# Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"



## Najee

He broke his wrist in high school and it took a year for it to heal.

He missed his first NBA season with microfracture surgery, a procedure typically associated with players with wear and tear on their legs after years of playing.

He recently missed one month -- the result of running into another player's knee and cracking his.

Greg Oden has a lot of issues with his basketball game, but it's going to be a moot point if he cannot play. Before the 2007 draft there was pointed concern about his health, particularly his knees. What's also disturbing is Oden's recovery time from such injuries and his frailty.

Some people say Oden's injuries are fluke; others say it was a red flag that's existed since his high school days. Share your thoughts.


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## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It's been a red flag since HS, IMO.


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## Chan Ho Nam

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

isn't mr glass, tmac or yao?


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## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^Maybe, but GO is making a strong push for it.


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## Najee

T-Mac and Yao Ming haven't missed 66 percent of their team's games the past two seasons. When you get to the point your team's website ran a rehab blog for you like Portland did for Greg Oden, you know you're Mr. Glass.


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## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^really? 

:rotf:


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## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

T-Mac has been proven injury-prone for years. Oden's only been here for two. If he stays healthy, he won't be taking the "Mr. Glass" name away from McGrady.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Really:

http://odenrehab.blogspot.com/

T-Mac has only two out of 12 seasons where he has missed more than 20 games -- 2005-06 and this season. Moreover, T-Mac didn't come into the NBA with a season-ending injury and hasn't had the type of injuries Greg Oden has had (including banging into another player's knee and missing one month).


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## Dornado

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> He broke his wrist in high school and it took a year for it to heal.
> 
> He missed his first NBA season with microfracture surgery, a procedure typically associated with players with wear and tear on their legs after years of playing.
> 
> He recently missed one month -- the result of running into another player's knee and cracking his.
> 
> Greg Oden has a lot of issues with his basketball game, but it's going to be a moot point if he cannot play. Before the 2007 draft there was pointed concern about his health, particularly his knees. What's also disturbing is Oden's recovery time from such injuries and his frailty.
> 
> Some people say Oden's injuries are fluke; others say it was a red flag that's existed since his high school days. Share your thoughts.



My thoughts are:

He has been hurt.

Thank you...


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## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Really:
> 
> http://odenrehab.blogspot.com/


:rotf: :rotf:


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## Hibachi!

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden has had some tough times, but when you look at Bynum you cold say the same thing except he has played a full season before he went down. Oden is scary because these are his knees and they don't seem to be coming from any major accident, rather it seems like normal wear and tear that any player should be able to withstand. At this point getting a solid 10-7 out of Oden for a full season would be a victory for Portland.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Andrew Bynum's injury this season was the result of Kobe Bryant accidentally landing on Bynum's leg, causing it to hyperextend and tearing his MCL. 

That's different from Greg Oden needing microfracture surgery following a doctor's exam on his knee and played all of 32 games since high school. Or Oden bumping knees with Corey Maggette, causing Oden's knee to crack and missing one month.


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## Chan Ho Nam

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

if gilbert gets injured next season, he's gonna claim it himself, my god 110+ million dollars for sitting around, droools


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## Idunkonyou

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden will never live up to his hype IMO.


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## ChrisRichards

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

you forgot to even mention his injury at Ohio State


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## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> He broke his wrist in high school and it took a year for it to heal.
> 
> He missed his first NBA season with microfracture surgery, a procedure typically associated with players with wear and tear on their legs after years of playing.
> 
> He recently missed one month -- the result of running into another player's knee and cracking his.
> 
> Greg Oden has a lot of issues with his basketball game, but it's going to be a moot point if he cannot play. Before the 2007 draft there was pointed concern about his health, particularly his knees. What's also disturbing is Oden's recovery time from such injuries and his frailty.
> 
> Some people say Oden's injuries are fluke; others say it was a red flag that's existed since his high school days. Share your thoughts.


as long as you're willing to say the same things about andrew bynum, yao ming, elton brand, amare stoudemire, etc then feel free to say whatever you want.

oh but at least get your facts straight. oden injured his wrist at the end of his senior year of high school and continued to play through it. he kept playing with it in allstar games and things. when he finally decided to have surgery it was in june. he started playing in college in december. that's only 6 months.

and you can say what you want about microfracture, but it's not like amare had huge amounts of wear and tear from all his years of playing either.


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## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I'm not sure I understand all the confusion here.










This man is 20? He looks like hes somewhere between 40 and 60. There's obviously something terribly wrong with Greg. Not to sound morbid, but I'd make a $1000 bet he doesn't make it past the age of 50.


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## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> as long as you're willing to say the same things about andrew bynum, yao ming, elton brand, amare stoudemire, etc then feel free to say whatever you want.


Greg Oden has been injured most of his pro career. The players you listed have not. I don't see the comparison.


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## croco

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

There is no reason to write him off, but you also can't and shouldn't deny that he has been injury prone since being on the national radar, which has probably been the case since his junior year in high school.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> oh but at least get your facts straight. oden injured his wrist at the end of his senior year of high school and continued to play through it. he kept playing with it in allstar games and things. when he finally decided to have surgery it was in june. he started playing in college in december. that's only 6 months.


It actually would help if you got your facts straight.

I said, "(Greg Oden) broke his wrist in high school and it took a year for it to heal." He played his season at Ohio State with his wrist still bandaged his freshman year -- an injury that still was not fully healed when he was drafted:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/ian_thomsen/06/18/draft.injuries/

Since you seem to have problems reading, notice the second paragraph: _"His right wrist has not regained full flexion after being broken last year.

"(An NBA) team executive noted that 'big guys always seem to have bad backs.' But he did express concern about Oden's wrist. 'The people I talked to said it was pretty serious,' the executive said. 'Sometimes the wrist never comes back.'"_

Keep in mind, the story was written in June 2007 -- Oden broke his wrist in March 2006 and had surgery on it in June 2006. The fact that it took Oden that long to recover from a wrist injury reinforces the "Mr. Glass" reputation.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> and you can say what you want about microfracture, but it's not like amare had huge amounts of wear and tear from all his years of playing either.


Amare Stoudemire had three NBA seasons and the 2004 Olympics under his belt when he had his microfracture surgery. Greg Oden had most of one college basketball season (32 games) under his belt when he had his surgery. Also, Stoudemire's game relies much more on running up and down the floor and cutting to the basket, where Oden's game is practically from five feet and less.

Moreover, the concern with Oden is with his apparent frailty and the amount of time it takes for him to recover. His microfracture injury, his broken wrist, even his most recent injury reflect a player who seems very brittle.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Chan said:


> Greg Oden has been injured most of his pro career. The players you listed have not. I don't see the comparison.


Also, it's not as much as Greg Oden's injuries as much as the circumstances for his injuries and his recovery period. Oden has played much fewer games than the likes of Elton Brand and already has had major knee surgery. It takes him more than a year to recover from a broken wrist surgery. He bumps knees with a player and cracks his knee, causing him to be out for a month.

In other words, Oden faces as much injury risk as any other player. The problem is his injuries tend to be more severe than others in comparative situations, combined with an apparent slower recovery period. A person gets the "Mr. Glass" reputation when all things being equal he is more injured and takes longer to recover than someone else.


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## Spaceman Spiff

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Gilbert Arenas before T-Mac in the glass dept. T-Mac has played more games this season alone than Arenas in the past 2 seasons.

Yao's injuries

2005-06
Toe surgery to remove infection
AK47 stepped on his foot while Yao was already jumping in the last game of the season which caused a fracture

2006-07
Tim Thomas awkwardly dives into his knee

2007-08
Stress fracture(likely from lack of rest due to playing/practicing all year round with Chinese team in the summer)

Nothing for Yao throws up a red flag of being injury prone.... they're all freak injuries. Plus Yao has always been on or before schedule in recovering from each. I'd put Oden in the glass category before Yao.


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## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

This is an awful situation because the areas that he's deficient require him to have his knees and such 100%...but man he can't get back to square one for ****.

He's only 20 though, I mean we post in the moment on here but I don't think we always have a good concept of time. 7 years from now, in 2016 he'll only be 27. You know how far 2016 seems from now?


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Actually, Greg Oden turned 21 two months ago. But I understand your point.


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## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oh I was going by R-Star's post.


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## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

You know, I was going to reply to you in the Rookie of the Year thread, but I figured you'd give it a rest. I suppose that's not the case. So, I say, give it a rest. We know you don't like him; you've done everything in your power to put it in all of our faces. He's been injured, fine. I don't see why you keep going on about it. What are you trying to accomplish other then to tear down a 21 year old with injury problems? What do you hope to gain through all this? You've discussed this to an unreal extent in the rookie thread already, please just leave it at that.

You also have this habit of trying to spin things to be worse then they are, such as the knee thing. He didn't crack his knee, he got a bone chip. You make it seem like his whole knee just fell apart on impact.


I also find it funny that the ones who seem to want to take shots at him, and are looking to laugh at him, are fans of other big men in the league, namely Dwight Howard.


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## Dornado

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Actually, Greg Oden turned 21 two months ago. But I understand your point.


I guess my problem with this thread is that it is pointless.

Everybody knows that Greg Oden has missed a lot of games... what is there to discuss?

It seems to me the only reason you would start this thread is to:

1. Delight in Greg Oden's injuries/misfortune
or
2. Scream "I told you so!" at the top of your lungs.

Either way, lame.


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## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dornado said:


> I guess my problem with this thread is that it is pointless.
> 
> Everybody knows that Greg Oden has missed a lot of games... what is there to discuss?
> 
> It seems to me the only reason you would start this thread is to:
> 
> 1. Delight in Greg Oden's injuries/misfortune
> or
> 2. Scream "I told you so!" at the top of your lungs.
> 
> Either way, lame.


I basically agree with this. What were you really trying to accomplish other then what Dornado said?


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## JT

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I imagine he just doesn't feel the hype is warranted. personally I share his sentiment, although the timing for the thread was a bit off.


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## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I don't see how him hurting his wrist in high school is a red flag for future knee problems.

I'm with the people who say his injuries are a fluke, to a point. His first injury was a fluke. The reoccurring knee problems now are because of how he rehabbed, and how his body was when he came back. 

Dude is still young, I'm still pretty optimistic about Greg Oden's future. Time will tell.


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## Spaceman Spiff

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Actually, Greg Oden turned *51* two months ago.


Fixed

.....someone had to do it :devil_2:


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## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Andrew Bynum's injury this season was the result of Kobe Bryant accidentally landing on Bynum's leg, causing it to hyperextend and tearing his MCL.
> 
> That's different from Greg Oden needing microfracture surgery following a doctor's exam on his knee and played all of 32 games since high school. Or Oden bumping knees with Corey Maggette, causing Oden's knee to crack and missing one month.


It's a different structural matter, but it's also the same thing. Guys as large as Bynum & Oden don't recover as easily from structural damage, be it to the ligaments and tendons (as with Bynum) or the cartilage (as with Oden). Bynum's most recent knee injury, like Oden's, came as a result of a fluke occurrence. But in the end this Bynum's third structural injury to the knees. So the knees of both players are going to be a concern going forward. Seven foot tall, 300lb guys are going to be susceptible to knee injuries, that's just the way it is. I think Shaq has changed our expectations for massive guys, but frankly Yao (and Bynum & Oden) are more reflective of reality than Big Daddy.


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## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Chan said:


> T-Mac has been proven injury-prone for years. Oden's only been here for two. If he stays healthy, he won't be taking the "Mr. Glass" name away from McGrady.


At least TMac is sorry. :laugh:


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## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

:laugh: at blametracy.com



Ras said:


> I basically agree with this. What were you really trying to accomplish other then what Dornado said?


I thought this thread was a set-up to clown on rocketeer, seeing as he's the only one to ever defend Oden's injuries with so much zeal. Let it play out.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> You know, I was going to reply to you in the Rookie of the Year thread, but I figured you'd give it a rest. I suppose that's not the case. So, I say, give it a rest. We know you don't like him; you've done everything in your power to put it in all of our faces. He's been injured, fine. I don't see why you keep going on about it.


Interesting, I've never said I didn't like Greg Oden. I guess by objectively looking at his situation and stating facts about his injuries, that must mean I'm a "hater." 

If you want to know, one of the moderators asked for several people to continue the conversation outside of the rookie thread.



Ras said:


> What are you trying to accomplish other then to tear down a 21 year old with injury problems? What do you hope to gain through all this? You've discussed this to an unreal extent in the rookie thread already, please just leave it at that.
> 
> You also have this habit of trying to spin things to be worse then they are, such as the knee thing. He didn't crack his knee, he got a bone chip. You make it seem like his whole knee just fell apart on impact.


You know what, based on your earlier answers you sound like this:


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## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Interesting, I've never said I didn't like Greg Oden. I guess by objectively looking at his situation and stating facts about his injuries, that must mean I'm a "hater."
> 
> If you want to know, one of the moderators asked for several people to continue the conversation outside of the rookie thread.
> 
> 
> 
> You know what, based on your earlier answers you sound like this:


Please explain, because I'm not sure what "earlier answers" you're speaking of. If you mean me asking you what you're trying to accomplish, then I don't see the relevance of the video. I wasn't whining, I was simply question what your motives were, and I was bothered by the fact that you seem to be pushing this issue again and again when nothing more really needs to be said. 

Also, thank you for dodging all my questions and instead implying something insulting. Again, what were you trying to accomplish with this thread? What hasn't been said in that rookie thread that still needs to? You just come off like you either want to put Greg down, or you want to say I told you so.

*Edit -* Also, I never said you were a hater. I just think it's ridiculous that you're pushing this issue when no one else is saying a thing; you seem to want to keep bringing it up even when no one else is.


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## O2K

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

the injuries may be a good thing for the blazer fans. because if Oden doesn't pan out they can blame the injuries. whereas if there were no or little amount of injuries and he doesn't pan out, portland would be on suicide watch.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Please explain, because I'm not sure what "earlier answers" you're speaking of. If you mean me asking you what you're trying to accomplish, then I don't see the relevance of the video. I wasn't whining, I was simply question what your motives were, and I was bothered by the fact that you seem to be pushing this issue again and again when nothing more really needs to be said.


Again, a moderator asked to create a separate Greg Oden thread away from the rookie thread. I already answered your question, so that's my "motive."

Last I looked, nothing required you to post in this thread so apparently you have some issue with a discussion about Greg Oden's injuries.

As for earlier answers, I mean the your initial paragraph in your first comment. If you're under the impression I have to answer to you, you've got a bad impression.


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## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Again, a moderator asked to create a separate Greg Oden thread away from the rookie thread. I already answered your question, so that's my "motive."




I did see that, but again, what still needs to be said? You beat the issue to death in that other thread, what else can even be added? Why create a thread about something that's already been beat to death? Were you really hoping to get more discussion on this? It really just seems like you want to put Greg down, because every post of yours regarding him seems to be negative and you now made a separate thread in that exact vein.



> Last I looked, nothing required you to post in this thread so apparently you have some issue with a discussion about Greg Oden's injuries.


No, I had issue with the fact that you keep pushing the fact that he's been injured in everyone's face when you've already beaten it to death and no one else seems to be bringing it up but you. We all know he's been injured, so what's even the point of the thread?



> As for earlier answers, I mean the your initial paragraph in your first comment. If you're under the impression I have to answer to you, you've got a bad impression.


When did I give the impression you have to answer me? Don't if you don't want to, I just said what I felt should be said.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

OK, I created the thread, Ras. What are you going to do? 

Move on or whine some more. I'm certainly not forcing anyone to respond, and if people don't want to respond then the thread will drop like all the others.


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## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> OK, I created the thread, Ras. What are you going to do?


I'll share my disapproval with what I assume your intentions are, but otherwise, absolutely nothing. 



> Move on or whine some more. I'm certainly not forcing anyone to respond, and if people don't want to respond then the thread will drop like all the others.


Tell me, how am I whining? 

Plus, you've dodged every question I've asked you; you still have yet to state what you were trying to accomplish with this thread.

*Edit -* I also get the impression you know people will respond, which gives you a chance to say something negative about Greg. I'm not even a fan of the man, but I just can't agree with what I assume your motives are.


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## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Chan said:


> Greg Oden has been injured most of his pro career. The players you listed have not. I don't see the comparison.


brand has played 30 games the last two seasons. amare has had microfracture just like oden without huge amounts of wear and tear on his knee causing him to miss one full season and he has also missed large amounts of two other years. the three seasons prior to this one, yao missed about 90 games total. bynum has missed half of his team's games the last two seasons.

yes oden has missed more than half of the games so far in his pro career because he missed his entire rookie year. he's still played more games the past two seasons than brand and the other guys have all had significant injuries as well. so yeah, i'd say if you're going to attack one for being "injury prone" you should go after them all.


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## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Plus, you've dodged every question I've asked you; you still have yet to state what you were trying to accomplish with this thread.


I've accompished it -- that is, use the New Thread button. Now, move on.


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## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I've accompished it -- that is, use the New Thread button. Now, move on.


You still have yet to respond a single question I've asked. Not that you owe me a response, but considering you started the thread about this, don't think you should be responding to those who question it's purpose?


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## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

We've been over this, rocketeer. You're just listing players that have been injured. Due to his injuries, Oden has a higher missed game % than all of those other players. I'd say his missed game % is the highest of all active players. Higher than Larry Hughes and T-Mac, who both have claims to the "Mr. Glass" nickname.


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## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Chan said:


> We've been over this, rocketeer. You're just listing players that have been injured. Due to his injuries, Oden has a higher missed game % than all of those other players. I'd say his missed game % is the highest of all active players. Higher than Larry Hughes and T-Mac, who both have claims to the "Mr. Glass" nickname.


we have been over this chan. when you miss your rookie year due to a surgery and it's only your second season, you are going to have missed a high percentage of your games. of course, oden has missed less games than brand has the past two seasons.


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## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> You still have yet to respond a single question I've asked. Not that you owe me a response, but considering you started the thread about this, don't think you should be responding to those who question it's purpose?


He created it to move the traffic about GO's injuries away from the rookie thread. GO's name kept popping up repeatedly in that thread, becuase for some reason, ppl want to talk about his injuries. If GO was putting up #'s, it's one thing, but talking about GO's injury problems is another. Hence, he created a new thread for people to discuss it here and move traffic away from there.


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## hendrix2430

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Just saw this on google images...pretty funny and even more appropriate.


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## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^ Bahaha, nice.


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## ATLien

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden has pretty much been a joke from the beginning. I am wondering if his nuthuggers would still not take Dwight over this bum.


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## futuristxen

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

You have to play to get better, and with all of the injuries, I think Oden's ceiling just keeps lowering and lowering. He's missing crucial games at a key point in his development as a player. It's a shame, because he has/had the tools to be one of the greats. But sometimes the body is just not willing.


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## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



futuristxen said:


> You have to play to get better, and with all of the injuries, I think Oden's ceiling just keeps lowering and lowering. He's missing crucial games at a key point in his development as a player. It's a shame, because he has/had the tools to be one of the greats. But sometimes the body is just not willing.


i don't know that his ceiling has necessarily changed though realistic expectations of whether or not he will reach it probably have. i think next year will really be the year that tells us what to expect as by that time he should be fully recovered from microfracture.

and really, his play on the court has been pretty good.


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## Prolific Scorer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

[email protected] coming to the defense of Greg Oden like someone killed his cat...


It's legitimate NBA discussion, I know you guys are upset about Oden's career so far after all the hoopla that was spat the last two offseasons, but I doubt it's anything personal.


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## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Prolific Scorer said:


> [email protected] coming to the defense of Greg Oden like someone killed his cat...
> 
> 
> It's legitimate NBA discussion, I know you guys are upset about Oden's career so far after all the hoopla that was spat the last two offseasons, but I doubt it's anything personal.


what?


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## ATLien

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Prolific Scorer said:


> [email protected] coming to the defense of Greg Oden like someone killed his cat...
> 
> 
> It's legitimate NBA discussion, I know you guys are upset about Oden's career so far after all the hoopla that was spat the last two offseasons, but I doubt it's anything personal.


They are obsessed with him. It's sad.


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## GrandKenyon6

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If the Nets were offered Greg Oden for Brook Lopez, do they take it?


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## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> He created it to move the traffic about GO's injuries away from the rookie thread. *GO's name kept popping up repeatedly in that thread, becuase for some reason, ppl want to talk about his injuries*. If GO was putting up #'s, it's one thing, but talking about GO's injury problems is another. Hence, he created a new thread for people to discuss it here and move traffic away from there.


That was partly my point; he was the one that seemed to always bring it up. Everything has been said already from the other side of the fence, but he seems to continue making it an issue when it's not. If I recall, Oden wasn't mentioned for a little while, but he brought him up again. He's injured, we all know, I don't even care. I'd like to see him succeed, but he is what he is right now. Nothing more can be said, and this whole issue has been beat to death, but he's the one perpetuating it.


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## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> If the Nets were offered Greg Oden for Brook Lopez, do they take it?


right now, yes. if there is another year of injuries, no.

offer would never be on the table though.


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## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Prolific Scorer said:


> [email protected] coming to the defense of Greg Oden like someone killed his cat...
> 
> 
> It's legitimate NBA discussion, I know you guys are upset about Oden's career so far after all the hoopla that was spat the last two offseasons, but I doubt it's anything personal.


If you're talking to me, then I think you have the wrong impression of me. I'm not a Blazer fan, or an Oden fan. I'd like to see him succeed, but I'm not a "fan." The only problem I had was that Najee seems to push the issue when he's already beaten it to death, and all it seems like he's trying to do is either put him down, or say I told you so. Unless I'm mistaken, in that rookie thread, he seemed to be the one always bringing Oden up when his name wasn't even being mentioned at the time. Just let it rest.


----------



## Prolific Scorer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Yeah but Najee has told you numerous times why he made the thread in the first place. I believe Basel (sucks) was the poster who wanted it turned into it's own thread. :shrug:


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Prolific Scorer said:


> Yeah but Najee has told you numerous times why he made the thread in the first place. I believe Basel (sucks) was the poster who wanted it turned into it's own thread. :shrug:


But again, that's not my point at all. I know Basel mentioned this, I've even said that. My point is, what more needs to be said? Certainly not enough to warrant a thread. He beat the issue to death himself, and the only reason why Basel mentioned it was because he kept bringing it up. What honestly could someone accomplish with this thread? Did he expect a positive discussion when making this? The only people speaking on the issue were him, rocketeer and boostrenf, and it was discussed ad naseum already. He just comes off like he wants to put him down.


----------



## Prolific Scorer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> But again, that's not my point at all. I know Basel mentioned this, I've even said that. My point is, what more needs to be said? Certainly not enough to warrant a thread. He beat the issue to death himself, and the only reason why Basel mentioned it was because he kept bringing it up. What honestly could someone accomplish with this thread? Did he expect a positive discussion when making this? The only people speaking on the issue were him, rocketeer and boostrenf, and it was discussed ad naseum already. He just comes off like he wants to put him down.


I think Basel wanted it into it's own thread because it generated so much discussion, which I believe was the intended purpose for the thread in the first place....for general NBA discussion.

Like it or not, it's a legitimate argument / thread.

I think you're the one taking it too personal IMHO.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Prolific Scorer said:


> I think Basel wanted it into it's own thread because it generated so much discussion, which I believe was the intended purpose for the thread in the first place....for general NBA discussion.
> 
> Like it or not, it's a legitimate argument / thread.
> 
> I think you're the one taking it too personal IMHO.


You're still missing my point. It didn't generate discussion, Najee kept bring his name up and only for negative purposes. That's where my problem lies.

Also, what's the legitimate argument? What's even the argument? It doesn't look like a debate at all, just Najee trying to call out Oden.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> we have been over this chan. when you miss your rookie year due to a surgery and it's only your second season, you are going to have missed a high percentage of your games. of course, oden has missed less games than brand has the past two seasons.


Okay. Who thinks Greg Oden is just as injury-prone as Elton Brand?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Chan said:


> Okay. Who thinks Greg Oden is just as injury-prone as Elton Brand?


for the last two years brand has missed more time.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> for the last two years brand has missed more time.


Yeah, I know. The question remains.


----------



## Najee

*Mr. Glass plays like Mr. ****



Prolific Scorer said:


> [email protected] coming to the defense of Greg Oden like someone killed his cat...
> 
> 
> It's legitimate NBA discussion, I know you guys are upset about Oden's career so far after all the hoopla that was spat the last two offseasons, but I doubt it's anything personal.


Exactly. I created this thread because Basel asked me to move Greg Oden traffic away from the rookie thread. The fact that two loyalists (rocketeer and Ras) stubbornly are on the defensive speaks volumes to how emotionally tied up they are in Oden's success.

BTW, great game vs. Houston on Sunday: 4 points, 0 rebounds and 4 fouls in 11 minutes.


----------



## Ras

*Re: Mr. Glass plays like Mr. ****



Najee said:


> Exactly. I created this thread because Basel asked me to move Greg Oden traffic away from the rookie thread. The fact that two loyalists (rocketeer and Ras) stubbornly are on the defensive speaks volumes to how emotionally tied up they are in Oden's success.
> 
> BTW, great game vs. Houston on Sunday: 4 points, 0 rebounds and 4 fouls in 11 minutes.


I'm no loyalist, I don't even watch him play. I'm not a fan and only rarely get a Portland game in Canada. In fact I've said that in this thread already, so I find it strange that you would say that.

But by posting and bumping this thread you completely support the theory that you're just doing it to bring him down or say "I told you so." The only Greg Oden traffic in that thread was started and continued by you through negative comments. It was a self-perpetuating issue that you continue to want to push when not many others seem to care. I've said this a million times now, but nothing else can really be said on the issue.


----------



## Prolific Scorer

*Re: Mr. Glass plays like Mr. ****



Ras said:


> But by posting and bumping this thread you completely support the theory that you're just doing it to bring him down or say "I told you so." The only Greg Oden traffic in that thread was started and continued by you through negative comments. It was a self-perpetuating issue that you continue to want to push when not many others seem to care. I've said this a million times now, but nothing else can really be said on the issue.


Yeah but it's not like there has been much positive for Greg Oden this season, he's had a disappointing season to say the least.


----------



## Pimped Out

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I will never understand why this board loves calling players injury prone. I don't see the point of trying to condemn a guy for his entire career because of two injuries.


----------



## OdenRoyLMA2

*Re: Mr. Glass plays like Mr. ****



Najee said:


> Exactly. I created this thread because Basel asked me to move Greg Oden traffic away from the rookie thread. The fact that two loyalists (rocketeer and Ras) stubbornly are on the defensive speaks volumes to how emotionally tied up they are in Oden's success.
> 
> BTW, great game vs. Houston on Sunday: 4 points, 0 rebounds and 4 fouls in 11 minutes.


You are clearly *no personal attacks* with an agenda, bumping this thread every time Oden has a bad game. Pathetic. I can never understand why so many people are rooting for this kid to fail.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

They're not rooting for him to fail. It's just that Oden really had some red flags coming into the League.... But it's not just that, either. It seemed like anyone who even questioned anything about Oden b4 the season got soo much hate for even being a little bit skeptical and Oden fans/homers were soo dam arrogant & cocky. 

Now, when alot of those projections were somewhat accurate, you have to expect some people to rub in the Blazers face a little because of how cocky they were about Oden & how ridiculous the claims were about him before he ever even played one game... It's the elitist manner in which alot of Oden homers treated others regarding the Oden hype, which is now similar to the treatment they're getting in return in his humble beginnings.

I actually like Oden & he played my Gators twice in college, so I had a good perspective on him, but I was called a hater numerous times for giving my honest opinion of him based on what I saw and not based on hype. Well, turns out that pretty much everything I brought up concerning Oden was pretty spot on. That wasn't me rooting for him to fail, that was me giving an honest evaluation that wasnt blindly following the hype.


----------



## Ras

*Re: Mr. Glass plays like Mr. ****



Prolific Scorer said:


> Yeah but it's not like there has been much positive for Greg Oden this season, he's had a disappointing season to say the least.


I never said otherwise. If anything, that's exactly what I'm getting at. That issue has been beaten to death, we all know he's been disappointing. What else can really be said?


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> They're not rooting for him to fail. It's just that Oden really had some red flags coming into the League.... But it's not just that, either. It seemed like anyone who even questioned anything about Oden b4 the season got soo much hate for even being a little bit skeptical and Blazer fans were soo dam arrogant & cocky.
> 
> Now, when alot of those projections were somewhat accurate, you have to expect some people to rub in the Blazers face a little because of how cocky they were about Oden & how ridiculous the claims were about him before he ever even played one game... It's the elitist manner in which alot of Blazer fans treated others regarding the Oden hype, which is now similar to the treatment they're getting in return.
> 
> I actually like Oden & he played my Gators twice in college saw I had a good perspective on him, but I was called a hater numerous times for giving my honest opinion of him based on what I saw and not based on hype. Well, turns out that pretty much everything I brought up concerning Oden was pretty spot on. That wasn't me rooting for him to fail, that was me giving an honest evaluations, that wasnt blindly following the hype.


I honestly do understand that, I really do; Blazers fans were so elitist about it and it upset me too. All the Blazers fans have left though this board though, and it has already been brought up so many times that, like I said, nothing else really needs to be said. People have been saying it all year, and all of last year. Is there anything else to even add to the matter?

Also, I guess I'm not one to want to rub something in someone's face, or in Najee's case, try and highlight every negative about a man I can. Maybe that's why this upsets me now.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^Yeah, true. I can see what your saying... I just think this whole thing was triggered from a discussion between Najee and one current Oden fan in particular though, moreso than Najee just going out of his way to blast on Oden for thrills. I may be wrong tho, idk, but I think they both kept goin @ each other in that thread so Basel(sucks) told them to just make a new thread about it, already.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> ^Yeah, true. I can see what your saying... I just think this whole thing was triggered from a discussion between Najee and one current Oden fan in particular though, moreso than Najee just going out of his way to blast on Oden for thrills. I may be wrong tho, idk, but I think they both kept goin @ each other in that thread so Basel(sucks) told them to just make a new thread about it, already.


Ok, that does sound fair. I guess I just don't like it when someone seems to want to put someone down, but you may be right and I should probably just let it rest.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: Mr. Glass plays like Mr. ****



Najee said:


> Exactly. I created this thread because Basel asked me to move Greg Oden traffic away from the rookie thread. The fact that two loyalists (rocketeer and Ras) stubbornly are on the defensive speaks volumes to how emotionally tied up they are in Oden's success.
> 
> BTW, great game vs. Houston on Sunday: 4 points, 0 rebounds and 4 fouls in 11 minutes.


where were you when oden put up 8 and 8 against oklahoma city in 16 minutes?
or when he put up 12 and 8 against utah in 11 minutes?
or when he put up 12 and 9 against memphis in 22 minutes?

you only stop by to post when you see oden have a stat line that isn't good?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> They're not rooting for him to fail. It's just that Oden really had some red flags coming into the League.... But it's not just that, either. It seemed like anyone who even questioned anything about Oden b4 the season got soo much hate for even being a little bit skeptical and Oden fans/homers were soo dam arrogant & cocky.


najee absolutely is rooting for oden to fail.



> ^Yeah, true. I can see what your saying... I just think this whole thing was triggered from a discussion between Najee and one current Oden fan in particular though, moreso than Najee just going out of his way to blast on Oden for thrills. I may be wrong tho, idk, but I think they both kept goin @ each other in that thread so Basel(sucks) told them to just make a new thread about it, already.


i assume you're talking about me, but that just isn't true. najee is the one continuously bringing up greg oden(and as i indicated in my previous post, only when oden has a bad game. he ignores the good ones as if they don't exist). najee absolutely is just going out of his way to blast oden whenever the opportunity presents itself. and that's fine. him being unable to acknowledge the good in oden's play tells me enough about him and i look forward to seeing what he has to say in the next year or two when he is completely proven wrong.


----------



## Najee

*Re: Mr. Glass plays like Mr. ****



OdenRoyLMA2 said:


> You are clearly *no personal attacks* with an agenda, bumping this thread every time Oden has a bad game. Pathetic. I can never understand why so many people are rooting for this kid to fail.


This is coming from someone with Greg Oden's name as part of his handle. Not exactly the most objective of people, I see.


----------



## HKF

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Najee believes in schadenfreude, so he's going to continue to root against Oden, simply because his life is so pathetic. Let him have his fun.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Also, I guess I'm not one to want to rub something in someone's face, or in Najee's case, try and highlight every negative about a man I can. Maybe that's why this upsets me now.


1.) I didn't read any or all of the Greg Oden threads that were on this board, or even paid attention to the Oden threads when I created this thread. Not that I have to check in with you, but I rarely create threads on this board.

2.) A moderator asked me to create a separate thread on Oden, since the talk was taking away from the rookie thread.

3.) You need to articulate better your concern about the thread, which was more about another Greg Oden thread (to which I mostly did not pay attention). You assumed something more than that.

4.) It's a fair and timely topic -- Oden's injuries, among his other red flags that make it mystifying about the potential supposedly seen in him.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HKF said:


> Najee believes in schadenfreude, so he's going to continue to root against Oden, simply because his life is so pathetic. Let him have his fun.


Yeah, a pathetic life -- as a small business owner, I likely make far more money than you do living off your parents or with some roommates. Let's compare clothing, retirement plan statements and tax returns and see who is the real loser.

But I'm sure you're going to tell me that someone who has time to post 38,000-plus times on a basketball Web site has it going on, right?


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> 1.) I didn't read any or all of the Greg Oden threads that were on this board, or even paid attention to the Oden threads when I created this thread. Not that I have to check in with you, but I rarely create threads on this board.
> 
> 2.) A moderator asked me to create a separate thread on Oden, since the talk was taking away from the rookie thread.
> 
> 3.) You need to articulate better your concern about the thread, which was more about another Greg Oden thread (to which I mostly did not pay attention). You assumed something more than that.
> 
> 4.) It's a fair and timely topic -- Oden's injuries, among his other red flags that make it mystifying about the potential supposedly see in him.


Do you realize you ignore almost everything I say? You perpetuated the issue. There were no other threads on Oden in recent history. The only talk in the rookie thread was created by you, and you were only asked to create a new thread because you personally filled the rookie thread with Oden.

In terms of number 3, there was no other thread I'm talking about, I'm talking about you creating a self-perpetuating issue. You're the only one who continually brings him up and only when he does poorly so you can put him down or say "I told you so."

In terms of 4, it's been said for the past 2 years again and again, how is it timely? Also, how is it timely only when he has poor games? You never say a word when he plays ok. Besides, we all know he's been disappointing.

What else really needs to be said, or really, can be said, that hasn't been said already?


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Yeah, a pathetic life -- as a small business owner, I likely far more money than you do living off your parents or with some roommates. Let's compare clothing, retirement plan statements and tax returns and see who is the real loser.
> 
> But I'm sure you're going to tell me that someone who has time to post 38,000-plus times on a basketball Web site has it going on, right?


I don't let money or material possessions define my happiness and peace of mind, and if you do, I think you have a thing or two to think about. Maybe I'm mad and it's just me though.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Do you realize you ignore almost everything I say? You perpetuated the issue. There were no other threads on Oden in recent history. The only talk in the rookie thread was created by you, and you were only asked to create a new thread because you personally filled the rookie thread with Oden.


Again, whining. I'm sorry I didn't comb through the dozens of threads on this Web site and asked you for approval. Seriously, if you don't like the thread DON'T POST.

It's a simple as that. 

Instead, you're whining "Why did you create another Greg Oden thread?"



Ras said:


> I don't let money or material possessions define my happiness and peace of mind, and if you do, I think you have a thing or two to think about. Maybe I'm mad and it's just me though.


You're 21 years old. YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO OWN AT THAT AGE. That's a throwaway response from someone who can't identify.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Again, whining. I'm sorry I didn't comb through the dozens of threads on this Web site and asked you for approval. Seriously, if you don't like the thread DON'T POST.
> 
> It's a simple as that.
> 
> Instead, you're whining "Why did you create another Greg Oden thread?"


No, that's what I'm saying at all, and you have yet to answer a single question I've proposed. You make up overall responses instead actually replying to what I'm saying, and then insinuate that I'm doing something negative. I didn't say I didn't "why did you create another Greg Oden thread." To save myself from writing it again and again, now I'm just going to quote myself because I've already answered this, and all you're doing is ignoring me and repeating yourself.



> You perpetuated the issue. There were no other threads on Oden in recent history. The only talk in the rookie thread was created by you, and you were only asked to create a new thread because you personally filled the rookie thread with Oden.
> 
> In terms of number 3, there was no other thread I'm talking about, I'm talking about you creating a self-perpetuating issue. You're the only one who continually brings him up and only when he does poorly so you can put him down or say "I told you so."
> 
> In terms of 4, it's been said for the past 2 years again and again, how is it timely? Also, how is it timely only when he has poor games? You never say a word when he plays ok. Besides, we all know he's been disappointing.
> 
> What else really needs to be said, or really, can be said, that hasn't been said already?






> You're 21 years old. YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO OWN AT THAT AGE. That's a throwaway response from someone who can't identify.


What makes you think I can't identify because I'm young? And are you saying my possessions will define me when I'm older? I know that's not the case. I've found what brings me peace in my life, and it's nothing material and it never will be regardless of what you think.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> What makes you think I can't identify because I'm young? And are you saying my possessions will define me when I'm older? I know that's not the case. I've found what brings me peace in my life, and it's nothing material and it never will be regardless of what you think.


No one said anything about possessions "defining" anyone, except someone who jumped into another person's conversation and still living on his parents' support. Call me when you grow up, and stop whining about a thread to which you volunteer to post on and acting like people have to validate anything with you.

Unless you want to discuss the thread, I really don't see the point of people answering your questions and you're still stuck on asking the same questions.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Prolific Scorer said:


> Yeah but Najee has told you numerous times why he made the thread in the first place. I believe Basel (sucks) was the poster who wanted it turned into it's own thread. :shrug:


Yeah, I'm trying to see why this guy is so emotionally invested in someone creating a thread about Greg Oden. He says he's not an Oden apologist, and yet he stubbornly asks the same question I and others have answered.

Moreover, he's not a moderator and if the moderators have a problem with the thread they can lock it or delete. It's a legitimate thread about Oden's injuries, so it's simple to me -- talk about the thread or simply don't answer.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> No one said anything about possessions "defining" anyone, except someone who jumped into another person's conversation and still living on his parents' support.


I was speaking about this....



> I likely make far more money than you do living off your parents or with some roommates. Let's compare clothing, retirement plan statements and tax returns and see who is the real loser.


If that defines what makes you a loser or not, that in and of itself would somehow define and validate who you are, when in my opinion, that has no bearing on who you are at all. If you feel your clothing, retirement plan or tax returns somehow make you not a "loser," or a better person, then I can't agree with your outlook on life at all; in fact I stand on a completely opposite plane of thought. I find peace of mind and happiness simply by being alive and experiencing some form of experience, whatever it may be. I don't care what people think of me because this is who I am, and I'm completely comfortable with myself. My financial situation, my clothing, none of that will have any bearing on where I feel I stand in life. The only reason why I need money is to give myself food and shelter, for me, and my future family. I'm happy to simply be.



> Call me when you grow up, and stop whining about a thread to which you volunteer to post on and acting like people have to validate anything with you.


What gives you the impression I'm looking for validation? What gives you the impression that I haven't grown up at all?



> Unless you want to discuss the thread, I really don't see the point of people answering your questions and you're still stuck on asking the same questions.


Because you never answered any of the questions I've asked. Also, my questions are relevant to the topic at hand in some manner.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Yeah, I'm trying to see why this guy is so emotionally invested in someone creating a thread about Greg Oden. He says he's not an Oden apologist, and yet he stubbornly asks the same question I and others have answered.




You, and no one else, answered my questions. Here's an example....

What more needs to be said that hasn't been said already?



> Moreover, he's not a moderator and if the moderators have a problem with the thread they can lock it or delete. It's a legitimate thread about Oden's injuries, so it's simple to me -- talk about the thread or simply don't answer.


I don't have a problem with the thread. I have a problem with the fact that you're the only one pushing the issue strictly for negative purposes. These same things have been said for the past 2 years, what else can really be added other then furthering negativity?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Ooohhh, the Zen philosophy from someone's tax dependent. Let's just say I got credit cards older than you and leave it at that.

Sorry, your questions aren't relevant BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN ANSWERED. Move on or continue to whine.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Ooohhh, the Zen philosophy from someone's tax dependent. Let's just say I got credit cards older than you and leave it at that.




Again, I don't care about your credit cards. I find it incredibly disrespectful for you to diminish my opinion on life because I am young. Is there something wrong with me approaching my life as I do? Am I less valid because I'm not currently living on my own? How does what I said have any bearing on my financial situation?



> Sorry, your questions aren't relevant BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN ANSWERED. Move on or continue to whine.


They have not been answered. Show me once where you answered this question...

What more needs to be said that hasn't been said?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> You, and no one else, answered my questions. Here's an example....
> 
> What more needs to be said that hasn't been said already?


Whether people want to have a discussion on the issue or not will be based on whether or not they post responses. I'm sorry that I didn't go through the previous two years to dig up old threads or seek your approval, but if people don't want to speak on the issue it will fall like the other threads.

Again, the question you need to ask yourself is why are you so emotionally invested. I certainly was not part of most of those Greg Oden discussions, so your point falls on deaf ears. 

Here is a quick question to ask yourself: Were you this sensitive on the numerous Dywane Wade threads created in the past two years? The Michael Jordan-Kobe Bryant comparisons? Or the LeBron James threads? What about Shaquille O'Neal's? The numerous threads created about XYZ player, such as Dwight Howard? 

Because if you're selectively whining about a thread about one player who is discussed on this board with any regularity and not the numerous Kobe/LeBron/D-Wade/Shaq/Jordan-type threads, it does seem you're emotionally attached to one player for whatever reason.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Again, I don't care about your credit cards. I find it incredibly disrespectful for you to diminish my opinion on life because I am young. Is there something wrong with me approaching my life as I do? Am I less valid because I'm not currently living on my own? How does what I said have any bearing on my financial situation?


You got diminished by jumping into someone else's conversation, and try some BS twist in materialism when the comments were in regards to someone trying to argue that I was "a loser" when the person who made the response has, what, 38,000 posts on a Web site?

Sounds like to me that "losers" are people who spend an inordinate amount of time posting on the Internet, because their lives are real jokes. Personally, I rather be someone who works for a living than an Internet tough guy whose only existence is anonymity.


----------



## Futurama_Fanatic

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

lol this conversation is too ****ing funny


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You got diminished by jumping into someone else's conversation, and try some BS twist in materialism when the comments were in regards to someone trying to argue that I was "a loser" when the person who made the response has, what, 38,000 posts on a Web site?
> 
> Sounds like to me that "losers" are people who spend an inordinate amount of time posting on the Internet, because their lives are real jokes. Personally, I rather be someone who works for a living than an Internet tough guy whose only existence is anonymity.


it's always funny when people spend time posting on the internet to tell people that they are a joke for spending time posting on the internet.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Keep it up, rocketeer. One day you actually will say something that makes sense. I don't believe I have yet to read a sensible post you have made.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Keep it up, rocketeer. One day you actually will say something that makes sense. I don't believe I have yet to read a sensible post you have made.


still no response to my previous post about you ignoring any time oden plays well and only show up when he has a bad game?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> still no response to my previous post about you ignoring any time oden plays well and only show up when he has a bad game?


I don't ignore when Greg Oden plays relatively well. The problem is that Oden's performance for the year is hardly worth the passes he gets for being (for now) a subpar player who can't put Joel Pryzbilla on the bench.

In addition to your rather lack of common sense, I like how you like to overlook facts. For instance, you going on about Oden scoring 12 points and 8 rebounds vs. Utah on March 31. You want to gloss over that Oden picked up four fouls in 11 minutes. Or going 3-for-9 from the field vs. Memphis vs. Memphis, in addition to picking up his customary four fouls in 22 minutes.

In addition to the injury history, there still are many other warts with Oden's game. You keep going on about those cherry-picked games, but that is the bare minimum (and really, somewhat below that) for what he should be doing. Really, Tree Rollins (another foul-prone rookie) put up similar points and rebound averages as a rookie and blocked more shots than Oden as a first-year player. At times, Oden looks lost and terrible out there.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I don't ignore when Greg Oden plays relatively well. The problem is that Oden's performance for the year is hardly worth the passes he gets for being (for now) a subpar player who can't put Joel Pryzbilla on the bench.
> 
> In addition to your rather lack of common sense, I like how you like to overlook facts. For instance, you going on about Oden scoring 12 points and 8 rebounds vs. Utah on March 31. You want to gloss over that Oden picked up four fouls in 11 minutes. Or going 3-for-9 from the field vs. Memphis vs. Memphis, in addition to picking up his customary four fouls in 22 minutes.
> 
> In addition to the injury history, there still are many other warts with Oden's game. You keep going on about those cherry-picked games, but that is the bare minimum (and really, somewhat below that) for what he should be doing. Really, Tree Rollins (another foul-prone rookie) put up similar points and rebound averages as a rookie and blocked more shots than Oden as a first-year player. At times, Oden looks lost and terrible out there.


to you, the bare minimum you expect from oden is 12 and 8 in 11 minutes, but you talk as if others have unrealistic expectations for him?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> to you, the bare minimum you expect from oden is 12 and 8 in 11 minutes, but you talk as if others have unrealistic expectations for him?


Seriously, are you really that dense that you have to try to warp words to try to make a point? I didn't say anything regarding that and anyone with an eighth-grade education can realize you're inventing your own arguments.

To me, Greg Oden is showing pretty much what he was at Ohio State -- fragile, foul prone, lethargic except on a dunk, totally devoid of any offensive skills. In fact, he pretty much has met my expectations with how he played this season -- a fragile version of Tree Rollins, save Tree was more of a defensive force.


----------



## HKF

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

EDIT- Don't make one more post like this in this thread. If you have nothing constructive to say, don't post


----------



## dubc15

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

right..


----------



## Pimped Out

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Ooohhh, the Zen philosophy from someone's tax dependent. Let's just say I got credit cards older than you and leave it at that.
> 
> Sorry, your questions aren't relevant BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN ANSWERED. Move on or continue to whine.


yeah, you put these young whippersnappers in their place. 

every generation younger than mine sucks

*shakes fist*


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Seriously, are you really that dense that you have to try to warp words to try to make a point? I didn't say anything regarding that and anyone with an eighth-grade education can realize you're inventing your own arguments.
> 
> To me, Greg Oden is showing pretty much what he was at Ohio State -- fragile, foul prone, lethargic except on a dunk, totally devoid of any offensive skills. In fact, he pretty much has met my expectations with how he played this season -- a fragile version of Tree Rollins, save Tree was more of a defensive force.


this is an exact quote from you:



> You keep going on about those cherry-picked games, but that is the bare minimum (and really, somewhat below that) for what he should be doing.


and that was in response to me bring up his 8 and 8 in 16, 12 and 8 in 11, and 12 and 9 in 22. so yes, i guess i am that dense(for bringing up 3 of the last 4 games. you are the one who cherry picked the one. i'm going with the 3 of 4). you said that those are numbers you expect from him. if you average those 3 games it comes to 11 and 8 in 16 minutes. if that is the absolutely minimum that you expect from him(as you have said), then you are absolutely crazy.

he has shown what he has shown at ohio state. that he is a once every decade or so big man. he's foul prone right now. but part of that goes away as soon as he isn't a rookie. some of it goes away as he gets more experience. and some of it goes away as he gets more of a "reputation" of being a good defensive player. and then suddenly there are no more foul problems.

and to say that he's devoid of offensive skills when he's scoring as efficiently as he is while commanding double teams because most teams can't stop him one on one is just absolutely moronic. but i won't expect most people to realize it's happening until espn tells them it's ok just like them finally accepting lebron's defense and that yao is actually a good player.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> this is an exact quote from you:
> 
> and that was in response to me bring up his 8 and 8 in 16, 12 and 8 in 11, and 12 and 9 in 22. so yes, i guess i am that dense(for bringing up 3 of the last 4 games. you are the one who cherry picked the one. i'm going with the 3 of 4). you said that those are numbers you expect from him.


The fact is you continually want to overlook that Greg Oden can't stay on the floor because he is very foul prone. Just like you want to overlook that as a No. 1 overall pick playing a traditionally thin position who supposedly is this potential star, he should average those numbers easily.

The problem is that 12 points and 9 rebounds is actually _overachieving_ for Oden. Hell, Tree Rollins had those type of games. For that matter, Michael Olowokandi had a _season_ where he put up those numbers. The problem I (and apparently others) have with you is that seem to want the bar lowered for Odom than for other players, including other rookies.



rocketeer said:


> he has shown what he has shown at ohio state. that he is a once every decade or so big man. he's foul prone right now.


Oden is the same player he was at Ohio State -- no offensive game, foul prone, brittle, lethargic. He reminds me a lot of guys like Tree Rollins and Benoit Benjamin. 

You're insane if you feel that he is comparable to other elite centers at that age, because I cannot think of another "once-in-a-decade" center who has stunk it up in his first year the way Oden has. In fact, name one elite center whose first year has been as bad as Oden's, all things considered (draft selection, practically guaranteed large minutes).



rocketeer said:


> and to say that he's devoid of offensive skills when he's scoring as efficiently as he is while commanding double teams because most teams can't stop him one on one is just absolutely moronic.


His offensive game is little more than a dunk. The vast majority of his field goals are within five feet. You can't point out a particular offensive move he has, such as a hook in the lane, a turnaround shot on the block, anything. Apparently, you look at his field-goal percentage and think, "Oh, he must a great shooter." Unless you know something that NBA scouts don't know, which I find to be a major stretch.


----------



## Tom

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I think he should always play with his left hand only.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Tom said:


> I think he should always play with his left hand only.


yeah especially @ the FT line. :laugh:


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The fact is you continually want to overlook that Greg Oden can't stay on the floor because he is very foul prone. Just like you want to overlook that as a No. 1 overall pick playing a traditionally thin position who supposedly is this potential star, he should average those numbers easily.


no, that isn't true at all. i've acknowledged many times that oden has had a disappointing season and that his biggest problem is that he hasn't been able to stay on the court. that is definitely a problem and something oden has to work on. however, while oden is on the court he's very productive.



> Apparently, you look at his field-goal percentage and think, "Oh, he must a great shooter." Unless you know something that NBA scouts don't know, which I find to be a major stretch.


no, unlike you who just checks boxscores every once in a while and cherry picks oden's bad games to bring up this discussion again, i actually watch the games.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> no, unlike you who just checks boxscores every once in a while and cherry picks oden's bad games to bring up this discussion again, i actually watch the games.


You evidently don't know what you're watching if you actually come out of your mouth with "Greg Oden" and "once-in-a-decade center." Unless you consider Tree Rollins a "once-in-a-decade center," of whom Oden reminds me based on seeing him play at Ohio State and Portland.

I don't have to cherry-pick Oden's bad games because he consistently has bad games. And moreover, the thing I notice is that Oden actually doesn't seem to be getting better.


----------



## GNG

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If you get to bite Danny Ainge, that's a pretty good career.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You evidently don't know what you're watching if you actually come out of your mouth with "Greg Oden" and "once-in-a-decade center." Unless you consider Tree Rollins a "once-in-a-decade center," of whom Oden reminds me based on seeing him play at Ohio State and Portland.
> 
> I don't have to cherry-pick Oden's bad games because he consistently has bad games. And moreover, the thing I notice is that Oden actually doesn't seem to be getting better.


how many time are you going to bring up that oden reminds you of tree rollins? and who cares that oden's rookie season would basically be the best year of tree rollins career, right?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Cinco de Mayo said:


> If you get to bite Danny Ainge, that's a pretty good career.


He bit Danny's finger half off. When you get to go full frontal Tyson on Danny Ainge you've had a great career.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> how many time are you going to bring up that oden reminds you of tree rollins? and who cares that oden's rookie season would basically be the best year of tree rollins career, right?


Actually, we're comparing Greg Oden's rookie season to Tree Rollins' rookie season. Maybe you need to stop twisting words and try to figure out how a "once-in-a-decade center" is having a hard time beating out Joel Pryzbilla for playing time.

After all, it's not like you saw Tree play.


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Seems like a lot of people want to rip Oden because he was number 1 pick ahead of Durant. Durant's turned into a star and Oden hasn't just yet. But and it's a big but Oden has been when he's playing a very productive player. I don't see a physical reason why Oden can't learn to avoid fouls and in addition his one bad stat is his TO rate and that traditionally goes down.

A rookie center with a PER of 18.1 and a high shooting percentage isn't that common. Sure guys like Shaq and David Robinson were higher but it around what Ewing produced when he played in his rookie year.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He's can make highlight plays when he's on the court, but he's nowhere near what he should be. They talked about him as much as Lebron or OJ. Was said to remind people of Bill Russell. For him, being unable to start over Joel Pryzbilla is utterly embarrassing. Folks have been going ape**** over him ever since he slapped the backboard with both hands after a dunk in SL. Now he's getting role player minutes. Until he starts to dominate on a consistent level, he deserves every bit of criticism he receives.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It's not just that Oden was the #1 pick... It's imo largely the Blazer/Oden fans fault for setting themselves up for this. 

Anyone remember Blazer fans telling stories of how Oden was more hyped than LBJ coming outta HS and how that therefore meant that his impact from day one would be just as great if not greater than Lebron's? Anyone remember that thread where Oden was projected as like the 10th best center for this season, and many Blazer/Oden fans threw a fit about how he should be ranked as high as the 3rd best center behind Dwight & Yao(as soon as this season!). Anyone who tried to talk them down to moderate expectations got blasted and dismissed as a hater... 

They built up his hype to uncharted levels and so much higher than what his game really was based on his performance on the court. The fact is, he was/is a great prospect(albeit injury prone) who was/is gonna take a some time to adjust to the NBA game... I tried to tell them this. His foul problems are nothing new & were an issue since college. If you didn't fall in line with the hype that they had built him up to tho, then you would get blasted. That has now led to everyone who got blasted in the past, to being bitter to either Oden or Oden fans... I dont think it's anything Oden did personally, because he's not a bad talent. It's just that the hype that he was built up to was so ridiculous, that some of us who were skeptical from the beginning are like, really? This is what the hype was about?? I mean, they made it seem like he was gonna be posting 15/10 and averaging like 2-3 blks/per(@ the minimum) from jumpstreet. What he's doing now, though not terrible, is far from the immediate impact that he was hyped to have as a rookie.


----------



## HKF

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

There is a difference between wanting Oden to succeed and thinking he's going to be a superstar. For one, 7'0 footers are a *****ly subject because they are literally freaks of nature. I root for Bynum, Hibbert, Oden, Thabeet, Hawes, Lopez and any other would be centers because the game needs these guys. The last thing the league needs to be all small ball, all the time. 

The reason why I can't write off Oden is because at 21, his rookie numbers aren't bad. Not to mention the fouls he picks up are indicative of being a rookie big man. Hibbert picks up more ticky-tack fouls than any big man in the league and when watching him, it's obviously because he is a rookie. The refs don't respect rookie big man which is so stupid, but that's just the way it is.

I would caution that even though Oden has been a disappointment thus far, the success of Oden's career has never been about whether he would be a 20/10 dominator ala David Robinson, but whether he'd be a defensive stalwart that gave 16/12 with 3.5 blocks per game and anchored one of the best defenses in the league. A lot of us were judging Oden on how many championships he would help Portland win. 

I also said to Portland fans as soon as he was drafted to not expect a championship till when Oden was somewhere around the age of 25. Big men don't just come into the league and lead their teams to titles like that. Tim Duncan is the exception. Dwight Howard's best years are going to be when he's 25-31 and he hasn't hit them yet. So I would let Oden's career take a natural course rather than hoping he fails as much as Najee seems to.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I just bookmarked this thread to revisit two years from now.

If Najee knows basketball as much as he claims and has been watching basketball for years, I think it would go without saying that it takes players, especially big men in their rookie year time to develop.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^I wish you Oden fans would've been so understanding before the season... I hated you guys before the season, lol.  I tried to told em! But like you said, it's too early to count him out completely. Give him some time. I say @ least around 2-3 for him to get to the place he needs to be to be considered a great big. 

I see two ways he can develop.... He can go the way of Dwight Howard and be a physical beast on both ends, or he can go the way of Emeka Okafor and just be a defensive big and a mediocre offensive player. We shall see.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Question: If Benjamin Button injured his knees when he was an old kid would it heal when he was in his 40's (his twenties?) Think about it. Oden LOOKS like a 50 year old, but is only 20. So maybe he's growing YOUNGER. I forsee fifteen years of domination in the NBA by Oden and his beard if my theory is correct. Otherwise he'll be injury plagued his whole career. 

As for the microfracture surgery, Amare had the same surgery in 2005, when he was 23.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> ^I wish you Oden fans would've been so understanding before the season... I hated you guys before the season, lol.  I tried to told em! But like you said, it's too early to count him out completely. Give him some time. I say @ least around 2-3 for him to get to the place he needs to be to be considered a great big.
> 
> I see two ways he can develop.... He can go the way of Dwight Howard and be a physical beast on both ends, or he can go the way of Emeka Okafor and just be a defensive big and a mediocre offensive player. We shall see.


That's the main thing. People actually want to see Greg Oden _earn_ these props he's gotten, instead of people constantly making up excuses for his lackluster play at Ohio State and Portland so far.

I'm like you on the "hater" logic -- which is ironic, considering I've been a Blazers fans since the days of Clyde Drexler. It simply sounds like a group of rabid apologists who are too thin-skinned to take anything remotely resembling criticism of Oden.

Zagsfan said "I think it would go without saying that it takes players, especially big men in their rookie year time to develop." Maybe that could be the case with Oden, but it would be atypical compared to the elite big men in NBA history with whom Oden is constantly compared. Historically, stud centers don't come into the NBA struggling and with as little tools as Oden has.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> That's the main thing. People actually want to see Greg Oden _earn_ these props he's gotten, instead of people constantly making up excuses for his lackluster play at Ohio State and Portland so far.
> 
> I'm like you on the "hater" logic -- which is ironic, considering I've been a Blazers fans since the days of Clyde Drexler. It simply sounds like a group of rabid apologists who are too thin-skinned to take anything remotely resembling criticism of Oden.
> 
> Zagsfan said "I think it would go without saying that it takes players, especially big men in their rookie year time to develop." Maybe that could be the case with Oden, but it would be atypical compared to the elite big men in NBA history with whom Oden is constantly compared. Historically, stud centers don't come into the NBA struggling and with as little tools as Oden has.


if oden has so few tools as you keep repeating over and over then how do you explain his production? he has a top 10 rebound rate in the league. he has a per over 18. if you actually watch him play you'll see teams throw double teams at him when he gets the ball in the post. he's an efficient scorer despite being assisted on less than half of his baskets. how do you explain away all those things to come to the conclusion that he has so few tools?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> It's not just that Oden was the #1 pick... It's imo largely the Blazer/Oden fans fault for setting themselves up for this.
> 
> Anyone remember Blazer fans telling stories of how Oden was more hyped than LBJ coming outta HS and how that therefore meant that his impact from day one would be just as great if not greater than Lebron's? Anyone remember that thread where Oden was projected as like the 10th best center for this season, and many Blazer/Oden fans threw a fit about how he should be ranked as high as the 3rd best center behind Dwight & Yao(as soon as this season!). Anyone who tried to talk them down to moderate expectations got blasted and dismissed as a hater...
> 
> They built up his hype to uncharted levels and so much higher than what his game really was based on his performance on the court. The fact is, he was/is a great prospect(albeit injury prone) who was/is gonna take a some time to adjust to the NBA game... I tried to tell them this. His foul problems are nothing new & were an issue since college. If you didn't fall in line with the hype that they had built him up to tho, then you would get blasted. That has now led to everyone who got blasted in the past, to being bitter to either Oden or Oden fans... I dont think it's anything Oden did personally, because he's not a bad talent. It's just that the hype that he was built up to was so ridiculous, that some of us who were skeptical from the beginning are like, really? This is what the hype was about?? I mean, they made it seem like he was gonna be posting 15/10 and averaging like 2-3 blks/per(@ the minimum) from jumpstreet. What he's doing now, though not terrible, is far from the immediate impact that he was hyped to have as a rookie.


you misremember what was actually said. people weren't talking about how oden was more hyped than lebron and that meant that he was going to be great. in reality, people were saying that oden was the best prospect to come into the league since lebron(which doesn't mean better than lebron). and it had nothing to do with "hype".

and then with the top 10 center thing, i think you are specifically talking about me. i said that i expected him to be the 3rd best center in the league(depending on how you classified duncan and amare) by the end of this season. obviously that isn't the case as oden has struggled with foul trouble and he's had a couple of injuries that have messed with his development during the year. and i didn't dismiss anyone as a hater for disagreeing with me, i just explained why i thought what i did.

the 15 and 10 with a couple of blocks were realistic expectations for oden coming into this year. he hasn't put those numbers up obviously. but look at his numbers per 36 minutes(and please actually finish reading the post before you jump on me bringing up per 36 minute numbers). 14.6 points, 11.7 rebounds, 1.9 blocks. those are in line with the 15/10/2 expectations. so he has produced like a 15/10/2 player while he's been on the court, he just hasn't been able to stay on the court long enough to actually post those averages.

we'll see where he goes from here. my guess is that next year more of his athleticism will be back since it will be his 2nd year after microfracture and he'll have the full offseason at 100% to prepare for the year. i also expect his foul trouble problem to instantly become smaller just because he is no longer a rookie and will get more respect from refs(though that alone won't get rid of the problem).


----------



## BengalDuck

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Can we stop pretending that *every* Blazers fan thought Oden would be better than Shaq the moment he stepped on the court?

Two of my quotes from about two years ago or so...



> [Oden will be] not a Shaq or Hakeem, but a better Mourning in his prime that will be an important cog for many title teams


And with regards to foul trouble/early career production...



> Also, people will be surprised at how average Oden will be this year, I believe. Sure, he'll be great and he was who I wanted to take at #1, but there will be quite a few games where he'll have 3 fouls in 12 minutes and be a complete non factor. Just the way of a developing, shot blocking center in the NBA...


Comments were before micro-fracture, too.


----------



## BengalDuck

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Right up until the All-Star break, as rookies



Code:


Howard (per 36 minutes) - 13.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.8 bpg
Oden (per 36 minutes) - 13.8 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.8 bpg

Since returning from his chipped knee, he's actually improved those Per/36 numbers to 14.6 ppg and 11.7 rpg.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not (and Sportscenter/ESPN has yet to do so, so many of you probably wouldn't either) but Oden... when he's been on the court... has been pretty dang good for a rookie center. His defense is solid, rebounding excellent, and his ability to score has been okay, too, considering he only really has one post move and we don't have any guards that run the pick-n-roll. His presence has allowed for Joel Pryzbilla to rest more and he's also played better this year, and together Portland has one of the more formidable front lines in the league.

However, there are obviously some concerns with Oden. Dude has been in foul trouble probably 80% or more of the games he's played this year, and some are bull**** calls and some are not and sometimes he gets away with fouls. Obviously the injuries. And his offensive game has a lot of work to do (although that's why he's been compared to Russell and not Shaq.) But whether or not you (yes, you) want to believe it... Oden has been a good player when he's been on the court.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Per 36 minutes is the dumbest stat in the history of the entire universe...There's a reason some guys aren't getting minutes and some are...you can't pretend its all equal.

SMH @ statheads...


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Geaux Tigers said:


> Per 36 minutes is the dumbest stat in the history of the entire universe...There's a reason some guys aren't getting minutes and some are...you can't pretend its all equal.
> 
> SMH @ statheads...


Foul trouble?


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> That's the main thing. People actually want to see Greg Oden _earn_ these props he's gotten, instead of people constantly making up excuses for his lackluster play at Ohio State and Portland so far.
> 
> I'm like you on the "hater" logic -- which is ironic, considering I've been a Blazers fans since the days of Clyde Drexler. It simply sounds like a group of rabid apologists who are too thin-skinned to take anything remotely resembling criticism of Oden.
> 
> Zagsfan said "I think it would go without saying that it takes players, especially big men in their rookie year time to develop." Maybe that could be the case with Oden, but it would be atypical compared to the elite big men in NBA history with whom Oden is constantly compared. Historically, stud centers don't come into the NBA struggling and with as little tools as Oden has.


He lead Ohio St. to the National Title game. 

As for not having tools? 7,0", explosive athletically, huge hands, long wingspan. Tell me you aren't serious.

I take it you never watched Yao Ming and Dwight Howard play their rookie years? They were both awful. As time progressed and they played more, they gained experience and got better. Its not rocket science really, you say you know the game, yet your comparing a guy who is just getting his feet wet to a complete scrub like Tree Rollins.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



zagsfan20 said:


> He lead Ohio St. to the National Title game.


To tell the truth, players like Mike Conley Jr., Dequan Cook and Ron Lewis an equal role in Ohio State's fate, if not more. There were more than a few games where Oden was in deep foul trouble, relatively ineffective and/or playing very unenthused.

Oden gets way too much credit, sometimes undue credit for things he really didn't do.



zagsfan20 said:


> As for not having tools? 7,0", explosive athletically, huge hands, long wingspan. Tell me you aren't serious.


The only times I've seen Oden display any athleticism consistently is when he is dunking. As for height and attributes related to height, it's not something he has uncommon with too many other seven-footers, much less elite centers. For instance, Benoit Benjamin had those same attributes, and at least had some offensive skills that Oden does not have.

He's not in the athletic class of elite centers in the past or present. In fact, Oden would rank below guys like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon, Wilt Chamberlain and David Robinson. There is just _way_ too much projection on Oden's behalf, when the stark reality is what has been seen of Oden -- brittle, foul-prone, no offensive skills, lethargic to at times indifferent, meager productions more often than expected of someone of his supposed caliber -- in two seasons (Ohio State and Portland) certainly doesn't merit putting him anywhere close to that neighborhood.



zagsfan20 said:


> I take it you never watched Yao Ming and Dwight Howard play their rookie years? They were both awful. As time progressed and they played more, they gained experience and got better.


Very superficial comparison, at best. A strawman at worst. 

Yao Ming struggled during the first part of his rookie season, and then his learning curve accelerated dramatically. By mid-December of his rookie season, he was much more consistent and at times dominant.

You want to compare Oden to a 19-year-old Dwight Howard, but even at that age Howard was more advanced than Oden. Howard started turning the corner in the final month of his rookie season.

Conversely, Oden is pretty much what he was at Ohio State -- which means there has not been much improvement during his rookie season. He looks like the same player I saw in November (when he was playing) that he is at the end of the season -- foul-prone, lethargic, no offensive skills.



zagsfan20 said:


> Its not rocket science really, you say you know the game, yet your comparing a guy who is just getting his feet wet to a complete scrub like Tree Rollins.


He's not better than Tree Rollins as a rookie; at least Tree was a better shot-blocking presence in his first year while putting similar production to what Oden has done. Oden is behind the likes of Benjamin at this stage, and that is not projection or hype.

It's a joke to compare Oden to elite centers, but yet you want to scoff at comparing Oden's production (not his overrated projections) to the likes of Rollins and Benjamin with whom the comparisons are apt. Looking at your age, I would say it's because you never saw Rollins and Benjamin play live, so you inexplicably use dominant players as projection models.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Geaux Tigers said:


> Per 36 minutes is the dumbest stat in the history of the entire universe...There's a reason some guys aren't getting minutes and some are...you can't pretend its all equal.
> 
> SMH @ statheads...


Exactly. In Greg Oden's case, he hasn't shown he is good or consistent enough to warrant significant minutes. The same dumb school of thought who had some people going crazy over Reggie Evans' rebound projection a few years ago.


----------



## BengalDuck

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Exactly. In Greg Oden's case, he hasn't shown he is good or consistent enough to warrant significant minutes. The same dumb school of thought who had some people going crazy over Reggie Evans' rebound projection a few years ago.




Wrong.

IIn Oden's case, he hasn't shown the ability to consistently stay out of foul trouble and to stay healthy to warrant significant minutes.

He's been good when he's played.

But you've probably only watched him in Portland's few national TV games - if at all - so I don't expect you to realize that.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Geaux Tigers said:


> Per 36 minutes is the dumbest stat in the history of the entire universe...There's a reason some guys aren't getting minutes and some are...you can't pretend its all equal.
> 
> SMH @ statheads...


it isn't the dumbest stat out there, but it definitely is dumb. but it can still help you as long as you aren't taking it to be incredibly meaningful and realize the context of it.

in this case, it shows that oden has been as productive or more productive than a rookie howard per minute on the court. it also shows that oden has been basically producing at the 15/10/2 level per 36 minutes. of course, oden isn't actually putting up those numbers because he isn't staying on the court that long. so it basically shows that oden is the player people thought he was when he is on the court, he just hasn't been able to stay on the court. if he can correct that problem(and simply not being a rookie will correct some portion of that problem), then he numbers will be where people thought they would be.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

najee again ignoring a post of mine he has no answer for. i now expect another response about tree rollins, how najee is so old, or about how he has better things to do than ever waste time on the internet.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



BengalDuck said:


> Right up until the All-Star break, as rookies
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Howard (per 36 minutes) - 13.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.8 bpg
> Oden (per 36 minutes) - 13.8 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.8 bpg
> 
> Since returning from his chipped knee, he's actually improved those Per/36 numbers to 14.6 ppg and 11.7 rpg.
> 
> Whether you want to acknowledge it or not (and Sportscenter/ESPN has yet to do so, so many of you probably wouldn't either) but Oden... when he's been on the court... has been pretty dang good for a rookie center. His defense is solid, rebounding excellent, and his ability to score has been okay, too, considering he only really has one post move and we don't have any guards that run the pick-n-roll. His presence has allowed for Joel Pryzbilla to rest more and he's also played better this year, and together Portland has one of the more formidable front lines in the league.
> 
> However, there are obviously some concerns with Oden. Dude has been in foul trouble probably 80% or more of the games he's played this year, and some are bull**** calls and some are not and sometimes he gets away with fouls. Obviously the injuries. And his offensive game has a lot of work to do (although that's why he's been compared to Russell and not Shaq.) But whether or not you (yes, you) want to believe it... Oden has been a good player when he's been on the court.


PER 36 is not a legitimate argument. Someone can play 3 minutes a game against 2nd & 3rd units and have a great PER projection and look great doing it.... 

It's one thing if he wasn't playing because a Tim Duncan or some kind of legend was playing ahead of him, but he is playing behind Joel Pryzbilla of all people & the reason he doesnt play is because of a chronic fouling issue that i've seen dating back to college and summer league. And that's not a knock Pryz, but that's just how people are looking @ the situation. Oden is not a guy that really has an excuse to only be logging 20 mpg as a backup, so PER 36 really isn't all that fitting of an argument here. I'm sure most people were actually expecting Oden to be logging aroud 30-35 mpg as is. 



> Foul trouble?


Over the course of a season, foul trouble is not a legitimate excuse.



> He lead Ohio St. to the National Title game.


People would always point to the National Title game as an example of Oden dominating. That may have been one of the most terribly one-sided officiating games i've seen. UF was pretty easily controlling the game, so they would basically give Oden/OSU the benifit of the doubt all night, while were calling UF ticky-tack just to keep the score respectable. That's all me n all my friends were saying during the game because It was so blatantly obvious. Oden would hack the **** out of Horford on one end, and the Noah would breathe on him on the other and get a quick whistle... The refs were calling two different games out there.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Foul trouble is always the player's fault first, then refs second. It's not an 'excuse'; it's another reason to criticize the player.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> PER 36 is not a legitimate argument. Someone can play 3 minutes a game against 2nd & 3rd units and have a great PER projection and look great doing it....
> 
> It's one thing if he wasn't playing because a Tim Duncan or some kind of legend was playing ahead of him, but he is playing behind Joel Pryzbilla of all people & the reason he doesnt play is because of a chronic fouling issue that i've seen dating back to college and summer league. And that's not a knock Pryz, but that's just how people are looking @ the situation. Oden is not a guy that really has an excuse to only be logging 20 mpg as a backup, so PER 36 really isn't all that fitting of an argument here. I'm sure most people were actually expecting Oden to be logging aroud 30-35 mpg as is.


your per 36 argument is stupid. no one is saying look at those numbers and saying to use them to show that he's great. they are saying that he produces per minute at about where he was expected to produce per minute(other than fouls of course).

and he's playing "behind" joel right now because they were trying to bring him back slowly after his injury. he may stay or the bench for the rest of the year because it's worked out fine for the team. the reason he isn't playing huge minutes is fouls. that's obviously a problem but let's not pretend that joel has beaten out for playing time by producing better on the court.


----------



## ballocks

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

i don't think it's a coincidence that this player is oft injured. i think it's far more probable that he gets injured again in the future than kevin durant, for example. i don't blame coincidence- i think certain body types are more prone to injury than others, and greg's is surely one of them. 

this doesn't even consider the effect that his past has had in his _head_, either. that just makes it worse. he's used to sitting out now. he's used to missing games. he's used to playing through injury, but being injured nonetheless. i don't know if this necessarily makes it more likely that he gets injured again, but i _do_ believe it has an effect on the way he plays the game and the expectations he has of himself... whether he knows it or not.

i mean, i'm playing captain obvious here but these points are still argued by some fans (for whatever reason). i remember making the same argument about grant hill back in the day and it was constantly disputed, "you can't judge him until he gets healthy!" etc. i'm like, "but he'll never _get_ healthy. and even if he does, his mind has already been crippled. he's _used_ to it."

i mean, i don't know of many exceptions at all. off the top of my head, i can hardly come up with a name (in any sport) that started his career to so many obstacles and yet flourished in _spite_ of them down the road. 

greg oden could be that guy. i'm not saying he won't- i'm just saying, the _chances are_ that he won't. his injuries have affected his past but i feel they've already portended his future somewhat as well. he could be the exception- but he's _probably_ the rule.

peace


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



ballocks said:


> i mean, i'm playing captain obvious here but these points are still argued by some fans (for whatever reason). i remember making the same argument about grant hill back in the day and it was constantly disputed, "you can't judge him until he gets healthy!" etc. i'm like, "but he'll never _get_ healthy. and even if he does, his mind has already been crippled. he's _used_ to it."


grant hill is irrelevant to this discussion. grant hill had a completely ****ed up ankle. what body part of greg oden's is going to cause him serious problems for the rest of his career? if you can't answer that, then grant hill is not someone you can compare his injuries to.

he can be compared to guys like yao, bynum, and amare would have had multiple unfortunate but unrelated injuries. it sucks when it happens, but as long as it's something that is going to heal and not cause reoccurring problems, it really is dumb to pretend that he's going to continue having them for the remainder of his career.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> That's the main thing. People actually want to see Greg Oden _earn_ these props he's gotten, instead of people constantly making up excuses for his lackluster play at Ohio State and Portland so far.
> 
> I'm like you on the "hater" logic -- which is ironic, considering I've been a Blazers fans since the days of Clyde Drexler. It simply sounds like a group of rabid apologists who are too thin-skinned to take anything remotely resembling criticism of Oden.
> 
> Zagsfan said "I think it would go without saying that it takes players, especially big men in their rookie year time to develop." Maybe that could be the case with Oden, but it would be atypical compared to the elite big men in NBA history with whom Oden is constantly compared. Historically, stud centers don't come into the NBA struggling and with as little tools as Oden has.


Lackluster play at Ohio State? Really? That's downright laughable.

First off, you keep talking about him not being to knock off Joel as the starter. Here's some news for you buddy, Oden has started 39 of his 56 games. Joel has started 38 of 77. Besides, dude just came off of _microfracture knee surgery_, why would they push it and make him start 30+ minutes in his rookie season?

I really don't believe you're trying so hard to tare down Oden, he really isn't having a bad rookie season, especially coming off a serious injury. 9/7 and 1.15 blocks in 21.6 minutes while shooting about 56% is good numbers from a rookie center. If this was anybody else you wouldn't have anything bad to say. Did Oden knock your favorite team out of the big dance or something?


----------



## BengalDuck

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Just going to add more threads about projections (as I'm searching for an old thread).

http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/374334-oden-expectations-merged.html

Fairly reasonable and close to what he's putting up... and bear in mind these predictions were before he missed last season with the micro-fracture recovery.

http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/360154-predict-oden-durant-year-1-stats.html

The more I review these old predictions, the more I believe that Portland fans are actually some of the most intelligent on these here boards.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Once in a decade center? Now that is laughable.

Greg Oden isn't even one of the two best rookie centers this year!

And are we forgetting about Dwight Howard? Oden doesn't have the potential to be better than him, so he can't be a once in a decade center.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> People would always point to the National Title game as an example of Oden dominating. That may have been one of the most terribly one-sided officiating games i've seen. UF was pretty easily controlling the game, so they would basically give Oden/OSU the benifit of the doubt all night, while were calling UF ticky-tack just to keep the score respectable. That's all me n all my friends were saying during the game because It was so blatantly obvious. Oden would hack the **** out of Horford on one end, and the Noah would breathe on him on the other and get a quick whistle... The refs were calling two different games out there.


I said he _lead_ them to the National Title game. The title game he did have 25 points, 12 rebounds and 4 blocks, but couldn't get any help from his teammates. I remember him single-andedly saving his team from elimination against Tennessee in the Sweet 16 by blocking a game winning shot. Against Hibbert he was hampered by foul trouble but still ended up changing the game 13 point and 9 boards in 20 minutes.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Once in a decade center? Now that is laughable.
> 
> Greg Oden isn't even one of the two best rookie centers this year!
> 
> And are we forgetting about Dwight Howard? Oden doesn't have the potential to be better than him, so he can't be a once in a decade center.


Oden is longer than Howard, just as strong and both had garbage post moves in their rookie years. I don't see how they aren't comparable.


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^ True, except Dwight Howard has played an 82 game season. In fact, every single season of his career, he's going on #5 this year. Oden has never, ever, in his life been healthy for half a season, let alone a season or two. So yes, he may be statistically comparable to rookie Howard, but extrapolating like that doesn't factor in discipline (outside of fouling) over longer minutes, fatigue and focus during those minutes, etc. It's not linear, obviously if he played 48 mpg his stats would be even better but there is always a dropoff at some point. Once he _actually_ proves he can play 35+ mpg at a consistently high level, then we can talk about Howard comparisons.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



zagsfan20 said:


> Oden is longer than Howard, just as strong and both had garbage post moves in their rookie years. I don't see how they aren't comparable.


No, Dwight is longer than Oden in terms of wing span. Oden has the higher head height.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



BengalDuck said:


> Just going to add more threads about projections (as I'm searching for an old thread).
> 
> http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/374334-oden-expectations-merged.html
> 
> Fairly reasonable and close to what he's putting up... and bear in mind these predictions were before he missed last season with the micro-fracture recovery.
> 
> http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/360154-predict-oden-durant-year-1-stats.html
> 
> The more I review these old predictions, the more I believe that Portland fans are actually some of the most intelligent on these here boards.


Check the threads from this summer.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Cap said:


> Oden has never, ever, in his life been healthy for half a season, let alone a season or two.


except for, of course, this season(and college and high school if you want to include his whole life. there has really only been one season in his life in which he actually missed more than half the year and that was last season).


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> except for, of course, this season(and college and high school if you want to include his whole life. there has really only been one season in his life in which he actually missed more than half the year and that was last season).


He sprained his foot in his first NBA game, which lasted a couple weeks, and chipped his left kneecap, which also lasted a few weeks. He has been healthy a couple months this season at most, maybe 3. That's barely half a season, 60% maybe. The games he's playing he's not playing near 100%, it's obvious and it's part of the reason he doesn't get burn ahead of Joel. He'll block a shot nicely one minute and the next he can't get enough lift without getting rejected by the rim, like today. 

We've already had this discussion too and you didn't do well. Some of his previous injury history in college is well documented: 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ies/index.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ge=OdenSurgery

In college he had back, knee and hip misalignment issues, all inter-related. To say he just had one, isolated and random wrist injury in college would be generous. 

EDIT: And to be clear, playing in games doesn't mean you're _healthy_ *especially* if it's affecting your play (fouls, lift, etc.). If he were playing with injuries during games but it wasn't affecting him, and if he could actually just play more games period, this all wouldn't be that big of a deal.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Cap said:


> He sprained his foot in his first NBA game, which lasted a couple weeks, and chipped his left kneecap, which also lasted a few weeks. He has been healthy a couple months this season at most, maybe 3. That's barely half a season, 60% maybe. The games he's playing he's not playing near 100%, it's obvious and it's part of the reason he doesn't get burn ahead of Joel. He'll block a shot nicely one minute and the next he can't get enough lift without getting rejected by the rim, like today.


you said he's never been healthy for half a season in his life. you are wrong. simple as that.

and your point about the missed dunk tonight is nothing. it wasn't that he couldn't get lift, he simply misjudged it(while getting hit from behind, though i think a no call there was correct). he had plenty of lift to dunk the ball he just put it on the front rim.


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> you said he's never been healthy for half a season in his life. you are wrong. simple as that.


Nope. He's playing with injury and generally not doing all that well because he can't stay on the floor or get lift. If that's healthy to you then, well, that's just more funny than anything else.



> and your point about the missed dunk tonight is nothing. it wasn't that he couldn't get lift, he simply misjudged it(while getting hit from behind, though i think a no call there was correct). he had plenty of lift to dunk the ball he just put it on the front rim.


He got rejected by the freaking rim. Short of being bear hugged there is absolutely zero reason for a 7-footer with his athleticism to not be able to dunk that. He didn't just miss the dunk, which is forgivable; the rim swatted his shot. He doesn't have the same lift or mobility, because he's always injured. Get over it.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Cap said:


> Nope. He's playing with injury and generally not doing all that well because he can't stay on the floor or get lift. If that's healthy to you then, well, that's just more funny than anything else.


foul trouble has been keeping him off the floor.



> He got rejected by the freaking rim. Short of being bear hugged there is absolutely zero reason for a 7-footer with his athleticism to not be able to dunk that. He didn't just miss the dunk, which is forgivable; the rim swatted his shot. He doesn't have the same lift or mobility, because he's always injured. Get over it.


it's not like the rim blocked him on the way up because he couldn't get lift. he slammed the ball down on the front of the rim. he was high enough to dunk it, but missed.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Any way you put it, that missed dunk was a revolting display of underachievement. You can't find excuses for a 7-footer missing that. The sequence starts with Oden making a big block, then missing that big dunk after being spoon fed. Next possession, he gets called for fouling Drew Gooden. While he's jogging up and down the court, he's looking winded and/or lethargic. Possession or two later, he picks up a lose ball foul battling for rebounding position, and that's when they say that's his 4th. He gets pulled. 

Drew Gooden went up against Pryzbilla, and twice he ended up missing a tough fadeaway. Gooden went at Oden's chest, and twice he drew fouls - one and1. I'm amazed that Pryzbilla is actually more effective than Oden.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Chan said:


> Any way you put it, that missed dunk was a revolting display of underachievement. You can't find excuses for a 7-footer missing that. The sequence starts with Oden making a big block, then missing that big dunk after being spoon fed. Next possession, he gets called for fouling Drew Gooden. While he's jogging up and down the court, he's looking winded and/or lethargic. Possession or two later, he picks up a lose ball foul battling for rebounding position, and that's when they say that's his 4th. He gets pulled.
> 
> Drew Gooden went up against Pryzbilla, and twice he ended up missing a tough fadeaway. Gooden went at Oden's chest, and twice he drew fouls - one and1. I'm amazed that Pryzbilla is actually more effective than Oden.


haha. oh chan...


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> foul trouble has been keeping him off the floor.


Come on, you _know_ physical mobility is correlated with foul trouble at the very least, yes? So why act like it's normal for an uber-athletic 7-footer playing against backup C's to average 4 fouls in 22 mpg? That's a guy whose still injured (in some form or fashion), or if we give him the benefit of the doubt _maybe_ it's a guy whose confidence in his quicks is just shot, and just won't be back until 09-10. 

It's like Tmac; sure, he played 38 games this season, but was he really healthy for those games? Not the majority of them, no (back, knee, whatever). 



> it's not like the rim blocked him on the way up because he couldn't get lift. he slammed the ball down on the front of the rim. he was high enough to dunk it, but missed.


He was right under the basket and the rim blocked him. Knowing for a fact Oden has genetically elite hops, to me that sequence said no lift. And it wasn't the only sequence he hasn't looked good in this season, if it were I wouldn't even be saying anything. But one game or one minute he looks physically great, and the next he's laboring, sluggish, clumsy, awkward, whatever. I'm not a doctor, but that says injury to me. Or poor conditioning coming off injury which is still bad because it means he can't have impact on games consistently.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> haha. oh chan...


That's probably why he doesn't start over Pryzbilla, I'm assume. Joel Pryzbilla is better than Greg Oden?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Chan said:


> That's probably why he doesn't start over Pryzbilla, I'm assume. Joel Pryzbilla is better than Greg Oden?


joel is starting over oden because they were bringing oden back slowly from his injury. it's worked out well for the team and oden doesn't really have to worry about foul trouble as much coming off the bench, so they've stuck with it. they may keep it this way the rest of the year and into the playoffs or they may switch back. joel is a better rebounder(he's best in the league and now blue magic will make a comment about me saying that) and refs allow him to get away with more contact on the defensive end, but those are the only things he does better than oden.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> joel is starting over oden because they were bringing oden back slowly from his injury. it's worked out well for the team and oden doesn't really have to worry about foul trouble as much coming off the bench, so they've stuck with it. they may keep it this way the rest of the year and into the playoffs or they may switch back. joel is a better rebounder(*he's best in the league *and now blue magic will make a comment about me saying that) and refs allow him to get away with more contact on the defensive end, but those are the only things he does better than oden.


You cannot be serious. :laugh: :rofl2:

Nobody is even on your side on this issue... Something is not right with Oden right now, just admit, and let's move forward and hope for the best. You need to just :whiteflag:.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> You cannot be serious. :laugh: :rofl2:
> 
> Nobody is even on your side on this issue... Something is not right with Oden right now, just admit, and let's move forward and hope for the best. You need to just :whiteflag:.


nice job addressing anything i actually said.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Joel Pryzbilla is not, I repeat, IS NOT the best rebounder in the league. That is honestly one of the more laughable claims i've seen you try to make. :laugh: You and your PER's. That's all you have, because you favorite players cant produce. You have to fall back and resort to pace adjusted 'hypotheticals' just for any of your arguments to be remotely accurate. Just :whiteflag: already.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Joel Pryzbilla is not, I repeat, IS NOT the best rebounder in the league. That is honestly one of the more laughable claims i've seen you try to make. :laugh: *You and your PER's. That's all you have, because you favorite players cant produce.* You have to fall back and resort to pace adjusted 'hypotheticals' just for any of your arguments to be remotely accurate. Just :whiteflag: already.


per measures what players produce.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

No, PER is a pace adjusted 'hypothetical'(hypothetical being the operative word). Joey P is not producing more rebounds than Dwight Howard. It's all hypothetical production, not actual production. Try again, or do you wanna give up yet?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> No, PER is a pace adjusted 'hypothetical'(hypothetical being the operative word). Joey P is not producing more rebounds than Dwight Howard. It's all hypothetical production, not actual production. You wanna give up yet?


you clearly don't have any idea what you are even discussing.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> you clearly don't have any idea what you are even discussing.


:bs:


----------



## myst

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I remember when people were saying Oden was the 3rd best Center in the league before he even played a game, shows the intelligence of some of the members of this forum.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



myst said:


> I remember when people were saying Oden was the 3rd best Center in the league before he even played a game, shows the intelligence of some of the members of this forum.


i don't really recall that happening. i personally said that i felt like oden would be the 3rd best center in the league by the end of this season. that obviously hasn't happened at this point.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> :bs:


per says that dwight is a much more productive player than joel because dwight is a much more productive player than joel. the stat you would be looking for that says that joel is a better rebounder would be rebound rate. that's the one that says that joel grabs a higher percentage of available rebounds than dwight.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^It dont matter, same difference. When someone is grabbing almost 6 more rpg than you, you are NOT the leagues best rebounder. Does rebound rate adjust for things like fatigue & what unit you play with/against for the majority of your minutes? No it doesn't. /discussion


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> You cannot be serious. :laugh: :rofl2:
> 
> Nobody is even on your side on this issue... Something is not right with Oden right now, just admit, and let's move forward and hope for the best. You need to just :whiteflag:.


The only thing not right is his inability to stay in games because of foul trouble and the stupid fouls he commits. Both are common traits of rookie bigs, something a 21 year old rookie isn't immune to.


----------



## MrJayremmie

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden is doing fine for his rookie year at 9 and 7 in 21mpg, imo. And this is the worst he will ever be in his career... averaging a double double next year is a good possibility. I think he is coming along nicely, but I agree that the people who said he would be a great center right off the bat were wrong. Pretty much, on the PDX board, there weren't too many people who said he'd be getting anything under 12 and 8. Gotta give him time because he is no where near recovered athletically and nowhere near the shape/weight he will be in next year. Having a summer to work on his game rather than rehab will be a great thing for him.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Granted they lost, Oden played pretty well last night. 15 points on 6-7 shooting with 5 boards and a block in 21:36.


----------



## jokeaward

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I prefer Mr. Love glass cleaner.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



jokeaward said:


> I prefer Mr. Love asscleaner.


mg:

The world loss an endless vein of humor when Memphis traded Kevin Love


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GregOden said:


> Granted they lost, Oden played pretty well last night. 15 points on 6-7 shooting with 5 boards and a block in 21:36.


It looks good on the stat sheet, until you realize that Greg Oden's production came in very extended garbage time. Houston was ahead by 18 and cruised to a 27-point victory. Oden was not a factor.


----------



## Pimped Out

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> It looks good on the stat sheet, until you realize that Greg Oden's production came in very extended garbage time. Houston was ahead by 18 and cruised to a 27-point victory. Oden was not a factor.


in the first half, oden easily looked like Portland's second best player. He played well and looked good while the game was still within reach for the Blazers


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Almost all of his points, maybe all of them, were in the grill of Mutombo. Mutombo doesn't take plays off, first half or second half. The whole game was garbage time if you want to be literal. The Rockets were up by double digits right from the start and only a couple times did the Blazers cut it to 9 or so.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pimped Out said:


> in the first half, oden easily looked like Portland's second best player. He played well and looked good while the game was still within reach for the Blazers


The game was pretty much out of reach by the middle of the first half, and Greg Oden's numbers largely came against a 42-year-old center (who could be older than that) in the second half with his team down big. I'm just saying call it like it is -- numbers posted in a game that was decided well in advance, largely against a man literally old enough to be Oden's father.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> ^It dont matter, same difference. When someone is grabbing almost 6 more rpg than you, you are NOT the leagues best rebounder. Does rebound rate adjust for things like fatigue & what unit you play with/against for the majority of your minutes? No it doesn't. /discussion


Not to mention that rebounding is arguably Joel Przybilla's primary focus. If Przybilla was less effective at the one skill that likely is keeping him in the NBA then he would be buried on the bench. Przybilla has that in common with Reggie Evans in that regard -- they are such limited players (particularly offensively), so in order to compensate for it they have to play at a higher level at what they can do in order to get on the court.

That's different from someone like Dwight Howard, who has to focus on scoring, rebounding, defending. Because Howard can perform all these tasks at high levels, even if he slipped a bit as a rebounder he still will be a very effective player.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The game was pretty much out of reach by the middle of the first half, and Greg Oden's numbers largely came against a 42-year-old center (who could be older than that) in the second half with his team down big. I'm just saying call it like it is -- numbers posted in a game that was decided well in advance, largely against a man literally old enough to be Oden's father.


That's not calling it like it is, that's wording it in a very specific manner to suit your own argument. It's not just some 42 year old centre, that's Dikembe Mutombo, and regardless of how old he is, he's a great defensive player who doesn't quit. By saying it's just some 42 year old centre you spin it to make it seem like he's garbage when that's not the case.


----------



## Bon]{eRz

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



> *Joel #1 rebounder in the NBA*
> 
> Click on the title for the link, but to save you the time, Joel is now the #1 rebounder in the NBA, yes even better than D-Howard.


http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/3/23/807934/joel-1-rebounder-in-the-nb


Its not an opinion to be debated, its a fact that over the 08/09 season Pryzbilla was a more efficient rebounder than Howard. 

Somewhat surprising when considering the weak rebounders on Magic's forward line, with Rashard and Hedo playing beside Howard you may have expected an even higher percentage of available rebounds to fall into his lap. While Pryzbilla has had to compete with Aldridge and Oden (when on the court at the same times), as well as one of the better rebounding guards in the league in Roy.


----------



## Pimped Out

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The game was pretty much out of reach by the middle of the first half, and Greg Oden's numbers largely came against a 42-year-old center (who could be older than that) in the second half with his team down big. I'm just saying call it like it is -- numbers posted in a game that was decided well in advance, largely against a man literally old enough to be Oden's father.


Did you even watch the game? It is easy in retrospect to say you should throw out the numbers because it was a blow out. But if you watched the game, you have to be aware that Oden played well, regardless of the stats, before the game was decided and before garbage time.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Bon]{eRz said:


> http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/3/23/807934/joel-1-rebounder-in-the-nb
> 
> 
> Its not an opinion to be debated, its a fact that over the 08/09 season Pryzbilla was a more efficient rebounder than Howard.
> 
> Somewhat surprising when considering the weak rebounders on Magic's forward line, with Rashard and Hedo playing beside Howard you may have expected an even higher percentage of available rebounds to fall into his lap. While Pryzbilla has had to compete with Aldridge and Oden (when on the court at the same times), as well as one of the better rebounding guards in the league in Roy.


not exactly a fair assessment. orlando was a better defensive rebounding team than portland. portland a much better offensive rebounding team. defensively, their responsibilities are pretty similar. offensively, pryzbilla can focus alot more on rebounding than dwight.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> not exactly a fair assessment. orlando was a better defensive rebounding team than portland. portland a much better offensive rebounding team. defensively, their responsibilities are pretty similar. offensively, pryzbilla can focus alot more on rebounding than dwight.


joel gets a higher percentage of defensive rebounds than dwight, while dwight gets a higher percentage of offensive rebounds than joel. joel leads the league in defensive rebound rate(greg oden leads the league in offensive rebound rate).


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> joel gets a higher percentage of defensive rebounds than dwight, while dwight gets a higher percentage of offensive rebounds than joel. joel leads the league in defensive rebound rate(greg oden leads the league in offensive rebound rate).


point was, it's not fair to imply dwight should be rebounding more because there's more available rebounds because he's on a weaker rebounding team. fact is, they're a better overall defensive rebounding team with fewer available rebounds.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> point was, it's not fair to imply dwight should be rebounding more because there's more available rebounds because he's on a weaker rebounding team. fact is, they're a better overall defensive rebounding team with fewer available rebounds.


dwight is on a weaker rebounding team. portland is the best rebounding team in the league. and orlando is slightly better at defensive rebounding, but it's not really a significant amount.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> dwight is on a weaker rebounding team. portland is the best rebounding team in the league. and orlando is slightly better at defensive rebounding, but it's not really a significant amount.


offensive rebounding and defensive rebounding are 2 distinct skills. defensive rebounding is doing your job. offensive rebounding is creating opportunities. that's how i look at it at least. orlando does their "job" slightly better (and dwight has slightly less opportunities than joel). portland better at creating opportunities.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pimped Out said:


> Did you even watch the game? It is easy in retrospect to say you should throw out the numbers because it was a blow out. But if you watched the game, you have to be aware that Oden played well, regardless of the stats, before the game was decided and before garbage time.


I like these drive-by, blanket statements that have no relevance.

Not one place did I praise or criticize the quality of Greg Oden's game Saturday (and yes, I did watch the game). What I did offer is context, which seems to be missing for those going so out of the way to give Oden any benefit of the doubt (even to the point of being ridiculous).

You can't fairly evaluate what Oden did given the circumstances of the game. Oden scored 10 of his 15 points and grabbed three of his five rebounds in the second half. Oden scored all his points when his team was down a minimum of 25 points and practically everything against a reserve center literally old enough to be his father.

Just like with any player, I'm going to be indifferent when a player puts up such numbers when the game is so out of hand. I can care less if the player has a group of apologists who try to rationalize every step or misstep that player makes.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> That's not calling it like it is, that's wording it in a very specific manner to suit your own argument. It's not just some 42 year old centre, that's Dikembe Mutombo, and regardless of how old he is, he's a great defensive player who doesn't quit. By saying it's just some 42 year old centre you spin it to make it seem like he's garbage when that's not the case.


I didn't say anything about Dikembe Mutombo being garbage -- that's simply you trying to read something into it that isn't there, in an effort to apologize for Greg Oden. The reality is Mutombo is a reserve center very much past his prime and nearly twice as old as Oden. You would think a ballyhooed center such as Oden should have no problems with an older Mutombo.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

You're pretty hung up on Mutombo's age Najee. There is a reason dude is 78 and still playing professional basketball for a playoff team, it's because he is still enough of a defensive presence to make an impact. 

Do you consider Oden better than Mutombo?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> offensive rebounding and defensive rebounding are 2 distinct skills. defensive rebounding is doing your job. offensive rebounding is creating opportunities. that's how i look at it at least. orlando does their "job" slightly better (and dwight has slightly less opportunities than joel). portland better at creating opportunities.


why does dwight have less opportunities than joel?


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I didn't say anything about Dikembe Mutombo being garbage -- that's simply you trying to read something into it that isn't there, in an effort to apologize for Greg Oden. The reality is Mutombo is a reserve center very much past his prime and nearly twice as old as Oden. You would think a ballyhooed center such as Oden should have no problems with an older Mutombo.


He said Oden had a nice game, and you did everything in your power to put a negative spin on it. I don't know what it is with you and Oden. You like to pretend you're the only one being rational, but dude said Oden had a nice game. You then dismissed the game because A) the game was "out of hand" which wasn't the case for the majority of his production and B) because Mutombo is old which is irrelevant because he is still a great defender and shotblocker. 

Either way, Oden had a nice game. He had no problem scoring on Mutombo just about everytime he got the ball down low. Mutombo may be old, but he is also one of the best defensive centers ever, so even an old Dikembe is way above average defensively.

Why don't you just swallor your pride and admit he had a nice game? Pretty much everyone came away with that impression. It's one game. It doesn't mean he is going to be the great player you desperately don't want him to become. It's just a good game.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> why does dwight have less opportunities than joel?


just meant that his teammates rebound a higher % of avail rebounds (defensively).


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> He said Oden had a nice game, and you did everything in your power to put a negative spin on it. I don't know what it is with you and Oden. You like to pretend you're the only one being rational, but dude said Oden had a nice game. You then dismissed the game because A) the game was "out of hand" which wasn't the case for the majority of his production and B) because Mutombo is old which is irrelevant because he is still a great defender and shotblocker.


The majority of Greg Oden's production came in the second half Saturday. Look at the play-by-play on the NBA's Web site for verification -- all of Oden's second-half production came when the Blazers were down 25 or more points. Any player would receive such an evaluation from me under those circumstances -- an incomplete grade.

You basically want to say, "Wow, great stat line, Greg. Too bad it came when your team was down 25-plus points."

It sounds like more of the same old thing, where the Oden backers' love for Oden calls for them to look for every little item in order to try to validate him, that's when they are not trying to rationalize his shortcomings.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Why don't you just swallor your pride and admit he had a nice game? Pretty much everyone came away with that impression. It's one game. It doesn't mean he is going to be the great player you desperately don't want him to become. It's just a good game.


You keep saying that to yourself and one day someone may actually believe you.

Actually, my issue is with all the blindly loyal Oden backers who refuse to take their medicine even after their proclamations have fallen flat on their faces. I have no problem giving a player credit when it's due. If Oden is producing like that vs. Yao Ming in a close game where his production affects the outcome, sure he will get credit from me. 

But any player who does what he did in practically one half of garbage time gets an incomplete grade, given the circumstances. I'm certainly not going to gloss over the fact that the bulk of Oden's numbers came when the game was out of hand vs. a backup center old enough to be his father.

Again, if you want to try to spin to say I was critical of Oden's game Saturday, find the exact words where I praised or critiqued Oden's game. That's all you have to do -- and don't try to sidestep the fact that Oden's production largely came in a game that was a blowout.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The majority of Greg Oden's production came in the second half Saturday. Look at the NBA's box scores for verification -- all of Oden's second-half production came when the Blazers were down 25 or more points. Any player would receive such an evaluation from me under those circumstances -- an incomplete grade.
> 
> You basically want to say, "Wow, great stat line, Greg. Too bad it came when your team was down 25-plus points."
> 
> It sounds like more of the same old thing, where the Oden backers' love for Oden calls for them to look for every little item in order to try to validate him, that's when they are not trying to rationalize his shortcomings.


I'm not an Oden backer, and I've told you that. I argue against you because your trying to spin something negative on him with every ounce of effort and you're simply being negative to be negative because you have a personal issue with the player. Your bias against him makes up the basis of your argument and that's what I have a problem with; you just want to put him down. And it's not just this either, you've always seemed to do this. You even bump threads and bring up his name when he has a negative game.

I would do this to anyone. Ask fans of other players, like Wade fans, or Dwight fans; there's plenty of times where I'm just trying to argue what I see as rational, regardless of who the player is.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> dwight is on a weaker rebounding team. portland is the best rebounding team in the league. and orlando is slightly better at defensive rebounding, but it's not really a significant amount.


You can play 1 minute, grab 1 rebound, and average 48 rebs PER48 and have a rebound rate of 100. That doesnt make you a better rebounder than the guy who plays 35 mins and grabs 15 rebounds.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> I'm not an Oden backer, and I've told you that. I argue against you because your trying to spin something negative on him with every ounce of effort and you're simply being negative to be negative because you have a personal issue with the player.


All you have to do is disprove what I said -- Greg Oden's second-half production came when Portland was down by 25 points. That's a FACT.

What you're saying is your OPINION.

BTW, here is where my FACT is backed up:

http://www.nba.com/games/20090418/HOUPOR/playbyplay.html

Now, which one do you think will stand up in a court of law (HINT: it's not the OPINION)? Also, there is no whining in the courtroom.

But hey, some of you all want to compare Oden to the best big men in the history of the NBA (who, unlike Oden, never struggled like he did coming out of the gate).


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It's gotten to the point where even objective unbias fans who don't give a rats butt about Oden are trying to explain to you the error of your ways. Even HB said Greg Oden had a good game and left it at that. He was your argument partner in the rookie thread. This world where everyone is a Greg Oden apologist and you are the lone one thinking clearly just doesn't exist outside of your mind. Adjust accordingly.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> You can play 1 minute, grab 1 rebound, and average 48 rebs PER48 and have a rebound rate of 100. That doesnt make you a better rebounder than the guy who plays 35 mins and grabs 15 rebounds.


The rebrate of 100 would only happen if there was a single shot in your one minute of play. Which, if you'll pardon my observing, seems nigh on impossible unless there's some Boots Randolph music involved (because we're talking about three shot clock possessions). No, your PER wouldn'[t be 48 (though your /48 rebounds would be 48). None of that is relevant to your absurd claims vis a vis Godzylla.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



ehmunro said:


> The rebrate of 100 would only happen if there was a single shot in your one minute of play.


Well, if there was a single *missed* shot and he grabbed it, it would work. I understand that. That's what I meant to say, my bad.



> Which, if you'll pardon my observing, seems nigh on impossible unless there's some Boots Randolph music involved (because we're talking about three shot clock possessions). No, your PER wouldn'[t be 48 (though your /48 rebounds would be 48). None of that is relevant to your absurd claims vis a vis Godzylla.


That's exactly what I said tho. He would average 48 rebounds a game according to the great 'PER48' measuring index. If he played 1 possession at the end of the game, and happened to grab the lone rebound for instance... His rebound rate would be 100. Obviously that's an extreme case, but still proves the same point. The more minutes you play, the harder it is to sustain those #'s. Dwight plays significantly more minutes than a Joel Przybilla.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> All you have to do is disprove what I said -- Greg Oden's second-half production came when Portland was down by 25 points. That's a FACT.
> 
> What you're saying is your OPINION.
> 
> BTW, here is where my FACT is backed up:
> 
> http://www.nba.com/games/20090418/HOUPOR/playbyplay.html
> 
> Now, which one do you think will stand up in a court of law (HINT: it's not the OPINION)? Also, there is no whining in the courtroom.




I wasn't talking about this instance, I was talking about your whole stance towards Oden. This doesn't change that.



> But hey, some of you all want to compare Oden to the best big men in the history of the NBA (who, unlike Oden, never struggled like he did coming out of the gate).


When did I say that?


----------



## Bon]{eRz

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> You can play 1 minute, grab 1 rebound, and average 48 rebs PER48 and have a rebound rate of 100. That doesnt make you a better rebounder than the guy who plays 35 mins and grabs 15 rebounds.


Any stat is only useful if its from a statistically significant sample size. Hollinger believes that 500 or more minutes of playing time is sufficient to give a good indication of how a player has performed (Pryzbilla has played 1,886 mins vs 2,820 for Howard).

But you can use raw rebounds/game stats, and also believe that Hedo Turkoglu is a better rebounder than Reggie Evans just because he averages more rebounds a game, if you like.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^Obviously not. Reggie Evans gets almost just as many rebounds a game as Hedo in a **** load less time. But when rebound rates are soo close tho? Please, dont be ridiculous! If one guy is playing X many more minutes then next.... and the rebound rates are fractions apart... You telling me you'll take the guy doing it for significantly less time just because he has slightly higher rebound rate? Go right ahead.


----------



## BengalDuck

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Do you all really like continuing the same rebound rate argument every two weeks?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> It's gotten to the point where even objective unbias fans who don't give a rats butt about Oden are trying to explain to you the error of your ways. Even HB said Greg Oden had a good game and left it at that.


Um, I'm looking to see where HB, Chan or any of my "allies" said anything about Oden's game Saturday. It surely is not in this thread, so either it is somewhere else (not relevant to THIS thread) or you're continuing to make up your own reality. Right now, it looks like you're lying.

Ras is simply like you -- a tired apologist who is looking for any rationalization to salvage Oden's season. Maybe you two and rockeeter can become unofficial Oden cheerleaders on the sidelines.

Come up with some actual debate of FACTS and then we can talk.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



BengalDuck said:


> Wrong.
> 
> IIn Oden's case, he hasn't shown the ability to consistently stay out of foul trouble and to stay healthy to warrant significant minutes.


Fouls and health are part of a player's evaluation. You can't make them exclusive of a player's performance. If you can't stay healthy enough to play and you're foul prone, it's going to downgrade your performance -- meaning you're not good enough to warrant more playing time.



zagsfan20 said:


> If Najee knows basketball as much as he claims and has been watching basketball for years, I think it would go without saying that it takes players, especially big men in their rookie year time to develop.


If you look at the history of the NBA, the elite big men typically did not come into the league struggling. Particularly the ones who were high draft picks, practically given the starting position and roughly Greg Oden's age. Oden's rookie season would rate significantly worse than the typical top-level centers' as a rookie.

The elite big men in history were very productive to dominant almost immediately. For Oden to graduate to their class (which some have projected on this board) it would go against the grain of NBA history and would mean an incredible amount of improvement.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

oden looked pretty good out there. for 1 game. in not big minutes. there's no reason to make more or less out of it. 

in fairness to oden, most of the elite big men in history came into the league with alot more experience, and in alot better shape. but this year was not an impressive start.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

The problem with the "in shape/microfracture" argument is that it was nearly two years ago when Greg Oden had the surgery. At some point, that old shoe has to be put aside.

I agree in part with Oden's relative inexperience compared to other elite big men in NBA history, but that is partly because of his injuries and his excessive fouling. My problem is that some people continue to overlook that and his other warts but yet only want to compare him to elite players whose production was far better than his at comparable ages/stages.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Um, I'm looking to see where HB, Chan or any of my "allies" said anything about Oden's game Saturday. It surely is not in this thread, so either it is somewhere else (not relevant to THIS thread) or you're continuing to make up your own reality. Right now, it looks like you're lying.






HB said:


> The Good- Oden had himself a nice game


I'd say that's relevant.



> Ras is simply like you -- a tired apologist who is looking for any rationalization to salvage Oden's season. Maybe you two and rockeeter can become unofficial Oden cheerleaders on the sidelines.
> 
> Come up with some actual debate of FACTS and then we can talk.


You don't even listen to what I say at all. How can you expect me to debate with you if you ignore everything I say?

I don't care about Oden at all. I can count the times I've seen him play on one hand. Besides, my stake in this isn't about "Facts" at all as you put it. I don't care how he's playing, I care that you're doing everything in your power to throw negatives at him and you have all season. You perpetuate the entire Oden ordeal more then anyone else here and it's never been for anything but negativity.


----------



## bootstrenf

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> It's gotten to the point where even objective unbias fans who don't give a rats butt about Oden are trying to explain to you the error of your ways. Even HB said Greg Oden had a good game and left it at that. He was your argument partner in the rookie thread. This world where everyone is a Greg Oden apologist and you are the lone one thinking clearly just doesn't exist outside of your mind. Adjust accordingly.



i am unbiased in the fact that i have nothing invested in oden's failure or success.....

and everything najee has posted has been facts......not sure why some people are taking it so personal......if the content of najee's posts in this thread are bothersome, then just don't read this thread......simple enough, no?


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



bootstrenf said:


> i am unbiased in the fact that i have nothing invested in oden's failure or success.....
> 
> and everything najee has posted has been facts......not sure why some people are taking it so personal......if the content of najee's posts in this thread are bothersome, then just don't read this thread......simple enough, no?


It has nothing to do with that. It's the fact that he jumps on every possible negative he can while also being the one to push the entire issue when others had let it die. He'd be caught dead saying something positive about Greg.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> It has nothing to do with that. It's the fact that he jumps on every possible negative he can while also being the one to push the entire issue when others had let it die. He'd be caught dead saying something positive about Greg.


Dude, get off your cross and stop whining. 

If you don't have a bone in Greg Oden's fight, then why are you whining, "Najee, don't post this. Najee, don't post that."

It's real simple -- move on if it doesn't personally affect you. But it seems pretty apparent that it does bother you someone is putting up this thread about one particular player.

P.S. If talking about Oden for the entire season means making one thread and discussing his play after the All-Star break, you got a different definition for "all season" than I do.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

najee - what's your opinion of how oden looked in game 1?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> najee - what's your opinion of how oden looked in game 1?


Personally, I thought Greg Oden looked fluid at certain spots of the game. He made the hook shot in the lane in the fourth quarter, which shows he is developing some sort of offensive repetoire. Defensively, he looked OK but again in a blowout contest you're not going to see players go after it more competitively.

I have to give him an incomplete simply because of the circumstances of the game when he played (mainly, a blowout loss and Oden going up against a 42-year-old backup center). That score is more of a reflection of the game than Oden, per se. Like I said, I will give him good marks if he plays like that in a close game against Yao Ming.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Ras is simply like you -- a tired apologist who is looking for any rationalization to salvage Oden's season. Maybe you two and rockeeter can become unofficial Oden cheerleaders on the sidelines.


Salvage Oden's season? As a rookie coming off of a major injury he put up pretty good numbers, and played substantial minutes for a playoff team. You're acting like Oden failed miserably. 

Do you consider Tyson Chandler to be a good center in this league?

Chandler averaged 8.8 points (56.5 FG%), 8.7 boards, and 1.24 blocks in 32.1 minutes per game. 

Oden averaged 8.9 points (56.4 FG%), 7 boards, and 1.13 blocks in 21.5 minutes per game.

That's over a ten minute differential between the two, and the numbers are very similar. The only real difference in their stat lines is Oden's fouls per game. But does it really shock you that a rookie big man who's main objective is to help out defensively, is having some foul issues?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If Tyson Chandler is your barometer for a good center, you already have problems with your statement.

The problem with Oden zealots is that you move the bar whenever it is convenient for the argument. When it's favorable, the elite centers are named. When it comes to rationalizing his poor performances, the excuses come with the bar being lowered. It's an absolute joke.


----------



## bootstrenf

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GregOden said:


> Salvage Oden's season? As a rookie coming off of a major injury he put up pretty good numbers, and played substantial minutes for a playoff team. You're acting like Oden failed miserably.
> 
> Do you consider Tyson Chandler to be a good center in this league?
> 
> Chandler averaged 8.8 points (56.5 FG%), 8.7 boards, and 1.24 blocks in 32.1 minutes per game.
> 
> Oden averaged 8.9 points (56.4 FG%), 7 boards, and 1.13 blocks in 21.5 minutes per game.
> 
> That's over a ten minute differential between the two, and the numbers are very similar. The only real difference in their stat lines is Oden's fouls per game. But does it really shock you that a rookie big man who's main objective is to help out defensively, is having some foul issues?



there is a huge difference between chandler and oden......


everyone knows what chandler is now.....a decent rebounder and weakside shot blocker who runs the floor very well......the numbers you posted is basically what everyone expected out of chandler anyways......8.8ppg/8.7rpg/1.24bpg was not dissappointment......no one really expected much more from him......


oden however, was supposed to be a game changing impact player from the start......he had very impressive measurables, and was an instinctive defender in the paint......he was supposed to carry the blazers on his back and lead them to glory......he was being compared to all time greats before he had even stepped foot on an NBA court......i recall blazers fans stating that if given the choice, they would take oden over dwight, because he had better size, was almost as athletic, was a better defender, and was more "polished" offensively.......i thought it was ridiculous to even consider taking oden over howard, but the blazers fans had already talked themselves into it.......

and now we can see that oden is having great difficulties living up to the expectations.......at least for now.......



so to be fair, if you want to compare numbers, don't compare numbers with chandler......

compare oden's numbers with the players that oden fans thought he would be better than.......yao, dwight, amare, etc......then tell us how "good" oden is doing.....


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Exactly. Tyson Chandler was projected to be a decent player, not someone who has been called by some people on this board and others "a once-in-a-decade" center.

The bar was set high for Greg Oden by people on this site and other people outside of this site (including some NBA evaluators) who compared his pedigree to names like Shaquille O'Neal, David Robinson, Tim Duncan and Bill Russell (with some acting almost like being compared to Russell was a consolation prize).

When Oden was being drafted, his reference point wasn't people like Chandler. Like I've always said, it's amazing how some of the Oden zealots like to move the bar when it's convenient for them. I know the bar has been lowered dramatically when you go from Bill Russell to Tyson Chandler.

Oden gets no excuses, because he was foul- and injury-prone in college when the comparisons were made. He had the same weaknesses and potential issues even after he missed the entire 2007-08 season, and the bar was still raised that high. That still didn't stop the comparisons then, so there is no lowering the bar now because your man hasn't cut the mustard.

So no, your namesake doesn't get bonus points for being statistically comparable to Chandler, GregOden. Just like the real Oden doesn't get bonus points for mop-up duty in a blowout loss against a past-his-prime backup center.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Dude, get off your cross and stop whining.




How am I whining?



> If you don't have a bone in Greg Oden's fight, then why are you whining, "Najee, don't post this. Najee, don't post that."


I never said what you should or shouldn't post. I just said you're doing everything in your power to be negative towards Oden, which I don't think you can deny.



> It's real simple -- move on if it doesn't personally affect you. But it seems pretty apparent that it does bother you someone is putting up this thread about one particular player.


It has nothing to do with the particular player. If you did this to any other player I'd be doing the exact same thing. You're just very negatively biased towards Oden because of what some Blazers fans said and you don't judge him fairly whatsoever. You perpetuate negativity.



> P.S. It talking about Oden for the entire season means making one thread and discussing his play after the All-Star break, you got a different definition for "all season" than I do.


That rookie of the year thread went on for quite a while, mainly perpetuated by your Oden comments.

Also, I never said he was a once in a decade centre. I even said he didn't live up to expectations.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The problem with Oden zealots is that you move the bar whenever it is convenient for the argument. When it's favorable, the elite centers are named. When it comes to rationalizing his poor performances, the excuses come with the bar being lowered. It's an absolute joke.


Was this directed at me?


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Oden gets no excuses, because he was foul- and injury-prone in college when the comparisons were made. He had the same weaknesses and potential issues even after he missed the entire 2007-08 season, and the bar was still raised that high. That still didn't stop the comparisons then, so there is no lowering the bar now because your man hasn't cut the mustard.




I don't see how you can say that. He hasn't lived up to expectations so the bar is changed. You're the only one saying he's supposed to be Bill Russell, no one else has mentioned since before he played a game. Are you saying you're going to judge him negatively just because people thought he was going to be great before he even played a game?



> So no, your namesake doesn't get bonus points for being statistically comparable to Chandler, GregOden. Just like the real Oden doesn't get bonus points for mop-up duty in a blowout loss against a past-his-prime backup center.


Again you say it in a way to diminish Mutombo. Yes he's past his prime, but you could also very easily say "against one of the better defensive centres in the league," and it would apply. Rewording it to hide that fact paints a poor picture of the situation.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Ras, let's get one thing straight: When I make a post, it's not about you. In fact, the majority of the time I do post it's not about you.

However, you act like every post is about you -- which is why you come across as whining like a fourth-grader with a skinned up knee. Even when comments are made to other people, you come in whining and acting like it's about you (for example, my comment to HKF). It's to the point where I make a comment to and about others and you automatically jump in, thinking it's about you.

So in my opinion you are bearing some sort of personal cross. The fact you can't help yourself when it comes to posting on a thread about a player you claim not to care about, and come back the same tired argument only reinforces that. 

Anyone who keeps coming on a thread VOLUNTARILY saying, "Please don't beat up on Greg Oden!" while ignoring that only facts have been posted about his situation does have a personal issue. Most people I know don't post on threads with which they have no interest, so apparently your interest lies elsewhere.

So, once again -- GET OFF YOUR CROSS AND STOP WHINING.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Ras, let's get one thing straight: When I make a post, it's not about you. In fact, the majority of the time I do post it's not about you.




The only time I usually reply is when you discuss "Oden zealots" and considering you've specifically called me, rocketeer and Sir Patchwork just that, I don't see who else it would be directed at. Also, just because I reply to your posts does not mean I think they're always about me, I just take stake with what you're saying.



> However, you act like every post is about you


Show me.



> -- which is why you come across as whining. Even when comments are made to other people, you come in whining and acting like it's about you (for example, my comment to HKF).


No I don't, I just take stake with what you're saying; that doesn't mean I think it's about me. I looked for the HKF post and couldn't find it though, care to point me in the direction?



> So in my opinion you are bearing some sort of personal cross. The fact you can't help yourself when it comes to posting on a thread about a player you claim not to care about, and come back the same tired argument only reinforces that.


You still don't read much of what I say or address any of my points directly, that's why I come with the same argument. I don't care about Oden, I'd do the same for any player who I feel is being put down simply for the sake of being put down.



> Anyone who keeps coming on a thread VOLUNTARILY saying, "Please don't beat up on Greg Oden!" while ignoring that only facts have been posted about his situation does have a personal issue. Most people I know don't post on threads with which they have no interest, so apparently your interest lies elsewhere.


My interest lies in you putting down a player for the sole purpose of being negative. I never said don't beat up on Greg. Hell I said he had a disappointing season myself.



> So, once again -- GET OFF YOUR CROSS AND STOP WHINING.


I still don't see how I'm whining or how I'm on a cross because I think you're being extremely biased and negative. I'm not telling you what to say, I'm just saying you're being really biased and negative.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Show me (where I act like every post is about me).


This conversation, for starters. In fact, the previous statements where you responded to me WEREN'T EVEN ADDRESSED TO YOU and you respond as if I was speaking to you.



Ras said:


> I looked for the HKF post and couldn't find it though, care to point me in the direction?


You mean the post where I said to HKF that I owned a small business and likely made far more money than he ever made with his 38,000-post making self? The one where you jumped in and started whining about you are not materialistic (even though that had nothing to do with the statement)?

Oh, YOU FORGOT THAT ONE? The one where you cried so much for several posts?

Like I said, you evidently still come here for a reason, saying the same tired statement. Not to mention I'm not the only person on here who has said the same thing about Greg Oden's development. 

So evidently you're a fourth-grader with a skinned up knee or some stalker with some obsession. You surely aren't a moderator. So yes, people who say they have no interest in something and then proceed to whine about other people posting on the subject is whining.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> This conversation, for starters. In fact, the previous statements where you responded to me WEREN'T EVEN ADDRESSED TO YOU and you respond as if I was speaking to you.


Just because I respond doesn't mean I assume you're speaking to me. Am I not allowed to respond to posts that I disagree with if they're not directed at me personally?



> You mean the post where I said to HKF that I owned a small business and likely made far more money than he ever made with his 38,000-post making self? The one where you jumped in and started whining about you are not materialistic (even though that had nothing to do with the statement)?
> 
> Oh, YOU FORGOT THAT ONE? The one where you cried so much for several posts?




Actually no I didn't forget. In fact I was going to come in and apologize because I felt I was at fault there for taking the conversation into something it was not. I was simply upset at you. So, I do apologize for that one.



> Like I said, you evidently still come here for a reason, saying the same tired statement. *Not to mention I'm not the only person on here who has said the same thing about Greg Oden's development. *So evidently you're a fourth-grader with a skinned up knee or some stalker with some obsession. You surely aren't a moderator.


I'm not a moderator and never claimed to be. In terms of the bold, we've all said it. Every single person here (I think) has said he didn't live up to the hype, myself included. I don't see why you keep bringing that up if we're all in agreement on that. That's not what I'm arguing at all.

And if by tired old statement you mean "you're extremely biased and negative towards Oden for the sake of being negative," I don't see how you can even dispute that. Do you care to? Every time I've said that you never respond to it.

By the way, do you need to use the caps? I can see what you're saying without them. You just come off like you want to yell. Honestly.....



> YOU FORGOT THAT ONE?


....was that necessary?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Again you say it in a way to diminish Mutombo. Yes he's past his prime, but you could also very easily say "against one of the better defensive centres in the league," and it would apply. Rewording it to hide that fact paints a poor picture of the situation.


In other words, [whining]"I want you to say this in a favorable way to make Greg Oden looks good."[/whining]

The reality is Dikembe Mutumbo is past his prime, as in "seven years past his prime." And I'm not going to say a 42-year-old center who only played nine games and 96 minutes this season (a FACT) is "one of the better defensive centers in the league." Calling Mutombo one of the better defensive centers in the league TODAY is stretching it.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> In other words, [whining]"I want you to say this in a favorable way to make Greg Oden looks good."[/whining]
> 
> The reality is Dikembe Mutumbo is past his prime, as in "seven years past his prime." And I'm not going to say a 42-year-old center who only played nine games and 96 minutes this season (a FACT) is "one of the better defensive centers in the league." Calling Mutombo one of the better defensive centers in the league TODAY is stretching it.


No, you said you were calling it as is, when you twisted the words to suit your argument. That's not calling it as is and that doesn't mean I'm trying to twist it to suit Oden. I'm just saying, you're not calling it as is. Also, you're trying to paint a picture of me as strictly whining to suit your argument when that's not the case.

Who would you put above Mutombo in terms of centre defense?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> And if by tired old statement you mean "you're extremely biased and negative towards Oden for the sake of being negative," I don't see how you can even dispute that. Do you care to? Every time I've said that you never respond to it.


Stating that Greg Oden's history, his injuries and his performance level vs. the expectation of Oden are FACTS. You find it biased because you are personally offended by the statements.

Showing a bias would be using using harsh adjectives or exclamations. I've never said "He's garbage!" or "He should have died when he was a baby!" or anything of that nature.

I'm not going to dictate what you THINK, because you already made that conclusion. I'm not interested in a stalking whiner's opinion in that respect, because I can't change it. But it's pretty evident you do have issues with me creating a thread about Oden, even though I and several others said why this thread was created.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Also, you're trying to paint a picture of me as strictly whining to suit your argument when that's not the case.


A couple of other people (including Prolific Scorer) have said you seem to be personally sensitive about this issue. The fact you continue to come on this thread and say the same whining "Why are you attacking Greg Oden?" statements only validate that.

You obviously are trying to accomplish something, because for someone who has no interest in Greg Oden you surely are expending a lot of energy whining about the same thing repeatedly.

I need to ask the moderators if there is an Ignore button on this site, because it's clearly evident you can't control yourself.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Stating that Greg Oden's history, his injuries and his performance level vs. the expectation of Oden are FACTS. You find it biased because you are personally offended by the statements.
> 
> Showing a bias would be using using harsh adjectives or exclamations. I've never said "He's garbage!" or "He should have died when he was a baby!" or anything of that nature.
> 
> I'm not going to dictate what you THINK, because you already made that conclusion. I'm not interested in a stalking whiner's opinion in that respect, because I can't change it. But it's pretty evident you do have issues with me creating a thread about Oden, even though I and several others said why this thread was created.


Again, you don't listen to a word I say. I don't have issue with the thread, I have issue with you doing all in your power to say negative things about a player. You didn't just state his performance level, or his injuries, you brought him up every time he had a bad game, and would go out of your way to bump that rookie thread when you felt you could make a negative quip.

Also, I'm not sure you know the definition of bias if you think you have to use harsh words in order to be bias.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> No, you said you were calling it as is, when you twisted the words to suit your argument. That's not calling it as is and that doesn't mean I'm trying to twist it to suit Oden. I'm just saying, you're not calling it as is. Also, you're trying to paint a picture of me as strictly whining to suit your argument when that's not the case.
> 
> Who would you put above Mutombo in terms of centre defense?


You're not going to be called one of the best players in the league at XYZ category if you play less than 100 minutes in a SEASON. You evidently are thinking about Dikembe Mutombo's historical reputation more than what he actually did this season.

The fact you don't even try to refute facts and whine about your opinions show you are personally vested in this argument. All you have to do is refute the fact -- if Mutombo is still one of the better defenders in the league at a premium position, why did he only play in 96 minutes this season?


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> A couple of other people (including Prolific Scorer) have said you seem to be personally sensitive about this issue. The fact you continue to come on this thread and say the same whining "Why are you attacking Greg Oden?" statements only validate that.




I never said "why are you attacking Greg Oden?" Don't put words in my mouth. That was never the basis of my argument.



> You obviously are trying to accomplish something, because for someone who has no interest in Greg Oden you surely are expending a lot of energy whining about the same thing repeatedly.


I'm not whining about Oden, I'm just saying you're being extremely negative and biased whenever you have the opportunity to do so.



> I need to ask the moderators if there is an Ignore button on this site, because it's clearly evident you can't control yourself.


There is, feel free to use it. I can control myself just fine, I just can't stand for people who are so biased that they simply have interest in putting a player down for the sake of putting him down. Yes you've stated "FACTS," but I think it's a lie if you say you have anything other then negative intentions.

Let me ask you this, why are you so infatuated with Greg Oden that you perpetuate the issue yourself? What is it about him that makes you want to be so negative about him?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> You didn't just state his performance level, or his injuries, you brought him up every time he had a bad game, and would go out of your way to bump that rookie thread when you felt you could make a negative quip.


Note to Ras: This is not the rookie thread. Not to mention the thread was more about how people like rocketeer would come up with any and every excuse to try to rationalize Greg Oden's performance vs. his peers (like Brook Lopez).

P.S. I used to be a newspaper editor, so I do know the definition of bias.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You're not going to be called one of the best players in the league at XYZ category if you play less than 100 minutes in a SEASON. You evidently are thinking about Dikembe Mutombo's historical reputation more than what he actually did this season.




So he lost his ability in one season after playing for well over a decade already?



> The fact you don't even try to refute facts and whine about your opinions show you are personally vested in this argument. All you have to do is refute the fact -- if Mutombo is still one of the better defenders in the league at a premium position, why did he only play in 96 minutes this season?


The only facts I haven't addressed are facts that have no relevance to what I'm saying.

Didn't Mutombo have some sort of contract catch or something? Or he wasn't sure where he was going to sign? I honestly can't remember. It had nothing to do with him not being physically able to play though.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Note to Ras: This is not the rookie thread.




I'm well aware. I don't actually see how that's relevant though. It is worth mentioning that this thread was created because you personally kept bringing up Greg Oden in the rookie thread and were told that if you were going to keep bringing it up, you should make a separate thread. I think it was a completely self-perpetuated issue though.



> Not to mention the thread was more about how people like rocketeer would come up with any and every excuse to try to rationalize Greg Oden's performance vs. his peers (like Brook Lopez).


Then why did it seem like you were the one bumping the thread whenever he had a bad game? From what I remember, you were the one that kept bringing his name up.



> P.S. I used to be a newspaper editor, so I do know the definition of bias.


Good for you.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> So he lost his ability in one season after playing for well over a decade already?


This is evidently a case of someone looking for anything to try to win a point.

Dikembe Mutombo didn't just lose his ability; he's been a diminished player since he was traded to New Jersey in 2002-03. He is a spot player who doesn't play extended minutes. Even when Yao Ming was injured over the years and he got some starts, Mutombo doesn't play nearly with the effectiveness he once did.

You apparently are so desperate to win brownie points for Greg Oden you actually are trying to elevate Mutombo's carcass to more than what he is.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> This is evidently a case of someone looking for anything to try to win a point.
> 
> Dikembe Mutombo didn't just lose his ability; he's been a diminished player since he was traded to New Jersey in 2002-03. He is a spot player who doesn't play extended minutes. Even when Yao Ming was injured over the years and he got some starts, Mutombo doesn't play nearly with the effectiveness he once did.
> 
> You apparently are so desperate to win brownie points for Greg Oden you actually are trying to elevate Mutombo's carcass to more than what he is.


So you think Mutombo is a bad player?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Let me ask you this, why are you so infatuated with Greg Oden that you perpetuate the issue yourself?


Evidently, unless I sign in as multiple other people such as Chan, Blue Magic, HB and plenty of others, I'm not the only person interested in Greg Oden's progress. 

It's natural for people to make such a discussion about a player who has been as ballyhooed as Oden. It's been a discusion in various points of the media throughout the season. It's fair to say there would be Oden threads and discussion if he was playing well or otherwise.

As for your tired bias allegation, that sentiment could apply only if I was critical of Oden even when he became a consistent, dominant player. Biased people don't change their evaluations even when someone is performing at a high level.

Besides, I can't be too biased against Oden since I've been a Portland TrailBlazers fan since Clyde Drexler played there.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> So you think Mutombo is a bad player?


Dikembe Mutombo is a DIMINISHED player, someone who is a shade of what he was in the '90s and the start of the decade. Don't try to read anything more into what I said -- which seems to be your other forte, besides whining.



Ras said:


> I never said "why are you attacking Greg Oden?" Don't put words in my mouth. That was never the basis of my argument.


It's the ENTIRE reason you still are posting on here -- you feel people have said enough about Greg Oden and *you* want to stop it. *You* don't feel it should warrant a thread, even though others have commented on Oden's situation.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Evidently, unless I sign in as multiple other people such as Chan, Blue Magic, HB and plenty of others, I'm not the only person interested in Greg Oden's progress.




None of them pushed (or continue to push) the issue like you.



> It's natural for people to make such a discussion about a player who has been as ballyhooed as Oden. It's been a discusion in various points of the media throughout the season. It's fair to say there would be Oden threads and discussion if he was playing well or otherwise.


I understand that, and again, that's not where my stake lies. You are negative towards him because for some reason you have a problem with him.



> As for your tired bias allegation, that sentiment could apply only if I was critical of Oden even when he became a consistent, dominant player. Biased people don't change their evaluations even when someone is performing at a high level.


It can apply now too just fine. You can be bias by simply having some problem with something and letting your personal opinion get in the way of the objective reality. Yes Oden's been disappointing, but no one other then you keep bringing him up when he has a bad game, or vest a lot into being negative in any capacity towards him. 



> Besides, I can't be too biased against Oden since I've been a Portland TrailBlazers fan since Clyde Drexler played there.


So you feel you aren't bias towards Oden?


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Dikembe Mutombo is a DIMINISHED player, someone who is a shade of what he was in the '90s and the start of the decade. Don't try to read anything more into what I said -- which seems to be your other forte, besides whining.


Of course he's diminished, but he was one of the greatest defensive players ever and is still a good defensive player. By only saying he's diminished, and is shade of what he was, you put a completely negative spin on a still good player.

Also, what are you trying to accomplish by insinuating things about myself as an individual? Do you feel that furthers your own argument?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

You know why I feel you are emotionally vested in people being critical about Greg Oden's game, Ras? You haven't said ONE THING about the people who have apologized for Oden's shortcomings.

Rocketeer has been posting much longer on this board with his ridiculous excuses. There have been numerous people here and on other threads (I did a cursory search) who have been illogically rabid toward Oden, and I never saw your name on those threads.

Now, you come on here whining about a Greg Oden thread, wanting people not to say negative things about Oden. And yet for someone who doesn't have a emotionally vested reason, you continue to come back on this thread singing the same sad song.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You know why I feel you are emotionally vested in people being critical about Greg Oden's game, Ras? You haven't said ONE THING about the people who have apologized for Oden's shortcomings.




I never said I agree with those who stand up for him blindly either. Don't make assumptions.



> Rocketeer has been posting much longer on this board with his ridiculous excuses. There have been numerous people here and on other threads (I did a cursory search) who have been illogically rabid toward Oden, and I never saw your name on those threads.


Because I thought all those Portland fans were ridiculous. Yes I believed Oden would be better then he is, but I never had any of those illogical thoughts the Portland fan base did.



> Now, you come on here whining about a Greg Oden thread, wanting people not to say negative things about Oden. And yet for someone who doesn't have a emotionally vested reason, you continue to come back on this thread singing the same sad song.


You really never do read anything I say. I never said don't say negative things about Oden. I think I may have said that 10+ times in this thread actually.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Of course he's diminished, but he was one of the greatest defensive players ever and is still a good defensive player. By only saying he's diminished, and is shade of what he was, you put a completely negative spin on a still good player.


Dude, you are WAY too sensitive here. You agree that Dikembe Mutombo is a diminished player and then the next sentence you say I put a negative spin on calling Mutombo a diminished player. Does that actually make sense to you?!?

In other words, you contradict yourself.

For someone not with a bias for apologizing for Greg Oden, you have a funny way of showing it.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Dude, you are WAY too sensitive here. You agree that Dikembe Mutombo is a diminished player and then the next sentence you say I put a negative spin on calling Mutombo a diminished player. Does that actually make sense to you?!?
> 
> In other words, you contradict yourself.
> 
> For someone not with a bias for apologizing for Greg Oden, you have a funny way of showing it.


That's not a contradiction at all. I said he was a diminished player, but I said that by simply just saying he's diminished you give the impression that he's some washed up bum and don't give any sort of inkling towards the fact that he's still quite a good player because that spins the argument in your favor.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> I never said I agree with those who stand up for him blindly either. Don't make assumptions.


It's not an assumption, though. Rocketeer has been making some of the ridiculous statements and you say nothing. HKF tries to start a personal argument, and you end up jumping in for him/her. You yourself are trying to read other things into words beyond what was said.



Ras said:


> You really never do read anything I say. I never said don't say negative things about Oden. I think I may have said that 10+ times in this thread actually.


Your whole point is about a Greg Oden thread being created, and you can't help yourself in trying to make an issue why one is created. It's because you feel people shouldn't beat up on Oden, even though in your actions you seem to have some personal stake as if someone was talking about your mother.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



bootstrenf said:


> and everything najee has posted has been facts


You act like facts can't be spun. Most arguments actually have two sides presenting factual arguments that are spun to their benefit. 



bootstrenf said:


> not sure why some people are taking it so personal......if the content of najee's posts in this thread are bothersome, then just don't read this thread......simple enough, no?


Nobody is taking it personal. Just like Najee doesn't take it personal when people say he has an agenda. Who cares, it's a message board. I'm not going to ignore members and I'm not going stop reading threads where one poster is saying things I disagree with. I have just noticed what I percieve to be an agenda towards Oden and I'm not the only one who has noticed this. So be it. My thing is I really don't understand why someone would go out of their way to disprove a casual observation like "he had a good game" by tearing down Dikembe Mutombo's defensive credentials and acting as though the Rockets had stopped playing. 

When other young players have nice games, you rarely see them torn down like that. I don't like to see that.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> That's not a contradiction at all. I said he was a diminished player, but I said that by simply just saying he's diminished you give the impression that he's some washed up bum and don't give any sort of inkling towards the fact that he's still quite a good player because that spins the argument in your favor.


Again, you are really contradicting yourself. If this is not a case of someone being emotionally vested in the conversation ...

Dikembe Mutombo is a diminished player. You agree with it. But if I say it there is some underlying meaning all tying in to Greg Oden, but if you say it that is fine.

You basically sound like rocketeer.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> It's not an assumption, though. Rocketeer has been making some of the ridiculous statements and you say nothing. HKF tries to start a personal argument, and you end up jumping in for him/her. You yourself are trying to read other things into words beyond what was said.


The only ridiculous statement I say rocketeer make was that Oden was a once in a generation centre. I took side with HKF because I agreed with what he was saying about you having an agenda (I think that's what he was speaking about).



> Your whole point is about a Greg Oden thread being created, and you can't help yourself in trying to make an issue why one is created. It's because you feel people shouldn't beat up on Oden, even though in your actions you seem to have some personal stake as if someone was talking about your mother.


This just proves you don't know what my point is at all.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Again, you are really contradicting yourself. If this is not a case of someone being emotionally vested in the conversation ...




That's an assumption on your part that you seem to make to only further your argument.



> Dikembe Mutombo is a diminished player. You agree with it. But if I say it there is some underlying meaning all tying in to Greg Oden, but if you say it that is fine.
> 
> You basically sound like rocketeer.


Not at all. I didn't say don't see he's a diminished player. I said all you're saying is he's old and diminished and is old enough to be Oden's father. As true as that is, that all implies that he's a poor player, when in actuality he's still quite a good one. If you said he's diminished but still a good defensive player, I'd say that's calling it like it is.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> This just proves you don't know what my point is at all.


Actually, you don't know your point. You're too emotionally vested to the point you can't just move away from the thread if you supposedly don't have a dog in this fight.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Not at all. I didn't say don't see he's a diminished player. I said all you're saying is he's old and diminished and is old enough to be Oden's father. As true as that is, that all implies that he's a poor player, when in actuality he's still quite a good one. If you said he's diminished but still a good defensive player, I'd say that's calling it like it is.


Again, it sounds like something YOU are reading into things. Again, you still didn't answer the question if Dikembe Mutombo is still a top-level defender at a position where able bodies are a premium why he only played 96 minutes this season.

To say Mutombo is a diminished player is a fact that can be proved by the decline in his numbers over the years compared to his peak seasons. Your opinion has nothing to back it up and you're struggling to come up with something to validate your opinion.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Actually, you don't know your point. You're too emotionally vested to the point you can't just move away from the thread if you supposedly don't have a dog in this fight.


No. I know my point, and I've said it numerous times. See...



> I argue against you because your trying to spin something negative on him with every ounce of effort and you're simply being negative to be negative because you have a personal issue with the player.





> ...I care that you're doing everything in your power to throw negatives at him...





> It's the fact that he jumps on every possible negative he can while also being the one to push the entire issue when others had let it die





> I'd do the same for any player who I feel is being put down simply for the sake of being put down.





> My interest lies in you putting down a player for the sole purpose of being negative





> I don't have issue with the thread, I have issue with you doing all in your power to say negative things about a player. You didn't just state his performance level, or his injuries, you brought him up every time he had a bad game, and would go out of your way to bump that rookie thread when you felt you could make a negative quip.



And that's only from the last couple pages.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Again, it sounds like something YOU are reading into things.




So then why did you only ever choose to say things like "he's diminished," "he's old enough to be Oden's father," etc? You give no inkling to the fact that he's still a good player.



> Again, you still didn't answer the question if Dikembe Mutombo is still a top-level defender at a position where able bodies are a premium why he only played 96 minutes this season.


Yes I did. 



> Didn't Mutombo have some sort of contract catch or something? Or he wasn't sure where he was going to sign? I honestly can't remember. It had nothing to do with him not being physically able to play though.





> To say Mutombo is a diminished player is a fact that can be proved by the decline in his numbers over the years compared to his peak seasons. Your opinion has nothing to back it up and you're struggling to come up with something to validate your opinion.


No I'm not. I said he diminished, I just said you're wording it to benefit your argument because it gives off the impression Mutombo isn't that great.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

And you still haven't answered the question: Why does it matter to you?

Your issues can be answered by not coming on the thread. But yet you can't seem to control yourself and continue to pop up. Not to mention you're incredibly oversensitive about anything you feel is a direct or an indirect criticism of Greg Oden (at least, your sensitivity is when I say it).


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> And you still haven't answered the question: Why does it matter to you?




Because I feel it's unjust and unwarranted.



> Your issues can be answered by not coming on the thread. But yet you can't seem to control yourself and continue to pop up.


I can control myself, I just enjoy this so much.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Because I feel it's unjust and unwarranted.


Again, what are you going to do besides whine and be overly sensitive and contradict yourself when it comes to words?



Ras said:


> I can control myself, I just enjoy this so much.


Sounds like to me you need to find something else constructive to do.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Again, what are you going to do besides whine and be overly sensitive and contradict yourself when it comes to words?


How is that anyhow relevant to the question you asked and the answer I gave? All you're doing is implying things about me as a person to help paint your argument in your colours.



> Sounds like to me you need to find something else constructive to do.


I'm actually practicing for a jazz audition as we speak. Actually, not anymore, now I'm learning some Taylor Swift song for a student of mine.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> When other young players have nice games, you rarely see them torn down like that. I don't like to see that.


If I was tearing down Greg Oden's game Saturday in my initial post on the subject, I would have said something about his game. I gave the context in which his numbers came, and some people are so sensitive about anything that doesn't refer to Oden in some overly glowing terms.

kflo later asked me directly about Oden's game, and I gave a critique of his game. My answer was consistent in that it is hard to evaluate such a performance in essentially a game where the bulk of his production came when the game was over. I even made a comment about Oden looking fluid on offense at times and his hook shot in the fourth quarter, suggesting he seems to be working on an offensive move. 

The whole exchange proves my point -- to some of the apparent Oden zealots, anything that remotely seems to be considered a knock on him will get the natives restless. When he does something remotely favorable, they go overboard with the praise. They also like to move the bar when it's suitable.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> How is that anyhow relevant to the question you asked and the answer I gave? All you're doing is implying things about me as a person to help paint your argument in your colours.


It's very relevant. You voluntarily post here and for someone who supposedly is not interested in the subject you spend a lot of energy trying to dissuade me. Then you show incidents that suggest you have blinders when it suits your purpose.

So you're either a missionary, a cyber stalker or someone who wants to whine about something. That's what I can't understand and apparently several other people -- you seem emotionally invested with some unexplained objective.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> It's very relevant. You voluntarily post here and for someone who supposedly is not interested in the subject you spend a lot of energy trying to dissuade me.




What is it you think I'm trying to dissuade you from?



> Then you show incidents that suggest you have blinders when it suits your purpose.


Show me these incidents.



> So you're either a missionary, a cyber stalker or someone who wants to whine about something. That's what I can't understand and apparently several other people -- you seem emotionally invested with some unexplained objective.


You honestly can't get my point after I've laid it out for you so plainly?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> So then why did you only ever choose to say things like "he's diminished," "he's old enough to be Oden's father," etc? You give no inkling to the fact that he's still a good player.


A player who supposedly is regarded as a big-time prospective player should be able to handle a considerably older player, ever if the older player was good at one point like Dikembe Mutombo was.

And yes, I can make the argument that Mutombo is diminished and not a top-level defender any more simply by pointing out his minutes for the season. No team is going to have such a player sit out all but 96 minutes of a season (barring injury) if he can contribute at such a level. Particularly when the player is a center, where able bodies are a premium.

You, however, cannot make the argument otherwise.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> A player who supposedly is regarded as a big-time prospective player should be able to handle a considerably older player, ever if the older player was good at one point like Dikembe Mutombo was.
> 
> And yes, I can make the argument that Mutombo is diminished and not a top-level defender any more simply by pointing out his minutes for the season. No team is going to have such a player sit out all but 96 minutes of a season (barring injury) if he can contribute at such a level. Particularly when the player is a center, where able bodies are a premium.
> 
> You, however, cannot make the argument otherwise.


You again have proven you don't read what I write. I've addressed all of this. Also, stop implying that Deke is no longer good and should be easy to beat because he's old.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Ras, I find this roundabout discussion with you as tiring as dealing with rocketeer. It's best I put you on Ignore.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Ras, I find this roundabout discussion with you as tiring as dealing with rocketeer. It's best I put you on Ignore.


I told you to a while ago. I still stand by my point either way.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> kflo later asked me directly about Oden's game, and I gave a critique of his game. My answer was consistent in that it is hard to evaluate such a performance in essentially a game where the bulk of his production came when the game was over. I even made a comment about Oden looking fluid on offense at times and his hook shot in the fourth quarter, suggesting he seems to be working on an offensive move.




Do you think kflo just asked you at random? 



Najee said:


> The whole exchange proves my point -- to some of the apparent Oden zealots, anything that remotely seems to be considered a knock on him will get the natives restless. When he does something remotely favorable, they go overboard with the praise. They also like to move the bar when it's suitable.




Well to me it's just nitpicking. Like for example, Brandon Bass averaged 12 and 7 for the Mavericks in limited minutes in the playoffs last year against the Hornets, and he was one of the bright spots for them and really one of their best players in that series. People naturally said things like he had a nice series. Nothing overboard, just noting his performance. To me, it would have been weird if someone came in and pointed out that the series was over in 5 games and the Hornets were more focused on Dirk than Bass, and so on. That just seems like unnecessary commentary without some kind of ulterior motivation. 

But hey, maybe that's just the kind of fan you are. You're a contrarian. You're buzz killington. As far as moving the bar, that goes both ways. If you're going to maintain that Lopez is better than him and will be better than him, you need to lower your standards a bit for the guy. You can't hold him to hall of fame standards if you yourself don't expect him to be better than Brooke Lopez.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Here is Ras' statement about Dikembe Mutombo "still is a good player:"



Ras said:


> Didn't Mutombo have some sort of contract catch or something? Or he wasn't sure where he was going to sign? I honestly can't remember. It had nothing to do with him not being physically able to play though.


As I said, Mutombo played 96 minutes in nine games _for the season_ -- which evidently means that Houston did not feel Mutombo was good enough to warrant minutes in its rotation.

Ras' argument is dumb, IMO. You're not considered a good enough player any more if you hardly play, particularly when you man a position where big men who can play are at a premium. Citing Mutombo's age is a reference to his age -- his playing time is a reflection of how effective he is as a player.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Well to me it's just nitpicking. Like for example, Brandon Bass averaged 12 and 7 for the Mavericks in limited minutes in the playoffs last year against the Hornets, and he was one of the bright spots for them and really one of their best players in that series. People naturally said things like he had a nice series. Nothing overboard, just noting his performance. To me, it would have been weird if someone came in and pointed out that the series was over in 5 games and the Hornets were more focused on Dirk than Bass, and so on. That just seems like unnecessary commentary without some kind of ulterior motivation.


It's apples and oranges. Brandon Bass isn't being projected as some dominant player and consistently compared to elite players at his position whenever it's suitably convenient. Bass actually has exceeded expectations as a player (a second-round pick who previously played sparingly for, ironically, New Orleans) and elevated his stock because of how he played in the '08 playoffs.

Greg Oden isn't afforded that because of expectations (not just on this Web site). You're not going to say it's fine that Oden still is sitting behind Joel Przybilla at the end of his first season, and yet receive a huge benefit of the doubt. At times, Oden looks lost and terrible on the court and whatever potential he has shown has been in flashes so far.

Right now, it's fair to say the former second-round pick has been more of a value than the former No. 1 overall pick whom some pundits want to compare with some of the best centers ever. That seems to be what you're not getting -- what Bass did given his profile was more than expected; if Oden performed at Bass' level, it's the absolute floor for what is expected.



Sir Patchwork said:


> As far as moving the bar, that goes both ways. If you're going to maintain that Lopez is better than him and will be better than him, you need to lower your standards a bit for the guy. You can't hold him to hall of fame standards if you yourself don't expect him to be better than Brooke Lopez.


Actually, I never held Oden to some hall-of-fame standards. He has played at my expectations so far -- foul prone, history of injuries and slow recovery, limited offensive game, at times lethargic and unenthusiastic on the floor. He looks like the same player he was at Ohio State to me, and I wasn't that impressed with him then. 

What is more perplexing is when you still have people projecting him favorably even after this season (like the recent Sporting News rating him ahead of the likes of Kevin Durant, O.J. Mayo and Al Horford among the top three picks of the 2007 and '08 drafts).

The bar will stay where it is because such proclamations and expectations were set by the ones who saw Oden as that talent even when the production doesn't merit it. I have no problem if I'm proven wrong (after all, Portland would benefit) but this is starting to look like what I thought would happen. Oden reminds me way too much of the Benoit Benjamin, Joe Barry Carroll (without JBC's stats) and Michael Olowkandi types.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

as pedestrian as oden looked, his rookie year PER was still better than any season from any of those guys save for jbc (joe barely cares) in '83. it still seems likely that he will at least ascend towards the top of the best centers list. granted, it's not a very high bar. but he's clearly on pace to be better than those guys. and most other centers.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> as pedestrian as oden looked, his rookie year PER was still better than any season from any of those guys save for jbc (joe barely cares) in '83. it still seems likely that he will at least ascend towards the top of the best centers list. granted, it's not a very high bar. but he's clearly on pace to be better than those guys. and most other centers.


So was Ralph Sampson, who was considerably better than any of those players I named. For that matter, Bill Walton. 

That's the part that seems to be overlooked -- in addition to his numerous other flaws is the lingering question of whether Greg Oden is brittle. Not only is Oden's numbers marginal given his pedigree, his career could take a nasty turn with the perceived injury questions. 

PER means little to anything in this discussion, especially if Oden couldn't match Benoit Benjamin's and Joe Barry Carroll's rookie season numbers. You're not telling me Oden sitting on the bench behind Joel Przybilla is better than having Carroll averaging 18.9 points and 9.3 rebounds per game as a rookie (not to mention JBC played prior to the development of PER).


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

i can't predict whether he gets injured again or not. if he doesn't, he projects to be at least pretty good. of course, pretty good would be a huge disappointment. if he does get injured again, then who knows. 

per doesn't mean little. as i said, he surpassed their PER in every season of their careers, save for 1. it's an informative stat. and it's a pretty good predictive stat. and it does a pretty good job of measuring performance for the minutes you play.

the fact that per wasn't around for their careers doesn't mean it meaningless in measuring their career. 

oden played on a 54 win team. jbc and benoit on sub .500 teams as rookies. i'm not commenting on whether his season was "better" than jbc's rookie year. but in terms of predicting peak value, i'd still expect oden to peak higher than jbc, who btw had some talent but clearly underperformed his potential anyway.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> per doesn't mean little. as i said, he surpassed their PER in every season of their careers, save for 1. it's an informative stat. and it's a pretty good predictive stat. and it does a pretty good job of measuring performance for the minutes you play.


Greg Oden's PER is based on playing backup centers in an era where there are few quality big men, not to mention his range largely was a dunk. PER also means little when you can't play for half the game and you're sitting behind essentially a center regarded as a backup-type. It doesn't have more of a bearing over actual performance numbers and observational study.

Again, would you rather have Greg Oden as a rookie or Joe Barry Carroll as a rookie? Give me the guy who puts up 18 and 9 against better competition. And remember, you don't get Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge when you pick "Mr. Glass."


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Here is Ras' statement about Dikembe Mutombo "still is a good player:"
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, Mutombo played 96 minutes in nine games _for the season_ -- which evidently means that Houston did not feel Mutombo was good enough to warrant minutes in its rotation.
> 
> Ras' argument is dumb, IMO. You're not considered a good enough player any more if you hardly play, particularly when you man a position where big men who can play are at a premium. Citing Mutombo's age is a reference to his age -- his playing time is a reflection of how effective he is as a player.


Weren't you putting me on ignore?

That statement had nothing to do with why he's "still a good player," though, but thanks for trying to insinuate more things against me.


----------



## Bon]{eRz

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Here is Ras' statement about Dikembe Mutombo "still is a good player:"
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, Mutombo played 96 minutes in nine games _for the season_ -- which evidently means that Houston did not feel Mutombo was good enough to warrant minutes in its rotation.
> 
> Ras' argument is dumb, IMO. You're not considered a good enough player any more if you hardly play, particularly when you man a position where big men who can play are at a premium. Citing Mutombo's age is a reference to his age -- his playing time is a reflection of how effective he is as a player.


Houston signed Mutombo on as an insurance policy, to back up a top 2 centre who has been injury prone in the past, not as someone they need to log major minutes. His (short) season and playing time this year looks very similar to his season last year, up to the point when Yao went down and Mutombo began to start. During that stretch Houston's ppg allowed dropped significantly, allowing only 0.6ppg more than the league leading Boston defense, and they won 19 of 26 games.

That that you try to discount a player's performance because his numbers may have come playing against a strictly defensive minded centre such as Mutombo rather than Yao, speaks volumes either about your biasness, or your limited understanding of basketball.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



unpronouncable name said:


> Houston signed Mutombo on as an insurance policy, to back up a top 2 centre who has been injury prone in the past, not as someone they need to log major minutes. *His (short) season and playing time this year looks very similar to his season last year, up to the point when Yao went down and Mutombo began to start. During that stretch Houston's ppg allowed dropped significantly, allowing only 0.6ppg more than the league leading Boston defense, and they won 19 of 26 games.*


Good strawman argument, which I put in bold face.

Dikembe Mutombo's season a year ago has no relevance or bearing on the fact he played 96 minutes this season. The fact you actually tried to tie not playing in 73 games to a season where he actually played in 30 more games (pressed into service because of Yao Ming's health) shows how far up your anus you went to try to make a point.

If Mutombo was effective, he would have played more than 96 minutes all season (with the bulk of those minutes coming in two games -- March 16 vs. New Orleans and April 10 vs. Golden State). He would have been in the rotation with some regular sense of playing time. You're simply a sad example of what happens when someone tries to take advanced statistics out of context in order to rationalize something that is very basic.


----------



## Bon]{eRz

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Good strawman argument, which I put in bold face.
> 
> Dikembe Mutombo's season a year has no relevance or bearing on the fact he played 96 minutes this season. The fact you actually tried to tie not playing in 72 games to a season where he actually played in 30 more games (pressed into service because of Yao Ming's health) shows how far up your anus you went to try to make a point.
> 
> If Mutombo was effective, he would have played more than 96 minutes all season (with the bulk of those minutes coming in two games -- March 16 vs. New Orleans and April 10 vs. Golden State). He would have been in the rotation with some regular sense of playing time. You're simply a sad example of what happens when someone tries to take advanced statistics out of context in order to rationalize something that is very basic.



Mutombo wasn’t available the entire season and hence wasn’t benched for 72 games - he didn’t sign with Houston until the 2009 portion of the season. 

You’re knocking Mutombo’s defense by claiming that if it was any good, he would’ve been played more than 100 mins this year. My quote which you put in bold proved the fallacy of this argument. Up until Yao went down last year, Mutombo had played a total of 110 minutes on the season. Your line of arguing here states that because up to that point he hadn’t been used more by Houston, his defense and overall effectiveness must not be up to par. As we saw, you would have been as wrong then as you are now – Houston’s defense improved with Mutombo replacing Yao in the lineup to be one of the best in the league, and they even went on to win a higher percentage of games than they had with Yao at centre that season. Come on... if you’re old enough to have credit cards older than some forum members here is can’t possibly be this hard for you to make the connection. Mutombo is only going to get meaningful playing time if Yao can’t play for some reason, and that can’t be used that as a knock against his defense. 

Judging from the responses you’re getting to your arguments I think its pretty clear who’s head is up their anus here.


----------



## dubc15

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

there are optimists, who see the glass half full, pessimists, who see the glass half empty, and realists, who call it as it is, 50%. and then there is najee, who can magically see it as a quarter filled glass. najee, please don't call yourself a realist.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Bon]{eRz said:


> Up until Yao went down last year, Mutombo had played a total of 110 minutes on the season. Your line of arguing here states that because up to that point he hadn’t been used more by Houston, his defense and overall effectiveness must not be up to par. As we saw, you would have been as wrong then as you are now – Houston’s defense improved with Mutombo replacing Yao in the lineup to be one of the best in the league, and they even went on to win a higher percentage of games than they had with Yao at centre that season..


The statement is very simple -- what happened in 2007-08 doesn't have any bearing in 2008-09. 

You simply are projecting with a flawed premise that because Dikembe Mutombo replaced Yao Ming in the lineup a year ago and Houston's defensive numbers improved during that span, then the same premise holds true for Mutombo and Houston this season even though he didn't play in a game until Feb. 10 and the bulk of his 96 minutes came in two games in March and April -- simply because Mutombo was on the roster.

It's a fallacious argument, pure and simple. It's a bad projection at that because you don't have a relevant sample to make that conclusion. Again, a dumb premise with a fallacious conclusion.

BTW, I didn't say Mutombo was benched for 73 games -- I said he did not play in all but nine Houston's 82 games (and even when he was signed he played sparingly, save for those two games).


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



dubc15 said:


> there are optimists, who see the glass half full, pessimists, who see the glass half empty, and realists, who call it as it is, 50%. and then there is najee, who can magically see it as a quarter filled glass. najee, please don't call yourself a realist.


Just like you can't call yourself a man. 

I like how all of a sudden two people who barely post on a Web site despite being members for years *suddenly* show up in the middle of an argument. Seems a little suspicious.


----------



## Bon]{eRz

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The statement is very simple -- what happened in 2007-08 doesn't have any bearing in 2008-09.
> 
> You simply are projecting with a flawed premise that because Dikembe Mutombo replaced Yao Ming in the lineup a year ago and Houston's defensive numbers improved during that span, then the same premise holds true for Mutombo and Houston this season even though he didn't play in a game until Feb. 10 and the bulk of his 96 minutes came in two games in March and April -- simply because Mutombo was on the roster.
> 
> It's a fallacious argument, pure and simple. It's a bad projection at that because you don't have a relevant sample to make that conclusion. Again, a dumb premise with a fallacious conclusion.
> 
> BTW, I didn't say Mutombo was benched for 72 games -- I said he did not play in 72 of Houston's 81 games (and even when he was signed he played sparingly, save for those two games).


You’re missing the point. Your hypothesis that a player must not be a good defender if they’ve only logged 100 mins on the season was proven to be incorrect by Mutombo himself just last year. 

Maybe he has declined this season ageing one more year (I haven’t seen him play), but you’re using solely his mins played as a gauge for his defensive ability, and in Mutombo’s situation mins played is irrelevant due to his role on the team – as an insurance policy against a Yao injury. Judging from how he played just last season, and his defensive stats in the time he’s played this season, he still seems to be one of the premier defenders in the league.

Anyway, I’m dragging this way off topic. Carry on with the Oden hating.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

At this point of his career, Mutombo should be the least athletic guy on the court, right?

Look, I think Najee is biased in a sense that he's purposefully calling it out, but nothing he said is unjustified. Greg Oden was the surest prospect in the past ten years. Before the draft, I remember Portland fans saying they would take Oden over Dwight Howard. Just awful homerism.

Now, Oden is a bench player. The backlash is appropriate, given the hype.


----------



## Bon]{eRz

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Just like you can't call yourself a man.
> 
> I like how all of a sudden two people who barely post on a Web site despite being members for years *suddenly* show up in the middle of an argument. Seems a little suspicious.



Sorry I don't have 1000+ posts - I have a life, and I wear expensive clothes and spend the greats amount of money I earn from my successful business.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Bon]{eRz said:


> You’re missing the point. Your hypothesis that a player must not be a good defender if they’ve only logged 100 mins on the season was proven to be incorrect by Mutombo himself just last year.
> 
> Maybe he has declined this season ageing one more year *(I haven’t seen him play), *


No, the point is that if Dikembe Mutombo was an effective player and Houston could use him, he would have played more regularly during his time on the roster this season.

The fact that you haven't seen him play (by your admission) merely adds fuel to how fallacious your argument is. You actually want to have an argument concerning Mutombo and try to make a piss-poor drive-by argument while admitting you haven't seen Mutombo play this season.

And the basis of your argument is using the 2007-08 season as a frame of reference. You basically discredited yourself even more.

By any measure, you still are talking about a nearly 43-year-old center well past his prime, vs. a signigicantly younger center in a matchup where the contest was already over. Should we be surprised that Greg Oden is supposed to be productive against a significantly older Mutombo?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Bon]{eRz said:


> Sorry I don't have 1000+ posts - I have a life, and I wear expensive clothes and spend the greats amount of money I earn from my successful business.


Apparently a life where you make arguments about players you don't even watch on TV. That, and a life consisting of making fallacious arguments and responding to statements not made to you.

Go back to lurking and/or your other online handle.


----------



## Basel

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

*Stay On Topic.*​


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Chan said:


> At this point of his career, Mutombo should be the least athletic guy on the court, right?


My point is some people are eager to give Greg Oden any benefit of the doubt, ready to give some praise for anything. That smacks of desperation.

The bulk of Oden's second-half production in Game 1 came with his team down at least 25 points and playing against a nearly 43-year-old center who is way past his prime. He puts those numbers and people started posting he had a good game (started by someone whose handle is GregOden), ignoring the fact Portland got blown out and his numbers came in garbage time.

Please don't tell me the bar is THAT low for validation.


----------



## Bon]{eRz

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> My point is some people are eager to give Greg Oden any benefit of the doubt, ready to give some praise for anything. *That smacks of desperation*.



The irony. You're the one acting like you have some personal vandetta against Oden. 

I'm not a fan of Portland or Oden. Don't really have a view one way or the other on how his career has or will pan out. Just an objective bball fan who enjoys reading insightful observations from some of the better posters on this forum. As you noted I hardly post here, and even I was drawn in to this discussion because I share the frustration some of the other posters are expressing with your irratonal hatred for Oden. 

Tell me how many of Mutombo's 100 mins this season you've seen that your opinion on his abilities is more valid than mine?



Najee said:


> Apparently a life where you make arguments about players you don't even watch on TV. That, and a life consisting of making fallacious arguments and responding to statements not made to you.
> 
> Go back to lurking and/or your other online handle.


It was the best najee type of come back I could come up with:



Najee said:


> Yeah, a pathetic life -- as a small business owner, I likely make far more money than you do living off your parents or with some roommates. Let's compare clothing, retirement plan statements and tax returns and see who is the real loser.
> 
> But I'm sure you're going to tell me that someone who has time to post 38,000-plus times on a basketball Web site has it going on, right?


:lol: smacks of insecurity


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Najee, is being rude really so called for?


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> It's apples and oranges. Brandon Bass isn't being projected as some dominant player and consistently compared to elite players at his position whenever it's suitably convenient. Bass actually has exceeded expectations as a player (a second-round pick who previously played sparingly for, ironically, New Orleans) and elevated his stock because of how he played in the '08 playoffs.
> 
> Greg Oden isn't afforded that because of expectations (not just on this Web site). You're not going to say it's fine that Oden still is sitting behind Joel Przybilla at the end of his first season, and yet receive a huge benefit of the doubt. At times, Oden looks lost and terrible on the court and whatever potential he has shown has been in flashes so far.
> 
> Right now, it's fair to say the former second-round pick has been more of a value than the former No. 1 overall pick whom some pundits want to compare with some of the best centers ever. That seems to be what you're not getting -- what Bass did given his profile was more than expected; if Oden performed at Bass' level, it's the absolute floor for what is expected.
> 
> Actually, I never held Oden to some hall-of-fame standards. He has played at my expectations so far -- foul prone, history of injuries and slow recovery, limited offensive game, at times lethargic and unenthusiastic on the floor. He looks like the same player he was at Ohio State to me, and I wasn't that impressed with him then.
> 
> What is more perplexing is when you still have people projecting him favorably even after this season (like the recent Sporting News rating him ahead of the likes of Kevin Durant, O.J. Mayo and Al Horford among the top three picks of the 2007 and '08 drafts).
> 
> The bar will stay where it is because such proclamations and expectations were set by the ones who saw Odom as that talent even when the production doesn't merit it. I have no problem if I'm proven wrong (after all, Portland would benefit) but this is starting to look like what I thought would happen. Oden reminds me way too much of the Benoit Benjamin, Joe Barry Carroll (without JBC's stats) and Michael Olowkandi types.


So what you're saying is that Greg Oden could become Alonzo Mourning and you'd still chime in about how he didn't become Hakeem Olajuwon? Apparently your standards for him are that high, though you clearly don't think he will be even close to that level. I don't know, I'm not going to go in circles with you like Ras, but I will say that it sounds like you are the one moving the bar. 

I invite you to create a thread polling people's opinion on how Greg Oden's career will play out. I can almost gaurantee you that by now people wouldn't say hall of fame. My guess is that the public opinion would suggest a couple all-star appearances at best. The general perception has changed since draft day.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Here's your problem, Bone} erz:

1.) You made an argument about Dikembe Mutombo, not based on his play this season but some convoluted projection based on what happened with Houston's defensive statistics _last year._

2.) By any measure, Greg Oden should have an advantage over a much older Mutombo. Oden is considerably younger, is probably stronger than Mutombo and definitely has a more massive frame than Mutombo. If Oden's pedigree is as good as advertised, that makes it even more pronounced.

3.) The bulk of Oden's production in Game 1 came in the second half against a backup center getting more than the minutes he got in most of the few games in which he did play this season.

4.) By any measure, Mutombo is a diminished player -- and definitely so compared to his prime. Ras wanted to twist it that I said Mutombo was a bad defensive player (which I never said). Again, if Mutombo was an effective player he would have gotten more minutes in Houston's rotation during the season. It doesn't mean he's garbage, just clearly not the player he once was.

Now, if you want to keep coming up with some more ridiculous rational on Mutombo when you clearly admitted you didn't see him play this season, then go right ahead. But I find it silly when some people arbitrarily want to post about Oden's "good game" when they overlook the fact Portland got ran out of the gym and what Oden did was against a nearly 43-year-old center in garbage time.

That, or you can post what Oden did in Game 2 in Portland's win.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> So what you're saying is that Greg Oden could become Alonzo Mourning and you'd still chime in about how he didn't become Hakeem Olajuwon?


Seems to me like you can't read that well.

The general thought was a lot of people inexplicably thought Greg Oden was going to be this top-level, big-impact center immediately and I never saw how they came to that conclusion, based on what I saw at Ohio State.

And so far, it looks like I'm right.

Comparing Alonzo Mourning to Oden is an insult to 'Zo, BTW. Unless you're comparing him to the post-kidney operation 'Zo in the final stages of his career. Right now, Oden needs to concentrate on beating out Joel Przybilla for a starting job -- as a rookie, 'Zo would have beaten out Pryzbilla easily by training camp.

And no, the perception of Oden has changed since he got on the floor and started playing -- save for the few zealots who still take a personal affront to any criticism.


----------



## dubc15

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Just like you can't call yourself a man.
> 
> I like how all of a sudden two people who barely post on a Web site despite being members for years *suddenly* show up in the middle of an argument. Seems a little suspicious.


lol you think too highly of yourself. no one's going to make fake accounts to prove you wrong. i came out of hiding because your red faced font is just too alluring. either that or your obnoxiousness.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



dubc15 said:


> lol you think too highly of yourself. no one's going to make fake accounts to prove you wrong. i came out of hiding because your red faced font is just too alluring. either that or your obnoxiousness.


How well did Greg Oden do tonight? That's all I have to say. By now, Oden's play should be doing all the talking.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> And so far, it looks like I'm right.


Was this your point all along?


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> How well did Greg Oden do tonight? That's all I have to say. By now, Oden's play should be doing all the talking.


He has a point here. Oden looked like garbage tonight, and to be honest this has been the case most of the season.

Javale Mcgee from the wizards have impressed me more than oden this season.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Seems to me like you can't read that well.


No, you just failed to understand the purpose of the hypothetical. You claim others are too emotional about this, but you're the one instigating and turning healthy disagreement and sports debate into name-calling and belittlement. Go take a walk if you can't be civil guy. It's not that serious.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> No, you just failed to understand the purpose of the hypothetical. You claim others are too emotional about this, but you're the one instigating and turning healthy disagreement and sports debate into name-calling and belittlement.


How well did Greg Oden do tonight? That's all I have to say. By now, Oden's play should be doing all the talking. 

You don't have to cherry-pick games and make excuses for him if he's got game -- I just find it totally laughable and transparent how you front-runners and apologists act when Oden has what is an atypical game (Saturday) and then get defensive when he puts up his more typical game (Tuesday night -- 4 points, 6 fouls in 11 minutes).


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden didn't have much impact tonight. Foul trouble, which is not unusual. 

It's not as hard as you think to be unbias.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Oden didn't have much impact tonight. Foul trouble, which is not unusual.


The problem is that game is more par for the course for Greg Oden this season. But some of the Oden apologists and front-runners will say otherwise and cite 5,000 excuses and cherry-pick the few good games he has as "the next big thing is here."


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The problem is that game is more par for the course for Greg Oden this season. But some of the Oden apologists and front-runners will say otherwise and cite 5,000 excuses and cherry-pick the few good games he has as "the next big thing is here."


I haven't heard anyone outside of Portland say he is the next big thing in quite a while. You are right that these type of games are not unusual where he can't stay on the court because of bad defensive habits that lead to fouls. When he does have another good game, just be prepared to hear about it. People (myself included) want to see him succeed, so any sign of it is worthy of atleast being pointed out.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I haven't heard anyone outside of Portland say he is the next big thing in quite a while. You are right that these type of games are not unusual where he can't stay on the court because of bad defensive habits that lead to fouls. When he does have another good game, just be prepared to hear about it. People (myself included) want to see him succeed, so any sign of it is worthy of atleast being pointed out.


I have no problem at all if Greg Oden has a _legitimate_ good game. A _deserved_ good game. My point was that some front-runners are too quick to look for any sign, such as saying he had a "good game" Saturday when his team was run off the floor and most of his production came against a way past-his-prime center in garbage time.

Like I said, I wasn't expecting Oden to be the next David Robinson based on what I saw at Ohio State. But you can't tell me _anyone_ would have been satisfied seeing Oden backing up _Joel Przybilla_ still at this stage and looking a lot of times like the worse of the two.

It's way too early to call Oden a bust like LaRue Martin, but still ...


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

To be fair, everyone is teaming up on Najee, and for what? What is he saying that isn't really on point?? And I dont understand why he is still being questioned or attacked for making this thread when he was told to by Basel(sucks). 

You guys ask why he keeps bringing up negatives? Because when you have an opinion of a player or you make a statement about a player that turns out to be right... But you were bashed heavily for initially making the statement(like almost anybody who ever questions Oden is)... Then when what do you want them to do? Hide in a corner?? He's not even attacking Oden, he's just bringing up legitamite concerns about the guys game that people just seem to want to ignore & never be talked about. Oden is a public figure, he is not immune from ridicule just like Kobe or Lebron or any other player isnt immune from ridicule. If people cant handle the heat, then they need to get out the kitchen.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I have no problem at all if Greg Oden has a _legitimate_ good game. A _deserved_ good game. My point was that some front-runners are too quick to look for any sign, such as saying he had a "good game" Saturday when his team was run off the floor and most of his production came against a way past-his-prime center in garbage time.
> 
> Like I said, I wasn't expecting Oden to be the next David Robinson based on what I saw at Ohio State. But you can't tell me _anyone_ would have been satisfied seeing Oden backing up _Joel Przybilla_ still at this stage and looking a lot of times like the worse of the two.
> 
> It's way too early to call Oden a bust like LaRue Martin, but still ...


I don't agree entirely with the context of his production on Saturday, but otherwise I agree with and understand your stance on the guy. If he becomes as good as we want him to be, we won't have to jump on every decent to good game he has.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Well, I'm not getting the whole Dikembe Mutombo angle and why some people are defensive about it. He will be 43 years old this summer, is clearly not the player he was and played a lot of minutes in a game that was decided by halftime. 

Agree or disagree, I feel the circumstances of the game Saturday does make a dramatic difference in the context of Greg Oden's performance vs. Houston. A lot of what he put up was with the league's No. 2 center on the bench and his team down 25 points, with Oden's opposition being an 18-year-veteran who is dramatically slowed down. I can't see how that cannot be taken into consideration.

If you really have to go out of your way to legitimize Greg Oden's play by putting up that example given what's expected of Oden, that should indicate some concern.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I don't agree entirely with the context of his production on Saturday, but otherwise I agree with and understand your stance on the guy. If he becomes as good as we want him to be, we won't have to jump on every decent to good game he has.


My point was, is and always will be this: Given Greg Oden's supposed pedigree, shouldn't we _expect_ him to be productive against a nearly 43-year-old backup center (even if the backup center was once a very good defender)?

If you have to get to that point to say a guy had a "good game" under those circumstances -- while not taking into account his team already was blown off the floor when he came in -- you really are reaching.

I can understand people's objection if I was discounting Oden's numbers were largely against Dwight Howard or the Dikembe Mutombo of the '90s, but given where Mutombo is at this stage of his career and the game was out of hand (meaning Oden didn't have to face Yao Ming) you have to look at it at best with an incomplete grade, IMO.


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oh, I get it, it's a reference to Unbreakable.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I agree. Oden's impact and development isn't nearly as accelerated as many initially thought it would be. I dont see what's wrong with saying that. That's not to say he cant work on his game, adjust to the speed of the league, and improve on some of his bad habits in the near future... But his initial impact as a rookie has been a disapointment. I'm sure Oden will tell you so mush himself based on his own hype. Yes, he has shown glimmers of light. And yes, he has also shown growing pains. I think it's accurate to say that his develepmont is gonna take some time though. More time than many people were willing to admit before the season.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I totally agree, Blue Magic. Greg Oden has a lot of work to do on his game. Most people projected him to be an impact player -- maybe not as overzealous as some people were on this board -- but to say the party line was sitting behind Joel Przybilla and drawing fouls at ridiculous rates is lying.

If some other high draft picks (especially former No. 1 selections) had the initial year Oden had, they would have labeled as potential busts and likely booed out of their team's arena. I mean, Oden had games where he would draw five fouls in 10 to 15 minutes with meager stat lines!


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> I agree. Oden's impact and development isn't nearly as accelerated as many initially thought it would be. I dont see what's wrong with saying that. That's not to say he cant work on his game, adjust to the speed of the league, and improve on some of his bad habits in the near future... But his initial impact as a rookie has been a disapointment. I'm sure Oden will tell you so mush himself based on his own hype. Yes, he has shown glimmers of light. And yes, he has also shown growing pains. I think it's accurate to say that his develepmont is gonna take some time though. More time than many people were willing to admit before the season.


I guess for me at least, I never disagreed with that. I have no problems admitting that. My qualms came when Najee was bringing down Oden every chance he got and seemingly going out of his way to be negative towards him. Part of it seems like he's just saying "I told you so," because he never thought Oden would be that great. All those talks of him being that great died down long ago, and you're not fighting anyone anymore on that front. Why keep bringing him up then? Why perpetuate it when we all agree other then to be negative or rub it in?


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> I guess for me at least, I never disagreed with that. I have no problems admitting that. My qualms came when Najee was bringing down Oden every chance he got and seemingly going out of his way to be negative towards him. Part of it seems like he's just saying "I told you so," because he never thought Oden would be that great. *All those talks of him being that great died down long ago*, and you're not fighting anyone anymore on that front.


Not necessarily.



> Why keep bringing him up then? Why perpetuate it when we all agree other then to be negative or rub it in?


Why did we all have to read soo many threads about who Oden was better than before he played one NBA minute? IDK why, but it just is. This thread is here. Idk why you have to ask this question so many times? I think we've given the best answer possible numerous times. Idk what else I can tell you.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

GregOden pulled up this thread up after Saturday's game, and several people chimed in on Greg Oden's "good game." GregOden was one of the main trash-talkers and flamers, based on what I have seen of previous posts in other threads.

Rocketeers' rationalization of numbers have been a constant example of trying to explain away any of Oden's shortcomings.

Several instances on the Blazers site practically started similar flame wars when discussing Oden's rookie season, not to mention the obligatory "moving the bar" logic whenever it's suitable for the ardent Oden supporter.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Not necessarily.


I guess I haven't seen anyone around here spreading that around.



> Why did we all have to read soo many threads about who Oden was better than before he played one NBA minute? IDK why, but it just is. The thread is here. Idk why you have to ask this question so many times? I think we've given the best answer possible numerous times. Idk what else I can tell you.


That doesn't really answer the question though, that just says, they did it so now we can do it. Not that that's wrong, but most of those were Portland fans who all left anyways, and is it not a little childish to play "I told you so," and rub it in their faces because they really hyped him up?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Why did we all have to read soo many threads about who Oden was better than before he played one NBA minute? IDK why, but it just is. This thread is here. Idk why you have to ask this question so many times? I think we've given the best answer possible numerous times. Idk what else I can tell you.


I agree. Ras acts like the thread is some irresistable object he is compelled to enter, and he asks the same question that's been answered by several people and he still asks it in an unsatisfied tone.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I agree. Ras acts like the thread is some irresistable object he is compelled to enter,




Why do you keep trying to draw up things based on assumptions about me that aren't true?



> and he asks the same question that's been answered by several people and he still asks it in an unsatisfied tone.


I never got an answer. What you said before was that you created the thread because Basel told you to, but the only reason he asked was because you personally were filling the rookie thread with Oden and you were bringing the thread off-topic.

The only thing that was said about why you perpetuated negativity was just mentioned by Blue Magic; they all did it before and now we are.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Why do you keep trying to draw up things based on assumptions about me that aren't true?


That's not an assumption -- you choose to come into the thread and repeatedly ask the same question to several people (including myself) and still you refuse to accept the answer. It's very annoying, particularly when you say you really don't care about the topic and continue on in that manner.



Ras said:


> I never got an answer. What you said before was that you created the thread because Basel told you to, but the only reason he asked was because you personally were filling the rookie thread with Oden and you were bringing the thread off-topic.


That is the answer -- you refuse to accept it, for whatever reason. It's like you're looking for something more profound than what it is, when in reality it is that simple. Again, it's annoying because it's been answered numerous times and you keep bringing back that same old bone.

At least two other moderators have said the same thing, but you continue to refuse that answer for whatever reason. I created the thread and you somehow won't accept the answer.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> I guess I haven't seen anyone around here spreading that around.


Around the all-star break, people still thought Oden would/could win the ROY and were tryna to argue based on production that he was the best rookie big.



> That doesn't really answer the question though, that just says, they did it so now we can do it. Not that that's wrong, but most of those were Portland fans who all left anyways, and is it not a little childish to play "I told you so," and rub it in their faces because they really hyped him up?


Maybe, but it's not like anything he's saying is factually incorrect though. And maybe it is childish, but bashing him for bringing up some legit concerns isnt going to make it stop. It would only make someone want to prove a point even more and propell them to bring up a bigger sample size to prove that point. That is pretty much what is happening here. Najee feels like he has defend his case, cause he's been bashed from what seems like bringing up actual, legit concerns or flaws about a player or his game. Oden is not off limits from ridicule, no more than Kwame Brown, or Darko, or Okafor, or KG, or Shaq, or any other player isn't off limits to ridicule.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Around the all-star break, people still thought Oden would/could win the ROY and were tryna to argue based on production that he was the best rookie big.


Exactly. It wasn't until Greg Oden missed a month with his kneecap injury that some people finally let go of the fact that he was not a Rookie of the Year candidate. Even then, some people still had problems letting it go that Brook Lopez was having a better rookie campaign.

Again, that's a classic example of some people being blinded by their Oden lovefest. He really wasn't in Derrick Rose's or O.J. Mayo's class (or Lopez's or Russell Westbrook's or Eric Gordon's, etc.), but some people held out hope until it was getting a bit much.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Exactly. It wasn't until Greg Oden missed a month with his kneecap injury that some people finally let go of the fact that he was not a Rookie of the Year candidate. Even then, some people still had problems letting it go that Brook Lopez was having a better rookie campaign.


who had the better season? brook lopez. who has proven to be the better player? greg oden. it really isn't all that difficult to see either. lopez had the better season because he didn't get hurt and stayed out of foul trouble. oden is the better player because he was more productive when he was on the court and did more to help make his team successful.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> who had the better season? brook lopez. who has proven to be the better player? greg oden. it really isn't all that difficult to see either. lopez had the better season because he didn't get hurt and stayed out of foul trouble. oden is the better player because he was more productive when he was on the court *and did more to help make his team successful.*


Did he? Or did he just happen to be on the better team??


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Did he? Or did he just happen to be on the better team??


that is unrelated to my statement. oden is on a better team. he has better teammates.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> who had the better season? brook lopez. who has proven to be the better player? greg oden. it really isn't all that difficult to see either. lopez had the better season because he didn't get hurt and stayed out of foul trouble. oden is the better player because he was more productive when he was on the court and did more to help make his team successful.


How does Greg Oden prove to be the better player when he is behind Joel Pryzbilla in the rotation? In order for your comment to make sense, you also would have to say Pryzbilla is better than Brook Lopez.

You are the perfect example of the Oden zealot I'm talking about -- Oden is not the better player because he can't beat out a career backup center type and when he plays he fouls at an extraordinary high rate. Anyone can watch a game and see how Oden labors up and down the floor, how he struggles on offense and defense.

Show us how Oden is better than Lopez, with something that is not one of your ridiculous roundabout statements.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> that is unrelated to my statement. oden is on a better team. he has better teammates.


So how did Greg Oden make his team more successful? From where I'm sitting, Portland was successful almost in spite of having Oden.

What you saw in Game 2 is more typical of what Portland got from Oden this year. Only an idiot would take that over what Brook Lopez typically put up this season.


----------



## Prolific Scorer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

[email protected] Oden showing any "flashes" of being better than Brook Lopez now, or in the future.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I totally agree, Blue Magic. Greg Oden has a lot of work to do on his game. Most people projected him to be an impact player -- maybe not as overzealous as some people were on this board -- but to say the party line was sitting behind Joel Przybilla and drawing fouls at ridiculous rates is lying.


You keep talking about the "bar" that we all have set for Greg Oden, and this falls in with that line of thinking. The bar WAS a lot higher for the kid in his original rookie season. You can't hold it against people, myself included, for lowering the bar after he underwent _microfracture knee surgery_. That's a career changing surgery. Some guys can never get back fully from that type of procedure, so I don't think it's wrong of people to lower the bar a little for him. For me, at the very least, the end goal hasn't changed. I'm still a believer in the kid, but to assume that after a major surgery in the very beginning stages of his career that there won't have to be some sort of progression is foolish.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden got hosed on calls last night. That's all I gotta say about that.


----------



## bootstrenf

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GregOden said:


> You keep talking about the "bar" that we all have set for Greg Oden, and this falls in with that line of thinking. The bar WAS a lot higher for the kid in his original rookie season. You can't hold it against people, myself included, for lowering the bar after he underwent _microfracture knee surgery_. That's a career changing surgery. Some guys can never get back fully from that type of procedure, so *I don't think it's wrong of people to lower the bar a little for him*. For me, at the very least, the end goal hasn't changed. I'm still a believer in the kid, but to assume that after a major surgery in the very beginning stages of his career that there won't have to be some sort of progression is foolish.



the bar hasn't been lowered just a little.....it went from dwight howard to tyson chandler.....lol.....


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GregOden said:


> You keep talking about the "bar" that we all have set for Greg Oden, and this falls in with that line of thinking. The bar WAS a lot higher for the kid in his original rookie season. You can't hold it against people, myself included, for lowering the bar after he underwent _microfracture knee surgery_.


Here is the problem, for starters: You and others didn't lower the bar after Greg Oden's microfracture surgery. In fact, the initial conversations I recall with you specifically started with you running your mouth just before the start of the season. 

Anyone who challenged your or the other zealots' notion that Oden would be some top-level player right out of the box was met with a flame war. I recall you and others were running your mouths on how you would take the Blazers' talent with Oden over the Lakers' talent now. Hell, if anything you raised your bar.

You now want to hold the microfracture surgery as an excuse, never mind that Oden had the surgery nearly two years ago. Again, that points to health issues:

1.) Oden needing that surgery despite having little mileage on his legs.

2.) His apparent issue with a slow recovery from such injuries.

My goodness, Amare Stoudemire didn't take two years to recover from his surgery. Jason Kidd didn't have that problem, either. And these guys had the surgery before Oden and in Kidd's case it was during the time when it really was called a career-killer.

You can cite people like Chris Webber, Penny Hardaway and Allan Houston, but those guys (like Kidd and Stoudemire) were more full-court players and their careers were near the end of their primes when they had the surgery (not to mention Penny had recurring injuries for years). Oden wasn't even drinking age when he had the surgery!

You surely are not going to tell me the bar has been lowered to the point where Oden can't beat out Joel Przybilla for a starting position. The guy goes from being compared with Dwight Howard, Yao Ming or a prime Shaquille O'Neal, Bill Russell and David Robinson to fouling out in 11 minutes of decidedly poor play -- and now you want a mulligan?!?

Seriously, just eat your crow like a man.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



bootstrenf said:


> the bar hasn't been lowered just a little.....it went from dwight howard to tyson chandler.....lol.....


Hell, that bar went from Shaq/Bill Russell to beneath Joel Przybilla's jock strap real quickly.


----------



## Dark Fact

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Greg hasn't lived up to expectations, but that's partly because expectations were so unrealistic. And unfortunately he seems to have a frail psyche that is easily affected. But that said, I really don't understand why people want to tear him down. Considering he's a rookie coming back from knee surgery, I'd say he had a solid year. It's sad to me that a lot of the people rooting for him to fail are Orlando fans; Greg having success won't take away from how amazing Dwight is. I don't understand why an entire fan base has to feel so threatened by a rookie, when their own 7 foot monster is tearing it up.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> How does Greg Oden prove to be the better player when he is behind Joel Pryzbilla in the rotation? In order for your comment to make sense, you also would have to say Pryzbilla is better than Brook Lopez.
> 
> You are the perfect example of the Oden zealot I'm talking about -- Oden is not the better player because he can't beat out a career backup center type and when he plays he fouls at an extraordinary high rate. Anyone can watch a game and see how Oden labors up and down the floor, how he struggles on offense and defense.
> 
> Show us how Oden is better than Lopez, with something that is not one of your ridiculous roundabout statements.


oden is better than joel, so it isn't necessary for joel to be better than brook lopez for oden to be better than brook lopez.

you can say that oden can't beat out joel if you want. the fact is that oden was starting until his bone chip. coming off that injury, they started out with oden off the bench with the intention of moving him back to the starting lineup. him coming off the bench worked well and the team was successful, so they changed their plans and stuck with it. you repeating over and over that he's been beaten out by joel really doesn't tell anything about what actually happened in the situation.

as for how oden is better than lopez? well he has a better per, he is a better rebounder, and he is a better scorer. that generally indicates a better player to me.


----------



## Ras

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Seriously, just eat your crow like a man.


Before I reply to anything else, I want to mention that this is the problem I had with the thread. It wasn't the topic of the thread itself, it was the "I told you so, I'm right," intent. It's quite immature to go out of your way to rub it in others faces. Take your "victory," "like a man."


----------



## bootstrenf

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> oden is better than joel, so it isn't necessary for joel to be better than brook lopez for oden to be better than brook lopez.
> 
> you can say that oden can't beat out joel if you want. the fact is that oden was starting until his bone chip. coming off that injury, they started out with oden off the bench with the intention of moving him back to the starting lineup. *him coming off the bench worked well and the team was successful, so they changed their plans and stuck with it*. you repeating over and over that he's been beaten out by joel really doesn't tell anything about what actually happened in the situation.
> 
> as for how oden is better than lopez? well he has a better per, he is a better rebounder, and he is a better scorer. that generally indicates a better player to me.



this is a really interesting statement......doesn't the fact that the blazers are better with joel as the starter mean something???

i'm not saying that joel will always be better than oden, but at the present he is......


----------



## HKF

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I let this thread die days ago. Just put Najee on ignore and keep it moving. Why are you still replying to him?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



bootstrenf said:


> this is a really interesting statement......doesn't the fact that the blazers are better with joel as the starter mean something???
> 
> i'm not saying that joel will always be better than oden, but at the present he is......


it means that the blazers weren't really using oden on offense anyway early in the game when he was starting so they basically just had him on the court at risk of picking up fouls but not doing anything that joel couldn't already do.

bringing oden in off the bench 6 or 8 minutes into the first quarter, oden becomes used more in the offense(which helps get the rest of his game going) and he gets more minutes with rudy who has been the best guy on the team at finding oden when he's open. and it means he doesn't really have to worry about fouls as much. two quick fouls in the first few minutes and he has to sit. two fouls at the end of the first or start of the second quarter and he can just play through it.

and yes, oden is better than joel right now.


----------



## Basel

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> oden is better than joel, so it isn't necessary for joel to be better than brook lopez for oden to be better than brook lopez.
> 
> you can say that oden can't beat out joel if you want. the fact is that oden was starting until his bone chip. coming off that injury, they started out with oden off the bench with the intention of moving him back to the starting lineup. him coming off the bench worked well and the team was successful, so they changed their plans and stuck with it. you repeating over and over that he's been beaten out by joel really doesn't tell anything about what actually happened in the situation.
> 
> *as for how oden is better than lopez? well he has a better per, he is a better rebounder, and he is a better scorer. that generally indicates a better player to me.*


Oden: 8.9 PPG
Lopez: 13.0 PPG

Oden: 7.0 RPG
Lopez: 8.1 RPG

You're right about the PER, though. Oden's is slightly higher.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dark Fact said:


> Greg hasn't lived up to expectations, but that's partly because *expectations were so unrealistic.*


No kidding? I was one of the few trying to say this a long time ago, but people didn't want to hear it back then.... Now they see exactly what me and others were warning about.



> And unfortunately he seems to have a frail psyche that is easily affected. But that said, I really don't understand why people want to tear him down.


I dont think anyone WANTS to tear him down. He seems like a good guy, but the fact remains that did/does have some legit concerns/faults/habbits that people noticed. For whatever reason, people seem to think that critiquing Oden's game objectively is somehow rooting for him to fail. It's not. The kid has faults just like anybody else, idk why soo many people get offended when they're brought up as if it's a personal attack. 



> Considering he's a rookie coming back from knee surgery, I'd say he had a solid year. It's sad to me that a lot of the people rooting for him to fail are Orlando fans; Greg having success won't take away from how amazing Dwight is. I don't understand why an entire fan base has to feel so threatened by a rookie, when their own 7 foot monster is tearing it up.


Wow, c'mon man... Do you really think I'm rooting for Oden to fail because he will threaten Dwight? :lol: That is halarious. 

I've said before that I would love Dwight to have a nice rival with Oden and Bynum both. It would only strengthen Dwight's legend to have as many good C's in the league as possible. People already try to downplay his impact, because they say he plays in a weak big man era. Oden developing would only help, Byum developing would only help, so no that's not it. 

It's that i'm not one to sugar coat what I see. I watched Oden a good bit in College, and then in Summer League before I ever even made comments about him on here questing his hype. It wasn't me making stuff up, to protect Dwight. I'm not TMacYaoKobe1. I'm not _that_ guy. Go back and show me something i've ever said about Oden wasn't accurate? If you can do that, then you can call me a hater. Hell, I hope Oden becomes great, but that does take away from the flaws that i've pointed out in him for awhile now. It was gonna take time for him to get where people wanted him to be. That was my only thing. He wasn't gonna be this perfect 'Lebron James of big men' from day 1, like the hype machine was pushing him as. Was i wrong?


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Ras said:


> Before I reply to anything else, I want to mention that this is the problem I had with the thread. It wasn't the topic of the thread itself, it was the "I told you so, I'm right," intent. It's quite immature to go out of your way to rub it in others faces. Take your "victory," "like a man."


The thread wasn't made to say 'I told you so, Im right'... There was an ongoing discussion in another thread, which was _instructed_ to be moved into it's own separate thread(because for whatever reason it is such a sensitive and hotly debated issue). 

You complain about the thread, and thread length, but asking the same questions repeatedly is responsible for possibly half of the pages in this thread...


----------



## Basel

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

This thread has pretty much run its course, don't you all think?

Honestly, what more can be said? It's been the same argument for just about all 330+ replies.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Pretty much


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



bootstrenf said:


> the bar hasn't been lowered just a little.....it went from dwight howard to tyson chandler.....lol.....


I don't feel like multi-quoting, so this goes to Najee as well.

If you read what I said, I said the _end goal_ hasn't changed. I still believe Greg Oden has the physical tools, supposing he gets into the right shape and avoids injury, to be an upper echelon player. 

However, I wasn't expecting 20/10/2 his rookie season. Coming into his rookie season I expected him to be one of the better defensive centers in the league, and a good rebounder for the most part. Hence the comparison to Tyson Chandler. I am not going to sit and lie and say he hasn't lived up to everything I thought he would be (the injuries, not coming back in the right kind of shape), but to be honest I'm not very worried about it. He's what, 21 years old? He's in a great all-around team environment, and because of that he isn't forced to be their savior. He'll eventually stop being as foul prone, which is something typical for young big men. Once he starts building up some experience, he'll learn the nuances of NBA basketball and be able to stay in longer. You can't say he hasn't been productive while playing, the main knock is that he can't stay in, which is a valid criticism. But I have to imagine he'll get past that. 

He had a solid rookie season, all things considered. One that I'm happy with as a Greg Oden fan.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> oden is better than joel, so it isn't necessary for joel to be better than brook lopez for oden to be better than brook lopez.
> 
> you can say that oden can't beat out joel if you want. the fact is that oden was starting until his bone chip. coming off that injury, they started out with oden off the bench with the intention of moving him back to the starting lineup. him coming off the bench worked well and the team was successful, so they changed their plans and stuck with it. you repeating over and over that he's been beaten out by joel really doesn't tell anything about what actually happened in the situation.
> 
> as for how oden is better than lopez? well he has a better per, he is a better rebounder, and he is a better scorer. that generally indicates a better player to me.


Laughable. Greg isn't better than Lopez. Greg's slightly higher PER is 100% meaningless. He can't stay on the floor for more than 15 minutes without fouling out. Brook Lopez's numbers are better across the board. Greg Oden has been nothing more than an enormous disappointment. No amount of number-skewing is going to change that.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dark Fact said:


> Greg hasn't lived up to expectations, but that's partly because expectations were so unrealistic.


That depends on who you ask, IMO. The unrealistic expectations were made by those who made the projections that Greg Oden was going to be a high-impact to dominant player right out of the gate. I always found it perplexing because Oden was not a dominant player in his one year at Ohio State, IMO.

I could understand if Oden had freshman season comparable to Kevin Durant's, Michael Beasley's or Carmelo Anthony's one season, but what I have seen in Portland is very much a carryover from his one season in Ohio State.



Dark Fact said:


> And unfortunately he seems to have a frail psyche that is easily affected.


I don't believe it is as much of a frail psyche as much Oden simply isn't ready and nearly as good as some projected. Again, this was something you could see in college.

What is disappointing is that Oden seems to be so far off the mark. His foul problems, his lack of a consistent offensive game, his injury issues -- all these things were rationalized away by some as a case of a big man playing college players and some bad luck -- are still major issues, to the point where he can't even play prolonged minutes.



Dark Fact said:


> But that said, I really don't understand why people want to tear him down. Considering he's a rookie coming back from knee surgery, I'd say he had a solid year. It's sad to me that a lot of the people rooting for him to fail are Orlando fans; Greg having success won't take away from how amazing Dwight is. I don't understand why an entire fan base has to feel so threatened by a rookie, when their own 7 foot monster is tearing it up.


1.) I'm actually a PORTLAND fan.

2.) Like Blue Magic said, the issue is that there seems to be this rabid group of Oden zealots who seem to translate anything not effusive about Oden as an attack. And it would be one thing if it was a case of Oden being a top-level producer who was unfairly criticized or hated upon, but the vitrol started before Oden played one minute in the NBA.

I honestly don't see why some people on this site and some other areas are so emotionally vested in Oden to that degree -- I've seen it with other top players who have some rabid fans, but not to the degree where some people act like talking about Oden is sacriligious. I've seen more Portland fans get riled up about defending Oden than I ever heard them get riled up over defending Clyde Drexler, Bill Walton or Maurice Lucas.

And you can't say Oden had a solid year, given that he was the No. 1 overall pick. If Oden was half as good as advertised he easily would be the starting center. Instead, it's not unusual to see him picking up five fouls in 10 minutes' worth of action.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Laughable. Greg isn't better than Lopez. Greg's slightly higher PER is 100% meaningless. He can't stay on the floor for more than 15 minutes without fouling out. Brook Lopez's numbers are better across the board. Greg Oden has been nothing more than an enormous disappointment. No amount of number-skewing is going to change that.


A PER is an advanced statistic, like all other statistics, that tells an incomplete story about a player -- especially when it is used as out of context as the way rocketeer butchers it.

Here is an example:

Greg Oden, 2008-09 - 18.1
LeBron James, 2003-04 - 18.3
Dwayne Wade, 2003-04 - 17.6
Carmelo Anthony, 2003-04 - 17.6

One of the problems with PER is that it does factor in turnovers, so players like LeBron, D-Wade and Carmelo can be punished for having high turnover rates (like most young perimeter players who have the ball in their hands a lot). It's also not going to factor in that James and Anthony are perimeter players who were their team's primary offensive weapons (while shooting low percentages) while Oden basically stayed in the paint and largely scored from within five feet (thus the high field goal percentage).

Based solely on that number it looks like Oden was as good as the '03-'04 guys -- which is obviously ridiculous when you look at their production numbers. LeBron, D-Wade and Carmelo were young players who had excellent rookie campaigns (with Wade and 'Melo leading their teams to the playoffs) while Oden chronically is in foul trouble and cannot supplant Joel Przybilla as the starting center.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Basel said:


> Oden: *59.9 TS%*
> Lopez: *56.8 TS%*
> 
> Oden:* 20.0 REB-r*
> Lopez: *15.8 REB-r*
> 
> You're right about the PER, though. Oden's is slightly higher.


Fixed that for you.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> Fixed that for you.


*FG attempts:*
Lopez: 844
Oden: 351

Lopez has made more FG's this year than Oden has even attempted. Try again.


----------



## Basel

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> Fixed that for you.


No you didn't.

I still believe Lopez is the better scorer/rebounder.

I don't care about TS% or REB-r or any other crazy *** stats all of you guys throw out there.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Basel said:


> Oden: 8.9 PPG
> Lopez: 13.0 PPG
> 
> Oden: 7.0 RPG
> Lopez: 8.1 RPG
> 
> You're right about the PER, though. Oden's is slightly higher.


because those numbers right there tell you would the better scorer and better rebounder is?



Basel said:


> No you didn't.
> 
> I still believe Lopez is the better scorer/rebounder.
> 
> I don't care about TS% or REB-r or any other crazy *** stats all of you guys throw out there.


come on. you're better than that. oden is a more efficient scorer even though he draws more attention from the defense and is assisted on less of his baskets. in my mind, that makes him a better scorer. points per game doesn't always tell the story. as far as rebounding, you can't seriously think that 1 rebound per game more makes lopez the better rebounder when the blazers play at a slower pace and oden plays something like 8 less minutes per game. like i said, you're better than that.



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Laughable. Greg isn't better than Lopez. Greg's slightly higher PER is 100% meaningless. He can't stay on the floor for more than 15 minutes without fouling out. Brook Lopez's numbers are better across the board. Greg Oden has been nothing more than an enormous disappointment. No amount of number-skewing is going to change that.


of course. anything that oden is better at is meaningless or being skewed by someone biased to make it seem like he's better than he is. and how he's done relative to his expectations are entirely relevant to how he's done relative to brook lopez. right... 



Blue Magic said:


> *FG attempts:*
> Lopez: 844
> Oden: 351
> 
> Lopez has made more FG's this year than Oden has even attempted. Try again.


of course lopez has played twice as many minutes as oden. lopez played 21 more games than oden which plays a large part in him playing much more minutes and having a lot more field goal attempts. that plays a huge part in lopez having the better season. but it doesn't mean that lopez is the better player. per supports oden being a more productive player when he's on the floor than lopez. so do the rebounding numbers as well as the scoring numbers. those would indicate that oden is the better player.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I disagree. I would take Lopez over Oden as a scorer. I would take Oden over Lopez as a rebounder.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

To Basel and Blue Magic, I wasn't trying to support nor deny roketeers statement. I was providing better stats than Basel had given to convey what roketeer was trying to say.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> I disagree. I would take Lopez over Oden as a scorer. I would take Oden over Lopez as a rebounder.


i'd take lopez over oden as a shooter. but as a guy trying to create his own scoring opportunity, i definitely take oden. he's more efficient even though he draws more attention and is assisted on less of his baskets(i realize that's just repeating myself).


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

The problem is you refuse to admit is that Greg Oden is not good enough to keep himself on the floor because of his constant foul problems, rocketeer. For some reason, you seem to think that Oden's history of foul problems has no bearing on his production.

In fact, Oden's output is greatly marred by his foul problems, as seen in Game 2. You're far more likely to see Oden produce games where he fouls out in only a few minutes, barely scores and grabs a few rebounds than Brook Lopez (especially after December, when Lopez's production became more consistent).

The other problem people have with your arguments is that you seem to ignore observational study and other factors in making your decision. Oden is a lesser skilled player than Lopez, does little else on the offensive end besides planting in the post and scoring within a few feet and shows an inconsistent (and at times, nonexistent) feel for the game. 

And maybe I need to look at those Portland games again, because I'm not seeing this "Oden draws more defensive attention" argument. It's not like the guy is Shaquille O'Neal or Dwight Howard, where teams game-plan to stop him; he tends to have more players around him because he's practically under the basket and teams are following the ball (he scores on a lot of putbacks and, again, is planted in the paint most of the time).

Whatever marginal advantage Oden has in PER is negated by his offensive shortcomings and persistent foul problems, which hamper his production to almost staggering levels.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The problem is you refuse to admit is that Greg Oden is not good enough to keep himself on the floor because of his constant foul problems, rocketeer. For some reason, you seem to think that Oden's history of foul problems has no bearing on his production.


that isn't true at all though. i've acknowledged oden's foul problems numerous times. his foul problems are the exact thing that has held him back from living up to reasonable expectations of him this season. his foul problems are what they are and they keep him from being on the court for long periods of time, however his foul problems don't make him less effective in the minutes that he does spend on the court.



Najee said:


> The other problem people have with your arguments is that you seem to ignore observational study and other factors in making your decision. Oden is a lesser skilled player than Lopez, does little else on the offensive end besides planting in the post and scoring within a few feet and shows an inconsistent (and at times, nonexistent) feel for the game. Whatever marginal difference Oden has in PER is negated by his offensive shortcomings and persistent foul problems, which hamper his production to almost staggering levels.


no, i don't ignore observational study at all. i observe things like oden drawing more attention from defenses than lopez and lopez scoring most of his points off of opportunities created by his teammates while oden scores more of his points on opportunities he creates himself(which then be backed up statistically as well). not to mention that oden's offensive shortcomings are vastly overstated and if people took the time to actually watch and evaluate the games themselves instead of just taking people who work for espn's word for everything, maybe they would notice that(remember how long it took them to stop pretending that lebron was unclutch and played no defense or how long they pretended yao was "soft" and did nothing but get dunked on?). it's funny when people throw out words like "polished" and "skilled" when discussing two players as if those are really relevant to the discussion of who the better player is. i'm sure you would say that kobe is more skilled than lebron. but is kobe better than lebron? nope.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> that isn't true at all though. i've acknowledged oden's foul problems numerous times. his foul problems are the exact thing that has held him back from living up to reasonable expectations of him this season. his foul problems are what they are and they keep him from being on the court for long periods of time, however his foul problems don't make him less effective in the minutes that he does spend on the court.


Rocketeer, I beg to differ. The foul problems have been with Greg Oden since he was at Ohio State, so this is not a new discussion. 

The aspect you're not seeing is that it is incredibly hard for a coach to plan around a player who literally cannot keep himself on the floor. What you saw in Game 2 vs. Houston is not that uncommon with Oden -- he fouled out in 11 minutes, scoring 4 points on 1-for-4 shooting and grabbing 4 rebounds. That's the reason Joel Przybilla is starting now and Oden is not, IMO.

A real-life analogy to Oden is a fairly talented employee who takes a lot of sick time off and chronically is late to work. Yeah, when she is on she can get the job done -- the major problem is getting her to come to work. So just like the employee, Oden is less effective because you can't rely on him. It's not an aside, it's a MAJOR factor that downgrades Oden's evaluation significantly.

I honestly cannot think of another player in NBA history whose foul problems are such a major hinderance to the point where he cannot produce effectively and consistently like Oden. Oden literally cannot produce a lot of games because of his foul problems -- and again, this is one of the many warts I see in his game.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> no, i don't ignore observational study at all. i observe things like oden drawing more attention from defenses than lopez and lopez scoring most of his points off of opportunities created by his teammates while oden scores more of his points on opportunities he creates himself(which then be backed up statistically as well). not to mention that oden's offensive shortcomings are vastly overstated and if people took the time to actually watch and evaluate the games themselves instead of just taking people who work for espn's word for everything, maybe they would notice that(remember how long it took them to stop pretending that lebron was unclutch and played no defense or how long they pretended yao was "soft" and did nothing but get dunked on?).


I have NBA League Pass, and have seen Greg Oden play extensively this season -- I have no idea where you're getting this idea that Oden is more advanced offensively than you're trying to represent. Look at his box scores in his previous games and the game footage, and a large amount of his points come off dunks and offensive putbacks. He now has shown that he is working on a hook shot, but it looks mechanical at times and still is not what I would call a go-to move.

Again, this "drawing more attention on the offensive end" argument is specious. Oden usually has the ball within a few feet from the basket -- of course teams collapse on him because that's where the ball is. It's not because he is some unstoppable offensive juggernaut. Every scouting report has a book on Oden, namely he's going to score from five feet in (largely on a dunk or an offensive rebound). Also, it's not exactly like we're talking about someone known for passing out of a double team. 

Let's not give the impression teams are game-planning on ways on stopping Oden, a la Shaquille O'Neal in his prime or Dwight Howard. In reality, Oden has far more in common with Tree Rollins in this and other aspects at this time.

P.S. I can't say whether people on this site are influenced by "SportsCenter," because more often than not Oden is not shown on the highlights -- largely because of his meager to nonexistent production in some games. I see Brandon Roy on far more "SportsCenter" highlights of Blazers games because he's consistently doing something. The last "SportsCenter" highlight I saw of Oden was the San Antonio game on 4/8, where the rim rejected his dunk.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I just wanted to bump this thread. 

Oden is playing like a beast during the preseason.


----------



## LionOfJudah

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



zagsfan20 said:


> I just wanted to bump this thread.
> 
> Oden is playing like a beast during the preseason.


Shhh.. Don't jinx him... Too many of ya'll get on his jock again he could get injured from all the extra weight being carried with the bandwagon of fans hanging from his man parts.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

There is not a lot of inbetween with Oden. If you could guarantee me he would play the next 10 seasons without any injuries (outside of minor 2-3 game injuries), I would put a substantial amount of money on him making atleast a couple all-star games. Problem is, like the thread implies, he has been made of glass thus far. 

I really hope he can stay healthy. He can be a seriously special player.


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

All I know is most any major leg/knee surgery is a two year recovery, and being a step slow leads to a lot of the cons we saw out of Oden last year. Slow to rotate, foul prone, not much of a vertical, sluggish post game...I think those things are going to disappear and we'll see the real Oden start his development.


----------



## Basel

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He's one of the couple Blazers that I actually want to see do well.


----------



## Gilgamesh

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Agreed. That is Oden's biggest problem when he is on the floor.

The man has to improve on that and that will come with more basketball IQ and when his body heals (and hopefully he decides to slim down and regains the quickness he had as a prospect).

Oden was an excusable disappointment last year because of his injuries and the Blazers being legit playoff contenders but I expect much more from him this year. At this rate, all that "greatness", "once in a decade player" potential scouts and people raved about including myself is making us all look stupid.



Najee said:


> The problem is you refuse to admit is that Greg Oden is not good enough to keep himself on the floor because of his constant foul problems, rocketeer. For some reason, you seem to think that Oden's history of foul problems has no bearing on his production.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



zagsfan20 said:


> I just wanted to bump this thread.
> 
> Oden is playing like a beast during the preseason.


bumps for preseason are totally unnecessary.


----------



## Adam

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dre™ said:


> All I know is most any major leg/knee surgery is a two year recovery, and being a step slow leads to a lot of the cons we saw out of Oden last year. Slow to rotate, foul prone, not much of a vertical, sluggish post game...I think those things are going to disappear and we'll see the real Oden start his development.


We definitely learned that any GM who gives him a contract that extends past 32 is a moron. Oden is going to be garbage once his athleticism goes.


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He's not "garbage" right now. At the very least he's an above average defender on the block and his shot block timing will be on 1000 at that point. He'll be useful as a rotation big. 

Tim Duncan is still a viable defender primarily because he knows how to alter shots and keep strong positioning, that has nothing to do with athleticism, that's timing, strength and experience, and Oden can be the same player..in effect he's that player right now.


----------



## Vuchato

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



The '93 Heat said:


> We definitely learned that any GM who gives him a contract that extends past 32 is a moron. Oden is going to be garbage once his athleticism goes.


he's already past 32


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dre™ said:


> He's not "garbage" right now. At the very least he's an above average defender on the block and his shot block timing will be on 1000 at that point. He'll be useful as a rotation big.
> 
> Tim Duncan is still a viable defender primarily because he knows how to alter shots and keep strong positioning, that has nothing to do with athleticism, that's timing, strength and experience, and Oden can be the same player..in effect he's that player right now.


You're comparing Oden to Duncan. Really?


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> You're comparing Oden to Duncan. Really?


I think that's a fair comparison. Oden is pretty much a more athletic version of Duncan. 








ok, now calm down, I was just kidding.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> I think that's a fair comparison. Oden is pretty much a more athletic version of Duncan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok, now calm down, I was just kidding.


I was so confused and angry until I read the second line.


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

:sarcasm:


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He's been impressive as far as preseason goes, but the key word is preseason.


----------



## jayk009

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It seems like everyone has finally stopped hyping him up. You know what that means...Greg Oden will have an allstar season this year...


----------



## SheriffKilla

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

if he can stay healthy and out of foul trouble he should give the blazer 14/15 and 11/12 plus 2 blocks as his per minute numbers suggest
Which is pretty damn good


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I remember that game against Florida where neither Noah or Horford could do a damn thing with Oden. Both those guys are productive NBA players now and I'm hoping Oden can get back to the point where he'd wash his hands with guys like that.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Sir Patchwork, I also remember the first time Ohio State and Florida played in the 2006-07 regular season and Greg Oden was clearly shut down. It merely proves nothing, especially considering Florida won both times vs. Ohio State.

I'm sorry, but the Oden so far this season is the same Oden I saw in Ohio State and this past season. I really don't see where some people see the comparison to great centers who were way more productive than Oden has been. I said it then and will say it now, in that Oden reminds me far more of Tree Rollins than people like Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neal, etc.


----------



## Adam

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

What about my revelation last night that his head looks like a black gnocchi with hair? Does this help settle anything?


----------



## LA68

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

What does a bad knee have to do with practicing free throws or five foot shots ??

He seems to me to be a typical hyped athlete who was given everything and never does anything on his own. Just enough to get in the league but, no more. 

Don't flame but, he reminds me of Kwame Brown. Good at just standing there but, never improves his game on his own.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



LA68 said:


> What does a bad knee have to do with practicing free throws or five foot shots ??
> 
> He seems to me to be a typical hyped athlete who was given everything and never does anything on his own. Just enough to get in the league but, no more.
> 
> Don't flame but, he reminds me of Kwame Brown. Good at just standing there but, never improves his game on his own.


yep. he's a lot like kwame brown. it doesn't matter that oden's rookie year which occur after having microfracture and sitting out a year was better than any year of kwame's career, they're still the same.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Sir Patchwork, I also remember the first time Ohio State and Florida played in the 2006-07 regular season and Greg Oden was clearly shut down. It merely proves nothing, especially considering Florida won both times vs. Ohio State.
> 
> I'm sorry, but the Oden so far this season is the same Oden I saw in Ohio State and this past season. I really don't see where some people see the comparison to great centers who were way more productive than Oden has been. I said it then and will say it now, in that Oden reminds me far more of Tree Rollins than people like Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neal, etc.


Didn't he have a broken wrist in that first game?


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

People love to write the guy off so quickly. Its kinda pathetic, but hey, whatever floats your boat.


----------



## aussiestatman

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

i believe oden may take another season or two to fulfil his potential but after that he will be in competition with dwight as the standout big of the league and if portland can continue to build such a dominant team and win a few titles, oden could be rated top ten all time!
all time i'd rate o'neal, wilt and bill russell as the only centres in the top 10. Oden could join them!


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



zagsfan20 said:


> People love to write the guy off so quickly. Its kinda pathetic, but hey, whatever floats your boat.


Not as much as writing him off as much as I never found Greg Oden to be impressive at all. That's in high school, college and the NBA. I've never seen him do anything with any consistency to warrant these ridiculous comparisons with some of the greatest centers in NBA history.

I doubt it's a case of people writing Oden off so quickly, because he's had three-plus years to quiet his critics. Instead, he's validating their concerns about his injury history, his lack of a game, his lack of energy, etc. 

As a Blazers fan, I would like to be wrong and see him become this player you and others believe he has the ability to be. But I had doubts about Oden when he was at Ohio State and he's lived up to every doubt I've had so far.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



LA68 said:


> What does a bad knee have to do with practicing free throws or five foot shots ??
> 
> He seems to me to be a typical hyped athlete who was given everything and never does anything on his own. Just enough to get in the league but, no more.
> 
> Don't flame but, he reminds me of Kwame Brown. Good at just standing there but, never improves his game on his own.


That's the thing that I notice about Greg Oden as well -- he really seems to have a low-running motor, and that's something I noticed at Ohio State. Outside of a dunk where he's at the rim, I don't see him flashing any enthusiasm or his athleticism. He always looked lethargic and at times disinterested. In addition, he still has little to any offensive skill.


----------



## aussiestatman

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> *FG attempts:*
> Lopez: 844
> Oden: 351
> 
> Lopez has made more FG's this year than Oden has even attempted. Try again.



i love how lopez and oden are compared. there is daylight between them just now, but i think a year or two will see the pendulum swing the opposite way. it will be a joke at the end of their careers, i'm sure!


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Najee, answer the question, didn't he have a broken wrist that game he was "shut down"?


----------



## [email protected]

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If Oden keeps it up, he'll be out of the league in 2 years. He's been injury prone since high school and it has continued to this day. It's not his fault as it's just bad luck and being weak due to injuries, but if he can't remain healthy, he'll be out of the league shortly.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



[email protected] said:


> If Oden keeps it up, he'll be out of the league in 2 years. He's been injury prone since high school and it has continued to this day. It's not his fault as it's just bad luck and being weak due to injuries, but if he can't remain healthy, he'll be out of the league shortly.


if oden produces exactly as he has produced thus far in his career, he'll have a 15 year career being a very solid big man who is a top 10 rebounder in the league every year.


----------



## [email protected]

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> if oden produces exactly as he has produced thus far in his career, he'll have a 15 year career being a very solid big man who is a top 10 rebounder in the league every year.



That's assuming he's healthy. If he's not healthy, then he can't produce. He's proven to be an excellent defender and efficient scorer when healthy, but he struggles to get playing time because of his health.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



[email protected] said:


> If Oden keeps it up, he'll be out of the league in 2 years. He's been injury prone since high school and it has continued to this day. It's not his fault as it's just bad luck and being weak due to injuries, but if he can't remain healthy, he'll be out of the league shortly.


12pts and 10rbs last night means out of the league?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden or Bogut, wonder who will be considered the bigger disappointment when all is said and done?


----------



## [email protected]

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> 12pts and 10rbs last night means out of the league?



If he can't stay healthy, then yes.


----------



## Pimped Out

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

barring getting his legs amputated or contracting polio, Oden will not be out of the league in 2 years. No matter how injury riddled the next two years are, if a team thinks he can produce when he gets healthy, he'll still be around.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden is really starting to pick up his play, and Najee isn't anywhere to comment. No doubt he'll be back the next off game. The only thing anybody can take away from Greg Oden so far is that it's still too early to tell if he'll ever be the legend that some of the hype made him out to be, but he definitely wont be out of the league in a couple years; and he's certainly not a Kwame or an Olowakandi(sp?).

Oden is a rebounder on the level of Kevin Love and Dwight Howard, and a top defender at the center position. Anytime he's on the floor he seems to be productive one way or the other, and I don't think it's probable he'll average 4-5 fouls his whole career. So it's entirely in the realm of high possibility that he'll end up being at least a 15-10-2 guy.


----------



## vinsanity77

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

so who will be the top defender in his prime?

Dwight or Oden?


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden IMO He can anchor you whole defense, and make you have to change your whole gameplan. Howard is a good, but I've seen teams have success inside when they play the Magics.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> Oden is really starting to pick up his play, and Najee isn't anywhere to comment. No doubt he'll be back the next off game. The only thing anybody can take away from Greg Oden so far is that it's still too early to tell if he'll ever be the legend that some of the hype made him out to be, but he definitely Oden is a rebounder on the level of Kevin Love and Dwight Howard, and a top defender at the center position.


Pretty much, that would make Greg Oden what he's always been -- an offensively limited, foul prone player who can make a presence on defending and rebounding.

Basically, another Tree Rollins.

It's pretty sad when "starting to pick up his game" consists of back-to-back eight point games. Dude played in my area on Saturday (vs. Charlotte) and after seeing him upfront, I can't say I saw anything that was any different than what I've seen of him since high school. Limited offensively, can block some shots when the player is funneled to him, foul prone (6 fouls in 17 minutes), can grab rebounds in traffic.

The reality is that some of you have set the bar so low for Oden to be considered "great" that you're overlooking that his game vs. Charlotte is in line with what kind of player Oden has shown the bulk of his career. I've seen players with better overall production and effectiveness than Oden get blasted and even called busts on here but let Oden have an atypical standout game and the groupies go nuts.


----------



## Kidd

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I've seen players with better overall production and effectiveness than Oden get blasted and even called busts on here but let Oden have an atypical standout game and the groupies go nuts.


Andrew Bogut.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Oden or Bogut, wonder who will be considered the bigger disappointment when all is said and done?


I don't see how Andrew Bogut can be considered a disappointment, to tell the truth. He was a No. 1 overall selection, but I can't think of too many places where everyone from casual fans to NBA insiders was comparing him to all-time great centers. Bogut is pretty much what I thought he would be, namely an above-average player with some good skill who seems to play up to that level.

That was the thing with Greg Oden -- I never could see where people could make those comparisons. I could see that possibly, if all his major warts were addressed (limited offensive game, foul prone, history of injuries, apparent lack of motivation), but as a performer he's never shown any type of consistent excellence. 

And yet these people have set the bar so low that anything resembling a standout game brings up the "I told ya so!/The Oden era has started!" comments. It actually reminds me of the Jonathan Bender zealots that wanted to start a new era every time he started or made a play or had a good game.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

wow najee, incredible timing. oden fouls out for the first time this season and has probably his worst looking statline at a glance and you show up to comment. i'm so surprised.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Not to mention that small fact of Greg Oden actually playing in my area, rocketeer. Again, don't let facts get in your way.

I actually came on this site to see what people were saying about Brandon Jennings, but not surprising I find the Oden zealots repping his marginal play. This thread was high on this page (like the third highest) when I saw it this morning.

But then again, you all are some of the same zealots that were doing a "I told you so!" when Oden put up 15-5 against a 43-year-old center in a playoff game where his team lost by 27 points.

Only on this site is where Oden playing mop-up minutes in a blowout loss or racking up marginal numbers is as noteworthy as an NBA rookie putting up 55 points in one game.


----------



## Jakain

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

As long as Oden can't keep himself on the court he's going to be very overrated.


----------



## HKF

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Man Raymond Felton ran into Oden for him to get his sixth foul. He had nowhere to go and the refs gave him a gift whistle. The only way for Oden to stop picking up fouls is to stop actually trying to protect the rim. Seriously, that is pretty much all of his fouls. Guards jump into him and he gets called for a foul.


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dre™ said:


> Najee, answer the question, didn't he have a broken wrist that game he was "shut down"?


...


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

So what was Greg Oden's excuse since then, Dre? Maybe he has an _excuse du jour_ for his limited offensive game and his foul problems.


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Yeah whatever, I just wanted you to acknowledge that.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden with a PER of 21.5 so far this season (18th in the league). Averaging almost a double double (about 10/9), 2nd in the league in FG% and 2nd in the league in blocks. All in only 23 minutes. 

Dude is a big difference maker when he is on the court. He just needs to learn to control the fouls, which is going to be a huge obstacle for him. I think his offense has looked pretty good at times this year, but obviously Portland has so many options that they don't need to forcefeed him.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Not to mention that small fact of Greg Oden actually playing in my area, rocketeer. Again, don't let facts get in your way.
> 
> I actually came on this site to see what people were saying about Brandon Jennings, but not surprising I find the Oden zealots repping his marginal play. This thread was high on this page (like the third highest) when I saw it this morning.
> 
> But then again, you all are some of the same zealots that were doing a "I told you so!" when Oden put up 15-5 against a 43-year-old center in a playoff game where his team lost by 27 points.
> 
> Only on this site is where Oden playing mop-up minutes in a blowout loss or racking up marginal numbers is as noteworthy as an NBA rookie putting up 55 points in one game.


please show me these zealots. is it the guy pointing out that oden won't be out of the league in 2 years unless he contracts polio? or the guy who says that oden is very productive when he's on the floor and that it's unlikely he averages 4-5 fouls per game over the course of the year?

and there is a huge thread on brandon jennings(and rightfully so). not much at all is being said about oden, so i'm not sure where all this is coming from with you(except it just being your normal bull****).


----------



## Diable

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If Oden had been drafted by a team that needed him to produce the fans would be murdering him.The fact that he produces efficiently according to advanced metrics would just piss them off twice as much.I think I caught a lot of flak when I said that the Bobcats would be better off drafting Durant if they had won the lottery.I didn't realize just how right I would be.

I'm not saying Oden can't play,but people are just making excuses for him when they claim the refs are picking on him.It's the nba.Noone is afraid of him.They're going right at him and he's fouling them.It's pretty simple.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Diable said:


> If Oden had been drafted by a team that needed him to produce the fans would be murdering him.The fact that he produces efficiently according to advanced metrics would just piss them off twice as much.I think I caught a lot of flak when I said that the Bobcats would be better off drafting Durant if they had won the lottery.I didn't realize just how right I would be.
> 
> I'm not saying Oden can't play,but people are just making excuses for him when they claim the refs are picking on him.It's the nba.Noone is afraid of him.They're going right at him and he's fouling them.It's pretty simple.


The advanced metrics are being used because the fact is Greg Oden isn't good enough to play 36 minutes per game. He's foul prone with no offensive game beyond a dunk. He can rebound and defend once a player is funneled to him, but he picks up bushels of fouls and yet has shown an ability to adjust. 

Had he been picked by a team like the New York Knicks, the fans would have crucified him by now. You really don't need to make excuses and out-of-your-way rationalizations for Oden if he could produce on his own.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Diable said:


> If Oden had been drafted by a team that needed him to produce the fans would be murdering him.The fact that he produces efficiently according to advanced metrics would just piss them off twice as much.I think I caught a lot of flak when I said that the Bobcats would be better off drafting Durant if they had won the lottery.I didn't realize just how right I would be.
> 
> I'm not saying Oden can't play,but people are just making excuses for him when they claim the refs are picking on him.It's the nba.Noone is afraid of him.They're going right at him and he's fouling them.It's pretty simple.


if oden had been drafted by a team that needed him to produce, they probably would be focusing more on him on offense and actually running a good number of plays for him while also trying to protect him more on defense. that's the opposite of what's going on in portland.

and your advanced stats point makes no sense. they'd be more pissed off that he's very productive when he's on the court than they would be if he sucked when he played? how does that make sense?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> and your advanced stats point makes no sense. they'd be more pissed off that he's very productive when he's on the court than they would be if he sucked when he played? how does that make sense?


The point is that Greg Oden is not good enough to play more minutes thanks to his fouling, rocketeer. Advanced metrics are used to project his numbers if his minutes per game were increased by 50% and also are misrepresented to make him appear to be a better offensive player than what he has shown.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The point is that Greg Oden is not good enough to play more minutes thanks to his fouling, rocketeer. Advanced metrics are used to project his numbers if his minutes per game were increased by 50% and also are misrepresented to make him appear to be a better offensive player than what he has shown.


actually, your statement doesn't at all address the point i was responding to. but thanks anyway.

any luck finding the zealots you were speaking of?


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Hi!


----------



## Kidd

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Hello!


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Meanwhile Bynum is putting up 20/11/2/2/59% and 22.6 PER in 37 mpg along with 2.7 fouls a game. 

To be fair, Oden is indeed still beasting in the minutes he gets, he just isn't learning from his mistakes. Had a few boneheaded fouls even on a great night like tonight on Noah, and still averaging a staggering 4 a game in under 25 mpg. That shows his youth and inexperience more than anything I guess. But he needs to get over that mental block, and if (when) he does, he should really be a 16/13 player with great D at minimum.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

At least the Lopez comparisons can be put to bed. Guess who's the leading shot blocker in the league right now?

Anywhoo, Oden's coming along nicely. He still looks awkward, I wont be surprised if he battles with injuries throughout his career, but he's picked up some post moves. A solid defensive presence and should make Portland fans excited about their future. 

He did get baptized a few times by the Bulls guys though lol


----------



## Sliccat

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Except it took Bynum two years to figure it out as well.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Cap said:


> Meanwhile Bynum is putting up 20/11/2/2/59% and 22.6 PER in 37 mpg along with 2.7 fouls a game.
> 
> To be fair, Oden is indeed still beasting in the minutes he gets, he just isn't learning from his mistakes. Had a few boneheaded fouls even on a great night like tonight on Noah, and still averaging a staggering 4 a game in under 25 mpg. That shows his youth and inexperience more than anything I guess. But he needs to get over that mental block, and if (when) he does, he should really be a 16/13 player with great D at minimum.


To be even more fair, Bynum has played fewer than 90 games in the past 2 seasons combined. On top of that he's had arguably the greatest player in the history of the game coaching him one on one for the past 5 years and has been so terrible during his stint until the past two years of progress that his own teammate was calling for him to be traded. 

Oden needs some time to develop, as did Dwight, Yao, and all other centers in the NBA.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> At least the Lopez comparisons can be put to bed. Guess who's the leading shot blocker in the league right now?


what does this mean?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Earlier in the thread, they were both compared and some suggested Oden would have the better career. I think any fair observer can see that Lopez is easily ahead of the curve as compared to the young centers in the league. He's pretty much a 20/10 guy in his second season in the league.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Earlier in the thread, they were both compared and some suggested Oden would have the better career. I think any fair observer can see that Lopez is easily ahead of the curve as compared to the young centers in the league. He's pretty much a 20/10 guy in his second season in the league.


so you really think most fair observers would take brook lopez over guys like bynum and oden? 

he's a promising player who's doing well, but he's averaging 17 and 9 with a per of 17.7 on a winless team.


----------



## GNG

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Earlier in the thread, they were both compared and some suggested Oden would have the better career. I think any fair observer can see that Lopez is easily ahead of the curve as compared to the young centers in the league. He's pretty much a 20/10 guy in his second season in the league.


He's a 17/9 guy. You don't get to add blocks and assists to get him to 20/10.

And to top it off, his team is horrible, and he's all they have right now.


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> To be even more fair, Bynum has played fewer than 90 games in the past 2 seasons combined. On top of that he's had arguably the greatest player in the history of the game coaching him one on one for the past 5 years and has been so terrible during his stint until the past two years of progress that his own teammate was calling for him to be traded.
> 
> Oden needs some time to develop, as did Dwight, Yao, and all other centers in the NBA.


He's the same age as Oden, didn't play college ball, and played about a year and a half of high school ball. And the 90 games (it's actually 119 games including this year and the last postseason) argument doesn't even make sense, it actually strengthens my argument since we're comparing him to Greg Oden, who missed an entire season and so has played 77 games the past two years including this one.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Cinco de Mayo said:


> He's a 17/9 guy. You don't get to add blocks and assists to get him to 20/10.
> 
> And to top it off, his team is horrible, and he's all they have right now.


He's 17/9 because there's no one to take the pressure off him. Thought you missed the part where I said, he's 'pretty much' a a20/10 guy. When David Thorpe says Lopez is a 20/10 type guy, I am pretty sure he knows Lopez isnt putting up those exact numbers but he is capable of doing so. He gets doubled with impunity. Once Harris gets back to form, things should be easier for him. And its not like its far fetched to say he can put up 20/10. Bynum's getting more minutes and playing on a more superior team, of course he has more opportunities to succeed.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

but 17 and 9 on a winless team is not pretty much a 20/10 guy. you will always find guy putting up numbers on bad teams. i generally put greater stock in guys putting up numbers on teams winning than the other way around. lopez is a nice prospect who is playing pretty well. he's not "pretty much" a 20/10 guy. he's a 17 and 9 guy with a per just south of 18 on a winless team. 

the idea that lopez has somehow put the argument to rest with superior play is rather absurd. again, do you honestly think that a fair assessment would conclude lopez over bynum and oden?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Lol thats silly...so because he is on a winless team means his stats dont count...defenses dont play him harder, or his bruises dont matter? Thats pretty much the cop out argument used against players on bad teams. If he were out there trying to pad his stats that would make sense, but seriously do you honestly think if Lopez were on the Lakers or any contender, he wouldn't put up good stats? The guy would kill in a system where he's played one on one. 

I already argued your points on the Nets board, his PER is awful because he's not playing efficient basketball. He's not playing efficient basketball because he plays on a terrible team that happens to have been fielding 8 players since pretty much the season started. He's the only legitimate scoring threat on the team right now. His coach wants him shooting from outside because his teammates need him to open up the floor. When your big man is arguably your best shooter, thats BAD, REAL BAD! You guys want to make Bynum out to be this all word player, when anyone with good vision can see guy gets single coverage and is playing on a team stacked with offensive stars, talk less the best offensive player in the league.

Lopez in his second year in the league is putting up 17/9, forget the 20/10, since when was 17/9 with close to 3 blocks per game anything to scoff at. What the **** was Bynum doing in his second year in the league? Did I mention Bynum is older than Brook?

I guess this also applies to Oden since they are pretty much the future at that position. The Blazers probably win the title if you switch Lopez with Oden on that team.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

there are tons of examples of players going from good team to bad teams, and their raw numbers increase substantially. and the opposite phenomenon as well. it happens far more than the reverse happens. were ariza's stats inflated playing with the lakers?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Of all the examples you give, you give Ariza who is actually doing well on the Rockets team, and again if you've watched Lopez you'd know because of the way he plays and his skillset, he'd pretty much fit in well with any team.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Of all the examples you give, you give Ariza who is actually doing well on the Rockets team, and again if you've watched Lopez you'd know because of the way he plays and his skillset, he'd pretty much fit in well with any team.


how is ariza doing well when he doesn't have the benefit of playing with kobe and the lakers? 

i'm not saying lopez won't fit in with other teams. just don't jump to leaps about where he is when he's putting up 17 and 9 on a winless team.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Ariza is putting up 18.3ppg, 5.4rpg, 3.7apg and 2.1spg this year on a Rockets team that most will agree is playing above expectations, last year on the Lakers he put up 9ppg. Am I missing something here?. He's having a better year than he had last year with the Lakers, interestingly enough you mention his Lakers teammates being some type of benefit for him doing so well. You do realize thats my Bynum point right?

As for Lopez, I am making the jump based on his age. He's a very nice young prospect.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

you do seem to be missing something. you are arguing that bynum's numbers are inflated playing for the lakers. i'm pointing out that ariza's numbers were clearly NOT inflated playing for the lakers. follow?

you're not making the point that lopez is a nice young prospect. noone would argue against that. you're arguing that somehow lopez has separated himself from guys like bynum and oden. which is absurd. i mean, you actually said that lopez has "put to bed" the comparisons. how can you possibly put to bed comparisons on an 0-13 team?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He has put to bed the comparisons between him and Oden, were some were even making the argument that Oden was better than Lopez. You just took it upon yourself to think that statement also meant Bynum, which is fine. 

Hmmm as for Ariza and Bynum, I am pretty sure on the pecking order chart last here, their roles were quite different. Betcha the Lakers didnt know Ariza could be a feature type player


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

in what way has he put comparisons to bed? oden has a per of 22.8, a ts% of 68%, a reb rate of 20.5 and a block % of 7.2. on a team that's won a game. 

and you compared lopez to the young centers. i presumed you were including bynum.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Sigh* its almost like in your world, team mates dont exist. Again PER measures offensive efficiency no? TS% would also be higher due to playing a more efficient brand of basketball no? Oden gets a lot of open looks due to the players he plays with. When you put up this numbers just realize that Oden and Bynum play on vastly superior teams. Try to put Lopez in their shoes will ya.

As for rebound rate, pretty sure in this thread, I acknowledged Oden was the better rebounder. Last I checked Brook Lopez is putting up 2.7bpg, the current best in the league.


----------



## Plastic Man

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Ariza is also shooting a whooping 38% from the floor and hoisting up over 7 three pointers a game. The only thing he's doing better this year is scoring (and possibly passing)... because he's shooting the ball almost 10 more times per game than he did with the Lakers and doing it with a horrible efficiency. I do think he's benefited by playing for a stacked team and I don't think he's a better player this year. I also think Bynum wouldn't be putting up those numbers on the Nets.
.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Sigh* its almost like in your world, team mates dont exist. Again PER measures offensive efficiency no? TS% would also be higher due to playing a more efficient brand of basketball no? Oden gets a lot of open looks due to the players he plays with. When you put up this numbers just realize that Oden and Bynum play on vastly superior teams. Try to put Lopez in their shoes will ya.
> 
> As for rebound rate, pretty sure in this thread, I acknowledged Oden was the better rebounder. Last I checked Brook Lopez is putting up 2.7bpg, the current best in the league.


you are the one trying to argue that lopez has somehow obviously separated himself from oden. IF lopez was putting up better numbers on a better team, that would be a better place to be arguing from. but he's putting up numbers which are arguably better (or worse) on a winless team.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Plastic Man said:


> Ariza is also shooting a whooping 38% from the floor and hoisting up over 7 three pointers a game. The only thing he's doing better this year is scoring (and possibly passing)... because he's shooting the ball almost 10 more times per game than he did with the Lakers and doing it with a horrible efficiency. I do think he's benefited by playing for a stacked team and I don't think he's a better player this year. I also think Bynum wouldn't be putting up those numbers on the Nets.
> .


i don't want to suggest ariza is much better. just that his raw numbers are better. which is often the case when going to a worse team.


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> The Blazers probably win the title if you switch Lopez with Oden on that team.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Yeah so hard to imagine that a center that can actually put up points in the low post and create shots for himself would improve the team, thats in addition to being able to shoot from 20 feet out. Oh the thought of it...


----------



## GNG

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> He's 17/9 because there's no one to take the pressure off him. Thought you missed the part where I said, he's 'pretty much' a a20/10 guy. When David Thorpe says Lopez is a 20/10 type guy, I am pretty sure he knows Lopez isnt putting up those exact numbers but he is capable of doing so. He gets doubled with impunity. Once Harris gets back to form, things should be easier for him. And its not like its far fetched to say he can put up 20/10. Bynum's getting more minutes and playing on a more superior team, of course he has more opportunities to succeed.


Rudy Gay is "pretty much" an All-Star this season.


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Marc Gasol has been better than both Oden and Lopez so far this season.


----------



## cpawfan

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I'm a big fan of Brook's (check the sig), but swapping him with Oden doesn't improve the Blazers. Nate is still a below average coach who doesn't know how to utilize a big man.

As for Oden, I consider this his rookie season. The Blazers completely screwed up his rehab from microfracture and last season is useless as a long term evaluation tool. Yes he has a lot of flaws between his post moves and excessive fouling, however, he is also suffering from poor coaching and the lack of a quality distributor on the team.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Yeah so hard to imagine that a center that can actually put up points in the low post and create shots for himself would improve the team, thats in addition to being able to shoot from 20 feet out. Oh the thought of it...


he clearly would be the #1 option on the blazers. he scores 17 ppg 
on a winless team, after all. 

they might get some more offense (efficiency maybe not). and worse on the boards. and i'd argue worse defensively.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He'd make life easier for Roy and LMA, probably be the second option on that team.

I dont even think I can respond to that second paragraph of yours. Looks ridiculous to me.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> He'd make life easier for Roy and LMA, probably be the second option on that team.
> 
> I dont even think I can respond to that second paragraph of yours. Looks ridiculous to me.


which part specifically?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

All


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

so lopez is a better rebounder?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Nope, but Lopez is not a terrible rebounder per se, and he'll get more time on the court because he is not foul-prone and actually knows how to put the ball in the basket. He'll do fine rebounding wise.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Cap said:


> Meanwhile Bynum is putting up 20/11/2/2/59% and 22.6 PER in 37 mpg along with 2.7 fouls a game.


oden's 22.82 PER is good for 3rd in the league at the center position. bynum of course has been better thus far, but it's not like oden is far behind.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> At least the Lopez comparisons can be put to bed. Guess who's the leading shot blocker in the league right now?


just not in the direction you think.

yes, lopez leads to the league in blocked shots per game, but saying he's been a better shot blocker than oden this year would be just as wrong as saying he's been a better rebounder than oden this year.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Hypotheticals dont really make much sense in my world. He's either doing it or not. Projections are nice, but if he's not on the court to do it, it means SQUAT!


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Hypotheticals dont really make much sense in my world. He's either doing it or not. Projections are nice, but if he's not on the court to do it, it means SQUAT!


it's not about projections, it is about what he's doing on the court. oden is both a better shot blocker and rebounder than lopez in his time on the court. that really can't be argued against though i'm sure you'll try.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Dont need to, the raw stats say differently. If I were wrong, Oden would be on NBA.com as the number one shot blocker in the league but we all know thats not the case.


----------



## cpawfan

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

HB, if you believe Brook would help the Blazers offense, you clearly haven't watched Nate's coaching.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Well interestingly enough happened to catch the Bulls-Blazers game last night. I see them trying to get the ball to Oden in the post, but unfortunately he cant do anything with it. I see them running pick and pop plays with LMA and I know Brook can shoot. So yaeh I find it hard to believe he wont have some type of impact on that team.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Dont need to, the raw stats say differently. If I were wrong, Oden would be on NBA.com as the number one shot blocker in the league but we all know thats not the case.


you stick with raw stats. rate stats are meaningless. efficiency is meaningless. raw stats rule.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

You arent very good at humor, considering I gave you adequate reason as to why efficiency benefits one guy and doesnt the other. You know I am right on that, but for some weird reason find it hard to admit that the caliber of their teammates affects their stats.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> You arent very good at humor, considering I gave you adequate reason as to why efficiency benefits one guy and doesnt the other. You know I am right on that, but for some weird reason find it hard to admit that the caliber of their teammates affects their stats.


it does. it generally inflates the raw stats you cling to, and it tends to inflate scoring efficiency stats. oden's rebound rate is dramatically better than lopez's, and leaves little discussion about who is better rebounding. block % is the better measure of shotblocking, and is not highly team dependent, although it is somewhat system dependent. oden's scoring efficiency is extremely high, and almost certainly not simply a function of his team. i have no doubt lopez would have a higher ts% on the blazers, but have little doubt it would be lower than oden's. but he's likely score a bit more overall. but again, pointing to raw stats as proof of anything is foolish.


----------



## GNG

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Hypotheticals dont really make much sense in my world. He's either doing it or not. Projections are nice, but if he's not on the court to do it, it means SQUAT!


This from the guy who a couple hours prior called Brook Lopez a 20/10 player when he's a 17/9 player. And then tried passing it off by saying Brook has the capability, even if he's not actually doing it.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Why would his TS% be lower than Oden's when he is a much better offensive player? Do you know how many gimmes Oden gets on a nightly basis? The guy is being spoon fed for most of his points.

I already mentioned Oden is the better rebounder, Lopez' game isn't based on athleticism, but simply by watching both players you know how they go about getting blocks is quite different. Which is why when you mentioned something about the Blazers defense being worse with Lopez, I didnt know what the heck you were talking about. You'd be surprised at how many blocks Lopez simply gets from playing one on one defense. The guy puts his length to great use. Oden is a jumper. Lopez has 35 blocks this season, Oden 30. Oden was widely known going into the draft as shot blocker, Lopez wasn't. I'd say Brook his doing well for himself no?


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> oden's 22.82 PER is good for 3rd in the league at the center position. bynum of course has been better thus far, but it's not like oden is far behind.


Oh I know, he just wasn't in the discussion years ago and I'm glad to see how far he's come. Plus he's actually playing starter minutes which Oden just can't seem to put together.


----------



## afobisme

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

man i wish PER didn't exist. it doesn't even tell half the story.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



afobisme said:


> man i wish PER didn't exist. it doesn't even tell half the story.


why would you want less information? whoever doesn't like per can look at the components of per.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Does Najee have his tail tucked between his legs?


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Why would his TS% be lower than Oden's when he is a much better offensive player? Do you know how many gimmes Oden gets on a nightly basis? The guy is being spoon fed for most of his points.
> 
> I already mentioned Oden is the better rebounder, Lopez' game isn't based on athleticism, but simply by watching both players you know how they go about getting blocks is quite different. Which is why when you mentioned something about the Blazers defense being worse with Lopez, I didnt know what the heck you were talking about. You'd be surprised at how many blocks Lopez simply gets from playing one on one defense. The guy puts his length to great use. Oden is a jumper. Lopez has 35 blocks this season, Oden 30. Oden was widely known going into the draft as shot blocker, Lopez wasn't. I'd say Brook his doing well for himself no?


For your information, Greg Oden actually has 37 blocks. So Oden has more blocks while playing 73 less minutes. Brook doing better than expected doesn't actually make him better.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Is Lopez really a better offensive player than Oden? Oden has really developed a couple nice post moves. He needs to be paid constant attention because of his finishing ability, and he shoots extremely efficiently. Plus you can't just hack him because he shoots 80% from the free throw line. 

Right now, Lopez is a more reliable player because he doesn't have the bad habits that Oden does, but Oden is better than Lopez on both ends when he is on the court. Offensively it's close, defensively it's not that close.


----------



## cpawfan

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Is Lopez really a better offensive player than Oden?


Yes



> Offensively it's close


No it isn't. It is a Dirk / Kenyon comparison


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Pretty sure a lot of people in this thread havent watched Brook Lopez play. 

Saying things like they are not close defensively is downright annoying. I mean yes Oden has a nice rebound rate but you do understand that rebounds and blocks are not the only aspects of defense. Brook Lopez plays good man to man D and is quite a good help defender, dont make Greg Oden out as some defensive juggernaut.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Man the amount of passes for sub-par performances Oden gets on this board is astonishing. Wake up people, he isn't what he was predicted to be.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Greg Oden's "sub-par performances" aren't because he's an ineffective player, he's just making rookie mistakes. And I know this might sound a little shocking, but he's only 16 games removed from actually being a rookie (a rookie coming off of microfracture knee surgery nonetheless). The time line for this kids progression changed as soon as he hurt that knee.

By the way, that's some pretty fantastic timing for such a snide remark OneBadLT. Oden just put up 24 points (7-8 from the field, 10-12 FT's), 12 boards, and 2 blocks in under 27 minutes.


----------



## Jayps15

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Pretty sure a lot of people in this thread havent watched Brook Lopez play.
> 
> Saying things like they are not close defensively is downright annoying. I mean yes Oden has a nice rebound rate but you do understand that rebounds and blocks are not the only aspects of defense. Brook Lopez plays good man to man D and is quite a good help defender, dont make Greg Oden out as some defensive juggernaut.


Yea, it's not like he's 2nd in the league in DRating, 5th in D Win Shares, has an opponent PER of 8.7 (making him +14.1 production by position). Add in taking a team that was middle of the pack last year in defensive efficiency, that loses it's best perimeter defender for the entire season, and now they're 2nd in the league in defensive efficiency and holding opponents to the lowest FG% in the league and Oden's pretty much been the defensive juggernaut of which you speak. If he gets the fouls under control enough to average 30mpg for the season and just keeps up what he's already been doing he's got a legit claim as a DPOY candidate.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

So what you are saying is that, Oden is such a defensive juggernaut he doesnt even need to play 30 MPG for his team to shut down their opponents?


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Lopze aside, Oden has really progressed from last year to this year and his impact on the court has been great this season. All of the statistics speak to his impact on the court and people hate on his offense, but every team in the league would love a big athletic 7 footer with good hands who will dunk anything around the hoop and hit his free throws at an 80% clip. 

He is 2nd to only Dwight Howard in PER among centers. He has been great on defense and although his offense isn't fluid, he is still valuable on that end of the court. 

He just needs to maintain and get the fouls under control and these comparisons will take care of themselves.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



cpawfan said:


> No it isn't. It is a Dirk / Kenyon comparison


come on.


----------



## Plastic Man

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Lopze aside, Oden has really progressed from last year to this year and his impact on the court has been great this season. All of the statistics speak to his impact on the court and people hate on his offense, but every team in the league would love a big athletic 7 footer with good hands who will dunk anything around the hoop and hit his free throws at an 80% clip.
> 
> He is 2nd to only Dwight Howard in PER among centers. He has been great on defense and although his offense isn't fluid, he is still valuable on that end of the court.
> 
> He just needs to maintain and get the fouls under control and these comparisons will take care of themselves.


Oden is coming along nicely in my opinion too, but using PER to compare him to other centers is a bit intellectually dishonest. Sure he has the 2nd highest rating among centers, but every other one in the top 10 plays from 6-12 minutes more per contest. When Oden holds up his PER while also playing 32-36 minutes per game (which he can't seem to do right now, at least not consistently) then the stat will hold more water. Right now all his PER says is that he's very efficient in the minutes he plays... whether or not he can do it with heavier minutes is yet to be seen and only then is it valid to compare him to the best centers in the league.


----------



## aussiestatman

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

next v new jersey is a test. he has only played them once for 2 points and 1 rebound.
oden doesn't seem to put 2 good games together, hope he does well this time!


----------



## Tom

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He's so rope, the call him mr. roper.


----------



## Prolific Scorer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Comparing Greg Oden to Brook Lopez offensively is like comparing Dikembe Mutombo to Tim Duncan.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Plastic Man said:


> Oden is coming along nicely in my opinion too, but using PER to compare him to other centers is a bit intellectually dishonest. Sure he has the 2nd highest rating among centers, but every other one in the top 10 plays from 6-12 minutes more per contest. When Oden holds up his PER while also playing 32-36 minutes per game (which he can't seem to do right now, at least not consistently) then the stat will hold more water. Right now all his PER says is that he's very efficient in the minutes he plays... whether or not he can do it with heavier minutes is yet to be seen and only then is it valid to compare him to the best centers in the league.


PER is a stat that equalizes minutes, so it should be a given. All I'm saying is that Oden has been really really good in the minutes he has played and he just has some bad habits that need to be corrected. I don't think the jump from 25 to 35 minutes is a big one, especially when you start the game and finish the game (meaning you're competing against the other teams best players). 

There is a lot of good young centers. I think the idea that Lopez has seperated himself from Gasol, Bynum, Oden or even Noah is silly. They're all good.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Prolific Scorer said:


> Comparing Greg Oden to Brook Lopez offensively is like comparing Dikembe Mutombo to Tim Duncan.


I would say it's more like comparing Dwight Howard to Chris Bosh. Bosh has more skills and is more fluid, but Dwight makes up his value in being a monster underneath the hoop with dunks and putbacks, and requiring constant attention.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Thing is I think Oden will end up having more post moves than Dwight. He's had some injury plagued seasons so his learning curve has been affected, Dwight on the other hand has been working with an NBA legend for years now and still cant do squat. Very disappointing. Lopez on the other hand, has not even had the opportunities to work with an NBA great, its scary how the post moves he is pulling off is simply from watching film. Bynum also had the luxury of working with Kareem.


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Thing is I think Oden will end up having more post moves than Dwight. He's had some injury plagued seasons so his learning curve has been affected, Dwight on the other hand has been working with an NBA legend for years now and still cant do squat. Very disappointing. Lopez on the other hand, has not even had the opportunities to work with an NBA great, its scary how the post moves he is pulling off is simply from watching film. Bynum also had the luxury of working with Kareem.


Ewing is a terrible big man coach. He didn't teach Yao squat, either.

The biggest mistake the Magic made was getting rid of Clifford Ray.


----------



## Tom

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If he wants to learn something he should be coached by Kevin McHale. He had Everymove there was and they weren't unteachable.

I don't know why we don't see more ball fakes and step thru's anymore.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Bill Cartwright say what you will about the man is actually a damn good big man coach.


----------



## SheriffKilla

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

its hard to say who is actually better but Oden is the better rebounder/defender
Lopez is a better offensive player but his FG%/TS% will always be lower because of the way he plays
Oden rarely shoots anything outside 7 feet
Kobes TS is lower than Odens too doesnt mean he is a worse offensive player


----------



## Tom

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Well, you can't be a great offensive player if you are sitting on the bench.

Lopez plays for a CBA team so he will shoot more.


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> PER is a stat that equalizes minutes, so it should be a given. All I'm saying is that Oden has been really really good in the minutes he has played and he just has some bad habits that need to be corrected. I don't think the jump from 25 to 35 minutes is a big one, especially when you start the game and finish the game (meaning you're competing against the other teams best players).
> 
> There is a lot of good young centers. I think the idea that Lopez has seperated himself from Gasol, Bynum, Oden or even Noah is silly. They're all good.


PER takes minutes into consideration, but you don't have to be very smart to know that the impact of a player that only plays 20 minutes a game it's smaller than the impact of a player that plays 40 minutes a game.

An example and a question: Which would you pick ?

Player A has a PER of 25.0 and averages 20 minutes per game.
Player B has a PER of 22.0 and averages 40 minutes a game.


Give me player B to me.


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Man the amount of passes for sub-par performances Oden gets on this board is astonishing. Wake up people, he isn't what he was predicted to be.


co-sign.

I'm not one of those Oden haters that will jump on him just because he was picked first, however I don't understand why some people are so obsesed with protecting him. I actually like him and I think that he is/will be a very valuable player on playoff teams. But some people just want to make him an all-time great which is something that he isn't.


----------



## Tom

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He should be able to 12 and 8 in his sleep.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Man the amount of passes for sub-par performances Oden gets on this board is astonishing. Wake up people, he isn't what he was predicted to be.


You mean he won't be David Abdul-O'Chambewing


----------



## Bogg

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

At this point I'm just throwing gasoline on a fire, but Marc Gasol is in the same rookie class as Oden and Lopez, and he's averaging a 15-11 on 63% shooting while playing with three guys who can arguably be called ballhogs. You can make a legitimate argument that Oden's only the third-best center in his rookie class so far.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Bogg said:


> At this point I'm just throwing gasoline on a fire, but Marc Gasol is in the same rookie class as Oden and Lopez, and he's averaging a 15-11 on 63% shooting while playing with three guys who can arguably be called ballhogs. You can make a legitimate argument that Oden's only the third-best center in his rookie class so far.


hasn't Marc Gasol played something like 5 years professionally?

I still would wait until Oden is posting 10/10 when he's 25 before declaring him a bust. But it is looking more and more like Portland got a Patrick Ewing.

EDIT: On behalf of the Suns, we'd like to offer the Blazers Alando Tucker, our 2012 pick, and a pack of spearmint gum for Oden.


----------



## Bogg

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> hasn't Marc Gasol played something like 5 years professionally?
> 
> I still would wait until Oden is posting 10/10 when he's 25 before declaring him a bust. But it is looking more and more like Portland got a Patrick Ewing.
> 
> EDIT: On behalf of the Suns, we'd like to offer the Blazers Alando Tucker, our 2012 pick, and a pack of spearmint gum for Oden.


I'm not saying that Baby Gasol is the next big thing in the NBA or that he should be judged on the same criteria as the younger Oden, but if you look at production so far, both Lopez and Gasol have been better than Oden. I'm mostly just saying this for the sake of argument though, so don't think I'll get upset if anyone disagrees.


EDIT: At this point Portland can only hope he's a good as Ewing.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Bogg said:


> I'm not saying that Baby Gasol is the next big thing in the NBA or that he should be judged on the same criteria as the younger Oden, but if you look at production so far, both Lopez and Gasol have been better than Oden. I'm mostly just saying this for the sake of argument though, so don't think I'll get upset if anyone disagrees.
> 
> 
> EDIT: At this point Portland can only hope he's a good as *Dale Davis.*


Fixed


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If Oden was Ewing he'd be second to Howard (with a legitimate case against him) by the end of next year.


----------



## LA68

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dre™ said:


> If Oden was Ewing he'd be second to Howard (with a legitimate case against him) by the end of next year.


He has a better shot at Daniel Ewing ! 

Portland has had such a fascination with ultimate big men since Walton hurt his feet. And mostly it has bombed out. Maybe be happy with Prz, he gets boards and tries hard. 

I'd be more concerned with why they fool around with Webster, Batum , Outlaw and the rest yet, Rudy can't start....but, I digress.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Lopez is having his way against the Blazers frontcourt right now. 16pts,9rebs and its only the first half. Oden has 6pts,4rebs


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Lopez needs to get some blocks because he is on my fantasy team and that's the only category I'm losing this week.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Lopez is having his way against the Blazers frontcourt right now. 16pts,9rebs and its only the first half. Oden has 6pts,4rebs


Lopez has played double the minutes that Oden has.


----------



## Jayps15

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Lopez had his way against Pryz and Aldridge when he hit the offensive boards, he had 4pts and 1 board and a TO when on the floor head to head with GO, to Oden's 6 and 3 with a block a steal and an assist.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



> Lopez has played double the minutes that Oden has


And how is it Lopez' fault that Oden is foul prone?


----------



## Jayps15

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> And how is it Lopez' fault that Oden is foul prone?


They both had the exact same number of fouls when GO came out at the 6min mark as he always does. How is it Oden's fault that he plays on a team with other talented big men instead of the likes of josh boone and sean williams?


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

16 and 9 for Lopez at the half is impressive. Oden isn't necessarily having a bad game, but Lopez is playing better.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Jayps15 said:


> They both had the exact same number of fouls when GO came out at the 6min mark as he always does. How is it Oden's fault that he plays on a team with other talented big men instead of the likes of josh boone and sean williams?


Lopez is shouldering the offensive load on his team, Oden couldnt even dream of doing that. Do you think Oden could make a shot outside of 10 feet?


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Lopez is shouldering the offensive load on his team, Oden couldnt even dream of doing that. Do you think Oden could make a shot outside of 10 feet?


I think Oden could shoulder the offensive load of a team that is 0-14.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

They've played close in most of those games, they'd probably get blown out if that were the case with Oden.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Lopez needs to work on his efficiency though. 22 points on 22 shots tonight. That's just bad for a center.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Thats because his coach tells him to take perimeter jumpers because his teammates have a difficulty getting good looks. He has to spread the floor for everyone else. He's not playing efficient basketball the way they utilize him on that team.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> They've played close in most of those games, they'd probably get blown out if that were the case with Oden.


What happens during garbage time, happens during garbage time.


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden is shooting 64% from the field and is averaging 11 and 8 in only 24 minutes a game. 

Lopez is shooting 46% from the field, is averaging exactly as many rebounds and only 4 points more a game despite playing 35 minutes a game.

Early foul trouble is the only difference.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

2 blocks for Lopez. Atta kid.


----------



## BlackNRed

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

My thoughts are that he already looks like a 40+ year old man it's no surprise he's as frail as one too. :beheader:


----------



## aussiestatman

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> 16 and 9 for Lopez at the half is impressive. Oden isn't necessarily having a bad game, but Lopez is playing better.


personally, i'd rather have 18, 8, 4bl, and the W than 32 and 14!


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Lopez is shouldering the offensive load on his team, Oden couldnt even dream of doing that.


oden doesn't have to dream of doing that because he plays on a team good enough that he isn't given the opportunity.



> Do you think Oden could make a shot outside of 10 feet?


yes. he's been 80% from the free throw line this year. do you know how far away that is from the basket?


----------



## zagsfan20

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden doesn't really need to play outside of 10 ft. It pointless, it takes away his efficiency and they already have Aldridge in the frontcourt with the solid outside jumper.


----------



## Prolific Scorer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I would say it's more like comparing Dwight Howard to Chris Bosh. Bosh has more skills and is more fluid, but Dwight makes up his value in being a monster underneath the hoop with dunks and putbacks, and requiring constant attention.


I see what you're trying to say, but Lopez has a postgame and isn't much of a faceup player at all. Lopez is just flatout better at Oden at everything offensively (at least at this point)


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> *oden doesn't have to dream of doing that because he plays on a team good enough that he isn't given the opportunity.*
> 
> 
> yes. he's been 80% from the free throw line this year. do you know how far away that is from the basket?


Ding ding ding, but dont get it confused though, his lack of an offense will bite them in the rear come playoff time. His FT% is definitely impressive, though he's not taking much.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

This guy is cursed it seems, I feel bad for him, just cant stay on court.
*
Link*



> Portland Trail Blazers center Greg Oden hurt his left knee early in the first quarter Saturday night as his team hosted the visiting Houston Rockets.
> 
> Rockets point guard Aaron Brooks, dribbling from the left side of the court, drove at the basket and Oden jumped to contest the shot. The Blazers big-man came down clutching his left knee.
> 
> Oden stayed down on the court and was eventually wheeled away on a stretcher. Blazers fans tried to be as encouraging as possible, but they unfortunately have good reason to fear the worst.
> 
> Hopefully the injury is not another major setback.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He just can not catch a break, can he? Hopefully this isn't as serious as it initially sounds.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



> That's when you know it's pretty ugly, when the staff from the opposing team sprints faster than your own can get from their end of floor.


Sounds bad. Even when you look at him, he just looks so akward, like he's struggling with his balance. Wont be surprised if he is suffering from gigantism.


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Jesus Christ. Horrible.


----------



## DaRizzle

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Blazer forums are organizing mass suicides


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Sounds bad. Even when you look at him, he just looks so akward, like he's struggling with his balance. Wont be surprised if he is suffering from gigantism.


Gigantism can be diagnosed pretty easily, it's not that. But honestly, big guys in the NBA have a lot more balance issues than you think. I still see a guy like Bynum as prone to future injury because the dude is so awkward with his balance and jumping at times.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It didnt look good at all, who knows though...


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Well damn it. It's sad when 100% of your doubts about a player are health-related because with Oden there was never question about his ability in my mind. He just can't stay on the court. This season he was starting to play some big time basketball and he goes down again. Such a shame.


----------



## Luke

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Hopefully it's not too serious. I honestly feel bad for the guy.


----------



## Diable

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I really liked Durant a lot better than him coming into the draft,but right now Sam Bowie is rolling over in his grave.I always expected that he'd be a good,but not great NBA player.He just can't stay upright long enough to do that.


----------



## DaRizzle

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*


----------



## Kidd

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Damn it.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



DaRizzle said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stYZMOvFGcA


Dude, he had to have messed up his knee badly. When you watch the video, look at the people in the first row and the rockets players on the bench and watch their reaction when Oden turns around. It looks like his knee separated or something...

Not a good sign at all...terrible


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

done for season?



> Greg Oden will have surgery on the broken left knee cap. No way he will return this season.


 - Woj


----------



## Bogg

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Yep, he's done for the year. You can give somebody a do-over, but you can't make the right pick for them.


----------



## HKF

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Portland's season is pretty much over now. I mean Batum, Outlaw and Oden. This team is a mediocre playoff team at best now.


----------



## Basel

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Just sad. I feel bad for the guy.


----------



## seifer0406

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Something about left patella and will require surgery, season over.

I'll be surprised if he recovers 100% from this. You got to feel bad for the Blazers.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He's definitely done this year. 

He does have that condition where one leg is longer than the other.


----------



## Bubbles

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Fractured patella. ****, I really feel sorry for him.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It will be interesting how Portland plays after this. I believe that people will see how big of a difference he had been making, even in 25 minutes per game. 

Either way, my doubt that he can stay healthy long enough to be reliable has become near certainty. Sad because he was a favorite of mine since his high school days. Oh well. At some point you have to give up on a guy. 

On another note, Pryzbilla will be a good pickup in the fantasy leagues.


----------



## shoop da whoop

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

:nonono:


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

that looked bad.


----------



## TucsonClip

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*










Yikes


----------



## Diable

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I never saw a knee look like that.I don't think it's supposed to either.


----------



## DaRizzle

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Hey Basel...guess who picked up Pryzbilla in our fantasy league :banana:


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Did his knee hit Brooks? I couldn't tell on the youtube clip how exactly he hurt it


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



DaRizzle said:


> Hey Basel...guys who picked up Pryzbilla in our fantasy league :banana:


I'm itching to pick him up, but my waivers for Kevin Love should clear tomorrow and I think he'll be better than Pryzbilla. I hope Joel is there tomorrow if I don't get Love.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



> For all the bows taken in Portland, Kevin Pritchard's legacy will likely be reduced to this: He picked the wrong player in the '07 Draft.





> It's all sad and unfortunate for Oden, who doesn't deserve this. He's a real gentleman.


 - Woj

That is sounding like the Bowie Jordan talk.


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Wow I feel bad for him, and he was having a nice season too. His knee had a dent woah.


----------



## ATLien

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I feel bad for Greg, because in interviews he comes across really likeable. It's just too bad.


----------



## John

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Too bad for him. He is not going to get an overrated contract like some youg player does. I would say he will be out of league after his contract is up.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> That is sounding like the Bowie Jordan talk.


This will only come on strong if Durant leads his team to a title, which is possible, but is a ways off.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Even if dude comes back, psychologically he will never be the same. Same thing happened to Vince, all the dunking after injuries, he had to cut down on it. When you are worried about staying healthy rather than just playing your game out there, you have got a problem.


----------



## Bogg

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Dude's got Ewing's body with my granddad's skeletal structure.


----------



## Lynx

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oh Christ..

Just saw this on ESPN Update..and it was regarding Portland..and I had a feeling it was Oden.


----------



## Idunkonyou

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It is crazy how this guy can not stay healthy. Yao Ming part 2. Actually Oden is even worse because Yao was an iron man his first 3 or 4 years in the league before his injuries started.


----------



## ScottVdub

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I hope hes more like Bill Walton part 2 and is healthy long enough to get Portland a ring


----------



## Idunkonyou

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



ScottVdub said:


> I hope hes more like Bill Walton part 2 and is healthy long enough to get Portland a ring


Walton was actually healthy early in his career and then started having foot and back issues. Oden can't even stay on the floor for a season and he is only in his 2nd year. :wtf:


----------



## TucsonClip

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I forget who said it on ESPN, Stein, Ford, Hollinger, or Thorpe, but they made a good point.

Despite what Durant is now, Oden has to ability to be a defensive anchor that leads to championships. He was definitely proving that true this year, especially with just limited minutes. Love Durant and im sure the Blazers would kill to have him, but Oden is the difference between a championship caliber team and a playoff team.

Durant might end up being that same type of player, but Oden's impact on defense cant be denied or understated.


----------



## Sliccat

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I had the same reaction to this as the Gasol trade, "Oh my god, no!!!"


----------



## Piolo_Pascual

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*










Similar to Livingston?


----------



## futuristxen

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Jesus what is he made out of? I don't know if I've ever seen someone as physically well built as him that was so fragile. Even Yao stayed together for a lot of games over his career compared to this guy. 

He should just retire before he ends up dying on the court or something. His body just can't take sports. Get out while you still can. Hope he's investing that rookie check.


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Honestly, can we lock this thread because at this point the title of it and the thread itself is just mean given today's circumstances. Injuries like this are just horrible.


----------



## HKF

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Well honestly this is what Najee wanted anyway. I mean he's probably having a champagne bath over it.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> That is sounding like the Bowie Jordan talk.


I wish people would stop this. Oden had a broken wrist going into college. There was no way to predict his pro career based on that. Sam Bowie (and for the record I was a huge fan of Bowie) spent six years at the college level because he suffered several leg breaks and eventually underwent a double bone graft to cure his problems, _while still at UK_.


----------



## LA68

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Bill Walton is still having surgeries for injuries he originally sustained in the 70's. And had to quit announcing partly because of it. 

I hope Oden has saved his money and invested well. Because his body is just not made for competitive sports. Like Johnathan Bender, Livingston ,some just can't handle the rigors of the game.


----------



## Diable

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Bill Walton was a skilled basketball player.In fact he was on the level of the all time greats during the times when he was healthy.I don't believe he was even healthy the year Portland won the title though.I think he missed a lot of games that year.So far Oden has done nothing to draw comparison to Walton aside from looking like he traveled with the Dead in the Sixties.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> I wish people would stop this. Oden had a broken wrist going into college. There was no way to predict his pro career based on that. Sam Bowie (and for the record I was a huge fan of Bowie) spent six years at the college level because he suffered several leg breaks and eventually underwent a double bone graft to cure his problems, _while still at UK_.


Sam Bowie spent five years at Kentucky, and unlike Greg Oden came into college healthy. Bowie's leg problems occurred at the end of his sophomore season at UK. 

The problem with Oden's injuries is the lack of time he's actually played and when he gets injured it seems more serious than others in similar circumstances. This latest injury should close the book on how brittle Oden is, in addition to his other shortcomings.


----------



## Wade County

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He was just starting to play some really good ball...damn shame that he's out again.

Get well soon, G.O.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Diable said:


> Bill Walton was a skilled basketball player.In fact he was on the level of the all time greats during the times when he was healthy.I don't believe he was even healthy the year Portland won the title though.I think he missed a lot of games that year.So far Oden has done nothing to draw comparison to Walton aside from looking like he traveled with the Dead in the Sixties.


Yeah, even during his time in Portland Bill Walton missed a lot of games. He missed 78 games in his first two seasons and even in Portland's title season in 1976-77 he missed 17 games. Even in his MVP season, Walton only played in 58 games and then missed the entire 1978-79 season.

Like Greg Oden, Walton had an injury pattern that foreshadowed his NBA career. In high school, Walton broke an ankle, a leg, and several bones in his feet and underwent knee surgery. At UCLA, he suffered tendinitis in his knees and injured his back. 

The difference between the two, as you said, is the skill level. Walton was one of the most skilled big men ever to play when healthy. Walton was like Tim Duncan with better passing skills. To me, Oden didn't have a lot of skill -- I disliked Portland selecting Oden more because of his skillset and an apparent lack of energy or interest that he showed in the Ohio State games I saw.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> Did his knee hit Brooks? I couldn't tell on the youtube clip how exactly he hurt it


Based on what I saw on replays on ESPN, Greg Oden doesn't make much if any contact with Aaron Brooks. If any part of Oden's lower body touched Brooks, it was the right knee area; Oden's injury is on the left knee.

The frightening part about the replay is that in addition to no contact, Oden was in pain before he went down to the floor. It was basically after the peak of his jump you can see Oden in serious pain.



MB30 said:


> He was just starting to play some really good ball...damn shame that he's out again.
> 
> Get well soon, G.O.


That's the irony. Greg Oden actually was showing some consistency in his game and his performance level had stepped up in the past few weeks. But it's really a chicken-and-egg situation with him: His skill level will never have a chance to improve if he's never healthy, and the health issues he has are very severe.


----------



## Ben

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I feel really bad for the big guy, cos he seems a nice guy too, doesn't deserve this.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



TucsonClip said:


> I forget who said it on ESPN, Stein, Ford, Hollinger, or Thorpe, but they made a good point.
> 
> Despite what Durant is now, Oden has to ability to be a defensive anchor that leads to championships. He was definitely proving that true this year, especially with just limited minutes. Love Durant and im sure the Blazers would kill to have him, but Oden is the difference between a championship caliber team and a playoff team.
> 
> Durant might end up being that same type of player, but Oden's impact on defense cant be denied or understated.



Yeah, Oden's impact on defense can't be denier or understated, for the 2 games he plays a year....


----------



## Dee-Zy

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> I wish people would stop this. Oden had a broken wrist going into college. There was no way to predict his pro career based on that. Sam Bowie (and for the record I was a huge fan of Bowie) spent six years at the college level because he suffered several leg breaks and eventually underwent a double bone graft to cure his problems, _while still at UK_.



I think what most people mean when they make the Bowie-Jordan reference is not so much that Portland made the wrong decision but rather they ended up with the wrong guy. More like an irony thing.

Imagine Roy and Durant though... wow.... I might have a boner right now...


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> I still would wait until Oden is posting 10/10 when he's 25 before declaring him a bust. But it is looking more and more like Portland got a Patrick Ewing.


You must be talking about the Patrick Ewing at the end of his career (like post-New York Knicks, possibly Ewing's final two seasons in New York but that's being a bit too optimistic). Or maybe you're talking about Patrick Ewing Jr. Otherwise, you're highly overrating Greg Oden because he hasn't been remotely as good as Patrick Ewing Sr. was during his Knicks days.


----------



## jayk009

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

lol patrick ewing is a hall of famer, Portland fans would be thrilled if Greg Oden was on Patrick Ewings level....Greg Oden should be posting 15/10 with 2.5 blocks in his sleep but it's too bad he doesn't know how to stay out of foul trouble and injury trouble...


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Portland at this point would be thrilled if he puts up numbers like Kendrick Perkins.


----------



## GNG

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



DaRizzle said:


> Blazer forums are organizing mass suicides


Well, if it's the one I'm thinking about, then at least there's one good thing to take from all this.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Sam Bowie spent five years at Kentucky, and unlike Greg Oden came into college healthy. Bowie's leg problems occurred at the end of his sophomore season at UK.


Sam Bowie had brittle legs, it's why he ended up getting the double bone graft. And that's why the comparison fails. There were nothing like Bowies's red flags in Oden's case.



Dee=zy said:


> I think what most people mean when they make the Bowie-Jordan reference is not so much that Portland made the wrong decision but rather they ended up with the wrong guy.


Yeah, given that they already had a very good post defender on the roster, as well as a pretty good help defender, I wasn't sure why Portland went with Oden over Durant. It seemed to me that the upgrade from Travis Outlaw to Durant would have a larger impact than the upgrade over Pryzbllla.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> Sam Bowie had brittle legs, it's why he ended up getting the double bone graft. And that's why the comparison fails. There were nothing like Bowies's red flags in Oden's case.


You inaccurately said Sam Bowie was at Kentucky for six years when he was there for five seasons. Also, Bowie's injury history popped up after his sophomore season; in his first two seasons there, he was healthy. 

Conversely, Greg Oden came into Ohio State with a wrist injury he suffered in high school. And according to his medical evaluation prior to the 2007 NBA draft it still wasn't healed more than a year after the surgery.

And at least Bowie was a skilled basketball player. Part of Oden's problem is/was his limited skillset and questionable engine, items he never really addressed in addition to being brittle.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden's skillset is/was fine. Injuries have ruined his career. Nothing else.


----------



## Piolo_Pascual

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Portland would be happy if he can play 82 games, period.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You must be talking about the Patrick Ewing at the end of his career (like post-New York Knicks, possibly Ewing's final two seasons in New York but that's being a bit too optimistic). Or maybe you're talking about Patrick Ewing Jr. Otherwise, you're highly overrating Greg Oden because he hasn't been remotely as good as Patrick Ewing Sr. was during his Knicks days.


Who was Ewing taken ahead of? 
Who was Oden taken ahead of? 


Also, Oden will have a very solid career. In fact, once he learns to settle down and not foul as much (I think Dwight had that same problem if I'm not mistaken), he'll be an All Star center for many years to come. Look at the number of FGAs Oden takes. He averages what 7 FGA a game? He will easily get more touches once he refines his post moves and positioning. I could easily see him getting 15/10 by next season.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

The fact both Greg Oden and Patrick were first overall picks are about the only commonality they have, outside of being seven-foot black men who played in the NBA.

The Patrick Ewing I saw was a 21-10 guy over 17 seasons, even with being a reduced player in his final four seasons. Ewing in his prime was worth about 24 points and nearly 11 rebounds per game and a perennial All-Star level player. His offensive game is much better than Oden's ever was, both are comparable defensively and Ewing is much more durable and dependable.

You may want to rethink your statement, Hyperion. The Oden I saw was a very limited offensive player who can't play a long period when he's healthy because he's excessively foul prone and then he's very brittle.


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Who was Ewing taken ahead of?
> Who was Oden taken ahead of?
> 
> 
> Also, Oden will have a very solid career. In fact, once he learns to settle down and not foul as much (I think Dwight had that same problem if I'm not mistaken), he'll be an All Star center for many years to come. Look at the number of FGAs Oden takes. He averages what 7 FGA a game? He will easily get more touches once he refines his post moves and positioning. I could easily see him getting 15/10 by next season.


He first needs to stay healthy and who knows how he will respond once he recovers from this latest injury.


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Who was Ewing taken ahead of?
> Who was Oden taken ahead of?
> 
> 
> Also, Oden will have a very solid career. In fact, once he learns to settle down and not foul as much (I think Dwight had that same problem if I'm not mistaken), he'll be an All Star center for many years to come. Look at the number of FGAs Oden takes. He averages what 7 FGA a game? He will easily get more touches once he refines his post moves and positioning. I could easily see him getting 15/10 by next season.


Patrick Ewing ? Is this a joke ?

At best Oden is a Ben Wallace with better touch around the basket. Someone who can anchor a defense with his rebounding and shot blocking, but he probably won't ever be a factor in the offense.

Portland was trying too hard this season to make Oden a focal point on their offense, which may be the biggest reason why other players like Roy and Miller have been less effective than expected.

It almost seems like if they were trying to make Oden look better just to justify taking him over Durant. Now without Oden I doubt their final record will be any different than with him.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Exactly, carlos710. What Greg Oden did over the past couple of weeks was roughly a little bit less than what Patrick Ewing did for more than a decade. Some of you people _really_ need to stop the jockriding here with Oden.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Ewing at 23 years old averaged 20 points but took 16 shots per game for the worst team in the league. He wasn't efficient at all. Oden at 21 years old was a better rebounder and shotblocker who had a much better shooting percentage from the field and from the free throw line. Ewing's PER his first year was something around 17 and Oden's PER this season was 23.5 through 20 games. 

Oden was clearly on his way to become a great NBA center. Like HKF said, he was going to be that efficient 15/12/4 guy who was the backbone and anchor to a championship team.


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Ewing at 23 years old averaged 20 points but took 16 shots per game for the worst team in the league. He wasn't efficient at all. Oden at 21 years old was a better rebounder and shotblocker who had a much better shooting percentage from the field and from the free throw line. Ewing's PER his first year was something around 17 and Oden's PER this season was 23.5 through 20 games.
> 
> Oden was clearly on his way to become a great NBA center. Like HKF said, he was going to be that efficient 15/12/4 guy who was the backbone and anchor to a championship team.


So wouldn't taking more shots drop someone's efficiency rating? Considering that Ewing had to take most of the shots because he was their best player and had more responsibility than Oden has on his current Blazer team.


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Ewing at 23 years old averaged 20 points but took 16 shots per game for the worst team in the league. He wasn't efficient at all. Oden at 21 years old was a better rebounder and shotblocker who had a much better shooting percentage from the field and from the free throw line. Ewing's PER his first year was something around 17 and Oden's PER this season was 23.5 through 20 games.


It's much easier to have a good FG% when you only take an small amount of shots per game, with most of them being dunks. 

You probably need to learn how to use advanced stats within context. Unless you agree that Kendrick Perkins is also destined to be a great scorer just because he has a better TS% than Oden:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010_leaders.html



Sir Patchwork said:


> Oden was clearly on his way to become a great NBA center. Like HKF said, he was going to be that efficient 15/12/4 guy who was the backbone and anchor to a championship team.


If by anchoring you mean being a deffensive specialist (like Ben Wallace) I won't argue that. Oden is good enough to be the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship team.

If by anchoring you mean he will be an MVP... well, I would like to see him traded to the knicks just to check how big of an MVP he is.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



eddymac said:


> So wouldn't taking more shots drop someone's efficiency rating? Considering that Ewing had to take most of the shots because he was their best player and had more responsibility than Oden has on his current Blazer team.


Yes, but taking more shots also increases scoring total. Which is why efficiency and context is important. Ewing would not have been a 20/9 player for Portland this season as a 23 year old rookie, but yes, his percentages probably would have been better.

I'm not even saying Oden is better than Ewing, I'm just saying that their situations were way different, and Ewing was never a 21 year old in the NBA.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Patrick Ewing was the focal point for his team on offense from the time he arrived in New York. Greg Oden is simply a marginal offensive player who is not required to carry the load on a team that features Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge.

This sounds like the argument of someone who merely is looking up stats and never actually saw Ewing play, and least during the bulk of his career. Ewing had a much more polished and diversified offensive game, including a baseline jumper he consistently made from up to 18 feet. Oden has little offensive game beyond five feet.

Also, skewing stats like PER in order to make a case is a case of not having context. Oden's PER is deceptive because the bulk of his field goals are putbacks and dunks. He's also not the focal point of the offense and drawing a group of defenders, a la Ewing. In this case, you're distorting a stat to make it sound like Oden on offense is better than Ewing on offense.

In reality, Oden on offense is more like a worse version of a young Dikembe Mutombo than Ewing. I believe Mutombo's PER was fairly comparable to Ewing's at certain stages, but there is no way Mutombo was on Ewing's level at that end of the ball. 

I know some of you people are ardent Oden fans and there is nothing wrong with that. But don't you think you're going overboard by comparing him in some manner with a hall of famer like Ewing, particularly when they have largely dissimilar games? And Oden doesn't perform remotely on Ewing's level offensively, much less is not nearly as durable and Oden is much more foul prone.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Why do people constantly rip on players who only score on "putbacks and dunks" as if it's a bad thing or as if anyone can do it? I thought offensive rebounds and high percentage shots were pretty valuable aspects of basketball.


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Yes, but taking more shots also increases scoring total. Which is why efficiency and context is important. Ewing would not have been a 20/9 player for Portland this season as a 23 year old rookie, but yes, his percentages probably would have been better.
> 
> I'm not even saying Oden is better than Ewing, I'm just saying that their situations were way different, and Ewing was never a 21 year old in the NBA.


Dont you understand that he had to take more shots because thats the only way those bad Knicks teams had a chance at winning? 

Why wouldn't Ewing be a 20/9 player on these Blazers? He would have better players around him than he ever had in his early years in NY, which means the defense had more players to account for, which means he would have easier shots and his efficiency would have looked better.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Why do people constantly rip on players who only score on "putbacks and dunks" as if it's a bad thing or as if anyone can do it? I thought offensive rebounds and high percentage shots were pretty valuable aspects of basketball.


In the context of discussing Greg Oden, it's an explanation of his offensive repetoire. No one said that scoring on dunks and putbacks _per se_ is a bad thing, it's just Oden offensively has not developed any tools to where he can be a threat more than that.

I would say that is a fair assessment of Oden's offensive game than distorting stats as if having Oden on offense is a better option than having Patrick Ewing. Like I said, let me know when Oden is consistently putting up about 24 points per game for solid to title-contending teams.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



carlos710 said:


> If by anchoring you mean being a deffensive specialist (like Ben Wallace) I won't argue that. Oden is good enough to be the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship team.
> 
> If by anchoring you mean he will be an MVP... well, I would like to see him traded to the knicks just to check how big of an MVP he is.


I mean being a 7 foot version of Ben Wallace while _also_ being an asset on offense as opposed to a liability (like Ben). Oden would have easily developed into a 15ppg scorer with great efficiency and he is a good free throw shooter so you can't just hack him like most defensive specialists.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



eddymac said:


> Why wouldn't Ewing be a 20/9 player on these Blazers? He would have better players around him than he ever had in his early years in NY, which means the defense had more players to account for, which means he would have easier shots and his efficiency would have looked better.


He wouldn't have taken 17 shots per game because he had those better options.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I'm not saying Oden is better than Ewing on offense. Never said that. I even said Oden is a 15ppg guy on offense in his prime and Ewing was double that almost. My point was that Oden is 21 and Ewing was 23 years old scoring 20 points on 17 shots. He didn't really become great on offense until he was 26 or 27 years old.


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Why do people constantly rip on players who only score on "putbacks and dunks" as if it's a bad thing or as if anyone can do it? I thought offensive rebounds and high percentage shots were pretty valuable aspects of basketball.


I don't rip on him for dunking on most of his points. I rip the posts that put him on the level of all-time greats like Ewing when Oden has a long way to go before he reaches the level of guys like Brook Lopez, Marc Gasol or Andrew bogut (at least in the offensive side)

I don't think Oden offense will ever be good enough to say that he is noticeable better than any of them, and none of them are dominant players neither.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I mean being a 7 foot version of Ben Wallace while _also_ being an asset on offense as opposed to a liability (like Ben). Oden would have easily developed into a 15ppg scorer with great efficiency and he is a good free throw shooter so you can't just hack him like most defensive specialists.


I would not go as far as to label Greg Oden "a good free-throw shooter" based on the limited amount of free-throw attempts he took this season. A year ago, Oden shot .637 from the line with four times as many attempts. Also, Oden only averaged 3 attempts per game from the charity stripe, a low rate IMO for someone who lives in the paint and does all his damage from 5 feet and in. You need to look at a longer body of work before making that statement with confidence.

It's statements like these with which I have a problem. You and rocketeer are notorious for distorting Oden's numbers to present him as something he's not quite. It's not objective and it's more fueled by a personal bias for Oden. It's like you're trying to rationalize every little misstep and when Oden does anything remotely positive you're overrating it.



Sir Patchwork said:


> Oden was clearly on his way to become a great NBA center. Like HKF said, he was going to be that efficient 15/12/4 guy who was the backbone and anchor to a championship team.


IMO, that would make Oden more of a Dikembe Mutmobo-type center -- exceptional defender, decent enough of an offensive player to be effective. Which would be fine, except Oden hasn't moved up to that level when he has played and he's too brittle that we may never get that question answered fairly.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Brook Lopez this season is every bit as good as Patrick Ewing in his rookie year. And Lopez is also two years younger than Ewing was.


----------



## Diable

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

The only way you could consider Oden a cornerstone to a championship team is if Oden became someone who could draw double teams and exploit them. That's the thing that was always missing in the way that people evaluated him.Duncan did everything he does defensively and rebounding, however the reason that Duncan was the cornerstone of four championship teams was that he could force double teams and create open shots for his team mates out of them. Saying that Oden was going to lead someone to a title with rebounding, defense and shotblocking is leaping to a completely unfounded conclusion. This guy isn't Bill Russell who incidentally was one of the best passing big men of all time and a damned good scorer. You win basketball games and titles by getting better shots than your opponent does. He might potentially help with half that equation, but he's not even in the discussion on the other half.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I'm not saying Oden is better than Ewing on offense. Never said that. I even said Oden is a 15ppg guy on offense in his prime and Ewing was double that almost. My point was that Oden is 21 and Ewing was 23 years old scoring 20 points on 17 shots. He didn't really become great on offense until he was 26 or 27 years old.


Here is what you said:



Sir Patchwork said:


> Ewing at 23 years old averaged 20 points but took 16 shots per game for the worst team in the league. He wasn't efficient at all. Oden at 21 years old was a better rebounder and shotblocker who had a much better shooting percentage from the field and from the free throw line. Ewing's PER his first year was something around 17 and Oden's PER this season was 23.5 through 20 games.


You're making a clear implication (if not an outright declaration) that Greg Oden was a more efficient offensive player than Patrick Ewing, thus inferring (if not outright declaring) that Oden is close in some respects to Ewing on that end of the ball. 

It's even odd that since you like to use PER, and a PER of 17 is actually considered above average. Ewing's PER was 17.4 in his rookie season; Oden's was 18.1 in his rookie season. However, this is a comparison for which you need context. Oden wasn't remotely as good of an offensive player as Ewing in comparative seasons. 

Oden is not a good enough of an offensive player to score 20 points per game, even if he was on a lottery team. He would have to get considerably better to become that type of scorer, and that is assuming he is healthy. You're acting like Oden is being constrained by Portland's offense; he practically has little range and diversification as an offensive player, which combined with foul problems kept him from being any consistent threat.


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden's PER and TS% this year (while being 21 years old) is also a bit better than what Olajuwon posted on his rookie year at 22.

Is Oden destined to be a much better version of hakeem too ? Who would have guessed that the blazers had a top 10 player of all time in their hands ? :clown:


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I would not go as far as to label Greg Oden "a good free-throw shooter" based on the limited amount of free-throw attempts he took this season. A year ago, Oden shot .637 from the line with four times as many attempts. Also, Oden only averaged 3 attempts per game from the charity stripe, a low rate IMO for someone who lives in the paint and does all his damage from 5 feet and in. You need to look at a longer body of work before making that statement with confidence.


I don't think using his free throw percentage is "skewing stats" at all. He shot 63% at Ohio State too with his left hand. He is cleary a good free throw shooter for a center. 



Najee said:


> It's statements like these with which I have a problem. You and rocketeer are notorious for distorting Oden's numbers to present him as something he's not quite. It's not objective and it's more fueled by a personal bias for Oden. It's like you're trying to rationalize every little misstep and when Oden does anything remotely positive you're overrating it.




Yeah, we're bias for using free throw percentage (49/64 free throws) to say he is a good free throw shooter. Meanwhile, you're in here celebrating the end of a 21 year olds season, and several people have pointed it out.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Diable said:


> The only way you could consider Oden a cornerstone to a championship team is if Oden became someone who could draw double teams and exploit them. That's the thing that was always missing in the way that people evaluated him. Duncan did everything he does defensively and rebounding, however the reason that Duncan was the cornerstone of four championship teams was that he could force double teams and create open shots for his team mates out of them. Saying that Oden was going to lead someone to a title with rebounding, defense and shotblocking is leaping to a completely unfounded conclusion.


Exactly. Greg Oden is simply not a good enough of an offensive threat to command double teams and force teams to stop him. For the majority of his NBA career, Oden was not even productive enough offensively to force teams to worry about him.

That's why I never quite understood the comparisons with Oden to hall of fame centers. Among other things, practically every elite center in NBA history was a good to excellent offensive player. It's only in recent weeks where Oden showed some semblance to being consistently productive on that end of the floor. Furthermore, Oden's offensive game was one of several major warts that needed to be addressed and he's never quieted any shortcoming seen in his game.


----------



## Tom

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Wow he really is mr. glass


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I don't think using his free throw percentage is "skewing stats" at all. He shot 63% at Ohio State too with his left hand. He is cleary a good free throw shooter for a center.


I would say shooting 64 free throws in 21 games this season is a small sample of Greg Oden's free-throw shooting ability. A closer indication of Oden's prowess lies in his career percentage (.666), because it's based on 290 free-throw attempts.

You're skewing stats, pure and simple. Just like you're implying that Oden on offense is comparable in some ways to Patrick Ewing at comparable stages of their careers.



Sir Patchwork said:


> Meanwhile, you're in here celebrating the end of a 21 year olds season, and several people have pointed it out.


Maybe your definition of "celebrating" is different from mine. Because I would like for you to pull up a statement where I said, "I'm glad Greg Oden got hurt." Nothing I have posted states or even suggests I am overjoyed over Oden being injured (not to mention I'm actually a Blazers fan, so that makes little sense).

Then again, your definition of "several people" is distorted. The only person I counted who said something like that was HKF. Maybe that is because you're emotionally invested in Oden's success, for whatever reason.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I would say shooting 64 free throws in 21 games this season is a small sample of Greg Oden's free-throw shooting ability. A closer indication of Oden's prowess lies in his career percentage (.666), because it's based on 290 free-throw attempts.




That's fair. The fact that he is shooting near 67% percent (or near 66% since you'll probably be hurt by me rounding up) as a 21 year old, with a curve trending upwards (mid-70's this season, still proves my point though. 



Najee said:


> You're skewing stats, pure and simple. Just like you're implying that Oden on offense is comparable in some ways to Patrick Ewing at comparable stages of their careers.


I'm not skewing numbers. Get over it. If I say someone is a good scorer based on their PPG, that is not skewing numbers. You're just not happy with what the numbers say is all. 



Najee said:


> Then again, your definition of "several people" is distorted. The only person I counted who said something like that was HKF. Maybe that is because you're emotionally invested in Oden's success, for whatever reason.




Well me, HKF and Diable (who clearly isn't an Oden fan). It's clear who is emotionally invested in his failure. It's just sad to me, but I'll let you have your day. Oden will probably never recover from this and I myself have given up on him ever being reliable from a health standpoint. 

For the record, I think Oden would have been closer to Mutombo (with more offensive gifts), but I also believe Mutombo was very underrated. There is a reason his teams tend to overachieve while other players on his team get credit for it. Positional value is an important concept in basketball and interior defense and high percentage shots/points in the paint are very important aspects in basketball. Any player that creates high percentage shots for your team, or prevents high percentage shots for the other team, while not many other players in the league do, is often times a lot more valuable than given credit for. It's the reason Dwight Howard is so valuable despite having little post game.


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Mutombo is actually a good comparison of what Oden showed glimpses of. If he ever comes back and able to keep his body together. Mutombo was an underated C who when had the right talent around was able to do well in the playoffs.


----------



## Tom

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He reminds me of Alton Lister...His best season was 11 and 10 with 2.5 blocks...but he was a good guy to have on your team.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video...=UTF-8&vs=youtube.com&tnr=21&vid=000124158024


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> That's fair. The fact that he is shooting near 67% percent (or near 66% since you'll probably be hurt by me rounding up) as a 21 year old, with a curve trending upwards (mid-70's this season, still proves my point though.


Again, distorting numbers. And for some reason, you really seem stuck on using Greg Oden's age as some qualifying crutch. A center shooting 67% from the free-throw line is roughly standard for an NBA center historically. It's not "good," and you were basing Oden being a "good free-throw shooter" on 64 attempts, not 290.



Sir Patchwork said:


> I'm not skewing numbers. Get over it. If I say someone is a good scorer based on their PPG, that is not skewing numbers. You're just not happy with what the numbers say is all.


Points per game is based on actual production; PER is based on a computerized function in some attempt to rationalize offensive efficiency. With more subjective stats, a better clarification of context is needed.

For instance, a guy averaging 20 points per game playing 35-plus minutes per game (Patrick Ewing in his initial years) is better than a guy averaging roughly 9.5 points per game playing 22 minutes per game (Oden) because the second guy has a much less polished offensive game and he's incredibly foul prone.

It's like you want to keep overlooking the very real fact that Oden not only is an inferior producer offensively to a young Ewing, but part of Oden's shortcoming is he is not nearly good enough to stay on the floor long enough. That's not even to argue that Oden's game is considerably unpolished compared to Ewing's (but then, that would require you to have watched Ewing play).

Moreover, you keep using team circumstances as yet another excuse for Ewing's numbers. As New York became a better team (including years where the Knicks were better than what Portland is now), Ewing's offensive production actually increased. It's like you want to make every benefit of the doubt for Oden while making unfounded comparisons and faulty logic. 



Sir Patchwork said:


> Well me, HKF and Diable (who clearly isn't an Oden fan). It's clear who is emotionally invested in his failure. It's just sad to me, but I'll let you have your day. Oden will probably never recover from this and I myself have given up on him ever being reliable from a health standpoint.


No, it's that I objectively looked at Oden's game and watched it unfold over his NBA career. The reality is you're what I call a "ground-floor groupie" -- you wanted to call yourself a big fan of the next NBA star before the player proved anything, and when it wasn't quite coming together like you thought you started pulling everything out of your behind to rationalize Oden's slow progress.

If he developed or develops into a productive star player, I have no problem with that. I respect players for what they have done and gladly will give players their due for what they have done. As I stated earlier, it really looked like Oden was turning the corner in the past couple of weeks before his injury. 

If Oden became the player you fantasized about him becoming, then great -- he plays for the team I like the most, so why would I object as a Blazers fan that he becomes that player? But it's like you and several others didn't want to look at Oden's warts and wanted to blast people for not comparing Oden to some of the greatest centers in NBA history.

It's not unrealistic to ask Oden to earn the strap, instead of being overzealous and unrealistic when he really hasn't done anything of note. It's not the fact that I get off on Oden being hurt -- I just found all the groupie speak on this site so obnoxious, and even now you can't let go of your lovefest.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> Mutombo is actually a good comparison of what Oden showed glimpses of. If he ever comes back and able to keep his body together. Mutombo was an underated C who when had the right talent around was able to do well in the playoffs.


With what I had a problem is not with Greg Oden, but some of the overzealous people on this board that went out of their minds with the comparisons to Shaquille O'Neal, Moses Malone, David Robinson, etc., before Oden played in the NBA and even after his first season. Then came the rationalizations and excuses why Oden wasn't as good as Yao Ming and Dwight Howard as they projected coming out of the box.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The fact both Greg Oden and Patrick were first overall picks are about the only commonality they have, outside of being seven-foot black men who played in the NBA.
> 
> The Patrick Ewing I saw was a 21-10 guy over 17 seasons, even with being a reduced player in his final four seasons. Ewing in his prime was worth about 24 points and nearly 11 rebounds per game and a perennial All-Star level player. His offensive game is much better than Oden's ever was, both are comparable defensively and Ewing is much more durable and dependable.
> 
> You may want to rethink your statement, Hyperion. The Oden I saw was a very limited offensive player who can't play a long period when he's healthy because he's excessively foul prone and then he's very brittle.





carlos710 said:


> Patrick Ewing ? Is this a joke ?
> 
> At best Oden is a Ben Wallace with better touch around the basket. Someone who can anchor a defense with his rebounding and shot blocking, but he probably won't ever be a factor in the offense.
> 
> Portland was trying too hard this season to make Oden a focal point on their offense, which may be the biggest reason why other players like Roy and Miller have been less effective than expected.
> 
> It almost seems like if they were trying to make Oden look better just to justify taking him over Durant. Now without Oden I doubt their final record will be any different than with him.


Ok, let me clarify even further. The knicks picking Ewing first was a mistake as was Portland picking oden over durant. Anyways, that was my optimistic pick, but it's looking more like another Sam Bowie situation where the picked based on need rather than the beat available talent.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Ok, let me clarify even further. The knicks picking Ewing first was a mistake as was Portland picking oden over durant. Anyways, that was my optimistic pick, but it's looking more like another Sam Bowie situation where the picked based on need rather than the beat available talent.


You're still not making sense, because New York picking Patrick Ewing first in the 1985 draft WAS NOT A MISTAKE BY ANY MEASURE. Ewing was a perennial all-star who consistently one of the best players in the NBA during his prime.

How in the world does picking Ewing compare with Portland picking Greg Oden? Who in the world would have been a better pick for New York in' 85 than Ewing?!?!


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You're still not making sense, because New York picking Patrick Ewing first in the 1985 draft WAS NOT A MISTAKE BY ANY MEASURE. Ewing was a perennial all-star who consistently one of the best players in the NBA during his prime.
> 
> How in the world does picking Ewing compare with Portland picking Greg Oden? Who in the world would have been a better pick for New York in' 85 than Ewing?!?!


Yeah, forgot he was picked in '85 not '84. I posted that post and I forgot why, but now I remember. Both Ewing and Oden are plagued by injuries to the point that they don't fulfill franchise hopes


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Yeah, forgot he was picked in '85 not '84. I posted that post and I forgot why, but now I remember. Both Ewing and Oden are plagued by injuries to the point that they don't fulfill franchise hopes


You must be talking about another Patrick Ewing, because the one I know was durable for the bulk of his career. Ewing missed 32 games as a rookie and 19 in his second season, but from that point until his wrist injury that limited him to 26 games at age 35 (the 1997-98 season) he was good for 76 to 82 games per year.

Yeah, Ewing missed some games initially but it's not like those nagging injuries were nearly as debilitating to his game as it was for Greg Oden. Not to mention when Ewing played he was far more productive than what Oden has shown so far.

I'm still not getting the expectations thing here. It's not like Ewing's career was a flop by any means. Let me make sure we're on the same page. We're talking about this guy, right:










Because on some of your comments, it really sounds like you're trying to compare Oden with Sam Bowie:


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You must be talking about another Patrick Ewing, because the one I know was durable for the bulk of his career. Ewing missed 32 games as a rookie and 19 in his second season, but from that point until his wrist injury that limited him to 26 games at age 35 (the 1997-98 season) he was good for 76 to 82 games per year.
> 
> Yeah, Ewing missed some games initially but it's not like those nagging injuries were nearly as debilitating to his game as it was for Greg Oden. Not to mention when Ewing played he was far more productive than what Oden has shown so far.
> 
> I'm still not getting the expectations thing here. It's not like Ewing's career was a flop by any means. Let me make sure we're on the same page. We're talking about this guy, right:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because on some of your comments, it really sounds like you're trying to compare Oden with Sam Bowie:


 his knee injuries completely changed his career. While still effective and durable, his career trajectory was never as high as it should have been.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> his knee injuries completely changed his career. While still effective and durable, his career trajectory was never as high as it should have been.


Hmmm. 11-time All-Star, seven all-NBA selections, original Dream Team member, first-ballot hall of famer. A guy with career averages of 21 points and 10.3 rebounds per game over a 17-year career, and nearly scored 25,000 points and is in the top 25 all-time in several major categories.

Again, we're talking about Patrick Ewing, right? You may have a point if you were talking about Bill Walton, Sam Bowie or Ralph Sampson, but with Ewing you're not making a bit of sense. Not only that, Ewing was an All-Star level player until his mid-30s, so it's not like his game or performance was hobbled.

It sounds like the issue is more of a case of you having unreasonable expectations (whatever you came up with). No one can predict EXACTLY how a player's career will project, just a general idea. But by no measure will anyone in their right mind consider Ewing's career a disappointment by any measure. 

If Ewing was simply a borderline or occasional All-Star, his career would have been fine. But Ewing was more than that -- he was consistently a top-level player for a prolonged period. I don't see how do you even think this compares to Greg Oden's situation.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You inaccurately said Sam Bowie was at Kentucky for six years when he was there for five seasons. Also, Bowie's injury history popped up after his sophomore season; in his first two seasons there, he was healthy.


Bowie's problems started in high school. The degenerative condition that required the double bone graft didn't magically appear from nowhere.



Najee said:


> Conversely, Greg Oden came into Ohio State with a wrist injury he suffered in high school. And according to his medical evaluation prior to the 2007 NBA draft it still wasn't healed more than a year after the surgery.


That's not actually unusual with compound fractures. I had a similar problem at age 12 with a broken wrist, which resulted in my being forced to become a left hander for more than a year because my right wrist was largely useless (the damage left the wrist weak enough that after the cast came off 16 weeks later that I couldn't comfortably write with my right hand, the remaining stress cracks were about seven or eight months healing). But to date it's been my only broken bone. On the bright side I became semi-ambidextrous after the accident, to this day I can write illegibly with either hand. :bsmile:


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

What has Oden done or shown to even warrant being compared to any of the all time centers being mentioned here?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> Bowie's problems started in high school. The degenerative condition that required the double bone graft didn't magically appear from nowhere.


Sam Bowie played in 34 games as a freshman at Kentucky and 28 games as a sophomore, so it's not exactly like he was hobbled by an injury his first two seasons. Futhermore, Bowie was playing heavy minutes his first two seasons there -- including 32 minutes per game as a sophomore -- so it's not exactly a similar comparison to Greg Oden's situation (who came to school with a broken wrist). Those type of leg problems are degenerative in nature, as with most chronicled big man; it's just that Bowie's problems started after his sophomore season.

Oden's wrist injury became a red flag to me when it was revealed at the 2007 draft it still was not fully healed after a year. Generally, such an injury in an adult heals in three to six months (unless it's not set properly).

But the microfracture surgery that Oden had shortly after being drafted was the major red flag to me, given the lack of mileage Oden had on those legs. That is an procedure generally associated with guys who have played much longer than he had (even Amare Stoudemire, who compared to Oden had much more mileage on his leg when he had the procedure).

It would not surprise me if Oden does have some medical condition, just given the apparent ease at which he has had major injuries. This latest injury is particularly disturbing, given how much pain he was in and how the injury occurred.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I have to hand it to you Najee, you are far more passionate about this than me. I just don't understand why. What is it in for you if you are not emotionally invested in Greg Oden's failure? I have 35 posts in this thread defending Greg Oden, because I am a Greg Oden fan rooting for his success because of his formerly enormous potential and the great progress he was making this year. You have 128 posts in this thread trying to tear down anyone being optimistic about him. Even if the whole thread was just a huge homer fest by Greg Oden fans, what is your pay off trying to reply and disprove every single one of them? It seems highly irrational.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I have to hand it to you Najee, you are far more passionate about this than me. I just don't understand why. What is it in for you if you are not emotionally invested in Greg Oden's failure?


Nothing, other than the fact to shut up overzealous, irrational "ground-floor groupies" like yourself.

I mean, you're actually trying to compare Greg Oden offensively with Patrick Ewing TODAY after all this. Do you realize how ridiculous that comparison is by any stretch of the imagination?

The fact that I created the thread has a lot to do with it, as well. You may want to check the name on the door before you entered. And if I recalled, the thread was about Oden's injury history (Guess what? He's out for the year BECAUSE OF AN INJURY) and this thread was pulled up and presumably posted on continuously when I was not present/poseted elsewhere.

So, if you really want to make ridiculous comparisons of Oden to perennial All-Stars who played regularly and were not excessively brittle while Oden perennially is sitting on the bench in foul trouble, then continue to do it. But keep in mind, while you may have the right to say even the most idotic things it should be something you should not exercise.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

You people comparing Oden to Ewing need to seriously wake up and pick up a history book. My goodness I cant believe I am reading some of this.

Ewing was a perennial superstar, and a first ballot HOF talent/player. To even compare Oden to him is simply an insuslt.


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

This might be twisted logic..but if Oden comes back and is even a borderline all-star for the rest of his career it'll be looked at more like triumph than disappointment.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



OneBadLT123 said:


> You people comparing Oden to Ewing need to seriously wake up and pick up a history book. My goodness I cant believe I am reading some of this.
> 
> Ewing was a perennial superstar, and a first ballot HOF talent/player. To even compare Oden to him is simply an insuslt.


Its silly really, Ewing the college player was probably a better player than what Oden the NBA player is right now.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dre™;6133027 said:


> This might be twisted logic..but if Oden comes back and is even a borderline all-star for the rest of his career it'll be looked at more like triumph than disappointment.


I don't believe anyone would have an issue with that. The issue is really how some of these ridiculous zealots continue to compare Greg Oden NOW with perennial All-Stars and hall-of-famers when he clearly is nowhere near that level. It's absolutely idiotic.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

....and people wonder why Oden is bashed like this.

He's not even as good as Brook Lopez, but people are comparing Oden to Ewing. Can I compare McGrady/Ariza to Jordan/Pippen!?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Yes, but taking more shots also increases scoring total. Which is why efficiency and context is important. Ewing would not have been a 20/9 player for Portland this season as a 23 year old rookie, but yes, his percentages probably would have been better.
> 
> I'm not even saying Oden is better than Ewing, I'm just saying that their situations were way different, and Ewing was never a 21 year old in the NBA.


HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED A PATRICK EWING COLLEGE GAME? 

Lol sorry I typed in all caps but am laughing whilst at the same time amazed by this post of yours. Seriously you need to watch some old Georgetown games and realize Oden is not in Ewing's class.


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

What exactly did he say besides mention Ewing's name that is causing this uproar?


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> What exactly did he say besides mention Ewing's name that is causing this uproar?


I mentioned that Ewing's rookie year his 20 points wasn't efficient at all (17 shots per game) and his team was terrible. That is vastly different situation than Oden being on a 54 win team. Thus implying that the difference statistically in points is skewed by context. Ewing would not have averaged 20 his rookie year for a 50-60 win team. Obviously Ewing in his prime was a much better offensive player than Oden at 21 years old. 

That was my implication, but apparently I _really_ meant that Oden was a top 10 player of all-time, based on how it was interpreted. It's getting loopy around here.


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It's a little agitating that we can't have discussions in context without people being blinded by a name and getting offended.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Nothing, other than the fact to shut up overzealous, irrational "ground-floor groupies" like yourself.


So you get satisfaction out of arguing with 130 long posts about a player you're "indifferent" about apparently? That's a little strange. Whatever floats your boat. 

My stance on Oden is the same as it has been. If he can stay healthy, which has always been a big if, he was on his way to becoming a defensive anchor who was also a capable offensive player. Something like 15-18ppg with 10-12 rebounds and 3-4 blocks. Everything he showed at 21 proved me right on that, as long as he was able to correct his rookie big man habits of fouling too much. We may never know now, which is too bad for people who don't root for a player to fail. 

If you want to disagree with that and point out how I _implied_ that he was better than Wilt Chamberlain, then so be it. I'm going to try my hardest not to take the bait.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

By the way, I already said this, but Brook Lopez this year is every bit as good as Patrick Ewing was in his rookie year. And Ewing is a HALL OF FAMER!


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Actually, it started with Hyperion's comments:



Hyperion said:


> I still would wait until Oden is posting 10/10 when he's 25 before declaring him a bust. But it is looking more and more like Portland got a Patrick Ewing.


And based on Hyperion's later comments, (s)he was not meaning that as a compliment to Oden but as a back-handed slap to Ewing. 

Hyperion then said it was a _mistake_ for New York to draft Ewing with the No. 1 overall pick in 1985 and later tried to make the argument that somehow Ewing did not become the player apparently (s)he thought Ewing could have been -- which is odd, because Ewing was a perennial All-Star for the bulk of his career who eventually was a hall of famer.

Then Sir Patchwork tried to make a comparison with Greg Oden and a young Patrick Ewing offensively with some specious comments. He said Ewing was not an efficient offensive player as a rookie (even though Ewing shot 47% from the field as the team's top option and had a PER -- one of his favorite stats -- of 17.4) while averaging 20 points per game.

Then, (s)he tried to compare Ewing's field-goal and free-throw shooting percentages with Oden's, with him/her citing Oden as better in these categories. Keep in mind, Oden's FG% is high because what marginal scoring he provides is largely on putbacks and dunks, not as a function of high productivity or effectiveness. 

Also, his proof of Oden's superiority at the charity stripe was the 64 free-throw attempts he took in 21 games (a .766 clip), not his career .666 mark. Conversely, Ewing shot .740 from the line over a 17-year career and .739 and .714 in his first two seasons.

Several people pointed out to him/her that Ewing was the focal point of a team with a much more polished offensive game and being a much more consistent scorer. Meanwhile, Oden pretty much was a limited offensive player who is not counted on as a consistent weapon in Portland largely because of his inability to stay on the floor long enough to be a consistent producer (thanks to foul and health problems).

(S)he also kept making it a point to cite Portland's team situation vs. New York's during Ewing's formative years -- even though ignoring the fact that Ewing's productivity actually increased when New York became a better team (and in some years, much better than Portland's).

The point is that not on any level is Oden a better offensive player than Ewing at comparable stages. Ewing was far more productive, because he was far more polished than Oden is. Oden is not being constrained by Portland's offense and Ewing's stats were not inflated -- in reality, Oden is simply a limited player in that regard who has some distorted percentages Sir Patchwork is trying to overstate and intentionally state out of context.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> My stance on Oden is the same as it has been. If he can stay healthy, which has always been a big if, he was on his way to becoming a defensive anchor who was also a capable offensive player. Something like 15-18ppg with 10-12 rebounds and 3-4 blocks. Everything he showed at 21 proved me right on that, as long as he was able to correct his rookie big man habits of fouling too much. We may never know now, which is too bad for people who don't root for a player to fail.


The problem is that Greg Oden's health was but one of his shortcomings as a player, albeit the most significant one. For a long time, he never really seemed to be a player who improved in terms of skill level. He pretty much looked like the same player at Ohio State and even when I saw him in high school. Until the past couple of weeks, he played lethargically almost to the point of disinterest.

There are some things you can't blame on injuries. But still, the problem is that the injury concern is not new with Oden. That was discussed during the 2007 draft and has crystallized more than anything else. And his durability is part of Oden's grade, especially since that was a concern with him before he played a game.

Based on what I've read, other people have said the same thing over the past several years -- that's why the comparisons to hall-of-famers like Patrick Ewing and All-Stars Dwight Howard are so odd, or the people who overzealously overrate anything he does. And now you and some of the other ones who were ready to ship Oden's bust to Springfield NOW are being bitter because some of those same warts that were mentioned as possible obstacles have bloomed.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I think it's obvious Hyperion was the one with the unfair Ewing comparison. It was cemented that it wasn't logical when he said Ewing wasn't worthy of the number one pick.

Portland would be very happy if Oden was another Ewing and not a Bowie.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Jamel Irief said:


> I think it's obvious Hyperion was the one with the unfair Ewing comparison. It was cemented that it wasn't logical when he said Ewing wasn't worthy of the number one pick.
> 
> Portland would be very happy if Oden was another Ewing and not a Bowie.


And I never meant Ewing stats but moreso his career being overshadowed by other great players while having the onus of being a franchise player. However now he is more like a Bowie than even having a chance of becoming an all star.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> And I never meant Ewing stats but moreso his career being overshadowed by other great players while having the onus of being a franchise player. However now he is more like a Bowie than even having a chance of becoming an all star.


I'm still trying to figure out which player you're talking about, because that doesn't sound like the Patrick Ewing I know. I can't say Ewing's career was overshadowed in any regards; obviously, you can say Michael Jordan but Jordan's shadow was cast over the entire NBA during the '90s.

Ewing was as big of a star as guys like Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, etc. Like them, Ewing was a perennial All-Star and eventually a first-ballot hall of famer. The Sam Bowie comparison simply makes no sense whatsoever. It's almost too asinine to figure, especially coupled with your explanations.


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> The problem is that Greg Oden's health was but one of his shortcomings as a player, albeit the most significant one. For a long time, he never really seemed to be a player who improved in terms of skill level. He pretty much looked like the same player at Ohio State and even when I saw him in high school. Until the past couple of weeks, he played lethargically almost to the point of disinterest.
> 
> There are some things you can't blame on injuries. But still, the problem is that the injury concern is not new with Oden. That was discussed during the 2007 draft and has crystallized more than anything else. And his durability is part of Oden's grade, especially since that was a concern with him before he played a game.
> 
> Based on what I've read, other people have said the same thing over the past several years -- that's why the comparisons to hall-of-famers like Patrick Ewing and All-Stars Dwight Howard are so odd, or the people who overzealously overrate anything he does. And now you and some of the other ones who were ready to ship Oden's bust to Springfield NOW are being bitter because some of those same warts that were mentioned as possible obstacles have bloomed.


And you really don't have it for Oden lol.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> And you really don't have it for Oden lol.


No, but then again it's not like Greg Oden is in the same ballpark as Patrick Ewing nor people like Dwight Howard. But then again, I don't see you having issue with that.

Let me know when Oden can be healthy and less like a brittle version of Tree Rollins before people on this site induct him into Springfield. Otherwise, CASE CLOSED and move on, because it's evident you can't refute Oden is a "Mr. Glass" who hasn't done much.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> By the way, I already said this, but Brook Lopez this year is every bit as good as Patrick Ewing was in his rookie year. And Ewing is a HALL OF FAMER!


Heh dont make people have it in for Brook also. Those are some lofty shoes to fill.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I'm still trying to figure out which player you're talking about, because that doesn't sound like the Patrick Ewing I know. I can't say Ewing's career was overshadowed in any regards; obviously, you can say Michael Jordan but Jordan's shadow was cast over the entire NBA during the '90s.
> 
> Ewing was as big of a star as guys like Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, etc. Like them, Ewing was a perennial All-Star and eventually a first-ballot hall of famer. The Sam Bowie comparison simply makes no sense whatsoever. It's almost too asinine to figure, especially coupled with your explanations.


Sam Bowie was drafted for fit because they already had Drexler and didn't need Jordan. Oden was selected because they already had Aldridge and didn't need Durant. Bowie's career was sidelined with injuries, Oden's career looks to be sidelined with injuries. That's your Sam Bowie reference. I don't know if it can be any clearer than that.

Ewing was selected to be the savior of basketball in New York, he was supposed to bring them a championship. He didn't. He failed to meet expectations. Why? because the other guys selected were just better than him. Don't even attempt to say that he was on par with Hakeem, Robinson, Barkley, Malone, and Jordan. Hakeem destroyed him in the finals when they met. However, before Ewing got injured he probably would have been better than Hakeem or Robinson. However knee injuries prevented him from being that dominant big man that his team needed him to be in order to win the championship. 

As for his All Star appearances, name a bigger market than New York. Oh you can't. Name another high caliber center in the East during that time (Shaq came into the league 10 years after Ewing and even still there was only Shaq in the East). Yao has been named to 7 All Star teams and will most likely be a first ballot HOF, but is he really in the realm of even getting ONE MVP? No.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Ewing was selected to be the savior of basketball in New York, he was supposed to bring them a championship. He didn't. He failed to meet expectations. Why? because the other guys selected were just better than him. Don't even attempt to say that he was on par with Hakeem, Robinson, Barkley, Malone, and Jordan.


This problem is that you are trying to make some incredibly idiotic parallel with Sam Bowie and Patrick Ewing. The Bowie-Greg Oden parallel is understandable, but trying to relate any of that to Ewing is idiotic.

Again, it is pretty evident you really don't know much about facts and NBA history. Patrick Ewing was selected in 1985; Hakeem Olajuwon, Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley were drafted in 1984; David Robinson was selected in 1987. The "Why? because the other guys selected were just better than him" makes no sense because none of these guys were in the same draft class.

And yes, Karl Malone was in the '85 draft, but he went 13th overall. It's not like The Mailman was considered some surefire star prospect, either. The only player that conceivably could have gone No. 1 if Ewing inexplicably didn't was Wayman Tisdale (No. 2, Indiana), and last I saw Ewing's career was considered superior to Tisdale's. The same applies to Benoit Benjamin (No. 3), Xavier McDaniel (No. 4), Jon Koncak (No. 5) and Joe Kleine (No. 6).

Ewing was better than practically every other player in that draft -- including Chris Mullin (No. 7), who has several all-NBA seasons -- and while Malone may have turned out to be better than Ewing, a guy who is a first-ballot hall of famer has nothing to be ashamed about being a close second to one of the very greatest players in NBA history.

You're acting like Ewing was a flop -- the dude was a perennial All-Star, a first-ballot hall of famer and consistently called one of the top 10 or so players in the NBA during his prime. So what if you thought Jordan, Barkley, Malone and Olajuwon were better than Ewing (for the most part, it wasn't a big spread if there was a spread in some seasons)? Those guys are considered as good as any guys who ever played! That's just about the only players during that period that could be called better than Ewing.

Ewing was a significantly greater player than Bowie ever was and what Oden has ever shown. What's idiotic is somehow you're using the Knicks not winning a title with Ewing as some slight against him. Ignoring the fact that basketball is a TEAM SPORT, do you know ridiculous that sounds considering that Malone and Barkley also never played on championship teams? 

Robinson's Spurs teams also never came close to a title until the team added Tim Duncan to the roster later in The Admiral's career. You keep forgetting that Robinson was a lesser version of himself in the '99 season and was a shade of himself in the '03 season.

Do you actually think Jordan's Bulls had anything to do with Ewing's Knicks not advancing? You're going on about Olajuwon vs. Ewing in the '04 Finals, but you keep forgetting that series went seven games and the biggest reason the Knicks lost was because of John Starks' terrible shooting?

You really sound like an idiot here. I'm just amazed by how many people on this site have so little common sense.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Don't even attempt to say that (Patrick Ewing_ was on par with Hakeem, Robinson, Barkley, Malone, and Jordan.


This is so insane. You do realize that Hakeem Olajuwon is considered one of the top five or six centers in NBA history by most observers, and David Robinson is right behind him? And a lot of people would place Patrick Ewing in the top 10.

So what, Ewing wasn't as good as Michael Jordan? Most people consider Jordan better than ANY player in NBA history. Hell, Charles Barkley and Karl Malone are on most short lists as the best power forwards in history.

Seriously, if you have to go to that level to find players considered better than Patrick Ewing then that should tell you HOW GOOD OF A PLAYER EWING WAS.

This makes as much sense as saying, "Allen Iverson was a disappointment because he wasn't as good as Kobe Bryant and as a former No. 1 overall pick, he should have led Philadelphia to championships." Both of these are equally idiotic statements based on little more than overly simplistic logic that doesn't take into account anything factual.


----------



## Dornado

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Najee - why don't you tone down the personal attacks?


Also, the thing that doesn't make sense about the Ewing comparison to me is that Oden is still younger now than Ewing was when he stepped foot on an NBA court... kind of hard to make a determination of how comparable they would have been at this age even without Oden's injuries.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Dornado said:


> Najee - why don't you tone down the personal attacks?
> 
> Also, the thing that doesn't make sense about the Ewing comparison to me is that Oden is still younger now than Ewing was when he stepped foot on an NBA court... kind of hard to make a determination of how comparable they would have been at this age even without Oden's injuries.


It is not a personal attack to call a statement idiotic, particularly when the context for the statement is made of inherently bad logic.


----------



## Dornado

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> It is not a personal attack to call a statement idiotic, particularly when the context for the statement is made of inherently bad logic.





> You really sound like an idiot here. I'm just amazed by how many people on this site have so little common sense.


Semantics aside, telling someone they "sound like an idiot" is a personal attack... if your argument is strong, make it - and skip the stuff that isn't conducive to a productive basketball conversation. Why taint some otherwise solid posting with the immature digs at people?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If the majority of people read a statement where someone was saying what Hyperion was saying -- comments totally devoid of common sense, historical reference and factual information -- then EVERYONE would say that he was sounding like an idiot.

That's different from calling someone an idiot just out of spite or disagreement. THAT is a personal attack.

It's interesting of you people who were so ardently overzealous Greg Oden fans a couple of years ago -- including ripping some others apart for the slightest disagreement -- are so amazingly sensitive now, even when you're making comments that otherwise that don't make sense.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> If the majority of people read a statement where someone was saying what Hyperion was saying -- comments totally devoid of common sense, historical reference and factual information -- then EVERYONE would say that he was sounding like an idiot.
> 
> That's different from calling someone an idiot just out of spite or disagreement. THAT is a personal attack.
> 
> It's interesting of you people who were so ardently overzealous Greg Oden fans a couple of years ago -- including ripping some others apart for the slightest disagreement -- are so amazingly sensitive now, even when you're making comments that otherwise that don't make sense.


Except there's the fact that _you_ are the one who comes across as amazingly sensitive right now.


----------



## Kidd

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Someone really needs to change the title of this thread...


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> By the way, I already said this, but Brook Lopez this year is every bit as good as Patrick Ewing was in his rookie year. And Ewing is a HALL OF FAMER!


The longer this thread goes, the more you sound like that guy trying to compare Gerald Wallace to Scottie Pippen.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> The longer this thread goes, the more you sound like that guy trying to compare Gerald Wallace to Scottie Pippen.


Pippen was much better than Wallace. What does that have to do with anything? Two completely different players with completely different skillsets. Ewing in his rookie year was not much better than Lopez. Ewing _developed_ into a guy who scored as many as 29ppg one season, and Lopez most certainly will not, but that doesn't change the fact that Ewing wasn't some juggernaut as a 23 year old rookie like some are claiming.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Pippen was much better than Wallace. What does that have to do with anything? Two completely different players with completely different skillsets. Ewing in his rookie year was not much better than Lopez. Ewing _developed_ into a guy who scored as many as 29ppg one season, and Lopez most certainly will not, but that doesn't change the fact that Ewing wasn't some juggernaut as a 23 year old rookie like some are claiming.


No one was claiming Patrick Ewing was an offensive juggernaut in his first two years. The eyebrows were raised when you started making some specious comparison between Greg Oden and a young Patrick Ewing offensively.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I know you love to talk about Oden, but he quoted me about Lopez. That's what I was responding to. And I haven't said anything about Ewing after his rookie season. I never compared Oden and Ewing offensively, I provided the context of their situations and clarified that Ewing was clearly a better offensive player. You are the king of strawman arguments.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> This is so insane. You do realize that Hakeem Olajuwon is considered one of the top five or six centers in NBA history by most observers, and David Robinson is right behind him? And a lot of people would place Patrick Ewing in the top 10.


Ewing was supposed to be one of them. Instead, injuries made him into a perennial all star rather than a GOAT. I never said that Oden= Ewing. I said that they have a Ewing. A player that will put up good numbers but will never reach the projected potential due to injuries. Seriously. Is it that hard to understand that I'm talking about his injuries not his stats?  



> Seriously, if you have to go to that level to find players considered better than Patrick Ewing then that should tell you HOW GOOD OF A PLAYER EWING WAS.



His peers? Guys that played against him? I didn't go and say Wilt, I chose guys that he played head to head against. 



> This makes as much sense as saying, "Allen Iverson was a disappointment because he wasn't as good as Kobe Bryant and as a former No. 1 overall pick, he should have led Philadelphia to championships." Both of these are equally idiotic statements based on little more than overly simplistic logic that doesn't take into account anything factual.


No, it's not comparable.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



> I know you love to talk about Oden, but he quoted me about Lopez. That's what I was responding to. And I haven't said anything about Ewing after his rookie season. I never compared Oden and Ewing offensively, I provided the context of their situations and clarified that Ewing was clearly a better offensive player. You are the king of strawman arguments.


Well didnt you make some comments about how Ewing couldn't put up certain numbers on the Portland squad. What you fail to understand is that Ewing's impact on the game and playing with guys like Roy and LMA would have done wonders for him too. Come on man, Pat Ewing is one of the greatest college players to ever play the game, Roy, LMA, Oden arent even in the same breath. He'd probably get more touches than any of those guys.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Ewing was supposed to be one of them. Instead, injuries made him into a perennial all star rather than a GOAT. I never said that Oden= Ewing. I said that they have a Ewing. A player that will put up good numbers but will never reach the projected potential due to injuries. Seriously. Is it that hard to understand that I'm talking about his injuries not his stats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His peers? Guys that played against him? I didn't go and say Wilt, I chose guys that he played head to head against.
> 
> No, it's not comparable.


Are you writing in red or black? You can't do both. Make your decision now.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I know you love to talk about Oden, but he quoted me about Lopez. That's what I was responding to. And I haven't said anything about Ewing after his rookie season. I never compared Oden and Ewing offensively, I provided the context of their situations and clarified that Ewing was clearly a better offensive player. You are the king of strawman arguments.


You are a liar. Here is the initial post you made that caused several people to respond to you:



Sir Patchwork said:


> Ewing at 23 years old averaged 20 points but took 16 shots per game for the worst team in the league. He wasn't efficient at all. Oden at 21 years old was a better rebounder and shotblocker who had a much better shooting percentage from the field and from the free throw line. Ewing's PER his first year was something around 17 and Oden's PER this season was 23.5 through 20 games.


I've never said anything about Brook Lopez. NOTHING. You are more than welcome to find the posts where I have been talking about Lopez. But otherwise, you are a liar in addition to making ridiculous statements.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Well didnt you make some comments about how Ewing couldn't put up certain numbers on the Portland squad. What you fail to understand is that Ewing's impact on the game and playing with guys like Roy and LMA would have done wonders for him too. Come on man, Pat Ewing is one of the greatest college players to ever play the game, Roy, LMA, Oden arent even in the same breath. He'd probably get more touches than any of those guys.


Ewing in his prime would have been #1 option over those guys, but I don't buy that the Ewing that averaged 14 points per game at Georgetown his senior year would have come in and taken 17 shots per game right away on a really good team. He was seen as more of a defensive guy coming out of college anyways.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You are a liar. Here is the initial post you made that caused several people to respond to you:


Scroll up like 5 posts. My response was to GrandKenyon, who quoted me about Lopez. Jesus christ.



Najee said:


> I've never said anything about Brook Lopez. NOTHING. You are more than welcome to find the posts where I have been talking about Lopez. But otherwise, you are a liar in addition to making ridiculous statements.


That quote of mine you just put up shows their numbers and the context of their numbers. Like I said.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Scroll up like 5 posts. My response was to GrandKenyon, who quoted me about Lopez. Jesus christ.


I'm not responding your post "five posts ago." The point is your logic on this thread started getting questioned when you tried to make some comparison between Greg Oden and a young Patrick Ewing offensively.



Sir Patchwork said:


> That quote of mine you just put up shows their numbers and the context of their numbers. Like I said.


Which again, shows a terrible understanding of context. A more polished player averaging 20 points per game and playing 35-plus minutes per game is a better offensive player than a guy with no offensive moves, scores significantly less and stays in foul trouble/injured list.

Again, that is where several people started seeing you as jumping the shark.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

So what you're saying is that Ewing is a better offensive player than Oden?


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> So what you're saying is that Ewing is a better offensive player than Oden?


Yes?


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> Yes?


shhhh. I'm trying new methods here because I'm determined to end this circular argument thing. I stated already today and yesterday that Ewing is clearly better offensively than Oden. I guess those went unread.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> Are you writing in red or black? You can't do both. Make your decision now.


Yeah, I spliced his quote into smaller ones and ended up taking his stupid color too. (I'm not calling him stupid, just the choice to write in red on a background the color of a basketball.)


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It must be me, because my typing background is an opaque color -- not the color of a basketball (which generally is orange). 

But then again, this is the same person trying to make an argument that Patrick Ewing was a disappointment.

(Puts Hyperion on Ignore).



Sir Patchwork said:


> shhhh. I'm trying new methods here because I'm determined to end this circular argument thing. I stated already today and yesterday that Ewing is clearly better offensively than Oden.


No, we're trying to understand the point on you trying to infer (if not outright state) that Greg Oden was a more efficient offensive player than a young Patrick Ewing, based on specious logic using PERs, Oden's free-throw percentage this season (not for his career) and field goal percentage. 

Not to mention your statement about Ewing being an inefficient offensive player as a rookie despite shooting 47% from the field with a PER of 17.4. That doesn't sound like an inefficient player to me. In fact, it's a ridiculous comparison in any regards, nor have you said what kind of conclusion you're drawing.

The ball is in your court.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Wow, if there's one thing I hate more than people who use the ignore function, its people who actually write "I'm putting you on ignore, doo doo head!"

You act like a 8 year old with an incredible vocabulary Najee.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> No, we're trying to understand the point on you trying to infer (if not outright state) that Greg Oden was a more efficient offensive player than a young Patrick Ewing, based on specious logic using PERs, Oden's free-throw percentage this season (not for his career) and field goal percentage.




Oden was more efficient but Ewing scored at a higher volume. Circumstances needed Ewing to shoot more. He wouldn't have scored 20ppg his rookie season on a good team. Would Oden have scored 20 on a bad team? Probably not. Maybe a less efficient 15 or 16 points per game. Ewing was a better offensive player. Do you agree with this? 



Najee said:


> Not to mention your statement about Ewing being an inefficient offensive player as a rookie despite shooting 47% from the field with a PER of 17.4. That doesn't sound like an inefficient player to me. In fact, it's a ridiculous comparison in any regards, nor have you said what kind of conclusion you're drawing.




I don't consider 47% efficient for a big man. Sorry. For example, Hakeem never had a season below 50% until he was 35 years old. Neither did David Robinson. Obviously Shaquille never did either.


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> No, but then again it's not like Greg Oden is in the same ballpark as Patrick Ewing nor people like Dwight Howard. But then again, I don't see you having issue with that.
> 
> Let me know when Oden can be healthy and less like a brittle version of Tree Rollins before people on this site induct him into Springfield. Otherwise, CASE CLOSED and move on, because it's evident you can't refute Oden is a "Mr. Glass" who hasn't done much.


I'm not making a case for Oden is David Robinson (and I'd like someone to find any post where I said Oden was going to be as good as that): I'm just making a case that you're acting like an ******* and you despite being a "blazers" fan have it in for Oden. On one hand you say you're stating you're here to go after fanboys or something but on the other hand you just dump on Oden. Would it make you feel any better if Oden was the second pick instead of the first: he shouldn't have been drafted at all because he was slow to recover from a wrist injury of all things? So what if he wasn't even as good as Ewing if he just put the numbers he did this year most people would have been happy with his progress so far.


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Ewing did underachieve for his career**. He was supposed to be as good as Hakeem or Robinson or even Shaq after his Georgetown career and he never was. Ironically it was because he wasn't as good of an offensive player as any of those guys

**this doesn't mean Ewing didn't have a great career.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> Wow, if there's one thing I hate more than people who use the ignore function, its people who actually write "I'm putting you on ignore, doo doo head!"
> 
> You act like a 8 year old with an incredible vocabulary Najee.


NO R-STAR! DON'T DO IT! HE'LL PUT YOU ON IGNORE!!!!


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I don't consider 47% efficient for a big man. Sorry. For example, Hakeem never had a season below 50% until he was 35 years old. Neither did David Robinson. Obviously Shaquille never did either.


Hakeem Olajuwon shot .538 as a rookie in 1984-85, but he also didn't have to bear the brunt of a team's opposing defense because he had a fellow All-Star in Ralph Sampson as a teammate.

Patrick Ewing as a rookie played on a considerably worse team and shot a higher percentage than the team's clip (.460). Not only that, you're ignoring the fact Ewing never shot less than 50 percent again until he reached 33 (1995-96) and Ewing's and Olajuwon's career clips are very close (.504 vs. Olajuwon's .512).

You're really nitpicking here with this. Olajuwon and David Robinson played with much better teammates in comparative rookie seasons. Robinson shot .531 as a rookie, but then again he had a talented young corps of players around him and an established All-Star caliber forward in Terry Cummings as his running mate.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> NO R-STAR! DON'T DO IT! HE'LL PUT YOU ON IGNORE!!!!


Not without telling me in a holier than thou douche bag post first.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> Ewing did underachieve for his career. He was supposed to be as good as Hakeem or Robinson or even Shaq after his Georgetown career and he never was. Ironically it was because he wasn't as good of an offensive player as any of those guys


That sounds like an unreasonable expecation problem on your end, and not a performance problem on Patrick Ewing's end. Being a perennial All-Star, top-level player for more than a decade and a first-ballot hall of famer who ranks in the top 25 in a lot of all-time categories doesn't sound like an underachiever.

You need to come with some factual basis for Ewing to have what would be considered a disappointing career. Citing some subjective, out-of-mind opinions and expectations beyond being called a hall of famer does not qualify. 

If Ewing is an underachiever, then what in the world is Greg Oden? Last I looked, Ewing wasn't sitting on the bench as a rookie behind a career backup center. Yet you're actually trying to rationalize how Oden's career has played out so far while taking swipes at Ewing. In fact, citing someone as a hall of famer and an "underchiever" in the same sentence is paradoxial. 

You may want to work on your definition of a universal standard, because you're setting an impossibly high bar for one player (Ewing) and yet a very low floor for another player (Oden) who both were expected to be very productive players in the NBA.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Ewing in his prime would have been #1 option over those guys, but I don't buy that the Ewing that averaged 14 points per game at Georgetown his senior year would have come in and taken 17 shots per game right away on a really good team. He was seen as more of a defensive guy coming out of college anyways.


This is all speculation, of course. But I don't know if I would call Portland "a really good team" in terms of personnel outside of Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge. To me, the Blazers' biggest problem is trying to play too many players and not getting enough of a rhythm and (outside of Roy and Aldridge) are splitting way too many minutes.

It's fair to say that since Portland is playing more of a slow-it-down pace this season, that would have suited Patrick Ewing well. You have to think that if a limited offensive player like Greg Oden was averaging 11 points per game despite the team running few plays for him, a much more polished offensive player like Ewing would have scored more than that.

In fact, it's not that unrealistic a young Ewing would have scored 20 per game in Portland. Roy may be the only player on that team better than him and Aldridge is more of a perimeter player. Ewing certainly would not be splitting time with Joel Pryzbilla, unless Nate McMillian is a worse coach than I think.

Not to mention there are very few center types in today's NBA. Ewing was bigger than Dwight Howard (ironically, Ewing is his mentor so you have to think that would hinder Howard's development in a paradoxial way). In this era, Shaquille O'Neal is older and slowed down. Even if he wasn't injured, Yao Ming isn't physical enough to take on Ewing. You've got a few with size and skill (see Andrew Bynum), but if a young Ewing could do what he did in a more center-oriented NBA in the '80s and '90s I doubt he would have too many problems now.

Yeah, Ewing came into the NBA with a defensive reputation but people were really surprised how developed he was offensively. Georgetown was just more of a defensive-first team with its traps and Ewing patrolling the lane. Oden, on the other hand, just doesn't have an offensive repetoire and that was known before the draft.

It's almost like you're looking at Ewing as a young player who didn't have offensive skills (a la Oden) and became a scorer because he went to a lottery team, when in reality he did have skills at Georgetown. In some ways, you're projecting that false assumption of Ewing in college on Oden. 

The reality is Oden wouldn't be a 20-point-per-game scorer on the worst team in the NBA, because he's simply not that skilled of a player. Until his recent streak of standout games, Oden essentially was a bigger, worse version of Emeka Okafor.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If Oden had gone to say a team like Minnesota who really needed the help, I wonder if people would support him so? I dont have anything against him, yes I think he's overrated by some, but so far, he's been a disappointment and it would have been more pronounced if he were on a team that had their hopes pinned on him. He just cant be relied on at this point.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> Ewing did underachieve for his career**. He was supposed to be as good as Hakeem or Robinson or even Shaq after his Georgetown career and he never was. Ironically it was because he wasn't as good of an offensive player as any of those guys
> 
> **this doesn't mean Ewing didn't have a great career.


On the plus side, he was better than, say, Brad Daugherty...


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

If Greg Oden was on a team like Charlotte, Minnesota and New York putting up his performances, he would be getting compared by some of these people to Kwame Brown. At his best, he's essentially a bigger version of Emeka Okafor.

Instead, you got people actually trying to compare Oden to a young Patrick Ewing and then trying to call Ewing a disappointment. How is a first-ballot hall-of-famer and a perennial All-Star for more than a decade a disappointment? You would be hard pressed to name 10 centers in NBA history better than Ewing.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> If Greg Oden was on a team like Charlotte, Minnesota and New York putting up his performances, he would be getting compared by some of these people to Kwame Brown. At his best, he's essentially a bigger version of Emeka Okafor.
> 
> Instead, you got people actually trying to compare Oden to a young Patrick Ewing and then trying to call Ewing a disappointment. How is a first-ballot hall-of-famer and a perennial All-Star for more than a decade a disappointment? You would be hard pressed to name 10 centers in NBA history better than Ewing.


Are you dense? Ewing was a disappointment because the general consensus was he wasn't supposed to be a top 10 center, he was supposed to be in the discussion of GOAT at the center position. For someone who brags about being pre-historically old I would think you'd know what the expectations were of Ewing coming out of college. What makes this even more baffling is that this is a thread about Greg Oden, a guy who was supposed to be the next David Robinson. If Oden ended up only becoming, which is unlikely so don't break a hip by jumping out of your chair, a contender for just the top 10 centers of all time; you, along with every other person who has emotionally invested in his failure, would be up in arms about how he never was better then David Robinson therefore making him a disappointment. But keep reaching for those straws there buddy, you wouldn't want to get out of practice.


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> That sounds like an unreasonable expecation problem on your end, and not a performance problem on Patrick Ewing's end. Being a perennial All-Star, top-level player for more than a decade and a first-ballot hall of famer who ranks in the top 25 in a lot of all-time categories doesn't sound like an underachiever.
> 
> You need to come with some factual basis for Ewing to have what would be considered a disappointing career. Citing some subjective, out-of-mind opinions and expectations beyond being called a hall of famer does not qualify.
> 
> If Ewing is an underachiever, then what in the world is Greg Oden? Last I looked, Ewing wasn't sitting on the bench as a rookie behind a career backup center. Yet you're actually trying to rationalize how Oden's career has played out so far while taking swipes at Ewing. In fact, citing someone as a hall of famer and an "underchiever" in the same sentence is paradoxial.
> 
> You may want to work on your definition of a universal standard, because you're setting an impossibly high bar for one player (Ewing) and yet a very low floor for another player (Oden) who both were expected to be very productive players in the NBA.


This doesn't make any sense as all first round picks don't have the same expectations. It's like saying drafting Lebron the Cavs had the same expectations as the Bulls drafting Rose or the Bucks drafting Bogut. You are again acting like an ******* by trying to say that I though Gred Oden was going to be as good as Ewing (again when did I every say that): you're creating an argument that I never made. I'm an OSU fan and I watched Oden his entire rookie year: I liked him and thought he would be an impact center but also though that Durant had a much more impressive resume so to speak. I envisioned at his potential more like a Mutumbo or Mourning out of him rather then say Ewing. With the way you're writing that doesn't seem even good enough for you as the only thing that was on ok from your insinuations is that people should have automatically thought he was going to be Pervis Ellison or Olowakandi

In any case like I said, I watched Ewing at Georgetown and he was one of the most hyped players I would say ever. Why else do you think there is STILL conspiracy theories about NYK gettign the first pick? For Oden on the other hand while he was hyped particularly out of high school: there was controversy about whether he even should have been the first pick - there was no controversy with Ewing. So far what was expected of him he was supposed to turn into Hakeem or Robinson. Like I said he still had a great career and using the term underachieving doesn't change that. However, Ewing's legacy was that he wasn't as good as the other guys and everyone expected him to be.


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Krstic All-Star said:


> On the plus side, he was better than, say, Brad Daugherty...


Come on KAS you're better then that. Daugherty didn't underachieve during his career because he lived up to what people thought of him: a good but not great center. Daugherty in no way was though of like Ewing out of Georgetown. Ewing expectations was more like Kareem and Lebron levels.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> Come on KAS you're better then that. Daugherty didn't underachieve during his career because he lived up to what people thought of him: a good but not great center. Daugherty in no way was though of like Ewing out of Georgetown. Ewing expectations was more like Kareem and Lebron levels.


Very true. My point was that he was still markedly better than some other All-Star centers of his era (Daugherty was a five-time All Star, after all), and I didn't want to compare him to the likes of Derrick Coleman.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> Are you dense? Ewing was a disappointment because the general consensus was he wasn't supposed to be a top 10 center, he was supposed to be in the discussion of GOAT at the center position.


Again, that sounds like a case of YOUR unreasonable expectations. It's evident I have a different definition of a player being a disappointment, which is based on a player's performance. It's not going to be based on hype and unrealistic expecations. I evaluate players based on ACTUALLY SEEING THEM PLAY IN THE NBA not on pre-draft buzz.

Think about that: You're saying a player who is a consistent All-Star and multiple all-NBA player who was a first-ballot hall of famer is a disappointment. Do you realize how unrealistic that is? Not only that, it wasn't like Patrick Ewing had greater expectations than someone like Ralph Sampson. Sampson was considered an even better prospect than Ewing coming out of college.



Nightmute said:


> What makes this even more baffling is that this is a thread about Greg Oden, a guy who was supposed to be the next David Robinson. If Oden ended up only becoming, which is unlikely so don't break a hip by jumping out of your chair, a contender for just the top 10 centers of all time; you, along with every other person who has emotionally invested in his failure, would be up in arms about how he never was better then David Robinson therefore making him a disappointment.


You may want to talk to someone else, because I don't place a bar based on hype and projection. I also don't do the groupthink thing, like you apparently do.

I place a player's evaluation on their actual performance in the NBA, not based on fantasy-type projections while they are getting measured in combines and having writers ogle or hate on them.

Greg Oden is simply being evaluated on his performance; I never *EXPECTED* him to be some David Robinson-level performer. Oden is going to be evaluated based on his actual play, not against media hype or fanboys.

What makes your comment more stupid is that even if that was the train of thought, it's not like Oden is remotely close to The Admiral. Oden at this stage is more of an injury-prone Emeka Okafor. So by my measure (evaluation of performance) or yours (evaluation by hype and comparison), you can't make a strong argument for Oden.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> This doesn't make any sense as all first round picks don't have the same expectations. It's like saying drafting Lebron the Cavs had the same expectations as the Bulls drafting Rose or the Bucks drafting Bogut.


You're evaluating players based on pre-draft publicity and hype, which is silly IMO. The reality is you don't know how well or poorly a player will do coming into the NBA until they actually PLAY in the NBA. That's why it is so silly for people to base evaluations on such publicity and hype.

I'm sorry, but I evaluate players on what they actually do in the NBA. It's silly to do it the way you do it to me because you set up shifting expectations for different players based on your own subjective acceptance of media hype.

It doesn't make sense for you to call Patrick Ewing a disappointment. You're calling him an underachiever despite he was a perennial all-NBA player who was elected into the Basketball Hall of Famer. Yet curiously, you're defending a player like Greg Oden (mind you, who also received similar media hype -- so in a way, you're contradicting yourself) when he is a markedly worse player than Ewing. You can't have it only for your subjective convenience.

It doesn't make sense here with your own logic, because Oden was more ballyhooed than most prospects. But then again, I'm not evaluating Oden or Ewing compared to their pre-draft hype or shifting expectations but on their actual performances and play.

The expectations are YOURS and something Ewing and Oden can't control. The performance is THEIRS and something they can control.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> You are again acting like an ******* by trying to say that I though Gred Oden was going to be as good as Ewing (again when did I every say that): you're creating an argument that I never made.


You're inventing your own argument. I asked you if you thought Patrick Ewing was an underachiever, what in the world would you call Greg Oden. It's right there in the quote you copied. It's the second time you've done that; this time I'm not going to ignore it.



Pioneer10 said:


> So far what was expected of him he was supposed to turn into Hakeem or Robinson. Like I said he still had a great career and using the term underachieving doesn't change that. However, Ewing's legacy was that he wasn't as good as the other guys and everyone expected him to be.


This is something purely SUBJECTIVE and based on something YOU devised that Patrick Ewing could not control (your opinion, formed on media hype). And even then, it's not like Ewing was markedly inferior to Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson; he was a shade behind them as NBA players after being _maybe_ slightly better than them as college players.

Again, I can see your point if Ewing had some Bill Walton-, Ralph Sampson-type career where injuries derailed what flashes of potential he had. I maybe could see your point if Ewing was just an above-average starter like a Mychal Thompson. 

But it's bizarre to me that you're calling Ewing a disappointment for having a perennial all-NBA, All-Star, hall of fame career. The guy was a perennial top five MVP candidate for six or seven seasons. It's like someone blasting Wilt Chamberlain for only playing on two championship teams despite his individual dominance. And it's mostly based on media hype before Ewing got drafted, not the fact he got every bit of talent and effort out of his body.

In reality, that's YOUR hang-up. If you're to the point where you're EXPECTING a player to be one of the very best players in NBA history or you're calling him an underacheiver -- based on pre-draft hype without seeing how the person even plays in the NBA -- then it sounds to me you're the one with the problem.

I'll take the guy who is the first-ballot hall-of-famer, since he's an "underachiever." You can take the guy who is chronically injured and is not that effective a lot of times when he plays, since you admitted to being biased to Oden as an Ohio State fan.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

:shutup:


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> :shutup:





Najee said:


> E.H. Munro, now on ignore


Now look what you've gone and done.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

In other words, YOU HAVE GOT NOTHING.

If E.H. Munro was going to do anything, he would lock the thread. And then hopefully, the Greg Oden Cheerleading Squad can regroup for another round when he comes back in 2011 and tries to take back Joel Przybilla's job on the way to the Basketball Hall of Fame.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> In other words, YOU HAVE GOT NOTHING.
> 
> If E.H. Munro was going to do anything, he would lock the thread. And then hopefully, the Greg Oden Cheerleading Squad can regroup for another round when he comes back in 2011 and tries to take back Joel Przybilla's job on the way to the Basketball Hall of Fame.


Again, you sound like a spoiled child.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Maybe if I was in high school, I would care. But right now, how is your "Greg Oden for Springfield" campaign going? 

Because after all, isn't Patrick Ewing a "disappointment" as an NBA player while Oden is rewriting the history books? Only here is being a multiple MVP candidate considered on the same level as catching splinters in your backside behind Joel Pryzbilla -- that's WHEN you can play.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> Now look what you've gone and done.


I have been looking for a place to use that emoticon, appropriately, since I added it a couple of months ago. What better place than a thread where one member is openly masturbating to the video of Oden writhing on the floor?


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Maybe if I was in high school, I would care. But right now, how is your "Greg Oden for Springfield" campaign going?
> 
> Because after all, isn't Patrick Ewing a "disappointment" as an NBA player while Oden is rewriting the history books? Only here is being a multiple MVP candidate considered on the same level as catching splinters in your backside behind Joel Pryzbilla -- that's WHEN you can play.


Are you speaking to me now? A man who has publicly criticized Oden in this very thread?

Maybe you should sit back and think before you post, and quit throwing a child like temper tantrum. It's quit obvious you got a bonner when you heard Oden got injured.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

No, Munro. I'm masturbating to a bunch of dumb fanboys who think a guy who is barely starter material when he can play is somehow on the same level as a hall of famer.

It's unfortunate about Greg Oden's injury -- but then again, is it REALLY a shock given his history?


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*






I know it's only a 30 second clip, but it shouldn't take you much longer than that!


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> No, Munro. I'm masturbating to a bunch of dumb fanboys who think a guy who is barely starter material when he can play is somehow on the same level as a hall of famer.
> 
> It's unfortunate about Greg Oden's injury -- but then again, is it REALLY a shock given his history?


Are you masturbating to my posts as well?

How does this make you feel? *0110110011001*?


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GregOden said:


> I know it's only a 30 second clip, but it shouldn't take you much longer than that!


Greg Oden should have drank more milk when he was a kid. Its quite obvious he has osteoporosis in his old age.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> Are you speaking to me now? A man who has publicly criticized Oden in this very thread?


Now, you're whining like a child with a skinned-up knee. 

It's over, now learn your role. It's pretty obvious the man is brittle as glass.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

This whole thread was started directly because of the media hype surrounding Greg Oden. It's a celebration in his disappointing career so far, so don't act like your not effected by the consensus opinion of a player. It's made even more obvious by the fact that nearly 3/4ths of your posts contain a reference to how Oden is/was projected to be a Hall of Fame player. So if that projection was never made by you, seeing as how you only evaluate players based only on on-court play, then it must have started from media hype or some sort of consensus opinion. It's okay to be dense, even purposefully oblivious, but don't be a hypocrite.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Now, you're whining like a child with a skinned-up knee.
> 
> It's over, now learn your role. It's pretty obvious the man is brittle as glass.


It must be fun to live in Najee Fantasy World. Is your throne made out of pure gold?


You telling me to learn my role. You. Telling me. Wow. That's priceless.


----------



## PauloCatarino

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> Are you dense? Ewing was a disappointment because the general consensus was he wasn't supposed to be a top 10 center, *he was supposed to be in the discussion of GOAT at the center position*. For someone who brags about being pre-historically old I would think you'd know what the expectations were of Ewing coming out of college.


I don't know where this is coming from. 
IIRC, coming out of college, Ewing was regarded as a franchise player, whose stregth resided in his defensive game, and that he would have to make some strides to be an offensive force.
And, eventhough he wasn't quite Dikembe Mutombo, he was a decent enough defender from stage 1. And he developed into an offensive force, alright.
But coming out of college he wasn't seen as, say, Shaq was. 

and looking at the players oming out that year, Ewing was the clear-cut Franchise Player available. Tisdale at #2? BB #3? Koncak #5????

Ewing's career was hardly underachieving. He was never surounded with a decent enough suporting cast (save from a couple of years)... Wilkins as the second best player? Starks? Charles freaking Smith?


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You're evaluating players based on pre-draft publicity and hype, which is silly IMO. The reality is you don't know how well or poorly a player will do coming into the NBA until they actually PLAY in the NBA. That's why it is so silly for people to base evaluations on such publicity and hype.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I evaluate players on what they actually do in the NBA. It's silly to do it the way you do it to me because you set up shifting expectations for different players based on your own subjective acceptance of media hype.
> 
> It doesn't make sense for you to call Patrick Ewing a disappointment. You're calling him an underachiever despite he was a perennial all-NBA player who was elected into the Basketball Hall of Famer. Yet curiously, you're defending a player like Greg Oden (mind you, who also received similar media hype -- so in a way, you're contradicting yourself) when he is a markedly worse player than Ewing. You can't have it only for your subjective convenience.
> 
> It doesn't make sense here with your own logic, because Oden was more ballyhooed than most prospects. But then again, I'm not evaluating Oden or Ewing compared to their pre-draft hype or shifting expectations but on their actual performances and play.
> 
> The expectations are YOURS and something Ewing and Oden can't control. The performance is THEIRS and something they can control.


ROFL: this is an absolute ridiculous argument. Ewing college career was one of the most impressive in memory. Of course, his expectations were going to be higher then a guy like Brad Daugherty :funny:. There was no controversory of who should have been the number 1 pick with Ewing none what so over. What's funny is your bashing people over there expectation for Oden (i.e. the strawman HOF argument) while then claiming to base everything on performance.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> Again, you sound like a spoiled child.


He can't see me. I think you are also blocked out too.


----------



## Pioneer10

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> You're inventing your own argument. I asked you if you thought Patrick Ewing was an underachiever, what in the world would you call Greg Oden. It's right there in the quote you copied. It's the second time you've done that; this time I'm not going to ignore it.


ROFL again I didn't have the same expecations for either player.



> This is something purely SUBJECTIVE and based on something YOU devised that Patrick Ewing could not control (your opinion, formed on media hype). And even then, it's not like Ewing was markedly inferior to Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson; he was a shade behind them as NBA players after being _maybe_ slightly better than them as college players.
> 
> Again, I can see your point if Ewing had some Bill Walton-, Ralph Sampson-type career where injuries derailed what flashes of potential he had. I maybe could see your point if Ewing was just an above-average starter like a Mychal Thompson.
> 
> But it's bizarre to me that you're calling Ewing a disappointment for having a perennial all-NBA, All-Star, hall of fame career. The guy was a perennial top five MVP candidate for six or seven seasons. It's like someone blasting Wilt Chamberlain for only playing on two championship teams despite his individual dominance. And it's mostly based on media hype before Ewing got drafted, not the fact he got every bit of talent and effort out of his body.
> 
> In reality, that's YOUR hang-up. If you're to the point where you're EXPECTING a player to be one of the very best players in NBA history or you're calling him an underacheiver -- based on pre-draft hype without seeing how the person even plays in the NBA -- then it sounds to me you're the one with the problem.
> 
> I'll take the guy who is the first-ballot hall-of-famer, since he's an "underachiever." You can take the guy who is chronically injured and is not that effective a lot of times when he plays, since you admitted to being biased to Oden as an Ohio State fan.


I didn't make an opinion of Ewing on media hype: I watched Ewing *******. He was freakin awesome in college
You're whole argument is asinine you are criticizing people on what YOU'RE expectations of Oden was after watching in him high school and college. You've made several posts in this thread criticizing other people's take on Oden becuase on HOW YOU EXPECTED HIM TO DO. Maybe I should TYPE IN RED TO GET THAT POINT ACROSS TO YOU


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> He can't see me. I think you are also blocked out too.


I thought so too, but I got a direct reply. He can see me. 

_But for how much longer?_


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> This whole thread was started directly because of the media hype surrounding Greg Oden. It's a celebration in his disappointing career so far, so don't act like your not effected by the consensus opinion of a player.


Greg Oden's career is marginal based on his play, period. It would be that no matter what sheep like you would think nor with whom you want to compare him.

The reality is, unlike you apparently, I evaluate a player on his performance. Oden wasn't that impressive to me at Ohio State, and he literally is the same player in the NBA. That's not based on playing the overly simplistic game of, "he is the next XYZ." 

I've said plenty of times I don't see where people are getting the comparison of Oden with hall-of-fame centers, not because I was comparing Oden to those other players. I said that in the context that he wasn't impressive at all in the many times I saw him play. He was foul prone, had no offensive game and at times seem disinterested in playing -- and quite a few times he had marginal impacts on the game. 

So you're free to play sheep. I'm just seeing an NBA version of what I saw a peak of in college, combined with more injuries. I'm still waiting for Oden to change my opinion of him.


----------



## PauloCatarino

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Hmmm... Let's get the ewing comparison out of the way, shall we? The better analogie should be: Is Greg Oden the new version of Sam Bowie?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> You're whole argument is asinine you are criticizing people on what YOU'RE expectations of Oden was after watching in him high school and college. You've made several posts in this thread criticizing other people's take on Oden becuase on HOW YOU EXPECTED HIM TO DO.


Maybe instead of inventing your statements, maybe you can research where I said anything like that.

I've asked where in the world people are getting these comparisons with the likes of Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neal, etc., because what I saw in high school and college was a player with no offensive game and a questionable motor. The injury issue came up particularly after the evaluation of Oden's wrist prior to the 2007 draft.

I never was impressed with Greg Oden, PERIOD. I never said, "I expect him to be as good as XYZ." Again, PULL UP THE STATEMENT AND STOP INVENTING YOUR OWN ARGUMENT.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Greg Oden's career is marginal based on his play, period. It would be that no matter what sheep like you would think nor with whom you want to compare him.
> 
> The reality is, unlike you apparently, I evaluate a player on his performance. Oden wasn't that impressive to me at Ohio State, and he literally is the same player in the NBA. That's not based on playing the overly simplistic game of, "he is the next XYZ."
> 
> I've said plenty of times I don't see where people are getting the comparison of Oden with hall-of-fame centers, not because I was comparing Oden to those other players. I said that in the context that he wasn't impressive at all in the many times I saw him play. He was foul prone, had no offensive game and at times seem disinterested in playing -- and quite a few times he had marginal impacts on the game.
> 
> So you're free to play sheep. I'm just seeing an NBA version of what I saw a peak of in college, combined with more injuries. I'm still waiting for Oden to change my opinion of him.


If you want to reread my post in an attempt to understand it please take the time now, 'cause right now you never addressed a single thing I said. You're just going around in circles now.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



PauloCatarino said:


> Hmmm... Let's get the ewing comparison out of the way, shall we? The better analogie should be: Is Greg Oden the new version of Sam Bowie?


No. Najee likes the Ewing comparison. That's why hes ran with it for pages upon pages now. Him acting like every other poster in this thread things Oden and Ewing are a good comparison helps his argument.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> I thought so too, but I got a direct reply. He can see me.
> 
> _But for how much longer?_


With the amount of people calling him out on his bull****, he'll have to put half the board on ignore.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> If you want to reread my post in an attempt to understand it please take the time now, 'cause right now you never addressed a single thing I said. You're just going around in circles now.


I form opinions of players based on how they play. 

You, apparently, need media hype to form yours.

If you can point out ANY POST where I said, "I expected Greg Oden to be as good as XYZ player" feel free to look for it.

But otherwise, don't try to suggest you know how people form their opinions better than you do. But by any measure, Greg Oden is a marginal NBA player.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I form opinions of players based on how they play.
> 
> You, apparently, need media hype to form yours.
> 
> If you can point out ANY POST where I said, "I expected Greg Oden to be as good as XYZ player" feel free to look for it.
> 
> But otherwise, don't try to suggest you know how people form their opinions better than you do. But by any measure, Greg Oden is a marginal NBA player.


Again, you may want to take this step by step. I addressed how you use meda hype to formulate your criticisms. Just because you try mask it under a guise of "I watch them play that's how I evaluate players," doesn't mean that your not blatantly using an outside opinion as the crux of your argument.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> No. Najee likes the Ewing comparison. That's why hes ran with it for pages upon pages now. Him acting like every other poster in this thread things Oden and Ewing are a good comparison helps his argument.


Apparently, you also have poor reading comprehension. I'm not the one calling Patrick Ewing's career a "disappointment." I'm also not the one trying to compare Greg Oden in some offensively to a young Ewing.

I'm just pointing how dumb the logic is being used.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> Again, you may want to take this step by step. I addressed how you use meda hype to formulate your criticisms.


In other words, "Because I used media hype to form an opinion that must mean you do as well."

Believe it or not, some people DO know how to think for themselves. You should try it sometime.

After all, you're trying to make a dumb argument that Patrick Ewing was a "disappointment" while saying I'm using groupthink to make an opinion of Greg Oden.

I've asked you before to find some thread or post where I said, "You know, I expect Greg Oden to be as good as XYZ." The thread here was created because of questioning people's logic with comparing Oden with hall-of-fame centers based on what he has done and his injury history.


----------



## Nightmute

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> In other words, "Because I used media hype to form an opinion that must mean you do as well."
> 
> Believe it or not, some people DO know how to think for themselves. You should try it sometime.
> 
> After all, you're trying to make a dumb argument that Patrick Ewing was a "disappointment" while saying I'm using groupthink to make an opinion of Greg Oden.
> 
> I've asked you before to find some thread or post where I said, "You know, I expect Greg Oden to be as good as XYZ." The thread here was created because of questioning people's logic with comparing Oden with hall-of-fame centers and his injury history.


You're right, we're all sheep and your the shephard.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pioneer10 said:


> ROFL: this is an absolute ridiculous argument. Ewing college career was one of the most impressive in memory. Of course, his expectations were going to be higher then a guy like Brad Daugherty :funny:.


First of all, no one here is arguing about Patrick Ewing's collegiate career or making some comparison to a player whose name I never typed (Brad Daughtery).

The argument is your ridiculous statement that Ewing was an underachiever when he was a perennial all-NBA player and MVP candidate -- simply because you have some overly unrealistic expectation despite being a first-ballot hall-of-famer.

You STILL haven't answered the question that you've been ducking: If you consider Ewing an "underacheiver," then what do you make of Oden's career? You're not making one bit of sense.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Nightmute said:


> You're right, we're all sheep and your the shephard.


Because only in your universe is a first-ballot hall of famer and perennial MVP candidate "a disappointment." And where is Greg Oden now?

Still haven't found that statement yet, have you? Maybe instead of inventing arguments, you need to check how yours is not making any sense.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

najee, 160 of your 1510 posts on this message board have come in this thread.

i mean are you serious? just think about that for a second.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Seriously, rocketeer. You and these others need to eat your crow. It's been proven the guy is injury-prone, in addition to his other shortcomings.

GAME OVER.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Seriously, rocketeer. You and these others need to eat your crow. It's been proven the guy is injury-prone, in addition to his other shortcomings.
> 
> GAME OVER.


i love it when someone posts something like "GAME OVER" when even if the "game" was actually over, you're obviously never going to stop posting about it anyway.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

No, you groupies will be back when Greg Oden explodes for 15-5 against a 40-year Shaq in a couple of years. Isn't that what you did during the playoffs?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Isn't that what you did during the playoffs?


no, it isn't. thanks though.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> i love it when someone posts something like "GAME OVER" when even if the "game" was actually over, you're obviously never going to stop posting about it anyway.


Check and mate.

His knee injury is an unhealed injury from last year. **** happens, bit it doesn't mean he isn't a great talent. He has the potential to be one of the great centers if his body doesn't keep getting broke.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Seriously, rocketeer. You and these others need to eat your crow. It's been proven the guy is injury-prone, in addition to his other shortcomings.
> 
> GAME OVER.


Game over? 

If you weren't such a bad poster I'd find you enjoyable?


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> No, you groupies will be back when Greg Oden explodes for 15-5 against a 40-year Shaq in a couple of years. Isn't that what you did during the playoffs?


Again, you do understand that me and others (many of whom you're calling out) have posted in this thread saying Greg Oden is over rated correct?

Yet you're grouping everyone in this thread other than yourself a "Greg Oden Groupie". Does that even compute? You can't be that dense can you?


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Check and mate.
> 
> His knee injury is an unhealed injury from last year. **** happens, bit it doesn't mean he isn't a great talent. He has the potential to be one of the great centers if his body doesn't keep getting broke.


Greg Oden is an overrated injury prone guy bordering on being a history book 1st pick bust. 

He has great defensive fundamentals, and............. not a whole hell of a lot else. Other than being injury prone, and fairly inept on offense.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I've come to the conclusion that Portland big men are just cursed. If I were a center the Blazers drafted in the lottery I would look at the corpses of LaRue Martin, Bill Walton, Sam Bowie, Mychal Thompson, and Greg Oden and refuse to sign a contract.


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> I've come to the conclusion that Portland big men are just cursed. If I were a center the Blazers drafted in the lottery I would look at the corpses of LaRue Martin, Bill Walton, Sam Bowie, Mychal Thompson, and Greg Oden and refuse to sign a contract.


does Alridge count?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oh, and I've finally found the gif for this thread...


----------



## Krstic All-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

^ :lol:


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

"He kept apologizing to us when he was getting dragged off the court," said teammate Brandon Roy. "He felt he let us down."

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/fran_blinebury/12/06/seven.for.seven/index.html


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Me and Najee along with a few Laker fans were the only ones I remember who have been skeptical of the Oden hype machine from day one(or at least before his rookie season). A few more folks hopped on the wagon last season, but i mean let's be real. The kid had/has some pretty good potential, but he was colossally overhyped. Remember the Portland stans and Oden zealots touting him as the next Bill Russel?? Dont act like we all didn't hear the 'Lebron of big men' line about 500 times? 

C'mon, let's just be real this kid was blown out of porpotion... He had potential, but anyone who cast in any doubt was flamed. Let Najee have his time. This is not a time to kid a man when he's down, but I cant say that you were not warned.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It's true that a lot of the people that were defending Oden against the injury prone tag have yet to say they were wrong. I mean he's played less his first 3 years than Bowie.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> Again, you do understand that me and others (many of whom you're calling out) have posted in this thread saying Greg Oden is over rated correct?
> 
> Yet you're grouping everyone in this thread other than yourself a "Greg Oden Groupie". Does that even compute? You can't be that dense can you?


Oden is underrated! His ceiling is that of Hakeem if Hakeem was as good as Oden!


----------



## Dre

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I think the number is 82 out of 186 possible regular season games (counting the rest of this year).


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Jamel Irief said:


> It's true that a lot of the people that were defending Oden against the injury prone tag have yet to say they were wrong. I mean he's played less his first 3 years than Bowie.


Need knee surgery and fracturing one's patella once does not make a player injury prone. Stress fracturing one's foot multiple times, breaking one's tibia from stress, and having overall pains from the back to the toes makes one injury prone (Yao)


----------



## Cap

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GregOden said:


> "He kept apologizing to us when he was getting dragged off the court," said teammate Brandon Roy. "He felt he let us down."
> 
> http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/fran_blinebury/12/06/seven.for.seven/index.html


Hard not to like this kid. I can just imagine exactly how he said it based on his reaction on the court that game. God love him.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Thats sad. They probably thought they had a shot at the title.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I'm sure I'm not the only fan of the guy who was doubtful about his ability to stay healthy. I mean, I had little doubt about his ability. I said earlier in this thread before the season started that if you could promise me he'd stay relatively healthy for the next 10-15 years, I would bet big money that he would have a great career. Unfortunetly that was a big IF and we'll likely never find out now.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> I've come to the conclusion that Portland big men are just cursed. If I were a center the Blazers drafted in the lottery I would look at the corpses of LaRue Martin, Bill Walton, Sam Bowie, Mychal Thompson, and Greg Oden and refuse to sign a contract.


Actually, Mychal Thompson panned out so he would be the exception.

If Greg Oden misses the rest of the season he will have played 82 games out of 246 -- meaning he's missed the equivalent of two seasons of a three-season NBA career. Moreover, this is his second major knee injury and on both legs and he's not quite 22. That's in addition to a wrist injury that took more than a year to heal. And yet some of his groupies are still in denial about the man.

Injuries were just one of the potential flaws seen in Oden's game, and he hasn't come close to answering those questions. Right now, the best move Oden ever made was going pro as a freshman -- had he stayed at Ohio State for three or four years, he wouldn't have been drafted at all.

At this point, you hope he comes back but let's not act this is some surprise. But if you have to go so far out of pocket to make ridiculous rationalizations by comparing a flawed player to Patrick Ewing, it's just complete denial. Eat your crow.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Actually, Mychal Thompson panned out so he would be the exception.


Not really, no. He had a couple of decent years, not great, just decent. If Joe Barry Carroll was a bust, I can't see how anyone could view his fellow #1 pick as anything but. If they'd gone with Sugar Ray it might have worked out for both of them. If they'd drafted that guy that went five spots later they might have really done something.



Najee said:


> had he stayed at Ohio State for three or four years, he wouldn't have been drafted at all.


Sure he wouldn't have. Not a single team with a late second round pick would spend it on a seven footer with potential. Nope, they'd've passed over Oden for the privilege of drafting some guy with a 0% of ever getting into an NBA game.



Najee said:


> At this point, you hope he comes back but let's not act this is some surprise. But if you have to go so far out of pocket to make ridiculous rationalizations by comparing a flawed player to Patrick Ewing, it's just complete denial. Eat your crow.


I'm sorry, could you please point out where I've ever compared Oden to anyone but Kendrick Perkins?


----------



## R-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Need knee surgery and fracturing one's patella once does not make a player injury prone. Stress fracturing one's foot multiple times, breaking one's tibia from stress, and having overall pains from the back to the toes makes one injury prone (Yao)


Hes not going to become any more resistant to breaking his weak gay bones over the years. The guy is injury prone. There isn't much argument against it.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> Not really, no. He had a couple of decent years, not great, just decent. If Joe Barry Carroll was a bust, I can't see how anyone could view his fellow #1 pick as anything but. If they'd gone with Sugar Ray it might have worked out for both of them. If they'd drafted that guy that went five spots later they might have really done something.


Personally, I wouldn't consider Joe Barry Carroll a bust just I like wouldn't consider Mychal Thompson anything like that. Guys who are starting NBA centers and putting up respectable production (Thompson was good for 16-8 in his days in Portland; Carroll averaged 17.7-7.7 for his career) are hardly busts.

To me, busts are guys who are guys who are little more than marginal players with the general idea they would at least productive players. JBC and Thompson are hardly in the same class as guys like Kwame Brown and Darko Milicic.



E.H. Munro said:


> Sure he wouldn't have. Not a single team with a late second round pick would spend it on a seven footer with potential. Nope, they'd've passed over Oden for the privilege of drafting some guy with a 0% of ever getting into an NBA game.


When Greg Oden had his first microfracture surgery, that would have wiped out his sophomore season had he stayed at Ohio State. This would have been his senior season had he stayed and he may not have even been ready for the 2010 draft. 

You're not telling me an NBA franchise would draft a center with limited skills and two major knee surgeries at the ripe old age of 21. Teams have passed over more productive players with fewer injury concerns than Oden.



E.H. Munro said:


> I'm sorry, could you please point out where I've ever compared Oden to anyone but Kendrick Perkins?


I should have clarified. I didn't mean you individually; I meant "you" as in the collective group who were insanely saying Patrick Ewing was an underachiever but yet were defending Oden's play.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



R-Star said:


> Hes not going to become any more resistant to breaking his weak gay bones over the years. The guy is injury prone. There isn't much argument against it.


Exactly. The guy needs a major knee surgery on one leg after playing 32 games in college. He plays 82 games over one-plus season in the NBA and blows out the other knee. In between, he bumped knees with another player and he sat out nearly a month. This is a player with major durability problems in addition to other weaknesses in his game.


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Najee why do you keep saying the same things? I am sure even the biggest Oden apologist would admit that he has been injury prone. You have made your point so now you are just being annoying.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Hyperion said:


> Need knee surgery and fracturing one's patella once does not make a player injury prone. Stress fracturing one's foot multiple times, breaking one's tibia from stress, and having overall pains from the back to the toes makes one injury prone (Yao)


OK, what happens when he breaks his collarbone in year 4 and then breaks his hand in year 6? Still not injury prone? This is more insane than your "ewing was a bust" post.


----------



## Tom

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

He may be injury prone...it seems that way...but this injury was a freak accident. 

Marcus Camby is still a productive player in the NBA.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



eddymac said:


> Najee why do you keep saying the same things? I am sure even the biggest Oden apologist would admit that he has been injury prone.


You mean besides Hyperion's post?



Hyperion said:


> Need knee surgery and fracturing one's patella once does not make a player injury prone. Stress fracturing one's foot multiple times, breaking one's tibia from stress, and having overall pains from the back to the toes makes one injury prone (Yao)


Even now, they still are in denial about Greg Oden's situation. It may have been a freak incident that caused Oden's patella to explode, but the fact a guy jumps in the air and his patella exploded -- in addition to needing microfracture surgery after barely playing 30 games -- seems to be a point these groupies don't understand.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Personally, I wouldn't consider Joe Barry Carroll a bust just I like wouldn't consider Mychal Thompson anything like that. Guys who are starting NBA centers and putting up respectable production (Thompson was good for 16-8 in his days in Portland; Carroll averaged 17.7-7.7 for his career) are hardly busts.


Thing is that Thompson only managed to do that a couple of times, and in an era where teams didn't play a lot of defense so there were more rebounds to be grabbed. His rebrate peaked at 16+ that one good year that he had. He was the first pick in the draft and was a roleplayer for his career, and Portland passed over one of the greatest basketball players of all time to draft a roleplayer. He was a bust by any reasonable standard. 



Najee said:


> When Greg Oden had his first microfracture surgery, that would have wiped out his sophomore season had he stayed at Ohio State. This would have been his senior season had he stayed and he may not have even been ready for the 2010 draft.
> 
> You're not telling me an NBA franchise would draft a center with limited skills and two major knee surgeries at the ripe old age of 21. Teams have passed over more productive players with fewer injury concerns than Oden.


Are you really trying to tell us that if Oden had been in the 2009 draft pool instead, that the Celtics would have passed him over at #58 to still draft the Human Victory Cigar? Or that Miami at #60 would feel that drafting Oden presented too big a risk? I mean really? And you're wondering why people tell you that you're blinded by your hatreds?


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> Thing is that Thompson only managed to do that a couple of times, and in an era where teams didn't play a lot of defense so there were more rebounds to be grabbed. His rebrate peaked at 16+ that one good year that he had. He was the first pick in the draft and was a roleplayer for his career, *and Portland passed over one of the greatest basketball players of all time to draft a roleplayer.* He was a bust by any reasonable standard.


I assume you're talking about Larry Bird, who entered his name into the 1978 draft even though he played at Indiana State for another year. Keep in mind, Bird exploded onto the national scene as a senior the following season. Red Auerbach took a whim on a player he knew that would not come into the NBA a year later (the league then allowed teams to draft fourth-year juniors). 

You seem to be under the wrong impression that people looked at Bird as some no-brainer pick. If that was the case, he would have went higher than No. 6 overall (if that is the case, you also need to throw Kansas City, Indiana, the New York Knicks and Golden State under the bus). It's not remotely the same thing as Portland taking Greg Oden over Kevin Durant, so don't present it that way.

Also, if Mychal Thompson is a bust (which is ridiculous BY MY STANDARD) then Oden is nothing but hot, stinking dog****. 

You may want to check your numbers. Thompson never averaged less than 14.7 points per game in his seven seasons in Portland and put up more than 8.3 rebounds per game in five of his seasons there (the other seasons were 7.8 and 7.4 boards per game). Unlike Oden, Thompson was an offensive option and scored while shooting 50 percent. That's not even counting Thompson's years as the first big man off the bench for the Los Angeles Lakers in the late '80s and early '90s.

And I would take a guy who played at least 70 games a season for 12 years than someone who can't even make it a handful of games before being laid out for the year. Do you know how silly that sounds?!? Oden's career hasn't come remotely close to doing anything to put himself in the conversation with Thompson's career, but you're calling Thompson a bust?!? GTFOH.



E.H. Munro said:


> Are you really trying to tell us that if Oden had been in the 2009 draft pool instead, that the Celtics would have passed him over at #58 to still draft the Human Victory Cigar? Or that Miami at #60 would feel that drafting Oden presented too big a risk?


It's not a matter of me disliking Oden but the way some of his overzealous supports overrate him you would have thought he destroyed the college game, a la Durant and Michael Beasley did as freshmen. It's like some people on this board have this fantasized version of what they envision Oden could be, instead of looking at him as what he is now.

As a 21-year-old who has missed two seasons with major problems in both knees and other performance shortcomings, Oden definitely wouldn't be a first-round pick. He sure as hell wouldn't a No. 1 pick like he was in 2007. Yeah, he could be a factor on defense but his offensive game was nonexistent and he had a questionable motor then. Then you add two years off from major knee injuries?!? C'mon. 

The only way Oden would be drafted if he was a senior at Ohio State with his current knee surgeries is if he showed up reasonably healthy for the 2010 draft evaluation. But if he is still on crutches (which is possible, considering he seems to recover slowly from injuries) he wouldn't be drafted. He likely would redshirt and petition for a fifth season at OSU and hope he can play again.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

if you don't think portland could trade oden for a first round pick, TODAY, you're crazy.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Injuries were just one of the potential flaws seen in Oden's game, and he hasn't come close to answering those questions. Right now, the best move Oden ever made was going pro as a freshman -- had he stayed at Ohio State for three or four years, he wouldn't have been drafted at all.


Injuries are the *only* reason he wouldn't have been picked #1 every single year had he stayed at Ohio State all four years. The other "potential flaws" would have had absolutely nothing to do with the scenario of him being so injury prone that teams don't draft him.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Injuries are the *only* reason he wouldn't have been picked #1 every single year had he stayed at Ohio State all four years. The other "potential flaws" would have had absolutely nothing to do with the scenario of him being so injury prone that teams don't draft him.


Don't twist the words. Greg Oden's skill set is not so strong that he would be drafted if he was a senior at Ohio State RIGHT NOW. He would have lost one season already and he's likely not going to ready until after the 2010 draft at the earliest. A center who already has missed two years with major injuries on each knee at 21?!?

The only way Oden would be drafted in time for the 2010 draft is if he was walking and cleared doctors' orders. Other than that, he would have to ask for a redshirt season at Ohio State and show he can play.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> if you don't think portland could trade oden for a first round pick, TODAY, you're crazy.


I sincerely would look into it, if I was Portland. Or maybe the Blazers will wait until 2011 when Greg Oden blows out his knee again.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I assume you're talking about Larry Bird, who entered his name into the 1978 draft even though he played at Indiana State for another year.


No, back then players were automatically entered into the draft four years after they graduated high school, Bird, as a transfer, spent five years at the collegiate level (though only three years at Indiana State). After four years, despite having a year's eligibility at ISU remaining, Bird was available to be drafted.



Najee said:


> Keep in mind, Bird exploded onto the national scene as a senior the following season.


Casual fans had no idea who he was, but serious fans knew all about Bird. My father, for one, threw a party when he saw that Boston had drafted Bird.



Najee said:


> You seem to be under the wrong impression that people looked at Bird as some no-brainer pick. If that was the case, he would have went higher than No. 6 overall (if that is the case, you also need to throw Kansas City, Indiana, the New York Knicks and Golden State under the bus). It's not remotely the same thing as Portland taking Greg Oden over Kevin Durant, so don't present it that way.


Again, no. The reason teams higher passed is that everyone knew that Bird was returning for his senior season, and anyone drafting him was going to need to wait a year for him, and then risk that he would refuse to sign a contract and go back into the '79 draft. That's why he didn't go higher. But any team patient enough to wait, and with the money to sign him, would have hit the jackpot. The _58 win_ Trailblazers were in a position to be patient, and as they were owned by one of the richest men in the world (Soviet spy Armand Hammer), certainly had the financial resources to be confident of their ability to sign him. They just grabbed at the center that turned out to be a roleplayer. 



Najee said:


> Also, if Mychal Thompson is a bust (which is ridiculous BY MY STANDARD) then Oden is nothing but hot, stinking dog****.


So roleplayers named Mychal Thompson, even though they were drafted #1 over a top 10 all time player, are successes, but "stinking dog****" when you hate them?



Najee said:


> You may want to check your numbers. Thompson never averaged less than 14.7 points per game in his seven seasons in Portland and put up more than 8.3 rebounds per game in five of his seasons there (the other seasons were 7.8 and 7.4 boards per game). Unlike Oden, Thompson was an offensive option and scored while shooting 50 percent. That's not even counting Thompson's years as the first big man off the bench for the Los Angeles Lakers in the late '80s and early '90s.


Mychal Thompson averaged 10 reb/g once in his career, his one 20/10 season. In a day and age where the game's pace was a lot faster and many teams had multiple guys average 10 reb/g. Once in his career. Let me repeat that just in case you're not hearing me. He had one season where he managed to grab ten boards a game. That's it. For their #1 pick Portland managed to find a guy that was regarded way back in the day as a mediocre, at best, center. Now, I do understand that part of that was because of the fact that he was _derailed by injuries_. But he was still a bust. He didn't rehabilitate his reputation until he went to become a sixth man for the Lakers. Because he was a much better reserve than starter. But, hey, if your first pick in the NBA draft turns into a serviceable sixth man, you've struck gold, I guess.



Najee said:


> And I would take a guy who played at least 70 games a season for 12 years than someone who can't even make it a handful of games before being laid out for the year. Do you know how silly that sounds?!? Oden's career hasn't come remotely close to doing anything to put himself in the conversation with Thompson's career, but you're calling Thompson a bust?!? GTFOH.


The next time you visit basketball-reference you may want to pay closer attention to which season was Thompson's rookie season and which season his sophomore campaign was.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden was picked #1 purely based on hype. People need to admit it.

Durant had incredible #'s as a freshman compared to Oden, but Oden's HS hype machine and the fact that he was a big man were the only reasons it was such a big debate. Okay yes his team made it to the National Championship game, but disregarding hype, Durant would be the clear #1 choice just based on college performance... 

Before the draft, it was widely believed that Oden's wrist injury was holding his offensive game back, and the notion that he was doing everything in college with one arm only essentially increased his value. Discusions of being injury prone were scoffed at and dismissed. He was expected to be even better than shown in college once his arm healed, but I became skeptical of this after his extremely underwhelming and short lived summer-league circuit in '07. 

The tonsilits and knee issues only added onto the question marks in his durability and game. Though, it seemed like the more injuries and time away from the game he experianced, the greater his legand became. I mean being called the 'Lebron of big men' and drawing comparisons to Bill Russell really had no bearing on anything he had done in college or in summer league circuit, but rather the hype that he had built based on his HS play. I mean maybe the fact that his team had made it the NCAA title game, I can see some ppl thinking about Bill Russell and championships, but that's it... Oden was always a raw talent, as shown in college, who just had great NBA size and good defensive instincts. He could move pretty well for size, but that's it. Everything else was a legend that Oden never really stepped into and fulfilled. A perception that he never lived up to. A potential that he never could tap/


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I sincerely would look into it, if I was Portland. Or maybe the Blazers will wait until 2011 when Greg Oden blows out his knee again.


the point is you're completely delusional in thinking he's not currently worthy of a first round pick. 

and maybe oden will not get hurt, and you'll just have to argue why you think he sucks based on his play.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

*Oden will never be an impact player*



> The draft pick of a lifetime has essentially been wasted, and Portland must now embark on yet another rebuilding program. Plus, with the not-so-secret disruption of team chemistry resulting from the signing of Andre Miller — who has to start, wants to start, and thought he would be starting — the Blazers are even in worse shape than they were three years ago.


Charlie is spot on there. Maybe just maybe Portland falters enough to get into the lottery. Snap up a guy like Ed Davis and he will pretty much give you what Oden did, without fouling out almost every game. Sadly they probably end up with a winning record, get ousted in the first or second round and still not have that guy they need in the middle.

Whilst I dont agree with everything Najee has said, most of what he's said is right, and you guys that continually defend Oden is what makes it even more frustrating. Do you not realize that Portland essentially wasted the number 1 pick? Why would they want to resign him after his rookie contract expires? Thats a bust.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Oden was picked #1 purely based on hype. Admit it.
> 
> Durant had incredible #'s as a freshman compared to Oden, but Oden's HS hype machine and the fact that he was a big man were the only reasons it was such a big debate. Okay yes his t it to team madehonale Nati Championship, but disregarding hype, Durant likley would've been the clear #1 choice just based on college performance...
> 
> Before the draft, it was widely believed that Oden's wrist injury was holding his offensive game back, and the notion that he was doing everything in college with one arm essentially increased his value. He was expected to be even better than shown in college once his arm healed, but I became skeptical of this after his extremely underwhelming, and short lived, summer-league circuit in '07. The tonsilits and knee issues only added onto the question marks in his duribility and game, but it seemed like the more injuries he experianced the greater his legand became. I mean being called the 'Lebron of big men' and drawing comparisons to Bill Russell really had no bearing on anything he had done in college or in summer league, aside from maybe the fact that his team had made it the NCAA title game...


noone is drafted based on college performance alone.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> But any team patient enough to wait, and with the money to sign him, would have hit the jackpot. The 58 win Trailblazers were in a position to be patient, and as they were owned by one of the richest men in the world (Soviet spy Armand Hammer), certainly had the financial resources to be confident of their ability to sign him.


Yeah, right. Like Indiana (No. 3) couldn't have used Larry Bird instead of Rick Robey. WTFever.

We're talking about the same Portland team that had no center after losing Bill Walton in the previous season. You may want to look into the fact that the bulk of Portland's 58 wins in 1977-78 game before Walton went down and the team fell back to earth.

You're selectively doing the hindsight thing and creating your own speculation with Larry Bird, and ignoring the other four teams that did not select Bird in order to make a weak swipe at Thompson. It wasn't like Bird was even a consideration for the top pick, for goodness sakes. You're holding Portland solely accountable for something four other teams did.

I'm aware that Thompson missed his second season in the NBA. I'm also aware this is what Thompson did in his following years:

1980-81: 17 points and 8.7 rebounds per game in 79 games
1981-82: 20.8 points and 11.7 rebounds per game in 79 games
1982-83: 15.7 points and 9.4 rebounds per game in 80 games
1883-84: 15.7 points and 8.7 rebounds per game in 79 games
1984-85: 18.4 points and 7.8 rebounds per game in 79 games
1985-86: 14.7 points and 7.4 rebounds per game in 82 games

That's not counting his short time in San Antonio and then his time with the L.A. Lakers. The next four seasons Thompson played 80 games per year and was a double-figures scorer for 11 of his 12 NBA seasons.

That's not a role player, by any means. It's far better than what Greg Oden has produced in a much longer period of time. Oden's body can't hold up to play 70 games a year and Thompson did it 12 times -- 11 times after his first injury. I don't know too many role players that consistently put up that kind of production. 

Role players are people with limited skill and handle one or two specific functions -- Bruce Bowen is an example. Caldwell Jones was a role player. Moreover, it's laughable you're calling Thompson a bust. A bust is someone like Darko Milicic, a guy who couldn't be a productive player for the worst team in the NBA. 

Thompson was a natural power forward starting at center putting up those numbers for perennial playoff teams in Portland. Oden's production is more in line with Erick Dampier's. So what is Oden if Thompson is a "role player?"


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Don't twist the words. Greg Oden's skill set is not so strong that he would be drafted if he was a senior at Ohio State RIGHT NOW. He would have lost one season already and he's likely not going to ready until after the 2010 draft at the earliest. A center who already has missed two years with major injuries on each knee at 21?!?
> 
> The only way Oden would be drafted in time for the 2010 draft is if he was walking and cleared doctors' orders. Other than that, he would have to ask for a redshirt season at Ohio State and show he can play.


I don't disagree with you. If he missed two seasons due to injury and was coming off two major surgeries, his stock would have dropped heavily. This has nothing to do with his supposed "flaws" as a player other than being injury prone. Going back to my original statement, injuries are the *only*reason he wouldn't have been picked #1 every single year. Simply, if he didn't get hurt at all during those 4 years, he absolutely would have been #1 and it would have been a no-brainer.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Oden was picked #1 purely based on hype. People need to admit it.


He averaged 15pts, 10rebs and 3blks his freshman year at Ohio State. He put up 25/12/4 on 10-15 from the field in the championship game against two future NBA starters (Horford and Noah). Noah shot 1-3 from the field and Horford shot 6-15. Oden shut down the paint on these guys and dominated offensively. These are two quality NBA players and Oden made them look amatuer in that game. 

Oden had the wrist thing, and that just sweetened the pot, but even with a bad wrist he was still dominant in college. This isn't a Marvin Williams who didn't even start.


----------



## roux

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

arent all players drafted on hype? Its not like their college stats automatically carry over to the pros.. if that was the case Jodie Meeks should have been a top 5 pick this year


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

SP, I don't know if you saw Greg Oden much more than the national championship game his freshman season. But I watched a fair share of Oden play his one season at Ohio State and his second game vs. Florida was more of an aberration than a typical showing of his performance.

I believe that is where some people are saying Oden fans started overrating him -- it was like the second game vs. Florida was regarded by his fans as a foreshadowing for Oden, if not a typical game. In reality, he played more like something in between the national championship game and the first meeting vs. the Gators in December (7 points on 2-for-6 shooting, 6 rebounds, 4 blocks and 4 fouls) that season.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> SP, I don't know if you saw Greg Oden much more than the national championship game his freshman season. But I watched a fair share of Oden play his one season at Ohio State and his second game vs. Florida was more of an aberration than a typical showing of his performance.
> 
> I believe that is where some people are saying Oden fans started overrating him -- it was like the second game vs. Florida was regarded by his fans as a foreshadowing for Oden, if not a typical game. In reality, he played more like something in between the national championship game and the first meeting vs. the Gators in December (7 points on 2-for-6 shooting, 6 rebounds, 4 block and 4 fouls) that season.


Somewhere inbetween = 15.7ppg, 9.6rpg, 3.3blks, 61.6%fg ? 

He had bad games. He had good games. He had average games. Obviously.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Somewhere inbetween = 15.7ppg, 9.6rpg, 3.3blks, 61.6%fg ?
> 
> He had bad games. He had good games. He had average games. Obviously.


That's not what I meant.

My point is that whenever I've read people on this site going on about Greg Oden, they do exactly what you did -- focus on the national championship game vs. Florida and how he played vs. Al Horford and Joakim Noah. Given those two were projected lottery picks, people used Oden's game vs. them as some projection of what he was/could be.

Based on the games in which I saw him play that season, that national championship was more of an aberration.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> noone is drafted based on college performance alone.


True. College performance is huge on a players perception though, especially for guys who were'nt decorated McD's AA's. There's always 1 or 2 guys who skate into the draft off of HS hype and several off of potential, but for the most part alot of people established and cemented themselves and their name based on performance in college. 

Durant had one of the best college resume's ever, also on top of alot of great potential. Oden had a pretty good college career, but looking back was one of those 1 or 2 guys who's stock was higher because of his HS hype. It was assumed that his injuries slowed down his offensive game in college, and because of his injury he was viewed as even more dominant than he actually was. Despite some red flags and question marks, they weren't critiqued as thoroughly because of his immense reputation comming out of HS.



> He averaged 15pts, 10rebs and 3blks his freshman year at Ohio State. He put up 25/12/4 on 10-15 from the field in the championship game against two future NBA starters (Horford and Noah). Noah shot 1-3 from the field and Horford shot 6-15. Oden shut down the paint on these guys and dominated offensively. These are two quality NBA players and Oden made them look amatuer in that game.
> 
> Oden had the wrist thing, and that just sweetened the pot, but even with a bad wrist he was still dominant in college. This isn't a Marvin Williams who didn't even start.


Lol, Did you watch that game? Doesn't sound like it. I've been over this before, but Florida dominated that game. Alot of those numbers came against soft defense from Noah, or against Chris Richards and a freshman Marreesse Speights... Most of the game Horf & Noah were playing soft due to the horrific whistle. Noah couldn't breathe on Oden w/o a foul, while Oden could get away with murder on the other end. It was a terribly unbalanced level of physicality allowed, i'll tell you that much... Florida would've blown them out even worse if the whistle was on Oden like it was against UF's bigs. It was pretty comical and amusing how much they didn't want Oden in foul trouble... But I digress. I mean just observing Oden's foul troubles in league validates my opinion on how horricly unbalanced that game was called...

I didn't take anything substantial away from that game to validate greatness, aside from the refs ability to effectively take one teams bigs out of a game. Defensively, sure he was above average but half of those points were meaningless. They came in a blowout against soft defense or 2nd string bigs... Oden got his, because that's what the refs wanted to make the game at least somewhat watchable for non-Florida/OSU fans.

Marvin was also one of those 1-2 guys who's reputation precedes them, and skated by on their HS hype..


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I noticed that when people mention the legend of Greg Oden vs. Florida in the national championship game, they like to forget that small detail of Florida beating the brakes off of Ohio State twice that season.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I love how the only people bashing Oden's arguably biggest game on the biggest stage he played (on a collegiate level at the very least) versus legit NBA talent is a Florida homer and a guy who obviously despises every fiber of Oden's being.

Oden played well in college, that's undeniable. You can say whatever you want about his showings on an NBA stage, but the dude was a force at OSU. I watched the games for myself, and frankly Najee, I don't much care about your analysis of those games because you have a sorely obvious bias.


----------



## JT

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

reading this thread is an interesting study in psychology.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I have no problem with Greg Oden's performance in the 2007 national championship game. It seems to me that a lot of his groupies act like that was a typical game, or least that is the only game that is brought up in regards to his freshman season.

If that was the typical Oden performance, I can see why he has/had so many overzealous fans. But that wasn't, which is why I find the overzealous overrating of Oden a little odd.

_Let's not do that. - KJ_


----------



## Dornado

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> BTW, GregOden -- do us a favor and imitate your namesake by jumping up and breaking something. You can do us all a favor by removing your stench.


Again with the personal attacks....


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> if you don't think portland could trade oden for a first round pick, TODAY, you're crazy.


Wait, what? What team would trade them a first round pick for him?


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Whining about officiating aside, Oden was clearly better than Horford and Noah, who were polished college players who ended up going 3rd and 9th in the lottery and are having good NBA careers. Oden as a freshman was the best player on a team that went to the national championship. It's hard to say he is worthy of the hype he had, because he had a ton of hype, but he was unquestionably worthy of the #1 pick in the draft.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> *Oden will never be an impact player*
> 
> Charlie is spot on there. Maybe just maybe Portland falters enough to get into the lottery. Snap up a guy like Ed Davis and he will pretty much give you what Oden did, without fouling out almost every game. Sadly they probably end up with a winning record, get ousted in the first or second round and still not have that guy they need in the middle.


hahahahaha.


----------



## PauloCatarino

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Whining about officiating aside, Oden was clearly better than Horford and Noah, who were polished college players who ended up going 3rd and 9th in the lottery and are having good NBA careers. Oden as a freshman was the best player on a team that went to the national championship. It's hard to say he is worthy of the hype he had, because he had a ton of hype, *but he was unquestionably worthy of the #1 pick in the draft*.


I didn't think that people was questioning it.
Eventhough that was a weak draft, a 7 foot center with the *potential *to become a franchise player is NOT something to preclude.
Heck, guys like Rose, Bargnani, Bustgut, Kwame and K-Mart were taken #1 in probable deeper drafts and NOONE thought they could become Franchise Players...


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

K-Mart's draft wasnt deep...AT ALL!


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Role players are people with limited skill and handle one or two specific functions -- Bruce Bowen is an example. Caldwell Jones was a role player. Moreover, it's laughable you're calling Thompson a bust. A bust is someone like Darko Milicic, a guy who couldn't be a productive player for the worst team in the NBA.
> 
> Thompson was a natural power forward starting at center putting up those numbers for perennial playoff teams in Portland. Oden's production is more in line with Erick Dampier's. So what is Oden if Thompson is a "role player?"


your problem is that you can't even acknowledge that oden is an asset when he is on the court. erick dampier?


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Whining about officiating aside, *Oden was clearly better than Horford* and Noah, who were polished college players who ended up going 3rd and 9th in the lottery and are having good NBA careers. Oden as a freshman was the best player on a team that went to the national championship. It's hard to say he is worthy of the hype he had, because he had a ton of hype, but he was unquestionably worthy of the #1 pick in the draft.


:naughty:

Clearly better than Horford? This is from people who only watch one game or look @ a stat sheet from just one game? Lol, In the summerleague Oden was a non-factor. Talk about a foul a machine, how do you average 9 fouls a game?? Nothing was clear. Horford was a legitimate ROY candidate, Oden was not. Nothing was clear. People who were invested in these teams know their tendencies and know how they play. I know when a player i've watched throughout a season is playing tentative and playing soft. The Florida bigs were playing soft. It's the same with Dwight... You can tell when he's playing aggressive and when he's playing soft due to the whistle, and it's a factor. 

Dont take my word for it, I've only seen practically their entire college career to know how they play. People who watch them one time a year are like zomg Oden dominted two NBA bigs. From my perspective, those guys(particularly Noah) weren't allowed to play, and on the other Oden was getting away with the tacky fouls they couldn't. Whatever, i dont care anymore go tell your Oden tales. It's over.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> :naughty:
> 
> Clearly better than Horford? This is from people who only watch one game or look @ a stat sheet from just one game? Lol, In the summerleague Oden was a non-factor. Talk about a foul a machine, how do you average 9 fouls a game?? Nothing was clear. Horford was a legitimate ROY candidate, Oden was not. Nothing was clear. People who were invested in these teams know their tendencies and know how they play. I know when a player i've watched throughout a season is playing tentative and playing soft. The Florida bigs were playing soft. It's the same with Dwight... You can tell when he's playing aggressive and when he's playing soft due to the whistle, and it's a factor.
> 
> Dont take my word for it, I've only seen practically their entire college career to know how they play. People who watch them one time a year are like zomg Oden dominted two NBA bigs. From my perspective, those guys(particularly Noah) weren't allowed to play, and on the other Oden was getting away with the tacky fouls they couldn't. Whatever, i dont care anymore go tell your Oden tales. It's over.


he said that oden was clearly better than horford and noah *in that single game*.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Wait, what? What team would trade them a first round pick for him?


Lakers would. Suns and Nets have traded their first round picks for cash before too.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> he said that oden was clearly better than horford and noah *in that single game*.


And in college in general.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> :naughty:
> 
> Clearly better than Horford? This is from people who only watch one game or look @ a stat sheet from just one game? Lol, In the summerleague Oden was a non-factor. Talk about a foul a machine, how do you average 9 fouls a game?? Nothing was clear. Horford was a legitimate ROY candidate, Oden was not. Nothing was clear. People who were invested in these teams know their tendencies and know how they play. I know when a player i've watched throughout a season is playing tentative and playing soft. The Florida bigs were playing soft. It's the same with Dwight... You can tell when he's playing aggressive and when he's playing soft due to the whistle, and it's a factor.
> 
> Dont take my word for it, I've only seen practically their entire college career to know how they play. People who watch them one time a year are like zomg Oden dominted two NBA bigs. From my perspective, those guys(particularly Noah) weren't allowed to play, and on the other Oden was getting away with the tacky fouls they couldn't. Whatever, i dont care anymore go tell your Oden tales. It's over.


One game? It was the championship so it was pretty big game. Regardless, it doesn't matter since you want to dismiss it because of some claim to officiating agenda. 

It wasn't just one game. He was better than them the whole year.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Jamel Irief said:


> Lakers would. Suns and Nets have traded their first round picks for cash before too.


He said today. The Nets are not trading no first round picks to the Blazers for Greg Oden. Thorn and Kiki would burst out laughing at the suggestion. Especially in arguably the deepest draft in a while.

Lakers have too many good bigs as is, but I could see them making the move, their pick at that point is a wash. Suns need a big man so yeah, but the thing is Greg Oden as of now, is nothing more than a rental player. A guy you bring in and hope he can play limited minutes and not get injured. The Suns need a starting center, is anyone really confident that this guy can still be a starter in the league?

Boston's another team that'd give up their first round pick for him.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> And in college in general.


Ummm....lol you know this is not true.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

:nonono:


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It's not that bold. Why do people tear down the season Oden had at Ohio State? Yeah he was hurt, but he had a great year and was the best player on the best or 2nd best team the whole season.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Well you are comparing him to two guys that were probably two of the best frontcourt players in college in a long long time, do you know how rare it is to win back to back titles? And to say people are tearing Oden's season down for thinking the more polished and experienced players are better is weird imo.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> He said today. The Nets are not trading no first round picks to the Blazers for Greg Oden. Thorn and Kiki would burst out laughing at the suggestion. Especially in arguably the deepest draft in a while.
> 
> Lakers have too many good bigs as is, but I could see them making the move, their pick at that point is a wash. Suns need a big man so yeah, but the thing is Greg Oden as of now, is nothing more than a rental player. A guy you bring in and hope he can play limited minutes and not get injured. The Suns need a starting center, is anyone really confident that this guy can still be a starter in the league?
> 
> Boston's another team that'd give up their first round pick for him.


any team that is basically guaranteed of making the playoffs would trade their pick to the blazers for oden in a second. teams in the running for the top pick wouldn't consider it at this point.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Oden had a great freshman year year, which is evident by the fact he was an AP First Team All American selection...without playing the first 7 games of the season. 

Also worth mentioning that him and Durant were the first freshman since 1990 to be voted to the team, and only the 3rd and 4th ever.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> any team that is basically guaranteed of making the playoffs would trade their pick to the blazers for oden in a second. teams in the running for the top pick wouldn't consider it at this point.


Lets not get carried away. You are talking about a guy who league wide is recognized as injury prone. There will always be doubts about his health, so why give up a first round pick for a guy that's pretty much a rental? Depending on the draft, they can find contributors that wont give them that much headaches.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GregOden said:


> Oden had a great freshman year year, which is evident by the fact he was an AP First Team All American selection...without playing the first 7 games of the season.
> 
> Also worth mentioning that him and Durant were the first freshman since 1990 to be voted to the team, and only the 3rd and 4th ever.


Noah or Horford never made the team at any point in their college career. Oden also won the best big man award and defensive player of the year. 

Back to the original point, he was not unjustly hyped. Injuries have ruined him.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Yeah, right. Like Indiana (No. 3) couldn't have used Larry Bird instead of Rick Robey. WTFever.


I'm sorry, what part of "...any team patient enough to wait, and with the money to sign him, would have hit the jackpot" are you having trouble understanding?



Najee said:


> We're talking about the same Portland team that had no center after losing Bill Walton in the previous season. You may want to look into the fact that the bulk of Portland's 58 wins in 1977-78 game before Walton went down and the team fell back to earth.


And whose "awesome, rocking #1 pick" couldn't beat out _Bill Walton's backup_ for playing time. Wait a second, haven't people in this very thread criticising the Trailblazers for drafting Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan just because they needed a center? What's the difference between passing over Bird for a mediocre center and passing over Jordan for a mediocre center? I mean isn't Jordan/Bowie simply Bird/Thompson writ large?



Najee said:


> You're selectively doing the hindsight thing and creating your own speculation with Larry Bird, and ignoring the other four teams that did not select Bird in order to make a weak swipe at Thompson. It wasn't like Bird was even a consideration for the top pick, for goodness sakes. You're holding Portland solely accountable for something four other teams did.


Selective hindsight? The reason that teams didn't want to draft Bird was that they were going to have to wait more than a year to get him, _if they got him because he had the option of entering the 1979 draft_. No one disputed that at the time. If there were any chance at all that he would have signed a contract the Pacers would selected him. But there wasn't because Bird wanted to win an NCAA title. 

Boston waited through a ****ty year, with no first round pick at the other end, and had to pay a premium to get Bird to sign a contract. Way back when Auerbach made no bones about the fact that he'd drafted the best player in the 1978 draft while the 1979 Celtics were sucking like Holly Sampson in the back seat of Tiger's Escalade. And there weren't many NBA types that disagreed, they just thought that it would end up being a bad gamble if/when Bird elected to be drafted in 1979.



Najee said:


> I'm aware that Thompson missed his second season in the NBA. I'm also aware this is what Thompson did in his following years


In other words, just like I said, Thompson managed a single season with as many ten rebounds in an era when there were a lot more available to be had. And it's not like Mychal "The Lean Mean Rebounding Machine" Thompson was in Kevin McHale's position (on a great rebounding team), the Blazer's were a below average to poor rebounding team for most of his tenure there. Scream, pound your fists into the ground, and whine all you like. Mychal Thompson was a mediocrity, largely because injury derailed him. In other words, he was as cursed as the rest of the centers that the 'Blazers have ever drafted.

EDIT: However, in defense of his awesome career, he was able to beat out Rick Robey for the center spot on the all rookie team. And when you can beat out an all time great like Rick Robey for an honour you know that your NBA career was an astounding success.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> He said today. The Nets are not trading no first round picks to the Blazers for Greg Oden. Thorn and Kiki would burst out laughing at the suggestion. Especially in arguably the deepest draft in a while.
> 
> Lakers have too many good bigs as is, but I could see them making the move, their pick at that point is a wash. Suns need a big man so yeah, but the thing is Greg Oden as of now, is nothing more than a rental player. A guy you bring in and hope he can play limited minutes and not get injured. The Suns need a starting center, is anyone really confident that this guy can still be a starter in the league?
> 
> Boston's another team that'd give up their first round pick for him.


My point was teams trade first round picks for cash, trading them for a 21 year old solid at worst injury prone center is better than cash.

There is a very slim chance you get a center better than Oden after pick 15. 

Do you know what the Lakers did with their first round pick last year?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Jamel Irief said:


> Do you know what the Lakers did with their first round pick last year?


They sold it to pay Jerry Buss' hooker bills.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Nope, what they'd do with it? They dont really need picks though


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

No, they don't really need picks. But imagine if they could use their pick on Greg Oden. Safe to say he would be a solid upgrade over DJ Mbenga.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Sir Patchwork said:


> It's not that bold. Why do people tear down the season Oden had at Ohio State? Yeah he was hurt, but he had a great year and was the best player on the best or 2nd best team the whole season.


No one's tearing down Oden, the guy was just overhyped. Hearing people exaggerate what he did or who he was just gets annoying after awhile. At that point, it just gets annoying hearing his name. The guy didn't dominate anybody in the Title game, he didn't win any titles. He played well, but there's no need to exaggerate what he did or who he is at this point. Just admit it. 

When someone presents a reasonable, modest picture of who he is or what he did at that time... If it isn't awe inspiring, the zealots get mad and defensive... I mean he's not bad, but he's just not greatness personfied either. Get over it. Tired of hearing the excuses and about how 'supposedly dominant' he was, or how he 'would be'. It's over. It's done. Kid cant stay healthy, and was disapointing when he was. Maybe he'll be back, maybe he wont. No need to exagerate who he was. :nonono:


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> I'm sorry, what part of "...any team patient enough to wait, and with the money to sign him, would have hit the jackpot" are you having trouble understanding?


Except Portland wasn't in that position. The Blazers lost its MVP center Bill Walton in the 1977-78 season, and Walton never played for the Blazers again. The team chose Mychal Thompson with its draft pick, and Thompson slid into Walton's position as well as play power forward. 



E.H. Munro said:


> And whose "awesome, rocking #1 pick" couldn't beat out _Bill Walton's backup_ for playing time.


Thompson replaced Walton and started his entire career in Portland. For his rookie season, Thompson averaged 14.7 points and 8.3 rebounds per game in 29.4 minutes per game while playing alongside Maurice Lucas and Tom Owens. You're not going to suggest that Thompson's rookie season was worse than Greg Oden's.



E.H. Munro said:


> Selective hindsight? The reason that teams didn't want to draft Bird was that they were going to have to wait more than a year to get him, _if they got him because he had the option of entering the 1979 draft_.
> 
> Boston waited through a ****ty year, with no first round pick at the other end, and had to pay a premium to get Bird to sign a contract.
> 
> Way back when Auerbach made no bones about the fact that he'd drafted the best player in the 1978 draft while the 1979 Celtics were sucking like Holly Sampson in the back seat of Tiger's Escalade. And there weren't many NBA types that disagreed, they just thought that it would end up being a bad gamble if/when Bird elected to be drafted in 1979.


So you're holding Portland accountable for not drafting Bird and not Kansas City, Indiana, New York and Golden State because ...? Because the other four teams were in the same position as Boston was. Portland wasn't -- it lost an MVP center and even though it was a solid team the Blazers needed someone to replace Walton.

The reality is none of those teams were going to draft Bird, because they wanted someone who could play right now. And unless Bird had the ability to play center for Portland while at Indiana State, this is a moot point.

Thompson did that for Portland for seven seasons, and did it as an above-average player. You're simply looking for anything to try to call Thompson a bust, when in reality his numbers were similar to what LaMarcus Aldridge is putting up today. Like Aldridge, Thompson was more of a finesse forward who could score and face the basket (though Aldridge has more range).

We obviously are not going to agree on this one. If you want to talk busts, bring up Kwame Brown and Darko Milicic. Guys good for roughly 16 points and 8 rebounds per game like Thompson was in Portland for years and continued to be a solid contributor after he left are not busts. And outside of his injury in his second season (a one-time event), you can't say injuries derailed Thompson's career.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> your problem is that you can't even acknowledge that oden is an asset when he is on the court. erick dampier?


I said Greg Oden's NBA production and profile right now is more similar to Erick Dampier's, who is also another big man known more for grabbing rebounds, defending and being a cumbersome offensive player.

It's not like Oden is in any comparable to a guy like Patrick Ewing, with whom he has been compared in this thread.


----------



## Najee

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Jamel Irief said:


> My point was teams trade first round picks for cash, trading them for a 21 year old solid at worst injury prone center is better than cash.
> 
> There is a very slim chance you get a center better than Oden after pick 15.


Basically, teams that can take a flyer on such a player with a draft pick it doesn't really need it at that point. Maybe a team with a stockpile of draft picks or a playoff-level team that is picking low in the draft.

Kind of a drop for someone his fans were comparing to the all-time greats, isn't it?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> Except Portland wasn't in that position.


Sure they were. Thompson failed to beat out Walton's backup for playing time anyways, they certainly could have waited a year for Bird.




Najee said:


> You're not going to suggest that Thompson's rookie season was worse than Greg Oden's.


I'm flat out saying what we all thought back in the day, Thompson was a mediocrity. Mediocre scorer, mediocre rebounder, mediocre defender, even by the much looser standards of the day. He couldn't manage to win the rookie of the year award, and only got selected to the All-Rookie team because his competition was The Original Big Bindlestiff™.



Najee said:


> So you're holding Portland accountable for not drafting Bird and not Kansas City, Indiana, New York and Golden State because ...? Because the other four teams were in the same position as Boston was. Portland wasn't -- it lost an MVP center and even though it was a solid team the Blazers needed someone to replace Walton.


Was Bird eligible to be drafted? Yes. Did Portland draft him? No. Did Portland have the opportunity to draft him? Yes. Are we discussing Portland's jinxed history in regards the selection of centers? Yes. Is this really so difficult to understand?



Najee said:


> ...unless Bird had the ability to play center for Portland while at Indiana State, this is a moot point.


So you're saying that Portland made the right move in passing up a top ten all time player in selecting a draft bust because the draft bust turned out to be a mediocre center and Portland really needed a center rather another PF? Does that sum up your argument here?



Najee said:


> Thompson did that for Portland for seven seasons, and did it as an above-average player. You're simply looking for anything to try to call Thompson a bust, when in reality his numbers were similar to what LaMarcus Aldridge is putting up today. Like Aldridge, Thompson was more of a finesse forward who could score and face the basket (though Aldridge has more range).


Funny thing is, if we look at the Aldridge draft, we could be justified in calling him a bust if Portland missed out on a much better player to grab him. And, last time I checked, the only better player from that pool was... Brandon Roy. Aldridge is also a much better defensive player than Mychal "Baron von Boards" Thompson was.



Najee said:


> We obviously are not going to agree on this one. If you want to talk busts, bring up Kwame Brown and Darko Milicic. Guys good for roughly 16 points and 8 rebounds per game like Thompson was in Portland for years and continued to be a solid contributor after he left are not busts. And outside of his injury in his second season (a one-time event), you can't say injuries derailed Thompson's career.


#1 picks that turn out to be career mediocrities, selected ahead of a hall of famer simply on the basis of being tall, are busts. Now, I'm cognisant of the fact that a lot of guys from the '78 pool had their careers either ruined by injury (like Phil Ford) or at least quite altered (such as Thompson & Sugar Ray) by them. But, hey, according to you that makes a bust. In the context of Portland it would seem any center drafted #1 by them was doomed to injuries.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Najee said:


> I said Greg Oden's NBA production and profile right now is more similar to Erick Dampier's, who is also another big man known more for grabbing rebounds, defending and being a cumbersome offensive player.
> 
> It's not like Oden is in any comparable to a guy like Patrick Ewing, with whom he has been compared in this thread.


except he does everything materially better than dampier. what they're "known" for is not nearly as relevant as the actual quality of production disparity. 

if you (and others) were more willing to acknowledge the positive things he contributes and the potential he still shows to get better, then your gloating at his injuries would be more tolerable. instead, his injury becomes an excuse to rationalize more why he sucks and you knew it. 

i'm sure most of you have an uncanny ability to pick out which guys who have had a few major injuries will go down again and which ones won't. 

i know things like this don't matter to many, but oden does lead the league in block %, offensive reb %, is 6th in ts%, is +4.2 on/off +/-, and +13.5 production. he's way too foul prone, his offense still needs improvement, but he's very effective when he's on the court, and that is impossible to argue against. and of course, he's injury prone. which of course, everyone predicted. 

people forget ewing missed 51 games his first 2 years, and his team won 46 games combined those 2 years, and won 38 his 3rd year.


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> except he does everything materially better than dampier. what they're "known" for is not nearly as relevant as the actual quality of production disparity.
> 
> if you (and others) were more willing to acknowledge the positive things he contributes and the potential he still shows to get better, then your gloating at his injuries would be more tolerable. instead, his injury becomes an excuse to rationalize more why he sucks and you knew it.
> 
> i'm sure most of you have an uncanny ability to pick out which guys who have had a few major injuries will go down again and which ones won't.
> 
> i know things like this don't matter to many, *but oden does lead the league in block %, offensive reb %, is 6th in ts%, is +4.2 on/off +/-, and +13.5 production.* he's way too foul prone, his offense still needs improvement, but he's very effective when he's on the court, and that is impossible to argue against. and of course, he's injury prone. which of course, everyone predicted.
> 
> people forget ewing missed 51 games his first 2 years, and his team won 46 games combined those 2 years, and won 38 his 3rd year.


Pardon my ignorance but what exactly does that mean?


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

block %, off reb % and ts% can be found at basketball-reference.com. +/- at 82games.com. but in laymans terms, it means he blocks shots with greater frequency than anyone else, rebounds a higher % of offensive rebounds than anyone else, and scores efficiently from the field. his team plays better when he's on the court than when he's off, and he outproduces the other teams big man by a wide margin, when he's on the court.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

*In limited minutes*, because at this rate I can see people already writing the legend of Greg Oden before it takes place. He does put up those stats in limited minutes moreso because he is one of the most foul prone players in the league, and of course he gets spoon fed for pretty much most of his points. So when all is said and done, and people talk about him in the future, dont make it out to sound like he was the best center in the league. He wasn't exactly lighting the leauge on fire.


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> block %, off reb % and ts% can be found at basketball-reference.com. +/- at 82games.com. but in laymans terms, it means he blocks shots with greater frequency than anyone else, rebounds a higher % of offensive rebounds than anyone else, and scores efficiently from the field. his team plays better when he's on the court than when he's off, and he outproduces the other teams big man by a wide margin, when he's on the court.


Oh okay then.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> except he does everything materially better than dampier. what they're "known" for is not nearly as relevant as the actual quality of production disparity.
> 
> if you (and others) were more willing to acknowledge the positive things he contributes and the potential he still shows to get better, then your gloating at his injuries would be more tolerable. instead, his injury becomes an excuse to rationalize more why he sucks and you knew it.


Are you kidding? This thread was created because people vehimittly denied the guy was injury prone. It has nothing to do with gloating in his misfortune and everything to with his ignorant fan base that refuse to acknoledge the glaring red flags that have been present for awhle. Holy ****, wake the **** up. You act like this is personal against Oden. It's one mans evaluation vs the next. People are allowed to be skeptical of the guys capabilities, quit treating Oden like a baby.



> i'm sure most of you have an uncanny ability to pick out which guys who have had a few major injuries will go down again and which ones won't.


Do you even know why this thread was created or are you just talking out of your ass? One guy believed Oden was injury prone while the other guy refused to accept that statement. Because one guy was right and the other too ignorant to acknolwedge it, it's tearing the player down? No. 



> i know things like this don't matter to many, but oden does lead the league in block %, offensive reb %, is 6th in ts%, is +4.2 on/off +/-, and +13.5 production. he's way too foul prone, his offense still needs improvement, but he's very effective when he's on the court, and that is impossible to argue against. and of course, he's injury prone. *which of course, everyone predicted.*


:laugh: no they didn't. 

And all that % is great, but it's a disapointment when he cant stay n the court for more than 24 minutes a night like you said. Nobody said he's a bum, but foul troubles and injuries are two of the things people highlited with him and were flamed and told they were non-issues. They weren't non-issues after all... It's not hate, it's fact. Accept it, learn to cope, and move on. He's okay, but he's not who they though he was


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Personally I think he's a really good rebounder and shot blocker. Probably one of the best in the league.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> *In limited minutes*, because at this rate I can see people already writing the legend of Greg Oden before it takes place. He does put up those stats in limited minutes moreso because he is one of the most foul prone players in the league, and of course he gets spoon fed for pretty much most of his points. So when all is said and done, and people talk about him in the future, dont make it out to sound like he was the best center in the league. He wasn't exactly lighting the leauge on fire.


you don't seem to like to address his impact when he is on the court. he was playing 24 mpg, not 10. 

he's been assisted on 60% of fg's, as opposed to in the 50s for most other big men. but it's not like someone else can just step in and score at the same rate just by getting assisted - he can catch and finish well, and his size and athleticism create opportunities a guy like pryzbilla doesn't get.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> you don't seem to like to address his impact when he is on the court. he was playing 24 mpg, not 10.
> 
> he's been assisted on 60% of fg's, as opposed to in the 50s for most other big men. but it's not like someone else can just step in and score at the same rate just by getting assisted - he can catch and finish well, and his size and athleticism create opportunities a guy like pryzbilla doesn't get.


Already mentioned above that he rebounds well and blocks shot at a good rate, and with him in the middle it makes the Blazers a legit team both on offense and defense, but Oden's offense is mechanical. No post moves whatsoever. He still isn't coordinated down low, I mean there's simply no way you can continually go to him, because he isnt prepared. Defensively, he cant stay on the court long enough, thankfully Pryzbilla isnt a slouch defensively.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Not to bash Oden, but stamina I think was/is something of an issue for him and it's not because of tonsilitis. To think if he could keep the energy & efficiency up playing 35 minutes a night? idk...He was productive when he was on the court, but coming off the bench and playing an energy guy role wasn't really what most invisioned. He was supposed to be THE big man of this era.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Not to bash Oden, but stamina I think was/is something of an issue for him and it's not because of tonsilitis. To think if he could keep the energy & efficiency up playing 35 minutes a night? idk...He was productive when he was on the court, but coming off the bench and playing an energy guy role wasn't really what most invisioned. He was supposed to be THE big man of this era.


he started every game he played this year. he hasn't measured up to his expectations, but he's shown promise and actual production.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> Are you kidding? This thread was created because people vehimittly denied the guy was injury prone. It has nothing to do with gloating in his misfortune and everything to with his ignorant fan base that refuse to acknoledge the glaring red flags that have been present for awhle. Holy ****, wake the **** up. You act like this is personal against Oden. It's one mans evaluation vs the next. People are allowed to be skeptical of the guys capabilities, quit treating Oden like a baby.


it's not personal against oden. it's personal to the extent that people like to have their views validated. but again here you're intertwining "injury prone" with capabilities.



Blue Magic said:


> Do you even know why this thread was created or are you just talking out of your ass? One guy believed Oden was injury prone while the other guy refused to accept that statement. Because one guy was right and the other too ignorant to acknolwedge it, it's tearing the player down? No.


one guy wasn't right. until oden has a degenerative or permanent condition that will hinder his career, there's no right and wrong. 



Blue Magic said:


> :laugh: no they didn't.
> 
> And all that % is great, but it's a disapointment when he cant stay n the court for more than 24 minutes a night like you said. Nobody said he's a bum, but foul troubles and injuries are two of the things people highlited with him and were flamed and told they were non-issues. They weren't non-issues after all... It's not hate, it's fact. Accept it, learn to cope, and move on. He's okay, but he's not who they though he was


his upside is still better than just ok, and his production has been better than ok. he needs to improve alot, but he's still shown solid potential. it's not unlike bynum, in that he's had injuries, and he's shown production in his minutes. and when bynum increased his production to 20 and 12 without gasol this year, it shouldn't have been a huge surprise to anyone. if oden can get his fouls in check, it shouldn't be a surprise if he becomes one of the elite big men in the league. 

again, people get caught up in their own predictions and cling (and hope). i can see oden as a disappointment, be wary of his body, realize it's unlikley he'll ever reach the expectations he had coming into the league, and still see potential to be at least a very, very good player.


----------



## afobisme

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

wrong thread.


----------



## carlos710

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> his upside is still better than just ok, and his production has been better than ok. he needs to improve alot, but he's still shown solid potential. it's not unlike bynum, in that he's had injuries, and he's shown production in his minutes. and when bynum increased his production to 20 and 12 without gasol this year, it shouldn't have been a huge surprise to anyone. if oden can get his fouls in check, it shouldn't be a surprise if he becomes one of the elite big men in the league.


It certainly would be a massive surprise. Bynum always showed good instinct on the offensive side, Oden always has looked terrible.

Of course the blazers prefer to give him a chance at scoring 10 ppg than playing their best basketball.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



carlos710 said:


> It certainly would be a massive surprise. Bynum always showed good instinct on the offensive side, Oden always has looked terrible.
> 
> Of course the blazers prefer to give him a chance at scoring 10 ppg than playing their best basketball.


of course, they were scoring 116 pts / 100 possessions with him on the floor this year. 

and in bynum's prior "breakout" year, he averaged 16.4 pts/36, and oden's at 16.7 this year, with comparable ts%. there's no guarantee he can increase and maintain, but it's certainly not a huge stretch.


----------



## GNG

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> again, people get caught up in their own predictions and cling (and hope). i can see oden as a disappointment, be wary of his body, realize it's unlikley he'll ever reach the expectations he had coming into the league, and still see potential to be at least a very, very good player.


This is way, way, way too rational of a viewpoint for a message board.

I'm going to have to ban you.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Lol maybe if people didnt compare him to Ewing or such, there wouldn't be this issue. Greg Oden should be the next Greg Oden not the next so and so, its not like this guy just popped up on the scene, there was full blown hype ever since his highschool days.

You guys realize a similar thing would be happening to LBJ if he wasn't delivering?


----------



## eddymac

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Before he went down with the injury he was playing some solid basketball. He may end up having a solid career, but based on the hype and expectations, having a "solid" career is below the expectations.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> it's not personal against oden. it's personal to the extent that people like to have their views validated. but again here you're intertwining "injury prone" with capabilities.


How so? His foul issues and stamina are legit evaluations of his capability... Nobody needs to 'validate' anything, those are 2 things that have been holding him back since college and summer league that some skeptiks were weary of(regardless of the injuries)... Sure, those are things he can improve and overcome, but up to this point he really hasn't done that with great consistency.

I don't worry about a guy with a history of a couple broken bones. I DO worry about a career of degenerative injuries, and a degenerative knee problem! Three years, three injury riddled seasons of knee problems... That seems like someone I would consider prone to injury? :whoknows:



> one guy wasn't right. until oden has a degenerative or permanent condition that will hinder his career, there's no right and wrong.


The degenerative knee? 



> his upside is still better than just ok, and his production has been better than ok. he needs to improve alot, but he's still shown solid potential. it's not unlike bynum, in that he's had injuries, and he's shown production in his minutes. and when bynum increased his production to 20 and 12 without gasol this year, it shouldn't have been a huge surprise to anyone. if oden can get his fouls in check, it shouldn't be a surprise if he becomes one of the elite big men in the league.
> 
> again, people get caught up in their own predictions and cling (and hope). i can see oden as a disappointment, be wary of his body, realize it's unlikley he'll ever reach the expectations he had coming into the league, and still see potential to be at least a very, very good player.


It would be a surprise. Oden doesn't seem as offensively refined as Bynum was on the block, what happens if he loses some lift? Miracles can happen, If he can overcome his knee's he might be able to string together a solid career. I dont know how he will be affected, but chronic knee's at this age can not be a good thing.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> The degenerative knee?


Though it's impossible to argue that Oden hasn't been injury prone, but saying he has a "degenerative knee" is just plain wrong. If him injuring two separate parts of two separate legs means he has a "degenerative knee", than the same can be said about Bynum. He had a season ending injury to his left knee cap, and then the next season injured his right leg.


----------



## kflo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Blue Magic said:


> How so? His foul issues and stamina are legit evaluations of his capability... Nobody needs to 'validate' anything, those are 2 things that have been holding him back since college and summer league that some skeptiks were weary of(regardless of the injuries)... Sure, those are things he can improve and overcome, but up to this point he really hasn't done that with great consistency.
> 
> I don't worry about a guy with a history of a couple broken bones. I DO worry about a career of degenerative injuries, and a degenerative knee problem! Three years, three injury riddled seasons of knee problems... That seems like someone I would consider prone to injury? :whoknows:


which knee has the degenerative problem?




Blue Magic said:


> The degenerative knee?


which one is that?



Blue Magic said:


> It would be a surprise. Oden doesn't seem as offensively refined as Bynum was on the block, what happens if he loses some lift? Miracles can happen, If he can overcome his knee's he might be able to string together a solid career. I dont know how he will be affected, but chronic knee's at this age can not be a good thing.


if he stays healthy he likely will have a very successful career. and if he doesn't he won't. again, we don't know if he has "chronic knees". he's had different knee injuries on different knees, neither related and neither consistent with a "chronic" issue. does he have a chronic wrist as well? 

oden doesn't seem offensively refined. neither did howard. it will never be elite, but it can be very effective in the right situation. add the other positives he brings to the table, he can be a huge asset. he needs to be on the court, of course.


----------



## roux

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Is this thread finally slowing down?


----------



## Krstic All-Star

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

The fact that it's gone on so long is a tribute to the powers of teh interwebz


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



kflo said:


> which knee has the degenerative problem?


The left one i think... Maybe both now, that he's having another surgury for wear in the right knee.



> if he stays healthy he likely will have a very successful career. and if he doesn't he won't. again, we don't know if he has "chronic knees". he's had different knee injuries on different knees, neither related and neither consistent with a "chronic" issue. does he have a chronic wrist as well?


Like I said, I dont care about broken bones. No, the wrist is not a chronic problem but 3 knee injuries in 3 years?? 


What do you think I should his call his knee situation then?? It's a problem imo, especially when it seems like they are injury's due to wear as opposed to contact induced injuries like the Bynum one...



> oden doesn't seem offensively refined. neither did howard. it will never be elite, but it can be very effective in the right situation. add the other positives he brings to the table, he can be a huge asset. he needs to be on the court, of course.


True. Howard showed excellent stamina and durability though... With elite athleticism that he uses to score. Howard's probably in better physical shape than anybody in the league. 

Oden was supposed to be a power player who beat you with his emmense strength and skill on the block. He's certainly a more than serviceable big man, but his skill still needs to be refined. His athleticism, though good for his size, and physical stamina is/was not on Dwight's level... He needs to find other ways to score with more finesse, because we dont know if/how this is gonna further affect his athleticism. We'll see.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



> How many different ways can you pick the wrong player in a draft? The Blazers are testing those limits with Greg Oden now.
> 
> Let me guess: Portland is going to suspend Oden for the rest of the season, with pay. - Woj Yahoosports


Now if you are wondering what he's talking about, apparently Mr. Oden took some naked pics of himself, sent it to some chick who sent it to the blogs. You be the judge.


----------



## Futurama_Fanatic

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Now if you are wondering what he's talking about, apparently Mr. Oden took some naked pics of himself, sent it to some chick who sent it to the blogs. You be the judge.


:laugh:


----------



## Jakain

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Now if you are wondering what he's talking about, apparently Mr. Oden took some naked pics of himself, sent it to some chick who sent it to the blogs. You be the judge.


Hah that is pretty funny.


----------



## BenDengGo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

damn this guy is stupid. i've seen the pics and they look extremly legit!
this thing will be up in the tabloids in no time.

durant ftw!!!


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



BenDengGo said:


> damn this guy is stupid. i've seen the pics and they look extremly legit!
> this thing will be up in the tabloids in no time.
> 
> durant ftw!!!


Could you authenticate that mole on his left nut personally?


----------



## Ben

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

You guys went searching for the pictures?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

No Coatesvillain somehow knew about it and the rest they say is history


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> Now if you are wondering what he's talking about, apparently Mr. Oden took some naked pics of himself, sent it to some chick who sent it to the blogs. You be the judge.


i bet he has a bigger dick than brook lopez.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

LOL I can't even respond properly, you got so defensive about the guy, you attacked Brook Lopez. You dont even know this guy personally and you stick up for him any and everywhere lol.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



FX™ said:


> You guys went searching for the pictures?


No, I just found it funny the guy said the pictures looked "extremely legit".

It's the internet, people can photoshop anything.


----------



## Dissonance

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> i bet he has a bigger dick than brook lopez.


:wtf: 


Brook is still better anyway.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> LOL I can't even respond properly, you got so defensive about the guy, you attacked Brook Lopez. You dont even know this guy personally and you stick up for him any and everywhere lol.


i figured you'd take that the wrong way.


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

OR you realize how that statement came off and try to play it off as something else


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> OR you realize how that statement came off and try to play it off as something else


really?


----------



## Jakain

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*


----------



## Coatesvillain

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> really?


Don't do it:


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



rocketeer said:


> really?


Humor me, lol what does Brook Lopez' size have to do with Greg Oden supposedly making a fool of himself?


----------



## Ben

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Hahahahahahhahahahahahhaha.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



HB said:


> OR you realize how that statement came off and try to play it off as something else


Wow.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*


----------



## BenDengGo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Jamel Irief said:


> No, I just found it funny the guy said the pictures looked "extremely legit".
> 
> It's the internet, people can photoshop anything.


then tell me this is not him...
must be one hell of a photoshop!!!

pause

it could also be lebron... oden and james' nose do look the same!!! lol


----------



## Ben

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

It is a LeBron type facial expression.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



BenDengGo said:


> then tell me this is not him...
> must be one hell of a photoshop!!!


no idea if it's real or not, but that picture appears to be missing the tattoo on the magazine cover jakain posted from high school.


----------



## Ben

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Probably because his forearm is covering it?


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Some of you should work for the whitehouse, you are quite adept at 'spinning things' lol


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



BenDengGo said:


> damn this guy is stupid. *i've seen the pics and they look extremly legit!*


No ****?

btw, i doubt this is real..


----------



## Diable

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

get back to me when this thread is about a wnba player who doesn't look like Greg Oden or K.D Lang.


----------



## Dissonance

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Well, he wouldn't be apologizing for it if it wasn't him. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4861469


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Waiting for the 'spinsters' to spin it away lol


----------



## Ben

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

1 and a half years ago.


----------



## BenDengGo

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

i'd hire a contract killer to get of of that gold digging scum ex of his.


----------



## Vuchato

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

This goes under the category of "why did i need to know this?"


----------



## HB

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/or...f/2010/01/canzano_after_nude_photos_go_p.html


----------



## Pimped Out

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

The dude broke the first rule of sexting. No pictures of your face.


p.s. did HB take the Oden has a bigger dick than Lopez comment seriously?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Organized Chaos said:


> :wtf:
> 
> 
> Brook is still better anyway.


Yeah, but Oden's longer.


----------



## Blue

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

This thread has took a turn for the worst... Im surprised our pal, Weiner_Time, hasn't reared his head(no pun) with all the homocentric 'big dick' speculation going on in here. uke:


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Pimped Out said:


> The dude broke the first rule of sexting. No pictures of your face.
> 
> *
> p.s. did HB take the Oden has a bigger dick than Lopez comment seriously?*


Of course he did.

If someone was to write out the list of things not to do when sexting, not getting your face in the picture would be rule one, three, and five.


----------



## Bogg

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



GregOden said:


> Of course he did.
> 
> If someone was to write out the list of things not to do when sexting, not getting your face in the picture would be rule one, three, and five.


Are rules two and four not pissing off or mistreating the person(s) who you sent naked pics to?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

I think it might be time to change the thread's name to _Greg Oden: "They Call Me Long Dong Silver"_


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Ok, I just saw the pictures, and I wish I never did. It's all I will think of every time I watch Oden play, fortunately for his injury problems that won't be very often.


----------



## Pimped Out

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



Bogg said:


> Are rules two and four not pissing off or mistreating the person(s) who you sent naked pics to?


Rule 2 is make sure you send it to the right person. Rule 4 is don't piss the person off. Its not higher up on the list because luckily, your face isnt in the picture.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> I think it might be time to change the thread's name to _Greg Oden: "They Call Me Long Dong Silver"_


This may or may not be completely necessary.


----------



## Bogg

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*



E.H. Munro said:


> I think it might be time to change the thread's name to _Greg Oden: "They Call Me Long Dong Silver"_


Thirded. Can someone please make this happen?


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*re: Greg Oden: "They call me Mr. Tripod"*

Is this something that Oden really has to apologize for?


----------



## Bogg

Alright, time for a new poll: By the time his career is over, will Greg Oden have participated in more all-star games or pornography shoots?


----------



## roux

Well I have seen greg odens penis, guess i can cross that one off my bucket list


----------



## Tooeasy

interesting that so many people are actually taking the time to track down pictures of greg odens doodle.


----------



## myst

Tooeasy said:


> interesting that so many people are actually taking the time to track down pictures of greg odens doodle.


It's not homosexual to look at another man's penis if it's just out of curiosity. aperbag:


----------



## BenDengGo

myst said:


> It's not homosexual to look at another man's penis if it's just out of curiosity. aperbag:


this


----------



## unluckyseventeen

myst said:


> It's not homosexual to look at another man's penis if it's just out of curiosity. aperbag:


Who are you trying to convince? Me, or you?


----------



## Jamel Irief

myst said:


> It's not homosexual to look at another man's penis if it's just out of curiosity. aperbag:


Yes, and it's not homosexual if you rub one out while looking at it if you were thinking about Kim Kardashian.


----------



## BlakeJesus

The last two pages are easily the best in this entire thread. Hands down.


----------



## Coatesvillain

Only way I'd see Greg Oden's penis is if I went back to Kazaa to tried to download some mislabeled porn.


----------



## BenDengGo

GregOden said:


> The last two pages are easily the best in this entire thread. Hands down.


they should bring the general to rap infront of oden...

pants on the ground, pants on the ground....looking like a fool with your pants on the ground!!!

lol

i also dont see why he has to appologize to everyone, he's the one getting embarrassed.


----------



## kflo

Pimped Out said:


> p.s. did HB take the Oden has a bigger dick than Lopez comment seriously?


in fairness to HB, everyone else in this thread has at most seen only one of their dicks.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Coatesvillain said:


> ...I... saw Greg Oden's penis... I went back to Kazaa... downloaded some... porn.


Are you sharing or teasing?


----------



## myst

Jamel Irief said:


> Yes, and it's not homosexual if you rub one out while looking at it if you were thinking about Kim Kardashian.


Dude, you forgot to put on the brown bag before you said that.


----------



## HB

Whoa kflo is posting again LOL

As for the comment directed at rocketeer, if you all follow the back and forth that go on between us, you'd probably understand. Coates seems to be the only one who got it though.


----------



## Jamel Irief

HB said:


> Whoa kflo is posting again LOL
> 
> As for the comment directed at rocketeer, if you all follow the back and forth that go on between us, you'd probably understand. Coates seems to be the only one who got it though.


Nope. 

You mistakenly took people's posts as defending Oden, the most misguided of which was your response to rocketeer. Logically you should of assumed he was joking considering it's very unlikely he knows how big Brook Lopez's penis is.


----------



## HB

LOL so you really thought I believed he knew how big both guys were? Come on man!


----------



## Dre




----------



## Dre

I think I'll just keep the quad post, they're all appropriate.


----------



## Pimped Out

i only see 1


----------

