# ROUND 2 GAME 1 THREAD: Lakers @ Spurs, Monday, May 5 6:30 pm PST



## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

*Round 2, Game 1 thread: Lakers @ Spurs, Monday, May 5 6:30 pm PST*

Re-match for the Lakers in round 2.

"Our next series is going to be very difficult and we know it," Phil Jackson said. 

The Lakers eliminated the Spurs from the playoffs each of the last two years, winning eight of nine games. But San Antonio swept Los Angeles 4-0 this season, while earning homecourt advantage throughout the playoffs. 

Can they continue to play like the well-oiled machine they are right now? Will the excellent offensive and defensive execution they displayed in the first series be there in round 2?

Your thoughts?


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Okay here we go my breakdown. 

The regular season series means nothing right now So all the 4-0 talk is irrelevent. 

Keys to victory

-Getting back on defense. Spurs during the regular season pushed the ball down our throats . With Fox playing we got killed in transition. With Fox down we're more athletic and faster so getting back with George should eliminate the fast breaking. 

-Containing Jackson, Ginobilli, and Parker. Kobe can't float when guarding Jackson he can hit the 3 and slash if KObe helps too much like he did against the Wolves. Ginobilli has to be contained by George, he has to close out on his left hand and take way his driving lanes. 

-Fisher has to keep Parker from becoming a hero. He can't allow Parker to do what Hudson did. Parker doesn't have Hudson's stroke but he's deadly getting to the hole. If Fisher can keep Parker from blowing up for big games the Lakers will be in good shape. 

-Lakers have to contain Duncan in the 4th quarters. He's gonna get big numbers But in the 4th the Lakers have to make him indecisive like they did last season. Madsen, Horry and even Samake Walker have to use their fouls wisely and Shaq has to old him in those last few possesions. 

-Kobe has to play playmaker early and not force shots. Bowen and Ginobilli are gonna try and wear him down but passing early and scoring late will be his formula. He said that he's gonna pace himself best thing we could hear as fans because when he does that he is unguardable. 


Final thoughts

Spurs aren't good outside shooters this was exposed against the Suns the Lakers have to pack it in early and close off driving lanes. Late they have to close off jump shots and not allow them, the open looks. They had trouble closing games which is the Lakers specialty. 

*Ginobilli worries me some he has great awareness and heart to take big shots the Lakers have to identify this. He has quick hands also so when Kobe drives he has to be careful. * 

Shaq was hurt playing them last year. This Year Shaq is healthy and should dominate. He has to stay out of foul trouble amd get extra physical. This will take DRob out of the series he doesn't want to play Shaq and will bow out with the sore knee or back and Shaq will be left to play Willis and Rose. Shaq is the key to this series like Kobe was against them last year. 


*Shaq was hurt playing them last year. This Year Shaq is healthy and should dominate. He has to stay out of foul trouble amd get extra physical. This will take DRob out of the series he doesn't want to play Shaq and will bow out with the sore knee or back and Shaq will be left to play Willis and Rose. Shaq is the key to this series like Kobe was against them last year. * 

*Lakers in 6*


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

I think Shaq qill be humoungous and Bryant will keep racking up the assists. Imagine how much Shaq wants to be the one who ends D-Rob's career.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

i was kind of happy when LA went down 2-1 to Minnesota cuz I knew it would get them rolling. The result was one more rusty half and then 2 1/2 fabulous games.

I think the Lakers continue to roll. Game 1 will be big.

lakes need to get to shaq early and often 
then the outside shooters will start droppin' bombs

kobe then can be passin and playin crazy d the whole half and only score w/ in the offense.

in the second half give it to Kobe get the hell outta the way and let him blow it open scoring until he doesnt need to then back to how things were in the 1st half


I am glad the game is on monday cuz i didnt feel like watching basketball this weekend


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## octobertwenty (May 4, 2003)

*game 1*

The only Game One the Lakers have lost during their 3-year reign was against Allen Iverson two years ago... and we all know how that series turned out.

Game one is huge for the Spurs because they have lost all four home games the past two years to the Lakers, and will no doubt have that pressure in the back of their minds.

The Spurs are just like all the other contenders the Lakers have faced during the reign, in that they have been able to post a great record during the regular season, blowing out weak teams and nudging past the big guns, yet having one fatal flaw- the fact that they could beat anyone in the league except the Lakers.

Look at Portland three years ago, Spurs two years ago, Sacramento last year... all great teams that dominated everyone else except Shaq and Kobe. Same story this year.

Magic? Karma? Voodoo? I don't know how Phil does it.

Lakers will win game one, but they better step it up when they go back to Staples, and not fall into a 2-1 hole like they did against Minnesota and Sacramento (last year).


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Geez, I had high hopes for Kobe in this game...but he is ice cold against Bowen once again.

It seems like every time we play SA, no one except for Shaq can hit ONE shot. Wide open or not. Shaq has 3 of our 4 FGs.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Kobe hasn't played this bad since...the last time they played the Spurs.

He's missing wide open 15 footers.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Lakers are going to get blown out. 

22 points with 5 minutes left int he first half. This is just painful to watch. This has to be the worst offensive output I've ever seen.

3 straight turnovers, 2 of which were basically given to the Spurs. I wonder if the Lakers will even get 60 points in the game.


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## hOnDo (Jun 26, 2002)

Dont worry man, he'll get in his groove.


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## Lakers_32_4ever (Dec 30, 2002)

Damian, it will be ok. I have not been too fond of reffing or laker play either.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Kobe needs to be more careful...first of all, his game is ragged and he needs to calm down.

Second, he needs to know who is around him, he accidentally hit Duncan in the eye thrusting his arms at the refs in frustration. He may not be getting the calls, but he needs to calm down. Luckily, Duncan is a class act and he didn't do anything.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

That shot by Willis was all the momentum the Spurs needed to take the game. That stuff always seems to happen against the Lakers. They just never guard anyone in those situations, and opposing teams have hit about 8 of those against them this year.

Also...Kobe was hit on his last shot, the Lakers could be up 37-35 right now. I would be feeling really good about this game, but halfcourt shots always give teams playing against the Lakers some momentum.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

:angel:


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

That shot by Willis was pretty sweet, ala Samaki Walker before halftime in Game 4 against the Kings last year.

Oh wait -- Kevin Willis's shot actually BEAT the buzzer. So I guess it isn't like Samaki's shot at all.  :angel:


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Second, he needs to know who is around him, he accidentally hit Duncan in the eye thrusting his arms at the refs in frustration. He may not be getting the calls, but he needs to calm down. Luckily, Duncan is a class act and he didn't do anything.


Exactly, because if Duncan had a Ron Artest-mentality, then he would have thrown Kobe all over the Alamodome, manhandled him like a rag doll, and Kobe would be lucky to be breathing right now -- no matter how many weights he can lift in his Sprite commercials.

That would have been hilarious if Duncan just annihilated Bryant. C'mon, admit it.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly, because if Duncan had a Ron Artest-mentality, then he would have thrown Kobe all over the Alamodome, manhandled him like a rag doll, and Kobe would be lucky to be breathing right now -- no matter how many weights he can lift in his Sprite commercials.
> ...



Hey, you seen Kobe's latest commercial...He working on his skills in the boxing Ring. Watch out Ron!


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

Watching bowen just hit that 3 im wondering if any1 else knows of another palyer who shot better from behind the arch and from the line for a whole season Its one of the stragnest stat comparisons there is


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, you seen Kobe's latest commercial...He working on his skills in the boxing Ring. Watch out Ron!


Yup. Boxing skills are important to have in the NBA.

Especially when Reggie Miller is bodyslamming you on the hardwood. :laugh:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I hate TNT!!! The Lakers are getting their butts whooped and then the station blacks out!:upset:


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Well, you aren't missing too much, X. Ginobili just made Brian Shaw absolutely EAT IT that last possession. Stole it from him on the rebound, and hit a three in his face four seconds later.

I'm surprised to want to watch this second rate effort by your team. Kobe's getting embarrassed.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

That 6th foul on Shaq was a horrible call. The Lakers can't buy a call. The refs aren't giving them anything.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> That 6th foul on Shaq was a horrible call. The Lakers can't buy a call. The refs aren't giving them anything.


He was all over the guy's back. That's kinda illegal.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Horry's extra smack to Robinson's groin extra was cheap! It was clearly after the foul was called. How unprofessional. :|


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> 
> 
> He was all over the guy's back. That's kinda illegal.


Not really, he was just reaching to get the ball. If you don't push the guy (which he didn't), it's not a foul.

Anyways, the Lakers didn't deserve to win that game, so it doesn't really matter. I just get POed when they give the Spurs all the calls and the Lakers don't get jack----.

There was a couple plays in the 4th where they sent Duncan to the line when he wasn't even touched. I remember one of them being a foul called on Derek Fisher. They said he tapped Duncan on the head. I don't know if Fish can even reach up to Duncan's neck.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Horry's extra smack to Robinson's groin extra was cheap! It was clearly after the foul was called. How unprofessional. :|


Actually, he was just trying to steal the ball. He did it very quick, and his momentum didn't let him hold his arm back. 

Robinson did the very same thing to Horry in the first half, but Robinson hit him in the face so it didn't look so bad.

I notice that no one is talking about that....


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Let me just hit you with this stat...the Spurs shot 35 free-throws and the Lakers only shot 12. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that that can actually be the correct amount of times the Lakers should've gone to the line.


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## ThomasG86 (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Let me just hit you with this stat...the Spurs shot 35 free-throws and the Lakers only shot 12. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that that can actually be the correct amount of times the Lakers should've gone to the line.


Lakers don't attack the hoop like San Antonio does. They settle for jumpers and throw it into Shaq once in a while while the Spurs are constantly working inside.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

******LAKERS FANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT REFS*********

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I GUESS PHIL FORGOT TO SEND THE CHECKS TO THE REF'S LOCKER ROOM TONIGHT HUH?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Let me just hit you with this stat...the Spurs shot 35 free-throws and the Lakers only shot 12. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that that can actually be the correct amount of times the Lakers should've gone to the line.


Hey, now you know how Kings fans felt after game six last year.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Not really, he was just reaching to get the ball. If you don't push the guy (which he didn't), it's not a foul.
> ...


EDIT- Stop with the personal attacks, you should know better by now -Jemel


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Is this series going to be an exact opposite of the first round? Lakers and Wolves couldn't stop each other and now the Spurs and Lakers can't score on each other. All they have still is Duncan in the post. Parker can't shoot so he's useless. Ginobilli was suprisingly effective. It would of been nice to see George chase him in this series.


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Please do not play the ref card, leave that to the intellectually dishonest Sacramento fans. 

Kobe takes that many jumpers and the Spurs have that many shot attempts in the key and you'll get that discrepancy. The Lakers deserved to go to the line more, but the refs hardly decided the game. San Antonio won the game on defense by denying the Laker ball movement and playing man up on everybody. The role players are incapable of creating off the dribble and that shut them down, sharp strategy from Popovich.

I just hope Devean can come back. They can't win this series if they can't defend at 1, 4 and 3. Though for tonight, Fisher played very well on defense.

Lakers have to get Shaq the ball by making 3 and 4 FAR more aggressive passers. If you rely solely on Kobe to create he'll end up creating for himself if the passing lanes are denied. Spurs defensive design is specifically aimed at encouraging Kobe to shoot a ton of shots. The Two Shaq games in the regular season, Kobe had 71 attempts. Did the exact same thing tonight. 

Play the triangle, work the passing angles, get the repost to Shaq. You have to make them pay for solo D on Shaq. You HAVE to do that or the series is over.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I was really surprised they didn't get it down to Shaq more. I honestly can't figure out why he doesn't touch the ball every single play. Over 7 games, he's going to wear down Robinson and the rest like a good full back wears down defensive lines. 

I thought the reffing did favor the Spurs some, but as somebody else montioned, a lot of it had to do with the Spurs attacking the middle. Shaq probably deserves more than 6 FT's, but then calling fouls in regard to Shaq is basically anybody's opinion. He does so much to dislodge opponents and push with his off arm that you could probably legitimately foul him out by half time tonight if you called the game strictly. 

Anyway, George played 31 minutes tonight. I'm pretty curious to see how game 2's rotation looks if he's out. 

It's probably not terribly classy to say, but I'm kind of gratified to see the Lakers finally get hit by a serious injury bug in the playoffs. Portland went without a healthy Pippen, DA and Dale Davis this year. Dirk had his shoulder dislocated. Peja missed a ton of playoff games last year. Just never seemed fair to me that all those thin Lakers teams seem to have near perfect health when the playoffs come around.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

My guess for the game 2 rotation will be-

C- Shaq, Walker
PF- Walker, Madsen
SF- Horry, Kobe
SG- Kobe, Shaw
PG- Fisher, Shaw (maybe Pargo if he gets his late season confidence back)

Bowen isn't a dribble threat so the Lakers can get away with putting Horry at the 3. 

Damn it, they needed George for this series.

And I don't think Parker will do much on Fish all series. He can't shoot. Claxton worries more, he killed the Lakers in the season opener.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Well a very ugly game. Shaq and Kobe didn't get the calls being out shot 35-12 from the line. I thought they were hacked going to the hole continously but it was just that the refs got caught up in the home crowd. B]. It didn't cost the Lakers the game.[/B] . 

Some thoughts on what hurt the Lakers. 

Ginobilli- I was worried about him coming into the series for good reason. He's a glue guy. Doesn't do anything well but makes timely plays. Very opportunistic. Very similar to Mario Elie in that way. He makes clutch plays the Lakers have to identify him as a sore point.

B]Shaq has to be dominant Shaq He has to be the Shaq who closed the Wolves. If he's the Shaq who plays the Spurs big men to a standstill the Lakers are in a world of trouble. He hasn't domnated D Rob in quite sometime. Robinson got 14 and 11 to Shaq's 24 and 21 thats not gonna be enough. Shaq needs to get real physical early to set the tone. He has to force Robinson into foul trouble and make them play Rose and Duncan on him.[/B] 


Kobe I thought stepped up. he took some bad shots but he was aggressive. He has to drive to the hoop more into Duncan and Robinson and get them into foul trouble. Shooting the pull-ups allows them to play without getting into foul trouble and allows Bowen to contest his shots more. Kobe needs to shoot the 3 more also. Shoot less mid range go more long range and to the hoop. Bowen is just waiting for him to shoot the mid range game. Bowen if he gets sucked into the 3's will go for fakes and allow Kobe more room. 

Someone else has to step up. Horry Fisher, Samake Walker, or Rush. We have to play Rush now he can score off the dribble some. He needs to have a shot here. 

Losing George is critical but the lakers still had a chance to win with Kobe's shooting at the end if someone else would have stepped up.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

San Antonio won because they were the better team today.


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Jemel - Postgame interviews Jackson said other players are going to have step up. I translate that to mean Rush and Pargo are getting minutes now. He has no choice.

starters
1 Fisher
2 Shaw
3 Kobe
4 Horry
5 Shaq

6 Madsen
7 Rush
8 Pargo


Parker is a streak shooter. He had uncontested wide open looks, just clanked. Tonight he couldn't buy a hoop, but some nights he'll have it. They don't lose when he gets 20 and he's very capable of doing that.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> My guess for the game 2 rotation will be-
> 
> C- Shaq, Walker
> ...


I agree jemel going bigger with Horry at the three may help. It'll for allow us better rebounding and interior defense. Horry can close out better on Bowen cutting off the 3's. I'd like to see Rush get a sniff though. He may could help. 

Losing George's athleticism is a big blow. I thought he could have been a factor down the stretch in this game. He may have prevented some of those boards and baskets by Ginobilli.


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## Wiggum (Jul 29, 2002)

> Please do not play the ref card, leave that to the intellectually dishonest Sacramento fans.


I'm strangely honored that people like "Sky" here go out of their way to make up brand new insults I've never heard of for people like me to read here on basketballboards.net. Seriously, I like it; it's fun to read what you people have come up with. See, the thing is, I wouldn't ever post some witty zinger like "Sky" did here, not because I have any particular desire to make Laker fans feel better about themselves, but because, well, shucks, I'm just not willing to go to the effort that these devoted Laker fans are going to. I mean, no way would I have the work ethic to set aside my busy schedule to come up with something as smart sounding as "intellectually dishonest" to throw at the LA crowd here on the boards. I admire your determination to go out of your way to insult people like me whenever possible, "Sky", despite the very obvious fact that no one cares. Kudos.

Anyway, you all know I'd love to see a Lakers-Kings WCF, but then again I'd also love to see the Lakers fall flat on their faces and get swept by San Antonio, so I think I'll remain neutral on this series.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> C- Shaq, Walker
> PF- Walker, Madsen
> SF- Horry, Kobe
> SG- Kobe, Shaw
> ...


Hmmmm. Seems to me this prescription calls for:

a. Horry to play around 40 mpg for at least 4 straight games. I was looking over the game log and it looks like he's done that only 4 times this year (but LA did win three of them). Tough to do for youngsters under playoff intensity, let alone creaky guys like Horry. George may be out for just one game though. 

b. Kobe is going to have to play 48 mpg against Bowen and the rest. I guess he's missed only about 19 minutes of playoff basketball so far, so it's probably not much different from what he was going to do.


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Wiggum - Your brethren went so far as to investigate legal action in the ref whining coming out of the WCF. Moaned about game 6 exclusively while ignoring the considerable riches they received from the refs in games 2 and 5. I call that intellectually dishonest. In the extreme. And since the remember game 6* cry is a widely held belief among Kings fans, player and coaches, it represents a majority view in Sacramento. 

If you happen to fall outside of that majority, props to you and sorry I offended you. If you do hold the remember game 6* "we're the real champs" view, I stand by what I said. I consider that view to be intellectually dishonest and rotten sportsmanship, especially in light of game 5.

And that experience left such a bitter taste in my mouth, I refuse to engage in similar behavior. Leave the ref whining to others.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sky</b>!
> Please do not play the ref card, leave that to the intellectually dishonest Sacramento fans.


Wow, David Alridge and Ralph Nader are King fans?! And they are intellectually dishonest?? What? Nader? Say it ain't so. If you're not a crooked CEO then Nader is on your side, mate.

Apparently Phil Jackson didn't listen to your advise. Heard what he said after the game? Hilarious! Jim Rome called him "pathetic." 

And you know what's more pathetic? Complaining about calls actaully worked for Phil. But this time, I think he has gone too far and have done it too many times. I just have a feeling the refs have starte to tune out his complains.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sky</b>!
> Leave the ref whining to others.


Like Phil Jackson. :lol:


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

Great points by all. Yep, the refs didn't cost the Lakers the game, the Lakers horrid shooting did. Credit the Spurs, they played good D as well. Losing George is not going to help matters, but we may see something special in one of the reserves.... or we may see even worse performances. On to Game 2.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

I find it funny that people who don't usually post here always show up when the Lakers lose and try and legitimize every argument they've ever made about the Lakers. 

For some reason some people can't let go of the WCF from last year. Kings missed the freet throws in their own building. 

Turn the page. Can't act as if the Lakers fans dare say something about bad reffing because the Kings can't shoot free throws. If this game because of bad reffing cost the Lakers the series than they weren't the better team . But I think it won't matter. Lakers will find a ay to win.


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Nader is a Kings fan. Lived in Sac for years.

Aldridge pointed to the sorry officiating in game 2 as well, calling the phantom O fouls on Shaq in the first half a joke, but you must have missed that. Or Kreidler calling the Webber knock it OB Kings ball anyway for the Bibby game winner in 5 as the worst call of the series. Bee's own columnist says your team was the beneficiary of the worst call in the series directly deciding a game. Nary a mention of that though huh?

If Jackson is whining about the officials in July, then you have a parallel to Adelman. Until then, uh no.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sky</b>!
> Nader is a Kings fan. Lived in Sac for years.
> 
> Aldridge pointed to the sorry officiating in game 2 as well, calling the phantom O fouls on Shaq in the first half a joke, but you must have missed that. Or Kreidler calling the Webber knock it OB Kings ball anyway for the Bibby game winner in 5 as the worst call of the series. Bee's own columnist says your team was the beneficiary of the worst call in the series directly deciding a game. Nary a mention of that though huh?
> ...



Nader has openly DENIED he is a Kings fan. Here is the link to one: http://www.kovr13.com/06jun02/060602b.htm Many politicians lived in Sacramento at one time or another, doesn't mean you lived in Sac you're a Kings fan. I lived in LA for a couple yrs, doesn't mean I'm a Laker fan. 

Got it? 

Aldridge said some things about the calls in other games, but he made his feelings known that Game 6 stood out from the rest! ONLY while describing Game 6 did he wrote, "It gave me pause! How can you explain it?" And then he went so far as to quote a LA fan's reaction, "What was up with that game last night? I mean, I'm a Laker fan, so I appreciate the calls. But I don't want to win that way." A Kings fan couldn't have written a more strongly worded description.

As for the Bee columnist, you have to be more specific. I don't recall a Bee writer ever said anything that you've claimed. At least not in the context you suggested. 

As for Jackson's whining, he has far exceeded Adelman. At least according to Aldridge. I'll leave you with what Aldridge has to say about Phil's *****ing, "Only in the NBA does a coach who's won eight championships whine more than a stuck engine valve about refs."

Remember people I have NOT said anything on the calls. If you have a bone with it, take it with Aldridge. Take it with Nader. Take it with people like Sky who drags this rotten out of the sewer and generally just wouldn't let it die. If any of you think it's OK for Laker fans to whine about the officiating, but NOT OK for the other teams. Fine, just go ahead and say it. Say it and then we can move on. 

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I really don't understand why Laker fans just have to drag the Kings into every discussion. It's time to move on people. This fixation is getting unheathly.


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

First, let me say that I do not care to get into these types of ref arguments. I do not care one way or the other. They blow calls all of the time, and it is an unfortunate part of the game. 

But I do remember the columnist in question...

Mark Kreidler: Forget the conspiracy and hit the free throws

By Mark Kreidler -- Bee Sports Columnist
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Thursday, June 6, 2002

Here's a portion of the article:

This is a crisis of competence, not corruption. There is no conspiracy here, and saying there is a thousand times in a row isn't going to change it.

There can be no conspiracy when a series goes to a seventh game and the home team loses not because it didn't get enough free throws, but because it didn't make enough. There can be no conspiracy when the single most egregious blown call of the series goes in favor of the Kings -- wins them Game 5, in fact.

Most people around here remember that call; they just don't speak of it often, because it's inconsistent with their outrage. Chris Webber flat threw the ball out of bounds, simply lost it. He was trying to make a pass and didn't, and the ball should've gone to the Lakers, who had a one-point lead with 11.4 seconds remaining; and the official blew the call and awarded the Kings the ball, setting up Mike Bibby's memorable winning jump shot.

That's not a conspiracy. That's a crummy job by someone who is paid to do better. 

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/3136333p-4178919c.html


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Thank you naesdj. Bullseye.

And that is the crux of it. To whine exclusively about 6 while ignoring 5 is the apex of intellectual dishonesty and the reason for my comment.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>naesdj</b>!
> First, let me say that I do not care to get into these types of ref arguments. I do not care one way or the other. They blow calls all of the time, and it is an unfortunate part of the game.
> 
> But I do remember the columnist in question...
> ...



Ah, I've waited and yet no one noticed the contradiction and inconsistency in using the Sac Bee¡¦s article as an example.

Need a clue? Well, Sky called King fans ¡§intellectually dishonest.¡¨

Hm..kay.

And then he used a Sacramento Bee article written by long-time Kings fan and writer Mark Kreidler as an example that is NOT ¡§intellectually dishonest.¡¨

Hm¡K huh??

So are King fans ¡§intellectually dishonest¡¨ or are they not? Is Mark Kreidler not a Kings fan? Is the Sac Bee not supportive of the Kings? This is like labeling all White hip hoppers pretenders and then calling Eminem a great rapper. 

Of course, this contradiction and inconsistency and general twisting and re-arranging of facts to fit one's argument is nothing new to Laker fans. They may not have invented it, but they have sure grown accustomed to it. If Sky's post was on the Bulls¡¦ board, someone would have spotted it a long while ago.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly, because if Duncan had a Ron Artest-mentality, then he would have thrown Kobe all over the Alamodome, manhandled him like a rag doll, and Kobe would be lucky to be breathing right now -- no matter how many weights he can lift in his Sprite commercials.
> ...


LOL, but he doesn't have a Ron Artest-like mentality...he has a Phil Simmon's-like mentality.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sky</b>!
> Thank you naesdj. Bullseye.
> 
> And that is the crux of it. To whine exclusively about 6 while ignoring 5 is the apex of intellectual dishonesty and the reason for my comment.



You do noticed that I've not offered one word on my opinion of the officiating, on any game, right?

You wanna know why?

Cuz it's BORING! Let it go. Who cares about who thinks about what on it and when or how.

Just let it go. We're in the 2nd round of the playoffs and Laker fan wants to drag last year's officiating in it. 

Why?? Seriously. Why???


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>beb0p</b>!
> As for Jackson's whining, he has far exceeded Adelman. At least according to Aldridge. I'll leave you with what Aldridge has to say about Phil's *****ing, "Only in the NBA does a coach who's won eight championships whine more than a stuck engine valve about refs."



HAHAHAHAHA! He says one thing and suddenly he's "whined" more than Adelman?!

GO HOME!!!:yes:


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh no! It's the [strike]Homer[/strike] King!

Whatever you say, Damian Necronamous. Whatever you say. As long as you don't reply to any of my post in the future. Whatever you say mate.


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Bebop - Kreidler's take is not at all reflective of the vast majority position held by Kings fans, players and coaches. One Kings baord is so far in denial they even question whether Webber even knocked the ball out. And all of them march to the beat of the Remember Game 6* bs. I have talked with ONE Kings fan on a board who agrees that 2 and 5 were a joke and need to be measured against 6. The rest, denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

The point was raised because Kings fans, players, coaches whining during and after the WCF is the absolute gold standard. Using that as a reference point should create the necesary revulsion to thereby prevent ref whining by Laker fans, we should know better after what we were forced to experience from the megamyops last summer all summer. That hall of fame level of incessant whining will not be forgotten and should serve as a reminder to all of us.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sky</b>!
> Bebop - Kreidler's take is not at all reflective of the vast majority position held by Kings fans, players and coaches. One Kings baord is so far in denial they even question whether Webber even knocked the ball out. And all of them march to the beat of the Remember Game 6* bs. I have talked with ONE Kings fan on a board who agrees that 2 and 5 were a joke and need to be measured against 6. The rest, denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
> 
> The point was raised because Kings fans, players, coaches whining during and after the WCF is the absolute gold standard. Using that as a reference point should create the necesary revulsion to thereby prevent ref whining by Laker fans, we should know better after what we were forced to experience from the megamyops last summer all summer. That hall of fame level of incessant whining will not be forgotten and should serve as a reminder to all of us.



I sincerely doubt it is even possible to correctly judge what is the vast majority position of Kings fans. Mark Kreidler is a Kings fan. There are many Kings fans who share his view. And there are many non-Kings fans who shared the views of Aldridge and Nader. To blame it all on the Kings fans is lazy-thinking that smacked of Rush Limbaugh.

And besides. Who's to say Aldridge and Nader is absolutely wrong while Kreidler is absolutely right? I won't. And you are in no position to.

If you want to raise the point of whining. Just look at the Laker's coach. I'm NOT saying the officiating is good or bad. But y'all who want to raise this point of whining should read Jim Kite's article on the Whining King himself - Phil Jackson. At one point, Kite described Jackson's antic:

"whining, wheedling and bald-faced lying." 

Great stuff. You should check it out:

http://www.sportserver.com/basketball/nba/story/880921p-6139968c.html


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