# OT: Fox News Reports - Kobe Bryant Case



## Peter Vescey (Oct 23, 2002)

Fox news is reporting Colorado authorities have an *ABUNDANCE* of evidence in the Kobe Bryant case.

This is from the cable network.

Here is a link from the vail paper.

This link doesn't provide much info, but I'll see if Fox has a story on it.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

If he did it, he should go away for a long time---a la Rae Carruth.

BUT---does evidence of rape exist, or just of contact?

Either way---how does his wife feel?

:no:


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

I don't have a link, but in the Newsweek that I just got this week, it says that there are reports that Kobe has been kicked out of the house. But that might only signal that he committed adultery - not sexual assault.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> I don't have a link, but in the Newsweek that I just got this week, it says that there are reports that Kobe has been kicked out of the house. But that might only signal that he committed adultery - not sexual assault.


Here:



> His parents and sisters moved from the homes he’d bought them in L.A. back to Philadelphia; Bryant’s father has said he’s never seen his 5-month-old granddaughter. “That’s been real difficult for Kobe,” says an NBA player who asked not to be named. “Now he has to deal with this—I’m not sure he can deal with this—without support.” One source told NEWSWEEK Bryant’s wife has kicked him out. Whether that’s true or not, we can confirm that Bryant, his wife and his accuser will not enjoy the rest of the summer.


http://www.msnbc.com/news/938249.asp


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

I don't really like to comment on cases I don't know much about....but.... 

Just out of an odd curiousity... How did Bryant get kicked out of a house HE Bought? It must have been REAL BAD for him to more out of what I'm sure is a huge and expensive (read: bought with Kobe's paychecks) house.


Now I hope what facts I'm reading so far aren't true, but if they are, I hope he gets what he deserves and his celebrity status doesn't get him a free pass on any of the charges....


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> If he did it, he should go away for a long time---a la Rae Carruth.
> 
> BUT---does evidence of rape exist, or just of contact?
> ...



Ray Caruth killed his wife. I'm not saying that rape isn't a bad thing I just think that this is a bad comparison. :uhoh:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> Here:
> ...





> His parents and sisters moved from the homes he’d bought them in L.A. back to Philadelphia; Bryant’s father has said he’s never seen his 5-month-old granddaughter.


Just to clarify, I believe this stuff happened over the last year and BEFORE the sexual assault allegations because Kobe's family disapproved of his wife (reportedly largely on the basis that she's not black).

<HR>

I don't know what to make of the whole thing. Basically there's no way at this point to get an accurate account. Kobe would have to be close to insane to sexually assault someone, and someone would have to be close to insane to falsely accuse Kobe of sexual assault.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> I don't really like to comment on cases I don't know much about....but....
> 
> Just out of an odd curiousity... How did Bryant get kicked out of a house HE Bought? It must have been REAL BAD for him to more out of what I'm sure is a huge and expensive (read: bought with Kobe's paychecks) house.


"Kobe, we can do this one of two ways: You can find another place to stay and come back when you've got yourself togather, or I can take the baby and go and the next time you see us..."


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mo76</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Ray Caruth killed his wife. I'm not saying that rape isn't a bad thing I just think that this is a bad comparison. :uhoh:



I was saying he should rot in jail the same exact way...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know what to make of the whole thing. Basically there's no way at this point to get an accurate account. Kobe would have to be close to insane to sexually assault someone, and someone would have to be close to insane to falsely accuse Kobe of sexual assault.


I would hope his family wouldn't be that rascist. :no: 


About the insanity of it all---I've wondered if instead, it was a member of his entourage, and not him.

Hmmm...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I didn't know this:



> * A number of NBA players* have said Bryant’s accuser, a college student and former high-school cheerleader, is well known as a basketball groupie.


newsweek thread above.

Curiouser and curiouser.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> I would hope his family wouldn't be that rascist. :no:


That was the scoop in the LA Times. Of course, it's somewhat disputed too :|



> About the insanity of it all---I've wondered if instead, it was a member of his entourage, and not him.
> 
> Hmmm...


That thought crossed my mind too, but surely this thing wouldn't have reached the stage it is already at if that were the case. Would Kobe just say "charge that guy, not me?" Wouldn't the woman?

In any case, the truth would certainly come out if there is any DNA testing involved, so I don't see how anyone would gain by it. Of course, if there's no DNA to test (keep in mind it wouldn't have to be semen... it could be taken from a stray hair or what have you), then that's another story.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Just out of an odd curiousity... How did Bryant get kicked out of a house HE Bought? It must have been REAL BAD for him to more out of what I'm sure is a huge and expensive (read: bought with Kobe's paychecks) house.


Becuase he was stupid enough to get married when he really wanted to play around


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> That was the scoop in the LA Times. Of course, it's somewhat disputed too :|


Parents can find a lot of reasons to dislike their kids spouse. It could have been any of 1.42 million things. There was also contraversy about it in the 'black comunity'. Put a 'no comment' from the family togather with the 'word on the street'and you get that. Sad. His dad played in Italy. I can't see him doing that and being closeminded.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> A number of NBA players have said Bryant’s accuser, a college student and former high-school cheerleader, is well known as a basketball groupie.


The equalizer to that apparently GB is a weekend program on MSNBC or FOX last weekend (can't remember which) that had as one of its guests a sports radio host from FLA. He also did 10 years previously in LA so he purports to know something about Bryant. He says unabashedly that Kobe likes the young girls, has had many a previous daliance AND get this --- he maintains Kobe previously knew this woman. He maintains Kobe has an unknown life similar to Jordan during his heyday. Now who knows if any of this is true but its no better or worse than the unspecified NBA players trying to muck it up in the statement quoted above. The news services have reported today some conflicting reports that the woman was shaken but not hysterical when she came downstairs. I suspect it will be easy for Kobe's lawyer to get all sorts of contradictory stories going to help confuse the case and get him cleared DNA or not. If he's innocent he deserves to be fully exonerated. If he's guilty he deserves to rot as you have suggested. I just hope the celebrity powers can be stripped away as well and justice can actually get served.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

We've seen the alleged reports the victim was a celebrity wannabe having tried out for American Idol, we've heard she was unstable and tried to commit suicide after a friend was recently killed...BUT will Kobe's confident statement that it will all be ok really come true? If he's guilty, his celebrity might not actually save him which will be something of an anomaly in this day and age. Looks like Kobe may already be without the home court advantage. Usually in legal affairs this is paramount, so based on this "Abundance of Evidence" Kobe may really have his hands full.

*
Venue could be tough for Bryant
By Vicki Michaelis, USA TODAY

With a decision pending on whether NBA star Kobe Bryant will be charged with sexual assault, experts said Monday that a possible trial would be different from most involving high-profile athletes because the likely venue is the alleged victim's hometown.

"For somebody like me, who's used to seeing cases prosecuted on the athlete's turf, this is very different," says Kathy Redmond, founder of the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes. "The playing field is leveled."

Because Bryant is a five-time NBA All Star and winner of three NBA titles with the Los Angeles Lakers, "I don't see the scales totally tipping in (the alleged victim's) favor," Redmond says.

*

Story


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

The National Coalition Against Violent Athletes?


:dead:


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> "Kobe, we can do this one of two ways: You can find another place to stay and come back when you've got yourself togather, or I can take the baby and go and the next time you see us..."


Exactly. It's this line of reasoning that has me thinking this could be BAD. Real bad. 

When your wife threatens to leave you and the authorities are bringing in physical evidence and testing both parites (DNA) ... It's gonna be messy.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> A number of NBA players have said Bryant’s accuser, a college student and former high-school cheerleader, is well known as a basketball groupie.


This is odd. Mostly because you hear of a lot of these NBA players dating some of the same girls. These groupies that show up at all the games. It seems that being in a circle of groupies you wouldn't jeapordize it by calling rape on someone. If she's a groupie wouldn't Kobe Bryant be the ultimate score? Now she's going to be like the plague to other athletes. If she is a well known groupie then this is truly odd behavior on her part.

I was wondering how many NBA players can get arrested in a week? These guys need to take it down a notch.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly. It's this line of reasoning that has me thinking this could be BAD. Real bad.
> ...


It was reported that Kobe was telling everyone at the resort that nothing happened. This will only strengthen any DNA evidence against him because he won't be able to turn the story around later saying it did happen, but it was consensual.

The groupie thing sounds more like NBA players trying to "get Kobe's back".

No civil suit has been filed to date which, depending how much you want to read into this, may also be a very bad indicator for Kobe.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

*"A number of NBA players have said Bryant’s accuser, a college student and former high-school cheerleader, is well known as a basketball groupie."* 

Sounds like it might be time to circle the wagons. While I'm trying to keep an open mind, I have to admit feeling a great amount concern for this woman and her family especially in terms of what shreds of dignity she and her loved ones will retain when this is over.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> This is odd. Mostly because you hear of a lot of these NBA players dating some of the same girls. These groupies that show up at all the games. It seems that being in a circle of groupies you wouldn't jeapordize it by calling rape on someone. If she's a groupie wouldn't Kobe Bryant be the ultimate score? Now she's going to be like the plague to other athletes. If she is a well known groupie then this is truly odd behavior on her part.
> ...


Lizzy--it sounds like your mind is made up and/or you want to see him go down for it.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> No civil suit has been filed to date which, depending how much you want to read into this, may also be a very bad indicator for Kobe.


Why would this be a bad indicator?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> *"A number of NBA players have said Bryant’s accuser, a college student and former high-school cheerleader, is well known as a basketball groupie."*
> 
> Sounds like it might be time to circle the wagons. While I'm trying to keep an open mind, I have to admit feeling a great amount concern for this woman and her family especially in terms of what shreds of dignity she and her loved ones will retain when this is over.


True that.

She might want to move.

Pitiful thing---no one is ever going to be happy with the outcome in this case. Not him, not her, not the unpleasable feminists who'll beat the drum that he 

1. Should have been charged if he isn't
2. That he's recieving special treatment if he is charged
3. That he bought the system if he's charged and exonerated
4. That the sentence doesn't fit the crime if he's charged and found guilty.

His _career_ might never be the same again.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Here's what a lady from the Women Against Violent Athletes said:



> Kathy Redmond, founder of the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes and a rape victim herself, said hospital visits after alleged sexual assaults are to help gather physical evidence.
> 
> "Physical evidence is a rape kit, and she would not have done that if his semen had not been in her," said Redmond. "A sexual assault victim has to go to a hospital where they take swab samples. Then they examine for tears and abrasions...there are always tears and abrasions. It's the only scientific evidence that exists."
> 
> ...


I censored it a tiny bit---just in case on the off-chance that anyone would object. 
http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030709/NEWS/307090101


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Well according to the lady from the Women Against Violent Athletes, we don't need a trial, do we.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> Well according to the lady from the Women Against Violent Athletes, we don't need a trial, do we.


String 'em up right now. 

Seriously--I expect Kobe to become her _cause celebré_ if anything short of multi-year jail sentence occurs. You'll be hearing from her a lot.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> "They're painful, and if she was working a scam it's the one certain way that her claim could be refuted," said Redmond. "It's ludicrous that she would voluntarily do that."


But it certainly isn't ludicrous to think She could have had sex, found it uncomfortable/painful, even suffered abbrasions, and yet not objected. It happens all the time.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Why would this be a bad indicator?


If she were a gold-digger she would have most likely already filed a civil suit to cash in. The absence of this suit may be an indicator that Kobe could very well be guilty of the assault and the victim and her families only concern at this time is the criminal process. This seems to be the thinking of the talking heads on the news networks and I must admit I buy this line of thinking to some degree.

Its true nobody will be happy with this outcome whatever it may be, but hopefully it will be fairly resolved. If Kobe did it he deserves to go down. Even if he could plea this out, he would become a registered sex offender. Thats the law. If he didn't do it, he should be completely exonerated and he should not be tarnished by it. Most experts feel that he would not suffer from this if no charges are brought.

I certainly don't care for the feminist causes and believe they go too far 99 times out of 100, but any sort of objective viewpoint would have to give this woman every benefit of the doubt. Kobe has celebrity, money and media clout working in his favor. She has a small town DA and Sheriff. I would say that innocent or guilty, the odds are stacked in Kobe's favor. 

Perhaps if he could get a change of venue and don't rule it out, it would become a slam dunk in his favor. I suspect that regardless of how strong the DNA evidence may be, this womans only chance may be to have a real 'jury of her peers' deciding the outcome.

Its easy to think people are against Kobe or want to see him go down based on their opinions. But keep in mind, those who would like to see true justice served here will have to go the extra mile to make it happen. Like it or not, celebrity often places you above the law.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> Lizzy--it sounds like your mind is made up and/or you want to see him go down for it.


ummm no. Just saying if she is a groupie then her going to the police is wierd. 

I hope he didn't rape her and will be exonorated. Why would I want someone who is a hero to millions of kids to be convicted for rape?


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> bringing in physical evidence and testing both parites (DNA) ... It's gonna be messy.


especially the testing part... yuck.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> No civil suit has been filed to date which, depending how much you want to read into this, may also be a very bad indicator for Kobe.



The latest:



> 7NEWS Investigates investigator Tony Kovaleski asked Hurlbert for reaction to some legal experts' opinion that the longer it takes for prosecutors to file charges, the weaker the case.
> 
> "I don't know what experts are saying that, and that is not true," Hurlbert told Kovaleski in Vail.
> 
> *7NEWS has also learned that the alleged victim's family has hired a lawyer.*



I think the DA, once he makes his announcement, wants to have an airtight case for or against---because he's new and he knows he's going to be second guessed from here to eternity.

Interesting info on the DA: http://9news.com/satellite/Satellit...MPLATEID=c69e6d77-0a06-92b3-0026-be8c3c80f8bd



Last night at the Espy's:


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> Last night at the Espy's:



Is that his wife and whats she reaching for - wallet or ....?  

I thought I heard he didn't go and he taped a message or something like that.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> The latest:
> 
> I think the DA, once he makes his announcement, wants to have an airtight case for or against---because he's new and he knows he's going to be second guessed from here to eternity.
> ...


Heres what the news networks are saying about the lawyer GB. 

Kobe's team may want to talk money / deal here. However, they cannot open such discussions directly with the victim. This is not allowed. But, now that the victim has hired an attorney, these discussions can indeed take place. It has also been said that the DA is moving slowly not only to make sure he has a good case, but to let the two parties get together and work out a deal. He certainly has given them plenty of time. So look for more delays.

Furthermore, the victims best friend said on an interview last night that the victim was raped by Kobe.

One could cynically say that Kobe's assurrances that everything will be fine are because he knows he will pay this victim whatever he has to in order to make this go away. 

Notice how he hasn't come clean regarding what really happened. And we don't need all sorts of "his lawyer told him not to say anything" rubbish. If NOTHING happened, he could simply explain what occurred in his room. IMO his utter silence on the issue means SOMETHING obviously happened. Kobe and his lawyer need to see how the DA is going to play it and how strong the evidence against him is. 

Kobe totally innocent? I'm afraid I'm moving towards the - NOT A CHANCE end of the spectrum.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Heres what the news networks are saying about the lawyer GB.
> ...


Utterly innocent went out the window when word of "physical evidence" came to play. The kicker is whether it was mutual or forced.

If it 'just goes away' the league should do it's own investigation. And that DA should be strung up for dereliction of duty.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...








They seem pretty happy, weLL KoBe does at Least...jk...


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> Utterly innocent went out the window when word of "physical evidence" came to play. The kicker is whether it was mutual or forced.
> ...


I completely agree with what you're saying although its technically out of the DAs hands if they make a deal. He could still move forward with the prosecution, but having her as an unwilling witness will pretty much assure him of losing the case anyway. He should be strung up though if that is the real reason behind all these delays. 

As for Kobe, yeah, its unlikely he'll do time. I mean, whose going to reject millions in a settlement? If the evidence is strong Kobe pretty much has to give her the farm to get out or risk what - 5 years in prison? I'll also go out on the limb and say he'll take a HUGE endorsement hit unless he is exonerated. Doing a deal won't count. Maybe he can keep Nike doing a deal, but I doubt Sprite and McDonalds stay on board.

Do we have any lawyers here who might weigh in? Tom Boerwinkle? Can't the woman move forward with the criminal prosecution and still follow up with the civil suit afterwards? Can't she just do the civil suit if she wanted - although a criminal prosecution in hand would make the civil suit a slam dunk? From the victims standpoint aren't the reasons for taking a settlement to simply avoid going through the whole process AND risking that Kobe beats the rap? 

And finally, if YOU were Kobe Bryant how much would you offer in a settlement to make this go away? What is the most money you would offer up before you would take your chances in a criminal proceeding and then a civil suit? And what do you think is going to happen to his endorsement deals based on where we're at?


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Do we have any lawyers here who might weigh in? Tom Boerwinkle? Can't the woman move forward with the criminal prosecution and still follow up with the civil suit afterwards? Can't she just do the civil suit if she wanted - although a criminal prosecution in hand would make the civil suit a slam dunk? From the victims standpoint aren't the reasons for taking a settlement to simply avoid going through the whole process AND risking that Kobe beats the rap?


I'm no lawyer (so why am I responding?) but I believe in the OJ case the criminal prosecution was followed by a civil suit. 

And in the Michael Jackson case I believe they just did a civil suit. Look how guilty Michael Jackson looks for settling on a civil suit. 

I would imagine if there is any sort of trial or Kobe pays this girl off - basically *if* he looks guilty then his endorsements would suffer. People have been kicked off soft drink deals for far less.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Obviously, I don't know the full facts of the case, but regarding the situation, and considering that the girl is an alleged basketball groupie, I tend to think what's happening would roughly fall under two different scenarios:

1. The girl is just trying to use this as a mechanism to gain fame and status, and that she seduced Kobe with the intention of something like this happening. If that is the case, then Kobe probably does not deserve to suffer any sort of formal criminal punishment, although his infidelity definitely isn't commendable.

2. It was Kobe who initiated the seduction, and used his fame to manipulate an impressionable young girl. This in itself is not a crime, but if Kobe did abuse, or even rape the girl, then Kobe should get whatever punishment he deserves. Also, if this is indeed what happened, I wouldn't be surprised if there are other girls that he has done this too before.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rosenthall</b>!
> Obviously, I don't know the full facts of the case, but regarding the situation, and considering that the girl is an alleged basketball groupie, I tend to think what's happening would roughly fall under two different scenarios:
> 
> 1. The girl is just trying to use this as a mechanism to gain fame and status, and that she seduced Kobe with the intention of something like this happening. If that is the case, then Kobe probably does not deserve to suffer any sort of formal criminal punishment, although his infidelity definitely isn't commendable.
> ...


The interesting thing about this groupie allegation is its made by unspecified players and there is absolutely no foundation offered whatsoever to support it. Again, it sounds like mudslinging to defend one of their own.

Based on the timeline, how could this young woman seduce Kobe? He's the married guy. He's got the bodyguards. He's got the fame and fortune to protect. I definitely think he seduced her - especially in such a short timeframe.

Were there others? Earlier in the thread I commented on the views of a FL radio host who did 10 years in LA. He says that there are in fact many other young woman Kobe has had relations with (in spite of his marriage). 

I find this sort of interesting. How many people would you say would act "differently" around celebrities? I've had by-chance run-ins with Patrick Ewing, Rex Chapman, Stacey King, James Edwards, John Salley, Bo Jackson, Mark Grace along with a few soap celebrities. In each case I talked with the person for just a few minutes. But in recollecting these instances I recall each time getting more enthusiastic or upbeat realizing who it was and chatting with them even briefly. I'm no groupie and I've never sought an autograph and never will. But I do enjoy talking to those who have celebrity. Theres just something about it (or at least there used to be). So how hard is it to believe that this woman at a whopping 19 years of age was excited, maybe overcome by the thought of being in Kobe's presence? As a guy, don't we all know what our reactions might be to a pretty(?) young woman who perks up just because they are with us? And what if that guy thinks he can take advantage of that sort of situation? Sounds like the basis for getting where we are today. But to think this is consensual (and they're now saying it was 20 minutes) is a pretty damn big leap for me to make right now. The woman has had some pretty tough times lately from the sounds of it and meeting a world renown celebrity was probably going to be a real highlight for her. I guess we see how that turned out. My rant was just to try to get you to see from the victims eyes what MIGHT have happened.

If I was Kobe, I'd say look the woman came upstairs and brought me some whatever. She seemed real enthusiastic and asked me about what brought me to the area, blah, blah, blah. I told her I had to get going because I had an appointment tomorrow and she left. Nothing happened. 

Don't need no stinkin' lawyers and no vow of silence to protect that innocent storyline. I mean, why wouldn't Kobe have ANYBODY in his posse there to back up his story? Whats the point of a posse then, er I mean bodyguards?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> The interesting thing about this groupie allegation is its made by unspecified players and there is absolutely no foundation offered whatsoever to support it. Again, it sounds like mudslinging to defend one of their own.
> ...


Interesting quote by Gary Payton last night:

"*He made one little mistake...he'll be back on the court scoring 30 next season*"

Can't remember the link.










Is Laura Flynn Boyle the skinniest woman alive or what?


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> Interesting quote by Gary Payton last night:
> ...


My opinion of Payton just went down. Hmmm, what was he charged with in Toronto this year?

Heres a real funny one. http://www.latimes.com/sports/ Their sports homepage has plenty of Clipper references and only 1 Laker---a pic of Kobe at the Espy's. You can go to the Lakers section and find articles, but talk about burying a story. Since when did the Clippers rate above the Lakers no matter what they had going on?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Looks like a convict:


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> Looks like a convict:


Why? How?


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Why? How?


Getting rid of all his hair samples for DNA testing.


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## Coyat (Jun 18, 2003)

> Looks like a convict:


Looks like Kobe to me..:uhoh:


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> The equalizer to that apparently GB is a weekend program on MSNBC or FOX last weekend (can't remember which) that had as one of its guests a sports radio host from FLA. He also did 10 years previously in LA so he purports to know something about Bryant. He says unabashedly that Kobe likes the young girls, has had many a previous daliance AND get this --- he maintains Kobe previously knew this woman. He maintains Kobe has an unknown life similar to Jordan during his heyday. Now who knows if any of this is true but its no better or worse than the unspecified NBA players trying to muck it up in the statement quoted above. The news services have reported today some conflicting reports that the woman was shaken but not hysterical when she came downstairs. I suspect it will be easy for Kobe's lawyer to get all sorts of contradictory stories going to help confuse the case and get him cleared DNA or not. If he's innocent he deserves to be fully exonerated. If he's guilty he deserves to rot as you have suggested. I just hope the celebrity powers can be stripped away as well and justice can actually get served.


I wouldn't say that Kobe likes young girls because he is young himself. But that rumour of him being a "playa" has existed for years in the underground. Many people just don't want to believe it because the companies that Kobe endorses have marketed him as an angelic person. Whether those rumours are true or not I do not know but I have heard stuff like Kobe actually cheated on his real girlfriend with Vanessa Laine. She got pregnant and they got married and Kobe did not tell his "real" girlfriend whose name I will not disclose because it is a rumour and might not be true. Like MJ, Kobe seems to live a "secret" life people do not know about. Hopefully he has not sexually assaulted this women but the evidence looks very bad right now as a poster on the LA board has revealed that there could be evidence of semen and a tape in which Kobe supposedly admitted he basically did it. As a Laker supporter and a fan of Kobe I hope that the sexually assault allegations are not true but it would not surprise me if he did commit adultery. Sexual assault is another matter.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

_But local lawyers predict Hurlbert, who originally had expected to make a decision last week, will file at least minor charges.

"He probably waited so long because he wanted to make sure that he could prove something beyond a reasonable doubt," said Jim Fahrenholtz, a prominent Eagle attorney.

"He won't file charges if he can't prove anything. But if he doesn't file anything, he would have a lot of explaining to do."
_

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/6328096.htm


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

I dont care what evidence they have, I have a feeling that there is no way in hell Kobe will be charged... If they have _SO MUCH_ evidence, Kobe woulda been charged already... If he does get charged he isnt gonna get convicted no matter whether he did it or not. As sad as it is, in this situation, Kobe=OJ. He is gonna get off cause he is Kobe Bryant, it just doesnt matter if you do the crime or not anymore. If you are a celeberty you will be able to do whatever you want, i.e. leave the state of Colorado to go to the ****ing ESPYs. Man, if I commited a crime, I would have one of them little ankle things on and not allowed out of the ****ing penetentiary and Kobe gets to leave the ****ing state! Not to mention, Kobe will get off for whatever crime he did or did not commit because he is famous. On the other hand, if I commited a crime, ****, I would be convicted almost before I got to the court room... Its a cynical way to look at it, but its the truth. Kobe is not getting charged, and if he does on that off chance, he will not be convicted because he is Kobe ****ing Bryant.

Just FYI: Masked profanity is a violation of the BBB.net guidelines. I'm not super strict on it (as you all have probably noticed), but this is a little extreme.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say that Kobe likes young girls because he is young himself. But that rumour of him being a "playa" has existed for years in the underground. Many people just don't want to believe it because the companies that Kobe endorses have marketed him as an angelic person. Whether those rumours are true or not I do not know but I have heard stuff like Kobe actually cheated on his real girlfriend with Vanessa Laine. She got pregnant and they got married and Kobe did not tell his "real" girlfriend whose name I will not disclose because it is a rumour and might not be true. Like MJ, Kobe seems to live a "secret" life people do not know about. Hopefully he has not sexually assaulted this women but the evidence looks very bad right now as a poster on the LA board has revealed that there could be evidence of semen and a tape in which Kobe supposedly admitted he basically did it. As a Laker supporter and a fan of Kobe I hope that the sexually assault allegations are not true but it would not surprise me if he did commit adultery. Sexual assault is another matter.


Wow, a tape would be quite intriguing. Not only for its content, but who in fact turned on him. That said, I'd be SHOCKED if that were true. The stuff you're talking about with the secret life is exactly what this radio host was talking about. After MJ, none of us should be surprised with the double life.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>krob</b>!
> I dont care what evidence they have, I have a feeling that there is no way in hell Kobe will be charged... If they have _SO MUCH_ evidence, Kobe woulda been charged already... If he does get charged he isnt gonna get convicted no matter whether he did it or not. As sad as it is, in this situation, Kobe=OJ. He is gonna get off cause he is Kobe Bryant, it just doesnt matter if you do the crime or not anymore. If you are a celeberty you will be able to do whatever you want, i.e. leave the state of Colorado to go to the ****ing ESPYs. Man, if I commited a crime, I would have one of them little ankle things on and not allowed out of the ****ing penetentiary and Kobe gets to leave the ****ing state! Not to mention, Kobe will get off for whatever crime he did or did not commit because he is famous. On the other hand, if I commited a crime, ****, I would be convicted almost before I got to the court room... Its a cynical way to look at it, but its the truth. Kobe is not getting charged, and if he does on that off chance, he will not be convicted because he is Kobe ****ing Bryant.


It is indeed a very sad indictment on our legal system, but its just a matter of fact that celebrity and money will allow you to circumvent the wheels of justice. Yes, the common man would probably already be getting fitted for his pinstripe jumpsuit.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

Decision is in. 

Press conference scheduled for Friday 5pm eastern.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>krob</b>!
> I dont care what evidence they have, I have a feeling that there is no way in hell Kobe will be charged... If they have _SO MUCH_ evidence, Kobe woulda been charged already... If he does get charged he isnt gonna get convicted no matter whether he did it or not. As sad as it is, in this situation, Kobe=OJ. He is gonna get off cause he is Kobe Bryant, it just doesnt matter if you do the crime or not anymore. If you are a celeberty you will be able to do whatever you want, i.e. leave the state of Colorado to go to the ****ing ESPYs. Man, if I commited a crime, I would have one of them little ankle things on and not allowed out of the ****ing penetentiary and Kobe gets to leave the ****ing state! Not to mention, Kobe will get off for whatever crime he did or did not commit because he is famous. On the other hand, if I commited a crime, ****, I would be convicted almost before I got to the court room... Its a cynical way to look at it, but its the truth. Kobe is not getting charged, and if he does on that off chance, he will not be convicted because he is Kobe ****ing Bryant.


On the other hand, if you were in this position, there would not be all this press coverage *before any charges were filed* smearing your name and ruining your life.

Please remember, folks, if Kobe were Joe Public he'd be free to do as he pleases -- there are no charges yet! After 5:00pm, if charges are brought, then you can complain about your own hypothetical mistreatment. As it stands now, the only person being mistreated is Kobe. If he's not proven guilty in trial, then a lot of people are gonna have a lot of splainin to do.

So keep your ******* feelings of self-pity to yourself until someone is actually convicted, or at least charged with a crime. ****. ****! ******, ****, ******-*******! @$^%#(*&^%*@%!


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> Many people just don't want to believe it because the companies that Kobe endorses have marketed him as an angelic person.


Actually, Kobe has marketed himself as an angelic person. How many times has he said on MTV's Diary or in a post-wedding interview "Hands off, Ladies. I'm off the market. Blah Blah Blah"

Not to be notpicky but none of the other guys say stuff like that. Most of them know the deal and have wives and girlfriends, etc. Can you see Gary Payton saying on Cribs "Here's my wife - hands off the Glove. I'm off the market." Kobe had set himself up to be a focused athlete who didn't seem to fall into any stereotypes so why would he fall under the groupie stereotype? I was even convinced that if any NBA player were faithful that it might be him. 

Even if he just slept with this girl and it wasn't rape - he's still a loser for pushing out his loyalty image so aggressively and not backing it up. Much like MJ is a loser for playing up his family man image when he was a total pig. 

If you have extramarital affairs - just shut up about how loyal you are. Makes you a liar.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> Last night at the Espy's:


Kobe's an idiot. His wife is beautiful.

It's like, why would Hugh Grant cheat on ELIZABETH HURLEY? Are you BLIND? Was that prostitute the most beautiful woman in the entire planet?

I think that's the only thing that I can say about Kobe. 

What an idiot.


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> On the other hand, if you were in this position, there would not be all this press coverage *before any charges were filed* smearing your name and ruining your life.
> ...


No, If I or any other non-famous person had been taken into custody, we would not get the treatment that Kobe has gotten. We would not be able to leave the area like Kobe has been able to. Granted you are right, there would not be this much national news coverage... But you are wrong in assume there would be so much less... There would not be national news coverage, but there would be regional news coverage... For example, since I am from Illinois, the coverage would encompass Iowa Wisconsin, Indiana, and Mizzou, not to mention Illinois. And I really dont think you understood what I was saying. All I was saying in my previous post was that Kobe would not be charged b/c he is famous, whether he did it or not. So before you get self-rightous and holy, why dont you actually read what I said and try to understand it.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> 
> 
> Kobe's an idiot. His wife is beautiful.
> ...


And thats not even a really good picture...

You're right.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> 
> 
> Kobe's an idiot. His wife is beautiful.
> ...


Come on, you cant call him an idiot already, you dont know if he did anything. If he did, I agree he's an idiot, but until then...

I'm a big Kobe-hater myself, but you at least have to be fair in your judgment:yes:


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Come on, you cant call him an idiot already, you dont know if he did anything. If he did, I agree he's an idiot, but until then...
> ...


Actually Hobo, you can call him an idiot. Supposedly this is why Kobe and his peers have their posses/bodyguards. To protect the wallet from frivolous claims, accusations, etc. Why in the world would Kobe expose himself to a 19 year old woman without benefit of anyone in his entourage? Um, shouldn't the posse be taking care of things for the guy? If he needs something, shouldn't they call down to get it and then receive it? Just look at the account of what happened in the cab. Kobe sat in the back with a towel over his head and his posse was in full swing making arrangements, etc. No, Kobe is an idiot. He either stupidly or willingly put himself in a situation where he was vulnerable. 

As far as the other post about whether or not Kobe was being treated like you or I would have been. The answer there is likely yes and no. I'm not sold that the sheriff didn't know of him and I believe that might have been the real reason he rushed to book him. The only other reason I can think of is that the sheriff was pizzed off that Kobe and the DA had agreed to do it AFTER the 4th of July weekend. Perhaps the sheriff didn't like that cavalier approach to it - lets go enjoy the holiday weekend and then we'll do'er on Monday. But as far as this two week wait and meticulous scrutiny of the evidence...I say theres no way the normal guy gets this wait and see approach. As soon as the DA sees something he can charge you with its a go. The fact that he is dealing with a celebrity is making him extra cautious in my opinion.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I think it's going to come out that the Sheriff went for the arrest warrant to tie the DA's hands.

I won't say it's politics--but thats what I think. He wanted to make sure the DA did what _he thought_ should should be done.

Is the DA an elected official? If so, thats even more pressure.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> I think it's going to come out that the Sheriff went for the arrest warrant to tie the DA's hands.
> 
> I won't say it's politics--but thats what I think. He wanted to make sure the DA did what _he thought_ should should be done.
> ...


I had thought that very same thing GB which, is why I also thought the Sheriff really knew who Kobe was. Perhaps he didn't when the incident was initially reported (making him correct), but he certainly had to know by the time he was going after that arrest warrant. C'mon, the Sheriff didn't handle this on his own so would he really suggest to us that NOBODY on his staff knew who Kobe was? Thats just not reality no matter which mountain you call home. :laugh: I admit to even wondering if it was purely celebrity or even possible racisim that influenced the Sheriff's decision to "tie the DA's hands". I can almost imagine an expletive filled tirade the Sheriff had about "no such and such coming in here and doing that to his people", as they were getting ready to go for the warrant.

I believe Sheriff's and District Attorney's are always elected regardless of locale.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> One source told NEWSWEEK Bryant’s wife has kicked him out. Whether that’s true or not, we can confirm that Bryant, his wife and his accuser will not enjoy the rest of the summer.


What I dont understand about this is, how the hell is she going to kick him out? She could take her stuff and leave, if I was Kobe I wouldb't go anywhere.

BTW, this couldn't of been true because they were at the ESPY together the other night, I just wanted to snap a little.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

* --- Breaking News --- *

FOX NEWS is reporting according to unidentified sources KOBE BRYANT WILL BE CHARGED.

It looks like he will be charged with FELONY SEXUAL ASSAULT (the revised CO statute has no misdemeanors for this)

The maximum sentence is FORTY-EIGHT YEARS


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

In CO simple assault, not sexual assault is a misdemeanor. If that were the charge he would get off with no time given he has no previous record. However, it looks as though it will be the felony that will get charged.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> * --- Breaking News --- *
> 
> FOX NEWS is reporting according to unidentified sources KOBE BRYANT WILL BE CHARGED.
> ...


Their source is a Colorado reporter.

I'm interested in the evidence, and in his defense teams meeting with the press an hour later.


I wonder if the nation will be polarized the way it was in the OJ trial. 

Are plea bargains common? Questions, questions.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

they are going to charge Kobe!! Class three felony. Alledged Intrusion and submission with physical force. Rape.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

FOUR YEARS TO LIFE IF GUILTY


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

CNN:



> Bryant was charged with one count of sexual assault, a class three felony. If convicted, Bryant could serve four years to life in prison or 20 years to life on probation, Hurlbert said.



They'll plead to probation or he'll fight and win.

The DA said it was a 'tough'decision.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

if he is on probation, that still means his career is over. Wont he be restricted to just the state of california? I dont know. i need someone to tell me.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Basically the DA said:

* Penetration was involved
* There is physical and testimonial evidence

ESPN is reading a statement from Kobe's wife saying that he committed adultery but she does not believe he committed a crime.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> CNN:
> 
> 
> ...


Any plea arrangement would require he register as a Sex Offender.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

I doubt there will be a plea bargain in a class 3 felony case. That's a serious charge, it's the same thing as rape. Even if he plea bargained, depending on how vicious the assault was, I would guess that he still would probably serve time in jail. Assuming he actually did it and the evidence is strong, and barring any major mistakes in the case, Kobe is going to jail. You don't get off with probabtion for raping someone.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> Colorado.
> ...


Means of living? The dude is a multimillionaire and set for the rest of his life. That isn't good enough of an argument to be able to play again.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> Basically the DA said:
> 
> * Penetration was involved
> ...


How humiliating is that for her?

I'd NEVER...:upset:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

"One count" doesn't mean anything. That just means he was accused of only one sexual assault. 

You wouldn't say "only one count of murder" is easier to get around than two. It's a serious charge.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> "One count" doesn't mean anything. That just means he was accused of only one sexual assault.
> 
> You wouldn't say "only one count of murder" is easier to get around than two. It's a serious charge.


Actually--I meant where's the imprisonment/kidnapping charge that was rumored to come down too.

I understand what one count means. Perhaps I should have said charge.  

Intresting trial coming. February before it starts?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Kobe Statement:



> I am innocent of the charges filed today,” Bryant said in a statement released by his attorney. “I did not assault the woman who is accusing me.
> “I made the mistake of adultery. I have to answer to my wife and my God for my actions that night and I pray that both will forgive me.
> “Nothing that happened June 30 was against the will of the woman who now falsely accuses me.”


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> ESPN is reading a statement from Kobe's wife saying that he committed adultery but she does not believe he committed a crime.


He's not a criminal - just an *******.

Great. :uhoh:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

OK, bottom line is that I think a lot of this is going to turn on the physical evidence. Since both sides admit that intercourse took place, the the key evidence will be:

* Is there evidence of forcible sex- bruising, bleeding, etc.
* Is there any outside evidence from people? Did the people in the hotel rooms next to Kobe's hear/see anything?
* Are their any recorded (phone conversations, etc.) admissions or incriminating evidence.


<HR>

Everyone; as the CM here, I can see a lot of potential for this issue being a long and sometimes passionate source of discussion over the next several months. I want everyone to feel they can come forward and contribute to the discussion, but I'm just asking everyone to keep some sense about them when doing so. This is going to go on for a long time and some people are going to get nuts about it. But it is related to basketball and thus is fair game. What I'm asking is just that people don't rush to judgement one way or the other and try to distinguish between assumptions we are making and facts we know. In the final analysis this is an issue that's out of any of our hands. No matter what happens, don't take it as the end of the world.... after all, he doesn't play for the Bulls (bad attempt at humor there  ).


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually--I meant where's the imprisonment/kidnapping charge that was rumored to come down too.
> ...


Ouch, I hadn't heard that speculation...


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> He's not a criminal - just an *******.
> ...


EGREGIOUS MORON :laugh: 

Thats what they called him on Fox News comparing him to what Mark Chamura did.


BTW, Bryant has now acknowledged it was CONSENSUAL SEX! 

Isn't that hilarious. What a LOW-LIFE. 

Nothing happened, you know me better than that, blah, blah, blah.

What a loser.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

From a general perspective (rather than having anything to do with the charges themselves), it does nothing to support him in the court of public opinion that he's already changed his story from "nothing happened" to "we had sex".


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> * Are their any recorded (phone conversations, etc.) admissions or incriminating evidence.


Mike, I guess somebody mentioned this on the NBA board. What have you heard about this?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Ouch, I hadn't heard that speculation...


_In the past two weeks, Hurlbert has evaluated crime lab evidence and witness statements and interviewed Bryant's accuser, a longtime local resident who said the 24-year-old Laker star assaulted her and *held her against her will *in a room at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera in Edwards on the night of June 30.
_

Kobe:

_"I have so much to live for, and not just the contracts or money," the statement went on. "I will fight for [my family]."_

His wife:

_"I know my husband has made a mistake, the mistake of adultery, and we will have to deal with that in our marriage. I know he did not commit a crime," Vanessa's statement read._

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-071803kobe_lat,1,979346.story?coll=la-headlines-sports


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## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> He's not a criminal - just an *******.
> 
> Great. :uhoh:


just curious, Liz, and not judging: is he an ******* because he committed adultery, or because he's got his wife and everyone around him spinning what may have happened?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

That wont do him any favors now. The fact he denied everything and now admits to having sex with her. Maybe his first statement he meant to say, i didnt rape her, instead of having no sex with her. In that case then his statement hasnt changed.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

So...can Karl Malone, Shaquille Oneal, and Gary Payton win a ring?


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> From a general perspective (rather than having anything to do with the charges themselves), it does nothing to support him in the court of public opinion that he's already changed his story from "nothing happened" to "we had sex".


Agreed. 

He is going to make them prove every last thing. He could have come out with the facts right away and said the woman came on to him, one thing lead to another, and they had sex. It did get a little physical, but we were both enjoying it. 

To me, it would be a lot harder for the DA to prove it under those circumstances. But he's on the books as a liar and thats damaging to me. 

I think the days of that "protecting the wife" sham died with Bill Clinton. And if he was protecting the wife, how come a half hour after charges are leveled, his wife is on record standing behind her man? Um, so what was the point of "protecting her" if he already told her? laugh: 

Nah, I say he's guilty as sin.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Mike, I guess somebody mentioned this on the NBA board. What have you heard about this?


Just what you could have read on the NBA board. I don't have any inside sources, just a year of law school (I wised up and transfered to an economics Ph.D. program).

In any case, those types of evidence I listed, I think are the important ones because they're pretty much the only ones that can cut through the he said/she said problem.

If it's just testimony of Kobe vs. the girl, and none of those external pieces of evidence exist, it'll be fairly difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The more of those pieces of evidence exist, the more unreasonable it becomes to think no assault occurred. We'll just have to wait and see.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

adultery is bad enough. He was such a role model to many young people world wide. Not just in LA. Even is he is innocent of Rape, adultery is bad enough.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

"I am innocent of the charges filed today. I did not assault the woman who is accusing me," Bryant said in the statement. "I made the mistake of adultery. I have to answer to my wife and my God for my actions that night and I pray that both will forgive me. ... Nothing that happened June 30th was against the will of the woman who now falsely accuses me."

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0718/1582691.html

So he's claiming it was consentual. So what then caused her to file charges? Was this a setup? If so it seems to have been very poorly planned. Where are _her_ witnesses?

What he wants it to boil down to is a case of his word and his "entourage" against hers. Sounds like it's all going to be based on the physical evidence. 

In a brief interview with the Los Angeles Times last week, Bryant said he "would never do something like that.'' 

I wonder where Bryant draws the line morally? Adultry is fine. Cheating on his wife and child is morally permissable. But imposing himself sexually on an unwilling woman is something he'd never consider, right? You might want to ask Mike Tyson if he mentally confronted his moral dilemma just before he forced himself on his victim. No doubt there are probably a few people walking around this planet who can't conceive of anyone not wanting to have the honor of sexually pleasing them. To these folks, "no" simply means "more." I think Mr. Bryant may find out shortly that he's not _everybody's hero_.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> So...can Karl Malone, Shaquille Oneal, and Gary Payton win a ring?


I think they can, but they wont get home court advantage. Something to keep in mind, David Stern has yet to come up with a punishment or ruling on Webber. He is suppose to decide what to do about him.

If Webber is not punished too bad, then i still see the kings as the team to beat in the west since Kobe is in for a long wait.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

Fox interviewed the LA "fan in the street". Talk about knotheads. One guy went so far as to say he could look past the assault because the Lakers have a chance to win the ring and set a record this year.

Nice indictment of humanity, morals and love for they fellow man. Just think, he'd probably be on the jury if it were in LA.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

The Complaint 

ESPN is reporting that three of the officers on the witness list are with a *Drug task force*


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> Talk about Just think, he'd probably be on the jury if it were in LA.


If the prosecutors aren't better than that, we're ALL in trouble.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

was she drugged? She is a 19 year old cheerleader


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> The Complaint
> 
> ESPN is reporting that three of the officers on the witness list are with a *Drug task force*


How'd the smokinggun get that?

Ok...were the DTF investigating him, or did they respond to the complaint?


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> I wonder where Bryant draws the line morally? Adultry is fine. Cheating on his wife and child is morally permissable. But imposing himself sexually on an unwilling woman is something he'd never consider, right? You might want to ask Mike Tyson if he mentally confronted his moral dilemma just before he forced himself on his victim. No doubt there are probably a few people walking around this planet who can't conceive of anyone not wanting to have the honor of sexually pleasing them. To these folks, "no" simply means "more." I think Mr. Bryant may find out shortly that he's not _everybody's hero_.


I agree. Kobe seems to have handled this in a text-book fashion to previous pro athletes, a previous president, etc. I think he should have come out with the consensual story from day one. We'll see if that old world approach still works though. I actually think the world is getting more enlightened. Kobe could just be in for the fight of his life.


----------



## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>thunderspirit</b>!
> 
> just curious, Liz, and not judging: is he an ******* because he committed adultery, or because he's got his wife and everyone around him spinning what may have happened?


The adultery thing. Not that I'm naive enough to think celebrities don't commit adultery. It's the fact that he went out of his way to say "hands off, Ladies. I'm a one woman man, etc." on his MTV Diary and things like that. Taking the extra step to seem like Mr. Perfect when he's just as slimey as any other adultery commiting fool.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I think they were investigators assigned to assist. This isn't a court witness list. 










Site slow for anyone else? All other sites I visit are speedy.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> was she drugged? She is a 19 year old cheerleader


I have no idea... it was strange the way they mentioned it on ESPN, but they didn't really tie it to the facts of the case. One would think there would be additional charges if it were simply a case of illegal drugs being present in the room.

If it's drugs in her system, it probably makes consensual sex more believable. If it's in his but not hers probably the opposite. Of course, that's speculation.

Another possibility is there is no illegal drugs at all and the "drug expert" witness(es) will be used to describe the effects (if any) of the drugs Kobe was given as follow up from his surgery. Given that he had surgery that afternoon, I wouldn't be surprised if he was given several medications. It remains to be seen what effect those would have, if present, but it's something I hadn't considered before.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

It took the talking heads at Fox less than a half an hour to offer up the "rich black man...one of the most white communities in the state...railroaded" hypothesis. Another suggested there would have to be a change of venue because half the jury "would have to be black".

Hmmm, Rupert Murdock still owns the Dodgers doesn't he? Is he close with Buss? :laugh:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> I have no idea... it was strange the way they mentioned it on ESPN, but they didn't really tie it to the facts of the case. One would think there would be additional charges if it were simply a case of illegal drugs being present in the room.
> ...


Thats right. I forgot that Kobe did have his knee operated on.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> Site slow for anyone else? All other sites I visit are speedy.


Incredibly slow. Was like that for about a half hour yesterday. Gotta convince BCH.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Interesting. Whoever wrote the Foxnews.com story is a fan:



> He is by most accounts a quiet man who prefers dinner with a few friends to joining teammates for a night on the town.
> ---
> Along with his determination, Bryant has also shown class, something many fans feel are missing from other NBA stars.


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## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> The adultery thing. Not that I'm naive enough to think celebrities don't commit adultery. It's the fact that he went out of his way to say "hands off, Ladies. I'm a one woman man, etc." on his MTV Diary and things like that. Taking the extra step to seem like Mr. Perfect when he's just as slimey as any other adultery commiting fool.


ok, thanx. just wanted to know.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> I have no idea... it was strange the way they mentioned it on ESPN, but they didn't really tie it to the facts of the case. One would think there would be additional charges if it were simply a case of illegal drugs being present in the room.
> ...


I thought his surgery was the following day and he was late for the appointment?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Well, I'm usually a news nut (three newspapers on my desk right now) but this is the kind of thing thats going to make me turn it off. Until it's unsealed, it's just going to be endless speculation. 


BASKETBALL: 

Will he play *any* of the season, or will he be out defending himself? What do you think?


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

Boy ESPN is defending their man, aren't they?

"We have to remember, these are just charges".

WHAT!

"this is just adultery"

WHAT!

how quickly we move from you know me i wouldn't do this to just charges, just adultery.

give me a break.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> Well, I'm usually a news nut (three newspapers on my desk right now) but this is the kind of thing thats going to make me turn it off. Until it's unsealed, it's just going to be endless speculation.
> 
> 
> ...


A sports media guy on Fox painted a pretty ugly picture of demonstrators and supporters outside every stadium for every game he plays in this year.

Malone said he'll stick by his man because he's a teammate (even if only for a few days) but I wonder what Malone and Payton really think of their decision now.

You think they probably could care less? Malone wants to stick by him and didn't Payton just blow it off and say he'll be scoring 30 a night? They did after all know this could be coming and they still signed...


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> So...can Karl Malone, Shaquille Oneal, and Gary Payton win a ring?


Yeah

More shot attempts and enhanced roles for Mailman and Glove 

No more Shaq/Kobe cold war / lovefest /coldwar ...oh duh we better get our act together now that we have created enough artificial drama for the media etc etc 

Chemistry just took a boost on the Lakeshow

Lucky Janerro Pargo has been tearing up the summer leagues


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah
> ...


Not sure I agree. Thats a lot of baggage to be following them around before and after every game. Jackson may be great at handling circuses but the likes of this one has never been known. It was going to be off the charts just having the four superstars on the team. I can't even begin to imagine how huge it may get because of this.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Payton just blow it off and say he'll be scoring 30 a night? They did after all know this could be coming and they still signed...


Guess Glove knows first hand after he , Sam Cassell and Jason Caffey found themselves in an offcourt hoo ha last year surrounding attempts to procure some lady company at a club that was not entirely welcomed... particularly by one of the young lady's boyfriends who took issue with them only to be assaulted by the 3 sh_theads.

Sam and Glove went out and smoked up the rest of the season


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

GB, someone on espn said a while ago that he cant see the judge letting kobe play before or during the trial.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Not sure I agree. Thats a lot of baggage to be following them around before and after every game. Jackson may be great at handling circuses but the likes of this one has never been known. It was going to be off the charts just having the four superstars on the team. I can't even begin to imagine how huge it may get because of this.


Yeah I agree. I was just being facetious - hence my Jannero Pargo joke

Mike Penberthy anyone


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## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> Guess Glove knows first hand after he , Sam Cassell and Jason Caffey found themselves in an offcourt hoo ha last year surrounding attempts to procure some lady company at a club that was not entirely welcomed... particularly by one of the young lady's boyfriends who took issue with them only to be assaulted by the 3 sh_theads.
> ...


actually, i thought smoking up the rest of the season was in the job description for Damon Stoudemire and the rest of the JailBlazers.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Who really knows?

And more to the point who will ever really know?

Two people - Kobe Bryant and the alleged victim 

A lot of this "celebrity sex" perhaps is just about power. The "invinceability"/ because I can" factor.

And if it is about power - the "because I can" factor then the line can quite easily be crossed. Consequently the crime of rape can be triggered all too easily in these circumstances - perhaps a lot more easily for men of ego who need to save face and are not used to being rebuffed.

And if these are the circumstances then they are truly revolting and beneath contempt - *and Kobe will deserve everything that he gets . *No victim should ever have to endure the experience of this which stays with you long after the physical crime is committed.

On the other hand.... cometh the moment cometh the man ( only for the woman acting in a consensual manner to use such physical evidence later under the auspieces of something completely different when the opportunity for paydirt presents itself )

Her own peers have quoted /paraphrased her as saying *she always wanted to be famous. *

Well ready or not young lady young lady here it is.

If it was a set up who is to say that she put it on Kobe for a bit of Sadomasochistic rumpo pumpo which she could conveniently use for further physical evidence. Or, she or one of her accomplices could have whooped her after she and Kobe had had sex.

For me.. I don't know whether I will be able to form an opinion on guilt or innocence until the aftermath of the trial ..and how this woman behaves in this period.

If she cashes in on her media celebrity in an inappropriate way (and this will be clear to rational people as to what constitutes such inappropriate behaviour) then I would be inclined to believe it a stitch up with the more obvious crime committed by Kobe to be one of poor judgement and ill disclipline


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>thunderspirit</b>!
> 
> actually, i thought smoking up the rest of the season was in the job description for Damon Stoudemire and the rest of the JailBlazers.


Ha

Or 70% of the NBA if you believe that wise old sage Charles Oakley


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Who really knows?
> 
> And more to the point who will ever really know?
> ...


She is said to come from a good family. Hopefully that means she is indeed a victim and this is about justice first and reparations second. 

The local folk seemed to laugh off this NBA groupie thing being she is 19 yrs old and 130 miles away from Denver. Just more NBA player spin control if you ask me.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> GB, someone on espn said a while ago that he cant see the judge letting kobe play before or during the trial.


Unless he is denied bond (I'm assuming there would be a new bond hearing after he's arraigned), I can't imagine how thats even possible. Would it be because its a sexual assault charge? Any word on how it could be possible?


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

Odds Kobe will walk? Some other high profile cases...

Kirby Puckett 
Oct. 18, 2002: Charged with false imprisonment, fifth-degree criminal sexual conduct and fifth-degree assault
April 10, 2003: Found not guilty on all counts 

Jerome Bettis 
Aug. 21, 2002: Accused of sexual assault
Oct. 16, 2002: Prosecutors say Bettis will not be charged 

Darrell Russell 
Feb. 1, 2002: Arrested on suspicion of participating in the gang rape of a woman he dated
Sept. 12, 2002: All charges dropped 

Mike Tyson 
Sept. 26, 2001 and Dec. 28, 2001: Investigated on two separate sexual assault claims
Feb. 21, 2002: Prosecutors announce Tyson will not be charged 

Mark Chmura 
May 15, 2000: Charged with third-degree sexual assault; on June 22, 2000, a child enticement charge was added
Feb. 4, 2001: Found not guilty on both charges 

Len Dykstra 
Oct. 1, 1999: Charged with sexual battery
Nov. 30, 1999: Charges dropped 

Curtis Enis 
May 30, 1998: Named in a sexual assault complaint filed in Irving, Texas
Aug. 17, 1998: Complaint dropped (he was never arrested or charged) 

Juwan Howard and Chris Webber 
April 1998: Accused of sexual assault
May 22, 1998: A grand jury decides not to indict either man; Howard countersued, won $100,000 in damages and donated the award to a rape crisis center in Washington 

Dave Meggett 
Feb. 27, 1998: Charged with sexual assault
June 26, 1998: Charges withdrawn 

Cornelius Bennett 
Sept. 9, 1997: Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor count of sexual misconduct stemming from a May 18, 1997 incident in the Hyatt Regency Buffalo; served 35 days in jail and later received counseling under the NFL's program 

Jake Plummer 
May 28, 1997: Charged with felony sexual abuse
June 27, 1997: Struck a plea bargain and received two years probation; also fined $1,020 and ordered to perform 100 hours of community service 

Michael Irvin and Erik Williams 
Dec. 29, 1996: Accused of aggrevated sexual assault
Jan. 10, 1997: Police say that the accuser had recanted her story and that no charges would be filed 

Jose Mesa 
Dec. 27, 1996: Charged with rape, gross sexual imposition and felonious assault
April 9, 1997: Acquitted of all charges


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

I don't know what's more pathetic...ESPN's attempt to cover the Bryant story like they're CNN with that bimbo Shelly Smith or Bryant's speech to the press about how much he loves his wife.

BTW, what in the world possessed this cocky SOB when he decided to attend the ESPY's a mere two days ago?


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> I don't know what's more pathetic...ESPN's attempt to cover the Bryant story like they're CNN with that bimbo Shelly Smith or Bryant's speech to the press about how much he loves his wife.
> 
> BTW, what in the world possessed this cocky SOB when he decided to attend the ESPY's a mere two days ago?


I must admit to getting a good chuckle at seeing his attempt to sob at that press conference. Plenty of talking heads are saying he had to make this appearance at the press conference to get that ESPY appearance out of peoples minds. 

You are right. He IS a cocky s-o-b. Take a look at the victims friend that keeps doing MSNBC interviews. They showed the victim with face blurred out, but we're talking KIDS. Check out her youth, immaturity, vulnerability. These kids are likely 'young' nineteen year olds growing up 'in the sticks'. Compare that to a 24 year old who grew up in a foreign country, has the fame, celebrity and hundred-millionaire-fortune to go with it, has dealt with the media under intense pressure filled situations, makes a living performing under a high level of pressure, is known to the country on a first name basis and is obviously very worldly. And this guy is the sympathetic figure in this? You have got to be kidding me!

And for the sports fan like that knothead Charles Barkley who only see 'golddigger', where is there proof that the victims intent is exactly that? Has the victim asked for a deal/settlement? And wheres all this NBA groupie crap? 

A funny thing crossed my mind today. They're going to court martial a guy at the academy for having what really amounts to consensual sex because they were too lax in prosecuting sex crimes for umpteen years. They need to make an example out of this guy even though this seems pretty clearly the wrong case to make their example out of. So, what would it take for the government to throw some serious resources at the prosecution of Kobe BEAN Bryant to send the message that professional athletes or famous celebrities are not above the law? Is it time the government makes an example out of one of these guys and who better than the self proclaimed 'big fish'? Doesn't OJ, Ray Lewis, Mark Chamura, etc. say enough? Or is this making an example of someone only reserved for some regular joe at a military academy or some regular joe working 9-5 at a nowhere job?


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> I must admit to getting a good chuckle at seeing his attempt to sob at that press conference. Plenty of talking heads are saying he had to make this appearance at the press conference to get that ESPY appearance out of peoples minds.


Watching Bryant try to fight back the tears, groveling at his wife's feet and then reminding everyone that he's just a man like everyone else is must see viewing for anyone who needs a good laugh. What a sensitive guy! Now its all about his family...ok.
 

BTW, "Bean" better hope that District Attorney Mark Hurlbert isn't related to Tampa Bay football coach Jon Gruden.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> Watching Bryant try to fight back the tears, groveling at his wife's feet and then reminding everyone that he's just a man like everyone else is must see viewing for anyone who needs a good laugh. What a sensitive guy! Now its all about his family...ok.
> ...


Dang! I didn't see that! Hopefully Hurlbert will prove as effective as Gruden was.

I'd give Kobe's performance a 2 out of 4 stars. I thought he started out fairly good although I thought his "just a man like everyone else" wardrobe selection was a poor choice. The early sobbing seemed somewhat effective, but you could see that point where he knew he was past the point he wanted to carry it to and he sort of lost his focus. It dried up and he almost looked disinterested from that point on. I guess nobody liked the bottled water. Wonder if it was from Colorado Springs or something. Everybody seems to be waiting for Bryant to start digging up the trash on his victim. I was kind of wondering if we won't start seeing some more trash surface on Kobe though. Look what happened to Bill Clinton. Before he knew it, his past indiscretions were popping up quicker than phantom Dick Bavetta foul calls.


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## MrWonderful (May 18, 2003)

*Transparent toady award*

So far, I'd have to give Jim Gray the nod for the most slavish defense of kobe. This guy is stripping the teeth off his gears trying to one-up himself with kobe accolades at every opportunity. You can see "improve my access" behind every word.


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## Coyat (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> I don't know what's more pathetic...ESPN's attempt to cover the Bryant story like they're CNN with that bimbo Shelly Smith or Bryant's speech to the press about how much he loves his wife.
> 
> BTW, what in the world possessed this cocky SOB when he decided to attend the ESPY's a mere two days ago?


I heard on ESPN that he showed up at the ESPY's because he thought that there wouldn't be any charges.. but, once the DA informed his attorney, Kobe and his wife (damn she's hot) left the awards show.

Also, I get the feeling that most of you feel like Kobe was acting in his press conference. I sorta disagree because the trembling voice going along with the pauses isnt easy to rehearse. I think the man spoke without a speech in mind. 

Also, I get the feeling that some of the posters in this thread are ready to call Kobe guilty of the charges b4 the trial begins.. I just want to say: he is still innocent untill proven guilty. We'll just wait and see.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Coyat</b>!
> 
> 
> I heard on ESPN that he showed up at the ESPY's because he thought that there wouldn't be any charges.. but, once the DA informed his attorney, Kobe and his wife (damn she's hot) left the awards show.
> ...


Another interpretation might be that he showed up at the ESPY's because he thought he'd gotten away with his crime. He'd still betrayed his family by committing adultery, but to him I guess that's small potatos compared to sexual assault.

As for prejudging him, I'll leave it up to the courts to decide whether he violated the law. But that sure as hell won't prevent me from viewing him as a low class creep for using his notoriety to pleasure himself with a 19 year old hotel employee despite being a husband and a father.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

Lets get real. He's innocent until proven guilty according to our legal system which also says justice is blind. Are you telling me you would be afforded the same opportunities and have the same celebrity advantages Kobe has to beat this wrap? Many a folk have been guilty just unable to be proven guilty. In my book thats not innocent until proven guilty. Thats still guilty. Think OJ. I'm not going to come across as high and mighty and say I'll wait until the trial is over. The court of public opinion is a much different court than the criminal court. Out here he can be and will be judged as the evidence comes into focus. With that said, I'll say he sure looks guilty as sin at this point. As far as his speech every legal talking head concedes the Kobe speech was walked through with his attorneys and was practiced. It would be naive to think otherwise. What it wasn't was scripted. The guy knew what he was supposed to say, he just wasn't reading from a teleprompter or paper. I'm sorry, but this guy has every legal advantage to beat this even though he may very well be guilty, so many folks will never believe him - and rightfully so - even if he is exonerated. Let me suggest a hypothetical and see how that sits. Lets say you, your wife and your young kids live next door to a very popular coach in your town. The guy has plenty of money and he's charged with molesting children. Now the guy admits to being in an inappropriate situation with the children (say alone in his basement), but claims he did not molest them. The guy uses his money to buy the best lawyers in town and that, along with his likable and popular image helps get him found innocent in a trial. So you automatically accept he was innocent? You gonna let your young kids still be with the coach?




> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Another interpretation might be that he showed up at the ESPY's because he thought he'd gotten away with his crime. He'd still betrayed his family by committing adultery, but to him I guess that's small potatos compared to sexual assault.
> 
> As for prejudging him, I'll leave it up to the courts to decide whether he violated the law. But that sure as hell won't prevent me from viewing him as a low class creep for using his notoriety to pleasure himself with a 19 year old hotel employee despite being a husband and a father.


What Kismet said! :yes:


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## Bullsmaniac (Jun 17, 2002)

The new conference made him look more guilty. Does MJ play w/ his mouth when he'son the HOT seat??? Must've missed that because Kobe sure did alot of mouth expressions.

Oh Kobe you should've known that "OBEY YOUR THIRST" is only a Sprite slogan not words you should live by!!!


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullsmaniac</b>!
> The new conference made him look more guilty. Does MJ play w/ his mouth when he'son the HOT seat??? Must've missed that because Kobe sure did alot of mouth expressions.


Does anyone else think Kobe has turned into MJ? I swear he imitates exactly how MJ was in front of the camera and I think he even sounds like him now. The similarity was striking IMO.



> Oh Kobe you should've known that "OBEY YOUR THIRST" is only a Sprite slogan not words you should live by!!!


Hiilarious! :laugh:


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## Bullsmaniac (Jun 17, 2002)

The worst part about all this for Kobe is this was suppose to be the season he took on the entire MJ persona...bald head and all!


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullsmaniac</b>!
> The worst part about all this for Kobe is this was suppose to be the season he took on the entire MJ persona...bald head and all!


Guess the medias picking up on it too... This article is a great read from a guy who is usually in love with the Lakers.

Story 

*
You see, we don't know the real Kobe Bryant. Sure, we know this astonishingly talented basketball player with three NBA titles in his pocket with the Lakers. He bears the mannerisms, size, talent and even the voice timbre of Michael Jordan, reminding us that nobody is irreplaceable. 
*


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

kobe raped her? 90%

they have evident? I don't think so.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ballscientist</b>!
> kobe raped her? 90%
> 
> they have evident? I don't think so.


Help me dude. These two lines aren't very compelling. Are you replying to someone? You have inside information or a theory you'd like to expound upon? Please do tell what it is you are talking about.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

*Get Off of Kobe's Back*

Ok, this Kobe bashing has really gone to far. He has been charged with rape, he hasn't been convicted, and only two people know what really happened right now. People are on here talking about how he is a devil, a *******, slimy, and how he should rot in jail for this. The fact remains is that is that you don't know that he did it. Even if he did commit adultry....why are you personally offended? He did not commit an injustice aganist you, he did aganist his wife. Let her be angry, not you. And let's face it adultry isn't some horrible crime that never happens......chances are you know someone personally that did it, a uncle, a brother, a friend, a president. 

And if we really want to speculate, I'd guess that he's completely innocent. He is a rich, good looking, and wildly famous basketball player. If he wants some action he could probably get it within 20 minutes of idea poping in his head. I've seen it myself, my half-brother was a four year player and two year starter at Notre Dame. He had women throwing themselves at him, hopping that they could get to his room. Hell he could of got me action if I wasn't 10 and he wasnt even the star of the team. Men in those situations can get what they want, without having to resort to such drastic means. Your not a basketball fan, honey? I know 1000 that are.

But, that's neither her nor there, because I don't what happens. Therefore I'll reserve my opinons of what Kobe really is until we find the truth. Spartacus Triumvirate said that Kobe is afforded more priviages I guess because he is rich and famous. That is BS, if I got charged for rape I wouldn't have to worry about million of Americans judging me as a rapist, I wouldn't have to worry about the strong public stereotype of the lustful Black athlete-animal that can't control his penis, and I wouldn't have to deal with the media analysing how non remorseful I looked the day before or how I looked like I was faking tears. 

Funny thing is this comes from a Bulls fan, that as a player hates Kobe's guts because he is a MJ-wannabe, and that had the avatar of Kobe crying for a month. I hate him as a player, but respect him as a man, he said he didn't do it, I'll believe that till .the jury tells me otherwise.


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## Qwerty123 (May 31, 2002)

Does anyone know if Kobe's wife was in Colorado with him the night of the incident? I haven't heard anything about it, but it seems to me that your significant other would be with you the night before undergoing surgery. This in no way is an indictment of her, but maybe if she had been there, this never would have happened.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Transparent toady award*



> Originally posted by <b>MrWonderful</b>!
> So far, I'd have to give Jim Gray the nod for the most slavish defense of kobe. This guy is stripping the teeth off his gears trying to one-up himself with kobe accolades at every opportunity. You can see "improve my access" behind every word.


I've vocally stated that the Jim Grey/Kobe Bryant relationship is getting strikingly -- and creepily -- similar to teh Ahmad Rashad/Michael Jordan circlejerk back in Jordan's heyday.

Grey acts like Kobe's his best friend, like they're old college buddies (yes, I know Kobe didn't go to college) when it's rather obvious he comes off as just a little twerpy tool to everyone except himself.

Sickening.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>theyoungsrm</b>!
> Even if he did commit adultry....why are you personally offended? He did not commit an injustice aganist you, he did aganist his wife.


He did commit an injustice against me. I had to see his ugly smug mug on MTV's Diary talking about how faithful he was. I would say "I don't care for Kobe but he seems like the only guy in the league who wouldn't cheat on his wife." I would actually say that to friends when discussing basketball! How embarassing!!

Now he just seems common. Like all the other athletes. He probably learned to speak Italian so he could say "where are the hookers?" while in Italy.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> He did commit an injustice against me. I had to see his ugly smug mug on MTV's Diary talking about how faithful he was. I would say "I don't care for Kobe but he seems like the only guy in the league who wouldn't cheat on his wife." I would actually say that to friends when discussing basketball! How embarassing!!
> ...


Its sad... but I think going under the assumption that all NBA players cheat on their wives would be the best bet. I'm sure there are a couple that do not.... but you never can tell. I don't know many men that if faced with 1000s of beautiful women throwing themselves at them on a yearly basis would be able to resist. Maybe they could resist for a month... maybe even a year... but certainly not a lifetime.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Its sad... but I think going under the assumption that all NBA players cheat on their wives would be the best bet. I'm sure there are a couple that do not.... but you never can tell. I don't know many men that if faced with 1000s of beautiful women throwing themselves at them on a yearly basis would be able to resist. Maybe they could resist for a month... maybe even a year... but certainly not a lifetime.


Exactly. I always thought that all athletes probably cheated on their wives but Kobe made such a point of being faithful when none of the others did, and he's a borderline nerd, that I thought he studied game tape in his hotel and wrote in his journal. He always seemed more unique than the other guys in the league. I thought this was another way he was unique. I guess not.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly. I always thought that all athletes probably cheated on their wives but Kobe made such a point of being faithful when none of the others did, and he's a borderline nerd, that I thought he studied game tape in his hotel and wrote in his journal. He always seemed more unique than the other guys in the league. I thought this was another way he was unique. I guess not.


A.C. GREEN never cheated!  
He claimed to be a virgin thorough his (long) NBA career.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> A.C. GREEN never cheated!
> He claimed to be a virgin thorough his (long) NBA career.



AC Green was also lame. I personally could careless about athletes personal lives, because I get very angry when people get in my personal business. So I have to believe if cameras are up in your face all day that when you go home, you want to leave that stuff outside. 

And why do sports reporters act like they know athletes, they are just fans with pad and paper. These guys are nothing. They think they become best friends with the athletes, they are the real losers, because they actually thought that the athletes give a damn about them.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

The good news for Vanessa is that Kobe probably won't have sex with a groupie until *at least* December.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> The good news for Vanessa is that Kobe probably won't have sex with a groupie until *at least* December.


The real good news is Vanessa doesn't have that pre-nup, eh?


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>theyoungsrm</b>!
> Spartacus Triumvirate said that Kobe is afforded more priviages I guess because he is rich and famous. That is BS, if I got charged for rape I wouldn't have to worry about million of Americans judging me as a rapist, I wouldn't have to worry about the strong public stereotype of the lustful Black athlete-animal that can't control his penis, and I wouldn't have to deal with the media analysing how non remorseful I looked the day before or how I looked like I was faking tears.


And you wouldn't have major media outlets saying what an outstanding citizen you are and you wouldn't have the money to buy the best legal minds, the best investigators and the best expert witnesses that money could buy either just to name a few of the perks. 

Too be honest, you'd probably be SITTING IN JAIL awaiting your trial. _But like I always say, never let the facts get in the way of a good story._ In a thread with almost 2,500 views and 150 posts you seem to be the only one with the stereotype that blacks can't control themselves. And you state your case so obnoxiously. Really, "lustful Black athlete-animal that can't control his penis"? I can certainly say I hold no such view and I have found no evidence of others with such a view. Don't try to paint the argument to such an extreme so as to hold those who may differ from your view as less than honorable. You do a disservice to the conversation.

Personally speaking, I would take the high-profile negativity Kobe may be getting in order to have his resources so that I might have a better chance of avoiding a guilty verdict. Because without his resources, the normal guy, just might be in for a very very long change of address.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> A.C. GREEN never cheated!
> He claimed to be a virgin thorough his (long) NBA career.


I think AC was a virgin since he was always hanging with Magic and he took all the women for 4-ways and 5-ways.


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## Sicky Dimpkins (May 28, 2002)

:idea:
Bryant offered her a Kobe purebred beef wiener but she was a vegetarian?!


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> He did commit an injustice against me. I had to see his ugly smug mug on MTV's Diary talking about how faithful he was. I would say "I don't care for Kobe but he seems like the only guy in the league who wouldn't cheat on his wife." I would actually say that to friends when discussing basketball! How embarassing!!
> ...


Well if you feel he did an injustice to you, I guess I can't change your opinon, I can respect it without argeeing. The only problem I have with your whole post is with the comment you made that Kobe is "common" because he committed adultry. You are assuming that all athletes can't control themselves, that the act is common among their group? This is exactly what I'm talking about when I talk about the stereotype about black athletes, (or maybe just athletes in general, but probably black athletes) that they can't control themselves sexually. If you actually decided to look you'd see that comparatively athletes are not charged or convicted of rape any more than those in the greater society. But somehow the stereotype lives on......


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> And you wouldn't have major media outlets saying what an outstanding citizen you are and you wouldn't have the money to buy the best legal minds, the best investigators and the best expert witnesses that money could buy either just to name a few of the perks.
> ...


So why again do I do a disservice to this conversation? Because I've reconized long ago the stereotype of the Black athlete? I'm sorry for being educated...but I've identified this view in posts above. You may not have the stereotype, but a whole lot of people do. I identified it in a earlier post. I've seen it as a black man and athlete growing up on the South Side of Chicago. And I have read, written, and studied it as a Political Science and African-American studies student at a Big Ten University. So call painting the arguement as extreme, I call it a reality.....think about that.

As for the Kobe situation, I much rather be a regular Joe. You can substitue your opinons for facts, but as long as I can make bail, I would not have to be in jail. And for the trial itself, well I'd always argue that Kobe is facing a uphill battle being a black athlete. He will be percived by many as the "common athlete" Lizzy talked about, who is a womanizer. I'd be much more comfortable being regular joe who has a clean criminal record and be confident that my regular attorney can beat a case that was brought up by a drug abuser that has a history of mental instability (that's is what any lawyer would argue, being a brillant legal mind or not) 

Overall, you can have your personal beliefs, but the stereotypes I've studied and experienced exist and I think it makes it problematic for Kobe even if he has expensive lawyers. You say that the major media outlets are defending him....but I can't find anybody on the ESPN website defending his character. Most articles say, "I don't know him" The ESPN website is certainly not the entirety of the national media outlets but we can assume that ESPN would be more sympathetic to a sports icon than anyone around. 

So to conclude I'd urge again to explain why I'm a disservice to this conversation and then move on to more topical issues on Kobe. Holla


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

I fully agree with what has been acknowledged by the media in many major media outlets. Kobe transcends race. This individual is known to the country by first name. He has a glowing background. I've watched program after program where Kobe is heavily defended and the victim has been seriously questioned.

I simply believe you are doing the best you can to introduce race into a situation where its not required. Yes, folks will believe athletes may be out of control with the law or with sexual misconduct to a certain degree. But lets not frame it for convenience. We're talking ALL athletes.

I don't watch much ESPN so I can't speak to it specifically. I usually find the network to be for the athlete, by the athlete and about the athlete. Its Entertainment Tonight for Sports. What I did see of it initially was completely backing Kobe. I do read articles on the site and you are correct - some of the columnists are suggesting exactly what you said.

One interesting thing I find is that there seems to be a quick assumption that Kobe will not get a fair trial because white people are obviously biased and racial (as if no other group could be accused of the same). I happen to believe Kobe is still likely to be found innocent even if tried in Eagle Co. Again, I believe he transcends race and he will find enough supporters who will believe he is incapable of such an act regardless of the venue.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> I fully agree with what has been acknowledged by the media in many major media outlets. Kobe transcends race. This individual is known to the country by first name. He has a glowing background. I've watched program after program where Kobe is heavily defended and the victim has been seriously questioned.
> 
> I simply believe you are doing the best you can to introduce race into a situation where its not required. Yes, folks will believe athletes may be out of control with the law or with sexual misconduct to a certain degree. But lets not frame it for convenience. We're talking ALL athletes.
> ...


It seems to me like you think I'm blinding throwing the race card out there, but you refuse to actually acknowledge my arguements. First, the idea that Kobe transcends race is very very hard to believe if you have any understanding of the history of race relations in sports. I'll give you two examples, first the most simple to draw, O.J Simpson. If you go back to the 1970's OJ Simpson came up as a extremely "race-netural" athlete. In the years of big afros and black athletes making political statements on race at every turn, O.J was different. He wore his hair in a short fro, was a extremely quiet and apolitical. For this and his excellecnce on the field he was marketed as the perfect black athlete and for his his heyday he was probably the most popular athlete going. He was well recived in Hollywood and business and truely recived token status. But as soon as he had his legal problems, his race neutrality disappeared. He was a ex black athlete that committed a horrible crime aganist a white couple. I'm not saying he's gulity or innocent but that's a small history of the "race netural" athlete. Look at Joe Louis too, he was painted as a race netural athlete...and in another post I can get into his history.

As for the fair trial I think my arguement was a little bit more complex than, "He ain't gonna get a fair trial cuz he Black". Re-read my post.....there are multiple reasons why he won't get a fair trial in my opinon....and none of them are as simple as you describe it. Let's have a real discussion or stop posting.

Now how again am I a disservice to this convo?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>theyoungsrm</b>!
> 
> 
> So why again do I do a disservice to this conversation? Because I've reconized long ago the stereotype of the Black athlete? I'm sorry for being educated...but I've identified this view in posts above. You may not have the stereotype, but a whole lot of people do. I identified it in a earlier post. I've seen it as a black man and athlete growing up on the South Side of Chicago. And I have read, written, and studied it as a Political Science and African-American studies student at a Big Ten University. So call painting the arguement as extreme, I call it a reality.....think about that.
> ...


SRM,

I see you are versed in appropriate history of these situations, but is it possible we are dealing with a new and encouraging precident here in race relations? 

With the OJ situation, IMO, most people believed OJ was guilty as soon as they saw footage of him fleeing in his Blazer. That chase sequence certainly changed media perception. 

In Kobe's situation, it is my perception that the (mostly white) media is behind him as a gut reaction. Doesn't that say a little something about changes in perception with regard to black athletes and crimes? It seems like everybody is looking at Kobe's history at first, and not his skin color, and saying "Kobe couldn't possibly have done that!"


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Get Off of Kobe's Back*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> SRM,
> ...


You are certainly correct in identifing the OJ situation as much different than the Kobe situation. Really I didn't mean to make race such an important part of this discussion. All I said that the stereotype of the Black athlete is one of the many problems that Kobe will have in defending himself. It is certainly not the main or even most important problem he'll have... I'm not sure though that the media is completely behind Kobe, the public I think is certainly, but the media has seemed to take a stance that "we thought of Kobe as a great person, but maybe we're wrong". Now the girl's shady past and the blabber mouth friends have done nothing to help her in the media or public but that's really neither here nor there.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Mackey, 47, has the presence and ability to convince a jury that Bryant is innocent and may even be able to persuade prosecutor Mark Hurlbert to drop the case before a trial begins, legal observers say.
> 
> In recent years, Mackey has repeatedly gotten charges dismissed against her clients, including just-retired Colorado Avalanche goalie Patrick Roy.
> ---
> ...


http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1532077,00.html


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theyoungsrm</b>!
> First, the idea that Kobe transcends race is very very hard to believe


Magic Johnson is another example of an athlete who transcends race. IMO race is being introduced into this case for no other reason than to make sure Kobe must be found guilty, "beyond, beyond a reasonable doubt". I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into the public perception that this is required. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is good enough for me whether the guys black or white.



> Originally posted by <b>theyoungsrm</b>!
> But as soon as he had his legal problems, his race neutrality disappeared. He was a ex black athlete that committed a horrible crime aganist a white couple.


Feel free to talk about the history of the black athlete as much as you'd like. Its not impressing me at all. I don't care if the couple was white, black, or purple. I don't care if OJ was white, black, or purple. Everything about the case said the guy was guilty as sin. That is the publics perception to this day.



> Originally posted by <b>theyoungsrm</b>!
> As for the fair trial I think my arguement was a little bit more complex than, "He ain't gonna get a fair trial cuz he Black". Re-read my post.....there are multiple reasons why he won't get a fair trial in my opinon....and none of them are as simple as you describe it. Let's have a real discussion or stop posting.


Yeah, I guess my argument wasn't as articulate as your black animal athlete controlling his penis thesis.

Too be honest with you race is a little too explosive an issue to get into a detailed debate over on this board. If you want to PM me thats fine otherwise I'll leave my statements stand.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Magic Johnson is another example of an athlete who transcends race. IMO race is being introduced into this case for no other reason than to make sure Kobe must be found guilty, "beyond, beyond a reasonable doubt". I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into the public perception that this is required. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is good enough for me whether the guys black or white.
> ...


I'll keep this quick. One, I have no idea what you mean about race and beyond beyond a reasonable doubt. Secondly, I don't think OJ is innocent at all, but I was arguing that when that once a race-transending black athlele is accused of a crime, he becomes a lot less race netural. You don't have to be impressed with my knowledge on race-sports history, just reconize how it applies to this debate. And you can make fun of my animal athlete line, but there is a academically reconized theory that the black athlete is percived as oversexed and I identified that with another poster. And finally I beleive this is a great forum to discuss race. I would guess that there are a multitde of races, ideas, and attitudes posting here and when diversity comes together like this people are educated and exposed to new things. Peace


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

*Bombshell in Kobe case?*

It seems Matt Drudge is reporting that anal sex was involved in the Kobe Bryant case. If this is true, this friends account would seem to make a good deal of sense and would be a BOMBSHELL Kobe may not recover from.



> Bray refused to give details of what he called "the attack" because of requests from the woman's family and her attorney. But Bray said the woman has obvious physical injuries that are still visible three weeks after the incident.
> 
> *"I can't wait for this to get in front of a jury so they can see what happened," Bray said. "Their jaws will hit the floor, and they will convict him."*


There are other rumors that the woman had 12 stitches and that investigative media such as Dateline are holding back the reports at this time.

*Hypothetically*, what if they began having foreplay and she perhaps even consented to normal intercourse --- BUT then found out that it was going to be anal sex. At this point consensual could easily have become non-consensual and force could have been used to complete the act.

If this really occurred, who cares about the damage to Kobe, what damage is done to the NBA itself? Does the NBA take a huge hit here or is it business as usual?



Link to story above

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E28682%257E1527303,00.html 

The Denver Post has an extensive archive on the Kobe Bryant case.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Bombshell in Kobe case?*



> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> If this really occurred, who cares about the damage to Kobe, what damage is done to the NBA itself? Does the NBA take a huge hit here or is it business as usual?


I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but are you saying this assuming Kobe is found GUILTY(if he really is guilty)? If so, I think it's very selfish to care about the NBA. What about the victim? What about Kobe's wife and kid? I'm sure the NBA will get by without Kobe, I'm not sure how his kid will deal with it though. Again, I don't think I understood clearly what you were asking.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Bombshell in Kobe case?*



> Originally posted by <b>Pay Ton</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but are you saying this assuming Kobe is found GUILTY(if he really is guilty)? If so, I think it's very selfish to care about the NBA. What about the victim? What about Kobe's wife and kid? I'm sure the NBA will get by without Kobe, I'm not sure how his kid will deal with it though. Again, I don't think I understood clearly what you were asking.


Yes, I am saying this assuming he would be found guilty. I think you will find a history of my posts that would show a good deal of concern towards the alleged victim. However, because this is an NBA board I am simply stating that if Kobe is found guilty I could care less what happens to him (rot in jail), but I am curious as to what sort of immediate and lasting impact it would have on the NBA. There are already rumors on the Lakers board that the NBA is quietly suppressing the views of its members concerning Kobe and his background. I'm sure that would be highly debated as some sort of unfathomable conspiracy theory, yet we all know things like that happen every day. The players would fear reprisal and realistically, this situation ain't gonna help league revenues - it could only hurt them.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Bryant is due in court Wednesday, after which a timetable should become clearer. Whether he is eventually exonerated or incarcerated, Bryant will one day make a return to the court.
> 
> "If anything, I would expect the first Laker game to draw the biggest ratings for a regular-season game in a long, long time," Cuban said. "No one wants to see these things happen, but the reality of our world today is that this will help the business of the NBA, not hurt it."


Can't say I agree with this especially long term. One game - as an odyssey, maybe.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1588932


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I posted this on the Lakers board too, but how many people have called 911 even once (let alone twice) in the last six months?

I've called it once in like 8 years, and that because I accidentally hit the wrong button on my phone :|


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I posted this on the Lakers board too, but how many people have called 911 even once (let alone twice) in the last six months?
> 
> I've called it once in like 8 years, and that because I accidentally hit the wrong button on my phone :|


A talking head on MSNBC this week was implying that Kobe had a somewhat volatile marriage with his wife. If true, the prosecutor should be looking into it to see if there has been any domestic violence. The same way Kobe's folks want to see if the victim has a history, they should want to see if Kobe has a violent behind closed doors history.

In the rumor and innuendo of the back alley chat rooms and forums of the Internet, there are a number of stories out there about Kobe involved in similar situations. It will be interesting to see if its just BS (likely) or if there is actually some basis to it.

I was curious to see what people might think if the rumors that he forced her to have anal sex were true. Personally, I'd probably have a hard time believing he could convince a stranger - in less than 30 minutes no less - to participate. If this were true, I'd probably be well along the way to believing he's guilty as hell barring some fantastic evidence to dispell the notion.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> I was curious to see what people might think if the rumors that he forced her to have anal sex were true. Personally, I'd probably have a hard time believing he could convince a stranger - in less than 30 minutes no less - to participate. If this were true, I'd probably be well along the way to believing he's guilty as hell barring some fantastic evidence to dispell the notion.


If they don't know each other it all, it probably makes it more likely he's guilty. If they've hooked up before, or she's known around the NBA as the "Anal groupie of Eagle, Colorado", then it doesn't make much difference at all.


----------

