# Marvin Williams - Is he that good



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I know that all the mocks show him picked 1st or second, but is he really that great of a prospect? Watching green in the dunk contest and the McD game I see that he really has all the tools to become a superstar (not that he will, just that he has all the tools) but Williams has not impressed me as much as he has everyone else. I have only seen a game and a half of Williams this year, so perhaps I just saw the wrong games.

Please explain what is so special about Williams. I am not trying to knock him, I just have not seen him enough. If everyone nationwide sees him as a top two pick he has to be good. 

If the Blazers get the 1st pick, who should they choose
Bogut
Williams
Paul
Gay
Green


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

thylo said:


> I know that all the mocks show him picked 1st or second, but is he really that great of a prospect? Watching green in the dunk contest and the McD game I see that he really has all the tools to become a superstar (not that he will, just that he has all the tools) but Williams has not impressed me as much as he has everyone else. I have only seen a game and a half of Williams this year, so perhaps I just saw the wrong games.
> 
> Please explain what is so special about Williams. I am not trying to knock him, I just have not seen him enough. If everyone nationwide sees him as a top two pick he has to be good.
> 
> ...


Its hard for Marvin to showcase all he has got when he is on the most talented and deepest team in the land. He is extremely versitle and could possibly play the 2 3 or 4 spots on the court at any one time.

If we got the #1 pick, I would take Bogut or Marvin.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

MAS RipCity said:


> Its hard for Marvin to showcase all he has got when he is on the most talented and deepest team in the land. He is extremely versitle and could possibly play the 2 3 or 4 spots on the court at any one time.
> 
> If we got the #1 pick, I would take Bogut or Marvin.


 Could he really play the SG spot, I heard that he was SF mostly with some PF potential. Kind of like a Rashad Lewis. Has he played any SG in college?


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

I wouldn't want him on the court for extended minutes at the 2 guard slot, but if we wanted to go big/long, I don't see why not. He has shown colligete 3 point range.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Marvin Williams looks pretty damn good to me.


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## sanfranduck (Jan 31, 2005)

Rashard Lewis is actually a good comparison but Williams is more of a hustle player and a fabulous passer for his size. He doesn't play much post-up game, but is very athletic (big surprise there) and can score from all over the court. UNC is so freaking talented in their starting 5 that he's like Luol deng was last year, he just isn't asked to do as much as can do for that team because they don't need it. I'd take him over Bogut in a heartbeat and to me he's a top-3 pick. He's supposed to be a ferocious competitor.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

MAS RipCity said:


> I wouldn't want him on the court for extended minutes at the 2 guard slot, but if we wanted to go big/long, I don't see why not. He has shown colligete 3 point range.


 My worry would not be Williams hitting the outside shot. it would be if he was quick enough to gaurd a SG and play help D on the PG. Thats where the problem lies. Bogut can shoot the three but that dose not mean that he could play SG.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Williams is probably the only player in this draft that has superstar potential. Bogut is very good but I dont think he has the sky-is-the-limit upside like Williams.


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## theGame (Feb 19, 2005)

Marvin Williams actually reminds me of a SF version of Chris Webber.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

tlong said:


> Marvin Williams looks pretty damn good to me.


Is he the next Al Jefferson?


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## YardApe (Mar 10, 2005)

Has Williams said he was coming out? From all that I've heard he wants UNC to be his team next year.

Did he just change his mind?


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

YardApe said:


> Has Williams said he was coming out? From all that I've heard he wants UNC to be his team next year.
> 
> Did he just change his mind?


 No he has not changed his mind yet, but most think that a 1/2 pick will almost always come out early since there is little advantage to staying in college and a lot at risk. If UNC wins, then there will be almost no chance that MW does not go NBA, but even going this far means that he is already going to be looked at as accomplished at the collegiate level, so he will have little reason to stay where he is.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Fork said:


> Is he the next Al Jefferson?


Maybe if he's good enough. Here are the latest Jefferson stats since you asked...


Ranking of rookies per 48 mins played in the NBA:

Points: Jefferson is 2nd.
Rebounds: Jefferson is 5th.
Offensive Rebounds: Jefferson is 3rd.
Defensive Rebounds: Jefferson is 6th.
FG made: Jefferson is 2nd.
FG attempted: Jefferson is 6th.
FT made: Jefferson is 12th.
FT attempted: Jefferson is 10th.
Blocks: Jefferson is 3rd.
Efficiency: Jefferson is 2nd.


Not bad. Too bad we didn't pick him.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

tlong said:


> Maybe if he's good enough. Here are the latest Jefferson stats since you asked...
> 
> 
> Ranking of rookies per 48 mins played in the NBA:
> ...


Yeah, he would have been a good second pick for Portland. Too bad he was gone by Portland's second first-round pick.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

tlong said:


> Marvin Williams looks pretty damn good to me.


Bu... bu... bu... but, isn't he only 6'5", according to your "eye for talent"?:whoknows:


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

tlong said:


> Maybe if he's good enough. Here are the latest Jefferson stats since you asked...
> 
> 
> Ranking of rookies per 48 mins played in the NBA:
> ...


As we ALL know, "per 48 minutes" stats mean two things (no offense):

1. Jack

2. ****


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## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

big al is nice. marvin williams looks like he should be real nice in a couple years in the L, but at the same time I dont know if he merits a #1/#2 pick. But maybe this year cuz im not too impressed by anyone in particular.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> Bu... bu... bu... but, isn't he only 6'5", according to your "eye for talent"?:whoknows:


Clearly if Blazer management had my "eye for talent" they would not be in the predicament they find themselves in currently.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> As we ALL know, "per 48 minutes" stats mean two things (no offense):
> 
> 1. Jack
> 
> 2. ****



Perhaps. But they do an excellent job supporting my position.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

tlong said:


> Perhaps. But they do an excellent job supporting my position.


Let me guess, your "day job" (a.k.a. the time when you're not using your "eye for talent") is working for Fox News? You know... "Fair and Balanced"?


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> Let me guess, your "day job" (a.k.a. the time when you're not using your "eye for talent") is working for Fox News? You know... "Fair and Balanced"?


Better Fox News than CNN.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> Let me guess, your "day job" (a.k.a. the time when you're not using your "eye for talent") is working for Fox News? You know... "Fair and Balanced"?


 :cheers:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

CanJohno said:


> As we ALL know, "per 48 minutes" stats mean two things (no offense):
> 
> 1. Jack
> 
> 2. ****


That's not really true. A player who's good in 5 minutes a game is probably better than a player who's bad in 5 minutes a game.

Extrapolation is dangerous, and a player who's good in 5 minutes a game might not be better than a player who's only OK in 25 minutes a game, but per 48 minute stats have some value.

Ed O.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Is this the guy who just got 2 points and 3 fouls against Michigan State? Is the NBA really going to be that much worse than a college game?


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

meru said:


> Is this the guy who just got 2 points and 3 fouls against Michigan State? Is the NBA really going to be that much worse than a college game?




But....but....but.....Green and Morrison were both held scoreless! :devil_2:


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

I haven't seen much of Williams, so take it with a grain of salt, but count me among those that can't see what all the fuss is about. Looks like a solid athlete with the potential (ack) to develop physically, but he also seems a bit slow of foot, under-coordinated, and not much of a presence offensively. Looks like a mid-first rounder to me.

Dan


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

The monsters for UNC in the tournament have been Sean May, Ray Felton, and Rashad McCants. To a lesser extent, the two Williamses - Jawad and Marvin. 

Let's face it, getting regular playing time on the most talented team in college basketball (and one of the most talented NCAA teams in the last five years) is quite an accomplishment for a freshman. Dare I say, it's comparable to Zach Randolph breaking the rotation for the Michigan State team from a few years back. (Z-Bo was taken late 1st round, but he had "law enforcement issues"... and in retrospect, I bet there are teams who would have taken Randolph if they had it to do all over again.) 

M-Will is a little slight and is not a great post player, but has great athleticism, good shooting range, a handle that's good enough that he can beat opposing SFs and PFs when he faces the basket... 

If he's available when the Blazers pick (which will probably be in the 4-7 range, right?), I'd take him. That assumes he comes out, and that no other team snatches him up before Portland's on the clock.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

I want Bogut


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> "Asked Sunday if it's a safe assumption Williams will play professionally next season, his mother, Denise Smith, said yes. "If you're going to be a lottery pick, what choice is there?" Smith said. Williams, already considered a lottery pick by some NBA scouts before the NCAA tournament began, has enhanced his standing with his performances in the last two weeks." Chicago Tribune


I'm hoping Marvin is the man.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Taft has declared for the draft.....

Taft Declares 

The more potential lottery picks that declare the better for the Blazers...


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> I'm hoping Marvin is the man.


 Why are you hoping Marvin is the Man. Even more then when I originally posted this thread, I think that Marvin is over rated. I have heard lots of people say he has postntial, but potential only gets you so far. Potential counts with HSers because they have not had a chance to go up against top opponents, but in college they have. So in HS, you have to surmise that if a person like Green had an NBA body, can jump out of the gym, can dime the three, then he will be good in the future, but ionce you get a chance to measure a player against a higher quality of competition I think potential should become less important then proven ability.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

People arnt touting him as the top pick in the draft for nothing....In limited minutes he produces....I'm anxious to watch him tonight...


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> People arnt touting him as the top pick in the draft for nothing....In limited minutes he produces....I'm anxious to watch him tonight...


Except for one tip in, he looked like the invisible man tonight. Poor hand, couldn't create and not much of a post up game. I'll pass. This was a big game and he wasn't ready for it.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Marvin told coach Williams he's going out, after the win......


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Marvin told coach Williams he's going out, after the win......


So Marvin will declare?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

MAS RipCity said:


> So Marvin will declare?


yes he will. And this is what he'll declare.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

thylo said:


> Why are you hoping Marvin is the Man. Even more then when I originally posted this thread, I think that Marvin is over rated. I have heard lots of people say he has postntial, but potential only gets you so far. Potential counts with HSers because they have not had a chance to go up against top opponents, but in college they have. So in HS, you have to surmise that if a person like Green had an NBA body, can jump out of the gym, can dime the three, then he will be good in the future, but ionce you get a chance to measure a player against a higher quality of competition I think potential should become less important then proven ability.


Yeah, but the kid was only a freshman and he STILL put up 11+ points per game off the bench. Look at Zach Randolph's stats as a freshman. They're almost identical at 11 and 7 per game. Zach's stats weren't mond boggling by any means and now he's a borderline all star. If Marvin has the physical tools to succeed in the NBA AND he's putting up similar stats as Zach did as a freshman (on a better team) then he's a great prospect. 

Look at Sean May's performance tonight. 26 points on 10-11 fgs. Does that make him an NBA prospect? IMO, no it doesn't.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> Look at Sean May's performance tonight. 26 points on 10-11 fgs. Does that make him an NBA prospect? IMO, no it doesn't.


Sean May is the *only* player on that team I would draft. Everyone else looks to be your typical dumb athlete that our Blazers have been associated with for far too long. May does everything right despite not having the greatest physical gifts, and he plays to his strengths enough that I could see him being a very capable replacement for Zach. He was passing, rebounding, pushing the ball up the floor, being a rock in the middle on defense, and even orchestrating plays at times, telling his guys where to go.

North Carolina really deserved to lose that game in the 2nd half for how stupid they played (and I was rooting for them to win). Take May out of the equation and they're just a bunch of good athletes getting run out of the gym.

Dan


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

Fork said:


> Yeah, but the kid was only a freshman and he STILL put up 11+ points per game off the bench. Look at Zach Randolph's stats as a freshman. They're almost identical at 11 and 7 per game. Zach's stats weren't mond boggling by any means and now he's a borderline all star. If Marvin has the physical tools to succeed in the NBA AND he's putting up similar stats as Zach did as a freshman (on a better team) then he's a great prospect.
> 
> Look at Sean May's performance tonight. 26 points on 10-11 fgs. Does that make him an NBA prospect? IMO, no it doesn't.


You say that Williams #'s compare very well with Randolph's #'s, but to me that only hurts your point. Zach wasn't and shouldn't have been considered a #1 pick. Williams certainly has the tools to be a great player, but havhing the tools is only so good. Don't take it personal Fork, you could be right, but I don't see it the same way you do.

To be honest, the tournament made me second guess Williams and Bogut. Both should be fine players, but neither appear to be solid #1's. 

If we get lucky and get a top 2-3 pick, I would be in favor of trading it with a Blazer for a lesser pick (or multiple picks) and a SG.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

I got Bogut at #1 and Green at #2 for the Blazers. Hopefully Portland gets lucky enough to be able to get either one of them.


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

Sambonius said:


> I got Bogut at #1 and Green at #2 for the Blazers. Hopefully Portland gets lucky enough to be able to get either one of them.


 I'm near positive they'll be able to select Green if they want him.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Tince said:


> I'm near positive they'll be able to select Green if they want him.


And I hope they do.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Nash stated that he doesnt like this high school class......

Fans in general dont have the patience to groom another 18 year old high schooler in hopes of him being good 5 years from now.....


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Fans in general dont have the patience to groom another 18 year old high schooler in hopes of him being good 5 years from now.....


I personally don't think Nash is going to draft a h.s. just because he wants to pull a Mo Cheeks and save his own butt. I just don't think there is anyone very intriguing besides Bogut, Williams, and Green. I also think Green wouldn't take 5 years, he isn't a project like Outlaw and many other H.S. players were. The only thing Outlaw could do was slash and be athletic, Green can shoot with the best of them, he can really handle the ball well, and has amazing athletic ability. I can't judge on defense because I haven't seen enough, but at the same time and the same age, Green is further along than McGrady was on the offensive end.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Nash stated that he doesnt like this high school class......



Don't believe his statements to the media or things he might say to people from this board in an email. I doubt he's showing his hand to any of those people.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

Boy am I unimpressed with williams. I hope he can do well in private workouts so teams above us in the draft will take him so someone we want will get pushed down to our pick.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

Fork said:


> Look at Sean May's performance tonight. 26 points on 10-11 fgs. Does that make him an NBA prospect? IMO, no it doesn't.


Comparing Sean May and Marvin Williams is a lot like comparing Lonnie Baxter and Chris Wilcox from the championship University of Maryland team from a fea years ago. Baxter was the real horse inside that carried that team to championship, Wilcox was the athletic stud who captured the imagination of scouts. As it turned out, Baxter had hit his ceiling, being 6'8" and somewhat reliant on his brute force inside, he found few opponents in the NBA he could knock around like the skinny collegians he faced in the ACC. Wilcox has the athleticism to surprise people, and has shown enough in the last few years that he'll likely stick around in the NBA for a few years - but he may never be a star. 

Likewise, while May made a huge impact in the tournament, I think he may have hit his ceiling. He's a little bigger, quicker, and more versatile than Lonnie Baxter, so he may stick around, but like Fork (and unlike John Canzano), I don't think I'd put a whole lot of stock in him. 

Marvin Williams, could be another Chris Wilcox (borderline), or another Zach Randolph or Chris Bosch (starter material). It'll be up to his attitude going forward and the situation he lands in.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

After watching the championship, it became even more obvious that Williams does not have what it takes to be a star in the NBA. He may become a good player, but he does not have that "it factor" that should have been displayed in the tourney. That's not to say that someone like May will be a star, because I think he has big time limitations physically, but he has the heart. I just don't think that Marvin will ever be more then an average player in the NBA. Thats not to say he is worthless, because thats pretty darn good, but I think that with the first few picks you should be looking for the potential superstar, and I do not see it in Marvin. If I were a GM I would look hard at Marvin at around the 7th pick.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Public Defender said:


> Comparing Sean May and Marvin Williams is a lot like comparing Lonnie Baxter and Chris Wilcox from the championship University of Maryland team from a fea years ago. Baxter was the real horse inside that carried that team to championship, Wilcox was the athletic stud who captured the imagination of scouts. As it turned out, Baxter had hit his ceiling, being 6'8" and somewhat reliant on his brute force inside, he found few opponents in the NBA he could knock around like the skinny collegians he faced in the ACC. Wilcox has the athleticism to surprise people, and has shown enough in the last few years that he'll likely stick around in the NBA for a few years - but he may never be a star.


Boy, talk about damning with faint praise. I think "he may never be a star" is putting it a bit mildly. I'd say "collossal bust" would be closer to the mark.

But then again, Wilcox never had any skills did he? Williams is at least supposed to have skills. He may even be as good as Darius Miles...


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Your kidding right?

Like Tiago Splitter or Nemanja Aleksandrov or MArtynas Aleksandrov are better prospects? Give me a break, these guys are either hardly playing or posting pedestrian statistics in EUROLEAGUE!!!

Chris Taft? Charlie Villanueva? How do you know if they aren't really the scarecrow (no heart?) or Tin man (no brain) or both?

Andrew Bogut is good...

Chris Paul is a good PG but seriously overated....

Deron Williams is a good player...

Gerald Green LOOKS good, but he is just a HS player....

Judging Marvin Williams by 2 or so games in the NCAA tournament is pretty weak IMO. HE will be a good player, possibly a great player in the NBA, calling him a bust is A JOKE. Did you even bother to watch him play this year?

I'd trade up to get the guy. Williams and Bogut are the only two OBVIOUS players whom I think have "Star" potential.

There will be some others, but I think there will be a lot of whiffs in the lottery this year....


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