# Will Knicks Improve Enough To Cost The Jazz A Good Pick?



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

> Last year, Jazz fans were sure that the Knicks would keep struggling under coach Isiah Thomas, thereby giving Utah a chance at a lottery pick in the 2010 draft. Now, with Mike D'Antoni replacing Thomas, does this change? ... What are the chances of the Jazz getting a top-five pick from the Knicks in two years?
> 
> The Knicks weren't going anywhere under Isiah Thomas and the Jazz's chances of being in the top five or top 10 of the 2010 draft with the pick previously acquired from New York would have improved had he stayed in charge.
> The hiring of Donnie Walsh as team president and Mike D'Antoni as coach is first step toward respectability for the Knicks, which is not good news for the Jazz. Walsh's track record and reputation are impeccable. He's one of the best in the business and was the perfect choice to direct the reconstruction in New York.
> ...



http://www.sltrib.com/jazz/ci_10477824​


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

After this 2008 Knick Offseason, the Jazz is in a better situation for the 2010 pick than Isiah Thomas could have left this Knick Team in. 

*Getting rid of Zach & Marbury in one offseason would have been the best rebuilding process any NBA team could have made this offseason.* 

How come EVERYONE knows about the outcome of having Zach Randolph on their roster EXCEPT our new President Donnie Walsh? here's two sports writers opinions:



> Z-Bo might be the most unwanted 20-10 guy in the NBA. But what makes this daunting for the Knicks is they now have to bring Randolph into camp after quite obviously trying to trade him. He doesn't fit into what Mike D'Antoni plans to do with the style -- run, run and more running -- but the Knicks can't afford to bury Randolph on the bench because it would only further decrease his already plummeting trade value.





> With Memphis out of the conversation, the market of interest in Randolph has pretty much dried up at this point. It is unlikely you will find a team willing to bring in a player with that big of a contract and that much of a character issue -- by the way, not hearing great things about his conditioning level, which is alarming -- just a week before camps open. Right now the Knicks will probably have to get Randolph playing well enough to showcase and wait for a team to have a need at the power forward position.


Having Zach Randolph on the roster forces the coach to put him in the rotation, which is not comfortable for the improvement of C-Eddy Curry 13/4 career who did have a 19/7 season before Zbo arrived. Or PF-David Lee 10/8/1 career who did have a 10/10/1 season before the arrival of Zbo. This only shows that Zbo is more of a distraction to his teammates than Marbury & Francis.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Let me ask you this...*

Are you willing to add a first rounder along with Zach and whoever else is involved just to get rid of him? I hope you are wiser than that. Zach can be a good fit WITH THE RIGHT TEAM. We don't have that team but I promise you there are teams out there that he would fit. Any team where he will absolutely be no better than the 2nd option would be a start. Solid veteran leadership would be a requirement. We will be much better by the time Utah gets our pick, regardless of how we start out early. Book it. Playoffs this year are a possibility.

Sounds like you are reading other teams forums too much. This team has serious talent.

Duhon....solid defender, good shooter, tough and knows how to run a team. He's in the right role. 
JC.......will be a borderline All Star this year
Curry....A return to the form of 2 years ago makes him a top 10 center (this one is on D'Antoni AND Curry)
Zach.....See Curry (These guys cannot be featured at the same time)
Chandler.Should be very good in this system. Will open some eyes around the league this year
Lee......According to JC, is sporting a new confident J out to the 3 line. How good would this make him?
Gallo....Kid is super talented, the question is: How soon?
Nate.....Should be a nightmare for opposing teams with this style
Collins..Not sold on him but may be a solid B/U
The rest...We have a solid, if not spectacular bench this year. 

Conclusion: The team is really as talented right now as most in the East. It really depends on how well D'Antoni can play master chef while mixing all the ingredients.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Let me ask you this...*



alphaorange said:


> Are you willing to add a first rounder along with Zach and whoever else is involved just to get rid of him? I hope you are wiser than that. Zach can be a good fit WITH THE RIGHT TEAM. We don't have that team but I promise you there are teams out there that he would fit. Any team where he will absolutely be no better than the 2nd option would be a start. Solid veteran leadership would be a requirement. We will be much better by the time Utah gets our pick, regardless of how we start out early. Book it. Playoffs this year are a possibility.
> 
> Sounds like you are reading other teams forums too much. This team has serious talent.
> 
> ...


The Knicks have been talented through this entire miserable stretch of seasons they're on right now.

And you're overrating the players you have right now pretty horribly.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Really? Which players have I over-rated?*

I have said none were superstars and a couple had allstar potential. JC's numbers were getting close enough last year and Curry was garnering consideration in the first half of the previous year. So tell me.....which players have I over-rated? BTW, I never said we didn't have talent the previous years. I have always maintained it was a poor system and the players did not "fit".


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

You're implying that the team's 'talent' this year will translate into different results than years past. Which won't happen until both Randolph and Marbury are gone.



> Sounds like you are reading other teams forums too much. This team has serious talent.





> Book it. Playoffs this year are a possibility.


Those are your quotes, are they not? They sound awful overconfident to me.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*It will translate into wins because.......*

D'Antoni is 100 times the coach Thomas was. Thomas was a disaster and those days are gone.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Is Larry Brown a bad coach then? He could only 23 wins of the Knicks. Thomas I believe coached them to 33-35 wins a couple years back.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Is Larry Brown a bad coach then?


At the time...for the Knicks...yes he was.

It wasnt all his fault, his style doesnt mesh with the roster the Knicks had at the time...a bunch of disrespecting *******s


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*You are correct AND there is more to it*

After watching IT's M.O. for the past years, is anybody thinking he didn't contribute to LB's downfall by submarining him vis a vis Marbury? IT is a snake and a lousy coach and it caught up to him.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: Let me ask you this...*



alphaorange said:


> Are you willing to add a first rounder along with Zach and whoever else is involved just to get rid of him? I hope you are wiser than that. Zach can be a good fit WITH THE RIGHT TEAM. We don't have that team but I promise you there are teams out there that he would fit. Any team where he will absolutely be no better than the 2nd option would be a start. Solid veteran leadership would be a requirement. We will be much better by the time Utah gets our pick, regardless of how we start out early. Book it. Playoffs this year are a possibility.
> 
> Sounds like you are reading other teams forums too much. This team has serious talent.
> 
> ...



After all the reseach that was done on the Knicks trading a first round draft pick this offseason, the research came up that the Knicks could only trade the 2012 first round pick this offseason. 

Did'nt you say, *



"We will be much better by the time Utah gets our pick, regardless of how we start out early. Book it. Playoffs this year are a possibility."

Click to expand...

* well if that is true than by 2012 the Knicks should be a 2nd round playoff team with a very late pick. 

All the Knick players you mention above have a big flaw in playing "team-defense" which is needed in the 4th quater to win games. 

Stop thinking that the Knicks have a bigman player 
*Amare Stoudemire *who can average 25 pts, 9 reb, 1 ast, and 1 blk, while running the court for 35 mpg. 
Or a *PG-Steve Nash *that can score 16 pts on 51% fgs while averaging 3 trips to the FT line at 90% shooting, plus dish out 11 assist per game in just 30 minutes. 
And less not forget the strong leadership of the Captain, that plays both Foward spots with ease *"Shawn Matrix Marion"* who has a 10 year career averaging 16 pts, 10 reb, 2 ast, and 1 blk per game while showing leadership on the court for each of "his" players for 37 minutes per game throughout his career.

The Knicks dont have one player on thier Knick roster with the privledge to stand next to any of those three All-Star players mentioned. 
So the thought of coach Dantoni coaching the Knicks like Phoenix is out of the question (its like Memphis Fans believing they will go to the FINALS this season). 
*Now the thought of Dantoni coaching the Knicks like he did in Denver (14-36 record) is more suitable.* 

If the Knicks cant get rid of Zach Randolph contract (not trade for a simular long contract) before July 2010 offseason, the "Donnie Walsh 2010 Plan" was a wasted plan for two years. 

If the Knicks dont make some important moves and changes to players and coaching-staff this regular season and next offseason the Jazz will be sitting comfortably at the "Ping-Pong-Balls" drop after their Postseason games in 2009-10 (two of the Jazz Players received "Gold Medals" this offseason from the USA Team.).


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: You are correct AND there is more to it*



alphaorange said:


> After watching IT's M.O. for the past years, is anybody thinking he didn't contribute to LB's downfall by submarining him vis a vis Marbury? IT is a snake and a lousy coach and it caught up to him.


When Herb Williams coached the last 20 games of 2004-5 season it was clear to every Knick-Fan that we needed a center to go alongside of PF-Kurt Thomas in the starting lineup. The sign and trade for Crawford was a bust that season because the team needed the defensive presence of C-Mutombo and PG-Frank Williams. Crawford & Marbury did not mesh under coach Wilkins or Herb Williams. 

The 2005 offseason trades for Q.Richardson, Curry, and the signing of Jerome James. These 3 lazy players were not healthy for training-camp, and that threw new coach Larry Brown a hook-curb ball from the Defensive Knick roster that he always known (from coach JVG & Chaney) that used to give him problems when he coached Spurs, Indiana, Philly, and Detroit. 
Larry Brown blamed & confronted Franchise Player Marbury for not getting along with all the Knicks defensive players that Isiah traded away to please Marbury. 
Recall Marbury hyped-up statement when Isiah traded for Zach Randolph......


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