# Magloire on free agency, Raptors, Colangelo, and Bosh



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Magloire had at least 75 tickets for family, friends and some youth basketball teams that he sponsors. A free agent after next season, Magliore has said in the past he would love to play for Toronto. On Friday, he said the hiring of general manager Bryan Colangelo was a great new beginning for the Raptors. He also said his style of play would complement power forward Chris Bosh.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=AkOQM0GzjHIc21RoME9FPru8vLYF?gid=2006031728

In related news, Nazr had 30/16 in a win over the Suns tonight.


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Jamal As A Raptor, Is A Dream!


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

Nazr should be our top priority. honestly, remember the games he's had with New York? now he's doing it with Timmy and Parker takin majority of the shots..and HE's the focal point of them getting loose balls n rebounds. and i kno a lot of ppl says he lacks mental toughness, but if he comes to Toronto Sam Mitchell will get him to work his tail off every game.


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## MjM2xtreMe (Sep 1, 2005)

The question is would you take Nazr or Magloire? We could sign Nazr this coming off-season or wait next year to fill the hole.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

i think Nazr would take less money but we would have to over pay him to leave SA


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## [email protected] (Sep 27, 2005)

<i> "....Toronto center Rafael Araujo made a rare appearance and was booed...." </i>
^ ****ty


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

MoP+Bonner=Mags, this off-season. Book it.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

shookem said:


> MoP+Bonner=Mags, this off-season. Book it.


why would the bucks want more shooters? they already have charlie bell, redd, and simmons that love to shoot. if anything, they need magloire because outside of bogut and smith, they're front court is very thin.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

we cannot wait till next year, we need a real C now, sign nazr, next year look at if Rashard Lewis will be available and other big names.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> <i> "....Toronto center Rafael Araujo made a rare appearance and was booed...." </i>
> ^ ****ty


Sucks to be him. Gets 5 minutes, 2 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists. Gets booed.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

the question is would nazar would want to come here to me nazar overated and if I was him I'd stay with the spurs its a better situation than toronto. the spurs are a respected organizaton, a championship contender, with td and tony theres not any real presure to perform and the weather great why would you leave all that to come to toronto the only thing we have going for us is money plus look at the comments andrew bought said 

"I'd heard you don't want to get drafted by Toronto because out of the U.S. it's a hassle to get in and out"

see the type of rep toronto has luring free agents here going to be difficult


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Bring in Mohammed next year, if he comes cheap. His style of play compliments Bosh, too. If the Raptors can re-sign Mike James to a reasonable contract, it will show the Raptors are serious about competing which will go a long way to attracting quality free agents in the summer of 2007.

Magloire will want to much money to come to Toronto. I don't think the Raptors should persue him.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Mr_B said:


> the question is would nazar would want to come here to me nazar overated and if I was him I'd stay with the spurs its a better situation than toronto. the spurs are a respected organizaton, a championship contender, with td and tony theres not any real presure to perform and the weather great why would you leave all that to come to toronto the only thing we have going for us is money plus look at the comments andrew bought said
> 
> "I'd heard you don't want to get drafted by Toronto because out of the U.S. it's a hassle to get in and out"
> 
> see the type of rep toronto has luring free agents here going to be difficult


I agree that Nazr probably doesn't want to come to Toronto, they could convince him with huge money, but I'd be really hesitant to do that. I do think he might want out of SA, unless he begins to get more minutes like he did last night, he should bolt.

Magloire, I still want Magloire (and a free throw shooting coach).


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

San Antonio has already offered Mohammed an extension on his contract, which he and his agent rejected, seeking a five-year deal. RC Buford is known for being very fiscally responsible and he will not overpay for a player. If Mohammed and his agent demand too much they will just as soon let him walk. They have a centre to replace him with as well as a developing Oberto on the bench.

I think Chicago will be in competition to sign him, but they are keying-in on other players as well, such as Nene, Gooden, and Pryzbilla. Also, if Chicago drafts a player like Aldridge they will be less willing to offer a big man the loot to play there.


I personally feel that Magloire will go to whoever offers him the most money. I think his desire to play in Toronto is as much posturing as anything else. He is trying to set himself up to get a max money contract. If Toronto doesn't offer one to him and someone else does, he can easily sign with them and then tell the media that Toronto "wasn't serious" about wanting him. Bottom line is always money for players not already under contract (ie. Mike Finley, Tim Thomas).

Do you sign a player like Mohammed this summer, and pay him $50M/5 years, or do you wait another year and sign Magloire to the same contract? Do we need the help today or tomorrow? Mohammed is a good role player at a coveted position, who will score garbage points and get rebounds. Will Magloire be satisfied with a limited role on the floor? Can he defer to Bosh, Villanueva, and our pick (and James)? Can either of these guys play in an up and down scheme? Do you sign a modestly priced centre with more offensive talent like Battie instead?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I don't know that either are worth that much. That is a lot of money and a lot of years. No Foyle deals please.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> andrew bought said
> 
> "I'd heard you don't want to get drafted by Toronto because out of the U.S. it's a hassle to get in and out"
> 
> see the type of rep toronto has luring free agents here going to be difficult


JYD addressed this the other night on the Hoops show. He said that for many american players it can be a problem for some of their friends or family to cross the border. Meaning they have criminal records. That has been the issue. They have no trouble moving from state to state in the US but an international border is a huge problem when you have criminal convictions. When you consider the backgrounds of where many of the top players come from it is no surprise that they have friends or family with such issues. Nothing that can be done about this, just a reality the Raps have to live with.

As for other FA's don't forget about Mbenga with Dallas. The Mavs love him, probably more than Podkolzine, but can't afford to sign him and don't have as much PT now that Diop is doing OK for them. He's more raw but could be the cheapest and best long term fit for us. The next Dalembert? Stronger body I think.

Lakers may be tempted to move Kwame or Mihm this summer as well with Turiaf coming back strong and Bynum being the future.

And for a longshot, how about Rashard Lewis this summer. He has already said publicly he will opt out next year. That means the Sonics have to move him now to get any value or risk losing him for nothing. Or they move Ray to clear cash for Lewis. If our draft pick lands us a shot at Morrison or Gay the Sonics might be tempted.


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## Dr. J. Naismith (Feb 23, 2005)

speedythief said:


> Do you sign a player like Mohammed this summer, and pay him $50M/5 years, or do you wait another year and sign Magloire to the same contract? Do we need the help today or tomorrow? Mohammed is a good role player at a coveted position, who will score garbage points and get rebounds. Will Magloire be satisfied with a limited role on the floor? Can he defer to Bosh, Villanueva, and our pick (and James)? Can either of these guys play in an up and down scheme? Do you sign a modestly priced centre with more offensive talent like Battie instead?


See speedy, though Jamaal's eyes he thinks he's worth a max deal and has been quoted saying via his agent that once his existing contract is done, he'll be searching for huge deal. Five years for 50 million isn't going to cut. I bet anything Joel Pryzbilla gets that type of a contract seeing how Dalembert got something similiar last season. I personally think Jamaal is overrated and is worth a 5/50 contract, but Jamaal's ego doesn't think so. 

I personally have a distaste in my mouth for the big baby after his temper tantrum last summer before Nash's charity in Toronto and his constant rejections to represent his country in international play. The worst thing that has ever happen Magloire was him being named the the All-Star team a couple years back. Now he's thinks his crap smells like roses. :curse: 

Sorry, I'll stop my rant now.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

Magloire sure talks about Toronto a lot. Nice, but I'm not sure how professional it is. Can you imagine if Bosh was talking about another city a lot and how he'd like to play for them when he's a FA?


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> <i> "....Toronto center Rafael Araujo made a rare appearance and was booed...." </i>
> ^ ****ty


You'd have to be a f'in a'hole to boo for a player on your own team who has done nothing but work hard from the minute he's been here. I still think if used as a high post passing type center, he could be an effective backup. He played about 2 minutes in the game against the sixers and made two of the best passes from high post to low post I saw all game. The problem is that our offense has such poor ball movement that this type of centre doesn't really fit.

Back to the main point, if you boo Araujo, you are a ------- MORON and I hope he loses it one day and goes into the stands to pound your *** into the ground.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Team Mao said:


> You'd have to be a f'in a'hole to boo for a player on your own team who has done nothing but work hard from the minute he's been here. I still think if used as a high post passing type center, he could be an effective backup. He played about 2 minutes in the game against the sixers and made two of the best passes from high post to low post I saw all game. The problem is that our offense has such poor ball movement that this type of centre doesn't really fit.
> 
> Back to the main point, if you boo Araujo, you are a ------- MORON and I hope he loses it one day and goes into the stands to pound your *** into the ground.


quit crying they boo him cuz hes garbage and useless when out on the court he shows flashes of being a solid player but that all they are flashes untill he steps his game up then they should boo him off the court matter of fact hoffa should take the boos and use it as motavation and for the record I boo hoffa everytime he sets foot on the court and I will continue to do so until he shows he can be productive


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

speedythief said:


> Do you sign a player like Mohammed this summer, and pay him $50M/5 years, or do you wait another year and sign Magloire to the same contract? Do we need the help today or tomorrow? Mohammed is a good role player at a coveted position, who will score garbage points and get rebounds. Will Magloire be satisfied with a limited role on the floor? Can he defer to Bosh, Villanueva, and our pick (and James)? Can either of these guys play in an up and down scheme? Do you sign a modestly priced centre with more offensive talent like Battie instead?


I feel mags is a lock to come here but I woulden't pay him that much money his numbers don't reflect 50 million the most I'd offer him is 20-25 and that may even be too much


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Mr_B said:


> quit crying they boo him cuz hes garbage and useless when out on the court he shows flashes of being a solid player but that all they are flashes untill he steps his game up then they should boo him off the court matter of fact hoffa should take the boos and use it as motavation and for the record I boo hoffa everytime he sets foot on the court and I will continue to do so until he shows he can be productive


Nice to know that you would boo for someone on your hometeam. I'm sure it really does wonders. Perhaps you're always secretly hoping for the Raps to lose. Maybe it simply makes you feel like a big man to boo a guy like Hoffa. edited
Hoffa didn't tell anyone to draft him at 8th, get over the fact that he was an 8th pick. If you want to boo someone, boo McCloskey for drafting him there. Boo Sam for his horrible offensive system. But don't boo the players who work the --- of trying to improve in spite of the fact that moron fans continue to boo him.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Team Mao said:


> Nice to know that you would boo for someone on your hometeam. I'm sure it really does wonders. Perhaps you're always secretly hoping for the Raps to lose. Maybe it simply makes you feel like a big man to boo a guy like Hoffa. LOSER.
> Hoffa didn't tell anyone to draft him at 8th, get over the fact that he was an 8th pick. If you want to boo someone, boo McCloskey for drafting him there. Boo Sam for his horrible offensive system. But don't boo the players who work the a** of trying to improve in spite of the fact that moron fans continue to boo him.


whos talking about the 8th pick? whos taking about sam?(he gets planey of heat) I'am talking about performance on the court hoffa been here for a few years now and he has yet to show an ounce of progress he looks like the same player he was in college the fans(myself included) are fed up with the him hes not even nba level hes ndbl talent right now maybe you should call up your boy hoffa and let him know that theres a nba season going on and it be nice if he could show up. edited.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Would everyone please get off the Magloire love wagon? He's not coming to Toronto. Ever. He's using the Raptors as leverage to get one last huge contract from someone who's gullible. Colangelo isn't gullible and won't give him 5 yrs/$50 mil.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

> You'd have to be a f'in a'hole to boo for a player on your own team who has done nothing but work hard from the minute he's been here.


I don't wanna take this OT, but if you pay money to see a game you have the right to boo.

When Toronto played the Nuggs, MoP missed three straight FT's, I booed, I may be an A-Hole, but if your putting up the cash to watch the games in person, it's your right. Earlier the same game, the team couldn't get an offensive rebound to save their life, I booed then too. All the same, I screamed till my voice got hoarse trying to cheer the team on, but you should call them as you see them, that's what any professional would want.

Anyways,
You gotta think about the money a player could make. A good center could a) give hope to the fanbase, b) maybe box someone out and get a rebound, that alone would garner a couple of wins for the Raps, c) Now if that center's Magloire does that alone put more people in the stands? Does he fit the bill and maybe give you a little something extra? This is ML$E.

I dunno, if Mags prices himself out of the market, we'll have to pass, it's as simple as that. But one of these days we are going to need a center, and whoever that is will cost big bucks.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I don't expect us to have much cap space so Magloire better be ready to sign for the MLE if he wants to play in Toronto.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

SkywalkerAC said:


> I don't expect us to have much cap space so Magloire better be ready to sign for the MLE if he wants to play in Toronto.


Yep, I agree. Although there is the possibility of a sign-and-trade, if we're short on cap space. But I think we'll sign or draft a big this off season, so I'm not sure how much room there will be for Mags.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Ballyhoo said:


> Yep, I agree. Although there is the possibility of a sign-and-trade, if we're short on cap space. But I think we'll sign or draft a big this off season, so I'm not sure how much room there will be for Mags.


Sign and trade possibility should be quite low. All of the less desirable players/contracts will have dropped off by then so where does the big contract that we'd have to send that way come from? It doesn't. It's possible that BC saves cap space for the following summer but I highly doubt he's enamoured with Magloire. Then again, who is going to be offering Mags more than the full MLE?


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

One thing we need to remember is that last year was as great an example as any that big bodies are a premiumin the draft.

I have been saying it since I joined this forum. This offseason is make or break for the franchise. I honestly think they are going to make the "push" towards the playoffs THIS offseason, so i think Magloire is not in the picture (1 -because he isn't a FA till next season 2- apparently thinks he is worth big money-which I would prefer be spent on James now, and Bosh, Mo and Charlie down the road)

What colangelo needs to decide is whether or not we can 

A - get a 25 minute (8 pts, 9 rbs, 1.25 blks) center out of the draft
B - spend money on a FA option at center - has been discussed
C - trade down - risky, but the only teams with multiple picks in the 1st round are Nets (now at 24th&25th) Knicks (now at 21&29) or the Hornets (now at 15th&17th).

The only way I see "C" happening is a package deal. Realistically the Raptors would not trade our "5th" pick to any of the teams with more than 1 1st rounder.

I really hope Collangelo comes through this draft because if he doesn't think someone that can contribute in the middle right away, we need to spend money on a FA center. Period.

*Bosh needs to play with a center*. Period.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Benis007 said:


> One thing we need to remember is that last year was as great an example as any that big bodies are a premiumin the draft.
> 
> I have been saying it since I joined this forum. This offseason is make or break for the franchise. I honestly think they are going to make the "push" towards the playoffs THIS offseason, so i think Magloire is not in the picture (1 -because he isn't a FA till next season 2- apparently thinks he is worth big money-which I would prefer be spent on James now, and Bosh, Mo and Charlie down the road)
> 
> ...



I disagree. I see no real rush to push for the playoffs next season. The boys could make it and BC should put new players in place to help them to do so but we shouldn't do anything too hasty or drastic. BC isn't in the hot seat; he's in for the long haul. 

1- if BC drafts our small forward like Gay or Morrison and finds a point guard to really push the tempo, we're going to be playing Charlie and Bosh at the 4 and 5 more often than not. Charlie and Bosh need to be on the court. 

2- if we draft a big, we have to go with him and that means not signing center of significance ($$). 

It's a very important offseason but it's one to cement our future as a contender, whether that means playoffs right away is up to the players. I could easily see BC not spending all his cap room this summer.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

i think we need to make headway to sign Bosh


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Sign and trade possibility should be quite low. All of the less desirable players/contracts will have dropped off by then so where does the big contract that we'd have to send that way come from? It doesn't. It's possible that BC saves cap space for the following summer but I highly doubt he's enamoured with Magloire. Then again, who is going to be offering Mags more than the full MLE?


A-Will and Hoffa. That'd make for a $10 mil/year signing. But I agree, Mags isn't worth more than the MLE in any case.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Benis007 said:


> One thing we need to remember is that last year was as great an example as any that big bodies are a premiumin the draft.
> 
> I have been saying it since I joined this forum. This offseason is make or break for the franchise. I honestly think they are going to make the "push" towards the playoffs THIS offseason, so i think Magloire is not in the picture (1 -because he isn't a FA till next season 2- apparently thinks he is worth big money-which I would prefer be spent on James now, and Bosh, Mo and Charlie down the road)
> 
> ...


I have to disagree on the re-signing of James. When the team hits it's stride in 2-3 seasons, I think he'll be deteriorating. Plus, the team needs a PG, not a 6'1" SG. In terms of A, B, and C.

A- O'Byrant, or Hibbert if he declares (another strong performance and it's very likely).
B- Wilcox or Ely, neither would eat up all of our capspace. Maybe MLE money for 5 years.
C- If NO/OK is interested in someone at the 5, and the players we're targetting are available at 14 or 15, I think it would be an alright deal. (edit- Dexpress hs Marcus Williams and O'bryant at 14,15 (NO's picks), that draft would make me happier than a pig in poo)

I think if we were to draft one of the C's mentioned, it would be best to have them come off the bench for the first 2 seasons. Wilcox or Ely could put in 20-25 at the centre and another 10 backing up Bosh at PF. Not many centres can come in and start contributing in their first year, so we need to be patient and not make the Hoffa mistake again (starting someone too early). After two years, if O'Bryant or Hibbert is ready to start, then we move Ely or Wilcox to backup for a few seasons.
Basically our frontcourt would look like this:

SF- Villanueva (35), Graham (10-15)
PF- Bosh(35), Wilcox/Ely(10), Villanueva (G), Sow(G)
C- Wilcox/Ely(20), O'Bryant/Hibbert(25), Sow(G)

After Bosh gets his extension, then that lineup could be locked into contract for quite a few seasons, allowing them to really develop some strong chemistry together.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

O'bryant is not exactly tearing it up. He may come out, but he is nothing special. 7' is not everything.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> O'bryant is not exactly tearing it up. He may come out, but he is nothing special. 7' is not everything.


He's not exactly tearing it up but name one centre who's playing better than he is right now. He made Aaron Gray (a projected mid first round pick) look absolutely foolish the other day.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Team Mao said:


> He's not exactly tearing it up but name one centre who's playing better than he is right now. He made Aaron Gray (a projected mid first round pick) look absolutely foolish the other day.


Hoffa was probably a better college center for one.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Benis007 said:


> i think we need to make headway to sign Bosh


I don't. The crucial years, with regards to whether Bosh stays for the long term or not, will be after Bosh re-signs. I have absolutely no worries that Bosh will try to become an unrestricted free agent (taking a fifth year on his rookie salary scale with the Raps) or demand a trade with a max deal and a team developing around him.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

You have to be insane to sign a player like Mohammed to $50 for 5 years but a GM like IT will probably do it. 

I still say we need a shot blocking center. Our defense is horrible. We need someone to reinforce the D in our paint. I'm sick of opposing perimeter players getting to the rim with ease. 

I also don't think BC can make the Raps into a Suns like system. We need Nash and Mike D in order to make that happen. It's like when Riley left the Lakers. He didn't turn the Knicks or Heat into showtime. He played to their strengths. I think it would be a mistake if BC trys to make the Raps into Suns part deux. 



speedythief said:


> Do you sign a player like Mohammed this summer, and pay him $50M/5 years, or do you wait another year and sign Magloire to the same contract?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Gilgamesh said:


> You have to be insane to sign a player like Mohammed to $50 for 5 years but a GM like IT will probably do it.
> 
> I still say we need a shot blocking center. Our defense is horrible. We need someone to reinforce the D in our paint. I'm sick of opposing perimeter players getting to the rim with ease.
> 
> I also don't think BC can make the Raps into a Suns like system. We need Nash and Mike D in order to make that happen. It's like when Riley left the Lakers. He didn't turn the Knicks or Heat into showtime. He played to their strengths. I think it would be a mistake if BC trys to make the Raps into Suns part deux.


I don't think you sign either of those players to that contract, but it is the contract both will demand, and one or both will get at least 75% of it.

Personally I'm leaning towards signing someone like Ely, Wilcox or Battie for half the price.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

speedythief said:


> I don't think you sign either of those players to that contract, but it is the contract both will demand, and one or both will get at least 75% of it.
> 
> Personally I'm leaning towards signing someone like Ely, Wilcox or Battie for half the price.


Speedy, I'm starting to agree with the 2nd tier Ely or Wilcox signing, maube not Battie because he's a bit older than the other two and not as versatile. My thinking though is that a big man should be taking on the draft and brought along slowly on the bench behind the FA pickup and eventually replacing them in the starting lineup.
Do you think we should try to draft a big (O"bryant, Armstrong, Hibbert?, S. Williams) if we're *not* targetting Przy, Nene or Nazr?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Speedy, I'm starting to agree with the 2nd tier Ely or Wilcox signing, maube not Battie because he's a bit older than the other two and not as versatile. My thinking though is that a big man should be taking on the draft and brought along slowly on the bench behind the FA pickup and eventually replacing them in the starting lineup.
> Do you think we should try to draft a big (O"bryant, Armstrong, Hibbert?, S. Williams) if we're *not* targetting Przy, Nene or Nazr?


I say Battie because he is a steady if unspectacular defender. His age and knees will prevent anyone from offering him an inflated contract. But he played 81 games last year and he's on pace to play the whole season this year so he's not too frail. He doesn't do any one thing especially well but he does just about everything pretty decent and he's experienced.

Guys like Ely and Wilcox are both unproven players so it would be more of a risk to get them. I like Ely because he is big but mobile, in my mind every bit as good as Nene at this point in time. Both of them have room to improve, Nene more so but who knows what the double-surgery will do to him. Wilcox would suit us if we are less interested in half-court because he is an athletic freak who people seem to think is slow-witted--the more structure the less effective he's likely to be.

As for the draft I'm up for getting anyone or trading the pick.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Gilgamesh said:


> I also don't think BC can make the Raps into a Suns like system. We need Nash and Mike D in order to make that happen. It's like when Riley left the Lakers. He didn't turn the Knicks or Heat into showtime. He played to their strengths. I think it would be a mistake if BC trys to make the Raps into Suns part deux.


Thank you. Well put.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

I thought Ely got most of his minutes playing the 4.

Besides, the thought of signing a guy who's only getting PT because of an injured starter and backing up Brezec doesn't appeal to me.

I want a legit, starting C. It's not like we're not going to need it.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

shookem said:


> I thought Ely got most of his minutes playing the 4.
> 
> Besides, the thought of signing a guy who's only getting PT because of an injured starter and backing up Brezec doesn't appeal to me.
> 
> I want a legit, starting C. It's not like we're not going to need it.


Ely is plenty big to play C if we are an uptempo team. The onus isn't on being a traditional centre so much as it is to protect our forwards, keep up with the game, rebound, defend, and lay the wood on slashers.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

speedythief said:


> Ely is plenty big to play C if we are an uptempo team. The onus isn't on being a traditional centre so much as it is to protect our forwards, keep up with the game, rebound, defend, and lay the wood on slashers.


He's not that big though. 6'10 255 lbs, big enough but could the reason he has never been a starting five in the NBA because is he can't. Four years into his career and he's only started in 45 games? Most of those due to injury. And let's face it, he wasn't the back-up to All-Stars, he's never been on a winning team that is keeping him on the bench. We're talking about the guy who can't take the job from Brezec (who only averages 5 rpg) and couldn't take it from Olowokandi when he was in LA. He's never played a full season and this is the first year averaging more then 20 mpg. Plus he's kind of fragile (only playing in 219 of a possible 310 games in his career). This is also the first year he's rebounding at all (5 rpg).

I dunno Speedy, he don't sound like a starting center to me.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Ely is not a center, we might as well go with Bosh or Charlie at the 5 if we're going uptempo. 

Wilcox is going to take a fairly major monetary commitment. Seattle wants to keep him.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

(nba.com measurements)

Nazr - 6-10 - 250lbs
Magloire - 6-11 - 259 lbs
Ely - 6-10 - 261lbs
Wilcox - 6-10 - 235 lbs

Is there really a big difference between these guys and 6-9 250lb Shelden Willaims?


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Benis007 said:


> (nba.com measurements)
> 
> Nazr - 6-10 - 250lbs
> Magloire - 6-11 - 259 lbs
> ...


Depends on whether or not you believe that Williams is really 6'9".


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Team Mao said:


> Depends on whether or not you believe that Williams is really 6'9".


The dude has a nine and a half foot wing span though. I dunno, I don't thinkn Sheldon is a starting center in the NBA, but felt compelled to say something nice about him.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Team Mao said:


> Depends on whether or not you believe that Williams is really 6'9".


Too bad they don't list standing reach or wingspan. That might shut a few people up.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Too bad they don't list standing reach or wingspan. That might shut a few people up.


I'll wait until predraft measurements before I trust any measurements on wingspan, height or standing reach, because they seem to be the only 'real' measurements done these days. 
However, any time I've seen him play, he doesn't look anywhere close to 6'9".

Blowuptheraptors, what will you do on draftday if the Raptors pick someone else? It seems that you've had your heart set on Williams all year.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Team Mao said:


> I'll wait until predraft measurements before I trust any measurements on wingspan, height or standing reach, because they seem to be the only 'real' measurements done these days.
> However, any time I've seen him play, he doesn't look anywhere close to 6'9".
> 
> Blowuptheraptors, what will you do on draftday if the Raptors pick someone else? It seems that you've had your heart set on Williams all year.


I know my chances are nil. I'm just putting myself out there. When Shelden does what he'll do I'll be there to take it or give it out.

And really, look at all the guys that are sky rocketing up the board. O'byrant, the 7'2 guy from georgetown, Noah (who has his own size issues), if all of these guys were so good, they'd have shown it in more than a game or two. Shelden has been a pure beast for 2 full years and has shown solid improvement in his game in several areas. Why does shelden average nearly 4 blocks but the upstarts get under 2 and they are shotblocking defensive beasts. Come on. I''m not saying you said any of this. But I get sick of the "upside". Why is someone's upside stagnant just because they have dominated as a Jr and Sr? If anything, I don't want another bloody project. i know what I'm getting with Shelden. From Rudy, to Bargnani to Aldridge and beyond, I don't know what I'm getting.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

I don't mind drafting a project, and because of where we will likely draft, that will probably be the case.

I still want to take a long look at Splitter.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

The Magic re-signed Battie.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Magic_ReSign_Tony_Battie-172989-800.html

He's out, but Orlando won't be competing with us for FA's now, either.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

*Tony Battie re-signed with the Magic*

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Magic_ReSign_Tony_Battie-172989-800.html


Say good bye to Battie.


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## [email protected] (Sep 27, 2005)

speedy, i kinda disagree. its not like tony battie is a huge star and will be extremely coveted in the league. i think orlando is still on the market for a centre.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Blowuptheraptors,
I know that my comments about Williams might imply that I think Williams will not have a successful career in the league. I think he will do well for himself but IMO he will do so as a PF or as a backup C. When I advocate the signing of a Wilcox or Ely, I do so thinking that they will be starting for one year maybe two while a big man draft pick develops, then pushes Ely or Wilcox to the bench.

The biggest question I have about Williams is his hands, I'm just not sure that they is something that can be learned. Watching players like Armstrong (right now my favourite big man, although it seems to change weekly), O'Bryant (2), Noah (3), or even Hibbert(4), their games are somewhat less developed than Williams, but they've got better size and better hands, two things that can't really be learned.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Team Mao said:


> Blowuptheraptors,
> I know that my comments about Williams might imply that I think Williams will not have a successful career in the league. I think he will do well for himself but IMO he will do so as a PF or as a backup C. When I advocate the signing of a Wilcox or Ely, I do so thinking that they will be starting for one year maybe two while a big man draft pick develops, then pushes Ely or Wilcox to the bench.
> 
> The biggest question I have about Williams is his hands, I'm just not sure that they is something that can be learned. Watching players like Armstrong (right now my favourite big man, although it seems to change weekly), O'Bryant (2), Noah (3), or even Hibbert(4), their games are somewhat less developed than Williams, but they've got better size and better hands, two things that can't really be learned.


I can tell you that his hands are pretty good. They are big and pretty soft. He rarely fumbles balls passed hard in or up high and is tremendous on the break as you may or may not have witnessed in the first weekend.

What you may also not know is how well he passes out of double teams. He is usually very quick to recognise one and then find an open man, usually Melchioni for 3 or Josh for a dunk.

While I like Hilton, he is not the defender that Shelden is. Make no mistake, I want Shelden for the 4/5 (I don't think pure centres are necessary in this day and age) for his defensive and rebounding abilities.

Offensively he is not Bosh, nor should he be expected to be. What he does bring is a guy on O that can knock down a 15 footer, hit his FTs, which is a big deal, ask CB4, and finishes strong at the hoop. 

Most people roll their eyes at me and that's fine, but if he gets ~30 mins he can average 8/9, 8/9 and between 1.5 and 2 blocks in his rookie year.

Given his own track record, and the track record of feature bigmen at Duke, one should be more sure of his abilities over and above those you list that are rising up the board. When you compare each next to Shelden, is there a single aspect that they beat him on OTHER than height?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> speedy, i kinda disagree. its not like tony battie is a huge star and will be extremely coveted in the league. i think orlando is still on the market for a centre.


With Darko and Battie I think they are done spending at that spot for now.

But that's not my point. They're capped out so they won't be going after anyone significant.


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