# Toronto at Cleveland (12/4/04)



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

@









4:30 pm PT, 7:30 pm ET

The Raptors have always played Cleveland tough and despite being on a temporary high after knocking off the Nuggets, the Cavaliers cannot come into this game unfocused. While reports say Carter is playing in pain, it does little to ease the fact he can torch this Cavaliers squad at a moment’s notice (even in games where he starts out slow). Rose is another player to have an eye on; if Carter explodes and Rose is playing well alongside him, things will go downhill fast. The Bosh-Gooden match up should prove interesting. Drew better be careful because Bosh is very long and left-handed. There are interesting match ups all the way down the rosters for both teams.

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*Raptors*










Bosh has the potential to wreck havoc with an all-around game of points, rebounds. If Gooden comes out flat and is a non-factor, Traylor will wind up covering Bosh. But Anderson had a good showing in brief time against the Nuggets and is deserving of more minutes. 

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*Cavaliers*










Teams have been doubling LeBron fast and hard, forcing him to give up the ball. Nobody wants James to get into his rhythm and see single coverage while coming in with full steam. James has a lot of trust in Z and Z should get a lot of looks early (Silas probably believes the Raptors can be attacked low).


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Interesting game. I have a feeling the Raptors are going to come out with a lot of fire after what happened against Boston. Either that or it's going to be a Denver like blowout. 

Carter always seems to play well against us. Hopefully Lebron will notch up the D a bit as both Carter and Rose can go off. You then add Bosh to the mix and a chance of an upset by the Raptors goes up


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## Infante (Oct 4, 2004)

*VS*








*Toronto Raptors (7-10) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (10-6)*

Saturday, December 4, 2004
7:30 pm, Gund Arena
TV: FSOhio, NBALP

*COACHES*















Sam Mitchell / Paul Silas
*PROBABLE STARTERS*
















Rafer Alston / Jeff McInnis















Vince Carter / Ira Newble















Jalen Rose / LeBron James















Chris Bosh / Drew Gooden















Loren Woods / Zydrunas Ilgauskas

*6th MEN*
















Donyell Marshall / Eric Snow

*Players To Watch*
















Vince Carter / LeBron James


*Injury List*

*Cleveland:* Scott Williams, Dajuan Wagner

*Toronto:* Roger Mason, Pape Sow, Alvin Williams



> *Wine and Gold Return Home *
> The Cavaliers took the last game of their three-game West Coast trip, knocking off the Nuggets on Thursday night in Denver. Cleveland now comes home for a pair beginning on Saturday night when they take on Vince Carter and the Raptors. Toronto is in the middle of a six-game road trip. The Cavaliers stand at 10-6, one-half game behind Indiana in the Central Division. The Optimist has a good feeling about the Cavaliers for Saturday's battle, siting the Canadian exhange rate. Game time is 7:30 p.m. ET.


Source




> *The Optimist*
> Cavaliers fans! It’s just me, the Optimist, checking in from overcast Cleveland, Ohio.
> Sorry I wasn’t able to file a report before Thursday’s wonderful blowout in Denver, sports fans. My big office move, along with the Cavaliers playing on the West Coast, has really kicked my butt. The sad thing is, I really had a great feeling about the Nuggets’ game. All afternoon, my mind was aglow with whirling, transient nodes of thought, careening through a cosmic vapor of invention. And yet, time ran out on me. I apologize. And I feel shame.
> 
> ...


Source

*Infante's Keys*

* Continue the 2 man game with Mac and Z. A good number of points come off the double teams on Zydrunas and then the kick out to JMac for three. It works everytime. 

* Contain Rose and Carter. Both players can score several different ways. If we can contain at least one of them, then the game should be in control.



*FINAL THOUGHT :*
Back at the Gund, I smell a big night for Cleveland. After the raping the Cavaliers gave to Denver, they will surely be up, ready and pumped for their return for the Gund. 


Prediction. Cavaliers win 101-89

RealCavsFans


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Loren Woods and Rafer Alston are probably not starting, but I am pretty sure they will still play. (Loren Woods at least)

I think Cleveland should win this game, but Carter plays good against Cleveland, because of all the attention that the Cavs attract, so we'll see what happens.


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## FutureDraftPick (Aug 7, 2004)

Doesn't Traylor do great against the Toronto?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Any big man does.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Apparently Alston vented his anger the other night, and basically said Vince or me has gotta go.... hopefully their club doesn't patch this up right away, because Alston could really burn us with his energy and the 3 pt shot. Rose also plays us tough, and VC might want to "out-do" LBJ. Clev needs to get out to a fast start and plant doubt, and I think the Raps will crumble quickly then. Maybe Silas should put Snow on Alston as soon as he gets in the game......


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

I dont think Alson will play at all after his statements last night and his coaches statement.

If Jeff M doesnt take Milt Paliacio for about 25 then something is wrong. Also the raptors front court is week if Zydrunas cant beat up on Woods-Bosh then something is wrong. And tractor tossing his weight around we should be just fine.

I just hope Anderson V can see some more time i think this kid can really develope into a great player.


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## SteveHartfiel (Jun 8, 2003)

Well guys a bit of good news, Vince is doubtful for the game cause of a flu (??) ... they say food poisoning, so hes "doubtful"... but who knows. Plus the raps bench is unreal this year, and often play better without VC. It will be an interesting game.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Haven't been following Toronto much but who's coming off the Raptors bench nowaday? Peterson, Araujo?


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

And marshall, but he will probaly start tonight. Also Matt Bonner has played pretty well off the bench.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Projected starters for the Raps:

Palacio, Rose, Murray, Bosh, Araujo.

Carter might be out due to the flu/food poisoning (sure...).

No word on whether Skip or Woods will actually even play tonight.


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## FutureDraftPick (Aug 7, 2004)

12-2, Cavs.

Should be an easy win, and the big men should get a lot of points tonight.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

This looks like another beat down game.
Hopefully more playing time for Luke and Anderson


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

End of 1st

Cavaliers - 39
Raptors - 18

Beautiful ball movement and good finds. When the Raptors went into the zone, the Cavaliers kept executing their offense and were not discouraged any. Gooden is off to a great start with his hooks.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I like this Cavs team... this is a game they should dominate, and they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do so far. Last year's Cavs lost too many games like this one. Dominating the easier games is a big step towards becoming an elite team.


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

It looks like it's gonna be a blowout!!!  

39 - 18 at the beginning of the second quarter....


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Wow... when I checked just now, the Cavs were shooting 69% and the Raptors 28%.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

AAArrggh

The second unit has almost completely lost the big lead.

Still up by ten: put this game away


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

According to the Cavs announcer the refs are really helping out the Raptors tonight with some bad calls


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Halftime

Cavaliers - 57
Raptors - 48

Silas needs to tell the team to quit with the deep jumpers and drive more and/or post up. The second unit really did lose the lead, especially when you compare that to the Raptors bench players who were balling out there.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> Halftime
> 
> Cavaliers - 57
> ...


Thanks for the compliements


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

It's getting closer and closer!!! 59-51 at the beginning of the 3rd quarter!!! Everyone who thought that it would be an easy win after the comfortable 39-18 lead have to worry again...


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The lead's nearly gone now: This sucks


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

Yeah, 2 minutes ago it was 59-61 for the cavs, now they established the lead againt to 8 points: 67-59


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The Tractor now with a nice lift off the bench.

Z is getting into foul trouble a lot this year


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

End of 3rd

Cavaliers - 82
Raptors - 74

The Raptors came close to tying the game earlier in the quarter. Cleveland fought back to extend the lead and they need to keep fighting. James had a nice dunk on the break. Nice highlight play.


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

I hope I'm gonna see this James dunk tomorrow at nba.com.....but the game is still close....8 points aren't that much!!! 85-77 Cavs with 9:09 minutes left


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Final

Cavaliers - 105
Raptors - 97

_Boxscore_

That dunk by James was nice. Losing the big lead from early was disappointing but at least the team didn't collapse and lose the game. Several players were strong tonight like James and Gooden.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SteveHartfiel</b>!
> Well guys a bit of good news, Vince is doubtful for the game cause of a flu (??) ... they say food poisoning, so hes "doubtful"... but who knows. Plus the raps bench is unreal this year, and often play better without VC. It will be an interesting game.


Excellant call... unfortunately they almost played TOO good!


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Couple of points... they said McInnis was suffering from flu symptoms... but I tell you what... neither he nor Snow could match up with Alston. 
Rafer passed up numerous shots to try to get assists, and I'm not sure how many turnovers he had, (he stepped out of bounds maybe 3 times and had a number of bad passes)... but off the dribble and off of screens... man, we had nobody to slow him. He almost won the game by himself.

And the way Bonner was playing in the 2nd quarter, I'm surprised they waited so long in the 2nd half to try to get him involved.

LeBron had 17 points in the last 15 minutes, and McInnis had a huge 3 and another runner late in the game which was big, and Silas HAD to stick with the starters much longer than what he wanted to.... our bench did not play well. I think Silas did another bad substitution rotation when we had a big lead. He took out ALL the starters and went with Tractor, AV, Luke, Lucious and Snow... and they lost all the momentum. Silas needs to keep at least 2 starters in with the bench bunch... when will he learn....


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Look I don't want to seem like i'm always criticizing Silas...

But he has to do something about the bench lineups. He can't keep subbing in 5 bench players all at once, we are getting annihilated night in night out in terms of bench production when he does this. 70 to 10 tonight bench points in favor of the Raps. 

In Denver he kept either Lebron, Z, or McGinnis in the games at all times and the bench guys came in and played well. Now he goes back to the platoon system and we got lucky to pull this one out. 

Outside of that, nice to see the team maintain their composure down the stretch and Lebron step up and close the game out for us once again at home.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

It almost sounds like grade school all over again when you only have 3-4 good players and must keep 2 of them on the floor at all times to play.

These are Professional Basketball players, Silas should expect effort and production out of our bench. I mean half of our bench are veterens there is no excuse. Silas cant keep giving bron,z,jeff m 40 minutes a game. 

But on a positive note from the bench Lucius Harris is really picking it up. And i think he would be starting if we werent playing so well. I think Silas doenst want to mess with the starting lineup as we are playing so well now.

And Anderson seems to be playing more. And i like that, did diop see any minutes at all ???

And Luke looked pretty bad out their tonight. That missed layup was terrible and i am not sure if he will ever be able to take anyone to the hoop. Hopefully he can be the next "Thunder" Dan Majerle and just connect from downtown.

Did Sasha/Diop see the floor ?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>LBJ to LJ for 3</b>!
> It almost sounds like grade school all over again when you only have 3-4 good players and must keep 2 of them on the floor at all times to play.
> 
> These are Professional Basketball players, Silas should expect effort and production out of our bench. I mean half of our bench are veterens there is no excuse. Silas cant keep giving bron,z,jeff m 40 minutes a game.


Silas should expect effort and production and he should set up his rotations so that happens!!!!!! You can rest your starters one at time, two at a time, three at a time, etc. There is really no reason to substitute 4-5 bench players unless you have a ridiculously strong second unit like Memphis did last year. Developing players (Jackson, Anderson) and veterans (Harris) do much better with atleast two starters in because 1)continuity is there and not everyone is coming in cold off the bench 2)starters are more talented so some of the more talented players (Z, Lebron) can get easier shots. That doesn't mean the starters have to play the game but they don't have to be all in at the same time


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## Deadlock (Jul 8, 2004)

Great win for us.. with this win and Pacers loss we our officialy in first plcae in the Central.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I guess it was a good game for both teams. 
Cleveland did what they had to do at home, beat a depleated Raptor team. 
And I guess Toronto should be happy with the way they played tonight, and how they fought back, considering that their best player wasn't playing, and that Cleveland is very good at home. 

Good win guys.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Sorry to get in here so late, I didn't have my computer with me. But this was a good win for the Cavaliers, it's always good to beat the teams your supposed to beat. It helps that Vince didn't play, but not as much as it hurt Toronto that Rose didn't go off. It seems that everytime that we lose to Toronto it is Rose that does the damage. The Cavs did a good job keeping him in check as well as Bosh and clearly the Raps had no answer for the Cavs front court.


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