# Summer League : Livingston



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

ahh here we go again, 

from an espn article 

"My disappointments: Al Jefferson and Shaun Livingston

*From summer-league returnees as touted as these two, against competition like this, you expect domination ... or something close.

You definitely don't expect eight turnovers and 4-for-15 shooting from Livingston in the Clippers' loss Saturday to Golden State.*

Nor do you expect Jefferson, after complying with his bosses' wishes and shedding some weight, to total just 19 points in his first two outings and give the impression that he's made no real progress in his game since his first summer league back in 2004.


and well i havent payed very very close attention to the vegas summer league, but next thing i know i got to the Clippers site and Daniel Ewing has 21 pts???
once again, i ask all of those who think Livingston is the future of anything....if he doesnt atleast have a mediocre season, if he plays a full year, should we get rid of him?? 
*i think Daniel Ewing is a better PG, since the first day i saw him play...i hope im wrong...but Livingston wont do much in his career if he continues to shoot as horrible as he does.....


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

Too early to tell, but having seen Livingston play this year, I don't think he will ever be a scoring threat. And neither should he try to be a scoring threat. Of course he needs to be able to knock down the open shot and finish his drives, but that's all pretty standard- however Livingston still needs to improve that. It's strange, his free throw shooting form as I recall is pretty textbook solid. Should translate into better jump shots, but his jump shot form looks hesitant.


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

It was one game, and it really didn't seem like Livingston was trying that hard. If he played like that for a week during the regular season, then It'd be more cause for concern.


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

ElMarro does make a good point on how much Shaun must produce this year. After a good chunk of playing time and into the playoffs, along with help from Cassell, I expect nothing less than a solid season from Livingston next year. Sorry, but talent and potential can only go so far.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

universal! said:


> ElMarro does make a good point on how much Shaun must produce this year. After a good chunk of playing time and into the playoffs, along with help from Cassell, I expect nothing less than a solid season from Livingston next year. Sorry, but talent and potential can only go so far.


Shaun Livingston= pure passing point guard, If he can stay healty I can definitly see him starting late in the season and putting up big numbers, but eight to is pretty bad but alot of player have been making alot of to this summer league, so maybe it's not just him.


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## marbinski (Aug 16, 2005)

It only has been one game..but just for reference Livy is working on his jump shot. He's attempting to shoot a different way other than the way he's been shooting all his life. Therefore, it will take some time before he actually becomes a huge threat. But I also remember reading about his opinions about cassel and how he can only learn so much from him because Sam is smaller and needs to be crafty in order to succeed, and how he has to utilize his height to take advantage of his opponents. 

I think Shaun will have a better season this year, because he has been working hard since the season ended. I have a friend that works at the Spectrum Club and has spotted him several times w/ EB and others pushing up weights and shooting around.

I have no doubt he will shine this year...


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

we don't have nothing to worry about. the kid will be ready when the season starts. honestly though, i think his bulking up is more important than his shot. he wasn't that bad, just lacked the confidence to shoot it.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

well...lets hope he plays a full year, and lets say he does, and he doesnt make an impact atleast in the assist department...taht everyone expects him to...what should we do?


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

even in limited minutes, he was getting more assists(per game) than cassell, and a lot of the other pg's in the league, i don't think assist totals will even be a problem. the injury bug, and confidence is what concerns me the most.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Maybe the Suns and Clips could work out a deal for Livngston.
My God he be good in the Suns system. Yeah, he would have to improve his jumpshot but he still be good.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Dr.Seuss said:


> Maybe the Suns and Clips could work out a deal for Livngston.
> My God he be good in the Suns system. Yeah, he would have to improve his jumpshot but he still be good.



no. no. no. no. no...............


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Dr.Seuss said:


> Maybe the Suns and Clips could work out a deal for Livngston.
> .



You joking? That's not happening. Livingston is untouchable. They need to take the bad for right now before they give up on him.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Dissonance19 said:


> You joking? That's not happening. Livingston is untouchable. They need to take the bad for right now before they give up on him.



thank you. the voice of reason right there.


livingston is to us, what amare is to you guys.


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## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

At most, 2 seasons left to prove himself.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

cadarn said:


> At most, 2 seasons left to prove himself.



more than enough time.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

the trade talk has me curious about one thing. would either side agree to a nash/livingston deal straight up? disregard cassell for a second. what do you guys think? personally, i would not like it. any more clippers/suns fans want to contribute their two cents?


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

bootstrenf said:


> the trade talk has me curious about one thing. would either side agree to a nash/livingston deal straight up? disregard cassell for a second. what do you guys think? personally, i would not like it. any more clippers/suns fans want to contribute their two cents?



I wouldn't do it. Then we have no PG till the future. I'd rather win now.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

you kind of have to win now cause of nash's age, right? with livingston for nash, you get that age problem out of the way, and imagine how good a lineup of: 

pg:livingston
sg:bell
sf: marion
pf: diaw
c: amare

would be next year, or even this upcoming season. 

one thing with nash though, is that you don't have to imagine anything or put your hopes on potential cause everyone already knows what they are getting from nash.

i get a feeling that clippers fans are gonna say no to the trade, and so will the suns fans.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

bootstrenf said:


> you kind of have to win now cause of nash's age, right? with livingston for nash, you get that age problem out of the way, and imagine how good a lineup of:
> 
> pg:livingston
> sg:bell
> ...



True. We won't have to worry about winning now, and that is a good looking lineup but I don't wanna wait for potential. And as you said, we know what we get with Nash too. 

You would also have to throw in something else to match salaries too so, it wouldn't just be Livingston. But yeah, I'd be surprised if anyone says yes to this.


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

If it were possible to do a straight Livingston for Nash trade, I'd _probably_ do it..... the addition of Nash on the Clips would make them legitimate contenders for the title immediately.

Still, I'd have to think carefully about it. Potential is always a tricky thing to deal with.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

yea i give it 2 years and if Livingston hasnt atleast earned a starting spot...and be productive while at it i say get rid of him, we cant be riding his "potential" for the next 5 years he has to get better soon...
"If it were possible to do a straight Livingston for Nash trade, I'd probably do it..... "

i hate Steve Nash, but i doubt the Suns would be stupid enough to do that, that would be the biggest lop sided trade ever, i would do that in a heartbeat


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Here we go again. The Livy bashers are coming out early this year. We are all basing Livy's upcoming year on a meaningless Summer League Game. Take a look at the last 25 games of last year and the Clips playoff run. Livy showed huge improvements. His jumper improved and he started to penetrate to the hoop. The fact that he took 15 shots in the Summer League Game is showing that he has gained confidence in his offensive game. Yeah the results werent there but we cant expect him to go 10-15 fgs every night. He is just not that type of player. He can be a PG who averages double/double every night. I dont see any reason once he gets his starter minutes he can average 10 ppg 10 asst and 5 rebs a game.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

DaFranchise said:


> Here we go again. The Livy bashers are coming out early this year. We are all basing Livy's upcoming year on a meaningless Summer League Game. Take a look at the last 25 games of last year and the Clips playoff run. Livy showed huge improvements. His jumper improved and he started to penetrate to the hoop. The fact that he took 15 shots in the Summer League Game is showing that he has gained confidence in his offensive game. Yeah the results werent there but we cant expect him to go 10-15 fgs every night. He is just not that type of player. He can be a PG who averages double/double every night. I dont see any reason once he gets his starter minutes he can average 10 ppg 10 asst and 5 rebs a game.



calm down. i would not trade livy for nash. you didn't read my earlier post? i would not trade livy for anyone besides lebron. maybe wade. maybe dwight. maybe bosh. maybe paul.

lebron is the only definite that i would trade livy for.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> calm down. i would not trade livy for nash. you didn't read my earlier post? i would not trade livy for anyone besides lebron. maybe wade. maybe dwight. maybe bosh. maybe paul.
> 
> lebron is the only definite that i would trade livy for.


My comments werent toward you or I would have quoted you.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

with the clipper medical training staff, nash would probably miss 80% of the season with us. lol


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

DaFranchise said:


> My comments werent toward you or I would have quoted you.



understood.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

yamaneko said:


> with the clipper medical training staff, nash would probably miss 80% of the season with us. lol



are we known to have a crappy medical staff? i never knew that.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

clipper fans talk about it year in and year out, how we seem to have the most injuries around, and how minor injuries seem to take our players a lot more time to heal than other teams. The biggest thing was last year, when they misdiagnosed livingstons preseason problem, and had him running drills and stuff that actually made his back worse, casuing him to miss more games. 

Im not saying im a doctor, but it seems like the consensous on the message boards is that we have a below average training staff.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> clipper fans talk about it year in and year out, how we seem to have the most injuries around, and how minor injuries seem to take our players a lot more time to heal than other teams. The biggest thing was last year, when they misdiagnosed livingstons preseason problem, and had him running drills and stuff that actually made his back worse, casuing him to miss more games.
> 
> Im not saying im a doctor, but it seems like the consensous on the message boards is that we have a below average training staff.


Don't forget Maggette's torn tendon that the medical staff first diagnosed as a "sprain" and said it was ok for him to play through the pain... we all know how well that one turned out...


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## choiboi46 (Jan 12, 2006)

Let's trade our medical staff too then


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## El chido (Dec 21, 2005)

Does anybody know if Livi will be playing in the next two games of the summer league?

Go Clippers Go :banana: :banana: :banana:


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> with the clipper medical training staff, nash would probably miss 80% of the season with us. lol


Jajajaja
:biggrin:


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

i know its early in his career...but im hoping the Livingston story doesnt pan out much like Darius Miles did with the Clippers or even Olowokandi for that matter, they talked about their potential on a game to game basis....and where are they now...


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> i know its early in his career...but im hoping the Livingston story doesnt pan out much like Darius Miles did with the Clippers or even Olowokandi for that matter, they talked about their potential on a game to game basis....and where are they now...


First of all Miles was great with the Clips and he didnt turn out bad until we traded him to the Cavs. Miles was never a disappointment to the Clips. As for the Kandi man, I cant defend that moron but after 3 years Clips management knew that they made a mistake and let him go.


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

Miles was entertaining on the Clips, but he was pretty one dimensional. He didn't need to do alot of things during that time- though I do think if he had stayed on the Clips his development might have gone smoother.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

universal! said:


> Miles was entertaining on the Clips, but he was pretty one dimensional. He didn't need to do alot of things during that time- though I do think if he had stayed on the Clips his development might have gone smoother.


Very true..Miles was one dimensional but lets not forget that he came straight out of high school. My point is that he was never a bust while playing with the Clips. He never did improve once we traded him for Dre.


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

I suppose Miles couldn't be a bust because the Clips traded him before there was enough time to determine whether or not he was a bust. Can't say he disappointed because he did what people expected him to be coming in from high school as a rookie + 2nd year. 

Actually can't really say Mile's a bust just yet, since he's young and not too bad a player. Might have the attitude problems and poor work ethic = slow, poor development, but I just think Miles needs to find a good situation.


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