# Raptors @ Cavaliers, Dec. 4



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>

















*Toronto Raptors* (7-11) @ *Cleveland Cavaliers* (10-6)
December 4th, 2004, 7:30 PM EST
The Score

_*projected*_




































*Milt Palacio, Jalen Rose, Lamond Murray, Chris Bosh, Rafael Araujo*





































*Jeff McInnins, Ira Newble, LeBron James, Drew Gooden, Zydrunas Ilgauskas*</center>


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

No Vince Carter ?


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

Jeff Mcinnis looks totally high in that picture....anyhow....i think we are going to loose this one...with all the comotion that is this Raptors team...but i look for Chris Bosh to carry the the offensive load on this night...with VC out and Alston seeing limited minutes....i think this will be the game where Bosh breaks out of his mini slump that he is having...but still a Raps loss...should be fun to see what Big Z does to us tonight...i cant wait...i have him on my fantasy team...shuold be a good night for him....


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Is just me or look like Jeff McInnins was smoking something before that picture


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> No Vince Carter ?


Vince reportedly has the flu. He is probably not going to play. Who knows, though.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Vince reportedly has the flu. He is probably not going to play. Who knows, though.


Ohh I C


----------



## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

It has been announced by several sources (Fan590, Score) that Araujo will be starting and VC is questionable with the flu or food poisoning.

I think its a good matchup for Araujo on Z. Not too athletic.

For all the conspiracy theorists the vince thing has to raise some eyebrows. The timing could not be more suspicious.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Holy crap McInnis looks wrecked in that picture.

But anyways, no predictions, I'm just going to wait and see how the Raptors will embarrass themselves tonight 

I'm really going to enjoy seeing Araujo get significant minutes.

And that Vince story is bull****. Pure bull****. Something fishy is goin down...


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Holy crap McInnis looks wrecked in that picture.
> 
> But anyways, no predictions, I'm just going to wait and see how the Raptors will embarrass themselves tonight
> ...


its completely believable....think about it....they just left SUNNY florida where it is really really hot and nice weather...to go to Boston where is it 6 degrees...and now they are in Cleveland where it is 8 degrees....VC prollly just caught something in that times...there is no conspiracy here...calm down...


----------



## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>adhir</b>!
> 
> 
> its completely believable....think about it....they just left SUNNY florida where it is really really hot and nice weather...to go to Boston where is it 6 degrees...and now they are in Cleveland where it is 8 degrees....VC prollly just caught something in that times...there is no conspiracy here...calm down...


Old wives tale, temperature does not facilitate illness. A virus does.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>adhir</b>!
> 
> 
> its completely believable....think about it....they just left SUNNY florida where it is really really hot and nice weather...to go to Boston where is it 6 degrees...and now they are in Cleveland where it is 8 degrees....VC prollly just caught something in that times...there is no conspiracy here...calm down...


The story is food poisoning, not a cold or the flu.

Since when can you get food poisoning from a temperature change? :laugh:


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DAllatt</b>!
> 
> 
> Old wives tale, temperature does not facilitate illness. A virus does.


so why is it that September throught November are the months where most people get sick? Change of temperature does facilitate illness...have you ever been in a well air conditioned room and then gone outside to like 30 degree weather..and u get a massive headache...thats the difference of temp....so once again no conspiracy here...u guys are just looking for a reason to hate VC


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> The story is food poisoning, not a cold or the flu.
> ...


see now that is something different...i never read that..i read Flu like symptoms....who knows he prolly ate some bad Chiken McNugets


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Raptors are going to get smacked, especially if Carter doesn't play.
He always performs against Cleveland, and if he is able to play tonight, things won't be any different.
Chris Bosh needs to step up!


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

please avoid that type of comparison. speedy.


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Clevland is playing really well now, it could be an early night if Raps don't show up early and often

Something is simmering below our view on that team....Vince with food poisioning seems like a smoke screen if I have ever seen one


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> It really kind of sucks for Sam Mitchell’s squad down here in the States. But, by the same token, nobody told Toronto to get a basketball team. They already have the Maple Leafs, but I guess that wasn’t good enough for those hosers.


That came from the Optimist at the Cavs website.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> That came from the Optimist at the Cavs website.


Canada bashing is all over these boards. And mods don't do anything about it. People say "Oh its just a joke, jeez lighten up." well so what? I could start crap about the States and say its just a joke and people would still get mad.

This crap is unnecessary and immature.

Why don't mods stop this? Come on...


EDIT: I see that "The Optimist" is off nba.com's Cavaliers site. My mistake. But that is even worse.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Canada bashing is all over these boards. And mods don't do anything about it. People say "Oh its just a joke, jeez lighten up." well so what? I could start crap about the States and say its just a joke and people would still get mad.
> ...


Well actually, the Optimist is just some guy on the Cavaliers official website who posts predictions for the Cavs games and stuff.
Someone on the Cavs board just copied his thoughts about what would happen in the game, and that Anti-Canadian comment was right in the middle of it.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> Well actually, the Optimist is just some guy on the Cavaliers official website who posts predictions for the Cavs games and stuff.
> Someone on the Cavs board just copied his thoughts about what would happen in the game, and that Anti-Canadian comment was right in the middle of it.


Yeah, I went to the Cavs board and saw that. But that is even worse. How could the nba let them post crap like that.


please keep things on-topic. your views on the American people can be explored elsewhere on the site. speedy.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, I went to the Cavs board and saw that. But that is even worse. How could the nba let them post crap like that.


Yeah seriously.
Now I really want Toronto to kick their ***.
That Optimist guy is an idiot, he keeps talking about the exchange rate, as if it's funny.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah seriously.
> ...


Hah, that is funny since their dollar has dropped like a fly over the past year. He shouldn't be talking about exchange rates...


----------



## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

not appropriate. please don't complain about "them" and then do the same things. speedy.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

C'mon guys, this is a game thread. We don't need to pollute this one the way the Orlando one got corroded. If you want talk politics visit the politics board, or Crooked J's Cabin.

Getting things back on topic, how many minutes do you think we'll see Rafer getting tonight?


----------



## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> how many minutes do you think we'll see Rafer getting tonight?


It will either be 20-25 min, the standard '2 unit' amount in Mitchell's system, or None. I would guess that he will play a backup roll.

I'm actually interested to see rafer play more with Mopete, Bonner and Donyell. All these guys play with hart, not to mention good fundamental basketball. The second unit have done a tremendous job so far this year, and will only benefit by adding a scoring threat like Rafer. I think rafer will enjoy playing with guys who play with this kind of passion.


----------



## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

does anyone know who is going to start? 

and what about Moisio is he gonna play tonight?


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> does anyone know who is going to start?
> 
> and what about Moisio is he gonna play tonight?


Palacio, Rose, Bosh, Araujo, and Moiso are starting.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

half way through the 1st and its already getting ugly


----------



## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

horrible starting 5 for the Raps


----------



## raptorsrule15 (Jul 4, 2003)

We're gettin ABSOLUTELY KILLED inside.


----------



## Jordan VS WHO!! (Jun 25, 2004)

yuck 39 pts in 1 Q. 

Here's a snapshot of my feel for the game so far...
Mosio - eww
Hoffa - aaargh
Bosh - zzzZZZ
Murray - brrrr

Can someone else relate?

My roomie had to restrain me from kicking the TV.

Someone plz call the SCORE and tell em to switch this broadcast off.

I cannot stand the commentators.. king james this.. king james that .. wow ! ooooh .. aaah.. .blah blah .. 
How bout tell it like it is.. Raps r suxin it up bigtime.


----------



## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

God save the Bonner ...


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan VS WHO!!</b>!
> yuck 39 pts in 1 Q.
> 
> Here's a snapshot of my feel for the game so far...
> ...



 

What insightful commentary.

Of course they are going to talk about James, who wouldn't?

Well, Hoffa was playing alright, too bad he got into foul trouble. Moiso was smeh, not horrible, you can't expect him to be an offensive threat. I hope both get a few minutes in the 3rd quarter, they need another chance to prove themselves or put the final nail in their coffins (for Moiso, anyways).

It sucks that Woods got hurt, the good news is his finger isn't broken, but we could use his hustle and rebounding out there.

Bosh is still taking too many jumpers. God, playing with Rose and Carter so much must have really screwed him up.

And Rafer is the man, coming out hard tonight getting Big Z in foul trouble and making him take a tech. Good signs.

And Bonner is unconscious shooting the ball, man. He can be moving but when he goes up for the shot he always goes straight up, its awesome to watch. Awesome energy on the o-boards too.

WTF is wrong with Marshall, I think he should abandon the 3 ball for a little while, he is hurting us when he takes those shots.


----------



## laydee-bawla22 (Jul 15, 2003)

100% from the FT line and only two 3-balls attempted...Sam probably said he'd beat them if they attempted a 3 after last game.
But the 27% FG shooting is pretty pathetic....I'm not watching the game but looking at the boxscore it looks like FTs are the only thing keeping the raps in this game and once again they are being totally dominated in the post.


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

oh my god.....2 straight dunks for James....i was gonna post that we are playing good now.....but lets seee what happens now....


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Raptors won a 3rd quarter!!!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

How was that not a foul? MoPete got fouled!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Damn you McInnis! Thank you Murray!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Why do we ALWAYS self-destruct?!?!?! AGH!!!!


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Why do we ALWAYS self-destruct?!?!?! AGH!!!!


tired didn't have enough enegry to finish the comeback but the raptors as a team get mad respect from me for not rolling over with the odds they were faaced with tonight


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

So <i>that's</i> the stat-padding Rafer was talking about...


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> So <i>that's</i> the stat-padding Rafer was talking about...


Elaborate please...

I give the Raptors lots of respect for fighting back. The Raptors aren't much better or worse when he plays or doesn't play, him not playing certainly didn't lose us the game.

We just self destucted real late in the 4th. Ach, this hurts more than if we would have gotten blown out. Stupid turnover after stupid turnover after stupid turnover. Rafer had a good game but he had some really bad TOs down the stretch.

And check out the thread on this game on the main NBA board. The Raptors and Raptor fans get no respect, it is disgusting.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Elaborate please...


Jalen Rose got two easy lay-ups after the huge 4 TO's in 5 plays debacle.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> Is just me or look like Jeff McInnins was smoking something before that picture


he looks like he's straight off from flatbush ave lol


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> And check out the thread on this game on the main NBA board. The Raptors and Raptor fans get no respect, it is disgusting.


For real... it just gets to a point where it's like... "OKAY! WE GET IT! You hate the Raptors, for seemingly no apparent reason! You hate the city of Toronto, even though you've probably never been there! And you hate Canada, even though your country is full of ignorant ****kickers like yourself!"


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Jalen Rose got two easy lay-ups after the huge 4 TO's in 5 plays debacle.


Yeah, I can see what you're sayin...

I also found how long Rose sat on the bench tonight pretty interesting. I'm starting to see through Rose's "leadership" facade...


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> For real... it just gets to a point where it's like... "OKAY! WE GET IT! You hate the Raptors, for seemingly no apparent reason! You hate the city of Toronto, even though you've probably never been there! And you hate Canada, even though your country is full of ignorant ****kickers like yourself!"


Exactly. I wish I could meet them face to face and have them talk like that. 

please do not make comments like this in the future. speedy.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Seriously... the funny thing is, I went down to LA this summer. And after about 5 minutes of comparing Toronto to LA with my cousin and some of his friends, they were all like "Damn I wanna go to Canada! You guys have free health care AND bus transfers?"

please don't make offensive generalizations. speedy.


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

have you guys ever seen talking to americans with the guy from this hour has 22 minutes....that is some funny ish.....i love it...making americans looks soo stupid....


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I thought this was a game thread?


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> I thought this was a game thread?


it strayed a little...i mean do we really wanna talk about the raptors??? but i was very happy with the effort they put in late in the game..but once again we lost...but Rafer came out very nicely..and led the team very well....good hitng he isnt quitting he is an amazing player...


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

No one is stopping anyone from talking about the Raps. Its not our fault no one is around 

I already gave my 2 cents on the first half.

Theres not much to say about the game, we choked (this is a recording). Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers.

I did like the heart we showed clawing back after the brutal first quarter though.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I really didn't want to lose this game. We are starting to spin out of control right now. Our road record is abysmal. I wonder if we can stay around .400 and get out of this road swing, but it seems doubtful now. You really never know what to expect out of this team, except to expect something different every night.

Tonight we went with an ill-conceived lineup comprised of three of our bigs. Moiso and Araujo were both given an opportunity to show what they could do, and neither showed much of anything. Moiso allowed about four uncontested Gooden dunks, got stripped, picked-up a quick foul, and missed a shot. Araujo missed all three of his forced shots and picked-up two quick fouls. They combined for two defensive rebonds and were pulled, never to be heard from again.

Bosh had the task of guarding James and playing the swing. LeBron hit all of his shots and Bosh hit only one of his in the first quarter. Bosh took mostly jumpers early in the game, which is not unexpected for the position he was playing but wasn't necessairily nice. Afterwards he looked sharper playing the 4, getting some rebounds and blocks. But he never settled-down and continued his streak of high-turnover games. He really seems to be trying to do too much.

Palacio played pretty well in his starting debut for the season. He is very consistent this year. He would've played more minutes but Rafer was getting after it, passing well and causing problems for Cleveland. As is ususal these days, he had a poor shooting night and had almost as many turnovers as assists. 9-9 from the line, though. If only his shot was falling, this would've been a great night for him. Instead it's more of the same, with improved effort and worsened ball control.

Bonner is a stud, Marshall is having a tough year, Cleveland's frontcourt is highly underrated and Loren Woods could be out for a while.

Losing sucks, but don't let it get you down. There is a lot of season left and a lot of changes on the way.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

This turned out to be a great game for the Raptors and for our management team.

Vince was out with Lebron-itis, oops I mean food poisoning.

Sam said after the game that his strategy with his starting lineup was to go big and attack the offensive glass to stop Clevelands fast break. Unfortunately that didn't work out at all and his decision to go zone with Moiso Araujo and Bosh was a poor strategic move for a unit that has never played together and does not have the bball IQ needed to play effective zone D.

Moiso and Hoffa need to be assigned a man and not have to deal with constant cutters and switches that playing zone demands. Players have to be smart and have experience to play zone D.

Cleveland is a very fast and physically strong team. Lebron must be one of the fastest players in the league over a 40 yard dash.

Cavs were on fire early hitting 78% of shots in the first quarter and scoring 39 points. That last 3 really hurt and the refs never call that travelling when the guy takes a hop and then shoots.

Rafer came in and played amazing. He forgot about the 3 ball and attacked all night. Created for others as well. Raps go 22/22 from the FT line in the first half. Got big Z and McInnis in foul trouble which aided our comeback.

Raps kept getting the lead down to 5 only to see it quickly spike back to 11 due to turnovers or bad shooting. Many, many chances to win this game.

MoP was invisible again going 0/6. He just never steps up when VC is out.

Probably the last we will see from Moiso this year. He just didn't bring it tonight. Horrible effort as he watched Gooden beat him up the floor for a slam with both players starting from the same spot and Gooden taking a wider path and dribbling the ball. That was purely effort unless Moiso is really just a slow runner. Sam only commented about the lack of rebounding but the Cavs probably only missed 2 shots in the first 8 minutes. 

Bosh doesn't run back very well either after turnovers or missed shots. Maybe it was just the speed of the Cavs and our road-weary Raps this night. But on one play the Raps scored a bucket and started jogging back while the Cavs inbound the ball (not quickly either) and make a second pass upcourt for a layup that beats EVERY raptor player on the floor.

Overall I was quite pleased with the fight and aggressiveness the Raps had tonight.

Our turnovers led directly to layups and dunks for the Cavs (20 points off TO's) and that was the difference in the game ultimately. That and poor shooting by the Raps (37%)


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Too bad Vince didnt play, he has always done a good job of handling Bron


----------

