# Blazer's Upset at Greg Oden's decison to play pickup hoops



## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

linkage here.

sounds like he wont do it again.


----------



## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

Does anyone else find it ironic that you're posting a link to the story on ESPN about my thread on this forum?

http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/398185-greg-oden-pickup-game.html


----------



## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

a couple of threads down....

8 pages long....

links n stuff....


----------



## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

Yeah I heard the ESPN guys mention it at the end of sportscenter...i was like haha, breaking news from the forum. That's surely how the Blazer brass found out about it. Way to thrown GO under the bridge Eric.


----------



## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Bit harsh but understandable. The weight of the franchise is on Oden, he can't go around risking his and the franchise's future like that. Even if he wasn't running hard like he said, I agree with Nate's response: "I really don't care", or 'it doesn't matter'.
Plus the Blazers organisation has probably been giving Oden whatever he wants so far (in terms of special treatment and such), so why play a pickup game at a rec center with strangers, when you can play in the official Blazers gym with Jarret Jack? :laugh:


----------



## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

Is it Greg's fault that "The Weight of the Franchise is on him"? He's a 19 year old kid, for christ's sake, a fact I think we all seem to forget. While I don't think that playing a pick-up game at a local rec-center is the smartest move of all time, he isn't smoking weed out of a coke can or out crashing motorcycles or doing something that's insanely reckless. Was Bill Walton reprimanded for riding his bike around Oregon on an injury-prone foot? Was Clyde Drexler (or any other player, for that matter) forbidden to play pick-up games or do any phyiscal activity not officially sanctioned by the team, even while rehabbing an injury? Some of you seem to think that Greg is a robot, that he's only supposed to do his rehab, go home, and do an occassional PR thing. He was probably getting bored with the routine, and wanted the fun and ego-stroke of playing (and dominating) half-speed against decidedly inferior competition, what 19 year old kid wouldn't in his situation? If this is the worst that Greg is going to do in his career, I think we need to count our blessings and back off the guy, he's got enough pressure.


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

It's pretty simple really. Greg did something dumb, and the team told him not to do it again. He probably justified it in his mind because he more than likely wasn't going nearly as hard there as he would with Luke or on the hill.


----------



## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

He's young, It happened, it was kind of shortsighted of him to do it, the blazers have let Greg know he can't be doing that, he'll likely comply, and that will be the end of that ... I think people are reading WAAAAAAAY to much into what this means to Greg's relationship with the team and vice versa.

I imagine once Greg has come back fully from his injury the team's stance on pick-up games will soften somewhat ... as long as he's playing pickup games with other pros -- guys around the league do this all the time in the off-season.


----------



## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Some people are definitely overreacting. The team response was barely even a slap on the wrist. Nate said he's been there himself and only learned the error of his ways through hindsight... Not much of an admonishment there.

Dan


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Blazer's Upset at Greg Oden's decison to play pickup hoops



Also this just in, men like boobs.


Sorry Crandc, couldn't resist


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> Also this just in, *men like boobs.*
> 
> 
> Sorry Crandc, couldn't resist


I don't like Rush Limbaugh.


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Merge!!


----------



## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> Also this just in, men like boobs.
> 
> 
> Sorry Crandc, couldn't resist


Some of the men I know are attracted to flat hairy chests. 

Sorry, mm, couldn't resist.


----------



## enzo aix (Oct 7, 2007)

I think we should trade him now before he dose more stupid stuff!


----------



## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

i'd be upset too. but like chris said, he's 19 freaking years old. leave him be. what should the blazers do, put him under house arrest? get a grip people.


----------



## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Blazers question Oden playing pickup game at 24 Hour fitness..*

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi..._annoys_blazers_after_playing_in_pickup_game/


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Blazers question Oden playing pickup game at 24 Hour fitness..*

I swear I heard this somewhere...


----------



## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Blazers question Oden playing pickup game at 24 Hour fitness..*

cease and desist! we don't need 5 threads dedicated to this story :rules: :azdaja:


----------



## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: Blazers question Oden playing pickup game at 24 Hour fitness..*



nikolokolus said:


> cease and desist! we don't need 5 threads dedicated to this story :rules: :azdaja:


I strongly disagree. Let's get some more. Why do we need to read about the same old stuff all the time. Sergio does not get enough play time. Jack Sucks. Travis Sucks. Let's trade for Iggy. We should have got Harris. Iavaroni is the next Portland coach. Trade coming soon. Draft the 'Stache!

OK. Maybe you are right


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

*Re: Blazers question Oden playing pickup game at 24 Hour fitness..*

I didn't hear about this, what happened?


----------



## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: Blazers question Oden playing pickup game at 24 Hour fitness..*



HispanicCausinPanic said:


> I didn't hear about this, what happened?


Wait a couple of minutes. Someone will probably start a thread about it.


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Blazers question Oden playing pickup game at 24 Hour fitness..*

Blazerfan22 is one of the guys I was talking about in my post in the "visitor/guest" thread!


----------



## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

chris_in_pdx said:


> Is it Greg's fault that "The Weight of the Franchise is on him"?


no, but it is.


----------



## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

deanwoof said:


> i'd be upset too. but like chris said, he's 19 freaking years old. leave him be. what should the blazers do, put him under house arrest? get a grip people.


He's 20 years old and is being paid a lot of money to sit out the season. I hope he listens to what the team says about how to continue his rehab and what type of games are appropriate.


----------



## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

another one of those parallels between professional sports and slavery IMO. *sigh*


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

deanwoof said:


> another one of those parallels between professional sports and slavery IMO. *sigh*


seriously? 

the team being worried about him being injured and potentially limiting his own career, and slavery?

really?


----------



## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

Why is there still more than one thread for this?


----------



## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

Hap said:


> seriously?
> 
> the team being worried about him being injured and potentially limiting his own career, and slavery?
> 
> really?


It's not a stretch. The team is basically telling Greg what he can and cannot do during his off time. Now, you probably think for the money that's being paid to Greg, his "on time" is 24/7, which is ridiculous. It would be like your job telling you that you can't go out to dinner with your wife tonight because you might cut your finger off slicing the bread and have to miss work. How would you react to that?


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

chris_in_pdx said:


> It's not a stretch. The team is basically telling Greg what he can and cannot do during his off time.


they sign contracts. They sign contracts with stipulations in them because the owners are paying them MILLIONS to play, and they have to protect their investments. He is in rehab, and it could be harmful to him (and the team) if he were to do something stupid at the 24 fitness, in which it might cause issues regarding health coverage.

This isn't a case of the team just "controlling" him. This wasn't during his free time (otherwise one could make the argument that unless they're practicing or playing they're always on their free time). He did something that was potentially detrimental to himself, and against the rehab schedule.



> Now, you probably think for the money that's being paid to Greg, his "on time" is 24/7, which is ridiculous. It would be like your job telling you that you can't go out to dinner with your wife tonight because you might cut your finger off slicing the bread and have to miss work. How would you react to that?


No, it'd be like you working for a basketball team, having them provide the insurance to pay for your microfracture surgery, and then you going out and playing basketball with a bunch of guys who really aren't that good, where you can potentially re-injure the knee (or injure something else) because you're not in a situation where it's controlled, and it could be detrimental to your overall health.

I know sometimes it's popular to throw out the "slavery" card, or that these guys "have lives", but jesus christ people. They're asking him not to play basketball with a bunch of guys at a fitness center...is this really a bad idea?

Vlad Radmonovic last year was told not to ski...but he did anyways and screwed up his shoulder. Jay Williams wasn't supposed to drive a motorcycle, and he did..ended his career.

When Ronny Turiaf had open heart surgery, do you think he should've practiced with a bunch of guys that are at the local Y? Especially if he was paid a **** load of money?

Nope.

Practice with the team and the professionals who know what you can and can't do, and what you should and shouldn't do.


----------



## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

Hap said:


> This isn't a case of the team just "controlling" him. This wasn't during his free time (otherwise one could make the argument that unless they're practicing or playing they're always on their free time).


And you know that... how? Was Greg on Blazer team property? Was he missing a scheduled practice or workout or rehab session? Did his ankle bracelet radio transmitter go off telling the team that he had deviated from his pre-assigned routine for the day and that he would be punished for it?

As a matter of fact, when the players are not playing or praticing or attending some other type of team function, they ARE on their free time. Unless they are slaves, which you apparently seem to lean towards. Or, perhaps a better analogy is in the military, where after you sign up, the government owns you for the length of your contracted enlistement (at least, that's how they used to work before Bush and Stop-Loss).



Hap said:


> No, it'd be like you working for a basketball team, having them provide the insurance to pay for your microfracture surgery, and then you going out and playing basketball with a bunch of guys who really aren't that good, where you can potentially re-injure the knee (or injure something else) because you're not in a situation where it's controlled, and it could be detrimental to your overall health.


So, in other words, Greg to you is not a slave, he's an "indentured servant".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant



Hap said:


> I know sometimes it's popular to throw out the "slavery" card, or that these guys "have lives", but jesus christ people. They're asking him not to play basketball with a bunch of guys at a fitness center...is this really a bad idea?


The issue at hand is not whether or not it was a good or bad idea for Greg to have played the pick-up game. I think it's a general consensus that it was a bad idea, there were too many risks, and that it showed that Greg is a 19/20 year old kid who sometimes makes poor choices. If you didn't at that age, then have a gold star, because the rest of us did.

The issue is whether the team has the right to tell Greg what or what not to do during time when he is not under the supervision of the team or it's representatives (i.e. Greg's "free time"). I say they don't. And if Greg chooses to F up his knee/leg/arm, then there should be contractual consequenses, but that choice was Greg's to make, not the team's.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

chris_in_pdx said:


> And you know that... how? Was Greg on Blazer team property? Was he missing a scheduled practice or workout or rehab session? Did his ankle bracelet radio transmitter go off telling the team that he had deviated from his pre-assigned routine for the day and that he would be punished for it?


I'm fairly certain that the Blazers don't own 24 hour fitness.



> As a matter of fact, when the players are not playing or praticing or attending some other type of team function, they ARE on their free time.


and most of them, if they're rehabbing, are advised not to play basketball in an unsanctioned place.



> Unless they are slaves, which you apparently seem to lean towards.


Yep. Because I don't agree with you I must apparently view them as slaves and that they should be slaves. Brilliant deduction.



> Or, perhaps a better analogy is in the military, where after you sign up, the government owns you for the length of your contracted enlistement (at least, that's how they used to work before Bush and Stop-Loss).
> 
> So, in other words, Greg to you is not a slave, he's an "indentured servant".
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant


He is rehabbing deleted. It's not SMART for him to play basketball, even at a light pace, in an unsupervised situation. 



> The issue at hand is not whether or not it was a good or bad idea for Greg to have played the pick-up game. I think it's a general consensus that it was a bad idea, there were too many risks, and that it showed that Greg is a 19/20 year old kid who sometimes makes poor choices. If you didn't at that age, then have a gold star, because the rest of us did.


Whether or not I did or didn't do something at that have has nothing to do with the subject. This isn't about me, but props on the attempt to try to make it about me.



> The issue is whether the team has the right to tell Greg what or what not to do during time when he is not under the supervision of the team or it's representatives (i.e. Greg's "free time"). I say they don't.


considering they're in charge of his rehab, and are still paying him, they do. If this was like a "real" job, where you can be fired (or reprimanded) for doing something that goes against what the rehab you're on says, he'd be getting in trouble. 


> And if Greg chooses to F up his knee/leg/arm, then there should be contractual consequenses, but that choice was Greg's to make, not the team's.


So the team should just let the players do whatever they want, if it's their free time?

We have to remember there is an issue of insurance here. It's like how certain pro wrestlers retire, instead of continue wrestling. They know that if they do something stupid (like, ooh...wrestle) it could basically mean they have no more insurance. And if they get hurt? They're really screwed.

Of course, the chances of Greg being injured so badly that he has to retire are slim (but it's not impossible). And if the team that is paying him, paid for his operation, has hired people to help him rehab, have invested a LOT of hours into him rehabbing correctly and making it so his career is longer, wants him not to play pickup basketball? 

This is bad why? ooh , I know, because he's black and it must be about slavery.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

chris_in_pdx said:


> So, in other words, Greg to you is not a slave, he's an "indentured servant".


No. he's a highly-paid, skilled worker who, due to the unique nature of his job, is in a situation where his body is part of the team's investment and that is _part_ of the deal. Most contracts with athletes involve clauses forbidding unsanctioned physical sports. If you, as the athlete, don't like the condition, don't sign the deal. Or, if you have enough negotiating power, have it removed from the contract. Michael Jordan made sure it was in his contract that he could play basketball whenever he wanted, because he had the power to get that concession from the team.

Deals with legal limitations, entered into voluntarily, is no form of slavery or indentured servitude.


----------



## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

There's also the matter of guaranteed contracts. Of course the team will want a say in what kinds of activities are appropriate. They have to pay millions of dollars whether Greg plays or not. They have a serious interest in Greg staying healthy.

Go Blazers


----------



## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

chris_in_pdx said:


> And if Greg chooses to F up his knee/leg/arm, then there should be contractual consequenses, but that choice was Greg's to make, not the team's.


But there aren't contractual consequences. Greg gets paid whether or not he suffers a career-ending injury. What he gives up, in return for that, is his freedom to do whatever he wants, physically, in his spare time.

barfo


----------



## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

chris_in_pdx said:


> It's not a stretch. The team is basically telling Greg what he can and cannot do during his off time. Now, you probably think for the money that's being paid to Greg, his "on time" is 24/7, which is ridiculous. It would be like your job telling you that you can't go out to dinner with your wife tonight because you might cut your finger off slicing the bread and have to miss work. How would you react to that?


If I'd signed a contract that said I wouldn't go out to dinner with my wife, then I think my employer would have a damn good complaint if I did go out with her (aside from the fact that she's imaginary).

barfo


----------



## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

barfo said:


> But there aren't contractual consequences. Greg gets paid whether or not he suffers a career-ending injury. What he gives up, in return for that, is his freedom to do whatever he wants, physically, in his spare time.


Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Where's the cut off point? Can Greg weed his garden? Mow the lawn? Put away his groceries? How about driving to and from games and the practice facility? He might get in a wreck! How about getting off the couch? That's how he hurt his knee in the first place, remember? Can't play video games, either, those thumbs are valuable! And going out to eat? Carrying luggage? Traveling in a plane? All dangerous!

He's an athlete. That's all he's ever been, that's all he knows how to do. To tell him that he can't play ball when he's feeling fine is like telling him not to breathe. Some of you would wish that he be placed in suspended animation between games and practices. That's not realistic. Life happens, even to NBA players.


----------



## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

chris_in_pdx said:


> Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Where's the cut off point? Can Greg weed his garden? Mow the lawn? Put away his groceries? How about driving to and from games and the practice facility? He might get in a wreck! How about getting off the couch? That's how he hurt his knee in the first place, remember? Can't play video games, either, those thumbs are valuable! And going out to eat? Carrying luggage? Traveling in a plane? All dangerous!
> 
> He's an athlete. That's all he's ever been, that's all he knows how to do. To tell him that he can't play ball when he's feeling fine is like telling him not to breathe. Some of you would wish that he be placed in suspended animation between games and practices. That's not realistic. Life happens, even to NBA players.


Life happens, but playing pick-up games at the local gym while you are supposedly too injured to be on the Rose Garden court is a bad idea for anyone.

How did you ever get on the Fan Advisory board?


----------



## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Just saw the KOIN6 report and it showed bbf.com!

Let's just say I'm glad ChrisinPDX isn't in charge.

Slavery? :rofl2: 

I'll take that at $4 million a year.


----------



## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

chris_in_pdx said:


> Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Where's the cut off point? Can Greg weed his garden? Mow the lawn? Put away his groceries? How about driving to and from games and the practice facility? He might get in a wreck! How about getting off the couch? That's how he hurt his knee in the first place, remember? Can't play video games, either, those thumbs are valuable! And going out to eat? Carrying luggage? Traveling in a plane? All dangerous!


The question is not what is dangerous, but what is prohibited by his contract. If his contract says that he can't mow the lawn, then if he does the blazers have a beef, especially if his lawn is on a slippery slope. If the contract doesn't cover mowing the lawn, the blazers have no right to say anything about it. It's very cut-and-dried-and-raked-up.

barfo


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

chris_in_pdx said:


> Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Where's the cut off point?


Contractual stipulations that he agreed to.


----------



## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> Contractual stipulations that he agreed to.


Yeah, and until someone can post Greg Oden's actual contract which specifically outlines what Greg can and cannot do while on his off-time, this is all conjecture and speculation. I have a differing opinion than the rest of you, and you know what? That's okay. I don't have to agree with people on everything, since I'm not a lemming.


----------



## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

PapaG said:


> Life happens, but playing pick-up games at the local gym while you are supposedly too injured to be on the Rose Garden court is a bad idea for anyone.


I think I said this already. However, until you can post to me proof that Oden is contractually forbidden to play pick-up games while under contract, then I'll stick by my opinion.



> How did you ever get on the Fan Advisory board?


Ad hominem attacks. I had a higher opinion of you than that, Papa. I guess I was wrong.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

chris_in_pdx said:


> Yeah, and until someone can post Greg Oden's actual contract which specifically outlines what Greg can and cannot do while on his off-time, this is all conjecture and speculation.


Well, it's standard in professional sports contracts and the team told him not to do it again, which would be futile if they had no way to enforce it, so it's conjecture with strong supporting evidence.

Your speculation that Oden is one of the rare athletes with no such provisions in his contract and therefore is being treated like a slave or indentured servant, I would say, is much more lacking in evidence.


----------



## Sonny-Canzano (Oct 20, 2007)

crandc said:


> Some of the men I know are attracted to flat hairy chests.


Gross


----------



## Sonny-Canzano (Oct 20, 2007)

I think everyone needs to chill out. At Greg's age, I don't blame him for itching to get on the court again, even if it is against inferior competition. However, he had microfracture surgery 6-7 months ago. Last thing we want is our franchise center to re-injur his knee or injur his other knee. 

Oden is young but this was very stupid on his part.


----------



## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

chris_in_pdx said:


> Ad hominem attacks. *I had a higher opinion of you than that, Papa*. I guess I was wrong.


You did? Wow. I guess time heals all wounds. :raised_ey

Your whole slavery/indentured servant thing seemed stupid to me. This isn't Oden's "off time". He is under contract and is being paid almost $4 million until the season ends. If that is slavery, sign me up.


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

crandc said:


> Some of the men I know are attracted to flat hairy chests.
> 
> Sorry, mm, couldn't resist.


I know HAP does!


----------



## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

Listen guys, my opinion on the matter is simple. It's not so much that he played in a pickup game, lots of NBA athletes play in pickup games in the offseason, it's that he played in a pickup game fresh off a six month rehab program for a serious knee surgery. That's why it was reckless. To my knowledge he hasn't even played in a full scrimmage with the team, so this was pretty serious business.


----------



## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I'm torn. I can see both sides of the spectrum on this issue.


----------



## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> I'm torn. I can see both sides of the spectrum on this issue.


Would you please pick a side and send me a memo, I'm keeping score at home. 

Seriously, I have concern that Greg Oden was playing in a pickup game. I get that he is a young kid, I'm sure he believes that he is bulletproof, indestructible, and 7 feet tall. Well he is right on one account. If he was cleared totally from the medical staff then I wouldn't think anything of it. Accidents do happen, no one on that court would want him to screw up that knee again. I think that it's cool that Nate got to play with Oden, I just wish that Oden was cleared to be playing against/with Nate.


----------



## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

A member of the Blazers getting bashed because he was friendly and reached out to the fans....without official sanction.

This should be kinda funny, but all I feel is an overwhelming weariness.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Oldmangrouch said:


> A member of the Blazers getting bashed because he was friendly and reached out to the fans....without official sanction.
> 
> This should be kinda funny, but all I feel is an overwhelming weariness.


who is bashing Greg?


----------



## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Blazers question Oden playing pickup game at 24 Hour fitness..*



nikolokolus said:


> cease and desist! we don't need 5 threads dedicated to this story :rules: :azdaja:


Hot mail seems to be a big issue in this forum! They should have some luc warm mail to.


----------



## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Hap said:


> who is bashing Greg?


Typical (internet) headline: "Oden plays pickup game, Blazers get mad,"
(thats from MSN)

The story is already being positioned as "the kid is an irresponsible jerk!" You know the Canzano/Quick mafia is already sharpening the blades. The first time he has a bad practice, or wears the wrong color tie to a public appearance, they will dredge this up and beat him (and the team, and the fans) over the head with it.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Typical (internet) headline: "Oden plays pickup game, Blazers get mad,"
> (thats from MSN)
> 
> The story is already being positioned as "the kid is an irresponsible jerk!" You know the Canzano/Quick mafia is already sharpening the blades. The first time he has a bad practice, or wears the wrong color tie to a public appearance, they will dredge this up and beat him (and the team, and the fans) over the head with it.


so who is bashing Greg?


----------



## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

The media, i believe is what he is saying.


----------



## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Those headlines are terribly misleading. Anyone with the slightest bit of reading comprehension will quickly see that the team quotes do not match the headline. Nate says he understands where Greg was coming from, and on camera he can even be seen smiling when talking about it. It's a humorous situation that the team told Greg not to repeat, nothing more.

Dan


----------



## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Yea, it was made MUCH to big of a deal out of.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

dkap said:


> Those headlines are terribly misleading. Anyone with the slightest bit of reading comprehension will quickly see that the team quotes do not match the headline. Nate says he understands where Greg was coming from, and on camera he can even be seen smiling when talking about it. It's a humorous situation that the team told Greg not to repeat, nothing more.
> 
> Dan


Slave owners laughed you know.


----------

