# GS really wants Bosh: make it happen



## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

according to ESPN, GS offered Anthony Randolph and Beidrins for Bosh at the deadline.

Also according to ESPN, GS is going to keep trying to pry Bosh away during the offseason.

To me, its a no brainer, you make the deal for Biedrins, Randolph, and try to get a 1st rounder in the deal (toss in a 2nd the other way)

Another option would be to get Biedrins/Belinelli/1st rounder (we get way more euro)

1. We finally get a good centre, and a damn good defensive one at that - Biedrins avg'd 13/11.5 and 1.5 blocks this year. This allows Bargs to play PF, face it, Andrea is not adequate at centre. We know hes capable of 20 ppg now, but he doesnt seem to be more than a 6.5 RPG type player. Put him at PF, watch him average 20-22 PPG, 6 or 7 RPG on a team without Bosh. 

2. We pick up some depth for the players we lose in the offseason. Randolph is an excellent young PF, who has plus rebounding skills. Would be a great 1st big man off the bench, and maybe groom him for our starting PF if/when Bargs gets too expensive.

3. The 1st round pick = another potentially good player. Add that to our high pick this year and we should be able to add a couple of good young players to our team. One maybe even star calibre.

Bottom line is, Biedrins is very young (22) and is averaging 13/11.5 in only 30 mins per game. He is one of the top centres in the game. We deal from a position of strength as we have the perfect replacement for Bosh in Bargnani.

Do it BC, our team will be better right away, and down the road.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

anthony randolph, drooooooooooooolsssss


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I would also want their first round pick.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Add to this trade Jamal Crawford coming to Raps while sending Kapono and Banks to GS.


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## Raptor (Feb 26, 2004)

What about Stephen Jackson?, He's good defend


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

I would love to see this happen. Randolph was my favorite player from this years draft. But why do we need Biedrins? How is he a "real" center. He is skinnier that Bargnaini. He is like Bargnaini with less offence. All he would do is take minutes away from Jake Vosuskul, HAHAHAHA


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Biedrins is good defensively. No, he can't bang with Shaq, but who can? Nobody. And I really like Randolph.

Do that deal if GS gives up their 1st rounder this year. If the Raptors can somehow get rid of Banks in the deal, all the better.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

That doesn't sound bad. I'd be very tempted to take that deal if i was Bryan Colangelo. I've always really liked Biedrins.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Biedrins and Bargnani might complement each other well.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

that sounds like a good trade if you know Bosh is leaving. only problem is i dont think they can trade their first this year, i think they sent it (heavily protected) to the Nets next year, though it might be the year after. i think you could swap picks though, move up a bit. take someone like willie warden.

Calderon/Warden/Randolph/Bargnani/Biedrins looks like a pretty solid core.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Chris Bosh
6-10 PF from Georgia Tech
22.7 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 2.5 apg in 37.9 minutes

Jason Kapono
6-8 SF from UCLA
8.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 23.6 minutes
Outgoing Players
Stephen Jackson
6-8 SF / SG from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
20.7 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 6.5 apg in 39.7 minutes
Anthony Randolph
6-10 PF from LSU
6.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.6 apg in 14.5 minutes
Andris Biedrins
6-11 C from Latvia (Foreign)
12.3 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.1 minutes


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

Bosh + Kapono + Banks 

for

Anthony Randolph + 1st round or jCrawford or sJackson

very nicee


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

mo76 said:


> I would love to see this happen. Randolph was my favorite player from this years draft. But why do we need Biedrins? How is he a "real" center. He is skinnier that Bargnaini. He is like Bargnaini with less offence. All he would do is take minutes away from Jake Vosuskul, HAHAHAHA


WTF, the guy averages almost 12 boards and 1.6 blocks per game in only 30 minutes!

How is he not a real centre? Hes one of the best centres in the league!


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

I'd do it so long as its understood that we'd be getting a player in free agency who would pick up the offense that we'd lose with Bosh leaving (cough-Ben Gordon-cough). More importantly for this trade to happen is whether or not Bosh wants to play the next 5-7 years in Golden State since his contract situation gives him an unofficial no trade clause. No team is going to use Bosh as a rent-a-player while giving up significant talent, especially for a team like Golden State.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i don't like trading for players from losing teams. there are exceptions to the rule- like young'ns who haven't developed yet (anthony randolph?)- but otherwise, it just doesn't make any sense, imo.

if the players were worth trading for, their teams wouldn't be perennial losers. i think of jamal crawford- the guy puts up great numbers on terrible teams. maggette, too. is biedrins any different? there's something to be said for acquiring winners and not pursuing fool's gold.

that said, bosh isn't much different. but chris is respected as an all-star around the league, so we can use that to argue that he's one exception to the rule. either way, if we're going to deal the man, i wouldn't want to return tired players who've been losing forever- remember, we'd be dealing chris to change the culture of this team. i'd rather acquire bruce bowen than mike miller if you know what i mean.

peace


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Actually, we would be dealing Chris so that we don't end up with nothing when he leaves next summer. If Colangelo finds a way to keep Bosh in town, then this trade is obviously no good since I'd rather have Bosh over any combination of GS players.

Bosh is not a player that can carry a bum team to the top like Wade/Lebron. If it is up to me I would prefer we get a Wade/Lebron but alas there are only so many of those around in the league. If Bosh is what we have to work with, I think it is still possible to win as long as we fill the team with better players. Colangelo has not done enough to convince me that you can't win with Chris Bosh. In fact, I am more convinced at this point that even Lebron or Wade wouldn't be able to win with the group of bums that BC has assembled over the years.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

firstrounder said:


> WTF, the guy averages almost 12 boards and 1.6 blocks per game in only 30 minutes!
> 
> How is he not a real centre? Hes one of the best centres in the league!


Who else is going to grab rebounds on GS? And if he were "one of the best centers in the league" why would golden state trade him, a 1st rounder and an up and coming prospect for bosh. C holds the highest positional value in the NBA. 
Don't get me wrong, BC probably likes the guy because he would fit into an uptempo system, I'd just rather see Bargaini and Randalph start (if the deal actually happened) with Pops being the first big off the bench. Now,if the raptors want to trade for "one of the best centers in the game" to be the 2nd big off the bench, go for it.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

Ballocks, Beidrins is 22 years old, I hardly think we can call him a perennial loser. He isnt whats wrong with Golden State. He's also no more a "loser" than Bosh is. 

Bosh is likely walking after next season, so if GS offers you Randolph, Beidrins, and a 1st in exchange for Bosh and a 2nd, or Beidrins, Belinelli and a 1st for Bosh you do the deal in a heartbeat, and you send GS a thank you card afterwards.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

mo76 said:


> Who else is going to grab rebounds on GS? And if he were "one of the best centers in the league" why would golden state trade him, a 1st rounder and an up and coming prospect for bosh.


1. Please name me a the 6-7 centres who are clearly better and knock Biedrins out of the top tier. I can come up with only Dwight, Yao and maybe Bynum. Duncan is a PF now for the Spurs. Beidrins and Andrew Bynum (when healthy) sit at the top of the secondary group that encompasses guys like Big Z, Camby, Shaq (all old and gone in a few years) Bogut and Chandler. Brook Lopez will be knocking on the door to that group maybe by next year as well. None of the those guys are better than Beidrins except Bynum, when healthy. I might have forgot someone but not enough guys to knock Beidrins out of the top tier of centres in the league. There is a definite arguement that he is a top 5 centre in the league.

Beidrins averages 18.2 Rebounds per 48 minutes, the 2nd highest rate in the league, and 1.5 blocks in only 30 minutes of action. He is a defensive presence, and he has a nice touch around the basket.

2. Because Bosh is one of the premier PF in the league with more reputation as a star. And because GS would be stupid to do the deal, which is why we should JUMP ALL OVER IT. 




mo76 said:


> Don't get me wrong, BC probably likes the guy because he would fit into an uptempo system, I'd just rather see Bargaini and Randalph start (if the deal actually happened) with Pops being the first big off the bench. Now,if the raptors want to trade for "one of the best centers in the game" to be the 2nd big off the bench, go for it.


Good thing you have nothing to do with running the Raptors. The fact that you would have Beidrins as your "second big off the bench" behind Pops and continue to start Bargs at C and Randolph at PF is just silly.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Listen, i'm fine with the raptors getting Biedrins, im just saying don't let him be the deciding factor in the deal. 
Bargs +Biedrins wouldn't work imo. 
Biedrins is a nice piece, but I don't think our goal should be to have Bargs + Biedrins starting. They both have really bad standing verticals. (= no offensive boards unless they have position)
Oh, and don't fool yourself, pops is going to be getting big minutes next year. I liken his situation to jason maxiel in detroit a couple years ago. He is going to improve over the summer for sure as well.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

ok, u guys have not seen anthony randolph, he is a freak of nature

a longer tayshaun prince but more physical


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> Actually, we would be dealing Chris so that we don't end up with nothing when he leaves next summer. If Colangelo finds a way to keep Bosh in town, then this trade is obviously no good since I'd rather have Bosh over any combination of GS players.
> 
> Bosh is not a player that can carry a bum team to the top like Wade/Lebron. If it is up to me I would prefer we get a Wade/Lebron but alas there are only so many of those around in the league. If Bosh is what we have to work with, I think it is still possible to win as long as we fill the team with better players. Colangelo has not done enough to convince me that you can't win with Chris Bosh. In fact, I am more convinced at this point that even Lebron or Wade wouldn't be able to win with the group of bums that BC has assembled over the years.


i disagree with you. #1, do you honestly think that chris will walk for nothing? i mean, that almost never happens in the league anymore- tracy mcgrady was an exception but that was a different era. the fact that some people are _talking about_ chris leaving changes nothing, imo- i think they're just stuck in the old school of free agency. at the very least i see it as unlikely. as far as i'm concerned, a sign & trade is the worst-case scenario for the raptors. chris bosh, love him or hate him, is simply too considerate. i could be wrong. i seriously doubt it. we'll see. 

#2, i don't see the raps as a "group of bums"- at all. the issue with this team is not a lack of talent, imo- it's been well-chronicled how the whole is less than the sum of the parts. so _why_ is it true? i don't know, but i _can_ tell you that the problem is never caused by a weak group of role players. role players are not powerful enough to bring a team down like that.

i've maintained my opinion for nigh two years: the issue here is not talent, the issue is intangibles.

peace


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

ballocks said:


> i disagree with you. #1, do you honestly think that chris will walk for nothing? i mean, that almost never happens in the league anymore- tracy mcgrady was an exception but that was a different era. the fact that some people are _talking about_ chris leaving changes nothing, imo- i think they're just stuck in the old school of free agency. at the very least i see it as unlikely. as far as i'm concerned, a sign & trade is the worst-case scenario for the raptors. chris bosh, love him or hate him, is simply too considerate. i could be wrong. i seriously doubt it. we'll see.


You are right and you're wrong regarding this. Teams don't lose players for nothing because majority of the time teams will avoid this by making trades - trades like the one we're talkin about right now. Think of it this way, just because everyone drives on the right side of the road doesn't mean that if you decide to drive on the left side all of a sudden, nothing bad will happen to you. Teams avoid losing guys for nothing by making these trades, if you don't make any trade, you might lose guys. T-Mac was a good example, Carlos Boozer would be another one in recent years, Elton Brand just last season. The fact is, teams don't go into off seasons knowing that one of their main guys is potentially leaving. Teams that do that sometimes get burned.

We can agree to disagree on the talents. My view is that in order for a team to win you must divide the responsibility between the stars and the supporting cast. With Lebron and Wade the ratio is probably 75/25 whereas with Bosh you're getting around 60/40. BC has given Bosh about 15-20 at this point therefore I feel that even with Lebron and Wade you will still be missing that 5-10 output from your cast. Until BC can prove that he has given Bosh that 40 or at least 30 and the team still doesn't go anywhere, it's hard to place the majority of the blame on Bosh.

I do feel that our team has improved since getting Marion. But as of now we still do not have a wing player that is capable of creating his own shot. Looking across the league, there isn't another team that is lacking this. It's hard not to knock on our talents when you don't have something that everyone else seem to have.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> You are right and you're wrong regarding this. Teams don't lose players for nothing because majority of the time teams will avoid this by making trades - trades like the one we're talkin about right now. Think of it this way, just because everyone drives on the right side of the road doesn't mean that if you decide to drive on the left side all of a sudden, nothing bad will happen to you. Teams avoid losing guys for nothing by making these trades, if you don't make any trade, you might lose guys. T-Mac was a good example, Carlos Boozer would be another one in recent years. The fact is, teams don't go into off seasons knowing that one of their main guys is potentially leaving. Teams that do that sometimes get burned.
> 
> We can agree to disagree on the talents. My view is that in order for a team to win you must divide the responsibility between the stars and the supporting cast. With Lebron and Wade the ratio is probably 75/25 whereas with Bosh you're getting around 60/40. BC has given Bosh about 15-20 at this point therefore I feel that even with Lebron and Wade you will still be missing that 5-10 output from your cast. Until BC can prove that he has given Bosh that 40 or at least 30 and the team still doesn't go anywhere, it's hard to place the majority of the blame on Bosh.
> 
> I do feel that our team has improved since getting Marion. But as of now we still do not have a wing player that is capable of creating his own shot. Looking across the league, there isn't another team that is lacking this. It's hard not to knock on our talents when you don't have something that everyone else seem to have.


Thats why I think the raptors need Gerald Henderson. When the raptors are playing well, they are a jumpshooting team and don't need a slasher, but could use one when thinks aren't running well. Duke is similar to the raptors in this respect. Perfect fit imo. (Sorry to go OT)


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

The Raptors really need to do all they can to hold onto Bosh.

With $10M in cap space this offseason, a decent lottery pick and a core of Bosh, Calderon and Bargnani, they are actually pretty set.

Draft Gerald Henderson
Sign Allen Iverson to a three-year deal starting at $7M per year
Re-sign Anthony Parker and Joey Graham
Add a backup big man

Jose Calderon...Marcus Banks...Roko Leni Ukic
Allen Iverson...Gerald Henderson
Anthony Parker...Jason Kapono...Joey Graham
Chris Bosh...Kris Humphries...Nathan Jawai
Andrea Bargnani...Free Agent

They are perfectly capable of making this thing work.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

how does the 3 million left after signing Iverson (cancer) allow us to re-up Graham for the raise he'll want, plus afford the lottery pick, plus afford a FA centre?

If we sign Iverson, I dont think I will watch


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

If we are going to have a backcourt of AI and Calderon, we might as well just have the team stay on the offensive side of the court and not bother running back at all.


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## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

Vuchato said:


> that sounds like a good trade if you know Bosh is leaving. only problem is i dont think they can trade their first this year, i think they sent it (heavily protected) to the Nets next year, though it might be the year after. i think you could swap picks though, move up a bit. take someone like willie warden.
> 
> Calderon/Warden/Randolph/Bargnani/Biedrins looks like a pretty solid core.


It's Warren, not Warden.

Regardless, I was also looking at WW as a prime candidate for us to draft this year. Dude can shoot the lights out, create off the bounce, and is a pretty good defender despite being a bit undersized. We can always just shade him onto the lesser offensive wing of the opposing team.

As for the Randolph+Biedrins deal, meh. Biedrins is overrated. He can bang and grab boards, sure, but he's a liability from the free throw line and has a bleak post game. Randolph is the key, but I'm not sure if I'd be willing to part with Bosh for that.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

pass on AI, go after Ben Gordon or JOJO instead, re-sign marion 3 years 15-18 mill, grahem 2 yrs 3.5 mill. What good mainly rebounding C's will be there?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Signing Ben Gordon is a huge liability on the defensive end Raps would really be undersized better off Drafting a SG


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> Signing Ben Gordon is a huge liability on the defensive end Raps would really be undersized better off Drafting a SG


I don't want ben gordon to be taking all the shots here either.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

ok any 6`5 fa SG`s that would be good fits here


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

beidrins is a really good young bigman, but i agree with those that would rather keep bargnani at the 5. i think that's where his greatest missmatch advantage is. his speed and agility vs centres is really good, vs power forwards, a lot of that is lost. a pairing of ab+ab seems to fit on paper but andrea's ability to draw 5s away from the hoop becomes moot as centres will stay in the paint and guard biedrins. another thing about beans that hasn't been mentioned is his defense. defense is a lot more than racking up rebounds. beidrins' d is such that he gets pulled at the end of games and has been progressively losing time to turiaf.

the kid is no scrub, not at all, but i think pairing andrea with randolph leverages the advantages more than bargnani and beans would. and randolph is a pretty good rebounder himself (wright's not so bad, either) and showed good d for a rookie.

another part of not including beidrins in such a deal is that it leaves golden state with a centre that can save bosh from having to play the five and thus increase his likelyhood of extending in the bay, ergo, the trade is more valuable for golden state which can/should yield toronto greater net talent in return.

crawford is a guy that golden state wants gone. his contract expires the same season as kapono, banks, and humphries. if he were the big contract to make the deal work, toronto could have a nice sized cash window in the summer of 2011. and for all his faults, crawford is better than anything we currently have on roster at the 2.

bosh for crawford, randolph, bellineli, pick (i'd like to squeeze wright out of that too, if possible).

golden state would have an awesome starting 5: ellis/jax/maggette/bosh/biedrins — that's a sweet looking lineup. they'd have a very good chance of keeping bosh with that team. and they'd still have some good depth in azubuki, turiaf, etc.

toronto would have calderon/crawford/marion/randolph/bargnani -- scoring wouldn't be a problem. bellineili would help the bench a lot. he'd get a lot of minutes, and might end up beating crawford out of the starting spot. plus we'd potentially have two lottery picks.

i'd be happy with jackson also. he's a good, gritty player. he's versatile and defends well. he'd actually be better for us than crawford. the only problem is the duration of his contract. but it makes for a pretty good starting 5: calderon/jackson/marion/randolph/bargnani. and if marion leaves, jackson can just slide to the 3: calderon/bellineli/jackson/randolph/bargnani

anyway... randolph looked really good this year. in some ways he reminds me of charlie. he's their most promising looking player that's not on a big-money deal (biedrins and ellis are also byc, by the way). gs fans have grown really attached to him. i'd think many would be afraid of trading him for a guy that could potentially bolt, but, imo, getting back a player with his promise is key.


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