# OFFICIAL: Dwight Howard traded to Ephebophiles Anonymous



## 29380

> Nets have emerged as No. 1 choice for Dwight Howard, multiple sources say. D12 is expected to ask Magic to trade him to NJ.





> NJ offering Brook Lopez & 2 1st rnd picks, as @ESPNSteinLine wrote last wk


http://twitter.com/#!/chris_broussard


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## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

This is seriously the happiest I've been in a long time.


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## King Joseus

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Nets fans:


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## King Joseus

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Lakers fans:


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## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

why


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## NOFX22

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Damn now that I know Howard will be a Net, I want the Chris Paul trade to go through cuz no way that teams wins a title with just Paul, Kobe and Bynum


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## GrandKenyon6

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Let this happen. Please. We are the Nets though, so I fully expect this not to actually happen.

Considering I live in Orlando, the worst thing about this is that I will still have to suffer through watching Brook Lopez if it actually happens.


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

The NBA can't veto this lol


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## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I need this to be finalized, like right now. My hopes are up and they're not coming down so if the deal falls through I might just die of disappointment.


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## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*


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## [Myst.]

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Brian said:


>


That's the exact look I had when I read this.


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## Dee-Zy

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

WTF, so much for the CBA


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## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Umm hello people...if Stern isn't going to let Paul decide where he wants to go then why would he let Howard go where he wants to go?


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## eddymac

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Umm hello people...if Stern isn't going to let Paul decide where he wants to go then why would he let Howard go where he wants to go?


There is nothing the NBA can do about Orlando trading Dwight to my Nets. The Hornets are currently owned by the league so therefore the owners had the right to veto the deal.


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## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I thought he was joking :2ti: How could Stern just be like NO. to a random deal :laugh:


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## kbdullah

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I'm going to have to root against this otherwise Deron might want to stay in NJ which would mean this Mavericks rebuild could be an epic fail.


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## GrandKenyon6

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Umm hello people...if Stern isn't going to let Paul decide where he wants to go then why would he let Howard go where he wants to go?


Not the same. The Paul trade was nixed because Stern (and I don't agree with him) deemed it to be grossly unfair and against the best interests of basketball, not because Paul dictated where he wanted to go. Did Paul even dictate where he wanted to go? That's unclear. Anyway, it was nixed because it was unfair.



eddymac said:


> There is nothing the NBA can do about Orlando trading Dwight to my Nets. The Hornets are currently owned by the league so therefore the owners had the right to veto the deal.


That's not true. The commissioner can veto any trade that he deems is against the best interests of basketball.


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## seifer0406

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I wonder if we'll ever see idunkonyou again. Or maybe he'll convert to a Nets fan.


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## Blue

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

So, do Nets have 2 picks in 2012 or is it just 2 future picks in general?


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## GrandKenyon6

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

They have their own and Houston's which is lottery protected I believe.


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## eddymac

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Not the same. The Paul trade was nixed because Stern (and I don't agree with him) deemed it to be grossly unfair and against the best interests of basketball, not because Paul dictated where he wanted to go. Did Paul even dictate where he wanted to go? That's unclear. Anyway, it was nixed because it was unfair.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not true. The commissioner can veto any trade that he deems is against the best interests of basketball.


Outside of this Chris Paul situation when was the last time Stern vetoed a trade? Stern in a sense owns the Hornets so he could nix s trade if he wants to.


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## Blue

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> They have their own and Houston's which is lottery protected I believe.


Well then there is no rush to do that deal. I would hold out and try to see what we can get out of the Clippers... Jordan + Minny 1st + Clipper 1st > Nets offer.


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## GrandKenyon6

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Never, which is one reason I think it's unlikely that he would nix a Howard trade if one were to go through. It's almost impossible to argue that a small market team (until next year, anyway) with no history like the Nets getting Howard would have the same effect on the NBA as a team with a history of getting whatever it wants like the Lakers would in getting Chris Paul.


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## GrandKenyon6

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Blu said:


> Well then there is no rush to do that deal. I would hold out and try to see what we can get out of the Clippers... Jordan + Minny 1st + Clipper 1st > Nets offer.


That's true, but it takes two to tango. If Howard makes it known he wants to be a Net and won't re-sign with the Clippers, they have no incentive to do that trade.


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## Blue

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Tru. Im really hoping NJ is just his top choice, and not his ONLY choice...


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## seifer0406

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I'm hoping that Dwight goes to LAC as well. Dwight + Griffin is much more entertaining than Dwight + Deron Williams and scrubs.


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

In one of the deepest drafts in recent memory, this is Orlando's best shot at starting over. Lopez is a decent player, the picks should yield something good.


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## byrondarnell66

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



seifer0406 said:


> I'm hoping that Dwight goes to LAC as well. *Dwight + Griffin is much more entertaining than Dwight + Deron Williams and scrubs*.


Yeah for a dunk contest maybe. You still need someone to pass you the ball, where Clippers guards are "suspect" at doing that. Deron is better than any guard on the Clips by a longshot. I think Deron and Howard would be a nasty combo with the nets. Those 2 alone is enought to get you a playoff spot.


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## byrondarnell66

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



seifer0406 said:


> I'm hoping that Dwight goes to LAC as well. *Dwight + Griffin is much more entertaining than Dwight + Deron Williams and scrubs*.


Yeah for a dunk contest maybe. You still need someone to pass you the ball, where Clippers guards are "suspect" at doing that. Deron is better than any guard on the Clips by a longshot. I think Deron and Howard would be a nasty combo with the nets. Those 2 alone is enought to get you a playoff spot. The Clippers talent level is not all that great either.


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## Blue

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Dont get me wrong. I would LOVE to see a Deron-Howard combination. I just dont really like the pieces NJ has to offer...


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I hope Stern doesn't let this diva dictate where he gets traded either


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Wish it wasn't Broussard saying the deal is close


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## Dre

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

The Paul situation ruined it. You see how fast the wheels turned on this after the Lakers went belly up? The momentum was there for the Lakers to flip Bynum and some more for him by the middle of next week until Stern and the 27 bitches blocked it at the rim. 

Dwight said forget that and pointed to Brooklyn on the map. 

Stern had enough technical backing with the Ownership situation to get away with the Paul rejection in a lot of people's eyes...but he has final say over everything, so this isn't different. Dwight will probably get his way because he's not joining a super team, but anyone else in the future looking to wheel and deal like that should look out. 

It's about to be a "basketball reasons" crusade against more Knicks and Heat


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

NBA can't stop this deal. Last I checked Prokhorov and Rich De Vos sign the checks for the Nets and the Magic.


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## Blue

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I dont want to see Dwight in a laker uniform. I would probably support him anywhere he goes EXCEPT for the Lakers. And I like the Lakers right now, so it's not cuz i hate the Lakers, i just dont think they deserve him. They dont have the best assets, and plus they've been handed their fair share of bunny's over the years. Would rather see a super team form and support him anywhere else but there...


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## eddymac

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Blu said:


> Dont get me wrong. I would LOVE to see a Deron-Howard combination. I just dont really like the pieces NJ has to offer...


The nets are taking turkey glue though.


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Dre said:


> It's about to be a "basketball reasons" crusade against more Knicks and Heat


Which is exactly what the NBA needs before 26 of their franchises are completely irrelevent


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Please, players teaming up has been happening since the beginning of time.

The NBA is delusional if they think they can stop this.


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Lol the guy complaining about super teams didn't have a problem with Ray going to Boston.


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Game3525 said:


> Please, players teaming up has been happening since the beginning of time.
> 
> The NBA is delusional if they think they can stop this.


It needs to be done via free agency. That's the point of free agency. These guys should not be able to walk up to their GM's and say "Trade me to New Jersey". I haven't seen it work that way in any other sport and we shouldn't tolerate it here


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



HB said:


> Lol the guy complaining about super teams didn't have a problem with Ray going to Boston.


Ray never wanted to be traded. Presti came in, took over, and made a terrible move all on his own.

Paul and Howard have specifically asked for trades to certain teams. The franchises trading him don't even have the opportunity to take the best deal on the table


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Marcus13 said:


> It needs to be done via free agency. That's the point of free agency. These guys should not be able to walk up to their GM's and say "Trade me to New Jersey". I haven't seen it work that way in any other sport and we shouldn't tolerate it here


The owners don't have to give in to the players demands, if they are so upset about they can keep the Dwight Howards of the world and get nothing.


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## 29380

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



> daldridgetnt Magic contemplating filing tampering charges against two teams for illegal contact w/ Dwight Howard. Story up soon on NBA.com.


http://twitter.com/daldridgetnt


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

LA Lakers!!!


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Knicks4life said:


> http://twitter.com/daldridgetnt


Thank God.

These problems are really coming to full exposure now and that's when it will finally be dealt with


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## Bogg

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Marcus13 said:


> Ray never wanted to be traded. Presti came in, took over, and made a terrible move all on his own.


Moving Ray Allen was undoubtedly the right move. Bottoming out with draft picks and cap space turned the Thunder into Finals contenders before Durant's rookie contract was even up.


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## Dissonance

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Only Marcus13 would say moving Ray Allen was terrible move by a rebuilding team needing more flexibility and another high pick.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

They're saying the two teams involved in tampering are the Nets and Rockets.


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Damn, I was thinking Lakers and Celtics.


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Dissonance said:


> Only Marcus13 would say moving Ray Allen was terrible move by a rebuilding team needing more flexibility and another high pick.


Nah; that Sonics team would have had as good of a chance to come out of the West as anybody before the move


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## Dissonance

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Marcus13 said:


> Nah; that Sonics team would have had as good of a chance to come out of the West as anybody before the move


lol no. They were headed in opposite direction. They were going young. What OKC has been able to do since, they made the right move clearly.


Ray got a title in Boston, let it go.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



> Wow! RT @Chris_Broussard Dwight Howard met with NJ owner Mikhail Prokhorov & GM Billy King Thurs in Miami. Orlando was unaware if meeting.


Yikes


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Damn, that is pretty bad.


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## Dissonance

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Looks like any trade involving those two will be blocked now too lol.


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## eddymac

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

This is the Nets of course the deal wouldn't have happened.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

If the Nets are found to have been tampering, what kind of penalties will they incur?


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Draft picks will be taking away I know that for sure.


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## HKF

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Looks like D-Will is gone. Nets just pulled a "written agreement with Joe Smith" Glen Taylor type of a move. Dumb.


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/nets/2011/12/source-nets-closing-in-on-top-free-agent-nene-0

Those charges have to be true, they won't have room left for Dwight.

Incompetence thy name is Billy King.


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



HKF said:


> Looks like D-Will is gone. Nets just pulled a "written agreement with Joe Smith" Glen Taylor type of a move. Dumb.


Wow. That may have been a crippling move


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Game3525 said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/nets/2011/12/source-nets-closing-in-on-top-free-agent-nene-0
> 
> Those charges have to be true, they won't have room left for Dwight.
> 
> Incompetence thy name is Billy King.


They couldn't be making the signing, planning to send him to Orlando?

Just curious.


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## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Marcus13 said:


> Nah; that Sonics team would have had as good of a chance to come out of the West as anybody before the move


*** no name calling ***


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## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

VETO


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## HKF

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Nets about to give Nene 4 years/70 million. Hmm, not sure about this move. That's a lot of coin. I thought it was going to be closer to Chandler's salary.


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## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

That's not very polite;; but I guess I can understand after having the best point guard in the NBA waved in front of your face.


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## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I'm a Celtics fan, genius.


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## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Floods said:


> I'm a Celtics fan, genius.


I have been disagreeing with Marcus all morning long but you can do it with respect, floods, ok?


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## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Brian said:


> This is seriously the happiest I've been in a long time.


Cool.

How you feeling now, Brian?


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## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

:2ti:


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## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

He's feeling like they just signed Travis Outlaw all over again!


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## Vuchato

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

League source says report about meeting in Miami between Prokhorov, King and Dwight Howard is not correct.

I'd trust Bondy over Broussard


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## eddymac

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Vuchato said:


> League source says report about meeting in Miami between Prokhorov, King and Dwight Howard is not correct.
> 
> I'd trust Bondy over Broussard


Thank God


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## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Vuchato said:


> League source says report about meeting in Miami between Prokhorov, King and Dwight Howard is not correct.
> 
> I'd trust Bondy over Broussard


Who is Bondy?


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## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d9u5ekl

Throw in some picks and make it happen...


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## Vuchato

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Jamel Irief said:


> Who is Bondy?


Probably the top Nets beat writer now that Iannazzone's covering the Knicks


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## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Now they're saying the Nets and Magic haven't talked about a trade perud.


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Wow just wow....absolutely ****ery

They didnt even need Stern to screw themselves. On the other hand a Deron/Nene/Lopez team is decent.


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## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

WTF I DONT WANT NENE


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## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Brian said:


> WTF I DONT WANT NENE


u will take nene and like it


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## Dissonance

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



thaKEAF said:


> u will take nene and like it


:laugh:


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## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Man this is really ruining having the NBA again for me. I don't even really care about the start of the season anymore. Hopefully this feeling goes away. :sigh:


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I will die of laughter, if Dwight somehow becomes a Laker because the Nets shot themselves in the foot.


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## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Brian said:


> Man this is really ruining having the NBA again for me. I don't even really care about the start of the season anymore. Hopefully this feeling goes away. :sigh:


Maybe Paul and Dwight end up back in LA. Would that make you feel better?


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Dwight said he didn't talk to anyone...the Magic said they haven't filed tampering charges against the Nets. Anyhoo I think they are poisoning the water, just so they won't deal with the Nets. If this dude ends up in LA....man


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## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



HB said:


> Dwight said he didn't talk to anyone...the Magic said they haven't filed tampering charges against the Nets. Anyhoo I think they are poisoning the water, just so they won't deal with the Nets. If this dude ends up in LA....man


It doesn't matter. It's obvious that the Magic are pissed at the Nets and Howard whether the meeting took place or not, and are certainly not going to deal them to the Nets anytime soon.

*Magic have not filed any tampering charges. Yet.*


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## ChosenFEW

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

i dont understand how you want to leave orlando because you cant win... to join a rebuilding team in NJ who is not even going to be in title contention.


its a great move for the nets though. Im not sure its the best move for dwight, especially if hes leaving due to winning problems


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

By that logic, why did Amare leave to go join the Knicks from a Suns team that was one of the top teams in the West? New ownership, top 10 player on board already. Going to new arena. Its a new start for him. Dwight that is.


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## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



ChosenFEW said:


> i dont understand how you want to leave orlando because you cant win... to join a rebuilding team in NJ who is not even going to be in title contention.
> 
> 
> its a great move for the nets though. Im not sure its the best move for dwight, especially if hes leaving due to winning problems


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## ChosenFEW

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



HB said:


> By that logic, why did Amare leave to go join the Knicks from a Suns team that was one of the top teams in the West?


knicks were the only team offering amar'e the amount of money he recieved.... that is why he came to the knicks.


5 yr 100mill uninsured.


i see what youre saying though.... i keep forgeting about D.will.... but I dont think the overall team is going to be championship quality.... and that is the reason he is complaining about orlando.


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

So it wasn't about winning then?


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## ChosenFEW

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

charlie sheen winning? or boston/lakers championships winning?


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## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Being the Knicks, its definitely Sheen.


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## JonMatrix

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



HB said:


> So it wasn't about winning then?


Pretty sure he got recruited by Walsh and D'Antoni on the idea that he would be playing with another superstar at some point. At least that was their pitch. That was supposed to be the whole point of NY dumping salary from 2007-2010, to get superstars to play there.

But was it strictly about winning? Probably not. Robert Sarver wouldn't offer him 5 years. I believe he only would agree to offer him a 3 year deal. Chosen is right about the contract, the Knicks were the only team to offer him a full 5 year, $100 million dollar contract. I don't know if any other offer was even close.

Anyways, back to Dwight. He was incredibly stupid for meeting with the Nets behind Orlando's back. Sounds like the meeting happened, and now everybody is doing damage control to keep this out of the press. He'll probably end up in LA once the restructured Chris Paul trade goes through. But it will have to wait, because if they ship Dwight there now, there's no way in hell Stern or one of the disgruntled owners let the Paul trade happen.


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## mjm1

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



JonMatrix said:


> Anyways, back to Dwight. He was incredibly stupid for meeting with the Nets behind Orlando's back. Sounds like the meeting happened, and now everybody is doing damage control to keep this out of the press. He'll probably end up in LA once the restructured Chris Paul trade goes through. But it will have to wait, because if they ship Dwight there now, there's no way in hell Stern or one of the disgruntled owners let the Paul trade happen.


1.) the fact that the magic DID NOT file tampering charges against the nets leads me to believe that no meeting ever took place. Believe me, Prokhorov and King aren't foolish enough to break league rules and lose draft picks over this. 

2.) the "disgruntled" owners did not kill the trade, stern killed the trade. it was a purely basketball related decision. it was an illogical trade...for both parties.


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



mjm1 said:


> 1.) the fact that the magic DID NOT file tampering charges against the nets leads me to believe that no meeting ever took place. Believe me, Prokhorov and King aren't foolish enough to break league rules and lose draft picks over this.
> 
> 2.) the "disgruntled" owners did not kill the trade, stern killed the trade. it was a purely basketball related decision. it was an illogical trade...for both parties.


Lmao.

People still believe that "basketball reasons" excuse.


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## mjm1

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Game3525 said:


> Lmao.
> 
> People still believe that "basketball reasons" excuse.


I'm tired of all the BS conspiracy theories claiming that the owners don't want to see the Lakers be successful. Sorry, thats not the case.


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## 29380

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



> The agent for Dwight Howard, Dan Fegan, tells Y! Sports that Orlando has given Howard permission to talk to three teams.


http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



mjm1 said:


> I'm tired of all the BS conspiracy theories claiming that the owners don't want to see the Lakers be successful. Sorry, thats not the case.


Dan Gilbert's letter says otherwise.


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

The Magic should troll Dwight and list the Bobcats, Bucks, and Cavaliers as the three choices.


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## Hibachi!

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Thanks Woj. What ****ing three teams?!


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## mjm1

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



Hibachi! said:


> Thanks Woj. What ****ing three teams?!


Chris Mannix tweeting that the Nets are one of the three teams! LOL


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## Vuchato

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Story to come on SI.com, but Orlando CEO Alex Martins disputes the claim of Dwight Howard's agent that permission was given to talk to teams

So either the Magic's CEO or Dwight's Agent is out of the loop, wrong, or lying, or in other words, what the hell


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## 29380

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



> Orlando PR man Joel Glass calls to inform that D. Howard's agent now has permission to speak w/ Lakers, Nets, & Mavs about possible trade.


http://twitter.com/#!/sam_amick


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## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

:gopray:


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## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

I am cautiously optimistic.........


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## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



mjm1 said:


> Chris Mannix tweeting that the Nets are one of the three teams! LOL


That's why they pay him the big bucks.

Idk, Nets would need another guy after Howard before I label them contenders. Dunno who fits the bill though.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Morrow would become a lot more efficient and Marshon Brooks is supposed to be quite the scorer.

David West would be awesome next to Dwight with D-Will feeding him the ball.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

Switch West for Nene. A Deron-Nene-Dwight team is pretty decent. I know they say teams like the Mavs and Lakers are also in the running, but what do those teams have to offer the Magic?


----------



## Dissonance

*re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



JonMatrix said:


> Pretty sure he got recruited by Walsh and D'Antoni on the idea that he would be playing with another superstar at some point. At least that was their pitch. That was supposed to be the whole point of NY dumping salary from 2007-2010, to get superstars to play there.
> 
> But was it strictly about winning? Probably not. Robert Sarver wouldn't offer him 5 years. I believe he only would agree to offer him a 3 year deal. Chosen is right about the contract, the Knicks were the only team to offer him a full 5 year, $100 million dollar contract. I don't know if any other offer was even close.


Yeah, seen conflicting reports on the money #'s but PHX offer was 3-yrs/56-71M guaranteed out of 5-yr/96-99M deal. Last 2 yrs became guaranteed if he played certain amount of mins/games.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

It's breaking news, I will have to get a link up soon.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



> *Marc Stein* @ESPNSteinLine
> 
> RT @JoshuaBRobbins: #Orlando #Magic GM Otis Smith tells @OrlandoSentinel that Dwight Howard has requested a trade: ht.ly/7Vl9D


...


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...ard-trade-magic-1211-20111210,0,3107502.story


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



> Dwight Howard has told the Orlando Magic that he wants to be traded, Magic General Manager Otis Smith told the Orlando Sentinel Saturday afternoon.
> 
> Smith said Howard has made the request twice in separate conversations since Monday.
> 
> Dan Fegan, Howard’s agent, didn’t immediately return a phone message for comment.
> 
> Smith emphasized that the Magic want to keep Howard long-term, and he added that Howard and his camp haven’t told the team that he definitely will not remain with the franchise. Indeed, Smith repeated what Magic officials have said for days: that the team will make every effort to keep the All-NBA First Team center.
> 
> “We wouldn’t be who we are if we don’t take a look around all 29 teams and try to make the best deal for the Orlando Magic,” Smith said.
> 
> “He can have his list of teams that he would like to go to, and we’ve probably got a few on our list of teams that we would like. But at the end of the day, we want him here and we want him in a Magic uniform for his career. With that said, we’re going to make the best possible deal that we can make if we have to trade him.”
> 
> On Friday, Smith gave Howard’s camp permission to have contact with officials from three teams — the Dallas Mavericks, the Los Angeles Lakers and the New Jersey Nets — and seek a trade.
> 
> After the Magic completed their first training-camp practice Friday, Howard was asked what his long-term plans are. He mostly evaded the questions.
> 
> Asked if he can see himself staying with the Magic for the entire 2011-12 season, he responded: “As of right now, I’m here. Like I’ve said, that’s the only thing that matters, and that’s it.”
> 
> Howard is participating today in the Magic's second training-camp practice, which started at 4 p.m.
> 
> Smith said he hasn’t decided for certain that he will trade Howard before the March 15 trade deadline, but keeping Howard past that point has an enormous risk that could set the Magic back for years and would evoke memories of how Shaquille O’Neal left the Magic for the Lakers after the 1995-96 season.
> 
> If he remains with the Magic after the deadline, Howard would have no incentive to agree to a sign-and-trade deal, and if he were to depart as an unrestricted free agent, the Magic would be left with no compensation for one of the top players in the sport.
> 
> Smith also said he could trade Howard to a team not on Howard’s list. But any team not on Howard’s list would be taking a risk that Howard would not re-sign there long-term; that risk likely will limit the quality of those teams’ offers.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-dwight-howard-trade-magic-1211-20111210,0,3107502.story


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*








Gonna happen.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



> Dwight Howard has requested that the Orlando Magic trade him to the New Jersey Nets, league sources tell Y! Sports.


http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/145639584053727232


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*

TAKE THAT! TAKE THAT! TAKE THAT!

Okay to be honest, just glad he isn't going to LA and of course he is coming to the Nets.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade From The Magic*



HB said:


> TAKE THAT! TAKE THAT! TAKE THAT!
> 
> Okay to be honest, just glad he isn't going to LA and of course he is coming to the Nets.


I told you HB, wanted to see you post "sports sham."

Why haven't you done it yet?


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Because the NBA does not own the Magic or the Nets....and no one in their right minds will say the league favors the Nets. The Lakers and the Knicks on the other hand...


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



HB said:


> Because the NBA does not own the Magic or the Nets....and no one in their right minds will say the league favors the Nets. The Lakers and the Knicks on the other hand...


You are absolutely nonsensical and totally emotional.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

lol...you have Chris now. Everything is alright


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



HB said:


> lol...you have Chris now. Everything is alright


Nothing has been determined. And Otis Smith is already on record he is going to do what is best for the Orlando Magic, and not Dwight Howard.

And sorry to say for you, Bynum is a better choice than Lopez. So we'll have to see how this all shakes out, but as of right now, the Lakers and the Nets are still the same as they were on Thursday.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Lakers dont have anything else besides Bynum. Nets have all those picks, some young players and of course Brook to trade to the Magic. So no, the Lakers do not have more to offer.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



HB said:


> Lakers dont have anything else besides Bynum. Nets have all those picks, some young players and of course Brook to trade to the Magic. So no, the Lakers do not have more to offer.


Who specifically can they add to Lopez to sweeten the deal?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

He'll change his mind once the Paul trade goes through....


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

If I were the Magic, I'd ask for their young guys like Brooks and Damion James in addition to Lopez. Picks too. Probably Farmar :whoknows:


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> He'll change his mind once the Paul trade goes through....


The buzz around L.A. has been that Paul and Howard are close and that Howard was waiting for the trade to be consummated in Los Angeles first before he was going to choose (keep in mind he really doesn't have a choice since he is still under contract).

However, this latest news is contradicting that theory.

We'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out. There is supposed to be a detailed story coming out about this soon on Y! Sports.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_howard_requests_trade_magic_nets_121011

Both teams are in the hunt, according to the story, but it appears the Nets do have the upper hand, because Howard for some reason doesn't want to follow the same career-path as Shaquille O'Neal.

Go figure.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



> . “@KBergCBS: [email protected] confirms that Dwight Howard requested trade to Nets. But a person involved in Howard chase cautions not to count out Lakers yet.”





> .“@KBergCBS: The person familiar with Howard's thinking said the All-Star center still views L.A. as the best fit for his off-court pursuits.”


 ..


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Dwight has the potential to A-Rod Shaq's legacy in LA.

There are still many people bitter about the big fella's departure.

So I don't see what the fear is.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Here is a pretty good update as to how everything looks at the present time:

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/33780584


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



HB said:


> If I were the Magic, I'd ask for their young guys like Brooks and Damion James in addition to Lopez. Picks too. Probably Farmar :whoknows:


:laugh:

You couldn't get Terrence Williams back for those players outside of Lopez.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Ron said:


> The buzz around L.A. has been that Paul and Howard are close and that Howard was waiting for the trade to be consummated in Los Angeles first before he was going to choose (keep in mind he really doesn't have a choice since he is still under contract).
> 
> However, this latest news is contradicting that theory.
> 
> We'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out. There is supposed to be a detailed story coming out about this soon on Y! Sports.


Probably Shaq's book playing a part... he called out Howard for biting his style.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

We'll see...maybe you haven't noticed but next year' draft is one of the deepest in recent memory. Of course Lakers fans would think injury prone Bynum is gold.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



HB said:


> We'll see...maybe you haven't noticed but next year' draft is one of the deepest in recent memory. Of course Lakers fans would think injury prone Bynum is gold.


But the Nets pick wouldn't be lottery with Dwight right?

I didn't say anything about Bynum, James and Brooks suck and Farmar would struggle to get past Duhon and Nelson in the rotation. Maybe if you threw in Johan Petro.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Jamel Irief said:


> But the Nets pick wouldn't be lottery with Dwight right?
> 
> I didn't say anything about Bynum, James and Brooks suck and Farmar would struggle to get past Duhon and Nelson in the rotation. Maybe if you threw in Johan Petro.


Whatever deal the Nets send to the Magic starts with Brook Lopez. I think the picks are gone too, and if I were the Magic I'd ask for Brooks too. Its a steep price, but they are already looking good with all those assets.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Jamel Irief said:


> But the Nets pick wouldn't be lottery with Dwight right?
> 
> I didn't say anything about Bynum, James and Brooks suck and Farmar would struggle to get past Duhon and Nelson in the rotation. Maybe if you threw in Johan Petro.


Yeah, NJ doesn't really have a better package then LA.

In fact, Dallas has the best offer of the three teams, I believe they can offer a package including Kidd and Terry and next summer they come off the cap for Orlando.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Why not just wait for the guy to be a FA then? 

Thought that was what the Mavs and LA want


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Why wait if you can get him now, if Dallas can snag Howard, then they have a better chance of getting Deron next year.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

They cant


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



HB said:


> Whatever deal the Nets send to the Magic starts with Brook Lopez. I think the picks are gone too, and if I were the Magic I'd ask for Brooks too. Its a steep price, but they are already looking good with all those assets.


Marshon Brooks is not some stellar prospect. He has about as much trade value as Courtney Lee did. So really you want to trade Lopez, Courtney Lee, Terrence Williams and a pick between 15-23 for Dwight Howard and say the Magic would be stupid to pass on that for Andrew Bynum?


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Heh we are talking about the same Bynum that goes down EVERY season...yeah I'll do that trade. Take the pick, take the young player and one of the best young centers as opposed to the one good center with bad knees. Yup!


----------



## sonicFLAME6

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

I agree with HB. I'd take Lopez before I would take a guy that might end up like Roy and Oden because of his knees. Knees just don't heal overnight.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Lopez to ATL / Josh Smith to Orl as a 3 teamer do anything for anyone?


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Andrew bynums fame > Andrew bynums game


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Lopez to ATL / Josh Smith to Orl as a 3 teamer do anything for anyone?


Yeah, it makes me :lol:.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Andrew bynums fame > Andrew bynums game


Are you an alias for HB?

Gonna have to check out those IP addresses again...


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

David Aldridge 
@dman4life RT Why is third team needed when NJ is under the cap?>> Issue is assets, not cap. Orlando not interested in just Lopez/picks.

NJ better find a third team.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

If Bynum is so good why are they dying to get Dwight?


I' want the massive upgrade. I've admitted Lopez isn't a #1 option and too passive on Help D. Dwight as a defensive anchor is worth 15 points a game in that area. I won't get into Lopez's rebounding, I assume hope the dip was addressed(and ignored)earlier

But Bynum has some undeserved elite rep. Are we talking about the same Bynum who's always injured, has a bad attitude, big contract, and no post moves. He doesn't bring the ball down low and cleans up around the rim, andrew bynums ate everywhere. 

Defensive stopper that got shat on by Lopez. That doesn't happen to Dwight. I'd rather have Noah than Bynum


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Forget Bynum lol his true value lies with the Lakers. They know how to manage injury prone big men. It seems a third team needs to be involved. Is Morey still feeling generous?


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Game3525 said:


> David Aldridge
> @dman4life RT Why is third team needed when NJ is under the cap?>> Issue is assets, not cap. Orlando not interested in just Lopez/picks.
> 
> NJ better find a third team.


One would think the opportunity to shave a decent amount of money off their cap would appeal to them.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> If Bynum is so good why are they dying to get Dwight?
> 
> 
> I' want the massive upgrade. I've admitted Lopez isn't a #1 option and too passive on Help D. Dwight as a defensive anchor is worth 15 points a game in that area. I won't get into Lopez's rebounding, I assume hope the dip was addressed(and ignored)earlier
> 
> But Bynum has some undeserved elite rep. Are we talking about the same Bynum who's always injured, has a bad attitude, big contract, and no post moves. He doesn't bring the ball down low and cleans up around the rim, andrew bynums ate everywhere.
> 
> Defensive stopper that got shat on by Lopez. That doesn't happen to Dwight. I'd rather have Noah than Bynum


I don't know because Dwight is a hall of fame player, and Andrew Bynum isn't.:sarcasm:

The Lakers would be stupid not to call if Dwight is available.

Anyway, Bynum's contract expires the same time as Lopez, and he does have potential to be a 20/10 guy. Also, Drew was the main reason why the team's defense was excellent in the 2nd half of the season, he really was our defensive anchor

Now, I don't think he is the greatest thing since slice bread, but he is a good player who does have upside.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Otis isn't reading this. I'm not hyping anything it's just the truth(that's why I'm glad Chicago apparently isn't in this.)


Everything about Bynum is trending down. He'll probably ask out of Orlando anyway. He's got a Jermaine Oneal career path all mapped out.

I don't know for sure what Lopez is yet but I know he'll play 82, give you 20 points regardless of the help around him, get 8 rebounds if healthy, and work hard.


----------



## Adam

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Not sure about the 8 rebounds.


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Lol Brook got 6 rebounds in 35+ minutes a game last season. That's HORRIBLE.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Otis isn't reading anybody this. I'm not hyping anything it's just the truth(that's why I'm glad Chicago apparently isn't in this.)
> 
> 
> Everything about Bynum is trending down. He'll probably ask out of Orlando anyway. He's got a Jermaine Oneal career path all mapped out.
> 
> I don't know for sure what Lopez is yet but I know he'll play 82, give you 20 points regardless of the help around him, get 8 rebounds if healthy, and work hard.


Drew averaged 18/10 when Pau was out during the start of the 09-10 and he is light years a better rebounder and defender then Lopez. Neither one of them are franchise changing players, but Drew is a high reward/low risk player, if he works out great, if he doesn't he is off the books after next year and the Magic get cap space.

Also why would Drew ask out of Orlando, he wants his own team and he is never going to get that with Kobe around.


----------



## hobojoe

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

I would much rather get Bynum than Lopez. I don't want any part of Lopez, personally.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Adam said:


> Not sure about the 8 rebounds.


You're right. It was 8.6 rpg the last time he was healthy

In 6 season Bynum only topped that twice


----------



## NOFX22

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Mavs, Bulls, and Clippers will pursue D Howard as well!


----------



## Blue

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Bulls and Clippers have the most to offer imo.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

They are not in the running.

It is only NJ and LA, with NJ as the favorite.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

I'm glad they're out of if. They got some great assets.

Is Derrick Rose secretly a sandy vag?


----------



## NOFX22

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

The Celtics, Bulls and Clippers are expected to aggressively pursue Dwight Howard, who has requested a trade from the Magic.

Orlando has given Howard's agent Dan Fegan permission to speak to the Nets, Mavericks and Lakers about Howard.

Howard is eligible to become a free agent in 2012 and while the Magic haven't given up on retaining him, they do not want to lose him without compensation in return.

Via Adrian Wojnarowski/Yahoo! Sports


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

I stand corrected then.

Magic are shopping Dwight Howard beyond just the teams of his choice

- Brian Schmitz

There is no doubt Chicago and the Clippers have better assets then us.


----------



## 29380

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*


----------



## TheAnswer

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

D12 handled that like a boss.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Lmao, do people realize how much of a loser they look by attack Howard on twitter.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Lmao at bynum being low risk high reward


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

How is he not?

If he doesn't work out the team doesn't have to pick up his option after this season.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Cause there is a huge chance of him "not working out" and then they would've given away the best defensive player in the world today for nothing? Brook Lopez + picks an possibly damion James or marshon Brooks is a much better package.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Brian said:


> Cause there is a huge chance of him "not working out" and then they would've given away the best defensive player in the world today for nothing? Brook Lopez + picks an possibly damion James or marshon Brooks is a much better package.


Which doesn't hurt Orlando since they will be rebuilding since Dwight gone. 

Bynum would be a risk if he was a player signed for 4-5 years with his injury history, but for a guy who basically playing on a one year deal, Orlando isn't really taking a huge gamble.

If he works out, they have a potential all-star center, if not 16 million comes of the book this summer.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Yes but considering the other offers on table (not just from the nets either, the clippers could put together an insanely good package too), trading for an oft injured Bynum doesn't make any sense.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

I never said the Lakers had the best package, only it isn't any worse then NJ.

The Bulls and the Clippers have the best to offer, but it all depends whether Howard wants to sign an extension with them.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Xcept it is worse because Bynum will forever be an injury risk until the day he retires


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

A risk, but he also has a higher ceiling then Lopez.


----------



## onelakerfan

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Here is the bottom Line.

Is Howard and D Will better than, Wade, LBJ and Bosh, or Amare, Carmelo and Chandler, or Pierce, KG, Allen and Rando, or Rose, Boozer, noah, deng
No, No, No and No, I don't even think they will be better than Atlanta with that combo, East is stacked.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



onelakerfan said:


> Here is the bottom Line.
> 
> Is Howard and D Will better than, Wade, LBJ and Bosh, or Amare, Carmelo and Chandler, or Pierce, KG, Allen and Rando, or Rose, Boozer, noah, deng
> No, No, No and No, I don't even think they will be better than Atlanta with that combo, East is stacked.


Smh


----------



## Maravilla

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

I'm no fan of Lopez... but going on 7 years in the NBA.. it is safe to say that any player just is what he is.. and throw out the word upside.


----------



## onelakerfan

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Brian said:


> Smh


ha? 

so you agree?


----------



## onelakerfan

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

I actually like bynum. if he was not injury prone i would not trade him at all and he would have been better than howard if he did not get injured so many times. he plays with fear that he will get injured again, so it does effect his confidence.

Actually, bynum has better offence than howard, but the D is the area that howard is great at.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> You're right. It was 8.6 rpg the last time he was healthy
> 
> In 6 season Bynum only topped that twice


ZING!


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Btw aren't you guys sick of the 'whole' if he is healthy thing. It was used to death trying to defend Oden. These guys are what they are....and that's injury prone risky big men. Any team taking them should factor that into the equation.


----------



## Dissonance

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



onelakerfan said:


> I actually like bynum. if he was not injury prone i would not trade him at all *and he would have been better than howard if he did not get injured so many times.* he plays with fear that he will get injured again, so it does effect his confidence.
> 
> Actually, bynum has better offence than howard, but the D is the area that howard is great at.



Yeah, that's why he's not better than D12...lol


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



onelakerfan said:


> Here is the bottom Line.
> 
> Is Howard and D Will better than, Wade, LBJ and Bosh, or Amare, Carmelo and Chandler, or Pierce, KG, Allen and Rando, or Rose, Boozer, noah, deng
> No, No, No and No, I don't even think they will be better than Atlanta with that combo, East is stacked.


They're definitely still behind the Heat, Bulls, and Knicks (maybe that one's a push). They would need a third guy, but I have no idea who fits the bill or how they'd get him after acquiring Dwight.


----------



## futuristxen

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

If they keep Outlaw I think he'd be a good third guy. Relative to the third guy for the Knicks being Tyson Chandler.


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Surely, you don't mean Travis Outlaw? He sucks.


----------



## Pay Ton

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



HKF said:


> Surely, you don't mean Travis Outlaw? He sucks.


Future's talking about Bo Outlaw.


----------



## Blue

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Dwight makes everyone around him better. Him and Dwill would be the new Stockton-Malone, Penny-Shaq.


----------



## futuristxen

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



HKF said:


> Surely, you don't mean Travis Outlaw? He sucks.


He could be a good role player to have for a Howard/Deron nucleus. Better than say fat World Peace. If they keep Marrow as well you're starting to cook with fire.


----------



## Luke

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Brook Lopez isn't a very good basketball player. I'd rather roll the dice on someone who could play at an allstar level when healthy than a center who grabs six rebounds a game.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

Are you people nuts? A Howard/Williams combination is far better than the Knicks' team and is better than the Bulls as well. You people don't understand how good those two players are and how well they would play with each other.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

No man, we are worse than the Hawks. :2ti:

We'd destroy the Celtics too at this point.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Brian said:


> We'd destroy the Celtics too at this point.


:lol:

Really? :laugh:


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Ron said:


> :lol:
> 
> Really? :laugh:


You don't believe that a team with D-Will and Dwight would be better than Boston Geriatrics? I like the Celtics, they're like my second team, but they're done.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*

I think it's hilarious that people are talking about Damion James and Marshon Brooks in a package for Dwight Howard like it's supposed to mean something. These are late first round pick role players we're talking about, marginal players.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Brian said:


> You don't believe that a team with D-Will and Dwight would be better than Boston Geriatrics? I like the Celtics, they're like my second team, but they're done.


You wrote "at this point."

What, you counting your chickens before they hatch? Last time I looked, Howard was an Orlando Magic.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



BlakeJesus said:


> I think it's hilarious that people are talking about Damion James and Marshon Brooks in a package for Dwight Howard like it's supposed to mean something. These are late first round pick role players we're talking about, marginal players.


James is already good defender and a really good rebounder at the 3, he spent last season buried on the bench behind Outlaw for some reason :nonono:. MarShon Brooks should've went higher in the draft last year - he was a freaking steal for us. Dude can straight up put the ball in the basket. How can you call him a marginal player if he hasn't even played a game in the NBA?


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Ron said:


> You wrote "at this point."
> 
> What, you counting your chickens before they hatch? Last time I looked, Howard was an Orlando Magic.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



> NYDNInterNets Stefan Bondy
> Deron says he and Dwight have maintained contact as friends. Asked bout Dwight reportedly preferring Nets, Deron: "that makes me happy."


:yep: greatest 1-2 punch


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Brian said:


> :yep: greatest 1-2 punch


Seriously, you think Orlando really wants to deal with NJ right now? You do realize that the Magic are the ones who put out the press release that says Howard told them he wants to go to the Nets. You don't see any underlying effort on Orlando's part to dirty up Howard with that action?

Orlando will decide what their best trade deal is. If the Lakers are so moronic as to deal away both Bynum and Gasol for Howard, they will snap that up in a New York minute.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Howard*



Ron said:


> Seriously, you think Orlando really wants to deal with NJ right now? You do realize that the Magic are the ones who put out the press release that says Howard told them he wants to go to the Nets. You don't see any underlying effort on Orlando's part to dirty up Howard with that action?
> 
> Orlando will decide what their best trade deal is. If the Lakers are so moronic as to deal away both Bynum and Gasol for Howard, they will snap that up in a New York minute.


Dude I'm a Nets fan, this might be the most basketball-related fun I get for a while. Think of this as me backing my team in a playoffs matchup or something. If this Dwight thing falls through D-Will will probably leave and I'll be left following Monsta Morrow's PPG stats.

LET ME HAVE THIS.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

*Report: Lakers will not trade Bynum and Gasol for Howard*

Mitch would have had to have a frontal lobotomy in order to go ahead with this deal.

So it will be interesting how the Lakers re-package any deal for Howard at this point, even if they are considering it.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: REPORT: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade To the New Jersey Nets*

Its funny...these guy's AREN'T all-stars. To speak about the "potential" for players who have been in the league for 5 years is also illogical. They are what they are. If your Orlando, you can choose a player who's a defensive stalwart, injury-prone, and has an attitude problem. Or you can choose an offensively skilled center, no games missed due to injury, a poor rebounder, and a marginal defender. New Jersey and LA would have to construct better deals. The Lakers would probably have to include Gasol (something they shouldn't do because it would decimate their front line after trading Odom). The Nets would have to find a third team (something that they probably can't do because they just don't have the assets). If I'm Orlando, I look at what the other 27 teams are offering.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade To the New Jersey Nets*



mjm1 said:


> Its funny...these guy's AREN'T all-stars. To speak about the "potential" for players who have been in the league for 5 years is also illogical. They are what they are. If your Orlando, you can choose a player who's a defensive stalwart, injury-prone, and has an attitude problem. Or you can choose an offensively skilled center, no games missed due to injury, a poor rebounder, and a marginal defender.


Without getting into your questionable opinions about the players in question, the bigger issue for Orlando is getting something rather than nothing later on.

Don't lose focus...its good you aren't the Orlando GM.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: REPORT: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade To the New Jersey Nets*



Ron said:


> Without getting into your questionable opinions about the players in question, the bigger issue for Orlando is getting something rather than nothing later on.
> 
> Don't lose focus...its good you aren't the Orlando GM.


lol, i tried editing my original post before anyone could reply to it. But, here it is again: The Lakers would probably have to include Gasol (something they shouldn't do because it would decimate their front line after trading Odom). The Nets would have to find a third team (something that they probably can't do because they just don't have the assets). If I'm Orlando, I look at what the other 27 teams are offering.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade To the New Jersey Nets*



mjm1 said:


> lol, i tried editing my original post before anyone could reply to it. But, here it is again: The Lakers would probably have to include Gasol (something they shouldn't do because it would decimate their front line after trading Odom). The Nets would have to find a third team (something that they probably can't do because they just don't have the assets). If I'm Orlando, I look at what the other 27 teams are offering.


Of course they should, just because Howard wants to go to NJ or LA doesn't mean Orlando is limited to dealing with just those two teams.

However, Howard does hold something of a stacked deck because he can refuse to sign an extension and force Orlando's hand back to NJ and LA. That's the rub.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: REPORT: Dwight Howard Has Requested A Trade To the New Jersey Nets*



Ron said:


> Of course they should, just because Howard wants to go to NJ or LA doesn't mean Orlando is limited to dealing with just those two teams.
> 
> However, Howard does hold something of a stacked deck because he can refuse to sign an extension and force Orlando's hand back to NJ and LA. That's the rub.


As a biased Nets fan, I'd say go with Lopez. In the end, he wants to go to the lakers or nets, and I can't see anyone (except the Bulls) risking a trade in the hopes that he resigns with them. At least with the Nets deal, they'll get back a 23 year old center who keeps on improving his game, 2 first rounders, and a team that can absorb Turk's contract. If the lakers are stupid enough to trade bynum and gasol, the Magic should pull the trigger.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

wrong thread


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



> WindhorstESPN Brian Windhorst
> In Orlando, just finished talking with Dwight Howard. Said trade demand stemmed from team not acting on his personnel suggestions.
> 
> WindhorstESPN Brian Windhorst
> Howard said he made suggestions on trades/signings for years that were ignored. Said he currently has no relationship w/ GM Otis Smith.


..


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

Not sure who to believe, Dwight may be justifying his departure.......but Otis Smith is a bum.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

Howard isn't the gm. Same shit with Kobe. What's with players these days wanting to make front office decisions? The cavs made moves to make lebron happy and look what that got them.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

LeBron, Wade, and Bosh all honored their contracts.

That's why I have no respect for Carmelo, Howard, and Paul. Especially Carmelo because he knowingly signed a longer deal for more money without the 5th year opt out and then jealously injected himself into LeBron and Wade's free agency because he wanted attention.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

How is it that players can get away with basically threatening to sabotage their team if they don't get traded? It seems like nobody gives a shit that these players have no desire to honor their contracts.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

I agree. As much as I'm praying for Dwight Howard to end up on the Nets, screw these asshole players. There is a reason teams can offer their own players more money than other teams in free agency. Players are not supposed to be able to have their cake and eat it too. It's one or the other. Either take less years and less money to go where you want to as a free agent or stay. There is a reason there is a salary cap and a collective bargaining agreement and these guys want to completely disregard it.

Dirk did it the right way. Finish what you started.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Adam said:


> LeBron, Wade, and Bosh all honored their contracts.
> 
> That's why I have no respect for Carmelo, Howard, and Paul. Especially Carmelo because he knowingly signed a longer deal for more money without the 5th year opt out and then jealously injected himself into LeBron and Wade's free agency because he wanted attention.





Hibachi! said:


> How is it that players can get away with basically threatening to sabotage their team if they don't get traded? It seems like nobody gives a shit that these players have no desire to honor their contracts.





GrandKenyon6 said:


> I agree. As much as I'm praying for Dwight Howard to end up on the Nets, screw these asshole players. There is a reason teams can offer their own players more money than other teams in free agency. Players are not supposed to be able to have their cake and eat it too. It's one or the other. Either take less years and less money to go where you want to as a free agent or stay. There is a reason there is a salary cap and a collective bargaining agreement and these guys want to completely disregard it.



It's only not honoring your contract if you refuse to practice/play or blatantly dog it until they trade you. How is keeping your employer in the dark as to your future plans, like Lebron or Bosh did, any better than telling your employer "I don't intend to return after my contract is up, it may be in your best interest to make contingency plans"? I guarantee you that if Lebron and Bosh had been honest about their intentions up front the Cavs and Raptors would have gotten a better return than the last pick in the draft and a traded player exception.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Bogg said:


> It's only not honoring your contract if you refuse to practice/play or blatantly dog it until they trade you. How is keeping your employer in the dark as to your future plans, like Lebron or Bosh did, any better than telling your employer "I don't intend to return after my contract is up, it may be in your best interest to make contingency plans"? I guarantee you that if Lebron and Bosh had been honest about their intentions up front the Cavs and Raptors would have gotten a better return than the last pick in the draft and a traded player exception.


LeBron signed for five years and gave them five years. He never promised anything more. With the way teams treat players how can you say he owes them any more than that?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Adam said:


> LeBron signed for five years and gave them five years. He never promised anything more. With the way teams treat players how can you say he owes them any more than that?


I'm not saying he owed them more than that. I also don't see Chris Paul refusing to suit up for the Hornets if he isn't traded, or threatening to be an unproductive distraction over the course of the season. The difference between what Lebron did and what Chris Paul is doing is that Paul's letting his team know he intends to leave well ahead of time, not at the exact moment he leaves. It's NOT Paul refusing to honor a contract, it's the NBA equivalent of giving a two-weeks notice instead of just not showing up one day.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Bogg said:


> I'm not saying he owed them more than that. I also don't see Chris Paul refusing to suit up for the Hornets if he isn't traded, or threatening to be an unproductive distraction over the course of the season. The difference between what Lebron did and what Chris Paul is doing is that Paul's letting his team know he intends to leave well ahead of time, not at the exact moment he leaves. It's NOT Paul refusing to honor a contract, it's the NBA equivalent of giving a two-weeks notice instead of just not showing up one day.


That's not the same.

What you're implying is that the team deserves consideration beyond the years of the contract. That LeBron should be considerate of the team in year six even if he is only signed to year five.

In the real world people honor contracts and give two weeks notice. What you're arguing is different from something real world like giving two weeks notice. You're saying that players need to worry about the future of the team. I don't agree with that. LeBron turned down an extension and never gave them a promise. They could have taken that as enough "notice."

Paul isn't doing anything benevolent. He's driving down his price and wrecking this entire season with the team. Just look at how awful Denver played in Carmelo's zombie year. Compare that to the year with Wade in Miami.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Bogg said:


> It's only not honoring your contract if you refuse to practice/play or blatantly dog it until they trade you. How is keeping your employer in the dark as to your future plans, like Lebron or Bosh did, any better than telling your employer "I don't intend to return after my contract is up, it may be in your best interest to make contingency plans"? I guarantee you that if Lebron and Bosh had been honest about their intentions up front the Cavs and Raptors would have gotten a better return than the last pick in the draft and a traded player exception.


If you tell your team that you intend to leave before the season is over people will say that you're forcing a trade.

There is no perfect way to handle this. It's up to the GM to decipher the situation and do what's best for the team. GMs are paid millions to run teams, it only makes sense that they are the ones responsible when teams aren't run well.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Bogg said:


> I'm not saying he owed them more than that. I also don't see Chris Paul refusing to suit up for the Hornets if he isn't traded, or threatening to be an unproductive distraction over the course of the season. The difference between what Lebron did and what Chris Paul is doing is that Paul's letting his team know he intends to leave well ahead of time, not at the exact moment he leaves. It's NOT Paul refusing to honor a contract, it's the NBA equivalent of giving a two-weeks notice instead of just not showing up one day.


He's only saying that to essentially force a trade, or at the very least, severely increase the likelihood of one.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

I think they wouldn't have been in this situation if Otis had kept Courtney Lee and Hedo the first go round.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Adam said:


> That's not the same.
> 
> What you're implying is that the team deserves consideration beyond the years of the contract. That LeBron should be considerate of the team in year six even if he is only signed to year five.
> 
> In the real world people honor contracts and give two weeks notice. What you're arguing is different from something real world like giving two weeks notice. You're saying that players need to worry about the future of the team. I don't agree with that. LeBron turned down an extension and never gave them a promise. They could have taken that as enough "notice."
> 
> Paul isn't doing anything benevolent. He's driving down his price and wrecking this entire season with the team. Just look at how awful Denver played in Carmelo's zombie year. Compare that to the year with Wade in Miami.


You're hypersensitive about Lebron, aren't you? All I said was that what Chris Paul and Dwight Howard have done is no _worse_ than what Lebron and Bosh did. I never said that Lebron owed it to Cleveland to tell them before the 2009-2010 season that he was leaving, just that if he did they would have gotten a heck of a lot better of a return in a trade. Since you seem to think it better for Chris Paul and Dwight Howard to say nothing about their future intentions and abruptly leave next summer I'll ask you how that's possibly better?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



BlakeJesus said:


> He's only saying that to essentially force a trade, or at the very least, severely increase the likelihood of one.


Well if a GM thinks he's only saying something to force a trade, it's up to the GM to do his job and force the player to blink first. The only way to actually take advantage of the new CBA rules are to not trade the player and dare him to leave $20 million dollars on the table.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Bogg said:


> You're hypersensitive about Lebron, aren't you?


WTF? I'm using LeBron as an example. I'm comparing the different ways to exit. LeBron is irrelevant to my point.

What Paul and Howard are doing is much worse. It's destroying this season for their team and their fans. Look at Wade's last year in Miami. We had a great year. I can't even imagine how miserable it would have been as a fan or an employee for the team if he had demanded a trade. Not notified that he was leaving. Demanded a trade. Big difference in attitudes and commitment.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Adam said:


> WTF? I'm using LeBron as an example. I'm comparing the different ways to exit. LeBron is irrelevant to my point.
> 
> What Paul and Howard are doing is much worse. It's destroying this season for their team and their fans. Look at Wade's last year in Miami. We had a great year. I can't even imagine how miserable it would have been as a fan or an employee for the team if he had demanded a trade. Not notified that he was leaving. Demanded a trade. Big difference in attitudes and commitment.


Yeah, Wade's a great example about a player leaving his team


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

What's funny is we're here talking about players not letting teams know of their intentions as if their intentions are difficult to predict.

When you are the best center in the league entering your prime and your teammates are Hedo Turkoglu/Gilbert Arenas/Jameer Nelson/JJ Redick all signed to long term contracts, chances are you're leaving after your contract is over. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. If you're Otis Smith do you really need Dwight to spell it out for you to see that he's not going to re-sign?


Chris Paul is in the same boat. Best PG entering his prime playing with scrubs. Do you need a psychic to tell you that he's looking to play elsewhere? I mean in both cases the shocker would be if the two actually stayed with their current teams.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Adam said:


> WTF? I'm using LeBron as an example. I'm comparing the different ways to exit. LeBron is irrelevant to my point.
> 
> What Paul and Howard are doing is much worse. It's destroying this season for their team and their fans. Look at Wade's last year in Miami. We had a great year. I can't even imagine how miserable it would have been as a fan or an employee for the team if he had demanded a trade. Not notified that he was leaving. Demanded a trade. Big difference in attitudes and commitment.


You kept acting as if I was attacking what Lebron did. I said nothing bad about what Lebron did, just that what's happening now is no worse.


So your argument is that it's better to keep the team in the dark about any future plans because the unpleasantness of rebuilding can be delayed a year and the fans might get a fun season rooting for a non-contender in the meantime?


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Vuchato said:


> Yeah, Wade's a great example about a player leaving his team


That's a good point. Maybe LeBron didn't tell his team to trade him for value because he wasn't sure he was leaving. More reason why you can't blame him for Cleveland not getting value.


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

I'd trade them both for Howard if they threw in Bass and possibly Meer or something.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

Bass is gone. Traded to the Celtics I believe.


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Bass is gone. Traded to the Celtics I believe.


That's true.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

We'll throw in Hedo.


----------



## BlackNRed

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

Nets fans will flock back to BBF now.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Nets will attempt to sign Arenas if they able to trade for Dwight Howard, source says

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
D12 wanted S Jax &/or M Ellis RT @WindhorstESPN: D12 cites GM Otis Smith refusal to take trade ideas for trade demand:


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



> Dallas is trying to move Rudy Fernandez and Corey Brewer to create more cap space, league sources tell Y!


What reason would they have?



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> To be clear, Dallas has NO cap space. Mavs are trying to those contracts --- Fernandez and Brewer --- off the roster.


Nevermind


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

I don't have a link on this yet, but I heard it on the radio this morning:

Lakers are offering Bynum, the trade exception, and two future no. 1 draft picks to Orlando, but Orlando wants both Bynum and Gasol.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



Ron said:


> I don't have a link on this yet, but I heard it on the radio this morning:
> 
> Lakers are offering Bynum, the trade exception, and two future no. 1 draft picks to Orlando, but Orlando wants both Bynum and Gasol.


Is the trade exception large enough to take back Turkoglu's contract? If it is...the Magic should take the lakers offer.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Requests a trade to Nets; Lakers will not deal both big men for Ho*



Adam said:


> That's a good point. Maybe LeBron didn't tell his team to trade him for value because he wasn't sure he was leaving. More reason why you can't blame him for Cleveland not getting value.


You know what I get real tired of? Do you Adam? You running around turning every ****ing thread into a Lebron thread.

Shut the **** up, and get out of this thread. You're pathetic.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

I don't think it is and they should definitely not accept that offer anyway.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

It does not look to me like LAL has much shot at a Howard deal and if they did it would gut the franchise until after Kobe limped off into the sunset. Honestly I don't see anything I would take unless the Bulls want to jump in and Rose is not going to help Howard. The two of them just would not be a great fit even if Thibs made the defense otherworldly.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

That's probably just a starting point. Don't see why we wouldn't offer Ebank and/or Caracter too.


----------



## Pinball

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

All scrubs. I'd be willing to take Hedo's ugly ass contract as well because he's an excellent big-game player. Of course, our window of opportunity would be very small with an older, unathletic team. Maybe 2-3 of serious contention.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

pretty sure you can't package a trade exceptions with players, unless they changed that in the last CBA


----------



## mjm1

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> That's probably just a starting point. Don't see why we wouldn't offer Ebank and/or Caracter too.


Are you joking? Its gonna be hard to talk the Magic down from Gasol to....Ebank???


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

Our offer doesn't have to be better than Gasol and Bynum. It just has to be better than NewJerseys.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Our offer doesn't have to be better than Gasol and Bynum. It just has to be better than NewJerseys.


Right now, that is not setting the bar very high. As far as I have heard, NJ is offering only Lopez and two picks (and of course, to take Hedo's outrageous contract back). That's not even close to what the Lakers can offer, so that is why we haven't seen anything transpire this weekend.

Orlando is also listening to other teams (not just L.A., Dallas, or N.J.). Bottom line: what would be there rush? The trade deadline is now March 15.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Our offer doesn't have to be better than Gasol and Bynum. It just has to be better than NewJerseys.


Not really. Magic dont have to trade Dwight. Alot of fans, myself included, would rather just rebuild from scratch than be stuck in mediocrity watching a Lopez or Bynum for 5yrs.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



Blu said:


> Not really. Magic dont have to trade Dwight. Alot of fans, myself included, would rather just rebuild from scratch than be stuck in mediocrity watching a Lopez or Bynum for 5yrs.


You have got to be kidding.

Cleveland Cavs south? You really want that for, say, the next five to ten years?

WOW.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

Bynum has a team option after this year.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



Blu said:


> Not really. Magic dont have to trade Dwight. Alot of fans, myself included, would rather just rebuild from scratch than be stuck in mediocrity watching a Lopez or Bynum for 5yrs.


I'll go on record as saying that if the Magic let Dwight walk for nothing they won't get a center better than Bynum for 10 years.

Plus with this trade you unload Hedo's contract, further starting the rebuild. Hell you can either let Bynum walk after this season for nothing just like Dwight will.

So it's Dwight walking with Hedo still there or dumping Hedo and Bynum walking with two #1's in your possesion.

Don't know why I'm posting this when you clearly haven't thought it out.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

Too bad Dwight can only talk to those three teams. I'd love to see the Clippers flip off the Hornets/NBA and put their horses into this race instead. Gordon + MIN's draft pick + plenty of salary relief blows away whatever NJ can offer, and probably trumps the Lakers as well.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*

Dallas and Laker #1's? A real treasure! Lol, Magic have no incentive to trade Dwight to LA for less than value, especially not to the same Lakers who also stole Shaq from us. If we trade him the Lakers, you bet for dam sure we getting fair value or we aren't trading him. No way we except anything less than what the Clipps are offering for Cp3. EGo, Minny 1st, Kaman, +prospects. Lakers offer is much worse than that. Heck what if Clips get CP3, and then decide to flip BGriff for Dwight and be instant contenders? 

That is an option worth doing, not freaking broken down Bynum and two picks in the late 20's. Id rather keep Hedo, lose Dwight, and suck for 3 years and rebuild through the draft the right way with a hope of hitting it big. Than settle for being fringe playoff team for another decade, with no star player, no hope of contention, and little hope of improving big through the draft.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



> *Marc Stein* _@ESPNSteinLine_
> RT @MagicInsider: Possibly stunning development: Dwight Howard softens stance. "This is place I want to be but some things have to change"


This ****ing guy doesn't know what he wants. Jesus H. Christ, make up your mind already.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



Blu said:


> Heck what if Clips get CP3, and then decide to flip BGriff for Dwight and be instant contenders?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



> *Marc Stein* _@ESPNSteinLine_
> RT @WindhorstESPN: After meeting with team, Dwight Howard seemed to re-open door to staying with Magic if there are "changes." Story coming


"Changes," as in, I want to be a player/GM. Howard is out there, man. Do the Lakers really want this nut case on their team?


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

This stuff is WWF.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Ron said:


> "Changes," as in, I want to be a player/GM. Howard is out there, man. Do the Lakers really want this nut case on their team?


Hes gone back to saying "Well maybe I could stay if they try to make us a contender"..... and that makes him a nut job?


Your Lakers fan glasses are clouding your mind today Ronald.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



Blu said:


> Dallas and Laker #1's? A real treasure! Lol, Magic have no incentive to trade Dwight to LA for less than value, especially not to the same Lakers who also stole Shaq from us. If we trade him the Lakers, you bet for dam sure we getting fair value or we aren't trading him. No way we except anything less than what the Clipps are offering for Cp3. EGo, Minny 1st, Kaman, +prospects. Lakers offer is much worse than that. Heck what if Clips get CP3, and then decide to flip BGriff for Dwight and be instant contenders?
> 
> That is an option worth doing, not freaking broken down Bynum and two picks in the late 20's. Id rather keep Hedo, lose Dwight, and suck for 3 years and rebuild through the draft the right way with a hope of hitting it big. Than settle for being fringe playoff team for another decade, with no star player, no hope of contention, and little hope of improving big through the draft.


----------



## scdn

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Howard for Executive of the Year and MVP next year.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



Floods said:


>


BGriff + Clips 1st

*4*

Dwight Howard

That is what it's gonna take. Clippers would have the pieces to contend for another 8yrs and every good FA would want to go there. Nobody wants to take Bynum in after watching Dwight for 7yrs, but maybe if you throw in Pau we would cave into it. Other than that, no thanks. Tank and rebuild. 

Heck look at Cleveland, they got Kyrie Irving and hes probably gonna be better for them long term than any piece they wouldve got in a trade. They will suck for 3-4 more years, but will be better for it and be a more exciting team than for being an average, fringe playoff team over the course of that same time. Heck, I dont even think i really want Pau... BGriff or bust.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> Hes gone back to saying "Well maybe I could stay if they try to make us a contender"..... and that makes him a nut job?
> 
> 
> Your Lakers fan glasses are clouding your mind today Ronald.


Again, you are not paying attention, R-Star.

I have always been a Bynum believer. I can take Howard or leave him. If he comes to the Lakers, that's fine with me, but I much rather have Bynum who has come up through the system. As a matter fact, I much rather have our front court we had last year, but with the stupid Odom trade, that isn't going to happen.

For me, its better to use the trade exception on a player that can somehow take Odom's shoes. But I have no idea who that may be as of yet.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



Blu said:


> BGriff + Clips 1st
> 
> *4*
> 
> Dwight Howard


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Ron said:


> Again, you are not paying attention, R-Star.
> 
> I have always been a Bynum believer. I can take Howard or leave him. If he comes to the Lakers, that's fine with me, but I much rather have Bynum who has come up through the system. As a matter fact, I much rather have our front court we had last year, but with the stupid Odom trade, that isn't going to happen.
> 
> For me, its better to use the trade exception on a player that can somehow take Odom's shoes. But I have no idea who that may be as of yet.


So Bynum, who ripped his shirt off and tried to decapitate a midget...... you want that guy.
But Howard, a guy who said "Hey, maybe I was wrong. After talking to the GM, it looks like things might be headed in the right direction"....... hes a nut case and you want nothing to do with him.


Oh ok. You aren't bitter. This has nothing to do with the Lakers not getting him or Paul. Nope.


Again, come on Ron.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

@Floods Dwight Howard is ready made, and provides the defense that Griffin currently lacks.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Blu said:


> @Floods Dwight Howard is ready made, and provides the defense that Griffin currently lacks.


Stop.

Please.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> So Bynum, who ripped his shirt off and tried to decapitate a midget...... you want that guy.
> But Howard, a guy who said "Hey, maybe I was wrong. After talking to the GM, it looks like things might be headed in the right direction"....... hes a nut case and you want nothing to do with him.
> 
> 
> Oh ok. You aren't bitter. This has nothing to do with the Lakers not getting him or Paul. Nope.
> 
> 
> Again, come on Ron.


Bitter? What the **** are you talking about?

All the Lakers have done this weekend is alienate one of their big men and traded another one away for nothing (so far). I'm okay with Bynum's temper for now, none of us are perfect. Bynum has tremendous upside, and I have always been a Bynum supporter.

Stern is a ****ing idiot and I am enjoying his latest knucklehead decision. Personally, I got nothing against the guy, but it is obvious that he is going to have to retire (very soon).

As far as Howard being a nut goes, you are minimizing the things he is doing and the timing in which he is doing them. Just late last night, he openly criticized Otis Smith and said he doesn't have a relationship with him. Also, at least twice in the last two weeks, he has demanded a trade, and specifically to the Nets. Then just this morning, he has a change of heart.

He is a nut case, a 6-foot-11-inch waffle with 3 liters of syrup dripping off of him. I don't want him on the Lakers. Believe what you want to believe, R-Star, I don't care.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Good.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Ron said:


> Bitter? What the **** are you talking about?
> 
> All the Lakers have done this weekend is alienate one of their big men and traded another one away for nothing (so far). I'm okay with Bynum's temper for now, none of us are perfect. Bynum has tremendous upside, and I have always been a Bynum supporter.
> 
> Stern is a ****ing idiot and I am enjoying his latest knucklehead decision. Personally, I got nothing against the guy, but it is obvious that he is going to have to retire (very soon).
> 
> As far as Howard being a nut goes, you are minimizing the things he is doing and the timing in which he is doing them. Just late last night, he openly criticized Otis Smith and said he doesn't have a relationship with him. Also, at least twice in the last two weeks, he has demanded a trade, and specifically to the Nets. Then just this morning, he has a change of heart.
> 
> He is a nut case, a 6-foot-11-inch waffle with 3 liters of syrup dripping off of him. I don't want him on the Lakers. Believe what you want to believe, R-Star, I don't care.


Again, saying he wants to work things out with his current team makes him a nut case, but Bynum and his midget beating, not to mention his countless other off court problems are fine.

Say whatever you want Ron. Its clear you're up in arms about this because of its Laker ties. You blasted Lebron all of last year. Why is that when you're now defending Chris Pauls rights in a similar situation. Why?

I think its clear to everyone but you (and I assume even you know) that you're mad the Lakers aren't getting these guys.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> Again, saying he wants to work things out with his current team makes him a nut case, but Bynum and his midget beating, not to mention his countless other off court problems are fine.
> 
> Say whatever you want Ron. Its clear you're up in arms about this because of its Laker ties. You blasted Lebron all of last year. Why is that when you're now defending Chris Pauls rights in a similar situation. Why?
> 
> I think its clear to everyone but you (and I assume even you know) that you're mad the Lakers aren't getting these guys.


Did you forget last year you mocked Ron for saying he would rather have Bynum than Dwight? You probably did.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> You blasted Lebron all of last year. Why is that when you're now defending Chris Pauls rights in a similar situation. Why?


Last time I checked, CP3 didn't get on national television and stuck a knife in NOLA by saying, "I am taking my talents to Los Angeles."

And its not the same situation. CP3 is Hornets asset, he is still contractually tied to the team. LBJ was a free agent.

You know me so well, R-Star. It's like...it's like you are inside my mind, knowing everything I think.

Quick: what did I have for breakfast this morning?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> Did you forget last year you mocked Ron for saying he would rather have Bynum than Dwight? You probably did.


No, I didn't. I also didn't forget he changed his tune when it looked like Dwight to LA was a reality this offseason.



Thanks for the contribution to this thread Jamel.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> Did you forget last year you mocked Ron for saying he would rather have Bynum than Dwight? You probably did.


Yeah, I took a beating for that, even on the Laker board.

But R-Star is all about confrontation...he feeds off of it, but its okay with me...he is a BBF legend, unique to this site, and I'm okay with him riding a beer-induced lunch to take me to task (even though its misdirected).


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Ron said:


> Last time I checked, CP3 didn't get on national television and stuck a knife in NOLA by saying, "I am taking my talents to Los Angeles."
> 
> And its not the same situation. CP3 is Hornets asset, he is still contractually tied to the team. LBJ was a free agent.
> 
> You know me so well, R-Star. It's like...it's like you are inside my mind, knowing everything I think.
> 
> Quick: what did I have for breakfast this morning?


:laugh: 

So its worse to leave a team as a FA then it is to demand a team you signed a contract with to trade you?


Wow.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Ron said:


> Yeah, I took a beating for that, even on the Laker board.
> 
> But R-Star is all about confrontation...he feeds off of it, but its okay with me...he is a BBF legend, unique to this site, and I'm okay with him riding a beer-induced lunch to take me to task (even though its misdirected).


I think it's funny he's saying you're bitter for getting what he mocked you for wanting (keeping Bynum).

Poor R-star, doesn't even realize which direction he's ranting at anymore. :laugh:


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Ron said:


> Yeah, I took a beating for that, even on the Laker board.
> 
> But R-Star is all about confrontation...he feeds off of it, but its okay with me...he is a BBF legend, unique to this site, and I'm okay with him riding a beer-induced lunch to take me to task (even though its misdirected).


You never changed your stance on Bynum or Howard when it looked like Dwight was coming to the Lakers?

You never, not even once, posted that you'd trade Bynum for Howard in recent memory? 


Yea..... you and Jamel really aren't doing you any favors right now.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Lakers offer Bynum, trade excep, 2 #1s; Magic want both Bynum and Ga*



Blu said:


> Dallas and Laker #1's? A real treasure! Lol, Magic have no incentive to trade Dwight to LA for less than value, especially not to the same Lakers who also stole Shaq from us. If we trade him the Lakers, you bet for dam sure we getting fair value or we aren't trading him. No way we except anything less than what the Clipps are offering for Cp3. EGo, Minny 1st, Kaman, +prospects. Lakers offer is much worse than that. Heck what if Clips get CP3, and then decide to flip BGriff for Dwight and be instant contenders?
> 
> That is an option worth doing, not freaking broken down Bynum and two picks in the late 20's. Id rather keep Hedo, lose Dwight, and suck for 3 years and rebuild through the draft the right way with a hope of hitting it big. Than settle for being fringe playoff team for another decade, with no star player, no hope of contention, and little hope of improving big through the draft.


Is Viktor Mayhem a pornstar? Or is he some 10th grade basketball prospect you expect to be a starting shooting guard in the year 2016? Where do you fantasy geeks come up with these players?

Kristopher Krappo is a good name too. I bet your team is a strong contender.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> You never changed your stance on Bynum or Howard when it looked like Dwight was coming to the Lakers?
> 
> You never, not even once, posted that you'd trade Bynum for Howard in recent memory?
> 
> 
> Yea..... you and Jamel really aren't doing you any favors right now.


Damn. R-star thinks we look dumb. We must of ****ed up big, it takes a lot to get him to have such a low opinion of you. He's usually very tolerant.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> You never changed your stance on Bynum or Howard when it looked like Dwight was coming to the Lakers?
> 
> You never, not even once, posted that you'd trade Bynum for Howard in recent memory?
> 
> 
> Yea..... you and Jamel really aren't doing you any favors right now.


I was mocked mercilessly on the Laker board for saying I wouldn't trade Bynum for Howard straight up.

As you might as seen, I have been following the situation closely and updated the thread as news has come and gone. But I don't think you will find anywhere on there that I agreed with the trade...but you go ahead and look, R-Star.

Let me know what you find.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> Damn. R-star thinks we look dumb. We must of ****ed up big, it takes a lot to get him to have such a low opinion of you. He's usually very tolerant.


You do understand everyone see through your weak, pathetic attempt to move past the question I posted.


Your recent posting 

"Ron said he'd rather have Bynum dumbass!"
*Yea, until it looked like Howard was coming, then he changed his mind*
"Yea, well you're a stupid drunk!"


Good work. You sure showed me here.

If I was Ron, or hell, anyone for that matter, I'd ask you to leave anytime you try to help. You just end up tripping on your own feet and making me look better in the end.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Ron said:


> I was mocked mercilessly on the Laker board for saying I wouldn't trade Bynum for Howard straight up.
> 
> As you might as seen, I have been following the situation closely and updated the thread as news has come and gone. But I don't think you will find anywhere on there that I agreed with the trade...but you go ahead and look, R-Star.
> 
> Let me know what you find.


You know exactly what I'll find Ron. You replied to one of my posts saying "Didn't someone in here used to say they'd rather have Bynum over Howard" in which you replied while you still like Bynum, that you'd obviously rather have Howard.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> You do understand everyone see through your weak, pathetic attempt to move past the question I posted.
> 
> 
> Your recent posting
> 
> "Ron said he'd rather have Bynum dumbass!"
> *Yea, until it looked like Howard was coming, then he changed his mind*
> "Yea, well you're a stupid drunk!"
> 
> 
> Good work. You sure showed me here.
> 
> If I was Ron, or hell, anyone for that matter, I'd ask you to leave anytime you try to help. You just end up tripping on your own feet and making me look better in the end.




Since when do you drink? 

I didn't see any question marks in your replies to me, so maybe you are drunk right now?

Ron sorry I couldn't help you here. You are on your own, I just hope he has mercy.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> Since when do you drink?
> 
> Ron sorry I couldn't help you here. You are on your own, I just hope he has mercy.


Lost again huh?

I'd lie and say I look forward to your next blunder, but that would be a lie. You annoy me.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

He's an _angry_ Canadian.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

I can't do anything right! 

Now I somehow got R-star in a bad mood.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Bogg said:


> He's an _angry_ Canadian.


In his defense wouldn't you be if you lived in Canada? I think they do studies on how lack of sun affects your moods. But they have great bacon at least.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

People in this discussion who agree with R-Star - 0.

People in this discussion who disagree with R-Star - 2.

By R-Star's own logic displayed in the West thread, that makes him wrong.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> I can't do anything right!
> 
> Now I somehow got R-star in a bad mood.


You misunderstand. I'm not angry. 

At the end of the day I think you honestly believe you're one of the more knowledgeable guys around here, and one of the forums best posters. That makes me smile.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Floods said:


> People in this discussion who agree with R-Star - 0.
> 
> People in this discussion who disagree with R-Star - 2.
> 
> By R-Star's own logic displayed in the West thread, that makes him wrong.


In all honesty I don't know if I disagree with him because I'm not sure what his stance is. All he said is Ron is bitter and that I'm a moron?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Floods said:


> People in this discussion who agree with R-Star - 0.
> 
> People in this discussion who disagree with R-Star - 2.
> 
> By R-Star's own logic displayed in the West thread, that makes him wrong.


I see you made the right decision and ran away from the West thread.

And you probably need to read the thread. Your count is way off bro.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> You misunderstand. I'm not angry.
> 
> At the end of the day I think you honestly believe you're one of the more knowledgeable guys around here, and one of the forums best posters. That makes me smile.


How can I think that, when you clearly tell me I'm not? I mean there is at least no way I know more than you right?

I would be a ****ing idiot for doubting you.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> In all honesty I don't know if I disagree with him because I'm not sure what his stance is. All he said is Ron is bitter and that I'm a moron?


Anyone trying to team up with Floods in a debate should be embarrassed with themselves. 

The guy is a laughingstock.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> How can I think that, when you clearly tell me I'm not? I mean there is at least no way I know more than you right?
> 
> I would be a ****ing idiot for doubting you.


I think we would both agree on that.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> Anyone trying to team up with Floods in a debate should be embarrassed with themselves.
> 
> The guy is a laughingstock.


You have to cut us some slack, we can use all the help we can get against your knowledge. Basketball was invented by a Canadian you know.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> I see you made the right decision and ran away from the West thread.
> 
> And you probably need to read the thread. Your count is way off bro.


Sorry, probably the lack of booze.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> You have to cut us some slack, we can use all the help we can get against your knowledge. Basketball was invented by a Canadian you know.


In a peach basket bro. A peach basket.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Floods said:


> Sorry, probably the lack of booze.


"Uh oh, R-Star's winning. I'm going to call him a drunk and then that means I am the winning!"

I always know I'm killing it when you idiots move to that.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

In all seriousness do you really post here drunk? Please let me know next time, I bet that would be something to witness if this is you sober.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> In all seriousness do you really post here drunk? Please let me know next time, I bet that would be something to witness if this is you sober.


Sober or drunk, lets not act like its hard to come out on top with a poster such as yourself.

You're worthless. And its not just you and me who realize that, its anyone who posts here on a regular basis.


----------



## GNG

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Dear R-Star,

I don't see any way your Golden State fantasy team could possibly be any good. Unless you're trying to get Larry Bird the Sixth Man of the Year Award or something.

I remember picking up Olumide Oyedeji in my NBA Live franchises like eight years ago, trying to get some rebounder/shot blocker off the bench while I stocked up on shooters and swingmen early. I was awesome at NBA Live, and that tub of goo was more worthless than Adonal Foyle. Worst player in the game. Him and Mark Pope.

And he's your starter? And you have Voshon Lenard? I am baffled. Baffled indeed.

Thanks for reading,

Your buddy CDM


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Magic don't have a good GM. They are going to improve nothing.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Zzzzzz


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Cinco de Mayo said:


> Dear R-Star,
> 
> I don't see any way your Golden State fantasy team could possibly be any good. Unless you're trying to get Larry Bird the Sixth Man of the Year Award or something.
> 
> I remember picking up Olumide Oyedeji in my NBA Live franchises like eight years ago, trying to get some rebounder/shot blocker off the bench while I stocked up on shooters and swingmen early. I was awesome at NBA Live, and that tub of goo was more worthless than Adonal Foyle. Worst player in the game. Him and Mark Pope.
> 
> And he's your starter? And you have Voshon Lenard? I am baffled. Baffled indeed.
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> 
> Your buddy CDM


I don't think his team is that far off. If he can swing a trade for Viktor Mayhem or Kristopher Krappo he'll be in business.


----------



## GNG

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> I don't think his team is that far off. If he can swing a trade for Viktor Mayhem or Kristopher Krappo he'll be in business.


Or even Marcus Thornton. He's not as good as Tony Spence. Better he's better than Shaquille Davis.

And Voshon Lenard can wear his headband cockeyed all he wants. He's not as good as Shaquille Davis.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

According to the new CBA rules,
Can Mavs, Lakers or Heat sign Billups and Arenas if Nets or Wolves offer them over $5.5 mil a year?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> In all seriousness do you really post here drunk? Please let me know next time, I bet that would be something to witness if this is you sober.


Leave it to R-Star to hijack a great thread and make it personal.

Jesus H. Christ.

Let's move on.


----------



## CavsNut96

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Yeah I want things to change like how much work I have to do to wins Two games against the Alanta Hawks in the playoffs. This does suck for Orlando Not once in a life time center leaves but two. As a Cavs Fan I really want him im NY or in NJ.


----------



## GNG

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Where did all these unintelligible new posters come from?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

lol...Howard should've told Orlando this before they signed J-Rich to the 4 year contract.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Cinco de Mayo said:


> Dear R-Star,
> 
> I don't see any way your Golden State fantasy team could possibly be any good. Unless you're trying to get Larry Bird the Sixth Man of the Year Award or something.
> 
> I remember picking up Olumide Oyedeji in my NBA Live franchises like eight years ago, trying to get some rebounder/shot blocker off the bench while I stocked up on shooters and swingmen early. I was awesome at NBA Live, and that tub of goo was more worthless than Adonal Foyle. Worst player in the game. Him and Mark Pope.
> 
> And he's your starter? And you have Voshon Lenard? I am baffled. Baffled indeed.
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> 
> Your buddy CDM


It was a rebuilding team. I picked up Arenas and Randolph in the draft and had 2 top draft picks in the 2003 Lebron draft coming, but I was banned and had to give up the team. We were destined for greatness.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Ron said:


> Leave it to R-Star to hijack a great thread and make it personal.
> 
> Jesus H. Christ.
> 
> Let's move on.


Run away harder Ron. You know damn well you were just peachy with Dwight until you didn't get him.

So does everyone else. So no, I'm not the one looking a fool here. Its you.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Billups aint going to Orlando...


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



R-Star said:


> Run away harder Ron. You know damn well you were just peachy with Dwight until you didn't get him.
> 
> So does everyone else. So no, I'm not the one looking a fool here. Its you.


Dude, you were the one who chose to run away. You may have forgotten I was the only one who backed you after the ban and reinstated you.

Just saying.

Why don't we stay on topic now, shall we?

****


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Holy hell.



> While the Magic will entertain trade offers for Dwight Howard, they will attempt to repair their relationship and improve their team around him.
> 
> Sources therefore say that the Magic have no plans to trade Howard.
> 
> Alex Martins, new CEO of the franchise, met with Howard on Monday.
> 
> "I love this city, there is no place I'd rather be but Orlando," Howard said. "I just want to make sure we have the right things here so we can win a championship. I'm all about change. If you're willing to change and you're willing to do what it takes to win then, you know, you got me."
> 
> The Magic will use the model employed by the Lakers when they dealt with Kobe Bryant's trade request in 2007.
> 
> One source says that Dirk Nowitzki's breakthrough to win a title for the Mavericks had an influence on Howard, who would like to do the same for Orlando.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217444/Magic_Have_No_Plans_To_Trade_Dwight_Howard#ixzz1gLNFvx4y


They just freaking signed J-Rich to a 5 year contract or some shit. Get the **** outta there Dwight.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

Wow. Im shocked, thrilled, and mad, all at the same time. Shocked and thrilled that he's giving us another chance, but a lil mad that our cap situation is so messed up. Especially considering we wouldve been under the cap this summer to sign CP3 if we didnt trade for stupid Hedo AND Gil last yr.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> I don't think his team is that far off. If he can swing a trade for Viktor Mayhem or Kristopher Krappo he'll be in business.





Cinco de Mayo said:


> Or even Marcus Thornton. He's not as good as Tony Spence. Better he's better than Shaquille Davis.
> 
> And Voshon Lenard can wear his headband cockeyed all he wants. He's not as good as Shaquille Davis.


:laugh:


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

so let's say Dwight stays. What can Orlando possibly do now to turn that team into a contender?

This is what they have right now

Dwight
Glen Davis
Hedo
J Rich
Meer

Ryan Anderson
Q Rich
Redick
Duhon(lol)
Daniel Orton

Their payroll is around 60 mil with Arenas amnesty'd.

I think unless Fran Vazquez comes over it'll take a miracle.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*

http://espn.go.com/NBA/story/_/id/7...ted-center-preferred-destinations-sources-say


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Cinco de Mayo said:


> Or even Marcus Thornton. He's not as good as Tony Spence. Better he's better than Shaquille Davis.
> 
> And Voshon Lenard can wear his headband cockeyed all he wants. He's not as good as Shaquille Davis.


Moochie Sabonis is still out there as a free agent. Vladmir Lopez might not be ready to start, but he's a good cheap option as well.


----------



## King Joseus

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*

Now you're just making guys up.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*

Fair enough. What would you want for Salad tucans? Do you really need him with Durant and Peters?


----------



## GNG

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Jamel Irief said:


> Moochie Sabonis is still out there as a free agent. Vladmir Lopez might not be ready to start, but he's a good cheap option as well.


Vladimir Lopez is a really interesting story. A Cuban father and a Ukrainian mother who met as rogue secret agents in the United States. Even if they were dirty, stinking Communist spies, Vlad seems like a good kid, and I hope he makes it in the league. Nice jumper.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*


----------



## King Joseus

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*



Jamel Irief said:


> Fair enough. What would you want for Salad tucans? Do you really need him with Durant and Peters?


Can't give him up. We're cultivating a Lithuanian fan base in Utah and need him to sell tickets.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: D12: Howard has told Magic may want to stay, but "some things have to cha*



Cinco de Mayo said:


> Vladimir Lopez is a really interesting story. A Cuban father and a Ukrainian mother who met as rogue secret agents in the United States. Even if they were dirty, stinking Communist spies, Vlad seems like a good kid, and I hope he makes it in the league. Nice jumper.


:laugh: he just might.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*



> “@WojYahooNBA: Y! Sources: Orlando, N.J. trade talks for Dwight Howard gather momentum, but are Magic truly inclined to move star now? http://t.co/LmwMBGm9”.


...


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*

*Nets assembling blockbuster Howard trade offer*


> Talks between the Orlando Magic and New Jersey Nets for a Dwight Howard blockbuster trade have gathered momentum over the past several days, and the framework of a possible four-team deal has taken shape, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> Front office sources say Nets general manager Billy King has aggressively pursued the necessary players and picks to try and satisfy Orlando’s demands for Howard, one of the league’s most dominating and popular players.
> 
> The biggest hurdle for the Nets to acquire Howard will still ultimately be the Magic’s willingness to give up their future with him and concede that re-signing him is a lost cause. Orlando could also decide to keep Howard until the trade deadline in March and re-evaluate the market for him. There’s still a belief within the Magic a successful season could help them keep Howard for the long-term.
> No deal was imminent, but several league sources said talks were entering a crucial time, and the Nets were trying to get the proposal’s complex framework completed in the near future. Magic GM Otis Smith has been working with King on the possible deal. Orlando has also been listening to overtures elsewhere in the NBA, sources said.
> 
> New Jersey and Orlando are working toward a core deal that would send center Brook Lopez and another significant player obtained elsewhere to the Magic for Howard and Hedo Turkoglu, sources said.
> 
> The Magic are listening, but there is still real doubt about their willingness to completely give up hope on convincing Howard to re-sign with them after he opts out of his contract in July. Howard has been willing to sign extensions with the Los Angeles Lakers and Dallas Mavericks, but the Nets’ future in Brooklyn has been most intriguing to him.
> 
> Howard has been sold on the idea of pairing with Deron Williams in a new Brooklyn arena beginning in 2012-13, and informed Magic officials he wants a trade to New Jersey. Howard hasn’t rescinded his trade request to the Nets, but as one source close to him says: “He runs hot and cold. …He just doesn’t always know what he wants.”
> 
> While the Magic have engaged with the Nets, it’s still unclear if they’re motivated at all to trade Howard now. After all, the Nets deal for Lopez will always be there, so why rush into it? The Magic still believe with some team success this season, Howard can be swayed.
> 
> The Nets had been in the bidding for Nene, who agreed to re-sign with the Denver Nuggets on a five-year, $65 million deal with incentive bonuses.
> 
> The Nets are waiting on the Howard deal before trying to sign free agents. If they miss out on Howard, they’ll likely try to re-sign free-agent forward Kris Humphries to a one-year contract worth $8 million-$9 million, sources said. The Nets will likely try to limit any players they add in free agency to one-year deals if they don’t acquire Howard to preserve salary-cap space for Howard’s expected free agency this summer.
> 
> As the Nets hustle to try and cut a deal for Howard, the Dallas Mavericks continue to clear salary-cap space for the summer when they assuredly hope to make a play for Williams and Howard. Williams is a Dallas native, and the worst case for the Nets would be to watch him join Howard in signing with the Mavericks.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*

It used to be better when we just found out when the trade happened and didn't know so many details. I find myself checking way too often to see if anybody has been traded.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> “@WojYahooNBA: Y! Sources: Orlando, N.J. trade talks for Dwight Howard gather momentum, but are Magic truly inclined to move star now? http://t.co/LmwMBGm9”.


I saw this too but I didn't post it as an update because quite frankly it could have been made up.

I mean, what the **** is "gather[ing] momentum" really means? It's such a non-starter I left it alone.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: No to Chicago; D12 limits his moves to Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or stay in Orl*



> Just filed to ESPN with @chadfordinsider: Blazers emerge in trade scenario that would send Dwight Howard from Magic to Nets. Talks ongoing





> In most advanced scenario discussed, Blazers swingman Gerald Wallace would join Nets center Brook Lopez as principal pieces Magic would get





> Remains to be seen if ORL can indeed be convinced to part w/DH12 before season but this deal would also let them shed Hedo/Duhon contracts





> Blazers' main haul in proposed deal would be multiple draft picks for facilitating trade. ESPN link with @chadfordinsider on way shortly


https://twitter.com/#!/ESPNSteinLine


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

I think this goes on until the trade deadline. I just don't think Dwight has it in him to be the bad guy.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

Yea, Wallace and Lopez still isn't going to get it done.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*



Bogg said:


> Yea, Wallace and Lopez still isn't going to get it done.


I think that's the core but there will be other pieces to be added.

There are reports that a fourth team may also be involved but it hasn't been named and no specifics are given in those reports.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*



Ron said:


> I think that's the core but there will be other pieces to be added.
> 
> There are reports that a fourth team may also be involved but it hasn't been named and no specifics are given in those reports.


We'll see, but with Dwight appearing to waiver in his resolve to walk for less money, I don't see a need for Orlando to rush to deal him. I suppose it all comes down to the additional pieces. For the record, though, I would _love_ to see Howard on the Nets teamed up with Deron Williams. Those two would be perfect for each other.


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

I just don't know why you'd want that. The object isn't to win 28 games, although that might get you into the playoffs in the East. Wallace isn't that old, but he's been in the NBA for a long time and he's done about thirty seven crash landings that left him wondering which city he was in too. I love him, but he isn't that valuable to Orlando unless they have Howard. I would say that Lopez is overrated, but it's only the Nets fans that see him as the next Lew.


----------



## JNice

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

Well if Orlando moves Dwight I sure as hell hope they get more than Brooke Lopez and Gerald Wallace. Yikes. If Otis Smith does that he should be fired immediately.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

Here's my guess at a 4-teamer that appears to work for all teams.

Magic trade: C Howard, F Turkoglu, G Duhon
Magic receive: C B Lopez, F Camby, F G Wallace, future 1st

Magic get veteran talent back that matches their personnel beautifully (especially with JRich in the fold). They also get rid of just under $50 mil worth of Turk and Duhon over the next 3 years. They might also get a late 2012 first rounder (or rookie F JaJuan Johnson) to sweeten the pot even more.

Nets trade: C B Lopez, G Farmar, 2 First Rounders (and potentially the rights to their 2011 First)
Nets receive: C Howard, G Duhon

Nets get the best player in the deal for the package they want with the minor downgrade from Farmar to Duhon.

Blazers trade: F G Wallace, F Camby
Blazers receive: F Turkoglu, C J Thompson, 2 First Rounders

Blazers turn Wallace into picks and Camby (who was an amnesty candidate anyway) into a young big with potential for the price of taking back Turk's contract.

Kings trade: C J Thompson
Kings receive: G Farmar

Kings get rid of a redundant player on their roster for what would be their only true PG.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

Glen Davis can't be traded in conjunction with other players for a while.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*



Bogg said:


> Glen Davis can't be traded in conjunction with other players for a while.


Fixed. He was a super-minor cog anyway.


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

I think I'd rather have Bynum, which is not saying I would want Bynum. That way at least I could go to church every Sunday and pray that he got better and he did not become Sam Bowie.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7hmkzdf

Add two first rounders as well.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7hmkzdf
> 
> Add two first rounders as well.


Now that Nene and Marc Gasol have signed, the Rockets don't have a follow-up to this move. Adding Patterson and not having a shot at a premier free agent would likely be a deal breaker for Houston.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*

Dalembert?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: REPORT: Three-Way D12 Trade Discussed Between Nets, Magic, and Blazers*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Dalembert?


Only if they didn't have to lose Patterson. Maybe this?

Lakers trade: Gasol, Bynum, First Rounder
Lakers get: Howard, Turk, Duhon, and Scola

Rockets trade: Scola, Martin, Dragic, Budinger
Rockets get: Gasol

Magic trade: Howard, Turk, Duhon
Rockets get: Bynum, Martin, Budinger, Dragic, First Rounder

This works in the trade machine due to the available trade exceptions the Magic and Lakers possess. This would leave the Rockets with just under $7 mil in available cap room to throw at Dalembert. Houston could then pursue some of the amnestied players like Rip, RJeff, or Arenas or maybe even a Michael Redd to add some scoring.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



> WojYahooNBA
> Orlando has ended trade talks for Dwight Howard, league sources tell Y! Sports.


WojYahooNBA


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Cool.

Lakers open up on Xmas day without Bynum and Odom. ABC is gonna love that.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Orlando equals clown shoes....


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

It should be fun in the days to come to see how Orlando is going to fulfill D12's request to "change things."

Who do they go after?


----------



## Duck

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

CP3. pinuts should get it done. we are a small market, anyway


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Duck34234 said:


> CP3. pinuts should get it done. we are a small market, anyway


He won't sign an extension there. Hell, he won't even commit to more than two years with the Clippers.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Ron said:


> He won't sign an extension there. Hell, he won't even commit to more than two years with the Clippers.


That's because of the new cba rules a free agent can get more money when his contract expires...he still wouldn't sign an extension with any team this season...


----------



## Duck

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Ron said:


> He won't sign an extension there. Hell, he won't even commit to more than two years with the Clippers.


pretty sure if we had the assets to get it done, he would. Good weather, Dwight Howard, ownership with deep pockets. You're trying to tell me the only franchises he wants to play for are the Lakers and Knicks? I don't buy that at all

Paul won't sign with the clippers because sterling is the armpit of NBA ownership.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Yawn. It's not like this wasn't expected.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Lame. I can't believe at least one of these stars hasn't been moved yet. After all the drama.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



> Chad Ford Nets offered everything they could for Howard: Brook Lopez + FIVE 1st Rd picks. Theirs in 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 + Rockets 2012 pick


chadfordinsider




> ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
> ESPN reported earlier WEDS that Magic discussed dealing DH12 for B-Lopez/G-Wallace and shedding Hedo/Duhon with Blazers getting picks back


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Ron said:


> It should be fun in the days to come to see how Orlando is going to fulfill D12's request to "change things."
> 
> Who do they go after?


Joe Johnson


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Even if they could acquire another player to help Dwight, (highly unlikely because they have no real assets) he'd still be going nowhere in the East with the Heat, Bulls and Knicks all battling each other for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Dissonance said:


> chadfordinsider


smh why woudlnt they accept that :nonono:


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

"Chad Ford Nets offered everything they could for Howard: Brook Lopez + FIVE 1st Rd picks. Theirs in 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 + Rockets 2012 pick "

If this is true, Orlando has nobody to blame but themselves for sucking in future years.

Those picks probably would turn out to be mid-rounders


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Wow, wtf is Orlando thinking? Jesus that's a great deal.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

I ain't going to lie, that blows our offer right out the window.

If this is true, Orlando is foolish for not taking the deal.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Who were the Blazers getting?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Marcus13 said:


> "Chad Ford Nets offered everything they could for Howard: Brook Lopez + FIVE 1st Rd picks. Theirs in 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 + Rockets 2012 pick "
> 
> If this is true, Orlando has nobody to blame but themselves for sucking in future years.
> 
> Those picks probably would turn out to be mid-rounders


Those picks would be in the mid-twenties, not the mid-teens. Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, and three semi-competent swingmen are enough to get you up over 50 wins every year. That being said, _five_ draft picks is goofy. Considering that the next two drafts are _stacked_ that would have been the best chance that anyone's had of repeating the SEA/OKC approach to rebuilding.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Bogg said:


> Those picks would be in the mid-twenties, not the mid-teens. Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, and three semi-competent swingmen are enough to get you up over 50 wins every year. That being said, _five_ draft picks is goofy. Considering that the next two drafts are _stacked_ that would have been the best chance that anyone's had of repeating the SEA/OKC approach to rebuilding.


I would think that the 2012 Rockets pick is pretty enticing too, who knows what's going on over there.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why the Magic wouldn't take 5 freaking unprotected draft picks when they know Dwight is packing his bags at the end of the season anyway. J-Rich cannot save them. :nonono:


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Brian said:


> I would think that the 2012 Rockets pick is pretty enticing too, who knows what's going on over there.
> 
> For the life of me I cannot figure out why the Magic wouldn't take 5 freaking unprotected draft picks when they know Dwight is packing his bags at the end of the season anyway. J-Rich cannot save them. :nonono:


The Houston pick is lottery protected through 2016, turning into a second rounder in 2017 and cash. I don't know the details of the Nets picks, but safe to say they all would have been in the second half of the first round.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Woj is saying Blazers would have acquired 4 draft picks. Not Orlando.

Orlando would have acquired Lopez, Wallace, Farmar and 1st rounder and sent out Howard, Hedo and Duhon.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

D Howard again request to be traded today


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



NOFX22 said:


> D Howard again request to be traded today


Link?


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Dwight Howard told the Magic again on Wednesday that he wanted a trade, a league source said.

“Dwight’s not a happy camper,” one league source told Y! Sports.

Via Adrian Wojnarowski/Yahoo! Sports


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

Thanks...Twitter is down.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...w-wojnarowski_dwight_howard_magic_nets_121411



> Howard has warned the Magic if they don’t move him by the March 15 trade deadline, they’ll lose him for nothing in free agency. Howard told the Magic again on Tuesday that he wanted a trade, a league source said.
> 
> “Dwight’s not a happy camper,” one league source told Y! Sports.


WTF is Orlando doing???


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*










Is Dwight Howard bipolar?


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12*



Ron said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...w-wojnarowski_dwight_howard_magic_nets_121411
> 
> 
> 
> WTF is Orlando doing???


It's almost like Dwight and the team are making conscious efforts to out-retard each other.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Hibachi! said:


> Is Dwight Howard bipolar?


:laugh:


----------



## Venom110

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

*KOBE VOICE* Ship his *** OUT!!!


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Damnit Otis take the Nets' offer! Please. Pretty please with a cherry on top.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

*Magic not ready to trade Howard*


> Despite strong overtures from the New Jersey Nets, the Orlando Magic informed teams Wednesday they are not ready to seriously engage in trade discussions for All-Star center Dwight Howard, league sources told CBSSports.com.
> 
> The Nets were "pushing hard" over the past 48 hours and accelerated the talks to the point where teams were being recruited to serve as a third or fourth team to provide Orlando with the kind of assets it would find acceptable if there was no other option but to trade Howard. However, a person with knowledge of the situation said Wednesday, "The Magic are in no rush to do anything." The team's top priority remains to find a way to keep Howard in Orlando.
> 
> League sources confirmed that talks between the Nets and Magic gained momentum in recent days and that New Jersey was working on a complicated set of scenarios to land Howard that could involve one or two other teams. But the biggest hurdle was uncertainty over whether the Magic are ready to give up on trying to persuade Howard to stay in Orlando.
> 
> A person familiar with the discussions described them as "very complicated," and two other people confirmed that one scenario would have looped in the Trail Blazers as a third team to provide swingman Gerald Wallace as a second primary piece along with Nets center Brook Lopez in a package for Howard. As part of the deal, New Jersey also would have taken back Hedo Turkoglu and the $34 million left on his contract.
> 
> But a league source told CBSSports.com Wednesday that the scenario as currently constructed with Wallace joining Lopez in Orlando as the primary pieces was not enough to persuade the Magic to move forward with the deal.
> 
> "If people think things are imminent, then they're being led down the wrong path," the person said.
> 
> *An executive within the league who is familiar with Orlando's situation said the expectation remains that the Magic will once again revisit trade scenarios for Howard, but not until after All-Star weekend -- which is being held in Orlando Feb. 24-26. The trade deadline during this shortened 66-game season will be March 15.*
> 
> The Magic are determined to avoid another Shaq scenario -- when Shaquille O'Neal left Orlando as a free agent in 1996 and the team got nothing in return. If the only option is to trade Howard, sources said the team will be take its time to find the right deal. GM Otis Smith will not, and has not, limited himself to exploring deals with the three teams Howard has signaled he's willing to sign a long-term deal with -- the Nets, Lakers and Mavericks, sources said.
> 
> Among the factors fueling the Nets' heightened pursuit of Howard was the re-emergence of the Lakers in the Chris Paul trade discussions Tuesday, which led rival executives to believe that the Lakers were more focused on landing Paul than Howard. But the Los Angeles Times reported that Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak was engaged in conversations about both superstars, and people with direct knowledge of Howard's strategy have had the Lakers at the top of his wish list since at least February 2010. The Nets, who are moving to a new arena in Brookyn in 2012, became more attractive when the team acquired All-Star point guard Deron Williams this past February.
> 
> Another factor that ramped up the Nets-Magic talks was free-agent big man Nene's decision to stay in Denver with a five-year, $67 million contract. Nene was atop the Nets' free-agent wish list, but their primary objective since acquiring Williams has been to land Howard -- either in a trade or as a free agent next summer.
> 
> The Mavericks, the third team on Howard's list of preferred trade destinations, have continued to dutifully clear 2012 cap space in an effort that is geared toward a possible run at Howard if he gets to free agency or Williams, who went to high school in the Dallas area, if he is not persuaded to stay with the Nets after he opts out of his contract and becomes a free agent on July 1.
> 
> Last week, the Magic gave Howard's agent, Dan Fegan, permission to speak with the Nets, Lakers and Mavericks about a possible trade. But sources said the team has no intention of limiting its options to those teams if and when it decides that there's no other choice but to trade Howard. As long as the team can endure the media circus, the Magic can afford to wait for a better deal -- with the hope, sources said, that adding another piece to the team in the meantime and starting the season on a winning note between the Christmas opener and the All-Star break would help persuade Howard to stay.
> 
> In fact, although Howard complained last week about the lack of input he'd been given in personnel decisions, the facts do not agree. While Howard disagreed with the decision to waive Gilbert Arenas with the amnesty provision, Arenas wouldn't have been in Orlando to begin with if not for Howard, who is close to him. The move didn't work out, and the organization had no choice but to take advantage of the amnesty clause, which allows it to wipe Arenas' massive contract off the cap and tax and use the flexibility gained to improve the team.
> 
> A league source said Howard also requested that Smith acquire Glen "Big Baby" Davis from the Celtics, which he did in recent days in a trade for Brandon Bass.
> 
> "He's been as involved as any superstar on any team," the league source said.
> 
> The Magic also have to address changes in the front office, with former team president Alex Martins suddenly taking over as CEO for Bob Vander Weide. How the new hierarchy is handled could have an impact on the timing and terms of any Howard trade, sources said. But while the Magic can afford to be patient, perhaps all the way to the March 15 trade deadline, the team can't play chicken with Howard for too long. Under provisions of the new collective bargaining agreement, the Magic would not be able to hold out for the worst-case scenario of a sign-and-trade because such a maneuver no longer provides a free agent with maximum length and dollars when he leaves his team.
> 
> If Orlando waited Howard out through the season and called his bluff that he wouldn't choose, say, a four-year, $76 million free-agent deal with the Nets over the five-year, $100 million the Magic could offer, they would have no sign-and-trade recourse if that's what Howard decided to do. The stakes also are exceedingly high for the Nets, who would face losing Williams under similar circumstances.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

The longer they keep Dwight, the better their record will be and the higher their pick will become in a deep draft.


----------



## Venom110

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Lakers need to offer Bynum and Gasol immediately...


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Venom110 said:


> Lakers need to offer Bynum and Gasol immediately...


If I'm the Lakers I only do that if the Magic cough up Jameer.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

no to Pau and Howard unless we get back more than Howard (and I dont think Howard wants to play with Nelson so no)


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Bynum and Gasol for Howard? Meaning they'd essentially have been rid of Bynum, Gasol, and Odom for Howard? Way too pricy.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Honestly I don't understand why Lakers fans are so adamant about not giving up both Bynum and Gasol for Dwight. Gasol's not the same player he was and Bynum... well he's only good for 50 games a season. Dwight is a bonafide superstar.

If you can get Jameer back too, the Lakers should do it in a split second.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

meanwhile in response to the current thread title - who cares - they're still talking, of course they are - this is just a 'hey! look over there' - Orlando is trying to 'reset' the conversation without having to deal with the pressure of knowing he's leaving which gives other teams leverage - of course he's leaving

(and **** both David Stern and (right now) AXE, previously Toyota (find another less intrusive way to do an ad))


----------



## Cris

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Brian said:


> Honestly I don't understand why Lakers fans are so adamant about not giving up both Bynum and Gasol for Dwight. Gasol's not the same player he was and Bynum... well he's only good for 50 games a season. Dwight is a bonafide superstar.
> 
> If you can get Jameer back too, the Lakers should do it in a split second.


Because it leaves them with a starting lineup of something like

Blake/Fisher
Kobe
Artest
McRoberts
Howard 


Compared to 

Blake/Fisher
Kobe
Artest
Gasol
Bynum


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Brian said:


> Honestly I don't understand why Lakers fans are so adamant about not giving up both Bynum and Gasol for Dwight. Gasol's not the same player he was and Bynum... well he's only good for 50 games a season. Dwight is a bonafide superstar.
> 
> If you can get Jameer back too, the Lakers should do it in a split second.



Pau was second team all NBA last season - his effort in the playoffs sucked but he had a great (early runner for mvp) regular season - he remains one of the top 3 or 4 bigs in the league, sorry

and Dwight is rumored to not like Nelson, so no


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

also **** AXE (previously Toyota - find another way to do that ad, it's annoying)


----------



## Venom110

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

CP3 to the Clips means Dwight is either going to the Nets (via Trade) or the Mavs as a Free Agent... Lakers cannot let either scenario play out. Dwight was holding out to team up with CP3, now that that's out the way, he will strongly consider teaming up with DWill... Lakers better make a move...


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Of course the Lakers should offer both Bynum and Pau. The Lakers just lost Odom for nothing. They're not winning a championship this year. At least this way they can have a franchise player for the future.

But hopefully Howard becomes a Net so everything can be right in this world.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Of course the Lakers should offer both Bynum and Pau. The Lakers just lost Odom for nothing. They're not winning a championship this year. At least this way they can have a franchise player for the future.
> 
> But hopefully Howard becomes a Net so everything can be right in this world.


Yep. It seems like Lakers fans still think they can win the championship after getting worse and several teams getting better. It's time for them to re-tool for the future.

If Dwight goes to the Lakers he's not going to leave after the season's done even if they go 0-82, that's just the truth.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Venom110 said:


> Lakers need to offer Bynum and Gasol immediately...


NFW


----------



## lakeshows

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Of course the Lakers should offer both Bynum and Gasol and everyone not named Kobe. If I was the Magic I would say hell no though. Dwight is by FAR the best player in the deal, and Bynum and Gasol is scraps compared to Dwight. 

Why would they want a 7th year injury prone made of glass center whose career year was 15 and 8. And a 32 year old soft PF. You think that gets you a top 5 player in the league? I doubt it. The Lakers have no young assets either in terms of prospects or picks.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Because that's the best off they're gonna get from either LA, Jersey or Dallas...


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Howard, Kobe and scrubs isn't going to take you there. In fact you would have to think that Howard would say Thanks, but no thanks to a trade that put him on that sort of team. He'd be in exactly the same situation he's in now and if he was smart he'd tell everyone he was not going to sign an extension with the a neutered Lakers team.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Because that's the best off they're gonna get from either LA, Jersey or Dallas...


Except New Jersey is offering way more than the Lakers can offer, and Howard is ok going there. They get Hedo off the books, Brook Lopez, Gerald Wallace, Farmar (throw in), and a first round pick. Far superior than Bynum. Pau is the only other tradeable asset. Unless they somehow swing that TPE into a good player to Orlando, there's no way they take the Laker deal over the New Jersey deal. But remember, Odom took a lower deal to stay with the Lakers. Lakers would be hard pressed to find a player of Odom's caliber, with that contract, and a team that's looking to move that player for just a TPE.

The Lakers on the other hand, should have no interest in swinging Pau and Bynum for Howard. Howard and Kobe isn't going to get it done.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Id do the Lopez + Wallace + picks deal, and then look to shop/flip both those guys to an up-n-coming contender or something at mid-season for something w more long term value. If we lose Dwight, we dedicate the season to tanking and get a top 10 pick as well. I love Dwight in Orlando, but i would also love to see team up with star like Dwill, and he'd have a better future chance to win something in NJ w a young star PG than here with our cap situation it seems like, so cant blame him. If we have to trade him id rather see him take a new team to the title like NJ, than see the stale Lakers get another ring. Plus, that package is crap w/o Gasol included.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvwqomGCx7ylsn_HHJFsuvy8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_dwight_howard_magic_nets_121411



> Howard told teammates on Tuesday that he thought the trade to the Nets was a “done deal,” a league source told Y! Sports. Twenty-four hours later on Wednesday, Howard told them he was under the impression that “ownership killed it,” the source said.


Magic owners pulling a Stern


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Vuchato said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvwqomGCx7ylsn_HHJFsuvy8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_dwight_howard_magic_nets_121411
> 
> 
> 
> Magic owners pulling a Stern


No way he stays there now.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

I don't really see why the Magic are obligated to make a deal today. Unless I am missing something no one has offered them a deal that I would take. In fact people keep talking about them losing Howard for nothing, then they talk about deals that would only be marginally better than losing him for nothing. The Nets deal is a mediocre big man and cap relief. The Lakers are offering a tall guy who might or might not be a good player if he could stay healthy. I am not going to trade him for anything that is on the table. If Howard gets pissed at me it really does not change very much, because I am still in the same crappy situation if he loves me or hates me.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Diable said:


> I don't really see why the Magic are obligated to make a deal today. Unless I am missing something no one has offered them a deal that I would take. In fact people keep talking about them losing Howard for nothing, then they talk about deals that would only be marginally better than losing him for nothing. The Nets deal is a mediocre big man and cap relief. The Lakers are offering a tall guy who might or might not be a good player if he could stay healthy. I am not going to trade him for anything that is on the table.


They don't have to move him anywhere at any time. It's Howard who is demanding the trade.

Bottom line: this guy is *not* going to sign an extension with *any team* other than the Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or Magic. I don't understand why posters here keep thinking other teams are in the mix. They are not. Howard has all the cards here, and will force Orlando's hand; otherwise, he walks in July for nothing.

Orlando *has* to move him before March 15. Period.


----------



## JNice

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Who has cap space available this coming summer? That factors in heavily as well. I agree with Diable ... with the offers being reported now, I wait and take my chances. I do think Dwight is somewhat torn. I don't think it is completely written in stone that he is gone or that Orlando could pull off some other miracle deal. Some team with a good player starts off terribly, who knows who might become available. Orlando might be thinking twice about taking Lopez, GWallace and some picks after what New Orleans was able to get for CP3.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Vuchato said:


> Magic owners pulling a Stern


It's a conspiracy! Dwight should sue!


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



lakeshows said:


> Of course the Lakers should offer both Bynum and Gasol and everyone not named Kobe. If I was the Magic I would say hell no though. Dwight is by FAR the best player in the deal, and Bynum and Gasol is scraps compared to Dwight.


Why wouldn't you trade Kobe for Howard though?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Marcus13 said:


> Why wouldn't you trade Kobe for Howard though?


Well, for one thing, he has a no-trade clause.

Oops!


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Ron said:


> Well, for one thing, he has a no-trade clause.
> 
> Oops!


That'll do it everytime


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Bynum, Gasol, Ebanks, and two 1st rounders is better than the NJ/Portland offer.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Why would Howard want to play for the team that you had left after that?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Because Deron Williams would probably follow him next year.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Because Deron Williams would probably follow him next year.


Lakers wouldn't have cap space to bring in Williams. Unless you're planning on flipping Steve Blake, Metta World Peace, and a trade exception for a top-5 point guard, that is.


----------



## eddymac

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Orlando better know what they're doing. It's too risky to hope that they have a good season. It's better to get something for him.


----------



## JNice

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

They have until the trade deadline. They don't have to force anything right now.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



> “@LakersNation: Dwight Howard states that his trade demand "still stands," even after Orlando said they won't trade him yet. http://t.co/FVuJVA0M”





> .“@LD2k: Dwight on trade request: “It still stands. ... I talked to Otis today, and what we talk about is going to stay between me and him.””


...


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Too bad Dwight said no to Chicago, that's something I'd have liked to see, especially with the Knicks gearing up and the Heat being the Heat.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



eddymac said:


> Orlando better know what they're doing. It's too risky to hope that they have a good season. It's better to get something for him.


Lol, they haven't had a clue since they signed rashard lewis


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Brook Lopez 3 years pro career rebounds:1882
Andrew Bynum 6 years pro career rebounds: 2367
mb4th - December 15, 2011 via mobile


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*










Dodger fan huh...

Hmmmmm...


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Brook Lopez 3 years pro career rebounds:1882
> Andrew Bynum 6 years pro career rebounds: 2367
> mb4th - December 15, 2011 via mobile


Other than Bynum's health problems, what exactly does this prove?

No one's stupid enough to try and prove someone's a better rebounder using totals.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

If Dwight really wanted to win, he'd go to Memphis for Marc Gasol and OJ Mayo. However, he doesn't want to win, he wants to be a celebrity, so Orlando's gonna have to settle for a worse team and offer.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Floods said:


> Other than Bynum's health problems, what exactly does this prove?
> 
> No one's stupid enough to try and prove someone's a better rebounder using totals.


What doesn't it prove


----------



## M.V.W.

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Dodger fan huh...
> 
> Hmmmmm...


I didn't even catch that when I saw that interview this morning on NBATV.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> What doesn't it prove


Everything aside from Bynum's injury troubles.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Brook Lopez 3 years pro career rebounds:1882
> Andrew Bynum 6 years pro career rebounds: 2367
> mb4th - December 15, 2011 via mobile


Wait... so straight up, do you think Lopez is a better rebounder than Bynum?

Hard to argue against your evidence though, Lopez got a lot more rebounds than Bynum in college too.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Jamel Irief said:


> Wait... so straight up, do you think Lopez is a better rebounder than Bynum?
> 
> Hard to argue against your evidence though, Lopez got a lot more rebounds than Bynum in college too.


I think Lopez is a finese player who lacks a mean streak. Rebounding a straight up man defense can be acceptable.

I think for a variety of reasons we by don't know what Lopez will be yet. Anyone with their head up knows them by now. No coaching first 2 years, a lineup in his 2nd year of players currently out of the league, last year mono and Kris humphries.


I do know that the DWill trade reinvigorated him and he stepped it up. Working w/ Hakeem and getting his body along with trade rumors and a contract year means this is where we find out just how good he is. But I do know the worst he is 82 games of 22/9

Whh he gets dogged as an average trade piece I'll never know(Simmons probably). Bynum is 6 years only beat lopez's healthy rebounding avg. twice. This isn't fantasy extrapolation. Bynums health matters 


As desperate and pathetic as the nets were groveling for Carmello they never thought about putting Lopez in the trade.


Tl;dr Lopez soft as tissue lolomfg


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Dodger fan huh...
> 
> Hmmmmm...


The Dodgers are original from Brooklyn.

Hmmmmm...


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Knicks4life said:


> The Dodgers are original from Brooklyn.
> 
> Hmmmmm...


I think that would mean something if he would be wearing the "B" Dodgers hat (which, ironically, is sold at Dodger Stadium), but he is clearly wearing a "Dodgers" cap with the LA on it.

Face it, guys, he's just ****ing with everybody.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Brook Lopez 3 years pro career rebounds:1882
> Andrew Bynum 6 years pro career rebounds: 2367
> mb4th - December 15, 2011 via mobile


LOL.

Career minutes played:
Bynum: 8,063
Lopez: 8,417

Career Rebounds:
Bynum: 2,367
Lopez: 1,862


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Sounds like the player who plays in half as many games and costs 3X as much isn't quite the rebounding demon either huh?


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Never said he was. I was just pointing out how silly it was to use the number of years played to try and prove who the better rebounder is.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

It's not the point. I concede rebounding and physicality. And Lopez has better offense, health, contract, and character.


And bynums rebounding certainly isn't elite.


I get the whole "one guy has been In the playoffs and I've seen him before and the other is always on bad teams" line of thInking.


But IMO Bynum Is 3rd behind Noah/Lopez as a trade prospect since His one advantage over Lopez isnt by much. And Noah has always been a good teammate and the only injury that comes to mind is His wrist injury .


----------



## Cris

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> LOL.
> 
> Career minutes played:
> Bynum: 8,063
> Lopez: 8,417
> 
> Career Rebounds:
> Bynum: 2,367
> Lopez: 1,862


QFT


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

GTFO Brook Lopez is not on the same tier as Bynum. I get the distinct impression that if you traded for Bynum, he would love being the man and would put up numbers he has already flashed in his career. He is not and will not be a leader but Lopez is a puss. Was a puss in college and has been a puss his entire NBA career. If I am an owner and my GM suggests Brooke Lopez as a trade focal point for Howard, I fire him on the spot.


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

A team with Brooke Lopez as the premier big man on a team won't ever win a title. Period.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



> “@LakersNation: John Ireland says a source is telling him Dwight Howard will be traded to the Nets by tomorrow. Uh oh. http://t.co/YUQnuqHA”


...


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Better not happen.

This Lamar giveaway is looking stupider and stupider every day. And it looked pretty ****ing retarded the day of.


----------



## Venom110

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



> Brook Lopez has been diagnosed with a stress fracture of the fifth metatarsal in his right foot.


Surgery Friday...

http://rotoworld.com/player/nba/1495/brook-lopez


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

I think this will favor the lakers!


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

I think that I would not settle for Bynum and trash if I were Orlando. If I were Dwight I would still not want to play for a Lakers team that was old Kobe and the Smushettes. So I don't see how anything is really different.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

You don't think Dwight would want to play with Kobe and Pau? I can say with a lot of confidence that you're wrong there.

The Lakers should offer Bynum, Darius Morris and two first round picks for Howard and Redick.

Eventually, the Magic will realize that they can either take that offer or lose him via FA. Or, they could trade him to NJ for Lopez and picks....yuck...


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Darius Morris?


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

I don't think the Magic make a trade unless they or some third team gets Pau. Why the hell would they?

And don't tell me because they will get nothing in the summer, because it's not the summer and Bynum by himself is a shitty deal for them.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Diable said:


> I don't think the Magic make a trade unless they or some third team gets Pau. Why the hell would they?


It's called the trade deadline, my man. Why would they keep him and lose him for nothing?

I don't think they'll deal him until we get closer to the deadline. However, I do think they'll trade him and I also think the Lakers would be incredibly stupid to give up Bynum and Gasol. Right now, they have easily the best offer available. Why raise it? It makes no sense for them to bid against themselves.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

What the odds that Bynum ends up in Birmingham, Alabama before the trade deadline?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Diable said:


> I think that I would not settle for Bynum and trash if I were Orlando. If I were Dwight I would still not want to play for a Lakers team that was old Kobe and the Smushettes. So I don't see how anything is really different.


Really?

That team won two titles and went to the Finals three years in a row. The Smushettes?

Your skirt is showing.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

****, its more likely that Howard will end up on the Mavs on July 1 now.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Brook should be back before the trade deadline, maybe even for a month before it. And don't forget, this will make the Nets pick a lot more attractive to the Magic.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

I think the odds favor the Lakers and I think they have to include Pau in a deal via a third team. They say they aren't willing to do both Bynum and Pau in the same deal, but if you were willing to do Pau/Lamar for CP3, then Pau/Bynum is fair, plus I think they could get back a lesser power forward such as Scola in the deal.

At some point during the season, Dwight has to be traded. After the season is underway and the Magic are behind 4-5 other Eastern teams, is he still going to consider signing an extension? Is he still going to want to be traded to New Jersey after they start losing a bunch of games? 

The Lakers will be good-but-not-great and will probably have Kobe clamouring for them to make a move b/c they are losing to contender-type teams. So their stance of not including Pau will ease. And Orlando might as well trade him b/c it's the only way to get someone to take on those bad contracts they have. 

This also makes it more likely for Deron to leave New Jersey. Chances are up for Dallas getting one of the two.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Vuchato said:


> Brook should be back before the trade deadline, maybe even for a month before it. And don't forget, this will make the Nets pick a lot more attractive to the Magic.


The story I read said he was out for the rest of the season.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Gasol had the same injury and was out 3 months.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



> “@SpearsNBAYahoo: Nets project center Brook Lopez will be out 6-8 weeks after foot surgery.”


...


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

What about Deron Williams? Since it's pretty unlikely that the Nets score Dwight at this point, I wonder what he's thinking. This Brooklyn team, as constructed, won't make the playoffs, and that means he's already wasted two of his prime years playing for a bottom feeder. I wouldn't be surprised if he bolted this offseason.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Wouldn't be surprised? Getting Dwight is the only chance they have of keeping him.

If Dwight ends up in Dallas though, dunno where that would put Deron. As far as I know Dallas couldn't get both.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Floods said:


> Wouldn't be surprised? Getting Dwight is the only chance they have of keeping him.
> 
> If Dwight ends up in Dallas though, dunno where that would put Deron. As far as I know Dallas couldn't get both.


Use the Amnesty clause on Marion, trade Haywood, and have Dirk restructure his contract and it can happen.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Floods said:


> If Dwight ends up in Dallas though, dunno where that would put Deron. As far as I know Dallas couldn't get both.


Boston hopefully. :bsmile:


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Knicks4life said:


> Use the Amnesty clause on Marion, trade Haywood, and have Dirk restructure his contract and it can happen.


No one's taking Haywood's contract unless Dallas is throwing in Dirk.


----------



## Dornado

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

The last year of Haywood's contract is non-guaranteed, for whatever that is worth.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

It's not the last ten million that's the killer, it's the $35 million it takes to get there...


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

*What will Magic want for Dwight?
*


> Precisely when the Orlando Magic might be willing to trade Dwight Howard is not yet clear.
> 
> It's obviously not going to happen fast enough for New Jersey Nets fans, who serenaded their team with chants of "We Want Howard" during a humbling home defeat to the Atlanta Hawks at the Prudential Center on Tuesday night.
> 
> In the Nets' home opener.
> 
> However ...
> 
> There is at least a fairly clear sense out there about what the Magic would eventually want in exchange for Howard if they decide, as widely expected between now and the March 15 deadline, to make sure they get something for their face of the franchise as opposed to risking the possibility that the Team USA center bolts Orlando in July with nothing coming back in return, just like a certain TNT analyst did in the Olympic summer of 1996.
> 
> Sources familiar with Orlando's thinking say that a picture of what the Magic will ultimately expect in return for their anchor has indeed begun to emerge, telling ESPN.com this week that Orlando would not hold out for youth and draft picks as the league-owned New Orleans Hornets were ordered to do in the Chris Paul sweepstakes. The Magic, sources say, would instead prefer to bring back multiple established veterans who can keep the team competitive.
> 
> Reason being: Orlando has moved into a new arena last season and has a 85-year-old owner in Rich De Vos. Sources say De Vos has little interest in starting over/rebuilding, as evidenced by the recent decisions to trade for Glen "Big Baby" Davis and re-sign Jason Richardson even though Howard's future is so murky.
> 
> The trade proposal for Howard that advanced the farthest to date -- before Magic GM Otis Smith publicly announced that he's not ready to part with his 26-year-old star -- would have delivered Nets center Brook Lopez, Portland Trail Blazers swingman Gerald Wallace and at least one first-round pick to Orlando while also seeing the Nets absorb the long-term contracts of Hedo Turkoglu and Chris Duhon for the right to take Dwight with them to Brooklyn.
> 
> Sources told ESPN.com that the aforementioned Hawks, meanwhile, engaged Orlando in trade talks for Howard earlier this month with an offer believed to be headlined by $124 million guard Joe Johnson and swingman Josh Smith. You have to figure that the Magic, though, would insist on Al Horford if such discussions ever got serious.
> 
> The Hawks are not on Howard's short list of preferred trade destinations alongside the Nets, Los Angeles Lakers and Dallas Mavericks, even though Atlanta is his hometown. That's presumably because Howard wants no part of Atlanta's perpetually unsettled ownership situation. The Hawks nonetheless took the risk of pursuing Howard anyway and, according to sources, felt like they were making some semblance of progress before the Magic shut down talks.
> 
> Yet it appears that the Magic, as the Orlando Sentinel reported earlier this month, are inclined to wait until closer to the trading deadline before making a move to keep open the possibility that Howard has a change of heart and consents to a contract extension that prevents him from reaching free agency.
> 
> It remains to be seen if Orlando will win enough in the short term to stay patient, but it's a stance the Magic believe they can afford to take because, as Smith told the Sentinel's Josh Robbins: “I don’t think there’s anything on the table that won’t be on the table three months from now."
> 
> Howard's agent, Dan Fegan, has formal permission from the Magic to discuss trade possibilities with the three teams (Nets, Lakers and Mavs) atop Howard's wish list. The strongest signals in circulation indicate that Howard has the Nets in the top spot on that list, since that would allow him to play alongside fellow All-Star Deron Williams, move with the Nets to Brooklyn starting next season and -- perhaps as important as anything, one source maintains -- hush the criticism about following Shaquille O'Neal's career script too closely by choosing to spurn the Lakers instead of joining them.
> 
> Yet I have heard from multiple teams observing the Dwight Sweepstakes suggest that the best offer Orlando is likely to see could be a three-way deal reminiscent of the trade construction that the Lakers and Houston Rockets hatched in their near-trade for CP3 that was ultimately vetoed by NBA commissioner David Stern in his role as the Hornets' stand-in owner.
> 
> If the Lakers reach the point that they're willing to give up both Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol in a three-way Dwight deal with the Rockets, Orlando could conceivably come away with Bynum, Luis Scola and Kevin Martin, with Gasol landing in Houston as he would have in the original Paul trade. That would undoubtedly be a strong trio to start over with, in addition to shedding Turkoglu and perhaps Duhon, who are both signed through the 2013-14 season at a combined cost of roughly $45 million.
> 
> But here's the thing: L.A. might not get to that point. If the Lakers are unwilling to give up both Bynum and Gasol, as some insiders suggest, that trade concept will never progress to an active discussion.
> 
> Complicating things further, of course, is the recent foot injury suffered by the Nets' Lopez, whose best attribute -- if you're comparing him to Bynum – had been his durability until this setback. It's anyone's guess now as to whether Lopez will be healthy enough to include in a trade package if/when the Magic are finally ready to deal … or if New Jersey will have to try to rope in an additional team or two to assemble an offer good enough to trump the Lakers and any other team willing to gamble on Howard without him committed to re-signing and win the race to DH12.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

If Dwight Howard went to NJ that team would still be really bad. Right now it hurts to watch them and you need more than just Deron and Howard.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Exactly. If Dwight is ok going to NJ then his whole wanting to leave so he can compete is pure bullshit.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> Exactly. If Dwight is ok going to NJ then his whole wanting to leave so he can compete is pure bullshit.


It already was. If winning was the number one thing on his mind, he wouldn't have said no to Chicago.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Floods said:


> It already was. If winning was the number one thing on his mind, he wouldn't have said no to Chicago.


_"But Chicago is coooooooooold" child voice_


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Jesus if Horford & JJ begat Howard the Hawks better make the deal. With Howard and Smith anchoring the defense opponents might not score their first bucket until midway through the second quarter,


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

The Hawks would obviously try to put in Smith instead of Horford. Not seeing why the Magic would take back Johnson without getting rid of all sorts of bad contracts, not when they have already burned their amnesty on Arenas. Getting Howard would not make the Hawks a true contender IMO, at least not unless they made a couple of good moves afterwards. Of course they'd have a lot better chance than they have now.

There has to be something that is better for everyone that what has been talked about so far. If Howard goes to the Lakers or the Nets he ends up in a bad situation and the Magic get back a very marginal return. Unless Gasol and Bynum both go out I would just call Howard's bluff. Let him walk away and leave all that money, because staying in Orlando really isn't a lot worse for him than going to the places he claims he wants to go.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Diable said:


> The Hawks would obviously try to put in Smith instead of Horford. Not seeing why the Magic would take back Johnson without getting rid of all sorts of bad contracts, not when they have already burned their amnesty on Arenas.
> 
> There has to be something that is better for everyone that what has been talked about so far. If Howard goes to the Lakers or the Nets he ends up in a bad situation and the Magic get back a very marginal return. Unless Gasol and Bynum both go out I would just call Howard's bluff. Let him walk away and leave all that money, because staying in Orlando really isn't a lot worse for him than going to the places he claims he wants to go.


I'd go as far as to say going to LA for both Gasol and Bynum puts him on a worse team than he is now.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

It sucks that Dwight doesn't want to be a Bull. There isn't a better situation in this league for him to go to, out of the teams that can feasibly acquire him.

Bulls get:
Howard
Turkoglu
Q-Rich

Magic get:
Noah
Korver
Michael Beasley
Brad Miller
2012 Bobcats 1st rounder via the Bulls

Wolves get:
Boozer
John Lucas
2012 Bulls 1st rounder
Future Bulls 1st rounder

Bulls get Howard. Magic get Noah, Beasley, CHA's protected 1st rounder, and effectively shed the back end of a couple of contracts. Still a playoff caliber team in the east. Wolves get rid of Beasley and open things up for Williams. They also take Boozer's contract off Chicago's hands, amnesty him, and receive a couple of 1st rounders for their trouble.

Bulls lineup
PG Rose/Watson
SG Hamilton/Brewer/Q-Rich
SF Deng/Turkoglu/Q-Rich
PF Gibson/Turkoglu
C Howard/Asik

Backup PF is kind of a hole but that can be taken care of.

Nothing like some trade machine to kill time.


----------



## ATLien

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Dwight needs to man up and agree to the Atlanta proposal


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



ATLien said:


> Dwight needs to man up and agree to the Atlanta proposal


Well he needs to do something, the guy is murdering his image right now. I love him before all this.

"I want to be with the Magic. I love it here."
"I changed my mind. Things aren't working out. I want to go somewhere else."
"I changed my mind. I talked to the GM and I can see me staying now."
"I changed my mind. I want to leave again. But I get to pick and choose where I go."

If you're a skilled player in todays NBA you can act like a spoiled brat and shaft the team that drafted you with your prima dona demands.

I hope they find a way to get rid of this bullshit.


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> Well he needs to do something, the guy is murdering his image right now. I love him before all this.
> 
> "I want to be with the Magic. I love it here."
> "I changed my mind. Things aren't working out. I want to go somewhere else."
> "I changed my mind. I talked to the GM and I can see me staying now."
> "I changed my mind. I want to leave again. But I get to pick and choose where I go."
> 
> If you're a skilled player in todays NBA you can act like a spoiled brat and shaft the team that drafted you with your prima dona demands.
> 
> I hope they find a way to get rid of this bullshit.


It hasn't really hurt his image in my eyes. The Magic had the easiest player in the world to build around for seven years and couldn't put anything great together except for one year. That's pretty embarrassing.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



VanillaPrice said:


> It hasn't really hurt his image in my eyes. The Magic had the easiest player in the world to build around for seven years and couldn't put anything great together except for one year. That's pretty embarrassing.


They made plenty of moves. People act see a trade like the Chris Paul one that just went down and think its childs play for any GM to just go out and get a superstar to play with their team.

The Magic tried a whole lot of different ways to build around Dwight. It didn't work, but it wasn't for a lack of trying.

What moves were out there that you would have made that Orlando didn't?


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> They made plenty of moves. People act see a trade like the Chris Paul one that just went down and think its childs play for any GM to just go out and get a superstar to play with their team.
> 
> The Magic tried a whole lot of different ways to build around Dwight. It didn't work, but it wasn't for a lack of trying.
> 
> What moves were out there that you would have made that Orlando didn't?


They gave Rashard Lewis a bigger contract than LeBron James has ever had. They traded a then promising rookie in Courtney Lee for a washed up and terrible Wince Harder. They got rid of their second best player in Hedo Turkeyglue after their finals run. They traded for Gilbert freaking Arenas.

Need I go on?


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

I'm so ****ing sick of hearing about "Superbitch" Dickwight Howard. **** this ****, he may be a good center - But stop whining and bitching you little prick, and finish the rest of your contract out in Orlando!


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



jaw2929 said:


> I'm so ****ing sick of hearing about "Superbitch" Dickwight Howard. **** this ****, he may be a good center - But stop whining and bitching you little prick, and finish the rest of your contract out in Orlando!


Yeah, because Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen played out their respective contracts in Minny and Seattle, right? You tell 'em!


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



VanillaPrice said:


> They gave Rashard Lewis a bigger contract than LeBron James has ever had. They traded a then promising rookie in Courtney Lee for a washed up and terrible Wince Harder. They got rid of their second best player in Hedo Turkeyglue after their finals run. They traded for Gilbert freaking Arenas.
> 
> Need I go on?


They trade Hedo when his value was at its highest. If they had kept him you'd be saying how overpaid he was.

Shard got his contract before the team was a contender. Orlando paid money to bring in the best guy they could, he didn't pan out. Courtney Who?

They traded for Gilbert because again Howard was hinting that the team around him wasn't good enough.


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> They trade Hedo when his value was at its highest. If they had kept him you'd be saying how overpaid he was.
> 
> Shard got his contract before the team was a contender. Orlando paid money to bring in the best guy they could, he didn't pan out. Courtney Who?
> 
> They traded for Gilbert because again Howard was hinting that the team around him wasn't good enough.


Well they ended up retarding for an older crappier Hedo anyways.

Don't try and make excuses for a team that payed Rashard Lewis 120 million dollars because all you're going to do is look silly.

Yes, Howard hinted that his team sucked. So what did Otis do? Make them worse and in a much worse financial situation.

The Magic's management sucked.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> They trade Hedo when his value was at its highest. If they had kept him you'd be saying how overpaid he was.
> 
> Shard got his contract before the team was a contender. Orlando paid money to bring in the best guy they could, he didn't pan out. Courtney Who?
> 
> They traded for Gilbert because again Howard was hinting that the team around him wasn't good enough.


The Magic didn't trade Hedo, they refused to overpay him (at least at the time).

But to VanillaPrice -- you do realize that regardless of how much Rashard Lewis was being paid, the Magic would've never won the Eastern Conference without him right? The mismatch created by having he and Turkoglu on the court was one of the biggest reasons they had success that season.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> Shard got his contract before the team was a contender. Orlando paid money to bring in the best guy they could, he didn't pan out. Courtney Who?


Not good enough. They paid superstar money for a fringe all-star.

You win in this league by having great players. Orlando kept handicapping themselves with shitty contracts, and as a result didn't have the flexibility or the assets to go get anybody. It's their own fault.



hobojoe said:


> The Magic didn't trade Hedo, they refused to overpay him (at least at the time).
> 
> But to VanillaPrice -- you do realize that regardless of how much Rashard Lewis was being paid, the Magic would've never won the Eastern Conference without him right? The mismatch created by having he and Turkoglu on the court was one of the biggest reasons they had success that season.


So what? They didn't win the championship. That team overachieved.


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



hobojoe said:


> The Magic didn't trade Hedo, they refused to overpay him (at least at the time).
> 
> But to VanillaPrice -- you do realize that regardless of how much Rashard Lewis was being paid, the Magic would've never won the Eastern Conference without him right? The mismatch created by having he and Turkoglu on the court was one of the biggest reasons they had success that season.


They probably could have signed him for 60-75% of that contract. 120 million dollars for 'Shard is and was absurd.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



VanillaPrice said:


> It hasn't really hurt his image in my eyes. The Magic had the easiest player in the world to build around for seven years and couldn't put anything great together except for one year. That's pretty embarrassing.


Phoenix Suns have defined what is embarrassing in terms of terrible general management. Magic are mildly awkward at best. I don't think that I need to remind you what they screwed up do I? We are hoping that we trade our superstar, not hoping he doesn't leave. That's how badly the Suns' management has screwed up.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



hobojoe said:


> The Magic didn't trade Hedo, they refused to overpay him (at least at the time).
> 
> But to VanillaPrice -- you do realize that regardless of how much Rashard Lewis was being paid, the Magic would've never won the Eastern Conference without him right? The mismatch created by having he and Turkoglu on the court was one of the biggest reasons they had success that season.


I guess Kevin Garnett injured his knee after he stepped on Rashard Lewis's gigantic contract. This is the only relationship I can draw between the Magic winning the East and Rashard Lewis's contract.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



VanillaPrice said:


> Yeah, because Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen played out their respective contracts in Minny and Seattle, right? You tell 'em!


You do understand that Allen had zero desire to leave Seattle and that Garnett was initially angry with McHale for trading him without ever consulting him because he had no desire to leave Minnesota, right? 

He was very vocal about it over the years and you Laker fans all labeled him a "loser" because he wanted to win in Minnesota rather than abandoning the T'wolves. In short, neither of those guys ever asked out of their situation, because, after all, Garnett refused to sign an extension with Boston after the unofficial trade of the entire squad and the #5 pick in the 2007 draft for him. It was akin to Pierce refusing to sign an extension with the Trailblazers when Boston reached an agreement to deal him to Portland back in '05, because at the end of the day he wanted to win a title in Boston and not anywhere else.


----------



## lakeshows

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



VanillaPrice said:


> It hasn't really hurt his image in my eyes. The Magic had the easiest player in the world to build around for seven years and couldn't put anything great together except for one year. That's pretty embarrassing.


LOL that was the problem. Orlando tried to build around him. You can't do that. He doesn't have the offensive skill set to lead a team to a championship as the number one option. Yeah not even yet. 

You need a superstar who can dominate on the offensive end and that would probably work well with Dwight. The Magic tried hard to bring in complimentary offensive talent like Lewis, Hedo, Carter, Arenas, etc. He needs a superstar type player to take over for him and those types of superstars don't come very easily.

Orlando has at least tried to surround him with role players. You can't just get up and trade for a player like Lebron or DRose.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



lakeshows said:


> LOL that was the problem. Orlando tried to build around him. You can't do that. He doesn't have the offensive skill set to lead a team to a championship as the number one option. Yeah not even yet.
> 
> You need a superstar who can dominate on the offensive end and that would probably work well with Dwight. The Magic tried hard to bring in complimentary offensive talent like Lewis, Hedo, Carter, Arenas, etc. He needs a superstar type player to take over for him and those types of superstars don't come very easily.
> 
> Orlando has at least tried to surround him with role players. *You can't just get up and trade for a player like Lebron or DRose.*


Gasol, Melo, Nash, Amare, Lebron, Bosh, Paul, KG, Shaq, Deron Willaims, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Baron Davis and TMac (from Orlando) all changed teams during Dwight's time with the Magic, and all of them were pretty much still in their primes at the time they changed teams. It's not really that hard to acquire a superstar over a 7 year period.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



hobojoe said:


> The Magic didn't trade Hedo, they refused to overpay him (at least at the time).
> 
> But to VanillaPrice -- you do realize that regardless of how much Rashard Lewis was being paid, the Magic would've never won the Eastern Conference without him right? The mismatch created by having he and Turkoglu on the court was one of the biggest reasons they had success that season.


Like seifer said, Kevin Garnett's knee was the difference between a second-round exit and a trip to the Finals for Orlando. They very nearly lost anyway to a Boston squad down to its third-string power forward.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



E.H. Munro said:


> You do understand that Allen had zero desire to leave Seattle and that Garnett was initially angry with McHale for trading him without ever consulting him because he had no desire to leave Minnesota, right?


He clearly didn't realize any of that. I guess fans are so used to stars "demanding" stuff nowadays they assume if they're traded it's because they asked.



> He was very vocal about it over the years and you Laker fans all labeled him a "loser" because he wanted to win in Minnesota rather than abandoning the T'wolves.


I know you hate Laker fans, but not many of them actually said that. I do know Celtics fans on this site that called Dirk a "loser" for wanting to win in Dallas.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Most people I remember respected KG for still wanting to be with the Wolves after so many years of mediocrity.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Some respected KG, some thought he was stupid. Looking back, we can all see he was being stupid and today's player has learned from him(and to an extent Pau). An inept organization is just that. A superstar staying on the roster is not going to make them any less inept. As we can see by the fact that Otis Smith is still employed by the Magic. 

Really you get 1 shot, maybe 2. If you are lucky enough to draft a superstar, all your assets should be put toward getting the 2nd superstar. Every other concern(playing style, coach, depth) is trivial. If you are lucky enough to get engineer 2, evaluate if you have enough juice(assets) to get #3. If you were poorly managed (Clippers), usually you have to shoot your wad to get #2. Then you hope you can get enough good players to make that work. A team that is blowing it right before our eyes is the Thunder. They had two studs and are not looking to get #3. The fact that they did not pony up Harden, Ibaka, picks and whatever other loose change to get Howard is stupid. That is a fool's gold package that will have everyone praising the Magic on their haul while the Thunder waltz to a title. If you think Howard is going to leave money on the table to go to a worse basketball situation, you are crazy. He might not love OKC now but a title run tends to change feelings. Ask Chris Webber...


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

We don't agree.

You point to all these superstars demanding trades, how well has it worked for most of them really? KG and Ray don't count, seeing as how they wanted to stay with their respective teams, and while the Heat are expect to win sooner or later, they haven't yet and most of the world now despises them.

How many times has Vince Carter been traded? If he stayed with his original team do you think his legacy would look better when everything is said and done? I sure do. Thing is, the majority of "stars" who demand trades, the Vince Carter effect is more likely than the Gasol effect.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

LMAO...Chris Bosh says your fairy tale about a great legacy in Toronto under current management is stupid. Vince would be a puss wherever he went. 

Also, ask Mitch Richmond how great your legacy is playing for a crap organization. Do you want to weigh how Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond are seen? It is all about winning. The more your team wins, the better you seem to be seen as a player.

There is a reason why players are not trying to leave good organizations regardless of their personal situation as long as they get aid market value.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



MemphisX said:


> Some respected KG, some thought he was stupid. Looking back, we can all see he was being stupid and today's player has learned from him(and to an extent Pau). An inept organization is just that. A superstar staying on the roster is not going to make them any less inept. As we can see by the fact that Otis Smith is still employed by the Magic.
> 
> Really you get 1 shot, maybe 2. If you are lucky enough to draft a superstar, all your assets should be put toward getting the 2nd superstar. Every other concern(playing style, coach, depth) is trivial. If you are lucky enough to get engineer 2, evaluate if you have enough juice(assets) to get #3. If you were poorly managed (Clippers), usually you have to shoot your wad to get #2. Then you hope you can get enough good players to make that work. A team that is blowing it right before our eyes is the Thunder. They had two studs and are not looking to get #3. The fact that they did not pony up Harden, Ibaka, picks and whatever other loose change to get Howard is stupid. That is a fool's gold package that will have everyone praising the Magic on their haul while the Thunder waltz to a title. If you think Howard is going to leave money on the table to go to a worse basketball situation, you are crazy. He might not love OKC now but a title run tends to change feelings. Ask Chris Webber...


You know who looks stupid? The people that called Dirk an idiot for sticking with Dallas in the summer of 2010. There were several on this board.

Salvatore Fan tasty gas would be stupid if he left the Clippers to try to win on R-stars team and piggy back off of Voshon Lenard.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



MemphisX said:


> LMAO...Chris Bosh says your fairy tale about a great legacy in Toronto under current management is stupid. Vince would be a puss wherever he went.
> 
> Also, ask Mitch Richmond how great your legacy is playing for a crap organization. Do you want to weigh how Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond are seen? It is all about winning. The more your team wins, the better you seem to be seen as a player.
> 
> There is a reason why players are not trying to leave good organizations regardless of their personal situation as long as they get aid market value.


I'm glad you "LMAO" and all, but what world are you living in where Chris Bosh is viewed in a better light right now legacy wise? He went from being a star/superstar player in TO, to being part of the big 3, to now being a supporting player to the big 2. Also, sure Vince is viewed as a puss, but whats your point? Bosh is viewed as one of the softest bigs out there and has been called out by the likes of KG and Shaq. 

As I said, you really just don't understand the game.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Jamel Irief said:


> You know who looks stupid? The people that called Dirk an idiot for sticking with Dallas in the summer of 2010. There were several on this board.
> 
> Salvatore Fan tasty gas would be stupid if he left the Clippers to try to win on R-stars team and piggy back off of Voshon Lenard.


Voshon can carry anyone to a title.

And yes, I'm sure Dirk is kicking himself for not listening to guys like Memphis X.

We've found something we agree on. A strange start to the day indeed.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

We both agree that the best bacon comes from Canada.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Big difference between Dallas and Orlando. Dirk has played with about 10 players better than the best teammate Dwight has had in Orlando.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Jamel Irief said:


> We both agree that the best bacon comes from Canada.


I hardly ever get to enjoy it. My wife doesn't eat pork.


----------



## GNG

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Dwight's image took a hit a while ago. He was pounding on his Bible like he was Tim Tebow, even while Tim Tebow was still in high school, and it wasn't long after that the baby-mama was discovered.

Now he leads the league in technicals every year.


----------



## Porn Player

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> I hardly ever get to enjoy it. My wife doesn't eat pork.


That's strange considering she ate mine.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

We can sit here and talk about loyalty all we want but as far as I'm concerned when you're on the court and your best players are Hedo Turkoglu, Glen Davis, Ryan Anderson, and Jameer Nelson all bets are off. Theres no point in bringing Vince/Bosh/Dirk or even Lebron's situation into this. Everyone's case is different and what's right for someone like Dirk isn't right for someone like Dwight.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



seifer0406 said:


> We can sit here and talk about loyalty all we want but as far as I'm concerned when you're on the court and your best players are Hedo Turkoglu, Glen Davis, Ryan Anderson, and Jameer Nelson all bets are off. Theres no point in bringing Vince/Bosh/Dirk or even Lebron's situation into this. Everyone's case is different and what's right for someone like Dirk isn't right for someone like Dwight.


I don't listen to the stuff about his teammates. Someone brought up the fact that if he'll go to New Jersey but not Chicago proves it's not about winning.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> I hardly ever get to enjoy it. My wife doesn't eat pork.


Is she jewish or terrorist?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Jamel Irief said:


> I don't listen to the stuff about his teammates. Someone brought up the fact that if he'll go to New Jersey but not Chicago proves it's not about winning.


I don't think that proves anything. Perhaps in Dwight's mind the tandem of Dwight+Deron is better than Dwight+Rose. Maybe he doesn't like Derrick Rose? Who knows?

I mean the reason why Dwight is even asking to be traded is because of winning. I really don't see why else he would be doing it.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Dwight or Williams and Dwight or Rose is irrelevant when you look at the rest of the respective rosters. The Bulls bench would give the Nets starters without Williams a challenge.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



MemphisX said:


> Big difference between Dallas and Orlando. Dirk has played with about 10 players better than the best teammate Dwight has had in Orlando.


So do you still think Dirk should have left?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Hyperion said:


> Is she jewish or terrorist?


Jeworrist?

Seventh Day Adventist.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Porn Player said:


> That's strange considering she ate mine.


I set you up for an easy home run there.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> I hardly ever get to enjoy it. My wife doesn't eat pork.


She's a vagitarian?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Jamel Irief said:


> Dwight or Williams and Dwight or Rose is irrelevant when you look at the rest of the respective rosters. The Bulls bench would give the Nets starters without Williams a challenge.


I really don't see that being much of a factor in Dwight's eyes. The supporting cast can be improved when the stars are in place. Especially in NJ's case they got a rich boss and the team doesn't have bad contracts. You make a signing here and pick up an amnesty'd player there and before you know it it's a much better team.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



E.H. Munro said:


> She's a vagitarian?


After a couple more years of being married to R-Star..... probably.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> Jeworrist?
> 
> Seventh Day Adventist.


ah, yes them too. I have only run into like 5 Adventists


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



seifer0406 said:


> I really don't see that being much of a factor in Dwight's eyes. The supporting cast can be improved when the stars are in place. Especially in NJ's case they got a rich boss and the team doesn't have bad contracts. You make a signing here and pick up an amnesty'd player there and before you know it it's a much better team.


What amnestied player? Arenas? The same guy people are harping on Orlando for trying to surround Dwight with? A guy like Shard? Hedo? Carter?

People like to say how easy it is to get quality role players, it isn't. There's a reason why guys like Haslem don't move around in the league often, and when they do its because they're overpaid.

There's a difference between having Troy Murphy on your bench and having a top quality role player on your bench. Its not an easy task to round out a team.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

It really isn't unless you have a completely different system than other teams. Orlando has a very traditional system.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> What amnestied player? Arenas? The same guy people are harping on Orlando for trying to surround Dwight with? A guy like Shard? Hedo? Carter?
> 
> People like to say how easy it is to get quality role players, it isn't. There's a reason why guys like Haslem don't move around in the league often, and when they do its because they're overpaid.
> 
> There's a difference between having Troy Murphy on your bench and having a top quality role player on your bench. Its not an easy task to round out a team.


Amnesty clause can be used after this season as well. I don't know who's going to be available after this year but my guess is there will be someone out there that the Nets can use.

Moreover there are still some guys that are playing overseas that haven't returned to the league. You pick up a guy like Kenyon Martin or AK47 and your bench becomes much better. It's just not that big of an issue in my eyes.  The important thing is that the Nets right now have a manageable roster contract wise and they have an owner that's willing to spend.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Let's say the Nets trade Brook Lopez/Okur/Humphries/picks for Dwight and Turkoglu. They sign Andrei Kirilenko (shouldn't be too hard with the Russian connection) and Kenyon Martin and pick up Gilbert Arenas off the amnesty list. Their roster for this year would be

Dwight
Ak47
Turkoglu
Anthony Morrow
Deron Williams

Jordan Farmar
Kenyon Martin
Gilbert Arenas
DeShawn Stevenson
Johan Petro

It's really not that bad of a foundation for 1st year. You can build on that in the offseason and turn it into an contender.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Hyperion said:


> It really isn't unless you have a completely different system than other teams. Orlando has a very traditional system.


I don't agree. It took the Mavs years to get the right mix of players. Its not like the majority of them were new additions. Bringing in Chandler was the final piece of the puzzle for them, and what happened? He left to get his pay day. Its hard to keep a group of championship caliber role players on a team. And for most teams, it takes years to get the right mix.

If Miami had a reliable scorer/role player off the bench last year, its a good chance they would have won.


----------



## M.V.W.

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



seifer0406 said:


> I don't think that proves anything. Perhaps in Dwight's mind the tandem of Dwight+Deron is better than Dwight+Rose. Maybe he doesn't like Derrick Rose? Who knows?
> 
> I mean the reason why Dwight is even asking to be traded is because of winning. I really don't see why else he would be doing it.


Probably not! The two are friends but I know Howard doesn't like the cold plus I read something about an Adidas sponsorship.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> I don't agree. It took the Mavs years to get the right mix of players. Its not like the majority of them were new additions. Bringing in Chandler was the final piece of the puzzle for them, and what happened? He left to get his pay day. Its hard to keep a group of championship caliber role players on a team. And for most teams, it takes years to get the right mix.
> 
> If Miami had a reliable scorer/role player off the bench last year, its a good chance they would have won.


I was agreeing with you that it's difficult to sign a team around a superstar. the only real way is to draft well to get quality role players along with their superstar draft pick.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Hyperion said:


> I was agreeing with you that it's difficult to sign a team around a superstar. the only real way is to draft well to get quality role players along with their superstar draft pick.


Yep.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Nothing that leads to a title is ever "easy", but with a great passer in Williams and a defensive anchor/dominant rebounder in Howard its not going to be particularly hard to find players to fill around.

Howard is a one man offensive line, he takes care of the trenches by himself...you put him oncourt and you no longer have rebounding or defense issues because he's down there. I mean he had small fowards playing 4 next to him and was winning 50-60 games.

I wouldnt worry at all about building around Howard or Deron because they both dominate in areas that are at a premium and once you have those guys you can be flexible.

The Spurs had Parker and Duncan and had a new supporting cast every 2 years. The Nets could do the same thing.

The Heat are having trouble with roleplayers because they're lacking in spots that aren't easy to find. An efficient PG and post scorer are dearth positions.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Nothing that leads to a title is ever "easy", but with a great passer in Williams and a defensive anchor/dominant rebounder in Howard its not going to be particularly hard to find players to fill around.

Howard is a one man offensive line, he takes care of the trenches by himself...you put him oncourt and you no longer have rebounding or defense issues because he's down there. I mean he had small fowards playing 4 next to him and was winning 50-60 games.

I wouldnt worry at all about building around Howard or Deron because they both dominate in areas that are at a premium and once you have those guys you can be flexible.

The Spurs had Parker and Duncan and had a new supporting cast every 2 years. The Nets could do the same thing.

The Heat are having trouble with roleplayers because they're lacking in spots that aren't easy to find. An efficient PG and post scorer are dearth positions.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

I've said from the beginning. Shaq got to play with Penny, Wade, Kobe, Lebron, Nash, Amare, KG, Pierce, Rondo, Allen. All of those players are better than the best player Howard got to play with. However, going to the Nets is not going to lead to a title. If he wants to win one, he will go out West. The teams who have the roster to trade for him are Memphis/OKC. He wants to live in a big city. I conclude he is more than likely an idiot.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



HKF said:


> I've said from the beginning. Shaq got to play with Penny, Wade, Kobe, Lebron, Nash, Amare, KG, Pierce, Rondo, Allen. All of those players are better than the best player Howard got to play with. However, going to the Nets is not going to lead to a title. If he wants to win one, he will go out West. The teams who have the roster to trade for him are Memphis/OKC. He wants to live in a big city. I conclude he is more than likely an idiot.


You know what's funny though? Shaq never played with anyone who got paid as much as Rashard Lewis.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

If he really wants to win, he should go to the Pacers for Hibbert and Granger.

That's just one mans take on the whole thing though.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

He's not thirsty for rings, he just wants to compete enough for people to not think he's a loser. He's lucky LeBron is in the league otherwise he'd be under a bigger microscope. I feel like people look at him as just another all star when realistically he should be expected to get like 3-5 rings.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Dre said:


> He's not thirsty for rings, he just wants to compete enough for people to not think he's a loser. He's lucky LeBron is in the league otherwise he'd be under a bigger microscope. I feel like people look at him as just another all star when realistically he should be expected to get like 3-5 rings.


With the big men around the league today? Yea, he should win some rings.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Dwight for Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka + picks + filler.

Get it done!!!


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Dwight wants to win, what NBA player doesn't? Do you know what NBA players like more than winning? Money. Is he an idiot for wanting more money? No.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

He doesn't need a big market to make money. He's doing commercials out of Orlando. He kind of acts like a big child. Children don't have reasoning. You need to be decisive in your actions. This is his 8th year in the league. He is already halfway through his career.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Hyperion said:


> Dwight wants to win, what NBA player doesn't? Do you know what NBA players like more than winning? Money. Is he an idiot for wanting more money? No.


Of course he would rather win but he's fixated on being the next Ocho Cinco and fails to realize with winning rings the limelight will come to you.

Hes just too physically superior to want to just have a pretty good career, get to the 2nd round then go shoot a movie or reality show. But I mean its his life of course.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

He wants to be in movies? Who better to cast for the long awaited Shazam 2?


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Steel 2
Double Team 2


----------



## hroz

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

Dwight is going to leave. There is no reason for him to stay. I mean the team has had terrible management. 

Though the Magic did get bailed out by the amnesty clause. 
Magic need to get rid of Turk in the trade.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

OKC or Chicago need to just step in and make a decent offer. Dwight's new team will be better for it and he'll absolutely sign an extension. There's no way he takes 20 million less to go to a worse situation.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....ening-to-trade-offers-from-all-teams/related/

Rent-A-Dwight.

Yeah, sure. Orlando is delusional.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Ron said:


> http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....ening-to-trade-offers-from-all-teams/related/
> 
> Rent-A-Dwight.
> 
> Yeah, sure. Orlando is delusional.


It's not that crazy, it's the logical conclusion to Dwight giving the Magic a list of three teams that don't have the assets to trade for him. He'll absolutely take the money and sign an extension if he winds up on a good team with a future, regardless if they we on his list.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Bogg said:


> It's not that crazy, it's the logical conclusion to Dwight giving the Magic a list of three teams that don't have the assets to trade for him. He'll absolutely take the money and sign an extension if he winds up on a good team with a future, regardless if they we on his list.


Like the Clippers? 

Seriously, I don't see any team falling for this bait. Howard has changed his mind so many times as to what he actually wants I really can't see any team taking this shot...you are talking long-term solid quality players. A team can ruin itself in this situation, and I don't think there is any precedence for it, actually.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Ron said:


> Like the Clippers?
> 
> Seriously, I don't see any team falling for this bait. Howard has changed his mind so many times as to what he actually wants I really can't see any team taking this shot...you are talking long-term solid quality players. A team can ruin itself in this situation, and I don't think there is any precedence for it, actually.


It's an open invitation for OKC to offer Westbrook, Boston to get creative with Rondo and the three first rounders they have to trade, or Chicago to give up on Boozer. What that linked article boils down to is essentially "Otis Smith has not restricted trade talk to the Lakers, Nets, and Mavericks". When the two deals on the table are Bynum, trash, and a pick or Lopez, Gerald Wallace, and a pick it makes perfect sense that the Magic have decided to look elsewhere.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Bogg said:


> It's an open invitation for OKC to offer Westbrook, Boston to get creative with Rondo and the three first rounders they have to trade, or Chicago to give up on Boozer. What that linked article boils down to is essentially "Otis Smith has not restricted trade talk to the Lakers, Nets, and Mavericks". When the two deals on the table are Bynum, trash, and a pick or Lopez, Gerald Wallace, and a pick it makes perfect sense that the Magic have decided to look elsewhere.


Bynum, a pick and trash, or Lopez, Wallace and a pick is still a hell of a lot better than saying Chicago is going to structure a deal around Boozer.

With his contract and performance this year and last season, Boozer if anything adds negative value in a trade. Not a centerpiece for getting Dwight Howard.


That being said, I get what you're saying.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> Bynum, a pick and trash, or Lopez, Wallace and a pick is still a hell of a lot better than saying Chicago is going to structure a deal around Boozer.
> 
> With his contract and performance this year and last season, Boozer if anything adds negative value in a trade. Not a centerpiece for getting Dwight Howard.
> 
> 
> That being said, I get what you're saying.


Wouldn't it be assumed that Noah would be included in any Howard deal? A deal structured around Noah, Boozer, and picks, plus another player or two for Dwight and Hedo's deal(plus a player or two) is worth considering. Rose-Rip-Deng-Gibson-Howard coached by Thibs would be crazy defensively, and gives Orlando something to show their fans.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



Bogg said:


> Wouldn't it be assumed that Noah would be included in any Howard deal? A deal structured around Noah, Boozer, and picks, plus another player or two for Dwight and Hedo's deal(plus a player or two) is worth considering. Rose-Rip-Deng-Gibson-Howard coached by Thibs would be crazy defensively, and gives Orlando something to show their fans.


If thats the case Noah would be the centerpiece then. All I was trying to say.

Nit picking I guess.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando ends trade talks for D12, who again demands to be traded*



R-Star said:


> If thats the case Noah would be the centerpiece then. All I was trying to say.
> 
> Nit picking I guess.


Fair enough, I suppose I could have worded the initial post better. I meant it more along the lines of Chicago doesn't make that move unless they think Boozer won't come around, not that he's a centerpiece that teams want to give up a guy like Howard for.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

Just come to the Lakers already.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*



VanillaPrice said:


> Just come to the Lakers already.


Only if Kobe agrees to make another picture like the one in your avatar.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

Orlando has no incentive to make a deal. Any deal they could make now they could make at the deadline. Howard has limited them to teams that can not offer them anything of real value, and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that they could get a better deal from a team that was willing to gamble. I would be looking to get Horford from Atlanta. If you got him and unloaded a couple of bad deals by taking Johnson that would beat anything that has been proposed short of getting both Gasol (probably what Gasol brings from a 3rd team) and Bynum.

If you are the Hawks the risk is obviously worth taking. You'd have a decent team around Howard, you'd excite your fanbase and you'd be giving Howard a really stark choice. If he left then his ass would be leaving a lot of money and alienating the city where he grew up. You'd have a good chance of keeping him.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

The musical chairs of the past 2 years is slowing down and the options are slim for Dwight. I knew someome would get the short end of the stick but I thought it would be Paul especially with the NBA handcuffing him.

Dwight just might end up somewhere he doesn't want and have to sign that extension.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

The musical chairs of the past 2 years is slowing down and the options are slim for Dwight. I knew someome would get the short end of the stick but I thought it would be Paul especially with the NBA handcuffing him.

Dwight just might end up somewhere he doesn't want and have to sign that extension.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*



R-Star said:


> Only if Kobe agrees to make another picture like the one in your avatar.


Only if it's Josh McRoberts holding Mr. Bean instead of Shaquille.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

I wouldn't hate Dwight on the Hawks. I'm a casual Hawks fan due to living in the Atlanta area and watching the best center in the world 5-10 times a year live would be nice. It would probably stir a lot of excitement over the hawks too, because nobody gives a damn about them at this point.

I still want him in purple and gold though.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

Here's a crazy thought.

Clippers package something around griffin without giving up Paul. 

Should they do it?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*



Dee-Zy said:


> Here's a crazy thought.
> 
> Clippers package something around griffin without giving up Paul.
> 
> Should they do it?


No.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

Nope, wouldn't do it. No guarantee they can win before Paul or Howard slow down. Griffin gives them a hedge that when Paul goes Steve Nash, Griffin will just be entering his prime.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*



MemphisX said:


> Nope, wouldn't do it. No guarantee they can win before Paul or Howard slow down. Griffin gives them a hedge that when Paul goes Steve Nash, Griffin will just be entering his prime.


Steve Nash is 37. Last year at 36 (10 years older than Paul is now) he averaged 15 and 11. 

Why everyone acts like its the end of the world when a player gets 30 or older is beyond me.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

A player being very productive in his mid 30 is rare for every Steve Nash there is around 10 Vince Carters or Tracy McGradys that struggle to just be rotation player in their 30's when they loses their athleticism.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*



Knicks4life said:


> A player being very productive in his mid 30 is rare for every Steve Nash there is around 10 Vince Carters or Tracy McGradys that struggle to just be rotation player in their 30's when they loses their athleticism.


Vince and Tracy are both guys who rely on athleticism. Guys like that always fall off when they age or start suffering recurring injuries. 

Paul is a pass first point guard. Steve Nash is a pass first point guard. Paul isn't going to forget how to pass when he turns 30.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

This is such a shitshow..Dwight has no idea where he wants to go


----------



## 29380

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

Dwight knows where he wants to go, the Nets the Magic are just waiting it out trying to get Bynum and Gasol from the Lakers.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

The Nets don't have what it takes to get him though, which automatically takes them off the list and muddies things


----------



## 29380

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

But that pretty much applies to everyone on his list the Mavs have no one to trade and the Lakers are not going to trade Gasol and Bynum without a commitment to resign which Dwight will not give if Kobe is the only one there.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

This is getting annoying.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

I was reading where the Lakers at one point were the frontrunner, but to paraphrase the source "Kobe messed it up--that's all I can say for now"

I wonder what that means. People were saying Kobe shooting so much and going on that 40 point streak was his way of rebutting Dwight's concerns about his age (that he heard through the grapevine). Maybe he overdid it?


----------



## Ron

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*



Dre said:


> I was reading where the Lakers at one point were the frontrunner, but to paraphrase the source "Kobe messed it up--that's all I can say for now"
> 
> I wonder what that means. People were saying Kobe shooting so much and going on that 40 point streak was his way of rebutting Dwight's concerns about his age (that he heard through the grapevine). Maybe he overdid it?


The story is for shit.

How can anyone know what Dwight said to Kobe and vice-versa, unless Dwight is talking to someone? (And that has not been shown to be the case.) I think someone at poops world just shroomed and wrote yet another story full of bullshit, just to get more clowns to read their ****ed-up site.

Having said that, I can't imagine the Lakers giving up both big men to rent jesus for the remainder of the season. DH is such a flake there is no way they can rely on him to resign. I'm not making that move; hell, I am not even moving Bynum for Howard straight up anyway (as all of you know by now).


----------



## Dre

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

It wasn't Hoopsworld. 

And the league talks. Just because the general public isn't privy doesn't mean all these agents, scouts, front office people, players handlers etc. don't converse and get out the stories they need. 

Would you like for whoever Dwight was talking to to say it on ESPN and blow his cover? Don't know exactly how that can be proven to be the case without betraying confidences or risking tampering

Kobe and Dwight _had_ been talking on the phone at least earlier this season, Kobe was trying to get him over there just like he was Paul. Don't know if they still are. I imagine they'll talk at All-Star though...and I bet Kobe wins all-star MVP again


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Howards wants a trade; Orlando wants to "rent him"*

Yet another guy I loved to cheer for, who I'm now starting to dislike. I mean, hes not chasing around cameras going "Hey! HEY! Aren't you going to ask me where I'm going to play next year? I might leave Cleveland, who knows!", but still, this is ridiculous. People can do their whole song and dance about how its his right and whatever, but if he wanted out, he should have talked to Otis about it and kept the **** quiet after that. 

Man you have to feel for the Magic. They're going to be bottom feeders without him. Its a good thing they have superstar Ryan Anderson to build around.


----------



## Ron

*Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibility"*

.
.
.


> *Marc Stein* ‏ @ESPNSteinLine
> RT @usat_jzillgitt: Dwight Howard tells USA TODAY trade request still stands but staying in Orlando is "big possibility"


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

And this:



> *Marc Stein* ‏ @ESPNSteinLine
> RT @usat_jzillgitt: Dwight concluded interview w/this: "Kobe (Bryant) asked to be traded and look what happened." - Link


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I really think it'd be interesting if Orlando refused to trade him and refused to facilitate a sign a trade, daring him to walk away from $30 mil.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

He'd rather stay in Orlando it seems like. Who knows where this shitshow will conclude at...my bets are Dallas.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> He'd rather stay in Orlando it seems like. Who knows where this shitshow will conclude at...my bets are Dallas.


I agree.

Dwight walks away from the Magic and signs with Dallas in the off-season.

Orlando ****s themselves over again. Idiots.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

$30 million reasons to stay in Orlando.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

30m can be got a few different ways and he's young enough to make it back - does orlando really want to play that game of chicken?


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I don't know that the stakes don't merit a roll of the dice for the Magic. What they are being offered is essentially the right to overpay guys who are not going to make them a competitive ball club and some unappealing draft picks. Of course the chance you take is that you would be able to create a situation where Howard would be able to save face by claiming that he believed you were going to put a contending team around him. I am not sure how you do that really, but the thing that would make sense would be to get Deron to come South somehow.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Hyperion said:


> $30 million reasons to stay in Orlando.


No, he can make it up on his next contract and/or double his take on endorsements...besides, there's a pride factor at work as well, and he might just say "**** you" to the Magic for not honoring his trade request.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I hope the Magic refuse to trade. Otherwise like Diable said, they're just flooring a "meh" team that looks forward to first round sweeps year after year and can't get high draft picks to build through.

Call Dwights bluff. If he leaves, whatever. Helps the league out in the long run, and Orlando does a traditional rebuild. Wont be long before they draft another star, or sign one like they did TMac and Hill.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> No, he can make it up on his next contract and/or double his take on endorsements...besides, there's a pride factor at work as well, and he might just say "**** you" to the Magic for not honoring his trade request.


You seem to change your opinion whenever it looks like the Lakers could benefit. 

Dwight Howard is a franchise. He isn't going to make one penny more in endorsements by changing teams, just like Lebron didn't.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Ofcourse LeBron didnt get more endorsements by changing teams, he went to Miami and unless you are spanish looking to expanding your brand into the latino market that type of move does not help you.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Knicks4life said:


> Ofcourse LeBron didnt get more endorsements by changing teams, he went to Miami and unless you are spanish looking to expanding your brand into the latino market that type of move does not help you.


He moved from Cleveland man. Cleveland. And he isn't making more in endorsements. He wouldn't be making more with any team. Not the Lakers, not anyone. Hes Lebron ****ing James. Companies aren't saying "Well, if he played in LA and not Miami we'd offer him a deal." Just like they aren't for Howard. Kyrie Irving would makie a shit ton more in endorsements if he played for a big market team. But he isn't a global superstar, face of the industry type player like Bron, Howard, Wade, Kobe, etc.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

You can't compare leaving Cleveland and going to Miami to going to New York or LA, from a marketing point of view Cleveland and Miami are the same. In a NY or LA you have more exposure and easy access to different types of media outlets which makes you more valuable to endorsers which increases the amount they are willing to pay you.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Knicks4life said:


> You can't compare leaving Cleveland and going to Miami to going to New York or LA, from a marketing point of view Cleveland and Miami are the same. In a NY or LA you have more exposure and easy access to different types of media outlets which makes you more valuable to endorsers which increases the amount they are willing to pay you.


Cleveland and Miami are the same? No. They aren't. 

And no, a guy like Lebron wouldn't make more in LA or NY. Tell me what NY or LA only companies are going to give him this money.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> No, he can make it up on his next contract and/or double his take on endorsements...besides, there's a pride factor at work as well, and he might just say "**** you" to the Magic for not honoring his trade request.


No, his next contract would have $30 million less if it's not from orlando. It's not just the extra year, but also more each year. Living in LA means nothing now that there's a world market. A player can be Michael Jordan in advertising while playing for a small team in the midwest. These guys are as big as they can get. Shaq was just as marketed nationally when he was on the Magic as he was in LA. Other than his brief foray into film, his brand actually suffered moving to LA.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

so the Magic keep him until the end of the year and he walks - it is still worth an extra 30m to him to work out an S&T so they get something back (like, say, a 23 year old all star center and a couple draft picks)


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> You seem to change your opinion whenever it looks like the Lakers could benefit.
> 
> Dwight Howard is a franchise. He isn't going to make one penny more in endorsements by changing teams, just like Lebron didn't.


I don't know where you read anything into what I wrote that I changed my opinion.

I still want my team to remain the same, with Bynum at the anchor.

I think you have a little trouble reading the screen while drunk, R-Star. Need to lay off the booze so late at night. Really.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

LeBron isn't making more in endorsements because he was already making more than about 99% of athletes in Cleveland. In fact it might've been easier for him in Cleveland without the villain label. It has nothing to do with city honestly. 

When you go into a big city it's less about endorsements than it is entertainment connections and being able to buy into deals. Look at Amare. He's not on any commercials, but he started a clothing line or some shit...did the cover of that fashion magazine...it's New York centric stuff. Shaq got into LA centric stuff. Miami centric stuff would be....a starfish Island mansion and TMZ headlines most likely. So yeah you better keep nice with the endorsements you have and win rings to get the big fish after you.

You people underestimate these execs at these companies. Like, these people go to school for 4+ years for this, they're not dummies. You think someone at the top of their sport has to move to a big city to get their attention? You think if LeBron went to New York some guy at McDonalds would be like "I don't know who he is or where he came from...but he's putting up numbers in New York, we should talk to him."? Stop with the "endorsements" shit, come on.

And this is *not* a statement relative to Dwight's situation, I'm just talking about LeBron.

I feel like Dwight wants to be the next Ochocinco more than he wants to win, he just doesn't want to admit that and get stoned for it.


----------



## Ben

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I don't have a link, it's from a Spanish site apparently, that has leaked trades involving Spanish players before (I actually got this from the NBA thread on WrestlingForum), but what do you guys think of this rumoured imminent trade?:

Wolves get Pau Gasol
Lakers get Dwight Howard, Michael Beasley & J.J. Barea
Magic get Andrew Bynum & Derrick Williams

Of course, I highly doubt this will happen. Beasley was linked with the Lakers a week or so ago..


----------



## Porn Player

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I actually like it.

However, I don't see the Wolves giving up both Beas and Williams


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> I don't know where you read anything into what I wrote that I changed my opinion.
> 
> I still want my team to remain the same, with Bynum at the anchor.
> 
> I think you have a little trouble reading the screen while drunk, R-Star. Need to lay off the booze so late at night. Really.


Wasn't drinking Ronald, I just find your "Lebron James is the devil for leaving his team" but at any chance to get Paul or Dwight you've suddenly changed your tune, to be quite funny.


Also, I find it funny that the owner of the site throws out personal insults on a daily basis when someone disagrees with him.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



ßen said:


> I don't have a link, it's from a Spanish site apparently, that has leaked trades involving Spanish players before (I actually got this from the NBA thread on WrestlingForum), but what do you guys think of this rumoured imminent trade?:
> 
> Wolves get Pau Gasol
> Lakers get Dwight Howard, Michael Beasley & J.J. Barea
> Magic get Andrew Bynum & Derrick Williams
> 
> Of course, I highly doubt this will happen. Beasley was linked with the Lakers a week or so ago..


Must be a Laker fan

And why do these scenarios always include multiple players for just Pau


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> Must be a Laker fan
> 
> And why do these scenarios always include multiple players for just Pau


Yea, Beasley, Williams and Barea for Pau is pretty steep.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> so the Magic keep him until the end of the year and he walks - it is still worth an extra 30m to him to work out an S&T so they get something back (like, say, a 23 year old all star center and a couple draft picks)


The problem with Bynum and one or two draft picks at the bottom of the first round is that he's good enough to keep you from being one of the worst teams in the league, but he isn't one of those top-ten guys that put you in position to win your division every year, and the Magic are capped out so they can't bring in any other players for two years. It's why the Magic are holding out for Bynum _and_ Gasol, because they literally might be better bottoming out with cap space and draft picks than they would be with building around Bynum.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> The problem with Bynum and one or two draft picks at the bottom of the first round is that he's good enough to keep you from being one of the worst teams in the league, but he isn't one of those top-ten guys that put you in position to win your division every year, and the Magic are capped out so they can't bring in any other players for two years. It's why the Magic are holding out for Bynum _and_ Gasol, because they literally might be better bottoming out with cap space and draft picks than they would be with building around Bynum.


Yep. If I'm the Magic and I know I'm losing Dwight, I'd rather blow it up and build through the draft and start freeing up cap space for big name FA's to build around. Dwight might not want to play there, but Orlando has brought in big name FA's before, they could again in a few years.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

how did those FAs do for them? history of injuries, barely kept their heads above .500 and enjoyed a series of first round exits


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> how did those FAs do for them? history of injuries, barely kept their heads above .500 and enjoyed a series of first round exits


That's nothing Bynum is going to change. 

If the Lakers are smart, they dump Bynum for the most they can get for him right now. Guys 24 with a huge injury history, and now hes getting his knees lubed? Doesn't sound promising to me that hes already having to do all this precautionary shit.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

2 years isn't a long time. Make the playoffs then go after who you want in 2014 or whatever. You guys fail to understand Owners can blow it up, but GMs can't. Otis can't sign his death certificate by coming away with nothing here. It sounds easy to say on a message board, but you can't just absolutely suck as a GM and expect to keep your job. 

And Devos is 85 and doesn't want to rebuild. So he might be willing to take Bynum just to make the playoffs and see what else can happen transaction wise. 2 years is a long time in NBA terms, you never know who might come on the block.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> 2 years isn't a long time. Make the playoffs then go after who you want in 2014 or whatever. You guys fail to understand Owners can blow it up, but GMs can't. Otis can't sign his death certificate by coming away with nothing here. It sounds easy to say on a message board, but you can't just absolutely suck as a GM and expect to keep your job.
> 
> And Devos is 85 and doesn't want to rebuild. So he might be willing to take Bynum just to make the playoffs and see what else can happen transaction wise. 2 years is a long time in NBA terms, you never know who might come on the block.


I'm saying its what I'd do. I don't expect it to happen though.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

who are you going to sign? Deron Williams (unlikely) or ???


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

http://www.elnuevodia.com/serumoraqueloslakersestandetrasdebarea-1198812.html

There is a link to the Lakers/Minny/Orlando rumor. It's from a Puerto Rican newspaper. Supposedly they broke the Barea signing before anyone else.

As far as the Wolves side of the deal, Beasley is probably gone after this season and could most likely be had on his own for a pick. So they are basically talking Barea and Williams for Gasol. Not that crazy, although I think they should be going after a wing like Kevin Martin instead.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> who are you going to sign? Deron Williams (unlikely) or ???


Who knows what will happen. My plan if I were them would be a high draft pick in next year and the year afters draft to get a good 1-2 combo, and then signing the best players the can to build around their new core. 

Hard to say right now who'd be available.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> http://www.elnuevodia.com/serumoraqueloslakersestandetrasdebarea-1198812.html
> 
> There is a link to the Lakers/Minny/Orlando rumor. It's from a Puerto Rican newspaper. Supposedly they broke the Barea signing before anyone else.
> 
> As far as the Wolves side of the deal, Beasley is probably gone after this season and could most likely be had on his own for a pick. So they are basically talking Barea and Williams for Gasol. Not that crazy, although I think they should be going after a wing like Kevin Martin instead.


Its rumored he could be had for a pick. Not much solid behind it though. And even if he could be had for a pick, that doesn't make him a throw in. You'd think the Lakers would have to throw in a 1st or two.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Its rumored he could be had for a pick. Not much solid behind it though. And even if he could be had for a pick, that doesn't make him a throw in. You'd think the Lakers would have to throw in a 1st or two.


Maybe they would. But at the end of the day the Wolves are still trading three bench players for one of the best bigs in the game. Like I said, I think they should go after a wing and I could understand why they might not do it, but I don't think it is outlandish.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> http://www.elnuevodia.com/serumoraqueloslakersestandetrasdebarea-1198812.html
> 
> There is a link to the Lakers/Minny/Orlando rumor. It's from a Puerto Rican newspaper. Supposedly they broke the Barea signing before anyone else.
> 
> As far as the Wolves side of the deal, Beasley is probably gone after this season and could most likely be had on his own for a pick. So they are basically talking Barea and Williams for Gasol. Not that crazy, although I think they should be going after a wing like Kevin Martin instead.


so the Magic get Williams and Bynum

the Lakers get Howard, Beasley and Barea?

and the TWovles get Gasol?

actually not a fan of this


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Maybe they would. But at the end of the day the Wolves are still trading three bench players for one of the best bigs in the game. Like I said, I think they should go after a wing and I could understand why they might not do it, but I don't think it is outlandish.


Not outlandish. If they get Pau and a first or two its realistic. I don't think its a good move for a young team building towards the future, but we've all seen GM's make stupider moves than that over the years.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> so the Magic get Williams and Bynum
> 
> the Lakers get Howard, Beasley and Barea?
> 
> and the TWovles get Gasol?
> 
> actually not a fan of this


Strengthens the 1,3 and 5 but leaves you with no one for the 4.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Its rumored he could be had for a pick. Not much solid behind it though. And even if he could be had for a pick, that doesn't make him a throw in. You'd think the Lakers would have to throw in a 1st or two.


the Wolves need to throw him in to make the money work and the Lakers netting Beasley, Barea and Howard for Pau and Bynum get mildly screwed - Beasley's a head case working his way onto his third team in as many seasons


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Not outlandish. If they get Pau and a first or two its realistic. I don't think its a good move for a young team building towards the future, but we've all seen GM's make stupider moves than that over the years.


There are a young team but they are still in the playoff hunt. If they get Gasol they are in the playoffs. If they can also add a guy like Kevin Martin with all the expiring/non-guaranteed contracts they have they are in business. I'm just not sure whether they are willing to spend the money.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Strengthens the 1,3 and 5 but leaves you with no one for the 4.


I'd rather trade for Sessions and pick up Arenas to get some scoring off the bench and just roll the dice with this core one last time and see what happens with Howard and Williams this summer


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> And Devos is 85 and doesn't want to rebuild. So he might be willing to take Bynum just to make the playoffs and see what else can happen transaction wise. 2 years is a long time in NBA terms, you never know who might come on the block.


That's the entire reason he doesn't want Bynum and low firsts. Because the entire situation starts all over again this summer. Only now the Magic wouldn't have a top 5 p[layer to trade but a guy with an injury history longer than Long Dong Silver with an equally long history of only being motivated in contract years. 

Essentially they'd either be forced to either bet $90 million on a guy that's a ginormous question mark or essentially trade Howard for a collection of picks at the end of the first round. It's why this is going to have to be a three team deal and cost LA both Bynum and Gasol.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Otis is dumb because he shouldve been thinking about this 2 years ago. Orlando was a better team with Peitrus, VC, Gortat and Rashard, PLUS we were also in a much better cap position for this summer and/or the next. Instead takes the huge and unnecessary gamble of bringing in Hedo and Gilberts ridiculous contracts(two players who were having terrible seasons), and trades all of our best defenders and depth.

Dwight and Deron could have opted in and Orlando wouldve had a top of capspace in 2013, or we couldve amnestied Rashard and had a ton of capspace this summer w the new CBA. Instead we have Hedo, no Gilbert, no future, and BBD for 4 freaking yrs @ 6.5mil, instead of being patient and playing the cap game with a better roster. The front office is just dumb. 

Anyone paying attention shouldve known that if we really wanted to compete with Miami after LeDecision, we needed to clear cap to land Deron or CP3. I dont care that the owner is 85, that doesn't excuse u to just make dumb trades after dumb trades and claim ur trying to win now... It looks more like we're trying to destroy any hope we did have competing in the near future. Bass 4 BBD is just the icing on the cake. Once again we traded a better player, for a worse one on another terrible contract. 

2 years ago i may have been mad, but right now i can't blame Dwight for wanting to leave this mess and cant wait till we blow it up. We're not beating anyone of substance in the playoffs and we have no options to get any better since we're pretty much locked ourselves out of the CP3/Deron sweepstakes.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> how did those FAs do for them? history of injuries, barely kept their heads above .500 and enjoyed a series of first round exits


......and if Grant Hill hadn't destroyed his ankle in his last series as a Piston(literally almost died of a MRSA infection after one of his surgeries), they probably would have one the East one or three times. I don't see how Grant Hill's ankle means signing free agents is a bad idea.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Strengthens the 1,3 and 5 but leaves you with no one for the 4.


We'll give them BBD, and we'll take Beasley. No reason LA should get Howard and Bealey, we should get Beasley and any picks that are involved.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> ......and if Grant Hill hadn't destroyed his ankle in his last series as a Piston(literally almost died of a MRSA infection after one of his surgeries), they probably would have one the East one or three times. I don't see how Grant Hill's ankle means signing free agents is a bad idea.


aside from Shaq how many have ever won a team a title?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> We'll give them BBD, and we'll take Beasley. No reason LA should get Howard and Bealey, we should get Beasley and any picks that are involved.


first of all you (orlando) were going to get Williams and second We (the lakers) were getting screwed even if we did get beasley


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> There are a young team but they are still in the playoff hunt. If they get Gasol they are in the playoffs. If they can also add a guy like Kevin Martin with all the expiring/non-guaranteed contracts they have they are in business. I'm just not sure whether they are willing to spend the money.


They may alread make the playoffs. I don't think Pau turns them from a young team in the hunt into a contender though.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> I'd rather trade for Sessions and pick up Arenas to get some scoring off the bench and just roll the dice with this core one last time and see what happens with Howard and Williams this summer


Fair enough. I agree that the Lakers are a few tweaks (pg/sf) away from being a real contender.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> aside from Shaq how many have ever won a team a title?


Well, Bynum certainly doesn't win them a title, and they have no significant trade assets to speak of after Howard, so they're basically stuck waiting until they have cap flexibility to add around him or hoping that they hit a home run in the draft, which is the same position they'd find themselves in if they let Dwight walk. Except in this case, the draft picks will be worse and the cap space will be less/take longer to appear.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> first of all you (orlando) were going to get Williams and second We (the lakers) were getting screwed even if we did get beasley


LA gets a 25yr old Dwight Howard ready to sign an extension. They are not getting screwed. Orlando takes most of risk in an expiring Bynum with aching knees, a rookie who hasn't proven much, and Beasley who has only put up empty #'s. I'd roll the dice for that talent pool alone, but otherwise it's not that convincing for Orlando either. LA and Minny are the one's getting the sure things.


----------



## M.V.W.

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> aside from Shaq how many have ever won a team a title?


You mean a big?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



M.V.W. said:


> You mean a big?


He means free agent.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> aside from Shaq how many have ever won a team a title?


This is sort of disingenuous, as real free agency is less than a quarter century old in the NBA, a time period that coincided with the primes of Jordan, Olajuwon, Shaq, and Timmeh. You wouldn't expect many title winners that _didn't_ have a name from that list and only one of them ever went to free agency.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

so 25 seasons is too small a sample size? is that what you're arguing?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> LA gets a 25yr old Dwight Howard ready to sign an extension. They are not getting screwed. Orlando takes most of risk in an expiring Bynum with aching knees, a rookie who hasn't proven much, and Beasley who has only put up empty #'s. I'd roll the dice for that talent pool alone, but otherwise it's not that convincing for Orlando either. LA and Minny are the one's getting the sure things.


just remember one thing - Orlando is the franchise with a gun at their temple, Orlando is not going to get a dollar for a dollar any way you care to cut it, whether they trade him or let him walk they come out behind, the question is how far - the only way they win is if they can get him to extend and what are the chances of that?

and yes two all star bigs are worth more than Howard and a head case and a back up undersized scoring bench guard


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I dont understand the gun analogy, because Orlando doesn't need to make a deal... We're really not a contender anymore, so the question is simply whether the owner wants to do a complete rebuild or wants to try and continue as a marginal playoff team. And he has to make that decision regardless of Dwights decision, cuz in my opinion we shouldve been thinking rebuild 2 yrs ago(to restructure the team around Dwight w 2012/2013 capspace). Since he screwed up w the capspace and was unsuccessful, he would now have to figure another way to rebuild around Dwight which will likely be much more difficult. Im sure his decision to trade or not to will hinge largely on what offers are on the table.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> aside from Shaq how many have ever won a team a title?


Moses Malone


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> and yes two all star bigs are worth more than Howard and a head case and a back up undersized scoring bench guard


And if thats the decision then thats the decision. You have to give up value to get value. Ill just tell u now, dont be suprised when u dont get the HoF calibre player for the one-time all-star with shaky knees. Id rather get the top 10 pick from Brooklyn.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> I dont understand the gun analogy, because Orlando doesn't need to make a deal... We're really not a contender anymore, so the question is simply whether the owner wants to do a complete rebuild or wants to try and continue as a marginal playoff team. And he has to make that decision regardless of Dwights decision, cuz in my opinion we shouldve been thinking rebuild 2 yrs ago(to restructure the team around Dwight w 2012/2013 capspace). Since he screwed up w the capspace and was unsuccessful, he would now have to figure another way to rebuild around Dwight which will likely be much more difficult. Im sure his decision to trade or not to will hinge largely on what offers are on the table.


ok so you have until the middle of next month to move him on your terms or face the very real possibility that he walks leaving you without compensation (and Im sorry but 'cap space' is not compensation) - that's the gun

as for whether or not you're contenders you are obviously a lot closer with him on your team than with an extra 18m in cap space to be spent on who the hell knows and you are obviously a lot farther along on your rebuilding misssion if you can manage to get some value back for him that either equates to pieces you can move (vets) or potential youth (picks) instead of just a vacancy and cash (which btw means tanking next year and then hoping to lotto out because you wont be in the lottery this year (unless you trade him for pick and pieces now) - so that just pushes your rebuild pain into another season while you suck and you bank 18m of that potential FA whose name is what?)


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Knicks4life said:


> Moses Malone


was traded to Philly for Caldwell Jones and a 1st


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> ok so you have until the middle of next month to move him on your terms or face the very real possibility that he walks leaving you without compensation (and Im sorry but 'cap space' is not compensation) - that's the gun
> 
> as for whether or not you're contenders you are obviously a lot closer with him on your team than with an extra 18m in cap space to be spent on who the hell knows and you are obviously a lot farther along on your rebuilding misssion if you can manage to get some value back for him that either equates to pieces you can move (vets) or potential youth (picks) instead of just a vacancy and cash (which btw means tanking next year and then hoping to lotto out because you wont be in the lottery this year (unless you trade him for pick and pieces now) - so that just pushes your rebuild pain into another season while you suck and you bank 18m of that potential FA whose name is what?)


That's the logic Larry Bird used when the 61-win Pacers fell apart and it led to seven years of .500 or slightly worse basketball, leaving the Pacers stranded in no-mans land up until this year, when drafted players and cap space turned them into the third-best team in the East. No matter how much you argue otherwise, sometimes nothing IS better than something. Smith might make a dumb trade, but getting *only* Bynum leaves the Magic in worse shape than a few draft picks and cap space.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

doesnt have to be Bynum dont fixate on that (and the offer would probably include picks and a willingness to take on toxic contracts with the TPE anyway) - the question comes down to this - if you cant resign him do you let him walk and get nothing or do you capitulate and try to get something back

I can think of a team that let a big name FA walk without compensation, and just like the Pacers they went thru 7 or 8 years of mediocrity (or 12) after doing so too - you know which team I'm talking about? I'll give you hint, it took lucking out in the lottery and landing Dwight Howard to get them back into the finals - I guess they'll just have to wait on haley's comet to come back through if that's the path they want to take again this time

and btw most teams that get that close and go into rebuild go thru just what the pacers did and many never do get back (not everyone can be the lakers) it took the Pistons 15 years to get back, it took the Celtics more than 20, the Bulls still havent done it


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> was traded to Philly for Caldwell Jones and a 1st


He was not traded he signed there as a free agents and the Sixers were force to compensate the Rockets.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Knicks4life said:


> He was not traded he signed there as a free agents and the Sixers were force to compensated the Rockets.


actuallly what happened is that the Rockets exercised their option to match the offer and created a sign and trade situation - which no matter how you'd like to equivocate is (right there in the very name of the procedure) a trade

we are here debating whether the Magic should do that (seek a trade or 'sign and trade' situation) or just let Dwight walk without compensation so that's a cogent distinction


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Moses was an unrestricted free agent, back in the 70's and early 80's whenever a team signed a free agent the commissioner decided what the team who signed that free agent had to give to that free agent's original team as compensation.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Knicks4life said:


> Moses was an unrestricted free agent, back in the 70's and early 80's whenever a team signed a free agent the commissioner decided what the team who signed that free agent had to give to that free agent's original team as compensation.


nope sorry, he was a restricted free agent and the Rockets matched



> wiki: With Houston rebuilding their roster, the Rockets allowed restricted free agent Malone to explore options in the free agency market. He signed an offer sheet with the Philadelphia 76ers on September 2. Houston then exercised its right of first refusal and matched the offer, only to trade Malone to the 76ers on September 15 for Caldwell Jones and their 1983 first-round draft choice.


dont like wiki how about nba.com:



> Signed with Philadelphia 76ers, 9/2/82; Rockets matched offer, traded Malone to 76ers, 9/15/82
> 
> http://www.nba.com/history/players/malonem_summary.html (look down in the transactions)


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

My bad for some reason Basketball-Reference said that the transaction was a FA signing with compensation sent back to the Rockets.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> doesnt have to be Bynum dont fixate on that - the question comes down to this - if you cant resign him do you let him walk and get nothing or do you capitulate and try to get something back


It all depends on what you're getting back. If it gives you flexibility in your rebuilding or allows you to continue competing at a relatively high level, then you go with that deal. If it locks you into several seasons of striving to finish at .500, then you haven't done yourself any favors. It's the reason that Eric Gordon, a lottery pick, and bottoming out with cap space was a better trade than Kevin Martin, Scola, and Dragic. 



e-monk said:


> I can think of a team that let a big name FA walk without compensation, and just like the Pacers they went thru 7 or 8 years of mediocrity after doing so too - you know which team I'm talking about? I'll give you hint, it took lucking out in the lottery and landing Dwight Howard to get them back into the finals - I guess they'll just have to wait on haley's comet to come back through if that's the path they want to take again this time


A) That's an argument FOR my point, this Magic supporting cast isn't good enough to be mediocre. Orlando will be getting top draft picks immediately if Dwight leaves, not hovering around .500. JUST Bynum leads to them hovering around .500. Sometimes nothing is better than something, it just depends on what that something is. 

B) The Magic actually finished 1999 tied for the best record in the East(better than Shaq's Lakers). _That_ was a roster that could have benefited from getting a borderline all-star.

C)Had Grant Hill been healthy, the Magic probably would have won the East once or twice in the beginning of the 00s behind the strength of the two all-stars they signed in free agency and the rookie of the year they drafted in the lottery. The Magic's medical squad didn't do their jobs, but that doesn't mean the approach was wrong.




e-monk said:


> and btw most teams that get that close and go into rebuild go thru just what the pacers did and many never do get back (not everyone can be the lakers) it took the Pistons 15 years to get back, it took the Celtics more than 20, the Bulls still havent done it


How does this refute anything I've said?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Letting Dwight walk still keeps him on the team the rest of this year which keeps Orlando at or above .500 anyways. So that means Orlando's pick stays low. If I'm Orlando I take the deal for Bynum and our two firsts. Trading for Bynum makes Orlando worse this year which means their pick will be higher than it would be with Dwight there on top of adding two more firsts in a very deep draft to begin the rebuild. If they don't like Bynum they can let him walk next year and add some cap space or pick up his option and move him as an attractive expiring contract to acquire assets while still bottoming out for next years draft.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Orlando is in the Eastern Conference, if they want to tank they'll have to make a concerted effort. They are beating all the shit teams in the East now, which is why they have a good record on paper. Boston is likely going to make the playoffs and that team sucks. It's silly to talk about them improving their draft position because that would be harder than making the playoffs in the East. Honestly their winning percentage might stay about the same if they got Bynum, but that would not mean that they were a good team. They still would not be good enough to get anywhere in the playoffs.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Diable said:


> Orlando is in the Eastern Conference, if they want to tank they'll have to make a concerted effort. They are beating all the shit teams in the East now, which is why they have a good record on paper. Boston is likely going to make the playoffs and that team sucks. It's silly to talk about them improving their draft position because that would be harder than making the playoffs in the East. Honestly their winning percentage might stay about the same if they got Bynum, but that would not mean that they were a good team. They still would not be good enough to get anywhere in the playoffs.


Sooo..... Neither option works? 

What are you saying?


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Dwight will more than likely be traded before the deadline the Magic can't afford to lose their only trade asset and not use it to get rid of bad contracts.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> doesnt have to be Bynum dont fixate on that (and the offer would probably include picks and a willingness to take on toxic contracts with the TPE anyway) - the question comes down to this - if you cant resign him do you let him walk and get nothing or do you capitulate and try to get something back
> 
> I can think of a team that let a big name FA walk without compensation, and just like the Pacers they went thru 7 or 8 years of mediocrity (or 12) after doing so too - you know which team I'm talking about? I'll give you hint, it took lucking out in the lottery and landing Dwight Howard to get them back into the finals - I guess they'll just have to wait on haley's comet to come back through if that's the path they want to take again this time
> 
> and btw most teams that get that close and go into rebuild go thru just what the pacers did and many never do get back (not everyone can be the lakers) it took the Pistons 15 years to get back, it took the Celtics more than 20, the Bulls still havent done it


Look at the Cavs model. Or the Thunder model. 

Cavs got nothing for LeBron, but the reward for sucking was a much better and more appealing prize for the future(Kyrie Irving) than would be getting locked into a very fragile and expensive Bynum and just being average and getting Jimmer Freddett. Bynum is a complimentery piece, but u dont want to acquire Bynum as a rebuilding peice unless he was on a rookie scale deal. If u acquire Bynum, it would mean ur looking to win now and we wouldnt win with Bynum unless we got a little bit extra along with him...

The Thunder are another example. They didnt trade Allen and Lewis for slightly lesser value and try to be average, they let Lewis walk and traded Allen for a top 5 pick. The subsequent years they sucked but landed Durant, Westbrook and Hadron 3 years in a row and now are in a much better position.

I prefer the Thunder or Cavs model to the Pistons or Pacers model, where teams try to give huge salaries to complimentery players just to be average. Without a star player on the roster, u shouldnt be paying a complimentary piece more than 8mil. Bynum is not worth the $20mil/per he will likely command unless we get a Pau Gasol next to him. If not, id rather take Brook and the top 10 pick, or just let Dwight walk(ala Sonics/Cavs)



Knicks4life said:


> Dwight will more than likely be traded before the deadline the Magic can't afford to lose their only trade asset and not use it to get rid of bad contracts.


Yes we can. Our bad contracts are distributed to players who wont effect our ability to tank, so its not like dumping them immediately would make us more effective in our rebuilding. We're not landing a star in FA any time soon, so dumping them immediately isnt a necessity.. Landing Bynum and then giving him a $120mil contract is an example of the type of contract that we would be looking to dump 3-4 yrs from now...


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> Look at the Cavs model. Or the Thunder model.
> 
> Cavs got nothing for LeBron, but the reward for sucking was a much better and more appealing prize for the future(Kyrie Irving) than would be getting locked into a very fragile and expensive Bynum and just being average and getting Jimmer Freddett. Bynum is a complimentery piece, but u dont want to acquire Bynum as a rebuilding peice unless he was on a rookie scale deal. If u acquire Bynum, it would mean ur looking to win now and we wouldnt win with Bynum unless we got a little bit extra along with him...
> 
> The Thunder are another example. They didnt trade Allen and Lewis for slightly lesser value and try to be average, they let Lewis walk and traded Allen for a top 5 pick. The subsequent years they sucked but landed Durant, Westbrook and Hadron 3 years in a row and now are in a much better position.


The Cavs had no choice but to let Lebron walk. It's not because they had a "model", their hands were tied. Lebron never asked to be traded. There was no way the Cavs would've traded Lebron even if they knew that theres a good chance that he would leave. Moreover, the Cavs "model" worked out well because they drafted Kyrie Irving. Had the pingpong balls bounced another way we would be looking at few more extra years of complete suckage. Had Lebron asked to be traded, the Cavs would've been better off trading him for picks and unload bad contracts at the same time.

Orlando on the other hand is in a better position than the Cavs. Dwight has made it clear that he wants out. This is a major advantage for Orlando and it would be dumb if they don't take advantage of it. They should trade Dwight and get the most value out of him. Even if the piece they get back is Bynum it doesn't mean that they can't trade him for something else at a later date. Look at the Twolves when they traded KG. They got Al Jefferson in return and when that didn't work out they moved Jefferson for more picks.

imo theres just so much that needs to be fixed for Orlando for them to not at least use Dwight to jumpstart the process. If they play their cards right they not only can acquire picks but also remove some of their ridiculous contracts at the same time. Either way it's better than sitting around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for Dwight to leave.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

FYI the Cavs s&t'd Lebron and picked up a handful of first round picks in the exchange


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Sonics/Cavs model > TWolves model. 

Remember, this is Minny's 2nd rebuild attempt since they traded KG. The Al Jeff experiment was an unmitigated failure, just like the Bynum expiriment will be an unremitted failure. This is actually a good example though, because KG and Dwight are superstars who could carry teams, while Big Al and Bynum are not. 

Minnesota tried to build around Big Al like they did w KG and it didn't work. Al Jefferson is a complimentery piece. If you're paying him $15-20mil/per like a star, and at the same time trying to rebuild, its just not gonna work. He's not good enough by himself, and same with Bynum... paying him $15-20mil/per just to say you got something, is dumb. He's not good enough to be worth that money unless he's next to another star. But we all know he's gonna get that money, so i just hope its not in ORL. 

And the main difference between Minny and Orl situation is Minny also got a top 10 pick w a pre-injury Big Al, for a 32yr old KG. LA is offering a post-injury Bynum, plus 2 late 1sts for a prime Dwight Howard. GTFO.

Once Minny recognized what they were(that Al Jeff was NOT KG, and could not carry the team the same way), they dumped Al's salary and focused strictly on the youth movemement. Similarly, the sooner Orlando recognizes what they are w/o Dwight, the sooner they will have a competitve roster and the quicker the rebuild will be. 

Either let him walk or take the Brooklyn deal, is really the only two options if the management is competent(which i will give u, it is high;y questionable if they are or not). LA should clearly be out of the discussion right now. Unless they give up Bynum/Pau there is nothing to really even consider w them. They have no good picks, and old/damaged goods. 

But knowing Orlando Management, they will be thinking VERY short term and VERY near-sightedly, and will likely screw up the rebuild as will. Screwing up oppurtunities is what we seem to do best, so nothing would really surprise me.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> The Cavs had no choice but to let Lebron walk. It's not because they had a "model", their hands were tied. Lebron never asked to be traded. There was no way the Cavs would've traded Lebron even if they knew that theres a good chance that he would leave. Moreover, the Cavs "model" worked out well because they drafted Kyrie Irving. Had the pingpong balls bounced another way we would be looking at few more extra years of complete suckage. Had Lebron asked to be traded, the Cavs would've been better off trading him for picks and unload bad contracts at the same time.
> 
> Orlando on the other hand is in a better position than the Cavs. Dwight has made it clear that he wants out. This is a major advantage for Orlando and it would be dumb if they don't take advantage of it. They should trade Dwight and get the most value out of him. Even if the piece they get back is Bynum it doesn't mean that they can't trade him for something else at a later date. Look at the Twolves when they traded KG. They got Al Jefferson in return and when that didn't work out they moved Jefferson for more picks.
> 
> imo theres just so much that needs to be fixed for Orlando for them to not at least use Dwight to jumpstart the process. If they play their cards right they not only can acquire picks but also remove some of their ridiculous contracts at the same time. Either way it's better than sitting around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for Dwight to leave.


Sign and trade. Again, it almost seems like you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Sign and trade. Again, it almost seems like you don't know what you're talking about.


The Cavs got pretty much nothing for Lebron. Which if you actually read was in Blue's original post where he said



Blue said:


> Look at the Cavs model. Or the Thunder model.
> 
> *Cavs got nothing for LeBron*, but the reward for sucking was a much better and more appealing prize for the future(Kyrie Irving) than would be getting locked into a very fragile and expensive Bynum and just being average and getting Jimmer Freddett. Bynum is a complimentery piece, but u dont want to acquire Bynum as a rebuilding peice unless he was on a rookie scale deal. If u acquire Bynum, it would mean ur looking to win now and we wouldnt win with Bynum unless we got a little bit extra along with him...


And I agree with him. 2 picks in the 28-30th range and a couple of 2nd rounders is as close to nothing as you can possibly get.

But again, troll away if you must. I know you love it.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> The Cavs got pretty much nothing for Lebron. Which if you actually read was in Blue's original post where he said
> 
> 
> 
> And I agree with him. 2 picks in the 28-30th range and a couple of 2nd rounders is as close to nothing as you can possibly get.
> 
> But again, troll away if you must. I know you love it.


:laugh: so another "well what I really meant was"


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> Sonics/Cavs model > TWolves model.
> 
> Remember, this is Minny's 2nd rebuild attempt since they traded KG. The Al Jeff experiment was an unmitigated failure, just like the Bynum expiriment will be an unremitted failure. This is actually a good example though, because KG and Dwight are superstars who could carry teams, while Big Al and Bynum are not.


The Twolves got the 6th pick of the 09' draft in the KG deal. They messed that up by drafting Jonny Flynn but that's not really the point. They also got the 28th pick of that year which turned out to be Wayne Ellington. Again, the 28th pick is kind of irrelevant but the fact is that 6th pick could've been something useful.

I do agree that they made a mistake with Al Jefferson but even with the mistake they got draft picks in return when they moved him. Overall I would say the Wolves got a pretty decent return for KG. The fact that they made mistakes afterwards shouldn't tarnish the actual trade that took place.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Yeah, Cavs got something for LeBron's bird rights but pretty much got nothing for LeBron James himself. Which, imo, there is nothing wrong with that. If there's a 50% chance they couldve kept LeBron, u take that chance. 

But LeDecision changed the landscape, and what was good enough two years ago is not good enough anymore. Like i said before, its obvious Magic screwed up by trying to add marginal talent instead of gambling with cap to add a star and now we're in the same position as Cleveland... We are too far behind to contend, have no flex, and must face the real possibilty of losing Dwight.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

btw, let's not forget that it doesn't have to be Bynum. There are other suitors available. The point is Orlando should get something in return and move some bad contracts at the same time.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> The Twolves got the 6th pick of the 09' draft in the KG deal. They messed that up by drafting Jonny Flynn but that's not really the point. They also got the 28th pick of that year which turned out to be Wayne Ellington. Again, the 28th pick is kind of irrelevant but the fact is that 6th pick could've been something useful.
> 
> I do agree that they made a mistake with Al Jefferson but even with the mistake they got draft picks in return when they moved him. Overall I would say the Wolves got a pretty decent return for KG. The fact that they made mistakes afterwards shouldn't tarnish the actual trade that took place.


Sure. The Al Jefferson deal would be similar to the Brooklyn deal actually, cuz Al Jeff was on a rookie scale deal when he was traded, and they also recieved a top 10 pick... which is what Brooklyn is pretty much offering. 

Like i pretty much said, Minny got more for a 32yr old KG than what LA is offering for a prime Dwight Howard. The Minny package was decent and offered them flexibilty, and a good pick, but Dwight is not a past his prime KG. Basically, the lotto picks are the most valuable aspect but if there is even a 50% chance we keep Dwight, u dont do a deal without recieving quality picks + prospects on good salary, Or recieving multiple stars. So far no one is offering either... so, u keep Dwight and take a chance.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> btw, let's not forget that it doesn't have to be Bynum. There are other suitors available. The point is Orlando should get something in return and move some bad contracts at the same time.


That's all I'm arguing, that it's entirely dependent on the package you're getting in return and how it positions you for the future.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

There are plenty of options. For example.

Orlando trades

Dwight Howard
Hedo Turkoglu
Glen Davis

to Boston for

KG
Ray Allen
Jermaine O'neal
picks

How's this not a great trade for both sides? Boston gets a new big 3 in Dwight/Rondo/Pierce and Orlando cleans house with KG/Allen/O'neal coming off the books after this year. 

Or 

Orlando trades

Dwight
Turkoglu

to Portland for

Felton
Camby
Batum
Crawford
picks

Again, Orlando moves Hedo's contract, gets a nice young player in Batum and can tank next year. Dwight is happy in Portland because they can contend with a lineup of Dwight/Aldridge/Wallace/Matthews/unknown


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Wasn't drinking Ronald, I just find your "Lebron James is the devil for leaving his team" but at any chance to get Paul or Dwight you've suddenly changed your tune, to be quite funny.
> 
> 
> Also, I find it funny that the owner of the site throws out personal insults on a daily basis when someone disagrees with him.


Dude, if you aren't drinking, then you also aren't listening (or reading) as well.

1. I no longer own the site. I haven't owned the site since 2003. Nine years later and you think I still own the site? Where have you been, limbo?

2. I never said LBJ was a devil for leaving his team. I never had a problem with him leaving Cleveland. As a matter of fact, I am wondering why he signed an extension there in the first place. But I have always disagreed with the way he did it. "The Decision" is something he may never live down. Perhaps if he just wasn't so full of himself and then made a press release all would have been good. For me, that's all he should have done.

3. Your whole post above and this one as well mischaracterizes my position. I know you do this to others as well, then attack the mischaracterization. It's an old (very old) debating trick, and its quite transparent. Either you are doing it on purpose, in which case I must ask you to stop that, or you are totally whacked out and don't know what you are doing.

Get a hold of yourself, R-Star. Hang on tight. It's going to be another bumpy ride for you unless you get your facts straight. Straight up.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

If Brooklyn adds MarShon Brooks to their package though, i think that would be hard to turn down... Brooks + Lopez + 2012 1st is as a high level offer imo.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> I can think of a team that let a big name FA walk without compensation, and just like the Pacers they went thru 7 or 8 years of mediocrity (or 12) after doing so too - you know which team I'm talking about? I'll give you hint, it took lucking out in the lottery and landing Dwight Howard to get them back into the finals - I guess they'll just have to wait on haley's comet to come back through if that's the path they want to take again this time
> 
> and btw most teams that get that close and go into rebuild go thru just what the pacers did and many never do get back (not everyone can be the lakers) it took the Pistons 15 years to get back, it took the Celtics more than 20, the Bulls still havent done it


I'll also add... the Magic just had a GREAT chance to be a contender for several years to come and already blew their opportunity. Most teams dont get the opportunity we just had(Dwight's 1st 7 yrs, more particulary the last 2-3 yrs where he established himself). 

We have already made our bed by mismanaging cap, and putting ourselves in risky financial and structural positions, tampering w team chemistry, etc. And what your looking at is an exemplary example of mismanaging a superstar. Most teams dont get a better chance than what we just had the last several years. 

We made a run, but it wasnt good enough and now the landscape of the league is different. Everyone has an opinion on what strategy to rebuild is better, but lets not act like Orlando is gonna beat Miami in the playoffs in the next 5yrs anyway with what we've done w our cap/team.... We have no options. 

Without CP3 or DWill along w Dwight, we dont have much of a core to build around and just DWight isnt good enough by himself to beat an elite team 4 out 7. In order to adapt, we have to face the consequences of our decisions... and sometime Destroy and Rebuild is better than taking the biggest name.



seifer0406 said:


> There are plenty of options. For example.


In theory, sure... Except Dwight hasn't said he would re-sign with any of those teams.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> It all depends on what you're getting back.


isnt that up to the management to determine that? and at the end of the day isnt something better than nothing?



> A) That's an argument FOR my point, this Magic supporting cast isn't good enough to be mediocre. Orlando will be getting top draft picks immediately if Dwight leaves, not hovering around .500. JUST Bynum leads to them hovering around .500. Sometimes nothing is better than something, it just depends on what that something is.


actually just Bynum would be Bynum multiple first round picks and cap relief but regardless - as I said previously forget Bynum and focus on the question at hand: something or nothing - they got nothing before are they going to do that again?



> B) The Magic actually finished 1999 tied for the best record in the East(better than Shaq's Lakers). _That_ was a roster that could have benefited from getting a borderline all-star.


are you talking about the strike shortened season?

this team?:

1 Anfernee Hardaway 27 50 50 1944 301 717 .420 40 140 .286 149 211 .706 74 210 284 266 111 23 150 111 791 
2 Nick Anderson 31 47 39 1581 253 640 .395 96 277 .347 99 162 .611 51 226 277 91 64 15 83 72 701 
3 Darrell Armstrong 30 50 15 1502 230 522 .441 69 189 .365 161 178 .904 53 127 180 335 108 4 158 90 690 
4 Isaac Austin 29 49 49 1259 185 453 .408 2 7 .286 105 157 .669 83 154 237 89 47 35 114 125 477 
5 Horace Grant 33 50 50 1660 198 456 .434 0 2 .000 47 70 .671 117 234 351 90 46 60 44 99 443 
6 Matt Harpring 22 50 22 1114 148 320 .463 10 25 .400 102 143 .713 88 126 214 45 30 6 73 112 408 

one of my eyeballs just fell out of my ear from rolling so hard - come on man



> C)Had Grant Hill been healthy, the Magic probably would have won the East once or twice in the beginning of the 00s behind the strength of the two all-stars they signed in free agency and the rookie of the year they drafted in the lottery. The Magic's medical squad didn't do their jobs, but that doesn't mean the approach was wrong.


could of should of would of - what you are forgetting is that the Magic actually positioned themselves for a completely different free agent prize but he wound up staying in San Antonio




> How does this refute anything I've said?


how? with all this talk of different models? because most teams dont rebuild successfully regardless of the model - it's good management and good decision making and more than anything luck that does the trick


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> Look at the Cavs model. Or the Thunder model.
> 
> Cavs got nothing for LeBron,


false they got 3 firsts and a second (and could have gotten more if they'd controlled the process instead of being lead by the nose by Lebron)

forget Bynum - clearly if Otis Smith wants to focus on picks and space he can do that

he can do that on his own terms between now and mid-march or he can do that with a lot less leverage this summer and maybe wind up with nothing


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> I'll also add...
> Without CP3 or DWill along w Dwight, we dont have much of a core to build around and just DWight isnt good enough by himself to beat an elite team 4 out 7. In order to adapt, we have to face the consequences of our decisions... and sometime Destroy and Rebuild is better than taking the biggest name.
> .


you've completely misunderstood the tenor of the argument for the last 4 pages - congrats

here's the recap - people were saying call his bluff and let him walk without compensation

I was saying trade him by mid march or S&T him at the end of the season and get something - what that something constitutes is up to Otis (god help you)


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> Dude, if you aren't drinking, then you also aren't listening (or reading) as well.
> 
> 1. I no longer own the site. I haven't owned the site since 2003. Nine years later and you think I still own the site? Where have you been, limbo?
> 
> 2. I never said LBJ was a devil for leaving his team. I never had a problem with him leaving Cleveland. As a matter of fact, I am wondering why he signed an extension there in the first place. But I have always disagreed with the way he did it. "The Decision" is something he may never live down. Perhaps if he just wasn't so full of himself and then made a press release all would have been good. For me, that's all he should have done.
> 
> 3. Your whole post above and this one as well mischaracterizes my position. I know you do this to others as well, then attack the mischaracterization. It's an old (very old) debating trick, and its quite transparent. Either you are doing it on purpose, in which case I must ask you to stop that, or you are totally whacked out and don't know what you are doing.
> 
> *Get a hold of yourself, R-Star. Hang on tight. It's going to be another bumpy ride for you unless you get your facts straight. Straight up.*


Pardon? Shut up Ron. You want to run around and act like no ones allowed to talk back to you, go ahead. 

The fact that you run around insulting everyone, then threaten or ban when they stick up for themselves is pathetic. 


Keep going if you'd like. You can publicly ban me for not letting you insult me over and over again as well if you'd like. I'm tired of your old song and dance where you threaten me and then beg me to come back anyways.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Anyways, back to Dwight and the Magic. Draft picks and cap space make the most sense. I'd rather a top 10 pick in this years draft then Bynum based on his knee concerns. A few good picks in the draft and it doesn't take long to at least fight for the playoffs in the East again, and have some young talent for the fans to look forward to. 

Like someone said in here though, that all comes back on the owner. I know most teams fear the world rebuild.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> isnt that up to the management to determine that? and at the end of the day isnt something better than nothing?


Not always. The Pacers got back a pair of productive players in Dunleavy and Troy Murphy for Jackson and Harrington when it was clear that those two needed to go, but would have been better off dumping them for cap space and draft position. The "something" in question needs to either help you play at a high level now or afford you flexibility later.





e-monk said:


> actually just Bynum would be Bynum multiple first round picks and cap relief but regardless - as I said previously forget Bynum and focus on the question at hand: something or nothing - they got nothing before are they going to do that again?


This whole discussion originated from me saying that unless the Magic can either get Bynum _and_ Pau(or another high-level player from a third team) it makes no sense to deal with LA. I've never said they should let him walk regardless of what's offered, just that any trade they make has to make sense.





e-monk said:


> are you talking about the strike shortened season?
> 
> this team?:
> 
> 1 Anfernee Hardaway 27 50 50 1944 301 717 .420 40 140 .286 149 211 .706 74 210 284 266 111 23 150 111 791
> 2 Nick Anderson 31 47 39 1581 253 640 .395 96 277 .347 99 162 .611 51 226 277 91 64 15 83 72 701
> 3 Darrell Armstrong 30 50 15 1502 230 522 .441 69 189 .365 161 178 .904 53 127 180 335 108 4 158 90 690
> 4 Isaac Austin 29 49 49 1259 185 453 .408 2 7 .286 105 157 .669 83 154 237 89 47 35 114 125 477
> 5 Horace Grant 33 50 50 1660 198 456 .434 0 2 .000 47 70 .671 117 234 351 90 46 60 44 99 443
> 6 Matt Harpring 22 50 22 1114 148 320 .463 10 25 .400 102 143 .713 88 126 214 45 30 6 73 112 408
> 
> one of my eyeballs just fell out of my ear from rolling so hard - come on man


Yea, that team. The one that finished tied for first in the East. Stick a guy like Rik Smits or a sober Vin Baker on that squad and they'd have been a pretty interesting team on one of Penny's last good years. I don't think they make the Finals, but that's a squad worth adding a lone borderline all-star to. 





e-monk said:


> could of should of would of - what you are forgetting is that the Magic actually positioned themselves for a completely different free agent prize but he wound up staying in San Antonio


And they still wound up with one of the league's premier scorers/perimeter defenders and a perennial all-star who happened to be possibly the league's best do-it-all guy. Just so happened that Grant Hill destroyed his ankle in the playoffs for an exceedingly average Pistons team that got swept in the first round and their medical team didn't realize the severity of it. Orlando was a bad break(no pun intended) from competing for the Eastern crown every year at the start of that decade, even with Duncan staying in Texas.




e-monk said:


> how? with all this talk of different models? *because most teams dont rebuild successfully regardless of the model - it's good management and good decision making and more than anything luck that does the trick*


So there's no sense in having a strategy? Rebuilding is hard, but you have to have a long-term plan, you can't just grab the best player you can at every juncture regardless of price tag or fit.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> *false they got 3 firsts and a second* (and could have gotten more if they'd controlled the process instead of being lead by the nose by Lebron)
> 
> forget Bynum - clearly if Otis Smith wants to focus on picks and space he can do that
> 
> he can do that on his own terms between now and mid-march or he can do that with a lot less leverage this summer and maybe wind up with nothing


Sure, Miami voluntarily gave that for LBJs bird rights which isnt an uncommon procedure. Just like Orlando voluntarily gave up a pick for Rashard Lewis' bird rights, and can still recieve picks this summer for Dwight's bird rights, which is essentially what LA is offering Orlando anyway(late picks for Dwights bird rights). 

The important note in the situation is that when Clev traded Lebron, they didn't absorb an equal $20mil in salary, for talent that wasnt gonna make them a contender anyway. 

It's not about creating capspace in order to target a specific free-agent, it's about not taking in stupid contracts that will hinder flexibility and do nothing to increase ur ability to win a championship any sooner or later.

Clev didn't bring in any salary. That deal was simply a courtesy offer get LBJ more money. Orl will more than likely always have that same opportunity(to get late picks, 4 Dwight), if they chose not to do a deal b4 the deadline, due to holding his bird rights.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Not always. The Pacers got back a pair of productive players in Dunleavy and Troy Murphy for Jackson and Harrington when it was clear that those two needed to go, but would have been better off dumping them for cap space and draft position. The "something" in question needs to either help you play at a high level now or afford you flexibility later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This whole discussion originated from me saying that unless the Magic can either get Bynum _and_ Pau(or another high-level player from a third team) it makes no sense to deal with LA. I've never said they should let him walk regardless of what's offered, just that any trade they make has to make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, that team. The one that finished tied for first in the East. Stick a guy like Rik Smits or a sober Vin Baker on that squad and they'd have been a pretty interesting team on one of Penny's last good years. I don't think they make the Finals, but that's a squad worth adding a lone borderline all-star to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they still wound up with one of the league's premier scorers/perimeter defenders and a perennial all-star who happened to be possibly the league's best do-it-all guy. Just so happened that Grant Hill destroyed his ankle in the playoffs for an exceedingly average Pistons team that got swept in the first round and their medical team didn't realize the severity of it. Orlando was a bad break(no pun intended) from competing for the Eastern crown every year at the start of that decade, even with Duncan staying in Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there's no sense in having a strategy? Rebuilding is hard, but you have to have a long-term plan, you can't just grab the best player you can at every juncture regardless of price tag or fit.


Laker fans don't really understand a rebuild though. They've never had to go through one. They get stars through FA and/or trade. 

Hell, Bynum is the only good player that I can think of that was drafted by LA and has been brought along over the years. I guess you could count Kobe as well.


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> Dude, if you aren't drinking, then you also aren't listening (or reading) as well.
> 
> 1. *I no longer own the site. I haven't owned the site since 2003. Nine years later and you think I still own the site? Where have you been, limbo?*
> 
> 2. I never said LBJ was a devil for leaving his team. I never had a problem with him leaving Cleveland. As a matter of fact, I am wondering why he signed an extension there in the first place. But I have always disagreed with the way he did it. "The Decision" is something he may never live down. Perhaps if he just wasn't so full of himself and then made a press release all would have been good. For me, that's all he should have done.
> 
> 3. Your whole post above and this one as well mischaracterizes my position. I know you do this to others as well, then attack the mischaracterization. It's an old (very old) debating trick, and its quite transparent. Either you are doing it on purpose, in which case I must ask you to stop that, or you are totally whacked out and don't know what you are doing.
> 
> Get a hold of yourself, R-Star. Hang on tight. It's going to be another bumpy ride for you unless you get your facts straight. Straight up.



I wonder if the original owners can get back together and take over the site again. I like posting here because I like the old-timers but man this site in terms of posts has just gone downhill when it was bought out (I realize you weren't part of that final decision)

FYI, as a Cleveland fan I agree with your assessment. It wasn't that he left but the way he left was so irking. He knew he was gone for awhile and it would have been courteous to let the Cavs know early that they weren't in the running so the Cavs could have prepared better for post-Lebron era. Plus: Miami of all places? At least try to the be man and not join one of your top 2 rivals. It would have been different if he just said he was leaving early in the offseason because he didn't think he would win a title with the talent around him and thanks the fan with a nice ad in the newspaper.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> There are plenty of options. For example.
> 
> Orlando trades
> 
> Dwight Howard
> Hedo Turkoglu
> Glen Davis
> 
> to Boston for
> 
> KG
> Ray Allen
> Jermaine O'neal
> picks
> 
> How's this not a great trade for both sides? Boston gets a new big 3 in Dwight/Rondo/Pierce and Orlando cleans house with KG/Allen/O'neal coming off the books after this year.
> 
> Or
> 
> Orlando trades
> 
> Dwight
> Turkoglu
> 
> to Portland for
> 
> Felton
> Camby
> Batum
> Crawford
> picks
> 
> Again, Orlando moves Hedo's contract, gets a nice young player in Batum and can tank next year. Dwight is happy in Portland because they can contend with a lineup of Dwight/Aldridge/Wallace/Matthews/unknown


The Boston trade does make sense. Would give them a ton of room. Not sure if Boston has additional first rounders, but if they do getting 2-3 first would be great for Orlando.

Doesn't really matter though, Dwight has his list.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



> This morning we reported that the Magic had turned down a deal for Dwight Howard that centered around Andrew Bynum.
> 
> Now, John Cherwa of the L.A. Times is reporting that the teams are working on a restructured deal that will still send Howard to the Lakers, but will cost them both of their All-Star big men.
> 
> The Magic send Howard, Hedo Turkoglu and Jameer Nelson to the Lakers for Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum. The Toronto Raptors are also part of the rumor sending Jose Calderon to Orlando, although no one is quite sure what would complete that part of the trade.
> 
> The rumor also has all this happening on March 1.
> 
> This could help the Lakers in a variety of ways, including their troubles at the point guard position. Still, giving up both Gasol and Bynum is something the team has been previously unwilling to do.
> 
> If the trade does go down as rumored here, chalk it up to feelings of desperation in the Lakers front office.


http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-rumors-dwight-howard-lakers-deal-rumored-for-march-1/2012/02/26/


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> you've completely misunderstood the tenor of the argument for the last 4 pages - congrats
> 
> here's the recap - people were saying call his bluff and let him walk without compensation
> 
> I was saying trade him by mid march or S&T him at the end of the season and get something - what that something constitutes is up to Otis


Sure. Normally when ppl say "get something" for Dwight, they are referring to some sort of blockbuster deal where Orlando is at least taking in a cpl players though. I certainly misunderstood ur position if u are suggesting that a TPE and a cpl late 1sts and 2nds is what u meant by "something". 

Sure, that is "something", and im sure Orlando will recieve at least that if Dwight is in another city next year... I might even prefer that we just get that... It's just uncommon for ppl to refernce the TPE and the 1 or 2 late 1sts as "something", when talking about a top 3-5 player. People consider that as "not much" in reference to what was lost(unless the pick happens to turn into a tony parker type of player). 

People will always say things like "let him walk w/o compensation" when a player demands a trade, but common sense and history shows that teams will accept things to allow the player to keep bird rights. But to me that is splitting hairs. Trading him for a TPE and "letting him walk" are like saying the same things. I haven't read through the hole thread, so i wouldnt know what context ppl are using when they say "let him walk" or whatever, but sure take the tpe and the late pick if its there for u(which it im sure it will be).



> (god help you)


I certainly need it.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-rumors-dwight-howard-lakers-deal-rumored-for-march-1/2012/02/26/


So is Hedo your starting 4 then?

It fixes the issues at point, but gives you the same problem at the 4. Tough to say if its really going to improve the Lakers all that much.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I'd probably pull the trigger just because it would get us Dwight going forward, but I don't think that movw would put us in contention.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> So is Hedo your starting 4 then?
> 
> It fixes the issues at point, but gives you the same problem at the 4. Tough to say if its really going to improve the Lakers all that much.


Probably means the Lakers roll with Nelson, Bryant, Hedo, McRoberts, and Howard in their starting five.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

We still have our amnesty, so it can be used on Hedo to clear cap in the summer.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

can it? I thought you could only amnesty someone on your roster as of the agreement?


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

It's can be used for a contract that was signed before the lockout.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Laker fans don't really understand a rebuild though. They've never had to go through one. They get stars through FA


who besides Shaq in the history of the game and making the finals 50% of the time did the Lakers sign that lead them to the finals? answer: no one and no one else has managed that either, ever

so once, one time that worked 

but you guys are all prescribing that for Orlando: "let him walk, dont bother even going after cap space and draft picks, **** it you can just sign some free agents and win it all just like all those other teams that have done that" (which are none)


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> Sure. Normally when ppl say "get something" for Dwight, they are referring to some sort of blockbuster deal where Orlando is at least taking in a cpl players though. I certainly misunderstood ur position if u are suggesting that a TPE and a cpl late 1sts and 2nds is what u meant by "something".
> 
> Sure, that is "something", and im sure Orlando will recieve at least that if Dwight is in another city next year... I might even prefer that we just get that... It's just uncommon for ppl to refernce the TPE and the 1 or 2 late 1sts as "something".


are you at all familiar with the difference between 'something' and 'nothing'? keep in mind anything, players, picks, cap relief can be turned around into something else - veteran players can be flipped (eventually) to other teams for more picks or cap space for instance


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> who besides Shaq in the history of the game and making the finals 50% of the time did the Lakers sign that lead them to the finals? answer: no one and no one else has managed that either, ever
> 
> so once, one time that worked
> 
> but you guys are all prescribing that for Orlando: "let him walk, dont bother even going after cap space and draft picks, **** it you can just sign some free agents and win it all just like all those other teams that have done that" (which are none)



Yea.......you don't understand what most posters are proposing for Orlando after all.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> who besides Shaq in the history of the game and making the finals 50% of the time did the Lakers sign that lead them to the finals? answer: no one and no one else has managed that either, ever
> 
> so once, one time that worked
> 
> but you guys are all prescribing that for Orlando: "let him walk, dont bother even going after cap space and draft picks, **** it you can just sign some free agents and win it all just like all those other teams that have done that" (which are none)


Who exactly has said "**** it you can just sign a big name FA and win it all"?

No one. The point is, taking a trade for Bynum makes them a worse team, a team that can make the playoffs and do nothing else. If getting a big name FA is pretty much impossible like you say, then would it not make more sense to try to get your franchise guy(s) through the draft over the next few years? Thats where the "trade Howard for picks and cap space" idea comes from.


----------



## M.V.W.

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> can it? I thought you could only amnesty someone on your roster as of the agreement?


You're correct. Maybe they could buy him out.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



M.V.W. said:


> You're correct. Maybe they could buy him out.


Or, since between Kobe's monster contract, Dwight's max extension, and the contracts of Walton, Artest, Blake, and company, they'd never have cap space anyway, they might as well just pay him. It's not like the Lakers would have anyone else better at the forward spots.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Bynum, Gasol and Calderon for Dwight, Hedo and Jameer is a pretty darn good deal for the Magic IMO. Sign me up.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



hobojoe said:


> Bynum, Gasol and Calderon for Dwight, Hedo and Jameer is a pretty darn good deal for the Magic IMO. Sign me up.


Yep. If its a deal like that it changes my stance on a rebuild. Gasol and Dwight is enough to build a solid team around.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

How to beat this trade?
Melo/T Chandler for Howard/Hedo


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Man would the Knicks love that deal.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Yep. If its a deal like that it changes my stance on a rebuild. Gasol and Dwight is enough to build a solid team around.


Like I said, if they get Gasol as well that makes sense. Throw Jose at point, J-Rich has been serviceable enough, and the deal frees up the Magic to trade Ryan Anderson for a competent swingman. With the Knicks stocking up on 2s and 3s while being short on size, Anderson may be able to bring back Shumpert or Fields. That's a team that's good enough to warrant rolling with, even if they're probably not getting to the Finals.

EDIT: I didn't realize how well Anderson's playing until I just looked up his stats. He should actually be able to bring back both.

SECOND EDIT: Both may be overstating things. One and Walker, or a second rounder isn't though.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> who besides Shaq in the history of the game and making the finals 50% of the time did the Lakers sign that lead them to the finals? answer: no one and no one else has managed that either, ever
> 
> so once, one time that worked
> 
> but you guys are all prescribing that for Orlando: "let him walk, dont bother even going after cap space and draft picks, **** it you can just sign some free agents and win it all just like all those other teams that have done that" (which are none)


They also aren't going to turn vlade into kobe or kwame/draft picks into gasol. They also aren't going to get three no. 1 draft picks onto the same team like the lakers did with magic, worthy, and kareem.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Like I said, if they get Gasol as well that makes sense. Throw Jose at point, J-Rich has been serviceable enough, and the deal frees up the Magic to trade Ryan Anderson for a competent swingman. With the Knicks stocking up on 2s and 3s while being short on size, Anderson may be able to bring back Shumpert or Fields. That's a team that's good enough to warrant rolling with, even if they're probably not getting to the Finals.


They trade Anderson for Shumpert or Fields and they're actually looking like a better team in my eyes. At least for this year.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



> More than a few people in the know are convinced Howard will stay holed up in Orlando for the duration of the season. “I can tell you for a fact the Lakers offered Andrew Bynum and the Magic do not want him,” said a Western Conference executive.”


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/magic_kingdom_ransom_rj4s6vvwwG5y96M97eB9pO

The stars have been playing musical chairs...he just might be the one that ends up with his feet held to the fire by his incumbent team...and it's in part due to his indecision. If he _really_ wanted to go one place (besides Dallas) I'm going to bet he'd be there already.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> was traded to Philly for Caldwell Jones and a 1st


No, he wasn't. That was the agreed on compensation for the free agent signing, just as Cedric Maxwell was the price Boston agreed top pay for signing Bill Walton in '86.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> are you at all familiar with the difference between 'something' and 'nothing'? keep in mind anything, players, picks, cap relief can be turned around into something else - veteran players can be flipped (eventually) to other teams for more picks or cap space for instance


That's pretty much what I was saying. Blue has an one-track mind where getting Bynum or other players means that Orlando must build around *those players*. That's just not true. You should try to get the most out of the Dwight situation, how you go from there can be discussed later.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> That's pretty much what I was saying. Blue has an one-track mind where getting Bynum or other players means that Orlando must build around *those players*. That's just not true. You should try to get the most out of the Dwight situation, how you go from there can be discussed later.


The argument against that was that a high draft pick would be better for the Magic than having Bynum turn into their best player and then watch him leave or get overpaid. Also, clearing cap space is worth its weight in gold. So a high draft pick(s) and cap space would be better than Bynum.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ballscientist said:


> How to beat this trade?
> Melo/T Chandler for Howard/Hedo


Would not do that trade especially without a commitment from Dwight.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> The argument against that was that a high draft pick would be better for the Magic than having Bynum turn into their best player and then watch him leave or get overpaid. Also, clearing cap space is worth its weight in gold. So a high draft pick(s) and cap space would be better than Bynum.


And under no circumstances would that be true. Letting Dwight walk for nothing is the worst possible scenario for Orlando. Unless their GM loses his mind and trade Dwight for Rashard Lewis there is simply nothing worse that can happen for the Magic than to let Dwight walk for nothing.

Even if they do get Bynum and then watch him leave it's still better than letting Howard walk because

1. Orlando would be worse this year with Bynum than with Howard. The team would move up in the draft with a worse record.

2. Orlando would move bad contracts in the Howard trade. You at least can get Odom's 9 mil trade exception and either get rid of Glen Davis, J Rich, Q Rich, or Duhon.

3. Orlando will likely receive picks in the Bynum trade package, it wouldn't be a straight up trade.

You don't get any of this by letting Dwight walk. Orlando would end up with a pick in the 20-30 range this year, a roster filled with bad contracts, and no future picks.

If Bynum stays it's not really that bad either. There are different things that Orlando can do with Bynum if things don't work out. In fact I think you can still tank with Bynum on your roster. He isn't someone that would take a team from rock bottom to mediocre.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Knicks4life said:


> My bad for some reason Basketball-Reference said that the transaction was a FA signing with compensation sent back to the Rockets.


It was, more or less. Teams always worked out the compensation issues because the arbitrators were unreliable. So essentially what happened in those situations is that teams signing free agents worked out the deals with the agents, tendered the offer, and then worked out compensation with the other team before the two week deadline. 

It was a trade only in the technical sense, because there was no free agency in those days (real free agency didn't arrive in the NBA until the end of the 80s). So all free agent signings ended up being "trades" because free agent signings were always matched so that teams could maintain compensation. Hence the "trade" of Bob McAdoo for M.L. Carr and a #1, but what happened was Detroit tendered a contract to McAdoo and then agreed to the price of Carr & the #1 as compensation. Just as Houston accepted Jones and the #1 as compensation and the San Diego Clippers accepted Cedric Maxwell as compensation for Boston's offer to Walton.




e-monk said:


> so 25 seasons is too small a sample size? is that what you're arguing?


No, what I'm saying, rather explicitly, is that the free agent era has been dominated by a very small list of players, only one of whom ever went to free agency. So contrary to your opinion, it is in fact possible to win a title via free agency by signing a top five player. Because the one team that managed to sign one of those players won three titles as a result of the signing. Had Timmeh left San Antonio the odds are that his new team would have won one or more. Had Grant Hill not broken the Magic would probably have managed one as well, but that's a topic for another thread.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> And under no circumstances would that be true. Letting Dwight walk for nothing is the worst possible scenario for Orlando. Unless their GM loses his mind and trade Dwight for Rashard Lewis there is simply nothing worse that can happen for the Magic than to let Dwight walk for nothing.
> 
> Even if they do get Bynum and then watch him leave it's still better than letting Howard walk because
> 
> 1. Orlando would be worse this year with Bynum than with Howard. The team would move up in the draft with a worse record.
> 
> 2. Orlando would move bad contracts in the Howard trade. You at least can get Odom's 9 mil trade exception and either get rid of Glen Davis, J Rich, Q Rich, or Duhon.
> 
> 3. Orlando will likely receive picks in the Bynum trade package, it wouldn't be a straight up trade.
> 
> You don't get any of this by letting Dwight walk. Orlando would end up with a pick in the 20-30 range this year, a roster filled with bad contracts, and no future picks.
> 
> If Bynum stays it's not really that bad either. There are different things that Orlando can do with Bynum if things don't work out. In fact I think you can still tank with Bynum on your roster. He isn't someone that would take a team from rock bottom to mediocre.


Or they could trade him for picks and expirings, which is what I was talking about.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Or they could trade him for picks and expirings, which is what I was talking about.


The argument with Blue was that if the option is trade Dwight for Bynum or let Dwight walk for nothing, he would rather Dwight walk for nothing. What I am saying is letting Dwight walk for nothing should be the worst case scenario. 

There are tons of other possible trade scenarios but we're not interested in that. For Blue the Bynum trade is at the bottom when in fact Orlando doing nothing should be there instead.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

When you look at all the Cavs fans and Raptor fans that blame Lebron/Bosh for not telling their old teams of their intentions to leave, it's funny to see Orlando fans not appreciating Dwight for letting them know ahead of time. I don't know about Cavs fans but as a Raptor fan I know how much better and faster my team's rebuilding process would be had Bosh told us that he's leaving beforehand. 

Raptors and Cavs were forced to go down this path because of their stars. Dwight is doing a favor for Orlando by giving them a better option yet their fans aren't smart enough to appreciate him for it.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

If anything the general feeling I'm getting from Orlando fans is that they don't blame Dwight for wanting to leave, but they just don't have any faith in Otis Smith to make a good trade, even with the knowledge that Dwight doesn't plan on sticking around.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

LeBron probably didn't legitimately know until a couple days before the decision.

But come on Seifer you know everyone in the Raptors organization knew Bosh was gone, he probably told them as much. Seriously with the options he had what would make you think he'd want to stay.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Horseshit - Lebron is on record saying that he Bosh and Wade were talking about that kind of hook-up back on the 2008 olympic team - if he wasnt working with Cavs management to make it happen he sure as shit was working with someone else (er someone closer to South Beach, with better income tax provisions, better weather, hotter chicks, a handful of rings and slicked back hair)

I've always thought the Cavs not hearing about this until minutes before the broadcast was the biggest single indictment of Lebron's character


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> LeBron probably didn't legitimately know until a couple days before the decision.
> 
> But come on Seifer you know everyone in the Raptors organization knew Bosh was gone, he probably told them as much. Seriously with the options he had what would make you think he'd want to stay.


I agree that the Raptors organization probably knew as well. However like the Cavs it was hard for the team to trade their franchise player without the franchise player coming out and asking to be moved. Most GMs don't like to admit that they screwed up building around the player and would rather blame the player for not making the team a winner or a champion. The Cavs called Lebron a quitter and Bryan Colangelo blamed Bosh for not playing through injuries after they left.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Pardon? Shut up Ron. You want to run around and act like no ones allowed to talk back to you, go ahead.
> 
> The fact that you run around insulting everyone, then threaten or ban when they stick up for themselves is pathetic.
> 
> 
> Keep going if you'd like. You can publicly ban me for not letting you insult me over and over again as well if you'd like. I'm tired of your old song and dance where you threaten me and then beg me to come back anyways.


I see that you didn't actually address your mischaracterizations of my arguments.

So you feel threatened? Beg you to come back? Pardon me? As has been said many times, if it wasn't for me, you would have been whale shit here a long time ago. You have been given more rope than any poster on these boards...and you know it.

Check yourself. And be cool to other posters.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> I agree that the Raptors organization probably knew as well. However like the Cavs it was hard for the team to trade their franchise player without the franchise player coming out and asking to be moved. Most GMs don't like to admit that they screwed up building around the player and would rather blame the player for not making the team a winner or a champion. The Cavs called Lebron a quitter and Bryan Colangelo blamed Bosh for not playing through injuries after they left.


Ridiculous. Everyone wanted to trade Bosh in his last season or two with the Raps. No one would have blamed management and management knew that.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> I see that you didn't actually address your mischaracterizations of my arguments.
> 
> So you feel threatened? Beg you to come back? Pardon me? As has been said many times, if it wasn't for me, you would have been whale shit here a long time ago. You have been given more rope than any poster on these boards...and you know it.
> 
> Check yourself. And be cool to other posters.


:laugh: pretty sure I've never said the word whale shit before in my life. Nor do I think I'm here because of you.

Couple of things Ronny, A) thanks for coming back and furthering the discussion in this thread. Way to earn that blue name.

And B) Check myself? You're the one trying to throw their weight around (quite sadly). So again, shut up.


Enjoy your reply, I'm done derailing a thread. You should be too, but I guess we'll see eh buddy?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Ridiculous. Everyone wanted to trade Bosh in his last season or two with the Raps. No one would have blamed management and management knew that.


You're talking about the feelings of the hardcore fans which only makes up a tiny portion of the Raptors fanbase. We're talking about a city that lost stars throughout their history (Vince/T-Mac/Stoudamire). For the average fan Bosh was the face of the franchise and to trade him away without him asking for it would cause the Raptors a lot of casual fans.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> You're talking about the feelings of the hardcore fans which only makes up a tiny portion of the Raptors fanbase. We're talking about a city that lost stars throughout their history (Vince/T-Mac/Stoudamire). For the average fan Bosh was the face of the franchise and to trade him away without him asking for it would cause the Raptors a lot of casual fans.


No, you're talking about a fanbase that watches TSN and sportcenter as their only options, and has 1 team in the whole country. Bosh let everyone know he wanted out, it was speculated for his final 2 years, and the majority wanted someone to pull the trigger.

You don't get to just make things up Seifer.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> The argument with Blue was that if the option is trade Dwight for Bynum or let Dwight walk for nothing, he would rather Dwight walk for nothing. What I am saying is letting Dwight walk for nothing should be the worst case scenario.
> 
> There are tons of other possible trade scenarios but we're not interested in that. For Blue the Bynum trade is at the bottom when in fact Orlando doing nothing should be there instead.


There are way more variables than u are taking into consideration. There's still a 25-50% chance that Dwight stays in ORL. You dont just ship him out because there's a big name on the table, or because you fear the 50% chance he leaves you and what that looks like to get "nothing". That's still a 50% chance he stays, or the chance he opts-in for another year, and re-asses the market next year as well. 

There also isnt a "gun" to Orlando's head to do anything w LA, because they need Orlando to cooperate, if they want to be involved in any of this at all. NJ is the team w leverage, because they can make him an appealing offer w/o Orlando this summer. Even so, if he does chose to go to NJ, im sure Dwights agent is gonna find a way to work a s&t, so he can keep his bird-rights in-tact. So it's 99% likely ORL would still get "something" regardless of what decision they make at the deadline.

Point is, Orlando doesn't need to cooperate w LA because LA dont have NO capspace. LA needs to convince Orlando that their offer is worth giving up the 50% we have of keeping Dwight away from Brooklyn. And Brooklyn also has an offer that i would say is already better than LA's, cuz its a top 10 pick attached and its likely ORL doesn't want to invest in a guy who has been having knee problems since high-school. It's not just "dont take Bynum". It's more of, "Bynum is not worth forfeiting the chance of still keeping Howard", plus everything else ive already stated in this thread.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Ambergris is the proper name for whale shit. If it was freshly excreted then it would be proper to use it as a synonym for bullshit, but after it has aged for some time it develops a sweet smell and in the past it was extremely valuable as a component for perfumes, therefore it would be rather confusing to accuse R Star of producing anything like that.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Diable said:


> Ambergris is the proper name for whale shit. If it was freshly excreted then it would be proper to use it as a synonym for bullshit, but after it has aged for some time it develops a sweet smell and in the past it was extremely valuable as a component for perfumes, therefore it would be rather confusing to accuse R Star of producing anything like that.


You're saying R-Star can't be valuable perfume?


Are you still made about being outed for lying about who you chose to win the playoffs/finals last year? You kind of left that thread and never came back.


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Diable said:


> Ambergris is the proper name for whale shit. If it was freshly excreted then it would be proper to use it as a synonym for bullshit, but after it has aged for some time it develops a sweet smell and in the past it was extremely valuable as a component for perfumes, therefore it would be rather confusing to accuse R Star of producing anything like that.


Am I gonna get duck tanned by searching if this is true?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



TheAnswer said:


> Am I gonna get duck tanned by searching if this is true?


Classic


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> No, you're talking about a fanbase that watches TSN and sportcenter as their only options, and has 1 team in the whole country. *Bosh let everyone know he wanted out*, it was speculated for his final 2 years, and the majority wanted someone to pull the trigger.
> 
> You don't get to just make things up Seifer.


Good, find me one evidence where Bosh says that he wants out or mentions that he won't re-sign with the Raptors.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> Good, find me one evidence where Bosh says that he wants out or mentions that he won't re-sign with the Raptors.


His whole last season? And there's multiple Raptors posters on this forum, so time to quit acting like no one can swoop in and call you out on your bullshit.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> There are way more variables than u are taking into consideration. There's still a 25-50% chance that Dwight stays in ORL. You dont just ship him out because there's a big name on the table, or because you fear the 50% chance he leaves you and what that looks like to get "nothing". That's still a 50% chance he stays, or the chance he opts-in for another year, and re-asses the market next year as well.
> 
> There also isnt a "gun" to Orlando's head to do anything w LA, because they need Orlando to cooperate, if they want to be involved in any of this at all. NJ is the team w leverage, because they can make him an appealing offer w/o Orlando this summer. Even so, if he does chose to go to NJ, im sure Dwights agent is gonna find a way to work a s&t, so he can keep his bird-rights in-tact. So it's 99% likely ORL would still get "something" regardless of what decision they make at the deadline.
> 
> Point is, Orlando doesn't need to cooperate w LA because LA dont have NO capspace. LA needs to convince Orlando that their offer is worth giving up the 50% we have of keeping Dwight away from Brooklyn. And Brooklyn also has an offer that i would say is already better than LA's, cuz its a top 10 pick attached and its likely ORL doesn't want to invest in a guy who has been having knee problems since high-school. It's not just "dont take Bynum". It's more of, "Bynum is not worth forfeiting the chance of still keeping Howard", plus everything else ive already stated in this thread.


lol......50% of keeping Dwight Howard, Orlando fans are delusional.

On what planet do you see Dwight Howard spending the best years of his career playing with Hedo Turkoglu, Quentin Richardson, Chris Duhon, Jason Richardson, and Glen Davis. You guys have close to 30 mil of salary tied up on scrubs for the next 2-3 years. Orlando have no assets or cap space to make any improvements for the near future. That isn't going to change.

The guy is *gone*. It would be bad for Dwight's image as a team player if he declares that he is leaving midseason so he's always going to stop short from making things certain. However you won't find another case where it's more certain that a player is leaving than Dwight Howard's situation in Orlando.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> His whole last season? And there's multiple Raptors posters on this forum, so time to quit acting like no one can swoop in and call you out on your bullshit.


I'm waiting


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> I'm waiting


http://www.basketballforum.com/toro...r-drama-asking-fans-if-he-should-stay-go.html

A thread right under is listing the name of teams Bosh has told his agent he's willing to go to......

under that a thread saying "Bosh doesn't want to come back", etc.


Why do you even bother?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> lol......50% of keeping Dwight Howard, Orlando fans are delusional.
> 
> On what planet do you see Dwight Howard spending the best years of his career playing with Hedo Turkoglu, Quentin Richardson, Chris Duhon, Jason Richardson, and Glen Davis. You guys have close to 30 mil of salary tied up on scrubs for the next 2-3 years. Orlando have no assets or cap space to make any improvements for the near future. That isn't going to change.
> 
> The guy is *gone*. It would be bad for Dwight's image as a team player if he declares that he is leaving midseason so he's always going to stop short from making things certain. However you won't find another case where it's more certain that a player is leaving than Dwight Howard's situation in Orlando.


So Blue is an idiot for saying Dwight might stay with the Magic (a team way better than the Raps were when Bosh left)

But you're saying no one really knew if Bosh would leave (even though there's threads and articles making you look like an asshole).


Not much I can say. You're consistently wrong.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> *Bosh let everyone know he wanted out*


It's simple really. He let everyone know eh? How did he do that exactly?

Asking fans whether he should stay or leave is the best you can come up with?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> It's simple really. He let everyone know eh? How did he do that exactly?
> 
> Asking fans whether he should stay or leave is the best you can come up with?


Giving his agent a list of teams he is willing to be traded to?

But feel free to get into semantics with the whole "NO! NO! YOU SAID BOSH TOLD EVERYONE HE WANTED OUT! HE DIDN'T IN THOSE EXACT WORDS"

I'm tired of you, and I'm sure once again the point has been made regarding you and your posting quality/NBA knowledge.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> So Blue is an idiot for saying Dwight might stay with the Magic (a team way better than the Raps were when Bosh left)
> 
> But you're saying no one really knew if Bosh would leave (even though there's threads and articles making you look like an asshole).
> 
> 
> Not much I can say. You're consistently wrong.


I'm still waiting for you to show me where Bosh declared that he wants out of Toronto. Until you do that you're comparing apples with oranges.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> I'm still waiting for you to show me where Bosh declared that he wants out of Toronto. Until you do that you're comparing apples with oranges.


Just admit that he got you. It's getting kind of pathetic...


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Giving his agent a list of teams he is willing to be traded to?
> 
> But feel free to get into semantics with the whole "NO! NO! YOU SAID BOSH TOLD EVERYONE HE WANTED OUT! HE DIDN'T IN THOSE EXACT WORDS"
> 
> I'm tired of you, and I'm sure once again the point has been made regarding you and your posting quality/NBA knowledge.


Just another instance of R-Star making an complete idiot of himself.

Go back to the thread that you listed and look at the *date of the thread*.

Way to go R-Star. You list his twitter posts in May of 10', 2 months before his move to Miami as a way to prove to me that he declared his intentions 2 years before he left Toronto.

It's okay R-star, I'm not like your mom who never hugged you when you were a kid. I will always give you plenty of attention and I will try not to roll around laughing everytime you shit the bed.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> Just another instance of R-Star making an complete idiot of himself.
> 
> Go back to the thread that you listed and look at the *date of the thread*.
> 
> Way to go R-Star. You list his twitter posts in May of 10', 2 months before his move to Miami as a way to prove to me that he declared his intentions 2 years before he left Toronto.
> 
> It's okay R-star, I'm not like your mom who never hugged you when you were a kid. I will always give you plenty of attention and I will try not to roll around laughing everytime you shit the bed.


You're probably right bro. Bosh never wanted out, and never let anyone know. I took the first thread I could find, but I'm sure there's nothing else if I looked further.

I'm sorry. You're right. Bosh never wanted out, never hinted at it or let anyone know.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> lol......50% of keeping Dwight Howard, Orlando fans are delusional.
> 
> On what planet do you see Dwight Howard spending the best years of his career playing with Hedo Turkoglu, Quentin Richardson, Chris Duhon, Jason Richardson, and Glen Davis. You guys have close to 30 mil of salary tied up on scrubs for the next 2-3 years. Orlando have no assets or cap space to make any improvements for the near future. That isn't going to change.
> 
> The guy is *gone*. It would be bad for Dwight's image as a team player if he declares that he is leaving midseason so he's always going to stop short from making things certain. However you won't find another case where it's more certain that a player is leaving than Dwight Howard's situation in Orlando.


There's a 50% chance we keep him in the sense that we are one of two teams on his list with cap ability to give him MAX. If you've read any of my posts on here you would know that i certainly dont think we're an appealing team, and ive thought the roster decesions the last two years were horrific for several reasons, of which being the primary reason he should leave... But as long as he's on our roster, there situations in which maybe he could stay.

I was also certain that Bosh would leave Toronto, but u didn't see them trade him either until he was about to sign the dotted line in MIA. Why? Because yes, their was a chance he would stay(and probly cuz they only recieved offers below market value, cuz he had a PO and wouldnt commit). 

It's hypocritical to say u have to trade a star player. No, you do not have to trade ur star player. There's no evidence that suggests trading ur star player for salary or trading him for tpe is more effective way to rebuild. And yes its a rebuild, cuz lets not act like by trading Dwight Howard ORL is gonna be in a better position to compete for anything. It's just a matter of rebuilding now or doing it 3-5 yrs from now. There's no clear cut better way to rebuild, so their isn't a gun to anyones head to do anything. Its stupid panic trades that put Orlando in this position to begin with.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> *I was also certain that Bosh would leave Toronto,*


Should have told someone man.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> I was also certain that Bosh would leave Toronto, but u didn't see them trade him either until he was about to sign the dotted line in MIA. Why? Because yes, their was a chance he would stay(and probly cuz they only recieved offers below market value, cuz he had a PO and wouldnt commit).


And the Raptors ended up suffering because Bosh didn't declare that he wants out. That's why plenty of Raptor fans and Cavs fans felt that it would've been better for their teams had the 2 of them made things clear beforehand.

Orlando on the other hand has the advantage in that Dwight Howard is making things clear. If you are waiting for Dwight to declare that he isn't re-signing with Orlando, you're not going to hear it even if he has already made up his mind. He's not going to sacrifice his image by doing something like that. In my opinion Dwight has made things as clear as possible. The Orlando roster is a mess and there are no possible quick fixes available.



> It's hypocritical to say u have to trade a star player. No, you do not have to trade ur star player. There's no evidence that suggests trading ur star player for salary or trading him for tpe is more effective way to rebuild. And yes its a rebuild, cuz lets not act like by trading Dwight Howard ORL is gonna be in a better position to compete for anything. It's just a matter of rebuilding now or doing it 3-5 yrs from now. There's no clear cut better way to rebuild, so their isn't a gun to anyones head to do anything. Its stupid panic trades that put Orlando in this position to begin with.


Like I said, you seem to look at everything as if they are bunched together. There isn't a proven formula that guarantees quick and successful rebuild. What you have is a combination of moves where each move should be evaluated by themselves. Getting the most out of Dwight will always beat letting Dwight walk for nothing.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

btw, I'm not even mentioning the fact that it might not be in Orlando's best interests if Dwight stays. If Dwight re-signs, they are going to be mediocre for the foreseeable future. imo that has a chance to be the worst case scenario where it's bad for the team, it's bad for the league, bad for the player, bad for the fans.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Lol, for real... Ur only saying things that i already said and know. And actually Dallas can give him MAX too, so ur right 50% is high... should have said 33%, but of course thats the # w/o factoring in all the numerous variables that impact decisions like this.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

The 10+/- members who keep staying in this thread waiting for it to happen, its not going to happen, so don't waste your time waiting on me to do it. I'm not going to bother tonight.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

29 is awfully young to be suffering a case of Alzheimer's, R-Star. Better go see a doctor.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> 29 is awfully young to be suffering a case of Alzheimer's, R-Star. Better go see a doctor.


Feel free to elaborate. No? Oh, well thanks for the insightful addition to this thread Ron. 


We couldn't do it without you.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

What an insightful and on-topic thread


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> What an insightful and on-topic thread


Agreed.

Think playing in the ASG yesterday changed anything for Dwight? I never caught the game, but it always seems like when all these guys get together they decide who they like playing with. 

Was he ever on the floor with Hibbert? I bet he loved playing with Hibbert so much that he's going to demand a trade to the Pacers. Danny Granger and draft picks.

In all seriousness though, I wouldn't be surprised if he was talking with some of the players before and after the game that he wants to play with.


----------



## rynobot

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I don't think the Magic trade Howard, and I will be suprised if they did.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



rynobot said:


> I don't think the Magic trade Howard, and I will be suprised if they did.


They may as well wait for the offseason. If they do that, I'm pretty sure they'll throw any trade they can out there this deadline to try to make a push. Its a long shot, but they probably feel they can keep him if they win a title this year. 

Maybe they can get some Arenas/Hedo/Shard like vet contracts and really make Dwight happy.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

There's a snowballs chance in hell they even make the conference finals, much less the finals, much less win a title. Are they even a lock to get out of the first round the way things are looking?


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Lol, Ryan Anderson is the onyl other somewhat above-average starter on the roster. Magic wont get out of the 1st round because we have no versatility or matchup advantages except at one position.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying they have a shot at all at a title, just saying if Dwight isn't gone at the deadline, Orlando is probably throwing everything they can into trades to try to make it look like they're giving it one last shot.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> You're saying R-Star can't be valuable perfume?
> 
> 
> Are you still made about being outed for lying about who you chose to win the playoffs/finals last year? You kind of left that thread and never came back.


Diable always leaves a thread when he gets called out.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I still dont understand why we gave BBD $6.6mil/per... I mean was the mle not enough? :nonono:


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

hey at least you got rid of Bass... why again?


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

:whoknows:... I thoughht Bass was actually good.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I'm going to say Mark Cuban is feeling himself right about now. I think he sees the target well within his range


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Is there any word from Deron saying that he would re-sign with the Nets if they get Dwight Howard? I doubt Howard would want to go to New Jersey without another star being there. The stuff that I'm reading these days seems like Deron is gone for sure.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> I'm going to say Mark Cuban is feeling himself right about now. I think he sees the target well within his range


if Orlando plays their cards right Cuban might throw them a bone and send them a protected 1st rounder just so Dwight can get that one additional year on his contract

and then after the Mavs amensty Haywood he'll even send Prokhorov a nice fruit basket or something after he signs Williams


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

That's so stupid.

"Trade me....but if you don't, there's a good chance I'll stay this off-season"

What an idiot


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> if Orlando plays their cards right Cuban might throw them a bone and send them a protected 1st rounder just so Dwight can get that one additional year on his contract
> 
> and then after the Mavs amensty Haywood he'll even send Prokhorov a nice fruit basket or something after he signs Williams


Dirk's contract makes it impossible for Dallas to sign both.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

fun ruiner


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Marcus13 said:


> That's so stupid.
> 
> "Trade me....but if you don't, there's a good chance I'll stay this off-season"
> 
> What an idiot


:laugh:

"If you don't listen to my demands I might really start thinking about playing for another team."


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

the nets can just sign him outright too

Orlando is looking very savvy at the moment


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> Dirk's contract makes it impossible for Dallas to sign both.


But he can restructure his contract and take up to a 40% paycut for capspace.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

and now the fun is back


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Knicks4life said:


> But he can restructure his contract and take up to a 40% paycut for capspace.


Is this actually true? While I've seen message board posters assert it, the NBA's official CBA summation still says renegotiated deals "may not provide for a decrease in salary in any season". So until I find something more authoritative I'm thinking that Dallas needs to amnesty Dirk for Howard & Williams.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> and now the fun is back


Not quite, because even if the number is right (and I have very real doubts based on the fact that everyone that makes the claim has a different figure somewhere between 30%-50%), and Dirk took an $8 million paycut (a dubious assumption at best), Dallas still wouldn't have the room. Even with that reduction they would have approximately $28 million tied up in six players next year, factor in the six minimum cap holds and that figure goes up to about $33 million, which would leave them about $27 million in cap space. Or about 2/3 of what they would need for two max signings.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

unless of course they move Marion before the trade deadline for the Lakers TPE (that they gave them)?!


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



> Scout.com: The 'New CBA Provision' That Doesn't Exist
> 
> 
> 
> In the NBA’s rush to piece together a new CBA and in the media’s rush to report on it, news circulated of a new ‘renegotiation-and-extension provision’ that would allow a team to re-do a big contract to spread it over more years, thus lessening its burden on each year’s cap.
> 
> 
> 
> Clever - especially with the open secret of the Dallas Mavericks eyeballing ways to squeeze Dwight Howard and Dirk Nowitzki and Deron Williams onto the same roster.
> 
> Such a concept, presumably modeled after the NFL's practice, would have changed some of the hassle of dealing with the cap from year to year, and opened up lots of possibilities for creative GMing.
> 
> DB.com has obtained a copy of the revised CBA, and after a look at its contents and a huddle with Mark Cuban, here’s what we discovered about such a possibility: It does not exist.
> 
> As it has been widely reported, such an idea would have allowed a team to re-do a player contract (with the player's permission, of course) where the payout was lowered in the short term, but where the contract was then extended so that the player also gained as well. Of further import, it would have provided a method for a team to manipulate its cap room, creating the ability to move some cap money from one year to a later one.
> 
> 
> 
> And its assumed existence had amateur GMs – avid fans and smart sportswriters alike -- mulling the possibilities and drooling over the flexibility their team might gain.
> 
> Imagine, for instance, if you could work with a cooperative Nowitzki to lessen his cap impact next summer, giving the Mavericks even more room to pursue Dwight or Deron – or both.
> 
> The possibilities were endless. Calculators were set to get overworked, all thought.
> 
> Alas, after reading the new CBA, we determined that such an idea (as outlined above) does NOT exist at all. And our man Mike Fisher visited one-on-one with Mavs owner Mark Cuban who confirmed our findings.
> 
> There is indeed a ‘renegotiation-and-extension’ provision in the new CBA, however, and its existence is undoubtedly the source of the reports we have heard. But elsewhere in the new CBA, we find the following definition(s):
> 
> “Renegotiation,” “renegotiate,” or “renegotiated” means Contract amendment that provides for an increase in Salary and/or Unlikely Bonuses." And in the section regarding renegotiations and extensions, we read this: "In no event shall a Team and player negotiate a decrease in Salary or in any Incentive Compensation for any Salary Cap Year covered by a Player Contract."
> 
> As we looked closely, what we discovered actually being defined in the "renegotiation-and-extension" concept is a way for a player to get MORE money in the short term, for a team under the cap, in exchange for an extension at a lesser-than-normal contractual amount. In such a situation, the extended years can contain a significant decrease from the pay in the old contract.


http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1145100.html


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

ruination complete


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> ruination complete


I think people were confusing separate provisions, because I believe there's a provision to waive a player and spread his salary across more seasons (thus reducing the cap hit for waived players), and it got jumbled together with the renegotiate & extend provision.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1145100.html


That's essentially what OKC did with both Collison and Perkins last season, giving each as much of a bump in their salary last year as they could to reduce the amount paid out in their respective extensions. I'm thinking it's not a new provision, but just something that got tweaked during the negotiation process.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> I think people were confusing separate provisions, because I believe there's a provision to waive a player and spread his salary across more seasons (thus reducing the cap hit for waived players), and it got jumbled together with the renegotiate & extend provision.


If you waive a player, any other team can claim their rights in a 48 hour period can they not?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

isnt there some wire priority ranking?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> isnt there some wire priority ranking?


I'm basing this all on my knowledge of other sports, but yea, there is a waiver priority ranking in other leagues based on your record and if you've picked up a guy off the waiver wire previously that season.


If anyone ever tried to waive a guy like Dirk to restructure his contract, he'd be picked up by another team. Without question.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

We can amnesty or offload Haywood or Marion and have room for both, especially with Odom's buyout to come.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I don't know if people are being anti-LA or what, but everywhere I read counts out LA mostly because Dwight doesn't want to emulate Shaq or be Kobe's sidekick. Apparently Kobe's vision got relayed to Dwight and he wasn't flattered. 

At this point I'd say he wants to go to BK but the pieces just aren't there for a trade. Dallas is a cross that bridge when we come to it situation...LA is a longshot. And of course Orlando could still keep him with a blockbuster noone saw coming, but those chances are just very small. I feel like in his heart of hearts if Orlando had cap room or got him another huge piece he'd stay no problem.

And Deron and Dwight isn't necessarily a package deal or close to it, the media is making it seem that way cause it's a juicy story.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> If you waive a player, any other team can claim their rights in a 48 hour period can they not?


Well, yeah, anyone with $21 million in cap space could claim Dirk. But what I was referring to was the provision to reduce the cap hit from the Eddy Curryesque contracts that teams sign bad players to (if I recall you can spread the remaining salary out for an extra two years beyond what's remaining, thus encouraging teams to get rid of non-performers). No one's releasing a superstar to reduce the cap hit. I doubt that even Donald Sterling is _that_ cheap.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> I don't know if people are being anti-LA or what, but everywhere I read counts out LA mostly because Dwight doesn't want to emulate Shaq or be Kobe's sidekick. Apparently Kobe's vision got relayed to Dwight and he wasn't flattered.
> 
> At this point I'd say he wants to go to BK but the pieces just aren't there for a trade. Dallas is a cross that bridge when we come to it situation...LA is a longshot. And of course Orlando could still keep him with a blockbuster noone saw coming, but those chances are just very small. I feel like in his heart of hearts if Orlando had cap room or got him another huge piece he'd stay no problem.


I agree that this isn't a "I want to play in a big city" move rather it's a "Since I'm moving, I rather go play in a big city" type of move. If Orlando can put together a contender I'm sure Dwight would stay. It's the same with Lebron as well. Had the Cavs been able to find that second star, chances are Lebron would've stayed also. The problem is theres no way for Orlando to acquire any one worthawhile at least for next year. If Orlando wants to re-sign Dwight they will somehow have to convince Dwight to wait another year and hopefully that Orlando can turn the expiring contracts of Redick and Nelson into an allstar caliber player. Meanwhile Ryan Anderson's contract expires this season. With the way that he's playing coupled with Orlando's desperation it would surprise no one to see Orlando vastly overpay the guy. It's just a bottomless pit of trouble for Dwight if he stays in Orlando.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> No one's releasing a superstar to reduce the cap hit. I doubt that even Donald Sterling is _that_ cheap.


wait for two seasons from now when Jim Buss amnesties Kobe and his 30m salary


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> wait for two seasons from now when Jim Buss amnesties Kobe and his 30m salary


I know what you are saying and anything this prick does wouldn't surprise me, but if he did do that he may be tar and feathered and run out of town on a rail.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

What if he does it to sign Deron Williams and Dwight Howard in free agency?


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Knicks4life said:


> What if he does it to sign Deron Williams and Dwight Howard in free agency?


What is the sun rises in the West and is green in color?

Pray tell, where the **** is he going to get the money to do that? I did not know the new cap is $160 million per team. :lol:


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Oh, you are saying AFTER he amnesties Kobe in two years...I get it.

But by then Howard will have his long-term deal with Dallas and Deron Williams will be...God, I have no idea where the **** he will be.

But he will be with SOMEONE on another long-term deal. But not the Lakers.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Talking about next season.

Amnesty Kobe, trade Gasol to a team with capspace like the Pacers or the Celtics next year, do the same with Bynum, trade him to Orlando or just not pick up his team option, use the stretch provision on Artest to waive him and half his cap hit.

That will give the Lakers the capspace to sign both Deron & Dwight.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Well, they aren't going to amnesty Kobe next year, count on that.

But I will play along just for playing along sake.

So after the bloodletting, you get Dwight and Deron.

Then what? 2-on-5 doesn't work very well in the NBA, not even against the Wizards or the Bobcats.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Of course they'd probably still sign in Brooklyn anyway where they'd actually have teammates


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

True but you also have two (maybe three depending on what you can get in a Gasol trade) first round draft picks in a deep draft plus that process should net you a mmle.

If your a GM during the FA period and you can get a commitment from both player do you still not do it?


----------



## M.V.W.

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> *Well, they aren't going to amnesty Kobe next year, count on that.*
> 
> But I will play along just for playing along sake.
> 
> So after the bloodletting, you get Dwight and Deron.
> 
> Then what? 2-on-5 doesn't work very well in the NBA, not even against the Wizards or the Bobcats.


This. He's still the main draw for them, so they're going to milk him until he retires even if they don't win any more championships.



Vuchato said:


> Of course they'd probably still sign in Brooklyn anyway where they'd actually have teammates


That'd be far better for them.



Knicks4life said:


> True but you also have two (maybe three depending on what you can get in a Gasol trade) first round draft picks in a deep draft plus that process should net you a mmle.
> 
> *If your a GM during the FA period and you can get a commitment from both player do you still not do it?*


I'd do it but the scenario is more preferable with Bryant included.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> Then what? 2-on-5 doesn't work very well in the NBA, not even against the Wizards or the Bobcats.


If the Wizards are starting Blatche and McGee it'd be a pretty even match.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Vuchato said:


> Of course they'd probably still sign in Brooklyn anyway where they'd actually have teammates


what teammates? only Morrow, Petro and Brooks are signed thru next season everyone else is some kind of expiring, restricted, player option, or team option


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> Then what? 2-on-5 doesn't work very well in the NBA, not even against the Wizards or the Bobcats.


I dont know, we're 20-14 playing 3 on 5


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> I dont know, we're 20-14 playing 3 on 5


Good point.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> If the Wizards are starting Blatche and McGee it'd be a pretty even match.


They are a mess, aren't they? This is still one of my favorite videos, posted earlier on this board. Hilarious.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

like I said before I wish they'd had a close up of Wall's face as he watches him run down the court


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> like I said before I wish they'd had a close up of Wall's face as he watches him run down the court



TNT guys having a lot of fun with it.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> what teammates? only Morrow, Petro and Brooks are signed thru next season everyone else is some kind of expiring, restricted, player option, or team option


Morrow and Brooks are way better than Artest and Walton would be, and they'll likely bring back either Lopez or Humphries too.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

and they're right too it was a horrible shot to begin with and there's still 15 seconds left in the clock he just chucks it at the backboard there was no chance that thing was going in and he knew it

and instead of following the shot to look for the orbd he just gives up on the play and lugs on down the court

it's like 10 seconds into the shot clock he just decided **** it lets get this possession over with

just layers and layers of bad about that play


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Vuchato said:


> Morrow and Brooks are way better than Artest and Walton would be, and they'll likely bring back either Lopez or Humphries too.


I wouldnt bet on getting Humphries or Lopez back because both are going to be looking at offers at 10m or over

and the real threat isnt the Lakers in some hypothetical nonsense - it's Dallas


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



> The reportedly preference for Dwight Howard is to sign with the Nets in the offseason as a free agent, which would allow the franchise to retain the assets they do have.
> 
> Howard is enthused about teaming up with Deron Williams and he could likely receive a more lucrative adidas extension in Brooklyn.
> 
> The Magic haven't given up on keeping Howard and are interested in a trade for either Steve Nash or Monta Ellis, but both possibilities are remote.


http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...gn_With_Nets_Outright_In_Summer#ixzz1nsEgkxaP

What's interesting is what happens in the lottery. If the Nets get a prime pick, say Kidd-Gilchrist, Robinson or Barnes, them and Deron will look like the start of something potentially special. Or they could pull a Celtics and trade that to someone for a vet. Josh Smith or Monta Ellis say?


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

It pains me to say this as a Lakers fan, but Dwight in Brooklyn would be pretty dope. He and Deron are two of my favorites at this point and they could really be something special if they got some role players around them. 

And they'd present Miami with another huge roadblock to winning titles in years to come, so there's that.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

brooklyn this summer is the ribs of an 11-25 squad plus Howard (and that already includes Deron Williams) - maybe if they win the lottery but I wouldnt count the Mavs out


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> brooklyn this summer is the ribs of an 11-25 squad plus Howard (and that already includes Deron Williams) - maybe if they win the lottery but I wouldnt count the Mavs out


If they can get a good player in the draft, sign Dwight, and use their MLE on a solid vet then I don't see any reason why they couldn't be a factor in the east. Deron/Dwight would be the best guard/big man duo in the league, right?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Dirk and Dwight together would be huge for each other, especially as Dirk kind of ages


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> brooklyn this summer is the ribs of an 11-25 squad plus Howard (and that already includes Deron Williams) - maybe if they win the lottery but I wouldnt count the Mavs out


If they can get a good player in the draft, sign Dwight, and use their MLE on a solid vet then I don't see any reason why they couldn't be a factor in the east. Deron/Dwight would be the best guard/big man duo in the league, right?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Luke said:


> If they can get a good player in the draft, sign Dwight, and use their MLE on a solid vet then I don't see any reason why they couldn't be a factor in the east. Deron/Dwight would be the best guard/big man duo in the league, right?


They could also trade the pick for an all-star vet.

They'd be thin up front, but Brooks can play, Morrow can shoot, they wouldn't be a bad team by any stretch. And then you have the next year after to improve even more. I don't understand why people act like if the Nets got what they got they'd just have to sit on their hands and make due. The Heat didn't do that and they had less wiggle room than maybe anyone in history.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

It would definitely make the east very interesting if nothing else. Right now it's really a two horse race between Miami and Chicago, but throw in the Nets and possibly the Knicks if all goes well and Miami's supposed cakewalk gets a lot more interesting.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> They could also trade the pick for an all-star vet.
> 
> They'd be thin up front, but Brooks can play, Morrow can shoot, they wouldn't be a bad team by any stretch. And then you have the next year after to improve even more. I don't understand why people act like if the Nets got what they got they'd just have to sit on their hands and make due. The Heat didn't do that and they had less wiggle room than maybe anyone in history.


so your spitting rebuild this year and contend next year to big boy as enticing? he can do that in florida without all the state taxes


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

If the Nets can sign Dwight outright while keeping Deron Williams then sky's the limit for that team. The best center plus one of the best point guards in the game is a great foundation for a championship team. The best part is that the Nets would be Dwight's team and he would have a legacy if they end up winning a championship. LA will always be Kobe's team and Dallas will be Dirk's.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

PG: DWill
SG: Morrow
SF: Brooks
PF: Lopez
C: Dwight

6th Man: lotto pick


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Luke said:


> If they can get a good player in the draft, sign Dwight, and use their MLE on a solid vet then I don't see any reason why they couldn't be a factor in the east. Deron/Dwight would be the best guard/big man duo in the league, right?


From what I understand, under the previous CBA the Nets would not have a MLE. However with the new rules, I believe they'll have a smaller MLE (up to 2 years, $2.5 million per year). Not going to get much with that.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> so your spitting rebuild this year and contend next year to big boy as enticing? he can do that in florida without all the state taxes


So every team that adds a couple roleplayers is rebuilding?

What I said was even if they just have the core of their team this offseason they have the next year or two to round out. 

Since when is Dwight Howard/Deron Williams/a lottery pick or very good vet a rebuilding situation


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> If the Nets can sign Dwight outright while keeping Deron Williams then sky's the limit for that team. The best center plus one of the best point guards in the game is a great foundation for a championship team. The best part is that the Nets would be Dwight's team and he would have a legacy if they end up winning a championship. LA will always be Kobe's team and Dallas will be Dirk's.


Just **** the lakers were kareem's team when they got magic.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> PG: DWill
> SG: Morrow
> SF: Brooks
> PF: Lopez
> C: Dwight
> 
> 6th Man: lotto pick


I doubt they bring back Lopez or are even able to


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> So every team that adds a couple roleplayers is rebuilding?
> 
> What I said was even if they just have the core of their team this offseason they have the next year or two to round out.
> 
> Since when is Dwight Howard/Deron Williams/a lottery pick or very good vet a rebuilding situation


since when is it a contender capable of going head to head with the Heat?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> since when is it a contender capable of going head to head with the Heat?


Since when are the Magic? When did I say they were? Stop nitpicking me. All the guy has is the options available to him...he obviously doesn't like what Orlando or LA's future looks like..so it becomes Dallas or Jersey. Of the two Jersey isn't a bad option, that's all I'm saying.

I'm not naive enough, and he shouldn't be either, to think he's just going to hop on a team and win a title. That's not a realistic option right now. The Heat didn't even do that. But like I said if they get Deron and Dwight, a lottery pick or a vet, and make a couple other moves they're going to win 55+ games and depending on who they get they'll be in position to challenge the Heat in the next couple years. The Magic can't say that. 

And that's hardly a rebuilding situation, but you knew that already.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Hyperion said:


> Just **** the lakers were kareem's team when they got magic.


did you just say ****


----------



## King Joseus

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

:|


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

The Magic should just take Brook, Brooks, and a 2012 1st for Dwight.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> Since when are the Magic? When did I say they were? Stop nitpicking me. All the guy has is the options available to him...he obviously doesn't like what Orlando or LA's future looks like..so it becomes Dallas or Jersey. Of the two Jersey isn't a bad option, that's all I'm saying.
> *
> I'm not naive enough, and he shouldn't be either, to think he's just going to hop on a team and win a title. That's not a realistic option right now. The *Heat didn't even do that. But like I said if they get Deron and Dwight, a lottery pick or a vet, and make a couple other moves they're going to win 55+ games and depending on who they get they'll be in position to challenge the Heat in the next couple years. The Magic can't say that.
> 
> And that's hardly a rebuilding situation, but you knew that already.


so all I said is I would be wary about going to the nets and that I wouldnt count Dallas out - knowing that you're going (or staying) to an 'work in progress' situation which organization do you trust more to build around? the magic, the nets or the mavs? (take the Lakers out of it - he has and they have already apparently anyway)

one thing the magic have done recently that seems pretty smart is to include him in player personnel discussions


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Dallas can't be counted out, but I think you're overstating how much work the Nets would have to do when they have their two all-stars at the main two positions that "make teammates better". Deron Williams' passing creates points for lesser players and he can score, compound that with Dwight Howard's presence at the end of the defense and on the boards and it means you don't have to have a fully complete team to beat a lot of people 4 out of 7. 

I mean that team is probably beating everyone but the Bulls, Thunder and Heat. That's a nice place to start. And if they can get a really good 4 they'd have the size to beat the Heat.

It's just a matter of finetuning and about 3 roleplayers, it's not some 5 year plan.

The Magic are way farther than that, and Dallas is at the peak but we're also not young either. Of the options you could easily make a case for the Nets being the best.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> so all I said is I would be wary about going to the nets and that I wouldnt count Dallas out - knowing that you're going (or staying) to an 'work in progress' situation which organization do you trust more to build around? the magic, the nets or the mavs? (take the Lakers out of it - he has and they have already apparently anyway)
> 
> one thing the magic have done recently that seems pretty smart is to include him in player personnel discussions


How is the Mavs not a work in progress next year? Do you know what's on their team?

This is who they have under contract for next season.

Dirk
Marion
Haywood
Vince
Beaubois
Dominique Jones

That's it. Kidd's contract is off the books and the guy turns 40 next year. Marion and Vince are average role players at this point and theres a chance that the Mavs amnesty Haywood. Beaubois is still unproven and I don't even know who Dominique Jones is. Outside of Dirk the Mavs really don't have much right now.

The Nets on the other hand have Marshon Brooks who looks to be a solid starter. They will have a lottery pick in a loaded draft. They will likely be able to re-sign Kris Humphries and perhaps do a sign and trade for Brook Lopez and get something there. Anthony Morrow is a great scoring spark off the bench and Jordan Farmar is a decent backup point guard. I would say the Nets team with Dwight looks just as good if not better than the Mavs next year and going forward.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> How is the Mavs not a work in progress next year? Do you know what's on their team?
> 
> This is who they have under contract for next season.
> 
> Dirk
> Marion
> Haywood
> Vince
> Beaubois
> Dominique Jones
> 
> That's it. Kidd's contract is off the books and the guy turns 40 next year. Marion and Vince are average role players at this point and theres a chance that the Mavs amnesty Haywood. Beaubois is still unproven and I don't even know who Dominique Jones is. Outside of Dirk the Mavs really don't have much right now.
> 
> The Nets on the other hand have Marshon Brooks who looks to be a solid starter. They will have a lottery pick in a loaded draft. They will likely be able to re-sign Kris Humphries and perhaps do a sign and trade for Brook Lopez and get something there. Anthony Morrow is a great scoring spark off the bench and Jordan Farmar is a decent backup point guard. I would say the Nets team with Dwight looks just as good if not better than the Mavs next year and going forward.


reading comprehension is at a premium around these parts apparently - all 3 options are 'works in progress'

the question dre and I settled on was this - which organization do you settle on to guide you through the next steps?

and ps no they wont be able to resign Humphries and afford both Williams and Howard, and good luck on your S&T of Lopez and Farmar and Shawn Williams have player's options so kiss them good bye too 

Brooks, Morrow, Deron, Dwight, lottery pick - that's all you can really count on - unless of course you want to exercise the team option on Damion James - it's not bad but it aint the promised land either


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

and that's all in Billy Kings hands btw so you know, grab a rabbit's foot and start praying


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> reading comprehension is at a premium around these parts apparently - all 3 options are 'works in progress'
> 
> the question dre and I settled on was this - which organization do you settle on to guide you through the next steps?
> 
> and ps no they wont be able to resign Humphries and afford both Williams and Howard, and good luck on your S&T of Lopez and Farmar and Shawn Williams have player's options so kiss them good bye too
> 
> Brooks, Morrow, Deron, Dwight, lottery pick - that's all you can really count on - unless of course you want to exercise the team option on Damion James - it's not bad but it aint the promised land either


From your earlier posts it seems like you were implying that the Nets have the worse outlook of all 3 options and that's why I made my previous posts. The Nets imo is by far the best choice roster wise of all 3 teams.

I do think that Kris Humphries will re-sign with the Nets and they can afford him. He's not going to get more than 7-8 mil a year under the current cba. There isn't a huge market out there for Jordan Farmar and I hope Shawne Williams opt out considering he's out for the year and was only a fringe NBA player before that. I don't know why you think Lopez s&t is unlikely either. You don't think Lopez would be one of the most attractive FA signings this off season? There will be many teams competing for his services which makes the s&t a huge possibility.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I definitely don't think Lopez will be back...maybe either way

And I'm gonna keep saying I wouldn't be surprised to see the Nets trade that pick if it's not top 3.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Actually I now realize under the new cba the sign and trade isn't as lucrative. So e-monk is right, theres a good chance that Lopez would walk.

But with that said, the Nets still have a lot of young pieces going forward.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



seifer0406 said:


> There isn't a huge market out there for Jordan Farmar.


the lakers would take him back and give him the starting job in a heart beat right now


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



e-monk said:


> the lakers would take him back and give him the starting job in a heart beat right now


lol....I would love to see the Lakers offer Farmar a multi-year deal next year to be their starting PG. If you listen closely you can hear the sound of Ron jumping out a window.

btw, I see the Lakers dealing with their PG issue by this trade deadline. There are just too many opportunities for this not to happen.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

We freaking better.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I hope so - these next two weeks will be telling regarding the direction of the Lakers organizations


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



> On days he waffles, Howard then gets reminders of the business opportunities awaiting through the wealth of Mikhail Prokhorov in Brooklyn. Williams, his friend, has been in his ear. *That’s why Orlando brass was ticked when of all the players available, the NBA teamed Howard with Williams at an All-Star weekend community event.* Williams has picked up endorsements with the Nets which simply would not have been available in Utah. Howard sees that. And Howard knows of Williams’ input on personnel matters, another sore point for him in Orlando.


:2ti: They know what they was doing


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Lol, If Orlando would of saved cap, we would have had just as much a chance to lure Williams to Orlando as the Nets do Howard. It's their own fault for putting themselves in this position. i dont feel bad for them.


----------



## Job

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

:spam:
Orlando could have Noah, Taj. Weird that Howard doesn't want to play for the Bulls. Conflict with adidas. Derrick did not recruit. Howard could win a championship. Really good reason for not coming to Chicago.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Noah and Taj?


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Noah and Taj!?

Otis Smith may be a crap GM, but he aint that crap.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


>


Dre, this GIF is particularly disturbing. :|

Fascinating...but still disturbing.


----------



## Job

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Wade County said:


> Noah and Taj!?
> 
> Otis Smith may be a crap GM, but he aint that crap.


What if Orlando gets nothing.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Job said:


> What if Orlando gets nothing.


So they better bend over and take a crap deal from the Bulls?

I'm tired of hearing that logic, its so flawed and terrible.

Noah and Taj is not even close to the best they could get with 1 days notice to trade Dwight. Try again.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Losing to Charlotte tonight isn't going make Dwight want to stay anymore than perhaps he was thinking just a few hours ago.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I wonder how he feels about getting outplayed by Bismack Biyombo.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Ron said:


> Losing to Charlotte tonight isn't going make Dwight want to stay anymore than perhaps he was thinking just a few hours ago.


According to Orlando fans Dwight still has 50% chance of staying in Orlando. I'm guessing he'll flip a coin come July 1st.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

He'll do the Gilbert Arenas flip. 8 times it lands Orlando, so he'll go to BK


----------



## Firefight

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Yes, Orlando is not taking Taj and Noah for Howard.... but, that's not saying that the Bulls don't have what it takes. Noah is one of the few quality centers the Magic could get back. Taj is on a good contract and is a promising PF. That alone won't be enough, but the Bulls do have a very attractive draft pick to offer as well. They own a Charlotte first rounder that has limited protection, and in a couple years, has potential to be the number 1 overall pick. Throw that pick in the deal with Luol Deng, and I'm not sure to many teams can match that offer for Dwight.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Firefight said:


> Yes, Orlando is not taking Taj and Noah for Howard.... but, that's not saying that the Bulls don't have what it takes. Noah is one of the few quality centers the Magic could get back. Taj is on a good contract and is a promising PF. That alone won't be enough, but the Bulls do have a very attractive draft pick to offer as well. They own a Charlotte first rounder that has limited protection, and in a couple years, has potential to be the number 1 overall pick. Throw that pick in the deal with Luol Deng, and I'm not sure to many teams can match that offer for Dwight.


Where does Dwight not wanting to play in Chicago factor in?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Where does Dwight not wanting to play in Chicago factor in?


Dwight's not taking less money to go to a worse situation. He just isn't. It's one thing for a guy to walk on a team without a future and take less cash for a shot at relevancy, it's another to leave a top-five team with another franchise guy because it gets cold in the winter. Dwight will re-sign in a good situation, even if it isn't LA, Brooklyn, or Dallas.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Noah and Taj is not even close to the best they could get with 1 days notice to trade Dwight. Try again.


Okay, okay, okay.

How about Scalabrine, Watson, Noah AND a second rounder?

Do I got Orlando's attention now?

I bet I do, I bet I do.


----------



## Firefight

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Where does Dwight not wanting to play in Chicago factor in?


So a list surfaces with a few teams names on it, and that's the end of it? I've never heard Dwight say he didn't want to play in Chicago. I actually though he said he would be open to it... Do you have a link saying he doesn't want to play in Chicago? Even his "list" of teams is just talk... Has anyone seen this list as fact? You think Dwight would actually make that public... You know Orlando wouldn't want that to be public...


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

We go through this with every player. Every fan base thinks they're in it just because the guy hasn't come out on ESPN and said they can go **** themselves. I mean I guess...but Dwight isn't going to Chicago. Give it up guys.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I was thinking though...for whatever reason Dwight wants to play with Stephen Jackson. The Nets should send over Okur and Stevenson's expirings to Milwaukee and get him. He has no value at this point. But of course if you don't get Dwight then you're stuck with him in a less desirable situation.


----------



## Firefight

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I agree, I don't think Dwights coming here, nor am I to excited about the possibility of it happening.... My point was that it could happen, because I don't believe Howard doesn't want to come here, and especially because I know the Bulls have the pieces to get it done if they wanted to... Something a lot of teams on this so called list can't say.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Dwight's not taking less money to go to a worse situation. He just isn't. It's one thing for a guy to walk on a team without a future and take less cash for a shot at relevancy, it's another to leave a top-five team with another franchise guy because it gets cold in the winter. Dwight will re-sign in a good situation, even if it isn't LA, Brooklyn, or Dallas.


Oh ok. Because you say so right? He's given a list of teams, Chicago isn't on it. Hes made weather a big deal about his decision, and Chicago is cold as ****. But you're right, he'll go and resign because you say so.

New players don't care about winning. Dwight doesn't care.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Firefight said:


> So a list surfaces with a few teams names on it, and that's the end of it? I've never heard Dwight say he didn't want to play in Chicago. I actually though he said he would be open to it... Do you have a link saying he doesn't want to play in Chicago? Even his "list" of teams is just talk... Has anyone seen this list as fact? You think Dwight would actually make that public... You know Orlando wouldn't want that to be public...


His agent made the list public. Its what agents do.

If he had any, and I mean any desire to go to Chicago you don't think it would have been front page news for every sports publication?

He isn't going to Chicago. There's 0 chance. Come back to reality.


----------



## Firefight

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> His agent made the list public. Its what agents do.
> 
> If he had any, and I mean any desire to go to Chicago you don't think it would have been front page news for every sports publication?
> 
> He isn't going to Chicago. There's 0 chance. Come back to reality.


Please read posts before writing please.... I never said Howard is coming to Chicago. I never said I want Howard, because I don't... I just asked for a link to this list that you said he made public.... I've heard ESPN reporters talk about it, but that's it.... Leaking a list benefits no one except teams trying to trade with Orlando.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

His primary reason for not wanting to go to Chicago is it already being Rose's town and larger than that Jordan's. He backed off LA in part because he didn't want to emulate Shaq's path or play second fiddle to Kobe. 

He sees BK with Deron as a chance to carve his own path not just oncourt but as an icon of a franchise and a standalone star. Ideally it would be Orlando but they don't have the pieces around him he feels like.

You may think that's silly and disagree, and I may not even disagree but that's where these guys heads are at. From everything that's been indicated and implied that's what it is


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Howard's thinking seems muddled to me. If he was smart he'd look for a situation in the Western Conference, because that's probably the easiest path to the finals right now. The Clippers would make a lot of sense, but he'd probably lose money. I sort of think he just doesn't want to play with Rose and it's not really a good fit.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Dwight is afraid of confrontation. He's the type of guy that needs to be loved by everyone. He won't become the villain and put his foot down. I don't see Orlando trading him as long as the door is cracked slightly open.

I can even see Dwight staying.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

There really isn't a compelling reason to make any of the trades which have been discussed. I would fire Otis Smith and tell him that I was going to do something to put a better roster together. Of course I'd have fired Smith right after he decided to give that contract to Rashard Lewis or sooner.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Dwight is afraid of confrontation. He's the type of guy that needs to be loved by everyone. He won't become the villain and put his foot down. I don't see Orlando trading him as long as the door is cracked slightly open.
> 
> I can even see Dwight staying.


In the back of my mind I kind of could too. Watch them get Kevin Martin or somebody like that and he stays :drake:


----------



## Noyze

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Seems like the city is starting to wear him down, he's moving further and further away from making an aggressive move somewhere else. Dude is gonna have a Patrick Ewing type career


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> We go through this with every player. Every fan base thinks they're in it just because the guy hasn't come out on ESPN and said they can go **** themselves. I mean I guess...but Dwight isn't going to Chicago. Give it up guys.


I didn't say that he was, I said that Chicago _should_. He doesn't have a no-trade, so if Orlando agrees to send him there, he's going, and he'd be hard-pressed to leave a team that makes, at minimum, the conference Finals for a lottery team. If weather was really that big of a deal then New York wouldn't be an option. Just because a guy has a wish list doesn't mean that he's only willing to play for those teams. 




R-Star said:


> Oh ok. Because you say so right? He's given a list of teams, Chicago isn't on it. Hes made weather a big deal about his decision, and Chicago is cold as ****. But you're right, he'll go and resign because you say so.
> 
> New players don't care about winning. Dwight doesn't care.



Because you say so, right? If weather was really a deal-breaker, Brooklyn wouldn't be on the table. The list was teams he'd _like_ to go to, he didn't pull a Carmelo and announce that he'd walk on anybody but one team in particular. It's looking likely that Deron's got one eye toward Dallas this summer, so I don't buy that they're planning on a Brooklyn team-up under any and all circumstances. Kevin Garnett announced he'd never sign an extension with Boston, and then they went and got Ray. He changed his tune to play for a contender, guys don't walk on championship squads to take less money with a one-man team that's last in their division. It doesn't happen.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Deron said he would only commit to Brooklyn if they acquired Dwight.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> Deron said he would only commit to Brooklyn if they acquired Dwight.


....and if Deron had a guarantee from Dwight that he'd take less money to go to Brooklyn, he wouldn't have had to say anything, which is why I don't buy that they're plotting a Miami-style team-up. It may wind up happening, but Dwight doesn't have tunnel vision for Brooklyn.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I really think that if New Jersey doesn't trade for Dwight, Deron ends up in Dallas and then its 50/50 whether Dwight chooses Orlando or Dallas.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Dallas would have to dump Marion and Haywood, renounce Kidd and Tery, and cut Odom loose in order to have room to pursue both guys. All of that's definitely doable, but it does complicate things a little.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Why did you quote me R-Star said that Weather bit


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Dallas would have to dump Marion and Haywood, renounce Kidd and Tery, and cut Odom loose in order to have room to pursue both guys. All of that's definitely doable, but it does complicate things a little.


What's the starting salary for a max deal? From what I just saw on the Hoopshype salary page all we have to do is buyout Odom and get rid of Haywood or Marion.

And is it circumvention for them to sign those two first (hypothetically) then resign Kidd and Terry after because they don't need to be under the cap for them?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> Why did you quote me R-Star said that Weather bit


Good catch, my mistake. Fixed now. Meant to quote that as R-Star the first time around, entered it wrong.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> What's the starting salary for a max deal? From what I just saw on the Hoopshype salary page all we have to do is buyout Odom and get rid of Haywood or Marion.
> 
> And is it circumvention for them to sign those two first (hypothetically) then resign Kidd and Terry after because they don't need to be under the cap for them?


As I understand it, if you're that far under the cap your free agents have a certain cap hold that ties up money until you re-sign them. In order to get rid of that hold and use that money elsewhere(like, say, Dwight), you have to renounce their Bird Rights and treat them as regular free agents. Kidd would probably come back at a minimum or slightly above minimum deal for one last go-round, but they'd have to talk Terry into taking a substantial pay-cut on what will be his last sizable deal to bring him back. He'd have to take that reduced exception that under-the-cap teams get when they hit the cap. Unless I'm just an idiot, which is entirely possible.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

No you're right cause I asked the same thing about the Heat and Dwyane Wade. Pretty sure the CBA would have that to keep teams from doing that.

But forget Terry if we have Deron :kanyeshrug:


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> No you're right cause I asked the same thing about the Heat and Dwyane Wade. Pretty sure the CBA would have that to keep teams from doing that.
> 
> But forget Terry if we have Deron :kanyeshrug:


Well, that's the thing, it still makes them better, it's just not as simple as adding those two and rolling with it. Odom, Haywood, Marion, and Terry all have to go. Finding a taker for Marion is the only move that's partially out of their hands, so it's not the biggest challenge in the world, though they may need to bribe someone.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Blue said:


> Deron said he would only commit to Brooklyn if they acquired Dwight.


I don't remember him ever saying this.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> I don't remember him ever saying this.


I read something along those lines in the NY papers as well. Not so much that he's leaving unless they get Dwight, but that he'd definitely stick around if they did. Basically, if he's faced with rolling into next year with a roster like this years', he's going to Dallas.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> I didn't say that he was, I said that Chicago _should_. He doesn't have a no-trade, so if Orlando agrees to send him there, he's going, and he'd be hard-pressed to leave a team that makes, at minimum, the conference Finals for a lottery team. If weather was really that big of a deal then New York wouldn't be an option. Just because a guy has a wish list doesn't mean that he's only willing to play for those teams.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because you say so, right? If weather was really a deal-breaker, Brooklyn wouldn't be on the table. The list was teams he'd _like_ to go to, he didn't pull a Carmelo and announce that he'd walk on anybody but one team in particular. It's looking likely that Deron's got one eye toward Dallas this summer, so I don't buy that they're planning on a Brooklyn team-up under any and all circumstances. Kevin Garnett announced he'd never sign an extension with Boston, and then they went and got Ray. He changed his tune to play for a contender, guys don't walk on championship squads to take less money with a one-man team that's last in their division. It doesn't happen.


Are you delusional? Hes an NBA superstar. They aren't trading him to a team that isn't on the list. And you think a team like Chicago is going to trade big assets like Noah and "hope" he stays? No. Not a chance. 

You're being ridiculous.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

You're being delusional. I remember when my brother went to summer camp. He said that he didn't want to go there because it wasn't where all of his friends were going. Well he went and really enjoyed it and went back the next year. Dwight's like an overgown child and the NBA is like summer camp. He'll enjoy wherever he goes.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Are you delusional? Hes an NBA superstar. They aren't trading him to a team that isn't on the list. And you think a team like Chicago is going to trade big assets like Noah and "hope" he stays? No. Not a chance.
> 
> You're being ridiculous.


Orlando's going to trade him to whoever offers the best package(if they even do trade him), list or no list. They don't care if he re-signs with his new team or not. My whole point is that Chicago _should_ (not will) trade for him, because they're unlikely to get past Miami with this squad and superstars don't walk on championship teams and take less money to head up a rebuilding program for a lottery team. That's even more ridiculous. He's *going* to take the hometown max if he's on a team that's legitimately contending for titles through the rest of his prime. It's just like Garnett's situation with Boston.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Hyperion said:


> You're being delusional. I remember when my brother went to summer camp. He said that he didn't want to go there because it wasn't where all of his friends were going. Well he went and really enjoyed it and went back the next year. Dwight's like an overgown child and the NBA is like summer camp. He'll enjoy wherever he goes.


I don't uhhh...... I'm not sure if you're being serious or not..


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Orlando's going to trade him to whoever offers the best package(if they even do trade him), list or no list. They don't care if he re-signs with his new team or not. My whole point is that Chicago _should_ (not will) trade for him, because they're unlikely to get past Miami with this squad and superstars don't walk on championship teams and take less money to head up a rebuilding program for a lottery team. That's even more ridiculous. He's *going* to take the hometown max if he's on a team that's legitimately contending for titles through the rest of his prime. It's just like Garnett's situation with Boston.


Again, why? Because you say he'll stay?

Chicago should roll the dice on your word? And if they don't win, or even if they do and he still walks? They're left with what? Rose, Deng, Boozer and nothing? No draft picks since they gave them all up for Dwight?


No. Chicago would be stupid to trade for him unless he made a clear desire to stay and play there.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Yeah, it's not like Dwight is a bad apple. They want him in Orlando, so they wouldn't give him away to someone like Chicago, unless they gave us an offer we can't refuse. Chicago isnt on his list and they dont have capspace. No reason to trade him there, just like no reason to trade him to LA.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Again, why? Because you say he'll stay?


Because it's completely illogical for him to leave. He's never said he wouldn't stay in Chicago, and I've seen "sources" give larger lists that include Chicago. If they want to win a title, they need another top guy. The new CBA gives some pretty big economic advantages to the hometown team, and Chicago would be the best place for Dwight to make money and win titles. 



R-Star said:


> Chicago should roll the dice on your word? And if they don't win, or even if they do and he still walks? They're left with what? Rose, Deng, Boozer and nothing? No draft picks since they gave them all up for Dwight?


If they do nothing they're left with losing in the conference finals every year until someone else puts a contender together or Rose gets fed up with it. The best way to retain stars is to compete for championships. Rose and Dwight together compete for championships. Why in the world would Dwight leave? Because it snows?


----------



## Firefight

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

The Bulls will NOT trade for Dwight without a contract in place... There is no way they give up anything of value to potentially rent Dwight for the playoffs. There isn't one NBA team that would trade for Howard without something in place. I think the possibility of him being traded is still there, but most likely, he finishes the year in Florida and then gets traded after the season is over in a sign and trade....

Again, I don't think Howard is coming to Chicago, but to say there is no chance is ridiculous, especially given the fact that they have assets to give. As far as this "list" goes, still haven't found any proof that it even exists...other than talk, which we know is cheap.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Because it's completely illogical for him to leave. He's never said he wouldn't stay in Chicago, and I've seen "sources" give larger lists that include Chicago. If they want to win a title, they need another top guy. The new CBA gives some pretty big economic advantages to the hometown team, and Chicago would be the best place for Dwight to make money and win titles.
> 
> 
> 
> If they do nothing they're left with losing in the conference finals every year until someone else puts a contender together or Rose gets fed up with it. The best way to retain stars is to compete for championships. Rose and Dwight together compete for championships. Why in the world would Dwight leave? Because it snows?


You've seen lists with Chicago on them have you? Care to post them? They either A) Don't exist or B) Come from Chicago writers.

Miami didn't win a title last year. They aren't a lock to win this year. So some of you Chicago fans really need to calm down with the whole sky is falling approach. In your post you basically wrote off Chicago for the next decade if they don't make a trade for Howard.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> You've seen lists with Chicago on them have you? Care to post them? They either A) Don't exist or B) Come from Chicago writers.


It was actually Dwight saying he wouldn't mind going to there.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/30/sports/la-sp-newswire-20120131



> "If I could play with Derrick right now and God wanted that to happen, it will happen," Howard said. "It has nothing to do with me not wanting to play with Derrick Rose. I love him. That's my brother."


Doesn't sound like a guy going out of his way to stay out of Chicago. He's also been quoted as saying that he'd take a look at Boston if they chased him in free agency. He's not making a huge deal out of weather if he can go to a good team.


----------



## GNG

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

LOL at putting this choice off on God. This has been you all along, Dwight.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> What's the starting salary for a max deal? From what I just saw on the Hoopshype salary page all we have to do is buyout Odom and get rid of Haywood or Marion.
> 
> And is it circumvention for them to sign those two first (hypothetically) then resign Kidd and Terry after because they don't need to be under the cap for them?


It's not just the guys you have under contract, there's a minimum cap hold on for every open roster spot up to 12. So, for example, if Dallas cleaned out everyone but Dirk and the two kids there'd still be a $4.5 million (or so) cap hold.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> It was actually Dwight saying he wouldn't mind going to there.
> 
> http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/30/sports/la-sp-newswire-20120131
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like a guy going out of his way to stay out of Chicago. He's also been quoted as saying that he'd take a look at Boston if they chased him in free agency. He's not making a huge deal out of weather if he can go to a good team.


You're using a quote where Dwight says its up to Jesus if he goes to the Bulls?

I'm still waiting for that list you mentioned where he has Chicago on it.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> You're using a quote where Dwight says its up to Jesus if he goes to the Bulls?
> 
> I'm still waiting for that list you mentioned where he has Chicago on it.


There is no "official" list he released - you know that, right? It was rumored at the start of the season he'd like to be on either LA team, Dallas, or Brooklyn. Then it was rumored that he wasn't interested in LA anymore. Then it was rumored he might be leaning toward staying in Orlando. Then he was quoted saying that he'd listen to the Celtics if they came with a free agent pitch and how he admired their mentality. Then he was quoted saying what boils down to "If I get traded to Chicago then that's what happens, I like their best player". That's as close to an endorsement of any franchise as he's given this year. If you need it put to you in list form so bad, the article I linked from the LA Times gave a little "list" in it.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Orlando gave Dwights agent permission to speak with three teams. Nets, Mavs and the Lakers.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Which is totally the same thing as Dwight declaring he'd only play for those three teams.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Which is totally the same thing as Dwight declaring he'd only play for those three teams.


Yea? Thats actually exactly what it is? His agent isn't some random guy trying to stir the pot, hes a guy Dwight hired and talks to daily about what he wants and where he'll go.

Dwight _told_ him to give permission to talk to those 3 teams. Unless of course you're insinuating Dwights agent went rouge.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Yea? Thats actually exactly what it is? His agent isn't some random guy trying to stir the pot, hes a guy Dwight hired and talks to daily about what he wants and where he'll go.
> 
> Dwight _told_ him to give permission to talk to those 3 teams. Unless of course you're insinuating Dwights agent went rouge.


What I'm insinuating is that Chicago hasn't been interested in breaking up their core to make a move, so it makes no sense to talk to a team that isn't interested. I'm saying they should get interested.

EDIT: Trying to work a deal with the three most likely teams to make a move that you'd be amenable to isn't the same as a refusal to play for other teams. As evidenced in Dwight being quoted as saying he'd look at other situations as well.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> What I'm insinuating is that Chicago hasn't been interested in breaking up their core to make a move, so it makes no sense to talk to a team that isn't interested. I'm saying they should get interested.
> 
> EDIT: Trying to work a deal with the three most likely teams to make a move that you'd be amenable to isn't the same as a refusal to play for other teams. As evidenced in Dwight being quoted as saying he'd look at other situations as well.


Absolute ridiculousness. Chicago isn't on Dwights list because Dwight knows Chicago probably doesn't want to break up their core for him? Wow. We're really reaching now aren't we.

And no, when someone like Dwight wants a trade they don't go to their agent and say "I want to be traded. No real specific team in mind. Just pick the 3 teams _you_ think would make a move for me."

Again, absolute garbage. Why some of you insist on living in some strange fairy tale land is beyond me.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Absolute ridiculousness. Chicago isn't on Dwights list because Dwight knows Chicago probably doesn't want to break up their core for him? Wow. We're really reaching now aren't we.
> 
> And no, when someone like Dwight wants a trade they don't go to their agent and say "I want to be traded. No real specific team in mind. Just pick the 3 teams _you_ think would make a move for me."
> 
> Again, absolute garbage. Why some of you insist on living in some strange fairy tale land is beyond me.


Chicago wasn't one of the teams that Dwight's agent was negotiating a trade with because *Chicago didn't want to make a trade*. Why is that so hard to understand? Dwight's laid it out himself, he wants to go somewhere he can win. That's his number one priority. He's gone so far as to say that he'd have an open mind about Chicago. You're being ridiculous by insisting that he'd walk on a title contender to headline a rebuild for less money. That doesn't happen.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Chicago wasn't one of the teams that Dwight's agent was negotiating a trade with because *Chicago didn't want to make a trade*. Why is that so hard to understand? Dwight's laid it out himself, he wants to go somewhere he can win. That's his number one priority. He's gone so far as to say that he'd have an open mind about Chicago. You're being ridiculous by insisting that he'd walk on a title contender to headline a rebuild for less money. That doesn't happen.


Chicago wasn't on his list because it wasn't one of the 3 teams he wanted to play for.

You honestly think he was sitting down to write the list and his agent said "Now slow down there Dwight. Chicago? No. I heard they aren't open to trading for superstars right now."

Chicago didn't want to make a trade. Now that takes the cake. Chicago would fall all over themselves to trade for Dwight if they thought they had a chance to land and keep him. The bullshit you keep trying to weave together its hilarious. 

"He would have put it #1 on his list but he heard they didn't want to make a trade." :laugh: Wow.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

:lol: at Chicago not wanting to trade for Howard. 

They'd pull the trigger in 2 seconds if they were assured that Dwight would extend.


----------



## Noyze

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

They would, Otis Smith said tonight that he got phone calls from all 29 teams since the allstar break ended.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Chicago isn't going to go chasing him if they know he is not interested. There's no reason for them to do that. Maybe some guy who gets talked about is too much like Odom or Gasol.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Noyze said:


> They would, Otis Smith said tonight that he got phone calls from all 29 teams since the allstar break ended.


Wouldn't doubt it. I know there's 0 chance he goes to the Pacers, but I'd be upset if Bird didn't even call. Hes Dwight Howard.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

If Pat Riley was running the gig I bet some teams would just say "why bother theres just no way for us to get Dwight". But since it's Otis Smith it is at least worth a try. I heard that Colangelo tried to offer Turkoglu for Dwight. It got turned down because Orlando figured out that we no longer have Turkoglu.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Yeah, i thought Otis was smart for a minute, for not extending Turkoglu to that ridic deal... and then he goes ahead and trades Gortat + Vince's a expiring for the opportunity to reacquire the contract, after he sees the big 3 form in Miami

bama:


----------



## Firefight

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> You've seen lists with Chicago on them have you? Care to post them? They either A) Don't exist or B) Come from Chicago writers.
> 
> Miami didn't win a title last year. They aren't a lock to win this year. So some of you Chicago fans really need to calm down with the whole sky is falling approach. In your post you basically wrote off Chicago for the next decade if they don't make a trade for Howard.



...and yet, YOU haven't shown any proof a "list" was released with the teams you claim to be on it....


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Firefight said:


> ...and yet, YOU haven't shown any proof a "list" was released with the teams you claim to be on it....


Sweet Jesus, look it up. 3 teams. His agent gave the names of 3 teams Dwight wanted to be traded to.

Do you dispute that?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



> Chris Mannix: Oklahoma City is not in the Dwight Howard sweepstakes. Not giving up Harden/Ibaka. Not happening.





> Brian Schmitz: Magic have talked to OKC but Thunder balks at giving up Ibaka and Harden to rent Dwight


I know I'm the main person that says anyone trying to rent Dwight is an idiot, but this is the exception...because IMO you win the title this year, he doesn't opt out, and then you win it next year and he resigns...and you win again and again...There are dynastic implications with this one....Presti is a fool not to do it and Dwight is a bigger fool if he got there and left anyway.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I know KD is a humble dude and all, but i question if the chemistry will work there. Westbrook already shoots too much, Dwight thinks he should be a closer, and KD already called Dwight out on his bball IQ at the all-star game. 

All three think they are the best player, and the worst of the 3 takes the most shots(Westbrook). Dwight already thinks he needs more touches, and as soon as they lose in the playoffs, everyone would be pointing the finger at each other. 

Although the best offensive player, the best defensive player, and the most athletic pg would be nice in theory, i question whether the personalities work.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Nah. KD and Westbrook work fine together, that whole situation is overblown I'm starting to see. 

Dwight can say something about his role sometimes but he's not the type to be a malcontent or make it a real issue. The Magic used to shoot 3s all day while he boxed out and got too few touches and he was still bouncing around and smiling. He hasn't made a serious issue in a place where there's no respectable no. 2 scorer, so he'll be even more understanding down there with two all-star wing players. There's no way that wouldn't work.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Do you think they'd take Gortat for dwight?


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Cinco de Mayo said:


> LOL at putting this choice off on God. This has been you all along, Dwight.


I would just love to see Dwight's reaction if he had a dream that God told him he wants him to play in Charlotte.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Hyperion said:


> Do you think they'd take Gortat for dwight?


Only if the Suns are willing to include Josh Childress and Hakim Warrick.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

The suns would have to ask for orlando's first unprotected draft pick 2013


----------



## Job

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Howard may want the same type of opportunity that Lebron had. Howard would probably enjoy the attention involved with the recruiting process.
Howard will make his decision on live TV.:whoknows:


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



> The Orlando Magic would like to seriously engage the Bulls in trade talks for Dwight Howard, but the All-Star center's apparent reluctance to make a long-term commitment to Chicago has all but killed the discussions, league sources told CBSSports.com


http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/k...t-not-if-the-magic-could-trade-him-to-chicago

B-b-but there's no proof! Dwight hasn't come on TV and said Chicago isn't happening!


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I wouldn't hate Dwight to Chicago. D Rose is my boy but I don't think he's talented enough to take the Heat out 4 times out of 7. Howard would more than level the playing field, and all things considered Chicago can offer one of the more attractive deals can they not?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/k...t-not-if-the-magic-could-trade-him-to-chicago
> 
> B-b-but there's no proof! Dwight hasn't come on TV and said Chicago isn't happening!


Thanks for the link friend.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I don't get why Howard won't stay with Chicago long term, really makes me think less of him if it's true.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

With the caveat that it's not really possible I'll be hypothetical:

Dwight to Chicago is problematic because you'd have to gut your team to get him. The Bulls have too little margin for error with the team they have *now* to consider trading 3 for 1 and getting better or even it being lateral. 

You'd probably have to do Noah, Deng and probably Gibson. Do you have cap room after that? You'd have to amnesty Boozer and maybe get some...I don't know but it makes them even more stuck then they are now. All they'd be able to do is chase old ringchasers.

It's not a good situation for Dwight even from a title winning perspective, not to mention Adidas just doesn't want their two biggest assets standing next to each other.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

If I'm Presti I mint myself and challenge Dwight. The only situation that Dwight could be traded to where he couldn't want out with a straight face is OKC. You do that and you have a better big 3 than Miami. 

Reporters: Why would you want something other than this situation in OKC Dwight? Could it be less about basketball and more about being famous? bama:

He doesn't want to confront that argument so he'd stay. Do it do it do it.

But of course the Thunder look like they'll be in the Finals this year so they're not really itching to do anything, especially something like that.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Addidas is stupid. There is a great ad campaign to be built around Dwight and Derrick on the same team.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Noah, Deng, Gibson for Dwight and Hedo? You have to do that. How does that not make the Bulls better?


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> If I'm Presti I mint myself and challenge Dwight. The only situation that Dwight could be traded to where he couldn't want out with a straight face is OKC. You do that and you have a better big 3 than Miami.
> 
> Reporters: Why would you want something other than this situation in OKC Dwight? Could it be less about basketball and more about being famous? bama:
> 
> He doesn't want to confront that argument so he'd stay. Do it do it do it.
> 
> But of course the Thunder look like they'll be in the Finals this year so they're not really itching to do anything, especially something like that.


Yeah, Okc is looking like they are headed down the road of passing up elite players because they think they don't need anymore talent. I think they are making a mistake.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> With the caveat that it's not really possible I'll be hypothetical:
> 
> Dwight to Chicago is problematic because you'd have to gut your team to get him. The Bulls have too little margin for error with the team they have *now* to consider trading 3 for 1 and getting better or even it being lateral.
> 
> You'd probably have to do Noah, Deng and probably Gibson. Do you have cap room after that? You'd have to amnesty Boozer and maybe get some...I don't know but it makes them even more stuck then they are now. All they'd be able to do is chase old ringchasers.
> 
> It's not a good situation for Dwight even from a title winning perspective, not to mention Adidas just doesn't want their two biggest assets standing next to each other.


Orlando trades:
Dwight Howard
Hedo Turkoglu

Chicago trades:
Luol Deng
Joakim Noah
Kyle Korver
Omer Asik

That was the last offer I saw that had a source behind it on the Bulls forum thread about getting Dwight. 

Rose/Hamilton/Brewer/Gibson/Howard with Turkoglu and Carlos Boozer off the bench, that's a better team on the court than they have now and as we sit here they are currently in 1st place out East. It wouldn't kill their chances of competing in the East.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



MemphisX said:


> Addidas is stupid. There is a great ad campaign to be built around Dwight and Derrick on the same team.


Wasn't one of their ad campaigns about TEAM or some shit...dummies :2ti:

I don't pretend to be a Forbes but apparently they want their main assets spread throughout the country to have a wider reach and compete with Nike.

This reminds me of the Kobe to Chicago stuff waaay back. I mean yeah, it's Kobe, but once you get him than what. It's tantalizing to think about but I just don't see what they could do to improve. And they'd have to improve cause what

Dwight/Boozer/Korver?/Rip/Rose isn't scaring Miami.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



BlakeJesus said:


> Orlando trades:
> Dwight Howard
> Hedo Turkoglu
> 
> Chicago trades:
> Luol Deng
> Joakim Noah
> Kyle Korver
> Omer Asik
> 
> That was the last offer I saw that had a source behind it on the Bulls forum thread about getting Dwight.
> 
> Rose/Hamilton/Brewer/Gibson/Howard with Turkoglu and Carlos Boozer off the bench, that's a better team on the court than they have now and as we sit here they are currently in 1st place out East. It wouldn't kill their chances of competing in the East.


Bumping this because it was the last post of the last page for me, and it seems like Dre missed this given his last post.


----------



## Dornado

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Gibson wouldn't start over Boozer, who would actually fit relatively nicely next to Howard. Other than that, sign me up.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

In any deal for Dwight involving Deng and Noah Chicago would be getting more back than just Howard. The salaries just wouldn't work otherwise. Most likely it would be Hedo and that definitely makes the Bulls better.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Losing Deng would be tough but if they're getting Dwight are they really going to hesitate? There's a slight difference between a lock down defensive swingman that's essentially a glue guy on the other side of the court and the best big of the era...Just saying.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dornado said:


> Gibson wouldn't start over Boozer, who would actually fit relatively nicely next to Howard. Other than that, sign me up.


You're right, Boozer would start.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I forgot about Brewer. 

But still the Bulls have one of the best defenses if not the best in the league _already_. Howard can bring more interior points, but then you just traded your second best source of perimeter points when that's your weakness. Hedo isn't the same offensively and can't defend anybody. He had that one run in Orlando against a team in Cleveland with noone to defend him. Miami doesn't have that problem. Would Thib even give him minutes?

It changes the dynamic but I still can't see it as more than a lateral move at best and you have no way of getting better. 

Dwight is a top tier player but the Bulls can't beat the Heat because of what's on the wing. If that's not addressed they still can't beat them.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



> The Warriors got nowhere when they recently tried to get Dwight Howard in a deal. A Warrior executive said the Magic turned down Monta Ellis and David Lee, with Orlando telling the Warriors it will only move Howard by Thursday’s trading deadline if it can get a “major player” in return. The only thing major about Ellis and Lee are their bloated contracts, with each pocketing about $11 million this season. It was a double setback for the Warriors, who know they won’t be able to get Howard this summer if he becomes a free agent. They thought they had a shot to sign him long term with Jerry West, now a Warrior consultant for owner Joe Lacob.


http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml#ixzz1oqOM2P7X

Ain't that cute..bless their little hearts


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/k...t-not-if-the-magic-could-trade-him-to-chicago
> 
> B-b-but there's no proof! Dwight hasn't come on TV and said Chicago isn't happening!


You understand my whole point was that Chicago should call him on that reluctance because he wouldn't be able to find a better situation or one that could pay him more money, right? I never said Dwight was _pushing_ for Chicago, but that it doesn't make any sense for him to leave.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> I forgot about Brewer.
> 
> But still the Bulls have one of the best defenses if not the best in the league _already_. Howard can bring more interior points, but then you just traded your second best source of perimeter points when that's your weakness. Hedo isn't the same offensively and can't defend anybody. He had that one run in Orlando against a team in Cleveland with noone to defend him. Miami doesn't have that problem. Would Thib even give him minutes?
> 
> It changes the dynamic but I still can't see it as more than a lateral move at best and you have no way of getting better.
> 
> Dwight is a top tier player but the Bulls can't beat the Heat because of what's on the wing. If that's not addressed they still can't beat them.


I think Dwight gives them a better chance. Right now the Bulls don't have anything on offense that would give Miami's defense match up problems. What it comes down to is whether the Heat would have more trouble guarding Dwight or the Bulls would have more trouble guarding Lebron without Deng. But at least the Bulls would have an advantage somewhere with Dwight. With their current lineup they really don't have an advantage on offense at any position. With Norris Cole added to the mix Rose will have a harder time this year than last year. Bosh and Boozer will cancel each other and Noah isn't a scoring threat.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> You understand my whole point was that Chicago should call him on that reluctance because he wouldn't be able to find a better situation or one that could pay him more money, right? I never said Dwight was _pushing_ for Chicago, but that it doesn't make any sense for him to leave.


big gamble - do you really think the bulls have the nads for it?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> You understand my whole point was that Chicago should call him on that reluctance because he wouldn't be able to find a better situation or one that could pay him more money, right? I never said Dwight was _pushing_ for Chicago, but that it doesn't make any sense for him to leave.


Was talking to the other guy who was talking about proof


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Lame attempt by Orlando to manufacture a trade market


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> Was talking to the other guy who was talking about proof


Oh, okay. Misunderstood.

Also, to e-monk: No, I don't think they do it.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

it's a big game of chicken at this point - if Im the Nets Im low balling the Magic like a mthr fkr and saying take it or leave it


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

They're going to keep him I think. They just don't see something worth doing, and they'd rather lose him for nothing I guess if they can't "convince him" to stay. He's got to sacrifice that money to leave...noone else did let's see if he'll be the first.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

yeah I dont think he goes before the dead line - I wouldnt be astonished if there arent any of the big moves and expect maybe just a flurry of little ones


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

According to si d howard has added the heat and clippers


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

There was talk about sending him to Chicago for Boozer, Deng and something/someone else - But the Bulls wanted Howard to commit to signing a long-term contract, to which he hasn't indicated he'd do.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



NOFX22 said:


> According to si d howard has added the heat and clippers


YES! LBJ for Superman! C'mon, Pat, make it happen. Make the funniest trade in NBA history a reality!


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



NOFX22 said:


> According to si d howard has added the heat and clippers


Yea, "sources" are saying he'd like to go there if he hit free agency. Neither team has cap space, the Clippers can't put together a package without including Blake(and they won't), and the Heat can't trade any of their three guys because they'd blow the whistle on the collusion/tampering that very obviously happened(to head some people off, I don't care that it happened, but the league _would_). I hope Dwight realizes that if Orlando plays hardball, he's looking at a pretty bleak free agent market for players.


----------



## Madstrike

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> YES! LBJ for Superman! C'mon, Pat, make it happen. Make the funniest trade in NBA history a reality!


give bosh and the rest of the entire heat squad(except lebron/wade) for dwight. A 3 players team howard/lebron and wade, I think its enough.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

if the clippers can get dwight they absolutely should be willing to trade griffin - would they? dont know but CP3/Dwight is terrifying while CP3/Blake is just kind of fun to watch


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I guess that the Clipper could theoretically do a trade based around DeAndre Jordan, but there's no reason why the Magic would take that. Maybe Jordan, Bledsoe and Mo Williams, but that isn't really going to interest the Magic much more than the other deals they've been offered. If he hits free agency the Clippers can sign him by moving other pieces around, but it's pretty complicated.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

If Orlando isn't touching the packages offered now, there's no reason they'd take that Clippers package


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

One scenario that could work for the clippers is right now the clips are trading eric bledsoe, ryan gomes for jamal crawford whos an expiring contract. both foye and cook are coming of the books. than we can amnesty or trade mo williams or caron butlet and that should give us enough cap space to sign howard


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



NOFX22 said:


> One scenario that could work for the clippers is right now the clips are trading eric bledsoe, ryan gomes for jamal crawford whos an expiring contract. both foye and cook are coming of the books. than we can amnesty or trade mo williams or caron butlet and that should give us enough cap space to sign howard


They're still short of being able to offer a max contract, unless they're going to dump DeAndre for cap space as well, and Dwight would also be leaving the money involved in a hometown max on the table. Does he like the Clippers enough to leave $40million on the table on his next deal?


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> They're still short of being able to offer a max contract, unless they're going to dump DeAndre for cap space as well, and Dwight would also be leaving the money involved in a hometown max on the table. Does he like the Clippers enough to leave $40million on the table on his next deal?


LA market can make it up with endorsements alone


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Rumors of Bulls package to Magic*

Never gonna happen.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Madstrike said:


> give bosh and the rest of the entire heat squad(except lebron/wade) for dwight. A 3 players team howard/lebron and wade, I think its enough.


With Howard, Bosh and Wade you're printing titles anyway. The trade wouldn't get done for Wade and they could probably get as much as Bosh from other teams and just give Miami the finger. James on the other hand? That'd happen in a cocaine heartbeat and be, literally, the funniest trade in NBA history (as James would land smack dab in the middle of the very situation he was fleeing, and with nothing he can do).


----------



## Ron

*Re: Rumors of Bulls package to Magic*



johnredman24 said:


> Read an article and heard some birdies saying that the Chicago Bulls have put together a package of Boozer, Deng, Asik, and a first round pick from Charlotte for Howard and Trukoglu.
> 
> 
> 
> Article that I found. Not a very well known source but they have good inside info on Chicago Sports. Could also just be a crazy rumor, whatever the case it gets us talking!


The fact that StupidMan won't commit to a "sign and trade" makes it virtually impossible for him to go to either Chicago or Los Angeles.

The guy is delusional...if he really wants to be traded, then does he really think a team is going to give up huge assets to rent him for six weeks? What the **** is this guy thinking anyway?

I am sure glad he is over the top...no way Bynum gets moved for him now.  We'll see Dwight in a Mavs uniform beginning next season for sure.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> That'd happen in a cocaine heartbeat


Reading your posts and eating at the same time is not advisable.  My screen is a mess.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Rumors of Bulls package to Magic*



Ron said:


> The fact that StupidMan won't commit to a "sign and trade" makes it virtually impossible for him to go to either Chicago or Los Angeles.
> 
> The guy is delusional...if he really wants to be traded, then does he really think a team is going to give up huge assets to rent him for six weeks? What the **** is this guy thinking anyway?
> 
> I am sure glad he is over the top...no way Bynum gets moved for him now.  We'll see Dwight in a [strike]Mavs[/strike] NETS uniform beginning next season for sure.


Ahem.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I'm really starting to think the Magic are going to defer all this drama until the summer and let it be all about walking away from the money - risky business that, but we'll see


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

in fact if they had any assets worth taking other than Dwight right now might be the time to try and skim-dangle them (but of course they dont)


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Dwight is just like Lebron...he'll waffle back and forth, but ultimately he's going to go to the place he sees as the sexiest. That's why he just expanded his list to include Clippers and Miami.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I'm still riding with BK or Dallas, most likely BK. 

Just don't see a situation where he's traded in the next 3 days unless somebody, most likely him, drastically changes their mind about something.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Dre said:


> I'm still riding with BK or Dallas, most likely BK.
> 
> Just don't see a situation where he's traded in the next 3 days unless somebody, most likely him, drastically changes their mind about something.


He's not getting traded, count on it.

I still think Dallas, but the Clippers do have a shot and have the cap room as well. Miami? someone said above? they don't have the cap room...it would have to be a sign-and-trade and get rid of the "not 1, not 2, not 3..." championship tandem.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

I don't even know what I would do if Miami swapped Dwight for James. I probably couldn't even root against Miami anymore because of the comedic value.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

There is no chance for Miami to trade any of the big 3. It would be dick move for the organization since all 3 took less money to play together.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

They could do Bosh. He's good enough to keep Orlando in the bottom half of the playoff hunt depending on what you put around him. 

And it's not Riley's prerogative to keep them together because they took less money. They took less money to win, and if they didn't this year they wouldn't be fulfilling their end of the bargain.

But LeBron is the MVP and having one of his most impressive seasons ever, so is there a reason anyone is even entertaining that other than it being "funny" but not really 

Miami is a pipedream.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

You know what though, I'd say whoever loses between Miami and OKC, probably OKC should try for the S&T if it gets that far. 

**** that "don't help him get the last year" crap you armchair GMs spew, if you could get Harden and Ibaka or Bosh and whatever go for it.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

Lebron is like 50 times more valuable than anything that has been offered for Howard so far. Wade is like 30 times more and Bosh is like 3 times more valuable than anything that has been offered to the Magic. So the Heat could trade for Howard without much difficulty. Basketball wise the thing that would make the most sense would be to trade Wade, since Lebron does everything he does and more. If you trade Bosh you're still pretty small.

If the Magic trade Howard they probably get shit back, but if they could get a real star they'd have probably done it already.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Luke said:


> I don't even know what I would do if Miami swapped Dwight for James. I probably couldn't even root against Miami anymore because of the comedic value.


It would be high comedy. James flees Cleveland for Miami to escape a toxic wasteland only to end right back in one. Only this time with no exit.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> It would be high comedy. James flees Cleveland for Miami to escape a toxic wasteland only to end right back in one. Only this time with no exit.


Jameer Nelson could even shorten his name to "Me" in honor of the great Mo Williams and the second round exists would be bountiful.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*

He has an opt out in like two years


----------



## Ron

*Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

*ESPN: Dwight Howard could determine fate of front office*

You have got to be shitting me.  :|


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

:clap2:


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

that is some 85 year old Al Davis type crazy


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

:lol:


----------



## rynobot

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Is there any other source for the news coming from Orlando? Is the source named? If not then I don't believe that Orlando would give Howard the ability to fire Otis Smith and Stan Van Gundy. 

If it is true then that is pretty stupid. Howard is a great player but what does he know about building a winning team or even winning championships?


----------



## rynobot

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

LOL! ESPN is reporting this using one unnamed source so I definitly don't believe it.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



> Magic CEO: Only the DeVos family decides who manages the team
> 
> The Orlando Magic moved today to knock down an ESPN report that said team officials have promised Dwight Howard that Howard "can decide the fate of both GM Otis Smith and coach Stan Van Gundy at the end of the season if he signs an extension."
> 
> Magic officials released a statement from Chief Executive Officer Alex Martins that read: "The only person(s) who have the final say on coaches and management is the Orlando Magic ownership."
> 
> Beyond that, Martins would not comment. As he has before, Martins cited an agreement that he has made with Howard in which both parties pledged that they would not divulge the details of their conversations.
> 
> Martins has taken the lead role in attempting to convince Howard to remain with the franchise, and Martins has kept in almost daily contact with Howard since Martins was promoted to the CEO's job in December.
> 
> 
> Howard would not speak with reporters after the Magic completed their shootaround today to prepare for tonight's game against the Miami Heat.
> 
> Howard is under contract with the Magic through the 2012-13 season, but he can exercise an early termination option in his current deal that would allow him to become a free agent in July. He has not committed to staying with the team for the long-term, and all indications are that he wants to test free agency.
> 
> Magic officials have said all along that they want to keep Howard for years to come, but they have said since December that they will leave their options option and have not ruled out trading Howard if they believe they have no other choice.
> 
> If the Magic do not trade Howard before Thursday's 3 p.m. NBA trade deadline, Howard could sign with another team in July. And if that happens, the Magic could be left with no assets in return, which would decimate the Magic's on-court product in the short-term.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-magic-dwight-howard-news-0314-20120313,0,1286334.story


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Oh, like THIS RESPONSE ^^^ wasn't ever gonna happen. :lol:


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Ron said:


> Oh, like THIS RESPONSE ^^^ wasn't ever gonna happen. :lol:


Yea, but it happened because ESPN lied. Its not like it would be the first time ESPN makes false reports, then just takes it off its website and pretends it never happened.

They're the biggest dirtbags in the business, throwing lies at the wall and waiting for one to stick.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

it seems ESPN is trying to sabotage Orlando's chances of keeping Howard...


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

At this point if I'm Orlando, I want to trade Dwight for the best package I can get, hopefully quality young players and picks. Or a star name who can still fool fans into thinking you have a chance with. 

I'd want to part ways if I was Orlando. Dwight has made this into a Lebron James three ring circus. You can pretty much guarantee if Lebron didn't get blasted for "The Decision" Dwight would already have a date with ESPN planned.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Blue said:


> it seems ESPN is trying to sabotage Orlando's chances of keeping Howard...


because what kind of news story is that? now a big trade on the other hand, that's news


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



> Source: Magic want Lakers back in Dwight Howard mix
> 
> With Thursday’s 3 p.m. trading deadline closing in, the NBA universe is still spinning around the best big man in the game—Orlando’s Dwight Howard, who is gearing up for free agency this summer and could be dealt by the Magic before the deadline in order to ensure that the team does not lose him with no assets in return.
> 
> The Magic are still trying to acquire pieces to put around Howard and make a run at a championship this year, in hopes that such a run would convince Howard to stay put in Orlando. But the team knows it has an option to make a deal with the New Jersey Nets on Thursday if there are no other workable options. And on Tuesday, the Magic shot down a rumor that suggested the team would allow Howard a say in its coaching and front office situations if he committed to staying.
> 
> The Magic hope the Lakers get back into the mix for Dwight Howard, according to a source. (AP photo)
> One thing the Magic are holding out for, a source told Sporting News, is the resurrection of talks with the Los Angeles Lakers. As the process has played out, it has become clear that the Magic are not going to get a better player in return for Howard than All-Star Lakers center Andrew Bynum. Back in December, the Lakers had strong interest in Howard, but team VP Jim Buss said there was no way he would trade both Pau Gasol and Bynum to the Magic for Howard. Given Bynum’s injury history, a deal in which Bynum was the main target was a longshot.
> 
> Still, rumors of a deal involving Bynum persisted, and when he was asked about it on media day, Bynum said, “If they were able to pull a move like that off, it would be great for the organization, and I’d be in Orlando, you know, hoopin’.”
> 
> Now the question is whether the Lakers would give up Bynum at all in a package for Howard. He has been healthy all season—a major concern when it comes to Bynum and his balky knees—and at just 24 years old, is showing the potential to be almost as good as Howard, with averages of 17.7 points and 12.6 rebounds, numbers that would probably balloon if Bynum were not playing with Gasol and Kobe Bryant. Buss has had an affinity for Bynum throughout his career, and has been trying to secure a point guard he can pair with Bynum for the long haul.
> 
> But, come Thursday, if the Magic can’t find a better package than one built around New Jersey’s Brook Lopez, the option could be there to scrap the Bynum rebuilding altogether and bring Howard to Lakerland.


http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-03-13/nba-trade-rumors-lakers-dwight-howard-orlando-magic-want-la-in-mix


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Off topic, but I am surprised Dwight hasn't looked at Philly yet. They can this offseason dump Nocioni, Hawes, and Brand(amnesty) and save up to 64 million. They would still have a a very nice core with Iggy, Lou, Holiday, and Thad to go with Dwight and they would still have an excellent coach. On top that, Philly is a big market and Dwight would be the "man" filling a void AI left 6 years ago.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

I'm wondering if the Lakers would be willing to have Howard opt in to the last year of his contract like Chris Paul did. Still a risk IMO.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I'm wondering if the Lakers would be willing to have Howard opt in to the last year of his contract like Chris Paul did. Still a risk IMO.


**** that. The Lakers should not even consider it without a sign and trade, and I wouldn't do it anyway.

What is with all this Howard obsession in Lakerland...hello Laker fans, we need a ****ing point guard! We already have a center!


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Ron said:


> **** that. The Lakers should not even consider it without a sign and trade, and I wouldn't do it anyway.
> 
> What is with all this Howard obsession in Lakerland...hello Laker fans, we need a ****ing point guard! We already have a center!


Because Dwight is better (by a lot) then Bynum? And doesn't have the huge injury concerns?


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Game3525 said:


> Off topic, but I am surprised Dwight hasn't looked at Philly yet. They can this offseason dump Nocioni, Hawes, and Brand(amnesty) and save up to 64 million. They would still have a a very nice core with Iggy, Lou, Holiday, and Thad to go with Dwight and they would still have an excellent coach. On top that, Philly is a big market and Dwight would be the "man" filling a void AI left 6 years ago.


Dwight's main goal isn't winning. Otherwise the teams he would be interested in would be a lot different. Philly with him would be incredible. Hell OKC could offer probably better for him then a lot of teams (Ibaka, multiple first rounders). People have brought up Chicago, etc, etc.


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Ron said:


> **** that. The Lakers should not even consider it without a sign and trade, and I wouldn't do it anyway.
> 
> What is with all this Howard obsession in Lakerland...hello Laker fans, we need a ****ing point guard! We already have a center!


Lakers/Cavs deal make a lot of sense: Sessions for a 1st works. We can even eat Walton's salary if Buss has become that much of a tightwad


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Pioneer10 said:


> *Dwight's main goal isn't winning.* Otherwise the teams he would be interested in would be a lot different. Philly with him would be incredible. Hell OKC could offer probably better for him then a lot of teams (Ibaka, multiple first rounders). People have brought up Chicago, etc, etc.


Yeah, that has become apparent.

There are so many better options then the Nets IMO.......oh well, it is his career.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Addidas contract renegotiations coming up that mean a whole lot more bank than any team can offer him


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Winning, or at least competing for the title every year, is all that really matters when it comes to national/international sponsorships.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Pioneer10 said:


> Lakers/Cavs deal make a lot of sense: Sessions for a 1st works. We can even eat Walton's salary if Buss has become that much of a tightwad


Lakers don't want to give up a 1, that is why the deal wasn't done last Thursday.

It's a sticking point. But I agree, we need Sessions.

Badly.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Addidas already sponsors Jrue


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



> Howard Determined To End Up With Nets
> 
> Dwight Howard's request for a strong supporting cast and the possibility of signing an extension with the Magic is a ruse as he plans on eventually signing with the Nets, according to sources.
> 
> “Dwight’s gone, and [Magic CEO] Alex Martins is the only person who doesn’t believe that,” a league source with knowledge of Howard’s intentions told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> Howard has created the illusion that he may remain with the Magic because he reportedly dislikes confrontation and believes a trade is no longer in his best long-term interests.
> 
> Howard is privately telling people the acquisition of better complementary players could convince him to stay, leagues sources told Marc J. Spears.
> 
> But Howard's camp, according to sources, is clear that Howard will sign with the Nets at the start of free agency.
> 
> Otis Smith and Stan Van Gundy know Howard is set to leave the Magic and would like a trade.
> 
> “Otis and Stan want the circus to end,” one source close to them said. “They want a deal.”
> 
> Martins has improved the franchise’s relationship with Howard, multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports. But as one source talking to Martins and Howard said: “That’s great, but [Dwight’s] still going to leave.”
> 
> Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219681/Howard_Determined_To_End_Up_With_Nets#ixzz1p2HsKzK2


bama:


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

RealGM isn't much better than Hoopsworld, and they aren't good at all.

They make shit up.

I still think Howard goes to July 1, then signs with Dallas or the Clippers.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_dwight_howard_magic_nets_trade_031312


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_dwight_howard_magic_nets_trade_031312


> Said another official, who has been involved in deal talks with Orlando, New Jersey and the agents in the process: “Dwight is going to [expletive] them, and that will be especially true if he doesn’t even ask for the sign-and-trade on July 1, because he wants Brooklyn to keep assets.”
> 
> Why would Howard push for a trade now? So the Nets have to give up Brook Lopez and draft picks? For Howard, he can finish the season with the Magic, make the playoffs and leave on July 1 for a contract with the Nets, who can offer him a four-year, $81 million deal – about $28 million less than what the Magic can give him in a fifth year. Adidas wants him in a major market – New York or Los Angeles – and this scenario promises him the highest possible value on his upcoming renegotiation on his shoe deal.


bama:


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Just heard SVGs response. SVG and Otis have been throwing Dwight under the bus since summer. Dwight is pretty much gone. Thanks Otis and Stan... 

Sure, you guys care about winning yet while you say that you're practically kicking the only reason we DO win consistently out the door... :whatever:

At least Alex Martins has some understanding of who fans pay to see, and knows how handle a situation... Its too bad Otis and Stan soured the organization beyond repair for him. I dont blame Dwight at all for wanting out after seeing how his higher-ups and management have handled this whole situation. Go riddance Otis & Stan. Go Nets!


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Blue said:


> Just heard SVGs response. SVG and Otis have been throwing Dwight under the bus since summer. Dwight is pretty much gone. Thanks Otis and Stan...
> 
> Sure, you guys care about winning yet while you say that you're practically kicking the only reason we DO win consistently out the door... :whatever:
> 
> At least Alex Martins has some understanding of who fans pay to see, and knows how handle a situation... Its too bad Otis and Stan soured the organization beyond repair for him. I dont blame Dwight at all for wanting out after seeing how his higher-ups and management have handled this whole situation.


What was Stan's response? Where did you hear that?

Frankly, I don't see how Dwight's the victim in this whole thing.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Stan pretty much said, Dwight doesn't care about winning. He kind of said sarcastically and demeamingly, "I think the coaching staff are the only ppl here who really care about winning..." "'certain players' dont really care about the wins, they only look at the losses"

#idiot. 

just stop talking already.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Blue said:


> Stan pretty much said, Dwight doesn't care about winning. He kind of said sarcastically and demeamingly, "I think the coaching staff are the only ppl here who really care about winning..." "'certain players' dont really care about the wins, they only look at the losses"
> 
> #idiot.
> 
> just stop talking already.


What is he supposed to say? "Please stay Dwight! PLEASE!" 

Dwight is leaving because he wants to leave, and let everyone know he wanted to leave. Don't play the victim for him. He's leaving because he doesn't want to be there. Not because of SVG or Otis.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

If I were Orlando I believe I would start talking about tampering by the Nets right about now. It probably wouldn't do you any good, but if you believe the Woj story then that means that the Nets are tampering and if you can prove that then the penalty would be that the league would not allow them to sign Howard. It certainly would not harm you in the trade talks.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Otis will go down as the worst GM since Isiah Thomas if Dwight leaves without even a s&t.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Diable said:


> If I were Orlando I believe I would start talking about tampering by the Nets right about now. It probably wouldn't do you any good, but if you believe the Woj story then that means that the Nets are tampering and if you can prove that then the penalty would be that the league would not allow them to sign Howard. It certainly would not harm you in the trade talks.


I agree only for the reason that it would cool teams jets a bit in the future. Everyone knows damn well there was collusion and tampering with Miami, and its the same situation with the Nets.

I refuse to believe the Nets haven't talked to Howard since this all started.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



seifer0406 said:


> Otis will go down as the worst GM since Isiah Thomas if Dwight leaves without even a s&t.


I don't agree. There's teams that stink perennially every year. Yet you get a Dwight or Lebron on a team and they can't lead it anywhere, and all of the sudden the GM is a joke. These players need to start taking some responsibility.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Nets have permission to talk w Howards agent.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*










*http://store.nba.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12458953*


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Knicks4life said:


> *http://store.nba.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12458953*


:laugh:


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Van Gundy and Smith are over it because they know he's gone. Smith wants to trade him but Devos won't let him.

Hopefully the old man don't get herbed this July and at least gets a TPE or something back


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



> WallaceNBA_ESPN: Dwight said he's informed Magic he wants to stay for rest of season. Said they now must "roll the dice."


...


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Haha, yeah, roll the dice. That sounds encouraging.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Knicks4life said:


> ...


Magic are dumb he is just trying to make sure the team that he is going to doesnt gut their franchise to deal for him...Just trade him already and rebuild


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Hahaha.

What a ****ing douche.

He's going to Jersey but he doesn't want them to lose assets.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

lol'd at this:

@bruce_arthur: If Orlando doesn't trade Dwight now, they're the guy who thinks that stripper really likes them.
about a minute ago


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

We just beat Chicago and Miami, but that is fools gold. Were still not good enough to beat either in a series... Probably need 2 ship him out


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Orlando should just do a public auction for Dwight Howard with all 29 teams that want him, and have ESPN televise it. That would blow "The Decision's" ratings out of the water.


----------



## Bubbles

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Smart by Dwight. Why not stick it out for one more month plus playoffs and sign with the Nets come July?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Prince said:


> Smart by Dwight. Why not stick it out for one more month plus playoffs and sign with the Nets come July?


Your meaning of smart shows up as piece of shit dirt bag in my dictionary.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Prince said:


> Smart by Dwight. Why not stick it out for one more month plus playoffs and sign with the Nets come July?


exactly...if the Magic are dumb enough to let him do this then he should do this


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



FSH said:


> exactly...if the Magic are dumb enough to let him do this then he should do this


And hopefully they let him walk.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Well they see what Melo is going through after the Knicks gave up so much for him and don't want that. This situation is pretty much the culmination of the Bron, Melo, Paul fiascoes. He saw the pros and cons of each situation and is using it to his advantage.

Call it what you want, I call it smart personally. Chances are Fegan thought this up, Dwight's not that smart


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

At this point if I'm Otis I go to Devos and lay it all on the table. Since he doesn't want the Nets to lose much by trading him..ok, fine. They don't have to. Let's rent the asshole to Houston for whatever and keep it moving. 

Smith's going to lose his job probably regardless, might as well go out fighting


----------



## Bubbles

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



R-Star said:


> Your meaning of smart shows up as piece of shit dirt bag in my dictionary.


Maybe. Still, going off what the Knicks have gone through after gutting their team for Melo, can't really blame Dwight (I'm sure the Nets have had similar thoughts) for not wanting to go through with the trade.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Blame the players all you want, but its the retards in the GM chairs that keep enabling this behavior.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

It's a pr move. Now he's got a built in excuse when they trade him. "Oh but I wanted to finish the year with Orlando. #sadpanda I didn't want to be traded but now that I'm here, I'm a ____ and I'm here to help the _____ win a championship."


----------



## Dre

*The outcome*

To be merged into main Dwight Howard thread, do not reply please


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

I did all that work making the poll and because I closed the thread I merged it into its closed. Maybe I'll do it again tommorow


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

do the Nets have the money to keep Brook Lopez and sign Dwight Howard?


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

I don't like Dwight and Lopez on the same team


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Brian said:


> I don't like Dwight and Lopez on the same team


I think its not a bad idea. Howard still isnt the greatest offensive player but Lopez can score and cant rebound for shit or really play defense...Put them together and it will be a really good C/PF combo let Howard dominate on defense and the boards but it take pressure off him to score 20+ppg


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Lopez would be traded obviously


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Dre said:


> Lopez would be traded obviously


If they can have both why? Their games are totally different so unless they are gonna trade him for a SG or a SF i dont see why not try them out together

I dont know the Nets cap situation but unless they can trade Lopez for a Andre Iguodala do it all type i dont see why not try Howard/Lopez together with Deron


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Lopez is not a power forward I don't think. Plus teams would be excited enough about him to trade the supplemental pieces the Nets would need.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Dre said:


> Lopez is not a power forward I don't think. Plus teams would be excited enough about him to trade the supplemental pieces the Nets would need.


Yep. Too slow-footed.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

...Though having him next to the best interior defender in the league might work. :whoknows:


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Hopefully the Nets can get him in a trade. There is just way too much that can happen between now and July to wait for free agency.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Nets could trade Lopez to the Hawks for Smith perhaps? They're in need of a center to pair with Horford.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Imagine if there is no trade, the Nets get the #1 pick, and the Magic flame out in the playoffs.

Deron Williams
MarShon Brooks
Anthony Davis
Dwight Howard

maybe sign and trade Lopez for a good wing..

I can dream.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



> Magic insider/reporter David Pingalore reported before the MIA/ORL game that Magic have two offers on the table and Dwight will be dealt to either NJ or LAL if he is not signing an extension with Orlando (video included in link):
> 
> Quote:
> According to those sources, the Nets are offering Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, MarShon Brooks and two No. 1 draft picks in exchange for Howard. The Lakers are offering Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher and Metta World Peace (formerly Ron Artest) for Howard, Hedo Turkoglu and Chris Duhon.
> 
> Those same sources say there is a holdup with the Lakers in terms of taking on the contracts of Turkoglu and Duhon.
> 
> If Howard is not traded, there is still a good chance he will not stay with Orlando. According to Pingalore's sources, Howard is leaning toward not signing a contract extension with the Magic.


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/So...oward/-/1637132/9289198/-/xr1qvx/-/index.html


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Interesting. Who knows if any of this shit is correct, but it's interesting.

If the Magic have any sense, take the Bynum deal. Atleast he's a legit presence. How long does Metta have on his contract though? Dude is cooked.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Blue said:


> http://www.clickorlando.com/news/So...oward/-/1637132/9289198/-/xr1qvx/-/index.html


There is no way we are offering that. King should lose his job if that report is real.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

I don't know...Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and two 1sts isn't bad...


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Actually Dwight's ****ing indecisive and if the Lakers are gunning hard for him again it may be best to just get it done...


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

He's really not indecisive at this point...at least in terms of saying no to LA. LA's been out of the running for weeks...


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Blue said:


> http://www.clickorlando.com/news/So...oward/-/1637132/9289198/-/xr1qvx/-/index.html


As a Lakers fan I'd do that trade in a second. 

Howard>Bynum
Duhon>Fisher
Turkoglu>MWP


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

He said no to LA?


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

He's made it clear through his "people" LA isn't an option


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



kbdullah said:


> I don't know...Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and two 1sts isn't bad...


It aint bad, but i'd take the Lakers deal over that. 

Realistically, Humphries will get paid by somebody, so he's a rental.

Lopez is solid, but he's not a franchise big. You can't build a team around him. 

Brooks looks promising, but he's no superstar.

The 2 1sts is nice, particularly if 1 of them is this years. That's a top 6 pick.

Still - Drew Bynum is an All-Star who is still in his prime. You can build a team around him, because he's a solid 2 way player. Either way you're in for a rebuild, there's no doubt about it. But Bynum allows them to stay competitive. Nets deal is the tank job. The Magic have probably won too many games to start tanking now though.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Brian said:


> There is no way we are offering that. King should lose his job if that report is real.


It's alot, but do you hold back and risk losing out on both Deron AND Howard in the summer?


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Nets have been the bridesmaid before also.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Wade County said:


> Still - Drew Bynum is an All-Star who is still in his prime. You can build a team around him, because he's a solid 2 way player. Either way you're in for a rebuild, there's no doubt about it. But Bynum allows them to stay competitive. Nets deal is the tank job. The Magic have probably won too many games to start tanking now though.


But are you willing to pay big who appears to be injury prone max money because that is something you are going to have to do if you trade for Bynum, and then you have to factor in the fact that he is a free agent after next year what if he does not like the direction the Magic are going and wants to leave the Magic would be stuck in the same situation a year later.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Dre said:


> He's made it clear through his "people" LA isn't an option


So he's gonna walk away from Kobe and Pau if he's shipped there? I know its less endorsements cause hes gotta share the spotlight, but LA is more ready-made to win than NJ is if they keep Pau.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

If LAL get Dwight they need to ship Pau immediately for smaller pieces. Too bad Lowry injured himself, a Scola-Lee-Lowry trade could have worked for them.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Blue said:


> So he's gonna walk away from Kobe and Pau if he's shipped there? I know its less endorsements cause hes gotta share the spotlight, but LA is more ready-made to win than NJ is if they keep Pau.


He can walk away from LA without the repercussions and backlash because it's becoming a shitshow over there with the younger Buss, and Kobe isn't young. The Lakers won't even engage Orlando because they know this. The article said the Magic want to talk to the Lakers, not the other way around.

It's not a next year move, it's a 5 year move, and he'd be better off in NJ no doubt.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Wade County said:


> It aint bad, but i'd take the Lakers deal over that.
> 
> Realistically, Humphries will get paid by somebody, so he's a rental.
> 
> Lopez is solid, but he's not a franchise big. You can't build a team around him.
> 
> Brooks looks promising, but he's no superstar.
> 
> The 2 1sts is nice, particularly if 1 of them is this years. That's a top 6 pick.
> 
> Still - Drew Bynum is an All-Star who is still in his prime. You can build a team around him, because he's a solid 2 way player. Either way you're in for a rebuild, there's no doubt about it. But Bynum allows them to stay competitive. Nets deal is the tank job. The Magic have probably won too many games to start tanking now though.


I like Bynum, but it's hard to sell your fans on Fisher and MWP contracts. At least w/ Lopez, Brooks, Humphries, 1sts, you get five young pieces as opposed to just one in Bynum. Bynum's the best player offered by BKN offering the best deal.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Dre said:


> He can walk away from LA without the repercussions and backlash because it's becoming a shitshow over there with the younger Buss, and Kobe isn't young. The Lakers won't even engage Orlando because they know this. The article said the Magic want to talk to the Lakers, not the other way around.
> 
> It's not a next year move, it's a 5 year move, and he'd be better off in NJ no doubt.


Yeah, he would rather go to NJ and play with PG who will pass him freakin ball, i understand that... but it's not entirely in his hands anymore either. Orlando owns his rights, so they might ask him where he wants to go or they might just ship him wherever they please. 

He's made it clear that he wanted a trade, and we already know LA is good enough,so its too late to take it back. Its already out there. If LA just has to give up Bynum, they probably do it..


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

I repeat LA is not going to engage on Bynum if Howard gives no assurance he's staying, so it's a moot point. 

Buss had to be convinced to dangle Bynum early in the season...so no way he trades him without Dwight onboard, which isn't likely. So in effect they're not good enough.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Are people forgetting that Andrew Bynum is an unrestricted free agent after next season?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Are people forgetting that Andrew Bynum is an unrestricted free agent after next season?


Not a problem, he will get extended by the Lakers.

Buss isn't moving Bynum...if he had any doubts, tonight's game erased them. Bynum has been unbelievable the past couple of weeks.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Ron said:


> Not a problem, he will get extended by the Lakers.
> 
> Buss isn't moving Bynum...if he had any doubts, tonight's game erased them. Bynum has been unbelievable the past couple of weeks.


No, he meant that Orlando wouldn't do Howard for Bynum because they'd go through the exact same thing next year, only with a lesser player.


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*

Dwight Howard is officially a bigger bitch than even LeBron. He is hanging Orlando by their nut sack right now.

Good. I needed a new diva to hate since Kobe has become so much more tolerable


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



> Orlando says it will trade Dwight if he doesn't commit to staying at least next year


@Chris_Broussard

Link to story: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7...e-dwight-howard-absent-commitment-sources-say


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Trade him and get it over already, my goodness. Soap opera.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

What are they gonna corner him in the bathroom..it's not like they have much time to twiddle their thumbs and have meetings with him. 

The time for all the talk about what you might or could do is over...They got like 30 hours left if they're going to do something they need to do it. 

What would be fun to watch is what happens with the Nets this season if they get him...would they sneak into the playoffs


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

If they do sneak into the playoffs I don't see any reason why a Deron and Dwight team wouldn't be able to compete with Chicago in a 7 game series.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Basel said:


> @Chris_Broussard
> 
> Link to story: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7...e-dwight-howard-absent-commitment-sources-say


This goes contrary to what they have been saying all along.

Something fishy here.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



> Already bothered, Orlando was angered even more by Dwight's comments after Tuesday's victory over Miami in which he said he wanted to stay with the Magic throughout the season. When asked about the risk the Magic would be taking by doing that, Howard said they should "roll the dice.''


Why would anyone want this prick on their team, really?

Such loyalty. Not. :|


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Fishy? No. Smith and his team have just finally convinced Devos they're being played for a fool..

That "roll the dice" comment rubbed a lot of people the wrong way...might have been the straw

At this point they might be spiteful and try to get anything from BK just so his hope of going to them untarnished is extinguished.


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

It will be VERY interesting to see what kind of package Orlando can get for him if he's not willing to committ anything to the team that's trading for him.

The Lakers should go for it. It would make them the favorites out West again and Lakers generally love being Lakers. He may choose not to leave after he gets a taste


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

I say no without an extension from Dwight.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

I dont get why the Nets are still bidding for him...They know he will sign with them come July so why not keep the assets they have and use them to build around Howard


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Deron is better for Dwight's career than Kobe. He's always wanted a guy who can get him the ball, so its no surprise why he's so desperately in love w NJ. I dont see him leaving LA if he lands there tho. Orlando just needs to take the 2 Brooks & the picks, and call it a day. 

Marshon could be dece with acpl years experience and Brook is not terrible. The Magic would still be watchable and they can say they didn't let him walk w/o compensation... whatever thats worth. 

It comes down to giving one last playoff run and doing a complete tank/rebuild if he bails, or bringing in acpl above average roll-players/starters/picks and trying to just build around them... Not sure which is the better way to rebuild, since i doubt we beat Miami in a series anytime soon, eithr way we slice it. It would be fun to watch Brooks though instead of Hedo the next 2 yrs.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

They don't "know" that, that's why. Preferential and knowing you're going somewhere are two different things


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



Blue said:


> Deron is better for Dwight's career than Kobe. He's always wanted a guy who can get him the ball, so its no surprise why he's so desperately in love w NJ. Orlando just needs to take the 2 Brooks & the picks, and call it a day.


Weren't you implying LA was better than BK just last night :drake:


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



FSH said:


> I dont get why the Nets are still bidding for him...They know he will sign with them come July so why not keep the assets they have and use them to build around Howard


Because his "list" is a negotiating ploy. The Nets know that if he winds up traded to a good situation he's probably taking the money and the shot at titles over being the face of a rebuild.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I say no without an extension from Dwight.


I say no anyway. Did you check out Bynum's numbers last night?

How about the last couple of weeks?

Oh, how about this whole season?


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



Bogg said:


> Because his "list" is a negotiating ploy. The Nets know that if he winds up traded to a good situation he's probably taking the money and the shot at titles over being the face of a rebuild.


How is

Deron
Brooks
Lopez
Howard

+2 first in a strong draft a rebuild?

Its already came out that he doesnt want the team he is going to to gut their franchise for him...That is the whole point to him staying in Orlando for the rest of the season and i think we all know he is talking about the Nets


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



FSH said:


> How is
> 
> Deron
> Brooks
> Lopez
> Howard
> 
> +2 first in a strong draft a rebuild?


That's what I'm saying. Anyone saying the Nets would have far to go after getting him are being foolish. It's a matter of rotation players at that point, and then yes you can expect to be title or bust.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



FSH said:


> How is
> 
> Deron
> Brooks
> Lopez
> Howard
> 
> +2 first in a strong draft a rebuild?
> 
> Its already came out that he doesnt want the team he is going to to gut their franchise for him...That is the whole point to him staying in Orlando for the rest of the season and i think we all know he is talking about the Nets


And if Orlando sends him to Dallas does he opt out and leave $30 million on the table for the privilege of playing two of the three best NBA teams every spring for the foreseeable future or re-up in Dallas where the Mavs would instantly become the iron of the conference? You make a deal because if you have him there's no chance he's leaving, whereas if he goes someplace else there's a risk that he never leaves.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



Dre said:


> Weren't you implying LA was better than BK just last night :drake:


lol in terms of winning LA is better yea, but in terms of Dwights individual career(getting those extra "touches"), NJ is better for him individually. This is of course if the trade rumours were accurate. 

Obviously if Dwight isn't traded and signs w NJ as a FA, i think NJ is most def better for him than LA if they manage to get Dwight AND keep all their assets.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



E.H. Munro said:


> And if Orlando sends him to Dallas does he opt out and leave $30 million on the table for the privilege of playing two of the three best NBA teams every spring for the foreseeable future or re-up in Dallas where the Mavs would instantly become the iron of the conference? You make a deal because if you have him there's no chance he's leaving, whereas if he goes someplace else there's a risk that he never leaves.


I guess if he goes to Dallas the Nets are screwed but if he doesnt and the Nets trade for him its gonna be what?

Deron
Gerald Green? Anthony Marrow?
DeShawn Stevenson?
Kris Humphries
Dwight Howard

Is that really a NBA finales team?


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

How much money do the Nets have left if they trade for Howard and not resign Humphries?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



FSH said:


> I guess if he goes to Dallas the Nets are screwed but if he doesnt and the Nets trade for him its gonna be what?
> 
> Deron
> Gerald Green? Anthony Marrow?
> DeShawn Stevenson?
> Kris Humphries
> Dwight Howard
> 
> Is that really a NBA finales team?


One, they don't need to re-sign Howard at all, as if he's traded he won't opt out (because to opt out he would need to leave money on the table). So they would have whatever they have after Williams and Humphrey are signed. And, at that point, all you're looking for is a Shane Battier type player at the SF spot. They don't need an all-star, they have their all stars. What they're looking for is defensive roleplayers that don't suck at offense.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



FSH said:


> I guess if he goes to Dallas the Nets are screwed but if he doesnt and the Nets trade for him its gonna be what?
> 
> Deron
> Gerald Green? Anthony Marrow?
> DeShawn Stevenson?
> Kris Humphries
> Dwight Howard
> 
> Is that really a NBA finales team?





FSH said:


> How much money do the Nets have left if they trade for Howard and not resign Humphries?


I think they are offering Humphries in the trade btw Lopez/Humph/Brooks/picks was listed in another thread (or maybe earlier in this one)


----------



## Ben

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



E.H. Munro said:


> One, they don't need to re-sign Howard at all, as if he's traded he won't opt out (because to opt out he would need to leave money on the table). So they would have whatever they have after Williams and Humphrey are signed. And, at that point, all you're looking for is a *Shane Battier* type player at the SF spot. They don't need an all-star, they have their all stars. What they're looking for is *defensive roleplayers that don't suck at offense*.


You named a defensive roleplayer that has sucked at offense all year. :laugh:

I agree with what you're saying though.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



FSH said:


> How is
> 
> Deron
> Brooks
> *Lopez*
> Howard
> 
> +2 first in a strong draft a rebuild?
> 
> Its already came out that he doesnt want the team he is going to to gut their franchise for him...That is the whole point to him staying in Orlando for the rest of the season and i think we all know he is talking about the Nets


who says they're keeping Lopez? not if they have to sign Howard for the max - in which case it's Williams, Howard and a bunch of newbs


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



FSH said:


> How is
> 
> Deron
> Brooks
> Lopez
> Howard
> 
> +2 first in a strong draft a rebuild?
> 
> Its already came out that he doesnt want the team he is going to to gut their franchise for him...That is the whole point to him staying in Orlando for the rest of the season and i think we all know he is talking about the Nets


Essentially, what EH said. The Nets are bad, if Howard joins them in free agency they'll be good, but they'll probably not be better than the team he was already on, depending on where he goes, and he'd be leaving a ton of money on the table. If they don't lock him up now then they're hoping to get lucky in free agency. Deron wouldn't have one foot out the door if he had any sort of promise that Dwight was coming.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



ßen said:


> You named a defensive roleplayer that has sucked at offense all year. :laugh:
> 
> I agree with what you're saying though.


Well, yeah, his shooting touch seems to have abandoned him this year. But normally Battier buries those wide open jumpers. I mean with Williams & Howard you can live with Courtney Lee at the SG spot.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



> “@KBergCBS: #Magic officials have been told that Dwight Howard informed teammates he won't opt out of contract in July, league source tell @CBSSports.”


...


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



> “@sam_amick: As first reported by WFTV in Orlando, sources confirm Dwight Howard told teammates & confidantes he will play final option year of contract”


...


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Are you kiddin' me????

p.s. If that's true is Deron going to play another full year in New Jersey and wait on Dwight? I'm skeptical.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

wow


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



> *“@KBergCBS: The #Magic would require written documentation that Howard will waive his early-termination option before deciding against trading him. The team has received no such documentation, which would need to be signed by Howard and his agent, Dan Fegan, source says.”


...


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

lol we dont want him pulling a Carlos Boozer on us


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

This will have huge implication for Deron Williams.


----------



## Bubbles

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Plot twist to this soap opera.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Deron must have told him he wanted to go to Dallas.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Wow....did not see that coming.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Can they just change the name of the franchise to the Flustercuck and be done with it?


----------



## Bubbles

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

He could be just telling Orlando this to throw another wrench into them trading him. If he were smart (which I have my doubts), he should just say that he will opt out no matter what if he is traded.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Unbelievable. 

Dwight just can't make up his mind.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

If this is true, and in no way am I confirming that it is (yet), are the Nets not rivaling the Blazers as the team with the most promising future only to crash and burn?

LMAO.

And it's worse because they didn't do it through injuries.

Remember when Hov signed up, and a little later (or before, I don't recall) Mikhail Prokorov came on board. Dude went on 60 Minutes for an interview, lol. People were all stoked with the upcoming free agent sweepstakes of Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Boozer/Amare. Nets struck out on every single front after expecting to get at least one big name free agent. People were overblowing the Jay-Z pull for Lebron, and even the Brooklyn move. It was like it was going to be a revitalized franchise. 

Then they finally pull Deron to Jersey, and with Dwight showing interest, it finally looks like they're pulling the franchise out of the mud, and then...this.

:laugh:

Again, not sure this rumor is true, but if it is...damn. Deron's leaving and they know it.

And Prokorov is about to ride the **** out to, and get into politics. Dude has already been hinting at it, and I'm sure he thought the Nets would have SOME semblance of a team by now.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Smh


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Dwight probably saw all the negative media coverage Melo got this mourning and was like **** that shit.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

The Nets are about to walk in to Brooklyn with absolutely nothing......lmao.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Wonder if we will see a Deron Williams for Pau Gasol trade.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

Written documentation that he won't opt out? Never heard of it

And telling teammates when you can tell Smith and Devos and put this to bed? Not buying this yet.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



> “@WojYahooNBA: Three Magic players tell Y! Sports (2 to @SpearsNBAYahoo) and one to me that Dwight Howard did not tell them he was opting in for next year.”


...


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

More



> Said one Magic player on Howard meeting: "Next year was not even mentioned in meeting...He told us he was "all-in" for this season."


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



> Alex Kennedy: Source says Dwight Howard met with Magic CEO Alex Martins and owner Rich DeVos this afternoon, informing them that he'll opt-in next season.





> Alex Kennedy: By the way, this came out of nowhere. Those close to Dwight Howard were STUNNED when he told them his decision this morning.


Who knows what to believe at this point.

All these twists and turns might mean he just stays put. How can you get on the phone and talk with all this other crap going on


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Floods said:


> Blame the players all you want, but its the retards in the GM chairs that keep enabling this behavior.


That's why I want them to let him walk for nothing. It will never happen, but man would I love to see it.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*

:lol:


----------



## Firefight

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

None of it makes sense... There is no more "reporting" anymore with reporters. They grab hold of any little piece of info and publish garbage as fact. It's a race to see who reports it first and they don't take time to actually find facts.

If Dwight is re-upping, then you better believe Magic brass want to see the signature on that contract. If not, they'll trade him for whatever they can get before letting him walk for nothing. I hope they trade with NJ and gut the hell out of that team so DWill and Howard can rot in Jersey together...


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I don't see how you can let this go on another year. 

I guess they can do what the Cavs couldn't do and save that cap space coming up in 2013 to become kind of an equal horse in the race...but how competitive can you stay doing that...would you alienate him by losing so much


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Dwight Howard Trade Demand Causes Orlando To Go All In*



Wade County said:


> It aint bad, but i'd take the Lakers deal over that.
> 
> Realistically, Humphries will get paid by somebody, so he's a rental.
> 
> Lopez is solid, but he's not a franchise big. You can't build a team around him.
> 
> Brooks looks promising, but he's no superstar.
> 
> The 2 1sts is nice, particularly if 1 of them is this years. That's a top 6 pick.
> 
> Still - Drew Bynum is an All-Star who is still in his prime. You can build a team around him, because he's a solid 2 way player. Either way you're in for a rebuild, there's no doubt about it. But Bynum allows them to stay competitive. Nets deal is the tank job. The Magic have probably won too many games to start tanking now though.


And he has severe knee concerns already. Everyone tends to leave that out when talking about Bynum. Once he gets his big contract, I'd be $1000 of my own money he starts having major time off due to injury on a regular basis.


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



> Chris Mannix: Magic continuing to explore Dwight Howard deals, league sources tell SI. No indication anything DH has said today changing that.


lol


----------



## MemphisX

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

:weezy:


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Orlando Will Trade Dwight If He Doesn't Commit To Staying At Least Next Y*



Bogg said:


> Because his "list" is a negotiating ploy. The Nets know that if he winds up traded to a good situation he's probably taking the money and the shot at titles over being the face of a rebuild.


I'm sorry Bogg, didn't you tell everyone Dwight was heading for Chicago?


----------



## FSH

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

ESPN just reports anything they see on Twitter...Its getting kinda sad over there


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



FSH said:


> ESPN just reports anything they see on Twitter...Its getting kinda sad over there


ESPN has always done that shit though. Then they'll just act like it didn't happen and they were the first to break the news once this is all said and done. 

I mean ****, they employ Stephen A Smith for ****s sake.


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I hope to god the Magic get rid of Dwight. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Hes just ****ing them around right now, its not like anyone questions if hes going to leave or not. Hes leaving. 

Makes me mad that I used to really like Dwight too. This is approaching "The Decision" type of douche baggery.


----------



## Floods

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



R-Star said:


> I mean ****, they employ Stephen A Smith for ****s sake.


Yeah but he's entertaining.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> That post is, in substance, identical to one that he did quote. And doesn't actually say what you were claiming that Bogg said earlier. It might be easier for you if you take off the beer goggles, they make it much tougher on the eyes when you're looking at a computer screen.


So your opinion is that Dwight wanted to go to Chicago, but decided to not put it on "his list" because Chicago secretly told people they didn't want to make any trades this season? Because that's Boggs opinion. Until he changes it again of course.


Funny. I'm not drunk, but you sure are senile. Pick a fight if you'd like though.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> So your opinion is that Dwight wanted to go to Chicago, but decided to not put it on "his list" because Chicago secretly told people they didn't want to make any trades this season? Because that's Boggs opinion. Until he changes it again of course.
> 
> 
> Funny. I'm not drunk, but you sure are senile. Pick a fight if you'd like though.


What I said was that Dwight's agent, or Otis Smith for that matter, wasn't trying to negotiate with Chicago because Chicago wasn't trying to acquire Dwight. Now, how that proves that I claimed Dwight was headed to Chicago is beyond me. If you want to keep replying when you're done with Mass Effect then, by all means, do. Please try to keep the argument on topic, though.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> So your opinion is that Dwight wanted to go to Chicago, but decided to not put it on "his list" because Chicago secretly told people they didn't want to make any trades this season? Because that's Boggs opinion. Until he changes it again of course.


No, and neither was it Bogg's. And you're acting like it's some vast secret that Chicago hasn't traded a core player since Elton Brand, which is what, a dozen years ago? They always hold on to guys until their trade value is so far gone that they need to pay someone to take the contract off their hands (see Hinrich, Kirk).


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> What I said was that Dwight's agent, or Otis Smith for that matter, wasn't trying to negotiate with Chicago because Chicago wasn't trying to acquire Dwight. Now, how that proves that I claimed Dwight was headed to Chicago is beyond me. If you want to keep replying when you're done with Mass Effect then, by all means, do. Please try to keep the argument on topic, though.


You ever decide to post that article saying Chicago doesn't want to trade for Dwight? While you're at it, post the one saying "Dwight's agent makes a list of only 3 teams..... but it would have been 4 if Chicago actually wanted him.... which they don't."

Keep reaching. And EH can keep running to your aid with the whole tired "HES DRUNK!" approach.

You argued with multiple posters that Dwight to Chicago was a viable option. You can try to state otherwise all you want, I don't really care.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Howard to Chicago is a viable option if the Bulls were to get into the bidding. But that would require Noah and the Charlotte first they hold, which is why they won't.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> You argued with multiple posters that Dwight to Chicago was a viable option. You can try to state otherwise all you want, I don't really care.


Which is far different than "Dwight is going to Chicago". I don't think that Dwight would take less money to leave a championship contender. You clearly do. Fine, neither one of us can prove our point. You simply won't, however, find me saying that Dwight was on his way to Chicago at any point, or for that matter that the two teams had engaged in serious discussion. And *that* was/is what I'm disputing.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> No, and neither was it Bogg's. And you're acting like it's some vast secret that Chicago hasn't traded a core player since Elton Brand, which is what, a dozen years ago? They always hold on to guys until their trade value is so far gone that they need to pay someone to take the contract off their hands (see Hinrich, Kirk).


Well actually, he was if you read his posts. Not so long ago I was arguing with Chicago Bulls fans that Tyrus Thomas was not actually a blue chip prospect and they should calm down on him. He was traded. Similar situation with Tyson Chandler (although I had to eat my words about him being a scrub). Also see Eddy Curry.

The Bulls are not afraid to make a trade. Nor is any team in the league dumb enough to say "Noah, picks and junk for Dwight Howard? No, you know what, tell Orlando we aren't interested in _ANY_ offer. We're the Chicago Bulls. We don't make trades.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Which is far different than "Dwight is going to Chicago". I don't think that Dwight would take less money to leave a championship contender. You clearly do. Fine, neither one of us can prove our point. You simply won't, however, find me saying that Dwight was on his way to Chicago at any point, or for that matter that the two teams had engaged in serious discussion. And *that* was/is what I'm disputing.


No, you just said Dwights agent went rogue and didn't inform Dwight of what he was doing, and that Chicago secretly let people know they aren't looking to make a deal, for anyone, no matter what the deal was.

Fair enough.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> No, you just said Dwights agent went rogue and didn't inform Dwight of what he was doing, and that Chicago secretly let people know they aren't looking to make a deal, for anyone, no matter what the deal was.
> 
> Fair enough.


Well, that's not the case at all, and it's a completely different point than what you claimed I said just a bit earlier, but it makes for a cute rant. It appears that you're the only one who took my posts that way so...........enjoy Mass Effect and the Pacers game?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> Well, that's not the case at all, and it's a completely different point than what you claimed I said just a bit earlier, but it makes for a cute rant. It appears that you're the only one who took my posts that way so...........enjoy Mass Effect and the Pacers game?


I wasn't the only one posting with you, or who took your posts that way. 

I don't feel like derailing a thread this big over something like this.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> I wasn't the only one posting with you, or who took your posts that way.
> 
> I don't feel like derailing a thread this big over something like this.


I was arguing with other people over whether or not Dwight would walk on Chicago if he was traded there. I even argued with other posters over whether or not Chicago was making serious efforts to acquire Dwight(I said they weren't). I even argued over whether or not Chicago would have popped up in rumors if they had been serious about landing him. I never, however, argued with other posters saying that he was definitely being traded there, or that Dwight's agent had gone against his wishes(I said nobody was negotiating with Chicago because Chicago wasn't looking to trade for him). 

I mean, honestly, if anyone else felt that I claimed Dwight was definitely going to Chicago, let me know.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Dre said:


> smh @ this thread title...


Here was the reason it was changed...



> *Adrian Wojnarowski* _@WojYahooNBA_
> After broader team meeting today, Dwight Howard had lunch with 3 teammates and told them he planned to opt-in for '12-13 season, source says
> 
> 
> *Adrian Wojnarowski* _‏@WojYahooNBA_
> Howard called Magic CEO while sitting at table and informed him of intentions, source says. Still, Magic waiting for him to sign papers now.
> 
> 
> *Adrian Wojnarowski* _@WojYahooNBA_
> Several sources already believe he's second-guessing that incredible change of heart, and Magic still on phones talking trades with teams.


Heard this on the radio a couple of hours ago, not sure why the back-and-forth took so long to get to Twitter.

Also, someone on Twitter came up with the term "Dwightmare." It's not original, but its totally applicable. :yes:


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

"Sources believe" he's second guessing....so what do they have body language experts hanging around him now....


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



Bogg said:


> It was actually Dwight saying he wouldn't mind going to there.
> 
> http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/30/sports/la-sp-newswire-20120131
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like a guy going out of his way to stay out of Chicago. He's also been quoted as saying that he'd take a look at Boston if they chased him in free agency. He's not making a huge deal out of weather if he can go to a good team.


One of many posts of you saying Dwight would like to go to Chicago. Jesus wants him there.


Again, I don't feel like derailing a thread with this many posts.


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I may be in the minority, but I laughed when I saw Dwightmare as the title.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Dre said:


> "Sources believe" he's second guessing....so what do they have body language experts hanging around him now....


Gotta love the English language.


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I wonder who these teams are though. If it was just the Nets they would just say that probably...would be a bigger F you than what Utah did if they rent him out somewhere he had no intentions of being. 

Could you imagine if they sent him to Houston :2worf:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

If this guy is not going to extend with anyone, I really don't see a team so desperate as to rent the clown for six weeks.

What's the point in that? Break up your entire team just for that?

Makes no sense at all.


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Ron said:


> If this guy is not going to extend with anyone, I really don't see a team so desperate as to rent the clown for six weeks.
> 
> What's the point in that? Break up your entire team just for that?
> 
> Makes no sense at all.


Yea. Tough to trade established starters and draft picks for a guy who at best will tell you "I don't know. Roll the dice and see if I'll stay"


----------



## King Joseus

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Woj twitter:



> Nevertheless, multiple league executives believe Magic's decision is now cemented that they'll trade Dwight Howard before Thursday deadline.


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Dre said:


> Don't be hyperbolic. I didn't "say poor Dwight it's the media's fault", I said "we can't put it all on him." Distinct difference.
> 
> I don't really understand the "I used to like him".."he's a douchebag" posts based on reports being made about him. How can he control that
> 
> Let's take an objective look at this. In this era there's just no way to have this optout situation over your head and not have it be a circus when you're an all-star. There's no way to take a stand without lying to someone at the end...there's no way to be silent and coy about it because then it's "he loves the attention and suspense".
> 
> There's not a solution as simple as something someone on a message board can type here.
> 
> The media is there, they will talk. Now Dwight could have probably done better about keeping stuff close to the vest and just being really boring and general with his quotes but the media would still have saturated us with speculation...so I'm not going to act like it's just all him until I see tweets and a special on ESPN.


Except the two options I posted prove the exact opposite. He could come out and say "I'm staying" or "I'm leaving". For you to ask how he has any control over this is asinine. 

Does Dwight have control over where hes going to play, or is ESPN deciding where Dwight goes?


----------



## Wade County

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Well, should be an interesting 24 hours.


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



R-Star said:


> Except the two options I posted prove the exact opposite. He could come out and say "I'm staying" or "I'm leaving". For you to ask how he has any control over this is asinine.
> 
> Does Dwight have control over where hes going to play, or is ESPN deciding where Dwight goes?


If he's not staying he'd be lying to his front office and if he's leaving why run the value down for what your team gets back. Why quit on your team inseason.

There's something the media could say about any option he takes.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I assume something will be in place and reported by late tonight...things have gone quiet for the most part as far as reportable action by any party...so they're on the phones as we speak, and they probably want to get it done sooner than later out of respect for the other GMs so the other dominoes can fall.


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



> After numerous reports earlier Wednesday indicating that Howard had agreed to waive his early termination option and lock himself into the final season of his current contract with the Magic, sources said that Howard and agent Dan Fegan clarified their position in the conference call with Magic CEO Alex Martins, owner Rich De Vos and other members of the De Vos' family.





> During the call, sources said, Howard told the Magic that staying in Orlando is his first choice. But he also made it clear that he was not prepared to relinquish the ETO in his contract that allows him to become a free agent. "It's unheard of for a player of Dwight's caliber to do so," one source close to the situation told ESPN.com.





> When asked why Howard told several teammates and members of the organization earlier in the day that he had indeed decided not to opt out of his contract, the source insisted that Howard "didn't fully understand the ramifications" of surrendering his ETO and did so largely because Magic officials warned him that he would be traded by Thursday's 3 p.m. trading deadline if he did not take that step





> During the call, sources said, Howard told the Magic that staying in Orlando is his first choice. But he also made it clear that he was not prepared to relinquish the ETO in his contract that allows him to become a free agent. "It's unheard of for a player of Dwight's caliber to do so," one source close to the situation told ESPN.com.


Sounds like someone wants to have their cake and eat it too. If you're going to opt out why do you want to stay...sounds scared to hurt someone's feelings


----------



## Bubbles

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Is anyone actually going to gut their team for a six week rental?


----------



## Pay Ton

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

If God wanted Dwight to relinquish his ETO, it would have been relinquished...supernaturally.


----------



## Maravilla

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Like I said.. if this process has proven anything... its that Dwight Howard is a flakey bitch. You aren't winning the title with him as your best player.


----------



## kbdullah

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

There's only one team where he wouldn't be the best player.


----------



## Blue

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

LA?


----------



## Maravilla

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



kbdullah said:


> There's only one team where he wouldn't be the best player.


:kanyeshrug:

looks like he is out of luck.


----------



## Kidd

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Am I the only one who's enjoying this?


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I keep trying to vote on the poll. Its angering me.


----------



## Bubbles

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Brian said:


> Am I the only one who's enjoying this?


I'm enjoying this because it has no effect on my team. :laugh:


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Prince said:


> I'm enjoying this because it has no effect on my team. :laugh:


I don't like name changes. Its like I don't even know who you are anymore.


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



R-Star said:


> I keep trying to vote on the poll. Its angering me.


I'm a failure....I made the poll thread, closed it then merged it. But I think because it was closed we can't vote in here :2ti:

If an admin knows how to fix that or remove the poll I'll do it again while we're waiting


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Prince said:


> I'm enjoying this because it has no effect on my team. :laugh:


If the Magic lose him for scraps and plunge down the standings it kind of helps your playoff hopes.

I gotta say I feel like this is a temporary lost a bet name change...I can't see you really going with this


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Dre said:


> I'm a failure....I made the poll thread, closed it then merged it. But I think because it was closed we can't vote in here :2ti:
> 
> If an admin knows how to fix that or remove the poll I'll do it again while we're waiting


Every few hours I keep going "Hey. I bet its fixed now." then I click and its like a smack in the face.


----------



## Bubbles

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



R-Star said:


> I don't like name changes. Its like I don't even know who you are anymore.


I'm the poster formerly known as Quite Frankly.


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I am kind of interested to see what the majority think is really going to happen. A lot of speculating about this or that but few people have really put their chips on any team yet...including Dwight :jr:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Yeah the Magic are using the Lakers to leverage more out of Jersey. LA won't trade for him without an extension unless were incredibly stupid.....I'm looking at you Jim.


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Pay Ton said:


> Actually, both reports sort of make sense if you think about it.
> 
> I don't think the Lakers are in the running, but if the Magic want to scare the Nets into bluffing a trade with the Lakers, it might work.
> 
> That way the Nets think that Dwight goes to L.A., and even though he said he won't resign, I'm sure they get paranoid that he likes La La Land a little more than he had anticipated, so the Nets sweeten the offer to get him now and don't hold out until the offseason.
> 
> It's actually a nice little move by the Magic, considering they've been backed into a corner with almost no negotiating power up until this point.
> 
> Got to give credit where it's due.


Yeah that may be why ESPN is reporting BK and some offbrand ass Orlando site is talking about the Lakers


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Pay Ton said:


> Actually, both reports sort of make sense if you think about it.
> 
> I don't think the Lakers are in the running, but if the Magic want to scare the Nets into bluffing a trade with the Lakers, it might work.
> 
> That way the Nets think that Dwight goes to L.A., and even though he said he won't resign, I'm sure they get paranoid that he likes La La Land a little more than he had anticipated, so the Nets sweeten the offer to get him now and don't hold out until the offseason.
> 
> It's actually a nice little move by the Magic, considering they've been backed into a corner with almost no negotiating power up until this point.
> 
> Got to give credit where it's due.


Unless New Jersey is very naive, I don't think they are falling for it...it became widely known earlier today that the Lakers had pulled out of the running when DwightMare refused to sign an extension.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Dre said:


> Yeah he'll resign in BK...that's where he's trying to go lol
> 
> At this point it's all about whether Kupchak believes him when he says he's opting out if it's not BK. I think they want to call him on his bluff because of the financial losses he'd take if he did


To me, its incredible that he is even thinking of leaving Orlando, from a financial point of view.

He's leaving $30 million on the table in a state that doesn't have an income tax, to go to a state that has a particularly high income tax...makes no sense in the pocketbook whatsoever.

But I stopped trying to figure out what is going on in the moron's mind a long time ago.


----------



## ATLien

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

“If you want to scrutinize me for taking care of Dwight, that’s fine.” - Dwight Howard


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> And it's called Molson Gold.


Good admin work. Everyone respects the hard work and great posting you put in around here. That's why you were the only mod/admin to not get into the HOF this time around.

Please though, feel free to try and bait me some more old man.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

.
.
.


----------



## Bubbles

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

:laugh:


----------



## MojoPin

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Cris said:


> Take it with a grain of salt.


Id do it just to get rid of Luke LOL


----------



## Luke

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Hasn't EH been in the hall for years? Granted it doesn't really mean anything.

It's been my birthday for 55 minutes, not goona lie, getting Dwight (with and extension) would be a pretty sweet present.

Won't be bitter if it doesn't happen though, Bynum has turned into a stud right before our eyes. Eat your heart out Munro.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Ron said:


> Yes extension...but God-loving hypocrite refuses to sign an extension...anywhere, as far as I know.
> 
> Maybe he will in New Jersey, but I don't know if he has ever indicated that. He has really hamstrung the Magic...his refusal to sign an extension with the Lakers basically killed any deal there.


What I'm getting at is that he won't sign an extension at all as extend & trades can't be for any more money than the acquiring team could sign a player for outright. To get full value he needs to go to free agency and then re-sign.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



R-Star said:


> Good admin work. Everyone respects the hard work and great posting you put in around here. That's why you were the only mod/admin to not get into the HOF this time around.


 I don't need internet forum awards to affirm my own valuation. I'll leave that sort of thing for others. I actually prefer to be disliked. It's more fun.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard: Trade Request Still Stands, But Staying in Orlando a "Big Possibil*



E.H. Munro said:


> I don't need internet forum awards to affirm my own valuation. I'll leave that sort of thing for others. I actually prefer to be disliked. It's more fun.


That's where we differ. I live and die by the perception people have of me on here. It's why I try so hard.


----------



## Pay Ton

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Wardo said:


> “If you want to scrutinize me for taking care of Dwight, that’s fine.” - Dwight Howard


Eerily similar to the "I just worry about Jerome" quote by Jerome James.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



> “@Lakerholicz: Lakers "front runners" for Dwight Howard - Per Click Orlando: › Pingalore has also learned that the Magic... http://t.co/3cYPuP4b”





> “@Lakerholicz: Click Orlando say the deal Magic are considering: Howard/Duhon/Q-Rich for Bynum/Blake/Walton/Ebanks. http://t.co/faDmkEGI”


If we trade Bynum without an extension from Dwight in gonna murder a ****ing unicorn....


----------



## ATLien

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Pay Ton said:


> Eerily similar to the "I just worry about Jerome" quote by Jerome James.


Nobody calls Wardo a liar.


----------



## Luke

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Change your name back.

I miss Atlien.


----------



## Pay Ton

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Uardo said:


> Nobody calls Uardo a liar.


...


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

WTF is a Wardo

and yes, this time I look forward to the lecture and enlightenment about who he is


----------



## ATLien

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Wardo is Pay Ton. I'm just paying homage to a hall of famer.


----------



## Wade County

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*










FOH Dwight you sack of shit.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Omg. Whatever. Make up your damn mind.


----------



## R-Star

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I tweeted Dwight a few hours ago saying he was more of an attention whore than Lebron and ended by calling him a piece of shit. 

I'm glad it seems I talked some sense into him.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

.
.
.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



R-Star said:


> I tweeted Dwight a few hours ago saying he was more of an attention whore than Lebron and ended by calling him a piece of shit.
> 
> I'm glad it seems I talked some sense into him.


:laugh:


----------



## Laker Freak

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



R-Star said:


> I tweeted Dwight a few hours ago saying he was more of an attention whore than Lebron and ended by calling him a piece of shit.
> 
> I'm glad it seems I talked some sense into him.


So now you're intimidating 7 foot millionaires over twitter and it's working???


----------



## kbdullah

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



R-Star said:


> I tweeted Dwight a few hours ago saying he was more of an attention whore than Lebron and ended by calling him a piece of shit.
> 
> I'm glad it seems I talked some sense into him.


He was probably drunk dialed and that changed his mind.


----------



## Pay Ton

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



R-Star said:


> I tweeted Dwight a few hours ago saying he was more of an attention whore than Lebron and ended by calling him a piece of shit.
> 
> I'm glad it seems I talked some sense into him.


Do me a favor and tweet Boozer.

Tell him to pick up the slack.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*


----------



## Marcus13

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Dwight got wind of what was happening to his public image and is now going to try to blame it on his agent and probably fire him to save face


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


>


Disturbing.

Very disturbing.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Marcus13 said:


> Dwight got wind of what was happening to his public image and is now going to try to blame it on his agent and probably fire him to save face


Too late, we have seen this film before.

DwightMare is a ****ing *MORON*.


----------



## Pay Ton

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

So...

Quote:


> AlexKennedyNBA: Dwight has just informed Magic brass the he DOES indeed want to be traded...to the Mavs. You can't make this stuff up. http://t.co/UM0tWZak


Wow.
























































































Nah, I'm ****ing. Fake quote.


----------



## Basel

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

How many twists and turns could this story possibly take? Unbelievable.

And if he does sign and stay another year, does that just mean he's delaying the inevitable and leaving after next season?


----------



## seifer0406

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

This thread has a chance to break the post record if Dwight stays for another year.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Basel said:


> How many twists and turns could this story possibly take? Unbelievable.
> 
> And if he does sign and stay another year, does that just mean he's delaying the inevitable and leaving after next season?


At this point, if I am the Magic, I don't want to go through this circus again next February.

I would move him anyway, anywhere...just get rid of the cancer.


----------



## seifer0406

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Ron said:


> At this point, if I am the Magic, I don't want to go through this circus again next February.
> 
> I would move him anyway, anywhere...just get rid of the cancer.


I'd trade him in the offseason if he opts in after the trade deadline. A full year rental vs. a half year rental means Orlando will get more in return.


----------



## Kidd

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Pay Ton said:


> So...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I'm ****ing. Fake quote.


hey man... **** you


----------



## Pay Ton

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

:kanyeshrug:


----------



## Dre

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Pay Ton almost shut the forum down with that one :2ti::2ti::2ti:


----------



## Basel

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

:laugh:

Pay Ton had me fooled for a second. If he didn't say he was ****ing with us, I was going to believe it. :whatever: at trusting Pay Ton as a source.


----------



## kbdullah

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

At first I was :dirk: 

then I was :jet:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



> “@MisterRudolph: Howard "I have gotten some bad advice. I apologize for this circus I have caused to the fans of our city. They didn't deserve none of this."”


...


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



> “@MisterRudolph: Howard "I have gotten some bad advice. I apologize for this circus I have caused to the fans of our city. They didn't deserve none of this."”


...

He should have thought of that, say...four months ago?

What a moron.


----------



## Basel

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

If he does indeed end up staying with the Magic, this will all be water under the bridge. The fans will still love him. He'll still be one of the top vote-getters for the All-Star game, etc.


----------



## jayk009

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

dwight howard is annoying...


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



> “@MisterRudolph: Howard "I have gotten some bad advice. I apologize for this circus I have caused to the fans of our city. They didn't deserve none of this."”


...

Is this guy for real? I mean, he's from RealGM for Chrissake!

Is Howard telling him all this now? At past 3 a.m. in the EST? I don't think I believe any of this shit-tweeking...er, I mean tweeting by this ****ing guy.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I sent him this, let's see how he responds:



> @MisterRudolph Prove that you interviewed him...I find it hard to believe, its past 3 a.m. over there; no one else is retweeting this.


----------



## Basel

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Marc Spears from Yahoo just re-tweeted a link to RealGM. Maybe it's legit?


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Basel said:


> Marc Spears from Yahoo just re-tweeted a link to RealGM. Maybe it's legit?


Not unless DwightMare has insomnia and has an insatiable desire to talk to this guy...it just doesn't make much sense to me at all.


----------



## Wade County

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

At this point, I dont trust a word from anybody until it's official that he either a) re-signed, or b) got traded.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

This dude's tweets (in reverse order) since I sent him my challenge (evidently, I am not the only one):



> Jarrod N Rudolph ‏ @MisterRudolph
> 
> Again, I apologize for the delay. The interview will be up in a moment. We're working to get it up now. Thanks for your patience.
> 2m Jarrod N Rudolph Jarrod N Rudolph ‏ @MisterRudolph
> 
> Let me remind fans of the Nets that I won't be fighting with you now or ever. Not interested.
> 6m Jarrod N Rudolph Jarrod N Rudolph ‏ @MisterRudolph
> 
> I know him professionally and personally. I will vouch for his character. I believe he will sign tomorrow.
> 8m Jarrod N Rudolph Jarrod N Rudolph ‏ @MisterRudolph
> 
> He loves Orlando and regrets the way this all has played out. This was never his intention.
> 10m Jarrod N Rudolph Jarrod N Rudolph ‏ @MisterRudolph
> 
> I can say Howard was very remorseful and sounded genuine when we spoke. I don't expect him to have another change of heart.
> 12m Jarrod N Rudolph Jarrod N Rudolph ‏ @MisterRudolph
> 
> Interview will be posted momentarily. Sorry for the delay.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

These reports are coming from RealGM and Hoopsworld and we already know they lack credibility...even a broken clock is right twice a day, so let's see if what they threw up against the wall sticks.

P.S. I don't believe this guy really interviewed Howard. He apparently refuses to "prove" he actually interviewed him.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



> *Sam Amick* _@sam_amick_
> Source who spoke w/ Dwight Howard after interview w/ @MisterRudolph was told by him that he's committing thru '12-13 & will sign ETO waiver


.
.
.
In the interest of fairness...


----------



## Basel

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219758/Dwight_Howard_Admits_Mistakes_Plans_To_Opt_In


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



Basel said:


> http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219758/Dwight_Howard_Admits_Mistakes_Plans_To_Opt_In


Yeah, I didn't post it because the author won't confirm to us that he actually talked to Howard.

That third party source for Sam Amick has me wondering, though.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

And here's the other side...completely contradicting Mr. Rudolph's supposed interview:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7688201/orlando-magic-dwight-howard-not-give-option-season-end



> In a Wednesday night conference call with team officials before Orlando's game in San Antonio, after indications to the contrary earlier in the day, Howard firmly told the Magic he is not prepared to surrender the option in his contract that allows him to become a free agent at season's end.
> 
> Magic spokesman George Galante confirmed the conference call to the Associated Press on Wednesday night after ESPN.com, citing sources with knowledge of the call, reported that Howard and agent Dan Fegan clarified their position with Magic CEO Alex Martins, owner Rich DeVos and other members of the DeVos family on the line.


Updated at 3:51 a.m. EST.


----------



## 29380

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Chris Broussard is confirming RealGM's report on ESPN Radio.


----------



## GNG

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> We should play a drinking game. Shot for every time Dwight changes his mind.


Alcohol poisoning by 2 p.m.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7...ndo-magic-tells-team-stay-2012-13-sources-say



> But after the game in San Antonio, Howard again reversed his decision and told Magic officials he wanted to stay, sources said. After mulling it over on the club's post-game flight from San Antonio to Orlando, Howard told the Magic he was ready to sign the waiver right then and there, at about 3 a.m. ET.
> 
> The Magic, according to sources, told Howard to continue thinking about his decision and made plans to meet with him and have him sign the waiver early Thursday morning.
> 
> "They did not want him to sign the paper at 3 a.m.," one source said. "They wanted him to sleep on it and come back with a clear head in the morning."
> 
> Knowing Howard's penchant for changing his mind, one source close to Howard said the Magic should have reacted differently.
> 
> "They should have had him sign it," the person said.


:yes:


----------



## Ron

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

I have to report this since the guy (appears to be) right about him staying (but with DwightMare, you never know):



> *Jarrod N Rudolph* _@MisterRudolph_
> I'm hearing Dwight will sign around 12:30 today. Get ready to go crazy at tomorrow's game. It's should be a mad house.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



seifer0406 said:


> This thread has a chance to break the post record if Dwight stays for another year.


You should change your settings, I'm still on the first page.



> “@MisterRudolph: Howard "I have gotten some bad advice. I apologize for this circus I have caused to the fans of our city. They didn't deserve none of this."”


Wait, so he's saying they _did_ deserve this? :bsmile:


----------



## Ron

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



E.H. Munro said:


> Wait, so he's saying they _did_ deserve this? :bsmile:


Yeah, I caught that too, but didn't comment on it...I had already called him a moron, so the use of a double-negative is totally within concert of moron-status.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

they deserved all of it


----------



## FSH

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

watch him have another change of heart at 3:10 while they are sitting at the table about to sign the ETO


----------



## Dre

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Real after school special here


----------



## Bogg

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



FSH said:


> watch him have another change of heart at 3:10 while they are sitting at the table about to sign the ETO


That's exactly why they're doing it at 12:30. I guarantee you Orlando has two or three trades lined up and if nothing's signed by 1:30-2:00ish they pull the trigger on their favorite. What's really interesting is what the Nets do with Deron if Dwight waives his ETO. That may be where you see Rondo dealt.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Broussard said he got a text from Dwight saying he has in fact opted in.


----------



## 29380

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



> Dwight Howard just texted me that he has signed the waiver of his Early Termination Option


...


----------



## Kidd

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

smh


----------



## FSH

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Broussard said he got a text from Dwight saying he has in fact opted in.


god i feel bad for the Nets...They better hope they land the #1 and another top 5 pick to get Anthony Davis and MKG


----------



## Ron

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



FSH said:


> god i feel bad for the Nets...They better hope they land the #1 and another top 5 pick to get Anthony Davis and MKG


Nets are done. D-Will is as good as a Mav in the off-season.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Woj says the Nets are trying to acquire Gerald Wallace.


----------



## Dre

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*

Deron to Dallas :yep:

New Jersey might as well hit the reset button


----------



## FSH

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: Howard To Meet With Orlando Ownership And Opt-In At 12:30 EST*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Woj says the Nets are trying to acquire Gerald Wallace.


If they give up 1 of their picks for Gerald Wallace they are f'n retarded...If they dont then they should do it


----------



## FSH

*Re: CONFIRMED: Several News Sources Reporting Howard Has Signed The ETO*

Magic announce a press conference at 1est


----------



## Ron

*Re: CONFIRMED: Several News Sources Reporting Howard Has Signed The ETO*



> *Josh Robbins* _@JoshuaBRobbins_
> D12's manager, Kevin Samples, tells @OrlandoSentinel that Dwight has indeed waived his ETO.


As for confirmation.


----------



## Floods

*Re: CONFIRMED: Several News Sources Reporting Howard Has Signed The ETO*

And I thought I'd be waking up to actual news.


----------



## FSH

*Re: CONFIRMED: Several News Sources Reporting Howard Has Signed The ETO*

Doesnt this mean though that we are pretty much gonna go through the same thing during next years trade deadline?


----------



## Basel

*Re: CONFIRMED: Several News Sources Reporting Howard Has Signed The ETO*



> Dwight Howard officially signs the ETO waiver and will stay in Orlando reports Chris Broussard.


@ESPNChrisPalmer


----------



## Ron

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Wade is a ****ing coward.


----------



## Blue

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

But Wade is the good guy. Dwight is the douche.


----------



## Ron

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Blue said:


> But Wade is the good guy. Dwight is the douche.


I don't care much for DwightMare's antics the past four months or so, but Wade has never really been "a good guy."


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Blue said:


> But Wade is the good guy. Dwight is the douche.


Nah, don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Dwight.

Dwight's a ****ing moron.

But Wade's a pussy.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Whatever. In the end Dwight still didn't really make a decision. If he was so committed to Orlando, he would have opted out and signed a long term contract. That would have made much more financial sense. This guy is such a pussy. It's amazing how afraid he is of how other people view him.

I get the feeling that this fiasco is going to happen all over again next year if the Magic aren't winning, although after next season the Magic will have some cap space so they might be able to lure a player there.


----------



## Maravilla

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*











smh please.

The only thing that this proves is he just comes out looking like more of a bitch for the fiasco that has happened over the last year and for the sequel that will happen next season. Only difference is that Dwight is even more of a pussy and lacks conviction and the balls to stand by ANYTHING that he has said.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Man y'all can kick rocks. Wade is right...there is no loyalty. I don't care what you say or what 38 year old is allowed to sit at the end of your bench.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Blue said:


> But Wade is the good guy. Dwight is the douche.


You're what? Throwing a temper tantrum now?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> Man y'all can kick rocks. Wade is right...there is no loyalty. *I don't care what you say or what 38 year old is allowed to sit at the end of your bench.*


So.... you're against anyone using facts compared to you just stating your opinion?


Makes sense.

There's plenty of loyalty in the league.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Nah.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> Nah.


Thanks for the insightful reply. I can see I have been defeated.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

:yep:


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

LMAO...Dwight can now go into completing his insignificant Patrick Ewing career redo. Now he has nobody to blame but himself. Orlando has proven it is a crap organization that even when gifted star after star after star, it will never build anything significant.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

But he'll feel better inside because he was loyal


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

So we went from Orlando spending the next 48 hours looking for help for Dwight to Orlando not doing anything and Dwight stays. Unbelievable.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

and then the nets panic and portland goes kaboom!


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

for Orlando fans


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> Man y'all can kick rocks. Wade is right...there is no loyalty. I don't care what you say or what 38 year old is allowed to sit at the end of your bench.


You seem to be misunderstanding that Wade can be correct but still come of as a bitch.

Plus, you're a bit more eleqouent than Wade was.

"Hahahahaha loyalty".

It's not only a cowardly, cryptic statement, that Wade can later regress on and state that he "meant" something else (you know...the way Wade clowned Nowitzki in the Finals and then said, "No, I was REALLY coughing, and with the camera in front of us, I knew you guys were going to blow it up, so I started to fake it" because we all know Wade is such an intellect and he was trying to satirize media culture, smart guy he is), but it's not spoken with any sort of point. Just a general aura of douchebaggery and mockery so he can later state, "No you guys didn't understand, I didn't mean it like that". It's a grade school comment from grade school intellect and it goes with the general trend I've gathered from Wade since Lebron has joined him.

You know, you guys are funny. For all the shit you give Garnett about his tough guy antics, Wade isn't any different. Garnett goes to Boston, starts to win, and then acts like a punk. Lebron and Bosh go to Miami, and Wade acts like a punk, except his style isn't confrontational like Garnett's. Say all you want about Garnett, but he does his punk shit on the court. Wade does his in the media, but it's still what I like to refer to as..."bitchassness". 

But yes...Wade was right. Dwight isn't loyal. My bad. That makes it okay.

Garnett was right, too, when he said Charlie looked like a cancer patient. He does.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Not that serious but ok


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> Not that serious but ok


Not an issue of gravity, just an issue of bitchassness.

If he's going to Tweet with the same general maturity as my nephew, I'm going to call it out.

It's not as serious as Garnett's Charlie comments, but the tendencies between both players are comparable.

Peas in a bitch ass pod.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Kind of reminds me when MJ kept bad mouthing Ewing to the media for a year or so. That shit was hilarious.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

lol @ someone voting Magic today


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



R-Star said:


> Kind of reminds me when MJ kept bad mouthing Ewing to the media for a year or so. That shit was hilarious.


I don't know if that was directed at me because I'm a Bulls fan, but I've always conceded that dude is a ****ing asshole and I don't really care for him as a person.


----------



## Blue

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Whatever. In the end Dwight still didn't really make a decision. If he was so committed to Orlando, he would have opted out and signed a long term contract. That would have made much more financial sense. This guy is such a pussy. It's amazing how afraid he is of how other people view him.
> 
> I get the feeling that this fiasco is going to happen all over again next year if the Magic aren't winning, although after next season the Magic will have some cap space so they might be able to lure a player there.


But Magic weren't going to risk letting him opt out, so he didn't have that option... It's better for the Magic that he just opts-in rather than sign an extension anyway, so he is doing Orlando a massive favor. Magic get one more year to woo him. 

Magic will either not be good enough to win and will need to add a big FA or 2 in 2013, or he will be traded by or leave in 2013 anyway. 

Either way, Magic should be in better position to get him help here with his cap off the books that summer of 2013, rather than with him already extended. And if he does choose to leave Orlando that summer, you cant say he didn't give us a chance. 



R-Star said:


> You're what? Throwing a temper tantrum now?


I just dont understand your reasoning. A player demands a trade or leaves a city so he is a bad guy...  I dont see the problem with a player who's just trying to win


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Pay Ton said:


> I don't know if that was directed at me because I'm a Bulls fan, but I've always conceded that dude is a ****ing asshole and I don't really care for him as a person.


Nah bro, just remembering how hilarious those MJ Ewing back and forths of the mid 90's were. Until Barkley stuck his nose in and then it got lame pretty quick.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> lol @ someone voting Magic today


Jamel Irief.

Just putting his name out there so people know who it was, lol.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

The archivist tryna cheat :jr:


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

seifer are you ever going to get tired of bashing the Magic and baiting the few fans we have on this site and not getting a response?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



hobojoe said:


> seifer are you ever going to get tired of bashing the Magic and baiting the few fans we have on this site and not getting a response?


It's not only Magic fans who ignore seifer.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



R-Star said:


> It's not only Magic fans who ignore seifer.


It's pretty sad to watch. At least this thread is about the Magic/Howard, he's been trying in threads all over the NBA forum.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



hobojoe said:


> seifer are you ever going to get tired of bashing the Magic and baiting the few fans we have on this site and not getting a response?


Yeah I'm not just tired, I'm exhausted. How this Dwight saga unfolded really shook me. I was all looking forward to him leaving this July and leaving Orlando with nothing and now that wish is ruined.

I have to give props to Dwight though. For better or worse he's not the same as other superstars. In time people will forget the indecision and remember that he spent the best years of his career playing for the team that drafted him, eventhough they have no chance of winning a championship.

Forget about Lou Gehrig, today, Otis Smith is the luckiest man on the face of the earth. The guy went from a sure firing to possibly rebuilding the team with Dwight on it in 2013. I do have a feeling that Otis will do something Otis-like this offseason by trading expiring contracts for overpaid players and not just letting those contracts run out and hope for a major FA signing in 2013. I guess that's something to look forward to for some of us.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Lou Gehrig died from a very painful and fatal disease that was named after him. why was he lucky again?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Hyperion said:


> Lou Gehrig died from a very painful and fatal disease that was named after him. why was he lucky again?


You read his whole post? I read like the first 8 words and thought "**** this."

You're crazy man. I love you, but you're crazy man.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Hyperion said:


> Lou Gehrig died from a very painful and fatal disease that was named after him. why was he lucky again?


Never heard his speech?


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Pay Ton said:


> You seem to be misunderstanding that Wade can be correct but still come of as a bitch.
> 
> Plus, you're a bit more eleqouent than Wade was.
> 
> "Hahahahaha loyalty".
> 
> It's not only a cowardly, cryptic statement, that Wade can later regress on and state that he "meant" something else (you know...the way Wade clowned Nowitzki in the Finals and then said, "No, I was REALLY coughing, and with the camera in front of us, I knew you guys were going to blow it up, so I started to fake it" because we all know Wade is such an intellect and he was trying to satirize media culture, smart guy he is), but it's not spoken with any sort of point. Just a general aura of douchebaggery and mockery so he can later state, "No you guys didn't understand, I didn't mean it like that". It's a grade school comment from grade school intellect and it goes with the general trend I've gathered from Wade since Lebron has joined him.
> 
> You know, you guys are funny. For all the shit you give Garnett about his tough guy antics, Wade isn't any different. Garnett goes to Boston, starts to win, and then acts like a punk. Lebron and Bosh go to Miami, and Wade acts like a punk, except his style isn't confrontational like Garnett's. Say all you want about Garnett, but he does his punk shit on the court. Wade does his in the media, but it's still what I like to refer to as..."bitchassness".
> 
> But yes...Wade was right. Dwight isn't loyal. My bad. That makes it okay.
> 
> Garnett was right, too, when he said Charlie looked like a cancer patient. He does.


Could not have been said any better.


----------



## 29380

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Orlando is so lucky that they got Dwight to commit to them they should have enough cap space in the summer of 2013 to possible get Chris Paul or Deron Williams and Josh Smith.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



MemphisX said:


> LMAO...Dwight can now go into completing his insignificant Patrick Ewing career redo. Now he has nobody to blame but himself. Orlando has proven it is a crap organization that even when gifted star after star after star, it will never build anything significant.





Dre said:


> But he'll feel better inside because he was loyal












"Dirk is an idiot for not leaving Dallas."


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Pay Ton said:


> Jamel Irief.
> 
> Just putting his name out there so people know who it was, lol.


I'm going to throw it in your face when I am right again!

BTW you noticed Ron and Basel bit my style and are now rocking Fish avatars? First album covers, than the Django thing, now this. Trendsetter!


----------



## M.V.W.

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Jamel Irief said:


> "Dirk is an idiot for not leaving Dallas."


Cuban put the right team around Dirk, though. Will Magic be able to do the same?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

I don't think anyone ever claimed that Dirk could've lead another team to a championship. Most people thought that Dirk would've been better as a 2nd best player on a championship team. Dirk got better and proved everyone wrong.

Dwight on the other hand should be able to be the best player on a championship team right now.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

A. The Mavericks had a great team around him and Cuban changed the cast every other year
.....Has Otis done the same?

B. It was his best option when he hit free agency 2 years ago
....Was it Dwight's?

C. That's like...one example...how many other guys didn't do it with the team they stuck with
....A lot. Remains to be seen what they could put around him but I'm of the mind that he's just delaying the inevitable and rebuilding his goodwill before he exits the "right" way.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> A. The Mavericks had a great team around him and Cuban changed the cast every other year
> .....Has Otis done the same?
> 
> B. It was his best option when he hit free agency 2 years ago
> ....Was it Dwight's?
> 
> C. That's like...one example...how many other guys didn't do it with the team they stuck with
> ....A lot. Remains to be seen what they could put around him but I'm of the mind that he's just delaying the inevitable and rebuilding his goodwill before he exits the "right" way.


A) never thought changing the cast every year benefits a team. Did letting Nash walk and signing LaFrentz and Dampier to huge deals help or hurt? Revionist history. Back then everyone would call Dirk a fool for sticking with a team tying up capspace for stiffs.

B) I don't remember who had cap room back then so I'll trust you.

C) How many never won while jumping teams all the time? Barkley? Nique? Nash? Kidd? (was no longer a star when he won)


----------



## e-monk

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Paul Pierce?


----------



## Blue

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

But for every Paul Pierce, there's a KG and Ray Allen. For every Kobe, there's a Shaq and Pau. Dirk had Kidd. San Antonio is the only team i can think of this decade that built there title teams from scratch through the draft. OKC has a chance to do it, but can u really call a franchise loyal when they abandoned their city?


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Blue said:


> But for every Paul Pierce, there's a KG and Ray Allen. For every Kobe, there's a Shaq and Pau. Dirk had Kidd. San Antonio is the only team i can think of this decade that built there title teams from scratch through the draft. OKC has a chance to do it, but can u really call a franchise loyal when they abandoned their city?


I think the bigger point is people are saying there's nothing wrong with staying with one franchise because it's not guaranteed that you can't win if you do so.

Memphis X's rather condescending post made it out to be career Kryptonite for Dwight (even though he can easily opt out after next season) like he has some sort of blueprint or fixture on how leaving your situation can lead to titles, but the truth is there is no blueprint. If you stay with your team, maybe you catch a little luck in drafts or through trades, maybe there's just enough competency with your front office as to where you can win a title (let's not forget that Mitch Kupchack was considered a moron and nicknamed "CutShaq" until he lucked into Pau Gasol). Same goes for if you leave your team. Maybe your fortunate enough to go to a situation like Boston, where all the stars have aligned and you join a superteam, or maybe you leave your team only to get stuck in playoff limbo somewhere else like Nash.

There's really not a set pattern that say, "Oh, Player X will win more titles because he left his team, while Player Y didn't leave his team, therefore he's stupid, not loyal." It's about the surrounding circumstances, and anybody who believes different is a fool.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

or you force a trade to the knicks


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Blue said:


> But for every Paul Pierce, there's a KG and Ray Allen. For every Kobe, there's a Shaq and Pau. Dirk had Kidd. San Antonio is the only team i can think of this decade that built there title teams from scratch through the draft. OKC has a chance to do it, but can u really call a franchise loyal when they abandoned their city?


Basically the point is winning a championship is very hard... and giving up on a franchise after 5-6 years is no sure thing.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Jamel Irief said:


> Basically the point is winning a championship is very hard... and giving up on a franchise after 5-6 years is no sure thing.


Crazy. I never knew when you and me became best friends who finish each other sentences.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Pay Ton said:


> You seem to be misunderstanding that Wade can be correct but still come of as a bitch.
> 
> Plus, you're a bit more eleqouent than Wade was.
> 
> "Hahahahaha loyalty".
> 
> It's not only a cowardly, cryptic statement, that Wade can later regress on and state that he "meant" something else (you know...the way Wade clowned Nowitzki in the Finals and then said, "No, I was REALLY coughing, and with the camera in front of us, I knew you guys were going to blow it up, so I started to fake it" because we all know Wade is such an intellect and he was trying to satirize media culture, smart guy he is), but it's not spoken with any sort of point. Just a general aura of douchebaggery and mockery so he can later state, "No you guys didn't understand, I didn't mean it like that". It's a grade school comment from grade school intellect and it goes with the general trend I've gathered from Wade since Lebron has joined him.
> 
> You know, you guys are funny. For all the shit you give Garnett about his tough guy antics, Wade isn't any different. Garnett goes to Boston, starts to win, and then acts like a punk. Lebron and Bosh go to Miami, and Wade acts like a punk, except his style isn't confrontational like Garnett's. Say all you want about Garnett, but he does his punk shit on the court. Wade does his in the media, but it's still what I like to refer to as..."bitchassness".
> 
> But yes...Wade was right. Dwight isn't loyal. My bad. That makes it okay.
> 
> Garnett was right, too, when he said Charlie looked like a cancer patient. He does.


Wrong again jerkface. Wade owned up to it.



Wade said:


> Wade said Friday that he wasn't referring to any one situation or person.


Guy is such a pathetic little bitch. Any single time someone calls him on something its "Nope. Not what I meant." Pathetic.


----------



## Diable

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Howard deserves to be mocked. This entire dramedy has made him look incredibly bad. All of you guys hate on Lebron for every nuance of everything he did, but he didn't do anything while he was under contract in Cleveland. I don't think he said one word beyond pat boring responses. The fact that Howard isn't getting more hate for this entire juvenile display leads one to believe that no one really believes he is that good of a player. Everyone else who is any good gets a level of hatred commensurate with just how good he is.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

This entire ordeal has made me respect Dwight a lot less as a person, though he'll always be incredible to watch. I liked the guy too, now he's just another spoiled diva personality in my mind. That or there's still some residual high school immaturity left over.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



R-Star said:


> Wrong again jerkface. Wade owned up to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Guy is such a pathetic little bitch. Any single time someone calls him on something its "Nope. Not what I meant." Pathetic.


LOL.

Came sooner than I thought.

He'll have another one of these moments by season's end, no doubt.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



R-Star said:


> Crazy. I never knew when you and me became best friends who finish each other sentences.


On the count of three, name your favorite dinosaur. Don't even think about it. Just name it. Ready? One, two, three.

Velociraptor? Me too!

Favorite non-pornographic magazine to masturbate to.

Good Housekeeping. Me too!

If you were a chick, who's the one guy you'd sleep with?

Were you thinking John Stamos too?

Did we just become best friends?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Jamel Irief said:


> On the count of three, name your favorite dinosaur. Don't even think about it. Just name it. Ready? One, two, three.
> 
> Velociraptor? Me too!
> 
> Favorite non-pornographic magazine to masturbate to.
> 
> Good Housekeeping. Me too!
> 
> If you were a chick, who's the one guy you'd sleep with?
> 
> Were you thinking John Stamos too?
> 
> Did we just become best friends?


Not until you play Mass Effect 3 and we share our choices together.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



> When Nets brass called it a day March 14, the eve of the NBA trading deadline, they did so believing they had a deal with the Magic for Dwight Howard in place. Yes, Howard almost became a Net.
> 
> But he also was on the verge of becoming a Laker if the Magic hierarchy had gone through with its threat of playing hardball with the indecisive superstar center.
> 
> According to league sources who spoke on the condition of anonymity, Orlando brass got fed up with Howard’s yes-no-maybe posturing and threatened to trade him to the Lakers, not his desired location, if he did not sign an agreement to waive the opt-out clause for the final season of his contract. Howard eventually signed the papers, but only after he was told “he would be a Laker by the end of the day,” according to one source.


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/nets_nearly_bagged_howard_EFqz8xRs8i5NoU0tzoXxeM#ixzz1rEe0SnOn


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Leverage move

Don't think the Lakers would take him if he didn't wanna be there


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Oh and only to a moron is the phrase "you're going to be a Laker by the end of the day" a punishment


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> Oh and only to a moron is the phrase "you're going to be a Laker by the end of the day" a punishment


While I'm not going to argue that Dwight is a moron, I don't think a player that doesn't want to play for the Lakers is a moron.

This is more applicable in baseball, but it's getting pretty common to see players want to win for other, less successful franchises, because when you start piling up the titles like "number 23, number 24, number 25, number 26..." (and obviously in this case I'm referring to the Yankees), it starts to become something mass produced, like you can just churn it out of a factory. You look at a player like Cliff Lee, is he a moron for not wanting to play in New York? Or any other baseball player who has a no trade clause to the Yankees? I think some players just want to win a title somewhere where it either hasn't been done before, or hasn't been done too often.

Obviously with the Yankees there's also that "New York media" thing that people spew, but I think that's a bit overblown.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

I know you too well because I knew you were going to say that...but like I said. If you're any player, especially a franchise player, and don't want to play for the Lakers you're a mother****ing fool, straight like that.

The only reason people don't like New York is the overbearing media, it has nothing to do with the Yankees success being a burden. Really Pay Ton? "They win too much, I don't want all that pressure." We have a word (or more) for someone who'd say that.

And I don't ever buy the I want my own legacy thing in Basketball, because the bulk of the titles belong to like a dozen teams if not half dozen the past 30 years, so guess what, if you had your chance to do it on your own like Dwight and haven't done it, you can't beat them so you join them. You don't pass up a chance like the Lakers because you want your "own legacy"...especially when you're Dwight coming off 8 years of failure in Orlando and the Nets are no guarantee to even be better than the Heat.

Who do you really look at anyway as a star besides Jordan and Duncan who really put a team on the map? And with those two does anyone say "and you know another impressive thing is traditionally those aren't great franchises, they really put them on the map" :gay:...I don't hear that. I could be wrong, but that's kind of a fantastic ideal to me.

Answer me this about the Lakers: Name one superstar who's played on the Lakers who they didn't come through for. Not one single superstar in *any era* of their history doesn't have a ring...maybe George Mikan doesn't I don't know off hand..but past that, and especially since Buss bought the team...the Lakers are going to come through for you and you're going to win. You pass on that, for any reason, you're a moron. Perhaps an admirable/lowkey type of moron, but still.

I laughed when the Lakers got Paul...like here they go again...they set the NBA on fire that day and noone in their loop was that surprised because that's what they do..their shit goes back to before most any NBA player was _born_...you don't pass up on that lineage.


----------



## 29380

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Elgin Baylor


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

OK...but that doesn't negate the overall point. You got me there I guess

Furthermore as a Knicks fan you haven't been qualified to talk about this sort of thing since 1999


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> I know you too well because I knew you were going to say that...but like I said. If you're any player, especially a franchise player, and don't want to play for the Lakers you're a mother****ing fool, straight like that.
> 
> The only reason people don't like New York is the overbearing media, it has nothing to do with the Yankees success being a burden. Really Pay Ton? "They win too much, I don't want all that pressure." We have a word (or more) for someone who'd say that.


There are some where that applies, and there are others where that doesn't. Cliff Lee and his wife said the New York media had nothing to do with their decision, and you know what? I believe them. And considering Cliff Lee's postseason record, I don't think he's worried about pressure.

And my argument wasn't that the Yankees "win too much that it would be pressure". It's that they "win too much that would championship #28 be as valuable as championship #2 in Philly?" I'm not somebody who believes all championships are the same. I believe some championships hold more value than others, especially when you're churning them out like Twinkies.



Dre said:


> And I don't ever buy the I want my own legacy thing in Basketball, because the bulk of the titles belong to like a dozen teams if not half dozen the past 30 years, so guess what, if you had your chance to do it on your own like Dwight and haven't done it, you can't beat them so you join them. You don't pass up a chance like the Lakers because you want your "own legacy"...especially when you're Dwight coming off 8 years of failure in Orlando and the Nets are no guarantee to even be better than the Heat.


But you're putting this on some historic level, and I'm saying this is a fairly new trend. Of course the bulk of the titles belong to only a few teams. But you're starting to see players that want to do it elsewhere. 



Dre said:


> Who do you really look at anyway as a star besides Jordan and Duncan who really put a team on the map? And with those two does anyone say "and you know another impressive thing is traditionally those aren't great franchises, they really put them on the map" :gay:...I don't hear that. I could be wrong, but that's kind of a fantastic ideal to me.


Hell ****ing yeah you do. What are you crazy? It's because you don't live in a city that has embraced a player that has done that. Jordan is treated like a god here despite being a ****ing asshole. So is Pippen (he's not an asshole, I'm just saying). Maybe not on a national level, but locally you hear that shit all the time. "Jordan put us on. Pippen put us on." I'm sure it's like that in San Antonio too. I'm sure people feel that way about Isiah in Detroit, and Olajuwan in Houston, and probably now Dirk in Dallas and Wade in Miami. It's a valued thing to be THE guy in your city for basically the rest of your life because nobody has given that city as much as you.



Dre said:


> Answer me this about the Lakers: Name one superstar who's played on the Lakers who they didn't come through for. Not one single superstar in *any era* of their history doesn't have a ring...maybe George Mikan doesn't I don't know off hand..but past that, and especially since Buss bought the team...the Lakers are going to come through for you and you're going to win. You pass on that, for any reason, you're a moron. Perhaps an admirable/lowkey type of moron, but still.


Nah, you'll win. I don't dispute that, I just find that if a players motives are to try their hand and win elsewhere, it's not stupid. It's a legitimate reason.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Pay Ton said:


> There are some where that applies, and there are others where that doesn't. Cliff Lee and his wife said the New York media had nothing to do with their decision, and you know what? I believe them. And considering Cliff Lee's postseason record, I don't think he's worried about pressure.


So OK, he just wanted to go to another team. I mean the Rangers have a better chance of winning than the Nets, so that's different. Lee did go to the Rangers right. You know I forgot it was opening day yesterday too...

Anyways Dwight and anyone else lose points in my book because the Nets are probably not going to win anything and the Lakers are a better option at this time, that and the history.



> And my argument wasn't that the Yankees "win too much that it would be pressure". It's that they "win too much that would championship #28 be as valuable as championship #2 in Philly?" I'm not somebody who believes all championships are the same. I believe some championships hold more value than others, especially when you're churning them out like Twinkies.


Well that's where we differ, and I think players would tell you that too. Why do you think players have no problem ring chasing, because a ring is a ring...it doesn't matter if it's ring 3 or 28 for a franchise. It has it's own value to a player that can't be quantified by a fanbase or journalist. It makes you apart of the club, basically.

And no, that doesn't contradict my point, because I'm saying you go to LA because the Lakers have that history of knowing what it takes to win, not *just because* they win. It's not "look at these 16 rings, it's we knew what it took to get 16 rings".



> But you're putting this on some historic level, and I'm saying this is a fairly new trend. Of course the bulk of the titles belong to only a few teams. But you're starting to see players that want to do it elsewhere.


This kind of reminds me of college sports the past couple years. It's quite funny and noone talks about it...You have the media hype about wide openness and parity and Boise State and mid majors and all that...and then when it boils down to it 100 years from now when the history books are looked at it's still LSU, USC, Alabama, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UConn winning, just like it's always been. That trickles up to pro sports too. The ones who really get that jewelry are the ones who have that shit ingrained. For all the depth of the West that 07(?) wasn't it Lakers-Celtics for the real chips?

And maybe someone who's older is qualified to speak on this, but I don't think it's some new trend that their are stars going to non marquee teams. It's probably always been that way, just got less hype from the media because instead of less attention ESPN is paying a small town it's in 1970 the media around an area could've literally been nonexistent and they don't get played up as much.

And it's not really always something about a new niche because Amare and Carmelo went to the Knicks, Paul would've went to LA and Dwight would've probably tried to too...everyone isn't throwing tradition out the window.



> Hell ****ing yeah you do. What are you crazy? It's because you don't live in a city that has embraced a player that has done that. Jordan is treated like a god here despite being a ****ing asshole. So is Pippen (he's not an asshole, I'm just saying). Maybe not on a national level, but locally you hear that shit all the time. "Jordan put us on. Pippen put us on." I'm sure it's like that in San Antonio too. I'm sure people feel that way about Isiah in Detroit, and Olajuwan in Houston, and probably now Dirk in Dallas and Wade in Miami. It's a valued thing to be THE guy in your city for basically the rest of your life because nobody has given that city as much as you.


They'd get that shit anywhere though, so it's not because of "putting them on". If anything I understand it more because I live in a city where say Darrell Green is a god, and he's a HOFer, but any given year was he really a top tier CB like that? Joe Theismann is a god...good running back...not a top tier RB ala Emmitt but he's our Emmitt...local players get love regardless.



> Nah, you'll win. I don't dispute that, I just find that if a players motives are to try their hand and win elsewhere, it's not stupid. It's a legitimate reason.


If the other hands are shitty you go with the smart money is my point. I mean damn the Nets couldn't even get Carlos Boozer or Lee to come get overpaid by them..they gave away a pick for free unless it's top 3 pick...what can they do for Dwight. That's where he wants to go and you think that makes sense?

And then....let's keep it funky it's not even all about wanting to try his hand at winning somewhere new Dwight wants to go to New York in part to become some bullshit star or whatever. His intentions aren't even pure enough to warrant this back and forth


----------



## Blue

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Probably didn't want to be forever measured with Shaq... Either that, or he wants to be the man and didn't want to defer to :kobe1:


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> So OK, he just wanted to go to another team. I mean the Rangers have a better chance of winning than the Nets, so that's different. Lee did go to the Rangers right. You know I forgot it was opening day yesterday too...


Phillies.



Dre said:


> Anyways Dwight and anyone else lose points in my book because the Nets are probably not going to win anything and the Lakers are a better option at this time, that and the history.


Well hold up. Just because I defend a player for not wanting to go to the Lakers doesn't mean I defend him for wanting to go the Nets, lol. That's two different extremes. Lakers or Nets? Come on, there has to be an in between. It's not one or the other. I'm just saying I understand players who would want to build a legacy elsewhere. Of course I think you have to go to a situation where you have an OPPORTUNITY to build a legacy. The Nets just seem like a cluster**** right now.



Dre said:


> Well that's where we differ, and I think players would tell you that too. Why do you think players have no problem ring chasing, because a ring is a ring...it doesn't matter if it's ring 3 or 28 for a franchise. It has it's own value to a player that can't be quantified by a fanbase or journalist. It makes you apart of the club, basically.


Depends on the player and the situation. If you're a player who won a ring, of course you're going to defend ring chasing. But if you're a player who didn't ring chase on the outside looking in? You make fun of the player who ring chases. Gary Payton is my favorite player of all time, and while he'll defend his ring to his dying day, how much shit has he gotten by Charles, Kenny, Webber and other former players/NBA analysts about winning his ring with the Heat? Seems like every time he was an analyst they were giving him shit about his ring because it "didn't count". Seems to me that when players are keeping it real, they'll tell you that all rings aren't the same in importance.



Dre said:


> And no, that doesn't contradict my point, because I'm saying you go to LA because the Lakers have that history of knowing what it takes to win, not *just because* they win. It's not "look at these 16 rings, it's we knew what it took to get 16 rings".


Who knew what it took, though? Because that player flashing those sixteen rings wasn't even there for the first ten rings the Lakers won. Hell, he might not have been born. He's just part of a long lineage of Laker greats, which is cool, I'm not saying it isn't, but it's not like dude was there from the beginning either.



Dre said:


> This kind of reminds me of college sports the past couple years. It's quite funny and noone talks about it...You have the media hype about wide openness and parity and Boise State and mid majors and all that...and then when it boils down to it 100 years from now when the history books are looked at it's still LSU, USC, Alabama, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UConn winning, just like it's always been. That trickles up to pro sports too. The ones who really get that jewelry are the ones who have that shit ingrained. For all the depth of the West that 07(?) wasn't it Lakers-Celtics for the real chips?


I'm not disputing that that is how it is, I'm just disputing that you're seeing a few players now who want to build their own thing. Whether that occurs or not, who knows? But it isn't idiocy that they're trying to do something different. Even players like Garnett, who ended up winning with the Celtics, I still consider him a player who was trying to win a ring somewhere where it wasn't done. He always says his two biggest regrets were not leaving Minnesota sooner, and not winning a ring for Minnesota (which is contradictory but whatever).



Dre said:


> And maybe someone who's older is qualified to speak on this, but I don't think it's some new trend that their are stars going to non marquee teams. It's probably always been that way, just got less hype from the media because instead of less attention ESPN is paying a small town it's in 1970 the media around an area could've literally been nonexistent and they don't get played up as much.
> 
> And it's not really always something about a new niche because Amare and Carmelo went to the Knicks, Paul would've went to LA and Dwight would've probably tried to too...everyone isn't throwing tradition out the window.


No of course not. Tradition is too strong to just be ignored like that. But more and more players are trying to build legacies where there weren't legacies before.



Dre said:


> They'd get that shit anywhere though, so it's not because of "putting them on". If anything I understand it more because I live in a city where say Darrell Green is a god, and he's a HOFer, but any given year was he really a top tier CB like that? Joe Theismann is a god...good running back...not a top tier RB ala Emmitt but he's our Emmitt...local players get love regardless.


It's a different type of love though. Example: Ditka, Pippen and Jordan get treated like gods here. Everybody is appreciative of what they did in this city. It's like they're invincible. Another Chicago legend like Ernie Banks, the great Cub player, also gets treated like royalty here. But it's different. It's more sympathetic and there's more pity. It's like, "Poor Ernie. He never got to win. He was such a good guy and a good player. Poor Ernie. He deserved it." So yeah, they get love regardless, but one type of love is better than the other.



Dre said:


> If the other hands are shitty you go with the smart money is my point. I mean damn the Nets couldn't even get Carlos Boozer or Lee to come get overpaid by them..they gave away a pick for free unless it's top 3 pick...what can they do for Dwight. That's where he wants to go and you think that makes sense?


Nah. I can't defend Dwight wanting to go the New Jersey. Like I said, he's a moron, but for different reasons. I can only defend future players who might not want to go to the Lakers.



Dre said:


> And then....let's keep it funky it's not even all about wanting to try his hand at winning somewhere new Dwight wants to go to New York in part to become some bullshit star or whatever. His intentions aren't even pure enough to warrant this back and forth


Probably so. I wouldn't doubt it. Like I said, this was more a defense of future Player X not wanting to play for the Lakers, and not Dwight Howard not wanting to play for the Lakers.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

George Mikan has 5 rings! Respect!


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Pay Ton said:


> Phillies.


Well shit they have a legacy of their own...they're not some shitty franchise that just got relevant, plus they're stacked and could win. That kind of eliminates that from the discussion. Lee spurned the Yankees for a better situation, there's nothing wrong with that.




> Well hold up. Just because I defend a player for not wanting to go to the Lakers doesn't mean I defend him for wanting to go the Nets, lol. That's two different extremes. Lakers or Nets? Come on, there has to be an in between. It's not one or the other. I'm just saying I understand players who would want to build a legacy elsewhere. Of course I think you have to go to a situation where you have an OPPORTUNITY to build a legacy. The Nets just seem like a cluster**** right now.


Nah, we're not being general though, we're talking about this situation. Dwight wanted the Nets over the Lakers.




> Depends on the player and the situation. If you're a player who won a ring, of course you're going to defend ring chasing. But if you're a player who didn't ring chase on the outside looking in? You make fun of the player who ring chases. Gary Payton is my favorite player of all time, and while he'll defend his ring to his dying day, how much shit has he gotten by Charles, Kenny, Webber and other former players/NBA analysts about winning his ring with the Heat? Seems like every time he was an analyst they were giving him shit about his ring because it "didn't count". Seems to me that when players are keeping it real, they'll tell you that all rings aren't the same in importance.


But he can still get at Charles and Chris for not having one at all. And let's go back to the original point you made, you think they would be shitting on him for winning a title for a historic franchise? You think they'd shit on Paul Pierce or KG for that?




> Who knew what it took, though? Because that player flashing those sixteen rings wasn't even there for the first ten rings the Lakers won. Hell, he might not have been born. He's just part of a long lineage of Laker greats, which is cool, I'm not saying it isn't, but it's not like dude was there from the beginning either.


Management and ownership...they pass down shit more than you think. Teams have a formula and if it's successful they rarely **** with it. Steelers, Patriots, Spurs...on the flipside a team like the Knicks have a formula that's not successful and no matter who they get (as evidenced this year, the Knicks have ****in talent) it seems to not work out.





> I'm not disputing that that is how it is, I'm just disputing that you're seeing a few players now who want to build their own thing. Whether that occurs or not, who knows? But it isn't idiocy that they're trying to do something different. Even players like Garnett, who ended up winning with the Celtics, I still consider him a player who was trying to win a ring somewhere where it wasn't done. He always says his two biggest regrets were not leaving Minnesota sooner, and not winning a ring for Minnesota (which is contradictory but whatever).
> 
> No of course not. Tradition is too strong to just be ignored like that. But more and more players are trying to build legacies where there weren't legacies before.


Real talk what does "more and more" really mean. The Heat ok, the Nets if they can get Deron and Dwight...Paul didn't mind going to the Clippers because they had a good situation for him. 

But my thing is these guys are following the talent more than trying to stake some claim to putting on a city. Who's voluntarily gone to a pretty much blank slate in the past 10 years and "put it on"...talent overrides legacy. 

And per the KG point, he was drafted there, so he didn't have a choice in staying there, plus they gave him a fatass contract and they were in the playoffs all the time. He didn't want out until they just weren't even a playoff team.



> It's a different type of love though. Example: Ditka, Pippen and Jordan get treated like gods here. Everybody is appreciative of what they did in this city. It's like they're invincible. Another Chicago legend like Ernie Banks, the great Cub player, also gets treated like royalty here. But it's different. It's more sympathetic and there's more pity. It's like, "Poor Ernie. He never got to win. He was such a good guy and a good player. Poor Ernie. He deserved it." So yeah, they get love regardless, but one type of love is better than the other.


Nah, I just don't see it. Love is love. If you're cheering for a guy you're cheering for them. I mean if you encounter a player how many different types of love can you give him? PAUSE.

I mean if he won a ring do you pay for his whole meal...whereas if he didn't you just pay for his drinks...I mean...I think you're grasping at straws there. If you did your thing for a long time you did your thing and fans love you regardless.



> Nah. I can't defend Dwight wanting to go the New Jersey. Like I said, he's a moron, but for different reasons. I can only defend future players who might not want to go to the Lakers.


Well that's on a case by case thing. If they have a better option they should go for it, but he doesn't.



> Probably so. I wouldn't doubt it. Like I said, this was more a defense of future Player X not wanting to play for the Lakers, and not Dwight Howard not wanting to play for the Lakers.


That's fair


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Dwight not wanting to go to the Lakers makes perfect sense. Go to LA and become a poor man's Shaq or become the biggest thing to happen to Brooklyn since Jackie Robinson? Easy choice. Go to LA and have Kobe take your shots or go to the Nets and get feeds from Deron Williams? Another easy choice. I wouldn't want to go to the Lakers either if I were in Dwight's position. First you steal Shaq's nickname and then you follow Shaq from Orlando to Los Angeles. There's no way to win in that situation.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*



Dre said:


> Well shit they have a legacy of their own...they're not some shitty franchise that just got relevant, plus they're stacked and could win. That kind of eliminates that from the discussion. Lee spurned the Yankees for a better situation, there's nothing wrong with that.


LOL, what legacy are you talking about? The first team to lose 10,000 games? I mean, the Phillies were perennial losers up until recently. But it's all good, I know what you mean. Cliff Lee did go to a good situation, I agree.



Dre said:


> But he can still get at Charles and Chris for not having one at all. And let's go back to the original point you made, you think they would be shitting on him for winning a title for a historic franchise? You think they'd shit on Paul Pierce or KG for that?


Nah, it was just meant to support my point that all rings aren't the same. I actually think the recent ring the Celtics won is a more valued ring than say Bill Russell's 6 ring en route to his 8 in a row (that's a random ass guess, I don't know if there was some special situation behind that ring), because it ended the long Celtic drought of not winning a championship.

But nah nobody would shit on a player for winning a ring with a historic orginization, you're right.



Dre said:


> Management and ownership...they pass down shit more than you think. Teams have a formula and if it's successful they rarely **** with it. Steelers, Patriots, Spurs...on the flipside a team like the Knicks have a formula that's not successful and no matter who they get (as evidenced this year, the Knicks have ****in talent) it seems to not work out.


Yeah, I guess you're right. There is a type of culture that goes with every orginization that's been around a while and sometimes that's hard to break.




Dre said:


> Real talk what does "more and more" really mean. The Heat ok, the Nets if they can get Deron and Dwight...Paul didn't mind going to the Clippers because they had a good situation for him.
> 
> But my thing is these guys are following the talent more than trying to stake some claim to putting on a city. Who's voluntarily gone to a pretty much blank slate in the past 10 years and "put it on"...talent overrides legacy.
> 
> And per the KG point, he was drafted there, so he didn't have a choice in staying there, plus they gave him a fatass contract and they were in the playoffs all the time. He didn't want out until they just weren't even a playoff team.


Yeah, you know...you could be right. Maybe I'm taking these things at face value, but when I see players like Durant, Duncan, Dirk, etc. I feel like a big part of the reason they're doing it is for their franchise and the history of their long (or short) suffering fanbase. I mean, when Dirk won the championship, he just kept saying, "I wanted to win a title for Dallas." It wasn't, "I just wanted to win a championship." He always made sure to include Dallas in there, so I could be naive, but I believe there are more and more players that are trying to win things in cities/franchises that hadn't won before because they know what it would mean to win there.

Duncan's not the best example because he came into a winning situation, so how was he to leave? But you can't forget there was the temptation for him as a free agent in 00 or 01 to team up with T-Mac in Orlando, and he chose not to do it, so I think there's something there as well, even if it is different.

As for Garnett, yeah, he didn't CHOOSE to go to Minnesota, but I don't think that makes his intentions any different. Guy really wanted to win a title there because he knew the ramifications if he did so.




Dre said:


> Nah, I just don't see it. Love is love. If you're cheering for a guy you're cheering for them. I mean if you encounter a player how many different types of love can you give him? PAUSE.


Yeah, maybe so. Love is love, and I'd even agree that a player like Garnett gets more love in Minnesota that he does in Boston, but at the same time, I'm sure it's a different type of love in Sota. You know the sort of, "Yeah we were really pulling for you to win one here. We love you regardless, though." And in Boston it's surely, "Thanks for bringing this franchise back to respectability."



Dre said:


> I mean if he won a ring do you pay for his whole meal...whereas if he didn't you just pay for his drinks...I mean...I think you're grasping at straws there. If you did your thing for a long time you did your thing and fans love you regardless.


Yeah, I'm probably grasping a bit. I guess you're right. I mean, I can't really disagree with anything you're saying because I understand it. But my fundamental point remains: Any player who doesn't want to player for a franchise like the Celtics/Lakers/Yankees/etc. isn't really a "moron", if his intentions are to start a legacy somewhere fresh, or relatively fresh, at least.

Dwight, whatever his motives, has proven that he's a moron, but not necessarily because he didn't want to go to L.A. Just because of other shit.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

I came in wanting to catch up on this thread, but there's too much reading.


Goodbye.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

To summarize for you:

Dwight's a jerk for not wanting to go to LA because they win a lot and therefore should be self perpetuating now.


----------



## Dre

*Re: CONFIRMED: Dwight Howard Staying In Orlando (For At Least Another Season)*

Let's take this bad boy to number one all-time:



> Dwight Howard wants out of Orlando, the events of today notwithstanding, a source close to Howard tells SheridanHoops.com
> 
> On the day coach Stan Van Gandy and general manager Otis Smith lost their jobs with the Magic, a source who has spoken with Howard recently said the All-Star center desperately wants to be traded prior to the start of next season.
> 
> And although the Brooklyn Nets are still considered the frontrunner, “it is not going to be a one-horse race,” the source said, listing the Mavericks, Knicks and — to a lesser degree — the Clippers and Lakers as among the destinations that would appeal to Howard.
> 
> When the news first broke Monday that Van Gundy had been fired and Smith had agreed to leave, the knee-jerk reaction was to assume that Howard had won the power struggle, and the Magic would now empower him to have a say in who the new hires would be — provided he agreed to sign a contract extension and commit to the Magic for the long term.
> 
> But in fact, the source said, Howard wants out of Orlando more than he ever did before in order to start a new chapter of his career. And it is well-known throughout the league that the Magic do not want to endure another soap opera season like the one they just experienced.
> Orlando team executives are expected to meet soon with Howard as he recovers from the back surgery he underwent last month in California. If Howard tells them he wants out, they are expected to try to accomodate him and deal him to the highest bidder.
> 
> One piece of the puzzle that could influence Howard’s landing spot is whether a team acquiring Howard would be willing to take on the contract of Hedo Turkoglu, who is due to make $23.6 million over the next two seasons. The combined salaries of Howard and Turkoglu will be $30.6 million next season, and few teams will have the cap room or the assets to do a trade in which the salaries match.


http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/05/21/magic-oust-coach-stan-van-gundy-gm-otis-smith/


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Dwight Howard Still Wants Out?*

How can the Nets gets this done? I still don't understand.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard Still Wants Out?*

:idea: Saves Orlando ~$8 million:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c3lcmwg


Melo and Tyson for Dwight would probably make sense but Dolan would never trade Melo. :nonono:


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard Still Wants Out?*

Dwight's back and lack of leverage by Orlando means the Nets could get away with Lopez and everything that's not Deron for it.

If that pick becomes top 3 it becomes almost a given I think


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard Still Wants Out?*

Can the Nets trade Lopez, he is a RFA if he signs an offer sheet with a team can he be sign and traded?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard Still Wants Out?*

I'm sure he can or he wouldn't have been mentioned in that article and they would've mentioned earlier this season that the Nets were in a race to trade him or something


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard Still Wants Out?*



Knicks4life said:


> Can the Nets trade Lopez, he is a RFA if he signs an offer sheet with a team can he be sign and traded?


This is why I don't think a Brook Jersey trade scenario is realistic, there's no way that one of the other teams that cleared salary for Williams or Howard _don't_ throw a max contract offer at Fluffy Lopez, knowing that the Nyets _have_ to match, just to either ensure that Williams doesn't re-sign or that a Howard deal is a no-go. For example, Dallas makes Lopez a max offer, which throws a wrench into New Jersey's attempts to find a genuine all star to go with Williams or someone like Boston does so to ensure that the Nyets can't complete a Howard deal (at least until closer to the trade deadline).


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Dwight Howard Still Wants Out?*

But if a team does that, they might be stuck paying Lopez the max. Is it worth the risk? Unlikely.

I think whether Gerald Wallace opts in, opts out, or extends plays a role in this scenario as well.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard Still Wants Out?*

Cuban ain't throwin no max at Lopez, fix your hypotheticals.

Kobe needs to apologize and tell Dwight he'll fall back and just do Bynum and maybe Gasol for him. Kobe will back off the gunner mentality if he plays with teammates that let him do that.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*










http://store.nba.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12839090

:laugh:


----------



## Ben

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

I never usually click the links but I had to see if that was real. Wow.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

I'm.......relatively certain I'm going to buy that shirt and just stash it until he gets traded. That goes beyond funny into full-on surreal.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



Bogg said:


> I'm.......relatively certain I'm going to buy that shirt and just stash it until he gets traded. That goes beyond funny into full-on surreal.


Get me one.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

That's worse than Cleveland filming that commercial. At least their begging was noble and even sentimental, this just looks half desperate and half like sarcasm :jigga:


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

Someone post the "brand new day" Vince Carter commercial from the year he forced his way out of Toronto. I can't do streaming media at work.



> Brand new day/everything is a-okay/the rain is gone, the clouds are clear/it's gonna be a better year....


cracks me up every time


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

First time I've ever seen that commercial. Wow. Best. Thing. Ever.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

I assume that's it, thank you K4L.


----------



## Ben

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

I have no words for that commercial. NBA players have to be involved in some of the worst commercials ever.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

Oh and mister I always admit when I'm wrong Ehmunro still hasn't answered my question up there


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



Dre said:


> Oh and mister I always admit when I'm wrong Ehmunro still hasn't answered my question up there


I have never once seen EH admit hes wrong on here in the many years I've posted with him.


Usually when he's wrong he'll start calling everyone else stupid. 

That's usually a good indicator that you've won.


----------



## PauloCatarino

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



R-Star said:


> I have never once seen EH admit hes wrong on here in the many years I've posted with him.
> 
> 
> Usually when he's wrong he'll start calling everyone else stupid.
> 
> That's usually a good indicator that you've won.


True (thinking about Munro's "the Cavs will dominate the league for at least 10 years!" proclamation)


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

http://tracking.si.com/2012/06/07/dwight-howard-isnt-seeking-trade-orlando-magic/?section=si_latest

THIS ***** scared!! (Bishop)


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

If Dwight doesn't like all the talk, he could, you know, come out and say one way or the other what he wants.

"I want to stay"

"I want to go"

Problem solved.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

Don't care what he allegedly wants anymore, the vast majority of his teammates and fans want him out of Orlando. Too much damage has been done.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

Why did he give up his option? He could be a free agent right now


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



hobojoe said:


> Don't care what he allegedly wants anymore, the vast majority of his teammates and fans want him out of Orlando. Too much damage has been done.



Orlando fans are stupid and spoiled. Better a disgruntled Howard IMO. The Grizz have never been as lucky as they have been.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



Dre said:


> Oh and mister I always admit when I'm wrong Ehmunro still hasn't answered my question up there


I glanced back over the thread to figure out what you were talking about and I still can't as I responded to every one of your posts. So you're going to have to help me out here.



R-Star said:


> I have never once seen EH admit hes wrong on here in the many years I've posted with him.


Yes, well, the memory is usually the first thing to go with mass quantities of beer drinking. Please see the Ochocinco thread on the football board for the most recent example. I'm actually the one guy that does own up to errors.



Paolo Catarino said:


> True (thinking about Munro's "the Cavs will dominate the league for at least 10 years!" proclamation)


Actually the statement was that the Cavs were a running mate away from running away and hiding from the rest of the NBA. The key part being the running mate. Unfortunately in the seven years they had James the best they came up with was a middle aged Antawn Jamison. More's the pity for them.


----------



## marcus_sr

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

I wish they would just hurry up and do this so I will not have to hear this all off season and leading up to the regular season. I do think if D Will stays they, as in Brooklyn, are instant playoff locks


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



RollWithEm said:


> Predicting What Every NBA Team Would Be Willing to Trade for Dwight Howard
> 
> I like some of these ideas.


Stopped reading when the author suggested a Boston trade without Rondo and called it a good possibility.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

I did the same, but you should have read on, there were some truly hilarious ones in there.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



E.H. Munro said:


> I did the same, but you should have read on, there were some truly hilarious ones in there.


Okay, I went back after you said this and I made it up to Varejao and Tristan Thompson. I'm not going back again without hard liquor.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

Dude, that's hilarious, I nearly busted a gut howling at that one. Everyone in my office was looking at me trying to figure out what the hell was going on.


----------



## NzaMcDza

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*

I can't wait till Howard gets traded and hope he gets the longest contract possible just so we don't have to go through all of this for a good while again!

Worst trade saga ever


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



RollWithEm said:


> If you use the *Home Page* and *New Posts* buttons, that problem is solved.


If you're on this site every hour or two, sure.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



hobojoe said:


> If you're on this site every hour or two, sure.


There are 50 threads listed on the main page. As long as you visit every 36 hours or so, that should be sufficient.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Magic ready to trade Howard*



> Hennigan will immediately be confronted with making a decision on All-Star center Dwight Howard’s future. Howard is signed through the 2012-13 season, but another fallout with management has left him wanting a trade soon. Howard will push for a trade to the Brooklyn Nets before the June 28 NBA draft to clear the way for Nets free agent Deron Williams to re-sign with the Nets and partner in the new Brooklyn arena next season.


:stephena:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--magic-to-hire-okc-s-rob-hennigan-as-new-gm.html


----------



## Maravilla

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

Again!


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

Whatever.


----------



## Ben

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

I just hope it's sorted soon. It's as boring as the Carmelo saga now. Except Dwight is being a bigger bitch.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



> daldridgetnt Source: "not a chance" Dwight Howard stays in Houston after next season if traded there. Story up soon on NBA.com.


...


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

Houston need to go sit down somewhere and try to draft someone

Time to purge and rebuild


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

is there anywhere this dickhole wants to play?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

Look Roux keep that type of shit to yourself


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Dre said:


> Houston need to go sit down somewhere and try to draft someone
> 
> Time to purge and rebuild


Wouldn't a Howard trade essentially do that? With the added benefit that they finally get a playoff run before rebuilding? They aren't getting high firsts for their flotsam and you don't turn around a team by accumulating all sorts of mid to low first round picks. _Because if that approach worked Houston would already be dominating the NBA._


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



roux2dope said:


> is there anywhere this dickhole wants to play?


I hope Hennigan gives Howard the finger here. Brook Jersey has nothing to trade at the moment so they should tell him to go **** himself.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

In a roundabout way sure but I don't see how management could weather the rise and fall that would engender in the fans. 

I mean you shit on GMs all the time but you'd be fine with one trading a shit load of assets for a guy who has no intentions of staying...if it's that bad in Houston well I don't know what to say.

I'd rather they trade Lowry, Scola, all the vets off in separate deals for more cap space and end up with a shitty, cheap roster.

At least it sends a consistent message that way.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

Houston doesn't really have a shitload of assets. The rumour is that it's Lowry for #5 and #14/#16/something else for #8, with a couple of pieces of junk...errr... prospects and the two picks for Howard. That clears their roster of the flotsam, and if Howard leaves the only anchor on the roster will be Scola, but Scola isn't good enough to win anything by himself, so in a worst case scenario they get one year of Dwight followed by rebuilding. In a best case scenario he enjoys himself enough to stay.

Scola, by the way, is largely untradeable. I know that you guys don't pay much attention, but the GMs do. Scola's a roleplayer making 16%-17% of the salary cap.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

Whatever amount of assets you have in general....trading all of them for someone who has no intentions of playing for you (and starred in a two year shit show that got his Coach and GM axed) is not the way to go


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Floods said:


> They weren't gonna get any useful future picks for Lowry or Budinger. If they get this year's 8th for Lowry it's a victory for the Rockets. 18 was a steal for Budinger.


And they can get a decent 1st for Lowry any year they want. He's probably the first guy after you rattle off names of star PGs so he's going to be well sought after.

18 was not a steal for Budinger, the guy can play, but you think everyone is terrible anwyay



> We've already established that winning is low on Dwight's priority list, so why their ability to threaten OKC or whoever would have an influence on him is beyond me.
> 
> Honestly if this goes down I think Dwight sticks around in Houston.


First off, you don't know what his priorities are :gay:

But as E-monk said Houston isn't a nice place, so the only thing that could possibly change his mind about wanting to leave is a taste of contention, which he won't get...if they could compete it would influence him to consider staying, but who wants to join a team potentially worse than what you had in Orlando in a shit town..and then who would wake up (from gunshots) with an epiphany one night and decide to stay


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

For ****s sakes Dre. I've got no stake in this thread, but you argue way too ****ing much. And that's coming from me of all people.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Dre said:


> First off, you don't know what his priorities are :gay:


If he rejected Chicago, winning's obviously not high on his priority list.



> But as E-monk said Houston isn't a nice place, so the only thing that could possibly change his mind about wanting to leave is a taste of contention, which he won't get...if they could compete it would influence him to consider staying, but who wants to join a team potentially worse than what you had in Orlando in a shit town..and then who would wake up (from gunshots) with an epiphany one night and decide to stay


People have told me Houston is a nice place, was thinking about potentially moving there myself, but everyone's a critic I guess.

If winning isn't Dwight's big thing, why would contention be the thing to sway him? Yes, it's entirely possible Dwight Howard wakes up one day and decides he loves Houston. He's flip-flopped on Orlando countless times, and there's very little to like there. The guy's clueless.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

How am I arguing too much by replying to people that quoted me.

But if I ignore them then "oh I'm being a pussy and running from another argument" or "I think I'm too good"

I can't win with you ****ers

Leave me the **** alone man...let me post like everyone else without getting ****ing critiques and tips in the process. Noone else catches the shit I do on here...and then you wonder why I lash out


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



R-Star said:


> For ****s sakes Dre. I've got no stake in this thread, but you argue way too ****ing much. And that's coming from me of all people.


Isn't that the reason this place exists to begin with? So we can argue?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Dre said:


> How am I arguing too much by replying to people that quoted me.
> 
> But if I ignore them then "oh I'm being a pussy and running from another argument" or "I think I'm too good"
> 
> I can't win with you ****ers
> 
> Leave me the **** alone man...let me post like everyone else without getting ****ing critiques and tips in the process. Noone else catches the shit I do on here...and then you wonder why I lash out


Are you honestly as out of touch with reality that you think for some reason people give you some sort of special hate around here? The "running away" is when you and me have a debate and you just decide you don't want to talk about it anymore. That's not comparable with coming into every thread and talking to people like they're some never watched basketball dickhead and you're teaching them something. 

When I get in an argument, or someone decides to rant against me, its because I've goaded someone into it, or someones pissed off from previous arguments.


I'll say again Dre, you act like some little emo kid around here.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Floods said:


> Isn't that the reason this place exists to begin with? So we can argue?


Just like 5 or 6 or us. Most of the other people are coming into this thread to try to actually stay up to date on the Dwight saga. Surprisingly that's why I came in.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Floods said:


> If he rejected Chicago, winning's obviously not high on his priority list.


He didn't want to play next to Rose and share the marquee...stupid logic maybe, but it doesn't mean he doesn't value winning if his alternatives are winning squads. 

So winning wasn't high on LeBron's list because he rejected Chicago too? Amare? Carmelo?




> People have told me Houston is a nice place, was thinking about potentially moving there myself, but everyone's a critic I guess.


No, everyone's not a critic, Houston is just *not* a good idea. Don't do it Floods :2ti:



> If winning isn't Dwight's big thing, why would contention be the thing to sway him? Yes, it's entirely possible Dwight Howard wakes up one day and decides he loves Houston. He's flip-flopped on Orlando countless times, and there's very little to like there. The guy's clueless.


He felt that way about Orlando because it was his first and only franchise and he felt some kind of responsibility to be their saviour, the same kind of guilt LeBron felt about leaving Cleveland. He'd feel no kind of way about Houston except for them being dumb enough to trade for him knowing he doesn't want to be there. First impressions are a bitch.

And again, winning isn't Dwight's primary motive but he cares about it and it's the *only* possible thing Houston could to do sway him from wanting to leave. You're not going to be able to say "at the end of the day, it's Houston, take it or leave it" like you could a New York or LA. And Dwight is nearing the age where all that rebuilding is wasting his prime, so he's not going to be patient if he wasn't patient with his first franchise. There's a reason Ehmunro who's a Houston fan hasn't entertained the possibility of him staying this entire thread

But you think Houston is a nice place so we obviously won't agree there


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



R-Star said:


> Are you honestly as out of touch with reality that you think for some reason people give you some sort of special hate around here? The "running away" is when you and me have a debate and you just decide you don't want to talk about it anymore. That's not comparable with coming into every thread and talking to people like they're some never watched basketball dickhead and you're teaching them something.
> 
> When I get in an argument, or someone decides to rant against me, its because I've goaded someone into it, or someones pissed off from previous arguments.
> 
> 
> I'll say again Dre, you act like some little emo kid around here.


I don't care man just leave it alone and let us talk about the thread topic.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Dre said:


> It doesn't have to be LeBron James but if they get rid of everyone they aren't going to do well.


Dude, this started with you saying that they should just get rid of everyone and suck for high draft picks. So from the start my contention has been, if they're going to get rid of everyone one way or another, why the **** not get Dwight Howard in the bargain, because at least then they'd get one good year out of it.



Dre said:


> And how would trading everything for Dwight, having like a 20th pick as he moonwalks to wherever he wants going to sell hope? That sets back the process a whole year when you can just suck now by trading off assets for future picks.


But I thought sucking for a high draft pick was good? And it's just as good in 2014 & 2015 as 2013. But the bonus is that Howard might stay and you don't _have_ to take the "First we draft LeBron James" approach to rebuilding.



Dre said:


> ****ing. Retarded. logic. Especially considering how Dwight torpedoed the Magic.


Torpedoed them into the playoffs. Of course he was injured by year's end and required surgery. But he'll be healthy next year. And if he really wants to go play for a minor league team at year's end oh well. Then the Rockets can embark on what you think is the best rebuilding scheme, even though it usually works only two or three times a decade.



Dre said:


> Fans aren't going to appreciate that *at all*. He's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way just by what he was doing from Orlando, wait til he actually tries it in Houston. It won't be some huge ticket grab to see some meely mouthing jackass who can't wait to leave your city fight to be a second tier West team.


If you don't think fans appreciate watching their teams play games that matter I don't know what to tell you. The reality is different.



Dre said:


> They're better off with what they're doing, being a feisty lovable loser squad, at least those guys are likable. But you're not going to make substantially more money or endear yourself to a fanbase doing that.


Like that beloved franchise the Los Angeles Clippers. I mean I guess that it's true that the Clippers were one of the most beloved franchises in the NBA, for their mountain of losing seasons and bad draft picks, I haven't seen that approach work elsewhere. In fact, in New York fans sure got excited about watching the Knicks play games that matter, even though they all know the Knicks have no shot at a title. In Boston the Celtics revival (as a local fan favourite) started early last decade when Jim O'Brien transformed them into a playoff team. Even though we in Boston knew they had no shot at a title it was a relief to be watching games that mattered again. In fact, it seems to be a pattern everywhere. Except LA where the Clippers established themselves as one of the most popular franchises in the NBA because they were such lovable losers. 

Yeah, you can keep your lovable losers, thanks. Like most Houston fans I'll take watching games that matter again.

Anyway, back on the reality front the latest whispers floating around are that Houston may look to make a deal for Josh Smith as part of a bid to convince Dwight to stay in Houston.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Dre said:


> He didn't want to play next to Rose and share the marquee, stupid, but it doesn't mean he doesn't value winning if his alternatives are winning squads.
> 
> So winning wasn't high on LeBron's list because he rejected Chicago too? Amare? Carmelo?


Apples, meet oranges.



> He felt that way about Orlando because it was his first and only franchise and he felt some kind of responsibility to be their saviour, the same kind of guilt LeBron felt about leaving Cleveland. He'd feel no kind of way about Houston except for them being dumb enough to trade for him knowing he doesn't want to be there. First impressions are a bitch.
> 
> And again, winning isn't Dwight's primary motive but he cares about it and it's the *only* possible thing Houston could to do sway him from wanting to leave. You're not going to be able to say "at the end of the day, it's Houston, take it or leave it" like you could a New York or LA. And Dwight is nearing the age where all that rebuilding is wasting his prime, so he's not going to be patient if he wasn't patience with his first franchise. There's a reason Ehmunro who's a Houston fan hasn't entertained the possibility of him staying this entire thread
> 
> But you think Houston is a nice place so we obviously won't agree there


If Dwight cares about winning, but only on his highly specific and unrealistic terms, then he doesn't really care about winning.

Obviously Dwight staying with the Rockets is the best case scenario but Houston should still do the deal. If he walks, you start over anyway. Are they really gonna miss the 14th, 16th, and 18th picks, the two contracts they'll be giving up, and Patrick Patterson? I doubt it. Only the hardcore fans will know or really care about Dwight's antics so I don't know what you're worried about there.

And I've never even been to Houston, just going off what others told me about it. Just entertaining the idea. Texas in general seems okay with the lower taxes. Everyone is a critic though. There isn't a city in this country where I couldn't find two starkly different, very detailed opinions about the place in under 10 minutes of searching. But none of this is particularly relevant.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Floods said:


> If Dwight cares about winning, but only on his highly specific and unrealistic terms, then he doesn't really care about winning.
> 
> Obviously Dwight staying with the Rockets is the best case scenario but Houston should still do the deal. If he walks, you start over anyway. Are they really gonna miss the 14th, 16th, and 18th picks, the two contracts they'll be giving up, and Patrick Patterson? I doubt it. Only the hardcore fans will know or really care about Dwight's antics so I don't know what you're worried about there.
> 
> And I've never even been to Houston, just going off what others told me about it. Just entertaining the idea. Texas in general seems okay with the lower taxes. Everyone is a critic though. There isn't a city in this country where I couldn't find two starkly different, very detailed opinions about the place in under 10 minutes of searching. But none of this is particularly relevant.


OK you're just being really dismissive and short sighted right here so we can wrap this up....So because he wants to win and win in a big city where he's the best player he's being unrealistic and highly specific....good to know ambition is frowned upon

And Dwight's been shat on on ESPN all year, this is hardly some insider storyline

Furthermore you don't think once he gets there the local media isn't going to dig that up? All it takes is one accusation for a player to be labeled a jerk, coach/franchise killer, Dwight gives them plenty of ammo. You could say what he did was worse than anything LeBron and Carmelo did, he left bodies in his wake so to speak

But we can agree to disagree, not because I'm too good or a pussy, but because I have work


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



Floods said:


> Texas in general seems okay with the lower taxes.


it really isnt unless you like swamps, scrub brush and lots and lots of concrete


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

I didn't mind my time there.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



R-Star said:


> I didn't mind my time there.


That's just because it was thawed.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*

Add Deron Williams to Houston's targeting system.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Howard pushing for trade to BK?*



TucsonClip said:


> Add Deron Williams to Houston's targeting system.


Especially if they can beard Danny Ferry into a trade built around Scola/Dalembert/pick for Smith.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Hou getting assets to make offer?*

Bump.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Hou getting assets to make offer?*

*Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard
*


> The Orlando Magic have begun to seriously consider offers to accommodate Dwight Howard’s desire to be traded, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> The Magic reached out to teams Saturday and told them that they’ll discuss proposals about moving Howard, sources said.
> 
> Howard and his agent, Dan Fegan, have repeatedly told the Magic in recent weeks that Howard wants to be moved, and that his preferred destination of the Brooklyn Nets hasn’t changed, sources said.
> 
> Nevertheless, time is running out for Howard to be traded to Brooklyn because Nets general manager Billy King has begun to aggressively explore deals for players like Joe Johnson, Luis Scola and O.J. Mayo in an attempt to surround free-agent point guard Deron Williams with more talent. Williams is choosing between the Nets and Dallas Mavericks and could make a decision in the next several days. Sources say Williams' patience with waiting for Howard to eventually come to Brooklyn is wearing out, and that he’s likely to make his decision whether to accept the Nets' five-year, $100 million contract offer devoid of Howard as a factor.
> 
> 
> The Nets are working to re-sign their own free agents – including Brook Lopez and Gerald Wallace – and their salary cap will be too congested to sign Howard as a free agent next summer. For now, Brooklyn could include Lopez in a sign-and-trade with young players and future draft picks for Howard, but the Nets probably can’t construct the most attractive package for Orlando.
> 
> The Houston Rockets remain determined to try to land Howard, and have several young players to offer as part of a package.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Why did he sign that one year extension? He's just making himself look like an even bigger fool at this point.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



> WojYahooNBA
> 
> Y! Sources: Lakers, Magic have contact about possible trade talks for Dwight Howard. http://t.co/zGvyyDjV


..


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> ..


...no...no...no no no no NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> ..


Yep, of course they are. We just had that thread about you guys stealing superstars, so why not make it Dwight.


I hate you guys.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Yep, of course they are. We just had that thread about you guys stealing superstars, so why not make it Dwight.
> 
> 
> I hate you guys.


Were used to it.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Even though he's the most obnoxious pro athlete this side of south beach, Dwight is and always has been my boy. I'd take him in a heartbeat.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Yep, of course they are. We just had that thread about you guys stealing superstars, so why not make it Dwight.
> 
> 
> I hate you guys.


At least now you won't have to argue whether or not the Pacers center is as good as the Lakers. You'll know you're number two.

Make an R-Star call to the Pacers front office, y'all need to lock Hibbert up.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Luke said:


> At least now you won't have to argue whether or not the Pacers center is as good as the Lakers. You'll know you're number two.
> 
> Make an R-Star call to the Pacers front office, y'all need to lock Hibbert up.


We'll get him locked up right away eh?


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Hey, Dwight Howard, I have an idea; Just shut the **** up for once.

Really starting to hate this guy. I kinda ignored the other crap before but all builds up.



> Orlando Magic star Dwight Howard told Yahoo! Sports he will not re-sign with a team outside his preferred list that trades for him, and emphatically denied that he ever used the term "blackmail" to describe how Magic officials convinced him to waive his early termination option.
> 
> As the Los Angeles Lakers, Houston Rockets and other teams prepare possible trade offers for him, Howard told Yahoo! by phone that, "There’s only one team on my list and if I don’t get traded there, I'll play the season out and explore my free agency after that."
> 
> Howard wouldn’t specify the team, but multiple league sources believe that it is the Brooklyn Nets.
> 
> Howard also denied an ESPN report that he had told people Orlando Magic officials had “blackmailed” him into forgoing the early termination option on his contract that ultimately cost him his free agency this summer.
> 
> "I never used the word blackmail in reference to any of my dealings with the Magic," Howard said. “I never said that. It’s defamatory and it’s inaccurate. I know what blackmail means and any report that I used the term incorrectly is inaccurate."



http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--dwight-howard--i-ll-only-re-sign-with-one-team.html


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



> Dwight Howard: I'll only re-sign with one team
> 5 minutes ago
> 
> Email
> 
> Orlando Magic star Dwight Howard told Yahoo! Sports he will not re-sign with a team outside his preferred list that trades for him, and emphatically denied that he ever used the term "blackmail" to describe how Magic officials convinced him to waive his early termination option.
> 
> As the Los Angeles Lakers, Houston Rockets and other teams prepare possible trade offers for him, Howard told Yahoo! by phone that, "There’s only one team on my list and if I don’t get traded there, I'll play the season out and explore my free agency after that."
> 
> Howard wouldn’t specify the team, but multiple league sources believe that it is the Brooklyn Nets.
> 
> Howard also denied an ESPN report that he had told people Orlando Magic officials had “blackmailed” him into forgoing the early termination option on his contract that ultimately cost him his free agency this summer.
> 
> "I never used the word blackmail in reference to any of my dealings with the Magic," Howard said. “I never said that. It’s defamatory and it’s inaccurate. I know what blackmail means and any report that I used the term incorrectly is inaccurate."
> 
> [Related: Magic entertaining trade offers for Dwight Howard]
> 
> Howard met with new Magic general manager Rob Hennigan on Friday in Los Angeles, and said he told Hennigan of his desire to be traded. However, Howard insisted he was merely repeating a position he had made clear to Magic officials since waiving his ETO in March.
> 
> "This was not the first time [that I asked for trade]," Howard said. "I communicated this to [Magic president] Alex [Martins] and [former general manager] Otis [Smith] way before Friday that I wanted to be traded – months before this meeting with Rob Hennigan. That was all way before Stan [Van Gundy] got fired."
> 
> Howard is rehabilitating from back surgery, and wouldn’t speculate on whether he could be prepared to return for the start of the regular season. Howard had a herniated disk repaired, and sizable fragments of bone removed on April 20. Before the diagnosis that Howard would require season-ending surgery late in the Magic's regular season, Howard had heard the suggestions inside and outside the organization that perhaps he wasn’t truly injured, that maybe he had bailed on his team.
> 
> "I’ve never faked anything," Howard told Yahoo! Sports. "I’d never fake a back injury to not play for my team. I played a lot of games in a lot of pain, and there were times that I was crying in the locker room afterward because I was so seriously hurt. But I kept fighting. I’ve played with a cracked sternum in the past, and played with a lot of different [injuries].
> 
> "This time, I couldn't play. Regardless of what people say, 'Hey, you’re Superman,' I'm a man. I bleed. And I have bones, too. And something happened that I couldn’t control.
> 
> "It really upset me that anyone would say that I was doing something out of spite for my team or my city. I have the utmost respect for the Magic organization, for the people of Orlando. Everything I did was from my heart, and I would never do anything to betray my city."
> 
> [Related: Nets discussing possible trade with Hawks for Joe Johnson]
> 
> Howard discussed something else that had become synonymous with his season, and that was the bizarre April 5 shootaround in Orlando when his former coach, Stan Van Gundy, told reporters that Orlando management had informed him that Howard had requested his firing. The video of Howard walking into a scrum of reporters, unaware of what Van Gundy had said, went viral. Ultimately, it became a flashpoint of criticism toward Howard.
> 
> When asked if he felt set up, Howard told Yahoo! Sports: “I did. I had no clue about what had happened, about what he had said. I wanted to clear it up that this was not what was happening behind closed doors, and I stepped into something that I didn’t know how to handle. It hurts me to this day, thinking about how people were saying these things about me, calling me, "a coach killer," and all this crazy stuff. It upset me, it hurt a lot."


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--dwight-howard--i-ll-only-re-sign-with-one-team.html
:jet:


----------



## Najee

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Luke said:


> Why did he sign that one year extension? He's just making himself look like an even bigger fool at this point.


Just as importantly, Dwight Howard clearly has showed he is more interested in being in the spotlight and having his behind kissed than winning. If he really cared more about winning than feeding his ego he wouldn't have balked at the notion of joining the Lakers or Bulls. And he certainly wouldn't be so dead set on joining a team that hasn't won more than 34 games in half a decade just because it's in a major media market. Even if they do get Howard and Deron Williams (doubtful) they'll have to gut the already thin talent base they have to broker the trade. So they'll have Williams and Howard and . . . nothing much else. Good luck with that.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



> Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard
> Sources: The Nets & Magic are discussing a trade that would send Dwight Howard to Brooklyn for Briik Lopez, Kris Humphies, Marshon Brooks...(con't) and the Nets' first-round picks in 2012, 2014, 2016 & 2018....move would give Nets Big 3 of D-Will, Dwight & Joe Johnson





> Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard
> Scratch Nets 2012 pick from potential trade


..


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



> Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard
> Correction: Nets' picks that would be traded to Orlando would be 2013, 2015 and 2017, source says....


..


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI
In a potential deal with Orlando, source says Nets would be willing to take back Hedo Turkoglu

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI
Those asking how Nets can afford this: Can exceed the cap to re-sign Lopez and Humphries (Bird rights) and then flip them for Dwight/Hedo


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Prokorov has been waiting for this summer since he first took over this team. What a windfall this would be.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

D Will, JJ, Crash, Bosnian, Howard with Hedo off da bench.

Billy King says


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Who's Bosnian?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

He's _a_ Bosnian. The Nets have a power forward coming over from Europe, I believe.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Floods said:


> Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI
> In a potential deal with Orlando, source says Nets would be willing to take back Hedo Turkoglu
> 
> Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI
> Those asking how Nets can afford this: Can exceed the cap to re-sign Lopez and Humphries (Bird rights) and then flip them for Dwight/Hedo


Except that the BYC rules are going to kick in with Brooke Shields, so I'm still not sure how they manage this.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

They're saying that Brooklyn will have to find a third team.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

As it turns out the source for the rumour is Dwight himself, probably thinking that this will help get him sent to Brooklyn. And, if you think about it, Pouffy Lopez and Kris Kardashian will need to be dumped on other teams because the Magic can't take the Lopez deal (because it males the trade too tough) and don't want the second ugliest Kardashian sister. So what the hell would they be trading Dwight for? No cap relief, MarShon Brooks and spare parts. They'd be much better off with Horford & Teague for Dwight, which is what I think will end up happening.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



PauloCatarino said:


> Kobe and Dwight won't win a title, that's for certain, unless the Lakers have another scorer on the team (and i don't think Pau is the man to do it).
> UNLESS Dwight comits (sp?) to stay in LA, no deal should be made regarding Bynum/etc. for Howard.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, actually, Bynum and Howard have something in common (sp?): they can't be trusted to carry the offense. Dwight, obviously, is a much better defender, but i don't think he can be called a "franchise-center", considering he needs (pretty badly, in fact) teammates who will compensate his lack of offense (particularly in the playoffs).


Kobe with Howard and Pau in the front court is easily the favorite outside of Miami to win the title in my books.


Pau gets disgustingly underrated on this forum.

You put him on the majority of NBA teams and hes their best big man. That includes my Indiana Pacers.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



PauloCatarino said:


> No.
> Bynum doesn't have the heart for it (even if he had the tools).


I would be inclined to agree with you, but honestly at this point, I can't say I do. Not saying you're wrong or anything, but there's been so many surprises from different players these past few years that Bynum suddenly becoming the best center in the NBA wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

What is keeping Atlanta or Dallas from blocking a potential trade Dwight trade by tendering Brook Lopez an offer sheet similar to how Toronto played New York w/ the Fields offer? Both those teams would need a center anyway.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



kbdullah said:


> What is keeping Atlanta or Dallas from blocking a potential trade Dwight trade by tendering Brook Lopez an offer sheet similar to how Toronto played New York w/ the Fields offer? Both those teams would need a center anyway.


Just thought the same thing. This could be a dick head precedence Toronto just created.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Is Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, 3x Nets 1st rounders enough to get the deal done? If so, I get the Nets trade now.

Deron
JJ
G-Force
Who cares
Dwight

Is a pretty damn interesting starting 5.


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Wade County said:


> *Is Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, 3x Nets 1st rounders enough to get the deal done? *If so, I get the Nets trade now.
> 
> Deron
> JJ
> G-Force
> Who cares
> Dwight
> 
> Is a pretty damn interesting starting 5.



IMO that's a brutal deal for Orlando. Practically a donation. Those 1st rounders will all be extremely late picks when the Nets are winning 60 games a year. Don't think there's any chance that goes through.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Doesn't sound like a great deal to me either, but looks better than Horford and Teague!


----------



## ATLien

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

If that trade goes down, and the Magic happen to win the lottery again I'll probably scream like a little girl. :laugh:


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



kbdullah said:


> What is keeping Atlanta or Dallas from blocking a potential trade Dwight trade by tendering Brook Lopez an offer sheet similar to how Toronto played New York w/ the Fields offer? Both those teams would need a center anyway.


cap space


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

huh? both those teams have the cap to do that


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



MojoPin said:


> If Bynum isn't going to be elite enough to build around, then why not trade him for a one-year Dwight rental? You would have a better chance of winning a championship next year and it's not like Kobe has much left, at least as a top player. Win a title, be bad for a couple years, draft a new team, and sign free-agents with the new cap space. I'd only consider it if it was Bynum for Howard straight up or something else limited like that, though.


You are ****ing kidding right? Trade Bynum for a one-year rental of Dwightmare? That ****ing head case? The one who won't even be available until December or January???

Man, I thought Laker fans all thought that they can "convince" Dwightmare to stay after showing them the great wonders of playing for the Lakers, and that they were deluding themselves. But I stand corrected. Seems we have some fans who actually think this is a GOOD IDEA. Oh my ****ing God.

Just to be on the record here: I am more willing to take my chances on Bynum finally growing up and making an effort EVERY night, in the future, then I am willing to chance having Dwightmare come here for any time at all. The bottom line is still this ****ing clown would cause a shitstorm in the locker room for the short time he was here, just as he did in Orlando. For this you give up a legitimate big for God knows how many years that he would make an impact in this league.

Man, some of you guys are not only delusional, but off your rocker. No offense intended, JMO. **** me.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Ron said:


> You are ****ing kidding right? Trade Bynum for a one-year rental of Dwightmare? That ****ing head case? The one who won't even be available until December or January???
> 
> Man, I thought Laker fans all thought that they can "convince" Dwightmare to stay after showing them the great wonders of playing for the Lakers, and that they were deluding themselves. But I stand corrected. Seems we have some fans who actually think this is a GOOD IDEA. Oh my ****ing God.
> 
> Just to be on the record here: I am more willing to take my chances on Bynum finally growing up and making an effort EVERY night, in the future, then I am willing to chance having Dwightmare come here for any time at all. The bottom line is still this ****ing clown would cause a shitstorm in the locker room for the short time he was here, just as he did in Orlando. For this you give up a legitimate big for God knows how many years that he would make an impact in this league.
> 
> Man, some of you guys are not only delusional, but off your rocker. No offense intended, JMO. **** me.


I don't understand how you can call Dwight out so much for being crazy and a cancer, and spend 2 seasons coming up with excuses for Bynum, who is widely known as team cancer and a general piece of trash.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Ron said:


> You are ****ing kidding right? Trade Bynum for a one-year rental of Dwightmare? That ****ing head case? The one who won't even be available until December or January???
> 
> Man, I thought Laker fans all thought that they can "convince" Dwightmare to stay after showing them the great wonders of playing for the Lakers, and that they were deluding themselves. But I stand corrected. Seems we have some fans who actually think this is a GOOD IDEA. Oh my ****ing God.
> 
> Just to be on the record here: I am more willing to take my chances on Bynum finally growing up and making an effort EVERY night, in the future, then I am willing to chance having Dwightmare come here for any time at all. The bottom line is still this ****ing clown would cause a shitstorm in the locker room for the short time he was here, just as he did in Orlando. For this you give up a legitimate big for God knows how many years that he would make an impact in this league.
> 
> Man, some of you guys are not only delusional, but off your rocker. No offense intended, JMO. **** me.


but if the lakers don't trade away all their players, they won't be able to bottom the team out, tank every season, and hope they get lucky multiple years in a row to become a competitive team again. because that's the best way to rebuild any non championship team.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Dwight is signing with whoever has his Bird rights. As a Laker fan I'm not worried at all that he would leave after 1 year.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Dwight is signing with whoever has his Bird rights. As a Laker fan I'm not worried at all that he would leave after 1 year.


Yea. He's shown to be both mentally stable, and predictable...


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Ron said:


> You are ****ing kidding right? Trade Bynum for a one-year rental of Dwightmare? That ****ing head case? The one who won't even be available until December or January???
> 
> Man, I thought Laker fans all thought that they can "convince" Dwightmare to stay after showing them the great wonders of playing for the Lakers, and that they were deluding themselves. But I stand corrected. Seems we have some fans who actually think this is a GOOD IDEA. Oh my ****ing God.
> 
> Just to be on the record here: I am more willing to take my chances on Bynum finally growing up and making an effort EVERY night, in the future, then I am willing to chance having Dwightmare come here for any time at all. The bottom line is still this ****ing clown would cause a shitstorm in the locker room for the short time he was here, just as he did in Orlando. For this you give up a legitimate big for God knows how many years that he would make an impact in this league.
> 
> Man, some of you guys are not only delusional, but off your rocker. No offense intended, JMO. **** me.


Someone has a different view... Oh my the sky is falling in Lakerland. We have two years of competition left, two years being generous. After Kobe is gone, we will be bad until we find our next core. Bynum may or may not be a franchise player. If I'm Buss, I do everything possible to win one more championship while Kobe is here. And yes, that means considering every move, no matter the risks. It's not like LAL has many options with their cap situation.

I defend Bynum all the time, but I doubt he is a guy who can lead you to a championship. Maybe they'll be able to sign a big name FA when Kobe and Gasol expire, but that's still a long ways off. As is, Bynum will not be able to lead as a first option.


----------



## Madstrike

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

everyone knows dwights been moaning about going to the nets, Im just trying to figure out how a 3/4 team deal would make it work....


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Not even Dwight Howard is crazy enough to turn down a 6 year maximum contract extension from the Los Angeles Lakers. I'd trade Bynum for him in heart beat and go all in for a title the next 2-3 years.


----------



## British_Baller

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Thought Howard said he had no intention/desire of going to LA?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Damnit Orlando just give in already. Give Dwight what he wants.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

They both got people himming and hawwing makes no sense to just trade them for each other


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

That Woj guy sure is an insider....


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



> WojYahooNBA Dallas and *Cleveland* are among teams with cap space that would interest Bynum in 2013 as a free agent, sources tell Y!


:yesyesyes:


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> That Woj guy sure is an insider....


I think Ron is his inside source


----------



## Diable

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/k...ast-three-first-round-picks-for-dwight-howard

Take this for what it's worth. Personally I don't know why Cleveland should do this unless they end up with Orlando's unprotected first round pick. Humphries is going to cost too much to sign and doesn't figure to be a big factor for them going forward.




> The Nets are progressing with plans to recruit a third team to absorb salary in a blockbuster trade proposal that would send Dwight Howard to Brooklyn, league sources told CBSSports.com Sunday.
> A key component of the proposed deal with Orlando would be finding a third team to take the Nets' Kris Humphries in a sign-and-trade arrangement. Cleveland has emerged as a “possible destination” for Humphries in such a scenario, in which the Nets would attempt to accumulate at least three first-round picks to send to the Magic in their package for Howard, one of the sources said.
> The Cavs have as many as six first-round picks in the next three drafts -- three of them from previous trades, with various levels of protection. However, with cap space to sign Humphries as a free agent, getting Humphries alone wouldn't provide any incentive for Cleveland to surrender one of those picks.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



e-monk said:


> I think Ron is his inside source


Ha ha, in before the hate.

Bottom line is you can see this coming. Bynum is fed up with being talked about 24/7 as a trade chip and I don't blame him. He's one of the top two centers in the league and he has finally put his foot down. Good for him.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Ron said:


> Ha ha, in before the hate.
> 
> Bottom line is you can see this coming. Bynum is fed up with being talked about 24/7 as a trade chip and I don't blame him. He's one of the top two centers in the league and he has finally put his foot down. Good for him.


Saying one of the top 2 means you could argue him as the number 1. You couldn't. 

Hes the 2nd best center in the league. For now. I'd still rather have Hibbert on my team.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Diable said:


> http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/k...ast-three-first-round-picks-for-dwight-howard
> 
> Take this for what it's worth. Personally I don't know why Cleveland should do this unless they end up with Orlando's unprotected first round pick. Humphries is going to cost too much to sign and doesn't figure to be a big factor for them going forward.


Yea, the Magic are going to trade their unprotected 1st round pick while blowing up their team just so that Dwight Howard can go where he wants. That makes a lot of sense.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



hobojoe said:


> Yea, the Magic are going to trade their unprotected 1st round pick while blowing up their team just so that Dwight Howard can go where he wants. That makes a lot of sense.


Makes sense. Kind of a "Thanks for all the hard work Dwight" send off gift for him.

Its what any classy organization would do. And just a few months ago according to everyone here the Magic had to do whatever Dwight said, so they better do it.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



hobojoe said:


> Yea, the Magic are going to trade their unprotected 1st round pick while blowing up their team just so that Dwight Howard can go where he wants. That makes a lot of sense.


I didn't say it made sense for Orlando. I said that's what makes sense for Cleveland. No damned reason they should take Humphries just to make this trade happen and a heavily protected or late first round pick is not enough. 

I don't see this as a realistic possibility at any rate. Lopez is going to get a big contract and Orlando is going to have to accept him and lots of late first rounders, then you have to pay off Cleveland to do something which is hardly in their interest. Who wants Lopez if you have to pay him 50 million or anything close to it.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Diable said:


> I didn't say it made sense for Orlando. I said that's what makes sense for Cleveland. No damned reason they should take Humphries just to make this trade happen and a heavily protected or late first round pick is not enough.
> 
> I don't see this as a realistic possibility at any rate. Lopez is going to get a big contract and Orlando is going to have to accept him and lots of late first rounders, then you have to pay off Cleveland to do something which is hardly in their interest. Who wants Lopez if you have to pay him 50 million or anything close to it.


If that's the case though, why does Orlando do this?

If it doesn't make sense for Cleveland, and doesn't make sense for Orlando, then...........


A trade isn't going to happen just to placate Dwight Howard.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Not sure how this 3-way would work. Cleveland wants a first, but Nets supposedly need to send three firsts to Orlando. How Brooklyn is going to find four first rounds to placate the situation is beyond me. I thought they were supposed to be liquidating Kris Humphries into a first, not entertaining another team with its hand out. At this rate, Dwight ends up in Houston.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

I'm sure that Dan Gilbert can be had somehow


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

The Magic, Nets and Cavaliers are near completion on a trade centered around Dwight Howard, according to sources that spoke with RealGM's Jarrod Rudolph.

The currently proposed deal will include 11 players, cash and multiple draft picks.

Orlando plans to talk to other teams before signing off on the trade of Howard to Brooklyn, according to sources.

Cleveland will help facilitate the trade by taking Kris Humphries in a sign-and-trade while receiving additional compensation.

The Magic will receive Brook Lopez via sign-and-trade, along with multiple first round picks.

Via Jarrod Rudolph/RealGM


----------



## Maravilla

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

boom. big 3


----------



## Diable

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

I don't know who Jarrod Manning is supposed to be, but it looks like he just smoked a fatty in his twitter picture. Maybe he heard this one from Sheed or Zbo


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

According to RealGM?

Inside sources going to break shit on RealGM?

Yea.....

I don't see this panning out either, but we'll see. This soap opera has to end at some point I guess.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*

Suuuure....



































Make me look stupid so we can wrap this up please


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Diable said:


> I don't know who Jarrod Manning is supposed to be, but it looks like he just smoked a fatty in his twitter picture


Jarrod Rudolph bro. 

Extremely important RealGM writer who gets interviews first with all the big "insiders".

Click on RealGM if you'd like to read more...


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Magic weighing trade offers for Dwight Howard*



Dre said:


> Suuuure....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make me look stupid so we can wrap this up please


Agreed. 

I always make fun of my wife for watching Entertainment Tonight and TMZ. If she only knew she could turn it around on me with stuff like this.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Damian Necronamous said:


> He and Glen Davis will make for a hilarious frontline, though.
> 
> I'm thinking the Magic will win their 3rd lottery in 2013.


That's how it works isn't it.

Cavs lose Lebron, win lottery.

Hornets lose Paul, win lottery.

Magic lose Dwight?


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Magic have to wait. Suns lose Nash, win lotto haha.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Dissonance said:


> Magic have to wait. Suns lose Nash, win lotto haha.


Not with the trades they're making. They aren't a playoff team, but they're not a terrible team either I don't think.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

I can't believe the Nets are content w/ Lopez and a bunch of late picks. They aren't even going to get MarShon in this latest trade iteration, and wouldn't be dumping any contracts either. And Lopez missed 90% of last season and you're signing him to a long-term deal.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Can Dallas PLEASE just come out of nowhere, sign Humphries and F this whole thing up?.


All they need to do is tender an offer of greater than 5.1 million to Lopez to torpedo the whole thing. I'm actually surprised that Morey hasn't done just that in order to mix up the works.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Doesn't Lopez have to sign the sheet for it to matter?


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Now when I say that I'm a Nets fan, everyone will automatically assume I am a bandwagoner. :laugh:


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Just read that teams other than Cavaliers also interested in Humphries. If they are over the cap, Magic might be able to keep MarShon, as Cavaliers only have leverage to take him b/c they could sign Humphries anyway.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



E.H. Munro said:


> All they need to do is tender an offer of greater than 5.1 million to Lopez to torpedo the whole thing. I'm actually surprised that Morey hasn't done just that in order to mix up the works.


Why would Lopez sign an offer sheet for that when he'll get the max in a S&T or at least close to it if he stays.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

still not sure what the Cavs signing Humphries has to do with anything especially since it appears that they expect to recieve additional compensation for doing it?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Why would any team sign Lopez for close to max when he only played 5 games last season? And are the Magic willing to outbid any team w/ interest in him? That is still to be seen.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



e-monk said:


> still not sure what the Cavs signing Humphries has to do with anything especially since it appears that they expect to recieve additional compensation for doing it?


That's actually a good point. I thought Humphries was in the trade originally b/c the Magic wanted him, but it seems they don't anymore, so why would they pay another team to take him. Do they need him to match salaries?


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

I think they have to sign-and-trade Humphries to make salaries match. Does anyone know what Humphries should make versus how they have to sign him for to make this trade work?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

And it begins to unravel. :laugh: Of course it does. :sigh:

Per Twitter:



> Marc J. Spears ‏@SpearsNBAYahoo
> 
> Possible complication in Dwight 3way deal is Nets FA Kris Humphries would seek 4yr deal with CLE and wouldn't sign 1yr pact, sources tell Y!


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Well, they gave Humphries a ridiculous amount of leverage by building the whole Dwight Howard blockbuster on his willingness to sign a contract that facilitates it. Kris can basically write his own contract here.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



goodfoot said:


> I think they have to sign-and-trade Humphries to make salaries match. Does anyone know what Humphries should make versus how they have to sign him for to make this trade work?


is he even on anyone's books?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

lmao at someone thinking Humphries was going to go for a 1-year deal. It's like the superstar agents don't believe that other players have their own interests. He's a solid 13pt 11 reb guy and deserves at least 3 years.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

I'm sure they'll be able to work something out with Humphries. I'm far more concerned about Orlando backing out of trade talks.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

How do you 'work something out'? Are you going to give him a 1-year deal that's worth the equivalent of three years? Like a one-year max offer? Cleveland or a team w/ a trade exception would have to agree. He's a free agent and Nets don't have leverage. And he's actually asking for four years. I just happen to think he's worth three.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Im being obtuse or something I know but how is Humphries, who is a UFA and so not on anyone's books a part of this? are they just looking for a TPE? I'lll step up - Cleveland can sign me for 1 year for whatever millions they need to get this done and we can make this trade happen


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Luke Walton still in the league lol


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Orlando is retarded if they do that deal. I'd be after Horford if ATL is serious about gambling.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Where would MarShon and Kris end up, Cleveland?


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

You have to remember Luke Walton is a two-time champion. That's enough to get Dwight, for sure.


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

In the proposed deal, Howard, Jason Richardson and Earl Clark would be sent to Brooklyn, and the Magic would receive the Nets' Brook Lopez, Damion James, Sheldon Williams, Cleveland's Luke Walton and three future first-round picks, sources said. Cleveland would receive Orlando's Quentin Richardson, Brooklyn's Sundiata Gaines, Kris Humphries (on a one-year guaranteed deal), a first-round pick and $3 million from the Nets. Brooklyn also would send Brooks to a fourth team to get them an additional first-round pick to send to the Magic.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Players like Brook Lopez getting maxed is exactly wtf is wrong with the NBA... Lockout didn't fix shit.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Players like Brook Lopez getting maxed is exactly wtf is wrong with the NBA... Lockout didn't fix shit.


I don't really see anything wrong with the NBA.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

This just sounds like the details of the proposed trade that Kris Humphries through a dent into by saying he wouldn't do a 1-year deal. And still no details on the Brook Lopez contract proposal.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Humphries and Dwight have the same agent FWIW.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Eh? Mono only lasts for about 4-8 weeks.


It can take 6 months to fully recover. I lost 25 pounds when I had it


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Humphries and Dwight have the same agent FWIW.


That explains a lot. Dan Fegan, I assume. I was wondering why there was no movement on the Humphries front this whole offseason. That is a huge conflict of interest as Fegan would need Humphries to sign a 1-year deal, yet Humphries himself wants three or four. Why would Humphries keep that agent if he asked you to do that?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Is it just me or is having Humphries around with his work ethic when it comes to crashing the glass only going to help Tristan Thompson?


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



> @JohnKrolik
> 
> Doctors: The main issue with Lopez's foot is that it's attached to a center who doesn't rebound or score very efficiently.


LMAO


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> It can take 6 months to fully recover. I lost 25 pounds when I had it


Won't argue against that. Never had it but mono does sound like a large pain in the ass.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> LMAO


BRILLIANT!!


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



> Just going up on ESPN. Clipoers will be 4th team in D Howard deal. They would take back MarShon Brooks in return for a lottery protected 1st


http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Trading MarShon Brooks for a Clippers lotto protected pick is a downgrade...


----------



## Ben

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

That's really good for the Clippers..


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

If they ended up getting Brooks it would make that Crawford signing even worse


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Is this done or more bs?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



kbdullah said:


> Trading MarShon Brooks for a Clippers lotto protected pick is a downgrade...


Not totally, Brooks is getting close to being a finished product, and as we saw in New Jersey he doesn't do anything important on a bad team. On a playoff squad that badly needs a competent 2? Sure, he's a big plus. With a protected first a rebuilding team can at least take a flier on a high-upside guy.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Why wouldn't the Clippers love to do that deal? I think that could spell the end of Randy Foye in LA.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Trade laid out



> According to sources the Nets would receive Howard, Jason Richardson, Chris Duhon and Earl Clark in the proposed deal. The Magic would get Brook Lopez in a sign-and-trade, Luke Walton, Damion James, Shelden Williams, Armon Johnson and three first-round picks -- two from the Nets and a lottery protected first from the Clippers. The Cavs would get Kris Humphries in a sign-and-trade, Quentin Richardson, Sundiata Gaines, a first-round pick from the Nets and $3 million. The Clippers would receive MarShon Brooks.


http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/sto...th-team-possibly-complete-dwight-howard-trade


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Dissonance said:


> Trade laid out
> 
> 
> 
> http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/sto...th-team-possibly-complete-dwight-howard-trade


Good enough for me, just get that ****er Luke Walton off of our roster.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Pathetic get for D12.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Great news for a clipper fan! Want convinced with Crawford


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



RollWithEm said:


> Why wouldn't the Clippers love to do that deal? I think that could spell the end of Randy Foye in LA.


Randy foye not coming back is a good thing!


----------



## Ben

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

I'm trying to figure out whether I would rather let Dwight leave for nothing than have a few shitty picks and Brook Lopez (and his contract).


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

So Humphries is really doing a one-year deal?


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



goodfoot said:


> So Humphries is really doing a one-year deal?


No, three year deal only year 1 guaranteed.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Bogg said:


> Not totally, Brooks is getting close to being a finished product, and as we saw in New Jersey he doesn't do anything important on a bad team. On a playoff squad that badly needs a competent 2? Sure, he's a big plus. With a protected first a rebuilding team can at least take a flier on a high-upside guy.


Isn't MarShon Brooks already a high-upside guy? You already know MarShon has potential. Why trade for an unknown, that will probably end up at a later pick than when Marshon was drafted? I suppose Cavaliers don't want to crowd their SG position w/ Dion Waiters, but they shouldn't have made that pick anyway...


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Knicks4life said:


> No, three year deal only year 1 guaranteed.


Dumb move for Humphries is he takes that. That's basically a one-year deal.


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Ben said:


> I'm trying to figure out whether I would rather let Dwight leave for nothing than have a few shitty picks and Brook Lopez (and his contract).


I would let him walk before I took on all that crap.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

So first you need to sign Lopez and then you need to get Humphries to agree to a one year deal (in essence) and then you have to get Orlando and Cleveland and the Clippers to all stay on the same page. This shit could happen, but it seems like a lot of things could go wrong.

Orlando should be able to get a better deal than this.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

This is not a good deal for Orlando, but as a basketball fan who loves storylines, I cannot wait to see the Nets go from a 22-win team to a championship contender in one offseason... on Billy King's watch!


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Im a Brooks fan, but im not exactly sure I get what we (Clippers) are doing here. We are going to have the same problem we had last year, overload at SG. Instead of Foye, Billups/Young, Mo we now have Billups, Crawford, Brooks. Are we really going to go with a 3 guard lineup off the bench again?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Clippers Depth*



TucsonClip said:


> Im a Brooks fan, but im not exactly sure I get what we (Clippers) are doing here. We are going to have the same problem we had last year, overload at SG. Instead of Foye, Billups/Young, Mo we now have Billups, Crawford, Brooks. Are we really going to go with a 3 guard lineup off the bench again?


Wouldn't the expected Clippers guard rotation look like this?

PG CP3/Crawford/Bledsoe
SG Billups/Crawford/Brooks

That's a legit 5-guard group right there. What's wrong with having depth? If Odom is healthy and motivated, he'll play most of the bench minutes at the 3 and 4 positions. Then, you still have Gomes backing him up with the potential to bring back Kenyon Martin and possibly still add Camby and/or another min level center like Ryan Hollins, Tony Battie, or Nazr Mohammed. The Clippers are getting deeper every day.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

We desperately needed a future Sg ever since Gordon was traded last year. Crawford was a nice pickup but he was just temporary fix. I haven't much of Brooks game but from what I hear he's a huge Kobe fan and gets compared to him which is a good thing. Under Paul tutelage Brooks can be an all star


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Im a Brooks fan, but im not exactly sure I get what we (Clippers) are doing here. We are going to have the same problem we had last year, overload at SG. Instead of Foye, Billups/Young, Mo we now have Billups, Crawford, Brooks. Are we really going to go with a 3 guard lineup off the bench again?


Sounds like one of them good problems - the wire


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



> @ChrisMannixSI: To be clear, I'm told Kris Humphries is only interested in multi-year GUARANTEED deal.


...


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Ben said:


> I'm trying to figure out whether I would rather let Dwight leave for nothing than have a few shitty picks and Brook Lopez (and his contract).


I wouldn't even think about it.

I don't know how ATL wasn't their first call. If they said, no, let him walk.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> ...


Hopefully, falls apart haha.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



NOFX22 said:


> We desperately needed a future Sg ever since Gordon was traded last year. Crawford was a nice pickup but he was just temporary fix. I haven't much of Brooks game but from what I hear he's a huge Kobe fan and gets compared to him which is a good thing. Under Paul tutelage Brooks can be an all star


plus 36 year olds coming back from season ending achilles injuries (and playing out of position) are not exactly money in the bank


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



e-monk said:


> plus 36 year olds coming back from season ending achilles injuries (and playing out of position) are not exactly money in the bank


Exactly. Brooks could wind up being the starter on this team by the time the playoffs roll around.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Ben said:


> I'm trying to figure out whether I would rather let Dwight leave for nothing than have a few shitty picks and Brook Lopez (and his contract).


I would rather him go for nothing.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

There has to be a better deal for Orlando than this. I'd rather trade him straight up for Noah and filler than take this deal. Hell I'd rather trade him some place for spite than take this deal. Send his ass to ****ing Canada for Bargnani and some musk ox steaks


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

I would rather trade him for Bynum and dare Bynum to leave 25mil on the table next year than take that crap...


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Clippers Depth*



RollWithEm said:


> Wouldn't the expected Clippers guard rotation look like this?
> 
> PG CP3/Crawford/Bledsoe
> SG Billups/Crawford/Brooks
> 
> That's a legit 5-guard group right there. What's wrong with having depth? If Odom is healthy and motivated, he'll play most of the bench minutes at the 3 and 4 positions. Then, you still have Gomes backing him up with the potential to bring back Kenyon Martin and possibly still add Camby and/or another min level center like Ryan Hollins, Tony Battie, or Nazr Mohammed. The Clippers are getting deeper every day.


Yeah its a great 5 guard rotation with no time for guys like Brooks or Bledsoe once Billups comes back, unless Crawford/Brooks plays SF. Clipper fans were expecting to see more of Bledsoe on the floor this year, considering how well he played next to CP3 and off the bench as the PG. I just dont see the point of splitting 86 minutes 5 ways at the guard position again this year other than to protect against Billups getting hurt again. 

Either way, a Crawford/Brooks combination seems like pure duplication in what they provide. We desperately needed a SF who could defend last year and still do.

Im not gonna complain over picking up Brooks (perimeter scoring is a must with Blake, DJ, and CP3), but I dont exactly see it as an area of need, compared to back up C and SF.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Honestly, I don't care what the Magic get. Just end this already. I'm already getting sick of hearing about trade options involving Dwight Howard!


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I would rather trade him for Bynum and dare Bynum to leave 25mil on the table next year than take that crap...


I wouldnt sweat Bynum not signing an extension as he stands to make more becoming an FA and qualifying for the full term of a maxed out contract - at the end of the day they can still work an S&T if all else fails and wind up doing better than Lopez + crap next summer


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

If this deal is close to happening, the Lakers must not want to take on extra salary.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

just Bynum would be better than what they're getting


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

I agree, but do the Magic?

It almost seems like this is just a ploy by the Magic to get someone to top the Nets offer.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



> Just spoke to a league source with intimate knowledge of these trade talks. Ignore the noise, folks. Lot of misinformation out there. Nothing is close to getting done, at least from #Cavs perspective.


-Jason Lloyd

http://sulia.com/channel/cleveland-cavaliers/f/66629135-c2a9-469c-acd0-28af8cd25dfe/?source=twitter


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Anyway you look at this, its a terrible deal for Orlando.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

i dont get why the magic dont want Marshon Brooks instead of a crappy pick in the late 20s(or is it a salary cap issue?)


----------



## doctordrizzay

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

There is some pretty below average players being involved in this. "luke walton" cough cough


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



doctordrizzay said:


> There is some pretty below average players being involved in this. "luke walton" cough cough


Cap Reasons


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



e-monk said:


> just Bynum would be better than what they're getting


Lakers are holding up the Dwight deal, not the Magic. And Bynum wouldn't sign an extension, so potentially both teams would get screwed.


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

I have to think this is a leverage move by the Magic. All of this is out in the open in the twitter universe and the media, but pulling the trigger on this deal is the type of the move that gets you fired. Orlando might as well contract their team. Feels more like an attempt to get LA, HOU or anyone else to start taking a bad contract or two on top of their initial offers.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Yeah Brooklyn is offering to trade all these guys and none of them are under contract. They'd have to sign Gaines, Shelden Williams, Armon Johnson, Lopez, Humphries and Damion James before they could make this trade. And of course the Magic don't really want any of those guys.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Two more days. This talk is very tiresome because there really isn't anything going on.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



kbdullah said:


> Isn't MarShon Brooks already a high-upside guy? You already know MarShon has potential. Why trade for an unknown, that will probably end up at a later pick than when Marshon was drafted? I suppose Cavaliers don't want to crowd their SG position w/ Dion Waiters, but they shouldn't have made that pick anyway...


Brooks is going to turn 24 in the middle of next season and is limited athletically. He's going to have a fine career, and I wish the C's had held onto him, but at his absolute peak I don't think he's a guy you ever want to count on for more than 15 ppg. He's very skilled offensively, but I don't think he has the tools to go the Paul Pierce route of below the rim/midrange stardom from the wing.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Everything that's being leaked out right now is coming from Brooklyn's end to try and accelerate the perception that this is going to happen. 

Still no clue on Humphries and Lopez contracts. Fegan is saying Humphries wants multiple guaranteed years, disputing what Cleveland wants.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

Orlando should hold onto Dwight for a few months and then amnesty him after everyone uses their cap space.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



kbdullah said:


> Lakers are holding up the Dwight deal, not the Magic. And Bynum wouldn't sign an extension, so potentially both teams would get screwed.


my understanding is that it's better for the player to re-sign as a FA where he can land a maxed out contract with an additional year (rather than extending an existing contract) - the Magic would still have the leverage of that extra year and maxed money and could probably get as much as they are purportedly getting now if they did have to do an S&T down the road anyway

as far as the Lakers holding up the deal that's probably what this is all about - they dont want to take back trash contracts and the Magic are trying to get them to up the ante - I dont think Mitch should blink on this - let them have Lopez and crap


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*

This is really going to test me as a fan of the Magic if it goes down. Just an atrocious deal. Brook ****ing Lopez and shitty picks? I'd rather let him walk next year.


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



e-monk said:


> my understanding is that it's better for the player to re-sign as a FA where he can land a maxed out contract with an additional year (rather than extending an existing contract) - the Magic would still have the leverage of that extra year and maxed money and could probably get as much as they are purportedly getting now if they did have to do an S&T down the road anyway
> 
> as far as the Lakers holding up the deal that's probably what this is all about - they dont want to take back trash contracts and the Magic are trying to get them to up the ante - I dont think Mitch should blink on this - let them have Lopez and crap


This is what I'm thinking. Orlando probably wants Kupchak to take back Turkoglu in the deal and have leaked out this 4-team extravaganza into the media as an attempt to get LA to bite. I don't think Kupchak blinks. While having Howard would be a great upgrade for LA, they're not desperate for it. They could go into this year with Bynum at C and be just fine.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

Yeah but Dwight doesn't want to play in Los Angeles, thats why Los Angeles isn't progressing any talks. They aren't going to gamble.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



kbdullah said:


> Yeah but Dwight doesn't want to play in Los Angeles, thats why Los Angeles isn't progressing any talks. They aren't going to gamble.


we already did this but ok

Dwight you cant go to brooklyn as a free agent next summer because they are capped out so your choices are

1) stay here in LA and contend for a title while enjoying a maxed contract with an extra guaranteed year

or

2) go to crappy team x that has plenty of space but no chance at contention and make less money guaranteed over less time


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

Yeah I'm aware but you made it sound as if only the Magic would be gambling.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Im a Brooks fan, but im not exactly sure I get what we (Clippers) are doing here. We are going to have the same problem we had last year, overload at SG. Instead of Foye, Billups/Young, Mo we now have Billups, Crawford, Brooks. Are we really going to go with a 3 guard lineup off the bench again?


Who knows what Billups is going to look like next year, I'm not sure he's a lock to be a starter at this point. At the very least, I doubt he plays 36 minutes or anything. He played 30 minutes a night last season and shot 36% from the field.

I really like this deal for the Clippers.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

Im just not that huge a fan of the 3 guard lineup without one of the guys having size. Vinny loves the 3 guard offense off the bench, but with no rebounding or a wing defender its going to be ugly at times (just like this season).


----------



## Cris

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

What a god awful deal.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

:lol: at the thread title.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

Just saw the proposed deal on ESPN. What a pile of shit that deal is. I can't see why Orlando is doing it. 


I doubt this happens.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> :lol: at the thread title.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

Why the **** did you just sign Jameer Nelson to a 3 year deal if you're going to blow the team up and take back expiring contracts as "assets"? I've defended a lot of moves the Magic made in the past, but there's no defending this stupid shit if it happens.


----------



## GNG

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential blockbuster for Dwight Howard*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> -Jason Lloyd
> 
> http://sulia.com/channel/cleveland-cavaliers/f/66629135-c2a9-469c-acd0-28af8cd25dfe/?source=twitter


Jason Lloyd is most likely going to be wrong. No way Howard isn't a Net soon.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

I don't understand how they're going to just put this man Humphries in it when his agent hasn't even talked to Cleveland yet and isn't about to sign for *another* 1 year deal. 

People are so eager to see this thing resolved they just ignore the logistics of the ancillary pieces


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

If Orlando really wants to blow it up, Houston makes some sense. They have plenty of expiring contracts, young players and draft picks.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

Why is Dan Fegan still Kris Humphries' agent? I mean, when your agent is suggesting you take second straight 1 year contract so his star client can get his wish and be sent to BK, I think its time for new management.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



Dre said:


> I don't understand how they're going to just put this man Humphries in it when his agent hasn't even talked to Cleveland yet and isn't about to sign for *another* 1 year deal.
> 
> People are so eager to see this thing resolved they just ignore the logistics of the ancillary pieces


I'm pretty sure Orlando's front office keeps having to say "What? We're doing that? I don't want to do that. I didn't agree to that!" and Humphries agent is calling ever 5 minutes saying "I thought you guys didn't agree to this shit! Because Woj just said its pretty much a done deal!"


****ing media.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Why is Dan Fegan still Kris Humphries' agent? I mean, when your agent is suggesting you take second straight 1 year contract so his star client can get his wish and be sent to BK, I think its time for new management.


Didn't know that. I'd fire that ****er on the spot.

Humphries should be looking for as long a deal as possible. Not like hes going to blow up next year and hit the jackpot. Hes never going to get more than he's worth this offseason. Cash in. And show how much his Orlando teammates hate him by ****ing the deal for Dwight in the process.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Why is Dan Fegan still Kris Humphries' agent? I mean, when your agent is suggesting you take second straight 1 year contract so his star client can get his wish and be sent to BK, I think its time for new management.


yeah I was going to mention this - if any part of the 1 year deal talk is true (dubious) this agent has some real (and possibly litigable) conflict issues


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

David Stern should exercise his veto power keep this shit from happening. I mean honestly, allow me to paraphrase Dan Gilbert -- when are they just going to rename 25 of the teams the Washington Generals?


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



e-monk said:


> yeah I was going to mention this - if any part of the 1 year deal talk is true (dubious) this agent has some real (and possibly litigable) conflict issues


Yeah, there have been so many tweets about this with Fegan as the source, who knows what is and what isnt.

We've had the, "1 year deal is not happening" to "he is suggesting Hump take the 3 year deal with options" and "he wont take anything less than 4 years". I find it hard to believe he hasnt suggested Hump take the contract with options, but I guess we will find out soon.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



hobojoe said:


> David Stern should exercise his veto power keep this shit from happening. I mean honestly, allow me to paraphrase Dan Gilbert -- when are they just going to rename 25 of the teams the Washington Generals?


Maybe Dan Gilbert should stop bitching about LeBron and the CP3 deal and not help the Nets form another super-team... I cant stand Gilbert.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Maybe Dan Gilbert should stop bitching about LeBron and the CP3 deal and not help the Nets form another super-team... I cant stand Gilbert.


Hes not going to. This is the Nets and Fegan trying to somehow push a deal through and bully everyone else by telling everyone in the media its pretty much a done deal.


If anyone's going to try to stick it to a prima dona superstar, its going to be Gilbert.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

Oh, and don't worry bro's. Deal isn't going through. I just took the liberty of tweeting Kris and telling him to get a new agent. It'll probably happen tomorrow. Hes busy at 5 guys in Rochester right now he said.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Hes not going to. This is the Nets and Fegan trying to somehow push a deal through and bully everyone else by telling everyone in the media its pretty much a done deal.
> 
> 
> If anyone's going to try to stick it to a prima dona superstar, its going to be Gilbert.


Everything ive read states that the Cavs want one of those 1sts and not Brooks, because Brooks wouldnt workout for them last year. 

Either way, if Gilbert were going against this trade, he wouldnt even let the Cavs be involved in any trade talks that help send Dwight to BK, which is the opposite of every report.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Everything ive read states that the Cavs want one of those 1sts and not Brooks, because Brooks wouldnt workout for them last year.
> 
> Either way, if Gilbert were going against this trade, he wouldnt even let the Cavs be involved in any trade talks that help send Dwight to BK, which is the opposite of every report.


Every media report. Who have all said Dwight's been traded like 10 times over the last year already.

They're all full of shit. And you all buy into it. Its how they make money.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Every media report. Who have all said Dwight's been traded like 10 times over the last year already.
> 
> They're all full of shit. And you all buy into it. Its how they make money.


Im not saying hes about to get traded, im saying that there is no way this has no legs to it. Im not sure there has been a trade reported as much as this one that didnt have some sort of truth to it. If so, its the greatest hoax in sports journalism history.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Im not saying hes about to get traded, im saying that there is no way this has no legs to it. Im not sure there has been a trade reported as much as this one that didnt have some sort of truth to it. If so, its the greatest hoax in sports journalism history.


The only truth to it is Dwight wants out, badly. That the Nets want Dwight, badly. And that Dwights agent wants this deal to go through, badly.


That still leaves the Magic and Cavs front offices out of the loop on this though.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Hes not going to. This is the Nets and Fegan trying to somehow push a deal through and bully everyone else by telling everyone in the media its pretty much a done deal.
> 
> 
> If anyone's going to try to stick it to a prima dona superstar, its going to be Gilbert.


except he's the same douche that went crying to the commisar about the Lakers getting out from under lux tax money and then took back Luke Walton in the sessions trade


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> The only truth to it is Dwight wants out, badly. That the Nets want Dwight, badly. And that Dwights agent wants this deal to go through, badly.
> 
> 
> That still leaves the Magic and Cavs front offices out of the loop on this though.


I highly doubt they are out of the loop. They might not agree to the terms that have been tossed around, but to say they are out of the loop is pretty silly.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



e-monk said:


> except he's the same douche that went crying to the commisar about the Lakers getting out from under lux tax money and then took back Luke Walton in the sessions trade


Exactly. This douche would rather make himself look bad by helping form another super-team than see LeBron win another title, which seems like a very plausable reason for the Cavs potentially being involved in this deal.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> I highly doubt they are out of the loop. They might not agree to the terms that have been tossed around, but to say they are out of the loop is pretty silly.


If they don't agree at all with the terms, and everyones reporting its pretty much a done deal, wouldn't that be "not in the loop"?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Exactly. This douche would rather make himself look bad by helping form another super-team than see LeBron win another title, which seems like a very plausable reason for the Cavs potentially being involved in this deal.


That's the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever heard.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

I was bored, so I thought I would draw this rather involved proposal in Visio.
.
.
.








.
.
.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*

If I'm being a dick right now its because there's a geologist beside me who won't shut up. At all. He's staring at me right now, babbling about some garbage. He won't shut up. ****ing driving me insane. I'm having to stop to say "Yep". "Ha ha". "Yep" everyone once in a while.


****. Shoot me in the face. He hasn't stopped talking in an hour, and although I'm sure he must get the hint I'm freezing him out, he doesn't care.

Time to play drums with his hands on the table. Yep. ****ing kill me now.

"So much for my waist line. I'm going to eat a cinamon bun. Ha ha. I've been saying that for 30 years. Do you think on of these days thats going to catch up with me?" ....... stares at R-Star waiting for reply....... stares........ "ha.... yea" R-Star, not looking away from computer screen.


****.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> So we won't expect Gilbert to talk about the trade, but we'll decide what his motives are and come up with conspiracy theories about how he's willing to ruin his own franchise to spite Lebron.
> 
> 
> You guys are absolutely ridiculous.


When did he ruin his own franchise to spite LeBron and when did anyone claim that he did?

Why would you expect any owner to talk about any sort of trade? I mean, I know its common practice for owners to discuss trades in the media, so let me go find a quote from Gilbert... :sarcasm:

Ill ask you directly then, since your only reposonse to either of us has been, "find a quote". 

Why would an owner who complains about his franchise value falling hundreds of millions over night (exactly what is about to happen in Orlando, just not as much money) help the same thing happen to another team?

Why would an owner who complained about the CBA and not having a franchise tag, help another player pull off something worse than LeBron (LeBron could have just signed with Miami)?

Why would an owner who complained to the league office about CP3 being dealt to the Lakers, help the Nets acquire Dwight via trade, despite not having any cap space?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> When did he ruin his own franchise to spite LeBron and when did anyone claim that he did?
> 
> Why would you expect any owner to talk about any sort of trade? I mean, I know its common practice for owners to discuss trades in the media, so let me go find a quote from Gilbert... :sarcasm:
> 
> Ill ask you directly then, since your only reposonse to either of us has been, "find a quote".
> 
> Why would an owner who complains about his franchise value falling hundreds of millions over night (exactly what is about to happen in Orlando, just not as much money) help the same thing happen to another team?
> 
> Why would an owner who complained about the CBA and not having a franchise tag, help another player pull off something worse than LeBron (LeBron could have just signed with Miami)?
> 
> Why would an owner who complained to the league office about CP3 being dealt to the Lakers, help the Nets acquire Dwight via trade, despite not having any cap space?


Uhhhhh......... I've been arguing that Gilbert would _not_ do this trade, so I'm not quite sure why you're asking me these questions.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Uhhhhh......... I've been arguing that Gilbert would _not_ do this trade, so I'm not quite sure why you're asking me these questions.





R-Star said:


> How does Gilbert saying the Cavs would win before Lebron and him screwing with the Sessions deal have anything at all with this deal?



You said that, but your only responses to us have been...

The media is making up the entire trade, the Cavs arent in the loop, that the dumbest thing ive heard, and find me a quote.

However, I forgot, this isnt a real trade being discussed anyway, its all a fantasy construced by dozens of media members.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



Ron said:


> I was bored, so I thought I would draw this rather involved proposal in Visio.
> .
> .
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> .


I mean that's great that the Magic get to unload Duhon and the Richardsons, but really they can't even get rid of Hedo? Considering the pile of shit they're getting in return, that's the least they could do. And again I ask, if you're using Dwight Howard as leverage to get rid of these shitty multi-year contracts for marginal players in their 30s, why did you just agree to a 3 year deal with Jameer Nelson last week? Makes no ****ing sense.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



hobojoe said:


> I mean that's great that the Magic get to unload Duhon and the Richardsons, but really they can't even get rid of Hedo? Considering the pile of shit they're getting in return, that's the least they could do. And again I ask, if you're using Dwight Howard as leverage to get rid of these shitty multi-year contracts for marginal players in their 30s, why did you just agree to a 3 year deal with Jameer Nelson last week? Makes no ****ing sense.


The Magic is a ship without a rudder right now.

I would blow the whole ****ing thing up and start over.


----------



## jayk009

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



E.H. Munro said:


> OK, here's my problem, and I've yet to see anyone explain the workaround. Both Orlando and New Jersey are over the cap, meaning that Fluffy's trade value in a sign & trade is the greater of his 2012 salary or 50% of his 2013 salary. How are they making that work without yet another under the cap team to facilitate it?


because Brook Lopez is a BYC player, his outgoing value is 50%, but his incoming value is 100%. 

This is why they need to add Kris Humphries and to find a 3rd team with cap space who can absorb Humphries salary(w/e he signs) which would satisfy the 125% rule. 

outgoing value meaning if Brook Lopez's contract is worth 13 million in the 1st year, the value of the outgoing contract is 6.5 million(when counting salaries for a trade). His incoming value is 100% for the team receiving Brook Lopez which would be 13 million dollars. 

Let's simplify things... let's pretend dwight howard is making 13 million dollars...and Humphies agrees to a deal for 6.5 million dollars a year, here is the cap value for each player and each specific team.

Nets send: Brook Lopez(6.5 million which is 50% of 13 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million) total= 13
Nets Receive: Dwight Howard (13 million) total= 13

125% is met so from the nets perspective, trade is valid. If Humphries wasn't involved it would be 6.5 million vs. 13 million which obviously wouldn't meet the criteria.

Looking at this, it seems like the trade should work...

But because Lopez' incoming value is 100% of his contract from the magic perspective it woudln't work out:

Magic Sends: Dwight Howard (13 million) total: 13 million
Magic Receive: Brook Lopez(13 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million) total: 19.5 million

Note that from the Magic side the incoming salary is now counted as 19.5 million vs. 13 million.

Now if we bring in a 3rd team that has salary cap space (ie. Cavs), they can absorb all of Humphries salary and also make the trade legal. 

So now the situation is:

Nets:

Nets Send: Brook Lopez (6.5 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million)
Nets Receive: Dwight Howard (13 million)

check

Orlando:

Orlando Sends: Dwight Howard (13 million)
Orlando Receives: Brook Lopez (13 million)

check

Cleveland:

Cleveland Receives: Kris Humphries (6.5 millions)

Check 

Because Cleveland is under the salary cap by more then 6.5 million, they can freely take on his salary without having to meet the 125% rule in a trade. Since Cleveland would be doing New Jersey a favor, they would probably demand some kind of compensation such as a 1st round pick or a young player. By absorbing Kris Humphries salary, the 125% rule is met with both the Nets and Magic and the trade is now legal.


Obviously there will be alot more moving parts that need to be involves and the salaries are wrong, but I just used those figures to illustrate how cap hits are calculated when a player has BYC status(Brook Lopez), and why it's hard to trade a BYC player when you are over the cap. The only way you can make it work is if you trade with a 3rd team that has salary cap space and can freely absorb salary.

So the answer to your question is, pretty much they would be using Cleveland to facilitate the trade....


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*

Boooo. Keep my thread title.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*



Dissonance said:


> Boooo. Keep my thread title.


It was awful. I had to change it.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



jayk009 said:


> because Brook Lopez is a BYC player, his outgoing value is 50%, but his incoming value is 100%.
> 
> This is why they need to add Kris Humphries and to find a 3rd team with cap space who can absorb Humphries salary(w/e he signs) which would satisfy the 125% rule.
> 
> outgoing value meaning if Brook Lopez's contract is worth 13 million in the 1st year, the value of the outgoing contract is 6.5 million(when counting salaries for a trade). His incoming value is 100% for the team receiving Brook Lopez which would be 13 million dollars.
> 
> Let's simplify things... let's pretend dwight howard is making 13 million dollars...and Humphies agrees to a deal for 6.5 million dollars a year, here is the cap value for each player and each specific team.
> 
> Nets send: Brook Lopez(6.5 million which is 50% of 13 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million) total= 13
> Nets Receive: Dwight Howard (13 million) total= 13
> 
> 125% is met so from the nets perspective, trade is valid. If Humphries wasn't involved it would be 6.5 million vs. 13 million which obviously wouldn't meet the criteria.
> 
> Looking at this, it seems like the trade should work...
> 
> But because Lopez' incoming value is 100% of his contract from the magic perspective it woudln't work out:
> 
> Magic Sends: Dwight Howard (13 million) total: 13 million
> Magic Receive: Brook Lopez(13 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million) total: 19.5 million
> 
> Note that from the Magic side the incoming salary is now counted as 19.5 million vs. 13 million.
> 
> Now if we bring in a 3rd team that has salary cap space (ie. Cavs), they can absorb all of Humphries salary and also make the trade legal.
> 
> So now the situation is:
> 
> Nets:
> 
> Nets Send: Brook Lopez (6.5 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million)
> Nets Receive: Dwight Howard (13 million)
> 
> check
> 
> Orlando:
> 
> Orlando Sends: Dwight Howard (13 million)
> Orlando Receives: Brook Lopez (13 million)
> 
> check
> 
> Cleveland:
> 
> Cleveland Receives: Kris Humphries (6.5 millions)
> 
> Check
> 
> Because Cleveland is under the salary cap by more then 6.5 million, they can freely take on his salary without having to meet the 125% rule in a trade. Since Cleveland would be doing New Jersey a favor, they would probably demand some kind of compensation such as a 1st round pick or a young player. By absorbing Kris Humphries salary, the 125% rule is met with both the Nets and Magic and the trade is now legal.
> 
> 
> Obviously there will be alot more moving parts that need to be involves and the salaries are wrong, but I just used those figures to illustrate how cap hits are calculated when a player has BYC status(Brook Lopez), and why it's hard to trade a BYC player when you are over the cap. The only way you can make it work is if you trade with a 3rd team that has salary cap space and can freely absorb salary.
> 
> So the answer to your question is, pretty much they would be using Cleveland to facilitate the trade....


You just got promoted to BBF CBA expert.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> You said that, but your only responses to us have been...
> 
> The media is making up the entire trade, the Cavs arent in the loop, that the dumbest thing ive heard, and find me a quote.
> 
> However, I forgot, this isnt a real trade being discussed anyway, its all a fantasy construced by dozens of media members.


I started by saying why would the Cavs and Gilbert do this, and that if anyone would try to **** a prima dona superstar deal up, it would be Dan Gilbert. How that somehow construed to you that I think Gilbert wants this to go through is beyond me. 

As far as the Cavs not being in the loop, thats in regards to these media types saying "trade imminent!" when Humphries isn't signed and its a deal that would be stupid for him to take, not to mention it makes no sense for the Cavs to just jump in and help out for fun. On top of that the Magic are getting raped up the ass in this deal, meaning there's no reason for them to do this offer, which puts us back to the fact that the media saying its "80% for sure going to happen this week" is pure made up bullshit. Probably being pushed by the Nets, Dwight and his agent.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*

BTW, I used to know all this shit and was an "expert" about 10 years ago, but I am so lazy these days I can't even begin to fathom all the in's and out's of the current CBA. For those of you with the energy to explain it to the rest of us, more power to you.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



Ron said:


> The Magic is a ship without a rudder right now.
> 
> I would blow the whole ****ing thing up and start over.


Absolutely. Trading one of the best players in the league for a guy who has proven he can lead you to one of the worst records in NBA history and signing him to a max contract is the worst possible starting spot. Not to mention he's a 7 footer who played 5 ****ing games last year with foot issues and the picks you're getting are all going to be shitty. Oh, and did I mention you just re-signed 30 year old Jameer Nelson to a 3 year deal? That is not how you blow up a team and start over.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



hobojoe said:


> Absolutely. Trading one of the best players in the league for a guy who has proven he can lead you to one of the worst records in NBA history and signing him to a max contract is the worst possible starting spot. Not to mention he's a 7 footer who played 5 ****ing games last year with foot issues and the picks you're getting are all going to be shitty. Oh, and did I mention you just re-signed 30 year old Jameer Nelson to a 3 year deal? That is not how you blow up a team and start over.


If they want expiring contracts, may as well just let Dwight stay and have him expire on his own. 

Lopez at max is a ****ing joke. You're going to pay him what Bynum and Hibbert are going to make? That's just funny.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*

I think hobojoe pointed out the problem. If the Magic are giving up Howard they deserve to be able to unload Hedo's fat ass, but probably there aren't any teams that have the salary to match Howard and Hedo while also having the draft picks Orlando wants. New Jersey could have a few weeks ago but they decided to grab Joe Johnson and now I still don't see why Orlando is going to take back their leftover garbage for a top 10 NBA player.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*



Adam said:


> I think hobojoe pointed out the problem. If the Magic are giving up Howard they deserve to be able to unload Hedo's fat ass, but probably there aren't any teams that have the salary to match Howard and Hedo while also having the draft picks Orlando wants. New Jersey could have a few weeks ago but they decided to grab Joe Johnson and now I still don't see why Orlando is going to take back their leftover garbage for a top 10 NBA player.


They aren't. People keep just assuming Orlando is going to lube themselves up and take it just because "Well Dwight wants to be traded."

That's great. Good for Dwight. But Orlando isn't going to **** themselves over just to make that jackass happy. 

They're better making Dwight play (or sit) next year and then just walk than doing this deal. So why the hell would they trade him for garbage?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



hobojoe said:


> Absolutely. Trading one of the best players in the league for a guy who has proven he can lead you to one of the worst records in NBA history and signing him to a max contract is the worst possible starting spot. Not to mention he's a 7 footer who played 5 ****ing games last year with foot issues and the picks you're getting are all going to be shitty. Oh, and did I mention you just re-signed 30 year old Jameer Nelson to a 3 year deal? That is not how you blow up a team and start over.


I don't get the Nelson signing either. Just plain ****ing stupid.

Orlando is in love with the guy, and I can understand it when he goes off...but he goes off about once every 20 days or so, and the rest of the time is just plain frustration with him.

Orlando is the laughingstock of the league right now...and if they center the team around Lopez, that is going to be one very expensive (and empty) arena come next season.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*

I don't get the Nelson hate. Hes a starting caliber point guard. Its not like they have some awesome young stud waiting for playing time that Jameer is holding back. 

Dwight is gone one way or the other and they're going to have a ton of cap. So what is the huge issue that everyone has with the Nelson deal?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Not in the loop? You mean when they told BK and ORL they didnt want Brooks, so the Clippers were brought in to add an additional 1st to the trade and find a home for Brooks? How about when they said they want to offer Hump a 3 year deal with 1 guaranteed?
> 
> Just because teams are negotiating with agents doesnt mean they are out of the loop.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it is, but actions (see the trades we just mentioned) and words *(see Gilbert saying the Cavs would win before LeBron)* have to account for something right, or were those made up too?


How does that account for this? It's clearly obvious that goal failed.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*



R-Star said:


> They aren't. People keep just assuming Orlando is going to lube themselves up and take it just because "Well Dwight wants to be traded."
> 
> That's great. Good for Dwight. But Orlando isn't going to **** themselves over just to make that jackass happy.
> 
> They're better making Dwight play (or sit) next year and then just walk than doing this deal. So why the hell would they trade him for garbage?


Because they don't want to suffer the same fate the Cavs did? Idk.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> I started by saying why would the Cavs and Gilbert do this, and that if anyone would try to **** a prima dona superstar deal up, it would be Dan Gilbert. How that somehow construed to you that I think Gilbert wants this to go through is beyond me.


Again, you are completely misunderstanding what ive been saying. I know you are saying the Cavs wouldnt do this. I know you are saying Gilbert would try to mess this up. 

Im saying, that the Cavs interest is real, because they want an additional 1st and will likely try to trade Hump at the deadline for more assets.

The point of me asking you those questions is because I AM SAYING, they are interested and Gilbert is a hypocrite, based on the LeBron saga and CP3, et al. Im saying, why would Gilbert do this? He is either a moron, hypocrite or both, as e-monk stated. Attempting to load up an eastern conference rival of Miami, while acquiring future assets conforms to e-monks take on him. He could care less about looking like a hypocrite and is a moron, because part of the reason he "could" be interested is to spite LeBron...

Geez...



> As far as the Cavs not being in the loop, thats in regards to these media types saying "trade imminent!" when Humphries isn't signed and its a deal that would be stupid for him to take, not to mention it makes no sense for the Cavs to just jump in and help out for fun. On top of that the Magic are getting raped up the ass in this deal, meaning there's no reason for them to do this offer, which puts us back to the fact that the media saying its "80% for sure going to happen this week" is pure made up bullshit. Probably being pushed by the Nets, Dwight and his agent.


Right, I know you were saying that, which wasnt my take on it at all... My take was that they are well in the loop, because they are negotiating with Hump and Fegan as well as Orlando/Clippers (hence Brooks going elsewhere for another 1st so the Cavs get a 1st and not Brooks).

The Cavs are not helping out for fun, so im not sure why you think that. I stated above why the Cavs would do it (F LeBron, grab a 1st, allows them to deal Hump at the deadline for assets).

Like I said, I seriously doubt this is being made up. The only team it doesnt make sense for is Orlando, and they are the team that engaged the Nets with the trade talks...


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



XxIrvingxX said:


> How does that account for this? It's clearly obvious that goal failed.


Exactly, its a failed goal, however based on that statement its not hard to believe Gilbert would want the Nets loaded, trying to prevent LeBron from winning any more titiles.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Again, you are completely misunderstanding what ive been saying. I know you are saying the Cavs wouldnt do this. I know you are saying Gilbert would try to mess this up.
> 
> Im saying, that the Cavs interest is real, because they want an additional 1st and will likely try to trade Hump at the deadline for more assets.
> 
> The point of me asking you those questions is because I AM SAYING, they are interested and Gilbert is a hypocrite, based on the LeBron saga and CP3, et al. Im saying, why would Gilbert do this? He is either a moron, hypocrite or both, as e-monk stated. Attempting to load up an eastern conference rival of Miami, while acquiring future assets conforms to e-monks take on him. He could care less about looking like a hypocrite and is a moron, because part of the reason he "could" be interested is to spite LeBron...
> 
> Geez...
> 
> 
> 
> Right, I know you were saying that, which wasnt my take on it at all... My take was that they are well in the loop, because they are negotiating with Hump and Fegan as well as Orlando/Clippers (hence Brooks going elsewhere for another 1st so the Cavs get a 1st and not Brooks).
> 
> The Cavs are not helping out for fun, so im not sure why you think that. I stated above why the Cavs would do it (F LeBron, grab a 1st, allows them to deal Hump at the deadline for assets).
> 
> *Like I said, I seriously doubt this is being made up.* The only team it doesnt make sense for is Orlando, and they are the team that engaged the Nets with the trade talks...


Again this goes back to the original argument. So all the previous supposed deals that were about to go through for Dwight? What happened to them? This ones legit but the previous ones that the media pushed on everyone where what exactly?


And again. Dan Gilbert is not going to take a trade to (F Lebron) as you put it. You guys try to act like the NBA is some sort of Days of Our Lives drama. Its not. Its a business.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Again this goes back to the original argument. So all the previous supposed deals that were about to go through for Dwight? What happened to them? This ones legit but the previous ones that the media pushed on everyone where what exactly?


So if a trade or signing is rumored it doesnt have any truth to it, at all? Im not saying its happening tomorrow or that its 90% done. Im saying that this isnt being made up, like you were suggesting earlier. I said I think this has legs to it, and I still believe that.




> And again. Dan Gilbert is not going to take a trade to (F Lebron) as you put it. You guys try to act like the NBA is some sort of Days of Our Lives drama. Its not. Its a business.


Are you not reading my posts? Im not saying that is the reason why he is doing it, but I wouldnt put it past him as maybe reason 4 or 5 as to why he wants to do this deal. The reason he wants to do this, again, is to get a first and then Hump so he can trade him at the deadline for assets. Oh yeah, this makes the Nets a power in the East? Ok, well thats one more team for LeBron to compete with...

I dont think its that far fetched of an idea, especially based on Gilbert's PUBLIC reactions, which you hold so highly, as emphasized earlier in this thread.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



jayk009 said:


> because Brook Lopez is a BYC player, his outgoing value is 50%, but his incoming value is 100%.
> 
> This is why they need to add Kris Humphries and to find a 3rd team with cap space who can absorb Humphries salary(w/e he signs) which would satisfy the 125% rule.
> 
> outgoing value meaning if Brook Lopez's contract is worth 13 million in the 1st year, the value of the outgoing contract is 6.5 million(when counting salaries for a trade). His incoming value is 100% for the team receiving Brook Lopez which would be 13 million dollars.
> 
> Let's simplify things... let's pretend dwight howard is making 13 million dollars...and Humphies agrees to a deal for 6.5 million dollars a year, here is the cap value for each player and each specific team.
> 
> Nets send: Brook Lopez(6.5 million which is 50% of 13 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million) total= 13
> Nets Receive: Dwight Howard (13 million) total= 13
> 
> 125% is met so from the nets perspective, trade is valid. If Humphries wasn't involved it would be 6.5 million vs. 13 million which obviously wouldn't meet the criteria.
> 
> Looking at this, it seems like the trade should work...
> 
> But because Lopez' incoming value is 100% of his contract from the magic perspective it woudln't work out:
> 
> Magic Sends: Dwight Howard (13 million) total: 13 million
> Magic Receive: Brook Lopez(13 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million) total: 19.5 million
> 
> Note that from the Magic side the incoming salary is now counted as 19.5 million vs. 13 million.
> 
> Now if we bring in a 3rd team that has salary cap space (ie. Cavs), they can absorb all of Humphries salary and also make the trade legal.
> 
> So now the situation is:
> 
> Nets:
> 
> Nets Send: Brook Lopez (6.5 million), Kris Humphries (6.5 million)
> Nets Receive: Dwight Howard (13 million)
> 
> check
> 
> Orlando:
> 
> Orlando Sends: Dwight Howard (13 million)
> Orlando Receives: Brook Lopez (13 million)
> 
> check
> 
> Cleveland:
> 
> Cleveland Receives: Kris Humphries (6.5 millions)
> 
> Check
> 
> Because Cleveland is under the salary cap by more then 6.5 million, they can freely take on his salary without having to meet the 125% rule in a trade. Since Cleveland would be doing New Jersey a favor, they would probably demand some kind of compensation such as a 1st round pick or a young player. By absorbing Kris Humphries salary, the 125% rule is met with both the Nets and Magic and the trade is now legal.
> 
> 
> Obviously there will be alot more moving parts that need to be involves and the salaries are wrong, but I just used those figures to illustrate how cap hits are calculated when a player has BYC status(Brook Lopez), and why it's hard to trade a BYC player when you are over the cap. The only way you can make it work is if you trade with a 3rd team that has salary cap space and can freely absorb salary.
> 
> So the answer to your question is, pretty much they would be using Cleveland to facilitate the trade....


The problem is that the BYC rules apply to _all_ the free agents in this deal, because the only time they're invoked now is in sign & trades. This includes Humphries and the large pile of waste that New Jersey is proposing to sign & trade as part of the shitpile. I pointed this out about ten pages back, that the only way the Nets could even get close (and not very) was if Orlando agreed to pay Fluffy Lopez the max (which would make his trade value somewhere between $6.3 & $6.4 million). New Jersey needs to send out $23 million in adjusted salary in this deal, and with everyone counting as either their 2012 salary or .5*2013 I still don't see how they can manage it without a fourth team to clean the BYC off of Fluffy.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> So if a trade or signing is rumored it doesnt have any truth to it, at all? Im not saying its happening tomorrow or that its 90% done. Im saying that this isnt being made up, like you were suggesting earlier. I said I think this has legs to it, and I still believe that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you not reading my posts? Im not saying that is the reason why he is doing it, but I wouldnt put it past him as maybe reason 4 or 5 as to why he wants to do this deal. The reason he wants to do this, again, is to get a first and then Hump so he can trade him at the deadline for assets. Oh yeah, this makes the Nets a power in the East? Ok, well thats one more team for LeBron to compete with...
> 
> I dont think its that far fetched of an idea, especially based on Gilbert's PUBLIC reactions, which you hold so highly, as emphasized earlier in this thread.


Again, and I've said this multiple times now... I'm sure theres truth to this deal from the Nets side, Dwights side and Fegans side. 

1)Why is Humphries going to structure his new contract around helping Dwight and not himself?

2)Why are the Orlando Magic going to literally get gang raped just to make Dwight happy?

3)"Well the trade makes another power team in the east for Lebron to play against. I'm sure that makes Gilbert happy!" ..... the Cavs play in the east as well. Gilbert is so bent on trying to **** Lebron over that he wants to make things on his own team harder? Again. This is ****ing ridiculous.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*

This trade just seems like a gunked-up mess. Why aren't Humphries and Brooks just going to Orlando? The two of them are as good as any of the players they'll have the chance to take with those low firsts. Makes no sense for these other two teams to be involved, unless I'm missing something contract-wise (probably am).


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Not so far fetched RT @fivethirtyeight: Sources: Magic accidentally deal Dwight Howard to themselves in 26-team trade.

haha


----------



## jayk009

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



E.H. Munro said:


> *The problem is that the BYC rules apply to all the free agents in this deal*, because the only time they're invoked now is in sign & trades. This includes Humphries and the large pile of waste that New Jersey is proposing to sign & trade as part of the shitpile. I pointed this out about ten pages back, that the only way the Nets could even get close (and not very) was if Orlando agreed to pay Fluffy Lopez the max (which would make his trade value somewhere between $6.3 & $6.4 million). New Jersey needs to send out $23 million in adjusted salary in this deal, and with everyone counting as either their 2012 salary or .5*2013 I still don't see how they can manage it without a fourth team to clean the BYC off of Fluffy.


link?

the reason why it wont apply to Humphries is because the value of his previous contract is higher then 50% of the value of what his new contract will be, and the NBA uses the *HIGHER* amount and not the lower amount


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Again, and I've said this multiple times now... I'm sure theres truth to this deal from the Nets side, Dwights side and Fegans side.


Ok then, agree to disagree.



> 1)Why is Humphries going to structure his new contract around helping Dwight and not himself?


I agree, that is why ive been saying Fegan should be fired. There is something going on, otherwise this entire thing would have crumbled already. It hasnt yet (I guess in my opinion and everyone elses who is reporting on it?).



> 2)Why are the Orlando Magic going to literally get gang raped just to make Dwight happy?


I think its a terrible deal for Orlando. I also dont think they are willing to be left with nothing for Dwight. They would trade for Bynum, but why would Bynum re-sign there when he can basically shut down any deal involving he and Dwight (as can Dwight) and stay in LA?



> 3)"Well the trade makes another power team in the east for Lebron to play against. I'm sure that makes Gilbert happy!" ..... the Cavs play in the east as well. Gilbert is so bent on trying to **** Lebron over that he wants to make things on his own team harder? Again. This is ****ing ridiculous.


I dont think its anymore rediculous than him saying the Cavs would win a title before LeBron, publically trashing LeBron after the decision (im sure agents loved that), complaining to the league about CP3 and writing Stern an email, ect.

I mean, are any of those things anymore ridiculous?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> Ok then, agree to disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, that is why ive been saying Fegan should be fired. There is something going on, otherwise this entire thing would have crumbled already. It hasnt yet (I guess in my opinion and everyone elses who is reporting on it?).
> 
> 
> 
> I think its a terrible deal for Orlando. I also dont think they are willing to be left with nothing for Dwight. They would trade for Bynum, but why would Bynum re-sign there when he can basically shut down any deal involving he and Dwight (as can Dwight) and stay in LA?
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think its anymore rediculous than him saying the Cavs would win a title before LeBron, publically trashing LeBron after the decision (im sure agents loved that), complaining to the league about CP3 and writing Stern an email, ect.
> 
> *I mean, are any of those things anymore redicilous?*


Then saying hes going to sabotage his own team in order to try to **** over Lebron?

Yea. They are actually more ridiculous. By a large margin. 

Dan Gilbert is not going to go out of his way to help form a super team in his own conference to try to hurt Lebrons chances at a dynasty. 

I mean ****. Really?


----------



## Eternal

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Then saying hes going to sabotage his own team in order to try to **** over Lebron?
> 
> Yea. They are actually more ridiculous. By a large margin.
> 
> Dan Gilbert is not going to go out of his way to help form a super team in his own conference to try to hurt Lebrons chances at a dynasty.
> 
> I mean ****. Really?


It's not really that insane if you think about it, especially from someone like Gilbert... His own team has no shot at winning anytime soon against teams like the Heat. Why not try to stop Lebron's chances of winning another ring, as well as possibly getting something out of the trade that may interest him? If it's improving his team in the deal as well as giving another power team for Lebron to go against, it seems like a win-win scenario for him.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



Eternal said:


> It's not really that insane if you think about it, especially from someone like Gilbert... His own team has no shot at winning anytime soon. Why not try to stop Lebron's chances of winning another ring, as well as possibly getting something out of the trade that may interest him?


Hes not getting much at all. Humphries and the Clippers mid to late first?

The Cavs could be pretty solid in a few years if they follow the course they're going. I highly doubt Dan Gilbert is sitting behind his desk posing a Mr Burns "eeeexxxxcelent" pose while plotting on how to screw Lebron.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Then saying hes going to sabotage his own team in order to try to **** over Lebron?
> 
> Yea. They are actually more ridiculous. By a large margin.
> 
> Dan Gilbert is not going to go out of his way to help form a super team in his own conference to try to hurt Lebrons chances at a dynasty.
> 
> I mean ****. Really?


What are you talking about? He isnt sabotaging his own team at all. Are you trying to say that Gilbert would rather not do this deal so that the Nets arent in the Cavs way (lol), instead of trying to collect another 1st (I think making it like 7 1sts in the next 3 years) and getting Hump to deal him at the deadline?

Either way you look at it, Gilbert is a moron. Either he doesnt want to collect more assets so the Nets arent in the Cavs way (lol) or he wants to do this deal for assets, thus helping form exactly what hes been complaining about.

But I forgot, I dont have a quote from Gilbert, so...


----------



## jayk009

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> Hes not getting much at all. Humphries and the Clippers mid to late first?
> 
> The Cavs could be pretty solid in a few years if they follow the course they're going. I highly doubt Dan Gilbert is sitting behind his desk posing a Mr Burns "eeeexxxxcelent" pose while plotting on how to screw Lebron.


getting a 1st is better then nothing though...assuming they aren't planning on contending for a few years, getting a 1st and w/e they can get for humph once hes expiring is still good enough of an incentive imo. 

Only thing is him losing money by having to pay humph's salary.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



R-Star said:


> I highly doubt Dan Gilbert is sitting behind his desk posing a Mr Burns "eeeexxxxcelent" pose while plotting on how to screw Lebron.


I actually could see him doing that, especially getting assets back to do so.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



jayk009 said:


> getting a 1st is better then nothing though...assuming they aren't planning on contending for a few years, getting a 1st and w/e they can get for humph once hes expiring is still good enough of an incentive imo.
> 
> Only thing is him losing money by having to pay humph's salary.


In my opinion, this would be a no-brainer from the Cavs end had Gilbert not gone on those rants over CP3, LeBron and the CBA. Take those out of the equation and its a win for the Cavs, because it doesnt make Gilbert look like a hypocrite.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*

Updated rumor...heard it on the radio coming back from the grocery store, so don't have a link just yet...notice the subtle change. 
.
.
.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



TucsonClip said:


> What are you talking about? He isnt sabotaging his own team at all. Are you trying to say that Gilbert would rather not do this deal so that the Nets arent in the Cavs way (lol), instead of trying to collect another 1st (I think making it like 7 1sts in the next 3 years) and getting Hump to deal him at the deadline?
> 
> Either way you look at it, Gilbert is a moron. Either he doesnt want to collect more assets so the Nets arent in the Cavs way (lol) or he wants to do this deal for assets, thus helping form exactly what hes been complaining about.
> 
> But I forgot, I dont have a quote from Gilbert, so...


Haha..... I love how you're trying to give attitude when your opinion is "Why should the Cavs care if they make another super team in their own conference? They aren't going to win the title anyways so it doesn't matter!"

You should probably understand that the owner of hundred million dollar plus franchise probably views it a little differently than a know nothing fan.

And again... Humphries is just sitting there saying "Ok, so I take a bad contract so that I can go to the Cavs and then get traded somewhere? Sign me up."

I'll write your reply on that one for you.



TusconClip said:


> I didn't say that. I don't think Humphries wants that at all. Why would he? But the guys in the media say its going down so there must be some truth to it?


WHY? If we're both sitting here agreeing that the Magic get ****ed. That Humphries gets ****ed. And that there have been too many supposed "Dwight dealt by the weekend" rumors that ended up being garbage over the last year to even count, why oh why for the love of god are you arguing now that "Well its on twitter so........"


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



jayk009 said:


> getting a 1st is better then nothing though...assuming they aren't planning on contending for a few years, getting a 1st and w/e they can get for humph once hes expiring is still good enough of an incentive imo.
> 
> Only thing is him losing money by having to pay humph's salary.


And forming a super team in his conference....


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*



> The Orlando Magic have re-opened negotiations with teams other than the Brooklyn Nets for Dwight Howard, a league source told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.
> 
> The Atlanta Hawks are one of the teams but "not the best option," the source said.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8...loring-other-dwight-howard-trades-source-says


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I'm wondering why the Lakers don't bring in Houston to facilitate? Send Bynum to Houston, Houston sends picks, a few of their young players and expirings to Magic and Dwight to LA.


You mean the guy who won't commit to signing an extension with the Lakers?

That guy?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I'm wondering why the Lakers don't bring in Houston to facilitate? Send Bynum to Houston, Houston sends picks, a few of their young players and expirings to Magic and Dwight to LA.


If the Magic are willing to take Houston's youth/picks/expirings for Dwight then Houston would just take Dwight themselves.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

It still sounds like no one wants Humphries.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

These last four paragraphs are quite telling:



> But there is another potential hurdle that the Nets and Magic are fighting.
> 
> Multiple league executives told ESPN.com on Sunday that there is growing reluctance among some teams to participate in the sort of three-team deal that would get Howard to Brooklyn, amid some leaguewide dissatisfaction that the Los Angeles Lakers were able to swing a deal for Steve Nash last week.
> 
> Being the cog in creating another super team in Brooklyn, with Deron Williams and Joe Johnson already in the mix, is not palatable to some teams concerned about competitive balance.
> 
> "You can talk about the new (luxury) tax all you want, but if the Lakers get Nash and the Nets get Howard, then what did the new CBA accomplish?" one GM said. "You have to realize part of long-term planning is making sure you don't help create teams you can't beat."



http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8...loring-other-dwight-howard-trades-source-says


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

People on the board need to understand that in real-life GM's don't gamble with all-star caliber players. Sure, you have leverage over Dwight, but there is still a chance he could leave. If he does leave, the franchise is set back several years and the GM is out of a job. Everyone is always saying they don't understand why proposals haven't happened - that's why. It's easy for people on the internet to throw ideas out there, but if you'd spent years building a playoff team and a meaningful career would you put it all on the line for a maybe? Bird in the hand better than one in the bush.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*



Bogg said:


> If the Magic are willing to take Houston's youth/picks/expirings for Dwight then Houston would just take Dwight themselves.


Facepalm. Lol I haven't had my coffee yet.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Per Twitter:



> Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> Bobcats willing to give Kris Humphries multi-year deal in potential 3-way trade with Nets & Magic, source says. ...


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Losers.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Nets, Magic make progress on potential pile of crap for Dwight Howard*



Ron said:


> It's not about patience. It's about a choice.
> 
> Would I rather work, or would I rather check on a potential Howard trade every 5 minutes?
> 
> You got it.


I find myself faced with the same choice.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Twitter updates:



> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> 
> If Brooklyn and Orlando are to make a deal for Howard in near-term, it will likely be a trade between the two teams, sources tell Y! Sports.





> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> 
> Cleveland is out as a third-team trade partner in a possible Orlando-Brooklyn deal for Dwight Howard, sources tell Y! Sports.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Facepalm. Lol I haven't had my coffee yet.


It actually wasn't that bad an idea b/c Bynum has said he wouldn't sign an extension in Orlando but I read Houston, Cleveland, Dallas would be prominent if he didn't re-up w/ Lakers. But, yeah, Orlando still wants more than what Houston is offering. 

Houston needs to first trade for an all-star type before trading for a superstar. Trade for an all-star and then you can either use that as a centerpiece for a Dwight-level trade or use that all-star to recruit superstars in free agency. Morey isn't a bad GM but his attempt to run before he's walked has Rockets fans turning on him.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Per Twitter:



> Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS
> 
> A possible replacement for Cleveland as a third team, the Bobcats, are "not in the mix," says a person familiar with Charlotte's plans.


Looks like it's back to square one for the Dwightmare sweepstakes. :laugh:


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

How can the trade take place b/w just those two teams, Orlando doesn't want Humphries on a long-term deal, and if no one else does either then what does that say about the ability to unload him in the future?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Updated chart.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


>


Very disturbing.

Don't take it so hard, KSF.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Cavs and Clips Enter The Fray*

so now it's back to square one?


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

That trade never had much of a chance. There was too much crap which had to go exactly right before it could work. Brooklyn doesn't even have the player under contract that it wants to trade and those guys are already looking for contracts.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nets--deal-for-magic-center-dwight-howard-jepoardized-after-cavs-withdraw.html



> Several league executives with knowledge of the negotiations believe the small-market Cavaliers had become sensitive to criticism they were contributing to the construction of another big-market super power.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Sure there's that but were they also willing to absorb three years of Kris Humphries for just a late first?


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



kbdullah said:


> Sure there's that but were they also willing to absorb three years of Kris Humphries for just a late first?


I think they would have went for 2 years guaranteed.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

I wouldn't have. You can buy late firsts from teams for three million. Why overpay, if only for a year, a player? Because then you've overpaid by the difference of that year's salary and three million to receive a late first rounder.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Dan Gilbert needs to go back to just making loans.

What a POS owner (and person) this guy is.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

He made a huge mistake when he paid for the Cavs with Lebron and then couldn't keep Lebron there. That team is probably worth something like a quarter of a billion dollars less than he paid for it. Hardly surprised that he's mad at Lebron, even though he is just as involved.


----------



## PauloCatarino

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Diable said:


> He made a huge mistake when he paid for the Cavs with Lebron and then couldn't keep Lebron there. That team is probably worth something like a quarter of a billion dollars less than he paid for it. Hardly surprised that he's mad at Lebron, even though he is just as involved.


Honest question: how many NBA team owners have actually lost money in the re-sale of the franchise?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

so is Kris Humphries not fielding interest from other teams or are he and his agent pursuing this rather than testing the open market? what do we think Kris Humphries could get if he wasnt being dangled as a part of this?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Problem is Kris Humphries agent is Dwight Howard's agent - Dan Fegan. Fegan isn't going to test the open market w/ Humphries, b/c that would prevent any Brooklyn deal, and risk upsetting his biggest client in Dwight. Fegan wants Dwight to enter the NY market b/c he could make additional commission on those endorsement deals.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



kbdullah said:


> Problem is Kris Humphries agent is Dwight Howard's agent - Dan Fegan. Fegan isn't going to test the open market w/ Humphries, b/c that would prevent any Brooklyn deal, and risk upsetting his biggest client in Dwight. Fegan wants Dwight to enter the NY market b/c he could make additional commission on those endorsement deals.


Agreed. Kris Humphries will be Fegan's pawn in this tricky game... similar to how he was once Kim Kardashian's pawn. He probably remembers what that feels like.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



kbdullah said:


> Problem is Kris Humphries agent is Dwight Howard's agent - Dan Fegan. Fegan isn't going to test the open market w/ Humphries, b/c that would prevent any Brooklyn deal, and risk upsetting his biggest client in Dwight. Fegan wants Dwight to enter the NY market b/c he could make additional commission on those endorsement deals.


Does nobody else think that Fegan's using this trade to get Brooklyn desperate enough to cough up something to bribe a team to overpay Humphries? How is that not in Kris' best interest as well? The guy's a good rebounder who's marginal to okay on both offense and defense, it isn't like he's going to command a huge salary on the open market.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Because no one is going to be willing to pay the premium of a 2nd year of Humphries for a pick in the 20s. The going rate on those picks is $3 million and some small market team would be paying Humphries three times that if he came with two guaranteed years. For this deal to work for the Clevelands/Charlottes of the world only the first year can be guaranteed, and that sure isn't in Kris Kardashian's interest.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



RollWithEm said:


> Agreed. Kris Humphries will be Fegan's pawn in this tricky game... similar to how he was once Kim Kardashian's pawn. He probably remembers what that feels like.


Fegan is a total piece of shit for not getting Humphries another agent in this whole mess. This is the pure definition of "conflict of interest." What an a-hole.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



E.H. Munro said:


> Because no one is going to be willing to pay the premium of a 2nd year of Humphries for a pick in the 20s. The going rate on those picks is $3 million and some small market team would be paying Humphries three times that if he came with two guaranteed years. For this deal to work for the Clevelands/Charlottes of the world only the first year can be guaranteed, and that sure isn't in Kris Kardashian's interest.


More or less what I said when this deal was first rumored. Cleveland/Charlotte whoever has to get a lottery pick or something like that to make it worth their time and expense. Humphries is looking for a long term deal, probably something like 3 yrs-20 million dollars. Only way you take that on is if it's in your interest to do so.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Bogg said:


> Does nobody else think that Fegan's using this trade to get Brooklyn desperate enough to cough up something to bribe a team to overpay Humphries? How is that not in Kris' best interest as well? The guy's a good rebounder who's marginal to okay on both offense and defense, it isn't like he's going to command a huge salary on the open market.


Brooklyn was already willing to trade everything outside of Deron and Joe Johnson to facilitate a trade, so I don't think getting them to cough up more on there end had anything to do with it. If anything, Orlando loses out b/c pieces that could be sent to them, such as MarShon, are being used to pay other teams to take Humphries.

I do think it's odd no news popped up on the Humphries as a FA front the whole time he's been on the market. I think Fegan is telling Humphries he can kill two birds w/ one stone as you're suggesting. But if Humphries signs a one-year deal somewhere that's going to raise eyebrows.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



kbdullah said:


> Brooklyn was already willing to trade everything outside of Deron and Joe Johnson to facilitate a trade, so I don't think getting them to cough up more on there end had anything to do with it. If anything, Orlando loses out b/c pieces that could be sent to them, such as MarShon, are being used to pay other teams to take Humphries.
> 
> I do think it's odd no news popped up on the Humphries as a FA front the whole time he's been on the market. I think Fegan is telling Humphries he can kill two birds w/ one stone as you're suggesting. But if Humphries signs a one-year deal somewhere that's going to raise eyebrows.


Humphries won't sign a one-year deal with anyone, his agent isn't that dumb. However, nobody was giving Kris a ton of money to start with, so making him integral to the blockbuster trade may work in his best interests.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

so a double-double banger coming into his own at age 26 has no value in this league at all?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



e-monk said:


> so a double-double banger coming into his own at age 26 has no value in this league at all?


He's got value, but he put those numbers up because he was on a miserable team the last two years. You realize he may have been the Nets second-best player before the trade deadline? Ideally he's playing like 20mpg and giving you something like 8 and 6 off the bench. Brandon Bass got under $7 million a year and I'd be hard-pressed to call Humph any better.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Bogg said:


> He's got value, but he put those numbers up because he was on a miserable team the last two years. You realize he may have been the Nets second-best player before the trade deadline? Ideally he's playing like 20mpg and giving you something like 8 and 6 off the bench. Brandon Bass got under $7 million a year and I'd be hard-pressed to call Humph any better.


Humphries can't shoot the mid range jumper like Bass does, but he sure does rebound & defend. Which Bass can't.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

How long was Bass' deal? If Humph got 7 a year for 3 years, no one would complain. Problem is all the rumors thus far were about teams taking 1-year deals. So either Fegan wasn't doing his job or the Nets were blowing smoke by leaking rumors.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



E.H. Munro said:


> Humphries can't shoot the mid range jumper like Bass does, but he sure does rebound & defend. Which Bass can't.


He's _okay_ on defense, but he's not locking anyone up, either. Put Humphries in the rotation of an actual good team and he isn't throwing up numbers like he has in New Jersey. 7 a year is about right for him, if he can get 9 or more that's too much, but good for him.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Bogg said:


> He's _okay_ on defense, but he's not locking anyone up, either. Put Humphries in the rotation of an actual good team and he isn't throwing up numbers like he has in New Jersey. 7 a year is about right for him, if he can get 9 or more that's too much, but good for him.


No, I agree that Humphries' market value is 3/4 years at around seven large. But I think his agent is more worried about getting Howard to Brooklyn and probably lying up a blue streak to him. But ultimately if you're a crappy team a guy like Humphries is exactly what you're not looking for. So paying anything more than one season on any contract isn't in anyone's best interest outside Brooklyn's.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

how many teams still have cap space anyways? he'd probably have to hope for the MLE from another team if he's not in the trade.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Be funny if he fired Fegan.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



> @EricPincus: Can Lakers, Rockets & Magic Make a Deal? http://t.co/s46cTkQa Some preliminary discussion with Drew to Hou, Dwight to LAL


Hmmm...


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



E.H. Munro said:


> Humphries can't shoot the mid range jumper like Bass does, but he sure does rebound & defend. Which Bass can't.


Everyone knows how much of a Bass fan I have been over the years. Hell I'm probably in the running for number 1 fan, but even I have been disappointed in his rebounding numbers. If anything I figured he would make his mark in the league only somewhat on midrange game, but more so on freethrows, and frequent _rebounds_ that lead to put backs.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Can they give Humphries a one-year max and include Turkoglu to New Jersey?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Adrian Wojnarowski via Twitter


> The Nets have been negotiating an extension with Brook Lopez and could ultimately complete the deal in the next 48 hours, sources say.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Now that the moratorium is almost over they have to address these types of issues, b/c offer sheets can be officially signed.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



kbdullah said:


> Adrian Wojnarowski via Twitter


Yea. But Woj is a ****ing idiot who makes up stories.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Where's TusconClip I wonder. 

He was just telling me this made so much sense from the Cavs side of things. 


Do not believe everything you read on twitter.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



> @NYDNInterNets: Source confirms talks of 3-way blockbuster between Rockets, Lakers and Magic.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Hoopsworld makes shit up. I don't give their stories any credence at all.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



R-Star said:


> Where's TusconClip I wonder.
> 
> He was just telling me this made so much sense from the Cavs side of things.
> 
> 
> Do not believe everything you read on twitter.


Dude, you take one half of what I say and use that to spin things. Go back and look. I said either way, Gilbert is a moron.

A. Hes a moron because he wouldnt want to acquire assets (barring they sigend Hump 2 years guaranteed, no way they were only getting 1 year).

B. Hes a moron and a hypocrite, because hes helping form another super team after complaining about it.

Either way, hes a moron, but at least hes salvaging whatever is left of his reputation by dropping out of this deal. Nothing good could have come from Cleveland being rumored in the deal, as we just saw, by them backing out of the trade, at least in part, due to backlash from around the league.

Had Gilbert not been so anti LeBron, CP3 deal, CBA, ect. there wouldnt be the backlash.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

I just never understood why Orlando was talking with the Nets in the first place. The only team this 3/4 way didnt make sense for was Orlando.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



> Rockets and Magic discussing direct two-team deals for Dwight-to-HOU & three-team scenario reported by @EricPincus. Story going online now


Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Seriously? Back to square one?? Ugh this is getting old.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

In all honesty, I do NOT want to see Howard go to Houston. I don't know why, I just don't want to see him go to a place like Houston. Just seems out of place. Plus we already know Howard will most likely leave after the year is over with anyways to go to Brooklyn.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



> ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> Rockets' position strengthened, sources say, by fact no team has yet offered Magic better pick than first-rounder via Toronto in Lowry trade


Strengthened? Uh... What exactly did they think they were going to get from anyone else theyve been talking to?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Per Twitter:



> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> 
> Rockets' position strengthened, sources say, by fact no team has yet offered Magic better pick than first-rounder via Toronto in Lowry trade





> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> 
> Rockets and Magic discussing direct two-team deals for Dwight-to-HOU & three-team scenario reported by @EricPincus. Story going online now


But I would discount the Hoopsworld report.

I would think Houston would go more for Dwight rather than send him on to Los Angeles.

There there is that pesky little problem about Dwightmare not extending anywhere but Brooklyn...


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



> The Cavs are resisting. Western conference teams are the most willing to step in, Kerber reports. "You’ve got teams lining up to give a draft pick to keep Howard away from the Lakers," one rival GM told him.


http://www.netsdaily.com/2012/7/10/3148655/clock-is-ticking-on-howard-deal

Pussies. I hate "defensive" transactions


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



TucsonClip said:


> Strengthened? Uh... What exactly did they think they were going to get from anyone else theyve been talking to?


Strengthened perhaps because Toronto's pick is expected to be a lot higher tahn anyone else.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

And if he goes to Houston then there's *another* year of this shit. I can't believe Ehmunro, a Houston fan, would even be down for that.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

I always thought EH was a Celtic fan? Did I miss something here?


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Ron said:


> Strengthened perhaps because Toronto's pick is expected to be a lot higher tahn anyone else.


So, then the pick was strengthened by Nash going to LA? If that were the case, why is it all of a sudden strengthened a week later? I mean, the Raptors pick was always the best pick, barring a miracle haul this summer.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Its almost like the Cavs didn't want another super team in their conference.....


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Wade County said:


> I always thought EH was a Celtic fan? Did I miss something here?


Both


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Wade County said:


> I always thought EH was a Celtic fan? Did I miss something here?


You and me both


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Ron said:


> I would think Houston would go more for Dwight rather than send him on to Los Angeles.
> 
> There there is that pesky little problem about Dwightmare not extending anywhere but Brooklyn...


Yeah, Pincus was reporting the Rockets would be open to blocking Dwight to LA, even if he wont re-sign.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

The only way I want him in Houston is if he signs an extension and actually wants to be here. 

Highly unlikely though but at this point I don't care. I want us to go all out or just tank for once. None of this pick 13-15 bullshit anymore.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

If Bynum is willing to extend in Houston then Houston is choosing between a locked in Bynum or Dwight leaving after 1 year. Houston is reportedly on Bynum's list of teams he'd like to extend for. I would think they'd rather have Bynum locked in.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

IIRC he said he was a Celtics fan but also someone gave him a Rockets basketball when he was a kid so he followed them too

Or vice versa

But he always calls Celtics and Rockets "us" and "we" if you pay attention


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> If Bynum is willing to extend in Houston then Houston is choosing between a locked in Bynum or Dwight leaving after 1 year. Houston is reportedly on Bynum's list of teams he'd like to extend for. I would think they'd rather have Bynum locked in.


Can't argue with this...however, I would think the surly Bynum might say something to the effect, "I never said I would extend with Dallas and/or Houston...that's the media talking. Did you ever hear that come out of my mouth?"

It's the NBA. Better drama then the movies.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

In all reality, this Houston/LA/ORL deal is the one that should have been done already. Its the best for all involved, unless you count Dwight, which I could care less about unless you are the Lakers.

Lakers get Dwight and I find it hard to believe he wouldnt re-sign with Nash in the mix, but who knows.

Houston get Bynum, who apparently wants to sign there.

Orlando dumps Jrich and gets young guys and picks to rebuild.

Its always been the best deal, just assuming Dwight would actually stay in LA.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Well, Houston can offer Orlando a better package than NJ can....and getting Bynum isn't a bad get for them.

We'll see. Over this shit though.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Per Twitter:



> Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan
> 
> Key development in Lakers' pursuit of Dwight Howard: They're more open to taking back contract of G-F Jason Richardson (3 yrs, $18.6 mill).


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

where is atlanta?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



E.H. Munro said:


> No, I agree that Humphries' market value is 3/4 years at around seven large. But I think his agent is more worried about getting Howard to Brooklyn and probably lying up a blue streak to him. But ultimately if you're a crappy team a guy like Humphries is exactly what you're not looking for. So paying anything more than one season on any contract isn't in anyone's best interest outside Brooklyn's.


Well, if Fegan can leverage this trade to get some team with cap space to give Humphries something stupid, like 11 or 12 million in the first year and partially guarantee the second year for something like 4 million, he's essentially gotten his client a one-year max deal. Assuming the team is pretty bad, Humphries would have plenty of opportunity to continue stat-padding and get the same or larger long-term deal next summer that he'd get this month. If this is what Fegan's trying to do, and I think it is, he isn't doing either client a disservice, and he might be getting Kris an extra 9 million dollars over the next three years.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

he tried to get him shipped to Cleveland (on purpose)


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



e-monk said:


> where is atlanta?


It's a city in the southern part of the United States. It is the capital of the state of Georgia. The Summer Olympics in 1996 were held there.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



> Hawks, I'm told, still think they're alive in Dwight trade chase. With plenty of pieces to offer and Josh Smith to lobby Howard to stay


Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

I'm still thinking Atlanta pulls it off. I have no insiders and I'm not following anyone on Twitter, I'm just basing it off the fact that they have the best pieces to offer the Magic and a couple very good reasons to believe he'd re-sign there when push comes to shove.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



hobojoe said:


> I'm still thinking Atlanta pulls it off. I have no insiders and I'm not following anyone on Twitter, I'm just basing it off the fact that they have the best pieces to offer the Magic and a couple very good reasons to believe he'd re-sign there when push comes to shove.


I hope so. I still can't believe the Lakers are involved in talks for this guy.

Do not want to see him on the Lakers. Period.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



> The Orlando Magic are talking to the Los Angeles Lakers and Houston Rockets in various trade scenarios involving Dwight Howard, according to league sources. However, a source directly involved in the discussions said Tuesday night that no deal involving Howard going to either team was likely at the moment — though the situation remains fluid and could re-heat at any moment.
> 
> Discussions with the Brooklyn Nets, the one team Howard has said he’d be willing to sign a contract extension with after this season, were “quiet,” the source said Tuesday. A proposed four-team deal involving the Nets, Magic, Cavaliers and Clippers never came near fruition, and the Nets started looking for different trade partners Monday. In that complicated deal, Howard would have gone to Brooklyn, with the Nets sending center Brook Lopez (in a sign and trade deal) along with three future first-round picks to Orlando, and Cleveland taking Nets free agent Kris Humphries in a sign-and-trade deal. A fourth team, reportedly at various points the Clippers, Bobcats or Timberwolves, would have taken another Nets player, guard MarShon Brooks. But another source said Tuesday reports that that deal was anywhere near close were “way premature” because of all the moving parts involved.


http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/10/latest-howard-chatter-involves-rockets-lakers/


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

I don't get the logic behind trying to deal for Howard if I'm Houston or Atlanta. We already know Howard won't win a championship in any of those areas (Atlanta blew that chance away when they traded Joe Johnson to the Nets), and we already know Howard will end up leaving both of those teams if he ends up going to them. LA I'm not so sure about. When you consider the fact that Kobe is aging, it's hard to tell at this point. If he were just two years younger I'm sure Howard would sign an extension with them, no questions asked. All in all, in the end, Howard will most likely end up going to Brooklyn at some point anyways, so I don't see the point in trying to deal for him. Keep the current talent you have now (unless, as a couple posts above ago mentioned, it's the three way with LA and Houston where Houston would end up getting Bynum.) rather then just waste it away.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



XxIrvingxX said:


> I don't get the logic behind trying to deal for Howard if I'm Houston or Atlanta. We already know Howard won't win a championship in any of those areas (Atlanta blew that chance away when they traded Joe Johnson to the Nets), and we already know Howard will end up leaving both of those teams if he ends up going to them. LA I'm not so sure about. When you consider the fact that Kobe is aging, it's hard to tell at this point. If he were just two years younger I'm sure Howard would sign an extension with them, no questions asked. All in all, in the end, Howard will most likely end up going to Brooklyn at some point anyways, so I don't see the point in trying to deal for him. Keep the current talent you have now (unless, as a couple posts above ago mentioned, it's the three way with LA and Houston where Houston would end up getting Bynum.) rather then just waste it away.


how is dwight going to get to brooklyn? he's going to walk away from a max offer from the hawks or rockets so he can sign for the mle?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

All of this was a lot more entertaining when Dwight was staying in the Eastern Conference. Rooting for him to go to Houston b/c that's just a two-step away from Dallas...


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



rocketeer said:


> how is dwight going to get to brooklyn? he's going to walk away from a max offer from the hawks or rockets so he can sign for the mle?


nothing would shock me with Dwight and how bad he wants to go to BK


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



FSH said:


> nothing would shock me with Dwight and how bad he wants to go to BK


There is 0 chance of Dwight signing for less than anything close to the max he can get.


He's a spoiled child. A spoiled child is going to take less than they think they deserve? Not a ****ing chance.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*

Adrian Woj on Yahoo Sports...



> Restricted free-agent center Brook Lopez is progressing toward an agreement for a maximum contract with the Brooklyn Nets, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> Nets president Billy King and Lopez’s agent, Arn Tellem, are finalizing the length of the deal – four years for $58 million, or five years for $78 million – and ironing out protections on the back end to account for a right foot that Lopez broke twice in the past year, sources said.
> 
> King is scheduled to travel to Los Angeles on Wednesday to work on completing the deal with Tellem.
> Brooklyn needs Lopez as the centerpiece of a sign-and-trade deal to acquire Orlando’s Dwight Howard, but is running out of time waiting for the Magic to make a decision on where they want to trade him, sources said. The Nets need to add four free agents into a deal for Howard, and convincing all of them to be a part of a complicated sign-and-trade deal much beyond Wednesday’s end to the league’s moratorium on transactions becomes increasingly more unrealistic every day.
> Once Lopez signs the deal, he can’t be traded until December.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nets-near-contract-agreement-with-brook-lopez.html


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



Bogg said:


> Well, if Fegan can leverage this trade to get some team with cap space to give Humphries something stupid, like 11 or 12 million in the first year and partially guarantee the second year for something like 4 million, he's essentially gotten his client a one-year max deal. Assuming the team is pretty bad, Humphries would have plenty of opportunity to continue stat-padding and get the same or larger long-term deal next summer that he'd get this month. If this is what Fegan's trying to do, and I think it is, he isn't doing either client a disservice, and he might be getting Kris an extra 9 million dollars over the next three years.


The thing is that none of the teams with cap space (read, the teams that suck so bad no one will take their money) need Humphries. Humphries can't get more than $9.6 million without invoking the BYC rules, so in essence some team, with one year of Khris Khardashian is already paying 2.2 x the market rate for a draft pick in the 20s (presuming that they get the full $3 million in the deal). Why would they want even a second year of that? Because at that point they're paying 5.3 x the market rate for a pick in the crapshoot section of the draft.



XxIrvingxX said:


> I don't get the logic behind trying to deal for Howard if I'm Houston or Atlanta. We already know Howard won't win a championship in any of those areas (Atlanta blew that chance away when they traded Joe Johnson to the Nets), and we already know Howard will end up leaving both of those teams if he ends up going to them. LA I'm not so sure about. When you consider the fact that Kobe is aging, it's hard to tell at this point. If he were just two years younger I'm sure Howard would sign an extension with them, no questions asked. All in all, in the end, Howard will most likely end up going to Brooklyn at some point anyways, so I don't see the point in trying to deal for him. Keep the current talent you have now (unless, as a couple posts above ago mentioned, it's the three way with LA and Houston where Houston would end up getting Bynum.) rather then just waste it away.


Would Atlanta win next year? No. But guess what, Paul will be a free agent next summer and the best defensive team in the NBA would be waiting for him in Atlanta. Dwight isn't walking away from $42 million to play in Brooklyn, _especially_ after his recent back injury. He's going to get every dime coming to him.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



kbdullah said:


> Adrian Woj on Yahoo Sports...
> 
> 
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nets-near-contract-agreement-with-brook-lopez.html


Good. **** Dwight Howard.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



> The Orlando Magic are talking to the Los Angeles Lakers and Houston Rockets in various trade scenarios involving Dwight Howard, according to league sources. However, a source directly involved in the discussions said Tuesday night that no deal involving Howard going to either team was likely at the moment — though the situation remains fluid and could re-heat at any moment.
> 
> Discussions with the Brooklyn Nets, the one team Howard has said he’d be willing to sign a contract extension with after this season, were “quiet,” the source said Tuesday. A proposed four-team deal involving the Nets, Magic, Cavaliers and Clippers never came near fruition, and the Nets started looking for different trade partners Monday. In that complicated deal, Howard would have gone to Brooklyn, with the Nets sending center Brook Lopez (in a sign and trade deal) along with three future first-round picks to Orlando, and Cleveland taking Nets free agent Kris Humphries in a sign-and-trade deal. A fourth team, reportedly at various points the Clippers, Bobcats or Timberwolves, would have taken another Nets player, guard MarShon Brooks. But another source said Tuesday reports that that deal was anywhere near close were “way premature” because of all the moving parts involved.


http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/10/latest-howard-chatter-involves-rockets-lakers/


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

How often would you guys be going to these websites if these "imminent deal in the works!" stories weren't popping up everywhere?

After you answer that question, you should understand why these keep showing up. Then you'll understand why they also keep falling through.

I said yesterday the "imminent deal" with Brooklyn, Orland, Cleveland, LAC wasn't happening. Guys argued. It didn't happen.
Todays trade with LA and Houston probably isn't going to happen either.

This will happen when it happens, but Orlando doesn't have a gun to their head. They aren't winning next season with or without Dwight. They know that. What's to keep them from keeping him and sign and trading him at the trade deadline when Dwights back is against the wall for signing an extension? Nothing. In fact they stand to gain more for waiting for just that, since teams would open up the bank if they knew they were getting 5 guaranteed years of Dwight.

This situation seems to be stealing a large majority of the fanbases common sense.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

I still want the clippers to trade a future 1st for Marshon Brooks


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



R-Star said:


> How often would you guys be going to these websites if these "imminent deal in the works!" stories weren't popping up everywhere?
> 
> After you answer that question, you should understand why these keep showing up. Then you'll understand why they also keep falling through.
> 
> I said yesterday the "imminent deal" with Brooklyn, Orland, Cleveland, LAC wasn't happening. Guys argued. It didn't happen.
> Todays trade with LA and Houston probably isn't going to happen either.
> 
> This will happen when it happens, but Orlando doesn't have a gun to their head. They aren't winning next season with or without Dwight. They know that. What's to keep them from keeping him and sign and trading him at the trade deadline when Dwights back is against the wall for signing an extension? Nothing. In fact they stand to gain more for waiting for just that, since teams would open up the bank if they knew they were getting 5 guaranteed years of Dwight.
> 
> This situation seems to be stealing a large majority of the fanbases common sense.


Like like like like like like like


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



R-Star said:


> How often would you guys be going to these websites if these "imminent deal in the works!" stories weren't popping up everywhere?
> 
> After you answer that question, you should understand why these keep showing up. Then you'll understand why they also keep falling through.
> 
> I said yesterday the "imminent deal" with Brooklyn, Orland, Cleveland, LAC wasn't happening. Guys argued. It didn't happen.
> Todays trade with LA and Houston probably isn't going to happen either.
> 
> This will happen when it happens, but Orlando doesn't have a gun to their head. They aren't winning next season with or without Dwight. They know that. What's to keep them from keeping him and sign and trading him at the trade deadline when Dwights back is against the wall for signing an extension? Nothing. In fact they stand to gain more for waiting for just that, since teams would open up the bank if they knew they were getting 5 guaranteed years of Dwight.
> 
> This situation seems to be stealing a large majority of the fanbases common sense.


People are whores for rumors. Always been the case, will continue to be the case.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

That's part of the fun and if it wasn't for the rumors, there wouldn't be Twitter or even this bulletin board.

I agree its not likely that any of these deals will come to fruition, but it is interesting to see how the teams are negotiating for the players and what players are in the mix.

Otherwise, why bother posting and commenting on this thread?

Given that we have over 2,000 posts and 71,000 views, I would say there is a demand from our members we continue the discussion on Dwightmare, up to and until there is a transaction.

Carry on now.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



R-Star said:


> How often would you guys be going to these websites if these "imminent deal in the works!" stories weren't popping up everywhere?
> 
> After you answer that question, you should understand why these keep showing up. Then you'll understand why they also keep falling through.
> 
> I said yesterday the "imminent deal" with Brooklyn, Orland, Cleveland, LAC wasn't happening. Guys argued. It didn't happen.
> Todays trade with LA and Houston probably isn't going to happen either.
> 
> This will happen when it happens, but Orlando doesn't have a gun to their head. They aren't winning next season with or without Dwight. They know that. What's to keep them from keeping him and sign and trading him at the trade deadline when Dwights back is against the wall for signing an extension? Nothing. In fact they stand to gain more for waiting for just that, since teams would open up the bank if they knew they were getting 5 guaranteed years of Dwight.
> 
> This situation seems to be stealing a large majority of the fanbases common sense.


Even if trades aren't likely to happen they still give people something to speculate and argue about. And that's the whole point of the message board.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Howard Deal Rumored To Involve Four Teams: Re-opened negotiations with others*



E.H. Munro said:


> The thing is that none of the teams with cap space (read, the teams that suck so bad no one will take their money) need Humphries. Humphries can't get more than $9.6 million without invoking the BYC rules, so in essence some team, with one year of Khris Khardashian is already paying 2.2 x the market rate for a draft pick in the 20s (presuming that they get the full $3 million in the deal). Why would they want even a second year of that? Because at that point they're paying 5.3 x the market rate for a pick in the crapshoot section of the draft.


I was under the impression that Humphries was signed a 1yr/$10mil deal last year, which is where I got that 11-12 figure, turns out his deal was for a little under 8. I agree it's not a _good_ idea to give him a ton of a money, but if Fegan can talk a team into looking at it as they need Humphries and they're only paying the _extra_ salary above the $7-8 mil/yr he's likely to get (which, like you said, is less than $3mil/yr) as the price for the draft pick, and Brooklyn also sends them $3mil........I mean, it's the wrong way to look at it, I agree, but when you're dealing with Michael Jordan.....


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

I actually think signing guys just to trade them away in order to create cap space is a pretty bad skirt of the spirit of the cba (and it's not sour grapes because the Lakers did the same thing with Aaron McKie in the Gasol deal) but once you start talking about TPEs and S&Ts just to generate contract holds you're working with mechanisms set in place to circumvent the entire idea of having a cap in the first place


----------



## Headliner

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

All of this non-sense when he could of just signed with the Nets on his own terms last year.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

he could have done it today if he hadnt extended in March


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



e-monk said:


> he could have done it today if he hadnt extended in March


Yup.

Howard is an imbecile.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



Ron said:


> Yup.
> 
> Howard is an imbecile.


his agent doesnt strike me as a particluarly bright bulb either


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

He thought he could force a trade, but its hard to force a trade when the Nets lose leverage by trading for Joe Johnson. Although you could argue they needed to do that just to retain Deron.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

Nets Growing Impatient, Will "Resolve" Dwight Howard Bid Today



> The Brooklyn Nets will "resolve" their pursuit of Dwight Howard on Wednesday, a league source said.
> 
> General manager Billy King is meeting with the agent for center Brook Lopez in Los Angeles on Wednesday, sources said, and it is expected that he will either sign Lopez with the intent on dealing him to the Orlando Magic for Howard or sign Lopez with the idea of keeping him and moving forward without Howard.
> 
> The Nets are convinced the chance of making a deal for Howard will be undermined as teams sign free agents and eliminate their flexibility to be trade partners in providing the draft picks, salary-cap room and young talent the Magic are seeking for their disgruntled All-Star center.
> 
> Lopez's agent is pushing the Nets to either sign Lopez themselves or do a sign-and-trade by the end of the day, sources told ESPN.com's Chad Ford. The Nets are fearful that Lopez will receive an offer sheet from another team if they don't act by the end of the day, which would kill the opportunity to move him in a sign-and-trade for Howard.
> 
> On Tuesday night, the Houston Rockets and Los Angeles Lakers rejoined the Nets as the most serious potential trade partners with the Magic on a Howard deal, sources close to the process told ESPN.com's Marc Stein.


http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8156575/2012-nba-free-agency-brooklyn-nets-set-resolve-dwight-howard-bid-source


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

If the Nets pull out, some other team will undoubtedly jump in very soon.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

I don't know what to make of the Nets. They almost had a dream team, one I thought would be better than the Heat. But as it turns out, they've backed themselves into a corner. It looks less and less like they will get Dwight, and b/c they have no cap space to offer any talent, they have to give Lopez a max deal for fear someone else would sign him. After they do that, they almost have to sign Humphries as well just to complete the starting lineup.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

Last time the Nets pulled out of a deal they ended up with a better player than Melo

That can't happen this time but they're still going to feel like they need to make a contingency move


----------



## BlackNRed

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

Get this shit over wit already.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



Dre said:


> Last time the Nets pulled out of a deal they ended up with a better player than Melo
> 
> That can't happen this time but they're still going to feel like they need to make a contingency move


they already made their contingency moves.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

Not really, if anything that was to appeal to Dwight. You see them still going hard


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> 
> Source close to process says Portland & Charlotte have indeed told Brook Lopez they're ready to sign him today to four-year max offer sheet


Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> 
> This is why Nets MUST move today. They either have to complete sign-and-trade for Howard with Lopez going to ORL or sign Lopez to keep him


Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

I hope he chooses to sign the offer sheet from Portland. Paying Lopez the max would be an incredibly dumb thing for the Bobcats to do. I guess we should have seen that coming. The Nets should let him sign an offer sheet so they end up getting out of the fifth year.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



> @AlexKennedyNBA: The Magic informed Dwight Howard that they are suspending trade talks, according to source. Orlando will now focus on their coaching search.


SMH...


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*

Makes sense actually. They re-opened trade talks w/ Brooklyn today b/c of the impending deadline for them to move on Brook Lopez. They probably weren't able to gain any additional traction, so that trade fell through. Probably why I just read Nets made a four-year maximum offer to Brook Lopez. Now that the Nets de-facto deadline has passed, there's no rush for Orlando. Between Houston, Lakers, and Atlanta now...


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



> @SportsCenter: BREAKING - Dwight Howard trade to @brooklynnets falls through, last-gasp attempt to work a deal has died. @RicBucher w/more on ESPN2 soon


Welp...


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Magic talking Howard with Lakers, Rockets; discussions with Nets "quiet"*



Ron said:


> Yup.
> 
> Howard is an imbecile.


He wasn't gonna walk away from the money when he thought he could still get traded there this summer. It's why I think he eventually signs an extension with whoever he goes to, so long as it's a halfway decent scenario, and why I argued that Chicago should just go ahead and pair him with Derrick Rose back in March. Doubly so now that Brooklyn's used up all their cap space to field a playoff team next year.


----------



## TucsonClip

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

I cant wait till Dwight Howard retires


----------



## RollWithEm

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

I have never understood why Denver doesn't get in this mix.


----------



## jayk009

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Because they don't want to deal with another Dwightmare and risk having him for 1 year and then him signing an extension and then demanding a trade again. 

Dwight Howard will not walk away from any money, but he will still feel entitled to go to whatever team he wants and demand another trade...


----------



## ATLien

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



RollWithEm said:


> I have never understood why Denver doesn't get in this mix.


Or Chicago. Or Oklahoma City. Or the Clippers. Pretty much any team that is on the cusp should be trying to work a trade.


----------



## kbdullah

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

But Dwight is a legit threat to leave those small markets and Chicago wouldn't contend w/ Rose missing time this year, so I could see Dwight leaving Chicago too. Clippers maybe, but Magic won't think DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe are enough.

Right now I'm just hoping Houston pulls through b/c I don't want Dwight to end up in Los Angeles long-term. I think Houston ends up winning b/c Bynum has said he wouldn't extend in Orlando. This means any trade has to go through Houston, giving them leverage. If they really think Dwight would re-sign w/ them, then they've got no reason to include Los Angeles in the deal.


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

I dont get why OKC isnt offering Harden,Perkins,Ibaka for Howard. Im betting Howard would sign with OKC they seems to have a amazing fan base and 2 huge stars

Howard needs to figure out he probably isnt going to Bk


----------



## ChrisWoj

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Oh my ****ing god... won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!


----------



## kbdullah

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

I don't think Howard would re-sign w/ Oklahoma City b/c the market is too small and the city isn't exciting. He seems like a guy who is attracted more by the sex appeal of a situation than basketball reasons.


----------



## ATLien

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Well, if Durant never wins a title they will regret not trading for a HOF Center for a dime on the dollar. They haven't done anything to improve that roster after getting embarrassed in Miami.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

No way the Magic are stupid enough to keep Dwight till January....


----------



## RollWithEm

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



FSH said:


> I dont get why OKC isnt offering Harden,Perkins,Ibaka for Howard. Im betting Howard would sign with OKC they seems to have a amazing fan base and 2 huge stars
> 
> Howard needs to figure out he probably isnt going to Bk


I have said this before. OKC could also throw in Cook's expiring contract and offer to take back J-Rich to get the Magic more cap relief.


----------



## LA68

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



RollWithEm said:


> I have said this before. OKC could also throw in Cook's expiring contract and offer to take back J-Rich to get the Magic more cap relief.


You may have forgotten that this whole thing began because Howard wants to go to a big city or he would just stay in Orlando. Denver and OKC aren't big enough for him.

Denver ? Give McGee some time and good coaching and he might end up better than Howard. And you already have him. And Mozgov .


----------



## TucsonClip

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Bucher just said on SC that Dwight may challenge the leagality of his opt in, because of improper inducements from the Magic.

What a joke


----------



## LA68

*re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



TucsonClip said:


> Bucher just said on SC that Dwight may challenge the leagality of his opt in, because of improper inducements from the Magic.
> 
> What a joke


opcorn:


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



LA68 said:


> Denver ? Give McGee some time and good coaching and he might end up better than Howard. And you already have him. And Mozgov .


what?


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



FSH said:


> I dont get why OKC isnt offering Harden,Perkins,Ibaka for Howard. Im betting Howard would sign with OKC they seems to have a amazing fan base and 2 huge stars
> 
> Howard needs to figure out he probably isnt going to Bk


Yup. Reminds me of when Miami had Odom, Wade, and Butler and they traded Odom, Butler, and picks to LA for Shaq. Too many teams Pritchard it up and sit on their assets instead of consolidating.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



LA68 said:


> You may have forgotten that this whole thing began because Howard wants to go to a big city or he would just stay in Orlando. Denver and OKC aren't big enough for him.
> 
> *Denver ? Give McGee some time and good coaching and he might end up better than Howard. And you already have him. And Mozgov *.


LOL

Out of all the things, you've said, this is the absolute worst !


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



FSH said:


> I dont get why OKC isnt offering Harden,Perkins,Ibaka for Howard. Im betting Howard would sign with OKC they seems to have a amazing fan base and 2 huge stars
> 
> Howard needs to figure out he probably isnt going to Bk


That would be nasty! That would improve both teams.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Adam said:


> Yup. Reminds me of when Miami had Odom, Wade, and Butler and they traded Odom, Butler, and picks to LA for Shaq. Too many teams Pritchard it up and sit on their assets instead of consolidating.


if it was easy to trade a few players of one tier for one player multiple tiers above them, you'd see it happening a lot more. the opportunity isn't there the vast majority of the time.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Somewhere TusconClip is crying.

"But the trades...... they told me they were going to happen! On twitter! Nooooo......"


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Hyperion said:


> That would be nasty! That would improve both teams.


both?


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



rocketeer said:


> if it was easy to trade a few players of one tier for one player multiple tiers above them, you'd see it happening a lot more. the opportunity isn't there the vast majority of the time.


I'm speaking of the opportunities that are there that are not taken. I'm not saying that the opportunities are plentiful. When they are there, they too often are not taken, and that's because of poor management.



e-monk said:


> both?


I don't think OKC could get away with not giving up at least their #2 player in the deal, but even then everyone should do a Westbrook + Harden swap for Howard. Durant + Howard can win championships. Westbrook and Harden can help start Orlando's rebuild.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Adam said:


> I'm speaking of the opportunities that are there that are not taken. I'm not saying that the opportunities are plentiful. When they are there, they too often are not taken, and that's because of poor management.


yeah and do you know what actual opportunities are there that aren't taken?


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



rocketeer said:


> yeah and do you know what actual opportunities are there that aren't taken?


Do I have examples of the hypothetical deals that don't take place that I think should have taken place? Is that actually the question? I have seen the players available in the last decade who were not grabbed with the opportunity there. Shaq was available and only Riley had the stones to take him. Garnett was available and Phoenix didn't have the guts to seal the deal. Howard is available and somebody should step up.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Adam said:


> Do I have examples of the hypothetical deals that don't take place that I think should have taken place? Is that actually the question? I have seen the players available in the last decade who were not grabbed with the opportunity there. Shaq was available and only Riley had the stones to take him. Garnett was available and Phoenix didn't have the guts to seal the deal. Howard is available and somebody should step up.


Yea. Miami was the only team who tried to get Shaq.


****. Just the dumb shit I end up hearing makes me wonder how you keep posting.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Adam said:


> Do I have examples of the hypothetical deals that don't take place that I think should have taken place? Is that actually the question? I have seen the players available in the last decade who were not grabbed with the opportunity there. Shaq was available and only Riley had the stones to take him. Garnett was available and Phoenix didn't have the guts to seal the deal. Howard is available and somebody should step up.


uh, the whole little exchange you and fsh had about oklahoma city not taking advantage of their opportunity to get howard would be one.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

wait, Lopez just got a max contract?

I quit


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



TucsonClip said:


> Bucher just said on SC that Dwight may challenge the leagality of his opt in, because of improper inducements from the Magic.
> 
> What a joke


He can win too.

His argument would be that he was too mentally challenged to properly make such a life-changing decision.


----------



## AshJames

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Man i would love for this to end with Dwight ending somewhere completely random ie Detroit:laugh:


----------



## Maravilla

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

I hope this guy gets booed out of every road arena. This is a joke.


----------



## ATLien

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Adam said:


> Do I have examples of the hypothetical deals that don't take place that I think should have taken place? Is that actually the question? I have seen the players available in the last decade who were not grabbed with the opportunity there. Shaq was available and only Riley had the stones to take him. Garnett was available and Phoenix didn't have the guts to seal the deal. Howard is available and somebody should step up.


Yep. I don't know if they had these opportunities in real-life, but remember Blazers and Bulls fans in the early half of this decade? Everyone was untouchable. Nobody wanted to consolidate. Supposedly dynasties, LMAO.


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



AshJames said:


> Man i would love for this to end with Dwight ending somewhere completely random ie Detroit:laugh:


*shakes head* *sigh*


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

So wait, we're talking about Dwight Howard here? Really? I can't believe the gall of all of you. This good, pure, young Christian man. His humility is one of the reasons he was a surefire superstar! Clearly none of the things being said here, on this interweb forum, could be true. If anything it is everyone else that is wrong, and Dwight is in the right. He is only doing all of this for the most altruistic reasons, I'm sure.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



chilltown said:


> I hope this guy gets booed out of every road arena. This is a joke.


He's going to get booed out of his home arena if Orlando doesn't trade him before the start of the year.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Now that Brooklyn has tied up their cap space to Lopez, Orlando should do us all a favor and amnesty Howard.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



hobojoe said:


> He's going to get booed out of his home arena if Orlando doesn't trade him before the start of the year.


Oh man that will be so funny.

I think this is really going to be the eye opener we wanted for these spoiled players demanding trades.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Laker Freak said:


> Now that Brooklyn has tied up their cap space to Lopez, Orlando should do us all a favor and amnesty Howard.


Why the hell would they do that?


----------



## 77AJ

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

I was hoping Howard would end up with the Nets or Bulls.

As of now the Nets are out, I'm a bit surprised the Magic turned down Lopez and four first round draft picks.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



TucsonClip said:


> Bucher just said on SC that Dwight may challenge the leagality of his opt in, because of improper inducements from the Magic.
> 
> What a joke


Jesus this guy just can't keep it together can he?


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

This is so pathetic.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



> @EricPincus
> Very interesting wrinkle - possibility of Scola amnesty to facilitate getting Howard to Rox per @Jonathan_Feigen


Interesting


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Luke said:


> This is so pathetic.


I like it. Dwights effectively turned himself into a laughing stock around the whole league.

I want him to get boo'ed. I want him to cry to the media saying he never wanted this, and everyone misunderstood him and this and that.


I've hated the guy since he pulled that arm around Van Gundy bullshit in that interview.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



TucsonClip said:


> Interesting


I'd say the deal is imminent.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Go Rockets!


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



TucsonClip said:


> Interesting





> With the Brooklyn Nets going another direction, the Rockets could be in the driver’s seat to land disgruntled Magic star center Dwight Howard. The problem, as it has been for months, is getting the continuing talks to go far enough.
> 
> Talks on Wednesday grew “serious,” and at one point seemed close to an agreement, according to a person familiar with the process, but the Magic backed off to consider their options.
> 
> Rockets are open to the three-team deal in which they would receive Lakers center Andrew Bynum with Howard going to the Los Angeles Lakers, but are primarily working directly with the Magic to acquire Howard, the individual with knowledge of the talks said.
> 
> Getting in position for the planned next move will be difficult. To create enough cap room for the kind of blockbuster trade that has been proposed, the Rockets are considering making veteran forward Luis Scola an amnesty cut, likely in the next 48 hours, a person with knowledge of the move said. That would create enough cap room for the Rockets to take on the additional contracts necessary to complete a trade for Howard.


http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterocke...sweepstakes-as-talks-with-magic-grow-serious/


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



R-Star said:


> I like it. Dwights effectively turned himself into a laughing stock around the whole league.
> 
> I want him to get boo'ed. I want him to cry to the media saying he never wanted this, and everyone misunderstood him and this and that.
> 
> 
> I've hated the guy since he pulled that arm around Van Gundy bullshit in that interview.


I don't like it. I lived in Orlando when Dwight was drafted. I went to plenty of his rookie games that year and he has been one of my favorite players for years now. But this entire mess of a situation has completely drained the enjoyment that I had watching Dwight play and the respect that I had for him as an individual. He's a joke.

I reserve the right to retract all statements if he comes to the Lakers.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Luke said:


> I don't like it. I lived in Orlando when Dwight was drafted. I went to plenty of his rookie games that year and he has been one of my favorite players for years now. But this entire mess of a situation has completely drained the enjoyment that I had watching Dwight play and the respect that I had for him as an individual. He's a joke.
> 
> I reserve the right to retract all statements if he comes to the Lakers.


He is a joke. 

Although I feel like a bit of a joke that I'm going to enjoy watching him get boo'ed on his home court quite a bit. Doesn't speak volumes for my character.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

I'm all for ridiculing Namrepus, but I do reserve the right to change my mind about him if he's a Rocket. :bsmile:


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Am I the only one completely expecting him to go somewhere, pull out a ring in the next 4-5 years, and get the sudden approval of all of the talking heads because "he really turned a corner after all that nasty trade business years back."


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



ChrisWoj said:


> Am I the only one completely expecting him to go somewhere, pull out a ring in the next 4-5 years, and get the sudden approval of all of the talking heads because "he really turned a corner after all that nasty trade business years back."


Inevitable. Just like Kobe has turned into some yoda like presence on ESPN when five years ago he was a loser and a primadona.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Dwight has handled this situation about as bad as anyone could possibly handle it. I'm tired of hearing about him.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

If Houston is seriously considering an amnesty of one of their two best players to take on more of Orlando's bad contracts, then I don't understand what the hold up is on Orlando's part - you aren't going to find a better deal than that. In fact, if Houston does all that it appears willing to do to get Dwight, I don't understand how they'd still improve the roster once he arrived there. If they get Dwight and miss the postseason b/c they traded Lowry and Martin and amnestied Scola, I can't see Dwight staying.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



> @WojYahooNBA
> Houston has decided to use the amnesty provision on Luis Scola and will likely file with NBA on Friday, league sources tell Y! Sports





> ‏@WojYahooNBA
> The Rockets will soon have the space to absorb Orlando's Dwight Howard, Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, Chris Duhon and Epcot Center.


Yikes


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

So they are intent on being the Houston Magic, then?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

They'll have enough cap space next year to give out two max deals. CP3 and Dwight??


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



TucsonClip said:


> Yikes


Now _that's_ what I'm talking about. Hennigan is going to do this the OKC way, get rid of the shit contracts, acquire picks and suck for a few years so your own picks are high. Please let this happen, getting Hedo, J-Rich and Duhon off the books would be fantastic.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Completely agree. I think the Rockets just guaranteed themselves Bynum or Dwight.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Houston's official twitter just followed Dwight, JRich, Duhon and Davis fwiw.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Will be funny to see Dwights fake "I'm happy to be here" act if this deal goes through.

"Will you resign?"

*"We'll worry about that later. I'm just concentrating on this season and making us a winner right now." Big smiles... Dwight*


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

That's basically a word for word quote of what I expect from the slime ball.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



R-Star said:


> Will be funny to see Dwights fake "I'm happy to be here" act if this deal goes through.
> 
> "Will you resign?"
> 
> *"We'll worry about that later. I'm just concentrating on this season and making us a winner right now." Big smiles... Dwight*


resign has two meanings btw


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



R-Star said:


> Will be funny to see Dwights fake "I'm happy to be here" act if this deal goes through.
> 
> "Will you resign?"
> 
> *"We'll worry about that later. I'm just concentrating on this season and making us a winner right now." Big smiles... Dwight*


I wish the Rockets still had Samuel Dalembert. He and Dwight have history and I feel like Dalembert would punch him in the face at practice before the season ends.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



e-monk said:


> resign has two meanings btw


Re sign. 


Obviously resigning his position is not what was meant.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



hobojoe said:


> I wish the Rockets still had Samuel Dalembert. He and Dwight have history and I feel like Dalembert would punch him in the face at practice before the season ends.


How funny would it be to see Dwight with a black eye or busted nose or something in an interview and still be trying to pull the whole 

"Nah, fight? Nah. I just slipped is all. Ha ha ha..... Everythings fine" -Big smile- _I'm a nice guy. Like me! Love me!_


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



R-Star said:


> Re sign.
> 
> 
> Obviously resigning his position is not what was meant.


dont worry we'll have plenty of time to debate the semantics over the next 8 to 12 months or so (he is retarded afterall)


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Houston's official twitter just followed Dwight, JRich, Duhon and Davis fwiw.


And Turkoglu.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Houston really will become Orlando Magic West huh.

They'll still need a PG also. Douglas and Duhon won't do the trick.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Wade County said:


> Houston really will become Orlando Magic West huh.
> 
> They'll still need a PG also. Douglas and Duhon won't do the trick.


oh they'll have a chance at a PG...


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

I know the plan is CP3...but kind of a long shot, no?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

CP3 isn't happening. I don't know why these teams all just keep assuming if they have cap space they can sign whoever they want.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



R-Star said:


> CP3 isn't happening. I don't know why these teams all just keep assuming if they have cap space they can sign whoever they want.


Never hurts to try, right?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Never hurts to try, right?


If it means amnestying Scola and having the teams future ride on hoping they can get prima dona Dwight to sign and lure Chris Paul who's already in a good situation, I just don't see it happening.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8162534/houston-rockets-reconstruct-trade-proposal-orlando-magic-center-dwight-howard



> Sources told ESPN.com that the Rockets, should they go ahead with their widely reported plans to release starting power forward Luis Scola via the NBA's amnesty clause, are *prepared to absorb the contracts of Jason Richardson, Glen Davis and Chris Duhon -- in addition to sending Orlando multiple future first-round picks and recent draftees -- to give the Magic an opportunity to wipe their payroll virtually clean for their post-Howard rebuilding effort.*
> 
> Rockets general manager Daryl Morey is feverishly trying to construct a trade that will allow the Rockets to take back, in addition to Howard, some combination of Richardson, Davis, Duhon and Hedo Turkoglu. The Rockets believe that, with Scola's three remaining seasons valued at roughly $21 million off the books, that they can create the requisite cap space to do so.





> Rockets officials, though, remain steadfast in their belief that, even if the Bulls decline to match on Asik, that they'll be able to *absorb at least three of the four aforementioned Magic role players: Richardson, Davis, Duhon and Turkoglu. Sources say that the Rockets would have to send Kevin Martin, Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris and Chandler Parsons to the Magic from their current roster to make the salary-cap math work, as well the draft rights to Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and Terrence Jones*, all selected in last month's first round.
> 
> 
> The Rockets, in addition, would also have to waive a handful of players with non-guaranteed contracts (Shaun Livingston, Courtney Fortson, Josh Harrellson, Jerome Jordan, Jon Leuer, Diamon Simpson and Greg Smith) to clear sufficient cap space. But Houston, sources say, is also offering multiple first-round picks to the Magic, including a potential lottery pick acquired this week from Toronto in the Kyle Lowry deal. Future picks are known to hold great appeal to new Magic general manager Rob Hennigan and no team in the recent running for Howard -- Brooklyn and the Los Angeles Lakers are the other two top suitors has a first-rounder of that caliber to send to Orlando.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

What a terrible deal for Houston.

I can't for the life of me understand why they'd do this deal.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

They'de become the Houston Magic


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

That some shit. Huge risk for Houston if it goes down. They're giving a hell of a lot for what seems to be a one year rental, throwing the Houston Magic squad out there on the court too. 

That's a nice return for Orlando though.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*

Morey has to be thinking this is a hit or miss and im fired. Without landing Dwight or Bynum, im not sure hes around much longer in Houston.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

It doesn't get any better than this.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

The way I see it, Houston is either landing Bynum or Howard. If Dwight decides that he'd rather compete with the Lakers than the scraps he'd have in Houston then they rework the deal with Bynum going to Houston. It's on Howard now, barring some miraculous proposal by another team.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> The way I see it, Houston is either landing Bynum or Howard. If Dwight decides that he'd rather compete with the Lakers than the scraps he'd have in Houston then they rework the deal with Bynum going to Houston. It's on Howard now, barring some miraculous proposal by another team.


Seriously?

Are you in serious denial or what? *DH12 doesn't want to play on the Lakers!* Period. Exclamation Point. Why the **** would he now say to Orlando management, "I want the Lakers?" I mean why would he do that? Why does he even care, really?

From what it sounds like, he'd much rather play in Turkey for the upcoming season than toil in Los Angeles.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

This is a good deal for Orlando.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Are you in serious denial or what? *DH12 doesn't want to play on the Lakers!* Period. Exclamation Point. Why the **** would he now say to Orlando management, "I want the Lakers?" I mean why would he do that? Why does he even care, really?
> 
> From what it sounds like, he'd much rather play in Turkey for the upcoming season than toil in Los Angeles.


He also doesn't want to play in Houston. Doesn't really matter to Orlando. Just whatever gets them the best deal.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Houston is willing to do this regardless. The Magic could give a crap less about Dwight. They knew all along that Houston would be willing to take him on and give the best package. Im not sure why this wasnt done a week ago.


----------



## jayk009

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

who would houston have left after Dwight gets there?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



TucsonClip said:


> Houston is willing to do this regardless. The Magic could give a crap less about Dwight. They knew all along that Houston would be willing to take him on and give the best package. Im not sure why this wasnt done a week ago.


It wasn't done a week ago because Morey wasn't doing 'shrooms apparently until today.

He's out of his ****ing mind. It's an insane deal that will relegate the Rockets to Bobcats status if it blows up and Dwightmare walks away next Summer.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> It wasn't done a week ago because Morey wasn't doing 'shrooms apparently until today.
> 
> He's out of his ****ing mind. It's an insane deal that will relegate the Rockets to Bobcats status if it blows up and Dwightmare walks away next Summer.


Yep. They'll be left with no Dwight, shit contracts, no draft picks and not much else.


Its franchise suicide.


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



jayk009 said:


> who would houston have left after Dwight gets there?


Furkan Aldemir 
Toney Douglas	
Gary Forbes	
Courtney Fortson 
Josh Harrellson 
Jerome Jordan 
Jon Leuer	
Donatas Motiejunas 
Luis Scola (Amnesty) 
Diamon Simpson 
Greg Smith 
Jason Richardson
Glen Davis
Chris Duhon
Hedo Turkuglu
Dwight Howard

Something close to this.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Are you in serious denial or what? *DH12 doesn't want to play on the Lakers!* Period. Exclamation Point. Why the **** would he now say to Orlando management, "I want the Lakers?" I mean why would he do that? Why does he even care, really?
> 
> From what it sounds like, he'd much rather play in Turkey for the upcoming season than toil in Los Angeles.


Because up until a day ago the Brooklyn Nets were still an option. And up until a few days before that we didn't have Steve ****ing Nash as our point guard. What part of that don't you understand? Now that the Nets are out of the picture he may have to, oh you know, change his mind. Like he's been doing the whole ****ing time. Your condescending tone is getting annoying btw. Chill out.


----------



## LA68

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Certain teams like Lakers, San Antonio... They don't do deal unless they have the upper hand. And they win year after year. The Lakers wouldn't do either deal. They wouldn't gut their team for one guy. And they wouldn't take back bad contracts. They found a team to take Luke Walton for goodness sake !

The Lakers will never give all that Houston is giving. And they'll get a signed extension too. And of course they will never beg a player to take $18 million and live in L.A.

Orlando is desperate and backed into a corner. Houston should take advantage yet, instead they are bending over for Orlando. Rockets deserve whatever they get.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> It wasn't done a week ago because Morey wasn't doing 'shrooms apparently until today.
> 
> He's out of his ****ing mind. It's an insane deal that will relegate the Rockets to Bobcats status if it blows up and Dwightmare walks away next Summer.


Well either way, I think Morey knows this is his last shot before he either leaves or is fired. If he can land Dwight and keep him, Morey would stay, otherwise im guessing he gets fired or doesnt have his contract extended.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

The west is competitive as **** with LA back in the picture, OKC, Clippers and never under estimate Spurs and Mavs... I don't see any scenario where Dwight would be happy in Houston. He will be fighting for a first round exit or playoff spot. Plus, he doesn't look like he will have a lot of help anyway...

This deal is horrible for Houston. 

The question I am wondering though... If Dwight decides to walk next year, what team have the money to sign him? Lakers and Nets won't be under the cap right?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

That's the point. I doubt there will be a team with max cap space next year that is "on his list" anyway.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

I'll be ecstatic if some form of this deal goes through (and I think it will). Clearing all the cap space, potentially getting that Raptors 1st rounder Houston got in the Lowry deal, all the young guys coming Orlando's way. No future superstars, but some nice pieces and a fresh start. Can't ask for anything more.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

When ish like this happens, owners are involved. Morey is not this stupid.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Are you in serious denial or what? *DH12 doesn't want to play on the Lakers!* Period. Exclamation Point. Why the **** would he now say to Orlando management, "I want the Lakers?" I mean why would he do that? Why does he even care, really?
> 
> From what it sounds like, he'd much rather play in Turkey for the upcoming season than toil in Los Angeles.


It amazes me that you continue to say that considering you've been wrong about everything Dwight Howard so far. Remember when you said the trade with Brooklyn was imminent days ago?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Jamel Irief said:


> It amazes me that you continue to say that considering you've been wrong about everything Dwight Howard so far. Remember when you said the trade with Brooklyn was imminent days ago?


I didn't say it was imminent. I quoted Twitter that it was imminent. I know better than to predict anything at all about Dwightmare. Get your facts straight, archivist.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

I don't see why the Rox have to do this. Unless ATL is making a better offer than we would think, they're just bidding against themselves. This is much better than just Bynum straight up. You get young players on cheap contracts and you dump all of your worst deals. Hennigan should sign on the dotted line before they change their mind.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Because up until a day ago the Brooklyn Nets were still an option. And up until a few days before that we didn't have Steve ****ing Nash as our point guard. What part of that don't you understand? Now that the Nets are out of the picture he may have to, oh you know, change his mind. Like he's been doing the whole ****ing time. Your condescending tone is getting annoying btw. Chill out.


Sorry about the tone, but it really is exasperating to see Laker fans glom onto anything that anyone says, really believing it would happen. In all of this talk about the Lakers being involved in Howard talks, we haven't heard a peep out of the Lakers. It's been all media.

I think if there have been any talks at all between the two teams, its been fishing by the Lakers. They aren't going to give up anything of value for this guy. And they won't be a trade partner with Orlando unless Dwightmare commits, which he will never do.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> I didn't say it was imminent. I quoted Twitter that it was imminent. I know better than to predict anything at all about Dwightmare. Get your facts straight, archivist.


My facts are straight, you're wrong. 

http://www.basketballforum.com/6906693-post12.html



> Howard is going to the Nets, guys. Just a matter of time, and re-working all the players and teams to resolve the issue once and for all.


Chill with know it all attitude maybe? You're guessing like everyone else.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

This thread has officially begun to depress me. To cheer myself up, I have decided to watch this video 5 times on repeat. 






I suggest you do the same.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Ron said:


> magic/rockets proposal


I've been on board with the Rockets making a run at Dwight, but that is a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible deal.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Jamel Irief said:


> My facts are straight, you're wrong.
> 
> http://www.basketballforum.com/6906693-post12.html
> 
> 
> 
> Chill with know it all attitude maybe? You're guessing like everyone else.


It's a guess, it didn't say it was imminent.

Are you going to be honest, or disingenuous?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



Floods said:


> I've been on board with the Rockets making a run at Dwight, but that is a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible deal.


Morey is on 'shrooms, I tell ya.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



RollWithEm said:


> This thread has officially begun to depress me. To cheer myself up, I have decided to watch this video 5 times on repeat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you do the same.


With the quality of some music being released these days, that could be a Top 10 hit.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> It's a guess, it didn't say it was imminent.
> 
> Are you going to be honest, or disingenuous?


Like I said, you're guessing like everyone else.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

This deal is at least a hundred times better for Orlando than any of those crackpot schemes that the Nets were trying to cobble together. You get a potential lottery pick, a huge expiring contract and young guys with potential. Parsons actually looks like a guy who could be a good starting caliber player. All of those deals were too farfetched and complicated to be true, plus Orlando was getting screwed. This deal seems almost too good to be true.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Orlando just needs to accept. They'll never find a team more desperate to get a mere whiff of a superstar. I think Orlando's ideal would be to have a centerpiece to the deal, such as Bynum, but there's no reason to believe Bynum will warm to Orlando, so essentially this is it. They get all those young players and picks. Plus they can flip Kevin Martin's expiring to a playoff team desiring a boost for an additional pick or young player.

Maybe Houston thinks they can flip Dwight for Bynum at the trade deadline if things are looking down, I don't know. It seems to put them in a corner where they can't do damage in a deep Western Conference. He'd just leave for Atlanta or Dallas in the offseason...


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Just saw what the trade is potentially going to be on Sportscenter, my god houston, what are you doing?! They honestly think they can make Dwight Howard stay? That is a BIG gamble, and it could end up ****ing them over in the end. Horrible deal.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Nobody is answering the freaking question: Where is Dwight Howard going next offseason?

As in, the cap and luxury tax start to bite next year, no current contender will have capspace plus the S&T rules will change...so where could he go?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

The best teams w/ cap would be Houston (pre-DH trade), Dallas, or Atlanta.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Now watch Dwight get traded to Houston and then sign a max contract with Orlando next summer when he realizes the Rockets have a terrible supporting cast.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



R-Star said:


> What a terrible deal for Houston.
> 
> I can't for the life of me understand why they'd do this deal.


Because next year's draft sucks donkey balls and the 14th pick next year has only a marginal shot of ever starting an NBA game, much less helping the Rockets out of their rut. And Houston has 14% of all NBA power forwards at this point, and not one of them are really good enough to start on a winning team. 

If this works, and Howard re-signs, and they land Paul next summer, they're a long term contender. If it doesn't and Howard leaves, then they suck donkey balls in front of the much better Parker/Randle and Wiggins drafts, and can rebuild in earnest. Right now they're trapped in 40 win purgatory and need to get the hell out.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



E.H. Munro said:


> Because next year's draft sucks donkey balls and the 14th pick next year has only a marginal shot of ever starting an NBA game, much less helping the Rockets out of their rut. And Houston has 14% of all NBA power forwards at this point, and not one of them are really good enough to start on a winning team.
> 
> If this works, and Howard re-signs, and they land Paul next summer, they're a long term contender. If it doesn't and Howard leaves, then they suck donkey balls in front of the much better Parker/Randle and Wiggins drafts, and can rebuild in earnest. Right now they're trapped in 40 win purgatory and need to get the hell out.


well they're certainly getting the hell out but one wonders if maybe they could have gotten out a little less enthusiastically and still achieved the same goals


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Even still, why have all those contracts on hand? There's no justification for that.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Dallas will have enough cap space to give him the max deal?

If that is the case, that is a very dangerous gamble that Houston is doing...


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Yeah, as of right now, Dallas have more money next year than they did this year b/c Kaman, Vince, Roddy, Collison, Wright, Dahntay and Dominique (team option) will all expire, plus Haywood amnestied.


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Why would Dwight want to go to Dallas?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Luke said:


> Why would Dwight want to go to Dallas?


Why does he want to go to Brooklyn?

Have you been to Brooklyn?


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Jamel Irief said:


> Like I said, you're guessing like everyone else.


Like I said, you are disingenuous.

Guess that makes us even. :whatever:


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> Like I said, you are disingenuous.
> 
> Guess that makes us even. :whatever:


Ron: "Lakers fan are in denial! Dwight does not want to play in LA!"

Jamel: "You also said Dwight was going to the Nets shortly, you're guessing like everyone else"

Ron: "Did I say that was happening or was I guessing?"

Jamel: "you were guessing, just like the guy that said Dwight was going to LA and everyone else"

Ron: "You are disingenuous"

So that being said, you're guesses about Dwight not wanting to go to LA are as valid as his guess that he does. Nobody can predict any of this shit, but you're the only one saying certain people are in denial.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Ron said:


> Why does he want to go to Brooklyn?
> 
> Have you been to Brooklyn?


Brooklyn is about 50 times cooler thand Dallas (plus Manhattan)


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Dee-Zy said:


> Dallas will have enough cap space to give him the max deal?
> 
> If that is the case, that is a very dangerous gamble that Houston is doing...


Dwight's a big man coming off a back injury. Does anyone really believe that he's leaving $23 million on the table to go someplace else?


----------



## LA68

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



Jamel Irief said:


> Ron: "Lakers fan are in denial! Dwight does not want to play in LA!"
> 
> Jamel: "You also said Dwight was going to the Nets shortly, you're guessing like everyone else"
> 
> Ron: "Did I say that was happening or was I guessing?"
> 
> Jamel: "you were guessing, just like the guy that said Dwight was going to LA and everyone else"
> 
> Ron: "You are disingenuous"
> 
> So that being said, you're guesses about Dwight not wanting to go to LA are as valid as his guess that he does. Nobody can predict any of this shit, but you're the only one saying certain people are in denial.


Fellas ! Trying to read Dwight's mind is like staring at a rorschach test. Everybody have their own ideas of what he "should" do. But, there is no right answer. 

Its not like he could go out and avg. 30ppg for this new team. He's great on defense but, the offense isn't that special. He needs players around him. Gut your team and he can't really help you.


----------



## Maravilla

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

I thought Dwight wanted to leave Orlando. Not take Orlando with him?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



MemphisX said:


> Nobody is answering the freaking question: Where is Dwight Howard going next offseason?
> 
> As in, the cap and luxury tax start to bite next year, no current contender will have capspace plus the S&T rules will change...so where could he go?


It's hard to say. Dwight wants to be in Brooklyn and it's become obvious at this point that it can't happen atm. 

Honestly, it's gotten to the point where it's hard to care. Considering how even if Howard doesn't get traded to Brooklyn, and lets say he gets traded to Houston, we already know that Howard will most likely end up leaving the team at the end of the year and will try to go to Brooklyn, and we know Brooklyn will do what ever they can to get him there. So at this point it's hard to give a shit.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

But Brooklyn can't do anything to get him there...Houston would have his bird rights and Brooklyn no cap space. He'd have to sign w/ Houston or go to another team w/ cap room.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Houston can sign and trade him, which would be the most likely.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

But why would they trade him to Brooklyn? Houston would be trying to force him to stay, and even if he said he'd leave, his only leverage would be signing elsewhere in free agency, so those teams will lobby for him. Brooklyn would have no cap and therefore no leverage. Other teams w/ cap could at least take back the contracts Houston took on to get him there, plus better picks. Brooklyn would be right back offering Brooks, Humphries, and Lopez on long-term deals. Houston would do what Orlando is contemplating now...taking the best offer.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

I wouldnt rule out Brooklyn, but at least they know they have someone who wuld be interested in a sign and trade. Im just saying, if they get Dwight and he doesnt want to stay, they will definitely try to sign and trade him over him walking, meaning BK is an option.


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

Darryl Morey is really doing poorly. It's fine to pursue a defensive anchor, who was once firmly a top 10 player with no baggage (at the time). But now...

What am I missing? Isn't Scola capable of performing like Pau Gasol, minus some rebounding, for half the salary? He'll probably be better than Brook Lopez and less of a complainer than Bynum.

After the inexplicable Lowry trade for nothing.

Can't Howard just sit out the whole year, or 50 games due to surgery, then leave? And he can't hit free throws.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



E.H. Munro said:


> Because next year's draft sucks donkey balls and the 14th pick next year has only a marginal shot of ever starting an NBA game, much less helping the Rockets out of their rut. And Houston has 14% of all NBA power forwards at this point, and not one of them are really good enough to start on a winning team.
> 
> If this works, and Howard re-signs, and they land Paul next summer, they're a long term contender. If it doesn't and Howard leaves, then they suck donkey balls in front of the much better Parker/Randle and Wiggins drafts, and can rebuild in earnest. Right now they're trapped in 40 win purgatory and need to get the hell out.


So if that's the case why not keep the draft picks that "won't help" and trade away contracts for expirings right now to set themselves up for not only being in good shape for Wiggins, but also having a clean slate roster wise at that point?

Trading draft picks and picking up big multi year contracts is not rebuilding EH.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



jokeaward said:


> Darryl Morey is really doing poorly. It's fine to pursue a defensive anchor, who was once firmly a top 10 player with no baggage (at the time). But now...
> 
> What am I missing? Isn't Scola capable of performing like Pau Gasol, minus some rebounding, for half the salary? He'll probably be better than Brook Lopez and less of a complainer than Bynum.


the Rockets owe Scola 30 over 3 and the Lakers owe Pau 38 over two, so half? no (and then factor in one less year as ad-Pau given the pain coming down the road in LUX penalties)

and Pau is actually a true 7 foot all star level center playing out of position at PF and still superior in every way to Scola despite playing out of position

at best Scola can do some of the things at his natural position that Pau can do flexed away from his natural position just not as well and for not that much less

pick him up for 3m though? that's a steal

as for less of a complainer than Bynum? so what? also less of any kind of a factor because Im not sure his impact on the rockets last year was much more significant than that Dalembert or Dragic or Lowry or Martin - he certainly wasnt the second best player on the rockets as I've read in this thread - the best you can say about him is he didnt get hurt


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*



> @Lakerholicz: And @dalridgetnt is reporting that the Rockets are offering to take just ONE bad contract back, not three as reported previously.


..


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Magic and Rockets Discussing DH12 13-Player Transaction on Friday the 13th*

*Dwight update: Not close to a trade with Rockets*




> Friday came and went, and just like all the other days that have passed since June 24, 2004, Dwight Howard was still a member of the Orlando Magic.
> 
> Despite the Houston Rockets using the amnesty provision to waive forward Luis Scola, there was no trade of Howard from Orlando to Houston, and sources briefed on the talks between the two sides said the teams weren’t nearly as close to a trade as many have speculated. That can change in an instant, of course, but late Friday, there was no deal.
> 
> Talks between the two sides are “not active,” one source said Friday.
> 
> “There’s nothing happening,” another source said.
> 
> The Rockets, according to a league source briefed on the discussions, are willing to take one bad contract back from the Magic, not two or three, as has been speculated. And in return, Houston will give up one of the their three first-round picks in last month’s Draft– Jeremy Lamb, Royce White or Terrence Jones –but only one.
> 
> The Rockets would be willing to send a future draft pick to Orlando –presumably the Lottery-protected first-rounder Houston received this week from Toronto for guard Kyle Lowry — and send a veteran player to the Magic, helping Orlando clear $10 to $15 million worth of cap room, in exchange for the six-time All-Star and three-time Defensive Player of the Year.
> 
> Orlando has several high-priced contracts it would like to clear if it opts to trade Howard, including forward Hedo Turkoglu (two years, $23.4 million remaining, though the last year of the deal is not fully guaranteed) and guards Jason Richardson (three years, $18.6 million) and Chris Duhon (two years, $7.2 million).
> 
> Waiving Scola, who was due $20.6 million over the next three seasons, was not done just to give Houston a better shot at Howard, according to the source. With the Rockets in full pursuit of Howard, however, keeping a high-priced player like Scola on the roster didn’t make much sense going forward — especially if Houston isn’t successful in getting Howard.
> 
> By cutting Scola now, the Rockets will be able to take a big contract back at any point this season if it suits their rebuilding plans. After spending the last three years trapped in NBA mediocrity following the injuries to and eventual retirement of franchise center Yao Ming, the Rockets are determined to land a star or construct a roster of players with the potential to become stars.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, Orlando continues to take a methodical approach toward dealing Howard, who has indicated the only team with whom he’d be willing to sign a contract extension after this season is Brooklyn. Howard has been adamant that he would not re-sign in Houston if traded there.
> 
> However, the Rockets remain convinced they can change his mind once he gets to town. He has a strong relationship with Rockets legend and Hall of Fame center Hakeem Olajuwon, who told FoxSportsFlorida Friday night that he’d been asked to reach out to Howard if and when a trade is made.
> 
> Orlando is determined trade Howard on its own timetable, when it gets the combination of picks and young players it wants. The Magic, who are still looking to hire a new coach and just hired new general manager Rob Hennigan late last month, may be trying to replicate the formula used by the Nuggets in 2011, when Denver held onto forward Carmelo Anthony for months and months until the Knicks offered a package featuring Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov for a Denver package featuring Anthony and Chauncey Billups.
> 
> Orlando is continuing to talk to other teams, including the Lakers. But after sending two future firsts and two seconds to the Suns in the sign and trade deal for Steve Nash, Los Angeles is out of Draft picks to offer in the near future. The Nets are out of the picture for the foreseeable future after re-signing center Brook Lopez, who was supposed to be the centerpiece of any offer to Orlando for Howard, to a four-year, $60.8 million deal earlier this week. Under league rules Brooklyn cannot trade Lopez until Jan. 15.


----------



## roux

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I am so sick of this.. i couldnt imagine how a magic fan feels right now


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Honestly, at this point, the only thing I see happening is Howard being traded to LA and then Houston getting Bynum and then Orlando getting what ever the hell they can get in return. This has gotten out of hand. Howard screwed himself over when he decided to stick it out with Orlando for another year, and he has buried himself into a deep hole now that he's regretting it RIGHT AFTER the freakin season ended. It's pathetic. 

I don't care if Howard doesn't (allegedly) want to play in LA. At this point he needs to just ****ing do it if he wants to get out of Orlando so badly. Otherwise he needs to just suck it up and play it out in Orlando for one more year, or close to the trading deadline when and if the Nets try to make a trade for him again.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I like how previous it was "an inside source" saying they'd take back that god awful package, and now its a "speculated package"

Are these guys ****ing kidding me? The media has absolutely no shame on this matter.

It was pretty clear that deal was way too good for Orlando and way too shit for Houston.

God I hope Howard is still on the Magic to start next season.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



roux2dope said:


> I am so sick of this.. i couldnt imagine how a magic fan feels right now


Think of how much the Magic players themselves ****ing hate this guy now. I doubt they'll even be able to pretend they don't hate him once the regular season rolls around.

A guy like Glen Davis goes from an amazing playoff performance and the vocal leader of the Magic to yesterday being a contract Orlando is "speculated" as throwing in to get rid of.


Dwight Howard must be the most hated man in the league right now as far as players are concerned.


----------



## Floods

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

As long as this clown never gets to go to Brooklyn, I'm fine.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I want big smiles and "I signed the contract last year didn't I? I want to be here. I've always wanted to be here..... That other stuff? That's just media man. That's you guys making a story where there is none." going in to next season. That's what I'm hoping for here.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

That sounds like a plan Star, give me a min...


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



R-Star said:


> So if that's the case why not keep the draft picks that "won't help" and trade away contracts for expirings right now to set themselves up for not only being in good shape for Wiggins, but also having a clean slate roster wise at that point?


What deals for expirings? Have you looked at their roster? Aside from Scola it's comprised of one large expiring deal and NBA 6th-9th guys on rookie deals. Ain't no expirings to be traded for. I guess they could give those guys away for nothing, but then what are they supposed to spend their money on? There is an NBA salary floor. And what happens when they don't win the lottery and get stuck drafting 4th-8th, where the drafting of bench depth guys will start in 2013, when they end up with yet another bench depth player? 

When you have the chance, you go all in. If Howard leaves then they end up exactly where you're saying they should be. But they'd suck in the right years. 2013 ain't the year to suck. 2014 & 2015? Those are pretty good years to suck. Big Gravy won't prevent them from sucking donkey balls if Howard leaves and he becomes the starting center with Turkeyglue as the starting 4.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



E.H. Munro said:


> What deals for expirings? Have you looked at their roster? Aside from Scola it's comprised of one large expiring deal and NBA 6th-9th guys on rookie deals. Ain't no expirings to be traded for. I guess they could give those guys away for nothing, but then what are they supposed to spend their money on? There is an NBA salary floor. And what happens when they don't win the lottery and get stuck drafting 4th-8th, where the drafting of bench depth guys will start in 2013, when they end up with yet another bench depth player?
> 
> When you have the chance, you go all in. If Howard leaves then they end up exactly where you're saying they should be. But they'd suck in the right years. 2013 ain't the year to suck. 2014 & 2015? Those are pretty good years to suck. Big Gravy won't prevent them from sucking donkey balls if Howard leaves and he becomes the starting center with Turkeyglue as the starting 4.


We were talking about the garbage contracts coming along side Howard in the trade EH.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Odds that Orlando's office phones are illegally tapped by a reporter

4:1 at this point. 

There is no way that an organization is as stupid as to broadcast every little dumb idea that is thrown out there in trading time. I bet teams call up the Lakers offering some really good players for Kobe. That doesn't mean anything.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Hyperion said:


> Odds that Orlando's office phones are illegally tapped by a reporter
> 
> 4:1 at this point.
> 
> There is no way that an organization is as stupid as to broadcast every little dumb idea that is thrown out there in trading time. I bet teams call up the Lakers offering some really good players for Kobe. That doesn't mean anything.


Well that's just it. The sheer amount of people who believe that the whole inside operations of Orlando, Brooklyn, Houston, LAL, LAC, Cleveland, etc are just open to reporters blows my mind.

"This just in, second ago the Magic agreed to consider player x being added......." shut the **** up Woj and every other _sports analyst_ talking to their _insiders_ and _sources_. Anyone with a brain should understand that if there ever was a source to any of this, they probably would have been rooted out by now since every supposed aspect of every supposed deal have been leaked.

Remember a couple weeks ago when that Orlando dude broke the story about Dwight being gone in a matter of days?
Remember this week where Dwight to Brooklyn was a done deal for the 5th time?
Remember the last couple of days where Houston was going to swallow a load of shit just to get Dwight for one year and then have nothing to put around him?

All from a handful of guys on here quoting twitter accounts. Not one actual source has ever been quoted. Once.

At the very least don't you think a guy like Glen Davis would say "I don't know man, I haven't heard anything." and that would at least be credible? Wouldn't any credible media outlet try to talk to someone? Well no, not if they want to keep their hoax stories alive and leave any bit of reality out of them.


----------



## Diable

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

If this alleged Rocket deal had been a real trade offer Orlando would have almost certainly jumped on it by now. There's no way they could get a better deal under the circumstances, but it seems really unlikely that Houston was ever going to bend that far over. That deal is so much better than anything on offer it is hard to imagine it even being close to realistic.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Diable said:


> If this alleged Rocket deal had been a real trade offer Orlando would have almost certainly jumped on it by now. There's no way they could get a better deal under the circumstances, but it seems really unlikely that Houston was ever going to bend that far over. That deal is so much better than anything on offer it is hard to imagine it even being close to realistic.


Yep. Here's some draft picks, young talent and expiring deals. Give us Dwight and all your shit contracts now please.


----------



## Ron

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



roux2dope said:


> I am so sick of this.. i couldnt imagine how a magic fan feels right now


Tuned out.

That is, if they want to keep their sanity.


----------



## hroz

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I am a Rockets fan i gotta say the deal just looks ****........

What the f is Morey thinking.........

And now we have lost Scola too.


----------



## hobojoe

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



roux2dope said:


> I am so sick of this.. i couldnt imagine how a magic fan feels right now


Honestly, not bad. At the end of the day, chatter is just chatter. If we end up getting a good deal, from our perspective it's all worth it. I would much rather have to listen to this noise drag on for months and get a great deal than have a quick resolution and rebuild around Brook ****ing Lopez on a max deal or something like that.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE#32,983: Magic suspend trade talks on Dwight Howard to focus on coaching search*



R-Star said:


> We were talking about the garbage contracts coming along side Howard in the trade EH.


Last time I checked the Magic don't have any six year max deals. All the contracts they have are of the 2 or 3 year remaining variety. So, again, even if Howard left they'd suck in front of two pretty good drafts.


----------



## Firefight

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Orlando media reporting Howard deal to Lakers is imminent. With Bynum going to Cleveland, and picks going to Orlando.


----------



## Floods

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Bynum to Cleveland? Very interesting.


----------



## Dissonance

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Didn't they do that before? Not believing anything til more reports.


----------



## e-monk

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

is that douchebag gilbert seriously going to abet the creation of another super team?


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Are you guys really going to get suckered in here again?


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



e-monk said:


> is that douchebag gilbert seriously going to abet the creation of another super team?


If he gets Bynum out of the deal, he's all over it


----------



## e-monk

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

match made in heaven - ooh Jamison S&T!?


----------



## hobojoe

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Would be a hell of a move for the Cavs if they can keep Bynum long term. Irving and Bynum is a very good start. Obviously the Lakers are as legit contenders as anyone with Howard in the mix. Magic get what they want, probably shed a contract or two, get picks and young guys. The only loser appears to be Dwight Howard...and Ron.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



hobojoe said:


> Magic get what they want


A shit sandwich with extra cheese smothered in jack sauce?


----------



## hobojoe

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



E.H. Munro said:


> A shit sandwich with extra cheese smothered in jack sauce?


Considering the exact details are unknown at this point, one can only assume it would have to be a package similar (deemed to be better by the Magic) to what the Rockets are offering in terms young guys, picks and the contract(s) they'll be able to get rid of. The Houston rumors clearly have some truth to them too since they've actually _done_ something (waiving Scola) rather than just a bunch of alleged talk.


----------



## hroz

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Cavs Bynum Irving is beastly.

Waiters Thompson are tradeable there.


----------



## Luke

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I'd love it if he resigned here but I'm not going to hold my breath.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

So when this one falls through, because its mostly fabrication by the media, what trade is next?

"Sources say Indiana has interest out of nowhere. Offering Hibbert and George and willing to take on any and all bad contract. Click link for more info"

Its never ending. 

This deal won't happen, just like the other 50 deals didn't happen. 

If Cleveland could have got Bynum why is this all of the sudden news now? They couldn't get him a week ago? Orlando is only negotiating 1 deal at a time? 
"Hey Orlando, we'd consider offering Griffin and draft picks for......." 
"Let me stop you right there. We're currently talking with the Lakers. 1 deal at a time please."


How gullible is everyone?


----------



## hobojoe

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I'm sure there's partial truths with most of this stuff, you just never know exactly what's going on and who's driving what talks. Houston's already amnestied Scola, maybe they didn't want to include a player or pick that Orlando really wants and these talks are just the Magic trying to gain some leverage in their talks with Houston. The perception a few days ago was largely that Houston was bidding against themselves.

Whatever the case is, eventually something has to happen.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



R-Star said:


> So when this one falls through, because its mostly fabrication by the media, what trade is next?
> 
> "Sources say Indiana has interest out of nowhere. Offering Hibbert and George and willing to take on any and all bad contract. Click link for more info"
> 
> Its never ending.
> 
> This deal won't happen, just like the other 50 deals didn't happen.
> 
> *If Cleveland could have got Bynum why is this all of the sudden news now? They couldn't get him a week ago? *Orlando is only negotiating 1 deal at a time?
> "Hey Orlando, we'd consider offering Griffin and draft picks for......."
> "Let me stop you right there. We're currently talking with the Lakers. 1 deal at a time please."
> 
> 
> How gullible is everyone?


Just because these deals aren't going through doesn't mean they aren't being discussed.

Also, regarding the part I bolded, I think there's some parts about this you don't get. First, this is just now involving the Lakers. There's absolutely no way Cleveland would be able to land Bynum by dealing with JUST the Lakers. The magic offering up Howard suddenly makes Bynum going to Cleveland a possibility, just as long as the deal itself can end up falling through and it ends up happening (I for one would love for this deal to happen so we can have Bynum and Irving on the same team, even if Bynum ends up only staying for one year). Without the Magic, the only way Bynum could possibly go to Cleveland is if he played with LA next season, became a free agent and then signed with him. Other than that, this is their only way. So to answer your question, no, they couldn't get him a week ago.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Just because these deals aren't going through doesn't mean they aren't being discussed.
> 
> Also, regarding the part I bolded, I think there's some parts about this you don't get. First, this is just now involving the Lakers. There's absolutely no way Cleveland would be able to land Bynum by dealing with JUST the Lakers. The magic offering up Howard suddenly makes Bynum going to Cleveland a possibility, just as long as the deal itself can end up falling through and it ends up happening (I for one would love for this deal to happen so we can have Bynum and Irving on the same team, even if Bynum ends up only staying for one year). Without the Magic, the only way Bynum could possibly go to Cleveland is if he played with LA next season, became a free agent and then signed with him. Other than that, this is their only way. So to answer your question, no, they couldn't get him a week ago.


Howard to LA has supposedly been on and off discussions for months. This isn't new.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



R-Star said:


> Howard to LA has supposedly been on and off discussions for months. This isn't new.


But Cleveland being involved in the mix is.


----------



## R-Star

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



XxIrvingxX said:


> But Cleveland being involved in the mix is.


Why?

You honestly think when Cleveland was supposedly involved with the Nets deal previously no one in Clevelands office ever though to go in on previous LA deals?


Seriously?


----------



## Ron

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*


----------



## Diable

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Would have been better if you'd used a picture of lottery balls going South, Ron.


----------



## jayk009

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



hobojoe said:


> Would be a hell of a move for the Cavs if they can keep Bynum long term. Irving and Bynum is a very good start. Obviously the Lakers are as legit contenders as anyone with Howard in the mix. Magic get what they want, probably shed a contract or two, get picks and young guys. The only loser appears to be Dwight Howard...and Ron.


oh boo hoo for Dwight Howard, he goes on a team with Steve Nash, Kobe Bryant, and Pau Gasol, where he will have a great chance at a title and will be treated like a hero in LA, how sad he will be...


----------



## Ron

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Diable said:


> Would have been better if you'd used a picture of lottery balls going South, Ron.


Ha ha, good idea. I'll try that revision later tonight.


----------



## Dissonance

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I wouldn't even dignify this rumor.


----------



## Hyperion

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

My source is speculating dwight to phoenix for gortat and change. 

I may be my own source....


----------



## Ron

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*


----------



## Ron

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Dissonance said:


> I wouldn't even dignify this rumor.


Mitch Kupchak was on The Herd on Friday morning and basically said (without actually saying it) that 90% of these rumors are pure bullshit.


----------



## Ron

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Aaaaaaannnnnddd were are back to square one again...as if we ever left it.

Per Twitter:




> Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> High-ranking officials from several teams involved in Dwight Howard chase say all recent talks now dead. "Cavs walked away again," says one.


----------



## Ron

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*


----------



## Maravilla

*re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Ron said:


>




TECHNICALLY..... thats revision 6.:funk:


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



chilltown said:


> TECHNICALLY..... thats revision 6.:funk:


:laugh:

Maybe, but nothing was different but the graphic, so I didn't update it.

I am trying to legitimately see how many rumor-changes we have had since...well, I guess since July 1.

God only knows how many times this has swirled around the media since this thread opened last December.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Nice change EHM.

Very appropriate.


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Ugh, just trade him to Charlotte for Biyombo and Kemba, they'll win 22 games and he'll fade away.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Maybe, but nothing was different but the graphic, so I didn't update it.
> 
> I am trying to legitimately see how many rumor-changes we have had since...well, I guess since July 1.
> 
> God only knows how many times this has swirled around the media since this thread opened last December.


Just count the thread title changes. I wanted to track how many times it would change but someone trashed it. 

Would be cool to see how many times it's changed in the threads history.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Jamel Irief said:


> Would be cool to see how many times it's changed in the threads history.


Title has changed exactly 40 times up until this moment. You can keep track of it from here.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I just heard that real madrid has entered the picture and are offering Casillas, Benzema and Pepe plus cash considerations not sure Dwight is worth that though


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Ron said:


> Mitch Kupchak was on The Herd on Friday morning and basically said (without actually saying it) that 90% of these rumors are pure bullshit.


That came from his inside source. Who is R-Star.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



RollWithEm said:


> Title has changed exactly 40 times up until this moment. You can keep track of it from here.


How?


----------



## rynobot

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Yeah, regular members can't see that kind of shit.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Don't worry, Jamel. I will keep you posted.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Ron said:


> Aaaaaaannnnnddd were are back to square one again...as if we ever left it.
> 
> Per Twitter:


Cmon Cavs stop backing out. Just do this already. I'm sick of hearing about this. I could care less if we end up seeing another superteam at this point, I just want all of this to end. And cmon how can you say no to Bynum?! (a very stupid question but I could care less at this point.)


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



R-Star said:


> Why?
> 
> You honestly think when Cleveland was supposedly involved with the Nets deal previously no one in Clevelands office ever though to go in on previous LA deals?
> 
> 
> Seriously?


We're talking about Cleveland here...what do you think??


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Cmon Cavs stop backing out. Just do this already. I'm sick of hearing about this. I could care less if we end up seeing another superteam at this point, I just want all of this to end. And cmon how can you say no to Bynum?! (a very stupid question but I could care less at this point.)


Because its not a real deal that is being offered?


Remember when the Rockets were going to take all of Orlando's bad contracts and I was arguing on here how it would never happen and it was "Its being reported! It's not made up!"

What happened?

It turned out the Rockets were in no way going to take all those shit contracts just for 1 year of Dwight. 
It was a made up rumor, just like this one is another made up rumor. 

"Hey Cavs, take Bynum and maybe something like a bad contract for a couple draft picks."
Yea, they're going to say no to that...


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



XxIrvingxX said:


> We're talking about Cleveland here...what do you think??


I think its pretty clear that these websites make their living off a gullible people such as yourself.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



R-Star said:


> Because its not a real deal that is being offered?
> 
> 
> Remember when the Rockets were going to take all of Orlando's bad contracts and I was arguing on here how it would never happen and it was "Its being reported! It's not made up!"
> 
> What happened?
> 
> It turned out the Rockets were in no way going to take all those shit contracts just for 1 year of Dwight.
> It was a made up rumor, just like this one is another made up rumor.
> 
> "Hey Cavs, take Bynum and maybe something like a bad contract for a couple draft picks."
> Yea, they're going to say no to that...


Okay...dude, cut the crap already. You know as well as I do that these deals being discussed at one point is just as big of a possibility as them being made up rumors like you claim they are. I'm not saying that they aren't like it's a fact, for all we know they could be made up rumors. But just because a team says no to a trade offer from another team, or a team backs out in the middle of a supposed trade, doesn't make it a made up rumor. Saying a team was close to doing it and it was about to happen, when in reality it wasn't even close to being done, but was just being discussed? THAT would be a rumor. 

I want some legit evidence that there was never any actual talk going on between the teams before I can agree that something like this was a made up rumor. Until you provide me with such details, my guess is just as good as yours.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Okay...dude, cut the crap already. You know as well as I do that these deals being discussed at one point is just as big of a possibility as them being made up rumors like you claim they are. I'm not saying that they aren't like it's a fact, for all we know they could be made up rumors. But just because a team says no to a trade offer from another team, or a team backs out in the middle of a supposed trade, doesn't make it a made up rumor. Saying a team was close to doing it and it was about to happen, when in reality it wasn't even close to being done, but was just being discussed? THAT would be a rumor.
> 
> I want some legit evidence that there was never any actual talk going on between the teams before I can agree that something like this was a made up rumor. Until you provide me with such details, my guess is just as good as yours.





Ron said:


> Mitch Kupchak was on The Herd on Friday morning and basically said (without actually saying it) that 90% of these rumors are pure bullshit.


Well, he's only Mitch Kupchak so who knows. Not really as legit as "sources say".


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



R-Star said:


> I think its pretty clear that these *websites* make their living off a gullible people such as yourself.


Most of the stories I find out about involving possible trades and free agent signings are from newspapers...


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Did any of the national media guys even picked it up? Just someone saying Orlando media reporting. No constant talk about that, or updates from anyone. It lasted like 2 hrs before it was put to sleep. 


Also, there's no evidence Cleveland backed out of anything yesterday. Wasting your time getting upset over nothing.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Most of the stories I find out about involving possible trades and free agent signings are from newspapers...


Shut up.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Dissonance said:


> Did any of the national media guys even picked it up? Just someone saying Orlando media reporting. No constant talk about that, or updates from anyone. It lasted like 2 hrs before it was put to sleep.
> 
> 
> Also, there's no evidence Cleveland backed out of anything yesterday. Wasting your time getting upset over nothing.


At least a few people understand that.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Dissonance said:


> *Did any of the national media guys even picked it up? Just someone saying Orlando media reporting. No constant talk about that, or updates from anyone. It lasted like 2 hrs before it was put to sleep. *
> 
> 
> Also, there's no evidence Cleveland backed out of anything yesterday. Wasting your time getting upset over nothing.


I would watch Sportscenter so I could give you a accurate answer to that but all they talk about now a days is Penn state and Drew Brees...

And who said I was upset? I don't really care too much either. I think the idea of Bynum being on the Cavs would be freakin awesome, but my hopes weren't that high considering how since it involved Howard, it probably wasn't going to happen. So I sort of saw this coming.



R-Star said:


> Shut up.


No.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Come on suns, use all these pieces you just acquired and go get the ho.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Ron said:


> Nice change EHM.
> 
> Very appropriate.


Kids these days have no appreciation for just how awesome the original Muppet Show was.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

I guess people gave up discussion this lol


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

The saturation point had to be reached eventually.


----------



## Ron

*LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

*Bynum-to-Cleveland rumors heating up again*



> But the Lakers are confident they can convince Howard to stay with the franchise long-term, particularly once he gets a taste of star-driven Los Angeles, sources said.
> 
> As for Bynum, word is he’s a fan of both Cavs coach Byron Scott, a guard with the Lakers during the Magic Johnson-led Showtime era, and Cavs point guard Kyrie Irving, the NBA’s reigning Rookie of the Year.
> 
> So much, in fact, that Bynum would be willing to sign an extension if traded to the Cavs, said one source.
> 
> Also, several sources indicated Bynum may be tired of playing the role of third wheel behind Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol with the Lakers – and perhaps may now even be the fourth option following the Lakers’ acquisition of Steve Nash (from the Suns).
> 
> Bynum, 24, has won two championships with the Lakers and seemingly prefers to play somewhere “where he’s one of the top two reasons a team wins or loses a ring,” said one source close to him.


I refer you back to "revision 5" above. 

Thread title change no. 41...but is it really a change, Jamel? Because its a repeat of one a few days ago...ah, the Archivist must make a distinction.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*

Most pointless archiving ever.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Dissonance said:


> Most pointless archiving ever.


I agree, but its what he lives for.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Honestly, I'm actually excited at the idea of Bynum possibly going to the Cavs just because he now will probably stay with them if this does happen, but just like the last time, I'm not going to get my hopes up just yet. I am glad however that for the first time in god knows how long, an all star is actually expressing interesting and is favoring Cleveland, something that rarely happens now a days.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

I think the main hold up w/ this version of the trade is who is going to take on the contracts that Orlando is going to attempt to dump.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Honestly, I'm actually excited at the idea of Bynum possibly going to the Cavs just because he now will probably stay with them if this does happen, but just like the last time, I'm not going to get my hopes up just yet. I am glad however that for the first time in god knows how long, an all star is actually expressing interesting and is favoring Cleveland, something that rarely happens now a days.


The Lakers have alienated Bynum so much that he actually WANTS to go play for the Cavs.

Amazing in its own right. :sigh:


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> The Lakers have alienated Bynum so much that he actually WANTS to go play for the Cavs.
> 
> Amazing in its own right. :sigh:


Bynum never came out saying the right things though. I would feel pretty uncomfortable with him if I was the owner.


----------



## ATLien

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



R-Star said:


> Bynum never came out saying the right things though. I would feel pretty uncomfortable with him if I was the owner.


I don't like his make-up either, but if I'm Cleveland I risk it. They could have two superstars in Kyrie and Bynum, best case scenario.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



ATLien said:


> I don't like his make-up either, but if I'm Cleveland I risk it. They could have two superstars in Kyrie and Bynum, best case scenario.


If all Cleveland is doing is giving up a couple 1sts and taking on a bad contract or two, its definitely worth it to get the 2nd best center in the league.

They'd have a very impressive young core going forward.


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Bynum can't be a superstar but he can be the best big in the East by virtue of sending Dwight west.

I wonder if Dwight didn't have that injury would there be more Rockets out there willing to pillage their roster for him


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Dre said:


> Bynum can't be a superstar but he can be the best big in the East by virtue of sending Dwight west.


Big Roy will give him a run for his money.

But yea.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Alice Cooper says, "Welcome to my Dwightmare"*



Dissonance said:


> Most pointless archiving ever.


Well it is now that you guys trashed my poll


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



R-Star said:


> Bynum never came out saying the right things though. I would feel pretty uncomfortable with him if I was the owner.


We have Luke Walton on our team, at this point we find it incredibly hard to care.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



XxIrvingxX said:


> We have Luke Walton on our team, at this point we find it incredibly hard to care.


I uhhhh.... yep. 



Yep.


----------



## Luke

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Please happen.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

All these reports are so ****ing stupid. Bynum is tired to playing 3rd fiddle behind Kobe and Pau? Umm...he clearly eclipsed Pau last year, so there's no way that report is accurate.

He wants to be one of the top two reasons a team wins/loses a ring? Pretty sure he was one of the top two reasons we lost this year.

I'm over it. Wake me up when Mr. Indecision finally gets dealt somewhere. If this donkey had just not picked up his option, he'd be in Brooklyn right now and we wouldn't be dealing with all this crap.


----------



## Diable

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

If Howard hadn't picked up his option Bynum might be in Orlando and Howard might be in Brooklyn.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Damian Necronamous said:


> All these reports are so ****ing stupid. Bynum is tired to playing 3rd fiddle behind Kobe and Pau? Umm...he clearly eclipsed Pau last year, so there's no way that report is accurate.
> 
> He wants to be one of the top two reasons a team wins/loses a ring? Pretty sure he was one of the top two reasons we lost this year.
> 
> I'm over it. Wake me up when Mr. Indecision finally gets dealt somewhere. If this donkey had just not picked up his option, he'd be in Brooklyn right now and we wouldn't be dealing with all this crap.


After all is said and done, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the moron extends with Orlando. :|


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

If you get Dwight though he might not play this year...so that kind of hurts your chances this season


----------



## Luke

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Is his injury that serious? I thought he was good to go by like November or December?


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

I've heard either way. I'm guessing maybe it has to do with what team he's on come Nov 1st


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Per Twitter:



> Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> Lakers will not take Jason Richardson. He supposedly has personal issue with Steve Nash. @withmalice @enc0ur


:laugh: Orlando...really hamstrung themselves with these ridiculous contracts.


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

That's BS. They can trade for him and waive his ass...come on now


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Dre said:


> That's BS. They can trade for him and waive his ass...come on now


Exactly. Everyones trying to get in on this and sound like they have some sort of sage inside knowledge. 


Jason Richardson is going to hold a trade of this caliber up? Like ****.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

And if that was the case, here's a crazy idea, send JRich to the Cavs. 

Pure bullshit story making.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

just as a general rule of thumb any of these rumors that attempt to characterize 'the lakers thinking' or 'the lakers feeling that such and such' etc are defacto bullshit - there are 3 guys who know what the Lakers are thinking and feeling and two of them are named Buss - leaking is not in the lakers FO genetic make-up


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

I always love the "source with knowledge of so and sos way of thinking" reports

Is that their psychiatrist or what


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



e-monk said:


> just as a general rule of thumb any of these rumors that attempt to characterize 'the lakers thinking' or 'the lakers feeling that such and such' etc are defacto bullshit - there are 3 guys who know what the Lakers are thinking and feeling and two of them are named Buss - leaking is not in the lakers FO genetic make-up


Bullshit man. You don't think Buss is calling Steven A Smith and telling them all their secrets so that he can feel cool?

_"Hey, Steven A, its the Buss man. We're close to getting Dwight. Orlando is trying to push us having to take Hedo in the deal. We said no, but if they push we'll do it just to get this all done...... don't tell anyone ok? We still on for lunch next week? Steven? Steven?"_


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Dre said:


> I've heard either way. I'm guessing maybe it has to do with what team he's on come Nov 1st


I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't started playing basketball yet. Back injuries are no joke. A minor tweak can set you back weeks.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



MojoPin said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't started playing basketball yet. Back injuries are no joke. A minor tweak can set you back weeks.


And a bad attitude months.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Dre said:


> That's BS. They can trade for him and waive his ass...come on now


It's relevant.

You really think the Lakers want to take on additional salary and NOT get something out of him. You are out of your mind.

And its obvious to anyone paying attention that is a sticking point.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> It's relevant.
> 
> You really think the Lakers want to take on additional salary and NOT get something out of him. You are out of your mind.
> 
> And its obvious to anyone paying attention that is a sticking point.


Nope. Flip him to Cleveland then. 

Its BS.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

_"Hey Steve. We're thinking about getting Dwight here, just wanted to get your take on things."_
*"Better not include JRich in the deal or that's it! I quit!"*

Yep. Sure that happened.

Or maybe it was this.

_"Hey Jason. We're going to trade you. You have no say in the matter, and aren't good enough anymore for anyone to care if you open your mouth anyways."_
*"Better not be to the Lakers! I hate Steve Nash!"*
_"Yea..... I don't think you got the no say in the matter part."_

Yea. Maybe it was #2.


----------



## Cris

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



> RT @JRudolphSports Sources: Dwight Howard is ready to join LAL. If traded to LA, Howard will re-sign long-term.
> https://twitter.com/JRudolphSports/status/225829999222071296


He's a RealGM guy, take it for what its worth.


----------



## Cris

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

....continued



> ‏@RealGM: Dwight Howard has moved on from Big Apple infatuation and is locked in on joining Lakers, sources tell RealGM --
> https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/225833807260028929


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Sources tell real GM. The same RealGM you see me making fun of previously in this thread when they "broke" that Dwight was being traded in the next couple of days.

Yep. I'll be taking that with a gigantic grain of salt.

Dwight just decided that now? At midnight? And then called and let everyone know?


Nope.


----------



## Cris

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



> This from @LakersNation:
> According to @JRudolphSports, Dwight Howard is ready to join the Lakers long term. Jarrod is a pretty credible with Dwight/Orlando news.


Not sure how credible, but if LakersNation thinks so I'll give it a little weight.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

At some point in time he has to/had to realize he has to go somewhere since Brooklyn isn't happening.


----------



## Cris

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



> @EricPincus: I know @JRudolphSports personally and I know he's a solid guy w/ a close connection to Dwight Howard so while it's always difficult to make a deal, according to Jarrod, Howard is ready to commit long-term to the Lakers. I wrote some time ago LA was worried about his back but they've since done their due diligence & are confident in it. That's why we next ran my LAL/HOU/ORL article & the LAL/CLE/ORL article from @AlexKennedyNBA. Curious where we go from here and if doors can be walked through
> -Eric Pincus


...


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Cris said:


> ...


"That's why we next ran my LAL/HOU/ORL article & the LAL/CLE/ORL article from @AlexKennedyNBA."

Isn't that just coming right out and say he's been posting pure speculation?


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



> Chris Broussard
> 
> Sources confirm @JRudolphSports report that Dwight Howard is ready to join Lakers. If traded to LA DH will re-sign long-term with team


‏@Chris_Broussard


----------



## Cris

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Well here's this from Mr. Sources himself:



> @Chris_Broussard: Sources confirm @JRudolphSports report that Dwight Howard is ready to join Lakers. If traded to LA DH will re-sign long-term with team


----------



## Cris

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Damn you Dissonance


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

I just have to use this opportunity to use this picture


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

He's just quoting the same guy. And then it turns into a runaway freight train.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Now Broussard is confirming... FWIW.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



R-Star said:


> Sources tell real GM. The same RealGM you see me making fun of previously in this thread when they "broke" that Dwight was being traded in the next couple of days.
> 
> Yep. I'll be taking that with a gigantic grain of salt.
> 
> Dwight just decided that now? At midnight? And then called and let everyone know?
> 
> 
> Nope.


Well, for what its worth, the moron made a decision to opt into his Magic contract at a little past 3 a.m. EST a few months ago.

In completely unrelated news, a major hockey signing went down a short time ago. How come all this shit happens in the wee hours of the morning?


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



R-Star said:


> He's just quoting the same guy. And then it turns into a runaway freight train.


Agreed. We don't know if there is more than one source. It can be a links in the same chain.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> Well, for what its worth, the moron made a decision to opt into his Magic contract at a little past 3 a.m. EST a few months ago.
> 
> In completely unrelated news, a major hockey signing went down a short time ago. How come all this shit happens in the wee hours of the morning?


Did see that. Shea Webber to a 100 mil contract?

Hockey contracts are slowly getting out of hand. I guess I'll take it as a positive that the sport is in healthy shape.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Per Twitter:



> Sam Amico
> In Orlando, Lakers source said, Dwight Howard is big deal when just walking down the street. In LA, he might be eating in restaurant with Jack Nicholson in one corner and George Clooney in another. "He could be in movies here," the source said, adding that Howard would also be playing for a team with a huge and passionate fan base. Lakers also topped Forbes magazine's list as NBA's most valuable franchise.





> Sam Amico
> Spoke with Lakers source Wednesday who said team had little doubt Dwight Howard could be convinced to stay with team long-term if traded to LA. Doubt the source figured it would be so soon. But according to @JRudolphSports, Howard now willing to remain with Lakers for long haul, and would sign contract extension, if dealt.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



R-Star said:


> Did see that. Shea Webber to a 100 mil contract?
> 
> Hockey contracts are slowly getting out of hand. I guess I'll take it as a positive that the sport is in healthy shape.


They might as well get them done now, if the NHL really wants to limit max deals to 5 years (yeah right, that is going to happen). But I can see teams like the Wild and Flyers doing this to try to beat the new CBA's requirements.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> Per Twitter:


He could be in movies and eat with Nicholson and Clooney? The Lakers are worth a lot of money?


This shit passes as reasons Dwight might want to go to LA?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> They might as well get them done now, if the NHL really wants to limit max deals to 5 years (yeah right, that is going to happen). But I can see teams like the Wild and Flyers doing this to try to beat the new CBA's requirements.


Yep.


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



R-Star said:


> Did see that. Shea Webber to a 100 mil contract?
> 
> Hockey contracts are slowly getting out of hand. I guess I'll take it as a positive that the sport is in healthy shape.


Wow, just wow. The length of the contracts is what really amazes me. You don't see anything like that anywhere else in sports, do you? That's the remarkable thing about hockey - with the way your body moves on ice, it really does grind players down less than any other sport, despite all of the heavy hitting (unless you're a head down skater or a brawler, in which case you're ****ed).


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



ChrisWoj said:


> Wow, just wow. The length of the contracts is what really amazes me. You don't see anything like that anywhere else in sports, do you? That's the remarkable thing about hockey - with the way your body moves on ice, it really does grind players down less than any other sport, despite all of the heavy hitting (unless you're a head down skater or a brawler, in which case you're ****ed).


I don't know. The retirement age is probably similar to basketball. There's a couple of weirdo's who stick around until they're 40, but not much different from guys like J Kidd.

I doubt Webber will play for another 14 years. In all reality the contract should be seen as a CBA loophole and thrown out.


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Dwight was asking his little bitch to live with him in LA as late as last offseason, so it's not like he's never thought about being there

But as far as movies average black actors barely get roles much less some 7 foot muscle bound fool. I'd be surprised if he ever rose past stunt cast level


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Dre said:


> Dwight was asking his little bitch to live with him in LA as late as last offseason, so it's not like he's never thought about being there
> 
> But as far as movies average black actors barely get roles much less some 7 foot muscle bound fool. I'd be surprised if he ever rose past stunt cast level


Shaq made it. Although people can say whatever they want about Diesel, but dude was charismatic. Couldn't act to save his life, but charismatic as ****.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Dre said:


> Dwight was asking his little bitch to live with him in LA as late as last offseason, so it's not like he's never thought about being there
> 
> But as far as movies average black actors barely get roles much less some 7 foot muscle bound fool. I'd be surprised if he ever rose past stunt cast level


Shaq swag...Grown Ups 2!


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

So does this now turn into a race between Cleveland and Houston for Bynum? Why aren't we getting any specifics about what those teams are offering?


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



RollWithEm said:


> So does this now turn into a race between Cleveland and Houston for Bynum? Why aren't we getting any specifics about what those teams are offering?




Because it is all made up BS....


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

*Dwight Howard OK to re-up for Lakers*

According to this story, Orlando is holding up the deal.

Lakers may walk away, just like Brooklyn did.

I still think after all this bullshit he remains with Orlando. A very unhappy big in Orlando. Wonder if he would play as hard as Bynum does night in and night out?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> *Dwight Howard OK to re-up for Lakers*
> 
> According to this story, Orlando is holding up the deal.
> 
> Lakers may walk away, just like Brooklyn did.
> 
> I still think after all this bullshit he remains with Orlando. A very unhappy big in Orlando. Wonder if he would play as hard as Bynum does night in and night out?


He will shoot three pointers on the break and he will intentionally foul a small PG when they're getting their asses kicked.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Mitch shouldnt give Orlando shit - Bynum for Dwight straight up and that's it, take it or leave it - you want something else you find that 3rd team - we're moving on


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



RollWithEm said:


> So does this now turn into a race between Cleveland and Houston for Bynum? Why aren't we getting any specifics about what those teams are offering?


But Houston still thinks it can trade for Dwight straight up, either way Orlando is getting picks, youth, and cap space, doesn't matter to them where Dwight lands.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



kbdullah said:


> But Houston still thinks it can trade for Dwight straight up, either way Orlando is getting picks, youth, and cap space, doesn't matter to them where Dwight lands.


But now it appears that the LA/Cavs/Magic deal is the more likely scenario since Howard now apparently says he would commit to LA if he got traded there. 

Each time, the team the Magic tried to trade to ended backing out of the deal. I don't see that happening here. Howard says he'll commit to LA, and Bynum apparently will commit to Cleveland, so for both teams, this is too good of an opportunity to pass up, especially for Cleveland since they've found an all star who actually wants to play there, something they unfortunately couldn't find during the Lebron James era. 

What ever Orlando wants, they should do it. If Richardson has to play with Nash, okay fine, big deal, w/e. I would go for it, and have Kobe tell those bastards to get along or something, do w/e it takes. As for Cleveland, I see no reason for them to back out of this deal.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



XxIrvingxX said:


> But now it appears that the LA/Cavs/Magic deal is the more likely scenario since Howard now apparently says he would commit to LA if he got traded there.
> 
> Each time, the team the Magic tried to trade to ended backing out of the deal. I don't see that happening here. Howard says he'll commit to LA, and Bynum apparently will commit to Cleveland, so for both teams, this is too good of an opportunity to pass up, especially for Cleveland since they've found an all star who actually wants to play there, something they unfortunately couldn't find during the Lebron James era.
> 
> What ever Orlando wants, they should do it. If Richardson has to play with Nash, okay fine, big deal, w/e. I would go for it, and have Kobe tell those bastards to get along or something, do w/e it takes. *As for Cleveland, I see no reason for them to back out of this deal.*


Yeah, but you are talking about Dan Gilbert here. That guy is such a ****-head he would back out simply out of spite.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

I can't open sports-related sites at work, except for this site, somehow. What's Cleveland looking at giving up for Bynum?


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Bogg said:


> I can't open sports-related sites at work, except for this site, somehow. What's Cleveland looking at giving up for Bynum?


It's the same deal as reported before...Cleveland sends picks to Orlando. How many and how high have not been reported.

Oh, and possibly Anderson Varejao.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Per Twitter:



> Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> Cavs, Lakers, Magic have framework of deal in place, source says. Dwight Howard to Lakers, Andrew Bynum to Cavs is "closer."


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Framework is in place? Jamel, how many times in this thread has framework been in place?


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Per Twitter:



> Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> Before we all get too excited, I've been told by Lakers official previous tweet not accurate. "No deal is imminent."


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Per Twitter:



> Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> Sounds like Magic may be throwing some stuff out there for leverage in deal.


Time for the Lakers for cut and run...attempt to sign Bynum to an extension (he won't if he is smart; he can hold out for a five-year, $100 million deal if he goes to free agency next summer), and bail out of the Howard talks. It is clear to me at this point the Magic are asking for far too much here.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> It's the same deal as reported before...Cleveland sends picks to Orlando. How many and how high have not been reported.
> 
> Oh, and possibly Anderson Varejao.


I have a hard time believing that Orlando's willing to trade Howard for two or three firsts, especially considering that Cleveland's a playoff team if they're throwing out Irving, Waiters, Casspi, Thompson, and Bynum with Gibson and Zeller coming off the bench. If Howard's available for three picks in the late teens then half the league would be willing to trade for him with no guarantee.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> Yeah, but you are talking about Dan Gilbert here. That guy is such a ****-head he would back out simply out of spite.


No, he's just a idiot. Simple as that. But the thing is, he has a opportunity here. He actually has a well known player favoring his team. The last time a well known player did that, Dan jumped all over the opportunity. And that guys name was Shaq. No way Gilbert turns down this opportunity. It's a 24 year old center with a lot to learn and yet he's already one of the best centers in the league.

So what if Kobe ends up having Howard on his team, so what if the Lakers are suddenly the Miami Heat of the west, there's a big difference here though that makes suddenly makes this reasonable, and it's that Kobe is aging, Gasol is aging, and Nash has about one or two years left in him. Wade and Bosh are both currently in their prime and Lebron's almost at that point. So even if the Lakers get Howard, they aren't going to have a dynasty like the Heat are unless they manage to get yet another big talent who isn't aging which...could probably happen because it's LA but I digress. 

Irving is a incredible player at such a young age, and Bynum is the second best center in the NBA. Gilbert promised the cleveland fans a ring before Lebron would get one. Obviously that didn't happen, but the bottom line is, you still want to deliver one to your fans. This is the best chance he has right here. Right now the Cavs aren't in a good spot. They drafted at fourth what many consider to be a draft bust, and they don't have much talent surrounding their soon to be all star PG. Jaminson is gone and Varejao has reached his prime and isn't going to get much better. I love the guy to death and he's come a long way, but he can't help us that much anymore. Right now Tristian Thompson is the only one who has any shot of being a lot of help for Irving when he improves and that's a big stretch given his limited offense atm. He would need a HUGE improvement to make the big impact that we want from him.

With Bynum, this suddenly changes everything. It not only gives the Cavs a much better shot but it can actually attract other talent to come and join the Cavs if they want a shot at the title, we've seen it happen before. Whether or not Bynum would make them that good of a team is something we would have to wait and see. They need to find someone at PF to replace Jaminson, and they still need some depth off the bench. But Bynum will be a excellent way to start the rebuilding process.

If Gilbert turns away from this opportunity, he will go down as one of the dumbest owners ever in the history of the NBA, if not, the history of professional sports. You've got an all star center who wants to join your team. Forget about the circumstances surrounding it, and let him come.

Edit: Okay now it suddenly looks like the Magic are the ones who might be trying to back out. Cmon Orlando, just please do it!!


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Orlando needs to stop pussyfooting around and pull the trigger. Yes they can wait if they want, but they do not want this hanging over the head of the franchise going into training camp.


----------



## PauloCatarino

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



XxIrvingxX said:


> No, he's just a idiot. Simple as that. But the thing is, he has a opportunity here. He actually has a well known player favoring his team. The last time a well known player did that, Dan jumped all over the opportunity. And that guys name was Shaq. No way Gilbert turns down this opportunity. It's a 24 year old center with a lot to learn and yet he's already one of the best centers in the league.
> 
> So what if Kobe ends up having Howard on his team, so what if the Lakers are suddenly the Miami Heat of the west, there's a big difference here though that makes suddenly makes this reasonable, and it's that Kobe is aging, Gasol is aging, and Nash has about one or two years left in him. Wade and Bosh are both currently in their prime and Lebron's almost at that point. So even if the Lakers get Howard, they aren't going to have a dynasty like the Heat are unless they manage to get yet another big talent who isn't aging which...could probably happen because it's LA but I digress.
> 
> Irving is a incredible player at such a young age, and Bynum is the second best center in the NBA. Gilbert promised the cleveland fans a ring before Lebron would get one. Obviously that didn't happen, but the bottom line is, you still want to deliver one to your fans. This is the best chance he has right here. Right now the Cavs aren't in a good spot. They drafted at fourth what many consider to be a draft bust, and they don't have much talent surrounding their soon to be all star PG. Jaminson is gone and Varejao has reached his prime and isn't going to get much better. I love the guy to death and he's come a long way, but he can't help us that much anymore. Right now Tristian Thompson is the only one who has any shot of being a lot of help for Irving when he improves and that's a big stretch given his limited offense atm. He would need a HUGE improvement to make the big impact that we want from him.
> 
> With Bynum, this suddenly changes everything. It not only gives the Cavs a much better shot but it can actually attract other talent to come and join the Cavs if they want a shot at the title, we've seen it happen before. Whether or not Bynum would make them that good of a team is something we would have to wait and see. They need to find someone at PF to replace Jaminson, and they still need some depth off the bench. But Bynum will be a excellent way to start the rebuilding process.
> 
> If Gilbert turns away from this opportunity, he will go down as one of the dumbest owners ever in the history of the NBA, if not, the history of professional sports. You've got an all star center who wants to join your team. Forget about the circumstances surrounding it, and let him come.
> 
> Edit: Okay now it suddenly looks like the Magic are the ones who might be trying to back out. Cmon Orlando, just please do it!!


Good post. As a Laker and Cavs fan i'm extatic for this scenario (yeah, scenario, not "deal done"): Dwight for Bynum makes the Lakers instant championship contenders (not favourites, though) for a couple of years (till Kobe breaks down). And i agree Gilbert would jump to the opportunity to get a young, legit center (who is the second-best center around) to pair with Irving and start a foundation for a team who could very well be a playoff contender next season already.

Hope it's not BS.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Orlando needs to stop pussyfooting around and pull the trigger. Yes they can wait if they want, but they do not want this hanging over the head of the franchise going into training camp.


Depends on what's being offered. They can't just take whatever's thrown at them, because this is their one chance to kick-start the inevitable rebuild.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



PauloCatarino said:


> Good post. As a Laker and Cavs fan i'm extatic for this scenario (yeah, scenario, not "deal done"): Dwight for Bynum makes the Lakers instant championship contenders (not favourites, though) for a couple of years (till Kobe breaks down). And i agree Gilbert would jump to the opportunity to get a young, legit center (who is the second-best center around) to pair with Irving and start a foundation for a team who could very well be a playoff contender next season already.
> 
> Hope it's not BS.


If the Lakers have Howard, Kobe, Nash AND Gasol, they'll win multiple rings. That's too much firepower for any team to overcome.


----------



## British_Baller

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

That Lakers team vs Heat. Just wow, that would be one special series!


----------



## Sleepepro

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

The rest of the NBA outside of OKC would just be sitting in the sidelines waiting for these players to get old. The new CBA didn't fix a thing.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Sleepepro said:


> The rest of the NBA outside of OKC would just be sitting in the sidelines waiting for these players to get old. The new CBA didn't fix a thing.


Fortunately for the rest of the NBA then the Lakers _are_ old.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Sleepepro said:


> The rest of the NBA outside of OKC would just be sitting in the sidelines waiting for these players to get old. The new CBA didn't fix a thing.


The new CBA goes into effect in a year or so.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



> @AlexKennedyNBA: Dwight Howard hasn't personally informed the Los Angeles Lakers that he would re-sign next summer, but he's expected to do so very soon.


...


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Per Twitter:



> Sam Amico Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> Source says lots of talk tough and "less than truths" going on, but Lakers believe Howard will eventually end up in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> Source added: "It's up to the Magic whether or not they want to lose (Howard) for nothing. They're driving down their price."


However, there is this: No reference, but on the way back home I listened to KSPN here in Los Angeles and David Lee, Bynum's agent, said that "Bynum never said he would extend in Cleveland. Those reports are just wrong."

Bynum wants to test the free agent market. He wants the experience of being courted. Even though he knows he will forego $26 million or so by signing with another team that doesn't have his Bird rights, he still wants to go through that experience.


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Man, Orlando has really ****ed this up if they passed up on a better offer to receive these picks


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> Per Twitter:
> 
> 
> *
> However, there is this: No reference, but on the way back home I listened to KSPN here in Los Angeles and David Lee, Bynum's agent, said that "Bynum never said he would extend in Cleveland. Those reports are just wrong."
> *
> Bynum wants to test the free agent market. He wants the experience of being courted. Even though he knows he will forego $26 million or so by signing with another team that doesn't have his Bird rights, he still wants to go through that experience.


R-Star, where are you buddy? I need you. You were right. I was wrong.

Now excuse me while I go complain about how the media trolled the city of Cleveland.


----------



## Floods

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Remind me again why Orlando refuses to trade for Bynum?


----------



## Diable

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Bynum claims he won't take their money and he's a huge jerk.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Floods said:


> Remind me again why Orlando refuses to trade for Bynum?


Because he keeps you too good to bottom out but not good enough to do anything meaningful, all while being on structurally questionable knees. Also, you need to immediately give him a full-max extension or you're in exactly the same boat with a lesser player, because he's hitting free agency next summer as well.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



> The Cleveland Cavaliers are eager partners in the three-way blockbuster trade talks to send Dwight Howard to the Los Angeles Lakers, but won’t proceed until the Lakers grant the them permission to talk to All-Star Andrew Bynum and his agent about the center’s willingness to sign a contract extension, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> "Cleveland will only do the deal if Bynum extends," a league official directly involved in the talks told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> Los Angeles wants the structure of a three-team deal agreed in principle before letting Cleveland take that next step to communicate with Bynum and his representatives – and that won’t happen until Orlando makes a decision that it wants to also lock-in the framework of a trade, sources told Y!
> 
> So far, Orlando has shown a level of indecisiveness in the talks, sources involved in the negotiations said.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--c...-bynum-in-potential-dwight-howard-trade-.html


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

*Cavs want assurances from Andrew Bynum in potential Dwight Howard trade*



> The Cleveland Cavaliers are eager partners in the three-way blockbuster trade talks to send Dwight Howard to the Los Angeles Lakers, *but won’t proceed until the Lakers grant the them permission to talk to All-Star Andrew Bynum* and his agent about the center’s willingness to sign a contract extension, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> *"Cleveland will only do the deal if Bynum extends,"* a league official directly involved in the talks told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> *Los Angeles wants the structure of a three-team deal agreed in principle before letting Cleveland take that next step to communicate with Bynum* and his representatives – *and that won’t happen until Orlando makes a decision that it wants to also lock-in the framework of a trade*, sources told Y!
> 
> So far, Orlando has shown a level of indecisiveness in the talks, sources involved in the negotiations said.


STALEMATE!

Lakers, I think its really time to walk away from this completely.

Let's move on...please.


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Sigh

Bunch of grown ass men playing footsie

Ol "I like him and she likes _him_ but I'm not gonna tell him how I feel until he tells me" ass fools

Kupchak on his bed with his feet up twiddling the phone cord :2ti:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

SMH


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Okay so let me get this straight. The Cavs will not agree on the deal until they talk to Bynum first, but the Lakers won't let the Cavs do so until the Magic agree with the proposed trade first, but the Magic are currently holding up the trade because they aren't sure if what they'll get in return is worth it?!

Good god. They should've just went with what the Nets offered them in the first place. I'm still shocked that this potential deal has been talked about for this long considering how little the Magic would get in return for Howard.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

anything that purports to be about the lakers will or wont do is bullshit - three guys: buss, buss, mitch, they know that and they dont talk - the rest is pure ass water


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Would be funny if they didn't need Nash more than Dwight on their current roster :gay:


----------



## 29380

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Steve Nash = Batman


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

If you say Batman and Mamba really fast over and over it has the same ring :kanyeshrug:


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Dre said:


> Would be funny if they didn't need Nash more than Dwight on their current roster :gay:


I don't think that was the point, but idk, I found the nash and kobe part funny.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

THIS IS THE ONLY REAL BATMAN!!


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Here's a link to an audio report recapping the latest rumors...most of this is generated from Fox Sports Ohio.

http://msn.foxsports.com/video/NBA?vid=e695f437-c9a0-4e98-85ed-ef776bcffa39


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

His agent said he won't sign an extension with any team. Will test free agency no matter what.

Time to call off talks and extend Bynum.


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

He needs to just sit out this season and blame his back then. He can't afford to put Orlando or any other team through that again


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

I know Laker fans will not believe it could happen to them but I would be more worried about Bynum leaving them high and dry than Howard.


----------



## Dre

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Interesting point


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

OK, just find AAAANY 3rd team who will take Bynum...doesn't have to be Cleveland. That basically leaves 28 other possibilities.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



MemphisX said:


> I know Laker fans will not believe it could happen to them but I would be more worried about Bynum leaving them high and dry than Howard.


extra year, max salary


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

WOW. I just laughed out loud. Now he's saying he won't sign an extension with ANYONE he is traded to! He is really killing his trade value right now. I mean, I know it was already far from what it could have been - but he just has no interest in helping Orlando out AT ALL. They aren't going to get nearly the haul they thought they once would. This story is amazing. It keeps me laughing daily.


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

If Orlando somehow doesn't deal him before the start of training camp I expect him to report in Shawn Kemp-post `99 lockout shape.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



ChrisWoj said:


> WOW. I just laughed out loud. Now he's saying *he won't sign an extension with ANYONE he is traded to*! He is really killing his trade value right now. I mean, I know it was already far from what it could have been - but he just has no interest in helping Orlando out AT ALL. They aren't going to get nearly the haul they thought they once would. This story is amazing. It keeps me laughing daily.


does everyone understand how much money is at stake when it comes to a max player making a decision between signing a 4 year extension and going to free agency where you can the extra year (even/especially if you intend to stay with the team your with)?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

This guy is a trip. This talk will go on all season if Orlando doesn't move him before training camp. Are they really gonna trot that same team out there, just without Ryan Anderson this season?


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



e-monk said:


> does everyone understand how much money is at stake when it comes to a max player making a decision between signing a 4 year extension and going to free agency where you can the extra year (even/especially if you intend to stay with the team your with)?


Teams want that assurance that he will be around for a few years. They can't rely on these players actually make a logical move.

Obviously, the owners and the league did not see this psychological possibility crop up when they introduced this poison pill in the new CBA. What you are now seeing are "stalemates" in trying to get deals done...e.g., Cleveland demanding an extension when it is not in the players' best interest to do so, as Bynum can make up to $26 more with an extra year just by NOT extending, going to free agency, and then signing the full five-year deal with the team that has his bird rights...which would be Cleveland.


----------



## 29380

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



MojoPin said:


> His agent said he won't sign an extension with any team. Will test free agency no matter what.


I'm not certain why this is so difficult for people to understand, I know why the Lakers want him to extend _now_, it saves them $20+ million. But there was never a chance that Howard was walking away from that much money, especially _after_ the back injury.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



E.H. Munro said:


> I'm not certain why this is so difficult for people to understand, I know why the Lakers want him to extend _now_, it saves them $20+ million. But there was never a chance that Howard was walking away from that much money, especially _after_ the back injury.


I think most posters are beginning to understand the CBA more and realize that ALL the players should be going free agency, simply because there is more money out there to do that instead of extending for only three years, etc.

What amazes me is that the GMs of teams are not getting it. Unless you can extend for five years and more money, NO player should be extending (unless they are so injury prone it might be in there best interest to do so).


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Per Twitter:



> Sam Amico
> 
> Sides still "far apart" in potential Lakers-Cavs-Magic trade, but not deterred by recent comments from agents, says source close to talks. "Agents have best interests of their clients, not teams, in mind," source said. "But I figured everyone already knew that."


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

So they're not even close but unlike the last few trade rumors, they aren't giving up on this yet. 

Honestly I don't care at this point anymore. As soon as I heard that Bynum wasn't going to sign an extension, I pretty much lost hope. I would still love for Bynum to be on the team, but honestly I think we're better off waiting until the end of the season and trying to sign him as a free agent. The signing the extension if traded part may not be true, but that doesn't mean he might not still be favoring Cleveland.


----------



## Cris

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Why would anyone sign an extension and leave 30 million on the table?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

I don't post here much on days off, but I just thought I'd pop by to say, hey, R-Star told you so. Like 80 ****ing times. 

"Hey, this guy on twitter says...." no. Its all ****ing being made up. Like I told you.

"But Sam Amico says..." A)Sam who? Who the **** is that guy? He's the new insider? 


The fact there will be another 10+ posts in here today alone, at least 1 involving a "Sources now say Cleveland is out, but sources say another team......" is ridiculous.


----------



## PauloCatarino

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



ChrisWoj said:


> WOW. I just laughed out loud. Now he's saying he won't sign an extension with ANYONE he is traded to! He is really killing his trade value right now. I mean, I know it was already far from what it could have been - but he just has no interest in helping Orlando out AT ALL. They aren't going to get nearly the haul they thought they once would. This story is amazing. It keeps me laughing daily.


The Magic will be a treat to watch this season


----------



## jayk009

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

it's not actually 30 million theyre leaving on the table by not signing an extension..the figure is comparing a 6 year salary vs. a 5 year salary....That figure includes 1 less year of salary..once you add in that 1 year the difference is not as high as the exagerrated 30 mill number...


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



jayk009 said:


> it's not actually 30 million theyre leaving on the table by not signing an extension..the figure is comparing a 6 year salary vs. a 5 year salary....That figure includes 1 less year of salary..once you add in that 1 year the difference is not as high as the exagerrated 30 mill number...


It's five years vs. four years, and five years at the maximum allowable per Bird rights rather than four years at the lower rate. Even on a four year basis it's more money if they go to free agency. And when you're a big man coming off a serious back injury the extra year of guaranteed is a big deal.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Cris said:


> Why would anyone sign an extension and leave 30 million on the table?


Some people could care less about the money. 

Not saying that's a reason for him to do it since he's basing this all off of how much money he'll get.

Honestly though, you can't blame the Cavs for wanting him to extend, considering how they're giving up picks that could be valuable if they have another less then impressive season, and Varejao who has been a very valuable piece for the Cavs. They clearly don't want to give all that up for nothing.


----------



## jayk009

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



E.H. Munro said:


> It's five years vs. four years, and five years at the maximum allowable per Bird rights rather than four years at the lower rate. Even on a four year basis it's more money if they go to free agency. And when you're a big man coming off a serious back injury the extra year of guaranteed is a big deal.


Yeah so if its 5 years vs. 4 years its still 1 more year of salary which was the point im trying to make...if u add the additional year of salary that they should theoretically get(or what the player in his mind thinks he can get) then the number he is losing is not 30 million. I'm sure Dwight in his mind feels like he will have no problem making a max salary after 4 years even if it might not be realistic, so I mean to elite players...theyre not really thinking they're losing 30 million...but closer to 8-10 million. Which is a big amount but certainly not 30 million....

Especially to a guy like Bynum who probably feels like he can get another 5 year max after this one, it probably wont weight into his decision as much as some of u are making it out to be...


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Actually it is.

$26 million more over five years. I wouldn't sneeze at $26 mil, would you?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

I think the extra year at that kind of money means a lot to any of these guys.

They all know, especially Bynum, how quickly their careers can change at any moment due to injury. If the money is there, you take it because you only have so long, and your clock might be ticking a lot faster than you know.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

Okay, for those of you still confused why both Howard and Bynum refuse to sign any extensions with any team, and will wait it out for free agency, I have attached to this post a summary of key points of the CBA (can't find the whole document anywhere online; I found an old one for 1999-2000, and I also found a document entitled "CBA 101" but that is old [August 2010] and contains only proposals, and its not the final CBA...it includes contract terms that are "wrong").

I listened to KSPN this afternoon and there was a CBA expert on. He basically said that the *most* Howard can make by extending three years with any team that has his Bird rights (Orlando or any team he is traded to) is $65 million. However, by waiting until he becomes a free agent, he will get $117 million over five years. *So that's 2 more years and $52 million.*

Howard is not going to leave $52 million on the table.

Without going through all the complicated calculations, Bynum faces the same dilemma (at a slightly lower amount in terms of money). Does he sign an extension for three years and about $55 million, or does he go for the he go for the full five years and about $99 million? It really is a no-brainer.

So what is holding up the deal? Consensus reports now seem to point to Orlando, who is apparently just afraid of pulling the trigger.

That's about it.

Reference: http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1113/nba_proposal.pdf


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> Okay, for those of you still confused why both Howard and Bynum refuse to sign any extensions with any team, and will wait it out for free agency, I have attached to this post a summary of key points of the CBA (can't find the whole document anywhere online; I found an old one for 1999-2000, and I also found a document entitled "CBA 101" but that is old [August 2010] and contains only proposals, and its not the final CBA...it includes contract terms that are "wrong").
> 
> I listened to KSPN this afternoon and there was a CBA expert on. He basically said that the *most* Howard can make by extending three years with any team that has his Bird rights (Orlando or any team he is traded to) is $65 million. However, by waiting until he becomes a free agent, he will get $117 million over five years. *So that's 2 more years and $52 million.*
> 
> Howard is not going to leave $52 million on the table.
> 
> Without going through all the complicated calculations, Bynum faces the same dilemma (at a slightly lower amount in terms of money). Does he sign an extension for three years and about $55 million, or does he go for the he go for the full five years and about $99 million? It really is a no-brainer.
> 
> So what is holding up the deal? Consensus reports now seem to point to Orlando, who is apparently just afraid of pulling the trigger.
> 
> That's about it.
> 
> Reference: http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1113/nba_proposal.pdf


And what? None of the experts and insiders knew this until today?


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

It's just clarification as many were getting push-back and blaming the players for holding up the deal when in fact its not their fault.

Just a bit of education out there for those who don't know (or really understand) the new CBA.

Apparently, that also includes some owners as well...like the moron who owns the Cavs.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> It's just clarification as many were getting push-back and blaming the players for holding up the deal when in fact its not their fault.
> 
> Just a bit of education out there for those who don't know (or really understand) the new CBA.
> 
> Apparently, that also includes some owners as well...like the moron who owns the Cavs.


None of these trades were ever going to happen Ron. And I'm quite sure Dan Gilbert employs at least 1 person who understands the current CBA.


We keep making up stories where there isn't one. 


No deal fell though because Gilbert "doesn't understand the CBA". These _deals_ fell through because Dwight was never going to up with anyone. And no one is selling the farm for a guy who by all signs told everyone "enjoy your year, I'm walking afterwards."


Some sounded at least plausible, other than the Houston one. Now that one was a pile of garbage, and the easiest lie to spot of the bunch. 

"Here, take our garbage and give us draft picks. Dwight will be ready around Christmas time and try real hard to get you guys into the playoffs before he leaves."


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*

The fact that the magic would get, what would most likely turn out to be, shitty draft picks, and just Anderson Varejao, for giving up their star center, makes me say that I can't blame Orlando for being scared to pull the trigger on this deal. I would want more, or at least want to have one of my shitty contracts be taken away as well. 

But that's okay though. The fact that the draft choice we made was incredibly stupid before they even did it but went for it anyways made me realize how ****ed we are as a franchise...


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



> The Orlando Magic have told rival executives that they might not trade Dwight Howard after all, according to league sources.
> 
> An executive who has had discussions with the Magic regarding Howard said Orlando only will trade the star center in a deal that is great for the franchise. The executive said this has been Orlando's stance for the past "week or so."
> 
> Another executive who has talked with Orlando said he thinks the Magic may start the season with Howard and wait until the February trade deadline to move him.


*Magic may wait on Howard deal*


----------



## Luke

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Such a shit show.


----------



## TheAnswer

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

:favre: 

Never ending


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

I think it comes down simply to fear...they can't bring themselves to make the move.

There are no more players in the NBA that can be involved in trades...and if they wait until the trade deadline, they are introducing Brooklyn back into the picture, but Brooklyn will look the same as they do today. So I really have no idea why Orlando wouldn't do a deal now...it has to come down to the fear factor.


----------



## MemphisX

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Orlando maybe the worst organization in a league that has a team owned by Donald Sterling.


----------



## Dissonance

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*


----------



## Luke

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Just take Bynum, kiss his ass for a year, and pray that he doesn't want to leave however much money on the table and resigns. Why do they think waiting is going to get them a better offer?


----------



## Job

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Dwight suck!


----------



## Cris

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Who cares about this story anymore... The magic should be forced to lose everything next offseason and watch Dwight leave.


----------



## Bogg

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Ron said:


> I think it comes down simply to fear...they can't bring themselves to make the move.





MemphisX said:


> Orlando maybe the worst organization in a league that has a team owned by Donald Sterling.


They were looking at Andy V(who does nothing for a bad team) and some mediocre to crappy draft picks for Dwight. I'd be livid if a team that I supported settled for that just to get it over with. If you're looking at picking up three or four bench players for a franchise guy, you just sit on it and wait for a better deal to come along. They only get to do this once. The Magic were _never_ going to accept Varejao and two or three firsts.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

This thread pains me.


----------



## RollWithEm

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Kidd said:


> This thread pains me.


It's certainly a candidate for the least satisfying thread ever on these boards.


----------



## MemphisX

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Bogg said:


> They were looking at Andy V(who does nothing for a bad team) and some mediocre to crappy draft picks for Dwight. I'd be livid if a team that I supported settled for that just to get it over with. If you're looking at picking up three or four bench players for a franchise guy, you just sit on it and wait for a better deal to come along. They only get to do this once. The Magic were _never_ going to accept Varejao and two or three firsts.


Houston has offered them much more, they just have their thumb up their butt.


----------



## R-Star

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Ron said:


> *Magic may wait on Howard deal*


Waiting until the trade deadline.


What I've been calling for months.


----------



## R-Star

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



MemphisX said:


> Houston has offered them much more, they just have their thumb up their butt.


Really? What was the deal? Because Houston came out and said the whole "We'll take all your shit contracts" deal had 0 truth to it.


----------



## kbdullah

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

The problem with waiting forever is that Brooklyn might re-enter the picture, but Houston could drop out. The Rockets could be anywhere from bad to above average this season, so if there isn't any guarantee they will remain confident in their ability to retain Dwight if they are too far out of the playoff race. They want to get Dwight now so they have time to manuever still. A poor Houston/Lin performance to start the season could dissuade Bynum from extending and kill any three-way deal with the Lakers. Same w/ Cleveland. The longer the Magic wait, the longer they risk backing themselves into a corner of Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, and late firsts.


----------



## Bogg

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



kbdullah said:


> The problem with waiting forever is that Brooklyn might re-enter the picture, but Houston could drop out. The Rockets could be anywhere from bad to above average this season, so if there isn't any guarantee they will remain confident in their ability to retain Dwight if they are too far out of the playoff race. They want to get Dwight now so they have time to manuever still. A poor Houston/Lin performance to start the season could dissuade Bynum from extending and kill any three-way deal with the Lakers. Same w/ Cleveland. The longer the Magic wait, the longer they risk backing themselves into a corner of Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, and late firsts.


Again, if Orlando was passing on a package of Waiters, Zeller, Thompson, and two or three picks I'd at least understand this line of reasoning. However, the deals that have been rumored have basically been Andy V, who does nothing for Orlando, and two or three mid-to-low first round picks. That kind of deal is _always_ going to be available. Hell, you could get a contract and some average-to-bad firsts in a sign-and-trade for Dwight next summer.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

I wish that there would be a thread with only the news or a way to highlight the posts that are only about the news. I get that the title gets updated but it often doesn't give enough details.

I'm just tired to filtering through all the bickering in this thread. Opinions are entertaining but sometimes, it doesn't even have to do with the trade anymore. This thread is so polluted, I wish there would be a new one.


----------



## RollWithEm

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Dee-Zy said:


> I wish that there would be a thread with only the news or a way to highlight the posts that are only about the news. I get that the title gets updated but it often doesn't give enough details.
> 
> I'm just tired to filtering through all the bickering in this thread. Opinions are entertaining but sometimes, it doesn't even have to do with the trade anymore. This thread is so polluted, I wish there would be a new one.


----------



## e-monk

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

memes are fun!!!


----------



## R-Star

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Dee-Zy said:


> I wish that there would be a thread with only the news or a way to highlight the posts that are only about the news. I get that the title gets updated but it often doesn't give enough details.
> 
> I'm just tired to filtering through all the bickering in this thread. Opinions are entertaining but sometimes, it doesn't even have to do with the trade anymore. This thread is so polluted, I wish there would be a new one.


ESPN?

Shut up.


----------



## Cris

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> ESPN?
> 
> Shut up.


I don't generally like to agree with R-star out of principle. But I'll make an exception here.


----------



## RollWithEm

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Diable said:


> I don't see how Rudy Fernandez is good enough to have his first name on the back of his jersey. Maybe he's the only guy named Rudy in Spain. How in hell is that a charge? These refs are really bad.


Perhaps this is in the wrong thread?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Dee-Zy said:


> I wish that there would be a thread with only the news or a way to highlight the posts that are only about the news. I get that the title gets updated but it often doesn't give enough details.
> 
> I'm just tired to filtering through all the bickering in this thread. Opinions are entertaining but sometimes, it doesn't even have to do with the trade anymore. This thread is so polluted, I wish there would be a new one.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Dee-Zy said:


> I wish that there would be a thread with only the news or a way to highlight the posts that are only about the news. I get that the title gets updated but it often doesn't give enough details.
> 
> I'm just tired to filtering through all the bickering in this thread. Opinions are entertaining but sometimes, it doesn't even have to do with the trade anymore. This thread is so polluted, I wish there would be a new one.


Just look for my posts...I usually keep my opinions to a minimum and generally post the latest news...because I don't give a **** any more whether its Bynum or Howard.

In regard to the thread title...we are limited in the number of characters and that is part of this issue whether you get enough info there to figure what is going on.


----------



## e-monk

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

children children let us not turn upon one another...


----------



## Adam

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

It's like Ron is taking it as a personal mission to keep this thread at the top of the forum.


----------



## R-Star

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Even though its been clear fabrication the whole time.

Almost like we want to get hits.....


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Per Twitter:




> Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
> 
> Dwight Howard also meeting with Magic brass this week. If it doesn't go well, expect Magic to re-visit talks with Lakers, possibly Rockets.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Adam said:


> It's like Ron is taking it as a personal mission to keep this thread at the top of the forum.


Adam: ever the class clown.

I am just as sick as the rest of you in regard to Dwightmare. But as long as its in play, we address it.

After all, Adam, it is a *basketball forum*. Its where we discuss basketball.

Even as I sport a hockey signature... (a championship is a championship).


----------



## R-Star

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

You're posting Sam Amico. That's not news.


But you're right. This is the Dwight thread so nothing wrong is happening here. Anyone who doesn't like it can just ignore the thread.


----------



## Wade County

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

RealGM stating Howard has reissued his desire to be traded to the Magic GM.

No shit. He said that last month.

FML this saga sucks.


----------



## R-Star

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Wade County said:


> RealGM stating Howard has reissued his desire to be traded to the Magic GM.
> 
> No shit. He said that last month.
> 
> FML this saga sucks.


"Hey, in case you guys forgot about the last year or so, yea... I uh... I still want to be traded as soon as possible."


NEWS!


----------



## R-Star

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Its too bad he's not healthy. Because right now he can just milk his injury. But if he was healthy he'd have to suit up.


I don't see him ever playing a game for the Magic again. He's far too big a coward to face the crowd.


----------



## e-monk

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

I guess I dont understand - is this the dumbest guy ever? most immature? is his agent this bad? or are they all playing some inscrutable game that only they are able to understand?


----------



## doctordrizzay

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

whoever gets dwight howard is going to have a disappointing team. Especially if he ends up in the west. Not saying the team will be bad, but that team isnt going to make it far in playoffs. Thunder Spurs Clippers Memphis are too well established right now.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



doctordrizzay said:


> whoever gets dwight howard is going to have a disappointing team. Especially if he ends up in the west. Not saying the team will be bad, but that team isnt going to make it far in playoffs. Thunder Spurs Clippers Memphis are too well established right now.


Do you really believe this? Or are you talking out of your ass again?


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



e-monk said:


> I guess I dont understand - is this the dumbest guy ever? most immature? is his agent this bad? or are they all playing some inscrutable game that only they are able to understand?


Just speculation on my part, but I would say his agent has very little say as to how Dwightmare acts from day to day.

The rest of it, I would agree with. He's stupid and immature. He can't be playing some kind of game because opting in last March was an incredibly stooopid, mentally-challenged act of pure buffoonery.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

At this point I'm more pissed at Orlando with Dwight a close 2nd.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

*Source: Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



> In a meeting with Magic officials Wednesday in Los Angeles, Dwight Howard made it clear that he's signed his last contract of any kind in Orlando and challenged the team's new front office on why he hasn't been traded yet, a person with knowledge of the meeting told CBSSports.com.
> 
> The Howard saga reached another boiling point when Howard "pointedly asked" Orlando officials why he hasn't been traded, the person familiar with the meeting said. There are indications that Howard had been given assurances from the ownership level that he would be traded soon, but the Magic have shown no urgency to deal him after proposed trades that would've sent the All-Star center to the Nets or Lakers fell apart.
> 
> "Dwight was direct and clear that he has no intention of signing another contract or an extension with the Magic," the person familiar with the meeting said.


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

He's a spoiled brat, and a moron as well. All he had to do was not sign the paper and he'd be a Brooklyn Net right now. It would be nice if Orlando's GM would grow a set and ship him out already. You're not going to get the perfect deal for an injured malcontent who releases statements almost every week saying how badly he wants out.

Too bad they don't send him somewhere he would absolutely hate, like Charlotte or Milwaukee. I don't think he has it in him to leave an extra year and a lot of money on the table to sign elsewhere.

They should take the Houston deal, at least they'd get some young guys out of it for the team to tank with next year.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> Its too bad he's not healthy. Because right now he can just milk his injury. But if he was healthy he'd have to suit up.
> 
> 
> I don't see him ever playing a game for the Magic again. He's far too big a coward to face the crowd.


I think if the Magic keep him until the trade deadline he'll just it out and fake it.

He's played his last game for the Magic.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Breaking News:

Geaux Tigers' bi-polar ex girlfriend has Dwight Howard tied up in her basement while she is handling all his trade negotiations.

"I'll play for the Magic"
"Orlando is like so humid trade me!"
"Oh Rob Hennigan you know I love you baby, I'll play for the Magic."
"**** you Rob Hennigan I hope you die at birth."
"I had a dream about you last night Rob and in it you were like a badass sexy dragon. I'm going to sign an extension."


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



JonMatrix said:


> Too bad they don't send him somewhere he would absolutely hate, like *Charlotte or Milwaukee*. I'm don't think he has it in him to leave an extra year and a lot of money on the table to sign elsewhere.


Toronto.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Geaux Tigers said:


> Breaking News:
> 
> Geaux Tigers' bi-polar ex girlfriend has Dwight Howard tied up in her basement while she is handling all his trade negotiations.


What else of Dwight's is she handling?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: DWIGHTMARE UPDATE: Magic May Wait On Howard Deal*



doctordrizzay said:


> whoever gets dwight howard is going to have a disappointing team. Especially if he ends up in the west. Not saying the team will be bad, but that team isnt going to make it far in playoffs. Thunder Spurs Clippers Memphis are too well established right now.


Riggghtttt......


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Ron said:


> Toronto.


That's a good one.

Philadelphia would work too. His reaction the first time the fans there turn on him would be priceless.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Ron said:


> What else of Dwight's is she handling?


Hell if I know. You can call her and find out. But once you call...you WILL end up changing your phone number, growing a mustache and moving.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Ron said:


> I think if the Magic keep him until the trade deadline he'll just it out and fake it.
> 
> He's played his last game for the Magic.


Yep. 

I'm fairly sure hes there until the deadline, and then gets swapped to LA for Bynum, as much as I know you hate to hear it.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> Yep.
> 
> I'm fairly sure hes there until the deadline, and then gets swapped to LA for Bynum, as much as I know you hate to hear it.


Honestly, with Bynum's attitude lately, I am beginning to soften my stance. The Lakers are going to have a moron at center, whether its Bynum or Howard. I am resigned to it...I still rather have Bynum there, but my feelings are not so pronounced as before.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Geaux Tigers said:


> Hell if I know. You can call her and find out. But once you call...you WILL end up changing your phone number, growing a mustache and moving.


I had one of those once...silly me, I married her.

But that was 31 years ago, and quickly remedied that mistake two years later. Crazy bitch.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Let's all make the conscience decision to ignore everything til a deal is done. Not - teams are talking, what's on the table, close, imminent. Only Done.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Are reiterations okay?


----------



## King Joseus

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Wild, crazy speculation?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Dissonance said:


> Let's all make the conscience decision to ignore everything til a deal is done. Not - teams are talking, what's on the table, close, imminent. Only Done.


**** that. You know it will never work. Yet again the forum needs me, so I'll fix the problem myself.


So anyways, I just mixed up a hot chocolate and Baileys and am going to play a video game. Anyone have one of the Keurigs? Its possibly the greatest invention for the home in the last 10 years.

And I don't think anyone realizes Baileys is weak as shit, because when I'm pouring it into my drink I always hear "You're disgusting. How can you put that much in?" Its like ****ing coffee creamer. Its weak. You need to add a lot.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

I got an e-mail that OS X Mountain Lion is now available for $19.99.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

I like MT Dew.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Also, there is this...

*Katherine Jackson: 'I am devastated' that Michael's kids have been taken from me*


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Ron said:


> I got an e-mail that OS X Mountain Lion is now available for $19.99.


Yep. Crazy its so cheap. 

I run windows on my iMac though. And I gave it to my wife anyways so this news while exciting, doesn't really matter to me.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Okay, here are a couple of new ones...always entertaining, this DH12 guy. :laugh:



> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> 
> Howard's camp has consistently warned Houston not to trade for him, that he'd march right into Dallas' cap space next summer.





> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> 
> Orlando officials have repeatedly told people they want the kind of knockout package Denver received for Anthony, but will it present self?


Uh...no, it won't Orlando. Stop dreaming.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> 
> Howard's camp has consistently warned Houston not to trade for him, that he'd march right into Dallas' cap space next summer.


What a chump this guy is.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

I doubt any team is dumb enough to give up all the things New York gave up just to get Carmelo. Unless Orlando has another great player to offer like Denver did when they also gave away Billups, I just don't see them getting that lucky.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

People on here still refuse to admit the Nuggets even got a good haul back for Melo


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Dre said:


> People on here still refuse to admit the Nuggets even got a good haul back for Melo


Who?


----------



## l0st1

R-Star said:


> So anyways, I just mixed up a hot chocolate and Baileys and am going to play a video game. Anyone have one of the Keurigs? Its possibly the greatest invention for the home in the last 10 years.


Is it? My girlfriend wants to get one but I don't drink coffee so I wasn't sure if it was necessary to get that nice of one.

Not even sure how hot chocolate works in a coffee machine.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

There were people in that huge Melo thread that were saying the Nuggets were better off bottoming out then taking the package they eventually got from New York.

I can remember Ehmunro and HKF off the top of my head saying it wasn't a good package, but of course Munro will have some kind of excuse.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Dre said:


> There were people in that huge Melo thread that were saying the Nuggets were better off bottoming out then taking the package they eventually got from New York.
> 
> I can remember Ehmunro and HKF off the top of my head saying it wasn't a good package, but of course Munro will have some kind of excuse.


Nah. You're wrong. Now he's going to point out how stupid you are for saying he never admits he's wrong.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



l0st1 said:


> Is it? My girlfriend wants to get one but I don't drink coffee so I wasn't sure if it was necessary to get that nice of one.
> 
> Not even sure how hot chocolate works in a coffee machine.


They're great. Especially if she only has a few cups a day. You make a cup at a time instead of a pot.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> **** that. You know it will never work. Yet again the forum needs me, so I'll fix the problem myself.
> 
> 
> So anyways, I just mixed up a hot chocolate and Baileys and am going to play a video game. Anyone have one of the Keurigs? Its possibly the greatest invention for the home in the last 10 years.
> 
> And I don't think anyone realizes Baileys is weak as shit, because when I'm pouring it into my drink I always hear "You're disgusting. How can you put that much in?" Its like ****ing coffee creamer. Its weak. You need to add a lot.


it's not without alcohol. It has like 30 proof. You just gotta add more whiskey.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hibachi! said:


> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> 
> Howard's camp has consistently warned Houston not to trade for him, that he'd march right into Dallas' cap space next summer.
Click to expand...

I need a gif w/ Mark Cuban peering over Dwight Howard...SOON


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> They're great. Especially if she only has a few cups a day. You make a cup at a time instead of a pot.


ehm is always for bottoming out

(if you know what I mean)


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Everyone knows that if you accelerate a box truck with the backdoor partly open, gravity will close the door.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Per Twitter:



> ramonashelburne ‏@ramonashelburne
> 
> NBA thought it was helping owners w/ rules to encourage staying with current team. Instead it's hurt reputations of its brightest stars
> 
> I say all this w/out any objective or angle to play. I don't care where Dwight ends up. Just as an observer
> 
> It should always be noted that fatigue at a story like this is shared by media covering it and readers who continue interest in it
> 
> Players, agents, teams involved have some culpability too when they use media to leverage positions


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

True shit

Players have culpability but you have to realize they're playing both sides of the fence and trying to please everybody because of that same culture that she just described.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

What did the NBA do? Make it so Dwight would make less money if he left? Oh poor poor Dwight.

If he wants out as bad as he's saying, he should have considered that. Instead, he's just demanded the team trade him to 1 team for garbage so that he could have a bright future. You have to hate the god damn NBA for that right? No.

Now he's spending all his time in LA going to Dodger games and shit because he's willing to go there now? These guys a ****ing bag of shit. So is that dumb bitch I've never heard of before for trying to make a poor Dwight story.

Hell, even Hyperion has stopped with the "Its not fair to Dwight" posts.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Geaux Tigers said:


> Everyone knows that if you accelerate a box truck with the backdoor partly open, gravity will close the door.


Everyone knows that it's called momentum/inertia (depending on whether you're looking at the door or the truck) not gravity. The earth isn't closing the door because it's pulling the door downwards.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> Everyone knows that it's called momentum/inertia (depending on whether you're looking at the door or the truck) not gravity. The earth isn't closing the door because it's pulling the door downwards.


It would also involve mass acceleration/resistance from the wind.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> What did the NBA do? Make it so Dwight would make less money if he left? Oh poor poor Dwight.
> 
> If he wants out as bad as he's saying, he should have considered that. Instead, he's just demanded the team trade him to 1 team for garbage so that he could have a bright future. You have to hate the god damn NBA for that right? No.
> 
> Now he's spending all his time in LA going to Dodger games and shit because he's willing to go there now? These guys a ****ing bag of shit. So is that dumb bitch I've never heard of before for trying to make a poor Dwight story.
> 
> Hell, even Hyperion has stopped with the "Its not fair to Dwight" posts.


Yeah. They all ****ed up. I was just saying that dwight isn't smart enough to manipulate the media like this. He did start this shit storm by publicly asking out. It's funny though. When kobe sats he wants out, they get him an all star. Orlando gets rid of any decent players


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> Yeah. They all ****ed up. I was just saying that dwight isn't smart enough to manipulate the media like this. He did start this shit storm by publicly asking out. It's funny though. When kobe sats he wants out, they get him an all star. Orlando gets rid of any decent players


Kobe didn't get Phil Jackson fired and basically tell the team "I'm not coming back no matter what ****ers!"

If Orlando went out and made some huge trade that improved the team, Dwight would have still been gone.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Nice summary on Howard's situation at this point in time:

*With summer trade unlikely, Howard's rift with Magic can only widen*


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

"Why haven't you traded me!"

Uhhh, probably because they don't have to you sniveling piece of shit. That's probably why. Probably because you don't hold the cards or call the shots. The Magic do.

So shut the **** up. Rehab, and get ready to honor your contract when called upon to do so. 


The Magic own you until the end of next season. Maybe you shouldn't have signed an extension you jackass.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Is there any way the Magic can actually play Dwight when he's healthy? They have to sit him, right?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

if they sit him dont they run the risk of people worrying that he's damaged goods?


----------



## Headliner

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

He was done like six months ago. This isn't nothing new.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



RollWithEm said:


> Is there any way the Magic can actually play Dwight when he's healthy? They have to sit him, right?


I'd play him as soon and as much as I can. 

Bynum will probably play like the best center in the league while Dwight is out, so you want him out there to remind the Lakers there's a better player on the table. 

And Dwight has already gone out of his way to do as much damage as he could to try to force Orlando's hand, so they should take some joy in putting him out on the floor to a chorus of boo's every night for as long as they can. Now that he can't fake "its all good!" interviews and smile at everyone, he'll pout and in all honestly probably cry when he has to face reality and can't lie his way out of it.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> Kobe didn't get Phil Jackson fired and basically tell the team "I'm not coming back no matter what ****ers!"
> 
> If Orlando went out and made some huge trade that improved the team, Dwight would have still been gone.


He did get phil fired and then asked to be traded. Lakers are just a competent organization and can figure out how to get talent together to compete. Orlando is one of the most inept organizations in the nba. Dwight lives in a state with no income tax, a city with a while lot of hot trashy chicks, and is the alpha dog on his team. The only problem is that the team keeps bringing in crappy talent relative to the contact size. And crappy talent in general.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> He did get phil fired and then asked to be traded. Lakers are just a competent organization and can figure out how to get talent together to compete. Orlando is one of the most inept organizations in the nba. Dwight lives in a state with no income tax, a city with a while lot of hot trashy chicks, and is the alpha dog on his team. The only problem is that the team keeps bringing in crappy talent relative to the contact size. And crappy talent in general.


People talk shit like this all the time.

You cheer for the Suns. What did they manage to accomplish with Steve Nash? 

People bring up Kobe and the Lakers like its a normal comparison. In reality Buss has some sort of dirt on everyone in the league, employs the criminal underworld to threaten trades into happening, has some sort of super drug that only he has access to, can cure cancer, or something. Because the trades the Lakers get don't make sense. 

"Hey, here's a draft pick and some 2nd round garbage we got from another team. Oh, and you can have one of our shitty white guys too. Now give us your star player."

That doesn't work. Well it shouldn't anyways. The Lakers employ warlocks or something.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Dre said:


> I can remember Ehmunro and HKF off the top of my head saying it wasn't a good package, but of course Munro will have some kind of excuse.


What in the name of god are you babbling about? I said at the time that they got a collection of roleplayers (and now overpriced roleplayers as they try to justify the deal) and the last time we went through this and you said that they got a collection of star-level talent and that I'd deny my earlier assertion I repeated it and pointed out that by the numbers my original assertion was correct. 

Gallinari was the the fifth or sixth best player on the Nuggets last year, and he was the best of the lot they got. He's an offensive roleplayer whose offense is vastly overrated (given that his scoring efficiency is an adolescent pubic hair above NBA average and his eFG% is below NBA average). He's fungible. So's Wilson. Oh, and they play the position. And neither of them are particularly good anywhere except SF. So, yeah, they got roleplayers for Anthony. On the bright side they saved about $20 million in salary if memory serves (factoring for the luxury taxes they would have paid on the salary they dumped).


----------



## l0st1

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> They're great. Especially if she only has a few cups a day. You make a cup at a time instead of a pot.


Despite this being completely off topic I have to ask, Is there difference in the models? I've seen ranges from like $99 to like $200+. How good can the coffee possibly be


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Headliner said:


> He was done like six months ago. This isn't nothing new.


That's not a true statement.

Within the past six months, he has demanded to be traded, preferably to the Nets, but then gave the Magic a three-team list (Nets, Lakers, Mavs), then he got cold feet, and opted in for another year, then the season ended, then he started his demands to be traded again.

He's all over the place. It's no wonder Magic management is just as confused as the rest of us.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



l0st1 said:


> Despite this being completely off topic I have to ask, Is there difference in the models? I've seen ranges from like $99 to like $200+. How good can the coffee possibly be


Nothing is off-topic in this thread.

I thought we made it clear last night when we started talking about coffee makers, Mac OS X operating systems, Mountain Dew, skanky girlfriends, and Michael Jackson's kids.

By the way, Twitter has totally crashed. Look at the web page that comes up... :laugh:


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> *He did get phil fired and then asked to be traded*.


nope, didnt happen, Phil walked after they lost to the Pistons in 2004 the summer Shaq was traded and Kobe didnt go public for another couple seasons at which point they actually brought Phil back - there's plenty of reasons for people to not like Kobe without making shit up


----------



## l0st1

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Well that's good to know. 

Bring on some more random topics.


----------



## Headliner

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Ron said:


> That's not a true statement.
> 
> Within the past six months, he has demanded to be traded, preferably to the Nets, but then gave the Magic a three-team list (Nets, Lakers, Mavs), then he got cold feet, and opted in for another year, then the season ended, then he started his demands to be traded again.
> 
> He's all over the place. It's no wonder Magic management is just as confused as the rest of us.


That's what I'm saying. I fully believe that in his heart he didn't want to rejoin the Magic. The only reason he did is because he doesn't want the backlash of leaving mid-season plus he wants to be liked so bad. He claims it was loyalty but I'm just not buying it. In theory in doesn't matter anyway as he'll get natural backlash for leaving regardless of when it is.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

bottom line is he should have never exercised the option in March - then all his dreams could have come true


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



e-monk said:


> nope, didnt happen, Phil walked after they lost to the Pistons in 2004 the summer Shaq was traded and Kobe didnt go public for another couple seasons at which point they actually brought Phil back - there's plenty of reasons for people to not like Kobe without making shit up


Phil's contract was not renewed. Then two years later kobe asked to be traded. How did I make anything up? Then, rather than imploding, the Lakers got Gasol. Was Johnson unavailable? Why didn't they get Deron? They have a bunch of backup players playing starter minutes. 

Anyways, my point was that kI could have easily been in this situation in 2008. However, the Lakers went out and have him a reason to stay. Orlando has done the opposite.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> Phil's contract was not renewed. Then two years later kobe asked to be traded. How did I make anything up?


well I guess for starters you claimed that Kobe got Phil fired when that isnt even close to what happened - disatisfied with the on-going negotiations Phil walked when he realized they were blowing shit up and going into rebuilding mode


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> Everyone knows that it's called momentum/inertia (depending on whether you're looking at the door or the truck) not gravity. The earth isn't closing the door because it's pulling the door downwards.


Don't start friction between us.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Geaux Tigers said:


> Don't start friction between us.


depends on what your frictional coefficient is.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



e-monk said:


> well I guess for starters you claimed that Kobe got Phil fired when that isnt even close to what happened - disatisfied with the on-going negotiations Phil walked when he realized they were blowing shit up and going into rebuilding mode


A quick wiki/google proves you wrong. So lets move on.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> A quick wiki/google proves you wrong. So lets move on.


if it did I'm sure you'd have linked it but it doesnt because it is isnt and wasnt - please link "Kobe got Phil fired" that's what you claimed and it's a balls out falsehood - I'm waiting

the words you dont want to say are "yeah I was wrong, whatever, **** Kobe he's a dick anyway"

or you could do:

"**** it I dont care, I hate that stupid mother****er, whatever!"

or

"Argh!!!!!!!! FUUUCCKKKK KOBE!!!"


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

also Im sorry about Franklin - Im a softy when it comes to pets, especially Beagles


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



e-monk said:


> if it did I'm sure you'd have linked it but it doesnt because it is isnt - please link "Kobe got Phil fired" that's what you claimed and it's a balls out falsehood - I'm waiting
> 
> the words you dont want to say are "yeah I was wrong, whatever, **** Kobe he's a dick anyway"
> 
> or you could do:
> 
> "**** it I dont care, I hate that stupid mother****er, whatever!"
> 
> or
> 
> "Argh FUUUCCKKKK KOBE!!!"


There was a lot of tension between both men, and many say that Jackson leaving was something Kobe himself wanted. Jackson didn't get "fired", but you can't just sit there and say that Kobe wasn't a big reason for Jackson leaving the team, especially considering how he made a book a short time later where all he does is basically derail Bryant in every way possible.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Wiki phil jackson.

Also thanks man. He was a great dog and friend.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Looks like Stern is pointing the finger at Fegan for all these "leaks", which to me has been fairly obvious since this summer of bullshit started.

It was a failed attempt to get the ball rolling on some Dwight trades. It backfired in his face and now Dwight is still stuck with the Magic, looking worse than ever. He needs to fire him.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Fegan is fueling the leaks. It has to be either him or the Nets execs. Those are the two parties that stand the most to gain.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> Wiki phil jackson.
> 
> Also thanks man. He was a great dog and friend.


My condolences. They really are like members of the family.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> Looks like Stern is pointing the finger at Fegan for all these "leaks", which to me has been fairly obvious since this summer of bullshit started.
> 
> It was a failed attempt to get the ball rolling on some Dwight trades. It backfired in his face and now Dwight is still stuck with the Magic, looking worse than ever. He needs to fire him.


Not sure why Stern even bothered. Anyone with half a brain knew it was Fegan.

"Attending the meeting with Howard were his agent, Dan Fegen, and the GM and assistant GM of the Magic."

Gee, I wonder which one of those four is gonna blab?

Duh.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

I tried registering the account "Ron" on Hockeyforum.com but I guess all the shitscope sites share accounts and it was already taken. I'm going to register at hockeyforum with your name and only talk basketball.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Adam said:


> I tried registering the account "Ron" on Hockeyforum.com but I guess all the shitscope sites share accounts and it was already taken. I'm going to register at hockeyforum with your name and only talk basketball.


Must be Ron actually registered for over there. I made an R-Star account there years ago so it doesn't slide over like you're saying. 


No one posts there anyways so you'll be wasting your time.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

Dan Fegan Confirms Media Leaks



> "On the morning prior to Wednesday's supposedly confidential meeting between Dwight Howard and Rob Hennigan, there were media reports stating a meeting was taking place later that same day," wrote agent Dan Fegan of LaGardere Unlimited in an email. "Prior to the actual meeting, Dwight's business manager and I met with Rob, reminded him that we had not requested the meeting, had been reluctant to take it and were concerned that the Magic had leaked that a meeting was taking place.
> 
> "Both during and after the meeting, we continued to get communications from the media telling us that they had confirmation that the meeting was occurring and/or had taken place. After the meeting, some media requested comments on information they allegedly already had on what had taken place in the meeting. I want to stress that none of the information the reporters had about the meeting at this point came from us.
> 
> "After receiving these media inquiries, I called Rob and left several messages expressing concern that what had occurred in the meeting was not going to be accurately reported -- as had happened on previous occasions -- and that we were going to respond to the media inquiries to make sure that reports were accurate. To a limited extent, that is what we did."


http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8206783/dwight-howard-agent-dan-fegan-confirms-david-stern-accusation


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

What a scum bag piece of shit. 

"Well yea I talked to the media. But its because they talked first."

No they didn't you lying ****.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

For some reason, I think that the Magic are trying to soon dwight leaving as hard as they can. Both fagen and the magic are acting like small children. I can't believe that this is such a total cluster ****.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

What are the Magic doing wrong?


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*

........ What have they done right?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> ........ What have they done right?


Give me an example other than them mishandling putting talent around Dwight.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> What are the Magic doing wrong?


Well, people are tired of hearing about it so they should just trade him to make the fatigued fans happy. Doesn't matter what they get in return, it's not like it's a franchise changing move or anything and everyone's tired of hearing about it.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



hobojoe said:


> Well, people are tired of hearing about it so they should just trade him to make the fatigued fans happy. Doesn't matter what they get in return, it's not like it's a franchise changing move or anything and everyone's tired of hearing about it.


Well at least someone isn't regurgitating the same tired bullshit on here.

"Yea yea! The Magic suck because other guys say so."


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

"Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads."

Heard one of the KSPN radio guys say that this morning.

So perfectly true. Can't get enough of this shit. What a ****ing cluster-**** drama. :laugh:


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



R-Star said:


> Give me an example other than them mishandling putting talent around Dwight.


so other than their entire history. I guess i can't. Other than them leaking every single trade possibility, and don't tell me it was all fagen because you and I both know that that is bull shit. Both sides are doing that shit. In fact, I would wager that the magic were leaking these trades in ahn attempt to start a budding war for dwight.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

Meh...I think most of us kicked it a long time ago


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: Source Says Dwight tells Magic he's done in Orlando*



Hyperion said:


> so other than their entire history. I guess i can't. Other than them leaking every single trade possibility, and don't tell me it was all fagen because you and I both know that that is bull shit. Both sides are doing that shit. In fact, I would wager that the magic were leaking these trades in ahn attempt to start a budding war for dwight.


A bidding war for Dwight?

:laugh:

Because there were some people sitting on the fence and the magic thought making it look like even more of a 3 ring circus would attract more offers?


You're delusional when it comes to this.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

It's Gil salesmanship 101. Good ole Gil needs a sale. I am actually baffled that you think the magic front office is anything but completely incompetent. Maybe I'm a little ready on froggy because he's just as big of a douche as most superstars so I pretty much expect it. he's just some kid who gets millions of dollars for dunking a basketball and isn't really expected to be a mensa candidate. However, the front office is supposed to be professional at all times.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

I love how you and a few others like to pretend the Magic front office don't employ at least one guy who's smarter than R-Star.


----------



## hobojoe

You know what's really smart? Doing all of the necessary work behind the scenes to make sure they get the best trade and not worrying what basketball fans are tired of hearing about.


Sent from my iPad using VS Free


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



R-Star said:


> I love how you and a few others like to pretend the Magic front office don't employ at least one guy who's smarter than R-Star.


I'm sure they do and that guy is promptly undercut. Every time the phone rang in orlando the press knew about it. You think any team would seriously publicly put a player in the trading block, a player that they probably wouldn't trade otherwise, and submarine any chance if keeping that player even if the trade falls through?

Just talking to orlando would hurt your team.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> I'm sure they do and that guy is promptly undercut. Every time the phone rang in orlando the press knew about it. You think any team would seriously publicly put a player in the trading block, a player that they probably wouldn't trade otherwise, and submarine any chance if keeping that player even if the trade falls through?
> 
> Just talking to orlando would hurt your team.


Most people realize if was Feagan leaking all those calls.

Why on earth would Orlando leak their own trades? And of all things leak them, and lie and embellish, making up unrealistic returns?

Again, you're honestly not viewing this rationally.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

Didn't Larry Bird kick Ron Artest to the curb and start taking offers? Is he incompetent?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Dre said:


> Didn't Larry Bird kick Ron Artest to the curb and start taking offers? Is he incompetent?


God. Remembering how much of a train wreck the team was back then is upsetting.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

R-Star to be fair you aren't really viewing this rationally either.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



XxIrvingxX said:


> R-Star to be fair you aren't really viewing this rationally either.


Because I don't run around high fiving and saying "Yes! Trade rumors! Dwight is being traded in the next few days for sure!"


If you go back and read the last 20 or so pages, I'm one of the only people who is being rational.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

So every time Orlando fields a call from a team and it ends up on Hoopshype or twitter, it was Fagen's doing even though he often never even got a call or was in the room?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> So every time Orlando fields a call from a team and it ends up on Hoopshype or twitter, it was Fagen's doing even though he often never even got a call or was in the room?


Or he's just leaking fake news?

What's more believable of these three options.

1) Orlando has talks with Houston. Decide to immediately go out and leak the deal, adding in players that were never agreed upon. Houston waits a few days and then comes backs saying "What? We never said we'd take all their bad contracts. Maybe 1. Not all of them though. Now I'm not sure we want to deal at all."

2) Dan Fegan, who is trying to get Dwight out of Orlando by any means necessary, leaks an unbelievably good deal from Houston to the media in an attempt to get the bidding war going again. Deal turns out to be completely fabricated and fake, but did seem to get trade offers going again.

3) Random nobodies in the media with twitter accounts type "Dwight Howard agrees too..... click on link for more info" to get hits on their websites and make a name for themselves. Even if it means completely fabricating a story to do so.


To me, two of those seem very plausible, while one seems ridiculous and has no chance of happening.



Why some of you want to make this some weird fantasy world where Orlando is run by a front office of the dumbest people in the world who go out of their way to sabotage themselves in very obvious ways is beyond me.

At some point you have to say "Hey, maybe I was wrong about this. Thanks for walking me through it."


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



R-Star said:


> Because I don't run around high fiving and saying "Yes! Trade rumors! Dwight is being traded in the next few days for sure!"
> 
> 
> If you go back and read the last 20 or so pages, I'm one of the only people who is being rational.


There's a difference between being rational and just being in straight up denial. Although I pretty much knew the three way trade that would've gotten Bynum to Cleveland would actually happen simply because most likely isn't stupid enough to do a trade like that, I liked the idea that it possibly COULD happen (on the one possible chance from god that the owner of Orlando for some strange reason would actually do the trade) and imagining what it would be like to have Bynum playing alongside Irving in Cleveland (I also wonder what would it be like if Kevin Love played here in Cleveland with Irving...I would go up to Gilbert and kiss his feet just for getting him in Cleveland).

You were right. All of the predictions you made regarding the supposed possible trades regarding Howard ended up not going through. But you also act like they were never being discussed, that the idea of them being discussed was just all a lie. It wasn't. Come on now. You know better then that. Just because they never fell through doesn't mean they weren't ever being discussed (although I find the Houston one hard to believe, I just can't see Orlando's owner actually expect Houston to agree to that trade with a straight face). You can say what ever trade rumor comes up won't happy and I will probably agree with you, even if on some of the occasions I don't want to, but please tone it down on the lie parts, neither of us know enough about what goes on to actually know that for sure.

Edit: Okay now I immediately see no reason as to why I put that "difference between being rational and being in straight up denial" part. That just makes no sense at all considering what the point I'm trying to make is...


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



XxIrvingxX said:


> There's a difference between being rational and just being in straight up denial. Although I pretty much knew the three way trade that would've gotten Bynum to Cleveland would actually happen simply because most likely isn't stupid enough to do a trade like that, I liked the idea that it possibly COULD happen (on the one possible chance from god that the owner of Orlando for some strange reason would actually do the trade) and imagining what it would be like to have Bynum playing alongside Irving in Cleveland (I also wonder what would it be like if Kevin Love played here in Cleveland with Irving...I would go up to Gilbert and kiss his feet just for getting him in Cleveland).
> 
> You were right. All of the predictions you made regarding the supposed possible trades regarding Howard ended up not going through. But you also act like they were never being discussed, that the idea of them being discussed was just all a lie. It wasn't. Come on now. You know better then that. Just because they never fell through doesn't mean they weren't ever being discussed (although I find the Houston one hard to believe, I just can't see Orlando's owner actually expect Houston to agree to that trade with a straight face). You can say what ever trade rumor comes up won't happy and I will probably agree with you, even if on some of the occasions I don't want to, but please tone it down on the lie parts, neither of us know enough about what goes on to actually know that for sure.
> 
> Edit: Okay now I immediately see no reason as to why I put that "difference between being rational and being in straight up denial" part. That just makes no sense at all considering what the point I'm trying to make is...


No one said these teams aren't talking. But are they talking and running out to tell everyone what the deals entail? No. Not a chance.

If you're even in the ballpark of having a deal close from both sides, neither team is going to go out and leak the specifics to the media, because its just going to ruin the deal.

The Magic are listening to offers for Dwight. They want to trade him for the best deal possible. But most of what you hear from the media is pure speculation.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



R-Star said:


> Or he's just leaking fake news?
> 
> What's more believable of these three options.
> 
> 1) Orlando has talks with Houston. Decide to immediately go out and leak the deal, adding in players that were never agreed upon. Houston waits a few days and then comes backs saying "What? We never said we'd take all their bad contracts. Maybe 1. Not all of them though. Now I'm not sure we want to deal at all."
> 
> 2) Dan Fegan, who is trying to get Dwight out of Orlando by any means necessary, leaks an unbelievably good deal from Houston to the media in an attempt to get the bidding war going again. Deal turns out to be completely fabricated and fake, but did seem to get trade offers going again.
> 
> 3) Random nobodies in the media with twitter accounts type "Dwight Howard agrees too..... click on link for more info" to get hits on their websites and make a name for themselves. Even if it means completely fabricating a story to do so.
> 
> 
> To me, two of those seem very plausible, while one seems ridiculous and has no chance of happening.
> 
> 
> 
> Why some of you want to make this some weird fantasy world where Orlando is run by a front office of the dumbest people in the world who go out of their way to sabotage themselves in very obvious ways is beyond me.
> 
> At some point you have to say "Hey, maybe I was wrong about this. Thanks for walking me through it."


Like I said, it's all of the above. I'm not sitting here saying fagen our the media are innocent. I'm merely starting that orlando is also participating. My proof that they're incompetent is that they let their coach open a public feud with their star player and did nothing about it. That's the definition of incompetent leadership


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> Like I said, it's all of the above. I'm not sitting here saying fagen our the media are innocent. I'm merely starting that orlando is also participating. My proof that they're incompetent is that they let their coach open a public feud with their star player and did nothing about it. That's the definition of incompetent leadership


Let their coach?

Stan did it on his own. 

And then they fired him for it.


Again, you are completely off your rocker when it comes to this subject.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

Fired him at the end of the season. They have a history of giving out insanely stupid contracts and terrible trades. If this was a moderately run organization, then I would blame the agent and the media. Denver was very professional about shopping melo. Same with the jazz with williams.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

By the way, they just hired Jacque Vaughn as their coach. If that doesn't reek of incompetence I don't know what does.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> Fired him at the end of the season. They have a history of giving out insanely stupid contracts and terrible trades. If this was a moderately run organization, then I would blame the agent and the media. Denver was very professional about shopping melo. Same with the jazz with williams.


:laugh:

And Melo and Williams pulled half the shit Dwight has right?


Come on.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

Orlando begged Dwight to opt in so that they could trade him and guess what? NOTHING HAPPENED! Why? I don't know, but that was an extreme bumbling of epic proportions. They knew he wanted out last year and instead of trading him when they could get some nice pieces, they held out for I don't know what and then begged Howard to opt in so that they could make good and trade him.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> Orlando begged Dwight to opt in so that they could trade him and guess what? NOTHING HAPPENED! Why? I don't know, but that was an extreme bumbling of epic proportions. They knew he wanted out last year and instead of trading him when they could get some nice pieces, they held out for I don't know what and then begged Howard to opt in so that they could make good and trade him.


Yep. Sounds completely reasonable....


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

Orlando should have traded Howard at the beginning of last season, tanked (well, played like they would without Howard) and then they would have had a top pick in the draft this year or maybe even had Davis. Instead they're going to drag this out over the next season and probably take peanuts because they can't let him leave for nothing....


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> Orlando should have traded Howard at the beginning of last season, tanked (well, played like they would without Howard) and then they would have had a top pick in the draft this year or maybe even had Davis. Instead they're going to drag this out over the next season and probably take peanuts because they can't let him leave for nothing....


Take peanuts? No. They'll do exactly what I've said they'll do for quite some time now. Wait until the trade deadline and put Dwight up against the wall. Then they snag a Bynum or something of similar value and dump a couple bad contracts.

And they should have traded him _before_ last season started? Oh. I'm glad you have no shame with your 20/20. No one was expecting this to play out like it did. Most thought there was a very good chance Howard was staying in Orlando prior to last season.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

btw

dwight howard agent dan fegan confirms david stern accusation

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8...ent-dan-fegan-confirms-david-stern-accusation


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



R-Star said:


> Take peanuts? No. They'll do exactly what I've said they'll do for quite some time now. Wait until the trade deadline and put Dwight up against the wall. Then they snag a Bynum or something of similar value and dump a couple bad contracts.
> 
> And they should have traded him _before_ last season started? Oh. I'm glad you have no shame with your 20/20. No one was expecting this to play out like it did. Most thought there was a very good chance Howard was staying in Orlando prior to last season.


Most? Everyone knew he was gone, they just didn't think Orlando would trade him/could trade him. We were right, they can't trade him. I have been positive he was leaving Orlando when his contract was up but was very surprised that he opted in. I really don't know why he did that.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> Most? Everyone knew he was gone, they just didn't think Orlando would trade him/could trade him. We were right, they can't trade him. I have been positive he was leaving Orlando when his contract was up but was very surprised that he opted in. I really don't know why he did that.


So, everyone around here knew it was common knowledge that Dwight was gone at the end of the season....... prior to last season.


Feel free to post links to that. I hate being that guy, but you and me both know that's horse shit. If you do find anything, it will be vague, and there will be as many people saying they think he'll stay. 

So why try to make shit up?


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

Here's a link for him asking for a trade at the beginning of last season (well, 15 days into the season). From there he should have been gone. I would have just sat him, tanked the season and traded him for picks and potential. You're not going to get a ready made superstar when your superstar wants out. 

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2011/12/dwight_howard_asks_for_trade_t.html


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> Here's a link for him asking for a trade at the beginning of last season (well, 15 days into the season). From there he should have been gone. I would have just sat him, tanked the season and traded him for picks and potential. You're not going to get a ready made superstar when your superstar wants out.
> 
> http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2011/12/dwight_howard_asks_for_trade_t.html


No. I was asking for a link from here. To a thread. Also, back then some story from nj.com wouldn't seem very reputable, now would it? Definitely not common knowledge.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



R-Star said:


> No. I was asking for a link from here. To a thread. Also, back then some story from nj.com wouldn't seem very reputable, now would it? Definitely not common knowledge.


Wait what? This IS the thread about that. The very first post in this thread is about Howard requesting a trade and that is date stamped 12-8-11.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



Hyperion said:


> Wait what? This IS the thread about that. The very first post in this thread is about Howard requesting a trade and that is date stamped 12-8-11.


And its full of people saying they doubt it will happen.

It was brought up because you said the team knew he wanted to be traded "last season" which to me sounds like prior to the most recent season, but I guess with how long the seasons been over that definition is getting a little murky.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

I forgive you. You're working long hours. It's the off season now, so it's officially called last season until next year. This trade drama is about as exciting as reality drama on style network. I hate orlando, dwight and fagen for this. It's like having a your wife talk to you about her girlfriend that you don't like and have to listen to the longest story ever that had no point other than the obvious it's time for her friend and boyfriend break up. The only problem is that this is all that she talks about for six months. After a while you just start hating everyone.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



Ron said:


> Okay, for those of you still confused why both Howard and Bynum refuse to sign any extensions with any team, and will wait it out for free agency, I have attached to this post a summary of key points of the CBA (can't find the whole document anywhere online; I found an old one for 1999-2000, and I also found a document entitled "CBA 101" but that is old [August 2010] and contains only proposals, and its not the final CBA...it includes contract terms that are "wrong").
> 
> I listened to KSPN this afternoon and there was a CBA expert on. He basically said that the *most* Howard can make by extending three years with any team that has his Bird rights (Orlando or any team he is traded to) is $65 million. However, by waiting until he becomes a free agent, he will get $117 million over five years. *So that's 2 more years and $52 million.*
> 
> Howard is not going to leave $52 million on the table.
> 
> Without going through all the complicated calculations, Bynum faces the same dilemma (at a slightly lower amount in terms of money). Does he sign an extension for three years and about $55 million, or does he go for the he go for the full five years and about $99 million? It really is a no-brainer.
> 
> So what is holding up the deal? Consensus reports now seem to point to Orlando, who is apparently just afraid of pulling the trigger.
> 
> That's about it.
> 
> Reference: http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1113/nba_proposal.pdf


I thought the new CBA was supposed to help teams retain their own players. So why is it set up to make players go to free agency instead of signing an extension with their own team?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



goodfoot said:


> I thought the new CBA was supposed to help teams retain their own players. So why is it set up to make players go to free agency instead of signing an extension with their own team?


Well, it does both. That figure is only if they go to free agency and sign an extension with the team that holds their Bird Rights. If they go to free agency and sign with any other team, they lose a year off the end of the deal and a good chunk of money every year of the contract.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

The CBA weakens the power of the extension.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*

hahahaha


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard traded to the Lakers ....*

Why the **** does it say Dwight traded to Lakers?


----------



## l0st1

*Re: Dwight Howard traded to the Lakers ....*

Was wondering the same thing


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard Nonsense*

Who did this? Looked on ESPN and Hoopshype and saw no such thing

Whoever did this needs to grow up if it's not true.


----------



## King Joseus

*Re: Dwight Howard Nonsense*

Someone thinks himself to be quite amusing is my guess.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard traded to the Lakers .... Psych!*

Stop changing the title anyway. Dwight Howard saga or whatever would suffice until he's traded. None of that other shit is funny


----------



## Ron

Who did that? I will follow up when I get home...haven't been online last couple of days.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


----------



## Ron

Looks like perhaps a fake twitter account may have run amok. I'll look into it further when I get home.

I'm at the Cal DMV for my daughter right now. Was here 1 year ago for my son and 38 years ago for myself.

It's a ****ing drag. Refreshing (not) to know some things will never change. This place is like the cockroach...will be the same always.

What a ****ing joke. And this is what I pay outrageous taxes for.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

A fake twitter? Huh

This story has officially reached down and affected BBF in a weird manner too

Ghost moderators and shit


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

I hate this thread


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> The CBA weakens the power of the extension.


I don't understand why they elected to do that, I know they are confident a player won't turn down money but it basically encourages a player to test FA waters.


----------



## Ron

*Re: LATEST DWIGHTMARE RUMOR: DH12 to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Picks to Magic*



goodfoot said:


> I thought the new CBA was supposed to help teams retain their own players. So why is it set up to make players go to free agency instead of signing an extension with their own team?


Because the owners simply ****ed up and didn't think the process through, that's why.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

They were so busy whining about BRI that the other stuff became ancillary issues.

Now when was the last time anyone even thought of the BRI


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Okay I know who did it and that person knows who did it too. The thread title was corrected within four minutes.

No need to skewer the guy for one error of judgment.

Time to move on, people.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Now there is no incentive for max players to agree to a sign and trade because they can't get an extra year by doing so.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



Dre said:


> A fake twitter? Huh
> 
> This story has officially reached down and affected BBF in a weird manner too
> 
> Ghost moderators and shit


No, I misread the original post, thinking it was the latest post but it wasn't. the VerticalSports iPhone app is still a bit buggy...like for instance I can't perform moderator functions from it. :|

It was just an error in judgment. Actually Dre you can find out for yourself who did it. If you want to PM the guy, feel free to do so, but I think we can move on from it now.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



Luke said:


> I hate this thread


This


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



Ron said:


> No, I misread the original post, thinking it was the latest post but it wasn't. the VerticalSports iPhone app is still a bit buggy...like for instance I can't perform moderator functions from it. :|
> 
> It was just an error in judgment. Actually Dre you can find out for yourself who did it. If you want to PM the guy, feel free to do so, but I think we can move on from it now.


I don't like being out of the loop.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Can we change the thread title to Orlando pimping out D Ho?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Little Jarrod Rudolph blocked me from reading his twitter page after calling him out for his bullshit stories.


Priceless.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

I say we move this thread where it belongs.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

agreed


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Where decision happens


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Where does his opt-in rank on the all-time blunder list by players (not GMs)? #1?

Can Atlanta just offer 65-75 cents on the dollar (Horford) and relieve Orlando's GM of this mess? Houston?

Can Orlando just DNP - CD him until the trade deadline?


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Dwight Howard is the drug, we are all addicted crack-heads*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> The CBA weakens the power of the extension.


This is something they shouldn't wait 7 years to correct. It would benefit both teams and players to correct this mistake.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



> Orlando and the L.A. Lakers are engaged in 4-way talks with Denver and Philadelphia on a Dwight Howard blockbuster, league sources tell Y!





> Story with working framework of possible Dwight Howard deal will be posted soon on Y! Sports.





> The four teams have been engaged in discussions for several days, league sources tell Y! No deal imminent, but talks have substance.


https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



> The Orlando Magic and Los Angeles Lakers are engaged with the Denver Nuggets and Philadelphia 76ers in a four-way blockbuster that could ultimately deliver superstar center Dwight Howard to the Lakers, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> A deal is not considered imminent, but the talks have grown serious over the course of this week, sources said.
> There are multiple moving parts in the fluid talks, but the framework of a possible deal includes Howard and Denver forward Al Harrington going to the Lakers, Philadelphia guard Andre Iguodala going to the Nuggets, Los Angeles center Andrew Bynum moving to the 76ers, and Los Angeles forward Pau Gasol and Denver guard Arron Affalo going to the Magic, sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> The Magic would have a better chance of moving Gasol in another deal to get further assets, sources said, and eliminate the risk of Bynum leaving them as a free agent in 2013. Nevertheless, there was still a sense that Gasol's and Bynum's destinations could be fluid in the talks. Either way, one would go to Orlando and the other to Philadelphia, sources said.
> 
> The proposed deal includes the Magic also gaining draft picks and salary-cap relief, sources said.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--lakers--magic-in-blockbuster-four-team-trade-talks-to-send-dwight-howard-to-l-a-.html


----------



## Basel

So we'd be getting rid of Pau and Bynum for Harrington and Dwight? No thanks.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Gasol and Afflalo for Dwight??? Pass...

Only vague references to picks/cap space.

At least article is forthright that nothing is imminent.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Kobe-Nash-Dwight is scary on paper but they have no more depth if that happens...

Nash-Kobe-Artest-Harrington-Howard is a first/second round team.
plus you add the fact that there is nothing coming off the bench?

Who is the Lakers' bench if that deal goes through?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Who would take Hedo/J-Rich. You'd imagine the teams taking Dwight and Bynum would pay that pricetag.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



kbdullah said:


> Who would take Hedo/J-Rich. You'd imagine the teams taking Dwight and Bynum would pay that pricetag.


Denver has a huge trade exception that could fit in Hedo, JRich or Big Baby.

Lakers could take on Harrington and J-Rich and still be saving money this year.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

This was the first thing that popped into my head when I read that absurd story.



> John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
> As others have noted, this one reeks of "hey Houston, we're gonna do this. I swear. I'm just about to do it. No really. Here I go ..."


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Our front court rotation would be Dwight, Jamison, Harrington and Hill.


----------



## Jorbroni

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Wait I'm confuse. Did Mitch Kupchak tell Andrew Bynum that they are committed to him not to long ago? I don't think this is a good deal for the Lakers. Al Harrington will not replace the advantages that Pau Gasol gave them. And I personally think people are putting too much into Steve Nash. While he is still in good shape, he still is a 38 year old point guard in today's NBA that can't play D. What is going to happen if they meet up with OKC again?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

more bullshit from the bullshit factory - this makes no sense for the Lakers and less sense for the Magic - deal not immanent? where's R-Star? I thought he was supposed to sheriff this nonsense


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Nuggets would have to take back a big contract in order to make this even close to fair for them. Iggy for Al Harrington??? YES, PLEASE!


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Nuggets have a $13M TPE to take back a bad contract.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Just doesn't make much sense for Orlando. Maybe if they get Evan Turner and Vucevic while having a plan for dealing Gasol for picks/prospects.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Bad for the Lakers, great for the Sixers.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

So what would the 76ers look like after this deal?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

I guaran-f-ing-T you that not one of those supposed sources has any connection to the Lakers players or front office - this is more fenanigans


----------



## doctordrizzay

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

This deal for everyone seems worse that they already have. Lakers loose two 7 footers for 1, and Harrington. Magic get a thirty something year old Gasol? shit id rather have a young Brook Lopez. Sixers lose Iggy...Denver I guess is benefits

Deal just seems bad, I hope it goes through though, Lakers will have no one except Dwight and Nash, and "superstar" Kobe. First or second round exit.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



RollWithEm said:


> So what would the 76ers look like after this deal?


If that Hawes starting at PF talk was a farce (which I'm hoping) the Sixers would actually look pretty damned good. Bynum would probably be a rental but it's as good as we could imagine them getting for Iguodala.

Wouldn't be a Final's contender still but could look to be really improved going into next season.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Dwight is one of the best defensive players ever, a perennial MVP candidate, and has led a team to the finals by himself. And people are worried about giving up Bynum and an aging Gasol? Sorry but I am doing this deal if I am the Lakers.

As far as what the deal would look like, my guess is it would be more like this:

Lakers trade: Gasol, Bynum
Lakers obtain: Howard, Harrington, Richardson

Magic trade: Howard, Davis, Richardson
Magic obtain: Gasol, Turner, Vucevic

Sixers trade: Iggy, Turner, Vucevic
Sixers obtain: Bynum, Afflalo

Denver trades: Harrington, Afflalo
Denver obtains: Iggy, Davis

With draft picks being sent to Orlando and the Magic dealing Gasol for picks/prospects.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



> WojYahooNBA Orlando's Jason Richardson has been significant name in 4-way talks too, sources tell Y! There's a scenario where he goes with Howard to LA.


...


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

I'll believe it once I start to give a shit.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

This looks a lot like way too many moving pieces to actually work. Short term it does not help the Lakers IMO. They might even be slightly worse, or if Howard does not recover from the surgery they could be a good deal worse.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Short-term Lakers would be worse, but having a superstar over the long-term would be the selling point. Problem is Pau has taken all these trade talks personally and I could easily see him saying he only wants to play in LA and scaring teams off.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Howard and two old guys is no way better than what the lakers have right now - and Howard by himself in two years isnt great shakes either

but it doesnt matter because this is all coming from Howard's agent and has no basis in fact


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



> SpearsNBAYahoo In possible Dwight Howard trade, Sixers would also send center Nikola Vucevic to Orlando, source tells Y! Sports. 7fter avg 5.5 pts,4.8 rbs.


...


----------



## FSH

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Short term. Bad deal for Lakers since they are giving up both Pau and Andrew. But long term it a way to secure another Superstar since Kobe time is starting to come to a end

But they should try to get Iggy also instead of him going to Denver if they want to win the next 2 seasons

Howard
Jordan Hill?
Iggy
Kobe
Nash

Would be nice


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Sixers arent giving up enough. Surely there must be more than Iggy and Vucevic to get Bynum....


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

There's a developing story on ESPN saying D12 to the Lakers "very close."

:sheed:


----------



## Basel

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



> A four-team trade that would send Dwight Howard to the Los Angeles Lakers is "very close" to happening and could be agreed upon Friday, league sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard.
> 
> In the proposed four-team deal, Howard and Denver Nuggets forward Al Harrington would go to Los Angeles, Lakers forward Pau Gasol and Nuggets guard Arron Afflalo would go to the Orlando Magic, Philadelphia 76ers guard Andre Iguodala would go to Denver and Lakers center Andrew Bynum would go to Philadelphia.
> 
> Earlier Thursday, Yahoo! Sports, citing sources, reported that talks of a four-team trade involving Howard have taken place this week and have "grown serious."



Per ESPN.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



Wade County said:


> Sixers arent giving up enough. Surely there must be more than Iggy and Vucevic to get Bynum....


They are probably taking on a bad contract from Orlando i.e. Glen Davis.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Ummm...Bynum and Pau for Dwight and Big Al? No thanks.

WTF? Can we at least get Jodie Meeks thrown into this biyatch in a S&T? I realize we shed some salaries by Dwight/Al for Pau/Bynum but that's just not a great trade at all.

The upgrade of Bynum to Howard is not worth one of the best big men in the game, and Big Al is solid but he isn't exactly a building block of the future. We'd need some young pieces from Denver or Philly in this deal, wouldn't we?


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

I imagine that we would also get a guy like Richardson.

But as far as trading Bynum/Gasol for Dwight, I think people are underestimating the difference between the caliber of players that they are.

Dwight is a guy that took Shard and Hedo to the Finals. Bynum isn't that caliber of player and never will be, while Gasol never was and is only going to get worse.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that idiots were arguing with me that "Oh the deal would have gone through, its just that JRich veto'd it because he doesn't want to play with Steve Nash!"

Now all the sudden he's going to the Lakers again? He changed his mind?


Enjoy your excuses from your beloved media and their "sources" over the next few days on while this trade doesn't go through. You guys seem to eat this shit up.


----------



## hobojoe

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I imagine that we would also get a guy like Richardson.


If I'm the Lakers I'm trying to at least get Davis instead of J-Rich. If I'm the Magic I'm not making this deal unless Evan Turner is coming my way.


Sent from my iPad using VS Free


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



E.H. Munro said:


> This was the first thing that popped into my head when I read that absurd story.
> 
> 
> 
> John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
> As others have noted, this one reeks of "hey Houston, we're gonna do this. I swear. I'm just about to do it. No really. Here I go ..."
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. No way this deal is that close. As far as we know, Lakers still haven't granted other teams permission to talk to Bynum, which would be key to any deal you'd think.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Why even bring Denver in at all??
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9o7tftx 


With a few philly 1st rounders going to Orlando. Who says no??


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Why even bring Denver in at all??
> http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9o7tftx
> 
> 
> With a few philly 1st rounders going to Orlando. Who says no??


Philly?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



> @Lakerholicz: RT @RicBucher: Source close to Pau Gasol: Spaniard is not in the proposed 4-team deal that would bring DHoward to Lakers.


Much better.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Much better.


Yea, makes perfect sense. I think it probably went something like this. 

*"Hello?"* _-Pau_
*"Its me, Mitch. Just wanted to call you and say if you've heard the rumors about Dwight, don't worry, it doesn't involve you."* _Kupchak_
*"Oh. Well thanks for the heads up boss."* _Gasol_
*"No worries. Anything for you Pau. You know we keep you up to date with everything involving the franchise."* _Kupchak_
*CLICK*
*Dial....... RING RING*
*"Hello friend. Its me, Pau Gasol. Just wanted to tell you I'm not involved in the trade rumors that just recently surfaced a few hours ago. Don't tell anyone ok?"* _Gasol_



Do you guys even think at all when reading and writing this shit about Dwight? Like at all?


----------



## Luke

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

I laughed out loud when I saw your avatar.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

Nope still don't give a shit.

But for the Lakers sake, why would you give up both Pau AND Bynum just to make this happen? Come on now. Find a way to keep Pau. Otherwise there's no point in going for Howard.

Edit: Oh...


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



R-Star said:


> Yea, makes perfect sense. I think it probably went something like this.
> 
> *"Hello?"* _-Pau_
> *"Its me, Mitch. Just wanted to call you and say if you've heard the rumors about Dwight, don't worry, it doesn't involve you."* _Kupchak_
> *"Oh. Well thanks for the heads up boss."* _Gasol_
> *"No worries. Anything for you Pau. You know we keep you up to date with everything involving the franchise."* _Kupchak_
> *CLICK*
> *Dial....... RING RING*
> *"Hello friend. Its me, Pau Gasol. Just wanted to tell you I'm not involved in the trade rumors that just recently surfaced a few hours ago. Don't tell anyone ok?"* _Gasol_
> 
> 
> 
> Do you guys even think at all when reading and writing this shit about Dwight? Like at all?


You're gonna love this one... Lol 



> @stephenasmith: Barring any last minute snag, D-Howard will be a Laker by tomorrow. Bynum will be in Philly. And we'll all expect a Lakers/Heat Finals.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



> Four-team talks that would send Dwight Howard to the Lakers are "progressing," a league source tells @CBSSports.





> There is guarded optimism the deal, which also involves Denver and Philadelphia, could be consummated.





> In the most likely scenario, Magic would get neither Pau Gasol nor Andrew Bynum, source says. Bynum would go to Philly if deal gets done.





> Optimism is guarded, however, because there are so many parties involved and so many Dwight deals have fallen apart.


https://twitter.com/KBergCBS


----------



## Cris

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



> Source close to Pau Gasol: Spaniard is not in the proposed 4-team deal that would bring DHoward to Lakers.
> https://twitter.com/RicBucher/status/233712041972625408


...


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

So...what is the deal?


----------



## 29380

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*

If this happens without Gasol the deal would probably look something like *this* with Orlando also getting Denver 2013 1st and/or Knicks 2014 1st and maybe a pick from Philly.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Dwight Howard nonsense*



Knicks4life said:


> If this happens without Gasol the deal would probably look something like *this* with Orlando also getting Denver 2013 1st and/or Knicks 2014 1st and maybe a pick from Philly.


And the Magic don't even get rid of Hedo? **** that.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*



> Source close to talks tells ESPN that trade call with league office has been scheduled for Friday morning to process four-team Dwight deal
> https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/233742416874729472


...


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*



> ESPNSteinLine
> Source close to talks tells ESPN that trade call with league office has been scheduled for Friday morning to process four-team Dwight deal


https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine

Its happening.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*

Bynum and J-Rich to 76ers

AI to Denver

Moe Harkless, Arron Afflalo, Harrington, Vucevic, 1st from each team to Orlando


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*

So the Lakers get Howard for Bynum and a first round pick? LOL!


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*

Broussard saying the Lakers will keep Gasol and acquire Howard.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*

There's no way this trade is Dwight Howard for Aaron Afflalo and three future firsts. There's gotta be more to this.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*

And the Lakers do it again!


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*



kbdullah said:


> There's no way this trade is Dwight Howard for Aaron Afflalo and three future firsts. There's gotta be more to this.


I think Magic just want to get rid of Howard at this point


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*

I do not get this deal for Orlando. Not one bit.

Philly make out like bandits here. Bandits I say!

Well, assuming Bynum stays beyond 1 year anyway.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*

Mitch slapping teams!! Lmao


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*

Nash
Bryant
Artest
Pau
Howard

FML. That's a title team for the next 2 years.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Lakers should build a statue of Mitch.

Magic got robbed.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*



FSH said:


> I think Magic just want to get rid of Howard at this point


But still they are getting done over in this deal. Lakers get Dwight for Bynum and scraps. Meanwhile, Philly gets Bynum for Iguodala and scraps.

What happened to all those teams supposedly willing to contribute firsts just to keep Dwight outta LA?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Sixers willing to take a chance w/o commitment from Bynum?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8252042/sources-dwight-howard-los-angeles-lakers-four-team-deal-complete



> "The Sixers are willing to take a shot (without Bynum's commitment)," one source said.
> 
> Although Bynum signing an extension with the 76ers is not out of the question, according to a source, his stance all summer has been he only will sign an extension with the Lakers.


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Lakers should build a statue of Mitch.
> 
> Magic got robbed.




Last year Howard's asking price: Pau and Bynum


This years price: Bynum and a first...





Rob Hennigan got bent over with no lube by Kupchak.



Forget Kareem, the Lakers org really should put a statue of Mitch up.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Alright. Take your shots. I knew this day would come but I enjoyed being an arrogant dick head right up until the end.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Brandon Real said:


> Last year Howard's asking price: Pau and Bynum
> 
> 
> This years price: Bynum and a first...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob Hennigan got bent over with no lube by Kupchak.
> 
> 
> 
> Forget Kareem, the Lakers org really should put a statue of Mitch up.


I think the Lakers should retire Mitch's face next to the Lakers greats.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Well Howard only staying for a year so its all good


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

The ****ing Lakers man. ****.

Well, this could put a real thorn in that Heat Dynasty I was hoping for :laugh:


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

On the side, great trade by the Sixers assuming they can retain Bynum.

Bynum instantly becomes the best big in the East, and should have some pretty huge games next season.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

And the future firsts Orlando is receiving are protected??? Why do this?


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



kbdullah said:


> And the future firsts Orlando is receiving are protected??? Why do this?




Blatant attempt at tanking? :laugh:


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> Well Howard only staying for a year so its all good


Marty McFly is that you


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

[email protected]: I've changed my mind. You'll still play the Lakers in the Finals, but you'll lose in six games.

[email protected]: ...


----------



## Lynx

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Wade County said:


> The ****ing Lakers man. ****.
> 
> Well, this could put a real thorn in that Heat Dynasty I was hoping for :laugh:


On paper, this is a solid front and back court team. Of course it has to play out well on the course of the season.

However, this has been the best Lakers offseason since 1996.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



kbdullah said:


> And the future firsts Orlando is receiving are protected??? Why do this?


In reality, the Magic have no leverage what soever. The Lakers probably have stood their ground the whole time and let the Magic find the pieces to make it all work.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*










:laugh:


----------



## NOHornets

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Knicks4life said:


> :laugh:


LOL


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> Well Howard only staying for a year so its all good


while I still halfway believe this is bullshit dont kid yourself - the dude has been in LA all summer not Orlando, not brooklyn - right here, he likes it here


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Cris said:


> In reality, the Magic have no leverage what soever. The Lakers probably have stood their ground the whole time and let the Magic find the pieces to make it all work.


b/c they are desperate for Aaron Afflalo?


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Lynx said:


> On paper, this is a solid front and back court team. Of course it has to play out well on the course of the season.
> 
> However, this has been the best Lakers offseason since 1996.


Solid is an understatement man. There's like, 3 or 4 HOF's in that starting lineup.

Al Harrington would be an underrated part of this trade. He was very good last year for Denver, a nice stretch 4 to pair with Jamison.

Nash/Blake
Bryant/who cares
Artest/Jamison
Gasol/Harrington
Howard/Hill

Not sure if Jamison can guard 3's anymore though....but won't matter really, with Dwight there to erase shots :|

Gonna be very interesting when we meet up. Our small ball versus your power game.


----------



## jayk009

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Stern should cancel this trade for basketball reasons


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I dont think the lakers get harrington in this supposed scenario do they?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Harrington is not going to LA in this


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Great deal for Denver


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



e-monk said:


> I dont think the lakers get harrington in this supposed scenario do they?


No Al to ORL


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Fantastic deal for Philly


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

My bad, Baby Al is Orlando bound. Thought he was heading to Los Angeles.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

The 76ers just passed the Nets on my East big board.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



RollWithEm said:


> Harrington is not going to LA in this


Too bad. You guys were going to be real contenders if you got him.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

So you're a new GM, you go to Orlando and the first thing you do is this....

We'll see how long Hennigan keeps his job.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Kupchak: Robbing mother****ers blind since 2008.

WTF is Orlando thinkng?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



RollWithEm said:


> The 76ers just passed the Nets on my East big board.


Where are the Pacers on that list?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



kbdullah said:


> So you're a new GM, you go to Orlando and the first thing you do is this....
> 
> We'll see how long Hennigan keeps his job.


Maybe he's been drinking too much of his own product.


_Seinfeld Reference_


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



jayk009 said:


> Stern should cancel this trade for basketball reasons




If that happened, I couldn't imagine the controversy. It'd be a nuclear media bomb dropping.

I know back in the 70's the MLB actually did something like that to the Yankees and Red Sox when they were fleecing Oakland, but that didn't receive nearly the backlash (as you'd understand with today's social media age.).


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Im just as impressed with denver for getting Iggy for peanuts... but the magic really shit the bed in this whole situation


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Lakers - Heat finals barring major injurt

I don't care what anyone says wake me up in June K bye


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



kbdullah said:


> So you're a new GM, you go to Orlando and the first thing you do is this....
> 
> We'll see how long Hennigan keeps his job.


It's not like he can act without ownerships approval.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I mean, Lakers give up Bynum and a pick for Dwight, that much I understand. I don't understand the other ends of it...why Orlando is content w/ Afflalo, Harkless, and protected first rounders from playoff teams.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



> JmitchInquirer Source: Harkless was the final piece to the deal. Sixers loved him but Orlando, wanting to get younger, had to have him.


....


----------



## -33-

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Denver:

Lawson
Igoudala
Gallinari
Faried
McGee

LA:

Nash
Bryant
Artest
Gasol
Howard

Sixers:

Holiday
Turner
Wright
Young
Bynum

Orlando:

Who cares, it's a disaster.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



-33- said:


>


Yea, they're just 1 Udonis Hasslem away from competing hey?


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Orlando Magic.. Los Angeles farm team since 1996


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

RealGM...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222911/Source_Magic_Still_Prefer_Rockets_Proposal_For_Howard



> In addition to their four-team trade talks with the Lakers, Sixers and Nuggets, *the Magic remain engaged with the Rockets in trade talks for Dwight Howard.
> 
> Houston's most recent proposal would be preferable to Orlando than the four-team proposal that would include Pau Gasol, Arron Afflalo and Nikola Vucevic, according to a source.*
> 
> Alex Martins told Sports Illustrated in an interview on Tuesday that the Magic know the type of return they are seeking for Howard and will remain patient.
> 
> "We have very specific goals as to what we would hope to achieve if we were to trade Dwight, OK?" said Martins. "We acknowledge and are realistic about the fact that you're never going to get equal value in return for Dwight Howard. But if we were to trade him, we have three primary goals that we're trying to achieve and in the end, any deal that's proposed to us I think we've been very clear about the fact about the goals of what we're trying to achieve.
> 
> "We have never delineated from that. Some may think that we have, but we have not. Clearly, when we find the right combination of pieces that we're looking for in return, that will determine whether we make a deal or not."


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

And Moe Harkless was that piece, apparently.

Cool story, Hennigan.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



roux2dope said:


> Im just as impressed with denver for getting Iggy for peanuts... but the magic really shit the bed in this whole situation


Aaron Affalo is a top 5 shooting guard in this league.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

realgm article was posted 4 hours ago


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Jamel Irief said:


> Aaron Affalo is a top 5 shooting guard in this league.


i prefer my shooting guard to be able to shoot


----------



## -33-

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



-33- said:


>


16 banners kids - you got a long way to go


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



roux2dope said:


> i prefer my shooting guard to be able to shoot


Oh, so you prefer Aflallo :willis:


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwightmare Ending In Possible 4 way*



FSH said:


> And the Lakers do it again!


Yeah, if the Pope (David Stern) doesn't step into it again.


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Dre said:


> Oh, so you prefer Aflallo :willis:


Im just messing around... i would just much much rather have iggy than afflalo


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



e-monk said:


> 16 banners kids - you got a long way to go


-33- may be in a bit of denial.

And he was beginning to post really well too...


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

And no one takes turkoglu in this! Holy shit! This is a straight mugging! Orlando just tanked this season for a crappy draft pick.


----------



## Basel

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Nash/Kobe/MWP/Pau/Dwight as our starting lineup? I'll take it.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

just let this happen please. No more Dwight stories.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Hyperion said:


> And no one takes turkoglu in this! Holy shit! This is a straight mugging! Orlando just tanked this season for a crappy draft pick.


Hedo's contract is not that bad it only has 1 guaranteed year left on it, not dumping Big Baby was a huge mistake.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Hyperion said:


> And no one takes turkoglu in this! Holy shit! This is a straight mugging! Orlando just tanked this season for a crappy draft pick.


Nothing is stopping Orlando from getting a good night's sleep and pulling out of the deal in the morning. The deal is only agreed upon "in principle." As far as I know, no confirmation faxes have gone back and forth (at least, I don't see any reports of this).


----------



## -33-

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



e-monk said:


> 16 banners kids - you got a long way to go


I'm not talking history, I'm talking about right now. Lakers aren't ready yet...they still got Mike Brown. Nash can't defend. Four of their starters are past their prime. But hey, that's why they play the games. Definitely going to be entertaining.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Poor Daryl Morey... He made all those trade to wind up right back where he started in the middle of June.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



-33- said:


> I'm not talking history, I'm talking about right now. Lakers aren't ready yet...they still got Mike Brown. Nash can't defend. Four of their starters are past their prime. But hey, that's why they play the games. Definitely going to be entertaining.


LA may have the best starting 5 in the league at the moment.....I think they will be ok.:laugh:


----------



## Eternal

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



-33- said:


> I'm not talking history, I'm talking about right now. Lakers aren't ready yet...they still got Mike Brown. Nash can't defend. Four of their starters are past their prime. But hey, that's why they play the games. Definitely going to be entertaining.


I think your forgetting Lakers now have the best defensive anchor in the game covering up for Nash.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Breaking news... Mike Brown includes his 2 page offensive playbook in trade to get Dwight Howard


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Nothing is stopping Orlando from getting a good night's sleep and pulling out of the deal in the morning. The deal is only agreed upon "in principle." As far as I know, no confirmation faxes have gone back and forth (at least, I don't see any reports of this).


I think that the inverse is also true. There is nothing stopping them from doing something stupid.


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*










At least this mess is almost over.

I guess Orlando is going to do...what exactly? They'll be bad, but will they be early lotto bad? 

At least with Houston's offer, Orlando would have ended up with some young players on rookie deals to go with their bad contracts.


----------



## Eternal

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



-33- said:


> I'm not talking history, I'm talking about right now. Lakers aren't ready yet...they still got Mike Brown. Nash can't defend. Four of their starters are past their prime. But hey, that's why they play the games. Definitely going to be entertaining.


You having to come in this thread and posting your Miami Heat images just shows your worried about the Lakers now overtaking the Heat as the best team in the league.


----------



## -33-

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Game3525 said:


> LA may have the best starting 5 in the league at the moment.....I think they will be ok.:laugh:


OKC is right there with them....

Westbrook > Nash
Sefo/Harden < Kobe
Durant > Metta
Ibaka < Pau
Perkins < Dwight
Bench > Bench
Brooks > Brown

I know I have 3 out of 5 going LA's way, but where do you hide Nash? Dwight can't always erase his mistakes, he'll get in foul trouble.


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

LAL was a few turnovers away from beating OKC BEFORE Dwight and Nash, so please explain to me how OKC is right there with them.


----------



## -33-

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Eternal said:


> You having to come in this thread and posting your Miami Heat images just shows your worried about the Lakers now overtaking the Heat as the best team in the league.












Congrats you are the first team to win the NBA championship in August. I've already given up on this season, that's how scared I am.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

:gay:


----------



## -33-

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



> AlexKennedyNBA The Orlando Magic will receive AT LEAST three first-round picks. Source says they may get a fourth pick as well.


If they get a forth pick I'm guessing its the 2014 Knicks 1st from Denver which has lotto potential in potentially the best draft since '03 still an awful trade for the Magic.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Jamel Irief said:


> Aaron Affalo is a top 5 shooting guard in this league.


You can't be serious...

Kobe, Wade, Manu, E. Gordon, Harden, Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis all a tier above at least. Kevin Martin might be better too. 

Afflalo is a third-tier shooting guard at best. And he turns 27 in October, so before the regular season starts. Not really a "young" player, but already in his prime. Hell Klay Thompson could be better than him next year and I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## garnett

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

So maybe Perkins won't be incredibly useless this year. He can guard Dwight one on one which will go a long way towards beating them in a series. Don't think the Lakers making the Finals is as much of a lock as a lot of people think, but they're going to be tough to beat no doubt.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

No Gasol = home run for LA. I think I'd still take Miami in a series though.

Philly did great too. I can see them being the atlantic champions.


----------



## Headliner

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

ESPN just broke this as breaking news so I guess it's legit now?

Lakers going to the Finals.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I put up the above flowchart for ease of explanation.

Orlando's motivation in all this is the three protected 1st round picks from each team.

Plus, they dump Richardson's shitty contract.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Newsflash! Otis Smith now officially 2nd worst GM in NBA!


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



MojoPin said:


> LAL was a few turnovers away from beating OKC BEFORE Dwight and Nash, so please explain to me how OKC is right there with them.


Um...what series did you watch???


----------



## -33-

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


>


Looks like some sort of Cold War negotiations or something with that background...regardless, Orlando loses, everyone else wins.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Headliner said:


> ESPN just broke this as breaking news so I guess it's legit now?
> 
> Lakers going to the Finals.


All four sides agreed with the terms of the deal, something that couldn't happen in the previous deals because there was always one person disagreeing. Unless someone suddenly says "you know what I don't like this deal it sucks", it's happening.


----------



## scdn

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

What is the rumoured protection on the picks?


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Um...what series did you watch???


The one where LAL would've been up 3-1 if not for boneheaded turnovers. And they've improved in two areas where they got almost nothing out of players. 

LAL lost the series more than OKC won it...


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> I put up the above flowchart for ease of explanation.
> 
> Orlando's motivation in all this is the three protected 1st round picks from each team.
> 
> Plus, they dump Richardson's shitty contract.


But they're allegedly taking back an even worse contract in Harrington's. So the Magic are allegedly about to unload Howard for green stamps on the dollar _without_ getting any cap relief. This is probably the worst superstar trade ever made. At least in the rest of these scenarios the teams getting ****ed at least get expiring deals and cap relief. Orlando gets none of that. And they're not getting any talent to compensate for getting stuck with more long-term deals. They're now in cap hell until the middle of the decade, have no trade assets, and have to pray that the lottery saves them. 

I guess the deal makes a certain amount of sense if DeVos is dying, new owners are waiting in the wings, and need shitty attendance to get out of the lease and to Seattle to become the Supersonics.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

#1 Lakers Pick can't be before 2017. 

#2


> The Los Angeles Lakers will likely receive Dwight Howard, Chris Duhon and Earl Clark. https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/...3764627249516547&tw_e=details&tw_p=tweetembed


----------



## jayk009

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

im just glad this shit is finally over...Dwight Howard is a bitch and the Magic are a joke.....

Don't think anyone could have handled the situations worse than both Dwight and the Magic....Dwight pretty much made everyone haet him and the Magic showed how imcompetent they are...They could have easily gotten a deal like this along time ago..


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Duhon and Clark? Now they really won this trade.


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



TucsonClip said:


> Breaking news... Mike Brown includes his 2 page offensive playbook in trade to get Dwight Howard


Completely false.







We all know his playbook isn't that long.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

You're losing a lot offensively switching from Bynum to Howard but gaining a lot defensively. Playing in Orlando the media doesn't really care about you like they will in LA, and Dwight still got called out for years for his pathetic offensive game. Just don't act surprised about it when he can't score in the playoffs.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

If we got Duhon and Earl Clark then we're probably sending something else out as well (Eyenga, McRoberts, Goudelock, Morris are all possibilities).

And is Chris Broussard seriously saying the Lakers aren't a sure bet to win the West? Dude...STFU


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

So my East rankings with the new 76ers positioning:

1) Heat
2) Celtics
3) 76ers
4) Nets
5) Pacers
6) Knicks
7) Bulls
8) Wizards


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Who do the 76ers have outside of Bynum? Holiday and Turner? Mehhhhhh...Nets, Pacers, Knicks better IMO


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



-33- said:


> I'm not talking history, I'm talking about right now.


difference between a fan and a guy along for the ride on the bandwagon in my book


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

All this stalling and last-second backing out by Orlando made people think the pricetag was supposed to be high. In the end, this..


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



kbdullah said:


> Who do the 76ers have outside of Bynum? Holiday and Turner? Mehhhhhh...Nets, Pacers, Knicks better IMO


The 76ers just gained a major trade asset in Spencer Hawes incredibly reasonable deal. They have a post scorer, a lot of young, hyperathletic players, and come January the ability to use Hawes to fill any holes they have. Honestly I'm putting them over Boston at this point.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



-33- said:


> *Congrats you are the first team to win the NBA championship in August. I've already given up on this season, that's how scared I am*.


holy fukstix that's funny

NOT ONE, NOT TWO, NOT....


irony of ironies


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



XxIrvingxX said:


> Um...what series did you watch???


probably the one where the Lakers with Steve Blake playing in crunch time were up by multiple possessions going into the final minutes of both game 2 and 4 before going stone cold and watching Kobe flail around? forget Howard, replace Blake with Nash in just those 4 minutes and I think there's a strong chance that series is 3-1 Lakers going into game 5


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

This feels weird to say, but I think Hawes is the perfect compliment to Bynum. I truly think they will play this line-up:

PG Holiday
SG J-Rich
SF Turner
PF Hawes
C Bynum
-------------------
F Thad
G Nick Young
F Lavoy
G Wright
G Ivey

That right there looks like a team built way better than last year's Lakers to play to Bynum's strengths. He should get 30 - 35 post touches a game with that line-up. They just have to hope he stays healthy.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

That 76ers squad is like the light version of the mid-90's Rockets. 3 floor-spreaders around a great post presence with a slasher who can create late in the shot-clock mixed in.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I just look at the 76ers lineup and a team like the Nets is better at every position except Center. 76ers are OK, but I don't see a true #1 on that team. Knicks and Pacers also more talented 1-5 IMO.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Aaron Afflalo reacts:



> Orlando .... above all i love this game .... destiny and opportunity ... excited
> https://twitter.com/arronafflalo/status/233782209952239616


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Howard just said he will test drive the lakers this year! Enjoy the rental


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Adam said:


> You're losing a lot offensively switching from Bynum to Howard but gaining a lot defensively. Playing in Orlando the media doesn't really care about you like they will in LA, and Dwight still got called out for years for his pathetic offensive game. Just don't act surprised about it when he can't score in the playoffs.


I already know about this, and that's why I have been against this trade from the beginning.

Oh well, at least we still have *ONE* current champion in Los Angeles that I enjoy watching (see signature).

By the way, where is R-Star?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

And more importantly, if the 76ers got all this bauss young talent why didn't Orlando dip into it.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



> SpearsNBAYahoo: Lakers expected to get Chris Duhon and Earl Clark in Dwight Howard deal, too, source tells Y! Magic to land 2nd rd picks


SpearsNBAYahoo


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> Howard just said he will test drive the lakers this year! Enjoy the rental


It doesn't matter.

I was getting the impression that Bynum was going to leave at the end of the season as well, so its a crap-shoot: which one of these two 7-foot *morons* will be more likely to ditch the Lakers in the summer of 2013? I guess the Lakers believe it would be Bynum.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> It doesn't matter.
> 
> I was getting the impression that Bynum was going to leave at the end of the season as well, so its a crap-shoot: which one of these two 7-foot *morons* will be more likely to ditch the Lakers in the summer of 2013? I guess the Lakers believe it would be Bynum.


It does matter. I think with Bynum now that he has rings no way would he decline a five year 100 million with the lakers. I can see Howard declining such an offer by the lakers considering he has always said he wants to play in Dallas or Brooklyn. Its a huge gamble


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



RollWithEm said:


> This feels weird to say, but I think Hawes is the perfect compliment to Bynum. I truly think they will play this line-up:
> 
> PG Holiday
> SG J-Rich
> SF Turner
> PF Hawes
> C Bynum
> -------------------
> F Thad
> G Nick Young
> F Lavoy
> G Wright
> G Ivey
> 
> That right there looks like a team built way better than last year's Lakers to play to Bynum's strengths. He should get 30 - 35 post touches a game with that line-up. They just have to hope he stays healthy.


They'll probably try it. But most PFs will roam by Hawes at will, leaving him as the backup C eventually. I just can't see a possibility that they aren't looking to upgrade the 2/3 for the postseason push and not making Hawes available as part of a package to find that last piece to put them into the first tier of contenders.


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Who will Dallas even have? A 35 year old Dirk. Um yeah...I don't think the Lakers are fearing him leaving for Dallas.


----------



## Basel

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Dwight isn't going to leave the Lakers to go to Dallas.


----------



## Eternal

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Adam said:


> You're losing a lot offensively switching from Bynum to Howard but gaining a lot defensively. Playing in Orlando the media doesn't really care about you like they will in LA, and Dwight still got called out for years for his pathetic offensive game. Just don't act surprised about it when he can't score in the playoffs.


We are not losing a lot offensively switching to Howard. Are we losing some? Sure... but Bynum doesn't show up half the time, and only plays when he "feels" like it.

Bynum IMO definitely has the potential to be better then Howard... but he is so inconsistent and those knee injuries should be a concern for any team.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

You guys actually thought/think either of these two would turn down a $100 mil deal, let alone just to get out of LA?


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Chris Duhon is a solid upgrade to Steve Blake as backup PG.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> It does matter. I think with Bynum now that he has rings no way would he decline a five year 100 million with the lakers. I can see Howard declining such an offer by the lakers considering he has always said he wants to play in Dallas or Brooklyn. Its a huge gamble


No, you haven't been paying attention to recent events and people talking...its quite clear that Bynum is *VERY* disenchanted with the Lakers dangling him every ****ing year.

So much so that it was becoming more and more evident that he would just walk next summer, money be damned.

What many people do not apparently realize is that while true the new CBA would limit his contract with any new team to four years and about $25 million less, he would just make that up with another team (or the same team) the following year in a new contract. And Bynum would be at his peak at that time (28-29 years old).

So even if he gets a career-ending injury, the dude has $37M in the bank ($74M less 50% in taxes). Ya think Bynum could live on $37M? Probably.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



TucsonClip said:


> You guys actually thought/think either of these two would turn down a $100 mil deal, let alone just to get out of LA?


See my post above. Neither Howard nor Bynum is losing a dime by "renting" one year with the Lakers and 76ers, respectively.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I just love the Laker philosophy: Let's try to win it all now ! The window is two years, maybe one if Howard leaves "which I doubt because the Lakers aren't as stupid as the Magic."

I'd rather have two possible great seasons and total rebuild than this second round purgatory they're in now. If they don't win another ring, it won't be for lack of effort.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Basel said:


> Dwight isn't going to leave the Lakers to go to Dallas.


Probably Brooklyn.

Let's face it Basel, the owners really ****ed themselves with this CBA...and they didn't even realize it.

Geez, the Lakers are going all in for the next two seasons. This team is absolutely going to *SUCK* mid-decade. And without *ANY* real draft picks remaining, we might be really bad for more than a few seasons.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> No, you haven't been paying attention to recent events and people talking...its quite clear that Bynum is *VERY* disenchanted with the Lakers dangling him every ****ing year.
> 
> So much so that it was becoming more and more evident that he would just walk next summer, money be damned.


Let's not forget that little fine incident. The one nobody would explain or even comment on. And that meeting with Mitch that he claimed he knew nothing about. 

There are issues with him that are much more than what's on the court.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



LA68 said:


> I just love the Laker philosophy: Let's try to win it all now ! The window is two years, maybe one if Howard leaves "which I doubt because the Lakers aren't as stupid as the Magic."
> 
> I'd rather have two possible great seasons and total rebuild than this second round purgatory they're in now. If they don't win another ring, it won't be for lack of effort.


While all that may be true, I hope you are prepared for five to ten really shitty seasons after that.

Perhaps something good will come out of this after all: I can buy Laker season seats for pennies on the dollar in 2021.


----------



## Basel

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



MojoPin said:


> Who will Dallas even have? A 35 year old Dirk. Um yeah...I don't think the Lakers are fearing him leaving for Dallas.


of course common sense tells you to stay with la. More money, more rings, mo:yesyesyes:re opportunity.. But this is Dwight Howard were talking about, and he has repeatedly said Dallas or Brooklyn. He wants to be the man he won't get that with Kobe as a teammate


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> of course common sense tells you to stay with la. More money, more rings, mo:yesyesyes:re opportunity.. But this is Dwight Howard were talking about, and he has repeatedly said Dallas or Brooklyn. He wants to be the man he won't get that with Kobe as a teammate


He was the man in Orlando... How did that work out?


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I think Ron is the only person I've ever seen who complains each and every time his favorite team - the Lakers - improve. May as well be constantly mediocre, eh? Screw winning.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I don't see Dwight leaving. Bynum maybe, can't see Dwight leaving unless something catastrophic happens like a major injury or a public fallout w/ Mike Brown.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Cris said:


> He was the man in Orlando... How did that work out?


Howard signed a one year extension last year so he wouldn't get traded to the lakers. Its clear he doesn't want to be there regardless of championships


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



E.H. Munro said:


> They'll probably try it. But most PFs will roam by Hawes at will, leaving him as the backup C eventually. I just can't see a possibility that they aren't looking to upgrade the 2/3 for the postseason push and not making Hawes available as part of a package to find that last piece to put them into the first tier of contenders.


Ideally for them, Lavoy Allen steps up another notch and takes command over that complimentary starting PF position.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> While all that may be true, I hope you are prepared for five to ten really shitty seasons after that.
> 
> Perhaps something good will come out of this after all: I can buy Laker season seats for pennies on the dollar in 2021.


I'm sure you remember the 90's ? :laugh:

After they clear the payroll in a few years, they'll find another team to swindle and start the process all over again. The Lakers and maybe the Spurs are the only teams I have seen that have one set system that they follow. 

Don't you think fans and players in Phoenix, Utah, etc... would love their teams to go all in for just one ring ? Those teams aren't anywhere close and won't win forever it seems. We'll be at the bottom and back up before many other teams have any success at all. I like the homerun hitters, they're also the strike out kings !


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I'm stunned that people think that Dwight would leave Lakers...

WTF would he do that!?!??!


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> Howard signed a one year extension last year so he wouldn't get traded to the lakers. Its clear he doesn't want to be there regardless of championships


That's about as much unfounded speculation as Fox News does on the Democratic party.


----------



## KG-Kid21

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

If Dwight Howard is not your nomination for biggest B**** of a NBA player in the history of the NBA then you're not smart

Denver..dec

Philly..nice

LAL...honestly potentially bad if Dwight does indeed leave..the chances of a ring this year though are looking very nice

Orlando...holy hell


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Dee-Zy said:


> I'm stunned that people think that Dwight would leave Lakers...
> 
> WTF would he do that!?!??!


Because of what Howard said himself. Before and after the trade he won't sign an extension. He's only Sayyid he wants to play for the Dallas or Brooklyn. He wants to be the man and start his own legacy something lakers can't offer


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



KG-Kid21 said:


> LAL...honestly potentially bad if Dwight does indeed leave..the chances of a ring this year though are looking very nice
> 
> Orlando...holy hell


If Dwight left, it would be strictly for money. Meaning the Lakers would have to S/T if that still exists. And the Lakers wouldn't take crap back. They'd rather let him walk and get less... a tactic the Magic didn't have the guts to use.

More money, Living in L.A., if he can give that up, he deserves whatever happens.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

• The Lakers give up Andrew Bynum, Christian Eyenga and a protected 2017 first-round pick, and receive Howard, Chris Duhon and Earl Clark.

• The Nuggets give up Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington and a protected first-round pick, and receive Andre Iguodala.

• The Sixers give up Iguodala, Nikola Vucevic, Moe Harkless, and a protected first-round pick that can be no earlier than 2015, and receive Bynum and Jason Richardson.

• The Magic give up Howard, Richardson, Duhon and Clark, and receive Afflalo, Harrington, Vucevic, Harkless, Eyenga and the three protected first-round picks mentioned above.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> Because of what Howard said himself. Before and after the trade he won't sign an extension. He's only Sayyid he wants to play for the Dallas or Brooklyn. He wants to be the man and start his own legacy something lakers can't offer


Max players don't sign extensions they wait until Free Agency and get 5 year deals instead of 4.


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> Because of what Howard said himself. Before and after the trade he won't sign an extension. He's only Sayyid he wants to play for the Dallas or Brooklyn. He wants to be the man and start his own legacy something lakers can't offer


You'd be stupid to leave $25 million on the table, whether you exercise that 5th year option or not. 

Dwight Howard may not have gone to college, but he isn't stupid. There is NO advantage to signing an extension now vs later, which is why neither Howard or Bynum won't sign.


----------



## KG-Kid21

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

What's the deal with these protected picks...lottery protected or top 3 protected?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



KG-Kid21 said:


> What's the deal with these protected picks...lottery protected or top 3 protected?


Yeah, and for how long?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



RollWithEm said:


> Ideally for them, Lavoy Allen steps up another notch and takes command over that complimentary starting PF position.


I think Allen is a perfectly acceptable defensive roleplayer. And could even survive as a starter if there were enough firepower at the 2/3. I just don't think they have that at the moment, but Spencer Hawes gives them the ability to get that guy.


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> Because of what Howard said himself. Before and after the trade he won't sign an extension. He's only Sayyid he wants to play for the Dallas or Brooklyn. He wants to be the man and start his own legacy something lakers can't offer




Bryant and Nash will be retired in two years and the Lakers will be his porsche, free for him to drive.



And above all,


Money talks, and bullshit walks. Nobody's turning down an extra 30 mil, especially at this stage in his career and coming off back surgery.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



MojoPin said:


> I think Ron is the only person I've ever seen who complains each and every time his favorite team - the Lakers - improve. May as well be constantly mediocre, eh? Screw winning.


Improve my ass.

Wait until this piece of shit walks next summer. Then you tell me how this was such a "great" trade.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Kind of sad a top 5 player gets moved and it's really not a big deal cause his dumbass should've been elsewhere any number of times ago


----------



## Cris

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Improve my ass.
> 
> Wait until this piece of shit walks next summer. Then you tell me how this was such a "great" trade.


I am of the opinion I would expect Bynum to leave the lakers far more than Howard.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Howard is a piece of shit, but I strongly doubt he will walk. If he does he'll want a S&T - and you guys should be able to acquire some reasonable pieces.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Howard isn't going anywhere. The Lakers will make the WCFs at the least...at which point it's like how do you leave that. What is your excuse for leaving that team and for where sir

He's too scared people would think winning isn't his priority


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Improve my ass.
> 
> Wait until this piece of shit walks next summer. Then you tell me how this was such a "great" trade.


Walks where? Dallas is the only feasible option and even at their advanced ages Kobe, Nash and co. are a more attractive option then Dirk and who knows what else.

And I'm a Mavs fan


----------



## doctordrizzay

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Magic dealt Dwight to the Lakers out of spite of his actions. He begged them not to do it, because A. he doesnt want to follow Shaq's shoes, and B. he doesnt want to play with Kobe.

Lakers say they think they can convince him to stay. But to be honest I don't think they will beat Spurs or Lakers, Kobe and Dwight are both Me-Me-Me players.


----------



## doctordrizzay

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Dre said:


> Walks where? Dallas is the only feasible option and even at their advanced ages Kobe, Nash and co. are a more attractive option then Dirk and who knows what else.
> 
> And I'm a Mavs fan


Atlanta, Brooklyn, Dallas are top three. Dwight has repeated he doesnt want to be with the Lakers, which is why Magic traded him to them. Magic got the buttend of the trade (for now. And they did it on purpose.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Cris said:


> I am of the opinion I would expect Bynum to leave the lakers far more than Howard.


I agree, but I also see Howard walking as well.

He doesn't want to be on the Lakers:

Per Twitter:



> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> 
> If L.A. does not work out for Dwight, says source briefed on his thinking, he knows "Dallas will be there for him." Mavs will have cap space
> 
> ESPN source says Dwight definitely NOT doing extension with Lakers. Will test drive Lakerland for season and go to free agency in July 2013


----------



## KG-Kid21

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I feel like Shaq is plotting some Tanya Harding shit as we speak...there's not a soul in the world who wants this thing to go south in LAL more than the Big Fella


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Of course from a basketball and financial standpoint it makes sense to stay with lakers. Obviously that's the lakers plan to convince him to stay. I'm simply saying what Howard been saying id that its Dallas or Brooklyn. Never once he considered the lakers long term and that should be a real concern for lakers fans


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> See my post above. Neither Howard nor Bynum is losing a dime by "renting" one year with the Lakers and 76ers, respectively.


They dont lose a dime as long as Philly and LA re-sign them to a max contract next summer. That is my point. Dwight opted into his final year with Orlando so he could be traded with his bird rights in order to pick his destination (which didnt exactly work out, but he got to LA) and receive a 30% max deal. 

Bynum can now do the same thing, however I think it would be pretty hard for him to walk away from $100 mil from the Lakers, regardless.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Improve my ass.
> 
> Wait until this piece of shit walks next summer. Then you tell me how this was such a "great" trade.


Where exactly ? The Nets decided that Lopez and Joe Johnson would take them somewhere, they no longer have room for Howard. Dallas might be a lotto team next year. 

Secretly, Atlanta has been gutting their roster. Next season they only have Horford and a couple youngsters under contract. 

Maybe he could go there ? He'll have to give up money to do so.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Dre said:


> Howard isn't going anywhere. The Lakers will make the WCFs at the least...at which point it's like how do you leave that. What is your excuse for leaving that team and for where sir
> 
> He's too scared people would think winning isn't his priority


I really don't think he is smart enough. He is an absolute *moron*. All you have to do is point to his actions and words from February on as evidence.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



doctordrizzay said:


> Magic dealt Dwight to the Lakers out of spite of his actions. He begged them not to do it, because A. he doesnt want to follow Shaq's shoes, and B. he doesnt want to play with Kobe.
> 
> Lakers say they think they can convince him to stay. But to be honest I don't think they will beat Spurs or Lakers, Kobe and Dwight are both Me-Me-Me players.


They did say on the deadline day they told him if he didn't sign the ETO waiver he'd be dealt to the Lakers as if that was a punishment...and it led to him temporarily complying.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



LA68 said:


> Where exactly ? The Nets decided that Lopez and Joe Johnson would take them somewhere, they no longer have room for Howard. Dallas might be a lotto team next year.
> 
> Secretly, Atlanta has been gutting their roster. Next season they only have Horford and a couple youngsters under contract.
> 
> Maybe he could go there ? He'll have to give up money to do so.


And I repeat:

Per Twitter:



> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> 
> If L.A. does not work out for Dwight, says source briefed on his thinking, he knows "Dallas will be there for him." Mavs will have cap space
> 
> ESPN source says Dwight definitely NOT doing extension with Lakers. Will test drive Lakerland for season and go to free agency in July 2013


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



TucsonClip said:


> They dont lose a dime as long as Philly and LA re-sign them to a max contract next summer. That is my point. Dwight opted into his final year with Orlando so he could be traded with his bird rights in order to pick his destination (which didnt exactly work out, but he got to LA) and receive a 30% max deal.
> 
> Bynum can now do the same thing, however I think it would be pretty hard for him to walk away from $100 mil from the Lakers, regardless.


You are not reading what I am writing.

If Bynum walks from the Lakers next summer, he can get a deal for 4 years and about $74 million, instead of 5 years with the Lakers, and about $99 million.

So what happens the following year, which would have been the fifth year with the Lakers?

Well, he just signs another max deal with another team...and gets close enough to the $25 million he would have gotten already with the Lakers.

There is really no risk involved, unless you get a career-ending injury. And he still has $37 million in the bank ($74 million less 50% in taxes), so he is good to go.

If he doesn't suffer a career-ending injury, he is going to get his money anyway in the long run.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Ron, yeah that is true, he can get up and leave for Dallas. He also could have done the same thing by opting out and heading to Brooklyn. Dwight wanted his money and his pick of where he goes. I honestly dont see him turning down title shots and a 30% max deal in order to take over his own team in Dallas for less money.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> You are not reading what I am writing.
> 
> If Bynum walks from the Lakers next summer, he can get a deal for 4 years and about $74 million, instead of 5 years with the Lakers, and about $99 million.
> 
> So what happens the following year, which would have been the fifth year with the Lakers?
> 
> Well, he just signs another max deal with another team...and gets close enough to the $25 million he would have gotten already with the Lakers.
> 
> There is really no risk involved, unless you get a career-ending injury. And he still has $37 million in the bank ($74 million less 50% in taxes), so he is good to go.
> 
> If he doesn't suffer a career-ending injury, he is going to get his money anyway in the long run.


So if you are to assume that is true, which I agree he could do that. He also could take the 5 years from the Lakers and then get another max deal. The logic is there for both sides. Anyway you look at it, unless he suffers a career ending injury or nobody wants to pay him the max, he still makes more money overall signing with whoever has his bird rights.

You cant just assume that in 5 years he will get another max contract, but he wont in 6 years.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Suffice it enough to say both big men have done and said enough strange and odd things the past few months enough for me to not have confidence in either one of them to do the smart thing or the right thing.

They are not only both *morons*, but they are both *very, very strange morons*.

I wonder if they have sufficient handicap-space parking in Philly?


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> You are not reading what I am writing.
> 
> If Bynum walks from the Lakers next summer, he can get a deal for 4 years and about $74 million, instead of 5 years with the Lakers, and about $99 million.
> 
> So what happens the following year, which would have been the fifth year with the Lakers?
> 
> Well, he just signs another max deal with another team...and gets close enough to the $25 million he would have gotten already with the Lakers.
> 
> There is really no risk involved, unless you get a career-ending injury. And he still has $37 million in the bank ($74 million less 50% in taxes), so he is good to go.
> 
> If he doesn't suffer a career-ending injury, he is going to get his money anyway in the long run.


And don't forget these players are run by their agents. And the agents couldn't care less where they play as long as they can squeeze every nickel and dime out of a deal. 

Bynum could very well suffer that injury sooner than later. Howard and that back, who knows ?


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



LA68 said:


> Where exactly ? The Nets decided that Lopez and Joe Johnson would take them somewhere, they no longer have room for Howard. Dallas might be a lotto team next year.
> 
> Secretly, Atlanta has been gutting their roster. Next season they only have Horford and a couple youngsters under contract.
> 
> Maybe he could go there ? He'll have to give up money to do so.


I can see Howard forcing a sign and trade to the nets next season.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> I really don't think he is smart enough. He is an absolute *moron*. All you have to do is point to his actions and words from February on as evidence.


do you know where Dwight has been all summer long? wasnt brooklyn


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



e-monk said:


> do you know where Dwight has been all summer long? wasnt brooklyn


I know he was at a Dodgers game and they left Brookyn long ago :laugh:


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Improve my ass.
> 
> Wait until this piece of shit walks next summer. Then you tell me how this was such a "great" trade.


Why even bother trading for players when you can get bounced in the second round every year, right. That is much more preferable than, ya know, trying to win a championship while your Mr. Laker is still on the team.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



NOFX22 said:


> I can see Howard forcing a sign and trade to the nets next season.


A player can't force anything if the team says no. And the Lakers will say no. They would rather scour the world for some 7 footer from Zimbabwe than to take an overpaid Lopez. Ain't gonna happen.


----------



## KG-Kid21

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



LA68 said:


> A player can't force anything if the team says no. And the Lakers will say no. They would rather scour the world for some 7 footer from Zimbabwe than to take an overpaid Lopez. Ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



MojoPin said:


> Why even bother trading for players when you can get bounced in the second round every year, right. That is much more preferable than, ya know, trying to win a championship while your Mr. Laker is still on the team.


Really?

You think the Lakers were going to get "bounced" in the second round this season with Bynum, Gasol, Nash, and Kobe? Really?

Give me a ****ing break.

And by the way, I certainly don't want to hear you complain about Howard's lack of offense or his shitty free throwing during the season. Enjoy that.


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

If Bynum disappears, you have another early exit. Howard is unquestionably the better player and it isn't even an argument.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



MojoPin said:


> If Bynum disappears, you have another early exit. Howard is unquestionably the better player and it isn't even an argument.


Wrong again.

Bynum is the better offensive player. No one disputes that.

Howard can stay in the shadows offensively because of Kobe, Nash, and Gasol.

But what happens in three years when all three of those guys are gone?


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Really?
> 
> You think the Lakers were going to get "bounced" in the second round this season with Bynum, Gasol, Nash, and Kobe? Really?
> 
> Give me a ****ing break.
> 
> And by the way, I certainly don't want to hear you complain about Howard's lack of offense or his shitty free throwing during the season. Enjoy that.


"All he does in dunk and can't make a free throw ?" 

What else could Shaq do well ? When did Wilt ever make any FT's ? 

He fits the mold.


----------



## KG-Kid21

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Wrong again.
> 
> Bynum is the better offensive player. No one disputes that.
> 
> Howard can stay in the shadows offensively because of Kobe, Nash, and Gasol.
> 
> But what happens in three years when all three of those guys are gone?


What do you mean what happens? How can you suggest that what happens will somehow be worse than what would happen if Bynum was still a Laker?

Dwight will get 20...get to the line 10+ times again..miss 5+ of those...rebound and play overrated Defense

What Bynum does in three years is not going to be significantly better than that, if he's better at all..


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Bynum didn't do jack shit these playoffs other than the triple double. He admitted to not playing hard himself. I'd rather have Dwight giving 100% effort and his shitty free throw shooting than Bynum's lackadaisical attitude.


----------



## KG-Kid21

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



LA68 said:


> "All he does in dunk and can't make a free throw ?"
> 
> What else could Shaq do well ? When did Wilt ever make any FT's ?
> 
> He fits the mold.



Woah woah woah woah

Shaq and Wilt could score at will...Dwight cannot

With that clarified, Dwight does still fit the mold, just much less so..


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



> Nets have emerged as No. 1 choice for Dwight Howard, multiple sources say. D12 is expected to ask Magic to trade him to NJ.
> Quote:
> NJ offering Brook Lopez & 2 1st rnd picks, as @ESPNSteinLine wrote last wk


The first page of this thread several months ago. Funny how things change. 

Isn't this offer a lot better than what the Magic ended up getting ? Those players the Magic received are not expiring deals and they can't amnesty them. 

I just don't see what they gained. And they're stuck with them for years to come setting back any rebuild they might want to do. 

I know the Lakers and Sixers got centers. Denver got an experienced coachable player who can run in their offense. What did the Magic get ? And was it worth waiting a year to get it ?


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



LA68 said:


> "All he does in dunk and can't make a free throw ?"
> 
> What else could Shaq do well ? When did Wilt ever make any FT's ?
> 
> He fits the mold.


Lakers got Shaq for NOTHING.

Lakers are giving up the 2nd best center in the league (and the league's best offensive center) for the best defensive center in the league. You don't see a difference between the two scenarios?

Lakers got Wilt for basically two journeyman and one good player (Archie Clark). Neither Bynum nor Howard could shine Wilt's shoes. Please.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



KG-Kid21 said:


> Dwight will get 20...get to the line 10+ times again..miss 5+ of those...rebound and play overrated Defense


:laugh: , talk about minimizing!

More like he will get to line 10+ times and miss 9+ of those. Let's get real here, the guy sucks something awful at the line.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Lakers got Shaq for NOTHING.
> 
> Lakers are giving up the 2nd best center in the league (and the league's best offensive center) for the best defensive center in the league. You don't see a difference between the two scenarios?
> 
> Lakers got Wilt for basically two journeyman and one good player (Archie Clark). Neither Bynum nor Howard could shine Wilt's shoes. Please.


Well since you are a Lakers fan, what would you have them do instead ? Who else could they realistically get to put them over the top ??

The Lakers always shoot for the best center at that time. Its not their fault that position is so weak today. Bynum wasn't gonna play for Brown so its best. 

Oh, now all of a sudden Howard likes L.A. Fancy that ?


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Lakers are the favorites in the West period, the end. Howard is not walking. I told you 6 weeks ago I saw him in LA. It was a foregone conclusion, he will be a Laker and sign an extension.


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*











Saw this on twitter. :laugh:


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Dwight's defense is better than Bynum's offense. Dwight's offense is better than Bynum's defense. End of story. Bynum is a good offensive player, but the Lakers are going to be a force with Dwight protecting the rim and owning the glass. This is coming from a Clipper fan.


----------



## TucsonClip

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



HKF said:


> Lakers are the favorites in the West period, the end. Howard is not walking. I told you 6 weeks ago I saw him in LA. It was a foregone conclusion, he will be a Laker and sign an extension.


That must have been one hell of a cup of joe he got in LA...

:cheers:


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I can tell you they've been treating him like a king out here in LA all summer. Once the trade goes official tomorrow, it will only intensify. He'll re-sign in LA unless something REEEALLY goes haywire.

This roster is unbelievable.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Wrong again.
> 
> Bynum is the better offensive player. No one disputes that.
> 
> Howard can stay in the shadows offensively because of Kobe, Nash, and Gasol.
> 
> But what happens in three years when all three of those guys are gone?


Then Kevin Love and John Wall take their place.


----------



## doctordrizzay

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



HKF said:


> Lakers are the favorites in the West period, the end. Howard is not walking. I told you 6 weeks ago I saw him in LA. It was a foregone conclusion, he will be a Laker and sign an extension.


OKC? I don't know how a team of Mid thirty year old's with no bench is going to contend with a proven OKC team who has jelled immensely the past 4 years. You think they are going to go away after tasting the finals?

Lakers don't get past Spurs, OKC or Clippers.


----------



## KG-Kid21

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



doctordrizzay said:


> OKC? I don't know how a team of Mid thirty year old's with no bench is going to contend with a proven OKC team who has jelled immensely the past 4 years. You think they are going to go away after tasting the finals?
> 
> Lakers don't get past Spurs, OKC or Clippers.



Wow.

I hate the Lakers more than the next guy but they're clearly the best team in the West right now...

OKC improves by way of their roster just getting a year wiser

LAL improves Bynum to Dwight and gets their best true point guard in 20 years..

That seems to more than make up for the difference in this past years WCF

As far as the Spurs/Clippers go..that's just laughably stupid and not worth anyone's time going into


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

If this trade somehow falls through, Dwight Howard will cease to exist to me.


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

The Nets will be above the apron so they will not be able to execute a S&T next summer.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I love the trade for Denver. Denver gets a superior player in Iguodala while shredding years off contracts(Iguodala has 2 years left whereas Harrington had 3 and Affalo had 4).

Philly will have to depend on whether Bynum signs an extension. They wanted to get rid of Iguodala anyway and getting Bynum back is a lot more than anyone expected.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Now rumors are that the Lakers are getting chris duhon and the immortal Earl Clark. 

By the way Ron, this deal is worse than when they lost shaq. They just took back two huge contracts that last for four years.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



> daldridgetnt Pick details 4 Orlando in Howard trade: future first from Philly (w/protection), lower of Denver's 2 firsts (NY) in '14, Lakers' 2017 first.


...


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Ron said:


> Really?
> 
> You think the Lakers were going to get "bounced" in the second round this season with Bynum, Gasol, Nash, and Kobe? Really?
> 
> Give me a ****ing break.
> 
> And by the way, I certainly don't want to hear you complain about Howard's lack of offense or his shitty free throwing during the season. Enjoy that.


I think Howard likes money too much to walk. Same with Bynum had he stayed. And before you quote twitter or call me delusional, remember you've been wrong about almost everything Dwightmare. Including when you said there was no chance the Lakers trade for him.


----------



## Sliccat

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

I don't understand the Magic's angle in this. Unless Bynum walks from Philly and they bottom out, this is worse than Houston's offer. They're taking on more much money and getting less talent than they would have from Houston.

And OKC is pretty much the league's only hope against this team. They're the only team in the league who can guard all four of these guys one on one. Everybody else is ****ed. Can't wait to watch these guys in action.


----------



## Dee-Zy

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Dwight is dumb, as much as I hate the Lakers to be able to pull off superstars like this AGAIN, Dwight is dumb to leave if he is already in LA.

**** Shaq. Kobe is on the tail end of his career and he has whatever is left of Nash to make him look good. By going to Lakers, he IS the man already.


----------



## roux

Knicks4life said:


> ...


At least they got a 2017 first out of the deal, by then kevin durant and blake griffin will be on the lakers and that pick will still gold no value


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

End of the day this is hilarious and ironic on more than one level...Dwight wanted to be his own man by going to Brooklyn but won't get that chance because he couldn't be his own man and make his own decisions. 

Shaq getting his ammo ready for TNT. And him being a douche or not a lot of it's going to be true


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

If Mike Brown is still the coach, and they play the Thunder they will lose again, but in a close series.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



KG-Kid21 said:


> I feel like Shaq is plotting some Tanya Harding shit as we speak...there's not a soul in the world who wants this thing to go south in LAL more than the Big Fella


The reigning WC champion has Howard's Batman as their starting C (Howard's gone from Superman to The Joker these days, and the Cesar Romero Joker at that). And given Perkins' predilection towards goonery I'm not sure Shaq has to do anything but speak a few words of praise every time Perkins takes a cheap shot at Howard (which will happen early and often even without it).


----------



## eddymac

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

So the Magic vehemently refuse the Nets deal but Al Harrington, Affalo and a few bums is so much better smh at the Magic.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



eddymac said:


> So the Magic vehemently refuse the Nets deal but Al Harrington, Affalo and a few bums is so much better smh at the Magic.


those also turned down Houston offer of pretty much every young player they have and every draft they have for the next 5 years. And Houston was willing to take back all of their bad contracts

They must really like Affalo


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Good thing Houston waived Scola... right?

Are the Magic gunning for Noel in the 2013 draft, or will they rally to win 30 games and ruin that? I like a Afflalo, but on a winning team.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



jokeaward said:


> Good thing Houston waived Scola... right?
> 
> Are the Magic gunning for Noel in the 2013 draft, or will they rally to win 30 games and ruin that? I like a Afflalo, but on a winning team.


Well i guess the good thing to come out of waiving Scola is their young guys get more playing time and they will have a pretty good draft pick next year


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*

Oh the perks of being a Lakers fan.

On the real note though, if this trade goes through there are only two teams in the league that have a real chance: OKC and Miaim. That's it.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



> WojYahooNBA Trade call is done with the league office. Dwight Howard has joined the Los Angeles Lakers.


...


----------



## Basel

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*

:yay:


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*

Best. Day. Ever.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



doctordrizzay said:


> OKC? *I don't know how a team of Mid thirty year old's with no bench *is going to contend with a proven OKC team who has jelled immensely the past 4 years. *You think they are going to go away after tasting the finals?*
> *
> Lakers don't get past Spurs, OKC or Clippers.*


First bolded point: Jaminson, Barnes and Hill? Those are some solid players to have come off the bench for a team like this.
Second bolded point: The Cavs did, so why do you think the Thunder might not do the same??
Third bolded point: Please, be honest, are you a troll?


----------



## Basel

Actually Barnes isn't on the roster right now, not that I'm aware of, anyway. He's a free agent right?


----------



## Job

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*

I think the Lakers are a strong contender. Nash is one of the few point guards who can facilitate this ego driven team to success.


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*

Pretty sure Barnes played himself out of the league. Be surprised if anyone signs him.


----------



## ATLien

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*

We are all Lakers fans now. Anybody, but Miami.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*

The hauls for Deron, Melo, and CP3 were all significantly better than this.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*

I am pretty sure that I could go find a crackhead on Lee Street who could have negotiated a better trade for Orlando than this one.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*



Basel said:


> Actually Barnes isn't on the roster right now, not that I'm aware of, anyway. He's a free agent right?


Oh really? Okay then forget that part...


----------



## Basel

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*



MojoPin said:


> Pretty sure Barnes played himself out of the league. Be surprised if anyone signs him.


Someone will sign him.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Brandon Real said:


> Saw this on twitter. :laugh:


:lol: :laugh:


----------



## kbdullah

I think the Mitch thing has been overplayed...Lakers gave up Bynum, a first, and took on a contract. That's about what was expected the whole time. 

Pau was rumored for all of four hours to be part of the deal and now that he's back to being not in it, that has skewed everyone's perspective of the deal. Lakers put in Bynum, pick, and took on Duhon for Dwight. Fair enough. 

Denver trades Afflalo and a first for Iggy. Fair enough. 

But Philly trades Iguodala, Harkless, and a protected first for Bynum? That's a rental-type offer, and in the end Orlando gets screwed.


----------



## Pioneer10

I mean the Lakers gave up a quality player to improve but man Orlando: WTF? Orlando still got fleeced even though the Lakers gave up good value to improve.

No lottery pick, no young star (Afflalo is a peaked out player and definitely not a star), and not getting rid of Hedo's deal: epic fail.


----------



## l0st1

Not sure at all why Orlando took this over Houston or even Brooklyns offer. Epic Fail indeed.


----------



## Diable

The Nets never made a practical offer. All the stuff that was talked about was mostly fantasy and never in the realm of possibility. Orlando never wanted to give Lopez a freaking max contract and I can't blame them for that. In Brooklyn it's not as bad because they aren't rebuilding, but you can't start out with Lopez as your best player making a max contract.


----------



## Adam

Guess Idunkonyou is never coming back. Magic "dynasty" officially over.

Three shitty first round picks for a top 10 player. I never understand what the **** the Magic are doing.


----------



## Basel

Lakers just signed Jodie Meeks, too.


----------



## Brandon Real

Basel said:


> Lakers just signed Jodie Meeks, too.


for vet min.


I'm shocked they've done all of this and still have the MMLE to use.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

MitchSlapping mother****ers all day! Lol


----------



## Luke

Wait, we got Meeks too?! This offseason has been incredible.


----------



## Hyperion

On a maturity level, these lakers went from Real World to Harvard Row Team in two trades. Now to trade metta artest....


----------



## Hibachi!

This is all bullshit. That is all.


----------



## RollWithEm

Meeks, too? Seriously?


----------



## Brandon Real

Dude is smiling like a cheshire cat in the presser.


----------



## R-Star

Brandon Real said:


> Dude is smiling like a cheshire cat in the presser.


He always is. 

He's a ****ing scum bag.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

Steve Nash / Steve Blake
Kobe Bryant / Jodie Meeks
Metta World Peace
Pau Gasol / Antawn Jamison
Dwight Howard / Jordan Hill

This team is 9-deep and they're really stinking good. If a guy like Andrew Goudelock, Devin Ebanks or Earl Clark can provide meaningful minutes then it's only an added bonus.

Are these ESPN guys on crack? This team is clearly the favorite over OKC right now.


----------



## Adam

It just confuses me that Portland can get a high lottery pick for Gerald Wallace and Orlando can't even get a lottery pick for Dwight Howard?

I'm telling you right now, if even one of these mid to late first round picks even sticks in the league it will be something and not one will be an all-star. There's not going to be any good free agent signing and there's no reason to be excited about the future. If I'm an Orlando fan I'm angstier than a 14 year old right now because this shit stinks.


----------



## E.H. Munro

There are no Orlando fans left. Unless they get lucky in the lottery multiple years in a row the franchise will be gone within a year or two of DeVos' death.


----------



## hobojoe

E.H. Munro said:


> There are no Orlando fans left. Unless they get lucky in the lottery multiple years in a row the franchise will be gone within a year or two of DeVos' death.


I'll still be here. It's not a good trade on a few levels, but it's not crippling them from doing what they want to do. I wish they had dumped Hedo, I wish they hadn't taken Al Harrington's contract and I wish they had at least managed to get Evan Turner. They're going to be very bad for a few years, they're going to acquire a lot of draft picks and young players over the next few years, now it's just a matter of drafting well, developing talent and getting free agents once they're under the cap (which has never been a problem for the Magic). The next couple years are going to be rough, but anything is better than what we went through last year.


----------



## R-Star

hobojoe said:


> I'll still be here. It's not a good trade on a few levels, but it's not crippling them from doing what they want to do. I wish they had dumped Hedo, I wish they hadn't taken Al Harrington's contract and I wish they had at least managed to get Evan Turner. They're going to be very bad for a few years, they're going to acquire a lot of draft picks and young players over the next few years, now it's just a matter of drafting well, developing talent and getting free agents once they're under the cap (which has never been a problem for the Magic). The next couple years are going to be rough, but anything is better than what we went through last year.


Good to see a real fan.

Tough it out buddy.


----------



## MemphisX

hobojoe said:


> I'll still be here. It's not a good trade on a few levels, but it's not crippling them from doing what they want to do. I wish they had dumped Hedo, I wish they hadn't taken Al Harrington's contract and I wish they had at least managed to get Evan Turner. They're going to be very bad for a few years, they're going to acquire a lot of draft picks and young players over the next few years, now it's just a matter of drafting well, developing talent and getting free agents once they're under the cap (which has never been a problem for the Magic). The next couple years are going to be rough, but anything is better than what we went through last year.



Seriously? How much more luck can they have and squander? They have had the or one of the best centers in the league 12 of the past 20 seasons and have 2 finals appearances and bullshit to show for it. This is not even counting having T-Mac in some of those 8 they were without the best center.

The Magic have to rate as one of the worse organizations in the NBA just for pissing away so much top shelf talent.


----------



## R-Star

MemphisX said:


> Seriously? How much more luck can they have and squander? They have had the or one of the best centers in the league 12 of the past 20 seasons and have 2 finals appearances and bullshit to show for it. This is not even counting having T-Mac in some of those 8 they were without the best center.
> 
> The Magic have to rate as one of the worse organizations in the NBA just for pissing away so much top shelf talent.


How many different teams won the title in that time frame?


----------



## Blue

If you're gonna rebuild it's better to bottom out than be average. We have the pieces in place to bottom out. You dont want to get stuck in a situation like Detroit.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Feels good to have the target on our back again. Wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## 29380




----------



## R-Star

I'm going to have such a good laugh if he's not anywhere close to 100% after this surgery.


----------



## LA68

Adam said:


> It just confuses me that Portland can get a high lottery pick for Gerald Wallace and Orlando can't even get a lottery pick for Dwight Howard?
> 
> I'm telling you right now, if even one of these mid to late first round picks even sticks in the league it will be something and not one will be an all-star. There's not going to be any good free agent signing and there's no reason to be excited about the future. If I'm an Orlando fan I'm angstier than a 14 year old right now because this shit stinks.


They were offered multiple picks and Otis turned them down. Then this new guy got in and it was all drying up. So he panicked. 

Orlando had options, they just didn't have the balls.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Blue said:


> If you're gonna rebuild it's better to bottom out than be average. We have the pieces in place to bottom out. You dont want to get stuck in a situation like Detroit.


I hate to break it to you buddy, but you're in a situation like Detroit's. Only without the bright young talent. Or the possibility of getting better before the end of the decade.


----------



## hobojoe

MemphisX said:


> Seriously? How much more luck can they have and squander? They have had the or one of the best centers in the league 12 of the past 20 seasons and have 2 finals appearances and bullshit to show for it. This is not even counting having T-Mac in some of those 8 they were without the best center.
> 
> The Magic have to rate as one of the worse organizations in the NBA just for pissing away so much top shelf talent.


I don't disagree with any of that. All I'm saying is for a historically poorly run franchise, they've managed to acquire top shelf talent both through the top of the draft and free agency (guys will always like Florida weather and not paying state income taxes). There's obviously no guarantee they get the number one overall pick in the next few years like they've been fortunate enough to get before, but they're going to be in a position to be picking high and then have cap space after they've accumulated some top picks. 

In the meantime, we find out if we have a long term answer at head coach in Jacque Vaughn and if guys like Harkless, Nicholson and Vucevic can fulfill their potential and be part of the future. 

I mean I'm not happy about it and I outlined in my last post what I would've liked to have see in the trade, but what were the alternatives? Get Gasol, lose in the first round and pick in the late teens for the next 5 years? It's easy to sit at a computer (and I'm mot speaking to you in particular here MemphisX) and pretend that all these other rumored deals were actual offers and the Magic just turned them down. The Houston offer (if there ever actually was one) obviously wasn't what it was rumored to be or it would've been accepted. And I for one and giddy right now compared to what I would be if we were locked into paying Brook freakin Lopez the max for the next four years. 




Sent from my iPad using VS Free


----------



## Ballscientist

This is the worst trade in the nba history!

D Howard is treated as the second best player in the nba

Magic basically trade him for nothing.

Question for Magic fans

1. Which player the Magic get will be top 3 player in the nba? 

Answer: None of them will be an average bench.

2. Which player will lead the Magic to the Glory?
Answer: The player Magic get will lead them to the bottom team.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

NOW ORLANDO FANS WILL FEEL THE PAIN WE WENT THROUGH WHEN LEBRON LEFT MWAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## XxIrvingxX

MemphisX said:


> Seriously? How much more luck can they have and squander? They have had the or one of the best centers in the league 12 of the past 20 seasons and have 2 finals appearances and bullshit to show for it. This is not even counting having T-Mac in some of those 8 they were without the best center.
> *
> The Magic have to rate as one of the worse organizations in the NBA just for pissing away so much top shelf talent.*


Gotta disagree with you on that point. The Magic didn't piss away any talent, they simply didn't want to stay in Orlando.


----------



## Dissonance

They made constant bad decision after bad decision with trades/signings to bloated contracts, vets. If Cleveland or Orlando had done a job like OKC did - you think they'd leave those places?


----------



## Hyperion

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Feels good to have the target on our back again. Wouldn't have it any other way.


You poor underdogs.


----------



## R-Star

Dissonance said:


> They made constant bad decision after bad decision with trades/signings to bloated contracts, vets. If Cleveland or Orlando had done a job like OKC did - you think they'd leave those places?


OKC had multiple high lotto picks. Everyone keeps pointing to them as some well planned out super team. They stunk for years, got KD and still stunk, got good draft picks, and while they admittedly drafted very well with those, its a hell of a lot easier to draft well with a high lotto pick than it is with a mid to late first rounder. 


This day and age of "Win a title for your superstar or you're a bad GM!" disgusts me.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Dissonance said:


> They made constant bad decision after bad decision with trades/signings to bloated contracts, vets. If Cleveland or Orlando had done a job like OKC did - you think they'd leave those places?


Difference was OKC sucked after getting Durant. They were god-awful, and in Westbroks rookie year were awful. Cleveland quickly improved with Lebron and Orlando was already a playoff team his rookie year.


----------



## e-monk

R-Star said:


> OKC had multiple high lotto picks. Everyone keeps pointing to them as some well planned out super team. They stunk for years, got KD and still stunk, got good draft picks, and while they admittedly drafted very well with those, its a hell of a lot easier to draft well with a high lotto pick than it is with a mid to late first rounder.
> 
> 
> This day and age of "Win a title for your superstar or you're a bad GM!" disgusts me.


+1 - OKC gets too much credit for their 'model'


----------



## rocketeer

R-Star said:


> OKC had multiple high lotto picks. Everyone keeps pointing to them as some well planned out super team. They stunk for years, got KD and still stunk, got good draft picks, and while they admittedly drafted very well with those, its a hell of a lot easier to draft well with a high lotto pick than it is with a mid to late first rounder.
> 
> 
> This day and age of "Win a title for your superstar or you're a bad GM!" disgusts me.


and no one seems to ever take into account the luck involved. 

yeah, the thunder have done well and their picks worked out. but the idea that other teams can copy their model, get lucky enough to not get jumped in the draft too much, have the right players actually be available at their picks, not have to deal with injuries, etc is stupid.

plenty of teams bottom out and then never become anything relevant again for a long time.


----------



## brvheart

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers*



ATLien said:


> We are all Lakers fans now. Anybody, but Miami.


It's going to be so awesome next summer when the Heat win in 5 again.


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> OKC had multiple high lotto picks. Everyone keeps pointing to them as some well planned out super team. They stunk for years, got KD and still stunk, got good draft picks, and while they admittedly drafted very well with those, its a hell of a lot easier to draft well with a high lotto pick than it is with a mid to late first rounder.
> 
> 
> This day and age of "Win a title for your superstar or you're a bad GM!" disgusts me.


they can at least get ONE all star for their superstar. Instead they trot out the bobcats and a superstar expecting him to lead the team to a championship all the while his herculean efforts are merely leading to a late first round pick and a few overpaid FA signings that everyone laughs at and says "glad we didn't sign that guy even for half that!" 

I think it's put a decent team around your superstar or get fired because it's pretty easy to put a contending team around James, Howard, Rose and Durant. Well, Rose is done, but he was really good.


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> they can at least get ONE all star for their superstar. Instead they trot out the bobcats and a superstar expecting him to lead the team to a championship all the while his herculean efforts are merely leading to a late first round pick and a few overpaid FA signings that everyone laughs at and says "glad we didn't sign that guy even for half that!"
> 
> I think it's put a decent team around your superstar or get fired because it's pretty easy to put a contending team around James, Howard, Rose and Durant. Well, Rose is done, but he was really good.


Contending teams were put around James and Howard.


----------



## rayz789

Diable said:


> The Nets never made a practical offer. All the stuff that was talked about was mostly fantasy and never in the realm of possibility. Orlando never wanted to give Lopez a freaking max contract and I can't blame them for that. In Brooklyn it's not as bad because they aren't rebuilding, but you can't start out with Lopez as your best player making a max contract.


Fantasy? Do u know how many times the nets was so closed of getting howard? My goodness. The first off the nets give the magic is the best offer in which the nets would give up lopez, humpries, future allstar brooks and 3 or 4 guarantee first round draft picks. <<<How in the world did the magic refuse that offer? Lopez max contract wouldnt be close to howard max contract plus lopez is still really young and one of the best low post center even though he's not a very good rebounder. Humpries despite his personal problems, always plays hard and mostly gets double double. And the magic would guarantee to be in the 3 or 4 1st round picks And how can the magic ignore brooks? Its stupid pure and simple. This deal the magic got is easily the worse deal i have ever seen. The nuggets got a very good deal with adding andri in which they barely give up anything important in return. To add andri, galo, lawson, mcgee, miller and the rookie. <<They will be improved big time. The sixers i think improved of adding bynum. I think bynum is ready to be the number 1 guy that will get soo many touches. The sixers roster with bynum i think also improved. The lakers of course won the deal and its mostly a guarantee they will win it all. All of this is the magic new gm fault for being a pure dumb a$$.


----------



## Dissonance

lol everyone assuming and piling on something I wasn't even talking about. My point was if they had put pieces or the right talent around em they wouldn't want to leave regardless of how they got to that position. Nothing to do with having a top pick every yr or exactly do what OKC did. I threw in OKC cuz KD was only one who stuck around. You don't have to suck for 3-5 yrs straight with top picks to make better decisions with trades, signing FAs, or even draft better. You can also do that any draft spot or not trade picks like candy. Luck is involved, no shit. Talent evaluation is also key not just in drafting either. When they were in too deep, needed to do something, they played hot potato swapping bad deals with other bad ones.


----------



## British_Baller

So let's just skip the regular season and roll straight on to the inevitable Heat/Lakers final, and what a final it will be!


----------



## ChrisWoj

rayz789 said:


> Fantasy? Do u know how many times the nets was so closed of getting howard? My goodness. The first off the nets give the magic is the best offer in which the nets would give up lopez, humpries, future allstar brooks and 3 or 4 guarantee first round draft picks. <<<How in the world did the magic refuse that offer? Lopez max contract wouldnt be close to howard max contract plus lopez is still really young and one of the best low post center even though he's not a very good rebounder. Humpries despite his personal problems, always plays hard and mostly gets double double. And the magic would guarantee to be in the 3 or 4 1st round picks And how can the magic ignore brooks? Its stupid pure and simple. This deal the magic got is easily the worse deal i have ever seen. The nuggets got a very good deal with adding andri in which they barely give up anything important in return. To add andri, galo, lawson, mcgee, miller and the rookie. <<They will be improved big time. The sixers i think improved of adding bynum. I think bynum is ready to be the number 1 guy that will get soo many touches. The sixers roster with bynum i think also improved. The lakers of course won the deal and its mostly a guarantee they will win it all. All of this is the magic new gm fault for being a pure dumb a$$.


Their GM is apparently smarter than you.. you're willing to throw damn near the MAX at Brook Lopez... for a team that you admit will be in the top 3-4 picks in the first round!? Economically... what a dumb idea.


----------



## Adam

British_Baller said:


> So let's just skip the regular season and roll straight on to the inevitable Heat/Lakers final, and what a final it will be!


A lot of people keep saying this and I don't know why. Perkins is still on OKC. He's the Dwight Howard defensive specialist, his only redeeming skill really. I'm gonna laugh if Dwight's Stepford grinning ass gets embarrassed in the playoffs. You can't be a "great big" and be losing to Atlanta in 6 games in the first round. Dude's a fraud.


----------



## R-Star

Adam said:


> A lot of people keep saying this and I don't know why. Perkins is still on OKC. He's the Dwight Howard defensive specialist, his only redeeming skill really. I'm gonna laugh if Dwight's Stepford grinning ass gets embarrassed in the playoffs. You can't be a "great big" and be losing to Atlanta in 6 games in the first round. Dude's a fraud.


I don't really disagree, but now he's a fraud with Kobe, Nash and Gasol. 

Even if somehow he ends up being the 4th best player out of that mix when the playoffs roll around, its still scary as ****.


----------



## R-Star

Dissonance said:


> lol everyone assuming and piling on something I wasn't even talking about. My point was if they had put pieces or the right talent around em they wouldn't want to leave regardless of how they got to that position. Nothing to do with having a top pick every yr or exactly do what OKC did. I threw in OKC cuz KD was only one who stuck around. You don't have to suck for 3-5 yrs straight with top picks to make better decisions with trades, signing FAs, or even draft better. You can also do that any draft spot or not trade picks like candy. Luck is involved, no shit. Talent evaluation is also key not just in drafting either. When they were in too deep, needed to do something, they played hot potato swapping bad deals with other bad ones..


People always say this shit, but its just not true. 

Can the same be said about the 2000's Nets who couldn't win with Kidd? The Suns with Nash? The list goes on. 

So you go from a shitty team who last year was a lotto team with hardly any talent on the roster, to being a playoff team the next season. Ok, time to put some talent around your superstar. Lets get building. Don't plan on doing it with draft picks though, because you're picking at 20+. Oh well, no worries. Lets just sign some star players to go with your superstar. Oh wait, you're Cleveland or Orlando. Pause for a minute, go ahead and list me the top 10 free agents that signed with a small market team over the last 10 years. Not coming up with anything? Oh, well no worries there, lets trade some of our talent for a star player then. Oh, wait, there's no talent on this team who were a cellar dweller before landing their Lebron/Dwight caliber player. 


See, the thing you guys need to realize is you're living in a ****ing fantasy land. Where building a solid team with solid players on respectable contracts is as easy as saying "What, is that GM an idiot?". Where drafting 24th overall should net a starting caliber player and if it doesn't, your team sucks at drafting. 

In reality the reason guys like Carlos Boozer get overpaid, and the reason over the hill "used to be" stars get traded for is because all you guys complain all the time about how "something needs to be done" or the star player will bolt like Bron and Dwight both have. And once it is done, then you all call for the GM's head because now you're paying a max contract for a 30 something Vince Carter who just isn't that good anymore. 



I'm sure I'm not the only guy around here who realizes everything I wrote is common sense.


----------



## Jace

Rose is...done?



R-Star said:


> OKC had multiple high lotto picks. Everyone keeps pointing to them as some well planned out super team. They stunk for years, got KD and still stunk, got good draft picks, and while they admittedly drafted very well with those, its a hell of a lot easier to draft well with a high lotto pick than it is with a mid to late first rounder.


Been saying this for while. Presti's claim to fame has been choosing Westbrook over Gordon/Bayless or whomever else people were outraged they didn't pick. Other than that they've reaped the benefits of being awful.


----------



## Luke

I'll preface this statement by saying that I truly believe that we have the best Heat fans on the internet, when looking at all of them in total.

But I do love the scared ones. 

Here comes the twit pic!


----------



## BenDengGo

Via Ken Berger/CBS Sports (via Twitter) said:


> Dwight Howard will be on a new, presumably maximum contract for the 13-14 season.
> 
> The Lakers already have financial commitments to Kobe Bryant at $30.45 million, Pau Gasol at $19.285 million, Steve Nash at $9.3 million, Steve Blake at $4 million and Jordan Hill at $3.563 million.
> 
> When including Howard's expected maximum contract, *the Lakers will have approximately $92 million committed to just six players.*
> 
> With a tax line at $75 million, the Lakers would owe $34.3 million for just those six players.


daaamn


----------



## Porn Player

I'm just excited to see these teams get together and play. 

I wish the Raptors had snuck in and got Iggy/Harkless somehow, but alas, we did not have Bynum to give up.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

R-Star said:


> People always say this shit, but its just not true.
> 
> Can the same be said about the 2000's Nets who couldn't win with Kidd? The Suns with Nash? The list goes on.
> 
> So you go from a shitty team who last year was a lotto team with hardly any talent on the roster, to being a playoff team the next season. Ok, time to put some talent around your superstar. Lets get building. Don't plan on doing it with draft picks though, because you're picking at 20+. Oh well, no worries. Lets just sign some star players to go with your superstar. Oh wait, you're Cleveland or Orlando. Pause for a minute, go ahead and list me the top 10 free agents that signed with a small market team over the last 10 years. Not coming up with anything? Oh, well no worries there, lets trade some of our talent for a star player then. Oh, wait, there's no talent on this team who were a cellar dweller before landing their Lebron/Dwight caliber player.
> 
> *
> See, the thing you guys need to realize is you're living in a ****ing fantasy land. Where building a solid team with solid players on respectable contracts is as easy as saying "What, is that GM an idiot?". Where drafting 24th overall should net a starting caliber player and if it doesn't, your team sucks at drafting. *
> 
> In reality the reason guys like Carlos Boozer get overpaid, and the reason over the hill "used to be" stars get traded for is because all you guys complain all the time about how "something needs to be done" or the star player will bolt like Bron and Dwight both have. And once it is done, then you all call for the GM's head because now you're paying a max contract for a 30 something Vince Carter who just isn't that good anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure I'm not the only guy around here who realizes everything I wrote is common sense.


Well Cleveland did get incredibly lucky the year before they got Lebron James when they got Carlos Boozer in the second round. Guy averaged a double double in his second year, the year he played alongside Lebron. Unfortunately he just ended up ditching us when we decided not to keep him longer and just tried to resign him altogether (a reason which is why many cavs fans hate Boozer to this day)


----------



## e-monk

Ferry mishandled the boozer thing though


----------



## E.H. Munro

Paxton. Ferry was hired to be an _improvement_.


----------



## e-monk

E.H. Munro said:


> Paxton. Ferry was hired to be an _improvement_.


sorry, you're right

but still the Cavs mishandled the boozer situation (read: trusted him)


----------



## Hibachi!

BenDengGo said:


> daaamn


That's INSANE. Which means when they round out their roster it will be upwards of 110+ million. Far and away above anyone in the league.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Jamel Irief said:


> Difference was OKC sucked after getting Durant. They were god-awful, and in Westbroks rookie year were awful. Cleveland quickly improved with Lebron and Orlando was already a playoff team his rookie year.


In fairness Paxson did completely blow a top 10 pick the year after LeBron when there were some very highly ranked high schoolers sitting on the board.


----------



## e-monk

Hibachi! said:


> That's INSANE. Which means when they round out their roster it will be upwards of 110+ million. Far and away above anyone in the league.


for one year - in 14/15 (right now) they've Nash's 9m on the books and that is all (add Howard's presumed max contract and they're still south of the cap)


----------



## E.H. Munro

e-monk said:


> sorry, you're right
> 
> but still the Cavs mishandled the boozer situation (read: trusted him)


Oh, I agree, they were probably feeling good about firing Paxson never imagining that the guy coming in would be even worse.


----------



## e-monk

E.H. Munro said:


> In fairness Paxson did completely blow a top 10 pick the year after LeBron when there were some very highly ranked high schoolers sitting on the board.


Josh Smith playing next to Lebron could have been pretty interesting


----------



## Hibachi!

I can't help but think about the complete and utter lack of parity in the NBA. There has to be a reason for it beyond shitty GM's.


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> People always say this shit, but its just not true.
> 
> Can the same be said about the 2000's Nets who couldn't win with Kidd? The Suns with Nash? The list goes on.
> 
> So you go from a shitty team who last year was a lotto team with hardly any talent on the roster, to being a playoff team the next season. Ok, time to put some talent around your superstar. Lets get building. Don't plan on doing it with draft picks though, because you're picking at 20+. Oh well, no worries. Lets just sign some star players to go with your superstar. Oh wait, you're Cleveland or Orlando. Pause for a minute, go ahead and list me the top 10 free agents that signed with a small market team over the last 10 years. Not coming up with anything? Oh, well no worries there, lets trade some of our talent for a star player then. Oh, wait, there's no talent on this team who were a cellar dweller before landing their Lebron/Dwight caliber player.
> 
> 
> See, the thing you guys need to realize is you're living in a ****ing fantasy land. Where building a solid team with solid players on respectable contracts is as easy as saying "What, is that GM an idiot?". Where drafting 24th overall should net a starting caliber player and if it doesn't, your team sucks at drafting.
> 
> In reality the reason guys like Carlos Boozer get overpaid, and the reason over the hill "used to be" stars get traded for is because all you guys complain all the time about how "something needs to be done" or the star player will bolt like Bron and Dwight both have. And once it is done, then you all call for the GM's head because now you're paying a max contract for a 30 something Vince Carter who just isn't that good anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure I'm not the only guy around here who realizes everything I wrote is common sense.


You're missing the part where these teams expect to get an all star for bench players. Cleveland refused to trade HICKSON for Amare. Don't come in here claiming this boo hoo sob story that nobody wants to play with them. They don't outbid for FAs and they over value their players. There are maybe 5-10 good gms and the rest are merely former basketball players who "know the game". More proof of Orlando's ineptitude? How about one Jacque Vaughn as head coach.


----------



## e-monk

Hibachi! said:


> I can't help but think about the complete and utter lack of parity in the NBA. There has to be a reason for it beyond shitty GM's.


markets matter as does quality of ownership - organizations as a whole matter


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Hyperion said:


> You're missing the part where these teams expect to get an all star for bench players. *Cleveland refused to trade HICKSON for Amare.* Don't come in here claiming this boo hoo sob story that nobody wants to play with them. They don't outbid for FAs and they over value their players. There are maybe 5-10 good gms and the rest are merely former basketball players who "know the game". More proof of Orlando's ineptitude? How about one Jacque Vaughn as head coach.


...what??! The cavs WERE willing to trade Hickson, but it was a well known fact that they didn't really want to. The reason the trade never happened was because the Suns backed out of it. You honestly think they were going to give up Amare for Hickson and Z and some shitty draft picks?? Come on now.


----------



## Dissonance

Yeah, Suns didn't think Hickson was enough.

They wanted a vet PF at the time and tried to get Boozer from Utah in a 3 way. That fell apart they backed out. Kerr/Sarver made it clear they wanted to make the playoffs. Acquiring Hickson and that garbage wasn't gonna to attain that. Kerr even said after the fact when he left Hickson wasn't enough.


----------



## BenDengGo

E.H. Munro said:


> In fairness Paxson did completely blow a top 10 pick the year after LeBron when there were some very highly ranked high schoolers sitting on the board.


throw in the larry hughes signing as lebrons wing buddy at the 2 spot as well.

when they should have gone after joe johnson or ray allen at that time.


----------



## Hibachi!

e-monk said:


> markets matter as does quality of ownership - organizations as a whole matter


Aye. The Lakers can attract the best because:

1. They make far and away the most money
2. They have one of the best markets (besides NYC)
3. They're one of the best basketball organizations (something NYC lacks)

What's sad is the state of the NBA in terms of parity. They're the only major sport where for the last 25+ years it's almost been the same mega teams like clockwork.


----------



## E.H. Munro

BenDengGo said:


> throw in the larry hughes signing as lebrons wing buddy at the 2 spot as well.
> 
> when they should have gone after joe johnson or ray allen at that time.


Oh, I agree. But, think about it, in 2005 the Suns sold their mid lottery pick, they just asked for an unprotected #1 and $3 million. The Cavs could have walked out of the 2005 draft with Iguodala and Josh Smith and then run opponents into a state of exhaustion.


----------



## NOHornets

E.H. Munro said:


> In fairness Paxson did completely blow a top 10 pick the year after LeBron when there were some very highly ranked high schoolers sitting on the board.


Luke Jackson says "Hi"


----------



## Luke

One of these days a Luke will come around that isn't awful.


----------



## e-monk

Luke said:


> One of these days a Luke will come around that isn't awful.


one of Mo Lucas's nicknames was Luke and he was pretty great


----------



## 77AJ

Orlando should of waited until the trade deadline this up coming season on moving Howard. That way more teams would act a lot more desperate, and thus sweeten the deal for the Magic. But considering what' done is done now. The magic got a lousy deal for Howard. I can careless about those first round draft picks, especially when you consider that the Sixers, Nuggets, and Lakers are all going to be good playoff teams. 

Also we get to see Dwight Howard follow in the foot steps of Shaq. And I believe Howard will eventually self implode in LA. The dude is really entrenched into banging all the local porn stars, and getting silly on the streets with booze. The stories I have been informed about regarding Howard has shown me exactly what kind of man he is, and he's a self righteous douche bag. Hopefully the Thunder roll the LA lakers the playoffs. And Howard fouls out every single game.


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> You're missing the part where these teams expect to get an all star for bench players. Cleveland refused to trade HICKSON for Amare. Don't come in here claiming this boo hoo sob story that nobody wants to play with them. They don't outbid for FAs and they over value their players. There are maybe 5-10 good gms and the rest are merely former basketball players who "know the game". More proof of Orlando's ineptitude? How about one Jacque Vaughn as head coach.


Classic arm chair quarterback syndrome. 

There's 5 to 10 good GM's in the league? The rest suck?

Yea. Less than 1 3rd of NBA GM's are competent at their jobs. 


And you've given one example. Not to mention, according to most people on here Amara sucks now anyways. He would have somehow magically got Lebron to stay with the Cavs?

I asked for examples of big name FA's going to a small market team. You gave none. 


Bottom line is, my original post is spot on. If you want to live in some fantasy land where owners of 100+ million dollar franchises knowingly sign and keep inept GM's, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe they should start looking on the message boards for guys like you to run their teams.


----------



## c_dog

i don't get this trade for the magic. yeah they got some first round picks but they could have gotten some decent players back. andrew bynum swap would have been better than losing howard for minimal assets, but maybe that's just me. sixers and nuggets end up bigger winners than magic, though magic were by far giving up the most valueable player.


----------



## ATLien

Orlando could have had Horford and Teague on reasonable contracts, and they still would have been bad enough to collect lottery picks for a couple years while not adding toxic salaries but their GM didn't want to trade Howard within the division.


----------



## e-monk

do we know that? do we really know what offers that were made? how much was conjecture (I never heard an atlanta package before making a suggestion similar to the one above on these forums - in other words the only time I ever read about an offer like that I had typed it myself) and how much agent bs?


----------



## R-Star

e-monk said:


> do we know that? do we really know what offers that were made? how much was conjecture (I never heard an atlanta package before making a suggestion similar to the one above on these forums - in other words the only time I ever read about an offer like that I had typed it myself) and how much agent bs?


There were tons of better deals on the table. Atlanta, Houston, and others. Orlando just decided to say _"Hey, lets take the worst deal out there because I'm a dumb GM and that's what I do."_

I mean, it says so on the internet, so it must be true right?


----------



## ATLien

> “We had discussions with Orlando about Dwight Howard, but they were apprehensive to trade him within the division.” - Danny Ferry


http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-b...itch-for-dwight-howard-but-was-stopped-short/

We don't know the details, but given the crap offer they got back from L.A. to not engage because of division is dumb.


----------



## ChrisWoj

Luke said:


> One of these days a Luke will come around that isn't awful.


Ridnour is far from awful. Maybe even a starter on a very good playoff team where he only has to be the 5th best starter.


----------



## rynobot

Luke Skywalker was pretty good, blew up the Death Star at age 18. That's not good anymore?


----------



## Ronnie

Congrats to the NBA. They just became a 3 team league and if you aren't a Thunder, Lakers or Heat fan, there is truly no point in watching it any more.


----------



## Luke

I guess Orlando wants to bottom out completely and try to rebuild through the draft. The deal definitely sucks for them, but bringing in Horford/Teague to win 31 games a year wasn't going to really help them long term anyways.


----------



## RollWithEm

Says the apparent 80's 49er fan.


----------



## Luke

e-monk said:


> one of Mo Lucas's nicknames was Luke and he was pretty great


Thanks for making me feel better.


----------



## Ronnie

RollWithEm said:


> Says the apparent 80's 49er fan.


So? 

The 49ers weren't the only team to win in the 80s or 90s (they only won 3 in the 80s, 2 in the 90s 1981, 1984, 1989, 1990 and 1995 and through out those decades 9 or 10 different franchises won a SuperBowl besides the 49ers; 9 different franchises have won the Superbowl over the last decade so parity is working in the NFL) and the NFL has a system that the NBA should look long and hard at if they EVER want some type of parity in their own league (oh I don't know, like add a Franchise Tag which would stop all of this "if you don't trade me I'm going to cry in the corner until you do" shit). Look no further than last season. If you would have told me before the season that the 49ers would have been one play from being the SuperBowl, I would have laughed. They had a new HC, a totally different outlook, a questionable QB and I was expecting maybe a 9 win season at best. They surpassed it all and almost got back to where they belong.

Now lets move over to the NBA, LOL! Please tell me who, besides the Heat, Lakers or Thunder will be in the NBA finals this coming season? You couldn't name one other team and the only way it happens is if those 3 teams have massive injury problems (hell the Heat were missing Bosh a lot in the playoffs and still won the whole damn thing).

Like I said, the NBA is a 3 team league right now. It is pretty much a farm league for the Lakers and other big markets. The Magic shouldn't even be allowed to be called the Magic. They are Lakers East and they should have some type of Purple and Gold uniform instead of Blue, Black and White.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

That's just the nature of the games. 1 great player can have more impact when he's going against 5 guys in bball as opposed to 11 and only playing on one side of the ball like in football.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Ronnie said:


> Congrats to the NBA. They just became a 3 team league and if you aren't a Thunder, Lakers or Heat fan, there is truly no point in watching it any more.


So it was a two team league a week ago? If so the Lakers just made it more competitive, so who is to say other teams won't?


----------



## Ronnie

That trade was atrocious by the way. I have never seen a 4 team deal, where 3 allstars are involved and the team trading the best player in the deal gets no allstars back. Not to mention, there should be some type of bad blood between the Magic and Lakers due to that whole Shaq thing that happened back in the 90s, but they still sent Howard there any way, even though he couldn't have got there any other way, LOL!

I'm amazed at how stupid the Magic FO/ownership is. They fire their entire staff only to hire more inept people, LOL! I mean they aren't totally stupid (they have been money when it comes to their top picks), but when it comes to trades or hitting the mark in FA (not only outside FAs, but the overpaying of their own players) they are complete crap, no matter who is running the show.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

Jamel Irief said:


> So it was a two team league a week ago? If so the Lakers just made it more competitive, so who is to say other teams won't?


Good point.


----------



## Ronnie

Jamel Irief said:


> So it was a two team league a week ago? If so the Lakers just made it more competitive, so who is to say other teams won't?


You're a Lakers fan so your opinion is automatically discarded. 

If you honestly believe other teams have a chance to beat those 3, please put your money where your mouth is and bet something. I'm thinking money, but we'll see if you have the balls to ante up.

By the way, this bet is for ANY ONE, not just this out of touch with reality Lakers fan.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

E.H. Munro said:


> Oh, I agree. But, think about it, in 2005 the Suns sold their mid lottery pick, they just asked for an unprotected #1 and $3 million. The Cavs could have walked out of the 2005 draft with Iguodala and Josh Smith and then run opponents into a state of exhaustion.





NOHornets said:


> Luke Jackson says "Hi"


Brb I'm going to go cry now.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Ronnie said:


> You're a Lakers fan so your opinion is automatically discarded.
> 
> If you honestly believe other teams have a chance to beat those 3, please put your money where your mouth is and bet something. I'm thinking money, but we'll see if you have the balls to ante up.
> 
> By the way, this bet is for ANY ONE, not just this out of touch with reality Lakers fan.


I'm a Laker fan, wouldn't I want to say no other team has a chance? And then you want me to bet that a team will beat my favorite team? :laugh: Oh sure, I'm going to put money on someone beating my favorite team, and then you say I'm out of touch with reality?

You just missed my point. According to you, the Lakers were out of contention a week ago. Now you say they are.

Who is to say another team can't do the same thing?


----------



## R-Star

Not to mention to all the people pulling this "Its three teams and thats it!" bullshit, where you guys around last year saying it was only a two team league with Miami and OKC?


Everyone needs to calm the **** down and quit overreacting. Kobe's somewhat of a ball hog, Dwight is a spoiled little bitch who could decide he doesn't like something again, and Pau is supposedly a mentally fragile pussy.

Not to mention players could get injured, or not come back from their current injuries 100% (ie Dwight or Dwyane)


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Ronnie said:


> Congrats to the NBA. They just became a 3 team league *and if you aren't a Thunder, Lakers or Heat fan, there is truly no point in watching it any more.*


Why? Because our favorite teams might not win it all? So what. Did it ever occur to you that maybe some of us don't watch this to see if our favorite team will win it all? I'll admit, when I was younger I didn't care much at all for basketball. Michael Jordan was interesting, and I enjoyed watching him AT TIMES (and these were just like highlights and what not, I don't think I ever once watched a full game). When he was gone, I didn't really care that much for the sport, of course I was young then. Then Lebron James came along and I watched just to see him blossom into the superstar he soon became to be, and the only reason I cared for him was because he was on a Cleveland team. But while all of that happened, I started to fall in love with the game of basketball, and pretty soon it didn't just become about the Cavs (although them winning 66 games the very next season was a awesome surprise), it also became about basketball in general. Now here I am doing the exact same thing with Kyrie Irving, only difference is, the Cavs aren't the only one I'm going to watch. I watch this stuff because I love the game.

What about you? I see you like the NFL, the worlds most overhyped sport, where a team doing a practice session gets more media attention then a triple overtime game between the two best teams in the league. And you know what? It annoys the ****ing shit out of me. I hate it. I hate the amount of media attention the NFL always constantly get over blatently nothing. Whether it's one random ****ing play from the Superbowl (and my god, I decided to watch Sportscenter on the day after the Superbowl, biggest mistake of my life), or just a NFL player giving a random interview about random shit, all I see is football. But guess what. I still watch the games, because despite how annoying and how incredibly overhyped the NFL has become, I still like it and watch it. 

Is that why you watch it? Because you love the game? Or because you love the fact that your team almost got to the Superbowl? Maybe it's both, but with your post I find that hard to believe. I love baseball, basketball, and football, the three major sports, and I'm a Cleveland fan (and a New Yorks Mets fan). Cavs chances are hopeless, our cheap dumbass of an owner of the Cleveland Indians keeps on trading away all of our all star players and cy young players, and DO NOT get me started on the Browns.

Where am I going with this? Well I guess you could say that going by your logic, I shouldn't watch any sports at all! Well I'm here to say screw you good sir, I'll continue to watch the games because I love to watch them, not because my favorite team is doing well. And hopefully everyone else does the same. 

Oh and two years ago with teams like the Heat, Lakers, Knicks, Spurs, Bulls, Celtics, OKC, teams that either had loads of talent on their team or got new talent, how many people do you think thought the Dallas Mavericks of all people would end up winning it all? I sure as hell didn't think so. I don't care how stacked LA, Miami, and OKC are. All it takes it a couple moves in the middle of the seasons, via trade, or surprising new talent coming out of nowhere making a huge impact, to suddenly turn a team into a contender. But hey if you don't like it, that's fine by me. Please, go back to worrying about an overrated QB and a QB no one gives a shit about (I'll let you figure out who is who in this situation). I on the other hand will continue to watch the Cavs and watch Irving continue to become better and better with every game he plays. 

Have a nice day.


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> Not to mention to all the people pulling this "Its three teams and thats it!" bullshit, where you guys around last year saying it was only a two team league with Miami and OKC?
> 
> 
> Everyone needs to calm the **** down and quit overreacting. Kobe's somewhat of a ball hog, Dwight is a spoiled little bitch who could decide he doesn't like something again, and Pau is supposedly a mentally fragile pussy.
> 
> Not to mention players could get injured, or not come back from their current injuries 100% (ie Dwight or Dwyane)


And then you have Nash who will pat each and every one on the head and tell them that they're great.


----------



## Hyperion

rynobot said:


> Luke Skywalker was pretty good, blew up the Death Star at age 18. That's not good anymore?


But that was a long, long time ago.


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> And you've given one example. Not to mention, according to most people on here Amara sucks now anyways. He would have somehow magically got Lebron to stay with the Cavs?
> 
> I asked for examples of big name FA's going to a small market team. You gave none.


Aside from Hill & McGrady in Orlando? Rashard Lewis was a big name when he signed, even if everyone agreed that Orlando overpaid. Isn't Phoenix a small market team? Atlanta's not New York or even New Jersey. Hell, Miami isn't exactly media mecca either. And they raided the free agent well long before the superfriends. Boozer was a pretty big name when he fled to Utah.


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> Classic arm chair quarterback syndrome.
> 
> There's 5 to 10 good GM's in the league? The rest suck?
> 
> Yea. Less than 1 3rd of NBA GM's are competent at their jobs.
> 
> 
> And you've given one example. Not to mention, according to most people on here Amara sucks now anyways. He would have somehow magically got Lebron to stay with the Cavs?
> 
> I asked for examples of big name FA's going to a small market team. You gave none.
> 
> 
> Bottom line is, my original post is spot on. If you want to live in some fantasy land where owners of 100+ million dollar franchises knowingly sign and keep inept GM's, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe they should start looking on the message boards for guys like you to run their teams.


Denver? Most players were resigned and traded. Name big name fas other than the Heat who left their teams. Brand went to philly. indy kept their players. Minnesota somehow traded for the best pf in the league and resigned him. Utah has consistently made smart trades and signings. 



R-Star said:


> There were tons of better deals on the table. Atlanta, Houston, and others. Orlando just decided to say _"Hey, lets take the worst deal out there because I'm a dumb GM and that's what I do."_
> 
> I mean, it says so on the internet, so it must be true right?


Jacque Vaughn is my counter.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> Aside from Hill & McGrady in Orlando? Rashard Lewis was a big name when he signed, even if everyone agreed that Orlando overpaid. Isn't Phoenix a small market team? Atlanta's not New York or even New Jersey. Hell, Miami isn't exactly media mecca either. And they raided the free agent well long before the superfriends. Boozer was a pretty big name when he fled to Utah.


Both Rashard Lewis, Carlos Boozer and even Amare Stoudemire only help prove my point if you read my post EH.


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> Denver? Most players were resigned and traded. Name big name fas other than the Heat who left their teams. Brand went to philly. indy kept their players. Minnesota somehow traded for the best pf in the league and resigned him. Utah has consistently made smart trades and signings.
> 
> 
> 
> Jacque Vaughn is my counter.


Minnesota and Love? It was a draft day trade between two rookies. 

Brand? Yea, that's been viewed as a wild success hasn't it? Or is it in fact probably one of the things people will point their finger at when they criticize Philly's management? Like I posted earlier. 

Come on. Do better if you're going to try here.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

R-Star said:


> Not to mention to all the people pulling this "Its three teams and thats it!" bullshit, where you guys around last year saying it was only a two team league with Miami and OKC?
> 
> 
> Everyone needs to calm the **** down and quit overreacting. Kobe's somewhat of a ball hog, Dwight is a spoiled little bitch who could decide he doesn't like something again, and Pau is supposedly a mentally fragile pussy.
> 
> Not to mention players could get injured, or not come back from their current injuries 100% (ie Dwight or Dwyane)


I find this post hilarious. Totally golf clapping for R Star right now.


----------



## Jamel Irief

E.H. Munro said:


> Aside from Hill & McGrady in Orlando? Rashard Lewis was a big name when he signed, even if everyone agreed that Orlando overpaid. Isn't Phoenix a small market team? Atlanta's not New York or even New Jersey. Hell, Miami isn't exactly media mecca either. And they raided the free agent well long before the superfriends. Boozer was a pretty big name when he fled to Utah.


Grant Hill is probably the 3rd biggest name to switch teams in free agency history after shaq and lebron.


----------



## e-monk

I remember when the Magic had positioned themselves for an offseason where they planned to land Duncan - was that the same summer they picked up Hill? If not it was close


----------



## Jamel Irief

e-monk said:


> I remember when the Magic had positioned themselves for an offseason where they planned to land Duncan - was that the same summer they picked up Hill? If not it was close


It was. And the bulls cleared a ton of room that summer too and got Ron mercer and brad miller. :laugh:


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> Both Rashard Lewis, Carlos Boozer and even Amare Stoudemire only help prove my point if you read my post EH.


I have no idea what Amar'e has to do with anything. Steve Nash signed with Phoenix years ago when he had larger market suitors, and left a larger market for Phoenix. Seattle was certainly a larger market than Orlando, Toronto is a giant market and even Detroit was still a large market when McGrady & Hill fled for Orlando. Lamar Odom was a pretty big name when he left the LA market and rejected offers from other large markets to play in Miami, which is largely a media backwater. Andre Miller, whom I forgot, also walked out of the LA market and only entertained offers from those megalopolises Denver and Salt Lake City. 

Contrary to your claims, it actually happens. But teams, regardless of market, have to be well run to land major free agents. It will be a long time before any star trusts the Tragic again because Otis Smith and the current "braintrust" has poisoned the well for a while.


----------



## e-monk

Miami cant really be considered a small market, not if you factor in suburban sprawl (west hollywood, Ft Lauderdale etc) and in any event there are other factors to consider

toronto = tax- vs orlando = tax+
detroit = urban decay
miami = glamour and night life

etc

and Lamar/Miller were leaving the Clippers, the fact that they are based in LA is incidental - that said they're a pretty good example of how it takes more than just an attractive market to get it done and underline your point vis ownership/organization


----------



## Jamel Irief

e-monk said:


> Miami cant really be considered a small market, not if you factor in suburban sprawl (west hollywood, Ft Lauderdale etc) and in any event there are other factors to consider
> 
> toronto = tax- vs orlando = tax+
> detroit = urban decay
> miami = glamour and night life
> 
> etc
> 
> and Lamar/Miller were leaving the Clippers, the fact that they are based in LA is incidental - that said they're a pretty good example of how it takes more than just an attractive market to get it done and underline your point vis ownership/organization


Actually, to go back on my previous post- in 2000 Chicago and Orlando both had cap space. Small market Orlando scored the second and third best FA's that summer. The Bulls got guys that weren't even top 7.

Two years ago New Jersey, New York and Chicago all had cap space and New York had to overpay Amar'e Chicago arguably overpaid Boozer (at the time, now it's clear they did) and New Jersey overpaid Travis Outlaw.

The Lakers are just a perfect storm of location, prestige and great front office leadership. Phoenix has always been a top FA desitnation despite being a smaller market for the same reason (though they have slipped in terms of front office leadership the last 5 years).


----------



## E.H. Munro

e-monk said:


> Miami cant really be considered a small market, not if you factor in suburban sprawl (west hollywood, Ft Lauderdale etc) and in any event there are other factors to consider
> 
> toronto = tax- vs orlando = tax+
> detroit = urban decay
> miami = glamour and night life


Detroit a dozen years ago isn't the Detroit you're familiar with from the news stories today. And night life is about all Miami has going for it. I'm down on the treasure coast 2-3 months a year so I'm familiar with it. It's still not exactly a media mecca. Also, people tend to overstate the tax issue because just about every locale (outside Florida & Texas) has a "jock tax". So you end up paying state & local income taxes on your money anyways (and the NBA has jiggered the rules to help out the Canuckian teams with the tax issues).


----------



## hobojoe

E.H. Munro said:


> Detroit a dozen years ago isn't the Detroit you're familiar with from the news stories today. And night life is about all Miami has going for it. I'm down on the treasure coast 2-3 months a year so I'm familiar with it. It's still not exactly a media mecca. Also, people tend to overstate the tax issue because just about every locale (outside Florida & Texas) has a "jock tax". So you end up paying state & local income taxes on your money anyways (and the NBA has jiggered the rules to help out the Canuckian teams with the tax issues).


Well yea, they pay the jock tax for half of their games. Still a lot better than all of them.


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> Minnesota and Love? It was a draft day trade between two rookies.
> 
> Brand? Yea, that's been viewed as a wild success hasn't it? Or is it in fact probably one of the things people will point their finger at when they criticize Philly's management? Like I posted earlier.
> 
> Come on. Do better if you're going to try here.


Van Exel left LA to Denver. 

The Kings build their contending team through trades. 

The Pistons signed Billups and traded for the rest of their starting 5 that won the championship in '04

By the way, didn't David West sign with your Pacers last year? Is he not a big name FA? I mean if you're referring to a MAX player, well they tend to stay in one spot or get traded to their next location. 

You look at teams like Utah who are always able to have a team one player away from competing for a ring and can see that their management is a cut above teams like the Wizards, Bucks, and Atlanta who will always be a bottom dweller in the league as long as the current ownership is in place. Phoenix has slid down there as well.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> I have no idea what Amar'e has to do with anything. Steve Nash signed with Phoenix years ago when he had larger market suitors, and left a larger market for Phoenix. Seattle was certainly a larger market than Orlando, Toronto is a giant market and even Detroit was still a large market when McGrady & Hill fled for Orlando. Lamar Odom was a pretty big name when he left the LA market and rejected offers from other large markets to play in Miami, which is largely a media backwater. Andre Miller, whom I forgot, also walked out of the LA market and only entertained offers from those megalopolises Denver and Salt Lake City.
> 
> Contrary to your claims, it actually happens. But teams, regardless of market, have to be well run to land major free agents. It will be a long time before any star trusts the Tragic again because Otis Smith and the current "braintrust" has poisoned the well for a while.


A) You bring up Seattle and Orlando which is laughable for two reasons. Number one being that in my original post I said teams like Orlando had to over pay to get big name players in free agency, so again EH, Rashard Lewis helps prove my point.

B) Seattle is a big market team to you? Really? Oh. Well who's playing there now? And Toronto is a gigantic market? Are you on drugs? We're talking basketball, not hockey. 


I mean, if you want to live in a fantasy world, fine. But that's the whole point here isn't it?


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> Van Exel left LA to Denver.
> 
> The Kings build their contending team through trades.
> 
> The Pistons signed Billups and traded for the rest of their starting 5 that won the championship in '04
> 
> By the way, didn't David West sign with your Pacers last year? Is he not a big name FA? I mean if you're referring to a MAX player, well they tend to stay in one spot or get traded to their next location.
> 
> You look at teams like Utah who are always able to have a team one player away from competing for a ring and can see that their management is a cut above teams like the Wizards, Bucks, and Atlanta who will always be a bottom dweller in the league as long as the current ownership is in place. Phoenix has slid down there as well.


Nick Van Exel is your A game here? How many decades ago did that happen? Chauncy Billups? Who basically made his career in Detroit. His best year prior to the Pistons was getting 13 and 6 and that's rounding up both numbers.

****ing David West? Most people said "Nice signing, but you overpaid" when we got the guy. Not to mention he was coming off a major injury, or the fact its the Pacers biggest free agent signing in over a decade which helps prove my point all the more.


You aren't doing a good job representing your case here.


----------



## JonMatrix

FWIW, in 2000, I believe Chicago had Jerry Krause running the show. That probably had something to do with them ending up with Mercer and Brad Miller (when he was still a scrub, not the Indy/early Sactown version).

Billups was considered overpaid when he signed with Detroit. He cashed in after Terrell Brandon got hurt in Minny and had a few big playoff games as the only other viable scorer besides KG. Yes I'm counting Wally World- dude vanished in the playoffs every year.


----------



## R-Star

JonMatrix said:


> FWIW, in 2000, I believe Chicago had Jerry Krause running the show. That probably had something to do with them ending up with Mercer and Brad Miller (when he was still a scrub, not the Indy/early Sactown version).


I love that you guys picked up Mercer and Miller, because Indy got both and Artest from you guys. 

I loved that trade, although Jalen has always been one of my favorite players so it was sad to see him go.


----------



## e-monk

Hyperion said:


> Van Exel left LA to Denver.


to address this from the lakers pov

can cun! can cun!
dont let the door hit you on the ass on the way out


----------



## e-monk

E.H. Munro said:


> Detroit a dozen years ago isn't the Detroit you're familiar with from the news stories today.


Detroit's fall from grace has been decades in the making



> And night life is about all Miami has going for it. I'm down on the treasure coast 2-3 months a year so I'm familiar with it. It's still not exactly a media mecca.


I work out of MIA and FLL 2 or 3 times a year, it's not just about media, it's about life-style - there's plenty of diversity and vibrant night life - if I were a young man with unlimited resources I could find plenty to like about living there


----------



## R-Star

e-monk said:


> Detroit's fall from grace has been decades in the making
> 
> 
> 
> I work out of MIA and FLL 2 or 3 times a year, it's not just about media, it's about life-style - there's plenty of diversity and vibrant night life - if I were a young man with unlimited resources I could find plenty to like about living there


Pfffft. Miami.... 

Who wants to be there when you could be in a big market like Seatle, or better yet, a gigantic market like Toronto?


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> Nick Van Exel is your A game here? How many decades ago did that happen? Chauncy Billups? Who basically made his career in Detroit. His best year prior to the Pistons was getting 13 and 6 and that's rounding up both numbers.
> 
> ****ing David West? Most people said "Nice signing, but you overpaid" when we got the guy. Not to mention he was coming off a major injury, or the fact its the Pacers biggest free agent signing in over a decade which helps prove my point all the more.
> 
> 
> You aren't doing a good job representing your case here.


Look, I can't make these teams not suck. However, those are the rules for free agency. You overpay to get them. The rest are traded for. I don't see why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp. Good gms should be able to improve their team, barring injuries, through the draft and trades. Free agency means that you have to pay more than what the original team is willing to pay. Bad gms keep their teams mired in mediocrity or worse. The terrible gms keep their teams crappy AND over the cap.


----------



## e-monk

who wants to go to the beach? or go sports fishing or clubbing in south beach I'd much rather hang out in down town milwaukee and get some bratz


----------



## Hyperion

Do you know who doesn't want to live at the beach? The guy who is getting paid millions more to play in Milwaukee. In the summertime they can live anywhere they want.


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> Look, I can't make these teams not suck. However, those are the rules for free agency. You overpay to get them. The rest are traded for. I don't see why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp. Good gms should be able to improve their team, barring injuries, through the draft and trades. Free agency means that you have to pay more than what the original team is willing to pay. Bad gms keep their teams mired in mediocrity or worse. The terrible gms keep their teams crappy AND over the cap.


What players through the draft is a none lotto team going to get and build around? There's a couple decent mid pick players every year, and that's about it. I already pointed that out.

I also pointed out that these teams have to overpay in free agency to get decent players, which is something you were previously complaining about, and now you're acting like it was part of argument the whole time. 

And again, if you're a Cleveland who stunk prior to getting Lebron and have no assets, what trades are you going to make? You have hardly any talent on the roster to begin with. So the only deals that can be made are for overpaid players teams are wanting to get rid of, and overpaying in the free agency. Then guys like you try to look back and say "Well that xxxx player contract sure was a shitty one. Must mean their GM sucks!"


I can't piece this together any better for guys like you and EH. If you guys actually think these GM's are morons, and people such as yourself could do a better job, then there's no much point having this argument.


The best argument for either of you would be Indiana, who has built through some lucky drafting and equally lucky trades and signings. At the same time, Roy Hibbert could end up staying the same or regressing, and all of the sudden he's a terrible overpaid contract that you hindsight warriors will point out as the reason Indy has bad management, or Darren Collison could blow up in Dallas while Mahinmi could be.... well his usual mediocre self and yep, there's another place to say "What an idiot GM. That's why Indy isn't one of the great teams."


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> Do you know who doesn't want to live at the beach? The guy who is getting paid millions more to play in Milwaukee. In the summertime they can live anywhere they want.


Uhhhhh.......

That's the sound of a frustrated R-Star.


Were you not previously one of the ones complaining about overpaying and bad contracts?

Now you're doing what? Are you leaving that aspect of the argument, or are you now trying to act like overpaying to get a guy to come to your undesirable market is the move of a good GM? Because that's kind of contrary to your previous complaints about Orlando and Cleveland, now isn't it?


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> A) You bring up Seattle and Orlando which is laughable for two reasons. Number one being that in my original post I said teams like Orlando had to over pay to get big name players in free agency, so again EH, Rashard Lewis helps prove my point.


McGrady & Hill had offers from every team that had cleaned its cap for the summer of 2000, which was pretty much all of them (except for Boston, but that goes back to the bad management thing). And yet with New York & Chicago and every other team in chase Orlando got both guys. Two huge free agent prizes. But Hill chose to play in Disneyworld rather than a major market. And McGrady followed him. Orlando didn't "overpay" for them as they were both max contract guys at the time of the signing. 

Lewis goes back to the bad management thing. The Tragic didn't have to pay him as much as they did, but they went out and did it anyway because the braintrust was stupid.



R-Star said:


> B) Seattle is a big market team to you?


I'm pretty sure I said "Bigger than Orlando". Let me check. Yep, that's what I said. Bigger than Orlando. And when you're flogging the "No one ever goes to small markets!!!!" skippy harder than Fred Willard in a dirty movie theatre you may want to avoid mentioning a team leaving a city whose municipal population is larger than the metro region they're moving to.



R-Star said:


> And Toronto is a gigantic market? Are you on drugs? We're talking basketball, not hockey.


Why? Does the Toronto metro region double in size on nights when the Leafs are playing? I was under the impression that it was 5-6 million no matter who was playing. The 2-3 million people that move in and out of the area daily, is it the same people or does the government of Ontario have some sort of standing evacuation plan in place to limit the population when the Raptors play?


----------



## E.H. Munro

e-monk said:


> I work out of MIA and FLL 2 or 3 times a year, it's not just about media, it's about life-style - there's plenty of diversity and vibrant night life - if I were a young man with unlimited resources I could find plenty to like about living there


Yes, but this has nothing to do with the "Players never go to small markets!!!!" thing. Players move to new teams for a huge variety of reasons. If the only calculation that ever went into this was "Major market or bust!!!!" then the NBA all star teams would all be playing in metro New York, Chicago, metro LA and Toronto. But Toronto has had a heck of a time getting free agents and players have left all those other markets for small markets. The calculus just isn't that simple, which was my point from the beginning.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> McGrady & Hill had offers from every team that had cleaned its cap for the summer of 2000, which was pretty much all of them (except for Boston, but that goes back to the bad management thing). And yet with New York & Chicago and every other team in chase Orlando got both guys. Two huge free agent prizes. But Hill chose to play in Disneyworld rather than a major market. And McGrady followed him. Orlando didn't "overpay" for them as they were both max contract guys at the time of the signing.
> 
> Lewis goes back to the bad management thing. The Tragic didn't have to pay him as much as they did, but they went out and did it anyway because the braintrust was stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure I said "Bigger than Orlando". Let me check. Yep, that's what I said. Bigger than Orlando. And when you're flogging the "No one ever goes to small markets!!!!" skippy harder than Fred Willard in a dirty movie theatre you may want to avoid mentioning a team leaving a city whose municipal population is larger than the metro region they're moving to.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Does the Toronto metro region double in size on nights when the Leafs are playing? I was under the impression that it was 5-6 million no matter who was playing. The 2-3 million people that move in and out of the area daily, is it the same people or does the government of Ontario have some sort of standing evacuation plan in place to limit the population when the Raptors play?


Or it could be the fact that no one wants to play in Toronto because they get taxed to shit by Canadian taxes (not sure how it works if they're under work visas), its cold, its not the good old U S of A, etc.

You can't just look at a cities size and call it a big market team without taking those things into account. The Maple Leafs are one of the biggest sports franchises out there. The Raptors are not. Even then, speaking of the Leafs who are the biggest show in hockey, they consistently overpay for free agents and never have big name players wanting to go there. Most big name guys stay in the States for the tax breaks and warm weather. If they can't get the big names in hockey, they sure as shit aren't getting them in basketball.


----------



## Ron

Ronnie said:


> Congrats to the NBA. They just became a 3 team league and if you aren't a Thunder, Lakers or Heat fan, there is truly no point in watching it any more.


Go cry me a river.


----------



## Ron

Jamel Irief said:


> So it was a two team league a week ago? If so the Lakers just made it more competitive, so who is to say other teams won't?


When I first saw this post I thought you were ****ing with me. Then I realized I would never have written that.

Now I see I should have restricted some user names. **** me. And of all places, the Bay Area. Heaven help me.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Hyperion said:


> Van Exel left LA to Denver.


The Lakers traded Nick. It feels good to correct a guy who enjoys correcting people! :yesyesyes:


----------



## Jamel Irief

Ron said:


> When I first saw this post I thought you were ****ing with me. Then I realized I would never have written that.
> 
> Now I see I should have restricted some user names. **** me. And of all places, the Bay Area. Heaven help me.


Wait until you see what a guy named Ronald has been writing.


----------



## scdn

Here's an example of a star going to a mid-market team:

Mutumbo went from Denver to Atlanta


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> The Maple Leafs are one of the biggest sports franchises out there. The Raptors are not.


Neither of which has anything to do with the size of the Toronto metro region, and that's before addressing the size of the lower Ontario market. I mean the entire freaking treasure coast isn't as large as metro Toronto.


----------



## scdn

Toronto is 10% of Canada's population.


----------



## Hyperion

Jamel Irief said:


> The Lakers traded Nick. It feels good to correct a guy who enjoys correcting people! :yesyesyes:


That's what I get for posting on my phone. You have made a powerful enemy today.

Does mcdyess count then? He left phoenix for denver.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> Neither of which has anything to do with the size of the Toronto metro region, and that's before addressing the size of the lower Ontario market. I mean the entire freaking treasure coast isn't as large as metro Toronto.


No. Like I said, it has to do with no one wanting to pay the Canadian taxes, the cold weather, and you could also add the fact that it is a huge microscope media wise.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Wait, so now you're saying that players don't want to play in high tax jurisdictions where they're under a media microscope? You understand that you just described metro New York and LA, right?


----------



## E.H. Munro

Hyperion said:


> That's what I get for posting on my phone. You have made a powerful enemy today.
> 
> Does mcdyess count then? He left phoenix for denver.


Yeah, to the extent that he rejected offers from larger markets to go back to Denver where felt comfortable.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> Wait, so now you're saying that players don't want to play in high tax jurisdictions where they're under a media microscope? You understand that you just described metro New York and LA, right?


Its nothing similar to playing for the Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens microscope wise. 

Neither is the tax similar.


Nor the weather.


Come on. 

Hollywood or Toronto. Hmmmm.... Yea. Lets compare them like they're equals as a destination EH. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> No. Like I said, it has to do with no one wanting to pay the Canadian taxes, the cold weather, and you could also add the fact that it is a huge microscope media wise.


maybe it's the fact that they aren't in the usa, everyone speaks french, is more educated than them and throws it in their faces by saying crap like, "did you see the new exhibit at the museum?" And he replies "No I didn't know.he was playing" then they laugh in that way only condescending canadians can. Would you want to live in a place like I wouldn't.


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> maybe it's the fact that they aren't in the usa, everyone speaks french, is more educated than them and throws it in their faces by saying crap like, "did you see the new exhibit at the museum?" And he replies "No I didn't know.he was playing" then they laugh in that way only condescending canadians can. Would you want to live in a place like I wouldn't.


That only applies to the Montreal Canadians. And I agree, I'd never want to live there either.

French people stink and are lazy. I always try to find people from Quebec on this website and pick fights with them, but it hasn't panned out yet.


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> Its nothing similar to playing for the Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens microscope wise.
> 
> Neither is the tax similar.


New York city has a municipal income tax. Plus a pretty high state income tax. Oh, and they have millionaire's taxes too. Same for California. And California has the highest state income tax in the US. So, yeah, players are playing under a media microscope, the taxes are high, and in New York the weather sucks.

But ultimately it's not just about market size. Players make their choices for a variety of reasons. Which is all I've said from the start.


----------



## Dee-Zy

Find people from Quebec to just pick fights? What kind of attitude is that? 

Have you even been to Mtl? I dare you to come here during the summer and not fall in love with the city, or at the very least, the gorgeous women here. You might get in a car crash with so many around here. 

As for that arrogant and condescending bullshit, that is so disappointing. I don't even ****ing know where you get those dumb stereotypes. Not all Canada is French. Pretty much only Quebec is. That intellectual shit you talk about, I'm unfortunately will have to admit that there are plenty of ******** in Canada as well. Canadians in general are actually quite open minded and progressive. Doesn't make them intellectual and all go to museums all the time. 

That is some real ignorant shit you guys are talking about. 


Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> New York city has a municipal income tax. Plus a pretty high state income tax. Oh, and they have millionaire's taxes too. Same for California. And California has the highest state income tax in the US. So, yeah, players are playing under a media microscope, the taxes are high, and in New York the weather sucks.
> 
> But ultimately it's not just about market size. Players make their choices for a variety of reasons. Which is all I've said from the start.


No. You and Hyperion have complained about how teams overpay for players and can't get good talent. I've explained why they can't. You've managed to agree with many of the reasons why.


----------



## R-Star

Dee-Zy said:


> Find people from Quebec to just pick fights? What kind of attitude is that?
> 
> Have you even been to Mtl? I dare you to come here during the summer and not fall in love with the city, or at the very least, the gorgeous women here. You might get in a car crash with so many around here.
> 
> As for that arrogant and condescending bullshit, that is so disappointing. I don't even ****ing know where you get those dumb stereotypes. Not all Canada is French. Pretty much only Quebec is. That intellectual shit you talk about, I'm unfortunately will have to admit that there are plenty of ******** in Canada as well. Canadians in general are actually quite open minded and progressive. Doesn't make them intellectual and all go to museums all the time.
> 
> That is some real ignorant shit you guys are talking about.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


I understand Montreal is beautiful. I was also joking about about French people when I said shit like "French people stink."

That being said by and large Quebec is a blight on the country. You guys have the lowest post secondary costs and you guys ****ing riot about it? I know a ridiculous amount of my tax money goes straight to Quebec to pay for you guys and you still want more. You want us to build you an arena because you don't figure you should pay for it yourselves, a large number of your population refuses to learn english and hate english speaking people, the list goes on and on. On top of that there's still threats to separate? 

I like you. I like a lot of french Canadians I've met. But I hate your province.


----------



## hroz

Ummmm........

Can someone post more about the draft picks the Magic are getting. 

I mean Magic took Harrington who they have to pay 21 million over 3 years and Afflalo who will make 30 million over 4 years.
Frankly Harrington has a bad contract and Afflalo has a slightly overpaid contract but not by much. (plus they still have Reddick playing SG neither are really tall enough for SF)

Frankly Harrington's contract is worse than Richardson's (18.3 over 3 years). And Richardson is the better player imo.

Harkless and Vucecic are good gambles. But not worth they have Afflalo's long term contract and Harrington's awful contract. 

Frankly if the Draft picks arent lottery picks. Then I would have preferred to have got nothing than get this package if I was a Magic fan.


----------



## hroz

WOW reading about the picks makes me want to cry for the Magic. 

They get a 1st round pick in 2014 from Nuggets (NOT 2013, IN 2014). When lawson gallinari and Mcgee will be even better and Andre will still be playing defense. Not going to be a lottery pick. Maybe 18 to 24 pick.
And a 2nd round pick this year pick 45 to 55 probably.

A conditional 1st round pick from Sixers presumably top 10 or something protected not to worry Sixers will make the playoffs this season so Magic are looking at a 18 to 24 pick. 
A conditional 1ST round pick in 2017. If Howard is still there its not going to be lottery I mean how many seasons have the Lakers missed the playoffs..... Plus its conditional???? Are you kidding me?
And a conditional 2nd round pick in 2015 from the Lakers (WTF??????)

Man Magic management SUCKS................

This is their rotation for the next 2/3 years

PG:Nelson(2 years 17 million, bad contract, plus team option last year partially guaranteed)/????????
SG:Afflalo (30million over 4 years maybe worth that much but not for a rebuilding team. He should be tradeable for a low 1st rounder imo)/Q.Richardson(5 million over 2 years not awful but an unnecessary contract)
SF:Turkologu(24 million over 2 years, one of the worst contracts in the league)/Harrington(21 million over 3 years, bad contract)
PFavis (19.5 million over 3 years see Afflalo)/Harkless(fingers crossed rookie contracts are awesome)/Nicholson(fingers crossed rookie contracts are awesome)
C:???????/Vucevic(fingers crossed rookie contracts are awesome)

So they have no starting centre......... And no backup PG...........
They have Reddick and Afflalo fighting for minutes at SG and the addition of Afflalo means you can not resign Reddick. 
And for the next 2 years they are stuck with
Nelson/Turkologu/Q.Richardson/Harrington(3)/Davis(3)/Afflalo(4)

Reddick, McRoberts, Harper, Eyenga, Ayon have expirings.

Fingers crossed Harkless or Nicholson pans out. And hopefully Vucevic looks promising too.

And a 1st round draft of their own probably top 5 and a 20 pick. 

They are locked into 2 maybe 3 bad seasons.


----------



## Dee-Zy

R-Star said:


> I understand Montreal is beautiful. I was also joking about about French people when I said shit like "French people stink."
> 
> That being said by and large Quebec is a blight on the country. You guys have the lowest post secondary costs and you guys ****ing riot about it? I know a ridiculous amount of my tax money goes straight to Quebec to pay for you guys and you still want more. You want us to build you an arena because you don't figure you should pay for it yourselves, a large number of your population refuses to learn english and hate english speaking people, the list goes on and on. On top of that there's still threats to separate?
> 
> I like you. I like a lot of french Canadians I've met. But I hate your province.


Once again, a lot of misinformation. Have you ever been to Quebec for more than 48h? No, Quebec doesn't hate English people, we sure as hell hate people who talk about how they hate Quebec or start talking shit about how Quebec is like this or like that. Yes they don't learn English enough and that is a problem. Some do want to learn it but the system is shit, others don't care for it (so yeah, a problem either way). 

As for the rioting, are you aware that the education system could actually be free? Not in a utopian way, in the way that if the government wasn't corrupted and give 400 million dollars away to companies like the Stornoway Diamond Corporation to build a ****ing piece of road for them to go extract, sorry rob, the diamond in our basement to just export it raw, without transforming the product before exportation. The project hasn't even been shown as profitable, it has negative ROI. That same ****ing money can be injected in providing education. People are rioting against a government that wouldn't listen and throws away money. Post-Secondary education has an average of 8x the ROI of the money invested in it. On the long term, the sustainable solution IS to invest in education, not throwing the money to companies that sleeps with the government and wouldn't help the economy that much, even on the short term.

It's not because the US and other provinces have expensive tuition that they are actually the right model to follow. Plenty of European university systems has shown to provide a much better quality of life and stable economies, like in Germany, UK, Belgium, Holland, Switzerland and Scandinavian countries.

I would be ok for a raise in tuition, at the same rate as inflation, merely 2-5% a year but a hike of 75% over 5 years is disgusting.

I would also add that the student protest movement has been quite peaceful and cooperative for the most part. The riots you hear about are anarchists and radicals who infiltrate those protests and start creating rawkus. Then you have power tripping police who just starts adding oil to the fire by beating anybody that looks like a student, even people who weren't protesting.

So back to the matter at hand,

Yes that deal does seem like ass for the Magic. I can understand that they don't want a Bynum that walks out on them but they needed to get better contracts and picks than that!?! Even a bunch of late lottery picks is crap.


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> No. You and Hyperion have complained about how teams overpay for players and can't get good talent. I've explained why they can't. You've managed to agree with many of the reasons why.


Free agency across the board means you're overpaying a player. It doesn't matter if your franchise is in Miami LA or Milwaukee. Great teams are built through trades and drafts, when players have no say in where they go. The only time a FA coup works is when it's an understood max contract player. That way you can't overpay for him, in fact you get him at a discount because he hates his former team that much.


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> No. You and Hyperion have complained about how teams overpay for players and can't get good talent. I've explained why they can't. You've managed to agree with many of the reasons why.


errrr, what? I said that Orlando has hideous management, which is unquestionably true. I mean teams from all markets, big and small, overpay players all the time. Or are you going to tell us that the New York Knicks are a small market team and that's why they had to overpay Amar'e?


----------



## Hyperion

Dee-Zy said:


> Find people from Quebec to just pick fights? What kind of attitude is that?
> 
> Have you even been to Mtl? I dare you to come here during the summer and not fall in love with the city, or at the very least, the gorgeous women here. You might get in a car crash with so many around here.
> 
> As for that arrogant and condescending bullshit, that is so disappointing. I don't even ****ing know where you get those dumb stereotypes. Not all Canada is French. Pretty much only Quebec is. That intellectual shit you talk about, I'm unfortunately will have to admit that there are plenty of ******** in Canada as well. Canadians in general are actually quite open minded and progressive. Doesn't make them intellectual and all go to museums all the time.
> 
> That is some real ignorant shit you guys are talking about.


Clearly all of your museum going and symphony listening has eliminated you facetious detector. Now you're too good to laugh? You know who doesn't like to laugh? Arrogant Canadians. You Canadian are all the same, you think your country is the only one that matters and can't even name a president of another country or even find where your military is waging war on a map.


----------



## Dee-Zy

No, I don't see anything funny about comments that are throwing jabs at my country. I take no pride in invading other countries.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Hyperion said:


> Clearly all of your museum going and symphony listening has eliminated you facetious detector. Now you're too good to laugh? You know who doesn't like to laugh? Arrogant Canadians. You Canadian are all the same, you think your country is the only one that matters and can't even name a president of another country or even find where your military is waging war on a map.


First off, all Canuckians know about their last great military victory in the Great Nunavut Water Buffalo War. In second the Quebecois problem is obviously an inferiority complex, and that's not entirely their fault. They keep demanding to be repatriated to France but the official French response to their repeated requests has been "Faugh! You filthy Quebecois are not good enough to be cheese eating surrender monkeys!"


----------



## XxIrvingxX

This thread has completely gone off topic.


----------



## e-monk

I dont think people oughta still be voting


----------



## Dee-Zy

http://vimeo.com/32084517


----------



## Bogg

XxIrvingxX said:


> This thread has completely gone off topic.


Highly irregular. I can very nearly guarantee that this is the last time you'll see an off-topic thread on this site.


----------



## PauloCatarino

Obviously, as a Laker fan, i'm pretty happy to see D-Ho join the Lakers.

But i can't stop thinking Howard is in the "hot seat" regarding next season, and has put himself in the most difficult position.

He is viewed as a knucklehead and he's coming from back surgery.
He joined a team that, unless they win the championship, next season will be a disappointment and rub off on Howard.
He is replacing a 2-time championship, all-star Center.
He will have to deal playing with Kobe, and forgetting all the "offense through me" idea.

I hope Howard will be able to handle that kinda pressure...


----------



## R-Star

Dee-Zy said:


> Once again, a lot of misinformation. Have you ever been to Quebec for more than 48h? No, Quebec doesn't hate English people, we sure as hell hate people who talk about how they hate Quebec or start talking shit about how Quebec is like this or like that. Yes they don't learn English enough and that is a problem. Some do want to learn it but the system is shit, others don't care for it (so yeah, a problem either way).
> 
> As for the rioting, are you aware that the education system could actually be free? Not in a utopian way, in the way that if the government wasn't corrupted and give 400 million dollars away to companies like the Stornoway Diamond Corporation to build a ****ing piece of road for them to go extract, sorry rob, the diamond in our basement to just export it raw, without transforming the product before exportation. The project hasn't even been shown as profitable, it has negative ROI. That same ****ing money can be injected in providing education. People are rioting against a government that wouldn't listen and throws away money. Post-Secondary education has an average of 8x the ROI of the money invested in it. On the long term, the sustainable solution IS to invest in education, not throwing the money to companies that sleeps with the government and wouldn't help the economy that much, even on the short term.
> 
> It's not because the US and other provinces have expensive tuition that they are actually the right model to follow. Plenty of European university systems has shown to provide a much better quality of life and stable economies, like in Germany, UK, Belgium, Holland, Switzerland and Scandinavian countries.
> 
> I would be ok for a raise in tuition, at the same rate as inflation, merely 2-5% a year but a hike of 75% over 5 years is disgusting.
> 
> I would also add that the student protest movement has been quite peaceful and cooperative for the most part. The riots you hear about are anarchists and radicals who infiltrate those protests and start creating rawkus. Then you have power tripping police who just starts adding oil to the fire by beating anybody that looks like a student, even people who weren't protesting.
> 
> So back to the matter at hand,
> 
> Yes that deal does seem like ass for the Magic. I can understand that they don't want a Bynum that walks out on them but they needed to get better contracts and picks than that!?! Even a bunch of late lottery picks is crap.


Why are you concerned about the money when its not yours? A large portion of it is Albertas. 

What is Quebecs major export? What do they provide the country with? Art?


And again, its ****ing asinine that the province with the lowest tuition (because other provinces foot the bill for you) decides to riot over it. Then you guys argue about your right to run around with your faces covered up to conceal your identities. 

I think the easy solution is to just stop handing money to Quebec. Also, I find it funny you didn't want to talk about the arena your province wants the rest of the country to fund.


Again. I like you, I like a lot of french Canadians I've met. Despise your province. So don't take this as a personal attack.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> First off, all Canuckians know about their last great military victory in the Great Nunavut Water Buffalo War. In second the Quebecois problem is obviously an inferiority complex, and that's not entirely their fault. They keep demanding to be repatriated to France but the official French response to their repeated requests has been "Faugh! You filthy Quebecois are not good enough to be cheese eating surrender monkeys!"


We had an ok military victory when we kicked your ass when you attempted to invade us. 

1812 mother ****ers. 


*CA-NA-DA! CA-NA-DA!*


----------



## roux

R-Star said:


> We had an ok military victory when we kicked your ass when you attempted to invade us.
> 
> 1812 mother ****ers.
> 
> 
> *CA-NA-DA! CA-NA-DA!*


One of the many Canadian military triumphs


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


----------



## Luke

Dwight has never had an offense go through him. He's never played with capable playmakers.


----------



## R-Star

Why would he have an offense go through him in LA?

I'd argue that's exactly what he had in Orlando.


----------



## e-monk

point r-star


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

The offense won't be run through Dwight, but he has never played with guys as talented as Kobe/Pau/Nash. That can only help him. I mean, who was the best player he had ever played with? Turkoglu? Carter? Steve Francis?


----------



## Dre

R-Star said:


> Why would he have an offense go through him in LA?
> 
> I'd argue that's exactly what he had in Orlando.


If you want to play the SVG card then I'll play it here and note those Magic were known for being a 3 point shooting team, not for Dwight.

People used to rant and rave about how he never got enough touches or had a good enough PG. It's partially his fault because he can't pass well out of double teams yet but still, I don't think the Magic offense went through him at all. He was pretty much Bynum in LA on a higher level...he got his points but wasn't the focal point.


----------



## e-monk

actually the Magic were known for surrounding Dwight with 3 pt shooters - there's a strategy there that 'centers' itself 'around Dwight'


----------



## Dre

e-monk said:


> actually the Magic were known for surrounding Dwight with 3 pt shooters - there's a strategy there that 'centers' itself 'around Dwight'


Thanks R-star

But they weren't surrounding him with 3 point shooters, they had a lot of 3 point shooters and he'd rebound their shots. There's a difference. He can't even pass out of double teams, so don't act like it's some brilliant strategy to allow the defense to collapse on him so he can find the open man. 

SVG never trusted him enough to truly build the offense around him.


----------



## R-Star

Dre said:


> If you want to play the SVG card then I'll play it here and note those Magic were known for being a 3 point shooting team, not for Dwight.
> 
> People used to rant and rave about how he never got enough touches or had a good enough PG. It's partially his fault because he can't pass well out of double teams yet but still, I don't think the Magic offense went through him at all. He was pretty much Bynum in LA on a higher level...he got his points but wasn't the focal point.


If you take more shots than anyone else on your team, you're the focal point.


----------



## R-Star

Dre said:


> Thanks R-star
> 
> But they weren't surrounding him with 3 point shooters, they had a lot of 3 point shooters and he'd rebound their shots. There's a difference. He can't even pass out of double teams, so don't act like it's some brilliant strategy to allow the defense to collapse on him so he can find the open man.
> 
> SVG never trusted him enough to truly build the offense around him.


They surrounded him with 3 point shooters because he can only play close to the basket. Its exactly about the defense collapsing on him and leaving a man open on the perimeter. He'll, its the whole reason for Ryan Andersons career.

"Dwights in the paint, double him with our bigs!"

Bang. Ryan 'oversized shooting guard' Anderson for 3.


----------



## Dre

He got the lion's share of shots but when you thought Magic you didn't think "we need to stop Dwight", moreso we have to find a way to close on the perimeter and neutralize the 3 ball. 

And if we're talking shots just a couple years ago people were saying he wasn't getting nearly enough because Nelson didn't know how to get it to him


----------



## R-Star

Dre said:


> He got the lion's share of shots but when you thought Magic you didn't think "we need to stop Dwight", moreso we have to find a way to close on the perimeter and neutralize the 3 ball.
> 
> And if we're talking shots just a couple years ago people were saying he wasn't getting nearly enough because Nelson didn't know how to get it to him


He didn't get enough shots, but he was still the focal point of the team Dre.

I get what you're saying and its not a Kobe or Dirk type of focal point where you're like "We got to lock this mother ****er down and then the team goes down with him."

But focal point is focal point. Again, and I hate to bring it up twice in two consecutive posts, but Ryan Andersons career has been made on Dwight being the focal point. If he wasn't busy getting doubled in the paint, someone would actually be guarding him and he wouldn't be getting more open 3's than anyone else in the league.


----------



## Dre

R-Star said:


> They surrounded him with 3 point shooters because he can only play close to the basket. Its exactly about the defense collapsing on him and leaving a man open on the perimeter. He'll, its the whole reason for Ryan Andersons career.
> 
> "Dwights in the paint, double him with our bigs!"
> 
> Bang. Ryan 'oversized shooting guard' Anderson for 3.


I just can't agree that the offense was built around him the same way Kobe, LeBron's, prime Duncan's, Rose's teams are built around them. 

Blake Griffin might take more shots than Chris Paul does that mean the offense his built around him?


----------



## Dre

R-Star said:


> He didn't get enough shots, but he was still the focal point of the team Dre.
> 
> I get what you're saying and its not a Kobe or Dirk type of focal point where you're like "We got to lock this mother ****er down and then the team goes down with him."
> 
> But focal point is focal point. Again, and I hate to bring it up twice in two consecutive posts, but Ryan Andersons career has been made on Dwight being the focal point. If he wasn't busy getting doubled in the paint, someone would actually be guarding him and he wouldn't be getting more open 3's than anyone else in the league.


Even being a focal point is different from having the offense built around and through you.


----------



## R-Star

Dre said:


> Even being a focal point is different from having the offense built around and through you.


It was built around Dwight though. 

Dwight spends all his time in the paint, so how best to built around him role player wise?


----------



## Dre

The Magic could still whip the ball around the perimeter with Dwight single covered. Hedo and Rashard Lewis as stretch 4s were nearly as integral to exploiting the defense, especially when Hedo was balling and sort of running the offense.


----------



## R-Star

Dre said:


> The Magic could still whip the ball around the perimeter with Dwight single covered. Hedo and Rashard Lewis as stretch 4s were nearly as integral to exploiting the defense, especially when Hedo was balling and sort of running the offense.


Stretch 4's to help clear the paint for Dwight Dre.

That kind of just proves my point.


----------



## Luke

That last post was my way of saying that Dwight has never played with a better passer than Hedo Turkeyglue and now he's going to play with Steve Nash.

And the offense was more focused on the three ball than anything. Dwight was the biggest individual cog to the machine, but the 3 ball *was* the machine if that makes any sense.


----------



## Dre

Luke said:


> That last post was my way of saying that Dwight has never played with a better passer than Hedo Turkeyglue and now he's going to play with Steve Nash.
> 
> And the offense was more focused on the three ball than anything. Dwight was the biggest individual cog to the machine, but the 3 ball *was* the machine if that makes any sense.


Exactly


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> That last post was my way of saying that Dwight has never played with a better passer than Hedo Turkeyglue and now he's going to play with Steve Nash.
> 
> And the offense was more focused on the three ball than anything. Dwight was the biggest individual cog to the machine, but the 3 ball *was* the machine if that makes any sense.


I get what you're saying. But Dwight was still "The guy". It was just him and a bunch of 3 point shooters. So if hes not touching the ball, chances are its going to be a 3 attempt.


----------



## Dre

R-Star said:


> Stretch 4's to help clear the paint for Dwight Dre.
> 
> That kind of just proves my point.


But I thought you just said it was about them collapsing on him so he can whip it out 

I get that it works both ways, but overall once again Dwight might have been the vessel through which they got spacing, but that doesn't mean the offense was built through and for him, especially when they relied more on the 3 then him actually scoring. I mean at this point we can just agree to disagree though


----------



## R-Star

Dre said:


> Exactly


It was a 3 point shooting team, because it was built around Dwight to compliment him.

I'm not sure where the argument or confusion is here.


Dwight was without a doubt the offensive strategy for the whole team. They surrounded a post player with perimeter players to compliment his game. Did he not get fed the ball enough? Sure. Does that change him being the whole gameplan for offense? No.


----------



## R-Star

Dre said:


> But I thought you just said it was about them collapsing on him so he can whip it out
> 
> I get that it works both ways, but overall once again Dwight might have been the vessel through which they got spacing, but that doesn't mean the offense was built through and for him, especially when they relied more on the 3 then him actually scoring. I mean at this point we can just agree to disagree though


If you read the first half of your post, it explains that the offense was built through and around him. 

But yea, agree to disagree here it looks like.


----------



## Hyperion

R-Star said:


> We had an ok military victory when we kicked your ass when you attempted to invade us.
> 
> 1812 mother ****ers.
> 
> 
> *CA-NA-DA! CA-NA-DA!*


Ummm, America sowed up to give you liberty in 1781. That's where all of the loyalists went. Only about 1000 American soldiers did show up and most went home after seeing only a few showed. They did manage to wreck a few red coats on their way out though. You guys like being England's play thing. 

1812? Who won that one? I forget. Oh I remember. USA! USA! USA! USA! It was Avatar and that crazy marine against peaceful Americans. England was the one fighting, allied with Indians. That's why we killed all the Indians.


----------



## e-monk

the Magic used Dwight exactly like the Rockets used Hakeem in their title runs - surround him with spacers force teams to either cover down or single and see what you get - you basically couldnt run that offense without Dwight (or someone else who demanded attention down low) so guess what? he was the focus and lynch pin of the system


----------



## PauloCatarino

Hyperion said:


> Ummm, America sowed up to give you liberty in 1781. That's where all of the loyalists went. Only about 1000 American soldiers did show up and most went home after seeing only a few showed. They did manage to wreck a few red coats on their way out though. You guys like being England's play thing.
> 
> 1812? Who won that one? I forget. Oh I remember. USA! USA! USA! USA! It was Avatar and that crazy marine against peaceful Americans. England was the one fighting, allied with Indians. That's why we killed all the Indians.


WTF? why are people getting sucked on by R-Star ti discuss Canada?

A little sum-up:

1- Canada's greatest exports are Celine Dion and Bryan Adams (F!);
2- Their beer is awfull;
3- Porky's was the greatest film ever made by a Canadien;
4- Chicks are ugly;


----------



## Dre

No


----------



## Hyperion

PauloCatarino said:


> WTF? why are people getting sucked on by R-Star ti discuss Canada?
> 
> A little sum-up:
> 
> 1- Canada's greatest exports are Celine Dion and Bryan Adams (F!);
> 2- Their beer is awfull;
> 3- Porky's was the greatest film ever made by a Canadien;
> 4- Chicks are ugly;


Pam Anderson is Canadian. Or are you coming out to us?


----------



## PauloCatarino

Hyperion said:


> Pam Anderson is Canadian. Or are you coming out to us?


Pam? It's so, 90's!

You haven't done shit for a long, long time.


----------



## R-Star

PauloCatarino said:


> WTF? why are people getting sucked on by R-Star ti discuss Canada?
> 
> A little sum-up:
> 
> 1- Canada's greatest exports are Celine Dion and Bryan Adams (F!);
> 2- Their beer is awfull;
> 3- Porky's was the greatest film ever made by a Canadien;
> 4- Chicks are ugly;


Our beer is terrible and chick are ugly?

You're kicked off the reverse bandwagon. It was my idea to begin with.


----------



## seifer0406

PauloCatarino said:


> Pam? It's so, 90's!
> 
> You haven't done shit for a long, long time.


Justin Bieber is from Canada


----------



## R-Star

e-monk said:


> the Magic used Dwight exactly like the Rockets used Hakeem in their title runs - surround him with spacers force teams to either cover down or single and see what you get - you basically couldnt run that offense without Dwight (or someone else who demanded attention down low) so guess what? he was the focus and lynch pin of the system


Yep. Its common sense. 

What are they going to do without Dwight? Just line up on the 3 point line and shoot contested every time?

They have 3 point shooters because Dwight plays in the paint and demands double coverage.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Justin Bieber is from Canada


Drake.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Canada sucks Dwight Howard rules


----------



## PauloCatarino

R-Star said:


> Our beer is terrible and chick are ugly?


Yes. You guys suck.



> You're kicked off the reverse bandwagon. It was my idea to begin with.


I must comply to this. I was a Cavs fan, but R-Star was our beloved leader. And i shall obby to his commands. 

(Canada sucks just the same!)


----------



## seifer0406

I have no idea how this Canadian thing got started. Can we go back to making fun of Rashard Lewis's contract or another Otis Smith's many blunders?

How about the Gortat trade to bring back Turkoglu?


----------



## seifer0406

did anyone already mention that the Nets's offer last year was exponentially better than what the Magic ended up getting?


----------



## e-monk

which offer was that?


----------



## hobojoe

Either a non-existent one, one that involved paying Brook Lopez the max or both. No thanks.


----------



## Dre

I feel like he would've put up numbers in Orlando and been able to have been forwarded off for more than they ultimately got.


----------



## hobojoe

Dre said:


> I feel like he would've put up numbers in Orlando and been able to have been forwarded off for more than they ultimately got.


That's the best case scenario. He'd score 20+ a night in Orlando on terrible teams, but that's assuming he's healthy. You also assume teams would be lining up to pay him $20 million in a few years. Again that's a best case scenario. I'd rather not, but then again I'd rather not pay Al Harrington $22 million or whatever it is for the next 3 years.


----------



## seifer0406

e-monk said:


> which offer was that?


would've been Lopez/Brooks/6th pick and future picks, likely been able to move Glen Davis, no Harrington/Affalo.


----------



## seifer0406

hobojoe said:


> Either a non-existent one, one that involved paying Brook Lopez the max or both. No thanks.


Because paying Harrington for 3 and Affalo for 4 would be better than paying Lopez the max.

You know that the 2 of them make 14 mil next year?


----------



## MojoPin

If Orlando accepted it, then it must've been the best deal they had. What it comes down to is Orlando had very little leverage left and few teams were willing to take the risk of Dwight leaving. Simple as that. It is unquestionably a bad deal, but it is what it is. If ORL wanted to maximize their trade value they should've traded him at the deadline.


----------



## hobojoe

seifer0406 said:


> Because paying Harrington for 3 and Affalo for 4 would be better than paying Lopez the max.
> 
> You know that the 2 of them make 14 mil next year?


No I didn't know that, that's why I just mentioned Harrington's contract two posts above yours.


----------



## seifer0406

btw, it was a lose lose situation for both the Nets and Magic. It's hard to say which team got hit harder by Orlando's decision to not trade Dwight last year. Theres a good chance that the Nets situation could go horribly wrong in the next couple of years.


----------



## seifer0406

hobojoe said:


> No I didn't know that, that's why I just mentioned Harrington's contract two posts above yours.


then what is your point exactly. Explain to me how not trading Dwight was the right decision.


----------



## JonMatrix

According to Rod Thorn, Philly offered Iguodala in a Dwight deal. They had been having talking about him or Bynum for weeks.

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/08/13/rod-thorn-76ers-ceiling-andrew-bynum-dwight-howard-blockbuster-trade/


> On how they pulled off the trade for Andrew Bynum:
> 
> “It’s interesting in that we’ve been talking to the Lakers and to Orlando for the last three weeks. We’ve been talking about different deals, various deals, and it never got out. In today’s world that’s something of itself. And then it really came down to, Orlando — they did not want to keep Iguodala because they’re going in a different way. And they wanted to move him, and so they talked to a few teams and they ended up making the deal with Denver to move his contract, and that ended up making the deal. It took a while to do it but it ended up getting done.”
> 
> On if they started talking to the Magic regarding Howard:
> 
> “Initially we were talking to Orlando about Dwight Howard. That’s how it got started. And so we had conversations with them regarding him and then he wanted to go either to Brooklyn or to Los Angeles. And so the Lakers, they had been in the conversation before we were in there. And so I can’t tell you how many different conversations, and it ended up the way it ended up today.”


----------



## hobojoe

seifer0406 said:


> then what is your point exactly. Explain to me how not trading Dwight was the right decision.


Show me a post where I said I think the Magic got a good deal. Also show me something that proves the deal you posted was actually offered by the Nets and rejected by the Magic. My point is I would've rather let Dwight walk than be stuck paying Lopez the max for 4 or 5 years.


----------



## seifer0406

hobojoe said:


> Show me a post where I said I think the Magic got a good deal. Also show me something that proves the deal you posted was actually offered by the Nets and rejected by the Magic. My point is I would've rather let Dwight walk than be stuck paying Lopez the max for 4 or 5 years.


Then I don't see why you were replying my post originally. I said that the deal they got is much worse than the Nets deal and you said no thanks which implied that you rather have the current deal.


----------



## Adam

Can we just recap the events in order really fast?

Last year, Dwight to Magic: "I'm not re-signing with you. I'm leaving this team."

Magic: "You mean to play out your contract and just leave? Well, instead of trading you now and trying to take the best deal we're going to instead try and change your mind."

Dwight: "You mean I have to be the bad guy in the media?"

Magic: "Basically."

Dwight: "I can't do that. Haven't you seen my smile? In that case I will opt in for one more year."

Magic: "Okay. In that case, we won't accept the best offer on the table and just defer this problem to the summer when all the best trade opportunities have expired and we have to settle for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING."


----------



## MojoPin

Lol pretty much, pretty much

It's incompetence.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

seifer0406 said:


> Justin Bieber is from Canada


Although I pointed this out already, we shouldn't defend America TOO much when it comes to this part, I mean come on, SNOOKI CAME FROM THE USA!!


----------



## Hyperion

PauloCatarino said:


> Pam? It's so, 90's!
> 
> You haven't done shit for a long, long time.


I'm American buddy. Land of plenty.

By the way, Elisha Cuthbert is Canadian. BAM.


----------



## hobojoe

seifer0406 said:


> Then I don't see why you were replying my post originally. I said that the deal they got is much worse than the Nets deal and you said no thanks which implied that you rather have the current deal.


Which was before you posted the terms of the deal that included the unprotected 1st rounder in the 2011 draft. Even if they had done that deal, my preference would've been to unload Richardson or Turkoglu (whoever the Nets would take) and pray someone would be willing to work a sign and trade for Lopez at the end of the season, and if not let him walk. At the end of the day, you wind up with Marshon Brooks and Harrison Barnes to show for it. Is that better than Harkless, Afflalo, Vucevic and three 1st rounders? Maybe, plus you don't take back an Al Harrington. Not a slam dunk though really, and all of this of course is assuming this was actually offered to the Magic and not a baseless rumor.


----------



## Laker Freak

XxIrvingxX said:


> Although I pointed this out already, we shouldn't defend America TOO much when it comes to this part, I mean come on, SNOOKI CAME FROM THE USA!!



Snookie is from Jersey. Doesn't count.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

> Just listened to Dr. Robert Klapper, chief of orthopedic surgery at Cedar Sinai and ESPN 710's resident expert.
> 
> Some highlights:
> 
> 1. From an orthopedic surgery standpoint he would much rather have Dwight's back than Andrew's knees.
> 
> 2. The knees have a much more "chronic injury" issue than Dwight's back which is an "acute injury" that can be repaired with very little sequelae.
> 
> 3. After surgery, you can't play basketball and engage in any heavy physical activity for 4 months.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because the injury is a disc herniation: a small amount of the nucleus pulposus or the "shock absorber" of the disc got squeezed out. It is a VERY SMALL amount. You get rid of the "squirted out" material with a 1 inch incision under a microscope.
> 
> There is a 5-10 percent chance that returning to physical activity too early could herniate more material. That's obviously not good because you've reherniated the disc and have to remove more of the extruded disc.
> 
> Bear in mind that Dwight was fully recovered, pain free, and ready to work out probably a few weeks after surgery (it is only 1 inch incision after all). BUT returning to physical activity too early gets you that 5-10 percent chance. Keep in mind that means there is a 90 to 95% chance that if he came back after only a month or so he would be fine.
> 
> But he is Dwight Howard and so they are being super, super cautious.
> 
> 4. He had surgery 04/20/2012 which means he should be able to resume training, weights, basketball activity, etc around 08/20/2012 if everything goes according to schedule and he feels no pain, etc.
> 
> 5. Per Dr. Klapper, based on that schedule Dwight should be ready for opening night (10/30/2012). He'll have 2 months to get his conditioning back. Again assuming he recovers as expected and at his age and conditioning there should be NO REASON for any setbacks.
> 
> 6. Dwight will ALWAYS know he had surgery, he'll ALWAYS feel just a little different. That's unavoidable. BUT that feeling doesn't affect his ability to do what he needs to do. Per Dr. Klapper as fans we should be able to tell NO DIFFERENCE in the way he plays. He should have essentially NO difference in his skills, athleticism, etc.
> 
> 7. By way, reading some medical papers addressing the effects of laminectomy on NBA athletes, those papers support Dr. Klapper's assertion that Dwight should be back as good as new.
> 
> 8. That should answer the question why teams are still willing to kill themselves to get Dwight Howard despite this "back injury" issue. It's a non-issue moving forward. Also why he and his agent are very comfortable not extending and waiting for the end of the season to sign a new max contract. They know, all-world BEAST 3x DPOY Howard is coming back this year. With Stephen A interview, Dwight pointed out that he absolutely felt he could have won a 4th straight DPOY if he had been fully healthy. He's ready to come back and remind everyone who he is on the basketball floor. Trust me, he may be smiling but this whole Dwightmare did affect him and he's going to playing with an edge, especially on defense.
> 
> The most dominant defensive force in the NBA basically feels disrespected and the league has NO IDEA what is coming down on them from the 5 slot.
> 
> 
> Summary: If everything goes according to schedule, we should hear something by the end of August that Dwight is starting to work out again on the court, lifting, running etc.
> 
> Chances are good that he'll be ready for the start of the season.
> 
> Chances overwhelmingly good that there will be no lasting effect from this particular injury.
> 
> 
> Final point: He played with a lot of pain and discomfort when the incompetent, dumbass Magic medical staff misdiagnosed with "back spasms." He said it was more pain than he had ever experienced since he was in the league.
> 
> That's why the thing that hurt him personally the most in the media was that he was faking an injury and quitting on his team. He put up All-Star numbers last year playing with a herniated disc.
> 
> When I think of Bynum taking plays and games off and openly admitting it while Dwight is still putting up the numbers he did with an injury that ultimately required surgery and in a toxic, destructive environment . . . I think there is no doubt the sort of heart and work ethic Dwight is going to bring to our team.
> 
> Hope all of this is a bit reassuring.


http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=148925

Some good info about Dwight's back surgery.


----------



## Adam

He did quit on his team. That's not some myth. The surgery is just his red badge of courage. You're not vindicated because you found a surgeon in this country that wants to perform surgery. People have short memories around here. Can anybody remember back to as far as January when even Magic fans on this site were saying how disgusted they were with his pouting and how he was bringing the whole team down?

Obviously all this is unrelated to his basketball abilities. However, he aint gonna be some wounded warrior in the hearts of Orlando. Dude handled this exit like a bitch. Probably the worst exit I've ever seen from a team.


----------



## R-Star

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=148925
> 
> Some good info about Dwight's back surgery.


Funny. A month ago according to many Laker fans Bynums knees were fine. Now its ok to throw him under the bus and act like his knee is a ticking time bomb. Classy.

Oh well. At least we decided on consensus that back surgeries aren't a big deal.


----------



## R-Star

Adam said:


> He did quit on his team. That's not some myth. The surgery is just his red badge of courage. You're not vindicated because you found a surgeon in this country that wants to perform surgery. People have short memories around here. Can anybody remember back to as far as January when even Magic fans on this site were saying how disgusted they were with his pouting and how he was bringing the whole team down?
> 
> Obviously all this is unrelated to his basketball abilities. However, he aint gonna be some wounded warrior in the hearts of Orlando. Dude handled this exit like a bitch. Probably the worst exit I've ever seen from a team.


Dwight Howard is a piece of shit. He was a piece of shit to Laker fans not long ago too. So if any of them start pulling revisionist history bullshit, I'll put them in their place.


----------



## hobojoe

Adam said:


> He did quit on his team. That's not some myth. The surgery is just his red badge of courage. You're not vindicated because you found a surgeon in this country that wants to perform surgery. People have short memories around here. Can anybody remember back to as far as January when even Magic fans on this site were saying how disgusted they were with his pouting and how he was bringing the whole team down?
> 
> Obviously all this is unrelated to his basketball abilities. However, he aint gonna be some wounded warrior in the hearts of Orlando. Dude handled this exit like a bitch. Probably the worst exit I've ever seen from a team.


There's no doubt in my mind his back was hurting. There's also no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to be in Orlando he would've been in uniform playing 40+ minutes a night against Indiana in the playoffs. Like you said, the fact that he had surgery is no vindication to the severity of his injury at all. It's not hard to convince a surgeon to perform surgery.


----------



## R-Star

hobojoe said:


> There's no doubt in my mind his back was hurting. There's also no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to be in Orlando he would've been in uniform playing 40+ minutes a night against Indiana in the playoffs. Like you said, the fact that he had surgery is no vindication to the severity of his injury at all. It's not hard to convince a surgeon to perform surgery.


We still would have beat you.

*We're the Pacers! THE PACERS!!!!*










Imagine this, but with yellow and blue Pacers colors.


----------



## ChosenFEW

XxIrvingxX said:


> Although I pointed this out already, we shouldn't defend America TOO much when it comes to this part, I mean come on, SNOOKI CAME FROM THE USA!!


Snooki actually came from chile and was adopted if im not mistaken.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

ChosenFEW said:


> Snooki actually came from chile and was adopted if im not mistaken.


Well I'll be damned...I guess there's hope for America after all.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Adam said:


> He did quit on his team. That's not some myth. The surgery is just his red badge of courage. You're not vindicated because you found a surgeon in this country that wants to perform surgery.


Given the liability/loss of license risks involved with unnecessary surgery it would be a miracle if he could find a doctor willing to defraud Orlando's medical insurance carrier. Please take this nonsense to tinfoilhats.com where it belongs.


----------



## hobojoe

E.H. Munro said:


> Given the liability/loss of license risks involved with unnecessary surgery it would be a miracle if he could find a doctor willing to defraud Orlando's medical insurance carrier. Please take this nonsense to tinfoilhats.com where it belongs.


The necessity of surgery is not a black and white thing. Howard did not _need_ surgery, but I don't think anyone is saying it was medically irresponsible to operate on him. He clearly had an injury that could be healed by surgery. It wasn't his only option, but it was a viable one and he took it. I just don't think it's the route he would've taken had the circumstances been different.


----------



## Dre

Agreed

If he would've stayed with Orlando he might not have come back this season....with LA he's going to bust his ass and probably be back in November.


----------



## Hyperion

Adam said:


> He did quit on his team. That's not some myth. The surgery is just his red badge of courage. You're not vindicated because you found a surgeon in this country that wants to perform surgery. People have short memories around here. Can anybody remember back to as far as January when even Magic fans on this site were saying how disgusted they were with his pouting and how he was bringing the whole team down?
> 
> Obviously all this is unrelated to his basketball abilities. However, he aint gonna be some wounded warrior in the hearts of Orlando. Dude handled this exit like a bitch. Probably the worst exit I've ever seen from a team.


Lebron, Carter, Rose were all worse.


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> Lebron, Carter, Rose were all worse.


No. They weren't. Especially Rose.

How the **** is he worse? His team shut him down. Dwight quit on his team. Not the same. 


Your absolute insistence on defending Dwight no matter what is becoming, well, weird.


----------



## Hyperion

He put up 20 and 14.5. I've like it if all players quit like that. I was referring to Rose in Toronto.


----------



## hobojoe

Of those three, Wince's exit from Toronto is the only one even close to comparable. Still not as bad IMO.


----------



## R-Star

hobojoe said:


> Of those three, Wince's exit from Toronto is the only one even close to comparable. Still not as bad IMO.


Not nearly as bad. Vince was just a pussy who got his feelings hurt. He didn't **** his team over nearly in the same manner Dwight did.


Hyperion just really, _reallllllly_ loves Dwight for some reason. I think he's hypnotized by the smile.


----------



## Dee-Zy

How the hell did Jalen Rose get in that discussion!?!?


----------



## R-Star

Hyperion said:


> He put up 20 and 14.5. I've like it if all players quit like that. I was referring to Rose in Toronto.


Rose in Toronto? Who ****ing cares? I don't even remember that at all. 

Point being, you're being ridiculous again when it comes to Dwight.


----------



## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> Rose in Toronto? Who ****ing cares? I don't even remember that at all.


You don't remember Kobe hanging 81 on him? Let me refresh your memory.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

R-Star said:


> Funny. A month ago according to many Laker fans Bynums knees were fine. Now its ok to throw him under the bus and act like his knee is a ticking time bomb. Classy.
> 
> Oh well. At least we decided on consensus that back surgeries aren't a big deal.


Your use of scarecrow arguments is impeccable. Saying that Howard's back is a lower risk than Bynum's knees is far from the same as referring to Andrew's knees as a "ticking time bomb".

But carry on...carry on...


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Hyperion said:


> Lebron, Carter, Rose were all worse.


Lebron's was not worse in any possible way. Sure we definitely took a bigger blow then Orlando will ever take but Lebron didn't handle it as badly. In fact the only horrible thing he did was the decision show. Trust me this is all coming from a Cleveland fan so I know the feeling of when he left us high and dry, and how we were all mad at him for it, it was no where close to being as bad as the way Howard has handled both this off season and the last year he spent in Orlando.


----------



## e-monk

you didnt think the fact that he lead the Cavs on until the bitter end well into the negotiation period despite the fact that he knews weeks, months or perhaps even years ahead of his decision wasnt kind of douchey?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

e-monk said:


> you didnt think the fact that he lead the Cavs on until the bitter end well into the negotiation period *despite the fact that he knews weeks, months or perhaps even years ahead of his decision* wasnt kind of douchey?


Wanna explain how the hell you know that? Because as far as I'm concerned that is complete bullshit. That's the kind of shit you hear from people who are purposely trolling just to give people a reason to hate Lebron more.


----------



## e-monk

XxIrvingxX said:


> Wanna explain how the hell you know that? Because as far as I'm concerned that is complete bullshit. That's the kind of shit you hear from people who are purposely trolling just to give people a reason to hate Lebron more.


or from people who tell you straight to your face that they talked about joining forces way back when they were buddies on the 2008 olympic team?


----------



## Bogg

XxIrvingxX said:


> Wanna explain how the hell you know that? Because as far as I'm concerned that is complete bullshit. That's the kind of shit you hear from people who are purposely trolling just to give people a reason to hate Lebron more.


Riley and Wade knew something was up. Riley gutted the team to create cap space, in the process making the Heat terrible, right when his star player's contract was expiring, and Wade never made a peep about the team wasting two years of his prime. No elite talent quietly does along with management's plan of tearing everything down in his late twenties on the promise of "cap space". If Wade knew he could get Bosh to come to town and had been recruiting Lebron behind the scenes for two years? That actually makes sense.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Who cares? Cleveland had seven years to build around James and what they built was a 20 win team. More or less what they had when James showed up. If the Cavs couldn't figure out that they'd constructed a terrible team around James, and elected to try and re-sign him anyway, that's more shitty management than anything else.


----------



## Adam

Bogg said:


> Riley and Wade knew something was up. *Riley gutted the team* to create cap space, in the process making the Heat terrible, right when his star player's contract was expiring, and Wade never made a peep about the team wasting two years of his prime. No elite talent quietly does along with management's plan of tearing everything down in his late twenties on the promise of "cap space". If Wade knew he could get Bosh to come to town and had been recruiting Lebron behind the scenes for two years? That actually makes sense.


The Heat assembled their team and their contracts to expire for 2010 cap space since back in 2005. You don't know what you're talking about. It's not some conspiracy that Wade and LeBron came into the league at the same time so they signed the exact same contracts so the Heat, like one of the few non-incompetent organizations, wanted cap space when Dwyane had an out. The Mavs are another team that actually pays attention to when their contracts expire and they stagger their expirings to give themselves options.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

e-monk said:


> or from people who tell you straight to your face that they talked about joining forces way back when they were buddies on the 2008 olympic team?


So you're telling me they all agreed at the 2008 olympics that they were going to join forces in Miami once their contracts were up??

Yea no I'm not buying it. I'll admit I did read your original comment wrong, I agree that they did talk about it. But Lebron definitely didn't make that choice to actually do it until at least a week before his infamous show the decision.


----------



## JonMatrix

Vince Carter completely mailed it in before he left Toronto. Dude was night and day from Toronto to New Jersey that year. He even admitted he as much to John Thompson.






Scroll to 5:53
The fact that the Magic took a shot on this guy in 2010 further illustrates their incompetence. Names and people change over the years, but the shitty management skills remain the same.
--------

Looking forward to seeing how Bynum does in Philly. Here's how I see the East this year:

1.Heat
2.Nets
3.Pacers
4.Knicks
5.Sixers
6.Celtics
7.Bulls
8.Almost anybody except for Charlotte

-The Bulls are supposedly going to be without Rose for most of the season. But I think if anyone else misses significant time (Noah,Deng) and they fall out of the playoff face, Rose sits the whole year. 
-If anything happens to Jennings or Ellis, the Bucks are screwed. A bad start probably means Skiles is the first coach fired this year.
-The Hawks are clearing cap room for next summer, but they might still have enough with Teague, Smith, and Horford to make a playoff push.
-The Cavs started off well last year before everybody got hurt.
-The Wizards are the trendy pick to make the playoffs. They definitely upgraded, but if Beal isn't ready or if he gets hurt..then their best shooter is Trevor Ariza.


----------



## Bogg

Adam said:


> The Heat assembled their team and their contracts to expire for 2010 cap space since back in 2005. You don't know what you're talking about. It's not some conspiracy that Wade and LeBron came into the league at the same time so they signed the exact same contracts so the Heat, like one of the few non-incompetent organizations, wanted cap space when Dwyane had an out. The Mavs are another team that actually pays attention to when their contracts expire and they stagger their expirings to give themselves options.


So you're saying that Lebron really did make up his mind the morning of the decision, like he said?


----------



## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> Who cares? Cleveland had seven years to build around James and what they built was a 20 win team. More or less what they had when James showed up. If the Cavs couldn't figure out that they'd constructed a terrible team around James, and elected to try and re-sign him anyway, that's more shitty management than anything else.


I'm not saying that James was wrong for leaving, but I am saying that recruitment of him began well before July 1. I'm not upset about it, but I'm not going to pretend that it was all one happy accident either.


----------



## Dee-Zy

I'm still mezmorized as to how Jalen Rose came into this conversation...


----------



## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> I'm not saying that James was wrong for leaving, but I am saying that recruitment of him began well before July 1. I'm not upset about it, but I'm not going to pretend that it was all one happy accident either.


Yeah, but if Cleveland had put a good team around him it would never have been issue as he probably wouldn't have left.I pointed this out a few pages ago, but in the 2004 draft Phoenix sold their pick for $3 million and an unprotected first and when Cleveland was on the board Josh Smith was sitting right there (and it's not like Josh Smith was unheralded, most mocks had him as a top 10 pick, even I had him going #9 to Philly). Cleveland could have walked out of that draft with Iguodala & Josh Smith, and James would still be playing there.


----------



## e-monk

XxIrvingxX said:


> So you're telling me they all agreed at the 2008 olympics that they were going to join forces in Miami once their contracts were up??
> 
> Yea no I'm not buying it. I'll admit I did read your original comment wrong, I agree that they did talk about it. But Lebron definitely didn't make that choice to actually do it until at least a week before his infamous show the decision.


they literally have been on record as saying they talked about joining forces during those olympics - did they come right out and say 'in Miami'? no that would be a bridge too far collusion wise but use your noggin - complete the following sentence

wouldnt it be cool if we all got together and played on the same team and we could all live in:

a) Cleveland
b) Toronto
c) take our talents to South Beach


----------



## Adam

e-monk said:


> they literally have been on record as saying they talked about joining forces during those olympics - did they come right out and say 'in Miami'? no that would be a bridge too far collusion wise but use your noggin - complete the following sentence
> 
> wouldnt it be cool if we all got together and played on the same team and we could all live in:
> 
> a) Cleveland
> b) Toronto
> c) take our talents to South Beach


I'm sure they did talk about it, but the fact Miami was going to have cap space was already set and very fortunate for us. We didn't plan our cap space for exactly what happened and they didn't plan for it to be in Miami they joined up. We planned to have cap space in 2010 since as far back in 2005 and when you plan to be a player in free agency you're obviously open to signing the best players. And for the record, Miami did it the right way. We didn't dump salary in an all or nothing bid for LeBron like New York and Chicago did or gut the team like Bogg suggested. We played out every season and made smart decisions without sacrificing our cap space and we won nearly 50 games.


----------



## e-monk

Adam said:


> I'm sure they did talk about it, but the fact Miami was going to have cap space was already set and very fortunate for us. We didn't plan our cap space for exactly what happened and they didn't plan for it to be in Miami they joined up. We planned to have cap space in 2010 since as far back in 2005 and when you plan to be a player in free agency you're obviously open to signing the best players. And for the record, Miami did it the right way. We didn't dump salary in an all or nothing bid for LeBron like New York and Chicago did or gut the team like Bogg suggested. We played out every season and made smart decisions without sacrificing our cap space and we won nearly 50 games.


I think the question at stake is whether and when Lebron knew he was going somewhere (to my original point with xxxirvingxxx) - I dont think the Heat did much of anything wrong although Riles may have been feeling pretty smug going into the summer if wade had a chance to whisper in his ear


----------



## e-monk

Bosh: it's cold as tits in Toronto
Lebron: Cleveland's close to my home town
Wade: Fine fine bitches

Bosh: Canada is the home of Justin Beiber
Lebron: the Cavs organization is ridiculously inept
Wade: Pat Riley and fine fine bitches

Bosh: did you know canada is a foreign country? I had to get a passport
Lebron: the weather in Cleveland is nice for about 6 weeks of the year
Wade: this is what a ring looks like oh and here are some pictures of some fine fine bitches wearing G-strings - do they have G-strings in Cleveland?


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## Adam

e-monk said:


> I think the question at stake is whether and when Lebron knew he was going somewhere (to my original point with xxxirvingxxx) - I dont think the Heat did much of anything wrong although Riles may have been feeling pretty smug going into the summer if wade had a chance to whisper in his ear


But of course he didn't. He knew his options, returning to Cleveland or joining a "super team," and he probably didn't decide until the end. You people give him way too much credit to think he masterminded some scheme months in advance. I think he honestly tried to win a championship in Cleveland and when that failed he was out the door.


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## e-monk

Adam said:


> But of course he didn't. He knew his options, returning to Cleveland or joining a "super team," and he probably didn't decide until the end. You people give him way too much credit to think he masterminded some scheme months in advance. I think he honestly tried to win a championship in Cleveland and when that failed he was out the door.


wait... "of course"? I'm sorry he was talking to his friends about the idea two years before he had to make the decision but he had no idea until the morning of the decision which way he was heading? no idea whatsoever? he just woke up and pulled out his ouija board that very morning and boom!

"of course"


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## Diable

this thread has jumped the shark way too many times for me to follow


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## Adam

e-monk said:


> wait... "of course"? I'm sorry he was talking to his friends about the idea two years before he had to make the decision but he had no idea until the morning of the decision which way he was heading? no idea whatsoever? he just woke up and pulled out his ouija board that very morning and boom!
> 
> "of course"


Don't obfuscate. The thought was there, the decision is another matter. He knew his options but he did not decide until after Cleveland got bounced again. If Cleveland had won a championship I doubt he would have left.


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## GrandKenyon6

Doesn't Rob Hennigan already deserve to be fired? What the hell is he doing?

He traded Ryan Anderson, the NBA's Most Improved Player, for some guy named Gustavo, he re-signed Jameer Nelson for 3 years at over $6.5 million a year, and he traded Dwight Howard for the worst package he possibly could have taken. Orlando only got conditional draft picks from 3 likely playoff teams, took on multi-year salaries in Arron Afflalo (who is now probably the team's best player) and Al Harrington, and got no good young prospects. They got a $17 million trade exception, but what's the likelihood that it actually gets used? You see trade exceptions expire without being used all the time. Even if it does get used, what's the likelihood it gets them a player or prospect better than Andrew Bynum or even Brook Lopez? I'd say it's about 5%. Three All-Stars were traded in this deal with Orlando sending out far and away the best player and not getting either of the other two star players back. That makes sense? How was that better for them in any way than what the Rockets were offering or what the Nets were offering? Did they just not want to deal with Brooklyn to spite Dwight?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

e-monk said:


> they literally have been on record as saying they talked about joining forces during those olympics - did they come right out and say 'in Miami'? no that would be a bridge too far collusion wise but use your noggin - complete the following sentence
> 
> wouldnt it be cool if we all got together and played on the same team and we could all live in:
> 
> a) Cleveland
> b) Toronto
> c) take our talents to South Beach


They talked about it I'm sure, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't something they were being serious about. Bosh joining forces with Wade? Sure. But Lebron taking part in it depended entirely on how well he would've done with the Cavs, and as we all know, James did well, but the Cavs themselves didn't. And even after Cleveland didn't win, there were obviously other options for Lebron. Hell he went to every team meeting for all the teams he could've joined so clearly he wasn't just considering Cleveland or Miami. There were other options involved.

I personally think the Bulls were the best option for him but it is what it is.

Edit: Don't take that first sentence seriously (oh the irony), I'm pretty sure he was being serious I actually have no clue why I typed that lol.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> Yeah, but if Cleveland had put a good team around him it would never have been issue as he probably wouldn't have left.I pointed this out a few pages ago, but in the 2004 draft Phoenix sold their pick for $3 million and an unprotected first and when Cleveland was on the board Josh Smith was sitting right there (and it's not like Josh Smith was unheralded, most mocks had him as a top 10 pick, even I had him going #9 to Philly). Cleveland could have walked out of that draft with Iguodala & Josh Smith, and James would still be playing there.


Well, yea, sure, it's why I said I'm not mad about him leaving Cleveland. They did a bad job, and he wanted to win championships. I'm not saying he conspired to screw over potential dynasty in Cleveland or anything, just that he was talking to Wade, at least, about coming to Miami well before July of 2010, and it's highly likely Wade conveyed that information in private to Riley. It is what it is, with how connected everyone is and how friendly this current group of stars are with each other, it's crazy to think they don't speak in private about off-season maneuverings. 



Adam said:


> And for the record, Miami did it the right way. We didn't dump salary in an all or nothing bid for LeBron like New York and Chicago did or gut the team like Bogg suggested.


Miami won 47 games in 09-10 because Wade had a monster season in a year the East had a few good teams and a ton of garbage(Charlotte won nearly as many games). Pat Riley fielded a team, with a top-five player in his prime, on which the second best player was a broken-down Jermaine O'neal. Miami had almost nobody under contract the following summer. They absolutely cleared out salary, and Riley wouldn't have done it unless he was very confident he could get multiple high-level players alongside Wade the summer of 2010. I mean, we're going to act like a big three that involves old Jermaine O'neal and Mike Beasley at any point is the best Riley can do if he's trying?


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## GrandKenyon6

Check out the protections on the picks Orlando is receiving



> 2014 first-round pick from the Denver Nuggets
> The Nuggets have two first-round picks in 2014: their own pick and a pick from the New York Knicks. The Magic will receive the less favorable of the two picks.
> 
> One future first-round pick from the Philadelphia 76ers
> This pick is tied to a previous trade between the Sixers and the Miami Heat, and the Magic cannot receive the pick from the Sixers from the Howard deal until the Sixers satisfy their prior commitment to the Heat.
> 
> Here’s the CliffsNotes version:
> • If the Sixers make the playoffs in 2012-13, the Magic will receive a protected Sixers first-round pick in 2015.
> • If the Sixers don’t make the playoffs until 2013-14, the Magic will receive a protected Sixers first-round pick in 2016.
> • Even if the Sixers still haven’t made the playoffs by 2014-15, the Magic will receive a protected Sixers first-round pick in 2017.
> 
> Now, remember that the pick the Magic are getting will be protected. Here are the terms of that protection:
> • 2015 draft: The Magic will receive the pick if it falls from 15th overall to 30th overall. If the pick falls from first overall to 14th overall, Philly will keep the pick and Orlando instead will receive a protected first-round pick in 2016.
> 
> • 2016 draft: The Magic will receive the pick if it falls from 15th overall to 30th overall. If the pick falls from first overall to 14th overall, Philly will keep the pick and Orlando instead will receive a protected first-round pick in 2017.
> 
> • 2017 draft: The Magic will receive the pick if it falls from 12th overall to 30th overall. If the pick falls from first overall to 11th overall, Philly will keep the pick and Orlando instead will receive a protected first-round pick in 2018.
> 
> • 2018 draft: The Magic will keep the pick if it falls from ninth overall to 30th overall. If the pick falls from first overall to eighth overall, Philly will keep the pick and Orlando instead will receive a second-round pick in 2018 and a second-round pick in 2019. (Why would the Magic forfeit a first-round pick? Because the new CBA prohibits teams from trading a first-round pick seven years out.)
> 
> One future first-round pick from the Lakers
> This pick is tied to the Lakers’ sign-and-trade deal with the Phoenix Suns for Steve Nash, and the Magic cannot receive the Lakers’ first-round pick until the Lakers satisfy their obligation to the Suns.
> 
> That said, the only way the Magic don’t get a protected pick from the Lakers for the 2017 draft is if the Lakers are terrible in 2012-13 and fail to make the playoffs. That’s not going to happen.
> 
> But if the Lakers don’t make the playoffs until 2013-14, the Magic would get a Lakers’ protected first-round pick in 2018. If by some miracle the Lakers don’t make the playoffs in any of the next three seasons, the Magic would not get a first-round pick from the Lakers and instead would get the Lakers’ second-round pick in 2017 and the Lakers’ second-round pick in 2018 because of the CBA rule that prevents a team from trading a first-round pick seven years out.
> 
> Here are the protection terms:
> • 2017 draft: The Magic will receive the pick if it falls from sixth overall to 30th overall. If the pick falls from first overall to fifth overall, L.A. will keep the pick and Orlando instead will receive a protected first-round pick in 2018.
> 
> • 2018 draft: The Magic will receive the pick if it falls from sixth overall to 30th overall. If the pick falls from first overall to fifth overall, L.A. will keep the pick and Orlando instead will receive a first-round pick in 2019.
> 
> • 2019 draft: Unprotected. The Magic will receive the pick no matter what it falls.
> 
> 2013 second-round pick from the Nuggets
> This pick originally belonged to the Golden State Warriors, so the picks place in the second round will be determined by how the Warriors finish during the 2012-13 season.
> 
> 2015 second-round pick from the Lakers
> The Lakers will keep the pick if it falls from 31st overall to 40th overall. If that occurs, the pick disappears and the Magic won’t receive a second-round pick from the Lakers.


Those are some pretty darn heavily protected picks. Otis Smith would have done a better job than this.


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## Sliccat

GrandKenyon6 said:


> Check out the protections on the picks Orlando is receiving
> 
> 
> 
> Those are some pretty darn heavily protected picks. Otis Smith would have done a better job than this.


Please. Otis Smith would've taken most over paid players he could have found. He'd have ended up with, like, Aaron Afflalo and Al Harrington.


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## Adam

Bogg said:


> Miami won 47 games in 09-10 because Wade had a monster season in a year the East had a few good teams and a ton of garbage(Charlotte won nearly as many games). Pat Riley fielded a team, with a top-five player in his prime, on which the second best player was a broken-down Jermaine O'neal. Miami had almost nobody under contract the following summer. They absolutely cleared out salary, and Riley wouldn't have done it unless he was very confident he could get multiple high-level players alongside Wade the summer of 2010. I mean, we're going to act like a big three that involves old Jermaine O'neal and Mike Beasley at any point is the best Riley can do if he's trying?


The Heat were planning for 2010 free agency as far back as 2005 when they committed to Shaq and gave him a deal expiring in 2010 for $20 million. Wade lined up with that expiring in 2010 for another $15 million. The Heat were preparing for 2010 for years. Riley once said how upset he was when we didn't re-sign Kapono but we couldn't because it didn't fit our plan and it was too long-term. Don't talk about building a team like it's so easy and you just make moves to win so simply while maintaining your fiscal responsibility. Riley flipped Marion who was a huge expiring in 2009 for Jermaine O'Neal's deal which ran another year at around $20 million, just to give us a center we desperately needed and we won 47 games. And you've abandoned your bullshit statement that Riley "gutted" the roster.


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## Bogg

Adam said:


> The Heat were planning for 2010 free agency as far back as 2005 when they committed to Shaq and gave him a deal expiring in 2010 for $20 million. Wade lined up with that expiring in 2010 for another $15 million. The Heat were preparing for 2010 for years. Riley once said how upset he was when we didn't re-sign Kapono but we couldn't because it didn't fit our plan and it was too long-term. Don't talk about building a team like it's so easy and you just make moves to win so simply while maintaining your fiscal responsibility. Riley flipped Marion who was a huge expiring in 2009 for Jermaine O'Neal's deal which ran another year at around $20 million, just to give us a center we desperately needed and we won 47 games. And you've abandoned your bullshit statement that Riley "gutted" the roster.


You do understand that my whole argument is also that cap space in 2010 was Riley's plan, right? Half of what you just typed doesn't even disagree with me. Yea, he absolutely flipped Marion for a wildly overpaid O'neal. Partially because the team needed a center, and partially because they needed to tie up a whole bunch of money for one more year and one more year only. They allowed guys to walk and avoided bringing in any long-term money, essentially tearing down the team for cap space to rebuild through free agency......and it clearly worked. Miami placed their hopes on the 2010 free agent class as much as any other team that year, only they had the better plan. I'm not quite sure why this in controversial.


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## E.H. Munro

In fairness they attempted to sign Boozer in the year before but he went to Chicago instead.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> In fairness they attempted to sign Boozer in the year before but he went to Chicago instead.


Boozer went to Chicago in 2010. Do you mean Odom? If you do, all they were able to offer was the MLE, and if you can get younger, sane-ish Lamar Odom for $6 million a year you obviously do that.

EDIT: Wait, no, I think you may be right.


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## Adam

Bogg said:


> You do understand that my whole argument is also that cap space in 2010 was Riley's plan, right? Half of what you just typed doesn't even disagree with me. Yea, he absolutely flipped Marion for a wildly overpaid O'neal. Partially because the team needed a center, and partially because they needed to tie up a whole bunch of money for one more year and one more year only. They allowed guys to walk and avoided bringing in any long-term money, essentially tearing down the team for cap space to rebuild through free agency......and it clearly worked. Miami placed their hopes on the 2010 free agent class as much as any other team that year, only they had the better plan. I'm not quite sure why this in controversial.


You do understand that your argument was that Riley gutted the team because he "knew something was up." Don't backpedal too far from that statement. I'm giving you the truth that Riley was practicing a 2010 fiscal plan since 2005.



E.H. Munro said:


> In fairness they attempted to sign Boozer in the year before but he went to Chicago instead.


Did you google this or was this a rumor floating around the sports bars of West Palm Beach? It was Odom for the mid-level, and the Heat never wanted Boozer.


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## R-Star

If the Lakers continue to underperform and don't accomplish much come playoff time, is there any chance Dwight Dwight's the Lakers?


----------



## Hyperion

No, because he now knows celebrities and therefore is a celebrity. Where else will he play ball? It's not like the scenery gets much better than LA in terms of NBA markets.


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## Diable

I'd be wary of applying logic in an effort to deduce what Howard might do next. Nothing he's done lately would convince me that you could make sense of his future intentions.


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## e-monk

let's put it this way - it would be in his best interest fiscally to stay put and he seems enamored anyway but who knows


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## Jace

He'll stay no matter what. Regardless of victory, he'll be too in love with the idea of being the principle star of the Lakers once Kobe's done.


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## RollWithEm

I'd say the percentage chance he leaves L.A. is less than 5%.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Money talks and we can offer him the most.


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## letsgoceltics

Looking back at this trade and reading posts is really shocking after the fact. To a large extent, the Magic won this trade.

Nuggets main piece was Iggy. Gone.
Lakers' main piece was Dwight Howard. Gone.
Bynum? Gone before he arrived.

Amazing.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Dwight to Lakers pending approval*



Floods said:


> No Gasol = home run for LA. I think I'd still take Miami in a series though.
> 
> Philly did great too. I can see them being the atlantic champions.


Lakers barely made the playoffs and Bynum is the NBA's Carl Pavano.


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## letsgoceltics

All 3 are rebuilding.


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## E.H. Munro

The texts in this story are the funniest thing I've read in a while. It took me a moment to work out which of these two was the 16 year old girl. Judging from the photo below, Dwight may have a problem (a legal one, that is).


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## Kreutz35

Man, if you're gonna ruin your life by doing a 16 year old, at least pick an attractive 16 year old....


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## R-Star

I hate Dwight, but even I'm going to play the wait and see approach on this. 

If I'm Dwight, why am I hooking up with an unattractive 16 year old? All any of the pictures show is her grabbing his arm in a probably pre meditated photo opp.


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## Diable

Damn is this dope really alone in a hotel room with underaged girls? I never thought the guy was bright, but you got to realize that this is stupid all by itself. You don't have to do anything for that to bite you in the ass.


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## Jamel Irief

Why did you bump this thread instead of making a new one?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> I hate Dwight, but even I'm going to play the wait and see approach on this.
> 
> If I'm Dwight, why am I hooking up with an unattractive 16 year old? All any of the pictures show is her grabbing his arm in a probably pre meditated photo opp.


Agreed. No proof of anything, yet.


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## hobojoe

R-Star said:


> I hate Dwight, but even I'm going to play the wait and see approach on this.
> 
> If I'm Dwight, why am I hooking up with an unattractive 16 year old? All any of the pictures show is her grabbing his arm in a probably pre meditated photo opp.


I'm not going to assume anything to be true yet, but a guy with like 8 kids under the age of 6 with 8 different mothers doesn't really get the benefit of the doubt in my book when it comes to making wise sexual decisions. Why would he be hooking up with an unattractive 16 year old? No clue, but he's clearly an idiot.


----------



## R-Star

hobojoe said:


> I'm not going to assume anything to be true yet, but a guy with like 8 kids under the age of 6 with 8 different mothers doesn't really get the benefit of the doubt in my book when it comes to making wise sexual decisions. Why would he be hooking up with an unattractive 16 year old? No clue, but he's clearly an idiot.


He has 8 kids?


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## Porn Player

If she was attractive, maybe. She is a ****ing dog and these pictures show nothing. This is a nothing story and makes me sad about the NBA today. And I hate Dwight.


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## hobojoe

R-Star said:


> He has 8 kids?


Allegedly, yes.


----------



## Marcus13

R-Star said:


> He has 8 kids?


According to one of his baby mother's, Royce Reed, yes.

His other baby mother, Daisy Lopez, says she only knew about six.


----------



## R-Star

Royce Reed? Royce isn't a girls name. I even hate the chicks this clown sleeps with. 

Royce...... **** you lady. **** you.


----------



## Dissonance

Dwight will **** anything that moves and they'll have his kids. Sick **** if this is true.


----------



## R-Star

If this turns out to be true, I wonder how the league responds. 

Old man racism is a no no. Statchatory rape is no big whoop though?


----------



## MemphisX




----------



## R-Star

I wish that was a picture of the real R Kelly.


----------



## Dissonance




----------



## hroz

Looks photo shopped. 

She's holding his hand and in the mirror you see no reflection of Dwight well positioned imaging don't get me wrong. Plus he is in his training gear who meets a girl in their training gear.

He is laughing at the wall if he was watching TV maybe I could believe that laugh.


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## E.H. Munro

hroz said:


> Plus he is in his training gear who meets a girl in their training gear.


Dwight, apparently.


----------



## hroz

I maintain that's photo shop in the photo where he is laughing he doesn't even seem aware the girl is there.


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## Pablo5

hroz said:


> I maintain that's photo shop in the photo where he is laughing he doesn't even seem aware the girl is there.


Look in the mirror. To see people waste two minutes on this tells you how pathetic our society is.


----------



## R-Star

Pablo5 said:


> Look in the mirror. To see people waste two minutes on this tells you how pathetic our society is.


Agreed 100% 

If a 28 year old is having sex with a 16 year old its no big deal. In fact, you support that right Pablo?


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## Pablo5

R-Star said:


> Agreed 100%
> 
> *If* a 28 year old is having sex with a 16 year old its no big deal. In fact, you support that right Pablo?


Show me a reliable source then we can have a discussion. I doubt that you even know what MTO is.


----------



## R-Star

Pablo5 said:


> Show me a reliable source then we can have a discussion. I doubt that you even know what MTO is.


Show me one person who's condemned Dwight in this thread.

No? Not 1 person. There's just idle discussion on a news story?

I'll say again then, shut the **** up Pablo.


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## Pablo5

R-Star said:


> Show me one person who's condemned Dwight in this thread.
> 
> No? Not 1 person. There's just idle discussion on a news story?
> 
> I'll say again then, shut the **** up Pablo.


Blowing smoke out your ass, is just as bad as, condemning someone without a proper source. Is it not? But being that you're the idiot throwing IF's around after looking at a photoshopped picture I would expect you to start moon walking after being called out.


----------



## R-Star

Pablo5 said:


> Blowing smoke out your ass, is just as bad as, condemning someone without a proper source. Is it not? But being that you're the idiot throwing IF's around after looking at a photoshopped picture I would expect you to start moon walking after being called out.


You should probably actually read the thread, seeing as how I said I didn't believe the story and that the photo looked staged. 

But hey, keep at it Pablo. You're doing great. 

:laugh:

Oh, not posting in the thread anymore? That's too bad.


----------



## e-monk

Pablo's feisty - _get him _Pablo!


----------



## R-Star

e-monk said:


> Pablo's feisty - _get him _Pablo!


Don't hold your breath.


----------



## Hyperion

hobojoe said:


> I'm not going to assume anything to be true yet, but a guy with like 8 kids under the age of 6 with 8 different mothers doesn't really get the benefit of the doubt in my book when it comes to making wise sexual decisions. Why would he be hooking up with an unattractive 16 year old? No clue, but he's clearly an idiot.


In his defense, he was living in Orlando, I'm surprised he doesn't have more. But yes, 8 kids in 6 years. I also wouldn't doubt this is a true story. Some mildly attractive girl almost ruined Kobe (because of the rape) It makes no sense. These guys do sleep with models but they will sleep with almost anyone.


----------



## Adam

Why would Dwight be saying, "You played me and you don't even know my real age." Whoever faked this couldn't even keep track of who's who in a two person dialogue. Did nobody else even notice?


----------



## R-Star

Adam said:


> Why would Dwight be saying, "You played me and you don't even know my real age." Whoever faked this couldn't even keep track of who's who in a two person dialogue. Did nobody else even notice?


Supposedly thats the chick and then the reply is Dwight?

I don't know, I remember finding that extremely confusing yesterday when I read it as well. 

Although I can't understand half the shit my friends wives say on facebook these days either so maybe its just me. 

U no thay cant talk 4 shit ; )


----------



## Jamel Irief

Lance Stephenson blowing in lebrons ear is compelling drama. 

I wondered why Munro bumped a legit Dwight thread that had nothing to do with this instead of posting a new one. But I think it's to avoid having to move this to ebb.


----------



## LeGoat06

She really does look like a 16 year old Colin Kaepernick. Same dick nose and all.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Jamel Irief said:


> I wondered why Munro bumped a legit Dwight thread that had nothing to do with this instead of posting a new one. But I think it's to avoid having to move this to ebb.


Because I really really hate Dwight Howard and this was more fun.


----------

