# Carmelo Anthony



## Kunlun

He's the real deal. He should've gone #1. He is that damn good. He is tearing apart the preseason. He is averaging 18 and 5 shooting 50%. Somebody before me said this before: Lebron is Hakeem, Milicic is Bowie, and Carmelo is Jordan.


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## hobojoe

Carmello is a Glenn Robinson/Antawn Jamison, and thats it. It's not a bad thing, but he's no Jordan.


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## Kunlun

I was using that draft class as an example of what is yet to come not as a comparism of players.


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## Charlotte_______

Your getting ahead of yourself. I admit he is damn good and will be an awesome pro, but this is preseason, and its not going to be a walk in the park when the regular season rolls around.


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## Kunlun

This is how I feel about him. He is only really a few months older than Lebron and that much better.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>KL Dawger</b>!
> I was using that draft class as an example of what is yet to come not as a comparism of players.


I realize that, but he will not be a great player.


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## Kunlun

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> 
> 
> I realize that, but he will not be a great player.


We shall see.


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## Kunlun

Hey check this out


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## ltrain99

I thik some1 who doesn't expact Melo to blwo up immeadiately doesn't know what's going on. Nor does any1 who expects him to improve a great deal over his career. There is no doubt in my mind he's the best rookie currently, but he is very polished, and has little room for improvement. While both Bron and Darko are quite raw and can becoem much better. I think he will be a very good player, but both Bron and Darko will be hall of famers.


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## Kunlun

I bet Carmelo is smarter than Lebron and Darko too. Intelligence wise and basketball IQ wise. He will be better. Believe in him.


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## "Matt!"

> Originally posted by <b>KL Dawger</b>!
> I bet Carmelo is smarter than Lebron and Darko too. Intelligence wise and basketball IQ wise. He will be better. Believe in him.


Yeah, like when he was forced to enter the draft because his GPA was so low he couldn't stay academically eligible! 

I could get 1.6 without even showing up to class.


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## Johnny Mac

Carmelo will be an excellent player. But it is just preseason, and he is pretty young. Dont be surprised if he goes through stretches where he struggles a bit during the season. 

I dont think he'll improve nearly as much over the next 5 years as Lebron and Darko though.


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## Kunlun

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, like when he was forced to enter the draft because his GPA was so low he couldn't stay academically eligible!
> 
> I could get 1.6 without even showing up to class.


Maybe because he was busy winning a championship.


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## whiterhino

I don't know why anyone would doubt Melo, and how anyone could say a 19 year old kid won't get better is silly. He may not have gotten LeBron's type of hype but coming out of high school he was HIGHLY coveted. No one thought he'd go to college but to the draft, he went to Syracuse and surprised people by that. Then he won an NCAA championship with a team NO ONE expected to go anywhere near that level. Melo is for real, HE will be a hall of famer. He's just getting started and adjusting to the NBA and putting up AWESOME stats, I don't care that it's pre-season, no other rookie is doing what he is. Go ahead and keep doubting him, I think it makes him better, he'll show you.


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## Kunlun

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Carmelo will be an excellent player. But it is just preseason, and he is pretty young. Dont be surprised if he goes through stretches where he struggles a bit during the season.
> 
> I dont think he'll improve nearly as much over the next 5 years as Lebron and Darko though.


Of course. Right now Lebron and Darko are two rolls of ****. It's hard not to improve upon that. Yes, I understand it's preseason, but i expect this to continue on to the regular season. He will go through stretches where he sucks, but he will get over it quick.


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## ltrain99

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> I don't know why anyone would doubt Melo, and how anyone could say a 19 year old kid won't get better is silly. He may not have gotten LeBron's type of hype but coming out of high school he was HIGHLY coveted. No one thought he'd go to college but to the draft, he went to Syracuse and surprised people by that. Then he won an NCAA championship with a team NO ONE expected to go anywhere near that level. Melo is for real, HE will be a hall of famer. He's just getting started and adjusting to the NBA and putting up AWESOME stats, I don't care that it's pre-season, no other rookie is doing what he is. Go ahead and keep doubting him, I think it makes him better, he'll show you.


It is the opposite of doubting him. I'm saying what an incrdible player he is right now,a nd how it's unheard of a 19 year old is that polished. I'm just saying common sense tells you that the way he is playing like a vet, that there is very little room for improvement. I don't get how saying some1 is 1 of the best rookies ther has ever been is an insult. Watching Brona nd Darko they are far from having the veteran like play he has, and common sense tells you they will get much better, like 95% of rookies.


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## CP26

I think Carmelo is better also. If he is better why wasn't he picked first?


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## Kunlun

> Originally posted by <b>popeyejones54</b>!
> I think Carmelo is better also. If he is better why wasn't he picked first?


Why wasn't Jordan picked first? Who knows?


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## CP26

> Originally posted by <b>KL Dawger</b>!
> 
> 
> Why wasn't Jordan picked first? Who knows?


I don't know either. What happened to Hakeem Olajuwon? Whats he doing now?


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## double3peat

Anyone who is doubting LeBron allready is a complete idiot... I mean I'll leave the possibility for Carmelo to be better because anything can happen, but the bottom line is LeBron has more talent. If you've been a basketball fan for more then 2 weeks then you know that HS players take a lot longer to come into their own then college players. And you can say Melo only has a few months on LeBron but he still had the college level experienece, which is a much higher level of play then HS.


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## Charlotte_______

Don't you mean Bowie?


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## Kunlun

> Originally posted by <b>double3peat</b>!
> Anyone who is doubting LeBron allready is a complete idiot... I mean I'll leave the possibility for Carmelo to be better because anything can happen, but the bottom line is LeBron has more talent. If you've been a basketball fan for more then 2 weeks then you know that HS players take a lot longer to come into their own then college players. And you can say Melo only has a few months on LeBron but he still had the college level experienece, which is a much higher level of play then HS.


I never said Lebron would turn out bad. I never doubted him. I said that he would have Hakeem Olajuwon accomplishments while Carmelo will have Jordan ones. Not saying exactly the same. But, similar to comparism with the two.


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## CP26

> Originally posted by <b>Charlotte_______</b>!
> Don't you mean Bowie?


and him.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

> Originally posted by <b>popeyejones54</b>!
> I think Carmelo is better also. If he is better why wasn't he picked first?





> Originally posted by <b>KL Dawger</b>!
> Why wasn't Jordan picked first? Who knows?





> Originally posted by <b>popeyejones54</b>!
> 
> I don't know either. What happened to Hakeem Olajuwon? Whats he doing now?


You're kidding about Hakeem the Dream, right? I mean, like Jordan, he is a "Top 50" player and a sure first round hall of famer.

Hakeem has had a nice little career for himself


There are a couple of reasons Jordan dropped to #3. First of all, convention says you take a big with the top pick, if there is a superstar caliber big available. You can't fault Houston for going with Olajuwon. He had a stellar college career at Houston the famed "Phi Slama Jama" teams with Clyde Drexler. Plus he was a hometown hero. Much like LeBron getting to stay in Ohio. Hakeem did not disappoint.

Check out the stats link above. You will find:

Career avg. 21 ppg/11.1rpg/3.09 bpg
26,000+ points
12,000+ rebounds
NBA record 3,830 blocks
7th alltime in scoring
2 NBA championships, 3 Finals appearances



The Blazers took Bowie for 2 reasons. First, he looked like he was going to be a quality center -- 7'1" out of Kentucky, and truly great bigs don't come around every draft. Bowie showed promise at being a solid 7 foot player.

Plus, Portland didn't need an off guard, because they already had Clyde the Glide. Again, you can't fault Portland, since Clyde is another Top 50 player. He had a great career. They felt they needed a center more than they needed an off guard.

Bowie may well have been a good center, but starting early on, he suffered a series of leg injuries which limited his effectiveness. So he turned out to be a bust, but who could have known? He played in the league several years, but those injuries limited his effectiveness.

So Chicago got Jordan. The truth is, Chicago didn't want Jordan. They felt they needed a center to build around, but at #3, the best big men -- Hakeem and Bowie -- were already gone.

Everyone knew MJ had a good freshman year playing on a James Worthy-led North Carolina team, he had a breakout Sophomore year and he made a game winning shot in the NCAA finals. Still, nobody could have predicted that MJ was going to elevate his game to the extent he did.

*Then Bulls GM Rod Thorn was almost apologetic after drafting Michael.*

Here's his famous quote:

We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player." 
-- Rod Thorn, then Bulls general manager, after selecting Jordan in the 1984 NBA Draft (Chicago Tribune, June 20, 1984)


As to the topic at hand, this is the strongest 1-2-3 draft that I can recall. I think LeBron, Darko and 'Melo are all going to have outstanding careers. Will any of the three become game-changing superstars, like Wilt or Kareem or Magic or Larry or Michael? Too soon to tell.


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## Amareca

I think Carmello will be a Jamison/Robinson/Mashburn type of player but not a superstar franchise type of player.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> I think Carmello will be a Jamison/Robinson/Mashburn type of player but not a superstar franchise type of player.


What is the basis of your opinion?


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## Amareca

On seeing him play? He looks simply like a Glen Robinson clone.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

I wonder what you would have said about that skinny rookie from North Carolina who had a weak J, relied too much on his flashy dunks and wouldn't pass the ball? Heck, his own GM didn't think he was a franchise player.

You may end up being right, you may end up being wrong. But I think you are dismissing "superstar" potential too early, based on too little evidence. 

Plus, of the "Big 3" of the 2003 draft, 'Melo is clearly having the stongest preseason, especially as a shooter. Are you dismissing Darko and LeBron as well?


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## shazha

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> Here's his famous quote:
> 
> We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player."
> -- Rod Thorn, then Bulls general manager, after selecting Jordan in the 1984 NBA Draft (Chicago Tribune, June 20, 1984)
> 
> .


are u f-in serrrrrrrious?? Rod thorne said that?? ok no one knows how a player will turn out, but to judge that they wont turn a franchise around is almost crushing a players confidence and limiting their ability. 

Good on jordan for taking it to heart and well doing what jordan does best, proving people wrong.


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## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>KL Dawger</b>!
> Hey check this out


Interesting read. Not having all of that hype certainly does make it <b>easier</b> for Carmelo to adapt to the rigors of the NBA schedule.

I have liked what I have seen from both rooks. I don't expect rooks to be as good as Bird or Magic (Even Mike wasn't that good!) were in their first year - but I do expect them both to become bona fide "stars" in the league.


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## FSH

People might be gettign ahead of them self..But Lebron looks like a lost 10 year old in a game of high school..He plays horrible..to many TO not enough points..Melo is doing alot better then Lebron and Melo i think will be better then Lebron..


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## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>Four_Season_Hustler</b>!
> People might be gettign ahead of them self..But Lebron looks like a lost 10 year old in a game of high school..He plays horrible..to many TO not enough points..Melo is doing alot better then Lebron and Melo i think will be better then Lebron..



Turnovers accumulate when you handle the ball a lot. I believe Magic himself averaged almost 4 turnovers per game - lifetime. 

I look at that as a stat only because sometimes the TO doesn't affect the w/l. The timing is always the important issue when it comes to TO's. Pierce has a load of TO's and sometimes they are at critical times ( last minute with a tight game on the line )in the game - but not always.


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## mysterio

> Originally posted by <b>KL Dawger</b>!
> He's the real deal. He should've gone #1. He is that damn good. He is tearing apart the preseason. He is averaging 18 and 5 shooting 50%. Somebody before me said this before: Lebron is Hakeem, Milicic is Bowie, and Carmelo is Jordan.


Wow. Right now we don't know jack-**** that Lebron will have as decorated a career as the Dream, and I think there is a very small chance Carmelo will approach the greatness of MJ. It's jumping the gun a little to make such extreme predictions. Carmelo is having an easy transition, but I see more of a Grant Hill comparison here rather than to Jordan. Perhaps the person who said this didn't realize how phenominal MJ's rookie year was. His success was unprecedented. And as for Hakeem, he was blocking around 3 shots, scoring over 20 points, and pulling 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. I seriously doubt any of the rookies this year will accomplish in their rookie year what these two have in their first year. No offense to whoever made that comparison, but it was a pretty dumb thing to say.


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## TheRifleman

*Re: Re: Carmelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>mysterio</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow. Right now we don't know jack-**** that Lebron will have as decorated a career as the Dream, and I think there is a very small chance Carmelo will approach the greatness of MJ. It's jumping the gun a little to make such extreme predictions. Carmelo is having an easy transition, but I see more of a Grant Hill comparison here rather than to Jordan. <b>Perhaps the person who said this didn't realize how phenominal MJ's rookie year was. His success was unprecedented. </b> And as for Hakeem, he was blocking around 3 shots, scoring over 20 points, and pulling 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. I seriously doubt any of the rookies this year will accomplish in their rookie year what these two have in their first year. No offense to whoever made that comparison, but it was a pretty dumb thing to say.


Nobody says that Mike's first year was unprecedented! Magic Johnson won the MVP of the finals - in his first year! Bird's team won 29 games the year before he came and he was the ONLY change! The Celtics won 62 his first year and took that team to the eastern conference finals when the east was so dominant!! 

Mike had neither of those accomplishments.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

*Re: Re: Re: Carmelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> Nobody says that Mike's first year was unprecedented! Magic Johnson won the MVP of the finals - in his first year! Bird's team won 29 games the year before he came and he was the ONLY change! The Celtics won 62 his first year and took that team to the eastern conference finals when the east was so dominant!!
> 
> Mike had neither of those accomplishments.



True. But in fairness, Magic came into a much better team than Michael did. (Kareem, Wikes, Norm Nixon. The Lakers ended up with the #1 pick not because they were bad, but using a pick owed to them by the lowly Jazz). 

Larry? He did it all, but I never really understood why the '78-9 Celtics had been so bad. They seemed to underperform more so than lack the talent to win. They were only 2 years past having won back to back titles. Larry certainly brought them together. Having Nate Archibald finally healthy helped. Dave Cowens was able to concentrate on just playing after being player/coach the previous year. New coach Bill Fitch's contribution to the turnaround should get some props. (But believe me I'm not undercutting Bird's magnificant performance -- it was the 79 NCAA's with Bird and Johnson and following them in their rookie seasons that turned me on to basketball when I was in junior high). I also think the 78 team was trying to adjust to playing without Havlicek and it took a season to modify the game plan and adjust.

Of the three, MJ clearly came on to the worst team as a rookie. They had nobody worth mentioning. Orlando Woolridge was solid. A young Q Dailey showed promise. Dave Corzine? Please... MJ did orchestrate an 11 win improvement and a return to the playoffs for the Bulls. Not as spectacular as Bird or Magic, but he had a heck of a lot less to work with.

All three had stellar rookie seasons individually.

Magic: 

18 ppg 7.7 rpg 7.3 apg .810 ft% in 36.3 mpg

Larry Legend:

21.3 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 4.5 apg .836 ft% 36 mpg

His Airness:

28.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg 5.9 apg .845 ft% 38.3 mpg

From this, we can see in terms of individual rookie performance that MJ was the most dominant scorer of the three and his team relied on him to be on the floor slightly more than the others. Larry is the only one to average a double double as a rook. Magic had the most well-rounded game.


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## MemphisX

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Then Bulls GM Rod Thorn was almost apologetic after drafting Michael.*
> 
> Here's his famous quote:
> 
> We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player."
> -- Rod Thorn, then Bulls general manager, after selecting Jordan in the 1984 NBA Draft (Chicago Tribune, June 20, 1984)


Thanks for the new sig....:grinning:


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

:laugh: 

Way back when, I had that as my sig. I kept it for a long time. Good to remember and keep things in perspective when you are making wild predictions about players.


Enjoy.


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## MemphisX

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Carmelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> True. But in fairness, Magic came into a much better team than Michael did. Larry? He did it all, but I never really understood why the '78-9 Celtics had been so bad. They seemed to underperform more so than lack the talent to win. Larry brought them together.
> 
> 
> All three had stellar rookie seasons individually.
> 
> Magic:
> 
> 18 ppg 7.7 rpg 7.3 apg .810 ft% in 36.3 mpg
> 
> Larry Legend:
> 
> 21.3 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 4.5 apg .836 ft% 36 mpg
> 
> His Airness:
> 
> 28.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg 5.9 apg .845 ft% 38.3 mpg
> 
> From this, we can see that MJ was the most dominant scorer of the three and his team relied on him to be on the floor slightly more than the others. Larry is the only one to average a double double as a rook. Magic had the most well-rounded game.


Can't compare stats because there just wasn't much defense even in the late 80's/early 90's. If you watch some of those classic games you see so many unchallenged layups/dunks it is funny. 

Now I think Lebron's numbers will be in the Magic range: 15pts, 6 boards, 5 assists, 42%FG, 75%FT...not bad.

It is funny that people are trying to say Bron is disappointing because he is not approaching Jordan number's, that is like saying Darko will be a disappointment if he doesn't put up Duncan number's this season....it's crazy.


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## Nevus

Hold on. LeBron is shooting badly, but he is playing well overall. Those of you who are saying he is playing like **** and looks lost and confused are making my head hurt. Have you seen any of the games or did you just look at his points in the box score?

He's playing very comfortably, taking shots in the flow of the offense, moving the ball well and finding his teammates, not forcing anything, playing pretty good defense, and he looks like a fair player overall at this point.

He's not shooting well or moving very well without the ball, but it's not fair at all to say he looks like a "lost 10 year old" or whatever someone said. 

Just because LeBron makes $100 million doesn't mean your opinions about him can't be based in reality... don't let the media attention and the money get to your head like that, it turns your opinions into ****.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

I agree Nevus. He looks pretty polished considering his age and lack of experience. Put a few miles on those sneakers and he is going to be spectacular.


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## futuristxen

I agree with TomBoerwinkle agreeing with Nevus.

Also you all need to bear in mind, it's only preseason. I wouldn't be at all suprised if Lebron plays the regular season a little diffrently since the games matter. I kind of doubt he'll care about working on his J in the regular season games like he seems intent on doing in the preseason. He's so quick and so strong, that he could get 15-20 a game just by going hard to the basket. And that'll up his assist total as well. I think right now he's using preseason more to improve and work on his weaknesses. Let's wait until at least the all-star break before we start making crazy predictions about who's a bust and who's not a bust. Lebron is going to be on TV like 13 times this season. We'll have an excellent idea of how good he actually is by the end of this season.

wait...is this thread supposed to be about Melo?


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## Minstrel

I concur with futuristxen agreeing with TomBoerwinkle agreeing with Nevus.

LeBron James hasn't shot well, but he's looked exactly the opposite of lost out there. He looks like he's been in the NBA for a few years, comfortable. He's looked polished and graceful...not awkward and uncertain.

If I were Silas, I, too, would want James throwing up as many perimeter shots as possible during the exhibition games. Let him shoot and miss and improve his one real weakness.


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## mysterio

*Re: Re: Re: Carmelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> Nobody says that Mike's first year was unprecedented! Magic Johnson won the MVP of the finals - in his first year! Bird's team won 29 games the year before he came and he was the ONLY change! The Celtics won 62 his first year and took that team to the eastern conference finals when the east was so dominant!!
> 
> Mike had neither of those accomplishments.


I'm aware of that. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word accomplishments. As far as numbers go, MJ had unheard of stats as a rookie.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> I think Carmello will be a Jamison/Robinson/Mashburn type of player but not a superstar franchise type of player.


That's a three-headed oxymoron. Choose one.


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## TheRifleman

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Carmelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> True. But in fairness, Magic came into a much better team than Michael did. (Kareem, Wikes, Norm Nixon. The Lakers ended up with the #1 pick not because they were bad, but using a pick owed to them by the lowly Jazz).
> 
> Larry? He did it all, but I never really understood why the '78-9 Celtics had been so bad. They seemed to underperform more so than lack the talent to win. They were only 2 years past having won back to back titles. Larry certainly brought them together. <b>Having Nate Archibald finally healthy helped. Dave Cowens was able to concentrate on just playing after being player/coach the previous year. </b> New coach Bill Fitch's contribution to the turnaround should get some props. (But believe me I'm not undercutting Bird's magnificant performance -- it was the 79 NCAA's with Bird and Johnson and following them in their rookie seasons that turned me on to basketball when I was in junior high). I also think the 78 team was trying to adjust to playing without Havlicek and it took a season to modify the game plan and adjust.
> 
> Of the three, MJ clearly came on to the worst team as a rookie. They had nobody worth mentioning. Orlando Woolridge was solid. A young Q Dailey showed promise. Dave Corzine? Please... MJ did orchestrate an 11 win improvement and a return to the playoffs for the Bulls. Not as spectacular as Bird or Magic, but he had a heck of a lot less to work with.
> 
> All three had stellar rookie seasons individually.
> 
> Magic:
> 
> 18 ppg 7.7 rpg 7.3 apg .810 ft% in 36.3 mpg
> 
> Larry Legend:
> 
> 21.3 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 4.5 apg .836 ft% 36 mpg
> 
> His Airness:
> 
> 28.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg 5.9 apg .845 ft% 38.3 mpg
> 
> From this, we can see in terms of individual rookie performance that MJ was the most dominant scorer of the three and his team relied on him to be on the floor slightly more than the others. Larry is the only one to average a double double as a rook. Magic had the most well-rounded game.



I can agree that Mike was the most productive of the 3 when it cam to scoring. I think people forget that Tiny was old and so was Cowens, who retired the next year and Tiny the second year. ML Carr was NOT anywhere near Woolridge in productivity. Rick Robey was the Cowens back up and he was not even as good as Corzine! Chris Ford at SG was not exactly a scoring machine with his 11 PPG.

I think Larry had as bad if not worse team than Mike had when he came into the league, but this is all personal opinion, and I wanted to remind some that Cowens & Tiny were old and ML Carr, Robey and Chris Ford were not better than:

Corzine, Quinton Daily(16 PPG off the bench),Steve Johnson, and Wes Matthews.


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## Damn Dudley

i dont think kl dawger was comparing melo to mj or hakeem to lebron. he was just using that draft class an example that melo shouldve gone first... and saying that the other teams will livr to regret it... jesus u guys dont seem to understand anything... hes basically saing lebron will turn out great, milicic will do alright and melo is will turn out the best... for some reason u guys didnt seem to get that...


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## SkywalkerAC

it was painfully obvious and even explained at length.

back to carmelo, he's impressed me SO much thus far. he's going to bring a lot of positive media hype to Denver along with a few more wins. he's going to have a great career, starting from day one.


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## Kunlun

> Originally posted by <b>Damn Dudley</b>!
> i dont think kl dawger was comparing melo to mj or hakeem to lebron. he was just using that draft class an example that melo shouldve gone first... and saying that the other teams will livr to regret it... jesus u guys dont seem to understand anything... hes basically saing lebron will turn out great, milicic will do alright and melo is will turn out the best... for some reason u guys didnt seem to get that...


Thanks for clearing that up for me.


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## kflo

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Carmelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I can agree that Mike was the most productive of the 3 when it cam to scoring. I think people forget that Tiny was old and so was Cowens, who retired the next year and Tiny the second year. ML Carr was NOT anywhere near Woolridge in productivity. Rick Robey was the Cowens back up and he was not even as good as Corzine! Chris Ford at SG was not exactly a scoring machine with his 11 PPG.
> 
> I think Larry had as bad if not worse team than Mike had when he came into the league, but this is all personal opinion, and I wanted to remind some that Cowens & Tiny were old and ML Carr, Robey and Chris Ford were not better than:
> 
> Corzine, Quinton Daily(16 PPG off the bench),Steve Johnson, and Wes Matthews.


jordan certainly came to a more dysfunctional team of "me" players and drug users. boston at least had professionals. tiny would come in 5th and 9th in the mvp voting in '80 & '81 respectively (2nd team all-nba in '81 as well). cowens, while not the player he was, was still productive enough in the middle, and he had a mind for the game and could play defense. maxwell as well was a player (61% fg% in '80, 17 & 9) and was also strong defensively. boston, for whatever reason, was a pathetic defensive team in '79, then in '80 (bird's rookie year) they went from giving up 51% fg% to 47%. now, bird was a good defender at this point, but he had help here. 

bird was a great team player, and certainly had a tremendous impact on the success of the celts - he was by far the biggest factor in turning them from losers to winners. but, imo, his situation was far more favorable, at least to be successful right away, than jordan's. i do think bird was probably a better overall player at that point as well though.


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## IAMGREAT

Melo can shoot better than Lebron, but that does not make him better. Lebron can do everything Melo can, but Melo can't do everything that Lebron can. You should watch their respective games, and you'll see just how much more dynamic and imposing Lebron is than Melo. Melo is nice, no doubt, but Lebron is that man.


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## shazha

i take side with minstrel who concurs with futuristxen agreeing with TomBoerwinkle agreeing with Nevus


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## compsciguy78

*Re: Re: Carmelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>mysterio</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow. Right now we don't know jack-**** that Lebron will have as decorated a career as the Dream, and I think there is a very small chance Carmelo will approach the greatness of MJ. It's jumping the gun a little to make such extreme predictions. Carmelo is having an easy transition, but I see more of a Grant Hill comparison here rather than to Jordan. Perhaps the person who said this didn't realize how phenominal MJ's rookie year was. His success was unprecedented. And as for Hakeem, he was blocking around 3 shots, scoring over 20 points, and pulling 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. I seriously doubt any of the rookies this year will accomplish in their rookie year what these two have in their first year. No offense to whoever made that comparison, but it was a pretty dumb thing to say.


I see a Grant Hill comparison too. I used to say Magic(two days ago), but he has a game that will fill the stat sheet either way. He is such a good rebounder I don't know if I would have him at point guard. Keep at small forward and let him the run the offense. Or let kevin ollie run the offense....who would you choose?


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## Kmasonbx

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, like when he was forced to enter the draft because his GPA was so low he couldn't stay academically eligible!
> 
> I could get 1.6 without even showing up to class.


Do you think Melo went to class? He didn't go to college to learn about math, and whatever other classes he took, he went to college to learn more about basketball. 

People saying Melo is a Glen Robinson type player, don't understand the game, they have the same build and similar athleticism, but that is where the comparisons end. At 19 Melo is probably just as good as Robinson was when he came out of college at 21. Melo's understanding of the game is much better than any 19 year old I have seen. He definitely has room for improvement he doesn't have much range on his jumper yet. When he adds the 3 points to his game, than you will see Melo at his best. Melo is also a great rebounder, because he likes to rebound so he will always be good at it. He also needs to get better on defense, I think he will but he will never be an all-league defender. In his prime I see Melo averaging 25 points, 10 rebounds and 4 assists a game. I do feel LeBron will end up better, in his prime I see #s like 28, 8 and 7. But Melo is going to be a hall of famer, and will have a better career than Darko, and won't be a nothc below LeBron, they'll be near the same level.


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## Kunlun

I, too thought that Carmelo would be like a Glenn Robinson type player. But, after seeing him play and reading more about him and also considering his age and maturity I feel that he will definately better.


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## rynobot

Melo is going to be a really good player in this league, how good is up to Anthony. But about James' horrible shooting I kinda have a theory on this. The Cavs have nothing to lose right now be letting James shoot from the outside in the preseason, it is actually beneficial to the team to find out what level James' shooting is at before the season starts so they know what kind of role on offense he is going to have. The Cavs could have limited James to shooting within 15 feet and his FG% would have reflected that. Hopefully once the season starts Silas limits James to shooting within his range unless he gets a complelty wideopen jumpshot.


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## Nevus

LeBron rarely took the ball to the hoop in preseason... I think he could have done it with relative success any time he wanted to, but it wasn't what the team was doing. In the regular season they will hopefully have him shoot less from the outside, and concentrate more on driving and distributing the ball.


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## bruno34115

> Originally posted by <b>ltrain99</b>!
> but he is very polished, and has little room for improvement.


Just because he is polished doesnt means he has little room to improve. This kid is 19 years old and you dont expect him to improve very much? thats crazy talk and u kno it.


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## bruno34115

> Originally posted by <b>ltrain99</b>!
> but he is very polished, and has little room for improvement.


Just because he is polished doesnt means he has little room to improve. This kid is 19 years old and you dont expect him to improve very much? thats crazy talk and u kno it.


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## toiletscrubber

One thing that most people overlook about Melo is his basketball IQ, he's smarter than most freshmen coming out of college, and he has a great understanding of the game.


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## Kunlun

I neve god damn said that [edit] Lebron James would suck. I never said he couldn't score, I never said anything bad about him. So [edit] everybody who's talking about Lebron and his jump shot.


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## irishfury

Well from my point....

Carmello may have a high basketball IQ but he reminds me of Grant Hill....Dunno if it's the baby fat or what...

Lebron has all the gifts to be great that doesn't make him great but if he keeps at work he can be....

Darko I am a huge pistons fan tonights game is the first time he didn't look like a deer lost in head lights..... He had a nasty block and really buckeled down on defence. It frustrates me I think they should play Darko more in preseason but you can see he will be good. Fast first step good feet work.

Chris Bosh...I was really impressed in the two games taht I saw him in. He reminds me of KG just needs to put on some muscle mass this man is skitty and would be shaqs twinky.....


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## Blau

Someone please explain to me why Lebron is franchise saving type player and Carmelo is just good?

When did basketball fans become infatuated with potential and just say the hell with production on the court?

Someone let me know something!


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## Showtime84'

I don't know Blau. In my opinion this ******** trend started up in the mid 90's when all the high schoolers started coming in.

One of the reasons the quality of play has plumitted in the last decade or so.


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## Priest

yeah both of you guys are right...tyhe nba has become obsessed with potential its crazy...like when a 6''4 shooting guard comes in the league they say he is to short so they force them to play the point if that person can play the two effectivly then let them play it...I dont know the nba has become crazy since 96


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## Nevus

> Someone please explain to me why Lebron is franchise saving type player and Carmelo is just good?


Many people have come to that conclusion after watching them both play. You don't have to agree, and nobody has to justify it. 

Most of peoples' beliefs about sports are based on observation and subjective impressions; there is no way to prove anyone is better than anyone else. 

Many people see LeBron and think he can be a much better overall player than Carmelo Anthony. Maybe you don't see that. We will know who is correct in a number of years. There's no need to get upset.


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## Kmasonbx

They are both franchise players, Melo will turn into one sooner, like this year, while LeBron won't have that type of production until his 3rd or 4th year. But also if Melo was on the Cavs he wouldn't be the best player from day 1. 

I also feel the NBAs obsession with potential is hurting the league. Athleticism is becoming way too important, which is why there doesn't seem to be many good shooters. Players like Steve Kerr would have a hard time getting drafted high in today's NBA, and then when they did get drafted would have a harder time getting playing time. Look at Trajan Langdon, the man could shoot the lights out, but never really played. JJ Reddick out of Duke fits this mold, and he'll probably have a hard time getting drafted in the top 20 whenver he comes out, and he'll struggle for PT.


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## Nevus

> I also feel the NBAs obsession with potential is hurting the league. Athleticism is becoming way too important, which is why there doesn't seem to be many good shooters. Players like Steve Kerr would have a hard time getting drafted high in today's NBA, and then when they did get drafted would have a harder time getting playing time. Look at Trajan Langdon, the man could shoot the lights out, but never really played. JJ Reddick out of Duke fits this mold, and he'll probably have a hard time getting drafted in the top 20 whenver he comes out, and he'll struggle for PT.


Teams don't draft guys or play guys based on an idealistic principle of what should be effective or valuable in the league... they do it based on what is working. If JJ Reddick can shoot the lights out, but can't contribute as much to a team's chances for victory as some athletic freak can, then he's just not as valuable or useful.

And drafting for potential is fine. Why would you draft anyone who doesn't have potential? Unless it's Shaq or Duncan or Jordan, that's usually all any rookie has, so why not go for more of it when you can? What is so bad about long-term gratification, or planning for the future?


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## Like A Breath

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> They are both franchise players, Melo will turn into one sooner, like this year, while LeBron won't have that type of production until his 3rd or 4th year. But also if Melo was on the Cavs he wouldn't be the best player from day 1.
> 
> I also feel the NBAs obsession with potential is hurting the league. Athleticism is becoming way too important, which is why there doesn't seem to be many good shooters. Players like Steve Kerr would have a hard time getting drafted high in today's NBA, and then when they did get drafted would have a harder time getting playing time. Look at Trajan Langdon, the man could shoot the lights out, but never really played. JJ Reddick out of Duke fits this mold, and he'll probably have a hard time getting drafted in the top 20 whenver he comes out, and he'll struggle for PT.


If Trajan was productive, he would've played. Fact is, he couldn't get his shot off and he couldn't guard ANYBODY. There are plenty of unathletic guys that can stay in the league at shooting(Michael Redd, Rip Hamilton, Allan Houston) but they have to hold their ground on D. Trajan's size and speed didn't help him at all.


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## Kmasonbx

All 3 of those guys are athletic, they just aren't Vince Carter. Athleticism isn't just jumping high, Hamilton is one of the fastest players in the league, I remember in their college days, Houston and Redd both used a lot of athleticism. I was only using Langdon as an example, Steve Kerr doesn't get his shot off on his own, never did, he got it off double teams and picks. The NBA is obsessed with players like Travis Outlaw, who reportedly has a 50inch vert, but he can't play, but he still got drafted in the 1st round. In the NBAs eyes athleticism equals potential, and that shouldn't be the case. Karl Malone has always been far from athletic, but he is a great player, Larry Bird was unathletic, Magic Johnson wasn't the most athletic man. They used their size and smarts to outplay opponents and dominate. Then you have guys like Harlod Miner, the first next MJ, and so many other athletes who couldn't play. 

I'm not saying potential isn't important, it definitely is, but the NBA is taking on athletes who have no other plusses. LeBron is an unbelievable athlete, and he has other plusses, he is very strong and an incredible passer, his shooting is obviously questionable, but you can be a great player without being a good 3 point shooter, just as long you mid range game is solid. I feel in order to have potential you have to be able to do more than jump high or run fast. We are still waiting on Darius Miles and Gerald Wallace to do something. It seems every year is supposed to be Miles's breakout year but he doesn't. I think it may be time to realize the best he'll be is a role a player. All the other players who came out of high school, were coming into their own by now.


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## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>Blau</b>!
> Someone please explain to me why Lebron is franchise saving type player and Carmelo is just good?
> 
> When did basketball fans become infatuated with potential and just say the hell with production on the court?
> 
> Someone let me know something!


lebron looks to be going to the better team. that's a good start. lebron is also the best prospect ever in that he has arguably the best combination of natural basketball skill, passing ability, size, strength, and athleticism ever. he's a freak. i expect lebron to impact games like Jason Kidd does, like all the great ones do. will he transform the cavs instantly? i'd say that things are looking up for that team now that lebron is in town. it may take some time and he certainly isn't the only special player on that team but they should start making great strides from day one.

i expect carmelo to come in and put up big numbers from day one, scoring, rebounding, and passing. on the right team he could win a championship. can he make a bad team good? we'll have to wait and see. denver isn't as developed as cleveland but they have some good pieces in place, at least one more lottery pick, and some money to spend. it's a good place for carmelo to start his career and improve. he's a high impact player, i don't think there's any doubting that. still, i've watched plenty of high impact players that have really struggled to consistantly lead their team to victories. 

as i said before, we'll have to wait and see. we should have at least 15 years to watch these two.


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## HKF

As Charles Barkley said. Melo is also going to have to do more than just score. He is gonna have to rebound, pass and play Defense also.

James brings an all around game. I would take James over Carmelo because Carmelo isn't taking Denver to the Finals, where I think with Ricky Davis and Lebron, Cleveland can go in the next 3 years. 

They are really close... but if I was trying to make money, Lebron would have been my pick on that alone.


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>Like A Breath</b>!
> 
> 
> If Trajan was productive, he would've played. Fact is, he couldn't get his shot off and he couldn't guard ANYBODY. There are plenty of unathletic guys that can stay in the league at shooting(Michael Redd, Rip Hamilton, Allan Houston) but they have to hold their ground on D. Trajan's size and speed didn't help him at all.


I agree, but since when were Rip Hamilton and Michael Redd unathletic?


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## Kunlun

Melo has won it all on every level of basketball he has ever played as. I expect him to do the same in the NBA in a few years.


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## Blau

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> As Charles Barkley said. Melo is also going to have to do more than just score. He is gonna have to rebound, pass and play Defense also.
> 
> James brings an all around game. I would take James over Carmelo because Carmelo isn't taking Denver to the Finals, where I think with Ricky Davis and Lebron, Cleveland can go in the next 3 years.
> 
> They are really close... but if I was trying to make money, Lebron would have been my pick on that alone.



So let me understand this both teams won only 17 games last year and bron is on a better one? Check

Melo has problems rebounding, passing and defense; and bron can do everything except shoot the rock? Check

And because Bron is in Cleveland the will bypass all the veteran tams and go to the finals in 3 to 5 years? Check

It's all clear to me now thanks a lot!

no masking one limber kid out of high school will make more of a difference than a kid who has succeded at every level of competition.

no baiting


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## digital jello

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> James brings an all around game. I would take James over Carmelo because Carmelo isn't taking Denver to the Finals, where I think with Ricky Davis and Lebron, Cleveland can go in the next 3 years.


Don't be silly. Playoffs maybe, but not the Finals.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> Carmello is a Glenn Robinson/Antawn Jamison, and thats it. It's not a bad thing, but he's no Jordan.


:laugh:


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> James brings an all around game. I would take James over Carmelo because Carmelo isn't taking Denver to the Finals, where I think with Ricky Davis and Lebron, Cleveland can go in the next 3 years.


:laugh:


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## FanOfAll8472

I want LBJ, 'Melo, Darko, AND Bosh all to become superstars. Possible? yes. Likely? No.


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## Kunlun

Okay as of now, Carmelo's stats are a little worse then Lebron's. But the Nuggets are doing better than the Cavaliers and have beaten two Western super power teams, the Spurs and the Kings. Lebron couldn't even bring one win to the table with a more talented roster.


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## Tom

Melo looks like he should be playing in the WNBA...get a new hairdo son!


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## tpb2

LeBron is not the reason for Cleveland loosing. You know, a team is made up of more than one person. You cant go around crediting wins and losses to one rookie. You're a lazy thinker if you think James did not help the Cavs. You just see a loss, and say, well, it must have been his doing.


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## De_dauntless

I think we need to give these 2 kids a break and let them play ball. Maybe after the end of the season we can have a better idea where the 2 are heading. As I can see so far these 2 kids are good. They are going to have off-nights, so what, they are now learning the game. Even the super-stars have off night Shaq, Duncan and Kobe you name them.


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## Kunlun

It may not be Lebron's fault they are losing, but Denver was the worst team in the NBA last season as well and now they have already beat two premier teams and will most likely take apart the Cavs tonight.


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## Kmasonbx

Everybody was saying how much more talented the Cavs were than the Nuggets, but in the NBA unless you are the Mavs you have to play defense to win games. With Marcus Camby and Nene in the paint, the Nuggets are going to get a lof of blocked shots and they will alter many more. On the perimeter as long as Melo, Miller, Barry and Boykins can be productive this team will win around 30-35 games. Playoffs is a reach, but give it 2 years they will be there.


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## tpb2

And Melo is not the only reason that they are winning, especially in game 1. You can't say that Denver would have lost without Melo because the Nuggets wouldnt loose his points because other players would be scoring in his place, maybe not all 23, but maybe 15. Dont compare James and Melo by wins and loses, there are too many confounding variables.


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## "Matt!"

> Originally posted by <b>KL Dawger</b>!
> It may not be Lebron's fault they are losing, but Denver was the worst team in the NBA last season as well and now they have already beat two premier teams and will most likely take apart the Cavs tonight.


Yes, but look at it this way.

03-04 Cavs = LeBron + Jason Kapono + JR Bremer + Kevin Ollie + Jerlani McCoy + 02-03 Cavs (who won 17 games)
03-04 Nugs = Melo + Dre Miller + Earl Boykins + Vashon Leonard + Jon Barry + Healthy Camby + Francisco Elson + 02-03 Nugs (their top 3 scorers, and all five starters)

Hmm...


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## The OUTLAW

Both of the Nuggets wins were at home. I am not saying that this is the only reason but fact is young teams tend to play better at home than on the road. The wins agains the Spurs and Kings are impressive nonetheless. However the Cavs not only start the season on the road but on the west coast which is historically a difficult thing to do.


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## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> Both of the Nuggets wins were at home. I am not saying that this is the only reason but fact is young teams tend to play better at home than on the road.


Plus Denver has the largest (and only) *natural* home court advantage in the league, with the thin air. The Denver players train in it and thus are used to it...opposing players are often left short of breath, which is tough in a full NBA game.


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## Kunlun

Well, at the moment about 8 games into the season Lebron is having better individual stats, but Carmelo's team is doing better. I don't really want this to turn into a Carmelo VS Lebron thread, but sometimes it's hard not to compare the two. Sorry.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> Both of the Nuggets wins were at home. I am not saying that this is the only reason but fact is young teams tend to play better at home than on the road. The wins agains the Spurs and Kings are impressive nonetheless. However the Cavs not only start the season on the road but on the west coast which is historically a difficult thing to do.


2 road wins now...


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## Kunlun

Carmelo is doing well, but I think that James might nab the ROY this season. He is doing much better than I had expected him to do. They are both scoring around the same number of points and getting similar rebound numbers, but James is getting more assists. The main reason is because he the point guard for his team. However, Carmelo is having team success while James is not. So far Nuggets are second in the Midwest right behind Dallas with a 10-6 record and the Cavs are 4-13 dead last in the Central Division.


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