# It Just Became Official!!!!



## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/robinson_041101.html

:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

how dare this s.o.b. wear mjs shoes !!! :upset: :sour:


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

It's all on Pax now!

No (more) excuses!


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

Are we going to retire Erob's sweater?


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

what a poop............he has a huge fred flinstone tatoo........:laugh:


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## Big Bully (May 7, 2004)

So now his contract is on waivers...so someone could claim him at his new contractual rate? How does that work?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>toros_locos</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Fred Flintstone tat suits him perfectly.

The shift-end whistle blows and its "Yabba Dabba Doo" down the dinosaur's back. That's E-Rob to a T.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

C'mon guys. Enough with the jabs at ERob. He's just a good kid with his heart in the right place. All he needs is a hug.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> C'mon guys. Enough with the jabs at ERob. He's just a good kid with his heart in the right place. All he needs is a hug.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Et tu, Jalen?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm sorry if this has been asked before but....

is our salary cap hit the same for the next 2 years... w/ the buyout?


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## HINrichPolice (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> I'm sorry if this has been asked before but....
> 
> is our salary cap hit the same for the next 2 years... w/ the buyout?


Unfortunately, yes. However, I'm not sure how our cap situation changes if someone picks him up off of waivers. Anybody know?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

While Erob never fit, people forget just how likable a person he is, as well as how compelling his story is. At the Bulls charity dinner last year, a dinner I am sure he didnt have to show up too, he showed up and was easily the most likable Bull. He took time to hang out with the kids and brought 20 inner city kids in for a free dinner. And his story is as amazing. He was homeless growing up in Flint Michigan, which was not a good place. He found his game, and worked his *** off, to become a legit NBA player with Charlotte as an undrafted free agent. He is an example of working hard, actually, and how it can get you what you want. The perception that he didnt work hard because he didnt stay late or come early is pretty dumb. What did he do while he was actually in the gym is most important. Rodman missed plenty of practice, but certainly wasnt lazy. Neither is Iverson. Say what you want about Erob, but he definetely wasnt the cancer that the Bulls painted him to be. I for one hope he finds a team that allows him to be what he is most effective as, a change of pace player off the bench that can hurt you if left alone.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> While Erob never fit, people forget just how likable a person he is, as well as how compelling his story is. At the Bulls charity dinner last year, a dinner I am sure he didnt have to show up too, he showed up and was easily the most likable Bull. He took time to hang out with the kids and brought 20 inner city kids in for a free dinner. And his story is as amazing. He was homeless growing up in Flint Michigan, which was not a good place. He found his game, and worked his *** off, to become a legit NBA player with Charlotte as an undrafted free agent. He is an example of working hard, actually, and how it can get you what you want. The perception that he didnt work hard because he didnt stay late or come early is pretty dumb. What did he do while he was actually in the gym is most important. Rodman missed plenty of practice, but certainly wasnt lazy. Neither is Iverson. Say what you want about Erob, but he definetely wasnt the cancer that the Bulls painted him to be. I for one hope he finds a team that allows him to be what he is most effective as, a change of pace player off the bench that can hurt you if left alone.


I for one hope he catches on to a team with an on staff podiatrist.


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## Electric Slim (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>remlover</b>!
> Are we going to retire Erob's sweater?


For a cool 14 mil!


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> While Erob never fit, people forget just how likable a person he is, as well as how compelling his story is. At the Bulls charity dinner last year, a dinner I am sure he didnt have to show up too, he showed up and was easily the most likable Bull. He took time to hang out with the kids and brought 20 inner city kids in for a free dinner. And his story is as amazing. He was homeless growing up in Flint Michigan, which was not a good place. He found his game, and worked his *** off, to become a legit NBA player with Charlotte as an undrafted free agent. He is an example of working hard, actually, and how it can get you what you want. The perception that he didnt work hard because he didnt stay late or come early is pretty dumb. What did he do while he was actually in the gym is most important. Rodman missed plenty of practice, but certainly wasnt lazy. Neither is Iverson. Say what you want about Erob, but he definetely wasnt the cancer that the Bulls painted him to be. I for one hope he finds a team that allows him to be what he is most effective as, a change of pace player off the bench that can hurt you if left alone.


Bravo, RLucas.

Hell, maybe all he does need is a hug. I dunno...this whole situation makes me feel uneasy. He accepted 4 MILLION dollars less then he would have made otherwise and he was always nice, funny, and approachable. Well, to anyone other than Bulls coaches...

We know nothing about the reasons he didn't fit in and it's not right to bash his character because Skiles benched him. I hope he signs on with another team and I hope he plays very, very well. I'm also glad the Bulls were able to rid themselves of the distraction because, as I say over and over again, it's CONSISTENT with their message. And consistency is admirable even if I would go about things differently.

Good luck ERob...and here's to a good season for both parties.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

If E-Rob was Rodman or Iverson I would let it slide.

All he had to do was what was expected of everyone on the team and he didn't come through, he is just a bag of **** to me and I hope he burns in hell.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

There will be no praising or making excuses for E-Slug while I'm around.

If you do, I will have Eddy Curry pummel your nutsack.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hustle</b>!
> If E-Rob was Rodman or Iverson I would let it slide.
> 
> All he had to do was what was expected of everyone on the team and he didn't come through, he is just a bag of **** to me and I hope he burns in hell.


arguably the dumbest comment made on this board since Curry52 used to hang out here.

Burn in hell? For what? He came when he had too and left when practice was over. How many practices did he miss? And what was the result of his "not working hard"? He was the Bulls second best player for a stretch there in Feb and early march, before mysteriously being benched. Look at the stat line, his production didnt get him benched, something else did. So its not like he wasnt working hard, no one knows what he did during the hours he was required to be there. The fact is all of his teammates support him, one guy didnt. That guy was Skiles. And rumor has had Skiles and Erob in some physical tangle, which led to this mess. 

Good luck to Erob. He isnt the bum that alot of guys in the NBA are. He is all class off the court and a bundle of untapped talent on it. He easily could be another Bull that we ask ourselves why couldnt that guy make it here?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I do agree that is ERob had the talent of a Rodman or an AI, we would be singing a different tune. Whether that's fair or not is another issue. Another thing is that AI and Rodman's games at least appear to be much more hardworking. I didn't think ERob looked lazy on the court, except after he pointed out that he didn't want to go to the rim to draw contact. So while his effort level on the court might have not been substandard, I certainly don't feel like he played with anywhere near the intensity of AI or Rodman. I mean, Rodman? Honestly? There's no comparison here. That guy was all over the place all the time and sacrificing his body whenever it would help the team. 

I think ERob may thrive on a team with a different culture. Then again, he may not. I do agree that knowing how the boards go, if he plays at any decent level anywhere else that we'll quickly have people here pining for him. I don't expect him to be missed as much as an Artest or Brand, however.

EDIT: At the end of the day, I still do believe that Eddie was told what he needed to do to succeed in a Bulls uniform and he consciously decided not to go along with it. The reason he might do better on a more laid-back team it twofold. First, they may reward minutes based solely on the ability to produce and not on other criteria that seem to matter on the Bulls like practice habits, work ethic, knowing the plays, etc. Second, no extra work outside of required practice time may be expected of him.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> While Erob never fit, people forget just how likable a person he is, as well as how compelling his story is. At the Bulls charity dinner last year, a dinner I am sure he didnt have to show up too, he showed up and was easily the most likable Bull. He took time to hang out with the kids and brought 20 inner city kids in for a free dinner. And his story is as amazing. He was homeless growing up in Flint Michigan, which was not a good place. He found his game, and worked his *** off, to become a legit NBA player with Charlotte as an undrafted free agent. He is an example of working hard, actually, and how it can get you what you want. The perception that he didnt work hard because he didnt stay late or come early is pretty dumb. What did he do while he was actually in the gym is most important. Rodman missed plenty of practice, but certainly wasnt lazy. Neither is Iverson. Say what you want about Erob, but he definetely wasnt the cancer that the Bulls painted him to be. I for one hope he finds a team that allows him to be what he is most effective as, a change of pace player off the bench that can hurt you if left alone.


:boohoo: 

It's unbelievable to me that there are still some on this board who are willing to defend Eddie Robinson.


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## KwaZulu (Jul 7, 2003)

If all ERob needs is a hug then lets send him a grizzly to hug


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## Kapono2Okafor (Oct 20, 2004)

i actually liked erob but because he was a phnomanal dunker not as the player lol


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## YearofDaBulls (Oct 20, 2004)

yeah he didnt play because skiles benched him, yeah right. He was benched even before skiles came on board. As far as I see it, he didnt do squat for this team.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> :boohoo:
> 
> It's unbelievable to me that there are still some on this board who are willing to defend Eddie Robinson.


Well, someone has to make sense of his actions. I doubt he was the devil incarnate who just wanted to steal humble angel Reinsdorf's money.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>YearofDaBulls</b>!
> yeah he didnt play because skiles benched him, yeah right. He was benched even before skiles came on board. As far as I see it, he didnt do squat for this team.


Look at the stats, not only did he play, he played well and then something mysterious happened. Please get your facts straight. Its easy to blame erob, but he was a POSITIVE contributor before his benching. Do people here want to win? Or would you rather see more Ronnie Duprees and Jared Reiners?


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He is all class off the court




......






> Robinson's contract calls for him to be paid $6.8 million this season and $7.3 million next season. The buyout would enable Robinson to play elsewhere, but he has told friends he wants to stick it to the Bulls because of the way coach Scott Skiles sat him down for 28 games last reason for what Robinson calls "no good reason.''
> 
> In essence, it appears Robinson does not want to play for anybody. He is content to sit and get paid, a position that might force the Bulls to cut him and eat his salary.




Consumate professional.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The 6ft Hurdle</b>!
> 
> Well, someone has to make sense of his actions. I doubt he was the devil incarnate who just wanted to steal humble angel Reinsdorf's money.


If you're looking for an explanation, your description is unrealistic. Reinsdorf need not be a "humble angel" in order for ERob to be motivated not to work. Maybe he doesn't want to do what's expected of him. Maybe he was content to cash his checks, realizing he was making enough money to be set for the rest of his life. Maybe he hated the coaches. Maybe it was some of all these things. I just don't get it when people act like it's unfathomable that the explanation is something besides team incompetence.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Look at the stats, not only did he play, he played well and then something mysterious happened. Please get your facts straight. Its easy to blame erob, but he was a POSITIVE contributor before his benching. Do people here want to win? Or would you rather see more Ronnie Duprees and Jared Reiners?


I am sick of feeling like we're a developmental team. At the same time, I just don't see ERob as having a positive impact on this team. He did some things well on the floor when offered the opportunity. He did some things not so well. The reason the Bulls aren't a championship team isn't ERob. ERob does not equal winning. I'm not sure how I feel about letting him off the hook from a financial perspective, but I'm not losing sleep over the fact that he's not on the team.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> 
> 
> I am sick of feeling like we're a developmental team. At the same time, I just don't see ERob as having a positive impact on this team. He did some things well on the floor when offered the opportunity. He did some things not so well. The reason the Bulls aren't a championship team isn't ERob. ERob does not equal winning. I'm not sure how I feel about letting him off the hook from a financial perspective, but I'm not losing sleep over the fact that he's not on the team.


The question I ask is why was EROB not a success here?

Is he really that much of a bum?
He was good in Charlotte. We'll see how he does on his new team (if any). He certainly fought through a tremendous amount of adversity to reach the NBA. That shows he has some type of heart. 

Why did the relationship get so ugly?

It seems like this is another case where, for whatever reason, a talented player was run out of town.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

It's about freaking time. What a waste of athleticism and money.


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## MiSTa iBN (Jun 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> The question I ask is why was EROB not a success here?
> ...



He had heart to go get that money


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> Is he really that much of a bum?
> He was good in Charlotte. We'll see how he does on his new team (if any). He certainly fought through a tremendous amount of adversity to reach the NBA. That shows he has some type of heart.
> ...


He averaged 7 ppg in Charlotte. I don't know if that is "good." Don't get me wrong, ERob has shown flashes here and there, but he's never been truly "good." Also, his shooting percentage declined once he went to Chicago, although it still remained higher than lots of others. He wasn't particularly great at getting dimes or boards. I think sometimes people overinflate what kind of production this guy had.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MiSTa iBN</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> He had heart to go get that money


Yah, maybe that's it.

Or maybe he is just a baby and once the $$$ was locked up he didn't want to take **** from the “powers that be.”

If there were no guaranteed contracts in the NBA, I bet EROB kicks *** the last few years.


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## lou4gehrig (Aug 1, 2003)

*hmmmm...*

despite erob's tough background and life...he has made it where he is mostly on athleticism...he is an amazing run / jump athlete and this is how he has carried himself throughout his career...i'm sure he is a really nice person and what not...most people / players are...thats to his credit...now even dennis rodman used to take in homeless people and help people out...so comparing him to iverson or dennis rodman is crazy...iverson and rodman would give their soul to win and for the team...erob is the complete opposite player...iverson plays hurt...takes hard fouls...rodman used to guard shaq and karl malone...much stronger and tougher players...with erob is all about desire...if he had 1/10 the heart of iverson he'd be a very good player in this league...he really had a chance to be a leader on a young team...but he let us down...simple as that.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Where did I compare Erob to AI or Rodman as a player? The difference is that AI and Rodman miss practice regularly, while Erob always made it to practice. But Erob is lazy? So what if he didnt put in an extra hour or so? What mattered was what he did when he was on the court. And when he was on the court for a good stretch last season, he was the clubs second best player. He even got praise from Skiles for his midrange game and defense no less! and now he is enemy #1. Certain people on this board and in this clubs managemnet would rather win 25 games and have gym rats rather then truly talented players who can get by on limited practice and compete. They are not mutually consistent with one another. THe Bulls as a team rarely had 100% total practices, and certainly neither did the Lakers. They are trying to follow the mold of Detroit, or so they say? Well that is a joke. First off, you dont get Skiles to be your Larry Brown and teams like Detroit take chances on other "cancers" like Rasheed. Is Erob Rasheed? No. But he was a very good player on a team in Charlotte that is light years better then our team now. Its the coach and managements job to not try to fit a player like that into the system, rather then alienate a guy in the press for PRACTICING AND GETTING ALONG WITH ALL HIS TEAMMATES. No one said anything when Kirk missed a game last year for getting sick. Drew Gooden strongly led the press to believe that they went out partying the night before, even going to say that he doubted it was food poisoning since they ate from the same cut of steak. Whether its true or not, who cares? But thats to point out you just find what you want in a player no matter what. Lets tell the world Erob is lazy cause he comes to practice on time and leaves when its over! Well frankly, thats better then Iverson, Shaq, and alot of other big name players who have never been called lazy, yet regularly miss practice. Its a clear double standard. So go ahead and blame Erob for all of our troubles, but in the end, he wasnt the Bulls problem, just todays scapegoat. Tomorrow, Eddy Curry


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> . No one said anything when Kirk missed a game last year for getting sick. Drew Gooden strongly led the press to believe that they went out partying the night before, even going to say that he doubted it was food poisoning since they ate from the same cut of steak. Whether its true or not, who cares? But thats to point out you just find what you want in a player no matter what.


You sure have a Kirk Hinrich obsession.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I think I'm trying to acknowledge the double standard. ERob, despite arguments to the contrary, has not been "very good." At least not for any significant period of time. 
At the end of the day, if you are a superstar, you can get away with more. Rlucas, all you seem to care about is whether people produce. I can understand that viewpoint. But you can't only care about what happens on the court and then care about the double standard, too. The double standard is the reason that only production matters. Lazy superstars get to be lazy. Lazy rank and file players get into trouble with their teams sometimes.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> I think I'm trying to acknowledge the double standard. ERob, despite arguments to the contrary, has not been "very good." At least not for any significant period of time.
> At the end of the day, if you are a superstar, you can get away with more. Rlucas, all you seem to care about is whether people produce. I can understand that viewpoint. But you can't only care about what happens on the court and then care about the double standard, too. The double standard is the reason that only production matters. Lazy superstars get to be lazy. Lazy rank and file players get into trouble with their teams sometimes.


But where is he lazy? When there was a practice, he was there, on time. He did what he had to do. Many guys dont show up, or make up injuries to not practice. There is no evidence Erob did that until his relationship was beyond repair. And that was long after being labeled as lazy for doing nothing more then showing up on time. How is that lazy?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I don't know, frankly. I wasn't there to see what was going on behind the scenes. It always seemed to me that the nagging injuries seemed a bit dubious, but I might just be a cynic. I would ask, how come only ERob gets in trouble for being lazy and not anyone else on the team?

Also, I totally disagree with the notion that you can somehow excuse Eddie's behavior b/c the relationship was "beyond repair" at that point. You are under contract. Show up, shut up, and play. It may seem overly simplistic, but you've got to play the hand you're dealt, like it or not. I've got no tolerance for petty temper tantrums.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> I don't know, frankly. I wasn't there to see what was going on behind the scenes. It always seemed to me that the nagging injuries seemed a bit dubious, but I might just be a cynic. I would ask, how come only ERob gets in trouble for being lazy and not anyone else on the team?
> 
> Also, I totally disagree with the notion that you can somehow excuse Eddie's behavior b/c the relationship was "beyond repair" at that point. You are under contract. Show up, shut up, and play. It may seem overly simplistic, but you've got to play the hand you're dealt, like it or not. I've got no tolerance for petty temper tantrums.


Lets remember, the Bulls asked him to NOT SHOW UP. Not the other way around. Whether he was hurt or not, who knows. But he was producing when he got benched. And he himself, and his teammates (antonio davis backed him on this I believe), questioned the motive of his benching. Lets remember, its the job of the Bulls to win games, and Erob, while not a world beater, was the Bulls second best player for a decent stretch of games. So why sit him? are we officially in the business of losing?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> are we officially in the business of losing?


Well, it feels like about 28 seasons in a row at this point, so maybe...


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, it feels like about 28 seasons in a row at this point, so maybe...


It certainly does. We are fast approaching a decade. Doesnt that make anyone sick. My father is a season ticket holder and there was a promise for the playoffs this year, but that seems to be eased away now. I think Pax did the right thing by going with youth. But the parallels between 99 and 04 are scary. Krause went with youth and a looking at a summer that had a lot of cap room only to come away with more youth and basically no FAs because of the CBA. Now Pax has built with youth and looking at cap space next summer but with a CBA coming up, and there is no telling what that rule will bring.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> 
> 
> If you're looking for an explanation, your description is unrealistic. Reinsdorf need not be a "humble angel" in order for ERob to be motivated not to work. Maybe he doesn't want to do what's expected of him. Maybe he was content to cash his checks, realizing he was making enough money to be set for the rest of his life. Maybe he hated the coaches. Maybe it was some of all these things. I just don't get it when people act like it's unfathomable that the explanation is something besides team incompetence.


Ermm, that was exaggeration. I did not defend E-Rob at all. 

It's not as much excuses as much as it is trying to understand why he acted the way he did.

All I said is that someone needs to make sense of his actions. And R and K are doing that pretty well. People on here want to make it seem like E-Rob has something permanently wrong with him like he has something . As with Jamal, they don't want to see E-Rob's actions as reactions to their own situations. 

I think part of this arises from this viewing of athletes as heroes --- people want to see their guys as having traits rather than as human beings playing a game. There are the villains with good traits and the heroes with the good traits. I view these guys as human beings simply representing where I'm from. 

But the bottomline is, a lot of fans just don't want to see that there is actually some logic to why he did things.


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## realbullsfaninLA (Jan 8, 2003)

It amazes me how people go to great lengths to defend ERob.Their main arguement being that he produced when he was on the court,so he shouldn't HAVE to do extra work.While I vehemnetly disagree with that logic,I can rationally see how some agree with Erob on that issue.

What is absolutely inexcusable to me is that he REFUSED to drive the ball to the hole saying that he "might get hurt".His midrange jumper was successful (albeit moderately imo) so he figured he shouldn't have to take the ball to the basket.That shows how much heart he has.Not to mention how many countless times Erob would come up with phantom injuries throughout the year.I specifically remember an incident when the Bulls played the Magic and TMAC torched him for some insane amount.We played them in a rematch shortly thereafter,and EROB was mysteriously hurt for the game wearing one of his trademark sweaters.He didn't want to be the scapegoat again for getting torched.Funny thing happened though,we actually one the rematch.

I don't know what makes EROB tick,but that guy is gutless.Even if you have a problem with coaches and management,you have a loyalty to your teammates.Not to mention that you are getting paid millions of dollars to play a game.Be professional.The fact that EROB reportedly told friends that he wouldn't agree to a buyout because he wanted to "stick it" to the Bulls tells you all you need to know about him.He's a malingerer.

But I blame Skiles a little as well.Skiles should have had a closed door session with him and tried to convince him to buy into his philosophy.Skiles was his head coach.I think there is some validity to what Jalen said about Erob needing a hug.As juvenile as that sounds,some players NEED to be coddled.This is one of the characteristics that Phil Jackson was good at.Skiles needs to learn this skill.I don't expect him to turn into a "Zen Master",but he can't have a "my way or the highway" attitude in EVERY single instance.


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## ogbullzfan (Mar 9, 2004)

Props to you Rlucas for having the juevos to stand up to about 99% of this board. I hapen to agree with your perspective on EROB. I kind of view his situation as my boss mandating me to work overtime or my job would be threatened.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ogbullzfan</b>!
> Props to you Rlucas for having the juevos to stand up to about 99% of this board. I hapen to agree with your perspective on EROB. I kind of view his situation as my boss mandating me to work overtime or my job would be threatened.


You and many others here do not understand what the word "team" means.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> You and many others here do not understand what the word "team" means.


and you clearly dont understand the meaning of the word "winning". Youd rather have 12 saps who practice hard and go out and lose by 20 night after night. Your anti Jamal, Erob, Curry rhetoric is pretty old indeed


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## Chicago N VA (Oct 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> and you clearly dont understand the meaning of the word "winning". Youd rather have 12 saps who practice hard and go out and lose by 20 night after night. Your anti Jamal, Erob, Curry rhetoric is pretty old indeed


I am a 100% with you on this!!!

There is a lot of that anti-?, going on around here.

12 guys with no-talent who practices hard.... will get you nowhere as an organization.

Pax has his guys in here and we will watch them get pummelled this season.

(I hope I am wrong, but were no better than we were in 98, 6yrs later)


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Robinson's Tale a Shipwreck*

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...ov02,1,5736121.story?coll=cs-basketball-print



> Hours after his buyout from the Bulls became official, Eddie Robinson sounded giddy in a Monday night phone interview.
> 
> "I'm happy to be out of the situation because I'm not the person they perceive me as," Robinson said. "I'm here to play basketball. And I'll prove that when I get on the next team."





> Robinson liked his pregame and post-practice routines of minimal shooting. Management asked him to work harder. Robinson liked his off-season workouts to be solo at 7 a.m. Management wanted him to work with the coaching staff.
> 
> A postseason meeting last April between general manager John Paxson, Robinson and his representatives supposedly cleared the air. Management even talked over the summer about Robinson seeing minutes at shooting guard because of the Bulls' diminutive backcourt.
> 
> ...


----------



## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

We Bulls are going to be a loser as long as some people are still willing to root for losers like Erob, Jamal and in some degree Eddy.

I don't care what rational they come up with. Loser is a loser.

And for rlucas, why are you so against management and always for all those losers? For a guy all ofr winning , you tend to put yourself into the corner of losers. I mean to a degree I can understand your inclination toward Jamal, but Erob, my God.

To me he is a biggest disappointment next to Jamal after MJ era and biggest mistake by Kraus second to Brand trade.

Again, with Jamal and Erob gone, GOOD RIDDANCE.


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## Chicago N VA (Oct 31, 2003)

23 - 59 = Losers

That includes: Players, Coaches, Management and Ownership!

The record speaks for itself.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> and you clearly dont understand the meaning of the word "winning". Youd rather have 12 saps who practice hard and go out and lose by 20 night after night. Your anti Jamal, Erob, Curry rhetoric is pretty old indeed


Where did we go WITH the players YOU DEFEND????

Frigging nowhere! And who says these kids that we have now, Hinrich, Duhon, Deng, Chapu etc, who says they aren't talented?
Is it impossible to have hard working, TALENTED players?

I dont think so, and neither does Paxson.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Where did we go WITH the players YOU DEFEND????
> ...


:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Where did we go WITH the players YOU DEFEND????
> ...


I rest my case. You would rather lose with hardworking players then win with talented players who might not work as hard. There is only one ubertalented player on this roster, and his name is Eddy Curry. You like dogging him. Watch him become a 10 time allstar with some other team. Your rhetoric of losing the right way is very, very old. And often times, so off base that its laighable


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lgtwins</b>!
> We Bulls are going to be a loser as long as some people are still willing to root for losers like Erob, Jamal and in some degree Eddy.
> 
> I don't care what rational they come up with. Loser is a loser.
> ...


Erob proved that he could play with winners in Charlotte. He was clearly misused here. And he isnt the ******* you guys make him out to be


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Where did we go WITH the players YOU DEFEND????
> ...


Jamal, eRob, Jalen, Tyson and Eddy? That team was awesome!! Oh wait, no it was not. :heart:


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Jamal, eRob, Jalen, Tyson and Eddy? That team was awesome!! Oh wait, no it was not. :heart:


That team was 33% BETTER then Hinrich, Crawford, Dupree, Davis and Curry.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I rest my case. You would rather lose with hardworking players then win with talented players who might not work as hard. There is only one ubertalented player on this roster, and his name is Eddy Curry. You like dogging him. Watch him become a 10 time allstar with some other team. Your rhetoric of losing the right way is very, very old. And often times, so off base that its laighable


Why didn't we win more games last year?


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Why didn't we win more games last year?


Bad start, injuries, conditioning, poor coaching, bad trade, no chemistry, too much turnover, take your pick.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> That team was 33% BETTER then Hinrich, Crawford, Dupree, Davis and Curry.


:laugh: Okay, you win. I'm not sweating the 33%. However, if the Bulls win 30.5 games this year, can we celebrate that we are 33% better than last years team?! Go Bulls


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh btw?

"There is only one ubertalented player on this roster, and his name is Eddy Curry. "

Where in the hell am I dogging Eddy Curry? I want nothing more than to see him do well.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Why didn't we win more games last year?


The bulls went your direction (trading Jalen and Marshall, not playing Erob, not playing Fizer) and lost nearly 30% more games. Where you come from, thats called improvement? The Bulls were headed in the right direction, and might be again. But there is no such thing as losing the right way? Yet, the team assembled was far worse last year then the one with all the bums. Proving my point, talent will always beat hard work in basketball. Your rhetoric of this is better then that is just beyond conversation. All we know about you, Shinky, is that you would rather win 23 games then 30, as long as those guys are the right kind of guys. Well whippee doooo.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Bad start, injuries, conditioning, poor coaching, bad trade, no chemistry, too much turnover, take your pick.


Ok. Now. What would have solved most if not all of those problems?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> Oh btw?
> 
> "There is only one ubertalented player on this roster, and his name is Eddy Curry. "
> ...


Sing me a river. You call him fat and lazy like everyone else. And he will make you look very foolish for that.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Sing me a river. You call him fat and lazy like everyone else. And he will make you look very foolish for that.


Now your making stuff up, man. I have questioned his dedication and conditioning at times. But who didn't? Those that understand basketball sure as hell didn't.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Now your making stuff up, man. I have questioned his dedication and conditioning at times. But who didn't? Those that understand basketball sure as hell didn't.


at times? Try all the time. I guess he was out of shape and lazy when he was the NBAs 3rd best center to end 2 seasons ago, leading the league in field goal % and averaging close to 20 a night. This rhetoric of him not being in shape, or lazy, is just stupid. And frankly, your rants are dumb. Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows Curry is neither a good rebounder or defender. Its not like he isnt trying, he just isnt. Live with it. But what he brings to the game is a low post game for a 21 year old that is so far ahead of his peers. But half brains like you and Sam Smith ride him for being what you want him to be, instead of letting him succeed as he is. But with people like you, its the blind leading the blind. Curry needs to get into shape. Why? Cause Skiles says so. I doubt Skiles even watched that game 2 years ago where a "an out of shape, and undedicated" Eddy Curry scored 24 and held Shaq to 10.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok. Now. What would have solved most if not all of those problems?


Keeping a core of players together longer than 1 season, having a competent coach and GM that make sure players do what they are suppossed to in the offseason. A Orginization that realizes that they need to support young potential with proven veteran play. All of those things for starters.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Keeping a core of players together longer than 1 season, having a competent coach and GM that make sure players do what they are suppossed to in the offseason. A Orginization that realizes that they need to support young potential with proven veteran play. All of those things for starters.


We have a good coach ACE. The main reason we sucked last season, is that players did not work hard to improve themselves. That is the main reason we sucked.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> at times? Try all the time. I guess he was out of shape and lazy when he was the NBAs 3rd best center to end 2 seasons ago, leading the league in field goal % and averaging close to 20 a night. This rhetoric of him not being in shape, or lazy, is just stupid. And frankly, your rants are dumb. Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows Curry is neither a good rebounder or defender. Its not like he isnt trying, he just isnt. Live with it. But what he brings to the game is a low post game for a 21 year old that is so far ahead of his peers. But half brains like you and Sam Smith ride him for being what you want him to be, instead of letting him succeed as he is. But with people like you, its the blind leading the blind. Curry needs to get into shape. Why? Cause Skiles says so. I doubt Skiles even watched that game 2 years ago where a "an out of shape, and undedicated" Eddy Curry scored 24 and held Shaq to 10.


Are you going to sit there and tell me that Eddy Curry was in shape? Even HE admits this is the first time he's been in shape in his career. Come on man, either make a valid point or get the hell off my back.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Keeping a core of players together longer than 1 season, having a competent coach and GM that make sure players do what they are suppossed to in the offseason. A Orginization that realizes that they need to support young potential with proven veteran play. All of those things for starters.


The Bulls went from 20-30 wins and then had a rough start to the season. I mean, 20 games should be enough to fire the coach and trade away half the teams players! What people dont realize is that the Bulls statistically werent any better after the moves last year, with an easier schedule. Yet we should laud Skiles and curse Cartwright? ok

However, I like Paxs moves. The Crawford thing clearly didnt work, and I am not throwing in the towel on Gordon. But he has done a reasonable job. But some people trust Pax implicitly with every decision he makes or in the case of this team, doesnt make. For the Bulls to get much better, is going to require a change in coaching. Publicly bashing players and running sets that are so simple is going to do nothing for this team. This team needs an established coach who will require respect from the very get go. No more asst coaches and guys that no one else in the NBA would even consider


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> We have a good coach ACE. The main reason we sucked last season, is that players did not work hard to improve themselves. That is the main reason we sucked.


I don't know. I don't think Skiles is as good as you give him credit for. Sure, he is a better coach than Floyd or Cartwright but far from some sort of panacea. I know for a fact that some players worked hard. If players didn't work hard why didn't management push them to? Thats what they are there for.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know. I don't think Skiles is as good as you give him credit for. Sure, he is a better coach than Floyd or Cartwright but far from some sort of panacea. I know for a fact that some players worked hard. If players didn't work hard why didn't management push them to? Thats what they are there for.


That's exactly what Pax and Skiles have done, ACE.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you going to sit there and tell me that Eddy Curry was in shape? Even HE admits this is the first time he's been in shape in his career. Come on man, either make a valid point or get the hell off my back.


Is Shaq in shape? Or was Barkley? Its overrated as is your rhetoric. Do you even watch basketball? Did you watch the Bulls 2 seasons ago? If you didnt, then frankly your excused and we will know you just follow whatever Skiles says. If you did, then your clearly blind. I mean, look at Currys stats from Feb on. Not bad for a player out of shape, undedicated and 19 years old. But according to you, not good enough. Bring on Jared Reiner, atleast he works hard!  

As for Skiles being a good coach? There was over 20 head coaching vacancies in the NBA since he quit in Phoenix. How many interviews did Scott Skiles get? The answer is zero. I guess he was a coach in hot demand! But jeez, he knew Eddy Currys life of failure 10 days after knowing him so we should trust all that is Skiles.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> That's exactly what Pax and Skiles have done, ACE.


As well as get rid of a lot of talented players in the process.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know. I don't think Skiles is as good as you give him credit for. Sure, he is a better coach than Floyd or Cartwright but far from some sort of panacea. I know for a fact that some players worked hard. If players didn't work hard why didn't management push them to? Thats what they are there for.


Is he better then Cartwrong? I dont think so. Cartwrongs numbers with the Bulls are far better then Skiles numbers with the Bulls. And Cartwrong did oversee a 50% increase in wins, while the Greatest coach on earth oversaw a 33% decline. Looks like Skiles is the greatest coach ever. Why? Cause he gets our kids to lose the "right way".


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Is Shaq in shape? Or was Barkley? Its overrated as is your rhetoric. Do you even watch basketball? Did you watch the Bulls 2 seasons ago? If you didnt, then frankly your excused and we will know you just follow whatever Skiles says. If you did, then your clearly blind. I mean, look at Currys stats from Feb on. Not bad for a player out of shape, undedicated and 19 years old. But according to you, not good enough. Bring on Jared Reiner, atleast he works hard!
> ...


You enjoy insulting me, dont you? It shows your IQ level and quite frankly, it takes away any type of credit you may have. However little it may be.

What the hell is so wrong with wanting players that are good and work hard?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> As well as get rid of a lot of talented players in the process.


That's debateable. He has gotten rid of talented but highly overpaid players.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Also;

The main point of this thread was about E-Slob.

Dan Bernstein on the Score just said that when the stories come out about how much of a slug this clown was, you will not believe it. He cannot go into right now, but the stories will come out soon enough.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> You enjoy insulting me, dont you? It shows your IQ level and quite frankly, it takes away any type of credit you may have. However little it may be.
> ...


jared reiner is sure to lead us very far. Just as ronnie dupree was. To totally shun talented players for grinders is stupid. And that is your rhetoric. And its stale. I could care less who here listens to me or not, I have an opinion that is shared by some. Everyone wants good players who play hard. But the guys we have now dont know the first thing about either. So lets support the purging of talent for players who would be very lucky to make a roster in the NBA. Why not look at a player like JR Rider? Why not look at a player like Qyntel Woods? Because they dont know how to lose the "right way". Your way dooms us for alot of losing, and the ceiling being at mediocrity. But keep preaching brother, there is no better way to kill brain cells


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Is he better then Cartwrong? I dont think so. Cartwrongs numbers with the Bulls are far better then Skiles numbers with the Bulls. And Cartwrong did oversee a 50% increase in wins, while the Greatest coach on earth oversaw a 33% decline. Looks like Skiles is the greatest coach ever. Why? Cause he gets our kids to lose the "right way".


Yeah but by the same token, when Cartwright was the coach they came back at the beginning of last season woefully unprepared and unconditioned for the most part. Thats something a coach has to have his finger on. In Skiles defense, at least everyone is conditioned to start the season this year.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> jared reiner is sure to lead us very far. Just as ronnie dupree was. To totally shun talented players for grinders is stupid. And that is your rhetoric. And its stale. I could care less who here listens to me or not, I have an opinion that is shared by some. Everyone wants good players who play hard. But the guys we have now dont know the first thing about either. So lets support the purging of talent for players who would be very lucky to make a roster in the NBA. Why not look at a player like JR Rider? Why not look at a player like Qyntel Woods? Because they dont know how to lose the "right way". Your way dooms us for alot of losing, and the ceiling being at mediocrity. But keep preaching brother, there is no better way to kill brain cells


I suggest you stop making stuff up. WHERE HAVE I SAID ANYTHING ABOUT JARED REINER TAKING US FAR? I haven't. Your assuming that I feel that way, and you would be wrong if you felt like that. And just to clue you in on something? We DO have some TALENTED PLAYERS THAT WORK HARD. Deng, Chapu, Hinrich, Gordon (hopefully he gets his shooting eye soon). We have talented players that grind. Tyson is a grinder, he's just so damn skinny. Hopefully Curry get's it now, and understands how hard he needs to constantly work. 

I DO NOT LIKE LOSING. Get that through your head. Right now.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah but by the same token, when Cartwright was the coach they came back at the beginning of last season woefully unprepared and unconditioned for the most part. Thats something a coach has to have his finger on. In Skiles defense, at least everyone is conditioned to start the season this year.


Again I ask, was an unconditioned Eddy Curry a worse player then the light and conditioned Curry? Cartwrong didnt bash his players in the press and atleast had a pulse on how to make the bigs succeed. Skiles doesnt have the first clue. Scott just says, he cant play in the second half. Well thats intelligent. Why not run him a play or 2 and get him into the game? 

its the coaches job to make the most of what he has. Skiles wants conformers. And that is why not one team offered him an interview since he quit on a Suns team where the players really didnt like him. 

As for unconditioned vs conditioned players. Hassell and Crawford broke the Berto record for workouts last year. Hassell was cut, which I agreed with actually. The other guy wasnt rewarded for his hardwork and is one of the boards Skiles backers main targets for not working hard and not being able to lose the "right way" I am dying to hear the explanation on that one.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I suggest you stop making stuff up. WHERE HAVE I SAID ANYTHING ABOUT JARED REINER TAKING US FAR? I haven't. Your assuming that I feel that way, and you would be wrong if you felt like that. And just to clue you in on something? We DO have some TALENTED PLAYERS THAT WORK HARD. Deng, Chapu, Hinrich, Gordon (hopefully he gets his shooting eye soon). We have talented players that grind. Tyson is a grinder, he's just so damn skinny. Hopefully Curry get's it now, and understands how hard he needs to constantly work.
> ...


Talented players? Of the 4 guys you mentioned, not one would start for half of the teams in the NBA. Tyson would probably as a 5. Curry, the guy that most of this board will point fingers at now that Erob is gone, is the only guy who would. But he is out of shape, undedicated, lazy, dumb..........................


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"Again I ask, was an unconditioned Eddy Curry a worse player then the light and conditioned Curry? "

Did Eddy Curry help us when he couldn't run the floor and keep up with the rest of the team? Remember that? Curry BEGGING Skiles to take him out of the game because he was totally gassed.
And then Skiles needed to work out with him for MONTHS before he was able to even work on his game. It's things like that that have set this mans progress back. Dont you understand that?

Eddy is talented, no doubt. But he's not talented enough to be like Shaq and rely on that talent and be out of shape.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

And just so we all understand exactly what your saying here.

You, Rlucas, are defending Eddie Robinson, and you are saying that it is ok for Eddy Curry to be out of shape. This is what your basically saying.

And you question MY baksetball IQ?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> "Again I ask, was an unconditioned Eddy Curry a worse player then the light and conditioned Curry? "
> 
> Did Eddy Curry help us when he couldn't run the floor and keep up with the rest of the team? Remember that? Curry BEGGING Skiles to take him out of the game because he was totally gassed.
> ...


and you accuse me of twisting the facts? Thats pretty funny now

Were you there when Curry cried uncle to Skiles to take him out? I dont recall Curry ever saying that he wanted to be taken out. Oh and Curry needed to work out for MONTHS before he could work on his game? Oh thats a good one. 

Again, do you watch basketball and the Bulls? Curry, the fat, lazy, undedicated, Eddy Curry, the spring before was an allstar. Do you want to argue with that? And according to Skiles, that allstar wasnt in shape. Well where has Skiles gotten Curry too now that the fat ******* has slimmed down? Oh thats right, we might be trading Curry for someones trash. Its the coaches job to tap talent. If you think Skiles has, then that shows the half twit that you are.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> and you accuse me of twisting the facts? Thats pretty funny now
> ...


OH IT MOST CERTAINLY HAPPENED! Curry was looking to Skiles and he was Begging him to come out, and Skiles was ignoring him! I WATCH THE GAMES! Do YOU? And Skiles MOST CERTAINLY had to work out with Curry for months. IT HAPPENED!


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

I honestly cannot believe that your even posting this garbage!


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'm somewhere in between the two of you as far as the topic of Curry goes. I will say, however, that I find it somewhat dubious that Curry's conditioning was the most important issue of the day while his skill set was rarely mentioned. He did need to get into better shape, but even more so, he needed tutelage on help defense and rebounding technique, along with a continued refining of his post game and recognizing double teams. Was getting him into shape so important that there was no time left for anything else? I mean, marathon runners are in great condition but that doesn't mean they can play basketball (ridiculous example, I know). rlucas is probably right that Eddy will never be a tenacious defender or rebounder, but I'd at least like to see him get to the point where he's not an outright liability.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> And just so we all understand exactly what your saying here.
> 
> You, Rlucas, are defending Eddie Robinson, and you are saying that it is ok for Eddy Curry to be out of shape. This is what your basically saying.
> ...


Was Erob lazy? He came too every practice. he put his time in. and he was well liked by his teammates, and did as much in the community as any Bull. Yet according to you, and some others, he could burn in hell. 

And again, Curry the year before averaged these numbers while out of shape. 
Feb 19.6 mpg 12.3 ppg .642 4.9 rpg
Mar 28.6 17.4 ppg .579 6.7 rpg
Apr 31.8 20.3 656 6.5
So was he much better in shape? This shows you that your boy Skiles hasnt helped Curry in the least bit. Thats called improvement. Thats called talent. And this proves that you have no idea what your talking about.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> I honestly cannot believe that your even posting this garbage!


After Skiles had to work with Curry FOR MONTHS, is he a better player? The stats prove no. 

Let me guess, Curry came over to you and said, I had to tell Skiles to take me out. And i am in such terrible shape that I cant even work on fundamentals. This is a great example of twisting facts. I am looking for a link that has Curry saying take me out coach. 

Its ok to make things up to prove your point. We all know you live in fantasy land anyway. here in the real world, the coach is responsible for making the players better, particularly 20 year old kids who happens to be a good person with a ton of talent. Has Skiles done that? Absolutely not and the stats prove it. Proving that he could be the worlds most in shape person and the coach still doesnt have the right sets in for him to succeed. Lets blame Curry for that!


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Was Erob lazy? He came too every practice. he put his time in. and he was well liked by his teammates, and did as much in the community as any Bull. Yet according to you, and some others, he could burn in hell.
> ...


Has the season started yet? No. So shut the hell up!


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"Let me guess, Curry came over to you and said, I had to tell Skiles to take me out. And i am in such terrible shape that I cant even work on fundamentals. "

Redd Kerr and Dore said it during the broadcast. "Eddy is gassed, and Skiles is ignoring him" I believe were the exact words they used.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> I'm somewhere in between the two of you as far as the topic of Curry goes. I will say, however, that I find it somewhat dubious that Curry's conditioning was the most important issue of the day while his skill set was rarely mentioned. He did need to get into better shape, but even more so, he needed tutelage on help defense and rebounding technique, along with a continued refining of his post game and recognizing double teams. Was getting him into shape so important that there was no time left for anything else? I mean, marathon runners are in great condition but that doesn't mean they can play basketball (ridiculous example, I know). rlucas is probably right that Eddy will never be a tenacious defender or rebounder, but I'd at least like to see him get to the point where he's not an outright liability.


I'm with you. However, there have been players who've come out in the past commending Skiles knowledge of the game and his ability to teach. Crawford even said last season it was 'scary how much Skiles knew' about the game. Its fair to believe that Skiles has done his share of teaching. Now only if anyone is listening.... hmm


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Has the season started yet? No. So shut the hell up!


Someone cant defend Skiles now! Oh oh oh. Now someone is exposed

Just so you can see Currys stats as a fat lazy player who had a coach who knew how to make him succeed:

Feb 19.6 mpg 12.3 ppg .642 4.9 rpg
Mar 28.6 17.4 ppg .579 6.7 rpg
Apr 31.8 20.3 656 6.5

Enjoy looking at that stat line and coming up with some fantasy land rhetoric on how Skiles has made Curry a better player. Just maybe, its not the players, but the coach?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Someone cant defend Skiles now! Oh oh oh. Now someone is exposed
> ...


Actually, your helping MY argument! Didn't his numbers improve as the season went on? How about his minutes per game? Could it be that he finally was in good enough shape that he could FINALLY play more?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm with you. However, there have been players who've come out in the past commending Skiles knowledge of the game and his ability to teach. Crawford even said last season it was 'scary how much Skiles knew' about the game. Its fair to believe that Skiles has done his share of teaching. Now only if anyone is listening.... hmm


What do you expect him to say? If you dont kiss Skiles butt, you dont play. Ask Erob. Just for Shinky, here are Erobs stats before the mysterious benching. 
Numbers for February 27.5 46-88 .523 1-2 .500 10-12 .833 1.0 0.1 1.7 1.4 0.3 2.0 2.3 1.5 10.3 

Jamal hasnt had nice things to say about him now. And outside of Penny, who was his teammate for a year in Orlando, and Gugliotta, no one has anything good to say about him. If he knew so much about the game, you would think he would have one on ATLEAST ONE INTERVIEW for the over 20 head coaching jobs that were in the NBA from the time he quit to the time he came to Chicago. The fact is, Chicago was his first interview since he quit? Why? Cause people knew he wasnt that great a coach. heck, the Bulls didnt even interview anyone else/


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, your helping MY argument! Didn't his numbers improve as the season went on? How about his minutes per game? Could it be that he finally was in good enough shape that he could FINALLY play more?


No according to Skiles, Curry has never been in good shape in his entire life. Which I am sure Skiles would know considering he hung out with Curry since Curry was born  

Curry basically didnt play at all from Nov-Jan, even recording a DNP or 2. So its not like he played himself into shape. Therefore proving my argument, with some players, you need to have the right sets for the player to succeed. And you need the right mind set. If you think Skiles has done a good job with Curry by calling him out of shape, and not applauding Curry for outscoring his counterpart, but to rip him for reboundng and defense, then by all means do it. But know the facts, Curry regressed under your boy. And Curry has more talent then anyone on this roster. its the coaches obligation to make it work


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> What do you expect him to say? If you dont kiss Skiles butt, you dont play. Ask Erob. Just for Shinky, here are Erobs stats before the mysterious benching.
> ...


Uhh okay. Jamal said that quote w/in the first two weeks of Skiles arrival. SKiles was the one who gave Jamal extended minutes at the 2, often trotting out Kirk and Jamal in the same backcourt... something BC was unwilling to do.

What has Jamal said negatively about Skiles? Maybe taken a jab at management... but I've heard nothing about the coaching.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Again I ask, was an unconditioned Eddy Curry a worse player then the light and conditioned Curry? Cartwrong didnt bash his players in the press and atleast had a pulse on how to make the bigs succeed. Skiles doesnt have the first clue. Scott just says, he cant play in the second half. Well thats intelligent. Why not run him a play or 2 and get him into the game?
> ...


I think we have to reserve judgement since the season hasn't even started yet. It stands to reason that Curry SHOULD be better in shape than out of shape..thats a no brainer to me. Whether he actually will be is in question though. I think he will suffer from not having Crawford around to feed him in the post. No matter what people say about Hinrich, he isn't as good at feeding Eddy in the post as crawford was.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"No according to Skiles, Curry has never been in good shape in his entire life. Which I am sure Skiles would know considering he hung out with Curry since Curry was born 

Curry basically didnt play at all from Nov-Jan, even recording a DNP or 2. So its not like he played himself into shape."

Curry himself said that this is the FIRST TIME he has ever been in shape in his entire career. CURRY SAID IT. And the reason Curry had those DNP's was because he was OUT OF SHAPE.

Why can you not understand this?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhh okay. Jamal said that quote w/in the first two weeks of Skiles arrival. SKiles was the one who gave Jamal extended minutes at the 2, often trotting out Kirk and Jamal in the same backcourt... something BC was unwilling to do.
> ...


I dont have the exact quote Dave but he said he was misused by mgt and the coaching staff last year. This was after Skiles took a little jab at him by saying we didnt have a 2 who could play D last year. 

I have friends who work in the knicks organization who have also said how happy Crawford is with Wilkens and the organization in comparison to our. I also believe JCBIGSIS repeateded this in a post. And Jamal is smart. The quickest way to find yourself on the bench is by slamming your own coach. Why would he not be anything but positive on the guy who controls his minutes?


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> What do you expect him to say? If you dont kiss Skiles butt, you dont play. Ask Erob.


I don't think kissing *** would of saved Erob. EROB stated how much he was into playing this year and then fakes an injury after the 2nd practice. Lip service (kissing ***) isn't going to work w/ Skiles. 

I am glad the Bulls have a no nonsense coach, as bad as they have been to watch over that last 5 years I was hoping Pax would of hired Lee Ermey









I wonder if Skiles was berating ERobbery during practices by calling him Pyle?


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I think we have to reserve judgement since the season hasn't even started yet. It stands to reason that Curry SHOULD be better in shape than out of shape..thats a no brainer to me. Whether he actually will be is in question though. I think he will suffer from not having Crawford around to feed him in the post. No matter what people say about Hinrich, he isn't as good at feeding Eddy in the post as crawford was.


Actually, I noticed in the pre-season games that Kirk and Eddy have developed a better feel for one another. Time will tell.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> "No according to Skiles, Curry has never been in good shape in his entire life. Which I am sure Skiles would know considering he hung out with Curry since Curry was born
> 
> Curry basically didnt play at all from Nov-Jan, even recording a DNP or 2. So its not like he played himself into shape."
> ...


are you stupid? look at the stats? So Skiles and Curry both agree he has never been in shape, yet he put up those stats? And Skiles is right on this one? Its the coaches job to have his players succeed. Can you honestly say Skiles had a positive impact on Curry? The stats clearly dont. nearly 20 ppg on 65% from the field proves that you dont need to be in shape to be an effective player, like Shaq and Barkley proved. You just need to be used right. But since you know nothing about basketball, you clearly wouldnt know that. Youll buy any crap Skiles would sell you.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think kissing *** would of saved Erob. EROB stated how much he was into playing this year and then fakes an injury after the 2nd practice. Lip service (kissing ***) isn't going to work w/ Skiles.
> ...


then what would have? I mean, playing pretty well clearly didnt save him with Coach Skiles. I mean, look at these stats before Skiles sat him down for the rest of the year. 

DATE OPP RESULT MIN FG PCT 3P PCT FT PCT STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 
2/2
@Sea
L 109-97 37 7-9 .778 0-0
-- 0-0
-- 2
1
3
2
0
3
3
0
14

2/4
@Uth
W 95-79 23 7-8 .875 0-0
-- 2-2
1.000 1
0
1
0
0
3
3
0
16

2/6
@Hou
L 82-80 26 5-10 .500 0-1
.000 1-2
.500 2
0
3
0
0
2
2
3
11

2/10
Ind
L 103-84 17 1-3 .333 0-0
-- 0-0
-- 0
0
1
0
0
1
1
1
2

2/12
Bos
W 107-87 29 5-8 .625 0-0
-- 2-2
1.000 0
0
2
1
0
1
1
1
12

2/17
Tor
W 75-73 27 3-8 .375 0-0
-- 0-0
-- 2
0
0
2
1
3
4
4
6

2/20
Sac
L 91-83 36 8-15 .533 0-0
-- 0-0
-- 1
0
2
2
1
3
4
3
16

2/21
Mem
L 105-98 40 5-12 .417 1-1
1.000 3-4
.750 1
0
1
6
1
3
4
1
14

2/25
Det
L 107-88 16 2-6 .333 0-0
-- 0-0
-- 0
0
3
1
0
0
0
1
4

2/26
@Was
L 95-87 24 3-9 .333 0-0
-- 2-2
1.000 1
0
1
0
0
1
1
1
8

2/28
Gsw
W 87-81 0 0-0 -- 0-0
-- 0-0
-- 0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0

Numbers for February 27.5 46-88 .523 1-2 .500 10-12 .833 1.0 0.1 1.7 1.4 0.3 2.0 2.3 1.5 10.3 


he played pretty well. But Skiles must have thought he wasnt "losing the right way"


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> are you stupid? look at the stats? So Skiles and Curry both agree he has never been in shape, yet he put up those stats? And Skiles is right on this one? Its the coaches job to have his players succeed. Can you honestly say Skiles had a positive impact on Curry? The stats clearly dont. nearly 20 ppg on 65% from the field proves that you dont need to be in shape to be an effective player, like Shaq and Barkley proved. You just need to be used right. But since you know nothing about basketball, you clearly wouldnt know that. Youll buy any crap Skiles would sell you.


Like ACE said, why not wait and see what Curry does before you rail Skiles about him?

BTW? I love how you continue to insult me. Even though I am simply stating my opinions and facts about the Bulls. It just shows me what type of person you are.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont have the exact quote Dave but he said he was misused by mgt and the coaching staff last year. This was after Skiles took a little jab at him by saying we didnt have a 2 who could play D last year.
> ...


I'm really not sure what you're arguing. You seem to slam Skiles at every opportunity and drag other posters into the discussion. Per my original idea, I was replying to a post by ViciousF in a mild defense of Skiles' teaching and coaching of the young players. And Jamal's quote served as the proof. 

Jamal took to Skiles' coaching pretty well, especially considering his past sordid history with coaches. He even laughed/joked about his relationship w/ Skiles saying its probably the first coach he didn't have major issues with. The relationship wasn't perfect, but JC got major minutes at the 2, had some great games, and made himself some $$$ in the offseason.

Until you can scratch up a direct quote from Jamal about Skiles my opinion remains unchanged. I could care less what your chronies in the Knicks org have to say.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Yeah lets loose ALL of the personal insults on this thread or I will lock the puppy up tighter than Ms. Abstinence's jeans.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Like ACE said, why not wait and see what Curry does before you rail Skiles about him?
> ...


No because your answer to everything is just to repeat Skiles rhetoric. You have called Curry undedicated and lazy and fat. But I doubt you really have an opinion of your own. Your a follower Shinky, plain and simple. Its not an insult, its a fact. And I have plainly proven to you that you dont need to eat Skiles crap to be a good player. Curry has proven to be a special player for a period in his career. This happened while he was supposedly out of shape. Yet, you and others, will harp on that because Skiles came up with something out of left field. But no one wants to talk about the real problem. The problem was Cartwright went back to the triangle and then Skiles took over. Curry has never been the same. And he will never succeed as long as your God, Skiles is the coach either.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> No because your answer to everything is just to repeat Skiles rhetoric. You have called Curry undedicated and lazy and fat. But I doubt you really have an opinion of your own. Your a follower Shinky, plain and simple. Its not an insult, its a fact. And I have plainly proven to you that you dont need to eat Skiles crap to be a good player. Curry has proven to be a special player for a period in his career. This happened while he was supposedly out of shape. Yet, you and others, will harp on that because Skiles came up with something out of left field. But no one wants to talk about the real problem. The problem was Cartwright went back to the triangle and then Skiles took over. Curry has never been the same. And he will never succeed as long as your God, Skiles is the coach either.


You are amazing. You really are.

I have done NOTHING but praise Eddy for finally getting in shape. Im am proud of him for doing so. I said since the end of last season, that in order for Curry to work on his game, he needed to come into camp IN SHAPE. We couldn't afford to spend the entire pre-season and some of the regulard season, working on getting Eddy in shape like we have in the past. Even Eddy Curry said that in an interview.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

Rlucas is it possible that Skiles saw that Erob looked like he didn't give a damn and asked him to change his approach? Is it also possible that when Erob didn't change the way he approached the game, Skiles took it as Erob not giving a damn? 

Today I read that Eddie is almost in game shape, glad that chronic toe injury that prevented him from working out at the Berto Center has healed. Eddie Robinson said he was on the same page after his meeting w/ Pax, once again ERob was all talk. 

I can't believe people can still defend Erob, the guy quit on his team mates. When Eddy Curry was asked if the Bulls would throw Robinson of Bulls Survivor, Eddy's anserw was that Eddie would probably swim away. 

screw Jerry Krause for singing that piece of crap. Good bye Erob have a nice swim.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

With respect to the whole "curry being in shape" deal is that Skiles has mentioned that Curry has never shown up _to camp_ in shape. Not that Curry has never been in shape. I've also read on numerous occasions that, in the past, Curry has played himself into shape. That would be a logical explanation as to why his stats improved as has been cited. The whole hub-bub over Curry being in shape to start the season would lead to higher expectations of him being able to produce in November and December the way he's been able to produce in February and March for once.

I've got mixed feelings about him. He sure seems more active and I've actually seem him jump and reach for rebounds, which is something he rarely has ever done. Mentally, he's still looks like a 16 year old who has little to no clue what to do on the court.

I really don't see how anyone can pin Curry's development , or lack thereof, on Skiles or any of his coaches. You can teach someone calculus, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to learn it.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> You are amazing. You really are.
> ...


and so you appreciate that Curry is still not as good as he was 2 years ago, even though he has done everything that was asked of him? And dont give me this crap about nothing but praise Curry, you take him down for not rebounding, playing defense or being effective in the second half. So I guess Skiles mantra of him needing to "jump" to rebound were helped by him getting into shape. Looks like those 39 lbs didnt help him. He still isnt as good as he was 2 years ago. And Skiles has failed because he cant bring that out of him. Curry needs to go to a team that will appreciate that he really is a scorer, and a very good one at that. And a team that wont expose him in the media for all of his weaknesses.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> and so you appreciate that Curry is still not as good as he was 2 years ago, even though he has done everything that was asked of him? And dont give me this crap about nothing but praise Curry, you take him down for not rebounding, playing defense or being effective in the second half. So I guess Skiles mantra of him needing to "jump" to rebound were helped by him getting into shape. Looks like those 39 lbs didnt help him. He still isnt as good as he was 2 years ago. And Skiles has failed because he cant bring that out of him. Curry needs to go to a team that will appreciate that he really is a scorer, and a very good one at that. And a team that wont expose him in the media for all of his weaknesses.


Again, has the season started? I'll hold off any judgement until I see him play. Can you deny the fact that Curry is much quicker and more authoritive with the ball? He used to lay the ball in alot, now he slams it in.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"With respect to the whole "curry being in shape" deal is that Skiles has mentioned that Curry has never shown up to camp in shape. Not that Curry has never been in shape."

Actually, Skiles has said that he doesn't think Curry has EVER been in NBA shape in his life.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I tend to agree with RLucas about a lot of things but I think he is denigrating the importance of being in shape to illustrate his point about how a good coach can utilize a talented player properly. Still, to start last season Curry was WOEFULLY out of shape. we couldn't even play him over 20mpg to start the season it seemed. He had to come out early and often to cacth his breath. No matter how naturally talented Curry is, if he can't stay in the game he won't contribute, this is something that shouldn't be shoved under the rug either just to make his point.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> With respect to the whole "curry being in shape" deal is that Skiles has mentioned that Curry has never shown up _to camp_ in shape. Not that Curry has never been in shape. I've also read on numerous occasions that, in the past, Curry has played himself into shape. That would be a logical explanation as to why his stats improved as has been cited. The whole hub-bub over Curry being in shape to start the season would lead to higher expectations of him being able to produce in November and December the way he's been able to produce in February and March for once.
> 
> I've got mixed feelings about him. He sure seems more active and I've actually seem him jump and reach for rebounds, which is something he rarely has ever done. Mentally, he's still looks like a 16 year old who has little to no clue what to do on the court.
> ...


Ok so lets say he played himself into shape, even though Skiles said Curry has NEVER been in good shape and Curry, according to Shinky agreed with him, agreed. But lets say they are wrong. How is it that Curry never came close to achieving the success of the previous years final 3 months, assuming he played himself into shape last year? Isnt that on Skiles? Or are we all Bushies here, believing that it is ok for Skiles to pass the buck? Skiles has one true superstar potential player on the roster, dont you think it would be intelligent to put him in a system that works for him?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Again, has the season started? I'll hold off any judgement until I see him play. Can you deny the fact that Curry is much quicker and more authoritive with the ball? He used to lay the ball in alot, now he slams it in.


and his coach still wont put him back into games in the second half, even though often times he is the only thing we have in the half court offense. Explain that


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> "With respect to the whole "curry being in shape" deal is that Skiles has mentioned that Curry has never shown up to camp in shape. Not that Curry has never been in shape."
> 
> Actually, Skiles has said that he doesn't think Curry has EVER been in NBA shape in his life.


Proving my point, you dont have to be in NBA shape to dominate people, which is what Curry did over a 3 month span in 2003 with Cartwright has his coach, not Skiles. Must have been the system and the players around him


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> and his coach still wont put him back into games in the second half, even though often times he is the only thing we have in the half court offense. Explain that


It's pre-season, and we needed to see other players?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"I think I'm coming into training camp not looking to lose weight or get in shape," Curry said. "I can come in and actually learn what I need to do and learn what I've been lacking these last three years. I wish I had done this years earlier. But better late than never." 

Eddy Curry.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

OWNED!


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

One thing I noticed in the preseason was that a lighter Curry did have trouble backing people into the post the way he used to.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> It's pre-season, and we needed to see other players?


Thats not what your boy said at all. This is his quote

"Eddy's never been very good, in my experience, at going out of a game and coming back in, especially if he's been out awhile."

Does that sound like someone who knows how to make a player better? Does that sound like someone whose new found shape leads to better performance?


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> One thing I noticed in the preseason was that a lighter Curry did have trouble backing people into the post the way he used to.


I think Curry has been trying other things. Like extending his jumper a bit. He does take it to the hole much more though.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats not what your boy said at all. This is his quote
> ...


Some people need a little slap in the arse to get them motivated, perhaps Curry is one of those people.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> OWNED!


i guess you can claim victory when you never answer questions. Why is it that an out of shape Eddy Curry can dominate over a 3 month span with a bum of a coach, but be pretty ineffective for long stretches this preason, while being in shape, for another coach? I am dying to hear the answer. jeez, getting you to have an actual original opinion is very hard to do. but I am dying to hear what rhetoric you can spew next


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Curry has been trying other things. Like extending his jumper a bit. He does take it to the hole much more though.


Cause thats what you want him to do, face up and put the ball on the floor


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> i guess you can claim victory when you never answer questions. Why is it that an out of shape Eddy Curry can dominate over a 3 month span with a bum of a coach, but be pretty ineffective for long stretches this preason, while being in shape, for another coach? I am dying to hear the answer. jeez, getting you to have an actual original opinion is very hard to do. but I am dying to hear what rhetoric you can spew next


IT'S ONLY PRE-SEASON! Let him play before you go railing on skiles.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Curry has been trying other things. Like extending his jumper a bit. He does take it to the hole much more though.


Uhh...he took it to the hole much LESS in the preseason, he could be working on other things as you suggest but he seemed to have some trouble backing into the post.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhh...he took it to the hole much LESS in the preseason, he could be working on other things as you suggest but he seemed to have some trouble backing into the post.


Proving that he actually doesnt watch the games


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Cause thats what you want him to do, face up and put the ball on the floor


You want a player to have every ability they can. Remember what they said about MJ? Couldn't hit outside shots?


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> i guess you can claim victory when you never answer questions. Why is it that an out of shape Eddy Curry can dominate over a 3 month span with a bum of a coach, but be pretty ineffective for long stretches this preason, while being in shape, for another coach? I am dying to hear the answer. jeez, getting you to have an actual original opinion is very hard to do. but I am dying to hear what rhetoric you can spew next


As Ace said, this question cannot be fully answered until the season starts. Curry bought into what both Pax and Skiles expect of him in the offseason, the result of this is yet to be determined.

I will say this though... Curry has done some things this pre-season that I have <i>never</i> seen him do before. So that's a good sign.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhh...he took it to the hole much LESS in the preseason, he could be working on other things as you suggest but he seemed to have some trouble backing into the post.


What I meant is that he was DUNKING the ball more, rather then relying on jump shots.

And I watch EVERY game, Rlucas. ACE can most certainly testify to that fact.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> You want a player to have every ability they can. Remember what they said about MJ? Couldn't hit outside shots?


i want an Eddy Curry who can get position in the post and be that player from 2 years ago. And that player from 2 years ago wasnt putting the ball on the floor. According to Ace, he isnt even doing that. Proving that you just rail rhetoric, without actually having an opinion of your own, for right or wrong.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> i want an Eddy Curry who can get position in the post and be that player from 2 years ago. And that player from 2 years ago wasnt putting the ball on the floor. According to Ace, he isnt even doing that. Proving that you just rail rhetoric, without actually having an opinion of your own, for right or wrong.


I want Eddy to be more than a one dimensional player.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I want Eddy to be more than a one dimensional player.


So you want Eddy leading the break? Eddy nailing the 20 footer? Too bad Eddy is never good in the second half, because thats the only PT he will get this year. Jared Reiner better be ready to go


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> What I meant is that he was DUNKING the ball more, rather then relying on jump shots.
> ...


Sure you do. just like when you said Pietrus couldnt defend


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So you want Eddy leading the break? Eddy nailing the 20 footer? Too bad Eddy is never good in the second half, because thats the only PT he will get this year. Jared Reiner better be ready to go


I want Eddy to be harder to defend. Having different skills will do that. Having an outside shot will do that. Being able to reckognize defenses will do that. Being able to pass the ball out and find the open man will do that.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Sure you do. just like when you said Pietrus couldnt defend


I never said that.


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok so lets say he played himself into shape, even though Skiles said Curry has NEVER been in good shape and Curry, according to Shinky agreed with him, agreed. But lets say they are wrong. How is it that Curry never came close to achieving the success of the previous years final 3 months, assuming he played himself into shape last year? Isnt that on Skiles? Or are we all Bushies here, believing that it is ok for Skiles to pass the buck? Skiles has one true superstar potential player on the roster, dont you think it would be intelligent to put him in a system that works for him?


I would say passing the buck would be blaming everyone but Curry and Chandler for the Bulls struggles. Krause put that weight on them when he gutted the team with the purpose of getting the 2 teenagers. 

We have had a few NBA allstars that played here that couldn't carry Curry and Chandler to 40 win seasons. 

The team will only go as far as Tyson and Curry will take them. I think we have great role players in Kirk, Andres, Deng and even overpaid Antonio Davis. It's up for Curry and Chandler to bring this team to greatness, that was Krause's goal, right? 

It's year 4 and all those calling for Paxson's and Skiles heads are also calling for another 30 win season. If we don't win 30 games this year it isn't because, Deng, Kirk and Andres couldn't fill their roles. It would be because Curry and Chandler haven't lived up to Krause's grand plan, despite the series of crappy coaches brought in to teach them. 

I've have watched almost everygame in some form over that last 5 years, no more excuses for the players, at some point you have to lace up your sneakers and tie your shorts and be the man. Curry has to become the man, he should own the league. Men don't let coaches dictate their play, men dictate the way coaches coach.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I want Eddy to be harder to defend. Having different skills will do that. Having an outside shot will do that. Being able to reckognize defenses will do that. Being able to pass the ball out and find the open man will do that.


voila, we agree on something, sort of. Instead of Curry losing all the weight, I would have rather had him in the gym doing nothing but passing out of double teams. That actually would help his game and the team


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> I would say passing the buck would be blaming everyone but Curry and Chandler for the Bulls struggles. Krause put that weight on them when he gutted the team with the purpose of getting the 2 teenagers.
> ...


Do they? Curry is 20 years old. He does what he is told. Its a coaches job to put the best players out there to give the team a chance to win. Do you honestly think Skiles did that? I mean, erobs stats alone show that the best players were not playing


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> What I meant is that he was DUNKING the ball more, rather then relying on jump shots.
> ...


Well, I only got to see 2 televised preseason games, I know shinky got to see more than me for a change. Still, the 2 games I watched Curry took more fadeaways than dunks it seemed like. Shinky does watch the game, we don't always agree on what happened lol but I know he watches most of em.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I never said that.


You sure as hell did. you went to the GS game last year and you said on RealGM that you couldnt see what the big deal about his defense was. That was your quote, showing that you may or may not actually watch the games, but really dont know whats actually going on.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> voila, we agree on something, sort of. Instead of Curry losing all the weight, I would have rather had him in the gym doing nothing but passing out of double teams. That actually would help his game and the team


Yes. This is true. But my thing is this...

Instead of having to get Curry in shape, we can now work on his game being that he is already In shape. This was the biggest thing for Eddy this season.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm going to state a hypothesis here that I believe I can basically statistically support:

Curry got progressively better under Cartwright's tutiledge and has gotten progressively worse as the association with Cartwright moved further into the past.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"You sure as hell did. you went to the GS game last year and you said on RealGM that you couldnt see what the big deal about his defense was."

This is probably true. But the guy didn't impress me. So what?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes. This is true. But my thing is this...
> ...


I disagree. He has proven he could dominate while not being in "NBA Shape" already. It was the coaches job to make sure he understood how to get some of his teammates open shots. And it was Paxs job to get some guys who could make them. Pax may have done that with Gordon and Deng and Nocioni. But Kirk needs to get far better, and Jamal certainly wasnt the answer either


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I'm going to state a hypothesis here that I believe I can basically statistically support:
> 
> Curry got progressively better under Cartwright's tutiledge and has gotten progressively worse as the association with Cartwright moved further into the past.


But should Eddy be in shape?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> "You sure as hell did. you went to the GS game last year and you said on RealGM that you couldnt see what the big deal about his defense was."
> 
> This is probably true. But the guy didn't impress me. So what?


Showing that you really dont the intricacies of the game. Considering he was the only rookie to get a vote for all defensive team.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I disagree. He has proven he could dominate while not being in "NBA Shape" already. It was the coaches job to make sure he understood how to get some of his teammates open shots. And it was Paxs job to get some guys who could make them. Pax may have done that with Gordon and Deng and Nocioni. But Kirk needs to get far better, and Jamal certainly wasnt the answer either


My question is this..if he can DOMINATE not being in shape, what can he do IN shape?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

:starwars: :argue: :wave:


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Showing that you really dont the intricacies of the game. Considering he was the only rookie to get a vote for all defensive team.


He didn't impress me in that game.


----------



## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok so lets say he played himself into shape, even though Skiles said Curry has NEVER been in good shape and Curry, according to Shinky agreed with him, agreed. But lets say they are wrong. How is it that Curry never came close to achieving the success of the previous years final 3 months, assuming he played himself into shape last year? Isnt that on Skiles? Or are we all Bushies here, believing that it is ok for Skiles to pass the buck? Skiles has one true superstar potential player on the roster, dont you think it would be intelligent to put him in a system that works for him?


So is all player improvement incumbent on the coach improving the player? If you believe that, I don't know what to say. Now, I didn't play ball at the highest level but I know that much of my improvement came from within. I wanted to get better and I worked on it. The coaches I had augmented what I developed but I would not (and did not) expect them to be responsible for my complete development. 

Couldn't a different question be asked here? Why didn't Curry pick up where he left off? During the offseason, was it Skiles responsibility to be his coach or was it Currys responsibility to work on his game and then his coach take that work and refine it. You really do seem hell-bent on completely blaming Skiles for everything and it detracts from what would otherwise be nice arguments from you. You obviously have a slight disdane towards Shinky and that's between you two. I hope I at least have your respect as you're one smart hombre!

I'm thinking, as with most things, the blame lies pretty much on both parties.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> But should Eddy be in shape?


can you dispute that? honestly, can you dispute that. All the talk about being in shape and jumping etc is just talk. Is curry a better player today then he was under Skiles? DC hit it on the head, statistically the answer is no. And it shows on the court


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> My question is this..if he can DOMINATE not being in shape, what can he do IN shape?


YEAH BABY! THANK YOU!!!

That's exactly what I feel as well!

Oh ACEY, you know me so well....


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> can you dispute that? honestly, can you dispute that. All the talk about being in shape and jumping etc is just talk. Is curry a better player today then he was under Skiles? DC hit it on the head, statistically the answer is no. And it shows on the court


How do we know? The season hasn't started yet.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> So is all player improvement incumbent on the coach improving the player? If you believe that, I don't know what to say. Now, I didn't play ball at the highest level but I know that much of my improvement came from within. I wanted to get better and I worked on it. The coaches I had augmented what I developed but I would not (and did not) expect them to be responsible for my complete development.
> ...


:clap: :clap: :clap: flash can certainly bring it.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> YEAH BABY! THANK YOU!!!
> ...


and has he dominated since being in shape? Nope. Why? Because the system and the coaches dont know how to use him. Curry can be a great player. But he isnt Jordan or Lebron, a player who could be great anywhere. He needs to be managed correctly, as DC pointed out. Does anyone honestly think that has happened?


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Do they? Curry is 20 years old. He does what he is told. Its a coaches job to put the best players out there to give the team a chance to win. Do you honestly think Skiles did that? I mean, erobs stats alone show that the best players were not playing


I am not sure I can discuss this with you. We have complete opposite opinions of what Erob brought to the table. 

On today's team the best 2 players at Erob's position are Andres and Deng. The reason the Bulls went with Luol and Nocioni was what they didn't get from Erob.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> How do we know? The season hasn't started yet.


Look at the stats last year vs the year before. Look at the production in the preseason and how he was was handled. Can you say Curry is better today then he was as an out of shape 20 year old 18 months ago? Can you say that? Just answer the question and if the answer is yes, please say why. Im dying to hear it


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Does anyone else enjoy these two-man pissing contests as much as I do? I like to keep score by counting the number of "Oh, snap!" comments for each side.

Right now Rlucas and Shinky are tied at 9.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> I am not sure I can discuss this with you. We have complete opposite opinions of what Erob brought to the table.
> ...


Erob averaged over 10 ppg in the mid 20s in minutes while shooting over 50% from the floor and often times guarding some of the other teams best offensive players. Then one day he stopped playing. It wasnt a taper in minutes, it simply STOPPED. If you dont think 10ppg on 50%+ from the field are good, particuarly for this team, I just dont know what else to say to you. Does he fit in with this team? Not really. But he would have been ahead of Pike on the depth chart as a 2


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Look at the stats last year vs the year before. Look at the production in the preseason and how he was was handled. Can you say Curry is better today then he was as an out of shape 20 year old 18 months ago? Can you say that? Just answer the question and if the answer is yes, please say why. Im dying to hear it


This is the first time he will start the season off IN SHAPE. I will wait and see what happens before I go judging either Curry or Skiles.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Does anyone else enjoy these two-man pissing contests as much as I do? I like to keep score by counting the number of "Oh, snap!" comments for each side.
> 
> Right now Rlucas and Shinky are tied at 9.


No, he has already claimed victory. he won. you win these days by spooing the organizations rhetoric and not answering questions. So I cant beat him at that. But atleast I have an original opinion rather then simply following the crowd


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

12 pages and counting on cutting The Sweater... this could mean only one thing.

Regular season is starting soon!!! :yes: 

:twave:


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> This is the first time he will start the season off IN SHAPE. I will wait and see what happens before I go judging either Curry or Skiles.


Your judgement has already been made. Why cut through to the chase. Skiles has done his job, and if the Bulls struggle, which they probably will, it will be Currys fault, no matter what he does. Your just a voice for the organization. Kismet may or may not actually work for the Bulls. And he is pro Bulls mgt on everything. But the difference is that there is some subject matters he wont touch because he has an opinion of his own. He doesnt agree with everything Pax and Skiles do. Thats the difference between good posting and just repeating the company line over and over. Kismet, who i rarely agree with, is the best poster on this board. You, well, are pretty much something I can laugh at to pass my time


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> No, he has already claimed victory. he won. you win these days by spooing the organizations rhetoric and not answering questions. So I cant beat him at that. But atleast I have an original opinion rather then simply following the crowd


And just for those keeping score;

Rlucas says that E-Rob wasn't a slug, and that Eddy Curry doesn't need to be in shape. He also makes some stuff up to try and prove his points, even though I go ahead and produce comments by Eddy Curry himself, backing up what I am saying.

It's called "imaginary message board". Play it! IT'S FUN!


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Your judgement has already been made. Why cut through to the chase. Skiles has done his job, and if the Bulls struggle, which they probably will, it will be Currys fault, no matter what he does. Your just a voice for the organization. Kismet may or may not actually work for the Bulls. And he is pro Bulls mgt on everything. But the difference is that there is some subject matters he wont touch because he has an opinion of his own. He doesnt agree with everything Pax and Skiles do. Thats the difference between good posting and just repeating the company line over and over. Kismet, who i rarely agree with, is the best poster on this board. You, well, are pretty much something I can laugh at to pass my time


Again, where am I ripping Eddy Curry? Like I said, I have done nothing but praise him for his work this season. Will it pay off? That's up to Eddy.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

" You, well, are pretty much something I can laugh at to pass my time "

were you laughing at me as I chased your worthless *** off RealGm?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I'd still like to see my question addressed by rlucas.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> And just for those keeping score;
> ...


Erobs stats before the benching
Jan
Numbers for January 22.6 50-108 .463 0-2 .000 8-10 .800 0.8 0.3 0.7 1.3 0.9 1.5 2.4 1.2 9.0 
Feb
Numbers for February 27.5 46-88 .523 1-2 .500 10-12 .833 1.0 0.1 1.7 1.4 0.3 2.0 2.3 1.5 10.3 

proving that Shinky doesnt watch basketball. These numbers are certainly better then the guys he was benched for. 

Currys stats the 3 months before Skiles took over as head coach of the Bulls, and not being in "NBA Shape"

Feb 2003
Numbers for February 19.6 70-109 .642 0-0 -- 32-49 .653 0.1 1.4 2.1 2.9 1.8 3.1 4.9 0.3 12.3 
Mar 2003
Numbers for March 28.6 99-171 .579 0-0 -- 45-69 .652 0.4 0.7 2.4 3.8 2.3 4.4 6.7 0.8 17.4 
Apr
Numbers for April 31.8 63-96 .656 0-0 -- 36-55 .655 0.5 1.5 2.4 4.6 1.5 5.0 6.5 0.6 20.3 

Also proving that shinky doesnt know what makes a good player a good player. Curry showed that if he is set up right, and handled correctly, he can dominate. But Shinky will tell you that he needs to be in good shape to be a good player. This proves that he already is a good player and regressed under Skiles

Again, its just easy to spew the rhetoric over and over. Maybe youll get a following. Though the average guy here isnt dumb enough to buy your line


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> " You, well, are pretty much something I can laugh at to pass my time "
> 
> were you laughing at me as I chased your worthless *** off RealGm?


You chased me off Realgm. Can Fleet and Slim come here and say what really happened. And I make stuff up? brilliant.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> You chased me off Realgm. Can Fleet and Slim come here and say what really happened. And I make stuff up? brilliant.


Hey, just letting you know I'm not a doormat for you to constantly toss insults at.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

My question is this..if he can DOMINATE not being in shape, what can he do IN shape? 

Is this your question Ace?

If so, my answer is probably not much until a system is put in place that allows him to succeed and if he gets chastised in the press constantly. Curry statistically was worse under Skiles, and he should have played himself into shape last year as well. In fact, he played alot more last year and still regressed. So until we get a coach to untap Eddys special potential, the answer is prob no different.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

it's really more like internet message board masturbation....but i digress.


tell ya what fellas - this thursday SCOTT SKILES will be a guest on ESPN radio 1000 in chicago on the Mac, Jurko and Harry show - and you can listen LIVE via the internet (so cool!). you can also email them questions, and maybe they will read it on the air.

so....

1) is it possible that fat eddy could be better than thin eddy? (i for one, don't believe that crap for a second - that is a total reach) 

2) what really happened with mrs. robinson (i am sorry but there really is no defending this guy - he was heartless and gutless, and frankly, a marginal talent at best - where is dan r. when you need him)

3) what's up with calling players out in the press? 

food for thought.

now, back to our regularly scheduled bickering.



MAC JURKO and HARRY link


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey, just letting you know I'm not a doormat for you to constantly toss insults at.


No, when you cant take it anymore, you run and hide behind Duck who will defend you. What else do you expect from someone who follows blindly?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> it's really more like internet message board masturbation....but i digress.
> 
> 
> ...


the stats dont lie, do they?


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

I can say one nice thing about Erobbery, his lack of commitment to the game made Paxson get Deng and Nocioni, for which I am very grateful.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> No, when you cant take it anymore, you run and hide behind Duck who will defend you. What else do you expect from someone who follows blindly?


Is Duck here? I dont see him.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Is Duck here? I dont see him.


You have done it before, and youll do it again. on realgm, you have a rep for getting into it with people and then having Duck bail you out. Is Duck your daddy?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> the stats dont lie, do they?


There's more to being a good player than just stats. E-Slug was not worth the headache. He was a horrible teamate. Ask AD.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> You have done it before, and youll do it again. on realgm, you have a rep for getting into it with people and then having Duck bail you out. Is Duck your daddy?


I don't rely on people to bail me out of anything. Again, ACE (who knows me, and has known me for a LONG time) he can testify to that fact.

And another insult. I am starting to think maybe Rlucas's little brother is logged on and making these posts. Because to be honest here? Your sounding like a little teenager.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> There's more to being a good player than just stats. E-Slug was not worth the headache. He was a horrible teamate. Ask AD.


so why should we try to win? Thats your whole line "losing the right way" whether you want to admit or not, Erob produced. Heck, Skiles, GOD HIMSELF, said there wasnt many players with a better midrange game and applauded his D before mysteriously benching him. Why should Erob play when he is producing? I mean, dont the season ticket holders deserve the best chance to win? According to you, no. Erob played good ball before the benching, that can not be denied. Love him or hate him, thats a fact.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Shinky and rlucas4257:

Come on guys. You know I like and respect both of you as posters. You are two of the better posters we have on the boards.

I know you two have a past and its clear you don't like each other.

Please, either each of you put the other on ignore, or, if you want to respond to each other, turn the hostility down a notch.

It'll make the environment so much nicer for the rest of us if you were to back off the constant bickering.

As to the RealGM situation -- I wasn't there and don't know exactly how it got so far out of hand. but here -- I'm certain there's room on the board for both of you, if you will cooperate and maintain a little respect for each other. You guys have a difference of opinion. Its cool.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> so why should we try to win? Thats your whole line "losing the right way" whether you want to admit or not, Erob produced. Heck, Skiles, GOD HIMSELF, said there wasnt many players with a better midrange game and applauded his D before mysteriously benching him. Why should Erob play when he is producing? I mean, dont the season ticket holders deserve the best chance to win? According to you, no. Erob played good ball before the benching, that can not be denied. Love him or hate him, thats a fact.


Just look at what the Bulls did. They paid this clown nearly 11 mil to NOT play for them. The Bulls. What does THAT tell you? It tells me that there is something drastically wrong with the guy.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't rely on people to bail me out of anything. Again, ACE (who knows me, and has known me for a LONG time) he can testify to that fact.
> ...


I just hate your rhetoric, and frankly i hate followers. You bring out the worst in me. I have 86 stars and a 4 rating out of 5. But frankly, I havent bought your BS for years, because I have yet to hear you say anything original at all.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> Shinky and rlucas4257:
> 
> Come on guys. You know I like and respect both of you as posters. You are two of the better posters we have on the boards.
> ...


I think I am being pretty damn civil, TB.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Just look at what the Bulls did. They paid this clown nearly 11 mil to NOT play for them. The Bulls. What does THAT tell you? It tells me that there is something drastically wrong with the guy.


Look at the stats Shinky, they dont lie. Erob was way overpaid, yes. But do you want to win, or do you want to lose. Are you going to say Dupree was better then Erob at his worst? Give me a break. Again, losing the right way


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I think I am being pretty damn civil, TB.


OWNED
Shut the hell up!

Pretty civil indeed


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> the stats dont lie, do they?


rlucas, it is my own ORIGINAL singular and personal opinion, that eddie robinson was a heartless, gutless, brainless wonder. are you going to tell me i am _wrong?_ 

i am not a blind follower as you have accused me of being in the past. 

stats don't show the whole story.

i think this thread should be locked.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I just hate your rhetoric, and frankly i hate followers. You bring out the worst in me. I have 86 stars and a 4 rating out of 5. But frankly, I havent bought your BS for years, because I have yet to hear you say anything original at all.


All I ask for, and all I have EVER asked for, was that my team give me effort. That's it! Just because Pax and Skiles feel the same way I do, doesn't mean that I am "following" anything.

Also of note;

Eddy Curry left practice early today because of a slight groin strain. Lets hope this will not turn into something serious as the season goes on.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> 
> 
> rlucas, it is my own ORIGINAL singular and personal opinion, that eddie robinson was a heartless, gutless, brainless wonder. are you going to tell me i am _wrong?_
> ...


Was he not playing well? Answer that.


----------



## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Curry 2002-03

10.5 pts, 4.4 rebs, .5 assist, 19.4 mpg

Curry 2003-04

14.7 pts, 6.2 rebs, .9 assist, 29.5 mpg

If numbers don't lie, what do these say? Eddy's improved on his numbers every year he's been in the league. 02-03 was Cartwright and 03-04 was Skiles. Seems to me that Eddy made strides under Skiles. Much of it was simply production over time - I'll give that one up, but if Eddy was so productive under Cartwright, why wasn't he given more time?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> All I ask for, and all I have EVER asked for, was that my team give me effort. That's it! Just because Pax and Skiles feel the same way I do, doesn't mean that I am "following" anything.
> ...


So losing the right way, am i correct? Id rather us be the Portland Jailblazers and win, then lose with a bunch of gym rats


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> OWNED
> ...


That was after quite a few insults by you .

Like I said, just letting you know I am not a doormat.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So losing the right way, am i correct? Id rather us be the Portland Jailblazers and win, then lose with a bunch of gym rats


Talented players that work hard. 

Nothing wrong with that. And No, I do not like losing. Please get that through your head.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> Curry 2002-03
> 
> 10.5 pts, 4.4 rebs, .5 assist, 19.4 mpg
> ...


He never had a 3 month period under Skiles like he did with BC and actually regressed, big time, after the pace set up under BC. Thats for certain. On a minute by minute basis, and FG% basis, he regressed


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> That was after quite a few insults by you .
> ...


and I acknowledged that you bring out the worst in me. I dont like followers, I dont like rhetoric, and your full of it.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Yeah this thread is getting dangerously close to being locked. Lets all just agree to disagree here, if everyone shared the same opinoion then it wouldn't be election day today.

I, for one, understand that rlucas thinks Skiles does a poor job of utilizing Curry...I would be inclined to agree. I still think that it is important that Curry be conditioned properly though and that it should elevate his game. I am also willing to give Skiles the benefit of the doubt to see what he runs during the season, what his rotation looks like, etc. 

I also am sort of in the middle on E-Rob. I mean, the guy clearly has some issues, that being said, I can't recall ANY other team EVER paying a player in excess of 10 million dollars NOT To play for his team before. I think that the fault lies somewhere in between, E-Rob isn't the hardest worker in the world and our management coaching is pretty inflexible and not good at relating to young urban type players for the most part.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He never had a 3 month period under Skiles like he did with BC and actually regressed, big time, after the pace set up under BC. Thats for certain. On a minute by minute basis, and FG% basis, he regressed


This is a cop out. Over a period of 82 games, Curry played better adn more consistantly under Skiles. Again, I ask, if Curry had such a great span of games to conclude the 02-03 season, and Cartwright was still his coach to start the 03-04 season, what explains his drop off in production? You're pinning all this on Skiles. What about Eddy?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Talented players that work hard.
> ...


So Ronnie Dupree should have played more then ERob because he was talented AND worked hard? Dupree and the other CBA types last year gave us a better chance to win? Doesnt seem to me that you complained then about us trying to lose games. I actually remember the losing the right way quote from you. I believe Coldchi or Kenny or someone sent me an email with a link to it. Totally unbelievable that you were ok with losing, as long as it is the right way. For me, Id rather win, and I dont care how.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> This is a cop out. Over a period of 82 games, Curry played better adn more consistantly under Skiles. Again, I ask, if Curry had such a great span of games to conclude the 02-03 season, and Cartwright was still his coach to start the 03-04 season, what explains his drop off in production? You're pinning all this on Skiles. What about Eddy?


:yes:


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> This is a cop out. Over a period of 82 games, Curry played better adn more consistantly under Skiles. Again, I ask, if Curry had such a great span of games to conclude the 02-03 season, and Cartwright was still his coach to start the 03-04 season, what explains his drop off in production? You're pinning all this on Skiles. What about Eddy?


He came no where close to that 3 month span under Skiles. Absolutely nowhere close. he regressed off the top. Can you deny that?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So Ronnie Dupree should have played more then ERob because he was talented AND worked hard? Dupree and the other CBA types last year gave us a better chance to win? Doesnt seem to me that you complained then about us trying to lose games. I actually remember the losing the right way quote from you. I believe Coldchi or Kenny or someone sent me an email with a link to it. Totally unbelievable that you were ok with losing, as long as it is the right way. For me, Id rather win, and I dont care how.


I have no problem with players that earn their spots on the roster. That's the way it SHOULD be. 

Losing the "right way"?

If we're going to lose, I would much rather lose with players that gave it 100%, than with those that didn't. At least that would tell me they are at least trying.

Are you a spin doctor?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He came no where close to that 3 month span under Skiles. Absolutely nowhere close. he regressed off the top. Can you deny that?


What was the end result?

Stats dont lie.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I have no problem with players that earn their spots on the roster. That's the way it SHOULD be.
> ...


So you are ok with us not putting our best players out there, and therefore giving us less of a chance of losing, as long as Skiles guys out there? I mean, some fans are masochistic, but this dumb. Erob gave us a better chance to win then alot of the guys he was benched for. and the only people that were short changed were the season ticket holders. You clearly have to agree with that.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> What was the end result?
> ...


The stats dont lie, his ascent stopped nearly the day Skiles took over.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He came no where close to that 3 month span under Skiles. Absolutely nowhere close. he regressed off the top. Can you deny that?


I don't care about that three month span. That's in the past and you didn't answer the question. If Eddy's supposed drop off is completely Scott Skiles fault, what is your explanation of why Eddy started off the 2003-04 season at less than the clip he had established to finish the 02-03 season? According to all your arguments, Eddy's supposed decrease in skills occured solely because of Scott Skiles. Well, to start the 2003-04 season, Scott Skiles wasn't even the coach.

I simply want an answer from you. Not a redirection about how he never had a three month run like he had with Cartwright. I could also say that Eddy never completly stunk it up under Skiles like he did with Cartwright. The coin has two sides and I'd just like you to acknowledge that.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So you are ok with us not putting our best players out there, and therefore giving us less of a chance of losing, as long as Skiles guys out there? I mean, some fans are masochistic, but this dumb. Erob gave us a better chance to win then alot of the guys he was benched for. and the only people that were short changed were the season ticket holders. You clearly have to agree with that.


This argument would make sense, if in fact we WERE winning with those type of players.

We weren't. To me, the biggest problem with last season's Bull's, was their lack of work in the offseason.

Obviously, you and I do not agree.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> So Ronnie Dupree should have played more then ERob because he was talented AND worked hard? Dupree and the other CBA types last year gave us a better chance to win?.


It will be intersting to see if Larry Brown drops Dupree in favor of Erob. After all , Erob is motown.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't care about that three month span. That's in the past and you didn't answer the question. If Eddy's supposed drop off is completely Scott Skiles fault, what is your explanation of why Eddy started off the 2003-04 season at less than the clip he had established to finish the 02-03 season? According to all your arguments, Eddy's supposed decrease in skills occured solely because of Scott Skiles. Well, to start the 2003-04 season, Scott Skiles wasn't even the coach.
> ...


The answer is simple and I answered it. Curry improved as the season went on. He kept getting better and better. And the Bulls as a team PLAYED MUCH BETTER. They actually finished 9-11, against teams battling for playoff position no less (not what Skiles said that those games dont matter) that season with Curry leading the way. And that was with Curry not "an NBA shape". He kept getting better. Was he better last year? No. Part of that started due to the hamstring an eye injury and he got off to a slow start. But according to your logic, he would have played himself into shape as the year went on. STILL, he never approached that 3 month span. not even close. Now WHY IS THAT? SIMPLY ANSWER THAT


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> This argument would make sense, if in fact we WERE winning with those type of players.
> ...


Ok Shinky, I have put down the sword. Have a good day.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok Shinky, I have put down the sword. Have a good day.


Thanks man. You too. Love ya!


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> It will be intersting to see if Larry Brown drops Dupree in favor of Erob. After all , Erob is motown.


Erob is most likely headed to Miami, from what I hear.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks man. You too. Love ya!


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## bbertha37 (Jul 21, 2004)

Okay, I have a question for rlucas. How many games would we have won last season had E-Rob played as much as you had hoped?


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> The answer is simple and I answered it. Curry improved as the season went on. He kept getting better and better. And the Bulls as a team PLAYED MUCH BETTER. They actually finished 9-11, against teams battling for playoff position no less (not what Skiles said that those games dont matter) that season with Curry leading the way. And that was with Curry not "an NBA shape". He kept getting better. Was he better last year? No. Part of that started due to the hamstring an eye injury and he got off to a slow start. But according to your logic, he would have played himself into shape as the year went on. STILL, he never approached that 3 month span. not even close. Now WHY IS THAT? SIMPLY ANSWER THAT


Touchy, touchy aren't we?

So, what you just said was that Eddy progressed as the 02-03 season went on because he played himself into shape or just that he improved with time? What a concept! And, you also answered my question (thank you) by stating that Eddy started off the 03-04 season out of shape and that effected his performance. Again, what a concept!

You say he didn't play better last year. What does showing better numbers in all his key statistics tell you? That's right, he played worse. Got it. You keep harping on this three month span two years ago, why? I think you're reaching for something that's not there. Curry simply played more consistantly last season, hence the better numbers. Part of that consistancy was his being able to stay on the floor (more minutes). I don't see how you can say with a straight fact that 10 ppg, 4 rpg and 19 mpg is better than 15ppg, 6 rpg and 29 mpg.

To answer your question, cause I don't want you accusing me of not doing that, there are a whole slew of reasons why Eddy never had a three month run like he did to end 02-03. Teams concentrated more on him in the post and they also realized he is incapeable of passing out of a quadruple team. He really wasn't in shape to start last season again. He only has one move - a right handed jump hook which also was figured out. Take your pick. In the end it really doesn't matter, you won't accept them anyways. Why didn't Eddy have the runs (pun intended!) of terrible games that he had under Cartwright that he didn't have under Skiles? There's that other side of the coin! Damn it!

Let's see how he does this season before condeming Skiles as the AntiChrist, shall we? Eddy's improved every year in the league and I think he'll improve on his scoring, rebounding and even his post passing. I pray he improves his defense because that's what he really needs to work on.


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## bbertha37 (Jul 21, 2004)

Here's an interesting tidbit. Do you all know how well our team did during E-Rob's glorious little 14 game stint during January and February? We went *3-11!!!!* So much for E-Rob = wins.

Moreover, I decided to go back and see how we did in all other games when E-Rob played 20 or more minutes. (Drum Roll Please) Our record was 5-13. So, when E-Rob was playing meaningful minutes, we were 8-24(.250 %). So what was our record for the rest of our games? 15-35(.300 %).


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>bbertha37</b>!
> Here's an interesting tidbit. Do you all know how well our team did during E-Rob's glorious little 14 game stint during January and February? We went *3-11!!!!* So much for E-Rob = wins.
> 
> Moreover, I decided to go back and see how we did in all other games when E-Rob played 20 or more minutes. (Drum Roll Please) Our record was 5-13. So, when E-Rob was playing meaningful minutes, we were 8-24(.250 %). So what was our record for the rest of our games? 15-35(.300 %).


Hey! Stats dont lie.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey! Stats dont lie.


“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.” 

-- Mark Twain


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bbertha37</b>!
> Here's an interesting tidbit. Do you all know how well our team did during E-Rob's glorious little 14 game stint during January and February? We went *3-11!!!!* So much for E-Rob = wins.
> 
> Moreover, I decided to go back and see how we did in all other games when E-Rob played 20 or more minutes. (Drum Roll Please) Our record was 5-13. So, when E-Rob was playing meaningful minutes, we were 8-24(.250 %). So what was our record for the rest of our games? 15-35(.300 %).


You're acting like everything else is constant and that E-Rob is the only factor in those wins and losses.

In context, we had the 7 game road trip during 14 of those games all against playoff teams. Who else were we playing during that time that were losses ? Sacramento, Memphis, Detroit --- top tier playoff teams. We beat Utah, Boston, Toronto. Pretty tough order.

Besides the circus trip in November I don't know a stretch that was tougher.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I'm jumping in VERY late to the Eddy Curry argument on RLucas' side. 

Like RLucas, I DO think Eddy was a significantly better player during that infamous three month stretch then he has ever been.

Here's my opinion: The reason Eddy played so well during that three month stretch at the end of 02-03 and never reached it again last year has a lot to do with one man. And that man is not Skiles but...Jamal Crawford.

Now hear me out: Curry and Crawford were total buds. They got along great off the court and had fun on the court...Curry had a bit of motivation pumped into him because he and Crawford had CHEMISTRY. Like DMiles and QRich... 

Now Curry has major motivation problems because, as has been well documented, he doesn't really LOVE basketball. With Crawford and Skiles butting heads so many times last year and all the benching and finger-pointing going on, the team atmosphere must have been dismal and I imagine JC and Eddy *****ed and moaned a lot to one another off the court. 

BC let JC and Eddy play together at the end of 02/03 because he didn't really know what he was doing. That style of play may have been unorthodox or too "street" for Skiles and his supporters and it probably isn't the best way to play...but the reason Eddy looked so good playing it was because he was discovering just how much fun it could be to play well and play with your friends....

Cartwright came back the next year with a more strict plan in place and an out of control Jalen Rose. Crawford and Curry never settled into their comfort zone with one another before all the collapsing began. Skiles came in with the mindset that he shouldn't be teaching a pro. basketball player to love playing basketball. So he crashed the party and benched JC and Eddy often...it just wasn't fun anymore for Curry.

Breaking up JC and Eddy, to me, was a bad move...and it happened long before this offseason. Letting them play with and off one another and to have fun doing so was the best way to develop them...now, Eddy might be a lost cause.


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## bbertha37 (Jul 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The 6ft Hurdle</b>!
> 
> You're acting like everything else is constant and that E-Rob is the only factor in those wins and losses.
> 
> ...


I know that there are a ton of other facets that factor into those games. I'm just making it clear that this notion that we were a better team when E-Rob played significant minutes is a fallacy. And if one still can't concede that, one at least must concede that this team wouldn't have close to approaching the 30 win mark if Skiles continued to play E-Rob. So after taking that into account, WHY THE HELL WOULD WE WANT TO KEEP THIS LAZY MALCONTENT AROUND? It just doesn't make sense.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.”
> ...


I don't think Mark Twain and Dan Rosenbaum would have been chums


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## bbertha37 (Jul 21, 2004)

Regardless of one's thoughts on the effectiveness to which Skiles has used Eddy, one simply can't deny the benefits of Eddy being in-shape. Being well-conditioned will be crucial for Eddy to sustain A WHOLE SEASON of consistent production. Heck, being in good shape will allow Eddy to be a factor for an entire freakin game; something we have seldom seen throughout his entire career.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bbertha37</b>!
> 
> 
> I know that there are a ton of other facets that factor into those games. I'm just making it clear that this notion that we were a better team when E-Rob played significant minutes is a fallacy. And if one still can't concede that, one at least must concede that this team wouldn't have close to approaching the 30 win mark if Skiles continued to play E-Rob. So after taking that into account, WHY THE HELL WOULD WE WANT TO KEEP THIS LAZY MALCONTENT AROUND? It just doesn't make sense.


The point was that he played mostly in the tougher games, and he could've been the difference in the not so tough games.


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