# Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis



## TomBoerwinkle#1

My God, if this is true, the implications for this board and its ex-Bull bickering is staggering...

http://www.tsn.ca/



> ESPN is reporting that the Toronto Raptors have traded Jalen Rose to the New York Knicks in exchange for Antonio Davis. The Raptors host the Knicks tonight at the ACC. Details to follow...


Official Jalen Rose Update Thread, anyone?


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Haha. Yeah, it's on ESPN as well.

3/5th's of the dream lineup have come together.


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## JRose5

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Uh, that may be the worst basketball related news I've ever heard.


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## jnrjr79

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

The Score is reporting that Davis has been traded to Toronto. They have not yet said for whom. 

Jalen would make sense.

Oh Isaiah. I love it.


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## DaBullz

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Only a moron would trade Jalen Rose for AD.


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## Zeb

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Knicks got a 1st rounder, too.


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## JRose5

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Uhhh.....not happy.


Favorite player + Least favorite team who my despise for is not explainable in words = cruel, cruel joke


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2317958



> The New York Knicks have acquired Toronto Raptors guard/forward Jalen Rose and a first-round pick in exchange for power forward Antonio Davis, ESPN's Stephen A. Smith reports.
> 
> Davis was a likely target to be traded because of his expiring contract.
> 
> The Knicks have lost nine of their last 10 games.


Eddy, Jamal AND Jalen? Its an offense like the Harlem Globetrotters and defense like the Washington Generals!

K4E is now officially packing his bags and looking for a rent-controlled apartment in Manhattan.


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## JRose5

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

I bet Antonio's going to be happy to go back to Canada.


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

My hope is that when Rose/Crawford/Curry fall flat on their faces (or continue falling would probably be more appropriate), it's going to put an end to "Pax broke up the dynasty" cries heard around here.


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## remlover

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

This is a dream come true. Knicks get rid of the only veteran leadership they have on that team for Jalen. 

Larry Brown must be doing cartwheels over this move.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

LMAO, the OldBulls live on


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## Future

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Why the hell would Toronto trade for someone who doesn't want to be in Toronto. Don't they remember the whole ordeal they went through last time they had Antonio Davis? 

Unless they will buy him out, then it is good news for the Bulls.


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## DaBullz

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

This really makes sense for the Knicks.

With a healthy (finally) Curry and Channing Frye, they're pretty much set at PF/C. Rose gives them a SF and better balance.

AND THEY GOT A #1?


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## Sham

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Toronto's now a free agency player. If EWill opts out (and he might do) and if AWill opts out (which he almost certainyl won't), the Raptors have about 25 mil to work with.


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

So Tornto gives away it's #1? Dumb. 

But we have two #1 picks just ready to change hands. 

Please, please, please trade for Bosh + AD.


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## Sham

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

BTW, AD is a near guarantee cut (he won't even stay in the city after tonight, I don't think), and the pick was Denver's, not Toronto's own.

And the irony of those two being swapped again is not lost on me.


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## Future

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

and Jalen Rose on the Knicks... I love it. Just what they need...horrible defense and a horrible contract.


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## Ron Cey

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

1) Have two players ever been traded for each other twice? 

2) Its just too funny that Crawford, Rose, and Curry are ALL now on the Knicks. What are the odds?

3) Does this mean AD comes back to Chicago now? I can definitely see Toronto waiving him, or him just flat out refusing to show up. Those fans hate him.

4) This trade does make the Knicks better. I'd have rathered it not happen.


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## remlover

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



DaBullz said:


> This really makes sense for the Knicks.
> 
> With a healthy (finally) Curry and Channing Frye, they're pretty much set at PF/C. Rose gives them a SF and better balance.
> 
> AND THEY GOT A #1?


This makes a lot of sense for NY if basketball was only concerned with Offense. But damn that James Naismith fellow for making defense a part of the game.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Knicks get a #1? 

I guess we'll have to look at the Raptor's Cap Space after this trade.

Is there another bidder in the Al Harrington sweepstakes?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> So Tornto gives away it's #1? Dumb.
> 
> But we have two #1 picks just ready to change hands.
> 
> Please, please, please trade for Bosh + AD.


I don't think AD can be traded again now...


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## DaBullz

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



remlover said:


> This makes a lot of sense for NY if basketball was only concerned with Offense. But damn that James Naismith fellow for making defense a part of the game.


Their record is terrific without Rose, eh?


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## remlover

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Isiah is doing good job of consolidating me-first, bad defense players w/ Low BBall IQ. Beware Marcus Fizer and Eddie Robinson....your phone may be ringing!!!


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Raptors play the Knicks tonight. LOL. I wonder if they were already in the locker room getting suited up for the 6PM game when this happened.


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2317958
> 
> Eddy, Jamal AND Jalen? Its an offense like the Harlem Globetrotters and defense like the Washington Generals!
> 
> K4E is now officially packing his bags and looking for a rent-controlled apartment in Manhattan.


Yup, it's officially "no excuses" time for k4e's Pax bashing. Either this team puts up or he his arguments don't hold any water.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Now the Knicks have an excuse for whatever losses they pile up after this trade.

They just lost AD after all.


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## remlover

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Raptors player the Knicks tonight. LOL. I wonder if they were already in the locker room getting suited up for the 6PM game whent his happened.


Doesn't it require league approval, and since it is a friday, maybe the offices close early? It would be interesting to see Rose in a Knicks jersey right away.

By the way, Knicks fans should be happy. They will get 2 months of Jalen on his best behavior being a "changed player", then in the blink of an eye...old Jalen comes back.


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## Future

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



DaBullz said:


> Their record is terrific without Rose, eh?


It won't be any better with him


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## Sham

Toronto for next season only has these contracts:


Alvin Williams - $7,000,000 (PLAYER OPTION)
Morris Peterson - $5,000,000 
Alonzo Mourning (not on roster) - $4,496,540 
Eric Williams - $4,363,635 (PLAYER OPTION)
Chris Bosh - $4,235,220
Mike James - $3,600,000 (PLAYER OPTION)
Charlie Villaneuva - $2,537,880
Rafael Araujo - $2,395,200 
Jose Calderon - $2,160,000 
Matt Bonner - $2,099,762 
Joey Graham - $1,492,440 
Pape Sow - $719,373 


James is a near certainty to opt out, Alvin Williams definitely won't unless he forgots, and E Will probably won't. Assuming those three circumstances happen, their pay roll is just over $36 million. Enough for a max player. If the two Williams' bail them out, then they have $25 million to spend, plus their own high first rounder, and some good young players.


And so that's why they do this.


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



DaBullz said:


> This really makes sense for the Knicks.
> 
> With a healthy (finally) Curry and Channing Frye, they're pretty much set at PF/C. Rose gives them a SF and better balance.
> 
> AND THEY GOT A #1?


This is just about the worst trade the Knicks could have made. Rose is a negative for any team he plays for.


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## DaBullz

...


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## Frankensteiner

ShamBulls said:


> Toronto for next season only has these contracts:
> 
> 
> Alvin Williams - $7,000,000 (PLAYER OPTION)
> Morris Peterson - $5,000,000
> Alonzo Mourning (not on roster) - $4,496,540
> Eric Williams - $4,363,635 (PLAYER OPTION)
> Chris Bosh - $4,235,220
> Mike James - $3,600,000 (PLAYER OPTION)
> Charlie Villaneuva - $2,537,880
> Rafael Araujo - $2,395,200
> Jose Calderon - $2,160,000
> Matt Bonner - $2,099,762
> Joey Graham - $1,492,440
> Pape Sow - $719,373
> 
> 
> James is a near certainty to opt out, Alvin Williams definitely won't unless he forgots, and E Will probably won't. Assuming those three circumstances happen, their pay roll is just over $36 million. Enough for a max player. If the two Williams' bail them out, then they have $25 million to spend, plus their own high first rounder, and some good young players.
> 
> 
> And so that's why they do this.


They'll go after Magloire.


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## Sham

He's not a free agent. He signed an extension.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Yup, it's officially "no excuses" time for k4e's Pax bashing. Either this team puts up or he his arguments don't hold any water.


I'm not a Jalen fan. I just wasn't a fan of the trade.

Jalen, Donyell, Jamal and Eddy >>>>> Othella, Sweets, Pike, AD and Cap Space, especially for the last two seasons.

I'm never against trading an asset if you get something good in return.


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## JRose5

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Rose is a negative for any team he plays for.



You really think he's that bad?
I knew alot of people had problems with him, but I didn't realize it was to the point where he's just an all around negative that should be avoided at all cost.

The Raptors were playing better with him in the starting line-up, at least from what I gathered.


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## jnrjr79

The Knicks will continue to be really, really awful this year.

However, I think it's a good deal for both. The Knicks get a pick back for a guy who was going to be gone anyway. The Raps get cap space.

If it's true that it's Denver's first rounder and not Toronto's, that does make it less exciting for NY, but I still understand it.

Larry Brown may set a new record for his shortest coaching stint. I can't imagine this sits well with him.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> This is just about the worst trade the Knicks could have made. Rose is a negative for any team he plays for.


When was the last time the Indiana Pacers won the Eastern Conference?


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## remlover

i cannot wait to see the Jalen "arms wide apart" pose on the cover of the NY Post. 

This is just perfect. Jalen, Eddy, and Jamal together for the next year and a half. It's like fate!


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## Future

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> When was the last time the Indiana Pacers won the Eastern Conference?


When they had Rick Smits and Reggie Miller.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



JRose5 said:


> You really think he's that bad?
> I knew alot of people had problems with him, but I didn't realize it was to the point where he's just an all around negative that should be avoided at all cost.
> 
> The Raptors were playing better with him in the starting line-up, at least from what I gathered.



That's the issue I have as well. I'm not a huge Rose fan by any stretch, but he's not a useless pile of crap like people make him out to be.



Kendra Davis is under arrest so she can't go ballistic on anyone thank God.


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## Sham

The Knicks just bought a draft pick for $34 million.

In the way that only they can.

Still, if Dolan keeps signing the checks, might as well.....


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Future said:


> When they had Rick Smits and Reggie Miller.


Who had the highest EFF on that team?


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## Sham

If this year's draft is so bad, why does Isiah want to be in it?


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## Future

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Who had the highest EFF on that team?


What has he done since getting that large contract of his?


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

This is pretty funny BTW, IMO. LOL. Wow.


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## Future

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

I'm interested to see if Rose will get playing time under Larry Brown.... 

I'm also interested to see what AD will do now that he is traded to Toronto. Refuse to play? Will Toronto buy him out?


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## JRose5

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Future said:


> When they had Rick Smits and Reggie Miller.



That's true, but that year Jalen averaged 18.2 ppg, 4.0 apg and 4.8 rpg
Then in the playoffs 20.8 ppg, 3.4 apg and 4.4 rpg
And they lost in what was it, 6 games? in the Finals.
I'd say he was a big part of that team.

Granted that was 6 years ago, but he really hasn't had a team like that where they're even close to making any noise.
And New York's not gonna help him there.
Kind of sad really, I've been waiting him to get back to a real team, and he keeps getting traded to worse ones.


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> I'm not a Jalen fan. I just wasn't a fan of the trade.
> 
> Jalen, Donyell, Jamal and Eddy >>>>> Othella, Sweets, Pike, AD and Cap Space, *(EDIT: WHAT ABOUT THE DRAFT PICKS?)* especially for the last two seasons.
> 
> I'm never against trading an asset if you get something good in return.


No, let's not change this around. You said the Bulls would be better with a lineup of:

PG- Hinrich
SG- Crawford
SF- Rose / Marshall
PF- Chandler
C- Curry

Now, the Knicks lineup has Frye and Marbury instead of Chandler and Hinrich. Not sure where you stand on the Frye/Chandler comparison, but I know you called Hinrich an average guard. I'm assuming you would think Marbury is the better player.

If the Knicks fail, it should put an end to your complaints, right?


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## Future

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



JRose5 said:


> That's true, but that year Jalen averaged 18.2 ppg, 4.0 apg and 4.8 rpg
> Then in the playoffs 20.8 ppg, 3.4 apg and 4.4 rpg
> And they lost in what was it, 6 games? in the Finals.
> I'd say he was a big part of that team.
> 
> Granted that was 6 years ago, but he really hasn't had a team like that where they're even close to making any noise.
> And New York's not gonna help him there.
> Kind of sad really, I've been waiting him to get back to a real team, and he keeps getting traded to worse ones.


I'm not going to rip on Jalen for what he did in the playoffs.... cuz he was a hell of a player then. Its just that since he got that large contract, he hasn't been the same player that he was in the playoffs.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Future said:


> What has he done since getting that large contract of his?


That's a different issue. He's been shuffled off to some of the worst teams in basketball since then. Good player on bad team? Brand, Artest and Miller were not winning on the Bulls. VC was not winning on that Raptors team. AD could not win on the Knicks.



Frankensteiner said:


> Rose is a negative for any team he plays for.


This is the incorrect statement I was talking about.


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## fl_flash

Well, this was a rumoured deal for a while now. It kinda sucks because it makes Toronto worse in the short term and relative to the Knicks, they'll probably slip below them in the standings and thus, make our Kicks pick a little lower in the lottry. Rose is still decent and he'll definatly help the Knicks. We'll just have to see how much of an effect his complete lack of defense hurts them.

Makes sense for the Raps long-term. They get MAJOR cap space this summer and that Denver pick is probably in the late teens, early twenties. The Knicks have holes but that pick will help Brown get a decent point/wing who'll play some defense and buy into his system. Actually, a good trade for both teams.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> PG- Hinrich
> SG- Crawford
> SF- Rose / Marshall
> PF- Chandler
> C- Curry


I'd much rather have that lineup than the Knicks current group. No contest.


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## Frankensteiner

ShamBulls said:


> He's not a free agent. He signed an extension.


You sure about that? I can't find it anywhere. 

I remember him being interviewed last week on NBA TV and the announcers asking him about going to Toronto next year.


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## Sham

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Jay Williams, Eddie Robinson and Marcus Fizer are all free agents. Do it Isiah.


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## PC Load Letter

OH MY GOD. This is the funniest thing ever!

1. The Toronto fans hate AD. No way he reports, but he can't be happy, either way. First, Kendra gets arrested and now this? Not a good couple of weeks for Tony.
2. The Knicks adding yet another bad salary. I mean, how does this make them better? Another wing player who plays no defense?
3. Jalen and Larry Brown did not get along. In fact, I remember Jalen saying Larry Bird was the first coach to use him the right way and "it helps when you have a good coach who encourages you" or something along those lines. It wasn't pretty.
4. How could Larry Brown have agreed with this? I'm thinking he didn't. This could seriously drive him to a prompt retirement.
5. Maybe the Knicks can sign JayWill in the off-season, too. Then they're a Tyson Chandler away from the old Bulls dream team.
6. The one thing I give Isiah is he makes for great entertainment. No doubting that.

sidenote: could this open up a Tim Thomas/AD swap? That would seem to make sense.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

This is seemingly a bad trade for the Bulls, if TOR is under the Cap.

Looks like we may have a little competition for FAs that would be willing to part with cash.


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> I'd much rather have that lineup than the Knicks current group. No contest.


So Marbury is only an average guard? And Chandler is better than Frye?

Seems to me like you're hedging your bets.


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## JRose5

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> That's a different issue. He's been shuffled off to some of the worst teams in basketball since then. Good player on bad team? Brand, Artest and Miller were not winning on the Bulls. VC was not winning on that Raptors team. AD could not win on the Knicks.



That's the point I was going after, he put 20+ ppg for a couple years with us, and 18.5 ppg last year when he was healthy the whole year for the Raptors, so he still has some production.
Unfortunately the teams around him have just been horrible.

And he played good defense on those Indiana teams, I think after several years of teams that aren't competitive whatsoever, combined with losing some athleticism from getting older, the defensive effort just isn't there. I bet if the rest of the players on those Bulls teams he was on were better, there wouldn't have been an issue about his defense because he would have still been driven.

Not that that is a good thing, you should play 100% all the time rather then slack cause it's not worth it, but that's how I saw it.


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## Sham

Frankensteiner said:


> You sure about that? I can't find it anywhere.
> 
> I remember him being interviewed last week on NBA TV and the announcers asking him about going to Toronto next year.



Yeah, meaning after the 2006-2007 season. That's when his contract is up. Not after this year.


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## Future

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> That's a different issue. He's been shuffled off to some of the worst teams in basketball since then. Good player on bad team? Brand, Artest and Miller were not winning on the Bulls. VC was not winning on that Raptors team. AD could not win on the Knicks.



Well then what about in 2002. He was on a pretty good Pacers team. Why would the Pacers trade him if he was such a great player? Its funny that Isiah Thomas is trading for someone he clashed with when he was a coach.


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## Rhyder

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



DaBullz said:


> This really makes sense for the Knicks.
> 
> With a healthy (finally) Curry and Channing Frye, they're pretty much set at PF/C. Rose gives them a SF and better balance.
> 
> AND THEY GOT A #1?


My fantasy team is cheering this move (I have Frye).

Anyone else find it ironic that Toronto traded away AD for Rose, then traded Rose back for AD. Maybe Rose will sign with whatever team AD signs for next season. Could this be a move to give Tor some frontcourt help before a possible Bosh trade? Or do they really want to be FA players this season?


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## Frankensteiner

ShamBulls said:


> Yeah, meaning after the 2006-2007 season. That's when his contract is up. Not after this year.


Sorry. Had that confused.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> So Marbury is only an average guard? And Chandler is better than Frye?
> 
> Seems to me like you're hedging your bets.


The Knicks are not a balanced team, IMO.

You can't have an entire team of non-superstar players that are stronger on offense than defense, IMO, which is what the Knicks are right now.


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## DaBullz

PC Load Letter said:


> OH MY GOD. This is the funniest thing ever!
> 
> 1. The Toronto fans hate AD. No way he reports, but he can't be happy, either way. First, Kendra gets arrested and now this? Not a good couple of weeks for Tony.
> 2. The Knicks adding yet another bad salary. I mean, how does this make them better? Another wing player who plays no defense?
> 3. Jalen and Larry Brown did not get along. In fact, I remember Jalen saying Larry Bird was the first coach to use him the right way and "it helps when you have a good coach who encourages you" or something along those lines. It wasn't pretty.
> 4. How could Larry Brown have agreed with this? I'm thinking he didn't. This could seriously drive him to a prompt retirement.
> 5. Maybe the Knicks can sign JayWill in the off-season, too. Then they're a Tyson Chandler away from the old Bulls dream team.
> 6. The one thing I give Isiah is he makes for great entertainment. No doubting that.
> 
> sidenote: could this open up a Tim Thomas/AD swap? That would seem to make sense.


Seems to me they're Elton Brand, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller away from being an old Bulls team (that didn't win, either).


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## Sham

Frankensteiner said:


> Sorry. Had that confused.




It's still a valid point because if Milwaukee decides they don't want Magloire no more (or rather, they do, but if they can swap him and Joe Smith's deal for young, cheap bigs if they miss the playoffs), then the Raptors can take that entire cap hit. The valu eof cap space. Alternatively, if the offseason doesn't go well for them, they could hold a lot of the spaceover for the year after and try for him then. although Bosh's extension will have kicked in by then.


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> You can't have an entire team of players that are stronger on offense than defense, IMO, which is what the Knicks are right now.


Hmm. Sounds like the reason a team would trade Rose for AD. I was under the belief trades and personell moves were all about talent level, and not actually building a team. Weird.

It's cool though. I'm sure the additions of Chandler and Hinrich to the Knicks would result in the addition of 20+ wins.


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Hmm. Sounds like the reason a team would trade Rose for AD. Weird.
> 
> It's cool though. I'm sure the additions of Chandler and Hinrich to the Knicks would result in the addition of 20+ wins.


Don't forget Marshall.

And if Chandler is playing the way he has been playing of late, I would not be surprised at all if that team was a winner.

This trade was about a draft pick and Cap Space. The players are irrelevant, IMO, unless there were major personality clashes going on behind the scenes.


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## rlucas4257

Davis going back to Toronto is hilarious. He deserves it, after bashing that city as much as he did. Toronto is a great place. Have fun in Canada Antonio and Kendra


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## Frankensteiner

rlucas4257 said:


> Davis going back to Toronto is hilarious. He deserves it, after bashing that city as much as he did. Toronto is a great place. Have fun in Canada Antonio and Kendra


I, for one, hope AD goes back to the Bulls.


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## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> This trade was about a draft pick and Cap Space. The players are irrelevant, IMO, unless there were major personality clashes going on behind the scenes.


Sounds like the Crawford and Curry trades. Weird.


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## DaBullz

rlucas4257 said:


> Davis going back to Toronto is hilarious. He deserves it, after bashing that city as much as he did. Toronto is a great place. Have fun in Canada Antonio and Kendra


I think your "biggest surprise team east" prediction just came through

:laugh:


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## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Sounds like the Crawford and Curry trades. Weird.


Hmmm. Paxson said the Curry trade was about a heart issue. Weird.

Also, the Raptors fans only have to wait 1/2 a season for their chance at Al Harrington. Not years and years.

And the Raptors are a loser. When Paxson blew up the team this off-season and turned the Bulls from a winner to a loser, we were a winning team on the rise.


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## Sham

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

No TT for AD:



"A team cannot reacquire a player they traded away during that season (a season being July 1 - June 30) unless the player has been waived. "


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#85


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## ScottMay

Holy mother of God.



> "The darkest time of my career was my first season with the Pacers," Rose recalls. "Larry Brown was the coach, and I believe he resented me because he and Mark Jackson were very close. It just so happened that I was the guy stuck in the middle. It wasn't that he and I had any personal differences or arguments; I was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. I was trapped in the middle of a coach vs. management war. Because of that, I didn't get much of a chance to play."


http://www.jalenrose.com/jalenrose/index.jsp?section=3&subsection=10&article=bullpen1

WARNING: JalenRose.com has IMMEDIATE and VERY LOUD sound.

With this deal, Isiah is basically throwing down the gauntlet at Larry Brown's feet.

The thought of AD having to tell his wife about this deal makes me laugh out loud. Unfortunately, I think the whole Axelrodgate issue makes AD's return to Chicago this season (and probably down the road) very unlikely. He'll probably want to latch on with a contender, anyway.


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Don't forget Marshall.
> 
> And if Chandler is playing the way he has been playing of late, I would not be surprised at all if that team was a winner.


Like you said, Kirk Hinrich and Chandler must be All-Star players if they can provide such a difference in the W/L column. Definitely not average players.

And their PER's are much worse than Curry's. WTF? How's that possible?


----------



## lgtwins

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> So Marbury is only an average guard? And Chandler is better than Frye?
> 
> Seems to me like you're hedging your bets.


He certainly is.


----------



## superdave

rlucas4257 said:


> Davis going back to Toronto is hilarious. He deserves it, after bashing that city as much as he did. Toronto is a great place. Have fun in Canada Antonio and Kendra


This is f'n hilarious. Someone please pass me a cup of hot coffee to celebrate. I won't throw any, I promise.

Now those diehard ex-Bulls fans who have decried the departure of Rose, Crawford, and Curry can see all three on the same NBA team! What a treat (for some). Enjoy it diehards. I wonder what the excuses will be this time. Yawn.


----------



## Sham

That's a teriffic find Scott. Woooo smokies is there ever soem cabaret going along with this trade.


----------



## fl_flash

Zeke's assembling a team that Brown's gotta get the Chicago outta them! This is just too funny


----------



## rlucas4257

Frankensteiner said:


> I, for one, hope AD goes back to the Bulls.


I for one hopes AD freezes his *** of in Toronto. He and his wife clearly need to get over themselves.


----------



## superdave

fl_flash said:


> Zeke's assembling a team that Brown's gotta get the Chicago outta them! This is just too funny


 :woot:


----------



## mizenkay

pc, i'm with you. it's priceless. 

karma sure is a *****. AD going back to canada. wow. 

the first thought i had was "how did larry ever approve this?" then it dawned on me. he just doesn't give a **** anymore. 

and would AD even report? doubt it. would the raptors release him? would he return to the bulls? my head is spinning. 

and kendra. first the incident at the UC. now, essentially until her surrender, a fugitive from the law with an arrest warrant waiting. now this? quick, someone at vh1 or bravo offer this woman her own reality show! somewhere jackie christie is fuming. 

too too funny.


----------



## rlucas4257

superdave said:


> This is f'n hilarious. Someone please pass me a cup of hot coffee to celebrate. I won't throw any, I promise.
> 
> Now those diehard ex-Bulls fans who have decried the departure of Rose, Crawford, and Curry can see all three on the same NBA team! What a treat (for some). Enjoy it diehards. I wonder what the excuses will be this time. Yawn.



And exactly what does this have to do with the Bulls? I am talking about Davis taking a good city like Toronto to task. And since when did I become an "ex-Bulls fan"? Thats not your call to make, now is it?


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Like you said, Kirk Hinrich and Chandler must be All-Star players if they can provide such a difference in the W/L column. Definitely not average players.


They would provide the balance that lineup without them would need, IMO.

Chandler is an above average player when playing like he did last season and the last couple weeks.


----------



## nanokooshball

OOOOOOO man can't wait till AD comes back to the Bulls!


----------



## jnrjr79

ScottMay said:


> Holy mother of God.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.jalenrose.com/jalenrose/index.jsp?section=3&subsection=10&article=bullpen1
> 
> WARNING: JalenRose.com has IMMEDIATE and VERY LOUD sound.
> 
> With this deal, Isiah is basically throwing down the gauntlet at Larry Brown's feet.
> 
> The thought of AD having to tell his wife about this deal makes me laugh out loud. Unfortunately, I think the whole Axelrodgate issue makes AD's return to Chicago this season (and probably down the road) very unlikely. He'll probably want to latch on with a contender, anyway.


Really? It was an ugly incident, but quickly settled. It also doesn't seem location-specific, as it has become obvious that this was a Crazy Kendra issue. She'll be wherever he goes. 

His family still lives here. That to me would seem like a very big deal.


----------



## rlucas4257

jnrjr79 said:


> Really? It was an ugly incident, but quickly settled. It also doesn't seem location-specific, as it has become obvious that this was a Crazy Kendra issue. She'll be wherever he goes.
> 
> His family still lives here. That to me would seem like a very big deal.


Crazy Kendra!!! Me Like


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Hmmm. Paxson said the Curry trade was about a heart issue. Weird.


Regardless, it was all about cap space and draft picks from our end.



> Also, the Raptors fans only have to wait 1/2 a season for their chance at Al Harrington. Not years and years.


Cap space, whether one or two years down the road, is still cap space.



> And the Raptors are a loser. When Paxson blew up the team this off-season and turned the Bulls from a winner to a loser, we were a winning team on the rise.


That might be a valid complaint if your criticism of Paxson hadn't started with the Rose and Crawford trades. We were a perennial loser. Funny you didn't bring that up then.

And according to you, the Curry trade was all about a heart issue. Remember?


----------



## jnrjr79

rlucas4257 said:


> Crazy Kendra!!! Me Like


 
Maybe it should be Krazy Kendra. Sounds like a low-rent used car dealer.


----------



## superdave

rlucas4257 said:


> And exactly what does this have to do with the Bulls? I am talking about Davis taking a good city like Toronto to task. And since when did I become an "ex-Bulls fan"? Thats not your call to make, now is it?


I wasn't taking you to task RL. In fact, I wasn't addressing the second part of my post towards you even, my apologies if my poor wording came across that way.

'Ex-Bulls fan' refers to fans (whether Bulls fans or not) of Ex-Bulls players. Nothing directed at you my man, just those that have decried the departure of Rose, Crawford and Curry for ages now.


----------



## rlucas4257

jnrjr79 said:


> Maybe it should be Krazy Kendra. Sounds like a low-rent used car dealer.


Definetely the double Ks is better. From now, I will refer to her as Krazy Kendra. And Im with Mize, she needs a reality show.


----------



## narek

This is just so bizarre.


----------



## rlucas4257

superdave said:


> I wasn't taking you to task RL. In fact, I wasn't addressing the second part of my post towards you even, my apologies if my poor wording came across that way.
> 
> 'Ex-Bulls fan' refers to fans (whether Bulls fans or not) of Ex-Bulls players. Nothing directed at you my man, just those that have decried the departure of Rose, Crawford and Curry for ages now.


Point taken. 

Just for the record
No love for Rose
Loved Craw then went lukewarm on him his last year
Loved Curry, still do, think was totally mishandled on our end.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Regardless, it was all about cap space and draft picks from our end.


That and an immediate decent under .500





> Cap space, whether one or two years down the road, is still cap space.


You honestly don't think the sooner you can act on Cap Space, the better?

The only reason you would not is if the FA crop was rotten, which is an argument you could make in this case for both the Raptors and Bulls... but I don't know if the Raps would have Cap Space next off-season if they have to re-up players.




> That might be a valid complaint if your criticism of Paxson hadn't started with the Rose and Crawford trades. We were a perennial loser. Funny you didn't bring that up then.
> 
> And according to you, the Curry trade was all about a heart issue. Remember?


Rose/Marshall trade, not just Rose trade. I was more upset about losing Marshall than Rose. And we didn't get much of value in return, IMO. Same with the Crawford trade. Nothing really in return. Other than the chance, which just seemingly became lower, of overpaying Al Harrington.


----------



## superdave

rlucas4257 said:


> Point taken.
> 
> Just for the record
> No love for Rose
> Loved Craw then went lukewarm on him his last year
> Loved Curry, still do, think was totally mishandled on our end.


Just to be 100% clear, I would never call you to the carpet RL.. I have too much respect for you to do that bro.

Ahhh this whole trade scenario is downright comical. Man oh man.


----------



## kukoc4ever

(burp)


----------



## rlucas4257

superdave said:


> Just to be 100% clear, I would never call you to the carpet RL.. I have too much respect for you to do that bro.
> 
> Ahhh this whole situation is downright comical. Man oh man.


It really is. I mean this is Isiah committing suicide. Thats the only way to describe it from the Knicks end. I mean, Rose just doesnt fit what they are trying to do. And they take a tradable piece in Davis and turn him into Rose? I dont get it. Brown will probably take Isiahs job this summer. Thats the feeling I get. 

Its also comical cause this is basically the same trade Chicago and NY made 2 years ago. And its comical because Davis really bashed the city of Toronto and is now headed back there. I dont like AD at all. I liked him earlier in his career but his comments about Toronto totally turned me off on him. They were made by simply an ignorant person in real life and a player whose skills were eroding. I think he and his wife, Krazy Kendra, are just ignorant people who cry when they dont get things their way. So this goes down as one of those situations where I really wish the worst for all parties involved. I dont like Isiah, personally. I dont like Rose. I dont like AD. But its crazy hilarious that they their paths just seem to keep crossing. Next thing, we will find out Krause has secretly been building the Knicks.


----------



## kukoc4ever

This trade is comical on all ends. Rose hates Brown. Davis hates Toronto. Knicks don't need Rose. What a mess, LOL.



BUT, other than whatever Rose/Brown issues there are, both teams seem to be better off at the end of this season (pick, space)


----------



## Sham

> I dont like Rose. I dont like AD. But its crazy hilarious that they their paths just seem to keep crossing. Next thing, we will find out Krause has secretly been building the Knicks.


Maybe it wasn't the New York _Yankees_ he was scouting for :uhoh:


----------



## speedythief

To clarify, Toronto reportedly traded Denver's 2006 1st, which will be in the ~20+ range, not their own pick, which will be top-5 or so.

Toronto will very likely not sign a max-money player in the summer. They will use the cap space either to extend Bosh (though the cap space isn't required in that regard as he is restricted) or pursue a good free agent like Peja, Nazr, or Joel Pryzbilla.

Or make lopsided trades.


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> That and an immediate decent under .500


We'll see how that plays out next year.



> Rose/Marshall trade, not just Rose trade. I was more upset about losing Marshall than Rose. And we didn't get much of value in return, IMO. Same with the Crawford trade. Nothing really in return.


Except an immediate ascent over .500 with some good, veteran role players. You were just telling me how important it is to build a complete team, and now you're trying to minimize the tangible and intangible qualities those guys brought to the table? Whatever. (Plus cap space, of course).


----------



## DaBullz

superdave said:


> This is f'n hilarious. Someone please pass me a cup of hot coffee to celebrate. I won't throw any, I promise.
> 
> Now those diehard ex-Bulls fans who have decried the departure of Rose, Crawford, and Curry can see all three on the same NBA team! What a treat (for some). Enjoy it diehards. I wonder what the excuses will be this time. Yawn.


Hot coffee burns on its way out your nose.


----------



## mizenkay

just wonder who is under more sedation at this point. larry or kendra? 

---

espn news has marc stein on the phone:

for toronto it's all about cap room. moving jalen. getting AD's expiring contract. calls it a great deal. keep chris bosh. make a run at a big man. nene? perhaps if they can move eric williams by the deadline they'll have even more room.

in the long term jalen can't really help the knicks. their season is so far gone, it's kinda hard to explain. tho' they do get the pick. in NY it won't go over well with fans if they just tank. so this isn't about making the playoffs, but trying to win a few more games. makin' short sighted moves isn't too smart. might have something to do with taking the heat off IT and his tabloid troubles.

AD must report. will be suspended without pay if he doesn't. raptors didn't trade for AD they traded for his contract. could possibly be a buyout and make AD a free agent. stein thinks that's what they'll do.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> You were just telling me how important it is to build a complete team,


Which is my main issue with playing Harrington 35 minutes at the 4 (we'll still have Noc and Deng, so where else is he going to play?)


----------



## superdave

mizenkay said:


> just wonder who is under more sedation at this point. larry or kendra?
> 
> ---
> 
> espn news has marc stein on the phone:
> 
> for toronto it's all about cap room. moving jalen. getting AD's expiring contract. calls it a great deal. keep chris bosh. make a run at a big man. nene? perhaps if they can move eric williams by the deadline they'll have even more room.
> 
> in the long term jalen can't really help the knicks. their season is so far gone, it's kinda hard to explain. tho' they do get the pick. in NY it won't go over well with fans if they just tank. so this isn't about making the playoffs, but trying to win a few more games. makin' short sighted moves isn't too smart. might have something to do with taking the heat off IT and his tabloid troubles.
> 
> AD must report. will be suspended without pay if he doesn't. raptors didn't trade for AD they traded for his contract. could possibly be a buyout and make AD a free agent. stein thinks that's what they'll do.


I guess the inevitable question is... would Bulls fans welcome AD back (if he were available as an FA or Tim Thomas trade)?

In a strange Doug Christie sort of way... maybe its not worth the trouble?


----------



## narek

You know, Rose played point guard for Zeke in Indiana...........


----------



## ScottMay

speedythief said:


> *or pursue a good free agent like Peja, Nazr, or Joel Pryzbilla.*


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

Hopefully AD will offer up another hilarious rant about the metric system during his upcoming thirty-second stay in Toronto and that'll be enough to steer those quality FAs to good old Chicago.


----------



## Sham

I'm confused. Are we rooting for or against Denver now? :whoknows:


----------



## rlucas4257

mizenkay said:


> just wonder who is under more sedation at this point. larry or kendra?
> 
> ---
> 
> espn news has marc stein on the phone:
> 
> for toronto it's all about cap room. moving jalen. getting AD's expiring contract. calls it a great deal. keep chris bosh. make a run at a big man. nene? perhaps if they can move eric williams by the deadline they'll have even more room.
> 
> in the long term jalen can't really help the knicks. their season is so far gone, it's kinda hard to explain. tho' they do get the pick. in NY it won't go over well with fans if they just tank. so this isn't about making the playoffs, but trying to win a few more games. makin' short sighted moves isn't too smart. might have something to do with taking the heat off IT and his tabloid troubles.
> 
> AD must report. will be suspended without pay if he doesn't. raptors didn't trade for AD they traded for his contract. could possibly be a buyout and make AD a free agent. stein thinks that's what they'll do.



Can anyone answer me a question that I simply dont know anything about. Whats the Knicks cap situation going into 2007? Thats the bonanza. If they actually have contracts off the books for that summer then perhaps there is a method to their madness. But I got to believe that is highly unlikely.


----------



## rlucas4257

ScottMay said:


> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
> 
> Hopefully AD will offer up another hilarious rant about the metric system during his upcoming thirty-second stay in Toronto and that'll be enough to steer those quality FAs to good old Chicago.



Oh and how Canadian schools werent up to par etc etc. It was plain ignorant. I hope Toronto keeps him and makes him play. That would serve him right.


----------



## jimmy

:rofl:


----------



## Sham

> Can anyone answer me a question that I simply dont know anything about. Whats the Knicks cap situation going into 2007? Thats the bonanza. If they actually have contracts off the books for that summer then perhaps there is a method to their madness. But I got to believe that is highly unlikely.



They are paying $127 million this season, are already down for $119 million next season (that's before any deal involving Penny, before the MLE is spent, and before their first rounders' contract) and are pencilled in for $64 million in 2007/2008, even BEFORE htye've taken out Frye, Robinson and Lee's options, plus spent maybe two MLE's and signed two first rounders.


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Which is my main issue with playing Harrington 35 minutes at the 4 (we'll still have Noc and Deng, so where else is he going to play?)


LOL. How about going back to what were talking about just a second ago? 

As they say, keep spinnin'.


----------



## narek

ShamBulls said:


> They are paying $127 million this season, are already down for $119 million next season (that's before any deal involving Penny, before the MLE is spent, and before their first rounders' contract) and are pencilled in for $64 million in 2007/2008, even BEFORE htye've taken out Frye, Robinson and Lee's options, plus spent maybe two MLE's and signed two first rounders.


the breakdown is here: 

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm


----------



## rlucas4257

ShamBulls said:


> They are paying $127 million this season, are already down for $119 million next season (that's before any deal involving Penny, before the MLE is spent, and before their first rounders' contract) and are pencilled in for $64 million in 2007/2008, even BEFORE htye've taken out Frye, Robinson and Lee's options, plus spent maybe two MLE's and signed two first rounders.


Wow, so there really is no method to their madness. Well, Zeke will be fired by then. The locals here in NY are getting restless.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> LOL. How about going back to what were talking about just a second ago?


Oh OK.

Yah, there is a difference between adding a Hinrich and Chandler to your lineup (guys that can play 35 minutes a night of productive basketball) vs. a bunch of washed up old vets.


----------



## Sham

ShamBulls said:


> They are paying $127 million this season, are already down for $119 million next season (that's before any deal involving Penny, before the MLE is spent, and before their first rounders' contract) and are pencilled in for $64 million in 2007/2008, even BEFORE they've taken out Frye, Robinson and Lee's options, plus spent maybe two MLE's and signed two first rounders.





To break it down further, here's some rounded up figures concerning that 64 million figure:


Marbury - $20 mil
Curry - $9 mil
Richardson - $8 mil
Crawford - $8 mil
M Rose - $7 mil
J Williams - $7 mil
James - $6 mil



Rose has a player option for that season and the one after but no chance he passes it up.

So they're paying $64 million for 6 players.

Nice.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Someone please correct me where I'm wrong here.

First, $$$ is no object to the Knicks and they have no realistic chance whatsoever of getting under the Cap. So, they just got a 1st round pick and a decent player for an old man who didn't really want to be around and was gone to be going at the end of the year anyway.

Isn't that a good deal?

Most of the Raptors fans on the Raps board seem pretty POed at the trade.
Why don't they hate Jalen like so many Chicago fans did?


----------



## Sham

narek said:


> the breakdown is here:
> 
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm




I've got this great and more reliable source


----------



## jimmy

narek said:


> the breakdown is here:
> 
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm


Rose's contract isn't included in that.


----------



## Sham

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Someone please correct me where I'm wrong here.
> 
> First, $$$ is no object to the Knicks and they have no chance whatsoever of getting under the Cap. So, they just got a 1st round pick and a decent player for an old man who didn't really want to be around and was going to be going at the end of the year anyway.
> 
> Isn't that a good deal?




Not if it keeps them from spending this year's MLE, no. 

If it does not, then given the unique circumstances, probably. Unless they screw the selection up.

Dolan was reluctant to do this trade because he didn't want to spend more meainingless cheese. So $34 million for a mid/late first rounder before you even signed him takes some serious balls to sign off. I guess now time will tell.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



ShamBulls said:


> Not if it keeps them from spending this year's MLE, no.


But, $$$ is no object to the Knicks. There is no CBA rule preventing them from spending the MLE, right?


----------



## Sham

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Not to spam, just trying to be helpful, but here's the best salary picture for the Knicks I can get ya.

http://www.shamsports.com/salaries/knicks.htm


----------



## Sham

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> But, $$$ is no object to the Knicks.


But therein lies the point. Dolan is starting to hint that it is. For the Knicks fans sake, they'd better hope it isn't.





> There is no CBA rule preventing them from spending the MLE, right?



No, but a cynic would tell you there should be. :banana:


----------



## step

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

I actually appluad this trade from Toronto's end. They have to do something drastic this offseason in order to improve the team otherwise they'll lose Bosh. 

The players involved are comical.


----------



## narek

jimmy said:


> Rose's contract isn't included in that.


Nope, but it's close since you'd have to subtract AD's contract off of it.

I wonder what Pax is thinking about this.


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Oh OK.
> 
> Yah, there is a difference between adding a Hinrich and Chandler to your lineup (guys that can play 35 minutes a night of productive basketball) vs. a bunch of washed up old vets.


AD- 25.6 minutes, Othella- 18.2 minutes last year. THE HAWK is playing 25.8 minutes on the 3rd best in the league right now. And they also, as I've said, provided some intangible qualities.


----------



## ScottMay

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> AD- 25.6 minutes, Othella- 18.2 minutes last year. THE HAWK is playing 25.8 minutes on the 3rd best in the league right now. And they also, as I've said, provided some intangible qualities.


:laugh:


----------



## El Chapu

Well, its Toronto after all. And they arent going to start winning from day to night. Money talks but.....

What motivated Toronto to pull the trigger? Being players in the next free agency? So that means they wouldnt mind cutting AD, right?


----------



## step

> What motivated Toronto to pull the trigger? Being players in the next free agency? So that means they wouldnt mind cutting AD, right?


They need to be in the position to add players to improve the team, with Rose on the books they weren't able to do that.
It's really about, lets make it look like we're trying, so that Bosh won't flee!


----------



## Rhyder

ShamBulls said:


> I'm confused. Are we rooting for or against Denver now? :whoknows:


For.

More wins Denver means lower pick for New York which translates in them getting a lesser player in the draft (theoretically), which (again, theoretically) will not help them as much next year.

Denver winning more adds more value to our pick swap next year.

I just hope that Rose doesn't add more wins this year from inspired play post-trade.


----------



## ScottMay

step said:


> They need to be in the position to add players to improve the team, with Rose on the books they weren't able to do that.
> It's really about, lets make it look like we're trying, so that Bosh won't flee!


Al Harrington at the 3 for Toronto makes a hell of a lot more sense than Al Harrington at the 4 for us does, FWIW and IMO.


----------



## El Chapu

step said:


> They need to be in the position to add players to improve the team, with Rose on the books they weren't able to do that.
> It's really about, lets make it look like we're trying, so that Bosh won't flee!


So they wouldnt mind cutting AD loose, right?


----------



## lgtwins

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Someone please correct me where I'm wrong here.
> 
> First, $$$ is no object to the Knicks and they have no realistic chance whatsoever of getting under the Cap. So, they just got a 1st round pick and a decent player for an old man who didn't really want to be around and was gone to be going at the end of the year anyway.
> 
> Isn't that a good deal?
> 
> Most of the Raptors fans on the Raps board seem pretty POed at the trade.
> <b>Why don't they hate Jalen like so many Chicago fans did?</b>


Why does it matter how they feel about this trade? Since when do we need Toronto fan's approval level to guage players for the sake of discussion onthis board?


----------



## mizenkay

of course jalen's first call was to his publicist.


http://www.insidehoops.com/rose-davis-trade-020306.shtml



> InsideHoops.com presents the first comments from Rose about being traded to New York, via Ronn Torossian of 5W Public Relations:
> 
> "What better arena than Madison Square Garden to forward my basketball career," said Rose to InsideHoops.com via 5WPR. "I can't wait to play in front of the many Knicks fans, friends and family in the NYC area and very much look forward to being a part of the Knicks organization. Ask any athlete – One of his dreams is to play in Madison Square Garden. It's also always been a dream for me."
> 
> *"Whatever Coach Brown needs me to do to help the team is my focus. I am thrilled to be a Knick," said Rose.*


:biggrin:


----------



## step

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



> Al Harrington at the 3 for Toronto makes a hell of a lot more sense than Al Harrington at the 4 for us does,


It sure does.


> So they wouldnt mind cutting AD loose, right?


I wouldn't put it past them, though it really depends on AD.


----------



## Sham

Rhyder said:


> For.
> 
> More wins Denver means lower pick for New York which translates in them getting a lesser player in the draft (theoretically), which (again, theoretically) will not help them as much next year.
> 
> Denver winning more adds more value to our pick swap next year.
> 
> I just hope that Rose doesn't add more wins this year from inspired play post-trade.




Yeah, but - 

Denver losing more means the pick falls within the boundaries of protection, meaning they keep it, meaning the Knicks dont get it, meaning they don't get the chance to improve the roster, meaning their 2006.07 team gets worse, meaning the swap is more likely.

Right?


----------



## remlover

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever9 said:


> Most of the Raptors fans on the Raps board seem pretty POed at the trade.
> Why don't they hate Jalen like so many Chicago fans did?


If you would read the threads about Jalen you would realize that he is despised in Toronto. Raps fans are upset that they had to include a 1st round pick.


----------



## narek

mizenkay said:


> of course jalen's first call was to his publicist.
> 
> 
> http://www.insidehoops.com/rose-davis-trade-020306.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> :biggrin:


Do any of the current Bulls have a publicist? 

I am so looking forward to the tabloid press reaction.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Thanks for your wonderful contribution, as always.


 you mean like that one? :|

focus. keep it on the topic. thanks. 

i mean this as a friendly general comment.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

ScottMay said:


> Al Harrington at the 3 for Toronto makes a hell of a lot more sense than Al Harrington at the 4 for us does, FWIW and IMO.


Peja at the 3 makes even more sense if they can extend Bosh. I imagine Indy will have the inside track on Peja if they look like they can win with their current crew, but Toronto can overpay him with their new cash if they need to. I hope they focus on Peja and not the guys we might want.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



ShamBulls said:


> But therein lies the point. Dolan is starting to hint that it is. For the Knicks fans sake, they'd better hope it isn't.


Yeah, we'll see how it plays out.

Seems like this trade is a signal that its business as usual for NYK.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



lgtwins said:


> Why does it matter how they feel about this trade? Since when do we need Toronto fan's approval level to guage players for the sake of discussion onthis board?


No approval needed.

Its just interesting that the Toronto fans don't have such a violent and belligerently negative opinion of Rose.

I enjoy hearing different viewpoints. Call me crazy. 

Its interesting that so many Chicago fans were so thrilled to get that vile cancer off their team at all costs, while that just does not seem to be the case for Toronto.


----------



## McBulls

The Bulls could sure use AD this season. He might just give us enough help to make the playoffs -- not to speak of a stabilizing influence on Chandler and Sweetney.

Toronto will surely offer a buy out. The fans would riot if he showed up in a Raptors uniform again. The question is whether AD still has any desire to keep playing after all the ruckus he's had this season. The Bulls wouldn't be able to offer much for this season, and would probably be unwilling to sign him to a multiyear contract.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

Frankensteiner said:


> I, for one, hope AD goes back to the Bulls.


I don't.


----------



## Pippenatorade

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> My hope is that when Rose/Crawford/Curry fall flat on their faces (or continue falling would probably be more appropriate), it's going to put an end to "Pax broke up the dynasty" cries heard around here.


Yeah, because Eddy Curry didn't play on a winning basketball team last year. Curry can be paired with "Starbury" Rose, Crawford and some 4'11" guard from Washington and it doesn't change the fact that last year, we were a winning team with him, this year we are not good. 

47-35 

or

What is our record now?

The Knicks being worse doesn't make us better. Both teams can get worse in a trade, which is exactly what happened. 

But then again, Tyson's stats are so much better than Curry's. Oh wait, no they aren't, but I forgot, a string of 6 good games is now the whole season lol.


----------



## ChiBulls2315

Wow. A few things. 

If it's assumed that AD is to be waived, why wouldn't NY trade Penny instead of Antonio? I mean obviously it doesn't make a lick of difference to Toronto IF they're going to cut him. That was the long rumored trade. Maybe Toronto is planning on making AD decide if he wants to A)play and get paid B) don't play and lose a ton of money. Interesting scenario. 

34 million bucks for a later round draft pick and 1.5 years of a declining Rose? NY says it's rebuilding. But then they do moves like this. Yeah they get the pick, but Rose is also going to be taking a lot of minutes from some of the younger guards the next few years. I get that Brown is there too so he obviously wants some vets. I'm not sure they know exactly what they're doing in NY. Isiah like shis young guys. And now they'll have Denver and SA's pick this summer. NY is in a position just like us, where they're going to need to pull at least one 3 for 1 trade pretty soon. 

Toronto is also rebuilding. Giving up draft picks sucks so I'm thinking they need to score someone in free agency this summer to make it worth it. Though I suppose this does open up minutes for the younger guys they have now if nothing else.


----------



## spongyfungy

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Pippenatorade said:


> The Knicks being worse doesn't make us better. Both teams can get worse in a trade, which is exactly what happened.


It kind of does. If the Knicks get worse, our chance for the no.1 pick gets better, so in a way it could make us better.



Pippenatorade said:


> But then again, Tyson's stats are so much better than Curry's. Oh wait, no they aren't, but I forgot, a string of 6 good games is now the whole season lol.


then it'll be seven, then eight, then nine..... He had a bad first half but even you can't deny he's valuable to the team if he keeps this up


----------



## Hustle

YearofDaBulls said:


> I don't.


I sure do. He brings some toughness and leadership we need. I'm still wondering why Pax didn't bring back Griffin. We need some vets, and Othella is by himself in that regard. Pike gave us some quality minutes last year, but I think he's finally washed up, he has completly sucked every small amount of time he's been out there this year.


----------



## ChiBulls2315

Oh and how many times do teams make good sized deals like this and they end up playing each other within a day or two? In the case of the GP/Allen deal and a few others, they didn't play b/c of the situation being a bit odd to the players facing their old team for the first time in a new uni and/or everything wasn't 100% set. Well it sounds like this is done and Jalen surely can't too sad about leaving Toronto. These boys need to suit up tonite. 

And yes that includes you AD. :raised_ey


----------



## ChiBulls2315

Ugh...

Sorry if it's been posted and no surprise obviously, but the players won't suit up tonite says SC.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

ScottMay said:


> Al Harrington at the 3 for Toronto makes a hell of a lot more sense than Al Harrington at the 4 for us does, FWIW and IMO.


My guess is that Al Harrington would rather slam his nuts in a drawer than go from one 20 win team in Hotlanta to a 15 win team in TDot

Just a hunch


----------



## rosenthall

Okay, 

1). For all of the reasons people have already pointed out, this trade is absolutely priceless. Honestly, I don't know if I've ever observed a real-life experience that was so dripping with comedic irony, on just about every level imaginable.

2). I don't think this affects us too too much. Jalen is a shot-chucking no defense playing ballhog on a team of shot-chucking no defense playing ballhogs. The only way in which it might significantly affect us is if Jalen goes on a 10 game streak of inspired play, as he seems to do every time he's traded. Even then, I'm not sure if he's good enough anymore, or would be enough to really lift the team out of the quagmire its in now. 

And I absolutely cannot wait to see how all this plays out in NY. The Jalen/Jalen/Eddy skillz train re-united! And being coached by Larry Brown!!! 

Hahah, and is anyone else anticipating all the quotes that should be coming from Jalen any day now on 'being a professional' and 'what it takes to lead'? :laugh: 


Isiah Thomas, you are precious, my friend.


----------



## ChiBulls2315

SausageKingofChicago said:


> My guess is that Al Harrington would rather slam his nuts in a drawer than go from one 20 win team in Hotlanta to a 15 win team in TDot
> 
> Just a hunch



Maybe AD can recruit him to Canada. 

On the flip side, AD waived then back to Chi means he could recruit Al for us.


----------



## spongyfungy

SausageKingofChicago said:


> My guess is that Al Harrington would rather slam his nuts in a drawer than go from one 20 win team in Hotlanta to a 15 win team in TDot
> 
> Just a hunch


 Winning is very important to him. I remember he said that in an article a while ago and he knows he's auditioning for other teams.

Who was Al's mentor at Indiana? Antonio Davis. It makes even more sense to get AD, if he is available. It also makes sense for Toronto to try to keep AD after this year in hope to lure Al.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

Hustle said:


> I sure do. He brings some toughness and leadership we need. I'm still wondering why Pax didn't bring back Griffin. We need some vets, and Othella is by himself in that regard. Pike gave us some quality minutes last year, but I think he's finally washed up, he has completly sucked every small amount of time he's been out there this year.


The same reasons you bring up about Pike are the same reasons I don't want AD here. He's old and washed up, and I hope I don't have to see his wife on TV again.


----------



## jnrjr79

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Pippenatorade said:


> Yeah, because Eddy Curry didn't play on a winning basketball team last year. Curry can be paired with "Starbury" Rose, Crawford and some 4'11" guard from Washington and it doesn't change the fact that last year, we were a winning team with him, this year we are not good.
> 
> 47-35
> 
> or
> 
> What is our record now?
> 
> The Knicks being worse doesn't make us better. Both teams can get worse in a trade, which is exactly what happened.
> 
> But then again, Tyson's stats are so much better than Curry's. Oh wait, no they aren't, but I forgot, a string of 6 good games is now the whole season lol.


I fail to see how this is applicable to the Toronto/New York trade.


----------



## Pippenatorade

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



jnrjr79 said:


> I fail to see how this is applicable to the Toronto/New York trade.


Something in the post I replied to about Eddy continuing falling on his face. I kinda wondered myself what Big E had to do with this trade lol.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

VishFlog

Yeah I agree Peja may make some sense but I think they will just rent a shooter like Mo Pete for a further year before his contract expires 

Peja's not a long term piece to build around anymore

I think better sense for Toronto and a better long term piece that complements Chris Bosh better is Joel Pryzibilla and I believe he just became Toronto's #1 free agency target this summer 

If Toronto can come out of this draft with Rudy Gay and spend some dollars to buy Joel Pryzibilla and say a Jiri Welsch or a John Salmons in free agency ...then they are a lock to extend Chris Bosh ..irrespective of whether we have #1 and #10 to offer them 

They'd still have a likely lottery pick in 2007 and around $12M to spend in cap room

Unfortunately this trade confirms that the Toronto front office has consolidated and has determined that Chris Bosh will be a Raptor for a long long time


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

_this is like the basketball equivalent of a fellini movie. it all started with a bizarre dream....._


anyway. hollinger opines already that this "could be interpreted as a shot across Brown's bow" in a developing power struggle between larry and IT. rose isn't exactly a larry type player blah, blah, blah, and that AD could get the buyout from the raptors and end up, yes, in chicago.

(but if he does, could we make sure kendra has her own, secure padded viewing area? thanks) 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2318089


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Anyway ..

This is pretty good news for us when you consider that the Knicks are going to suck arse for a long time yet and have significant internal issues 

That pick swap in 2007 is looking mightly juicy to have another high lottery pick from the Knicks next year too

2 high lottery picks for Eddy Curry

Thanks Isiah


----------



## truebluefan

Wow! 

I dont believe it! AD must be furious! 

Did Toronto make this trade so they could sign Bosh in the future?

NY will be fun to watch.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



mizenkay said:


> _this is like the basketball equivalent of a fellini movie. it all started with a bizarre dream....._
> 
> 
> anyway. hollinger opines already that this "could be interpreted as a shot across Brown's bow" in a developing power struggle between larry and IT. rose isn't exactly a larry type player blah, blah, blah, and that AD could get the buyout from the raptors and end up, yes, in chicago.
> 
> (but if he does, could we make sure kendra has her own, secure padded viewing area? thanks)
> 
> http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2318089



Bearing in mind that it was Larry than wanted AD to hang around 

I guess Larry doesn't have a pot to piss in as AD has meant dick to the Knicks W/L

But its kind of self torture for Isiah as well when you consider what a tempestuos relationship he has had with Jalen Rose in the past as well

Rose is in his career now , at best , is like a much maligned Stryker from Flying High 

This is seriously funny


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

I love Jalen's publicist comments 

An honours graduate with a Bachelor's degree in Brown Nose from ScrewU


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

oh absolutely. it was larry who convinced AD to stay. it was larry who said AD is the only player who understands how to play the way he wants.

this is isiah trying to take the heat off himself in a big way. it's classic. 

ooh. if anyone has MSG, IT is up next on knicks gamenight, via conference call to explain why he made the trade. should be great. i'll try and recap.


----------



## MikeDC

SausageKingofChicago said:


> My guess is that Al Harrington would rather slam his nuts in a drawer than go from one 20 win team in Hotlanta to a 15 win team in TDot
> 
> Just a hunch


Last time I checked, the Raptors were playing roughly .500 ball after their atrocious start.

--------------------------

In any case, I damn near choked on my guacamole when I read this. Words almost can't describe the silliness of it all. 

In any case, I predict AD is a Bull again within the month. No way he goes to Toronto.

I also predict either Brown or Thomas is gone in a month.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

SausageKingofChicago said:


> VishFlog
> 
> Yeah I agree Peja may make some sense but I think they will just rent a shooter like Mo Pete for a further year before his contract expires
> 
> Peja's not a long term piece to build around anymore
> 
> I think better sense for Toronto and a better long term piece that complements Chris Bosh better is Joel Pryzibilla and I believe he just became Toronto's #1 free agency target this summer
> 
> If Toronto can come out of this draft with Rudy Gay and spend some dollars to buy Joel Pryzibilla and say a Jiri Welsch or a John Salmons in free agency ...then they are a lock to extend Chris Bosh ..irrespective of whether we have #1 and #10 to offer them
> 
> They'd still have a likely lottery pick in 2007 and around $12M to spend in cap room
> 
> Unfortunately this trade confirms that the Toronto front office has consolidated and has determined that Chris Bosh will be a Raptor for a long long time


I agree with you. I think I'm just hoping that they decide to spend a chunk on Peja to make it easier for us to have our pick of the other FAs (and also to further ensure Pax doesn't have a notion for bidding on him). Przy does make a lot of sense for them and if they don't go after Peja or baby Al, they can bid pretty high on his services. Really, if they could net both Peja and Joel, they'd have a pretty formidable and balanced frontcourt and they could turn all their attention to filling out the backcourt via the draft and whatever FA money they may have left. 

total bummer that they've put themselves in much better position to retain Bosh. He's probably off the table completely for the time being and maybe forever if they can find another piece or two in draft and FA this offseason.


----------



## mizenkay

ok, VERBATIM, the comments from IT.

_"this is about helping the present as well as the future."

"we have a lack of scoring or a void at SF position that's hampered us this year. we've tried to fill that position with different players. coach stressed that this is a person that he's coached before and that he can help us right now. so we're able to secure our present and help our present right now but also make our future much brighter. the player we're getting is a good player but also having two first round draft picks next year, that helps us to continue to rebuild our team. we've always said this is a rebuilding phase that we're in and we keep trying to acquire assets to help us in that process. and in doing that also helps secure our present also." _



just bizarre kinda monotone IT on the phone, never refers to jalen by name. and, says that it was larry who wanted rose. said nothing, nada, about losing AD.


----------



## rosenthall

Mikedc said:


> I also predict either Brown or Thomas is gone in a month.


Actually, the more I think about it, I think there's a good chance they'll both be gone pretty soon. 

Isiah Thomas is in a hell of a jam, both with the craptastic team he's built, and his troubles off the court, and the way things are going, I don't think he had too much longer before he got ousted, and I really don't see how this trade does anything to make that tangibly better, if at all. Seems like a cut and dry panic move to me. 

And I'm not sure if you could conceivably construct a team that was more ill-suited to Larry Brown. And his health is bad, and it looks like he's turned on his players and vice versa. And it's not like this trade makes anything better. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they're both gone by the end of the year.

Which of course begs the question, who else are they going to get to come in and clean up this mess?? Honestly, for a prospective coach or GM, it might be the biggest pool of quicksand I've ever seen.


----------



## DaBullz

SausageKingofChicago said:


> VishFlog
> 
> Yeah I agree Peja may make some sense but I think they will just rent a shooter like Mo Pete for a further year before his contract expires
> 
> Peja's not a long term piece to build around anymore
> 
> I think better sense for Toronto and a better long term piece that complements Chris Bosh better is Joel Pryzibilla and I believe he just became Toronto's #1 free agency target this summer
> 
> If Toronto can come out of this draft with Rudy Gay and spend some dollars to buy Joel Pryzibilla and say a Jiri Welsch or a John Salmons in free agency ...then they are a lock to extend Chris Bosh ..irrespective of whether we have #1 and #10 to offer them
> 
> They'd still have a likely lottery pick in 2007 and around $12M to spend in cap room
> 
> Unfortunately this trade confirms that the Toronto front office has consolidated and has determined that Chris Bosh will be a Raptor for a long long time


VishFlog

I like it

Can we call you SausKinoChi ?


----------



## DaBullz

I doubt AD comes back to chicago.

If he gets bought out, he can go anywhere. I'm sure he loved getting traded from here in the first place. NOT!

Does he want to start and play 20 minutes for a sub-.500 team? Or does he want to sign for the vets' minimum with the Suns or the Spurs or Detroit? Or Miami?

Heck, he'd be a terrific fit for the Lakers.


----------



## MikeDC

ShamBulls said:


> The Knicks just bought a draft pick for $34 million.
> 
> In the way that only they can.
> 
> Still, if Dolan keeps signing the checks, might as well.....


Really it was $17M... or whatever exactly Rose's salary is... they were already paying Davis so it's the net amount.

---------------

Larry Brown putting a game face on:



> Rose was not expected to play in the game -- Knicks coach Larry Brown thought it would be unfair to throw him into action immediately. *"He's exactly what we need," Brown said. "I think it's a no-brainer. I haven't seen a drop-off in his game."*


Huh.


----------



## spongyfungy

OOOh there's Jalen sitting on the Knicks bench in a nice brown suit.


----------



## mizenkay

oh god. jalen arrives at the game. will sit on the knicks bench. hugs all around. a very emotional moment. big smiles. 

"to say the knicks are desperate for a win is an understatement clyde"

lol.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

DaBullz said:


> I doubt AD comes back to chicago.
> 
> If he gets bought out, he can go anywhere. I'm sure he loved getting traded from here in the first place. NOT!
> 
> Does he want to start and play 20 minutes for a sub-.500 team? Or does he want to sign for the vets' minimum with the Suns or the Spurs or Detroit? Or Miami?
> 
> Heck, he'd be a terrific fit for the Lakers.


Being near his family is important to him, too - that's what gives us a chance. But there's only a few months left this season. If I were him I'd be tempted to suck it up and see if Detroit or SA want me for the minimum. Miami too, since both of their centers have had health concerns in recent years.


----------



## mizenkay

somehow i think AD will do whatever kendra tells him to do.













_picture shamelessly stolen from sham's site to give credit where credit is due._


----------



## johnston797

Mikedc said:


> Really it was $17M... or whatever exactly Rose's salary is... they were already paying Davis so it's the net amount..


Knicks are apparentely getting $3M from the Craptors so..... that would make it more like $14M. Getting more reasonable by the minute.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

mizenkay said:


> somehow i think AD will do whatever kendra tells him to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _picture shamelessly stolen from sham's site to give credit where credit is due._


Vicious Flogging indeed.


----------



## spongyfungy

ViciousFlogging said:


> Vicious Flogging indeed.


:rofl:


----------



## mizenkay

knicks down by 13 after one.

mo' pete takes the halfcourt desperation shot at the buzzer. _swish! it's good!_ 

cut to jalen in the knicks huddle smiling but then not really sure if he should be.


----------



## kukoc4ever

If the Knicks lose this one they will be 0-1 with Rose on the team.

What a cancer.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Mikedc said:


> Last time I checked, the Raptors were playing roughly .500 ball after their atrocious start.


Nonetheless a 20 - 25 team at best just like the team he's likely to leave for that reason

Short term prospects of being a winning ballclub in Toronto aren't great


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

DaBullz said:


> VishFlog
> 
> I like it
> 
> Can we call you SausKinoChi ?


Kinky Sausage is just fine


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

See ..Pete Vescey was right a season or so ago when he was tipping Isiah was intent on trying to acquire Jalen Rose


----------



## kukoc4ever

Raptors radio announcers claiming they are in a "stupor" about the trade.

Will AD suit up for the Raptors this weekend? That's the big question.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

mizenkay said:


> ok, VERBATIM, the comments from IT.
> 
> _"this is about helping the present as well as the future."
> 
> "we have a lack of scoring or a void at SF position that's hampered us this year. we've tried to fill that position with different players. coach stressed that this is a person that he's coached before and that he can help us right now. so we're able to secure our present and help our present right now but also make our future much brighter. the player we're getting is a good player but also having two first round draft picks next year, that helps us to continue to rebuild our team. we've always said this is a rebuilding phase that we're in and we keep trying to acquire assets to help us in that process. and in doing that also helps secure our present also." _
> 
> 
> 
> just bizarre kinda monotone IT on the phone, never refers to jalen by name. and, says that it was larry who wanted rose. said nothing, nada, about losing AD.


Two draft picks next year ?

I thought they were getting Denver's pick this year via Toronto 

He's already given us his draft pick this year and next year too in the pick swap 

Never mind..New York hasn't cared about draft picks since Patrick Ewing anyway

One question though ?

Lemme see

Rose, Crawford, Marbury, Richardson , Robinson.....

Where's Trevor Ariza going to get his minutes ?


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

In fact I hereby declare that Isiah from now on shall be referred to as Sugar Thomas ( at least by me ) 

Just because he gives it up so sweet


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

I love Jalen ..I really do 

Without a doubt he is the Clown Prince of the NBA 

High comedy value


----------



## mizenkay

i wondered about the "two draft picks" as well. i coulda sworn he said two cause he pluralized it.

but what other pick do they have?


----------



## lougehrig

Knicks down by 20 at the half after giving up 64 points! Luckily they have Jalen Rose to come in next game to help that effort. I mean he did guard MJ as he reminded us when he was traded. Although he did give up 81 to Kobe not to long ago. Gotta love the Knicks. Can't wait to enjoy their 2006 AND 2007 draft picks.


----------



## lougehrig

SausageKingofChicago said:


> I love Jalen ..I really do
> 
> Without a doubt he is the Clown Prince of the NBA
> 
> High comedy value


You sure that's not Isiah Thomas? Either way a close race.


----------



## johnston797

mizenkay said:


> i wondered about the "two draft picks" as well. i coulda sworn he said two cause he pluralized it.
> 
> but what other pick do they have?


The way I read it is ... they already had one pick (the worse of the Bulls\Knicks picks).... now they have two...


----------



## Jonathan

mizenkay said:


> i wondered about the "two draft picks" as well. i coulda sworn he said two cause he pluralized it.
> 
> but what other pick do they have?


They have San Antonio's pick, don't they?


----------



## Sham

They do.

And wow Jonathan, that's alot of championships.


----------



## Sham

Mikedc said:


> Really it was $17M... or whatever exactly Rose's salary is... they were already paying Davis so it's the net amount.




I'm not referring to any salary for this year, just next year. Rose is to earn $17 million ish. Double that in the dollar for dollar tax, and that's just short of 34 fat ones that they're now spending that they weren't. 

Even Dolan's pockets bottom out somewhere.

Surely?


----------



## Sham

johnston797 said:


> Knicks are apparentely getting $3M from the Craptors so..... that would make it more like $14M. Getting more reasonable by the minute.



3 million doesn't go very far when offsetting 34. You have to wonder why the Knicks asked for that added bonus. Purely speculative - although slightly based in fact given Dolan's comments about trading for Jalen a while back - but maybe Dolan's capping the spending after this? If so, what happens to the MLE? Especially with so few roster spots? (I.e., none.)

And if this trade cost them an MLE, is it not just bloody daft?


----------



## lougehrig

ShamBulls said:


> They do.
> 
> And wow Jonathan, that's alot of championships.


I am the Yar's Revenge champion.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Jonathan said:


> They have San Antonio's pick, don't they?


Yah 

I forgot about that

So they will be picking say #22 and #29


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> No approval needed.
> 
> Its just interesting that the Toronto fans don't have such a violent and belligerently negative opinion of Rose.
> 
> I enjoy hearing different viewpoints. Call me crazy.
> 
> Its interesting that so many Chicago fans were so thrilled to get that vile cancer off their team at all costs, while that just does not seem to be the case for Toronto.


Yup. We should also note Knicks fans' displeasure with Curry. It's interesting a portion of Chicago fans are still longing for Curry while Knicks fans can't wait to get rid of him and his bloated contract.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

lougehrig said:


> You sure that's not Isiah Thomas? Either way a close race.


:laugh:


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Yup. We should also note Knicks fans' displeasure with Curry. It's interesting a portion of Chicago fans are still longing for Curry while Knicks fans can't wait to get rid of him and his bloated contract.



The Raptors radio announcers are gushing about what a solid game Curry is having and that Curry usually "kills" them when he comes to Toronto.


----------



## nanokooshball

wow.... more and more now I can see how much our team better our team is going to be after 2007

a top 3 pick in 2006, and most likely a lottery pick in 2007 with the possibility of landing GREG OGDEN.... even if we don't, I heard that the 07 draft is quite amazing

and this all with already have a decent team.... imagine that our team could be a perrenial contender after 2007 for the next 10 or so years.... all because of Isiah


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> The Raptors radio announcers are gushing about what a solid game Curry is having and that Curry usually "kills" them when he comes to Toronto.


Who do you think sees Curry more: Raptors radio announcers or Knick fans?


----------



## unBULLievable

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> The Raptors radio announcers are gushing about what a solid game Curry is having and that Curry usually "kills" them when he comes to Toronto.



Boy ,I almost creamed my pants......


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Here's one question I haven't seen asked in this thread: why not Penny instead of AD?

I mean, do the Raptors really expect Davis to contribute to a positive environment on the team after his comments last time he left? I think they must be expecting to buy him out. And I really expect him to come back to Chicago, being that his family never moved out to NY with him and is still living in Western suburbs.


----------



## Frankensteiner

If the Knicks manage to keep this loss under 15 points, they'll have the benefit of knowing that Jalen Rose and his 14.7 career scoring average is on the way.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> Who do you think sees Curry more: Raptors radio announcers or Knick fans?


Can you point me to a reputable sample of Knicks fans where I can clearly see that a majority agree with what you said?


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> It's interesting a portion of Chicago fans are still longing for Curry


47 wins.


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Can you point me to a reputable sample of Knicks fans where I can clearly see that a majority agree with what you said?


http://www.knickerblogger.net/


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> 47 wins.


14-30 (.318).


----------



## bullsville

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*

Tonight thru 3 quarters, the Knicks are shooting .523 from the field, .545 on 3's (6-11), and they have been to the FT line 29 times.

Yet they are down 13.

I don't think Jalen is the cure to their ills, unless the body-snatchers came to Earth and replaced him with an alien lookalike that plays defense...


----------



## RoRo

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



bullsville said:


> Tonight thru 3 quarters, the Knicks are shooting .523 from the field, .545 on 3's (6-11), and they have been to the FT line 29 times.
> 
> Yet they are down 13.
> 
> I don't think Jalen is the cure to their ills, unless the body-snatchers came to Earth and replaced him with an alien lookalike that plays defense...


geez, with a chance to get the lead down to single digits crawford with a lazy pass turnover and then qyntel with a charge. meanwhile villanueva drains a three and bosh pops a j on curry. lead 16.


----------



## Frankensteiner

I liked this from the Knicks blog:



> they added a guy who is the exact opposite of what NYK needs: a veteran player who complains a lot, dominates the ball, turns it over a lot, and doesn’t defend.


----------



## lougehrig

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



bullsville said:


> Tonight thru 3 quarters, the Knicks are shooting .523 from the field, .545 on 3's (6-11), and they have been to the FT line 29 times.
> 
> Yet they are down 13.
> 
> I don't think Jalen is the cure to their ills, unless the body-snatchers came to Earth and replaced him with an alien lookalike that plays defense...


If you listen to Isiah about the trade he said that lack of scoring at the small forward position is a major reason they have failed this year. Haha. They are giving up 102 a game. The guy is a complete moron.


----------



## lougehrig

Frankensteiner said:


> If the Knicks manage to keep this loss under 15 points, they'll have the benefit of knowing that Jalen Rose and his 14.7 career scoring average is on the way.


Yeah but he gives up 25 a game (one time he even game up 81 in a game so I've heard).


----------



## lougehrig

nanokooshball said:


> wow.... more and more now I can see how much our team better our team is going to be after 2007
> 
> a top 3 pick in 2006, and most likely a lottery pick in 2007 with the possibility of landing GREG OGDEN.... even if we don't, I heard that the 07 draft is quite amazing
> 
> and this all with already have a decent team.... imagine that our team could be a perrenial contender after 2007 for the next 10 or so years.... all because of Isiah


Hopefully we can put the rest the following debates. 1. Crawford trade was bad for the Bulls 2. Curry trade was bad for the Bulls


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Just thought I'd point it out that with Atlanta winning tonight and Toronto beating New York ... Chicago has ( by record ) the #2 pick in the draft right now 

And with all that's going on in New York with IT and Larry etc ...it's only looking better for Chicago 

We're definately a lock for a top 5 pick 

Hmmmm.

Lemme see 

Aldridge, Gay, Barganni , Tyrus the Virus or Morrison ?


----------



## rosenthall

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Just thought I'd point it out that with Atlanta winning tonight and Toronto beating New York ... Chicago has ( by record ) the #2 pick in the draft right now
> 
> And with all that's going on in New York with IT and Larry etc ...it's only looking better for Chicago
> 
> We're definately a lock for a top 5 pick
> 
> Hmmmm.
> 
> Lemme see
> 
> Aldridge, Gay, Barganni , Tyrus the Virus or Morrison ?


I must admit, my feelings towards Isiah Thomas have more or less done a 180.

Between 

A). Giving the Bulls 2 likely top 5 picks in the next two years

B). Providing me with the approximate 30-40 hours, 40+ threads, and 3-4 thousand posts of reading material on this board, and the probable same amount that will come in the future, as well as turning himself into a very convenient pariah, he has done quite a bit to improve the quality of my existence.

I think I need more Isiah Thomas in my life.





In fact, by the time we take their draft pick next year, I think the members of this board should send Isiah a homemade thank you card for all the fun we've had at his expense.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

rosenthall said:


> I must admit, my feelilngs towards Isiah Thomas have more or less done a 180.
> 
> Between
> 
> A). Giving the Bulls 2 likely top 5 picks in the next two years
> 
> B). Providing me with the approximate 30-40 hours, 40+ threads, and 3-4 thousand posts of reading material on this board, and the probable same amount that will come in the future, as well as turning himself into a very convenient pariah, he has done quite a bit to improve the quality of my existence.
> 
> I think I need more Isiah Thomas in my life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, by the time we take their draft pick next year, I think the members of this board should send Isiah a homemade thank you card for all the fun we've had at his expense.


:laugh:

This is freaking hilarious

We should definately co-ordinate a bouquet of flowers and a thank you card that we all sign from the Chicago Bulls fan gang at Basketballboards.Net 

I'll pay for the flowers myself


----------



## Showtyme

SausageKingofChicago said:


> :laugh:
> 
> This is freaking hilarious
> 
> We should definately co-ordinate a bouquet of flowers and a thank you card that we all sign from the Chicago Bulls fan gang at Basketballboards.Net
> 
> I'll pay for the flowers myself


I concur. I'm in for the basket of flowers.

Honestly, I think that NY will benefit in the short term, just from the change of scenery. Maybe Jamal Crawford is the true GM over in Gotham.


----------



## T.Shock

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Can you point me to a reputable sample of Knicks fans where I can clearly see that a majority agree with what you said?


I go to school here in New York and let me tell you, every Knick fan on this campus hates Curry and Crawford. One, in particular, said that if the Bulls win a championship in the next five years, Isiah Thomas should be named MVP. Curry would have helped us, but we have a lot of cap space, two first round picks, and a multitude of tradeable assets. Curry on the Knicks, ummmm not such a good idea for an entire team that doesnt play defense.


----------



## ScottMay

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



T.Shock said:


> I go to school here in New York and let me tell you, every Knick fan on this campus hates Curry and Crawford. One, in particular, said that if the Bulls win a championship in the next five years, Isiah Thomas should be named MVP. Curry would have helped us, but we have a lot of cap space, two first round picks, and a multitude of tradeable assets. Curry on the Knicks, ummmm not such a good idea for an entire team that doesnt play defense.


Between friends, work, and rotisserie leagues, I speak pretty regularly with about two dozen Knicks' season-ticket holders. One is virulently anti-Curry, two like him but think he doesn't have much upside, and the rest range between outright loving him and thinking he and Frye are the only worthwhile pieces the Knicks have.

If you're talking about Crawford, that's another story (most don't like him). But Curry? I'm not seeing much dislike at all.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



ScottMay said:


> Between friends, work, and rotisserie leagues, I speak pretty regularly with about two dozen Knicks' season-ticket holders. One is virulently anti-Curry, two like him but think he doesn't have much upside, and the rest range between outright loving him and thinking he and Frye are the only worthwhile pieces the Knicks have.
> 
> If you're talking about Crawford, that's another story (most don't like him). But Curry? I'm not seeing much dislike at all.



Young University students versus professional working people with disposable income ...you would think the latter subgroup would have even more reason to lock and load in frustration as to "the product"

Sometimes however hope is all you've got

We should know...we've been there and perhaps are still there anyway


----------



## ScottMay

Sham,

I haven't seen any comments from Dolan about today's trade. On what are you basing the notion that he's all of a sudden looking to pinch pennies?

It's inconceivable to me that he'd prohibit his GM from using the full MLE each and every year. While the Knicks probably do "lose" money when accounted strictly using their share of BRI vs. player personnel and staff salaries, in a broader net corporate sense, they are a gold mine.


----------



## Rhyder

ShamBulls said:


> Yeah, but -
> 
> Denver losing more means the pick falls within the boundaries of protection, meaning they keep it, meaning the Knicks dont get it, meaning they don't get the chance to improve the roster, meaning their 2006.07 team gets worse, meaning the swap is more likely.
> 
> Right?


I hadn't read the trade details when I posted that, but I did not know there was a protection clause on the pick. Is it lottery protected?


----------



## ScottMay

Rhyder said:


> I hadn't read the trade details when I posted that, but I did not know there was a protection clause on the pick. Is it lottery protected?


If it's Denver's own pick that the Knicks are getting, it's protected 1-5 this year, 1-2 in 2007, and unprotected in 2008. 

http://www.nba.com/nets/news/kenyon_040715.html

So realistically, we want Denver to win and win a lot (Denver would literally have to lose all of their remaining games to have strong odds to finish with a top 5 pick).


----------



## rosenthall

ScottMay said:


> Sham,
> 
> I haven't seen any comments from Dolan about today's trade. On what are you basing the notion that he's all of a sudden looking to pinch pennies?
> 
> It's inconceivable to me that he'd prohibit his GM from using the full MLE each and every year. While the Knicks probably do "lose" money when accounted strictly using their share of BRI vs. player personnel and staff salaries, in a broader net corporate sense, they are a gold mine.


Yeah. If anything, I would think this trade would signify that the Knicks are still operating on a blank checkbook. I mean, they basically just agreed to pay another 34 million dollars for what will probably amount to a 20 something draft pick and................Jalen Rose. Not what I would call a cost-effective MO.


----------



## UMfan83

I can't believe that anyone would say this trade makes either team better. Jalen is not as bad as some are making him out to be, but hes absolutely the worst type of player the Knicks need. I've given up trying to understand Isiah, hasn't he realized that shoot first, no D players just isnt working out for him?

Anyways, this move has strong ramifications for the Bulls. I'd give it about an 85% chance of AD being on the Bulls a week from today. It's time for the people that said AD was the bigger loss in the Curry trade to find out if they were right.

I wonder if the Bulls would have jumped into the trade and gotten Davis for Tim Thomas. Either that or Paxson just flat out isn't talking to Isiah after he screwed Pax over last fall.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



Frankensteiner said:


> 14-30 (.318).


Is that Al Harrington's team or Joel Przybilla's?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2318118

"Don't be surprised if the United Center, site of his unforgettable rush into the stands earlier this month, once again becomes Antonio Davis' home court.

Yet that's only one possibility after Davis was dealt Friday to the Toronto Raptors for Jalen Rose.

Davis is scheduled to meet Saturday morning with acting Raptors general manager Wayne Embry, who wants Davis to finish the season in Toronto to mentor Embry's young players.

It's believed that Davis will ask Embry to be released so he can join the club of his choice as a free agent, with the Bulls -- who dealt Davis to New York in October as part of the Eddy Curry deal -- at the top of Davis' list. Should Davis and Embry agree to a parting, it remains to be seen if the Bulls -- who have been undersized ever since parting with Davis and Curry -- remain interested in bringing Davis back like they were shortly after the trade with New York was made.

The Raptors, though, might also want to keep Davis to see if they can use his expiring contract (worth $13.9 million this season) as a trade chip before the league's Feb. 23 trading deadline.

If Davis, 37, were to negotiate a buyout with Toronto, he would be eligible to play in the playoffs for another team as long as he's signed by March 1. Chicago is where Davis' family calls home … and where the president of the NBA Players Association leapt over the scorer's table in overtime of a Knicks-Bulls game on Jan. 18 to charge into the crowd when he saw his wife, Kendra, in a dispute with a nearby Bulls fan. The NBA suspended Davis for five games for his actions, costing him just over $630,000 in salary."

-- Marc Stein


----------



## kukoc4ever

AD is coming back?

Sweet, our losing ways will turn around soon. 

AD is back to save the season. Sweet.

(i'll be happy to have the old fella back. he has heart.)


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

UMfan83 said:


> I can't believe that anyone would say this trade makes either team better. Jalen is not as bad as some are making him out to be, but hes absolutely the worst type of player the Knicks need. I've given up trying to understand Isiah, hasn't he realized that shoot first, no D players just isnt working out for him?
> 
> Anyways, this move has strong ramifications for the Bulls. I'd give it about an 85% chance of AD being on the Bulls a week from today. It's time for the people that said AD was the bigger loss in the Curry trade to find out if they were right.
> 
> I wonder if the Bulls would have jumped into the trade and gotten Davis for Tim Thomas. Either that or Paxson just flat out isn't talking to Isiah after he screwed Pax over last fall.


You seriously think Isiah made Pax his gimp?

Wow

I guess say the #5 pick from this draft and the #10 pick in next year's draft is a pretty raw deal for Eddy Curry when we will likely still go the playoffs without him

Geez Louise ..if we walked away with Rudy Gay and say Patrick O'Bryant / Cedric Simmons for Eddy Curry ..given the circumstances of the trade at the time ...I think I'd be hard until I'm a 100


----------



## ChiBulls2315

Darius Miles Davis said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2318118
> 
> 
> 
> The Raptors, though, might also want to keep Davis to see if they can use his expiring contract (worth $13.9 million this season) as a trade chip before the league's Feb. 23 trading deadline.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Marc Stein



I think that's the most likely scenario. The Raptors now have their cap space. But mise well wait a few more weeks to see if they can cash in early on a prize. 

I don't know much about Embry though. Will he play hard ball with AD or give him his walking papers when the time comes? I hope he suits up at least once to see the crowd reaction though.


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



kukoc4ever said:


> Is that Al Harrington's team or Joel Przybilla's?


Nope, it's actually the record of the Crawford and Curry led Knicks.

Speaking of Al Harrington,

Curry PER: 17.4

Harrington PER: 17.4


----------



## narek

Speculation that Davis is coming back here from McGraw:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp



> The New York Knicks traded Antonio Davis back to Toronto on Friday for Jalen Rose and a first-round draft pick.
> 
> But Davis’ ultimate destination may be back to the Bulls, five months after he was reluctantly sent to New York in the Eddy Curry deal.
> 
> Unless the Raptors have another trade in mind for Davis, a contract buyout seems to be the most logical outcome. Davis was very unpopular in Toronto by the time he was traded to the Bulls — for Rose, no less, on Nov. 29, 2003 — because he admitted his family had grown tired of living in Canada.
> 
> If the 37-year-old power forward is set free by Toronto, the likelihood of the Bulls inviting him back is virtually 100 percent.
> 
> An informal survey of the Bulls’ key players indicated a strong desire for Davis to return if he becomes a free agent.
> 
> Responses ranged from an enthusiastic yes to “he’d be welcomed with open arms” to “everyone in this locker room would like to have him back.” Only one player wouldn’t commit either way, saying, “It’s not my decision.”
> 
> *Davis probably won’t be anxious to suit up for Toronto again. And don’t be surprised if the Raptors asked for Davis, instead of Penny Hardaway’s expiring contract, with the strategy of saving a few million dollars in a contract settlement*.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Malik Allen wouldn't comment either way huh ?

He's a bad egg


----------



## Sham

> picture shamelessly stolen from sham's site to give credit where credit is due.



Well I didn't take the photo, I nicked it too. But keep that to yourself :uhoh:




ScottMay said:


> Sham,
> 
> I haven't seen any comments from Dolan about today's trade. On what are you basing the notion that he's all of a sudden looking to pinch pennies?
> 
> It's inconceivable to me that he'd prohibit his GM from using the full MLE each and every year. While the Knicks probably do "lose" money when accounted strictly using their share of BRI vs. player personnel and staff salaries, in a broader net corporate sense, they are a gold mine.




Nah it wasn't today, it was a while ago, when the rumour first came out. Dolan was hesitant about spending this money for what he apparently considered an insufficient return. I guess Isiah won him over. Give me a moment and I'll see if I can find it.


----------



## Sham

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38435/20051226/dolan_almost_to_his_payroll_limit/




> Two league sources, however, told The Post that James Dolan is almost up to his limit — that he's no longer willing to be Santa Claus and he's reluctant to add much to his already league-high $119 million payroll for only a marginal boost.
> 
> The Knicks have had the chance to obtain Toronto's Jalen Rose for the expiring contract of Penny Hardaway since November, for example, but have resisted making the move. Thomas is trying to squeeze at least one unprotected first-round pick and $3 million from Toronto to lessen the burden of adding $34 million of combined payroll and luxury tax.
> 
> Rose, 32, is an adept slashing scorer who could be the Knicks' starting small forward. But he's a poor defender and wouldn't transform the team from a lottery club into one that's a lock for the playoffs. Nor does Rose fit the profile of a player who fits into Thomas' proclaimed rebuilding program — a plan so flawed that the Knicks probably are unable to keep their lottery pick in the next two drafts because of the trade that brought Eddy Curry from Chicago.
> 
> "Mr. Dolan said he'll do anything he can to help us win," Brown said in a quiet moment away from the cameras and horde of writers. "He said that to me when I got the job. He said to me, he'll do anything he can. I'm confident if there's something out there that makes us better, we'll do it because everybody feels strongly about making us the best team."
> 
> If Dolan is uneager to add payroll, it's hard to blame him. Beyond the $119 million payroll, he's on the hook for about $43 million in luxury tax — even after a reduction from Allan Houston's medical retirement.
> 
> Dolan is shelling out more than $9 million per year for Brown and paying a league-high six assistant coaches. He is also still paying former GM Scott Layden's final year of salary ($6 million) and of course, Thomas' own salary.
> 
> All that for a record tied for the league's second worst. Merry Christmas, Jim.
> 
> "The resources are there," said Dolan during training camp. "But we have to use it wisely and not waste."




I guess the three million was enough to win him over. I'm still sceptical though on their MLE chances.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

ShamBulls said:


> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38435/20051226/dolan_almost_to_his_payroll_limit/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the three million was enough to win him over. I'm still sceptical though on their MLE chances.


Nice pick up Sham 

The MLE is supposed to be to keep Ariza in the fold .... they could spend their exceptions on Ariza and Woods but where will they play on the wings ?

Rose , Richardson , Crawford, Robinson , Marbury....

Frye, Taylor Lee and Rose at PF 

Curry , James and Butler at Center

They will have two 1st round draft picks to add ( that will be a waste anyway as Brown won't play them..say Dee Brown and ?? ) 

Anyway ..it would make more sense to retain QWoo with the lower exception and maybe take Hassan Adams with the other pick to round out the perimeter rotation 

Then try and land a big with the MLE 

Either way I think Ariza will be out in the open and the Bulls should consider making a play for him


----------



## dkg1

rlucas4257 said:


> Davis going back to Toronto is hilarious. He deserves it, after bashing that city as much as he did. Toronto is a great place. Have fun in Canada Antonio and Kendra


I'm sure A.D. is real happy he believed Isiah and Larry Brown when they talked him into staying in NY after the trade. If I recall correctly, if AD didn't want to stay there, it was expected they would end up releasing him?


----------



## narek

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Malik Allen wouldn't comment either way huh ?
> 
> He's a bad egg


 :biggrin: 

The Sun-Times just speculates - no hint of talking to any players, but Sam Smith finally wrote about it: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...9feb04,1,5379652.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed



> Davis' value as an aging 37-year-old veteran is not generally high, especially with the remainder of his $13.9 million contract something a team would have to assume in trade.
> 
> The Raptors could release Davis, but that might prove unpopular. The team was criticized and general manager Rob Babcock recently was fired, in part, for letting Alonzo Mourning go after the Vince Carter trade. The Raptors are saying they look toward Davis as a veteran who will help their young players and that Davis won't walk away from the last season of his most lucrative contract.
> 
> Because Davis lives in the Chicago area, wants to return to the Bulls and hopes to work for the organization after his playing career is over, here's a likely scenario:
> 
> The Bulls trade Thomas to the Raptors for Davis because their salaries are almost equal. It doesn't seem likely the Bulls will get a better offer for Thomas, who also was in the Curry trade, after all this time.
> 
> The Raptors don't necessarily need Thomas with a young team and might release him so he can catch on with a contender. Perhaps they could pick up a few hundred thousand dollars from a buyout. Thomas makes about $100,000 more than Davis, so the Bulls could make that up and throw in a second-round draft pick.
> 
> With two first-round draft picks this year and a young roster, the Bulls hardly need second-round picks. The Bulls would love to have Davis back to fortify their front-line defense and lend support to Tyson Chandler. And the Raptors could come away with a savings of about $14 million (the difference between Rose's 2006-07 contract and about $3 million in cash to the Knicks), cash from the Bulls and a draft pick.





> But the Bulls never have been league favorites because of the team's long-ago suit against the NBA to stay on superstation WGN-TV and the organization's lack of interest in a WNBA team.
> 
> So, despite denials from both teams, the league quietly informed the Knicks there would be penalties if they released Davis and he returned to the Bulls. The league couldn't officially stop it and Davis is president of the players' association, so he likely would have won a grievance.
> 
> But at the time Davis didn't want to move yet again and the Knicks, under one of Davis' former coaches, Larry Brown, assured Davis they wouldn't uproot him against his will. The Knicks wanted to play their younger interior players more and didn't want Davis on the roster, but they feared league retribution.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Sam Smith said:


> Davis' value as an aging 37-year-old veteran is not generally high, especially with the remainder of his $13.9 million contract something a team would have to assume in trade.


Not high?

Some feel he's what we need to turn this season around. If we had him, we would not be in this mess.

That kind of impact player *has* to have a high value.


----------



## Sham

Would this be a good time to tell Sam Smith that the Bulls CAN'T trade for AD? The CBA prohibits it.


----------



## narek

ShamBulls said:


> Would this be a good time to tell Sam Smith that the Bulls CAN'T trade for AD? The CBA prohibits it.


Sam has a long, happy, profitable history of being wrong without ever admitting it. I'm sure he got emails right after that went up, but don't expect a correction. I can't wait for his next trade scenario, I'm sure it'll involve Duhon.


----------



## mizenkay

toronto star 


*"I really don't want to talk about it, to tell you the truth," Davis said in a short telephone interview last night from a Toronto hotel. "I just don't want to talk right now."

However, it is widely expected Davis will ultimately report to the Raptors for several reasons. He is still owed almost $7 million (all figures U.S.) in salary for this season and could forfeit it if he doesn't report; sources indicate he'd like to play at least another year after this one and wouldn't likely get a sniff if he didn't finish out the season; and he has a close relationship with Raptor coach Sam Mitchell.

"We think he is (going to report) but you never know until he gets here," Embry said of Davis.*


----------



## mizenkay

how....original!



















ny post 



> Knick owner James Dolan was unwilling to pay a couple of million bucks to make a sexual-harassment lawsuit against his team president disappear.
> 
> But yesterday, Dolan signed off on a deal to bring in defensively deficient, 33-year-old Jalen Rose — a move that will cost Dolan $34 million in future payroll, including luxury tax.
> 
> *In what smacks of a diversionary attempt by the franchise to get Knick fans talking basketball and not lawsuits, president Isiah Thomas obtained Rose from Toronto for maligned Antonio Davis, whose wife, Kendra, was charged this week in Illinois with misdemeanor battery for throwing a cup of coffee.*
> 
> The Knicks also get a likely mid-first-round pick (Denver's, via Toronto), and $3 million in the exchange to help pay Rose's maximum salary. The trade was announced two hours before the Knicks' 104-90 blowout loss to the Raptors at AirCanada Centre, their 10th defeat in their past 11 games.





daily news 



> Isiah Thomas' rebuilding plan just cost the Knicks another $34 million and probably cost some of the team's younger players valuable minutes.
> 
> The Knicks' two-year pursuit of Jalen Rose ended yesterday when Thomas acquired the veteran small forward and a first-round pick from the Toronto Raptors for Antonio Davis, who never wanted to be in New York in the first place.
> 
> Rose fills a need for a scoring forward, but the deal raises serious questions about whether it will only delay the development of David Lee, Jamal Crawford, Qyntel Woods and Trevor Ariza, just to name a few. *Also, the timing of the trade leaves open the possibility that Thomas, who is embroiled in controversy, pulled a "wag the dog" move by diverting attention away from himself.*




:laugh:


----------



## McBulls

kukoc4ever said:


> Not high?
> 
> Some feel he's what we need to turn this season around. If we had him, we would not be in this mess.
> 
> That kind of impact player *has* to have a high value.


New York is already missing him. Look at what happened to the Knicks in the last few games without AD. Their interior defense and rebounding are probably now the worst in the league.

It's hard to see how AD would not be a significant improvement over Malik Allen for spot minutes in the front court. My guess is that he is still better than O Harrington for the starting spot as well. 

AD will add strength to areas of the Bulls team that they are weak in. No, he is not a a strong post-up scorer anymore. But he would make the Bulls a better team.


----------



## narek

mizenkay said:


> daily news


There's a quote in the Daily News Article:



> The deal is a typical Thomas trade: move a player with an expiring contract for a player with a longer deal. Although that formula has backfired spectacularly for Thomas since he replaced Scott Layden more than two years ago, he continues to repeat the same mistake.


Let's hope he keeps making that mistake for another season after this. 

As for Davis wanting to play another season, I'd think Pax would keep him around. I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed part of the Bulls organization after he retires as long as Kendra doesn't become an issue.


----------



## Ron Cey

Hate on Isiah all you guys want. Lord knows I do. His abject failure as the GM of the Knicks tickles me to no end.

But this isn't a bad trade for the Knicks. AD wasn't getting much run and Curry and Frye need the Minutes. Also, they didn't have a starting sf, but now they do. Plus a much needed draft pick.

Rose isn't going to take that team anywhere important this year or next, and he does further add to existing flaws, but he is a marginal improvement and he comes with a draft pick.

Good trade for both teams.


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## truebluefan

they wil get hot once in a while and outscore some teams they are not suppose to beat. NY gets a draft pick. I dont understand why Toronto did that.


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## The Truth

truebluefan said:


> they wil get hot once in a while and outscore some teams they are not suppose to beat. NY gets a draft pick. I dont understand why Toronto did that.



The draft pick isn't their own, it's by way of Denver. Not to mention, the upcoming draft looks to be very weak.

Toronto made the deal because they were desperate to clear cap space. They had to give up the pick to convince another team to take on Jalen Rose and his mammoth contract.


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## mizenkay

i'm not hatin' on IT, i'm just *realin'* :smilewink

i just love the fact that the knicks beat writers, including liz robbins at the times, brought up the "wag the dog" angle about this trade. hilarious.

and does anyone REALLY believe that jalen was high on larry's radar after all the bemoaning about the knicks' defensive deficiencies? i mean how sedated was he?


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## speedythief

kukoc4ever said:


> Most of the Raptors fans on the Raps board seem pretty POed at the trade.
> Why don't they hate Jalen like so many Chicago fans did?


There is a poll on the Raps board right now and only one Raptors fan has voted against liking Rose and his tenure in Toronto. I don't know who the other two voters are but they aren't Raptors board posters.

In general Rose didn't give us much to dislike. He played well when he was here, he said the right things, he acted professionally. I think most people saw him as a rented player who would never fit our long-term plans and gave him a lot of slack as a result. There were times this season when his play was down but he continued to work hard and eventually got himself back into the rotation.

Some would like to see him return to Toronto when his contract is up.


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## spongyfungy

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bull042.html



> It looks as if *Antonio Davis* will be available soon, which means it's possible he may yet return to the Bulls.
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the headache that would pose for Bulls executives trying to figure out where to sit Davis' wife, *Kendra*, at the United Center.
> 
> Those scenarios gained new life Friday after Davis was traded from the New York Knicks to the Toronto Raptors for *Jalen Rose,* a first-round draft pick and cash.
> 
> *Toronto wanted Davis' expiring contract, but it's almost certain Davis won't play one game for the Raptors. There's speculation he'll be able to work a buyout.*


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## TripleDouble

Despite all the love for Davis' intangibles, his plus/minus is pretty horrible this year. He's 3rd worst on the team at -14.7.


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## nanokooshball

TripleDouble said:


> Despite all the love for Davis' intangibles, his plus/minus is pretty horrible this year. He's 3rd worst on the team at -14.7.


probably because he didnt bother trying on the knicks


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## DaBullz

nanokooshball said:


> probably because he didnt bother trying on the knicks


Either that or he's just really old.


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## UMfan83

SausageKingofChicago said:


> You seriously think Isiah made Pax his gimp?
> 
> Wow
> 
> I guess say the #5 pick from this draft and the #10 pick in next year's draft is a pretty raw deal for Eddy Curry when we will likely still go the playoffs without him
> 
> Geez Louise ..if we walked away with Rudy Gay and say Patrick O'Bryant / Cedric Simmons for Eddy Curry ..given the circumstances of the trade at the time ...I think I'd be hard until I'm a 100


No, I definitely think we made out well in that deal. I was refering to the wink wink deal he supposedly had with Isiah to return AD that never occured.


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## kukoc4ever

Record with current team as GM

Genius GM: (90-119) (.430)
Failure GM: (76-105) (.420)


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## transplant

Wow! Lot of action in a short amount of time on this one.

IMO, this trade makes sense for both teams. AD's expiring contract didn't do the Knicks much good. They're in cap hell regardless. As a player, Rose has more utility for NY more than AD did. I understand that there are many on this board who think Rose is "a cancer," but I'm not one of them. Rose is just a one-way player whose self-evaluation of his ability is out of step with reality. He can still do some good things offensively.

Toronto unloaded a nearly unloadable contract, and unlike the Knicks, can conceivably do something positive for their team with the cap space.

In truth, market-value-wise, you're looking at a trade of 2 guys who are worth vet minimum to something less than MLE. Kudos to both their agents.


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## Sham

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Geez Louise ..if we walked away with Rudy Gay and say Patrick O'Bryant / Cedric Simmons for Eddy Curry ..given the circumstances of the trade at the time ...I think I'd be hard until I'm a 100



That would explain the username, then. :uhoh:


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## mizenkay

http://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/shownews.jsp?content=s020433A



> It seems like Antonio Davis is set to join the Toronto Raptors for a second time.
> 
> The big forward, acquired Friday in a deal that sent Jalen Rose, a first-round draft pick and cash to the New York Knicks, took a physical Saturday morning and then headed to his New York home to handle some personal matters.
> 
> He also planned to visit Chicago to talk things over with wife Kendra.
> 
> The Raptors expect him back Monday or Tuesday.
> 
> "He's a professional and he's going to honour his contract," said Raptors coach Sam Mitchell. "He's the president of the players' association, he's going to do the right thing. He understands the business of basketball.
> 
> "We're happy to have him."
> 
> The speculation was that Davis would not report to the Raptors.


----------



## Philomath

Interesting article on Chicagosports.net about AD's recent history. Sam Smith flat out says the NBA had read media reports of the Knicks/Bulls trade that led them to think there was a deal to release AD, and that they "quietly" warned the Knicks not to release AD after trade or face punishment -probably mafia-like punishment? - "despite denials by both teams." Good stuff by Sam. Makes sense - Isiah could have called Pax and said "I feel terrible, but I can't release AD - Stern told me he's on to us and will dock us both draft picks if I do it. Sorry John, I really feel badly about it but there's nothing I can do." Looks like they didn't just screw Pax over, which was kinda hard to believe to start with. Smith also said the NBA doesn't like the Bulls due to the lawsuit to stay on WGN and their lack of interest in a WNBA team. (Which may explain the unexpected push to get one a couple of years ago.) 

Hey, the Knicks were set to release AD - wanted to release him, according to Smith. So, compare that to getting what is still a useful player plus an undoubtedly high first round pick from Toronto instead of getting zippo... I think that's great for them. All they give up is some monopoly money. They are hopelessly over the cap forever, and probably don't care any more and have come to terms with their permanent luxury tax status. If Rose should happen to turn out to be a negative, release him like you would have released AD and pocket the inevitable top 10 pick.

To restate the obvious, money doesn't matter in NY. With the luxury tax, Rose's extra year will cost them about $34 million. Maybe they wouldn't mind sending 1% of that to me, as long as they're spreading money around. Maybe I'll ask.


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## lgtwins

kukoc4ever said:


> Record with current team as GM
> 
> Genius GM: (90-119) (.430)
> Failure GM: (76-105) (.420)


Kudo to your constant effort!!!!

I still take Paxon as my Bulls' GM over IT any day of the week. 

Thank you very much.


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## T.Shock

kukoc4ever said:


> Record with current team as GM
> 
> Genius GM: (90-119) (.430)
> Failure GM: (76-105) (.420)


Playoff Appearances
Genius GM: 1
Failure GM: 0

Cap Space
Genius GM: A vast amount
Failure GM: None until 2009

Draft Picks
Genius GM: Two potential lottery picks
Failure GM: Two low-round picks

Current Record:
Genius GM: 9th in the East
Failure GM: 14th in the East

Yea IT is definitely a better GM than John Paxson. I swear sometimes you just make reading threads a chore.


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## SausageKingofChicago

The thing I can't work out ...if they truly believed they needed help at the small forward position and if there was an element of subterfuge going on with IT's troubles ...given that Spree was so loved in New York ( maybe not inside the organisation but by the fanbase at least ) wouldn't it have made far more sense to bring him and 

1. Get a better player that fits a need - slashing /scorer defender at the 3 

2. For $20M less ( by the time you take total cost of L Tax penalties and salary ) 

3. Not alienate Trevor Ariza in the process who I think they have put themselves into grave risk of losing 

The Knicks suck and ship AD so Frye and Curry can play more minutes . Fine . So why not just persist with Q and Woods and the 3 , Crawford , Robinson and Marbury at guard and let Ariza develop as the slasher wing defender that they really need ?

They'll regret losing Ariza 

Sczcerbiak was up for grabs and I would have tried to obtain him and filler like Madsen ( expiring contract ) and the Wolves pick for Marbury 

Would then have tried to deal Richardson and the spurs pick ( late 1st round ) for Andre Miller 

And still signed Spree to the $5M that he is supposed to be asking for 

That would have given the Knicks 

*

Curry
Frye
Sczcerbiak
Sprewell
Miller

bench

James
Taylor
Ariza
Robinson
Crawford

Lee
Ager ( say with Minnesota's pick at #15 )

*

Much better balanced team and a team that could perhaps legitimately compete

Denver gets an explosive shooting guard they need in Richardson and a point say like Dee Brown with the Knicks pick to platoon the point with Earl squared.

Steph reunites with KG in Minnesota and gives some legit star power addition that KG doesn't have 

They probably still could have done a Kandi for Blunt swap

*

Blount 
KG
Jaric
McCants
Marbury

bench

Griffin
Hassell 
Hudson

*

They would have had to fill out the blanks in MLE and LLE free agency this summer ..but this could have represented the last gambit to give KG a chance to be a winner ( beyond the 1st round ) in Minnesota


----------



## El Chapu

And dont forget we got Sweetney. Everyone talks about the 2 first rounders we acquired (with good reason), but Mike is still young with close to double-double potential. The following will be his first entire offseason as a member of the Chicago Bulls, and knowing his work ethic isnt terrible (in spite of his poor shape) he may be a plus member for us.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3134281#post3134281



T.Shock said:


> Yea IT is definitely a better GM than John Paxson. I swear sometimes you just make reading threads a chore.



"Sometimes?"


----------



## yodurk

TripleDouble said:


> Despite all the love for Davis' intangibles, his plus/minus is pretty horrible this year. He's 3rd worst on the team at -14.7.


My thought on this is that Antonio Davis' backup this year has been Channing Frye. And Frye has been just that good. Too bad for the Knicks, LB doesn't like the rookies.


----------



## GB

10 days in sun-drenched paradise with no internet, cellphones, US television or newspapers: $5000

Returning to find out that Jalen Rose has been traded to the Knicks, and there is a _18_ page thread on it: Priceless


----------



## Da Grinch

SausageKingofChicago said:


> The thing I can't work out ...if they truly believed they needed help at the small forward position and if there was an element of subterfuge going on with IT's troubles ...given that Spree was so loved in New York ( maybe not inside the organisation but by the fanbase at least ) wouldn't it have made far more sense to bring him and
> 
> 1. Get a better player that fits a need - slashing /scorer defender at the 3
> 
> 2. For $20M less ( by the time you take total cost of L Tax penalties and salary )
> 
> 3. Not alienate Trevor Ariza in the process who I think they have put themselves into grave risk of losing
> 
> The Knicks suck and ship AD so Frye and Curry can play more minutes . Fine . So why not just persist with Q and Woods and the 3 , Crawford , Robinson and Marbury at guard and let Ariza develop as the slasher wing defender that they really need ?
> 
> They'll regret losing Ariza
> 
> Sczcerbiak was up for grabs and I would have tried to obtain him and filler like Madsen ( expiring contract ) and the Wolves pick for Marbury
> 
> Would then have tried to deal Richardson and the spurs pick ( late 1st round ) for Andre Miller
> 
> And still signed Spree to the $5M that he is supposed to be asking for
> 
> That would have given the Knicks
> 
> *
> 
> Curry
> Frye
> Sczcerbiak
> Sprewell
> Miller
> 
> bench
> 
> James
> Taylor
> Ariza
> Robinson
> Crawford
> 
> Lee
> Ager ( say with Minnesota's pick at #15 )
> 
> *
> 
> Much better balanced team and a team that could perhaps legitimately compete
> 
> Denver gets an explosive shooting guard they need in Richardson and a point say like Dee Brown with the Knicks pick to platoon the point with Earl squared.
> 
> Steph reunites with KG in Minnesota and gives some legit star power addition that KG doesn't have
> 
> They probably still could have done a Kandi for Blunt swap
> 
> *
> 
> Blount
> KG
> Jaric
> McCants
> Marbury
> 
> bench
> 
> Griffin
> Hassell
> Hudson
> 
> *
> 
> They would have had to fill out the blanks in MLE and LLE free agency this summer ..but this could have represented the last gambit to give KG a chance to be a winner ( beyond the 1st round ) in Minnesota


while i actually like the idea of sprewell on the knicks , they could use him...lets be realistic here .

he cursed out dolan and his family on several occasions during a game , signing him is basically resigning your job, its still dolan's team no matter how much print and fanspeak of thomas' moves, its unrealistic to ever believe dolan would pay the man and of course luxury tax for the pleasure of having sprewell on the roster.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Da Grinch said:


> while i actually like the idea of sprewell on the knicks , they could use him...lets be realistic here .
> 
> he cursed out dolan and his family on several occasions during a game , signing him is basically resigning your job, its still dolan's team no matter how much print and fanspeak of thomas' moves, its unrealistic to ever believe dolan would pay the man and of course luxury tax for the pleasure of having sprewell on the roster.


Maybe so grinch 

But that much money buys you a whole lot of hate


----------



## The ROY

Why EXACTLY is this thread 272 posts deep!?

WHY exactly are u guys so OBSESSIVE over former bulls players?

It's ridiculous now...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

The ROY said:


> Why EXACTLY is this thread 272 posts deep!?
> 
> WHY exactly are u guys so OBSESSIVE over former bulls players?


And why haven't I renamed it The Official Jalen Rose Update Thread?


----------



## ace20004u

I don't understand why people who are "they are no longer Bulls the heck with em" mindset even check this thread or the others. It's like they are sado masochistic or something.


----------



## kukoc4ever

T.Shock said:


> Playoff Appearances
> Genius GM: 1
> Failure GM: 0


Knicks made the playoffs in 2004. So you are wrong on this one.



> Cap Space
> Genius GM: A vast amount
> Failure GM: None until 2009


Pax may be one of the best GMs in the league in building "financial flexibility." YEAH! We're still waiting to see if he's any good at doing something useful with it.



> Yea IT is definitely a better GM than John Paxson.


Not true. Paxson has the “failure” beat by an entire percentage point. One percent away from “failure.”




> I swear sometimes you just make reading threads a chore.


Perhaps, but at least I try and get my facts straight.



I'll take the Knicks young bigs over ours, but that's just me. I think the Knicks have a solid young base on which to build. I'd still rather be cheering Chandler and Curry on to another 47 win season or more than caring about the Knicks young base though. Oh well.


----------



## The ROY

ace20004u said:


> I don't understand why people who are "they are no longer Bulls the heck with em" mindset even check this thread or the others. It's like they are sado masochistic or something.


ya'll LITTERALLY obsess over former bulls players...

it's nutts and it takes away from the forum IMO....


----------



## KnickerBlogger

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



ScottMay said:


> Between friends, work, and rotisserie leagues, I speak pretty regularly with about two dozen Knicks' season-ticket holders. One is virulently anti-Curry, two like him but think he doesn't have much upside, and the rest range between outright loving him and thinking he and Frye are the only worthwhile pieces the Knicks have.
> 
> If you're talking about Crawford, that's another story (most don't like him). But Curry? I'm not seeing much dislike at all.


What's not to like about a center that averages 6.5 boards & 0.9 blocks?

I didn't like Crawford at first, but he's shown improvement in his second year with the Knicks. A lot fewer off-balanced 20 footers with 15 on the shot clock, and he's taking it to the hole a little more. His FTM/FGA has gone from .17 to .32. He's taking 5.4 free throws per 40min as opposed to 3.2. After watching Allan Houston waste his 90% ft% by being alergic to the paint, it's nice to see a SG develop.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



KnickerBlogger said:


> it's nice to see a SG develop.


Yah? Is it as nice as watching Othella's crafty multi-pump-fake-into-the-defender-hoping-his-hands-are-down move or Erik Piaktowski's snappy threads?

huh? HUH?!?!?!?


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

ace20004u said:


> I don't understand why people who are "they are no longer Bulls the heck with em" mindset even check this thread or the others. It's like they are sado masochistic or something.


I don't think many say "to heck with them" so much as they are bemused by the obsession of the board with ex-Bulls and the insistance that if only [insert one good but not great ex-Bull boo of the moment] was still here, everything would be OK and we'd be dominating the NBA. Bad Pax. Bad.

Its like the redhead basket case in Say Anything singing songs and reading poetry about how Joe Lies...

As to the SM element, I see it more as the passing a car crash kind of thing.


----------



## MikeDC

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> I don't think many say "to heck with them" so much as they are bemused by the obsession of the board with ex-Bulls and the insistance that if only [insert one good but not great ex-Bull boo of the moment] was still here, everything would be OK and we'd be dominating the NBA. Bad Pax. Bad.


I also think there's also some folks that are bemused by the obsession of the board with ex-Bulls and the insistance that they unequivocally sucked, were horrible, bad players and bad people, and the only reason we ever win a game is because they're gone. Unless, of course, we'd actually resigned them, then it was a great move by Pax! 

But it's all good... different opinions are what makes things fun.


----------



## ScottMay

*Re: Jalen Rose traded to Knicks for Davis?*



KnickerBlogger said:


> What's not to like about a center that averages 6.5 boards & 0.9 blocks?
> 
> I didn't like Crawford at first, but he's shown improvement in his second year with the Knicks. A lot fewer off-balanced 20 footers with 15 on the shot clock, and he's taking it to the hole a little more. His FTM/FGA has gone from .17 to .32. He's taking 5.4 free throws per 40min as opposed to 3.2. After watching Allan Houston waste his 90% ft% by being alergic to the paint, it's nice to see a SG develop.


Yeah, I've wasted a lot of breath telling many of these season-ticket holders that Crawford, while perhaps not completely turning over a new leaf, has made some significant strides in improving on his problem areas this year. 

As for Curry, trust me, we've all had that complaint over the years. However, even accounting for his turnovers, the guy does one very important thing as well as anyone in the league. He may not be good enough to lead a team like the Knicks out of their funk, but as soon as they shore up their perimeter defense, he'll be a very valuable guy to have around.

We sure miss him, at any rate.


----------



## El Chapu

Some things never change...


----------



## GB

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> And why haven't I renamed it The Official Jalen Rose Update Thread?


Beats me.

But everyone interested, so here we go.



> Jalen Rose said he has had issues with just two people since he entered the NBA in 1994


Hmmm. Who could that be? A certain Chicago coach and his boss?

Nope.



> New York coach Larry Brown and Knicks president Isiah Thomas.
> That's why the Knicks' decision to trade for Rose before the Feb. 23 deadline was a head-scratcher for many people.


http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060308/SPORTS04/603080466


----------



## kukoc4ever

The interesting thing about Rose's return to Indy was the "warm reception" he received.

So, the Indiana fans like him. The Toronto fans on this message board didn't seem to have big issues with him…. Generally warm wished to him on this way out.

But in Chicago, he gets booed every time he touches the ball. Strange.


----------



## jbulls

kukoc4ever said:


> The interesting thing about Rose's return to Indy was the "warm reception" he received.
> 
> So, the Indiana fans like him. The Toronto fans on this message board didn't seem to have big issues with him…. Generally warm wished to him on this way out.
> 
> But in Chicago, he gets booed every time he touches the ball. Strange.


I don't understand why we should care what the reactions of various fan bases to Jalen Rose are. In Indiana he was part of a team that made the finals, of course they like him. Toronto's fanbase used up all its vitriol on Vince Carter and Antonio Davis. What's the point here? Bulls fans stink? I bet Artest gets his share of boo's when he goes back to Indiana, but he doesn't get any here. Different guys come to and leave teams under different sets of circumstances, leading to different reactions from fans. It doesn't seem that strange to me.


----------

