# Kevin Love has 31 points, 31 REBOUNDS, 5 assists vs. Knicks



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Yes thats 23 points, 29 rebounds and 5 assists. BEAST!!!!

you didn't read that wrong, he has 29 rebounds....wow!


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

29 in 34 minutes...


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

For some reason I keep watching Knicks games. I honestly think its the quality of broadcast and the appearance of the arena that keep luring me in. This Amar'e at center thing they are trying isn't going to work.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

31 rebounds, 26pts


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

28 pts, 31 rebs, 5 assists.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

28 now... 2 more points!

Mike Beasley has been playing some serious ball.


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## Wade2Bosh (Mar 31, 2004)

When was the last 30/30 game? This is crazy.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Anybody still want to argue with me about Love being the best rebounder in the game?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Who doesn't win the rebounding title...weird no?

A 30/30 game is mighty impressive though


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Love/Beasley is becoming a great SF/PF combo.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Who doesn't win the rebounding title...weird no?
> 
> A 30/30 game is mighty impressive though


Hard to win a rebounding title when you average 28 minutes a game because your coach is a fool.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Anybody still want to argue with me about Love being the best rebounder in the game?


I said last summer that he would win the rebounding title last year. I'm not shocked at all. He's carrying the torch for White American basketball at the moment. Larry Bird must be weeping.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Finishes 31 pts, 31 rebs, 5 assists.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Adam said:


> I said last summer that he would win the rebounding title last year. I'm not shocked at all. He's carrying the torch for White American basketball at the moment. Larry Bird must be weeping.


Why would Bird be weeping? Bird should be beaming proud.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Why would Bird be weeping? Bird should be beaming proud.


Tears of joy.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

I thought 30-rebound games had gone extinct in this age. And he has 30+ points and five assists on top of it? Crazy stat line!


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Tonight Love had more rebounds than the Wizards did as a team in their game against the Rockets.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Whoa...I just did a stat search on basketball-reference and they didn't have a single game of another player having a 30/30.

That goes back to 1986. Whoa.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Adam said:


> Whoa...I just did a stat search on basketball-reference and they didn't have a single game of another player having a 30/30.


Do Wilt's 50/50's not count?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Weird, did you edit your post???


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Adam said:


> Whoa...I just did a stat search on basketball-reference and they didn't have a single game of another player having a 30/30.
> 
> That goes back to 1986. Whoa.


According to ESPN's ticker, it's the first since Moses in 1982.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Weird, did you edit your post???


Ya, I wanted to include that last line but I had to run the search again to get the exact date first.


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## Wade2Bosh (Mar 31, 2004)

Adam said:


> Whoa...I just did a stat search on basketball-reference and they didn't have a single game of another player having a 30/30.
> 
> That goes back to 1986. Whoa.


Just did the same. Most rebounds since Barkley's 33 in 1996.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Holy ****. Just amazing.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

Absurd.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

What's great about Love is that he is a skilled rebounder. He isn't some freakishly great athlete with long arms and some size. He just knows how to create space with his hips, and neutralize the opponent's athleticism. 

I'm not sold on his offensive game and he isn't good defensively, but one thing he does incredibly well on both ends is rebound. That can't be denied.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

historic game - fantastic - speechless


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Between Milsap giving Bosh 46 and Love's 31 rebounds largely over Amare the new PFs aren't looking too well.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> What's great about Love is that he is a skilled rebounder. He isn't some freakishly great athlete with long arms and some size. He just knows how to create space with his hips, and neutralize the opponent's athleticism.
> 
> I'm not sold on his offensive game and he isn't good defensively, but one thing he does incredibly well on both ends is rebound. That can't be denied.


He's got a very underrated offensive game. Mid-range jumper that is blossoming.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

hahaha. Jalen Rose giving Love absolutely no love during the halftime show right now. Its almost like Love didn't sign his kid an autograph or something.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

I think its about time I say I told you so, to everyone who said that Mayo was going to be a lot better and trading OJ for Love was a horrible decision for the Wolves. I had Love as the 3rd best player in that draft all along. Of course my 2nd best player was Derrick Rose and my best player was Beasley so I got that part wrong but Love is playing up to what I knew he could do. Talking about Beasley he is finally starting to get going as well the last few games since he came back from injury.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> hahaha. Jalen Rose giving Love absolutely no love during the halftime show right now. Its almost like Love didn't sign his kid an autograph or something.


I thought he gave him love. He said, "That's putting in work," and he sang to him a dozen times.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> He's got a very underrated offensive game. Mid-range jumper that is blossoming.


He has skills, but he has been very inefficient for a power forward so far in his career.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

SheriffKilla said:


> I think its about time I say I told you so, to everyone who said that Mayo was going to be a lot better and trading OJ for Love was a horrible decision for the Wolves. I had Love as the 3rd best player in that draft all along. Of course my 2nd best player was Derrick Rose and my best player was Beasley so I got that part wrong but Love is playing up to what I knew he could do. Talking about Beasley he is finally starting to get going as well the last few games since he came back from injury.


Congrats man. I've been saying the same thing for a couple years now too. I thought at UCLA he was an amazingly skilled big man and will be an All-Star level PF in the NBA. 

Some people are always going to hate on the guy though. Its just the way it is. He's the most skilled rebounder since Rodman and the best outlet passing big since Wes Unseld.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

All Love needs to do to garner respect is lead his to team .500 and the playoffs. That's what top PF's are expected to do. Rebounds be damned.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HKF said:


> All Love needs to do to garner respect is lead his to team .500 and the playoffs. That's what top PF's are expected to do. Rebounds be damned.


He has garbage around him though. Plug him into any playoff teams starting power forward position and he'll thrive just like those other 4's do. You can't blame the guy for being drafted into the worst franchise in basketball.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> All Love needs to do to garner respect is lead his to team .500 and the playoffs. That's what top PF's are expected to do. Rebounds be damned.


You say that as if they play Basketball like gymnastics now, with 1 on 1s counting towards the team total...it's up to Minnesota to meet him halfway.

That said he's never going to be an all-star, Boozer/Amare/Bosh type of guy. I just can't trust his offensive palette.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Beasley isn't garbage; everyone else is, though.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Dre™ said:


> You say that as if they play Basketball like gymnastics now, with 1 on 1s counting towards the team total...it's up to Minnesota to meet him halfway.
> 
> That said he's never going to be an all-star, Boozer/Amare/Bosh type of guy. I just can't trust his offensive palette.


So an All-star big man is under no expectations to make their team a playoff team? I respectfully disagree.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

HKF said:


> So an All-star big man is under no expectations to make their team a playoff team? I respectfully disagree.


He's not an All-Star big man...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Do you want to read that again and then PM me to delete your post?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HKF said:


> So an All-star big man is under no expectations to make their team a playoff team? I respectfully disagree.


Stoudemire, Garnett, Boozer, Duncan wouldn't make this Wolves team a playoff team. Can't fault Love for being in a horrible situation with a scrub team.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> Do you want to read that again and then PM me to delete your post?


:laugh:


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

The player who defends Kevin Love must be the worst defender in the histroy.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

I couldn't get 31 rebounds in 2k11 with the cpu sliders turned all the way down to 0


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Stoudemire, Garnett, Boozer, Duncan wouldn't make this Wolves team a playoff team. Can't fault Love for being in a horrible situation with a scrub team.


Prime Garnett? Prime Duncan? Don't forget Love is in his third year. Duncan and Garnett would easily do it in their third year.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Adam said:


> Prime Garnett? Prime Duncan? Don't forget Love is in his third year. Duncan and Garnett would easily do it in their third year.


How do we know? Those guys never had a scrubby roster around them when they were their 3rd year in the league. Comparing the roster of the Wolves now vs. the Spurs and Wolves roster of those guys 3rd year in the league and its not even close.


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## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

Kevin Love is a UCLA Bruin. Don'tchu forget it.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> How do we know? Those guys never had a scrubby roster around them when they were their 3rd year in the league. Comparing the roster of the Wolves now vs. the Spurs and Wolves roster of those guys 3rd year in the league and its not even close.


Also, Duncan and KG are greats. I don't think anybody's claiming that Love's on their level...

EDIT: In the event it's unclear, I am not arguing against zagsfan here. Just adding onto his point...


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> How do we know? Those guys never had a scrubby roster around them when they were their 3rd year in the league. Comparing the roster of the Wolves now vs. the Spurs and Wolves roster of those guys 3rd year in the league and its not even close.


Don't be ridiculous. Kevin Garnett is one of the five best power forwards to ever play this game. He would have carried this Wolves team to the playoffs in his third year.



King Joseus said:


> Also, Duncan and KG are greats. I don't think anybody's claiming that Love's on their level...


Well he did...hence my confusion.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Adam said:


> Well he did...hence my confusion.


I must have missed that.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> How do we know? Those guys never had a scrubby roster around them when they were their 3rd year in the league. Comparing the roster of the Wolves now vs. the Spurs and Wolves roster of those guys 3rd year in the league and its not even close.


It's amazing how u just completely dismiss Beasley, Wes Johnson, their starting PG who hasn't even played yet.. Scruby roster? KG played w/ Marbury, sure, but he also never played w/ a wing of Beasley's calibre. Not until he went to Boston. 

You're actin like Minny is baron of talent rite now, when anyone who has followed this team kno's this is the most talent & balance this team has had in half a decade. This is not a bottom 5 team, not when Flynn gets back. So quit sayin that,lol


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## Noyze (Oct 7, 2010)

Wow, amazing job. What is this, NBA Live 98?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Blu said:


> It's amazing how u just completely dismiss Beasley, Wes Johnson, their starting PG who hasn't even played yet.. Scruby roster? KG played w/ Marbury, sure, but he also never played w/ a wing of Beasley's calibre. Not until he went to Boston.
> 
> You're actin like Minny is baron of talent rite now, when anyone who has followed this team kno's this is the most talent & balance this team has had in half a decade. This is not a bottom 5 team, not when Flynn gets back. So quit sayin that,lol


A. We're calling Beasley a wing now?

B. I'd take prime Wally Szcerehfiefhi, Gugs, and Spree in that WCF year before Beasley this year and maybe ever. 

I don't know what that means in the full context of your discussion, this is just FWIW.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Adam said:


> Don't be ridiculous. Kevin Garnett is one of the five best power forwards to ever play this game. He would have carried this Wolves team to the playoffs in his third year.
> 
> 
> 
> Well he did...hence my confusion.


You sure he didn't have better talent around him? A lot better talent? Garnett's 3rd year in the league his Wolves made it as a 7th seed and he had Marbury and Gugliotta on his team, both AS level talents and a very solid 4th option in Anthony Peeler. I look at this Wolves roster and I laugh.

Love actually has a slightly better PER in his 3rd year in the league than Garnett did. I'm not saying that Love is better than Garnett was, but to fault Love because he plays on a horrible team, just isn't fair to him.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

King Joseus said:


> Also, Duncan and KG are greats. I don't think anybody's claiming that Love's on their level...
> 
> EDIT: In the event it's unclear, I am not arguing against zagsfan here. Just adding onto his point...


I'm not really saying Love is better. I'm just trying to point out that you cant bag on Love just because he was drafted into a ****ty situation. He's a helluva player.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blu said:


> It's amazing how u just completely dismiss Beasley, Wes Johnson, their starting PG who hasn't even played yet.. Scruby roster? KG played w/ Marbury, sure, but he also never played w/ a wing of Beasley's calibre. Not until he went to Boston.
> 
> You're actin like Minny is baron of talent rite now, when anyone who has followed this team kno's this is the most talent & balance this team has had in half a decade. This is not a bottom 5 team, not when Flynn gets back. So quit sayin that,lol


You're a few years younger than me, so I'll give you a pass. You must not remember Gugliotta and Sprewell. Both leaps and bounds better than Beasley, as pointed out earlier in this thread.

Dude, Wes Johnson looks like a decent prospect, but nobody's going to mistake him for a good player at this point. If Beasley can become an effective player night in and night out,Johnson lives up to his #3 draft selection and Johnny Flynn becomes an above average PG (hard to do these days) than Love might have a playoff caliber team around him. Until that happens, this Wolves roster is as scrubby as it gets in the NBA.

Love is a beast, but he sure as hell can't get a ****ty team into the playoffs by himself.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

The Knicks should be ashamed of themselves. There's no excuse for allowing Love and Beasley to go 70/40 on you (more or less).


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Dre™ said:


> A. We're calling Beasley a wing now?




Beasley was always a wing in the NBA. Its just that idiot in Miami who stuck him at PF behind Haslem that drove him crazy. Notice no mention of any emotional problems ? Playing time can sometimes be the best medicine. 

Why focus so much on what Love can't do ? You just focus on what he can do and work around the things he can't. He'll rebound, pass, set picks and make an occasional jumper. Most coaches would take that in a second. 

Rambis made the statement a day before the Laker game that no one had stepped up to earn anymore mins than they were getting. Then asked Magic to talk to the team before the game. Ever since then Beasley and Love stepped up. And Telfair's not too bad either. 

Haslem and Ben Wallace have just as many rings as Garnett. You don't have be a superstar to be a winner.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

That was a great game...I thought he was going to hit his shooting percentage.

You can't take away what he did though. Just remember what scott skiles did with assists in one game though. congrats to him.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> You're a few years younger than me, so I'll give you a pass. You must not remember Gugliotta and Sprewell. Both leaps and bounds better than Beasley, as pointed out earlier in this thread.
> 
> Dude, Wes Johnson looks like a decent prospect, but nobody's going to mistake him for a good player at this point. If Beasley can become an effective player night in and night out,Johnson lives up to his #3 draft selection and Johnny Flynn becomes an above average PG (hard to do these days) than Love might have a playoff caliber team around him. Until that happens, this Wolves roster is as scrubby as it gets in the NBA.
> 
> Love is a beast, but he sure as hell can't get a ****ty team into the playoffs by himself.


A pass? :2ti:

I grew up on KG's wolves son... was a huge KG stan. Gugs was solid, but he is not clear cut better talent than Beas... I can say firmly that Beasley is better than old-ass Sprewell tho. Give him his 36mpg n we'll see. KG's wolves always had great D, and solid balance on offense. This yr team has the balance, but not the D. Thats the diff. 

You dont give anyone but Love credit, which is funny. Love has been on this team for 3 years, and yet done nothing. This year Beas and Wes Johnson come in putting up good #s, yet u call them scrubs? This team actually has potential to win .500 when Flynn gets back, because they have offensive balance. They just dont have post D which is why they wont get to the playoffs(and post D is largely on Love, specially if we want give him all the credit).


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Very impressive game from K-Love. The bottom line is he's on a poorly constructed team. Whether there are some talented players on the Wolves isn't the point, that isn't enough to win games in this league. They simply do not fit together. There are far too many young players on the roster. The backcourt is atrocious; good backcourt play is critical to win in the league these days. There are very few defensive-minded players on the roster, and the ones who do aren't organized well enough to make it work at a team level. 

Even a prime KG or prime Duncan -- two of the greatest PFs to ever play -- would have difficulty getting this roster to .500 if placed in Love's shoes. And as good as Love is, asking him to be a HOF-level PF at this stage is unrealistic. 

Give the guy his props. He's making the Wolves a better team. They just have a long ways to go and unfortunately their incompetent management will probably never get them there.


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

E.H. Munro said:


> The Knicks should be ashamed of themselves. There's no excuse for allowing Love and Beasley to go 70/40 on you (more or less).


That there is plain ridiculous. What a rough week it has been for the Knicks.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

LA68 said:


> Beasley was always a wing in the NBA. Its just that idiot in Miami who stuck him at PF behind Haslem that drove him crazy. Notice no mention of any emotional problems ? Playing time can sometimes be the best medicine.
> 
> Why focus so much on what Love can't do ? You just focus on what he can do and work around the things he can't. He'll rebound, pass, set picks and make an occasional jumper. Most coaches would take that in a second.
> 
> ...


Dude, Beasley was put as a SF in Miami and failed badly. He had no problem scoring, but he was giving up more points then he scored... which isn't a problem in Minnesota.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Exactly. If we're remembering that there are two sides of a basketball court, Beasley is more man without a country than a true wing player. He may take a lot of 17-20 footers and appear fairly nimble with the ball in his hand, but he can't defend any above average wing...or power forward for that matter. That's why I never liked him out of college anyway.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

E.H. Munro said:


> The Knicks should be ashamed of themselves. There's no excuse for allowing Love and Beasley to go 70/40 on you (more or less).


I watched the whole game on tv (my buddy's a big Knicks fan) and I was mystified by D'antoni's decision to keep an ineffectual Amare on Love and play a shooting guard(Chandler) at power forward while his team was choking the game away. Not to take anything away from Love, but the Knicks stayed super-small without a single good rebounder on the court and left their physical 7-footer on the bench. It made no sense at the time, and it cost them the game.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

First 30-30 game since Moses did it in Houston in 1982
First 30+ rebound game since barkley did it in Houston in 1996

CRAZY


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Adam said:


> Don't be ridiculous. Kevin Garnett is one of the five best power forwards to ever play this game. He would have carried this Wolves team to the playoffs in his third year.


Seriously? Remeber you are talking about the same "all time great" who was one game from the NBA finals, had one of the greatest seasons for a PF in NBA history, and was NBA MVP who couldnt even lead the same roster of guys to the playoffs the next year? That team was better than any team KG had in his first 5 years in the league. 

Ya ok. This is pretty much the same Wolves team that had the 2nd wrost record in the NBA last year.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Sprewell was phoning it in, Cassell was banged up, played 59 games, started 38 averaging 13 and 5, and they still won 44 games, missing the playoffs by 1 game. 

The "same roster" on paper only. Read that statement under my name.

EDIT: And about that finals year, they lost 4-2 largely Cassell in those WCFs, so there was no Game 7.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blu said:


> A pass? :2ti:
> 
> I grew up on KG's wolves son... was a huge KG stan. Gugs was solid, but he is not clear cut better talent than Beas... I can say firmly that Beasley is better than old-ass Sprewell tho. Give him his 36mpg n we'll see. KG's wolves always had great D, and solid balance on offense. This yr team has the balance, but not the D. Thats the diff.
> 
> You dont give anyone but Love credit, which is funny. Love has been on this team for 3 years, and yet done nothing. This year Beas and Wes Johnson come in putting up good #s, yet u call them scrubs? This team actually has potential to win .500 when Flynn gets back, because they have offensive balance. They just dont have post D which is why they wont get to the playoffs(and post D is largely on Love, specially if we want give him all the credit).


Gugliotta was an All-Star and averaged 20 and almost 10 rpg. Beasley is player who's put together a few good games this year, what 9 games in. Hardly a proven, legit player like Gugliotta was. Beasley was traded to Minnesota for peanuts for a reason, son. Even Sprewell at the tail end of his career was a more consistent all around player than Beasley.

I already admitted that Johnson looks like a good prospect, but that guys game still has plenty of holes in it. I can't believe people can even compare those rosters that KG played on with this one. There's a couple nice, young pieces, but damn that is a cluster **** of a roster.

I'm not giving Love any kind of "credit". I'm just saying he's a legit player and people should stop hating on him, because he plays on an extremely scrubby roster. The team doesn't even have an identity on offense. The GM drafts 3 PG's in one draft and claims he wants to run, while the coach wants to run his version of the triangle. 

That team is a mess and you can't blame Love for it.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> Congrats man. I've been saying the same thing for a couple years now too. I thought at UCLA he was an amazingly skilled big man and will be an All-Star level PF in the NBA.
> 
> Some people are always going to hate on the guy though. Its just the way it is. He's the most skilled rebounder since Rodman and the best outlet passing big since Wes Unseld.


Its like the two of you live in some fantasy world, fantastic rebounder but thats about all he is good for.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Its like the two of you live in some fantasy world, fantastic rebounder but thats about all he is good for.


You're right. He's not a great passing big man or anything...Shoot, he's the best outlet passing big man since Wes Unseld. Yet, he plays in a system that doesn't take advantage of it. Look at the guy's PER, then get back to me.

He's a career 45% FG shooter, not great for a PF. But, you have to take into account that he's never had a PG that can get him the ball on the low block. I can't believe my eyes when I see Love downlow with position calling for the rock. His guards don't know how to make entry passes and that team has virtually no high low game to get him easy looks, like most bigs get.

Funny you want to dog on Love, when he's putting together 30/30 games. Your boy Lopez is the guy who's game you should be dissecting. Thats a mess.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

The truth lies in the middle. He'll be considered as a borderline all-star and might sneak into one, but he's not going to be on a Stoudemire/Bosh level ever.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

HKF said:


> So an All-star big man is under no expectations to make their team a playoff team? I respectfully disagree.


Which star big man in place of Love could lead the Wolves to the playoffs?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Good grief! The guy is averaging 18 and nearly 15 boards in LESS than 30 minutes a game.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> You're right. *He's not a great passing big man or anything...Shoot, he's the best outlet passing big man since Wes Unseld.* Yet, he plays in a system that doesn't take advantage of it. Look at the guy's PER, then get back to me.
> 
> He's a career 45% FG shooter, not great for a PF. But, you have to take into account that he's never had a PG that can get him the ball on the low block. I can't believe my eyes when I see Love downlow with position calling for the rock. His guards don't know how to make entry passes and that team has virtually no high low game to get him easy looks, like most bigs get.
> 
> Funny you want to dog on Love, when he's putting together 30/30 games. Your boy Lopez is the guy who's game you should be dissecting. Thats a mess.


Have you heard of the following guys? Brad Miller, Chris Webber, Vlade Divac?

Lol how am I dogging Love when I started this thread, gave him numerous compliments on here...oh I get it, not saying anything but praises must mean I dont like him? Mr. Simpson, maybe you should step out of Springfield for a bit.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Have you heard of the following guys? Brad Miller, Chris Webber, Vlade Divac?
> 
> Lol how am I dogging Love when I started this thread, gave him numerous compliments on here...oh I get it, not saying anything but praises must mean I dont like him? Mr. Simpson, maybe you should step out of Springfield for a bit.


All those guys are better passes in a halfcourt set, yes. Outlet passing, no. I've watched the kid since he played at Lake Oswego High, his outlet passing is incredible. Nothing like it in the game today. He'll eventually play for a team that will utilize this skill.

I'm not saying he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I just find it hilarious when people in forums like this poo-poo at what he does in a game like he's just some overrated stat monger. 

I've already admitted in this thread that he's a defensive sieve. But, that shouldn't keep him outside the conversation of best PF's in the game right now. Look around the league, most starting 4's are atrocious defensively.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

This is like the Brandon Jennings thread last year, just not nearly as retarded.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Outlet passing is sooooo overrated....how many times in a game do you see anyone doing that? Rebounding guards like Kidd and Rondo rarely do it, neither do you see skilled big men passers like Odom and yes Brad Miller doing it. What good is having a skill that you can't put to use?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Outlet passing is sooooo overrated....how many times in a game do you see anyone doing that? Rebounding guards like Kidd and Rondo rarely do it, neither do you see skilled big men passers like Odom and yes Brad Miller doing it. What good is having a skill that you can't put to use?


Its a lost art. Watch games from the 80's or early 90's. Laimbeer, Kareem (during his washed up days), Rodman, McHale, Walton.

Here's a little video for ya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QxyUVm_IMU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3RZ6L1wPY

(not sure how to embed videos on this site)


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> Gugliotta was an All-Star and averaged 20 and almost 10 rpg. Beasley is player who's put together a few good games this year, what 9 games in. Hardly a proven, legit player like Gugliotta was. Beasley was traded to Minnesota for peanuts for a reason, son. Even Sprewell at the tail end of his career was a more consistent all around player than Beasley.
> 
> I already admitted that Johnson looks like a good prospect, but that guys game still has plenty of holes in it. I can't believe people can even compare those rosters that KG played on with this one. There's a couple nice, young pieces, but damn that is a cluster **** of a roster.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, so KG played with a wing slightly above Beasley's current level for his 1st 3 years... And then had to carry the like of Trent Hassell and Wally Szcerbiak most of the rest of his time? It's not like KG had eons of talent surrounding him @ all times like you seem to imply, for the majority of his career he had to carry bum teams into the playoffs. Love isn't capable of that, mainly because he is not a good anchor. He needs another guy to do that for him, which is why he does get that much respect rite now. He needs to become a more complete player so that he can help this team win(start winning, n good plyrs will want to come). 

...Minny did run, they actually had the 2nd fastest pace last yr behind GSW if u paid attention... They also had the worst defense in the league as well... I like Kevin Love, but you seem not to realize that he is part of the problem with the team as well as the solution. You're only looking at him from one angle. I agree that he should be getting 36+ mins a game, but lets not act like dude is the only good plyr on the team right now. Let's not be stupid. 



zagsfan20 said:


> You're right. He's not a great passing big man or anything...Shoot, he's the best outlet passing big man since Wes Unseld. Yet, he plays in a system that doesn't take advantage of it. Look at the guy's PER, then get back to me.
> 
> He's a career 45% FG shooter, not great for a PF. But, you have to take into account that he's never had a PG that can get him the ball on the low block. I can't believe my eyes when I see Love downlow with position calling for the rock. His guards don't know how to make entry passes and that team has virtually no high low game to get him easy looks, like most bigs get.
> 
> Funny you want to dog on Love, when he's putting together 30/30 games. Your boy Lopez is the guy who's game you should be dissecting. Thats a mess.


I thought he played in a variation of the triangle? So how can you think he plays in the triangle, but yet not in a system that takes advantage of passing? That's an incongruent theory. Let's just say he has good teammates, but there is a big whole in the middle and @ PG right now. Once Flynn gets back the PG position will get better, and next year Flynn/Rubio will be a nice backcourt. If only they had a post defender, they could be a serious team...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

To embed


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

would minnesota/miami do a bosh for love trade? the heat need a vaccuum cleaner at the 4.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blu said:


> Fair enough, so KG played with a wing slightly above Beasley's current level for his 1st 3 years... And then had to carry the like of Trent Hassell and Wally Szcerbiak most of the rest of his time? It's not like KG had eons of talent surrounding him @ all times like you seem to imply, for the majority of his career he had to carry bum teams into the playoffs. Love isn't capable of that, mainly because he is not a good anchor. He needs another guy to do that for him, which is why he does get that much respect rite now. He needs to become a more complete player so that he can help this team win(start winning, n good plyrs will want to come).
> 
> ...Minny did run, they actually had the 2nd fastest pace last yr behind GSW if u paid attention... They also had the worst defense in the league as well... I like Kevin Love, but you seem not to realize that he is part of the problem with the team as well as the solution. You're only looking at him from one angle. I agree that he should be getting 36+ mins a game, but lets not act like dude is the only good plyr on the team right now. Let's not be stupid.
> 
> ...


You aren't really bringing any point, so I've decided I'll just let this debate die. Beasley is a good talent, but not near the all around game that Gugs had.

I've never said that Love was as good an all around player as KG. My point is that Garnett in his prime wouldn't elevate this scrubby Minnesota team to a playoff team. I'm not even sure that Duncan in his prime would of. That roster is a jumbled mess.

I've never bought into the theory that a player must suck if his team isn't good. A team is only as good as the equal sum of its parts.

btw, Rubio has been horrible lately. He's regressed majorly, there's no way he helps this Wolves team.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

BenDengGo said:


> would minnesota/miami do a bosh for love trade? the heat need a vaccuum cleaner at the 4.


That does not make the Heat a better team


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> That does not make the Heat a better team


I think it does. It gives them a post presence.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Lol, whatever zagfan. KG probably took more bum teams to the playoffs than anyone this past decade, so i dont kno what you're point is.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Love is a post presence?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Love is a post presence?


Scoring in the paint isn't his forte, but thats only a part of being a post presence. I'm sure Amare would tell you he's a post presence. More than Bosh (the elbow chucker). 

Bosh is sort of a version of a hybrid 4. He just doesn't fit in with that offense.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blu said:


> Lol, whatever zagfan. KG probably took more bum teams to the playoffs than anyone this past decade, so i dont kno what you're point is.


Yet, none of those teams were as scrubby as this Minnesota team.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Aight, sure.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

We've already gone over this. Its not even debateable.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Bosh is a better player than Love. I dont see anything post about Love's game, he also takes a lot of jumpshots and doesn't particularly have an advanced post game. Bosh can beat bigs with his quickness into the lane, Love aint doing that.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> We've already gone over this. Its not even debateable.


no, the fact that you think Love is by himself is redic. he has help on the team, but he is aslo part of the problem. I have been following this Minny franchise for a decade... but whatever, blame whoever u want. clearly u have a biased agenda towards love when u came in here.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Zahedan overating a white guy from the northwest. Adam Morrison says hi.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Bosh is a better player than Love. I dont see anything post about Love's game, he also takes a lot of jumpshots and doesn't particularly have an advanced post game. Bosh can beat bigs with his quickness into the lane, Love aint doing that.


Bosh is a better overall player. Mainly, because of defense. But, Love is just as effective in low blocks as Bosh is. Bosh has been an elbow jump shooter all year so far (for most of his career really). Whats keeping him outside of the paint?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

BenDengGo said:


> would minnesota/miami do a bosh for love trade? the heat need a vaccuum cleaner at the 4.


Kevin Love does the exact same thing that Bosh does, give up points in the paint. So he doesn't really change their problems. The Heat need a defensive presence at the 1 and then a better defensive player than Bosh at the 4/5. They really would be better off dealing him for Varejão.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> Zahedan overating a white guy from the northwest. Adam Morrison says hi.


Zahedan? 

Lol, people always want to pull out the Morrison card from 5 years ago. Get over it bud. 

You're comparing a guy who just got a 30/30 to Morrison who was out of the league and I admitted I was wrong on. I was a senior in high school the final year Morrison was at Gonzaga, I'll admit, I bought into the hype machine. I'm not the first to be wrong about a prospect though.

MJ lost some money on that one.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blu said:


> no, the fact that you think Love is by himself is redic. he has help on the team, but he is aslo part of the problem. I have been following this Minny franchise for a decade... but whatever, blame whoever u want. clearly u have a biased agenda towards love when u came in here.


No they don't. Garnett had Marbury and Gugliotta. Love has an unproven Beasley and a mediocre rookie in Wes Johnson. Its not even comparable.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Yeah, he played with Marbury and Gugliata so what... That was a fraction of KG's career. You're ignoring the Hassel/Szczerbiak years, where he had to carry bums into the playoffs... But of course we dont want to talk about those yrs. Define unproven.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Kevin Love has some skills that are kind of throwback, and I think a lot of people overrate him because of that. I don't really see what makes him better than a Zach Randolph for example, on either end of the floor. Love is a superb rebounder, but take away his rebounding, and he may not even be in the league. Granted, his rebounding ability is truly special, his other abilities are pretty underwhelming.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blu said:


> Yeah, he played with Marbury and Gugliata so what... That was a fraction of KG's career. You're ignoring the Hassel/Szczerbiak years, where he had to carry bums into the playoffs... But of course we dont want to talk about those yrs. Define unproven.


Unproven is playing at high level for more than 10 games. Szczerbiak, Terrell Brandon, Cassell, Joe Smith, Bobby Jackson, Peeler and Sprewell were all are proven NBA talent that played next to Garnett.

Garnett's last 3 years in Minnesota he didn't make the playoffs. Mainly, because he has the same level of talent around him that Love does now.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Zahedan?
> 
> Lol, people always want to pull out the Morrison card from 5 years ago. Get over it bud.
> 
> ...


LOL, damn iphone trying to correct my spelling.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Kevin Love has some skills that are kind of throwback, and I think a lot of people overrate him because of that. *I don't really see what makes him better than a Zach Randolph for example, on either end of the floor.* Love is a superb rebounder, but take away his rebounding, and he may not even be in the league. Granted, his rebounding ability is truly special, his other abilities are pretty underwhelming.


Hmmm....He's not a black hole on offense. He has a Bball IQ. I'm a Blazers fan and had to endure years of Z-Bo's play. Don't make me re-live that. The guy is skilled offensively, but makes the most poor decisions and is slightly above Yinka Dare in creating for others.

People act like Love is compeletely inefficient offensively. The guy is a career 45% from the field.

There's a reason Z-Bo has played for 4 teams in 4 years.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

There's also a reason why he made the all star team last year


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Love could thrive in the right system, but he would definitely be playing off of others (3rd or 4th option). He has one great ability, which makes him a valuable roleplayer, because you can hide weaknesses of roleplayers. I think the power forward position would have to be really weak for him to ever be an all-star though.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

He is a rebounding specialist and he is a talent. But a PF shooting .45 is not acceptable with Jefferson gone and more defensice pressure on him its dropped to .4 this season. (to be fair they have played next to no games so far).

Love will be a great second/third option but he is not going to be the number one player on a team making a championship run.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> Unproven is playing at high level for more than 10 games. Szczerbiak, Terrell Brandon, Cassell, Joe Smith, Bobby Jackson, Peeler and Sprewell were all are proven NBA talent that played next to Garnett.
> 
> Garnett's last 3 years in Minnesota he didn't make the playoffs. Mainly, because he has the same level of talent around him that Love does now.


Like I said, what about the year when Wally Szcerbiak and Troy Hudson were the 2nd best players? That team still won 50 games... You can name drop all the random players you want, none of them were really perennial all-star type guys is the point... Maybe they had an appearance or two, but he never really had the same robin type player for more then 2 yrs in a row anyway. Core players around him were always in-&out. 

And since Beasley is unproven, what makes Love proven? Im not following your theory on this team right now... I dont see how Love has proven himself, in the light that he seems to have done in your book.. To me, if Beasley is unproven than so is love. But unproven isn't the word i would use to describe either. Maybe unestablished, but i think Minny has two guys with very high potential in those two... Add in Flynn & Wes, and u got are another two very capable role players. This isa 30 win team.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blu said:


> Like I said, what about the year when Wally Szcerbiak and Troy Hudson were the 2nd best players? That team still won 50 games... You can name drop all the random players you want, none of them were really perennial all-star type guys is the point... Maybe they had an appearance or two, but he never really had the same robin type player for more then 2 yrs in a row anyway. Core players around him were always in-&out.
> 
> And since Beasley is unproven, what makes Love proven? Im not following your theory on this team right now... I dont see how Love has proven himself, in the light that he seems to have done in your book.. To me, if Beasley is unproven than so is love. But unproven isn't the word i would use to describe either. Maybe unestablished, but i think Minny has two guys with very high potential in those two... Add in Flynn & Wes, and u got are another two very capable role players. *This isa 30 win team*.


I'll be sure to bump this thread in a couple months


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Be my guest. Once we get Flynn & Webster back, i like the potential.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Let's just ignore Bosh's salary. OTOH, November matters this much? Really?

The Wolves probably won't be good. But if they have complete health like the Thunder last year, there could be a 10-game or 15-game bump.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Love with a pedestrian 22 and 17 this afternoon.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Horford and Smith also had career nights... Like I said, he is part of the solution and the problem. You can't just give him all the credit and blame everyone else for the faults, is the lesson for you today. We also cannot blame all of the teams defensive faults on him and yank him for the entire 4th qtr, either. He needs to be better defensively, before we can put him up on a pedestal tho.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blu said:


> Horford and Smith also had career nights... Like I said, he is part of the solution and the problem. You can't just give him all the credit and blame everyone else for the faults, is the lesson for you today. We also cannot blame all of the teams defensive faults on him and yank him for the entire 4th qtr, either. He needs to be better defensively, before we can put him up on a pedestal tho.


Same can be said for PF's throughout the league. Its the position with the most average defenders.

I knew Smith was going to have a big game on Love tonight, thats a horrible matchup for Love.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You guys are fun

EDIT: Watching the Kings play and I think Cousins has a 20 - 25 type rebound game in him.


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

Love is the kind of player that is great for a good team and inconsequential on a bad team. He's a 3rd-ish option on offense, can stretch the floor here and there, and is a top 2-3 rebounder in the league. If you put him next to a big guy who can defend the rim and have a couple scorers ahead of him, he'd beast so hard that it'd make your head hurt.

On a trashy T-Wolves team, he's just going to put up inefficient gaudy numbers (See: Michael Beasley) for a losing team.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Beasley is actually pretty efficient for a SF... I dont see why Love needs to be inefficient for a PF, if we're accrediting him as the lone good guy amongst the pack of scrubs... If he was so good, he should be able to go out and get his at an efficient clip, regardless of who's around him. Fact is, he's not the best athlete nor does he have the best shot selection/focus right now. He is not the clear cut best player on his team, yet ppl have the nerve to say he has no help. It is amazing. Guy is talented in areas and can be really good, but he needs to be better. Just settle down and enjoy him for what he is rite now. A rebounder and cleaner-up man, with some other budding skills in progress.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> You guys are fun
> 
> EDIT: Watching the Kings play and I think Cousins has a 20 - 25 type rebound game in him.


Cousin's minutes have been dwindling quick as of late.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Cousin's minutes have been dwindling quick as of late.


It is amazing they are playing Dalembert over him. I'm guessing tough love won't work on Cousins either.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Coach trying to teach a lesson but might learn one of his own soon..it's a player's league.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Zei_Zao_LS said:


> Love is the kind of player that is great for a good team and inconsequential on a bad team. He's a 3rd-ish option on offense, can stretch the floor here and there, and is a top 2-3 rebounder in the league. If you put him next to a big guy who can defend the rim and have a couple scorers ahead of him, he'd beast so hard that it'd make your head hurt.
> 
> On a trashy T-Wolves team, he's just going to put up inefficient gaudy numbers (See: Michael Beasley) for a losing team.


20.5ppg on 48% shooting in 30 minutes is inefficient?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Wade County said:


> 20.5ppg on 48% shooting in 30 minutes is inefficient?


Not always that simple. You can look at the 3 turnovers a game and you can also think about the context of the shots he misses. I haven't seen a T'Wolves game, that percentage is fairly surprising, but in the past I've looked at Beasley more or less like a guy who'll stop at nothing to put a shot up, percentages be damned. That's not an efficient way of playing basketball if there are better options even 2 shot attempts out of 5.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Also, KLove's last 5:

20.0ppg
19.4rpg
2.2apg
35.6mpg
42% fg

Beasley's last 5:

26.8ppg
4.4rpg
2.2apg
1.6spg
35.0mpg
52%fg
36%3fg


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Beas is the TWolves offense right now though. The 3 turnovers per game I can understand because the ball is in his hands a lot. Hopefully he drops this down to around 2 for the year though, which is around what Carmelo is at - who I think Mike compares to.

He does take some illadvised shots, but so do most number 1 options on their respective teams.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Wade County said:


> Beas is the TWolves offense right now though. The 3 turnovers per game I can understand because the ball is in his hands a lot. Hopefully he drops this down to around 2 for the year though, which is around what Carmelo is at - who I think Mike compares to.
> 
> He does take some illadvised shots, but so do most number 1 options on their respective teams.


I guess all that is well good and true, but let's not throw number 1 option around like he deserves it or anything.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Maybe not, but he is out of neccessity. Only way he can show he deserves it is by putting the ball in the hole at a good clip.


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

What an epic performance by Kevin Love.

I also have a pretty good feeling that there will be plenty more career highs and NBA records set against the Amar'e Knicks....


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Dre™;6409176 said:


> Not always that simple. You can look at the 3 turnovers a game and you can also think about the context of the shots he misses. I haven't seen a T'Wolves game, that percentage is fairly surprising, but in the past I've looked at Beasley more or less like a guy who'll stop at nothing to put a shot up, percentages be damned. That's not an efficient way of playing basketball if there are better options even 2 shot attempts out of 5.


From the games I watched, KLove is more apt to force a bad, rushed shot than Beasley has been... I dont kno why Beasley gets a bad rap(actually i do kno why, but most of it has nothing to do with bball). 

Of course, both guys will need to take a fair # of shots for there team to be competitive, but Beasley is a more polished player. Any who has watched the team can attest, Beasley gets his shots w/in the offenes. I dont kno why Love gets the perception of this guy taking high-quality shots, while Beasley gets the opposite. Beasley is a team guy. A smoothe player. Love, he has nice skills but he doesn't play with the same smoothness all the time.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Blu said:


> From the games I watched, KLove is more apt to force a bad, rushed shot than Beasley has been... I dont kno why Beasley gets a bad rap(i actually i do kno why, but most of it has nothing to do with bball).
> 
> Of course, both guys will need to take a fair # of shots for there team to be competitive, but Beasley is a more polished player. Any who has watched the team can attest, Beasley gets his shots w/in the offenes. I dont kno why Love gets the perception of this guy taking high-quality shots, while Beasley gets the opposite. Beasley is a team guy. A smoothe player. Love, he has nice skills but he doesn't play with the same smoothness all the time.


Everyone against Love in this thread has said Love is inefficient and the people for him don't even deny that necessarily, so what are you really saying?

Beasley gets a bad rap because people have seen him for the two years before this 10 game run and know who he is.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Im saying that ur description was more apt of Love than of Beasley, based on the games i've seen at least. A guy shooting just to 'get his', without necessarily gaining composure or scanning the floor 1st. Obviously they are the two most skilled offensive players on there team, so they need to shoot, but from a guy who has followed this team ur description of Beasley is funny. He plays more composed than Love on offense.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

You act like you're some historian who has years of experience with this team. It's been 11 games and the Wolves are 3-8. Of course Beasley's going to be the primary option. 

And I already said I haven't seen a Wolves game, I'm basing my stance off what I've seen from Beasly in the past. Whatever he's doing doesn't yet erase 2 seasons of what Beasley's shownhimself to be, and that's all I'm saying.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Minny was my favorite team up until '07 when I moved to Orlando(and KG left the team), so I would say i do have history w/ the team. And why do u only look @ Beas history, w/o looking at Love's? What has he done to enact winning? Yes, Wolves are 3-8, but my only beef on here was dude acting like Love was doing all the heavy lifting. Ppl want to paint Beas out like some kind of detriment, or selfish player, which is kind of funny. It's not really an accurate assessment at all. I always like Beas and was very pumped when we got him. I understand the perceptions of him, but alot of them are not really accurate. This guy can play a little bit. Im just tryna put credit where credit is due. Both Love and Beasley are important for this team, but let's not make stuff up.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Being a fan of the 07 Wolves has nothing to do with what the team has been the past two years. 

And like I said again, I'm not supporting Love in saying who I think Beasley is, but 10 games is not going to deter me from my opinion of Beasley as a gunner. Nothing is being made up, but we will agree to disagree.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

What, u dont think i been keepin tabs? lol. I haven't been following them as astutely, but i still check'd in now & again. Sure Beasley strength is scoring, but that dont mean he is a low IQ player or wreckless chucker. I dont kno what your trying to imply about Beasley here, but he actually gives us a chance now. Once we get Flynn n Webster n them back, this is a respectable team offensively. Just need to work on that D.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

KLo is dowwwn


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

^couldnt tell if it was knee or hammy. hope he's alright..


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Blu said:


> From the games I watched, KLove is more apt to force a bad, rushed shot than Beasley has been... I dont kno why Beasley gets a bad rap(actually i do kno why, but most of it has nothing to do with bball).
> 
> Of course, both guys will need to take a fair # of shots for there team to be competitive, but Beasley is a more polished player. Any who has watched the team can attest, Beasley gets his shots w/in the offenes. I dont kno why Love gets the perception of this guy taking high-quality shots, while Beasley gets the opposite. Beasley is a team guy. A smoothe player. Love, he has nice skills but he doesn't play with the same smoothness all the time.


A majority of his misses are jumpers (he takes a good amount of 3s) and he has little lift around the basket. He misses a lot of contested bunnies around the rim.

Beasley isn't jacking out there. He is literally the only guy they have that is creating his own shot.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

For the most part, they're good looks too.


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## Seanzie (Jun 9, 2003)

Dre™;6409288 said:


> And I already said I haven't seen a Wolves game


Then why the **** are you saying anything at all?

Look, Beasley has been a different player this year than his first two years in the league as an out-of-place young player on a team with a ball-dominant superstar. He's developing a scoring prowess and a killer instinct.

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. He IS the #1 option on that squad right now, and it's not even really close. The rest of the team is pretty pathetic at creating shot opportunities, and Beasley is soaring right now. I've been thoroughly impressed, and I honestly had written him off as a bust before the season.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Seanzie said:


> Then why the **** are you saying anything at all?
> 
> Look, Beasley has been a different player this year than his first two years in the league as an out-of-place young player on a team with a ball-dominant superstar. He's developing a scoring prowess and a killer instinct.
> 
> Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. He IS the #1 option on that squad right now, and it's not even really close. The rest of the team is pretty pathetic at creating shot opportunities, and Beasley is soaring right now. I've been thoroughly impressed, and I honestly had written him off as a bust before the season.


Why am I saying anything? Because the POV of a person that remembers his first couple years is relevant. Why are people acting like it's March 15th instead of Noveber 15th. 

What I'm saying is all fair, I'm speaking on him in context to his reputation 11 games ago.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

He looks much more fluid out there, instinctual. You can see the game is slowing down for him - that comes with being more involved and having great responsibility.


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## Seanzie (Jun 9, 2003)

Dre™ said:


> Why am I saying anything? Because the POV of a person that remembers his first couple years is relevant. Why are people acting like it's March 15th instead of Noveber 15th.
> 
> What I'm saying is all fair, I'm speaking on him in context to his reputation 11 games ago.


But it's a _completely_ different situation. With Miami, he was a troubled kid with low confidence who was the second or third best player on his team for the first time in his life. 

It's like saying you haven't seen Josh Freeman play this year, but you're judging him based on what he did his rookie year.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Seanzie said:


> But it's a _completely_ different situation. With Miami, he was a troubled kid with low confidence who was the second or third best player on his team for the first time in his life.
> 
> It's like saying you haven't seen Josh Freeman play this year, but you're judging him based on what he did his rookie year.


That's fair.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Wade County said:


> He looks much more fluid out there, instinctual. You can see the game is slowing down for him - that comes with being more involved and having great responsibility.


You're right. I've watched pieces of about 4 games and he never shoots when he's double teamed, which is still rarely but should change.

When they first made the trade I thought they were going to make him a 4 and play Love a lot at center. He doesn't look out of place at all. He makes quick decisions with the ball, he's not mucking up the process trying to force something. It's either catch and shoot or quick drive. He's moving around like a 6'9" Cuttino Mobley.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

He gets good space on that jumper too. He's got a very good mid range J, a solid long ball which defenders must respect, and he has really worked on his body this offseason so that he can blow by small forwards from the top of the key. 

In Miami he'd get called for offensive fouls regularly trying to barrel into the lane, I haven't seen him do that once yet (i've watched about 4 games). Decisive, quick, and smart ball. All things that are still questions on Mike - but he's learning. 

The reason he didnt flourish as a 3 in Miami is mainly due to our system, which relegates the 3 (unless they're LBJ) to corner spot up three duty and getting back on D first. Obviously not Mike's strong suits. We also weren't really sure what he was - was he a small 4 that can beat bigger guys with the first step? or a big SF that will struggle containing quick small forwards? 

Thankfully, it looks like he has comitted to that 3 spot, with spot 4 duty, and looks worlds better running majority of that TWolves offense from the mid-high post.


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

In regards to Beasley, when looking at efficiency, the best thing to look at is points per play. Shooting percentages are a little misleading, but he's getting 3 TOPG and shooting poorly from the free throw line.

Not to say that I'm not impressed, but I don't want my combo-forward taking 31 shots. Again, this speaks more to the level the team is playing at, because I've always likely Michael Beasley as well... but he's not a SF and he definitely isn't a SF next to Kevin Love with no defensive presence behind them. You don't want Michael Beasley as your first option (he's better suited to being a 2nd~ish option), you don't want Kevin Love to be your 2nd option (3rd~ish), and you don't want to give Sebastian Telfair the reins to your team.

I'd like this team a lot better if they had a shotblocker at C or a shot creator at PG or SG.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Darko is blocking nearly 3 per game. I know the rest of his game sucks (besides today) - but he can block shots.


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

He blocks shots, but he's not actually a good defender. There is definitely a difference. You have to finish plays defensively to be a stopper, he doesn't do that, and he also doesn't rebound well enough to make up for being a plus shot blocker but a poor defender. He has poor defensive rating numbers and definitely gives up his fair shair of points, it's unreasonable to think that he's going to stop his man as well as Beasley and Love's man from putting up buckets.

I will give Darko the shotblocking thing though, he's got good timing, he's super long and is a lot more athletic than people realize. Maybe once he gets all the way into shape he might be able to get some real stops too.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Wade County said:


> He looks much more fluid out there, instinctual. You can see the game is slowing down for him - that comes with being more involved and having great responsibility.


Yup I agree. I think a lot of people are under the impression that he's scoring more just because he has the ball in his hands a lot.

Beasley isn't trying to do a Wade or LeBron imitation, he doesn't keep the ball in his hands much at all. When he catches it, he's been either making a quick swing pass to someone else to attacking. He doesn't give the opposing defense a chance to crowd around him because he makes quick decisions. He's actually been showing that he can be a good 1st option potentially IMO.

Another thing I noticed is that he shoots a lot better on the move. He's not a catch and shoot guy and that's probably why he didn't play well in Miami. IE he's not effective in say Haslem's role of catching a ball in the mid range and then been expected to make stationary jump shots. When he gets a chance to pick an angle at the rim, the moving 5 to 9 feet jumpers go in at an impressive rate.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

A little hypertension in the knee, not a big deal.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Love on pace for another 30/30?


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

I instantly figured they had to be playing the Warriors.... and as soon as I saw that I had to check to see if Manna From Heaven himself was going for a 30/30


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Didn't Love have a 30-20 game against the Lakers earlier this month as well?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

This thread is all kinds of funny. Not sure where to even start.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Dre said:


> That said he's never going to be an all-star, Boozer/Amare/Bosh type of guy. I just can't trust his offensive palette.


This is a good one


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

What's changed this year to justify this bump? All the variables are basically the same. 

He is still putting up monster numbers, but he still isn't good enough to anchor a championship offense, or anchor a championship defense. You'll be hardpressed to find a franchise player on a great team that didn't anchor their team on at least one end of the floor (if not both). In this way, he hasn't separated himself from the Chris Bosh type big men. Love would be really good in Bosh's current role.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I don't think he's better than prime Amare or Bosh. Boozer is a tossup. **** your stats


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> What's changed this year to justify this bump? All the variables are basically the same.
> 
> He is still putting up monster numbers, but he still isn't good enough to anchor a championship offense, or anchor a championship defense. You'll be hardpressed to find a franchise player on a great team that didn't anchor their team on at least one end of the floor (if not both). In this way, he hasn't separated himself from the Chris Bosh type big men. Love would be really good in Bosh's current role.


How many players are good enough to anchor a Championship offense, or defense? Folks around here always insisted that Love was just a number monger, a guy putting up empty stats on a bad team....yada..yada..yada.....

The Wolves are in a playoff hunt, Love is 4th in the league in scoring, 2nd in rebounding, 2nd in free throws made and his improved his defense dramatically.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Dre said:


> I don't think he's better than prime Amare or Bosh. Boozer is a tossup. **** your stats


lol, **** stats? Mmmmkay.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Love would be really good in Bosh's current role.


Quality post. I agree on this one, that'd be his ideal role.

Still, he has put himself on that level. Can't argue with 25/15, but I agree with the fact he would be ideally suited for that current Bosh role, and that's nothing to be ashamed of.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> How many players are good enough to anchor a Championship offense, or defense? Folks around here always insisted that Love was just a number monger, a guy putting up empty stats on a bad team....yada..yada..yada.....


I don't think the argument is that he is just a number guy, I think the argument is that his numbers are inflated. That is undeniably true, in my opinion, considering his stat line looks like something Tim Duncan or Shaquille O'Neal might have posted 10 years ago, but his impact simply isn't that great. 

I mean, there were people comparing him to Moses Malone at one point. I think that speaks to the point that his numbers cause _some_ people to overrate him, but he is a very good basketball player.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> This thread is all kinds of funny. Not sure where to even start.


Is this the thread where you put Rip Hamilton and Laimbeer on the same level as Kevin McHale and compared Love to Moses Malone? Start there.


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