# I Had Enough Of Channing Frye



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

What a soft butter milk biscuit, compared to last year he has gotten worse. Opposing teams are abusing this kid! What the hell is wrong with him? Am I exaggerating or what? Lee has stepped up and if you didn't know the draft positions you would think Lee was selected ahead of him. Is it too soon to push the panic button? Between him and Jeffries I'm sick and tired of this guy on this team. :mad2:::end of rant::


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I guess I need to go to his myspace and tell him he's looking like a bust again. He might block me. :lol:


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

HKF said:


> I guess I need to go to his myspace and tell him he's looking like a bust again. He might block me. :lol:


I'm telling! :biggrin:


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

USSKittyHawk said:


> What a soft butter milk biscuit, compared to last year he has gotten worse. Opposing teams are abusing this kid! What the hell is wrong with him? Am I exaggerating or what? Lee has stepped up and if you didn't know the draft positions you would think Lee was selected ahead of him. Is it too soon to push the panic button? Between him and Jeffries I'm sick and tired of this guy on this team. :mad2:::end of rant::


Sophomore slumps tend to occur alot with young players so it is possible that Frye is no exception; I'm sure his leg injury did not help matters either. On the other hand, it's very possible he may not be the player everyone else thought him to be. Whatever the case, I think we've all been guilty of being down on him. I personally thought we should have traded him for a shot blocker but he was actually one of the better shot blockers during his day and a decent defender so maybe all he needs is time and patience. I would be willing to give him that and prove his worth (over Lee) before entertaining trade offers as I have.


----------



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Yeah Right! Dont Blame Frye for his POOR Performance. Dont Blame Jerome James for his Poor Performance.* 
The BIG-Blame goes to the Knicks Head Coach and his Poor Coaching Staff who spend every moment of their spare time this season working with just C-Eddy Curry on his Skillz & Talents, so Isiah Thomas could "SAVE-FACE" for the TWO first round draft selections given to the Chicago Bulls for the Curry trade. Get it right! 
David Lee plays outside of any structure coaching system the Knicks advise, Lee success at rebounding & Scoring and being in the right position has nothing to do with the Knicks LAME coaching, that is David Lee creative hustle he received before comming to the NBA. The Same could be said about Rookie Balkman creative hustle on court to rebound & Score and positioning himself. 


Channing Frye had great success as a Rookie when his frontcourt tandem partner was Davis, or James, or Butler, or Taylor, or Lee. The Curry/Frye Tandem did not work at all last season and has not improved this season with all the playingtime they received together. *Get it right... *


----------



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

All of Channing Frye playingtime this season as a PF is with C-Eddy Curry. 

Try to figure out why the Knicks head Coach dont play Frye at PF with C-Jerome James or C-Cato this season? nothing could be worst than the Curry/Frye tandem.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

HKF said:


> I guess I need to go to his myspace and tell him he's looking like a bust again. He might block me. :lol:


That maid has huge boobs. She looks like a naughty maid to me.


----------



## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Agree with Kiyaman*

Most is from the difference in the way he is being used. He was a main weapon last year and worked the pick and pop very well. He seems to be a player that needs to be very confident to excel and he doesn't look it now. He should also be placed with a defender/ rebounder to take some of the pressure of him. I think he shines with the right system/use. He was never a good man to man defender in college and was predicted to have problems guarding NBA PFs because of lack of quickness (nbadraft.net). IMO, his best position would be at center after he adds another 15 lbs or so. Prolly be a 20/10 guy.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: Agree with Kiyaman*



alphaorange said:


> Most is from the difference in the way he is being used. He was a main weapon last year and worked the pick and pop very well. He seems to be a player that needs to be very confident to excel and he doesn't look it now. He should also be placed with a defender/ rebounder to take some of the pressure of him. I think he shines with the right system/use. He was never a good man to man defender in college and was predicted to have problems guarding NBA PFs because of lack of quickness (nbadraft.net). IMO, his best position would be at center after he adds another 15 lbs or so. Prolly be a 20/10 guy.


Kiya and Dog are guys basically saying that Larry Brown's actually did a great job with him. :biggrin: LB would be so proud. The kid just annoys me though, it's like he is a waste of a roster spot. I'll try to have patience but it will be extremely tough to do.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> *Yeah Right! Dont Blame Frye for his POOR Performance. Dont Blame Jerome James for his Poor Performance.*
> The BIG-Blame goes to the Knicks Head Coach and his Poor Coaching Staff who spend every moment of their spare time this season working with just C-Eddy Curry on his Skillz & Talents, so Isiah Thomas could "SAVE-FACE" for the TWO first round draft selections given to the Chicago Bulls for the Curry trade. Get it right!
> David Lee plays outside of any structure coaching system the Knicks advise, Lee success at rebounding & Scoring and being in the right position has nothing to do with the Knicks LAME coaching, that is David Lee creative hustle he received before comming to the NBA. The Same could be said about Rookie Balkman creative hustle on court to rebound & Score and positioning himself.
> 
> ...


Even last year, I felt the player with the most potential on our team was easily Eddy Curry. This isn't a knock on Frye but a PF with the ability to shoot the ball with range and occassionally block a couple shots is fairly prototypical in this league. All he had proven that he was capable of doing so on a more consistent and higher rate than a good portion of them, those kind of guys can be countered against. 

A player with Curry's physical gifts that make him one of the strongest at his position and simultaneously one of the most nimble, give him a clear cut advantage over Frye. He's the kind of potential that is hard to stop once he utilizes his skills; in fact, Curry can not be stopped. That is the kind of player you put you your resources around and Isiah Thomas understood that and is making the necessary steps to allow Curry to reach that potential.

Alot of people will criticize Isiah for his coaching ability but I applaud him for his patience especially when he was considered to be a very trigger happy GM. Honestly, I believe that his coaching system is all about phases. At the moment, he has had Curry develop 3 very effective post moves that have catapulted him to the top of the center position. Once he perfects these moves, I'm sure Curry will be taught moves to counter different instances when he is challenged, thus making it all the more harder for him to be gaurded. In fact, all the big time players in the league at a young age usually add something to their games as time progresses. Lebron added a jump shot, Howard added some post moves, Yao Ming added counter moves to his jump shot, etc. This is not a sprint but a marathon so the growth process is all about steady progression rather than overwhelming these players with everythin they will eventually know.

The same is being applied to Channing Frye. We all know he is an accomplished jump shooter which is hard to stop at 6-11. The next step in his game is to diversify it. I think at the moment we're attempting to develop several go to moves for Frye facing the basket as we have with Curry. That's why there are no plays really run for Frye at the moment and why he is often creating for himself. The strategy is not helping our cause this year but certainly will down the road if Frye proves he is capable of putting the ball on the floor and scoring in several different fashions. It would help him shed of the prototype PF preception and pair us with one of the most dynamic scoring duos in the paint and possibly the league in the future. The main problem is that Frye is a painfully slow learner. I read in high school that the guy could not even run backwards without stumbling over his own two feet. It took him 18 years to perfect that one. To make matters worse, Frye is also a big man who are usually much slower to reach their potential than back-court players. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm guilty of being impatient with the guy to but this is not a sprint.


If you think about it, Curry and Frye are two naturally complimenting players; Frye the ying to Curry's yang. Frye helps spread the defense and take some of the scoring burden from Curry while Curry creates space for Frye and takes some of the scoring burden as well. They are already a lethal combination if they play to their strengths but if they were able to successfully diversify their game in the manner Isiah seems to want, they would be dangerously lethal, LOL. The next step of course for them would be on defense which both are painful to watch at times. With their athletic ability, that should improve but I feel that improvement may still not make them the kind of guys that make teams afraid to go to the paint.


----------



## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*They can be complimentary players...but*

only if Curry's shot attempts go down and Frye's go up. Defensively they are incompatible at this time. Both are poor rebounders and exceptionally bad defenders. Bad mix. Curry is one of the worst centers as far as boards/minute and Frye isn't exactly top 50%, either. Curry may be the 2nd best center, offensively, but when you factor in the lackadaisical play at crucial times (at times), the poor rebounding, poor passing, poor defense (including low blocks), and high turnovers, he is not a top center in my mind. Frye MUST get tougher and PLAY tougher.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*yawns*


I been said this about Channing Frye - trade him while his stock is high. Nothing about him says franchise player. Eddy Curry on the other hand, has the potential to be a franchise player, 2nd tier of course. And David Lee is a great compliment to Curry.

I'd package Frye with Jeffries. Just find a way to get rid of those two, somehow.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Tragedy said:


> *yawns*
> 
> 
> I been said this about Channing Frye - trade him while his stock is high. Nothing about him says franchise player. Eddy Curry on the other hand, has the potential to be a franchise player, 2nd tier of course. And David Lee is a great compliment to Curry.
> ...


You only have one franchise player and with Curry being that, as you stated, why would we need Frye to be another? We just need Frye to compliment Curry.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: They can be complimentary players...but*



alphaorange said:


> only if Curry's shot attempts go down and Frye's go up. Defensively they are incompatible at this time. Both are poor rebounders and exceptionally bad defenders. Bad mix. Curry is one of the worst centers as far as boards/minute and Frye isn't exactly top 50%, either. Curry may be the 2nd best center, offensively, but when you factor in the lackadaisical play at crucial times (at times), the poor rebounding, poor passing, poor defense (including low blocks), and high turnovers, he is not a top center in my mind. Frye MUST get tougher and PLAY tougher.


Why would Curry's shot attempts have to go down when he's a top 5 shooter in the league? If anything they should go up. As for Frye, I believe he needs to have more shots in our offense but not at the sacrifice of Curry's. This thing works if we focus on developing the two of them. Still, I do not believe they will improve substantially on defense or be anything more than average defenders. The rebounding aspect of things is irrelevant to me because we are currently the best rebounding team in the league. The better the rebounding on the team the harder it is to rebound as an individual player. Defense and passing are what these two need to work on because I think the offensive develop of this team is being brought along slowly so these guys get a feel for the players around them.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> You only have one franchise player and with Curry being that, as you stated, why would we need Frye to be another? We just need Frye to compliment Curry.


because he wont. and it would be better to get someone who can compliment curry, but who plays another position. david lee already compliments curry


----------



## mmmdk (Jul 16, 2002)

Tragedy said:


> because he wont. and it would be better to get someone who can compliment curry, but who plays another position. david lee already compliments curry


Without Lee, Curry is ordinary. Curry can't handle double team and Curry cannot defend hence gets in foul trouble. Without Lee, Curry is easy to defend. Curry is not a franchise player yet - not untill he can dominate on his own. He might still develop into a dominating center but as of now - I'm not seeing it on the court. And without Lee or a Lee type player, then Curry is just a scorer and not a dominator that brings potential titles to NY. Curry is still just 24 but somehow time is ticking.

It's better to score 43 points with FG 50% than just 19 points with a FG 60%. That's a franchise player.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

mmmdk said:


> Without Lee, Curry is ordinary. Curry can't handle double team and Curry cannot defend hence gets in foul trouble. Without Lee, Curry is easy to defend. Curry is not a franchise player yet - not untill he can dominate on his own. He might still develop into a dominating center but as of now - I'm not seeing it on the court. And without Lee or a Lee type player, then Curry is just a scorer and not a dominator that brings potential titles to NY. Curry is still just 24 but somehow time is ticking.
> 
> It's better to score 43 points with FG 50% than just 19 points with a FG 60%. That's a franchise player.



Without Lee, Curry is ordinary? Lee does not put the ball in the basket for Curry and that is basically the player Curry is. You can't even argue that Lee makes the game easier for Curry offensively because Lee's guy regularly leaves him to double down on Curry. 

Curry IS a dominating center which is evident by the fact that he scores 19ppg on 60% shooting and regularly demands coverage from multiple players. They wouldn't need several players to cover him if he wasn't dominant on the floor. So what if he's not a good defender? That has no bearing on whether he's a franchise player because guys like Dirk Nowitki and Pau Gasol are all soft defenders yet they are easily considered franchise players.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Tragedy said:


> because he wont. and it would be better to get someone who can compliment curry, but who plays another position. david lee already compliments curry


Frye compliments Curry offensively and Lee just adds a substitute whwo does so in another man. I do believe we need someone else at a different position that compliments Curry notably but that doesn't mean we have to get rid of Frye.


----------



## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*You're not understanding the dynamics of*

frontcourt relationships. I said Curry's attempts need to go down so that Frye will get more looks. He needs to be a focus to be effective offensively. He does compliment Curry offensively. I said that already. You need to stop thinking that Curry is already a franchise player. He is an very good offensive player at this time, who offers nothing else on a consistent basis...including leadership. I will make a prediction. If the Knicks get into the playoffs, watch how teams make Curry disappear, leaving it up to others to win games. How many people in the business have to say that Curry needs to improve his shot-blocking, rebounding, and passing out of doubles, while cutting down on turnovers to be an elite (franchise) player before you believe it?

1) Lee is a great partner with Curry because he allows Curry to dominate the lowpost offensively while not having to concentrate on rebounds (Curry STILL needs to get better, though).

2) Frye puts more pressure on the 3 and 5 to board because he does not board well and he also is weak defensively. When he gets beat (which is frequently), there is no one to pick up the free player (one of Curry's weaknesses). Not a great combo as is, unless someone is a monster boardman and shotblocker (Smith, perhaps?) from the 3.

3) Ideally, Curry will add a couple of boards/game and become at least a 1.5BPG center with an ability to find open players at least once in a while when doubled. AND....Frye will develop into a 1.5 BPG guy who averages 8-9 RPG, with the ability to cut off his man once in a while. AND....Lee will learn to defend SFs and improve his jumpshot. THAT is a championship frontcourt.

I would say Lee is the biggest lock to do what he needs to do. IMO, Frye CAN rebound better and WILL block a few more shots but defensing PFs will always be problematic for him. I think Curry will improve on offense but still be a revolving door on defense and have problems actually pursuing rebounds. 

Next year is the KEY year. If the above improvements are not being hinted at, it will be time to restructure how the frontcourt will function. Personally, I have trouble getting behind a center who is SO damned weak on the boards, and on defense. For as dominating as he can be on offense, there are times when his other flaws make it hard to win a game. I would really like to see Frye play more center. Smaller, faster, more well-rounded centers are the future (unless you lucky enough to have an Oden). If Frye could play it and be a 15-18 ppg and a 8-10 rpg center, I would have no problems trading Curry for a young star at the 1,2,or 3. (J Johnson, Paul, melo, D Williams, Jefferson, Ginolbli, guys of that ilk)


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: You're not understanding the dynamics of*



alphaorange said:


> frontcourt relationships. I said Curry's attempts need to go down so that Frye will get more looks. He needs to be a focus to be effective offensively. He does compliment Curry offensively. I said that already. You need to stop thinking that Curry is already a franchise player. He is an very good offensive player at this time, who offers nothing else on a consistent basis...including leadership. I will make a prediction. If the Knicks get into the playoffs, watch how teams make Curry disappear, leaving it up to others to win games. How many people in the business have to say that Curry needs to improve his shot-blocking, rebounding, and passing out of doubles, while cutting down on turnovers to be an elite (franchise) player before you believe it?
> 
> 1) Lee is a great partner with Curry because he allows Curry to dominate the lowpost offensively while not having to concentrate on rebounds (Curry STILL needs to get better, though).
> 
> ...




I think it is ridiculous to claim that Curry is not a franchise player because he just scores the ball. Look around the league, several big men just score the ball and no one questions that title. Dirk Nowitiki is a scorer, nothing more. Pau Gasol, scorer with some passing skills, but nothing more (and you saw how people ****ted his pants when they found out he was available). Zach Randolph, scorer, nothing more. Granter there rebounding got better as time progressed, why should Curry be exempt from this title when he puts up the numbers to be qualified as such? The man regularly commands a double team because he's just that big of a problem on the floor which is the sign of a man that teams are built around, hence the franchise player tag. I doubt any of that changes, no matter the playoffs, because 19ppg on 60% shooting doesn't just evaporate over night.

P.S., I'm pretty sure Curry being on THE BEST rebounding team in the league has to do with him not completely reaching his rebounding potential. As long as we're a strong rebounding team, does it matter that he's not a double digit rebounder? We still will ultimately get the same number of possessions even if he does increasae his rebounding because when he does, someone elses will go down.


----------



## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: You're not understanding the dynamics of*

Curry as much improvement as he's had in this past season, is still not wonderful on the defensive end. He can pull down 7 rebounds with no problems, but that's about it for him. Him and Frye still need to practice on rebounding. But I think one of the main reasons that Frye is not doing so well is the fact that Frye is a jumpshooter. As everyone's looking to pass to Curry, Frye isn't getting enough touches for himself to feel confident. Another reason why I think Frye's in a slump is because Isiah's put so much stock into Eddy over the summer and not enough into Frye. I'm pretty sure Mark Agguire will have to help Channing this summer or he'll have to go seek it from legends like Moses Malone or something. But one thing's for certain, Frye needs his confidence.


----------



## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: You're not understanding the dynamics of*



Gotham2krazy said:


> Curry as much improvement as he's had in this past season, is still not wonderful on the defensive end. He can pull down 7 rebounds with no problems, but that's about it for him. Him and Frye still need to practice on rebounding. But I think one of the main reasons that Frye is not doing so well is the fact that Frye is a jumpshooter. As everyone's looking to pass to Curry, Frye isn't getting enough touches for himself to feel confident. Another reason why I think Frye's in a slump is because Isiah's put so much stock into Eddy over the summer and not enough into Frye. I'm pretty sure Mark Agguire will have to help Channing this summer or he'll have to go seek it from legends like Moses Malone or something. But one thing's for certain, Frye needs his confidence.


Why can't Frye just practice on his own like 85% of other players? The coaching staff concentrating on improving Curry's game isn't an excuse for Frye not to imrpove his own.


----------



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

If you want Frye to have consistent double-double games give him 30 mpg with either Lee as his partner, or Jerome James as his partner, or Balkman as his partner, and a few minutes of Cato as his partner in the frontcourt. But NO-minutes with Eddy Curry during Frye 30 mpg. 

*It was obvious as a Duck quack last season (2005-6) that Frye & Curry did not mix...*


----------



## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Twink,*

Of all the players you mentioned only Nowitzki is a franchise player. That he only scores is one of the most ignorant statements to be seen on this board. The guy averages 25.4/9.6/3.5/1 and with only 2 TOs. What else do you want him to do? Park cars? Those other guys are nice players, but nobody was ****ting thier pants to get Gasol. The Bulls wouldn't even part with Deng. Everyone wanted him, but wouldn't offer much. Put Dirk's name out there and you'll see a real feeding frenzy. Randolf isn't even a high level star, no less a franchise player. BTW, remove Lee, Qrich, and Balkman, and replace with ordinary guys and the Knicks rebounding drops like a stone. Meanwhile, Curry will STILL average 7 boards. Son, you ain't right.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Kiyaman said:


> If you want Frye to have consistent double-double games give him 30 mpg with either Lee as his partner, or Jerome James as his partner, or Balkman as his partner, and a few minutes of Cato as his partner in the frontcourt. But NO-minutes with Eddy Curry during Frye 30 mpg.
> 
> *It was obvious as a Duck quack last season (2005-6) that Frye & Curry did not mix...*


OMG Kiya, did you see the Seattle game? Frye is a pathetic soul, I can't stand him.


----------



## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

Kiyaman said:


> If you want Frye to have consistent double-double games give him 30 mpg with either Lee as his partner, or Jerome James as his partner, or Balkman as his partner, and a few minutes of Cato as his partner in the frontcourt. But NO-minutes with Eddy Curry during Frye 30 mpg.
> 
> *It was obvious as a Duck quack last season (2005-6) that Frye & Curry did not mix...*


It's obvious that Curry NEEDS the ball to be effective. If no one feeds the big man the ball, he'll starve! He can't scrap for himself! Obviously Channing doesn't need it as much and pairing David and Renaldo with Channing is good, as they both earn their points off of hustling.


----------



## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Catwoman....*

I will grant you that Frye is not playing well but I have seen enough of him at times to know he has it in him. Remember last year when he tried to dunk over Mourning 3 times in the same game? Yes, he was denied but who hasn't been denied by Alonzo? He's just playing like crap. There was a stretch last season where he was averaging 20 and 8 or 9. Did he just forget how to play or is there more going on? I think Isiah needs to take a lot of the blame. All the players he talks about being important.....do you ever hear him mention Channing? If the coach forgets about you, it takes a very strong guy to remain confident. Complain about Brown all you want but handling Frye the way he did was something he did very well.


----------

