# Don't Draft the 'Stache!



## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Just thought I'd put it out there. If it comes to a choice between Aldridge or Thomas or Bargnani (and, if Charlotte takes Rudy Gay, it will) and Morrison, and we take Morrison out of some craven attempt to win over fans, I will be mad. Not mad as hell, but pretty dang peeved. Who's with me?


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

meru said:


> Just thought I'd put it out there. If it comes to a choice between Aldridge or Thomas or Bargnani (and, if Charlotte takes Rudy Gay, it will) and Morrison, and we take Morrison out of some craven attempt to win over fans, I will be mad. Not mad as hell, but pretty dang peeved. Who's with me?



I would be if that were the reason they took him. I believe though that they will take the player they think is best for the team. if that means Roy for whatever reason I'll have to deal with it as you will if they take Morrison.

They scouted Morrison 30+ times this year, so if they do pick him I can only assume that it's because they think he is a good player.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I think this has already been established in the Draft surivor thread. While people will have to agree to disagree to a certain extent, it seemed fairly obvious to me that most people want Lemarcus Aldridge over all.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Not with you on this one Meru. First of all... I don't think they'd do that*. They will pick the player they think will help them win games... with ability to stay out of trouble factored in. If they pick Morrison, I am sure there will be some that say they did it because of the 30 fans shouting 'draft the stache'... but I don't buy that. 

*Now... if all things were equal, as if it was a 50-50 toss up between two players and they though both would help us win games equally, I DO think they need to keep the fan's opinion in mind. We buy the dang tickets. But again, it is up to them to decide who is best and I seriously doubt it would come down to a tie.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

meru said:


> Just thought I'd put it out there. If it comes to a choice between Aldridge or Thomas or Bargnani (and, if Charlotte takes Rudy Gay, it will) and Morrison, and we take Morrison out of some craven attempt to win over fans, I will be mad. Not mad as hell, but pretty dang peeved. Who's with me?


But what if we take Morrison because we legitimately feel he is the best player for us? Will you be pretty dang peeved then? And how will you know _why_ we take Morrison (or any other player for that matter)? Will you believe the Blazers if they say they took Morrison because they feel he is the best player for the future of the team? Or will you dismiss any such statements and continue to feel that they took him out of some craven attempt to win over fans (presumably because you personally feel other players who may be available at the time are better)?

If the Blazers *do* take Morrison, I would have to believe it would be because they feel he is the best player for them still available at the time they pick. The stakes are simply just too high to be making a top draft decision on the basis of appeasement. And as more than one Blazers' decision-maker has said recently, winning will put more butts in seats than a home-town hero.

I think you overestimate the ability of the local fan-base to influence the team's decision-making process. Yeah, we have 20-30 people here day in, day out who talk and talk and talk about this stuff ad nauseum. But outside of Internet forums, there are precious few who actually care about who the Blazers take in the draft... and even fewer who vocalize their preferences.

PBF


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Let me think about it..am I with you...hmmmmm...

Ok...NO!


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

If they take Morrison I hope he turns out to be the best player he can be. If somebody else takes him, I hope he turns out to be a pile of crap. Its not like I am going to quit watching a team because of who they draft one particular year, if that was the case I would have stopped watching the Blazers about 10 times.


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

ProudBFan said:


> But what if we take Morrison because we legitimately feel he is the best player for us?



EXACTLY! I pimp Ammo hard, but I think, and I think the Blazers believe he will be a phenomenal player. Who knows if they will draft him. The fact that he will be a fan favorite and sell merchandise is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Oil Can said:


> EXACTLY! I pimp Ammo hard, but I think, and I think the Blazers believe he will be a phenomenal player. Who knows if they will draft him. The fact that he will be a fan favorite and sell merchandise is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.


Well hopefully we don't get stuck with Carrot cakes with Walnut icing. :clown:


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Oil Can said:


> EXACTLY! I pimp Ammo hard, but I think, and I think the Blazers believe he will be a phenomenal player. Who knows if they will draft him. The fact that he will be a fan favorite and sell merchandise is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.


Well said, Oil Can.

PBF


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

hasoos said:


> Well hopefully we don't get stuck with Carrot cakes with Walnut icing. :clown:


I make a great carrot cake, Hasoos. Maybe next Bash?

I agree with PBF. If it were a late or a 2nd round pick going with sentiment might work. The guy is going to be the #9 or #10 in the depth chart so go for fan fave. A top lotto pick has to be based on honest assessment. We know honest assessment is not infallible but I truly cannot see the team intentionally drafting a mediocrity to please 30 people at a rally. And the people won't stay pleased if the player really is a mediocrity.
That being said, I don't think Ammo is mediocre. I wish there was a way to get Morrison or Gay AND Aldridge. If the team can pull off that miracle I will be a happy camper....

...provided I can get my kitty Margot who got loose Thursday to come home


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

It all depends on how you use Morrison. He isn't a clear out stand around watch him go one on one player. If we try to make him do that it will be ugly.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

I got half season ticket package and if we don't pick Morrison I won't be asking for a refund,,,,most likely. But I will be a lot more excited about going to games this year if we do draft Morrison.

Over all as long as we draft either Aldridge, Morrison, or Bargnani, I'll be happy. Really only if we trade down will I be really disappointed. I guess a lot will depend on what we get and who we get rid of in the trade but most likely I'll be disappointed.


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## ThePrideOfClyde (Mar 28, 2006)

*Draft The Stache!*


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

It's almost mind-boggling to think about all the possibilities that are open to the Blazers right now. They could stand pat at #4. They could trade up in any number of ways to any of the 3 higher spots. They could trade down in any number of ways to any of the 25 lower spots. And I think if you try to predict exactly what they're going to do, all you're going to do is drive yourself insane.

I'm glad the Blazers are (for the most part) playing it close to the vest right now. We may learn more about what they intend to do between now and when they make their pick (we learned about an hour before). Personally, I look forward to being pleasantly surprised. Call it self-preservation.

PBF


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## OntheRocks (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Draft The Stache!*



ThePrideOfClyde said:


>



Amen.

Lovin' in. :banana:


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## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

*Choke!*



ThePrideOfClyde said:


>


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Choke!*



Blazed said:


>



Whatever. The guy is a warrior. Do you participate in sports? I do. I see people give their absolute all in triathlons and cry at the end. Heck, I have cried at the end. Extreme competition and involvement bring out emotions. 

Give me 12 players with the heart of Morrison.


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## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Choke!*



Oil Can said:


> Whatever. The guy is a warrior. Do you participate in sports? I do. I see people give their absolute all in triathlons and cry at the end. Heck, I have cried at the end. Extreme competition and involvement bring out emotions.
> 
> Give me 12 players with the heart of Morrison.


Morrison didn't just cry. He broke down. I like his passion, but he seems emotionally unstable as well.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Choke!*



Oil Can said:


> Whatever. The guy is a warrior. Do you participate in sports? I do. I see people give their absolute all in triathlons and cry at the end. Heck, I have cried at the end.


That's what separates you from Morrison... you wait until the end of the game to start crying.

Ed O.


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

You guys can question Morrison's defense. You can question his rebounding. You can question his quickness or ability to succeed at the next level...but I do not know how you can question his heart and mental toughness.


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## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

Oil Can said:


> I do not know how you can question his heart and mental toughness.


I don't see anyone questioning his heart here. But his mental toughness is easily questioned. Morrison choked and then broke down and started crying *WITH TIME ON THE CLOCK!* Morrison was so emotionally distraught that he couldn't concentrate on the game. He should have been ready and open to take a shot at the end of the game, but in his mind the game was already over.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Oil Can said:


> You guys can question Morrison's defense. You can question his rebounding. You can question his quickness or ability to succeed at the next level...but I do not know how you can question his heart and mental toughness.


Seriously, crying doesn't bother me at all. But the guy started breaking down *before the game was over*.

How was THAT exhibiting mental toughness?

It's easy to be mentally tough when things go your way...

Ed O.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Who really cares?I see no problem with him crying because they game was over any ways generaly with 1 second left and the team is up its over.Even at the end of championship games i cryed a few times because i was so into the game and my team lose see when we were in 2003.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Blazed... now I don't know exactly why he cried before the end of that game... but I've been around some diabetics that had far worse happen to them. One time they get mad, the other they get all wishy washy... sometimes they go to cartoonland, and it can happen pretty fast... I have seen someone check their blood sugar before a meeting and saw them sail off to la la land about 15 minutes later. Again, I am not saying that is why Morrison did that... but it is at least something to consider.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

morrison and brewer


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Paxil said:


> Blazed... now I don't know exactly why he cried before the end of that game... but I've been around some diabetics that had far worse happen to them. One time they get mad, the other they get all wishy washy... sometimes they go to cartoonland, and it can happen pretty fast... I have seen someone check their blood sugar before a meeting and saw them sail off to la la land about 15 minutes later. Again, I am not saying that is why Morrison did that... but it is at least something to consider.



I echo your points about diabetics. One of my best friends was a diabetic (he was killed last year in an accident). He was very disciplined in some regards due to his regimented lifestyle. Taht said, the disease really messes with your emotions. Sometimes he would get angry very easily, and some times he would be ecstatic for no apperent reason. 

His toughness...IMO cannot be questioned. He is a warrior.


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

The Bulldogs played Michigan State, Connecticut, Washington, Memphis and UCLA this past season. UCLA lost in the national championship game, Memphis and Connecticut lost in regional finals. Washington went to the Sweet 16, and Michigan State lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to an eventual Final Four club (George Mason). There will almost assuredly be 15 or 16 players drafted from those programs next week, with as many as 12 of those being tabbed in the first round.

How did Morrison produce in those games? He averaged 32.4 points, 5.4 rebounds and 2.2 assists, while shooting .522 from the field.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I'd cry too if my team made a horrendous, stupid, ill-advised turnover that could have easily been prevented that cost his team the game with barely a second remaining...They didn't get him the ball down the stretch and teammates were making bone-headed mistakes like not taking the ball back out top after they got an offensive rebound which reset the shot clock with under a minute to go...The game was in their hands...

I can only imagine what someone like Darius Miles would have done.

The only people who dwell on that situation are those who are trying to make Morrison look bad.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Oil Can said:


> The Bulldogs played Michigan State, Connecticut, Washington, Memphis and UCLA this past season. UCLA lost in the national championship game, Memphis and Connecticut lost in regional finals. Washington went to the Sweet 16, and Michigan State lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to an eventual Final Four club (George Mason). There will almost assuredly be 15 or 16 players drafted from those programs next week, with as many as 12 of those being tabbed in the first round.
> 
> How did Morrison produce in those games? He averaged 32.4 points, 5.4 rebounds and 2.2 assists, while shooting .522 from the field.


Oh but, but, but.....

He's in a weak conference, sir! :clown:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

"There's no question he's mentally tough!"

-- "He started crying before the biggest game of his career was even over."

"But he's got diabetes!"

-- "He started crying before the biggest game of his career was even over."

"But check out how well he did against good competition!"

-- "He started crying before the biggest game of his career was even over."

"Anyone who brings up that he started crying before the game was over as a counter to his mental toughness isn't mentally tought themselves!"

-- "He started crying before the biggest game of his career was even over."

"But... but... there's no question he's mentally tough!"

This whole "mentally tough" thing is gibberish. Might he be? Sure. Is his breaking down in the NCAA tournament when things got tough evidence that shatters the "no question" status of it?

I don't see how it's not.

Ed O.


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## Blazer Maven (Sep 27, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> I can only imagine what someone like Darius Miles would have done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Ed O said:


> "
> This whole "mentally tough" thing is gibberish.
> 
> Ed O.



Then why are you arguing the point?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Oil Can said:


> Then why are you arguing the point?


Because you're making an assertion that is patently false.

Unquestionably mentally tough players don't start crying over losing a game before it's over... and yet you continue to make excuses for why Morrison did so and is STILL unquestionably mentally tough.

It's ridiculous, and I want to try to show you how ridiculous it reads.

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Ed O said:


> Because you're making an assertion that is patently false.
> 
> Unquestionably mentally tough players don't start crying over losing a game before it's over... and yet you continue to make excuses for why Morrison did so and is STILL unquestionably mentally tough.
> 
> ...


He cried on the court therefore he's a pansy....

Who cares that he was the reason that his team was in that position in the first place.

That he outplayed every player he played against.

He hit game winning shots. He showed he is a relentless competitor on numerous occasions throughout the year...

But, he did cry in that game where his teammates made horrible mental mistakes and lost the game in the closing seconds on a couple boneheaded plays that he wasn't in control of...

Yea, he's a mental midget..


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> He cried on the court therefore he's a pansy....
> 
> Who cares that he was the reason that his team was in that position in the first place.
> 
> ...


Look at what Ed is saying and stop taking it to extremes. Good grief, put down the Zags glasses for a minute and stop taking everything personally. Ed isn't even slamming Morrison, he's saying that you can't logically argue that he's unquestionably (keyword: unquestionably) mentally tough if you (in this case Oilcan) have to make excuses (and more than one) for why he was crying before the game was over. Ed's just playing linguistic mathematician - he's arguing a technicality based around a formula where 1 statement plus 1 statement must lead to 1 conclusion, that's what lawyers do.

And before you respond, you've already lost. So just accept it, move along, and you can party tomorrow when we select him.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

crandc said:


> I make a great carrot cake, Hasoos. Maybe next Bash?


I always keep an open mind Crandc! :biggrin:


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Ed O said:


> Because you're making an assertion that is patently false.
> 
> Unquestionably mentally tough players don't start crying over losing a game before it's over... and yet you continue to make excuses for why Morrison did so and is STILL unquestionably mentally tough.
> 
> ...


Oh, I see. So you are giving me your opinion. 

Maybe I just have been on more teams than you and have a different perspective on how and why athletes act as they do. 

We will have to agree to disagree on what an unquestionably tough player is or isn't.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Oil Can said:


> Oh, I see. So you are giving me your opinion.


Does someone give you their opinion when they disprove something mathematically, or point out a definition in the dictionary?

I suppose so, in a way.

So I guess, in a way, I'm just giving you my opinion.



> Maybe I just have been on more teams than you and have a different perspective on how and why athletes act as they do.


Perhaps.

Or maybe you are biased towards Morrison and you're absolutely full of **** because of it.



> We will have to agree to disagree on what an unquestionably tough player is or isn't.


Maybe. But that entails you making up a new definition for "unquestionable". 

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Being biased towards someone is just as bad as someone who is biased against a particular player.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Oil Can said:


> Oh, I see. So you are giving me your opinion.
> 
> Maybe I just have been on more teams than you and have a different perspective on how and why athletes act as they do.
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree on what an unquestionably tough player is or isn't.


Your pro contract is due up when? Oh that's right.

So because you're an athlete, you now speak for all athletes.

Just like you speak for the entire fanbase, who will be figuratively slapped in the face if we don't draft Morrison.

Give it up Oil Can, you're taking the argument he's making, which by the way has NOTHING to do with Morrison but merely the definition of a word you are using, way too far. And by the way, I've debated these points before, therefore I speak for all debaters worldwide... :biggrin:


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Oil Can said:


> Oh, I see. So you are giving me your opinion.
> 
> Maybe I just have been on more teams than you and have a different perspective on how and why athletes act as they do.
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree on what an unquestionably tough player is or isn't.


I don't understand why people try and argue with Ed when he sinks his teeth into such logical arguments.

If he's unquestionably mentally tough, then his mental toughness cannot be questioned. It is being questioned, and excuses are being generated by the very person who said that it was unquestionable. So, there you go - it's not unquestionable.

Notice that Ed didn't assert - "Adam Morrison is a pansy". He's too smart for that.

I think people get frustrated with Ed because he usually picks arguments that he has already won, and I think Ed gets frustrated with people because they refuse to recognize the point that he is arguing and that he has already won it... but that's what makes it fun, right?


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Ed O said:


> So I guess, in a way, I'm just giving you my opinion.


I edited out your bloviating to get to the admitted fact that you are offering your opinion. Thanks for clarification.



> Or maybe you are biased towards Morrison and you're absolutely full of **** because of it.


Yes. I am biased towards Morrison. That said, I have admitted what I see as his faults-rebounding, and defense. His toughness is not in question in my book. Since I would assume I have much more first hand exposure in regards to Morrison than you, I will stick to what I have witnessed, rather than what you have written. 





> Maybe. But that entails you making up a new definition for "unquestionable".
> 
> Ed O.


I know that you unquestionably have a potty mouth. How about that for a definition? Does that work? Reading through your postings, I notice that you offer your opinion as fact as much as anyone here....so be it. 

Take it easy tiger, that light bulb over Nacho's head will explode.....


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

yakbladder said:


> Your pro contract is due up when? Oh that's right.


Did I say I was pro at anything? But, if you want to know, I do have a professional triathlon sponsorship with PowerBar. I wear their gear, they pay for my racing. Does that make me a pro? You are welcome at any of my races if you want proof. I will be doing the Mid-summer at Blue Lake, the Scoggins Valley at Hagg Lake, The Aluminum Man in The Dalles, and a couple of others. Stop by and say hi.




> Just like you speak for the entire fanbase, who will be figuratively slapped in the face if we don't draft Morrison.


Since I can blowhard like the rest of you, please refresh my memory as to when I spoke for the entire fanbase? Haven't I always said "I am a casual fan"? and as a "casual fan" I think it is a bad PR move not to draft him? That I will buy tickets if they take him and won't if they don't? 



> Give it up Oil Can, you're taking the argument he's making, which by the way has NOTHING to do with Morrison but merely the definition of a word you are using, way too far.


Hey, I am just getting a chuckle out of this stuff. Ed O and I have different designations of unquestionable. 




> And by the way, I've debated these points before, therefore I speak for all debaters worlwide... :biggrin:


Then you might have your constituents vote to recall you becuase your not making headway for the party line.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Oil Can said:


> Hey, I am just getting a chuckle out of this stuff. Ed O and I have different designations of unquestionable.


Yours must be the one without the "un" part... I get it.


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Choke!*



Oil Can said:


> Whatever. The guy is a warrior. Do you participate in sports? I do. I see people give their absolute all in triathlons and cry at the end. Heck, I have cried at the end. Extreme competition and involvement bring out emotions.
> 
> Give me 12 players with the heart of Morrison.


But he cried before the end....his team was still playing, big difference, don't you think?


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

Sorry, I responded before reading through the rest of the thread and didn't know my point was already, and more lucidly, made.

God, please don't draft the Stache!!!


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

As a big believer in the cumulative benefits of putting a team of long athletic players with complimentry games together, using the #4 pick on a guy who is anything but would be yet another step in the wrong direction (IMO). Portland already has a small shoot first PG, a SG whose lone calling card is his jumper, and a ground bound PF who is a black hole and soft and slow at defending the paint. Since only 1 guy gets to shoot and none of those guys excell at much else, I see adding another gunner (who brings little else) to that mix as plain stupid. I certainly don't see him as such a talent that the PTB's should scrap what value they have in their current mix.

Hopefully this is just as obvious to the front office and we won't have to see it proven on the court. If they do select AM, I'll point to the silver lining that another brutal season might both cement the current managements ouster as well as bettering the odds for Oden. Greg could make a lot of wrongs right in a hurry. 

STOMP


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

STOMP said:


> As a big believer in the cumulative benefits of putting a team of long athletic players with complimentry games together, using the #4 pick on a guy who is anything but would be yet another step in the wrong direction (IMO). Portland already has a small shoot first PG, a SG whose lone calling card is his jumper, and a ground bound PF who is a black hole and soft and slow at defending the paint. Since only 1 guy gets to shoot and none of those guys excell at much else, I see adding another gunner (who brings little else) to that mix as plain stupid. I certainly don't see him as such a talent that the PTB's should scrap what value they have in their current mix.
> 
> Hopefully this is just as obvious to the front office and we won't have to see it proven on the court. *If they do select AM, I'll point to the silver lining that another brutal season might both cement the current managements ouster as well as bettering the odds for Oden.* Greg could make a lot of wrongs right in a hurry.
> 
> STOMP


So what player in this draft do you think will bring an immediate impact and not cement us into another brutal season...?


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> So what player in this draft do you think will bring an immediate impact and not cement us into another brutal season...?


I think Roy and Aldridge would be the best fit with whats in place now. Of the much talked about top 6, I think Thomas and AM would be the worst fit. But since I doubt anyone in this draft could lead this club to the playoffs next season, I probably somewhat overstated my dire outlook in the part you bolded. 

I'd be happiest if the club landed Bargnani or Aldridge. The club needs bigs, and I think both of those guys are likely to have quality careers. Gay would be OK by me as well.

STOMP


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Again, I will have to agree to disagree. Morrison is, in my opinion, the best pick for this franchise. If they pick him, I beleive that the Trailblazer organization would see boosts in wins. I think they would see a boost in attendance, boost in merchandise sales, and a potential face for the franchise. 


You guys can spin around like square dancers on your potential picks of Roy and Allredge. 

If Portland takes Morrison, I will follow this team and root for them adamantly. If they don't, I just will spend sports and entertainment dollars elsewhere. This is not eco-terrorism, or whatever overblown statement was made by somebody. 

BTW, here is what our friends at Merriam Webster state:

Main Entry: un·ques·tion·able 
Pronunciation: -'kwes-ch&-n&-b&l, -'kwesh-
Function: adjective
: not questionable : INDISPUTABLE <unquestionable evidence>
- un·ques·tion·ably /-blE/ adverb 

Since, I dispute Ed O's self admitted opinion, then it isn't unquestionable is it?


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