# Game #12 - Cavs vs Raptors - Nov 22nd @ 7pm



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

*vs*









*Cleveland Cavaliers (8-3)* *vs.* *Toronto Raptors (2-8)*

*Date:* Wednesday, November 22nd, 2006 
*Where:* Air Canada Center - Toronto, Ontario
*TV:* FSOhio, NBA LP
*Radio:* WTAM 1100
*Time:* 7:00 PM - ET

















































*C:* Zydrunas Ilgauskas (11)
*PF:* Drew Gooden (90)
*SF:* LeBron James (23)
*SG:* David Wesley (4) uke: uke: uke:
*PG:* Eric Snow (20)
























































*SF:* Anthony Parker (18)
*PF:* Jose Garbajosa (15)
*C: * Chris Bosh (4)
*SG:* Fred Jones (20)
*PG:* T.J. Ford (11)


*
Game Notes:*

- T.J. Ford will be a problem with his quickness. Let's all pray that Mike Brown gives Gibson a chance to defend him and earn some minutes.

- Fred Jones also usually has good games against us. He will abuse Wesley so Lebron might have to switch onto him and do the job defensively.

- Raptors are another bad team which means the Cavs will likely build a big lead, get lazy and have to deal with another tough 4th qtr dogfight. This will only be magnified coming off a back-to-back. 

- Will Mike Brown play Shannon or Gibson? Will they get yanked after 1 play?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Is Snow or Jones starting?

Could be a fun game.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^Snow will always be the starter under the Mike Brown regime. DJ has played very well though this year, he will certainly get mins.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

speedythief said:


> Is Snow or Jones starting?
> 
> Could be a fun game.


 Unless he's hurt, Snow will start


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

My Key:

Lebron needs to step up: he's been mediocre and w/o Hughes we aren't going to beat anyone consistently with him playing subpar and Mike Brown's hard on for stiff mediocre veteran guards


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Out of the 11 games this year, I can really only think of maybe the Spurs game where Eric Snow drove me nutz.

He has played under the radar this year, never doing anything excellent, but nothing stupid. He has put up some good statlines (for Eric). I am content with Snow always starting and DJ getting the majority of the minutes anyways. 

I really wonder if Brown will crack that rotation tonight. I hope, because when Larry comes back he will be on the IR.


Scary game tonight, Toronto's record doesnt represent their talents.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Off to a good start.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Raps have a much smaller team than I thought....we should bury them on the boards tonight.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Bad start so far


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Lebron's passing has been razor sharp in the 1st half of games this year 

Raps on fire early..


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Bosh on fire. Need to pound it with Z and Gooden to counter


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Man we need Larry back...


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

We have no chance of winning if Lebron has another bad game. He needs to start working the post instead of firing deep jumpers


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

A Hornet's nest?

More like a Raptor's Nest!

HA!

Could we give less of a **** about this game?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Ughh why the jumpshots Lebron? Blah Bosh with 3. This is looking like a blowout.

I don't care that SNow looks ok for him. Him and Wesley have NO footspeed, we simply look slow with them in there


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

This is such a moody team. It always seems like a cloud is quick to build over the team. Wish the team was more upbeat.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

COme on send a message Brown play the rooks. (Will never happen but hoping)


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> Ughh why the jumpshots Lebron? Blah Bosh with 3. This is looking like a blowout.
> 
> I don't care that SNow looks ok for him. Him and Wesley have NO footspeed, we simply look slow with them in there


The old guys can't play back to backs'


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

ugh, I know it's early. But Lebron looks pretty disinterested in driving early. 

Can the best player in the league take ~40% of the games off?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Snow has no chance against TJ Ford, and Ford knows it


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

**** it, put a small lineup out there and use Lebron on Bosh.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> ugh, I know it's early. But Lebron looks pretty disinterested in driving early.
> 
> Can the best player in the league take ~40% of the games off?


 Ughh offense looks terrible


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

14 down probably 15.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I dont understand these subs: shouldn't AV matchup with Gooden?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> I dont understand these subs: shouldn't AV matchup with Gooden?


 I mean AV on Bosh?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Lebron seems to at least be motivated to play tonight. I think he will turn it on and get us back in the game, we just need the bigs to get going (DREW GOODEN)


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Lebron seems to at least be motivated to play tonight. I think he will turn it on and get us back in the game, we just need the bigs to get going (DREW GOODEN)


He's played differently since the first timeout. I wonder if Mike Brown said something to him. I like going to him in the post a lot.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I would try AV and Gooden together in a game like this. Going to need a lot of energy out there


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Good shot by Pavs. Need some defense here jesus


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Wow our defense and energy level is truly pathetic. Why do we care more than the team??


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

It's a Lebron and a bunch of stiffs playing D right now


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

That 1st qtr might have been the single most pathetic qtr of defense this team has played in 3 years.

Unreal.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Why didn't AV come in there earlier? He's our best help defender adn we're getting killed on D


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Why didn't AV come in there earlier? He's our best help defender adn we're getting killed on D


And most of all, we just need ENERGY on defense.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Gibson in early - Strokes a jumper


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Gibson! woh he's getting playing time.

Dammit we lose the board.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

A point guard hit a shot!!!!!


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Man the Raptors play with a crazy amount of energy.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Z is not going to work here.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Man the Raptors play with a crazy amount of energy.


 Like I said, I would have AV and Gooden together to counter

LOL Z with a good shot after I ragged on him


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Terrible D


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Pioneer10 said:


> Gibson! woh he's getting playing time.



He's as confused as we are. I think he'll be back on the bench coming out of this timeout.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Z stepping up.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I think Damon deserves a lot of credit for bouncing back this year after an off year. I realized this because I've been hoping he's the one taking the shot on offense for about the last 5 possessions. He's played great offensively this year and surprisingly sound defensively.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Come on we need some stops here.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Nice Jones with the 3: need better and consistent D


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Av!!


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I'd like to see us get this down to about 8 at the half.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Gibson is a stud!!


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Can we just start Gibson :wink:


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The Bench's energy has woken us up.

Gibson's been strung out on defense a few times, but seems to be hanging in there. And you can tell he doesn't really know all of the plays that well.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Pioneer10 said:


> Can we just start Gibson :wink:



I wish.

At the very least, can we just give him Wesley's spot, below Pav?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Can we just start Gibson :wink:


Seriously, what more does he need to show?

Sure, he's a little shaky sometimes. Makes some bad passes, struggles against the press, etc. 

But he can shoot. And defend. 

It would be amazing to play 5 on 5 at the offensive end, rather than our 4 on 5 setup with Snow/Wesley.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

Damn, I've never seen Gibson in action, this is my first time seeing him and boy he's quick. 

Garbosa just got pwned by Varejao defensively.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Another good play Z on D


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Finally Bron gets a call.

Gibson plays with alot of confidence, he will be a player :clap:


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

AV lol he's an energizer bunny out there


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Where was this Damon last year?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Andy getting it done


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :cheers:


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Holy Damon


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

D-D-D-DJ-DJ-DJ

Burn down the disco!

Panic in the streets of Toronto!


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

Damon Jones, gracious god, he's on fire lately.

Oh yeah, TIE GAME!


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Brandname said:


> I'd like to see us get this down to about 8 at the half.


or yeah, whatever...


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Mike Brown must have gotten laid last night, loosened it up a bit and playing Gibson. And I love that the kid wasnt scared to shoot.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Damn TJ Ford has some hops...


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Blah free point off that Lebron miscue


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

FT's killed our momentum.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Can't let the Raptors get another cushion. Keep it tied going into halftime.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Our D is getting lax again. Give Toronto credit they got a lot of talent. They seem to have a lot of interchangeable part though: not sure how they're going to put it all together


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

I wonder when Shannon Brown will be on the floor.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

That was an awful last possesion lol.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

4BiddenKnight said:


> I wonder when Shannon Brown will be on the floor.


I suppose with Gibson getting those minutes, Brown is way behind.


Who else dressed if Pollard is not dressed? Ira?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

LBJ to LJ for 3 said:


> I suppose with Gibson getting those minutes, Brown is way behind.
> 
> 
> Who else dressed if Pollard is not dressed? Ira?


 Gibson is more of a natural fit at PG: they both are combo guards but Gibson's size helps defend against quick PG's. There is really no one else on our roster who can do that. If Sasha plays well the Brown is the odd man out.

Keys to the second half: some defense and please limit Snow's and Wesley's minutes


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Good start: tied up


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> Gibson is more of a natural fit at PG: they both are combo guards but Gibson's *size* helps defend against quick PG's. There is really no one else on our roster who can do that. If Sasha plays well the Brown is the odd man out.
> 
> Keys to the second half: some defense and please limit Snow's and Wesley's minutes


Aren't they the same height? I do know one thing, Brown's reach is ridiculous for his size and longer than Gibson's.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The +/- on this lineup is terrible


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

remy23 said:


> Aren't they the same height? I do know one thing, Brown's reach is ridiculous for his size and longer than Gibson's.


 Brown is much heavier though: we'll have to see how it works out but I bet Gibson I think we'll have an easier time with the ultra quick PG's


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

No one cares wehn Snow has the ball on our team or the Raptors


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

As bad as Z was the first few games, he's been equally good the last couple. Especially on defense.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Our frontline has faults but I love how one guy always seems to have a good game whether it is Z, AV, or Gooden.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> No one cares wehn Snow has the ball on our team or the Raptors


Imagine when Gibson is running the point and drilling the open midrange shot instead of Snow :gopray:


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Brown goes to the DJ/Snow backcourt again


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Why are we playing the Eric Snow/Jones backcourt? This never works


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

So frustrating Jones needs people to draw defenders away from him which won't work with him playing next to Snow


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Wow Gibson in again


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Pathetic flop by Calderon, glad the refs didn't fall for it


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Gibson with a nice stroke. Yay!


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Man Gibson is a stud, I don't care what anybody says. He needs more PT


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Gibson would drill those open looks Snow gets all game long. He fits in SO MUCH better with Lebron.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

It would be nice to get Z back in here: he was having a great game.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Joey Graham is killing us


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

It would be a shame to lose this game.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Why is Marshall in the game still? Come on he done nothing and Z was having a good game


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Big play there. Fred Jones always burns us


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

God Jones/Snow backcourt again


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Snow in again, what a surprise he gets a wide open shot.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

We might be running out of gas.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Why did Mike Brown go with the same unit that got blown out in the first quarter? Suprise suprise, they're getting blown out in the fourth quarter.

Snow can't guard any of these guards, and he's got nothing on offense.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

How many times does this lineup have to suck before we don't see it again. Why not play Sasha with Jones


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Brown going with Snow again is killing us. Raps aren't even guarding him and he's getting destroyed by Calderon.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I've not been impressed with Mike Brown's coaching today.

We're not going to win relying heavily on point guards that can't shoot. You just can't win 4 on 5.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

It's like clockwork: Snow goes out and we become competitive


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Why did Graham goal-tend that shot? That was stupid.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Lebron needs to step it up as well: he's been quiet


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Gibson missed two shots that could have won this game. And then lost TJ Ford on defense. Sigh. Rookies.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Man what a terrible loss. I can live with Gibson missing those open looks though, I like his confidence.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

All right... I like that we're playing Gibson. However, I DON'T think he's our go-to-guy in the crunch. He's happy just to be getting PT. Lebron needs to step it up now. It's his time.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Wow. Mike Brown was and is going to be pissed. This team was asleep to start the game, and asleep to end the game. How do you not foul after that?


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

WTH was LeBron thinking letting the garbage around him take so many shots in the 4th qtr?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

The prob is the way the Raps defended Lebron is leaving Gibson/Snow wide open.

They are basically double teaming him all the way out to the three point line. Someone else had to step up and make a play off his pass.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Lebron actually had a nice game 30/7/7

If we need Lebron to do more than that to beat the Raptors, this team is in trouble.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

Mike Brown sure likes Gibson a lot. I think Gibson played 20+ minutes so far today. Gibson sure looks very confident and very sure of himself today. I think Gibson will be given far more playing time than Shannon Brown in the future.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Gibson was fine till the end. Why does Sasha always seem to get the shaft.

Snow and Wesley were terrible out there and I'll throw out that Marshall sucked as well. Brown had some poor lineups and was slow to react.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

This teams losses are predictable. Any team with quick guards will burn us. Without Hughes it's just magnified.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> The prob is the way the Raps defended Lebron is leaving Gibson/Snow wide open.
> 
> They are basically double teaming him all the way out to the three point line. Someone else had to step up and make a play off his pass.


And Eric Snow couldn't make those jumpers to save himself today.......


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Lebron actually had a nice game 30/7/7
> 
> If we need Lebron to do more than that to beat the Raptors, this team is in trouble.


Eric Snow 1/5 3pts
David Wesley 1/5 3 pts
Donyell Marshall 0/6 0pts

That should tell us something right there. We can't win with these guys (particularly the first two) getting significant minutes.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Lebron actually had a nice game 30/7/7
> 
> If we need Lebron to do more than that to beat the Raptors, this team is in trouble.


 Lebron had 30/10/8 actually. It was one of those relatively "quiet" games from him.

THis is a painful loss


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Box Score*

*Toronto 95, Cleveland 87*


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^Our old guys just can't do it in back to backs. It's painfully obvious.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

4BiddenKnight said:


> Mike Brown sure likes Gibson a lot. I think Gibson played 20+ minutes so far today. Gibson sure looks very confident and very sure of himself today. I think Gibson will be given far more playing time than Shannon Brown in the future.


I think the fact Gibson was given meaningful minutes really helped him. It's experience like that that helps mature and develop rookies. Coming into the game in garbage time doesn't do much. So yeah, if Gibson is able to play more when the game is in doubt, he'll grow much quicker than Brown as a player.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Brandname said:


> Eric Snow 1/5 3pts
> David Wesley 1/5 3 pts
> Donyell Marshall 0/6 0pts


Starting backcourt, plus the first guy off the bench.

Yeah, most teams will lose that game.

I can't believe we cut Stephen Graham to give David Wesley a job. I can't believe Eric Snow still starts for an NBA team.

I can't believe we let Smush Parker leave and replaced him with Snow. 

Start Jones. Cut Wesley. Give his minutes which should be very few, to Shannon Brown. Play Sasha at least 25 minuters per night. And have Gibson be Jones' backup.

Make Anderson the first guy off the bench, not Marshall. 

Trade Snow.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

remy23 said:


> I think the fact Gibson was given meaningful minutes really helped him. It's experience like that that helps mature and develop rookies. Coming into the game in garbage time doesn't do much. So yeah, if Gibson is able to play more when the game is in doubt, he'll grow much quicker than Brown as a player.


Yes that was the other key. Gibson was given minutes in the final stretch of the game. Sure he missed open jumpers. But what he can take from this experience is knowing that he's been there, know what it's like playing down the final stretch of a game. I think he'll do better next game if he's put into a situation like this again. 

Poor Shannon. Used to be Shannon getting more minutes than Gibson, but now, I don't know if Mike Brown will ever give Shannon meaningful minutes like he did to Gibson today.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

David Wesley?

David Wesley.

David Wesley!

David...Wesley.

Is a starter on a team with championship aspirations.

Eric Snow has jib. That's all it takes, folks.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

I loved seeing Gibson out there, but seriously, if Wesley or anyone else missed those open shots down the stretch we would be screaming bloody murder.

On a side note, Shannon Brown that bad?


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