# Washington Wizards workout



## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

Im hearing that the Wizards will have Al Jefferson an Andris Biedrins in for a workout on tuesday. Poor Andris, Im not saying he cant play, but Jefferson will handle him like a rag doll. I hope he doesnt get too exposed like some other European player.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> Im hearing that the Wizards will have Al Jefferson an Andris Biedrins in for a workout on tuesday. Poor Andris, Im not saying he cant play, but Jefferson will handle him like a rag doll. I hope he doesnt get too exposed like some other European player.


He should hold his own. I am more interested in how Jefferson will do against a long shot blocker.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: Washington Wizards workout*



> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> He should hold his own. I am more interested in how Jefferson will do against a long shot blocker.


Me too, especially with all the hype surrounding Biedrins. Jefferson is a beast and plays with a chip on his shoulder. This is kid is like a jerry rice of basketaball. He may not wow you in the workouts or combines, but he produces.


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## KB21 (Jun 20, 2003)

If Al Jefferson measures in at 6-10 like it is being rumored, then look for his stock to skyrocket.

A lot of people use Zach Randolph as a comparison for him, but they are completely different players with completely different bodies. Big Al J isn't this fat, plodding player that a lot want to make him out to be. He's an athletic player that plays above the rim, has range out to 18 feet, and can run the floor. He's a lot closer to being an Amare Stoudemire than he is to being a Zach Randolph.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KB21</b>!
> He's an athletic player that plays above the rim, has range out to 18 feet, and can run the floor. He's a lot closer to being an Amare Stoudemire than he is to being a Zach Randolph.


He's not very athletic, has no range, and plays below the rim! It's incredible how two people can have vastly different opinions on the same player based on, probably, the same viewings of him.

I think Andris will probably impress more in the workout, but yeah, he's probably going to get thrown around a tad. Not to say he's weak, in fact he's pretty huge, not this wiry stick figure some would like you believe, but Al Jefferson has one thing, and that's strength.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

Is Jefferson a beast like Amare was? I mean really aggressive. Also does he play in a weak basketball area?


> It's incredible how two people can have vastly different opinions on the same player based on, probably, the same viewings of him.


 yeah that is what i hate more than anything its hard to decide who to believe if you haven't seen these guys play for yourself.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> Is Jefferson a beast like Amare was? I mean really aggressive. Also does he play in a weak basketball area? yeah that is what i hate more than anything its hard to decide who to believe if you haven't seen these guys play for yourself.


Jefferson isn't as tall, long, or explosive as Amare. He doesn't necessarilly play in a bad area, but he played in a bad division. Like D2 I think. That's horrendous competition for a McDonalds All American.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> Im hearing that the Wizards will have Al Jefferson an Andris Biedrins in for a workout on tuesday. Poor Andris, Im not saying he cant play, but Jefferson will handle him like a rag doll. I hope he doesnt get too exposed like some other European player.


Andris is very long and explosive (7 footer with 34 inch vert) and he is also pretty strong for a skinny looking guy.

Maybe it will be Jefferson getting handled like a rag doll.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Jefferson's HS stats are meaningless in this discussion (as are the other HSers stats from HS). Jefferson has been a beast during the summer circuit for years. Just like the other HS players. You don't earn reputations playing during your HS season, but during the AAU summer tour when you play the best from all over the country and at the Nike and Adidas ABCD camp. 

Jefferson has played well in these things going on 3 years now.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> 
> 
> He's not very athletic, has no range, and plays below the rim!


you must be crazy..you definitely need to go check out his website...dunk after dunk and quite a few long jumpers thrown in for good measure...i think you must have watched some 6'2 white kid from missouri named al jefferson or something because otherwise i have no idea where that impression came from


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

All question about his atleticism should be directed to Mr. Yi Jianlian. He still has Jefferson's sack on his chin from the hoops summit game. Oh yeah and in Boston last week, he was measured 6'9 without shoes.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> All question about his atleticism should be directed to Mr. Yi Jianlian. He still has Jefferson's sack on his chin from the hoops summit game. Oh yeah and in Boston last week, he was measured 6'9 without shoes.


Isn't Yi a couple years younger and just a sack of bones basically? Big deal.

Any link on that Boston measurement?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> All question about his atleticism should be directed to Mr. Yi Jianlian. He still has Jefferson's sack on his chin from the hoops summit game.


This is ridiculously hilarious...

I'm keeping track of quotes of the year, this is one of them.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

Is Big Al worth a lottery pick?


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

My point about Yi is that he is 7'1, not 6'4. For some reason people think Al only dominates guys that are 6'4. IMO he isworth a lotto pick b/c he has only scratched the surface of his ability. Ive seen the guy do some amazing things that you wouldnt believe.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> 
> 
> you must be crazy..you definitely need to go check out his website...dunk after dunk and quite a few long jumpers thrown in for good measure...i think you must have watched some 6'2 white kid from missouri named al jefferson or something because otherwise i have no idea where that impression came from


Actually I think you may be the one that's crazy. A lot of people question his athleticism and range. I've never seen him play, but everything I've read about says that he has marginal athleticism and no range. I went to his website and what I saw was a player with great strength and footwork but average athleticism.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>AZwildcats4</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually I think you may be the one that's crazy. A lot of people question his athleticism and range. I've never seen him play, but everything I've read about says that he has marginal athleticism and no range. I went to his website and what I saw was a player with great strength and footwork but average athleticism.


To not have seen him play and question him seems quite odd against someone who's seen him play quite a bit. 

Al Jefferson is gonna be a 1st rd pick they don't make fat stiffs who play against little weak guys 1st rd picks. He obviously has some athleticism and some range on his shot. 

I've seen him play a few times and am mixed on how good he can be. He is more athletic than you'd think he was if he were just standing and talking to you. He's very competitive. He has post moves and knows how to use his body to get buckets and rebounds. He has 1 of those type bodies like Eddie Curry that could be prone to get outta shape. He has alittle more than Eddie Curry type hops. Curry has hops he's postered quite a few NBA Vets. 

Is he Amare athletically NO but he's plenty athletic enough. 

Quite frankly he might be a better player than Dwight Howard is. Toughness really matters at the NBA level. Jefferson has plenty of it while Howards is questionable.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

So is it fair to say that big Al is just a PF version of eddy curry? Dwight Howard or Al Jefferson?


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## Jockrider (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> My point about Yi is that he is 7'1, not 6'4. For some reason people think Al only dominates guys that are 6'4. IMO he isworth a lotto pick b/c he has only scratched the surface of his ability. Ive seen the guy do some amazing things that you wouldnt believe.


Yes, he consumes the English will fireballs from his eyes and lightning bolts from his arse.


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## KB21 (Jun 20, 2003)

Just ask LaMarcus Aldridge about Al Jefferson. Jefferson completely man handled Aldridge in the AAU circuit last summer when the Jefferson's Jackson Tigers AAU team took on Aldridge's Texas AAU team.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> My point about Yi is that he is 7'1, not 6'4. For some reason people think Al only dominates guys that are 6'4. IMO he isworth a lotto pick b/c he has only scratched the surface of his ability. Ive seen the guy do some amazing things that you wouldnt believe.


Yeah, but he is a skinny younger kid, so what does that prove? For your sake, the way you are always in here hyping up Jefferson, I would hope he does pan out. 

I seriously doubt he will be a lottery pick.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

This thread, the European craze, and the ivan fiasco show everything that is wrong with the NBA today. What is so wrong with a 6'9 manchild who dominates the glass, runs the floor with 100% intensity and effort, physically beats the snot out of his opponent, and dunks everything around the rim? He shouldn't be a first round pick because he isn't 7'0, doesn't shoot 3's, and isn't a one trick pony like josh smith? That is the definition of preposterous. I miss the late 80's and early 90's when guys like Bill Laimbeer would bust their defender in the mouth and shoot a layup with his 10" vertical and lead the league in rebounding. IMO right now al jefferson is a better *basketball player* than amare stoudamire, who won rookie of the year with one move (the dunk). NBA scouts have proven that they know a heck of a lot more about talent and what they need than basketball mock draft fan board junkies, so i'm going to let you all continue to pick and claw at reasons why al j shouldn't go in the mid first round, with rhetoric like his name is pronouncable, he doesn't shoot 3 pointers, he doesn't need to gain weight to be effective in the nba, he isn't soft, he only averaged like 40 and 20 against 6'5 white kids, he isn't athletic enough to dunk more than 5 or 6 times a game which he has been doing since he was 15, and all of the other idiocy i see posted in here when people personally dislike a player. I for one think Shaun Livingston is the most overrated piece of garbage alive, based on how badly he embarrassed himself in the mickey d's game and how fragile and unathletic he appears and how poor of a shooter he seems to be, but I haven't seen him enough to completely make that judgement, so I keep my mouth shut. 

For whoever decided to use the fact that Yi Jianlian is skinny and young as an excuse for Al J dunking in his mouth, it takes athleticism to dunk over a taller more athletic player, and I am pretty sure they are within a year of eachother in age, and Al doesn't have his own commercials and shoe deal, so Yi should use his millions of yen from nike and comission them to develop a shoe to allow him to be more athletic than a non-athletic fat *** like Al Jefferson


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Jefferson had a mediocre workout for the Hornets and has been falling because of other players rising in the mock drafts.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> IMO right now al jefferson is a better *basketball player* than amare stoudamire, who won rookie of the year with one move (the dunk). NBA scouts have proven that they know a heck of a lot more about talent and what they need than basketball mock draft fan board junkies, so i'm going to let you all continue to pick and claw at reasons why al j shouldn't go in the mid first round,


Nuff said right there. Obviously scouts dont agree with you on the Amare thing, otherwise he wouldnt be a possible mid-1st round pick. He'd probably be #1.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Jefferson a better "basketball player" than Amare Stoudemire right now?  C'mon now.


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## Real McCoy (Oct 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> This thread, the European craze, and the ivan fiasco show everything that is wrong with the NBA today. What is so wrong with a 6'9 manchild who dominates the glass, runs the floor with 100% intensity and effort, physically beats the snot out of his opponent, and dunks everything around the rim? He shouldn't be a first round pick because he isn't 7'0, doesn't shoot 3's, and isn't a one trick pony like josh smith? That is the definition of preposterous. I miss the late 80's and early 90's when guys like Bill Laimbeer would bust their defender in the mouth and shoot a layup with his 10" vertical and lead the league in rebounding. IMO right now al jefferson is a better *basketball player* than amare stoudamire, who won rookie of the year with one move (the dunk). *NBA scouts have proven that they know a heck of a lot more about talent and what they need than basketball mock draft fan board junkies, so i'm going to let you all continue to pick and claw at reasons why al j shouldn't go in the mid first round, with rhetoric like his name is pronouncable, he doesn't shoot 3 pointers, he doesn't need to gain weight to be effective in the nba, he isn't soft, he only averaged like 40 and 20 against 6'5 white kids, he isn't athletic enough to dunk more than 5 or 6 times a game which he has been doing since he was 15, and all of the other idiocy i see posted in here when people personally dislike a player.*


You sound very bitter. Why would you would take a cheap shot at the people who post here on this board by saying this? No one here believes they know more than NBA scouts but you are implying that they do. They are merely stating their opinions. Just because you are a big guy, but not good enough to play in the League, don't take it out on the people who post here. Bill Laimbeer isn't coming back and if you want him back, then build a time machine or tell Mark Madsen to become a jerk and get a bad haircut and a jumpshot.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Jefferson had a mediocre workout for the Hornets and has been falling because of other players rising in the mock drafts.


Where did you get that info? Im hearing that the workout went so good, the hornets said, "there is no way you will be around at 18. Good luck in the future son". And I get all my info from the horses mouth if you wanted to know.


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## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

Anyone who says Al Jefferson is an average athlete is wrong. No, he's not ripped and hard, but he is strong as a bull, and for a guy who is that big and strong, he is very coordinated and very explosive. People get caught up in his slightly soft body, but he is a beast.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Real McCoy</b>!
> 
> 
> You sound very bitter. Why would you would take a cheap shot at the people who post here on this board by saying this? No one here believes they know more than NBA scouts but you are implying that they do. They are merely stating their opinions. Just because you are a big guy, but not good enough to play in the League, don't take it out on the people who post here. Bill Laimbeer isn't coming back and if you want him back, then build a time machine or tell Mark Madsen to become a jerk and get a bad haircut and a jumpshot.



I am trying to say that people hate on toughness and physicality and strength and think that versatility and agility and perimeter skills are more important in big men and you have to take a cheap shot at me? Who the **** are you? Hey, I have an idea. Why don't you go **** yourself? This has nothing to do with me or my game and I am doing just fine in the basketball world considering one in a million or whatever players make the league. I will be sure to send you a post card when I am getting paid to play basketball and travelling the world. If things go really well I'll be sure to blow you a kiss from the olympics too. *****.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> IMO right now al jefferson is a better *basketball player* than amare stoudamire, who won rookie of the year with one move (the dunk).


That is simply stupid. Besides that it is Stoudemire.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

I also should clarify on my Amare remark. Amare Stoudemire is going into his 3rd year of the NBA and is born in 1982. Al Jefferson is born in 1985, so Amare's junior year of high school would be the age to compare his talent at that point to Al right now. Amare made huge leaps and bounds in his offensive repoitoire between year one and two. Coming out of high school, he was picked 9th in the draft despite his lack of polish. In his rookie year the majority of his points came from 8 feet from the hoop and closer. It was widely known that he lacked a left hand. I saw him play as a junior and a senior in AAU tournaments and he dominated purely on strength and athletic ability. I think that Al Jefferson right now has better footwork and post moves and a better touch than Amare did in his junior year of high school, and also has a better basketball understanding. Although I consider him athletic, he is nowhere near as athletic as Amare was at that point. In my earlier post I was simply trying to state that I believe Al Jefferson is a talented player who deserves to be picked somewhere between 14-18 and is a lot more talented, athletic, and NBA ready than everyone on here describes him to be, based on reasons such as his height, shooting, and athletic ability, and the competition he has played against. Although he won't come into the NBA this fall and have an Amare Stoudemire rookie of the year type campaign, he is strong, athletic, determined, and agressive enough to play at least 8-15 min per game, and contribute to whatever team drafts him. He will not be a Kendrick Perkins, who I think was a lot less physically prepared than Al is at this point for the NBA.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> That is simply stupid. Besides that it is Stoudemire.



I dont know if thats true, but its not stupid. Check out this link from 2001 where Al Jefferson played up TWO age groups and dominated the competition. Pay attention to the othe names on the all tourney team.

http://www.bobgibbons.net/secure/NewsPub/News/Stories/2001/05/28/99111014415.html


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> In my earlier post I was simply trying to state that I believe Al Jefferson is a talented player who deserves to be picked somewhere between 14-18


As much as we knock Big Al, I agree that he is a mid first rounder, and I don't really think anyone disagrees with that. I'm saying that he doesn't deserve to be a lottery pick.


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## Real McCoy (Oct 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying to say that people hate on toughness and physicality and strength and think that versatility and agility and perimeter skills are more important in big men and you have to take a cheap shot at me? Who the **** are you? Hey, I have an idea. Why don't you go **** yourself? This has nothing to do with me or my game and I am doing just fine in the basketball world considering one in a million or whatever players make the league. I will be sure to send you a post card when I am getting paid to play basketball and travelling the world. If things go really well I'll be sure to blow you a kiss from the olympics too. *****.


The Olympics. :laugh: :laugh: 

Considering this is the 2nd time you are swearing with someone on this board (the first was against Matt Maurer), I would say that your scrubbiness is getting to you. You still sound very bitter. You say you play for High Point and yet I have never seen your name on their athletic site.

I lurk here all the time. You keep hoping and praying for those hoop dreams. Soon enough you will be back in Canada shoveling snow working for the sanitation department.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Real McCoy</b>!
> 
> 
> The Olympics. :laugh: :laugh:
> ...


Remind me on who you are again and why I should care about what you have to say? I am in negotiations with the NZ national team on arranging a tryout with them next summer. I played at HPU last season (2002-2003) but I left the team due to a change in the coaching staff, and I chose to return home over accepting other D1 offers due to a severe illness in the family. I suggest you stop spending all your time sweating me, and focus on establishing a name for yourself because as of right now you are a ***** *** nobody and you need to get off my dick and go and become somebody in your life because your $5 an hour McDonalds job is not accomplishing anything. Keep lurking on this site because your basketball career was over in the 5th grade. Soon enough I will be shovelling snow for the sanitation department? Sorry, I did not mean to pose a threat upon your job security, I will be sure that once I am done my basketball career I come and find your local YMCA and honour your longevity in purchasing monthly passes for pickup games that you severely sucked in and scored one career basket in all of the years that you paid to play there. You are a legend buddy and I worship the ground you walk upon  Get a life and stop sweating me and work on becoming somebody. If you think you are nice and you have liquidatable assets, pm me and I will spring the cost for a plane ticket to wherever you live, and put your money where your mouth is, I will play you in a game of 1 on 1, but not for less than 4 figures in cash. Step up or shut up. PM me if you are all that you think you are. I am tired of these wannabe ballers talking trash and hiding their lackof game behind a screen name. Time to step up or shut up.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> 
> 
> Remind me on who you are again and why I should care about what you have to say? I am in negotiations with the NZ national team on arranging a tryout with them next summer. I played at HPU last season (2002-2003) but I left the team due to a change in the coaching staff, and I chose to return home over accepting other D1 offers due to a severe illness in the family. I suggest you stop spending all your time sweating me, and focus on establishing a name for yourself because as of right now you are a ***** *** nobody and you need to get off my dick and go and become somebody in your life because your $5 an hour McDonalds job is not accomplishing anything. Keep lurking on this site because your basketball career was over in the 5th grade. Soon enough I will be shovelling snow for the sanitation department? Sorry, I did not mean to pose a threat upon your job security, I will be sure that once I am done my basketball career I come and find your local YMCA and honour your longevity in purchasing monthly passes for pickup games that you severely sucked in and scored one career basket in all of the years that you paid to play there. You are a legend buddy and I worship the ground you walk upon  Get a life and stop sweating me and work on becoming somebody. If you think you are nice and you have liquidatable assets, pm me and I will spring the cost for a plane ticket to wherever you live, and put your money where your mouth is, I will play you in a game of 1 on 1, but not for less than 4 figures in cash. Step up or shut up. PM me if you are all that you think you are. I am tired of these wannabe ballers talking trash and hiding their lackof game behind a screen name. Time to step up or shut up.


[strike]Shut up.[/strike]

This is not acceptable. I understand why OtB wrote what he did, but this is plain trolling. I have PM'd the parties involved, and this needs to stop.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

If we can stick to talking about basketball and not have people taking jabs at my game, then consider it done. I think some of the remarks made by people in this thread about me had nothing to do with the topic at hand and were unnecessary and made out of pure jealousy, so I defended myself. Can we go back to talking about Al Jefferson please?


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## BrYaNBaIlEy06 (Jul 15, 2003)

Al Jefferson played basketball for a 3A school if that means anything.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

I don't think that matters much. He dominated in AAU ball against the best players in the country.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

He dominated Biedrins and Chris Garnett this morning, including a monster jam on Biedrins face. I like Biedrins outside shot, but amazingly, Jefferson shot the ball with the most consisitency today. Biedrins look long as hell, but weak. I know he is still young so he will have time to grow. Washingtom will be taking a hard look at Jefferson at 5.


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## Sigma (Apr 26, 2003)

sonny22: Do you think Wizards were happy with Biedrins workout? How did you think - was this good for Biedrins?

Thanks for info.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Im not saying your lying. But I honestly don't believe anything in these workouts anymore. For all we know it could have been the other way around. Where did you hear this from by the way?


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sigma</b>!
> sonny22: Do you think Wizards were happy with Biedrins workout? How did you think - was this good for Biedrins?
> 
> Thanks for info.


Well I expected more out of Biedrins, but you know how the scouts throw the p word around, so its hard to tell what they thought. He is definately long and has pretty good timing, but I didnt see him have a mans body like I heard before. He looked skinny, almost even slumped over like a hunchback, but he showed flashes. I dont think he has met up against anything like Jefferson before. Also Garnett looked very big, but wasnt impressive. I also wanted to see Antonio Burks, but he pulled up lame with an injury.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> He dominated Biedrins and Chris Garnett this morning, including a monster jam on Biedrins face. I like Biedrins outside shot, but amazingly, Jefferson shot the ball with the most consisitency today. Biedrins look long as hell, but weak. I know he is still young so he will have time to grow. Washingtom will be taking a hard look at Jefferson at 5.


Biedrins is not a good shooter at all. He must have just been on today. He is thin but he is a strong as hell. I forget exactly what it was but he benched more or had more reps than everyone at last year's workouts except one guy. Thats amazing for a 7 footer with long arms. I think this kid is a great prospect. A european who's specialties are defense and rebounding. :yes: A frontcourt with Biedrins/Jefferson and Kwame could be a force in the eastern conference in a few years.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> 
> 
> Well I expected more out of Biedrins, but you know how the scouts throw the p word around, so its hard to tell what they thought. He is definately long and has pretty good timing, but I didnt see him have a mans body like I heard before. He looked skinny, almost even slumped over like a hunchback, but he showed flashes. I dont think he has met up against anything like Jefferson before. Also Garnett looked very big, but wasnt impressive. I also wanted to see Antonio Burks, but he pulled up lame with an injury.


How do you know any of this.


Also, why are people so high on Al Jefferson and so Low on Humphries?

Because of his dunk page? To me they seem exteremly similar.


Edit: I mean in terms of strength, athleticism and potential, I realize Humphries has a much better offensive game.


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## Sigma (Apr 26, 2003)

I don't know how credible is sonny22 but i doubt we hear about this workout from anywere else. This year it seems to be really silent - no team websites, no workout schedule of top talents, ne leaks. Really boring. 

Only hope is draftcity and chad ford


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> This thread, the European craze, and the ivan fiasco show everything that is wrong with the NBA today. What is so wrong with a 6'9 manchild who dominates the glass, runs the floor with 100% intensity and effort, physically beats the snot out of his opponent, and dunks everything around the rim? He shouldn't be a first round pick because he isn't 7'0, doesn't shoot 3's, and isn't a one trick pony like josh smith? That is the definition of preposterous. I miss the late 80's and early 90's when guys like Bill Laimbeer would bust their defender in the mouth and shoot a layup with his 10" vertical and lead the league in rebounding. IMO right now al jefferson is a better *basketball player* than amare stoudamire, who won rookie of the year with one move (the dunk). NBA scouts have proven that they know a heck of a lot more about talent and what they need than basketball mock draft fan board junkies, so i'm going to let you all continue to pick and claw at reasons why al j shouldn't go in the mid first round, with rhetoric like his name is pronouncable, he doesn't shoot 3 pointers, he doesn't need to gain weight to be effective in the nba, he isn't soft, he only averaged like 40 and 20 against 6'5 white kids, he isn't athletic enough to dunk more than 5 or 6 times a game which he has been doing since he was 15, and all of the other idiocy i see posted in here when people personally dislike a player. I for one think Shaun Livingston is the most overrated piece of garbage alive, based on how badly he embarrassed himself in the mickey d's game and how fragile and unathletic he appears and how poor of a shooter he seems to be, but I haven't seen him enough to completely make that judgement, so I keep my mouth shut.
> 
> For whoever decided to use the fact that Yi Jianlian is skinny and young as an excuse for Al J dunking in his mouth, it takes athleticism to dunk over a taller more athletic player, and I am pretty sure they are within a year of eachother in age, and Al doesn't have his own commercials and shoe deal, so Yi should use his millions of yen from nike and comission them to develop a shoe to allow him to be more athletic than a non-athletic fat *** like Al Jefferson


:yes:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sigma</b>!
> I don't know how credible is sonny22 but i doubt we hear about this workout from anywere else. This year it seems to be really silent - no team websites, no workout schedule of top talents, ne leaks. Really boring.
> 
> Only hope is draftcity and chad ford


Considering that sonny22 for a while has been telling the merits of Al Jefferson, I don't think he would hop off the train now. He has been here from the start keeping tabs on Jefferson for the posters here.


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## Sigma (Apr 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Considering that sonny22 for a while has been telling the merits of Al Jefferson, I don't think he would hop off the train now. He has been here from the start keeping tabs on Jefferson for the posters here.


Agree 
I didn't question his credibility


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## #1SUNFAN (Jul 17, 2002)

Was Al held back a year? It says he was born 1/4/85, that would make him 19 going on 20 in his rookie year. Anyone know if he started late, or failed in grade school?


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

I still want to know what makes Al jefferson an almost lottery and Kris Humphries a solid midrounder.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>#1SUNFAN</b>!
> Was Al held back a year? It says he was born 1/4/85, that would make him 19 going on 20 in his rookie year. Anyone know if he started late, or failed in grade school?


Every high schooler who has declared so far is born in 1985 according to nbadraft.net. I thought that was strange at first too but both smiths, howard, swift, et al are all born in 1985. Its strange because most rising college seniors are born in 1983.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> I still want to know what makes Al jefferson an almost lottery and Kris Humphries a solid midrounder.


What's the difference between "almost lottery" and "midrounder?" The lottery ends in the middle of the round, so the two sound like the same thing to me


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> 
> 
> Every high schooler who has declared so far is born in 1985 according to nbadraft.net. I thought that was strange at first too but both smiths, howard, swift, et al are all born in 1985. Its strange because most rising college seniors are born in 1983.


I'm going into my third year in college and was born in October of 83, so from about August on in 1985 they are legitimately in that grade. Anything earlier and there was some sort of holding back situation, although it could have been as early as before he even started school.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> 
> What's the difference between "almost lottery" and "midrounder?" The lottery ends in the middle of the round, so the two sound like the same thing to me


Almost lottery means that they have the possibility to crack the lottery, midrounder means they have no chance to go anywhere but 15-30


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> Almost lottery means that they have the possibility to crack the lottery, midrounder means they have no chance to go anywhere but 15-30


Alright thanks, that cleared up the confusion I had -- they just sounded like synonyms to me.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm going into my third year in college and was born in October of 83, so from about August on in 1985 they are legitimately in that grade. Anything earlier and there was some sort of holding back situation, although it could have been as early as before he even started school.


Yeah I'm going into my 4th year and I'm September/83, but I checked the profiles on nbadraft.net and of all the juniors going pro, okafor, roberts, gomes, and harrison are born in 82 and the rest are 83, but if all the high schoolers are 85 then this is irrelevant.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

I saw Jefferson play in the Capital Classic and it really looked like the length of some of the players there bothered him. He has a big frame, and I think he may be used to pushing the competition around with it. I did not walk away thinking he was going to be anything special to be honest with you. A couple of other friends of mine noted his high school stats and made some comments about the discrepancy in that and what they were seeing.

I just don't see the Wizards taking him at 5.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> I saw Jefferson play in the Capital Classic and it really looked like the length of some of the players there bothered him. He has a big frame, and I think he may be used to pushing the competition around with it. I did not walk away thinking he was going to be anything special to be honest with you. A couple of other friends of mine noted his high school stats and made some comments about the discrepancy in that and what they were seeing.
> 
> I just don't see the Wizards taking him at 5.



All star games mean little. He needs his touches to get off. He isnt a guard so he doesnt dominate the ball. Also Deangelo Collins outscored Amare Stoudemire in the McDonalds Game. We all se how that turned out.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Amare was also the #1 rated highschooler in his class including Carmelo.
Jefferson isn't.

I can't wait for the Amare - Dwight or Amare - Jefferson matchups. If those guys get playing time that is.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> just don't see the Wizards taking him at 5.


He most definitely will not go that high.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Amare was also the #1 rated highschooler in his class including Carmelo.
> Jefferson isn't.
> 
> I can't wait for the Amare - Dwight or Amare - Jefferson matchups. If those guys get playing time that is.


Jefferson was number 1 until he left nbpa camp early and then the politics started. The experts know who is the best. And not every recruiting service had him ranked number 1. Some had Carmelo at the top. Hindsight is 20/20 so when they saw Amare go off in the league, for there credibilty they made him number 1 after the fact. He was consensus top 3 just like Jefferson coming out.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> 
> 
> Jefferson was number 1 until he left nbpa camp early and then the politics started. The experts know who is the best. And not every recruiting service had him ranked number 1. Some had Carmelo at the top. Hindsight is 20/20 so when they saw Amare go off in the league, for there credibilty they made him number 1 after the fact. He was consensus top 3 just like Jefferson coming out.


If the experts know who is best, why is it almost a lock Dwight Howard will go in the top 2 and people have Jefferson everywhere from early teens to late 1st?


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

sonny22 why do you write me privately that Al Jefferson will be better than Amare?

Let everyone get a kick out of it.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> If the experts know who is best, why is it almost a lock Dwight Howard will go in the top 2 and people have Jefferson everywhere from early teens to late 1st?



Because they started hyping Howard and dissing Jefferson. Hyp will get you a long way, but at some point you have to put up or shut up. If you are a basketball fan, you know how many guys are hyped up and dont turn out to be much.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Because they started hyping Howard and dissing Jefferson. Hyp will get you a long way, but at some point you have to put up or shut up. If you are a basketball fan, you know how many guys are hyped up and dont turn out to be much.


Maybe the media has hyped Howard some, but if pretty much everyone is in agreement that Howard will be picked way before Jefferson, I dont think it is a matter of hype. Maybe it is just the truth.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

Being picked ahead of someone, doesnt mean you are a better player. Being projected has a high pick doesnt mean you are a better player. There some college guys that wont get drafted early b/c they dont have the "potential" as Howard. Forget potential give me a player that produces.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Let's just assume Al Jefferson had the physical tools and talent that Amare brought with him coming to the league.
Does he have the special toughness, mentality and work ethic that formed Amare?
I highly doubt it because matured under so special circumstances.

He wasn't just a man among boys because of his physical tools. He was a grown up man coming out of highschool not a teenager.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> sonny22 why do you write me privately that Al Jefferson will be better than Amare?
> 
> Let everyone get a kick out of it.


You obviously missed my question, I wrote you to ask if you had a problem with Al Jefferson. I just made the staement that he would be better than Amare b/c he will be.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I have no problem with Jefferson but the hyping for someone who isn't going to be one of the first 3 highschoolers taken in the draft most likely is pretty annoying.

And you are the only one who is spreading these rumors.

If I would put money on a highschooler winning ROY I would put my money on Josh Smith and not Al Jefferson.

I also don't like Jefferson's website. A highschooler shouldn't have a website like that.

Last year Charlie Villanueva had a website as a highschooler as well but his was much classier.

And lets get real. If Jefferson was anything close to Amare there wouldn't be any questions concerning his draft status. Especially not after all the hype that Amare and Lebron created.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> I have no problem with Jefferson but the hyping for someone who isn't going to be one of the first 3 highschoolers taken in the draft most likely is pretty annoying.
> 
> And you are the only one who is spreading these rumors.
> ...


What's his website?

Can we please stop talking about Amare and Jefferson? The past is the past and the future, we have no clue. All that's happening is we have Jefferson and Amare fans making ridiculous comments comparing the players' past and future.

sonny22, where do you get your info about the workouts?


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## #1SUNFAN (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OwnTheBlocks</b>!
> 
> 
> Every high schooler who has declared so far is born in 1985 according to nbadraft.net. I thought that was strange at first too but both smiths, howard, swift, et al are all born in 1985. Its strange because most rising college seniors are born in 1983.


Late '85 I can understand, but al was born January 1985 and graduated this year. I graduated high school this year and Al is more than a year older than me.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> All star games mean little. He needs his touches to get off. He isnt a guard so he doesnt dominate the ball. Also Deangelo Collins outscored Amare Stoudemire in the McDonalds Game. We all se how that turned out.


Well. He took 10 shots, the most of anyone that played, and he went straight up against Howard a lot of the time, which gave me the impression he was bothered by Howard's length. You are right that All-Star games don't prove anything, but if you are not going to make an impression at one, then you are possibly a system/role player.

Ive seen guys like Carmelo, Amare, Lebron, and Chris Paul at the same event, and they left definite impressions of their skill and talent.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Just a quick question. Does anyone know where I can find a ranking of HS players for PREVIOUS years? Thanks.

FWIW from what I have read Jefferson is moving on up :greatjob: no pun intended, well maybe a little. 

Anyway I have read he could go as early as late lottery. Still he would be behind Howard, Livingston and Smith. But I think this year, moreso than previous years could produce player in the teens or even twenties who are far better than players selsected in the top 10. So I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility for Jefferson to end up as a better pro than Howard.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

People are speaking of Jefferson as if he's some 2nd rd hopeful the kid is projected as a mid 1st rd pick ther are alot of college players not rated that high. 

I watched the Roundball Classic and quite frankly I thought Howard was just average very average. The Marvin Williams kid and Livingtson looked like the only 2 players in the game . 

I could see Jefferson being a better pro than Howard but I also see why Howard's the better prospect. He's longer and more athletic and the league bases alot of its scouting on measurables and Howard has great ones. His skills project future NBA star. 

I think Howards the better prospect but won't neccesarily be the better pro. 

Jeffersonis alot more rugid and those type players sometimes become the better pro's.


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