# All but official, Kwame Brown a Laker



## Damian Necronamous

LINK 

I'm not a member, but as you can clearly see on the Philadelphia Inquirer's website, they have a link to an article entitled _Wizards reportedly working deal with Lakers for Butler_.

A poster at CL.com posted the article...

_ Wizards reportedly working deal with Lakers for Butler

By DAVID ALDRIDGE

Philadelphia Inquirer

LAS VEGAS - The Washington Wizards, stung by the loss of free agent Larry Hughes to the Cavaliers, may be able to stanch the sting.

Sources involved with the discussions say that the Wizards are talking to the Los Angeles Lakers about a sign-and-trade deal in which forward Kwame Brown, the top pick in the 2001 NBA draft, would go to the Lakers in exchange for swingman Caron Butler.

The Wizards have other options on the table that could bring them a much-needed big man in return for Brown, but Butler would make a lot of sense.

Butler has been available during most of his yearlong stay in Los Angeles. If the Lakers move him and, as expected, release forward Brian Grant in order to save money under the luxury tax, they would have precious little to show for their blockbuster trade of Shaquille O'Neal to Miami. _

If it's written by David Aldridge, I 100% believe it. He is the most credible sports writer around IMO.

I would not be in favor of this deal. Kwame Brown is completely unproven, while Caron has actually done something in the league. Although, it's tough because Kwame COULD be a very good player for us. If I were the Lakers, I'd push for Caron Butler, Brian Cook and Devean George for Kwame Brown and Jarvis Hayes.


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## Cap

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

That's disheartening because Kwame is so damn heartless and brainless. But hey, if the Wizards include a good first rounder, I'd do it. But still, banking a good deal of your title hopes on Kwame Brown? Makes me shiver. I can only hope Phil Jackson can Zen his way into Kwame's head and set him straight.


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## Cris

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

there has to be a pick or something involved, as much i dont believe it Mitch isnt that stupid...... Or is he? anyways "The Official Fire Mitch Clique" is still open


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## luizmelo

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

I hope this trade don´t happen. I can´t see K. Brown like a good pf in the triangle. But I can be wrong...


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## cmd34

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

We would be taking all of the gamble and risking future cap room. Washington rids themself of a raw but talented kid who they kicked off their playoff roster and gets a young SF who will drop in at least 15 a night.
We had better get a future # 1 because we will be looking real stupid if Phil buries Kwame at the end of the bench and Caron is helping Gilbert and Antawn advance in the playoffs. 

Knowing Mitch "Take my wallet" Kupchak we will be the ones throwing in the first round pick.


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## Cris

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

Kwame is going to have to take a serious pay cut or we're going to have to include a filler


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

No way am I in favor of this trade...


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## Jaj

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

If we can dump Atkins on them, then I'm all for it.


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## cmd34

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

Oh, them taking on the salary of викиди is must. No deal unless they take him.




викиди is Ukrainian for trash.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Jaj said:


> If we can dump Atkins on them, then I'm all for it.


Are you serious? 

A) Sasha currently is the only other PG
B) Atkins ideally is a stellar backup
C) Atkins deal ends at the end of next season
D) I don't consider it a fair deal to begin with, adding assets doesn't help


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## SoCalfan21

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

if he does this deal im goin to his house and slapping him some 230.032 times


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## HKF

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

Honestly for as selfish as people call Kobe, I think he'd make Kwame Brown a better player than Arenas and Hughes did. Kwame has talent and personally Small Forwards like Butler are a dime a dozen. I mean's 25 years old now. How much better is he going to get. He's a good starter, but nothing special. I say take a chance and see what happens. I remember the last two bigs who got traded out of Washington turning their careers around as well (Webber and Rasheed).


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## TucsonClip

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

I agree, every year there are players in the draft who can have the same impact as Caron. Fact of the matter is.. Odom is a SF and if Kwame can become a good player, not live up to his hype, the team becomes much better. I would love to see a developed Kwame and a young stud, Bynum, holding down the frount court in a few years.

Any trade that allows Odom to log more minutes at SF then PF, needs to be done.


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Cris said:


> Kwame is going to have to take a serious pay cut or we're going to have to include a filler


Oh yeah, Vlade Divac, Devean George, Chucky Atkins or Slava Medvedenko would be added in as a filler.

It had better not be Chucky, because even though he plays no defense, he's still a good backup PG. I'd rather keep him or include him in some other deal than just throw him away to the Wizards.

If it were Caron and Slava for Kwame, we could be looking at a lineup of...

PG: (Antonio Daniels?)...Chucky Atkins...Sasha Vujacic
SG: Kobe Bryant...Von Wafer
SF: Lamar Odom...Jumaine Jones...Devean George
PF: Kwame Brown...(Brian Grant?)...Ronny Turiaf...Brian Cook
C: Chris Mihm...(Vlade Divac?)...Andrew Bynum

It's a solid team, but I just don't feel comfortable with trading a proven player with a good attitude for an unproven player with the reputation of having a bad attitude.


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## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

This is bull****. I am 100% opposed to this trade. Phil will never be able to teach him desire. Nobody can. Our need for big men does not overlap the need for players with heart.


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## HKF

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

I don't know if Kwame doesn't have desire. I do know that he went into a situation where he was berated by Jordan and Collins for two years and then they left and he played in an offense that turns the bigs into pick setters and rebounders exclusively. I wonder if you played D, fought hard for position and never saw the rock, what would you be thinking? Let's be honest, the Wizards play their best when all of their bigs are Ruffin, Etan Thomas or Brendan Haywood. Kwame is a skilled big man who needs touches, which the Wiz weren't going to provide him with.

Didn't he twice have to call for the ball to be thrown inside more, which followed by Arenas not shooting at all to prove a point? Which only hurt the team, because why have a 7'0 talented big guy and never give him the ball.

I'm not trying to make excuses for Kwame, but he has had flashes of brilliance (hence his 30/20 game against the Kings) here and there and shown he can score on the pro level. I bet you Kobe's penetration and dishing skills (along with Odom's passing from the 3 spot would be like night and day).

I think they should take a chance.


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## Brian34Cook

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

Yeah I'm sure this will happen.. Afterall Kwame is the key to a title .. Ok I'm done with my sarcasm. 

I wouldnt mind this trade actually but it depends what the deal would be.. 

But.. It's not done.. Until it's done.


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## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

I'm with HKF. 

Kwame is a gamble, but a high reward one. It's not like they're dealing anything valuable really. Caron Butler is so average and replaceable it isn't even funny. There are several wings that come into the league every year that are better, in my opinion.


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## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=182091

Peter Vescey had the scoop on something??? amazing


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Like I said before, I would think that this trade would be fair for both teams...

Caron Butler
Devean George
Brian Cook

FOR

Kwame Brown
Jarvis Hayes

Butler is the best player in the deal, and to compensate for this and the risk the Lakers are taking on Brown, Hayes is thrown in along with George and Cook. George and Cook could both help the Wizards out, while they are lost in the rotation in Los Angeles. Of course...I'm just a fan.


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## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

I hope Jack Haley reports it like crazy.


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Cris said:


> http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=182091
> 
> Peter Vescey had the scoop on something??? amazing


Vescey likely pulled it out of his rear-end and just got lucky.


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## HallOfFamer

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I'm with HKF.
> 
> Kwame is a gamble, but a high reward one. It's not like they're dealing anything valuable really. Caron Butler is so average and replaceable it isn't even funny. There are several wings that come into the league every year that are better, in my opinion.


Thats exactly what I was saying in the other thread. We know what we're gonna get out of Butler and though he's a safe bet, I dont think we'll get that far with him as one of the main bases of the team. With Kwame though, we could either make a big horrible decision, or get a steal for a guy who had the talent to the #1 pick, who is still young, and this next couple years will prove if he is either the Kandiman or the 20/10 guy that he was originally thought to be. I say we take this risk. I love Butler, hes always been one of my favorite players but having Odom move to SF and having a serviceable PF will do wonders for this team on both sides of the ball.


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## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

so all that **** about the "disgruntaled all star" WAS BOGUS!


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## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

If this goes through and Kwame taps his potential, I will gladly eat the crow. I just don't think it will happen. He doesn't appear to have the mindset of a Jermaine O'Neal. But it's not like I know the guy.


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## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

you know what....any trade that will get Odom to start at SF and getting a decent PF is a great trade by me


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## The One

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



SoCalfan21 said:


> you know what....any trade that will get Odom to start at SF and getting a decent PF is a great trade by me


Agreed.


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## Jaj

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

It's worth it because we're going to lose Caron sooner or later anyway with his deal approaching its end. 

It's a hefty price to pay but hopefully with Daniels, Bryant, Odom, Brown, and Mihm we'll be able to atleast compete for the 5 or 6 seed next year. Considering that Seattle made it so high without an unbelievable roster we should be able to do so as well.


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## Cap

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

Jamel, I think you're overrating Atkins a bit. Have you seen Von Wafer? He's just as good a shooter as Atkins with equally good court vision, but with 10 times the athleticism and defensive ability. Parker's the same way, but without the jump shot. The SPL games show how replacable Atkins is defensively, and since all Atkins did offensively was hit the open jumper, Von Wafer can easily duplicate that with his shooting ability and Atkins becomes just another expiring contract.


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## Lynx

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Like many die Laker fans on this board, I am not too sure about this deal either. I mean you love the potential in Kwame Brown, but is trading Butler worth the risk of acquiring a player that could turn out to be the biggest bust in NBA history. Butler is a proven talent and I think we can do better for him, or worst case we just keep him on the roster. But I have a hard time taking on Brown for a guy who average 20 ppg in the last 15 games last season. Maybe, I'm alone on this but something about Kwame Brown screams trouble.


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## lafever8

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

if we get kwame, then ronny turief will have a tough time getting minutes.


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## BallStateCards

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



lafever8 said:


> if we get kwame, then ronny turief will have a tough time getting minutes.


If Turiaf can play as well as he has, there will be no problem for him getting minutes immediately.


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

This has now made the frontpage of RealGM and Hoopshype and there is a segment on it in Insider.


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## tatahbenitez

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

I really hope this trade goes through. It helps both teams. Washington needs a replacement for the recently departed Hughes and Los Angeles need some low post help now.

I know Kwame has been a big disappointment so far, but he is still only 23 years old and a change of environment would help him greatly. Besides, I think Kwame will be motivated with Phil Jackson coaching him. Just remember that Phil helped keep Dennis Rodman in check while playing with The Bulls, so anything is possible.

Kwame doesn't even have to live up to expectations with Kobe and Lamar on the team. I would be extatic if Kwame averaged 15/9/2.5 (points/rebounds/blocks). Though I think a more resonable line would be 12/8/2 for his first year on The Lakers (Kwame would be learning the triangle and that will take time to learn). The Lakers need defensive low post help in a serious way. Bynum will contribute, but that is still a few years away. Turiaf could be a good PF, but he is still an unproven rookie. If I were Mitch "the 2nd GM" Kupchak, I'd push through with this trade.


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## Sean

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

No thanks.


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## Locke

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

This would be the definition of gambling. The Lakers would be giving up their most valuable trading piece for a guy who's already fallen flat on his face in his career and shows no desire, heart, maturity willingness to improve, nor a good attitude. However, IF he ever does the Lakers will have stolen him. While I like Butler as a person (from what I've seen and heard from him) and a player, like some of you have already pointed out, you can find plenty other players who can do the same things as he does.


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## LamarButler

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



> Didn't he twice have to call for the ball to be thrown inside more, which followed by Arenas not shooting at all to prove a point?


I never heard about that but it seems pretty bad. Gilbert is not the right PG. Kobe isn't even PG yet he averaged more assists this season. Sometimes during the course of the season you would see Kobe give the ball to guys like Slava, Sasha and Luke Walton and they wouldn't do good things with the ball, yet he still passed to them. 

Although Kwame hasn't been put in the right environment, I wouldn't count on Kwame Brown becoming a good player since hes been in the league for 4 years but he hasn't lived up to his potential. It seems a little risky when so many of our frontcourt players are unproven. I don't think Kwame will get better cause of his work ethic. I think we can get a lot better for Caron.


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## HKF

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

All I know is, like tahahbenitez said, Phil kept Rodman in check (with also help of Jordan of course), but what they also did was ressurrect Brian Williams (Bison Dele's) career as well, although many people may not remember that. 

I could see Kobe taking Kwame under his wing and telling him, if you just play D, rebound, run the floor and protect the paint for us, you will see the ball all the time. Unlike Washington, where doing that means you still won't touch it. Unlike the other bigs on the roster (excluding Andrew Bynum), Kwame has the physical talent to be something. Cook, Slava, Turiaf, Grant, are simply serviceable bigs. No one you want to hitch your wagon to or anything. I actually think this is a low risk, high reward, because Kwame gets a change of a scenery, where he is not in the spotlight (let's be honest, it's Phil, Kobe and Odom) and he goes right into a system (the triangle) that if he works, he'll see more balls then he needs. 

Finally, I just don't know what the appeal about Butler is. I know as fans people want to talk about how great the players are, but sometimes they are what they are. Caron is a 6'6 SF, who is not getting any better. He's still an average perimeter shooter, good slasher and good defender. Odom is running out of chances to prove he's not one of the biggest wastes of talent in NBA history. If Tex Winter says that Odom could be one of the top 3's in the game, then move his *** there and get Butler the hell out of here. I like Caron, wish him well, but he's a 3rd fiddle at best on a good team and not when Odom has to defend 4 men, because Odom can't do it full-time in the West.

I also don't see why the deal can't just be Caron Butler and Slava Medvedenko for Kwame Brown.

PG - Antonio Daniels (MLE), Chucky Atkins
SG - Kobe Bryant, Jumaine Jones
SF - Lamar Odom, Devean George, Luke Walton (he stinks but whatever)
PF - Kwame Brown, Ronny Turiaf, Brian Cook
C - Chris Mihm, Brian Grant, Andrew Bynum

I'd expect Von Wafer and Sasha Vujacic to go to the minor leagues. Which would leave one spot open on the roster. Grab a cheap third-string PG (but not Smush Parker, someone with some BBall IQ please).


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## kamego

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Very interesting trade that could happen here. I like it for both teams though. Washington needs to get rid of Brown and replace Hughes, which Butler should be able to do. Brown gives LAL a very nice young center who could turn out to be a very good player if he learns the mind game.


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## HKF

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



LamarButler said:


> Although Kwame hasn't been put in the right environment, I wouldn't count on Kwame Brown becoming a good player since hes been in the league for 4 years but he hasn't lived up to his potential. It seems a little risky when so many of our frontcourt players are unproven. I don't think Kwame will get better cause of his work ethic. I think we can get a lot better for Caron.


I just want to ask a question. Who do you honestly feel would trade a proven talented big man for Caron Butler? The team trading would need a SF (and Magloire isn't going to be traded for Butler) and have a talented big man to give up. I'd love for the Clippers to trade Wilcox for Butler, but that aint happening. 

I remember Donnie Walsh gutting a championship team and rebuilding on the fly, by trading a good Dale Davis (but nothing spectacular) for an unproven Jermaine O'Neal. For as unproven as Kwame is, he's still done more than Jermaine O'Neal ever did. Just check their career numbers. Kwame actually flashed good ability.


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## Lynx

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



HKF said:


> All I know is, like tahahbenitez said, Phil kept Rodman in check (with also help of Jordan of course)


....but Rodman's potential were shown long before he came to the Bulls. He won championships with Detriot.

We are talking about Kwame Brown here. He won't give us 10-12 boards per game unless he works his butt off. I like Butler but to him trade for some one who has been the biggest bust in the NBA draft lottery history won't be justice.

Hell, I'd love to deal Caron because as much of a nice player, goodie goodie person he has been, we need interior depth. But for Kwame? **** No! (excused my language)


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



HKF said:


> All I know is, like tahahbenitez said, Phil kept Rodman in check (with also help of Jordan of course), but what they also did was ressurrect Brian Williams (Bison Dele's) career as well, although many people may not remember that.
> 
> I could see Kobe taking Kwame under his wing and telling him, if you just play D, rebound, run the floor and protect the paint for us, you will see the ball all the time. Unlike Washington, where doing that means you still won't touch it. Unlike the other bigs on the roster (excluding Andrew Bynum), Kwame has the physical talent to be something. Cook, Slava, Turiaf, Grant, are simply serviceable bigs. No one you want to hitch your wagon to or anything. I actually think this is a low risk, high reward, because Kwame gets a change of a scenery, where he is not in the spotlight (let's be honest, it's Phil, Kobe and Odom) and he goes right into a system (the triangle) that if he works, he'll see more balls then he needs.
> 
> Finally, I just don't know what the appeal about Butler is. I know as fans people want to talk about how great the players are, but sometimes they are what they are. Caron is a 6'6 SF, who is not getting any better. He's still an average perimeter shooter, good slasher and good defender. Odom is running out of chances to prove he's not one of the biggest wastes of talent in NBA history. If Tex Winter says that Odom could be one of the top 3's in the game, then move his *** there and get Butler the hell out of here. I like Caron, wish him well, but he's a 3rd fiddle at best on a good team and not when Odom has to defend 4 men, because Odom can't do it full-time in the West.
> 
> I also don't see why the deal can't just be Caron Butler and Slava Medvedenko for Kwame Brown.
> 
> PG - Antonio Daniels (MLE), Chucky Atkins
> SG - Kobe Bryant, Jumaine Jones
> SF - Lamar Odom, Devean George, Luke Walton (he stinks but whatever)
> PF - Kwame Brown, Ronny Turiaf, Brian Cook
> C - Chris Mihm, Brian Grant, Andrew Bynum
> 
> I'd expect Von Wafer and Sasha Vujacic to go to the minor leagues. Which would leave one spot open on the roster. Grab a cheap third-string PG (but not Smush Parker, someone with some BBall IQ please).


I'm not against this trade because Butler is great, it's because Kwame isn't. I wouldn't even spend the MLE on him. Butler could of probably gotten us Swift in a S&T if we were aggressive and patient enough.

He's 23 years old and hasn't even shown he can be a starter yet. It would be like trading Lamar for Darko, but at least Darko is 20. 



> Jamel, I think you're overrating Atkins a bit. Have you seen Von Wafer? He's just as good a shooter as Atkins with equally good court vision, but with 10 times the athleticism and defensive ability. Parker's the same way, but without the jump shot. The SPL games show how replacable Atkins is defensively, and since all Atkins did offensively was hit the open jumper, Von Wafer can easily duplicate that with his shooting ability and Atkins becomes just another expiring contract.


Overrating how? Calling him a stellar backup? He's been one every year in the league. Atkins didn't score 20 ppg a game when Kobe went out off open jumpers alone. 

I think you are overrating Wafer the same way you overrated Tierre Brown in the preseason by saying they are better than Chucky. It's one thing to do it in long beach, another to do it in a 20,000 seat arena.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Lynx said:


> ....but Rodman's potential were shown long before he came to the Bulls. He won championships with Detriot.
> 
> We are talking about Kwame Brown here. He won't give us 10-12 boards per game unless he works his butt off. I like Butler but to him trade for some one who has been the biggest bust in the NBA draft lottery history won't be justice.
> 
> Hell, I'd love to deal Caron because as much of a nice player, goodie goodie person he has been, we need interior depth. But for Kwame? **** No! (excused my language)


Rodman and Williams were players long before they got to the Bulls. Kwame is a 23 year old 4 year vet with no production to show for it. And on top of that he's a headcase. Hell Eddie Griffin has been as good as he has. He had a 30 point game against the Kings? Didn't Butler at the end of last year? Didn't Rush have one two years ago?


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## HKF

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

I'd take a chance simply because it's not that Kwame doesn't have game. He does. He's also played for two years not getting the ball. Being on the court and not getting the ball enough. 

I simply can't forget what happened the last time the Wizards had two 20 something 4 men and didn't know what to do with them in Webb and Sheed. Washington seems to be the place where good 4 men go to flounder. I bet you, he'd break out on the Lakers.


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## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



> Ben Maller of Fox Sports Radio says "One thing to keep in mind is Chris Webber, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Bobby Simmons and Rip Hamilton all flourished after they left the Wizards."



something to keep in mind


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Cris said:


> something to keep in mind


Chris Webber and Rip Hamilton were great players in Washington.

Rasheed was traded after his rookie year where he averaged double figures only because they had Webber and Howard and a hobbled Mark Price at PG. Not because they gave up on him or something. It's the same reason we are trading Butler, we have no PF but a lot of SF's. 

Ben Wallace and Bobby Simmons weren't given enough playing time in Washington, Kwame got plenty of chances.


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## lafever8

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

i wouldnt mind kwame in a laker uniform, but i just think that we can get much more for caron than kwame. caron can be used in packages to get jamal maglore, and, he can be traded straight up for boozer. i would much rather have boozer or maglore than kwame.


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## Drewbs

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Someone like Kwmae jst makes me nervous.


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## HKF

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



lafever8 said:


> i wouldnt mind kwame in a laker uniform, but i just think that we can get much more for caron than kwame. caron can be used in packages to get jamal maglore, and, he can be traded straight up for boozer. i would much rather have boozer or maglore than kwame.


You must truly think Butler is worth more than he is. Boozer is not coming and neither is Magloire for Caron.


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## tatahbenitez

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



lafever8 said:


> i wouldnt mind kwame in a laker uniform, but i just think that we can get much more for caron than kwame. caron can be used in packages to get jamal maglore, and, he can be traded straight up for boozer. i would much rather have boozer or maglore than kwame.


Caron is a good player and may have some trade value, but he is not worth Boozer or Magliore. Odom on the other hand would probably have better value on the open market, but I'd rather keep Odom and trade Butler.

Right now, this trade rumor with Washington is probably the best The Lakers can get. Washington is frantically searching for Hughes replacement and would be more agreeable with this trade. If Hughes didn't leave for Cleaveland, I don't think Washington would even be looking at The Lakers now.

Mitch should go for this deal if it is on the table. And the only way he shouldn't go for it is if there is a better deal for Caron (though I don't see any).


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## Foulzilla

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

While I do agree that Butler is worth a bit more then Kwame, I'd try and make it work. Kwame has a lot of potential to break out, and I think playing with Kobe and Phil has a reasonable chance of bringing that out of him. Perhaps you can get a future 1st pick with him, but I doubt much else. I think he's worth the risk.


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## BBB

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

I've said this before, I'm going to say this again... I would love to see Kwame Brown play for us. 

He has shown glimpses of his potential, and he really does have a lot of potential. I love Caron Butler and all, but this is a high reward situation, albeit the high risks involved. Personally, I'd take the risk.


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## h8breed

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

if we can get Blatche and Brown and Hayes then ill all for it by trading Douhit Butler and Slava


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## Max Payne

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Back in December 2003, I went to a Bucks-Wizards game while I was down in DC for a few days. Kwame started and they were actually feeding him the ball down low...if I remember correctly, Arenas was injured and they started going to Kwame early. Hell I was really surprised by his quickness and footwork in the post. Sure it was Dan Gadzuric and Joe Smith guarding him, but Kwame ended up with 29 and 12, with a few nice blocks as well. The Bucks won due to their then backcourt, which had Ford, Redd and Tim Thomas all scoring very well, but Kwame showed some nice skill to go with his athleticism. 
Later on in the season, he scored 30 and pulled down 19 rebounds against the Kings. It just seems that this kid has the athleticism and a very nice skill set for a 4 man. Given the right kind of influences and motivation, I think he could become a productive big man. Should the Lakers go for him ? Absolutely.


----------



## tone wone

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

what exactly do laker fans want out of Kwame Brown....do expect and all-star or quality big man in the western conference...cause he doesn't have to reach ALL of his potential to be a quality big man


----------



## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

i want a PF, if its Brown or someone else. Odom is much much much more suited at the 3


----------



## Jaj

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Worst comes to worse he puts up 10-11 ppg playing about 27 minutes. Best comes to best who knows but getting a quality 4, will help Mihm. He has the body to be able to give the big PFs a hard time in the Western Conference. We need a C/PF not a SF/PF.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Something I wrote about this in my personal forum...



HKF said:


> I was thinking about this Kwame to the Lakers thing (should it happen).
> 
> 1. The Wizards have a history of letting guys go and watching them turn into productive players while helping their teams win (Ben Wallace, Bobby Simmons, Richard Hamilton, Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace).
> 
> 2. There is no pressure on Kwame to succeed. Fans and the media have written him off as a bust, so all he has to do is be mediocre and he'll meet fan expectations. Not to mention, some would say coming to the Lakers is more pressure, but I disagree and here's why.
> 
> Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant and Lamar Odom have all the pressure on them:
> 
> a. Phil needs/wants to prove that he can win without two superstars and that he can coach Kobe.
> b. Kobe wants to prove that he's still the best perimeter player in the game and that he's not the reason for the Lakers dynasty ending and rebuild his rep (as not being selfish, arrogant and unable to lead).
> c. Odom wants to finally prove that he is past all the problems and become the all-star he should have been years ago and help a championship level team.
> 
> 3. How sweet would it be for Kobe that the guy who Michael Jordan ruined, suddenly came alive due to his leadership and motivation? Something his airness couldn't do. Turn Kwame Brown into an above average quality NBA starting big man.
> 
> 4. Finally, how sweet would it be for Kwame to shed the tag of bust and contribute to a playoff team and turn his entire career around on the NBA's glamour team, the Los Angeles Lakers. If you turn your career around, you'll be a fan favorite and beloved in the city of Angels and hated all across the league.
> 
> 5. If you don't bust out and become an average player, does it really matter anyway? Everyone thought you were a bust, so you didn't disprove that and the Lakers only gave up Caron Butler, who's not even one of the 20 most valuable small forwards in the league. So you're giving up nothing for potentially a great reward.
> 
> C'mon Kupchak and Phil, make this deal happen.


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sean said:


> No thanks.


ditto dont do it...if they do i will destroy the whole lakers front office...thats how mad i would get


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



tone wone said:


> what exactly do laker fans want out of Kwame Brown....do expect and all-star or quality big man in the western conference...cause he doesn't have to reach ALL of his potential to be a quality big man


Im not expecting the 25/12 guy and franchise player that everyone was expecting when he was coming out of HS. I think 16/8 while defending the paint is good enough as far as this team goes. He's still only 22/23, it would've been his rookie season had he come out of college. This kid will be a pretty good player if he comes down to LA, IMO.

I just don't think we can get a better deal for Butler. Which team has a pretty good PF that has the contract to match Butler's and is willing to trade him? I really can't think of any. 

If this trade goes down, I'll be happy. I'll miss Caron, but having Kwame will be a huge upgrade from having Odom at the PF position.


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



SoCalfan21 said:


> you know what....any trade that will get Odom to start at SF and getting a decent PF is a great trade by me





SoCalfan21 said:


> ditto dont do it...if they do i will destroy the whole lakers front office...thats how mad i would get


----------



## Drk Element

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

I will destroy kupcake if this trade happens.:curse:


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

OK HERE IT GOES.....if Kwame is the only ONLY ONLY ONLY PF for Caron i say we just do it......because we need Odom at SF


----------



## compsciguy78

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

I'm with HKF and Patchwork on this one.


Caron Butler is average at the SF position which can you pick up guys to do his work anyday of the week. Caron's value is pretty low IMO, and taking a chance on Kwame is not a big chance if all you are trading is Butler.


This is the way I see Kwame. Jordan and Collins did a number on him mentally. Jordan tried to make him his project and screwed this kids game up. Then when Jordan left he had some good games but with Hughes and Arenas hogging the ball how can you show your stuff. Kwame Brown is what the Lakers need. This kid will be a serviceable backup at the very least, and this is the bottom he will ever be. I see Kwame pulling down 10 boards a game and averaging at least 12 points a game for the Lakers right out of the gate. 

Do this deal Mitch and don't regret trading a guy like Caron Butler. Butler is completely expendable IMHO.


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



HallOfFamer said:


>


my son im havin mixed feelings if hes our last resort then do it but if there are other options and he does it.....got i will destoy them like i stayed earlier


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

see but this is the kind of stupid thing that happens when a GM trys to rush a trade like any trade...


----------



## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

ESPN REPORTING TRADE IS DONE? IM NOT SURE YET


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



SoCalfan21 said:


> OK HERE IT GOES.....if Kwame is the only ONLY ONLY ONLY PF for Caron i say we just do it......because we need Odom at SF


Yeah, I guess I agree there. It's just a really tough decision, because you never know...maybe Caron can play PG. He seems to think he'd be playing the PG position in the triangle, from what I can gather after reading that interview.

I still don't think we should trade Caron and a filler for Kwame straight up, though. We should at least try to get a future first round pick, Jarvis Hayes or Jared Jeffries in the deal as well.


----------



## Juan

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



> ESPN REPORTING TRADE IS DONE


Where, i don't see it.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

thats why i said "im not sure yet" , i got it from a guy at club lakers who said he saw it on ESPNEWS




one guy said it was done, and other said "it was being worked on"

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36159


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Yeah, I guess I agree there. It's just a really tough decision, because you never know...maybe Caron can play PG. He seems to think he'd be playing the PG position in the triangle, from what I can gather after reading that interview.
> 
> I still don't think we should trade Caron and a filler for Kwame straight up, though. We should at least try to get a future first round pick, Jarvis Hayes or Jared Jeffries in the deal as well.


yeah give us jarvis hayes also


----------



## HKF

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



SoCalfan21 said:


> yeah give us jarvis hayes also


Why do you want Jarvis Hayes? Kobe plays 38-40 minutes a night. It would be a waste. You got Jumaine Jones, Devean George and Von Wafer (and Luke Walton if re-signed). What would Hayes do? Sit on the bench and collect dust too?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

If I were the Lakers, I'd definitely do this. Like it was said before, Butler is solid, but the 2/3 position is a dime a dozen these days. This deal is quintessentially low-risk, high reward.

One other thing I disagree with that I saw earlier is that Kwame is not a good fit for the triangle at PF. Looking back at Phil's previous 4s: Grant, Rodman, Walker, Horry, Malone. After looking at that list, none of them, except maybe the first two represent any kind of pattern, therefore there is no real template for a triangle PF. None of them were probably better than 3rd options (that's being very generous), other than Malone and Horry, none really were pieces on offense at all. Kwame can most definitely fit in with that group, because the 4 spot isn't a demanding position in the triangle. Once he gets his head on straight, he can at least be a dependable, double double type type of PF. But he has the potential to be, other than Rodman, the best PF Jackson's had IMO, considering Malone wasn't the same player in his tenure with the Lakers. This is definitely a good move for the Lakers. 

I think the Wizards could get more though, considering that they supposedly got 6 or 7 offers for him.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

It's not done. No such thing was said on ESPNews. Who ever posted that on CL.com or LG.net is a moron and has terrible hearing.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



HKF said:


> Why do you want Jarvis Hayes? Kobe plays 38-40 minutes a night. It would be a waste. You got Jumaine Jones, Devean George and Von Wafer (and Luke Walton if re-signed). What would Hayes do? Sit on the bench and collect dust too?


It would give us more flexibility to deal Jones or Devean...


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

im getting a Car that fits 5 and im driving to mitch's house anyone wit me?


----------



## Unique

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

shot gun!


----------



## IV

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

what are everyone's thought on Caron in this system? I'm not sure he's going to fit, we need a shooter on the perimeter for the bigs and penetrators to get open shots. He's not the right guy so dealing him for a former number one overall pick that is coming from a team that has a history trading players that become great on other teams isn't that bad a idea.


----------



## WhoDaBest23

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Uh Oh Lamar might be mad about this...


----------



## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



SoCalfan21 said:


> im getting a Car that fits 5 and im driving to mitch's house anyone wit me?



he has two houses

156 Gunston Drive, Los Angeles CA, 90049
361 Fordyce Road, Los Angeles CA, 90049

:biggrin: 


dont ask


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

If Kwame ever became a 20 and 10 guy, which isn't out of the question for his ability, this deal would become amazingly lobsided. In order for this deal to be equal, they just need Kwame to defend and rebound well. If Kwame defends the paint and keeps the boards clean, he is already more valuable than Caron Butler. Anything after that is just bonus for the Lakers. 

That said, he seems like kind of a headcase. I don't know if that's because of the Wizards organization turning on him or what. Either way, the key is, it's a risk worth taking. Caron Butler is probably the difference between the Lakers winning 35 or 38 games. He just isn't an impact player, and is a dime a dozen. Kwame could end up taking them to 45-50.


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Cris said:


> he has two houses
> 
> 156 Gunston Drive, Los Angeles CA, 90049
> 361 Fordyce Road, Los Angeles CA, 90049
> 
> :biggrin:
> 
> 
> dont ask


then we have more ground to cover now dont we....


----------



## Sean

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

All of the media that are reporting it are reporting the same thing that emplay said in his report...There are *discussions* between the 2 teams about this trade. Nothing more. 

I can only hope if there is any amount of truth, it gets "Haleyed" and does not come to fruition.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Cris said:


> he has two houses
> 
> 156 Gunston Drive, Los Angeles CA, 90049
> 361 Fordyce Road, Los Angeles CA, 90049
> 
> :biggrin:
> 
> 
> dont ask


Holy crap! HOLY CRAP! Some time...we have GOT to egg Mitch's house! :yes:


----------



## Sean

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Forgive me if I screw this up, I'm on some serious pain killers so the brain functions aren't 100%. 

According to hoopshype, Kwame has a qualifying offer of $6,970,435 for this upcoming season. Caron is set to make $2,448,714 this season. Now those numbers aren't even close to being acceptable for a straight up trade. If there is any real truth to this, then other players would have to be involved. No?


----------



## MJG

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sean said:


> Forgive me if I screw this up, I'm on some serious pain killers so the brain functions aren't 100%.
> 
> According to hoopshype, Kwame has a qualifying offer of $6,970,435 for this upcoming season. Caron is set to make $2,448,714 this season. Now those numbers aren't even close to being acceptable for a straight up trade. If there is any real truth to this, then other players would have to be involved. No?


 Sending along anyone that makes between $3 million and $8 million or so next year along with Butler would make everything work fine. In other words, Divac, Atkins, Mihm, Slava, and George all have the potential to be the filler based on salary.


----------



## Sean

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Supposedly on the mason and ireland show here, Ric Bucher said he just had word from his "Wizards Source" that this is anything but a done deal, in fact, it's more likely than not that this won't go through. Ric said that when he asked his source if this was some sort of a back up or fall through plan, the source said that was a great way of putting it.

Moreover, Ric Bucher said that he feels that as the NBA gets closer to the July 22nd date to begin trades, Kwame Brown's stock is going to go way up and Caron Butler will not be enough to bring in Brown.


----------



## Unique

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Kwame Kwame Kwame!!!! come mitch do it..lamar will get over it


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sean said:


> Forgive me if I screw this up, I'm on some serious pain killers so the brain functions aren't 100%.
> 
> According to hoopshype, Kwame has a qualifying offer of $6,970,435 for this upcoming season. Caron is set to make $2,448,714 this season. Now those numbers aren't even close to being acceptable for a straight up trade. If there is any real truth to this, then other players would have to be involved. No?


Kwame would be re-signed to a multi-year deal likely starting around $6M, and one of our expiring contracts (hopefully Slava) would be included to make it work under the cap.


----------



## Sean

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



MJG said:


> Sending along anyone that makes between $3 million and $8 million or so next year along with Butler would make everything work fine. In other words, Divac, Atkins, Mihm, Slava, and George all have the potential to be the filler based on salary.


Obviously that's true, but why has it not been discussed with this rumor? And is Kwame worth that kind of $$$$? not yet.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Let's be real Sean, Dan Gadzuric just got a 6 year/36 million dollar deal.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Do we still have a TE from the Shaq trade?


----------



## MJG

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sean said:


> Obviously that's true, but why has it not been discussed with this rumor? And is Kwame worth that kind of $$$$? not yet.


 Heh in today's NBA, a player's worth and a player's cost are pretty rarely aligned. We here in DC know first hand with Larry Hughes :dead:

As for the throw-in not being discussed, really, I haven't heard much of anything being discussed at all. Most information floating around is just speculation. The only info I know of is that the two teams are supposedly working on a sign-and-trade with Kwame Brown and Caron Butler. That's about it as far as any official word goes.


----------



## Sean

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



HKF said:


> Let's be real Sean, Dan Gadzuric just got a 6 year/36 million dollar deal.


LOL! True. Bobby simmons just got 9 million. Does that mean they are worth it? nope.

I see what you are saying, but that doesn't necessarily make those kind of salaries a good deal. And the Lakers owner doesn't give out those kinds of paydays very often. 

To me, a current home owner is SoCal, inflated prices are common. My house has doubled, damn near tripled it's "value" according to those who set prices, but does that mean the house is any better than it was 5 years ago? nope, it's still the same house. I see the same thing with many professional athletes.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

We're lucky we grabbed Mihm last year. This year, he could have gotten the max!


----------



## Pinball

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Personally, I'd rather have Magloire because he's a true C and less of a headcase. However, he's also got some motivational issues. He's also longing to return North of the border so who knows how long he'll stay in LA if we were to acquire him. 

I've got some problems with Kwame. His motivation and work ethic have come into question before. However, he's also got a bit of an attitude problem so that concerns me as well. At the same time, he's a legit 6-11 250. He's very strong and at the same time very athletic. He's an excellent rebounder and defender when he puts his mind to it. He's also a very talented low-post player. Talent-wise, he puts Butler to shame. I like Butler as an energetic 6th man off the bench but the guy is an above average starter at best. I think people are longing to hold onto him because we need something to show for the Shaq trade. The truth is that there are dozens of players like him in the league. He's 6-6, has average range, average lateral quickness, good leaping ability, average ball handling skills, below average passing skills, average rebounding ability, and good scoring capabilities. This is the guy we're dying to keep? Lets be honest, as much of a headcase as Odom is, he's got superb talent. He can handle and pss the ball like few players his size. He has the length and quickness to be a pretty good defender as well. It makes sense to hold onto him. What sense does it make to keep a 6th man (Butler) around who will only take minutes away from Odom and force him to play out of position? Obviously, Kwame isn't my ideal choice as an acquistion for Butler but lets be realistic here. People aren't banging down their doors to acquire Caron Butler. The more young, athletic SFs that enter the league, the lower Caron's trade value gets. He's coming off a very productive second half of the season and is cheap as ****. I say we trade him while his value is at its highest. I just don't see him flourishing in an offense that doesn't suit his strengths and on a team where he's constantly rumored to be traded. We've got to find a way to deal him for a big this summer. Even if it's for Kwame, I'm not going to kill myself.


----------



## lafever8

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Laker Freak said:


> Do we still have a TE from the Shaq trade?


what's a TE? a tight end? no, the lakers are a basketball organization, not a football one. :biggrin:


----------



## Juan

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

TE = trade exception.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



lafever8 said:


> what's a TE? a tight end? no, the lakers are a basketball organization, not a football one. :biggrin:


It means trade exception, but the Lakers could use a tight end like Antonio Gates in the paint. :biggrin:


----------



## Lynx

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> Rodman and Williams were players long before they got to the Bulls. Kwame is a 23 year old 4 year vet with no production to show for it. And on top of that he's a headcase. Hell Eddie Griffin has been as good as he has. He had a 30 point game against the Kings? Didn't Butler at the end of last year? Didn't Rush have one two years ago?


Let's put it this way:

Caron Butler is like $100 and you want to spend it. You decide to spend all of it on fake lottery tickets (Kwame Brown). You later cried that you didn't spend that $100 wisely.


----------



## danesh23

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

i think it will be a great trade considering the lakers didnt even make the playoffs last year... i mean this is the same player that didnt get us into the playoffs.... so whats his value to us if we just have 10 other players at that position and at times last yr, I believe we had Jumaine Jones at PF.... JUMAINE JONES.... i wouldnt even consider the guy a SF, more like SG with how many times he shoots beyond the arc and Medvedenko at center...also another SG.... Kwame Brown rarely takes it beyond 18 ft....hes an inside presence, hes not another SG... obviously he does massive talent if he was drafted in front of all those other players....though not a very strong draft yr i might add....he does have massive potential.... what will you get from butler? u know the same inconsistent thing if kobe is around which is always.... he just played well when kobe was gone and we no other options beside odom who also acts like SG... I think we would be lucky to get the deal off....and kobe and bynum are the only untradeable assets on the team.... its not kobe but kobe's supporting cast who didnt get it done during the season...


----------



## Jaj

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Worst comes to worst I see Kwame Brown as a capable starting 4. Best case scenario is much better and considering Caron deserves to be a starter he'll get the opportunity in Washington. I'm all for the deal as it's basically like getting a very high pick in the draft for Caron. If Daniels, Brown, Kobe, Mihm, and Odom are our starting roster than we have a team full of really high draft picks which is never bad.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Lynx said:


> Let's put it this way:
> 
> Caron Butler is like $100 and you want to spend it. You decide to spend all of it on fake lottery tickets (Kwame Brown). You later cried that you didn't spend that $100 wisely.


Why is Kwame Brown a _fake_ lottery ticket? That's implying that there is a 0.00% chance of him ever being as good as Caron Butler. That's pretty bold, especially considering Butler wouldn't even start for 25 of the 30 teams in the league. 

A better analogy would be this. Kwame for Butler is like taking a hundred dollars and spending it on 20 lottery tickets at 5 dollars a piece. These are the type of lottery tickets where you can win double or triple, or like 10x your original money back, or you can lose. So you can end up turning 100 dollars into 1000 dollars, or 500, or 200, or break even, or if you're unlucky, lose money.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Why is Kwame Brown a _fake_ lottery ticket? That's implying that there is a 0.00% chance of him ever being as good as Caron Butler. That's pretty bold, especially considering Butler wouldn't even start for 25 of the 30 teams in the league.
> 
> A better analogy would be this. Kwame for Butler is like taking a hundred dollars and spending it on 20 lottery tickets at 5 dollars a piece. These are the type of lottery tickets where you can win double or triple, or like 10x your original money back, or you can lose. So you can end up turning 100 dollars into 1000 dollars, or 500, or 200, or break even, or if you're unlucky, lose money.


Charlotte (over Wallace)
Miami (over whoever their PG is or SF if they move Wade back to PG)
Washington (over Hayes)
New York (over Thomas or Crawford)
Toronto (over Grahm)

All places Caron would easily start for, and I didn't even get to the central or the entire West. And then there are places like Atlanta that I didn't list where he might start.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> Charlotte (over Wallace)
> Miami (over whoever their PG is or SF if they move Wade back to PG)
> Washington (over Hayes)
> New York (over Thomas or Crawford)
> Toronto (over Grahm)
> 
> All places Caron would easily start for, and *I didn't even get to the central or the entire West*. And then there are places like Atlanta that I didn't list where he might start.


Why...let me help you out there!

Atlanta (over Harrington)
Denver (over whichever scrub SG they have)
Portland (over Outlaw, Miles, Anderson, Webster)
Sacramento (over Martin and Garcia)
LA Clippers (over nobody, because Simmons is gone!)
Golden State (over Dunleavy)
New Orleans (over Nachbar and George Lynch - OUCH!)
Minnesota (over McCants)


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> Charlotte (over Wallace)
> Miami (over whoever their PG is or SF if they move Wade back to PG)
> Washington (over Hayes)
> New York (over Thomas or Crawford)
> Toronto (over Grahm)
> 
> All places Caron would easily start for, and I didn't even get to the central or the entire West. And then there are places like Atlanta that I didn't list where he might start.


My statement was really exaggeration, but let's look at it if you want: 

Toronto
Charlotte
Minnesota
Portland
New Orleans

Those are the teams I think he would start for (all lottery teams by the way). Maybe a couple others, but they are very debatable. Miami wouldn't put Wade back to PG after a great season at SG to make room for Caron Butler. Butler isn't good enough for that to happen for him. New York just picked up Richardson who is better than Butler.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sir Patchwork said:


> My statement was really exaggeration, but let's look at it if you want:
> 
> Toronto
> Charlotte
> Minnesota
> Portland
> New Orleans
> 
> Those are the teams I think he would start for (all lottery teams by the way). Maybe a couple others, but they are very debatable. Miami wouldn't put Wade back to PG after a great season at SG to make room for Caron Butler. Butler isn't good enough for that to happen for him. New York just picked up Richardson who is better than Butler.


Wade was their PG in the sense that he created the offense. All Jones did was bring the ball up and camp around shooting 3s. So you think they would start whatever PG they can sign (since Jones is likely gone and Dooling is a FA) over Butler? Doubt it. 

New York-
Marbury
Richardson
Butler
Pick your 6'6" PF
Frye

And I disagree Richardson is better. He's a better post-up player and shooter but a inferior slasher, ball handler and defender. Plus he shoots too much.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sir Patchwork said:


> My statement was really exaggeration, but let's look at it if you want:
> 
> Toronto
> Charlotte
> Minnesota
> Portland
> New Orleans
> 
> Those are the teams I think he would start for (all lottery teams by the way). Maybe a couple others, but they are very debatable. Miami wouldn't put Wade back to PG after a great season at SG to make room for Caron Butler. Butler isn't good enough for that to happen for him. New York just picked up Richardson who is better than Butler.


Butler could start for Denver, Sacramento, Miami, Washington and even Chicago - all of which are playoff teams.


----------



## LamarButler

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Not Sac, they got Peja and Cuttino.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



LamarButler said:


> Not Sac, they got Peja and Cuttino.


They don't have Cuttino...


----------



## tone wone

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

since big men are harder to come by than swingmen...the more important question is how many teams Kwame could start for


----------



## HKF

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Butler isn't a shooting guard. He's a 6'5 SF. He wouldn't start next to Melo because he's redundant.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



HKF said:


> Butler isn't a shooting guard. He's a 6'5 SF. He wouldn't start next to Melo because he's redundant.


Caron could definitely start at SG. He has good ball-handling skills.


----------



## danesh23

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



> since big men are harder to come by than swingmen...the more important question is how many teams Kwame could start for


we would start for my team


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



HKF said:


> Butler isn't a shooting guard. He's a 6'5 SF. He wouldn't start next to Melo because he's redundant.


I agree, I don't think you could just stick him at either wing position. He is a small forward, which weighed into my view of which teams he'd start for. He definitely wouldn't start for Chicago or Denver.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> Wade was their PG in the sense that he created the offense. All Jones did was bring the ball up and camp around shooting 3s. So you think they would start whatever PG they can sign (since Jones is likely gone and Dooling is a FA) over Butler? Doubt it.


Damon Jones camping around and shooting threes, while giving them another ball handler is what they need. Butler would be doing those same things basically, except Damon Jones is a lot better ball handler and a lot better shooter. Butler in the starting lineup would only take away from Wade's opportunities to attack. Jones-Wade-Jones is better than Wade-Jones-Butler. More variety and less overlapping of skills, which again goes back to how easy it is to find someone who does what Butler does.

And Allan Houston is better than Caron Butler too, when talking about basketball strictly. Houston/Richardon on the wings with Marbury running the point is what they'd do most likely. Houston was out this past year, and has a huge contract, but shouldn't be forgotten.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Damon Jones camping around and shooting threes, while giving them another ball handler is what they need. Butler would be doing those same things basically, except Damon Jones is a lot better ball handler and a lot better shooter. Butler in the starting lineup would only take away from Wade's opportunities to attack. Jones-Wade-Jones is better than Wade-Jones-Butler. More variety and less overlapping of skills, which again goes back to how easy it is to find someone who does what Butler does.


That's all moot because, like I said, Damon Jones is gone.



> And Allan Houston is better than Caron Butler too, when talking about basketball strictly. Houston/Richardon on the wings with Marbury running the point is what they'd do most likely. Houston was out this past year, and has a huge contract, but shouldn't be forgotten.


I'm going to expect a lot out of a 35 year old coming off a major injury (and might be waived) except that he will probably play like Dell Curry, Dale Ellis and Glen Rice did at the same age.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> That's all moot because, like I said, Damon Jones is gone.


Where did he sign? 



Jamel Irief said:


> I'm going to expect a lot out of a 35 year old coming off a major injury (and might be waived) except that he will probably play like Dell Curry, Dale Ellis and Glen Rice did at the same age.


I guess we just don't see eye to eye on Butler. If he is starting for your team, you better be damn good at every other position or else you'll be at the bottom half of the lottery teams. Butler is a 6th or 7th man at best. Kwame could be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a title team. It wouldn't take much for him to be a 6th or 7th man type player.

If this was Odom we were talking about, it would be different, but Butler is just not that good. He should be mentioned in the same sentence with Atkins and Mihm. Solid backups.


----------



## Brian34Cook

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Wizards working to trade Brown










Still staggering from the loss of shooting guard Larry Hughes, the Washington Wizards are aggressively trying to find a new home for restricted free agent forward Kwame Brown and trying to fill their need for more front-line help.

A league source said yesterday that the Wizards have scheduled a meeting this weekend with free agent forward Donyell Marshall, who averaged 11.5 points and 6.6 rebounds for the Toronto Raptors last season. Marshall, 32, who is hosting a basketball camp in Reading, Pa., this week, has averaged 12.4 points and 7.3 rebounds in an 11-year career with Minnesota, Golden State, Utah, Chicago and Toronto. He has shot better than 40 percent from beyond the three-point line the past two seasons.

The Wizards have talked with several teams regarding a possible sign-and-trade involving former No. 1 pick Brown, a team source said. A source with knowledge of the discussions said the *Lakers are considering offering swingman Caron Butler, and one of the following players: center Vlade Divac, point guard Chucky Atkins or swingman Devean George.*

The 6-foot-7 Butler averaged 15.5 points and 5.8 rebounds last season and can play either shooting guard or small forward. He has been considered expendable since the Lakers acquired him as part of the blockbuster deal that sent Shaquille O'Neal to Miami last summer. Divac, Atkins or George would be thrown in for salary cap purposes. It's also possible the deal could include a 2006 first-round draft pick, which the Lakers acquired from Miami in the O'Neal trade. Divac, who is slated to earn $5.4 million next season, can be bought out of his contract for $2 million. That would save the Wizards $3.4 million on their salary cap, money that could be used to acquire other free agents.

Brown's agent, Arn Tellem, was scheduled to meet with Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak last night, according to a league source.

[More in URL]


----------



## Cap

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Boy, having to give the Wizards Miami's 06 #1? Christ I hope not.


----------



## compsciguy78

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

A good analogy of trading Kwame for Caron is this:


You are in a foreign country and all you have is American dollars. This country doesn't take American dollars. This means you need the local currency to do any kind of business. You also know if you trade with the local peasant you will might lose money in the exchange, but you do it anyways because American dollars do you no good here.


We have Caron(American dollars) and he does us little or no good on the present team. We trade him for the currency we need(big, young, athletic, potential) and do business accordingly.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

LOL, the Wizards don't want Brown back, and he is a FA that can leave for nothing. Butler is coming off a 18 game stretch of averaging 23 points a game and Brown is coming off a dismissal from the team. Yet the Wizards have the balls to ask for a first and Mitch has the stupidity to probably give it to them. If this deal goes down I'm in the Fire Mitch crowd.


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

My analogy:

There are 2 cars behind 2 doors. 

Behind door #1 is a Honda Accord in plain sight. It's a nice and reliable car, it'll get you from point A to point B, but its nothing flashy. Just another car that'll get you around.

Behind door #2 is the mystery car. It can either be a 81 Datsun or a 05 Lamborghini. If you take the gamble for door #2, youre either gonna get an 81 Datsun that will stop working on you and break down, or you're going to get a Lamborghini that'll just make you go whoa and it'll work like a beauty.

So basically, Im bored out of my mind and sorry for this stupid analogy. :biggrin:


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

LOL, these analogies are golden. This board is entertaining tonight.


----------



## Unique

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> LOL, the Wizards don't want Brown back, and he is a FA that can leave for nothing. Butler is coming off a 18 game stretch of averaging 23 points a game and Brown is coming off a dismissal from the team. Yet the Wizards have the balls to ask for a first and Mitch has the stupidity to probably give it to them. If this deal goes down I'm in the Fire Mitch crowd.


dude come on this is good 4 the lakers!!! trust me


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

I see it this way... you are in a clothing store with no pants. Since you have no pants you have no wallet, and you can't buy the pants you need to clothe yourself. However, you are wearing a pair of Versace sunglasses and the clerk agrees to exchange them for a pair of wall-mart brand pants. The Versace shades are worth more than the wall-mart pants but you can't continue to walk around without pants and they have the potential to come in style like the way faded and torn jeans did at times. The pants had a DUI in the past and they were fired by their team, and you will also have to give up a 1st rounder with the sunglasses to get them.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Lakermike05 said:


> dude come on this is good 4 the lakers!!! trust me



can i borrow your magic ball, i want the numbers to the lotto tomorrow night


----------



## Ownerofpueblo

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

If I'm the wizards, I think it's pretty sweet to trade a nonfactor from our playoff run for a 20 point threat. 

Seriously though, this makes good sense from a laker standpoint. Every team (that wasn't the Lakers, when they had Shaq) has to gamble on big men. Remember Seattle's three headed center from a while back, and Sacramento now has three overpaid underwhelming PFs, etc, etc. Even the wizards have etan thomas not producing to his big contract. Normals teams go through this. This is a newer feeling for Laker fans, having had Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq and so on. 

And I think a first rounder (from the lakers) is fair. Kwame is a rarity. Caron is a common type of player.


----------



## Cap

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



> I see it this way... you are in a clothing store with no pants.


I stopped reading after this. :uhoh:


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Come on Jamel, pants can't drive!


----------



## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> I see it this way... you are in a clothing store with no pants.



why not steal somepants? seems like the much more logical thing to do


----------



## LA68

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Right now the Lakers don't have pants,shirt,glasses or a proven big man. 

This is the only way we can have a chance at a quality Center. Shaq wanted too much at too old an age, we can't get FA's because of the cap, and there aren't any! Nobody will trade the Lakers a good center so they have to grow their own. 

Let's just consider Kwame was at G'town instead of the Wizards. He would be getting out of college about now. Why not take the chance. The Lakers have never been conservative. Van Exel, Divac and others were chances that paid off, Benoit Benjamin did not. 

We don't just want 50 wins, we want The Ring! It will take years to get it but, I would rather wait for possible greatness than to sit in mediocrity. Two bigs and Kobe , that is a good start.


----------



## Cap

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

FYI, here are some indicators that this trade has legs:

1) Peter Vescey reported this initially last week. 

2) David Aldridge confirmed the story with more detail yesterday (much more reliable then Vescey). 

3) Kupchak said several months ago that they would be looking at acquiring former high lottery picks that didn't work out for their teams (Kwame would fit that description to a tee).

And the biggest clue of all...

4) Phil Jackson said during a recent speaking appearance two days ago (in Santa Barbara, UCSB campus) that one of the players the Lakers were pursuing was Kwame Brown (he mentioned Ray Allen too, among others). And then went on to say they would be trying to acquire an "impact big man" too. 

As long as the Lakers don't give up anything more than Caron, I'd do the deal. It's risky, but who else are the Lakers going to get that has any athleticism/quickness/size/youth to defend the paint? Boozer? No, he doesn't do those things (though he does everything else), and he's not available anyway most likely. SAR? He's not very good anyway, and like Boozer doesn't do those things. Swift? He kind of does those things, but is way out of the Lakers' price range. Ratliff? He's a 32 year old 5 that can only block shots, he doesn't do anything else the Lakers need in a PF (including rebounding or scoring inside). 

Basically, unless the Lakers can get Magloire (who's a 5 anyway, not a 4), Kwame looks to be their only choice. I shiver thinking the Lakers will be banking on Kwame to become something. Let's hope Jackson earns his $30M.


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

We need BallScientist in this thread now! 



He has awesome analogies


----------



## Brian34Cook

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

The trade might have legs, but do the leg's look good in pants?


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> I see it this way... you are in a clothing store with no pants. Since you have no pants you have no wallet, and you can't buy the pants you need to clothe yourself. However, you are wearing a pair of Versace sunglasses and the clerk agrees to exchange them for a pair of wall-mart brand pants. The Versace shades are worth more than the wall-mart pants but you can't continue to walk around without pants and they have the potential to come in style like the way faded and torn jeans did at times. The pants had a DUI in the past and they were fired by their team, and you will also have to give up a 1st rounder with the sunglasses to get them.


lmao


----------



## Darth Bryant

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

True dat.. Its sad when were trading a small forward thats 6'7 and in his short three year span in the NBA averages more rebounds than all of brown years except for one, and the guy is a 6'11 PF... I mean come on.. That in itself makes me want to toss my cookies...

I know Caron has to go, it hurts me because I love the kids spirit and I think he could be a great slasher.. But we need bigs. He is are only chip. Fine, but don't ruin it by trading for a disaster like Brown. I mean come on, the guy doesn't even have a good free throw percentage.. He is utterly worthless...

Butler, a 82 percent free throw shooter. Averages 8.5 RPG in his career average. Has a better health record than brown in terms of missed games due to injury... Hell, I'd rather throw Caron even at his pathetic undersized body into the PF position over that over paid loser Brown. At least Caron has heart and would probably do better than Brown even if he is short.

I'm sorry, this better be a smoke screen or I'll never defend Mitch again... 


uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:


----------



## Brian34Cook

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Lakers considering trade for Wizards Brown

The Lakers have had preliminary talks with the Washington Wizards about a possible trade involving Caron Butler and former No. 1 overall pick Kwame Brown, team and league sources confirmed Tuesday.

Such a deal, however, was just one of several scenarios the Lakers have discussed, according to a source. The Wizards, in addition, reportedly have been contacted by seven teams about Brown, including the New York Knicks and Indiana Pacers.

And Butler, who averaged 21.9 points with Lamar Odom out at the end of last season, is frequent fodder for trade speculation. He will be a free agent after the 2005-06 season and is one of four small forwards already under contract to the Lakers.

"We don't comment on rumors or speculation,' Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said. The Butler-for-Brown deal was first reported Tuesday by the Philadelphia Inquirer.

As the first high school player ever drafted No. 1 overall, Brown's career reached its nadir in May, when he skipped two workouts and was suspended for the remainder of the season. The Wizards went on to win their first playoff series in 23 years without him.

Although Brown averaged only 7.7 points and 5.5 rebounds during four trying seasons with the Wizards, the Lakers are in need of frontcourt help and share the belief of many around the NBA that Brown could blossom as a player once he leaves Washington.

The Lakers have decisions to make about exercising an option to bring back 37-year-old center Vlade Divac as well as taking advantage of a luxury-tax amnesty provision to the new collective bargaining agreement that would allow them to waive forward Brian Grant.

That could leave the Lakers with Chris Mihm, Slava Medvedenko, Brian Cook, Ronny Turiaf and 17- year-old rookie Andrew Bynum as the only big men on their roster heading into next season.

[More in URL]


----------



## IV

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

*DC radio is reporting the deal between the Wiz and Lakers is Kwame for Caron and another player plus a possible first round pick. I was hoping I heard that wrong, are the Lakers really offering Butler, another player, and a first rounder for Kwame 'the swame' Brown? Isn't that a bit much, or does this factor into clearing up space for future additions? *


:gopray:


----------



## Lynx

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Why is Kwame Brown a _fake_ lottery ticket? That's implying that there is a 0.00% chance of him ever being as good as Caron Butler. That's pretty bold, especially considering Butler wouldn't even start for 25 of the 30 teams in the league.
> 
> A better analogy would be this. Kwame for Butler is like taking a hundred dollars and spending it on 20 lottery tickets at 5 dollars a piece. These are the type of lottery tickets where you can win double or triple, or like 10x your original money back, or you can lose. So you can end up turning 100 dollars into 1000 dollars, or 500, or 200, or break even, or if you're unlucky, lose money.


I would give up any combination of scrubs from last years team to get Kwame.

By scrubs I mean anyone not named Kobe, Lamar, or Caron... ok and Mihm too.

So if they want Cook, Sasha, Divac, Atkins, Slava, etc.....they can have them. 
They can have them all.


----------



## el_Diablo

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

kwame in 2003/4, as a 21/22 old:

30.3 MPG - 10.9 PPG - 7.4 RPG - 1.5 APG - 0.7 BPG - 1.89 TPG - .489 FG% - .683 FT%

last season wasn't really good, but what I've heard, he really wasn't part of their offense and thus had problems... but judging by the 2003/4 season, he clearly has potential and isn't that line already better than what any of your bigs did last season?


----------



## JerryWest

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

I think Turiaf could average those numbers. He'd probably shoot a lower percentage and have around 8 or 7 points if given same minutes but I wouldn't count him out on getting more rebounds and blocks than Kwame.

I am not fan of Kwame, mainly because he shows zero effort. You can't teach effort. Players don't suddenly get motivated.

Yeah he has talent, and can drive to the hoop well for a big man w/ a good body, but that's it.


----------



## tatahbenitez

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



KennethTo said:


> Yeah he has talent, and can drive to the hoop well for a big man w/ a good body, but that's it.


That's it? What the heck are The Lakers thinking? A big man with talent, that can drive to the basket and has a good body. The Lakers should laugh at Washington and come back with a counter offer of Butler for Brown, Jameson, and a future #1....  

Ok, now let's get back to reality.

Though The Lakers drafted 2 big men in the draft, I wouldn't be too comfortable with a 17 yr old high school kid and a rookie on my front line. Besides Bynum is not going to contribute greatly for the next few years and although I like Turiaf, he is still unproven and has less upside than Kwame.
The Lakers should go through with this trade (if it actually is on the table). Then they would have a big man without spending any of their MLE money and can use it to get their starting point guard.


----------



## JerryWest

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

what use is having a powerful body if he never plays in the post? Offensively, his style is pretty much like a SF.


----------



## tatahbenitez

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



KennethTo said:


> what use is having a powerful body if he never plays in the post? Offensively, his style is pretty much like a SF.


I've seen Kwame play a few times and I don't think he plays like a SF. I don't see him constantly roaming the perimeter, facing the basket and taking 18 ft jump shots. Kwame just needs to be more aggessive on the low post, with his back to the basket. Besides, the triangle is not going to let him do that too often.

I really hope this trade goes through. I am not a big Kobe fan (in fact I despise him), but I still love The Lakers and this trade should be a step in the right direction. If The Lakers keep Caron, all I see is the same problems as last season. To many slashers and SF's, and not enough inside presence to keep the other team from dominating the inside.


----------



## JerryWest

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Kwame is good defender, and that's pretty much all I expect from him, plus a couple drives to the hoop. I'm not saying he's garbage or anything, but he is a severe headcase. I'm not completely against it, but I wouldn't be crying if we didn't get the guy either...


----------



## JerryWest

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



tatahbenitez said:


> I've seen Kwame play a few times and I don't think he plays like a SF. I don't see him constantly roaming the perimeter, facing the basket and taking 18 ft jump shots. Kwame just needs to be more aggessive on the low post, with his back to the basket. Besides, the triangle is not going to let him do that too often.
> 
> I really hope this trade goes through. I am not a big Kobe fan (in fact I despise him), but I still love The Lakers and this trade should be a step in the right direction. If The Lakers keep Caron, all I see is the same problems as last season. To many slashers and SF's, and not enough inside presence to keep the other team from dominating the inside.


He doesn't take jump shots but he rarely takes position in the low post at the same time. He usually sits outside in midrange. If he gets the ball, he'll try run by a slower PF and dunk or layup. I haven't seen any back to basket moves from him personally.


----------



## IV

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Kwame has alot of talent, but I think expectations crushed him in Washington. He is mostly a defender, but he does play from the post and with his back to the basket. Yes, he is OC most of the time, but with the right guidance, his skill/potential could mature into a very nice player.


----------



## jstempi

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> LOL, the Wizards don't want Brown back, and he is a FA that can leave for nothing. Butler is coming off a 18 game stretch of averaging 23 points a game and Brown is coming off a dismissal from the team.


This is why I think the deal better have something more in it for the Lakers. Washington loses a problem player they don’t want anyway, get a decent SF to fill a key need for them, they have to eat the cap space of Brown’s contract for one year, but the get cap relief after that with a Laker expiring contract to re-sign Butler. The Lakers take a gamble but get a serviceable big man that, worst case scenario, is at least as good as any other PF on their roster and as good of a C as Mihm. Straight up Butler for Brown I think is a bit favorable to Washington considering the risk, but it wouldn’t be the worst trade…however, I think the Lakers should try to get a first rounder out of em, especially since the Lakers have to through in an expiring contract and are giving up the most in the deal. I would even be okay if the deal was Kwame and a first for Butler, Vlade and a second rounder. Additionally, only expiring contracts of unserviceable players should be considered which means Vlade, since he’d just retire and come back to coach or opt out/ask for a buyout and come back to play for the minimum, or Slava, who I think is not serviceable. At worst, id be okay if the Lakers could only pull off a Kwame and a second for Butler and Vlade/Slava. If Washington wants anything more or wants to give up less, no deal.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



IV said:


> *DC radio is reporting the deal between the Wiz and Lakers is Kwame for Caron and another player plus a possible first round pick. I was hoping I heard that wrong, are the Lakers really offering Butler, another player, and a first rounder for Kwame 'the swame' Brown? Isn't that a bit much, or does this factor into clearing up space for future additions? *
> 
> 
> :gopray:




WHAT THE HELL???? 

Mitch will be shot by every police officer, gang member and even gun shop owner if he did that


----------



## H.O.V.A.

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

If I were a Laker fan, I'd be all over this trade. It makes perfect sense.


----------



## Juan

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

No way would I give up a future 1st rounder and Caron. I want Kwame too, but not for that much. Give Caron and Slava but nothing else, Caron is proven, Kwame is not.


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Mitch is truly an IDIOT


----------



## Tyrellaphonte

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

if we adda a playerr and a pick, then we should get something else in return


----------



## JYD

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

I would not at all be opposed to this deal. We would free up more time for Jumaine Jones (7.1 PPG last year) and Devean George (7.3 PPG last year) and add a quality big. It's just something that has to be done. We have to move Lamar to 3 and this will save our MLE for Daniels.


----------



## Jaj

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

It's Caron+Atkins probably since that makes the salaries work perfectly, plus Atkins doesn't seem like he's in Phil Jackson's plans even as a backup. That's fine with me.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Update from LA Times 

_The main sticking point in the Laker trade is negotiation of the length of Brown's contract. The Lakers offered only two guaranteed years so they could stay on track for their long-range goal of getting under the salary cap by the summer of 2007, when Amare Stoudemire and Yao Ming could become unrestricted free agents.

Brown's representatives wanted a guaranteed third year, a potential deal-breaker, while the Lakers had offered only a team option for the third year._

We're going to get Brown and only want him signed to a 2-year guaranteed deal? Why the heck would Kwame agree to that? If we're going to do this thing, we can't be worried about cap room for 2007, we have to sign Kwame to a long-term deal. I mean, we're not going to get Yao or Amare anyway.


----------



## Jaj

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

That's absolutely true. Once this trade is down our future depends on Bynum and Brown becoming a dynamic post duo one day. We're going to have some cap room probably but not enough for a FA like Amare or Yao. But why would we sign Yao when we're investing our future in Bynum anyway. Amare would be great but obviously we can't offer the max and the Suns can. So what's the point? Being under the cap isn't that big of a deal in basketball. Most great teams aren't. It's not like football so give Kwame the deal, send Atkins over and let's make this happen. Buyout Vlade, sign him and have him work with Bynum as he's said he's looking forward to it. Sign Daniels or Earl Watson to the MLE and we're done. The future is set and in about a year or two hopefully Mihm will be a decent trading chip once Bynum hopefully comes along.

If the deal doesn't go through than maybe we should look at a three way trade to acquire Drew Gooden from the Cavs.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jaj said:


> That's absolutely true. Once this trade is down our future depends on Bynum and Brown becoming a dynamic post duo one day. We're going to have some cap room probably but not enough for a FA like Amare or Yao. But why would we sign Yao when we're investing our future in Bynum anyway. Amare would be great but obviously we can't offer the max and the Suns can. So what's the point? Being under the cap isn't that big of a deal in basketball. Most great teams aren't. It's not like football so give Kwame the deal, send Atkins over and let's make this happen. Buyout Vlade, sign him and have him work with Bynum as he's said he's looking forward to it. Sign Daniels or Earl Watson to the MLE and we're done. The future is set and in about a year or two hopefully Mihm will be a decent trading chip once Bynum hopefully comes along.
> 
> If the deal doesn't go through than maybe we should look at a three way trade to acquire Drew Gooden from the Cavs.


Atkins? Heck no! Send over Slava or George. Chucky is our only PG right now (I'm not even counting Sasha until he shows us something), we can't just assume we're going to get Antonio Daniels.

And as for Drew Gooden...yuck. We don't need a scorer.


----------



## Jaj

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Hell yes I'd send over Atkins. You can always get a PG like Lue for the LLE. Atkins has no real value except as a shooter. I'd be happy if we sent George+Atkins+Butler, but then we'd have to take on another small contract.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jaj said:


> Hell yes I'd send over Atkins. You can always get a PG like Lue for the LLE. Atkins has no real value except as a shooter. I'd be happy if we sent George+Atkins+Butler, but then we'd have to take on another small contract.


If you sent over George, Atkins and Butler, you would be a terrible GM. First of all, you'd be sending over way too much for not enough in return. The depth of the team would take a huge hit. Second, it would mean you'd be signing Kwame Brown to a $10M deal. So, uhhh, yeah...let's leave the GMing responsibilities to Kupcake next time buddy! :clap:


----------



## jstempi

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jaj said:


> It's Caron+Atkins probably since that makes the salaries work perfectly, plus Atkins doesn't seem like he's in Phil Jackson's plans even as a backup. That's fine with me.


No way. Atkins has more value than a throw in to match salaries. Thats why I say throw in Vlade or Slava (see my previous post). If Atkins isnt in our plans, trade him for some asset outside of this trade. He sucks on defense, but he's worth more than throw in. Most people on this board have more GM skills than Mitch, but Jaj...you do not.


----------



## Jaj

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Vlade's buyout should be done by the Laker this year not traded to another team. Atkins takes up a roster spot. George does as well but Jackson probably has faith left in him. Also do your really think they want George over Atkins? I think it's you that lacks the GM skills, and to all of you who think they could do a better job than Mitch.... Why aren't you the Lakers GM?

Hell yes I'd try to find someway of getting rid of Atkins and George. They take up roster spots simply said. Maybe the best you could get for Atkins is a 2nd. George I can't think of anybody wanting him unless for injury purposes. Why would I want to send all of them? Because the Wizards don't have all that many players under contract for next season. We have far too many and if they can send us over a pick or Jarvis Hayes then that would only help the Lakers.


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jaj said:


> Vlade's buyout should be done by the Laker this year not traded to another team. Atkins takes up a roster spot. George does as well but Jackson probably has faith left in him. Also do your really think they want George over Atkins? I think it's you that lacks the GM skills, and to all of you who think they could do a better job than Mitch.... Why aren't you the Lakers GM?
> 
> Hell yes I'd try to find someway of getting rid of Atkins and George. They take up roster spots simply said. Maybe the best you could get for Atkins is a 2nd. George I can't think of anybody wanting him unless for injury purposes. Why would I want to send all of them? Because the Wizards don't have all that many players under contract for next season. We have far too many and if they can send us over a pick or Jarvis Hayes then that would only help the Lakers.


dude devean george does nothing for this team...he cant even play offense...just get rid of him...for the love of god


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## Jaj

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Do you think the Wizards really want Devean George? They want something half valuable in Atkins. Make them take both of them and give us something in return on top of the Brown-Butler trade. Don't give up Divac's buyout. Divac is most likely a Laker next season. Your not opening up roster space if you trade him.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Jaj said:


> Do you think the Wizards really want Devean George? They want something half valuable in Atkins. Make them take both of them and give us something in return on top of the Brown-Butler trade. Don't give up Divac's buyout. Divac is most likely a Laker next season. Your not opening up roster space if you trade him.



do we care? we are adding a filler, we arent trying to make them happy, we should get something more in return, this isnt about if the Wizards want Nacho Cheesier or not


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## Sean

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

some comments from Wizards fans...



Lakers1 said:


> http://forums.espn.go.com/espn/thread?forumID=700&threadID=2047192&lastPostID=11750712
> 
> 
> http://forums.espn.go.com/espn/thread?forumID=700&threadID=2047615&lastPostID=11750233
> 
> http://forums.espn.go.com/espn/thread?forumID=700&threadID=2046255&lastPostID=11729968
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUPERBALLMAN	Posted: Jul 13, 2005 12:32 PM	Quote
> Posts: 334
> in the last 60 days
> 
> 
> Wait until you see the other team on a fast break, and Kwame is slowly jogging up court... it's really fun to see.
> 
> Or when he is jogging up court on offense, and your PG wants to pass it to him, but Kwame's not looking...
> 
> Or when he does get the ball and has this look on his face like he is at Walmart staring at an isle full of sponges and can't decide which one he wants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would think that after four years he would show some signs of a pulse but he looks like someone who is content to pick up a paycheck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THEY MADE THIS SHIRT
> 
> 
> check out wat theymade for us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qoutes from wiz fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FROM A NEW YORK FANS WE DONT WANT NO KWAME BROWN HES A BUST A KID THAT DOESNT LIKE THE BIG STAGE . I WENT TO THE GARDEN TO WATCH A GAME BETWEEN THE KNICKS AND WIZARDS AND HE WAS LIKE 0FOR8 HE IS GARBAGE I WOULDNT TRADE OUR BALL BOY FOR HIM. HES BEEN IN THE LEAUGE FOR A COUPLE YEARS HES JUST SCARED PRETTY MUCH . QRICH IS A TALENT AND WITH MARBS HELL BE ALOT BETTER HELL GO TO THE BASKET ALOT MORE HES THE REAL DEAL KNICKS ARE GETTING HIM AT HIS PEAK . SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT Q BUT HE HAS ALOT MORE SKILLS THEN BROWN LOL I WOULD RATHER TRADE FOR SWIFT. I WOULDNT EVEN GIVE UP SWEETNEY FOR BROWN HE JUST PLAN OUT SUCKS SORRY WASHINGTON NOTHING PERSONAL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never thought Id feel sorry for Laker fans but if this trade happens is actually would.
> 
> Brown is trash, he is nothing like Jermaine O'Niel, O'Niel never got minutes his first 4 years, as soon as he was given PT he produced and developed every season. Brown has gotten a TON of PT and in the process proven: he has no game farther than 5 feet out, he cant rebound, he cant block, he cant play defense and doughnuts have more center in them than he does.
> 
> And I REALLY hope it isnt true that the only holdup is so you guys will have room to put all your eggs in one basket for Amare or Yao in '07. Amare n the Suns are already hammering out the fine points of his extention, itll be signed before the summer is out, 99% chance Yao doesnt go anywhere either.
> 
> I know Butler doesnt really have a place in LA but you could find a MUCH better deal than for a headcase, injury prone loser that at his best will give you 11-7.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Locke

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

Mitch needs to let go of this whole "cap room in 2007" thing. If the purpose is to pursue Yao Ming or Amare Stoudemire then the effort will be in vain, because those two will be locked up with max extensions well before they even get the chance to test any free agent waters. And the question he has to ask himself is are the free agents who _will_ be available in 2007 worth passing up on players that could be acquired right now or in the near future because their contracts go longer than 2 years?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



HKF said:


> Honestly for as selfish as people call Kobe, I think he'd make Kwame Brown a better player than Arenas and Hughes did. Kwame has talent and personally Small Forwards like Butler are a dime a dozen. I mean's 25 years old now. How much better is he going to get. He's a good starter, but nothing special. I say take a chance and see what happens. I remember the last two bigs who got traded out of Washington turning their careers around as well (Webber and Rasheed).


Anything that reduces the minutes played by Chris Mihm is a positive. Really, Butler's nice, a very solid wingman, but a four star talent he isn't. Brown is a good fit for the Lakers. He isn't the key to a title, but it's a better idea than bringing back Luke Walton. :biggrin:


----------



## Unique

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

if the trade does go through ..will it be announced right away or after the 22ns


----------



## afireinside

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

As a Wizards fan and a extreme Kwame supporter, I have to admit that this deal is sort of outrageous. 

Caron Butler + Another Player + 1st Round Pick for Kwame Brown?

I believe in Kwame's potential. I think if he tried and got enough PT, he could blossom into a player much like Jermaine O'Neal. He has a game similar to JO, but not as polished. The only basketball aspects Kwame needs to work on a lot is rebounding and defense. If Kwame focused on those aspects and kept on polishing his already decent skills then there is no doubt in my mind he will become a steady 20/10 forward. 

BUT, right now he has *no* motivation to get better. If he was traded I think that would change. But I don't think the Lakers organization is ready to take that risk. That's why they don't want to give him the three year deal. They think if he keeps playing his mediocre benchplaying ways, then they can dump him.

Butler is a decent SF right now with the skills to be a solid starter (already is pretty much). To me, if a trade was made for Butler straight up for Kwame I would say good deal. If the Lakers added a player like Chucky Atkins I'd laugh and say the Lakers aren't heading in a good direction. If the Lakers added another play AND a first round pick then I'd would have a party on the Wizard's board with free Coor's Lights to everyone.

I just don't see how this trade would benefit the Lakers more than the Wizards. It's not even close, really.

Go Wizards! :wiz:


----------



## Cap

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

You'd have a party just for a late 20's first rounder and Chucky freaking Atkins? Party away my son!


----------



## afireinside

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

We don't know the pick yet though. And for Kwame Brown? A #1 pick who has averaged 7.7 PPG and 5.5 RPG in four years? Oh, yes.


----------



## Cap

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



aftermath said:


> We don't know the pick yet though. And for Kwame Brown? A #1 pick who has averaged 7.7 PPG and 5.5 RPG in four years? Oh, yes.


Averaging his first 4 years is pointless, he wasn't any older than a teenager/early 20's. He's at least an 10/8 player with the right minutes, and I'd trade Caron for that, especially if he develops more. But he needs an attitude adjustment. Losing Atkins is addition by subtraction.


----------



## thegza

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



EHL said:


> Averaging his first 4 years is pointless, he wasn't any older than a teenager/early 20's. He's at least an 10/8 player with the right minutes, and I'd trade Caron for that, especially if he develops more. But he needs an attitude adjustment. Losing Atkins is addition by subtraction.


I agree. I may not be as strong about this trade because I am a Caron Butler fan and think that his value can sky rocket if we're patient enough to wait untill the All-Star break .. but people are making Kwame Brown to be a lot worst then he actually is. He's been given a chance to play in Washington, but at times, he showed his potential, and it was obvious that he can play in the NBA.

However, with added minutes .. I can guarantee you that he can match Chris Mihm's stats. What the problem is his attitude and willingness to work harder on his game to become more then just a fringe player. A change of scenery, playing in LA a place with such loud and passionate fans may change his thinking.

Completely agree about Atkins too.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



aftermath said:


> As a Wizards fan and a extreme Kwame supporter, I have to admit that this deal is sort of outrageous.
> 
> Caron Butler + Another Player + 1st Round Pick for Kwame Brown?
> 
> I believe in Kwame's potential. I think if he tried and got enough PT, he could blossom into a player much like Jermaine O'Neal. He has a game similar to JO, but not as polished. The only basketball aspects Kwame needs to work on a lot is rebounding and defense. If Kwame focused on those aspects and kept on polishing his already decent skills then there is no doubt in my mind he will become a steady 20/10 forward.
> 
> BUT, right now he has *no* motivation to get better. If he was traded I think that would change. But I don't think the Lakers organization is ready to take that risk. That's why they don't want to give him the three year deal. They think if he keeps playing his mediocre benchplaying ways, then they can dump him.
> 
> Butler is a decent SF right now with the skills to be a solid starter (already is pretty much). To me, if a trade was made for Butler straight up for Kwame I would say good deal. If the Lakers added a player like Chucky Atkins I'd laugh and say the Lakers aren't heading in a good direction. If the Lakers added another play AND a first round pick then I'd would have a party on the Wizard's board with free Coor's Lights to everyone.
> 
> I just don't see how this trade would benefit the Lakers more than the Wizards. It's not even close, really.
> 
> Go Wizards! :wiz:


I'll buy one for you guys from the money I get out of mugging Mitch. 

It's the WIZARDS that should be throwing in rotation caliber players and picks... not the other way around.


----------



## Ron_Artest9131

*Looks like Butler and Brown trade is going through*

It looks as if the trade is going to go through. This is a bad trade I think for the Lakers because Caron is awesome but on the other hand Kwame has a lot of potential. Tell me what you think of the trade and dont forget to sign up for my brand new Brooke Burke fan club. Stay Safe and peace


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: Looks like Butler and Brown trade is going through*

What makes you say it is going to happen for sure?


----------



## Cris

*Re: Looks like Butler and Brown trade is going through*

it cant go through until the 22nd


----------



## Unique

*Re: Looks like Butler and Brown trade is going through*



Cris said:


> it cant go through until the 22nd


yea it can...NY and PHO


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: Looks like Butler and Brown trade is going through*



Lakermike05 said:


> yea it can...NY and PHO


That didn't involve any FAs which Butler is. By the way I am merging this since it provides no new info and just seems like a ad for a Broke Burke fan club.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: Looks like Butler and Brown trade is going through*



Lakermike05 said:


> yea it can...NY and PHO


That was before the CBA expired. (June 31) The new one doesn't kick in until July 22.


----------



## onelakerfan

*Re: Looks like Butler and Brown trade is going through*

this is a *sign * and trade deal, so 22nd will be the day


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## Unique

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

once again my bad


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## Ron_Artest9131

*Re: Looks like Butler and Brown trade is going through*



Laker Freak said:


> What makes you say it is going to happen for sure?


I dont know if it is going to go through. I said it looks as if it is. That was my prediction since they are talking heavily about it. That dowsnt mean it will happen but it can


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## Damian Necronamous

*LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

LINK

*Lakers Trade:* 
Caron Butler
Chucky Atkins or Devean George

*Wizards Trade:* 
Kwame Brown 

Kwame and his agent have agreed to signed a 2-year deal with a team option on the 3rd year. I pray that it is Devean George and not Chucky Atkins. I would assume that the Wizards would want George, given that Juan Dixon may not be returning and they already have Steve Blake at backup PG. Washington really makes out well in this deal. Hopefully we can get some sort of pick in return.

At least we have added a decent big man. It will be interesting to see what Phil can do with Kwame. I'm sad to see Caron go. 

PG: Chucky Atkins...Sasha Vujacic
SG: Kobe Bryant...Von Wafer
SF: Lamar Odom...Jumaine Jones...Luke Walton
PF: Kwame Brown...Brian Grant...Ronny Turiaf...Brian Cook...Slava Medvedenko
C: Chris Mihm...Vlade Divac...Andrew Bynum

That's 15 guys, so the only other change I could see happening would be signing Antonio Daniels (or another PG) and then sending Wafer down to the D-League or even better...trading Slava!


----------



## Darth Bryant

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*

LA times says its a done deal. At least in terms of verbal agreements.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-brown14jul14,0,4465538.story?coll=la-home-sports


I think it's a painful decision. Caron wont be needed on this team next season, as much as I like him... This trade makes Odom move back to his natural position which is instantly a good thing... But I feel bad for Butler and even Kobe.. They really clicked and I wanted to see Butler grow as a player with the Lakers and become something....

Now I gotta watch him do that in washington... 

I understand why the trade was made, and I guess it makes sense.. Still sucks though...


----------



## HKF

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

Only a two year deal with a team option for Kwame huh? Sounds like a really good deal, because if he breaks out, you have his bird rights and it's not long term (when Grant's deal comes off the books).

PG - Antonio Daniels (FA?), Chucky Atkins, Sasha Vujacic
SG - Kobe Bryant, Von Wafer
SF - Lamar Odom, Jumaine Jones, Luke Walton
PF - Kwame Brown, Ronny Turiaf, Brian Cook, Slava Medvedenko
C - Chris Mihm, Andrew Bynum, Brian Grant


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

Sad to see Caron go.

But happy we got a big man!


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

Next year-

Caron- 18 ppg, 6 boards, 2 assists
Kwame- 9 ppg, 8 boards, 1 block


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



HKF said:


> Only a two year deal with a team option for Kwame huh? Sounds like a really good deal, because if he breaks out, you have his bird rights and it's not long term (when Grant's deal comes off the books).
> 
> PG - Antonio Daniels (FA?), Chucky Atkins, Sasha Vujacic
> SG - Kobe Bryant, Von Wafer
> SF - Lamar Odom, Jumaine Jones, Luke Walton
> PF - Kwame Brown, Ronny Turiaf, Brian Cook, Slava Medvedenko
> C - Chris Mihm, Andrew Bynum, Brian Grant


Yeah, the deal makes sense from our perspective. I'm wondering why the heck Kwame has agreed to it, though.  If we can get Daniels, we have a nice looking starting lineup. 

Check out 4 of our starters...

Kobe Bryant: 6'6"
Lamar Odom: 6'10"
Kwame Brown: 6'11"
Chris Mihm: 7'0"

I expect a lot of rebounding out of this team next year.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

That really isn't a too bad a trade if it is George, but I wish it was Vlade. If it is Atkins, I will be pissed because as much as we all hate Chucky, he did average 14-4-2 and played in all 82 games.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



Jamel Irief said:


> Next year-
> 
> Caron- 18 ppg, 6 boards, 2 assists
> Kwame- 9 ppg, 8 boards, 1 block


I doubt Butler gets 18ppg with Arenas and Jamison. I'd say...

Caron Butler: 15ppg, 5rpg

If Kwame can get 12 and 8 for us, it's a good deal.


----------



## Showtime87

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



TheLegend said:


> I agree. I may not be as strong about this trade because I am a Caron Butler fan and think that his value can sky rocket if we're patient enough to wait untill the All-Star break .. but people are making Kwame Brown to be a lot worst then he actually is. He's been given a chance to play in Washington, but at times, he showed his potential, and it was obvious that he can play in the NBA.
> 
> However, with added minutes .. I can guarantee you that he can match Chris Mihm's stats. What the problem is his attitude and willingness to work harder on his game to become more then just a fringe player. A change of scenery, playing in LA a place with such loud and passionate fans may change his thinking.
> 
> Completely agree about Atkins too.


I concur, I feel much the same way about Caron and his ability/value. He's an important component for this team, but at the same time, I do see where the Lakers are going on this one. There's an obvious logjam at SF, Butler is due to make a considerable amount of money next season and frontcourt depth is an absolute necessity in the western conference. Not to mention (sorry Chris because I really like you personally) the Lakers have Chris Mihm starting at center. This is a definite area of need. 

Sadly, people who look at Brown's career to this point are essentially looking at a 19-22 year-old kid and judging him on his performance for a lackluster basketball team (until last season) who thrust him into a less than ideal situation. Think of what was expected of him from day one : He was to step into a perennially losing atmosphere with the expectations of an entire fanbase and only the most prolific scoring guard if not "best" player to ever play the game riding squarely on his shoulders. Then he gets torn about by a frustrated Jordan who expected this kid to step in and become Moses Malone overnight, not to mention the conflict of interest between Jordan and Collins as to who was actually in charge of that team - as if there was ever any question. 

I'm not big on comparing potential stars to current ones, but just for the sake of arguement - If you look strictly at Brown's numbers for the first three years of his career you couldn't say that he wasn't at the very least improving. Yes, O'Neal spent more time collecting splinters during his first four seasons, but that's because Arvydas Sabonis was in town at the time and Jermaine was nowhere near physically ready to bang around the post with a 6'10", 210 lb frame. Take a side-by-side look at each of their stats during those first four seasons and there's virtually zero discrepencies, other than for the fact that Kwame has been a better scorer than Jermaine had been at the same point in their young careers.

In O'Neal's first season in Indianapolis he posted 12.9 ppg, 9.8 reb and 2.8 blks. By this time, he had the necessary strength and motivation to begin his ascent to becoming the all-star that he is today. Brown, during his Junior NBA campaign posted very similar numbers, save for blocked shots which is a skill he has yet to develop fully. During that 04' season I seem to remember people buzzing about him and saying that he had _finally_ arrived. As if stringing healthy double-doubles together for multiple games at a time was commonplace for a young player with the expectations of an entire franchise, let alone fanbase on him constantly. But hey, no pressure though. 

I'm not necessarily defending Kwame for the indiscretions he may have had in Washington, I'm sure that I'm not even aware of them all if there were indeed numerous occasions. All I'm doing is playing devil's advocate because I'm really very tired of seeing so many people tearing this guy down, post after post after post. While I don't work for a professional NBA franchise, I'm not a scout, nor do I know the man personally, but damn - can't we give the kid a break? If nobody out there who is calling this guy a piece of garbage or saying he's got an attitude problem never made a mistake during their youth -then by all means cast all stones you want. Just keep in mind, it could quite possibly be just a bit overwhelming for a 19 year-old manchild from Charleston, SC who grew up in a modest family setting to have multi-millions bestowed on him and the veritable world at his doorstep literally overnight.

Could he be "the next" .......? Who knows for sure? But if the Lakers are going this hard after a guy like Kwame and they're willing to trade a player the caliber of a Caron Butler, maybe there's something they see that the pedestrian fan of the game does not. Mitch Kupchak didn't post HOF numbers and he surely doesn't have the most charisma, but he's not an idiot. Nor is the HOF coach who is back in town, who also has some connection to the afore-mentioned guard who was fond enough of Brown's ability to make him the number one overall selection. 

It might be too much to pay for Brown right now, even ultimately. But as a quick example of a similar deal : does anybody remember when the Lakers traded Norm Nixon for Byron Scott? Nixon was very valuable to that Lakers squad, not any less than Caron is today. Everybody was scratching their heads at why the team would essentially "give away" a player like Nixon for an unproven commodity like Scott. That deal was ultimately looked upon favorably by a fairly majority of Lakers fans. My point is, we can never judge a trade like this until at least three to four seasons down the road, so if it does happen I guess the only thing to say is that time will tell. Just welcome the guy to LA, give him a chance to grow and we just might see him blossom.

BTW - Bitter east-coast fans are going to take any opportunity they can to take weak shots at the Lakers, LA, or anything remotely having to do with either. Take it with a grain of salt. The best thing they have after all these years is still BEAT LA, BEAT LA, BEAT LA!!! Impressive folks. 

Jealousy can be a very ugly thing.... :banana:


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



Laker Freak said:


> That really isn't a too bad a trade if it is George, but I wish it was Vlade. If it is Atkins, I will be pissed because as much as we all hate Chucky, he did average 14-4-2 and played in all 82 games.


He'll be a good backup no doubt about it. That's where he excels in this league. His 3 ball is good too.

Im really excited about this season now, I think Kwame will be doing 12/8 this year. Also Lamar finally playing the 3 is great!

I will be rooting for Caron though, he's still one of my top 5 fav. players.


----------



## Brian34Cook

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

Well I'm not surprised.. Sad to see Caron go but if this happens, well we'll just see what Kwame can do 

HOF - You should know by now what my thoughts are on Deron.. Add me


----------



## Cap

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

The more I've thought about this trade, the more I've started to grow on Kwame. Not that I don't have my doubts; I wouldn't be the least surprised if this guy continues to be a heartless bust. That said, I still think he'll be more valuable than Caron to this team, because the Lakers need bulk, defense, and athleticism up front so damn badly it's not even funny. 

I'm glad the Lakers didn't throw in a pick, and am especially glad they only guaranteed Kwame another two years. That leaves the 2007 cap space dream alive (and it is somewhat of a dream, but who knows...), and it's insurance in case Kwame completely tanks with the Lakers, meaning they can just dump his sorry butt.

Prove me wrong Kwame, grow a pair. Prove me wrong Phil, develop young talent. 



Jamel Irief said:


> Next year-
> 
> Caron- 18 ppg, 6 boards, 2 assists
> Kwame- 9 ppg, 8 boards, 1 block


If Kwame plays good post defense (not even generally great defense, but just good post defense), then that's well worth Caron's numbers.

Though, I'd be disappointed if Kwame only scored 9 ppg, unless he's playing fewer than 30 mpg.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



Damian Necronamous said:


> I doubt Butler gets 18ppg with Arenas and Jamison. I'd say...
> 
> Caron Butler: 15ppg, 5rpg
> 
> If Kwame can get 12 and 8 for us, it's a good deal.


Arenas and Jamison are two players... and the Wiz attempted the most shots in the east. Who else will score? Haywood? Jefferies? Peeler?

Butler 18 ppg and 6 rpg, Jamison 21 ppg, Arenas 27 ppg.

I just have a feeling Kwame is Isiah Rider part 2 with Phil.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

As EHL said, we will not be trading Miami's first round pick.

_The Lakers will not be parting with the 2006 first-round pick they received from the Miami Heat in the Shaquille O'Neal trade last July._


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



Jamel Irief said:


> Arenas and Jamison are two players... and the Wiz attempted the most shots in the east. Who else will score? Haywood? Jefferies? Peeler?
> 
> Butler 18 ppg and 6 rpg, Jamison 21 ppg, Arenas 27 ppg.


I'm thinking they'll be getting Donyell Marshall or Shareef Abdur-Rahim at PF. More likely Marshall.


----------



## Cap

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

Actually Damien, 18 ppg for Butler on the Wizards is verly possible, unless they add another shoot-first player. It's Areanas-Jamison-Butler and that's it right now.


----------



## HKF

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

It doesn't matter. Washington is still going to play their playground style of basketball in the East with the same results, only difference is the East is better, so they won't even make the 2nd round.

If Kwame gives the team an interior presence defensively and helps on the boards, even better. Remember what I wrote in the Kwame thread. Kwame has no pressure. Most (if not all) think he's a bust already, so if he sucks, he proves nothing. If he breaks out, the Lakers come out smelling like roses (Kobe, Phil, Odom, Kupchak). This is a win-win for the Lakers.

Butler isn't that special, I mean c'mon.


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



HKF said:


> PG - Antonio Daniels (FA?), Chucky Atkins, Sasha Vujacic
> SG - Kobe Bryant, Von Wafer
> SF - Lamar Odom, Jumaine Jones, Luke Walton
> PF - Kwame Brown, Ronny Turiaf, Brian Cook, Slava Medvedenko
> C - Chris Mihm, Andrew Bynum, Brian Grant


Maybe its just me, but I can see this squad winning 50+ games in the West. The roster if finally balanced out and even the second unit looks decent. If Vlade can give a decent 10-12 minutes a night, it'll be a lot better with his passing out the post.

All that's left to do now is sign Antonio Daniels.

Question:
If Brian Grant isn't cut this offseason, would he still be able to get cut next offseason?


----------



## Cap

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

Yeah, if Daniels indeed signs with the Lakers, I love the chances that squad has a notching 50 wins. I'll take my chanes with Daniels/Kobe/Odom/Kwame/Mihm coached by Phil Jackson. Let's just hope Bynum develops in 2-4 years and Kwame isn't a complete bust.


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

god mitch...if it had to be done it had to be done.....


..HOF....clan me....please....illinifan=me


----------



## HKF

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



HallOfFamer said:


> Question:
> If Brian Grant isn't cut this offseason, would he still be able to get cut next offseason?


Yes, he can. The amnesty clause is usuable as long as you're over the luxury tax threshold. So the Lakers could use it before the 2006-07 season.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

Why do we want Grant cut? It doesn't change the cap. Only Buss benefits from the Lakers cutting Grant.


----------



## Locke

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Gotta agree with EHL and HKF. This Kwame thing has started to grow on me too. I like Butler but what he does can be easily duplicated and surpassed easily by Odom playing the 3 spot. Just to get the chance at a player with KB's (KB #2) ability and potential warrants trading a guy like Butler. Count me in as a supporter of this move, especially since the Lakers aren't giving up a draft pick and have an option on the 3rd year of Brown's contract.


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



Jamel Irief said:


> Why do we want Grant cut? It doesn't change the cap. Only Buss benefits from the Lakers cutting Grant.


I was thinking with 14mil off the books, we would be able to sign someone. But I looked at HoopsHype salaries, and we'll still be over the cap, even if the cap is set at 50 mil. Looks like the MLE is the only way to sign someone.


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



HallOfFamer said:


> I was thinking with 14mil off the books, we would be able to sign someone. But I looked at HoopsHype salaries, and we'll still be over the cap, even if the cap is set at 50 mil. Looks like the MLE is the only way to sign someone.


The $$$ doesn't come off the books. Buss just wouldn't have to pay the luxury tax on it.


----------



## HallOfFamer

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



AJ Prus said:


> The $$$ doesn't come off the books. Buss just wouldn't have to pay the luxury tax on it.


Damn, I was under the assumption the entire time that it does. I still read some articles that theyre gonna cut him though, I have no idea why they would do that now? He can still produce.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Last offseason a Laker's dynasty died...

...this offseason, another was born.

Kobe and Odom with the new twin towers? Good times ahead for Laker fans. However, I would sign Sarunas over Antonio Daniels if it was all possible. Daniels has had his position taken by young, inexperienced PGs twice and had proven that he is not a starting NBA PG. STAY AWAY!!!


----------



## LA68

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*

I just think that Kwame got caught up in Jordan's ego. We all know Jordan hates failure and the Kwame pick was one. Once you are in that doghouse it is hard to get out of it. Plus, they never gave him a vet big man for him to relate to. I mean a good one like Yao has Mutombo and Ewing. 

With Kwame and Bynum around, it may be a good idea to keep Grant around to show the youngsters. Portland apparently wants him for the same reason. 

I am sure Kwame and Bynum can play as good and Wennington and Cartwright :biggrin:


----------



## LA68

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



MemphisX said:


> Last offseason a Laker's dynasty died...
> 
> ...this offseason, another was born.
> 
> Kobe and Odom with the new twin towers? Good times ahead for Laker fans. However, I would sign Sarunas over Antonio Daniels if it was all possible. Daniels has had his position taken by young, inexperienced PGs twice and had proven that he is not a starting NBA PG. STAY AWAY!!!


I have never been a fan of those tweener guards: Can't run the point, not quite a shooter. If we can get a big euro guard like Sarunas ,I say go that direction. 

PJ has enough miracles to do with the big men and no Odom for half the season.


----------



## RP McMurphy

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

It takes some fans so long to give up on busts. Even last summer, half of BBB.net still thought Jonathan Bender would be a quality player one day. Kwame Brown is the new Bender, I'm guessing he's still got two more years of not doing anything before people admit that he sucks (even though he'll be out of the starting lineup by January).

It took Mitch Kupchak two summers to destroy the Lakers franchise. With the right moves, this team could have done something next year, but they won't because their GM is Kupchak and he's trading one of the Lakers' best trade assets for Kwame Brown.

30-win seasons as far as the eye can see. Kwame Brown, what a disgrace.


----------



## IV

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



LA68 said:


> PJ has enough miracles to do with the big men and *no Odom for half the season.*


Lamar Odom is going to be out for half the season?

WHAT THE DEVIL :devil:


----------



## ralaw

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



IV said:


> Lamar Odom is going to be out for half the season?
> 
> WHAT THE DEVIL :devil:


EEEERRRRR, what? Odom out for half the season? Where's this coming from?


----------



## Lynx

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



RP McMurphy said:


> Kwame Brown, what a disgrace.


Absoultely. :banghead:


----------



## Dwyane Wade

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

yeah, the trade is actually this, Kwame Brown for Caron Butler, and either Chucky Atikins, or Devon George, its up to the wiz who they want, you all better hope Kwame becomes into a good player, b/c if not you guys lost Caron Butler a young talant that is great!


----------



## BallStateCards

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

It seems that Caron Butler is one of the most popular one year players in the history of LA...


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

This had better be George.

It would just be really dumb to trade the only decent PG on the roster. Unless, of course, we have a verbal commitment from Antonio Daniels. However, if that was so, his agent would have told someone in the media.


----------



## mediocre man

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Unless Kwame brown actully starts doing something to prove he can play in the league, the Shaq trade is looking worse and worse.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

I do have to admit that I'm looking forward to seeing if Kwame can turn it around on the Lakers.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



mediocre man said:


> Unless Kwame brown actully starts doing something to prove he can play in the league, the Shaq trade is looking worse and worse.


Here's the overall deal right now if it is indeed Chucky Atkins going to WAS  ...

Shaquille O'Neal
Gary Payton
Rick Fox
Conditional First Round Pick

FOR

Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm
Jumaine Jones
Miami's 2006 First Round Pick


----------



## jstempi

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



Jamel Irief said:


> Why do we want Grant cut? It doesn't change the cap. Only Buss benefits from the Lakers cutting Grant.


Cap remains the same but maybe with the $30 million savings in Luxury taxes Buss might be willing to spend a bit more to upgrade players instead of pocketing all the savings.


----------



## Sean

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

I don't know, I guess I'm in the minority with this one. I don't like it. I hope I'm wrong.

This had better not be the "impact" player PJ mentioned or Scottie Pippen's "secret."


----------



## IV

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



ralaw said:


> EEEERRRRR, what? Odom out for half the season? Where's this coming from?


Maybe I read his post wrong, but I thought LA68 was saying Odom will be out half the season. Can someone please clear this up so I wont be walking about tweaked out like Tyrone Biggums. Is he hurt?

and Sean what the hell is that in your avatar. Looks like a diseased rodent?


----------



## mavsman

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

I like this move by the Lakers. They just got bigger in a hurry with the draft and this move. The only problem is how soon can Bynum be ready to contribute in a real way.

Once they get thier PG taken care of the Lakers will be tough.


----------



## BallStateCards

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



IV said:


> Maybe I read his post wrong, but I thought LA68 was saying Odom will be out half the season. Can someone please clear this up so I wont be walking about tweaked out like Tyrone Biggums. Is he hurt?


I thought he had shoulder surgery, but I'm certain that he's not missing half of the season. It would have certainly merited a thread on this board, no?



> and Sean what the hell is that in your avatar. Looks like a diseased rodent?


That's the three time "Ugliest Dog in the World" champion. I saw that in the newspaper a couple weeks ago.


----------



## Drewbs

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Ok, I was against this trade, but now, I may be more in favor of it. I love Caron Butler, he is inconsistent at times, but he plays hard every night, hes passionate, and he a good player to have on a team. Players like him, coaches like him, and fans like him. Kwame Brown however, may just need a change of scenery. Just think, nothing has gone RIGHT for him his entire career. He came into the league as a kid, and spent his early seasons being Jordan's (not to mention, Doug Collin's) whipping boy. Jordan takes off, and he actually makes a progression during the 03-04 season. He plays some minutes and strings together a few good games, and has some VERY good games, especially when he gets touches. Prior to this season, some people were actually jumping off the "Kwame Brown is a bust" bandwagon. I'm still not convinced that he is a great player until he shows consistency, but I think a change of scenary might be nice for him. I actually think that Brown would be a great triangle player. He is very skilled, hes not just an athlete with no game. He can step outside and shoot, he can pass out of the post to shooters, or pass to cutters, but most importantly, he needs to get touches.


----------



## Bron_Melo_ROY

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

I love this trade for both teams. Caron Butler will help the Wizards get over Larry Hughes and Kwame Brown just needed to get out of Washington and he'll be fine. Kwame Brown is an uber-athletic freak and has the speed and quickness to blow by an bigman without a problem (a la Amare Stoudemire). I think he needed to get out of Washington and now his ship has set sail.


----------



## shobe42

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

this trade is win-win...

if Kwame Brown fills out his potential then we got a great player

--and--

if he doesn't then Kupchak will maybe be fired


our only true trade bait someone who was considered good enough by us to trade shaq for with Odom and Grant and we are trading him for one of the biggest flops in NBA history


----------



## leidout

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



IV said:


> Maybe I read his post wrong, but I thought LA68 was saying Odom will be out half the season. Can someone please clear this up so I wont be walking about tweaked out like Tyrone Biggums. Is he hurt?


hahaha.... take it from a clipper fan, odom will find a way to miss half the season, via the ganja, depression, or legit injuries.

the lakers have just added to their mess with kwame brown. now you've got *three* players who can't play without the ball constantly in their hands (kobe, odom, kwame) and the same three are head cases in their own way.

not to mention bynum won't do a thing for probably three years... i see a lot of the wrong kinda triangles in phil jackson's future, but if he works this mess out give him the coach of the year for sure.


----------



## Darth Bryant

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



IV said:


> Lamar Odom is going to be out for half the season?
> 
> WHAT THE DEVIL :devil:



Yeah, link. Thats bs.

He will be there for summer camp.


----------



## HKF

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

I'm going to take RP McMurphy bet and I think Kobe makes Kwame a better player, bottom line.


----------



## Cris

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to trade*



HallOfFamer said:


> Damn, I was under the assumption the entire time that it does. I still read some articles that theyre gonna cut him though, I have no idea why they would do that now? He can still produce.



the only reason to cut him is if Buss wants to save 30 million, otherwise he can hold on to him and has his expiring contract meansomething come Feb.


----------



## 22ryno

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

This is one of those trades that could be very big or a bust. Kwame has great potential(he wasn't the number 1 pick for no reason). Phil Jackson is good at getting players to reach their potential. Hopefully this is the case with Kwame.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Well now that it's done, I'll just say it's a good move. Not because I think there is a great chance that Kwame will be great, but at worst it seems like a lateral move, because Butler isn't a difference maker at all. If Kwame gives the Lakers 30 solid minutes a night, he'll be more valuable than Butler could have been. Kwame could potentially give you a lot more than that though, which is where the trade swings in the Lakers favor, in my opinion. 

We'll see though. Kwame is kind of a headcase sometimes, but he has the right coach and the right situation to get it straight as can be.


----------



## IV

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



ClayVTrainum said:


> I thought he had shoulder surgery, but I'm certain that he's not missing half of the season. It would have certainly merited a thread on this board, no?


Agreed



> That's the three time "Ugliest Dog in the World" champion. I saw that in the newspaper a couple weeks ago.


That ish is funny! :laugh:


----------



## IV

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



leidout said:


> hahaha.... take it from a clipper fan, odom will find a way to miss half the season, via the ganja, depression, or legit injuries.
> 
> the lakers have just added to their mess with kwame brown. now you've got *three* players who can't play without the ball constantly in their hands (kobe, odom, kwame) and the same three are head cases in their own way.
> 
> not to mention bynum won't do a thing for probably three years... i see a lot of the wrong kinda triangles in phil jackson's future, but if he works this mess out give him the coach of the year for sure.


You're such a downer.


----------



## clien

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http:...ry?id=2107572&name=FPT-2107572-071414&srvc=sz


----------



## clien

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

kwame will be the 3rd maybe 4th option on this team, and he will have no expectations put on him in la, the way i see it he can only get better and hes surounded by guys who are gonna make offense easy for him(kobe,odom,and coach phil),,he may never be the superstar people thought he would be, but thats not necessarily what we need, we just need a servicable STARTING pf which we didnt have until,, now kwame has to make this team better than it was last yr...for how much i love butler this team will be better w/ kwamepf imo


----------



## H.O.V.A.

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

The Wizards are incredibly stupid for doing this trade.


----------



## tone wone

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

look I said in my earlier post....Kwame doesn't have to reach ALL of his potential to be a quality big man...hell, he's basically there already...

L.A. didn't have any size...now you do


----------



## H.O.V.A.

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



tone wone said:


> look I said in my earlier post....Kwame doesn't have to reach ALL of his potential to be a quality big man...hell, he's basically there already...
> 
> L.A. didn't have any size...now you do


Exactly. And in the few games that I watched Caron play this year, nothing really impressed me other than his hustle. After losing Hughes, I don't know if this is the right direction the Wizards should be going in. Dixon might be gone too. The complexion of the team will be vastly different next year.


----------



## NOODLESTYLE

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

I just like the fact that we will be able to get rid of Chucky Atkins ;D. And Turiaf will definatley get lots of PT. 

Anywho this almost solidies that we're going after Antonio Daniels because of the loss of Chucky Atkins. Although Kwame Brown is probaly one of the biggest busts alongside Sam Bowie and Michael Olowakandi, we still don't know his full potential like we do Darko. All I know is this is truly the year Kobe will be tested as a leader, already 2 high school players in Kwame and Bynum. Also he has a headcase in Chocolate Wafer....but imagine if they all play as a team and things work out as they were suppose to........the potential itself is just too hard to pass up. Caron Butler is a great player, but he won't show that sitting on the bench. Oh well this just ensures that the KG trade isnt going to happen.

Is this the big guy Phil Jackson was talking about?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

ESPN has confirmed that it will indeed be Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins, not Devean George, for Kwame Brown.

 

If we get Daniels, though, it's all OK. If not...we are screwed.


----------



## Unique

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

im so happy!!!! kwame kwame!!! .....i will miss caron though


----------



## Sean

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

interesting quotes here... what if caron is not included?
=============================================
LOS ANGELES (AP) - Kwame Brown is headed to the Los Angeles Lakers, his agent said Thursday.

Arn Tellem confirmed a published report that Brown, the first overall selection in the 2001 NBA draft, will be involved in a trade between the Lakers and Washington Wizards.

"It's Kwame's intention to sign a contract with the Wizards on the first day possible and be traded to the Lakers," Tellem said. "All parties are in agreement. This is the intention we're going to execute upon the first day possible."

That would be July 22 - the date when an NBA moratorium is lifted and teams can announce free agent signings or sign-and-trade transactions.

*Tellem wouldn't comment further, saying: "We're restricted in what we can say."*

It's *believed *the 6-foot-11 Brown will join the Lakers in exchange for swingman Caron Butler and guard Chucky Atkins.

The trade was first reported Thursday by the Los Angeles Times, which quoted sources.

*"We cannot make any comment until after the moratorium period ends," *Lakers spokesman John Black said.

Atkins is under contract for $4.5 million next season, while Butler will earn nearly $2.5 million.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

What if Caron is not included? You're kidding me right? :laugh:

There's about a, ohhh....I dunno....let's see....ok, I found it. Yeah, there is a 0% chance of that happening.


----------



## Locke

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



Damian Necronamous said:


> ESPN has confirmed that it will indeed be Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins, not Devean George, for Kwame Brown.


Sorry Damian, but... :banana::banana::banana:

We still need to get rid of another SF or two, but dumping Atkins is like an acquisition in itself to me.


----------



## Ghiman

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Poor Caron, when he played with the Heat, he named his daughter after the city of Miami ("Mia"), then he gets traded to the Lakers, him & Kobe become good friends. Now he's getting traded to Washington. I guess its true what they say about playing for the NBA, its all "business"


----------



## Unique

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



Ghiman said:


> Poor Caron, when he played with the Heat, he named his daughter after the city of Miami ("Mia"), then he gets traded to the Lakers, him & Kobe become good friends. Now he's getting traded to Washington. I guess its true what they say about playing for the NBA, its all "business"


that sux......caron will be missed......hopefully he grown in washington and he will always be in the laker family


----------



## The Ballatician PDM$

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

I think this is a trade the Lakers had to do..we have a surplus of SF's on our roster,and Phil Jackson puts a premium on defenders who can guard multiple positions..Devean George is a good defender and knows Jackson's system..so he could be a good plug-in there for now. I mean let's be serious..a franchise who has made the Finals 4 out of the last 6 season's..can't afford to be in obscurity for a long-time. They wanna be able to contend and they swang hard for the fences wtih the selection of Andrew Bynum and the newly aquired Kwame Brown..and are either goin to strike out..or hit a grand slam! I think with the change of scenery for Brown..will help aleviate a lot of the pressure he had in Washington,where many waited for him to be the savior of the franchise. In LA..he will not have the pressure of having to live up to the billing as "the man"..he can blossom in a complimentary role to Kobe Bryant,and at the same time can reaalllly come into his own in the next few years if he can improve his skill/confidence offensively,while serving as a defensive stopper for Phil Jax. And if Kwame pans out as early as next year (15ppg 7-9 rpg) you now have the luxury of playing Lamar exclusively at the 3 all the time. The Lakers had to do this! A guy with the immmmense potential and the size of a Kwame Brown could mean the difference between being a borderline playoff team..to being a contender in the talent heavy Western Conference.


----------



## Unique

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Kwame!!! Kwame !!! Kwame!!!! ............. :banana: :banana: ....


----------



## truth

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



Lakermike05 said:


> im so happy!!!! kwame kwame!!! .....i will miss caron though


You better tell kwame to strap em on,cause Turiaf is going to try and eat him alive


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



truth said:


> You better tell kwame to strap em on,cause Turiaf is going to try and eat him alive


Turiaf is a maniac. Yesterday he backed Simien down to the rim and tried to dunk on him but got fouled. He then stared Wayne down and gave him a scowl. Later he was arguing with the ref and Sasha came to break it up and Rony snapped on him to. Dude should toughen up Kwame some.


----------



## Unique

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



Jamel Irief said:


> Turiaf is a maniac. Yesterday he backed Simien down to the rim and tried to dunk on him but got fouled. He then stared Wayne down and gave him a scowl. Later he was arguing with the ref and Sasha came to break it up and Rony snapped on him to. Dude should toughen up Kwame some.


turiaf....can take care of the lakers hit list..shaq,bruce bowen,doug christie,ray allen, and daniels if he signs with portland


----------



## truth

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



Jamel Irief said:


> Turiaf is a maniac. Yesterday he backed Simien down to the rim and tried to dunk on him but got fouled. He then stared Wayne down and gave him a scowl. Later he was arguing with the ref and Sasha came to break it up and Rony snapped on him to. *Dude should toughen up Kwame some*.


i was hoping the Knicks would grab him....J,there is a fine line between toughening kwame up and breaking him..

Ask MJ....

I really hope kwame breaks out under Phil


----------



## clien

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

kwame could be awsome if he played as passionate as turiaf, if kwame wants to start on the lakers the next couple years he damn well better toughen up cuz turiaf(or bynum) will eat him up :cannibal:


----------



## Brian34Cook

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Agent Confirms Kwame to Lakers

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Kwame Brown is headed to the Los Angeles Lakers, his agent said Thursday.

Arn Tellem confirmed a published report that Brown, the first overall selection in the 2001 NBA draft, will be involved in a trade between the Lakers and Washington Wizards.

``It's Kwame's intention to sign a contract with the Wizards on the first day possible and be traded to the Lakers,'' Tellem said. ``All parties are in agreement. This is the intention we're going to execute upon the first day possible.'' 

That would be July 22 -- the date when an NBA moratorium is lifted and teams can announce free agent signings or sign-and-trade transactions.

Tellem wouldn't comment further, saying: ``We're restricted in what we can say.''

It's believed the 6-foot-11 Brown will join the Lakers in exchange for swingman Caron Butler and guard Chucky Atkins.

The trade was first reported Thursday by the Los Angeles Times, which quoted sources.

``We cannot make any comment until after the moratorium period ends,'' Lakers spokesman John Black said. 

[More in URL]


----------



## Jaj

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

Somehow I don't see toughening him up as the answer. I see motivating him as the best method and that's what Jackson does. He isn't a disciplinarian.


----------



## Cap

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*

I love how the LA Times tries to pimp themselves by saying they were the first to report this trade. No guys, in reality, this trade was first reported by Peter Vescey (slimy guy, but he was indeed right) more than a week ago and then further corroborated by David Aldridge and Phil Jackson.


----------



## clien

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



Jaj said:


> Somehow I don't see toughening him up as the answer. I see motivating him as the best method and that's what Jackson does. He isn't a disciplinarian.


wull ats true


----------



## LamarButler

oops wrong thread


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

So now Phil has the challenges of

1) Getting along with Kobe

2) Making Kobe/Lamar into a formidable duo

3) Teaching a bunch of young players the triangle

4) Motivating Kwame Brown

5) etc etc etc.

I hope you guys are right on this trade. It's not so much that the trade isn't fair. Taking on the boy with no heart is my problem. But I accept your points. We needed a big man in the worst way and Caron was probably our only way to make it happen. As I said earlier in the thread, I will gladly eat the crow if I turn out to be wrong.


----------



## BCH

*Re: LA Times: Lakers/Wizards agree to Brown for Butler trade*



clien said:


> kwame could be awsome if he played as passionate as turiaf


Remember that quote, and save this thread.

Good Luck Laker fans.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

The last two days, things have really picked up.

Luke Walton re-signed for 2 years, we sign Ronny Turiaf, we acquired Kwame Brown and then Vlade Divac retired. What's next? Hopefully the signing of Antonio Daniels. :gopray:


----------



## Unique

Damian Necronamous said:


> The last two days, things have really picked up.
> 
> Luke Walton re-signed for 2 years, we sign Ronny Turiaf, we acquired Kwame Brown and then Vlade Divac retired. What's next? Hopefully the signing of Antonio Daniels. :gopray:



you 4got sign kareem rush :biggrin:


----------



## LamarButler

> The last two days, things have really picked up.


Yeah but what other moves do you think are gonna happen? I think were gonna sign Tyronn Lue with the LLE considering the lack of depth at PG. I hope Mitch tries to make our depth better by trading some expiring contracts.


----------



## City_Dawg

Kareem Rush blows....


----------



## Unique

City_Dawg said:


> Kareem Rush blows....



:curse: :curse: :curse:


----------



## lafever8

wow! 19 pages........ :jawdrop:


----------



## Sean

Good interview from last year

http://www.mcicenter.com/wizards/video/kwame_041118.wmv


----------



## Unique

Has caron made any comments?


----------



## Sean

Some quotes from Kwame:

Quote:

"I'm not concerned with how I will be remembered in Washington," Brown said. "I'm concerned with how I'm remembered from this point on. It's about starting over and building a new legacy. This is a resurrection."

"Someone has a full career ahead of them and you're already calling him a bust?" Brown asked angrily. "Most of the people who write that never picked up a basketball in their life. I still have a full career ahead of me. If I turn it around in L.A., that's all I care about now. Turning it around and playing up to my potential. And, those same writers who wrote that will have to recant those statements."

"I agreed with the Wizards that I wouldn't talk about what happened and they agreed that they wouldn't talk about what happened. I'm going to honor that," Brown said. "I will say this, my frustrations, everything that happened, whatever started my disagreement I had with the Wizards, is because I wanted to play basketball."

"Washington made me a man, so I can't say anything negative about Washington. I came here a boy and I'm leaving a man. I can't say anything bad about the Wizards."

"When I talked to Mitch Kupchak and Phil Jackson and all the people in L.A., for them to be so excited and to want me after such negative publicity is real refreshing," Brown said. "I don't want to get into why it didn't work [in Washington], what could've or should've. I'm a Laker now. Once I step on that floor, I'm wearing a Laker uniform."


----------



## Brian34Cook

Sounds like he's ready.. He better be.. Welcome Kwame :banana:


----------



## Ghiman

Sean said:


> Some quotes from Kwame:
> "When I talked to Mitch Kupchak and Phil Jackson and all the people in L.A., for them to be so excited and to want me after such negative publicity is real refreshing," Brown said. "I don't want to get into why it didn't work [in Washington], what could've or should've. I'm a Laker now. Once I step on that floor, I'm wearing a Laker uniform."


Excellent! 

I'm glad to read that he's going to put everything negative behind him and start fresh in LA. :clap: I'm predicting he'll be an impact player this season for the Lakers


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

When is the press conference? I assume after July 22nd?


----------



## PauloCatarino

Sean said:


> Some quotes from Kwame:
> 
> Quote:
> 
> "I'm not concerned with how I will be remembered in Washington," Brown said. "I'm concerned with how I'm remembered from this point on. It's about starting over and building a new legacy. This is a resurrection."
> 
> "Someone has a full career ahead of them and you're already calling him a bust?" Brown asked angrily. "Most of the people who write that never picked up a basketball in their life. I still have a full career ahead of me. If I turn it around in L.A., that's all I care about now. Turning it around and playing up to my potential. And, those same writers who wrote that will have to recant those statements."
> 
> "I agreed with the Wizards that I wouldn't talk about what happened and they agreed that they wouldn't talk about what happened. I'm going to honor that," Brown said. "I will say this, my frustrations, everything that happened, whatever started my disagreement I had with the Wizards, is because I wanted to play basketball."
> 
> "Washington made me a man, so I can't say anything negative about Washington. I came here a boy and I'm leaving a man. I can't say anything bad about the Wizards."
> 
> "When I talked to Mitch Kupchak and Phil Jackson and all the people in L.A., for them to be so excited and to want me after such negative publicity is real refreshing," Brown said. "I don't want to get into why it didn't work [in Washington], what could've or should've. I'm a Laker now. Once I step on that floor, I'm wearing a Laker uniform."


Strong words, indeed.

One of the main knocks on Kwame has always been his fragile psyche. These are not quotes from a man-child. Let's hope Kwame is as strong-willed as he appears to be...


----------



## truth

PauloCatarino said:


> Strong words, indeed.
> 
> One of the main knocks on Kwame has always been his fragile psyche. These are not quotes from a man-child. Let's hope Kwame is as strong-willed as he appears to be...


The main Knock on kwame is that he has been a major underacheiver...on top of it he is/was a quitter..

Please dont misunderstand me..The guy is seriously talented..But dont let his words do the talking..Its time for his actions to do the talking....

If you ever saw the wizard of Oz you would know that there was the scarecrow,the lion and the tin man...And of course the wizard

In the Nba,there is Jerome James,Kwame and steven hunter...

Jerome James,chosen by the wizard Zeke,is the lion..The dude lacks courage..No work ethic,dogs it,and is a slacker..

Kwame,chosen by the wizard mitch,is the lion..He has NO heart...Fragile ego,and has quit in his team in the past...

Which wizard is wiser?? Time will tell....The only thing is you guys gave up a warrior in caron


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

truth said:


> The main Knock on kwame is that he has been a major underacheiver...on top of it he is/was a quitter..
> 
> Please dont misunderstand me..The guy is seriously talented..But dont let his words do the talking..Its time for his actions to do the talking....
> 
> If you ever saw the wizard of Oz you would know that there was the scarecrow,the lion and the tin man...And of course the wizard
> 
> In the Nba,there is Jerome James,Kwame and steven hunter...
> 
> Jerome James,chosen by the wizard Zeke,is the lion..The dude lacks courage..No work ethic,dogs it,and is a slacker..
> 
> Kwame,chosen by the wizard mitch,is the lion..He has NO heart...Fragile ego,and has quit in his team in the past...
> 
> Which wizard is wiser?? Time will tell....The only thing is you guys gave up a warrior in caron


 :laugh:


----------



## Locke

truth said:


> The main Knock on kwame is that he has been a major underacheiver...on top of it he is/was a quitter..
> 
> Please dont misunderstand me..The guy is seriously talented..But dont let his words do the talking..Its time for his actions to do the talking....
> 
> If you ever saw the wizard of Oz you would know that there was the scarecrow,the lion and the tin man...And of course the wizard
> 
> In the Nba,there is Jerome James,Kwame and steven hunter...
> 
> Jerome James,chosen by the wizard Zeke,is the lion..The dude lacks courage..No work ethic,dogs it,and is a slacker..
> 
> Kwame,chosen by the wizard mitch,is the lion..He has NO heart...Fragile ego,and has quit in his team in the past...
> 
> Which wizard is wiser?? Time will tell....The only thing is you guys gave up a warrior in caron


:rofl: Truth, you've outdone yourself this time. BUT, Jerome James was the guy that stated in a post-game interview in the playoffs that he had no respect for the Spurs. That doesn't say he lacks courage, it says he lacks a brain, so he's the scarecrow.

Caron, as much as I like him, shrivelled up and faded away when the Lakers were trying to make a playoff push. That is no heart, so he was the tin man.

And Chucky Atkins is just a munchkin and represents the Lollypop Guild.


----------



## Laker Freak

> *Wizards Notes: For salary cap purposes, the trade that sent Kwame Brown to the Lakers in exchange for Chucky Atkins and Caron Butler also included former Maryland guard Laron Profit.*
> 
> Profit, who started 17 games while playing parts of three seasons with the Wizards, was an unrestricted free agent and signed a one-year, non-guaranteed contract to be included in the deal. . . .
> 
> A source close to restricted free agent guard Steve Blake, also a former Terrapin, said that the acquisition of Atkins opens the door for Blake to sign elsewhere. Blake was Gilbert Arenas's primary backup at point guard each of the last two seasons, but that role is expected to be filled by Atkins. . . .


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/15/AR2005071502082.html


----------



## Unique

Hey everybody...im leaving tommorow at 3 am!! 4 vacation..ill be gone like a week in a half ill prob miss kwame trade and everything but i juss wanted to say good bye....GO LAKERS.........


-mike


----------



## thekid

Laron Profit looks like camp fodder that will get cut to me..


----------



## truth

Locke said:


> :rofl: Truth, you've outdone yourself this time. BUT, Jerome James was the guy that stated in a post-game interview in the playoffs that he had no respect for the Spurs. That doesn't say he lacks courage, it says he lacks a brain, so he's the scarecrow.
> 
> Caron, as much as I like him, shrivelled up and faded away when the Lakers were trying to make a playoff push. That is no heart, so he was the tin man.
> 
> And Chucky Atkins is just a munchkin and represents the Lollypop Guild.


LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!! locke....the scarecrow currently resides in Phoenix..Mr Hunter..BTW,you guys took the 2 players I was hoping for...Bynum and Kwame,so I will never knock Mitchs moves,but i have a funny feeling Kobe is gonna KILL Kwame,or whats left of him after Turiaf...Did you see the washington Post...UGLY!!!!!!!!!!



> But there's just as much evidence that suggests Kwame Brown will go to the Lakers and be the slacker he was here, the kid who overslept practices or only halfway practiced when he did show, and always found somebody to blame but himself. Oh yes, he's a bust. That he had the nerve to talk about his "legacy" is beyond laughable. Please, please, please, let the July 22 transaction date get here in a hurry before Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant get a close look at this lame, irresponsible kid and rescind the trade. Legacy? Raise your hand if you see Brown continuing the Lakers legacy of Mikan, Wilt, Kareem and Shaq.
> 
> Brown can't get out of here fast enough, and it's been apparent for the longest time. For the first two years, everybody here owed him a great deal of patience, from Michael Jordan and Doug Collins, who should never have taken him, to teammates trying to figure out what to do with the first high school kid ever selected with the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, to the media members charged with the responsibility of covering his career.
> 
> But there were two years after that, 164 games, two more training camps, countless practice and film sessions. Look at the progress Gilbert Arenas, also 23, has made in four years. Look at the steps Amare Stoudemire, still 22, has taken. Look at Dwyane Wade, still 23. There are plenty of 23-year-olds in the NBA who come to work like grown men every day. Brown ain't one of 'em. Can't get himself out of bed on time, can't get to practice on time (if at all), can't treat his coach with common respect. The word "bust" doesn't even begin to adequately describe what a stunning disappointment Brown has been. And for half of his four NBA years, Brown has been in his twenties, not his teens.
> 
> Yeah, I blame the Wizards, Michael Jordan specifically I suppose, for drafting him (ahead of Pau Gasol, no less) and the club for not providing enough structure for a small-town kid dropped in the big city with no preparation. But beyond that, it's time somebody held this kid responsible. He's a super-size bust and it's predominantly his own fault. Nobody here asked or expected him to be Wilt. Reasonable progress toward competence would have made him palatable, but he wasn't capable even of that. Instead, what he became was a quitter who had to be suspended in the playoffs.
> 
> He was too trifling to put in the work with Jordan and Charles Oakley, who literally couldn't get him out of bed to practice or work out in the gym. And after they were gone, he was too sorry and no-account to adopt a serious work ethic even though the team's best player -- Arenas -- is a workaholic and has done everything he can think of to include Brown . . . including go to his house and pick him up.


The wizard better get to work on this one..and Keep Turiaf away from Kwame


----------



## madskillz1_99

All that stuff from the Washington post is to be expected, sounds like sour grapes.


----------



## Locke

That is a brutal piece. That's the risk we're taking though, that he remains the same way. On the bright side of it, however, if he doesn't work out he's only here for 2 seasons.


----------



## truth

madskillz1_99 said:


> All that stuff from the Washington post is to be expected, sounds like sour grapes.


I dont think that is sour grapes..i think thats the reality..And its a reality no less than what Zeke has taken on in Jerome James...

if Kwame can ressurect himself and Bynum develops,Mich will look like an absolur genius..I am curious to see how Kobe handles Brown...


----------



## Unique

my flight got cancled guys theres a hurricane in cancun so it got cancled


----------



## One on One

One thing I think you guys might be glad to know is that Kwame was one of the most popular players among the Wizards...he always had run-ins with the coaches and MJ, but this past year he had support from all the players, kinda like they understood what he was going through. I think he's gonna thrive in LA.


----------



## Unique

One on One said:


> One thing I think you guys might be glad to know is that Kwame was one of the most popular players among the Wizards...he always had run-ins with the coaches and MJ, but this past year he had support from all the players, kinda like they understood what he was going through. I think he's gonna thrive in LA.


its nice to know that ur supporting a guy u traded....ull enjoy caron..hes got heart


----------



## clien

truth said:


> I am curious to see how Kobe handles Brown...


i think kobe will support and backup kwame,, just b/c he kinda went through the same thing coming out of high school w/ alot of expectations


----------



## Unique

will kwame start?


----------



## The One

Lakermike05 said:


> will kwame start?


Thats why they got him


----------



## Brian34Cook

What can Brown do for Lakers? Plenty, says high school coach

There are a lot of people who think Kwame Brown going to Los Angeles could be a good thing, maybe none more so than Dan Moore.

And that's not only because Brown's former high school coach is a lifelong Lakers fan. It's also because he believes the move would give the best player he's had in 25 years of basketball a chance to salvage his good name.

It's been hard for Moore to watch the last four years as Brown went from being a phenom at Glynn Academy to a flop in the NBA.

He hasn't minded so much that his former star hasn't lived up to expectations. Those always belonged to other people anyway.

Like the team that figured it would get more than seven points and 22 minutes per game from a player drafted out of high school with the first overall pick in 2001.

Or the Wizards fans, who never could quite figure out how someone 6-foot-11 could play so small.

Or even the Washington media who fed the image of failure without really acknowledging that it's tough to make an impact on six shots a night, which is what Brown averaged while playing alongside rapid-firers such as Michael Jordan and Jerry Stackhouse.

"I've said it before and I stand by it,'' said Moore, "Kwame didn't pick the Wizards, the Wizards picked Kwame. But he's been blamed for that pick. I think the organization sent mixed messages to Kwame and everybody about how they were going to bring him along slowly and then for two years it was Michael's road show. But it seems Kwame's been an easy scapegoat.''

What's not so easy for Moore to explain or accept is the way Brown has reacted to his difficulties, the apparent sulking and loafing and conflicts with authority figures he has shown in Washington.

That's been both surprising and upsetting for Moore, who didn't see that kind of behavior from Brown when he first coached him as a seventh-grader and said it never surfaced when he was the country's most prominent high school senior, either. Moore certainly didn't sense any unevenness in Brown when he allowed the player to babysit his own children.

"I'm disappointed that some of the lessons we taught him at 16 and 17 seem to have been forgotten,'' said Moore. "Some of the things that have happened off the court - being suspended, snapping back at Michael Jordan - have allowed people to portray him in a bad light. And that's too bad.

"Kwame is a very nice, very articulate, caring young man, yet the general public might see him as a surly and selfish young man. He has to correct what people think of him and get the general public to see what I see. The next two years are going to be critical to his longevity in the league. But it's certainly not irreparable at this point.''

[More in URL]


----------



## SoCalfan21

Kwame....great...i think hell be the most popular player on the Lake....wait...we already have one of those guys :biggrin:


----------



## Unique

i just rememberd we 4got to say bye to chucky atkins!!

Bye chucky!!!! dont come back !!!juss keep going :curse:


----------



## Jamel Irief

Wow, enjoyed spending 30 minutes reading this. Looks like a ton of people underestimated Caron. And of course overestimated Kwame..


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> This is bull****. I am 100% opposed to this trade. Phil will never be able to teach him desire. Nobody can. Our need for big men does not overlap the need for players with heart.


This was my response. 

Why all the bumps all of a sudden?


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> I hope Jack Haley reports it like crazy.


Another reply by me.


----------



## nguyen_milan

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> This was my response.
> 
> Why all the bumps all of a sudden?


I wonder about it too haha, maybe boring off season?


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> This was my response.
> 
> Why all the bumps all of a sudden?


I think I was proud that in a 300 post thread where I posted over ten times every singe thing I wrote became true... especially when I took some heat back then.

Look at the stuff about "Caron won't get any better" and "will start on only 3 teams in the league."


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

I also saw that you suggested we S&T him for Stromile. 

I guess we were one of the few to predict the ensuing disaster known as the Caron for Kwame trade. It looks like Mitch/Jim have some added pressure to not get torched on anymore trades. I'm worried about them mouthing off about trading certain players since it will just kill trade value(See the Shaq trade). I'm also getting real sick of his salary cap restrictions excuse. This is the internet age. Fans are not completely oblivious to the CBA, etc. No more bull****. Make this team a contender in whatever way possible.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

All the posts that I read were unsatisfied with the trade...


----------



## Jamel Irief

Damian Necronamous said:


> All the posts that I read were unsatisfied with the trade...


You must of not read much. Even you said you liked it-


Damian Necronamous said:


> I do have to admit that I'm looking forward to seeing if Kwame can turn it around on the Lakers.


----------



## Pinball

I had reservations about Kwame but I found a few silver linings in the deal. The score is looking like Caron-70 Kwame-30 right now. Believe it or not, I still feel that Kwame can make this 50-50. He'll probably never be better though. I didn't bank on him being as soft, moody, and well....*****like as he is.


----------



## JerryWest

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



tatahbenitez said:


> Quote:
> [Originally Posted by KennethTo
> Yeah he has talent, and can drive to the hoop well for a big man w/ a good body, but that's it.]
> 
> That's it? What the heck are The Lakers thinking? A big man with talent, that can drive to the basket and has a good body. The Lakers should laugh at Washington and come back with a counter offer of Butler for Brown, Jameson, and a future #1....
> 
> Ok, now let's get back to reality.
> 
> Though The Lakers drafted 2 big men in the draft, I wouldn't be too comfortable with a 17 yr old high school kid and a rookie on my front line. Besides Bynum is not going to contribute greatly for the next few years and although I like Turiaf, he is still unproven and has less upside than Kwame.
> The Lakers should go through with this trade (if it actually is on the table). Then they would have a big man without spending any of their MLE money and can use it to get their starting point guard.


tatahbenitez - Kwame still trash except for a few games in the playoffs.

Kwame still still a bum with rocks for hand sthat is a solid contributor. turiaf and bynum are still better options and cheaper, OWNED.
Mitch is a **** GM, and he made yet another bad move.


----------



## JerryWest

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



KennethTo said:


> I think Turiaf could average those numbers. He'd probably shoot a lower percentage and have around 8 or 7 points if given same minutes but I wouldn't count him out on getting more rebounds and blocks than Kwame.
> 
> I am not fan of Kwame, mainly because he shows zero effort. You can't teach effort. Players don't suddenly get motivated.
> 
> Yeah he has talent, and can drive to the hoop well for a big man w/ a good body, but that's it.


me


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Another reply by me.


Lmao..I remember that response..hahah


----------



## SoCalfan21

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

My response to the whole ordeal...



SoCalfan21 said:


> if he does this deal im goin to his house and slapping him some 230.032 times


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



SoCalfan21 said:


> My response to the whole ordeal...


please tell me you did.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*

A few things you have to remember:


Kwame's deal was originally reported at only 2 years.
Butler was a terrible defender here and improved a lot after the trade.
Most of us didn't think we would be losing Atkins in the deal.
We were told Kwame would start at PF which would have allowed Odom to play the 3.
That being said I was against the trade from the beginning, but I didn't think it would turn out this lopsided.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



SoCalfan21 said:


> My response to the whole ordeal...


:cheers:


----------



## Silk D

*Re: Uh oh...Caron headed to Washington? (Actual source!)*



Laker Freak said:


> We were told Kwame would start at PF which would have allowed Odom to play the 3



I think this was the key. I was not opposed to the trade because at worst, it would allow lamar to go back to the 3. if we'd known lamar would've stayed at the 4, We obviously would've kept Caron and had mihm at the 5


----------



## Drewbs

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



KennethTo said:


> tatahbenitez - Kwame still trash except for a few games in the playoffs.
> 
> Kwame still still a bum with rocks for hand sthat is a solid contributor. turiaf and bynum are still better options and cheaper, OWNED.
> Mitch is a **** GM, and he made yet another bad move.


Turaif and Bynum are not better options than Brown. Brown does have rocks for hands and can't hold onto rebounds or catch hard entry passes that well but Turiaf is way undersized, and Bynum is slow and can't defend a chair. 

This trade was lopsided but I often wonder where this team was supposed to go with the lineup they originally had? A team as undersized and horrible defensively as Atkins/Kobe/Butler/Odom/Turiaf would never get out of the first round either. That team simply could not have been kept together with the team going anywhere. Either Odom or Butler had to be traded for a big man, imo Butler had better on court chemistry with Kobe, but Odom brings more to the table. Also, Kwame's size has made improvements to the team's defense, something the team needed more than Butler's scoring. Has everyone forgotten how pathetic defensively the team was when Kwame was out this season and Turiaf and Bynum played heavy minutes at center? Kwame does annoying things like throwing up weak shots in traffic and tipping rebounds when he should just grab them, but he also does things like guard the pick and roll and body up on guys that no one else on the team could do before the trade or can do now.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Drewbs said:


> Turaif and Bynum are not better options than Brown. Brown does have rocks for hands and can't hold onto rebounds or catch hard entry passes that well but Turiaf is way undersized, and Bynum is slow and can't defend a chair.
> 
> This trade was lopsided but I often wonder where this team was supposed to go with the lineup they originally had? A team as undersized and horrible defensively as Atkins/Kobe/Butler/Odom/Turiaf would never get out of the first round either. That team simply could not have been kept together with the team going anywhere. Either Odom or Butler had to be traded for a big man, imo Butler had better on court chemistry with Kobe, but Odom brings more to the table. Also, Kwame's size has made improvements to the team's defense, something the team needed more than Butler's scoring. Has everyone forgotten how pathetic defensively the team was when Kwame was out this season and Turiaf and Bynum played heavy minutes at center? Kwame does annoying things like throwing up weak shots in traffic and tipping rebounds when he should just grab them, but he also does things like guard the pick and roll and body up on guys that no one else on the team could do before the trade or can do now.


That lineup you listed is actually bigger than the lineups of two second round teams in the west. On top of that it's not like other trades couldn't of been made later... Butler for Magloire, Butler for Al Harrington, Butler/Atkins for Chandler.


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## JerryWest

*Re: Source: Wizards reportedly working Kwame to LAL for Butler to WAS deal*



Drewbs said:


> Turaif and Bynum are not better options than Brown. Brown does have rocks for hands and can't hold onto rebounds or catch hard entry passes that well but Turiaf is way undersized, and Bynum is slow and can't defend a chair.
> 
> This trade was lopsided but I often wonder where this team was supposed to go with the lineup they originally had? A team as undersized and horrible defensively as Atkins/Kobe/Butler/Odom/Turiaf would never get out of the first round either. That team simply could not have been kept together with the team going anywhere. Either Odom or Butler had to be traded for a big man, imo Butler had better on court chemistry with Kobe, but Odom brings more to the table. Also, Kwame's size has made improvements to the team's defense, something the team needed more than Butler's scoring. Has everyone forgotten how pathetic defensively the team was when Kwame was out this season and Turiaf and Bynum played heavy minutes at center? Kwame does annoying things like throwing up weak shots in traffic and tipping rebounds when he should just grab them, but he also does things like guard the pick and roll and body up on guys that no one else on the team could do before the trade or can do now.


Bynum's offensive skills are more advanced then Kwame already, plus he can actually catch balls. His problem is more on the defensive end, but then again Kwame shows lapses there as well. Turiaf is an excellent defender though not as good on the big bodies as kwame, Turiaf is great on the boards though. When healthy, Mihm is a better offensive player then Kwame. He can catch, post up and score.

As for size, how big are the suns and the warriors? The warriors are running with Al as their center. For every size advantage, you can create a mismatch in speed and Butler is a very effective rebounder for his position, plus an excellent wing defender.


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