# Who would you take over Walker?



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Clearly in here I am in the minority in hoping Walker is not back in Celtic *GREEN* next season. His game and how he effects the Celtics have been debated in here a lot recently.

So since there seem to be many many Walker fans in here this is my question. Let's assume he is gone. So - either in a sign and trade - or from FA's - who would you be happy to take over Walker in that PF spot and why would you rather have that player than Walker.

I mostly am wanting to hear from the Walker fans and lovers. Who would make you get ovet the "loss" over Walker? And let's be realistic. Yes KG etc. would be nice. But who _that we could_ get would you be happier with than Walker?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

http://probasketball.about.com/od/newsrumorsopinion/a/nbafreeagents05_4.htm


there are the top 40 free agents for the PF position...i may be a lil biased but theres not one guy on that list that id rather have over walker...IF HE HAD TO GO id like tyson chandler...but we arent getting him...so imo id resign the #2 pf on that list of 40 (and he could reallistically be #1 over sar)


my vote would be tyson chandler and noone else....but i would only do it if i had to


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

It might very well be be a sign-and-trade as well - so that's fair game for this.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

There aren't many possible solutions, but whom I would have liked last year was Ricky Davis for Al Harrington. I think he would have done well here. We needed a PF last year, the Pacers needed a SG...well they got theirs very early. But that isn't a Walker for Harrington deal...

I don't know if there really is a point in trading a player to play the same position of which you are trading though.

Obviously we can't get Duncan, Garnett, or Amare. Bosh would be nice to have, but I don't see why Toronto would do that, that's their franchise and is only what? 23? Z-Bone plays no defense whatsoever, and I don't think he'd be a good fit here. 

Kenyon Martin wouldn't be bad I guess...or Jamison, SAR wouldn't be a bad replacement if we had the money to sign him...instead of the sign and trade. Brand isn't bad either to go along Pierce. Dirk is untouchable, and we don't have anything to offer for someone like Marion.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Anyone that shoots over 41%


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

There isn't a player we could get that I'd prefer to have over Walker. Unless we dealt Pierce to get that guy.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Kenyon Martin wouldn't be bad I guess...or Jamison


You said previously you didn't want a guy because he didn't play any D, but you wouldn't mind Jamison? Confused...



> Brand isn't bad either to go along Pierce.


Isn't that bad?? Brand is a HUGE upgrade on Walker.



> Dirk is untouchable, and we don't have anything to offer for someone like Marion.


That's fine, because I am definitely NOT INTERESTED in Shawn Marion. At all. Most overrated player in the NBA.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

agoo101284 said:


> There isn't a player *we could get * that I'd prefer to have over Walker. Unless we dealt Pierce to get that guy.



i couldnt have put it better myself agoo...theres noone we could get thats an upgrade on walker...period


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## FatMike58 (May 11, 2005)

wow get over it...antoine sucks


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

..


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

How about a package for KG?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

KJay said:


> How about a package for KG?




wed have to package walker pierce davis and probably some picks for kg...minn probably wouldnt do it...and neither would the celts i would hope


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

being realistic I would say you could probably work a sign & trade for Shareef or Stromile, I seriously doubt that the Bulls would work a sign & trade for Tyson because of the questions about Curry's health and IMO Tyson is better than Walker, Donyell might be an option I don't think he is better than Antoine but if you are looking to get Big Al more minutes this year, I am pretty sure Donyell would come here and be happy with 25 minutes a game. The trade I would really love to see is for us to sign and trade Walker for Kurt Thomas, Isiah has always claimed to love Antoine's game and I think Kurt would be a much better mentor for Perk and Al than Antoine is.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

vandyke said:


> I think Kurt would be a much better mentor for Perk and Al than Antoine is.



because kurt has accomplished what in his career??...not to sound like a jerk but id like to know why u think this is


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

KT is the only Knick worth the time it takes to type this. Only guy on the Knicks who actually tries on D and rebounds...I'd love to have him. What's his salary situation like? I assume he's ridicoulsly overpaid...I mean, he is a Knick.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

I would like the C's to look at Brown and maybe sign him with the MLE or do a sign and trade.


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> because kurt has accomplished what in his career??...not to sound like a jerk but id like to know why u think this is


Don't get me wrong I like Antoine he is one of my favorite players, but I think and tell me if you disagree, that the perceived problem with this team is that they would like to change this culture of arguing with the refs after every call, bumping into refs, trash talking those kinds of things, and as far as Antoine's game I think everyone would agree we would rather have the type of PF who is a tough inside player and rebounder that isn't hanging out by the three point line jacking up threes, it is not about what Kurt has accomplished he is not a superstar player he is a complimentary player and I think that is what the Celtics need most right now, just a player that will come to play every night, do his job and keep his mouth shut.
P-Dub, I think that KT signed a contract at the beginning of the year that was something like 4yrs-28mil which is in line with what Antoine will get.
Yes I did forget Kwame he is another player that you could probably work a sign and trade for either Antoine or Blount and the kid obviously has some talent or he would not have been a number #1 pick, could you imagine a future rotation of Al, Kwame, and Perk.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> i couldnt have put it better myself agoo...theres noone we could get thats an upgrade on walker...period


So you are saying pretty much no one on the free agent list.

You are saying Brand is out of Walker's league.

So let's change the question so I can understand your perspective on Walker. Who _IS_ in AW's league? For example I'd put Kobe and TMAC and Allen on the same plane as Pierce. Who do you put with Walker?


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I'd prefer Walker, but Kurt Thomas is an interesting player to me. He is a tough, no nonsense rebounder who can play at PF and C. I think he'd be a great pickup, if Walker isn't coming back.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> So you are saying pretty much no one on the free agent list.


yes



Causeway said:


> You are saying Brand is out of Walker's league.
> 
> So let's change the question so I can understand your perspective on Walker. Who _IS_ in AW's league? For example I'd put Kobe and TMAC and Allen on the same plane as Pierce. Who do you put with Walker?



now lets stop putting words in my mouth here...i would love to have brand on the celts...he is much better than antoine at this point...but theres no way we r getting him from the clips...if we couldnt get him 2 yrs ago with antoine and a first rounder we r not gonna get him this year for anything


and also kobe and tmac are much better players than pierce...ray allen and pierce r in the 2nd tier right under them


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## celtsb34 (Apr 22, 2005)

I like Donyell Marshall I saw him in that game with 12 three pointers. And Antoine is the most overated player in the NBA, Donyell is pretty much underated. Donyell is taller (I think). Antoine is paid the most on the celtics and Donyell is paid a little to much but less than Walker.

1. We should trade Pierce, Blount, and Marcus Banks for Allen Iverson, Andre Iguodala, and Kevin Ollie

2. Sign Payton

3. Sign Donyell Marshall (instead of Walker)

4. Draft Joey Graham

5. Trade #50 and #53 for #41

6. Daniel Ewing with #41

PG Payton/Ewing/Ollie
SG Iverson/Davis/West
SF Iguodala/Graham/Allen
PF Marshall/*Lafrentz*
C Jefferson/*Lafrentz*


*Lafrentz* PF/C


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

You want to trade for Iggy and then draft Graham? That's fairly ridiculous, and your point guard rotation looks awful. And if people complain about Walker shooting too many threes, wait until Marshall came in. All the guy can do is shoot the three. Awful plan.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Awful plan.


Somebody had to say it.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

celtsb34 said:


> I like Donyell Marshall I saw him in that game with 12 three pointers. And Antoine is the most overated player in the NBA, Donyell is pretty much underated. Donyell is taller (I think). Antoine is paid the most on the celtics and Donyell is paid a little to much but less than Walker.
> 
> 1. We should trade Pierce, Blount, and Marcus Banks for Allen Iverson, Andre Iguodala, and Kevin Ollie
> 
> ...



did u think about this before u wrote it??


3 total player to play pf/center...yea...that would work


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

People whine about PP not fitting into Doc's system, I'd LOVE to see AI try.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> now lets stop putting words in my mouth here...


what words did I put in your mouth? and you are avoiding the question - who _IS_ on par with Walker?



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> and also kobe and tmac are much better players than pierce...ray allen and pierce r in the 2nd tier right under them


how are Kobe and TMAC much better? The nubers don't say so. You could argue that Kobe has the rings. But Shaq and others had a say in that. What has TMAC won? I put Pierce right up there with ANY 2 in the game.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> You are saying Brand is out of Walker's league.




is there any more of a clearer example of someone putting words in someone elses mouth other than starting a sentance with "you are saying" when i never said anything of the sort...

and the players i would put in the tier with walker would be people like lamar odom...antawn jamison and shareef abdur rahim...odom and jamison may be more of sfs but they r versitile...but yea those r the players i would talk about when talkin bout walker...hope i cleared everything up


and one more thing please post in the nba general forum how you would take pierce over kobe or tmac...i would like to see the reaction u get there...thank u


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> iand the players i would put in the tier with walker would be people like lamar odom...


Ehhh...I'd take Odom over Walker.



> antawn jamison and shareef abdur rahim...odom and jamison may be more of sfs but they r versitile...but yea those r the players i would talk about when talkin bout walker...hope i cleared everything up


Jamison doesn't play D and SAR isn't a real great defender either so I don't really want them.




> and one more thing please post in the nba general forum how you would take pierce over kobe or tmac...i would like to see the reaction u get there...thank u


Dude, it's just his opinion. No need to be so condescending.

Oh, BTW...Walker can't see Elton Brand.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Players who _I_ think are near Walkers' level/tier *right now*:

Brad Miller, Jamaal Magloire, Dwight Howard, Kurt Thomas, and possibly Marcus Camby.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> Oh, BTW...Walker can't see Elton Brand.



i never said i disagreed with that...




P-Dub34 said:


> Dude, it's just his opinion. No need to be so condescending.


im not tryin to be an *** it was just a request to see what other ppl thought of that opinion thats all


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Brad Miller, Jamaal Magloire, Dwight Howard, Kurt Thomas, and possibly Marcus Camby.


I'd take all of those guys over Walker. They hit the boards hard, know their role, and play D.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> is there any more of a clearer example of someone putting words in someone elses mouth other than starting a sentance with "you are saying" *when i never said anything of the sort*...
> 
> and the players i would put in the tier with walker would be people like lamar odom...antawn jamison and shareef abdur rahim...odom and jamison may be more of sfs but they r versitile...but yea those r the players i would talk about when talkin bout walker...hope i cleared everything up


You never said ANYTHING of the sort? In response to someone saying:



> If I could replace him with Elton Brand I'd do it in a heartbeat.


You said:



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> *of course anyone would agree with that...2 yrs ago danny offered the clippers antoine and our #1 pick...which turned out to be Al...for elton brand...did they do it??...NO theyd never do that cuz brand is a monster...we have nothing to give the clips for brand...*thats almost like saying...if i could replace him with tim duncan id do it in a heartbeat


So yes - that to me says you are saying Brand is better than Walker. I did not make that up. It's in this thread.



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> and one more thing please post in the nba general forum how you would take pierce over kobe or tmac...i would like to see the reaction u get there...thank u


I'd be happy to if you'd do a couple things. One - in here explain how Kobe and TMAC are above Pierce (Kobes 3 rings aside - can't fault Pierce for the talent he's played with). And second - in the general nba forum post how great you think Walker is and see the reaction you get...thank u.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Here you go #1AntoineWalkerFan.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Causeway, #1AWF is stating that we wouldn't be able to get Elton Brand for Antoine Walker meaning that he believes Brand is better than Walker, which, in my opinion, he is.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> Causeway, #1AWF is stating that we wouldn't be able to get Elton Brand for Antoine Walker meaning that he believes Brand is better than Walker, which, in my opinion, he is.


I understand that. And agree. In fact there should be no debate that Brand is better than Walker.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Causeway said:


> I understand that. And agree. In fact there should be no debate that Brand is better than Walker.


Am I the only one who doesn't see where anyone made the argument that Brand is better than Walker?

And just out of curiosity, if we don't bring Walker back, who's the second option? Ricky? Raef? Al?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Ricky Davis would be the second option because we wouldn't have cap room to sign a quality second option other than Walker. In my opinion, Walker is a much better option than Davis, who is _very_ streaky. Also, our frontcourt would be terrible without Walker. Jefferson is not ready to start. Blount is a statue and LaFrentz is "soft". We wouldn't be able to get a starting power forward/center with the MLE.


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## Dirty Dirk41 (Nov 5, 2003)

Stromile Swift..We should get him...Maybe shp out blount..Hed be nice..Strong on the inside...I always like Kwame or Kurt Thomas....Bang the boards somethin toine shys away from


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> And second - in the general nba forum post how great you think Walker is and see the reaction you get...thank u.


Touche.


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## celtsb34 (Apr 22, 2005)

agoo101284 said:


> You want to trade for Iggy and then draft Graham? That's fairly ridiculous, and your point guard rotation looks awful. And if people complain about Walker shooting too many threes, wait until Marshall came in. All the guy can do is shoot the three. Awful plan.


I was thinking of it when i wrote it.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> Causeway, #1AWF is stating that we wouldn't be able to get Elton Brand for Antoine Walker meaning that he believes Brand is better than Walker, which, in my opinion, he is.



THANK U GOD SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY READS THE POSTS


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

causeway...you told me that i was saying that brand was out of walkers league...this means that you think that i believe that walker is better than brand...at least thats what it sounds like...so please clarify where i said that walker is better than brand and ill clear up anything that is unclear because i have said multiple times that i believe brand is much better at this point in their carrers than walker is...


o btw...how is that post in the nba general forum going...do u have even one person that agrees with u??...and also i never said that walker was so great....you saying that ud take pierce over tmac and kobe is like me saying that id take walker over brand duncan and amare...i would never say anything as ridiculous as that


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> you saying that ud take pierce over tmac and kobe is like me saying that id take walker over brand duncan and amare...i would never say anything as ridiculous as that


Actually no it's not as ridiculous. Pierce actually has been on the level of Kobe and T-Mac at a point in his career. Maybe not this year, but in years past. Walker has never been on the level of Brand, Duncan, Garnett, Stoudemire etc.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Lanteri said:


> Walker has never been on the level of Brand, Duncan, Garnett, Stoudemire etc.



o really???...how about his 2nd yr in the league when he averaged over 22 pts and 10 rebs a game...and made the all star team...or the 4 yrs after that when he averaged 21-9...maybe not quite duncan...but definetlely brand-level if not better...and at or above amares first 2 yrs in the league...remember hes only has one superstar season


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> o really???...how about his 2nd yr in the league when he averaged over 22 pts and 10 rebs a game...and made the all star team...or the 4 yrs after that when he averaged 21-9...maybe not quite duncan...but definetlely brand-level if not better...and at or above amares first 2 yrs in the league...remember hes only has one superstar season


Sure he averaged 22 and 10. But he also shot 42%. Which means he put up a buttload of shots to get it. I'm not impressed with a 22 and 10 guy that shoots only 42%. While Elton Brand in his rookie year, put up 20 and 10 on 48% shooting. Much more impressive than Walker.

Duncan's Career- 22.5 ppg, 12.2 rpg, .507 career shooter
Brand's Career- 19.5 ppg, 10.4 rpg, .496 career shooter
Walker's Career- 19.8 ppg, 8.7 rpg, .415 career shooter

Brand also has a career average of 2 blocks per game, while Walker averages barely over a half. Brand is clearly more efficient than Walker, and I guarantee there isn't a GM in the league that would take Walker over Brand.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Lanteri said:


> I guarantee there isn't a GM in the league that would take Walker over Brand.



wowwwwwwwww how many times do i have to say that i would never take walker over brand right now...im saying that you cant say that walker has NEVER been at his level...because he has...i dont like using this as an example but its the only thign i can think of right now...how many times has walker been an all star??...how about brand???...im NOT saying walker is better than brand...but you cant forget how good he used to be and the players and coaches showed him the respect of selecting him to 3 all star games...and you cant use the walker was on a good team and brand a bad team cuz walker made it on the pathetic 97-98 celtics...ur using fg% as ur only stat that makes brand better...well in that case walker avgs 4+ asst per game and bran only avgs 2+...its only one stat but it doesnt mean walker is better than brand...


all im trying to say is walker HAS been on the level of a elton brand...imo theres no denying that


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## Dirty Dirk41 (Nov 5, 2003)

true true...there is no reason why anyone should be taking toines side...not really a huge fan but lets be real..if he had brand we'd be much better an not killed on the glass so much


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Dirty Dirk41 said:


> true true...there is no reason why anyone should be taking toines side...not really a huge fan but lets be real..if he had brand we'd be much better an not killed on the glass so much


We would, we definitely would.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> all im trying to say is walker HAS been on the level of a elton brand...imo theres no denying that


I can and will deny it. Has Antoine Walker ever averaged 2 blocks a game? No. Walker's highest FG% in a season was 43%. Brand is twice the defender Walker ever was, or will be. The only thing Walker has on Brand, is range, which is not something you need from someone that you want to be your post presence and a strong inside defender, neither of which Antoine is. 

In other words. Walker hasn't/isn't/and never will be on Brand's level.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Is it really _that_ hard to interpret what #1AWF is saying in his posts? 

"all im trying to say is walker _*HAS *_been on the level of a elton brand...imo theres no denying that"

 I don't see how this is any different from Lanteri saying that Pierce *HAS* been on Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady's level at some concurrent point in their respective careers.

By trying to refute what #1AWF has posted, using career averages, in an argument that is focusing on one like point in the careers of each player, you aren't arguing effectively and it's hard to take one serious when one cannot focus on the present argument. If you want to agrue that in a seperate thread, go for it, by all means. 

Yes, I do believe that comparing Pierce to Kobe or McGrady and saying that he, at some point at his career, was at the same level as Bryant or McGrady is *like* comparing Walker to Brand at some points of the career.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

It's like a click in here and if you question the Walker fans even the mods try and come to their rescue.

#1Walkerfan...I got that you think Brand is better than Walker. What YOU did not get was that when I said that YOU said Brand was out of Walkers league - I meant that you think Brand is better than Walker.

I am sorry for ANY confusion or saddness this may have caused you. It's setteled. We all feel that Brand is better than Walker.

As far as Walker EVER being on the level of Brand - I am with Lanteri. He never has been. While at the sane time Pierce has and IS at the level of a Kobe or a TMAC. Add the fact that I believe Kobe is a cancer and TMAC is lacking the heart to win even ONE playoff series and I'll take Pierce any day.

#1Walker fan - when you man up and post your Walker love in the NBA General forum I'll answer your question as to how my Pierce thread is working ou in the general forum. But since you asked here are a couple posts from that thread:



> I personally think Pierce would be the easy choice, but on bbb.net, I bet Pierce would lose in a poll to someone like Ginobili.


and:



> pierce actually had an impressive season, imo. his scoring was down, but he had the most efficient scoring year of his career, and was more efficient scoring than any of his peers (1.17 ppfga - same as shaq).


how efficient is your guy Walker?

although in fairness the say poster goes on to say



> i'd still easily rather have kobe or tmac, who are just better at more things, imo.


Bottome line is you asked and I posted. I am not surprised more people would take TMAC and Kobe over Pierce. Among other things they are bigger "stars" and some people like that. My opinion is I want Pierce over those guys. Even though I don't have people like you coming to my defense all the time I am entitled to that opinion. Kobe is a cancer and a volume shooter. TMAC is lacking heart compared to Pierce. And the numbers are about equal.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> Is it really _that_ hard to interpret what #1AWF is saying in his posts?
> 
> "all im trying to say is walker _*HAS *_been on the level of a elton brand...imo theres no denying that"
> 
> ...



yet again thank u god for someone who actually reads the posts and doesnt use insignivicant numbers when the question has nothing to do with them...has walker ever avgd 2 blocks a game...no...that means hes never been on brand-type level...thank you for your insight lanteri and by all means

#1AWF, do not tell other posters, especially mods, to stop posting.

- Premier


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Causeway, as a moderator of this forum, does that mean I cannot express my own opinion?

Let's agree to disagree.

I think Walker is a good player. You do not. Let's leave it at that.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> Causeway, as a moderator of this forum, does that mean I cannot express my own opinion?
> 
> Let's agree to disagree.
> 
> I think Walker is a good player. You do not. Let's leave it at that.


My issue is not that you are a fan of Walker. That is your right. My issue is that whenever a #1WalkerFan gets backed into a corner you jump to his defense. It seems you do that because you also are a big Walker fan. When I wrote to WalkerFan "you are saying Brand is out of Walkers league" I meant that he was saying Brand is better. Where I am from that's what it means. Like "she's out of your league". She's too good for you.

But did you ask me if that's what I meant? No. You immediately assumed #1Walkerfan was right in thinking I thought he was saying Brand was not as good as Walker. Again...that is NOT what I thought he ws saying. Go back and read what I said.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Ahh...I see.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and I hope that you do not take it personally.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> #1Walker fan - when you man up and post your Walker love in the NBA General forum I'll answer your question as to how my Pierce thread is working ou in the general forum.



here son i "manned up"... 

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=175533


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> here son i "manned up"...
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=175533


You are too much man.

First you whine that people are not reading your posts clearly and not getting what you are saying - when in fact you did were the one not reading and missing the point. I never said you thought Walker was better than Brand. 

Then you tell me first to go post my opinion on Pierce in the General NBA thread which I do. When I ask you to do the same on Walker you stall - and then when you finally do you get snippy about it and call me "son". 

Whatever.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

*Cue Biggie*

_What's beef?
Beef is when you need two gats to go to sleep
Beef is when your mom's ain't safe up in the streets
Beef is when I see you
Guaranteed to be in I.C.U._


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> *Cue Biggie*
> 
> _What's beef?
> Beef is when you need two gats to go to sleep
> ...


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

the "son" comment wasnt meant to offend you i call everyone son its just my word sorry


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

No problem.

And more importantly - Go Celtics.


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

Final word on Brand vs. Toine, not everything can be measured in ppg and rpg. You have to look at the intangibles such as leadership, when Brand carries his team to a conference final let alone just one damn playoff game then come back to me and say Brand is better, until then no way is Brand better then Toine, he may have better stats, but he is not a better all around player then Toine now or ever. For example there are thousands of players that have better stats than Robert Horry but is there any other player in the world you would want on the floor in a big game. So there are people out there that are saying in a big game you would rather have Brand on the floor than Toine, well you just don't know basketball. You don't have to look no further than Toine's performance in game 6 of the playoffs in overtime against Indiana after PP got tossed, to see what I am talking about.
Give me a break will you!


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> And more importantly - Go Celtics.




ditto son :biggrin:


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

vandyke said:


> Final word on Brand vs. Toine, not everything can be measured in ppg and rpg.


Agreed, but they cannot simply be disregarded, either.



> You have to look at the intangibles such as leadership, when Brand carries his team to a conference final


Walker carried us to the conference final? You make it sound like PP had nothing to do with that.



> let alone just one damn playoff game then come back to me and say Brand is better, until then no way is Brand better then Toine


OK, so by your criteria, Walker > Brand because he's been in the playoffs? Steve Kerr > Karl Malone? Robert Horry > Charles Barkley, too?



> he may have better stats, but he is not a better all around player then Toine now or ever.


He has those better stats for a reason. Although stats can sometimes be misleading.



> For example there are thousands of players that have better stats than Robert Horry but is there any other player in the world you would want on the floor in a big game.


No, but that's not exactly a fair comparision. Robert Horry is not a better player than a lot of guys, but he's more clutch and better in big games. That doesn't make you a better player. Horry > Barkley again? Your logic is kind of ehhhhh.... right now.



> So there are people out there that are saying in a big game you would rather have Brand on the floor than Toine


Who said that? And who's to say Brand wouldn't be a stud in a big game? 



> well you just don't know basketball.


Just because somebody's opinion differs from yours, they "don't know basketball"? Get outta here.



> You don't have to look no further than Toine's performance in game 6 of the playoffs in overtime against Indiana after PP got tossed, to see what I am talking about.


Oh, you mean taking 26 shots to amass 24 points? Not getting to the stripe once in 26 freaking FGAT's? I didn't even know that was possible! Then the guy dumps a trey in overtime and it's all good? Maybe the game wouldn't have been a tie if he wouldn't have been jacking up so many shots! Ever think of that? 



> Give me a break will you!


No, please, you give me a break, and come back with something better than "If you don't agree with me, you don't know basketball". Who do you think you are?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> OK, so by your criteria, Walker > Brand because he's been in the playoffs? Steve Kerr > Karl Malone? Robert Horry > Charles Barkley, too?



people do this all the time when you bring up how much players have won in their career...kerr and horry never led their teams to anything...they were key role players on great teams...walker "leads" his team...brand "leads" his team...there is no comparison of a star who hasnt won a ring to a role player that has...they are both "star" players


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

They're both team leaders, I agree, and I went overboard to make a point. But there are more variables involved with winning than vandyke lets on. If you sub in Antoine Walker for Brand on the Clipps, do they make the playoffs? I don't think so, but that's just me.

Basically, my post isn't really about disagreeing with the guy, it's about how much it irks me when somebody says your opinion is wrong because I don't agree with it. Know what I mean?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> Basically, my post isn't really about disagreeing with the guy, it's about how much it irks me when somebody says your opinion is wrong because I don't agree with it. Know what I mean?



yea i hear ya...im sure he didnt mean it in a bad way tho but i cant speak for him


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> Agreed, but they cannot simply be disregarded, either.
> 
> 
> Walker carried us to the conference final? You make it sound like PP had nothing to do with that.
> ...


You know what P-Dub you are right, I stand corrected it is just a person's opinion so I take that back you are 100% right, I still stand by what I said but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, surely doesn't mean that a person doesn't know basketball.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

By the way - for what it's worth - the Pierce thread in the General NBA area has turned into a very interesting thread with so far 6 pages of posts. And there's some nice support for Pierce from non-Celtic fans.


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