# Somebody is gettin traded



## MVP_23 (Jan 29, 2006)

with, salmons,peterson,graham,pj tucker,parker,.....dats alot at the 2/3 position somebody gettin traded


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## mr hoopster (Dec 24, 2004)

I think we are over the 15 player limit, aren't we?

On Raptors.com it shows 16 players on our roster, and that doesnt include Salmons or Garbojosa.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/roster/


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

mr hoopster said:


> I think we are over the 15 player limit, aren't we?
> 
> On Raptors.com it shows 16 players on our roster, and that doesnt include Salmons or Garbojosa.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/raptors/roster/


No Alvin Williams, Mike James, Loren Woods, Pape Sow, Darrick Martin, and possibly Andre Barrett.

If we do sign Jorge, we're at 12. 13 with Barrett on the IL.

Ford/Calderon
Salmons/Parker/Tucker
Peterson/Graham
Bosh/Garbajosa/Humphries
Nesterovic/Bargnani


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

MVP_23 said:


> with, salmons,peterson,graham,pj tucker,parker,.....dats alot at the 2/3 position somebody gettin traded


what's wrong with depth?

and PJ tucker may be heading down to the NBDL this year.

Moreover, Sow could be on the IL after his neck surgery.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

With Salmons, I see no reason to re-sign Barrett. Salmons can play a few minutes at the 1 after Ford and Calderon.

PJ Tucker will not be a factor so there's no logjam. Not saying he can't be a NBA baller, but there's no way someone is being dealt to make room for him. He'll just have to ride the pine until there's an opening.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

MVP_23 said:


> with, salmons,peterson,graham,pj tucker,parker,.....dats alot at the 2/3 position somebody gettin traded



What have graham or tucker proven? There are 12 players on a team.... none of them are starters other then Mo... seems perfect sense to have ALL of those on our team.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> What have graham or tucker proven? There are 12 players on a team.... none of them are starters other then Mo... seems perfect sense to have ALL of those on our team.


A little competetion will be nice, they can fight for (and to keep) that starting spot. Mo and Parker will end up starting IMO. Salmons is a solid player, and he'll help the team. He's not gonna be some star or anything though.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

i could actually see the salmons signing as a sign that calderon is available in packages. 

i've never heard BCo mention little jose...and we are almost starting to have some depth at the one.


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## mr hoopster (Dec 24, 2004)

Barrett has been waived: http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=288132


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

D








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I know it's a term seldomly used in Raptorland ( :sour: ) but BC is actually doing what good teams do, and that is to have serviceable players on the floor at all times. Plus, all those internal scrimmages and practices between the players would be beneficial for once (how much could Bosh learn going up against Pape Sow?).

It also gives the rookies (all 4 of them btw) time to adjust to the NBA. Remember how Graham performed being inserted into the starting lineup right away?


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

I doubt Sow returns.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

1Bosh
2Peterson
3Ford
4Graham
5Salmons
6Parker
7Bargnani
8Rasho
9Humphries
10Tucker
11Calderon
12Garbajosa
13Sow IL

what am i missing?


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## Divine Spammer (Jul 11, 2005)

crimedog said:


> i could actually see the salmons signing as a sign that calderon is available in packages.
> 
> i've never heard BCo mention little jose...and we are almost starting to have some depth at the one.


No way Jose is out of town (unless there's a really good deal for him).
This guy can play.


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

bc is ripping our team apart n im startin not to like it

jose is the second best rookie from last year, and he posted better stats in his first year than salmons ever has. if we trade him im gonna officially be off the bc bandwagon


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## Shack (Mar 2, 2006)

southeasy said:


> 1Bosh
> 2Peterson
> 3Ford
> 4Graham
> ...


Alvin? Although I am sure something will be worked out and he will be gone. Slokar may replace Sow.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

SLOKARRRRRRR

i don;t like jose, he didn't look himself after that heel injury... *remembers that one game vs. washington where jose went off*.... meh, trade jose!


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## CrimsonShadows (Jun 12, 2003)

Tucker's probably going to the D-League.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

CrimsonShadows said:


> Tucker's probably going to the D-League.


Screw D-league, he's going to get a nice 2 year contract with Benetton with a very favourable buyout after the first year. :biggrin:


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

we could use tucker in the nba..he's ready. F that.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

evaluate Tucker's play in camp if he loks like how Joey did last year send him to the NBDL, Slokar don't see any room for him, maybe next year if Humphries sucks

12 man roster in no particular order
1Bosh
2Peterson
3Ford
4 Parker
5 Nesterovic
6 Bargnani
7 Calderon
8 Graham
9 garbadjosa
10 Salmons
11 Tucker
12 Humphries


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

C Nesterovic / Sow
PF Bosh / Bargnani / Humphries
SF Peterson / Graham / Garbajosa
SG Parker / Salmons / Tucker
PG Ford / Calderon / Williams

those are all under contract, yes?
(possibly Martin too? or instead of Williams?)

Seems like bigman is an obvious need..
But positions 1-4 look pretty good, 2 deep.
Hell, when Sow's healthy, the center position isnt looking too bad - Bosh and Bargnani should both be able to play there too.
If anyone gets traded, it'll be Williams' expiring contract along with Graham, I'd say. Calderon only goes if another pg comes back (cos williams isnt gonna play, and Salmons isn't good enough a pg to be the main backup there)


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

why all the calderon hate? I think im the only person who sees Calderon as a potential starter in this league? I can see Calderon avging a double double in the leagu if he improves his jumpshot. He was on fire in the beggining of last season, the only thing that slowed him down was the bloody heel injury.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

adhir1 said:


> why all the calderon hate? I think im the only person who sees Calderon as a potential starter in this league? I can see Calderon avging a double double in the leagu if he improves his jumpshot. He was on fire in the beggining of last season, the only thing that slowed him down was the bloody heel injury.


i love calderon as well


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I dunno about averaging a double-double, but I can definitely see Calderon being a player in this league. Should be a great sparkplug for us off the bench this season.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

if he was given 35 mintes a night at the pg i would expect:

12 pts 
10 ast
4 reb
2 stl


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

pmac34 said:


> if he was given 35 mintes a night at the pg i would expect:
> 
> 12 pts
> 10 ast
> ...


10apg is an extremely unrealistic expectation.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> 10apg is an extremely unrealistic expectation.


if you watch jose carefully enough, you would expect at LEAST 8 assists per game
and dont pull out his stats from last year cause his role and minutes were fluctuating (sp?) after december or january

i believe he was averaging about 7 assists a game in 25 minutes at one point


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

pmac34 said:


> if you watch jose carefully enough, you would expect at LEAST 8 assists per game
> and dont pull out his stats from last year cause his role and minutes were fluctuating (sp?) after december or january


Huge difference between 8 and 10 assists per game. Bet you there is at least 5 times more guys that average 8 APG then 10APG over the last 10 years.

It's a big jump




> i believe he was averaging about 7 assists a game in 25 minutes at one point


Nope - at his peak end of December, he was averaging 6.2 over 29.5 minutes a game. That translates to 7.4APG per 35. 

By the end of the year that average was down to 6.8. 

8 is reasonable over 35, but 10 is not.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

How stupid is Colangelo? He wantd Mike James to comve off the bench. He was the Raptors this year he was amazing. Im not that happy with the moves he's made. Bargnani is Rafael Arajuo Jr. Charlie V is a future ALL-STAR! HOW COULD THEY GET RID OF CHARLIE V! I know they needed a point and TJ Ford is a great player but gettin rid of charlie is gunna come back to bite him in the ***. I think the next to go is Mo-Pete. His time is done as a Rap. I love Mo-Pete but its time for him to move on. And why are we talkin about Alvin Williams? He's done. He's finished. I see this team being in the hunt for the eigth spot but missing it unless Bryan and pick up some great player. Everyone he has picked up is Solid. Thats it. Just solid. Solid doesnt make playoffs. If he can dig into the free agent market and pick up some guy that has won in the playoffs before then i see this team doin good. I like the signing of Anthony Parker. I think he is a great addition to the Toronto Raptors organization. Oh and btw...they better get rid of there entrance video with them dancing with the Raptor...Woow..thank god Matt Bonner is out of T.O


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Nope - at his peak end of December, he was averaging 6.2 over 29.5 minutes a game. That translates to 7.4APG per 35.
> 
> By the end of the year that average was down to 6.8.
> 
> 8 is reasonable over 35, but 10 is not.


ummm he was a rookie without a jumpshot. If he can develop a jumpshot defenses will have to tune into him on offense. instead of expecting him to pass. and again he was a rookie, those numbers are equvalent to Chris Paul numbers, i think with more experience he could very easily up those numbers once he really undsertands how the game is played


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> How stupid is Colangelo? He wantd Mike James to comve off the bench. He was the Raptors this year he was amazing. Im not that happy with the moves he's made. Bargnani is Rafael Arajuo Jr. Charlie V is a future ALL-STAR! HOW COULD THEY GET RID OF CHARLIE V! I know they needed a point and TJ Ford is a great player but gettin rid of charlie is gunna come back to bite him in the ***. I think the next to go is Mo-Pete. His time is done as a Rap. I love Mo-Pete but its time for him to move on. And why are we talkin about Alvin Williams? He's done. He's finished. I see this team being in the hunt for the eigth spot but missing it unless Bryan and pick up some great player. Everyone he has picked up is Solid. Thats it. Just solid. Solid doesnt make playoffs. If he can dig into the free agent market and pick up some guy that has won in the playoffs before then i see this team doin good. I like the signing of Anthony Parker. I think he is a great addition to the Toronto Raptors organization. Oh and btw...they better get rid of there entrance video with them dancing with the Raptor...Woow..thank god Matt Bonner is out of T.O


learn how to type, use spell check


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

adhir1 said:


> ummm he was a rookie without a jumpshot. If he can develop a jumpshot defenses will have to tune into him on offense. instead of expecting him to pass. and again he was a rookie, those numbers are equvalent to Chris Paul numbers, i think with more experience he could very easily up those numbers once he really undsertands how the game is played


Ummm... big jump from 6.8 to 10. I'll leave it at that, no matter what his deficiencies are. 

How many guys average 10, in the last 10 years. Kidd, stockton, Nash.... anybody else?


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Mark Jackson?
(not sure)

Dammit, i wanna see the new jerseys.

And a good fast break, Toronto should be awesome to watch next year - lotsa young guys that can run n shoot (sadly, not much D yet).


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Ummm... big jump from 6.8 to 10. I'll leave it at that, no matter what his deficiencies are.
> 
> How many guys average 10, in the last 10 years. Kidd, stockton, Nash.... anybody else?


Could happen, especially if we go really up tempto with a lot of possessions. Mike James had over 6 a game last year in this offence . . .


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## CrimsonShadows (Jun 12, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Ummm... big jump from 6.8 to 10. I'll leave it at that, no matter what his deficiencies are.
> 
> How many guys average 10, in the last 10 years. Kidd, stockton, Nash.... anybody else?


Miller and Bibby also had 10+ Asst Seasons.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Ummm... big jump from 6.8 to 10. I'll leave it at that, no matter what his deficiencies are.
> 
> How many guys average 10, in the last 10 years. Kidd, stockton, Nash.... anybody else?


i really think ur underestimating how good a passer/creator Calderon is, and also how hard it must have been for him to understand the game and the culture of coming to north america, all these factors and he still was one of the top rookies, when he wasnt injured.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

tucker, nesterovic, k-hump & garbajosa are going to help with defense & rebounds this year...our defense will be underrated.


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

10+ ast pg are reserved for the truly elite pass 1st pg, e.g magic, stockton, nash...lets wait until calderon can actually make the starting lineup (?) of an nba team before throwing out such lofty numbers..........


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

southeasy said:


> tucker, nesterovic, k-hump & garbajosa are going to help with defense & rebounds this year...our defense will be underrated.


the raps d is still bad, thou. i suspect nesterovic and parker will help somewhat in that regards...i dont think thats enough of an upgrade thou., that the raps wont still be in the bottom tier in terms of fg% against and rebounding....still, to be somewhat optimistic, its better then the roster we left off with at the end of the 2006 season which would probably be finish dead last again in said categories...


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

no_free_baskets said:


> the raps d is still bad, thou. i suspect nesterovic and parker will help somewhat in that regards...i dont think thats enough of an upgrade thou., that the raps wont still be in the bottom tier in terms of fg% against and rebounding....still, to be somewhat optimistic, its better then the roster we left off with at the end of the 2006 season which would probably be finish dead last again in said categories...


with the foreign influence i would frankly be shocked if they didnt play zone defense. if done right we know it works(world championships and olympics).


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

no_free_baskets said:


> 10+ ast pg are reserved for the truly elite pass 1st pg, e.g magic, stockton, nash...lets wait until calderon can actually make the starting lineup (?) of an nba team before throwing out such lofty numbers..........


andre miller is elite pg?


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

pmac34 said:


> andre miller is elite pg?


nope, but hes still miles better then calderon...miller might have had 1 season over 10 ast a game, (which is more of an anomoly then anything) but fact of the matter is, 7-8 ast. a game is likely to get you in the top 5 in ast. in most yrs...to project stats over and above 7-8 ast. per game, for a guy like calderon, who hasnt even been able to crack the starting lineup on a 27 win team is just nonsensical...raps homerism rearing its ugly head again...


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

CrimsonShadows said:


> Miller and Bibby also had 10+ Asst Seasons.



Definitley not Bibby


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## CrimsonShadows (Jun 12, 2003)

jayisthebest88 said:


> Definitley not Bibby


I stand corrected.

Bibby and J Will both had 2 seasons of 8+ Assist with the Griz.

Miller did have a season of 10.9 with CLE.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Did anybody know how solid Miller was?

This thread got me to look at his career profile. Looks like he's hardly missed a game in the seven or so years he's been in the NBA.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

speedythief said:


> Did anybody know how solid Miller was?
> 
> This thread got me to look at his career profile. Looks like he's hardly missed a game in the seven or so years he's been in the NBA.


very solid stats

converts at a high % and good assists and about 15 ppg
(last i checked was last summer i think)


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

no_free_baskets said:


> nope, but hes still miles better then calderon...miller might have had 1 season over 10 ast a game, (which is more of an anomoly then anything) but fact of the matter is, 7-8 ast. a game is likely to get you in the top 5 in ast. in most yrs...to project stats over and above 7-8 ast. per game, for a guy like calderon, who hasnt even been able to crack the starting lineup on a 27 win team is just nonsensical...raps homerism rearing its ugly head again...


im not a homer

i am 100% confident that if given the opportunity and encouragement, jose will easily get 9+ assists per game


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## CrimsonShadows (Jun 12, 2003)

The number of Assists a player averages has many varible beyond just court vision and pass first mentality. The Bibby and J Will example is a good example of this. They were both able to average 8+ assist in back to back years with the Grizz yet on the Kings neither was able to break 7 assists. 

The reason assists are so rare those days because the game has changed. The game today is about dribble penetration, not passing penetration. The points guards are still making good passes but instead making the assist they are making the pass that leads to the assist or an one on one iso play. 

Instead of the ball being in the hands of the lead guard the majority of the time, the ball today is usually held by the Iversons and Wades of the world. The reason Nash gets so many Assists (aside from skill of course) is because the ball is in this hands most of the time.

If the Raps put the ball in Ford's hands and run every trip down the court he will average great assists numbers. But if we play a half court game... unless Ford can force defenders to respect his shot... his passing lanes will be clamped shut.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

pmac34 said:


> very solid stats
> 
> converts at a high % and good assists and about 15 ppg
> (last i checked was last summer i think)


I'm not talking so much about his other stats, just his games played.


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