# Central Matchups: Cavs vs Bulls



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The Bulls with the most changes in the Central.

Z vs Wallace
Gooden vs Brown
Lebron vs Nocioni
Hughes vs Gordon
Snow vs Hinrich
Frontcourt Benches: AV/Marshall vs Sweetney/Thomas/Deng
Backcourt Benches: Wesley/Brown/Jones vs Duhon/Sefolasha

The Bulls of all the central teams have the most bodies to throw at Lebron (Nocioni, Deng, Sefolasha, Adrian ,Griffin, and Thomas). That being said last year they had to resort to throwing Duhon onto Lebron so it will be about bodies versus the superstar.

Frankly, Ben Wallace doesn't scare the Cavs as they handled him pretty well last year and really brought his offensive weakness and w/o his budy Rasheed to be that frontcourt post player that causes the Cavs fits, PJ Brown, Sweetney and those other guys don't have a player that the Cavs can't guard. Wallace does take away the big edge Z gave us in prior years against the Bulls as Z couldn't score against any team with a competent post defender in the playoffs last year. In the end I'd call it in favor of the Cavs because of Lebron the outside/inside combos of AV/Marshall/and Gooden.

On the outside, the Bulls seem to have a big edge unless Hughes goes back to being the Wizards Hughes. Even if Hughes performs at his peak, I like the Bulls bench and ability to go big and small btw Deng, Duhon, Hinrich, etc. Snow is just a killer against these guys in a bad way for the Cavs. Can't guard any Bulls players and that leaves Jones who can't guard any players but at least can strecth the floor. Wesley I doubt can play more then 20 minutes a game so that leaves Shannon Brown. In all the Cavs matchup it seems Brown is a guy we're going to be counting on to be the combined top notch defender and offensive player we don't have combined in another guard other then Hughes.

In the end, as every other Cavs vs Central team matchup I see this going 7 games. Cavs frontcourt edge vs the Bulls frontcourt edge: I'll throw it to the Cavs and go with the superstar. Strange that these teams true potential lies with two rookies (Thomas with the Bulls and Brown for the Cavs)


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

We swept this team last season in the season series. They've done nothing to change the makeup of the team to that of a team that can beat us. At the end of the day, despite the number of bodies they have, none of them can guard Lebron. Especially if we have anybody hot from outside. As soon as Marshall or Jones or Wesley start hitting that corner 3, the Bulls have no answer for us offfensively.

And if Larry Hughes comes back healthy, that's even more problems for them. The guy on the team that gives us fits is Ben Gordon, but Ben isn't consistent. He might rain in 30 one time and 12 the next.

In the frontcourt we still have more quality there. Ben Wallace is more an advantage to us, because he gives us someone we can double off of defensively and trap the Bulls guards. Forcing turnovers. And when Ben does get the ball all of our guys know to foul him, so it's like a turnover there too.

I expect the Bulls might win a game this year against us. Maybe. If we do play each other in the playoffs, we are more battle tested, and that would come to show in a seven game series. The Pistons series should have taught us a lot. I expect in a playoff series Cavs win 4-1. I just can't see the Bulls winning at the Gund, and I can see Lebron raising his game in Chicago enough to win the games neccessary there.

At the end of the day these games will come down to Ben Gordon vs. Lebron James. And sorry, Ben just isn't on Lebron's level.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> We swept this team last season in the season series. They've done nothing to change the makeup of the team to that of a team that can beat us. At the end of the day, despite the number of bodies they have, none of them can guard Lebron. Especially if we have anybody hot from outside. As soon as Marshall or Jones or Wesley start hitting that corner 3, the Bulls have no answer for us offfensively.
> 
> And if Larry Hughes comes back healthy, that's even more problems for them. The guy on the team that gives us fits is Ben Gordon, but Ben isn't consistent. He might rain in 30 one time and 12 the next.
> 
> ...



What are you talkinhg about the bulls have not improve . They added the defensive player of the year . What have the Cavs add ? Sure they Lebron But who else ? Larry Hughes Looked like the underchieving Larry Hughes once again . Plus Big Z and Marshall looked old in the Pistons Series . I think the bulls have more talent than the cavs. The Only the Advantage the cavs is Lebron James


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

To be honest the Bulls likely had more talent than the Cavs did last year. That didn't matter. It's about how you play on the court and in that respect the Cavs were better last year pretty easily. The Cavs have an enormous advantage in the front court against the Bulls while the Bulls have the backcourt advantage. The acquisition of Wallace really was not that impressive to me especially since it'll likely end up costing the Bulls one of their younger guys down the line. Overall, I still give the Cavs the advantage at present.


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

The OUTLAW said:


> To be honest the Bulls likely had more talent than the Cavs did last year. That didn't matter. It's about how you play on the court and in that respect the Cavs were better last year pretty easily. The Cavs have an enormous advantage in the front court against the Bulls while the Bulls have the backcourt advantage. The acquisition of Wallace really was not that impressive to me especially since it'll likely end up costing the Bulls one of their younger guys down the line. Overall, I still give the Cavs the advantage at present.


First of I don't agree with claim that Bulls were more talented than Cavs last year. Please provide some sort of reasoning coz I just don't see what you are talking about.
About matchup: You match up well and have played well against Bulls but they improved just about that much that your "allmighty" frouncourt has to score or you are in trouble. I mean if AV doesn't see th floor, big Z sucks again, Marshall can't hit his long jumpers and Gooden turns ball over and is inconsistent then you are done pretty much done no matter how well Lebron and Hughes plays. Now if some part of your frontcourt has bad day you face some serious problems coz Bulls wings/guards know how to hit jumpers... 
So I don't think it's as easy matchup as it seems, I agree Miami is bit bad example but still they had front cour advantage and flashy guy who could drive well but Bulls put up serious fight. I agree Lebron is nightmare for Bulls but I belive that Noch is one of best guys you can put on him in tearms of toughness and dirty play and they do have depth so for game or two that alone can be big factor. 
But in the end if your main guys play well (esp. Hughe/big Z) and someone of your awful or unexperienced pg's can hit easy shots then I'd say Cavs beat Bulls 4-2 or 4-3.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> What are you talkinhg about the bulls have not improve . They added the defensive player of the year . What have the Cavs add ? Sure they Lebron But who else ? Larry Hughes Looked like the underchieving Larry Hughes once again . Plus Big Z and Marshall looked old in the Pistons Series . I think the bulls have more talent than the cavs. The Only the Advantage the cavs is Lebron James


The Bulls did not improve in the areas they needed to. I.E. A low post scorer. They were already fine defensively. It's hard to get much better defensively than they already were. But they needed a low post scorer. They didn't get one. They have no go-to play for points down the crunch. They have to hope Ben Gordon's jumper is falling. Because they are still a jump shooting team. Except now they are a jump shooting team with a fifth man who is a liability on the offensive end.

And as for the Cavs, they won 50 game without Larry Hughes, and without Verejao for half a year. You didn't need to add much. We wanted help at point guard. We did some drafting and signing in that direction. We now have a glut of combo guards to try. Hopefully at least one of them sticks.

Oh yeah, we also did the 50 wins, with Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall having career low years.

So I think, we'll be alright.

4-0 against the Bulls last year, and the Bulls have yet to really address the reasons why that was so. Honestly drafting Thabo and trading for PJ Brown were the important moves this summer. Not Ben Wallace. But I don't think they will be enough.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Banjoriddim said:


> First of I don't agree with claim that Bulls were more talented than Cavs last year. Please provide some sort of reasoning coz I just don't see what you are talking about.
> About matchup: You match up well and have played well against Bulls but they improved just about that much that your "allmighty" frouncourt has to score or you are in trouble. I mean if AV doesn't see th floor, big Z sucks again, Marshall can't hit his long jumpers and Gooden turns ball over and is inconsistent then you are done pretty much done no matter how well Lebron and Hughes plays.


Oh what, you mean to tell me if half of our everyday rotation doesn't show up to play, the Bulls might have a shot?

Hmmmm....ya think?

Thing is, if the same thing happened to the Bulls they would lose by 30 to us. However if the same thing happened to us, we could still win based just on Lebron James magic. We have that type of player who can win games almost by himself. The Bulls don't.

In many ways comparing these two teams now is a lot like comparing the Bulls under Jordan before they became "the bulls" vs. some of the good Cavs teams. On paper those Cavs teams should have won almost everytime. But at the end of the day, one team had Jordan, and the other didn't. Same thing today. At the end of the day, you can toss everything else out, because the Cavs have Lebron James, and the Bulls don't.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> The Bulls did not improve in the areas they needed to. I.E. A low post scorer. They were already fine defensively. It's hard to get much better defensively than they already were. But they needed a low post scorer. They didn't get one. They have no go-to play for points down the crunch. They have to hope Ben Gordon's jumper is falling. Because they are still a jump shooting team. Except now they are a jump shooting team with a fifth man who is a liability on the offensive end.
> 
> And as for the Cavs, they won 50 game without Larry Hughes, and without Verejao for half a year. You didn't need to add much. We wanted help at point guard. We did some drafting and signing in that direction. We now have a glut of combo guards to try. Hopefully at least one of them sticks.
> 
> ...



One of the reason why the Bulls Lost 4-0 Is Because they traded there Main Big men with Curry and Davis before the season started . This season they Brought in PJ Brown and Ben Wallace and Tyrus Thomas.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Wow, so if Z sucks and Varejao doesn't play, Gooden doesn't show up and Marshall isn't hitting the Bulls would win? Now thats going out on a limb.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

first off the cavs dont have a pg. eric snow sucks and i dont think the rookies brown or gibson will help the team at all. they have no bench. who do they have ira newble? damon jones? sure they have lebron and larry hughes and Z but wat happens when they get in foul trouble or they there not helping lebron. he cant do it all on his own. this year the bulls have more superior players this year then last.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Bulls rock your socks said:


> first off the cavs dont have a pg. eric snow sucks and i dont think the rookies brown or gibson will help the team at all. they have no bench. who do they have ira newble? damon jones? sure they have lebron and larry hughes and Z but wat happens when they get in foul trouble or they there not helping lebron. he cant do it all on his own. this year the bulls have more superior players this year then last.


 The bench for the Cavs is a strength: AV, Marshall, Wesley, Jones, Brown. In terms of quality subs the only position the Cavs don't have a decent one for is actually is SF. You are right about Snow but the bench this year is better situated to help then last year. The thing is if the Cavs had even an average quality starter at PG the Cavs would be a title contender: it's a big hole but the Cavs are solid at every other spot including the bench


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> One of the reason why the Bulls Lost 4-0 Is Because they traded there Main Big men with Curry and Davis before the season started . This season they Brought in PJ Brown and Ben Wallace and Tyrus Thomas.


Right, and PJ, Ben, and Tyrus don't replace what you lost in Curry and Davis. It's called post scoring. You've got none. Bulls are a jumpshooting team. Cavs just have to take care of the defensive glass and the Bulls unless they are red hot, will be dead in the water.


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Right, and PJ, Ben, and Tyrus don't replace what you lost in Curry and Davis. It's called post scoring. You've got none. Bulls are a jumpshooting team. Cavs just have to take care of the defensive glass and the Bulls unless they are red hot, will be dead in the water.


Generally I agree with you but I don't see why you have to have good post option or you will be ****... I helps but as we saw Curry sucked seriously and they were basicly as good with out him. I think Bulls biggest weaknes is still the fact that they don't have the guy who can finish and get to the line. Also I see the problem with jump shooting but then again the fact that they take (and can take) a lot of jumpers doesn't mean all that much if other team doesn't take advantage or if they hit theire shots. About Ben I agree he is overrated but he is tough guy who can pass and defend (weak side) and rebound (pretty useful) and I think he will do fine. Now why did I talk about it? Well coz to me your offense is also bit like 4 against 5 with Snow running th show and he doesn't defend that well and if you have Jones on court you still have in serious trouble on defense. So it's not like you have advantages coz Ben is on the floor you have advantages coz you have Bron who can bring W home even when big Z and Snow cant hit open jumper. You have serious advantages but some of your guys have been let downs and Bulls have great defense and they are great team with good spirt, toughness and attitude so I wouldn't be claim that you can roll over them without problems in playoffs.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Ben Wallace is a bigger liability offensively than Eric Snow. At least if Eric Snow gets fouled he might make both free throws. Also Eric is sometimes capable of having good scoring nights. But Wallace is an actual liability on offense, because if he gets the ball, you can just foul him and send him to the line, which is the same as a turnover.

Plus the Cavs playing 4 on 5 offensively is okay, because Lebron makes up for it. Nobody on the Bulls makes up for it, unless Ben Gordon is having a really hot night.

And right. You can change post scoring option to "guy who scores points in the paint" because the Bulls don't even have that. None of their guards finish around the basket in traffic. Luol Deng is the closest thing they have to a slasher, and they don't go to him a whole lot, and he's honestly not that intimidating driving at the basket. But you have to have a guy who can get at the center of the other teams defense, get easy points, and go to the free throw line. Otherwise when you go cold from the jumpshooting, if the other team is at all competent at rebounding the ball(the Cavs are), then you have little to no chance.

And as good as the Bulls defense is, a good defense is still at the mercy of a great offensive player. And there's no answer for the King. The Pistons were guarding him with 4 players, and a floater looking to pick his passing lanes, in the playoffs--and Bron still was getting by them.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

And if Larry Hughes, Shannon Brown, Damon Jones, or David Wesley--if any of them don't suck next year, the Cavs will be nigh impossible to stop.


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## Goubot (Aug 16, 2006)

Cleveland only needs Hughes to show up close to his last year in Washington to be really scary. If that happens and the others can hit their three pointers (which is really the only thing Wesley can do at this point of his career) at a decent clip, then you're probably looking at around 60 wins.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Right, and PJ, Ben, and Tyrus don't replace what you lost in Curry and Davis. It's called post scoring. You've got none. Bulls are a jumpshooting team. Cavs just have to take care of the defensive glass and the Bulls unless they are red hot, will be dead in the water.



Tyrus Thomas offense was pretty good From what in the summer league. The Cavs Big men are not
better than the Bulls . Goodens career is a disappointment since he left Kansas. Big Z really declined in the playoffs . And Varejao . The only clear advantage the Cavs have over the Bulls is Lebron James. I give the Bulls the advantage because of depth


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Tyrus Thomas offense was pretty good From what in the summer league. The Cavs Big men are not
> better than the Bulls . Goodens career is a disappointment since he left Kansas. Big Z really declined in the playoffs . And Varejao . The only clear advantage the Cavs have over the Bulls is Lebron James. I give the Bulls the advantage because of depth


Depth doesn't matter in the playoffs when you play every third day, and the best teams only go 8 deep, if that.

And if Gooden's career is a disapointment then so is PJ Brown's entire career. Gooden is as good as Carlos Boozer, and makes like a 1/4th of the money. Verejao is better than any of the Bulls big men. And Zydrunas while he had a terrible playoffs, is one of the best centers in the league. You also left off Donyell Marshall who is also better than any of the Bulls big men, and if he is hitting his outside shot, makes the Cavs unstoppable in the halfcourt.

While you talk up Tyrus Thomas summer leagues, the Cavs big men produce in real NBA games that matter over the course of several years. A good summer league counts for **** all. If summer league is what we're basing things on, then the Cavs are going to be REAALLLY good. Shannon Brown looked great in his summer league. And if he brings that to the Cavs, he gives them a player who can play the point with Lebron and Hughes, who can defend three positions with his strength, and knock down the outside shot when left open, as well as finish on the break when passed to.

Daniel Gibson also looked good at times in summer league.

And I'd dispute the depth charge. The Cavs depth off the bench may not be as flashy as the Bulls, but it's proven. When you can come off the bench with Marshall, Brown, Verejao, Jones, Wesley, Pavlovic--you've got something. Marshall when he is on, is a bonafied sixth man of the year candidate, and Verejao may very well be the Cavs second best player.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Depth doesn't matter in the playoffs when you play every third day, and the best teams only go 8 deep, if that.
> 
> And if Gooden's career is a disapointment then so is PJ Brown's entire career. Gooden is as good as Carlos Boozer, and makes like a 1/4th of the money. Verejao is better than any of the Bulls big men. And Zydrunas while he had a terrible playoffs, is one of the best centers in the league. You also left off Donyell Marshall who is also better than any of the Bulls big men, and if he is hitting his outside shot, makes the Cavs unstoppable in the halfcourt.
> 
> ...




Gooden is a former # 4 pick in his draft class and his career numbers are are 12 and 7 thats disappointing for a high draft pick especially since he was drafted before Amare Stoudamire. Also Whats has Anderson Varejao proven ? The guys careers numbers are 4 and 4 . The guy is nothing special . Thomas will probally put up bet stats next year. Big Z and Marshall are better scorers than Wallace and Brown but thats the only advantage they have . Wallace and Brown are better Defenders and rebounders and difference makers. 

I',m sorry but that bench does not scare me at all Jones, Marshall , and Wesley all were disappointing last year. Jones Played better in Miami and Marshall is starting to regress . I don't
why the Signed David Wesley.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Gooden is a former # 4 pick in his draft class and his career numbers are are 12 and 7 thats disappointing for a high draft pick especially since he was drafted before Amare Stoudamire. Also Whats has Anderson Varejao proven ? The guys careers numbers are 4 and 4 . The guy is nothing special . Thomas will probally put up bet stats next year. Big Z and Marshall are better scorers than Wallace and Brown but thats the only advantage they have . Wallace and Brown are better Defenders and rebounders and difference makers.
> 
> I',m sorry but that bench does not scare me at all Jones, Marshall , and Wesley all were disappointing last year. Jones Played better in Miami and Marshall is starting to regress . I don't
> why the Signed David Wesley.


Varejao is similar to Shane Battier in that as a hustle player, he does things that doesn't show up in stats. And he's probably one of the most annoying players in the league, so it helps Cleveland when Anderson gets in somebody's head and takes him out of the game. I'd expect him to have a much better year this time around and he was looking pretty good with Brazil over the summer.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

I would absolutely take the Cavs frontcourt over that of the Bulls. You've heavily counting on Wallace who Pistons fans would have told you last year has fallen off tremendously over the last year. I like Brown, but I don't think he's better than Gooden or Varejao at this point in his career. I also think that the Cavs actually have greater depth in the frontcourt than do the Bulls. Not to mention I'd keep LeBron over any 3 players that they have.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Just because Gooden is an underachiever relative to his draft status does NOT mean that he still isn't better then a lot of players. He is easily better then PJ Brown and will likely be better then Thomas as well. Gooden numbers have increased steadily since he has been a Cav.

Also I would take AV ahead any of the Bulls frontcourt players including Ben Wallace. Not only is he rebounding force but I've been impressed with his offensive ability expanding.

Add that Z who frankly who as bad as he was in the playoffs was about as bad as Ben Wallace was. The Cavs exploited Big Ben right and left in there series when the Pistons had the ball. In addition we bring out Marshall. Add in Lebron who is by far the best player on either team I think it's pretty clear the Cavs have the edge in the frontcourt


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

In the normal game, Z. lights Wallace up like a christmas tree.


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## Samurai of Swoosh (Sep 18, 2006)

Shannon Brown, I will go on record, and say he will soon be the Cavs second best player.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

The OUTLAW said:


> In the normal game, Z. lights Wallace up like a christmas tree.



He looked awful in the playoffs . Z is a one domensional scorer Thats it . Wallace is a game changer who has won numerous Defensive player of the year awards. If Big Z is so good then how come Wallace has more All stars Appeareances. Wallace is a border line Hall of Famer but Big Z is a just a good scorer and nothing else.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> Just because Gooden is an underachiever relative to his draft status does NOT mean that he still isn't better then a lot of players. He is easily better then PJ Brown and will likely be better then Thomas as well. Gooden numbers have increased steadily since he has been a Cav.
> 
> Also I would take AV ahead any of the Bulls frontcourt players including Ben Wallace. Not only is he rebounding force but I've been impressed with his offensive ability expanding.
> 
> Add that Z who frankly who as bad as he was in the playoffs was about as bad as Ben Wallace was. The Cavs exploited Big Ben right and left in there series when the Pistons had the ball. In addition we bring out Marshall. Add in Lebron who is by far the best player on either team I think it's pretty clear the Cavs have the edge in the frontcourt



Theres a chance might be better Gooden could become better than Thomas If he is averaging 6- 10 minutes a game . But if Thomas is averaging 20-30 minutes . Thomas will Be the better player. 

Another thing Cavs fans are overrating Varejao . This guy has no offensive game he is a decent rebounder but nothing special . He looks like another Tyson Chandler Clone . It tells you how bad Cavs are Fans are Biased about there players . Its joke to Compare Varejao to Wallace , Because Wallace is a proven player in the nba . A guy who has led his team to a Nba title . While Varejao has proved nothing yet . We don't know if this guy is a better player thanTyrus Thomas or not


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Theres a chance might be better Gooden could become better than Thomas If he is averaging 6- 10 minutes a game . But if Thomas is averaging 20-30 minutes . Thomas will Be the better player.
> 
> Another thing Cavs fans are overrating Varejao . This guy has no offensive game he is a decent rebounder but nothing special . He looks like another Tyson Chandler Clone . It tells you how bad Cavs are Fans are Biased about there players . Its joke to Compare Varejao to Wallace , Because Wallace is a proven player in the nba . A guy who has led his team to a Nba title . While Varejao has proved nothing yet . We don't know if this guy is a better player thanTyrus Thomas or not


Andy has offensive skills. The thing is he has no plays run for him. He's taken the ball coast-to-coast and scored (good handles for a big). Even threw a few crossovers on a few plays and crossed the bigs up (it's not great but just having a crossover when you're big is generally enough to get the job done). Secondly, as a stand still shooter when give room, Varejao can knock jumpers down up to around international 3-point range. So the "no offensive game" comment you made isn't accurate. These things are observable to the naked eye: nothing biased about it.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

mr.ankle20 said:


> He looked awful in the playoffs . Z is a one domensional scorer Thats it . Wallace is a game changer who has won numerous Defensive player of the year awards. If Big Z is so good then how come Wallace has more All stars Appeareances. Wallace is a border line Hall of Famer but Big Z is a just a good scorer and nothing else.


Wallace has been a great help defender, but lets not get stupid (by the way how the heck can you have the nerve to call Z one dimensional when Z's defense if better than Wallaces offense). Z had a bad series (actually 2, he played poorly all offseason). I'm not saying that Z is better than Wallace, just that Bulls fans are overstating the impact that Wallace will have. There is clearly a reason that Detroit didn't mind him leaving. Oh, and heck no Wallace is not a hall of famer. If Rodman hasn't made it there is absolutely no possible way that Wallace will ever make it. Rodman was better defensively better offensively and has more rings.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

What I find hilarious is that a Bulls fan on this site would say that someone is being a homer and overating their talent. The Bulls fans on this site were acting as thought Chandler and Curry were both going to be hall of famers up until the day that they unloaded these clowns on poor unsuspecting teams. Chandler was just as one dimensional as Wallace is but he was taller and Wallace is stronger.

There's no real reason to argue with this guy Remy he clearly doesn't know anything about Varejao to begin with.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> He looked awful in the playoffs . Z is a one domensional scorer Thats it . Wallace is a game changer who has won numerous Defensive player of the year awards. If Big Z is so good then how come Wallace has more All stars Appeareances. Wallace is a border line Hall of Famer but Big Z is a just a good scorer and nothing else.


Subtitle this post: "I've never seen a Cavaliers game in my life"

Z's strength isn't his scoring. It's things like offensive rebounding. Providing an intimidating presence at the rim blocking shots. Opening up the lane with his jumpshot. Giving the Cavs a post presence. And his passing skills are some of the best among 7 footers.

He's a poor man's Yao Ming.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

remy23 said:


> Andy has offensive skills. The thing is he has no plays run for him. He's taken the ball coast-to-coast and scored (good handles for a big). Even threw a few crossovers on a few plays and crossed the bigs up (it's not great but just having a crossover when you're big is generally enough to get the job done). Secondly, as a stand still shooter when give room, Varejao can knock jumpers down up to around international 3-point range. So the "no offensive game" comment you made isn't accurate. These things are observable to the naked eye: nothing biased about it.


You also left out Andy's passing skills. He tore Team USA apart with his passing when Brazil played them. He has a really great understanding of the game.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Another thing Cavs fans are overrating Varejao . This guy has no offensive game he is a decent rebounder but nothing special . He looks like another Tyson Chandler Clone . It tells you how bad Cavs are Fans are Biased about there players . Its joke to Compare Varejao to Wallace , Because Wallace is a proven player in the nba . A guy who has led his team to a Nba title . While Varejao has proved nothing yet . We don't know if this guy is a better player thanTyrus Thomas or not


Tyson Chandler? Explain that comparison. Anderson plays nothing like Tyson. NOTHING. Have you ever watched Anderson Verejao before? He's a PF/C who has handles, loves to turn and face his man, and then drive past them. He has excellent hands, will catch pretty much anything you throw at him(in stark contrast to Tyson Chandler). He has a jumpshot out to 18 feet(in contrast to Tyson Chandler). He has a semblance of a back to the basket game(at least in comparison to Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler). The only thing he does like Tyson Chandler is block shots. But unlike Tyson Chandler, he doesn't get out of position defensively to do it.

Meanwhile Tyrus Thomas is Stromile Swift pt. 2. Maybe he'll be as good as Hakim Warrick.

PJ Brown is old. Ben Wallace is on the decline and really only impacts one side of the ball.

The Bulls frontcourt is a joke. I'm sorry you don't see that. But you will as soon as the Bulls throw the ball into the post on offense. And as soon as they start getting beat up by younger quicker teams on the glass.


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## Samurai of Swoosh (Sep 18, 2006)

I think the Bulls will be pretty damn good. They're about equal playing field with the Cavs. They made significant improvements to a system that was "Isn't broke, don't fix it." They added pieces to an already successful system and made it better.
Thabo = Pure athleticism, great defense, hustle, slasher
Big Ben = Low Post defense, rebounding, leadership, entusiasm, hustle
PJ Brown = Low Post defense, size, leadership, adequate low post scoring
Tyrus Thomas = Uber athletic, rebounding, shot blocking, defense, youthful enthusiasm and energy bursts

The Bulls will be a very good team. And they are pretty deep.
PG: Kirk Hinrich / Chris Duhon
SG: Ben Gordon / Thabo Sefalosha
SF: Luol Deng / Adrian Griffin
PF: Andres Nocioni / Tyrus Thomas / Michael Sweetney
C: Ben Wallace / PJ Brown / Malik Allen

10 to 1, says by a month or two into the season, Thabo will be the starting 2 guard because of his size and defensive capabilities. Ben Gordon will continue to be the 6th man, and scoring punch off the bench.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Well, we're adding:
Larry Hughes: Explosive scorer, thief on defense, can play two positions, good passer
Shannon Brown: Plays two positions, maybe even three. Strong, athletic. Good dribbler, good shooter. Finisher.
Daniel Gibson: 3 point shooting, defense first point guard, with quickness.
Anderson Verejao: One of the best international big men, who proved in the playoffs he's the second best player on the Cavs...now we get him for a full season.
David Wesley: Veteran who has been there, can hit the 3.

Larry Hughes to us is as important as Big Ben is to Chicago.
Shannon Brown is our Thabo.
Verejao is better than Thomas.
PJ Brown is better than Gibson/Wesley.

And we were a 50 win, Eastern Conference Semis team to begin with.

Plus I bet Lebron comes in with new folds to his game.

What's kind of cool about this season is that because of the Bulls hype, and Miami's championship, we are flying in under the radar again. I bet a lot of "analysts" don't even pick us to get homecourt. We can be a huge suprise this year, with only minimal improvements on last year.

And man. What if Marshall and Jones don't have career worst years?


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Tyrus Thomas offense was pretty good From what in the summer league. The Cavs Big men are not
> better than the Bulls . Goodens career is a disappointment since he left Kansas. Big Z really declined in the playoffs . And Varejao . The only clear advantage the Cavs have over the Bulls is Lebron James. I give the Bulls the advantage because of depth


Yeah, and Ricky Davis scored 68 points in a summer league game. But of course you haven't seen him do that in a real game. Summer league is practice at best. I wouldnt assume that's what he'll be doing during the season.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

Its true that cleveland swept us, but you forgot that the bulls team that you guys played during the regular season was a totally different team that ended the season on a high that caltapulted them into the playoffs. Up to march , the bulls were horrible and look very confused. I don't know what happened, but they turned it on at the end of the season. Many would say that if they would have had a good reliable defensive big in the miami series, they would have eliminated the soon to be champs. Now this offseason, they made some nice improvement to add to a very confident core of players. Many of you will say that we didn't improve by dropping Chandler and adding Wallace well you are wrong. Chandler was weak and can be knock off the block. Wallace is a beast and he is itimidating inside. 

Who would you fear most when driving to the hole Chandler or Wallace?

Another big difference between the two is Chandler had bricks for hands. He couldn't finish if his life depended on it. At least Wallace knows how to finish. Then we added two rookies who are very athletic and could defend multiple position. Plus Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, and Deng Should all come back much improved from last season.

The only two players the cavs have that will improve this summer is Lebron and AV.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Tyson Chandler? Explain that comparison. Anderson plays nothing like Tyson. NOTHING. Have you ever watched Anderson Verejao before? He's a PF/C who has handles, loves to turn and face his man, and then drive past them. He has excellent hands, will catch pretty much anything you throw at him(in stark contrast to Tyson Chandler). He has a jumpshot out to 18 feet(in contrast to Tyson Chandler). He has a semblance of a back to the basket game(at least in comparison to Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler). The only thing he does like Tyson Chandler is block shots. But unlike Tyson Chandler, he doesn't get out of position defensively to do it.
> 
> Meanwhile Tyrus Thomas is Stromile Swift pt. 2. Maybe he'll be as good as Hakim Warrick.
> 
> ...



From what I saw Varejao was nothing Impressive In THE Play offs ? HE a decent rebounder thats about it . His offense is Horrible . Thats why I made the Comparison . You Claim Ben Wallace and PJ Brown are getting regressing , Look at the Cavs Big Men . Z is one domensional and Marshall is not the same Player when he was with the Jazz , Bulls Raptors. His game went downhill last year . And why are you Calling Tyrus Thomas the next Stromile Swift ?. Just Because he played at Lsu ? That is stupid nobody knows how good or how bad he is , since he has not played a regular season game yet 
*******


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Actually the reason the Bulls did so well against the Heat was because of the lack of a big man. Otherwise they may have been tempted to play the Heat in the half court. Defensively with Wallace you aren't any closer than before at stopping either us or Miami's front court from scoring on you in the post.

And between Chandler and Wallace, who I'd be more scared of in the paint. Neither. Result will be the same. Two points for Lebron or whoever Wallace or Chandler leave to come challenge the shot. Possibly 3 point play. Chandler was longer than Wallace, so I guess he was slightly more imposing. But I really don't think Lebron's worried about Wallace. Plus I bet we go right at Wallace with Z or Gooden when we play the Bulls and try and get him into foul trouble.

Or Verejao. Andy is great against Wallace, because whenever Wallace cheats, Andy cuts to the basket. So he makes Wallace think twice about roaming.

And as for Andy and Lebron being the only players to improve from last year, I would expect Larry Hughes to improve from a career worst year in terms of injuries and just overall game. He was never right with that hand last year, and so hopefully next year he comes back as the player we signed. Which would be bad news for the rest of the league.

Also there's no reason Gooden can't improve. He's young too.

As a team I expect wholesale improvement because we are playing the same system for the first time two years in a row, and Mike Brown finally has his legs underneath him. I expect our defense to be really good this year.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> From what I saw Varejao was nothing Impressive In THE Play offs ? HE a decent rebounder thats about it . His offense is Horrible . Thats why I made the Comparison . You Claim Ben Wallace and PJ Brown are getting regressing , Look at the Cavs Big Men . Z is one domensional and Marshall is not the same Player when he was with the Jazz , Bulls Raptors. His game went downhill last year . And why are you Calling Tyrus Thomas the next Stromile Swift ?. Just Because he played at Lsu ? That is stupid nobody knows how good or how bad he is , since he has not played a regular season game yet
> *******


Dude. Stop posting. You've never seen the Cavs frontcourt in your life. Or you are blind.

Andy's offense is horrible? Again. He has wonderful handles for a 6-11 guy. Love to take his man off the bounce. He's one of the best passer's on the Cavs. He makes the best cuts of anyone on the team. He has a Rodman like ability to descern where passes and rebounds are going before they get there. He's got a consistent jumper out to 18 feet(possibly even deeper, but he never really sets up that deep). His post moves aren't refined, but he's working on it, and he's got the quick feet to be really good on the block.

He is going to be a star in the NBA. Everyone who watched the Cavs in the playoffs agreed that he was the second best player for the whole of the playoffs. His stats don't bear it out as well, but he's the reason that the Cavs turned the tide on the Pistons.

And again, if Z is one dimensional, then Ben Wallace is no-dimensional. Z passes, scores, rebounds, and block shots. What other dimensions are you looking for? He's a complete player. So stop making yourself look ignorant.

And Donyell Marshall would still start on this years Bulls team. Regardless of whether he's the same player he was for the Jazz or not. He's better than PJ Brown.

And I call Tyrus Thomas Stromile Swift, because he really only came on for one year, like Swift did. And the skill set he showed, was almost exactly like the one Swift showed at LSU. You'd have to be blind not to make the comparison. And I think it says a lot about your frontcourt that you are banking so much on a rookie.

We'd be pleased if Shannon Brown and Daniel Gibson were good this year, but we'd still win over 50 games without them doing anything.

Cavs are just plain better than the Bulls. We've got Lebron James and you've got Ben Gordon. When it comes down to the playoffs, while Ben is going stone cold, Lebron will be dropping triple doubles on your head.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Dude. Stop posting. You've never seen the Cavs frontcourt in your life. Or you are blind.
> 
> Andy's offense is horrible? Again. He has wonderful handles for a 6-11 guy. Love to take his man off the bounce. He's one of the best passer's on the Cavs. He makes the best cuts of anyone on the team. He has a Rodman like ability to descern where passes and rebounds are going before they get there. He's got a consistent jumper out to 18 feet(possibly even deeper, but he never really sets up that deep). His post moves aren't refined, but he's working on it, and he's got the quick feet to be really good on the block.
> 
> ...



You Must be watching a different player or game I Did not see none of those wonderful handles your talking about , Ben Wallace has accompolished alot More than Big Z. Big Ben has won Four Defensive Player of the years awards . More Allstar Appeareances Than Big Z and Big Ben has been to two Nba finals . Big Ben is a difference maker and Big Z is a just A good decent Center. You are just to Biased and Ignorant . Marshall may had started when Bill Cartwright but not with Scott SKiles
Since his defense is horrible . 

What so special Shannon Brown and Daniel Gibson ? Gibson was a disappointment last year and I Shannon Brown is a shawn respert clone. Since they Both went to MSU and they are Both short shooting guards . This guy will be out of the league in 3 years

Yea the Cavs Lebron but what else do they have ? Hughes was a disappointment again and Drew Gooden sucks and Big Z is Old . The Main reason why I think the Bulls will there Starting Lineup is stronger than the Cavs and the Bulls Bench is much Better than the Cavs .Just Because The Cavs have Lebron that does not mean anything . Look at T-Mac in Orlando Look how bad they underachieved .


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Yea the Cavs Lebron but what else do they have ?


What else do they need? His first time to the playoffs and he very nearly took the Cavs to the Eastern Conference Finals. What's he going to do for an encore?

The Bulls have a bunch of really good role players. But they're still too young to be a threat like the Pistons were.

Also what is the point in bringing up T-mac in Orlando? Lebron has achieved in the playoffs. The Bulls haven't. Bulls still haven't seen the second round with that group. Lebron has already been to game 7 of the second round. Honestly the team the Bulls remind the most of is those old Cavs teams that Jordan used to beat up on so much. Unfortunately, now Cleveland more closely resembles those old Bulls teams.

So have fun being Lebron's ***** in the playoffs for the rest of his career.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> What else do they need? His first time to the playoffs and he very nearly took the Cavs to the Eastern Conference Finals. What's he going to do for an encore?
> 
> The Bulls have a bunch of really good role players. But they're still too young to be a threat like the Pistons were.
> 
> ...



Like they say Almost does not count . He did not get the Job done . Almost is for Losers. It;s like me saying I almost won the Lottery. The Bulls Played The Nba champs in the first round. Whats your Point ? Another thing It did not take Kirk Hinrich Three year to finally make it to the playoffs .Also the Cavs playoff Drought was Longer than the Bulls . I don't see Lebron winng any Championship soon because he lacks the killer instinct .Look at Him in the Olympics and the WC'S If we had somebody Like Kobe or Ben Gordon they would won. Another reason why I dont see him winning a championship is because his support cast is sh"tty .


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Like they say Almost does not count . He did not get the Job done . Almost is for Losers. It;s like me saying I almost won the Lottery. The Bulls Played The Nba champs in the first round. Whats your Point ? Another thing It did not take Kirk Hinrich Three year to finally make it to the playoffs .Also the Cavs playoff Drought was Longer than the Bulls . I don't see Lebron winng any Championship soon because he lacks the killer instinct .Look at Him in the Olympics and the WC'S If we had somebody Like Kobe or Ben Gordon they would won. Another reason why I dont see him winning a championship is because his support cast is sh"tty .


Are you in any way, shape or form saying Hinrich would have lead Cleveland to the playoffs in sooner than 3 years? The revisionist history is amazing in that everybody knew Cleveland was completely terrible when LeBron joined and did not fault him for that. But in convenience, in the name of arguing backwards against time itself, now fault James for it. Ironic, to say the least. 

Lack of killer instinct? What specifically is he lacking? Your claim seems most vague, so vague infact that I’d be shocked if you could sharply argue your point. The World Championships is an entirely different animal in that: a star-studded team called for James to play off the ball as a distributor moreso than he normally does in the NBA, and the game itself is played under a different set of rules (which while LeBron is effective at, is not quite as effective as under NBA rules). You seem to be trying, even resorting to International basketball, to argue against LeBron and why you feel he won't be successful.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Like they say Almost does not count.


Whoa. Did a Bulls fan say "almost doesn't count"? This the fanbase of the "almost beat the Miami Heat in the first round"?

I think Game 7 at least qualifies as almost. Game 6 in the first round...well you've got a lot to prove baby bulls.

The Bulls have done nothing but lose in the playoffs. How many years will first round and out be okay for you guys? 

The Bulls only chance is if the Knicks blow this year and they get Oden. Otherwise they are the Memphis Grizzlies East. A "deep" team. With no superstars. Who can't get out of the first round.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> .Look at Him in the Olympics and the WC'S If we had somebody Like Kobe or Ben Gordon they would won. Another reason why I dont see him winning a championship is because his support cast is sh"tty .


Or if we had another Lebron James in place of Kirk Hinrich. Lebron outplayed Kirk in the WCs, just like he does everyday of his life.

And face it. The only two other players in the league who can go against Lebron...they don't play for your team. In fact, the other one plays for the other team that's better than you.

Hell, you guys don't even have a Vince Carter.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Whoa. Did a Bulls fan say "almost doesn't count"? This the fanbase of the "almost beat the Miami Heat in the first round"?
> 
> I think Game 7 at least qualifies as almost. Game 6 in the first round...well you've got a lot to prove baby bulls.
> 
> ...



Sure the Cavs have gotten out the first round But what else have they done ?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Sure the Cavs have gotten out the first round But what else have they done ?


The Bulls haven't gotten out of the first round. What have they done, period?


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> The Bulls haven't gotten out of the first round. What have they done, period?


The Bulls Lose two guys the first time and they played the Heat. The Cavs wouldn't beat the Heat last Year Either . I'm done talking to you for now . Lets Bring this topic up again In March or April . Because right now were are Both speculating things.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

mr.ankle20 said:


> The Bulls Lose two guys the first time and they played the Heat. The Cavs wouldn't beat the Heat last Year Either . I'm done talking to you for now . *Lets Bring this topic up again In March or April . Because right now were are Both speculating things.*


The best post in this forum. :clap:


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

He who has LeBron is superior.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

mr.ankle20 said:


> The Bulls Lose two guys the first time and they played the Heat. The Cavs wouldn't beat the Heat last Year Either . I'm done talking to you for now . Lets Bring this topic up again In March or April . Because right now were are Both speculating things.


Why couldn't we have beaten the Heat? We played them well last year. And they have even less than the Bulls do to stop Lebron.

We played the two teams best set up to stop Lebron in last year's playoffs, and he still went to town.


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## LOYALTY (May 23, 2003)

Lets slow down on this whole "beating the Heat last year" thing. In the long run, I think we would have lost to the Heat in the playoffs. The Shaq - Mourning combo would have dominated Z. (who had a bad playoffs last season). I like what we bring to the other match-ups, but the Wade factor was strong enough to keep the Heat ahead.

Would have been interesting though. I believe that this will be Shaq, Mourning, and Payton's final year in the NBA.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I dunno. They had nobody, and I mean NOBODY to even make an attempt at guarding Lebron. As much trouble as he gave the Pistons and Wizards, they actually had guys who could defend him. The Heat didn't. Posey is a joke when he tries to guard Lebron. And Wade is worse at it. It would have come down to Lebron vs. Wade, I think, and Lebron is better ergo the Cavs win.

Actually we all would have won, because that would have been the best series the NBA has had in a long time. Wade and Lebron were both playing out of their minds in the playoffs, a 7 game series of it, probably would have saved basketball.

And I think Z would have had a better time of it against Shaq than he had against Rasheed and Haywood, both guys who give him headaches. But the real matchup would have been Verejao vs. Mourning. That would have been fun to watch.

Oh well. Probably this year.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

mr.ankle20 said:


> Like they say Almost does not count . He did not get the Job done . Almost is for Losers. It;s like me saying I almost won the Lottery. The Bulls Played The Nba champs in the first round. Whats your Point ? Another thing It did not take Kirk Hinrich Three year to finally make it to the playoffs .Also the Cavs playoff Drought was Longer than the Bulls . I don't see Lebron winng any Championship soon because he lacks the killer instinct .Look at Him in the Olympics and the WC'S If we had somebody Like Kobe or Ben Gordon they would won. Another reason why I dont see him winning a championship is because his support cast is sh"tty .


BEN GORDON????!!!!?!?? That is the most ridiculus thing I've heard in my life. If the Cavs had an undersized chucker They'd have beaten Detroit? I realized that you were taking the homer side of this argument but at least I thought that you'd say something mildly intelligent as an argument. What little bit of credibility that you might have had died with that statement.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I think the Bulls will be the better team by around 5 games. I expect the Bulls to push for 55 wins, while I expect the Cavs to be at around 50 again. Head to head, I think they'll probably split. In a series, I'd take the Bulls in 6 games I think. This Bulls team is better than the Pistons team that beat the Cavs last year. That Pistons team was not as good defensively as the Bulls, and in that series in particular, was not as good offensively as the Bulls will be next year.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I think the Bulls will be the better team by around 5 games. I expect the Bulls to push for 55 wins, while I expect the Cavs to be at around 50 again. Head to head, I think they'll probably split. In a series, I'd take the Bulls in 6 games I think. This Bulls team is better than the Pistons team that beat the Cavs last year. That Pistons team was not as good defensively as the Bulls, and in that series in particular, was not as good offensively as the Bulls will be next year.



The Cavs this year are much better than the Pistons team they should have beaten last year.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> The Cavs this year are much better than the Pistons team they should have beaten last year.


Those outside the inner ring of the Cleveland faithful just don't feel that way. So we'll see. If Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall getting into better shape, Shannon Brown and Daniel Gibson giving us athleticism and actual talent in the backcourt, LeBron getting a year better, AV growing as a player, our rookie head coach getting a second crack at things, Larry Hughes (knock on wood) hopefully playing more games this season and being more effective than last year because his hand is more healed... doesn't help us win anymore games... then I'd be shocked. Outside of poor health, I think Cleveland very well could win a few more games.


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

Bulls/Cavs is the future, these two teams will battle for Eastern Conference supremacy for the next decade...right now, as in the "06/07 season, I think the Bulls are better, but LeBron will dominate this series in the long run.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> The Cavs this year are much better than the Pistons team they should have beaten last year.


shoulda, woulda, coulda. 3 one point victories in 5 game series in the first series over a defensively challenged wizard team and they *should * have beaten the piston? no reasonable fan could see this as possiblity, only homers.

the piston was better in 4 of the 5 positions over the cavs and even without ben wallace, they get 3 out of 5.

further, the cav isn't close to the piston in overall team chemistry or team defense; had it not been for whatever internal turmoil struck the piston last playoff run, no way does the cav take that series to seven.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

BULLHITTER said:


> shoulda, woulda, coulda. 3 one point victories in 5 game series in the first series over a defensively challenged wizard team and they *should * have beaten the piston? no reasonable fan could see this as possiblity, only homers.
> 
> the piston was better in 4 of the 5 positions over the cavs and even without ben wallace, they get 3 out of 5.
> 
> further, the cav isn't close to the piston in overall team chemistry or team defense; had it not been for whatever internal turmoil struck the piston last playoff run, no way does the cav take that series to seven.


On paper Detroit is so much better that it's not funny. That's why it's the ultimate tribute to LeBron that he can make his team able to beat most any other team by virtue of himself alone.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

BULLHITTER said:


> the piston was better in 4 of the 5 positions over the cavs and even without ben wallace, they get 3 out of 5.



But the Cavs can beat them. You know why? Lebron James. He proved good enough to beat the Pistons with only the consistent help of Verejao and the occasional help of random teammate A. That whole playoff series I was saying, all the Cavs had to do was keep it close until the 4th, because the Cavs had James the Pistons didn't. And that strategy was a defensive rebound away from being all it took to beat the favorites to win the title last year.

And if we had beaten Detroit, I really like our chances against Miami. We could have at least pushed them to 7, if not out and out beaten them. Either way it would have been the best playoff series in the modern era as Wade and Lebron would have been amazing.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> But the Cavs can beat them. You know why? Lebron James. He proved good enough to beat the Pistons with only the consistent help of Verejao and the occasional help of random teammate A. That whole playoff series I was saying, all the Cavs had to do was keep it close until the 4th, because the Cavs had James the Pistons didn't. And that strategy was a defensive rebound away from being all it took to beat the favorites to win the title last year.


no they cannot; lebron for all his greatness has not displayed the "killer" gene possessed by the jordans and bryants. he wants to play the right way, allowing his teammates to be in the game with him, which doesn't allow for him to totally dominate as the aforementioned would. a 50 spot to take the series is what bryant or jordan would do; james hasn't shown that mentality.

will he get it? i don't know; but the longer the cleveland roster is deficient of quality support beyond the brittle hughes, lebron carrying his team is only going to break the hearts of the cleveland faithful, because he's going to fail more than he succeeds.

kevin mchale put it nicely during the celtic dominance over jordan's bulls of the 80's; one guy is usually not going to beat five. 

that still holds true today.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

BULLHITTER said:


> no they cannot; lebron for all his greatness has not displayed the "killer" gene possessed by the jordans and bryants. he wants to play the right way, allowing his teammates to be in the game with him, which doesn't allow for him to totally dominate as the aforementioned would. a 50 spot to take the series is what bryant or jordan would do; james hasn't shown that mentality.
> 
> will he get it? i don't know; but the longer the cleveland roster is deficient of quality support beyond the brittle hughes, lebron carrying his team is only going to break the hearts of the cleveland faithful, because he's going to fail more than he succeeds.
> 
> ...


The killer gene you take of is vague and nothing you can quantify or even to begin to hammer down in a specific manner. LeBron's won games through a combination of passing and hitting game winning shots, with his true nature remaining as a 50/50 pass/shoot player. Kobe and Jordan manifest themselves more as shooters in trying times, while James shifts back and forth. 

Hughes and Z staying afloat is the help LeBron's going to need. If Drew plays the regular season like he's played in the preseason and if AV takes his game to another level, great. But LeBron is going to need his SG and C to stay solid. That's the help he needs right there.


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