# BIG RUMOR!! PAX wants Lewis!



## chibullsfan4life (Feb 19, 2003)

Well sorry I don't know the radio station,but a friend that lives in Seattle called and told me that he heard on the radio, that a deal is close on happening. Sonics would trade Rashard Lewis and fillers,where the Bulls would trade Jay Williams,E-ROB and the 7th pick. has anyone heard anything about this??


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## realbullsfaninLA (Jan 8, 2003)

I hadn't heard that one.But that might work.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I like the thought, and have no doubt that Pax would want Lewis...but I'm pretty sure I heard Seattle wanted to build around him and Allen.

Forward your friends name and number so I can confirm for myself. How about the radio station? I'll call them.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

Sorry...

Over.

Dead.

Done.

Kuput.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I have heard this before. Paxson really likes him and was going to at least explore the option this summer. Jay,ERob,Fizer,#7 for Lewis,Potapenko works and does make an awful lot of sense. Then split the MLE on a vet backup PG ala Kevin Ollie and a vet backup defender at the 2/3 ala Adrian Griffin.


Crawford,Ollie,Mason Jr
Rose,Hassell,Hoiberg
Lewis,Griffin,Jones(2nd rd pick)
Chandler,Marshall,Baxter
Curry,Potapenko,Bagaric


Now me personally i wish Seattle would give us one of their lotto picks back so we could maybe draft a Rose replacement in a couple years someone like Diaw but I could live without it because this team would be pretty high up in the East next season.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

So people say "No" to Carmelo Anthony because there wont be enough shoots for him, Curry, Rose, Crawford (Meaning chemistry problems) but they say "yes" to Rashard Lewis? Lewis does care about stats, he wants the ball and he would produce some chemistry problems with the Baby Bulls. Arent we going after a defensive minded swingman?? Lewis doesnt fit the bill.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Allegedly PAx contacted them about Jay, E-Rob, #7 for Lewis and either another player or the #14 pick.

ESPN radio or 720WGN. Can anyone verify?


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

I have to have one of their picks back for this deal. Lewis is good, but I think the deal is even par for Jay and his potential.

Jay PUSH or slight < Lews
E-Rob > Potapunk-O
#7 > nothing

I am with Curry_52 on this one.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> Allegedly PAx contacted them about Jay, E-Rob, #7 for Lewis and either another player or the #14 pick.
> 
> ESPN radio or 720WGN. Can anyone verify?



Jay, Bax or Bagz, Dmarshall#7

Rashard, Jerome james & 12


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> I have to have one of their picks back for this deal. Lewis is good, but I think the deal is even par for Jay and his potential.
> 
> Jay PUSH or slight < Lews
> ...


Because of our obligation to Houston (the Bryce Drew trade) and the rule that you can't not have a first round pick in successive years, we cannot trade our first round pick without getting a first round pick in return.

This is true until we have used our first round selection, at which time we can trade the player we select. So something could be arranged where we picked the player Seattle wanted at #7 and the trade would not be consummated until that time. However, at that time the salary (100% of the rookie scale value for the #7 pick) for the selected would be counted in the trade.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> 
> Because of our obligation to Houston (the Bryce Drew trade) and the rule that you can't not have a first round pick in successive years, we cannot trade our first round pick without getting a first round pick in return.
> 
> This is true until we have used our first round selection, at which time we can trade the player we select. So something could be arranged where we picked the player Seattle wanted at #7 and the trade would not be consummated until that time.


Didn't think about that. Good point.

However, I'd still need one of thier picks <b>regardless</b>. =)


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## DOGMAN (Jun 10, 2003)

GUYS this is very true. I overheard this rumor on WGN's 720 this morning.
Then today I go to the BULLS message board on ESPN.COM and see that I wasn't the 
only one who heard about this possible trade this morning.
The deal that is set on the table from what I heard on the radio is 
JAY WILLIAMS, E-ROB, and the BULLS' 7th pick for RASHARD LEWIS and a player or pick.

I really hope this is true.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

No, I don't like it at all. Talent wise, are team would be LOADED. But like Curry_52 said, chemistry would for sure be a problem. I'm with drafting Wade or Pietrus and sticking to them, then signing a good shooter and/or defender with the MLE.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Seems to me, if we traded for Lewis... Rose would be shopped extensively.

Maybe cap clearer Terell Brandon or for Spreewell who is signed for 2 years instead of 4.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Lewis plays matador defense and shoots too much. We get rid of Erob, but Lewis' contract is bigger, although he is a much better player.

...I'd rather have shane battier and not trade jay.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PaytonthelluB</b>!
> No, I don't like it at all. Talent wise, are team would be LOADED. But like Curry_52 said, chemistry would for sure be a problem. I'm with drafting Wade or Pietrus and sticking to them, then signing a good shooter and/or defender with the MLE.


Payton, I'm not trying to single you out but... how is the Bulls' team loaded?! We won 30 games last year. If we return essentially the same team, while adding a Pietrus... we will still be a bad team. Pax understands this. You cannot keep stockpiling young players and hoping they will mesh during their rookie contracts. As well, Jerry K left him with 2 bad contracts (E-Rob, Jalen) and the Bryce Drew pick situation to deal with. Its reasonable to assume Pax is looking to get more established players on this team, not add another rookie.

I would be in favor of such a trade b/c Lewis is a legit NBA player, who has improved every year in the L. He's under a decent contract, is young, and simply exploded when GP was traded away from Seattle. I like his game.






VD


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## realbullsfaninLA (Jan 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rwj333</b>!
> Lewis plays matador defense and shoots too much. We get rid of Erob, but Lewis' contract is bigger, although he is a much better player.
> 
> I was under the impression that Lewis didn't shoot enough for Seattle.I thought I heard that they wanted him to take more of a leadership role offensively.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>realbullsfaninLA</b>!
> 
> 
> > Originally posted by <b>rwj333</b>!
> ...


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> 
> 
> ....last season......
> ...


Lewis also had Payton or Allen. Who did Rose have?


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

I like this trade idea... I like Lewis, and if we could get one of their picks it would be even better...

only thing im worried about:

SF-Lewis
SG-Rose

=

not a lot of defense


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

This is exactly the kind of deal Paxson has to do. I would like someone to give me a trade that works. I think either Fizer or Marshall has to be added and Potapenko or James added from their end but otherwise the deal is great. I would think they keep Rose and Lewis for time being to see how they mesh but eventually Rose would be moved and a core 4 of JC,Lewis,Chandler, and Curry would do their thing.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

If the deal is lewis and a player or a pick for Jay, E-rob and the #7, you have to say yes. Opens it up for Crawford and Lewis is the SF we need. We keep fizer and marshall and still have a decent bench. Pressure will be on Mason and Hassell to produce this year. But if we keep hoiberg, that will help. Sign a good MLE player and we are solid for once!! 

I wonder what player it would be in return or what pick?


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

I would only do this trade if we could somehow land Wade or Pietrus at 12. Since that isn't likely, I'd pass on this deal. I'm not a big fan of Rashard.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

Even with Lewis being a BYC player, there are a lot of trades that would work here.

Robinson, Williams, (Mason or Baxter or Bagaric), and #7
for Lewis, James, and #14

Robinson, Williams, Bagaric, and #7
for Lewis, (Potapenko, Booth, or Barry), and #14

Robinson, Williams, Mason, Baxter, and #7
for Lewis, (Booth or Barry), and #14

And obviously the #12 pick could be substituted for the #14 pick, or the Bulls could add some second rounders to the deal.

Also, Marshall for (James, Booth, Potapenko, or Barry) could be added to most of these deals as well.

Fizer probably also could be added, but it would be a little tougher and probably would require Forte coming back this way.


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## bullsinjection (May 15, 2003)

I all for this trade. I'd like to get one of Seattle's draft picks in return to get either a backup for Crawford since this is a heavy PG draft or to get Rose's replacement.

Lewis might not be the defensive presence that we are looking for but he also provides 18ppg and 6.5rpg. Those rebounds from the SF spot will be a huge upside to the Bulls.

Imagine if the Bulls can get Diaw, Pavlovic, or Barbosa with the pick.

:mrt:


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> Even with Lewis being a BYC player, there are a lot of trades that would work here.
> 
> Robinson, Williams, (Mason or Baxter or Bagaric), and #7
> ...


Awesome!!! Thanks NCB 

I would prefer either of the latter 2, b/c Barry is an expiring contract and he's a good outside shooter. I want no part of Booth or James.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

I gotta agree with those who say do this trade if available.

My reasons are simple:

We are getting a legimate on the rise star who can flat out play. He will provide stability at the SF position for years and already has his contract in place and it's reasonable for his talent. This is the kind of player I really want in return for Williams - someone who is athletic, young, established and still has room to grow with the Bulls young guns. 

I'm not for trading Williams unless it brings us back some who dramatically improves us as a team. Lewis does that.

If we are able to get out from under E-Rob's contract, even better. Potapenko is a serviceable Back up C.

Losing the pick is tough, but aren't we trying to draft someone who can develop into what lewis has already developed into?

Sure, I'd love t get one their second 1st rd pick (I'd take Diaw), but if not, I can more than live with this deal.

Williams will be very good in Seattle, especially playing with Allen. Atleast we won't have to see him often and only in a Championship sitatio if it were the playoffs.


PG - Crawford
SG- Rose
SF - Lewis
PF - Chandler
C - Curry

That is a great line-up to me. Offensive threats at every position (Chandler on the offensive glass). Defensively a tall team with athleticism for years to come. Curry and Chandler inside, Lewis, Rose and Crawford ont he outside. Get Crawford to penetrate a bit mroe and you have everything needed on the offensive side.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Speculate on who the #12 or 14 pick would be for us. Consider that we have Lewis, and a MLE to sign, so who do we draft?


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> 
> 
> Payton, I'm not trying to single you out but... how is the Bulls' team loaded?! We won 30 games last year. If we return essentially the same team, while adding a Pietrus... we will still be a bad team. Pax understands this. You cannot keep stockpiling young players and hoping they will mesh during their rookie contracts. As well, Jerry K left him with 2 bad contracts (E-Rob, Jalen) and the Bryce Drew pick situation to deal with. Its reasonable to assume Pax is looking to get more established players on this team, not add another rookie.
> ...


I think I might not have explained clearly. My bad. In NO WAY am I saying the Bulls would be good next year. But as far as a Talanted set of INDIVIDUAL players, IMO we would in fact be loaded. We would have great players in Craw, Curry, Chandler, Rose, AND adding Lewis, that is a great team on PAPER. However, I don't see us doing much better and honestly feel this team would have chemistry problems. I also like Lewis's game as you do, but that doesn't say much to me because I LOVE Kevin Garnetts game and I was totally against the rumors of us trading for him.

P.S. I am not comparing KG's trade rumors to Lewis's, just saying I like their play but they would be helping us given certain circumstances.


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## bullsinjection (May 15, 2003)

With the 12 or 14 pick I would like to see the Bulls draft either Barbosa or Diaw. Both of them are scouted as long-armed athletic guys that can disrupt the other teams offense. They would be great off the bench to cause quick havoc.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

the pre draft rumors are now upon us. i would love this trade if we can swap draft picks. we would have possibly the best young starting lineup in the league and we would still get to keep fizer and marshall with hassell coming off the bench. i hope we would get a good veteran backup pg. 

by the draft we should have a better idea of what are team is going to look like for next season and then we can start making reasonable predictions on how much success we will have next year.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

NCBullsfan,


I would think Marshall or Fizer would need to be added for us since we would have a little logjam at the forward positions. So does a Jay,Erob,Bagaric,Marshall for Lewis,Potapenko,#14 work? Then draft Barbosa or Diaw and sign an Adrian Griffin type along with a vet PG like Ollie.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

If we do make this trade (and I'm not for it, though I don't think it's such a bad trade), I would love to pick up Diaw with the pick we get back from Seattle. Diaw would give us our defensive 3, and he could even play some back up point guard behind Jamal if he's really slick with the ball.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> NCBullsfan,
> I would think Marshall or Fizer would need to be added for us since we would have a little logjam at the forward positions. So does a Jay,Erob,Bagaric,Marshall for Lewis,Potapenko,#14 work? Then draft Barbosa or Diaw and sign an Adrian Griffin type along with a vet PG like Ollie.


No, if we add Marshall to the deal, we have to take back two of the $5 million dollar men from Seattle (Booth, Potapenko, James, and Barry). We may also have to add in a bit more filler.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

I could give a damn about the picks. Just stating my opinion.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

WE UNDERATE ROSE TOO MUCH!


wE CAN GET lEWIS FOR rOSE AND bAX.

oTHER TEAMS LOOK AT ROSE AS A GREAT PLAYER LIKE WE SHOULD!


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I love the trade...but why does Seattle want to do it?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

> No, if we add Marshall to the deal, we have to take back two of the $5 million dollar men from Seattle (Booth, Potapenko, James, and Barry). We may also have to add in a bit more filler.



Thanks NCBullsfan, I would not be interested in doing that I dont think. Potapenko I would like but not Booth or James and certainly not Barry after the way he left here. So here is my concern then:


Crawford,Vet PG,Mason Jr
Rose,Hassell,Hoiberg
Lewis,Marshall,Diaw(#14)
Chandler,Fizer,Baxter
Curry,Potapenko,2nd rd pick(?)


Throw in a MLE guy here and I have to wonder is there enough minutes to go around. Seems a little logjammed to me. Having said that I am in favoring of finding a Lewis deal because that is exactly what we need here.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Two things don't rose and lewis play the same position and play very similar games and as such won't they inhibit each others games?  That is they shoot from similar spots of the floor. Also they are both weak on D and we are make the teams main weakness ever weaker.

Ok with the 12 pick i think the bulls could still easily get pietrus. now i am not sure but i assume sea would take a sf so lampe at 7, just a guess. Ok so the next team who might need a shooting guard is maybe washington, but they have stack and really need either a swing or a pg and babosa or Daiw would seem to make more sense. Just a guess. Also i assume gs takes a pg as well since they have jamison and Jrich.

It is not that i don't want lewis i hoped the bulls could have had him when he was a free agent it is just i would rather have lewis than rose. I continue to see the bulls as a up tempo, fast break, tough defensive team in a couple of years and see that rose game just does not mesh with that system. But we will never be able to lose his contract.

david


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

The trade sounds interesting, but what kind of defense does Lewis really play? He seem's to be athletic, but does he have the desire and will he put up the effort to guard people? That's the key, thing.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
> Two things don't rose and lewis play the same position and play very similar games and as such won't they inhibit each others games? That is they shoot from similar spots of the floor. Also they are both weak on D and we are make the teams main weakness ever weaker.



Rose can play SG and Lewis can play SF

your right though, they do have similar game and both have pretty weak defensive skills, still there is a possibility that they would work great together because they have such similar game...


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> I love the trade...but why does Seattle want to do it?


GB, here are my conclusions as to why Seattle would consider this deal:

1) Need at PG: Jay Williams even after a shaky first year, is still a better prospect than any PG in <i>this</i> year's draft including TJ Ford.

2) Rebuilds through draft: Seattle could potentially own the #7 and #12 picks in a deep draft (assuming #14 gets traded to Chicago). They could draft a replacement for Lewis (ie. Pietrus) and a banger down low (Sweetney or West comes to mind)

3) Salary concerns: simply put, E-Rob is owed ~20M, Lewis is owed over 55M through '09.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Rose and Lewis similar? Could be but with both of them on the floor at the same time, the other team can't double team them at the same time. Woulc cause match up problems.


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

Anyone know if Lewis is BYC?

I like this trade. What Lewis brings that
ERob lacks is an outside stroke from 3 pt range
and solid rebounding


What Lewis is that Anthony is not is a NBA proven 
player. Last year Dunlady was going to be a star, but
he has yet to establish himself. Not to equate Melo
with Dunlady, but there are no "sure things" in the NBA...
Joe Smith is the perfect example.

Also Lewis has much better size than Melo. Melo
to me measured in on the small side at 6'6.5.
melo may not be much taller than Pietrus.

As for depth at PG, this draft is currently loaded. bulls
will get a decent pg at 36 or can package some combo
of 2nd round picks to move up and insure that they
get a player like M.Moore, Jameer Nelson (my favorite)
or Troy Bell (another favorite).

If the Bulls get the 14 back, this is a good spot to
land Diaw without reaching or maybe a back-up five in 
the gatored armed Kaman who seems to be slipping
due to mediocre workouts..


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Speculate on who the #12 or 14 pick would be for us. Consider that we have Lewis, and a MLE to sign, so who do we draft?


There are so many guys available, and now you are drafting for the future, since the nucleus is solid and tight. To me, we are drafting depth at PG or C and a future replacement for Rose.

GUys probably around and who IMHO I would jump on with the 14th pick (don't see them including the earier of the two):

Avaliable at 14:
Barbosa
Diaw
Gaines
Badiane


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ztect</b>!
> Also Lewis has much better size than Melo. Melo
> to me measured in on the small side at 6'6.5.
> melo may not be much taller than Pietrus.
> ...


Z, I think the Bulls definitely go with Diaw at #14 if he's available. Or Hayes if he slips. Gaines is a possibility as well (though a stretch). Basically the Bulls must get a backup SG/SF to groom when Jalen leaves town or is traded.

In the 2nd, draft a Troy Bell or Euro PG to backup Jamal.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

So, if we switch picks as a resullt of this trade, who's "Diaw"? I've heard of Pietrus and his style of play, but what does Diaw bring to the table? How can he help is? Whose style of play is he most emulate now? He would back up Lewis, no? Will he likely be available at 14?


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## LuCane (Dec 9, 2002)

Believe it or not, the guy I would target on that team would be V. Radmonovic. He would be the better fit for our team, and the sweet shooting role-player type that we would need. His defense isnt exactly stellar, but in terms of fitting with our current starters, he does so better than Lewis, and at a much less cost.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!</b>!
> So, if we switch picks as a resullt of this trade, who's "Diaw"? I've heard of Pietrus and his style of play, but what does Diaw bring to the table? How can he help is? Whose style of play is he most emulate now? He would back up Lewis, no? Will he likely be available at 14?


http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/borisdiaw.htm

Diaw and Pietrus play for the same team in France. I suspect Pax got a good view of both after his recent scouting trip.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Where does the idea come from that Lewis does not play defense?

OK he is not First Team All D but he is quite capable

This notion that he is not is crap


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Where does the idea come from that Lewis does not play defense?
> 
> OK he is not First Team All D but he is quite capable
> ...


Any more opinions on Rashard's defense? I haven't watched enough Seattle to have an opinion.


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

Regarding chemistry, IMO Shard fits in very well with the
Bulls needs on the offensive end becuase of his range

Bulls need shooters. Rose and Craw can penetrate and dish out
to Shard occupying a point of the triangle.

He doesn't need to dominate or handle the ball and can
get to spots on the floor. When Rose and Craw shoot
from outside, Shard adds another aggressive body on the
offensive glass.

Haven't studied his 'd', but Lewis also is very young.
Defense with many of these young players is the last thing
that they learn (eg. Craw, Fizer, and EC).
Shard has a much stronger and physical body than ERob,
or Rose, so he has the potential to be a better and
more physical defender than either ERob or Rose.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

The East is as much about small forwards as the west is about power forwards.

I can't do it until late tonight, but how did Lewis fare when he played 1. Artest 2. Pierce 3. T-mac 4. Mashburn ? season past?

That will tell a lot.


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## MyBallsStillHurt (May 30, 2002)

If it's true, I LOVE THIS TRADE!  

We could become very nasty next season if we run out a lineup of Crawford, Rose, Lewis, Chandler and Curry! Very NASTY! :yes:


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## comptons (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Where does the idea come from that Lewis does not play defense?
> 
> OK he is not First Team All D but he is quite capable
> ...


I think he first started to get playing time because of his D.


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!</b>!
> So, if we switch picks as a resullt of this trade, who's "Diaw"? I've heard of Pietrus and his style of play, but what does Diaw bring to the table? How can he help is? Whose style of play is he most emulate now? He would back up Lewis, no? Will he likely be available at 14?


Diaw, is said to be as capable or even more capable
defender than Pietrus, plus Diaw is also considered something
of a point forward akin to Pip.

The two thing supposedly lacking in his game are
intensity and shooting touch.

The intensity issue usually is in comparsion to Pietrus.

His stroke is supposedly pretty ugly. I have read that
he also has a slow release..which may or may not be ture

At 6'9 Diaw also has much better size to play the 3 than Pietrus.


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## Electric Slim (Jul 31, 2002)

I understand what you naysayers are saying, but I would totally bite in this trade.

It makes us ridiculously versatile, and we could always pick up our Bruce Bowen/Andrian Griffin/etc. through FA or draft (Diaw???). 

I'm not counting on this trade to happen but it comforts me that Paxon is heading in the right direction. :yes:


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ztect</b>!
> 
> 
> Diaw, is said to be as capable or even more capable
> ...


ahh ztect I disagree with your analysis on Diaw's stroke...

take a look at these 3 video clips of Diaw... all 3 are of him shooting 3 pointers and they look pretty darn good to me:

http://www.msb.fr/medias_list.asp?a...ris Diaw-Riffiod&prenom_joueur=&format=&date=


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

One thing everyone should realize is that we if we make this Lewis trade, we will be picking up salary for next year, because of Lewis's BYC status.

With this trade, we would be nearing luxury tax territory, so I strongly suspect if we make this trade, we do not use our full MLE.

Reinsdorf is willing to pay the luxury tax for a championship contender, but I am not sure he is willing to pay it for a team that is still a few years away from being a championship contender.

So consider not using our MLE as a cost of this trade.

By the way, I have been working on my Free Agent analysis, and an early draft is in the Salaries and the CBA forum. I am only about halfway through the teams.

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34527&forumid=111

I apologize for promoting my own posts, but for any of you interested in understanding the free agent market, this post is a must read.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

it seems like i want a new guy on our team every day. a couple days ago it was pietrus, then wade, now lewis. who will it be tomorrow?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> One thing everyone should realize is that we if we make this Lewis trade, we will be picking up salary for next year, because of Lewis's BYC status.
> 
> With this trade, we would be nearing luxury tax territory, so I strongly suspect if we make this trade, we do not use our full MLE.
> ...


Thanks. Keep us balanced so that we don't get too carried away. That would be a first eh? Bulls fans getting too carried away?


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Sign me up for the deal. We would be set at all 5 positions and still extra bigs.

I doubt that Reindorf would go for a multi-year MLE this off-season anyway.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!I doubt that Reindorf would go for a multi-year MLE this off-season anyway.


Yes, the Chicago and national press has assumed that we will use our MLE, but I agree that is certainly isn't a foregone conclusion, given where we stand in relation to the luxury tax threshold, both this year and in future years.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> 
> Yes, the Chicago and national press has assumed that we will use our MLE, but I agree that is certainly isn't a foregone conclusion, given where we stand in relation to the luxury tax threshold, both this year and in future years.


I crunched some number assuming that we extend Craw and possibly Fizer. We get pretty close to the lux tax after this upcomming season.

Assuming no trades, I figure that mgmt would gladly give out a 1 year MLE (maybe split to 2 players). Or maybe a 2 year deal. But very unlikely to be longer.


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## Sicky Dimpkins (May 28, 2002)

Hmmm... random out of order thoughts: 

1. Interesting that it can be done before Lewis's BYC expiry of 19 September after all that discussion last summer.

2. I'm not afraid of this marginalizing Roses's game but I do think it does Marshall's. Seems a bit crowded in the 3/4 category. This would make more sense if Marshall weren't a Bull.
I guess it could be done though if Lewis and Rose cut back on their minutes a little. I really hope Lewis is significantly better than Marshall guarding 3's otherwise this is really not a good move.

3. Am I the only one who doesn't wonder why Seattle native JC isn't the one in the deal?

4. Is Lewis really only 215 lbs.?

5. I think I'd need both of their 1st round picks to do it.

6. I prefer: One of (JC/JW) & Fizer & ER & #7 for Allen & #12 & #14. No Seattle fan has said yes to date. 

7. If Kaman or Podkolzine or maybe Lampe are there at #7 this really looks nice for Seattle. If the 5 and the 1 spot are the hardest spots to fill, then they get a bonanza. A cheap young 1 and a cheap young 5 and the removal of an expensive bad 5 all for taking on an expensive bad 3 and losing a very good 3/4 with the longest most expensive contract and 1 or 2 mid 1st round picks. Very young but very nice. 

8. The Bull still would have the contracts of Fizer & Crawford to deal with.

9. Shifting crap at the 3 for crap at the 5 is good I guess. I wonder if it would be the foul magnet(James) the always injured (Booth) or the thug(Potapenko)?

10. Does the youth, contract and size/area of play of Lewis create a threat to TC and a lesser extent EC? Young quasi star player in their area of influence? Marshall doesn't because he's older. Allen wouldn't because he's in the backcourt. Can they get along?

11. No shot inflation so that's good. These may be a bit out of date: J: ~ 9.1, ER ~4.9 Total: ~ 14 Lewis ~ 14.9.

12. I really prefer Rose at the 3 but oh well... maybe the Bull get a 2 with the Seattle pick.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

nice point about why isn't it JC going to seattle? Looks like Pax is really high on Jamal. I do wonder if Seattle asked just for Jay or was Jay the only one the Bulls offered. 

Seems if we really are talking about this trade, that Sheed plays defense good enough in Johns mind to even consider talking about the trade at all!! 

I think if we do get the #12 or 14 in return it doesn't have to be a SG. But i would like one. We do have Mason and Hassell and of course there is always Hoiberg. 

I think Lewis will be ok with Curry and Chandler. The reason why i say this is, i really think you are going to see the ball go through Curry a hell of allot more than we did last year. Time and again i sensed the frustration in Johns voice about why the Bulls would go away from what was working. And what he was referring to was Curry and the quick starts he got! Why do something else when something obviously was working very well. It doesn't matter about Lewis and his 14 shots. He will get them. He has never been the focal point of offense and coming here he will play a similar role as he did in Seattle. But what i really like about the trade is, we gain over 6 rebounds a game! Our rebouding wwas weak last year! This can only help us.


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## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

i'll address several posts here.



> Originally posted by *NCBullsFan*!
> Because of our obligation to Houston (the Bryce Drew trade) and the rule that you can't not have a first round pick in successive years, we cannot trade our first round pick without getting a first round pick in return.


it's true we can't deal the pick until we've made it. but we're in no danger of surrendering our #1 to Houston next year unless we make a _lot_ of progress. Houston receives a Chicago first round pick in 2003 or 2004, (top 20 protected) or 2 future Chicago second-round picks in 2005 and 2006. If the pick is protected in both 03 and '04, the second rounders will be exercised instead (Bryce Drew trade 092800)



> Originally posted by *NCBullsFan*!
> ...at that time the salary (100% of the rookie scale value for the #7 pick) for the selected would be counted in the trade.


Draft picks count $0 for salary matching purposes, until the draft pick signs a contract, when his actual salary becomes his trade value -- How are draft picks handled in trades?



> Originally posted by *ztect*!
> Anyone know if Lewis is BYC?


Lewis _is_ a BYC, but that status ends on September 19th, 2003. BYC status only lasts one year now, instead of two. How does base-year compensation affect trades? 



> Originally posted by *NCBullsFan*!
> One thing everyone should realize is that we if we make this Lewis trade, we will be picking up salary for next year, because of Lewis's BYC status.


if we make the deal official after September 19 of this year, it's a dollar-for-dollar deal. here's a look at Chicago salaries and Seattle salaries, although the Seattle model doesn't show Lewis' dollars after this coming season. 

and, in case anyone's interested, here's a quick synopsis of Lewis' game from hoopshype.com.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ztect</b>!
> What Lewis is that Anthony is not is a NBA proven
> player. Last year Dunlady was going to be a star, but
> he has yet to establish himself. Not to equate Melo
> ...


You stated yourself that you are not trying to compare these two players, but Dunleavy was drafted as a project and he has proven to be just that--a project. He still does not have NBA bulk...

The expectations on Melo are more similar to those directed towards JWill in that people expect him to produce immidiately.


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> If the deal is lewis and a player or a pick for Jay, E-rob and the #7, you have to say yes. Opens it up for Crawford and Lewis is the SF we need. We keep fizer and marshall and still have a decent bench. Pressure will be on Mason and Hassell to produce this year. But if we keep hoiberg, that will help. Sign a good MLE player and we are solid for once!!
> 
> I wonder what player it would be in return or what pick?



TRUE! Lewis and Rose can be used interchangably at SG and SF, plus we unload ERobbery's contract (I like ERob, but we're paying him too much to ride the pine).


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, the Chicago and national press has assumed that we will use our MLE, but I agree that is certainly isn't a foregone conclusion, given where we stand in relation to the luxury tax threshold, both this year and in future years.


I'm not sure this is such a bad thing, judging from free agencys track record the past couple of years...


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

If the Bulls get Lewis they will be a 6th seed in the East. What I dont understan is: Why did the Sonics make such a huge commitment to Lewis last season? As far as Im concernced, he didnt dissapoint this last season either to put him inmediatly on the "Available" list. 
I think this rumour is BS, thats just me.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I ended up watching Seattle quite a bit last year after I re-discovered the genius of Payton, but I still don't feel I have a great take on Lewis's game. 

I remember thinking that Lewis was just too inconsistent but this just reflected when I reviewed his stats... Lewis's 18.1 ppg looks more impressive when you consider that he only scored over 30 points once all-season (37 vs. Washington). Rashard was coming to work every night. He pulled consitently solid rebounds and didn't have bad shooting nights more then once every 9 or 10 games. Quite remarkable consistency...


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

It all comes down to which of these two line-ups is preferred. Would you rather see:

A) Curry, TY, Jalen, Craw, and JWill or
b) Curry, Ty, Levis, Rose, and Craw.

My vote--if solely for entertainment-- would be team A. I never really enjoyed watching Lewis play like I did Mason or Payton. 

I'm crazy about how the Bulls were playing at the end of last year with Jalen carrying a smaller scoring load at sf. Not only was the team fun as hell to watch, it was successful, considering the lack of experience on the court, in the win/loss column. I think your first option should be to wait and see if Rose continues to grow into his new mold. 

After all these years, it is almost dangerous to say the organization needs to be patient, but I project both options as having relatively similar chances at making a serious run-- and I would rather watch the JWILL version.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

Thunderspirit,

First of all, your post was one great post. I quite wrong about a lot of things quite often, but about CBA stuff, I am not wrong too often. Thanks for correcting me.

Believe me, from now on I will be eagerly looking forward to your posts.



> Originally posted by <b>thunderspirit</b>!
> it's true we can't deal the pick until we've made it. but we're in no danger of surrendering our #1 to Houston next year unless we make a _lot_ of progress. Houston receives a Chicago first round pick in 2003 or 2004, (top 20 protected) or 2 future Chicago second-round picks in 2005 and 2006. If the pick is protected in both 03 and '04, the second rounders will be exercised instead (Bryce Drew trade 092800)


I think we are in agreement here. Because we _could_ be one of the top 9 teams next year, we can't trade our #1 pick this year prior to the draft (without getting one back), regardless of how unlikely that outcome may be.



> Originally posted by <b>thunderspirit</b>!Draft picks count $0 for salary matching purposes, until the draft pick signs a contract, when his actual salary becomes his trade value -- How are draft picks handled in trades?


Yes, this is where I was wrong. I thinking about how the picks count toward the salary cap rather than how they count in trades. And once he signs a contract, the draft pick is untradeable for three months or until December 15, whichever is later. 



> Originally posted by <b>thunderspirit</b>!Lewis _is_ a BYC, but that status ends on September 19th, 2003. BYC status only lasts one year now, instead of two. How does base-year compensation affect trades?


I wasn't aware that BYC status was only a one-year proposition for players signed after July 1, 2001. That will be a good thing to file in the memory bank. Thanks!



> Originally posted by <b>thunderspirit</b>!if we make the deal official after September 19 of this year, it's a dollar-for-dollar deal. here's a look at Chicago salaries and Seattle salaries, although the Seattle model doesn't show Lewis' dollars after this coming season.


But we would have to wait through almost the entire free agent season to make this trade. If we really want Lewis, this might be a bit risky, because one never knows when a better offer might come along to break up the trade.


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## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> But we would have to wait through almost the entire free agent season to make this trade. If we really want Lewis, this might be a bit risky, because one never knows when a better offer might come along to break up the trade.


again, this is true _technically_, but i believe you can file the trade with the league contingent upon dates. i think it works in reverse of the "retroactive to xx date" that is used for baseball's disabled list.

i may be off-base on that, though. NC, Sicky, any help you can offer here?


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## Qwerty123 (May 31, 2002)

I've posted this in the past everytime Lewis's name has come up. It's a scouting report that was written after the _2001-2002_ season, so it's a little outdated now, but it's very comprehensive nonetheless.

http://www.sonicscentral.com/lewis.html


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> If the Bulls get Lewis they will be a 6th seed in the East. What I dont understan is: Why did the Sonics make such a huge commitment to Lewis last season? As far as Im concernced, he didnt dissapoint this last season either to put him inmediatly on the "Available" list.
> I think this rumour is BS, thats just me.



I think your last line sums it all up. Every summer I fall prey to one of these posts, that on the surface seems very reasonable and plausible, but beneath it reaks of B.S. It's usually titled with caps and exclamation points to seemingly added crediblity and then is back up by something someone heard on the radio or something a friend who's close to one of the so-called participating organizations who has an inside track that says the details of the deal are just being worked out. Every summer this happens several times and I usually bite (as I did on this one) on the first one and then I am usually pretty skeptical from that point forward. 

All I have to say is .... you got me.


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## pjc845 (Jun 9, 2002)

*Great trade*

Do it.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

If the deal is 

Williams, E-Rob and the 7th pick

for

Lewis, Potapenko and the 14th pick

then I wouldn't do it. I think Seattle would need to throw in both picks.

In my view,

Williams (though disappointing this year) = Lewis
7th pick = 12th & 14th picks
E-Rob = Potapenko

My personal opinion is to trade one of our point guards, but only do it if the right deal comes across the table. Also the deal would be contingent on either Pietrus or Wade being available at 12.

It is just a rumor. though.


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## RocketFan85 (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm not a big Bulls fan, but I like the trade for the Bulls. Lewis is the real deal, and with him, the Bulls would be in the playoffs. Curry, Chandler, Lewis, Crawford. That is alot of firepower.


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## pjc845 (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> In my view,
> 
> Williams (though disappointing this year) = Lewis


I think your view is a little biased. No one in their right mind would equate Williams's value to be anywhere near Rashard Lewis's.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I am not a huge fan of Lewis, although I will confess he is talented, I much prefer someone like Odom. Still, this trade does a lot for the Bulls. It makes a final decision on pg (I know some folks want to give JWill the same amount of time we gave JC but thats just not practical unless you want to go through 2-3 more seasons of losing), it adds a vet back up center, it gets rid of Robinson's contract, it gives us an atheletic sf, and it gives us a lower draft pick in a draft big on potential. I think the Bulls would have to pull the trigger if this deal is really out there.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I agree ACE we trade for Lewis if this deal is really out there. My only sticking point would be to draft a combo guard at #14. We would be thin in backcourt without doing this. Now who would be at #14 I dont know maybe Barbosa or Gaines. That way bench would be Barbosa,Hassell, Marshall,Fizer to go along with the starting 5 of JC,Rose,Lewis,Chandler,Curry. That is a good 9 man rotation.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> I agree ACE we trade for Lewis if this deal is really out there. My only sticking point would be to draft a combo guard at #14. We would be thin in backcourt without doing this. Now who would be at #14 I dont know maybe Barbosa or Gaines. That way bench would be Barbosa,Hassell, Marshall,Fizer to go along with the starting 5 of JC,Rose,Lewis,Chandler,Curry. That is a good 9 man rotation.


if we trade EROB wouldn't we want another SF?

I think Diaw would be great with Seattle's pick.

The good thing about him is that he CAN play like a guard (point forward)...

He could probably play PG, SG, or SF for us... a nice defensive utility player.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Diaw is a possibilty too I guess I had a brain freeze for a second. We also have Mason Jr who is a lot better than we saw this past season. So yeah picking Diaw would be cool.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> I think your view is a little biased. No one in their right mind would equate Williams's value to be anywhere near Rashard Lewis's.


PJC, And your view on Jay Williams isn't biased? The point I was making is I think J-Will will end up being a player of similar ability to Lewis. Lewis is star. Similar to Rose. So J-Will and 7 for Lewis and 14, Seattle COULD end up getting the best two players in a deal, where other filler is also needed, which means a bad deal for Chicago.

As I said in my initial post, it is just a rumor and don't see why Seattle would want to trade Lewis.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

NO WAY!!! The Sonics are nowhere near that stupid to give up a superstar in Rashard Lewis for a guy who is making millions to much, a bust rookie, and a 7th pick when we already have 2 lottery pix!


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> NO WAY!!! The Sonics are nowhere near that stupid to give up a superstar in Rashard Lewis for a guy who is making millions to much, a bust rookie, and a 7th pick when we already have 2 lottery pix!


Marcus... you already have 2 lotto picks but I would imagine a deal like this would involve Seattle trading either the 12th or 14th pick ADDITIONALLY... remember Jay williams was the #2 pick last season AND the Sonics have no PG...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

First of all Seattle needs a PG and Williams will be better than any PG you could get at 12 or 14. The #7 pick allows you to get a better player than you would have a 12 or 14 perhaps a center in Kaman or a PF in Lampe, many more options at 7. Erob 's deal runs out sooner than Lewis but he would be a good energy guy off bench. 



Williams,Ollie
Allen,Barry
Radman,Robinson
Sweetney(#12),Evans
Kaman(#7),James


That aint a bad team at all.


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

I would think Fizer might be included in a deal with Seattle, they need a PF.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hps</b>!
> I would think Fizer might be included in a deal with Seattle, they need a PF.


the #7 pick could be Lampe if they want a PF


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## Sicky Dimpkins (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>thunderspirit</b>!
> 
> 
> again, this is true _technically_, but i believe you can file the trade with the league contingent upon dates. i think it works in reverse of the "retroactive to xx date" that is used for baseball's disabled list.
> ...


While I'm flattered you'd ask me, I think you may be mistaking my interest and frequent posts about the CBA FAQ's with actually having a clue about them. I don't. Just a casual fan. A hack. 

NCBullsFan on the other hand has a non-public source and a brain not to mention a clue. He's the Larry **** of this site.

I don't know why any party would want to lock in a trade for an extended period of time without retaining the option of changing if something better came along. 

Closest I can find is 48 hours.

This protects the player however.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> Marcus... you already have 2 lotto picks but I would imagine a deal like this would involve Seattle trading either the 12th or 14th pick ADDITIONALLY... remember Jay williams was the #2 pick last season AND the Sonics have no PG...


Yea, and we would still have to draft a PG, J-Will is a BUST


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 
> 
> Yea, and we would still have to draft a PG, J-Will is a BUST


:sigh:


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Williams,Ollie
> Allen,Barry
> Radman,Robinson
> ...


Barbosa
Allen
Lewis
Sweeteny
Campbell/James/Drob

is better


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hps</b>!
> I would think Fizer might be included in a deal with Seattle, they need a PF.


We dont want him-Sweeteny is going to be better than Fizer


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 
> 
> Barbosa
> ...


Barbosa is OVERHYPED just like JWILL was last season...


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Barbosa is underhyped-he is going to be the best point guard out of the draft this year


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> Barbosa is underhyped-he is going to be the best point guard out of the draft this year


ok, we'll see then.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Marcus13 trust me when I say this Jay Williams and Ray Allen would be an outstanding backcourt.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Marcus13 trust me when I say this Jay Williams and Ray Allen would be an outstanding backcourt.


So would Barbosa and Allen

So is Barry and Allen

I dont see any improvement in Williams and Allen


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## Swishy K (Feb 26, 2003)

As I did on another thread, I have to lay one thing to rest. Seattle is not desperate for a point guard. The triple rotation of Barry, Ollie, and Ray Allen did a great job after the Gary Payton trade, with Barry even having a 15 assist game. They don't need a star point guard, just a solid defender who can penatrate and dish off. They might trade down to get one such as Marcus Banks or Mo Williams just as easily as using one of their picks on Barbosa or Hindrich.
Jay Williams isn't a big enough carrot to dangle to make Seattle give up Lewis, who has done a great job, is locked up for years, and is young enough to be a cornerstone for many years to come.
Although I will say this. If Seattle could get Dwayne Wade, then a deal like trading Radmanovic, the #14 pick, and a future first round pick to move up to #7 would be good for Seattle. Radmanovic can shoot the ball as well as Lewis but hasn't learned the details of the NBA game yet. Chicago could have their small forward, get a future first rounder, and could still get a good player at #14.
Seattle could then trade Barry and the #12 pick for someone like Al Harrington if Sweetney is picked before Seattle can. Wade then becomes the Sonics point guard, and also spells off Allen.


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## LuCane (Dec 9, 2002)

PJC, thats great stuff man, you call someone out for being biased when past posts show that you are ne of the most fierce JWill haters around. True Irony.

Marcus,

L. Barbosa is simply an international version of Keyon Dooling. Have you seen him play, and more importantly, shoot? He is a lead guard without mechanics on his shot, in short, he is a scorer with athleticism (ala Dooling).


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LuCane</b>!
> He is a lead guard without a mechanics on his shot, in short, he is a scorer with athleticism (ala Dooling).


Which is exactly what we need, he can penetrate and dish to Ray Allen and Rashgard Lewis-not to mention score the ball by driving to the hole-he is our guy-unlike J-Will who can barely dunk let alone shoot a freakin' jumper


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## LuCane (Dec 9, 2002)

Wow, no offense man, but you should probably do a bit more research before making claims.

I did not even speak of JWill in my post, but you seem pretty steadfast in your attempt to bash him so here goes:

"unlike J-Will who can barely dunk let alone shoot a freakin' jumper"

Really? You do realize he missed that dunk that was headlined all over the news, but that the fact remains is he actually has pretty impressive vert, and he dunks more often than many PG's? You also realize that its unimportant for a PG to dunk right? 

Wait, now JWill cant shoot? I think many of you are buying into the perception thats being built rather than formulating your own opinion based on observation. This is a guy that shot 40% from the field for the year, not exactly stellar, but not atrocious. This is also a guy that shot 58% from the field over the last month of the season. His form is picture perfect, and he seems to have learned when to take a shot, which sometimes is more important than where you take a shot.

Can he penetrate? I think he is up there with Marbury and Nash in the ability to get in the lane.

Can he dish? Have you ever seen him ona pick and roll? Its really a thing of beauty, and he would do EXTREMELY well in this type of offense with a Ray Allen to kick it out to.

Can he score? I think its clear that he has learned the difference between a good shot an a bad shot, and that forcing up shots is not in his best interest.

So what does he need to work on?
Finishing at the hoop. This will come with time and adjustment to the league, as it has for many other PG's.
Not over-penetrating, again, this is simply a matter of acclimation, not talent.
Not getting down on himself.
Earning his respect rather than expecting for it simply be there because of a supposed status.

OK, so there is your PG, with loads of potential, and you want to take an unknown, Raw player, without an outside shot that compares to Keyon Dooling?

Cheers.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Barbosa needs -major- work on his shot. They say that he shoots off his chest!
I think he will prolly be better than Dooling, but right now it's a fair comparison.


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LuCane</b>!
> Wow, no offense man, but you should probably do a bit more research before making claims.
> 
> I did not even speak of JWill in my post, but you seem pretty steadfast in your attempt to bash him so here goes:
> ...


Great post!


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LuCane</b>!
> Really? You do realize he missed that dunk that was headlined all over the news, but that the fact remains is he actually has pretty impressive vert, and he dunks more often than many PG's? You also realize that its unimportant for a PG to dunk right? Well that's what we need our PG to do-Slash and thats what Barbosa does
> 
> Wait, now JWill cant shoot? I think many of you are buying into the perception thats being built rather than formulating your own opinion based on observation. This is a guy that shot 40% from the field for the year, not exactly stellar, but not atrocious. This is also a guy that shot 58% from the field over the last month of the season. His form is picture perfect, and he seems to have learned when to take a shot, which sometimes is more important than where you take a shot. Yeah, Barbosa shot a 58% from the field aswell- I only brought this up because another person said that Barbosa couldn't shoot and I was just saying he shoots as well as J-Will
> ...


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I don't get it. You are taking a chance on an UNKNOWN player, that you have never ever seen play. Instead, you read some scouting report on nbadraft.net and decided, Hey! this player sounds good. Well, guess what-- they ALL sound good. 

Have you not noticed that those scouting reports aren't very reliable? It compared Tyson Chandler to Rasheed Wallace, Pau Gasol to Toni Kukoc, etc. My guess is that he is being compared to Arenas based on the fact that they are both great athletes, and around 6'3, nothing more.

Yeah, Barbosa averaged 30 pts... in a Brazilian league... ummmm. Are there actually any good, quality players in that league besides him, and Hilario last year? Obviously, the fact that he can even average 30 pts is impressive, but its not against the greatest competition. I doubt he would average 58% shooting in the NBA. 

JWill is one year from being taken number two in the draft. He is two years removed from winning an NCAA championship. I think trading him for Rashard Lewis is silly, especially when his value will never be lower; the only reason I'm for the trade is that we get rid of Robinson.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rwj333</b>!
> Yeah, Barbosa averaged 30 pts... in a Brazilian league... ummmm. Are there actually any good, quality players in that league besides him, and Hilario last year? Obviously, the fact that he can even average 30 pts is impressive, but its not against the greatest competition. I doubt he would average 58% shooting in the NBA.


lol, Brazilian pro leagues are better than USA colleges


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## bullsinjection (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 
> 
> lol, Brazilian pro leagues are better than USA colleges


I am not going to disagree with you but how do you know?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullsinjection</b>!
> 
> 
> I am not going to disagree with you but how do you know?


What you mean? There are foreign basketball games on all the time on satellite-there is one on today at Noon from Fox Sports Detroit...


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## bullsinjection (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 
> 
> What you mean? There are foreign basketball games on all the time on satellite-there is one on today at Noon from Fox Sports Detroit...


I get Fox Detoit on my dish and my schedule doesn't show it:

Thu 12 FSN Fox Sports Detroit 
7:30 AM Best Damn Sports Show Period 
9:30 AM Paid Programming 
10:00 AM Paid Programming 
10:30 AM Paid Programming 
11:00 AM Detroit Sports Report 
11:30 AM Detroit Sports Report 
12:00 PM Babe Winkelman's Fishing 
12:30 PM Wolverine Sports Weekly 
1:00 PM High-School Basketball 
3:00 PM Bluetorch 
4:00 PM Off the Wall 
5:00 PM You Gotta See This! 
5:30 PM 54321
6:00 PM Totally NASCAR 
6:30 PM Detroit Sports Report 
7:00 PM Baseball 
10:00 PM Detroit Sports Report 
10:30 PM 54321 
11:00 PM Best Damn Sports Show Period 

Fri 13 FSN Fox Sports Detroit 
1:00 AM Totally NASCAR 
1:30 AM You Gotta See This! 
2:00 AM Off the Wall 
3:00 AM Baseball 
6:00 AM Paid Programming 
6:30 AM Detroit Sports Report 
7:00 AM Detroit Sports Report 
7:30 AM Best Damn Sports Show Period 

I would LOVE to watch games from the Brazil leagues if there is talent there like Nene. If Barbosa is as talented as Nene he would be awesome to watch.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

> lol, Brazilian pro leagues are better than USA colleges


If they are, than why are there no prospects coming out, besides nene and barbosa? The defense must not be good, if a shooting guard averages 58%. Has a US college player averaged that?

edit: okay, 3! players...


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rwj333</b>!
> 
> 
> If they are, than why are there no prospects coming out, besides nene and barbosa?


Anderson Varajao, probably in next year's draft.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullsinjection</b>!
> 
> 
> I get Fox Detoit on my dish and my schedule doesn't show it:
> ...


I wish I could go bakk and look at the schedule but its over now-I will post the next time there is a Brazilian game on-I didnt watch it


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rwj333</b>!
> 
> 
> If they are, than why are there no prospects coming out, besides nene and barbosa? The defense must not be good, if a shooting guard averages 58%. Has a US college player averaged that?
> ...


Dude, they are veteran players...same age as guys in the NBA, at like 30 years old you dont wanna go to a league and be a rookie. The new generation players are going to start coming over here as you can tell-take a lok at next year's mock-half the draft is freakin foreign


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=405611#post405611

check out at Justin Young's posts... some interesting stuff there. He says 



> Barbosa may fall out of the first round. At least that is what we've been hearing of late. That surprises me. The reason: his jumper is so bad, teams think he can't be the offensive weapon that he could be.




...I'm fairly sure that Jay Williams is a better shooter.




> Dude, they are veteran players...same age as guys in the NBA, at like 30 years old you dont wanna go to a league and be a rookie. The new generation players are going to start coming over here as you can tell-take a lok at next year's mock-half the draft is freakin foreign


Just because they are veterans doesn't mean they are even college caliber.
And of the 2004 mock, only 2 guys are from Brazil, and both dont play in Brazilian leagues... one plays in Spain, the other on FC Barcelona. I know that Europe has quality players, but Brazil? Could you post a link describing Brazil leagues? Have you actually seen Barbosa play?


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## bullsinjection (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 
> 
> I wish I could go bakk and look at the schedule but its over now-I will post the next time there is a Brazilian game on-I didnt watch it


I'll look for it.

Thanks.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Only once


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 
> 
> Which is exactly what we need, he can penetrate and dish to Ray Allen and Rashgard Lewis-not to mention score the ball by driving to the hole-he is our guy-unlike J-Will who can barely dunk let alone shoot a freakin' jumper












I do believe that is 6'9" Darius Miles getting his stuff thrown by, if you watched the game, a 6'2" (at best) Jay Williams who ran him down from behind from halfcourt and swatted that ball.










Throw it down little fella, throw it down!


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Hey don't underestimate me....I watched atlest 50 Bulls games this year, I mean I posted here in the games forums for most of them :upset: Stupid Seattle/Chicago trades, they are ruining me on this board


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

don't bother looking for brazil games. He's in the states working out for teams. so far he's been to chicago, milwaukee, and golden state.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/NBA_SC-RUMOR

here's a good summary on him too. same agent as nene. if he works similar magic he might not last past golden state's pick.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/920990.asp



> The work is paying off. Just as Hilario slowly climbed the draft board before winding up at No. 7, Leandrinho probably wind up in the top 10 by draft day. He had two ho-hum workouts with the Bulls and Bucks last week, but excelled in outings for the Warriors and Sonics, lottery teams in need of a point guard. He’ll show his wares for about a dozen more teams, including the Pistons, Heat, Knicks and Grizzlies, all of whom have lottery picks.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> Hey don't underestimate me....I watched atlest 50 Bulls games this year, I mean I posted here in the games forums for most of them :upset: Stupid Seattle/Chicago trades, they are ruining me on this board


Jay will be special... The reason why he had a bad season is because management put him in a very bad situation. He couldn't relax and he couldn't play his style. 

Same goes for Jamal. 

I don't want to trade Jay, nor Jamal. I want them both starting in the same backcourt because they are both very dynamic, skilled guards and I think they'll be the best backcourt in the NBA provided they have a chance to prove it.

But to say he can't hit a J, or thrown one down, is *absoutely ludicrous*. Do I have to bring up his last month season analysis?


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