# What are the Bucks doing?!



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I am quite puzzled as to what the Bucks want to do with their franchise. 

First off in February 2003 they pull this deal:

TO MILWAUKEE:
Gary Payton
Desmond Mayson

TO SEATTLE:
Ray Allen
Kevin Ollie
Ronald Murray
Future draft pick


Then in June 2003 the Bucks make the following trade:

TO MILWAUKEE:
Joe Smith
Anthony Peeler

TO MINNESOTA:
Sam Cassel
Ervin Johnson


Now who is left from all of this? 

MILWAUKEE GAINED:
Desmond Mason
Joe Smith

MILWAUKEE LOST:
Ray Allen
Kevin Ollie
Ronald Murray
Future draft pick
Sam Cassel
Ervin Johnson

Now I am no rocket scientist but I think that the Bucks made some horrible moves, and this will hurt them greatly.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Saving money... building a good lottery position for next year.

I've checked and the Bucks will have their own first rounder and the Hawks' first rounder unless it's in the top 3.

I still think a lot of what they're doing is stupid, but if they luck themselves into a couple good players in the draft next year and if Ford is better than I expect, they might be ok.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Well its nice they're saving money but they've just gone too far. I have no problem with trading Cassel and Robinson last year, but Ray Allen??!! He was their franchise player, and they went far in the playoffs with him couple of years ago, and I don't see why they had to trade him. Its great that they've added TJ Ford but trading Allen was just wrong. I don't see what young player that they draft can be better than Ray Allen. :upset:


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## tdizzle (Apr 12, 2003)

> I've checked and the Bucks will have their own first rounder and the Hawks' first rounder unless it's in the top 3.


The Bucks received the Hawks first round pick this year. That is why you guys got to pick 8th overall.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> Well its nice they're saving money but they've just gone too far. I have no problem with trading Cassel and Robinson last year, but Ray Allen??!! He was their franchise player, and they went far in the playoffs with him couple of years ago, and I don't see why they had to trade him. Its great that they've added TJ Ford but trading Allen was just wrong. I don't see what young player that they draft can be better than Ray Allen. :upset:


LOL, don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger 

I think the Cassell for Joe Smith trade might be one of the worst of all time. Joe Smith is a dog and his contract is longer than Cassell's anyway.

And Ray Allen... yup, they won't get anyone as good as him.


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## tdizzle (Apr 12, 2003)

> LOL, don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger
> 
> I think the Cassell for Joe Smith trade might be one of the worst of all time. Joe Smith is a dog and his contract is longer than Cassell's anyway.
> 
> And Ray Allen... yup, they won't get anyone as good as him.



Yea, I don't really know why they traded Ray Allen. I mean I know they are in the "re-building" mode, but its not like Ray Allen is old or anything. But I do think getting Desmond Mason will help the Bucks out. Although he will probaly never be as good as Allen I think he will continue to develop as a very good player in this league.

If they hadn't made the trade.

C. = Dan Gadzuric

F. = Marcus Haislip

F. = Tim Thomas

G. = Ray Allen

G. = Michael Redd

Now.

C. = Dan Gadzuric

F. = Marcus Haislip

F. = Desmond Mason

G. = Michael Redd

G. = T.J. Ford

(Now I woldn't be at all suprised to see eather Tim Thomas or Joe Smith start, both are pretty good players, but if they are really trying to re-build I think they should play some of their younger players more minutes.)

Desmond Mason:


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL, don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger
> ...



LOL I won't shoot you LOL

I just dont understand how a GM can be so dumb, geez I wouldn't make that deal on NBA2K3's Franchise mode.. LOL :laugh:


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I'm sorry Bucks fans but this is not a lineup that will be winning a lot of ball games next year.

Jason Caffey
T.J. Ford
Dan Gadzuric
Marcus Haislip
Toni Kukoè
Anthony Mason
Desmond Mason
Joel Przybilla
Michael Redd
Joe Smith
Szymon Szewczyk
Tim Thomas


It's a young team with some veterans such as Kukoè and Mason, but the young guys can develop and it'll be a nice team in a couple of years.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I guess the real question is can Kukoc, Thomas, D. Mason, and Redd be enough to keep them competitive. I guess they could as long as Ford plays ok.


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

Also, you have to remember that after this year ray woulof been gone from the bucks. The they were trading a little over a year of service from Ray Allen and Kevin Ollie, for a few months from Gary Payton, (and there was also a possiblity he woudl of resigned) and Desmond Mason. So, wouldnt you take Mason over Ollie any day. Theyre rebulding, they got the better, younger, player, and a probable high draft pick for next year, nevermind a salary dump to pursue free agents in the near future.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Can't say for sure that Allen would be gone. I like him a lot, but I don't know that anyone would have paid him the kind of salary the Bucks could


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

Yeah they could, but I doubt they would. He and Karl had too many problems, I doubt hed wanna go back, or Karl would want him back.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Another thing, what were they thinking when they traded Keith Bogans for $250K??? He's looking like a real steal, 19.7 ppg in summer league. I know its only summer league, but still....Being a Magic fan, i'm really happy with that deal.:yes: :yes: :yes:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ltrain99</b>!
> Yeah they could, but I doubt they would. He and Karl had too many problems, I doubt hed wanna go back, or Karl would want him back.


Funny how Karl is still the King of the Mountain there after all the crazy crap he's said and done.

I don't get that at all. I know he's making a lot of money and the Bucks would have to eat it to get rid of him, but he's pretty looney.


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Funny how Karl is still the King of the Mountain there after all the crazy crap he's said and done.
> ...


Yeah i know, he cant lead the team to win, nor could he get a long with Allen and they still wanna keep him. Ray is known as 1 of the best guys in the league, and they fought like cats and dogs. There's obviously soemthing wrong with Karl, he cost them their franchise player, and I expect them to be in a current downward spiral, because of an unsuccessful coach.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

I'm a big Ray Allen fan...yet I'm also a big Michael Redd, Desmond Mason and TJ Ford fan. Ohh wait no, I forgot what my name was . I actually think that TJ Ford, Redd, Kukoc, and Mason will do enough to take the Bucks to the playoffs. I'm not a big fan of Thomas (contrary to my name) esp cos of his huge contract, but he's a good players at time. The only thing I dont like about this current lineup is Thomas and Joe Smith's contract. Maybe the lack of Ray Allen, but they have Redd and Mason there to fill up. At least Godzilla Gadzuric's coming along...wonder why Sampson left...stumps the crap outta me.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I have questions will George Karl. He was a great coach until the Bucks gave him the massive contract, then he just went downhill. History shows us that he has had problems with the Olympic Team (mainly Paul Pierce and Jermaine O'Neal). He also has issues with Glenn Robinson (who got traded to Atlanta), Ray Allen (traded to Seattle), and Sam Cassell (traded to Minnesota). I think he's getting a bad image. Lets just hope for all Buck's fans sake that he doesn't have any problems with the current lineup, because the problems just seem to spread.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Just curious, who's gonna be TJ Ford's backup?? He's the Bucks only true PG on the roster. I hope the Bucks don't expect him to shine right away cus he prolly won't. TJ will hold his own, but he's only a rookie. He's gonna need another PG right along with him.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Well the Bucks have plenty of cap space and should be making a run later in the summer for a young gun point guard such as Speedy Claxton or Tryonn Lue.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>WhoDaBest23</b>!
> Just curious, who's gonna be TJ Ford's backup?? He's the Bucks only true PG on the roster. I hope the Bucks don't expect him to shine right away cus he prolly won't. TJ will hold his own, but he's only a rookie. He's gonna need another PG right along with him.


Yeah, the Bucks went after Ollie, but didnt get him. They, AFAIK, dont have a signed backup. Lue and Speedy might be kinda costly and are attracting attention from other teams...so I doub they'll sign with the Bucks


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## #1BucksFan (Apr 14, 2003)

They won't sign anybody else. Their Cap room for next offseason is among the most in the NBA.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Maybe they're freeing up room for current players like Kukoc and Mason.

Smith's not a dog if he's healthy. He has some intangibles like he's a friendly guy, hard worker, etc. I'm interested to see him in the East.

New big three?

Ford
Mason
Draft pick unless Smith turns out good

Some good drivers to the basket, along with good shooters like Redd, Kukoc, and Thomas. And no luxury tax.


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

I personally am a fan of what the Bucks have been doing, and there's reasons behind these trades. What Coach Karl is attempting to do is what I will call the "Karl-ification" of the team. What I mean by that is that his main goal is to build a defensively strong basketball team.

Trade 1:
Gary Payton and Desmond Mason for Ray Allen, Ronald Murray, and Kevin Ollie

This trade, although criticized by most of you, makes sense. Essentially, this was a player with less talent, but will fit in for a player that has more talent, but wont fit in. Why wouldn't Allen fit in? Because as good as Allen is, he just isn't the player that Karl is looking for to be his franchise player. I'm not saying Desmond Mason is, but he's actually closer.

Also, "One of the reasons the Bucks obtained Payton for Ray Allen in the midseason trade with Seattle was that Grunfeld was under orders to trim the team's payroll before the trade deadline. Payton made $12.6 million last season and would receive a pay raise should he decide to re-sign with the Bucks. But should he go elsewhere, his salary would be off Milwaukee's books."

Trade 2:
Joe Smith and Anthony Peeler for Sam Cassell and Ervin Johnson

Another trade being criticized by most, yet is a smart move. Getting rid of Cassell stops any controversy of who is the PG in Milwaukee, and Ervin Johnson hasn't done anything significant in years. Getting Smith will give the Bucks a big PF to let Haislip develop. Sure, Smith doesn't really fit in too well in Milwaukee, not being too good a defender himself, but the complete lack of a big PF makes him valuable. Peeler's contract will end after this upcoming season, thus cutting salary.

So, for this upcoming season, they have improved their defense and secured positions and minutes for their future stars. A look into the new lineup:

C: Joel Przybilla 7'1"
PF: Joe Smith 6'10"
SF: Tim Thomas 6'10"
SG: Desmond Mason 6'5"
PG: TJ Ford 6'0"

Also, a few of you have mentioned Dan Gadzuric's name, saying that he's going to be the starter. I doubt that he will get there as long as Przybilla isn't injured. Why? Gadzuric's defense is a work in progress, while Przybilla is an excellent defender. So even though Przybilla will rarely score, something that Gadzuric can do better, you can depend on him to play very good defense. Also, this is Przybilla's final year of his contract, so he's going to do all he can.

This team may not score all that much, but it definatly will make it hard for the other team to score their points. Lottery bound? Probably. On the right track? Yes. Idealy, in the next draft, they'll be able to select Kosta Perovic.

Also, another person mentioned a new big three, and left out Haislip. IMO Haislip could develop into being a very good power forward averaging double double numbers. But I disagree that the Bucks will have a "Big Three", and rather a more team based game plan that uses all of their players instead of focusing on getting the ball to the 3 scorers (which is why the switch from Cassell to Ford is a very good one.)


Source for the quote about Payton trade:
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/basketball/nba/6188701.htm


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

I think Redd might start and Mason excel in his 6th man role. Dont forget Anthony Mason...either way, gadzuric and hasilip have big time potential at the c and pf spots.


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