# Chris Paul's dirty punch



## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

straight to the groin of Julius Hodge, cheap shot he might get suspended for a game if it is ruled a punch


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Golden Boy suspended for a game? Pfft, they should have T-ed up Hodge.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Both of'em are jerks. I used to really like Paul. Guy seems to whine every game. As for Hodge, I've previously stated my opinion of him.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Came up with a huge game winning shot right there though...

Sadly they didnt count his pushoff.. Oh well!


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

It's too bad people will only catch the highlight of his game winning shot and not his putrid play the other 39:56 of the game. 

Chris Paul is not an All-American, is not PoY and might not even be 1st Team All-ACC worthy. 

He is a dirty, whiny, punk player though, and will probably sit out the first game of the ACC tournament now. The media coverage has really ruined his attitude.

(p.s - Hodge probably deserved it)


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## Middy (Jul 16, 2002)

http://forum.goazcats.com/showthread.php?t=27934

pics in this thread if you wanna see it.

what a thug.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

You guys are just haters. CP3 does no wrong. Push-off? State is lucky he didn't get a FT after he sunk that. Best player in the nation by far.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

It seems as though some people on this board have a vendetta against Paul.....Paul is only a sophmore and there is a reason his draft stock is higher then Feltons....Everybody get off Feltons jock...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> It seems as though some people on this board have a vendetta against Paul.....Paul is only a sophmore and there is a reason his draft stock is higher then Feltons....Everybody get off Feltons jock...


Are you condoning hitting someone in the nuts? I don't think this thread has anything to do with Raymond Felton. It's not like Felton played a good game today anyway.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Seriously guys, I'm not one for shameless self-promotion, but I think I'm in line for some serious rep points here. :wink:

I've been saying Paul is a whiney punk for how long now?

I love when I'm right.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> Are you condoning hitting someone in the nuts? I don't think this thread has anything to do with Raymond Felton. It's not like Felton played a good game today anyway.


Winners do anything to win....

John Stockton use to throw punches all the time.....

Isiah Thomas was one of the dirty SOB's out there.....

Danny Ainge would bite, head butt, scrape......

Being a dirty player is a reflection of competiveness...It gives guys with physical disadvantages the emotional advantage when they can mess with another players psyche......Personally I dont think there is anything wrong with it....


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## HogsFan1188 (Nov 24, 2004)

That blow about summed up the season for hodge. :biggrin: 


Is NC State even gonna make the tourney?????


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Winners do anything to win....
> 
> John Stockton use to throw punches all the time.....
> 
> ...


If someone hit me in the nads during a game, I'm punching him in his face. No place in basketball for dirty stuff like that.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Winners do anything to win....
> 
> John Stockton use to throw punches all the time.....
> 
> ...


I don't recall John Stockton ever hitting anyone in the nuts.

Have you been following the John Chaney fiasco at all? He told one of his players to go out and rough someone up, and he ended up ending the kids's collegiate career. Dirty intentional fouls have absolutely no place in this game.

If you need to rely on dirty play to get an emotional or psychological edge, you are at a _*disadvantage*_, not an advantage.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HKF said:


> If someone hit me in the nads during a game, I'm punching him in his face. No place in basketball for dirty stuff like that.


Not if you get seperated before given a chance.....Paul wasnt smart about it because he got caught...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

The Truth said:


> I don't recall John Stockton ever hitting anyone in the nuts.
> 
> Have you been following the John Chaney fiasco at all? He told one of his players to go out and rough someone up, and he ended up ending the kids's collegiate career. Dirty intentional fouls have absolutely no place in this game.
> 
> If you need to rely on dirty play to get an emotional or psychological edge, you are at a _*disadvantage*_, not an advantage.


Many players that faced Stockton have mentioned that he was the dirtiest player out there, he just went about it with out getting caught.....


There is a huge difference between intentional fouls and little cheap shots here and there.....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Many players that faced Stockton have mentioned that he was the dirtiest player out there, he just went about it with out getting caught.....
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference between intentional fouls and little cheap shots here and there.....


So what's the difference?

Is a cheap shot not an intentional foul?

Way to sidestep the key argument of my post.

Your golden boy Stockton used to do it, so that makes it okay.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Oh yeah, you also gotta love that flop by him against Hodge after that.. :laugh:


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> So what's the difference?





> Is a cheap shot not an intentional foul?


The difference is that an intentional foul is when you purposely try and hurt the other player on a play....A cheap shot in my book is a little nick here, or a nack there to try in get under another players skin.....



> Your golden boy Stockton used to do it, so it makes it okay.


Stocktons my golden boy? I wasnt even alive when Stockton played for Gonzaga....and I wasnt a Stockton fan when he played in Utah.....I'm a Blazers fan.....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> The difference is that an intentional foul is when you purposely try and hurt the other player on a play....A cheap shot in my book is a little nick here, or a nack there to try in get under another players skin.....


Sorry if I view hitting someone in the nuts a little more severe than "a little nick here, or a nack there."

And yes, a cheap shot is an intentional foul. 



zagsfan20 said:


> Stocktons my golden boy? I wasnt even alive when Stockton played for Gonzaga....and I wasnt a Stockton fan when he played in Utah.....I'm a Blazers fan.....


Well, being that you are quite the Zags homer, I figured you'd have lots of homer love for Stockton.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> Sorry if I view hitting someone in the nuts a little more severe than "a little nick here, or a nack there."


Didnt play competitive ball did you?


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Didnt play competitive ball did you?


Give me a break! What is that supposed to mean?

And yes, I did play competitive ball. 

And no, I never hit anyone in the nuts, and nobody ever did it to me. And if they had, they wouldn't have finished the game.

And when I play, I am _*too*_ competetive to resort to that crap. If I can't play a guy straight up and beat him, I don't deserve to win.

Can't you come up with a better argument than that?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

The Truth said:


> Give me a break! What is that supposed to mean?
> 
> And yes, I did play competitive ball.
> 
> ...


That wasn't an argument...

When I played ball, we had a guy on our team that would come in and do the dirty work....We played Thomas Gardner's, Jefferson team and he would come in and try and get in Gardners head....Often times it would work, but we still lost pretty bad....

Going back to the old Pistons teams of the late 80's early 90's, they have proven that it works....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> That wasn't an argument...
> 
> When I played ball, we had a guy on our team that would come in and do the dirty work....We played Thomas Gardner's, Jefferson team and he would come in and try and get in Gardners head....Often times it would work, but we still lost pretty bad....
> 
> Going back to the old Pistons teams of the late 80's early 90's, they have proven that it works....


I don't care if it works, there is no place for it in basketball. 

That's great to hear about the goon on your high school team. What if the same thing had happened to Gardner that happened to John Bryant? How would you feel about that?

Hey, but anything for a win, right?

And if your question about me playing competitive ball wasn't an argument, what was the point?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> That's great to hear about the goon on your high school team. What if the same thing had happened to Gardner that happened to John Bryant? How would you feel about that?


Difference is that our coach wouldnt publicly say it, nor would he call the other player a goon.....There is a difference between Chaneys goon throwing elbows to head and undercutting players on lay ups....Our guy would go in there and give him a little elbow check to the ribs, while the ref wasnt looking of course, or maybe a trip here or there.....

Look at what Bruce Bowen does to Vince Carter and other players in the league...Sure its cheap, but it is effective and it gets in the other players head....



> Hey, but anything for a win, right?


Thats the mentality your suppose to have....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Difference is that our coach wouldnt publicly say it, nor would he call the other player a goon.....There is a difference between Chaneys goon throwing elbows to head and undercutting players on lay ups....Our guy would go in there and give him a little elbow check to the ribs, while the ref wasnt looking of course, or maybe a trip here or there.....
> 
> Look at what Bruce Bowen does to Vince Carter and other players in the league...Sure its cheap, but it is effective and it gets in the other players head....
> 
> ...


And when did I ever condone Bruce Bowen's actions?

If that's your mentality, more power to you. I happen to think its sick. If you would intetionally do something that could cause injury to another player to win, winning doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does to me.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Being a cheap artist and a goon is never good. Sorry, I have sportsmanship. The most I ever did while playing competitively was get fired up and talk a lot of trash (usually to fire up my team, never against the other team). Trying to hurt guys or rough them up isn't basketball. It just proves you don't have the skill to win. Whatever it takes to win is not cool, if someone gets hurt from it.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Zagsfan is probably just trying to go against the grain to stir up drama.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HeinzGuderian said:


> Zagsfan is probably just trying to go against the grain to stir up drama.


Nope, I have always felt this way....It was installed in me by my dad....


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

For a person that has a ton of respect for Paul and his game I found this act to be deplorable. There is no place in the game for things of that nature. You beat your man with your athletic ability not your ability to hide "your will to win" from the refs. 

Your will to win in basketball should lie in your jumper not your jab...


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## VERBZ (Jun 7, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Many players that faced Stockton have mentioned that he was the dirtiest player out there.....


…in fact, in 2001 _USA Today_ ran a poll of then-NBA players…and asked *“who’s the dirtiest player in the league”*…

Karl Malone won with 61% of the vote…Stockton was next with aobut 19%...lol….

The whole “everybody does it/what’s the big deal” argument slays me, it really does. Just because it’s done regularly doesn’t mean it’s OKAY – just because it’s purportedly “widely practiced” doesn’t mean it’s excusable. Same thing with Chaney….I don’t CARE if coaches instruct their players like this “all the time”, the fact is that he got caught and that kid’s career is OVER.

These type of actions deserve the swiftest and harshest punishments available. I say that as a parent of a 13-year old budding player…..would I want MY son playing for Chaney? HELL NO.

Paul should sit out Wake’s first ACC tourney game. It’s only right….and it sends the proper message. Conversely, NOT sitting him sends the wrong message…


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## Middy (Jul 16, 2002)

what a nutty defensive strategy 

Anyone who condones cheap shots is a detriment to the game of basketball. If you can't win based on skill, then you don't deserve to win. When players resort to cheap shots the game stops becoming about basketball and starts becoming about who can get away with what.

Its stupid to argue that cheap shots are not that bad. Im sure that Temple kid didnt mean to break his opponents arm, but sometimes that happens when you play cheaply.

Anyone who would willingly hit another guy in the balls during a basketball game is a jerk, plain and simple. It may reflect competitive drive, but it also reflects the type of person you are. Athletics in general need more good young people to make up for all the thugs.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Paul was suspended for Wakes quarterfinal game on Friday.


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## Middy (Jul 16, 2002)

Im glad the NCAA is sending the message that this type of behavior is unacceptable.

I dont think that the penalty should be harsher because this is Paul's first offense. That beign said, I hope his absence costs Wake the game.


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## VERBZ (Jun 7, 2002)

Middy said:


> Im glad the NCAA is sending the message that this type of behavior is unacceptable.
> 
> I dont think that the penalty should be harsher because this is Paul's first offense...


Agreed, but they kind of had their hands tied on that one, didn't they? Precedent was already set, I thought....I can’t recall WHO exactly, but last year I think this same thing happened (in fact, didn’t that incident ALSO involve Julius Hodge?) and the player was suspended for one game. So I think the precedent had been set in that regard…

Nonetheless, I’m also glad they immediately took action. Sends a good messsage.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

zagsfan is a little retarded, so no one pay attention to him. Anyway good job on whoever said that chris paul was a dirty punk, i thought he was a good guy. What a punk, and did anyone see hodge get T'ed up for trying to help him up? what a messed up game. Player of the year? my ***.


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## wightnoiser (Oct 29, 2003)

Julius Hodge has been the dirtiest player in the ACC for the last 4 years (see Steve Blake and Daniel Ewing) and had to have instigated Paul for him to punch him in the nuts. Yes Paul has done some punk azz stuff this year but it's usually in the flow of the game (see the Stockton references) and never has been as deliberate as that.

Good to see Wake/ACC step in and suspend him for the first game of the tourney.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

VERBZ said:


> …in fact, in 2001 _USA Today_ ran a poll of then-NBA players…and asked *“who’s the dirtiest player in the league”*…
> 
> Karl Malone won with 61% of the vote…Stockton was next with aobut 19%...lol….
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. :clap:


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

On Thre3 said:


> Anyway good job on whoever said that chris paul was a dirty punk, i thought he was a good guy.


That would be me!


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

On Thre3 said:


> zagsfan is a little retarded, so no one pay attention to him. Anyway good job on whoever said that chris paul was a dirty punk, i thought he was a good guy. What a punk, and did anyone see hodge get T'ed up for trying to help him up? what a messed up game. Player of the year? my ***.


Telling people whether to pay attention to me or not on a message board.....I think that makes you a little "retarded"....


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Telling people whether to pay attention to me or not on a message board.....I think that makes you a little "retarded"....


anyone who thinks its "part of the game" to hit somone in the nuts is messed up in the head. i think 99% of people will agree with me.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I never said that I condone hitting someone in the "nuts".....But I definitely think that being physical and getting in people's head is part of the game....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> I never said that I condone hitting someone in the "nuts".....But I definitely think that being physical and getting in people's head is part of the game....


I think there is a difference between playing physical and taking cheap shots in an attempt to rough someone up, which is what you were advocating earlier in this thread.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Well Wake Forest suspended him, so obviously someone there felt that it wasn't appropriate.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Nope, I have always felt this way....It was installed in me by my dad....


You're a big man... a BIG MAAANN!!!

like Chuck Shadowski. Or the Last Boy Scout.

Anyway, the crowd was taunting him with "I killed your grandfather" who was beaten to death in 2002.

Not that Hodge did anything, but it was an ugly situation. I would not have liked to see that in the hood.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)




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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Cheapshots are a part of sports.....Its just the way it is...It has always been there and it will continue to exist.....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


>


What's your point?


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Midnight_Marauder said:


> Cheapshots are a part of sports.....Its just the way it is...It has always been there and it will continue to exist.....


That doesn't mean its right.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Who cares. That Jazz fan is right, basketball is not tiddly winks.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

The Truth said:


> That doesn't mean its right.



There are a lot of things that happen in life that arent right.....


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Midnight_Marauder said:


> There are a lot of things that happen in life that arent right.....


I bet you put a lot of thought into that response.

Classic comeback. Not everything in life is fair. What a simple way to look at the world.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Pan Mengtu said:


> Who cares. That Jazz fan is right, basketball is not tiddly winks.


I bet John Bryant cares...reckless physical play ended his college career.

Are you condoning making a cheap shot to an opponents nuts?


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

Pan Mengtu said:


> Who cares. That Jazz fan is right, basketball is not tiddly winks.


its amazing how people are just letting this off. saying its no big deal.

well i mean he only hit him in the nuts right?


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

The Truth said:


> Are you condoning making a cheap shot to an opponents nuts?


Yes. It should be called a technical foul, that's it.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

On Thre3 said:


> its amazing how people are just letting this off. saying its no big deal.
> 
> well i mean he only hit him in the nuts right?


Correct.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Pan Mengtu said:


> Yes. It should be called a technical foul, that's it.


But the reason we are discussing it is because it follows a pattern of dirty play that Paul is establishing in the ACC.

You could dismiss every thread on basketballboards with "who cares."


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

The Truth said:


> But the reason we are discussing it is because it follows a pattern of dirty play that Paul is establishing in the ACC.


Then he should be given a technical each time he does it, nothing more.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Pan Mengtu said:


> Then he should be given a technical each time he does it, nothing more.


And we can talk about it when he does it. I'm not really sure what your argument is.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

The Truth said:


> And we can talk about it when he does it. I'm not really sure what your argument is.


That smacking a guy in a groin is not an offense that deserves a suspension, and that it's not a big deal.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

..
When a player unprovokingly and intentionally strikes another player, he is going to be suspended.

If the NCAA were to allow such behavior, it could become a problem.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

i forgot, arguing with amare or pan is like debating with a 2 year old rock. no point.


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## VERBZ (Jun 7, 2002)

Pan Mengtu said:


> That smacking a guy in a groin is not an offense that deserves a suspension, and that it's not a big deal.


Good thing you don't work for the ACC or coach in it, then. Poor sportsmanship would be the norm, apparently...

It's not the fact that it was a crotch shot, i.e., WHERE the hit landed - it's the fact that the hit was _premeditated in the first place_. We're not talking about incidental contact here - it is crystal clear from the replay that Paul DELIBERATELY punched Hodge in the nads, that he fully INTENDED for the nut check.

Deliberate vs. unintentional.....that's the key. If the hit was unintentional - or if the argument was such that you could reasonably assume the hit was unintentional - then what you've said holds more credence. However, as stated, Paul CLEARLY threw the punch on purpose. The video doesn't lie, and neither do my own eyes.

And obviously the ACC agrees, since they suspended him. So THEY'RE not buying the "no big deal" argument, either.

I doubt those who feel that this was "no big deal" have _children_ who play organized ball...pretty sure you'd think otherwise if that was YOUR kid out there writhing on the floor in agony from an unwarranted cheap shot.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

It seems that according to this message board that ACC fans are relatively soft....You guys wine and complain about Chris Paul being cheap, Lee Melchioni flipping off the fans, this, that and the other......

Chris Paul is an effective player, that nut shot obviously effected Julius Hodges game which helped out in them winning the game...He hit him in the nuts...Who cares, you guys comparing giving a nut tap on the court to John Bryants Temple escapade is just silly.....Do you think a soft jab to the nut sack is career threatenting? NO. Do you think it got in Julius Hodges head? YES. 

As for the Melchioni thing...Give me a break it looks like he's not even flipping the bench off and even if he was who cares....Are we in the first grade? its a middle finger, we all have one....


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> It seems that according to this message board that ACC fans are relatively soft....You guys wine and complain about Chris Paul being cheap, Lee Melchioni flipping off the fans, this, that and the other......
> 
> Chris Paul is an effective player, that nut shot obviously effected Julius Hodges game which helped out in them winning the game...He hit him in the nuts...Who cares, you guys comparing giving a nut tap on the court to John Bryants Temple escapade is just silly.....Do you think a soft jab to the nut sack is career threatenting? NO. Do you think it got in Julius Hodges head? YES.
> 
> As for the Melchioni thing...Give me a break it looks like he's not even flipping the bench off and even if he was who cares....Are we in the first grade? its a middle finger, we all have one....


I agree. I live for the day when we were young teens and we sacked each other. I think the NCAA should condone sacking people, nipple twisters and atomic wedgies. And while were at it we should be able to spit on others too, because no one is really getting hurt. And I think it would be cool to if someone crapped on another player just to get in there head.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> It seems that according to this message board that ACC fans are relatively soft....You guys wine and complain about Chris Paul being cheap, Lee Melchioni flipping off the fans, this, that and the other......
> 
> Chris Paul is an effective player, that nut shot obviously effected Julius Hodges game which helped out in them winning the game...He hit him in the nuts...Who cares, you guys comparing giving a nut tap on the court to John Bryants Temple escapade is just silly.....Do you think a soft jab to the nut sack is career threatenting? NO. Do you think it got in Julius Hodges head? YES.
> 
> As for the Melchioni thing...Give me a break it looks like he's not even flipping the bench off and even if he was who cares....Are we in the first grade? its a middle finger, we all have one....


i consider using the middle finger and hitting somone in the nads first grade behavior, you are 19, but you sure have messed up morals.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I agree. I live for the day when we were young teens and we sacked each other. I think the NCAA should condone sacking people, nipple twisters and atomic wedgies. And while were at it we should be able to spit on others too, because no one is really get hurt.


 :rotf:


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Chris Paul is an effective player, that nut shot obviously effected Julius Hodges game which helped out in them winning the game...He hit him in the nuts...Who cares, you guys comparing giving a nut tap on the court to John Bryants Temple escapade is just silly.....Do you think a soft jab to the nut sack is career threatenting? NO. Do you think it got in Julius Hodges head? YES.


Anything for a win, eh?

Deliberately hitting someone in the nuts is not only a suspendable offense in college basketball, but its also against the law. "That's assault, brother."

So I'm wondering, where do you draw the line? Nailing a guy in the nuts is OK, how about kicking him in the nuts? How about hitting him in the face? Where do you draw the line?

I talked about John Bryant because you made it obvious that you condone cheap shots and dirty play. Do you think the guy that fouled Bryant meant to end Bryant's career? But when dirty play is allowed, an accident is bound to occur.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> Deliberately hitting someone in the nuts is not only a suspendable offense in college basketball, but its also against the law. "That's assault, brother."


Karl Malone should be in jail for life then for "accidentally" elbowing dozens of players over the years...

And every fight there has ever been in the NBA is against the law...Its assault....Should Doug Christie be in jail right now for punching Rick Fox in the jaw? Should Chris Childs and Reggie Miller both be in jail for hitting Kobe Bryant? Should Isaiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn all be in jail for winning championships while "assualting" people? 

We might as well play football in jail because everytime they tackle each other its assault....


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

> Karl Malone should be in jail for life then for "accidentally" elbowing dozens of players over the years...


If Karl Malone got run over by one of his semis tommorow, the world would be a better place. There's no room in professional sports for the outright thugery he brought to the game. I absolute despise that piece of trash.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Karl Malone should be in jail for life then for "accidentally" elbowing dozens of players over the years...
> 
> And every fight there has ever been in the NBA is against the law...Its assault....Should Doug Christie be in jail right now for punching Rick Fox in the jaw? Should Chris Childs and Reggie Miller both be in jail for hitting Kobe Bryant? Should Isaiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn all be in jail for winning championships while "assualting" people?
> 
> We might as well play football in jail because everytime they tackle each other its assault....


Well, I hope some of the people you play ball against read this garbage. Then they will know it's open season on your head, and you won't complain about it when they lower your IQ a couple dozen points...


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Karl Malone should be in jail for life then for "accidentally" elbowing dozens of players over the years...
> 
> And every fight there has ever been in the NBA is against the law...Its assault....Should Doug Christie be in jail right now for punching Rick Fox in the jaw? Should Chris Childs and Reggie Miller both be in jail for hitting Kobe Bryant? Should Isaiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn all be in jail for winning championships while "assualting" people?
> 
> We might as well play football in jail because everytime they tackle each other its assault....


No, they shouldn't be in prison...first time offenders don't go to prison.

And you still haven't answered my question about where you draw the line.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

The Truth said:


> No, they shouldn't be in prison...first time offenders don't go to prison.
> 
> And you still haven't answered my question about where you draw the line.


You draw the line after a ref calls a technical on you.....


BTW all those guys I mentioned have offended multiple times....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

blabla97 said:


> Well, I hope some of the people you play ball against read this garbage. Then they will know it's open season on your head, and you won't complain about it when they lower your IQ a couple dozen points...


A bloody nose or a black eye is a common occurence where i play basketball.... :mrt:


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> A bloody nose or a black eye is a common occurence where i play basketball.... :mrt:


What about swollen nuts?


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## VERBZ (Jun 7, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> A bloody nose or a black eye is a common occurence where i play basketball.... :mrt:


...where the hell is that, BEIRUT? Who you ballin' _with_, WWE stars?!?!

Perhaps you should question the QUALITY of competition, then....I've played competitively for 20 years AND coached youth basketball for five, and these things were never "common occurrences" and STILL aren't.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

blabla97 said:


> Well, I hope some of the people you play ball against read this garbage. Then they will know it's open season on your head, and you won't complain about it when they *lower your IQ a couple dozen points...*


I doubt that's possible with this guy :laugh:

Like many have said, I don't know who this guy plays with but when I play ball I practice sportsmanship and I try to show some respect to the game. There are plenty of ways to win without taking cheap shots and trying to embarrass your opponent.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

The Truth said:


> And you still haven't answered my question about where you draw the line.


I'll answer it for you: If it can cause an injury it deserves suspension. Hitting someone in the face can break someone's nose, jaw. That's not just physical play. Slapping someone in the groin to slow them down might be dirty, but it's not going to hurt the guy seriously. It does deserve a technical for two reasons:

1) It's a foul that's not a play on the ball. Therefore it warrants a technical.
2) It can, and does, provoke fights.

But since it's not something that is going to seriously hurt the other play or threaten their career, it deserves nothing more than this. Hitting someone in the face is different.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Pan, 

Whar are your thoughts on spitting on players?
What about going up to the ref and threatening him?

Should those only be technicals. Certain actions do not cause bodily harm, but deserve higher penalties because they are beyond what is accepted by society.

And in high school, I had a one nutted friend. True story, his sister had kicked him in the nads when he was younger and he had to have surgery to remove one of his testicles. (BTW, since we did not play basketball by Zagsfan rules, I was unable to verify the accuracy of this story) 

Or have you ever seen Josias Manzanillo get smoked in the nuts by a baseball about 10 years ago - took him out of commission for a few months. A crushed scrotum can take you out for a while. And a well placed punch can cause such damage.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Pan,
> 
> Whar are your thoughts on spitting on players?
> What about going up to the ref and threatening him?
> ...


No those situations warrant two technicals and an ejection.....

BTW did anyone see Jose Juan Barea punch (I think it was TJ Sorrentine) from Vermont in the face yesterday, when they were going to a loose ball.....Lets see if he gets any kinds of penalties, or if they'll just shrug it off since he's from a lesser conference.....


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Pan Mengtu said:


> I'll answer it for you: If it can cause an injury it deserves suspension. Hitting someone in the face can break someone's nose, jaw. That's not just physical play. Slapping someone in the groin to slow them down might be dirty, but it's not going to hurt the guy seriously. It does deserve a technical for two reasons:
> 
> 1) It's a foul that's not a play on the ball. Therefore it warrants a technical.
> 2) It can, and does, provoke fights.
> ...


You don't think hitting someone in the groin can cause serious injury? Hmm...


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## Ravnos (Aug 10, 2004)

Pan Mengtu said:


> I'll answer it for you: *If it can cause an injury it deserves suspension.* Hitting someone in the face can break someone's nose, jaw. That's not just physical play. Slapping someone in the groin to slow them down might be dirty, but it's not going to hurt the guy seriously. It does deserve a technical for two reasons:
> 
> 1) It's a foul that's not a play on the ball. Therefore it warrants a technical.
> 2) It can, and does, provoke fights.
> ...


You believe that hitting someone in the groin has no chance of causing an injury. Is that statement correct? Yes or no. 

Please respond.


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## Ravnos (Aug 10, 2004)

Bump for Pan


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## Ravnos (Aug 10, 2004)

Bump for Pan


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Ravnos said:


> You believe that hitting someone in the groin has no chance of causing an injury. Is that statement correct? Yes or no.
> 
> Please respond.


A hard punch, perhaps, though very unlikely. A slap to the groin, or a punch like Chris Paul, has very little chance of hurting someone at all, no. For a hard punch it would warrant an ejection, I think, but nothing more. This was just a quick punch that really only deserved a technical foul.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Pan Mengtu said:


> A hard punch, perhaps, though very unlikely. A slap to the groin, or a punch like Chris Paul, has very little chance of hurting someone at all, no. For a hard punch it would warrant an ejection, I think, but nothing more. This was just a quick punch that really only deserved a technical foul.


If that crap was allowed (without suspension) I'd like to see how quickly the game would devolve.

It is very simple, the refs have to keep the players under control and prevent physical confrontation. To say that a hard, intentional punch should not warrant a supsension is mind-boggling. How could the NCAA allow players to jeopardize other players seasons or careers. 

Just think about it. A bench warmer, knowing they will face no suspension, could go in and take out the star player for the opposing team. This is absurd.


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## Ravnos (Aug 10, 2004)

Pan Mengtu said:


> A hard punch, perhaps, though very unlikely. A slap to the groin, or a punch like Chris Paul, has very little chance of hurting someone at all, no. For a hard punch it would warrant an ejection, I think, but nothing more. This was just a quick punch that really only deserved a technical foul.


So it's just matter of degree? We should be able to punch people in the face then, too, as long as it's just a quick punch that's not hard enough to cause injury, right? And that punch should only warrant a technical. And we should be able to kick people in the backs of their knees, and karate chop their throats, and hell, why not body slam people, too? Of course, all these assaults should be carried out lightly enough so as not to have any chance of injury.

Instead of just asking the referees to toss out any player who throws any kind of punch, we should ask them to somehow evaluate the power of each punch and only toss the players who use punches that can cause injury. Allowing light punches to the groin, face, kidneys, will add something to the game, make it more competitive.


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## wightnoiser (Oct 29, 2003)

The Truth said:


> Just think about it. A bench warmer, knowing they will face no suspension, could go in and take out the star player for the opposing team. This is absurd.


Who cares if a bench warmer gets suspended... (See: Patrick Davidson)


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

wightnoiser said:


> Who cares if a bench warmer gets suspended... (See: Patrick Davidson)


Patrick Davidson did not punch Chris Paul.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

The most disappointing thing about Chris Paul is the way he bagged him. This is North Carolina, this is Ric Flair country.

Paul should have got his knees and lifted his arm below his crotch, Flair style. Now that's what basketball needs.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


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## VERBZ (Jun 7, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> This is North Carolina, this is Ric Flair country.
> 
> Paul should have got his knees and lifted his arm below his crotch, Flair style. Now that's what basketball needs.
> 
> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


LOL....I didn't know Chris Paul was a _"...womanizing, limousine riding..."_


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Ravnos said:


> Bump for Pan


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