# New York / Chicago trade



## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

BULLS TRADE
Crawford, EROB, Fizer 

KNICKS TRADE
Ward, Kurt Thomas

This trade works on the RealGM tradechecker.

POSITIVES FOR THE BULLS:

- Ward, with his experience and defense, may fit the backup PG role alot better then Crawford.

- It helps our depth at Center. Kurt Thomas can defend both PF and Centers and is better overall player then Corie Blount, the current veteran backup PF/C. KT could be the main backup behind both Curry and Chandler, providing a nice 3-man rotation at PF/C. 

- Chemistry improves in alot of different areas. Three guys who think they should be starting but likely won't because of Jay Williams, Marshall, and Chandler will be traded for capable, defensive oriented players who've been through the NBA wars but aren't over the hill. This trade likely makes the Bulls a better team, how much better, I'm not sure.

- Bulls will be able to field a full (decent) veteran lineup in Ward, Rose, Marshall, Blount, and KT.

- Last, but certainly not least, both players contracts'(excluding team options) expire in the summer of 2004. At that time, including picking up the 4th year options for Chandler and Curry, the Bulls would be approximately 9 million dollars under the salary cap. That is also the summer when the class of 99(Artest) will become unrestricted free agents.

NEGATIVES FOR THE BULLS:

- We're giving up more talent then we get back, so we 'lose' the deal. 

- Crawford, Fizer, and EROB could all significantly improve their trade value this year if they play well, and it seems prudent to wait until the trade deadline or next summer unless a 'winning' deal comes along.

- We give up depth, albeit it young depth.

- If Crawford, Fizer, and EROB accept whatever role they play on the team, stay healthy, keep improving and play good defense, they could contribute signifcantly more then Ward and KT this year.

BULLS AFTER THIS TRADE

PG - Williams, Ward, Overton/Brunson
SG - Rose, Hoiberg, Mason(INJ)
SF - Marshall, Hassell
PF - Chandler, Blount, Baxter
CT - Curry, Thomas, Bagaric

And in summer 2004, 9 million in cap room to go after a SG/SF.

Knicks get 3 young, talented players and with their 2003 draft pick and Frank Williams and Postell, the Knicks will have alot of young talent to grow alongside veteran studs Sprewell, Houston, and McDyess. The Knicks lose their best Center, but KT wasn't the long-term answer at Center anyway.


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

No way this trade goes down. The Bulls are probably better off keeping Crawford and Fizer until there trade stock goes up, and they can get more than Charlie Ward and Kurt Thomas.


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## Shadows (Jun 8, 2002)

Moved by Shadows


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Better yet...*

First of all, there is speculation that the Bulls could get much, MUCH more for one or more of these guys. Wally Szczerbiak, for instance.

However, I don't think that's going to happen. Nor do I think the Bulls need to go and trade for ridiculous longterm contracts (e.g., Eddie Jones, Brian Grant).

NOW! The Knicks are currently asking the league to give them an injury trade exception as a result of the Antonio McDyess injury. That exception will be for about $4.6 million. This means that the Knicks can take on $4.6 mil worth of salary without having to give up anything in return to make the salaries match up.

In other words, this is an EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY for the Bulls to unload the undesirable longterm Eddie Robinson contract. Here's a deal that would totally work:

Eddie Robinson and Marcus Fizer to the Knicks; Kurt Thomas and the rights to Milos Vujanic (Yugo PG who the Knicks drafted in the 2nd round this year) to the Bulls

No more E-Rob (thank GOD), and Thomas is exactly the kind of veteran low post presence that Jerry Krause wanted this summer but couldn't get (I like Donyell Marshall, but he isn't exactly a bruiser in the paint). The Knicks have plenty of PT to give E-Rob as a result of the Latrell Sprewell injury, and Fizer will actually get a chance to be the #2 scoring option for this terrible Knicks team. Kurt Thomas was considered an undersized tweener bust when HE went to New York a few years ago, and look at him now. Maybe the same thing can happen with Fizer? Anyway, the Knicks are SURELY TO GOD in rebuilding mode right now, since they are suddenly a legit contender (the favorite, if you are a draft lottery conspiracy theorist) in the Lebron James Sweepstakes, which makes young guys like E-Rob and Fizer even more logical fits in New York.

Oh yeah, this trade trims about $4 million off the Bulls' 2002-03 payroll. More importantly, it rids the Bulls of the final several years of E-Rob's terrible contract.

ALSO, this trade not only gets rid of E-Rob and gives the Bulls some veteran playoff-tested leadership, BUT they can use Jamal Crawford to perhaps acquire ANOTHER good player sometime over the next couple of months. What if the T-Wolves decide that they can't afford to offer Szczerbiak a contract next summer? They can't let him walk, so they might be willing to trade him for a guy like Crawford. If the Bulls would cough up their 2003 1st round pick--and, let's face it, this team needs a veteran star like Wally World more than it needs YET ANOTHER 20-YEAR-OLD ROOKIE--along with Crawford and filler (Fred Hoiberg would be perfect), Kevin McHale would probably cough up Wally World. This would, of course, make TROY HUDSON or RADOSLAV NESTEROVIC the #2 scoring option (and the #1 scoring option in crunch time, when Kevin Garnett looks to pass rather than score) in Minnesota, which would, in turn, make the Timberwolves a lottery-bound team in 2002-03.

Let's take a look at the 2002-03 Bulls after these two trades:

Starting lineup

PG Jay Williams (32 mpg)
SG Wally Szczerbiak (40 mpg)
SF Jalen Rose (40 mpg)
PF Kurt Thomas (32 mpg)
C Eddy Curry (20 mpg)

Key reserves: Donyell Marshall (24 mpg), Tyson Chandler (20 mpg), Trenton Hassell (20 mpg), Corie Blount (12 mpg)

End of the bench: Dalibor Bagaric, Lonny Baxter, Rick Brunson

NOW, is it JUST ME, or is that team right there not a legit contender for the #7 or #8 spot in the East THIS YEAR? The team would have to re-sign Wally World, but seriously, is he REALLY going to make THAT MUCH MORE MONEY than E-Rob is making RIGHT NOW? The luxury tax-minded economic climate of today is completely different than the free-spending economic climate in the NBA just 2-3 years ago. Wally World WON'T get the max--in FACT, he'll probably get something along the lines of what Rashard Lewis got in Seattle. Which isn't that much more than what E-Rob is making right now AT ALL. In other words, believe it or not, the Bulls' payroll after these two trades--and I'm talking LONGTERM PAYROLL here--actually GOES DOWN! Hard to believe, but it's true!

Feedback?


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

I like the moves alot, though I think this team could use a really tough defensive swingmen to complement Rose, moreso then a great shooter and goot all-around player like Wally. Also, I'm not sure the Knicks would want to give up KT without getting Crawford because of his upside.


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

The Bulls do not want/need Kurt Thomas, that I can assure you of. Fizer is just as good, if not better than Thomas, and Crawford is a potential franchise PG.


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Devestata</b>!
> The Bulls do not want/need Kurt Thomas, that I can assure you of. Fizer is just as good, if not better than Thomas, and Crawford is a potential franchise PG.


I think Fizer isn't nearly as good at defending at the Center position as Kurt Thomas, something the Bulls need.

Freeing up 9 million in cap room in summer 2004 to go after a SG/SF also doesn't hurt this deal's merits.

Crawford doesn't have a long-term future with this team because Jay Williams is our likely PG of the future. And Crawford can't defend the SG consistently. Charlie Ward would be a very capable backup, and could teach Jay Williams alot more about playing PG in the NBA then Jamal.


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

I'd rather still keep Fizer until the trade deadline comes near to see what else we could get. BTW, are you sure about Charlie Ward? It seems Jay is holding his own on the court right now, so I don't know how much of a teacher Ward would be.


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## JaK (Aug 13, 2002)

*Hmmm..*

That's funny that this thread is up... I just found on Yahoo the following article:

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Bulls: Rose being shopped

by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Sunday, October 20, 2002 


News
Peter Vecsey of the New York Post reported that Bulls' vice president Jerry Krause is trying to trade his guard Jalen Rose. Rose and rookie point guard Jay Williams are supposedly incompatible. Vecsey says the New York Knicks are interested and may involve Latrell Sprewell in the trade discussion.


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As a Knick fan, I wouldn't mind seeing this trade go down... I appreciate Spree in all that he has done... But it's time for him to go, and I've always been a big Rose fan... I would actually like to see the trade happen... Straight up.. Rose for Spree... 

JaK


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

This has to be some kind of sick joke. Please don't tell me this is happening. Rose and Jay incompatible?  And, for Spree?


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## jacoby1us (Oct 18, 2002)

*NO GOOD*

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS TRADE REALLY DOES NOT BENEFIT THE BULLS, THIS TRADE IS GIVING UP TO MUCH! EROB, CRAWFORD, AND FIZER OH NO THAT WILL NOT WORK! JUST FOR THOMAS AND WARD, NO GIVE US SPREE, OR HOUSTON AND A PICK!!! WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE!!!:laugh:


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

too much!!! TOO MUCH no the Bulls are not giving up too much. They are giving up WWWWAAAAAAYYYYYYY TOO MUCH!!! I think that this deal is incredibly lopsided.


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