# Game 5: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

*Game 5: Detroit Pistons (4-0) at Phoenix Suns (2-2)*

*Thursday, November 10th, 8:30 PM (PST - Arizona), TNT*













*Starting Lineup*





































Chauncey Billups Richard Hamilton Tayshaun Prince Rasheed Wallace Ben Wallace

*Reserves*

Maurice Evans 
Antonio McDyess 
Carlos Arroyo 
Carlos Delfino 
Darko Milicic 
Jason Maxiell 
Dale Davis 










*Starting Lineup*





































Steve Nash Raja Bell Shawn Marion Boris Diaw Kurt Thomas

*Reserves*

James Jones 
Leandro Barbosa
Jim Jackson 
Brian Grant 
Eddie House 
Pat Burke 




*Chris's Game Notes:* The Phoenix Suns lost by one point to the Sacramento Kings on Sunday night ago after failing to score on their final possession. Despite heroic efforts by Boris Diaw and Leandro Barbosa, the Suns committed several costly fouls near the end of regulation that made this game difficult to win. A couple days ago, coach D'Antoni announced that Boris Diaw would be slotted into the starting lineup at the four position against the Pistons, with Shawn Marion sliding to the 3 spot and James Jones moving to the bench. The Detroit Pistons have won all four of their games thus far in the season, surprisingly displaying a fastbreak that they were not supposed to be capable of. Their stellar defense won them a championship, but this season under new coach Flip Saunders they have combined this defense with a running offense that has stunned its opponents into submission. Detroit seeks to prove this year that they can duplicate the successes that the team enjoyed the last two years under Larry Brown. Their defense will look to thwart the outside shooting of the Suns, while it will be interesting to see if the Saunders strategy is to run the court with them. Phoenix will need more than ever to move the ball and run like the wind in order to get good looks for their outside shooters, and thus not giving Detroit the opportunity to defend them in the halfcourt game. Phoenix will also need to overcome their size disadvantages and overachieve on the defensive glass, something that recently has not been a characteristic of the Suns. Last year, the Suns were a stellar road team. Often enough though, they would not do a good job in defending their home court. With the second game of a five-game homestand (the first against Sacramento resulting in a loss), the Suns also seek to prove they can play as well at home as they do across the country. Leandro Barbosa has come alive lately, and the Suns could definitely use another contribution like the one he gave in the last game (23 points in 24 minutes) to get them a win in this game. The Suns play tonight on four days rest while Detroit played its last game on Thursday, defeating the Suns' last opponent, the Kings 102-88 on the road.
​


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: Game 4: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005*

The Suns were outrebounded by the last few teams pretty badly, .....they are going to have their work cut out on trying to keep the Pistons off the glass.


----------



## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

*Re: Game 4: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005*

Marion is going to have to get at least 20 rebounds for us to have a chance.


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: Game 4: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005*

Yea lol, for some reason that made me laugh. 

KT's rebounding numbers have been slightly off but partly due to limited minutes. Its going to be tough to assign playing time against the pistons. Do we play Kurt more to rebound or do we play Diaw more to give us that spark off the bench?


----------



## Nocioni (May 23, 2005)

*Re: Game 4: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005*

Ben wallace will easily grab 10 offensive boards vs phoenix


----------



## BootyKing (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: Game 4: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005*

Yeh im not looking forward to this game, i think the Wallaces are going to have a field day on the boards.


----------



## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: Game 4: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005*

Yeah I agree they will struggle on the boards. It's going to take another huge effort by everyone if they are going to get past Detroit...


----------



## 7 (Sep 14, 2004)

I'll be at the game, so let's hope the Suns win.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Nice. It should be a competitive game, that's for sure. This matchup worries me, but hopefully the Suns' bench can come in and give them the lift needed to win.


----------



## Sedd (Sep 1, 2003)

I think the Suns are gonna get hit in the mouth pretty hard. I hope I'm wrong though, but the Pistons are a powerhouse as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

I am just glad its on TNT so I can watch it in Chicago :cheers:


----------



## bbfan (Oct 8, 2005)

The Suns will probably score enough points to win, but Detroit is going to out rebound them and get put backs. The Suns can win if they can shoot a decent percentage.
I would like to see Burke get some minutes. He could have helped late in the game with the Kings. I really think this guy with his big body and his scoring touch can help. He probably will not play in this game though.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

I think there's a definite chance he could get a few minutes this game. Detroit is simply too tall for the Suns to play Diaw at center. And I do think they plan on saving Brian Grant for late season and only playing him 5-10 mpg. Kurt Thomas can't guard Rasheed or McDyess though, so Burke will probably play center behind Thomas, with Shawn and Diaw getting the majority of minutes at the 4. They have the tools to play physical with Nash. Last year, that meant Amare would go to work. This year, the Suns better be hitting their outside shots or this could very well turn into a 70's final score.


----------



## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

If the Suns play their game it should shake Pistons out of it. But if the Suns miss opportunities dont expect second chances because the Suns will not outrebound the Wallaces.

but i stay optimistic..

Suns: 104
Pistons: 97


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Pistons has been playing a much faster tempo now. It will be interesting to see how they respond to Suns' style. 

This win will be so much more meaningful than beating Kings.  


One win against an elite team beats 10 wins over the lottery teams.


----------



## MeirToTheWise (Nov 9, 2005)

I believe on the official site of the Suns, it said Diaw may start as small/power (can't remember which) forward with james jones coming off the bench.. As for the predictions for this game.. I think it's going to be another nail-biter coming down to the last 2-3 minutes. It'll be nice seeing a proven defense versus a proven high-powered offense. The teams are sort of opposites of each other when you think of play style. Well, I got Suns winning by 5, so go go Suns!


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

I think the Suns will try to turn this into a very uptempo game but at that point they should figure out its the same things the Pistons are doing.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

MeirToTheWise said:


> I believe on the official site of the Suns, it said Diaw may start as small/power (can't remember which) forward with james jones coming off the bench.. As for the predictions for this game.. I think it's going to be another nail-biter coming down to the last 2-3 minutes. It'll be nice seeing a proven defense versus a proven high-powered offense. The teams are sort of opposites of each other when you think of play style. Well, I got Suns winning by 5, so go go Suns!


Welcome to the board man! Yeah, I also saw that Diaw could start. James Jones will have to provide a scoring punch off the bench, but I like the move for this game. The starter production was sort of weak compared to what the bench has done, and hopefully this will help even it out a bit. Leandro being able continue his play of late would obviously be great for the Suns in this game.


----------



## MeirToTheWise (Nov 9, 2005)

Haha, thanks for the welcome. Yeah, I forgot to mention that our bench would have to play a big role again (and hopefully continue to), since as you said, the Suns starting five haven't really gotten it done as they should have.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Ever since we lost Amare (for this season), my expectation has dropped. I know some of the new guys can cover for him for a while but Amare is still our franchise player. 

A win tonight will mean a whole lot more. 

I don't think we match bad against Pistons. We beat them last year if I remember correctly. Too bad we don't have Amare since nobody on that team can guard Amare, not even Ben W. 

If we have a good shooting night and they don't, I think we have pretty good chances. We just need to protect our boards more to avoid easy baskets.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Game 4: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005*



KidCanada said:


> Yeah I agree they will struggle on the boards. It's going to take another huge effort by everyone if they are going to get past Detroit...


Effort is something the coach can't teach. The players either have it or don't. Let's see how motivate they are to prove the media that we are still elite. 

So Suns! Let's win one at HOME. This will be the best game so far to win at home.


----------



## MeirToTheWise (Nov 9, 2005)

*Re: Game 4: Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns - Nov 10, 2005*

I think this game could end up serving as a measuring stick of how we match up against the elite teams right now without Amare. Anyone else thinking that?


----------



## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

jibikao said:


> Ever since we lost Amare (for this season), my expectation has dropped. I know some of the new guys can cover for him for a while but Amare is still our franchise player.
> 
> A win tonight will mean a whole lot more.
> 
> ...


@Phoenix 100-91
@Detroit 93-81

Pistons won both games


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Ack! I'm getting sick, so I won't be around tonight during the game. Game thread is finished though. Good luck to the Suns!


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

I would like to see the Pistons run the ball hard at the Suns and I think they will tonight as long as they are controlling the boards and playing solid D. If the Pistons arent able to run with the Suns( which most teams arent and until proven wrong the Pistons cant regardless of recent trends) So if the Suns get the open court game going Im sure you will see the Pistons return to grind it out defense and get the tempo down. Good luck tonight guys and of course I gotta go with Wallace Xs 2 owning the glass and throwin a block party while Rip and Tay both go for 24-29 pts and a Piston 102-91 victory.


----------



## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

The Pistons will be viewed by the media as good guys in this game thanks to the crap pulled at ARCO the other day. I'll be at the game, but I'm probably not going to like how it'll turn out.

On the other hand, I'm gonna go check out that Verizon Jungle upstairs and see if that's any good.


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

Barkley with yet another knock on how we will never get to the next level.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

ian said:


> @Phoenix 100-91
> @Detroit 93-81
> 
> Pistons won both games


wrong. that was 03-04 scores you're posting. last yr we lost 94-80 without Nash and then we won 100-97 in march.

http://aol.nba.com/suns/schedule/results_2004.html


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

rdm2 said:


> Barkley with yet another knock on how we will never get to the next level.


yeah i thought i was watching something from last yr. right now we do not have amare and we made the moves we did to get better defensively but we wont see how this team would be or would've been if amare didn't get hurt.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

rdm2 said:


> Barkley with yet another knock on how we will never get to the next level.


Like he did?


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

The Suns not closing games is getting really old, really fast. 


Suns had the game in their hads, but failed to do anything besides run the pick-n-roll.




D'Antoni seriously needs to come with some plays that doesn't involve the pick-n-roll.........


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

oy, we lose another close one when we have the lead. I'm getting sick of it already.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

and why'd he take Barbosa out? He was getting to the rim at least. We need Amare ****in Stoudemire.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Again, we HAD this game. The Pistons just won't miss. Holy cow... everybody was freaking hot. 

We had offense melt down. Did coach tell Nash to go one on one or everybody is just so used to watching Nash to create something? Everybody was standing around waiting for something to happen and when they do get the ball, they don't know what to do. 


This team has potential though. Our bench is great and we just need to find a way to close out at home. I know we don't have Amare but we are still a quality team. Kurt/Brian look lost out there. I don't know how to explain but they look lost. Defensively, I don't think they are doing better than what we did last year. We are still giving up defensive boards (though tonight is better IMO). Offensively, Kurt/Brian just look so slow. Their reaction speed is like 0.5s behind Nash. 

Barbosa was great. James/Diaw are good too. Our center is weak though. That's our weakest spot.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

SunsFan57 said:


> The Suns not closing games is getting really old, really fast.
> 
> 
> Suns had the game in their hads, but failed to do anything besides run the pick-n-roll.
> ...


The sad thing is besides Nash, who is good at creating their own shots? JJ could but he is gone. I think the new guys can but the coach needs to give them more chances. We need different strategy late in the 4th. Don't let Nash dominate so much since that's exactly what the opponent expects. Spice it up a little bit.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

jibikao said:


> The sad thing is besides Nash, who is good at creating their own shots? JJ could but he is gone. I think the new guys can but the coach needs to give them more chances. We need different strategy late in the 4th. Don't let Nash dominate so much since that's exactly what the opponent expects. Spice it up a little bit.


seems like we're fine up till end of the 4th, and it's not like teams are doing anything different. we're just stagnant on offense, and standing around.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Boris can create his own shot, but hardly does. 


Hes to unselfish.


We should go to James in the post more, hes got a deadly turn around shot. 


And if we had Amare, we would definately be 5 - 0 right now. 

Or atleast 4 - 1.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

jibikao said:


> Again, we HAD this game. The Pistons just won't miss. Holy cow... everybody was freaking hot.
> 
> We had offense melt down. Did coach tell Nash to go one on one or everybody is just so used to watching Nash to create something? Everybody was standing around waiting for something to happen and when they do get the ball, they don't know what to do.
> 
> ...


I don't know what the heck coach was thinking, letting this happen again. I don't see why Leandro or Diaw were not in the game. Playing Thomas and Grant and expecting to be able to score is stupid to me.

Thomas and Grant were brought in to compliment Amare. Without Amare in there, Thomas or Grant have to be the only big guy out there. We have the same problem as we did last year because once again we have Marion at the 4, but this time no quickness at the 5 to combat it. If Amare was in the game, it's very hard to double him because these guys can hit open shots. They just can't create their own shots. Once Amare gets back (if), I think Thomas and Grant will look a lot better in the offense. Remember, these guys were picked up for the playoffs. All they have to do is hit their open shots while getting out of Amare's way.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> Boris can create his own shot, but hardly does.
> 
> 
> Hes to unselfish.
> ...


See, that's the thing though. Even when he doesn't get his own shot, he's in the lane and getting attention.  This leads to open shots, or at least a disorganized defense. I can't imagine why Diaw was not in the game at the end.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

dissonance19 said:


> and why'd he take Barbosa out? He was getting to the rim at least. We need Amare ****in Stoudemire.


My thoughts exactly on Barbosa. Good game, but how many more of these types of losses can the Suns endure?


----------



## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

Well, I may be on the loser's side, but at least I can predict them.

BTW, the Verizon Jungle is okay at best. Had fun playing Ms. Pac Man though.


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> I don't know what the heck coach was thinking, letting this happen again. I don't see why Leandro or Diaw were not in the game. Playing Thomas and Grant and expecting to be able to score is stupid to me.
> 
> Thomas and Grant were brought in to compliment Amare. Without Amare in there, Thomas or Grant have to be the only big guy out there. We have the same problem as we did last year because once again we have Marion at the 4, but this time no quickness at the 5 to combat it. If Amare was in the game, it's very hard to double him because these guys can hit open shots. They just can't create their own shots. Once Amare gets back (if), I think Thomas and Grant will look a lot better in the offense. Remember, these guys were picked up for the playoffs. All they have to do is hit their open shots while getting out of Amare's way.


Now we need to find a way to make it to the playoffs without Amare. As much as I want a win tonight, I think our bench proves that we CAN compete in the playoffs. This year is like bench > starters. lol When Nash sits down, our bench can beat the opposing bench but Marion/Nash comes in, we are short and without Amare drawing attention, I can't see how Marion can get open and he has no one-on-one game to begin with, so is Raja Bell. 

I like Diaw's passing. Much better than Amare. He is tall and quick. James is great too. 


Putting Kurt/Brian in certainly didn't help at all. Pistons were still making shots all the time and we absolutely had no offense flow. We passed around for a bit and when we get stuck, everybody just stood there wait for Nash to create something. This is pretty typical of Mavs' game when Nash was there. I wish the coach can change some strategy.


----------



## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

It 's frustrating but pistons are just a great team . There will be many victories . It is not like the team was clueless , there is potential , shooters , a good collective siprit ..Now I understand that Nash wants the W but he has a tendency to shoot a little bit too much . he is such a winner .
I think that Barbosa is a good spark coming from the bench . he can bring instant scoring and that helps a lot . Now Perhaps d'Antoni should try him as a starter... who knows ?


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

This was a downer loss...it sucked, bad.

I noticed Diaw on the bench in the closing minutes. I woulda had him AND barbosa and Nash out there, those 3 really can create turmoil out there, and find their own shot...or find the open man. Dissapointing =\


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

rdm2 said:


> This was a downer loss...it sucked, bad.
> 
> I noticed Diaw on the bench in the closing minutes. I woulda had him AND barbosa and Nash out there, those 3 really can create turmoil out there, and find their own shot...or find the open man. Dissapointing =\


DAntoni tried to put our "bigs" out there but I don't feel they were defending any better. We lost so much in offense when those two steps in. They were slow and we don't utilize their post game. I've watched Kurt Thomas a few times and I thought he had some post moves?? Brian is just so slow out there.... 

I don't know. I feel we definitely need to change strategies in the end. Letting Nash go one on one is not our best solution. It may work every once a while but he is still a passing guard. Without Amare drawing attention, it will be too tough on Nash.


----------



## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

watched the game last night, excited to see Diaw playing solid basketball. Too bad the Suns came up short in the end. What I notice from the game:
- Suns bench continue to look good, Barbosa and James Jones are great spark off the bench.
- Nash was awesome. He's very good at finding the open man, but at the end, why was everybody standing around? They should've move around and create open space for Nash to pass.
- I'm still not satisfy with Diaw performance. He's unselfish to a fault. He's a pretty good slasher for somebody his size. He should take advantage of that ability. He's a very good passer though. His passing ability really reminds me of Scottie Pippen. He's defense was just ok. But at least he's becoming more comfortable in this league.
- I saw some careless passing. The Suns needs to take care of the ball better. The bad thing about Diaw being in starting lineup is, when the 2nd unit came out with Eddie House, James Jones, Barbosa, Burke, and Grant, there were no ball distributor. If Nash is not in the lineup, Diaw should be in as the main ball distributor. Tonight I saw a lot of careless passng from the 2nd unit.
- Brian Grant sucks!
- What happen with Jimmy Jackson?
- At the end of the game, why is both Thomas and Grant on the lineup? Diaw, Barbosa or James Jones should be out there. Jones and Barbosa was hot throughout the game. I understand that Bell had a very good 4th quarter, but I think it's better to have the hottest scorer (Barbosa) on the floor at the end of game like that. Plus Barbosa is very capable of creating his own shot. Diaw can also help with his passing ability.
- And rebound. The Suns needs to rebound the ball better. Marion and Thomas did a nice job. Diaw didn't. With his size and athleticism. He should grab 6 - 8 rebounds. Brian Grant was also poor at rebounding the ball. I thought that's why he's brought here. To rebound. 

The Suns just need to learn how to close games. I don't worry too much. Suns have a great core of talent. Once Amare return, this team will be even better.


----------



## MeirToTheWise (Nov 9, 2005)

Bah.. these close losses are very depressing.. Obviously, it shows without Amare that we have an extremely difficult time closing out games. But since nothing can be done about that, I have to wonder what the hell was the coach thinking taking out barbosa. He was having a good night and was getting into the lane. It at least would have taken some pressure off of Nash to not have to create his own shot, and everyone else's, by going one-on-one at the end and then getting collapsed on. Oh, and the boxing out on the boards towards the latter 5 minutes of the game was horrible. If I had to have a starting five towards the end of that game, I'd have put Nash, Barbosa, Marion, Bell, Diaw. Oh, and never ever put both Grant and Thomas in the game together at the end.

A few good notes though... the bench is playing well; barbosa is finally coming along consistently; we should be able to beat 70-80% of the teams out there until Amare comes back.

One other note, Barkley's a hater. He keeps forgetting to realize that if we had Amare, these games would have been closed out efficiently, and we'd be 5-0.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

MeirToTheWise said:


> Bah.. these close losses are very depressing.. Obviously, it shows without Amare that we have an extremely difficult time closing out games. But since nothing can be done about that, I have to wonder what the hell was the coach thinking taking out barbosa. He was having a good night and was getting into the lane. It at least would have taken some pressure off of Nash to not have to create his own shot, and everyone else's, by going one-on-one at the end and then getting collapsed on. Oh, and the boxing out on the boards towards the latter 5 minutes of the game was horrible. If I had to have a starting five towards the end of that game, I'd have put Nash, Barbosa, Marion, Bell, Diaw. Oh, and never ever put both Grant and Thomas in the game together at the end.
> 
> A few good notes though... the bench is playing well; barbosa is finally coming along consistently; we should be able to beat 70-80% of the teams out there until Amare comes back.
> 
> One other note, Barkley's a hater. He keeps forgetting to realize that if we had Amare, these games would have been closed out efficiently, and we'd be 5-0.


These are some nice posts! Yeah, I was annoyed that Amare got no mention on TNT at the end by anyone of them. They just say the Suns can't rebound. Yeah, they couldn't last year either because they had Marion at the 4. Once again, we have Marion at the 4. Stoudemire/Thomas/Marion is a much better rebounding team than Thomas/Marion/Jones, by far. No, instead it's just "Suns can't rebound". Suns desparately need a shot blocker. Thomas and Grant are simply too short to go alongside Marion and be expected to rebound. Even when they had good position and box out, which they usually do, all Detroit had to do was tap the ball up and then grab it.


----------



## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

Well, you guys have taken the words right out of my mouth.

/rep.
/rep.
/You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ShuHanGuanYu again.


----------

