# Mark Jackson future HOFer?



## CY02 (Dec 26, 2002)

I was wondering if Mark Jackson who became just the third NBA player to reach 10,000 career assists today (and should be 2nd in all time list season ends) will get into the HOF?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

btw, mark jackson will not make the hall of fame.

he's been a rather mediocre player most of his career. assists notwithstanding.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Mark Jackson has done alot in his career. Many things that can be easily overlooked like being a top 3 assist man of all time or being the rookie of the year back in 87. He has been a member of great teams, he made it to the finals and post some respectible numbers. He also lead the league in assist, and was an allstar. He may not have had a up echelon career like Magic, but he is a great point guard. Mark Jackson will find his way into the hall of fame.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> Mark Jackson has done alot in his career. Many things that can be easily overlooked like being a top 3 assist man of all time or being the rookie of the year back in 87. He has been a member of great teams, he made it to the finals and post some respectible numbers. He also lead the league in assist, and was an allstar. He may not have had a up echelon career like Magic, but he is a great point guard. Mark Jackson will find his way into the hall of fame.



I agree, Mark Jackson is a Hall of Famer. It seems nowadays the fans look more for the flare than the substance. Jackson is a true, pass first, point guard and has been at or near the top assist spot throughout his career.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

mark jackson has probably never in his career been among the 5 best at his postition, or among the 25 best players in the league at any time. most of his career it's arguable as to whether he's been top 10 or top 50 respectively. terrible defensively, 10ppg. like i said, mediocre player.

he has a nice accomplishment. he's enjoyed a long career. that certainly doesn't translate to a hall-of-fame spot. he should relish in his accomplishment and his spot on a list. that's it.

you guys can't be serious about jackson being a hall-of-famer.


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## Hitman (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> mark jackson has probably never in his career been among the 5 best at his postition, or among the 25 best players in the league at any time. most of his career it's arguable as to whether he's been top 10 or top 50 respectively. terrible defensively, 10ppg. like i said, mediocre player.
> 
> he has a nice accomplishment. he's enjoyed a long career. that certainly doesn't translate to a hall-of-fame spot. he should relish in his accomplishment and his spot on a list. that's it.
> ...


Agree 100%

I can't see Mark Jackson making the HOF and Chris Mullin not making it. If he does make it then the Hall of Fame is not about what I thought it was.

Hitman


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> mark jackson has probably never in his career been among the 5 best at his postition, or among the 25 best players in the league at any time. most of his career it's arguable as to whether he's been top 10 or top 50 respectively. terrible defensively, 10ppg. like i said, mediocre player.
> 
> he has a nice accomplishment. he's enjoyed a long career. that certainly doesn't translate to a hall-of-fame spot. he should relish in his accomplishment and his spot on a list. that's it.
> ...


We are serious. I wouldn't be surprise if he gets passed over once maybe even twice, but he should be a hall of famer. From 88 - 92, Jackson may have been a top 5 at his position. 

Magic
Stockton
Kevin Johnson
Isiah
Mark Jackson - If he wasn't top five then he was definately top ten

10ppg isn't so bad for a point guard. Then factor in 10ppg, 8apg, 4rpg, 1+spg and isn't a bad career average for a point guard considering he has played for a long time. Mark is a great player, he's got the accomplishments that say so. He will probably surpase Magic as the second alltime leading assist man. How can you be have more assist than everyone who ever played the game, but 1, and not make it to the Hall? He's in.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> We are serious. I wouldn't be surprise if he gets passed over once maybe even twice, but he should be a hall of famer. From 88 - 92, Jackson may have been a top 5 at his position.
> ...


Perfect!!!!! Mark Jackson is and was one of the better PG's between 88-93. Teams used to hate when it was a close game and he would back they're Point Guard down and win many, many games with that lil jump twisting hook. He used to kill my fav teams with that


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> We are serious. I wouldn't be surprise if he gets passed over once maybe even twice, but he should be a hall of famer. From 88 - 92, Jackson may have been a top 5 at his position.
> ...


you forgot mark price, terry porter, tim hardaway, derek harper, fat lever, sleepy floyd, doc rivers and close calls like mugsy bogues, vern fleming, nate mcmillan, sherman douglas, johnny dawkins, darrell walker, kenny smith.

he made 1 all-star game. you're calling the guy a great player and he made 1 all-star game. his accomplishments say he did 1 thing well for a long time. being a decent player for a long time doesn't turn you into a great player.

as for his late game heroics, he was often on the bench for defensive purposes. when he wasn't, he was just as likely to get burned than to make the play.

the guy was medoicre. any way you look at it. half his career (9 seasons) his team didn't entrust him to play 30 mins per game. his stats are mediocre, and because he was a defensive liability, probably overstate his value.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Yes, he's HOF material IMO. He's made the playoffs 12 of 15 years even though he's played for the Clippers, Nuggets, Raptors, and some crappy Knick teams recently. He and Stockton are #1 and #2 in the NBA in assists per 48 minutes, and the result is a team offense that works on all four cylinders for the whole game and the Jazz are winning some tough games.

I don't think you can ignore a guy who will (barring injury) finish his career as the 2nd all-time assist leader. For that matter, you can't ignore Chris Mullin, either =).


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> you forgot mark price, terry porter, tim hardaway, derek harper, fat lever, sleepy floyd, doc rivers and close calls like mugsy bogues, vern fleming, nate mcmillan, sherman douglas, johnny dawkins, darrell walker, kenny smith.


I didn't forget about those guys, Jackson was arguably just as good as all of them. 



> he made 1 all-star game. you're calling the guy a great player and he made 1 all-star game. his accomplishments say he did 1 thing well for a long time. being a decent player for a long time doesn't turn you into a great player.


This is probably the only knock against him. If you don't want to call him great, I completely understand, but he was at least a very good point guard. And the fact that he does exclude himself from other player by having the second in all time career assist he should get into the Hall.


If Drazon Petrovic is in the Hall of fame, Mark Jackson will make it.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> mugsy bogues, vern fleming, nate mcmillan, sherman douglas, johnny dawkins, darrell walker, kenny smith


He was better than all of those guys. He was a specialty player and you cannot deny his late game heroics as he has done it time and time again throughout the course of his career. The defensive liabilty that you speak of, well him being taken out of games has only been happening the last 3-4 years. NOT when he was a top 5 PG. Plenty of specialty players are in the HOF


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

i think you guys are looking at a single accomplishment and not assessing his value as a player, and where he ranks in his era. if you assess his value relative to others of his era, he must fall way short. again, for much of his career, he was arguably not among the top *50* players in the league. it becomes hard to justify a hof selection, imo, when that's the type of player he was.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

we will just have to wait and see, but I'm sure Jackson will be a Hall of famer.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

This is a great debate...in the end his 10, 000 carrer assists are incredible but would then how about Rod Strickland who is closing on 8, 000 and can still arguably reach 10, 000. Jackson has a great gritty player but HOF...I don't know. I agree that he should deserve special recognition for reaching that milestone but I seriously do not see Jackson as a HOFer. But then I say that about Lenny too. This ones a hard one. I will say this though his milestone has created the credibility he has long deserved but if he never reached 10, 000 would he be in the HOF?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> This is a great debate...in the end his 10, 000 carrer assists are incredible but would then how about Rod Strickland who is closing on 8, 000 and can still arguably reach 10, 000. Jackson has a great gritty player but HOF...I don't know. I agree that he should deserve special recognition for reaching that milestone but I seriously do not see Jackson as a HOFer. But then I say that about Lenny too. This ones a hard one. I will say this though his milestone has created the credibility he has long deserved but if he never reached 10, 000 would he be in the HOF?


I knew Rod Strickland would could up. I dont think Rod will make the Hall. He does have the numbers assist wise, but he is a cancer. Every team he has played for has had sometype of downfall. He has been a bad guy in the media's eye, he doesn't come to practice, he's always getting high. Those things will keep Rod out.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> I knew Rod Strickland would could up. I dont think Rod will make the Hall. He does have the numbers assist wise, but he is a cancer. Every team he has played for has had sometype of downfall. He has been a bad guy in the media's eye, he doesn't come to practice, he's always getting high. Those things will keep Rod out.


Agreed there were some typos in my post I meant Rod would not get my vote but he does have similar and better numbers than Jackson is most areas. His dedication however has damaged his reputation. The question we should be asking is if Jackson never reached the 10, 000 plateau would we even ask this question?


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

No way.

10000 is great and all, but what else?

Making the playoffs 12 out of 15 years is great but not enough.

Great PG, but certainly not HOF material... he has a decent chance to get on the ballot, but even during a slow year I don't think he could garner enough votes.

As well he shouldn't IMO.

STuart


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

oh another thing... do you think any of the teams that he played for would retire his jersey? I think that answer is a no also... and thats several levels below the HOF in regards to recognition.

STuart


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

It's conceivable that the Knicks would in light of their few years of championship contention, but who knows.


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> It's conceivable that the Knicks would in light of their few years of championship contention, but who knows.


conceivable... but not likely. IMO

STuart


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

the knicks years of contention coincided with getting rid of jackson.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> the knicks years of contention coincided with getting rid of jackson.


Truth.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't forget about those guys, Jackson was arguably just as good as all of them.


there's no way jackson was as good as price, porter, harper, & hardaway. not as good as lever either.

btw, petro's in because he was one of the best european players ever. not because of his nba career (although he was a far far better nba player than jackson).


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't forget about those guys, Jackson was arguably just as good as all of them.
> ...



Drazen Pertrovic would have had a HOF career he his life was not cut short.


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## BizzyRipsta (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Drazen Pertrovic would have had a HOF career he his life was not cut short.


that, and he paved the road for future european nba players.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Drazen Pertrovic would have had a HOF career he his life was not cut short.


Agreed.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CY02</b>!
> I was wondering if Mark Jackson who became just the third NBA player to reach 10,000 career assists today (and should be 2nd in all time list season ends) will get into the HOF?


I would venture a guess as to "Yes", eventually it will happen. He was rookie of the year - also holding the record for most assists by a rookie, and add that to his total career assists, then I think that "eventually" comes to mind concerning the HOF for Mark.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

would you at least agree that he wouldn't get in for his value as a player, but for a single accomplishment? for example, pick another player of comparable value on the court, say detlef shrempf (for arguments sake, although i think detlef was definitely better), or even a better player like terry porter (who played the same position), and without the assists accomplishment they don't make it. yet jackson makes it, not because of his value as a player, but because he had alot of a single stat?

food for thought - eaton and tree rollins retired near the top of the block shot record, and alvin robertson near the top of the steals record. would they be hof material (i do realize steals and blocks weren't recorded prior to '73 i believe)?


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> would you at least agree that he wouldn't get in for his value as a player, but for a single accomplishment? for example, pick another player of comparable value on the court, say detlef shrempf (for arguments sake, although i think detlef was definitely better), or even a better player like terry porter (who played the same position), and without the assists accomplishment they don't make it. yet jackson makes it, not because of his value as a player, but because he had alot of a single stat?
> 
> food for thought - eaton and tree rollins retired near the top of the block shot record, and alvin robertson near the top of the steals record. would they be hof material (i do realize steals and blocks weren't recorded prior to '73 i believe)?


Oh, I do agree with you, KFLO. 

Longevity plays a big part in some who "eventually" make it to the HOF - as well it should count for something.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

but rifleman, porter for example played as long as jackson, he just doesn't have the total assists. overall better player for as long a period, but less assists. so jackson's in and porter's not? and again they played the same position.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Terry Porter's Career Stats

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/terry_porter/printable_player_files.html

Mark Jackson's Career Stats

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/163/

you decide


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Terry Porter's Career Stats
> 
> http://www.nba.com/playerfile/terry_porter/printable_player_files.html
> ...


10,000 assists is amazing. Thats great, but another amazing stat is AC Green's consecutive game streak, he mirrors Mark Jackson in that they were both ok players and played in an all-star game... but AC won 3 championships... does AC get in?

Man, I hope not.

STuart


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> but rifleman, porter for example played as long as jackson, he just doesn't have the total assists. overall better player for as long a period, but less assists. so jackson's in and porter's not? and again they played the same position.


Who's to say that Porter won't also make the HOF, eventually?


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>s a b a s 11</b>!
> 
> 
> 10,000 assists is amazing. Thats great, but another amazing stat is AC Green's consecutive game streak, he mirrors Mark Jackson in that they were both ok players and played in an all-star game... but AC won 3 championships... does AC get in?
> ...


To me, that comparison is not a good one. One is a guy who is fortunate enough to have a body that withstands the rigors of the NBA, the other is one of only 3 people to reach 10,000 assists lifetime.

I would rather see a comparison of Porter, Jackson, Blaylock, Stockton, Tiny Archibald, Thomas - they are all SMALL Point guards, whose main job is to get assists - not play in consecutive games.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Terry Porter's Career Stats
> 
> http://www.nba.com/playerfile/terry_porter/printable_player_files.html
> ...


Thanks for supplying that info, as the two look pretty similar to me.


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## Hitman (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> Who's to say that Porter won't also make the HOF, eventually?


Anyone that respects the sanctity of the Hall of Fame.

Mark Jackson can not get in the hall of fame. Even his backers are saying "he was a very good point guard." Folks, throughout the majority of his NBA career there were ten active point guards or more who were better than Mark Jackson. He was never All NBA, he never won an NBA title, he was a defensive liability, he never struck fear in the hearts of opponents...but he was a really good passer who managed to stick around for a long time. 

Is Dave Kingman in the baseball Hall of Fame? He was really good at one thing - hitting home runs, and he hit 500 of them. No way.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hitman</b>!
> 
> 
> Anyone that respects the sanctity of the Hall of Fame.
> ...


Nice argument - BUT they have players in the HOF who can't lace Jackson's shoes! 

<b>Take KC Jones, who scored 7 points a game and ....4.3 assists per game as a point guard - total assists, 2908!!! He was never an all star, he made no 1st or 2ns all NBA selections, he scored only 5011 points total in his 9 years pf playing for the Celtics.

HE is in the HOF.</b> One just never knows who will get in the HOF.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

kc is always the example for a reason to open the floodgates.

we all know kc wouldn't be in if his teams didn't win 8 titles in his 9 year career. he was also known for his defense.

kc mistakingly making it isn't reason enough to lower the standards for everyone. jackson making it would open the door for many, many better players on the outside looking in.


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## Hitman (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> kc is always the example for a reason to open the floodgates.
> 
> we all know kc wouldn't be in if his teams didn't win 8 titles in his 9 year career. he was also known for his defense.
> ...


Exactly.

The Hall of Fame should be for the All Time Greats. If you use KC Jones as an example, then maybe Rober Horry deserves a spot. If Horry deserves a sport, maybe Ron Harper should be there as well. Of course if you give a spot to Harper, do you then consider Kenny Smith? Maybe we should throw Jackson in with these guys...I would get goose bumps just walking into those hallowed halls in Springfield...  

Hitman


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> To me, that comparison is not a good one. One is a guy who is fortunate enough to have a body that withstands the rigors of the NBA, the other is one of only 3 people to reach 10,000 assists lifetime.


It is, when the sole argument is that Mark Jackson accumulated 10,000 assists. AC Green has a just as impressive mark, maybe even more since he has no peers in that category. After those 
categories, their accolades are pretty much the same.

STuart


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## CY02 (Dec 26, 2002)

This begs into another question: Will and should Dennis Rodman (another speciality player) get into the Hall?


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CY02</b>!
> This begs into another question: Will and should Dennis Rodman (another speciality player) get into the Hall?


I believe Rodman deserves it... he lead the league in reb for what 8 straight years at 6-8? Not only that he was a GREAT defensive player, winning the DPOY twice? He was an integral player on 5 championship teams and was a character the NBA will never forget.

He has the HOF in spades when compared to Action Jackson and AC Green

STuart


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## brad-z (Jan 2, 2003)

This isn't fair, and I don't get to vote anyway, so it doesn't really matter. But, I will use that Supreme Court thing when they decide what is obscene. They say they know it when they see it. I just don't see Mark Jackson making it. If he does, cool. If not, better. 

I think Terry Porter was about 6'3, I thought I saw someone say he was a small point guard??


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## CY02 (Dec 26, 2002)

BTW, I read somewhere that Willis (currently at Spurs) is a future HOFer. I don't know what credentials he has.  I think if someone like can get in, then Mark Jackson won't have much problem.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CY02</b>!
> BTW, I read somewhere that Willis (currently at Spurs) is a future HOFer. I don't know what credentials he has.  I think if someone like can get in, then Mark Jackson won't have much problem.


Whoa if Willis is a HOFer then Thorpe and Oak should be considered as well. Willis was a solid player with a couple allstar years. He had one incredible year where he hauled like 16 boards and scored 18 points per game. His career numbers are the result of the fact that he has been blessed with the opportunity to play very long. You can say Willis has been consistent at best. But HOFer I don't think so. But hey MLB just had a player who defines consisentcy go into the HOF. I think for Willis to reach the Hall since his credentials are pretty much just two allstar games is if he reaches 14000 rebounds and 19000 points...but I doubt he will have enough longevity to do that.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

contrary to popular belief, the hall of fame is pretty difficult to get into. kevin willis has no chance. i don't think jackson does either. the modern day nba players elected over the last 5 years are magic, moses, isiah, mcadoo, mchale & bird. pretty good players. mcadoo, a 5 time all-star, league mvp, 3 time scoring champ, had to wait 9 years after he was eligible to get in. james worthy is still waiting to get in. bernard king isn't in. 4 time 30 ppg scorer adrian dantley isn't in. dennis johnson's not in. that's why it baffles me to even discuss guys like willis or jackson. nice players, but completely undeserving.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> contrary to popular belief, the hall of fame is pretty difficult to get into. kevin willis has no chance. i don't think jackson does either. the modern day nba players elected over the last 5 years are magic, moses, isiah, mcadoo, mchale & bird. pretty good players. mcadoo, a 5 time all-star, league mvp, 3 time scoring champ, had to wait 9 years after he was eligible to get in. james worthy is still waiting to get in. bernard king isn't in. 4 time 30 ppg scorer adrian dantley isn't in. dennis johnson's not in. that's why it baffles me to even discuss guys like willis or jackson. nice players, but completely undeserving.


you make a good case


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> contrary to popular belief, the hall of fame is pretty difficult to get into. kevin willis has no chance. i don't think jackson does either. the modern day nba players elected over the last 5 years are magic, moses, isiah, mcadoo, mchale & bird. pretty good players. mcadoo, a 5 time all-star, league mvp, 3 time scoring champ, had to wait 9 years after he was eligible to get in. james worthy is still waiting to get in. bernard king isn't in. 4 time 30 ppg scorer adrian dantley isn't in. dennis johnson's not in. that's why it baffles me to even discuss guys like willis or jackson. nice players, but completely undeserving.


Benard King great call...that guy was amazing...averaged 32.9 ppg one season...came back from injury another and scored 28.4 ppg. One of my most favorite players all time and remember his battle with Isiah in the playoffs. If he didn't suffer those injuries he would have scored at least 25, 000. But the best player not to be in the hall is Nique.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

i believe nique's first year of eligibility is coming up. bernard was a better player, but obviously for not as long. and i'm pretty certain la was happy picking worthy over nique in the '82 draft. doesn't mean worthy was a better player. nique was something though.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

No!

He's never been a top point guard in any of his years in the league, not even close.

He is a mediocre starter who couldn't shoot so he passed alot and played many years, big whoopie doo


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