# Trade Rumors



## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

According to reports from your mom:

CD is working a trade to send David Wesley, Bobby Sura, and a future 1st rounder (or Spanoulis) to Toronto in exchange for Mo Peterson and Rafer Alston in light of their recent offer to Chris Duhon. 

Insiders and your mom report that if Chicago fails to match, Babcock will pull the trigger on the Rox/Raps deal.

CD also mentioned signing Doug Christie to a short term contract with the guarantee that he will get paid mo-money once we've relieved our capspace of our expiring contracts.

Van Gundy's final depth chart has leaked as:

PG: Skip | Mike James | Luther Head
SG: Doug Christie | Jon Barry | Luther Head
SF: Tracy McGrady | Mo Pete | Ryan Bowen
PF: Stromile Swift | Juwan Howard
CN: Yao Ming | Deke


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## ApheLion02 (Aug 5, 2005)

Is this a joke? Because if this happened, I'd probably kill some one. Mo Peterson is the only bright spot in this. The only way I'd do this is if we swap Mike James for Sura.

Btw, Christie has no game left. NONE. We'd have no one to stop SGs. And if he gets Maurice Taylor money...:curses:

Edit: We are NOT giving up Spanoulis or a future 1st, either.


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## jdiggidy (Jun 21, 2003)

If insiders, CD, and my mom are all true then I would welcome Doug Christie. Lets keep in mind that Christie played for a Sacramento team that had great success while he was there. I'm sure going to Orlando really sucked for him.

It would be sweet to sign him after his release from Orlando and have him perform the way he did when he played for Sacramento. There's something about punk'in Orlando that I like. Doug's like what 34 or something? He still has 1 or 2 more good years.

I do need to go back to my mom and ask her why CD would consider sending Spanolis as a part of that deal since he seems to be so high on this guy? I'm on the fence with aphelion02 though. Make it Mike James instead of Sura and a second round pick instead of a first and I'm all for it.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

my moms hasnt told me anything about this...and plus she's a Tim Duncan/San Antonio Spurs fan..why would she have the scoop on this


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

ApheLion02 said:


> Is this a joke? Because if this happened, I'd probably kill some one. Mo Peterson is the only bright spot in this. The only way I'd do this is if we swap Mike James for Sura.
> 
> Btw, Christie has no game left. NONE. We'd have no one to stop SGs. And if he gets Maurice Taylor money...:curses:
> 
> Edit: We are NOT giving up Spanoulis or a future 1st, either.


Christie is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. Getting him for the LLE would be the second best steal of the offseason for the Rockets (only after our Swift signing for the MLE).

Laff @ Mo Peterson being the only bright spot. The Rockets would kill for a pure pg like Alston. 

As for Spanoulis... youre one of those dudes that are still convinced that Boki will be the next Peja Stojakovich. Rockets have a horrible drafting track record. And our future 1st are pretty much devalued at this point considering were perenial playoff contenders and wont be seeing a lottery pick for a while.

Mike James was the go to guard last season, I would much rather him playing off the bench than have Sura coming off the bench. Any chance we have to unload Sura's contract is welcome. If you watched the playoffs at all last season, youll know that Mike James was virtually unguardable and provided a valuable scoring spark off the bench with his strength and speed. His only problem was that he was a horrible passer and tended to make bad decision passing the ball. He is also much better than Sura defending the PGs of the league.

All in all, I feel that every point you made was wrong... from your claim that Mo Pete being the bright spot to your assessment of Spanoulis who has yet been able to break 20 minutes a game in the Euroleague.


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## Shooter1583 (Nov 19, 2002)

Chicago will match Duhon's offer most likely...and either way I hate that trade for the Rockets...I'm hesitant about giving away a first-rounder...


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## Rockets83 (Aug 10, 2005)

whos ur "insider"? we're giving up way too much for two role players...I like the idea of signing Christie...but sura, wesley and a 1st for mo pete and rafer?? Cds not that stupid nor desperate...


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Rockets83 said:


> whos ur "insider"? we're giving up way too much for two role players...I like the idea of signing Christie...but sura, wesley and a 1st for mo pete and rafer?? Cds not that stupid nor desperate...


youre too dense to know that this was a trade idea in jest. apparently you think this is real inside information. Im assuming your mom is not a real insider.

next years draft wont be as deep as this years. I can guarantee that. our 1st rounders are very devalued. Sura and Wesley are injury prone and undersized. Both also play out of position. Mo Pete can give us much needed depth at the 3 and 2, which we desperately need.. not finding a swing would be stupid. He's a valuable scorer off the bench, as is Mike James and Juwan Howard.

still, youre entitled to what you think.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Shooter1583 said:


> Chicago will match Duhon's offer most likely...and either way I hate that trade for the Rockets...I'm hesitant about giving away a first-rounder...


you hate the trade, but hesitant about the 1st rounder. Im not understanding. Why do you feel this would be a abhorrable (as hate is a strong word) trade? And what makes you hesitant about trading a 1st rounder when our 2006 draft pick (who we have no idea will be) hasnt proven anything to you yet? I feel the same way towards spanoulis.. he hasnt proven anything but ppl are willing to cling to his balls like hes jesus.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

This would be an excellent trade for us if it went down. I've always liked Mo Peterson, the fact that we are getting Rafer Alston would be a major plus. Both are excellent 3 point shooters, and don't mind giving up the ball. Peterson is a tough perimeter defender, should be a great fit for us if he limits his shots. But I really don't see why Toronto would do this.


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

^yea I was under the impression they were trying to rebuild their team


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> This would be an excellent trade for us if it went down. I've always liked Mo Peterson, the fact that we are getting Rafer Alston would be a major plus. Both are excellent 3 point shooters, and don't mind giving up the ball. Peterson is a tough perimeter defender, should be a great fit for us if he limits his shots. But I really don't see why Toronto would do this.


I agree that T.dot has little to gain from this trade. Thats why I dont understand why so many ppl are saying they wouldnt do this trade from the Rox perspective (pls take your homer glasses off ppl). The incentive they have is wesleys exp contract and this first rounder (or spanoulis) as well as the opportunity to rid themselves of skip's contract and attitude.

Chris Duhon | Bobby Sura | Vassili Spanoulis
Jalen Rose | David Wesley | Jose Manuel
Joey Graham | Eric Williams | Lammond Murray
Charlie Villanueva | Aaron Williams
Chris Bosh | Rafael Araujo | Loren Woods


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Seed said:


> ^yea I was under the impression they were trying to rebuild their team


what better way to rebuild than by releasing fat contracts you dont want and acquiring picks (or spanoulis)?


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## Pasha The Great (Apr 9, 2005)

Is this a joke? I don't even know who Mo Peterson is. And all I know about Rafer is all his troubles in Toronto with Mitchel, but he has good #sl. Add on top of that, Christie, the psycho with a psycho-er wife, shooting up airball 3pters (worst decision maker ever) in the playoffs.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Pasha The Great said:


> I don't even know who Mo Peterson is.


that says it all.

secondly, the fact that you called christie the worst decision maker in the playoffs also shows how much you know about the game. Like i said, homers on this forum. Lets hold hands for Nick Van Exel instead!


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

TManiAC said:


> Christie is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. Getting him for the LLE would be the second best steal of the offseason for the Rockets (only after our Swift signing for the MLE).


Not anymore. He was supposed to provide defense for the Magic last season, but he didn't. It was pretty clear that he's lost quickness and speed. He's still slightly above average defensively, but he has a bad shot (bad fit to spot up). The other plus is his ability to play some point.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Christie, one of the best perimeter defenders in the league? Why did Sacramento and Orlando let him go then? Christie can defend, but I think the days of him being the "best" at anything or gone. As for Rafer Alston, don't forget about his attitude problems. Dude went through all kind of crazy stuff last year.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Christie, one of the best perimeter defenders in the league? Why did Sacramento and Orlando let him go then? Christie can defend, but I think the days of him being the "best" at anything or gone. As for Rafer Alston, don't forget about his attitude problems. Dude went through all kind of crazy stuff last year.


SacTo traded christie because they lost offense with Chris Webber gone.. their 2nd scoring option behind Peja... so they traded for Mobley who they thought was a big upgrade in offense without giving up much perimeter defense.. coincidentally, they became a poor perimeter team given cuttino was getting owned by bigger guards at the two.

and as for orlando.. how many orlando games have you watched? less than five? how many have you seen with christie? he only played in 20 because of injury problems and because Orlando found out fairly quickly they had NO offense outside of Steve Francis. Stevie's shift to two quickly took Christie out of the starting lineup and out of his element. 

You guys make it sound like im proposing we spend 8 mill a year for Christie.. do you realize how LITTLE 1.6 is for his services? Please... stop hating. Besides, if you were kobe and you had the ball in your hands... would you rather take it against a line up of Sura/Wesley/Tmac/Swift/Yao or Alston/Christie/Mac/Swift/Yao? Its plainly clear that the second lineup would be a defensive nightmare under JVGs tutelage... imagine what more Christie and Alston could learn as defenders when theyre considered solid perimeter defenders to begin with.

Im very aware of alstons problems, but besides asking for a trade.. what do you mean ALL KINDS OF crazy stuff? All i recall was a demand for a trade.. and who wouldnt with VC gone and finding yourself in the midst of a rebuild when you thought Bosh and VC would be playing beside you?

Im sure if we had picked up Christie for the LLE and traded aging wesley and brittle sura for the king of streetball, all of a sudden all you fans would turn around and call it our best offseason ever. Its funny how ppl change so drastically over a matter of weeks. I recall ppl *****in and moaning over losing jimmy jackson for wesley... wesley is useless, jimmy jackson was our leader. I bet 90% of you could care less where he is and cant even remember JJ in a rox uniform. Now we think wesley is part of our CORE... lol.. he was nothing more than a temporary fix that didnt really fix anything.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

TManiAC said:


> Im very aware of alstons problems, but besides asking for a trade.. what do you mean ALL KINDS OF crazy stuff? All i recall was a demand for a trade.. and who wouldnt with VC gone and finding yourself in the midst of a rebuild when you thought Bosh and VC would be playing beside you?


Well he did go on the record and state he wanted to quit basketball after he had a fight with his coach. It was rather bizarre.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

TManiAC said:


> SacTo traded christie because they lost offense with Chris Webber gone.. their 2nd scoring option behind Peja... so they traded for Mobley who they thought was a big upgrade in offense without giving up much perimeter defense.. coincidentally, they became a poor perimeter team given cuttino was getting owned by bigger guards at the two.
> 
> and as for orlando.. how many orlando games have you watched? less than five? how many have you seen with christie? he only played in 20 because of injury problems and because Orlando found out fairly quickly they had NO offense outside of Steve Francis. Stevie's shift to two quickly took Christie out of the starting lineup and out of his element.
> 
> ...


 actually, Christie was traded before Webber..about 2months before

Christie isn't the defender or player he used to be...but given much smaller role he could be really effective. Unlike what people may think he has nice jumper and can be a defacto PG at times..but you have to limit his minutes

all far as Mo Pete...athleticism and size from wing players is wanted and needed around these parts.

Now with Skip..i dont know


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

I love Mo Pete, I've talked about trying to acquire him since Mobley left. If we want to go w/ a youth movement then I highly support the suggested trade. It may not make us better next season but it sure will make us better in the long term.

TO wants to get rid of Skip, he's not their PG of the future. Wesley's an expiring contract, and Sura can still play. 

As for Christie, would be a good signing... problem is Mrs. Christie is included in the package :uhoh:


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Skip is a big question mark, I would not trust him as our primary PG.... but the talent is there, and I think having him play alongside T-Mac, Yao and Stro will really help his game. And there's a big difference having JVG as a coach compared to Sam Mitchell....


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## Ming_7_6 (May 6, 2005)

Doug Christie is totally washed up, and Bob Sura is the best player in this whole scenario.


I know you are just playing around with this idea, but I think you downgrade the value Sura and draft picks have.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

TManiAC said:


> Im very aware of alstons problems, but besides asking for a trade.. what do you mean ALL KINDS OF crazy stuff? All i recall was a demand for a trade.. and who wouldnt with VC gone and finding yourself in the midst of a rebuild when you thought Bosh and VC would be playing beside you?



Maybe I don't remember correctly, but I thought he was involved in about 3-4 incidents just this past season. MRC mentioned one of them.


I just thought there was some buzz in here about Van Exel being a "cancer" (maybe that was in another forum), so I just wanted to mention about the problems Rafer had.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Ming_7_6 said:


> Doug Christie is totally washed up, and Bob Sura is the best player in this whole scenario.
> 
> 
> I know you are just playing around with this idea, but I think you downgrade the value Sura and draft picks have.


1) the rockets have a horrible track record in drafts
2) JVG doesnt like to play rookies and hes our coach for the next 4-5 years
3) this years draft was an incredibly deep draft. Next years isnt nearly as good. 

Rafer alston has gotten better every year after coming off the streets with no real experience playing organized basketball ala college. He definitely has the tools for being a great PG comparable to gary payton. Luther Head and Mike James putting pressure on him for minutes will straighten out his game, JVG will straighten out his game, padding his stats with tons of assists and 3s off of TMac, Yao and Stro's presense will straighten out his game, winning will straighten out his game. 

The thought of an exciting, energetic, and fast paced game without losing our defensive tenacity is everything I could ask for. Mo Pete and Skip are both athletic, can score when they need to, know how to defer the ball to the superstars, and can play 48 minutes of high intensity defense. You cant say that for Wesley and Sura. In one way or another Sura and Wesley are a step behind Skip and Mo Pete. IMHO the draft pick is worth it for the reasons Ive mentioned. 

Right now, I feel with our LLE we have a snowflakes chance in the devils *** crack at getting Finley following the amnesty rule. In fact theres really no one thats servicable that would take the LLE. Christie is a quality player that can play 20-25 minutes a game between himself, Jon Barry, and Mo Pete. He would have a similar effect for us as Robert Horry or Brent Barry had for the Spurs. He is still a great defender, I dont know what the **** you guys are talking about him being washed up. He's still a top 10 perimeter defender in this league. If SacTo was in the playoffs and christie was playing, even at his current level, he would be comparable to Bruce Bowen and considered one of the leagues defensive elite. Even under Sacramento's offensively focused system he was a great defender. Under JVG Im sure his defensive recognition will be much better than he ever imagined and his 6'6 frame and athleticism (the guy still has hops and will use it if you let him) will only be an advantage over players like Sura or Wesley. 

Skip | James | Head (thats a deep rotation)

Christie | Mo Pete | Barry (Still deep)

TMac | Mo Pete | Ryan Bowen

Swift | Howard

Yao | Deke | Swift


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Rafer came out to the media and said he wanted to "quit the team" last season when was benched by Sam Mitchell. He had some issues in TO, but it really looked like it was mostly with Sam, who a few more players also had issues with. Rafer's not the smartest of guys, but he ain't a bad guy either.


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## ApheLion02 (Aug 5, 2005)

TManiAC said:


> Christie is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. Getting him for the LLE would be the second best steal of the offseason for the Rockets (only after our Swift signing for the MLE).
> 
> Laff @ Mo Peterson being the only bright spot. The Rockets would kill for a pure pg like Alston.
> 
> ...



The main reason we're so short of depth now is because of our past decisions in not valuing our draft picks in trades. The draft is important, its probably the only way we will have of changing our roster for a very long time. 

Alston is not just a pure PG. He is a streetballer who doesn't play defense, and can cause both chemistry problems and headaches for JVG. I won't be surprised if he ends up straight in JVG's doghouse. Once there, there's no getting out.

As for you hyping up Doug Christie..your living in the past. The guy has lost about 10 steps, and is no condition to be a defensive stopper / starter. There's a reason Geoff Petrie traded him to rent Mobley for a year. 

If it were up to you, we would trade our future picks for an over the hill guy simply because the latter is more established. That's not how you build a perennially good team. I think Spurs and Detroit have attested to that; you don't go for the quickest fix you can get, and you certainly don't mortgage your future. Perhaps if we actually have draft picks to work with, we can get a better drafting record.


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## Pasha The Great (Apr 9, 2005)

I didn't know it was allowed under the rules to use BBB.net as a launching pad for rumors you made up out of thin air.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

You know, Im arguing for the sake of arguing now. I think Im having a genuinely good time arguing/discussing my trade blurb. I do enjoy the occassional zingers from ppl "I didn't know it was allowed under the rules to use BBB.net as a launching pad for rumors you made up out of thin air" who put much thought to their clever remarks rather than make constructive arguments or even to contribute at all for that matter.

Still.. I think this trade is a good idea. 



> If it were up to you, we would trade our future picks for an over the hill guy simply because the latter is more established.


Thats simply not true. Dont stoop to the level of attempting to put words in my mouth. I never said trade our 1st for Christie, I recommended we sign him for the million-dollar exception. Its either that or use it on a super scrub like Dion Glover.

Trading _our_ over the hill players i.e. Sura and Wesley for Alston and Mo Pete would be the opposite of what youre suggesting. We would be getting younger.



> you don't go for the quickest fix you can get, and you certainly don't mortgage your future.


You make it sound like were trading LeBron James for Shawn Kemp. Were trading two calcified quasi-starters (who not only contributed on the defensive end... but also to our title as being the oldest team in the league) and a low 1st round draft pick in a weak draft for two athletic 28 year olds. 



The core in this deal is Skip... he can flat out play. 
02-03: 7.8 ppg | 4.1 assts | 0.8 stls | 1.83 to | 20.9 mpg
03-04: 10.2 ppg | 4.5 assts | 1.39 stls | 1.56 tos | 31.5 mpg
04-05: 14.2 ppg | 6.4 assts | 1.48 stls | 2.13 tos | 34.0 mpg



> Alston is not just a pure PG. He is a streetballer who doesn't play defense,


Yes he is a pure PG. Yes is a street baller. Yes he can play defense... I dont know what games youre watching.



> Rafer came out to the media and said he wanted to "quit the team" last season


careful. I remember another player who threatened to quit the team too a couple seasons ago and now he's our franchise player. I swore up and down that Tmac was just in a bad situation with a bad coach and a losing team and that he wasnt the one being selfish but was trying to make a statement when he spoke out against the team. Then I looked at Vince Carter and sneered when because I saw him as a quitter and a team cancer. People could say the same about Baron Davis. But whenever a New Orleans fan or a Raptors fan or any other fan called out TMac and called him a quitter, I defended him to the death because I knew he was more than that and it was just a bad situation. 

Tmac has come a long ways from having the worst record in the league and is back in MVP talks. Vince has had a renaissance revival in NJ going nuts in the second half of the season. Baron Davis also led his new team to an impressive push at the end of the season. Rasheed and the Pistons couldnt be a more classic example. I dont think we should be so quick to judge these players for problems associated with losing. Losing is hard for an athlete that only wants to win and get a chance to build a name for himself. 

I think in the right situation, he will pan out to be what he should be. I think even with all the drama, the raps are afraid to let him go. Even with Duhon, they'ld really have to be convinced they werent just getting ripped off after letting go of their TMacs and Vince Carters... after picking horribly in the draft with CharlieV and facing harsh media criticism. I think that while theyre having their fire sale we should take Skip by dangling next years 24th-30th pick.

Mo Pete is just sugar on top. Hes like James Posey but not as long... but hes more durable. He scored 37 points as a starter over Jalen Rose last season.



> Perhaps if we actually have draft picks to work with, we can get a better drafting record


we do have draft picks... we just do horrible things with them..

and when were competitive like we are now and get horrible draft picks, unsurprisingly, we still do horrible things with them and never use them. Eddie Griffin, Michael Dickerson, Jason Collier, Rodrick Rhodes, Boki, Badiane, etc. Cmon now.


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## darkballa (Sep 19, 2003)

is this a joke really?

ill do it we finally get a real point guard in Alston and Mo pete can be our Sf or SG


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## houst-mac (Aug 7, 2004)

I would do this trade right away. We get rid of two veterans and get two good role players. Peterson can do some D and shoot and Rafer is very good pass-first PG that we need. Our line-up would be crazy

Rafer Alston/Mike James/Luther Head
Tracy McGrady/Jon Barry
Morris Peterson/
Stromile Swift/Juwan Howard
Yao Ming/Dikembe Mutombo


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

It would be an excellent trade for us. I can't see why Toronto would do it, though.

Doug Christie is not a great perimeter defender any more. But he's worth a LLE.


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## ApheLion02 (Aug 5, 2005)

I'm in favor of signing Christie if its just for the LLE, but trading both Sura and Wesley for Alston and Peterson would be killer chemistry for us. And chemistry was the only real reason we did as well as we did last year.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Christie, one of the best perimeter defenders in the league? Why did Sacramento and Orlando let him go then? Christie can defend, but I think the days of him being the "best" at anything or gone. As for Rafer Alston, don't forget about his attitude problems. Dude went through all kind of crazy stuff last year.


I always agree with you, but not the last part.

Alston will be a good guy if he is a rocket. Nothing can make him crazy in H-town.

man, this is the 2nd best trade in the rockets history.

Believe me, this trade makes Rockets defeat Spurs!


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Hakeem said:


> It would be an excellent trade for us. I can't see why Toronto would do it, though.
> 
> Doug Christie is not a great perimeter defender any more. But he's worth a LLE.


Yes, Rockets need to throw them another young Rockets .......


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## cloud (Aug 12, 2005)

TManiAC said:


> According to reports from your mom:
> 
> CD is working a trade to send David Wesley, Bobby Sura, and a future 1st rounder (or Spanoulis) to Toronto in exchange for Mo Peterson and Rafer Alston in light of their recent offer to Chris Duhon.
> 
> ...



We need bob sula because of his impassion and reb. we can use james instead him. otherwise Christie is old.


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## smithys1510 (Jul 11, 2005)

lets get gary payton


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## jdiggidy (Jun 21, 2003)

> We need bob sula because of his impassion and reb. we can use james instead him. otherwise Christie is old.


WHO IS BOB SULA and what team does he play for? The "L" and "R" are nowwhere near each other on the keyboard. Just Kidding cloud!!!

Rumor now is Christie to D-Town and lets not forget that this thread was 
originally by someones mom.

I think we can all agree that we need to make a few more changes but, CD is equally content to start this year with the team as it stands now unless he can pull off a 2 for 1 that will benefit the team.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

ApheLion02 said:


> I'm in favor of signing Christie if its just for the LLE, but trading both Sura and Wesley for Alston and Peterson would be killer chemistry for us. And chemistry was the only real reason we did as well as we did last year.


 thats what happens when a team lacks "talent". We're not dealing with Shaq & Kobe here nor are we dealing with the West 3/4 years ago. 

An upgrade is ALWAYS a good thing


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## Eduardo (Jan 27, 2005)

I would do this trade in a heartbeat. We get younger and more size at SG. I do hope it is possilbe..


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Sorry fellas, I had to bring this back!


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Good on ya, Mom.


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