# Raptors Sign Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet



## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Four-years, $20 Million as reported by RealGM.

Okay, BC _really_ has to go now.

edit: can a mod throw the word "Sign" into the thread title. Thanks


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: Raptors Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet*

:laugh:


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Raptors Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet*

20 Million? **** YOU BC.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: Raptors Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet*



Porn_Player said:


> 20 Million? **** YOU BC.


It's almost like he knows he's getting fired, now he's just trying to see how much further he can set this team back.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Raptors Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet*



-James- said:


> It's almost like he knows he's getting fired, now he's just trying to see how much further he can set this team back.


He can't even blame the market. Duhon went for 4 years $15mill and he's arguable a better player than both Amir Johnson ($34 mill??) and Kleiza ($20mill??) THOSE ARE INSANE PRICES. BC is really pissing me off and I truly thought he would bring this franchise success.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Raptors Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet*

Are the Nets back office in competition with BC? They supposedly just inked Outlaw to 5 years $35mill. 

Two terrible franchises.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: Raptors Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet*

At least Outlaw is capable of blowing up and dropping 25-30 points.

When Kleiza goes off, it will be to the tune of 16 and 7.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: Raptors Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet*

Brian Colangelo: The Man Who Killed the Toronto Franchise


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

IMHO it isn't bad. That is less than the MLE opposed to signing Gomes or whoever for even more. Kleiza can play and he is still young.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

There's a lot of very good talent out there, but not that much for MLE. I think Matt Barnes or Brendan Haywood would have been a better option ... but oh well. Now that this is done:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linas_Kleiza

On January 17, 2008, Kleiza scored a career high 41 points against the Utah Jazz.[4] His scoring average was up to 11.1 points per game and his shooting percentage was up to 47 percent.

So he can score. But really average fg%, sub-par 3pt fg%. Coach Karl says he's 'not a playmaker'. Probably give him the benefit of the doubt ... can't get many minutes playing behind Carmelo. 

I don't see the nuggets matching because of their depth at forwards.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

More data:

"Linas Kleiza in Raptors hat. Says he doesn't want Denver to match. Wants to be here"

“I’m glad to have him,” Raptors swingman Sonny Weems, who was on Denver two years ago as well, said. “He can score. He can shoot the ball. We’re going to need shooters next year to stretch the defence out. “He’s a real cool dude.” National Post

Denver Nuggets restricted free agent forward Linas Kleiza signed a four-year, $18.8 million offer sheet with the Toronto Raptors on Thursday, his agent, Bill Duffy, told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher. The Nuggets, who made a qualifying offer to Kleiza last month, have seven days to match the Raptors offer. ESPN.com

Didn't think about Sonny being his teammate back in Denver. 18.8 is = 4.7M per year. Not too bad, not that great. Takes time away from the rooks. 

Jarrett Jack(30) / Jose Calderon(30) / Marcus Banks(0)
Sonny Weems(25) / Demar Derozan(25) / Marco Bellinelli(0)
Hedo Turkoglu(30) / Linas Kleiza (15)
Amir Johnson(25) / Ed Davis(20) / Reggie Evans (10)
Andrea Bargnani(30) / Joey Dorsey(0) / Solomon Alabi(0)


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ Haywood and Barnes will get MLE offers from better teams than Toronto. We're getting someone who at least wants to be here.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Speaking of which Haywood just signed for 6/55.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

4 years/$20 million is a bargain compared to what other players are getting, including new teammate Amir Johnson. I mean, 4 years/$20 million is the going rate for _Darko Milicic_.

Kleiza's at least played a role on a solid playoff team.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Denver will match this.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Adam said:


> Denver will match this.


Why'd they let him go to Greece?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Kleiza is a starting caliber player IMO. He's not some bench scrub. Guys with his scoring instincts are rare at that price.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

speedythief said:


> Why'd they let him go to Greece?


He didn't want to take the QO last year. No one offered him a contract, so he went overseas. However, the Nuggets wanted someone else to set his market value.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

It's little less than what was reported.



> Denver Nuggets restricted free agent forward Linas Kleiza signed a four-year, $18.8 million offer sheet with the Toronto Raptors on Thursday, his agent, Bill Duffy, told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.
> 
> The Nuggets, who made a qualifying offer to Kleiza last month, have seven days to match the Raptors' offer.
> 
> ...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5364021


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I don't think you can get much more for $5m or less per season outside of rookie scale contracts.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Its a decent signing but this is another 'depth' kind of a guy when the Raps need a star. Is there a plan yet? Been waiting 4 years for BC to actually make a plan and stick to it.

At least we are acquiring young assets on reasonable deals but we are completely capping ourselves out to do it.

I really don't know how to judge this yet. Depends what the final roster, and salary totals look like.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

My guess is Turkoglu will be moved. Lebron going to Miami is actually a good thing for a team like us because contending teams (Or teams that think they are contenders) will be looking to add key role players in order to compete. Perhaps we will be able to unload Turk/Calderon to teams like Dallas/Orlando/Lakers/Boston.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i don't see the point to this. he's a SF and this team needs a bigman, especially a 5. i'm quite content with weems and derozan taking all the minutes at the 2 and 3 and i don't want to see a mediocre journeyman added to the rotation. linas aint no scrub, but he ain't anything special either. 5mil per is a pretty generous contract for him actually, if you look at what some other guys like maurice evans, matt barnes have been making.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

With this move I think it takes Weems out at SF untol Hedu is moved I see if Hedu still here SF Hedu 30 Klieza 18 MPG
as of now SG Derozan 26-30 MPG Weems 15 Belelini 2-5


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Where Weems and DeRozan are more of G/f, Klieza is a true forward, he can play a little 4 in a pinch and does bring the ability to spread the floor.

These are two mixes from this last season in Europe....looks good to me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksghsIVO_fk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYkrrZPa4NQ&feature=related


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

so we all know where kliza likes the ball.. pocket 3's


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

hope he is like Garbajosa


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

I don't know why BC rejected this offer in February. Someone knows?

Bosh for Scola, Battier, Brooks/Filler.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> I don't know why BC rejected this offer in February. Someone knows?
> 
> Bosh for Scola, Battier, Brooks/Filler.


Because it was not on the table!


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

as foir available players I just heard Redd will miss the 1st half, I think Rip would be good fit he can split time with DD. As for C add a good rugged vet C like Brad Miller or Gortat.
Move Hedu to Orlando we can get Gortat and Pietruis if so I think we are looking at
Jack Jose
DD Weems 
SF Pietrus Klieza
PF Jhonson Davis Evans
C Bargnani Goratat 

Need to move Evans, Banks with Jose for a big name PG ala Gilbert or 2 good young guns.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I really don't see why Orlando would deal you Gortat and Pietrus for Turkoglu. Those are two of their better defensive players and they could get something more valuable than Turk. Because of his contract, Hedo doesn't have much value around the league right now - you guys know that.

As for the Lakers, I think the most they'd be willing to offer would be Sasha and Luke Walton. It saves the Raptors $23m long-term and would obviously be a purely financial move. I imagine the Lakers would throw in a second round pick or two as well.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Good signing, I like Kleiza.

Whatever happened to Garbajosa also?


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: Raptors Linas Kleiza To Offer Sheet*



NeoSamurai said:


> Brian Colangelo: The Man Who Killed the Toronto Franchise


At least he gave us one season of basketball worth watching.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

not sure if i posted this already but it deserves a second post.

this is a horrible worthless signing.

raps should be looking to develop their youth. they already made a mistake last year with turk, so why are they making the same mistake with kleiza? just let the young guys play. i don't care if weems/derozan at 2/3 is undersized, raptors should be playing both of them 32 minutes a game. they are our two most talented players.

if we needed size at the 3, we should have pushed for earl clark who seems to be falling out of favor in phoenix anyway.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ Kleiza is a good player who is also young. DD & Weems will still get their burn. They got it with Hedo and will get more without him. Obviously this signing was made knowing that Hedo was on the way out.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

speedythief said:


> ^ Kleiza is a good player who is also young. DD & Weems will still get their burn. They got it with Hedo and will get more without him. Obviously this signing was made knowing that Hedo was on the way out.


that is too much money for someone who i hope won't play much more than 20 minutes a game at a mediocre level. i think he's basically a smaller bargnani who's allowed to play his natural position. and despite what you say, you just know jay triano is going to start him over one of weems and derozan.

weems and derozan should have been our starters for good last year. hedo made it impossible. now we might see the same mistake with a even worse player.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/16/nuggets-wont-match-offer-sheet-on-linas-kleiza/

It is official now. Welcome Kleize to the raps !

Calderon / Jack / Banks
Derozan / Barbosa / Bellineli
Weems / Kleiza / 
Amir / Ed Davis / Evans / Jones
Bargnani / Alabi / Dorsey

We are going to get owned this season, BUT there's going to be flashes of exciting basketball with Weems/Derozan/Amir


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

4.4 mill is the standard for avg role players its markjet value, I think he would been more ideal for a 4 year 12-14 mill deal but its not we spent 10 mill on him.
PG Jack/Banks
SG Derozan Barbosa/Bellinelli
SF Weems/ Klieza
PF Jhonson/ Davis
C Bargnani Alabi

To be moved Calderon Evans Jones


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

It's official:



> TORONTO -- Toronto has signed free agent Linas Kleiza to a multiyear contract.
> 
> The Raptors acquired the rights to Kleiza nine days ago when the Denver Nuggets opted not to match Toronto's offer sheet.
> 
> ...


*Link*


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

It will be interesting to see where Kleiza's strengths are as a player these days. DEN commentators used to say he was a very good wing defender and even guarded Kobe at times. But others say he is a bad defender.

I don't think he is a 30mpg player at all. He is suited to being a 24mpg player in my opinion. A decent asset on a good team, just not sure how he fits with this team.

Front loaded contract, young guy, nba experience. Maybe similar to a Ryan Gomes type. Actually, just looked it up and Gomes is a better 3pt shooter and rebounder. Not a good sign as I was not interested in bringing in a boring role guy like Gomes to a losing team.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I didn't like this signing initially but now considering the terms this could be a nice addition. As much as I like Weems he has long ways to go to be a legitimate NBA starter and development wise Kleiza is much more polished. The 2 of them can duke it out and give us depth at SF while they're doing so.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> I didn't like this signing initially but now considering the terms this could be a nice addition. As much as I like Weems he has long ways to go to be a legitimate NBA starter and development wise Kleiza is much more polished. The 2 of them can duke it out and give us depth at SF while they're doing so.


i think weems proved in the limited stretches last year that he can play in this league. he was our player of the game when hedo went out with face problems.

kleiza is not more polished at all. he is maybe 2 inches taller but that would be it. i don't think this signing was necessary because we're supposed to be playing the young guys and could have easily just signed a mediocre sf for cheap. oh wait, he IS that mediocre signing, BC was just too stupid to offer him anything less than 4million. Maybe he should go back to elementary school and learn how to do math so he can stop wasting our cap space.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Kleiza is 18 months older than Weems and has way more experience. This could turn into a very good signing going forward. Linas may not be a lock down defender, but he will not be a pylon, his size makes up for Sonny's lack when guarding small forwards. I see Weems' future as a 2 guard not a 3, trading for Barbosa will hurt more than Linas getting 25 minutes a game. We are talking about a guy who outplayed Josh Childress, and everyone would have loved to get him.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

c_dog said:


> i think weems proved in the limited stretches last year that he can play in this league. he was our player of the game when hedo went out with face problems.
> 
> kleiza is not more polished at all. he is maybe 2 inches taller but that would be it. i don't think this signing was necessary because we're supposed to be playing the young guys and could have easily just signed a mediocre sf for cheap. oh wait, he IS that mediocre signing, BC was just too stupid to offer him anything less than 4million. Maybe he should go back to elementary school and learn how to do math so he can stop wasting our cap space.


Nobody is saying Weems isn't a NBA player, but he's not a legitimate NBA starter, yet.

Kleiza has played 4 years in Denver and had 3 solid years coming off the bench for a playoff team. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that he's more polished than Weems at this point. He's also only 24 and fits right into what we're doing. 4 mil a year for a guy like this isn't that bad by any stretch.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

any idea what number he will wear


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Kleiza is a great addition. Toronto and their euro's!


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> Nobody is saying Weems isn't a NBA player, but he's not a legitimate NBA starter, yet.
> 
> Kleiza has played 4 years in Denver and had 3 solid years coming off the bench for a playoff team. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that he's more polished than Weems at this point. He's also only 24 and fits right into what we're doing. 4 mil a year for a guy like this isn't that bad by any stretch.


i think it's bad because we just needed a 2-3mil guy to backup the 3(kleiza could be that guy but we overpaid a bit there). weems should be our future 3 along with derozan at 2. kleiza has more experience but weems has way more upside. i'm pretty much set on just building around the young gunz now.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Wade County said:


> Kleiza is a great addition. Toronto and their euro's!


He may have been born in Europe, but he played high school basketball in the USA and also went it college and played in the NCAA, not a real Euro as you say.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Wade County said:


> Kleiza is a great addition. Toronto and their euro's!





c_dog said:


> i think it's bad because we just needed a 2-3mil guy to backup the 3(kleiza could be that guy but we overpaid a bit there). weems should be our future 3 along with derozan at 2. kleiza has more experience but weems has way more upside. i'm pretty much set on just building around the young gunz now.


For Stretches Weems and DeRozan can play together, but to have them on the floor for starters minutes together we would be doomed. DeRozan measured out at 6'5.5" and gets the 6'7" listing, Weems measured out a 6'4" and gets the 1.5" bump as well. This would be a very small wing tandem to move forward with, I am not saying they don't have a place together, but Weems to me is a 2 guard as is DeRozan and they should not be considered our starting 2/3's going forward. 

Look at the starting small forwards around the league, we have the Carmelo's and Lebron's, but we also have Durant, Deng, Marvin Williams, Granger, Gerald Wallace, Gay, Pierce, Prince, Artest, and Iguodala. Weems does not have the length or strength to handle guys like this for 35 minutes a game. Id DeMar has added an inch since coming in as a freshman, than maybe the SF spot is his to have....but he has been groomed as a 2.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

c_dog said:


> i think it's bad because we just needed a 2-3mil guy to backup the 3(kleiza could be that guy but we overpaid a bit there). weems should be our future 3 along with derozan at 2. kleiza has more experience but weems has way more upside. i'm pretty much set on just building around the young gunz now.


You're overrating Weems.  I like his game and all but until he shows more consistency and range on his jump shot it's not wise to put all of your eggs in one basket. They're both going to get around 25 min a game because they can both slide over and play the 2 in stretches. At this point we should be stocking on assets and Kleiza at 4+ mil a year (not to mention a frontload contract) is an asset. Even if Weems does blow up to be a superstar (lol) you would only be paying 4 mil a year for a backup, which isn't bad at all.

Heres the thing, I know everyone is angry at BC. But I don't think we should just put a negative spin on everything that he does. Just like trading Turkoglu for Barbosa is a good trade. It's not a bad trade because BC is the one that signed Turkoglu, what is done is done. Kleiza would've gotten this kind of contract 2 years ago but he chose to go back to Europe for more money (He got about 6 mil a year for 2 years). This contract is going to be front-loaded so we would be paying less for him in the future.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

billfindlay10 said:


> For Stretches Weems and DeRozan can play together, but to have them on the floor for starters minutes together we would be doomed. DeRozan measured out at 6'5.5" and gets the 6'7" listing, Weems measured out a 6'4" and gets the 1.5" bump as well. This would be a very small wing tandem to move forward with, I am not saying they don't have a place together, but Weems to me is a 2 guard as is DeRozan and they should not be considered our starting 2/3's going forward.
> 
> Look at the starting small forwards around the league, we have the Carmelo's and Lebron's, but we also have Durant, Deng, Marvin Williams, Granger, Gerald Wallace, Gay, Pierce, Prince, Artest, and Iguodala. Weems does not have the length or strength to handle guys like this for 35 minutes a game. Id DeMar has added an inch since coming in as a freshman, than maybe the SF spot is his to have....but he has been groomed as a 2.


i think you're way too close to this, bill. but if a couple of cm's really presents that much of a problem over the course of the season, i have an idea: why don't we put mr. 7'1" at SF? wouldn't we then be strong where we were once weak?

he'd have approximately 15 cm to work with on all those players you mentioned and we'd be golden. 

my point is that if it works in one way, it has work in the other. if derozan and weems are too small, we can't say bargnani is too big imo. it's not like there's a 'magic size' we have to nail. if we're going to complain about our weaknesses, we might as well accept our strengths. otherwise we're just contradicting ourselves.

but i disagree regardless. i don't think incremental variances in height play that much of a role in this league with bodies that are between 72 and 90 inches long. i don't think it necessarily hinders weems and derozan very much, while we already know it doesn't _help_ bargnani very much. i think the pro game largely comes down to basketball instincts: if you have them, you'll find a way (in spite of your size). if you don't, you won't (again, in spite of...). but i'm sure we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. it's an age-old argument, after all.

peace


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

ballocks said:


> i think you're way too close to this, bill. but if a couple of cm's really presents that much of a problem over the course of the season, i have an idea: why don't we put mr. 7'1" at SF? wouldn't we then be strong where we were once weak?
> 
> he'd have approximately 15 cm to work with on all those players you mentioned and we'd be golden.
> 
> ...


I was not really trying to make it come down to an inch or two, but what I was getting at is Weems is not a starting NBA small forward, he brings good athleticism to the floor and that is it. His size (lack of) hurts him at this position in the long run as he would get abused by taller or stronger small forwards in the NBA, that is why I mentioned Artest and Pierce as well as all the rest. He is not great at any one thing like a Kapono or Morrow who can earn minutes with shooting. HE is what he is and that is a hustle guy, undersized hustle guys at eh 4 spot do well as they usually have wide frames to make up for it, but small guys at the 3 spot are not as successful unless they do one this really well....and like I said, Weeems does not. 

As for Andrea, he is not, never was, and never will be, a small forward in the NBA. So to use that as your argument on the flip side is silly. Sure he has lined up there for a few minutes here and there, but his career was never going to be on the wing, anyone who truly thinks that to me must watch a different player and game than I do.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

billfindlay10 said:


> As for Andrea, he is not, never was, and never will be, a small forward in the NBA.


how can you be so sure? i'm not saying you're wrong, you could very well be right- i'm saying there's no point to rule anything out anymore. all i know is that andrea bargnani has been an epic failure as a 5, namely as a rebounder. i've seen nothing to suggest he's at all comfortable in the paint- at either end of the floor. imo, there's nothing to lose by moving his skillset to another spot on the court- especially if his natural talent is pushing him in that direction anyway.

he is, has never been and will never be a SF? fine. but where's the evidence? the only evidence i've seen is that this is a small man in a big man's body. the only thing that's been proven, imo, is that he is not a natural 5 and getting him to change his natural instinct is like pulling a tractor uphill with a prosthetic arm.

peace


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