# CAST YOUR VOTE: subject=livingston



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

i've come to realize that shaun livingston polarizes the clippers fanbase...either you hate him or love him...so i just made a simple poll to gauge how many clipper fans want to keep him, and how many fans want to trade him away...if you don't like him, go ahead and vent, and cast your vote...if you like him, state your reasons and cast your vote...i don't know if this is important, but this poll will be public...

thanks for your participation...


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

keep him, too late to trade him, no superstars will come along


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

qross1fan said:


> keep him, too late to trade him, no superstars will come along



i wish we would've pulled the trigger on the paul pierce deal..the iverson fiasco doesn't bother me nearly as much as the pierce for maggs/livy cluster****...


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

"keep him, we have no other choice" 

that should be an option cuz its truly what its come down to...the Clippers had their chances but now its too ******* late


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> "keep him, we have no other choice"
> 
> that should be an option cuz its truly what its come down to...the Clippers had their chances but now its too ******* late



actually, that's a good suggestion, let me try to add it...

dammit, i tried, but i can't...if a mod can do it to add one more option, please do it for me...the line should read: "keep him, we have no other choice"...thanks...


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

i have more faith in getting something good from a trade than him ever improving. he certainly won't on this team anyways. so of course i want to get rid of this piece of crap...i think we would still be able to trade him for something decent. 



and i dont even want to think of the third option. keep him here because no team wants him now? that would be too depressing.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Shaun Livingston = Dog Poo


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Livingston is an over hyped player who didn't go to college.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

Well, he has played well tonight from what I've seen, maybe he read this board and somehow stopped being a lazy moth....ok I'm not going to finish that sentence, but you get my point.


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

qross1fan said:


> Well, he has played well tonight from what I've seen, maybe he read this board and somehow stopped being a lazy moth....ok I'm not going to finish that sentence, but you get my point.


the point is one game doesnt mean ****. or if livingston coincidently plays better after we create a nasty thread about him, then we need to bash him every night. i'll do the honors for friday's game


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Livingston a lazy moth?

I don't get how a moth is associated with being lazy...


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

well i didnt watch the game, but i read on some article online that he played a little better against the Bulls because Dunleavey told him to be 
"aggresive offensively" ....he even dunked the damn ball 
and is it me or does he always carry himself like i dont wanna say with humility but like that he knows he sucks???? 
he makes a shot and he doesnt smile, it seems like he whines to himself or something and says "damn i finally made one " all joking aside, is it that he never shows confidence??? its odd...he does it everytime he scores.....like an odd look on his face always....


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> well i didnt watch the game, but i read on some article online that he played a little better against the Bulls because Dunleavey told him to be
> "aggresive offensively" ....he even dunked the damn ball
> and is it me or does he always carry himself like i dont wanna say with humility but like that he knows he sucks????
> he makes a shot and he doesnt smile, it seems like he whines to himself or something and says "damn i finally made one " all joking aside, is it that he never shows confidence??? its odd...he does it everytime he scores.....*like an odd look on his face always*....



almost as if he was surprised that the shot actually went in...


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## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

As much as I would like to see him succeed here, I say trade him. It would benefit both parties.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> "keep him, we have no other choice"
> 
> that should be an option cuz its truly what its come down to...the Clippers had their chances but now its too ******* late


<strike>I hate to say it but you are an IDIOT</strike>!!! LIvy won the game last night after the CLips squandered a double digit lead. At least give him his props when they are deserved instead of bashing every second. Go back to the Laker side


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

how does weasel feel???the usual suspects have voted, how about the community mod???


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## 14HipClip (Aug 29, 2005)

14 Hip Clip won't be the same if they trade/get rid/ dump / purge..
there's no one worth trading for.
Don't be fooled with the Iverson deal.. Philly never wanted anything the Clips had.. even Mags and Livvy weren't going to do it.

Keep Hip Clip..


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## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> LIvy won the game last night after the CLips squandered a double digit lead. *At least give him his props when they are deserved instead of bashing every second*.


This is my biggest gripe with this forum. He gets threads saying he's hot garbage and everyone tends to vent their frustration with the overall season on HIM (ElMaffwhoeveryournameisspelled is AWAYS the first one ready to hand out the pitchforks and torches), but when he does something right and/or plays well I've YET to hear any good from ANYONE on this forum. I don't have the luxury that most of you have to see every game and relied on reading the Game Threads. But now I even don't bother with it (or this forum) anymore.

Have I been dissapointed in Shaun? Yes, especially since I've followed him since HS and know what he can do.
The team? Yes. Very much so. 

But unfortunately, some of you don't understand the line bewteen critcism and cutting a person down.

Now that I've vented my frustration with you all...

Until we get more scorers on this team Shaun will not flourish because he just can't shoot. You put him on a team with shooters like...the Wizards, and he'll be lethal because he can do what he does best - DISTRIBUTE. I hate what Dunleavy has done with the offense. It doesn't fit him at all. So while I still the kid has the goods, he just won't work out with us if we don't fix those two things. 

PS - His reluctance to drive is MADDENING. He's soo good at it, why he doesn't do it more is beyond me.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

NOBLE said:


> This is my biggest gripe with this forum. He gets threads saying he's hot garbage and everyone tends to vent their frustration with the overall season on HIM (ElMaffwhoeveryournameisspelled is AWAYS the first one ready to hand out the pitchforks and torches), but when he does something right and/or plays well I've YET to hear any good from ANYONE on this forum. I don't have the luxury that most of you have to see every game and relied on reading the Game Threads. But now I even don't bother with it (or this forum) anymore.
> 
> Have I been dissapointed in Shaun? Yes, especially since I've followed him since HS and know what he can do.
> The team? Yes. Very much so.
> ...



yep yep, that's exactly how i feel...i've been a supporter since he's been on the team, and it also bothers me that he is given no credit when he does good, but is blamed for every single problem that this team has...the most frustrating thing is that the haters never recognize the other problems that existed on this team, that contributed to the early season difficulties...

elton brand: didn't rest over the offseason, he played on the national team, got married, and produced a freakin movie...

chris kaman: seems like he didn't even work out to get better over the summer, he actually regressed...on offense, he *still* has not cut down on his stupid turnovers, and defense has gotten worse from last season...

tim thomas: was supposed to come in and be a longe range threat, and to provide a versatile big off the bench...didn't do either in the beginning of the season...

cuttino mobley: i like his dedication, but performance-wise, he stunk it up...another long range shooter that refused to take 3's...

daniel ewing: why is he even still in the nba???

the problems above were all huge problems that never seem to be adressed...it's always, livy sucks, livy's garbage, blah blah blah...

maybe livingston will string together a couple of good games, but i think the haters will still hate...no doubt about it...


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

NOBLE said:


> This is my biggest gripe with this forum. He gets threads saying he's hot garbage and everyone tends to vent their frustration with the overall season on HIM (ElMaffwhoeveryournameisspelled is AWAYS the first one ready to hand out the pitchforks and torches), but when he does something right and/or plays well I've YET to hear any good from ANYONE on this forum. I don't have the luxury that most of you have to see every game and relied on reading the Game Threads. But now I even don't bother with it (or this forum) anymore.
> 
> Have I been dissapointed in Shaun? Yes, especially since I've followed him since HS and know what he can do.
> The team? Yes. Very much so.
> ...


Well said.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

I'm sort've becoming a Livingston hater as he seems to lack the effort and desire necessary to become a great player. But i've never blamed him as the main reason the team is failing, Dunleavy deserves that honor.

Instead he pisses me off because of the blind faith the clipper's management has on the kid, we've passed up Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson (who is also a better PG, believe it), Vince Carter and who knows who else... The clippers have had opportunities to acquire top 10 players, but refused because Livingston is supposed to become even better.... whatever.

He's a good defender... but i think everyone here could could easily pick about 15 young PGs who are better right now than he ever will be in the future. It may be unfair to place the blame solely on Livingston, but management is better both the present and the future on this guy and he's not showing the consistent effort/skill level of his peers.


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## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

leidout said:


> Instead *he* pisses me off *because of the blind faith the clipper's management* has on the kid, we've passed up Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson (who is also a better PG, believe it), Vince Carter and who knows who else... The clippers have had opportunities to acquire top 10 players, but refused because Livingston is supposed to become even better.... whatever.


Your anger is misplaced. Shaun has absolutely no control over managment and their feelings. You should be mad at them. I can relate to the frustration that his peers seem to be passing him by.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

yeah, i always talk bad about Livingston and i am not positive but i am sure whenever he has mediocre games i have given him his "props" and say "why doesnt he do this more often" and well when the team struggles i dont place all the blame in Livingston its just that he sucks so much that its easy to blame him.....
"Instead he pisses me off because of the blind faith the clipper's management has on the kid, we've passed up Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson (who is also a better PG, believe it), Vince Carter and who knows who else... The clippers have had opportunities to acquire top 10 players, but refused because Livingston is supposed to become even better.... whatever."

that too....
and well....yeah management may be to blame for some things involving LIvingston...but they cant really change the fact that he sucks....
when he scores 10+ points, HE SHOULD SCORE THEM HE CANT ******* MISS LAYUPS or DUNKS.....8 assists thats the least he can do ......
i guess it is everyones fault who "hyped" this guy up like if he was gonna be any good....
and well im probably #1 Livingston "hater" 
but eh as long as he doesnt put together a run of good games and knocking down some ******* Js ima still talk **** about him...so eh 
if you want to hear some "nice things" about him just watch the games, or read some articles online no one seems to have the balls to bad mouth him for the scrub he really is ....and yeah there are probably 3rd string Pgs better than him ....
people Like Mike Smith probably know he will never do anything or help this ballclub so they say things like 
"Imagine when this kid realizes how good he can be...watch out"

but eh i can talk **** about Livingston for ages but his PLAY speaks louder than my words....


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

oh and about how bad the team was sucking earlier and using Livingston as a "Scapegoat" hmmm no....
he was the starting PG and its not a coincidence that since Sam came back the team has been playing better....
thats why i would direct my frustrations towards his direction....


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> oh and about how bad the team was sucking earlier and using Livingston as a "Scapegoat" hmmm no....
> he was the starting PG and its not a coincidence that since Sam came back the team has been playing better....
> thats why i would direct my frustrations towards his direction....



edited: innappropriate, don't want to get banned again...


hmmm...never used the "ignore" function, perhaps now is the time...


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> oh and about how bad the team was sucking earlier and using Livingston as a "Scapegoat" hmmm no....
> he was the starting PG and its not a coincidence that since Sam came back the team has been playing better....
> thats why i would direct my frustrations towards his direction....


You mean early in the season when everyone was tired and hurt? The team barely returned from Moscow, and on Brand had a longer offseason on top of that plus everyone was hurt, and Thomas didn't have his legs with him.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> edited: innappropriate, don't want to get banned again...
> 
> 
> hmmm...never used the "ignore" function, perhaps now is the time...



yeah ignore it....

you guys just better hope Sam can still go another year....cuz if Livingston becomes our permanent started in the near future.....lets start bracing 20something win seasons.....


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> but eh i can talk **** about Livingston for ages but his PLAY speaks louder than my words....


Especially because it's always hard to figure out what you're trying to say.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

i wonder if ElMarroAfamado is even a fan of the clippers...seems like he is a laker troll disguised as a clipper fan, and since we assume he is a clipper fan, he is given carte blanche to say whatever the **** he wants about our players...usually, if a poster is unhappy with a player they will state their reasons and explain their position...this troll just uses negative superlatives to describe our future pg...hmmmmmm............


change your avatar ElMarroAfamado, as you do not deserve to have a clipper in there...there are a lot of kobe ones that i'm sure you'd love...


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> yeah ignore it....
> 
> you guys just better hope Sam can still go another year....cuz if Livingston becomes our permanent started in the near future.....lets start bracing 20something win seasons.....


The kid came straight out of high school. T-Mac and JO werent instant superstars coming into the league. Let the kid develop. 

How bout we just ignore the SAME OLD REPETITIVE CRAP SPILLING OUT OF YOUR SNATCH! Just leave Laker boy


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## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

Interesting fact, only three Prep2Pros (not named Lebron) because a superstar in the league by their third year - Kobe, KG, and Tracy McGrady. In comparison to other P2Ps, that's still pretty lofty territory.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

NOBLE said:


> Interesting fact, only three Prep2Pros (not named Lebron) because a superstar in the league by their third year - Kobe, KG, and Tracy McGrady. In comparison to other P2Ps, that's still pretty lofty territory.


Good point. I think even T-Mac was a late developer. Lets not forget that he was stuck in Toronto for a few years


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

NOBLE said:


> Interesting fact, only three Prep2Pros (not named Lebron) because a superstar in the league by their third year - Kobe, KG, and Tracy McGrady. In comparison to other P2Ps, that's still pretty lofty territory.


Not really interesting at all, when these guys were giving the opprotunity (i.e. *30+ minutes*) throughout a season, they all blew up. The previous couple of years for theme, they played much less, same goes for Jermaine O'Neal's "late-blooming", the 1st year he got 30+ minutes, he became a double double guy, the next year he became a 20/10 guy.

Livingston has hovered around 30 mpg for 3 seasons now and has not really produced stats-wise or in ability to run the offense. He's a good defender, i will never take that away from him, but i just don't believe he's going to grow into an all-star level player.

MANY MANY MANY high school players just didn't pan out to the incredibly hyped levels they were supposed to reach. Unfortunately, the Clips fell for the same lure of drafting a high-schooler. The future for Livingston i see is him peaking to be about the 10th-15th best starting PG in the league, to me that's not worth keeping if we're banking the franchise on this guy.

By the way, before anyone declares me a non-clipper fan, i've been a clipper fan for nearly 10 years now and i've always wanted to see them win a championship, but it looks like we're destined to be a low-seed playoff team for the next few years at best. _Livingston is a major part of the reason we're not gonna win a championship, sorry if it's misplaced, but i dislike the guy because of that._


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## shaunliv (Sep 12, 2005)

Back when we had a chance to get Iverson, I was all for it. But, at this point of the season, unless Chris Paul or Deron Williams is offered (which will NEVER happen!) Livy's gonna stay and I'ma support him! 
Dude is still just a kid, all he needs is experience.
He's shown enough flashes of greatness to warrant a little more patience.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> The kid came straight out of high school. T-Mac and JO werent instant superstars coming into the league. Let the kid develop.
> 
> How bout we just ignore the SAME OLD REPETITIVE CRAP SPILLING OUT OF YOUR SNATCH! Just leave Laker boy


very mature....i will not stoop to the same leve...BUT
your post regarding Livingston become irrelevant when you have him on your avatar...and face it buddy....
he will never be **** in this league...and i hope you did not get your nick "DaFranchise" by giving that title to
livingston cuz boy ...you couldnt be more wrong....or maybe your expectations for him were that high ? 
that now that someone bad mouths him it e-gets to you ?? :lol: 

Doug Overton is better than livingston:lol:


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

leidout said:


> Not really interesting at all, when these guys were giving the opprotunity (i.e. *30+ minutes*) throughout a season, they all blew up. The previous couple of years for theme, they played much less, same goes for Jermaine O'Neal's "late-blooming", the 1st year he got 30+ minutes, he became a double double guy, the next year he became a 20/10 guy.
> 
> Livingston has hovered around 30 mpg for 3 seasons now and has not really produced stats-wise or in ability to run the offense. He's a good defender, i will never take that away from him, but i just don't believe he's going to grow into an all-star level player.
> 
> ...


good points...as far as championship ...with Livingston on the squad i doubt we can ever win one.....
i mean look at it....from Sam Cassell.....TO Livingston.......in terms of substituting during a game...you see 
the downgrade....


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