# Luke Jackson vs. Andre Iguodala



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

*Game 1, @ Arizona*
Iguodala: 14 points (6-10 FG), 3 rebounds, 5 assists
Jackson: 20 points (7-15 FG), 6 rebounds, 6 assists

*Game 2, @ Oregon*
Iguodala: 12 points (5-11 FG), 7 rebounds, 2 assists (fouled out in 22 minutes)
Jackson: 42 points (14-21 FG), 10 rebounds, 4 assists


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

whats your point?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> whats your point?


Well, if Hong Kong Fooey is going to point out a weakness of Jackson, that he played badly against Michigan in the NIT, surely it's of value that he played very well against Iguodala, a projected NBA defensive stopper with better athleticism.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

hmmm a one man team who lost both games by a cumulative 37 pts.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think Luke Jackson is slipping under the radar because like Kirk Hinrich, he's a white guy who was good in college, so obviously he's not going to be much more than a role player in the pros.

I like what I've seen of his game, and he could be the steal of the draft if he slips down into the late 1st or early second.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, if Hong Kong Fooey is going to point out a weakness of Jackson, that he played badly against Michigan in the NIT, surely it's of value that he played very well against Iguodala, a projected NBA defensive stopper with better athleticism.


So he outscored a guy by a ton with both games in garbage time early. That doesnt say much. Considering Igoudala was UofAs 4th option and Jackson was the only option of Oregon, it doesnt tell me much. You lose by 24 and then 13, and the statline said Oregon rallied late in that game, thats not so good


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So he outscored a guy by a ton with both games in garbage time early. That doesnt say much. Considering Igoudala was UofAs 4th option and Jackson was the only option of Oregon, it doesnt tell me much. You lose by 24 and then 13, and the statline said Oregon rallied late in that game, thats not so good


I haven't seen enough of Jackson to have a strong read, so for the most part I'll have to stay out of this one.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> I haven't seen enough of Jackson to have a strong read, so for the most part I'll have to stay out of this one.


DMD your picking 15, do you take Jackson or Igoudala?


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

Iggy


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So he outscored a guy by a ton with both games in garbage time early. That doesnt say much. Considering Igoudala was UofAs 4th option and Jackson was the only option of Oregon, it doesnt tell me much. You lose by 24 and then 13, and the statline said Oregon rallied late in that game, thats not so good


The one thing that caught my eye is that he fouled out in 22 minutes in the second game. Just bad luck?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Devestata</b>!
> 
> 
> The one thing that caught my eye is that he fouled out in 22 minutes in the second game. Just bad luck?


Chances are it was in MAC court, where the noise of the crowd does influence how whistles are blown. That game against Colorado in the NIT, they were hammering David Harrison with no whistles, while Jackson was going off.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> DMD your picking 15, do you take Jackson or Igoudala?


I pick Iguodala on mad, freakish upside. At 15 I don't mind the risks, but I still worry about whether the kid will pan out.

I watch a lot of ball and like to imagine myself a closet scout, but I just don't feel as confident in my opinions about a lot of these players. I certainly differ on some opinions with Hong Kong Fooey. For instance, I think Jameer Nelson is a solid pro for sure. I just think he has really good body control and aggressiveness and will be fine in the league. As a burly 6' point guard (5'11" in shoes), he is barrel chested and still weighs more than Jamal. I think he'll be fine.

So obviously there are some major discrepencies. To be honest, I'm not sure of Iguodala, Okafor, Josh Smith, Deng, Jackson. Everybody has holes this year, except for maybe players I'm not familiar with. Hell, I was unsure about Carmelo last year. I though his lack of elite athleticism would slow him down. And it's not that I wasn't in love with him as a college player. I was one of the only people who picked Cuse to win the tournament. I was pretty confident in Wade and Hinrich last year. They both had excellent credentials in college that I trusted and very good athleticism. 

I could see all of the guys that I had questions about being stars in the NBA, even Jackson, although I would see him more along the lines of a Wally. That guy does have offensive skills and a high level motor.

So yes, I would pick Iguodala, but regardless of Lute's motivation, I do take his words to heart somewhat. If the kid does not have the necessary work ethic, then Jackson could very well end up being a better pro. 

The biggest grey area is work ethic, rlucas. I want to get a good report on that for each player before I really feel good about drafting them. Look at Curry. How amazing would he be if he had a high end work ethic? I know that I don't have a top level work ethic, and I don't think I ever will. And I'm a very responsible person. This needs to be factored in, and it's hard for the common fan to find out about HS kids and whether their work ethic will translate. But it's easy to see that it's there for Wade, Hinrich, Nelson, Jackson, and Okafor because we've seen them in the spotlight for a few years and we know what their coaches and teammates say about them.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> DMD your picking 15, do you take Jackson or Igoudala?


I don't have a feel for Jackson's game either, but is there any chance that Iggy drops to 15?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't have a feel for Jackson's game either, but is there any chance that Iggy drops to 15?


your guy is dropping mate

2 things. Lute Olson, arsehole that he is, is telling everyone within earshot that Iggy isnt ready. That has gotten alot of peoples attention. He is trying to talk this kid BACK into school

Also, apparently Iggy and Jackson are at hoops the gym. Word as leaked out that Jackson is schooling him big time. and his stock is taking a hit. Who knows what that means but thats the word. Then again, Barbosa schooled Wade in a workout last year and we all see how well Wade has done


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't have a feel for Jackson's game either, but is there any chance that Iggy drops to 15?


Word is he's slipping, but I don't think he'll slip that far. Some lottery team will be enamored with his all around game and the fact that he can jump over a small house.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> your guy is dropping mate
> 
> ...


I had assumed Lute Olsen was above something like that -- it's not like Iggy is going to return to Arizona. But, you may have the only explantation why the coach would go public.

As far as getting schooled by Jackson: does this really surprise anyone? You're not going to draft Iggy because he is a finished product. You draft him because you think the things he does translate well to the NBA, and that he will fill out the rest of his game. I would think that the fact that he is at hoops working on his game, would be a positive factor... anyways, 

probably preaching to the crowd since I know a lot of the people here are pro-Iggy.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> *Game 1, @ Arizona*
> Iguodala: 14 points (6-10 FG), 3 rebounds, 5 assists
> Jackson: 20 points (7-15 FG), 6 rebounds, 6 assists
> ...


Did you see either game? I watched both and you could at least put the full statlines out there for everyone.

Game 1: @ Arizona... Arizona 90, Oregon 66

Iguodala: 14 points (6-10 FG), 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 turnover and *5 steals*.
Jackson: 20 points (7-15 FG), 6 rebounds, 6 assists, *8 turnovers*.

Iggy's defense in that game led to a LOT of running for the Wildcats and they cruised the entire game. They were up like 50-25 at halftime. They had dunk after dunk in that first half and in the 2nd, they pretty much played "prevent D."

Game 2: @ Oregon... Arizona 100, Oregon 87

Iguodala: 12 points (5-11 FG), 7 rebounds, 2 assists (fouled out in 22 minutes)... also had 2 steals and 2 turnovers
Jackson: 42 points (14-21 FG), 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 4 turnovers

Game 2 was much like the 1st game, only difference that Jackson was hot from outside the 3 point arch. Zona again led by 20 or so at the half and played "prevent D" in a run and gun 2nd half. If I remember correctly, Iggy had like 3 fouls in the matter of a minute, and they were stupid gambles on his part... it went with him being aggressive... well that and a very poorly officiated game.

Luke was also 6 for 9 from 3 land and got 8 shots at the line thanks to the "fouls" on Iggy.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Word is he's slipping, but I don't think he'll slip that far. Some lottery team will be enamored with his all around game and the fact that he can jump over a small house.


Exactly.

Paul Pierce slipped too... wonder who made out in that deal?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Luke Jackson vs. Andre Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you see either game? I watched both and you could at least put the full statlines out there for everyone.
> ...


Very interesting. Thanks for the insignt


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Some lottery team will be enamored with his all around game and the fact that he can jump over a small house.


This is quote of the year potential...

Some great quotes on this board lately


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

I believe Jackson is nearly 3 years older then Iguodala anyway, which is an eternity in today's NBA... good or bad.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> This is quote of the year potential...
> ...


Every draft is about potential, not just this year. Some players just have more "materialized" amounts thus far. That is where the guess work comes into play.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Luke Jackson vs. Andre Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> Game 2: @ Oregon... Arizona 100, Oregon 87
> 
> ...


Like I had said. At Mac Court opposing players are going to be whistled for a bunch of fouls. Especially against the star player of that team.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> whats your point?


That Jackson is

1. Generally better than you give him credit for being.
2. He can score in a variety of ways. He's not just a shooter.
3. He can score against quality (athletic) defenders.
4. Iggy is slightly overrated.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So he outscored a guy by a ton with both games in garbage time early. That doesnt say much.


So he had a bad game. That doesn't say much.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> That Jackson is
> ...


You watched both games, buzzer to buzzer, correct?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> You watched both games, buzzer to buzzer, correct?


Yes. And good call on pointing out steals/TO's above.

I also saw that Arizona had much, much more talent than did Oregon.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Just a question, and I dont have an answer. How many current (meaning last year) UofA guys will actually be in the pros? We know Iggy. Frye has been a huge disappointment. Mustafa? I am just trying to get a feel cause I dont know. But this clearly was one of the worst teams they had in a long long time. In fact, my beloved pac10 was just awful this year


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes. And good call on pointing out steals/TO's above.
> ...


If you had watched both games, you'll also remeber that Iguodala was only matched up with Jackson when Oregon was able to run half court sets, of which, Oregon didn't get to run many.

In both games, they lived and died by the 3 ball. I can only remember maybe 10-15 times when they were directly matched up on each other in each game, and in the first game Iguodala ripped Jackson 4 straight times down the floor and got called for fouls in the 2nd game for playing the same D.

I actually think I have these games on tape, so I'll review if I do and get back with you.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> If you had watched both games, you'll also remeber that Iguodala was only matched up with Jackson when Oregon was able to run half court sets, of which, Oregon didn't get to run many.
> ...


Interesting. Could you post the scouting report that you see if you decide to rewatch the games? Thanks in advance


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Just a question, and I dont have an answer. How many current (meaning last year) UofA guys will actually be in the pros? We know Iggy. Frye has been a huge disappointment. Mustafa? I am just trying to get a feel cause I dont know. But this clearly was one of the worst teams they had in a long long time. In fact, my beloved pac10 was just awful this year


Well, too bad, you're getting an answer. Sort of.

I almost picked Arizona for a surprise NCAA tournament victory. Then I changed at the last minute and picked UCONN (4 for 4 for last few years, thank you!)

Don't forget Hassan Adams. He's going to be a good pro, very similar to Quentin Richardson, I think.

I think Salim will get drafted in the second round next year too. Frye is not as much of a disappointment to me. He should be a low first round pick next year.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Just a question, and I dont have an answer. How many current (meaning last year) UofA guys will actually be in the pros? We know Iggy. Frye has been a huge disappointment. Mustafa? I am just trying to get a feel cause I dont know. But this clearly was one of the worst teams they had in a long long time. In fact, my beloved pac10 was just awful this year


Iggy
Adams -- tweener, but too athletic to pass on)
Frye -- at least in the 2nd round...he's bulked up to 6'11", 250 and has good skills
Shakur -- might leave after his sophomore year, actually
Stoudamire has an outside chance, but it's slim

Don't forget they're all coached by a HOF coach in Lute Olsen.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> I almost picked Arizona for a surprise NCAA tournament victory. Then I changed at the last minute and picked UCONN (4 for 4 for last few years, thank you!)
> ...


UofA is my hated rivals. But they didnt seem like that great a team this year. I caught some of their NCAA games and a couple of minutes of their regular season to watch Igoudala. I dont know how this reflects on him personally. I worry that he wasnt a world beater in a down year for that program in a down year in that conference. But then again, the guy has an NBA body NBA handles, and a very unique game. He goes hard to the basket, like Wade almost. But no J. Still, the RJ stuff might not be far off. And RJ is turning into a front line star in this league


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Iggy
> ...


i hate Lute. I went on a recruiting trip there out of HS. And it was such a waste of my time. and this talk of him talking Iggy down so he will go back to school is the lowest thing you could do to a kid. its blatant messing with a kids livlihood. he might be HOF, but he certainly isnt going to be on the All Class team any time soon


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

Fox (Carlos Boozer)
Adams (Quentin Richardson)
Stoudamire (Gilbert Arenas)
Frye (Tyson Chandler)
Radenovic (Luke Jackson)

Don't like Shakur, as I am just not sold on him.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> Fox (Carlos Boozer)
> Adams (Quentin Richardson)
> Stoudamire (Gilbert Arenas)
> ...


so 5 guys could be in the NBA? What happened to them this year?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> If you had watched both games, you'll also remeber that Iguodala was only matched up with Jackson when Oregon was able to run half court sets, of which, Oregon didn't get to run many.


True, but Jackson also scored on Iggy in transition and killed him running off screens and hitting from deep (especially the game @ Oregon). IIRC, Adams guarded Jackson for a bit, too, but didn't do much in terms of defending Jackson.



> I actually think I have these games on tape, so I'll review if I do and get back with you.


Please do. I'd like to know if my recollections are wrong.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> UofA is my hated rivals. But they didnt seem like that great a team this year. I caught some of their NCAA games and a couple of minutes of their regular season to watch Igoudala. I dont know how this reflects on him personally. I worry that he wasnt a world beater in a down year for that program in a down year in that conference. But then again, the guy has an NBA body NBA handles, and a very unique game. He goes hard to the basket, like Wade almost. But no J. Still, the RJ stuff might not be far off. And RJ is turning into a front line star in this league


He's the hardest college player who's a potential lottery pick to get a read on, if you ask me. There's something a bit scary about the way he blended into that team as opposed to taking over. He just doesn't have the natural scorer's knack, and he usually deferred to Adams and Salim. But on the other hand it's easy to imagine him becoming much better in the pros quite quickly, much like Jefferson, but a much better passer.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> I had assumed Lute Olsen was above something like that -- it's not like Iggy is going to return to Arizona. But, you may have the only explantation why the coach would go public.


Err....



> As far as getting schooled by Jackson: does this really surprise anyone? You're not going to draft Iggy because he is a finished product. You draft him because you think the things he does translate well to the NBA, and that he will fill out the rest of his game. I would think that the fact that he is at hoops working on his game, would be a positive factor... anyways,
> 
> probably preaching to the crowd since I know a lot of the people here are pro-Iggy.


..... isn't the fact that Iggy is getting schooled by Jackson and the fact that apparently Iggy's stock is dropping some evidence that maybe, just maybe, Olsen is simply telling it like it is?

I know it's chic to be a conspiracy theorist and to sit behind a computer and make up all kinds of stuff to impugn someone's record, but for me the facts are pretty clear.

1) Olsen's seen plenty of his kids declare before and not bad mouthed them.
2) Olsen's criticism of Iggy, based on his performances to date, appears to be pretty valid.

Until I seem some compelling evidence to the contrary, making some kind of major re-evaluations about a guy's record based on this is not indicative of rigorous thought on the subject 

And oh yeah, the guy who's making such a big fuss about it has a stated UA bashing agenda... add all that up and it appears insulting to one's intelligence to even think about it.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> True, but Jackson also scored on Iggy in transition and killed him running off screens and hitting from deep (especially the game @ Oregon). IIRC, Adams guarded Jackson for a bit, too, but didn't do much in terms of defending Jackson.
> ...


IIRC, whats this an abbreviation for?


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> so 5 guys could be in the NBA? What happened to them this year?


Too many mouths to feed on the court at all times. That and Isiah Fox actually was injured, forcing Igoudala to play the PF spot most of the season.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> so 5 guys could be in the NBA? What happened to them this year?


To be honest, I think it's a bit of an indictment on Lute. He didn't seem to have good command of the team. Plus, they were a very young team, and they played like it. They had no idea how to win at the end of games against good teams. 

I seriously almost picked them to win the tournament. That was a stupid idea, because they never could have won six straight games against good competition, but yes, I think all five of those starters will get drafted.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

HELL YEAH!!!! Micah Downs, potentially the #1 SG in the class of '05, just committed to Kansas on the local radio. 6'8" w/ 83" wingspan, a wicked first step, great bounce, good range and has been compared to a more athletic version of Mike Dunleavy.

Hells yeah. Sorry, had to get that out.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> To be honest, I think it's a bit of an indictment on Lute. He didn't seem to have good command of the team. Plus, they were a very young team, and they played like it. They had no idea how to win at the end of games against good teams.
> ...


if they win their first game, they are unbeatable, or so it seems. but they almost always get knocked out early. I remember being impressed by Iggy in the tournament game. He was just different. he clearly was the point on that team, even though he was the 3. I havent seen too many point forwards in the college game over the last 10 years. Elliott and Hill are the only 2 that come to mind


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> To be honest, I think it's a bit of an indictment on Lute. He didn't seem to have good command of the team. Plus, they were a very young team, and they played like it. They had no idea how to win at the end of games against good teams.
> ...


Bingo.

I think Lute has lost a step himself in each of the past several years. But that's just me.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Err....
> ...


But Mike, I don't think most people think Iggy is ready. But I am certainly impressed with his potential down the road. I certainly don't have any doubt he'll be able to rebound, pass well for his position, finish with extreme authority, and play some inconsistent but promising D next year.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> IIRC, whats this an abbreviation for?


If I remember correctly.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> if they win their first game, they are unbeatable, or so it seems. but they almost always get knocked out early. I remember being impressed by Iggy in the tournament game. He was just different. he clearly was the point on that team, even though he was the 3. I havent seen too many point forwards in the college game over the last 10 years. Elliott and Hill are the only 2 that come to mind


Iggy finally looked like the team leader, the guy that was going to bring them back, in the tournament game. He had that "I'm going to take over" attitude in the fourth quarter, and were it not for his last shot rimming out, he would have brought them all the way back. If I would have seem more of that offensive killer instinct from him all season, I'd be more sure of him. I also wish he were just a little taller so he could be a true small forward.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Lute's got 4 more years max at Arizona.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Iggy finally looked like the team leader, the guy that was going to bring them back, in the tournament game. He had that "I'm going to take over" attitude in the fourth quarter, and were it not for his last shot rimming out, he would have brought them all the way back. If I would have seem more of that offensive killer instinct from him all season, I'd be more sure of him. I also wish he were just a little taller so he could be a true small forward.


You would have had he been playing his true position all season.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Err....
> ...


Give me an Fin break Mike. This is a kids livihood we are talking about. If he doesnt think Iggy is ready, he ought to keep his mouth shut. In fact, he is volunteering this info to anyone within earshot. And why do I care? I am an ASU alum. But I never bought into any rivalry. Its not my thing. But this type of behavior is Bull ****. And frankly, it disappoints me that you would spin it this way. He is costing this kid millions because he is upset that he is leaving. Really classy


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Hassan Adams was the one who had to play PF because Ebi left early for the pros.

However, it's Olsen's own fault for recruiting guys who he knew were looking at the NBA first, school second. He's gotten burned because he has recruited way too many of those kinds of guys at the same time. 

If Hassan Adams had the opportunity to play SG (like what he should be) this year, he might be in this draft as well. If Fred Jones can go in the first round, so can he.

He's really one of the best athletes I have seen on the college level.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Hassan Adams was the one who had to play PF because Ebi left early for the pros.
> 
> However, it's Olsen's own fault for recruiting guys who he knew were looking at the NBA first, school second. He's gotten burned because he has recruited way too many of those kinds of guys at the same time.
> ...


In several games I watched, Hassan was matched up against the small forward. Unless I'm losing my mind, which is entirely possible.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> In several games I watched, Hassan was matched up against the small forward. Unless I'm losing my mind, which is entirely possible.


Obviously when subs happened, but against Texas and Seton Hall (in the NCAA's), Adams was on the PF's of both teams. Most teams play SF's at PF anyway.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Hassan Adams was the one who had to play PF because Ebi left early for the pros.
> 
> However, it's Olsen's own fault for recruiting guys who he knew were looking at the NBA first, school second. He's gotten burned because he has recruited way too many of those kinds of guys at the same time.
> ...


damn I forgot Ebi was going there. That hurts. I still think Ebi, given sometime, will absolutely be a very good pro. Even a great one in the right situation


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

I'll take Andre Over Luke any day of the week


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Obviously when subs happened, but against Texas and Seton Hall (in the NCAA's), Adams was on the PF's of both teams. Most teams play SF's at PF anyway.


And the amazing this was he'd often end up outrebounding the opposing PF because he's got friggin' springs from hell.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> And the amazing this was he'd often end up outrebounding the opposing PF because he's got friggin' springs from hell.


Both Adams and Iguodala are going to be great rebounders for their size in the NBA. They both have the hops and the knack for the ball.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

isnt iggy from central illinois? Pax probably loves him for this 

No in all seriousness, that would raise a red flag to me. I am not a fan of local kids playing at home. Sure, there are some examples where it works (lebron) and where it doesnt work (Curry). Even Wade said recently that he thinks the distraction of being at home wouldnt have allowed him to be as effective with the Bulls. I know Iggy is from Springfield (i believe) so its not exactly next door, but still, it worries me. Id rather have a kid from iran (joke intended about the early entry candidate from there) then chicago, all things equal, cause you know the kid from Iran isnt going to have to worry about tickets, and posses, and family, etc. He has one thing on his mind, Ball. And I think we can see that this has affected Curry


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## Middy (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Give me an Fin break Mike. This is a kids livihood we are talking about. If he doesnt think Iggy is ready, he ought to keep his mouth shut. In fact, he is volunteering this info to anyone within earshot. And why do I care? I am an ASU alum. But I never bought into any rivalry. Its not my thing. But this type of behavior is Bull ****. And frankly, it disappoints me that you would spin it this way. He is costing this kid millions because he is upset that he is leaving. Really classy


rlucas, if Iggy was actually ready and Lute OlsOn is simply trying to get him to come back, why did he give Andre until Easter to make up his mind on entering the draft? Did this Happen with Richard Jefferson? Gilbert Arenas? Mike Bibby? No, it didnt.

The truth is Iggy is NOT NBA-ready. But he has only been playing Varsity ball or higher for 4 years, so the sky is truly the limit. Everything Lute said was true. Coach K trying to talk Livingston out of a TOP 5 pick is much worse than Lute saying Iggy is not ready when he clearly is not.

And about Olson being classless? Give me an instance of this and ill concede this point to you. Before you bring up the scoreboard incident, how would you like it if the CLASSLESS ASU fans started chanting about your dead wife? And throwing coins/food at the players? You wanna talk about class? Jesus christ some people just have no clue.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Middy</b>!
> 
> 
> rlucas, if Iggy was actually ready and Lute OlsOn is simply trying to get him to come back, why did he give Andre until Easter to make up his mind on entering the draft? Did this Happen with Richard Jefferson? Gilbert Arenas? Mike Bibby? No, it didnt.
> ...


I dont know about a scoreboard instance. And I dont know about ASU fans saying anything. If they did, they should all go to jail. What I do know is this

Lute Olson is telling anyone within earshot that this kid isnt ready. Why would he do that? Is anyone really ready in this draft? I mean, he is as ready as say Luol Deng but is Coach K out there blasting Deng every chance he gets? What Lute is doing is talking this kids stock down with the hope that he would come back. Its selfish, and its classless. He cost a young man, a young man who GAVE HIM (unlike livingston with coach k) 2 years of good basketball, millions of dollars for his beloved program. If anyone here doesnt have a clue, its you.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

MikeDC, you sure like to defend the coaches...

I posted when Coach K was trying to talk crap about Livingston, and you basically said the same things in regards to what Lute has done with Iggy...


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

what happened to the old adage, if you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything at all? In the Livingston case, Coach K is trying to get him to go back to Duke. I think its not a very cool thing to do. I havent heard coach K taking any shots at Deng however. But the Lute case is worse. He is actually volunteering info, meaning he literally is going out of his way, to tell the world this kid isnt ready. And this kid gave him 2 years. And the thanks he get is this? about 6 weeks ago Iggy was a top 6 pick. Now, combining this with some workout issues with Jackson, and he might be 15. Id say Lute helped cost this kid a couple of million bucks over 3 years. Your welcome Andre


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> what happened to the old adage, if you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything at all? In the Livingston case, Coach K is trying to get him to go back to Duke. I think its not a very cool thing to do. I havent heard coach K taking any shots at Deng however. But the Lute case is worse. He is actually volunteering info, meaning he literally is going out of his way, to tell the world this kid isnt ready. And this kid gave him 2 years. And the thanks he get is this? about 6 weeks ago Iggy was a top 6 pick. Now, combining this with some workout issues with Jackson, and he might be 15. Id say Lute helped cost this kid a couple of million bucks over 3 years. Your welcome Andre


Nothing Lute says affects how Andre is sucking in workouts. You think Lute's really spending valuable recruiting time convincing scouts and GMs that Iggy isn't ready? Like I said, Iggy is doing this to himself. He's playing in the workouts, not Lute.

I wonder how much more money Andre might get if he were to declare next year, go higher in the lottery and subsequently get a considerably larger contract.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I know this topic is a little worn, but DMD hooked me on Zona this year, and I loved watching them play this season despite their lackluster record.

Their problem this season, is that they just never had defined roles. They reminded so much of the clippers of years past where they are just over-burdend with talent, but none of the players know how to contribute to a victory. I thought Iggy was the lone exception of a player on that team who made his teammates better. When he was on the floor good things just seemed to happen, although it was rarely him putting the ball in the hoop.

I side with DMD that I really am high on his tournament performance. For the first time all season, he was looked to for the scoring load in the clutch. While he came up short, you can see real potential for growth. 

I've read a couple times in this thread that Iggy isn't ready for the pro's and I'm not sure that I agree. I think the Jefferson comparison is pretty good: he has a level of D and court awareness that will allow him to get minutes from day 1. He won't have to grow into his game on the bench. It's not that hes anything close to a finished product, but I see him being able to learn inside the lines, and in that way he is ready for the NBA.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> But Mike, I don't think most people think Iggy is ready. But I am certainly impressed with his potential down the road. I certainly don't have any doubt he'll be able to rebound, pass well for his position, finish with extreme authority, and play some inconsistent but promising D next year.


Who are "most people"? They obviously aren't the same "most people" who are dropping him down draft boards.

Hey, I don't disagree that he looks like a good player for down the road, but his ability should be put in perspective. I think he'll be a nice player- look at other guys drafted around the middle of the 1st round... Des Mason, Q, Posey, Artest... that's not bad company although some are better than others of course. And to some degree, they were ok players out of the box, but obviously a lot less than what any of them are now. I think that's closer to what we're looking at in Iggy.

Does that make him "ready"? Maybe by today's standard, but as a practical perspective I don't think he comes in and lights things up.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

He has a really good attitude. Today he was on KXL blazer courtside radio show and he said "I just go in there and destroy people" When asked about his match up against Andre Iguoadala. He's a full 6'7" barefooted. He could turn out to be a great pick up !


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

rlucas,

Yes Andre Igoudala is from Springfield, Illinois (he was a teammate of Richard McBride - Illinois guard).


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Give me an Fin break Mike. This is a kids livihood we are talking about. If he doesnt think Iggy is ready, he ought to keep his mouth shut. In fact, he is volunteering this info to anyone within earshot.





> And why do I care? I am an ASU alum. But I never bought into any rivalry. Its not my thing.


Huh? Are these not quotes you made in this very thread.

UofA is my hated rivals. 

i hate Lute. I went on a recruiting trip there out of HS. And it was such a waste of my time.  




> But this type of behavior is Bull ****. And frankly, it disappoints me that you would spin it this way. He is costing this kid millions because he is upset that he is leaving. Really classy


OK, let's get this straight. You hate AU and seem to have some kind of personal animous towards Lute Olson. In your own words. I, on the other hand, could give a rat's ***.

Thus, I'm not sure how a word like "spin" is coming at me in such a context. I'm stating my opinion. If you don't like it, that's fine, but I don't see any strong emotions at play prejudicing my observations. You, on the other hand, have openly stated yours. Now, it might be that your emotions here line up with the truth, or that you see the truth in spite of your emotions, but I think in this case your stated opinions don't do much service to the factual point you're trying to make.

I'm also not seeing the certain moral clarity that you see. I say, a coach doesn't have any obligation to lie to cover a guy's ***. And don't give me the "just dont' say anything" line, because people aren't fools; if he won't give an honest opinion, that's just as damning as anything else. If that guy can play, he'll play well and he'll make millions. However, I don't think it's certain to happen overnight or at all.

Being classy doesn't mean scheming to help your friends and associates if they don't deserve your help. Classy is being honest and telling the truth to yourself and others. That's a pretty simple concept, and it's easy to see the ramifications for dishonesty.

In the grand scheme of things, it's a pretty big copout to say Olsen should lie or not tell the truth to protect a given player's salary. It's actually a pretty simplistic argument that ignores some obvious facts. OK, so Olsen lies and because of it Iggy goes 8 spots higher in the draft. So what? 

1. That means a couple other guys must be drafted lower than they should be. How come you're not shedding any tears for them? Even worse, they're losing money because some GM came away with a falsely rosey picture of a kid who might be a good player but also might not be ready.

2. That leaves open the possibility that other kids from AU get burned. If Iggy flops then Olsen's credibility takes a dive and maybe a couple years down the road, when he goes to bat for a kid who really does deserve to be gone to bat for, he's taken less seriously. Then that kid loses millions while Iggy gets millions and produces jack ****.

And of course, all of this is just ignoring the facts at hand. Olsen (and K at Duke for that matter) have both had any number of kids go pro early who they've praised profusely. Thus, to brand them as somehow classless for not praising a particular kid (but instead saying he's not ready) is pretty inconsistent with the facts. Looking at the entirety of these guys' records, I see mostly praise and occasional criticisms of guys coming out early. That's reality for you. Maybe it's not idealized the way you want it to be, maybe it doesn't praise the people you want to be praised, but it appears to reflect honest appraisals rather than consistent gladhanding or consistent trashing of players for opposite but equally deviant and dishonest purposes.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Mike. I dont care for Lute. He invited me for a recruiting trip in 1990 that he acted in a not very professional matter

I believe my post about UofA being my hated rival was intended as a joke. I dont have a rivalry with them. They are supposed to be, cause i went to ASU, but i was too busy earning a degree to get mixed up in it.

Should a coach lie? No. Should a coach go out of his way to talk a player down? No. Thats not classy. And he cost that kid Millions. What if I told everyone on this board you didnt know anything about economics, even though not one person asked me for my opinion on your ability to understand economics, AND that cost you your job? How would you feel about that?

Here is a conversation I had with a scout earlier today on the subject. Someone we all know

?: and I owe you an apology
RLucas4257: good to hear
?: you were 1000% right about Olsen
RLucas4257: why?
?: it's true
?: and then some
?: he is telling people that he is a 2nd rounder
RLucas4257: really? he was at a golf thing with Ike Austin recently. Dont ask me how those 2 hooked up. He told Ike, without asking, that Iggy was nowhere near being ready
?: apparently a lot of people have lost a lot of respect for Lute after this
?: and people have no shame talking about it
?: guy is a scumbag
?: he even called his parents!
?: to tell them that
?: and you know how much respect scouts have for lute's opinion
?: the guy is a legend in college basketball
RLucas4257: Its one thing if someone actually asked him, but he is just volunteering this **** no questions asked

So you can applaud him all you want and say rlucas is bashing him for some ulterior reason that frankly I dont have. But here is a respected scout who likes Lute who thinks this has gotten too far. Again, if someone bashed you without any provocation, I am sure you wouldnt be thrilled. particularly if someone said you were a bad economist, when most projected you as one of the best.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> So you can applaud him all you want and say rlucas is bashing him for some ulterior reason that frankly I dont have. But here is a respected scout who likes Lute who thinks this has gotten too far. Again, if someone bashed you without any provocation, I am sure you wouldnt be thrilled. particularly if someone said you were a bad economist, when most projected you as one of the best.


Well, ultimately I'm pretty confident that if I'm a good economist, a particular guy bashing me would piss me off, but I also think that if I'm truly one of the best it won't matter a whole lot. Likewise, if you told everyone on the board that I didn't know anything about economics, it would be a foolish and irrational action on your part. I may not be a nobel prize winner or anything, but I'm fairly confident in my ability to demonstrate knowledge of economics 

And that's really the whole point. If you said that, and then I call your bluff, it's your reputation, not mine that suffers. Thus, it's pretty foolish to do so. Since I don't take you for a fool, I don't assume you would do something foolish. Similarly, if Olsen is out spreading lies about Iggy, and they're shown to be demonstrably false, Olsen's reputation will be hammered. As a general assumption, I go under the premise that people don't willingly slam their nuts in a drawer.

To be at all rational, you'd have to make the case that Olson thinks Iggy is so crucial that he's willing to take that kind of risk when he hasn't taken that kind of risk to stop guys like RJeff or Mike Bibby from coming out. That doesn't seem to jell with the facts I see. Iggy looks like a nice player, but I'd take either of those guys before I'd take Iggy.

Anyway, the whole point of the argument I thought you were making was that this could cost Iggy millions. If scouts are truly wise to Olsen's act as you suggest, then it's as I suggested; it won't matter and Iggy will get drafted high.

However, I think it does matter. As a piece of information, your conclusion just seems to turn the weight of the evidence on its head.

OK, so at worst we have a coach who's going out of his way to say a player isn't ready. 

Two interpretations of this fact can arise. One is that the coach is a lying, scheming sone of a ***** who really thinks the guy is a pretty good player. The second is that he really thinks the guy is blowing it by leaving early.

Now, we have a bunch of background facts:
* Lute was highly respected.
* Lute has, in the past, not complained like this when much better young prospects left early
* Scouts seem to be forming negative opinions of Iggy's readiness on their own
* Iggy's workouts have sent him tumbling down the draft board according to several reports.

My point is, consider the first fact and its two interpretations in light of those supporting facts. Your interpretation seems to be directly at odds with ALL of those independently observed facts. My interpretation appears to be entirely consistent with ALL of them.

Of course, you could be right, but I'll continue to hold a position that seems to be supported by all the evidence I have rather than one that conflicts with all the evidence I have.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Wow.

Those last two posts from MikeDC were so profoundly well-worded, eloquent, and thought out, I'm not even sure what to say. 

I mean, damn, I'm not even sure how anyone could argue with that.

I pay homage to the godfather.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, ultimately I'm pretty confident that if I'm a good economist, a particular guy bashing me would piss me off, but I also think that if I'm truly one of the best it won't matter a whole lot. Likewise, if you told everyone on the board that I didn't know anything about economics, it would be a foolish and irrational action on your part. I may not be a nobel prize winner or anything, but I'm fairly confident in my ability to demonstrate knowledge of economics
> ...


Well said.

Rlucas has information and a perspective that we are missing.. there's obviously some missing piece of information. Rlucas is a reasonable person and it's not totally reasonable for someone to get riled up simply because he's saying that a player ought to return to school. Olsen is obviously not trying to ruin the kid's career, nor is he forcing the issue with getting him back to Arizona (obviously that's on his agenda, though).

So I think that there's something more personal going on there, between rlucas and Lute, and that's fine. No big deal, I'll take it at face value. Maybe he's right, but I'll never know.

As for Iggy v. Luke:

Luke Jackson is a seriously scrappy player. Anyone who has watched him play must admit that though he does some fantastic things, part of what makes it look so fantastic is the fact that it seems so unlikely. I think Luke looks a LOT like Wally Szczerbiak, who I thought would completely bomb in the NBA because the guy would just barrel down the lane and make a strange shot, and because otherwise he looked only like a rangy shooter.

I digress. Luke is a really scrappy player, and though he's got quickness to get to the hoop and score, it's not unlike watching JYD drive... he's got the skills to do it, but it just doesn't look polished.

Now, there's nothing wrong with scrappy. I'd even say that Kidd looks scrappy considering his status. Gary Payton always looked polished, in comparison. But for a rookie, scrappy might not translate into effectiveness at the NBA level. 

Andre, on the other hand, DOES look more polished. Yes, he does. Is he raw in a zillion areas? Sure. But in the areas that he's good (ball handling, shooting, rebounding), he makes it look good. 

Luke got it done a lot more at the college level because scrappers will make things happen. And if you can shoot (from the college arc, not the pro one), then the points can add up quickly.

I think the high turnover numbers are a sign of Luke's scrappyness. He plays with a ton of energy, but turns the ball over often. And I agree that being the emphasis on the team makes a difference. Iggy, like Deng, was not the leader of that team or even the first option on either offense or defense.

The bottom line: who knows? If Luke's scrappy but effective play remains scrappy or even gets refined, he might be the better player in the long run. But Iggy definitely has more raw talent, and if that develops, I can see a lot more happening for him in the future.

If I'm Pax, and I'm forced to pick, I think I actually take Luke Jackson. I believe Andre will be more talented in the long run, but I think Luke can be a Matt Harpring type of player much sooner than Andre will become a Shawn Marion type, and there's a lot more certainty in Luke being more like Harpring than Andre being more like Matrix.

HOWEVER, if I'm Pat Riley or Joe Dumars or Mark Cuban, I take Iguodala. If he's playing on a winning team with great players, Iguodala will definitely have a chance at being a superb SF in the league, and there's no rush to make it happen, either.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> Olsen is obviously not trying to ruin the kid's career, nor is he forcing the issue with getting him back to Arizona (obviously that's on his agenda, though).


I'm kind of confused...

You say he's not trying to ruin the kid's career, but obviously it's his agenda to get him back to Zona?

That doesn't make sense...

Obviously Olson is contributing to his draft status dropping, ultimately I think the workouts speak louder, but if a coach like Olson is telling everyone possible the kid isn't ready for the NBA, they're going to take that into consideration.

The kid has always been touted as a lotto pick, so for Olson to broadcast that this kid is not ready, it's clear the motive is to get this guy back in school or affect his draft status.

This is not a Marcus Taylor or William Avery or someone who is clearly making a mistake, ultimately he might drop lower than what was predicted, but the fact he has been predicted so high doesn't warrant his coach to say he shouldn't be up there.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm kind of confused...
> ...


It basically makes sense if we change one assumption:

Lute Olsen isn't lying.

What if Andre Iguodala IS NOT ready for the NBA? Do you remember when Jason Gardner tried to leave early but had the worst showing in Chicago that a point guard could possibly have? 

The scouts say what the scouts say. Scouts have OBVIOUSLY made mistakes. Someone obviously scouted Kirk Haston wrong. Same with Vonteego Cummings, Jeryl Sasser, Mateen Cleaves. Dalibor Bagaric.

Scouts obviously made mistakes in other ways too. Marquis Daniels? Yeah. Carlos Boozer? Rashard Lewis? Many others.

What if Lute Olsen is just plain RIGHT? Then do you think he's trying to ruin Andre's career....

... or is he trying to rescue it?


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> what happened to the old adage, if you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything at all? In the Livingston case, Coach K is trying to get him to go back to Duke. I think its not a very cool thing to do. I havent heard coach K taking any shots at Deng however. But the Lute case is worse. He is actually volunteering info, meaning he literally is going out of his way, to tell the world this kid isnt ready. And this kid gave him 2 years. And the thanks he get is this? about 6 weeks ago Iggy was a top 6 pick. Now, combining this with some workout issues with Jackson, and he might be 15. Id say Lute helped cost this kid a couple of million bucks over 3 years. Your welcome Andre


I agree,not a very nice thing to do!
As if he'll return to Arizona...


About the Q Iggy or Jackson - I'd Pick Iggy rlucas.
His upside is huge and as I wrote before if the thing was measurable I think Iggy has got a chance of being the BEST athlete in the league.
The only thing he don't have is outside shooting and it is fixable (Redd and PP were regaurded inconsistent draft day).

I like Jackson and his allaround good game - I just like Iggy more.

One other thing about Jackson - because he was the ONLY threat Oregon had he always had the best opposing defender in front of him - usually a smaller guy he could shoot over - but Many many times he dribbled around the much quicker defenders , he just knows how to find the tiny space to score.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> 
> 
> It basically makes sense if we change one assumption:
> ...


Of course, he could be wrong and still not be lying 

Getting back to Jackson vs. Iggy, this is a case where I'm looking forward to seeing their workout numbers. It's not that I put all my trust in such things, but you get such vastly differing accounts of a player's athleticism by watching a game and even talking to a couple people who have watched the same game that it's nice to have some semi-objective numbers to put things in perspective. In this case, a poor or very poor showing by either of those guys would have more weight than usual in my book.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm kind of confused...
> ...


But the paradox is this: since Lute's comments were so clearly injurious to Andre's draft status, how could he ever go back and play for that guy? There's no way he would ever go back at this point.

So it seems to me that the motive couldn't be to have him go back to Arizona. From a complete outsider's perspective, it looks like Lute has some bone to pick with Iggy, and he's just airing his dirty laundry.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Lute Olson an *******?  

Iggy against Luke Jackson is no comparison. Almost sure lottery pick vs probable first round pick.

Iggy is almost the complete package just lacking a better jumpshot. He would put up incredible numbers if he played a 1 man game in college.

He reminds me of Michael Finley as a rookie with much better passing and even more athleticism.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Lute Olson an *******?
> 
> Iggy against Luke Jackson is no comparison. Almost sure lottery pick vs probable first round pick.
> ...


You know, an "almost" sure lottery pick = borderline lottery.

"Probable" first rounder = picked 20-30

That's really not a "no comparison", by your own measure. *edited* It's only like 8 spots apart. Qyntel Woods, Maciej Lampe, and many others in recent history have shown us that 20 spots is not too far to fall. Dahntay Jones, Troy Bell, Fred Jones, etc. have taught us that 20 spots is not too far to jump.

More importantly, we just don't know how good Luke Jackson is, and to some extent, we don't really know how good Iggy is either.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Lute Olson an *******?
> 
> Iggy against Luke Jackson is no comparison. Almost sure lottery pick vs probable first round pick.
> ...


Yay it's BigAmare...

Anyway, the probable first rounder just smoked the sure lottery pick this week in workouts...


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Yay it's BigAmare...
> ...


Umm yeah what workouts would that be?

I am pretty sure Iguodala hasn't worked out for any team right now.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, ultimately I'm pretty confident that if I'm a good economist, a particular guy bashing me would piss me off, but I also think that if I'm truly one of the best it won't matter a whole lot. Likewise, if you told everyone on the board that I didn't know anything about economics, it would be a foolish and irrational action on your part. I may not be a nobel prize winner or anything, but I'm fairly confident in my ability to demonstrate knowledge of economics
> ...


Barry Bonds couldn't have hit it any further.

100% agreed.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

From Mikes post

"it would be a foolish and irrational action on your part"

So If I were to do that, it would be foolish and irrational but if Lute does it, then he is a quality guy looking for the best interest of a kid who allows him to keep his job? And Lute is a good, respectable guy? arent you contradicting yourself here? 

And remember, no one is asking for his opinion. He is going out of his way to tell everyone that a kid who bled red and blue is a "second rounder"

And people applaud this behavior? Give me a break


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> But the paradox is this: since Lute's comments were so clearly injurious to Andre's draft status, how could he ever go back and play for that guy? There's no way he would ever go back at this point.
> ...


Hasn't Iguodala signed with an agent, so he can't even go back to college? If that's the case, then what Lute is doing doesn't seem good.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> Hasn't Iguodala signed with an agent, so he can't even go back to college? If that's the case, then what Lute is doing doesn't seem good.


Looks like he hasn't signed with an agent just yet, as of yesterday anyway.

"Iguodala (6-6, 207 pounds) opted not to return for his final two seasons at Arizona and will sign with an agent, ruling out any potential return. The swingman set a new school record with three triple-doubles last season and became the first player in school history to lead the team in rebounds, assists and steals in the same season."

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/7197463


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Looks like he hasn't signed with an agent just yet, as of yesterday anyway.
> ...


Thanks DMD. For some reason I'd thought he'd signed with on agent.

Well I don't really see why Iguodala would go back to Arizona with what Lute is saying about him. Lute may not be going about it the right way if he wants him back.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> From Mikes post
> 
> "it would be a foolish and irrational action on your part"
> ...


Again, if Lute Olsen is RIGHT, then maybe he's trying to RESCUE his career, not ruin it.

I LIKE Iggy and I think he's got great tools. But one of the most respected college coaches in the game that has championships as his credibility and very good NBA players to back him up (Bibby, RJeff, Gilbert Arenas, Jason Terry, and others). 

If you can show me that Iggy is really ready for the NBA, and also show evidence that Lute is actually scheming, other than just "on the face", then please do. I think you have some kind of history with him, and you are openly anti-UA and their program, so fine. But from a non-biased standpoint, though there is a motivation for Olsen to keep Iggy at Arizona, you have to consider the fact that maybe Olsen is just plain right. Maybe Iggy just isn't ready for the NBA, and that jumping at this stage would really be detrimental to his entire career. Seriously.

Find hard evidence that Olsen is absolutely wrong, that Iggy is a guaranteed NBA player that would be worthy of a lottery pick and that there's no way he'd be a bust, and that another year in college wouldn't elevate his game, but otherwise, I can't agree or disagree either way. Again, rlucas, you have the history with UA so maybe you have some kind of dirt or insight that I don't. But from the face of it, the simple truth might be that Lute is right.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: Luke Jackson vs. Andre Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you see either game? I watched both and you could at least put the full statlines out there for everyone.
> ...


This post defined this thread.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Like I stated earlier:

Jackson scored 15 points in the first half, 27 in the second half, including 12 in a row.

Iggy fouled out in 22 minutes trying to guard Jackson. Three fouls might have been "questionable" in one viewer's eyes, but I doubt all five were.

The game was hardly a blowout. Oregon was within 7 with 7:02 to play. Shakur, Stoudamire, Adams, Rodgers (because Iggy fouled out) and Frye all played starter (30+) minutes.

The fact remains, Luke Jackson hung 42 on Iggy. Twist it, turn it, deny it, shrug it off.....it's still a fact. Live with it.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Like I stated earlier:
> 
> Jackson scored 15 points in the first half, 27 in the second half, including 12 in a row.
> ...


turn it, twist it, deny it, Oregon lost by a combined 37 pts in 2 games. And Retro has the games on tape proving a "prevent defense" was being played


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## BengalDuck (Jun 19, 2004)

After reading this topic, I think it's pretty easy to see who actually watched Jackson play, and who claims they watched him, but are only lying.

For those who watched him, they would know about Ernie Kent's offense. How it relies on a PG. How it doesn't have a SG and a SF position, but instead, the wing positions.

They would know that Oregon runs the ball up court faster then maybe any team in the country, when they get the boards. Oregon had a problem getting the boards this year.

Those who watched Jackson and Oregon would also know that Aaron Brooks, a TRUE FRESHMAN (read: rookie mistakes) started at PG this year, and the former McDonald's All-American gets the ball up quicker then maybe any PG in the nation. He's faster up the court then any PG on the west coast in a long time.

Those who watched Oregon and Jackson would also know that Brooks broke his hand in the second game of the PAC-10 season, right as he was getting used to the offense. He had something like 16 points and 10 assists against Southern Cal (at USC), but broke his hand punching the basket against UCLA. 

Oregon was ahead by a few baskets before the injury. Oregon lost the game.

Oregon did NOT have a backup PG. Brandon Lincoln (Soph SG/Wing), James Davis (Senior SG/Wing), and Jackson himself played point. There was no pushing the ball up the court. There was no fast breaks. There was no nothing.

Basically, the offense stalled all season. Playing a team like Arizona would kill Oregon because of how athletic they were. Nobody could bring the ball up.

I don't have the exact numbers anymore, but Oregon averaged something like 10 more turnovers after losing Brooks.

Using a stat like TO's vs. steals for the Iggy-Jackson matchup is silly. The entire Oregon TEAM had a high number of TO's ALL SEASON, and that was just added onto whenever Oregon would play an athletic team such as Arizona or Washington.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BengalDuck</b>!
> After reading this topic, I think it's pretty easy to see who actually watched Jackson play, and who claims they watched him, but are only lying.
> 
> For those who watched him, they would know about Ernie Kent's offense. How it relies on a PG. How it doesn't have a SG and a SF position, but instead, the wing positions.
> ...


Excellent post. That said, watch out. Sound logic and actual game-watching experience like this will get you ridiculed around here by some.


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## onetenthlag (Jul 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Excellent post. That said, watch out. Sound logic and actual game-watching experience like this will get you ridiculed around here by some.



:laugh: so funny, and so true.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>onetenthlag</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> :laugh: so funny, and so true.


Why did you bump this thread!!!!!!


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## onetenthlag (Jul 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Why did you bump this thread!!!!!!


My bad. I didn't realize that it was so old.

Just a question though, is it really that rare for someone to add a post to an old thread? I had been reading this thread for days and just checked back with the site today after the weekend.

Anyway, if it really is a huge deal, I apologize.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>onetenthlag</b>!
> 
> 
> My bad. I didn't realize that it was so old.
> ...


No, it's not that the thread is old or not relevant anymore, it featured some particularly ugly longstanding arguements, IMO. No worries. I was just making an inside joke.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I kind of like the bump.

But that's just me.


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