# Danny Ainge has No Celtics loyalty



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

First he walks in and insults the team on the night of the biggest game of their season. Now he thinks he can tell the Boston fans what they should do?
I am sorry but I have listened to Danny Ainge's Celtics hatred on TNT for years. Anyone who thinks he bleeds Celtics green is going to get a rude awakining (sp) when he officially gets to start making deals for this team.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/nets/57597.htm

Why is Danny Ainge contacting Kidd during the middle of a playoff series vs the Nets? I can't be the only one who see's a red flag with this situation.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

How is Kidd considering comming to Boston bad? 

I can't blaim him, he's a great friend of the Kidd's.


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Ainge Bleeds Green*

You know what? If the Celts were insulted by what Ainge said maybe they should have won a freakin' game, huh! And I agree with what he said about the fans, too! You think anybody wants to play before a group of racist, drunken idiots! Of course it's too much for Celtic fans to sit there and consider that this guy is the best player in the East and plays the position the Celtics lack the most...they turned a 5% chance into a 0% chance with their juvenile behavior.
Yes, Danny bleeds green. And I hope he drafts better than Wallace, and I hope he makes a few changes. As long as O'Brien, Pierce and Walker all return (provided Antoine works his butt into better condition), what changes beyond that do you think would hurt this mediocre group?


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Ainge Bleeds Green*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> You think anybody wants to play before a group of racist, drunken idiots!


You do know you insulted every Celtic fan, right? Even yourself....


----------



## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

i hate it when celtic fanz insult other celtics fanz........


----------



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

*Re: Re: Ainge Bleeds Green*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> You do know you insulted every Celtic fan, right? Even yourself....


He isn't a Celtics fan. He is a Paul Pierce fan. (Not you Aquaitious but THE TRUTH-34)




Anyway. I can't believe that no one else has a problem with Danny Ainge calling the enemy during a playoff series vs the enemy. They can claim they are friends but I doubt they kept in touch on a regular basis. This was un- professional on his part any way you slice it.

I don't like Danny Ainge and he is going to do nothing for this team. Mark my words


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Actually....*

I, too, bleed green. And I'm just speaking the truth about SOME, not all, of our fans. Unfortunately, some of these drunken fools wanted to focus on one isolated incident that occurred almost two years ago and had nothing to do with the ***-kicking we were taking on the court or the series in general. Of course, they never ponder the effects this might have on the Nets or Kidd in the way of motivation (he had a great series and buried us--ever heard of not waking the sleeping giant?). I would trade any player on our team for Jason Kidd--including my beloved PP.
Don't hate on Danny Ainge (yes, he bleeds Green, too) because he called a spade a spade. I also see some of you didn't like some of the remarks he made while at TNT. Oh, you want him to applaud the Celtics ridiculous offense? (I am well aware, by the way, that Jim O'Brien made the most of the personnel he had--I'm just saying Danny was right at times to ridicule the team) I was thinking the very same things he was saying about the team. So I'm a traitor, too, I guess. What do you think Larry Bird would have said watching this crap? Is he less of a Celtic? What about what Hondo said? 
As for calling the "enemy," who cares? You have no idea what their relationship is, they are good friends, and maybe Danny realizes that you NEVER want to burn bridges with any superstars or possible future free agents. Get over it. If the Celts are that thin-skinned they need to go.
Bottom line: The C's are Danny's now. Changes are in order. Maybe some of you are happy with JR Bremer at the point and Antoine and Paul shooting 31% from 3PT range (at record numbers, I might add). Danny is not. Sorry.


----------



## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Ainge Bleeds Green*



> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> He isn't a Celtics fan. He is a Paul Pierce fan. (Not you Aquaitious but THE TRUTH-34)
> 
> ...


Danny Ainge WILL do something for us, i disagree with you 110% and i think many otherz will as well........


----------



## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Actually....*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I, too, bleed green. And I'm just speaking the truth about SOME, not all, of our fans. Unfortunately, some of these drunken fools wanted to focus on one isolated incident that occurred almost two years ago and had nothing to do with the ***-kicking we were taking on the court or the series in general. Of course, they never ponder the effects this might have on the Nets or Kidd in the way of motivation (he had a great series and buried us--ever heard of not waking the sleeping giant?). I would trade any player on our team for Jason Kidd--including my beloved PP.
> Don't hate on Danny Ainge (yes, he bleeds Green, too) because he called a spade a spade. I also see some of you didn't like some of the remarks he made while at TNT. Oh, you want him to applaud the Celtics ridiculous offense? (I am well aware, by the way, that Jim O'Brien made the most of the personnel he had--I'm just saying Danny was right at times to ridicule the team) I was thinking the very same things he was saying about the team. So I'm a traitor, too, I guess. What do you think Larry Bird would have said watching this crap? Is he less of a Celtic? What about what Hondo said?
> As for calling the "enemy," who cares? You have no idea what their relationship is, they are good friends, and maybe Danny realizes that you NEVER want to burn bridges with any superstars or possible future free agents. Get over it. If the Celts are that thin-skinned they need to go.
> Bottom line: The C's are Danny's now. Changes are in order. Maybe some of you are happy with JR Bremer at the point and Antoine and Paul shooting 31% from 3PT range (at record numbers, I might add). Danny is not. Sorry.


What an excellent and well thought out response. I could not have said this better myself.


----------



## CelticsRule (Jul 22, 2002)

Every team has some drunken fans there's nothing you can do about it. Boston had the first black head coach in NBA history and why should an entire city be called racist for the action of a few people.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

CRs right, every team has its own drunken fans its just that our team is used to winning, this is THE franchise not the new Charlotte team, trying to build, we are a team thats used to winning, so you expect more from the coach, the scouts, the owners, and the players.

I like Danny, but it was a weak decision calling the opponents during the playoffs, but then again they are great frineds, so I really can't blaim him.

No I don't like Pierce, Bremer, and Twan shooting 31%, but thats Ainges mistake already, he's given him a new contract, so if he can't get it into OB's head that ANY offense is needed to win anything, then we're stuck with the 31%.


----------



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

I can tell you right now that Larry Bird would not have come into Boston, called up the opposing team then talk bad about the team as a whole, saying they would fix the problem ON THE NIGHT OF THE BIGGEST GAME OF THE YEAR.

Larry Bird would not have made any comments about how bad the team was when they were about to play a playoff game. He would have waited and not run his mouth.
IMO Danny Ainge will do nothing for the Celtics in the next 3 years. He isn't going to find a trade for Vin Baker. Get us a big free agent PG and save this team because he can't do it with the current salary cap.

I'll put it this way. 
On the eve of your biggest project at work your current boss tells you that his boss is about to sell your company. It all hinges on the new project you are working on . The new boss thinks you all suck and have over achieved and that he is going to fire you regardless of how you do. How hard would you work on that project to hinge the sale? Would you feel like you were obligated?

This is what the Celtics owners did to the player. He had the new boss come in, say you all over achieved and that things were going to be turned around (hence half of you won't be here next year) He sabotaged them.
You think Antoine Walker didn't know what Danny said about him on TNT. Do you think Paul Pierce didn't know that Danny Ainge said this team would never win a championship with him and walker in charge.

What Danny and these owners did was not professional.

You wonder why Antoine played so bad those first few games against NJ . I am sure if we knew about the rumor the night of game 2 then the rumors were going around the Celtics players days before that (By the way Antoine. The new owners have already leaked information out about wanting you traded and the new guy in charge has already said you sucked a million times on TV but go out and win that playoff game)
You wonder why Paul Pierce looked so lost out on the floor game 4 during the over time. ( I interpreted it as Get used to it. In the future it is all on you when we trade Antoine. Here is your test) You don't think Pierce's speech about how proud he was to be a Celtic at the team meeting was done for a reason.

These guys were sabatoged.


Tommy Heinson bleeds Celtics green. Danny Ainge bleeds money.
His remarks on TNT were his own and his opinion as a commentator but when he is being paid by the Celtics orginization he is a jackass to come in here and insult this team on the biggest game of the season.


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Blasphemy!!!*

Actually, I don't wonder why Antoine was bad in Games 1, 2, and 3. I also don't wonder why Antoine has basically been Kenyon Martin's [email protected]#$ in virtually every meeting they have ever had.
As for renewing O'Brien's contract and saying they would bring back Antoine, that doesn't mean the 31% will continue. That means Danny had a chat w/Antoine, told him to get in shape and that he would be more of a post player, etc. Also, O'Brien has used this offense because of the personnel he has been given; when Danny adds some better offensive pieces, I would expect O'Brien, an old school coach, to employ some more appropriate facets to the offense.
As for Ainge's comments, I'm sorry the Celtics feelings got hurt, but if they had any fight in them, they could have used it as motivation to say, "We'll show them," and go out and play better. Bottom line: NJ was just better, and that's what Ainge was talking about: improving this team so we don't get embarassed on the parquet, so we can actually win a game against better teams (0-6 against Texas teams, 1-7 against NJ, etc.).
I have been going to Celtics games all of my life, and while the Celtics have been one of the most racially inclusionary organizations in the NBA, if not THE most, the fans, I'm sorry to say, are not. I have seen Antoine bust his *** out there since his rookie year, trying to win for these fans, and get booed and booed with players like Marty Conlon and JR Bremer starting games around him. It has subsided some since the Celts have made the playoffs, but if a white star was averaging 21, 8 and 5 they'd be erecting the statue right about now. 
As for the stupid actions of the drunken fans, I restate, they did nothing but show a lack of class and motivate Kidd and his mates to destroy us even more.
One thing I agree with you on: the owners made a big mistake announcing it when they did. Wallace has failed miserably in the draft; 2001 was horrible. But you can't tell me they couldn't have agreed in principle and kept their mouths shut until AFTER the Celts were eliminated. That's on the owners, not Danny.
Danny will turn things around. He was a good coach in Phoenix and he knows the players in this league. Being an analyst helps you do that. The guy is a true Celtic, and he cannot do any worse than Wallace. You say, "He cannot trade away Vin Baker," as if that's his fault. Red couldn't trade that contract. But I assure you he will rectify that situation, whether by cutting him, buying him out, or getting him to produce SOMETHING. ]
Long live Danny Ainge and long live the Celtics!!! Let's have a good draft; I see Dwayne Wade's stock is falling, maybe another star could fall into our laps! I think we could and should trade up into the 7-10 range. If not, we'll see how Danny does in the first go-round. Stop hating on Ainge and direct that hate toward Wyc Grousbeck and the wanna-be Mark Cubans! Stop hating on me, too! I LOVE THE CELTICS!!!


----------



## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> I can tell you right now that Larry Bird would not have come into Boston, called up the opposing team then talk bad about the team as a whole, saying they would fix the problem ON THE NIGHT OF THE BIGGEST GAME OF THE YEAR.
> 
> Larry Bird would not have made any comments about how bad the team was when they were about to play a playoff game. He would have waited and not run his mouth.
> ...



Dude, why do you have the blinders pulled so far over your eyes??? You continuously refer to the Game 4 in the series as the biggest game of the year. Man, that is pretty delusional. The series was done and the Celtics had no chance. If we weren't going to get swept, it didn't matter, there was no way in hell we were beating NJ. And no, this is not being disloyal or cutting down on my home team, it is called being honest and not being delusional. That is the biggest problem with Boston sports fans, we all get these grandiose visions and expectations in our heads based on past performance, and then freak out when we start to realize Rome wasn't built in a day. 


The fact is, this year and last year the better team beat us in the playoffs. GET OVER IT! Time to move on. 

Several other points. Walker played like ****. Period. I don't care for your lame excuses, here is a man getting paid millions to play basketball and you're worried about his feelings being hurt. What a joke. Fact is, Walker failed in this playoff series, we might have had a chance if he was playing lights out, but in fact it was the opposite, he looked burned out and tired. 

You have such negativity surrounding Danny Ainge. You state Larry wouldn't have said this or that, but how do you really know what Larry would say in the same situation. Do you know him personally? And if Danny Ainge can't do anything with the current cap situation, who could? Who might I ask should take over Ainge's job and would do much better, surely you must have a few names in mind if you are going to trash Ainge like this before he even gets started. 

Also, your analogy using the boss and employees is poor. Who is being fired on the Celtics?? So far, no one. In fact, OB is given a contract extension and Walker at least told he is not being traded, which is about as much as he can hope for after his pitiful playoff run this year and his refusal to learn how to take good shots.

You seem to have a lot of issues with Danny Ainge, perhaps you should write him a letter to get some of your frustrations off your back. They seem to be eating you up inside. Have a good one buddy.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Blasphemy!!!*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Stop hating on Ainge and direct that hate toward Wyc Grousbeck and the wanna-be Mark Cubans! Stop hating on me, too! I LOVE THE CELTICS!!!


Don't tell me we don't have any talent, we are not using the talent, or better yet we are using it wrong, will OBrien ever get that Brown CAN'T SHOOT THE ****ING 3?

Why hate on Wyc? The guy has payed a lot of money to buy this team, he's paying a lot of money now (Baker anyone?), and right after Gaston left he's gotten the best player in the NBDL (whatever its called), then he's used the money on other guys like Bimbo and Long. Don't attack the owners that have done more then enough, who in this world could fix all of Gastons, Pitions, and Wallaces boo-boos?


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*I'm glad Gaston is gone, but....*

Wyc and the FantasyGeeks have done a good job getting talent for the team, and were lucky they DIDN'T have to pay Baker's salary (when he was in rehab the last 30 games he didn't earn a dime), but they made numerous mistakes along the way, ie. not extending the assistants until midway thru first round, turning the locker room into their family play area, and, frankly, announcing the Ainge thing before they should have. Furthermore, they even went so far as to question O'Brien's coaching style during their infamous 6-game losing streak and have openly talked about players they want to draft. Oh, and the little issue of doubling and tripling some lower-level tickets to raise revenue. That's OK, though, because they plan on spending money on players, I hope. Please, guys, open up your checkbooks and get out of the way. Let Danny try to turn this thing around. Ooops, I forgot, we don't need to turn anything around, right guys?


----------



## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: I'm glad Gaston is gone, but....*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Ooops, I forgot, we don't need to turn anything around, right guys?


LOL, that was the funniest thing I read today. Good joke.


----------



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> You continuously refer to the Game 4 in the series as the biggest game of the year. Man, that is pretty delusional.


Umm I was talking about game 3 (The day they introduced Danny Ainge as the new head of basketball operations. Yes GAME 3 was the biggest game of the year so far. the Celtics needed that game to not get down 3 and 0 which would have been and was the eventual dagger in the Celtics. As for your GET OVER IT, Excuse me. This is my team. I can say what I want. You have no right to tell me to get over anything lol.



> Walker at least told he is not being traded, which is about as much as he can hope for after his pitiful playoff run this year and his refusal to learn how to take good shots.


Not quite. Antoine had 3 bad games in the playoffs all coming against New Jersey but he was the most consistant and best player on the floor in the first series against the Pacers with the exception of 3 quarters where he let Pierce take over. How quickly people forget. If it wasn't for Antoine and the first series there would have been no second series. Antoine shot 50% in game 4 and when he came out the team fell apart.[/quote]



> You seem to have a lot of issues with Danny Ainge, perhaps you should write him a letter to get some of your frustrations off your back. They seem to be eating you up inside. Have a good one buddy.


I thought this was a message board to talk about the Celtics.
Which is what I am doing.


----------



## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fair enough, we just have differing opinions on the state of the celtics now. 

I think Walker the Player needs to go. He hasn't learned shot selection, hoists way to many three's, refuses to play PF, still gets T'd up quite a bit, and isn't in top shape.

I think Walker the Teammate/Leader and the Person are awesome and should stay, but only if the Player can turn his act around.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> 
> 
> fair enough, we just have differing opinions on the state of the celtics now.
> ...


I'll answer all your questions with one name: O'Brien.

He lets Pierce and Walker to whatever they want. FIRE OB and get a new Coach. Carlisle anyone?


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> I'll answer all your questions with one name: O'Brien.
> ...


And I say Al Gore should be made President of the United States since he won the general election and the Supreme Court decided the whole thing. Why are we talking about firing O'Brien? He just got an extension LAST WEEK. I'm sorry, but move on. Danny Ainge had a conversation with Antoine telling him his new role. If Antoine doesn't change, he's gone. If he does, and we can get some talent around him that takes some of the ballhandling and shooting responsibilities, then we might have a team next year.
If O'Brien gets the talent he needs and it's still Isolation 101 on offense, he'll be gone, too.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> And I say Al Gore should be made President of the United States since he won the general election and the Supreme Court decided the whole thing. Why are we talking about firing O'Brien? He just got an extension LAST WEEK. I'm sorry, but move on. Danny Ainge had a conversation with Antoine telling him his new role. If Antoine doesn't change, he's gone. If he does, and we can get some talent around him that takes some of the ballhandling and shooting responsibilities, then we might have a team next year.
> If O'Brien gets the talent he needs and it's still Isolation 101 on offense, he'll be gone, too.


Did you by any chance see the coaches available??? Or at least that were available...???

Brown, Silas, and Carlisle. Don't tell me OB is better then them.

I will give OB another chance but he's no better coach then any of those 3 guys.

It will be hard getting rid of Twan. Heinsohn, Red and everyone else loves him.


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you by any chance see the coaches available??? Or at least that were available...???
> ...


 We are wasting our breath here. O'Brien is our coach, he's done a good job, Antoine is going to change or he's gone. Simple as that. As for the coaches that are available, at the time O'Brien signed his extension, Brown and Carlisle were under contract and doing a great job, as far as anyone knew. O'Brien will be fine as long as we get some depth. We don't have any depth. When NJ was bringing in Lucious Harris, Aaron Williams and Rodney Rogers, we were bringing in JR Bremer and Walter (I can't do anything if I'm guarded) McCarty. I love those guys, but it's tough to coach without depth. O'Brien will be fine.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> I'll answer all your questions with one name: O'Brien.
> ...



THAT would be too good! Too bad, Ainge was in a hurry to extend the contract of OBie - the celtics would like Carlisle - a lot! But I still think we have to be patient with Ainge - give him a year or 2 (after all, it has taken a few years to get the celtics into the mess it has been in since 1993) to try to change this franchise back to the winning tradition franchise it was for so long.


----------



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> Danny Ainge had a conversation with Antoine telling him his new role. If Antoine doesn't change, he's gone. If he does, and we can get some talent around him that takes some of the ballhandling and shooting responsibilities, then we might have a team next year.
> If O'Brien gets the talent he needs and it's still Isolation 101 on offense, he'll be gone, too.


Here is exactly where the problems begins, starts and ends all in one. SOME Celtics fans are not really Celtic fans they are Pierce fans. They talk about everything wrong with Walkers game but refuse to see what is right. They also refuse to acknowledge why his numbers are down. 
Since last year Antoine has taken a back seat to Paul Pierce. He hasn't whined or complained that the 4th quarter offensive plan is always to give the ball to Pierce with out question. Not mattering how he is shooting the first 3 quarters.

He has done exactly what his coach has asked of him. For all the people who says scoring is not the only thing that matters it is the first thing they mention when they try to blame Antoine for everything that is wrong with this team. (well his scoring is down)

One of these days Antoine isn't going to be on the Celtics anymore and Paul Pierce is going to have to be the fans whipping boy. The media's whipping boy and the person blamed for everything wrong with this team. I hope he handles it as well as Antoine has because if he can't handle it he won't re-sign with this team when the time comes and the "fans" will have only themselves to blame. Then again they will probably not be Celtics fans anymore anyway.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> Here is exactly where the problems begins, starts and ends all in one. SOME Celtics fans are not really Celtic fans they are Pierce fans. They talk about everything wrong with Walkers game but refuse to see what is right. They also refuse to acknowledge why his numbers are down.
> ...



You and I think a lot alike!


----------



## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

The reason that OB has a job and Carlisle does not is that the Boston players like and respect OB, while the Detroit players were happy to see Carlisle go. It's a players league. Ainge made the right decision.


----------



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> You and I think a lot alike!


Thank you. I think you just made my day.


I have this thing about about respect. A lot of people don't realize what life would be like for Paul if Antoine wasn't around.
They don't seem to respect the heart this kid has for the Celtics and the sport of basketball. They just want to blame him for everything. They don't want to even acknowledege what he brings to this team.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> Thank you. I think you just made my day.
> 
> ...


I have seen that kind of attitude myself. Walker brings more to the table than stats, 
he brings truly unselfish play - 
taking shots with the shot clock running down, 
setting up plays for his teammates - like a point guard, 
setting pics, 
scrambling for a loose ball,
taking a charge,
guarding tough opponents - meaning he covers up for the slow rotation of a teammate - ahem, also
boxing out so either he or his teammate gets a rebound, encouraging Paul and his teammates, and most of all, he has a quiet way of "leadership" that should remind people of Bill Russell.

I would hate to see him in another uniform and come back to haunt the Celtics with some or all of his attributes - such as his will to win.


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> Here is exactly where the problems begins, starts and ends all in one. SOME Celtics fans are not really Celtic fans they are Pierce fans. They talk about everything wrong with Walkers game but refuse to see what is right. They also refuse to acknowledge why his numbers are down.
> ...


The Celtics could trade Pierce tomorrow and if it made the Green better, I wouldn't fret. I am a Celtics fan, not a Pierce fan. My favorite player before O'Brien (not Wallace) showed him the door was Adrian Griffin. Paul Pierce killed us this year with his poor shooting. Were it not for a solid April, he would have finished at below .300 behind the 3-pt arc; he still finished worse than Antoine's horrible mark.
I am SO glad to see Antoine is coming back; how many players have the total package like him? Nobody. It is just that he could be better if he worked harder. Yes, his defense and leadership are vastly underrated, but please, do not even mention Russ in the same breath as this kid. Unselfish? How many technicals did he get this year? 25? 30? And he is NOT a good rebounder anymore. He has the best hands, and could be a better offensive rebounder. He has a big butt, but doesn't get enough on the defensive end. He has admitted to eating fried chicken EVERY DAY in the summers; it's time for that to stop. Walker will come back a different player and the Celtics will be better. It's that simple.
Pierce needs to take a month off, then rediscover his jump shot. Among other things. Just because my nickname is Truth34, don't hate me. I love Antoine just as much, probably more since he is the most senior Celtic in terms of being on the team. Look at my avatar!!!:upset: :upset:


----------



## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

Only four teams in the East made it to the second round of the playoffs. The Celtics were one of them. People can say anything they want about Walker hurting the team, but eleven other teams in the East can't claim they made it to the second round, and that's what matters. As long as Walker can take the criticism, which he's shown he can, he can still grow as a player. He's shown he can grow in other areas like leadership and maturity. I don't look at his technicals as being selfish, at least not anymore. I look at them as him having a passion for the game. He doesn't throw monitors or flip off the crowd ala Ron Artest. He argues calls and trash talks. A lot of players trash talk but don't get called for a technical. I remember Walker once got called for technical just because he looked at a ref the wrong way. That's ridiculous. I'd say Walker gets half of his technicals just because he's Walker and has a bad reputation with the refs. The Walker of today definitely isn't the Walker of three years ago, but the refs and fans can't let that image go.


----------



## CelticsRule (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> Here is exactly where the problems begins, starts and ends all in one. SOME Celtics fans are not really Celtic fans they are Pierce fans. They talk about everything wrong with Walkers game but refuse to see what is right. They also refuse to acknowledge why his numbers are down.
> ...


Great post, I completely agree. I hate all the fair weather fans who like walker when he's good and say get rid of him afetr a bad series.


----------



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> The Celtics could trade Pierce tomorrow and if it made the Green better, I wouldn't fret. I am a Celtics fan, not a Pierce fan. My favorite player before O'Brien (not Wallace) showed him the door was Adrian Griffin. Paul Pierce killed us this year with his poor shooting. Were it not for a solid April, he would have finished at below .300 behind the 3-pt arc; he still finished worse than Antoine's horrible mark.
> ...


With all due respect it is kind of hard to believe you are a Celtics fan and not just a Pierce fan when this is the first time I have ever read you say anything remotely positive about Antoine games.
In fact a lot of your posts are putting down Antoine to make Pierce look better.

I love Paul Pierce as much as Walker but I didn't have to point out what is wrong with Pierce's game to make Antoine look better. There is no point to that.


Celtics fans have always gotten on Antoines case for the trash talking. It is part of his game. It was also even a bigger part of Larry Birds game. He was notorious for trash talk (Do anything including physcological war fare to get the upper hand (Sorry I know I spelled physcological war fare wrong lol but I don't have time to look it up) So is and was Reggie Miller. When Pierce was trash talking recently in a playoff game the announcers and fans applauded him for it after the game. There seems to be a huge double standard when it comes to Antoine in this town and everyone else.

As for techincals. Yes Antoine does run his mouth alot but if you watch a lot of these games he gets technicals for just saying anything but it is perfectly okay for other players to say whatever they want and get away with it. Pierce is the first one to the refs if he doesn't like a call but he doesn't have Antoine reputation so it never gets him a technical.


I happen to like the dynamic duo of Pierce and Walker. There a team . I just wish people would realize it takes a team to win and start giving credit to everyone.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> Only four teams in the East made it to the second round of the playoffs. The Celtics were one of them. People can say anything they want about Walker hurting the team, but eleven other teams in the East can't claim they made it to the second round, and that's what matters. As long as Walker can take the criticism, which he's shown he can, he can still grow as a player. He's shown he can grow in other areas like leadership and maturity. I don't look at his technicals as being selfish, at least not anymore. I look at them as him having a passion for the game. He doesn't throw monitors or flip off the crowd ala Ron Artest. He argues calls and trash talks. A lot of players trash talk but don't get called for a technical. <b> I remember Walker once got called for technical just because he looked at a ref the wrong way. </b> That's ridiculous. I'd say Walker gets half of his technicals just because he's Walker and has a bad reputation with the refs. <u>The Walker of today definitely isn't the Walker of three years ago, but the refs and fans can't let that image go.</u>



I agree and I remember that game and how the ref blew the whistle and the camera showed Walker as looking at the ref - not saying one word! 

Good reply!


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*You guys think it ain't broke?*

The bottom line here is there is no talent around these guys. Maybe if we get a point guard and a post scorer Antoine and Paul will be even better. I don't care how many teams in the east didn't make the playoffs. The east has NEVER been weaker. Big deal. 
Antoine is a good player. Why do you get a technical call for looking at a ref wrong? I don't know. Maybe he's developed a reputation. Yes, Larry trash-talked. Did he dance after making threes? Put his finger to his lips and shoosh the enemy crowd? Wiggle? Don't get me wrong, I love all that stuff, but Antoine is a baby. After he gets rejected on the baseline, he'll look at the refs and whine while the other team gets off and running. Pierce does the same thing, although not as much.
I covered Antoine in college--same thing. Amazing talent, but a primadonna for sure. I'm not saying this because Kenyon manhandled him--I'm just saying he needs to mature. Yes, getting technicals is selfish. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. "At least he's not Artest," is not an adequate excuse for me. The less you whine, over time, the more calls you get, and the less you hurt the team.
Call me fair-weather if you want. The season started, and ended, in the New Jersey series. Getting 44 wins against the Bulls, Cavaliers, Hornets, Heat, etc. does not impress me. I think we have a right to expect our team not to get blown out at home in the playoffs. I think it's OK to ask questions. You guys are acting like those FOX News/uberconservative types who question the patriotism of anyone questioning the reasoning for going to war. Fair-weather, that's a joke. I've forgotten more about the Celtics than half of you will ever now. Antoine is one of my favorite players; I've met him many times and he even did something very special for my daughter once. But he needs to grow up, and so do you.


----------



## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: You guys think it ain't broke?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> The bottom line here is there is no talent around these guys. Maybe if we get a point guard and a post scorer Antoine and Paul will be even better. I don't care how many teams in the east didn't make the playoffs. The east has NEVER been weaker. Big deal.
> Antoine is a good player. Why do you get a technical call for looking at a ref wrong? I don't know. Maybe he's developed a reputation. Yes, Larry trash-talked. Did he dance after making threes? Put his finger to his lips and shoosh the enemy crowd? Wiggle? Don't get me wrong, I love all that stuff, but Antoine is a baby. After he gets rejected on the baseline, he'll look at the refs and whine while the other team gets off and running. Pierce does the same thing, although not as much.
> I covered Antoine in college--same thing. Amazing talent, but a primadonna for sure. I'm not saying this because Kenyon manhandled him--I'm just saying he needs to mature. Yes, getting technicals is selfish. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. "At least he's not Artest," is not an adequate excuse for me. The less you whine, over time, the more calls you get, and the less you hurt the team.
> Call me fair-weather if you want. The season started, and ended, in the New Jersey series. Getting 44 wins against the Bulls, Cavaliers, Hornets, Heat, etc. does not impress me. I think we have a right to expect our team not to get blown out at home in the playoffs. I think it's OK to ask questions. You guys are acting like those FOX News/uberconservative types who question the patriotism of anyone questioning the reasoning for going to war. Fair-weather, that's a joke. I've forgotten more about the Celtics than half of you will ever now. Antoine is one of my favorite players; I've met him many times and he even did something very special for my daughter once. But he needs to grow up, and so do you.


EXCELLENT POST, I am rating this one 5.


----------



## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

To reinforce the truth of what Truth34 said, here is the Celtics' salary structure as of 1/9/03 (before they traded Shammond Williams, etc.), as reported by Patricia Bender on her well-known website.

Boston Celtics Total: $52,423,200
Vin Baker .................. $12,375,000
Antoine Walker ..........$12,375,000
Paul Pierce ................ $10,067,750
Eric Williams .............. $5,004,000
Tony Battie ................ $4,000,000
Tony Delk .................. $2,700,000
Shammond Williams ... $2,000,000
Kedrick Brown .............$1,643,040
Walter McCarty ...........$762,435 [minimum, counts $637,435]
Bruno Sundov ..............$637,435 [minimum]
Ruben Wolkowyski ......$587,435 [minimum]
J.R. Bremer ................ $349,458 [minimum]
Mikki Moore ................ $46,642 [signed 10-day 1/6]

Sixty-six percent (roughly 2/3) of their payroll dollars goes to three players, one of whom contributes zero. The balance, roughly $17.6 M., is divided among the other ten players.

The NBA is just like anyplace else. You get what yo pay for. And the Celtics are very lucky that guys like McCarty and Bremer contributed so much while making so little. In fact, I would argue that dollar-for-dollar they are among the best bargains in the NBA.
IMHO the only guys that provided more bang for the buck last year were Carlos Boozer ($349k) and Gilbert Arenas ($512k-- but that will change bigtime this year).


----------



## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: You guys think it ain't broke?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> The bottom line here is there is no talent around these guys. Maybe if we get a point guard and a post scorer Antoine and Paul will be even better. I don't care how many teams in the east didn't make the playoffs. The east has NEVER been weaker. Big deal.
> Antoine is a good player. Why do you get a technical call for looking at a ref wrong? I don't know. Maybe he's developed a reputation. Yes, Larry trash-talked. Did he dance after making threes? Put his finger to his lips and shoosh the enemy crowd? Wiggle? Don't get me wrong, I love all that stuff, but Antoine is a baby. After he gets rejected on the baseline, he'll look at the refs and whine while the other team gets off and running. Pierce does the same thing, although not as much.
> I covered Antoine in college--same thing. Amazing talent, but a primadonna for sure. I'm not saying this because Kenyon manhandled him--I'm just saying he needs to mature. Yes, getting technicals is selfish. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. "At least he's not Artest," is not an adequate excuse for me. The less you whine, over time, the more calls you get, and the less you hurt the team.
> Call me fair-weather if you want. The season started, and ended, in the New Jersey series. Getting 44 wins against the Bulls, Cavaliers, Hornets, Heat, etc. does not impress me. I think we have a right to expect our team not to get blown out at home in the playoffs. I think it's OK to ask questions. You guys are acting like those FOX News/uberconservative types who question the patriotism of anyone questioning the reasoning for going to war. Fair-weather, that's a joke. I've forgotten more about the Celtics than half of you will ever now. Antoine is one of my favorite players; I've met him many times and he even did something very special for my daughter once. But he needs to grow up, and so do you.


I never said they weren't broken, and I never said Walker was perfect. All I'm saying is Walker is not the root of all their problems like some people tend to believe he is (and I'm not even accusing you of being one of them - mainly the media and fair-weather fans). Walker has a bad rep that he can't shake. I am convinced that Walker has matured. Not fully, but he has made progress. If he hadn't matured, I doubt the Celtics would have made the playoffs the last two years, even in a weak conference. He still questions calls. He still looks at refs the wrong way. He still holds up a finger to quiet the crowd. He still does the wiggle, though much less than he used to. However, I have seen this behavior from lots of other players who do not get technicals for them. Is it necessary? No. Is it part of the game? Yes. Occasionally, Walker goes too far and a technical is warranted, but the refs seem to call technicals on behavior that is normally acceptable as well. Other players confront refs and get in their faces, and the refs just ignore it. Walker has toned it down, but he still gets called for a lot of stuff. He certainly has room to tone it down some more, but I'm of the belief that if he loses some of that passion it could hurt his game and the team more than a technical does. Sometimes, you need motivation out there in the heat of a game. Players get that motivation in various ways. Pierce seems to get it when he's had a bad game or gets knocked down. Walker gets it by arguing and feeding off the crowd. Once Walker gets pumped up, his game improves and he's able to motivate his teammates as well. Arguing doesn't always work, but it's what he does. The reason I brought up Artest is that Artest doesn't get technicals because he's trying to get pumped up. He gets technicals because he's angry, and then he gets kicked out of games and suspended. Walker's technicals are totally different, and he rarely gets kicked out of games, much less suspended. No, Walker should not purposely get technicals, and I doubt he does, but with a player like him, he can get caught up with emotion. My argument is that it's not always a bad thing to have that emotion, and sometimes the refs have to let some of it slide because they let it slide with so many other players. 

Of course the Celtics can get better. That wasn't my point. My point was that the Celtics made it to the playoffs and to the second round in part because they have a guy like Walker on their team, not despite that. Walker can improve as can anyone else on the team, and I believe he will. I don't think anybody's arguing that they'll be just fine the way they are. If they get more talent that fits in with the team chemistry, I think everyone will naturally play better.


----------



## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> To reinforce the truth of what Truth34 said, here is the Celtics' salary structure as of 1/9/03 (before they traded Shammond Williams, etc.), as reported by Patricia Bender on her well-known website.
> 
> Boston Celtics Total: $52,423,200
> ...


Thanks a lot. Now, after seeing this print I want to cry. Trading for Vin Baker will go down as one of the worst possible trades in the last ten years. He is finished playing bball. The Celtics just have a really bad history of moves the last few years.

I mean, look at the players Pitino passed over in the draft. Had a look? Wipe your eyes, there are a lot of great guys we missed with these schmucks running the office. Not to mention the stiffs we signed. Who in their right mind would give a guy like Travis Knight the money that we did. Honestly, I would not blame people for calling us the laughingstock of the league, for the last few years the Celts have made a lot of moves that other people wouldn't dare have and left everyone rubbing their foreheads asking "why?" 


IT IS TIME TO CUT AWAY THE FAT AND TRY AND MAKE HEADWAY TOWARDS UNDOING THE IMMENSE DAMAGE THAT RICK PITINO AND CHRIS WALLACE HAVE DONE. I think it might be about another 3-4 years before we have a legitimate shot at winning the East if we do not make the right moves in the next 6-8 months. This is crunch time.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot. Now, after seeing this print I want to cry. Trading for Vin Baker will go down as one of the worst possible trades in the last ten years. He is finished playing bball. The Celtics just have a really bad history of moves the last few years.
> ...



I agree! Some of the most bonehead trades were made and the draft has been bad, too. I remember so many fans had hope a couple years ago when we had 3 of the top 20 or so pick:

Kedrick
Joe Johnson
Forte

<b>Where are those 3 now?</b> I know - I know, Kedrick is still here, but somehow OBie does not inspire young, raw, new players.

One could only hope, but truly letting Anderson go with his HUGE, unearned salary for a worse salary and a worse contributor than Anderson was a <b>"stick the knife in the back & TWIST it" last act by Gaston </b>to screw the celtics and their fans!

It'll take Ainge a couple years to undo the damage of the last 10+ years.


----------



## CelticsRule (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The sad thing about those three guys is the Celtics could have had Tony Parker, Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Jamaal Tinsley, Jason Collins, Gilbert Arenas, or Zach Randolph!
:sigh:


----------



## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

or they could have waited a year for denvers pick and got Amare!!


----------



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

*Re: You guys think it ain't broke?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Did he dance after making threes? Put his finger to his lips and shoosh the enemy crowd? Wiggle? Don't get me wrong, I love all that stuff, but Antoine is a baby. After he gets rejected on the baseline, he'll look at the refs and whine while the other team gets off and running. Pierce does the same thing, although not as much.


Antoine barely did the wiggle this year. In fact I only remember it happening once (Though I know it happened more then that)
I happen to like Antoine's wiggle. Just like I loved Mutumbo's finger pointing and Pierce's grunting, standing over a player and staring(sp) him down after a good play and pounding his chest.
It's part of the NBA these days. You act like Walker is the only one to ever Celebrate a play. [/quote]



> I'm just saying he needs to mature.


Please don't take my next words with a bad attitude because it is going to seem like I mean it that way but I don't. I have a lot of passion for this team and what I am about to say is going to come out with a bad tone but I really don't mean it that way)
Here it goes. 
BAD ATTITUDE, Antoine has matured so much the last three years. He isn't anything like the kid they drafted in 96. He has taken a back seat and let Paul Pierce have the spotlight.
Instead of turning the Celtics into the LA Lakers of a few years back (because of Kobe and Shaq both wanting the Lakers to be their teams) he never even let that situation appear. He has done an amazing amount of maturing that you are not giving him an ounce of credit for. 
Antoine has a lot of passion for this game and he wants to win so badly. I don't get how anyone can hate that.[/quote]




> But he needs to grow up, and so do you.


 I think you are taking this too personally.
I am sorry if I said anything that offended you.


I for one am glad to finally see some people give Antoine some credit. This has to be the first basketball forum I have ever posted on to give this kid ANY credit for anything.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: You guys think it ain't broke?*



> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> Antoine barely did the wiggle this year. In fact I only remember it happening once (Though I know it happened more then that)
> I happen to like Antoine's wiggle. Just like I loved Mutumbo's finger pointing and Pierce's grunting, standing over a player and staring(sp) him down after a good play and pounding his chest.
> It's part of the NBA these days. You act like Walker is the only one to ever Celebrate a play.


Yeah the Mutumbo thing is great, lol. I remember once when Battie rejected someone he did the finger thing, and got a T for it. I was :laugh: for a very long time. Don't forget D. Miles head thing, Richardson's head thing, Jason Kidd's kiss, Kenny Anderson holding his head while shooting a FT.....etc.


----------



## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: You guys think it ain't broke?*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah the Mutumbo thing is great, lol. I remember once when Battie rejected someone he did the finger thing, and got a T for it. I was :laugh: for a very long time. Don't forget D. Miles head thing, Richardson's head thing, Jason Kidd's kiss, Kenny Anderson holding his head while shooting a FT.....etc.


Jason Kidd's kiss IMO is just plain stupid (PR from the Kidd family. What a joke)
but I love the others.


----------



## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

*How can you call Celtics fan racists*

At least they support their team that is all African-American, doesn't seem like they are racists at all.

Drunk maybe, but not racists.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: You guys think it ain't broke?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> The bottom line here is there is no talent around these guys. Maybe if we get a point guard and a post scorer Antoine and Paul will be even better. I don't care how many teams in the east didn't make the playoffs. The east has NEVER been weaker. Big deal.
> Antoine is a good player. Why do you get a technical call for looking at a ref wrong? I don't know. Maybe he's developed a reputation. Yes, <b>Larry trash-talked. Did he dance after making threes? Put his finger to his lips and shoosh the enemy crowd? Wiggle? </b> Don't get me wrong, I love all that stuff, but Antoine is a baby. After he gets rejected on the baseline, he'll look at the refs and whine while the other team gets off and running. Pierce does the same thing, although not as much.
> I covered Antoine in college--same thing. Amazing talent, but a primadonna for sure. I'm not saying this because Kenyon manhandled him--I'm just saying he needs to mature. Yes, getting technicals is selfish. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. "At least he's not Artest," is not an adequate excuse for me. The less you whine, over time, the more calls you get, and the less you hurt the team.
> Call me fair-weather if you want. The season started, and ended, in the New Jersey series. Getting 44 wins against the Bulls, Cavaliers, Hornets, Heat, etc. does not impress me. <b> I think we have a right to expect our team not to get blown out at home in the playoffs. I think it's OK to ask questions.</b> You guys are acting like those FOX News/uberconservative types who question the patriotism of anyone questioning the reasoning for going to war. Fair-weather, that's a joke. I've forgotten more about the Celtics than half of you will ever now. Antoine is one of my favorite players; I've met him many times and he even did something very special for my daughter once. But he needs to grow up, and <strike>so do you</strike>.



I agree, Larry did not wiggle, but he did shoosh opponents, as I saw him do that more than a few times. BUT - nevertheless, wiggles after 3s today is the same as throwing one's arms in the air. People shoot MANY MORE 3s today than they did in the 80s, as you know.

BTW, whatever wiggles and trash talking has to do with their game is a boring debate, imho. I don't really care how much they wiggle or don't wiggle - anymore than i care how hard a runningback smashes the football on the ground and does a dance and a jig after a TD.

You are right about fans having a right to say what they will about the team they love! You have a right to your opinion - as long as you don't tell me to grow up. 

I like the way you defend the celtics and I also like the way you rip into them. You're right about not settling for going 0/4 in the semis - <b>we're the spoiled ones - we want what we once had. </b>


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>celticsrule0873</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DON'T remind us - 
Zach is finally getting playing time and proving to be the PF I thought he could become. He'll get better and better. 

Arenas was a favorite of mine from his first games as a warrior - man that kid will ONLY get better, too. 

Troy Murphy is proving to be a beast on the boards - OUT WEST, folks, out west......oh, the pain of it all.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: How can you call Celtics fan racists*



> Originally posted by <b>benfica</b>!
> At least they support their team that is all African-American, doesn't seem like they are racists at all.
> 
> Drunk maybe, but not racists.


Where in this thread did that happen? Did someone call an entire fan base "racist"??? If a poster did that, it needs an edit. Just send me th url and the user name via pm.


----------

