# It Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen...



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

*rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen...*

...(before the injuries, of course), then what does Andre Iguodala make Kyle Korver look like? Barry Sanders?

Jackson tested out as stronger, quicker and a better leaper than did Iggy. So someone please fill me in: why does Jackson have a set ceiling on his potential, while Iggy doesn't?

arenas, grinch, etc. -- feel free to expound on this topic. I won't hold my breath.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen...*



> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> ...(before the injuries, of course), then what does Andre Iguodala make Kyle Korver look like? Barry Sanders?
> 
> Jackson tested out as stronger, quicker and a better leaper than did Iggy. So someone please fill me in: why does Jackson have a set ceiling on his potential, while Iggy doesn't?
> ...


I haven't really watched enough of Jackson to be sure of this, but the reasons I could think of which would lead Iggy to a better pro career would be better defensive ability (regardless of lateral quickness), better rebounding and passing ability, and an above the rim game that Jackson clearly has the ability to have. Iguodala finishes with more authority - like Wade, this may end up leading to great success in the league.

But I like Jackson a lot, and I wouldn't mind picking him. I just hope if that's our goal, we trade down and don't pick him before we have to.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen...*



> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> ...(before the injuries, of course), then what does Andre Iguodala make Kyle Korver look like? Barry Sanders?
> 
> Jackson tested out as stronger, quicker and a better leaper than did Iggy. So someone please fill me in: why does Jackson have a set ceiling on his potential, while Iggy doesn't?
> ...


This is really rude. Vega, I expected more out of you. I guess we can book Jacksons spot in the hall of fame, with every other white 4 year college player. Jeez, were you a Danny Ferry fan?

Yeah, those combine workouts matter. I guess I care more about what happened in the games. When Iggys team was lighting Jackson up. Or is Retro going to have to refresh your memory again how Jackson scored all his points, AFTER Iggy left for garbage time. Real Winner!


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen.*



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> This is really rude. Vega, I expected more out of you. I guess we can book Jacksons spot in the hall of fame, with every other white 4 year college player. Jeez, were you a Danny Ferry fan?
> ...


This is hilarious.

Do I even need to comment?

Are you busom buddies with these guys or their agents?

I'll let this thread do the talking...

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94732

Refer here, and look for Retro Dreams post, it's rather "enlightening".


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen...*



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> This is really rude.


What if I were to say that what you said before was very rude to Luke Jackson? What if I were to say that what you said before was very rude to me and my rather strong opinion which I've held for over two years now? Step out of your shoes and take a look around.



> Vega, I expected more out of you.


Well, I'm not the scout here. I'm also not the one who took the initial low blow/leg-chopping of one's opinion.



> I guess we can book Jacksons spot in the hall of fame, with every other white 4 year college player. Jeez, were you a Danny Ferry fan?


No, I'm not a Danny Ferry fan. I'm merely calling 'em as I see 'em. Nothing more, nothing less. You criticized my opinion quite severely a few weeks ago, so now I'm merely coming back to reinforce my point and see if you still believe in mocking mine. Why you are having trouble recognizing this is beyond me.



> Yeah, those combine workouts matter.


Yes, they certainly do.



> I guess I care more about what happened in the games.


I do too. Jackson went to the Elite Eight when he was a sophomore. Iggy flamed out in the first round with far superior talent on his team when he was a sophomore. I like what happened in this game: after being down 18 in the second half, Jackson scored 31 of his team's final 33 points (including 29 straight) and singlehandedly beat Colorado (w/ two NBA talents on the roster in Harrison and Morandais). That should tell you something about A.) Jackson and B.) the team he played on.



> When Iggys team was lighting Jackson up.


...or when Jackson was dropping 40 on Iggy and making him look like an abused shoolboy -- on multiple occasions?

I see my initial question was not answered.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

VV , I'm with u on the Luke Jackson bandwagon bigtime , but no need to open this again.

We can leave it as is , not everybody can be on the same bandwagon , unless there is a Lebron in the draft.

And for the topic - I think Luke is a winner and has got what it takes to be a good pro...


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> but no need to open this again.


Why not? rlucas mocked my opinion, one which he knew I valued quite strongly and vocally, yet when it comes back around I'm being "rude"? Come on. This is crap.

And yes, I still think rlucas is one hell of a guy with primo info, and no, I haven't lost one ounce of respect for him. I simply want my question answered.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

"Hell bent for Luke Jackson."


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

My question is, why are you calling out people on a guy who hasn't done anything in a NBA game yet?

His test scores are nice, but there's plenty of guys that have put up nice scores that even went undrafted.

Let's see Luke do in the NBA what he did @ Oregon, then you can come back here a and howl all day long....


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> My question is, why are you calling out people on a guy who hasn't done anything in a NBA game yet?
> 
> His test scores are nice, but there's plenty of guys that have put up nice scores that even went undrafted.
> ...


This is irrelevant to the question I am asking. Nice tapdance, though.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

The best part about draft conjecture is that soon enough we will get to see how well Jackson adapts to the NBA game, and questions about his defense will be finally answered.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

> Jackson tested out as stronger, quicker and a better leaper than did Iggy. So someone please fill me in: why does Jackson have a set ceiling on his potential, while Iggy doesn't?


It matters somewhat but not totally. Jackson could very well be a workout warrior. You read about it all the time in the NFL. Some little known draft prospect (or even a good one) comes out with a blazing times in the 40 and 3 cone drill and bench press. Teams get excited and draft that prospect high. Then he goes to the NFL and he's a bust. 

Jerry Rice is considered by many to be the greatest football player... ever. Yet, the best 40 time he ran was about a 4.6. There are many WRs in the NFL who can run much, much faster and yet are marginal players at best. 

That Jackson can jump a few inches higher or do some drill a little better says very little in my opinion. Iguodala is clearly the better athlete and defender.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen...*



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> This is really rude. Vega, I expected more out of you. I guess we can book Jacksons spot in the hall of fame, with every other white 4 year college player. Jeez, were you a Danny Ferry fan?
> ...


...this being said (and also not addressing anything in my initial post), what does Andre Iguodala's quickness make Kyle Korver look like? I mentioned Barry Sanders, but you might have someone else in mind. I don't know.

Also, why does Iggy have a high ceiling, while Luke Jackson doesn't?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

If guys like Hinrich and Jackson are so good as you say they are, why do they need you to lay out arguments to support their games?

You're dropping names, Morandais, what buzz has he created?

Jackson should have played better than him...

This is just more virtual BJ's from you to these guys, and now there's some proof to what you've been saying and you want to howl like you've accomplished something.

Next.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Jeez, did I start a thread saying, VEGA you flaiming idiot for liking Jackson? No. I dont call people out like you did rude

Exactly what question havent I answered? 

Jackson wasnt dropping 40 on iggy, how many times do we have to go over it? its called padding stats. iggy was long gone when Jackson was scoring those points. I believe it was Retro who put you in your place

Troy Bell, ring a bell. Guess those workout stats mattered for him?

Vega, didnt yourself say you would take Iggy over Jackson? So arent you just as dumb as I am?

If I offended you in the least bit Vega, I apologized, but never once did I call you out on it. I didnt mock you in the least bit. I stated facts. 

Hmmm, Luke Ridnour and Fred Jones were the stars of those Oregon teams, not Jackson. And dont even say he was. And Ridnour and Jones havent done much in the NBA. And their teams DID better then Jacksons teams.

In fact, Jacksons teams was a HUGE disappointment. Can we draw too much of a conclusion from it? No. But is Jackson somewhat held reliable? Yes, as the leader of the team he is. But YOUR guys cant do no wrong. They dont get held accountable. 

Oh, and you want some primo info? Jackson was rather quietly outplayed recently in a workout by a HSer. I am not going to say any more then that. 

So I guess we should just say Jackson has Dominique Wilkens athletic ability and Larry Birds touch? hall of fame here we come. Then why isnt Jackson going in the top 5? Is everyone wrong about him? Most mocks have him 15 or later, STILL. Why? is everyone wrong but you? What is it that you see that no one else does, is a more profound question?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rwj333</b>!
> 
> 
> It matters somewhat but not totally. Jackson could very well be a workout warrior. You read about it all the time in the NFL. Some little known draft prospect (or even a good one) comes out with a blazing times in the 40 and 3 cone drill and bench press. Teams get excited and draft that prospect high. Then he goes to the NFL and he's a bust.


Sure. I see your point. I've considered it. But Luke Jackson is not a "little known draft prospect". People (largely) know the goods on him. He's been performing at a high level on a big stage for a while now. Coming into this month, the only questions on him were his athleticism and defense. Now that one of those questions has been solidly answered, why can't some people begin to recognize that he might in fact not be such a bad NBA prospect? 



> Jerry Rice is considered by many to be the greatest football player... ever. Yet, the best 40 time he ran was about a 4.6. There are many WRs in the NFL who can run much, much faster and yet are marginal players at best.


True. But 90% of elite WR's have 40 times that would best be described as very, very fast. Alas, this is not my point. *My contention is not how Jackson will do in the League vis a vis his athleticism.* My contention is that Luke Jackson's quickness will NOT "make Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen without the injuries".


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Sure. I see your point. I've considered it. But Luke Jackson is not a "little known draft prospect". People (largely) know the goods on him. He's been performing at a high level on a big stage for a while now. Coming into this month, the only questions on him were his athleticism and defense. Now that one of those questions has been solidly answered, why can't some people begin to recognize that he might in fact not be such a bad NBA prospect?
> ...


Troy Bell was a well known prospect too. And he tested well. Alot of guys have. And then they get to the NBA, and get lit up. Who has Jackson stopped?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Big stage, like the NIT semifinals when Michigan dusted him? Maybe thats why NBA types dont mention him in the top 5. You usually have to outplay guys who would have a hard time making it in the Chinese league to be a legit prospect. And usually your team has to outperform. 

Look at Dwayne Wade. He had less to work with then Jackson and got to the NCAAs semifinals. jackson couldnt get it into the tournament, when they favorites too, in a down year in the PAC-10


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> If guys like Hinrich and Jackson are so good as you say they are, why do they need you to lay out arguments to support their games?


Why do others feel the need to lay out arguments criticizing their games? Why do others feel the need to lay out false arguments criticizing their games?

Also, why do you feel the need to advertise Dorrell Wright each and every time you post?



> You're dropping names, Morandais, what buzz has he created?


About the same amount of buzz that Marquis Daniels created around this time last year. NO, I'm not saying he'll be like Daniels, or that he'll even be on a team next year. I simply mentioned that he has a chance to make an NBA squad.



> Jackson should have played better than him...


My reference of Colorado in the above post served not only to illustrate Jackson's talent, but also the lack of talent he had on his team. This was in response to the flawed team success argument rlucas threw out as he attempted to dodge my initial questions.



> This is just more virtual BJ's from you to these guys,


Remind me again who has the fan club signature at the bottom of their posts.



> and now there's some proof to what you've been saying


In light of my opinons regarding this topic being mocked a few weeks ago, I believe this might be a rather important piece of information.



> and you want to howl like you've accomplished something.


Nope. I'm expressing an opinion. Which is what boards like this are for.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Why do others feel the need to lay out arguments criticizing their games? Why do others feel the need to lay out false arguments criticizing their games?
> ...


I don't see what the big deal a fan club is, I'm not all over the boards convincing everyone that Dorell is god...

In fact, I probably post more about Livingston than anyone else in the draft.

So you can put that remark in the trash with the rest of them.

I'm just amazed the guy hasn't done 1 thing in a game yet and you're already calling people out.

Where are all the other millions of Luke fans to call us out?

I'm done on this...

We all know the truth about Luke....

We can agree to disagree, and I'll leave it at that.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Why do others feel the need to lay out arguments criticizing their games? Why do others feel the need to lay out false arguments criticizing their games?
> ...


last line

Expressing an opinion. But when others do it, You call them out on posts? And you dont think that is rude? Vega, I know your a far classier guy then that

You want an answer to the question, for the 1986th time, and YES I AM COUNTING, who has Jackson stopped? I mean, I saw him play and I saw him not able to stay in front of ANYONE. Thats my opinion, one shared by alot of people. Maybe I am right, Maybe I am wrong. But I am fairly certain, that a guy with his type of shot would be a lock for the top 5 if anyone thought he could actually defend, or had the work ethic to defend.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't see what the big deal a fan club is, I'm not all over the boards convincing everyone that Dorell is god...
> ...


haha, Vega is the first guy to declare victory before the guy has even played in a game. My hats off to you, my white flag is raised  

Lets see how he defends when Kobe Bryant, or Rip Hamilton, or heck Jamal Crawford comes to town. My guess is not well. Its my guess. Feel free to mock and bait me now


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> You want an answer to the question, for the 1986th time, and YES I AM COUNTING, who has Jackson stopped? I mean, I saw him play and I saw him not able to stay in front of ANYONE. Thats my opinion, one shared by alot of people. Maybe I am right, Maybe I am wrong. But I am fairly certain, that a guy with his type of shot would be a lock for the top 5 if anyone thought he could actually defend, or had the work ethic to defend.


In all the workouts, interviews, when has 1 good comment been made about his defense?

Find that and then come back VV.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

By the way, I WAS SO RUDE on that other thread! Now I can see why VV wants to call me out


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> By the way, I WAS SO RUDE on that other thread! Now I can see why VV wants to call me out


Silence...

The agony of defeat.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Jeez, did I start a thread saying, VEGA you flaiming idiot for liking Jackson? No.


Nope, but you did essentially mock my opinion on the guy a few weeks ago, comparing him to Kyle Korver. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not mad or upset or anything. I merely want an explanation. Like I said before, I still have 100% respect for you and what you say. I'm just a little confused why you can say one thing so readily one day, but then turn around and act like it didn't happen the next.



> I dont call people out like you did rude


You called me out the other week, saying I never criticized Hinrich. You called into question my integrity and my accountability in a public forum, in front of everyone. I (along with others) proved my case, and I got an apology from you, which I accepted. I might be wrong, but I classify that incident as "calling me out". arenas809 and grinch simply shrugged their shoulders and never apologized, which is one thing I'll always remember about their posting habits.



> Exactly what question havent I answered?


Ummmm, the two I asked in my initial post.

1. If Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen before his injuries, what does Andre Iguodala make Kyle Korver look like?

2. Why does Luke Jackson have a ceiling set on his potential, while Andre Iguodala doesn't? 



> Jackson wasnt dropping 40 on iggy, how many times do we have to go over it? its called padding stats.


Jackson scored 15 points in the first half with Iggy draped all over him, and then 27 in the second half. Iggy simply couldn't guard him. He fouled out in 22 minutes. Also, the game was hardly a blowout or "long gone when Jackson was scoring those points". Shakur played 39 minutes, Stoudamire 38 minutes, Adams 33 minutes, Rodgers 32 minutes (because Iggy fouled out), Frye 30 minutes. Those are *not* the minutes accompanying a blowout.

*"The Ducks, who trailed 54-38 at the half, pulled to 83-76 with 7:02 left on Jackson's layup."*

http://www.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=33011
http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/02/20/c1.sp.uomen.0220.html



> iggy was long gone when Jackson was scoring those points. I believe it was Retro who put you in your place


That's because Iggy fouled out trying to guard Jackson.



> Troy Bell, ring a bell. Guess those workout stats mattered for him?


Now you're doing the same tapdance as arenas809.



> Vega, didnt yourself say you would take Iggy over Jackson? So arent you just as dumb as I am?


Yes. But I never said you were dumb, and I never said Jackson's agility made Korver look like a young Scottie Pippen. One can hold mulitple opinions from different angles on the same subject, you know.



> If I offended you in the least bit Vega, I apologized, but never once did I call you out on it. I didnt mock you in the least bit. I stated facts.


...facts like I never, ever criticized Hinrich? Yeah. _Those_ facts. 



> Hmmm, Luke Ridnour and Fred Jones were the stars of those Oregon teams, not Jackson. And dont even say he was.


Ridnour and Jackson were the stars. The Luke & Luke Show. Jones was a complementary player -- always has been, always will be. A damn good complementary player, but a complementary player nonetheless. The two Lukes were the creators, the leaders, the motivators. Ask any Oregon fan.



> And Ridnour and Jones havent done much in the NBA. And their teams DID better then Jacksons teams.


Straw man. A bad one at that.



> In fact, Jacksons teams was a HUGE disappointment.


Not really. The Ducks weren't supposed to be a great team, and they weren't. Outside of Jackson, they simply didn't have the talent. As for Iguodala's team which got knocked off in the first round this year and haven't played to seed in a few years -- _they_ were a HUGE disappointment. Almost as much as, say, Missouri was. And that's some pretty disappointing company.



> Can we draw too much of a conclusion from it? No. But is Jackson somewhat held reliable? Yes, as the leader of the team he is. But YOUR guys cant do no wrong. They dont get held accountable.


I never said he could do no wrong. Nice assumption though. Anyways, I can always find solace in the fact that Marvin Williams' Bremerton team was thoroughly mediocre in a less than stellar Washington state league, and the year after Chris Bosh couldn't get his team to the Big Dance, the SAME team minus Bosh made it to the championship game. Do I draw much of a conclusion from it? No. I'm just trying to show you how much the team success formula for determining a player's worth is flawed. 



> Oh, and you want some primo info? Jackson was rather quietly outplayed recently in a workout by a HSer. I am not going to say any more then that.


Oooooh. I'm sure Jackson doesn't mind going from a late 1st- early-2nd round guy a few months ago to lock for the lottery right now. 



> So I guess we should just say Jackson has Dominique Wilkens athletic ability and Larry Birds touch? hall of fame here we come.


Why is it when you don't agree with something, you always use hyperbole?



> Then why isnt Jackson going in the top 5? Is everyone wrong about him?


Maybe. A lot of "experts" this year were.



> Most mocks have him 15 or later, STILL. Why?


Because a lot of mock drafts are made by high schoolers.



> is everyone wrong but you? What is it that you see that no one else does, is a more profound question?


Like I said, I simply call 'em like I see 'em. And quit with the hyperbole. It's getting old.


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## Thorgal (Feb 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> > Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> ...


You left this unanswered, *rlucas4257* and IMO it's the reason why V V started new thread here.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

Why cany anyone just admit they overexaggerated a lil while trying to prove a point and that the guy is more athletic than he was previously given credit for .

Geez Ill be glad when the draft is over :sigh:


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Big stage, like the NIT semifinals when Michigan dusted him? Maybe thats why NBA types dont mention him in the top 5. You usually have to outplay guys who would have a hard time making it in the Chinese league to be a legit prospect. And usually your team has to outperform.


Would Andre Iguodala have a hard time making it in the Chinese league? 



> Look at Dwayne Wade. He had less to work with then Jackson and got to the NCAAs semifinals.


He had a certain point guard by the name of Travis Diener, who most think is pretty damn good. Also, when Marquette did make it to the semis, they were promptly beaten by the largest margin in Final Four history.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> He had a certain point guard by the name of Travis Diener, who most think is pretty damn good. Also, when Marquette did make it to the semis, they were promptly beaten by the largest margin in Final Four history.


lolololol

I'm rollin...

Mr. HKF called it...

He told me on AIM the next player you'd start pimping would be Travis Diener or Paul Davis.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Hilarious.

rlucas and arenas are now attempting to shift the original context of quickness/agility to "who has Jackson stopped?".

rlucas, this is what you said a few weeks ago:

*"This guys lateral quickness makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen, before the injury."*

All I'm doing is seeing if you think Iggy will make Kyle Korver look like Barry Sanders, or perhaps Superman. This question (along with the one regarding the two players' ceilings) is *STILL* unanswered.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Hilarious.
> 
> rlucas and arenas are now attempting to shift the original context of quickness/agility to "who has Jackson stopped?".
> ...


lateral quickness is defined by who can you stay in front of? Ill answer your question with a question, who has Jackson stayed in front of?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> lolololol
> ...


*PLEASE.*

Look up previous posts here and on other boards. I think Diener is terribly overrated. Always have. He's still more than a decent PG (thus the reference in my above post), but he's terribly overrated and won't have much of a pro career, if any. He's not too quick, is horribly weak, isn't a true PG, has a scraggly pube-goatee which looks awful, and is a very streaky (and inefficient) shooter. I've never liked him. His brother at DePaul is better.

I've dissed Paul Davis left and right -- *AND HONG KONG FOOEY KNOWS IT.* Hell, *I remember HKF defending Paul Davis in a thread about future pro prospects while I was saying Davis was a stiff and overrated.*

arenas, why do you

A.) make stuff up, and
B.) spread false information?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> lateral quickness is defined by who can you stay in front of?


I think lateral quickness has just as much (or more) to do with a calculated agility drill than it does with staying in front of someone, which has *a lot* to do with defensive technique.



> Ill answer your question with a question, who has Jackson stayed in front of?


Quit dodging the question. Also, feel free to address the other one I asked in the initial post.

I won't hold my breath.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> *PLEASE.*
> ...


I don't do A or B...

Why are you calling people out about a player that hasn't stepped in a NBA arena yet?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't do A or B...


You just did, genius.



> Why are you calling people out about a player that hasn't stepped in a NBA arena yet?


Because said player stepping in an NBA arena has nothing to do with the questions I asked.

Why is this so hard for you to see?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> I think lateral quickness has just as much (or more) to do with a calculated agility drill than it does with staying in front of someone, which has *a lot* to do with defensive technique.
> ...


Your frankly being rude VV. I answered your question. This guy cant stay in front of anyone. Either he has the agility the test says he does OR he is a terrible defender. I have clearly answered your question several times. 

If I listened to you all the time VV, then I would think Larry Bird is wrong, The NBA doesnt need white superstars. It already has plenty of them  Call it hyperbole or what not. But your rhetoric deserves it


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Because said player stepping in an NBA arena has nothing to do with the questions I asked.
> 
> Why is this so hard for you to see?


Honestly VV,

Other than you, who cares?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> You just did, genius.
> ...


VV I dont know who peed in your cheerios. But listen to yourself, your being rude about something that hasnt been proven at all. I will be the first one to admit I am wrong about something, when its proven, as I have apologized to you. But you cant go around claiming victory before the guy even plays in the NBA? Huh genius?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

While we are at it, I want to bring something up. If measurements mean something, then isnt Nick Collison a slow, fat weak ****? 

I think it was you VV, and maybe it wasnt, but i think it was, who said that that his 18% body fat doesnt say he is obese at all and that the measurements were dumb. If this was you who said it, which one is it? Do the measurement matter or not? Or do they only matter when they prove your point?

Again, i have a question not answered, who has Jackson stopped?


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Here you go, arenas. Try to be a little less ignorant next time:

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=961571#post961571


----------



## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

Actually rlucas, you answered your own question. Vega's questions were:

1) If Luke Jackson makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen before the injuries, what does he make Iggy look like (who Jackson tested out as a better athlete than)?

and

2) Why does Luke Jackson have a limit set on his potential and Iggy doesn't, when Jackson is the better athlete?

not

Can Luke Jackson stay in front of anyone?

Just playing devil's advocate :devil:

Oh and 18% bodyfat isn't obese either, just FYI.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> 
> 
> Just playing devil's advocate :devil:


Not devil's advocate.....rather like honest inquirer.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Your frankly being rude VV. I answered your question. This guy cant stay in front of anyone. Either he has the agility the test says he does OR he is a terrible defender. I have clearly answered your question several times.


No you haven't. You're confusing "lateral quickness" with "defense". The two are related but obviously not mutually inclusive. Why can't you make or admit this separation? That said...

WHO DOES IGGY MAKE KYLE KORVER LOOK LIKE?

If I'm being rude, then we all live in a fantasy land filled with red balloons and daisies.

I'm simply asking a couple questions. Neither of which you have answered yet.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> Actually rlucas, you answered your own question. Vega's questions were:
> 
> 1) If Luke Jackson makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen before the injuries, what does he make Iggy look like (who Jackson tested out as a better athlete than)?
> ...


deranged. I base someones lateral quickness on their ability to stay in front of someone. Since Jackson is rumored to be a hard working, fundamental (ie white) kid I assumed he had no lateral quickness because I have seen enough guys take him to the rack without any problem at all. And guys not going to be in the NBA on top of that. That is how I judged lateral quickness. Now he tested pretty well, though you can hardly put him in the freak category, and the question needs to be asked, if he is so good athletically, why was he so poor defensively? Maybe Mr Fundamental 4 year college star just doesnt play D. And is that what we want here? isnt it a contradiction to love Kirk, Mr Effort, vs a kid who might not give it on that side of the floor. Thats a legit question. Either way, he wont be able to guard people at this level, if he had an impossible time guarding people on the lower level


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> No you haven't. You're confusing "lateral quickness" with "defense". The two are related but obviously not mutually inclusive. Why can't you make or admit this separation? That said...
> ...


So he has lateral quickness, but cant play D? Hmmmmmmmm


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> VV I dont know who peed in your cheerios.


When somebody makes edited for masking up about me and spreads degrading material like arenas has done in this thread, it kind of riles me up. I don't know about you, but I don't like having untrue stuff said about me in public. Or in private.



> But listen to yourself, your being rude about something that hasnt been proven at all.


So lateral quickness tests in front of hundreds of scouts, coaches and GMs with millions of dollars at stake mean nothing to you?



> I will be the first one to admit I am wrong about something, when its proven, as I have apologized to you. But you cant go around claiming victory before the guy even plays in the NBA? Huh genius?


I give up. Seriously, if you guys can't ascertain the fact that agility tests (aka, "lateral quickness", as described by you a few weeks ago) in regards to my questions and as a sole entity has NOTHING to do with future NBA play, then I don't know what else I can type.

Unbelievable.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Id start a poll asking who is more athletic, iggy or jackson on all 3 major boards but my guess says that VV would just say that it isnt statistically valid and frankly on Friday night, there are no smart posters and that everyone is dumb and..........


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> No you haven't. You're confusing "lateral quickness" with "defense". The two are related but obviously not mutually inclusive. Why can't you make or admit this separation? That said...
> 
> WHO DOES IGGY MAKE KYLE KORVER LOOK LIKE?
> ...


You ARE being rude. Are these legit questions? Sure they are. Should they be addressed? Of course.

But the way you're going about it is  :no:

Just be cool to each other. This isn't being cool, regardless of whether you are right or wrong on the facts.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Here I come to jump in (to) the fray (in my best Mighty Mouse voice). 

Both sides make good points. Two things.

1. The point about Diener, was a joke, considering that I pump Paul Davis up way more than VV does. He knows that. He could even bump it on this thread if he wanted to.

2. Luke Jackson has impressed me with those numbers, however, I never said he wasnt athletic at all either. I also said that , while taking into account his scoring numbers is great, the team severely underachieved in a down Pac-10. I felt that, that should be held against him, if Arizona's foibles are held against Iggy.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Oregon was a much better team when Jackson was not the star. When he was playing the complimentary role for Oregon behind Rid and Freddie they went to the Elite Eight, in 2003, he got locked up by Majerus, Richard Chaney and the Utes and then last year in the NIT semis, his team got served by by Michigan Wolverines and everyone knows that I don't like Bernard Robinson Jr. 

When it comes to Jackson I think he will fill a need, however, this is where that Atlanta deal makes sense to me, trading for the No.6 and Diaw. With Diaw you have him to defend the tougher offensive player and Jackson to score. I am not sold on his D, because let's face it, Oregon never played D in their lives, although Freddie Jones is pretty good. 

After his workouts I have been impressed and in all of my mocks I have moved him, however, I still need to know can he play SG effectively. At 6'7, I don't know if he can adequately defend bigger SF's. 

My :twocents:


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So he has lateral quickness, but cant play D? Hmmmmmmmm


Yes. It's not an entirely uncommon phenomenon. See: Jay Williams.

That said, how do you reconcile Iggy and Jackson's agility scores?


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

Oh I'm not arguing he's a below average defensive player. He is actually relatively quick laterally which indicates that he is probably lazy defensively or Ernie Kent doesn't know how to coach D. I don't think Vega ever said he loved Jackson, nor did he compare him to Kirk. Also, just because Vega likes Kirk (the tough-nosed defensive player) doesn't mean he can't like Jackson as well.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> When somebody makes s**t up about me and spreads degrading material like arenas has done in this thread, it kind of riles me up. I don't know about you, but I don't like having untrue stuff said about me in public. Or in private.
> ...


read the ****ing posts VV rather then crying every 2 seconds. I said he tested well, I agreed. BUT that brings up a question, if he tested so well, WHY CANT HE STAY IN FRONT OF ANYONE? You sit here insulting eveyone with this line, "im just asking questions, why havent my questions being answered" when they have been 10x over. Show a little respect, as I have done to you and read the ****ing posts


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't do A or B...
> ...


Similarly, all this gossipy Someone-said-this-in-PM-or-on-another-board stuff is just downright unbecoming and soap opera like.

It's lame and you're a smarter guy than to operate this way. 

Again-  :no:


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> You ARE being rude.


Should I make edit for masking up about people then? Should I accuse them of things they didn't do?




> Just be cool to each other. This isn't being cool, regardless of whether you are right or wrong on the facts.


At least it's stimulating discussion.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Should I make **** up about people then? Should I accuse them of things they didn't do?
> ...


No VV, this isnt stimulating discussion. your title is a bait, you dont read the posts, and your just stating the same fact over and over without answering any of the counters. A discussion requires listening and countering. This is you lecturing on something that hasnt been proven at the next level, yet you look at as fact


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> read the ****ing posts VV rather then crying every 2 seconds. I said he tested well, I agreed. BUT that brings up a question, if he tested so well, WHY CANT HE STAY IN FRONT OF ANYONE? You sit here insulting eveyone with this line, "im just asking questions, why havent my questions being answered" when they have been 10x over. Show a little respect, as I have done to you and read the ****ing posts


That's not really a good argument, using his defensive ability to rate his athleticism. As we all know Eddy Curry is a great athlete and he's a marginal defender at best. Same with JC and there are plenty of other examples. Just because Jackson is a four year white college guy doesn't mean he busts his balls on defense. I haven't seen him play all that much but either he's a) just lazy on D or b) Ernie Kent can't coach D


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Yawn.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Oregon was a much better team when Jackson was not the star.


Well, of course Oregon was better when they had Ridnour and Jones on the roster. Which team wouldn't? When Jackson was running with one of the best PG's in the nation and a future #14 pick playing the wing opposite Jackson, how could the team _not_ be better than the one he played with this year? Of course Oregon was better when they had Ridnour and Jones. Kind of like the Celtics were better with Walker and Delk. This may just be me, but this stance just seems a little...I dunno...obvious.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> b) Ernie Kent can't coach D


This is probably the closest we will get to a legit answer. Ernie Kent doesn't care about defense. Just pure O. Makes his teams exciting to watch, I'll tell you that.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> 
> 
> That's not really a good argument, using his defensive ability to rate his athleticism. As we all know Eddy Curry is a great athlete and he's a marginal defender at best. Same with JC and there are plenty of other examples. Just because Jackson is a four year white college guy doesn't mean he busts his balls on defense. I haven't seen him play all that much but either he's a) just lazy on D or b) Ernie Kent can't coach D


here is my thing, Deranged. Jackson has been labeled as a competitor his entire career. But competitors show up on both ends of the court. Now watching player blow by him left and right for the last 3 years did lead me to believe he had no lateral quickness. Lateral quickness, in basketball, is defined by the ability to move sideways. He didnt stay in front of one person. Now, the combine comes up and he scores well, but lets not blow out of proportion, not freaky. Yet the question NBA people are asking, if he actually has the ability to move his feet, perhaps he is a bit lazy defensively, perhaps not as competitive as once thought. And that is a legit question. Most great perimeter defensive players have great lateral quickness. Watch Artest sometime. No one is going to drive on him without driving squarely into his chest


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, of course Oregon was better when they had Ridnour and Jones on the roster. Which team wouldn't? When Jackson was running with one of the best PG's in the nation and a future #14 pick playing the wing opposite Jackson, how could the team _not_ be better than the one he played with this year? Of course Oregon was better when they had Ridnour and Jones. Kind of like the Celtics were better with Walker and Delk. This may just be me, but this stance just seems a little...I dunno...obvious.


I think the point is, Jones and Ridnour were the stars of those teams, and they aren't all-stars in the NBA...

Yet Luke will be a big time pro?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> This is probably the closest we will get to a legit answer. Ernie Kent doesn't care about defense. Just pure O. Makes his teams exciting to watch, I'll tell you that.


but shouldnt a winner have enough common sense to play D regardless, to move his feet? I mean jeez, the guy got lit up left and right.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

What I meant was, his improvement numbers wise, didn't correlate to more wins for the Ducks.

Ridnour was POY of the year his junior year, not Jackson. His numbers got better, but the team got worse. I know injuries, but it is true.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Should I make s**t up about people then? Should I accuse them of things they didn't do?


Nope, as I pointed out, that's not cool either. If you can't bring it yourself and have to rely on what other people are saying, you might as well keep your mouth shut. 



> At least it's stimulating discussion.


And it would still be a stimulating discussion without the attitude. Probably moreso because there would be a chance some resolution, rather than irritation would come from it.

As it stands, this discussion is pretty much worthless to me because I'm not going to bother trying to separate the rhetorical red herrings from the stuff that may or may not make sense. :|


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

the PAC-10 was so weak this year as well. And college ball has been completely watered down.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> What I meant was, his improvement numbers wise, didn't correlate to more wins for the Ducks?
> 
> Ridnour was POY of the year his junior year, not Jackson. His numbers got better, but the team got worse. I know injuries, but it is true.


Again, Jones and Ridnour were the stars of their teams...

Luke was not until they left.

They are role players in the NBA, yet Luke will be a star?

I'm not going to call anyone out about anything about guys I've liked until they actually play a NBA game.

These guys that Vega are fans of are so good, yet he needs to prove to me and everyone else on this board and the draft board how good they are?


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> read the ****ing posts VV rather then crying every 2 seconds. I said he tested well, I agreed. BUT that brings up a question, if he tested so well, WHY CANT HE STAY IN FRONT OF ANYONE?


Is Vince Carter not quick laterally? What about our own Jamal Crawford? Speed demon Jay Williams, anyone? Is Tayshaun Prince quicker than they are? Is Trenton Hassell quicker than they are?



> You sit here insulting eveyone with this line, "im just asking questions, why havent my questions being answered" when they have been 10x over. Show a little respect, as I have done to you and read the ****ing posts


Seriously, who does Iggy make Kyle Korver look like? Why does Iggy have a huge ceiling, while Jackson doesn't? Am I being rude asking these as of yet unanswered questions?


----------



## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> but shouldnt a winner have enough common sense to play D regardless, to move his feet? I mean jeez, the guy got lit up left and right.


Like HKF said, Ernie Kent doesn't really care about D, so if the coach doesn't preach/teach defense I doubt Jackson will be a great defensive player.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> here is my thing, Deranged. Jackson has been labeled as a competitor his entire career. But competitors show up on both ends of the court. Now watching player blow by him left and right for the last 3 years did lead me to believe he had no lateral quickness. Lateral quickness, in basketball, is defined by the ability to move sideways. He didnt stay in front of one person. Now, the combine comes up and he scores well, but lets not blow out of proportion, not freaky. Yet the question NBA people are asking, if he actually has the ability to move his feet, perhaps he is a bit lazy defensively, perhaps not as competitive as once thought. And that is a legit question. Most great perimeter defensive players have great lateral quickness. Watch Artest sometime. No one is going to drive on him without driving squarely into his chest


Jay Williams.


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## ShakeTiller (Oct 13, 2003)

> Yes. It's not an entirely uncommon phenomenon.


That was VV's response on the question of whether you can test well for lateral quickness, but not be able to guard a dead cat on the perimeter.

If that's the case, what is the value of a great lateral quickness test score, if the player can't translate it into something useful on the court?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Is Vince Carter not quick laterally? What about our own Jamal Crawford? Speed demon Jay Williams, anyone? Is Tayshaun Prince quicker than they are? Is Trenton Hassell quicker than they are?
> ...


there you go again, did I not say Jackson scored better then I expected? And yet, it brings up so many questions that you are afraid to answer. 

Actually Vince Carter isnt quick laterally. And Jamal really isnt either. They are fast in a sprint, but lateral quickness is a different beast. Break out a tape of Ron Artest, or Mickael Pietrus sometime if you want to see lateral quickness. Or Bruce Bowen.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ShakeTiller</b>!
> 
> That was VV's response on the question of whether you can test well for lateral quickness, but not be able to guard a dead cat on the perimeter.
> 
> If that's the case, what is the value of a great lateral quickness test score, if the player can't translate it into something useful on the court?


Usefulness isn't the issue. Neither is future NBA viability. Lateral quickness is, plain and simple.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> 
> 
> Like HKF said, Ernie Kent doesn't really care about D, so if the coach doesn't preach/teach defense I doubt Jackson will be a great defensive player.


A coach told me a long time ago, when I was about 8...

Defense is pretty easy...

Either you're going to move your feet or you aren't.

Ernie Kent doesn't need to teach the kid to be great defensively in order for him to be able to someone, anyone.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShakeTiller</b>!
> 
> That was VV's response on the question of whether you can test well for lateral quickness, but not be able to guard a dead cat on the perimeter.
> 
> If that's the case, what is the value of a great lateral quickness test score, if the player can't translate it into something useful on the court?


a profound question Tiller, one I am sure VV will answer with this exact quote

" I am just asking a question, why arent my questions being answered"


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the point is, Jones and Ridnour were the stars of those teams, and they aren't all-stars in the NBA...
> ...


More making stuff up to suit your argument. When did I say this?

Unbelievable.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> but shouldnt a winner have enough common sense to play D regardless, to move his feet? I mean jeez, the guy got lit up left and right.


Jay Williams.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> More making stuff up to suit your argument. When did I say this?
> ...


What's being made up?

I didn't say you said anything, I was asking you a ?

You just hear whatever you want to hear.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> A coach told me a long time ago, when I was about 8...
> ...


I mean jeez, what is there to teach? Stay in front of your guy. Did Jackson stay in front of anyone? To blame the coaches is an excuse. If the guy is a competitor, then he should be trying to shut people down. Look at Kobe. I am sure he didnt get better coaching in HS then Jackson got in college, yet he gives it his all in trying to defend. So if you have the lateral quickness to defend, and then you dont use it, then what good is it?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> More making stuff up to suit your argument. When did I say this?
> ...


So what is Arenas making up? Are you not saying Jackson will be a big time pro? If your not saying that then why are you baiting me with rude comments? Are you drunk? Your a far classier guy then your showing here


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> What's being made up?
> ...


Then why do you say this:

_"I think the point is, Jones and Ridnour were the stars of those teams, and they aren't all-stars in the NBA...

*Yet Luke will be a big time pro?"*_

Am I missing something in this terribly apparent implication? 



> You just hear whatever you want to hear.


Unbelievable. And hilarious.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> No VV, this isnt stimulating discussion. your title is a bait, you dont read the posts, and your just stating the same fact over and over without answering any of the counters. A discussion requires listening and countering. This is you lecturing on something that hasnt been proven at the next level, yet you look at as fact


Hmmm, best post in this "stimulating discussion"


----------



## onetenthlag (Jul 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> Seriously, who does Iggy make Kyle Korver look like? Why does Iggy have a huge ceiling, while Jackson doesn't?


Just to take a quick stab at this (and I agree that this is a good question which has yet to be answered), maybe it's because Iguodala plays with more athleticism than Jackson.

It's a fact that Jackson's measurables make him appear as athletic, but running drills and doing a standing jump aren't activities that occur in games. From what I saw of both players (mostly against USC over the years in the Pac-10), Iguodala uses his athletic ability in games much more than Jackson does - IMO.

I think that Jackson's athletic ability is being underrated by arenas and rlucas in this thread (I think he will surprise most people once he gets a shot in the league), but I don't think that he will ever be in the same sentence with Iguodala in terms of athletic ability. Mostly b/c Jackson doesn't transfer what he showed in workouts into the games. (From what I observed.)

I feel that this limits Jackson's "potential" when compared with Iguodala. 

Your original question is interesting though, and it would be nice to hear the reasoning from everyone else if they agree that Jackson has a lower ceiling that Iguodala. Not just rhetorical arguments - actual specific reasons why one has more potential for stardom than the other. (I.E. not just "he can't stay in front of anyone" - if you feel that way, try explaining why - anyone who's seen Jackson play has seen him stay in front of people - you've got to be more specific, and I think this thread will be interesting and useful).


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> What I meant was, his improvement numbers wise, didn't correlate to more wins for the Ducks.


That's what happens when you lose one of the best PG's in the nation. On a related note, why did lotto pick Marcus Banks fail to make the NCAA Tourney four years in a row?



> Ridnour was POY of the year his junior year, not Jackson. His numbers got better, but the team got worse.


Exactly. Take Ridnour off the team, put two and two together, and see what you get.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> That's what happens when you lose one of the best PG's in the nation. On a related note, why did otto pick Marcus Banks fail to make the NCAA Tourney four years in a row?
> ...


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> which begs the question, what did Banks do as a rookie? Hmmmmmmmmmmm


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

Actually, when Banks got playing time, he was a pretty decent player, and an outstanding defender. He should make for a good point guard in the future.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> Actually, when Banks got playing time, he was a pretty decent player, and an outstanding defender. He should make for a good point guard in the future.


At least we could discuss Jones, Hinrich, Ridnour, Banks...

They've actually played in an NBA game.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> Actually, when Banks got playing time, he was a pretty decent player, and an outstanding defender. He should make for a good point guard in the future.


He could barely get off the bench. Boston thought so much of him they went out and got journeyman Chucky Atkins, who has a terrible long term deal. This doesnt show much confidence in him.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Banks was also a JUCO player, who played his way up to a No. 11 pick. Banks' team and league are no comparison to Jackson.

Banks played with Dalron Johnson and that is it.

Jackson played with Ridnour and Freddie Jones.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Are you not saying Jackson will be a big time pro?


Correct! In fact, I've never said anything about his pro viability in this thread; in others, I've said that I expect him to put up Mike Miller-type numbers. Is Mike Miller big time?



> If your not saying that then why are you baiting me with rude comments?


Seriously, look at my initial post. Ask yourself, Did I answer his questions? Take each one, write two or three sentences, and explain your stance. Don't go off on a tangent. Just answer what I've been asking for six pages now. That's all I ask. It's not hard.



> Are you drunk?


No, but I soon will be.



> Your a far classier guy then your showing here


I didn't realize asking questions and desiring answers was being unclassy.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>onetenthlag</b>!
> 
> 
> Just to take a quick stab at this (and I agree that this is a good question which has yet to be answered), maybe it's because Iguodala plays with more athleticism than Jackson.
> ...


FINALLY, someone gets it. THANK YOU.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

This isn't a huge point....

But...

I remember the Cincy-Oregon game 2 years ago...

Oregon was scoring like 100 a game, and then they played each other I think in NJ for a tournament, and Cincy won by like 30-40 pts.

Luke Jackson was guarding Bobbitt, and he hit for like 30 something points.

Both Lukes looked like they didn't even belong on the floor with the Bearcat players so much quicker, more athletic.

Man did they get waxed that night.

I remember this is when I started paying attention to these guys and thinking, hmm these guys aren't that good.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Correct! In fact, I've never said anything about his pro viability in this thread; in others, I've said that I expect him to put up Mike Miller-type numbers. Is Mike Miller big time?
> ...


I said he tested better then I thought. And then you badger and OPENLY BAIT me with answer my question. Well Jeez, I said HE TESTED BETTER THEN I THOUGHT. Isnt that giving him props? it is where I come from. Thats an answer. 

My counter is, if he tested so well, why didnt he play a lick of D? A conversation usually entitles that you answer it. Others have laid some theories down, its you who is avoiding that question.

Frankly baiting someone in the title line and acting like a know it all isnt classy. And I know you better then that. And frankly, its disappointing

Now, your telling me that your baiting me, arguing with me, calling Arenas names, and going for 6 pages for a player you dont think is going to be that good? Maybe you are drunk now. Quick, put your arm out, now touch your nose and walk in a straight line.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Jackson played with Ridnour and Freddie Jones.


...and when he did, Oregon made it to the Elite Eight.

You can't have it both ways.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> FINALLY, someone gets it. THANK YOU.


he disagreed with you. he said that the combine tests are not representive of what happens in a game. Again, are you drunk?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> ...and when he did, Oregon made it to the Elite Eight.
> ...


they made it cause of Ridnour and Jones, who were their 2 best players, not because of Jackson, who was option #3.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Correct! In fact, I've never said anything about his pro viability in this thread; in others, I've said that I expect him to put up Mike Miller-type numbers. Is Mike Miller big time?


He won ROY in 2000...

Do you think Luke will be a ROY candidate?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> He won ROY in 2000...
> ...


But he was argubaly the worst rookie to ever win the award. he was a member of that infamous 2000 class


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> But he was argubaly the worst rookie to ever win the award. he was a member of that infamous 2000 class


Agreed, my question though was does he think Luke will be a ROY candidate?

Vega said the other day that any other Hinrich would have been in contention for ROY any other year except this one and Artestfan threw that claim in the trash.

I'm interested to hear this one.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I said he tested better then I thought. And then you badger and OPENLY BAIT me with answer my question. Well Jeez, I said HE TESTED BETTER THEN I THOUGHT. Isnt that giving him props? it is where I come from. Thats an answer.


It's not an answer to either of the questions I asked in my initial post. othenlag gets it. He takes my initial post and dissects it. Why don't you do the same? 



> My counter is, if he tested so well, why didnt he play a lick of D?


Jay Williams.



> Frankly baiting someone in the title line and acting like a know it all isnt classy. And I know you better then that. And frankly, its disappointing


Which is worse, baiting someone in the title line and subsquently asking two very valid questions, or making stuff up/accusing somebody of something they didn't do in a public forum in an effort to discredit their opionions (ie, "I know as a fact you have never criticized Hinrich").



> Now, your telling me that your baiting me, arguing with me, calling Arenas names, and going for 6 pages for a player you dont think is going to be that good? Maybe you are drunk now. Quick, put your arm out, now touch your nose and walk in a straight line.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> he disagreed with you. he said that the combine tests are not representive of what happens in a game. Again, are you drunk?


He answered my questions.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Agreed, my question though was does he think Luke will be a ROY candidate?
> ...


hmmm usually Hinrichs stats would have had him higher on ROY votes in years prior. I agree with VV on that. However, most of the time, those teams have to be better year over year for that rookie to get the full credit he deserves. So while I am not sure Kirk would have been ROY of the year, any other year, he certainly would have been higher then 4th or 5th in most years.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> He won ROY in 2000...


Yes he did. 2000 was also a weak draft. 



> Do you think Luke will be a ROY candidate?


I think he has an outside shot, partly because he can contribute right now.


----------



## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He could barely get off the bench. Boston thought so much of him they went out and got journeyman Chucky Atkins, who has a terrible long term deal. This doesnt show much confidence in him.


It wasn't because he was a bad player. Ask any C's fan and they'll tell you how the coaching staff never played any young players. At all. They had Walter McCarty playing 35+ MPG at PF for cryin' out loud lol. Banks will show he is a good player under Doc Rivers this year.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> It's not an answer to either of the questions I asked in my initial post. othenlag gets it. He takes my initial post and dissects it. Why don't you do the same?
> ...


[strike]Now your just being a baby[/strike]. Did I not apologize to you. maybe you ought to apologize to me for openly baiting me

I said he tested very well, better then I thought. Thats an answer. 

Are you saying Luke Jackson is Jay Williams? Real clever answer. 

Here is another question? Do the combines matter? If they do, as you argue here, then isnt Collison a slow, weak, fat ***? Or do they only matter when they prove your point?


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> hmmm usually Hinrichs stats would have had him higher on ROY votes in years prior. I agree with VV on that. However, most of the time, those teams have to be better year over year for that rookie to get the full credit he deserves. So while I am not sure Kirk would have been ROY of the year, any other year, he certainly would have been higher then 4th or 5th in most years.


And that, arenas, was my point on the other thread.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Now your just being a baby. Did I not apologize to you. maybe you ought to apologize to me for openly baiting me
> 
> ...


Did I not apologize to you?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Now your just being a baby. Did I not apologize to you. maybe you ought to apologize to me for openly baiting me
> 
> ...


Did I not apologize to you? Why wont anyone answer my questions?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Did I not apologize to you? Why wont anyone answer my questions?


Simple question, why wont you answer it? Did I not apologize to you?


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> And that, arenas, was my point on the other thread.


Really what was your point because I'm confused?

Here was your quote...



> P.S. Hinrich's stats would've put him in ROY consideration any other year than last. If he were on a better team, his numbers would likely be even better. Somehow, people like you [arenas809] can't figure this out.


Hinrich got 4 3rd place votes this year, so wasn't he in contention this year?

Then if we add Artestfan's post to this...



> Also VincentVega, which other years would Hinrich really have gotten ROY consideration? If there were at least two players who clearly had better rookie years than Hinrich, we can safely say he would not have gotten consideration.
> 
> 2004 - over LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Dwyane Wade, no.
> 2003 - over Amare Stoudemire and Yao Ming, no.
> ...


So your point in almost any other year Hinrich would have lost just like he did this year?

Was that your point?


----------



## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

How is Collison slow and fat? Relatively week yes, but I wouldn't call him fat or slow.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Simple question, why wont you answer it? Did I not apologize to you?


Hmmm, what does someone around here have to do to get an answer? 

You know that I did and you want to still bring it up after baiting me? Thats what seperates me from you VV. Ill stand up and say I am wrong. Youll just keep attacking and calling it "stimulating discussion" when all it is, is an open bait.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> How is Collison slow and fat? Relatively week yes, but I wouldn't call him fat or slow.


he had 18% +/- body fat last year, which qualifies you for obesity. And his running and jumping scores, if i remember correctly (I am sure VV will correct me if I am wrong) left alot to be desired. Yet excuses were being made for him. So its a bit of a paradox


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Hmmm, what does someone around here have to do to get an answer?
> 
> You know that I did and you want to still bring it up after baiting me? Thats what seperates me from you VV. Ill stand up and say I am wrong. Youll just keep attacking and calling it "stimulating discussion" when all it is, is an open bait.


lol....

Nah, the open bait was HEY RLUCAS.....

lolol....

Vega, please get me Luke's info, not his private info, wink, but I need to get in touch with his agent so I can get a piece of all this free marketing he's getting by me saying his name in my posts being seen by millions over the net.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Now your just being a baby. Did I not apologize to you.


Sure you did -- but only after you ignored other peoples' claims and link refuting your assertion and supporting mine, and after I had to dig up old posts to unequivocally prove my case. Only then did you offer a small apology. Were you being unclassy then?



> maybe you ought to apologize to me for openly baiting me


Baiting, schmating....all you had to do was answer the questions.



> I said he tested very well, better then I thought. Thats an answer.


Not to the questions I asked in my initial post, and you know it. 



> Are you saying Luke Jackson is Jay Williams? Real clever answer.


No, and how you get to this assumption is way the hell beyond me. My citation of Jay Williams was thrown in the debate to show that your "lateral quickness = great defender, especially if you're a hard-nosed college guy" argument was silly. 



> Here is another question? Do the combines matter?


I'd say they do. I imagine a lot of other people would agree.



> If they do, as you argue here, then isnt Collison a slow, weak, fat ***?


No, because that just isn't the case. Sorry to break it to you, but Collison recorded:

a 33" vertical leap (the same as Bosh, higher than Darko and David West, 1" less than Okafor);

a better lane agility time than Bosh, Cook, West, Childress, Okafor and Jefferson;

a better 3/4 sprint time than Bosh, Darko, Cook and West.

Those are facts. Deal with them as you wish.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Nope, but you did essentially mock my opinion on the guy a few weeks ago, comparing him to Kyle Korver. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not mad or upset or anything. I merely want an explanation. Like I said before, I still have 100% respect for you and what you say. I'm just a little confused why you can say one thing so readily one day, but then turn around and act like it didn't happen the next.
> ...


Hmmm, so you admit there was an apology in there somewhere. Yet you want to keep bringing it up. Real cool. 

Now lets talk about your open baiting of me for a second. Wouldnt a classy guy like you step up to the plate and admit that your a little off base with your baits and tone here?


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> he had 18% +/- body fat last year, which qualifies you for obesity.


Wrong. He recorded 17%, which is still high...but that doesn't matter, seeing as how he's probably in better shape (ie, can run farther for a longer period of time) than most big man prospects in his class.



> And his running and jumping scores, if i remember correctly (I am sure VV will correct me if I am wrong) left alot to be desired. Yet excuses were being made for him. So its a bit of a paradox


Paradox. Yeah. Know your material before you bring forth more erroneous assertions.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Sure you did -- but only after you ignored other peoples' claims and link refuting your assertion and supporting mine, and after I had to dig up old posts to unequivocally prove my case. Only then did you offer a small apology. Were you being unclassy then?
> ...


what do you want me to do? give you head? I said VV, your right, I was wrong and apologized to you. Now do you want something more.

Your behavior on this thread is out of whack. Very unlike you. And your not even reading the posts. I have answered your questions and asked counter questions that you have not answered once. But youll sit there and bait and bait and bait. And all for a guy that you dont even think it that good? Do you know what waste of time is VV? Cause your doing it right now.


----------



## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> he had 18% +/- body fat last year, which qualifies you for obesity. And his running and jumping scores, if i remember correctly (I am sure VV will correct me if I am wrong) left alot to be desired. Yet excuses were being made for him. So its a bit of a paradox


He actually had 17%, and that does not qualify you for obesity. Where did you get that info from? I'm not calling you out and saying you're wrong, but every health professional I've ever heard has said that 14%-19% is perfectly healthy and normal. Go over that and you're getting into the overweight range. Go under that and you have freaks like LeBron. Vega already presented his combine scores so I don't need to do that.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Why is this thread still going?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> 
> 
> He actually had 17%, and that does not qualify you for obesity. Where did you get that info from? I'm not calling you out and saying you're wrong, but every health professional I've ever heard has said that 14%-19% is perfectly healthy and normal. Go over that and you're getting into the overweight range. Go under that and you have freaks like LeBron. Vega already presented his combine scores so I don't need to do that.


12-16% is normal. anything over is overweight. I bet your typical NBA player is under 9. That kid is closer to Oliver Miller then he is to the norm in the NBA. But those dont matter because Collison is one of VVs boys


----------



## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

Where exactly did you read/hear it was 12%-16%?

I've read in textbooks and medical journals that the norm is 14-19.

Saying Collison is closer to Oliver Miller is kind of hyperbole don't you think? lol


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Wouldnt a classy guy like you step up to the plate and admit that your a little off base with your baits and tone here?


I wouldn't have brought them up if you wouldn't have made the "Luke Jackson makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen, before the injuries" comment, which I thought was 100% wrong.

Did I insult you with my initial post? If so, I'm sorry. I thought you were equipped to prove your side of the argument easily and effectively, and in doing so would make my initial post look dumb and unfounded.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought my initial post on this thread asked two very interesting questions.

Didn't you just call me a baby?

Wow.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> what do you want me to do? give you head? I said VV, your right, I was wrong and apologized to you. Now do you want something more.


No I don't. I would prefer my questions be answered, though.



> And your not even reading the posts.


Another erroneous assumption. Remember when you thought I was ignoring you a page or two ago? It took me a while to respond because I was....*gasp*...reading all the posts.



> I have answered your questions


No you haven't. othenlag has. You haven't.



> and asked counter questions that you have not answered once.


For example?



> And all for a guy that you dont even think it that good? Do you know what waste of time is VV? Cause your doing it right now.


Who cares if it's a waste of time or not? That's not the issue. Quit with the tangential talk.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> I wouldn't have brought them up if you wouldn't have made the "Luke Jackson makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen, before the injuries" comment, which I thought was 100% wrong.
> ...


you have been insulting me for over an hour when I admitted that the kid had better scores then I thought. And then I wondered out loud why, with that ability, did he not play a lick of D? which you never answered. And when I asked for an apology for calling me out and baiting me for over an hour, you bring something up that i APOLOGIZED for a LONG ****ING TIME AGO. i was a man and apologzied. You however havent. Yes VV your being a baby. 

No your initial post was the title. And it was a bait. And then you took two swipes at Grinch and Arenas, which were also baits. And then when it was pointed out that those scores dont necessarily translate to games, you claimed "no one is answering my questions". baiting isnt permitted here. posters have gotten banned for worse.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> 12-16% is normal. anything over is overweight.


Wrong again.

According to the American Council of Exercise, 17% is thoroughly normal in men. Anything 25% or above is classified as obese.

Seriously, do you just make stuff up?



> But those dont matter because Collison is one of VVs boys


Why do you do this, especially when you're flat out digging yourself in a hole with one dishonest statement after another?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

By the way VV, how can anyone have an intelligent conversation with you if your going to bring things up from the past that have absolutely no bearing on the conversation at hand?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> ...


My fiancee is a doctor and I can tell you for a fact, that 17% is on the high side. Should I use the word "obese"? Probably not, I am sorry for that (Again, what seperates me from you) but 12-16% is where the fit man falls into. Collison doesnt fit into that. What does the NBA player fall into? My guess is sub 10%. So in regards to the NBA, the word Obese does fit

Is 17% acceptable for an NBA player? I am sure there have been great players that high (barkley for instance), but not many.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> By the way VV, how can anyone have an intelligent conversation with you if your going to bring things up from the past that have absolutely no bearing on the conversation at hand?


RL let it go...

This kid has decided to take on defending the games of Hinrich and Jackson as some kind of cause...

He'd be better served helping out the campaign for dolphin safe tuna..


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> you have been insulting me for over an hour


Who called whom a baby?

That's right.



> when I admitted that the kid had better scores then I thought.


..which is NOT an answer to either of my questions.



> And then I wondered out loud why, with that ability, did he not play a lick of D? which you never answered.


Jay Williams.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> By the way VV, how can anyone have an intelligent conversation with you if your going to bring things up from the past that have absolutely no bearing on the conversation at hand?


Why do you keep trying to change the subject to Jackson's defense, or the success of Jackson's team, or Jackson's future NBA viability, instead of answering my questions?


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen...*



> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> ...(before the injuries, of course), then what does Andre Iguodala make Kyle Korver look like? Barry Sanders?
> 
> Jackson tested out as stronger, quicker and a better leaper than did Iggy. So someone please fill me in: why does Jackson have a set ceiling on his potential, while Iggy doesn't?
> ...


you have never heard me call iggy a star or future star or heard me say a bad word about luke jackson , i like his athletic ability and shooting and dribbling skills , do i think he is the next larry bird or michael jordan? no but i hold no player in this draft in that high a regard or even close to be honest....so i guess i put a ceiling on everyone in the draft even the guy i think the bulls should draft whom i feel has the highest ceiling in josh smith.

point blank jackson is a known quantity and his skills are known but they strike no one as legendary ...just at best very very good...oddly enough the best attribute he has is his athletic ability , after going 4 years of college, he would have to be off the charts good above and beyond anyone else , like duncan or shaq.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> My fiancee is a doctor and I can tell you for a fact, that 17% is on the high side.


My father has been practicing emergency medicine for 31 years, and I can tell you for a fact that 17% is not "obese" or "overweight".



> Should I use the word "obese"? Probably not, I am sorry for that (Again, what seperates me from you)


I apolgized in this thread. A few posts up. Now, who's the one who doesn't read all the posts?



> but 12-16% is where the fit man falls into. Collison doesnt fit into that. What does the NBA player fall into? My guess is sub 10%. So in regards to the NBA, the word Obese does fit


That's some wicked spin.



> Is 17% acceptable for an NBA player? I am sure there have been great players that high (barkley for instance), but not many.


Thank goodness we know that Collison is not only fat, he's also slow, weak and can't jump. Good to know that info, rlucas.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Who called whom a baby?
> ...


Your being a baby when you bring up info totally impertinent to the conversation to try and discredit someone. And it took me an hour of you baiting me to say it. In fact, a mod said it to me on PM as well

Jay williams? what does that have to do with luke jacksons inability to play D? So jay had good foot speed and didnt use it. So Jackson is excused? Give me a break. 

Your being foolish. ANd its frankly quite sad that one of the better posters here is acting in such a way. Lets see, you bait me, call me out, I said Yes, i am surprised at how well Jackson did, therefor giving you your props, and you act like a little twirp. Where is my answer? Where is my answer? Ofcourse the combines matter, Troy Bell doesnt count, Nick Collison doesnt count but it matters for this kid? And then you YOURSELF said this kid isnt going to be special. Youve lost it. And whats most funny is that i defended you on a thread baiting you earlier. 

Sorry, but your going on ignore til you figure it out. PM if you want to talk about it. Its a sad day when a top 5 poster completely shows his immaturity when it comes down to baiting someone on a subject matter that you yourself said you didnt think the kid would be a big time player. Sad day, sad day. 

Someone lock this thread


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen...*



> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> you have never heard me call iggy a star or future star or heard me say a bad word about luke jackson


My bad.

Nobody's calling anything Luke Jackson does legendary. Some merely think he is (or was) the recipient of several unwarranted pot shots.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pip*



> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> My bad.
> ...


10 pages and over 100 responses because you didn't feel the guy deserved a few pot shots?

DC, LOCK THIS CRAP.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> I wouldn't have brought them up if you wouldn't have made the "Luke Jackson makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen, before the injuries" comment, which I thought was 100% wrong.
> ...


yeah VV, this is a real apology.

You basically said yeah I am sorry,,,,,,,,,,,,that your not smart enough to have a conversation with me. 

And you wonder why your being such a baby?


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

rlucas fails to answer the two simple questions I posed in my initial thread and subsequently puts me on ignore.

Classic.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pip*



> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> 10 pages and over 100 responses because you didn't feel the guy deserved a few pot shots?


Hey, if I wanted to I could spend a million posts detailing the merits of Ronald Dupree.



> DC, LOCK THIS CRAP.


Why, because you don't agree with it?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> rlucas fails to answer the two simple questions I posed in my initial thread and subsequently puts me on ignore.
> 
> Classic.


i said he tested better then I thought, that was an answer. I said I thought he had bad lateral quickness cause he couldnt/wouldnt guard anyone. That is an answer. Then i said the combines also dont tell the whole story. I referred to Troy Bell

Now read the thread and quit being such a little baby. Again, you just keep baiting people, and ill tell you again, posters have been banned for less. 

Now, you are on Ignore.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> yeah VV, this is a real apology.
> 
> You basically said yeah I am sorry,,,,,,,,,,,,that your not smart enough to have a conversation with me.


...which is essentially what your apology consisted of after you called me out and openly questioned my credibility vis a vis "you never criticize Hinrich" a number of weeks ago. Want me to go find that post and bring it back up so you can witness your work?


----------



## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

I really don't think Vega's actions qualify being banned.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Okay, I'm gonna try my best to piece together my two questions with the answers you've given me in this thread.

*VincentVega:* rlucas, if Luke Jackson's agility makes Kyle Korver look like Scottie Pippen (before the injuries, of course), then what does Andre Iguodala make Kyle Korver look like? Barry Sanders?

*rlucas:* He tested better then I thought.

*VincentVega:* Someone please fill me in: why does Jackson have a set ceiling on his potential, while Iggy doesn't?

*rlucas:* I thought he had bad lateral quickness cause he couldnt/wouldnt guard anyone.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> I really don't think Vega's actions qualify being banned.


Did anyone say he was going to be banned? i am just saying people have been banned for less. the open baiting is being cracked down on. And there can be no doubt that VV is openly baiting me on this thread.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> I really don't think Vega's actions qualify being banned.


You are right. No one is getting banned. Let's everyone drop it. This could have been a good thread had it not been for the attitude and post shots. 

The thread was getting nowhere fast. 

Try not to make it personal!!


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