# Shaq talkin' smack



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

"It's not going to matter," Shaq continued in the LA Daily News. "You know that. The whole world knows it's not going to matter. You know why? Because I'm back now. Last year, I was a little banged up. But no team is a powerhouse, and no team scares me. And I'm upset and I'm (ticked) off. A lot of people doubting me. The old Shaq will be back, talking (smack), starting fights, getting my legs up when I dunk. I'm back now. I'm mad now." 

Promising to start fights and to do more hanging on the rim... now thats pure basketball excitement...

STOMP


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

Shaq will never learn that all of his talk always backfires


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

lol...Shaq will be Shaq. If he's in better shape than last season, he will be a force.

Is it just me or does anyone else think Shaq and Warren Sapp are exactly the same personality ?


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

I like sapp because hes serious , shaq tries to be serious to comes up to be goofy


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

*a GAURANTEE...*

if shaq is in better shape then it is automatic that LA wins the title...100% gaurantee and a fact...bad for us and the rest of the league but it is the truth


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> Shaq will never learn that all of his talk always backfires


Uhm more so then not, when Shaq talks he follows through.

-Petey


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> now thats pure basketball excitement...


Sorry sir, but it looks like you mispelled excrement.


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

Man. Imma love this season coming up. Shaq is the mother****ing truth. Shaq pissed off is a bad man and when hes bad hes unstoppable. Starting fights. Banging on opposition teams Hanging on the rim. kicking fools in the face. Shaq is poetry in motion baby. Is a beautiful thing to watch. The daddy is back. GP pushing it on the break with Shaq and Mailman bulldozing the middle clean and Kobe on the wing. Damn.

FO FO FO FO


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

If Shaq lives up to his words, it's bad for the rest of the L, very bad! :yes:


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

Shaq always does. I smell 75 wins and a title.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

Just Shaq talking out of his butt once again. What a class act he is...he will be starting fights again...what a joke. He has no class whatsoever and can learn alot from guys like Tim Duncan. Timmy may not be as flashy as Shaq or Kobe but he does it with class and great skill. I hope LA and Shaq gets punked this year. I wonder how long Kobe will be in jail.


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

Damn I wish I can be like Tim the tinman Duncan. No heart, no clutchness, no excitement. I wish I was Tinman, If I was like Tim I can bore the country into the lowest rating finals ever. If I was like Tim I can win 2 * titles in 5 years. If I was like Tim I can blow 20 point 4th quarter leads that the refs gave me. 

Shaq is 10x more entertaining then Duncan. I want to watch Rasheed Wallace play the Blazer vs Laker series were entertaining with all of the Sheed technical fouls and Rick Fox enforcing. And damn those games were actually fair and came without crooked refs.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

You guys may disagree with this.....but I think the 2004 Los Angeles Lakers are the biggest sellout's in league history. 

Sure Karl Malone and Gary Payton want to win a championship, but they havent done it the way the "true" winners of basketball history have. Guys like Jordan and Bird took guys with them who were realistically just average on their own individually, lifted their hopes and intensity and went all the way to the championship. I do respect however that they are playing for a pitance of what they would be worth on the open market. However....if they had really wanted to win all along though, why didnt they do that years ago and play for less to enable their team to sign more quality team mates? It all just seems a little sellout-ish to me.

I think LA will win this year based on the amount of talent they have at their disposal for sure....allowing for injuries and should Kobe be aquitted as well. But the thing that pisses me off about the way they will win, is that Shaquille called these guys up on the phone and asked them personally to come. He said..."I need you...you need me", "together, we will rule the universe". Such a cop out if you ask me. If Shaq just got himself fit like he was in 99-2000, the Lakers wouldnt even need the extra help. With arguably the best off guard in the league on his side still, the Lakes had the talent already in place. 

I'm disappointed in Malone and Payton. I have always pretty much respected the way they have shown commitment to their clubs and play on the court until now. One things for sure for me, their rings will feel very hollow indeed!


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

As Abraham Lincoln said, "We shall see what we shall see". This is an old team that no longer has a very strong supporting cast. And Kobe has probably more than a 50% chance of jail. While I agree this team is going to be the draw of the decade, I can't concede it a championship until it's over. I no longer have an axe to grind with Shaq, but his arrogant act really is wearing a bit thin.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*yeah,I sure am worried*

After all,he lost 15 pounds!:laugh:


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

You guys are forgetting even if he is healthy he's not the same Shaq that tore up the L over two years ago. That added weight and injuries has to have taken it's toll on him. Im not saying he wont be good, I'm just saying forgive me if im not shaking in my boots. Dont be surprised if Duncan ***** slaps him again this year and sends him home crying again.


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## kit2les05 (Jun 3, 2003)

yall bash shaq, but he is the most dominant player in the world. he did have a bad season according to his standards, but damn any other center would love having his bad season. i would love shaq on my team. i really hope he comes out and kills the west.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker4peat</b>!
> Damn I wish I can be like Tim the tinman Duncan. No heart, no clutchness, no excitement. I wish I was Tinman, If I was like Tim I can bore the country into the lowest rating finals ever. If I was like Tim I can win 2 * titles in 5 years. If I was like Tim I can blow 20 point 4th quarter leads that the refs gave me.
> 
> Shaq is 10x more entertaining then Duncan. I want to watch Rasheed Wallace play the Blazer vs Laker series were entertaining with all of the Sheed technical fouls and Rick Fox enforcing. And damn those games were actually fair and came without crooked refs.


You left out the part about Tim Duncan completely dominating the LA Lakers and making Shaq irrelevant.

Shaq's comments are exactly groundbreaking for him. He was talking smack all of last season too. And you see where it got them. As long as the lakers think they can just come in and win because of the names on the jerseys, they are going to lose to teams like the Spurs. You'd think their loss had taught them some humility...but it sounds like the same ol' arrogant lakers.

I wouldn't be suprised if the lakers didn't even make it to the WCF this year.

I doubt the lakers get more than 57 wins. They have never, ever cared about the regular season. No matter what the say in the offseason. Remember all the talk last offseason?


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

I hope they call him for T's for doing chinups on the rim like they do for the rest of the players in the league. I hope that he starts zero fights as that disgraces the game IMO. If he's healthy and in shape there is little doubt of his talent, but his moronic thuggish blatherings are a big turn off to many of the casual fans the league is trying to attract. Of course us hardcores who talk hoops year round will be tuning in regardless, but I wish he'd just shut up and play ball.

STOMP


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> You left out the part about Tim Duncan completely dominating the LA Lakers and making Shaq irrelevant.
> ...


Look at his user name, then his post quality rating. There are some people you just shouldn't bother to try to reason with. I'm with you though -- Lakers will win between 55-60 games, and I think I actually predicted 57 a few weeks back.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Between Shaq's moronic comments, GP's trash talking, and Kobe's issues I think all the Lakers games will be similar to WWF (IMO it stands for Whitetrash Wrestling Federation).


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

Shaq is entertaining and a good interview. Yet, I'm beyond tired of hearing is moronic rhymes, statements, and quote me BS. It was fun at first (years ago) but now it's really getting quite old and really boring.


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## magnifier (Jul 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker4peat</b>!
> Shaq always does. I smell 75 wins and a title.


Well since your moniker shows your guarantee of a 4-peat didn't come true, I doubt there is any justification to your prediction.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> You guys may disagree with this.....but I think the 2004 Los Angeles Lakers are the biggest sellout's in league history.
> 
> Sure Karl Malone and Gary Payton want to win a championship, but they havent done it the way the "true" winners of basketball history have. Guys like Jordan and Bird took guys with them who were realistically just average on their own individually, lifted their hopes and intensity and went all the way to the championship.


This sell out argument is getting old and simply childish. First of all, I wouldn't consider Parish, McHale...and all those other HOF'ers average, so your argument about Bird is without merit and is simply wrong. Jordan did lift his teammates, but he did have Pip and other 3rd and 4th options that Malone and GP never had. 



> I do respect however that they are playing for a pitance of what they would be worth on the open market. However....if they had really wanted to win all along though, why didnt they do that years ago and play for less to enable their team to sign more quality team mates? It all just seems a little sellout-ish to me.


Do you seriously believe that they didn't want to win all along their careers? That is simply rediculous. And to answer your question, they didn't take a paycut before because #1 in the NBA you've got to make your money asap (you never know when an injury might take you out), and #2 they felt that they ould win and make their money at the same time. Now they found themselves in situations where they either had to go to another team or lose on their pathetic teams. Leaving proves that they want to win and if you're going to leave why not go to somewhere you can get a ring? 



> I think LA will win this year based on the amount of talent they have at their disposal for sure....allowing for injuries and should Kobe be aquitted as well. But the thing that pisses me off about the way they will win, is that Shaquille called these guys up on the phone and asked them personally to come. He said..."I need you...you need me", "together, we will rule the universe". Such a cop out if you ask me. If Shaq just got himself fit like he was in 99-2000, the Lakers wouldnt even need the extra help. With arguably the best off guard in the league on his side still, the Lakes had the talent already in place.


Clearly as shown by the lakers performance last year they wouldn't have the talent. Shaq will never be as he was. When you're a big guy and have injuries and are getting old, you can't just go out and get back into shape. But I don't think he really wanted to anyway, he has a family and a life, and doesn't want to spend his whole offseason working out. So, he went out and got what he needed to get him another ring. Yes, he is making silly comments about how the old Shaq will be back. No, he is not talking out of his butt, as one previous poster immaturely proposed. He is saying this to hype his team, get viewers, and make more money for himself and the Lakers. The more Shaq gets in the media, the more he sells seats, burgers, crunch bars....
This gets him more money/sponsors. Shaq is a master of this business, so get over it.



> I'm disappointed in Malone and Payton. I have always pretty much respected the way they have shown commitment to their clubs and play on the court until now. One things for sure for me, their rings will feel very hollow indeed!


Again, this argument is lame. GP and Malone were in a no win situation. They could have stayed and lost with their teams, then their careers without rings would have been "hollow". Or they could join a contending team and work for a championship and get a ring. Others may think the ring is "hollow", but they will not feel this way. And this move is all about them at this point in their careers. They dont care if you feel the ring is hollow, they'll be laughing all the way to the HOF. Its like us regular people who think lotto winners are undeserving millionaires. Those lotto winners dont care what we think, they got what they wanted.

Please do respond, if you can provide a decent argument against mine.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> This sell out argument is getting old and simply childish.


The same could be said about Shaq opening his big dumb mouth. I actually think we are well beyond old and childish. :no:


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> Is it just me or does anyone else think Shaq and Warren Sapp are exactly the same personality ?


They sure play the game the same way...too bad they play different sports.

Similar builds too.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> 
> Guys like Jordan and Bird took guys with them who were realistically just average on their own individually


You mean, aside from the Hall of Famers Jordan and Bird played with?


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> The same could be said about Shaq opening his big dumb mouth. I actually think we are well beyond old and childish. :no:


Please, actually read my post. There is a reason why he does this. Who cares what a few anti-Lakers think. The sponsors who pay him care about him drawing Laker fans to eat their burgers, crunch bars....

Shaq knows that people who don't like him wont be swayed to buy the things he markets anyway. So he doesn't care if he offends you or not. You dont matter. People that like Shaq and like it when he talks smack will want to be like Shaq and buy the products he pushes. And since we like him in So. Cal. (where his commercials are on) we don't mind him being in the news. Besides, its good for the NBA as a whole too.

Unfortunately, it takes some intelligence to know why Shaq is always talking smack and trying to get in the news. That is why many people do not understand.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker4peat</b>!
> And damn those games were actually fair and came without crooked refs.




Translation:

Lakers win = refs were fair
Lakers lose = refs were crooked


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A little bitter, are we?

 :laugh:


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## Arizona Bay (Jan 3, 2003)

> Shaq is poetry in motion baby.


That is easily the funniest statement I've read on BBB.net.

Despite losing the WCF, and despite the Kobe fiasco, it's good to see Laker fans haven't lost their zeal for the absurd.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> Please, actually read my post.
> 
> Shaq knows that people who don't like him wont be swayed to buy the things he markets anyway. So he doesn't care if he offends you or not. You dont matter. People that like Shaq and like it when he talks smack will want to be like Shaq and buy the products he pushes. And since we like him in So. Cal. (where his commercials are on) we don't mind him being in the news. Besides, its good for the NBA as a whole too.


I read your post, and I'm pretty sure I understand your points. I just disagree with them. If you are arguably the very best of the game and a physical freak of nature like Shaq is with his size, do you really need to act like a classless bafoon to sell burgers? I thought MJ did a pretty good job of moving products without resorting to childish public taunts. Yeah some people love the trash talk, but the casual sports fan (which is a good slice of the burger buying American public) finds that to be behavior that they dont stand behind and don't really want their kid to emulate. I haven't a study to site, but I know the overall ratings have not been nearly as good since MJ. I don't think its much of a stretch to say that part of this reason is because Americans have not embraced Shaq (as the league standard bearer) like they did Mike. 

I think it would be better for the NBA if he would show more class, not publicly promising to start fights.

STOMP


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker4peat</b>!
> Shaq always does. I smell 75 wins and a title.


Is that what "75 wins and a title" smells like?

I could've swore that smell was something else. There's a high probability that they are both one and the same.

Stuart


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> I read your post, and I'm pretty sure I understand your points. I just disagree with them. If you are arguably the very best of the game and a physical freak of nature like Shaq is with his size, do you really need to act like a classless bafoon to sell burgers?


Clearly you do not know Shaq's personality. Classless buffoon (you spelled it wrong) is a close description of him, but it is not correct. Shaq believes he is a comedian. And in fact, I think many of the things he does are funny. For example, remember the dribble through the legs at the All-Star game? I was rolling on the floor. Shaq is all about doing things “tongue-in-cheek”, meaning, everything he does is not meant to be taken seriously. If you saw Shaq say some of these things, you could tell this by the expression on his face that he’s not being serious, just trash talking/hyping. 



> I thought MJ did a pretty good job of moving products without resorting to childish public taunts.


MJ moved products because he was the only big name of the time. And MJ’s personality is different that Shaq’s, so get over it. Why would you want Shaq to be someone he isn’t, if you want classy athletes go watch golf, Basketball does not have this culture. Its not like MJ didn’t trash talk on the court. Should I call him a hypocrite that was a faker? No let him do what he wants to. If you don’t like it, don’t buy the burgers and don't support the team. There's no use complaining, becuase as I said in the other post, he doesn't care if he offends you or not. You dont matter. (read the other post for more)



> Yeah some people love the trash talk, but the casual sports fan (which is a good slice of the burger buying American public) finds that to be behavior that they dont stand behind and don't really want their kid to emulate. I haven't a study to site, but I know the overall ratings have not been nearly as good since MJ. I don't think its much of a stretch to say that part of this reason is because Americans have not embraced Shaq (as the league standard bearer) like they did Mike.


Hmmm, I don’t know about you but the casual sports fan doesn’t mind trash talk, they know its part of the game. And nobody should want their kid to emulate any basketball player. I’m not a proponent of swearing or trash talking; I was simply explaining why Shaq does this sort of thing in response to the poster’s question. I don’t have a study to site either, but I’d guess that the ratings were high because MJ was an unbelievable player, not because he didn’t trash talk in the media. That is why they embraced MJ, and besides that fact that there was nobody else to embrace. If Shaq were the only guy in town like MJ was, I’d bet he’d have been as popular as MJ. Now we have Shaq, Kobe (not many embracing him lately), AI, T-Mac, Kidd, Duncan, and the list goes on. There is no single standard bearer anymore.



> I think it would be better for the NBA if he would show more class, not publicly promising to start fights.
> 
> STOMP


You are focusing on the fight part a bit too much, I’m sure that was tongue-in-cheek because the old Shaq was not known for doing that. And I completely disagree, it would not be better for the NBA if he showed more class because then he would be like Duncan, and look at the ratings he pulled.


And please, feel free to respond if you can refute these arguments.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> Clearly you do not know Shaq's personality. Classless buffoon (you spelled it wrong) is a close description of him, but it is not correct. Shaq believes he is a comedian.


I don't know his personality and you do? It must be so because you said it, how could I refute that? 

I didn't say he is a classless baffoon, I said he acts like one. You alluded to him being the master of this business (marketing to us), implying that his behavior is a concious decision. I agreed that his public persona is one he chooses to project. Believe it or not, I've followed him since his freshman year at LSU and am formiliar with his childish antics and the many fights he's started over the years. Occationally he's been able to get me to laugh with him, but more often then not he leaves me shaking my head wondering why this guy thinks he's funny, and why he's tossing potencial marketing dollars out the window with offensive statements.

Thanks for correcting my spelling, heres you from another thread with your own spelling blunder... much funnier then mine IMO.



> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> Can you provide any intellignet argument?


I know spelling is not my strong suit, but maybe you could stay away from pretending you are the typing/grammer police and keep the discussion on hoops.



> MJ moved products because he was the only big name of the time. And MJ’s personality is different that Shaq’s, so get over it.


Now thats an interesting statement. MJ played with many of the all time greats in a golden age for hoops popularity. Guys who were household names throughout the country and known for both their talents and personalities like Barkley, Bird, Magic, GP, and many others. His team just regularly beat them all, so he was recognised as the best of the best. 

I think the fact that Mike was well spoken and publicly gracious towards his opponents once the game was over, made him more respectable and marketable to more/most American consumers. Yes Shaq has a different personality then MJ, hey we're all beautiful snowflakes, but Mike recognised the importance of when it's time to not talk trash and just smile for the camera. Suggesting that Mike was a hypocrite for understanding that some behavior is inappropriate at certain times (if improving his marketability and more $$$ is a goal), is downright silly IMO.



> You are focusing on the fight part a bit too much, I’m sure that was tongue-in-cheek because the old Shaq was not known for doing that. And I completely disagree, it would not be better for the NBA if he showed more class because then he would be like Duncan, and look at the ratings he pulled


If Shaq didn't have a long history of starting fights, then I'd be much more open to the view you just expressed. But he does... How many guys have swung on him first over the years? 

I haven't seen the clip form this interview (is there one?), just reading, but how do you think this marketing master thinks it reads when he promises an LA Times collumnist he's real mad and going to go out and be the old Shaq starting fights and hanging on the rim and such?

I think the TimmyD ratings reference is a poor one as he plays for San Antonio, not one of the top markets in the world. If he's ever representing a major market, I'd bet the ratings, and his marketability, would raise significantly (though I don't know whether he would have his own frangrance like MJ). Market size is why LA and NY are on national TV most every Sunday regardless of whether the team is good or not that year, or who is on the team. They just have a lot more people tuning in to root for them. It's very likely that market size and all the endorsement opprotunities that come with it is the main reason why Shaq and Kobe are in LA in the first place. I can fill you in on those storylines if you like... 

IMO the other major factor that kept the casual fan away from the last finals in droves, was that NJ didn't have a chance in the view of most fans and collumnists going in. I think Jersey would have had their hands full with Utah (the 8th seed in the West) and lost to anyone above that. That they took two games was considered a very respectable showwing on their part.



> And please, feel free to respond if you can refute these arguments.


Thanks, I'll extend the same polite offer to you.

STOMP


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

Fights are good for the game. What would a sport be without fighting. I question the players desire and testicular fortitude if he doesnt start fights on court. Yall tell me you never got pissed off and started a fight when you play ball??? The NBA is like that but more at stake so there should be more fights. Basketball is a contact sport this aint golf so I want to see fights. 

57 wins for Lakers are you  different in the head??? Youre telling me this team cant beat last seasons win total??? please. Look man, Shaq was out 20 games and fat for the rest. Mark bloody Madsen was starting at pf and Fisher had no backup. A healthy Shaq, Mailman at PF and GP at point guard cant beat 57 wins?? You got your numbers messed up its 75. Shaq and Kobe are worth 60 wins at least if healthy. Malone is worth 40 wins like he did with Utahs scrub team and GP is still the man. 75 or nothing. FOUR

FOUR


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> First of all, I wouldn't consider Parish, McHale...and all those other HOF'ers average, so your argument about Bird is without merit and is simply wrong. Jordan did lift his teammates, but he did have Pip and other 3rd and 4th options that Malone and GP never had.
> 
> ...


Ok...I did say you guys may disagree, but its just my opionion thats all. Realistically, I'm just a fan of this great game and I sometimes just see things differently than other fans like yourself do. I do however respect your opinion and will respond as best as I can.

Firstly,

I still think my Bird argument is valid because sure Kevin McHale was a brilliant pro...but just because Robert Parish is now a HOF'er....doesnt mean he was the most talented player. There were alot of more talented players around the league who would have done more for the Celtics had they been in his situation. He has entered the Hall because he showed an amazing ammount of endurance throughtout his career and holds many records. He also was a great ambassador for the game by proving to be a very honourable opponent for all players in the league. He played hard...and he played fair. Sure McHale was an amazing player, but he will never be seen as what he could have been because of his injuries which really affected the way in which he could play the game. Bird was the leader and took these guys to the top. The Celtics certainly wouldnt have even gotten close without him.

Gary Payton has had very deep teams to play with by the way. He had Shawn Kemp who was All League at the time, Detlef Schremph who was an All Star, Hersey Hawkins...who was a very handy backcourt partner and Sam Perkins who has had a fine decade + NBA career. Not exactly chumps either huh. Not superstars either though...on the other hand!

Malone has had Stockton all along...together with Hornacek and several other good NBA role players. Outside of Stockton and Hornacek...I wouldnt say his teams were as deep as Payton's though.

As for your money thing. I never have understood why so many NBA players are ruled so much by money. I realise money is so important in todays world, and maybe im just a traditionalist, but I dont think a player should be tuning there whole career around what they get paid. Even if they are earning NBA minimum wage...they are still getting more than 99% of the rest of us...and a very good lifestyle.
I hope someone comes into the league someday who once his rookie contract is up...accepts an identical deal so as their team can sign other talented players to play along side...and win. Its all not so much about the game anymore is it??:uhoh: 

Last...Dont ever say that when you get old that you cant just get back into the shape you once were in. I'm 6 foot 9". A big guy too (not like Shaq however...HE'S HUGE). Anyway....I stopped playing after I broke my left ankle when I was younger. Sat out for three years to let it heel completely....but I'm back in the shape I was before but even better. You cant say its not an option to go and get fit again. Its just a matter of will within the mind. If Shaq really wanted to go out and get back to the shape he once was in....I think he could. Once again....you may disagree but its my opinion. He of course may not even want to...like you said how he is more worried about his family life etc etc. Reports have shown that he has lost weight and is training the house down....I guess we'll see when the season starts.

Well man....thanks for a good discussion so far....write back if you would like to retort.

Cheers.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> Unfortunately, it takes some intelligence to know why Shaq is always talking smack and trying to get in the news. That is why many people do not understand.


Intelligence and Shaq should never be used in the same sentence bud...what a complete JOKE!!! :laugh:


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> 
> Intelligence and Shaq should never be used in the same sentence bud...what a complete JOKE!!! :laugh:


This comment is worthless and does not add to the debate. Please, Shaq, although he fools around a lot, is no moron. Anyone who excels in as many areas as he has (Sports, Law Enforcement, Movies, Marketing, Business, Real Estate, Rap Music...) must be intelligent to some degree. Its rather easy to infer that someone is unintelligent while anonymously posting on the internet. What are your accomplishments, so we can see if you are intelligent? Please, lay off Shaq, he's no dummy.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> 
> I still think my Bird argument is valid because sure Kevin McHale was a brilliant pro...but just because Robert Parish is now a HOF'er....doesnt mean he was the most talented player. There were alot of more talented players around the league who would have done more for the Celtics had they been in his situation. He has entered the Hall because he showed an amazing ammount of endurance throughtout his career and holds many records. He also was a great ambassador for the game by proving to be a very honourable opponent for all players in the league. He played hard...and he played fair. Sure McHale was an amazing player, but he will never be seen as what he could have been because of his injuries which really affected the way in which he could play the game. Bird was the leader and took these guys to the top. The Celtics certainly wouldnt have even gotten close without him.


Yes, but your argument here was based on Bird lifting average players. Parish is no average player. None the less, other than Kobe, Shaq never had anyone with the talent of Parish or McHale to "lift" and take to a championship. All Shaq had was Kobe and role players…true average player that by no means had the talent of Parish and McHale. To prove my point again, the best options Shaq has had on the Lakers were Rice and Grant, who by no means = Parish/McHale and will not reach the HOF.



> Gary Payton has had very deep teams to play with by the way. He had Shawn Kemp who was All League at the time, Detlef Schremph who was an All Star, Hersey Hawkins...who was a very handy backcourt partner and Sam Perkins who has had a fine decade + NBA career. Not exactly chumps either huh. Not superstars either though...on the other hand!
> 
> Malone has had Stockton all along...together with Hornacek and several other good NBA role players. Outside of Stockton and Hornacek...I wouldnt say his teams were as deep as Payton's though.


You make a good point, but your argument is flawed by one single fact. The Sonics and Jazz (Malone and GP) would have ruled the 90’s if Jordan never existed. So you can’t knock these guys for not leading their teams to a championship (especially since they got so darn close) when they had the unfortunate luck to play during the Jordan era. Without MJ, the Jazz would have ruled the 90’s and the Sonics would have won 1-2 rings. Disagree? This being said, you cant blame them for taking this opportunity to win rings since MJ took them from them so many times.



> As for your money thing. I never have understood why so many NBA players are ruled so much by money. I realise money is so important in todays world, and maybe im just a traditionalist, but I dont think a player should be tuning there whole career around what they get paid. Even if they are earning NBA minimum wage...they are still getting more than 99% of the rest of us...and a very good lifestyle.
> I hope someone comes into the league someday who once his rookie contract is up...accepts an identical deal so as their team can sign other talented players to play along side...and win. Its all not so much about the game anymore is it??:uhoh:


Then why are you knocking them for doing this now, you are not being very consistent or fair. In addition, obviously greed comes into play, but I always try to make as much money as I can. Sure, I’m still making more than 50% of the people in the USA and have a very good lifestyle, but why not try to make more to ensure my children are taken care of? I’m not going to take a pay cut anytime soon.



> Last...Dont ever say that when you get old that you cant just get back into the shape you once were in. I'm 6 foot 9". A big guy too (not like Shaq however...HE'S HUGE). Anyway....I stopped playing after I broke my left ankle when I was younger. Sat out for three years to let it heel completely....but I'm back in the shape I was before but even better. You cant say its not an option to go and get fit again. Its just a matter of will within the mind. If Shaq really wanted to go out and get back to the shape he once was in....I think he could. Once again....you may disagree but its my opinion. He of course may not even want to...like you said how he is more worried about his family life etc etc. Reports have shown that he has lost weight and is training the house down....I guess we'll see when the season starts.
> 
> Well man....thanks for a good discussion so far....write back if you would like to retort.
> 
> Cheers.


Not bad, 6’9” huh? Well its one thing to sit out 3 yrs and get back into “shape” assuming you are in your 20’s. It’s another thing to be in your 30’s like Shaq and try to get into the shape required for the NBA. Especially with the injuries Shaq has. Certainly Shaq’s will is partially to blame for not getting back into shape. But these other factors are as well. I don’t blame Shaq’s lack of will though. Its wrong what the league does to Shaq. There is a separate set of rules as to what a foul is when you are fouling Shaq. He takes a beating every night and I think he’s over this league. There are more important things to him than the NBA now because the NBA has singled him out as someone you are allowed to foul and beat on because he is so big. Anyway, I’ll end my off topic rant here. Thank you too for the good discussion. I tire of the mental lightweights on this forum and am glad to see someone with good arguments that actually challenge me.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Guys like Muhamed Ali, Terrell Owens and Shaq are great for sports. They add interest to the game and make you hate them or love them more. Why do guys like STOMP start threads about Shaq and watch so many Laker games? Probably because he hates them so much.

I don't see any Tim Duncan threads on the Portland board with 35+ posts.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> I don't know his personality and you do? It must be so because you said it, how could I refute that?


Thank you for submitting to this part of the debate. And yes, I think I have a pretty clear picture of his personality, from all the articles, news clips, and shows he gets on. The guy thinks he is a comedian and toys with the media all the time. Besides, realizing this would be hearsay, I have friend who know people in the Lakers organization. 



> I didn't say he is a classless baffoon, I said he acts like one. You alluded to him being the master of this business (marketing to us), implying that his behavior is a concious decision. I agreed that his public persona is one he chooses to project. Believe it or not, I've followed him since his freshman year at LSU and am formiliar with his childish antics and the many fights he's started over the years. Occationally he's been able to get me to laugh with him, but more often then not he leaves me shaking my head wondering why this guy thinks he's funny, and why he's tossing potencial marketing dollars out the window with offensive statements.


So you agree with me. Great, that ends that debate. And by the way, no comedian gets a laugh on every joke. 



> If Shaq didn't have a long history of starting fights, then I'd be much more open to the view you just expressed. But he does... How many guys have swung on him first over the years?


Please, enlighten me on the many fights Shaq has started. Did you ever consider that people excessively fouling him actually start those fights? Even with that, Shaq doesn’t have the persona of one that gets into a lot of fights like those losers on the Blazers or Sprewell (who also hasn’t gotten into that many fights).



> Thanks for correcting my spelling, heres you from another thread with your own spelling blunder... much funnier then mine IMO. I know spelling is not my strong suit, but maybe you could stay away from pretending you are the typing/grammer police and keep the discussion on hoops.


Stomp, I cant believe you spent the time to look through other threads to find this mistake. In addition, this is not a spelling error, it is a typo. Also, I was not knocking your spelling capabilities, I corrected it to ensure that you meant to say buffoon instead of baboon, which would not be racially sensitive. Forgive me if you felt I was talking down to you. This was not my intent as you now know. I read and enjoy many of your posts Stomp and respect you as a good poster.



> Now thats an interesting statement. MJ played with many of the all time greats in a golden age for hoops popularity. Guys who were household names throughout the country and known for both their talents and personalities like Barkley, Bird, Magic, GP, and many others. His team just regularly beat them all, so he was recognised as the best of the best. I think the fact that Mike was well spoken and publicly gracious towards his opponents once the game was over, made him more respectable and marketable to more/most American consumers. Yes Shaq has a different personality then MJ, hey we're all beautiful snowflakes, but Mike recognised the importance of when it's time to not talk trash and just smile for the camera. Suggesting that Mike was a hypocrite for understanding that some behavior is inappropriate at certain times (if improving his marketability and more $$$ is a goal), is downright silly IMO.


First of all, I’m talking about the MJ era, which I consider to be after Magic and Bird. Secondly, GP and Barkley are no where near the league MJ is/was in. Maybe I should have worded this better in my post but MJ was in a league of his own. He moved products because he was the NBA. It’s like Tiger (except for this year) compared to all the other no names in golf. I would’nt say Barkley and GP were household names…for example my wife doesn’t watch bball but she knows MJ’s name, but doesn’t know who Barkley or GP were/are. That is why MJ got the endorsement deals. Sure, if Shaq was more classy he might get more deals…but that’s not his personality and its not who he is. If he tried to be someone he isn’t to make more money, everyone would see right through it. So Shaq is doing what works best for him, acting like a tough guy, and it seems to be working just fine for him, the Lakers, and the NBA.




> I haven't seen the clip form this interview (is there one?), just reading, but how do you think this marketing master thinks it reads when he promises an LA Times collumnist he's real mad and going to go out and be the old Shaq starting fights and hanging on the rim and such?


I said “If you saw Shaq say some of these things” not that there is a clip for this. On interviews I’ve seen where he talks trash you can tell this by the expression on his face that he’s not being serious. He knows the media will play it as him calling out other teams and I think its obvious that it is a marketing ploy rather than a “dis” to those players/teams.



> I think the TimmyD ratings reference is a poor one as he plays for San Antonio, not one of the top markets in the world. If he's ever representing a major market, I'd bet the ratings, and his marketability, would raise significantly (though I don't know whether he would have his own frangrance like MJ). Market size is why LA and NY are on national TV most every Sunday regardless of whether the team is good or not that year, or who is on the team. They just have a lot more people tuning in to root for them. It's very likely that market size and all the endorsement opprotunities that come with it is the main reason why Shaq and Kobe are in LA in the first place. I can fill you in on those storylines if you like...


This argument is off topic and was from a different thread. The argument was whether nice guy TD was better for the NBA than Shaq. The TD reference is a perfect one!!! Please, compare the Laker/Nets finals nationwide ratings to the Spurs/Nets finals. The nice guy boring TD doesn’t draw viewers like Shaq does. Sure many of the numbers were from LA, but I’m talking about nationwide numbers. 

Now if this were golf, tennis, or a women’s sport it might be a different story. 

And the NY Knicks are not always on national tv. 



> IMO the other major factor that kept the casual fan away from the last finals in droves, was that NJ didn't have a chance in the view of most fans and collumnists going in. I think Jersey would have had their hands full with Utah (the 8th seed in the West) and lost to anyone above that. That they took two games was considered a very respectable showwing on their part.


NJ’s lack of a chance also existed the year they played the Lakers, so your argument there is unfounded.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> Guys like Muhamed Ali, Terrell Owens and Shaq are great for sports. They add interest to the game and make you hate them or love them more. Why do guys like STOMP start threads about Shaq and watch so many Laker games? Probably because he hates them so much.
> 
> I don't see any Tim Duncan threads on the Portland board with 35+ posts.



Amen, especially about the last point. Good points Jemel.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> Guys like Muhamed Ali, Terrell Owens and Shaq are great for sports. They add interest to the game and make you hate them or love them more. Why do guys like STOMP start threads about Shaq and watch so many Laker games? Probably because he hates them so much.
> 
> I don't see any Tim Duncan threads on the Portland board with 35+ posts.


we don't have 35+ posts regarding Duncan because he doesn't have guys who troll any comments regarding Shaq, and defend him (and kobe) to the hilt as if it was a personal attack on himself.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

Amen to that Hap...:yes:


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> we don't have 35+ posts regarding Duncan because he doesn't have guys who troll any comments regarding Shaq, and defend him (and kobe) to the hilt as if it was a personal attack on himself.


That's a good theory, my theory is that you don't have them because you don't care enough to start them.

And who are the true trolls? The guys doing the constant bashing or the constant defending? If I started a "stupid jail blazer buffons" thread and 40 Blazer fans started defending them would they be trolls?

And before you give me the "its our forum" reply its not. The board is for discussion of the Blazers, not the home of Blazer fans.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> That's a good theory, my theory is that you don't have them because you don't care enough to start them.


actually, for being the world champs last year, the Spurs group is deader than Abe Lincoln.


> And who are the true trolls? The guys doing the constant bashing or the constant defending? If I started a "stupid jail blazer buffons" thread and 40 Blazer fans started defending them would they be trolls?


If they responded with the same style that a lot of the ones did here, yes they would be. 



> And before you give me the "its our forum" reply its not. The board is for discussion of the Blazers, not the home of Blazer fans.


I wasn't actually going to give the "it's our forum", but in a sense, if I went to the Lakers forum, and started defending the Blazers with the same gusto, you think that I wouldn't come off like a troll?


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> And before you give me the "its our forum" reply its not. The board is for discussion of the Blazers, not the home of Blazer fans.


This IS the home of Blazer fans - and don't you forget it! 

Oh, and Shaq truly is a baffoon - a status shared by few of our Blazer players.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> we don't have 35+ posts regarding Duncan because he doesn't have guys who troll any comments regarding Shaq, and defend him (and kobe) to the hilt as if it was a personal attack on himself.


Nice cop-out HAP, calling people names.:no: 

Because I/we look at other forums than our favorite teams' and join a discussion on a topic that interests us does not makes us trolls. Rather, people that call others names without providing intelligent support or added argument on the topic at hand (as you have done) are the trolls you are referring to. 

Just because this post is in the Blazer's forum does not mean it is off limits to anyone that is not a Blazer fan. And, by the way, your point about people defending Shaq (I will not defend Kobe since there are no deciding facts to go on just yet) simply proves our point that Shaq incites passion into fans and draws people to watch/support the NBA, unlike Duncan.

And yes, an attack on Shaq is an attack on Laker fans, that is what being a fan is all about, supporting your team. I can understand why Blazer fans may have lost this fanaticism.




> I wasn't actually going to give the "it's our forum", but in a sense, if I went to the Lakers forum, and started defending the Blazers with the same gusto, you think that I wouldn't come off like a troll?


No, we would gladly love it if you or anyone else would come to the Laker forum to have an intelligent debate. As anywhere else, people may call you names. But if you have the truth behind you, name calling is easily cast off as moronic (as shown above when you called us trolls) and you will win the debate. Please, join us in any intelligent debate...that is why we are here.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ABM</b>!
> 
> 
> This IS the home of Blazer fans - and don't you forget it!
> ...


I see we have some quality moderators in this forum:no: . 

Please read my arguments and see if you can intelligently dispute my assertions that Shaq is not a buffoon (see the correct spelling, we've been over this in previous posts), but rather, he thinks he is a comedian and tries to work the media to get coverage. If not, then you will lose any credibility you may have.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> Nice cop-out HAP, calling people names.:no:


who was calling anyone a name? I said that Duncan doesn't have trolls coming in, Shaq does. I wasn't reffering to anyone in particular, I was just saying that no one cares about Duncan, and you got a lot of people who come in and go ape poop in defense of shaq. You, and Jemel, are too smart to be trolls. You think for yourself.



> Because I/we look at other forums than our favorite teams' and join a discussion on a topic that interests us does not makes us trolls. Rather, people that call others names without providing intelligent support or added argument on the topic at hand (as you have done) are the trolls you are referring to.


which is who I was reffering to. I never said "trolls like so and so". I'm just saying that there's a reason a lot of Laker threads go on forever, because of those people.



> Just because this post is in the Blazer's forum does not mean it is off limits to anyone that is not a Blazer fan.


where did I say this forum is off limits to non-blazer fans? Infact, where did ANYONE say that here? If you're respectful, none of us care if you're a Lakers fan, or a Bulls fan, or a Sonics fan (thats for Scinos!).


> And, by the way, your point about people defending Shaq (I will not defend Kobe since there are no deciding facts to go on just yet) simply proves our point that Shaq incites passion into fans and draws people to watch/support the NBA, unlike Duncan.


exactly my point. We don't have people coming in here defending Duncan like he's their kid. 



> And yes, an attack on Shaq is an attack on Laker fans, that is what being a fan is all about, supporting your team. I can understand why Blazer fans may
> have lost this fanaticism.


listen if you want to attack Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Bill Schonley, Clyde Drexler, by all means, go right ahead and do it. It's not an attack on me, it's not an attack on Blazer fans. It's an "attack" on those people. An attack on a fanbase is like "Those stupid Toledo Mud-Hen fans, they're the biggest frontrunners in the history of AAA ball!"



> No, we would gladly love it if you or anyone else would come to the Laker forum to have an intelligent debate. As anywhere else, people may call you names. But if you have the truth behind you, name calling is easily cast off as moronic (as shown above when you called us trolls)


didn't call you a troll, you just made it into your argument. I said that there are people who come in and defend Shaq to the hilt, and not Duncan.



> said that when there and you will win the debate. Please, join us in any intelligent debate...that is why we are here.


The comment about trolls coming in here did not apply ONLY to the post regarding Shaq today. There have been a lot of fans coming into this forum, and many other forums over the years, that are trolls. You ever been on ASBNLL? That thing draws trolls like ugly on ape!

Trolls come in, (there were at least 2 in this thread) and say inflamatory things, and then that draws out other people who continue the arguement that they didn't even start.

You don't have people who are Tim Duncan fans coming in going "Boy, I wish I was like Shaq! THen I'd have 3 titles*!!! I'd be a big oaf like him, and boring!"

but you do have trolls coming in saying the same thing about Duncan.


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> I see we have some quality moderators in this forum:no: .
> ...


Because we're all pleading for you to think us credible. Sheesh.

Listen, I don't believe Shaq is an idiot and I have started to like the lug in recent years but he isn't a marketing genius you make him out to be either. I give you his rap cds, his movies and shoes sold in k-mart. And before anyone says anything, having a greatest hits cd doesn't make you successful. 

That doesn't mean he doesn't know how to market basketball. He does know how to stir up emotions... He just makes guys like Tim Duncan, Malik Rose, PJ Brown and basically any foreign player more respected in my book. Obviously there are others out there that gravitate to the more mouthy, showy, egotistical players...

I think the guy can be funny though his mouth does get him in trouble. He is constantly talking smack about my favorite player and had made some buffoon-ish comments about Yao Ming (which took him way too long to apologize for)

Stuart


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> Please read my arguments and see if you can intelligently dispute my assertions that Shaq is not a buffoon (see the correct spelling, we've been over this in previous posts), but rather, he thinks he is a comedian and tries to work the media to get coverage. If not, then you will lose any credibility you may have.


*yawn*

(1) I feel no need to have any degree of credibility in your eyes.

(2) Here are some basic synonyms of buffoon (corrected spelling for your benefit only): antic, comedian, comic, droll, fool, harlequin, jester, joker, merry-andrew

I believe, arguably, that Shaq fits a fair degree of those descriptions.


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## The Ballatician PDM$ (Jul 16, 2002)

Tim Duncan is a superb player. A Tailor-made MVP caliber player who exhibits consitency at a remarkable rate. However,to think he is at the top of the NBA Pinnacle is by far the truth. Nothing is going to change in a matter of one year. Granted,Duncan layed it to Shaq,Kobe and the rest of the Lakers. But oh well. He did it one year. What? Should we just forget what Shaq and Kobe(Especially Kobe) did to the Spurs the last few years?? Duncan dominated. No question. But Kobe dominated them in a bigger/more impressive fashion the previous two years! Why is Duncan suddently on top now?? And why is he even being mentioned with Shaquille O'Neal, who Duncan cannot slow down one-bit w/o help,as the most dominating big-man on the planet?? Wasn't Shaquille O'Neal that was the 3-time NBA Finals MVP? Wasn't Shaquille O'Neal who still put up over 27 and 10 despite being doubled and tripled-teamed by a superb duo or trio of defensive frontocurt players(Duncan Robinson and Rose?) Wasn't it Shaquille O'Neal's Lakers that won 7 out of the last 8 playoff meetings against Duncan's Spurs before this year's series??

Im telling you. Things cannot change in a matter of years. People will now say "Duncan has a better supporitng cast" and I agree. Duncan is surrounded by solid talent everywere. However,if you look at it?? How anemic was the Lakers lineup coming into the playoffs?? How thin was the bench?? How banged up were Shaquille and Kobe?? How much more depth did the Spurs have than the Lakers?? Hmmm. Yet,that series came down to one missed shot in Game 5 by Robert Horry,that rimmed in-and-out. As anemic and as banged up as the Lakers were that year. If they hit that game 5 shot (which was already half way down) the Lakers most likely win the series and the NBA Championship (nope. Dallas cannot match the Shaq Factor so nope. They were not going to win it.)

So please...do not use the excuse folks that "Shaq had to go out and get 2 HOF's to get back on top" The Lakers would have been on top w/o them if it wasn't for a missed shot!! And besides...we have beaten..butter put..dismantled..Tim Duncan and the Spurs with equal ammount of talent. The only difference is that Shaq and Kobe were healthy and the rest of the Lakers were not as banged up. The Lakers got Malone and GP because they wanted to come!! And because they not only want to be back on top..they want to be back on top in a dominating fashion!!

Still it comes down to Shaq. When shaq is healthy...folks get swept!! Ask Tim Duncan! Last time the Spurs pissed Shaq off what happpened?? 3 straight titles and dominating in the playoffs in a fashion not seen by anyone not named MJ over the past 15 years!!! You have to throw in the Kobe factor in there too. Thangs can change if he gets jail time. But most likely if there is a trial..it will be after the NBA season. Ohh and as for Kobe against the Spurs.haha. U think think Dominated?? Kobe had a 45 pt 12 reb game in Game one in 2001 and went on to average 30 ppg 7 rpg and 5 apg in that series!! The next year he ripped the Spurs heart in San antonio with some of the most brilliant cluthc performances in the history of the NBA. He single-handedly ripped the Spurs heart out in San Antonio,with Duncan watching in 2001-2002. Thangs would have been different if he didnt have such a messed up shoulder. Forget the Horry missed shot. If Kobe would have been ok..LA wins the series!

But that's all im gettin into for now. But just for you Duncan and Spur fans. Ya'll must of forgot! The best player in the World still wears #8 and the most dominating force in the history of the game still wears #34. What...should Kevin Johnson be better than Magic cuz the Suns beat the Lakers in 1990?? Or should Ralph Sampson be considered a better center than Kareem becuz the Rockets beat LA in 1986?? Nope! Duncan is good! And it's sort of like Magic and Bird with O'Neal and Duncan. Both will beat each other...but O'Neal will have the most wins at the end.



Chuuuuuuuch!!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

any particular reason this is in the blazers forum, and not the spurs or lakers forum?



> Originally posted by <b>The Ballatician PDM$</b>!
> Tim Duncan is a superb player. A Tailor-made MVP caliber player who exhibits consitency at a remarkable rate. However,to think he is at the top of the NBA Pinnacle is by far the truth. Nothing is going to change in a matter of one year. Granted,Duncan layed it to Shaq,Kobe and the rest of the Lakers. But oh well. He did it one year. What? Should we just forget what Shaq and Kobe(Especially Kobe) did to the Spurs the last few years?? Duncan dominated. No question. But Kobe dominated them in a bigger/more impressive fashion the previous two years! Why is Duncan suddently on top now?? And why is he even being mentioned with Shaquille O'Neal, who Duncan cannot slow down one-bit w/o help,as the most dominating big-man on the planet?? Wasn't Shaquille O'Neal that was the 3-time NBA Finals MVP? Wasn't Shaquille O'Neal who still put up over 27 and 10 despite being doubled and tripled-teamed by a superb duo or trio of defensive frontocurt players(Duncan Robinson and Rose?) Wasn't it Shaquille O'Neal's Lakers that won 7 out of the last 8 playoff meetings against Duncan's Spurs before this year's series??
> 
> Im telling you. Things cannot change in a matter of years. People will now say "Duncan has a better supporitng cast" and I agree. Duncan is surrounded by solid talent everywere. However,if you look at it?? How anemic was the Lakers lineup coming into the playoffs?? How thin was the bench?? How banged up were Shaquille and Kobe?? How much more depth did the Spurs have than the Lakers?? Hmmm. Yet,that series came down to one missed shot in Game 5 by Robert Horry,that rimmed in-and-out. As anemic and as banged up as the Lakers were that year. If they hit that game 5 shot (which was already half way down) the Lakers most likely win the series and the NBA Championship (nope. Dallas cannot match the Shaq Factor so nope. They were not going to win it.)
> ...


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> who was calling anyone a name? I said that Duncan doesn't have trolls coming in, Shaq does. I wasn't reffering to anyone in particular, I was just saying that no one cares about Duncan, and you got a lot of people who come in and go ape poop in defense of shaq. You, and Jemel, are too smart to be trolls. You think for yourself.
> 
> listen if you want to attack Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Bill Schonley, Clyde Drexler, by all means, go right ahead and do it. It's not an attack on me, it's not an attack on Blazer fans. It's an "attack" on those people. An attack on a fanbase is like "Those stupid Toledo Mud-Hen fans, they're the biggest frontrunners in the history of AAA ball!"


Okay, the way you worded it sounded like you were referring to us. I still dont think there is anything wrong with defending your favorite player, as long as you have reasonable support for your argument. Like the way I defended Shaq not being a buffoon...he is simply attemptign to be funny and does things "tongue-in-cheek". 



> I said that there are people who come in and defend Shaq to the hilt, and not Duncan.


By the way though, people don't defend Duncan because when people bash him for being a boring stiff, its true and nobody so far has effectively refuted it.



> You don't have people who are Tim Duncan fans coming in going "Boy, I wish I was like Shaq! THen I'd have 3 titles*!!! I'd be a big oaf like him, and boring!"
> 
> but you do have trolls coming in saying the same thing about Duncan.


There's nothing wrong with bashing a player, as long as you can support your claim and are willing/able to back it up when someone disagrees.


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## The Ballatician PDM$ (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> any particular reason this is in the blazers forum, and not the spurs or lakers forum?


Because it can be here!!! And it WILLL behere!! I heard the words "Shaq" and "Duncan" somewere in this thread!! And I did read some lines about "If duncan...so so..and Shaq..so so...duncan would be doing this or that"


So I jumped into da mix and had my Laker fans back like a chiropractor ya dig!! This ain't yo forum. If I wanna speak about baracudas and squirrel's...gasoline and matches....goats and chickens...Ima do that cuz!! Cuz I can! 


Chuuuuuuuuch!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay, the way you worded it sounded like you were referring to us. I still dont think there is anything wrong with defending your favorite player, as long as you have reasonable support for your argument. Like the way I defended Shaq not being a buffoon...he is simply attemptign to be funny and does things "tongue-in-cheek".


no problem. no harm, no foul. I actually think if Shaq didn't *try* so hard to be funny, he would be. He just comes off as a fool, partly because the media seems to want to make him out that way, and partly because when someone tries to be funny, they usually aren't. 



> By the way though, people don't defend Duncan because when people bash him for being a boring stiff, its true and nobody so far has effectively refuted it.


hehehe...I mean, hey! thats not nice..



> There's nothing wrong with bashing a player, as long as you can support your claim and are willing/able to back it up when someone disagrees.


true, there's nothing wrong with bashing a player, but if you can't take the heat, stay outta da kitchen. (the people who bash duncan, but go ape poop when you bash shaq (or tmac vs kobe, or iverson vs a foul mouthed kid who was handed an MVP award when he was the worst shooting MVP award winner in like 60 years).

oops, did I say that outloud?


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>s a b a s 11</b>!
> Because we're all pleading for you to think us credible. Sheesh.


As a moderator he should try to have as much credibility as possible. He represents this website and if he wants this website to get more traffic, he should want me to believe the moderator of the forum is credible. As a poster, you should want people to believe you are credible too. Not that you are working for the site, but maybe to gain respect or in hopes that others respect your point of view. If this is not your desire, then why are you even on this forum? To spout your points and not care what people think? If so then you are a weirdo and what is even the point?



> And before anyone says anything, having a greatest hits cd doesn't make you successful.


More successful than me. And that's the point, when it comes to rapping, he more intelligent than me...this is where my point was in showing that Shaq is intelligent in several fields.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ABM</b>!
> 
> 
> *yawn*
> ...


See my post above about credibility. Comedian/comic/joker maybe...but none of those are negative.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> any particular reason this is in the blazers forum, and not the spurs or lakers forum?


I agree and it's kinda off topic, why dont you start a thread with this? The Laker/Spurs forum\s are kinda slow lately. BTW, do you have this essay save on your hard drive or something? LOL This is a forum, not a magazine to submit articles to. Just kidding.


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

Nobody better call me a merry-andrew. :nonono:


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

To be honest, I somewhat understand the Laker crowd standing behind Shaq when he acts like a buffoon. Despite the backlash that Sheed's antics have received, I've always enjoyed his arm-waving, cursing, drop-to-the-floor, foot-stamping, ref-hating, dunk-screaming, fire-and-brimstone basketball on-court personality. People shake their head, call him a jerk, a headcase, or whatever media buzz word, and it just makes me like him more, even to the point where I defend him beyond reason. He's fiery, emotional, and exciting to watch. NBA basketball is about entertainment, which Sheed provides plenty of. It's fun having the bad guy on your team. Shaq is like that for the Lakers. They enjoy his media comments and other antics because he's their guy, and they love him. I'd probably feel the same way.


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## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

*I Think There's a Couple Of Reasons...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> I don't see any Tim Duncan threads on the Portland board with 35+ posts.


There's a couple of reasons that we don't see 35+ posts about Duncan. First, Duncan doesn't say stupid things that get posted here to start a thread about his buffoonery. Second, Spurs fans wouldn't flock here to defend him if he did. Classy player, mostly classy fans = no 35+ thread on Timmy. OK?

As for Shaq just be'n a comedian. I doubt many Asian folks thought he was too funny when he started talk'n gibberish, imitating Yao talk'n Chinese. I didn't find it funny, either. Further, I bet Shaq wouldn't find it funny if someone made some racist jokes about him being black, either. Yao showed tons more class than Shaq by letting him off the hook for his racist bs.

Funny that some Laker fans think fights in the NBA are da bomb, but there were lots of Laker fans here that didn't think it was so funny when Dale Davis grabbed (I don't even remember who the LA player was, Fox?) by the throat awhile back. Damned few LA fans thought it was funny when (don't remember who) popped Kobe in the mouth not too long ago. Guess it's different when the shoe's on the other foot!

As for Shaq being successful in the MOVIES????????? ROTFL!!! I'd have to have a lobotamy to sit through his movie. I can't speak to his rap success, since you couldn't pay me to listen to him...but I don't remember him getting any awards for his work.

As for starting fights? Shaq's started his share. How about slapping 'Tag before a game. Now there's a classy act for ya. Just be'n a comedian, I guess. Doubt that 'Tag thought it was too funny, though. How 'bout him attacking Barkley awhile back? Was it Miller he took a swing at out of the blue last year? There's plenty more, these are just the ones I remember off the top of my head.

For more 'comedy relief', how about all of the stupid things he says about other players? Saying Sabonis cries like a girl. Pure CLASS, for LA fans, I guess. Can't rememeber his quote to put down the Admiral a couple of years ago. I'm sure that DRob found that real funny...what with him being one of the classiest guys in the L.

You LA fans have every right to overlook all of Shaq's bs, but you're wasting your time trying to convice me that he's anything but a classless moron.

Go Blazers


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Ballatician PDM$</b>!
> 
> 
> Because it can be here!!! And it WILLL behere!! I heard the words "Shaq" and "Duncan" somewere in this thread!! And I did read some lines about "If duncan...so so..and Shaq..so so...duncan would be doing this or that"
> ...


yes, but your post had almost nothing to do with what was being discussed.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

Right on BealzeeBob! I really don't mind Shaq's on the court show-boating or even some of his innocent joking around. Just like I don't mind Sheed's antics on the court at times. Yet, there are a lot of people who are sick and tired of Shaq running his mouth to the nth degree...what's worse is that most of the BS spewing out of his mouth is garbage and nothing more. How is that good for the NBA? The guy sounds like a moron. He is a great b-ball player but makes an *** out himself just about every time he opens his mouth. I'm with you BB, I'm not sure how swinging at Brad Miller from behind proves anything or is good for the NBA. Or that saying he slept with Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Janet Jackson, etc...but, he was making a joke right? He is a joke. And that is good for the NBA again right?


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: I Think There's a Couple Of Reasons...*



> Originally posted by <b>BealzeeBob</b>!
> There's a couple of reasons that we don't see 35+ posts about Duncan. First, Duncan doesn't say stupid things that get posted here to start a thread about his buffoonery. Second, Spurs fans wouldn't flock here to defend him if he did. Classy player, mostly classy fans = no 35+ thread on Timmy. OK?
> 
> 
> ...


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Ballatician PDM$</b>!
> Tim Duncan is a superb player. A Tailor-made MVP caliber player who exhibits consitency at a remarkable rate. However,to think he is at the top of the NBA Pinnacle is by far the truth. Nothing is going to change in a matter of one year. Granted,Duncan layed it to Shaq,Kobe and the rest of the Lakers. But oh well. He did it one year. What?
> 
> <sniped rest'o the essay>



First Duncan won 2 titles live with it. Lakers won 3? Thats fairly even so far.

So Duncan is an MVP player but he isn't on the top of the NBA Pinnacle? uhhhhhh ok.

Duncan never had a Kobe either. If you switched Duncan and Shaq I think the lakers would be a much better team and so do most NBA fans. Look at all the threads about the best player in the NBA Duncan is always the consensus.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Draco</b>!
> 
> Duncan never had a Kobe either. If you switched Duncan and Shaq I think the lakers would be a much better team and so do most NBA fans. Look at all the threads about the best player in the NBA Duncan is always the consensus.


I don't think it would be better, just younger and different. Nobody knows if it would be better.

All the lame posters on this website say Duncan is the best player, but what about the poll of all the coaches which said coaches would take Shaq over anyone else to be the player to build a team around?


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> As a moderator he should try to have as much credibility as possible. He represents this website and if he wants this website to get more traffic, he should want me to believe the moderator of the forum is credible. As a poster, you should want people to believe you are credible too. Not that you are working for the site, but maybe to gain respect or in hopes that others respect your point of view. If this is not your desire, then why are you even on this forum? To spout your points and not care what people think? If so then you are a weirdo and what is even the point?


Thats prefectly fine and I agree with you, but my point is that you seem to think credibility starts and ends with you. At least, thats the way you come off. With that said, I doubt anyone in here is wiping off tears because you're threatening to take away their "jstempi credibility award".

I've posted along with ABM for a few years now and whether you find him trustworthy or honest or credible has no bearing on my thoughts of him or anyone else's opinion of him on this board for that matter. Still, it will always be irritating to see someone (especially someone new) come in here and correct spelling, lay down the law... you should hardly be surprised by the reactions here. 



> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> More successful than me. And that's the point, when it comes to rapping, he more intelligent than me...this is where my point was in showing that Shaq is intelligent in several fields.


So you've tried your hand at rapping? Just because the lug sold x amount of rap cds doesn't make him more intelligent in rapping. I've heard his rap CDs and I wouldn't venture he is a better rapper than me. 

You're giving the guy too much intelligence credit, in many ways Shaquille O'Neal is just lucky to be born 7-1 4000lbs and agile as a guard. If you were a biological freak of nature that dominated the NBA, then Kazaam part II would be starring jstempi.

Anyone with the amount of money and name-recognition that Shaqulle O'Neal has is going to open up doors for movie contracts, rap cds, commercials... shoot, Shaq could cut a country album tommorrow if he so decided. 

Stuart


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> As a moderator he should try to have as much credibility as possible. He represents this website and if he wants this website to get more traffic, he should want me to believe the moderator of the forum is credible.......


Not that it truly matters, but where did I seem to fall off the edge with you?

I believe I'm credible. In fact, I've been told I'm _in_credible - relatively speaking, of course.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: I Think There's a Couple Of Reasons...*



> Originally posted by <b>BealzeeBob</b>!
> 
> 
> There's a couple of reasons that we don't see 35+ posts about Duncan. First, Duncan doesn't say stupid things that get posted here to start a thread about his buffoonery. Second, Spurs fans wouldn't flock here to defend him if he did. Classy player, mostly classy fans = no 35+ thread on Timmy. OK?


So you're saying that-

1) You only start threads on the players you hate, not the ones you like

2) The classy fans are the ones that defend their favorite player, not the ones that call him petty names. You won't see any threads on the Laker, Raptor, Heat, Hornets, Bucks, Bulls.... forum about Shaq being an idiot, Damon being a pot head, Sheed being a hot head and so on. Guess they aren't classy like you Laker hating folk.

By the way you won't see me defending Shaq. I like him the way he is. He's the Ali of basketball. I enjoy victories even more knowing how much guys like you hate seeing him win. I truly wish Kobe was more like Shaq and Phil.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> All the lame posters on this website say Duncan is the best player, but what about the poll of all the coaches which said coaches would take Shaq over anyone else to be the player to build a team around?


Wasn't it just a page ago you were upset about namecalling? 

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> Last...Dont ever say that when you get old that you cant just get back into the shape you once were in. I'm 6 foot 9". A big guy too (not like Shaq however...HE'S HUGE). Anyway....I stopped playing after I broke my left ankle when I was younger. Sat out for three years to let it heel completely....but I'm back in the shape I was before but even better. You cant say its not an option to go and get fit again. Its just a matter of will within the mind. If Shaq really wanted to go out and get back to the shape he once was in....I think he could.


Hey Critic, just wanted to give you a thumbs up on how right you were on what it takes to get back in shape, namely personal dedication. I was involved in two bad car accidents about a year apart in 1999 and 2000 that totally blew out my back, both twisting and displacing my spine off to the left side. All of my back muscles were in constant spasm, and formed sort of an internal cast locking the spine into this very unnatural position. I wasn't able to tie my shoes. The doc's orders on both cases were that I was to do as little as possible so as to lose all my muscle tone, and allow the spine to go back into place. I faced 5-7 months on the couch both times. Thank god for my friends and my dish (my fish were cool too). 

Prior to the accidents I was 5'10 170, but all that sitting around bumped me up to nearly 200lbs. I had to buy fat guy pants. Through alot of PT, anti-inflamatories and patients, I made it through and became functional again by 2001... but I kept going. I've a very active lifestyle and job now, and I'm down to 160. I'm able to touch the rim for the first time in years and run in pretty high level pick up games 4 times a week in SF... not bad for a 36 year old. I'm as good now as I ever was.

I've no doubt that Shaq, or anyone really, can get back into shape, he just has to really want it. He can't eat any of those products he endorses. IMO, he'd be best off if he really cracked down on his fitness and diet, and pushed to get down around 300. He'd still be the biggest dude in the game (with any skill) but he'd be much more able to recover on D, and defend the pick and roll that he so clearly struggles on. He hired (so I hear) one of the best trainers this offseason, and reports are that he's taking it seriously. From the angle of providing a positive example of whats possible with your health and body, I wish him the best. 

Cheers to you

STOMP


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

Shaq is still the baddest man in Basketball. Tim Duncan has nothing on Shaq. MVP*.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey Critic, just wanted to give you a thumbs up on how right you were on what it takes to get back in shape, namely personal dedication. I was involved in two bad car accidents about a year apart in 1999 and 2000 that totally blew out my back, both twisting and displacing my spine off to the left side. All of my back muscles were in constant spasm, and formed sort of an internal cast locking the spine into this very unnatural position. I wasn't able to tie my shoes. The doc's orders on both cases were that I was to do as little as possible so as to lose all my muscle tone, and allow the spine to go back into place. I faced 5-7 months on the couch both times. Thank god for my friends and my dish (my fish were cool too).
> ...


Thats an awesome story STOMP. 

Makes me think about the kind of people who have been paralysed and have been told that they will never walk again. Some of these people have just ignored "common logic" and just worked their arses off and regained their freedom. I actually had a friend who did exactly that and it was sort of inspirational. He can't run, but the fact that he even walks is proof of his sheer determination and commitment. 

My ankle was pretty bad...Was told by my doctor I may never play again. I had two big guys fall down on me when all three of us were fighting for position under the ring for a rebound. my weight and two other guys coming down on my ankle equalled..... SNAP! Nasty stuff....and alot of pain. I am back to normal in terms of overall movement and I can play again completely normally. Its just still a little stiff in the mornings until I stretch it and warm it up. Shame it happened really....as three month after I broke it...I was supposed to be taking up a scholarship at Virginia Tech. That ruined any hope of that ever happening....but I am happy playing at home here for my club in the regions A grade mens comp and semi professionally in the ABA. 

Back to shaq....i know his Toe is bad....but if can play through the pain of my arthritic ankles....so can he. He has the help of health professionals, the very best doctors and physiotherapists and personal trainers. He can get himself back in shape...I'm in my late 20's by the way....so not too much younger than him....and I'm a tall, big (6-9, 245) guy too. If I could do it with very little support...He DEFINATELY can with all the support you could ever need.

One last thing....anyone know the guy who played for Cleveland at one stage...and had multiple knee reconstructions on both his knees just to keep playing?? I know he had like 4 on one knee alone...just to keep living the dream of being in the NBA. Amazing stuff!

Cheers guys.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker4peat</b>!
> Shaq is still the baddest man in Basketball. Tim Duncan has nothing on Shaq. MVP*.


Ducan has a jumpshot from more than 15 feet and that is something that Shaq doesn't have.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> Guys like Muhamed Ali, Terrell Owens and Shaq are great for sports. They add interest to the game and make you hate them or love them more. Why do guys like STOMP start threads about Shaq and watch so many Laker games? Probably because he hates them so much.
> 
> I don't see any Tim Duncan threads on the Portland board with 35+ posts.


Sure, and Hitler was great for politics. Got a lot of people interested. 

Evil is evil, and Shaq is evil. Boring is boring, and Duncan is boring. 

I agree with your thesis, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't put Shaq on a rocket and shoot him into Uranus.

barfo


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## CatchNRelease (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> 
> I agree with your thesis, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't put Shaq on a rocket and shoot him into Uranus.
> 
> barfo


:jawdrop:  

Damn, that would HURT!!

Go Blazers


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> Guys like Muhamed Ali, Terrell Owens and Shaq are great for sports. They add interest to the game and make you hate them or love them more. Why do guys like STOMP start threads about Shaq and watch so many Laker games? Probably because he hates them so much.
> 
> I don't see any Tim Duncan threads on the Portland board with 35+ posts.


Jemel, I can't speak for all the other guys like me  but I think you'd have a much better chance of being on the mark if you limit yourself to what's been said rather then guessing at the motivation of posting these comments. I think it's pretty pathetic that he's promising to assault people on the court, and given his history, don't think there is anything tongue and cheek about his statement. 

If it's just trash talk, he should keep it on the court. If he follows through with his public threat, maybe some hapless scrub victim of his "starting fights" will have grounds to sue the pants off him, and the media circus will have the perfect quote to take him to task with. 

To counter your assertion, any Laker or Spurs or other game I watch, I'm just hoping to see some good ball plain and simple. I root for the Blazers, but I'm a much bigger fan of individual players and the game itself then any one team. Check my bio and you'll see GP listed as one of my 4 favorites and he's not coming off that list now that he's wearing purple and gold. It's just sad for this fan to see stupid egotistical comments like these coming from arguably the game's best player. IMO they detract from the beauty of the game and epitomize poor sportsmanship for the next generation.

As soon as Tim Duncan starts saying stupid bleep akin to this, you'll have a point on the last quote I highlighted. Don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen.

STOMP


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker4peat</b>!
> Man. Imma love this season coming up. Shaq is the mother****ing truth. Shaq pissed off is a bad man and when hes bad hes unstoppable. Starting fights. Banging on opposition teams Hanging on the rim. kicking fools in the face. Shaq is poetry in motion baby. Is a beautiful thing to watch. The daddy is back. GP pushing it on the break with Shaq and Mailman bulldozing the middle clean and Kobe on the wing. Damn.
> 
> FO FO FO FO


Wow, I've never seen Shaq kick LA fans in the face? Has he ever kicked you in the face 3cheat?


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ABM</b>!
> 
> 
> Not that it truly matters, but where did I seem to fall off the edge with you?
> ...


You lost a bit of credibility with me when you jumped in on the Shaq name calling ("buffoon"). I forgive you though..everyone is entitled to a few lame posts. Certainly I have had my share, so lets just forget about all this credibility discussion and get back to talking basketball. 

All you posters can think what you want about Shaq, but the fact is that he does this to get himself, and in turn, all of his sponsors, more attention and media coverage. I'm not defending him, just explaining his motivation for saying these things. End of story. Thanks for the great discussion guys. I think all the intelligent people were busy posting on this thread all week because I haven't seen any other interesting discussion on the rest of the forum.:yes:


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> Wasn't it just a page ago you were upset about namecalling?
> ...


No STOMP, please pay attention. I said name calling witohut providing intennigent support is a cop-out. I love calling people names. See below for the actual text of my comments:

"Because I/we look at other forums than our favorite teams' and join a discussion on a topic that interests us does not makes us trolls. Rather, people that call others names without providing intelligent support or added argument on the topic at hand (as you have done) are the trolls you are referring to."

See, I clearly enjoy bashing others...I can take getting called a name, but I return the blow with 1000 times the force because I support it with fact and intelligent support.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

It strikes me as pretty funny whenever some brand new poster with a limited understanding of the rules and decorum comes in and condescendingly starts dictating how things are and should be. Hap didn't call anyone names, but you have. To troll for comments isn't refering to some hairy guy covered in warts who lives under a bridge, it refers to someone in a boat fishing (trolling...get it?) for comments to respond to. Now granted you labeling posters "lame" who disagree with your assessment that Duncan isn't the greatest, is 1000+ times more insulting then calling someone a fisherman (something I choose to be on vacations). Gathering a little more knowledge before popping off could booster your claims of coming off as intelligent. JMHO.

STOMP


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

IMO, if you really like basketball for what it is you can enjoy watching Timmy and find him exciting. You don't need someone talking shiznit, hanging on the rim, and acting an *** to be entertained.

Laker fans claim that SA had just as much talent, if not more, than LA this past year. Which I think is a crock of shiznit statement if I ever heard one. It was Timmy and 6 role players vs Shaq, Kobe, and the other guys. With out Timmy the Spurs would of been watching the playoffs. But the Lakers have haq... I mean shaq.. kobe, and most of the same guys from the years before. When it comes down to it, the Spurs played better ball.

As for this year I would love to see the Shaq that was in Orlando. The one who played some good basketball, not lazy force his way through the lane and get fouls called bull shiznit from the more recent years.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> It strikes me as pretty funny whenever some brand new poster with a limited understanding of the rules and decorum comes in and condescendingly starts dictating how things are and should be. Hap didn't call anyone names, but you have. To troll for comments isn't refering to some hairy guy covered in warts who lives under a bridge, it refers to someone in a boat fishing (trolling...get it?) for comments to respond to. Now granted you labeling posters "lame" who disagree with your assessment that Duncan isn't the greatest, is 1000+ times more insulting then calling someone a fisherman (something I like to do on vacations)... but gathering a little more knowledge before popping off could booster your claims of coming off as intelligent. JMHO.
> 
> STOMP


Oh please. That is a very weak argument. Don't pretend that if someone, especially the moderator, called you a troll you would not be offended. Hap's post sounded like he was calling us trolls, and we sorted that out. And please, point out the rule that I have broken. I have had one post edited because I said someone was a Laker hater. The word hater was edited, so I changed it to say the person was hating on the Lakers and the Administrator was fine with that. All other negative adjectives I have used refer to people's arguments, not the person, hence, I am in compliance with the harassment guideline. 

A person who is lame is disabled so that movement, especially walking, is difficult or impossible or a lame person is weak and ineffectual; unsatisfactory. My intended use of the word lame was not to insult members, but rather, to describe the weak and ineffectual posts members on this forum make that say Duncan is the best player when this can be said about many other players in the league. That is why there is so much controversy over the MVP award each year. 

Anyway, if my use of the word lame is against the "rules" than so be it...we shall see if it is edited by the moderators. And by the way, you are being quite hypocritical about name calling since your post attacked me saying I have limited understanding and am condescending. This is more of a "harassment" than when I complained about lame posters. But you can interpret the guidelines to benefit you and interpret them another way when it comes to another person's post if you want. So be it, I'm up to the fight and don't mind being called names as I have said. 

You also need to get over this, "I've been here longer than you so I'm better than you" attitude. Just because a person has been posting longer doesn't always mean they know more about the game, or are a more valuable poster. Why do you think the site is doing a membership drive. They want new thoughts, personalities and ideas, besides more traffic. And by the way, you are the first to tell me I am not in line with the decorum of this forum. Please, enlighten me on what I should do better. Maybe I should tone down on the facts and intellectual support to my arguments and simply make unsupported statements like "Tim Duncan is the best PF ever" or "Shaq is a buffoon." If that is the decorum you want this forum will lose traffic real quick and there wont be any intelligent debate going on.

And finally, why are you changing the subject from Shaq...can you no longer support your assertions well enough that you have to resort to attacking me? Clearly you have lost this debate, since you have given up and changed the subject. And I don't need to "gather a little more knowledge" to "boost {my} claims of coming off as intelligent", I do this by winning debates such as this one. If it were'nt for me, this thread would have died at 23 posts of hype and Shaq bashing without any intelligent debate.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> IMO, if you really like basketball for what it is you can enjoy watching Timmy and find him exciting. You don't need someone talking shiznit, hanging on the rim, and acting an *** to be entertained.


Good point! However, you are wrong. If this were the case, then everybody who watches the NBA should/would be watching the WNBA if they “really like basketball” as you put it. 



> Laker fans claim that SA had just as much talent, if not more, than LA this past year. Which I think is a crock of shiznit statement if I ever heard one. It was Timmy and 6 role players vs Shaq, Kobe, and the other guys. With out Timmy the Spurs would of been watching the playoffs. But the Lakers have haq... I mean shaq.. kobe, and most of the same guys from the years before. When it comes down to it, the Spurs played better ball.


Clearly SA had more talent. Otherwise, LA would have won. Hello! 

Sure LA had many guys from prior years, but they were missing the 3rd option they always had in Rice, Grant and others. In addition, these “same guys” got worse this year and couldn’t hit their shots. In addition, Kobe was injured and SA’s four other starters were better than an injured Kobe plus LA’s other 3 starters. That is why they won. By the way, what was the Laker’s record without Shaq…33%?



> As for this year I would love to see the Shaq that was in Orlando. The one who played some good basketball, not lazy force his way through the lane and get fouls called bull shiznit from the more recent years.


So you are saying you want to see Shaq trash the style of game that won him 3 championships and play like when he lost in Orlando. You must really dislike the Lakers. And don’t pretend he hasn’t always been exciting…it’s not his fault that people started using the hack-o-Shaq every game once he moved to LA.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

I thought I was clear that you are welcome to call me a fisherman as often as you'd like and I promise not to get offended. "Please pay attention," correcting spelling, and your general tone has been (IMO) condescending, and I noted it in hopes you could avoid offending folks when you merely want to weigh in. I stated the offense you took at Hap's statement was misplaced and specualted that it was because you were new here as evidenced by your post count. As a grizzeled vet in this community of fans going back years now before BBB.net, I've seen this same sort of thing countless times. Of course my opinion is worth no more then yours, and I hardly make any claims at being a more valuble poster then you or anyone else. Whether it breaks a rule or not to label those that disagree with you on TD as "lame" is up to others to decide, but I really don't think it's necessary or in any way helps the various debates going on. I think your follow up post explaining why you feel they are that way helps.

Since you asked... attacks on players is fine, personal attacks/insults on posters are not. I was trying to help you figure this stuff out. 



> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> And finally, why are you changing the subject from Shaq...can you no longer support your assertions well enough that you have to resort to attacking me? Clearly you have lost this debate, since you have given up and changed the subject.


:laugh: great train (crash) of logic. I'm not even going to respond to your quote beyond that as this is obviously digressing rapidly. I regret my own copeability here and wish you the best on this and future threads. 

STOMP


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## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

*I Don't Know What The HELL You're Talking About...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> So you're saying that-
> ...


...Do you?? First, I didn't start this thread. You stated there weren't any 35+ threads about TD. I answered why that might be, catch a clue! I sure as hell didn't say that I only start threads about players I hate.

Second, I don't hate the Lakers. I've been a Payton fan since his OSU days...still am. I think the Mailman is the best PF ever, (even if I DO believe Timmy will eventually take his place.) I like to watch Kobe...he's an incredible talent. I even agree that Shaq is the most dominate player in the L. In short, I've watched lots of Laker games, and will continue to do so. That doesn't change the fact that Shaq is a dolt, and has no class. Oh, and btw Jstempi, saying that all of Shaq's stupid comments are either marketing or jokes is HARDLY supporting your opinion with facts. It's just more of your unsubstantiated opinion.

The bottom line is that I like watching the Lakers play, it's some of the blind, homer Laker fans that I can't stand. 
I've been surfing various hoops boards for about nine years now. I've never understood how so many people believe that, since their bball team is better than all the others, somehow that makes their fans better than all the others.

(BTW, I didn't make any claim to being a classy fan, you did. Thanks!)

Go Blazers


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Let's make this really simple:



> "It's not going to matter," Shaq continued in the LA Daily News. "You know that. The whole world knows it's not going to matter. You know why? Because I'm back now. Last year, I was a little banged up. But no team is a powerhouse, and no team scares me. And I'm upset and I'm (ticked) off. A lot of people doubting me. The old Shaq will be back, talking (smack), *starting fights*, getting my legs up when I dunk. I'm back now. I'm mad now."


Shaq can talk all the smack he wants. He can hang on the rim and pull his legs up when he dunks if he chooses (I do hope, however, he doesn't complain when he gets some technicals for doing so). But when he says that he's going to start fights, then he's crossed the line. This is what earns him the titles of "thug" and "buffoon". If he apologizes for saying this, then I'll re-think my opinion. Somehow, I don't think he ever will.

When Rasheed threatened a ref with bodily injury, he crossed the line.

When John Chaney threatened John Calipari with bodily injury, he crossed the line.

Now, Shaq has crossed the line with this statement.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> 
> 
> Sure, and Hitler was great for politics. Got a lot of people interested.
> ...


Ok, but the statement being argued was if Shaq made his statements for marketing purposes. Hitler had more supporters than any other German leader has ever had. Shaq will always be a better marketing draw than Duncan.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> your general tone has been (IMO) condescending, and I noted it in hopes you could avoid offending folks when you merely want to weigh in.
> 
> Whether it breaks a rule or not to label those that disagree with you on TD as "lame" is up to others to decide, but I really don't think it's necessary or in any way helps the various debates going on. I think your follow up post explaining why you feel they are that way helps.


Certainly my posts can be toned down on the negativity, I will try to lessen this practice. Unless it is completely appropriate and necessary.  Which I think it was in a few cases on this thread, especially since it's a (negative) bash Shaq thread. 



> Since you asked... attacks on players is fine, personal attacks/insults on posters are not. I was trying to help you figure this stuff out.


Ummm…yes, this is part of the harassment guideline. I thought I made it clear that I understood this.
 



> :laugh: great train (crash) of logic. I'm not even going to respond to your quote beyond that as this is obviously digressing rapidly. I regret my own copeability here and wish you the best on this and future threads.


Yes, please give up on the debate and include further evidence in your post that you cannot adequately refute my arguments by quitting. Thank you.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

I didn't quit on this thread or in any way conceed the argument, I merely am sidestepping your latest assumptions as they seem pretty silly and worthless in persuing IMO. I think my points are perfectly clear and in fact have been agreed apon by most including you...


> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> I am not one of these Laker fans that likes fights. So I agree with you here


Thats the main point being debated here. You think his public promises to assault people in the future (like he has in the past) isn't worthy of derogatory names because of he's a big comedian and such a major success in films and so on... to me thats totally a sidenote to the issue that threatening violence isn't acceptable in any way in our society. SoCal's post was on point IMO.

STOMP


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> Good point! However, you are wrong. If this were the case, then everybody who watches the NBA should/would be watching the WNBA if they “really like basketball” as you put it.


Naw, they play with a smaller ball. Whats the fun in that? 



> Clearly SA had more talent. Otherwise, LA would have won. Hello!
> 
> Sure LA had many guys from prior years, but they were missing the 3rd option they always had in Rice, Grant and others. In addition, these “same guys” got worse this year and couldn’t hit their shots. In addition, Kobe was injured and SA’s four other starters were better than an injured Kobe plus LA’s other 3 starters. That is why they won. By the way, what was the Laker’s record without Shaq…33%?


Then how can you explain an upset? A team clearly more talented beats a team that is clearly not in the same leauge? By your logic, the most talented team always wins. IMO having talent is one thing, combining what talent you have into a winning combination is different. I'm not a big Kobe fan, but Kobe has as much talent as Manu and Bowen put together (currently, Manu is still young and improving). 


> So you are saying you want to see Shaq trash the style of game that won him 3 championships and play like when he lost in Orlando. You must really dislike the Lakers. And don’t pretend he hasn’t always been exciting…it’s not his fault that people started using the hack-o-Shaq every game once he moved to LA.


I do dislike the lakers, but its mostly because I hate watching a team dumping the ball to shaq and watching him force people under the basket who are half his weight, dunk on them, and manage to have a defensive foul called because the guy was moving his feet when 300 lbs of the Burger King himself ran him over.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> I'm not a big Kobe fan, but Kobe has as much talent as Manu and Bowen put together (currently, Manu is still young and improving).


Kobe is younger then Manu, so... 

I don't think this disputes your points necessarily, but just pointing this out.

STOMP


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> Kobe is younger then Manu, so...
> ...


Your right, but I don't ever figure Manu will ever be as good as Kobe. Maybe even the combination of Manu at his prime and another player of his caliber couldn't be as good as Kobe(talent wise). But I would take Manu on my team just because he's a solid role player.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> Then how can you explain an upset? A team clearly more talented beats a team that is clearly not in the same leauge? By your logic, the most talented team always wins. IMO having talent is one thing, combining what talent you have into a winning combination is different. I'm not a big Kobe fan, but Kobe has as much talent as Manu and Bowen put together (currently, Manu is still young and improving).


You have a point, there are upsets. But that is not the case here. If all the Lakers were healthy I would say the Laker’s starting 5 had more talent than the Spurs. Even with how bad Fish, Horry/Madsen and George stunk it up all season. But this simply was not the case with Kobe’s shoulder and Shaq not being in shape and his foot problems. Because of this, it was not an upset; the Spurs just had more talent available and healthy.




> I do dislike the lakers, but its mostly because I hate watching a team dumping the ball to shaq and watching him force people under the basket who are half his weight, dunk on them, and manage to have a defensive foul called because the guy was moving his feet when 300 lbs of the Burger King himself ran him over.


So you admit you just don’t like Shaq’s game, probably because your team(s) have been the whipping boys of the Lakers the prior 3 years. And by the way, Shaq does have a few other moves than this. I think you’re just bitter and jealous that even though the Spurs won, everyone’s talking about the Lakers, not the Spurs. And as if we’re not tired of TD getting all those lame calls.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> So you admit you just don’t like Shaq’s game, probably because your team(s) have been the whipping boys of the Lakers the prior 3 years. And by the way, Shaq does have a few other moves than this. I think you’re just bitter and jealous that even though the Spurs won, everyone’s talking about the Lakers, not the Spurs. And as if we’re not tired of TD getting all those lame calls.


That's unfair! The Mavericks have been the Lakers whipping boys for over 10 years, not 3. They have lost 51 out of the last 55 games to them after all.

And I always knew the difference between Shaq and Ostertagg, Oliver Miller and Thomas Hamilton is Burger King endorsements.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*THIS QUOTE MAKES ME SICK*

"So you admit you just don’t like Shaq’s game, probably because your team(s) have been the whipping boys of the Lakers the prior 3 years. And by the way, Shaq does have a few other moves than this. "

1. You call that a game?
I would say his "game" belongs on a wrestling mat.
He is obnoxious to say the least.
The part that really gets me,is that Laker fans don't seem to 
realize how unfair the fouls are on THE OTHER PLAYERS that
play against him.
How can you have such an unfair advantage,and call that 
a game?
How bout a mugging?

2. What did you call the Lakers during the 13 year dry spell?
Did you refer to your team as the whipping boys of another
team? I doubt it. The Lakers are a five man team.
Shaq,Kobe and the refs.
Without help from the refs,they wouldn't have their titles.

3. A few other moves..
oh yeah,he sure does...
THE BUTT SHOVE
THE SHOULDER PUSH
THE BUNNY HOP
THE WALK
THE HOOK,AS IN HOOK OTHER PLAYERS.
THE BODY SHOVE,PUSH,LEAN...
THE JUMPING INTO OTHER PLAYERS,AND GETTING THEM 
INTO FOUL TROUBLE..
oh wait..that's Kobe..
that's his favorite stunt,jump into them and get the shot
and the foul on them.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> So you admit you just don’t like Shaq’s game, probably because your team(s) have been the whipping boys of the Lakers the prior 3 years. And by the way, Shaq does have a few other moves than this. I think you’re just bitter and jealous that even though the Spurs won, everyone’s talking about the Lakers, not the Spurs. And as if we’re not tired of TD getting all those lame calls.


I start to think you guys would take spam over steak... if the spam was purple and gold of course.

Or is it the lack of a football team that drives LA to enjoy Shaq's game?


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> That's unfair! The Mavericks have been the Lakers whipping boys for over 10 years, not 3. They have lost 51 out of the last 55 games to them after all.


And you point is??? All I am saying is that this guy doesn't really dislike Shaq's comments...but rather, the truth comes out that he simply dislikes everything about Shaq because he is so dominant. Shaq's moves are perfectly legal and this guy probably thinks the NBA needs to force Shaq to change his game by changing the rules. So all this whining isn't about Shaq making crazy comments on TV, it's about people taking jabs at Shaq simply because they dislike everything about him since he is so dominant and schools their favorite team. 

And I always knew the difference between Shaq and Ostertagg, Oliver Miller and Thomas Hamilton is Burger King endorsements. [/QUOTE]

I think there is a little more to it than than. Besides, this has nothing to do with the conversation...please stay on track or explain where you're going if you think it add's to the discussion.:sigh:


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: THIS QUOTE MAKES ME SICK*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> 
> 1. You call that a game?
> I would say his "game" belongs on a wrestling mat.
> ...


Yes, I call it a game. If it belonged on a wrestling mat don’t you think the NBA would have taken action by now…or maybe you know more about basketball and how it should be played than everyone that actually works for the NBA. 

He is obnoxious to you because you dislike him, maybe if people didn’t react so much to what he says than he wouldn’t try to get in the media so much. It’s similar to why my brother-in-law picks on his sister so much…because she reacts every time. He doesn’t pick on his other sister because she doesn’t react when he does. 

Unfair fouls…LOL. Get over it, you are not the refs or the NBA, so you have no say in what a foul is. If I had any say, I’d call all the million fouls that Shaq doesn’t get, in addition, if multiple people fouled Shaq at the same time, I’d give Shaq 2 shots for each one. But I don’t have any say, so I’m over it and I accept what the league decides is a call. And what is this unfair advantage? The fact that players are allows to mug Shaq without a call but when he taps someone it’s a foul? Yeah, the Shaq’s opponents have an unfair advantage over Shaq in that case…but he makes up for it by his size and dominance. 



> 2. What did you call the Lakers during the 13 year dry spell?
> Did you refer to your team as the whipping boys of another
> team? I doubt it. The Lakers are a five man team.
> Shaq,Kobe and the refs.
> Without help from the refs,they wouldn't have their titles.


It was actually an eleven year dry spell, and yes, our loser team were the whipping boys of the Jazz and others. And please, stop crying about the refs, Lakers have plenty of evidence to the contrary. Some argue that DESPITE THE REFS, THE LAKERS HAVE THEIR TITLES!!!! So get over it.



> 3. A few other moves..
> oh yeah,he sure does...
> THE BUTT SHOVE
> THE SHOULDER PUSH
> ...


LOL, quite funny. Yes, he has those skills and he does them in a way that they are all perfectly legal. And the Kobe move you are referring to is done by many other players in the league and was done long before Kobe was around. Get over it, you are now simply spouting your hatred for the Lakers which has nothing to do with and provides no basis for intelligent debate about Shaq’s media comments. If you want to start a bash Shaq thread, go for it…and start it in the Laker forum if you can handle it. You can see that I am man enough to debate against anti-Lakers.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> 
> I start to think you guys would take spam over steak... if the spam was purple and gold of course.
> ...


How does this add or relate to the topic? Or maybe you simply can no longer support your arguments that you have to resort to attacking Laker fans. Too bad, I guess you give up on the debate and are admitting that I am right. :sigh:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Shaq is, IMO, the best player in the NBA. Watching him play is not nearly as exciting as watching McGrady, Kobe, or some of the other guys, but if I had to choose a single player to start a franchise with, it would undoubtedly be Shaq for me.

Dunno if this fits into the thread at all... I haven't read it all, but I wanted to give my opinion as one who hates the Lakers almost as much as I like the Blazers (although them not winning again has lessened that a smidge from this time last year).

Ed O.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> How does this add or relate to the topic? Or maybe you simply can no longer support your arguments that you have to resort to attacking Laker fans. Too bad, I guess you give up on the debate and are admitting that I am right. :sigh:


Not admitting, just quitting... Theres no convincing me I'm in the wrong, and same goes for you. You like Shaq for what he is now. And I dislike him for the same reasons. I'm sure Shaq was in Sac town you'd see my point. And If Shaq was in Dallas I wouldn't say much about his style of play. But I rather have a run and gun team than a bang and ***** team.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> Not admitting, just quitting... Theres no convincing me I'm in the wrong, and same goes for you. You like Shaq for what he is now. And I dislike him for the same reasons. I'm sure Shaq was in Sac town you'd see my point. And If Shaq was in Dallas I wouldn't say much about his style of play. But I rather have a run and gun team than a bang and ***** team.



You admit that you're quitting...that proves that you cannot support your claims and that they are unfounded. Sure you will not be convinced but everyone reading this can see right through you. Its clear that you just want to disagree with a Laker fan for the sake of disagreeing and because you dont like the Lakers...other than that you cannot support your arguments.

If Shaq was in Sac then I'd have to root for the lakers and Sac and I would be in a dilema when they played, but he's not in Sac. Jordan was in Chicago but I didn't hate him like you do Shaq just because they are/were dominant. 

As for the style of play, I agree that we will just have to disagree...I like a big man's game. However, you are now contradicting yourself, you said you liked Shaq's game in Orlando but now you dont. His game is not all that different, it's just that the offense is run through him more now. As I said, you just are disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing with a Laker fan.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> You admit that you're quitting...that proves that you cannot support your claims and that they are unfounded. Sure you will not be convinced but everyone reading this can see right through you. Its clear that you just want to disagree with a Laker fan for the sake of disagreeing and because you dont like the Lakers...other than that you cannot support your arguments.


I don't think ceasing to argue proves any such thing. If I am walking down the street, and someone's standing on the corner preaching about religion/politics/cheese/whatever and I ask them a question to challenge them and they just blather on in their own way (don't mess with the Gouda Dialectic...) and I choose to walk away rather than wasting my time, it doesn't prove that I was wrong, or that I didn't think that the speaker was wrong, or any such thing. 

Sometimes life's too short to keep arguing, whether it's on a street corner or BBB.net.

Ed O.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*in response to jstempi*

You have got to be kidding with your post.

I loved it when you said "Yes, he has those skills and he does them in a way that they are all perfectly legal."

Just how is that way???

I don't recall anybody else clearing out and getting away with it.
I believe more traveling calls were called this last year than ever before...except on Mr. Bunny.

I thought there were more charging calls this last year..
except on Mr. Shaq.

Backing down was taken to a new low..
don't see others getting away with it.

Shaq is a joke..
as far as others saying he is the best player inthe league..
well with his Carte Blanche..you may be right.

Call fouls on him..he ain't so hot.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

*Re: in response to jstempi*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> You have got to be kidding with your post.
> 
> I loved it when you said "Yes, he has those skills and he does them in a way that they are all perfectly legal."
> ...


Amen!


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

*Appreciate Shaq*

Shaq is without doubt the most dominant player I have ever seen play. He mixes physical domination with mental domination. Hes an amazing athlete but hes also the master of mind games and intimidation. His style is something you can never see again. The quickness, the post moves, the power, the desire, the mental calculation and the ferocity is unmatched by any player you will ever see. Since when has there a player who dropped 30 a game strictly in the paint. Never has a player owned a part of the court so emphatically. The paint is Shaquilles. Dont argue or youll be eating foot in your face along with a poster with your punk *** getting stuffed on. 


Shaq is a legend of the game and a joy to watch. To say hes got no skills or no basketball IQ is full on BULL****. Idiots with no offensive skills or IQ dont carry teams to 3 straight NBA titles. The NBA is about mental domination. But Shaq changed the game and got physical domination into the equation as well.


Shaqs personality is to be APPRECIATED. You will never evvvvvvvvver see the dominant player in this sport or any other be so REAL and ENTERTAINING at the same time. Do yall prefer politically correct, hypocritical phonies like MJordan, corporate cows like yao Ming or bland zombies like Tim Duncan to be the representative of the game??? I hope not man. What other star of the game will taunt opposing players with fighting, joke with racial stereotypes, brag about ****ing venus williams, or talk the smack that Shaq does. The man is 100% entertainment. More then 50% of the entertainment from boxing and pro wrestling comes from the promotion and smack talking. Shaq mixes serious sports with the entertainment of talking smack. The man is a genius promoter of the sport. 

Trust me if all basketball players were like Shaq and we got players calling out other players to fight on court. Basketball WOULD be Pay per view and popular like never before.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

It's posters like Laker4peat that give Laker fans a bad name. Can it get anymore obvious from the his post? What a joke! :no:


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

Stevemc. Youre wrong. I dont appreciate Shaq just cause hes a Laker. If he played in Sac Town, SA or Portland Id still be a fan. I been a fan since way back he was in Orlando. I hate the Kings but I know Webbers smack talking is good for the game. I hate the Blazers but I know Sheeds actions are good for the game. I hate the Spurs but I know ...... they are boring and bad for the game.

Its called the Warren Sapp effect. Everybody knows the Bucs are boring on the field because their offense makes Shawn Bradleys look fluid and dominant in comparison. But they want to watch because Warren Sapp opened his mouth on Sportscenter. Check Pro Wrestling. Theres next to no substance in it but its popular on the smack talk alone. You dont want basketball to degenerate into Jerry Springer but as long as you got the substance, which is good basketball been played with the smack its not a concern. More personality in the game is needed.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think ceasing to argue proves any such thing. If I am walking down the street, and someone's standing on the corner preaching about religion/politics/cheese/whatever and I ask them a question to challenge them and they just blather on in their own way (don't mess with the Gouda Dialectic...) and I choose to walk away rather than wasting my time, it doesn't prove that I was wrong, or that I didn't think that the speaker was wrong, or any such thing.
> ...



I agree, but in this instance stevemc and I are both spouting opinions I disputed his and he couldn't respond to refute me. Therefore his quitting shows that either he is wrong or lacks the ability to support his arguments.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: in response to jstempi*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> You have got to be kidding with your post.
> 
> I loved it when you said "Yes, he has those skills and he does them in a way that they are all perfectly legal."
> ...


The fact that the refs don't call it means it is a legal move, yes refs miss calls but Shaq does these moves so often that if they were illegal moves they would be called so frequently that Shaq could no longer use the move. Duh. Your opinions are clearly unfounded and you obviously just dont like Shaq. Because of this, your thoughts have no value.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> It's posters like Laker4peat that give Laker fans a bad name. Can it get anymore obvious from the his post? What a joke! :no:


Well, it's posters like you who simply attack people without providing any support or intelligent reasoning that ruin threads where an intelligent debate is going on. :no:

You did not refute anything he said, that must mean that you agree but just dont want to admit it. If not, than please include any glimpse of intelligent arguments in your posts.

And by the way, anti-Lakers give Laker fans a bad name whether or not they deserve it. So who cares what you think about us.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: in response to jstempi*



> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> The fact that the refs don't call it means it is a legal move, yes refs miss calls but Shaq does these moves so often that if they were illegal moves they would be called so frequently that Shaq could no longer use the move. Duh. Your opinions are clearly unfounded and you obviously just dont like Shaq. Because of this, your thoughts have no value.



wooop! wooop! Error in logic! Error in logic!

"but Shaq does these moves so often that if they were illegal moves they would be called so frequently that Shaq could no longer use the move. Duh. "

well, Jordan travelled a lot, and if it were illegal to travel, the refs would have called him on it, so he wouldn't travel anymore, right?

Oh wait, he got superstar calls. D'oh!

(Game Show voice on) I'm sorry, but saying that since the refs don't call him for fouls means they're not illegal is the wrong answer! (Game show voice off).


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, it's posters like you who simply attack people without providing any support or intelligent reasoning that ruin threads where an intelligent debate is going on. :no:
> ...


well, if you don't care about what they think about you, why are you still responding? Why are you in this forum responding to the posts?


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

*Hey, no fighting on Rasheed's birthday.*


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> Well, it's posters like you who simply attack people without providing any support or intelligent reasoning that ruin threads where an intelligent debate is going on. :no:
> 
> You did not refute anything he said, that must mean that you agree but just dont want to admit it. If not, than please include any glimpse of intelligent arguments in your posts.
> ...


I didn't think one would have to go into detail to describe how pathetic that post was by Laker4peat (I didn't think the Lakers won 4 in a row). Shaq is the most dominant player in the league for sure...I cant refute that statement. I like the way he plays the game. I just don't like his moronic statements, chicken **** punches from behind, racist statements, and overall stupidity. The NBA is about entertainment and Shaq does his share for sure. I just don't have repsect for the guy who doesn't respect others in the league. He talks like a moron with a limited vocabulary and most of it isn't funny to me. I like seeing good physical play in the paint but fighting is not good for the NBA. And I think talking about how he screwed Venus and Serena Williams, Janet Jackson, and a few others is not a joke. Shaq and some Laker fans might think it's funny but it's disrespectful and reveals his true colors. I like Shaq as a basketball player but not as a person.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> I like Shaq as a basketball player but not as a person.


Same here.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

You know, reading this thread reminds me of

this song.


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

No fighting on Rasheeds birthday.


hahaha that made me laugh man. Good stuff that was a classic.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but in this instance stevemc and I are both spouting opinions I disputed his and he couldn't respond to refute me. Therefore his quitting shows that either he is wrong or lacks the ability to support his arguments.


Naw, I just have better things to do then argue with you over Shaq. But today I'm at work and bored so heres some more for ya.

My only problems with Shaq is his ego is just too big, and he's too big. Orlando Shaq was more athletic and mobile. 1st couple years in LA, it was all gravy. Then his ego and his waist got a lil too big. and being physically larger took his game to knocking people out of the way more often. Probably out of laziness.


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## Sha-Kobe O'Bryant (Jan 3, 2003)

Shaq's the most dominating force this game has ever seen. Thank the basketball gods he's on our side.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: in response to jstempi*



> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> wooop! wooop! Error in logic! Error in logic!
> 
> ...


Oh, come on. I don't agree with you about the Jordan traveling conspiracy, but assuming Jordan had a few non-calls throughout a game, that is not as relevant as what this guy is talking about. He's saying every move Shaq makes is illegal. I doubt seriously the refs would allow that. Give me a break.

And by the way, Hap, I'd bet you were in drama with the way you responded. :grinning:


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## p (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> I hope LA and Shaq gets punked this year.
> 
> I wonder how long Kobe will be in jail.


So LA and Shaq are gonna get punk'd??? oh i get it, they are going to punk him by telling Shaq that Kobe went to prison... damn that Ashton Kutcher... YOULL GET YOURS SOME DAY!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: in response to jstempi*



> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> Oh, come on. I don't agree with you about the Jordan traveling conspiracy, but assuming Jordan had a few non-calls throughout a game, that is not as relevant as what this guy is talking about. He's saying every move Shaq makes is illegal. I doubt seriously the refs would allow that. Give me a break.


I believe the person you were responding to is a female. but none the less.

The refs let a lot of superstars get away with stuff, and suggesting that not being called means it's not illegal is not accurate. Jordan travelled, and could get sneezed on, and he'd get fouls called in his favor. 



> And by the way, Hap, I'd bet you were in drama with the way you responded. :grinning:


nope, wasn't in drama, and I'm straight.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> well, if you don't care about what they think about you, why are you still responding? Why are you in this forum responding to the posts?


First of all, I was referring to him and other anti-laker fan people. I respond because of less blindly bias people who read these things. I used to only read the forums for months before I started to actually post opinions. I didn't want to post because I knew I would handily destroy people in debates. So for all those who just read these forums for rumors and such, and for people who aren't blindly jumping on the laker fan hater bandwagon...these posts are for you.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> I didn't think one would have to go into detail to describe how pathetic that post was by Laker4peat (I didn't think the Lakers won 4 in a row). Shaq is the most dominant player in the league for sure...I cant refute that statement. I like the way he plays the game. I just don't like his moronic statements, chicken **** punches from behind, racist statements, and overall stupidity. The NBA is about entertainment and Shaq does his share for sure. I just don't have repsect for the guy who doesn't respect others in the league. He talks like a moron with a limited vocabulary and most of it isn't funny to me. I like seeing good physical play in the paint but fighting is not good for the NBA. And I think talking about how he screwed Venus and Serena Williams, Janet Jackson, and a few others is not a joke. Shaq and some Laker fans might think it's funny but it's disrespectful and reveals his true colors. I like Shaq as a basketball player but not as a person.


So basically you are saying that you agree with everything Laker4peat said, but wish he didn't say it because:

(1)He is right
(2)You don't like Shaq's statements even though you know they make him and the league money.

I agree with you about Shaq as a player, but Shaq could stand some character improvement. Couldn't we all???


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> Naw, I just have better things to do then argue with you over Shaq. But today I'm at work and bored so heres some more for ya.
> 
> My only problems with Shaq is his ego is just too big, and he's too big. Orlando Shaq was more athletic and mobile. 1st couple years in LA, it was all gravy. Then his ego and his waist got a lil too big. and being physically larger took his game to knocking people out of the way more often. Probably out of laziness.


Hey, I have some time too. All I have to say is that the weight and ego seem to be working for him. Shaq in Orlando = zero championships and a top 5 center. Shaq in LA = 3 championships and the title of most dominant player ever, not to mention # 1 center. And seeing him knock people over like bowling pins is way more fun/exciting than the Orlando Shaq.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> First of all, I was referring to him and other anti-laker fan people. I respond because of less blindly bias people who read these things. I used to only read the forums for months before I started to actually post opinions. I didn't want to post because I knew I would handily destroy people in debates. So for all those who just read these forums for rumors and such, and for people who aren't blindly jumping on the laker fan hater bandwagon...these posts are for you.


sorry about that, I shouldn't have barked at you like that.


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

My Karma detector indicates the Lakers will have a meltdown and finish crappy just like last year all over again.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> (2)You don't like Shaq's statements even though you know they make him and the league money.


It's impossible to definitively prove if Shaq's questionable statements make/lose him or the league more/less money then if he just kept his mouth shut like MJ did. It's far from a fact that it has been a wind fall for the league that he keeps popping off though. All you're going on is your guess that it has, which is hardly factual. Dispite keeping whatever possibly offensive views he might have held on other minorities, players, fighting, women, ect. to himself, Mike had a much bigger endorsement portfolio, a more successful movie, and a whole slew of young stars paying respect and imatating everything from his moves to his public persona in hopes of being the next MJ. Of course he couldn't touch Shaq's mad DJ skillz...

STOMP


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

does someone really think it's funny that shaq tells he has slept with williams sisters and janet jackson? or that he is going to be back and fighting again? maybe he is just marketing himself and the league at the same time as you say, but he could do it in some other way. or even better, let the game market itself. and besides, all this marketing of individual talent, not team play and changing rules to emphasize individual players really only makes NBA basketball less interesting to me. I don't think there's anything as boring as someone dribbling on the wing and beating his defender for the basket, without a single pass during the whole possession. basketball is a team game. 

to me the worst thing that shaq does, is talk disrespectfully about his rivals in the press. I have no problem with trash-talk on the court, but it shouldn't be in the papers. there's absolutely no class in that. 

shaq is agreat player, no doubt about that. and it's not his fault that refs allow him to do almost anything on the court. I also admit being a "hater". I just don't think the way shaq plays is the way that basketball was meant to be played. this is of course only my opinion. I wouldn't want to see shaq in a blazer uniform. but I admit, when in shape he is unstoppable.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> I didn't want to post because I knew I would handily destroy people in debates.


Wow.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow.
> ...


I ownz you Ed O.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*to jstempi*

"The fact that the refs don't call it means it is a legal move, yes refs miss calls but Shaq does these moves so often that if they were illegal moves they would be called so frequently that Shaq could no longer use the move. Duh. Your opinions are clearly unfounded and you obviously just dont like Shaq. Because of this, your thoughts have no value."


I would take you to be about 15..
am I right??
I want you to read this post again,and tell me you have the *guts*
to to tell me my thoughts have no value.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: to jstempi*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> "The fact that the refs don't call it means it is a legal move, yes refs miss calls but Shaq does these moves so often that if they were illegal moves they would be called so frequently that Shaq could no longer use the move. Duh. Your opinions are clearly unfounded and you obviously just dont like Shaq. Because of this, your thoughts have no value."
> 
> ...tell me my thoughts have no value.


Your thoughts have no value! There I did what you asked. Now, apparently you didn't understand why I said this. Let me explain. 

You keep providing your thoughts like:

“I believe more traveling calls were called this last year than ever before...except on {Shaq}”

and

”I thought there were more charging calls this last year except on Mr. Shaq.”

Well, I thought plenty of calls, especially charging calls, were made on Shaq this past year but thoughts don’t have any value without factual numbers when a person like you who is so blatantly and blindly biased against Shaq is the one providing those “thoughts”. When debating as a biased person, stick to posting facts to support your arguments, not feelings or opinion, if you want anyone to take you seriously.

In response to your sophomoric question regarding my age, I’m 26. Intellectually though, I am probably 25 to 30 years beyond you.


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

i don't think you should be talking down to Jackie like that even if you disagree with her. She is a longtime member of the Blazer family, have some respect.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

I don't think anyone should take jstempi very serious. That person has no respect for anyone and it's quite obvious by reading their posts. The poster is immature beyond anything I have seen on this board.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

jstempi, I've let you go on in this thread, without much intervention from the mods or the admins. But come on, let's be respectful of people you barely know, and of this forum.

Despite your claim that you "didn't want to post because I knew I would handily destroy people in debates." you haven't destroyed anyone here. Infact, if anything, you've made yourself less welcome than almost any poster on this board. You can't come in here and think that based on your "past" on other boards or newsgroups, that you can come on and "destroy" any of our posters, or anything remotely close to that. 

The reason? We don't play that "I destroyed you!" game. Some of us disagree with each other, and some of us annoy the living snot out of each other, but we don't purposely try to make someone "go away" or claim victory if they stop responding. 

Either you take it down a notch, or quit posting here. The majority of us won't mind if you post here but keep the attitude on low. Otherwise, don't post here, we don't want our threads to escalate into one big clusterfrick of arguments and "See? I was right. Your opinion has no value"

If you want to keep posting here, you're welcome, but not if you keep up the antaganizing attitude.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

How can't we take him seriously, he's handily destroying us! :laugh: Seriously jstempi, you are at least as blatently biased for Shaq as the people you are accusing of being biased against. The "facts" you site as to why he's regularly making offensive statements are only your opinions. 

It's truely amazing that you have polarized this group of posters to the point where Ed O, jackie, tommyboy, and myself are all on the same page. 

STOMP


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
> i don't think you should be talking down to Jackie like that even if you disagree with her. She is a longtime member of the Blazer family, have some respect.


Read her post to me and tell me she didn't talk down to me first. She deserves what she got and I dont care how long anyone's been in this forum, I'll take on anyone without fear - even mods. So get over it.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

I don't see where she personally attacked you. Is saying "you've got to be kidding with your post" worthy of the demeaning response "your opinions have no value" in your mind? To me, she's merely preluding to the reasons she completely disagrees with your expressed opinion, while you're in full personal insult mode. Maybe it was something else that set you off that I'm overlooking...

STOMP


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> Read her post to me and tell me she didn't talk down to me first. She deserves what she got and I dont care how long anyone's been in this forum, I'll take on anyone without fear - even mods. So get over it.


hear that? Its the sound of inevitability. 

goodbye! don't let the door hit ya on the way out.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> I'll take on anyone without fear - even mods. So get over it.


Hmmm...threatening to take on Mods is a good way to make yourself very unwelcome.

He said she said is all irrelevant. all that is relevant is how you hanldle it. What it boils down to is how one conducts oneself on this forum. If you have been attacked ask a mod to help you with the situation, rather than fighting back. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but also everyone has the privelege of being treated with respect. DOn't be a part of the proble, but help to be part of the solution by infroming Mods of iisuse that they can rectify. If problems persist Mods CM's and Admins have the ability to take further action than just warnings.

Trying to fire back is a good way to alienate other posters, who may in fact be valuable contributors.(yse even die hard Laker/Shaq fans). As Blazer fans we should extend the same courtesy we would expect should we venture to another board and engage in offering opinions.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> jstempi, I've let you go on in this thread, without much intervention from the mods or the admins. But come on, let's be respectful of people you barely know, and of this forum.
> 
> Despite your claim that you "didn't want to post because I knew I would handily destroy people in debates." you haven't destroyed anyone here. Infact, if anything, you've made yourself less welcome than almost any poster on this board. You can't come in here and think that based on your "past" on other boards or newsgroups, that you can come on and "destroy" any of our posters, or anything remotely close to that.
> ...


Forgive me. I realize my tone has been negative and I have tried to hold my tongue (believe it or not). This whole thing started when an antagonistic post was made about Laker players. I posted antagonistic disagreement with another poster and then I was personally attacked, so I bit back and it went on. This seems to happen when I venture out of the Laker forum into other forums. People seem to just hate the Lakers and their fans (without merit I might add) and attack them without trying to understand their points.

Everyone seems to have missed my points in this thread…maybe because they just don’t like the Lakers and need to be more open minded. So if all you ol’ timers in this forum are in line against me, so be it. I will know in the future not to dispute anything you say for fear that I will be attacked, and that if I attack back everyone will lobby to get me banned or something. Certainly my comments were antagonizing and were not necessary, but was I the only one. Am I being singled out because I am the lone opposing voice of the Lakers in this thread?

In no way do I want anyone to go away, but rather, I’d prefer that they come back with a good argument to refute mine to stimulate thought and discussion, if they cannot I claim victory, but I guess I will no long do this within the thread. My approach may not have been the best but I was not the only one throwing out insults. I will try to be less insulting in the future.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: to jstempi*

*jstempi -*

I'm going to respond to your recent posts once, then I'm putting you on to my "ignore" list. I'm willing to put up with posters who poke fun at one another and even an insult or two. But your posts have deteriorated into nothing more than "You are clearly biased" and "Therefore your thoughts have no value." Saying that about a poster such as jackie, who has demonstrated intelligence in her posts here for a long time, shows a lack of respect on your part that I can no longer tolerate.




> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> In response to your sophomoric question regarding my age, I’m 26. Intellectually though, I am probably 25 to 30 years beyond you.


I'm surprised. Because honestly, you come across as a 16 year old who has just discovered forensics. 

Take a long look at your recent posts. You contend that their opinions are not supported by facts. But what do you use to argue against their opinion? Facts? No, you use your own opinions!

For example, this recent response to jackie:



> Yes, I call it a game. If it belonged on a wrestling mat don’t you think the NBA would have taken action by now…or maybe you know more about basketball and how it should be played than everyone that actually works for the NBA.
> 
> He is obnoxious to you because you dislike him, maybe if people didn’t react so much to what he says than he wouldn’t try to get in the media so much. It’s similar to why my brother-in-law picks on his sister so much…because she reacts every time. He doesn’t pick on his other sister because she doesn’t react when he does.
> 
> Unfair fouls…LOL. Get over it, you are not the refs or the NBA, so you have no say in what a foul is. If I had any say, I’d call all the million fouls that Shaq doesn’t get, in addition, if multiple people fouled Shaq at the same time, I’d give Shaq 2 shots for each one. But I don’t have any say, so I’m over it and I accept what the league decides is a call. And what is this unfair advantage? The fact that players are allows to mug Shaq without a call but when he taps someone it’s a foul? Yeah, the Shaq’s opponents have an unfair advantage over Shaq in that case…but he makes up for it by his size and dominance.


The first paragraph - your opinion. YOU call it a game. YOU think that the NBA would have taken action by now. Then YOU contend that jackie is putting herself intellectually above everyone in the league. There are no objective facts in this paragraph, just your opinions.


The second paragraph - your opinion. YOU contend that jackie thinks that Shaq is obnoxious because she simply doesn't like him. This does not logically follow. Now, if you could somehow prove this syllogism, you would have proof:

If jackie does not like someone, she also thinks they are obnoxious
jackie does not like Shaq
Therefore, jackie thinks that Shaq is obnoxious

But you did nothing of the kind - nor could you. YOU simply contend that it is similar to a situation that you have first-hand knowledge of. You never prove that it is similar, you simply assume that it is so. There again are no objective facts in this paragraph, just your opinions.


The third paragraph - your opinions again. Actually, you come closest to providing objective facts here. You assume that jackie is not a referee or league official, and you're probably correct. But then YOU say that if you had the chance, you'd call the "million fouls that Shaq doesn't get", which is YOUR opinion of the situation.

Then comes the point where you contradict a previous post of yours. You contend that "I’m over it and I accept what the league decides is a call." But in an earlier post, you say, "And as if we’re not tired of TD getting all those lame calls. " Do you not see a contradiction here?

You continue by claiming "The fact that players are allows to mug Shaq without a call but when he taps someone it’s a foul?" which again is YOUR assessment, made without the use of any objective evidence. This is YOUR opinion, not a fact.


Do you get what I'm saying? You ask for "facts" to dispute your statements, but don't provide "facts" yourself.

I'd guess that 95% of what is posted on the board is opinion. And that (in my opinion) is the way it should be. You can disagree and you have that right. But you do NOT have the right to chastise others for not posting "facts" when you have not done so either. You do NOT have the right to claim superiority when all you have done is to post your opinions and then contend that you are right. 


I hope that you take this post in the manner in which I am trying to present it. It's my opinion (I'm not afraid to say it) that if you continue to approach life and other people with the attitude that you've demonstrated on this Board, then you'll do nothing more than push people away. I would hope that that really isn't your desire.

You can respond to this post if you want, but I'm putting you onto my "ignore" list, so I won't see it. I do wish you the best, though.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> Hmmm...threatening to take on Mods is a good way to make yourself very unwelcome.
> 
> ...


1. What I meant about taking on mods is that I have been personally attacked by a mod and complained and they apologized knowing it was against the rules and set a poor example.

2. Forgive me, I will use the appropriate procedures for harassment in the future and will tone down my arrogance.

3. Note that this is my first warning, I don’t understand why it is being done within the thread instead of respectfully and privately via e-mail, maybe you guys want to make an example out of me or get props from the ol’ timers I don’t know.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> Forgive me. I realize my tone has been negative and I have tried to hold my tongue (believe it or not). This whole thing started when an antagonistic post was made about Laker players. I posted antagonistic disagreement with another poster and then I was personally attacked, so I bit back and it went on. This seems to happen when I venture out of the Laker forum into other forums. People seem to just hate the Lakers and their fans (without merit I might add) and attack them without trying to understand their points.


This tends to be the case in fan based forums, IE the Lakers board, Blazers boar etc... If I see a post in say the Celtics board, that puts down Rasheed Wallace, if I go in an d basically tell the Celtics fans that they are messed up for thinking so, chances are I will get pelted with attacks, for either, A: Being a Homer or B: starting a flame war. It is the nature of boards, especailly busy ones like this.

What you say about dissention about the Lakers is definately true. Many of our posters came from a Oregon based board, devoted to the Blazers, where they were regularly harrassed by Laker fans. The standard tone was " Lakkers are the best team ever, Blazers suck, how can you like a team other than the Lakers...etc.." Basically blind arrogance contrived to be spiteful. Trust me Laker fans have a rough go on other boards.

I appreciate your willingness to participate and encourage you to keep posting on th Blazer board (it never hurts to hear other viewpoints from other teams fans).


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> Forgive me. I realize my tone has been negative and I have tried to hold my tongue (believe it or not)... I will try to be less insulting in the future.


OK done. See you on the boards. 

STOMP


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> 1. What I meant about taking on mods is that I have been personally attacked by a mod and complained and they apologized knowing it was against the rules and set a poor example.
> ...


No actually I wasn't giving you a warning, you weren't at fault anymore than anyone else. As far as the E-Mail issue, you don't have PM set up, nor does you're link to E-Mail work. I tried to respond to you that way as I definately feel that a public post is not the best way to handle issues.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

I realize by now that you have put me on your ignore list, but for the benefit of the readers of this thread I will respond. In addition, this will be my first earnest attempt to tone down my arrogance. So tell me how I do.



> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> *jstempi -*
> 
> I'm surprised. Because honestly, you come across as a 16 year old who has just discovered forensics.


Must…..resist….must be….nice person….



> Take a long look at your recent posts. You contend that their opinions are not supported by facts. But what do you use to argue against their opinion? Facts? No, you use your own opinions!


I never said all of my posts contained facts. I’ll submit that in your example that I do not know for sure that there isn’t some conspiracy in the NBA management that they allow any of Shaq’s moves even if they are illegal. But you have to admit that it is closer to fact than opinion. 

All of your arguments are based on the idea that a person (me) needs to provide facts when defending someone. To the contrary, the accuser is the one needing to provide facts, if not then their accusation, while appropriate on this board, has no merit. Knowing that the accusation is not based on fact poster on this forum would still debate the issue and that is what I am doing. 

Jackie accused Shaq of being a joke and basically playing dirty with a pass from the NBA. As I have explained, you must have facts (in the form of physical or circumstantial evidence if you were in court) to be successful in your accusation. When defending an accused person you can use facts to support your defense but you don’t have to. You can provide facts or information leading to reasonable doubt to defend the accused.

This is my opinion what I consider to be reasonable doubt as to why her accusations about Shaq are inaccurate…and she can feel free to refute it, if she does not, debate fundamentals indicate that my assertions would then have merit and that the accusation is false. Here’s the logical flow you asked for:

1. Shaq destroyed jackie’s favorite player/team, therefore, Jackie doesn’t like Shaq
2. Jackie doesn’t like Shaq, therefore, anything Shaq says Jackie thinks is obnoxious

Let us see if she refutes it and we can then discuss it more, but you may not be back unfortunately.




> I'd guess that 95% of what is posted on the board is opinion. And that (in my opinion) is the way it should be. You can disagree and you have that right. But you do NOT have the right to chastise others for not posting "facts" when you have not done so either. You do NOT have the right to claim superiority when all you have done is to post your opinions and then contend that you are right.


Making accusations based on opinion is fine, but one should not be upset or surprised when it is easily refuted. This is why there are so many short threads in this forum. Forgive my chastising people to present facts when accusing players/the NBA of doing bad things, in the future I will simply refute their assertions and request facts if they wish to successfully prove/argue their accusations. But I will try to do it in the nicest way possible.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> No actually I wasn't giving you a warning, you weren't at fault anymore than anyone else. As far as the E-Mail issue, you don't have PM set up, nor does you're link to E-Mail work. I tried to respond to you that way as I definately feel that a public post is not the best way to handle issues.


Fair enough. I selected the option to hide my e-mail address from regular poster because I don’t want any spam or solicitations. However, I selected the option to Allow Bulletin Board Administrators and Moderators To Send You Email Notices when I started my account. I don’t know why it doesn’t work for you since you are a mod.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*everybody sing*

we are family.. 
good support !


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey, I have some time too. All I have to say is that the weight and ego seem to be working for him. Shaq in Orlando = zero championships and a top 5 center. Shaq in LA = 3 championships and the title of most dominant player ever, not to mention # 1 center. And seeing him knock people over like bowling pins is way more fun/exciting than the Orlando Shaq.


He left Orlando right before his prime though. No telling how good Orlando could of been with Shaq as their corner stone. 

Fun/Exciting.... Sundays on Fox they have football on, you should check it out. Fun and exciting in basketball to me is a Mavs and Kings game. But I guess you and me will ever see eye to eye.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> 
> 
> He left Orlando right before his prime though. No telling how good Orlando could of been with Shaq as their corner stone.
> ...


I'm not saying a mavx kings game isn't exciting. In fact, I love watching them too. But I just love Shaq's work. And by the way, no fooseball for me, never liked the sport.


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## dukeballer25 (Aug 26, 2003)

wow, wise words from shaq

maybe he should put it in his raps


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not saying a mavx kings game isn't exciting. In fact, I love watching them too. But I just love Shaq's work. And by the way, no fooseball for me, never liked the sport.


You like watching Shaq, you have to like football. Or you get enough of it by watching Shaq.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Shaq's own words two seasons ago... "I'm the best NFL player in the NBA"

STOMP


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

shaq is boring to watch. all he does is knock people down and dunk on them, woohoo!

i'd rather watch Kobe actually, and I hate Kobe, plus I hate the Lakers, but as far as aesthetically pleasing games its no contest.

I guess I'd like Shaq better if he were a Blazer, but since he's a Laker he's automatically hated enemy material. I used to like Rick Fox before he became a Laker that is.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
> shaq is boring to watch. all he does is knock people down and dunk on them, woohoo!
> 
> i'd rather watch Kobe actually, and I hate Kobe, plus I hate the Lakers, but as far as aesthetically pleasing games its no contest.
> ...


odd, I hated Rick fox as a Celtic.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> odd, I hated Rick fox as a Celtic.


Its the Jerry Curl isn't it?


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