# How good is JR Smith?



## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

I have to admit, I know very little about him. I know he is athletic and was considered as having potential but that's it. Can he shoot? Does he defend? I think he could make this trade a good one.


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## draft tyrus (Jun 29, 2006)

yes and no, respectively.

if anyone can whip him into shape it's Skiles. Or else he'll use him as a piece for someone else.


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## ChiTownFan (Jul 16, 2002)

He's a scorer, first and foremost. Had a huge McDonald's all-star game, draining threes from well beyond the NBA stripe, and throwing down ridiculous dunks. Career high is 33 pts in the NBA, but he shoots a lot. And apparently is a head case. But I think it's a fore gone conclusion that this trade is gonna happen. By the time I wake up tomorrow (could be well after noon), I think Chandler will be a Hornet, and I won't care.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

JR Smith is a JR Ride reincarnated.

Loads of athletic ability and potential and little brains.

A quote that turns me off players like him.

"Id rather have one highlight reel dunk in a game to be shown on espn then 30 points, id try those 30 points for a highlight reel dunk anyday"


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Good scorer out of this world athletesim he is atomatic from 3, but he has a bad attitude, if he doesn't get what he wants he would rather go else where. He doesn't ever pass the ball, he has absolutely no basketball Iq, he cares about his stats only. It's stats first, and winning last. 

Byron scott bench ths guy for not producing , I think he had a total of 7 points in 3 games playing like 35-40 minutes and I think there was a incident where he didn't want to go to practice which led to Bryon bencing him. Then instead of taking it like a man he cried like a little girl, saying he wants to get traded, picking arguments with Byron on the newspaper. No offense you guys but I stay far away from this guy ( or should I say little kid) because he'll most likely be out of the league after his rookie contract.

BTW, he doesn't play a lick of defense, when he's defending a guy he think " If I let this guy score than we can get the ball back so I can score".


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

kulaz3000 said:


> JR Smith is a JR Ride reincarnated.
> 
> Loads of athletic ability and potential and little brains.
> 
> ...


Well, although I agree he doesn't sound like much of a person, at least he might be able to provide some much needed excitement if he is a highlight reel dunker, and can turn that into some production.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

kulaz3000 said:


> JR Smith is a JR Ride reincarnated.
> 
> Loads of athletic ability and potential and little brains.
> 
> ...


Definitely sounds like a Paxson-Skiles kinda guy...*NOT!*

Prime candidate for the ERob-Tim Thomas treatment.


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## Ventura (Aug 9, 2005)

the jib is weak in this one...








a headband, tattoos... a flashy dunker. i dont like him.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

He has the talent to be a superstar, but I doubt he ever comes close to reaching it.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

I cannot stand him, or anyone who says he has "all the talent in the world".

No, he doesn't have all the talent in the world.

He's an inconsistent shooter, who can be really good at it, or really bad. Regardless of which it is, he's shooting everything.

He can finish around the rim, but is a terrible ballhandler, and cannot get to the rim.

He's a great athlete, but doesn't use it.

He cannot create for himself, create for others, rebound, pass, play defense, get his defensive rotations correct, or stay in front of his man. He will not hustle, notably asked once if practice was mandatory, and generally kicks up a stink if hes not allowed to shoto where and when he wants.


He can run, jump and dunk. *That is not "talent".*. All of those _are_ talents, but with JR, that's pretty much the limit of it. They are his ONLY talents. And it's not enough.

Skiles will hate his guts, he will be nailed to the bench, and be gone within weeks.


Think Eddie Robinson with slightly more range and less paisely.


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

Ventura said:


> the jib is weak in this one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can one learn Jib? Or do you have to be born with it?


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## Ventura (Aug 9, 2005)

laso said:


> Can one learn Jib? Or do you have to be born with it?


i dont know for sure but if it is possible to "learn" it pax&skiles are going to be the teachers.


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## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

But there would be stranger things that have happened then JR Smith becoming a superstar with the talent that he's got, correct?


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Well yeah, if Basden did it maybe.


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## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

LOL.

My point is, I think this team could use a wildcard like JR Smith. I mean, the talent and tools are all there. It's all a growth process and mental maturity that is lacking, which a good coaching staff could assist in.


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## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

TheLegend said:


> LOL.
> 
> My point is, I think this team could use a wildcard like JR Smith. I mean, the talent and tools are all there. It's all a growth process and mental maturity that is lacking, which a good coaching staff could assist in.


he is like Pargo but just 100 times more talented.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Good scorer out of this world athletesim he is atomatic from 3, but he has a bad attitude, if he doesn't get what he wants he would rather go else where. He doesn't ever pass the ball, he has absolutely no basketball Iq, he cares about his stats only. It's stats first, and winning last.
> 
> Byron scott bench ths guy for not producing , I think he had a total of 7 points in 3 games playing like 35-40 minutes and I think there was a incident where he didn't want to go to practice which led to Bryon bencing him. Then instead of taking it like a man he cried like a little girl, saying he wants to get traded, picking arguments with Byron on the newspaper. No offense you guys but I stay far away from this guy ( or should I say little kid) because he'll most likely be out of the league after his rookie contract.
> 
> BTW, he doesn't play a lick of defense, when he's defending a guy he think " If I let this guy score than we can get the ball back so I can score".



Sounds like the perfect match for Skies....

But seriously though, if he is our Pargo fine. But now that we have 5 guards, is Du the odd man out?


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

> I mean, the talent and tools are all there.


No, they aren't.

Apart from being athletic, and shooting very inconsistently, what's he talented at?


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

UMfan83 said:


> Sounds like the perfect match for Skies....
> 
> But seriously though, if he is our Pargo fine. But now that we have 5 guards, is Du the odd man out?


I don't even think a though guy like Scott skiles, would help this bum. He is as stubborn as you get.


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## mw2889 (Dec 15, 2005)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CumeGVCEftE&search=JR smith

He's got game, I fell in love after I went to a game against the hornets a couple months ago. I always projected him to be a great scorer one day because 10 ppg out of high school is very rare. He reminds me so much of Ricky Davis.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

Sham, don't you think He's physically servicable? My impresion was, even with all the dings on his handles and shooting, all he needed to do was get in the gym and work like (insert your favorite hard worker) Cory Maggette esque. I think it was the McDonalds game I saw. He was really looking like a shooter in that game. His form was OK looking. Very inconsistent if not often with it these days

Tall order, I know he's got the warts, but so young to say he's got permanent defects that can't be minimized. From what I have seen, He has the talent to overcome a lot of this stuff. JUst no focus. His problem are the distractions of fame and fortune at a young age unfortunately. Another casualty of the flawed policy of taking HSers in the draft. If he only was forced to go to college he had a chance.

I wouldn't like to risk anything on him. He's probably trade bait. But, if the Bulls are willing to keep him around the team, maybe they think he's not all that bad. Surrounded by fierce glaring teamates, maybe he's just a bridge to Tgetting Thabo up to speed. I wouldn't be surprised if he contributes. He's likely earmarked for the deep bench as far as expectations go, but i bet the Bullies want to roll the dice since they are deperate for a temporary big guard. They expressed a desire to find a bigger guard to hold the spot warm for Sefalosha. I bet they have a little bit of hope for the kid.

Anyways, should be funny to see if its a battle between Thabo and JR for Piatkowskis minutes :biggrin:


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Sham said:


> No, they aren't.
> 
> Apart from being athletic, and shooting very inconsistently, what's he talented at?


 Preach on. 

Whats the point in having three point range if your form sucks and you can't rely on your shot in pressure moments? J.R. Smith has talent like Cory Benjamin had talent. He doesn't have good fundamentals. He doesn't have a broader understanding of the game? And, he hasn't really improved during his time in the league.

There is a talent in being congnizant of your weaknesses and working on them. See Lebron and his jumpshot. If we get Smith, I'm all but betting he gets released or re-shipped during at the soonest possible moment.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> Preach on.
> 
> Whats the point in having three point range if your form sucks and you can't rely on your shot in pressure moments? J.R. Smith has talent like Cory Benjamin had talent. He doesn't have good fundamentals. He doesn't have a broader understanding of the game? And, he hasn't really improved during his time in the league.
> 
> There is a talent in being congnizant of your weaknesses and working on them. See Lebron and his jumpshot. If we get Smith, I'm all but betting he gets released or re-shipped during at the soonest possible moment.


I'm not a Smith fan, but his jumper is worlds better than Benjamin's was. Just saying. I still don't want to see him in a Bulls uniform.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

jbulls said:


> I'm not a Smith fan, but his jumper is worlds better than Benjamin's was. Just saying. I still don't want to see him in a Bulls uniform.


Probably more accurate, worse form though. Best case scenario, Smith becomes a Stephen Jackson type where you find yourself screaming "no!" at the television set everytime he shoots -- even when it ends up going in.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

He got a wake up call, did he he take the call?

In the harsh environment of a Bulls practice, full of menacing characters all business demanding his attention to detail, you never know if something dawns on him. 

The Bulls are desperate, unlikely to find a lot of better alternatives for the caretaker role and I am hopeful for him, just like a was for Eddy and Jamal


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

TheLegend said:


> LOL.
> 
> My point is, I think this team could use a wildcard like JR Smith.


Me too.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

such sweet thunder said:


> Probably more accurate, worse form though. Best case scenario, Smith becomes a Stephen Jackson type where you find yourself screaming "no!" at the television set everytime he shoots -- even when it ends up going in.


probably. But Jax belongs in the league. He's not a team killer. I know thats not saying much.

Pretty good example. He was thought of as a malingerer too. Kind of actually proved himself. It happens


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

GB said:


> Me too.


me too too

start up the sig club somebody, I'm in


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

I wouldn't mind the Bulls getting him. He's go a ton of athleticism and has some definite range. He's not the smartest guy in the world, but he's still young and he can still learn from a guy like Skiles. He could be a scorer/sparkplug off the bench, although if he were to come here I'd see him as a benchwarmer for a while. He reminds me a of a slower but bigger version of Ricky Davis. I'd give him a chance.


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

i'd be (slightly) more ok with this trade if the hornets got to keep JR's dad.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

fleetwood macbull said:


> probably. But Jax belongs in the league. He's not a team killer. I know thats not saying much.
> 
> Pretty good example. He was thought of as a malingerer too. Kind of actually proved himself. It happens


Agreed. And Jackson has 'kind of' proved himself, 'kind of'. Not the type of player that makes me excited to know he is on the roster. I would rather we go in a different direction if we're giving up Tyson Chandler. Especially since we probably don't have very many minutes available for Smith.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Smith is all wrong for the Bulls. He's really the prototypical anti-PaxSkiles player.

Like Tim Thomas, if you get Smith, you give him a chance to be a part of the team. If he's as hard a case as it sounds like he is, you release him.

If he has any little voice inside him that tells him that the path he's been on has been the wrong one (Tim Thomas didn't have this) and he convinces himself that he actually has to do what his coaches tell him and take the game seriously, Skiles could help make him a player.

I'll keep an open mind, but it's a longshot.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

JR Smith has never seperated him froim Eddie Robinson. And Eddie Robinson wasn't, y'know, that popular here. Both in terms of play and attitude.

Don't expect this to end well. Or even last more than a few weeks.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

transplant said:


> Smith is all wrong for the Bulls. He's really the prototypical anti-PaxSkiles player.
> 
> Like Tim Thomas, if you get Smith, you give him a chance to be a part of the team. If he's as hard a case as it sounds like he is, you release him.
> 
> ...


 you guys are talking me into being less opposed to a Smith trade. I still can't get around the minutes question, though.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Terrible, terrible shot selection.

Volume scorer.


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## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

Regardless if we do get JR Smith he is probably one of the most talented guys on the team... probably between him, Thomas, and Deng. And it isnt like he has a huge salary either. Give him a chance if he doesnt take it release or trade him.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Again, stop with the talented talk, it makes no sense.

What ARE his talents, apart from his physical attributes, with which he does very little?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Sham said:


> Again, stop with the talented talk, it makes no sense.
> 
> What ARE his talents, apart from his physical attributes, with which he does very little?


I think there's a misunderstanding between basketball talent with athletic talent.


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

his talent, is that he was able too fool people into thinking he has talent, 
and thus be our ticket to getting luis scola.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

I made it my personal mission in life about two years to distinctly define thoe terms. I'm not winning.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

'talent' means you have utilized your God given 'ability', and parlayed it into actual production.

If you try to say 'talent' without production, you are confusing things


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## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

The best that I can figure is that he's all body and athleticism but not really a whole lot of brains to match. There would be a good NBA situation out there for him, I don't personally picture Chicago being that destination.

Like I posted earlier, Brown is old, he has some (not much) game left, what he is is a leadership guy and an intangibles guy and those COULD have some value.

I vaguely remember too that after Chris Andersen was dismissed from the NBA in January (now THAT guy makes JR Smith look like a Ph.D.), Brown moved from his normal position to play C, while I haven't really looked deeply into this it might be something to take into consideration when weighing his numbers from last season.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Andersen was PJ's backup at center. PJ was already there. Thye tried to get Steven Hunter to be his new backup, but it didn't work, so they got Aaron Williams instead.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

Ventura said:


> the jib is weak in this one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yeah i like my players as white and non-threating as possible.


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

theyoungsrm said:


> yeah i like my players as white and non-threating as possible.



riiiiiiiiight. let's totally go there.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

theyoungsrm said:


> yeah i like my players as white and non-threating as possible.


 Or else, 

maybe this has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the fact that J.R. Smith is a bad baskeball player?


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

such sweet thunder said:


> Or else,
> 
> maybe thas has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the fact that J.R. Smith is a bad baskeball player?


yeah, but the scenario you describe excludes:nfire: 


on a related note, why did they have to make darth vader black? :starwars:


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

i just don't like the headbands and tattoos comment.....


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

paxman said:


> on a related note, why did they have to make darth vader black? :starwars:


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

how do handbands and tattoos make you dislike a player?


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

theyoungsrm said:


> how do handbands and tattoos make you dislike a player?


how does the absence of them make you "white"?





theyoungsrm said:


> ventura said:
> 
> 
> > the jib is weak with this one. a headband, tatoos...a flashy dunker. i don't like him
> ...


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

theyoungsrm said:


> i just don't like the headbands and tattoos comment.....


It had nothing to do with race. Just headbands and tattoos. Then you brought up race for no reason at all.

Ben Wallace wears a headband, has tattoos (I think), and a massive sling of a wristband. So if you don't like em on Smith, whoever said that will love Ben Wallace......


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## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

me said:


> I vaguely remember too that after Chris Andersen was dismissed from the NBA in January (now THAT guy makes JR Smith look like a Ph.D.), Brown moved from his normal position to play C, while I haven't really looked deeply into this it might be something to take into consideration when weighing his numbers from last season.





Sham said:


> Andersen was PJ's backup at center. PJ was already there. Thye tried to get Steven Hunter to be his new backup, but it didn't work, so they got Aaron Williams instead.


I stand corrected for my memory's sake ... but unfortunately that's how the media in OKC reported it. This is one of the reasons I can't wait for the Hornets to leave town.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

theyoungsrm said:


> how do handbands and tattoos make you dislike a player?


The only one who brought up the headbands and tats was Ventura and he was being facetious . . . as if, we don't like J.R. Smith because he doesn't dress pretty. I don't like Smith because he has no game, and has shown no ability to develop game. Its okay for me to say that. Don't twist my point of view into some racial debate.


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## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

Sham said:


> Ben Wallace wears a headband, has tattoos (I think), and a massive sling of a wristband. So if you don't like em on Smith, whoever said that will love Ben Wallace......


Wallace has tats. Big deal.

To me the big difference between Ben Wallace and JR Smith is summed up this way:

1. Wallace was a player who went undrafted (IIRC) and worked his tail off to get where he is, knows what it takes to get there and stay there.
2. Smith went straight from high school, was drafted high, and probably has learned the hard way that he perhaps not as ready for the NBA as he may have thought.

... THOSE are the things that matter, not that someone wears a headband (Portland's Nate McMillan doesn't like headbands either) or a lot of ink.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

JR Smith joined Dwight Howard, Lebron James, and Amare Stoudemire as players able to average 10+ points per game straight out of high school -- something Tyson Chandler has yet to do his whole career. Did we seriously expect Chandler to only become a poor man's Ben Wallace?

JR Smith is as much of a depth chart casualty as Marquis Daniels was this year.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

not good. inconsistent.


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

TwinkieTowers said:


> JR Smith joined Dwight Howard, Lebron James, and Amare Stoudemire as players able to average 10+ points per game straight out of high school -- something Tyson Chandler has yet to do his whole career. Did we seriously expect Chandler to only become a poor man's Ben Wallace?
> 
> JR Smith is as much of a depth chart casualty as Marquis Daniels was this year.


so averaging 9 rebounds a game in less than 30 minutes is dismissable?


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

paxman said:


> so averaging 9 rebounds a game in less than 30 minutes is dismissable?


Not at all.

However, we are giving JR a lot more hate than he deserves.


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

TwinkieTowers said:


> Not at all.
> 
> However, we are giving JR a lot more hate than he deserves.


true


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## mw2889 (Dec 15, 2005)

I love how people say JR didn't improve when he drastically improved his FT and 3PT percentages, that actually takes hard work.


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## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

Sham said:


> Again, stop with the talented talk, it makes no sense.
> 
> What ARE his talents, apart from his physical attributes, with which he does very little?


Just because you dislike a player doesnt mean he is talented....He hasnt been the player he is capable of and most of it is his own fault but how many times has a change of scenery helped a player out. Just this season look what Tim Thomas did for us and than what he did for Phoenix.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

You didn't answer the question.

What are his talents?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Sham said:


> What are his talents?


He has the ability to find his own shots and make the ball hit the rim, creating offensive rebounding opportunities for his teammates. In that way, he's a fantastic playmaker.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

The guy has been in the league for 2 freaking years. Give him a chance. He can't be worse than some of the other stiffs Skiles used to give some playing time(Pargo and Pike). The work ethic of the players in this organization may rub off on him and I have enough confidence in Skiles to straighten up whatever attitude issues JR has. It's not like we'd be expecting him to produce BIG numbers. If he can be productive in some limited mins. off the bench as a throw-in in a trade, what's the harm in keeping him? Give him a chance. A lot of HSers sucked(some still do and get paid ridiculous money for it) in their first couple of years. Doesn't mean they won't improve. Remember, he's been in the league for only 2 years.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

> He has the ability to find his own shots


While I know you were taking the piss, this is one of the myths that goes around with J.R. Smith - that he's some kind of scoring machine.

Catching and shooting any old crap from 22 feet away doesn't really count as creating your own shot.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Sham said:


> While I know you were taking the piss, this is one of the myths that goes around with J.R. Smith - that he's some kind of scoring machine.
> 
> Catching and shooting any old crap from 22 feet away doesn't really count as creating your own shot.


Well, I don't know about creating. But he certainly finds it.


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## doomraisin (Jun 23, 2006)

kulaz3000 said:


> JR Smith is a JR Ride reincarnated.
> 
> Loads of athletic ability and potential and little brains.
> 
> ...


He'll never dress as a Bull. Neither Skiles nor Paxson would ever sign a player thus quoted.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Deng101 said:


> Just because you dislike a player doesnt mean he is talented....He hasnt been the player he is capable of and most of it is his own fault but how many times has a change of scenery helped a player out. Just this season look what Tim Thomas did for us and than what he did for Phoenix.


no, Sham is right, J.R is a total waste of cap space.


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## doomraisin (Jun 23, 2006)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> no, Sham is right, J.R is a total waste of cap space.


I'm not sure enough people understand management's basketball vision. They are determined to assemble a team that coheres with their idea of the ideal game. They are convinced that a re-emphasis on team play will not only prove effective in producing wins, but improve the quality of the game. They actually hold a deep philisophical view about the game. 

Don't underestimate the stubborness with which they will pursue this vision. Part of their modus operandi is to make sure that they manage the mix of personalities on the team. The league's full of talented guys, but it's a team game. Tim Thomas didn't get hit in the *** with the door because he couldn't play basketball - it was because he is a dillhole. Skiles says nope, Pax backs him up.

Sit back and watch them actually pull it off.


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## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

Sham said:


> You didn't answer the question.
> 
> What are his talents?


Why cant you go find that out yourself. Go find a scouting report on him.....There is a reason he was drafted relatively high out highschool and dominated in the McDonalds all-star game or whatevr its called. Teams dont draft kids out of highschool w/ no talent.


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

The absoloute best case peaches and cream scenario for J.R. Smith on the Bulls is that being surrounded by hardworking teammates and coaches who stress hard work, dedication, teamwork, etc, and actually having something to play for (ie playoffs/championship rather than being stuck in NO although they were better this year) he might start to work on his game and be interested in playing defense and passing. 

As we have seen with the Tim Thomas situation he will either get with the program or he won't be playing any basketball for us. Maybe looking at that will inspire him to cooperate with the coaching staff rather than miss the rest of the season sitting at home, where he would collect no stats (assuming he has the brains to figure that out of course). 

My idea is that we should let Ben Wallace have a free punch on him everytime he misses an asignment or takes a bad shot. That way he will either improve quickly or will be dead before the season is half over and will be off the books.


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

Rawse said:


> He has the ability to find his own shots and make the ball hit the rim, creating offensive rebounding opportunities for his teammates. In that way, he's a fantastic playmaker.




:laugh:


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

doomraisin said:


> He'll never dress as a Bull. Neither Skiles nor Paxson would ever sign a player thus quoted.


JR has NY Knicks written all over him


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

truth said:


> JR has NY Knicks written all over him


jr for frye :clap:


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Surround J.R. with the coach and players the Bulls have now.. he would easily be whipped into shape, and then could possibly become a superstar. He has all the weapons to do so. He just has to learn how to use them.


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## K-Dub (Jun 26, 2005)

Ventura said:


> the jib is weak in this one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ben Wallace will beat the jib into him. :biggrin:


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## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

He's already a great scorer but JR's defense sucks! Still we have to remember that he's only 20 years old and he has much time to improove... I'm sure that he'll be a superstar someday..


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