# OT-Iverson demand a trade.



## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

It's about time,where do you think A.I end's up.I say the knick's or the hawks,maybe even boston.Those are the only team's i know that really would take him and want him baddly.Because i remember over the summer he was surposed to have been traded to the celtic's,or hawk's,but we are in the season now i think that things might change and anther team might enter the picture,thate team being the knick's.Anyway where do you guy's think he ends up.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ballerkingn said:


> It's about time,where do you think A.I end's up.I say the knick's or the hawks,maybe even boston.Those are the only team's i know that really would take him and want him baddly.Because i remember over the summer he was surposed to have been traded to the celtic's,or hawk's,but we are in the season now i think that things might change and anther team might enter the picture,thate team being the knick's.Anyway where do you guy's think he ends up.


If Minnesota can put together the picks/rookie contracts/expiring contracts, they'd be be my guess. How else can they really attempt to save the franchise without dealing KG? 

Denver is the big rumor though. But I just don't know why Philly would deal Iverson for long term deals - and that is what Denver would pretty much have to offer in return. 

I don't know Philly's cap situation sans Iverson, (2 more years of Webber, 5 more of Dalembert?) but I'd think they'd be looking for young'ens, picks and expiring deals. 

Clippers?

Who knows? It'll be interesting, to say the least.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

No doubt that Isiah is all over this one. What scares me is that Billy King is a terrible GM that might actually take back some of the Knicks' garbage.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

yodurk said:


> No doubt that Isiah is all over this one. What scares me is that Billy King is a terrible GM that might actually take back some of the Knicks' garbage.


Marbury, Francis, Frye, James, Lee & Bulls 1st for AI, Webber & Williams

NY gets glitter and rids themselves of 3 bad contracts without embarrassment.
Philly gives Marbury & Francis their 5th new start, and gets some young talent.

Of course AI will be very unhappy with the move, but so what?


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

McBulls said:


> Marbury, Francis, Frye, James, Lee & Bulls 1st for AI, Webber & Williams
> 
> NY gets glitter and rids themselves of 3 bad contracts without embarrassment.
> Philly gives Marbury & Francis their 5th new start, and gets some young talent.


If AI lands in NY, the NY media are going to be on a feeding frenzie. That would definitly be worth keeping an eye on..


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Obviously AI's a great, great player, but gosh, I don't know.

Iverson's not a "missing piece" kind of player. It's hard for me to imagine him as anything other than a team's go-to scorer and most teams already have one of those they like (e.g., Denver-Carmelo) and/or wouldn't want their scoring centerpiece to be an undersized guard. Others have little to trade or have an overriding philosophy into which AI doesn't fit (I mean it's only practice, man).

This brings me to the Knicks. They certainly have the high-priced contracts (Houston or Rose if you want 2007 cap space or Marbury or Francis if you want a replacement).

It's also possible that AI can demand all he wants and not get it. As great as he is, he's not easy to trade.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I think that the idea of AI + Carmelo is SCARY.

If they can get AI for a combination of Dre Miller, Nene, K-Mart and some picks... it's crazy.

Iverson
J.R. Smith
Carmelo
Najera?
Camby!

Evans and Boykins still there to fill in the bench. Would probably have to take Alan Henderson or Steven Hunter too, so that player would be on the bench too.

Sixers have:
Miller
Korver
Iggy
Nene
Dalembert

and next year, K-Mart gets in that lineup along with two hot rookies. The Sixers will already be on their way back up. And with a guy like Andre Miller, the two most stagnant players (Korver and Iggy, both letdowns considering their potential) could become hot stuff. Miller's not a tremendous scorer but he makes players around him better. With Iggy, Nene, K-Mart and Dalembert in the frontcourt, that's some serious defensive intensity. Toss in a Tyler Hansbrough (Denver's pick~ late 1st rounder) and Joakim Noah (Philly's pick~ early lottery), and the team has the quickest turnaround and rebuild.

I think the trade looks fair.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Showtyme said:


> I think that the idea of AI + Carmelo is SCARY.
> 
> If they can get AI for a combination of Dre Miller, Nene, K-Mart and some picks... it's crazy.
> 
> ...


AI, Smithe and Carmello would be flipping coins to see who gets to chuck it up next. AI would win almost every time. JR would have a temper-tantrum and refuse to use the potty. Carmelo would demand a trade.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

So no one is gonna try? What would it take to bring AI to Chicago?


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

yea the denver deal sounds good because the sixers need a PG and some PF/Cs.


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

I agree that Iverson is probably the hardest guy to trade in the league. Not only because of his contract, but you basically have to revamp your entire offense to permit the number of shots that AI needs to take in a game to be happy.

As you may recall, Iverson was being shopped all summer w/o any success. Because Zeke has nothing to lose if the deal goes sour (he is out anyway if the team doesn't improve), I suspect the Knicks could be a destination. If they can get rid of Marbury and some other horrible contracts I can see NY doing that deal. The downside is that Curry would no longer be the focus of their offense just when he is breaking out.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

For NY, how likely is it that they trade within the division? I guess it doesn't matter as much since they're not going anywhere, but still


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

What I would give up to get AI, and that works under trade checker:

*We Get:
AI

We Give Up:
PJ, Benny Gordon, Victor, and Marty Vicious. *

_If we need to, add our 2nd rounders, and a future 1st. Maybe 2008 pick. But anything but next years. _



They get 2 expiring contracts, and two 1 year deals. Ben Gordon is a guy who can score and replace what AI does to a lesser degree.

The trade also works if we receive Hunter, and add Sweets and Malik while retaining Marty. I rather not do this as we would have no big men, and it would require Tyrus to play heavy minutes. While I would like that, I do believe he is not ready for it. Especially if he gets in foul trouble quickly.

I do think Philly would want the NYK pick especially since the only 'name' they are getting back is Ben Gordon. However, for whatever garbage the Celts and Sixers were talking about last year, this would seem like similar value. They would have used the Celts 7th pick on Foye, who is a local name.

If we would somehow get extremely lucky and pull off a trade like I stated, I think we would have great success with Iverson. He would be surrounded by great finishers (Deng), and solid perimeter shooting. We would be a better 2001 Philadelphia 76ers.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

the 6er's have done a poor job of using A.I ever sense the 99 season when he made the finally's.I mean they had the bull print of how to win with him that season of coutless year's of running quality off the team.I don't know why the gm hasn't redone that a roster like that 1 again,and just let A.I play his game.I really think that if he put together anther team like the 6er team of the 99 season A.I might have played in 2 more final's and maybe won 1 because the east has been open for year's,and just how the piston stole a championship i cann't see how A.I couldn't have stole 1 too.To me thier GM is reason for the 6er's struggles,not A.I.

As for his future,i cann't see him winning a championship now at his current age and at the end of his career with that small body,how much does he have lefted is my biggest has to come to mind,and if he still has some left can he still lead a team deep in the playoff's.I really think he's boat as sailed and that he won't win a ring unless he does the GP and coat tail a dominate player,like a Tim Duncan,Dirk,D-wade,Lebron,etc...


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Reading the article, I think Billy King wants to get a deal done soon. According to RealGM, the 76ers and Nuggets are having talks about Iverson. If Pax wants to get a star player, a legit scorer soon, this is the guy. While I think the Nuggets can give bigger 'names', they are not friendly contracts. The Sixers would still be near the Luxury Tax Threshold. Maybe we add the NYK pick if it is top 5 protected? 

With the trade I proposed, they get a lot of cap room in a year where they could get Vince Carter. Would I add Noce or Deng for this deal, maybe, but probably not.


Random thought:
I can see Paxson going after AI. He tried to get Amare at the deadline last year, when the rumor was we were going after Marion. *But, I can see Skiles being Anti-AI. * We can't have a star because our coach has he biggets Ego of them all. Obviously, he's not 100%, with practice and being a guy who doesn't play in a HS/College offense. We would never want to do with a player who averages 10 FT attempts a game. 

While I do think Iverson is selfish at times, but I think it was due to his situation. We would be as good defensively as the 2001 Sixers, but 10x more talented on offense. Our guys can shoot.

Other thought:
If I'm Kevin Mchale, I'm offering the farm to have a chance for Iverson to play with KG.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

ESPN:

During the Sixers game tonight, the Chairman of the 76ers was interviewed. Billy King and him are reviewing all options, and AI has more than likely played his last game with the 76ers.

I think a deal will get done very soon. Paxson better be up all night negotiating. If you replace Gordon with AI, we go from a playoff team to a championship team.

I am going to be pissed if Denver gets him for contracts like Kmart, etc. 

You can be sure Ainge will be talking, but we have EXPIRING deals. 

PAXSON, PHONE NOW!

Edit: Hubie Brown says that the teams that have interest are:
Boston, Denver, Minny, and Atlanta. Theser are teams that have had talks with the Sixers since last year. 

Atlanta has the cap room to absorb AI's contract. The rest would not have much better to offer than us. We would give them a young player and expiring contracts versus another 5 year contract of horrible players.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Jim Gray:

76ers ask AI not to come to the game. 

AI doesn't know, but thinks the situation will likely not be mended.

*AI hopes to get traded ASAP, his preference: Minny*

You can bet they want Foye back. I don't know how soon rookies can be traded though.

Gordon > Foye, but Foye is a well-known name in Philly. But, to make it work, Minny would have to send such garbage (long contracts) back.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

Foye McCants Hudson for Iverson


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I don't see any circumstance where AI fits with us.

I read in Vescey's column some speculation the Sixers would maybe part with Dalembert or Iggy to get rid of Webber too.

I'd strongly consider that. I know we're now deep at the guard spots, but he'd be another asset in case we made a trade (which a lot of us see as likely), and a more ready version of Thabo.

I've mentioned Webber before. He's only got this year and next on his deal, so he's a limited risk.

Still, I think that sort of thing is pretty unlikely. I think the Nugs, TWolves or Celtics probably make the most sense. I don't see why a young team like the Hawks would acquire him, at all.

I don't see that any of those teams offer a lot of interest to the Sixers. Any deal would necessitate them taking back a couple of bad contracts from the Nuggets or TWolves, so I guess they'd prefer the TWolves so they could get local boy Randy Foye.

The Celtics could conceivably take both Webber and AI from them as well as a young guy or two, which would give the Sixers a clean start. If I'm the Sixers, that's what I'd push for. Something like

* Webber and AI to the Celtics
* Ratliff, Wally, Scalabrine, Telfair, Jefferson, West to the Sixers

works under the cap.

The Celtics would have
1- AI, Rondo
2- Allen, Green
3- Pierce
4- Webber, Gomes
5- Perkins, Kandi

I dunno if that gets anywhere, but I guess it's got a puncher's chance.

The Sixers
1- Telfair, Ollie, West
2- Iguodala, Green, Carney
3- Wally, Korver
4- Jefferson, Scalabrine, Henderson
5- Dalembert, Hunter

Oof.... not so good. But hey, they're young.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Bulls rock your socks said:


> Foye McCants Hudson for Iverson


Doesn't work under trade Checker. 

Foye and McCants greater than Gordon and 2008 1st rounder? 

*Jim Gray on during halftime:*


Paraphrased:


> AI says there is a trade in the works with Minny.


 It is the only team AI has mentioned that trade discussions are going on, or he is interested in? I'm not sure as Gray was vague about this.

AI seems like his heart is on Minny, as he would play beside another superstar. Usually takes two stars to win it.

We can try to offer a great deal, but it would come down to AI feeling like he can win it in Chicago. He could see Chicago as another Philadelphia. No support.

I do not see AI and KG being enough to come out of the West. In the East, definitely. However, that team has no depth and I just don't see enough role players to outlast Dallas or San Antonio in a 7 game series. The Clippers would probably still beat the 'new' look TWolves.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

George Karl tells Jim Gray the Nuggets are not interested, FWIW.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> I don't see any circumstance where AI fits with us.
> 
> I read in Vescey's column some speculation the Sixers would maybe part with Dalembert or Iggy to get rid of Webber too.
> 
> ...


Personally, I'm not sure how dealing Allen Iverson for Randy Foye and NBA excrement is really in their best interest.

If I had to guess, I think Philly would be best off sitting on their heels and waiting until the trade deadline creeps up, even if they have to hoard AI on the IR until then. Because if they're really intent on making a move ASAP the only thing I see them getting are the type of deals you mentioned from teams that look like they're pretty desperate to make any move just for the sake of initiating change.

Of course, by the time the deadline rolls around, they might get the same thing, but I don't see how it would hurt, since the team didn't look like it was about to go anywhere with Iverson there, and I'd say there's a decent chance that either 

a). There's a team that thinks getting him would put them over the top, and to do so would give up a lot of their future leverage in picks, young players, and expiring contracts

b). Sucky GM's like Danny Ainge and Isiah Thomas will be in full blown survival mode and are willing to do something really foolish to placate the growing dissatisfaction everyone has with the sucky teams that they built.

With any luck, they might be able to get Isiah to cough up Channing Frye, David Lee, one of Marbury or Francis, and alternating 1st round draft picks for the next 10 years.

EDIT: I just reread your post a little more carefully, and I think I should temper my criticism of your trades a little bit. The Philly one, upon inspection, does look to be pretty feasible, at least considering the circumstances. Although if I was Philly, I'd just leave Webber where he is, take out some of the mediocre youngers guys that Boston has to offer and replace them with an unprotected draft pick, which I think would make more sense for them.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

theanimal23 said:


> Doesn't work under trade Checker.
> 
> Foye and McCants greater than Gordon and 2008 1st rounder?
> 
> ...


Of all the crappy teams that would seem to be natural fits to make a strong move for Iverson, Minnesota would seem to make the most sense for him.

I think he would matchup well with KG, (quite well, in fact); and if they got AI back, it would definitely be a move to win in the short term, and would make guys like Ricky Davis and Randy Foye pretty expendable.

I'm not sure what the deal is with Minny and their draft pick next year, which I believe is owed to the Clippers, but if they used that, with Randy Foye and Ricky Davis and various filler, it might make for a decent package for both teams.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

This is the type of deal I think Pax should jump on. Iverson demanding a trade means there's no way Philly can expect equal value in return. I don't know what AI's salary is but I think PJ Brown's expiring deal and Ben Gordon is a good starting point. Whatever filler is necessary to make it work can be ironed out.


Reasons I'd like him as a Bull...

We would automatically go from being one of the worst teams in FT differential to one of the best. Iverson solves our lack of FTA's problem all by himself! I've always HATED how he gets every call, but if he joined the Bulls then suddenly I'd be McDonald's loving it.

He's also a warrior out on the court. Skiles keeps talking about Nocioni needing to suffer a bullet wound before sitting out a game, but Iverson is simply one of a kind when it comes to playing through bumps & bruises, especially when you consider his size and how many times he throws his body around. 

Remember Iverson's 2001 Eastern Conference championship team? I think our team would be MUCH better than that one and there is no dominant Lakers team standing in the way this year. 

That 2001 Sixers team was coached by "right way" Larry Brown. They were anchored in the middle by the reigning DPOY in Dikembe Mutombo, while we have the current DPOY in Wallace. Their perimeter players were all scrappy, hard nosed types like Raja Bell, Eric Snow, Aaron McKie and George Lynch. Comparable to Duhon, Hinrich, Griffin, Deng, Nocioni, Thabo...except our supporting cast is younger, deeper, and more talented. We would easily make it through the eastern conference and into the NBA Finals, IMO.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

SALO said:


> This is the type of deal I think Pax should jump on. Iverson demanding a trade means there's no way Philly can expect equal value in return. I don't know what AI's salary is but I think PJ Brown's expiring deal and Ben Gordon is a good starting point. Whatever filler is necessary to make it work can be ironed out.
> 
> 
> Reasons I'd like him as a Bull...
> ...


:clap: This is what I have been saying all along in this thread. Everything you have mentioned. 

If AI prefers playing for Minny, its because he wants to play beside another star, preferably a big man. If Paxson does not attempt to acquire Iverson, something is terribly wrong. He always says how our team lacks a star player, a go-to scorer, a guy who can get his 20ppg easily. How many guys will be available in February? Iverson > Pierce >>> Randolph.

I mentioned a trade earlier on the first page. While it is not sexy, it gives the Sixers cap relief and Ben Gordon. I say we add a 2008 1st rounder if needed. I'm unwilling to give up Deng/Noce, but if it really came down to giving up 2 players for AI, it might have to be done.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

How about Ben Gordon, Chris Duhon,Viktor and PJ for AI and Hunter?


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## NeTs15VC (Aug 16, 2005)

yodurk said:


> No doubt that Isiah is all over this one. What scares me is that Billy King is a terrible GM that might actually take back some of the Knicks' garbage.


No way would the Sixers trade AI to a team in the same division as them, they'll just drop to last place in the Atlantic division


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

L.O.B said:


> How about Ben Gordon, Chris Duhon,Viktor and PJ for AI and Hunter?


It works for me. We get a big body (another 6 fouls) to replace PJ. I wanted Hunter last year for a 2nd round pick, as I believe the Hornets were offering that.

My gut feeling says I'll wake up tomorrow, and a deal with Minny will be completed by then.

If there was a time to move, it is now. Otherwise, I don't see us being able to get a SuperStar player without completely gutting our team. Pierce signed an extension, and is no Iverson. KG will be staying put obviously. Randolph is a bad character guy, bad enough, that I'm weary on taking him. Plus he has an extremely long contract, incase that does not work out.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

FWIW, Jim Gray mentioned later on the broadcast that apparently he was duped by an AI imposter, and AI's agent called him to disavow the comments about the Minny deal. :lol:

gotta love Jimmy.


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> FWIW, Jim Gray mentioned later on the broadcast that apparently he was duped by an AI imposter, and AI's agent called him to disavow the comments about the Minny deal. :lol:
> 
> gotta love Jimmy.



After Gray first mentioned the trade to Minny I switched to the TWolves/Jazz game and Tom Hanneman and Jim Peterson (the TWolves broadcasters)were unaware that a Philly/Minnesota trade was in the works. They had heard that Iverson wanted out and were saying how any team that would want a guy with so much mileage on him would be crazy. It was funny because they were unaware at the time that AI could have been headed their way.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Rosenthall - Yeah, Randy Foye :lol:

I guess my point is Philly probably isn't going to get a lot more by waiting. McHale and Ainge are already desperate. Whatever deal they'll offer they're probably willing to offer now.

Plus did you catch the interview with Philly's owner. He seemed like the sooner they were done with him the better.

As far as what other teams will give up to get AI, again, I can't imagine it'd be a lot. Honestly the TWolves have nothing I'd want if I were the Sixers. I can see them wanting Foye for the local connection, but sheesh, the Wolves have some ugly contracts and bad players.

You really think Isaiah would want in on AI? That'd be a ridiculously bad move for them to give up any of their young guys. And why would the Sixers want marbury or Francis?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Think about this...


Hinrich & Iverson in the backcourt?

Do you know how much CHAOS they would cause? Especially since Hinrich doesn't even wanna be a chucker? He'd average 10 apg playing with A.I.

A.I. being on the floor also free's up TON's of opprotunities for Deng to get easy baskets or Noc to get open trey's.


A.I, Hinrich & Wallace > A.I.'s Mutombo, Snow & Brown team

This dude averages 30 & 7 man?! imagine letting him go back to SG now?

GET EM

Duhon, Noc, Sweetney & Brown's expiring contracts for A.I. & Shawn Hunter

G Hinrich , Barret
G Iverson , Sefolosha
F Deng , Khyrapa
F Allen , Thomas
C Wallace , Hunter

They get a good young Eric Now like PG & one of the most exciting euro's in the league in Noc...two expiring contracts and a couple of future 1sts or somethin


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

ROY, and others, 

The question is, do you think Pax even attempted to call Billy King? I think Pax might give a call to see what King would want, but I would think Skiles would be against this possible acquisition. I don't think Pax would be 100% for it, but I think he'd try to get a feel of what it would take to land AI.

If we can somehow get him by just giving up BG7 out of our core, it is as definite of a move you can have. 

Would anyone do this move if you had to include the draft pick? It would break my heart if the pick ended up being top two, but the chance of that is small. So it's a tough one for me.

I would offer Duhon too if needed. Again, BG, Victor, PJ, and Sweets works under tradechecker (whatever trade I had on page 1) for AI. 

Iverson's presence would lead to several easy baskets for Deng. Noce and Hinrich would have more open 3s. We would not have to worry about FTs, as Iverson would average 10 himself.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

id say have a 4 way trade with the twolves, atlanta, and boston. atlanta trades marvin williams to philly. AI goes to the twolves for foye hudson and jaric going to philly. steven hunter rajon rondo tony allen to atlanta. Boston gets a future 1st round pick from atlanta and 2nd rounders from sixers.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

theanimal23 said:


> ROY, and others,
> 
> The question is, do you think Pax even attempted to call Billy King? I think Pax might give a call to see what King would want, but I would think Skiles would be against this possible acquisition. I don't think Pax would be 100% for it, but I think he'd try to get a feel of what it would take to land AI.
> 
> ...


um i dont think so. iverson wears a headband and and arm sleeve and armbands.


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

AND corn rows.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhxHH8PNMDqZ2h9clT3TeS45nYcB?slug=aw-iverson120806&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



> The Dallas Mavericks and Boston Celtics have emerged as the leaders to trade for disgruntled Philadelphia 76ers star Allen Iverson, league executives told Yahoo! Sports on Friday night.
> 
> According to sources, 76ers general manager Billy King has targeted Mavericks guard Devin Harris – a favorite of the executive's going back to Harris' college days at Wisconsin – as a primary piece to a potential package with Dallas.
> 
> Mavericks owner Mark Cuban wouldn't deny that he's engaged in trying to make a deal for Iverson but wrote in an email to Yahoo! Sports on Friday night, "We wouldn't trade Devin."


Seriously, what do the Celtics have to offer? 

Devin Harris is decent, but I have to think Ben Gordon is at least of equal value. Maybe more since he can put points up in a hurry at times, which would get the crowds attention (marketing standpoint). 

I personally don't think its a great move for Dallas, as I think AI's and Dirk's games would not mesh well. Kudos to Cuban always willing to possibly take a risk, especially on a high profile player.

I think we can have Iverson on the cheaps, especially if Boston is a front runner.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

Bulls rock your socks said:


> um i dont think so. iverson wears a headband and and arm sleeve and armbands.



Not to mention, Practice! You talkin' about Practice!

Seriously, if we give him a try, how would he feel with skiles as coach. Skiles obviously demands all the hardwork including practice. 

Also aside from that the only time they went to the Finals is with brown, ever since it seems as though they try to put guys like 'Big Dog' Glenn Robinson, Mutombo, Van horn, Webber, kukoc & many others and have failed to mesh with Iverson and the 76ers. I just don't know if it's the coaches or AI who seems to always have the ball in his hand.

AI would be better suited in NY, which is not saying much.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I think Chicago is the best place for Iverson.

He would replace Gordon and start at the 2. The Bulls have the defensive minded role players to surround Iverson and a few guys who can also hit the 3.

Plus Chicago needs a big scoring threat.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

There is little chance that "what, me practice?" Iverson would be able to play under Skiles, IMO.

He's not a PaxSkiles Bulls type of player.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

It looks to me as if their definintely trying to be the FRONT runner in the Oden/Durant sweepstakes


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> There is little chance that "what, me practice?" Iverson would be able to play under Skiles, IMO.
> 
> He's not a PaxSkiles Bulls type of player.


i agree; as much as i respect the passion of iverson and what he brings to each game, paxson, for all his speeches about being professional, playing the right way, blah, blah, blah, would be loathe to bring a guy like AI to the bull. even with wallace on board to potentially keep him in check, his need to dominate the ball wouldn't work with the bull either.

iverson has been been paired with so many high level pros that still play, yet NO ONE has meshed with his game. the bull tries to operate on balanced scoring and AI is the antithesis of that. on top of which, he hates practice?


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Iverson > Skiles

Just get a new coach, Skiles sucks anyway.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Amareca said:


> Iverson > Skiles
> 
> Just get a new coach, Skiles sucks anyway.


Perhaps most NBA teams feel that way.

The Bulls are not one of them, right or wrong.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Man, FORGET skiles...


This situation reminds me of Rasheed going to the Pistons a few years back after being labeled a good player but a headache....


A.I. & Big Ben would do DAMAGE together....A.I. is still one of the most lethal scorer's in the league...we'd be a threat every single night...

Fire Skiles and bring in Larry Brown to keep both of them in line


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

I have a feeling he's going to end up in Boston. Ratliff's contract would expire with Webber, thay could give Phili a future pick, Rondo or Telfair, Green or West, Gomes or Jefferson.

I hope I'm right. That way both Bos and Phili won't get in the way of our pick, only Phili will.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

Ratliff, Rondo, Green, Gomes, and maybe a 1st round pick. philly gets some guards which they need depth at. Rondo can be there future PG. Green can turn into a superstar, but has to pass AI2. Gomes is a nice post player to help out Webber.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

kukoc4ever said:


> There is little chance that "what, me practice?" Iverson would be able to play under Skiles, IMO.
> 
> He's not a PaxSkiles Bulls type of player.


I completely agree, K4E. For all the "Paxson doesn't use the phone" comments, that are just horse**** in my opinion, this is one where I think its pretty safe to make that assumption.

I don't see Paxson entertaining any trade whatsoever for Iverson. I don't think his personality or his offensive style fit in with what Paxson and Skiles are trying to do. 

Right or wrong (I happen to be a big Iverson fan), I suspect that this is the reality of the situation.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Skiles was on MJH on Monday (before all this demanding trade stuff came down) and actually was asked about AI. Very interesting comments by Skiles.


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## Cager (Jun 13, 2002)

Many of the teams mentioned as trade partners for AI make no sense for Philly. Think about what you would want if your Philly. You need to totally rebuild your roster and you have two major obstacles, Webber and AI. You only want young talented players, expiring contracts and great draft picks. You don't need or want journeymen with multiple year contracts that may help you win more games this year. What you want is to tank the year because this is the best draft since Lebron, Melo and Wade. If you can't find a way to include webber ( which for Boston would probably make sense) , then you want a large expiring contract ( or a team with cap room), a draft choice and hopefully a talented young guard. Also , contrary to most experts, the 76ers should care less if they trade within the division. The only consideration is what is best to build a contender in the next 2-4 years. Niether Minny nor Denver have what Philly needs and probably not enough even if they involve a third team. Actually the Bulls have the best opportunity to get AI ( if they want) or KG in the future.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

spongyfungy said:


> Skiles was on MJH on Monday (before all this demanding trade stuff came down) and actually was asked about AI. *Very interesting comments by Skiles*.


And??????


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Penguin! said:


> Right or wrong (I happen to be a big Iverson fan), I suspect that this is the reality of the situation.


Count me as wanting no part of AI. Those who know me probably aren't surprised, but believe it or not, it's not because of his image. I feel like AI is one of the hardest working (despite the whole "practice" episode) and most talented players in the league. I feel, though, that he's his own worst enemy. If you need to dominate the ball, don't get upset with team mates who don't dominate the ball.... he gets upset that some of the others aren't taking over, or stepping up, but I feel like his game and style of play is a prohibitive factor in allowing some of the others to take initiative. I feel like any AI team will be only as good as AI, because that's what his style of play dictates.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

I don't think Iverson would be a good fit here at all. I'm shocked that people seem to like the idea of getting him, our motion offense has looked so good the past few games and he'd totally gum it up. I like the young nucleus we've got. What really concerns me though, is the idea that New York might swing a deal to get AI, as I imagine they'd definitely win at least 35 games or so with him on board. Here's hoping Danny Ainge puts something nice together.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Does anyone else think this could be our only opportunity to land a superstar? Even if AI doesn't go to Minny, we would have to gut the entire team to land KG. Its likely that Pierce won't be going anywhere, and I think AI is the superior player between the two. 

We won't go after any talented, but troubled big men like Randolph. I would be very cautious myself if we were targeting him as our post-scorer. 

If Philly would take our expiring deals, Gordon as the primary player, and at worse Duhon, how is this a bad deal? Do people here really think any player on our team will groom into a Tier 1 Superstar? I sure as hell don't. We won't win a championship with this core of players. It's been 3 years, and only Deng and Noce have shown considerable improvement. But none of their games resemble a superstar. Hell, no one can get to the FT line on our team. 

Hinrich's game has been steady throughout his career. Gordon's inconsistancies is his consistancy. He's getting to be as one-dimensional as they come. Bank our chances on Tyrus? Thats a lot to hope for. He can become a star player, but he can become another Tyson Chandler.

I would keep the NYK pick, but its a minute chance we get Oden. 

If you can give up Gordon and fillers for AI (if thats what it would take), how is that a bad decision? You go from an inconsistant 15ppg kid to the 3rd leading ppg scorer of all time. A top FTM/FTA player, and a guy whose new team is built around defense and good perimeter players.

I'm sorry, but if want to win a championship, a risk will need to be taken sometime soon. By no way, will our internal improvement lead us to a championship unless we luck into Oden. Our guys are solid players, but not superstars.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> There is little chance that "what, me practice?" Iverson would be able to play under Skiles, IMO.
> 
> He's not a PaxSkiles Bulls type of player.


I remember sometime in the past two years when some interviewer asked Skiles a question about AI. Skiles pretty much laughed it off and said "no way." I remember at that at the time, I was surprised he didn't offer a more political answer.

Skiles and AI would be a disaster. Paxson is not going to go get him.

I agree K4E. I still think potentially available acquisitions such as Garnett, J. O'Neal, and Gasol would be worth so much more to the Bulls. The one thing I will say about Iverson is that he is transcending the longevity I expect from a guy his size. I really think he's going to be good for at least the remainder of Wallace's contract (when he's healthy enough to be on the court).


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

first of all there is a 0 chance of us getting AI. Second of all if AI does go to Minny, then we wont get Garnett at all cause thats the only reason AI wants to go to Minny.


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## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

San Antonio Express-News -


> Mike Monroe of the San Antonio Express-News reports that Allen Iverson told the Sixers he would prefer to be traded to either the Bulls or Celtics.
> 
> He also reports that the Nuggets and Pacers are interested in becomming involved with the talks


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

RealGM, Minny Owner says it will be hard to land AI due to how much money (players) they would have to send back. 

Nice to see us sit pat, since Coaches are what win you games. JO has become more of an outside shooter, isn't a true low post presence. We can sit around all day and wait for KG like the entire league has for the past 5 years. Then give up 4 young players to land him. We could pretend that Gordon becomes AI, Hinrich becomes Stockton, Deng becomes Grant Hill, and Tyrus will be Shawn Kemp II next year. 

While we will be solid, lets face it, we don't have a team (yet) that could beat the West. We could get into the ECF, but thats as far as we'll go. Our team struggles to win, unless 3 of our players get 17 ppg, and we keep our TOs down. We don't attempt any FTs, and we live and die by the jumpshot. Its hard to see it work to win us 16 games in the playoffs while teams can make adjustments.


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## coolFilipino (Jan 19, 2003)

I've got it!

Get AI
Fire Skiles
Get Brown to coach AI & Wallace again!


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/43653/20061209/chicago_or_boston_iversons_top_choices/

anyone heard this.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

I don't think Skiles would want him, because the focus of the offense would be Iverson, and Skiles always goes on and on about how he preaches sharing the ball and that he gets made if only 1 player touches the ball or has the ball most of the time


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

ballerkingn said:


> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/43653/20061209/chicago_or_boston_iversons_top_choices/
> 
> anyone heard this.


Oh snap, although that means nothing to King. Maybe our butt kicking really impressed him lol. Actually reading the actual article they link to, it doesn't say AI prefers us, it says the Sixers reached out to us, holy crap it's possible

Meanwhile, I get the feeling that the Sixers have been secretly praying for this day


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## badfish (Feb 4, 2003)

I'm really torn on this. My first instinct was no freaking way! Long live JIB! The more I've been thinking about this, the more I am warming up to the idea. Especially, the idea of a Gordon, Duhon, Pj, Sweets package that LOB suggested.

Though I'm not completely sold, I do think AI could mesh with the current Bulls team. Hinrich is the perfect guard to pair with AI. Thabo would also complement him very well. Deng and Noc provide the slashing and outside shooting that AI could exploit as defenses overplay him. Thomas, Wallace, and Allen provide a nice combination of athleticism, defense and outside shooting to make the most of AI's penetration offense and sometimes over agressive defense.

Iverson is a very capable passer and has posted insane assist totals when he has teammates that can finish. We would lose a bit of our ball movement (that I love), but I don't think we would lose all of it. I think we could find a happy medium. Frankly, I think the defensive attention that AI commands by himself and the plethora of high IQ, unselfish passing that our current players exhibit would be absolutely lethal.

The issue with Skiles? Maybe it would be a problem, maybe it wouldn't. I certainly think Skiles respects AI's play on the court. I've always thought AI had off the charts "on-court JIB". AI had supposedly already asked for a trade before our game but he still played his butt off, even after the game was out of hand. Off the court is another matter. However, I think we are beyond the point of worrying about ridding ourselves of the losing culture and contaminatig a young impressionable team. We are in a position to win. That should be our focus. 

That said, I wouldn't give up more than one core piece to get him. Anything more would have to be a slam dunk. AI isn't a slam dunk. Tough call.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I don't care if AI wants to come here, I can't see the Bulls wanting him.

If the Bulls _were _willing to make a go of it, what sort of deal would make sense for us? I really wouldn't give up too much for a 31 year old oft-injured six footer.

I mean, I guess Gordon has to go because I don't see how you can play Gordon and AI together. But I'm not wildly enthusiastic about trading young for old. I wouldn't give up more, and I wouldn't give up the pick next year either.

I guess something like this would work for the Bulls:
Bulls send: PJ Brown, Gordon, Sweetney, Khyrapa
Sixers send: Iverson, Steven Hunter, Alan Henderson

1- Kirk, Duhon
2- AI, Thabo
3- Deng, Griffin
4- Noc, Thomas, Henderson
5- Wallace, Hunter, Allen

Jeez, i must hae had some koolaid at lunch


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

If Skiles is why we can't take the next step, he has to be gone. While there are star players who may have perfect jib on and off the court, it is really hard to find that. Few guys have it, a la Duncan.

For those who say AI won't win us a championship, I feel the same about KG. In a perfect world, those two would be together. But, I think we all prefer KG due to us lacking a post-presence. However to land KG, we will lose our perimeter shooting, since that is all we have. 

We would be a vastly better 2001 Philadelphia 76ers, who would be the leading candidates to win the East. We would be able to give the West a fight in the finals.

A trade that makes sense for the 76ers (works under trade checker: 

AI for BG7, PJ, Duhon, and Victor.

They get a solid PG who is cheap, a guy who can score and get the fans attention in Gordon, and expiring contract in PJ, and a guy on a rookie contract who started 50-some games for PTL the year before. The trade also works if we throw in Sweets, but I'd like to keep him since we would lose two big men. Plus the 76ers already have 15 players, so they would have to cut a few. That would not be an issue as they have a bunch of scrubs who have expiring deals and likely get little to no PT.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

You know, this probably has nothing to do with anything, but remember when Andre Dawson practically had to beg the Cubs to sign him as a free agent? I don't remember the GM (Dallas Green?), but it seems as though they didn't think he fit in. But Dawson knew Wrigley field was perfect for him and his career.

I'm just randomly wondering if there might possibly be any parallels with AI.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

Iverson's game would completely stunt the growth of our own players. I don't have a problem with his attitude or lack of jib, but an Iverson-led team can only be successful with a certain type of roster.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

If we really could get AI for a decent price, you would have to consider doing it and firing Skiles. You might as well just fire Skiles once the trade is make, why delay the inevitable? Skiles has surprised me in the past though.....

But if we really could land AI with Gordon and change, you have to think about it very hard.. The guy is a special player and if you want to maximize the Wallace signing you should be a "win now" team. 

The scary thing is all the BS that come with AI. He's clearly not good enough to put a team on his back and get to the finals anymore. At some point, like most players, he'll probably be willing to augment his game a tad and play a more team based approach to maximize his chances at getting to the Finals again.

I would hope that Paxson would at least see what it takes to land him, especially if there is interest on the Iverson and Philly side.

If the jib mentality really makes the idea of acquiring Iverson for a song a non-starter, then its really time to re-think what the goal of the Chicago Bulls is. OTOH, you really would have to alter a lot of what Paxson and Skiles have been building here the last 3 years.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> If we really could get AI for a decent price, you would have to consider doing it and firing Skiles. You might as well just fire Skiles once the trade is make, why delay the inevitable? Skiles has surprised me in the past though.....
> 
> But if we really could land AI with Gordon and change, you have to think about it very hard.. The guy is a special player and if you want to maximize the Wallace signing you should be a "win now" team.
> 
> ...


I don't buy the idea of maximizing the Wallace signing. That's a sunk cost and considering it as anything but is bad business.

The Bulls should move forward and do what they expect will be best for the team in the short and long run.


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## badfish (Feb 4, 2003)

Good Hope said:


> You know, this probably has nothing to do with anything, but remember when Andre Dawson practically had to beg the Cubs to sign him as a free agent? I don't remember the GM (Dallas Green?), but it seems as though they didn't think he fit in. But Dawson knew Wrigley field was perfect for him and his career.
> 
> I'm just randomly wondering if there might possibly be any parallels with AI.


I really do think AI is one player that would negate the need for a traditional low post presence. His ability to get anywhere on the floor with his speed and finishing ability combined with players who move well without the ball, finish at the rim and knock down open jumpers would be quite potent.

The pure shooter scorer types like Allen, Stojakavic and Redd need more of a low post presence to open up their games.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

Well if that report is true, I guess this disproves the notion that Headbandgate would cause big named players to not want to play for the Bulls crazy college style system...maybe we made too big a deal out of the effect Skiles coaching has on the team?

Even still, I would say that there is less then 1% chance that Iverson is a Bull


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Frankensteiner said:


> Iverson's game would completely stunt the growth of our own players. I don't have a problem with his attitude or lack of jib, but an Iverson-led team can only be successful with a certain type of roster.


We have that roster to be successful. And we've seen how much growth our guys have done in 3-4 years. It's good enough to go to the playoffs, but not enough to win it all. If we keep our core, we won't win it all without being lucky in landing Oden/Durant or somehow having Pax and especially Skiles having the balls to get a franchise player. 

What star doesn't have the ball in his hands that many times a game? Kobe? Check. Wade? Check. LBJ? Check. All of them do, b/c they are the best on their team.

I question our teams motives, and others if we seriously question whether Iverson would be an upgrade to our team or not? The guy is still damn good. Do people really think that Gordon will become a superstar? He won't. Never. The kid talks about how he will attack the FT line, he doesn't. He gets relagated to the bench. He goes for 35 one night, 12 the next. 

If Skiles is holding the team back from acquiring a star like AI, he needs to be shown the door. I question Pax's ability as a GM too, if we can get any superstar with slight jib issues for a bargain price. Even this past offseason, in the draft, his picks were not risky. Tyrus may not pan out, but he was one of the top rated talents in each mock draft. ESPN had him as the #1 overall talent. Thabo was a proven commodity in Europe, and other teams wanted him. 

No risk, no reward. We are a team of hard workers with a lack of talent in a sport geared toward talented individuals. This isn't football, where a hardworking team and system can lead you to a championship. Detroit is an exception, and that only comes around so often. We can win, but won't win the big one with this current core unless we get Oden.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

badfish said:


> I really do think AI is one player that would negate the need for a traditional low post presence. His ability to get anywhere on the floor with his speed and finishing ability combined with players who move well with out the ball, finish at the rim and knock down open jumpers would be quite potent.
> 
> The pure shooter scorer types like Allen, Stojakavic and Redd need more of a low post presence to open up their games.


Word


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## badfish (Feb 4, 2003)

Frankensteiner said:


> Iverson's game would completely stunt the growth of our own players. I don't have a problem with his attitude or lack of jib, but an Iverson-led team can only be successful with a certain type of roster.


Just curious. What type of roster would that be? My opinion is that our roster might be that type of roster. More so, than say, Boston's roster.


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## badfish (Feb 4, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> If we really could get AI for a decent price, you would have to consider doing it and firing Skiles. You might as well just fire Skiles once the trade is make, why delay the inevitable? Skiles has surprised me in the past though.....
> 
> But if we really could land AI with Gordon and change, you have to think about it very hard.. The guy is a special player and if you want to maximize the Wallace signing you should be a "win now" team.
> 
> ...


My read on Skiles is that he abhors the type of player that doesn't get after in practice and the offseason *because* that usually translates to the games. Rose, Curry, Chandler, and even Crawford have all had issues with gametime lapses. Days when they just didn't bring it for whatever reason. Tim Thomas had a history of that so he nipped that one in the bud.

Iverson has always struck me as a player who always "brung it" for the games. I don't remember a time in his career where he just coasted, even during those times when he had issues with Larry Brown. 

I think Skiles could survive it and even endorse it. I could be way off base but that wouldn't be a first. Besides, maybe a change of scenery is all it would take for AI, like it did for Curry Chandler, J.R. Smith, Crawford. :biggrin:


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

Honestly I couldn't see him coming here and messing up our team chemistry. The only thing we offer them is ben,p.j mike sweet's,and maybe that knick's pick(but i would never trade that in this year's draft) not sure if the salary's match,but remember they would have too.Also not sure with A.I now could we then afford ext for deng,and noc,and maybe duhon.And i not sure if it's cheaper to keep Ben and let sweet's,and p.j and then give ben,deng,noc and duhon,ext.Or even if that would be the same thing.Still i really couldn't see Skiles wanted A.I at all.Unless they all 3 talk and A.I could change his game to a playmaker at times and scorer when needed,instead alway shot shot shot.Because deng,and noc are going to need thier touchs.Not really BW,or kirk or duhon.Pax should though at least listen to the 6ers though.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

badfish said:


> Just curious. What type of roster would that be? My opinion is that our roster might be that type of roster. More so, than say, Boston's roster.


Whatever he had in Philadelphia the year that team went to the Finals. IIRC, it was Snow, Lynch, Tyrone Hill, Mutombo and McKie as the 6th man. For the most part, their job was to look for Iverson and play solid defense.

I suppose we can ask our players to transform their game into something similar but that's really minimizing their talents. Secondly, we would have to go through another adjustment period on offense to accomodate Iverson's game. I think this is a better team without Iverson, despite his ability.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Do you think there is any player who could lead us to the promise land that would allow our team to continue to play with a "college" philosophy on offense? Is a guy who defers to his teammates truly a superstar that can win you the game when its on the line? 

I'm just wondering, how many star players would be able to play in our system.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

Again there is 00000000000 chance of getting iverson. so stop w the "trade ideas".


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

theanimal23 said:


> Do you think there is any player who could lead us to the promise land that would allow our team to continue to play with a "college" philosophy on offense? Is a guy who defers to his teammates truly a superstar that can win you the game when its on the line?
> 
> I'm just wondering, how many star players would be able to play in our system.


There's a difference between what our offense is right now, what it would be with another star player, and what it would look like with Iverson. He dominates the ball more than any other player in the league.

Gasol, Duncan, Garnett, Ray Allen, Lebron, and Yao would be perfect for this offense.

We would need to adjust for players like Wade, Vince, or Pierce.

Then there's Iverson.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Frankensteiner said:


> There's a difference between what our offense is right now, what it would be with another star player, and what it would look like with Iverson. He dominates the ball more than any other player in the league.
> 
> Gasol, Duncan, Garnett, Ray Allen, Lebron, and Yao would be perfect for this offense.
> 
> ...


I agree with your statement. But I look at it this way:

Who could be available, and is not a definite 100% untouchable: Iverson, KG, maybe Gasol and Allen.

I don't see KG winning a championship. He prefers to play with a guard who likes to dominate the ball. I could see us doing well if we keep BG7 with KG, since we would have a guy who could finish games. But, we would have to give up the entire team to land KG due to matching contracts.

Gasol on the block? It's possible, but I doubt new ownership will want to get rid of him immediately. They would lose a lot of marketing.

Allen is a guy who would fit this team and style, but I don't think he is a guy who can take you to the next level. 

AI has deferred from shooting in all-star games and the Olympics. While we are not as talented as those teams, we would be the best team he has ever played on talent-wise. I can see him trusting his teammates more, knowing we were a solid team before he got there.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

theanimal23 said:


> I agree with your statement. But I look at it this way:
> 
> Who could be available, and is not a definite 100% untouchable: Iverson, KG, maybe Gasol and Allen.


Why must we make a trade for any player? At this point, this team might be better off with the current roster than giving up multiple players for one star.

And in the long run, a core of Hinrich, Sef, Gordon, Deng, Noc, Thomas, and next year's 1st rounder (i.e. a replacement for Wallace) looks very promising.


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## badfish (Feb 4, 2003)

Frankensteiner said:


> Why must we make a trade for any player? At this point, this team might be better off with the current roster than giving up multiple players for one star.
> 
> And in the long run, a core of Hinrich, Sef, Gordon, Deng, Noc, Thomas, and next year's 1st rounder (i.e. a replacement for Wallace) looks very promising.


For me, the whole issue revolves around who we would have to give up to get AI. I think the only core piece I would be comfortable giving up would be Gordon. For Gordon, Duhon, PJ and Sweets, I think I do the deal. More than that, I don't think I could pull the trigger.

For Gasol or Pierce, I would give up two of gordon, deng, noce, thomas and next year's pick. No more than that.

For Garnett, I would likely give up 3 pieces, but it would hurt and I would seriously have to think about it.

I want no part of Randolph , Allen or JO.

I agree that there is no sense in giving up the farm for AI. It only makes sense to me if we can get a dimes on the dollar type deal. I like our team as presently constituted but I don't think we have enough to win it all unless we get lucky with next year's draft pick.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Samael said:


> San Antonio Express-News -


:clap:

This means we'd be getting him at even more of a bargain. He demands a trade. Trade value immediately becomes less than if he hadn't. Now he mentions Bulls or Celtics. Drops our competition to one team. You can bet the Sixers would do their best to accomodate him, and other teams would be leery of trading for a guy who might not even want to be there. 

I think back to when Baron Davis was had for Dale Davis & Speedy Claxton and I'm hoping Pax can get in on a deal like that one. PJ + Gordon would be perfect!


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

For those who think having AI on this team would stunt the growth of the other players... I feel the complete opposite. Our roster as it stands right now would be the perfect complement to AI's game, IMO. 

Our best scorer currently is Deng, and what makes him so good is how he scores his points in the flow of the game, without having to resort to one on one play (which he's not very good at anyway). Gordon is the closest thing we have to a true one on one player, and he'd most likely be sent back in any deal for AI anyway. 

Deng is at best a second option on a championship team. You don't expect to give him the ball in crunch time and have him create offense. Noc is proving lethal from the perimeter at PF, and I expect him to get even more open shots playing next to AI. Look how many wide open looks Korver gets. Hinrich gets to play more off the ball, which I think can be a good thing. Duhon is like Eric Snow, and we all remember how good Snow was playing next to AI. Wallace / Tyrus is like Mutombo / Tyrone Hill, except way more athletic. 

I've been saying all along that we'd be a more talented, athletic, and deeper version of that 2001 Sixers team. And there is no dominant Lakers team to compete with this year or next. This would be a great "win now" deal without having to gut the team's core or relinquish the coveted Knicks pick.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> And??????


Well Skiles said he has no problem with AI and admires him for playing so long in the league and he does it with broken bones and other injuries. Then Skiles spouted out his statistics and how he's averaging over 7 assists per game and shooting almost 90% from the ft line while geting to the line on a consistent basis.

Then he spoke about all the baggage he has and how he's been able to play through it all though Skiles doesn't absolve him of everything because some of it was his own doing.

I don't think Skiles would mind coaching AI but I see nothing but bad things that that would come from it. 

Then Skiles talked about team rules and how the Bulls just only has a few of them, headband, and not being late for meetings, practice and team bus. If the bus is supposed to leave at 3:15, then it leaves right on the dot, and it will leave anyone, Skiles included. The only person who is allowed to be late for the bus is Red Kerr.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> I don't buy the idea of maximizing the Wallace signing. That's a sunk cost and considering it as anything but is bad business.
> 
> The Bulls should move forward and do what they expect will be best for the team in the short and long run.


Right, but given Wallace's age and his contract, it would make sense to maximize his effectiveness now. Anticipating a Ben Wallace decline and his four year contract is also "smart business." If adding Iverson to this roster for Ben Gordon greatly increases our chances to win the NBA Title this season, more so than any discounted "win later" projections, then you have to consider it.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

Get the U Haul Vans out 

Allen Iverson and Steven Hunter to Phoenix 

Chris Webber to the Kings 

Leandrinho Barbosa , Marcus Banks , Jalen Rose ,Eric Piatowski, Pat Burke, Corliss Williamson, Vitalty Potapenko, PJ Brown , Kenny Thomas to the Sixers 

Kurt Thomas and Viktor Khyrapa to Seattle 

Danny Fortson and Nick Collison to Chicago 

*Phoenix 

Stoudamire
Marion 
Diaw
Iverson
Nash 

bench

Hunter
Marks
Jumaine Jones
James Jones
Bell

*

Why ?

The unselfishness of Nash, Diaw and Marion with that breakneck fast pace would suit AI to a T and would make the Suns prohibitive favourites to win it all without giving up too much 


*Sacramento 

Miller 
Rahim 
Artest
Martin
Bibby

bench

Webber
Taylor
Monya
Salmons
Douby

Garcia
Hart

*

Bring C Webb back to where he had his most success. He's certainly an upgrade over Williamson and Thomas and they pay the same amount of money to Webber for the rest of this season and next that they would be paying to Kenny Thomas for the next 5 years. Webber gives them a legit scoring presence from the bench


*Seattle

Petro
Wilcox
Lewis
Allen
Ridnour

bench

Thomas
Khyrapa
Gelable 
Wilkins
Watson

Sene - project

*

This balances them up more and gives more of a positive veteran presence with Kurt Thomas who can toughen up their interior defense better and bring them a better scoring option upfront than Danny Fortson

*Chicago

Wallace 
Nocioni
Deng
Hinrich
Duhon

bench

Sweetney
Collison
Thomas
Gordon
Sefolosha

Andruskevicius
Griffin
Barrett

*

We would likely waive Fortson which means the net effect of our involvement would be to move PJ Brown to Philadelphia for fill which would see us getting Nick Collison in return who is younger , a tough defender and a guy who can score/play some in the post - and who would be a PaxSkiles kind of guy

Don't forget ..we're building around Kirk

*Philadelphia

Dalembert
Brown
Thomas
Igoudala
Barbosa

bench

Williamson
Korver
Carney
Green
Banks

Potapenko
Randolph
Rose
Piatowski
Ollie

Cuts: Pat Burke, Alan Hendersen, Louis Williams and Bobby Jones

*

This is a significant deal for the Sixers as they would be left with the following players next season 

Sam Dalembert
Kenny Thomas
Kyle Korver
Andre Igoudala
Rodney Carney
Willie Green
Barbosa
Kevin Ollie 

for around $34M in player salaries

You then have to add the last year of Aaron McKie's contract that is on the books for $7M and they are committed at $41M for 8 players 

They would be almost guaranteed a top 5 pick in the draft to get their ( hopeful ) franchise big man to pair with Dalembert upfront 

Assume you extend Barbosa at around $5M and your $50M for 10 players - and they round out the roster with vet minimum / role player types

The following season when Ollie and McKie's contracts are off the books and another likely high lottery pick - they are 9 players in a young core for around $39M and maybe around $8M in cap space 

Dalembert
Durant ( say )
Carney
Igoudala
Barbosa

Kenny Thomas
Korver
Green
2008 lottery pick

Good rebuilding program


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

LOL at Webber to the Kings. It's like they're going back and doing the trade over again. 

He is HATED here in Sacramento. 

Original trade was Webber for Corliss, Thomas, & Skinner. The Kings later dumped Skinner for Potapenko because he has a shorter contract. 

Thomas > Webber, right now. Yes I'm serious. 

Corliss is a pro. Probably the most respected guy in that locker room. Never complains at all about playing time. He's like their version of PJ Brown/Adrian Griffin. 

Webber is DONE. I have never seen him as worse as he looked the other night against the Bulls. Zero quickness, PJ Brown like hops. He's finished.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

According to realgm, A.I. wants to go to Chicago or Boston



> Chicago Or Boston Iverson's Top Choices?
> 9th December, 2006 - 11:54 am
> San Antonio Express-News -
> Mike Monroe of the San Antonio Express-News reports that Allen Iverson told the Sixers he would prefer to be traded to either the Bulls or Celtics.
> ...


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Machinehead said:


> ...Good rebuilding program


I doubt a 4 way trade would go down that involves such scrubs.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

The ROY said:


> According to realgm, A.I. wants to go to Chicago or Boston



Yeegh, I hope Pax doesn't get any ideas.
Stay out of this one..


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## badfish (Feb 4, 2003)

Machinehead.....you are a legend.


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## badfish (Feb 4, 2003)

The ROY said:


> According to realgm, A.I. wants to go to Chicago or Boston


I've seen several versions of this report. The other merely said that Philly reached out to Boston and Chicago, while saying the other two teams were interested. This could mean that Philly has agree to accommodate AI and sought out two teams with a diverse cross-section of assets. Who knows what the real story is.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

I read that John Thompson, AI's coach in GTown, talked with AI and AI told him that he's going to Boston or the Lakers.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

For those who may think BG7 could explode in Philly, I think he can and will if a trade were to go down. He would have the freedom there. However, that isn't to say we shouldn't get rid of him. I don't see him having those stats here b/c Skiles would not allow the freedom that BG7 would get elsewhere.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

theanimal23 said:


> I doubt a 4 way trade would go down that involves such scrubs.


I doubt it too

But its always fun to get crazy with a 4 way

Improbable basketball trades too


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

I really wanna see him in Chicago. Something involving Gordon, PJ Brown, and picks could/should get it done. But like everyone else said, AI and Skiles would be a nightmare. I'm all for dumping Skiles and bringing in Larry Brown to coach, but you know that's not going to happen.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Machinehead said:


> I doubt it too
> 
> But its always fun to get crazy with a 4 way
> 
> Improbable basketball trades too


:clap2:


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

SALO said:


> LOL at Webber to the Kings. It's like they're going back and doing the trade over again.
> 
> He is HATED here in Sacramento.
> 
> ...


Yeah I know ..but hey a prodigal son is a story ..even if he is a prodigal son of the red headed step child variety

Point is Webber gives more size that Kenny hasn't got anything of and your out with Webber after another 12 months as opposed to Kenny for 5 more years

It actually saves the Kings a bit of money and balances them up a bit better - plus the previous regime is gone and its a whole new ball game in Sacto now as I understand it


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

[ Delete Please ]


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eGDBR2L5kzI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eGDBR2L5kzI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

:biggrin:


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

The ROY said:


> According to realgm, A.I. wants to go to Chicago or Boston


san antonio doesnt know what there talking about. there from texas just like a certain someone....


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I think that Chicago should be involved (in a minor part) with an Iverson to Minnesota trade idea...

My Iverson to Minnesota trade idea (in December 15):

Minny send Hudson and Foye to Philadelphia; Jaric to Lakers and Eddie Griffin to Chicago;
Philadelphia send AI, Alan Henderson and Louis Williams to Minnesota, Bobby Jones to Chicago;
Chicago send Mike Sweetney to Philadelphia and Viktor Khryapa to Lakers;
Lakers send Vladimir Radmanovic to Philadelphia and Sasha Vujacic to Minnesota;


Minnesota get AI (no need to explain about him), Alan Henderson as another backup PF, a cheap scoring PG in Louis Williams to get the garbage part of Hudson minutes (knowing that Mike James PT may decrease also) and in Sasha Vujacic a poor man version of Jaric;

Philadelphia get Hudson and Foye to revampe their backcourt, while getting a nice rebounder in Sweetney, and a good shooter in Vladi Radman;

Chicago add a shotblocker that can backup both PF and C in Griffin that will earn some minutes and is better than Malik Allen; And also get rid of Khryapa, who was complaining about lack of PT. Bobby Jones is just a filler (roster spots talking)

Lakers add a combo guard in Jaric that can earn some minutes in that rotation; Khryapa is also a combo forward, will also get some use there, especially playing some PF.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

El Chapu said:


> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eGDBR2L5kzI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eGDBR2L5kzI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> :biggrin:


That's my boy right there . right there


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

badfish said:


> My read on Skiles is that he abhors the type of player that doesn't get after in practice and the offseason *because* that usually translates to the games. Rose, Curry, Chandler, and even Crawford have all had issues with gametime lapses. Days when they just didn't bring it for whatever reason. Tim Thomas had a history of that so he nipped that one in the bud.
> 
> Iverson has always struck me as a player who always "brung it" for the games. I don't remember a time in his career where he just coasted, even during those times when he had issues with Larry Brown.


Man, who are you kidding ?

Effort's not really the problem. Skiles is tussling already with a guy who lives in the weight room.

Skiles has had little squabbles with every player considered talented not named Hinrich and Nocioni.

On the general flow of the topic: Adding AI would be fun --- he's a favorite of mine, but unless you find a way to avoid giving up Gordon, it won't take this team any closer to a championship.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

How is Gordon a guy who makes or breaks a championship contending season? He can't even start on his own team, and is as one-dimensional as they come. If losing Gordon is someone's primary reason why they would not want AI, I have to wonder why. I can understand not willing to give up two core players, but the reluctance of giving up one, whose role is replaced by AI, who we hope Gordon would score like, is confusing. 

Just curious, do you think Gordon will break out and become a prolific scorer in his career? Do you think he will be a consistant scorer? AI is the 3rd leading scorer (PPG) of all time. 

My feeling is, this won't be an issue, as Pax and Skiles will stay conservative, as always. Internal growth will only take us so far. We'll turn into Memphis East and not make it anywhere, until our organization grows some balls. While I did not like Krause trading Brand, the guy was a risk taker. Risks don't always pay off, but in a situation like this, it is something we should contemplate. Typically stars are sold for 10 cents on the dollar. Look at the Vince Carter and Baron Davis deals. If we can manage a deal like this, it would be insane to not do it. AI or BG7? Future hall of famer, or a guy who struggles to start for a team already lacking offense? Pax, err, Skiles, its your choice.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If the Bulls get AI they could win the title this year. He solves the scoring problem they have in the half court, and he's better defensively than Ben Gordon. In many ways it would resemble the team AI took to the finals, on steroids.

That Skiles couldn't coach that, says to me that he shouldn't be the coach.

If Phil Jackson were the coach, you would do this deal without a second thought.

If the Bulls don't make this deal, they could live to regret it. This is the type of deal that is the difference between a champion and not a champion.

Does Paxson have the hutzpah to do what needs to be done?


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Maybe Pax and Skiles like players who work hard and are not naturally talented and skilled who. These guys were role players and want a team of role players who overacheive. They probably resent stars as it came easy for them. 

We have gotten rid of the losing culture, and everyone is a Pax/Skiles guy. Why are we treating this like it is the Eddie Robinson era? And I don't want to continue to wait for internal growth. By the end of this year we will have an extremely good idea of everyone's ceiling. Kirk's game hasn't elevated too much. BG7's, who the hell knows what it is. It's Jekyl and Hyde. Duhon, average PG. Noce and Deng are by far our best players and the only ones who have shown steady improvement each year. 

Our organization doesn't have the cajones to make a move like this. You can swear if Minny had the flexiblity (what the Sixers would want), AI would be on a flight right now. 

Sure we got Wallace, but he is a hardworker. Our management is extremely conservative, and Skiles is a dictator. Maybe this is why he has never coexisted with a star player.

I applaud Pax. I truly became a believer in him as time has passed by, but I do think he lacks the guts to take that one last step to put our team over the top. Opportunties like this don't come that often.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

theanimal23 said:


> *How is Gordon a guy who makes or breaks a championship contending season?* He can't even start on his own team, and is as one-dimensional as they come. If losing Gordon is someone's primary reason why they would not want AI, I have to wonder why. I can understand not willing to give up two core players, but the reluctance of giving up one, whose role is replaced by AI, who we hope Gordon would score like, is confusing.
> 
> Just curious, do you think Gordon will break out and become a prolific scorer in his career? Do you think he will be a consistant scorer? AI is the 3rd leading scorer (PPG) of all time.
> 
> My feeling is, this won't be an issue, as Pax and Skiles will stay conservative, as always. Internal growth will only take us so far. We'll turn into Memphis East and not make it anywhere, until our organization grows some balls. While I did not like Krause trading Brand, the guy was a risk taker. Risks don't always pay off, but in a situation like this, it is something we should contemplate. Typically stars are sold for 10 cents on the dollar. Look at the Vince Carter and Baron Davis deals. If we can manage a deal like this, it would be insane to not do it. AI or BG7? Future hall of famer, or a guy who struggles to start for a team already lacking offense? Pax, err, Skiles, its your choice.


BG for all that flack he got early on is still our 2nd leading scorer and playing LESS than 30 minutes a game. He's still got the streaking ability to score 17 points in 4 minutes and most importantly clutch --- you know the kind of stuff that might be important during the playoffs. Little things like that make a big difference between a mediocre playoff squad and a championship team.

One dimensional, inconsistent are labels thrown around when people don't really understand what's actually going on. I know it's just basketball, but it is what some would call "intellectually dishonest." I understand that he doesn't put up scoring numbers consistently (I never argue that) if that's what you're referring to as inconsistent, but I also understand that there are reasons behind that and not just superficially because his shot is not falling and he's having a bad day. 

We pretty much win when he's actually getting the ball (and not 1 out of every 4-5 trips), and streaking, which you can't really say about other players, even other superstars. He puts this team over the top.

I think Skiles doesn't really do to much to help him streak, especially when he has Duhon or someone else to throw in when he's trying to get started. 

We do need to make a few moves before we can contend, but trading Ben Gordon for anything less than a player the caliber of Carmelo will just leave us short. AI might be a future hall-of-famer, and one of my favorite players but I don't think he'd carry the team like Ben has, especially if he's micromanaged by Skiles.

It's weird, we both don't like PaxSkiles. If you think PaxSkiles conservatism is holding us back as you imply, what makes you think they (mostly Skiles) are NOT holding back a player like BG ?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Look. It's this simple. Ben Gordon is not as good as Allen Iverson has ever been. Not now. Not ever. They are diffrent classes of player. One is a one dimensional streak shooter. The other is an out and out superstar who on any given night can win you a game almost on his own.

If you watch the playoffs, it's guys like Iverson that get you where you want, not guys like Ben Gordon.

You can gameplan for Gordon and make him irrelevant. You game plan for Iverson he might still drop 55 on you.

The hilarious thing is, I'm sure Skiles and Paxson are not making this deal for the exact same reasons you guys are giving. And it's why the Paxson/Skiles duo will never be more than a good team. I'd be shocked if they ever win any titles.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> BG for all that flack he got early on is still our 2nd leading scorer and playing LESS than 30 minutes a game. He's still got the streaking ability to score 17 points in 4 minutes and most importantly clutch --- you know the kind of stuff that might be important during the playoffs. Little things like that make a big difference between a mediocre playoff squad and a championship team.
> 
> One dimensional, inconsistent are labels thrown around when people don't really understand what's actually going on. I know it's just basketball, but it is what some would call "intellectually dishonest." I understand that he doesn't put up scoring numbers consistently (I never argue that) if that's what you're referring to as inconsistent, but I also understand that there are reasons behind that and not just superficially because his shot is not falling and he's having a bad day.
> 
> ...


I applaud the rebuilding job Pax has done. I think Skiles has been a fine coach to get us back on track. I think we got a solid team, and Skiles has molded players well while they are young (focusing on defense and getting the most out of this team). But I do not see him leading us to a championship. 

My biggest problem with the PaxSkiles regime is two things: 

1. Not taking the risk due to Jib issues. 

I think there has to be a balance. Other than guys like Duncan (and a few others), most star players have baggage. I am not saying we should get ZRandolph, but if a guy gives 110% like AI, it is something that we should not turn away due to 'practice', etc. The whole Jib thing was cute when we had ERob and Rose. Not anymore.

2. Skiles rotations. 

I agree with you here. I do feel that Skiles holds Gordon back. I don't know why. Although I did not post this in the Eddy Curry-Skiles-Sam Smith thread, I do think Skiles resents Gordon for some reason like he did with Eddy. Although he praises Gordon's hard work over the off-season, I do think Skiles has it out for Gordon. Gordon does not get the freedom like Hinrich. You would figure, our best scoring threat would have a little more lee-way to make mistakes. 

While Gordon's inconsistancies irritate me, its what makes us love and hate him. He can put up 17 in a quarter, or put up 17 combined in two games. His lack of attacking the basket is what frustrates the hell out of me. The same for the entire team. I think this is why we cannot get away with being a truly jump shooting team. I would blame this on the players and Skiles. He has not continually encouraged the team to increase our FTA. Especially BG7. 

If we are talking playoffs, how can anyone discount Iverson. The guy steps up on the biggest stages. He may be 'old', but he is still productive. The guy averages 30 pts, 7 asts, 2 stls, and 12 FTAs a game. He would solve all our issues with scoring. We would be the 2001 Sixers on steriods offensively, and at worse, the same level defensively. I think Iverson makes us the front runner in the East, hands down. 

Maybe Gordon could be our solution, but I think his inconsistancies will kill us like it did with Tyson. Don't know what you will get other than a 4th Qtr. 

*I think our success heavily depends on Skiles dictatorship with playing styles and rotations. *I know it frustrates me, and it probably does to you. I would be content with Gordon if he increased his FTAs if his shot did not go down.

But if I had to choose between AI and Gordon, AI everyday. I don't think Gordon will ever be half the player AI is. AI has had that killer instinct since Day 1. He destorys defenses in several ways. He is unselfish if he can trust his teammates. I know its hard to argue that he isn't all that selfish, but I think he would and could trust the guys around him in Chicago. 

From past rumors, I feel that Pax is a guy who might take a risk. I read somewhere that he inquired bout ZBo earlier this year, and he tried for Amare last trade deadline. I see Skiles as the egotistic man who can't handle a superstar's spotlight on a team. AI and Brown might not have had the greatest player-coach relationship, but they did what they needed to, to best their chances of winning. I don't see Skiles doing this. He rather keep his manhood in check and lose.

We would not need to look for a post-scorer with AI. We would increase our chances of getting a decent player for the MLE next year with AI and Wallace on board.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> Look. It's this simple. Ben Gordon is not as good as Allen Iverson has ever been. Not now. Not ever. They are diffrent classes of player. One is a one dimensional streak shooter. The other is an out and out superstar who on any given night can win you a game almost on his own.
> 
> If you watch the playoffs, it's guys like Iverson that get you where you want, not guys like Ben Gordon.
> 
> ...


I actually thought you were referring to Skiles when you said that. If he was on another team, given more free reign, he'd probably be averaging a cool 20.

I don't think they would hesitate to trade Ben Gordon for any of the reasons I brought up. He hits the bench for just about every mistake he makes and plays less than 30 minutes a game --- doesn't sound like we stick to him no matter what like some other players on this squad. Despite that, he's still our 2nd leading scorer.

I agree that PaxSkiles don't make more than a good team.

I'm just saying that Ben Gordon is absolutely the wrong horse to throw away. I'm not even trying to compare Ben Gordon to Allen Iverson, I just don't think we'd get as far as people think, especially if the two-headed monster is still in comission for us.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Am I the only one who feels that Pax defers to Skiles too much in making decisions? Maybe that is the root of the problem.

I agree, Gordon on the Sixers would be given the green light for offense. But his defense might become a bigger issue on a team that does not emphasize it.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

theanimal23 said:


> Am I the only one who feels that Pax defers to Skiles too much in making decisions? Maybe that is the root of the problem.
> 
> I agree, Gordon on the Sixers would be given the green light for offense. But his defense might become a bigger issue on a team that does not emphasize it.


Yeah I'm right there with you. Pax has always struck me as flippant --- from way back in 2003 when he backtracked on a goal to make the playoffs, and to how he went from welcoming Tim Thomas to talking trash about him while he was doing well with the Suns.

And just clarifying, BG doesn't compare to AI right now, and I wasn't trying to. I just think this is the wrong guy to trade. I wish it would be Kirk (apologies to 'Kay and Vega).


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## SianTao (Jul 11, 2005)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> I actually thought you were referring to Skiles when you said that. If he was on another team, given more free reign, he'd probably be averaging a cool 20.


Sure. That team would be headed for the lottery though.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

SianTao said:


> Sure. That team would be headed for the lottery though.


Not if you have a guy who has the ability to score 17 points in 4 minutes or 21 in 6 minutes and actually be THE guy during the clutch. 

Maybe I'm just ignorant to the rest of the league, but I don't know any player who's helped put the finishing touches on amazing comebacks like BG has (and I watched every second of Iverson during the 2001 playoffs). Any team can make a comeback, but I think it takes a special player to actually pull off a win with the comeback. 

It would take a real assclown to say that Ben hasn't done that at all and isn't capable of it on relatively consistent basis.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

todays article in the suntimes says chicago has no interest in A.I.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

The ROY said:


> todays article in the suntimes says chicago has no interest in A.I.


Stunning.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> Stunning.


+1


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Not if you have a guy who has the ability to score 17 points in 4 minutes or 21 in 6 minutes and actually be THE guy during the clutch.
> 
> Maybe I'm just ignorant to the rest of the league, but I don't know any player who's helped put the finishing touches on amazing comebacks like BG has (and I watched every second of Iverson during the 2001 playoffs). Any team can make a comeback, but I think it takes a special player to actually pull off a win with the comeback.
> 
> It would take a real assclown to say that Ben hasn't done that at all and isn't capable of it on relatively consistent basis.


But Ben is inconsistent on a relatively consistent basis. Also, if you think Gordon is capable of that, then how would Iverson not be?


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

The problem with most AI trade scenarios is that they end up with the Bulls giving up one or more frontline players -- at the very least PJ Brown. But its lack of length on the frontline, not the backcourt, that will keep the Bulls out of the finals this year, AI or no AI. Giving up PJ and adding AI will only make the short Bulls team even shorter.

Add the fact that most scenarios include next year's 1st round pick and Gordon in an AI trade and you are left with an aging HOF AI filling Gordon's role on a team that has a dwarf frontcourt and no hope of getting any bigger. The team could be called the Munchkinland Calfs.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

McBulls said:


> The problem with most AI trade scenarios is that they end up with the Bulls giving up one or more frontline players -- at the very least PJ Brown. But its lack of length on the frontline, not the backcourt, that will keep the Bulls out of the finals this year, AI or no AI. Giving up PJ and adding AI will only make the short Bulls team even shorter.


We're better off when PJ gets a DNP - coach's decision, IMO. Losing him in the trade is no big deal. Allen, Tyrus, or Sweets help us more on the court than PJ does. We could also try to get a big man in return from Philly, someone like Shavlik Randolph whom I've always liked. 

Replacing Gordon with Iverson is the key. This is not like replacing Chandler with Wallace, where the impact so far seems minimal. Iverson is so much better than Gordon and his lack of height wouldn't hurt us anymore than it does now... meaning opposing SG's easily shoot over Gordon as it is. At least Iverson would foul out the guys guarding him.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

Ok stop w the "how iverson can be on the bulls". hes never ever going here and will not.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

The reason AI won't be in Chicago - He wears a headband.

No Iverson in Chi-town. Case closed.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I have mixed feelings on the issue. Assuming the trade would be Lil Ben, Duhon, PJ, etc, I think it'd give us a better win now scenario. BUT, I have a hard time trading a 23 year old for a 31 year old who has always taken a beating and had a LOT of injuries. We have to remember that Ben is ONLY 23. 

Now, on the other hand, Iverson is a consistent scorer, and a vastly vastly vastly superior player to Gordon in every aspect. I personally think he'd be a perfect fit with Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni and Wallace in the starting rotation, as they're all just guys who Iverson could hit on the wing after he drives, and Wallace could have fun rebounding all the time and not having to worry at all about scoring (which he sucks at majorly). 

I also agree that if Skiles is going to be a problem with every player who doesn't fit his "mold" to perfection, then he's not the guy for the job. I've always been an Iverson fan, even though he fits every stereotype that I don't care for..basically the thug image, and it was his former mentality. The fire Skils and bring Brown and Iverson in scenario is actually a pretty good one, as it might get Wallace to produce better too. 

In the end though, I've never been one for huge changes and trading away our young core, so basically I think I'd be willing to give up Gordon and filler for Iverson, but that's it. No other core players, or 1st round picks. We need consistent scoring and FT attempts, and Iverson is exactly that and then some. Problem is simply his age and mileage...and of course Skiles.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

McGraw looks at where Iverson might end up, and for who:



> To Boston for Theo Ratliff, Brian Scalabrine, Al Jefferson and Delonte West.
> 
> Either of the Celtics’ other young point guards, Sebastian Telfair or Rajon Rondo, probably could replace West if the Sixers’ desired.
> 
> ...


What does future hold for Iverson, Garnett?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If the Pacers get AI, they are right back in the thick of it in the Central.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Only one of those deals (Indiana) looks actually good for Philly.

If the Memphis deal is one Philly would take, there's no excuse for us not to top it.

Amazing how everyone's offering the proverbial sack of peanuts for the guy.​


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I think Paxson should jump this deal. If we are the Pistons of 2003, this is our Rasheed Wallace. Wallace was a cancer and nobody wanted him, but Joe Dumars saw a need in the frontcourt, and that was the last piece of the puzzle. 

Iverson is a scorer, and even though he dominates the ball, I think letting him do his thing instantly makes the Bulls a much better offensive team. The one team Iverson took to the finals was a very good defensive team (because of DPOY Mutombo). The Iverson offense is not going to get your team anywhere if you have an average defense, but with a stellar defense, he can take you pretty far, especially if your current offense is average and inconsistent.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I think Paxson should jump this deal. If we are the Pistons of 2003, this is our Rasheed Wallace. Wallace was a cancer and nobody wanted him, but Joe Dumars saw a need in the frontcourt, and that was the last piece of the puzzle.
> 
> Iverson is a scorer, and even though he dominates the ball, I think letting him do his thing instantly makes the Bulls a much better offensive team. The one team Iverson took to the finals was a very good defensive team (because of DPOY Mutombo). The Iverson offense is not going to get your team anywhere if you have an average defense, but with a stellar defense, he can take you pretty far, especially if your current offense is average and inconsistent.


Agreed

I also believe we need to jump on some sort of deal seeing as how NY has a very good chance of having a losing record but still being a playoff team..

Frye & Jefferies are coming back this week...


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

And another thing, does anyone else think that Iverson would be a little more respectful of our team coming in than he was with the Sixers? He played there so long and got nowhere year after year. The Bulls on the other hand, have already built this team concept around hard work and unselfishness. The Bulls without Iverson have won more games in the past few years than the Sixers with Iverson. Iverson would understand that the Bulls don't need him to be a good team. I think he would make an effort to _fit in_ (for as much as his style of play would allow him) with the Bulls, and be respectful of what the Bulls have already built. The worst case would be him trying to tear everything down, but I don't think he would do that.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

McBulls said:


> The team could be called the Munchkinland Calfs.


The Chicago Veal?


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> And another thing, does anyone else think that Iverson would be a little more respectful of our team coming in than he was with the Sixers? He played there so long and got nowhere year after year. The Bulls on the other hand, have already built this team concept around hard work and unselfishness. The Bulls without Iverson have won more games in the past few years than the Sixers with Iverson. Iverson would understand that the Bulls don't need him to be a good team. I think he would make an effort to _fit in_ (for as much as his style of play would allow him) with the Bulls, and be respectful of what the Bulls have already built. The worst case would be him trying to tear everything down, but I don't think he would do that.


I think he would. He would know this is his last shot to truly win a title unless he wanted to ride along Duncan's coattails like Payton did with Shaq.

I think he would be uber-excited to come to a team that posed this potential starting lineup: 

Wallace
Noce
Deng
Iverson
Hinrich

With a bench of Duhon, Thabo/Griffin, Victor, Tyrus, Malik

I'm a little wearing on not getting a big back. But it will definitely speed up Tyrus' maturation process.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I would rather wait for Gasol or KG.


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