# I'm happy for the fans of Cleveland but.....



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

IMO LeBron James is *STILL* an ego-maniac dick. First it was that ridiculous "THE *DECISION"* where he needed a half hour of air time to announce where he was going.


Then there was that moronic "Not one, not two, not three, not four" etc etc bullshit when (again IMO) he knew all along that he was going to opt out after 4 years.

And Finally "I'm coming home" No LeBron you followed the money, so stop making the great fans of Cleveland think that you did it for *THEM* when you know that (as usual) this was all about *YOU* and the attention you would get.

LeBron you're a great player but...............get over yourself.


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## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

How did he follow the money if he just got a 2 year contract and could've signed a bigger deal in Miami? He went back to CLE when he didn't have to, and for a 2 year contract Miami was a much better basketball situation so I think CLE being "home" has a lot to do with it, you're hating hard.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

FormerPHCrew said:


> How did he follow the money if he just got a 2 year contract and could've signed a bigger deal in Miami? He went back to CLE when he didn't have to, and for a 2 year contract Miami was a much better basketball situation so I think CLE being "home" has a lot to do with it, you're hating hard.



C'mon this is not my first rodeo, the two year thing is for salary cap purposes only because in 2016 the cap goes up to 80M where he'll do the other two years. At least that's what Cleveland management is hoping for.

And hating? no its not that, I failed to mention that I'M NOT a Heat fan.

After running out on you guys four years ago I hope he can help bring a title to the long suffering fans of Cleveland but seriously, I know you're happy he's back but he's no hero. Just another spoiled athlete who like to see his poster & name in lights.


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## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

Rick2583 said:


> C'mon this is not my first rodeo, the two year thing is for salary cap purposes only because in 2016 the cap goes up to 80M where he'll do the other two years. At least that's what Cleveland management is hoping for.
> 
> And hating? no its not that, I failed to mention that I'M NOT a Heat fan.
> 
> After running out on you guys four years ago I hope he can help bring a title to the long suffering fans of Cleveland but seriously, I know you're happy he's back but he's no hero. Just another spoiled athlete who like to see his poster & name in lights.



Im a Spurs fan lol I don't care about LeBron like that but I don't see how he's a spoiled athlete because of all this? He's the best basketball player in the world nobody's really saying he's a hero, but it's a great feel good story period. I don't see how it can be anything other than that, going back to the fans he betrayed 4 years ago even though they have a weaker roster and staff because its his home town and he wants to deliver a ship. He would be getting paid regardless of where he was because hes LeBron James


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Lebron doesn't owe anybody anything. If he feels like playing in Cleveland then he should play in Cleveland. Why don't you criticize James Johnson for signing with Toronto? I'm sure James Johnson could've done a version of "The Decision", just that nobody would be watching it.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

seifer0406 said:


> Lebron doesn't owe anybody anything. If he feels like playing in Cleveland then he should play in Cleveland. Why don't you criticize James Johnson for signing with Toronto? I'm sure James Johnson could've done a version of "The Decision", just that nobody would be watching it.



Who the hell is James Johnson?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> Who the hell is James Johnson?


Exactly. Why is it okay for James Johnson to sign with another team but when Lebron does it he's an asshole for doing it.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Rick2583 said:


> C'mon this is not my first rodeo, the two year thing is for salary cap purposes only because in 2016 the cap goes up to 80M where he'll do the other two years. At least that's what Cleveland management is hoping for.
> 
> And hating? no its not that, I failed to mention that I'M NOT a Heat fan.
> 
> After running out on you guys four years ago I hope he can help bring a title to the long suffering fans of Cleveland but seriously, I know you're happy he's back but he's no hero. Just another spoiled athlete who like to see his poster & name in lights.


Lebron James has been the best basketball player in the world since at least 2009. Despite this, he's never had a max contract. I don't know how you can say that he's selfish for this. He wanted to go back to Cleveland, so he went back.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Moving this to the NBA board, as it was started by a non-Cavs fan to criticize a Cavs player.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

seifer0406 said:


> Lebron doesn't owe anybody anything. If he feels like playing in Cleveland then he should play in Cleveland. Why don't you criticize James Johnson for signing with Toronto? I'm sure James Johnson could've done a version of "The Decision", just that nobody would be watching it.





seifer0406 said:


> Exactly. Why is it okay for James Johnson to sign with another team but when Lebron does it he's an asshole for doing it.





XxIrvingxX said:


> Lebron James has been the best basketball player in the world since at least 2009. Despite this, he's never had a max contract. I don't know how you can say that he's selfish for this. He wanted to go back to Cleveland, so he went back.


It's funny, I was actually thinking about this this morning before even opening this page. There had to have been a delay of at least about a day or two between Lebron deciding he was leaving Miami and the SI article being released (I think the writer said it was about a day from leaving his desk to being published, and he was scared it'd be leaked the whole time). I don't like the argument that anybody owes anyone, because both sides fulfilled their end of the bargain over the four years he was there, but the professional thing to do probably would have been to let Riley know as early as possible so that he wouldn't have been left scrambling to get a late commitment from Luol Deng. Had he known that he actually _would_ have had eight figures of cap space he could have pursued Lowry or Gortat or someone similar. The only thing that would have been hurt doing things that way would be the impact of, and attention paid to, Lebron's explanation of why he's going back.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Bogg said:


> It's funny, I was actually thinking about this this morning before even opening this page. There had to have been a delay of at least about a day or two between Lebron deciding he was leaving Miami and the SI article being released (I think the writer said it was about a day from leaving his desk to being published, and he was scared it'd be leaked the whole time). I don't like the argument that anybody owes anyone, because both sides fulfilled their end of the bargain over the four years he was there, but the professional thing to do probably would have been to let Riley know as early as possible so that he wouldn't have been left scrambling to get a late commitment from Luol Deng. Had he known that he actually _would_ have had eight figures of cap space he could have pursued Lowry or Gortat or someone similar. The only thing that would have been hurt doing things that way would be the impact of, and attention paid to, Lebron's explanation of why he's going back.


Well first of all you are assuming that Lebron came to a decision long before he informed the Miami Heat. Since nobody has the inside track into Lebron's mind it's hard to just assume that he did something and then criticize him for it. Secondly as a GM it's Riley's job to handle something like this. When Lebron signed that contract 4 years ago with an opt out clause him leaving after 4 years was a likely scenario. Riley had years to formulate a plan so I don't see any excuse for him to scramble (if he is actually scrambling).

Lastly it's hard to say that not being able to sign Lowry/Gortat is necessarily a bad thing. Honestly if I'm Pat Riley I would've just tanked it the next couple of years instead of trying to build a team around Chris Bosh.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

seifer0406 said:


> Well first of all you are assuming that Lebron came to a decision long before he informed the Miami Heat. Since nobody has the inside track into Lebron's mind it's hard to just assume that he did something and then criticize him for it. Secondly as a GM it's Riley's job to handle something like this. When Lebron signed that contract 4 years ago with an opt out clause him leaving after 4 years was a likely scenario. Riley had years to formulate a plan so I don't see any excuse for him to scramble (if he is actually scrambling).
> 
> Lastly it's hard to say that not being able to sign Lowry/Gortat is necessarily a bad thing. Honestly if I'm Pat Riley I would've just tanked it the next couple of years instead of trying to build a team around Chris Bosh.


Eh, I'm not really assuming anything. From the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/how-sports-illustrated-landed-the-lebron-james-im-coming-home-scoop/2014/07/11/a1f18202-093a-11e4-a0dd-f2b22a257353_story.html



> Last Saturday, Jenkins e-mailed his editors and said that the story they’d discussed months earlier was a possibility. Jenkins was so fearful of tipping his hand that he didn’t mention James by name in his e-mail, according to Stone.
> 
> On Wednesday, Jenkins flew to Las Vegas, where James was running a summer basketball camp, but still didn’t have a confirmed interview. James agreed to talk to him on Thursday. That’s when James disclosed that he would leave Miami for Cleveland, the team he left four years ago when he disclosed his choice on a nationally televised ESPN special (“The Decision”), saying that he was “taking my talents to South Beach.”
> 
> To ensure the news didn’t leak, Jenkins said nothing about the nature of his story until sending it to his editors Friday morning. The story’s arrival at SI’s New York offices touched off some special handling: A few select staffers were quietly called in — about a half-dozen in all — to edit, illustrate and lay out the piece. The story, which carried James’s and Jenkins’s joint byline, was ready for publication in about two hours, Stone said.


At a very minimum, James made up his mind on Thursday, and may have known as early as the weekend prior, when his camp contacted a writer to have him fly out to Las Vegas. If his #1 priority wasn't an impact statement, he could have at least called the Miami front office and told them personally when he knew. I'm not saying he owed it to anyone, just that it would have been the classy thing to do after four good years.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Bogg said:


> Eh, I'm not really assuming anything. From the Washington Post:
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/how-sports-illustrated-landed-the-lebron-james-im-coming-home-scoop/2014/07/11/a1f18202-093a-11e4-a0dd-f2b22a257353_story.html
> 
> ...


The rest of your logic is still incredibly faulty though. You're assuming that letting Riley know a few days early would've changed anything when in fact the possibility of Lebron leaving was known long before it happened. The probability of it only increased when Heat 1)Lost convincingly in the finals 2)Did not receive any sign from Lebron that he would be staying. I mean what if Lebron told everyone that he's going to leave right after Miami lost to San Antonio? That would've given Riley a ton of *more* time to prepare. Would that be "classy" then? I highly doubt it. In fact, that would actually be the opposite of classy. When Lebron tore off his Cleveland jersey after the Cavs lost in the ECF(?) he got flack for being all about Lebron. That was only a sign of him leaving, imagine if he actually came out and said it. It's a no win situation with fans that see things the way you do.

The bottom line is Lebron is free to do what he wants. Miami should just be grateful that they got 2 championships from the king.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I mean now that I think of it, this is incredibly stupid. What if Lebron knew that he wanted to go back home to Cleveland during the season. So according to you, that thought would've been "un-classy" since he's not being loyal to the team that he's playing with. Also had Lebron made such thoughts public, it would've jeopardized the team because team chemistry and the media ruckus would've been quite negative. So in order to rectify such un-classyness, he should pretend that he haven't made up his mind until the season is over. But because it's still "un-classy" to declare I'm leaving right after the team lost, he should again pretend to be undecided. However do not wait too long as the window of "Classyness" is a delicate one. If you wait a few days extra, that would've been unclassy to some fans. There is a perfect time to break the news so that he'll be classy, any earlier or later would mean that all respect is lost from dumb fans everywhere.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Bogg said:


> Eh, I'm not really assuming anything. From the Washington Post:
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/how-sports-illustrated-landed-the-lebron-james-im-coming-home-scoop/2014/07/11/a1f18202-093a-11e4-a0dd-f2b22a257353_story.html
> 
> ...



And there lies the problem, you're putting LeBron & Classy in the same sentence. Not a possible combination. Hell the Cleveland fans themselves found this out 4 years ago. Now all of a sudden the guy could walk on water.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Let it go


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> Let it go




Apparently the truth hit a nerve. So for you officer, consider it gone.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

whatever dude, it's your thrombosis


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> whatever dude, it's your thrombosis



What happened to letting it go sparky?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I really have no horse in the race but at this point you're coming off a little histrionic - just advice


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

seifer0406 said:


> I mean now that I think of it, this is incredibly stupid. What if Lebron knew that he wanted to go back home to Cleveland during the season. So according to you, that thought would've been "un-classy" since he's not being loyal to the team that he's playing with. Also had Lebron made such thoughts public, it would've jeopardized the team because team chemistry and the media ruckus would've been quite negative. So in order to rectify such un-classyness, he should pretend that he haven't made up his mind until the season is over. But because it's still "un-classy" to declare I'm leaving right after the team lost, he should again pretend to be undecided. However do not wait too long as the window of "Classyness" is a delicate one. If you wait a few days extra, that would've been unclassy to some fans. There is a perfect time to break the news so that he'll be classy, any earlier or later would mean that all respect is lost from dumb fans everywhere.


So what your saying is that, because there are grossly inappropriate ways that he _could_ have handled things, there's no more appropriate way to go about things than he could have? Look, I'll put it this way - I have a good relationship with my boss. We'll occasionally catch a beer at the end of the day, he gives me whatever flexibility I need at work, and he pulled some strings to get me into a better grad school than I probably would have otherwise. I'll even wind up at his house for dinner once every couple months. Now, that doesn't mean I'm going to work for him forever, but if and when I do take another job I'll either let him know in person or call him directly if he's on vacation or something, rather than keeping quiet until I give HR my two-week notice and letting them notify him via email. 

Now, by all accounts, it doesn't sound like Pat Riley was told that Lebron was leaving in that in-person meeting Thursday. If Lebron knew beforehand that there was no way he was going back to Miami, Riley at least deserved an in-person thank you for the last several years and a little bit of a heads up on the coming news, and if he truly didn't make up his mind until after that sit-down (which doesn't seem likely, since his camp was arraigning for the journalist to fly out the weekend prior), he should have given Riley a call to let him know. It doesn't mean that Lebron's a terrible person or anything, and what he wants to do is his choice, but the way he announced _was_ a publicity stunt, just better-handled than the last one.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> I really have no horse in the race but at this point you're coming off a little histrionic - just advice



Holy crap easy there professor, LOL I didn't know this thread was going to take such a comedic turn. Histrionic, Thrombosis, what did you do swallow a dictionary. You must be a real thrill at parties.

Okay kid I'll let it.

And Bogg, you're thread was right on target.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Rick2583 said:


> Holy crap easy there professor, LOL I didn't know this thread was going to take such a comedic turn. Histrionic, Thrombosis, what did you do swallow a dictionary. You must be a real thrill at parties.
> 
> Okay kid I'll let it.


yeah, being smart and knowing how to use words and stuff, that's uncool - good attitude - enjoy flipping burgers your whole life, kid


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> yeah, being smart and knowing how to use words and stuff, that's uncool - good attitude - enjoy flipping burgers your whole life, kid



Never said it was uncool just pointing out that you don't have to come off sounding like some sanctimonious pompous ass to make a point.

And btw: KID! I've been a fan of this game for over 50 years. Now try & stay on topic & save your unimpressive vocabulary for your frat brothers.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Let's everyone take it easy so we don't have anyone taking a mandatory vacation from the site.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

it's cool man, real cool


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> it's cool man, real cool



It's all good Bogg.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Bogg said:


> It's funny, I was actually thinking about this this morning before even opening this page. There had to have been a delay of at least about a day or two between Lebron deciding he was leaving Miami and the SI article being released (I think the writer said it was about a day from leaving his desk to being published, and he was scared it'd be leaked the whole time). I don't like the argument that anybody owes anyone, because both sides fulfilled their end of the bargain over the four years he was there, but the professional thing to do probably would have been to let Riley know as early as possible so that he wouldn't have been left scrambling to get a late commitment from Luol Deng. Had he known that he actually _would_ have had eight figures of cap space he could have pursued Lowry or Gortat or someone similar. The only thing that would have been hurt doing things that way would be the impact of, and attention paid to, Lebron's explanation of why he's going back.


Is it really "unclassy" to not aid in making your competitor better?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> I mean now that I think of it, this is incredibly stupid. What if Lebron knew that he wanted to go back home to Cleveland during the season. So according to you, that thought would've been "un-classy" since he's not being loyal to the team that he's playing with. Also had Lebron made such thoughts public, it would've jeopardized the team because team chemistry and the media ruckus would've been quite negative. So in order to rectify such un-classyness, he should pretend that he haven't made up his mind until the season is over. But because it's still "un-classy" to declare I'm leaving right after the team lost, he should again pretend to be undecided. However do not wait too long as the window of "Classyness" is a delicate one. If you wait a few days extra, that would've been unclassy to some fans. There is a perfect time to break the news so that he'll be classy, any earlier or later would mean that all respect is lost from dumb fans everywhere.


Its clear as day that what Bogg was saying is if Lebron let Miami know earlier, they could have made a run at Lowry, Gortat, made a push for Melo, etc. Because Lebron left them waiting like dopes those options were gone once the news hit that Lebron was going back to Cleveland.

I mean, its extremely clear what he was saying. Whats not clear is, what the **** are you even rambling on about?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Is it really "unclassy" to not aid in making your competitor better?


Yes?

If I leave my current employer, I'm not going to try to burn the place down on the way out to help whomever I'm going to work for next.

I mean, is your opinion really that he should try to hinder Miami from signing guys on his way out the door to try and keep them a weaker team?

That's ****ing asinine.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Jamel Irief said:


> Is it really "unclassy" to not aid in making your competitor better?


Well, I don't think I actually used the term classy, but what I'm writing is largely in response to the idea that announcing his intention this way is the polar opposite to his "Decision" special four years ago and evidence that he's a fantastic sportsman for doing so. If his intention was simply to better-position Cleveland by waiting until most of the dominoes had fallen before Miami could act in replacing him then that's fine, but I don't see why anyone should fawn over him for it. He made a headline grab. It's his right to do so, but there's no reason to call it something else.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

LeBron didn't actually hinder Miami from talking with or signing anyone at any time. Miami made that choice to wait because LeBron is the best player on the market.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Sir Patchwork said:


> LeBron didn't actually hinder Miami from talking with or signing anyone at any time. Miami made that choice to wait because LeBron is the best player on the market.



Yes he did hinder the Heat because of his grand standing to drag things out. Did this obvious point really need explaining?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> LeBron didn't actually hinder Miami from talking with or signing anyone at any time. Miami made that choice to wait because LeBron is the best player on the market.


Jesus....

"Lebron, I'm sorry, but we're going to go a different way. We're offering your money up to Gortat and Lowry because you haven't given us a definitive answer yet."


I probably defend James more than anyone these days, but I feel like I'm on bizzaro world today. 

Miami is at fault for missing out on the free agents who signed early?


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Rick2583 said:


> Yes he did hinder the Heat because of his grand standing to drag things out. Did this obvious point really need explaining?



Nothing you have said in this thread has made any sense to me, no offense. It seems like you're just really reaching for a reason to hate on LeBron.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

At the point of opting out, you don't belong to any team. Hence being a free agent. The Heat don't have any stake on LeBron more than any other team. LeBron didn't hinder the Heat from signing someone any more than he hindered the Suns, or Mavericks, or Rockets, or Bulls from signing someone. 

The Heat felt like they had a good chance of re-signing him, so they waited. That was a decision they made based on their own risk analysis. You can't condemn LeBron for being in such demand that teams would rather wait on his decision than pursue inferior free agents.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

LeBron made the decision to go to Miami for him, he made the decision to go back to Cleveland for everybody that he cares about. He needed those rings to solidify himself as a great, he got over what appeared to be a massive hurdle at the time (the ridiculousness about him not being clutch, or shrinking in big moments), and honestly it looked like he had fun living that life. 

Going back to Cleveland is still about him to an extent (since any move where you dictate your professional fate is about you, being that it's YOUR professional fate and all), but it's more than just that. He did it for his family who he wants to raise in that area, he did it for his friends and extended family who all are there, he did it for the downtown area that lost money when he left, he did it for the betterment of an entire region. 

Having LeBron on your team increases it's value and the value of everything surrounding it by hundreds of millions of dollars, how can you blame him for wanting to give that to the place and people he cares the most about? 

As far as how he announced this, or even how he announced The Decision, he really can't win. He's the biggest news story out there, no matter if he approached it like Tim Duncan or JR Smith, EVERYBODY is infatuated with wanting to know what he is going to do.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> At the point of opting out, you don't belong to any team. Hence being a free agent. The Heat don't have any stake on LeBron more than any other team. LeBron didn't hinder the Heat from signing someone any more than he hindered the Suns, or Mavericks, or Rockets, or Bulls from signing someone.
> 
> The Heat felt like they had a good chance of re-signing him, so they waited. That was a decision they made based on their own risk analysis. You can't condemn LeBron for being in such demand that teams would rather wait on his decision than pursue inferior free agents.


No ones condemning him for that. What was brought up is that its fairly unprofessional (and highly egotistical) to wait on telling your former employer you're leaving until you can make a dramatic letter drafted by your PR team.

Most people, myself and yourself probably included, thought Lebron going back to Miami was all but a certainty. So again, if your contention is that its Miami's fault for not making offers to Lowry and Gortat and telling Lebron they weren't interested in waiting, then I find that to be ridiculous.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

BlakeJesus said:


> LeBron made the decision to go to Miami for him, he made the decision to go back to Cleveland for everybody that he cares about. He needed those rings to solidify himself as a great, he got over what appeared to be a massive hurdle at the time (the ridiculousness about him not being clutch, or shrinking in big moments), and honestly it looked like he had fun living that life.
> 
> Going back to Cleveland is still about him to an extent (since any move where you dictate your professional fate is about you, being that it's YOUR professional fate and all), but it's more than just that. He did it for his family who he wants to raise in that area, he did it for his friends and extended family who all are there, he did it for the downtown area that lost money when he left, he did it for the betterment of an entire region.
> 
> ...


I think most people liked how he went about it this time. I know I did. 

The only thing I've been arguing against is the idea that it wasn't a little dickish to not just tell Riley once he knew. Its not like it would have hurt Lebron any.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Basel said:


> Nothing you have said in this thread has made any sense to me, no offense. It seems like you're just really reaching for a reason to hate on LeBron.




No offense taken & no I'm not hating on LeBron. I think he's the best player in the game today, I'm just not a big fan of the way he does things.

Look Bogg laid it out pretty good in an earlier post but let me just add to what he posted, I'm the top lawyer in a firm & I'm thinking of retiring or just moving on & my bosses know this. So basically it's "We know you might be leaving but can you at least give us a heads up as soon as you know so we could try & fill your position". Call it loyalty, friendship or just plain good old professionalism. I mean seriously anyone who thinks LeBron just made this decision a few days ago needs a reality check.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Rick2583 said:


> No offense taken & no I'm not hating on LeBron. I think he's the best player in the game today, I'm just not a big fan of the way he does things.
> 
> 
> 
> Look Bogg laid it out pretty good in an earlier post but let me just add to what he posted, I'm the top lawyer in a firm & I'm thinking of retiring or just moving on & my bosses know this. So basically it's "We know you might be leaving but can you at least give us a heads up as soon as you know so we could try & fill your position". Call it loyalty, friendship or just plain good old professionalism. I mean seriously anyone who thinks LeBron just made this decision a few days ago needs a reality check.



Even if he had already made the decision, he owes it to the Heat organization to meet with them and hear them out. He did just that and a couple days later, he announced he's going back to Cleveland. No harm, no foul. He did nothing wrong this time around. You absolutely cannot blame him for anything the Heat have or haven't done.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

another way of looking at this

as bidders for Lebron's continuing employment what did the Heat bring to the table? What was their offer and what was the game plan they put forth to make Lebron want to stay? do we even know? 

was it: "Ok Lebron you take even less money to carry the team while Dwyane limps around on one leg and Chris continues to hone his corner 3 and maybe we can add Kyle Lowry"

because :thinking2:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> another way of looking at this
> 
> as bidders for Lebron's continuing employment what did the Heat bring to the table? What was their offer and what was the game plan they put forth to make Lebron want to stay? do we even know?
> 
> ...


That team _with_ Lowry? Favorites to win the title in my opinion. The same team as last year with McRoberts and Granger? I wouldn't go back either. Lebron is the only reason they made the Finals last year in the first place. 

He made the right choice in going to Cleveland. If he stayed in Miami Wade would have basically screwed him out of building a better team by sticking around and collecting checks.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

R-Star said:


> No ones condemning him for that. What was brought up is that its fairly unprofessional (and highly egotistical) to wait on telling your former employer you're leaving until you can make a dramatic letter drafted by your PR team.
> 
> Most people, myself and yourself probably included, thought Lebron going back to Miami was all but a certainty. So again, if your contention is that its Miami's fault for not making offers to Lowry and Gortat and telling Lebron they weren't interested in waiting, then I find that to be ridiculous.


I agree that it's respectable to inform any team he has eliminated from contention as soon as he knows. I think he did that reasonably timely. This whole thing happened in a span of a couple of days, between the time he narrowed it down to Miami and Cleveland, and time it was announced. This wasn't a process that took 2 weeks. And there are a lot of things we don't know, like if he actually did inform Riley, or how long he knew where he was going before it was announced. 

What we do know is that all of this happened within a couple of days, which gave Miami time to re-sign Bosh, pursue Deng and sign him, and we'll probably see the Wade deal soon. 

I think Miami made out fairly well considering they had put all of their eggs in the LeBron basket and lost out.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

R-Star said:


> That team _with_ Lowry? Favorites to win the title in my opinion. The same team as last year with McRoberts and Granger? I wouldn't go back either. Lebron is the only reason they made the Finals last year in the first place.
> 
> He made the right choice in going to Cleveland. If he stayed in Miami Wade would have basically screwed him out of building a better team by sticking around and collecting checks.


no doubt and do you know who should have known this best? the great basketball minds of the Miami Heat - when you make a play on the one guy you wait and you pray but you have to read the tea leaves - teams waited on Melo and lost chances on other guys too where's the boo hoo hoo?


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

remind me, who did the Heat lose out on by waiting? Lowry and who? Gortat maybe (both of whom resigned with their original teams anyway)? what other real difference makers were off the market before Lebron made his call?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> no doubt and do you know who should have known this best? the great basketball minds of the Miami Heat - when you make a play on the one guy you wait and you pray but you have to read the tea leaves - teams waited on Melo and lost chances on other guys too where's the boo hoo hoo?


Trying to swing for Melo isn't the same as Miami thinking Lebron would re-sign.

That being said I don't really mind how Lebron went about this, as I already stated.

I think what really did Miami in here is Wade. Everyone knows he's not going to be even close to worth max, nor is he going to take a huge paycut.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

if Melo had left would people be crying like little bitches or would they be going "you know what, makes perfect sense"


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

e-monk said:


> if Melo had left would people be crying like little bitches or would they be going "you know what, makes perfect sense"


Who's saying that Lebron was wrong for leaving Miami?


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

If he's not wrong (and he's not) should the great basketball minds of the Miami Heat not have seen the writing on the wall? did they really think adding McBob and whatever is left of Danny Granger was a difference maker?


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I agree that it's respectable to inform any team he has eliminated from contention as soon as he knows. I think he did that reasonably timely. This whole thing happened in a span of a couple of days, between the time he narrowed it down to Miami and Cleveland, and time it was announced. This wasn't a process that took 2 weeks. And there are a lot of things we don't know, like if he actually did inform Riley, or how long he knew where he was going before it was announced.
> 
> What we do know is that all of this happened within a couple of days, which gave Miami time to re-sign Bosh, pursue Deng and sign him, and we'll probably see the Wade deal soon.
> 
> I think Miami made out fairly well considering they had put all of their eggs in the LeBron basket and lost out.



With all due respect Patch I & I've no doubt many others believe that LeBron knew what he was going to do *WEEKS *ago. Hell even on sports center this morning when they aired an interview from 2012 he was asked about a possible return to Cleveland he all but winked at the camera when he said, it could be, anything is possible. something to that effect. Again, you seriously can't believe that this was a last minute decision.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

actually it could totally have been a difficult decision that he weighed until the last minute, but anyway, so what? what's your beef?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> remind me, who did the Heat lose out on by waiting? Lowry and who? Gortat maybe (both of whom resigned with their original teams anyway)? what other real difference makers were off the market before Lebron made his call?


None. Just those two.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> if Melo had left would people be crying like little bitches or would they be going "you know what, makes perfect sense"


Uhh, isn't everyone other than this Rick guy saying "you know what, makes perfect sense." ?


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

R-Star said:


> None. Just those two.


(I think you're forgetting Jodie Meeks) and they weren't going to fill a Lebron void ever either


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

R-Star said:


> Uhh, isn't everyone other than this Rick guy saying "you know what, makes perfect sense." ?


yep


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

We didn't miss out on any free agents so no harm no foul. He obviously knew a while before he put it out, but it didn't hurt us and he has the right to announce it whenever he wants.

The thing that bugs me is that his move is being portrayed as a "homecoming" and some altruistic quest to get Cleveland their first title in 50 years. You're an idiot if you believe that. He knows that he only has to win one title in Cleveland to be celebrated by people and in Miami he would be criticized with anything short of seven. He knows that Kyrie and Wiggins have over a decade of ball left in them and the Cavs have a ton of assets. I accept his decision, moving forward, but I don't respect it because he's running away from a challenge. 

If you caught Riley's press conference after the season, he talked about how the Lakers and the Bulls and the Celtics didn't quit when it got a little difficult. That sums up how I feel. LeBron is simply choosing the team with the most assets and can supply him with the most help in his mind. Maybe 1% of him is choosing Cleveland for "home" reasons. Again, I accept his decision. But don't sell me on him being a hero for jumping at the chance to play with a bunch of #1 picks.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> If he's not wrong (and he's not) should the great basketball minds of the Miami Heat not have seen the writing on the wall? did they really think adding McBob and whatever is left of Danny Granger was a difference maker?


As I said, their hands were basically tied. They either drop Wade and try to pick up Melo and make themselves and Bron look like scumbags in the process, or they try to add what little pieces they can with no money. 

The Big 3 way of building a team worked perfectly....... right until Wade dropped off. Now hes seen as an anchor, not a superstar. 

Again though I'll ask, are you arguing that Miami should have come out and said they were walking away from Lebron and tried to sign Lowry and Gortat? I've asked multiple times and when I do you guys clam up. Because if you're saying "They should have seen the writing on the wall" then isn't that exactly what you're arguing?


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Funny how now Heat fans can't respect LeBron for running away from a challenge when he did that exact thing 4 years ago and he was their hero


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ATLien said:


> Funny how now Heat fans can't respect LeBron for running away from a challenge when he did that exact thing 4 years ago and he was their hero


That's actually a pretty fair comment. He wasn't winning in Cleveland so he went and headed up a superteam. That's the epitome of taking an easier situation.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

ATLien said:


> Funny how now Heat fans can't respect LeBron for running away from a challenge when he did that exact thing 4 years ago and he was their hero


That wasn't dressed up as anything other than it was: him going to a team to specifically win championships. He was also supposedly challenging the greatest teams of all time, records, and going to win 8 championships. This move is disingenuously being portrayed as a homecoming. He's running from Miami where he needs to win seven to Cleveland where he needs to win one with enough assets to trade for any player.

I just want people to say it like it is: he's leaving Miami because Wade is old and the roster is low on assets. He's going to Cleveland to play with Wiggins and Kyrie. I don't want to hear the home bullshit and hero nonsense.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Until I actually see some evidence that supports the matter, people need to stop saying "Lebron knew where he wanted to go way before he made his decision". Enough already, you guys have no idea how stupid you sound when you say this. I don't know when he made up his mind, but this being something he decided on at the last minute makes a lot more sense than this being something he decided on a while ago and waited until now to announce. If this were something that happened in the past, you guys would have good reasoning for this but it didn't. The decision last year? That was something he wasn't fully decided on until the day before the show aired. And all the things that have happened now pretty much disprove the fact that he wanted to leave Cleveland long before his time was up as he clearly didn't want to actually leave in the first place.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

R-Star said:


> I probably defend James more than anyone these days, but I feel like I'm on bizzaro world today.


It truly is a weird thread that results in me, you, and Adam on the exact same page.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

R-Star said:


> Again though I'll ask, are you arguing that Miami should have come out and said they were walking away from Lebron and tried to sign Lowry and Gortat? I've asked multiple times and when I do you guys clam up. Because if you're saying "They should have seen the writing on the wall" then isn't that exactly what you're arguing?


not at all - Miami had no choice but to wait on Lebron - but Lebron did nothing wrong either in leaving or his timing of it - I think it's ridiculous to attack him personally in the matter on either count


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Bogg said:


> It truly is a weird thread that results in me, you, and Adam on the exact same page.


Its all an act. I'm waiting until later in the day to drunkenly stab you both in the back...


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Adam said:


> That wasn't dressed up as anything other than it was: him going to a team to specifically win championships. He was also supposedly challenging the greatest teams of all time, records, and going to win 8 championships. This move is disingenuously being portrayed as a homecoming. He's running from Miami where he needs to win seven to Cleveland where he needs to win one with enough assets to trade for any player.
> 
> I just want people to say it like it is: he's leaving Miami because Wade is old and the roster is low on assets. He's going to Cleveland to play with Wiggins and Kyrie. I don't want to hear the home bullshit and hero nonsense.


here's what I will say about the "home bullshit" 

a) the Cavs + Lebron are no better than and possibly worse than a retooled Heat roster + Lebron 

b) no one realistically expected Lebron to win 7 titles with the Heat, I seriously doubt that he sweats that

and c) it could only be Cleveland - if he had gone anywhere else the internet/media shit-storm would be unbelievable


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

R-Star said:


> Its all an act. I'm waiting until later in the day to drunkenly stab you both in the back...



I would be disappointed with any other result.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> here's what I will say about the "home bullshit"
> 
> a) the Cavs + Lebron are no better than and possibly worse than a retooled Heat roster + Lebron
> 
> ...


It completely blows my mind that people are acting like Cleveland is not immediately a top 3 team now with Lebron. 

There is no way Miami's roster this year with Lebron is better than Cleveland right now. They're a sexy team. 

What is the argument for Miami being good? Am I going to have to hear "bounce back year" again with Wade? Because hes done man. At the very best you can hope for his decline to be a gradual one, but he isn't getting better. The guy isn't a good shooter and plays close to the rim. Hes not a star anymore.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

R-Star said:


> It completely blows my mind that people are acting like Cleveland is not immediately a top 3 team now with Lebron.


It's Lebron and a bunch of unproven kids - big future? sure, but this year even Lebron is preaching patience

the nice thing is we'll see - if this year's Cavs win as many or more games as last year's Heat and get to the finals I guess youre right


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

R-Star said:


> What is the argument for Miami being good? Am I going to have to hear "bounce back year" again with Wade? Because hes done man. At the very best you can hope for his decline to be a gradual one, but he isn't getting better. The guy isn't a good shooter and plays close to the rim. Hes not a star anymore.


It's crazy that people expect Miami to win 50 games without LeBron. They won 54 last year and replaced the best player in the world with Luol Deng & McRoberts


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> It's Lebron and a bunch of unproven kids - big future? sure, but this year even Lebron is preaching patience
> 
> the nice thing is we'll see - if this year's Cavs win as many or more games as last year's Heat and get to the finals I guess youre right


I think they will personally. But yea, guess this is a wait and see debate. 

The thing is there isn't going to be regular #1 overall hype on Wiggins. Hes walking in to a team where hes 3rd fiddle at best and Lebron will be getting most of the spot light. Bennett is now an afterthought and everything his does will just be gravy. The next time Kyrie tries to hero ball Lebron will dropkick him in the throat. 

I'm pretty excited to watch these guys.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

R-Star said:


> I think they will personally. But yea, guess this is a wait and see debate.
> 
> The thing is there isn't going to be regular #1 overall hype on Wiggins. Hes walking in to a team where hes 3rd fiddle at best and Lebron will be getting most of the spot light. Bennett is now an afterthought and everything his does will just be gravy. The next time Kyrie tries to hero ball Lebron will dropkick him in the throat.
> 
> I'm pretty excited to watch these guys.


If this team stays exactly the same as currently constituted, they have some very nice pieces. Kyrie/Wiggins/Lebron/Thompson/Varejao should be a pretty damned good defensive team. With Waiters/Bennett, Mike Miller, and possibly Ray Allen... they also have the makings of a nice bench mob. I'm also excited for that possibility. I actually don't know if I would rather see them get KLove or not.

I actually still think I'd rather see KLove on the Warriors.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

ATLien said:


> It's crazy that people expect Miami to win 50 games without LeBron. They won 54 last year and replaced the best player in the world with Luol Deng & McRoberts


Want to make a bet?


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

RollWithEm said:


> If this team stays exactly the same as currently constituted, they have some very nice pieces. Kyrie/Wiggins/Lebron/Thompson/Varejao should be a pretty damned good defensive team. With Waiters/Bennett, Mike Miller, and possibly Ray Allen... they also have the makings of a nice bench mob. I'm also excited for that possibility. I actually don't know if I would rather see them get KLove or not.
> 
> *I actually still think I'd rather see KLove on the Warriors.*




For balance purposes alone so would I. I'd rather see a league with 8-10 teams having a stong chance then 3-4 teams stocking up on talent. Like I said, makes for a better balance.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Adam said:


> Want to make a bet?


:yep:


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

ATLien said:


> :yep:


You're wearing this avatar for three months if I win:


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Adam said:


> You're wearing this avatar for three months if I win:


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

^That's dirty. Game on brother.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I'm cool with LeBron going home. He's just trying to win as much as possible and I respect that. However, he goes about these things in just about the douchiest way possible (the decision, homecoming) but, I don't really care where a grown ass man decides to play basketball for a living. Good luck in Cleveland as far as I'm concerned.

The Heat will still make the playoffs simply because they play in the JV league.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

I like this Rick kid.

One thing is certain: it's about f****** time the East becomes interesting. You've got Lebron jumping ship (again) to the Cavs, Rose should be healthy and playing with Pau Gasol, Miami still has Wade and Bosh... Should be a competitive season...

Indiana? **** Indiana.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

The East didn't really get much better, it is just the top two teams look less dangerous than they did last year. More competitive, but not better.


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

PauloCatarino said:


> I like this Rick kid.
> 
> One thing is certain: it's about f****** time the East becomes interesting. You've got Lebron jumping ship (again) to the Cavs, Rose should be healthy and playing with Pau Gasol, Miami still has Wade and Bosh... Should be a competitive season...
> 
> Indiana? **** Indiana.


LOL.

The East is still the JV conference. They have absolutely no shot at winning the Finals this season.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Pablo5 said:


> LOL.
> 
> The East is still the JV conference. They have absolutely no shot at winning the Finals this season.



They do if the Cavs get Love. Which I'm hoping doesn't happen.


And BTW: Paul this Rick kid just turned 60 so thanks for the compliment.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Rick2583 said:


> With all due respect Patch I & I've no doubt many others believe that LeBron knew what he was going to do *WEEKS *ago. Hell even on sports center this morning when they aired an interview from 2012 he was asked about a possible return to Cleveland he all but winked at the camera when he said, it could be, anything is possible. something to that effect. Again, you seriously can't believe that this was a last minute decision.


There is no evidence that he knew all along. Either way, it's irrelevant. He opted out immediately and became a free agent, which is when he stopped owing Miami his services. He didn't owe Miami a quick decision (whether he knew all long or not) like he didn't owe Phoenix or Houston a quick decision. Any team that chose to hamstring themselves while waiting for his decision was their own doing. Regardless, Miami made out fine.


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

Sir Patchwork said:


> There is no evidence that he knew all along. Either way, it's irrelevant. He opted out immediately and became a free agent, which is when he stopped owing Miami his services. He didn't owe Miami a quick decision (whether he knew all long or not) like he didn't owe Phoenix or Houston a quick decision. Any team that chose to hamstring themselves while waiting for his decision was their own doing. Regardless, Miami made out fine.


Hey he's a business man. He enjoys the spotlight, but I have no doubt that he knew exactly what he wanted to do. I respect his decision and hope he does well in Cleveland.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Worse case he opts out again when the cap goes up to 80M and he signs with the first team that offers him 30M.

For now though yes I hope he does well in Cleveland & helps the city to there first title in many many years.


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

Rick2583 said:


> Worse case he opts out again when the cap goes up to 80M and he signs with the first team that offers him 30M.
> 
> *For now though yes I hope he does well in Cleveland & helps the city to there first title in many many years*.


Sad part is that the current and previous owner didn't deserve that type of reward while running the Cav's into the graveyard.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Pablo5 said:


> LOL.
> 
> The East is still the JV conference. They have absolutely no shot at winning the Finals this season.


Just like Lebron 100% wasn't going to Cleveland, and Wiggins was 100% going to be traded for Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving is the leagues biggest chucker, and Amare Stoudemire doesn't have a mid range game, and...... 


You really need to learn to keep your mouth shut.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Bogg said:


> So what your saying is that, because there are grossly inappropriate ways that he _could_ have handled things, there's no more appropriate way to go about things than he could have? Look, I'll put it this way - I have a good relationship with my boss. We'll occasionally catch a beer at the end of the day, he gives me whatever flexibility I need at work, and he pulled some strings to get me into a better grad school than I probably would have otherwise. I'll even wind up at his house for dinner once every couple months. Now, that doesn't mean I'm going to work for him forever, but if and when I do take another job I'll either let him know in person or call him directly if he's on vacation or something, rather than keeping quiet until I give HR my two-week notice and letting them notify him via email.


I really don't see how your analogy works in this case. If your job is on a contract to contract basis and your contract is up, it is not remotely similar to you quitting your job and not giving your boss enough notice.

What I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to criticize Lebron for "Classyness" because your criteria for being classy is so vague that no matter what ended up happening chances are Lebron wouldn't be classy in the eyes of some. This is just a case of "Haters gonna hate."

Just because Lebron told somebody that he's leaving a few days before telling Miami doens't necessarily mean that he came to that conclusion at that particular time. If you really want to judge whether he's classy, he would've been more classy had he let Miami know before the draft. Miami drafted Shabazz Napier because of Lebron's influence, wouldn't it be more classy of Lebron to not influence Miami if he's not staying in Miami? But then had Lebron spoke too early (like right after they lost the finals), it would've been unclassy to a lot of people. All I am trying to say is that classyness is just a stupid way of judging this situation.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Adam said:


> We didn't miss out on any free agents so no harm no foul. He obviously knew a while before he put it out, but it didn't hurt us and he has the right to announce it whenever he wants.
> 
> The thing that bugs me is that his move is being portrayed as a "homecoming" and some altruistic quest to get Cleveland their first title in 50 years. You're an idiot if you believe that. He knows that he only has to win one title in Cleveland to be celebrated by people and in Miami he would be criticized with anything short of seven. He knows that Kyrie and Wiggins have over a decade of ball left in them and the Cavs have a ton of assets. I accept his decision, moving forward, but I don't respect it because he's running away from a challenge.
> 
> If you caught Riley's press conference after the season, he talked about how the Lakers and the Bulls and the Celtics didn't quit when it got a little difficult. That sums up how I feel. LeBron is simply choosing the team with the most assets and can supply him with the most help in his mind. Maybe 1% of him is choosing Cleveland for "home" reasons. Again, I accept his decision. But don't sell me on him being a hero for jumping at the chance to play with a bunch of #1 picks.


Man you are a bitter Heat fan and aren't hiding it well. You clearly don't have a damn clue about LeBron at all, which is of no surprise because you're a Heat fan. LeBron lives and breathes Akron, Ohio and that NEVER changed, even when he left. LeBron never wanted to leave in the first place, do you know how hard he tried to get people to come to Cleveland to play with him? Do some research man, LeBron's presence in Ohio is much bigger than basketball itself. You clearly don't realize how much LeBron means to Northeast Ohio. Him coming home is not bullshit at all, he had better options than Cleveland from a basketball standpoint (Houston and Phoenix for example), but like he said, if he ever left Miami it would only be to go back to Cleveland.

And it's laughable that you think LeBron would get criticized if he won anything short of 7 titles. He said that in the spurt of the moment during a pep rally to hype up the fans, the fact that anyone takes it seriously and holds it against him is hilarious. He's not better than Michael Jordan but he has to win more titles than Jordan otherwise he's a failure? Come on, be real here.

Finally, LeBron did not quit on the Heat and "staying the course" like the Lakers, Bulls, Celtics, etc. is completely irrelevant to this situation. Come on, you're a Heat fan, you watched the finals this year. Don't act like you don't remember how LeBron carried them all year and how his entire team failed him. It's not LeBron's responsibility to carry Wade's broken down ass anymore. What he's doing now in Cleveland is going to be much more of a challenge than had he stayed in Miami (this season). He's going to an extremely young and inexperienced team with a coach that has never coached in the NBA before. LeBron said himself that he doesn't expect them to win this year. They will contend sure because they are in the East but they aren't going to win anything (unless they somehow get Kevin Love and don't have to sacrifice Wiggins the process).

Seriously though, if you think "1% of him" wanted to go home, you're so far beyond delusional and uneducated on the man that I don't know what else I can say to you.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> *Shabazz Napier unfollows LeBron James on Twitter
> *
> (...)
> 
> But now after the Decision, since we all now know that LeBron James has no more use for the Miami Heat, it's clear that Napier now has no use for LeBron as he not only deleted all tweets to the former Heat player but he has also unfollowed him on Twitter.


http://www.hothothoops.com/2014/7/14/5899185/shabazz-napier-unfollows-lebron-james-on-twitter

lol


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

:laugh: at Twitter drama.


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

cima said:


> Man you are a bitter Heat fan and aren't hiding it well. You clearly don't have a damn clue about LeBron at all, which is of no surprise because you're a Heat fan. LeBron lives and breathes Akron, Ohio and that NEVER changed, even when he left. * LeBron never wanted to leave* *in the first place,* do you know how hard he tried to get people to come to Cleveland to play with him? Do some research man, LeBron's presence in Ohio is much bigger than basketball itself. You clearly don't realize how much LeBron means to Northeast Ohio. Him coming home is not bullshit at all, he had better options than Cleveland from a basketball standpoint (Houston and Phoenix for example), but like he said, if he ever left Miami it would only be to go back to Cleveland.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

he was talking to not you


----------



## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

There is no way he opts out this summer if the Heat hadn't broken down so spectacularly against the Spurs. This is a smart basketball move being completely blanketed by the coming home angle. I don't doubt that was a significant part of the decision - but if Cleveland had not had that lottery luck in recent times no way LeBron would be back.

He realised he could get home (and become more likeable) while ditching a fading roster in Miami. It was just a perfect balance of factors.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> he was talking to not you



Yes sport I know that. I just put that "I'm not a Heat fan" at the end in case he were to assume that I was just another angry heat fan.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> cima said:
> 
> 
> > Man you are a bitter Heat fan and aren't hiding it well. You clearly don't have a damn clue about LeBron at all, which is of no surprise because you're a Heat fan. LeBron lives and breathes Akron, Ohio and that NEVER changed, even when he left. * LeBron never wanted to leave* *in the first place,* do you know how hard he tried to get people to come to Cleveland to play with him? Do some research man, LeBron's presence in Ohio is much bigger than basketball itself. You clearly don't realize how much LeBron means to Northeast Ohio. Him coming home is not bullshit at all, he had better options than Cleveland from a basketball standpoint (Houston and Phoenix for example), but like he said, if he ever left Miami it would only be to go back to Cleveland.
> ...


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

The whole "better roster" argument doesn't make sense to me. Miami would, in all likelihood, be returning the Finals for the fifth straight year with a chance to win it all. Even if he was eyeing Cleveland, he would have re-upped with Miami for 1 and a player option for 1 at max value and then left. He left the conference favorites to go to a team that won 35 (rounding) games last year and added a rookie who has potential, but no college career of production.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Rick2583 said:


> Yes sport I know that. I just put that "I'm not a Heat fan" at the end in case he were to assume that I was just another angry heat fan.


but you're not are you? you just hate Lebron for no apparent reason - it's ok, you don't need a reason anyway - people like what they like and dislike what they don't - don't sweat it


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

cima said:


> Rick2583 said:
> 
> 
> > Who ever said he was forced to leave? He wanted to WIN and he wanted badly to WIN in Cleveland. He realized he couldn't win there, which is why he left. It's common knowledge he talked about joining up in Miami but that doesn't change the fact that he would have preferred to win in Cleveland. It just didn't work out that way, so he left and he learned how to win.
> ...


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> This is really starting to get comical, So now he went to Miami & he *LEARNED HOW TO WIN*. Had to be a real difficult task after teaming with several other top tier all stars. Yeah that had to be real tough.
> 
> But hey lets all just assume that Mr. James waited until the witching hour to make his REALLY hard decision. And that he did it with only the best interest of Cleveland fans. And that with heart in hand he just wanted to come back home. There is also an Easter bunny, a tooth fairy & a real live Santa Claus.


Do you think winning an NBA title is easy or something? Yeah you're right, because Miami won it all their first year together and it was super easy for them. Oh wait, no they didn't. 

Get out of here with your nonsensical babbling idiocies. I try so hard to force myself to believe that people like you are just trolling people that are actually intelligent, but it's becoming apparent that you are just stupid.


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

cima said:


> Do you think winning an NBA title is easy or something? Yeah you're right, because Miami won it all their first year together and it was super easy for them. Oh wait, no they didn't.
> 
> Get out of here with your nonsensical babbling idiocies. I try so hard to force myself to believe that people like you are just trolling people that are actually intelligent, but it's becoming apparent that you are just stupid.



Yeah well reality starved people generally have that type of reaction when presented with the truth. But hey being young & naive is not a crime so there's still hope for you.

Have a good night.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> Yeah well reality starved people generally have that type of reaction when presented with the truth. But hey being young & naive is not a crime so there's still hope for you.
> 
> Have a good night.


Not once was I presented with any kind of "truth". I do however apologize for calling you stupid, I know better to respect my elders. 

However, the only thing that is "comical" as you earlier stated is that you believe Miami (LeBron specifically) had an easy time winning the title because they had 3 superstars. If you truly believe that, you don't understand the game of basketball.


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

cima said:


> Not once was I presented with any kind of "truth". I do however apologize for calling you stupid, I know better to respect my elders.
> 
> However, the only thing that is "comical" as you earlier stated is that you believe Miami (LeBron specifically) had an easy time winning the title because they had 3 superstars. If you truly believe that, you don't understand the game of basketball.



Never said winning a title was easy I said leaning how to win (4 straight title appearances) comes easier when you're surrounded by all stars. Just ask Bird, McHale & Parish. Magic, Kareem & Worthy. And several other winning combinations over the years. I've no doubt we're in full agreement on this point. And if so lets just end this marathon on that good note.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

cima said:


> Not once was I presented with any kind of "truth". I do however apologize for calling you stupid, I know better to respect my elders.
> 
> *However, the only thing that is "comical" as you earlier stated is that you believe Miami (LeBron specifically) had an easy time winning the title because they had 3 superstars. If you truly believe that, you don't understand the game of basketball.*


Facts have a way to say otherwise.


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Lebron is the grass is always greener guy.. It's hard to be too upset because his lack of loyalty was always obvious. Besides, as enjoyable as it was to win championships, I found myself enjoying the game more rooting against him to be perfectly honest.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

BlackNRed said:


> Lebron is the grass is always greener guy.. It's hard to be too upset because his lack of loyalty was always obvious. Besides, as enjoyable as it was to win championships, I found myself enjoying the game more rooting against him to be perfectly honest.


Since the grass WAS greener, you can argue that Lebron is a guy that's good at evaluating the greeness of the grass. Dwight Howard on the other hand would be the opposite in that regard. I mean Lebron wouldn't have made 4 straight finals appearance and winning 2 championships had he stayed in Cleveland playing with Danny Ferry's "championship caliber veterans".


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Dion Waiters has to go. He says he's not comfortable coming off the bench... but his destiny in this league is as a bench scorer. If he wants to be a starter, he will always be on bad teams. Cavs need to ship him out ASAP.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

BlackNRed said:


> Lebron is the grass is always greener guy.. It's hard to be too upset because his lack of loyalty was always obvious.


I don't think LBJ's "loyalty" should be seen as in a "team" sence, but in a "situation" sense/context.
I don't think Lebron James had the mind to play for the Heat per se. He did it because he wanted to play with Wade and Bosh first and foremost. If he could have done it in, say, Philly or NY, or whatever, it would be the same for him (at least i don't see no prior evidences of city preferences).
I think it's the situation itself: 4 straight Finals, with 2 championships in the middle, why break up a nice thing we got going on here? Why not coming back with a vengeance, like after losing to Dallas? 
I think it's more like it: he didn't quit on the team/city/fans; he didn't want to preservere in trying to win with that group.



> Besides, as enjoyable as it was to win championships, I found myself enjoying the game more rooting against him to be perfectly honest.


Yeah, you keep telling yourself that!


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)




----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Yes?
> 
> If I leave my current employer, I'm not going to try to burn the place down on the way out to help whomever I'm going to work for next.
> 
> ...


Don't be dramatic. There's a difference between burning the place down and going out of your way to help them approve. He gave them the business equivalent of two weeks, when people are asking for six weeks notice.

We've had some employees give a two weeks notice to work for the competitor and they've been told to go home for good on that exact day. 

Not to mention, he could of not actually decided until last week.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> Since the grass WAS greener, you can argue that Lebron is a guy that's good at evaluating the greeness of the grass. Dwight Howard on the other hand would be the opposite in that regard. I mean Lebron wouldn't have made 4 straight finals appearance and winning 2 championships had he stayed in Cleveland playing with Danny Ferry's "championship caliber veterans".


Jesus, give it a rest. Not every single post needs a defend Lebron reply.

He didn't even say anything that wasn't true.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Don't be dramatic. There's a difference between burning the place down and going out of your way to help them approve. He gave them the business equivalent of two weeks, when people are asking for six weeks notice.
> 
> We've had some employees give a two weeks notice to work for the competitor and they've been told to go home for good on that exact day.
> 
> Not to mention, he could of not actually decided until last week.


It's not over dramatic. I disagreed with your idea that he should try to hurt the Heat before leaving.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Jesus, give it a rest. Not every single post needs a defend Lebron reply.
> 
> He didn't even say anything that wasn't true.


He did say something that wasn't true and I explained why it wasn't. When you say grass is greener on the other side you're implying that Lebron is making a change for the sake of making a change. That's simply not true given that every time he switched teams he indeed drastically improved his situation.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> He did say something that wasn't true and I explained why it wasn't. When you say grass is greener on the other side you're implying that Lebron is making a change for the sake of making a change. That's simply not true given that every time he switched teams he indeed drastically improved his situation.


You really need to relax with your one man quest to defend Lebron. No one you're replying to is even saying anything wrong.

Relax. You're a few posts away from lumping yourself in with the Lebronz.


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

I really wasn't going to reply to any more of the posts here but, I'm amazed how some of you are *STILL* under the delusion that LeBron just made up his mind last week.

Yes Miami will still have a playoff caliber team but seriously don't you think that Pat Riley would have gone strong after someone like Carmelo if he only knew that James wasn't coming back. Myself & obviously several others here think that the Heat should have at least been given that opportunity.

A few of you here have labeled me as a LeBron hater & I'm not, I'm just not a fan of the way he does things. From his egomaniac decision 1 hour special, to his "Not one, not two not three" grand standing bullshit. And this latest selfish fiasco is a perfect example. And lets be honest many of his defenders now are the very same fans that were burning his jersey 4 years ago. And now those hypocritical band wagoners will be climbing back on board.

Sorry but some of you really need a* MAJOR* reality check.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

it's like you've never made a significant, soul searching decision in your life


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

How do you use apostrophes but no capital letters or periods?

Auto correct?


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> it's like you've never made a significant, soul searching decision in your life



Thank you for *ANOTHER* intelligent & in depth response.


----------



## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

RollWithEm said:


> Dion Waiters has to go. He says he's not comfortable coming off the bench... but his destiny in this league is as a bench scorer. If he wants to be a starter, he will always be on bad teams. Cavs need to ship him out ASAP.


I 100% agree with this, he has no business starting. If he feels like he's not the type of guy who comes off the bench, than he needs to be the type of guy that plays on a different team. 

I know there is talk about including him in a potential Love deal. If they could bring in Love without moving Wiggins, that would be fantastic...but it's hard to say if that package is going to be enough or not. Either way, somebody will pony up something for Waiters, and the Cavs should be ready to pull the trigger.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

BlakeJesus said:


> somebody will pony up something for Waiters, and the Cavs should be ready to pull the trigger.


Exactly. For example, they could have easily gotten Afflalo for Waiters if they had decided to go that route. There is probably another similar deal to that one on the market... whether or not they add Love.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Rick2583 said:


> Thank you for *ANOTHER* intelligent & in depth response.


it's more of an astute observation than a response 

your posts suggest that you have never made a long term, life changing decision and so don't understand the process 

and btw I doubt this is really the case - I'm sure you have made life decisions - it's just that you just seem to be letting your irrational Lebron hate cloud your judgment

but just in case I'm wrong, this kind of decision is not like a binary switch where you just one day go "hey I think I'll go to Cleveland" 

you may have inclinations, you may lean one way or another, you may agonize and worry about the friends who will be impacted and what other people will think and whether what you want to do is really the right thing to do

maybe in deciding between two options you'd give each side a chance to make their argument and then actually weigh your decision based on what they bring to the table and you may not even know what they will bring to the table or how you will feel about it until they do 

and maybe you cant even get to that stage until certain deadlines have passed - maybe you cant even have a discussion to hear both sides until a certain date has been passed *(like say, um, July 1st)* and until you hear both sides you cant be sure

and you want to be sure since you're making a decision that will impact your friends and family and career and maybe even legacy so you want to hear that information and have those talks and get all your options laid out in front of you before really actually making the decision

you know, like in actual life the way people live


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> It's not over dramatic. I disagreed with your idea that he should try to hurt the Heat before leaving.


I didn't say that. I said he shouldn't aide them. Go back and read it.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> I really wasn't going to reply to any more of the posts here but, I'm amazed how some of you are *STILL* under the delusion that LeBron just made up his mind last week.


I'm going to refer you to this article about his decision in 2010 and for everyone else that thinks his homecoming is bullshit and doesn't realize how important he is to Akron, Ohio and vice versa.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11210073/lebron-james-returns-home



> For weeks he had tried to find a way to stay, to recruit players to join him in Cleveland, so he wouldn't have to leave. Ray Allen said no. So did Chris Bosh, Trevor Ariza and Dwyane Wade. Sure, they wanted to play with him. Who wouldn't? But not in Cleveland. James was the one with a connection to the place, not them. If he wanted to win, he would have to sever those ties and go somewhere where other stars would join him.
> 
> The decision to leave his hometown Cleveland Cavaliers for the Miami Heat had been made that morning. LeBron walked around with it uncomfortably all day. He knew it would hurt people, that nothing would ever be the same for him after he did it.





> "The ride from his house to the airport is 35 minutes," said Jones, who played with LeBron from 2005 to 2008 and remained a close friend. "Neither of us said a word. It was tough. You saw it on his face, just his emotions.
> 
> *"Everybody thought that the Miami decision was planned a week, two weeks prior, but it was in the last minute. He exhausted everything to try and get players to come to Cleveland and play with him. I was there for the whole week, staying in his house. He was agonizing, 'I want to win. I want to win here, but can we?'
> 
> "I don't think the fans knew that. They think he just went to Miami and that was it."*


That's straight from the mouth of Damon Jones, former teammate and close friend of LeBron. So everyone can stop acting like they know what has or what goes through the head of LeBron. Most people here are going off pure speculation about him and think they have a damn clue when they really don't.

While it's not clear when he made the decision to return to Cleveland, it would be a safe bet to assume he took his time with this decision as well. Damon Jones did state it was a much easier call for him this time around, but that doesn't mean he made his decision some 2 weeks prior to announcing it like some people think he did.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> I didn't say that. I said he shouldn't aide them. Go back and read it.


I did. Telling Riley when he knew he was leaving isn't aiding them. It's being an adult.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

R-Star said:


> I did. Telling Riley when he knew he was leaving isn't aiding them. It's being an adult.


and how long did he 'know' before he told Riley?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> and how long did he 'know' before he told Riley?


Probably quite some time. Remember when I mentioned that he knew a long time ago?

What about the article Cima posted where a guys saying Lebron spent nights weeping right up until "The Decision" because he was trying so dang hard to get guys to Cleveland because that's where he wanted to stay?

Lebron can't have it both ways on this. 

That being said, again, I really don't care. I think he went about it fine. I was just arguing at the idea that it would be a bad decision for Lebron to have let Riley know once he knew. I don't agree with that at all.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

yeah I think you're wrong - he might have been leaning towards Cleveland but he couldn't know for sure until he heard both sides and he couldn't do that until July 1st and he made his decision known within a week after that - up to that moment he couldn't know what Cleveland would offer or what their plan was (unless you want to posit collusion)


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> it's more of an astute observation than a response
> 
> your posts suggest that you have never made a long term, life changing decision and so don't understand the process
> 
> ...



Aside from your response being the longest damn sentence I've ever read, lets just agree to disagree on this one. Guys like you & cima are Obviously Cleveland fans, or perhaps just Cleveland fans *AGAIN* now that LeBron has come back. And that's cool. Now hopefully you won't have to burn any more jerseys in the next couple of years.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> yeah I think you're wrong - he might have been leaning towards Cleveland but he couldn't know for sure until he heard both sides and he couldn't do that until July 1st and he made his decision known within a week after that - up to that moment he couldn't know what Cleveland would offer or what their plan was (unless you want to posit collusion)


Do you honestly think Cleveland and Brons people didn't talk at all until that publicized meeting? Or that Lebrons people aren't smart enough to tell him that Miami basically couldn't do anything different if the big 3 stayed together?


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

R-Star said:


> Do you honestly think Cleveland and Brons people didn't talk at all until that publicized meeting? Or that Lebrons people aren't smart enough to tell him that Miami basically couldn't do anything different if the big 3 stayed together?



Star, wearing blinders will do that to you.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Rick2583 said:


> Aside from your response being the longest damn sentence I've ever read, lets just agree to disagree on this one. Guys like you & cima are Obviously Cleveland fans, or perhaps just Cleveland fans *AGAIN* now that LeBron has come back. And that's cool. Now hopefully you won't have to burn any more jerseys in the next couple of years.


well known Lakers homer here friend - keep up the good work on the not knowing anything front - you're keeping your record pristine


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

R-Star said:


> Do you honestly think Cleveland and Brons people didn't talk at all until that publicized meeting? Or that Lebrons people aren't smart enough to tell him that Miami basically couldn't do anything different if the big 3 stayed together?


so you're alleging collusion? you should definitely pass your sources on to Adam Silver and Pat Riley I assume they'd be interested


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> so you're alleging collusion? you should definitely pass your sources on to Adam Silver and Pat Riley I assume they'd be interested


Well, if we're going to act like idiots I'll take this opportunity to leave the discussion.

James couldn't talk or think about Cleveland early because it would be collusion..... even though he Bosh and Wade basically admitted to colussion in the past?

Bring better reasoning into our next discussion please.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

R-Star said:


> Well, if we're going to act like idiots I'll take this opportunity to leave the discussion.
> 
> James couldn't talk or think about Cleveland early because it would be collusion..... even though he Bosh and Wade basically admitted to colussion in the past?
> 
> Bring better reasoning into our next discussion please.


a hypothetical conversation between players is one thing - such an interaction (as your suggesting) between a player's representatives and a franchise is a completely different (and actionable) matter

and alleging such without a single link or shred of documentation is hardly what anyone would characterize as "better reasoning" so you might want to take a look in the mirror, please


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> a hypothetical conversation between players is one thing - such an interaction (as your suggesting) between a player's representatives and a franchise is a completely different (and actionable) matter
> 
> and alleging such without a single link or shred of documentation is hardly what anyone would characterize as "better reasoning" so you might want to take a look in the mirror, please




They say ignorance is bliss, if that's indeed true then you've succeeded in taking it to the next level. I'm with Star here, time to stop indulging you. You're on your own.

And for God sakes get the CAP button on your keyboard fixed.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Rick2583 said:


> Aside from your response being the longest damn sentence I've ever read, lets just agree to disagree on this one. Guys like you & cima are Obviously Cleveland fans, or perhaps just Cleveland fans *AGAIN* now that LeBron has come back. And that's cool. Now hopefully you won't have to burn any more jerseys in the next couple of years.


As a person who has debated with both of those guys during my time here, I can assure you with confidence that they are not Cavaliers fans. 

Sincerely, an actual Cavaliers fan.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

seifer0406 said:


> Since the grass WAS greener, you can argue that Lebron is a guy that's good at evaluating the greeness of the grass. Dwight Howard on the other hand would be the opposite in that regard. I mean Lebron wouldn't have made 4 straight finals appearance and winning 2 championships had he stayed in Cleveland playing with Danny Ferry's "championship caliber veterans".


How is that not pretty much exactly what I said? He assessed the situation and decided he has a better chance to win in Miami. And now he did the same thing and decided Cleveland is his best chance. 

There is no sense of franchise or fanbase loyalty with him, as is true with many athletes. Which is why I said I can't really be upset.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

BlackNRed said:


> How is that not pretty much exactly what I said? He assessed the situation and decided he has a better chance to win in Miami. And now he did the same thing and decided Cleveland is his best chance.


Saying that the grass is always greener you're implying 2 things. The new situation may not be better than the old one just that the person always believes that it is, the person likes change and that he makes those changes for the sake of making them. What I'm saying is every time Lebron made a move like that the new situation was clearly better. If Cleveland had a better supporting cast when they were under Danny Ferry I doubt Lebron would've left in the first place. Had Wade's health been better perhaps Lebron wouldn't have left Miami.


----------



## goodfoot (Feb 28, 2009)

I don't think it's fair to say he has no fanbase loyalty. There are plenty of teams with cap space with a better roster than Cleveland.


----------



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> Guys like you & cima are *Obviously *Cleveland fans, or perhaps just Cleveland fans





Rick2583 said:


> And for God sakes get the CAP button on your keyboard fixed.


... so he can randomly capitalize words in the middle of sentences?


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Dornado said:


> ... so he can randomly capitalize words in the middle of sentences?



Yeah I guess capitalizing cities is wrong & capitalizing God is wrong. As far as the words I want to emphasize, well that's just my choice to capitalize those bold print so they stand out more.

Maybe you don't capitalize things like the names of cites or God but I do.


----------



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> Yeah I guess capitalizing cities is wrong & capitalizing God is wrong. As far as the words I want to emphasize, well that's just my choice to capitalize those bold print so they stand out more.
> 
> Maybe you don't capitalize things like the names of cites or God but I do.


I was talking about the word "obviously", which I bolded to point out that it was randomly capitalized. 

It was mostly amusing to me because reading this thread backwards I got your post complaining about emonk's use of capitalization and then a post from you a half a page away with random capitalization in it. You know, stones, glass houses, etc...


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Dornado said:


> I was talking about the word "obviously", which I bolded to point out that it was randomly capitalized.
> 
> It was mostly amusing to me because reading this thread backwards I got your post complaining about emonk's use of capitalization and then a post from you a half a page away with random capitalization in it. You know, stones, glass houses, etc...



Okay I can only assume at this point that comprehension is not one of your strong points. I don't know how I can make it any clearer but if it will help you to understand I'll try it again. Okay, you ready? maybe if you read it slow. Alright here goes, I *INTENTIONALLY* capitalized the bold printed words so they stand out. I did it on purpose. There was nothing random about it. It was done again *INTENTIONALLY* to emphasize a point.

Did this really need explaining or were you just being a smart ass?


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Rick2583 said:


> Okay I can only assume at this point that comprehension is not one of your strong points. I don't know how I can make it any clearer but if it will help you to understand I'll try it again. Okay, you ready? maybe if you read it slow. Alright here goes, I *INTENTIONALLY* capitalized the bold printed words so they stand out. I did it on purpose. There was nothing random about it. It was done again *INTENTIONALLY* to emphasize a point.
> 
> Did this really need explaining or were you just being a smart ass?


I think it Obviously needed explaining. I mean god damn it TO milwaukee.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

deal me out of this thread please


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Diable said:


> deal me out of this thread please



Yeah me too. After Dornado I think I need a cold beer. Or two, or three.


----------



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> Okay I can only assume at this point that comprehension is not one of your strong points. I don't know how I can make it any clearer but if it will help you to understand I'll try it again. Okay, you ready? maybe if you read it slow. Alright here goes, I *INTENTIONALLY* capitalized the bold printed words so they stand out. I did it on purpose. There was nothing random about it. It was done again *INTENTIONALLY* to emphasize a point.
> 
> Did this really need explaining or were you just being a smart ass?


You're going to assume that comprehension is not one of my strong points? Here is your quote, champ:



Rick2583 said:


> Aside from your response being the longest damn sentence I've ever read, lets just agree to disagree on this one. Guys like you & cima are Obviously Cleveland fans, or perhaps just Cleveland fans *AGAIN* now that LeBron has come back. And that's cool. Now hopefully you won't have to burn any more jerseys in the next couple of years.



The word "Obviously" is not bolded... it is, however, capitalized... one might say, randomly. So now you've criticized e-monk for improper capitalization (which was petty and ridiculous to begin with) while capitalizing a random word in the middle of a sentence... then tried to question my comprehension by repeating "I capitalize the bold printed words" when I clearly stated in the post before that I wasn't talking about those words. 

My favorite part was where you suggested that I "read it slow" (which, incidentally, should be "slowly", hooray for adverbs). Condescension only works when you have a valid argument.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

:cheers:


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Diable said:


> deal me out of this thread please


No. Once you're in, you're in.


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Dornado said:


> You're going to assume that comprehension is not one of my strong points? Here is your quote, champ:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're a funny guy, Putting a capital on obviously when it wasn't in bold was *OBVIOUSLY* a mistake. What your little buddy Monk has been doing was creating an entire post without capitalizing anything. So if you're going to wear the big boy pants & play like an English teacher. Maybe you should be addressing Monk instead of me. And you may also take note that it was poster STAR that brought this to his attention first (post #118 ).

First you had me *RANDOMLY* capitalizing* WORDS* in the middle of sentences. And then after it was explained to you you managed to find *ONE* word that I made a mistake on. Damn kid you got me.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I like this rIck Guy - he keeps Things around heRe inTeresting by bEing ri*dIcK*Ulous


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm sorry did I misspell 'ridiculous'?


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> I like this rIck Guy - he keeps Things around heRe inTeresting by bEing ri*dIcK*Ulous



No need to pretend your ignorance, I feel it safe to say that that ship has already sailed.. Have a good night kid.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

wah wah wah....

be nice, I'm the only one on your side


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm always nice to those that are challenged.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Rick is looking more and more like a pissed off version of Drizzay.

P.S. @cima you don't want to know who that is.


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

XxIrvingxX said:


> Rick is looking more and more like a pissed off version of Drizzay.
> 
> P.S. @cima you don't want to know who that is.



Sorry I hate to disappoint you sparky but it takes a lot more then conversing with some clown on a message board to piss me off. It's really not that important to me.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Rick2583 said:


> I'm always nice to those that are challenged.


no seriously, I mean it

everyone here thinks you're troll bait

but not me, I'm on your side, I see the real you....


a 60 year old dude hanging out on an internet site venting irrational (possibly homoerotic) spleen about some stranger you've never met and who probably wouldn't give you the time of day if you ever managed to get within 10 feet of him (except to maybe point at you so that his security crew could bundle you up and get you the heck away from him)

and that's not sad at all, in fact I think it's kind of heroic, so be nice


----------



## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> no seriously, I mean it
> 
> everyone here thinks you're troll bait
> 
> ...



LMAO, damn you must be a thrill at parties. You're obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer but to your credit you are one funny son of a bitch. It may be for strictly entertainment purposes only but this board is lucky to have you. Keep them laughing kid.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I like Rick, and I mean that sincerely. I'm not just saying that to open up an insult like monk did either. I like Rick and hope he sticks around, end of sentence.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Goddamn warzone in here... chill out guys its a freaking message board


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I've got nothing but love


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Man the grammar police need to chill out we arent discussing politics on a friggin Ivy League message board Your on a basketball message board your acting ridiculous if your resorting to calling out people on there grammar.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Jamel Irief said:


> I like Rick, and I mean that sincerely. I'm not just saying that to open up an insult like monk did either. I like Rick and hope he sticks around, end of sentence.


I don't see how you could say I insulted him - I told him I was on his side and I called him a god damn hero


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

e-monk said:


> I don't see how you could say I insulted him - I told him I was on his side and I called him a god damn hero


Yeah nice try. 

If you want to continue like your passive aggressive attack was a compliment have at it.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I don't care what you say jamel, to me he's god damn hero


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> I don't see how you could say I insulted him - I told him I was on his side and I called him a god damn hero




You know Monk in my 60 years of life I've always been a very easy going guy with a great sense of humor. For the most part I've gotten along with everybody I've ever met which may further explain my very fortunate wealth of friends. And there hasn't been very much in my life that I don't like. But there are two things that I detest in people, liars & phonies. And you clearly have both those unfortunate traits, proven in your post (#159).

So do me a favor, I may post on this site again in the future & although you are a great source of humor & I've no doubt you're sole purpose on these boards are strictly for comic relief. Do me a favor if I do post here again. Just don't respond. More so for yourself then for me. I mean why embarrass yourself when you really don't have to. Try & behave yourself.

And Jamel, thanks.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Rick2583 said:


> You know Monk in my 60 years of life I've always been a very easy going guy with a great sense of humor. For the most part I've gotten along with everybody I've ever met which may further explain my very fortunate wealth of friends. And there hasn't been very much in my life that I don't like. But there are two things that I detest in people, liars & phonies. And you clearly have both those unfortunate traits, proven in your post (#159).
> 
> So do me a favor, I may post on this site again in the future & although you are a great source of humor & I've no doubt you're sole purpose on these boards are strictly for comic relief. Do me a favor if I do post here again. Just don't respond. More so for yourself then for me. I mean why embarrass yourself when you really don't have to. Try & behave yourself.
> 
> And Jamel, thanks.


You're not 60 years old. No 60 year old person calls people Lebron James dick riders because they disagree with what they're saying in regards to Lebron.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

XxIrvingxX said:


> You're not 60 years old. No 60 year old person calls people Lebron James dick riders because they disagree with what they're saying in regards to Lebron.



What?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

cima said:


> Man the grammar police need to chill out we arent discussing politics on a friggin Ivy League message board Your on a basketball message board your acting ridiculous if your resorting to calling out people on there grammar.


*you're


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

also 'their'

as in "where grammar? there grammar"


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Definitely not reading all this but from what I've seen, I like Rick.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

SMH at u too that took my post seriously


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

no no no


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

cima said:


> SMH at u too that took my post seriously


I don't get it? You don't want people taking you seriously?


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> I don't get it? You don't want people taking you seriously?


My post was filled with irony that appears to have gone over your head.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

cima said:


> SMH at u too that took my post seriously



Could you possibly translate your post to English. what does SMH stand for?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Rick2583 said:


> Could you possibly translate your post to English. what does SMH stand for?


It stands for Shake My Hand. He's trying to apologize for god sakes. Be a man and shake hands with him.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

R-Star said:


> It stands for Shake My Hand. He's trying to apologize for god sakes. Be a man and shake hands with him.



So his post says "shake my hand" at you too that took my post seriously?

I don't mean to get picky but is there something wrong with that sentence or is it me?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Rick2583 said:


> So his post says "shake my hand" at you too that took my post seriously?
> 
> I don't mean to get picky but is there something wrong with that sentence or is it me?


Shake the mans hand!


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

why the face?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> why the face?


WTF? Because he won't SMH.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

It stand for Shaking My Head @Rick2583

I also had no clue what it meant for quite some time.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

cima said:


> My post was filled with irony that appears to have gone over your head.


Do I know you well enough to know your grammatical abilities? 

I'll answer: no.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

This thread got horribly off topic.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

I know sarcasm can be hard to detect over the internet but wow lol.

I used to be the grammar police on these boards when I was younger, people that can't differentiate "your, you're, there, their, and they're" has been one of my biggest pet peeves since I can remember. But I also realized that when I would resort to correcting someone's grammar on here it's usually because I had lost the argument I was in with them and was trying to save face, which is what some people on here still do.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

cima said:


> I know sarcasm can be hard to detect over the internet but wow lol.
> 
> I used to be the grammar police on these boards when I was younger, people that can't differentiate "your, you're, there, their, and they're" has been one of my biggest pet peeves since I can remember. But I also realized that when I would resort to correcting someone's grammar on here it's usually* because I had* *lost the argument I was in with them and was trying to save face, *which is what some people on here still do.




I'm guessing with you this happened a lot.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> I'm guessing with you this happened a lot.


Actually no, not really. I've always considered myself to be in the upper echelon of posters on this board, but to say that I constructed a better argument between ages 16-21, which is when I previously spent the majority of my time here compared to now at 27 would be foolish.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

XxIrvingxX said:


> This thread got horribly off topic.


and what was that topic? the god damn real live American heroism of some 60 year old dude on the internet and his crusade against the evil tyranny that is Lebron! that's the topic, let's get back on it dammit!


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

e-monk said:


> and what was that topic? the god damn real live American heroism of some 60 year old dude on the internet and his crusade against the evil tyranny that is Lebron! that's the topic, let's get back on it dammit!



Okay monk, as meaningless as your opinions are & with the hopes that you can still maintain that wonderful humorous court jester personality of yours, I'll play. So what do you want to learn now?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

can you teach me how to be a god damn real live American hero?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

about time to lock this thread, ey?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

This thread is so gay, it refers to Bloomingdale's as "Bloomies".


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dornado said:


> about time to lock this thread, ey?


Oh wow, look at Dornado, going around being an internet tough guy as per usual. 

Big surprise. You have mental issues. You really need to just let things go and quit trying to "win" all the time.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

Dornado said:


> about time to lock this thread, ey?



Please do, I'm sure it will be appreciated by most.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Oh wow, look at Dornado, going around being an internet tough guy as per usual.
> 
> Big surprise. You have mental issues. You really need to just let things go and quit trying to "win" all the time.


Talking about locking a thread because it has gone off topic is called being a 'moderator', not an 'internet tough guy'. 

I know I hit a sensitive spot with you by pointing out your bullying approach and competitive message boarding, but this was a weird way to lash out.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

I for one want this to stay open as long as possible. This place is at its best when there's fights.


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## Pyrex (Jan 14, 2014)

Dornado said:


> Talking about locking a thread because it has gone off topic is called being a 'moderator', not an 'internet tough guy'.
> 
> I know I hit a sensitive spot with you by pointing out your bullying approach and competitive message boarding, but this was a weird way to lash out.


Don't you find it odd R-Star says you have mental issues? Out of all people, of course people that say that to other people 10/10 have issues themselves.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Talking about locking a thread because it has gone off topic is called being a 'moderator', not an 'internet tough guy'.
> 
> I know I hit a sensitive spot with you by pointing out your bullying approach and competitive message boarding, but this was a weird way to lash out.


Props for actually discussing it this time instead of just locking it, or even worse, moving it to trash threads with no explanation.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I don't get this - the OP was just the usual pathetic "I hate Lebron and want you to know about it" sort of post and admin not only left it open but moved it to the general forums (from the Cavs forums) bringing to everyone's attention what would inevitably be a troll baiting provocation when it really should have just been crammed right into the massive Charlie Foxtrot that is the Lebron-MJ-Kobe mega thread where practically no one would bother with (nor be bothered by) it

So it was classic trollery from the very start but NOW you want to close it?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Talking about locking a thread because it has gone off topic is called being a 'moderator', not an 'internet tough guy'.
> 
> I know I hit a sensitive spot with you by pointing out your bullying approach and competitive message boarding, but this was a weird way to lash out.


I'm just making fun of you for being a chump Dornado, nothing more.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Pyrex said:


> Don't you find it odd R-Star says you have mental issues? Out of all people, of course people that say that to other people 10/10 have issues themselves.


Says doctor pyrex. That's humorous.


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

When I first started this thread (seems like 2 years ago) I expected a handful of posters calling me an ass, while others may have agreed with me a bit, to the fanatics who worship the man to a point that they would use his jock-strap as a nose guard. But.....DAMN! I never expected this.


We've gone from debating the actions of LeBron, to insults to spelling lessons & now some 200 posts later to the threat of being shut down. But through it all we've had the one common factor throughout. And that my dear friends is the Comic relief that Monk has so humorously supplied.

So I say the hell with it, while we're enjoying Monks audition for last comic standing, I say lets keep this thread going. And keep in mind that if everybody agreed all the time this board would be as boring as watching paint dry. JMO.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

e-monk said:


> I don't get this - the OP was just the usual pathetic "I hate Lebron and want you to know about it" sort of post and admin not only left it open but moved it to the general forums (from the Cavs forums) bringing to everyone's attention what would inevitably be a troll baiting provocation when it really should have just been crammed right into the massive Charlie Foxtrot that is the Lebron-MJ-Kobe mega thread where practically no one would bother with (nor be bothered by) it
> 
> So it was classic trollery from the very start but NOW you want to close it?


I moved it out of the Cavs forum because it was essentially anti-a-certain-Cav and wasn't started by a Cavs fan (the general idea of the team forums is that fanbases should be able to post there about their teams to have discussions with other fans of that team... or at least not face hostility towards their team... that's why NBA General is there to allow for the broader discussion). Leaving it open in the first place was questionable, I'll give you that. The reason I started talking about closing it now is that we've meandered so far away from anything resembling basketball discussion


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

R-Star said:


> I'm just making fun of you for being a chump Dornado, nothing more.


Oh, well, in that case, carry on.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Floods said:


> I for one want this to stay open as long as possible. This place is at its best when there's fights.


Rick is a phony and Jamel wears leggings

Oh and @Basel sucks


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## Rick2583 (Mar 17, 2014)

cima said:


> Rick is a phony and Jamel wears leggings
> 
> Oh and @Basel sucks



And you're a bed wetter that picks his nose. You want to take it to that level, I'll play.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

cima said:


> Rick is a phony and Jamel wears leggings
> 
> Oh and @Basel sucks


Damn. Everyone thinks I suck. You guys got to @cima. Bastards.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Rick2583 said:


> And you're a bed wetter that picks his nose. You want to take it to that level, I'll play.


Shouldn't you be at your bingo hall right now?


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Rick2583 said:


> When I first started this thread (seems like 2 years ago) I expected a handful of posters calling me an ass, while others may have agreed with me a bit, to the fanatics who worship the man to a point that they would use his jock-strap as a nose guard. But.....DAMN! I never expected this.
> 
> 
> We've gone from debating the actions of LeBron, to insults to spelling lessons & now some 200 posts later to the threat of being shut down. But through it all we've had the one common factor throughout. And that my dear friends is the Comic relief that Monk has so humorously supplied.
> ...


You say all of this and then immediately afterwords you go on to claim that someone here picks their nose and wets their bed at night...


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Well if nobody else is going to close this thread, I guess I will. Sorry, folks. Time to move on.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Just bumping this for @ATLien and @Adam. Thread re-opened. I think everyone has cooled off since July.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

ATLien said:


> It's crazy that people expect Miami to win 50 games without LeBron. They won 54 last year and replaced the best player in the world with Luol Deng & McRoberts





Adam said:


> Want to make a bet?





Adam said:


> You're wearing this avatar for three months if I win:


Atlanta's already clinched a better record than Miami so enjoy Smoove for the next three months!


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Oh man... Josh Smith? 

That's a real dick move ATL.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Congrats @Adam!


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Where did it all go wrong?


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

:laugh:


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