# who dat



## pr0wler (Jun 8, 2003)

hi


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

So Chinese people are classed as white? (this is a genuine question)


I don't know if you wrote this, but I have one point to make - you don't.
I don't see where that piece goes. It just seems to say - there are way more black people in the NBA than white people.
And we all know this.

Sorry.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

You forgot to include the US school and athletic system in there. Nobody goes directly to the playground to the NBA. A lot of NBA players do not come from lower socioeconomic background, take Kobe for instance.

Truth is, if the kid can't go to a HS with a decent athletic/basketball program, he won't be recruited to a Div. I NCAA College because he won't be known. Athletic/basketball programs are crucial to the development of basketball skills.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

In Europe, they can go over and just become pro players at a young age. In the USA you have to go to school.

Kirk Hinrich is averaging 16.6 PPG 6.3 APG 3.4 RPG

Steve Nash in his 4th season was averaging 8.6 PPG 4.9 APG 2.2 RPG

There is still quite a good chance that Kirk becomes a better player than Nash. 

Gary Payton was averaging 16.5 PPG 6.0 APG 3.3 RPG in his 4th season.

Given that point guards in this mold seem to have their prime years from 30-35, whats to say Kirk isn't a legend when all is said and done? With Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Thomas, Noah to work with, when 4 years from now when Kirk is 30, and entering his prime, he will have a lot of beasts of players and offensive weapons to work with, and Kirk is a respectable scorer in his own right as well.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Spencer Hawes is here to save the day


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Mebarak said:


> In Europe, they can go over and just become pro players at a young age. In the USA you have to go to school.
> 
> Kirk Hinrich is averaging 16.6 PPG 6.3 APG 3.4 RPG
> 
> ...



This is the point where homerism proves that stats aren't everything when it comes to analysing players.
I think there are very few people, probably less than 10, who think that Hinrich will be better than Nash or payton were in their primes.
The fact that Hinrich had a better 4th year than Payton means nothing.

Of course, if he goes for 20/8/4 next season i'll look like a moron, but I doubt that happens (his stats, that is. Me looking like a moron seems to happen quite a bit around here)


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## Block (Apr 22, 2007)

tldr


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Hispanics are taking the whites spot. 

Al Horford
Pau Gasol
Rudy Fernadeuz
Sergio Rodriguez
Marc Gasol
Jorge Garbajosa
Manu Ginoblii ( I don't know if Argentia counts, I've seen him talk spanih many times)

the spanish phenom Ricky Rubio.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Um, they're all caucasian. (apart from Horford)


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## NetsFan (Aug 9, 2005)

spanish people aren't really coonsidered white as in race


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

lol @ listing Marc Gasol, yeah, take over indeed. I wonder who will be Jesús? Spencer Hawes or Marc Gasol.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Dee-Zy said:


> lol @ listing Marc Gasol, yeah, take over indeed. I wonder who will be Jesús? Spencer Hawes or Marc Gasol.



I'd take Horford over Hawes anyday.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

so would everyone else


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Burn said:


> so would everyone else



It's ok, kid doesn't understand the concept of sarcasm.


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## jdg (Jun 13, 2003)

a couple of nit-picking points:
- Steve Nash was not born just north of the border. He was born in South Africa, but grew up just north of the border (Sorta, I think Victoria is actually south of the 49th parallel)
- in response to different_13, chinese people count as 'non-black' in the article, and in life. However, that does not make them white. They are 'classified' (as terrible as that word sounds) as Asian.

In response to the article, I don't live in the States, but Canada isn't so far different, so I can kinda comment. I think it's often just a cultural/socioeconomic thing, like you said. Muscle types etc have something to do with it, but the international players are proving that this can't really be used as an 'excuse' by us white people.


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## dwade3 (Sep 12, 2005)

dude, almost every major sport has a GOAT that is 'black' (not just african american)

Boxing (Ali)
Basketball (MJ)
Football (Pele, if not Pele then Zidane is North African anyways)
Rugby Union (Jonah Lomu)
Gridiron (Jim Brown or Jerry Rice)
Baseball (Babe Ruth was lucky not to play against blacks in his day, and even then he isnt the greatest, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds all have the wood on Ruth)
Golf (Tiger Woods is, just as Federer is even though they are still playing)

so basically, its inevitable black ppl are the supremos at sport and will usually dominate over the athletically challenged white ppl, thats why black ppl play sport and white ppl do business


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

First of all - Dwade3, you might wanna check that last sentence.. That sounds kinda bad dude.


But anyway - my Chinese comment was merely in response to:



> Why the recent lack of success for Caucasian basketball players born in America? A 6'3'' white guy born just north of the border is a two-time MVP, a German PF is the reigning MVP, *a 7'6'' center out of China is regarded by most as the best center in the league*.


This seems to put Yao clearly in with the Caucasian players.. That's why i asked.


As for spanish people not being considered white as in race - why the hell not? They're caucasian, right? They might be tanned, but they're still caucasian. I see a distinct difference between spanish (or hispanic) people, such as argentinians Manu and Nocioni, and latins (or latinos, to make it easier for me to remember what I'm talking about), such as puerto ricans and other non-caucasian spanish speakers that aren't African blacks (I originally said *******, but i don't know if that's seen as offensive - I mean African black people, as opposed to, say Australian aboriginees etc)


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

different_13 said:


> As for spanish people not being considered white as in race - why the hell not? They're caucasian, right? They might be tanned, but they're still caucasian. I see a distinct difference between spanish (or hispanic) people, such as argentinians Manu and Nocioni, and latins (or latinos, to make it easier for me to remember what I'm talking about), such as puerto ricans and other non-caucasian spanish speakers that aren't African blacks (I originally said *******, but i don't know if that's seen as offensive - I mean African black people, as opposed to, say Australian aboriginees etc)



no.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

dwade3 said:


> dude, almost every major sport has a GOAT that is 'black' (not just african american)
> 
> Boxing (Ali)
> Basketball (MJ)
> ...


MJ is the best at basketball, yes. 

But as far as football, look at all the super bowl quarterbacks. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Bledsoe, John Elway, Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Steve Young, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

As far as where whites/spanish /mexicans etc. fit into society, it depends on place.

Like where I live in Wisconsin, the asians just assimilate in with the white people. The latinos who do not speak Spanish and the foreign (Europeans) also just assimilated with the white. Then the spanish speaking Latinos (mostly Mexican) just separated themselves from everyone else. There was an obvious divide between white/black, but the white/black still meshed with each other quite a bit, but the spanish speaking Mexicans did not mesh with either.

While in California, the Asians separate themselves into a separate group from the whites. 

It all depends on location. There is a LOT less racism in Wisconsin than there is here in California, and less racial divide. 

Thats why Yi would rather be in Sacramento/Oakland/LA than Milwaukee. In Milwaukee, he'd most likely just become a white person, while in California, he could keep his Asian identity, and he wants that divide from white people, therefore he doesn't want to live in Milwaukee.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Mexicans aren't in the hispanic/Spanish group.

Down here it's seperated. Like at my school, theres a side where whites hang, hispanics hang, and theres alot of african-americans, so they're kinda every else, and theres a side, where the Asians hang, theres not alot so they get the smallest area. Then theres a side, where everybody hangs, thats where I hang.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Mexicans aren't in the hispanic/Spanish group.
> 
> Down here it's seperated. Like at my school, theres a side where whites hang, hispanics hang, and theres alot of african-americans, so they're kinda every else, and theres a side, where the Asians hang, theres not alot so they get the smallest area. Then theres a side, where everybody hangs, thats where I hang.


What the hell is wrong with where you live. When I say there is an obvious divide, I don't mean they are separated into different areas like that. Thats horrible. I was just talking about a general tendency for who they hang out with and assimilate with. Not an actual physical divide like that. Thats horrible.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

It no where near as bad as it sounds, everybodys cool with each other, well mosyly everybody.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Mexicans aren't in the hispanic/Spanish group.


Thus confirming Paul Rodriguez's suspicions about Americans. :bsmile:


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Hawksfan, just saying "no" doesn't really explain what you mean..
What do you disagree with? What did I say wrong?

and ehmunro, i was about to say, if Mexicans aren't hispanic, what the hell are they?

Btw, is there a difference between "hispanic" and latin?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

The one peculiarity of Hispanic culture is that it's the most obvious expression of White Man's Syndrome (aka the aftereffects of colonialism). The Spanish look down on Latin America, within Latin America the Argentines consider themselves "white" and therefore look down on everyone else, Chileans are similar in this regard. There's a pecking order based on how white people are. Thus the Caribbean cultures get looked down on by the mainland ones (because of the higher proportion of people of African descent). Even within the Caribbean cultures there's a pecking order largely based on colour, the Cubans consider themselves the top of the food chain while _everyone_ considers the Dominicans to be the bottom of the food chain, and largely because Hispaniola was at one time a slave colony, and its residents largely descended from African slaves and Amerind tribes of the Caribbean basin (making them the least "white" of the Hispanic cultures). For example of what I'm saying, turn on Telemundo or Univision some time, watch one of their soaps or night time dramas, and look at the ratio of dark skinned people to light. Unless all those shows are filmed in Buenos Aires, something's askew.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Adam Morrison was the savior. He hasn't quite panned out yet. Kevin Love or Kyle Singler is your next beast chance. Give them a couple more years.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

B.J Mullen going to Ohio State, in 2009 is the best chance.

but he doesn't look 100% white.

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/bjmullens.html


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

NetsFan said:


> spanish people aren't really coonsidered white as in race


why not? i thought i being Spanish was a culture, not a race. there are black Spanards and Hispanics and there are white ones and everywhere in between. there's no shame in that. i have a friend who has blue eyes from Mexico. she calls her self a white Mexican. i consider Ginobini as a white Hispanic as well.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

I do love that the poster loved mentioning Wally World, because that's an example that fit his theory.

What about Jason Kidd?


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

NetsFan said:


> spanish people aren't really coonsidered white as in race



Spaniards (Europeans) are white. Hispanics (from the Americas) are mostly mixtures of European and Native American and African.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

Kyakko said:


> i consider Ginobini as a white Hispanic as well.


manu is of italian descent.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

This is stupid!

Yeah I consider Jennifer Lopez white, cause she make the white people look better.

SO when I fill out an application from now on, i gonna put, that I'm white. Atleast now I have a better chance of getting hired.


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> The one peculiarity of Hispanic culture is that it's the most obvious expression of White Man's Syndrome (aka the aftereffects of colonialism). The Spanish look down on Latin America, within Latin America the Argentines consider themselves "white" and therefore look down on everyone else, Chileans are similar in this regard. There's a pecking order based on how white people are. Thus the Caribbean cultures get looked down on by the mainland ones (because of the higher proportion of people of African descent). Even within the Caribbean cultures there's a pecking order largely based on colour, the Cubans consider themselves the top of the food chain while _everyone_ considers the Dominicans to be the bottom of the food chain, and largely because Hispaniola was at one time a slave colony, and its residents largely descended from African slaves and Amerind tribes of the Caribbean basin (making them the least "white" of the Hispanic cultures). For example of what I'm saying, turn on Telemundo or Univision some time, watch one of their soaps or night time dramas, and look at the ratio of dark skinned people to light. Unless all those shows are filmed in Buenos Aires, something's askew.



hmmmmm, someone with some education . . . how rare.

good points man, and just to add, we STILL live in psuedo-colonial times.

equally as curious (to me anyway) is the the disappearing black in baseball. thank god for matt kemp, james loney and russel martin.


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## bluecro (Oct 13, 2006)

You forgot Jason Kidd.


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> This is stupid!
> 
> Yeah I consider Jennifer Lopez white, cause she make the white people look better.
> 
> SO when I fill out an application from now on, i gonna put, that I'm white. Atleast now I have a better chance of getting hired.


eh? how's that stupid? so you'd rather lump everyone living in south/central america into one racial group? as far as i know, there are black hispanics and white hispanics and everywhere in between like in the U.S. there's also racism in south america between the races, of which both groups consider themselves hispanic.

the job applications are flawed, what they really want to know is if you're "american white" which is a different issue.


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## fiElDy (Oct 24, 2005)

bluecro said:


> You forgot Jason Kidd.


His father is African American


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> This is stupid!
> 
> Yeah I consider Jennifer Lopez white, cause she make the white people look better.
> 
> SO when I fill out an application from now on, i gonna put, that I'm white. Atleast now I have a better chance of getting hired.


'Atta kid. Play that race card every time. It makes you feel better.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Kyakko said:


> eh? how's that stupid? so you'd rather lump everyone living in south/central america into one racial group? as far as i know, there are black hispanics and white hispanics and everywhere in between like in the U.S. there's also racism in south america between the races, of which both groups consider themselves hispanic.
> 
> the job applications are flawed, what they really want to know is if you're "american white" which is a different issue.



we're hispanics, simple as that, not black or white hispanic, just hispanic. Sure our ancestor are black or white, but so are the african-americans, do you consider tham white to.


from wikipedia



> It is estimated that a significant number of African Americans have Caucasian and Native American heritage


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Jimi Hendrix, for one.

Btw, interesting fact about kidd, I didn't know that.


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> we're hispanics, simple as that, not black or white hispanic, just hispanic. Sure our ancestor are black or white, but so are the african-americans, do you consider tham white to.
> 
> 
> from wikipedia


mann... just think a little eh? 
the quote you sent from wikipedia don't mean jack to me.
words like significantly, virtually and nearly arn't inclusive. and even if there's one hispanic with all Caucasian dna or african dna, your argument is wrong.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

Most Spanish people (as in from Spain, the country in Europe) are considered caucasian.



> Modern day Iberians (Spaniards and Portuguese) are a South-Western European population, which shares its predominant genetic relationships with both Mediterranean and Atlantic Europe.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_people#Ancestry

If you're going to count Spainiards as Hispanic (or latino or whatever) then you'd have to include the Portugese, Italians, and even some French people.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> In Europe, they can go over and just become pro players at a young age. In the USA you have to go to school.
> 
> Kirk Hinrich is averaging 16.6 PPG 6.3 APG 3.4 RPG
> 
> ...


There is 0 chance Kirk turns into a better player than Nash in his prime.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> In Europe, they can go over and just become pro players at a young age. In the USA you have to go to school.
> 
> Kirk Hinrich is averaging 16.6 PPG 6.3 APG 3.4 RPG
> 
> ...



Your homerism... It knows no bounds...


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

lol, I sometimes entertain myself by imagining a homer-deathmatch between Sloth and Hawksfan.
With ballscientist doing commentary (and frequently going on Walton-esque ramblings about the Warriors)


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Mexicans aren't in the hispanic/Spanish group.
> 
> Down here it's seperated. Like at my school, theres a side where whites hang, hispanics hang, and theres alot of african-americans, so they're kinda every else, and theres a side, where the Asians hang, theres not alot so they get the smallest area. Then theres a side, where everybody hangs, thats where I hang.


I don't think a high school setting is an accurate way to judge things. Everyone's so concerned with their image and other trivial things in high school that people are afraid to associate with anything out of the 'ordinary'. Is it any different outside of your school? I really hope so.



o.iatlhawksfan said:


> we're hispanics, simple as that, not black or white hispanic, just hispanic. Sure our ancestor are black or white, but so are the african-americans, do you consider tham white to.
> 
> 
> from wikipedia



I hope you learn to never cite wikipedia before you get out of high school.


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

different_13 said:


> lol, I sometimes entertain myself by imagining a homer-deathmatch between Sloth and Hawksfan.
> With ballscientist doing commentary (and frequently going on Walton-esque ramblings about the Warriors)


you my friend... are a sick man.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

R-Star said:


> There is 0 chance Kirk turns into a better player than Nash in his prime.


I don't think he will either, I think Ben Gordon and Luol Deng are going to be the ones there to shine as stars, and not Kirk.

But I was just showing how the book isn't closed on how good Kirk can be. Hell, up until 3 years ago, Steve Nash wasn't considered that special.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Repped.

Nash is the perfect example of the situation making the player.
It's not just that it's a fastbreaking team (Dallas ran small-ball with Nellie), it's that Phoenix was the perfect situation - the team was built with him and Amare in mind, all the players fit perfectly, and they have great chemistry.

I never though Nash was that special either (mostly due to his atrocious defence ((at the time)), I like to see good defence.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

too much to read, but who cares? 
some of the most "exciting" players in the league are black, and nowadays almost none come from the hood or victims of "socio economic factors" and its hard to give an opinion without sounding racist but eh, do you really think we can have a player as exciting as Kobe be white...?? 
i mean dunking shooting...moves...total package....????
i doubt it .....
but i mean its an interesting subject.....


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

dwade3 said:


> so basically, its inevitable black ppl are the supremos at sport and will usually dominate over the athletically challenged white ppl, thats why black ppl play sport and white ppl do business


it may "sound bad" but this is the truth...


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

The game is evolving, players are quicker and more athletic -- the defenses are tighter and a lot stronger, add to that the zone defense. There is no place for the white american in the NBA. Put Larry Bird in the NBA today and he'll do worse than Morrison.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> The one peculiarity of Hispanic culture is that it's the most obvious expression of White Man's Syndrome (aka the aftereffects of colonialism). The Spanish look down on Latin America, within Latin America the Argentines consider themselves "white" and therefore look down on everyone else, Chileans are similar in this regard. There's a pecking order based on how white people are. Thus the Caribbean cultures get looked down on by the mainland ones (because of the higher proportion of people of African descent). Even within the Caribbean cultures there's a pecking order largely based on colour, the Cubans consider themselves the top of the food chain while _everyone_ considers the Dominicans to be the bottom of the food chain, and largely because Hispaniola was at one time a slave colony, and its residents largely descended from African slaves and Amerind tribes of the Caribbean basin (making them the least "white" of the Hispanic cultures). For example of what I'm saying, turn on Telemundo or Univision some time, watch one of their soaps or night time dramas, and look at the ratio of dark skinned people to light. Unless all those shows are filmed in Buenos Aires, something's askew.


:worthy: 

:clap: 

:cheers:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

gian said:


> The game is evolving, players are quicker and more athletic -- the defenses are tighter and a lot stronger, add to that the zone defense. There is no place for the white american in the NBA. *Put Larry Bird in the NBA today and he'll do worse than Morrison.*


:nonono: :whofarted


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

No way man. For the same reason Wil and Russel would still do well - greatness transcends time.

As it is, Bird's passing, rebounding, shooting and leadership make him amazing even if his athleticism doesn't.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Three words: Matt ****ing Carroll.


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

gian said:


> Put Larry Bird in the NBA today and he'll do worse than Morrison.


:banned: :upset: :stupid: 

that is the most idiotic statement I've ever read on this message board

did you actually watch Bird play? He played against guys like Dominique Wilkins, Dennis Rodman, James Worthy, Xavier McDaniel, Julius Erving, etc. You think those guys weren't athletic?


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## bluecro (Oct 13, 2006)

fiElDy said:


> His father is African American


True I forgot about that but still from what I understand Kidd grew up in a nice area. But good point


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

gian said:


> The game is evolving, players are quicker and more athletic -- the defenses are tighter and a lot stronger, add to that the zone defense. There is no place for the white american in the NBA. Put Larry Bird in the NBA today and he'll do worse than Morrison.


So you think there is some sort of genetic difference between whites from American versus Europe?? Who are these great athletic Europeans I'm not aware of?

I'm reminded of that Jason Kapono quote, "if i changed my name to jason kaponovich and grew a beard I would of been a lottery pick" :lol: I think there is a lot of truth for it. I can't understand why Europeans get all this hype. Maybe if you counted S. Americans as Euros for some misguided reason... 

Kirk Hinrich, David Lee, and Jordan Farmar or more athletic than any Euros I can think of. Kirk Hinrich did 360 dunks in college all the time he just doesn't do it in the NBA, probably to save energy. Jordan Farmar has fantastic athleticism and so does Lee. Lee and Hinrich are certainly going to be really good players for a while. I'd take them over any Euro except Dirk.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

TRUE STORY!

So today, I went to McDonalds to apply for a job, and on the race part, I did it, I put that I'm white. When I turned it in, the lady looks at me crazy and said "boy you ain't white", and I told her, I'm white hispanic, and my ancestors are white, you know what she did, she laugh at me!


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

lol you are funny as hell


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> TRUE STORY!
> 
> So today, I went to McDonalds to apply for a job, and on the race part, I did it, I put that I'm white. When I turned it in, the lady looks at me crazy and said "boy you ain't white", and I told her, I'm white hispanic, and *my ancestors are white*, you know what she did, she laugh at me!


then you're mixed racially, but hispanic culturally, simple as that. btw... was the lady a authority on race? did she have a phd anthropology? just cuz she's ignorant doesn't excuse you from being so.

i know you get get... you're just being stubborn.


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

btw, i'm not hispanic as you can probably guess, but i did take a Chicano studies class(easy credit)in college and my professor, who is infinitely smarter than i, would disagree with you. i distinctly remember him saying there are may distinct races in the hispanic culture, including asians.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Kyakko said:


> then you're mixed racially, but hispanic culturally, simple as that. btw... was the lady a authority on race? did she have a phd anthropology? just cuz she's ignorant doesn't excuse you from being so.
> 
> i know you get get... you're just being stubborn.



No, I think she just know truth & logic, Hispanics are Hispanic, and whites are whites. When you fill out your information, and your spanish/hispanic, you don't put in your white, you put hispanic/latino/spanish!


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> No, I think she just know truth & logic, Hispanics are Hispanic, and whites are whites. When you fill out your information, and your spanish/hispanic, you don't put in your white, you put hispanic/latino/spanish!


hmmm? maybe you really don't understand.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Roscoe Sheed said:


> :banned: :upset: :stupid:
> 
> that is the most idiotic statement I've ever read on this message board
> 
> did you actually watch Bird play? He played against guys like Dominique Wilkins, Dennis Rodman, James Worthy, Xavier McDaniel, Julius Erving, etc. You think those guys weren't athletic?


I concur... It's not that frequent to see such idiocy being putting forth in words...


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Yeah I understand hispanic people are really white.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

gian said:


> Put Larry Bird in the NBA today and he'll do worse than Morrison.


wow. no really, wow.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

Kyakko said:


> btw, i'm not hispanic as you can probably guess, but i did take a Chicano studies class(easy credit)in college and my professor, who is infinitely smarter than i, would disagree with you. i distinctly
> remember him saying there are may distinct races in the hispanic culture, including asians.


that is correct, mexican asians and in some parts in mexico we still have ..."afro-mexicans"


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## Smez86 (Jun 29, 2006)

Dude, I hate to break it to you, but there are white Hispanics. Ever take any standardized test? I'm half-white and half-Mexican, but I always had to put "other" because the choice was "hispanic, non-white".

But just socially speaking, I tend to believe blacks are in one group, whites another, and Hispanics in another. Maybe that's just American of me.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> No, I think she just know truth & logic, Hispanics are Hispanic, and whites are whites. When you fill out your information, and your spanish/hispanic, you don't put in your white, you put hispanic/latino/spanish!


I don't even get what you're talking about. You started this discussion when you claimed that Spainiards were racially hispanic even though they're caucasians (for the most part). Now you're saying that some lady in McDonalds said you're hispanic.

:thinking2: I guess what I'm trying to say is this: What's your point?


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

Brent Barry, Steve Nash, Kirk Hinrich, Brad Miller, Jeff Hornacek, Mark Price, Mike Miller. Dammit did I say Mike Miller?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

What about John Stockton........??

The all-time assit/steals leader deserves some props.

EDIT: Oh I forgot....what about Bill Lambier and Chris Mullin? maybe you could also consider McHale in there as well, and if you want to go back further the list goes on and on......Pistol Pete..ect ect.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

KillWill said:


> hmmmmm, someone with some education . . . how rare.
> 
> good points man, and just to add, we STILL live in psuedo-colonial times.
> 
> equally as curious (to me anyway) is the the disappearing black in baseball. thank god for matt kemp, james loney and russel martin.


What do you mean by psuedo-colonial?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Latino= From Latin America.

Argentina is in Latin America.














































All from Argentina, all white. Hell, Nocioni has that reddish brown hair, and Walter Hermann has blonde hair for goodness sake.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

bluecro said:


> *
> 
> 
> fiElDy said:
> ...



:lol: :clap2: :lol: 


Yeah Bibby and Kidd do not count..........they're mixed. niether does Jason Williams because he just thinks he's black so he's automatically disqualified as well. Spencer Hawes and Adam Morrison are now your NEW "Great White Hopes". lol good luck with that.....

and no just because someone is of light skin does not necesarilly classify them as "white" in the American sense of the word. Is Joakim Noah white or Anderson Verajo or Jose Barea, just because they have light skin although they're from a completley different culture.......If so, than can please break down to me how that is exactly so.....


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Same thing with Blacks in baseball. Certain races are gravitating towards certain games :whoknows:


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> MJ is the best at basketball, yes.
> 
> But as far as football, look at all the super bowl quarterbacks. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Bledsoe, John Elway, Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Steve Young, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw.



That's because there was a lot of racism in the sport early on, even up till recently where it was thought black players aren't "smart enough" to play as quarterbacks. There are plenty great black quarterbacks and there could have been even more if this did not exist in the sport.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Tragedy said:


> That's because there was a lot of racism in the sport early on, even up till recently where it was thought black players aren't "smart enough" to play as quarterbacks. There are plenty great black quarterbacks and there could have been even more if this did not exist in the sport.


What? Best point guard of all time was John Stockton. Best quarterbacks of all time are all white. What were their jobs? Passing the ball to someone in a favorable position. Whites are better at passing a ball into a favorable position. Thats about it.

Its just how it is. Like I would love to see Donovan McNabb succeed, he's my favorite NFL player, but he wasn't able to get the job done when he was in the Super Bowl. He is one of the most talented quarterbacks in the league, but not on Peyton or Brady level.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

HB said:


> Spencer Hawes is here to save the day


amen


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> What? Best point guard of all time was John Stockton. Best quarterbacks of all time are all white. What were their jobs? Passing the ball to someone in a favorable position. Whites are better at passing a ball into a favorable position. Thats about it.


Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd share a drink and a laugh at your expense...


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

_Dre_ said:


> Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd share a drink and a laugh at your expense...


Magic Johnson was a very good point guard. 2nd best of all time. But come on, he definitely wasn't on Stockton's level as a point guard. 

Jason Kidd shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath with those two. No disrespect to Jason Kidd, but thats just how good those two were.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

_Dre_ said:


> > *What? Best point guard of all time was John Stockton.*
> 
> 
> *Magic Johnson* and Jason Kidd share a drink and a laugh at your expense...


Agree.....Magic takes the cake over stockton everyday of the week....and twice on sundays. sorry bro

:cheers:

Kidd maybe but injuries tainted his career.....


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> What? Best point guard of all time was John Stockton. Best quarterbacks of all time are all white. What were their jobs?  Passing the ball to someone in a favorable position. Whites are better at passing a ball into a favorable position. Thats about it.
> 
> Its just how it is. Like I would love to see Donovan McNabb succeed, he's my favorite NFL player, but he wasn't able to get the job done when he was in the Super Bowl. He is one of the most talented quarterbacks in the league, but not on Peyton or Brady level.


Like I said, having many black quarterbacks in the NFL at one time is something that is new

Michael Vick
McNabb
Leftwich
Jamarcus Russell
Vince Young.

There was an incorrect stigma for too long that black players are not smart enough to be quarterbacks, and if they didnt have that there would have been many more black quarterbacks that can be considered great players


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> Magic Johnson was a very good point guard. 2nd best of all time. But come on, he definitely wasn't on Stockton's level as a point guard.
> 
> Jason Kidd shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath with those two. No disrespect to Jason Kidd, but thats just how good those two were.


 Ok.


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Yeah I understand hispanic people are really white.


now i know you don't understand, and i'm getting dumber trying to explain it to you.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

I'm still trying to find out all these great Euros who are so much better than white Americans... Anyone besides Dirk?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Tragedy said:


> Like I said, having many black quarterbacks in the NFL at one time is something that is new
> 
> Michael Vick
> McNabb
> ...


*cough* Doug Williams *cough*
*cough* Warren Moon *cough*


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Hispanics are taking the whites spot.
> 
> Al Horford
> Pau Gasol
> ...


"Dey tuk ur jurbs!"


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> What? Best point guard of all time was John Stockton.


Not true- the following PGs were better than him:

1. Magic

2. Oscar Robertson

3. Isiah Thomas

4. Clyde Frazier


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

_Dre_ said:


> Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd share a drink and a laugh at your expense...


Kidd is a very good player, but is not a better PG than Stockton

Kidd has always been an awful shooter. Stockton, on the other hand, always shot above 50%

also, Stockton was an even better passer than Kidd


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## BengalDuck (Jun 19, 2004)

Tragedy said:


> There was an incorrect stigma for too long that black players are not smart enough to be quarterbacks


Is that like the incorrect stigma that blacks are more athletic than whites?

Athleticism transcends race. Some in here are showing their niavety. Unfortunately, some in here are also showing their ignorance.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

BengalDuck said:


> Is that like the incorrect stigma that blacks are more athletic than whites?
> 
> Athleticism transcends race. Some in here are showing their niavety. Unfortunately, some in here are also showing their ignorance.


Well in the South most black athletes weren't even given the chance to be quarterbacks period. You can't excel at the position unless you're given a chance to be honest. Football is completely different from basketball anyway. 

Basketball as soon as a person gets the rock they can show their skills. Football is 100% predicated on who gives who the ball and in what situation. It HAS to be a team game.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

herrmann is obviously of german descent.. it's not that hard to guess with blond hair and a name like that - just like in the US, a lot of people have moved from europe to argentina.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Now obviously I've been reading/posting in this thread for a while, and I don't think this has been brought up (ao apologies if it has)

I think a large reason foreign white players either do better, have more success or are just more common than North American white players (not sure if I include Canada in that..) is the system. In Europe and South America they play team ball from a very young age. In America, the 'NBA culture' is a lot bigger.
In Europe, yes, you can watch the NBA. But because it doesn't.... 'surround' them, they play differently.
Learning to play in a FIBA environemnt is very different from learning to play in America, in my opinion.

I know there are black people in Europe, obviously, but it's undeniable that most European players are white.
IF white people are less athletic, I think this contrbutes to how they learn to play - in America, amazing athletes like James White (people who can jump over small trees and telephone boxes) aren't as rare as in Europe/South America.
Therefore, the game plan of those players (Europe) relies less on that - improved team play follows, as well as better fundamentals.
Because the white players in America are both fewer in number and have these athletic teammates, as well as being under the influence of the NBA, they gravitate to a more 1 on 1 game, a more driving/dunking game.

It may seem stupid to you, but it's worth considering in my opinion - learning to play basketball in a more team-orientated environment leads to better team play. Foreign white players have an advantage over American white players when it comes to this. 

slightly OT - is it me, or are a lot of the white American players either guards or bigs (ie 6'10+, and usually stiffs?)
If so, I think this supports my arguement.


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## dwade3 (Sep 12, 2005)

Mebarak said:


> MJ is the best at basketball, yes.
> 
> But as far as football, look at all the super bowl quarterbacks. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Bledsoe, John Elway, Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Steve Young, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw.


But with any football (soccer, rugby, gridiron etc..) its hard for any 1 team to dominate basically a whole decade, so u look at the unstoppable, and its not fair to running backs and wide receivers to just rank quarterbacks (considering they have the ball most of the time on offense and HAVE to perform, its out of neccessity) + id take Ladanian Thomilson over any of those quarterbacks except Joe Montana and Brett Farve......but anyways, fact is, black people rule sport, Babe Ruth was only legendary coz there were no black or latin ppl allowed to play basbeball in his time, look at the Texas A & M 1964 team, first 'all-black' line up, stomped over the competition (a couple of those players were scraps from other top teams)......it IS a genetic thing...its an inevitable thing....


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## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't buy into this whole black people are better at sports garbage. The only reason i can see why there is greater representation is because you typically have to be a certain size/weight to be effective in alot of sports and black/white people generally grow taller...however that's not to say that asian, latino, or mid-eastern people can't be just as good..there just aren't as many who are the same size vs the total # of people.

There are ALOT of sports where race really doesn't mean squat...just off the top of my head:

Tennis (both mens and womens)
Mixed Martial Arts
Soccer
Baseball
Boxing

So black people dominate how many of these sports? precisely none...and with the exception of baseball) these are some of the most athletic sports ... 1 on 1 type stuff where its all you and your own ability.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Hispanic people aren't white! There's a HUGE diffrence between being white and being Hispanic.
*
Whites*-Live in the big houses, go to nice schools, have the easy road.
*

Hispanics*- Live in little apartments, go to dirty poor schools, have to clean and paint the *WHITE* peoples houses to make a living.

My school is 60% black, 30%Hispanic/Spanish, 10% white. Most of the white kids go to the nice schools, (cause they can afford it) but the 10% that goes to my school, I'm left wondering where are they!?!? They're not in class, with all the Hispanics/Blacks kids. Oh I know, there in the *HONORS CLASSES*, With the nice books, and the nice desk, and brand new computers. While we're left with basically trash, the tore up books, the written on desk, the old computers.

Now answer this, why aren't they in classes with us, they can't be that much smarter than us, No they're just whiter than us!

I'm looking at my year book and out of 6 classes there was a total of 3 white kids, but my white friend who's in honors himself,( he's not exactly the smartest person in the world) told me all his classes were mostly white.

Now if we're white,(Hispanics)than why are we cleaning houses, painting houses, going to the dirty schools, I mean we're white we should get the same easy treatment, all the other whites get.

why did I ask this same question yesterday, on Yahoo answers, and get a bunch of "wet back" comment, from my fellow white people?


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## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Now if we're white,(Hispanics)than why are we cleaning houses, painting houses, going to the dirty schools, I mean we're white we should get the same easy treatment, all the other whites get.


This has nothing to do with being white or hispanic...it has more to do with the parents...and the kids making the wrong decisions in life.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Now if we're white,(Hispanics)than why are we cleaning houses, painting houses, going to the dirty schools, I mean we're white we should get the same easy treatment, all the other whites get.
> 
> why did I ask this same question yesterday, on Yahoo answers, and get a bunch of "wet back" comment, from my fellow white people?



Well, probably cos you're an ***. 




> Whites-Live in the big houses, go to nice schools, have the easy road.
> 
> 
> Hispanics- Live in little apartments, go to dirty poor schools, have to clean and paint the WHITE peoples houses to make a living.


Yeah, cos that's not racist..



Now - I'm not gonna deny that white people generally have better standards of living, in America; but i can't really comment on that, because as mentioned before I don't live in America.
But surely saying whites always have "the easy road" is just as bad as saying black people are too stupid to play quarterback?


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

R-X said:


> This has nothing to do with being white or hispanic...it has more to do with the parents...and the kids making the wrong decisions in life.



So most white people make good decisions, thats why they have the nice jobs?


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Dude, white people have crappy jobs too.
In Europe there aren't as many black or latino people - but hey, guess what, we still have people who do crappy jobs! And no, they're not some kind of minority, they're the people I used to go to school with or the people we buy pot from.

Not everyone can have a great job.

As i've already said, those aren't the only reasons, it's not all just random luck.. but that plays a part.


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## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> So most white people make good decisions, thats why they have the nice jobs?


Alls I'm saying is that its not a RACE thing to be unsuccessful...its a STUPIDITY thing =)...well more like a work ethic thing. 

Everyone has the potential to be a bum regardless of what their background is...I believe it starts at home and if your folks don't instill a good work ethic in you and some good values from the getgo...you have a higher probability of being a bum and letting bad influences get to you and in turn making stupid choices in life.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

edit: double post


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Let's see where I am in 10 years time.
I'm white, intelligent, and very lazy. The last 3 or so years i've pretty much coasted through school, and my last set of exams, some i didn't do.
Doesn't sound like much, but compared to when I was 14 or so, it's horrible.

Oh, and I've never had any sort of job.

Don't bother blaming the parents, they've tried pretty hard.

I'm just lazy, and I dont think about the future.


Now, who else can be blamed?


I'm with R-X on that.
However, I won't deny the race thing, as I do think it plays some part in America. Just not to that extent.
(though once again, I don't live there, I don't know)


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

You can be a hard-worker, most of the time if your Hispanic/black, your gonna go through sterotype. Most of you are white, so you wouldn't understand( I've been told that many times.) 

If it's all about hard work, than have all the president, been harder workers than Hispanic/blacks.


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## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

Not saying blame the parents outright...but they are a factor

there are no certainties in life...like do X, Y, Z and your kids will be smart/successful...but what people can do is TRY and at least increase the probability that they will be..its better then nothing


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## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> You can be a hard-worker, most of the time if your Hispanic/black, your gonna go through sterotype. Most of you are white, so you wouldn't understand( I've been told that many times.)
> 
> If it's all about hard work, than have all the president, been harder workers than Hispanic/blacks.


If you think you will be stereotyped then it will happen =)

FYI i ain't white...and i know some really smart/successful Black and Hispanic people that I work with...don't see anyone stereotyping them here in NYC's Finance Industry


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Parent play a big part, but you know what else plays part, SCHOOLS! Like I said whites go to the nice schools, and have the rich parents. What kinda schools do we go to? The dirty ones, with old books, desk, conmputer, and most of the whites, like I said are put in honors classes, even if they're dumb. this isn't just at my school, it's been like this, everywhere i've gone.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

el_Diablo said:


> herrmann is obviously of german descent.. it's not that hard to guess with blond hair and a name like that - just like in the US, a lot of people have moved from europe to argentina.


Yes, Argentina became the in place for Italian & German émigrés in the mid 40s. :bsmile:


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Hispanic people aren't white! There's a HUGE diffrence between being white and being Hispanic.
> *
> Whites*-Live in the big houses, go to nice schools, have the easy road.


*

this is irritating me... i should stop but this kid seems to be a product of the no kids left behind system. you can't just conveniently ignore 80 percent of my statement and say put words in my month.

bare with me eh cuz i'm not going to explain it anymore. i DID NOT say hispanics were ONLY white. repeat again, hispanics ARE NOT ONLY completely white. one more time. you ARE PROBABLY NOT completely white but you have white ancestories. that part's important. with that being said, THERE ARE whites in the hispanic culture. get the difference? like most latinos, you're probably a genetic mix of indian and white, which DOES NOT make you complete WHITE. however, THERE are hispanics that ARE completely white or close to it. there are hispanics that are black or close to it. what you're talking about is a social issue which is a totally different issue. go back to the super intelligent macdonald's lady and tell her you're a hispanic some indian and white blood.

black brazil:









indian from chile:









mixed(as with most) from mexico:









caucasian from argintina:









what you're arguing with the word "white" is a difference in word usage and totally different issue. like wind (blow) and wind (twist). if it makes you feel better, i'll use the word caucasian from now on. and before you misquote me again. most hispanics ARE NOT completely caucasion, but there are some that ARE completely caucasian. latinos and hispanics are made up of MANY races, and there is nothing wrong with that, now if you want to talk about social issues, that's a different argument.*


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

JoeD said:


> I'm still trying to find out all these great Euros who are so much better than white Americans... Anyone besides Dirk?


Give Andrea Bargnani another season. Okar's pretty badass too.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Parent play a big part, but you know what else plays part, SCHOOLS! Like I said whites go to the nice schools, and have the rich parents. What kinda schools do we go to? The dirty ones, with old books, desk, conmputer, and most of the whites, like I said are put in honors classes, even if they're dumb. this isn't just at my school, it's been like this, everywhere i've gone.



Most people will probably disagree, but I think schooling is overrated.
Yes, I think people need to go to school.
But more to prove that they can graduate, not to learn the use of irony is Shakespeare's plays.

But America has competitive schooling at all levels, doesn't it?
Once again, a completely different environment, so perhaps my comment doesn't apply there.

edit: oh and kyakko, do you class all white people as caucasian? For example, are slavs caucasian in your book?
(I ask because I'd assume Walter Hermann was aryan or nordic, whatever it's called these days..)


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

So because SOME are completely Caucasian, we should all be labeled Caucasian. Thats what I'm reading in this thread.



> different_13 said:
> 
> 
> > As for spanish people not being considered white as in race - why the hell not? They're caucasian, right? They might be tanned, but they're still caucasian. I see a distinct difference between spanish (or hispanic) people, such as argentinians Manu and Nocioni, and latins (or latinos, to make it easier for me to remember what I'm talking about), such as puerto ricans and other non-caucasian spanish speakers that aren't African blacks (I originally said *******, but i don't know if that's seen as offensive - I mean African black people, as opposed to, say Australian aboriginees etc)


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Notice I said Spanish. Meaning from Spain.

Note I then also said OR hispanic.

Note, yet again, that I then explained that I personally class white people from South America as hispanic, and that I call black, partially black, indian, or whatever the hell else, latino.

Note that i said "to make it easier for me to remember what I'm talking about"

Now, you take my post, ignore what doesn't agree with your view, and then make a judgement on the whole thread, which doesn't even make sense..

edit: "I call black, partially black, indian, or whatever the hell else, latino." - meaning those belonging to a hispanic culture, obviously


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

different_13 said:


> Notice I said Spanish. Meaning from Spain.
> 
> Note I then also said OR hispanic.
> 
> ...


that's fine about labeling white people from south america as hispanics, but again we're talking about different things. you're talking from a social geological standpoint and key word you used is "hispanic culture". in which case, you are correct. BUT, it doesn't matter how you class anyone socially, their dna makeup is still the same. i understand what you're trying to say and i don't disagree with you, but we're talking about different things. for example, if Walter Hermann, with the same genetic makeup, were born and raised in england and never saw latin america, would he still be latino? i've done what you said and still came up with the same conclusion, which is not subjective by the way. now try this, take the social and geological aspect away from your post and ask... are there caucasions in latin america?

btw, i've been trying to find the asian latino professor castro's been talking about. no luck.

edit: as for o.'s response, let me repeat again. NOT ALL hispanics are COMPLETELY caucasian. it's also funny cuz i've mentioned latino blacks and indians just as much as caucasian, but you seem to zone in with them.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

shookem said:


> Give Andrea Bargnani another season. Okar's pretty badass too.


The Euros better than Kirk Hinrich as of this moment:

Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Mehmet Okur
Andrei Kirilienko (Russia is still classified as European right, not Asian?)
Maria Sharapova (seriously, I'm just baiting someone to post her picture)

Also, hawksfan, you don't get in honors classes by being white. Through this thread you have shown why you clearly do not belong in them.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Firstly, kyakko - I know it's not what is being discussed, i just wanted to point out hawksfan was using MY personal terms (which I agree have almost nothing to do with the subject) argue HIS (very flawed) point.
That was all.

Secondly, I'm repping Mebarek for that :clap2: 

Lastly, kyakko again - by my standards Hermann's hispanic :biggrin: 
But as for what you're saying - no, if his culture's not hispanic, i wouldn't class him as such.

There can be caucasians in south America, being caucasian and being 'hispanic' (once again, MY definition) aren't mutually exclusive (in fact, it's required to be white AND of a hispanic culture)
Such as all the immigrants you mentioned - culturally, they're hispanic. Genetically, they're white.
Skin colour can be deceiving - you can get a helluva tan if you try :biggrin: 


Btw, I feel I may have not really responded to or understood what you said, so apologies if i'm just rambling..


edit: must spread rep before giving it to mebarak, etc.. (though I can't remember repping you anytime recently..)


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

different_13 said:


> There can be caucasians in south America, being caucasian and being 'hispanic' (once again, MY definition) aren't mutually exclusive (in fact, it's required to be white AND of a hispanic culture)
> Such as all the immigrants you mentioned - culturally, they're hispanic. Genetically, they're white.
> Skin colour can be deceiving - you can get a helluva tan if you try :biggrin:


actually, that's exactly what i'm trying to say.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Oh wow, yeah, let a bunch of white dude(or whatever you guys are), tell a Hispanic person what he actually is.

I wonder why some white people label Hispanic people, "wet backs", if we're white white to.


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## Smez86 (Jun 29, 2006)

White is a color. Ethnicity is something else.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Hawksfan, yet again you completely ignore the part where I clearly state that the labels hispanic and latino are terms I use to describe either 
white people of a hispanic culture (ie white argentinians)
or
non-white people of a hispanic culture (ie typial mexicans)


And Hawksfan, when the hell did we ever tell you what you are?
Yes, I am white btw. (I'm also half English/Dutch, but that has no bearing on this discussion other than that I have SOME idea of what living in a 'foreign' culture is like.. And even that is so miniscule compared to typical American experience, it doesn't have any bearing on this discussion)


Btw, we seem to have lost the basketball part of the discussion - is anyone gonna comment on my team-play environment comment? (that's the last bit of basketball relatedness I remember!)


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

Stupidest thread ever. No point to it all, and revolves around the ignorance of who really white.


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

FYI- race is a cultural concept and has NO GENETIC BASIS whatsoever. there is more dna in a grain of rice than there is in a human being, and there is more variation between two grains of rice than there is between a white/black/asian/latino. i forget the exact number but something like 97% of our dna is the same. 

therefore, genetics has nothing to do with any of this. it has to do with socioeconomics, culture, and individuals striving for their dreams. its nice to pretend that some people are born great at something (and justify one's own failure by birthright), but there are too many examples of people who overcome misfortune, and more examples still of those who piss away their good fortune.

and LMAO at the guy who said Pele followed by zidane for footy GOAT. ever here of maradona, di stefano, cruyff?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

maradro said:


> FYI- race is a cultural concept and has NO GENETIC BASIS whatsoever. there is more dna in a grain of rice than there is in a human being, and there is more variation between two grains of rice than there is between a white/black/asian/latino. i forget the exact number but something like 97% of our dna is the same.
> 
> therefore, genetics has nothing to do with any of this. it has to do with socioeconomics, culture, and individuals striving for their dreams. its nice to pretend that some people are born great at something (and justify one's own failure by birthright), but there are too many examples of people who overcome misfortune, and more examples still of those who piss away their good fortune.
> 
> and LMAO at the guy who said Pele followed by zidane for footy GOAT. ever here of maradona, di stefano, cruyff?


lol at the complete misunderstanding of genetics.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Also, one thing that the foreign players have on the USA players, is, aren't the foreign players able to go pro at like 16? They can just focus on basketball nonstop, while its not that way in the American school system, and you can't go pro in the USA until a year removed from your highschools graduating class.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

hawksfan, quit posting or i'm calling immigration


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

I'm repping you right now.
That's the best first post I've ever seen :lol:


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## NeTs15VC (Aug 16, 2005)

NetsFan said:


> spanish people aren't really coonsidered white as in race


If there from Spain which is in Europe they are considered White


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

ChrisRichards said:


> hawksfan, quit posting or i'm calling immigration


I am repping you as well. Superb beyond belief for your first post.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

NeTs15VC said:


> If there from Spain which is in Europe they are considered White


Except when they're not white.
This, hawksfan, is how we classify people.
We look at them, and go: look, this specific spanish person is white. Oh look, and there's a black one. My, what facinating cultural diversity.


...well, not really, but we don't say they're all white (though some are pretty decent guys :biggrin:


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Do you consider all British to be white than?

This could potentially be the starting lineup for Britain in the 2012 Olympics.














































Using your logic hawksfan, all those Brits up there are white? Right? Because the British are white...


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

shookem said:


> Give Andrea Bargnani another season. Okar's pretty badass too.


Okur isn't special. Andrea Bargnani is done nothing. He's a tall shooter.

I'd rather have American guys like Hinrich and Lee.

So basically the only significant European is Dirk. This thread is stupid.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

dwade3 said:


> But with any football (soccer, rugby, gridiron etc..) its hard for any 1 team to dominate basically a whole decade, so u look at the unstoppable, and its not fair to running backs and wide receivers to just rank quarterbacks (considering they have the ball most of the time on offense and HAVE to perform, its out of neccessity) + id take Ladanian Thomilson over any of those quarterbacks except Joe Montana and Brett Farve......but anyways, fact is, black people rule sport, Babe Ruth was only legendary coz there were no black or latin ppl allowed to play basbeball in his time, look at the Texas A & M 1964 team, first 'all-black' line up, stomped over the competition (a couple of those players were scraps from other top teams)......it IS a genetic thing...its an inevitable thing....


That's because you are retarded.

Yeah, any GM would take LT over Bledsoe.

But I am going to say that most GMs would take a majority of those QBs over a RB. The rest of the post is pretty dumb too, but I don't really care to debate over that.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

> In the most recent United States Census conducted in 2000, 16,907,852 Americans, or 47.9% of the then 35,305,818 U.S. Hispanics self-identified as white, and they constituted the plurality of Hispanics in the United States.[2] Hispanics who reported "Some other race" were the second largest group, and they constituted 42.2% of all Hispanics in the United States. Of all people who reported "Some other race", only 3% were non-Hispanic. Of the remainder of Hispanics, 2% reported they were Black, 1.2% reported themselves as Indigenous peoples of the Americas, 0.3% as Asian, and 0.1% as Pacific Islanders. Approximately 6% of all U.S. Hispanics reported "two or more races" or (multi-racial).[3] Respondents who reported Mexican, Latin American, Latino, or Chicano in the "Some other race" section of the 2000 US Census were automatically counted in the white category.[4] It should be noted that where "some other race" is not included as a separate racial group, they are counted as "white", leading to 93% of Hispanics being considered "white" in intercensal Census Bureau estimates. [2]
> 
> Numerically, most White U.S. Hispanics are Mexican American, and White Mexican Americans alone comprise the majority of White U.S. Hispanics. Proportional to their individual U.S. Hispanic group by national origin, however, White Mexican Americans comprise around 49% of the total Mexican American population.





> The second largest number of White U.S. Hispanics, after White Mexican Americans, is composed of Cuban Americans and Puerto Rican Americans. These three U.S Hispanic groups by national origin together comprise almost the entire population of White U.S. Hispanics. Proportional to their individual U.S. Hispanic group by national origin, White Cuban Americans comprise the overall majority of the total Cuban American population, however, this differs significantly from Cuba's own ethnographic profile, which places Cuba as a mulatto majority country, followed by a large white and a small black minority. This is because after Castro's revolution, a large fraction of Cuba's primarily white middle class emigrated to the United States.
> 
> While constituting a smaller segment of the White U.S. Hispanic population — and of the U.S. Hispanic population in general — proportional to their individual groups by Hispanic national origin, Spanish Americans (i.e. from Spain), and the great majority of Argentine Americans, Uruguayan Americans, and newly arrived Venezuelan Americans (due to political changes in Venezuela) are also White U.S. Hispanics. Spain, a European country, along with Argentina, Uruguay and Venezuela are composed of white majorities.





> Mestizo is a term of Spanish origin used to designate people of mixed European and indigenous non-European ancestry. The term has traditionally been applied mostly to those of mixed European and indigenous Amerindian ancestry who inhabit the region spanning Latin America. In other regions and countries previously under Spanish, Portuguese or French colonial rule, variants of the term may also be in usage for people of other mixtures. In the Philippines, the term Mestizo is used to identify individuals who are mixed indigenous Austronesian and European or any other Foreign ancestry.





> Mulatto is a person of mixed black and white ancestry or the offspring of one white parent and one black parent or someone 50% black and 50% white.





> Zambo is a term of Spanish origin describing Latin Americans of mixed African and Amerindian racial descent.



Yes, it's Wikipedia, but i still think it could clear some issues up.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

JoeD said:


> Okur isn't special. Andrea Bargnani is done nothing. He's a tall shooter.
> 
> I'd rather have American guys like Hinrich and Lee.
> 
> So basically the only significant European is Dirk. This thread is stupid.



It's not just Euro's, it's non-American white players.
Regardless, Pau Gasol isn't bad either.

And with south americans such as Manu and Nocioni, the number goes up.


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> lol at the complete misunderstanding of genetics.


why dont you elaborate then mr expert??

are there genes specific to certain races? can you determine a persons race by looking at their dna?? and more to the point, can you determine if someone is good at X by looking at their dna?

maybe teams should fire there scouting departments and set up dna labs instead??


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

It would be good to know the age of all those Chinese prospects (not to mention Mutombo!)

:biggrin: 

Btw maradro, were those hypothetical, or do you know?
Cos i'm interested..


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

maradro said:


> why dont you elaborate then mr expert??
> 
> are there genes specific to certain races? can you determine a persons race by looking at their dna?? and more to the point, can you determine if someone is good at X by looking at their dna?
> 
> maybe teams should fire there scouting departments and set up dna labs instead??



*"there is more dna in a grain of rice than there is in a human being"*

There is absolutely not more DNA in a grain of rice than a human. Just looking at the size of the the humans compared to the grain of rice you should be able to tell that a human has a hell of a lot more DNA in it than a grain of rice. I am going to assume you meant that a grain of rice has more chromosomes in its nucleus than a human does...which is not true. Rice has a haploid number of 12, humans 23. Human haploid sets generally have 3,000,000,000 nucleotide pairs. Rice on the other hand, 430,000,000. Big difference.

*and there is more variation between two grains of rice than there is between a white/black/asian/latino. i forget the exact number but something like 97% of our dna is the same. 
*

There will obviously be a larger variation for the rice than the humans if you want to play this by percent. See, now say there is a variation of 2,000 nucleotide pairs (applying this to both rice and humans). Thats a .00046% variation on the rice. .000067% variation for the humans. 

See how that works? But even the variation of just one nucleotide pair, depending on which one, can make the difference. 

Thats what the human genome was for. To map out the human genome, so they could find what variations cause certain things for humans.

As for teams setting up DNA labs, Curry-gate proved that the NBA will not be the pioneer in DNA testing their employees.


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

different_13 said:


> It would be good to know the age of all those Chinese prospects (not to mention Mutombo!)
> 
> :biggrin:
> 
> ...


according to my teachers and textbooks at UCSC, there are no genes specific to one "race", and at best you can determine or make an educated guess as to the person's hair color, skin color, etc, but not enough to say "this dna belongs to a ____". you definitely cant say this person is good at X, because the relation between genotype and phenotype is too complex. an easy non controversial example with a horse- you have a thoroughbred stallion champ race horse's offspring, but if you did not properly feed it its muscles would not develop, and on top of that you have to train it. if it was just genetics ppl wouldnt bother to go to the track

Im going to have to dig up my old text books to argue the rice thing with mebarak because its been a long time, but regardless of that I'm 100% certain that genetics has very little to do with athletic ability, and less even in a team sport where physical ability is only one part of the story.

For ex: Garrincha is considered one of the top footie players of all time. Doctors told him that because of his birth defect (one leg shorter than the other, both of them arched) he would never be able to play sports, that he would be lucky to run, and yet he became one of the fastest most talented dribblers of his time with deadly accuracy from his defective feet.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

You definitely need training to develop your muscles properly to get the most out of them, but depending on the genetic makeup, you could have a potential athletic ability much higher than someone else, because their genetics just do not favor them that much in the athletic department.

But as far as certain races, there aren't necessarily specific genes for certain races...like you just can't throw out a blanket statement like black people have more fast twitch muscles than white people. It all depends on their ancestors as well. But that could be seen as in general black people have more fast twitch muscles than white people do, as a result of genetic isolation. Like take the Dinka tribe in Sudan for example. They have genes genetically isolated among them for their people being tall. So when they mate, their offspring will have those tall genes. Thats why they produce some of the tallest people in the world, such as Luol Deng and Manute Bol (I think the average height of a Dinka is something like 6'9" for males). 

You need both the genetics and the hard work.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

How can you say this: 



> But as far as certain races, there aren't necessarily specific genes for certain races...like you just can't throw out a blanket statement like black people have more fast twitch muscles than white people. It all depends on their ancestors as well.


And then say this: 



> But that could be seen as in general black people have more fast twitch muscles than white people do, as a result of genetic isolation. Like take the Dinka tribe in Sudan for example.


That's pretty ignorant. Pick a side and stick with it. 

Let me help you and everyone else out: 

You all are the ones adding in the race aspect. You automatically classified the Dinka tribe in Sudan as black, which is a social construction on your part. Otherwise, you really are saying that there is a race gene - i.e. skin color is linked to physical characteristics, intelligence, behavior, and/or other human traits. So that's why this whole thread is racist, as usual, because people are discriminately classifying a group of people as distinguishable from another without any basis for doing so. The "black" players in the NBA have a wide range of colors. Where's the line that distinguishes black from everything else? This is nothing more than an imposed construction of identity that allows a specific group of people to classify and reclassify another specific group/s of people to serve their own, selfish interests. The fact that a certain tribe in Africa has certain outstanding physical attributes does nothing to prove that "blacks", as a group, are more or less athletic than "whites", as a group. The example of the tribe in Africa simply fits into your racist, preconceived notion of race.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> How can you say this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will you stop and read and take it in. No need to go on your racist rants because you cannot understand simple genetics.

Now say there are two mixed parents (black/white to just simplify things). One parent has a good jumping gene, the other parent has a poor jumping gene (once again, this is oversimplifying). Now say they're on a deserted island by themself, last people alive, have to repopulate the earth with humans. They have say 6 childrens that are white, 1 that is mixed, and 4 that are black in color. By chance, the whites got the jumping gene, the mixed got the jumping gene, and the blacks did not get the jumping gene allele. There were 3 white males, 3 white females, 2 black males, 2 black females, and the mixed is a male. Now a volcano erupts, the mixed male is killed in the eruption. An earthquake accompanies the eruption, and splits the island in two. By chance, all the whites get stuck on one side, all the blacks on the other side, and these two land masses slowly move apart to be two separate islands. So now only the whites are mating with the whites, and the blacks only with the blacks. So the whites can jump real high, the blacks not so much. This type of genetic isolation can lead to say the allele for fast twitch fibers to be in certain gene pools rather than others.

Also, certain genes can be linked to each other.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> Will you stop and read and take it in. No need to go on your racist rants because you cannot understand simple genetics.
> 
> Now say there are two mixed parents (black/white to just simplify things). One parent has a good jumping gene, the other parent has a poor jumping gene (once again, this is oversimplifying). Now say they're on a deserted island by themself, last people alive, have to repopulate the earth with humans. They have say 6 childrens that are white, 1 that is mixed, and 4 that are black in color. By chance, the whites got the jumping gene, the mixed got the jumping gene, and the blacks did not get the jumping gene allele. There were 3 white males, 3 white females, 2 black males, 2 black females, and the mixed is a male. Now a volcano erupts, the mixed male is killed in the eruption. An earthquake accompanies the eruption, and splits the island in two. By chance, all the whites get stuck on one side, all the blacks on the other side, and these two land masses slowly move apart to be two separate islands. So now only the whites are mating with the whites, and the blacks only with the blacks. So the whites can jump real high, the blacks not so much. This type of genetic isolation can lead to say the allele for fast twitch fibers to be in certain gene pools rather than others.
> 
> Also, certain genes can be linked to each other.



I know exactly what you were saying, no need to explain it again. I passed high school biology. 

Now will you respond to what I say, because you ignored everything I brought up and regurgitated it in your attempt to "correct" me. Your example had implicit ideas about race in it that I was addressing. My response had less to do with genetics and more to do with the social world. Besides, the idea of racial and/or genetic purity is way overstated. The world is a lot more mixed up genetically than most people are aware of and probably willing to admit.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

I don't think the issue is twitch fiber, especially since so much of that can be changed by training.

I read some article ages ago about the 100m dash and it said only certain black people (meaning not all black people) who have genes for a slightly different ankle structure are the ones who get under 10 seconds. I have no idea if that is true however.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

JoeD said:


> I don't think the issue is twitch fiber, especially since so much of that can be changed by training.
> 
> I read some article ages ago about the 100m dash and it said only certain black people (meaning not all black people) who have genes for a slightly different ankle structure are the ones who get under 10 seconds. I have no idea if that is true however.


Yes, that is exactly how it is. Only a certain group of people have these little physical differences as a result of the alleles in their gene pool. But take for example these sprinters, they are black, and thats where the generalization of blacks are better sprinters than whites comes from. Those large blanket statements don't work. Its only a certain group that has these favorable alleles.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I hate it when I hear people talking about the NBA as a "black man's league". Sometimes it sounds as if people don't think that the league is good anymore because there are "not enough white players". Who the hell cares what color a person is, or where they're from? As long as a guy can dribble the ball and put it through the hoop, this game and this league is fine by me.

Besides, no matter what you believe, there are plenty of young, up and coming white players in the league today...
Kirk Hinrich, Steve Nash, Adam Morrison, Andrew Bogut, Spencer Hawes, Jason Smith, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Luke Walton, Luke Ridnour, J.J. Redick, Steve Blake, Chris Kaman, Matt Carroll, David Lee, the list goes on...


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## pr0wler (Jun 8, 2003)

JoeD said:


> I don't think the issue is twitch fiber, especially since so much of that can be changed by training.


Not true. Granted, you can improve your quickness and athletic ability marginally, but not that much. You can't teach quickness just like you can't teach height. And I am not saying you can't get STRONGER...weight training will help significantly. But I'd like to see reports documenting how guys got a lot quicker and faster just on training alone.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

pr0wler said:


> Not true. Granted, you can improve your quickness and athletic ability marginally, but not that much. You can't teach quickness just like you can't teach height. And I am not saying you can't get STRONGER...weight training will help significantly. But I'd like to see reports documenting how guys got a lot quicker and faster just on training alone.


It is well documented. Took 2 secs on google to find an example:
http://www.readysetgofitness.com/newsletter/14_Plyo-Power.html

Fast twitch fibers aren't the only part of speed though, body structure is another part which varies from person to person and you obviously can't change that.


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

maradro said:


> according to my teachers and textbooks at UCSC, there are no genes specific to one "race", and at best you can determine or make an educated guess as to the person's hair color, skin color, etc, but not enough to say "this dna belongs to a ____". you definitely cant say this person is good at X, because the relation between genotype and phenotype is too complex. an easy non controversial example with a horse- you have a thoroughbred stallion champ race horse's offspring, but if you did not properly feed it its muscles would not develop, and on top of that you have to train it. if it was just genetics ppl wouldnt bother to go to the track
> 
> Im going to have to dig up my old text books to argue the rice thing with mebarak because its been a long time, but regardless of that I'm 100% certain that genetics has very little to do with athletic ability, and less even in a team sport where physical ability is only one part of the story.
> 
> For ex: Garrincha is considered one of the top footie players of all time. Doctors told him that because of his birth defect (one leg shorter than the other, both of them arched) he would never be able to play sports, that he would be lucky to run, and yet he became one of the fastest most talented dribblers of his time with deadly accuracy from his defective feet.


Thanks Bill Nye.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

How are you gonna call immigration on a white person(according to ya'll)


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## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> How are you gonna call immigration on a white person(according to ya'll)


Repped!


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Well, eastern europeans get chucked out of everywhere all the time, so it obviously isn't that hard..


Hawksfan, answer me a question - do you have in your immediate ancestry any black or amerindian people?
Or is your family all white (for say, the past 3 or 4 generations to make things simpler)

Cos if you read that stuff I posted a lil while ago, you can find out exactly what _your government _classes you as.

Btw, well done on ignoring the immigration comment to argue something else, and then go back to it when you're losing yet another arguement.
I'd take my hat off to you, but I don't wear one :worthy: 


Anyway maradro, cheers for that explanation.
It's as someone said - black (well, white) is a skin colour, ethnicity is something else.

Mebarak - is that even possible? Ethnicly they'd all be mixed race, right? (mulatto, in this case)
Though I understand you can have different siblings being different skin colours.

(R-X, didn't you post in my "Rep" [is pointless] thread a short while ago? :biggrin:


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Well technically...it could happen. The probability of it happening is almost non-existent, but with the right sperm/egg combo, it could happen like that. Most likely, they'd all be those mixed colors...maybe one outlier that is leaning closer to black or white.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Hispanic people aren't white! There's a HUGE diffrence between being white and being Hispanic.
> *
> Whites*-Live in the big houses, go to nice schools, have the easy road.
> *
> ...


:lol: 

Its funny. He knows this isn't how it is, but is already planting the seeds for his future shortcomings. Its not my fault that I'm poor! Its because I'm not white!


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Didnt have time to read 150 repsonses so sorry if anything here is a repeat but its sort of like the disappearance of the black american ballplayer in baseball. A lot of latin players are obviously black as are a lot of foreign basketball players white but i see the similarity. Back in the 70s whites more than held there own on the court with guys like Walton, Cowens, West, Havlicheck, Bobby Jones etc but really started to disappear in the 80's(despite Bird and Mchale). In the case of the black athlete in baseball they tend to migrate more now i think to football and basketball. Do whites now end up playing QB or TE i'm not sure but there seems like less success.Perhaps guys like Hawes, Budinger, Singler and Love will change that we'll have to see. Interesting subject.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

"There absolutely, positively, will never ever be another John Stockton – ever."


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> How are you gonna call immigration on a white person(according to ya'll)



"OK, we'll take the ******s and the ******. But we _don't want the Irish_."


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Why not move this to the EBB section as well.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Hispanic people aren't white! There's a HUGE diffrence between being white and being Hispanic.
> *
> Whites*-Live in the big houses, go to nice schools, have the easy road.
> *
> ...


i stopped reading at this point. you have some serious issues. do some reading, you just might learn something


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> "OK, we'll take the ******s and the ******. But we _don't want the Irish_."


Blazing Saddles, *EXCELLENT* movie. Repped.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

the whole idea of social economic factors makes me laugh.

black Americans are 12.1 % of the population according to the last census....and not all of them are poor or play basketball.

there are far more poor white people in this country than of any other race just because there are so many of them, there are states where there are almost no one but Caucasians and basketball is a huge sport.

how does socioeconomics explain that?


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> the whole idea of social economic factors makes me laugh.
> 
> black Americans are 12.1 % of the population according to the last census....and not all of them are poor or play basketball.
> 
> ...


SOCIOeconomic... maybe baseball is more popular for poor caucasian people. and minorities are much poorer by percentage. what state are you referring to btw?


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

I keep logging in to read about the death of the white american bball player and still cant seem to get any worthwhile info, will check back later.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Yeah, I think we're still discussing who's white.
Oh, and hawksfan.


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## Babe Ruth (Dec 6, 2006)

This is a well written topic. Back in the day Basketball was a blue collar's type of game. That's why players like Larry Bird, Pete Marivich, Bob Cousy, Jerry West, Bob Petit and Chris Mullen to name a few players excelled so much. They could all shoot the lights out, and play good defence. When players like Julius Erving, Connie Hawkins, David Thompson, and Michael Jordan entered the league the game changed. There wasn't anymore lay ups. Instead players stuffed the ball into the basket. And that's the type of game we still play today. Which makes it harder for caucasions because they don't have the ability's as african americans do.


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## I Own 2 Microwaves (May 30, 2007)

kinda OT:

who is the best white american basketball player in the leauge right now?

Kirk Hinrich?


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## Babe Ruth (Dec 6, 2006)

Jason Kidd is probably the best today.


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## NOODLESTYLE (Jan 20, 2005)

Ka-Bosh said:


> Jason Kidd is probably the best today.


Jason Kidd is part black, therefore not considered a White Man.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Pau Gasol is a white man.


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## NOODLESTYLE (Jan 20, 2005)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Who the hell cares what color a person is, or where they're from?


In the US, many people do care and this topic is a perfect example of that. That is a good question tho, I'm sure Hollywood has the answer to that.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Kyakko said:


> SOCIOeconomic... maybe baseball is more popular for poor caucasian people. and minorities are much poorer by percentage. what state are you referring to btw?


"In 49 other states it's just basketball"

is a motto of Indiana .

a state of 6.5 million people thats 90% white.

not exactly what you would call a rich state.

and anyway you slice it the amount of poor white people is much larger than poor black ones or hispanic or asian or even all of them combined.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

NOODLESTYLE said:


> In the US, many people do care and this topic is a perfect example of that. That is a good question tho, I'm sure Hollywood has the answer to that.



not really. Atleast not me.


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## NOODLESTYLE (Jan 20, 2005)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> not really. Atleast not me.


then why care to even post in this topic?


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Your right, I shouldn't even waste my time here! I'm not worried about the status of white player in basketball. Don't know why anybody else should be.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Ka-Bosh said:


> This is a well written topic. Back in the day Basketball was a blue collar's type of game. That's why players like Larry Bird, Pete Marivich, Bob Cousy, Jerry West, Bob Petit and Chris Mullen to name a few players excelled so much. They could all shoot the lights out, and play good defence. When players like Julius Erving, Connie Hawkins, David Thompson, and Michael Jordan entered the league the game changed. There wasn't anymore lay ups. Instead players stuffed the ball into the basket. And that's the type of game we still play today. Which makes it harder for caucasions because they don't have the ability's as african americans do.


Good post. Thing is Bird,Petit and West would still be 1st or 2nd team all pro players. Bird's game speaks for itself, Petit was the original powerforward, average something rediculous like 25 and 15 and West was the consumate guard for decades, he used to give Russell fits with his forays to the rim. Foreign players seem to have taken up the slack for some of those guys and we're still searching for the great white american player to resurface. Someone years ago made the comment that white guys were trying to be like Mike and not Larry, maybe that's what happened.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

This thread is dumber than Bogut.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

I actually think its a thread that is interesting and elicits a lot of good responses(and some dumb ones), anyone that says the subject hasnt crossed their minds is lying. I guess we could just have more Kobe threads or how about whether Lebron has grown over the summer.


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## Babe Ruth (Dec 6, 2006)

Here's a few White American players that are pretty good.

Chris Kaman
Luke Walton
Brad Miller
Kirk Hinrich
Troy Murphy
Matt Carroll
Jason Williams
Steve Blake
Nick Collison
Luke Ridnour
Matt Harpring
Wally Szczerbiak (born in Spain but is American)


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## Christian (Apr 28, 2006)

.....


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Ka-Bosh said:


> This is a well written topic. Back in the day Basketball was a blue collar's type of game. That's why players like* Larry Bird, Pete Marivich, Bob Cousy, Jerry West, Bob Petit and Chris Mullen* to name a few players excelled so much. They could all shoot the lights out, and play good defence. When players like Julius Erving, Connie Hawkins, David Thompson, and Michael Jordan entered the league the game changed. There wasn't anymore lay ups. Instead players stuffed the ball into the basket. And that's the type of game we still play today. Which makes it harder for caucasions because they don't have the ability's as african americans do.


They played good defense? Thats news to me.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

I'm pretty sure West is known as an elite defender..

And Bird played excellent team defense.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

Who cares? The best guys make it, Im not into finding ways to get certain races more involved. Whether it be white basketball athletes, black head coaches, ect.

Its 2007, lets move on


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Who cares? The best guys make it, Im not into finding ways to get certain races more involved. Whether it be white basketball athletes, black head coaches, ect.
> 
> Its 2007, lets move on


agreed


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Who cares? The best guys make it, Im not into finding ways to get certain races more involved. Whether it be white basketball athletes, black head coaches, ect.
> 
> Its 2007, lets move on


Lets. You could make a case for this is any sport. "Death of the 'Black' American Hockey Player", for example.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Who cares though. I think people want to watch the most talented players, play that sport. And if theres better black players than white player in basketball, and better white player than black players in Hockey, than so be it. Atleast you know, your watching the most talented players in that sport.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Who cares though. I think people want to watch the most talented players, play that sport. And if theres better black players than white player in basketball, and better white player than black players in Hockey, than so be it. Atleast you know, your watching the most talented players in that sport.


Right - political correctness will send the world to hell. :biggrin:


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