# Sorry Devin, you were wrong



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

> “It’s tough because they kind of play differently than I do,” Harris said when asked recently to measure his game against some of the league’s top point guards, such as Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Kidd. “They’re getting 15, 16 assists some games. I dream about getting 15 assists. It’s just not possible with the team I’m on.”


Kidd has done it in two of his three games already, I don't care if it were the Grizzlies and Wolves or not because Devin has never done that. It's hard to believe that this could be a coincidence after all.

It also gives Dirk an opportunity to focus on what he does best, scoring and not passing. He is very effective off the ball, the passer that Kidd is frees up him and I think the shooters got a confidence boost ever since the trade.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

croco said:


> ...I think the shooters got a confidence boost ever since the trade.


Exactly. The fact that Dirk and others are enjoying themselves (Dirk said after last night's game that "It's fun") is a direct indictment against the former point guard. It was not only possible, but it was what his former teammates - and dare I say former coach? - was wanting from him all along!

I guess you've either got it, or you don't. :whistling:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

You can't learn basketball IQ or court vision....

Like xray said, "you've either got it, or you don't."

On the other hand, I am kind of hoping Devin starts playing with a chip on his shoulder and take the next step to become a Paul or Nash. The kid is just too likable....


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I wish him the best, but realistically he will never reach that level. Kidd is growing on me, I think I underestimated that his presence will make him and his new teammates play harder and they have fun doing that. They need to capitalize on the energy boost as much as they can.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

I'm assuming that you guys don't remember his first stint through here - if only he had half the talent around him we have now - I never will forget his AS start (the first in Maverick history) and he had the crowd in the palm of his hand. :eek8:


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Devin was always a shooting guard/scorer coming up... not necessarily a natural point guard. He plays there because of his height and defensive capabilities, but he's never going to be Jason Kidd.

Jason Kidd is just a different kind of player... in fact, there's nobody else in the league like Jason Kidd. Devin just offers a different package.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Dornado said:


> Devin just offers a different package.


And I think we're all curious how he will develop in the Net's system. Meanwhile, the Mavs' fans are thinking we know how the Suns feel now!! :yay:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> And I think we're all curious how he will develop in the Net's system. Meanwhile, the Mavs' fans are thinking we know how the Suns feel now!! :yay:


I still don't know how the Suns feel...

Avery Johnson still hasn't backed off playing defense, which is encouraging. I know the sampling size is quite small right now, but our defense hasn't been giving up too much (except for CP3 catching fire).

To add that improved offense (I can only hope they'll continue to improve and gel), I think this Dallas team will be very exciting to watch come playoff time.


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## BDB (Dec 19, 2006)

Devin replaced Steve Nash who went on to win 2 MVP's and now he gets traded for a HOF point guard.

He hasn't played for us yet from what I hear he's a great defender and very fast. Haven't heard enough positives about his passing.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

BDB said:


> Devin replaced Steve Nash who went on to win 2 MVP's and now he gets traded for a HOF point guard.
> 
> He hasn't played for us yet from what I hear he's a great defender and very fast. Haven't heard enough positives about his passing.


I think Dornado nailed it right on the head. Devin is more a 2 than a 1.

The unfortunate thing is that Dallas had TWO undersized guards at the time in Devin and Terry. Since there is no way Terry can fill the PG position, Devin was forced into the spot.

None of us have any doubts about Devin's speed, defense, and slashing abilities. In fact, his jump shots have greatly improved through the years, and he may become a Tony Parker type guard in the long run.

It was simply an issue of Dallas needing a different skill set to jumpstart the team.


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## Ninjatune (May 1, 2006)

Anyone else looking forward to Thursday's game vs SA as a good measuring stick?


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Ninjatune said:


> Anyone else looking forward to Thursday's game vs SA as a good measuring stick?


I am a little concerned about the match-up of our front court on defense.

Damp WILL get in foul trouble against Duncan, and Bass is way undersized. If Dirk is put on Duncan, we're in for a long night.

As for offense, I am not too worried.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> The unfortunate thing is that Dallas had TWO undersized guards at the time in Devin and Terry. Since there is no way Terry can fill the PG position, Devin was forced into the spot.


It's hard for tweeners who slide between the 1 and 2, much more than guys who fall between the 2 and 3. You've really got to be an Iverson type (or shoot like Terry) to make it if you don't have good passing skills.

His time with the Nets should tell us what skills he has.


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## BDB (Dec 19, 2006)

edwardcyh said:


> I think Dornado nailed it right on the head. Devin is more a 2 than a 1.
> 
> The unfortunate thing is that Dallas had TWO undersized guards at the time in Devin and Terry. Since there is no way Terry can fill the PG position, Devin was forced into the spot.
> 
> ...


Sounds good the Nets don't need Kidd's passing as much as it seemed.

I haven't got a chance to watch Kidd since the trade seems the Dallas roster needs a pure point guard more.

Wasn't Harris a point guard in college?


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## nets1fan102290 (Apr 16, 2007)

croco said:


> Kidd has done it in two of his three games already, I don't care if it were the Grizzlies and Wolves or not because Devin has never done that. It's hard to believe that this could be a coincidence after all.
> 
> It also gives Dirk an opportunity to focus on what he does best, scoring and not passing. He is very effective off the ball, the passer that Kidd is frees up him and I think the shooters got a confidence boost ever since the trade.


yo i dont think devin was wrong because after watching the first game that kidd was playing it looked like he didnt get the ball in his hands enough and the offensive flow was different but the last two games i think avery lets jason take control more and less off the ball. i think avery is giving j more leeway


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

nets1fan102290 said:


> i think avery is giving j more leeway


He gave Devin control this season, before having to take it back because Devin couldn't run the offense. Management made the decision that he wasn't going to develop like they needed him to, and decided to go in another direction.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I never saw Devin as a guy who could ever crack 15 assists regardless of the system. Kidd on the other hand was born to do that


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

nets1fan102290 said:


> yo i dont think devin was wrong because after watching the first game that kidd was playing it looked like he didnt get the ball in his hands enough and the offensive flow was different but *the last two games i think avery lets jason take control more and less off the ball. i think avery is giving j more leeway*


I think you are definitely correct with that one.

Here is something that nets fans don't know: Avery Johnson, as an experiment, let Harris run this team for 20 games at the beginning of this season. Avery bit his lips and had Westphal hold him down whenever he had the urge to be "himself." After the experiment ended, AJ took back he rein and never looked back.

Harris at least had that much opportunity to run this team however he wished.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Devin said that you can't get 15+ assists in this system, Kidd proved that it is possible. It is already different compared to when he ran the point, but the players make the system for the most part and he was not able to find shooters in their sweet spots constantly, neither are his passing skills at the level of an elite point guard. 

He has brought a lot to this team and I don't want to make him worse than he is, but it is obvious that we were a bit blinded by his shortcomings, Kidd is showing that a point guard can get a lot of assists without dominating the ball in this system.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^But thats a bit unfair croco. Only a select few points can do that. Heck I think most points in the league would probably fall in the same category as Devin in not being able to pile up assists like Kidd does


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

when your the point guard on a team with Dirk, Jet, Stack and JHo 4 proven 20 point per game players, how do you not average at least 10 assist a game...how about 8? get each of them 2 a game...Its not like he wasn't getting the assist because he was busy putting up 20 points a game himself and as far as defense goes, didn't Baron Davis just obliterate him last year?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Baron obliterates Kidd everytime they face each other also (*of recent*)


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm not saying he should be averaging 10 assists, but like Dragnsmke said 7 or 8 assists sounds very reasonable on a team loaded with offensive firepower. His 5.3 assists per game is a career high, even on a system where it's harder to pile up a lot of assists he should have been able to get more. 

He is willing to get more assists, but his passing skills aren't good enough to do it, he will have to contribute in other areas to make up for it.


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## BDB (Dec 19, 2006)

xray said:


> He gave Devin control this season, before having to take it back because Devin couldn't run the offense. Management made the decision that he wasn't going to develop like they needed him to, and decided to go in another direction.


I believe Harris' injury had something to do with the trade. 
Dallas lost to the Nets and Philly before the ASG.
After the break Devin said he'd still be out for 10-12 days the Mavs would be out of the playoffs by then.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

HB said:


> Baron obliterates Kidd everytime they face each other also (*of recent*)


thats exactly my point. If Devins"vaunted" defense was so great but he still gets obliterated might as well go with the player who gives you a chance to outscore those teams that are "unstoppable" watching the last 3 games, Im not convinced that Kidds d is that bad though...

How can you not demand somebody on this team to average almost double digit assist? With all these weapons and 3-4 years after playing college ball he should have been way way better. and yes I do mean 10 assist good. Its not like hes (was) playing with scrubs.

hes also had Waker, Jamison and Van Horn. when did we get rid of LeFoulz?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Well I do agree that he should have averaged more assists, but he isn't going to top Kidd in that aspect. Kidd wakes up with 10 assists every day


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

You can't shut down point guards, they are too quick to be contained sometimes. Devin did a good job on most of them because he was able to stay in front of his man, Baron Davis was an exception because he can post up and still has the physical skills to be quick and strong enough to go where he wants to.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

HB said:


> Well I do agree that he should have averaged more assists, but he isn't going to top Kidd in that aspect. Kidd wakes up with 10 assists every day


exactly...if Kidd in his 3rd game in the system is dropping 15 dimes a game, why cant I expect the number 5 pick who's played with the same teammates for 4 years to get 10 a game?


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

croco said:


> You can't shut down point guards, they are too quick to be contained sometimes. Devin did a good job on most of them because he was able to stay in front of his man, Baron Davis was an exception because he can post up and still has the physical skills to be quick and strong enough to go where he wants to.


Ive seen Devin get shut down plenty. the only times he looked good was when he beat the defense on a 1 man play. whats his 3 point shooting average?

For real, somebody tell me whats so special about Devin besides hes a nice guy? I can name at least 15 point guards I would want on my team before Devin.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I could also name 9 or 10, but 15 is a bit of a stretch. He played very mistake free this year, shot a high percentage and showed signs of maturity. 

Let's wait some games before we crown Kidd just yet, if he can keep that up it is very impressive though. His PER is five points higher than it was in New Jersey, that is not saying much after three games, but hopefully it's a sign of good things to come.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

BDB said:


> I believe Harris' injury had something to do with the trade.
> Dallas lost to the Nets and Philly before the ASG.
> After the break Devin said he'd still be out for 10-12 days the Mavs would be out of the playoffs by then.


I couldn't disagree with this post more if I tried with everything I had while I was on steroids.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

croco said:


> I could also name 9 or 10, but 15 is a bit of a stretch. He played very mistake free this year, shot a high percentage and showed signs of maturity.
> 
> * Let's wait some games before we crown Kidd just yet*, if he can keep that up it is very impressive though. His PER is five points higher than it was in New Jersey, that is not saying much after three games, but hopefully it's a sign of good things to come.


crown him what? except for not winning the whole enchilada hes proven himself already. He should already be crowned!

I went back to double check your stats, for his career Devin is only averaging *3.4 *assist a game


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Good ol' Drag on his beloved Devin.

Shall we move on to Dirk? :lol:


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

edwardcyh said:


> Good ol' Drag on his beloved Devin.
> 
> Shall we move on to Dirk? :lol:


actually now that Dirk isnt our best player I can easily lay off him(for now)


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I don't think the fact that Kidd is better than Harris is much of a surprise. Harris couldn't rack up assists because he just wasn't a capable passer. He could be the best backup point guard in the league one day, but he just can't run a team.


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## number1pick (May 24, 2007)

If after 4 years it hasn't clicked for a PG it won't ever click.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> actually now that Dirk isnt our best player I can easily lay off him(for now)


Are you serious ? :thinking2:

Like I said, you are crowning Kidd too early.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> ...Harris couldn't rack up assists because he just wasn't a capable passer. He could be the best backup point guard in the league one day, but he just can't run a team.


He does kinda resemble Howard Eisley. :raised_ey


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

croco said:


> Are you serious ? :thinking2:
> 
> Like I said, you are crowning Kidd too early.


Im not trying to hate but Im looking at your age and guessing youve never really seen Kidd play before this

*NBA highlights*


*9-time NBA All-Star*: 1996, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008
*6-time All-NBA*:
 <dl><dd> 
*First Team*: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004
*Second Team*: 2003
 </dd></dl> 
*9-time All-Defensive Selection*:
 <dl><dd> 
*First Team* : 1999, 2001, 2002, 2006
*Second Team*: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007
 </dd></dl> 
*NBA co-Rookie of the Year*: 1995 (with Grant Hill)
*NBA All-Rookie First Team*: 1995
5-time NBA regular-season leader, *assists per game*: 1999 (*10.8*), 2000 (*10.1*), 2001 (*9.8*), 2003 (*8.9*), 2004 (*9.2*)
3-time NBA regular-season leader, *total assists*: 1999 (*539*), 2001 (*753*), 2003 (*711*)
NBA regular-season leader, *total steals*: 2002 (*175*)
*NBA All-Star Skills Challenge champion*: 2003
 *NBA milestones*


*In NBA history*:
 <dl><dd> 
ranks *2nd* in playoffs triple-doubles (*11*, as of May 12, 2007)<sup id="_ref-sec_2" class="reference">[2]</sup>
ranks *3rd* in regular season triple-doubles (*99*, as of February 8, 2008)
ranks *4th* in *guard rebounds* (*6,669*, as of January 29, 2008)
ranks *5th* in assist-per-game average (*9.2*, as of January 9, 2008)
ranks *5th* in assists (*9,221*, as of February 19, 2008)
ranks *11th* in steals (*1,976*, as of February 19, 2008)
ranks *12th* in steal-per-game average (*2.02*)
ranks *13th* in 3-pointers made (*1,320*, as of February 19, 2008)
 </dd></dl>


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

About 80% of that has nothing to do with this year. I could put up the Big O's resume, does that mean anything about his ability right now?


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I know what he has accomplished, but he has also never won anything despite all that. When he was with Dallas and Phoenix he wasn't considered a winner, this began when he turned the Nets around and it was in the lowly East. His prime is over and Dirk is clearly the better player right now. 

Kidd lost twice in the Finals, does this make him a choker ? I don't think so.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> About 80% of that has nothing to do with this year. I could put up the Big O's resume, does that mean anything about his ability right now?


But I think we can agree that what he brings is an intangible that the Mavs desperately needed.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Wow... now we have Kidd (lost twice in Final) and Dirk (CHOKED once in Final) on the same team!

What does that make us?


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> But I think we can agree that what he brings is an intangible that the Mavs desperately needed.


+1

Jersey sales that's for sure.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> +1
> 
> Jersey sales that's for sure.


You think Cuban took that under consideration when he swallowed that $17M hit? :angel:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> You think Cuban took that under consideration when he swallowed that $17M hit? :angel:


"Cuban" and "swallow" used in one sentence....


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

number1pick said:


> If after 4 years it hasn't clicked for a PG it won't ever click.


Chauncey Billups averaged 9 points and 3.4 assists in his 4th year.

Gary Payton was at 16 and 6...

Kevin Johnson didn't breakout until his 4th year.

Oh, and that Nash guy averaged 8 and 6 in his 4th year.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> "Cuban" and "swallow" used in one sentence....


Is he just one letter off when he cheers for Dirk? :raised_ey


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> Is he just one letter off when he cheers for Dirk? :raised_ey


LOL... more "old people wisdom" for croco.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

:sadbanana:


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

My point was I didn't crown him, he has earned it.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> My point was I didn't crown him, he has earned it.


Earned to be considered one of the best point guards of all time or earned to be considered the best on this team when you could even make a case for him only being the third best ?


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

croco said:


> Earned to be considered one of the best point guards of all time or earned to be considered the best on this team when you could even make a case for him only being the third best ?


Nash...Harper...Davis, who?


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

xray said:


> Nash...Harper...Davis, who?


Since when are those guys on our team right now ? :thinking2:


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

croco said:


> Since when are those guys on our team right now ? :thinking2:


I got lost in the discussion (alzheimer's) - were you saying he wasn't in the top three on our team *now*? :eek8:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Shimmy is not on our team *now*.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

xray said:


> I got lost in the discussion (alzheimer's) - were you saying he wasn't in the top three on our team *now*? :eek8:


No, I said he is in the top 3, but not Top 1 and maybe not Top 2 because Josh will eventually start playing better again.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

croco said:


> No, I said he is in the top 3, but not Top 1 and maybe not Top 2 because Josh will eventually start playing better again.



Well, if your talking about the most important players on our team, you can't really do that - Kidd is making others around him better. Each one would vote for his fellow man, that's a dangerous *team *.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

Dornado said:


> Chauncey Billups averaged 9 points and 3.4 assists in his 4th year.
> 
> Gary Payton was at 16 and 6...
> 
> ...


LMAO...nice Dornado...I like how none of you responded to his post.

Those who said that AJ gave Devin 20 games to run the point...are you serious? 20 games? After 20 days of work, have you mastered your job? Hilarious...give him a full year at running the offense and let's see where he's at.

In his 4 games thus far, J Kidd is average 8.25 pts, 11 assists, and 4 TO's...the 3 wins have come against 3 of the 6 worst teams in the league.

I think you guys keep forgetting that Harris' scoring ability is greater than Kidd's...Harris averages 14 and 5 a game...6 less assists, but 6 more points.

As for the question regarding if he was a pg in college...he played the 2 in his freshmen year when we had a capable pg...he had to play his next 2 years at the point because we didn't have a capable pg...

he was better as a sg.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

apelman42 said:


> LMAO...nice Dornado...I like how none of you responded to his post.
> 
> Those who said that AJ gave Devin 20 games to run the point...are you serious? 20 games? After 20 days of work, have you mastered your job? Hilarious...give him a full year at running the offense and let's see where he's at.
> 
> ...


None of us replied because we know it's almost pointless to continue.

.... and we'll just leave it at that.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Burp...


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

apelman42 said:


> Those who said that AJ gave Devin 20 games to run the point...are you serious? 20 games? After 20 days of work, have you mastered your job? Hilarious...give him a full year at running the offense and let's see where he's at.


He had several years in this system, not just the 20 games of letting him do it on his own. If you've been an understudy for 3 1/2 years and don't get it, don't blame your boss if you find yourself out the door.



apelman42 said:


> I think you guys keep forgetting that Harris' scoring ability is greater than Kidd's...Harris averages 14 and 5 a game...6 less assists, but 6 more points.


If my math is decent, I see that 6 less assists can result in up to an 18 point differential, as well as isolating your teammates and slowing the game down. But then, those 6 more points may make the final score a little closer. :whistling:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> He had several years in this system, not just the 20 games of letting him do it on his own. If you've been an understudy for 3 1/2 years and don't get it, don't blame your boss if you find yourself out the door.
> 
> 
> 
> If my math is decent, I see that 6 less assists can result in up to an 18 point differential, as well as isolating your teammates and slowing the game down. But then, those 6 more points may make the final score a little closer. :whistling:


xray and his :whistling: .


lol... I decided to change my sig because I finally came to terms with the fact that I am always full of hot air.


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## number1pick (May 24, 2007)

Dornado said:


> Chauncey Billups averaged 9 points and 3.4 assists in his 4th year.
> 
> Gary Payton was at 16 and 6...
> 
> ...


Nash is an odd one. Because in Phoenix and the early Dallas years we saw flashes of what he could do but I believe there were other PG's on the same team as him at those early years. However he has gotten much better with age. Still there were flashes of brilliance from him. In Phoenix he was playing with KJ though, and I know Big D had another PG on the team with him at those early years.

KJ averaged 8.7 assists his first year after being traded to the Suns. Then followed by four straight double digit assists and then I believe averaged 8-9 the next four years, until injuries were too much to overcome and then even those last couple of seasons averaged about 5-6. 

Billups isn't a pure PG, he's a combo guard. He makes great decisions with the ball though and is a very smart passer. 

Payton never averaged more than 8 per season, might be wrong though. I don't think he was the passer that Nash and Kidd are but he was just as smart a player as anyone in the league. He made great passes at times but he wasn't as flashy as those other two, he was just smart with the ball and knew how to execute his offense wherever he went.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

I dont know how many people are just watching the stat box, sportcenter or the whole game. But for anyone able to see the games of late do you think this may be the best team weve ever had in the Dirk era?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

number1pick said:


> Nash is an odd one. *Because in Phoenix and the early Dallas years we saw flashes of what he could do* but I believe there were other PG's on the same team as him at those early years. However he has gotten much better with age. Still there were flashes of brilliance from him. In Phoenix he was playing with KJ though, and I know Big D had another PG on the team with him at those early years.
> 
> KJ averaged 8.7 assists his first year after being traded to the Suns. Then followed by four straight double digit assists and then I believe averaged 8-9 the next four years, until injuries were too much to overcome and then even those last couple of seasons averaged about 5-6.
> 
> ...


- I think Devin has shown flashes of what he's capable of too....

- Billups is as much of a point guard as Devin Harris is... not sure where you're going with that...

- Gary Payton averaged over 8 assists 6 times, which is slightly more than zero...


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> I dont know how many people are just watching the stat box, sportcenter or the whole game. But for anyone able to see the games of late do you think this may be the best team weve ever had in the Dirk era?


We're talking intangibles. The team that went to the WCF and fell 4-1 to the Spurs (Dirk went down in what, Game 2?) had a good mix of scrap, hustle, and Raef LaFrentz...never mind, they could've never gone anywhere. :clown:

Fast forward to the last couple of years, and the maturation of Dirk combined with the fight of Stack and Terry, the youthful exuberance of Josh, Harris and Diop...not them either. :thinking2:

This should be the best combination of talent, experience and hunger - just in time for the greatest convergence of teams at the top of the Western Conference we've seen. This is either going to be really cool or really suck. :sadbanana:


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

xray said:


> We're talking intangibles. The team that went to the WCF and fell 4-1 to the Spurs (Dirk went down in what, Game 2?) had a good mix of scrap, hustle, and Raef LaFrentz...never mind, they could've never gone anywhere. :clown:
> 
> Fast forward to the last couple of years, and the maturation of Dirk combined with the fight of Stack and Terry, the youthful exuberance of Josh, Harris and Diop...not them either. :thinking2:
> 
> This should be the best combination of talent, experience and hunger - just in time for the greatest convergence of teams at the top of the Western Conference we've seen. This is either going to be really cool or really suck. :sadbanana:


I like that the west is so stacked. Win it all and erase a lot of bad memories, especially this season.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Winning it all would ease the pain of Cowboys fans, Desperado fans, Stars fans, etc...


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> Winning it all would ease the pain of Cowboys fans, Desperado fans, *Stars fans*, etc...


Wow, you care about hockey ?


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

croco said:


> Wow, you care about hockey ?


Not really, but locally people associate "Stars" to "1st round exit."


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> Not really, but locally people associate "Stars" to "1st round exit."


:rofl2:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Not cool.....


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

If I were mean I would mention now that the Cowboys had a 1st round bye at least.

But I am not and therefore I just say that eventually a Dallas team is going to break the 1st round jinx. :angel:


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## Ninjatune (May 1, 2006)

Stars are the the hottest team in the NHL. Until Kidd arrived in Dallas, I was watching more hockey then basketball.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Ninjatune said:


> Stars are the the hottest team in the NHL. Until Kidd arrived in Dallas, I was watching more hockey then basketball.


I glanced at the standings a couple of days ago and was surprised to see them #2 in the conference.

Then I went back to not caring. :whistling:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

xray said:


> I glanced at the standings a couple of days ago and was surprised to see them #2 in the conference.
> 
> Then I went back to not caring. :whistling:


:lol:

I went straight to the not caring part....


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## number1pick (May 24, 2007)

Dornado said:


> - I think Devin has shown flashes of what he's capable of too....
> 
> - Billups is as much of a point guard as Devin Harris is... not sure where you're going with that...
> 
> - Gary Payton averaged over 8 assists 6 times, which is slightly more than zero...


Devin has shown flashes of what he is capable of but it is clear he's not going to be on Kidd's level. He's had at 3+ years in this system and has gotten better marginally every year. His shooting has improved but he's still not an elite level passer and won't ever be. 

Payton 16.5 and 6 his 4th year by the way. He's more of a scorer than Kidd averaging in the 19-22 range during the prime of his career. 

Billups is much more of a PG than Harris. He's a scoring PG like Harris but he's a much better decision maker than Harris. He's never had a lot of talent around him until he got to Detroit and then his assists went up. 

Harris might be able to develop into a great PG like Billups has, but if you can't average at least 8+ assists with guys like Terry, Howard, Stack AND Dirk on your team, you probably will never be an elite level PG.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

number1pick said:


> Harris might be able to develop into a great PG like Billups has, but if you can't average at least 8+ assists with guys like Terry, Howard, Stack AND Dirk on your team, you probably will never be an elite level PG.


Agreed, but Harris has that body type that's not necessarily built for the grind of an 82 game schedule; if you can't follow in TP's footsteps and develop that jumper, and find a team with a low post scorer to give you those dimes on the stat sheet - well, you'll end up in NJ.


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