# Paxson scouting Hibbert



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

> Hibbert is the latest member of a long line of big men who have been the foundation of Georgetown's long success. The Maryland native and preseason conference player of the year decided to return for his senior season in hopes of reaching the ultimate college pinnacle. But along the way, he is being trailed by NBA scouts, whose ranks at Allstate Arena included Bulls operations chief John Paxson.


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/732203,CST-SPT-demon09.article


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## rasalpool (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

Hibbert is the next Brendan Haywood


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



rasalpool said:


> Hibbert is the next Brendan Haywood


I'd rather have Brendan Haywood than Ben "the Albatross" Wallace.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



rasalpool said:


> Hibbert is the next Brendan Haywood


Huh?

Dominating Mr. Gray
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vs. Louisville
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Highlights -- mostly fluff
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My only concern with Hibbert is lateral quickness. He is good on the screen and roll and has range out to about 20'. Has good footwork in the low post and a soft touch around the basket. Is a good rebounder and does box out (a lost skill). Decent defender, but does have size to not get backed down. Probably below average on the help side but he does block shots.

I was really hoping he declared last season, as I thought we had a realistic shot at him in a top heavy and big heavy draft. I'll want him again this year if he slips (I expect him to go top 7).


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

Hibbert will be in the league for a long time only because thats what happens when your 7 feet and average.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



thebizkit69u said:


> Hibbert will be in the league for a long time only because thats what happens when your 7 feet and average.


What is your definition of average?

I don't think Hibbert will be as good as Dwight Howard. However I could see him putting up 16-18 & 9-11 rpg type numbers in his prime. I'd only put him a small notch below Aldridge mainly because Aldridge is a little better defender, despite the difference in size.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

Hibbert sure didn't impress me any last year, but I'd prefer him to the "Joke" we drafted instead.


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## rasalpool (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



Rhyder said:


> Huh?
> 
> Dominating Mr. Gray
> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t7ifVJV8tow&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t7ifVJV8tow&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
> ...



He also averaging a whooping 12 points per game and 7 rebounds per game . I would stop supporting the Bulls if they Got another Talentless Big Man again


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



rasalpool said:


> He also averaging a whooping 12 points per game and 7 rebounds per game . I would stop supporting the Bulls if they Got another Talentless Big Man again


Yes, I don't expect Hibbert to be a superstar. What superstars do you think the Bulls will pass up in favor of Hibbert? What superstars did they pass up in favor of Noah?

Georgetown is going for something bigger than feeding their best big man the ball. Hibbert is a liability on D against teams without a true C because he isn't very good on help D and can't keep up with smaller faster players. This gets him pulled from the floor due to matchups. In the NBA, I can't think of many teams where Hibbert wouldn't be able to match up against someone.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

I like the look of him. I'll take any non 6'7 C out there.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

Having Hibbert, Gray and Noah as options at Center would be good.

C Hibbert/Gray
PF Noah/TT

would give you a lot of different looks C/PF.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

There seems to be a wide divergence of opion on Hibbert. I've seen mocks list him anywhere from #6 to #12 to out of the lotto.

My gut is that no matter how well he does during the season, he will test mediocre (or worse) at the combine and fall out of the top 10. If he winds up on a team with a good conditioning program, he *might* be a steal.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

Hibbert is playing in a system that shares the basketball. Since most fans don't understand the ability to play in the post, they don't know what Hibbert can do. Like Ewing, Mutombo and Mourning before him, Hibbert will be better in the pros, because he learned how to do everything while at Georgetown, not just score.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

I don't think we need a post player at all in the next draft. Noah at C, and Tyrus at PF should be the future. We need to get rid of both Bens, and get a worthwhile SG. Ideally, if not making any trades, Budinger would be our pick. Either keep Lil Ben as the 6th man, or package him with Wallace for McGrady or some other FA that would help (especially at SG/SF while Chase is developing). (I'd rather have Kosta Koufus if we are going with a post player anyway. I wouldn't mind trading Noah for Koufus though...just don't like Noah at all)

Top 10 players:

Hinrich/Duchump
McGrady/Budinger
Deng/Nocioni
Tyrus/Nocioni/Smith
Noah/Smith/Gray


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



HKF said:


> Hibbert is playing in a system that shares the basketball. Since most fans don't understand the ability to play in the post, they don't know what Hibbert can do. Like Ewing, Mutombo and Mourning before him, Hibbert will be better in the pros, because he learned how to do everything while at Georgetown, not just score.


Very good point. It isn't like Georgetown doesn't have a history of turning out fantastic pro centers. Ewing and Mourning are obviously far superior players to Hibbert, but I can see him having a Mutombo like career only not as good on the defensive end and better on the offensive end.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

At the moment Id put him at a notch right below Okafor level


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

Brendan Haywood: 10.6 pts, 8.1 reb, 1.8 blocks, shooting 55% and 71% from the line? More blocks than the immortal Tyson Chandler, at 7'0? Sign me up. We could use an average 7'0" center. But Hibbert appears more skilled in post offense than Haywood to me.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



Rhyder said:


> What is your definition of average?
> 
> I don't think Hibbert will be as good as Dwight Howard. However I could see him putting up 16-18 & 9-11 rpg type numbers in his prime. I'd only put him a small notch below Aldridge mainly because Aldridge is a little better defender, despite the difference in size.


The problem with Hibbert is that he doesn't even score consistently in college, I would be happy with 16-18 ppg with 10 rpg but common hes not even putting up those number in college.

I dont know what to say about Hibbert but nothing about his game makes me say wow, hes just seems like another Pax pick that flashes good stuff at times but when its all said and done is just average.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

Noah is a PF. He's not strong enough to defend C's, particularly guys like Howard and Oden. We need a non-midget C.


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## rasalpool (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



HKF said:


> Hibbert is playing in a system that shares the basketball. Since most fans don't understand the ability to play in the post, they don't know what Hibbert can do. Like Ewing, Mutombo and Mourning before him, Hibbert will be better in the pros, because he learned how to do everything while at Georgetown, not just score.


 
His stats should be a lot better than they are right now . I understand his stats for being low because of Jeff Green last season . But he should atleast be averaging 16-17 points per game and 10 - 11 rebounds per game . It's Embarrassing this guy is 7'2 and he only gives you 7 rebounds per game . Also He does not have much upside and he is not very mobile . No for Hibbert .


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



rasalpool said:


> His stats should be a lot better than they are right now . I understand his stats for being low because of Jeff Green last season . But he should atleast be averaging 16-17 points per game and 10 - 11 rebounds per game . It's Embarrassing this guy is 7'2 and he only gives you 7 rebounds per game . Also He does not have much upside and he is not very mobile . No for Hibbert .


Yeah I'm not sold on Hibbert being anything special in the NBA. 

Call me crazy but I would rather have the Bulls take a shot at 7'6 360 pound Kenny George from NC Asheville over Hibbert.










LOL this guy will never have a full healthy season in the NBA but MAN this guy is a monster.
12 ppg 9 rpg *5!* blocks per game.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



thebizkit69u said:


> Yeah I'm not sold on Hibbert being anything special in the NBA.
> 
> Call me crazy but I would rather have the Bulls take a shot at 7'6 360 pound Kenny George from NC Asheville over Hibbert.
> 
> ...


that guy is huge..

lol at the guy tryna box him out :lol:

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lol..


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



NewAgeBaller said:


> that guy is huge..
> 
> lol at the guy tryna box him out :lol:


Aaron Gray could run that dude out of the gym. In fact, I would like to see that race.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



Oldmangrouch said:


> There seems to be a wide divergence of opion on Hibbert. I've seen mocks list him anywhere from #6 to #12 to out of the lotto.
> 
> My gut is that no matter how well he does during the season, he will test mediocre (or worse) at the combine and fall out of the top 10. If he winds up on a team with a good conditioning program, he *might* be a steal.


That's my take on him as well, and one of my hopes in the Bulls acquiring him.

Here is my big depth chart (from a Bulls perspective) as it stands now.
1. Roy Hibbert
2a Kevin Love
2b Kosta Koufos (I really haven't seen enough of him to get a good read)
4. Brook Lopez
5. Richard Hendrix
6. Trent Plaisted
7. Hasheem Thabeet
8. DeVon Hardin

I really hope teams gamble on Thabeet or Koufos' potential and let a guy like Hibbert or Love to fall to us. This Nikola Pekovic seems interesting as well, but I have yet to see him play.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



HKF said:


> Hibbert is playing in a system that shares the basketball. Since most fans don't understand the ability to play in the post, they don't know what Hibbert can do. Like Ewing, Mutombo and Mourning before him, Hibbert will be better in the pros, because he learned how to do everything while at Georgetown, not just score.


Well said, and was actually the point I was trying to get at with the post above yours (although I trailed off instead).

I'd like to see your big man depth chart as well. I've noticed you and myself are usually pretty close in our prep to pro player evaluations.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



Rhyder said:


> That's my take on him as well, and one of my hopes in the Bulls acquiring him.
> 
> Here is my big depth chart (from a Bulls perspective) as it stands now.
> 1. Roy Hibbert
> ...



Wow no DeAndre Jordan?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



thebizkit69u said:


> Wow no DeAndre Jordan?


I'd probably put Jordan first if he declares. He is another guy I haven't seen a lot of, so I wasn't thinking about him. The only time I have seen Jordan or Koufos play was the Texas A&M @ OSU game.

Jordan might be better served staying another year in college depending on his situation. This could be a case if he stays one more year he could be the #1 overall pick. If not, its feasible seeing him falling as far as the #6-10 range or so.

EDIT:

I also forgot Ogilvy

1. DeAndre Jordan (I really haven't seen enough of him to get a good read)
2. Roy Hibbert
3a Kevin Love
3b Kosta Koufos (I really haven't seen enough of him to get a good read)
4a Brook Lopez
4b Andrew Ogilvy
5a Richard Hendrix
5b Trent Plaisted
5c Hasheem Thabeet
6. DeVon Hardin

Different numbers indicate different tiers.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

I just wanted to say not to get too hung up on stats, first Georgetown actually plays the Princeton offense (the way Princeton played it, not the Sacramento Kings played it). They use 25-30 seconds every possession to get good shots at the basket. They run an actual offense that doesn't cater to one guy getting monster numbers.

Hibbert is second on the team in shot attempts at 7.8 per game and yet he leads the team in scoring and is shooting 61% from the field. Now ask yourself this, on any other team that was a top 25 team, are you telling me Hibbert wouldn't be getting 15 shots per game? It's just not the way Georgetown plays.

So here are the scoring numbers through 13 games for the Hoyas (not including today against UConn).

Hibbert 12.0
Summers 11.8
Wallace 10.5
Freeman 9.8
Sapp 9.4
Ewing, Jr. 6.3
Wright 6.2
Macklin 3.9
Rivers 3.2

The Hoyas have 7 players scoring more than six points per game and no player takes more than eight shots per game. So, you need to evaluate their players differently (i.e. not by the numbers). It's obvious that Wallace can shoot, that Summers can play all over the place and that Hibbert can score in the post, however Georgetown is a spread the wealth kind of team.

I still believe if you really want to know if Hibbert can play, you have to take his games against Aaron Gray and Greg Oden into heavy account when he dominated Gray (thrice) and played Oden to a standstill. When he gets fed the rock (which he will in the pros), he will be very good.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

He's a post player.

Bulls won't think of drafting him.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*

14 shots, 20 points for Hibbert. People need to understand the system guy plays in.


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## JPTurbo (Jan 8, 2006)

If Hibbert is there when the Bulls pick, this would be Pax's chance to redeem himself for trading Aldridge. I still like Aldridge more, but Hibbert will definitely be able to score in the pros.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



HKF said:


> Hibbert is playing in a system that shares the basketball. Since most fans don't understand the ability to play in the post, they don't know what Hibbert can do. Like Ewing, Mutombo and Mourning before him, Hibbert will be better in the pros, because he learned how to do everything while at Georgetown, not just score.


QFT


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

JPTurbo said:


> If Hibbert is there when the Bulls pick, this would be Pax's chance to redeem himself for trading Aldridge. I still like Aldridge more, but Hibbert will definitely be able to score in the pros.


This is why I was hoping Hibbert would declare last season. I thought this would be the best case scenario for acquiring him on the Bulls. Although looking at our record right now, we might have a shot at him again this season.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Rhyder said:


> This is why I was hoping Hibbert would declare last season. I thought this would be the best case scenario for acquiring him on the Bulls. Although looking at our record right now, we might have a shot at him again this season.


Well if we miss out on Rose,Beasley,Mayo and maybe even Gordon than I dont see why anyone would oppose to drafting Hibbert. BUT if Pax pulls another Thomas on us and skips over guys more talented he should be FIRED.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

I'd draft they guy. 

With him, Gray and Noah you'd could always have a 7 footer on the court regardless of match ups.

We could play him against the starting center and Gray against the back up. Gray's a good enough post presence against back ups and Hibbert would provide one against the starters.

Failing having an all star goto guy type scoring, I'd prefer this option and build around a "post player" even if it's by committee.

Pair either one with with Noah or TT I think you could compenstate for the lack of speed at center. 

I had enough of midget ball, when need size on the court at all positions.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

JPTurbo said:


> If Hibbert is there when the Bulls pick, this would be Pax's chance to redeem himself for trading Aldridge. I still like Aldridge more, but *Hibbert will definitely be able to score in the pros.*


I'm not sure how a 7'2 senior that has failed to average 13ppg in any college season will 'definitely' be able to score in the NBA.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

We've already addressed this RebelSun.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

HKF, what's your opinion of Gray, if you don't mind me asking?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

RebelSun said:


> I'm not sure how a 7'2 senior that has failed to average 13ppg in any college season will 'definitely' be able to score in the NBA.


I dont think he will be a great scorer in the NBA but I do like his college FG%, it doesnt mean that hes going to shoot 60% in the NBA but still atleast hes got some decent post moves. Will he average 20 ppg in the NBA probably not since hes not the quickest player in the post and to be honest doesnt have an out of this world skill set, but still hes decent enough to contribute.


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## Brothaman33 (Feb 21, 2006)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



thebizkit69u said:


> Yeah I'm not sold on Hibbert being anything special in the NBA.
> 
> Call me crazy but I would rather have the Bulls take a shot at 7'6 360 pound Kenny George from NC Asheville over Hibbert.
> 
> ...


This man is rediculous... draft sites have him at 7'8 360 LBS..
THATS REDICULOUS.

i say we take him 2nd round and play him 5-8 mintues a game and just SIT him in the lane, (without getting lane violations)

hes gettin 13.2 PPG, 9.1 RPG, shooting 71% from the floor, 5.1 BPG, while only playin 22.1 MPG.

I dont care if you think he can play in the NBA or not, you gotta admit that its cool!

As far as Hibbert, i think he will be a GOOD NBA player. His stats are deceiving because of the offense that they run. You cant just look squarly at stats and assume that he cant play. At 7'2 he isnt the most athletic guy, but he doesnt have to be, for being 7'2 he moves well, and will be able to keep up in the NBA. 

I think him a Gray are very similar though, 7 footers, not overly athletic. and have a good selection of post moves.

I like Gray and i wouldnt see the point of drafting Hibbert when Gray could do the same thing.

How much better is Hibbert then Gray? in my book its not too much...


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Well if we miss out on Rose,Beasley,Mayo and maybe even Gordon than I dont see why anyone would oppose to drafting Hibbert. BUT if Pax pulls another Thomas on us and skips over guys more talented he should be FIRED.


At the time of the draft, a majority of people on this site were saying they didn't want Aldridge because he was slow, skinny, wasn't good in the post, and would be another nothing safe pick by Paxson. They wanted to take a risk, and Roy and Thomas were the two names to appear most often.

Leading up to the draft, I was defending Aldridge as the pick we should make with about 3 other people. A few changed their tune right at the end. Now, most people blame Paxson for not drafting him even though they were bashing him as a potential pick at the time. How times have changed...

My draft board looks about like:
1. Beasley
2. Rose
3. Jordan
-----
4. Gordon
5. Hibbert
6. Mayo
7. Bayless
8. Budinger
-----
9. Collison

After that, really only the bigs interest me much at all.

I think any of the top 3 could be interchangeable.

Gordon on down to Budinger form the next tier. Mayo used to be part of that top tier, and still has the most upside out of the second tier, but his inconsistent college play now gives me pause.

I only listed Collison because I really like his game. I don't necessarily want to draft him, as I would probably prefer taking a chance on a lot of the bigs over him (unless we have a late pick, he slips, and we draft him to be our Du replacement).


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Rhyder said:


> At the time of the draft, a majority of people on this site were saying they didn't want Aldridge because he was slow, skinny, wasn't good in the post, and would be another nothing safe pick by Paxson. They wanted to take a risk, and Roy and Thomas were the two names to appear most often.
> 
> Leading up to the draft, I was defending Aldridge as the pick we should make with about 3 other people. A few changed their tune right at the end. Now, most people blame Paxson for not drafting him even though they were bashing him as a potential pick at the time. How times have changed...
> 
> ...


I feel you, I had Aldrige, Gay, Roy, Morrison and Ronnie Brewer rated above Thomas last year. I was furious when Thomas was drafted but thats in the past. 

I havent seen Jordan play much but if this kid can add 30 more pounds on him WOW he can be a DWight Howard type of player.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



rasalpool said:


> Hibbert is the next Brendan Haywood


LOL


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



thebizkit69u said:


> Hibbert will be in the league for a long time only because thats what happens when your 7 feet and average.


Oops. Now we're up to 3...


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



DaBabyBullz said:


> *I don't think we need a post player at all in the next draft. Noah at C, and Tyrus at PF should be the future.* We need to get rid of both Bens, and get a worthwhile SG. Ideally, if not making any trades, Budinger would be our pick. Either keep Lil Ben as the 6th man, or package him with Wallace for McGrady or some other FA that would help (especially at SG/SF while Chase is developing). (I'd rather have Kosta Koufus if we are going with a post player anyway. I wouldn't mind trading Noah for Koufus though...just don't like Noah at all)
> 
> Top 10 players:
> 
> ...


See... "the post? HELL NO. I want two FRONT TO THE BASKET players in the frontcourt." But I'm dreaming this up..


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Look at the donkey of our forum Hoodey going back to work.

http://www.basketballforum.com/5331555-post7.html

What is that? A Bulls fan liking Hibbert?

http://www.basketballforum.com/5302572-post6.html

What is that? Am I saying I would be in favor of taking Hibbert?

http://www.basketballforum.com/5264172-post26.html

Another fan?

http://www.basketballforum.com/5516169-post7.html

What's going on? Is the guy who called Trent Richardson a once in a decade talent still having a point?


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



Coatesvillain said:


> He's a post player.
> 
> Bulls won't think of drafting him.


Wee, where did this come from? Did this guy just make this up randomly, or do the Bulls not like post players? Who was the last post player the Bulls had? Eddy Curry? Before him? Artis Gilmore? 

But yeah, it was just one fan, I'm making this all up and the Bulls would be just as eager as you and I to acquire a post player with any significance.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Look at the donkey of our forum Hoodey going back to work.
> 
> http://www.basketballforum.com/5331555-post7.html
> 
> ...


Bro, I'm not saying you wouldn't have taken Hibbert. I'm not saying no Bulls fans would. I'm saying there are plenty who didn't want him. You don't remember the era where the "game was changing" and "positions were going away" that coincided with D'Antoni winning a bunch of regular season games? You think no Bulls fans went along with that? 

And, even if all fans agreed with taking Hibbert if we were there, how many were willing to trade Deng to get into the draft to get Hibbert? Cause I was. Even if all fans wanted him have the BULLS ever wanted players like that?


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Bro, I'm not saying you wouldn't have taken Hibbert. I'm not saying no Bulls fans would. I'm saying there are plenty who didn't want him. You don't remember the era where the "game was changing" and "positions were going away" that coincided with D'Antoni winning a bunch of regular season games? You think no Bulls fans went along with that?
> 
> And, even if all fans agreed with taking Hibbert if we were there, how many were willing to trade Deng to get into the draft to get Hibbert? Cause I was. Even if all fans wanted him have the BULLS ever wanted players like that?


You'll find the argument of guys wanting some guys and being totally against others. You'll also find yourself and others being in favor of trading for some guys who end up sucking and guys who were never on board in the first place. The point? We're all right and wrong, so get over it.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> You'll find the argument of guys wanting some guys and being totally against others. You'll also find yourself and others being in favor of trading for some guys who end up sucking and guys who were never on board in the first place. The point? We're all right and wrong, so get over it.


No.. the point is.. there's been one side the organization has been on... and that side is wrong. Just don't try to tell me nobody here has agreed with the Bulls and don't try to tell me they wanted Hibbert, Cousins or Drummond more than Noah and Deng. Because if they did, it would have happened at some point.

But that's what you get when you have a GM/President/whatever position I need to call myself to kick the can of accountability to the next guy who admits to giving a guy like Deng a "reward contract" for making the Bulls competitive again. The kind of idiot who wouldn't have been fanatical about making a move for a guy like that.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> No.. the point is.. there's been one side the organization has been on... and that side is wrong. Just don't try to tell me nobody here has agreed with the Bulls and don't try to tell me they wanted Hibbert, Cousins or Drummond more than Noah and Deng. Because if they did, it would have happened at some point.
> 
> But that's what you get when you have a GM/President/whatever position I need to call myself to kick the can of accountability to the next guy who admits to giving a guy like Deng a "reward contract" for making the Bulls competitive again. The kind of idiot who wouldn't have been fanatical about making a move for a guy like that.


Haha, once again you couldn't go a day without mentioning Paxson. Did he steal your girlfriend/wife or something for you to hate him so much?

Until 2010, Deng was an untradeable part because VDN killed his value. We were in talks with the Warriors about acquiring the number 7 pick for Deng, but the Warriors opted against it. The Bulls can't accept offers for other teams. For all we know, other teams share the same negative opinions you do on Deng, but suddenly when talking trade, you forget all about that and treat them as the 2nd coming of Jordan that can net anything in a trade.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Haha, once again you couldn't go a day without mentioning Paxson. Did he steal your girlfriend/wife or something for you to hate him so much?
> 
> Until 2010, Deng was an untradeable part because VDN killed his value. We were in talks with the Warriors about acquiring the number 7 pick for Deng, but the Warriors opted against it. The Bulls can't accept offers for other teams. For all we know, other teams share the same negative opinions you do on Deng, but suddenly when talking trade, you forget all about that and treat them as the 2nd coming of Jordan that can net anything in a trade.


Who hired vdn? Did he pull a Gordon gecko and install himself as coach via hostile takeover?

Was Deng considered to have no value during contract time in 08?

Notice I included Noah. He wouldn't have netted hibbert via trade? I don't think Noah sucks. I think Deng sucks. I think Noah just doesn't help US BEAT MIAMI. 

Styles matter. We need a post scorer of big stature v. Miami. Ever watched foreman v. Frazier? Styles matter..


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Who hired vdn? Did he pull a Gordon gecko and install himself as coach via hostile takeover?
> 
> Was Deng considered to have no value during contract time in 08?
> 
> ...


You don't trade Noah for the 17th overall pick in the draft. You take a massive step back 95% of the time you make that move. There are absolutely no guarantees that Hibbert pans out and more often than not, the draft prospect doesn't pan out. Further more you can't predict Miami's big 3 happening back then, let alone the same year it happened.

Deng's contract was an overpay and the VDN hire has to go down as Pax's worst move, but all GM make bad moves, you won't find one that is perfect, so it's asking a bit much to expect them to be flawless.


Also Deng doesn't suck and under Thibs he did quite well. Good 3rd option.


----------



## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: Paxson scoutng Hibbert*



thebizkit69u said:


> Yeah I'm not sold on Hibbert being anything special in the NBA.
> 
> *Call me crazy but I would rather have the Bulls take a shot at 7'6 360 pound Kenny George from NC Asheville over Hibbert.*
> 
> ...


Yup you're crazy.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> You don't trade Noah for the 17th overall pick in the draft. You take a massive step back 95% of the time you make that move. There are absolutely no guarantees that Hibbert pans out and more often than not, the draft prospect doesn't pan out. Further more you can't predict Miami's big 3 happening back then, let alone the same year it happened.
> 
> Deng's contract was an overpay and the VDN hire has to go down as Pax's worst move, but all GM make bad moves, you won't find one that is perfect, so it's asking a bit much to expect them to be flawless.
> 
> ...


Yeah the Ben Wallace signing was awesome. He was also.flawless when not swinging the Jay Williams to Denver or pick swap with Toronto in 03. Tyrus also... where is ONE move as good as pippen for polynice or rodman for perdue?


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

And sure you move Noah if you think hibbert will be good enough. I thought that. But once... I was wrong about a football player lol.

Noah is a third option. You said so. So third options are unriskable when you don't haveva second option?


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Yeah the Ben Wallace signing was awesome. He was also.flawless when not swinging the Jay Williams to Denver or pick swap with Toronto in 03. Tyrus also... where is ONE move as good as pippen for polynice or rodman for perdue?


Well, what deals have other teams done as good as that since Paxson took over? Gasol to the Lakers surely was one, don't know about another.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> And sure you move Noah if you think hibbert will be good enough. I thought that. But once... I was wrong about a football player lol.
> 
> Noah is a third option. You said so. So third options are unriskable when you don't haveva second option?


Again, Hibbert is the 17th overall pick, that's a hell of a move for someone who had never proven anything and fell that far. And for all of this Hibbert is a 2nd option talk of yours, he has never shot over 50% in a season for his career nor averaged more than 13 points a game.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Well, what deals have other teams done as good as that since Paxson took over? Gasol to the Lakers surely was one, don't know about another.


And what's paxsons best acquisition? Drafting Noah?


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Again, Hibbert is the 17th overall pick, that's a hell of a move for someone who had never proven anything and fell that far. And for all of this Hibbert is a 2nd option talk of yours, he has never shot over 50% in a season for his career nor averaged more than 13 points a game.


Looked better than Noah v. Miami. Is better than Noah. 

Just don't tell me we never could have gotten a player like that. We could have. We never wanted one.

You want certainty ... there is none. Its always a risk. Kobe was a risk. Or do you think he makes it to Charlotte's pick if everyone knew he would be that good? If everyone knew hibbert would be as good as he is you think he makes it to 17?

I knew he wasn't a title second option in 08 and wasn't going to be... Noah.


----------



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Hibbert is solid, but I am losing zero sleep over having Joakim Noah at center instead... Hibbert had a great playoffs last year and is a different type of player, but when you take the sum of their parts I don't think there's a clear leader. Roy Hibbert is not the back-to-the-basket center that is going to transform an offense. He's a great rim protector, but Noah does a lot defensively that Hibbert can't, and it isn't like we've struggled defensively in Noah's tenure as a starting center. If it comes down to offense, Hibbert's game might be prettier (which isn't saying much, since Noah's game on offense is an eyesore) but I don't know that he's really that much more effective... what Hibbert may give you in post play (and he's shooting 46% again this year, after shooting 45% last year) Noah gives you in interior passing, I don't see a clear winner there. 

I think most Bulls fans acknowledged for years that we needed a low post presence (that and an competent, appropriately sized SG)... we just ended up with Carlos Boozer to fill that role... even with Rose becoming Rose, that wasn't enough to get us to the mountaintop. Bumping two threads to prove that some people didn't like Roy Hibbert seems kind of excessive.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Looked better than Noah v. Miami. Is better than Noah.
> 
> Just don't tell me we never could have gotten a player like that. We could have. We never wanted one.
> 
> ...


And we were suppose to know in 2008 that the Miami Heat would have a big 3 where Hibbert has success against?


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> And what's paxsons best acquisition? Drafting Noah?


Tom Thibodeau. Drafting Joakim Noah at number 9. Drafting Jimmy Butler at 29. Drafting Derrick Rose at number 1(at the time Beasley was supposed to be the better talent). Drafting Taj Gibson at 26. Trading Eddy Curry for two picks. 

The one that is missing is getting the 2nd option. We'll see if he gets it this time around.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> And we were suppose to know in 2008 that the Miami Heat would have a big 3 where Hibbert has success against?


No other big center has mattered late in the playoffs since? Did you see the 08 finals?? Perkins couldn't even score and he mattered. He beat gasol up.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Tom Thibodeau. Drafting Joakim Noah at number 9. Drafting Jimmy Butler at 29. Drafting Derrick Rose at number 1(at the time Beasley was supposed to be the better talent). Drafting Taj Gibson at 26. Trading Eddy Curry for two picks.
> 
> The one that is missing is getting the 2nd option. We'll see if he gets it this time around.


Thibs has proven what? That he can win regular season games? 1-4 v. Miami when there were no excuses in 2011.

None of the other moves is close to as good as say... the acquisition of Tony Parker. Not close...

We need a #2. Getting Butler at 29 when he's more like a 15th pick type is meaningless when you don't have a #2.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Thibs has proven what? That he can win regular season games? 1-4 v. Miami when there were no excuses in 2011.
> 
> None of the other moves is close to as good as say... the acquisition of Tony Parker. Not close...
> 
> We need a #2. Getting Butler at 29 when he's more like a 15th pick type is meaningless when you don't have a #2.


Parker was a late 1st round pick. For all we know, Mirotic is our Tony Parker.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Parker was a late 1st round pick. For all we know, Mirotic is our Tony Parker.


So if you say he is and I say definitely not and he ends up not being it will you stop acting like you have the high ground? Lol

And when 2010s diet kukoc gets here pax will only have been here 12 years!


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Dornado said:


> Bumping two threads to prove that some people didn't like Roy Hibbert seems kind of excessive.


It reeks of being pathetic with nothing better to do is what it is. That's really sad. For real.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

DaBabyBullz said:


> It reeks of being pathetic with nothing better to do is what it is. That's really sad. For real.


But something something Larry Nance.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Dornado said:


> Hibbert is solid, but I am losing zero sleep over having Joakim Noah at center instead... Hibbert had a great playoffs last year and is a different type of player, but when you take the sum of their parts I don't think there's a clear leader. Roy Hibbert is not the back-to-the-basket center that is going to transform an offense. He's a great rim protector, but Noah does a lot defensively that Hibbert can't, and it isn't like we've struggled defensively in Noah's tenure as a starting center. If it comes down to offense, Hibbert's game might be prettier (which isn't saying much, since Noah's game on offense is an eyesore) but I don't know that he's really that much more effective... what Hibbert may give you in post play (and he's shooting 46% again this year, after shooting 45% last year) Noah gives you in interior passing, I don't see a clear winner there.
> 
> I think most Bulls fans acknowledged for years that we needed a low post presence (that and an competent, appropriately sized SG)... we just ended up with Carlos Boozer to fill that role... even with Rose becoming Rose, that wasn't enough to get us to the mountaintop. Bumping two threads to prove that some people didn't like Roy Hibbert seems kind of excessive.


Wee... see. You have the case I laid out against Miami... that, with size, a very average fundamental post center can be effective v. Miami cause they guard the 5 with a 225 lb. Player... we saw the series hibbert had v. Miami. You can watch the 2011 ECF to see how Noah generates no individual offense v. Miami... and...

This Guy wants Noah. His analysis is that hibbert isn't a great post player... which ignored Miami s weakness.

So don't feed me this "who doesn't think Noah is a third option/who wouldn't want hibbert/cousins/drummond over Noah" crap. The answer? Plenty of bulls fans and the organization.

What's funny is if Indiana beats Miami dornado will be talking about how we could never have gotten hibbert...


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

DaBabyBullz said:


> It reeks of being pathetic with nothing better to do is what it is. That's really sad. For real.


Lmfao... here comes the Guy who thought gurus and Noah was the future... btw wee neither of those guys is a halfback. I guess offense just doesn't count huh baby.

See wee.. there were plenty of bulls fans who thought you could win a title shooting jumpers and rebounding misses. Contested jumpers...

Wee... I bet this Guy talked to people like he knew what was up just as much as you do...


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Lmfao... here comes the Guy who thought gurus and Noah was the future... btw wee neither of those guys is a halfback. I guess offense just doesn't count huh baby.
> 
> See wee.. there were plenty of bulls fans who thought you could win a title shooting jumpers and rebounding misses. Contested jumpers...
> 
> Wee... I bet this Guy talked to people like he knew what was up just as much as you do...


At least he's not going back to delete his shit in embarrassment like you do. 

He's been wrong on things that you were right on, and you've been wrong on things he's been right on. Only difference is you delete everything you were wrong about. Get over yourself, nobody values your opinion.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> But something something Larry Nance.


Lol! You don't think bulls fans would be giving each other hand jobs over Larry Nance if he played for the bulls right now?? Go to realgm circa 04 and read Hinrich posts lol. High comedy. 

I think if bill laimbeer played here fans.would be acting like he was elgin Baylor. You do realize Brian urlacher was like a legend for the ages in meatball city right?


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Lol! You don't think bulls fans would be giving each other hand jobs over Larry Nance if he played for the bulls right now?? Go to realgm circa 04 and read Hinrich posts lol. High comedy.
> 
> I think if bill laimbeer played here fans.would be acting like he was elgin Baylor. You do realize Brian urlacher was like a legend for the ages in meatball city right?


Urlacher was the 2nd best LB of his generation, so he rightfully is praised. It's not his fault Jerry Angelo was a clown disguised as an NFL GM.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> At least he's not going back to delete his shit in embarrassment like you do.
> 
> He's been wrong on things that you were right on, and you've been wrong on things he's been right on. Only difference is you delete everything you were wrong about. Get over yourself, nobody values your opinion.


So I delete everything I'm wrong about but I left the caroming stuff up?

I posted past posts because you were acting like I imagined this idea that anyone here e'er wanted something other than a post threat when in fact you desires are a minority here.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> So I delete everything I'm wrong about but I left the caroming stuff up?
> 
> I posted past posts because you were acting like I imagined this idea that anyone here e'er wanted something other than a post threat when in fact you desires are a minority here.


Then you clearly have a reading comprehension problem. I never said there weren't guys that thought like that, I'm telling you these guys aren't Paxson puppets like you love to claim. Everybody has different opinions, is that too much information for your Larry Nance filled brain to process? DaBabyBullz is the same guy that has strongly been against the signings of Deng and Boozer and would prefer Paxson out, if my memory serves correct.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Urlacher was the 2nd best LB of his generation, so he rightfully is praised. It's not his fault Jerry Angelo was a clown disguised as an NFL GM.


Lmfao I'm dealing with one of them hahaha. That says bad things about his generation. And do you mean middle linebacker cause Derrick Brooks was better. Ever watch urlacher take Cory Schlesinger on the year after Ted Washington was gone lol. 

And this town acted like his ass was Lawrence Taylor lol.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Lmfao I'm dealing with one of them hahaha. That says bad things about his generation. And do you mean middle linebacker cause Derrick Brooks was better. Ever watch urlacher take Cory Schlesinger on the year after Ted Washington was gone lol.
> 
> And this town acted like his ass was Lawrence Taylor lol.


Yeah, you clearly don't have a clue, but that's proven by your opinion of Trent Richardson and Gabe Carimi. Middle linebacker in the cover 2 is probably the hardest position to play, excluding the quarterback position. 

Every forum has its village idiot, you must be ours. Welcome.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Then you clearly have a reading comprehension problem. I never said there weren't guys that thought like that, I'm telling you these guys aren't Paxson puppets like you love to claim. Everybody has different opinions, is that too much information for your Larry Nance filled brain to process? DaBabyBullz is the same guy that has strongly been against the signings of Deng and Boozer and would prefer Paxson out, if my memory serves correct.


But that's my main problem with paxson... his denial of a need for post offense. If he was who he is and instead was as obsessed with the post as john wooden he might not even be bad.

Wee.

... who was more popular in Chicago? Brian urlacher or Scottie pippen?


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> But that's my main problem with paxson... his denial of a need for post offense. If he was who he is and instead was as obsessed with the post as john wooden he might not even be bad.
> 
> Wee.
> 
> ... who was more popular in Chicago? Brian urlacher or Scottie pippen?


The 2nd option will never be as big as the leader no matter where you go. Furthermore, this is a football town first. If Jay Cutler gets Eli Manning hot and leads us to a Superbowl next year, he'll probably become more popular than Pippen.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Yeah, you clearly don't have a clue, but that's proven by your opinion of Trent Richardson and Gabe Carimi. Middle linebacker in the cover 2 is probably the hardest position to play, excluding the quarterback position.
> 
> Every forum has its village idiot, you must be ours. Welcome.


Lmfao you're a moron... you said second best linebacker... moron. You clearly don't know the difference between linebacker and.. cover 2 middle. 

So how did Brooks win a super bowl with Brad Johnson at QB and your dad at MLB playing the same defense? And urlacher did not win a super bowl...


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Lmfao you're a moron... you said second best linebacker... moron. You clearly don't know the difference between linebacker and.. cover 2 middle.
> 
> So how did Brooks win a super bowl with Brad Johnson at QB and your dad at MLB playing the same defense? And urlacher did not win a super bowl...


A cover 2 middle is considered a linebacker, Mr. Trent Richardson is a once in a decade running back.

His team put up 48 points in the Superbowl. If Rex Grossman can put up 48 points in the Superbowl, Urlacher has a ring too. Granted the defense put up 21 points(one of which was Derrick Brooks).


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> The 2nd option will never be as big as the leader no matter where you go. Furthermore, this is a football town first. If Jay Cutler gets Eli Manning hot and leads us to a Superbowl next year, he'll probably become more popular than Pippen.


Scottie pippen was a better athlete than urlacher or Cutler on their best days. You know what else is really popular here? Baseball. The cubs and sox and their one combined ring in almost 100 years.

Who was more popular in Chicago in the 90s? Pippen or mark grace
.. who spent much of pippens career as the third best cub


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Scottie pippen was a better athlete than urlacher or Cutler on their best days. You know what else is really popular here? Baseball. The cubs and sox and their one combined ring in almost 100 years.
> 
> Who was more popular in Chicago in the 90s? Pippen or mark grace
> .. who spent much of pippens career as the third best cub


I couldn't care less about that 'sport'.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> A cover 2 middle is considered a linebacker, Mr. Trent Richardson is a once in a decade running back.
> 
> His team put up 48 points in the Superbowl. If Rex Grossman can put up 48 points in the Superbowl, Urlacher has a ring too. Granted the defense put up 21 points(one of which was Derrick Brooks).


Exactly dumb****... you said second best LINEBACKER of his era...

Ray Lewis
Derrick Brooks
Patrick Willis

Without even looking into it...


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Exactly dumb****... you said second best LINEBACKER of his era...
> 
> Ray Lewis
> Derrick Brooks
> ...


Patrick Willis is not the Urlacher era. He hasn't even reached 30. Dumb ****. Maybe that explains why you're still living in moms basement screaming at her to go get you that diet sodie.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> I couldn't care less about that 'sport'.


I didn't say you did. But a vast majority of Chicago sports fans do. And it was offers to support how out there conventional Chicago sports wisdom is.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> I didn't say you did. But a vast majority of Chicago sports fans do. And it was offers to support how out there conventional Chicago sports wisdom is.


Well I certainly have heard of Pippen more than Grace. I don't even know what position Grace plays and what positions Soriano, Marmol, and all of them play, so there's my deep knowledge about the sport.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Patrick Willis is not the Urlacher era. He hasn't even reached 30. Dumb ****. Maybe that explains why you're still living in moms basement screaming at her to go get you that diet sodie.


Lol another 5'6" chump who is talking big behind a computer

1) dumb**** you said 2nd best... I gave you two better before Willis.. you already lose.
2) they had a few good years coincide.


----------



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Hoodey said:


> Wee... see. You have the case I laid out against Miami... that, with size, a very average fundamental post center can be effective v. Miami cause they guard the 5 with a 225 lb. Player... we saw the series hibbert had v. Miami. You can watch the 2011 ECF to see how Noah generates no individual offense v. Miami... and...


It is fair to say that Hibbert gives Miami more problems based on last years eastern conference finals, and I'll concede that it may be the case going forward. That series is definitely a point in favor of your argument. Still, I think overall I'm just as happy with Noah as I would be with Hibbert, which was my point. 



> This Guy wants Noah. His analysis is that hibbert isn't a great post player... which ignored Miami s weakness.


I'm right here champ, no need to talk about "this guy". I said I'm not worried about having Noah instead of Hibbert... I think it is basically a push at this point. I also think that Miami still beat Indiana last year (and beat them by 20 in the only game where they faced elimination)... and I also think that Paul George, David West, good coaching and solid depth also contributed (and continue to contribute) to the Pacers' success. Hibbert had a great series against Miami last year, but overall I don't think he's the game-changer you are making him out to be relative to Noah. Might Hibbert be an upgrade, sure. Is acquiring Roy Hibbert the difference between us being champs or also-rans? I think not. I would love to have a stud center on our team that can bang in the low post... I don't think Hibbert is necessarily that guy. 

I see by your tone that you're trying to bully me out of my opinion, that's fun. 



> So don't feed me this "who doesn't think Noah is a third option/who wouldn't want hibbert/cousins/drummond over Noah" crap. The answer? Plenty of bulls fans and the organization.


I think I'm on record as saying that if Noah is your third option you'd still probably need superstars as your 1st and 2nd options to have a chance at winning a title. Ideally Noah is cast as a defensive stopper/leader/hustle player. I'd think you'd want Hibbert to be your third best guy too... maybe Indiana can do it with Paul George (superstar), David West (star), Hibbert and depth, but we'll see. I don't think they are too different than we were pre-Rose injury. I don't think Hibbert and Noah have wildly different impacts on the game. Despite your attempts to spin what I'm saying into something that fits into your narrative, casting me as foil for your quixotic battle against this group of "bulls fans" invented, I'm not sure I really said either of the things you're getting worked up about. 

Also... I don't think it is fair to lump Cousins, Drummond and Hibbert together... Hibbert is 27 and has considerably less upside than Cousins and Drummond. 



> What's funny is if Indiana beats Miami dornado will be talking about how we could never have gotten hibbert...


You know what's great is that I'll actually be around, no need to guess what I'll say. I'll still be talking about the Bulls... you'll still be arguing with people like a combative 12 year old. Is this how you converse with other adults in real life? I've heard you on the radio and you sounded a little nutty, but how can you possibly be this tone deaf? Your opinions are mostly benign... the arrogant and belligerent way in which you carry out these conversations is ridiculous. Simmer the **** down. 

I'll be rooting for Indiana against Miami, incidentally. Is your point that we should have traded into that draft to take Roy Hibbert? I don't see why I'd claim he was "never available", unlike you I don't pretend to know who is and who is not available for trade or what these organizations would be willing to give up, or when.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Well I certainly have heard of Pippen more than Grace. I don't even know what position Grace plays and what positions Soriano, Marmol, and all of them play, so there's my deep knowledge about the sport.



In the 90s grace was more popular than pippen. A sad indictment of this city.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> Lol another 5'6" chump who is talking big behind a computer
> 
> 1) dumb**** you said 2nd best... I gave you two better before Willis.. you already lose.
> 2) they had a few good years coincide.


I still think he's the 2nd best, but I'm not going to take away from Derrick Brooks, who is a great linebacker himself. I also did not say it was not up for debate. If Urlacher had a somewhat decent offense during his time here, he probably would have a couple Superbowl, certainly one Superbowl ring if Grossman doesn't screw it up on the Colts.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Somebody go back on Kukoc4Evers old post, I think we found his 2nd account.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Ok... the personal attacks have to stop. I'm not going to go back and hand out infractions, but we all need to start taking the high ground.


Also... I don't think Mark Grace was more popular than Scottie Pippen.


----------



## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Dornado said:


> It is fair to say that Hibbert gives Miami more problems based on last years eastern conference finals, and I'll concede that it may be the case going forward. That series is definitely a point in favor of your argument. Still, I think overall I'm just as happy with Noah as I would be with Hibbert, which was my point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you acknowledge what you did in your first paragraph but you're content to ignore Miami's weakness and go with a player who doesn't hurt them as much?

Indiana did lose... in a series that was as close as you all WISH the 2011 ECF was. 

I think hibbert could be a #2 with rose v. Miami. He was the #1 threat on the Pacers v. Miami. He opened up their offense. Wait... I can't speak wooden to you people lol. Everyone knows thibs is smarter than wooden was.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Dornado said:


> Ok... the personal attacks have to stop. I'm not going to go back and hand out infractions, but we all need to start taking the high ground.
> 
> 
> Also... I don't think Mark Grace was more popular than Scottie Pippen.



Lol when they don't agree with you and wont shut up when you tell them to just moderate them out. 

Gonna call TB1 LOL? 

Nah lets keep it going. Jnr referred to douchiness before I ever attacked him. But it will be fun to watch you turn me into the least morally just poster...


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Hoodey said:


> Lol when they don't agree with you and wont shut up when you tell them to just moderate them out.
> 
> Gonna call TB1 LOL?
> 
> Nah lets keep it going. Jnr referred to douchiness before I ever attacked him. But it will be fun to watch you turn me into the least morally just poster...


I said "we all" need to take the high road. Please feel free to review my post. If you have issues with board moderation it can be handled via PM. You, just like all of our other posters, are free to continue to debate and talk basketball - it is the personal attacks that have to stop. That applies to everyone. Victim card not applicable, sorry.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Lol....

I.know hibbert is better v. Miami than Noah but I just ... like Noah.

Hilarious


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

So if hibbert is better v. Miami than Noah. ... why would you take noah? Cause he's better against Milwaukee???


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Hoodey said:


> Lol....
> 
> I.know hibbert is better v. Miami than Noah but I just ... like Noah.
> 
> Hilarious


I said he had a great series against Miami. There are more teams in the league than just Miami, and while they may be our chief competition you'd still have to beat someone _after _beating Miami. I still think Noah helps us and can help us in the future against Miami. He'll help us in different ways than Hibbert would help us, but I don't think Noah is without value against them. 

Yours is definitely the easier argument to make based on last years playoffs... still, I think your larger point seems to be that we should have done something to acquire Hibbert specifically, and I don't know how to really assess that claim in a vacuum (as we had the 1st pick the year he was drafted). Is your point that we should trade Noah for Hibbert right now? That we should have before? I think we should have traded for Paul George too... he had to be available at some point, right? Wouldn't he be perfect next to Rose? Maybe I'll bump a few threads about it...


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Dornado said:


> I said he had a great series against Miami. There are more teams in the league than just Miami, and while they may be our chief competition you'd still have to beat someone _after _beating Miami. I still think Noah helps us and can help us in the future against Miami. He'll help us in different ways than Hibbert would help us, but I don't think Noah is without value against them.
> 
> Yours is definitely the easier argument to make based on last years playoffs... still, I think your larger point seems to be that we should have done something to acquire Hibbert specifically, and I don't know how to really assess that claim in a vacuum (as we had the 1st pick the year he was drafted). Is your point that we should trade Noah for Hibbert right now? That we should have before? I think we should have traded for Paul George too... he had to be available at some point, right? Wouldn't he be perfect next to Rose? Maybe I'll bump a few threads about it...


Damn I wanted Paul George so bad in that draft


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

I would have easily traded Noah to get in front of Indiana in 08. I posted that here but I think jnr deleted it... or tb1.

Noah generates no individual offense so not only is bosh not forced into extreme stress... he's free to thrive and Lebron will never even have to shade the post v. Chicago.

Miami is the champ. Its smart to want to beat them. I do know that younlike most bulls fans want to be better v. The entire league even if it means losing easier to a team like Miami.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> I would have easily traded Noah to get in front of Indiana in 08. I posted that here but I think jnr deleted it... or tb1.
> 
> Noah generates no individual offense so not only is bosh not forced into extreme stress... he's free to thrive and Lebron will never even have to shade the post v. Chicago.
> 
> Miami is the champ. Its smart to want to beat them. I do know that younlike most bulls fans want to be better v. The entire league even if it means losing easier to a team like Miami.


TB1 is not a mod here for some time.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

So are you claiming I somehow love cousins and drummond but didn't really want hibbert in 08??


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> TB1 is not a mod here for some time.


08 was some time ago... no?


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Pretty much only Scott may didn't suck back then...


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Hoodey said:


> I would have easily traded Noah to get in front of Indiana in 08. I posted that here but I think jnr deleted it... or tb1.
> 
> Noah generates no individual offense so not only is bosh not forced into extreme stress... he's free to thrive and Lebron will never even have to shade the post v. Chicago.


Keep in mind my outlandish position is that I'm "not losing sleep" over having Noah instead of Hibbert... I'm not saying Hibbert couldn't represent an upgrade... just trying to figure out your point. 

Are all of these threads really just a big "I told you so!" because you wanted to trade for a pick to get Hibbert back in the day? Incidentally, I think there's probably a 0% chance that those posts were deleted, unless you were insulting people to the point where they couldn't just edit out the insults.

Anyway, I'm aware of Noah's offensive shortcomings, I think those are fair criticisms. think part of the problem against Miami has been Carlos Boozer's inability to get anything going... he was supposed to be our "low post" threat. That, and an absolute lack of a second ball handler on the entire roster (funny enough Noah may have been our second best ballhandler, certainly is relative to position) to create offense once Rose was trapped. 



> Miami is the champ. Its smart to want to beat them. I do know that younlike most bulls fans want to be better v. The entire league even if it means losing easier to a team like Miami.


You have to be able to beat Miami and the other teams you play in the playoffs. Congratulations on taking out the strawman ("you don't want to beat Miami!") you so hastily put up.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Hoodey said:


> Pretty much only Scott may didn't suck back then...


What was your username back then?


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Point is... I bumped those threads because wee was saying he wanted low post offense and acting like it'd been a priority of the fan base and organization. It has not.

You and paxaon might have EVER been sold on boozer. Don't act like I bought that shit. Who was the last 6'9" post threat to win a finals? Crickets.

The idea that a boozer Noah front court could ever win a ring is a laugher


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Dornado said:


> What was your username back then?


I think either yourmom or youruncle. Why? Gonna try to ban me lol. Cause that will really hurt.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Hoodey said:


> I think either yourmom or youruncle. Why? Gonna try to ban me lol. Cause that will really hurt.


Have you been banned before?


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Dornado said:


> Have you been banned before?


Zzzzzzz


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Was that an admission? youruncle and yourmom didn't turn anything up... want to take another shot?


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Dornado said:


> Was that an admission? youruncle and yourmom didn't turn anything up... want to take another shot?


Not really but thanks. Try dornadosuncle


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

I do think if you banned me now you'd have fewer posters than hoopshype haha


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hoodey said:


> I do think if you banned me now you'd have fewer posters than hoopshype haha


Well if there is no reason to ban you, you won't get banned so I don't see why you'd be worried.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Well, he signed up in 2011 but says he was posting here in 2008... it is awfully peculiar.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Dornado said:


> Well, he signed up in 2011 but says he was posting here in 2008... it is awfully peculiar.


And remembers TB1 being a mod.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

mvP to the Wee said:


> And remembers TB1 being a mod.


The suspense.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)




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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)




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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)




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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Hoodey said:


> Lmfao... here comes the Guy who thought gurus and Noah was the future... btw wee neither of those guys is a halfback. I guess offense just doesn't count huh baby.
> 
> See wee.. there were plenty of bulls fans who thought you could win a title shooting jumpers and rebounding misses. Contested jumpers...
> 
> Wee... I bet this Guy talked to people like he knew what was up just as much as you do...


If you read my posts, I didn't like Noah. At all. But at that point in time, I was wanting to get a real SG, and give it a try with athletic, quick defenders in Noah and Tyrus a shot. I still think that Tyrus could've turned into a shot blocker and been a quality role player if he'd been used properly. (I wanted Rudy Gay or Bargnani....who was gone....over Tyrus in that draft) 

In the Noah draft, I wanted Spencer Hawes, and I'd still take him. Better offensively and shot blocking, but not as athletic or good of a rebounder. Nick Young was another one I liked, so we'd have a legit-sized SG. I wanted nothing to do with Noah, and was absolutely disgusted when they drafted him looking like Bozo the Clown, but he has grown on me over the years. 

So if you want to go back to '06, here's what my drafts would've been:

*'06: Rudy Gay & Ronnie Brewer *- good scorer and a good defender
*'07: Spencer Hawes* - nothing special, but I liked him
*'08: Derrick Rose* - I liked Love but viewed Rose as the #1 - Love would've been a better pick in hind-site with Rose's injuries
*'09: Byron Mullens & Chase Budinger* - 7 footer with range, and an athletic shooter - I really wanted Chase bad, especially when he slid to 46 or w/e
*'10: Gordon Hayward #9* - I would've traded a future 1 to get him - hated everyone else left - Paul George was another one I liked, due to the Pippen comparisons, but was already gone too. Aldrich was the 3rd, but already gone too......I really didn't like that draft class
*'11: Chandler Parsons* - another draft class I didn't like, especially picking so late. Valanciunas (whom is average) and Vesely (who has done nothing) are the guys I wanted if we had an early pick, or Motiujunas (again, nothing) is what I was hoping for later since the American crop was so crappy. Parsons was the only one left that I liked, and Mirotic sounds just fine to me, although he wasn't on my radar on draft day.
*'12: Meyers Leonard (#11) *is the guy I wanted, since I want a legit center/shot blocker. At #29, I liked no one that was still around.
*'13: Jeff Withey* - By default, since I didn't know/like anyone else and he could be a shot blocker.
*'14: Zach Lavine *- Hard to say where we even draft, but an athletic combo guard that can handle the ball and replace Rose when he gets hurt again would be nice. (this is with the current team's needs in place of course, if using my depth chart below, PG is still possibly the biggest need)

So that would leave you with a roster something like this, if you had traded Deng for the pieces to move up for Hayward/Leonard:

PG: Rose, Lavine
SG: Hayward, Brewer
SF: Gay, Budinger
PF: Mullens, Parsons
C: Hawes, Leonard, Withey

(I also never would've traded Chandler or signed Benedict Wallace)


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Haha Chase Budinger! I remember that one. Solid player. Joe Alexander was also your guy if I recall correctly. I kind of wish he panned out.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Hoodey said:


> I do think if you banned me now you'd have fewer posters than hoopshype haha


Hoodey, you have been banned for "ban evasion". Laugh it up. Former aliases Brockin25?, LB26matrixns, Pippenatorade, joehoo, etc… reveal that you just can’t get enough of us, which really is sad in its own way, but also a serious violation of forum rules. Anyway, please do not come back. Enjoy bothering people elsewhere, I hear hoopshype is looking for a few posters.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Bye bye Hoodey


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Haha Chase Budinger! I remember that one. Solid player. Joe Alexander was also your guy if I recall correctly. I kind of wish he panned out.


Yep, I still can't believe he didn't pan out. He was a great scorer there in the tourney that year. His defense was just too stupid for the NBA apparently. Of course he wasn't an option for the #1 pick, nor was Love (although of course Love would've been a great pick in hindsite.....Rose's defense is about as poor as Love's is, and both are great at what they do though). The Bulls even had Alexander for a while there, but he barely played. I was excited, and then bummed lol. 

I watch a lot of Timberwolves games, and go to some too (been to a couple Bulls' games against them of course the last couple years) and Chase is looking good there. Good shooter, good athlete. Too injury plagued as a T-Wolve though (tore his knee up against the Bulls last year actually).


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Good deal. Thanks Dornado.


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