# Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Arenas



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

> The rumor that will never die has regained new life, as Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports is reporting that the Wizards are engaged in serious discussions with the Orlando Magic to acquire Gilbert Arenas. According to the report, discussions have intensified in recent days, but the parameters of the deal are unclear. But a league source said late Friday night, "It's very close. A really strong possibility."
> 
> Arenas has long been rumored to be headed to Orlando, where he would be reunited with friend and mentor Otis Smith. The Wizards spoke with the Magic last summer about making a deal for Vince Carter but while those conversations stalled, they never ended.
> 
> ...


...


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## Juggernaut (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas*

Would be sexy if they could include Lewis in the deal, it'd be auto win in that case


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Must involve VC


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

shhh......

listen.....

That's the sound of HB's head banging on the concrete wall.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

The Magic are already overpaying so many players, might as well


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

How about Gilbert Arenas for Baron Davis?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Unless it involves Carter or Lewis, horrible idea.


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## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Read Gortat might be involved in the trade. That'd be great for Washington if it happens.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Looks like the Magic are only a few desperation moves from trading themselves out of contention.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Pay Ton said:


> Looks like the Magic are only a few desperation moves from trading themselves out of contention.


That's what I was thinking. It's good that they realize they need to make a move to make themselves a true contender, but this is not the deal. Arenas is not the answer. 

They need to go after someone like Iguodala or Monta Ellis, or of course Carmelo.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Sir Patchwork said:


> That's what I was thinking. It's good that they realize they need to make a move to make themselves a true contender, but this is not the deal. Arenas is not the answer.
> 
> They need to go after someone like Iguodala or Monta Ellis, or of course Carmelo.


Or Stephen Jackson & Gerald Wallace both of which they could probably get for Vince Carter + filler.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Knicks4life said:


> Or Stephen Jackson & Gerald Wallace both of which they could probably get for Vince Carter + filler.


I was going to say how ridiculous that idea is, but then I remembered that Vince Carter is a Tar Heel.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Magic need to clear the decks around Howard and renovate a bit. Find takers for Carter, Lewis, Nelson, and part with whoever else you need to to get those crap contracts out of there. Howard's still young enough to where you could manuever and get the team back to top-tier status in a couple/few years time to coincide with Howard's prime.

It doesn't sound fun in the meantime (although they should still be comfortably in the playoffs during the re-tooling years), but they're not going to get any better with all this dead weight on the team. However, in all this, you do run the risk of Howard not really buying it and jumping ship in 2012, when I believe his contract is up.

But seriously, if Gortat is involved here but Carter and Lewis aren't, Otis Smith is a ****ing moron.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Stephen Jackson would be good too. Wallace is a very good player, but doesn't complete Orlando like Jackson would.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

If they could talk Charlotte into it, Carter for Jackson and Diaw wouldn't be too shabby. Diaw's on an expiring contract and his floor spacing combined with good passing would bring something a little different to the Magic. Jackson's on much shorter money than Carter for similar production. 

I know Carter's a Tar Heel and all that, but I definitely couldn't justify Charlotte acquiring him, from a basketball standpoint. So who knows how much of a shot that would have.

Still need to get Lewis out of there though.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

They should ship Gortat and Reddick out to Phoenix for Hedo. It's ridiculous that they re-signed a backup center, Gortat, and signed Brandon Bass for together more money than Hedo got from Toronto.

I don't care Otis if you don't want to pay that much money for Hedo. Guess what? He got that offer from two different teams. It's called market value.

How is it okay to hand out almost $20 million a year for Gortat, Bass, and Reddick after you refuse to give $10 million to your linchpin?

If Phoenix doesn't want Reddick then see if they will bite on Mighty Mouse. That guy is terrible. The Heat are getting better PG play from Carlos Arroyo for 1/10th the cost of that midget.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

You don't exchange Florida orange for DC orange. You trade orange for ipod or iphone.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Ballscientist said:


> You don't exchange Florida orange for DC orange. You trade orange for ipod or iphone.


Orlando managing no want pay iphone data fee they so rather drinking orange juice from playoff.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

^I doubt that would elevate Orlando to true contender status. Also, Turkoglu is also owed almost twice as much as Gortat, and both their contracts would expire at the same time. So financially you haven't really accomplished much, other than saving about $3 mil in the meantime.

EDIT: @Adam's Turkoglu post


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Floods said:


> ^I doubt that would elevate Orlando to true contender status. Also, Turkoglu is also owed almost twice as much as Gortat, and both their contracts would expire at the same time. So financially you haven't really accomplished much, other than saving about $3 mil in the meantime.
> 
> EDIT: @Adam's Turkoglu post


It's not a salary move. Gortat has more value to Phoenix than Turkoglu. Turkoglu doesn't work for their team and they need size. So Phoenix is getting the better end of the deal and a rotation player to boot in Mighty Mouse or Reddick.

Turkoglu works for what Orlando does. If they can turn a backup center and a crap player into a linchpin starter then they should do it.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Adam said:


> Gortat has more value to Phoenix than Turkoglu. Turkoglu doesn't work for their team and they need size. So Phoenix is getting the better end of the deal and a rotation player to boot in Mighty Mouse or Reddick.


No argument here.



> Turkoglu works for what Orlando does. If they can turn a backup center and a crap player into a linchpin starter then they should do it.


If it's not going to elevate you to championship status, and it does nothing for you financially (especially considering all the dead weight contracts Orlando's carrying anyway), why do it at all? Focus your efforts and resources into getting Carter, Lewis, Nelson and company out of there.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Floods said:


> No argument here.
> 
> 
> 
> If it's not going to elevate you to championship status, and it does nothing for you financially (especially considering all the dead weight contracts Orlando's carrying anyway), why do it at all? Focus your efforts and resources into getting Carter, Lewis, Nelson and company out of there.


I'm not sure it doesn't help their championship hopes. They get to plug another starter in exchange for spare parts. Gortat was a big deal because he would come in and outplay Howard but you have to assume those days are over so there's really no need for a 12 minute a game playoff center. The Heat picked that up in Erick Dampier on a pro-rated contract.

Also, Hedo isn't finished. He has a good two or three years beyond this one. Howard is like Tim Duncan in terms of keeping his team a contender and management just has to keep bringing in pieces through draft and free agency.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



> Alex Kennedy Tweet:
> 
> One source says Gilbert Arenas to Orlando is done with an announcement expected tomorrow and debut on Monday. Still no word who Wizards get.
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA/status/16017401699106816


...


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



> One more:
> 
> If Wizards get Rashard Lewis as @BQRMagic believes, it sounds like the Magic will continue to shop Vince Carter and Marcin Gortat package.
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA/status/16017976603967488


...


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Why would they want a backcourt of Mouse and Arenas? That's too small to compete. They need to trade the midget and play Arenas at point.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Adam said:


> Why would they want a backcourt of Mouse and Arenas? That's too small to compete. They need to trade the midget and play Arenas at point.


They're too small for the Lakers, but they could get away with it against the Celtics and Heat. You can guard Ray with anyone as long as they're willing to chase him around all those screens. Wade is a threat to anyone, but him and Arenas are about the same size, no? Plus with a great defensive anchor, an undersized shooting guard isn't the worst thing in the world. 

I don't like the trade, but I think they could get away with Arenas at the 2.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Yeah, being undersize at the two is overblown. I mean outside of Kobe and Wade how many SG's are really posting up these days? Besides you have Howard back there to cover alot of the holes. 

Anyway, I don't see how this helps Orlando. It seems like a lateral move unless Gilbert turns the clock back to 2006-07.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

If it's for Lewis straight up, it's still not a great trade. They basically gain an extra year of Lewis's deal at a slightly lower AAV. Hopefully there's picks or a little bit of additional talent involved, though I doubt it.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Surely not just for Rashard straight up...surely...!?


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



> League sources confirmed that Smith has talked with the Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, and Denver Nuggets. Orlando has had discussions with the Suns about a deal that would bring Hedo Turkoglu back to Florida. Lon Babby, the president of basketball operations in Phoenix, allegedly didn't make the trip to Dallas recently so that he could continue working the phones.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18226


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

The Magic are stuck, they made their moves a couple years ago. This isn't "the answer" but this is the best they can do with their assets.

In theory this doesn't change a ton about who they are, Dwight wasn't getting the ball enough anyway. Maybe since Arenas likes Otis Smith he'll be gungho to be a real point guard and get Dwight more good looks, but at the least they'll finally have a competent scorer, for better or worse.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Don't like it if its Lewis/Arenas straight up. A deal involving VC would be a lot better, and isn't his contract unguaranteed this year?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

I have no idea why the Wizards would take back one bad contract for another.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Dre™ said:


> I have no idea why the Wizards would take back one bad contract for another.


They don't want John Wall to be near Arenas and is afraid that Arenas will get injured or go crazy. Rashard Lewis at least just keeps his mouth shut and launch 3s.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Lewis in Washington would be scary. He actually complements their team, and more space for John Wall! 

Only reason Orlando should bring in Gilbert Arenas is if they plan on moving Jameer for decent value. We can not afford to have a midget backcourt of shoot 1st players. Gilbert would need to be the starting PG, and we would need to package Meer for impact SG or SF. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Carter would've done the same thing plus he expires.

So again I say


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

call me crazy but I actually think Vince has a lot more trade value than Arenas. They more or less give you the same thing on the court and Vince comes 60 mil cheaper.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Why would we give u an expiring for 'Quality Shots', and his horrid contract? :laugh: Are we getting a pick out of this?? Didn't thinks so... 

Lol, we would be doing you a favor by giving you a player on a shorter deal, and a player that can actually complement ur franchise player without stepping on toes. Gilbert doesn't even fit our roster, as is. We have no reason to want to do this, unless a major overhaul is underway.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

I would expect it would be a VC for Arenas deal. I don't see how this makes the Magic any better regardless. I understand Wizards wanting to dump him though. With that nasty contract they won't even be able to unload him in a Gasol/Kwame deal.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



seifer0406 said:


> call me crazy but I actually think Vince has a lot more trade value than Arenas. They more or less give you the same thing on the court and Vince comes 60 mil cheaper.


He does but that doesn't mean you trade Lewis instead. Lewis would have less value than Arenas if the trade wasn't getting Arenas out of DC.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Adam said:


> They should ship Gortat and Reddick out to Phoenix for Hedo. It's ridiculous that they re-signed a backup center, Gortat, and signed Brandon Bass for together more money than Hedo got from Toronto.
> 
> *I don't care Otis if you don't want to pay that much money for Hedo. Guess what? He got that offer from two different teams. It's called market value.*
> 
> ...


No, **** that. It's so gay that Hedo got more money than Lamar Odom that summer, and we all knew it. It was all bull-****, n no Hedo wasn't worth it. **** LA too, and there lucky bull****. They always get what they want. So yeah, **** them, lol. If Hedo was offered fair value, we wouldve kept him. Meanwhile LA gets to keep LO on a sweet deal. Funny when we actually make a fiscally responsible move, and we still get heat for not overpaying. 

You could argue all you want, but Bass is better than Hedo.. And Gortat, he is making fair money for a guy his size/talents. Your legit beef here is with JJ Redick, but it's only a 3 yr deal, and if we're trading VC then it makes more sense. Yeah we got problems, but we had a nice little run for a small market team... Now it's time to break down and build back up.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Really Orlando?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

It's looking like at this point Arenas to Orlando is done, it's a matter of working out the rest of the overhaul. Otis is trying to get the Suns (or another team) involved in a 3-way deal, but he's willing to make separate deals if need be. Looks like Lewis, Carter and Gortat could all be headed out with Arenas the only sure thing to be coming to Orlando. Turkoglu is obviously the guy coming from Phoenix that everyone's talking about, but I've heard Otis really wants Jason Richardson and is working hard to make that happen. 

I also strongly disagree with the notion that the Magic are going to trade themselves out of contention. Let's be clear, they are NOT a contender right now, Boston and Miami have clearly separated themselves in the East. That is a fact, and the Magic can't afford to sit around in no man's land at a step below being contenders with no hope of improving in the near future by just sitting around. Obviously an overhaul of this magnitude is a risk, but it's a gamble the Magic should absolutely be willing to take. Stay tuned to see what ends up going down.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Before the deadline's over the Magic needs to make a move even its for the sake of making a move since what they have now isn't enough to get past Boston and they need to show Dwight that they realize it. There have also been reports from a few weeks ago and recently that cited that the Orlando players are not happy at some of their peers and you gotta think VC and probably Shard too are the elephants in the locker room.

Imo Gil's going to be an upgrade over Vince since he's younger and more of a passer than VC but he won't be a significant enough upgrade to become a favored contender. The biggest change the Magic can hope for is an intangible shift in attitude for their locker room since as it stands right now Pierce's trolling tweet calling the Magic a "bunch of poodles" aptly describes their lack of mental toughness. 

Having both Nelson and Arenas would be a small backcourt but against Boston they don't have to worry about a big two guard. Against the Lakers, maybe Nelson's and Gil's speed could create potential problems for Kobe and Fisher.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Pump Bacon said:


> Before the deadline's over the Magic needs to make a move even its for the sake of making a move since what they have now isn't enough to get past Boston and they need to show Dwight that they realize it. There have also been reports from a few weeks ago and recently that cited that the Orlando players are not happy at some of their peers and you gotta think VC and probably Shard too are the elephants in the locker room.


Vince Carter? Yes, absolutely. Rashard Lewis? No. Lewis is potentially on his way out because of his contract and relative lack of production on the court, but make no mistake about it -- he's a popular locker room guy and a great teammate. Vince is a prima donna and doesn't fit in and I'd have to assume is who they're referring to.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Seriously, getting rid of Lewis is addition by subtraction. I may not like Carter at all, but I still like him more than Lewis. Hope you enjoy losing in Washington Lew.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

I had a gut feeling that this was the reason John Wall has been sitting out. Knee tendinitis is something all players deal with and play through. My guess is that they've been trying to showcase Arenas the last few games.


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## Wade2Bosh (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



> Chris_Broussard Magic & Suns closing in on deal to send Hedo/jRich to Phx for Vince and Gortat. "90 pct" chance of it happening, sources say. Within 24 hrs
> 
> Chris_Broussard Orlando also close to moving rashard Lewis to Washington for Arenas and a big to replace Gortat


Wow


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

My worst nightmare. Smh @ Hedo back in Orlando. Ill only believe it when i see.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Orlando essentially builds the same team with worse players. 

Damn this is just stupid. Rebuild you idiots. Nothing you can do except getting Chris Paul can make you contenders. Now you are about to ensure you waste Howard's prime with BS players.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

So what's the Magic lineup now?

PG- Jameer Nelson, Gilbert Arenas
SG- Jason Richardson, Mickael Pietrus
SF- Hedo Turkoglu, Quentin Richarson
PF- Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson
C- Dwight Howard, Daniel Orton

??


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

We are becoming the Mavericks of the East..


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Panic moves.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Lmao, they are just making a move for the sake of making one.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



> Full deal: Phx sends Hedo/J Rich/Earl Clark to Orlando for Vince/Gortat/Pietrus, 2011 first round pick and cash considerations, sources say


Chris_Broussard


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

Although J-Rich is an upgrade over VC IMO even though he is kinda of a space cadet out there.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

This is happening so fast. Here, take a seat HB and catch your breath.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*

I hope Washington doesn't make that deal though. I like Ted Leonsis a lot and when Arenas has two or three years left on his deal they will be able to move him to a contender that is over the cap and is looking for a piece to put them over the edge.

Nobody will ever want Rashard. He's unmovable until he's in the final year and that's no good. It takes them out of the 2012 mega free agency. Arenas is one of the worst contracts now but he can be moved in time. Lewis is the worst contract in the league.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

I updated the thread title.

Hm. Not the kind of move I wanted the Suns to make. But I like Gortat and getting Pietrus/1st rd pick makes it better. Meh on VC. Hope we ship him somewhere else.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

I don't know what to make of these deals for Orlando. It seems lateral at best.

Hedo Turkoglu was not very good in his final season with the Magic. I don't know why people are forgetting that. He was only good against Boston and Cleveland in the playoffs. He was mediocre during the regular season and horrible in the first round and the finals.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Adam said:


> I hope Washington doesn't make that deal though. I like Ted Leonsis a lot *and when Arenas has two or three years left on his deal they will be able to move him to a contender that is over the cap and is looking for a piece to put them over the edge.*
> 
> Nobody will ever want Rashard. He's unmovable until he's in the final year and that's no good. It takes them out of the 2012 mega free agency. Arenas is one of the worst contracts now but he can be moved in time. Lewis is the worst contract in the league.


Um, Orlando is that team lol.. 

Funny that we're acting like Rashard Lewis is useless. Dude is simply playing on a crowded team. In Washington Lewis will fit right in. He can go and get his own shot on the block, he can spread the floor for Wall, he can be a nice complimentary piece. With proper oppurtunity(and proper position), he is easily good for 15+ a night on a bad team imo.



> I don't know what to make of these deals for Orlando. It seems lateral at best.
> 
> Hedo Turkoglu was not very good in his final season with the Magic. I don't know why people are forgetting that. He was only good against Boston and Cleveland in the playoffs. He was mediocre during the regular season and horrible in the first round and the finals.


That's what im sayin.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

lew and gil have terrible contracts, but gil is a much better player, gil was awesome prior to his knee injury and guncharge.
on paper meaning nba2k11... arenas-richardson-turkoglu-bass-howard sound interesting. im not sure how good they can still play and how the will gel. also, will howard be enough as the only good defensive presence? lots of shooters there, howard might see the ball even less bus could hav 10/20 games...


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

I'm assuming they are going to use Arenas as the instant offense 6th man. But they get smaller with this deal. I don't know if I like it. I wonder if they'll look to trade Nelson.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Well Orlando had to do something...This qualifies as something, but I don't know what.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Arenas and Richardson younger than Carter and Lewis and better players at this stage. I suppose we had to take Hedo back to get Richardson but Suns took Gortat long contract as well. If injuries stay away, I am happy with Magic deals...
Richardson was great last season in playoffs...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Doesn't put them over Bos and Mia


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Blu said:


> Um, Orlando is that team lol..


Yup. But Rashard Lewis isn't the right contract. He only has one less year than Arenas and his contract runs through 2013 when they absolutely have to have capspace in 2012.

Leonsis is getting some bad advice (typical Grunfeld) if he makes this move. There will always be teams like Orlando that will want to acquire Arenas to put themselves over the top. Rashard on the other hand is immovable. If you trade down to get him nobody else is going to trade a sooner expiring contract for that guy.

It will be like everyone in the NBA is playing old maid face up and Washington is holding the old maid. Nobody is going to take that card from them.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

The Magic do improve...J-Rich is better than Vince. Not sure about Pietrus/Hedo swap, but I like the J-Rich acquisition. I like Arenas as a player better than Lewis as well. They'll be a better team IMO, although maybe not a contender. I don't fault them for trying to improve though. It's hard to say, "if we don't get Chris Paul, we're going to rebuild". Dwight wouldn't like that.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

I really dont understand this at all - Richardson is a nice fit - hedo is cooked, they get smaller, their defense suffers - I do not like Arenas at all


----------



## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

So you a Suns fan now, HB?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Nope


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



seifer0406 said:


> shhh......
> 
> listen.....
> 
> That's the sound of HB's head banging on the concrete wall.


Why? He's going to an organization better than the Raptors.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



e-monk said:


> I really dont understand this at all - Richardson is a nice fit - hedo is cooked, they get smaller, their defense suffers - I do not like Arenas at all


Hedo is garbage for nearly everyone but is the perfect piece for Orlando's system. It's perfect. He's the only all-star level talent (for them) that they can acquire with their crappy trade pieces.

Was this even rumored before today? It's so freaky that I was talking about this in this thread less than 12 hours before it went down and I hadn't heard a word of Hedo going back to Phoenix. It's just so logical when you figure how available he is right now.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Adam said:


> Hedo is garbage for nearly everyone but is the perfect piece for Orlando's system. It's perfect. He's the only all-star level talent (for them) that they can acquire with their crappy trade pieces.
> 
> Was this even rumored before today? It's so freaky that I was talking about this in this thread less than 12 hours before it went down and I hadn't heard a word of Hedo going back to Phoenix. It's just so logical when you figure how available he is right now.


But the Magic dont have Lewis anymore. They've also traded away one of their best 3pt scorers in Pietrus and who is their backup center now? Why Otis made this trade is beyond me?

Tayshaun and Rip makes more sense.


----------



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Let's see: The Suns give up an overpriced failure(Hedo) and a bloated 3pt specialist with a bad knee(JRich). 

And in return they get a servicable big man(Gortat) which are extremely hard to find, A younger more athletic swing man(Pietrus), An expiring deal who can give you something now(VC), A first round pick, and $3 million ! 

All they gave up was old and over priced. All they got back was younger, cheaper and expiring. Great job Suns ! 

I couldn't care less about the other teams. shuffling old brokendown has beens...


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> But the Magic dont have Lewis anymore. They've also traded away one of their best 3pt scorers in Pietrus and who is their backup center now? Why Otis made this trade is beyond me?
> 
> Tayshaun and Rip makes more sense.


I never said or believed that Hedo needs Lewis. Lewis is nothing. Good riddance Lue.

Hedo + Howard, high screen and roll. They're set for the next three years. Focus on getting better in other aspects.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

You are the only one who probably thinks Hedo is going to do well in Orlando. Guy stunk up the joint the last two years.....P.s. it was the Hedo, Dwight, Lewis dynamic that made that team so dangerous. Dont know why you are trying to make it sound like he is expendable in that equation. Lewis had his fair share of dramatic shots that year they went to the finals.


----------



## Maravilla (Jul 6, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Wow.. Its been a while since the suns made a good move.. I dunno how to react.

this team has no quick fixes so getting something for richardson is smart. VC is expiring right? Excellent. Clark has shown nothing.. So he is an acceptable casualty though he could be solid.
Gortat will start lol.. Yes that's as bad as our line is. Going to snatch him up in fantasy right now.

Dumping Hedo? Hell yeah. Sucks for you orlando... But richardson is head and shoulders above carter at this point.


I like pietrus' game, so that's a bonus for me. Even though as a player he is only solid.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



chilltown said:


> Wow.. Its been a while since the suns made a good move.. I dunno how to react.
> 
> this team has no quick fixes so getting something for richardson is smart. VC is expiring right? Excellent. Clark has shown nothing.. So he is an acceptable casualty though he could be solid.
> Gortat will start lol.. Yes that's as bad as our line is. Going to snatch him up in fantasy right now.
> ...



Will you guys stop saying this. VC's shots were down in Orlando because of the guys he is playing with. Jrich has a better 3pt percentage and scores more (go figure since he was playing on the Suns), but besides that their numbers are comparable.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> You are the only one who probably thinks Hedo is going to do well in Orlando. Guy stunk up the joint the last two years.....P.s. it was the Hedo, Dwight, Lewis dynamic that made that team so dangerous. Dont know why you are trying to make it sound like he is expendable in that equation. Lewis had his fair share of dramatic shots that year they went to the finals.


He stunk up the joint but now he is going to play with Dwight Howard.

He didn't have a position in Toronto because Bosh and Bargnani don't play defense. All three of them are small forwards.

In Phoenix they played him at power forward.

Rashard Lewis is awful. I'm not going to argue with you over that issue.



chilltown said:


> Wow.. Its been a while since the suns made a good move.. I dunno how to react.
> 
> this team has no quick fixes so getting something for richardson is smart. VC is expiring right? Excellent. Clark has shown nothing.. So he is an acceptable casualty though he could be solid.
> Gortat will start lol.. Yes that's as bad as our line is. Going to snatch him up in fantasy right now.
> ...


I like the trade for both teams. They both get two starters in exchange for players they don't need. I love the trade for Orlando. They get size and competitiveness.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Lewis has played better than HEdo the last two years, that we know. Has it occured to you that Hedo might just not be that good anymore. Dwight isn't going to change that.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

You guys are wrong about Hedo. At least with him on the team, they finally have a good passer on the roster (and no Duhon doesn't count because he sucks).


----------



## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

At first, I was very apprehensive about this move, but the more I look at it, the more that I like it -- provided that Hedo can regain his former glory days with the Magic. I will like it even more if they can swing Rashard for Arenas. 

I like the athleticism Jrich brings to the Magic's starting lineup. I'm hoping he can keep up with the likes of Ray Allen and Wade. 

Hedo Turkoglu was actually a pretty good defender when he was in a Magic Uniform -- see the 1 3rd place vote on the NBA's all defensive team in 2008.

Bass has emerged as a legitimate 4 to pair alongside Howard. Ryan Anderson is great to have come off the bench when you want to move into 'stretch 4 territory'. 

Rashard simply cannot matchup with KG and Bosh in the playoffs, nor can he guard Pierce or LeBron. Hedo can guard 3's better and Bass can guard 4s. 

I would like to see Gilbert come off the bench for us. I think he could be a great X-factor. Undoubtedly, it would cramp the style of JJ Redick, who is really one of the only Magic players playing well.


Are there any more 12 mpg C's -- Erick Dampiers -- out in the market?

I'm glad to see the Magic have gone all-in with Dwight. I'm certain he went to Otis and said 'trade Gortat. if we have to rely on our backup center for any extended period of time, we're not going to win a championship anyway'


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> Lewis has played better than HEdo the last two years, that we know. Has it occured to you that Hedo might just not be that good anymore. Dwight isn't going to change that.


Hedo is not a better basketball player than Vince Carter but he is a competitor and a brave scrapper. He's not going to be frightened and piss his pants in big games. He's going there to be a role player and support Howard which he has always done. The Magic are getting back what they lost when they exchanged him with VC. They're trading away a loser for a winner and he fits their chemistry and culture.


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

so who starts for Orlando? who is coming off the bench? I hope SVG starts Arenas, Richardson, Hedo, Bass and Howard, not Nelson, Arenas, Richardson, Hedo, Howard!!!


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Adam said:


> Hedo is not a better basketball player than Vince Carter but he is a competitor and a brave scrapper. He's not going to be frightened and piss his pants in big games. He's going there to be a role player and support Howard which he has always done. The Magic are getting back what they lost when they exchanged him with VC. They're trading away a loser for a winner and he fits their chemistry and culture.


O please, the Hedo that disappeared in Toronto or the one that put up 9ppg with Phoenix? Yeah so much of a competitor. In a weird sense I am glad this trade went down, because all the folks who kept pining for Hedo finally get to see him back on the Magic. Now the onus is on them to get back to the finals, no VC to blame it on this time around.


----------



## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Can they flip Jameer for something now, I mean what is the point of keeping his ass around?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Babir said:


> so who starts for Orlando? who is coming off the bench? I hope SVG starts Arenas, Richardson, Hedo, Bass and Howard, not Nelson, Arenas, Richardson, Hedo, Howard!!!


I think Arenas is coming off the bench. Its Nelson, Richardson, Hedo, Bass, Howard


----------



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Adam said:


> In Phoenix they played him at power forward.


What's funny is , it was Hedo playing power forward in Sacto that got him the big contract in Orlando in the first place as a free agent. He filled in for Webber and his numbers were similar during that stint. 

He can play big forward. He just won't. And that's the part I can't accept. A player should be willing to play whatever position necessary to win.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

If I were Orlando my lineup would be:

Nelson-JRich-Hedo-Bass-Howard

Arenas (6th man) - backing up PG/SG

Redick-QRich-Anderson-scrap heap center (probably Hilton Armstrong from Washington)


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> O please, the Hedo that disappeared in Toronto or the one that put up 9ppg with Phoenix? Yeah so much of a competitor. In a weird sense I am glad this trade went down, because all the folks who kept pining for Hedo finally get to see him back on the Magic. Now the onus is on them to get back to the finals, no VC to blame it on this time around.


Read what you just wrote. Hedo got them to the Finals and VC didn't yet Hedo is overrated? You're ridiculous.

Pretty sure I pointed out why it failed in Toronto and Phoenix (only 20 games) but ignore that conveniently.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Same formula, different ingredients. We'll see how the results work out.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> O please, the Hedo that disappeared in Toronto or the one that put up 9ppg with Phoenix? Yeah so much of a competitor. In a weird sense I am glad this trade went down, because all the folks who kept pining for Hedo finally get to see him back on the Magic. Now the onus is on them to get back to the finals, no VC to blame it on this time around.


Nope, Otis finally realized he messed up getting rid of Hedo. Orlando went to the Finals and got rid of three starters/rotational players in Hedo, Lee and Alston and they backslided every since. 

This at least gives them a shot to get back, provided Hedo can return to playoff form. If you remember the 2008 playoffs, Hedo destroyed Cleveland while Lebron decided to guard Alston to rest on defense. I haven't forgotten that.


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Report: Wizards in serious discussions to trade Gilbert Arenas to Orlando*



Adam said:


> Yup. But Rashard Lewis isn't the right contract. He only has one less year than Arenas and his contract runs through 2013 when they absolutely have to have capspace in 2012.
> 
> Leonsis is getting some bad advice (typical Grunfeld) if he makes this move. There will always be teams like Orlando that will want to acquire Arenas to put themselves over the top. Rashard on the other hand is immovable. If you trade down to get him nobody else is going to trade a sooner expiring contract for that guy.
> 
> It will be like everyone in the NBA is playing old maid face up and Washington is holding the old maid. Nobody is going to take that card from them.


You're in fantasy land. No other team has been mentioned with Arenas all summer aside from Orlando... And most Orlando fans dont/didn't even want him. There is no other team out there. No contender chomping at the bit to add the injury prone knucklehead nor his salary. 

Only way that would be likely to happen in the future, is if 1) he was showcased as a featured guy for a cpl years and 2) proved he could be a rehibilitated man(on & off), which it isn't likely they'd want to be that patient with Wall on board now.. Him and Wall need the same role. Magic are just desperate to impress Howard.

Gil might be remotely coveted with 2 yrs or less left on his deal(assuming he doesn't **** up again), but given that he would be 31 and owed $43mil, why wait and hamper Walls growth for 2 yrs and take the risk? They get a decent player who fits the team better now, and comes off books sooner. Do we think they can do better than Lewis, lol??


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



> I think Arenas is coming off the bench. Its Nelson, Richardson, Hedo, Bass, Howard


even that is fine. Hope there is no starting backcourt of Nelson-Arenas...


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



LA68 said:


> What's funny is , it was Hedo playing power forward in Sacto that got him the big contract in Orlando in the first place as a free agent. He filled in for Webber and his numbers were similar during that stint.
> 
> He can play big forward. He just won't. And that's the part I can't accept. A player should be willing to play whatever position necessary to win.


Huh? That's not even close to being right. He went to Orlando from San Antonio and not on a big contract and in Sacramento he was Peja's backup at SF. He never played power forward in Sacto. They had Funderburk, Wahad, Big Nasty, Clark, etc. but Hedo never really played PF for them.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



LA68 said:


> What's funny is , it was Hedo playing power forward in Sacto that got him the big contract in Orlando in the first place as a free agent. He filled in for Webber and his numbers were similar during that stint.
> 
> He can play big forward. He just won't. And that's the part I can't accept. A player should be willing to play whatever position necessary to win.


A few things

-Hedo played in San Antonio before he came to the Magic

-The Magic picked him up on the MLE to be a 6th man -- playing SF

-He was only a rotation player until SVG came along and said 'Hedo, we're gonna run the offense through you'

-The Magic are not going to play him at PF except in spot situations. Even at that point, he won't play the PF position. He'll still run high S/R with Dwight like he did. This was the bread and butter of the Magic's offense two years ago. They assumed it would be the same with Vince, but it wasn't.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Adam said:


> Read what you just wrote. Hedo got them to the Finals and VC didn't yet Hedo is overrated? You're ridiculous.
> 
> Pretty sure I pointed out why it failed in Toronto and Phoenix (only 20 games) but ignore that conveniently.


Because its a BS reason. Dude is getting paid millions to put the ball in the Net. What the heck is having one system he can only function in? If a 3pt specialist can't put up decent numbers in Phoenix of all places, there's something seriously wrong with him.

And stop making up stuff, Hedo didnt lead them to the finals, he wasn't anymore important than Alston, Lewis or Dwight.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> Because its a BS reason. Dude is getting paid millions to put the ball in the Net. What the heck is having one system he can only function in? If a 3pt specialist can't put up decent numbers in Phoenix of all places, there's something seriously wrong with him.
> 
> And stop making up stuff, Hedo didnt lead them to the finals, he wasn't anymore important than Alston, Lewis or Dwight.


So why are they going out of their way to trade for him if they don't think he can improve their team over Vince? Just for the hell of it? Toss a couple milli and some draft picks for the thrill?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Since when has Hedo been a three point specialist. They tried to do that to him in San Antonio and clearly it didn't work. Hedo is a playmaker. Didn't work in Toronto because Calderon dominates the ball and Chris Bosh was an iso-specialist and it wasn't going to work in Phoenix because Nash dominates the ball. In Orlando, it works because Orlando has no one who can actually facilitate for anyone but themselves.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> Because its a BS reason. Dude is getting paid millions to put the ball in the Net. What the heck is having one system he can only function in? If a 3pt specialist can't put up decent numbers in Phoenix of all places, there's something seriously wrong with him.
> 
> And stop making up stuff, Hedo didnt lead them to the finals, he wasn't anymore important than Alston, Lewis or Dwight.


1) Hedo is not a three point specialist. He was of a Point Forward than anything. He needs to have the ball in his hands to be successful. I can't speak to him now, as he's clearly not played to expectations the past two years. 

2)A lot of people said Hedo was the linchpin to the Magic's run in 2008. Tim Legler was probably the most vocal about it. I am not one of those people, but I do believe he plays better in SVG's system than the two others. He's not a plug and play kind of guy.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Well, for Orlando this better work !

There have been rumors that Howard might be next year's Melo. Last year of a contract and not on a "superteam" Or at least a team that can win it all. He may think of going out on the market and getting all that publicity and attention. 

There's only about 30 teams that could use him....


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

So what happens to Jameer Nelson and is Arenas supposed to differ to Hedo?


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Adam said:


> Read what you just wrote. Hedo got them to the Finals and VC didn't yet Hedo is overrated? You're ridiculous.
> 
> Pretty sure I pointed out why it failed in Toronto and Phoenix (only 20 games) but ignore that conveniently.


Pretty ridiculous. Hedo did not get them to the Finals. Howard got them to the Finals. The Magic were a better team last year with Carter than they were the year before with Turkoglu. Unfortunately the Celtics were also a lot better last year. Just because they didn't make it back to the Finals does not mean they weren't a better team.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Duck34234 said:


> 1) Hedo is not a three point specialist. He was of a Point Forward than anything. He needs to have the ball in his hands to be successful. I can't speak to him now, as he's clearly not played to expectations the past two years.
> 
> 2)A lot of people said Hedo was the linchpin to the Magic's run in 2008. Tim Legler was probably the most vocal about it. I am not one of those people, but I do believe he plays better in SVG's system than the two others. He's not a plug and play kind of guy.


Hasn't even been two years. One year and around 20 games. He wasn't even that bad in Toronto it was just a programmatic nonfit as Brad Childress would say.

Liken it to how Richard Jefferson didn't fit last year in San Antonio and now he knows the system and they're rolling.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

The Magic weren't a better team with VC replacing Hedo. One of Orlando's biggest weakness is they lack a playmaker, they thought they were getting that with VC, along with scoring from the wing to match guys like Bron and Pierce. But they were wrong and have really taking a step back the past couple of years.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

People act like Carter played well in Orlando and he didn't. The funny thing is, even Rashard Lewis said they missed Hedo's ability to get them the ball in the right places.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Babir said:


> so who starts for Orlando? who is coming off the bench? I hope SVG starts Arenas, Richardson, Hedo, Bass and Howard, not Nelson, Arenas, Richardson, Hedo, Howard!!!


Amen brother. I like Jameer coming coming off the bench.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Game3525 said:


> The Magic weren't a better team with VC replacing Hedo. One of Orlando's biggest weakness is they lack a playmaker, they thought they were getting that with VC, along with scoring from the wing to match guys like Bron and Pierce. But they were wrong and have r*eally taking a step back the past couple of years.*


I agree with the playmaker in VC. They sought him because they thought he could replicate Turk's talents while providing an added scoring punch.

I dont know if winning 59 games could be called 'taking a step back.' Certainly, losing 5 of 6 is for this club, but after the finger pointing in the aftermath of the Utah and Trailblazer loses, trust between some players has been strained. It was time to make a move, and I'm glad Otis recognized that. My only hope is that Jason Richardson can play some defense.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

The biggest reason the Magic made it to the Finals in 2009 as oppossed to 2010 was because KG was injured in 09 and played alright in 2010. The Celtics were without KG (and Leon Powe) took the Magic to 7 games in 2009.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



f22egl said:


> The biggest reason the Magic made it to the Finals in 2009 as oppossed to 2010 was because KG was injured in 09 and played alright in 2010. The Celtics were without KG (and Leon Powe) took the Magic to 7 games in 2009.


Pretty sure it was because of Hedo lol


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



f22egl said:


> The biggest reason the Magic made it to the Finals in 2009 as oppossed to 2010 was because KG was injured in 09 and played alright in 2010. The Celtics were without KG (and Leon Powe) took the Magic to 7 games in 2009.


That's why Otis is dumping VC to go back to Hedo, because the team played better last year. I guess you weren't watching when VC cowered to the free throw line and looked around like a kid who has lost his mom's hand at the carnival. KG's knee made him miss those free throws.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Adam said:


> Hasn't even been two years. One year and around 20 games. He wasn't even that bad in Toronto it was just a programmatic nonfit as Brad Childress would say.


The problem with the overselling of Hedo Turkoglu is that Orlando is the only place in his NBA career where he was more than a marginal role player. A very likely explanation is that Turkoglu's effectiveness in Orlando was a function of the system than how good of a player he is. 

Throw in the fact that he will be 32 soon, and it's possible that player who will do his second tour of duty in Orlando will be worse than the first time around. Like Antoine Walker and Randy Moss found out, you always can't go back home and think everything will be the same.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

magic got better with this trade, both in terms of salary situation and talent. rashard lewis is way overpaid and arenas is the much much better player. i'm not sure why wizards got rid of arenas just for the sake of getting rid of him. it's not like john wall has been healthy and a proven product either(not yet). arenas can be a complimentary player along john wall and wall's 9apg indicate that he's been able to coexist with arenas. if they want to get rid of arenas for a bad contract they can do it any time.

richardson and hedo are much much better players than vince carter and gortat at this point. magic get their playmaker back and richardson is a more potent offensive threat than carter.

these are great trades for magic. slight improve for the suns if they decide to utilize gortat over lopez. horrible horrible trade for the wizards.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Najee said:


> The problem with the overselling of Hedo Turkoglu is that Orlando is the only place in his NBA career where he was more than a marginal role player. A very likely explanation is that Turkoglu's effectiveness in Orlando was a function of the system than how good of a player he is.
> 
> Throw in the fact that he will be 32 soon, and it's possible that player who will do his second tour of duty in Orlando will be worse than the first time around.* Like Antoine Walker and Randy Moss found out, you always can't go back home and think everything will be the same*.


Perhaps the most insightful comment in this thread.

I think the biggest part of this dealio is if Jrich can play some defense. If he does, then we'll do well.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



> The problem with the overselling of Hedo Turkoglu is that Orlando is the only place in his NBA career where he was more than a marginal role player. A very likely explanation is that Turkoglu's effectiveness in Orlando was a function of the system than how good of a player he is.
> 
> Throw in the fact that he will be 32 soon, and it's possible that player who will do his second tour of duty in Orlando will be worse than the first time around. Like Antoine Walker and Randy Moss found out, you always can't go back home and think everything will be the same.


Seriously guy is turning Hedo into something he is not. I just don't see how this puts them above the Celts or the Heat for that matter. Paul or Melo sure, but not the guys they just got. The Celts went and bolstered their frontcourt, the Magic pretty much got weaker.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

I think I'd go ahead and see if Arenas is ready to be your starter. He's certainly not an ideal point guard, but Nelson has just been rancid lately.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

P.s. is a Nash trade in the works?


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Najee said:


> A very likely explanation is that Turkoglu's effectiveness in Orlando was a function of the system than how good of a player he is.


It's a lot more than likely. I'd say probably with 99% confidence that his skills work in Orlando because of their system.

It doesn't matter if he's a bad player in Phoenix because he is going to be playing for the Orlando Magic not the Phoenix Suns.



HB said:


> Seriously guy is turning Hedo into something he is not. I just don't see how this puts them above the Celts or the Heat for that matter. Paul or Melo sure, but not the guys they just got. The Celts went and bolstered their frontcourt, the Magic pretty much got weaker.


Enjoy the desert. Pack a sweater. I was just in Flagstaff last month and it was snowing.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

I don't know, I actually like the trade for Orlando. I don't think it makes them so much better, but I do think it makes them better. We'll see what happens.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

The Magic may not be better, but they for damn sure didn't get worse. Look, the fact is Vince Carter is not a winner and getting rid of him had to be done. The guy shows up in games that "don't matter."


----------



## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Orlando waving the white flag so early in the season? These are two terrible trades.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

But how can you guys say they may not be better when the purpose of these trades is to in fact convince Dwight they are. This guy might bounce if this doesn't work out.


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

I hope Orlando can get one "big" from Washington as well...


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Who backs up Dwight?


----------



## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Otis takes a page out of Joe Dumar's book.

Whether this is trading for Rasheed Wallace... or signing Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon, we shall see.


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



Adam said:


> It's a lot more than likely. I'd say probably with 99% confidence that his skills work in Orlando because of their system.
> 
> It doesn't matter if he's a bad player in Phoenix because he is going to be playing for the Orlando Magic not the Phoenix Suns.


The problem is that Hedo Turkoglu was a basically a role player in Sacramento, San Antonio and Toronto, as well. For that matter, he was little more than that in Orlando until Stan Van Gundy became the coach and ran the offense through him.

Also, keep in mind that in the SVG years Turkoglu was able to do that on a team that had what I would call more deferential offensive personalities (Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis and Jameer Nelson). If Gilbert Arenas joins this team, I cannot see Arenas deferring to a player who, quite frankly, is not as good as him. I certainly don't see Jason Richardson deferring to Turkoglu, considering Richardson was the better player of the two while in Phoenix.


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Armstrong or Seraphin, I hope one of these guys included


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Done deal.



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> Orlando and Washington have completed Gilbert Arenas for Rashard Lewis trade, a league source says. Teams will announce within half hour.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The city of Washington and Ted Leonsis deserve better than Ernie Grunfeld. The entire league is playing old maid with their cards face up and this clown picks the old maid.


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-orlando-magic-trade-20101218,0,7827630.story


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

So, who plays center if Howard gets in foul trouble? Smh.../dumbNBAGM


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

what about Earl Clark any potential?


----------



## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> P.s. is a Nash trade in the works?




only thing i care about in terms of this deal


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Babir said:


> what about Earl Clark any potential?


He plays good D, but he has been a major disappointment

*Ghost*


> only thing i care about in terms of this deal





> Agent Bill Duffy tells Y! Sports Suns owner Robert Sarver has assured him that "nothing is going on" trade wise with Suns star @SteveNash.


 - Marc Spears


----------



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

To me the main piece is Gortat. Howard can bump knees tonight and the Magic season is over. You don't give up quality big men so easily. Teams like Chicago, Portland, Houston etc.. can atest to that. 

In case you all have forgotten, this isn't 2005. JRich is not the dunk champion. Hedo is not sixth man of the year. And the gunslinger has no spring in that bad leg. And none can defend a lick or run anymore. 

People also forget. Most of 2009, Nelson was hurt so Hedo could run the offense. Now you have Nelson and Arenas....and you expect Hedo to control the ball ? LOL He's lucky if he sees it once a quarter !


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



LA68 said:


> To me the main piece is Gortat. Howard can bump knees tonight and the Magic season is over. You don't give up quality big men so easily. Teams like Chicago, Portland, Houston etc.. can atest to that.
> 
> In case you all have forgotten, this isn't 2005. JRich is not the dunk champion. Hedo is not sixth man of the year. And the gunslinger has no spring in that bad leg. And none can defend a lick or run anymore.
> 
> *People also forget. Most of 2009, Nelson was hurt so Hedo could run the offense. Now you have Nelson and Arenas....and you expect Hedo to control the ball ? LOL He's lucky if he sees it once a quarter *!


ZING!!!


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> He plays good D, but he has been a major disappointment
> 
> *Ghost*
> 
> - Marc Spears


Yeah, Nash is only going somewhere if he asks for it.


And the only logical place is NY.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



LA68 said:


> To me the main piece is Gortat. Howard can bump knees tonight and the Magic season is over. You don't give up quality big men so easily. Teams like Chicago, Portland, Houston etc.. can atest to that.
> 
> In case you all have forgotten, this isn't 2005. JRich is not the dunk champion. Hedo is not sixth man of the year. And the gunslinger has no spring in that bad leg. And none can defend a lick or run anymore.
> 
> People also forget. Most of 2009, Nelson was hurt so Hedo could run the offense. Now you have Nelson and Arenas....and you expect Hedo to control the ball ? LOL He's lucky if he sees it once a quarter !


Again you show that you don't know your history. Hedo played better in 2008 with Nelson when he should have been picked as an alternate for the all-star game but Stern screwed him. He had a poor regular season in 2009 (which Blu loves to bring up) but he was the linchpin in their run to the Finals (which Blu loves to ignore).


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> Again you show that you don't know your history. Hedo played better in 2008 with Nelson when he should have been picked as an alternate for the all-star game but Stern screwed him. He had a poor regular season in 2009 (which Blu loves to bring up) but he was the linchpin in their run to the Finals (which Blu loves to ignore).


Hedo wasn't that hot in the first two series, how the heck does that make him a linchpin? You seem to love to ignore that.


----------



## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The Magic definitely got better here. Arenas is a better player than Vince, JRich is a better player than Pietrus, and Hedo is a better player than Shard. Losing Gortat hurts their depth but they aren't losing an all star or anything. If Howard goes down, their season is done regardless of who they put at center anyways.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Hedo wasn't that hot in the first two series, how the heck does that make him a linchpin? You seem to love to ignore that.


Didn't he hit a game winner in the Philly series? He might not have filled up the boxscore the way a Vince Carter fan would approve of but he was still the linchpin.


----------



## TrailofDead (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I can't believe there are actually people on this thread defending Rashard Lewis. He is the SECOND highest paid player in the game this year behind Kobe. And he's averaging 12 points and 4 rebounds! What a joke.


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



> In case you all have forgotten, this isn't 2005. JRich is not the dunk champion. Hedo is not sixth man of the year. And the gunslinger has no spring in that bad leg. And none can defend a lick or run anymore.
> 
> People also forget. Most of 2009, Nelson was hurt so Hedo could run the offense. Now you have Nelson and Arenas....and you expect Hedo to control the ball ? LOL He's lucky if he sees it once a quarter !


what about Carter and Lewis then?  is there anything people have forgotten about them too?


----------



## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dissonance said:


> Yeah, Nash is only going somewhere if he asks for it.
> 
> 
> And the only logical place is NY.


If they traded for him they couldn't trade for/sign Carmelo

i guesss their keeping him to sell tickets


----------



## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*

Maybe they trust Daniel Orton more than we think..


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

They need a big man, forget Orton.


----------



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Babir said:


> what about Carter and Lewis then?  is there anything people have forgotten about them too?


VC is an expiring deal therefore his contract is his value. Certainly not his talent. 

Lewis hasn't done much of anything but, that deal is washed up for washed up so its a "wash" LOL


----------



## Maravilla (Jul 6, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Suns won't deal their cash cow. They should really... But they won't.

If its NY, which I doubt, Anthony Randolph would be involved I'm sure... Even though I'm about to give up on him like a lot of other people (although he does play for D'antoni, and he hates rookies of course)

Earl Clark has the tools to be a lamar odom with better D.. No meanstreak, quality #3 option.. Has all the skillset he needs.. He just hasn't done anything yet.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

WTF is Orlando doing?

Rashard for Arenas? Terrible deal.

How does Arenas fit in next to Nelson and Richardson? Are you going to deal Nelson now? Is Gilbert coming off the bench? Surely, you can't be paying him all that money to be a 6th man.

I like the deal a lot for the Wizards.


----------



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> Again you show that you don't know your history. Hedo played better in 2008 with Nelson when he should have been picked as an alternate for the all-star game but Stern screwed him. He had a poor regular season in 2009 (which Blu loves to bring up) but he was the linchpin in their run to the Finals (which Blu loves to ignore).


2009 They made the finals. That's the best season a team can have. This is a team sport remember. You can't replay a season two years ago and make it fit to today. 

And you are adding a player who's best season was 45 wins and expecting him to limp around and take you somewhere. Good luck with that. Orl is stuck in neutral.


----------



## Maravilla (Jul 6, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Hmm although the suns do add yet another wing role player who is athletic, a strong defender, and can shoot the ball well. (Pietrus not carter, mind you)

Nahh we didn't have enough of those on the roster lol.


Seriously, the late 1st and Gortat had to be the keys to the trade though for the Suns.. So sad when he is going to step in and start. Shmee.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



LA68 said:


> 2009 They made the finals. That's the best season a team can have. This is a team sport remember. You can't replay a season two years ago and make it fit to today.
> 
> And you are adding a player who's best season was 45 wins and expecting him to limp around and take you somewhere. Good luck with that. Orl is stuck in neutral.


You said that he individually played better without Nelson than with him. That's untrue because with Nelson the year earlier he was even better. Don't talk about individual success and then switch to team success.

Anyway, I can see Vince getting moved once more before the deadline and then getting bought out. Maybe he returns to Orlando?


----------



## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Damian Necronamous said:


> WTF is Orlando doing?
> 
> Rashard for Arenas? Terrible deal.
> 
> ...


Have you seen Rashard Lewis play at all this year?


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Magic should trade Nelson now...


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



> Some guy just posted this on realgm: Ric Bucher just said on ESPN that some players "became tired of Stan"
> 
> Said some of those players are playing elsewhere right now (obviously talking about those players traded). He said they just became tired of hearing his voice...wow


Welp


----------



## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnsnVS7Epb8

he actually reminds me young Rashard Lewis


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I don't think there's a real issue with Arenas fiting with Nelson. Nelson has played so horribly of late that it's almost certain that SVG will give Arenas the oppurtunity to show that he can be their starting PG. If they could get anything for him Nelson would probably be leaving town.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



chilltown said:


> Earl Clark has the tools to be a lamar odom with better D.. No meanstreak, quality #3 option.. Has all the skillset he needs.. He just hasn't done anything yet.


that's just so many ways wrong I dont even know where to begin


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> Anyway, I can see Vince getting moved once more before the deadline and then getting bought out. Maybe he returns to Orlando?


Miami got an injury exception for Haslem and hasn't filled it yet, no? I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up in the roster spot Stackhouse was occupying before he got cut for Damp. Vince could also have Harangody's roster spot and compete with Daniels for backup swingman minutes in Boston if he wants, I see no way Luke ever gets time in a playoff series.


----------



## Maravilla (Jul 6, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> that's just so many ways wrong I dont even know where to begin


well if its wrong help me out so I can compare it better.

That is just going off of what I've read about Clark.


Odom has a meanstreak? Always heard he was a player who wasn't a good enough 2nd fiddle to Kobe prior to getting Gasol. He is a tremendous talent in a lot of areas... but yeah whats your take on it?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Vince to miama...haha now thats interesting.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



chilltown said:


> well if its wrong help me out so I can compare it better.
> 
> That is just going off of what I've read about Clark.
> 
> ...


Clark's a raw 6'10" athlete who hasn't shown the inclination to actually develop a set of basketball skills. For all the gripes there are about Odom, he's a skilled player. Talented athletes coming out of college are a dime a dozen, but you just can't make a player want to be good if the desire isn't there. There's a reason that Phoenix didn't pick up his rookie option next year, he'll sit the end of the bench this season and wind up unaffiliated in the D-league next year.


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

*New Magic:

PF- Bass, Anderson, Clark

SF- Hedo, J-Rich, Q-Rich

C- Howard, Allen, Orton

SG- Arenas, Redick

PG- Nelson, Duhon, Williams*

New Suns:

PF- Frye, Warrick, Barron, Lawal

SF- Hill, Pietrus, Dudley 

C- Gortat, Lopez, Siler

SG- Carter, Childress

PG- Nash, Dragic

Suns also gets ORL 1st rounder in the 2011 draft (unprotected) and 3 million cash.

*New Wizards:

PF- Blatche, Booker, Seraphin

SF- Lewis, Gee, Thornton, Martin

C- McGee, Armstrong, Ndiaye

SG- Young, Howard

PG- Wall, Hinrich*


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Grade from Ballscientist:

Suns get B+

Magic get B

Wizards get B

Note: none of them get A because noboby exchanges orange for iphone or ipod.

Example: Knicks deal Eddy Curry for Melo = Knicks exchange orange for iphone.


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; Lewis for Arenas c*



HB said:


> But how can you guys say they may not be better when the purpose of these trades is to in fact convince Dwight they are. This guy might bounce if this doesn't work out.


You've got to admit, though: It's a better effort than what Cleveland gave trying to surround players around LeBron James.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Ballscientist said:


> Grade from Ballscientist:
> 
> Suns get B+
> 
> ...


This post may just be the greatest in the history of this site.


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



E.H. Munro said:


> This post may just be the greatest in the history of this site.


+1


----------



## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



E.H. Munro said:


> This post may just be the greatest in the history of this site.


nope its not.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

It's hard to rate this trade for Orlando because I thought they could've gotten more out of Vince/Gortat than J Rich and Hedo Turkoglu(who has played downright horrible this year). This new core better work out for Orlando because if either Arenas gets injured again or Hedo fails to return to his old self theres no way Dwight will re-sign in 2 years knowing that Orlando are stuck with Hedo/Arenas for 2 more years. I don't think they're going to keep J Rich beyond this year in order to cut salaries. They'll either go with Nelson/Arenas or Arenas/Redick as their backcourt after this season. Losing Gortat also might be a problem in the playoffs if Dwight gets into foul trouble. But perhaps young guys like Orton and Clark can step in and show us why they're first round picks.

I really like the trade for Phoenix and Washington. Washington clears way for Wall and shreds over 20 mil worth of salary and headcase for the next 3 years. Lewis might be a fringe star on a terrible team but one thing is for certain is that he has a role player mindset and will shut up and play. For Phoenix this trade is pretty much them admitting that the Nash ride is over. They won't make the playoffs this year and this is the start of rebuilding for the Suns.


----------



## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Orlando didn't make that bad of a deal. They had to do something though. It was clear that Vince core wasn't going to work, and now they had to retool while they are still in contention. A deal was done not because they just wanted to, but because they had to do something to stay competitive. Might as well take a chance on something that might work instead of something that is proven it doesn't.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Nash would be doing the Suns a favor if he asked for a trade. Thing is that Sarver has to service the debt he took on buying the team and that's what he's going to do.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> It's hard to rate this trade for Orlando because I thought they could've gotten more out of Vince/Gortat than J Rich and Hedo Turkoglu(who has played downright horrible this year). This new core better work out for Orlando because if either Arenas gets injured again or Hedo fails to return to his old self theres no way Dwight will re-sign in 2 years knowing that Orlando are stuck with Hedo/Arenas for 2 more years. I don't think they're going to keep J Rich beyond this year in order to cut salaries. They'll either go with Nelson/Arenas or Arenas/Redick as their backcourt after this season. Losing Gortat also might be a problem in the playoffs if Dwight gets into foul trouble. But perhaps young guys like Orton and Clark can step in and show us why they're first round picks.
> 
> I really like the trade for Phoenix and Washington. Washington clears way for Wall and shreds over 20 mil worth of salary and headcase for the next 3 years. Lewis might be a fringe star on a terrible team but one thing is for certain is that he has a role player mindset and will shut up and play. For Phoenix this trade is pretty much them admitting that the Nash ride is over. They won't make the playoffs this year and this is the start of rebuilding for the Suns.


OR they are hoping that Vince Carter will enjoy playing again when he has beautiful lob passes begging for a 360 windmill being thrown to him nightly. On top of that, Hedo was a negative impact on the team. He made us worse when he was in the game. Benching him was not an option since he got paid so much and Clark has been a huge disappointment that every Suns fan is hoping doesn't come back to bite us because he is one of the most athletic players in the NBA. On the Suns, Gortat will have plenty of rebounds to grab. So this works out well for the Suns.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

In what universe does Gortat not suck. Gortat is not a difference maker in this league.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

This is much ado about nothing. Neither team really moves anywhere up or down.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The Magic are funny. 

What's their new starting lineup going to be?


----------



## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The Magic getg bettter anyone who cant see that is crazy.

The Wizards made a terrible deal. Like seriously pathetic. 
Arenas couldve gone to so many different teams. 
The Mavs wouldve taken him even. For expirings. 

Lewis's contract is such a pathetic contract. Cant believe anyone would do this deal.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I could see Vince Carter ressurrecting his career in Phoenix. They have great trainers to help iron out his winces. And then Steve Nash will get him the ball in good spots. Getting a 1st Rounder and gortat for Hedo and Jrich though is good bidness.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Hyperion said:


> OR they are hoping that Vince Carter will enjoy playing again when he has beautiful lob passes begging for a 360 windmill being thrown to him nightly. On top of that, Hedo was a negative impact on the team. He made us worse when he was in the game. Benching him was not an option since he got paid so much and Clark has been a huge disappointment that every Suns fan is hoping doesn't come back to bite us because he is one of the most athletic players in the NBA. On the Suns, Gortat will have plenty of rebounds to grab. So this works out well for the Suns.


Vince isn't better than J Rich at this point and so whatever kind of result the Suns were getting expect the same or worse with Vince. Vince is superior in his passing ability but the benefit of that may be lost when playing next to guys like Nash and Hill. Gortat's numbers will be more or less the same. Between playing behind Robin Lopez and the frequency of the Suns going small, it's hard to see him getting a bigger role in Phoenix than in Orlando.

This trade is more about getting rid of Turkoglu than getting Vince in my opinion. Turkoglu has a bigger contract and will be a problem off the court (if not already) if he continues to get benched. As a Raptor fan we experienced the exact same thing last year when we chose to start Sonny Weems and have Turkoglu come off the bench. I don't think this trade will change much record wise for the Suns and it's a sign of them shredding salaries and acquiring younger players/picks for the future.


----------



## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The Suns - Magic deal comes out in favour of the Suns just slightly. BUT the Magic still get better with it. Gortat while good does not play many minutes. And if Dwight goes down nobody is saving the Magic. They now need a backup centre. But they are in no rush to get one. 

They get that second option they so desperately needed. And nobody else was providing.

PS Miller is avaiable from the Rockets for an expiring. If they have any?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



futuristxen said:


> I could see Vince Carter ressurrecting his career in Phoenix. They have great trainers to help iron out his winces. And then Steve Nash will get him the ball in good spots. G*etting a 1st Rounder and gortat for Hedo and Jrich though is good bidness*.



Unfortunately in this 2011 draft that might not be the case


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



hroz said:


> The Wizards made a terrible deal. Like seriously pathetic.
> Arenas couldve gone to so many different teams.
> The Mavs wouldve taken him even. For expirings.


Don't go talking **** you have no idea about. Arenas' market has been bonedry ever since the incident, I would've liked Carter, but the best we could do was just essentially give us one less year of being hijacked by a contract, and by that point Wall and McGee should be on the cusp of prime production.


----------



## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I'm just going to focus on the Magic end for now: they got better in the sense that they got rid of two guys that were bringing down the locker-room. Dwight's been calling out his teammates without naming specific guys for a while now.

However I expect growing pains for the Magic which will likely hurt their record at some point. This trade kind of reminds me of the huge Mavs/Wizards trade and the Cavs/...Wizards trade from last year. I think its too little, too late but it does improve the team's talent. 

Imo Jameer needs to be gone with Arenas and Hedo on board. Hedo's talents are only really realized if he has the ball in his hands which might be problematic with Arenas as well. I wonder if Hedo will have his 4th quarter closer role back.

Richardson is going to be a great fit but he's a finisher and not really a guy that can create his own points so he's going to need teams to double Dwight and to get good looks from whoever is handling the playmaking duties. He should be plenty hungry though since its an expiring year for him and he's got younger legs than VC - must also be nice to go to a team thats a top 4 playoffs seed from one that would barely make it.

Imo the Magic needed to make trades no matter what but in the near future I wouldn't be surprised if Dwight decides to go the route of LeBron instead of Dirk and sign with another team.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Far from nonsense. Howard's been calling out his team to the media.

EDIT: Hmm the post I was addressing seemed to have been deleted or I'm going crazy.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Arenas has been extremely docile this year, but I think he knew it was because he was basically an ugly scar that hadn't healed and he should blend in here...I wonder what kind of reinvigoration he'll have in Orlando, playing for a guy he knows stuck his neck out for him in Smith.

Of course he'll never approach his prime, his knees aren't there, but if Ron can end up a valuable championship level player Arenas still can because he does one thing better than 90% of the league, kookiness be damned.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

You also have to wonder how Stan Van Gundy will handle Arenas. SVG likes to open his mouth about his players just like Arenas and I can see a rift develop if they struggle.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



hroz said:


> The Magic getg bettter anyone who cant see that is crazy.
> 
> The Wizards made a terrible deal. Like seriously pathetic.
> 
> ...


Your argument would have merit if this was 2006 or 2007. But I don't see the validity in this argument, like Dre said.

You're talking about a guy who missed two seasons because of an injury and a third season for a lengthy suspension. Gilbert Arenas has been a team headache in Washington for quite some time; it was tolerable when he was a goofball while performing at an all-NBA level, but it clearly was a major problem when he wasn't.

Not to mention it was obvious that his run at Washington was going to end the second the Wizards picked essentially a younger Arenas in the draft. Throw in Arenas' contract, and there was going to be a limited amount of interest in Agent 9.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

True too. SVG might be closer to ESPN than we all think, but for now true.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> Arenas has been extremely docile this year, but I think he knew it was because he was basically an ugly scar that hadn't healed and he should blend in here...I wonder what kind of reinvigoration he'll have in Orlando, playing for a guy he knows stuck his neck out for him in Smith.


Gilbert Arenas knew his time was up in Washington the second the Wizards won the first pick in the draft. John Wall is essentially a younger version of Arenas with less baggage and a much smaller contract. 

Given all the goofball stuff he's done, the injury problems he had previous two season and that huge contract, Arenas knew the only way he had a shot at not landing in NBA purgatory was to play nice.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Playing nice is one thing, he could've still been the zany Gilbert that just wasn't pulling straps out, but starting with media day he seemed almost depressed. He's been more distant to the media than I can remember this year. He wasn't just being diplomatic, he seemed almost defeated this season.

So yes, he knew he was gone the second the Wiz found a good deal, but it seems like something bigger than that going on with him. Maybe this is his version of maturity, but more likely I don't think he likes basketball right now. Winning should get him back though, I presume.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Pump Bacon said:


> Far from nonsense. Howard's been calling out his team to the media.
> 
> EDIT: Hmm the post I was addressing seemed to have been deleted or I'm going crazy.


Howard doesn't like losing, the team is a pretty close knit or maybe I should say was now that most of them are gone. 

As for SVG, its on record that SVG and ownership were against the Arenas move.

There's no doubt that Otis' job is on the line though. When he says stuff like Arenas is the only other person he talks to besides his kid, you know this was somewhat of a personal move. If this does backfire, he is in trouble.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™;6437653 said:


> Playing nice is one thing, he could've still been the zany Gilbert that wasn't pulling straps out, but starting with media day he seemed almost depressed. He's been more distant to the media than I can remember.


Like I said, Gilbert Arenas knew his time was up in Washington. He was no longer going to be the face of the franchise, once the Wizards selected John Wall. 

The worst thing you can do to/the best way to punish a drama king like Arenas is take away his spotlight and sense of entitlement. If the Wizards ended up with someone like DeMarcus Cousins or Greg Monroe, he likely would have been his usual out-of-control self.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> Like I said, Gilbert Arenas knew his time was up in Washington. He was no longer going to be the face of the franchise, once the Wizards selected John Wall.
> 
> The worst thing you can do to/the best way to punish a drama king like Arenas is take away his spotlight and sense of entitlement. If the Wizards ended up with someone like DeMarcus Cousins or Greg Monroe, he likely would have been his usual out-of-control self.


Naw, Gilbert wasn't for the histrionics this season, you can tell that suspension changed him and soured his relationship with a game he had previously looked to as his salvation. I think it's a combination of confusion, pensiveness, embarrassment and betrayal with him.

I just find it hard to believe he could turn a dial from the Arenas I've seen and read about all season to the old guy just based on who the Wizards drafted. It's not true and you don't know what you're really talking about as well. It's easy to play the once crazy always crazy when you're watching from a distance.

He had accepted not being the face, and said as much at least 1-2 times a week, but he was a different guy, and it wasn't just him sucking in a laugh for 3 months.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™;6437700 said:


> I just find it hard to believe he could turn a dial from the Arenas I've seen and read about all season to the old guy just based on who the Wizards drafted. It's not true and you don't know what you're really talking about as well. It's easy to play the once crazy always crazy when you're watching from a distance.


The guy is no different than people like Ron Artest, Dennis Rodman and Terrell Owens. Like them, Gilbert Arenas went into the professional leagues with a chip on their shoulders, wanting to prove they were as good if not better than a lot of guys picked ahead of them. They not only did that, but exceeded expectations and became stars in their own rights.

The problem is, like Rodman, Artest and Owens, Arenas couldn't stop there and their egos ran out of control. Arenas' sense of entitlement became such a problem that he was becoming a headache. Then came the two years of injuries. Then came the idiotic guns in the locker room episode, and he got suspended for the bulk of a third season. 

Long as Arenas had the spotlight on him and had his sense of entitlement, he felt like he could do whatever he wanted. It's no coincidence you noticed this change in Arenas the same time he's been labeled a team cancer and Washington has the face of a new franchise in John Wall. 

Arenas' sense of carte blanche was taken from him. He was not only no longer the face of the franchise, in fact in a lot of respects he became irrelevant when Wall was picked. It's similar to how T.O. acted when he went to Buffalo after wearing out his welcome in three previous stops. The drama king no longer had an audience.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



chilltown said:


> well if its wrong help me out so I can compare it better.
> 
> That is just going off of what I've read about Clark.
> 
> ...


my take on it is he is a capable of pulling down 30% of his team's defensive rebounds while he is on the floor and turning up court and acting like a PG on the break and that he is a superior defender with a drtg of about 100

the meanstreak thing? he's inconsistent but you werent talking about consistency you were talking about skill sets 

is Clark a 6'10" guy who can board like a monster but has PG skills? and is he a better defender? Lamar is a superior position defender with multi-position flexibility


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The sad thing is that Arenas was never counted out/benched, all that stuff, because of his ability. It was always for his attitude. He has effectively left behind a legacy validating his early detractors who he thought he had bested. Tragic in all honesty.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HKF said:


> In what universe does Gortat not suck. Gortat is not a difference maker in this league.


there have been several occasions in the last couple years that Howard has missed games and Gortat has balled - he has some post game and he's a solid rebounder - any other team and he sees more floor time


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> The sad thing is that Arenas was never counted out/benched, all that stuff, because of his ability. It was always for his attitude. He has effectively left behind a legacy validating his early detractors who he thought he had bested. Tragic in all honesty.


Exactly. Basically no different from Terrell Owens, Dennis Rodman and Ron Artest in that respect. More or less, these guys became their own worst enemies with the diva-like behavior.

I have no idea what Dre is thinking. The Wizards organization seem to be relieved to get rid of Arenas:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?page=WizardstradeArenas-101218

Flip Saunders' quote says it all: "The critics who thought (Arenas) would hinder (John Wall's) development, that is not going to be brought up anymore. He won't ever have to defer to Gilbert and it will facilitate his learning process."


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



E.H. Munro said:


> This post may just be the greatest in the history of this site.


Yeah, that one put BS over the top. He will be getting the December lifetime premium member award. I will make it happen on Monday if he wants it.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Funny thing is all 3 teams save.

Magic save lx taxes


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Am I the only one that thinks the Magic should have kept Rashard Lewis? 

A big part of their success 2 years ago was the fact that Hedo and Rashard caused so many mismatches. I think the Magic made one deal too many. 

Gilbert is talented but I don't think it's that great of a fit imo.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Personally, I thought the major problem with Rashard Lewis was SVG's insistence on playing small ball and putting him at power forward. He was more effective offensively at the three spot, IMO. The contract also made him an obvious target for criticism.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



jayisthebest88 said:


> Am I the only one that thinks the Magic should have kept Rashard Lewis?
> 
> A big part of their success 2 years ago was the fact that Hedo and Rashard caused so many mismatches. I think the Magic made one deal too many.
> 
> Gilbert is talented but I don't think it's that great of a fit imo.


Orlando is taking a gamble with Arenas knowing that the team still wouldn't be good enough with Lewis/Hedo/J-Rich alone. With all his troubles Arenas has a lot more potential to be a game changer than Rashard Lewis. In my opinion they should've kept Vince especially when they had to give up Gortat to get J-Rich. They could've just trade Vince to Charlotte and try to get S-Jax or even Gerald Wallace.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Ron said:


> Yeah, that one put BS over the top. He will be getting the December lifetime premium member award. I will make it happen on Monday if he wants it.


I say we name it the "Trade an orange for iPhone Award" in his honour. :bsmile:


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



E.H. Munro said:


> I say we name it the "Trade an orange for iPhone Award" in his honour. :bsmile:


An orange is worth more than an iPhone...at least, with AT&T as a provider.

I can't wait to get rid of this ****ing contract. :|


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

So I guess this finally ends 2 ongoing debates?

1. Rashard Lewis's contract was a huge mistake by Orlando

2. Orlando should've re-signed Hedo, kept Courtney Lee than going after VC

These seems obvious to a lot of people but there are still a few that still don't see it. Hopefully now that even Orlando's GM is on our side people can stop spewing non sense about paying the 2nd highest salary to the black Matt Bullard being a good idea. The guy taking this fiasco the hardest has to be Courtney Lee. The guy was in a groove after that final run and could've turned into something special instead of being a journeyman on his way to Europe.


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## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Yeh, for a few years now, Rashard Lewis has had my vote as the most overpaid athlete in the solar system. The bigger the game, the smaller his impact.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

its mind blowing that he is making 20+million annually.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> So I guess this finally ends 2 ongoing debates?
> 
> 1. Rashard Lewis's contract was a huge mistake by Orlando
> 
> ...


Everyone outside Orlando knew that contract was a mistake the day it was speculated. 

Didn't Hedo leave on his own? Or did the Magic just play cheap with him because they made the black Matt Bullard the highest paid player in the league.

Courtney Lee is doing just fine in Houston, and is 4th in 3pt shooting % on the season.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> So I guess this finally ends 2 ongoing debates?
> 
> 1. Rashard Lewis's contract was a huge mistake by Orlando
> 
> ...


No. Letting Turkoglu go was the right decision. The Carter trade is a separate issue; they could have been more patient, although I agreed with the trade a the time, so I can criticize. Turkoglu was a mediocre starter when he peaked 3 years ago, and barely a decent rotation player now. The offers he was getting came from an amazingly weak free agent class and an absurd view of his abilities. 

Bring him (and Arenas) in is the real mistake. Neither one of them has half the ability needed to produce at their previously overrated levels.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Turkoglu was not a mediocre starter at his peak - he was the glue in a P&R scheme the Magic havent really gotten right since then - and with Nelson out most of the time he was also thier only consistent distributor acting in the role of 'point forward' - and people seem to forget that he was their closer making several key shots during their play-off runs in 08 and 09


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Seifer0406 said:


> So I guess this finally ends 2 ongoing debates?
> 
> 1. Rashard Lewis's contract was a huge mistake by Orlando
> 
> ...





Spaceman Spiff said:


> Everyone outside Orlando knew that contract was a mistake the day it was speculated.
> 
> Didn't Hedo leave on his own? Or did the Magic just play cheap with him because they made the black Matt Bullard the highest paid player in the league.
> 
> Courtney Lee is doing just fine in Houston, and is 4th in 3pt shooting % on the season.


Play cheap? Did y'all not see how much Hedo is getting paid?? The same ppl who take every oppurtunity to criticize every contract on the team, wouldve been the one's lining up to tell us how horrible the Hedo contract is right now(if _we_ gave it too him, of course). Any contract situation is lose-lose for the Magic, on this board. 

But let's not rember everyone who always bashed Hedo when he was in Orlando. 'He's not good enough'. He's not a closer'. 'He can't get to rim w/o p&r'. 'He cant take over a game'. 'Magic are pretenders with Hedo as closer'. Etc... I heard it all. The 2nd he leaves tho, 'omg, why did they let go of this Finals MVP'!

Lol, foh. It's bull-****. dude is a lazy player, w/ questionable shot selection, who occasionally showed up big @ the end of games by hitting ill advised, fade-away 3's or long jumpers. Now that he's paid, seems like he got even more lazy. He is a decent talent, and has a nice little skill-set, but ppl please stop acting like this kid was the fountain to success. 

And Seifer, I thought Rashard Lewis was a mistake because he was untradeable? Not because he was a talentless waste. So if we just flipped Lewis into Gilbert Arenas, then why are you mad?? You're whole qualm with the Magic pursuing him is now moot. Shard was easily moved, and you're mad?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

one thing is true - Hedo got overpaid by Toronto - that's where it all went wrong for him


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> Turkoglu was not a mediocre starter at his peak - he was the glue in a P&R scheme the Magic havent really gotten right since then - and with Nelson out most of the time he was also thier only consistent distributor acting in the role of 'point forward' - *and people seem to forget that he was their closer making several key shots during their play-off runs in 08 and 09*


No, that's actually all that ppl remember. Anyone who actually followed the team during that season really know's what up. I have no reason to decieve myself on what Hedo is in his entirety. If he can just take over MP's role as a shooter in a corner, he should have a place here. He is a better ball handler than MP, so maybe he can do a little more, but idk where his conditioning and focus is at right now so i wont expect much. MP was at least money from 3.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Howard doesn't like losing, the team is a pretty close knit or maybe I should say was now that most of them are gone.
> 
> As for SVG, its on record that SVG and ownership were against the Arenas move.
> 
> There's no doubt that Otis' job is on the line though. When he says stuff like Arenas is the only other person he talks to besides his kid, you know this was somewhat of a personal move. If this does backfire, he is in trouble.


Dwight's made public statements about his teammates without naming specific names whether it was recently or during the playoffs so its reasonable to say that he's backing up the trade moves. I don't doubt that Howard, VC, Shard, etc used to be great buds but times change when they start losing and with the realization that again they don't have what it takes to be a favored contender. Tbh I don't see a rift between SVG and Otis - its more like SVG and Dwight; don't forget Dwight's called out SVG to the media beforehand as well. Both SVG and Otis seem pressured to make deals now (Bass finally a starter to the relief of many Magic fans?) much likes the Cavs last year and the Mavs seemingly every year. Imo I think Dwight's been the catalyst for these sudden trade moves given his comments to the media. 

I do agree that Otis' job is on the line and tbh he's lucky to have still been a GM ever since the Shard fiasco. He overpaid similar roleplayers and fringe stars while letting the Orlando Finals core break up which has forced him to make all-in moves now since he doesn't have the financial flexibility to do otherwise and is pressured to keep Dwight happy or he'll go the way of Melo/LeBron. 

Not an ideal situation but I think the Magic got better talent wise in the end. I wouldn't be surprised if they went on a hot streak like the Mavs did last season after making their own huge trade with the Wizards. However in close-game situations their growing pains will probably show up for the worst and it'll be interesting to see how they handle playoff pressures.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

the problem for Hedo was he was a right fit skills-wise with the Magic complimenting and enabling Howard in a way that didnt and couldnt work with Bosh and the Raptors because Howard and Bosh are very different players and the Raptors really didnt need what Hedo had to offer 

what is the point of stretching the floor for a post player when your so-called post player does most of his damage on jump shots from 15 feet?

what is the point of adding a point forward when Calderon was dishing 41% of his team's dimes (before Hedo got there) 

and what's the point of having a 6'10 dude take the corner when you have a young guy like Bargnani doing just that already?

Toronto never needed Turkoglu - they had what he brought to the table covered already

bad idea for them and bad idea for him


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

So these trades got me thinking. Which team fits this description?
Desperately need a PG like Nelson who can get their offense initiated and also knock down open perimeter shots consistently.
Also have size in the backcourt to compensate for Nelson's defense.
Has a logjam in the frontcourt with young bigs who can play the 4/5.
Are close enough to rebuilding mode to wait on Orton to blossom into a 3rd big man on a playoff team in this league.
To me... all of that just screams Sacramento. Why not do this trade?

Orlando trades Orton/Nelson and cash.

Sacramento trades Udrih/Jason Thompson.

Orlando's 9-man playoff rotation would look like this:

PG Arenas (34 min)/Duhon or Williams or Beno (14)
SG J-Rich (32)/Reddick (20)
SF Hedo (32)/Q-Rich (12)
PF Bass (30)/Thompson (26)
C Howard (40)

Then, Sactown would look more like an actual team with a future.

PG Nelson/Jeter
SG Evans/Garcia/Taylor
SF Caspi/Greene
PF Landry/Orton/Jackson
C Cousins/Dalembert/Whiteside


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I was actually thinking of Sacramento as well, but I am not sure how Tyreke's ballhogging would play with Nelson.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Indiana could use Nelson, but besides that not sure how many teams are actually going to start the guy. He's too small.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> And Seifer, I thought Rashard Lewis was a mistake because he was untradeable? Not because he was a talentless waste. So if we just flipped Lewis into Gilbert Arenas, then why are you mad?? You're whole qualm with the Magic pursuing him is now moot. Shard was easily moved, and you're mad?
> 
> I'm not even going to bring up your pimp dream of bringing in Chris Paul/Melo as if there was ever a possibility. Orlando had no trade chips outside of Vince's contract and as we just realized it's only worth a damaged Hedo Turkoglu.


Easily moved? If you pull up those old threads I have always compared Lewis's contract to 2 other contracts that are just as bad as his (that thread about worst contracts in the NBA). Guess who the other 2 players are? Gilbert Arenas and Elton Brand. Give Otis Smith a pat on the back for flipping 2 of the worst contracts in the NBA.

This trade is more about fixing mistakes than bringing in more talent. Orlando made a mistake by signing Shard and Washington made a mistake by extending Arenas. 



> Play cheap? Did y'all not see how much Hedo is getting paid?? The same ppl who take every oppurtunity to criticize every contract on the team, wouldve been the one's lining up to tell us how horrible the Hedo contract is right now(if we gave it too him, of course). Any contract situation is lose-lose for the Magic, on this board.


If Hedo wasn't worth 10 mil a year for Orlando right after his spectacular playoffs he is somehow worth 10 mil a year now after getting benched in Toronto and then Phoenix. Don't even try to make an argument how Orlando made it better by getting half a season of Jason Richardson while giving up a first round pick and their backup center. The argument back then was keep Hedo when the alternative was only lateral or worse for the team. You guys kept arguing otherwise and now you're wrong, or at least wrong as far as Otis Smith is concerned.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> my take on it is he is a capable of pulling down 30% of his team's defensive rebounds while he is on the floor and turning up court and acting like a PG on the break and that he is a superior defender with a drtg of about 100
> 
> the meanstreak thing? he's inconsistent but you werent talking about consistency you were talking about skill sets
> 
> is Clark a 6'10" guy who can board like a monster but has PG skills? and is he a better defender? Lamar is a superior position defender with multi-position flexibility


This is being overly optimistic of Clark. He didn't even do this stuff when he was with Louisville, flashes here and there. The real all round player on that squad was Terrence Williams.


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Indiana could use Nelson, but besides that not sure how many teams are actually going to start the guy. He's too small.


Orlando also could move Quintin Richardson and Jay Williams to the Clippers for someone like DeAndre Jordan, and keep Jameer Nelson.

In any situation, the Magic's biggest problem is having the second highest salary cap in the league. Barring such a DeAndre Jordan-type of move, the Magic may have to give up more than Nelson if it wants a quality big man.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> Orlando also could move Quintin Richardson and Jay Williams to the Clippers for someone like DeAndre Jordan, and keep Jameer Nelson.


No they couldn't. DeAndre is in his first year getting playing time and he's playing well and looks impressive. You couldn't even get him for Jameer Nelson at this point let alone a scrub with 4 years left on his deal and a guy who is worse than Gary Payton right now.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

What? Jameer is averaging 14.5ppg, 3.0rpg, 7.3apg 45FG% 37%3pt. Those arent pedestrian numbers man.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

that trade idea with Sacramento is perfect for Orlando (getting Thomas and Udrih for Nelson)


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> What? Jameer is averaging 14.5ppg, 3.0rpg, 7.3apg 45FG% 37%3pt. Those arent pedestrian numbers man.


What's your point? Nobody in the NBA trades big for small unless it's an upgrade and everyone knows Jameer is a SG masquerading as a PG. Why would anybody trade a talented young 7 footer who is leading the league in FG% and one of the leaders in blocks for a player who his winning team doesn't want anymore so they can get better?


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> No they couldn't. DeAndre is in his first year getting playing time and he's playing well and looks impressive. You couldn't even get him for Jameer Nelson at this point let alone a scrub with 4 years left on his deal and a guy who is worse than Gary Payton right now.


DeAndre Jordan is the 11th leading scorer on a team with currently the fourth worst record in the league. He's playing a whopping 21 minutes per game. Sounds like a classic case of overrating a player, but whatever.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> DeAndre Jordan is the 11th leading scorer on the team with the worst record in the league. He's playing a whopping 21 minutes per game. Sounds like a classic case of overrating a player, but whatever.


He's playing 25 minutes as a starter and he's only 22. Let's also not act like everyone on a bad team is bad. Kobe won 34 games in his prime on the greatest franchise in NBA history. There are lots of factors that go into winning and losing.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> He's playing 25 minutes as a starter and he's only 22. Let's also not act like everyone on a bad team is bad. Kobe won 34 games in his prime on the greatest franchise in NBA history. There are lots of factors that go into winning and losing.


I didn't say "everyone on a bad team is bad." Complete strawman, especially with the Kobe referemce. Not to mention you're literally putting words in people's mouths. Thank you, but I'm not hungry. 

For the season, DeAndre Jordan is playing 21.8 minutes per game, up from 16.2 minutes per game a year ago. He is a backup for Chris Kaman, and will likely continue to be Kaman's backup as long as Kaman is there. 

He's only starting because Kaman has a sprained ankle right now. He's really been on a tear, I see, with the 6.88 points per game average in 215 minutes of action this month (note the sarcasm). Once again, you're misrepresenting statements purposely. He's a raw, athletic player but right now he is little more than a spot player.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> The guy is no different than people like Ron Artest, Dennis Rodman and Terrell Owens. Like them, Gilbert Arenas went into the professional leagues with a chip on their shoulders, wanting to prove they were as good if not better than a lot of guys picked ahead of them. They not only did that, but exceeded expectations and became stars in their own rights.
> 
> The problem is, like Rodman, Artest and Owens, Arenas couldn't stop there and their egos ran out of control. Arenas' sense of entitlement became such a problem that he was becoming a headache. Then came the two years of injuries. Then came the idiotic guns in the locker room episode, and he got suspended for the bulk of a third season.
> 
> ...


We can agree to disagree. I don't doubt that that person is inside of him but right now that's not who he is.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> I didn't say "everyone on a bad team is bad." Complete strawman, especially with the Kobe referemce. Not to mention you're literally putting words in people's mouths. Thank you, but I'm not hungry.
> 
> Actually, DeAndre Jordan is playing 21.8 minutes per game, up from 16.2 minutes per game a year ago. He is a backup for Chris Kaman, and will likely continue to be Kaman's backup as long as Kaman is there. He's a raw, athletic player but right now he is little more than a spot player.


I said he's playing 25 minutes _as a starter_. And you obviously don't watch him play if you think he will be behind Kaman in the future. He literally punked Pau, who many consider the best center in the league, two weeks ago.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> I said he's playing 25 minutes _as a starter_. And you obviously don't watch him play if you think he will be behind Kaman in the future. He literally punked Pau, who many consider the best center in the league, two weeks ago.


No, I think it's hilarious in order for you to prove a non-point that you literally had to put words in people's mouths and the occasional non sequitur. 

And yes, I have watched DeAndre Jordan play (once again, a case of you pulling things out of mid-air and trying to put in people's mouths). Given that Chris Kaman is near the end of his run in Clipperland with his health and one more year on his contract, that's not exactly a prophetic guess there.

But hey, punking Pau Gasol is going 4-for-6 in 34 minutes of action. Once again, you have a vivid imagination. So vivid, that you imagine people say other things and you put it in their mouths.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I highly doubt that the Clippers trade a center for a 5'11" combo guard when they're already stuck with Baron Davis.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Anyhoo Nash-VC-Hill, bunch of old timers on that Phoenix squad. Wonder if they can make the playoffs.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> No, I think it's hilarious in order for you to prove a non-point that you literally had to put words in people's mouths.
> 
> And yes, I have watched DeAndre Jordan play (once again, a case of you pulling things out of mid-air and trying to put in people's mouths). Given that Chris Kaman is near the end of his run in Clipperland with his health and one more year on his contract, that's not exactly a prophetic guess here.
> 
> But hey, punking Pau Gasol is going 4-for-6 in 34 minutes of action. Once again, you have a vivid imagination. So vivid, that you imagine people say other things and you put it in their mouths.


I put words in your mouth? I posited the idea that not everyone on a bad team is bad.

I clearly said, "if you believe that then," hence I'm not putting words in your mouth but acknowledging and belittling your viewpoint. 

Kaman is going to be surpassed by DeAndre in terms of play beyond this year. Regardless of what team they play on and that was clearly my point and I wasn't referring to an impending team switch.

4-6? I think you need to check those stats again. It was actually 4-13, wild shots with no chance at scoring, inability to move him an inch on postups, his lowest number of offensive rebounds on the season, and his second lowest FG% and scoring outputs on the season.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Except I never said DeAndre Jordan was a bad player simply because he was on the Clippers. That was a case of you trying to put words in people's mouths.

Not to mention the fallacy with the Kobe Bryant reference. Totally out of mid-air. There is nothing to belittle, when you're totally inventing your own conversation in your head that I said something. So the only person you're mocking and blocking is yourself.

As for the 4-for-6, I was referring to Jordan's production. You're right, Pau Gasol was 4-for-13 in that Dec. 8 game. The reality is Jordan is a defensive big man with good athleticism and no offensive game, and is not so untouchable that he cannot be traded.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> Except I never said DeAndre Jordan was a bad player simply because he was on the Clippers. That was a case of you trying to put words in people's mouths.



You brought up the Clippers record to critique him:



> DeAndre Jordan is the 11th leading scorer on a team with currently the fourth worst record in the league.


You didn't point out in rebuttal to my praise of him that he plays on a bad team as a compliment. If you're going to use the bad team argument I'm going to raise the subject that good players have played on bad teams before. This isn't a complicated flow of events and your confounding of them isn't going to work here.


> Not to mention the fallacy with the Kobe Bryant reference. Totally out of mid-air. There is nothing to belittle, when you're totally inventing your own conversation in your head that I said something. So the only person you're mocking and blocking is yourself.


I was actually referring to your Kaman comment. You said I put words in your mouth by saying you don't watch him play and I was pointing out that saying you don't watch him play was a figurative way of suggesting your viewpoint is bunk. It wasn't me putting words in your mouth you took it the wrong way.



> As for the 4-for-6, I was referring to Jordan's production. You're right, Pau Gasol was 4-for-13 in that Dec. 8 game. The reality is Jordan is a defensive big man with good athleticism and no offensive game, and is not so untouchable that he cannot be traded.


Agreed. He can be had but not for Not-so-mighty Mouse.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> If Hedo wasn't worth 10 mil a year for Orlando right after his spectacular playoffs he is somehow worth 10 mil a year now after getting benched in Toronto and then Phoenix. Don't even try to make an argument how Orlando made it better by getting half a season of Jason Richardson while giving up a first round pick and their backup center. The argument back then was keep Hedo when the alternative was only lateral or worse for the team. You guys kept arguing otherwise and now you're wrong, or at least wrong as far as Otis Smith is concerned.


Lol, the problem was over the length of deal as much as or more than over the amount. If bringing VC is a lateral move, doesn't it make sense to only commit 2 yrs into Vince, as opposed to 5yrs into a 30yr old Hedo? Why should we want to risk 5yrs if we dont know he can get us over the top?? Vince was a roll of the dice. Gave it a chance, just to see. We didn't get worse, didn't get better... Now we destroy & rebuild.

Since Hedo forfieted the 5th yr of his deal, he becomes more appetizing to attain him at an overstated rate... (See JJ Redick, easier to overpay him when it's only a 3yr deal.) Hedo is still not worth his price, but it makes since in the scenario. And it's not just Hedo for Vince like you want to think it is. If we dont bring Gilbert Arenas, we dont do this deal. It's two separate deals, but essentially it's a 3-way trade in the sense that we wouldn't have done one without the other. 

And who's to say we dont keep JRich? I dont see how we could find another player of his talents, and if the goal is championship, i dont see why we would want to let him walk... Unless something unforseen takes place or he struggles, I forsee us looking to keep him. Hedo is the 3rd best player we attained. Vince is the best player we gave up.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



> QUESTION: Do you still have it? Can Gilbert be who you used to be a couple of years ago?
> GILBERT ARENAS: ``I think it was more of a confidence thing with me, because I knew I wasn’t the man there anymore. So it was like, I was just *docile.* And now Otis says you’re going to be a main role, just play and be you. So it’s like, OK.’’


That's funny. Kinda exactly what I said, down to the same adjective.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/denton_arenaschat_121810.html


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> You didn't point out in rebuttal to my praise of him that he plays on a bad team as a compliment. If you're going to use the bad team argument I'm going to raise the subject that good players have played on bad teams before.


Your argument is still garbage, though. DeAndre Jordan is still the 11th leading scorer on one of the worst teams in the league. That's a FACT.

What you imply out of it is your own personal problem, not mine. The bottom line is the guy is not exactly going to be more than a marginal piece, barring some rapid improvement (particularly offensively). He's not better than Chris Kaman on offense, gives you about the same in rebounding, is likely a better defender but he can't play more than spot minutes.

Your Kobe Bryant reference is a fallacy, however you want to look at it. It has no place in the conversation, and it's certainly not a case of Jordan being on the same planet as Kobe.



Adam said:


> I was actually referring to your Kaman comment. You said I put words in your mouth by saying you don't watch him play and I was pointing out that saying you don't watch him play was a figurative way of suggesting your viewpoint is bunk.


It's pretty obvious you like overrating 22-year-old centers who are raw. You've done this before with other such players and you're doing it with Jordan. One of your common tactics is coming up with non sequiturs and putting words in people's mouths.

The bottom line is that Orlando is going to need another big man to substitute for Dwight Howard. Moreover, Orlando's salary cap is going to make it difficult for them to get anyone unless they can get a player in a rookie contract or trade Jameer Nelson and some other player to get someone else.

Other than that, let's move on.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> Lol, the problem was over the length of deal as much as or more than over the amount. If bringing VC is a lateral move, doesn't it make sense to only commit 2 yrs into Vince, as opposed to 5yrs into a 30yr old Hedo? Why should we want to risk 5yrs if we dont know he can get us over the top?? Vince was a roll of the dice. Gave it a chance, just to see. We didn't get worse, didn't get better... Now we destroy & rebuild.
> 
> Since Hedo forfieted the 5th yr of his deal, he becomes more appetizing to attain him at an overstated rate... (See JJ Redick, easier to overpay him when it's only a 3yr deal.) Hedo is still not worth his price, but it makes since in the scenario. And it's not just Hedo for Vince like you want to think it is. If we dont bring Gilbert Arenas, we dont do this deal. It's two separate deals, but essentially it's a 3-way trade in the sense that we wouldn't have done one without the other.
> 
> And who's to say we dont keep JRich? I dont see how we could find another player of his talents, and if the goal is championship, i dont see why we would want to let him walk... Unless something unforseen takes place or he struggles, I forsee us looking to keep him. Hedo is the 3rd best player we attained.


I'm actually going to defend you. You have argued in the past that the Rashard Lewis contract wasn't bad because your team would be over the cap anyway and management was still willing to spend and they have been. Lewis bloating the cap hasn't cost you guys a single player or prevented you from making signings in free agency.

However, you have been wrong about Lewis. You have said that you liked that you had the "perfect" player for your team locked up for years and guys like seifer have consistently pointed out to you that Lewis does not help your team. 

I also think that you knowingly diminish what Hedo did for your team. Why do you criticize how he played in the regular season that last year for you and intentionally ignore that he hit a shot in that Philly series to prevent you guys from going down 3-1, had the best game of anybody in the playoffs that year against Boston in game 7, and was the best or second best player on the court for almost all of the Cleveland series? Your team may not ever get back to the finals in your lifetime and you don't give respect to what this guy did to get your team there.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

^Because a big reason for us struggling against Philly, was Hedo getting torched by Iggy... I swear he made Iggy like Lebron James in that series. Yeah he hit shots at the end of game 2 or whatever, but that's that all you outsiders see. As a fan, you watch the whole games. It was painful watching Iggy just playing with him. As a fan, you watch the whole season. You see the inconsistent stretches.

Yeah he did better against Cleveland and Boston, but Shard did well against Cleveland and Boston too. Shard had that amazing game 2 against LA. Nobody wants to give Shard credit,lol. I dont want to criticize Hedo, I just dont think he is on the pedestal some put him on. This is my team, I see the good the bad n the ugly. I dont think I tell other ppl how they are wrong about the players they've watched all year...


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> Lol, the problem was over the length of deal as much as or more than over the amount. If bringing VC is a lateral move, doesn't it make sense to only commit 2 yrs into Vince, as opposed to 5yrs into a 30yr old Hedo? Why should we want to risk 5yrs if we dont know he can get us over the top?? Vince was a roll of the dice. Gave it a chance, just to see. We didn't get worse, didn't get better... Now we destroy & rebuild.


Why are you even explaining the thought process behind making the decision? Everyone knew what Orlando's thought process was at the time and the argument was that they made the wrong decision and the result is that they did.

Let's review what was said for a second

#1. Orlando was better with Hedo/Lewis because the duo creates a match up problem that can't be duplicated by Vince

Check

#2. Orlando needs Hedo Turkoglu's playmaking ability because they lack players that can create on the perimeter

Check

#3. Orlando needs Hedo more than VC especially in the playoffs because Hedo has proven himself to be a better player in the playoffs.

Check

Of course Orlando was rolling the dice with VC and people at the time gave all these reasonings to why it's not worth to take that risk with VC because the reward simply wasn't worth it.



> Since Hedo forfieted the 5th yr of his deal, he becomes more appetizing to attain him at an overstated rate... (See JJ Redick, easier to overpay him when it's only a 3yr deal.) Hedo is still not worth his price, but it makes since in the scenario. And it's not just Hedo for Vince like you want to think it is. If we dont bring Gilbert Arenas, we dont do this deal. It's two separate deals, but essentially it's a 3-way trade in the sense that we wouldn't have done one without the other.


lol....This is just ridiculous

Hedo has also declined to the point where he can't find playtime ahead of Hakim Warrick and Sonny Weems. Part of that decline is due to his age but a lot of it is due to him not being able to adjust to playing outside of Orlando. If Orlando didn't want to pay a prime Hedo 10 mil a year why are they willing to pay even a portion of that to a player that's an even smaller portion of what he was 2 years ago?



> And who's to say we dont keep JRich? I dont see how we could find another player of his talents, and if the goal is championship, i dont see why we would want to let him walk... Unless something unforseen takes place or he struggles, I forsee us looking to keep him. Hedo is the 3rd best player we attained.


They're not going to keep J-Rich because his asking price will be too high. Do you know why he's averaging the most he's averaged in over 4 years? It's a contract year and he's looking to get paid. He's not going to take a paycut to stay with Orlando. Moreover, Orlando has to spend that money on front court depth given that they already have Arenas/Hedo/Redick signed to big money contracts.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

It's futile to argue that Rashard Lewis was not overpaid. That was the consensus when he signed that deal with that sign-and-trade in 2007. Lewis was also 28 then and he wasn't going to get any better, plus he came to Orlando knowing he was going to be out of position playing power forward.

In reality, that was a lot of money to sign essentially a 6-foot-10 Allan Houston at the prime of his career.

As for Hedo Turkoglu, he was a marginal role player for every team except Orlando, and even then he was slightly better than that until SVG became the coach and started running the offense through him. Orlando's situation is a lot different now than it was the last time he was there.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> This is being overly optimistic of Clark. He didn't even do this stuff when he was with Louisville, flashes here and there. The real all round player on that squad was Terrence Williams.


no kidding - I was talking about Odom -someone else compared Clark to Odom which is a joke


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



> Yeah he did better against Cleveland and Boston, but Shard did well against Cleveland and Boston too. Shard had that amazing game 2 against LA. Nobody wants to give Shard credit,lol. I dont want to criticize Hedo, I just dont think he is on the pedestal some put him on. This is my team, I see the good the bad n the ugly.


^Nah Adam is the one who refuses to give Shard credit. Hedo was the only one playing well that year according to him.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> No they couldn't. DeAndre is in his first year getting playing time and he's playing well and looks impressive. You couldn't even get him for Jameer Nelson at this point let alone a scrub with 4 years left on his deal and a guy who is worse than Gary Payton right now.


actually he got 17 mpg last season and this season his per minute production is actually down


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> Yeah he did better against Cleveland and Boston, but Shard did well against Cleveland and Boston too. Shard had that amazing game 2 against LA. Nobody wants to give Shard credit,lol. I dont want to criticize Hedo, I just dont think he is on the pedestal some put him on. This is my team, I see the good the bad n the ugly. I dont think I tell other ppl how they are wrong about the players they've watched all year...


Dude, that's the deal with everyone. Even Howard was playing bad at times and Polish Hammer came in and outplayed him. Look at the Lakers. Every time Derrick Fisher has a bad half Kenneth makes a thread but then he wins the game. Kobe Bryant disappeared in game 7 of the Finals last year. It's a marathon not a sprint.



HB said:


> ^Nah Adam is the one who refuses to give Shard credit. Hedo was the only one playing well that year according to him.


Enjoy the desert.



e-monk said:


> actually he got 17 mpg last season and this season his per minute production is actually down


Inconsistent playing time in unrealistic game situations (blowouts) in the past. Dunleavy was also an idiot. I remember during his rookie year one game where Dunleavy started him and pulled him after three minutes.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Lol I am a general NBA fan. I enjoy all destinations.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Let's all take a moment to allow HB to show us how Rashard Lewis isn't a one dimensional player. According to HB not only can Shard hit the 3 he is also a deadly post up threat and a tenacious inside player that can get to the line at will.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> Inconsistent playing time in unrealistic game situations (blowouts) in the past. Dunleavy was also an idiot. I remember during his rookie year one game where Dunleavy started him and pulled him after three minutes.


he made appearances in 70 games last season - what inconsistent?


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

And I'm sure like many others I am at the edge of my seat waiting for HB to argue that Phoenix should run their offense through Vince instead of Nash because Vince needs his touches to help the team win.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Why? You keep bringing up this dumb suggestions. Why take the ball out of the hands of the guy that will probably give him easy looks? Shouldn't you be more concerned about your Raptors by the way instead of what HB is thinking about?

With that said Gentry has already said they are going to give VC a lot of touches and have him run the offense once in a while.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> Let's all take a moment to allow HB to show us how Rashard Lewis isn't a one dimensional player. According to HB not only can Shard hit the 3 he is also a deadly post up threat and a tenacious inside player that can get to the line at will.


Sounds like LeBron..he's lucky he can pass better.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> he made appearances in 70 games last season - what inconsistent?


Garbage time. Backup goon duty. He never got to play whole quarters in the past. This year he gets to play whole quarters. He's getting quality minutes in the first team.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Why? You keep bringing up this dumb suggestions, I didn't even suggest that when he was with Orlando. Why take the ball out of the hands of the guy that will probably give him easy looks? Shouldn't you be more concerned about your Raptors by the way instead of what HB is thinking about?


My Raptors are doing just fine. I was worried early on because they were winning too much but after Reggie Evans went down they're back on track. Ed Davis is better than I expected and Jerryd Bayless seems like a keeper.

But go ahead, why isn't Rashard Lewis one dimensional again?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Need I bring up the stats page that if I recall you seemed to agree with. I actually think Flip will have him play a bit in the post now. But what does this have to do with Shard by the way? Dont really care about that dude.


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> Why are you even explaining the thought process behind making the decision? Everyone knew what Orlando's thought process was at the time and the argument was that they made the wrong decision and the result is that they did.
> 
> Let's review what was said for a second
> 
> ...


What matchup problem did Hedo create? lol

Vince is better in the post than Hedo, and take advantage of players better than Hedo. Hedo is just 2" taller, and more of a willing passer i guess..



> lol....This is just ridiculous
> 
> Hedo has also declined to the point where he can't find playtime ahead of Hakim Warrick and Sonny Weems. Part of that decline is due to his age but a lot of it is due to him not being able to adjust to playing outside of Orlando. If Orlando didn't want to pay a prime Hedo 10 mil a year why are they willing to pay even a portion of that to a player that's an even smaller portion of what he was 2 years ago?


Because once we decided to get Arenas... and considering that Hedo forfeited the final yr on his deal... the yrs on the deal were no longer as relevant. Magic have already shown that they dont mind overpaying to get a piece they want, as long as the terms are reasonable w/in the bigger picture. They tend to be more concerned with the legnth, because we dont want to waste Dwight's prime. 

The fact that we get JRich is another reaosn we might have been willing to take on that salary. JRich > Hedo.




> They're not going to keep J-Rich because his asking price will be too high. Do you know why he's averaging the most he's averaged in over 4 years? It's a contract year and he's looking to get paid. He's not going to take a paycut to stay with Orlando. Moreover, Orlando has to spend that money on front court depth given that they already have Arenas/Hedo/Redick signed to big money contracts.


Are you his agent? Do you work for Orlando Magic?? Can you see the future??? Lol if so then, im sorry that I was so naive to think that we'd just let 30yr old 18ppg scorer walk away from the Magic in Dwights prime.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

All of this jibber jabber and none of it matters because they still can't beat the Celtics and they probably did as much moving as they'll do with this version of the team. 

All of this and they didn't really change anything, but they've needed a Gilbert Arenas for a long time because Nelson can't finish in the paint and everyone else wants to stand around for a jumper. I think they're slightly better.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

^Thats what I said


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> All of this jibber jabber and none of it matters because they still can't beat the Celtics.


Their goal is probably to beat the Heat. If they get in the Heat's bracket they want to beat them and get to the Conference Finals to keep Dwight happy. They don't want to lose him in '12.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> What matchup problem did Hedo create? lol


That Orlando have 2 front line bigs that are agile enough to get past opposing bigs? That opposing teams don't don't have enough size or speed to guard both of them at the same time? The main reason why they were able to beat the Cavs?

That's the match up problem that I'm talking about.



> Because once we decided to get Arenas... and considering that Hedo forfeited the final yr on his deal... the yrs on the deal were no longer as relevant. Magic have already shown that they dont mind overpaying to get a piece they want, as long as the terms are reasonable w/in the bigger picture. They tend to be more concerned with the legnth, because we dont want to waste Dwight's prime.
> 
> The fact that we get JRich is another reaosn we might have been willing to take on that salary. JRich > Hedo.


Orlando also gave up Gortat and a 1st round pick that right now looks like it will be in the early 20s if not the late teens. Unless you want to argue that getting Earl Clark is worth all of that I suggest you not go down this road. This is a desperation move to try to recreate the magic that they had 2 years ago.



> Are you his agent? Do you work for Orlando Magic?? Can you see the future??? Lol if so then, im sorry that I was so naive to think that we'd just let 30yr old 20ppg scorer walk away from the Magic in Dwights prime.


I need to be his agent to know that he wants more money instead of less money? It must be a blast to be in your shoes. Everything in life must come as an absolute surprise for you because it seems like you have absolutely no foresight. You can't see why Vince in Orlando wouldn't work and you can't see why it was a bad idea to sign a 28 year old spot up shooter 20 mil a year. How rude of me to suggest to you to "see" that a 30 year old playing for his next contract to not want a big contract.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Could you imagine if Dwight started getting unhappy..how many teams would dump just for a meeting with him in 2012...

The Magic really don't know how good they have it with someone you can put on the court and essentially not worry about rebounding or having anything past competent team defenders in front of him. He's the NBA's answer to an offensive line.

All the Magic have had are shooters and a midget who can pass a little bit and they're winning 60 games a year. He has claim for the easiest player to build around since Shaq.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> Their goal is probably to beat the Heat. If they get in the Heat's bracket they want to beat them and get to the Conference Finals to keep Dwight happy. They don't want to lose him in '12.


Yeah, they are still not beating Miami in a playoff series. But at least these moves give them more of a fighters chance.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Need I bring up the stats page that if I recall you seemed to agree with. I actually think Flip will have him play a bit in the post now. But what does this have to do with Shard by the way? Dont really care about that dude.


Actually before you do that you might want to bring up my post where I agreed with you that Shard isn't an one dimensional player.

He is a spot up shooter that can be replaced by around 30 guys that are currently playing in the league. You can replace him with Matt Bonner, Ryan Anderson, Linas Kleiza, Kyle Korver, the list goes on and on and none of them makes close to 20 mil a year.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

^Who's gonna give JR more than $13.3 million next year? Denver?? Will he want win or chase money?? I dont think we can even begin speculate on these accurately until we see how the team does and the chemistry shakes out. It's like uve already determined in you mind that we dont want to keep him and he wont want to be back... We haven't even seen one game yet...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



> Actually before you do that you might want to bring up my post where I agreed with you that Shard isn't an one dimensional player.
> 
> He is a spot up shooter that can be replaced by around 30 guys that are currently playing in the league. You can replace him with Matt Bonner, Ryan Anderson, Linas Kleiza, Kyle Korver, the list goes on and on and none of them makes close to 20 mil a year.


Again, Shard has a somewhat decent post game. But common sense would tell you, when Shard and Dwight are on the court together its hard to play him in the post when Dwight is the first to jostle for position down there. Shard has to play on the perimeter when Dwight is there.

Lol you realize Shard made the all star game once right? Guess Korver, Kleiza and co. could do that too right?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Flip isn't putting Rashard Lewis in the post. If he suddenly shrunk to 6-4 tommorow the only thing Wizards management would say is at least he won't be a tall target at the club and hopefully he doesn't shrink again...I don't understand why people pretend he's worth a damn in the interior because he's tall. 

He's going to stand on the wing or baseline or when he's ready to actually do something come of screens for catch and shoot action. I think for his actual ability it's a great system for him, but to act like he's going to breaking down people in the post or some **** is idiotic. 

The only time Lewis goes in the post is if he has a quick matchup exploit, like every other player in the NBA.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> ^Who's gonna give him more than $13.3 million next year? Denver?? Will he want win or chase money?? I dont think we can even begin speculate on these accurately until we see how the team does and the chemistry shakes out. It's like uve already determined in you mind that we dont want to keep him and he wont want to be back... We haven't even seen one game yet...


Who said anything about 13.3 mil? It's about what other teams are willing to pay him vs. what Orlando is willing to pay him. I'm just making a prediction that because they already have major money invested in the backcourt with Redick/Arenas/Hedo that they won't offer J-Rich nearly enough money compare to other teams. You don't think that's reasonable?

I'm going to tell you once more, try to follow this time. This trade is about Otis Smith trying to recreate magic that he had 2 years ago. Vince and J-Rich are similar players and Orlando was better off with Gortat/1st than a damaged Hedo. Otis Smith realized what Hedo can do for his team, something that Vince cannot do and that's why the trade was made.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> Flip isn't putting Rashard Lewis in the post. If he suddenly shrunk to 6-3 tommorow the only thing Wizards management would say is at least he won't be a tall target at the club and hopefully he doesn't shrink again...I don't understand why people pretend he's worth a damn in the interior because he's tall.
> 
> He's going to stand on the wing or baseline or when he's ready to actually do something come of screens for catch and shoot action. I think for his actual ability it's a great system for him, but to act like he's going to breaking down people in the post or some **** is idiotic.
> 
> The only time Lewis goes in the post is if he has a quick matchup exploit, like every other player in the NBA.


Occasional thing dude, it'd actually be stupid to not use your 6'10 SF take smaller players into the post. Those are easy buckets for dude right there.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Again, Shard has a somewhat decent post game. But common sense would tell you, when Shard and Dwight are on the court together its hard to play him in the post when Dwight is the first to jostle for position down there. Shard has to play on the perimeter when Dwight is there.
> 
> Lol you realize Shard made the all star game once right? Guess Korver, Kleiza and co. could do that too right?


lol you know Shaq was once considered the best player in the league right? Let's see Brook Lopez ever do that. So I guess using your logic the Celtics would rather have Shaq than Brook Lopez.

At their current state Shard is no different from Matt Bonner and Kleiza. In fact Kleiza might even be better because he has a much better motor. Of course, none of them are getting paid 20 mil a year.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Occasional thing dude, it'd actually be stupid to not use your 6'10 SF take smaller players into the post. Those are easy buckets for dude right there.


Like I said, height isn't everything. He may be tall but that doesn't mean he knows what he's doing down there. 

And most small forwards are a good 6-7 to 6-8 with bigger wingspans, they're not going to be consistently dwarfed in the post by Lewis, especially when he has no actual skills down there. He'll try to use his wingspan to zip past slower defenders occasionally, but he's not an option down there. 

I'm just trying to figure out how anyone who claims to understand basketball would act like it's otherwise.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> lol you know Shaq was once considered the best player in the league right? Let's see Brook Lopez ever do that. So I guess using your logic the Celtics would rather have Shaq than Brook Lopez.


Heh? What does one have to do with another? Again you realize this one dimensional player put up 20ppg thrice in his career right? (22pg one of them) Do you know how hard it is to put up 20ppg strictly on shooting 3's?

Stop talking about **** you know nothing about.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Heh? What does one have to do with another? Again you realize this one dimensional player put up 20ppg thrice in his career right? (22pg one of them) Do you know how hard it is to put up 20ppg strictly on shooting 3's?


That his number were inflated because he was playing on a horrendous team? Again, I never said anything about a 23-25 year old Rashard being an one dimensional player, I said that a present day Rashard is an one dimensional player. Stop talking as if he still can average 20 on any team.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> Like I said, height isn't everything. He may be tall but that doesn't mean he knows what he's doing down there.
> 
> But we're not even going to get into it.


Please dont bring that crap in here. Again dude averaged 20ppg 3 times in his career. You really think he did that shooting 3's all game long. Come on man!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> That his number were inflated because he was playing on a horrendous team? Again, I never said anything about a 23-25 year old Rashard being an one dimensional player, I said that a present day Rashard is an one dimensional player. Stop talking as if he still can average 20 on any team.


He cant put up 20ppg, but you really think dude has fallen off that much that all he does is shoot 3's? Do skills really diminish that fast?


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Rashard Lewis also had a string of seven seasons averaging at least 17 points per game and an eighth season where he averaged 16.8 ppg.

As for whether he has lost his skills to where he is one-dimensional, we shall see in Washington. I personally thought he was miscast as a power forward in SVG's Rocketball system and left him exposed vs. the likes of Kevin Garnett.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> Rashard Lewis also had a string of seven seasons averaging at least 17 points per game and an eighth season where he averaged 16.8 ppg.


Thanks man, there's a reason why he got that contract and its not because he was just a *good 3pt shooter*


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

20 ppg is the worst stat to happen to basketball. Do that once and people will petition to name a star after you..I swear...

But when Lewis was scoring his highest point totals he had his athleticism, he would actually go to the basket, get some quick finish opportunities, but like most wings, when that left and it was too much to consistently try to beat NBA defenses to the basket he just decided to stand on the wing.

Remember when T-Mac said the reintroduction of the zone defense was a bad idea and he had no idea how to beat it? And this was still when he was an all-star, but right after that moment is when he himself started just jacking up shots. This isn't a coincidence that so many wings that used to kill the bucket became jumpshooters.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> Flip isn't putting Rashard Lewis in the post. If he suddenly shrunk to 6-4 tommorow the only thing Wizards management would say is at least he won't be a tall target at the club and hopefully he doesn't shrink again...I don't understand why people pretend he's worth a damn in the interior because he's tall.
> 
> He's going to stand on the wing or baseline or when he's ready to actually do something come of screens for catch and shoot action. I think for his actual ability it's a great system for him, but to act like he's going to breaking down people in the post or some **** is idiotic.
> 
> The only time Lewis goes in the post is if he has a quick matchup exploit, like every other player in the NBA.


He posted up all the time in Seattle and was very good at it.

That Seattle team never had a center or a power forward better than Vin Baker though.

I just wonder if the Suns will trade Vince Carter to the Rockets for Kevin Martin so HB can have Twill and Vince on the same team and not be confused anymore.

Also ironic that out of the 3 times Vince has been traded this is by far the most talent a team has gotten for him.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> He cant put up 20ppg, but you really think dude has fallen off that much that all he does is shoot 3's? Do skills really diminish that fast?


Does it really matter what his skills are if he can't translate that to the court? I don't care what he "can" do, I want to know what he has done. If he plays like an one dimensional player than he is an one dimensional player. I don't care if he can juggle 3 basketballs while riding an uni-cycle if he's not going to do that on the court. He wasn't doing that for Orlando, the team that paid 20 mil for his services. He was a spot up shooter and that's why it was a bad idea for Orlando to sign him to that albatross of a contract.

I just can't believe how simple a concept is so difficult to understand.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> 20 ppg is the worst stat to happen to basketball. Do that once and people will petition to name a star after you..I swear...


He did it 3 times, you also seem to ignore the string of 17ppg seasons or so. This guy isn't some bum dude.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> Does it really matter what his skills are if he can't translate that to the court? I don't care what he "can" do, I want to know what he has done. If he plays like an one dimensional player than he is an one dimensional player. I don't care if he can juggle 3 basketballs while riding an uni-cycle if he's not going to do that on the court. He wasn't doing that for Orlando, the team that paid 20 mil for his services. He was a spot up shooter and that's why it was a bad idea for Orlando to sign him to that albatross of a contract.
> 
> I just can't believe how simple a concept is so difficult to understand.


Read Najee and Jamel's posts....SVG turned him into what he is now. Considering he's going to a taem where there's no dominant big like Dwight, he's going to have to do more than just shoot 3's. Now how simple a concept is that for you.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> He did it 3 times, you also seem to ignore the string of 17ppg seasons or so. This guy isn't some bum dude.


You keep replying with little BS posts before I edit my posts, go back and read the full ones and reply to those points.

And who's even saying that he's a bum? Just because we're saying he's just a jumpshooter?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Read Najee and Jamel's posts....SVG turned him into what he is now. Considering he's going to a taem where there's no dominant big like Dwight, he's going to have to do more than just shoot 3's. Now how simple a concept is that for you.





HB said:


> Again, Shard has a somewhat decent post game. But common sense would tell you, when Shard and Dwight are on the court together its hard to play him in the post when Dwight is the first to jostle for position down there. Shard has to play on the perimeter when Dwight is there.
> 
> Lol you realize Shard made the all star game once right? Guess Korver, Kleiza and co. could do that too right?


So Orlando went out and got a guy who can post up even though he can't post up in their system.

That makes a lot of sense. Please continue, it's comical to watch you try to grab on to anybody that remotely shares your views.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

4 and out system....that's what Orlando runs. Read up on it. Otis isn't coaching the team, SVG is. SVG made do with what he had. They had some success playing Shard at the 4 and the whole bombs away philosophy. But again, Shard cannot do much in the post when Dwight is there. Isnt this simple enough for you?

When Dwight is out, Shard gets touches in the post and gets to show more of his game. Why do you keep arguing this stuff with me?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

So if we concede and agree with you that he has a "somewhat decent" postgame can we agree that it still doesn't mean Flip is going to be running him through the post?

If he's playing the wing in a Flip offense he's going to be moving around looking for a quick spotup opportunity, you can't give him real minutes at the 4 because then you only have Blatche or McGee on the boards and defensively they can't save him like Dwight could. There's just no room for it to happen.

And per that Lewis on the Magic post, Dwight is a guy that has trouble staying on the court at points, why wouldn't Lewis break out his Kevin McHale routine then?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™;6438566 said:


> So if we concede and agree with you that he has a "somewhat decent" postgame can we agree that it still doesn't mean Flip is going to be running him through the post?
> 
> If he's playing the wing in a Flip offense he's going to be moving around looking for a quick spotup opportunity, you can't give him real minutes at the 4 because then you only have Blatche or McGee on the boards and defensively they can't save him like Dwight could. There's just no room for it to happen.
> 
> *And per that Lewis on the Magic post, Dwight is a guy that has trouble staying on the court at points, why wouldn't Lewis break out his Kevin McHale routine then?*


The fact that Gortat rarely gets time on court should put that to rest, unless of course you know of some other backup center the Magic have used in the last two years or so.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> The fact that Gortat rarely gets time on court should put that to rest, unless of course you know of some other backup center the Magic have used in the last two years or so.





HB said:


> *When Dwight is out, Shard gets touches in the post and gets to show more of his game.* Why do you keep arguing this stuff with me?


You essentially could've used that again, but then you act like what I'm saying doesn't make sense essentially ruining your own point you made a post previous. 

So which one is it?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Let me make an analogy so you can see how ridiculous your claim is.

Let's say you have a half a million dollar to spend and you want to get a house, a car, and other living supplies like food/water/heat.

You went out and got a big house(Dwight) but instead of spending the rest of the money on a nice car for your family, you bought a boat(Shard). However your family still needs a car to get around but because theres not enough money for a car(Power Forward), you ended up buying each family member bicycles(Bass/Ryan Anderson). Obviously you can't get very far on a bike so your family constantly comes up short when they want to go anywhere important. And because you spent all your money on bicycles you don't have any money left for food/heat and all that other stuff. So you go into debt and are now living on kraft dinner and the house has no heat. Worst of all you discovered that your house is located in the middle of a desert so now your boat is resting in your yard and acts as a storage building.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

When there's no valid point, it becomes story time.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

You're a clown B. I'm sorry it's just really comical and really predictable...

"We're done here" (C)Johnny Sack


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> When there's no valid point, it becomes story time.


I have absolutely no point to argue because whatever I've said in the past have all been validated through this trade.

You guys can kick and scream all you want but it's obvious what has happened here.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Guys acting like they are on the coaching staff....lol and instead of acknowledging when they are wrong and shutting up they bring up stories and irrelevant stuff. 

*Link*



> We think Rashard is going to really be able to help our frontcourt with his experience, his versatility, his ability to stretch the defense. He's a 39 percent career three-point shooter, and when you have a point guard like John who likes to penetrate and is a distributor, you need people who can stretch the D. He can play on the outside, but he can post up when he has smaller players on him. He was a two-time all-star, comes from a great winning environment, and we're really pleased to have him on our ballclub. This fits into our rebuilding and we're rebuilding around our young players and through the draft, but to be able to do that, you also need some veteran leadership and I think Rashard is one of those players who can lead by example along with Kirk and Josh Howard of course.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

That is too funny. Have you ever read a press release where the GM or coach doesn't praise the incoming player?

No, I expect Washington to say "We expect Rashard to struggle because he's a terrible player."

Nice try though.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> Who said anything about 13.3 mil? It's about what other teams are willing to pay him vs. what Orlando is willing to pay him. I'm just making a prediction that because they already have major money invested in the backcourt with Redick/Arenas/Hedo that they won't offer J-Rich nearly enough money compare to other teams. You don't think that's reasonable?


$13.3mil is what he currently makes, and Magic were willing to currently pay... I dont see why Magic wouldn't be willing pay anything under that, assuming he plays well for us and the new CBA doesn't change much... I dont see how JJ Redick or a 33yr old Hedo would make us want to let a 18ppg scorer go tho... 



> I'm going to tell you once more, try to follow this time. This trade is about Otis Smith trying to recreate magic that he had 2 years ago. Vince and J-Rich are similar players and Orlando was better off with Gortat/1st than a damaged Hedo. Otis Smith realized what Hedo can do for his team, something that Vince cannot do and that's why the trade was made.


That's _one of many_ trains of thought one could choose to take, but it's not one that I would subscribe to(nor do I think the GM would either). Doesn't trading Lewis ruin any hope of 're-creating that magic' anyway? Oh that's right, we dont give Lewis any credit... What am i thinking? 

I think you focus too much on the aqcuisition of Hedo. To me Hedo is the guy we got to replace MP's role as 4th or 5th starter. He's attractive cuz he can be a better ball-handler than MP, so we were willing to give up a pick. After aqcuiring Arenas, we also needed a starting SF. That's the reason for obtaining Hedo imho. 

JRich is the impact scorer we wanted to get, who can play unselfish, but also take over at times and scored 42 points last year in the playoffs. We wanted a piece of that imo. Arenas, he is a bigger combo guard who can facilitate the offense when need be, can get his own shot, and can also take over at times. If Meer is getting bullied, we have an alternative now. I think JRich n Arenas were the centerpiece of the deal for the GM. 

Any talk about 're-creating Magic' w Hedo, that is all speculation. I dont see why anyone with their job on the line would subscribe to that theory as the basis of making these moves these moves. Hedo is ok, i like him a little bit, but he is not gonna be what does it. JR and Quality Shots need to be the real deal if we want to be where we want to be, 1) to impress Dwight and 2) to win championships. That's real.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Seriously, even if a team acquires Eddie Griffin tomorrow I bet the GM would find something positive to say. 

"Eddie Griffin's remains will motivate the team and bring us good luck in key games. His death will teach our players not to drive recklessly. Because of him we will have more living players and more living players equal more wins."


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> $13.3mil is what he currently makes, and Magic were willing to currently pay... I dont see why Magic wouldn't be willing pay anything under that, assuming he plays well for us and the new CBA doesn't change much... I dont see how JJ Redick or a 33yr old Hedo would make us want to let a 18ppg scorer go tho...


Are you really that dumb? Orlando is paying essentially the same this year with Vince/Gortat as with Hedo/J-Rich. That doesn't tell you anything about what they're willing to pay for him next year.

Do you not follow what I'm saying? They already have major money invested in Arenas/Hedo/Redick and they have gaping holes in their front court. It's unlikely they will pay what J Rich asks for and not spend that money on other players that would cover bigger holes in their roster.



> I think you focus too much on the aqcuisition of Hedo. To me Hedo is the guy we got to replace MP's role as 4th or 5th starter. He's attractive cuz he can be a better ball-handler than MP, so we were willing to give up a pick. After aqcuiring Arenas, we also needed a starting SF. That's the reason for obtaining Hedo imho.


No...Vince and JRich are comparable players. Get that into your head. If the trade didn't involve Hedo there would be no trade. Thers no point switching vince for *Jrich*, the point is that Otis Smith knew what Hedo did in the past for Orlando and he is hoping that he can recreate what worked in the past. The problem is I think that ship has sailed because Hedo is damaged goods, both in age and in experience.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Guys acting like they are on the coaching staff....lol and instead of acknowledging when they are wrong and shutting up they bring up stories and irrelevant stuff.
> 
> *Link*


This doesn't help your point at all, you know that right?

All I see is Flip raving about stretching the D and then says what I already admitted a couple posts into the discussion, that Rashard can post up when he has a matchup. 

I don't have to be on the coaching staff to infer from that Rashard will be on the perimeter and will get some chances to get at slower, smaller players depending on the matchup. Never denied that.

What I'm saying is you're talking like Lewis is some great post player that you can rely on every play down or something when it's not the case. It's nothing special to be 6-10 and able to get points over smaller or slower players sometimes. Furthermore I watch more Wizards games than you probably so I know what I'm talking about with the fundamentals of Flip's system. 

You talk about basketball like they're out on the street and there aren't roles or plays to be called.

At the end of the day, what is your point? That Rashard can postup smaller players sometimes? OK. He can. Who can't?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> Are you really that dumb? Orlando is paying essentially the same this year with Vince/Gortat as with Hedo/J-Rich. That doesn't tell you anything about what they're willing to pay for him next year.


No, I just dont think our Front Office is that dumb. I dont think they make this deal just to let Jason Richardson walk... If you think that, then you essentially think our front office is dumb. I chose to think they intend to keep JRich, which then makes this deal actually make sense.



> Do you not follow what I'm saying? They already have major money invested in Arenas/Hedo/Redick and they have gaping holes in their front court. It's unlikely they will pay what J Rich asks for and not spend that money on other players that would cover bigger holes in their roster.


Redick is not relevant. He is a role player. Any decision we make will be based on winning, and pleasing Dwight, not based on Redick's contract. Any other logic, i wouldn't be able to follow.. So no, im not quite following... 



> No...Vince and JRich are comparable players. Get that into your head. If the trade didn't involve Hedo there would be no trade. Thers no point switching vince for hedo, the point is that Otis Smith knew what Hedo did in the past for Orlando and he is hoping that he can recreate what worked in the past. The problem is I think that ship has sailed because Hedo is damaged goods, both in age and in experience.


So you essentially think our front office is stupid. I think that's why i'm not following your logic. I'm actually holding out hope that there is some rational thought behind all of this... What you're proposing is not rational, unless Dwight comes out after the playoffs and says he's leaving.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> No, I just dont think our Front Office is that dumb. I dont think they make this deal just to let Jason Richardson walk... If you think that, then you essentially think our front office is dumb. I chose to think they intend to keep JRich, which then makes this deal actually make sense.


When did I say that? Your front office is dumb for choosing vince over Hedo and your front office is dumb for giving Shard that contract. Your front office would be dumb if they spend all their resources on J Rich next year and neglect the glaring holes that they have up front.

I'm saying that you're dumb, your front office would be dumb if they do what you are suggesting. I'm suggesting that they go a different direction.

Again, try to follow what I'm telling you.



> Redick is not relevant. He is a role player. Any decision we make will be based on winning, and pleasing Dwight, not based on Redick's contract. Any other logic, i wouldn't be able to follow.. So no, im not quite following...


Wait, so who was it that argued that he wasn't overpaid? He is relevant because he is being paid 7 mil a year. Unless Orlando somehow "easily" move him for another overpaid guy there remains a logjam at the back while thin at the front.




> So you essentially think our front office is stupid. I think that's why i'm not following your logic. I'm actually holding out hope that there is some rational thought behind all of this... What you're proposing is not rational, unless Dwight comes out after the playoffs and says he's leaving.


take it easy Unless you're working for the Magic then the 2 don't link together.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> That is too funny. Have you ever read a press release where the GM or coach doesn't praise the incoming player?
> 
> No, I expect Washington to say "We expect Rashard to struggle because he's a terrible player."
> 
> Nice try though.


Considering that guy is getting paid the most on their team, pretty sure they'd want him to do more than just be Mike Miller out there.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Rashard Lewis would be the highest paid on a lot of teams. Wasn't he the highest paid on the Magic? That's a horrible basis.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> When did I say that? Your front office is dumb for choosing vince over Hedo and your front office is dumb for giving Shard that contract. Your front office would be dumb if they spend all their resources on J Rich next year and neglect the glaring holes that they have up front.
> 
> I'm saying that you're dumb, your front office would be dumb if they do what you are suggesting. I'm suggesting that they go a different direction.
> 
> Again, try to follow what I'm telling you.


:2ti:

You're irrational. Glaring holes in the front court? What holes? Dont you remember we let Hedo walk so we could get that guy, Brandon Bass? A better player than Hedo... 

The only hole on the roster right now is backup center. The weakest position on the roster is SF. What kind of resources are you anticipating will be spent on a backup C, that's more important than retaining an 18ppg scorer tho?



> Wait, so who was it that argued that he wasn't overpaid? He is relevant because he is being paid 7 mil a year. Unless Orlando somehow "easily" move him for another overpaid guy there remains a logjam at the back while thin at the front.


Idk, who was it? My position has been that a 3yr deal wasn't crippling anyone.



> No, I think you're stupid. Unless you're working for the Magic then the 2 don't link together.


You're stance is that the Magic wanted to go out and get Hedo back, but that they dont realize the ship has sailed on him... I'm saying that our GM is dumb if that is his thought process. You're saying that i'm dumb, for think our GM is dumb, for thinking that Hedo is the long lost elixir to success lol. Whatever.

I believe that we liked JRich, and getting Hedo is convenient since he knows our system and has been decent in it, and is a better ballhandler than MP... If the plan is just to get Hedo and let JRich walk, then this is all a waste of time and Dwight is leaving in 2 years. They have to actually believe that JRich can be a key piece to plug next to Dwight, otherwise this trade is a fail. Maybe it is, but there's no way to decide that @ this moment and I doubt that is the thought process of the GM. It's possible JRich walks, but I highly doubt that it is the intent right now for him is to walk. The intent im sure is that he will be a key cog to a contending team...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> Rashard Lewis would be the highest paid on a lot of teams. Wasn't he the highest paid on the Magic? That's a horrible basis.


A lot of teams dont have Dwight clogging up the paint.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Considering that guy is getting paid the most on their team, pretty sure they'd want him to do more than just be Mike Miller out there.


That's some logic you're sporting HB. I wasn't aware that somebody is making more than Lewis in Orlando.

Washington plays a free flowing run and gun game with their current mix of players. They don't have much of a half court offense and I don't certainly don't see Lewis posting up all that often even if he will now have the height advantage playing the 3 full time. Since nobody on the Wizards can hit an outside shot I would expect Lewis to fill that role even more than people think.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

So when Flip decides to give Shard post up opportunities are you two going to come in here and apologize? I doubt it


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> A lot of teams dont have Dwight clogging up the paint.


I didn't even know we were talking the post thing still.

When you said a "Mike Miller role" I thought you meant in overall value to the team, not his actual role on court..but now that you put it like that Lewis is going to be more of a spotup shooter than some faux postup option. 

Lewis will get points in the paint with Wall if he moves around, but he's not going to be posting everything up, let's just kill that.

And don't front on Miller because I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather have Miller when he's completely himself, he has a value as a facilitator Lewis will never have.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Cotdamn why didnt you say that from the get go


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> So when Flip decides to give Shard post up opportunities are you two going to come in here and apologize? I doubt it


I *did not* say Lewis wouldn't get to back down a guy depending on his matchup sometimes, if you play and watch basketball you know opportunities like that happen every so often, but that's a far cry from something you gameplan on nightly. 

Lewis' role will be a shooter, and depending on where he's at, he can get points if he wants to run and dribble to the basket (unlikely), but acting like he's some viable post option is just futile. I mean I don't know how many times I have to spell my point out to you. I've said this same thing 3+ times now.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

But that's what I said. He will get some touches in the post, even used the word occasionally. He'll hoist a bunch of 3's thats his game, but he's not one dimensional as that other guy tried to paint it. Players dont have multiple 20ppg seasons just hoisting 3s. And the annoying part is I keep telling dude Dwight is in the paint that's why Shard doesnt do much else on Orlando, pretty sure dude gets that but continues to dodge that SIMPLE point.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

That still makes him fairly one dimensional though, if he can only postup based on size that's nothing you can really hang your hat on, especially considering any contender will have a ton of big men that would eat him up in the post.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Shard was a pretty good player in that last year he was at Seattle. I suspect that's what Otis figured he'd continue doing at Orlando.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> 4 and out system....that's what Orlando runs. Read up on it. Otis isn't coaching the team, SVG is. SVG made do with what he had. They had some success playing Shard at the 4 and the whole bombs away philosophy. But again, Shard cannot do much in the post when Dwight is there. Isnt this simple enough for you?
> 
> When Dwight is out, Shard gets touches in the post and gets to show more of his game. Why do you keep arguing this stuff with me?


Lewis has always been what he is - 6 boards a game tops, 5 or 6 treys a contest - that's his game and it goes back to Seattle - it has nothing to do with SVG:

Lewis 06-07 6.5 3paG at 39%, 6.6rpg only 15% of his shots from 'close'

Lewis 09-10 5.9 3paG at 39%, 4.4rpg only 13% of his shots from 'close'

same dude, no SVG tampering necessary


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Shard was a pretty good player in that last year he was at Seattle. I suspect that's what Otis figured he'd continue doing at Orlando.


 and he more or less did 

(QED - IBID)


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

When Rashard Lewis was in Seattle, the SuperSonics played in a fullcourt, perimeter-based offense. Those Nate McMillan teams occasionally played a lineup of Lewis, Ray Allen, Brent Barry and Antonio Daniels or Flip Murray, with Vladimir Radmanovic being the de-facto center that dragged big men out to the perimeter.

In addition to showing shooting skills that extend out to 3-point range, Lewis showed some post moves and a more varied game (including even creating his own shot). Even though he is being painted as a standstill shooter, Lewis showed in Seattle he was more athletic than people may give him credit for.

In three-plus seasons in Orlando, half of Lewis' field goal attempts came from 3-point land. In his biggest mad-bombing years in Seattle, less than 40 percent of his shots came from 3-point land. Moreover, Lewis' shot attempts per game decreased every season in Orlando. This season, Lewis was taking his fewest shots per game since his second NBA season.

I don't know how much of that can be attributed to any diminished skill or his personality (like Lamar Odom, Lewis tends to go into spells of passive play), but we may find out in Washington. What I do know is that in Orlando, he was in SVG's Rocketball offense and he was miscast at power forward. 

Lewis is really a small forward who causes matchup problems better at the 3 spot. He occasionally can be moved to power forward to spread the floor, but IMO he clearly suffered when he had to play the likes of Kevin Garnett on the defensive end.


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## PopSnackBox (Dec 20, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I don't think anyone can say it's good or bad for the Magic just yet. Right now it looks like a lateral move to me, but I really think it could go either way drastically.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> Lewis has always been what he is - 6 boards a game tops, 5 or 6 treys a contest - that's his game and it goes back to Seattle - it has nothing to do with SVG:
> 
> Lewis 06-07 6.5 3paG at 39%, 6.6rpg only 15% of his shots from 'close'
> 
> ...


In his final year in Seattle (2006-07), Rashard Lewis had a career-high 16.8 shots per game with 6.5 shots per game from 3-point land. So 39 percent of his shots came from downtown.

In his first year in Orlando (2007-08), his shot attempts went to 14 per game -- his lowest average since his fourth season, 2001-02. But his number of 3-pointers per game actually went up to 6.8, meaning 49 percent of his shots came from downtown.

That pattern continued in 2008-09, when Lewis shot 13.8 times per game and 7 attempts per game from 3-point land (51 percent). Last year, it was 11.2 shots per game -- his lowest average since his second season (1999-2000) -- with 5.9 per game coming from downtown (53 percent).

This year? 10.8 shots per game, with 4.8 coming from downtown (44 percent).

And naturally, with fewer shots and more shots coming from 3-point territory, his field goal would suffer (it went down every year in Orlando). The same with his free-throw attempts (never more than 3.4 attempts per game in a season in Orlando, and only 1.8 attempts per game this season).


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

It really has nothing to do with what Lewis did in Seattle. Orlando brought him in to do things that, as Blu and HB have pointed out, aren't available to him to do. Why bring in a guy that can do all those things when he can't do anything other than launch 3s in your system? And to pay him 20 mil a year for that is what I've always argued, a mistake on part of Orlando's management.



HB said:


> So when Flip decides to give Shard post up opportunities are you two going to come in here and apologize? I doubt it


That sounds like a wager. Do you want to bet that Lewis will be more or less the same player in DC as he was in Orlando? We can even set out some stats to define changes.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Nah Dre has already summed it up or at least how he will be used. I am not defending the contract, dude's overpaid. I am not sure Otis and SVG are on the same page. What Otis thought Shard would do is different from how SVG used him.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> It really has nothing to do with what Lewis did in Seattle. Orlando brought him in to do things that, as Blu and HB have pointed out, aren't available to him to do. Why bring in a guy that can do all those things when he can't do anything other than launch 3s in your system? And to pay him 20 mil a year for that is what I've always argued, a mistake on part of Orlando's management.


I may be confused, then. I was thinking the argument was that Rashard Lewis' offensive game was much more varied than what was shown in Orlando.

Personally, I always thought SVG was trying to make Orlando into a new version of Rudy Tomjanovich's Rockets that won titles in the mid-1990s -- namely, have four 3-long range shooters surrounding a dominant big man. The bombers would stretch the floor and allow the big man to roam around without worrying about double teams.

In the previous year (2006-07), Orlando was 28th in 3-point attempts. In the first year of SVG ball and Lewis' arrival (2007-08), Orlando catapulted to second in 3-point attempts. In 2008-09, Orlando retained its No. 2 position. In 2009-10, Orlando was first.

Lewis is a strong outside shooter, and I'm sure SVG wanted Lewis to play at the power forward spot to create mismatches and force the big men to come out on the floor. The problem, IMO, is SVG essentially chained Lewis to the 3-point line and then allowed him to be overwhelmed defensively by elite pwer forwards like Kevin Garnett -- not a good proposition, given that Lewis is an average at best defender even at small forward.


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> Personally, I always thought SVG was trying to make Orlando into a new version of Rudy Tomjanovich's Rockets that won titles in the mid-1990s -- namely, have four 3-long range shooters surrounding a dominant big man. The bombers would stretch the floor and allow the big man to roam around without worrying about double teams.


Pretty much, just the Pick & Roll version.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

SVGs fault that Rashard did not play to his full potential in Orlando. Lewis agreed to play PF when Tony Battie got injured during the camp just because he is a good person and professional, or maybe he was just grateful for that huge contract. Of course he was overpaid but if he stayed at his natural SF position he would be more successful in Magic uniform. I was always wondering how can you sign someone who proved you that he worth the money by playing SF and then switch him to PF??? 
My main concern now that SVG will not use Arenas and Richardson to their current potential as well...


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> I may be confused, then. I was thinking the argument was that Rashard Lewis' offensive game was much more varied than what was shown in Orlando.
> 
> Personally, I always thought SVG was trying to make Orlando into a new version of Rudy Tomjanovich's Rockets that won titles in the mid-1990s -- namely, have four 3-long range shooters surrounding a dominant big man. The bombers would stretch the floor and allow the big man to roam around without worrying about double teams.
> 
> ...


Again, I do not dislike Rashard Lewis as a player. I can care less about what he could do and what he couldn't do. The point all along was that Orlando made a mistake of signing him. Whether he could post up but he couldn't post up in Orlando or he flat out can't do it is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is he is nothing more than a spot up shooter, a Matt Bonner, Scalabrine, Kyle Korver, Jason Kapono in Orlando. HB wanted to argue that he is not as bad of a player as we paint him to be by saying that he isn't one dimensional and my argument was what good is Lewis's all around game if he can't show it in Orlando?


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The mistakes Orlando made with Rashard Lewis, more specifically:

1.) Signing him to a six-year, $118 deal, which is way too much for a guy who IMO should be no more than the No. 3 man on a potential contender.

2.) Playing a natural small forward who is an average defender at power forward, and leaving him to defend the bigger, elite power forwards.

3.) Chaining him to the 3-point line.

Lewis is not a one-dimensional offensive player, at least he wasn't in Seattle; Orlando's Rocketball system is what made him one dimensional, compared to his Seattle days. 

Lewis may have been a better fit at small forward and allowed to score in other manners, similar to what he did in Seattle. He certainly would have benefitted defensively going against other small forwards.

It seemed that the Rocketball system also worked a little against Vince Carter's free-wheeling style as well. So the argument may be more against SVG's coaching style and Orlando overpaying for Lewis than Lewis personally, per se.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The reasoning that those 2 clowns are giving us is that Shard couldn't use his post up ability because of Dwight Howard. Which then begs the question why Orlando brought Shard in to compliment Howard knowing that it would've turned Shard into an one dimensional player. It's still a mistake no matter how you cut it. It was a mistake to bring in Rashard Lewis at 20 mil a year. What is even funnier is that people even want to use some bizarro logic to say that because Lewis is a better player than he has shown in Orlando it would somehow make him less overpaid.

It's just comical the depths that blind homer fans go to in order to rationalize decisions that their GM makes. It's funnier when even their own GM admits mistake these fans still refuse to open their eyes and see what is happening. People argued that Orlando would be better with Hedo than Vince. Back then I thought that one day the truth would show but even then I never thought that Orlando would go the distance and actually bring Hedo back and get rid of Vince on the same day. If that doesn't tell you something about whether those moves back then made any sense I don't know what else could be done to prove that you guys are wrong.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Personally, I believe some players may be a better fit for SVG's Rocketball system than others. 

Vince Carter has developed into a solid long-range shooter over his career, but his forte was more creating off the dribble. He's a solid passer, but he's not really a playmaker.

Rashard Lewis is a strong outside shooter, but he shouldn't have been chained to the 3-point line. He definitely shouldn't have been playing power forward.

The emphasis should be more on great shooters who can create their own shot secondarily. Obviously, guys like Ray Allen, Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki are great shooters who can create on their own. But their greatest skill is shooting and scoring from range with great efficiency and low to modest volume. And if the logic was Orlando didn't want to crowd Dwight Howard in the paint, then none of these guys really need to set up shop down low to get going.

Another guy who would have been great at power forward if he was five to seven years younger is Rasheed Wallace. A guy with post moves, but also could stretch the floor with his shooting. Wallace also had the length to defend the likes of Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan.

In hindsight, Orlando would have been better off going after Lewis' teammate in Seattle, Allen, in 2007. The Magic already had Hedo Turkoglu at small forward and have had no answer at shooting guard during the SVG era. Allen can score in bunches and from range with marginal space and opening and can handle the ball if needed.

IMO, I feel this next set of trades will blow up in Orlando's face. In addition to Gilbert Arenas' baggage and injury history, he's a volume shooter and scorer. Jason Richardson is cut in the mode of Carter -- yeah, he can shoot with range but his primary game is slashing. Not quite the right fit for SVG ball, IMO.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> In his final year in Seattle (2006-07), Rashard Lewis had a career-high 16.8 shots per game with 6.5 shots per game from 3-point land. So 39 percent of his shots came from downtown.
> 
> In his first year in Orlando (2007-08), his shot attempts went to 14 per game -- his lowest average since his fourth season, 2001-02. But his number of 3-pointers per game actually went up to 6.8, meaning 49 percent of his shots came from downtown.
> 
> ...


his shots went down for an obvious reason: more talent around him

and he got older and the Magic dont run as much as the Sonics did - so he doesnt finish as much as used to

but his shot selection really hasnt changed as much as you're indicating - if you look at his peak years on 82games he just doesnt have much of inside game at all - in his last season with the Sonics 20% of Lewis's shots were considered "inside" - compare that to Ray Allen for the same season: 19% - do you want to tell me about Shuttlesworth's inside game now?


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> his shots went down for an obvious reason: more talent around him
> 
> and he got older and the Magic dont run as much as the Sonics did - so he doesnt finish as much as used to
> 
> but his shot selection really hasnt changed as much as you're indicating - if you look at his peak years on 82games he just doesnt have much of inside game at all - in his last season with the Sonics 20% of Lewis's shots were considered "inside"


I guess if you call a team with Dwight Howard and ... um, Jameer Nelson ... and Hedo Turkoglu playing the role of a point forward a more talented team, sure. Not denying Howard's talent, but Ray Allen wasn't exactly chopped liver in Seattle and Seattle Ray-Ray was a more prolific scorer than Howard. And Turkoglu was basically a taller version of Brent Barry.

Or you can look at the reality that a higher percentage of Lewis' shots were 3-point shots in Orlando than in Seattle, a team that was more perimeter-oriented. Literally, 50 percent of Lewis' shots in three-plus years in Orlando were from beyond the arc. In Seattle, he had more touches and his 3-point attempts was no more than 40 percent of his shots in even his biggest bombing years.

In nine years in Seattle, Lewis attempted more than 300 3-pointers in a season once (432, 2004-05). In three full seasons in Orlando, he attempted 553, 554 and 423 3-pointers.

His field goal percentage went down every year in Orlando (he matched his current .455 FG% clip once, then came .439, .435 and .415). 

He got to the free-throw line considerably less in Orlando than he did in Seattle -- like 35% percent less vs. his final five years in Seattle. 

And he got to Orlando at the ripe old age of 28, which is generally around when players are or entering their prime. These drops in Lewis' numbers happened the second he got there, so you have to say SVG Rocketball had a major impact in the results.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> :2ti:
> 
> You're irrational. Glaring holes in the front court? What holes? Dont you remember we let Hedo walk so we could get that guy, Brandon Bass? A better player than Hedo...
> 
> The only hole on the roster right now is backup center. The weakest position on the roster is SF. What kind of resources are you anticipating will be spent on a backup C, that's more important than retaining an 18ppg scorer tho?


Your frontcourt outside of Dwight Howard consists of Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson, Daniel Orton, Malik Allen, and Earl Clark. When Dwight Howard picks up that 3rd foul 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter you'll know what I'm talking about.



> Idk, who was it? My position has been that a 3yr deal wasn't crippling anyone.


When you pay a player that sort of money he is bound to be in your plans. You don't pay a guy 6+ mil a year and then go out and get more guys that play his position. Not when you have glaring holes in your front court. Again, we'll agree to disagree about whether frontcourt depth is a weakness. Everyone else seems to see it my way, you're naturally slower so you'll understand next year when it actually happens. By that I mean when Orlando lets J-Rich go so that they can use that money on some backup bigs.



> You're stance is that the Magic wanted to go out and get Hedo back, but that they dont realize the ship has sailed on him... I'm saying that our GM is dumb if that is his thought process. You're saying that i'm dumb, for think our GM is dumb, for thinking that Hedo is the long lost elixir to success lol. Whatever.
> 
> I believe that we liked JRich, and getting Hedo is convenient since he knows our system and has been decent in it, and is a better ballhandler than MP... If the plan is just to get Hedo and let JRich walk, then this is all a waste of time and Dwight is leaving in 2 years. They have to actually believe that JRich can be a key piece to plug next to Dwight, otherwise this trade is a fail. Maybe it is, but there's no way to decide that @ this moment and I doubt that is the thought process of the GM. It's possible JRich walks, but I highly doubt that it is the intent right now for him is to walk. The intent im sure is that he will be a key cog to a contending team...


J-Rich isn't much of an upgrade over VC. It certainly doesn't make any sense to give up Gortat and a first round pick for that to happen. Granted the Suns wanted Hedo moved because he wasn't fitting in but the trade never would've happened if Orlando didn't want Hedo back. Your GM would be really dumb if he felt that getting J-Rich for VC is worth giving up Gortat/1st plus picking up Hedo's overpaid contract.

Moreover, theres no telling where J-Rich would sign. He's an UFA this offseason and while Orlando may be willing to sign him it's still his decision where he wants to play next year. Which goes back to the last point, why exactly would Orlando want to give up assets in order to acquire a guy that might not even be there for more than half a season?

Just give it up. It was for Hedo and that's the main reason for the trade. It's doesn't make any sense just to get J-Rich when you already have VC and Arenas coming in.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> I guess if you call a team with Dwight Howard and ... um, Jameer Nelson ... and Hedo Turkoglu playing the role of a point forward a more talented team, sure.




starters on 06-07 Sonics Wilcox, Ridnour, Collison, Lewis, Allen - Allen missed 27 games and yet the next season when he joins Orlando Lewis only takes 3 less shots per






> Not denying Howard's talent, but Ray Allen wasn't exactly chopped liver in Seattle and Seattle Ray-Ray was a more prolific scorer than Howard. And Turkoglu was basically a taller version of Brent Barry.


Allen missed 27 games and Barry wasnt on the Sonics in Lewis's last season - Lewis takes 3 less shots the next season when he joins the Magic going from a 31 win team to a 52 win is 'not chopped liver'



> Or you can look at the reality that a higher percentage of Lewis' shots were 3-point shots in Orlando than in Seattle,


the 'reality' is that in 06-07 while he was on the Sonics 80% of Lewis's shots were from 'outside' (as per 82games) and in 07-08 once he joined the Magic 81% of his shots were from outside - that's virtually no change


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Orlando may be stuck with this team for the next couple of years. Gilbert Arenas' deal has another $80 million left on it, and I doubt with his gimpy knee he is going to exercise his player option in 2012-13.

Hedo Turkoglu has a three-year deal worth $31 million, with a player option for $12.2 million in 2013-14. Considering he looks like a role player now, I really doubt he will exercise that.

The Magic has J.J. Reddick on the books for $20 million for the next three years.

Even with Jason Richardson's $14.4 million coming off this season, the Magic still will have a payroll of $74.8 million next season.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

No "may be" about it. A cap strapped team can do a million trades but they're usually never going to get out of that space if they're still trying to contend.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> starters on 06-07 Sonics Wilcox, Ridnour, Collison, Lewis, Allen - Allen missed 27 games and yet the next season when he joins Orlando Lewis only takes 3 less shots per game.


A year, mind you, where Ray Allen averaged a career high 26.4 points per game and had his customary numbers and All-Star Game performance in 2006-07. And you're knocking an injury-riddled Seattle for going 31-51 in 2006-07, but yet you're ignoring Orlando (whom you called a better team with more talented teammates) went 40-42 in the weak East. 

In his first year in Orlando, Rashard Lewis is taking three shots less per game than his final year in Seattle. But yet his 3-point attempts went up from 387 in 2006-07 to a whopping 553 in his first season in Orlando in 2007-08.

I don't know about you, but taking fewer shots per game overall while seeing a 43 percent increase in 3-pointers attempted in a year does sound like a marked difference in Orlando's system vs. Seattle's. That's not "business as usual." He surely didn't age quickly in a year, so you can't use the "he got older" logic.

FWIW, I was talking about Seattle's teams in general during Lewis' salad days (hence, the Brent Barry reference). Not the 2006-07 season in particular.



e-monk said:


> the 'reality' is that in 06-07 while he was on the Sonics 80% of Lewis's shots were from 'outside' (as per 82games) and in 07-08 once he joined the Magic 81% of his shots were from outside - that's virtually no change.


It doesn't explain any of the other stats I mentioned on Lewis. Not advanced metrics, but actual stats based on play. It doesn't explain the dramatic increase in 3-pointers taken, the fewer shots per game, the higher percentage of Lewis' shots taken from distance in Orlando vs. Seattle, the lower shooting percentage, the fewer free-throw attempts per game.

It wasn't "business as usual" with Lewis, or with Orlando. SVG changed the Magic to a team emulating Rocketball, and the Magic and Lewis saw dramatic increases in their 3-point shooting attempts. Half of Lewis' attempts came from downtown in his three-plus years there. Part of the reason Orlando went after him was because he was a strong outside shooter, but SVG Magicball distorted his game to where he was primarily a 3-point shooter.

Lewis' 3-point percentage stayed consistent, but a much greater percentage of his shots came from there vs. in Seattle. It defintely played a factor in his other numbers, not to mention playing power forward (which exposed him on both ends of the floor).


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

There's certainly a lot of talk regarding Rashard Lewis and very little talk about the biggest unknown in this trade. Gilbert Arenas. I want to know how good he is.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

If you're talking about the guy who once Tweeted that he was going to run his car off a bridge and commit suicide because he was so upset, then that tells you everyone you need to know about Gilbert Arenas.

Think Dennis Rodman, Terrell Owens, Ron Artest: A talented player with a lot of baggage, a sense of self entitlement and person who loves to create drama.

At his best, Arenas is some cross between Allen Iverson and Baron Davis. When he was healthy, he was one of the best guards in the NBA. But the lengthy injuries and the suspension have taken away three years and he doesn't perform at the same level he once did as an all-NBA player.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Duck34234 said:


> There's certainly a lot of talk regarding Rashard Lewis and very little talk about the biggest unknown in this trade. Gilbert Arenas. I want to know how good he is.


If he stays healthy and keeps his mind straight he brings more to the table than Vince and Shard combined. The problem is odds are either his knees or his mind will give out before his contract runs out.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> Your frontcourt outside of Dwight Howard consists of Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson, Daniel Orton, Malik Allen, and Earl Clark. When Dwight Howard picks up that 3rd foul 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter you'll know what I'm talking about.


Like I said, the backup center is the only hole. Bass and Anderson are fine at PF, and Clark has potential to maybe be somethin. I dont think anyone would argue that...



> When you pay a player that sort of money he is bound to be in your plans. You don't pay a guy 6+ mil a year and then go out and get more guys that play his position. Not when you have glaring holes in your front court. Again, we'll agree to disagree about whether frontcourt depth is a weakness. Everyone else seems to see it my way, you're naturally slower so you'll understand next year when it actually happens. By that I mean when Orlando lets J-Rich go so that they can use that money on some backup bigs.


We need a backup center, that's not saying anything that isn't already obvious... We dont need a starting center, we dont need a starting pf, we dont need a backup pf... We need a backup center. You're acting like the entire frontcourt is a hole... I already said in another thread we could use more depth up front, and proposed trading Jameer if need-be(a guy i like), but it's not gonna take extensive dollars to find a backup player in the summer... I think anyone who has followed ORL knew trading Gortat was real possibilty ever since we inked his deal... 

There's a difference between needing a backup center, and saying that the frontcourt is a 'gaping hole'. The latter is just preposterous, and no one has co-signed you on that. Signing JRich and getting a backup center will be seperate issues. One shouldn't have anything to do with other.. We have the best starting center in the league, why prioritize a backup over an impact starter? Please explain why that position should be a fiscal priority. 



> As
> J-Rich isn't much of an upgrade over VC. It certainly doesn't make any sense to give up Gortat and a first round pick for that to happen. Granted the Suns wanted Hedo moved because he wasn't fitting in but the trade never would've happened if Orlando didn't want Hedo back. Your GM would be really dumb if he felt that getting J-Rich for VC is worth giving up Gortat/1st plus picking up Hedo's overpaid contract.


JRich is younger than VC, and is his own person mentally. Hedo is younger too. We are more likely to want to extend a 30yr old JRich than we are a 34 yr old VC at this point, that's a reason we would do it.. It's getting something for a guy who is gonna expire. Also it's likely that Pheonix demanded Gortat, otherwise they would have no motive to want to do this trade.. Being that VC is still owed $4mil next year and JRich is a true expiring, we had to give them incentive. Hedo is stinking up the joint in Phoenix, im sure the Magic compromised on taking him back in with his albatross since he had his best years here. I doubt the object was to obtain Hedo at all costs tho... But if that's how you feel, great.



> Moreover, theres no telling where J-Rich would sign. He's an UFA this offseason and while Orlando may be willing to sign him it's still his decision where he wants to play next year. Which goes back to the last point, why exactly would Orlando want to give up assets in order to acquire a guy that might not even be there for more than half a season?
> 
> Just give it up. It was for Hedo and that's the main reason for the trade. It's doesn't make any sense just to get J-Rich when you already have VC and Arenas coming in.


Because playing on a contender w/ Dwight is funner than playing in most other places? He's getting older and maybe wants to chase a ring? Magic and Otis feel confident that if they want him they can keep him? Otis has known him & Gil since he was in GState, im sure he has a feel here. I dont see why you would put more value in a 32 yr old Hedo than in 30yr old Jason Richardson. Hedo is a part of the deal, but letting go of JRich I dont see as part of the plan... Not unless he sinks up the joint, which i dont think is part of the plan tho... There is nothing to give up. We want Hedo cuz he can be another ball handler, not because we missed his precence so vastly that we couldn't do w/o... It was just a situation where he was available, and is a fit, so we did it.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> Like I said, the backup center is the only hole. Bass and Anderson are fine at PF, and Clark has potential to maybe be somethin. I dont think anyone would argue that...


Do you keep a straight face when you say something like this?

Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are fine at PF? In what universe? They're outclassed by at least 2 levels when going up against the Celtics or Lakers. Even the Bulls with a healthy Boozer might be too much for the duo to handle. Theres a reason why Orlando had to play Lewis all these years. Magic never had any true starting caliber big to play next to Dwight.



> JRich is younger than VC, and is his own person mentally. Hedo is younger too. We are more likely to want to extend a 30yr old JRich than we are a 34 yr old VC at this point, that's a reason we would do it..


JRich is also considered less of a player than VC. The guy averaged 15 and 16 points the last 2 years and is clearly pushing hard this year for a contract.



> It's getting something for a guy who is gonna expire.


By getting someone who is also expiring and giving up your backup center and a first round pick. Makes a lot of sense.



> Because playing on a contender w/ Dwight is funner than playing in most other places? He's getting older and maybe wants to chase a ring? Magic and Otis feel confident that if they want him they can keep him? Otis has known him & Gil since he was in GState, im sure he has a feel here. I dont see why you would put more value in a 32 yr old Hedo than in 30yr old Jason Richardson. Hedo is a part of the deal, but letting go of JRich I dont see as part of the plan... Not unless he sinks up the joint, which i dont think is part of the plan tho... There is nothing to give up. We want Hedo cuz he can be another ball handler, not because we missed his precence so vastly that we couldn't do w/o... It was just a situation where he was available, and is a fit, so we did it.


You still don't get it. Unless J-Rich signs an extension tomorrow nobody knows where he will be. Why do you think teams are so reluctant to get Melo? Melo *might* sign an extension with the team but unless he signs it you're not going to see any team (New York included) to trade for him unless he agrees to sign an extension. What if J-Rich leaves at the end of his contract? Does Orlando get a refund for Gortat and 1st? Of course not.

Again, I've already said repeatedly that you seem to be naturally slower than most other posters around here. You refused to believe that Shard was a bad fit until your GM shipped him out and you refused to believe that Orlando would be better with Hedo than Vince until your GM shipped out Vince and brought Hedo back. I guess you're not going to have any foresight regarding the J-Rich situation either. Perhaps in 6 month when what I am suggesting now comes true you can figure some new illogical reasoning for why Orlando didn't keep J-Rich. It'll also be interesting to see how your front court ended up being a problem in the playoffs the same way how your playmaking ability became a problem after Hedo left just as everyone except you predicted.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> Do you keep a straight face when you say something like this?
> 
> Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are fine at PF? In what universe? They're outclassed by at least 2 levels when going up against the Celtics or Lakers. Even the Bulls with a healthy Boozer might be too much for the duo to handle. Theres a reason why Orlando had to play Lewis all these years. Magic never had any true starting caliber big to play next to Dwight.


But we still have Dwight... He didn't go anywhere.




> JRich is also considered less of a player than VC. The guy averaged 15 and 16 points the last 2 years and is clearly pushing hard this year for a contract.


He's less talented all-around, but hopefully fits the team better. I'll be honest im not very familiar with his game. I hear he plays a Ray Allen type of game, and plays tough. We can always use toughness and finishing ability. I think VC was a good player this year tho, so u'd have to be pretty damn good to be better than VC. It's just VC is too casual with his game sometimes.



> By getting someone who is also expiring and giving up your backup center and a first round pick. Makes a lot of sense.


VC is 34, and not in our future. With Miami making moves, we were not good enough anymore with the former team. JRich is only 30 and buys more time than VC. Arenas is only 28. It does make sense to re-sign 30yr old JRich as part of your core, whereas it doesnt make very much sense to resign 34yr old Vince. Hedo is 32, but he is a complementary piece to fill roster. It does make perfect sense to give up Gortat and a 1st if we intend on keeping Richardson... For some reason you seem to think we want to let him walk... 



> You still don't get it. Unless J-Rich signs an extension tomorrow nobody knows where he will be. Why do you think teams are so reluctant to get Melo? Melo *might* sign an extension with the team but unless he signs it you're not going to see any team (New York included) to trade for him unless he agrees to sign an extension. What if J-Rich leaves at the end of his contract? Does Orlando get a refund for Gortat and 1st? Of course not.


Um, can u quit making obvious statements? Obviously no one know's what the future holds. That's the obvious point i've been trying to make to you. There's not really any reason to believe one way or the other what the Magic(or JRich) will do. Magic i'm sure gave up picks n such because they think JRich can work out here. You seem to already believe he is out the door and we only want Hedo out of all this. Hedo is not as great as he seems to be in your mind. Even when Toronto got him, you were all over the nuts. Just hop off the nuts pls. He is a cool customer, but damn, i get tired of seeing dudes name so much. He's really not that important. 

And Magic probably wouldve did this same deal for Melo if they were able to... We are close enough to winning, to where players like Melo would probably stay with us if they were already here. Denver probly wants more than Gortat, MP, & late 1st round pick for Melo though.



> Again, I've already said repeatedly that you seem to be naturally slower than most other posters around here. You refused to believe that Shard was a bad fit until your GM shipped him out and you refused to believe that Orlando would be better with Hedo than Vince until your GM shipped out Vince and brought Hedo back. I guess you're not going to have any foresight regarding the J-Rich situation either. Perhaps in 6 month when what I am suggesting now comes true you can figure some new illogical reasoning for why Orlando didn't keep J-Rich. It'll also be interesting to see how your front court ended up being a problem in the playoffs the same way how your playmaking ability became a problem after Hedo left just as everyone except you predicted.


How was Shard a bad fit? We were a 40 win team when he got here, and won 52+ games every year with him here... Please, stick the teams you know. I dont tell you about how players on your team do and dont fit. You are clearly ignorant to logical thought regarding this team. Hedo is not better than Vince for this team mano a mano. But this wasn't a straight up trade. Vince 4 Hedo straight up wouldve been a horrific blunder, and pretty much a joke. It's more like we're swapping VC 4 Arenas, Lewis 4 Hedo, MP Gortat + 1st 4 JRich. Talent wise, value 4 value, that is more like what it was. This team is trying to win a championship. 

Obviously you dont even read what i say in my posts, you just keep re-stating u're psuedo-irrational theories. Ive said backup center is an issue, just that our frontcourt is not a 'gaping hole'. You seem not to understand the difference or the meaning in the words you use. It's not going to take alot of resources to find a backup center in the summer.. Whether or not we get one by the playoffs, i never said we would address it by then. What we do with JRich all depends on how he performs, and how the team does in the playoffs. There's no way to know what we will do with him at this moment which i said in one of my 1st posts. I dont know why want to make this all about Hedo, or what you're obsession is with him. Dude is ok, but damn, most ppl see this as the Magic looking at an oppurtunity to get firepower to keep pace with the Heat/C's. Letting go of JRich is not ideal if the goal is to win a championship, which is why I dont subscribe to your Hedo-centric theory. Obviously anything is possible in FA, i just dont subscribe to your specific train of thought regarding this whole mess.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> But we still have Dwight... He didn't go anywhere.


Go on?



> Um, can u quit making obvious statements? Obviously no one know's what the future holds. That's the obvious point i've been trying to make to you. There's not really any reason to believe one way or the other what the Magic(or JRich) will do. Magic i'm sure gave up picks n such because they think JRich can work out here. You seem to already believe he is out the door and we only want Hedo out of all this. Hedo is not as great as he seems to be in your mind. Even when Toronto got him, you were all over the nuts. Just hop off the nuts pls. He is a cool customer, but damn, i get tired of seeing dudes name so much. He's really not that important.
> 
> And Magic probably wouldve did this same deal for Melo if they were able to... We are close enough to winning, to where players like Melo would probably stay with us if they were already here. Denver probly wants more than Gortat, MP, & late 1st round pick for Melo though.


I feel like I'm talking to a child here.

Orlando already gave up assets to, according to you, acquire someone who they are unsure of whether or not they can even re-sign. My stance all along was the trade was to acquire Hedo Turkoglu and not give up Gortat/1st/Vince in order to "upgrade" into J-Rich. If Otis Smith isn't fascinated with Turkoglu then this trade never would've happened. 



> How was Shard a bad fit? We were a 40 win team when he got here, and won 52+ games every year with him here... Please, stick the teams you know. I dont tell you about how players on your team do and dont fit. You are clearly ignorant to logical thought regarding this team. Hedo is not better than Vince for this team mano a mano. But this wasn't a straight up trade. Vince 4 Hedo straight up wouldve been a horrific blunder, and pretty much a joke. It's more like we're swapping VC 4 Arenas, Lewis 4 Hedo, MP Gortat + 1st 4 JRich. Talent wise, value 4 value, that is more like what it was. This team is trying to win a championship.


If he fitted perfectly then why in the world did Orlando trade him? The fact that they traded him for a guy that nobody even wanted to touch in Arenas shows you what kind of value that Shard has within the organization. They are so desperate to get rid of him that they would rather risk taking in a guy who's injury prone, a mental case, and has an extra year on his contract. Stop acting like Orlando got Arenas because Arenas was the type of guy they needed . Arenas was the only player that they can get with Lewis and that's why the trade was made.

And stop with combining all those trades as if one had to be made without the other. Let's revisit what actually happened shall we?

Let's say that Orlando traded Shard for Arenas and stopped right there. You end up with

Dwight
Bass
Vince
Arenas
Nelson

Gortat
Pietrus

instead of

Dwight
Bass
Jrich
Arenas
Nelson

Hedo

If Hedo is such an afterthought, is there really a difference between having J-Rich and Vince especially when you factor in Gortat? That's why your logic fails. Hedo was the reason for the trade because if he wasn't there is absolutely no reason for Orlando to make that trade.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=magicdeals-101218

Go ahead and read up on some analysis regarding the deal.

These "Pseudo-logic" you speak of just happens to be the views of some very popular sportswriters.


----------



## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*


























lol


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Will Rashard start on the Wiz?


----------



## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

if i hadnt checked it, i would not have believed this is actually a photo they picked for their frontpage...

seriously, they couldnt find a better pic???


----------



## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

they made him seem as if he was some sort of star player or something, something rashard clearly is not.


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

He looks like playing for the Wizards makes him want to cry.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Gil is excited....not sure if that's good or bad. Watching those interviews, I felt like I saw that attention whore show up again, on the other he could just be ecstatic to start afresh, I'll go with the latter.

They need a backup C. But one thing is for sure, they'll be exciting.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

That looks like a DUI mugshot...foreshadowing?


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=magicdeals-101218
> 
> Go ahead and read up on some analysis regarding the deal.
> 
> These "Pseudo-logic" you speak of just happens to be the views of some very popular sportswriters.


That's one train of thought speculators can chose to hold, but I dont think it is the thought process that Otis Smith approached the situation with. I dont know why you seem to think you understand this team so well. Cleary you subscribe to popular opinion as validation? I probably follow this team closer than that writer does, so why should I look to him for validation? Because he is popular?? I'd rather take what Otis Smith and Stan said themselves as validation...

http://www.nba.com/magic/video/originals/



seifer0406 said:


> I feel like I'm talking to a child here.
> 
> Orlando already gave up assets to, according to you, acquire someone who they are unsure of whether or not they can even re-sign. My stance all along was the trade was to acquire Hedo Turkoglu and not give up Gortat/1st/Vince in order to "upgrade" into J-Rich. If Otis Smith isn't fascinated with Turkoglu then this trade never would've happened.


This trade doesn't happen unless we get all 3 guys. Like I said, pls hop-off turks nutz... Pheonix doesn't even like Turkoglu, why would we give up Vince, MP, Gortat, and 1st to get a guy that the team/fans aren't even fond of? Meanwhile alot of folks in Pheonix love JRich... My thought process is that they wanted incentive to let go of JRich, not that they needed incentive to give up Hedo and his salary...




> If he fitted perfectly then why in the world did Orlando trade him? The fact that they traded him for a guy that nobody even wanted to touch in Arenas shows you what kind of value that Shard has within the organization. They are so desperate to get rid of him that they would rather risk taking in a guy who's injury prone, a mental case, and has an extra year on his contract. Stop acting like Orlando got Arenas because Arenas was the type of guy they needed . Arenas was the only player that they can get with Lewis and that's why the trade was made.


Because we wanted to shake things up. We were still a good-to-great team that couldve won 55+ games and been a top 3 seed. But at the end of the day, the goal is championship. This team wasn't good enough to beat a stacked Miami or Boston team as-was. I dont think I ever said Lewis was a 'perfect fit', but he was a damn nice piece that did alot for the franchise. Just in terms of stability and poise, he helped us take the next step as a franchise in his 3 years here. Three of the franchises best years... Finals and us being a top 3 seed in the east for 3 years in a row. You're ignorant if you say we were desperate to get rid of him, just listen to what SVG and Magic fans have to say, if u want to know the truth.

But, this team needs a spark. It's clear that we had fallen to 3rd fiddle in the east and were aging.. That is not gonna be good enough if we want to keep Dwight. It's more about change for the sake of change and trying to get younger, than it is about anything else imo. I agree, it is akin to a panic move tho. Im not even sure we got better, but we'll have to just wait n see a few games 1st. Until then, it's impossible know what the future moves will be. 



> And stop with combining all those trades as if one had to be made without the other. Let's revisit what actually happened shall we?
> 
> Let's say that Orlando traded Shard for Arenas and stopped right there. You end up with
> 
> ...


What about if we just did the Pheonix trade:

Dwight
Lewis
Hedo
JRich
Nelson

If we wanted to recreate 09, wouldn't we have just kept it at that? If we subscribe to your train of thought, this would've been Otis Smiths utopia. You can paint the picture in your mind however you want to do it. But clearly you're infatuated with Hedo. We wouldn't have done the trade if JRich or Arenas aren't involved either, so you haven't really proven anything. Otis pretty much said as much himself in the PC that these were essentially one trade, and he tried to do them as close together as possible. All the guys were apart of the trade, so I dont understand why your so attatched to this concept of us just wanting Hedo, and admitting failure, and this that and the next... 

Im not happy or mad that hedo's back, im indifferent. To me he is just a piece that was available, and was a fit. We like him cuz he can put it on the floor a litle bit more and knows the system, and with trading Lewis + MP, we needed size and starter @ the 3. We dont do one trade without the other. I think it was Otis or Stan who said the goal of these moves was to go in the direction of players who can put the ball on the floor a little more and help Jameer create and facilitate... Guys like MP and Shard weren't great ballhandlers. Anything about admitting failure, I dont see where that is the case. It's about shaking things up and trying different was to get better.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> That's some logic you're sporting HB. I wasn't aware that somebody is making more than Lewis in Orlando.
> 
> Washington plays a free flowing run and gun game with their current mix of players. They don't have much of a half court offense and I don't certainly don't see Lewis posting up all that often even if he will now have the height advantage playing the 3 full time. Since nobody on the Wizards can hit an outside shot I would expect Lewis to fill that role even more than people think.


The Wizards give Yi post up opportunities. Lewis is going to get his chance to post up. Of the course, we'll see if he still has that ability.


----------



## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Interested to see Gilbert playing for Orlando. Hope he gets back on track and plays to his full potential.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Najee said:


> The mistakes Orlando made with Rashard Lewis, more specifically:
> 
> 1.) Signing him to a six-year, $118 deal, which is way too much for a guy who IMO should be no more than the No. 3 man on a potential contender.
> 
> ...


Was it really a mistake? Orlando did make it to the NBA Finals and a conference finals which isn't shabby for a team that didn't make it out of the 1st round. Orlando did have a chance to win a title with that move. I wonder how much revenue the Magic generated with that move.  Without Lewis, I don't think that Orlando would have made it past the 2nd round in 2009.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

What you're forgetting is if they hadn't spent it on him they'd spend it somewhere else. I don't think Lewis was so vital that they wouldn't be able to find a comparable piece for even half that money.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

And people forget. They originally were going to sign him outright for just over $90M and they pushed for 6th yr for god knows what reason. Sonics only took a 2nd rd pick back.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

The magic weren't going to win dick with Vince Carter as their first option. They now got TWO guys better at scoring than he was in J-Rich and Arenas. People keep looking at as bringing back Turkeyglue but I think getting a guy that can score the rock with wincing in pain or getting looks of horror gifed was the big key. Only problem is now they have Dwight playing dress up and Gilbert writing dumb blogs. Still too much goofiness and no killer instinct.

Hedo at the very least can replace what Lewis was giving them. And really this talk about how bad the team will be if Dwight goes down and they have no Gortat is irrelevant. If Dwight goes down they aren't winning anyways.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Blu said:


> That's one train of thought speculators can chose to hold, but I dont think it is the thought process that Otis Smith approached the situation with. I dont know why you seem to think you understand this team so well. Cleary you subscribe to popular opinion as validation? I probably follow this team closer than that writer does, so why should I look to him for validation? Because he is popular?? I'd rather take what Otis Smith and Stan said themselves as validation...
> 
> http://www.nba.com/magic/video/originals/


Oh so now it's a popular opinion? I only posted the link because it seems like my view is completely unheard of to you.

And like I said, find me one GM/coach who didn't have positive things to say for an incoming player. You have to be thick as a brick wall to think that Otis Smith wouldn't hype up a guy considering he made the decision to bring him in.



> This trade doesn't happen unless we get all 3 guys. Like I said, pls hop-off turks nutz... Pheonix doesn't even like Turkoglu, why would we give up Vince, MP, Gortat, and 1st to get a guy that the team/fans aren't even fond of? Meanwhile alot of folks in Pheonix love JRich... My thought process is that they wanted incentive to let go of JRich, not that they needed incentive to give up Hedo and his salary...


Phoenix wanted to get rid of Turkoglu
Orlando wanted Turkoglu

That's why the trade happened. I have already explained why. It's a dumb trade otherwise because J Rich and Vince are a wash and Gortat/1st is worth way more than Earl Clark. In fact, I don't even think Earl Clark will find playtime on the Magic because he really hasn't shown us anything since coming into the league.



> Because we wanted to shake things up. We were still a good-to-great team that couldve won 55+ games and been a top 3 seed. But at the end of the day, the goal is championship. This team wasn't good enough to beat a stacked Miami or Boston team as-was. I dont think I ever said Lewis was a 'perfect fit', but he was a damn nice piece that did alot for the franchise. Just in terms of stability and poise, he helped us take the next step as a franchise in his 3 years here. Three of the franchises best years... Finals and us being a top 3 seed in the east for 3 years in a row. You're ignorant if you say we were desperate to get rid of him, just listen to what SVG and Magic fans have to say, if u want to know the truth.
> 
> But, this team needs a spark. It's clear that we had fallen to 3rd fiddle in the east and were aging.. That is not gonna be good enough if we want to keep Dwight. It's more about change for the sake of change and trying to get younger, than it is about anything else imo. I agree, it is akin to a panic move tho. Im not even sure we got better, but we'll have to just wait n see a few games 1st. Until then, it's impossible know what the future moves will be.


That's why it's a bad fit. He didn't fit. You seem to not understand what a perfect fit means. A team is always trying to improve themselves to reach the championship level. If a player is in the way of the team trying to achieve the goal then he needs to be moved. That's what Lewis was.



> What about if we just did the Pheonix trade:
> 
> Dwight
> Lewis
> ...


What is your point really? That the lineup above wouldn't have worked? Tell us why it wouldn't work? You said that both trades needed to be made and one couldn't be made without the other. Yet you fail to show why the above lineup wouldn't work as oppose to the current lineup or the lineup where only the Wizards trade was made.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Jamel Irief said:


> The magic weren't going to win dick with Vince Carter as their first option. They now got TWO guys better at scoring than he was in J-Rich and Arenas. People keep looking at as bringing back Turkeyglue but I think getting a guy that can score the rock with wincing in pain or getting looks of horror gifed was the big key. Only problem is now they have Dwight playing dress up and Gilbert writing dumb blogs. Still too much goofiness and no killer instinct.


I don't know about now but prime Gilbert definitely had that killer instinct, he used to go off in the fourth quarter. 

I remember him going toe to toe with Kobe.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Dump Nelson now. You can try to get a backup for Howard, but getting rid of Nelson is the big thing.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Oh and can we now officially pronounce the VC Orlando expirment an abject failure? Should have kept Courtney Lee.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



futuristxen said:


> Oh and can we now officially pronounce the VC Orlando expirment an abject failure? Should have kept Courtney Lee.


Without a doubt.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



futuristxen said:


> Oh and can we now officially pronounce the VC Orlando expirment an abject failure? Should have kept Courtney Lee.


The Vince Carter experiment was absolutely a failure, yes. Not keeping Courtney Lee is not exactly a franchise crippling move though. He's not very good.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



futuristxen said:


> Will Rashard start on the Wiz?


you could start on the Wiz as long as you dont play PG and Wall is healthy (red flag?) and I dont even know you


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



f22egl said:


> Was it really a mistake? Orlando did make it to the NBA Finals and a conference finals which isn't shabby for a team that didn't make it out of the 1st round. Orlando did have a chance to win a title with that move. I wonder how much revenue the Magic generated with that move. Without Lewis, I don't think that Orlando would have made it past the 2nd round in 2009.


It was a mistake to agree to a sign-and-trade that garnered Rashard Lewis that much money. In addition to setting some unrealistic expectations for a guy who was the team's third best player, it easily made him a target for criticism.

Getting Lewis was not a mistake. Chaining him to the 3-point line, playing him out of position at power forward and his contract were the inherent problems.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> Wall is healthy (red flag?)


Starting to think that as well. Usually it's not a good sign when a young player has this many injuries early on.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Wall is a guy that likes to attack the rim, bone bruises and such will happen but he's a tough kid.

He does have tendinitis that looks like it'll end up being chronic, but other than that he'll be fine.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



futuristxen said:


> Oh and can we now officially pronounce the VC Orlando expirment an abject failure? Should have kept Courtney Lee.


Again, I think it's more about Boston having KG in 2010 that allowed for the Magic to get past Boston in the first place although VC was horrid in that series. Would have been interesting to see a Magic/Cavs series in 2010.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> Wall is a guy that likes to attack the rim, bone bruises and such will happen but he's a tough kid.
> 
> He does have tendinitis that looks like it'll end up being chronic, but other than that he'll be fine.


Wall has a bone bruise which can heal over time. Of course, the crappy Wizards medical staff misdiagnosed it at first as tendinitis.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



f22egl said:


> Wall has a bone bruise which can heal over time. Of course, the crappy Wizards medical staff misdiagnosed it at first as tendinitis.


I know the current situation I was referring to the previous bouts of tendinitis he had. Maybe I shouldn't have framed it like a long term disease or something but my point is it looks like something that he's easily vulnerable too.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



e-monk said:


> you could start on the Wiz as long as you dont play PG and Wall is healthy (red flag?) and I dont even know you


Lewis certainly won't start over Blatche at the power foward position and I doubt the Wizards go small at the 4 and 5 with Lewis and Blatche. 

Lewis could start at the small forward position but when asked that question Flip Saunders said he wants to wait it out. Josh Howard is also coming back from a knee injury and could be vying for that starting job as well. I could also see Al Thornton starting over Lewis because of his defense. 

There's also the possibility of the Wizards going with Young at small forward with a backcourt of Wall and Hinrich.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> I know the current situation I was referring to the previous bouts of tendinitis he had. Maybe I shouldn't have framed it like a long term disease or something but my point is it looks like something that he's easily vulnerable too.


The current situation with a bone bruise and "his bouts with tendonitis" are the same. The Wizards medical staff had misdiagnosed the injury as tedonitis and wall tried to play through it but the only cure for Wall's current predicament is rest. http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2010-12-21/wall-wizards-concerned-about-return-to-the-court

Agree that John Wall is prone to injuries with his style of play. Kobe probably gave the best advice to John Wall for his long term future- "Buy Nikes".


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



f22egl said:


> The current situation with a bone bruise and "his bouts with tendonitis" are the same. The Wizards medical staff had misdiagnosed the injury as tedonitis and wall tried to play through it but the only cure for Wall's current predicament is rest. http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2010-12-21/wall-wizards-concerned-about-return-to-the-court
> 
> Agree that John Wall is prone to injuries with his style of play. Kobe probably gave the best advice to John Wall for his long term future- "Buy Nikes".





> Flip Saunders said Tuesday, "If every guy in our league sat out a week because of tendinitis, we might have to forfeit some games, because everybody has some kind of tendinitis, just the way they are. I don't think, with his situation, that he's ever going to be painfree from that, so what we're going to do is monitor him."


That's the quote I was referring to when discussing the "chronic" tendinitis.

And I was looking for another quote I saw, but Wall said something to the effect of "I played with tendinitis earlier in the (pre)season, I know this wasn't it.", which further made me assume that's something we're always going to hear about.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™ said:


> That's the quote I was referring to when discussing the "chronic" tendinitis.
> 
> And I was looking for another quote I saw, but Wall said something to the effect of "I played with tendinitis earlier in the (pre)season, I know this wasn't it.", which further made me assume that's something we're always going to hear about.


It's a bone bruise. Wall went to his own doctor, had a MRI, and they discovered it was a bone bruise this past Friday. The Wizards medical staff called it tendinotis and didn't dig deeper into the injury. Again, the Wizards medical staff has a history of misdiagnosing injuries and rushing them back too soon; (Richard Hamilton, Jerry Stackhouse, Jarvis Hayes, Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, Blatche, etc).


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



f22egl said:


> It's a bone bruise. Wall went to his own doctor, had a MRI, and they discovered it was a bone bruise this past Friday. The Wizards medical staff called it tendinotis and didn't dig deeper into the injury. Again, the Wizards medical staff has a history of misdiagnosing injuries and rushing them back too soon; (Richard Hamilton, Jerry Stackhouse, Jarvis Hayes, Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, Blatche, etc).


Like I said, I already knew it was misdiagnosed *this time*, but when I inferred chronic tendinitis I was talking about his situation before this latest incident, and not the bone bruise. Wall himself said he knew the difference between the actual tendinitis he's dealing with and this situation. 

I'm going to listen to him before I believe he's had one bone bruise for 5 months and just now realized it. 



Wall said:


> "I was like, 'If it's tendinitis, I would've played through it.' Tendinitis is very painful, *but I played through it summer league, I play through it now. I couldn't do no squats or I couldn't really run or I couldn't cut, so I knew it had to be something more than that."*


http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26564225

Now let's let it go because that has nothing to do with this thread.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I was actually at the Grand Canyon the day all the trades went down. Almost shat myself when I finally returned to civilization and checked the news on my phone.

I am happy to see Carter and Lewis gone. IMO Carter's excuse ridden personality had rubbed off on the team and was affecting everyone. And Lewis has turned into barely a role player which mentally with that contract is going to destroy his career. Pietrus I am fairly indifferent about because he only showed up on occasion. Gortat was one of the best backups in the NBA but he Orlando was never going to give him the minutes to take advantage of that.

I think the trades, in combination, bring Orlando back to real contention. The most important piece of everything is Hedo. I tried telling people in the past his importance to this team. He just fits this team and fits playing with Dwight. On any other team in the league his value is not that high, even though it got him a nice contract, but on Orlando he is a key piece. And on top of his basketball abilities he brings the opposite attitude of Carter... a brash and possibly unearned confidence that rubs off of the whole team. Orlando used to be known for their big late game comebacks even when they were down... where did that go when Hedo left and Carter came in? It was nowhere to be found.

JRich is currently a better, younger version of Carter without the bad attitude and without trying to live up to the past of being a superstar (ie, not as high maintenance).

Arenas.... he is a risk. No question. But if Mike Vick can make a comeback and become an MVP candidate, why can't Arenas reemerge? He just made a couple dumb decisions, he didn't even kill any dogs. He's obviously got some erratic mental issues at times BUT if there was anywhere he could be revitalized I think it would be Orlando. The team has two solid and high character leaders in Jameer and Dwight. He was brought in with an old buddy and teammate in JRich, and he has a very strong relationship with Otis. There seems to be an agreement when he came in that he'd basically be Orlando's primary 6th man getting backup PG mins and some mins at SG and he seems to have embraced that thus far. If that continues Arenas can really be valuable to Orlando... just as he showed in the San Antonio game. 

The trades also give Orlando a real rotation. There were too many guys wanting, deserving, and expecting to play before. Now as far as I am concerned if Duhon, JWill, QRich, Malik Allen never hit the floor, who cares. 

Orlando will need to score another big and I sincerely hope that it does not come at the expense of Redick or Ryan Anderson.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



JNice said:


> I was actually at the Grand Canyon the day all the trades went down. Almost shat myself when I finally returned to civilization and checked the news on my phone.
> 
> I am happy to see Carter and Lewis gone. IMO Carter's excuse ridden personality had rubbed off on the team and was affecting everyone. And Lewis has turned into barely a role player which mentally with that contract is going to destroy his career. Pietrus I am fairly indifferent about because he only showed up on occasion. Gortat was one of the best backups in the NBA but he Orlando was never going to give him the minutes to take advantage of that.
> 
> ...


Spot on assessment of the trades. I also don't think Otis would trade Redick or Anderson in the inevitable deal for a backup big for the reasons you just mentioned -- we have Duhon and Q-Rich (and the other scrubs) to dangle out there. Not that they're anything special, but they'll be enough to bring back Tony Battie, Ronny Turiaf or any of the other names we're hearing thrown out there. The Magic don't need anything special, they just need a big body who can play 10-15 minutes a night and hold down the fort.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Yeah, Turk could have worked in Phoenix had they played him in the SF spot and not the PF spot. He was just too small and not powerful enough to play that role. Bad management on the Suns part (a running theme over the past 6 years)


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



hobojoe said:


> Spot on assessment of the trades. I also don't think Otis would trade Redick or Anderson in the inevitable deal for a backup big for the reasons you just mentioned -- we have Duhon and Q-Rich (and the other scrubs) to dangle out there. Not that they're anything special, but they'll be enough to bring back Tony Battie, Ronny Turiaf or any of the other names we're hearing thrown out there. The Magic don't need anything special, they just need a big body who can play 10-15 minutes a night and hold down the fort.


Turiaf isn't going to get moved unless the Knicks get a worthwhile player in return, he's actually in D'antoni's rotation and they're looking to make the playoffs and have a respectable showing once they're in. A guy like Battie, a serviceable veteran on a bad team who doesn't figure into their future, is much more likely.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Bogg said:


> Turiaf isn't going to get moved unless the Knicks get a worthwhile player in return, he's actually in D'antoni's rotation and they're looking to make the playoffs and have a respectable showing once they're in. A guy like Battie, a serviceable veteran on a bad team who doesn't figure into their future, is much more likely.


Agreed. I think it's safe to say Turiaf is/was the first option with Battie being Plan B. I'm guessing there's no legs to the Turiaf rumor and the Battie deal will get done sooner rather than later. Prior to the Magic's trades, Battie had 5 DNP-CD's in the last 8 games. He played a little bit (albeit garbage time) against Philadelphia, but then in their most recent game against Boston played over 25 minutes in a close game and put up solid numbers (10 pts, 6 rebs, 4 blks). To me that screams of Philly giving Orlando a look at him so they know he can still move and do the job before finishing the deal.


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## IMPECCABLE (Dec 24, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I was actually thinking of a guy like Dalembert ..how's he doing? portland has alot of serviceable bigs too.


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## MagicMania (Dec 26, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I guess Dalembert would be alright if he promised not to be an idiot and try to contribute on offense.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



MagicMania said:


> I guess Dalembert would be alright if he promised not to be an idiot and try to contribute on offense.


Welcome to the site!


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## MagicMania (Dec 26, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Thanks. I'll try to contribute


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



MagicMania said:


> Thanks. I'll try to contribute


Just what we needed: another Magic fan!


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I have no problem with the Sixers trading Battie. I just hope they don't bring back years in contract. If they have something that comes off the books this season, I'd go for it. Definitely don't want Duhon.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Coatesvillain said:


> I have no problem with the Sixers trading Battie. I just hope they don't bring back years in contract. If they have something that comes off the books this season, I'd go for it. Definitely don't want Duhon.


Tony Battie straight up for Jason Williams or Malik Allen works. All three are on one year deals, Orlando lets Philly take their pick between the two and throws some cash or a 2nd rounder their way. To me that makes the most sense, assuming Otis isn't going to trade Redick and go for a big man on the next tier (which he shouldn't). Battie has played for Van Gundy in Orlando, he's backed up Howard before. He knows what we need him to do. He'll throw his weight around down low and hit the open midrange jumper. Simple deal, get it done.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



PauloCatarino said:


> Just what we needed: another Magic fan!


Lol, why you mad tho? We building an army over here, u guys can't bully us no more.

:2ti:


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



IMPECCABLE said:


> I was actually thinking of a guy like Dalembert ..how's he doing? portland has alot of serviceable bigs too.


Dalembert's contract is an albatross. He's making over $13mil this season


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

^Dalembert is a FA this summer, we can get him for cheap then.. Right now we just need a body who can move.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I'd avoid Dalembert. He's a prima donna. Orlando needs someone who will play solid D, rebound and maybe occasionally hit a midrange jumper. A guy like Kurt Thomas or Battie. 

Hopefully rumors of JRich for Diaw are untrue. That'd be a bad move IMO.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

How big is Diaw? I thought he was a SF/PF... Doesn't seem like he adds what we would need.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



JNice said:


> I'd avoid Dalembert. He's a prima donna. Orlando needs someone who will play solid D, rebound and maybe occasionally hit a midrange jumper. A guy like Kurt Thomas or Battie.
> 
> Hopefully rumors of JRich for Diaw are untrue. That'd be a bad move IMO.


That would be an awful deal in my opinion, I can't believe it's even being thrown out there. Simply not what they need.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Orlando need to look for a 7 footer not a 6'9 tweener like Diaw.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Enough with the off-topic posts. Take it to the Magic forum.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Gotta say this though, Hedo has looked better than I thought. I thought he was done for, but it seems the Magic system was tailor made for him.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Hedo is playing better than in 08-09... He looks in better condition and swifter, on both ends. Seems really happy to be back n cherishing it with smart play. Hope he keeps it up. He and JRich playing like this will be crucial... I'm starting to believe again!


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Stick to PM's if you have any issues.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

You can also stick to PM's if you have an issue.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

:laugh: Classic


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Adam said:


> Enough with the off-topic posts. Take it to the Magic forum.


Hmmm, seem to be pretty on-topic to me. 

Anyway, Orlando should probably stand pat for the moment. Earl Clark doesn't look too bad. Unless Orlando can deal one of the guys that doesn't play - like Duhon, JWill, QRich... i'd say they stand pat.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Gotta say this though, Hedo has looked better than I thought. I thought he was done for, but it seems the Magic system was tailor made for him.


It's not the system. It's trust and opportunity. Hedo is at his best when you give him a decent helping of having the ball in his hands, plenty of pick n rolls, and you put some trust in him. He had some success in Sac-town when they did that and then they went away from it. He's very skilled and talented. He just needs someone to let him play. Obviously in Phoenix that isn't going to happen; no reason to put the ball in his hands instead of Nash... he's not quite that good.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Earl Clark can't get off the bench for Phoenix and now Orlando is incorporating his skills. Some systems work for players, while others don't. I swear it's amazing.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Looks like Earl Clark has a lot of potential. It looks like he can be a very good SF in the league. He is used as a PF now but he can be developed as a SF, his size is great, he can shoot the ball, athletic and quick enough to defend perimeter players...


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HKF said:


> Earl Clark can't get off the bench for Phoenix and now Orlando is incorporating his skills. Some systems work for players, while others don't. I swear it's amazing.


Yep, it is one of the biggest factors in a young players development. There are very few LeBrons in the NBA, most players need the right opportunity, the right system and a trusting coaching staff. The difference between good and bad organizations is the ability to deliver those three things to their players and if they can't...find a player they can give them. Bad organizations hold on to talented young players they have no clue how to develop or do not have the opportunity available to enhance that players development.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Babir said:


> Looks like Earl Clark has a lot of potential. It looks like he can be a very good SF in the league. He is used as a PF now but he can be developed as a SF, his size is great, he can shoot the ball, athletic and quick enough to defend perimeter players...


yep, he's got the potential to be up there. The Suns management really screwed up by signing three SF in the off season to completely bury Clark and his confidence. 

EDIT: I bet if the Suns had traded Amare last year, they probably could have gotten Love and Jefferson for him. I hate the Suns management.


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## IMPECCABLE (Dec 24, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Sounds like the magic are interested in camby. Camby sounds great and all but he'll be making 21 million over the next 2 seasons, I don't know what the magic are willing to give up for him. It doesn't sound like he's happy about the ideas of getting traded, so he might not be a happy camper in orlando. Otis please don't do anything stupid.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/12/29/camby-to-orlando-intrigues/?ls=iref:nbahpt1


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*






Too funny


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



IMPECCABLE said:


> Sounds like the magic are interested in camby. Camby sounds great and all but he'll be making 21 million over the next 2 seasons, I don't know what the magic are willing to give up for him. It doesn't sound like he's happy about the ideas of getting traded, so he might not be a happy camper in orlando. Otis please don't do anything stupid.
> 
> http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/12/29/camby-to-orlando-intrigues/?ls=iref:nbahpt1


A. I don't see the pieces available to get Camby
B. I don't think he can find enough minutes. He would jump over Bass in the rotation but I don't know if that's warranted or makes them better. It's not always about depth because only 5 people can play oncourt at a time and Dwight's not going anywhere. 
C. I wouldn't bother with Camby, at his last two stops he's moved his family to the place and said he wanted to end his career there, but he keeps getting traded. He's not the ring chaser type.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Maybe the suns send some lopez plus filler for camby can get a deal done.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Camby only makes sense for a contender. Lopez would only be traded in a package that netted a star.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dissonance said:


> Camby only makes sense for a contender. Lopez would only be traded in a package that netted a star.


suns could trade anyone except for hill and nash and improve. Get aldridge and camby for whatever is needed.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

What for? The run is over.

Anyways, so I got a good look at Rashard Lewis against the Pacers today, and true to what I said all he did was shoot jumpers. He got in the paint one time that I saw, hesitated, and threw up an airball as he tried to split two defenders. Then there's a possession where TJ Ford ends up on him and he still jacks up a 3. 

Can we stop acting like he's some sort of useful post player now?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Dre™;6446332 said:


> What for? The run is over.
> 
> Anyways, so I got a good look at Rashard Lewis against the Pacers today, and true to what I said all he did was shoot jumpers. He got in the paint one time that I saw, hesitated, and threw up an airball as he tried to split two defenders. Then there's a possession where TJ Ford ends up on him and he still jacks up a 3.
> 
> Can we stop acting like he's some sort of useful post player now?


Well obviously it's due to Washington having Blatche and Mcgee. In Orlando there was only 1 post up threat and now there are 2, you do the math. If the team needed Lewis to post up or stop the North Korean's nuclear testing or reduce global warming or make Heidi Montag's album go platinum of course Lewis can do it. But because the team doesn't need him to do these things therefore he's not doing it. Again, he could do all those things but he chooses not to, therefore he's not overpaid at all.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Yeah I don't see how we could get Camby. Another thing I don't understand is why are so many Magic fans itching to trade JRich? He gives us stability at SG and some even want to trade him Camby, LOL! I pray Otis isn't that stupid. IMO JRich will probably be offered a contract extension soon from us, probably a Hedo type deal making around 10 million a year.

The Magic will get their backup big man, but they aren't going to give away much to get one. They currently have two TEs. One is worth 6.3 million and the other is 1.8 million. They can also dangle QRich and Duhon out there, although I'm not sure if they will get many bites. 

All in all the Magic will probably find some one trying to dump salary near the trade deadline and the Magic will be their god send since they have those TEs. Also Magic fans have to remember that the Magic have two centers in Europe who's contracts just ended this year so they are likely coming over this summer to the Magic and they also have Orton. Needless to say, the big man we get before the trade deadline will be a rental at best.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

After 20 games, I think we can say that all 3 teams are still where they were before.

Orlando - Hedo has been good but not great. He still can create for others but it's clear that he isn't what he was 2 years ago. Just like many predicted losing Rashard Lewis meant absolutely nothing for the Magic as Ryan Anderson is doing exactly what Lewis did and then some. J-Rich has been reduced to nothing more than a spot up shooter and Gilbert Arenas is a ticking time bomb that can blow at any time. My prediction is when Orlando exits in the 2nd round (or even the 1st if the Hawks somehow pull it off) it will be time for Gilbert to strike by means of the media. Arenas should change his nickname to Agent 18 because that's going to be his minute per game for the foreseeable future.

Washington - Gilbert Arenas wasn't playing that great before the trade so the Wizards actually got an upgrade from a production standpoint in Rashard Lewis. The only problem is that the team is still going nowhere and we now know that you can replace the 20 million dollar man with Ryan Anderson who I think is still making an hourly wage. Nick Young, Andray Blatche are all me-first type of players and as long as those guys are on the team the Wizards won't be breaking 30 wins.

Phoenix - Since the team has no hope of making the playoffs I think it's safe to say that the best part of the trade for them is getting rid of Hedo Turkoglu's contract. But then again remember they traded Barbosa's expiring contract to acquire Hedo Turkoglu so don't get too excited for the Suns. Vince is still Vince, a spot up shooter with an occasional drive. Gortat and Robin Lopez are fighting a battle of mediocrity and I'm curious to see when Phoenix will realize that neither are that great. They are switching those 2 in and out of the starting lineup and it's just funny to see that both of them starts to suck when given consistent minutes. Overall it's still a good trade for them since Gortat's contract is much more reasonable than Hedo's contract at least for the Suns. The problem is they wasted a lot of money on guys like Josh Childress and Hakim Warrick so they've set themselves up for financial hell going into the rebuilding years.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

lol Warrick and Jchills deals will not put them in financial hell. Still a lot can happen, but after next yr, they have 28M on the books. Their deals are cheap and fairly easy to move.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I said guys *like* Hakim Warrick and Josh Childress, by that I mean there are more to those 2. Gortat, Channing Fyre, Dudley are all signed to 3+ years. That's a lot of commitment to role players that have limited use on a lottery team.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



seifer0406 said:


> After 20 games, I think we can say that all 3 teams are still where they were before.
> 
> Orlando - Hedo has been good but not great. He still can create for others but it's clear that he isn't what he was 2 years ago. Just like many predicted losing Rashard Lewis meant absolutely nothing for the Magic as Ryan Anderson is doing exactly what Lewis did and then some. J-Rich has been reduced to nothing more than a spot up shooter and Gilbert Arenas is a ticking time bomb that can blow at any time. My prediction is when Orlando exits in the 2nd round (or even the 1st if the Hawks somehow pull it off) it will be time for Gilbert to strike by means of the media. Arenas should change his nickname to Agent 18 because that's going to be his minute per game for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...


Still where they were? I don't think so.  Orlando has been much better since the trades (and after the first couple games with the new guys).


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

They were a .615 team before and they are .640 now. Convert that to wins then they have improved a grand total of 2 wins.

I watched the past 10 Orlando games and I fail to see the difference beyond having an extra facilitator in Hedo. Ryan Anderson and J Rich have replaced Vince and Lewis by doing pretty everything those 2 did before. Arenas is playing a very limited role and it's a matter of time before he open his big mouth on SVG.

Overall Orlando is still where they were before the trade. They have the upper hand against any team in the East not named the Celtics or Heat. The trade did nothing to change that and solved some of their old problems by creating new ones.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Lol. What incredibly detailed analysis. Yes, they have barely changed... Well besides becoming the #1 offense in the league without losing really any ground defensively. And as mediocre as Arenas has been he's still providing at least twice the output of Duhon and is capable of dropping 20 real quick. In fact every Orlando rotation player can now drop 20 any given night. Points are up, fast break points are up, assists are way up. It's a totally different team. 

I don't know if Orlando can beat the Celts or Miami but they are right there with them now. Before the trades they had no chance in hell.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



JNice said:


> Lol. What incredibly detailed analysis. Yes, they have barely changed... Well besides becoming the #1 offense in the league without losing really any ground defensively. And as mediocre as Arenas has been he's still providing at least twice the output of Duhon and is capable of dropping 20 real quick. In fact every Orlando rotation player can now drop 20 any given night. Points are up, fast break points are up, assists are way up. It's a totally different team.
> 
> I don't know if Orlando can beat the Celts or Miami but they are right there with them now. Before the trades they had no chance in hell.


Arenas scored over 20 just once since coming over to Orlando. Saying that he is performing better than Chris Duhon isn't really saying much. How about he's performing worse than Chase Budinger or Toney Douglas?

I thought you guys have learned from past years that this sort of smallball offense is fools gold. How many times have we heard the excuse "If only our outside shooters didn't go cold" or "The XXX team is lucky that our shooters missed all the wide open 3s?" When your entire offense is build on 3pt shooting you're bound to go cold in the playoffs because guys get nervous in the playoffs. Orlando has done nothing to correct that through these trades and has become even more one dimensional than before.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Haters goin' hate. The Magic don't win because of 3 pt shooting, they win when they play good defense. Defense is a product of teamwork, not individual excellence. Get with the times, the myth that the Magic are a run and gun team became extinct two years ago.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

For Orlando the trade was about the team's attitude and morale more than the value of the players coming and going out. SVG is one of those guys like Larry Brown (or whiny little bitch as I prefer to call him). It's just a matter of time before certain guys just get their fill of him and stop listening to him. They either had to get rid of those guys or get rid of Stan. They had to make a move to change the perception within the Organization. If they hadn't they'd be in a death spiral right now.

The Phoenix trade worked well...I think the Wizards trade is sort of blah right now. It only becomes significant if Arenas takes his guns out in the locker room or does something else really detrimental. Really you could suspend him for the rest of the season and who would really care.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Hedo and Jrich have been great pickups for the Magic. Arenas not so much. All that talk of finding a slasher and go to scorer has still not been addressed.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Arenas is a) not as athletic anymore and b) not going to be useful as a 6th man. 

This situation is an example of how much people underrate the difference between scorers being starters vs. sixth men. He said himself it's hard to get a rhythm when you're looking over your back. In DC he had the luxury of setting people up to get into his own game, now all of a sudden he has to be a kamikaze. 

That's part of the reason AI never adjusted, and it's a legit point.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Arenas and Hedo looked very old in a loss to Bulls and they are going to be with the team next few years on a terrible deals...

once again I think Otis had to keep Rashard Lewis, he had less years (Arenas has 30!!! millions more) on his contract and could be much better off the bench for the Magic, he plays great for the Wizards right now...


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Seems like the Arenas trade was one trade too far.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Otis Smith has to be the worst GM in the past few years imo...even worse than PHX, Danny Ferry and David Kahn. He's had the best big in the league, an incredibly passionate and gracious owner (deep pockets), good location, new arena, great fans, championship hopes....and he still hasn't been able to sign a real co-star player that can make plays and create his own shot consistently! Thats only been their main weakness ever since they emerged as a potential contender...

All these years and the Magic's second best player is an undersized SG, Jameer Nelson? He's basically Mo Williams 2.0, why would a superstar stick around for that? 

The Magic definitely need to make moves, they've been in desperation mode and they still don't have a real backup for Dwight. Bass is a blackhole that seems like an injury waiting to happen since he has a bad knee and really should be traded. Even when healthy I don't think Bass and Anderson are going to cut it against the other contender's frontcourts anyway.

:whatever:


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Hedo and Jrich have been great pickups for the Magic. Arenas not so much. All that talk of finding a slasher and go to scorer has still not been addressed.


Man, Vince Carter has been a godsend for my Suns. It's like watching the Raptors in 2000 again! I can't believe that the Suns organization could screw this up. Man, they royally effed up the team.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Pump Bacon said:


> Otis Smith has to be the worst GM in the past few years imo...even worse than PHX, Danny Ferry and David Kahn. He's had the best big in the league, an incredibly passionate and gracious owner (deep pockets), good location, new arena, great fans, championship hopes....and he still hasn't been able to sign a real co-star player that can make plays and create his own shot consistently! Thats only been their main weakness ever since they emerged as a potential contender...
> 
> All these years and the Magic's second best player is an undersized SG, Jameer Nelson? He's basically Mo Williams 2.0, why would a superstar stick around for that?
> 
> ...


Yeah it really is turning into Cavaliers 2.0 down there. Can't be hard to understand that the model is two superstars or more= Title.


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## IMPECCABLE (Dec 24, 2010)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

Gilbert Arenas has admitted that his troublesome knee is bothering him due to the "weather". Turk? he's inconsistent, but what else is new? he's had more good games than bad though. he's done a lot better than I'd imagine. J-rich? he's done okay. I don't think he's been the player the magic though he was going to be. Not a go-to player at all. He's basically just an all-star form of jj redick. Clark? he can really blossom for a sorry team. He reminds me of a second coming of Nowitzki, or Randolph.

All in all, only time will tell if the trade was succesful or not. The Magic have looked good and bad, so it's still a toss up.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

But if Dwight goes somewhere else watch him be the disloyal punk who doesn't want to compete


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*

I doubt all the ppl playing armchair gm could do any better than Otis has done over the last 4 years... With that said, no he's not perfect. Im not too mad cuz I understand only one team win it every year, and we have been better than most. We have had 3 of the best 4 years in franchise history. It's hard to just _expect_ success over franchises like LA & Boston, when those are fully loaded and have much more experience. Granted, this is not to make excuses this is just in fairness to the reality. 

Sure I wouldn't have given up Lewis, but that's only because his contract was shorter. I dont think I care enough about Lewis vs Gilbert skillwise to make it about impact. Both can impact a game, but I think that trade was more about change for the sake of change than anything else. We had just lost 6 out 7 games or something, so whatever. I dont think it will effect us on the court as much as it might off the court(assuming Dwight doesn't re-sign in 2012)


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



Hyperion said:


> Man, Vince Carter has been a godsend for my Suns. It's like watching the Raptors in 2000 again! I can't believe that the Suns organization could screw this up. Man, they royally effed up the team.


Lol but I never said Vince was doing great in Phoenix BUT he's definitely been playing better than the guy they said was supposed to replace him in Orlando. At least thats the BS they sold about that trade. Getting back a so called slasher/finisher. Or would you rather have Arenas? The Suns really don't have a legit 4, that's why they are hurting. And let's get something straight, they were sub .500 with Jrich on the team.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



IMPECCABLE said:


> Gilbert Arenas has admitted that his troublesome knee is bothering him due to the "weather". Turk? he's inconsistent, but what else is new? he's had more good games than bad though. he's done a lot better than I'd imagine. J-rich? he's done okay. I don't think he's been the player the magic though he was going to be. Not a go-to player at all. He's basically just an all-star form of jj redick. Clark? he can really blossom for a sorry team. He reminds me of a second coming of Nowitzki, or Randolph.
> 
> All in all, only time will tell if the trade was succesful or not. The Magic have looked good and bad, so it's still a toss up.


Due to the weather? The Magic are in Florida no?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



futuristxen said:


> Yeah it really is turning into Cavaliers 2.0 down there. Can't be hard to understand that the model is two superstars or more= Title.


Yeah. My homie was all depressed the other day and I told him "the model for happiness is to date a supermodel and be a millionaire" some people just don't think.

Magic need to trade Duhon for Chris Paul.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Magic trade Carter/Gortat/Pietrus/pick to Suns for Jrich/Hedo; deal Lewis for Are*



HB said:


> Lol but I never said Vince was doing great in Phoenix BUT he's definitely been playing better than the guy they said was supposed to replace him in Orlando. At least thats the BS they sold about that trade. Getting back a so called slasher/finisher. Or would you rather have Arenas? The Suns really don't have a legit 4, that's why they are hurting. And let's get something straight, they were sub .500 with Jrich on the team.


J Rich with Nash played better than Vince with Nash, so let's get that straight as well. Vince and J Rich are pretty even when it comes to playing for SVG, which is exactly why the trade helped neither team. Like I said before, this trade was about Hedo Turkoglu. J Rich and Vince are a wash production wise and neither will help you do what you couldn't do before.

The Suns on the other hand are done. With Gortat playing better they could swing Robin Lopez for some win now talent but I don't see why they would do it when they only have 1 more year of Nash left.


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