# Trade Pierce?



## Milla (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey guys, I was just wondering how you guys would feel if PP got traded? Let's say for Vince Carter or someone of that calibre?


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

I am all for trading Pierce (for a better player. No loyalty in Celtics Nation anymore) but not for Vince Carter.

The guy gets hurt way too much.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Let's see first if Pierce changes his game under the new regime.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Let's see first if Pierce changes his game under the new regime.


The only change I see now is more 3s....:-/
If our new coach made the offense....well you know the rest.


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## h180ys (Nov 10, 2003)

PP for T-Mac, I'll take it anytime.

PP for Nowitzki.


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## princeb (May 14, 2003)

*I can't believe i'm hearing this!*

this thread is sickening and disloyal to celt's fans everywhere...trading PP would not only be a travesty, it would be worst than the list of mistakes that the ainge regime has already made.

PP has been loyal and has been playing thru these horrible changes that has forced him to pick up the slack and be everything for the C's. He's the only player in the NBA to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists...

plainly put he IS our team, even more than T-mac who has the same problem as pierce, but does have a very good drew gooden and a half decent vet in Howard, and they barely have double digit wins...Iverson has glen rob and we'll throw in eric snow for good measure.... vince has rose, marshall, and Bosh....PP has Jiri welsch, blount, and mccarty yet we're just under .500...

my point is that PP is a Jewel, if we can get a scoring big man, or a scoring somebody, or even a PG we'll be right back in the conference race...

to trade PP IS A DISQUSTING SUGGESTION, PERIOD.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: I can't believe i'm hearing this!*



> Originally posted by <b>princeb</b>!
> this thread is sickening and disloyal to celt's fans everywhere...trading PP would not only be a travesty, it would be worst than the list of mistakes that the ainge regime has already made.
> 
> PP has been loyal and has been playing thru these horrible changes that has forced him to pick up the slack and be everything for the C's. He's the only player in the NBA to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists...
> ...








Everyone should read this post, and put it in the books. After you read this post and thoroughly memorize it, this thread should be stickied to refer to anytime someone brings up trading our franchise player, thank you.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Why should they keep him? Pierce obviously cant carry this team by himself, so time to try something new. The C's are going nowhere but down this year.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

There's no reason to even entertain the thought of dealing Pierce. He's got diverse talents, few weaknesses, is locked up long term, is clutch, can carry a team, and is just starting to become more of a vocal leader now that Toine is gone.

I dunno, maybe I'm a sucker, but I trust Danny in the direction he's taking the club. Maybe they'll get a coach who'll force Pierce in to the post, then run motion off of the double teams he'll draw. I mean, PP is a -thick- player, and should be able to out muscle just about every single SF on the block. Let Jiri give him the entry pass so as to avoid the same-side double, and run Ricky toward the hoop, Blount at the high block.

This offense could work so much more fluidly if they just drew up plays that revolved around Paul posting up.

Am I wrong?


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Why should they keep him? Pierce obviously cant carry this team by himself, so time to try something new. The C's are going nowhere but down this year.








I'm not even going to argue. The mention of himn being traded shuldnt even be a mention.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> There's no reason to even entertain the thought of dealing Pierce. He's got diverse talents, few weaknesses, is locked up long term, is clutch, can carry a team, and is just starting to become more of a vocal leader now that Toine is gone.
> 
> I dunno, maybe I'm a sucker, but I trust Danny in the direction he's taking the club. Maybe they'll get a coach who'll force Pierce in to the post, then run motion off of the double teams he'll draw. I mean, PP is a -thick- player, and should be able to out muscle just about every single SF on the block. Let Jiri give him the entry pass so as to avoid the same-side double, and run Ricky toward the hoop, Blount at the high block.
> ...








You are right. Nice post.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Richie Rich</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why not argue for your opinion then? I dont see why your so against the idea of trading him. Leading you to two years of so-so play makes him untradable?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> There's no reason to even entertain the thought of dealing Pierce. He's got diverse talents, few weaknesses, is locked up long term, is clutch, can carry a team, and is just starting to become more of a vocal leader now that Toine is gone.
> 
> I dunno, maybe I'm a sucker, but I trust Danny in the direction he's taking the club. Maybe they'll get a coach who'll force Pierce in to the post, then run motion off of the double teams he'll draw. I mean, PP is a -thick- player, and should be able to out muscle just about every single SF on the block. Let Jiri give him the entry pass so as to avoid the same-side double, and run Ricky toward the hoop, Blount at the high block.
> ...


I do agree that you would be much better off with him playing in the post. But with that being said we've been saying that for a long time, and it doesnt look like hes going to change his game any time soon.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> I do agree that you would be much better off with him playing in the post. But with that being said we've been saying that for a long time, and it doesnt look like hes going to change his game any time soon.


Well, for what its worth, there was no way he was going to change his game under Obie. No question about that. 

I'm optimistic though. 

I'm also pretty optimistic about this team's ability to play defense, not this season, but in the next few years. Banks is an absolute ball hound. Wasn't he the WAC Defensive POY? Once he learns what he can and can't get away with as far as the officials go, he'll be a great on the ball defender. Davis too. Yeah, he needs to be more disciplined on the weak side, but that can be learned.
Pierce is solid. Jiri is a great on the ball defender, though still needs to feel out the refs. Hunter will be good, especially on the boards. Raef and Mihm should be adequate at the five spot. Still not sure about Perkins. And hopefully they'll use their mid level this offseason and go after a PJ Brown style PF - defense and boards. Swift, Thomas, Keon Clark come to mind.

Take that nucleus, add in some draft picks and a prime time FA when Vin's money comes off and BAM we are the Kings of the Eastern Conference. A running team, with good shooters, big men who can pass the rock, a deep front court, and good on the ball defenders. Sure, the Kings analogy is a big time stretch, but IMO that's what Danny eventually wants this team to be like.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*damn*



> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, for what its worth, there was no way he was going to change his game under Obie. No question about that.
> ...


And I thought Philly fans were bad...wat a joke


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

As Big John said a while ago, Michael Redd and Toni Kucko (sp) for Paul Pierce is a pretty good deal. Michael Redd is a scorer and one of the best shooters in the NBA. He can handle the ball better the Pierce and he plays good defense. Toni has a big contract going off the books and we can get a nice player in FA for him. (Carlos Boozer)


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> As Big John said a while ago, Michael Redd and Toni Kucko (sp) for Paul Pierce is a pretty good deal. Michael Redd is a scorer and one of the best shooters in the NBA. He can handle the ball better the Pierce and he plays good defense. Toni has a big contract going off the books and we can get a nice player in FA for him. (Carlos Boozer)


I'm not sure what the big deal is about Redd. He's a better shooter than Pierce, but that's about it. I wouldn't mind having Kukoc as a veteran leader, but I wouldn't want to give up Pierce for that. 

People seem to forget how well Pierce has played before this year. He's been unstoppable at times. If he wanted to score, he could score. If not from the field, then from the line. People say it's because Walker was playing with him. That may be partially true, but after Walker left and all these trades happened, Pierce's style of play changed. In the past, if he drove to the basket, he would finish somehow. Now, he looks to pass more often than not. It's a good skill to have, but his aggressiveness has diminished. I think that has to do with the personnel surrounding him, and OB's coaching. Pierce was made the leader by default, but he's not a leader. That's not his fault. He's trying, but it's just not in him. The best player on the team doesn't necessarily have to be the leader. Eric Williams was better suited to that, but now he's gone. Pierce is not yet comfortable with his teammates. In the past, even if there were trades, there was still a core of 7 or 8 guys who remained intact. Now that Baker's gone, there are more former Cavs on the team than past Celtics. 

But despite all the changes and poor coaching, a lot of Pierce's numbers are still going up. Who's to say that with a stable nucleus of players and a better coach that Pierce won't return to his old form? I don't think continually changing personnel and getting rid of the star player will help this team now or in the future. Pierce needs to adapt and work on a lot of things to fit in to the new philosophy, but he doesn't need to leave for the team to be successful. With the departure of OB, maybe he'll be more open to change.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

The two big deals about Redd are (1) even though he isn't as individually skilled as Pierce, he may fit better into an uptempo offense, and (2) he makes $3M per year in contrast to Pierce's $11M. That would give the Celtics another $8M to spend on someone else. Also Redd is signed at $3M for two more years while Pierce will be getting the maximum increases.

But don't worry, Pierce fans. Milwaukee might have done the Redd/Kukoc deal two months ago but they would never do it now. Redd is playing too well, and Kukoc gives them great cap flexibility just in time for the free agent signing period.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> The two big deals about Redd are (1) even though he isn't as individually skilled as Pierce, he may fit better into an uptempo offense, and (2) he makes $3M per year in contrast to Pierce's $11M. That would give the Celtics another $8M to spend on someone else. Also Redd is signed at $3M for two more years while Pierce will be getting the maximum increases.
> 
> But don't worry, Pierce fans. Milwaukee might have done the Redd/Kukoc deal two months ago but they would never do it now. Redd is playing too well, and Kukoc gives them great cap flexibility just in time for the free agent signing period.








Sorry John, we are not Pierce fans, we are die hard fans and do not want to trade our franchise player for a non franchise caliber player. Get over it, we aren't winning anytime soon, Pierce will be here forever, and people advocating trading him and not building around him are out of their mind, right now we are struggling because our team is ridiculously out of wack, it's like a freak show, injuries, trades, alcoholism, coaching changes, and you wanna trade our star? Please.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Yes, Pierce will probably be here forever. Ainge will never be able to trade him for what most Boston fans would perceive to be equal value.

The Magic (TMac), Sixers (Iverson) and Raptors (Carter) have the same problem. Along with the Celtics, these teams are dog and pony shows with only one dog. They will never win, because any good NBA coach can construct defenses to neutralize a single player.

But the fans idolize these players. "How could we possibly trade our franchise player!!" they scream, citing ppg averages and a whole bunch of statistics that mean nothing. Why is it surprising that Pierce averages 23 ppg? He has the ball on 80% of the Celtics possessions and usually takes 20+ shots a game.

Look at the Patriots. They have no single outstanding receiver or running back. Brady spreads the offense around-- if a guy is open, that's where he delivers the ball. Teams like that are very difficult to defend. It's no different in basketball. The Auerbach Celtics never had anyone close to the league lead in scoring. They just had 6 guys averaging in double figures. Plus a rebounder, of course, to get them the ball.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*hahahahahah*

Michael Redd?? hahahahahahahahahahahaha


that may be the funniest thing I have heard.
oh yeah their is Kukoc too....


hahahahahahah

Instead of trading your franchise player, try to make moves to acquire talent around him.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Yes, Pierce will probably be here forever. Ainge will never be able to trade him for what most Boston fans would perceive to be equal value.
> 
> The Magic (TMac), Sixers (Iverson) and Raptors (Carter) have the same problem. Along with the Celtics, these teams are dog and pony shows with only one dog. They will never win, because any good NBA coach can construct defenses to neutralize a single player.
> ...


Well, he has to have the ball 80% of the time. Who else?

Everything you are saying makes sense. They should have kept walker. The team would have been alot more successful this season with him instead of the stiff lafrentz they got.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Perhaps they should have kept Walker and traded Pierce. Last Summer they might have gotten a player like Shawn Marion for Pierce, but not now.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Shawn*

COME ON JOHN.

Shawn Marion? Lets be serious here. They should have kept both, and tried to acquire some time of low post player.

The walker / pierce 1-2 punch was tough. 


Shawn Marion? Come on man. Thats ridiculous


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*nope*



> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Perhaps they should have kept Walker and traded Pierce. Last Summer they might have gotten a player like Shawn Marion for Pierce, but not now.


Walker is not a player that can play and carry a team by himself. Pierce is, if he has alittle more than he has now. The team is a joke.

I am not dissing Antoine, but he and Pierce played well TOGETHER. Each fed of one another, and it was tough to double team both of them. It was one or the other, and whoever got doubled could hook the other up.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: damn*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> And I thought Philly fans were bad...wat a joke


You're the joke for talking **** and not backing it up.

If you think I'm wrong, show me why.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> As Big John said a while ago, Michael Redd and Toni Kucko (sp) for Paul Pierce is a pretty good deal. Michael Redd is a scorer and one of the best shooters in the NBA. He can handle the ball better the Pierce and he plays good defense. Toni has a big contract going off the books and we can get a nice player in FA for him. (Carlos Boozer)


That is absolutely insane.

Net result: Boozer and Redd for Pierce?

Are you kidding?

There are probably 10-15 players in the NBA that can straight up take over a game, and we are fortunate to have one of them. He has a good head on his shoulders for the most part, doesn't get in to trouble, and is starting to assert himself as a team leader. 

Paul is the franchise.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

I want to see if Pierce can play in an uptempo offense first! If he cant I am willing to trade him!
Yes, he is a top 15 player in this legue but he isnt a leader or a winner! He is trying to be one but he just isnt born for this! 
He needs a leader next to him to make him better (someone like Walker) cause he cant lead a team by himself!


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*ha ha ha*



> Originally posted by <b>theBirdman</b>!
> I want to see if Pierce can play in an uptempo offense first! If he cant I am willing to trade him!
> Yes, he is a top 15 player in this legue but he isnt a leader or a winner! He is trying to be one but he just isnt born for this!
> He needs a leader next to him to make him better (someone like Walker) cause he cant lead a team by himself!


haha.

Please point to evidence to show Antoine Walker is this almighty Leader that you make him to be.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: damn*



> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> 
> 
> You're the joke for talking **** and not backing it up.
> ...


I accidently hit quote. I didn't mean to quote you.

sorry adamatic. Don't get your panties in a bundle it was a mistake.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: nope*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> Please point to evidence to show Antoine Walker is this almighty Leader that you make him to be.


What do you mean Pierce is a leader? He hasn't proven anything of that sort so far into this season. Walker has this season and in previous season. Remember Game 3 of the 2002 playoffs against New Jersey. Replay evidence has shown Walker was the one to criticize Paul on his effort and to motivate him to the "Greatest Comeback in NBA Playoffs History". Now you say Walker is less of a leader. 

*No One Player Can Lead A Team To Greatness By Himself* 

Look at Championship teams. Tell me one team that didn't have a supporting cast. 

Please back up your statments.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theBirdman</b>!
> I want to see if Pierce can play in an uptempo offense first! If he cant I am willing to trade him!
> Yes, he is a top 15 player in this legue but he isnt a leader or a winner! He is trying to be one but he just isnt born for this!
> He needs a leader next to him to make him better (someone like Walker) cause he cant lead a team by himself!


Right!, I don't care if we trade Pierce or not. I just want the team to succeed.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> Right!, I don't care if we trade Pierce or not. I just want the team to succeed.


Well, then cheer the team on and be positive.


And i still do not agree with your Walker criteria. I dont think a player who played lazy and slow then was a leader. I think it was coach who had the team going.

And as I recall, I did not state that Pierce was the leader. Therefore I do not have to argue that point.


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## LUMPI-44 (Jan 23, 2004)

*interesting *

It looks like nowdays suddenly most of you are ready to trade pierce (just weks ago he lokked untachable)...and finally

you are going the right way

Let the rebuilding restart

trade: Pierce&La Frentz for Wallace

TEAM 04/05

PG BANKS
SG DAVIS
SF WELSCH
PF HUNTER
C MIHM

DRAFT PICKS AND FREE AGENTS TO FOLOW!!!

wHO CARE FOR BAD RESULT IN 04/05...THIS IT THE RIGHT WAY

TO THE CHAMPIONSHIP

GO AINGE!!!


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Redd - .....3/3
Kukoc - ..9.6/1
Pierce - 13.2/4 (Without a 16M Player Option)

Kukoc is off the books. We're saving 10.2 million per year.


*Milwaukee trades:* 
SF Toni Kukoc (8.9 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.9 apg in 21.5 minutes) 
SG Michael Redd (21.7 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 37.5 minutes) 

Milwaukee receives:

SG Paul Pierce (23.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 38.7 minutes) 

Change in team outlook: -7.6 ppg, -2.1 rpg, and +0.3 apg. 


*Boston trades:* 
SG Paul Pierce (23.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 38.7 minutes) 

Boston receives: 

SF Toni Kukoc (8.9 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.9 apg in 35 games) 
SG Michael Redd (21.7 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 44 games) 

Change in team outlook: +7.6 ppg, +2.1 rpg, and -0.3 apg.


We would be saving 18 million next year. We could sign a Max Player..or we could Sign a Rebounder and wait for 2005. Carlos Boozer averages a Double/Double: 14/11

Michael Redd & Carlos Boozer: 35.7...16.3...4.4

Paul Pierce:..............................23...7...5.5 

+12.7 in points...+9.3 in rebounds...-1.1 in assists.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> Redd - .....3/3
> Kukoc - ..9.6/1
> Pierce - 13.2/4 (Without a 16M Player Option)
> ...


And we thought Ainge was a bad gm.. YIKES


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: interesting *



> Originally posted by <b>LUMPI-44</b>!
> It looks like nowdays suddenly most of you are ready to trade pierce (just weks ago he lokked untachable)...and finally
> 
> you are going the right way
> ...


Oh yeah, that is a great lineup. I am sure that team would take the city to the promise land.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*my take*

I am sick and tired of hearing Pierce trade ideas.

It is just ridiculous. There are teams that would love to have a superstar to watch and and enjoy and support every night. Its ridiculous.


I am going to say one thing. For all you Pierce abandoners and bashers, Just remember what you were saying. When Paul takes over in the Playoffs and gets back on track and hits the game winners don't claim your happy for him. Half the posts I read on this board are negative, which isn't a bad thing, but for the most part is a disgrace to Paul. I wish the franchise could have traded Paul instead for one week, and could take a look at how s&^&^ the team would be. 

So quote me on what I said. Don't be back up supporting for a player who you abandoned and dissed for weeks. 

And let take this opportunity to respond to the kukoc and redd trade ideas. 
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: damn*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> I accidently hit quote. I didn't mean to quote you.
> ...


DOH!

My bad.

Sorry for the jerkoff reaction.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> Redd - .....3/3
> Kukoc - ..9.6/1
> Pierce - 13.2/4 (Without a 16M Player Option)
> ...



Stats added up like that don't mean -jack- in the NBA. 

That logic is so retarded I don't even know where to start.


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## LUMPI-44 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Re: interesting *



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> I am sick and tired of hearing Pierce trade ideas.
> 
> It is just ridiculous. There are teams that would love to have a superstar to watch and and enjoy and support every night. Its ridiculous.



 
What a shock...Boston has a superstar..great for you, just relax, sit down and enjoy 
 

Ups, wake up it is 2010 and Pierce is stil fighting for the second round in playoffs

What an improvement... and all for the sake of having a great time in watching "our"superstar"


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh: :laugh:


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: damn*



> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> 
> 
> DOH!
> ...


No prob buddy!


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: interesting *



> Originally posted by <b>LUMPI-44</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really, really, didn't understand what you are trying to get at here.


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## LUMPI-44 (Jan 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> I really, really, didn't understand what you are trying to get at here.


THE_MEDIOCRE_TRUTH34


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: nope*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> Walker is not a player that can play and carry a team by himself. Pierce is,


Is that what he is doing this year?
Give me a break. Pierce isn't crrying this team anywhere.

Players like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were so successful because they made the players around them better. Pierce has made nobody better. (I know they each had other players but just because both of them were on the floor with their respective teams helped make players like Parish and Mchale become the players they were.


Someone on page two mentioned that we should trade Pierce for Dirk.

Sounds good to me. Pierce and Walker back together again with a real point guard along with Finley and the rookie and his defense Josh Howard.

Dallas wouldn't do it (Dirk is God in Dallas)
but what fun that would be.



I would trade Pierce for Kobe in a second but Kobe would never stay here.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: nope*



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> Is that what he is doing this year?
> ...


How about quoting me on a full statement? That would be fair. Thanks.

"Pierce is, if he has alittle more than he has now. The team is a joke."

I don't care what a leader could do. The talent level is garbage. Walker, Pierce, Dirk ex, nobody could lead a team to the promise land without a decent supporting cast. Give me a team that won a championship in the last 15 years with 1 superstar and a mediocre supporting cast.

I agree to a degree about Bird and Magic, but the talent they had to work with was 10x the talent we have now. Don't even make that an argument. You and I both know that.


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## sportsfan (Jan 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Why should they keep him? Pierce obviously cant carry this team by himself, so time to try something new.


The key words here are "by himself". Look at the talent around him, when your starting lineup includes Mark Blount & Chris Mihm you've got talent problems.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

I'm not sure how many bad or mediocre games (another one tonight against the Pistons) it's going to take before folks realize that Pierce isn't that good.

Once thing about these "trade Pierce" threads: they attract the guys with names like "Truth34" "theTruth34" "daPierce", etc. etc. like a dead horse attracts flies.

Don't worry, Danny won't trade him because he can't. The league already knows what you guys don't.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: nope*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> How about quoting me on a full statement? That would be fair. Thanks.


Your statement says it all. Just because you back track your biased opinion doesn't mean you didn't say it.
You talk out of both sides of your mouth. lol
Just because you say one nice thing after you insult someone (usually Walker but at last he isn't here. I haven't seen your "well what did they do last night" comments in their 9 game winning streak. LMAO)

This is your quote below and it is a blatant lie. Pierce can't carry any team. He proves that night in and night out.
Talent was more of course in the 80's but Larry helped make Kevin and Robert the players they were. Pierce isn't turning anyone into a great player.

Last years post season Walker and Delk carried the team and Pierce came in during the forth quarter and took all the credit.




Originally posted by TheTruth34!


Walker is not a player that can play and carry a team by himself. Pierce is,


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

If we trade Pierce we'll blow everything up...keep him.

I think Pierce is a hell of a player, but just does stupid mistakes.
I don't think he's a superstar as Kobe and McGrady are, but he's on a great level. He plays D, he plays O very nicly. He doesn't go and give you 30 points a night like he did the last few years, but he's had it a lot tougher by himself this year. Sure he's got a deep roster around him, but none of those players are Walker, nor do they benefit Pierce as Walker did. Ricky Davis comes as close to a offensive thread as Walker was...maybe he's even a better offensive player, BUT Pierce and Davis play the same position, which hurts both of their productions.

Pierce needs to learn not to be thickheaded, he believe's he's the only guy who can win and lose a game for this team, which makes this team very un-enjoyable...one player having the ball in his hands 80% of the time?

Pierce is a very good scorer, and the leagues BEST scorer when he's hot, but when he's cold, he's just so horrendous to watch. He needs to learn some things before he can do others. 

What I think Paul needs to do is, well he needs to go back to last years Paul, stop reading the "How to be a leader" crap, and stop trying so hard to get a rebound and especially an assist. You can't force things, you can't get a tripple double every night, you can't do everything by yourself ESPECIALLY when you try so hard to do it. He needs to let the rebounds and assists come naturally. He tries so hard to set his teamates up that he doesn't shoot a easy shot, that he can make, and gives it to McCarty for a wide open 3 (chunk!!!).

I hate watching Pierce try so hard, if he'd let the things come to him, instead of trying to go to them, he'd help this team much more.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

By the way, the same user who started this thread made a thread in the Raptor forum about Vince being traded. Is this dude destined to go to every forum and make a trade thread against each allstar?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> By the way, the same user who started this thread made a thread in the Raptor forum about Vince being traded. Is this dude destined to go to every forum and make a trade thread against each allstar?


He's probably just wondering what both teams think about it. Its like asking Celtics fans do you want Pierce for TD or KG, everyone would say yes...but now we don't know what the Spurs/Wolves fans would think (although we know what the answer is. ).


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> I'm not sure how many bad or mediocre games (another one tonight against the Pistons) it's going to take before folks realize that Pierce isn't that good.
> 
> Once thing about these "trade Pierce" threads: they attract the guys with names like "Truth34" "theTruth34" "daPierce", etc. etc. like a dead horse attracts flies.
> ...


You said a whole bunch without saying anything at all.

Explain to me why, in detailed terms, Paul "isn't that good".


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*well*

Tell me how 

26 pts. 5 rebounds, 7 assists is bad?

His team is one of the worst starting lineups in the LEAGUE.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

I am sick and tired of this Pierce crap! 

I dont care if he averages a triple double if we lose and play horrible basketball. This is not about Pierce its about the Celtics! It is just sad that some of you only care about Pierces stats and not about the way this team plays. In my eyes you are not true Celtics fans! 

It is OK if you have a favourite player on a team but you have to be objective and you should always put the teams intrests infront of individual players stats! Anyone is tradable and should be traded if it is for the best of the team, whether his name is Walter McCarty, Paul Pierce or the Pope!


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*nobody*

nobody (especially me) care only about pierce.

However, he is a key ingredient to the celtics franchise, and when people diss him constantly i want to defend him.


celtics all the way man


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> If we trade Pierce we'll blow everything up...keep him.
> 
> I think Pierce is a hell of a player, but just does stupid mistakes.
> ...








Good views aqua.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> Tell me how
> 
> 26 pts. 5 rebounds, 7 assists is bad?
> ...


Disagree and Agree..

First of all, its 23/7/5.5...

Secondly, I can get that with the amount of time he has the ball (exaggerating). He has the ball all the time, and our frontcourt does rebound well, so he does all the defensive rebounds and walks the ball up court KILLING our fast break..

We need a rebounder..


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> 
> 
> You said a whole bunch without saying anything at all.
> ...


Because some people talk about him like he's God.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

If Pierce continues to play the way he has been, I'm going to start a "Trade Pierce" thread every so often, just to remind folks that he is just another good player.

How about Pierce straight up for AK-47? I do not think the salaries have to match because Utah is under the cap. So our starting 5 would be:

Mihm/Blount
Kirilenko
Welsch
Davis
Banks/James


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> If Pierce continues to play the way he has been, I'm going to start a "Trade Pierce" thread every so often, just to remind folks that he is just another good player.
> 
> How about Pierce straight up for AK-47? I do not think the salaries have to match because Utah is under the cap. So our starting 5 would be:
> ...


[strike]shutup[/strike]

No. ---agoo


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: nobody*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> nobody (especially me) care only about pierce.
> 
> However, he is a key ingredient to the celtics franchise, and when people diss him constantly i want to defend him.
> ...


Is this why you tolf Big John to shut up when he said we should trade Pierce?

No one is buying that you are a Celtics fan.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> If Pierce continues to play the way he has been, I'm going to start a "Trade Pierce" thread every so often, just to remind folks that he is just another good player.
> 
> How about Pierce straight up for AK-47? I do not think the salaries have to match because Utah is under the cap. So our starting 5 would be:
> ...


IMO, you are really underrating having a guy who can and will take a shot to win or tie a game.

Really, when's the last time a team won the finals without a huge star player or two?


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> 
> 
> IMO, you are really underrating having a guy who can and will take a shot to win or tie a game.


I'd rather have three guys who could take that shot (Ricky, Jiri or AK) and keep the defense guessing as to which one.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> I'd rather have three guys who could take that shot (Ricky, Jiri or AK) and keep the defense guessing as to which one.



Me too, Ricky, Jiri and Paul.

Ainge iterated in this teleconference that he's going to want a coach who better utilizes Paul's skills. And when that happens, this team is going to start to gel.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>adamatic</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not me, because all 3 play the same position, and realistically, only 2 will be in the game at any one time, unless Jiri is at the point (Ainge mentionned that in his call too). 


AK is 6-10. He is a threat inside and outside. And he's a great defender too. You have better balance with my lineup-- and a much lower payroll to boot.

In fact, I really have to thank all of you Pierce fans for helping me organize my thoughts on this topic, and the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Pierce ought to go. The problem is getting some other team to take him in return for a player like Redd or Kirilenko. Other teams (and their fans) would love to have him, but not if they have to give up someone really valuable.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

I guess what I don't understand about all these notions of trading Pierce is that he's made out to be a lot worse than he is. I watch every game. I watch every player. Pierce makes mistakes. There are a lot of things he needs to change in order to help the team get better. However, none of these things are beyond his abilities. I think the right coach and a better effort on the part of the other players could easily fix the situation. This doesn't relieve Pierce from responsibility, but his biggest problem is that he thinks he has to do it alone. He doesn't and shouldn't have to do it alone. What Walker did to make Pierce's life easier was to get Pierce the ball in the right places. They knew each other well. Pierce can't create for himself well when double teamed. Pierce has nobody like Walker playing with him right now. Defenses will gamble on leaving anyone open except Pierce. That wasn't true when Walker was around. Nobody can pass the ball like Walker. Those two things make a huge difference. I'm not saying they necessarily need another star, but if they work to get Pierce the ball like Walker did and had another consistent scoring threat, Pierce would be much better off. 

Everybody says they'd trade Pierce for Kobe in a heartbeat. Kobe has always had Shaq. When Shaq had the toe problem last year, the Lakers sucked. Kobe's numbers went up, but the team still didn't do well. Kobe can't do it alone. T-Mac can't do it alone. Carter can't do it alone. KG can't do it alone. Even Shaq can't do it alone. The only person I can think of in recent times who's had moderate success carrying a team is Iverson. Even then, it never won the Sixers a championship. How the hell do people expect Pierce to carry a team when only 2 other players (not counting Baker) average double figures, and even then, just barely? Even the Magic have 4 players in double figures with Giricek just a tenth point shy of being the fifth. The Sixers have five. Even the Bulls have five. 

I'd also like to point out that Pierce does a lot of other things besides score that I don't see from very many players. The best way I can describe them are "Tommy Points". Things that don't show up on a stat sheet. Pierce will sacrifice his body a lot more than most stars. The only guy I'd put ahead of him in that regard is Iverson. I also can't think of many guards who have the range of skills that Pierce has. I know it sounds like I'm making Pierce out to be a god. I'm not. He has several flaws. It's just that I really don't think he has any more flaws than any other player of his caliber, and if he does, he makes up for them in other ways. He also had fewer flaws when Walker was around, so I know he's capable of better basketball. I don't know how people can expect him to handle the numerous changes that have gone on with the Celtics without a hiccup. And I don't know how people can expect a trade to address all the problems the Celtics are having right now. Replacing Pierce won't make all the other players suddenly play great. The only instance in recent times of that happening was when Kidd joined the Nets, and I know we're not going to get Kidd. 

Part of me wishes Pierce would get traded just to make people realize that he's not the problem, but then that's stupid to wish for something just to prove a point. Trading Walker turned out to be the best thing for Walker but didn't help the Celtics much at all. It would be the same for Pierce.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

Amen to that mrsister.

I really feel that at some point later this year, probably early next year at the latest, Pierce and all the younger guys will fall in to much more defined roles. He'll come to know how much he has to do once the team gains stability. 

Heck, think about it, on this current roster he's now lost his starting 4 and 5 to injuries, both of which were the only two players on the team, besides Davis, who've ever logged significant minutes. Just about everyone he's playing with are new to the team, some are rookies. 
Mike James, Chris Mihm, and Mark Blount have never played this many minutes, Jiri Welsch is just about a rookie, leaving the only contributor who Paul has experience playing with, none other than Mr Walter '39.5% from the field, hey isn't that what our PF shot last year' McCarty. It's not a wonder Obie was playing him so much.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> I guess what I don't understand about all these notions of trading Pierce is that he's made out to be a lot worse than he is. I watch every game. I watch every player. Pierce makes mistakes. There are a lot of things he needs to change in order to help the team get better. However, none of these things are beyond his abilities. I think the right coach and a better effort on the part of the other players could easily fix the situation. This doesn't relieve Pierce from responsibility, but his biggest problem is that he thinks he has to do it alone. He doesn't and shouldn't have to do it alone. What Walker did to make Pierce's life easier was to get Pierce the ball in the right places. They knew each other well. Pierce can't create for himself well when double teamed. Pierce has nobody like Walker playing with him right now. Defenses will gamble on leaving anyone open except Pierce. That wasn't true when Walker was around. Nobody can pass the ball like Walker. Those two things make a huge difference. I'm not saying they necessarily need another star, but if they work to get Pierce the ball like Walker did and had another consistent scoring threat, Pierce would be much better off.
> 
> Everybody says they'd trade Pierce for Kobe in a heartbeat. Kobe has always had Shaq. When Shaq had the toe problem last year, the Lakers sucked. Kobe's numbers went up, but the team still didn't do well. Kobe can't do it alone. T-Mac can't do it alone. Carter can't do it alone. KG can't do it alone. Even Shaq can't do it alone. The only person I can think of in recent times who's had moderate success carrying a team is Iverson. Even then, it never won the Sixers a championship. How the hell do people expect Pierce to carry a team when only 2 other players (not counting Baker) average double figures, and even then, just barely? Even the Magic have 4 players in double figures with Giricek just a tenth point shy of being the fifth. The Sixers have five. Even the Bulls have five.
> ...


A very written analysis. I agree almost 100 percent man. 

One player cannot win it. I said that in the same post, a few back.

Give me one team who a championship with stars and other players the with the capability of the rest of the celtics.. NONE. You have to have a great star and players that play well around him You cant just blame the superstar. Look at AI he almost did it.

Tmac can't
Carter can't
Iverson almost did
Kobe couldnt without Shaq


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

Guys i believe style can help pierce, but paul needs to be told to limit his role on the team. He simply cannot be a pg, he needs to handle the ball less. His teamates also need to step up and take the load off..


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