# Kobe accuser overdosed on pills 2 month's before, article inside



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/o...NEWS&subsection=NEWS&year=2003&month=7&day=20

Seems like Kobe's lawyers may have what they need to destroy her credibility. This changes things.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

OMG.

If this is true, then I believe an incredible disservice has been done Kobe Bryant.

This is a case of persecution, not prosecution. No wonder the D.A. didn't want those 911 tapes getting out.

If it's true.

If it's not, it's pure, unabashed and undeserved character assassination.

Let's see what develops...but I'm the opinion of one of the attorney's: if it's true, this case will never go to trial. Can you say dismissed?


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

But her close friends have been doggedly protecting a secret in the unnerving days since the 19-year-old woman accused Los Angeles Lakers All-Star Kobe Bryant of forcing her to have sex with him - a secret that Bryant's attorneys could use to undermine her credibility, legal experts say. 

Two months before the woman went to the Eagle County Sheriff's Department on July 1 alleging that Bryant had sexually assaulted her, the woman suffered under such mental anguish that she overdosed on pills and was rushed to a hospital, her friends told The Orange County Register.

My fault I forgot you had to be registered to view it , here's the important excerpt.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Register and read the entire story. It's fascinating...many attorney's quoted in there basically call it a bombshell for the defense, and potentially fatal for the prosecution.

Looking better for Kobe — *if true*.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ron</b>!
> OMG.
> 
> If this is true, then I believe an incredible disservice has been done Kobe Bryant.
> ...


I agree and disagree. Lets not assume that Kobe DID NOT do anything that night. I agree that this latest revelation calls into question her character but Kobe could have still raped her. I never thought he did but no evidence will prove or disprove that he raped her. The only thing that can be called into question is the girl's character and credibility and this certainly doesn't help. This is probably going to be her downfall and the case will probably be dismissed. However, that doesn't mean that Kobe didn't rape her.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree and disagree. Lets not assume that Kobe DID NOT do anything that night. I agree that this latest revelation calls into question her character but Kobe could have still raped her. I never thought he did but no evidence will prove or disprove that he raped her. The only thing that can be called into question is the girl's character and credibility and this certainly doesn't help. This is probably going to be her downfall and the case will probably be dismissed. However, that doesn't mean that Kobe didn't rape her.


This is true, but at this point the only way we'll ever know if Kobe actually raped her or not is if one of them just admits the contrary of what they're saying now. If that doesn't happen (and we know it won't) we'll NEVER know what REALLY happened. Whether Kobe is convicted or not doesn't prove either way whether he actually did it or didn't do it. All that really matters now is what lawyers on both sides can get a jury to believe. So this will probably wind up being a pretty big factor.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree and disagree. Lets not assume that Kobe DID NOT do anything that night. I agree that this latest revelation calls into question her character but Kobe could have still raped her. I never thought he did but no evidence will prove or disprove that he raped her. The only thing that can be called into question is the girl's character and credibility and this certainly doesn't help. This is probably going to be her downfall and the case will probably be dismissed. However, that doesn't mean that Kobe didn't rape her.


Agreed. You did not quote my entire post, where I stated that it is undeserved and unabashed character assassination if not true.

Obviously, he could have still raped her. But that is why a person's whole makeup is so critical to her testimony...if she is unstable and not credible, no weight can be given to her testimony and thus Kobe would be found innocent.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree and disagree. Lets not assume that Kobe DID NOT do anything that night. I agree that this latest revelation calls into question her character but Kobe could have still raped her. I never thought he did but no evidence will prove or disprove that he raped her. The only thing that can be called into question is the girl's character and credibility and this certainly doesn't help. This is probably going to be her downfall and the case will probably be dismissed. However, that doesn't mean that Kobe didn't rape her.


If Kobe were a known drug user would there be as much question about him raping this woman. NO. But this revelation points directly to this woman having an unstable mindset. Which to me is the crux of the matter. Was this an even thinking woman who accussed Kobe. This points to Kobe's credibility who's been above reproach. 

Could he still have raped her, certainly but I think a man with a spotless record of hardly ever making a misstep should be believed more than an unstable woman who seems to have credibility questions. 


One thing I will say the DA knew about this and still proceeded to charge Kobe. He knew this would come out. So he still must believe pretty strongly that there's evidence to warrant charging Kobe. OR he's the stupidest DA of all time who just wanted to try a high profile case. I tend to think a little of both are at play here though.


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## Coyat (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> If Kobe were a known drug user would there be as much question about him raping this woman. NO. But this revelation points directly to this woman having an unstable mindset. Which to me is the crux of the matter. Was this an even thinking woman who accussed Kobe. This points to Kobe's credibility who's been above reproach.
> ...


Ya, I agree that the DA must have some evidence he feels that is strong enough to convict Kobe.. I'm curious as to what it is. We can only just speculate, but it must be something no one thought of, IMO. I could be wrong though.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

One must take it in the context with which it is offered. It will help go to the foundation of Kobe's case that this woman is unstable and therefore unable to clearly view real life events. 

I would suggest it will become a key piece of groundwork in a buyers remorse defense. That said, its unlikely that this alone would end this case. We already know the DA is aware of the incident. 

While the character and history of the accuser and victim are both taken into consideration they should not be considered a guaranteed precursor of what the decision will be. Think Allen Iverson. If this were the case we would seemingly reject the ability of certain groups of the population from ever being victims.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I KNEW THEY WOULD FIND SOMETHING! 

And didn't the accuser and the Sheriff know eachother from when he taught her in the D.A.R.E Program? Fat lot of good he did then... 

(BTW Ron, I like your new avatar)


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> One must take it in the context with which it is offered. It will help go to the foundation of Kobe's case that this woman is unstable and therefore unable to clearly view real life events.
> 
> I would suggest it will become a key piece of groundwork in a buyers remorse defense. That said, its unlikely that this alone would end this case. We already know the DA is aware of the incident.
> ...


I agree with what I think your premise is and that is mentally unstable people can still be violated and believeable. If not then whenever they bring charges they would have no rights as Americans. 

I offer this in the AI case though. I have no doubt in my mind that AI took a gun and threatened the people involved. But he was essentially taking care of the people accusing him of the threats. So I can assume he told the people involved to shut this down and I'll break you off with some money. 

Also I think prior behavior may len to that person's reasoning to why she may have brought this allegations. 

Speculation

Just speculation but my thought on what may have happened. 

I think this is what likely happened. Kobe met this woman and flirted with her. She knew who he was and decided to go for it. She came to that room expectating a rendezvous and got one. They did the deed and afterwards she felt badly about doing it. Kobe may have dismissed her and felt badly himself. Married men tend to feel guilty about commiting adultery after the fact. So he wasn't so polite while already distressed the woman storms out of the room. She then sets this in motion feeling angry that another man has treated her unfairly ie the boyfriend. So she's gonna fix Kobe for doing this. 

I think a key to this case is gonna be 2 things 1 the physical evidence. Is there enough damage done to the woman and other areas of the hotel room that Kobe and his lawyers can't easily explained away. Vaginal brusing won't be strong enough because Kobe's experts will say otherwise. BUT actual brusing on the arms or face , Kobe's skin underneath her fingernails. Scratches on Kobe. 

And the second thing her state of mind right after the incident. Did anyone see her right afterward .


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

ESPN's Article 

_"This is powerful evidence and the answer to the defense's prayers," Robert Pugsley, a criminal law professor at Southwestern University School of Law in Los Angeles, said. Pugsley added that this kind of evidence, *if exploited by the defense, could be enough to shut down the case before it reaches trial.*_ 

As I said before, this whole issue could be resolved by August (maybe August 6th?).

The Prosecution may not wish to continue because Kobe's lawyers are just going to butcher her about that overdose.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with what I think your premise is and that is mentally unstable people can still be violated and believeable. If not then whenever they bring charges they would have no rights as Americans.
> ...


You make some good points Jazzy. 

It is easy to see the potential extremes of this case. On one hand you could allege Kobe is an unpublicized womanizer the same way MJ was, saw what he wanted and took it. Conversely, the woman is an unstable gold digger who saw an opportunity to cash it in and went for it. But, I do not believe either of these extremes is what likely occurred.

I would like to offer a pair of hypothetical possibilities. I only do this to point out to posters that both sides may have legitimate storylines for what really occurred. I do not claim to know any more about this case than what has been presented by the media. I present this with the intent to make it clear that we should not summarily dismiss either one at this point regardless of their personal backgrounds. Kobe very well may have had consensual sex with the woman and is being falsely accused. The woman very well may have been raped by Kobe. Either way, with that disclaimer having been made I'd like to have you consider the following possibilites. 

_
The young woman is summoned to the room and is happy to oblige because after all this person is a celebrity. She's had a pretty rough go of things lately and not only is this an exciting development we all know that it makes for a great story---I met Kobe Bryant and got to go up to his room and 'hang out'! So she goes to Kobe's room where she's initially greeted by Kobe and his bodyguards. They make small talk and Kobe quickly intoxicates her with his charm. Remember, this guy is about the most likable figure in the NBA before tonight. With things moving along in a real positive manner Kobe gauges the situation (his liklihood to become intimate with the woman) and the bodyguards leave because they have 'other things they need to take care of'. With the bodyguards now gone, Kobe begins to make physical contact.

At this point, depending on your belief you could follow either hypothetical ending.

(A)

The woman is responsive to Kobe, flattered that one of the most renowned celebrities in the world is showering his affection upon her. She becomes a willing participant in what will become intercourse. However, when Kobe has satisfied his urges, he summarily dismisses the woman. Yes, perhaps there would be tearing. Perhaps it was due to his size or her virginity. Perhaps 
some clothing was ripped as a slight altercation ensued after sex when the woman took offense to being shown the door. Perhaps she screamed and yelled at Kobe, "How could you do this to me you *******"? Perhaps she did have second thoughts having just had sex with an African American and realizing the stigma that may carry in her largely white community. Regardless, shown the door the woman is now very upset at what occurred. At home, she tells her family and the family rallies to her defense and a charge of rape is levied. The woman consented to the sex, but had a clear case of buyers remorse.

(B)

As the bodyguards leave the woman becomes less at ease, but is still happy to be in the company of one of the most renowned celebrities in the world. But Kobe begins to make sexual overtures toward her. The woman is confused. Unsure of what to do. She does not initially reject these overtures. Her mind is quickly searching for an answer... should she be flattered or should she stop this now? As clothing begins to be removed from her by Kobe she decides that NO, this is not what she wants. She decides to get out of here. But, in the words of Ray Romano, they have "just activated the launch sequence". Kobe snaps and as the woman struggles to end it she is now becoming the victim of forceable sex. A commotion is heard as she vehemently tries to ward him off and she leaves the room disshevleled after the incident has ended.

_


Bottom line? I think both stories are realistic possibilities. In no way am I suggesting any of this happend, just that it could have happened. That either side could very realistically be right or wrong.

And yes, because this woman will have a much tougher road ahead trying to prove her case against a wealthy and famous celebrity I say its time we break down this notion that we need to go "beyond, beyond reasonable doubt". That is hardly the premise the legal system was founded upon.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> I KNEW THEY WOULD FIND SOMETHING!
> 
> And didn't the accuser and the Sheriff know eachother from when he taught her in the D.A.R.E Program? Fat lot of good he did then...
> ...


Glad to hear that you're so excited that this girl attempted to commit suicide. That's disgusting **edited**. Seriously, you should be ashamed to get such excitement out of this news.

no need for name calling


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> You make some good points Jazzy.
> ...


Great Post Spartacus. The truth is somewhere in your post. It might have a little of both scenarios for all we know. My hope is that this case doesn't become racial. I would really hope that is not why charges were initially brought up. Because the last thing we need is to hear how Kobe is black and the female is white, we know that already. The media will be very influential in the court of public opinion.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> I KNEW THEY WOULD FIND SOMETHING!
> 
> And didn't the accuser and the Sheriff know eachother from when he taught her in the D.A.R.E Program? Fat lot of good he did then...
> ...


The 9-1-1 records were sealed and it was obvious they were eventually going to come out.

As for the D.A.R.E prgram, the Sheriff has already been quoted as saying he did not know the victim. Hundreds of kids went through that program.

As for your excitement, its peculiar how much like Bill Clinton Kobe's "I would never do something like that" was explained away as no harm no foul, but anything thats presented in a negative light concerning the victim will be 



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> I KNEW THEY WOULD FIND SOMETHING!


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## INDY (Jul 11, 2003)

Ken Griffey Jr. overdosed on aspirin in a suicide attempt in 1988.
I'm thinking that if I go and beat him up and take his money that I should be able to get off. After all, anyone that OD's on drugs has absolutely no credibility, regardless of the facts of the case.

I am also considering going down to the next casting call for American Idol with my friend that plays for the Denver Broncos. We should be able to sexually assault any girl that we want to and then play it off by calling them money grubbing scam artists in search of notoriety. 

I'll be sure to use the legal precedent established by all of you unbiased legal minds that have been posting on this thread if I end up in court. You guys won't let me down when I need you to back me up, right?


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## Nikihotgirl (Apr 13, 2003)

her friends reported to nydaily new that the accuser was at the movies friday night she went with friends to watch bad boys 2


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## Sleeperz (Feb 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nikihotgirl</b>!
> her friends reported to nydaily new that the accuser was at the movies friday night she went with friends to watch bad boys 2


wow. if this is true...then she doenst appear to be overly traumatized from this "rape" :no:


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## INDY (Jul 11, 2003)

Your denigrations of this girl sickens me. 

To think that life is so dreary that people would actually try to destroy the character of a 19 year old alleged rape victim to protect a guy that they depend on for a few hours of entertainment every week for four months a year.
There is something very wrong with that.

Your heroes reflect the type of person that you wish to become. 

Don't forget that.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INDY</b>!
> Your denigrations of this girl sickens me.


Excuse me, but where has this occurred here? I have read everything above, and I don't find anyone denigrating this woman.

I see a lot of considered opinions written about the news revelations today, but I don't see any "denigration." If I missed something, please point it out, and I will edit it.


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## BizzyRipsta (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sleeperz</b>!
> 
> 
> wow. if this is true...then she doenst appear to be overly traumatized from this "rape" :no:


so, because she went to go see a movie, she is not traumatized by the rape? the whole point for a rape victim is to try to continue living her life like normal, instead of letting the incident control her. i see no relevance to her questionably being raped and her going to see a movie.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

2 months is an awfully long time. I have known many people who were COMPLETELY depressed one week and recover within a relatively short period of time. She's a TEENAGER, don't you think she might have mood swings?

I don't think this "revelation" is enough to throw the case out the window. If that were to happen, it would be a terrible mistake. There isn't enough evidence to show that she doesn't know reality from her imagination.

Also- is it true that her friends are talking to the papers? If it is, then they are really crappy(that's the nice word) friends. First, they go spouting off that she hunts celebrities and now they tell the media that she goes to the movies. I'm pretty sure that she would want this stuff to be kept private. The media can blow things out of proportion.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BizzyRipsta</b>!
> so, because she went to go see a movie, she is not traumatized by the rape? the whole point for a rape victim is to try to continue living her life like normal, instead of letting the incident control her. i see no relevance to her questionably being raped and her going to see a movie.


Well, i beg to differ...
A rape causes great trauma to the victim, and shatters it's entire daily routine. In most cases the victim has big problems with getting out of the house or with contact to people.
It's not probable (i repeat, PROBABLE) that a rape victim would so casually go to the movies with friends in the following days... Where is the counseling? the medication?

Yes, the whole point for a rape victim is to try to continue living her life like normal.
But is it so easy?????


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Like A Breath</b>!
> She's a TEENAGER, don't you think she might have mood swings?


She's a grown as$ woman, and it's okay to have mood swings but when you try to commit suicide that's a whole different story.


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## INDY (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ron</b>!
> 
> 
> Excuse me, but where has this occurred here? I have read everything above, and I don't find anyone denigrating this woman.
> ...


Reporting that she went out to the movies with her friends is the type of twisted reporting that implies something without saying it. It leads people to say uninformed and ridiculous things like "she does not seem to be overly traumatized by this "rape." "

Granted it is merely a "considered opinion" but it does nothing but pose the woman in a negative light to those that are looking for ammo against her to protect their hero, Kobe.

The same goes for reporting a drug OD story that, while having nothing directly to do with the case, still negatively affects the alleged victim and justifies the irrational theories of people trying to make her look like a false accuser.

I'm sure that you are being very careful at this point not to post anything that could be construed as libelous or slanderous. Certainly the statements that have been posted are all merely "considered opinion's" but I don't like their tone considering the weight of the situation. I think the people that read news of a girls overdose and construe it as a positive thing are demented and wish nothing but ill will upon this girl. I think that they would like to hear about more defects in her character, unsubstantiated or not, related to the case or not. 


I don't want you to edit any posts like these, and I don't think that you would even if I asked you to, they are just carefully worded opinions and they are extremely honest, which is important. But I think many people here are dying for her to slip up and until then will use any opportunity and any piece of information they can to cast aspersions upon her character.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INDY</b>!
> The same goes for reporting a drug OD story that, while having nothing directly to do with the case, still negatively affects the alleged victim and justifies the irrational theories of people trying to make her look like a false accuser.


You clearly do not understand the law, sir. The character and medical and mental history (not sexual, see rape-shield law) of the alleged victim *directly* impacts her credibility, and is fully acceptable as evidence in a trial such as this (see about a million precedents in such cases).

As far as your allegations of "denigration" of such victim, I guess we now can put that baby to bed. 

Damn straight we are careful in regard to slander. This is a bulletin-board site, for chrissake. Why do you think we edit things, anyway?


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## INDY (Jul 11, 2003)

Ron, I didn't realize that you were so thoroughly informed of the legal implications that her drug overdose would have on the case. Clearly, you are more informed than I. 

Perhaps you would be kind enough to fill me in on the details of the overdose. What kind of drugs were involved? What was the timeline of events that would prove that this case of overdose was intentional? How have they proven that the source who reported the information is credible? Please explain. 

Oh, and please give me a few of those "millions " of legal precedents that show how a girl overdosing on drugs (which you will show me was intentional, of course) undermined her credibilty as an alleged rape victim. It shouldn't be difficult since there are so many that you know about off the top of your head.

Educate me, maestro!!


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INDY</b>!
> Ron, I didn't realize that you were so thoroughly informed of the legal implications that her drug overdose would have on the case. Clearly, you are more informed than I.
> 
> Perhaps you would be kind enough to fill me in on the details of the overdose. What kind of drugs were involved? What was the timeline of events that would prove that this case of overdose was intentional? How have they proven that the source who reported the information is credible? Please explain.
> ...


I have been a professional in the legal field for over 16 years. I do know the application of law, having applied it in my line of work for over 20 years in the federal sector. I'm not a lawyer, but I am a law enforcement officer.

(As I've stated elsewhere, we all want our "pub." I think Sheriff Barney wanted more than just his 15 minutes.)

If you want to go head to head over such issues, I don't believe you would prevail.

If you will note, I have consistently pointed out "if the stories are true." You seem to have already made the assumption that they are. I have not.

But don't take my word for it. (You wouldn't anyway.) Let's see what some attorneys are saying about it:

_Legal experts say an overdose and the woman's apparent mental instability could undermine her credibility in what is bound to be a trial of character, pitting a young, small-town woman against a popular big-city basketball hero who makes more than $11 million a year selling his wholesome image.

"This is powerful evidence and the answer to the defense's prayers," said Robert Pugsley, a criminal law professor at Southwestern University School of Law in Los Angeles.

The defense attorneys are "looking for a way to demonstrate that this woman is hysterical and over-reactive," Pugsley said. "This is literally dynamite evidence, a bonanza for the defense and a landmine for prosecution."

Pugsley said this kind of evidence, if exploited by the defense, could be enough to stop the case before it reaches trial.

"(Bryant's defense attorneys) could say that her interpretation of the events is at total odds with what really occurred, which was an act of mutual intercourse."

Another legal expert said this information could cause the prosecutor to worry.

"Emotional instability is always of great concern when you are evaluating a witness's credibility," said Paul Meyer, a former Orange County homicide prosecutor and criminal defense attorney._


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Hmmm...

Hysterics...

Over-reactive...

Emotional instability...

etc.

These experts seem to believe all of the above *is* admissable evidence.

Far be it for me to contradict them. Perhaps you have something that would discredit these legal experts, INDY?


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Indy,

Are you sure your not just trying ignore everything that might support Kobe?

In cases of rape accusations, character becomes a huge part of the case. Especially if there is not any physical brusing on say the arms or something.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

INDY hasn't said one thing in support (or even possible support) of Kobe's position. He is clearly biased and I don't know why the hell I continue to bother myself with this guy.

I just noticed he's only been here 10 days. Probably all 38 posts are on Kobe. I'm beginning to see the full picture in regards to this guy.


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## INDY (Jul 11, 2003)

Let's cut through the BS here, guy. I had a long post written in legalese that shows how you are assuming that this story is credible without knowing any of the facts. You can spout off about everything that will happen once she is ruled to be "emotionally unstable" and then back off of it by throwing in a "if the story is true" but it's obvious that you don't believe the victim is credible (or more like subconciously believe that Kobe could never do this for some weird reason).

So why don't you just come out and say it, you will never believe that Kobe could do this. Come on, it's so obvious! You are not objective in the least. Just admit that your opinion hasn't changed one iota since you first heard the allegations. You will believe anything to protect your image of Kobe. Blame the victim and blame the authorities (how long did that avatar take you to make?) Just don't even consider that Kobe would rape a girl. I think that you need to ask yourself some questions like "why am I so defensive of Kobe when I don't even know the guy?" I'm sorry, I shouldn't assume that, do you know Kobe personally? Is that how you know that he could never do this?

You see, I run across a lot of people like you on this board. I like to point out how crazy you look in your defense of a man that you don't even know and are so certain of the character of other people that you don't know (the authorities in Colorado and the victim).

So just come out and say it!! Be honest !! Don't hide behind anymore "if the story is true" remarks. Your sentiments are obvious!


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

So are yours.

With that, I am done with discussing anything with you personally. It is clear you do not want to discuss this issue fairly and intelligently, nor do you wish to address the legitimate concerns I have made in response to your posts.

I cannot put you on ignore, as much as I would like. But I wouldn't blame other posters on this board from doing so.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INDY</b>!
> Let's cut through the BS here, guy. I had a long post written in legalese that shows how you are assuming that this story is credible without knowing any of the facts. You can spout off about everything that will happen once she is ruled to be "emotionally unstable" and then back off of it by throwing in a "if the story is true" but it's obvious that you don't believe the victim is credible (or more like subconciously believe that Kobe could never do this for some weird reason).
> 
> So why don't you just come out and say it, you will never believe that Kobe could do this. Come on, it's so obvious! You are not objective in the least. Just admit that your opinion hasn't changed one iota since you first heard the allegations. You will believe anything to protect your image of Kobe. Blame the victim and blame the authorities (how long did that avatar take you to make?) Just don't even consider that Kobe would rape a girl. I think that you need to ask yourself some questions like "why am I so defensive of Kobe when I don't even know the guy?" I'm sorry, I shouldn't assume that, do you know Kobe personally? Is that how you know that he could never do this?
> ...


What happened to innocent before proven guilty? I thought in our legal system the burden was on the prosecution to prove their case? They haven't given us anything so far, but we know:

- Kobe is tall, good looking, famous and rich and therefore desirable by numerous females
- Numerous females target celebrities to try to scam them out of money. More often in rape cases against NBA players the defendants were the ones going to jail for perjury
- The accuser tried to kill herself a month ago
- Kobe has no history of anything illegal

In fairness we know against Kobe
- He orginally lied against commiting adultery

So yes I do think Kobe is innocent and uncapable of this crime until the prosecution proves otherwise. But not because he is Kobe, but because that's the way our legal system works.

I won't feel any sympathy towards the accuser until more facts are heard and at this point I certainly care more about the Laker season than I do her.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*My Two Cents*

Most Lakers fans I know are willing to be objective. They hope the girl, and Kobe can get their lives together. But there are some who are so pathetic, so rabid for another Lakers championship, they rejoice at hearing of this girl's prior problems. While the information may help Kobe's OJ-style defense team get him off, it doesn't suggest that he didn't rape her.
Kobe's press conference was disgusting. He may have raped her. I hope you enjoy your next championship; I'm sure you'll sleep well knowing that Kobe may or may not have ruined someone's life.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree and disagree. Lets not assume that Kobe DID NOT do anything that night. I agree that this latest revelation calls into question her character but Kobe could have still raped her. I never thought he did but no evidence will prove or disprove that he raped her. The only thing that can be called into question is the girl's character and credibility and this certainly doesn't help. This is probably going to be her downfall and the case will probably be dismissed. However, that doesn't mean that Kobe didn't rape her.


The problem with this is that Kobe's credibility has also come into question. Both lawyers will dig deep to uncover many of their secrets and you are CORRECT nothing has so far proved that Kobe did not do it. Hopefully he didn't and this whole nightmare can end but the fact is that Kobe should not have put himself in this situation in the first place. Overdosing on pills 2 months before does not really have anything to do with the night in question. The only thing that has been proven true so far is Kobe's intention to commit adultery with the alleged rape victim. Even if she took drugs at the night in question she could still have very well have been raped as she alleges. Only Kobe and that girl really know what happened that night...sadly both don't see eye to eye. What is even worse is that their sexual exploits will now be shared with the public. Definitely the worst way to admit that you cheated on your spouse. :no:


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> He orginally lied against commiting adultery.


He didn't lie.:no:
"Why do people keep insisting that he lied about having sex with this woman until he was charged? He withheld information from us, the public. I highly doubt he waited until he was charged before telling his wife exactly what happened. Why should he have to get millions of people involved in his public affairs before he absolutely has to? If you were in Kobe's shoes and had cheated on your wife, would you immediately proclaim it to the whole world? Of course not, it isn't any of their business. It is between you and your wife, and that is it. So for any of you who keep talking about Kobe lying to us, just remember that it wasn't any of our business to begin with, so it wasn't as if we had some "right" to know what really went on. That information only became valid to us once he was officially charged with a crime. Therefore, until anything is proved in the court of law, you guys need to stop shouting "guilty" because he supposedly lied to you."


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dont know if this has been said, but I dont have the time to read 3 pages. This is to the Lakers fans:

When this Kobe stuff all started, you all cut everyone down for assuming that the accusations were true, telling us all to wait until some solid evidence came in to support it. So where do you all get off jumping all over this? Where your proof towards the things being said about this girl? Oh wait, there isnt any as far as I know. You called out people just a few days ago for doing the same thing, grow up.

Everyone needs to calm down and quit attacking. No one realy knows enough about this yet to make a decision. Did Kobe rape her? Maybe, maybe not. We dont decide, the court does. So like I said, everyone calm down, name calling wont settle this, only time and the justice system will.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> 
> He didn't lie.:no:
> "Why do people keep insisting that he lied about having sex with this woman until he was charged? He withheld information from us, the public. I highly doubt he waited until he was charged before telling his wife exactly what happened. Why should he have to get millions of people involved in his public affairs before he absolutely has to? If you were in Kobe's shoes and had cheated on your wife, would you immediately proclaim it to the whole world? Of course not, it isn't any of their business. It is between you and your wife, and that is it. So for any of you who keep talking about Kobe lying to us, just remember that it wasn't any of our business to begin with, so it wasn't as if we had some "right" to know what really went on. That information only became valid to us once he was officially charged with a crime. Therefore, until anything is proved in the court of law, you guys need to stop shouting "guilty" because he supposedly lied to you."


Let me be out front immediately. Kobe doesn't need much defense on this board. With that said, I'd like to address the topic with respect to the victim and 'a night at the movies'.

There is nothing and I repeat nothing wrong with the victim trying to live a normal life at this point. The victim need not be hunkered down at her home until this is all over. No logical, decent person would rightfully attack this person for trying to move forward and put the pieces back together again.

And I know Laker fans must certainly share this point of view because I have not found the corresponding attacks on Kobe for attending the ESPYs. Based on the clips I've seen, Kobe was completely enjoying the event with his wife.

Which of course leads me to my final and puzzling comparison of Kobe enjoying his night out at the ESPYs on one night and then being 'completely torn apart' two nights later with his wife at the press conference. If Kobe didn't mean he didn't have sex with the woman when he said "I would never do something like that" and only meant he wouldn't sexually assault someone like that as is now suggested, why the big change from Wednesday night to Friday night? Obviously if fans understood what he meant his wife certainly did, right? But see, thats where I get real confused. So his wife, like fans understood he meant he had sex with the woman but it was merely consensual. She seemed pretty good with that on Wednesday night, but it all seemed to be 'not so good' on Friday night. *I could really use some clarification on this point in particular. Any takers?*


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Which of course leads me to my final and puzzling comparison of Kobe enjoying his night out at the ESPYs on one night and then being 'completely torn apart' two nights later with his wife at the press conference. If Kobe didn't mean he didn't have sex with the woman when he said "I would never do something like that" and only meant he wouldn't sexually assault someone like that as is now suggested, why the big change from Wednesday night to Friday night? Obviously if fans understood what he meant his wife certainly did, right? But see, thats where I get real confused. So his wife, like fans understood he meant he had sex with the woman but it was merely consensual. She seemed pretty good with that on Wednesday night, but it all seemed to be 'not so good' on Friday night. *I could really use some clarification on this point in particular. Any takers?*


I totally understand where you are getting at. Mind you most of the people here probably understand what "you know I wouldn't do anything like that" meant. Well those over 18 would. Them being at the ESPY's leads me to believe that his lawyers counted their chickens before they were hatched and put Kobe in a precarious position. He shouldn't have been there, but they most likely told him to go have a good time. I think they are still dealing with it internally, but I also think that Vanessa is now very embarrassed in the media. 

If this happened and the charges were dropped she wouldn't have to hear about it every night on the TV, but she still would be dealing with Kobe. But it being played out on national TV on every single station couldn't sit too well with this woman for sure.

I also agree that if the woman wants to go to a movie that is fine. Why shouldn't she? What I really think should happen is a gag order on the press in this town, because far too many people are talking in this case that really don't seem to know much about this female either. 

When I have to hear she is a sweet girl who kept to herself a lot, that leads me to believe that they were acquaintances and did not speak that often. If you are going to speak to the media, don't be a friend of a friend, because it just makes you look like an idiot and gets all kinds of nonsense out into the open.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> I totally understand where you are getting at. Mind you most of the people here probably understand what "you know I wouldn't do anything like that" meant. Well those over 18 would. Them being at the ESPY's leads me to believe that his lawyers counted their chickens before they were hatched and put Kobe in a precarious position. He shouldn't have been there, but they most likely told him to go have a good time. I think they are still dealing with it internally, but I also think that Vanessa is now very embarrassed in the media.
> ...


Messiah my friend, you indeed get it. You and others like you are what will make this a fine board. I already feel the conversation has been elevated here and with posters like you this board should be able to intelligently debate the merits of this case from now until its conclusion. Props my friend.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

When somebody's opinion is parallel to those of yours then only they "get it" is it?

If Kobe and Vanessa were to go to ESPY's that night still carrying all the sad nervous looking faces they got from facing this case they would rather stay home. Of course ESPY's would not be the best place to show off the tension Kobe is having with Vanessa. 

If you and your wife have this huge huge problem, would you go to your Mom's and Pop's wedding anniversary showing off all this tension? I bet you won't, same with Kobe and his wife, ESPY's wasn't meant for that. ESPY's could be just an image cover-up for all we know, showing that they are completely calm dealing with the case. 

Of course the press conference was so much difference. Would you smile, laugh, looking all so happy when you are charged with sexual assault in front of so much media coverage? The question was "what's with the sudden change of mood from Wed to Fri?", however it wasn't about that, it was more about the appropriarity of the places in showing those two completely different moods.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RSP83</b>!
> When somebody's opinion is parallel to those of yours then only they "get it" is it?
> 
> If Kobe and Vanessa were to go to ESPY's that night still carrying all the sad nervous looking faces they got from facing this case they would rather stay home. Of course ESPY's would not be the best place to show off the tension Kobe is having with Vanessa.
> ...


Thanks RSP83, I give you props for *trying* to clear that up for me. Of course, you didn't, but I didn't want you to feel left out.

In reality, I don't think you get it. At least not this. Pure and simple, if Kobe and his wife were accurately depicted at the press conference, the depiction at the ESPYs should have been quite impossible. These diametrically opposed 'performances' simply cannot be reconciled. We are not talking about Kobe on the night of the incident and Kobe afterwards. We're talking about Kobe afterwards and Kobe afterwards. We're talking about two days apart. We're talking about a man who wants everyone to believe that he betrayed the love of his life. So exactly why does the love of his life have to put on a happy face and go to an event to prove to the world they're ok? Are you kidding me? I know of NO SPOUSE who has so obviously been wronged that would be so willing to put on that happy face during such trying times. And what kind of a man would ask the love of his life to do this after he just committed the ultimate betrayal? He had not even been charged at this point. Alternatively, you could simply agree that it cuts into Kobe's credibility as did his initial misleading of the public that nothing happened.

If we're going to have an intelligent discourse on this subject, we need to fairly question the motives and actions of each of the participants not simply the victims. Kobe has some serious credibility issues concerning his initial denials, his merry night at the ESPYs and then his emotional admissions at the press conference. The last thing Kobe wants is to be convicted. The next to last thing Kobe wants is to be thought of as OJ - guility but free. If the victim isn't going to get a free ride here, Kobe won't either regardless of whether its the Lakers board or not.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Interesting article, IMO, about Kobe's actions and it's reflection in the NBA.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=57270&ran=186543


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## Minge (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks RSP83, I give you props for *trying* to clear that up for me. Of course, you didn't, but I didn't want you to feel left out.
> ...


I won't say whether i beleive Kobe to be innocent or guilty here, but something just popped into my head while reading the last few posts...

It is entirely possible that Mr. and Mrs. Bryant have a slightly "unconventional" marriage, wherein they both sleep with other people as well as (or perhaps even "but not") each other. Such couples are unnusual, but it does happen. If this were the case, it would be easy to understand how they could be happy together and deeply emotional a couple of days aftwerwards - Vanessa Bryant wouldn't view what had happened as a betrayal, it was just part of their marriage, which they were both happy with. At the press conference however, they had to show at least part of their private life to the world, something i don't think anybody would be happy with being essentially forced to do. Plus, they were both almost certainly scared ****less at the prospect that Kobe might actually go to jail for a considerable length of time.

I would be incredibly surprised if their relationship is like this, but it is a possibility. It just occured to me when you said "I know of NO SPOUSE who has so obviously been wronged that would be so willing to put on that happy face. . .", i thought to myself "hang on... I do!", so i thought i'd point out that, at least in theory, the two 'performances' COULD be reconciled


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minge</b>!
> 
> 
> I won't say whether i beleive Kobe to be innocent or guilty here, but something just popped into my head while reading the last few posts...
> ...


This is strange Minge. I guess they could be swingers, but to me every NBA player doesn't have that many problems avoiding temptation the way a T-mac, KG and Kobe would. 

A guy like Eric Piatkowski or David Wingate, I doubt has chicks to fight off, but that could just be me.


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## Coyat (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks RSP83, I give you props for *trying* to clear that up for me. Of course, you didn't, but I didn't want you to feel left out.
> ...


Regarding the ESPY's, I heard on ESPN or CNN (one of those 2 channels that were covering the press conference) that Kobe showed up because he didn't think there would be charges. So, Kobe and his wife went to enjoy the event. If you were being honored for lets say the Oscars, and there were rumors of you having an affair with another woman and the media was covering your every move, would you want to appear nervous and distraught? Prolly not. Think about it, Kobe knew about the ESPY's long before the incident occurred and knew he would be honored to be there. He had every right to go. If this 19 yr old woman has every right to go to the movies, Kobe has every right to appear at the ESPY's.

I agree with you when you say that the 'victim' was going to the movies to show that this incident wasn't getting to her. I believe that the same can be said for Kobe showing up at the ESPY's. If he _didn't_ go, wouldn't the media ask the same amount of questions? It was a lose-lose situation for him because no matter what, the media would eat it up. Therefore, Kobe decides to go to the event and have a good time.. get his mind out of the issue.

Second, you find it odd how Vanessa Bryant reacted at the Press Conference. Remember, they have private lives behind the cameras.. maybe she already *****ed him out prior (most likely IMO) But seriously.. she, as Kobe's wife, was there to offer support. If Kobe says he didn't rape the woman, and Vanessa believes that and believes that the allegations are false, then she wants to support her man.. they are married and married couples stick with it through thick and thin (well not all.. but they're supposed to)


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Coyat</b>!
> 
> 
> Second, you find it odd how Vanessa Bryant reacted at the Press Conference. Remember, they have private lives behind the cameras.. maybe she already *****ed him out prior (most likely IMO) But seriously.. she, as Kobe's wife, was there to offer support. If Kobe says he didn't rape the woman, and Vanessa believes that and believes that the allegations are false, then she wants to support her man.. they are married and married couples stick with it through thick and thin (well not all.. but they're supposed to)


So, WHAT do you think she believes:

* He sleeps with unknown women often

* Should I be tested for STDs

* He actually voluntarily penetrated another woman, but says he loves me

* No, he didn't take it from her, she gave it up so it's ok ... serves her right. He still loves me

* I'm leaving and taking 1/2 of what he has when this is over. He should have done as his parents told him and signed a pre-nup because I am out of here. I don't have to take this. Sure am happy that we live in LA.

Just what do you thin Vanessa is thinking, while she's standing by her man


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## ShowTmeBALLA (Jul 18, 2003)

i thought they had a pre-nup?


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> Just what do you think Vanessa is thinking, while she's standing by her man


Why are people worrying about what this woman is thinking? You don't know her AT ALL, so how the hell can he guess what she is thinking? You shouldn't even be discussing Vanessa because NO ONE knows her.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*OMG....ROFLMAO*



> Originally posted by <b>Ron</b>!
> OMG.
> 
> If this is true, then I believe an incredible disservice has been done Kobe Bryant.
> ...


Can U say wishful thinking mr laker fan??? This is how it always is. This is the OLDEST ploy in the book. Discredit the accuser. IF he had sex with her(which he admitted to) why is it so hard to believe he did not force her to do something???? You laker fans slay me....disservice indeed! lol


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShowTmeBALLA</b>!
> i thought they had a pre-nup?


I recall reading that when they were first married, that was some of his family's argument against the marriage --- that Kobe didn't think he needed a pre-nup. I could have misunderstood.


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> I recall reading that when they were first married, that was some of his family's argument against the marriage --- that Kobe didn't think he needed a pre-nup. I could have misunderstood.


I heard in the radio this morning that Kobe does not have a pre-nup.

In addtion, as photos of her where floating around the internet, apparently, members of the Denver Nuggets claim she is definately a "NBA Groupie"


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ghiman</b>!
> 
> 
> I heard in the radio this morning that Kobe does not have a pre-nup.
> ...


This is the part of the case where I have been waiting for the fact to transcend the innuendo. It still would not prove that Kobe did not rape the victim, but it would seriously begin to damage her own credibility. So it has now been narrowed down to the Nuggets according to your post, but I'm still waiting a credible source. Are you aware of any?


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## Coyat (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> So, WHAT do you think she believes:
> ...


I personally don't really care about Vanessa (other than the fact that she's fine). I agree with Bunk on this one, doesn't matter what she's thinking. We can only speculate and even that wouldn't solve anything.


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## INDY (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> This is the part of the case where I have been waiting for the fact to transcend the innuendo. It still would not prove that Kobe did not rape the victim, but it would seriously begin to damage her own credibility. So it has now been narrowed down to the Nuggets according to your post, but I'm still waiting a credible source. Are you aware of any?


D'uh, credible source? Aren't the words (actually a paraphrase) of Mr. "Members of the Denver Nuggets" good enough? 

Free Kobe!! He may be an adulterer and a fraud but he's a great man! I know because I watch him play basketball a lot.


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