# Dwight Howard - On a mission from God



## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1769153


> Dwight's commandments
> And it shall (and) will come to pass that Dwight Howard II will surpass LeBron James for the best high school basketball player, college player and NBA player. Amen.
> 
> And it shall (and) will come to pass that Dwight Howard II would stand head and shoulders over 2004 prospects in the name of Jesus. Will he do it? Amen.
> ...


What do you guys think? Sounds like he wants to 'save' the non-Christians of the NBA. I even heard that he wants a cross on the NBA logo :laugh: 
Well, being Christian myself, I dunno what to think. He sounds like a good kid, but like I said, I just dunno what to think about this. 
Here's another article about him:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/mike_fish/03/02/howard.insider/


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

"Well, good luck with all _that_."


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> "Well, good luck with all _that_."


haha. Perfect.

For real though...kid seems nuttier than a fruit cake on a porn shoot.

He's going to see things in his first week in the NBA that will make his head explode.

And what is this favorite movie "Finding Nemo" garbage?

I mean...that would be fine if Dwight was a 12 year old girl...but c'mon now. See more Movies Dwight.

I think I read somewhere that Kobe Bryant was kind of like this in that he didn't see his first rated R movie until he was in the NBA...and we saw how well adjusted he turned out.

I really think Dwight should have gone to college first. You get exposed to so much in college, it can really open your horizons more, but yet it's safer than just being thrown right into the fire of the NBA road life.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

As long as he's playiong basketball and doing his best.

I'd rather have him be a zealot than a burnout.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Maybe he's the next David Robinson.


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## RyGuY43084 (Jul 15, 2002)

I dunno, I do give him Props for trying to DO SOMETHING... I don't think he should be Dogged just because He expresses his belief in God.... Maybe changing the NBA logo is a LITTTLE EXTREME... but over time He will back down.... He is a GOOD kid, Great head on his shoulders, I would LOVE to see him on my team!


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Howard got abused by Randolph Morris, whos going to college. Thats all I gotsta say.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> "LeBron James has an unusual fire in him,'' says a top college coach. "You don't have to worry about Dwight getting in trouble off the court. They don't come any better than this kid. But he doesn't really know how to play hard yet. See, LeBron knew how to play hard coming in the door. I watched him several times in AAU competitions and here was a kid who took no prisoners. Dwight sometimes can have fun out there and fun stops when you get up to that level.''


By the way, can we say Kwame Brown?


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

from everything i've seen, dwight howard seems quite overrated.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I can hear the soccer moms now...


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

Wow. I think thats pretty awesome, I give him my blessing on that.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I really think Dwight should have gone to college first. You get exposed to so much in college, it can really open your horizons more, but yet it's safer than just being thrown right into the fire of the NBA road life.


He should have gone to the University of Colorado. :laugh: I'd love to see him at one of those sex parties.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> By the way, can we say Kwame Brown?


Yea you can, Dwight Howard in his first year will do what Kwame did towards the end of this season but with much more consistency. In February Brown averaged 13.2 points and 7.6 rebounds and in March he averageed 11.8 and 8.6. But he would have monster games followed by games where he didn't do much. I expect Dwight to put up similiar #s to what Kwame had over those two months.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I really hope he stays strong in his faith. I would hate to see him fall into temptation of the NBA and doesn't practice what he preaches. If you're christian or just logical, you would know that the devil would target people like him. 1) devil tempts people with high moral standards 2) gets tempted 3) non-christians see hypocrisy.
the bigger they are, the harder they fall.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Too bad #3 won't come to pass. Wonder if that will shake his faith in GOD. Amen.:grinning:


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I think his strong beliefs will help him stay disciplined and motivated, but it makes you think.

Will he have that killer instinct to want to truly dominate his opponent when he needs to? Is it Christian to want to annihilate your enemy? These kind of extremist comments are turning me off a little on him. As a devout Christian, he's going into the wrong business. 

He should be a Muslim, they've had much better success in the league.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> "Well, good luck with all _that_."


:laugh:

Well, more power to him. I have respect for a guy who can stick to his guns like this even when he'll obviously have a lot of pressure to loosen up a bit. That's also a helluva lot of discipline for an 18 year old on the cusp of having whatever the hell he wants.


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

I just dont see what all the hoopla is about over him...I only saw him play ywice but he didnt stand out..I felt the same way when I saw Kwame Brown play in HS..When you watch amare, KG, kobe, Melo, Lebron, okafor you can tell they were/are going to be good...All this High school stuff needs to stop unless they are flat out better then the competition...I', glad he is on a mission from god because he is going to need him


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

The new David Wood...


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Dwight Howard has been in Southwest Christian Academy since he four this guy will need major adjustments because I think they brainwashed him


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

This is great for the league! It needs a good Christian role-model. That be great for him to become the next D.Robinson. Maby he can help clean up the league. And even more important help save souls for Jesus!


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> This is great for the league! It needs a good Christian role-model. That be great for him to become the next D.Robinson. Maby he can help clean up the league. And even more important help save souls for Jesus!


:laugh:


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Y is that funny?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

He is a highschool basketball player, not Mother Theresa.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> I think his strong beliefs will help him stay disciplined and motivated, but it makes you think.
> 
> Will he have that killer instinct to want to truly dominate his opponent when he needs to? Is it Christian to want to annihilate your enemy? These kind of extremist comments are turning me off a little on him. As a devout Christian, he's going into the wrong business.
> ...


 Are you implying that all Muslims are militant and merciless killers ?


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

So, he can still be used, just as you could if you were willing.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I don't like to be "used".


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Used by God to touch(dont be perverted) others. If you will go to church and open yourself up to what He can do then you wont be able to think of anything better than to be used by God.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> Used by God to touch(dont be perverted) others. If you will go to church and open yourself up to what He can do then you wont be able to think of anything better than to be used by God.


If you ever come knocking on my door at six in the morning, I'm chasing you off with my toaster.


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## bruno34115 (Apr 14, 2003)

I saw him on sportscenter and the fact that he is a strong christian and puts god ahead of everything makes me like him more than i ever have.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Let's hope he can become a dedicated professional.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

i thought he was a great kid, then i heard about his idea to have a cross put on the nba logo, i thought he was joking, but when i realized he was dead serious, i realized he's a nut. HOw's he going do deal with all the cussing and other goings of the clubhouse? I dont see how he'll deal with that situation.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>knickstorm</b>!
> i thought he was a great kid, then i heard about his idea to have a cross put on the nba logo, i thought he was joking, but when i realized he was dead serious, i realized he's a nut. HOw's he going do deal with all the cussing and other goings of the clubhouse? I dont see how he'll deal with that situation.


Exactly man. He's going to find himself very uncomfortable in the NBA.


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## Snicka (Dec 29, 2003)

So muslims get praised for fasting during the season and all that, but a kid wants to proclaim his christian faith and people call him a wacko. 

And I love the comment about how he should be muslim so he can win.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Snicka</b>!
> So muslims get praised for fasting during the season and all that, but a kid wants to proclaim his christian faith and people call him a wacko.
> 
> And I love the comment about how he should be muslim so he can win.


Muslims have led NBA championship teams, and Christians have not. At least, not yet. That is all that I am saying.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

Someone said Kobe Bryant was like this also?

Awesome, Dwight will be raping white teenage girls in no time.

*2000!!!*


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## Snicka (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jmk</b>!
> Someone said Kobe Bryant was like this also?
> 
> Awesome, Dwight will be raping white teenage girls in no time.
> ...


Since when did Howard become the next Deshawn Steveson?


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

> Muslims have led NBA championship teams, and Christians have not. At least, not yet. That is all that I am saying.


Ever hear of a man named David Robinson? Two of his teammates, Avery Johnson and some other dude who i cant remember the name of were also Christians.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> Used by God to touch(dont be perverted) others. If you will go to church and open yourself up to what He can do then you wont be able to think of anything better than to be used by God.


I get enough religous salesmanship door to door. Sell it someplace else.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Well you need to hear this until it sinks in and until then i have not completed my objective.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

You guys are all the same. :laugh:


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Those commandments are really hilarious. Is he talking about himself in the 3rd person too?

Can't wait to see Amare vs Howard next season to get him back to reality.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

This is reality and more important than anything else, even basketball which is pretty important to me.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Reality and religion in the same breath. :laugh:


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

Check out the signature boys and girls.....

 

Nuff respect *takeanumber3333*


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> 
> 
> Ever hear of a man named David Robinson? Two of his teammates, Avery Johnson and some other dude who i cant remember the name of were also Christians.


It was Duncan...not David


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

it was duncan, and david


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Im not sure about Duncan but i am positive about Robinson.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Blowuptheraptors- You seem to only be throwing out steryotypes(sp?) of Christians and very untrue ones at that. Im sorry if you offended or hurt or mislead by any Christian, but we are not all the same.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Reality and religion in the same breath. :laugh:


Religion is reality. It depends what kind of religion your talking about, if its Christianity...then thats reality. Its not an opinion its a fact.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Tristan</b>!
> 
> 
> Religion is reality. It depends what kind of religion your talking about, if its Christianity...then thats reality. Its not an opinion its a fact.


Whatever gets you through the day. I would expect no different from someone with a Texas Christian avatar.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Why not? Some people that go to Christian School arent Christian. Thats another steryotype my man. Maby you should try a couple different churchs and see if you like them?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Church? Last time I checked, the Holy Roman Empire doesn't exist anymore and thus there is no need to fear nor worship their concoction.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Well God does exist and there is a need to worship and many props to those who do.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

As long as those who do, live and let live without trying to actively either convert people or hurt people, I have no problems.

Problem is, many people are not satisfied quietly worshipping in their own way. They attach an agenda to religion, or hide behind it in order to do evil, or insist that others must believe in what they believe.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> As long as those who do, live and let live without trying to actively either convert people or hurt people, I have no problems.
> 
> Problem is, many people are not satisfied quietly worshipping in their own way. They attach an agenda to religion, or hide behind it in order to do evil, or insist that others must believe in what they believe.


You're right. 

Do me a favour. Please do not be ignorant to the truth based on other people's behaviour. Please take the time to seek God out for yourself and then make a decision based on what you've discovered.

I do not insist that anyone follow me as I follow Christ. I can only encourage you to make a responsible decision.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Rockstone</b>!
> 
> Do me a favour. Please do not be ignorant to the truth based on other people's behaviour. Please take the time to seek God out for yourself and then make a decision based on what you've discovered.


I made my decision a long time ago based on tangible evidence, science and history. 

Be it that the "truth" as you put it comes from faith, not evidence, I would ask that you not describe people who do not share your beliefs ignorant people. 

The definition of ignorant:
1. Lacking education or knowledge. 
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake. 
3. Unaware or uninformed. 

I am neither uneducated nor unaware.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> I made my decision a long time ago based on tangible evidence, science and history.


What tangiable evidence is there? What has science proven? What does history tell you?



> Be it that the "truth" as you put it comes from faith, not evidence


Both actually.



> I would ask that you not describe people who do not share your beliefs ignorant people.


Please do not make false accusations. I did not describe you as ignorant. I described the method through which you've drawn your conclusion as ignorant. 

People who do not share my beliefs are not ignorant. People who do not take the time to be educated about anything will obviously be ignorant to that thing.

For example...

I do not know anything about how my writing gets on the computer screen when I use the keyboard. However, I have faith that when I touch the keys, the writing will show up. 

You could argue that, there is evidence to prove that my writing shows up when I type using the keyboard, but which would you say comes first?

Faith that my typing will show up, or the evidence that my typing has shown up?

I say that to say, unless you have faith first, you'll never see the evidence.



> The definition of ignorant:
> 1. Lacking education or knowledge.
> 2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
> 3. Unaware or uninformed.
> ...


If not, prove it.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

This discussion has gone way off topic. If you would like to discuss this further, I can be PM'd. The choice is yours.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I've had this discussion in person before with people like yourself. It does not matter what physical evidence I would raise nor would it matter to discuss the Roman creation of Christianity for the sake of controlling the masses. It always comes back to blind faith, you fail to look for the true answers to life's questions because ignorance is bliss.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> I've had this discussion in person before with people like yourself. It does not matter what physical evidence I would raise nor would it matter to discuss the Roman creation of Christianity for the sake of controlling the masses. It always comes back to blind faith, you fail to look for the true answers to life's questions because ignorance is bliss.


I am asking you to tell me what the truth is. I would love to hear what you have to say regarding all of this. I don't understand why you would make that last statement. All you have to do is PM me and we can discuss this. I want to know how you've come to the knowledge of the truth. Please share.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

Lou Ferrigino:Arnold Schwarzenegger as Dwight Howard:Lebron James

If you've seen the docu-drama "Pumpin' Iron" you know what I mean.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

So Dwight Howard is The Hulk?


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

He was training obsessively to specifically beat Arnold in the Mr. Olympia (if I recall correctly) bodybuilding contest. He was extremely focused and determined to win, but Arnold was just flat out better and took 1st place.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Blowuptheraptors-

I have had teachers that showed me a way to prove scietifically(sp?) that there is a creator through the laws of physics. Although i may not know all the facts i have had it proven to me that God is real. But all that means nothing because when I started to follow Jesus he prvoed to me though his Spirit that he is real. 

PS. What evidence do you have to back up your statements? Ill be happy to explain that laws of physics thing if your intrested.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Please share how the laws of physics explain that there is a God.

The only teachers who could profess such knowledge, work for a religous institution and try to twist science to support their beliefs.

Tell me you go to MIT, Stanford or along those lines and you might actually have some credibility. If you go to some christian high school in the Bible Belt, your credibility and theirs is less than zero.


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## victor_vc (Jul 30, 2002)

I would like to hear such an explanation.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok well im sure i wont be as convincing as my teacher but here it goes. One law says that matter can not create itself. Another says that the universe is constantly expanding and the amount of usable energy is always decreasing. So lets say there is 80% of the original energy left from the beginning. If you keep going back in time then at some point you would have to reach a time where the amount of usable energy was 100%, correct? You cant go back any farther, and the matter cannot create itself, which proves the existance of a creator, God. 

Sorry if that wasent very clear, my teacher would have done a better job but i tried.


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## victor_vc (Jul 30, 2002)

I wasn't able to follow your argument. But let's suppose you are right for the moment. There are still some issues the argument does not address. (Perhaps they are obvious to your teacher, so in which case, these issues should be expanded).

1. To me the argument simply says that we can't go back forever, so there must be some "cosmic creator." But what happens at the time before the creator itself is created? More specifically, how does the energy come together to form this cosmic being? If it is argued that we can't trace back in time forever, then why can't we just stop at the beginning of the universe and ignore the whole creation business?

I know nothing about physics, but even if your argument does support the theory of a creator, there remain still some doubts.

2. Why must there be only ONE creator? Why doesn't this argument support the theory that there is a team of creators? Moreover, this argument says nothing about the nature of this cosmic being, for instance, its influence on the universe through the billion of years, its power, benevolence, perfection, etc. The argument says nothing about whether this is the same being mentioned in your's religion. This cosmic being could very well be the creator in another religion.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

I believe there is a God, and I don't know if my scientific proof is substantial enough, but it sure was enough for me.

I read in Dan Brown's Angel & Demons about the creation of Anti-Matter. Primarily, it was the church who introduced the Big Bang Theory and it has become accepted by scientists worldwide as the beginning of the universe. Recently, scientists have experimented by taking two sources of energy ang banging them against each other, resulting in the production of yes, 2 opposite objects, matter, and anti-matter. This tells us that something can be created from nothing, all we need is a primary source of energy which can come only from God...

Also, if it's any consolation, it has been proven that the first creatures in Earth are from the sea (through simulating the first years of the Earth by putting nitrogen, water, and lightning, as well as other stuff that were theorized to be there), and in the Bible (even though most of it is manufactured propaganda), it says that God created the sea and it's creatures first. The seven days thing might've taken millions of years really, we don't know how God's timeframe works.

I am in no way a fanatic, but I believe there is a divine being out there. I'm not forcing you dudes to believe this but hopefully you give it a chance and read it.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Being a Christian doesnt have anything to do with your game...Its not like Christians cant wanna win...It wont have anything to do with his on court ability...David Robinson wasnt a pushover he did score 75 in a game once...Dwight Howard would only be limited by his work ethic and talent not his belief system


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Good job with that gian, cuz im kinda lost when it comes to science. There are many theories about the 7days, such as the gap thoery, long day theory and short day theory, but all that isent really important as the FACT that God is real, did create the world, sent Jesus and wants to have a personal relationship with you no matter who you r, what u have done or w/e else.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> He should have gone to the University of Colorado. :laugh: I'd love to see him at one of those sex parties.


Sex party? Hmmm...

More like rape "parties". I don't see anything funny about the situation at CU. It's just a microcosm of the violent and sexist climate towards women in this country. Now if you find that funny, alright...everything is relative, I guess. 



As far as the Dwight Howard situation, why are people hating on him? Oh no, he believes in God. What a terrible thing. I mean, someone who believes in God certainly doesn't do anything wrong. Someone who believes in God is certainly sheltered. Please, for how much complaint there is towards "Christians" about their criticism towards "non-believers" (no doubt, it's warranted criticism) there is just as much criticism the opposite way. Unfortunately, the modern church has painted a picture that Christians are sheltered and always walk the straight path, which couldn't be further from the truth. In the Bible, David murdered someone, Samson killed hundreds of people, and Abraham (I believe, I'm not sure) banged some chick and cheated on his wife. People who believe in God still "sin", if you wanna put it that way. Who knows, maybe Dwight Howard is a corrupt badass. Just cause you believe in God doesn't mean you're perfect.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

David actually only "murdered" one man. And no we are not perfect and do sin, but we ask for forgiveness and try hard not to do it again.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Or people could find the strength within themselves to not murder, steal and cheat......Nah.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Or people could find the strength within themselves to not murder, steal and cheat......Nah.


It's not that simple. Compromising situations will cause you to do things you never imagined yourself capable of.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> Ok well im sure i wont be as convincing as my teacher but here it goes. One law says that matter can not create itself. Another says that the universe is constantly expanding and the amount of usable energy is always decreasing. So lets say there is 80% of the original energy left from the beginning. If you keep going back in time then at some point you would have to reach a time where the amount of usable energy was 100%, correct? You cant go back any farther, and the matter cannot create itself, which proves the existance of a creator, God.
> 
> Sorry if that wasent very clear, my teacher would have done a better job but i tried.


All that energy stuff is incoherent. Basically it is a circular arguement. Your teacher is saying "a scientific law says matter can't create itself, blah blah blah, matter can't create itself, so God did it." I believe in God by the way, but trust me, I've went down the scientific route to find evidence, and NOTHING has proven that God exists. Most arguements are all about how variables in nature need to have a certain perfect balance for life to exist on Earth, but the counterarguement is that the universe is so vast, there is bound to be some solar systems with planets being in the perfect arrangement for life.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Rockstone</b>!
> 
> 
> It's not that simple. Compromising situations will cause you to do things you never imagined yourself capable of.


So then what's the point of God in this case? What is he there for? For people who can't control themselves. Is he there to console that poor murderer with forgiveness after he has given his life over to God. Wow. What justice.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

If you did something would you want forgiveness? He is there because He loves us. He however is not a dictator and has given us free will.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Not everyone deserves forgiveness. WTF was the point of Hell then if God forgives everyone!?


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

He forgives everyone who will ask for forgiveness and humble themselves. Hell is for people who never accept Jesus as their Savior.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I don't know if you have a sibling. Let's say you do. If, forbid this happens, that some ahole brutally murders them. Does he deserve forgiveness if he gave himself over to God. What if in his mind, he has already given himself to God?


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> I don't know if you have a sibling. Let's say you do. If, forbid this happens, that some ahole brutally murders them. Does he deserve forgiveness if he gave himself over to God. What if in his mind, he has already given himself to God?


The murderer can be forgiven, not because he deserves it but because God is merciful. 

God loves us so much that He's willing to forgive us, even when we don't deserve it. 

When Jesus was being crucified, He asked God to forgive the men that were killing him, and all of those who wanted him dead. That's love. 

It's not easy for us to love like that, but who are we to condemn anyone when none of us is perfect? All sin is equal in God's eyes, from murder to white lies.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

I was all for Howard til I heard about this. I HATE people who want to force their religion on others.

It just shows what an immature idiot he is.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

silverpaw-What, you dont like him because he had goals? 

blowuptheraptors- Yes, if he gave his heart over to Jesus he does deserve forgivness. And yes ALL sins are the same in Gods eyes, even though they have different consequences on earth.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I see no difference between your example of God's forgiveness in sin and the maniacal muslim zealots who believe that killing for the sake of alah brings them to heaven. Either way evil is forgiven and even rewarded.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

The difference is when you ask God for forgiveness you make a commitment to do eveything under your power to not do it again. How is evil being rewarded?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> The difference is when you ask God for forgiveness you make a commitment to do eveything under your power to not do it again. How is evil being rewarded?


Because there are people who think they are doing God's work on Earth and that might include killing people. Several people have done so in terms of killing doctors that performed abortions even though abortion was legal. How about the Michigan Militia and Oklahoma City?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

I like how ALL 26 of Takeanumber's posts are about religion.

_Basketball_boards.net


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Not all 26 are, i think just 24. But this is a much more important subject anyway.

Blowuptheraptors- Those people claim to be doing it for God, if they are not then they are sinning. As Christains we are to obey the law as long as it does not contradict what God has told us. If God told them to do it, which I will not judge, then they are doing His will.


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## victor_vc (Jul 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> Not all 26 are, i think just 24. But this is a much more important subject anyway.
> 
> Blowuptheraptors- Those people claim to be doing it for God, if they are not then they are sinning. As Christains we are to obey the law as long as it does not contradict what God has told us. If God told them to do it, which I will not judge, then they are doing His will.


I was just curious whether or not you plan to take a stab at my argument. If not, that's cool.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> If God told them to do it, which I will not judge, then they are doing His will.


Yeah. God talks to people. OK..... In insane asylums. 

Man you guys are freaking nuts. Listen to yourself. When you hear voices and think its God telling you to do something, do us all a favour and turn yourself in to the authorities.

:krazy:


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> I see no difference between your example of God's forgiveness in sin and the maniacal muslim zealots who believe that killing for the sake of alah brings them to heaven. Either way evil is forgiven and even rewarded.


 There are zealots in every religion. Open a history book and read up on the Spanish Inquisitions and how they murdered thousands in the name of faith, plunged entire countries into an abyss of chaos by instigating civil and religious wars and so on. I'm muslim and I can say that I obviously dont support any sort of fundamentalism but it's wrong for people to go around thinking that we're a militant people and that we want to destroy other people. You'd be shocked at how many people have converted after reading translations of the Quran and other books because it is a beautiful religion and a peaceful one which has very very close ties with Christianity. Go get a book and learn before you start labelling people as monsters.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Max Payne</b>!
> 
> 
> There are zealots in every religion. Open a history book and read up on the Spanish Inquisitions and how they murdered thousands in the name of faith, plunged entire countries into an abyss of chaos by instigating civil and religious wars and so on. I'm muslim and I can say that I obviously dont support any sort of fundamentalism but it's wrong for people to go around thinking that we're a militant people and that we want to destroy other people. You'd be shocked at how many people have converted after reading translations of the Quran and other books because it is a beautiful religion and a peaceful one which has very very close ties with Christianity. Go get a book and learn before you start labelling people as monsters.


I never called every single worshipper a monster. I refuted 3333's idea that all deeds if in God's (Christ's) name are OK. He made it seem that everything that has ever had to do with Christianity is pure and good. IE killing an abortion Dr.

Please don't ask me to pick up a book. I have read more than you think and agree with most of your post. I know what real Muslims stand for and it is not the terrorists that proliferate within the media.

I was not labelling Muslims. I was comparing how there are Christian equivalents of Muslim terrorists, and that the Christian ones are no less abhorent.

Please read the whole thread before YOU label ME.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Victor vc- Hmmmm, i have no idea. The Creator was never created, He just has always been and always will be. 

Blowuptheraptors- No not every thing done in the name of God is good, but every thing that God said to do is. For example, if someone were to kill someone and said God told them to do it when he really didnt then it is a sin. If God did indeed tell someone to do something then it is justafiable(sp?). Unless it contradicts Gods word then its between them and God.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Why does Howard feel the need to force his faith on others?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

And just how does one know that God speaks to anyone??


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

He speaks to me, so thats proof enough to me. So you dont get this confused, he dosent really use a voice, but more often a thought or event to speak. 

Silverpaw- Becuase he wants to share his joy. The main point if living for Jesus is to love and bring others to know him. He's just trying to fulfill his calling.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Then why does he feel the need to force his faith (WHICH IS NOT NECESSARILY CORRECT) upon others?


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>silverpaw1786</b>!
> Then why does he feel the need to force his faith (WHICH IS NOT NECESSARILY CORRECT) upon others?


I've been trying to kill this thread by not responding but your continuous griping annoys me.

What gives you the idea that he wants to force anything on anyone?

Why do you feel so threatened?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Howard also has gone on record saying he will attempt to convert the entire league into born-again Christians and has visions of altering the NBA logo so Jerry West will have a cross on his chest.


http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/7308013

Sounds like he wants to force his will on people to me too. I know what I would tell him if tried to convert me.
 :kissmy:


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Howard also has gone on record saying he will attempt to convert the entire league into born-again Christians and has visions of altering the NBA logo so Jerry West will have a cross on his chest.


I guess it's wrong for someone to have dreams. Martin Luther King should have just kept his mouth shut and accepted the fact that things are not the way he thinks they should be. Why would he feel the need to force Racial Harmony on others?



> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Sounds like he wants to force his will on people to me too.


You guys need to ask yourselves why you feel threatened.:yes:


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

He wants to force it because he knows how great it is! He just wants to share his joy and love with you.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

One has to do with equality of races, the other has to do with making others forego their religious beliefs in favour of yours.

Do you not see the difference?

How do you see that we are threatened? That makes no sense. 

OK I have a dream to convert all basketball players to Islam. Instead of Jerry West, I want Abdul-Rauf with his hands together in front of his face. Dare to Dream!!


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> He wants to force it because he knows how great it is! He just wants to share his joy and love with you.


Did it ever occur that some people want to be left to THINK FOR THEMSELVES????????????


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

i dont wanna sound like im preaching...

but we are trying to understand something that we cannot even begin to comprehend...

this is bigger than you think...

its like explaining something to a baby... they are not yet ready to understand...


the funny thing is...

we always try to point to science as the answer to everything...

but.

its like God gave man a toy in science to play with... and that's what we all are doing... toying with these ideas in our mind...


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

blowuptheraptors captures my emotions perfectly.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

I think for myself all the time, its called free will. What do you mean think for yourself? God dosent control thoughts, however, he can influence them. He could do it(control your thoughts), but chooses not to.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Tragedy</b>!
> i dont wanna sound like im preaching...
> 
> but we are trying to understand something that we cannot even
> ...


Instead, you try to explain existence with a catch all "hey God did it." Did you ever actually ask to think when the idea of God started. Why do billions of people in other parts of the World believe in completely different myths *cough* religions.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> I think for myself all the time, its called free will. What do you mean think for yourself? God dosent control thoughts, however, he can influence them. He could do it(control your thoughts), but chooses not to.


I'm not talking about that. What I'm saying is that Howard, you, and others like you should let people learn and make their own decisions instead of tring to "share" because what you see as "sharing", others see as preaching. Unless you are in your church with YOUR congregation, keep it to yourself.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> One has to do with equality of races, the other has to do with making others forego their religious beliefs in favour of yours.
> 
> Do you not see the difference?


You do not see my point. My point is that Martin Luther King did all he could to see his dream come to reality, and was not afraid to speak about it. Dwight Howard is only saying that he's going to do all that he can to make his dream a reality. What is wrong with another person sharing their dream with others? Should a man be stoned because he wants to do all he can to make a difference?

You bring up the fact that one has to do with racial equality and the other with "religious beliefs". That is a useless point. The bottom line is that both men were exercising their right to share their views and their passion.



> How do you see that we are threatened? That makes no sense.


I would bet you that a lot of the men and women who had a problem with Martin Luther King's intents, would have made a fuss because they felt threatened. They would feel threatened by what could happen if the oppressed were liberated. It was not something for them to look forward to. They were comfortable with life as it was.

Are you afraid of what could happen if the entire NBA became Christians? Are you intimidated by the amount of influence it could have over the world? What's really the big deal in all of this?


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> What I'm saying is that Howard, you, and others like you should let people learn and make their own decisions instead of tring to "share" because what you see as "sharing", others see as preaching. Unless you are in your church with YOUR congregation, keep it to yourself.


So let me get this straight....

You don't have a problem with people sharing their dreams with others, as long as it has nothing to do with their faith?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Why do you feel so threatened????????? Why does everybody have to hear how great being a Christian is IYO. Does everybody have to be Christian?

If I said my sincere dream was to convert everbody to Judaism, would you say that is ludicrous?

MLK was a great man who was trying to bring about racial equality. Howard's dream is to take people of other faith or beliefs and turn them toward his. Do you not see the difference? One idea is live and let live, and hopefully, equally in harmony. The other says live like me. Sounds like the tolerance and philosophy and dream of a young Austrian from years gone by.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Why do you feel so threatened????????? Why does everybody have to hear how great being a Christian is IYO. Does everybody have to be Christian?


Everyone has to hear about it because it is a theory. There are several truths out there, and none of them might be true really, but the fact that they're there is what counts. They want people to know about it. The truth is laid out for you, you choose what to believe. 

However, I agree with you in your point about forcing Christianity. I think it's ok to preach, but you can't go crazy and get mad at anyone who doesn't believe what you say. 

:twocents: 

Can't we all just get along? 

:mob:


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Why do you feel so threatened?????????


I suggested why you may feel threatened. Can you do the same for me so that I can see where you're coming from?



> Why does everybody have to hear how great being a Christian is IYO.


Speaking for myself, I have love for everyone so I will share anything with a person that I think is beneficial. I don't have all the right answers but, I'm confident in those things that have brought me hapiness. 



> Does everybody have to be Christian?


No. I personally prefer not to be called a "Christian". The title "Christian" has too much religiosity attatched to it. IMO a true Child of God is not religious, but is in divine relationship with God. Religion is a practice. Being a Disciple of Jesus Christ is a lifestyle.

Everyone who wants to go to Heaven must be a Disciple of Jesus Christ. Many "Christians" will go to Hell.



> If I said my sincere dream was to convert everbody to Judaism, would you say that is ludicrous?


Not at all. I would just assume that you are passionate about your Jewish heritage. I don't know myself to ridicule others because their ideas are contrary to what I believe.

I would respect your passion and devotion.



> MLK was a great man who was trying to bring about racial equality. Howard's dream is to take people of other faith or beliefs and turn them toward his. Do you not see the difference? One idea is live and let live, and hopefully, equally in harmony. The other says live like me. Sounds like the tolerance and philosophy and dream of a young Austrian from years gone by.


We all see the difference. Do we see the similarity?
Both men had a desire to bring about change. Both took the opportunity to share their passion with others. In both cases, there were people who did not support, or were disturbed by their dream.

I noticed that you've pointed out one of the common ideas between these two men. They both wanted others to LIVE.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I still don't understand why you thnk this discussion is threatening. I typed that toward you because it is a ludicrous statement. Why would anyone feel threatened? Like I'm arguing because I'm afraid to accept God's love. That is a cop out.

The difference between their dreams is that one wants to end social injustice and the other wants to create religious homogeneity. There is quite a difference in the goal of their dreams. One is noble, the other is completely self-serving. Even if he thinks all is for the Glory of God, it's glory for HIS God, whereas MLK respected the beliefs of all people.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> I still don't understand why you thnk this discussion is threatening. I typed that toward you because it is a ludicrous statement. Why would anyone feel threatened? Like I'm arguing because I'm afraid to accept God's love. That is a cop out.


Afraid to accept God's love? Where do you come up with this stuff?

Did you read this?


> Originally posted by <b>Rockstone</b>!
> Are you intimidated by the amount of influence it could have over the world?


That's where the threat may lie. Is that not plain enough to see?



> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> The difference between their dreams is that one wants to end social injustice and the other wants to create religious homogeneity. There is quite a difference in the goal of their dreams. One is noble, the other is completely self-serving. Even if he thinks all is for the Glory of God, it's glory for HIS God, whereas MLK respected the beliefs of all people.


You've made this point already....


> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> MLK was a great man who was trying to bring about racial equality. Howard's dream is to take people of other faith or beliefs and turn them toward his. Do you not see the difference?One idea is live and let live, and hopefully, equally in harmony. The other says live like me.


And this was my response...


> We all see the difference.


I don't know what you want, but there is no need to keep repeating the same point, when we've all heard and understood it already. 

I'm tired of going back and forth with you, and I will not be typing anything more on this thread. If it's the last word you want, go ahead and say it. Please make sure it's something intelligent.

My *final words* are that we should all respect an individual's desire to express his/her dreams or intents freely. We don't need to accept it, but we ought to respect it.

God bless you all...


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Im not done with this thread yet if your not a Christian yet.



> I'm not talking about that. What I'm saying is that Howard, you, and others like you should let people learn and make their own decisions instead of tring to "share" because what you see as "sharing", others see as preaching. Unless you are in your church with YOUR congregation, keep it to yourself.


Sorry but one of the most improtant things in Christiany is to bring others to the Lord. 



> However, I agree with you in your point about forcing Christianity. I think it's ok to preach, but you can't go crazy and get mad at anyone who doesn't believe what you say.


You cannot force other people to believe, but you sure can put the idea in their head. I agree we shouldent get mad at them, but i dont see why you said that seeing as how i dont think anyone is getting mad. 

And God was never created, He has always been and will always be, forever. He was not created but is the creator


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

blowuptheraptors, keep fighting the good fight.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b></b>!
> Im not done with this thread yet if your not a Christian yet.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Hey everyone, Dwight Howard is on this board under the ID takeanumber3333. Look out all you Buddhists, Jews, Muslims and atheists, he is coming to get you.

As for you Rockstone. I had to repeat my point because you made the spurious comparison between the dreams of MLK and Howard, twice.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Actually my names Eric, not Dwight.


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