# Top 10 lists



## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

Hey What up? I was looking at the Lindy's and Athon College Basketball previews. They have some Top 10 lists. I would like to give you my lists. Please feel free to submit your lists as well.


Top Point Guards

1-Jason Gardner of Ariz
2-Kirk Hinrich of Kansas
3-Hollis Price of Oklahoma
4-TJ Ford of Texas
5-Brandin Knight of Pitt
6-Luke Ridnour of Oregon
7-Chris Thomas of Notre Dame
8-Chris Duhon of Duke
9-Aaron Miles of Kansas
10-Troy Bell of Boston College

Top Shooting Guards 

1-Reece Gaines of Louisville
2-Dwyane Wade of Marquette
3-Ebi Ere of Oklahoma
4-Ryan Sidney of Boston College
5-Marcus Hatten of St. Johns
6-Andre Emett of Texas Tech
7-Ruben Douglas of New Mexico
8-Julius Hodge of NC State
9-Kirk Penny of Wisconsin
10-Romain Sato of Xavier

Top Small Fowards
1-Luke Walton of Arizona
2-Jason Kapono of UCLA
3-Josh Howard of Wake Forest
4-Javis Hayes of Georgia
5-Doug Wrenn of Washington
6-Luke Jackson of Oregon
7-Justin Reed of Ole Miss
8-LeVall Blancahrd of Michigan
9-Ricky Paulding of Missouri
10-Ronald Dupree of LSU

Top Power Forwards
1-Nick Collison of Kansas
2-David West of Xavier
3-Michael Sweetney of Georgetown
4-Matt Bonner of Flordia
5-Lawrence Roberts of Baylor
6-Dairon Johnson of UNLV
7-Phillp Ricci of Oregon
8-Travis Watson of Virgina
9-Janes Thomas of Texas
10-Wayne Simien of Kansas

Top Centers
1-Chris Marcus of Western Kentucky
2-Emeka Okafor of UCONN
3-Brian Cook of Illinois
4-David Harrison of Colorado
5-Mario Auston of Miss State
6-Channing Frye of Arizona
7-Earl Barron of Memphis
8-Jabahir Brown of Oklahoma
9-Michael Southall of Louis-Lafeytte
10-Author Johnson of Missouri


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## AriGold23 (Jul 19, 2002)

My list...

PG-
1. Kirk Hinrich Kansas (although he will be playin SG this year)
2. Jason Gardner Arizona
3. Chris Duhon Duke
4. Chris Thomas Notre Dame
5. TJ Ford Texas
6. Maurice Williams Alabama
7. Luke Ridnour Oregon
8. Brandin Knight Pittsburgh
9. Steve Blake Maryland
10. Hollis Price Oklahoma
Top Newcomer: Ray Felton UNC
A sleeper to watch out for is Billy Edelin at Syracuse

SG-
1. Reece Gaines Louisville (great combo guard)
2. James White Florida
3. Rickey Paulding Missouri
4. Jarvis Hayes Georgia
5. Dwayne Wade Marquette 
6. Romain Sato Xavier
7. Jason Connelly VMI (lead nation in scoring last year as a frosh)
8. Marcus Hatten St. Johns
9. Bernard Robinson Jr. Michigan
10. Ronald Blackshear Marshall
Top Newcomer: Hassan Adams Arizona

SF-
1. Darius Rice Miami Fla.
2. Luke Walton Arizona
3. Luke Jackson Oregon
4. Doug Wrenn Washinton
5. Anthony Richardson Florida St.
6. Jawad Williams UNC
7. Theron Smith Ball St.
8. Josh Howard Wake Forest
9. Julius Hodge NC St.
10.Jason Kapono UCLA
Top Newcomer: Carmelo Anthony Syracuse

PF-
1. Nick Collison Kansas
2. David West Xavier
3. Mike Sweetney G-Town
4. Rick Rickert Minnesota
5. Erwin Dudley Alabama
6. Mario Austin Mississippi St. 
7. James Thomas Texas
8. Dalron Johnson UNLV
9. T.J. Cummings UCLA
10. David Lee Florida
Top Newcomer: Chris Bosh Georgia Tech

C-
1. Chris Marcus Western Kentucky
2. David Harrison Colorado
3. Emeka Okafor UCONN
4. Channing Frye Arizona
5. Wesley Wilson G-Town
6. Brian Cook Illinois
7. Jason Maxiell Cinncinnati
8. Earl Barron Memphis
9. Michael Southhall Louis-Laffyette
10. Raitis Grafs Valporaiso


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

Kansalum...How can Ku have two point guards? I disagree. Hinrich will be playing off the ball this year, at least that is where he will be starting, so put him on that list. Same for Hollis Price. Quannas White will be the one running the show for them, just like last year. Come on now, man.
Just curious but why do you have Aaron Miles ahead of Troy Bell? Or how about why do you have him ahead of Maurice Williams or Ed Scott or Steven Blake or Tom Coverdale? Take note, that when you make top 10 lists and try and be as subjective as possible. It makes a big difference, in a good way. Dont be a little baby and only add your favorite players that play on your favorite team.
As for Reece Gaines being the best SG, look at his #'s against good quality competition and then tell me, who is the best SG in the country. It's not him. It's Dwayne Wade.
Ebi Ere plays SF and even if he did play SG, having him in your top 3 is terrible. Both marcus Hatten and Andre Emmett score more, rebound better and create more offense than Ebi. Justin Reed is not a small froward, nor is llaval blanchard. However, I am glad you have players like Ronald Dupree and Romain Sato on your lists and I am glad you put them at their right positions even though Dupree will most likely start at PF again.
If Nick Collison and Wayne Simien are both going to be playing PF next year, then who is starting at center?

Now for the Iverson fellow. First off, I like your list a lot better. However, you overrate Chris Duhon a little. Why have him over Ford and Knight? What do you have against Brandin Knight. IMO he is the most complete point guard in college basketball. If you disagree please tell me why. And why do you insist on putting Hollis Price as a PG when he is not going to be playing point guard unless White gets hurt. Thats just common sense.
I agree about Ray Felton. Good pick there. Watch out for Dee Brown at Illinois though. 
You too for some reason think Gaines is better than Wade. Well there is a reason why Marquette was a lot better than UofL last year and a top the confrence with Cincy. Check into it.
James White? I'm I missing something here, when did UF him to the SG spot with Nelson and Hamilton starting toghether the past two years? You know something I dont? I would be surprised if he even started next year with Christian Drejer coming into the program. Here we go again, Jarvis Hayes is not a SG, Ezra Williams has been the starter for the past two years under Harrick. Why would he decide to change that? Your #9 and #10 picks for SG are a joke. I change my mind, I like the Kansas fans picks better.
Darius rice is the best small forward in the country? Why is he better than Luke Walton who BTW will be playing PF this year with Hassan Adams moving over to start. Rick Anderson would be a lot better off the bench.
Anthony Richardson #5? You do realize this kid shot 33% from the field last year and he's your #5? Is Fsu known for having players improve upon their freshman year to their sophmore year or something? Sure didnt work for Micheal Joiner. Dear god.
Now for your PF list. I agree with the first three..good job. However, both Erwin Dudley and Mario Austin are centers. Put them on that list instead, as is Chris Bosh. Good pick with David Lee.


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

*Here are my picks*

PG
1-Brandin Knight
2-T.J. Ford
3-Jason Garner
4-Troy Bell
5-Jameer Nelson
6-Luke Ridnour
7-Chris Thomas
8-Chris Duhon
9-Andre Barrett
10-Steven Blake

SG
1-Dwayne Wade
2-Kirk Hinrich
3-Marcus Hatten
4-Reece Gaines
5-Hollis Price
6-Andre Emmett
7-Gary Buchanan
8-Romain Sato
9-Ezra Williams
10-Willie Deane

SF
1-Jarvis Hayes
2-Luke Jackson
3-Ronald Dupree
4-Jason Kapono
5-Carmelo Anthony
6-Kasib Powell
7-Doug Wrenn
8-JOsh Howard
9-Ebi Ere
10-Ricky Paulding

PF
1-David West
2-Luke Walton
3-Micheal Sweetney
4-Brian Cook
5-Travis Watson
6-Phillip Ricci
7-Rick Rickert
8-Justin Reed
9-Lawerence Roberts
10-David Lee

C
1-Nick Collison
2-Chris Marcus
3-Erwin Dudley
4-Mario Austin
5-David Harrison
6-Emeka Okafor
7-Jason Fraser
8-Matt Bonner
9-Jamie Lloreda
10-Arthur Johnson


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## AriGold23 (Jul 19, 2002)

Most of the players are listed based on where they will be playing in the NBA. I know Ezra Williams is starting at the point for a good Georgia team, but Hayes is 6-6 and will be playing SG in the NBA. Same deal with Austin and Dudley, Austin is close to 6-10 while Dudley is much smaller at 6-8. Both will be playing PF in the NBA. I rated Duhon higher because of his size and ability to play D better then the smaller Ford and Knight. I have nothing against Knight who led Pitt to a BIg east title, but I just think the guys i have higher then him are a little better. James White actually will be starting, i dont see how u can believe that a possible top 5 pick isnt starting for Billy D'z team. Also how did Hamilton start for 2 years when he missed a season when he tore his ACL??? Hamilton is good but he will come off the bench backing up both White and Drejer who will be the starting SF for florida with Lee and Bonner filling out the frontline. Florida could be the most dangerous team because of their outstanding depth in the backcourt with Bret Nelson, Justin Hamilton, James White, Drejer, and stud frosh Anthony Roberson. I dont know about Walton starting at PF, with Adams moving to SF. Why would Zona do that??? they would be terribly mismatched on D. Gardner is 5-11, Stoudamire is only 6-2, and then Adams at 6-4 would kill them on the wings, so no way that happens. Rick Anderson will start at PF with Walton at SF. I chose Rice over Walton because Rice has more athletic ability and can score much more then Walton. I know Walton can do it all, Pass, Score and rebound, but i just like Rice better, although i know that Walton could very welll be #1. Hollis Price did most of the ball handling for OU when i saw them in the BIG 12 tourny which is why i put him at the 1. Gaines is a better player then Wade, look at his game against Tennessee when he scored 9 points in i believe 14 seconds for a comeback win for Louisville. The reason why Marquette and Cincy were better is cuz Cincy had Logan, Stokes, and Jason Maxiell and Marquette had Cordell Henry as a great scorer alongside Wade. Gaines would have had a #2 scorer but Carlos Hurt was kicked off the team, leaving Gaines as the only legit scorer on the team, although Bryan Northern filled in pretty well. Anthony Richardson is another high flyer who was a McDonalds All American. The guy plays great and is one of FSU's lone bright spot (along with their other scoring wing Arrington). While his shooting % mite not be good, he has the potential to get First Team All-ACC with a little improvement. The guy is like James White, an athletic wing who has the potential to be a star.


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

"Most of the players are listed based on where they will be playing in the NBA"

Why in the world would you position players IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL, as they would be positioned in the NBA, when in fact, some of these players wont ever step foot out onto an NBA basketball court? That makes about as much as sense as hitting your head as hard as you can against a rock. These guys wont be playing in the NBA next year, they will be playing in college. Does that not make sense to you? 

"I know Ezra Williams is starting at the point for a good Georgia team, but Hayes is 6-6 and will be playing SG in the NBA"

Actually, you're wrong again. What a surprise!!?? Ezra Williams will not be running the point for Uga. Rashad Wright will. Hayes is 6'6 and he is playing SF for UGA, not SG for some random NBA team. Who is to say, he will ever play in the NBA? Can you predict the future? Is that how you base your arguments? No! So whats the point? Thats a good tactic.

"I rated Duhon higher because of his size and ability to play D better then the smaller Ford and Knight"

Brandin Knight is 6'0 190lbs and is one of the best defensive guards in the country. Why do you think Pitt won last year? Because they were one of the best defensive teams in the country. BTW Duhon is 6'1 190...wow he's a lot bigger.

"I have nothing against Knight who led Pitt to a BIg east title, but I just think the guys i have higher then him are a little better"

When it comes to arguening..its nice to have a little reasoning to backup your opinions. Try that out, next time.

"James White actually will be starting, i dont see how u can believe that a possible top 5 pick isnt starting for Billy D'z team"

Maybe because, Christian Drejer was promised playing time as a freshman, which is why he came to UF. James White could start, thats very possible but hes got competition and with Nelson and Hamilton being two year starters, who's to say? Definetly not you, thats for sure.

"they would be terribly mismatched on D. Gardner is 5-11, Stoudamire is only 6-2, and then Adams at 6-4 would kill them on the wings, so no way that happens"

LoL..so you're telling me that a lineup of Walton, Gardner and Stoudamire is better defensively? Here's a tid bit for you, Walton is not known for his defense. He is 6'8 230lbs, not quick, rather slow and not athletic. He is known for his offense. Putting Adams in at SF, would not hurt them defensively at all. It would help them! I'd say he could defend SF's about as well as Walton could(being very sarcastic on that note), specially in todays game where teams run 3 guard lineup's and 4 guard lineups all the time. Since when did Walton become a great defensive player?? LMAO!!

"I chose Rice over Walton because Rice has more athletic ability and can score much more then Walton"

Rice averaged 14.9ppg last year. Walton averaged 15.7ppg, yet rice is a better scorer. How again? I agree he is more athletic and probably a better perimeter shooter. But Walton rebounds a lot better and creates a ton of offense, which is what makes Walton a threat. Darius Rice cant create any offense for teammates at all and shoots under 38% from the field. No way is he better than Walton. Walton scores more, rebounds more, creates more shots on offene, shoots better from the field and provides leadership, something Rice does not. Its not even close.

"Hollis Price did most of the ball handling for OU when i saw them in the BIG 12 tourny which is why i put him at the 1."

Whites brings the ball up the court, he sets the offense up. I can prove this. White averaged 5 assits a game last year. Price averaged 2. White's the point guard. Price is the off guard. 

"Gaines is a better player then Wade"

Lets look inside the #'s here again and see what Gaines did against good competition. Against teams ranked in the top 100 of the RPI. Gaines averaged 16.2ppg and shot 32%. So basically, Gaines put big #'s against not so very good competition which is my reason for not putting him #1. If you cant do it in the Big games, then you dont deserve that ranking.

"The guy plays great and is one of FSU's lone bright spot (along with their other scoring wing Arrington"

Arrington does not play on the wing, hes a point guard and he graduated.

"While his shooting % mite not be good, he has the potential to get First Team All-ACC with a little improvement"

So in other words you think hes good but you just cant prove it. Yeah..good argument.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ihatespn</b>!
> Kansalum...How can Ku have two point guards? I disagree. Hinrich will be playing off the ball this year, at least that is where he will be starting, so put him on that list. Same for Hollis Price. Quannas White will be the one running the show for them, just like last year. Come on now, man.
> Just curious but why do you have Aaron Miles ahead of Troy Bell? Or how about why do you have him ahead of Maurice Williams or Ed Scott or Steven Blake or Tom Coverdale? Take note, that when you make top 10 lists and try and be as subjective as possible. It makes a big difference, in a good way. Dont be a little baby and only add your favorite players that play on your favorite team.
> As for Reece Gaines being the best SG, look at his #'s against good quality competition and then tell me, who is the best SG in the country. It's not him. It's Dwayne Wade.
> ...


On the KU things about PG's and PF's. First the PF issue. Kansas has no TRUE center. Collison will play the 5th spot, but he is no center. Like what Iverson says, even though they may play teh center in college, but they are not a centers when they go the next level. Now for PG's. If you look at KU's offense, there is two point guards on the floor. Last year there was 3. Both Hinrch and Miles can run the offense. Both can be floor leaders. Hinrich may play the 2 spot this season, but any second he can lead the floor. If you look at last season. On defense he played the 3 spot, but a lot of time he set up the offense, and that was a PG does. Plus, in the NBA he will be a point man. Plus, if you look at other "experts" they have Hinrich at the Point guard lists. 

I think Miles will be the better PG of those. I am just not placing my fav player on my lists. That is absurd that you think that.]

Now for positons. Players can play both positions it just not really matter which list they are on. Look at Price. He may play the shooting guard, but OU has the same sitution as Kansas. Plus, Hollis will be a PG in the next level. He is like 5'10"


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

"Collison will play the 5th spot, but he is no center"

No one is calling Collison a true center. If you look around, there are only about 9 or 10 solid true centers left in college basketball. If Collison is going to start at the center position, then lable him a center, not overall but a center for Kansas, since that is what he is going to be. Why is this so hard for you guys to figure out?

"but they are not a centers when they go the next level."

How is that relevent to anything. They are not at that level. It has nothing to do with anything.

As for Hinrich, the kid will be playing a majority of his time, at the off guard position, off the ball, trying to score rather than setup the offense which is what Aaron Miles did last season, which is what he will do this season and that is what a point guard does. Its not a question of whether or not Hinrich can play the point. He has played it before, he will play it again but that wont be his task next season at Ku.

"I think Miles will be the better PG of those. I am just not placing my fav player on my lists. That is absurd that you think that."

Then give me a reason for why I shouldn't think that? What makes him better other than that you think he is, which is because he plays for your favorite team. Thats really pathetic. How old are you?

"Now for positons. Players can play both positions it just not really matter which list they are on. Look at Price. He may play the shooting guard, but OU has the same sitution as Kansas. Plus, Hollis will be a PG in the next level. He is like 5'10"

Once again..what does the NBA have to do with anything? We're not talkint about the top 10 points in the NBA! How can you be so thick headed? Hollis Price and Kirk Hinrich most of the time will be playing off the ball, just like last year, trying to score points. I am not saying that they are not versatile enough to move them to other postitions but when you rank playes by positions, rank them as to where they will be seeing the most playing time. This really appears to be a hard concept for you, as is the concept of defending anything you have to say with solid reasoning. You avoided like 8 questions of mine but then again, when I think about it, I really didnt expect you to.


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## AriGold23 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Why in the world would you position players IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL, as they would be positioned in the NBA


obviously u dont understand why these kids play college basketball. This is a proving ground for NBA TALENT. The top 10 players at each position in College basketball have about a 99% chance at making the NBA. Remember these are the best of the best in College Basketball, so common freaking sense tells u that they willlll be drafted into the freaking NBA!!!

About the Ezra WIlliams comment that wuz a typo, i know he will be starting at SG with Hayes playing the other wing. cut my head off for the typo. lol

U still say that Hamilton started for 2 years when in fact he was out with a torn ACL for a full year. And every single freaking college basketball fan (obviously except for urself) that James White will be starting. He has the potential to be the best SG in the nation yet u want him on the bench behind Hamilton??? lmao.
I know Drejer was promised PT which is why i said he is the starting SF. 

For some reason u think that i dislike Brandin Knight. I have my own opinion and its pretty logical to say that Duhon is better then Knight. I know Knight is a fine basketball player, but rememebr Duhon was the reason that Jay Williams (the #2 pick in the draft) was moved to the off-guard position. Now thats pretty good.

As for the Zona defense comment, if u look at the Pac-10's other SF u would see that Walton matches up good with opposing teams SF's like Kapono 6-7 and Luke Jackson 6-7. There arent many athletic super talented wings in the Pac-10 (other then Doug Wrenn) who would pose a problem for Walton. But obviously u didnt think about that. Also if u knew anything about the Arizona program u would know that Walton will be starting at SF with Rick Anderson at PF, but obviously u think that ur a much better coach then Lute Olson. lol




> Whites brings the ball up the court, he sets the offense up. I can prove this. White averaged 5 assits a game last year. Price averaged 2.


haha u call that proof??? Luke Walton averaged more assists last year then Jason Gardner, does that make Walton the starting PG???? haha u obviously have no idea about wut ur saying. lol

Now about Darius Rice, i believe that he will put up better scoring numbers this year then he did last year, while Walton will stick around 15ppg or even less with the emergence of Stoudamire and Frye. Also i did say in my other post that Walton sets up his teammates and makes more things happen on the court then Rice does, but obviously u didnt see that. With John Salmons moving onto the NBA and Marcus Barnes getting kciked off the team, Rice will pick up the scoring load and become the #1 option.

Now onto Gaines vs. Wade. Gaines averaged 17 points yet doesnt deserve to be #1 because Wade averaged how much??? oh yeah he averaged less then 17ppg. Hmm well lets talk about Handles, Gaines is the best combo guard in the nation, and will probably end up playing PG in the NBA, wut about Wade??? Wade didnt have to play PG cuz Marquette had another great scorer in Cordell Henry. Did Gaines have anybody of Henry's caliber in his backcourt??? dont think so. if thats not enough look at size. Gaines is 2-3 inches taller and much stronger then Wade. So ya Gaines ranking is justified.

Last but not least is Richardson. U say i didnt justify my ranking of him yet i said that the reason i ranked him was because he HAS THE FREAKING POTENTIAL TO BE GREAT!!! i aknowledged the fact that he shot poorly last year, but said that he HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE GREAT!!! Potential counts doesn't it??? u bet ur stupid *** it does. Why do u think James White is supposd to be the next coming of VC??? or why is Rickey Paulding being rated a top 10 pick when he hasnt even started a whole season??? Why are all these high skoolers supposd to be NBA stars??? one word dawg POTENTIAL it means alot.


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

"The top 10 players at each position in College basketball have about a 99% chance at making the NBA"

Do we need to back to 2nd grade here, sport? Lets do the math. 10 best players per positions. 5 positions, 5 times 10=50. There are only 56 players drafted and we havent even included the top highschool players, top JUCO players and top foreign players, so i am thinking you can just throw out that 99%. Dont be stupid. You have already done enough of that. Doesnt it get old?

"Remember these are the best of the best in College Basketball, so common freaking sense tells u that they willlll be drafted into the freaking NBA!!!"

LoL..can you say freakin..one more time..it makes you sound very intelligent.

"About the Ezra WIlliams comment that wuz a typo, i know he will be starting at SG with Hayes playing the other wing. cut my head off for the typo"

Oh it was a typo now? Sure bud, I believe you. You just keep telling yourself that.

"He has the potential to be the best SG in the nation yet u want him on the bench behind Hamilton???"

No I dont have him on the bench at all. And I wouldnt have on the bench behind Hamilton, considering Hamilton is the point guard. I have White starting at SF, that is if he can beat out Drejer for that position. Brett Nelson has been the starting SG ast UF for the past two years and Hamilton is one of the more steady players in the SEC and one of the best defensive players in the country at his position. And with Roberson, who is a combo guard, coming off the bench. I think White will see most of his time at SF. Which was my point to begin with. 

"but rememebr Duhon was the reason that Jay Williams (the #2 pick in the draft) was moved to the off-guard position. Now thats pretty good."

If Brandin Knight played for Duke, he would have moved Jay williams over to the SG position as well to make room for his scoring ability. It has been known that Jay is a scoring guard first, assist guard second. He played the 2guard his whole career in highschool. So your point is not valid at all. Are you trying to say that Duhon is a better PG than Jay Williams? LMAO if you are. Thats the dumbest thing you have said yet. 

My point about Arizona was this, Hassan Adams, I think is a better basketball player than Rick Anderson and BTW Lute Olson has said the he wants Anderson to come off the bench because the kid cant guard anyone defensively. It doesnt matter where you put Walton, at the PF or the SF, its the same to him defensively, if anything he would be better suited defending slower, bigger players, like himself and it woudlnt take away from his offense.
As for small forwards in the Pac Ten..How about Tommy Smith, or Joe Shipp, or Josh Childress or Desmond Farmer and yes Doug Wrenn. I think my list, clearly out numbers, yours. Thanks for playing.

"haha u call that proof???"

I can give you Luke Walton, he is the exception, you give me one more player(other than Walton) to lead his team in assists and not being playing the point in college basketball? Goodluck. I think thats proof enough when 99% of the time, your leading assist man is your point guard. There are exceptions to just about everything but yours is not one. 

"With John Salmons moving onto the NBA and Marcus Barnes getting kciked off the team, Rice will pick up the scoring load and become the #1 option"

So he's better than Walton because he has less talent on his team? Yeah that makes sense.

"Now onto Gaines vs. Wade. Gaines averaged 17 points yet doesnt deserve to be #1 because Wade averaged how much??? oh yeah he averaged less then 17ppg"

Gaines against good competition shot 32% from the field, thats terrible. Wade from the field against top 100 RPI teams averaged 18.2 points per game and shot 45% from the field, this is why I think he is better. Gaines does great agaisnt weak compeition..good for him. 

"Hmm well lets talk about Handles, Gaines is the best combo guard in the nation, and will probably end up playing PG in the NBA"

First off..what does him playing PG in the NBA have to do with anything. Secondly..Gaines averaged 3.6 assists per game which is good but Wade also averaged 3.4 assists per game which is good too. Gaines is not the only one with handles.

"Did Gaines have anybody of Henry's caliber in his backcourt???"

No and he wont again this year. 

"So ya Gaines ranking is justified."

LoL..yeah its justified because hes 2 inches taller..thats about it, foo.

"Potential counts doesn't it???"

A lot of players, have potential. Not a lot of players have proven it. There is the difference. There are a lot of more players out there at his position that have proven themselves. I'll take a proven player over a potentially proven player, any day.


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

I haven't read all of this thread, just parts of it.....but Quannas White is OU's point guard, there is NO question about it. Hollis is able to play pg, as he did parts of last year and the year before, but he is a scorer......


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## AriGold23 (Jul 19, 2002)

man i wanna go another round but ur stupidity and inability to read correctly is making my head hurt. lol. I will let u think wut u want dawg, u are in titled to ur own opinion and obviously cant bear to accept that u could possibly be wrong at certain points. I would LOVE to continue to argue over the same topics over and over, but obviously u are aint gonna change ur opinion. oh btw i never even got a chance to tell u how bad ur list was... 6-9 Freshman Jason Fraser rated ahead of Channing Frye at C lmao. we'll see how the 6-9 Fraser played against the 6-11 Wesley of G-Town and Emeka Okafor of UCONN. Darius Rice not even in the top 10 of SF's. pathetic. Maurice Williams not even in the top 10 while Andre Barrett is.lol O ya and btw who is Jason Garner??? ur dumb since u made a typo (using a lil of ur logic here). Son u have much to learn about b-ball, so until u do please stay off the court.


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

"man i wanna go another round but ur stupidity and inability to read correctly is making my head hurt. lol"

First off, I really doubt it takes that much effort to get your head to hurt.
Another witty comeback, its hard to argue with someone that knows what their talking about, huh? Run along now, I've proven you wrong on every single thing brought up. No where in any part of your last post, did you make a solid argument for anything. You dont want to argue with me anymore because i am to stupid for you? Do you really think that? In case you do, you have been losing an argument to an idiot, which doesnt even make sense because if i was an intelligent person(which I guess I am not) I would not waste my time fighting with a stupid person. Would you? Uh Oh..something is not right here.

"Maurice Williams not even in the top 10 while Andre Barrett is"

Mo Williams
10.4ppg 
3.9rpg
4.5apg
FG%-38
3PT%-26
Andre Barrett
16.9ppg
3.6rpg
5.0apg
FG%-40
3PT%-34
I beg to differ and those are my reasons. Sucks losing an argument to an idiot, huh!! Talk to you later.


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## TerpBurp (Sep 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>iverson3</b>!
> My list...
> 
> PG-
> 1. Kirk Hinrich Kansas (although he will be playin SG this year)


ihatespn, why do even waste time arguing with him? Look at his very first sentence. :laugh: :laugh:


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

LoL TerpBurp..I'll put down Steven Blake as one of the top power forwards next year, even though hes going to be playing PG.


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## AriGold23 (Jul 19, 2002)

hey turpburp obviously u dont know that Hinrich played PG for his first 3 years at Kansas and is moving to the off-guard position to let Aaron Miles run the point. Hinrich will still handle the ball in situations and is going to be drafted into the NBA to play PG. This is why i have listed him as a PG. but obviously u have no prior knowledge of kansas basketball. and ihateespn u base everything on a players averages from last year!! Mo williams was a freshman and started for one of the best teams in the SEC. Maybe if u knew that the biggest growth for a player comes between freshman and sophmore year then u would know that Mo Williams will be way better then Andre Barrett (who cant even get his team out of the Big East cellar). oh ya and turpburp lets talk about ur list....OOOO thats rite u didnt make one. haha. If ur winning the arguements then how come u only responded to my comment about Mo Williams??? Wut about Fraser, Frye, Rice, and ur incorrect spelling of Gardne??? i guess u couldnt think of anything rite?? lmao. please son ur trying to hotbox wit god hure. if u wanna back up ur points, please back them all up.


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

"hey turpburp obviously u dont know that Hinrich played PG for his first 3 years at Kansas"

Actually last year, Miles was Ku's point guard. Whoops looks like I proved you wrong again or was that just a typo too? Haha. 

"Maybe if u knew that the biggest growth for a player comes between freshman and sophmore year then u would know that Mo Williams will be way better then Andre Barrett (who cant even get his team out of the Big East cellar)."

Okay well then lets compare Mo Williams freshman season to that of Andre Barrets freshman season, two years ago.

Mo Williams
10.4ppg 
3.9rpg
4.5apg
FG%-38
3PT%-26
Andre Barrett's freshman season
10.2ppg
3.3rpg
5.6apg
FG%-44
3PT%-37
Happy now? 
I am sure if Mo Williams played for SHall, he would be able to get them out of the celler, right? Andre Barrett is a better point guard. Just because he has less talent on his team, does not make him worse. How stupid can you get?

"Wut about Fraser, Frye, Rice, and ur incorrect spelling of Gardne??? "

My incorrect spelling of Gardne? LoL..okay you're correct i forgot the R in Gardner...haha you're hanging on by a string my friend and backpeddling faster than ever. Thanks for playing.


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## TerpBurp (Sep 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>iverson3</b>!
> hey turpburp obviously u dont know that Hinrich played PG for his first 3 years at Kansas and is moving to the off-guard position to let Aaron Miles run the point. Hinrich will still handle the ball in situations and is going to be drafted into the NBA to play PG. This is why i have listed him as a PG. but obviously u have no prior knowledge of kansas basketball.


First, I admit that I don't follow teams outside of the ACC that much like you obviously do. However, I do know that Kirk often handled the point for Kansas. Kansas used a two point guard system, pretty much like Duke with Duhon and JW. Both guards shared the duty of bringing the ball up and initiating offense. In crunch situations, the better one will usually handle the ball (obviously). (We also used this system when Drew Nicholas came in for Juan and played with Blake in the back court). 

However, if you want to be technically correct, Hinrich played the SF spot for Kansas with Miles at point and Boschee at the 2. This year he will play primarily at the 2 as Miles proved to be a very good PG. (I absolutely loved his poise in last year's FF). Your putting Kirk as the #1 PG is therefore pretty ridiculous. It's like saying Juan Dixon was the best point guard last year because he's playing point in the NBA right now.  BTW, I would put Hinrich at #1 SG.


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## AriGold23 (Jul 19, 2002)

ihatespn again u didnt tell me about Fraser, Rice, and Frye??? this must mean ur searching all over the internet for a justification of ur rankings haha. Also Miles did not start the season as the starting PG, Hinrich did. Turpburp was rite on the mooney saying that Hinrich was used technically at the SF spot cuz KU used the 3-guard system. 

U say Andre Barrett had less talent on his team??? i would take Eddie Griffin, Darius Lane, Marcus Toney-El, Ty Shine, and the rest of their bunch they used to have over an oft-injred Rod Grizzard and Erwin Dudley (who was SEC player of the year) but thats about all Alabama has had. Griffin was one of the sickest players in all of college for the 1 year he played, and even then Seton Hall wasnt as good as when Shaheen Holloway led them to the sweet 16. O ya im also guessing u didnt see the game Mo Wiliams dropped 33 points in the Tourny. That game alone showed he was the real deal. Also does Barrett have any shot at getting drafted??? dont think so nobody wants that lil guy. But wut about 6-3 Mo Williams, o ya hes nearly a lock for the first round(he is projected to come out for the 04 draft). I look foward to ur next 10 posts ihatespn, cuz there will be 1 post for each of the things i have stated, cuz u willl be looking for more stats from sports websites (most prolly espn even tho u wont admit it) to justify ur terrible points.


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## ihatespn (Sep 8, 2002)

"ihatespn again u didnt tell me about Fraser, Rice, and Frye???"

Neither Frye or Fraser are proven low post threats, so its mostly based upon potential and its hard to argue about who is right and who is wrong when potential is taken into consideration with two different players being built up mostly upon it and I like Frasers potential better. If you think Frye is better, I couldnt argue against because Fraser has not played on the college level yet, so its hard to say, right now. I see your point though for having Frye ahead of Fraser, however, I have seen both play before in the ranks of highschool and Fraser was the more talented on that level but we will just have to wait and see what Fraser will do, I have confidence in what he can bring defensively and on the boards for Nova but its hard to say with freshman. 
What do you want me to say about Rice? I dont think hes that great. You tell me who I should have replaced him with on my list and then we can debate that. Until then, get over it, you havent proven me wrong on anything.

"Also Miles did not start the season as the starting PG, Hinrich did. Turpburp was rite on the mooney saying that Hinrich was used technically at the SF spot cuz KU used the 3-guard system"

He also said that Miles was the point guard, which he was, which is my point. Hinrich played on the wing for the "majority" of the seaosn last year, proving your statement wrong, once again.

"U say Andre Barrett had less talent on his team??? ??? i would take Eddie Griffin, Darius Lane, Marcus Toney-El, Ty Shine, and the rest of their bunch"

When did I ever say that? When I was refering to the talent of each teams roster, I was refering to last years Seton Hall team. The 2001 Seton Hall team, was very talented and very underachieving but right there in talent with Bama, as were Barretts numbers with Mo Williams. In other words, I am given the advantage to Barrett because he is a year older and has an extra year of experience under his belt. 

"Also does Barrett have any shot at getting drafted??? dont think so nobody wants that lil guy. But wut about 6-3 Mo Williams, o ya hes nearly a lock for the first round(he is projected to come out for the 04 draft)."

What does that have to do with anything? I am not saying Barrett will be a higher draft pick, I am not saying he will be a better NBA player, I am saying as of right now, he is a better college point guard than Mo Williams. There is a difference. What lies ahead in the future, has yet to be seen. 

"I look foward to ur next 10 posts ihatespn, cuz there will be 1 post for each of the things i have stated, cuz u willl be looking for more stats from sports websites (most prolly espn even tho u wont admit it) to justify ur terrible points."

You mean those exact same terrible points that keep proving you wrong, time and time again?


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>iverson3</b>!
> ihatespn again u didnt tell me about Fraser, Rice, and Frye??? this must mean ur searching all over the internet for a justification of ur rankings haha. Also Miles did not start the season as the starting PG, Hinrich did. Turpburp was rite on the mooney saying that Hinrich was used technically at the SF spot cuz KU used the 3-guard system.
> 
> U.


Hate to say it, I am sorry, Iverson3. Miles was a STARTER all season long


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

Closing thread. The thread got out of control, and got out of the point on what this thread was to cover on.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ihatespn</b>!
> Kansalum...How can Ku have two point guards? I disagree. Hinrich will be playing off the ball this year, at least that is where he will be starting, so put him on that list. Same for Hollis Price. Quannas White will be the one running the show for them, just like last year. Come on now, man.
> Just curious but why do you have Aaron Miles ahead of Troy Bell? Or how about why do you have him ahead of Maurice Williams or Ed Scott or Steven Blake or Tom Coverdale? Take note, that when you make top 10 lists and try and be as subjective as possible. It makes a big difference, in a good way. Dont be a little baby and only add your favorite players that play on your favorite team.
> As for Reece Gaines being the best SG, look at his #'s against good quality competition and then tell me, who is the best SG in the country. It's not him. It's Dwayne Wade.
> ...


Just because someone differs with your opinion on "talent" does not mean they are required to give you an explanation of their opinion. They are free to respond or not respond. Please check your PMs.

Do NOT insult other posters, as we are all entitled to our own opinion.
TheRifleman, ADMINISTRATOR


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