# Convince Me #1 (2010 Draft)



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

It has been a while since I've done one of these threads. Up first for the 2010 draft is:

*Convince me that is a wise for a team to invest millions of dollars and a top 4 draft pick in DeMarcus Cousins*


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Well even with the ecenomy down a few million isnt much for an NBA team/owner to pay for a player as talented as Cousins. I mean what is THAT unstable about him that everyone thinks he is gonna combust? A few incidents but nothing browraising, imo


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

More than the money is the opportunity cost of a top 4 pick. Drafting him that high is banking on him being a cornerstone of the franchise.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

NBA rookie contracts are only guaranteed for 2 years. I look at it this way, I'd rather have Cousins no matter what over 90% of the bigs in this league at what they are paid, regardless of how much of a hothead he may be. You rather have Mark Blount, Jermaine O'Neal, Samuel Dalembert, Eddy Curry, Andris Biedrins, Chris Kaman, Emeka Okafor, Mehmet Okur. 

Cousins is more talented then all of them and will be paid less money for two years. Yes, I would take Cousins without hesitation and let him be my center. He's going to be one of the most hated guys in the league, but when he's destroying other teams, his own fans will love him.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

82 game regular season with a lot of travel and idle time. No one to hold his hand or babysit him. Huge temptations and lots of extra cash. 

Is he going to make the right decisions like hiring a nutritionist and a personal chef to ensure that he is eating right? Is he really going to be destroying teams when he finally has to face grown men that are stronger than him?

Will he care enough to do what it takes be successful?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The guy is 19 years old. The NBA is about talent. If he doesn't, then cut him loose after two years. NBA players don't "HAVE" to be long-term commitments. Cousins has never done anything to be presumed as not a hard worker on the basketball court. This reminds me of how Josh Smith was treated. If a guy is not in the police blotter (i.e. Zach Randolph), I don't care if he's a hothead. I can win with that guy.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

You take a risk every time you walk across the street. Cousins would be a bigger risk than that, but the question is who is left. Evans and Wall will go top two. I would take Favors next myself. I think he's going to be a better NBA player, but if I thought he and Cousins were close I'd take him because of Cousins' volatility. Really I'd be most concerned about Cousins getting along with the guys on his own team. Now After Favors is gone who are you going to put ahead of Cousins. You'd be taking a chance with that guy too. I guess Cole Aldrich is the next big guy...No ****ing way...Really what choice do you have if you don't roll with Cousins?


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

I've thought of him in the mold of Randolph, Boozer, and Jefferson, he's possibly a 20/10 guy in a few years, but not gonna help on defense and could be a cancer. He'll probably be a good player if you can keep him in control, but you'll have to keep him in mind with every player you add to your team, you'll probably need a good defensive center and small forward, good shooters, and guys to feed him. The question is, is he good enough to do that with? i'm not sure. I think I'd probably rather grab another guy like Johnson 4th (after Wall/Turner/Favors) to keep flexibility for future additions, and avoid any potential problems with his attitude.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Diable said:


> Really what choice do you have if you don't roll with Cousins?


i'd rather have greg monroe.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Diable said:


> You take a risk every time you walk across the street. Cousins would be a bigger risk than that, but the question is who is left. Evans and Wall will go top two. I would take Favors next myself. I think he's going to be a better NBA player, but if I thought he and Cousins were close I'd take him because of Cousins' volatility. Really I'd be most concerned about Cousins getting along with the guys on his own team. Now After Favors is gone who are you going to put ahead of Cousins. You'd be taking a chance with that guy too. I guess Cole Aldrich is the next big guy...No ****ing way...Really what choice do you have if you don't roll with Cousins?


I have to agree with this. I have him fourth on my list. There's no way I'm taking him over Wall, Turner or Favors, but he's better than the options that follow.



Vuchato said:


> I've thought of him in the mold of Randolph, Boozer, and Jefferson, he's possibly a 20/10 guy in a few years, but not gonna help on defense and could be a cancer. He'll probably be a good player if you can keep him in control, but you'll have to keep him in mind with every player you add to your team, you'll probably need a good defensive center and small forward, good shooters, and guys to feed him. The question is, is he good enough to do that with? i'm not sure. I think I'd probably rather grab another guy like Johnson 4th (after Wall/Turner/Favors) to keep flexibility for future additions, and avoid any potential problems with his attitude.


Wes Johnson over DeMarcus Cousins? Egads no.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

E.H. Munro said:


> Wes Johnson over DeMarcus Cousins? Egads no.


good point.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

If you'd rather have a 23 year old small forward whose game screams "above average" over a 20 year old center with Cousins' upside I don't know what to tell you.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Ya, Im a Wesley Johnson fan on the college level but no way you take him over Cousins
In fact Im not so sure about Favors either, he has a long way to go still
Thats a little bit like DeRozan vs Ty Evans last year


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

I wrote up a response, but accidentally lost it. Basically I was saying Johnson's shooting and defense are things that every team could use, but mainly I was questioning Cousins. He needs to be in a half court offense as the primary post option, and about half the teams in the lottery already have a good post option or are have a fast paced offense. The first one means the team is limiting Cousins effectiveness or one of the teams best players effectiveness, which means spending a top 4 pick on a rebounder and perhaps slight upgrade in the post, and the second means he would completely alter the teams current style, and I don't think he's good enough for that. And of the handful of teams remaining, they'd have to worry about his personality rubbing off on other players, and I don't see many coaches getting overly excited about getting a guy who's commitment to the team, to improving himself, to playing defense they have to worry about. I wouldn't be surprised if he were to end up like Iverson, in a sense. An elite talent, but due to his playing style and personality, he needs to be surrounded by just the right players and coaches for the team to actually do anything in the playoffs. And at that point you have to wonder if he is good enough to do that with.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

The only good team in the running for a top 5 pick is Utah, a halfcourt team in desperate need of a zone anchor and post scorer (due to Boozer's coming defection). Outside that the rest of the teams suck, and you build your team to fit your best players, not draft players to fit your ****ty personnel. If you have the shot at someone of Cousins' upside, then the presence of Kevin Love or Brooke Lopez shouldn't be deterring you.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Vuchato said:


> I wrote up a response, but accidentally lost it. Basically I was saying Johnson's shooting and defense are things that every team could use, but mainly I was questioning Cousins. He needs to be in a half court offense as the primary post option, and about half the teams in the lottery already have a good post option or are have a fast paced offense. The first one means the team is limiting Cousins effectiveness or one of the teams best players effectiveness, which means spending a top 4 pick on a rebounder and perhaps slight upgrade in the post, and the second means he would completely alter the teams current style, and I don't think he's good enough for that. And of the handful of teams remaining, they'd have to worry about his personality rubbing off on other players, and I don't see many coaches getting overly excited about getting a guy who's commitment to the team, to improving himself, to playing defense they have to worry about. I wouldn't be surprised if he were to end up like Iverson, in a sense. An elite talent, but due to his playing style and personality, he needs to be surrounded by just the right players and coaches for the team to actually do anything in the playoffs. And at that point you have to wonder if he is good enough to do that with.


Wesley Johnson as the 4th pick is career suicide.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Saw this on PTI: What if a guy like Greg Monroe, Evan Turner, Xavier Henry, or Wes Johnson has an incredible tournament and leads his team to the title. Could any of those guys move into the top spot??


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Johnson? Any GM picking him over the other four may as well start sending his resume around the league. Henry or Monroe have much higher bust potentials.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Johnson plays terrific D in the zone but doesnt mean he is gonna be great in the man to man. Should be at least solid but you never know. From what I remember in Iowa State he was nothing special


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I have yet to see Wes Johnson do anythng resembling a basketball play with the ball in his hands. He needs a strong PG to get him offense and he looks very frail to me for SF in the NBA and not real tough.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

These are my biggest problems with Wes Johnson, he has no ability to create his own shot and he can't be any more than 200 or 205. He screams "roleplayer". This year is a bad year for lottery picks outside the top 5.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

If you take out the first half of the 2009-10 season when he was on fire from the perimeter, a very different picture of Wesley Johnson the player emerges. For a player with his freakish length and athleticism, you expect to see a lot more productivity than there actually is. He could make it in the mold of a Shawn Marion, but I don't know if he is mentally capable of being that physical presence. 

Not saying I don't like Johnson as a prospect, just that he doesn't compare to the Top 4 prospects being discussed here. 

As for Cousins, I think he has fantastic one on one defensive instincts, even if he's not a traditional shot blocker. He's also shown the ability to pass out of the double team, and knock down the outside shot. 

People need to realize that Cousins isn't your typical Zach Randolph/Eddy Curry style black hole/defensive liability.


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## Rikki G (Feb 15, 2009)

Jonathan Watters said:


> If you take out the first half of the 2009-10 season when he was on fire from the perimeter, a very different picture of Wesley Johnson the player emerges. For a player with his freakish length and athleticism, you expect to see a lot more productivity than there actually is. He could make it in the mold of a Shawn Marion, but I don't know if he is mentally capable of being that physical presence.
> 
> Not saying I don't like Johnson as a prospect, just that he doesn't compare to the Top 4 prospects being discussed here.
> 
> ...


Ya, but I _hear_ he's a ticking time bomb!


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

If I'm a GM, I'm willing to take a chance on Cousins in the top 5. The talent is there, and if you're picking in the Top 5 a drastic change for the better has got to be worth the gamble. Especially if you can rationalize it as BPA.


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

I am a big hater of Demarcus Cousins because of his constant whiny ***** face on the court, his constant woofing at refs, and his bonehead fouls (which has lessened throughout the year). Dude just seems immature as hell. That said, You'd be fooling yourself as a GM for not drafting the guy as high as 3, especially if your problem with him is said attitude.

The guy is a monster on the glass (something that has been translating well to the NBA), he gets good position and defends surprisingly well on man/man situations. As for scoring he has some moves but IMO he still relies heavily on simply overpowering his defender (my main knock on him besides he *****y attitude). Not to say i blame him, because it's something Favors hasn't even completely figured out yet, but that's the kind of thing that may not translate against bigger more physical NBA defenders. 

He's still a hell of a talent, and like HKF said if he causes problems you could ship his *** out, it's the NBA and rookie contracts, we're not dealing w the NFL, Jamarcus Russell, and those lucrative rookie deals.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Rather Unique said:


> .As for scoring he has some moves but IMO he still relies heavily on simply overpowering his defender (my main knock on him besides he *****y attitude). Not to say i blame him, because it's something Favors hasn't even completely figured out yet, but that's the kind of thing that may not translate against bigger more physical NBA defenders.


I'm not disagreeing _per se_, except to note that at 6'11" 270 there aren't many bigger defenders in the NBA, and some of the few that are, are pretty soft (*cough* Bynum *cough*).


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

E.H. Munro said:


> I'm not disagreeing _per se_, except to note that at 6'11" 270 there aren't many bigger defenders in the NBA, and some of the few that are, are pretty soft (*cough* Bynum *cough*).


point def. taken, as I've thought about that myself. I'd lean to him being successful, even with the power game, but w the way the pros flop (+ his short fuse, foul trouble), and if they aren't 7 foot alot of them are long as hell, i wonder if it will give him some problems, just a point to question. Not really much of a problem at all to be honest, most post players out of HS/or College need to work on their post game anyways.. 

and you had to get a shot up at Bynum huh, EH? :laugh:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Rather Unique said:


> and you had to get a shot up at Bynum huh, EH? :laugh:


If I hadn't been such an early & often pimper of Bynum & Big Al Jefferson I probably wouldn't pick on them so much now that they've made me look bad. :bsmile:


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Every time I watch Cousins he shows a little more. His floor should be 4 and his demeanor is keeping him from being the run away #2. I think he is better than he is showing offensively since he did more in HS. He is a 5 in the league though. Hope he goes to the right situation. Would love to see him in Utah as a NBA fan but not as a Memphis fan.

Keep him away from dsufunctionsl organizations with no established structure.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Cousins is 6'11 with a 7'7 wingspan. This dude picked a guard in the backcourt in the Wake Forest game and then slammed it home. I mean the guy is big-time talent.


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## Daniels (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd break it down by projected ability, opportunity cost, and fit:

1) projected ability
I'm going to limit this to two areas, potential and risk/reward. At the 4th pick, Cousins has the most potential on the board. He's big, has a translatable skill (rebounding), and has the physical tools for the nba. As far as risk/reward, I'd say that he's a relatively risky pick (not really going out on a limb here), not only because of his 'headcase' tag, but also because his work ethic is terrible. At the same time, the reward is a potential franchise cornerstone (or perhaps really good starter), so it balances out a bit.

2) opportunity cost
You need to judge him against what you'd miss out on, not in isolation. The post has him going 4th, so I'm assuming Monroe as the only other possible alternative, unless you have some great job security. I think of Monroe as a safer option, without nearly as much upside, and personally don't think he's going to be all that great (I think he's soft as hell). He'll be a good starter, but not a cornerstone to a franchise. The other option is to trade the pick, which I'm guessing would net a good bit more than the 5th pick (wizards trade) in last years draft.

3) fit
If I'm a struggling team, I draft him. Projected ability puts him as a possible great player, and I'd rather have a chance at that (and not one with terrible odds) then a player with lesser rewards but slightly less risk. Moreover, if you look at opportunity cost, you loose out on older solid players (not what you need) or Monroe (a good piece, but not on the same level potential wise). I suppose I'd consider trading for draft picks and cap space if the right deal came around (perhaps from Oklahoma City, for instance), but that's about it.

If I'm a solid team (say the Jazz somehow end up there) I look at it differently. Risk/reward is more important then potential. I'd possibly trade the pick, however, Monroe could be an option too.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

If KOC passes up a post presence like Cousins for a help defender like Monroe, he'll be deservedly fired when the Jazz are forced to re-sign Okur to be their post defender. Utah needs, desperately, a zone anchor & post scorer, and there's no player like that available on the trade market. If I'm Utah I probably grab him #2 and let he & D-Will form the backbone of a great team.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Daniels said:


> I'd break it down by projected ability, opportunity cost, and fit:
> 
> 1) projected ability
> I'm going to limit this to two areas, potential and risk/reward. At the 4th pick, Cousins has the most potential on the board. He's big, has a translatable skill (rebounding), and has the physical tools for the nba. As far as risk/reward, I'd say that he's a relatively risky pick (not really going out on a limb here), not only because of his 'headcase' tag, but also because his work ethic is terrible. At the same time, the reward is a potential franchise cornerstone (or perhaps really good starter), so it balances out a bit.
> ...


Is there any situation where you would take Cousins over Favors?


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## Daniels (Jan 24, 2009)

Yeh, I was assuming Favors would be gone at 4th, but if it were between the two of them, I'd go with Cousins over him if I were Philly or LA (or teams like that, where a center with his potential could possibly thrive). I'd also take him over Favors if I were Utah, if those were my only two options.


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