, and I just think he's really our second best player, and it's time he logged serious minutes.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> I really don't want to see Ben Wallace starting over AV. *AV deserves to start* now that Gooden is gone. He looks like he's added scoring ability this year, and I just think he's really our second best player, and it's time he logged serious minutes.


If you were to start your 5 best players, AV would for sure be an 100% starter. But thats not always the best way, he can get starter minutes off the bench. I would start Ben Wallace, let him bang in there to start the game off, keep him happy and just plug him in there for Gooden and keep our bench as close to what it was, which was very good.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yeah but if you start Ben Wallace you are eating into Joe Smith's minutes. Which doesn't make sense. Both Joe Smith and AV are better than Ben Wallace. I don't understand cramming him in the starting lineup. If Big Ben wants to earn his spot more power to him. But I thought we only took him so that we could dump Hughes?

My problem with playing Wallace at all is that he's the Eric Snow of big men, and teams are going to be doubling Lebron off of him. Whereas if we start AV or Joe Smith that won't happen.

Ben Wallace should be Z's backup. And AV and Joe should be our power forward rotation. With Dwayne Jones filling in when there is foul trouble.


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## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> Ben Wallace should be Z's backup. And AV and Joe should be our power forward rotation. With Dwayne Jones filling in when there is foul trouble.


That's it. :clap2:

Wallace shouldn't be playing PF.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I agree, my ideal rotation I think would see Z with AV in the starting lineup. And we'd have 2 very capable backups in that case.

However, we all know AV is going to finish games, like always. And there's always the question of whether Wallace will pout if he's not starting. It'll be interesting to see how this all unfolds.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Wallace will have an opportunity early to try and steal the starting role. Since Andy is injured right now. But I think by the start of next season, AV will be starting.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Second best part about this deal for Cleveland...their cap situation just got a lot better.

Next year, they will have $24.7 million in expiring contracts with Sczcerbiak, Damon Jones and Eric Snow.

Vince Carter? Tracy McGrady? Michael Redd?

They are going to be able to seriously make a run at some big name players over the offseason or around next year's deadline.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Second best part about this deal for Cleveland...their cap situation just got a lot better.
> 
> Next year, they will have $24.7 million in expiring contracts with Sczcerbiak, Damon Jones and Eric Snow.
> 
> ...


Exactly. 

Morons like Ric Bucher were saying that this was a 'do-or-die' type of deal for the Cavs. WTF? He's the exact opposite of correct.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Second best part about this deal for Cleveland...their cap situation just got a lot better.
> 
> Next year, they will have $24.7 million in expiring contracts with Sczcerbiak, Damon Jones and Eric Snow.
> 
> ...


Whoa. You mean you don't have to be a Cavs fan to see that?

It's clear when you look at the deal, Ferry was trying to build for that. None of the contracts are extra years, and the extra money just increases the chunk we have to trade with our expirings.

I think we'll make another run at Redd before it's all said and done.


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## number1pick (May 24, 2007)

futuristxen said:


> Really? I haven't watched Smith much this year. I know he's old, and his best days are behind him. But how has he looked this year? I assumed he looked washed up.


Probably be a better idea to watch him before making stupid statements. He's been averaging 17 and 8 when he starts, and is much better than Marshall. ALL Marshall can do is shoot 3's and if they aren't falling he's useless. Smith is a smarter player both offensively and defensively. 

Wallace, I think, will be re-energized by the trade to a legit contender and to play for a player's coach again(his best days were with Carlisle, whom Brown coached under for years). Brown stresses defense and rebounding which are Wallace's strengths. He will be able to go back to being the weakside defender in Cleveland with Z there. Wally is great for Lebron, a great shooter that will get a lot more open shots now that he is playing with the best/2nd best player in the league. West is also great for this team. Good defender, can score and create for himself, can shoot, and can play the point fairly well for stretches. 

Cavs depth is much improved now.
C - Z
PF - Wallace
SF - Lebron
SG - Wally
PG - Gibson(when he gets back)
Bench:
West, Varajeo, Smith, Sasha, Brown. 

They are now 10 deep and all have experience. Cap wise, both Z and Wallace expire in 2010. 

great trade by Cleveland. They were already better than Detroit. Now with more talent and finally having some depth they probably put themselves up with Boston. Have to be co-favs in the East with Detroit and Boston.


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## number1pick (May 24, 2007)

futuristxen said:


> Yeah but if you start Ben Wallace you are eating into Joe Smith's minutes. Which doesn't make sense.  Both Joe Smith and AV are better than Ben Wallace. I don't understand cramming him in the starting lineup. If Big Ben wants to earn his spot more power to him. But I thought we only took him so that we could dump Hughes?
> 
> My problem with playing Wallace at all is that he's the Eric Snow of big men, and teams are going to be doubling Lebron off of him. Whereas if we start AV or Joe Smith that won't happen.
> 
> Ben Wallace should be Z's backup. And AV and Joe should be our power forward rotation. With Dwayne Jones filling in when there is foul trouble.


Problem with starting Smith AND Z together is then you don't have any offense coming from PF/C position off the bench. Varajeo still isn't developed enough offensively to be a starter. If he and Wallace are playing a lot of minutes together Lebron won't have any room to operate in the paint because both AV and Wallace are pretty much useless outside of the lane.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Second best part about this deal for Cleveland...their cap situation just got a lot better.
> 
> Next year, they will have $24.7 million in expiring contracts with Sczcerbiak, Damon Jones and Eric Snow.
> 
> ...


That number is closer to 29+ million: Joe Smith's contract is also expiring. Don't know why people keep forgetting about him. He maybe the best player in the deal lol


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Morons like Ric Bucher were saying that this was a 'do-or-die' type of deal for the Cavs. WTF? He's the exact opposite of correct.


More evidence that all Ric Bucher does is dreaming of being as close to Kobe as possible at all times


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

number1pick said:


> Problem with starting Smith AND Z together is then you don't have any offense coming from PF/C position off the bench. Varajeo still isn't developed enough offensively to be a starter. If he and Wallace are playing a lot of minutes together Lebron won't have any room to operate in the paint because both AV and Wallace are pretty much useless outside of the lane.


You seem to know as much about AV as I do about Joe Smith this year. AV has shown a capable jumpshot this year, and an effective post game. He was averaging 8-8 off the bench before getting injured. Compared to Gooden's 11-7. I really don't see why we won't start AV when he gets back(I've heard he might be back tonight actually?). Ben Wallace should have to earn his minutes. He shouldn't just be handed the job ahead of two guys who have been outplaying him for the past year. That BS should have gone out the door with Gooden.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

number1pick said:


> Problem with starting Smith AND Z together is then you don't have any offense coming from PF/C position off the bench. Varajeo still isn't developed enough offensively to be a starter. If he and Wallace are playing a lot of minutes together Lebron won't have any room to operate in the paint because both AV and Wallace are pretty much useless outside of the lane.


AV's jumpshot was a lot improved this year. I think that's why you see him finish all the games and the regular Cavs posters believe he deserves to start.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

With Mike Brown, it doesn't matter who starts. Except for 3rd quarters he does a pretty admirable job of giving minutes to players who deserve it. Just might take him some time to get there (he does love vets: he'll play Wallace a lot initially to see what he has left)


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If Mike Brown doesn't start Ben Wallace will the national media throw a fit?
For some reason the National Media loves Ben Wallace even though he's sucked for a minute.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> If Mike Brown doesn't start Ben Wallace will the national media throw a fit?
> For some reason the National Media loves Ben Wallace even though he's sucked for a minute.


Ben Wallace will pout if he doesn't get to start. I think just like Gooden, you keep him as a spot starter to keep him mentally focused and positive about his role on the team. 

It's not ideal but if Wallace can at least move off the ball Lebron will find him at the rim off double teams and he can at worst put the team in the penalty faster drawing fouls


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

futuristxen;
I really don't want to see Ben Wallace starting over AV. AV deserves to start now that Gooden is gone. He looks like he's added scoring ability this year said:


> Oh no, if you do not start Ben he will go into the biggest full blown pout you have ever seen. Then he will act surly until the whole team has to ask him whats wrong.
> 
> You see...
> 
> ...


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

They should just buy Ben Wallace out. Just like Chicago should buy Larry Hughes out. Both guys are worthless.

Anyways.

Anyone see this quote from Bill Simmons:
"I mean, even if you got back a dead body for Larry Hughes, it would have been a moral victory."


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

> s for the other big trade this week, kudos to Danny Ferry for somehow getting four of the best five players in an 11-player trade. That has to be some sort of record, right? I already made the case for Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West helping the Cavs in my Trade Machine piece Wednesday (scroll down to trade 4A), but the Chicago guys pushed the deal over the top for me. First, Drew Gooden needed to go -- he was too inconsistent and too much of a bonehead, and we neared the point when a fed-up LeBron might punch him in the face during a game about three months ago -- and Joe Smith gives the Cavs steadier minutes and reliable production with those minutes. (Maybe Smith's ceiling isn't as high as Gooden's from game to game, but when you have LeBron you need consistency from the rest of the guys more than anything else.) Second, the fact Ferry was able to trade an overpaid guard who actually drove a frustrated Cavs fan to create a site called www.heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com and update it every day ... I mean, even if you got back a dead body for Larry Hughes, it would have been a moral victory.Instead, the Cavs got back the Artist Formerly Known As Ben Wallace, someone who stopped being an elite rebounder and shot-blocker about three years ago, but someone with playoff experience and the ability to defend bigger guys like KG, Shaq or Duncan. He certainly makes more sense for the 2008 Cavs than Larry Hughes did. Anyway, I thought the Cavs could win the East _before_ this trade, simply because none of the Eastern teams have someone who can match baskets with LeBron in a close game. Now? They're the favorites. Look, I love the Celtics, I watch them every game, it has been the most enjoyable season in 15 years. ... But a playoff series almost always comes down to one question as long as both sides are relatively equal:
> _Which team has the best guy?_
> 
> 
> Well, LeBron is better than anyone else in the East. So if you were beating Cleveland this spring, it was happening because your supporting cast was significantly better than LeBron's supporting cast. That's why this trade was so dangerous for Boston and Detroit; it shortened the sizable gap between guys 2 through 12 on Cleveland and guys 2 through 12 on Boston and Detroit. Now LeBron has four shooters who have shot 40-plus from 3-point range at least once in their career (Wally, Delonte, Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic), three seasoned rebounders (Wallace, Smith and Anderson Varejao), a scoring center (Zydrunas Ilgauskas) and, best of all, no Larry Hughes screwing up everything. LeBron is in a much better place than he was last year, and what's even more frightening is that he has been playing out of his mind since last April. I know the Celtics are 41-11, and I know the Pistons have been there a million times ... but still, how could you bet against LeBron in the East when he's playing like this?


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080223


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Haha, yeah I liked that article by Bill Simmons. Very surprised he took us over the Celtics.

But hey, he's seen West and Wally play, so that can only be a good thing, right?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Most of the ESPN guys on TV are ripping us for the trade because they say we got rid of our cap flexibility, and Ben Wallace won't pan out(completely ignoring the other players we got in the deal). Typical ESPN bull****.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Most of the ESPN guys on TV are ripping us for the trade because they say we got rid of our cap flexibility, and Ben Wallace won't pan out(completely ignoring the other players we got in the deal). Typical ESPN bull****.


What's ironic is we actually *improved* our cap flexibility next year.

ESPN Analysts are being paid to know that kind of stuff


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

CHeck that Walton and Steven A love the deal. Walton said we just made ourselves the toughest out in the Eastern Playoffs.

I hope this deal finally allows the national media to give us some respect.


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