# What is Walker's trade value?



## wickster33 (May 15, 2003)

I keep hearing about Walker's lack of trade value, and I wonder if the League's GMs see it that way? Certainly, a guy like Martin has more value than him this year, but there aren't many players readily available in trade right now that have more value than 'Toine.

- He is a 2-time all star

- He has been the emotional leader of a team that made it to the playoffs the last 2 years (even in the challenged east)

- He has been an iron man, playing heavy minutes in more than 80 games per year, and never experiencing a serious injury.

- He has only 2 years left on his contract, after which he could provide huge cap relief in a year in which primo free agents like McGrady, McDyess, Iverson, Chandler, Curry, etc are available.

- He isn't a BYC player and his contract doesn't have any trade kickers.


Seems to me, that despite what fans are saying, a capable GM would be very interested in him. I'm not advocating that we trade him for a warm bucket of snot, but I'm guessing we could have offers on him tomorrow, if we made him available. All depends on what we'd be willing to accept in return.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

I can add to your list of reasons:

a) he is actually a 3-time all-star

b) he has an amazing and unique array of talents, including ball-handling and matchup problems for every 4 in the league except for kenyon martin

I don't know that he has a low trade value, it's just that coming off that season and that playoff, his trade value is lower than it has been lately. with a cap figure of more than 12 million, i don't think teams can give fair value.

Just to add to this discussion (although I'm glad it looks like he's sticking around), which teams do you think would be suited for him to go to? I think he's perfect for Boston.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

his vaLue iz Low, but we shud NOT trade him, tha' wud b a mistake. He is the heart and souL of this team and trading him wud screw up the chemistry, we need a PF to come in VIA FA or DRAFT so he can pLay SF and exceL........


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## wickster33 (May 15, 2003)

The question of where Antoine would fit is an intresting one. I think his greatest trait is his heart and need to win. Therefore, his greatest value would be to a young tea with talent, but no killer instinct. 

I wouldn't want to see him in the East (where he could make us sorry everytime we saw him), I would see him as very valuable to the Bulls, Raptors, or Hawks. In the west, he could certainly give a lift to the Clippers or Warriors.

I'm not advocating trading him, since I think he gives us some unique talents. However, if we wanted to move him, I don't think it would be that hard. That was the original point of the post.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>wickster33</b>!
> I'm not advocating trading him, since I think he gives us some unique talents. However, if we wanted to move him, I don't think it would be that hard. That was the original point of the post.


It would be easy to move him, but for what?

If Portland would give us Wallace and Stoudamire for Walker plus fodder I would seriously consider it. I would also consider moving Antoine and fodder to the Clips in exchange for Elton Brand plus either Maggette or Richardson. I wouldn't take anything less than that.

I would NOT move him for any combination of players on Atlanta's roster OR the Bulls' roster.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> which teams do you think would be suited for him to go to? I think he's perfect for Boston.


thats what i think. no matter how high or low other gms value him, his value is much greater here in boston, and if we were to make the mistake of trading him, we wouldnt get anything near his value to us in return. as has been said by numerous people already, he is the heart and soul of this team, the emotion leader, and he doesnt put up bad numbers either. keep toine in town!


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Trading Walker would be the dumbest move the Celtics have made in recent memory not involving Pitino and Wallace. Guys with that special ability to lead a team do not come along often and when you get that guy, you have to do everything in your power to keep him. Walker is that guy. 

For those of you who follow other Boston area sports, allow me to draw some comparisons. I think we'll all remember the Patriots Super Bowl season. Brady was the star, the Paul Pierce if you will. But you know he'd be nothing if Drew Bledsoe wasn't there watching over him. The Red Sox were a mess in the clubhouse after Mo Vaughn, the team's leader, left via free agency. The first place Boston Bruins of two seasons ago were dispached swiftly in the playoffs because no one came up to be the leader. 

The team has some problems. Trading Walker is not the answer to them. We need to pick up a rebounding center and a point guard who can control the flow of the game. Would we get that for Walker? I don't think so. And, if Walker is dealt, we have a hole to fill at power forward.

I think I mentioned this in the Zo Mourning thread, but it applies here, so I'm going to say it again. The most important thing that Walker brings to the Celtics is that he appears to be the guy that is bringing the best out of everyone on the team, particularly Paul Pierce.

I don't see anyone on this team who can replace Antoine's presence as the leader. There aren't many people in the NBA who can, and I think it would be a safe bet to say that none of them are available.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Trading Walker would be the dumbest move the Celtics have made in recent memory not involving Pitino and Wallace. Guys with that special ability to lead a team do not come along often and when you get that guy, you have to do everything in your power to keep him. Walker is that guy.
> 
> For those of you who follow other Boston area sports, allow me to draw some comparisons. I think we'll all remember the Patriots Super Bowl season. Brady was the star, the Paul Pierce if you will. But you know he'd be nothing if Drew Bledsoe wasn't there watching over him. The Red Sox were a mess in the clubhouse after Mo Vaughn, the team's leader, left via free agency. The first place Boston Bruins of two seasons ago were dispached swiftly in the playoffs because no one came up to be the leader.
> ...


Great post. Though I personally feel Antoine has a lot of talent that doesn't get the respect it should. Your reasons (plus his talent) are exactly why I would never trade him.
Walker and Pierce are the foundation of number 17. 
This team needs a point guard and a rebounder.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> It would be easy to move him, but for what?
> ...


As people have been saying, Walker is the emotional and vocal leader on the team. While Wallace may be more talented in some regards, he's certainly not a leader. Pippen is the leader of that team. Wallace and Stoudamire can both be headcases, too, and the Celtics definitely don't need that. Vin Baker is more than enough. I think the only combination I'd consider is Wallace and Pippen. Wallace would replace the talent, and Pippen would replace the leadership. Pippen just needs to stay healthy. But we all pretty much know that that trade would never happen. Anyway, Ainge said Walker isn't going anywhere, so unless he's lying, trade talk is pretty much useless.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> Anyway, Ainge said Walker isn't going anywhere, so unless he's lying, trade talk is pretty much useless.


 This isn't exactly true. Ainge said he wouldn't make a phone call in that regard. He never said he wouldn't entertain a phone call in the subject of trading Antoine.


IMO Antoine will be gone. Maybe not next year but definetly in his last year. They are not going to re-sign him. Then again maybe they will. Maybe Ainge will get his head out of his a$$ and see what Walker means to this team when he spends a year working with this team. You know. Instead of basing his whole perception on the 5games he has seen Antoine play in.

Hence what my whole problem is with Danny Ainge.

I WANT LARRY BIRD INSTEAD OF AINGE.
He knows what Walker is.


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## princeb (May 14, 2003)

I agree!!! Bird for president of operations, coach, GM, whatever... i love larry!!!

Walker - means more to the celtics than he will to any other team, why, because ANTOINE BELIEVED IN US when no one else did, when Paul was developing and putting up 10 pts. a game, when we were winning 16, 17, 18, 19 games a season!!! "the celtics suck, they will never be great again!" remember those headlines in the news 4 or 5 years ago...yeah well ANTOINE was there!!!! just him with a bunch of nobodys for team mates trying to make everyone in the league believe they had something to build a NEW DYNASTY around, to believe in! Paul is the scoring man now and i'm thankful for him, but if we lose ANT we lose our heart, our will!!! 

and thats real and won't be on any trade and scouting reports!!! so lets bring in a TRAILBLAZER and i guarantee you it will destroy our team cohesiveness. i mean look besides TOINE AND PP we got minimal players like Walter, Battie, Delk, Brem, E Will, etc. that play off one thing, HEART!!! and thats why we are contenders, don't blow that.:sigh:


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>princeb</b>!
> I agree!!! Bird for president of operations, coach, GM, whatever... i love larry!!!
> 
> Walker - means more to the celtics than he will to any other team, why, because ANTOINE BELIEVED IN US when no one else did, when Paul was developing and putting up 10 pts. a game, when we were winning 16, 17, 18, 19 games a season!!! "the celtics suck, they will never be great again!" remember those headlines in the news 4 or 5 years ago...yeah well ANTOINE was there!!!! just him with a bunch of nobodys for team mates trying to make everyone in the league believe they had something to build a NEW DYNASTY around, to believe in! Paul is the scoring man now and i'm thankful for him, but if we lose ANT we lose our heart, our will!!!
> ...


:yes: THANK YOU


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>princeb</b>!
> I agree!!! Bird for president of operations, coach, GM, whatever... i love larry!!!
> 
> Walker - means more to the celtics than he will to any other team, why, because ANTOINE BELIEVED IN US when no one else did, when Paul was developing and putting up 10 pts. a game, when we were winning 16, 17, 18, 19 games a season!!! "the celtics suck, they will never be great again!" remember those headlines in the news 4 or 5 years ago...yeah well ANTOINE was there!!!! just him with a bunch of nobodys for team mates trying to make everyone in the league believe they had something to build a NEW DYNASTY around, to believe in! Paul is the scoring man now and i'm thankful for him, but if we lose ANT we lose our heart, our will!!!
> ...


Prince B, I LOVE YOUR CELTIC PRIDE!

Sorry to be a party pooper, though, but two things: 1) We are NOT, as presently constructed, even close to being considered contenders.

2) Too bad ol' number 33 and his ownership group couldn't get the team from Gaston but they didn't want to overpay like Wyc and the FantasyGeeks. So, to quote our least favorite President/Coach, "Larry Bird is not walking through that door." So get over it and embrace Danny Ainge. One buffoon went so far as to question Danny's loyalty to the team, but I say that anyone who would willingly inherit this cap nightmare is almost too loyal. Danny is smart and will work hard to get this done.

p.s. I love your signature, 16 banners, etc. LONG LIVE THE CELTICS!!!


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## sologigolos (May 27, 2003)

but the problem with walker is that this brand of basketball that he's been playing since pitino's departure is not gonna win us games. and as we can see, the rest of the Green Machine have adopted Walker's "throw that s*** up and see if it goes in" style.
i think walker's got an arsenal and a half of basketball talents. but as XO-smart as OBrien is, he just doesn't seem to have any control over what his players do on court. either that, or Walker's 3pointitis syndrome is contagious even to the coaching staff.
either we get a coach that can whip ppl's a** back into shape, or walker could benefit from a new start.
installed as a team leader, a captain, a fan favorite, i don't think walker's gonna be changing his attitude anytime soon.
do i necessarily think that wallace is a better player/better fit? no... do i think that all the young talent we could get for walker will necessarily pan out? ,aybe not. but we've come as far as we can come. i don't necessarily think that adding a C and a PG will solve the problem. you can arrange a team composed of best talent in basketball, and yet if they play the game as the celtics do, and as walker does, they will not be winners.
walker needs to go. i think it would be beneficial to the celtics, to walker, and of course, to the team that receives him.


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

This is my first post, so don't crucify me 

AS i understand it, from too much time spent on the net, Walker's value doesn't match up with what he is actually worth to the C's. The eastern teams aren't going to want to trade for the guy who played poorly against K-Mart, and Walker wouldn't suit the Western teams ideal for a PF.

He gives Pierce a lot more room to operate, and all the intangibles already discussed in this thread. I also thought that Walker was playing on a bum knee in the playoffs and was having off season surgery?

The Magic are a perfect example of a one star team, the C's can't go down that path.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>keilhur</b>!
> but the problem with walker is that this brand of basketball that he's been playing since pitino's departure is not gonna win us games. and as we can see, the rest of the Green Machine have adopted Walker's "throw that s*** up and see if it goes in" style.
> i think walker's got an arsenal and a half of basketball talents. but as XO-smart as OBrien is, he just doesn't seem to have any control over what his players do on court. either that, or Walker's 3pointitis syndrome is contagious even to the coaching staff.
> either we get a coach that can whip ppl's a** back into shape, or walker could benefit from a new start.
> ...


Keilhur...you're not taking into account the regime change...Danny Ainge won't tolerate the status quo or Walker or O'Brien, or both will be gone. So wait and see if there is a change. Walker is very good at many things, and it would not necessarily be good for the Celtics to lose him. It would definitely not be good for Walker, and I'm not sure Antoine would benefit most teams.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>keilhur</b>!
> but the problem with walker is that this brand of basketball that he's been playing since pitino's departure is not gonna win us games. and as we can see, the rest of the Green Machine have adopted Walker's "throw that s*** up and see if it goes in" style.
> i think walker's got an arsenal and a half of basketball talents. but as XO-smart as OBrien is, he just doesn't seem to have any control over what his players do on court. either that, or Walker's 3pointitis syndrome is contagious even to the coaching staff.


Walker's 3 point attempts doubled once OB took over. OB loves the three and has said so. The team as a whole takes way more threes than any other team, so he's not the only one. Walker takes a lot of them because he has the ball in his hands a lot, especially as the 24 second clock is winding down. He's almost always the final option, not Pierce. Also, he plays way more minutes than anyone on the team other than Pierce. Pierce doesn't take as many threes because he has the ability to draw fouls. Walker can't buy a foul. As shown by the Pacers series, he doesn't have to take threes, and he's still very effective down low as long as someone like K-Mart isn't guarding him. I think the Nets series may have been an eye-opener for him, so he will work on dealing with people like K-Mart. He did rather well in the fourth game. Walker is not the root of their three point love affair. OB is, and until OB decides otherwise, they're going to keep taking them whether or not Walker is with them.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> Walker's 3 point attempts doubled once OB took over. OB loves the three and has said so. The team as a whole takes way more threes than any other team, so he's not the only one. Walker takes a lot of them because he has the ball in his hands a lot, especially as the 24 second clock is winding down. He's almost always the final option, not Pierce. Also, he plays way more minutes than anyone on the team other than Pierce. Pierce doesn't take as many threes because he has the ability to draw fouls. Walker can't buy a foul. As shown by the Pacers series, he doesn't have to take threes, and he's still very effective down low as long as someone like K-Mart isn't guarding him. I think the Nets series may have been an eye-opener for him, so he will work on dealing with people like K-Mart. He did rather well in the fourth game. Walker is not the root of their three point love affair. OB is, and until OB decides otherwise, they're going to keep taking them whether or not Walker is with them.


Good analysis. And here is why OB loves the 3: if you take 100 threes and shoot 35%, you are better off than if you take 100 twos and shoot 50%. However, the missed threes generate fifteen more rebounds, and many of those are long rebounds. So you have to keep the other team from capitalizing on those misses.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> Prince B, I LOVE YOUR CELTIC PRIDE!
> ...


That bafoon would be me. After listening to Danny Ainge hate on this Celtics team for many years I do question his loyalty. You can claim he was saying the truth but in fact he was saying only half truths and then making biased statments .

I think the 3 million a year Danny Ainge is getting would be a reason he would take over this team. Chris Wallace has made some of the dumbest moves ever since he has been GM here and people are still interviewing him for jobs. So by Ainge being here and not doing anything he still could be rehired in the future.
I don't like Danny Ainge and I never will. I don't trust him. Everyone is acting like he is going to save this team. You know the same way they acted when Rick Pitino came to town. I was right about Rick Pitino and I am right about Danny. It is just going to take a few years for the proof to come out.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> That bafoon would be me. After listening to Danny Ainge hate on this Celtics team for many years I do question his loyalty. You can claim he was saying the truth but in fact he was saying only half truths and then making biased statments .
> 
> ...


I know he isn't a proven GM yet, and we don't know what he can or can't do, but THERE'S just no way he can be WORSE then Wallace. I don't know if he can save the Celtics, but he's a realist and he knows whats wrong with the team, something Wallace didn't know....(Lets draft another wing player)


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> I know he isn't a proven GM yet, and we don't know what he can or can't do, but THERE'S just no way he can be WORSE then Wallace. I don't know if he can save the Celtics, but he's a realist and he knows whats wrong with the team, something Wallace didn't know....(Lets draft another wing player)



Actually we don't know yet if he is worse then Wallace because he hasn't had a chance to do anything.

I can tell you that he wants Walker gone and only made that speech about not trading him because he knew he couldn't trade him this year. When Walker isn't re-signed to a new contract and becomes a free agent in his last signed year in Boston I can guarente you Danny Ainge will trade him. (Don't get me wrong here. I don't want Antoine gone. In fact if I am wrong and he doesn't trade Antoine I won't mind eating the crow. I will welcome being wrong because Walker will still be a Celtic.)


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You sure there is anyone worse then Wallace?

Anyway, if Walker was supposed to be traded, well what can you do? Its a part of the game, you know I love Twan, in fact I would wish he wins a championship with that team he goes to. I would root for the Celtics and Antoine's team. What can you do? Nothing but hope for the best for him.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> You sure there is anyone worse then Wallace?
> ...


 I know I can't do anything lol but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Or that I don't get to rant and rant and rant about it over and over and over....

I fully admitt that i don't like Danny Ainge. I just don't think he is going to be this big savior that everyone else thinks he is going to be. The last time I had a feeling like this concerning the Celtics was when they hired Rick Pitinio. Look how that turned out.
He came into town. Traded everyone away and we all know the rest.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> I know I can't do anything lol but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Or that I don't get to rant and rant and rant about it over and over and over....
> ...


History repeats itself, in this case I think its too short to be repeated, if its true (that history repeats itself) then we are due for another 16 championships first, then Rick Pitino the II.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> History repeats itself, in this case I think its too short to be repeated, if its true (that history repeats itself) then we are due for another 16 championships first, then Rick Pitino the II.


LOL:laugh: lets hope thats the case


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> Walker's 3 point attempts doubled once OB took over. OB loves the three and has said so. The team as a whole takes way more threes than any other team, so he's not the only one. Walker takes a lot of them because he has the ball in his hands a lot, especially as the 24 second clock is winding down. He's almost always the final option, not Pierce. Also, he plays way more minutes than anyone on the team other than Pierce. Pierce doesn't take as many threes because he has the ability to draw fouls. Walker can't buy a foul. As shown by the Pacers series, he doesn't have to take threes, and he's still very effective down low as long as someone like K-Mart isn't guarding him. I think the Nets series may have been an eye-opener for him, so he will work on dealing with people like K-Mart. He did rather well in the fourth game. <b> Walker is not the root of their three point love affair. OB is, </b>and until OB decides otherwise, they're going to keep taking them whether or not Walker is with them.



How quickly some people forget that little fact. GREAT point there. :yes:


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> History repeats itself, in this case I think its too short to be repeated, if its true (that history repeats itself) then we are due for another 16 championships first, then Rick Pitino the II.


History does not necessarily repeat itself in order.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*OB and the 3's*

OB is not in a three-point "love affair." He allows this strategy because it allows his team to exert more energy on defense, and because it suits the matchups. His centers, Battie, Blount and Potapenko before, we're all face-up players. His only real post up player is Eric Williams. So he goes with this strategy, because he also has no point guard for penetration and pick and rolls. With a change in personnel, will come a change in strategy. Am I the only one who sees this? O'Brien has verbalized this in the past.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: OB and the 3's*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> OB is not in a three-point "love affair." He allows this strategy because it allows his team to exert more energy on defense, and because it suits the matchups. His centers, Battie, Blount and Potapenko before, we're all face-up players. His only real post up player is Eric Williams. So he goes with this strategy, because he also has no point guard for penetration and pick and rolls. With a change in personnel, will come a change in strategy. Am I the only one who sees this? O'Brien has verbalized this in the past.


Wow! Interesting! So Obie did this because of personnel, no point guard. So he instituted it out of necessity. That further explains how much Walker and the team are doing just what their boss wants them to do, doesn't it?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*OB's plan vs. Antoine's itchy trigger finger...*

Yes and no, Rifleman. But you cannot blame Antoine for the Celtics' problems in this area. Pierce shot a lower percentage (.304 or so) than Antoine (.320 or so). The Celtics being one of the worst three point shooting teams in the league is due to shot-clock running down type shots and bad shooters. Tony Delk is the only consistent knock-down jump shooter. If the personnel change, and the system changes, the Celtics will be better offensively and in transition defense, for sure.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Since OB came here, Twan's 3pts have TRIPPLED? Thats 3 times more then before. 

Last year we had a PG, and we still bombed 3s. Now why isn't Brown playing. He can't knock down the 3.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Well....*

Brown isn't playing because he can't knock down ANYTHING. When Kenny left, our 3p percentage plummeted. You're right though, our 3pt attempts skyrocketed when Pitino quit that night in Miami. So did our winning percentage. But to get to the next level, we need to find a balance. PG and post center.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Well....*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Brown isn't playing because he can't knock down ANYTHING. When Kenny left, our 3p percentage plummeted. You're right though, our 3pt attempts skyrocketed when Pitino quit that night in Miami. So did our winning percentage. But to get to the next level, we need to find a balance. PG and post center.


If I were coaching the C's I would FORBID Kedrick from taking treys, except at the buzzer or with the shot clock expiring. He lacks 3 point range, but he has a nice mid-range jump shot. With his leaping ability he should be taking it to the hole or stopping to pop the 16 foot jumper. He also needs to learn how to move without the ball.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: Well....*



> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> If I were coaching the C's I would FORBID Kedrick from taking treys, except at the buzzer or with the shot clock expiring. He lacks 3 point range, but he has a nice mid-range jump shot. With his leaping ability he should be taking it to the hole or stopping to pop the 16 foot jumper. <b>He also needs to learn how to move without the ball.</b>


That's a key right there. On offense, Kedrick is a spectator. He never expects to get the ball. If he could break free and cut to the basket sometimes, I bet he could get more easy baskets. Forget the three. Even if he got good at it, that's not what he should be doing. He's an athlete and should be taking it to the hoop like Pierce. Just throw in a couple midrange jumpers to keep the defense honest, and he could be a real headache for other teams.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Well....*



> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a key right there. On offense, Kedrick is a spectator. He never expects to get the ball. If he could break free and cut to the basket sometimes, I bet he could get more easy baskets. Forget the three. Even if he got good at it, that's not what he should be doing. He's an athlete and should be taking it to the hoop like Pierce. Just throw in a couple midrange jumpers to keep the defense honest, and he could be a real headache for other teams.


Once again, its not easy doing that without a offense, when you are expected to go at the 3 point line and watch Pierce and Antoine kick out the ball to you. Once again OB's fault. If he doesn't make an offense for next year (he will, Ainge will make him make one) then he should be fired after the first game.

BTW nice Twan article.
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/159/sports/Walker_s_game_to_get_seasoning_in_summer+.shtml


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Well....*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> Once again, its not easy doing that without a offense, when <b>you are expected to go at the 3 point line</b> and watch Pierce and Antoine kick out the ball to you. Once again OB's fault. If he doesn't make an offense for next year (he will, Ainge will make him make one) then he should be fired after the first game.
> ...



Great article (thanks for providing that!) and once again, with all of the minutes that Obie <b>requires </b>of Walker & Pierce, they both need to be in top condition. That will help both of them to improve their shooting percentage and free throw %.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

I must be a pessimest but I read that article and thought so long Antoine. Here is the line that made me think that.

"But in all likelihood, if the Celtics do not offer Walker an extension, his run in Boston will end after that season. When director of basketball operations Danny Ainge was asked about extending Walker, he offered, ''No comment.''


I really don't expect Danny Ainge to extend Walker's contract. If he doesn't and Pierce has to be the media whipping boy for a year or two I don't think he will re-sign in Boston on his own. This is going to start a chain of effect and in the end the Celtics will lose out.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> I must be a pessimest but I read that article and thought so long Antoine. Here is the line that made me think that.
> 
> "But in all likelihood, if the Celtics do not offer Walker an extension, his run in Boston will end after that season. When director of basketball operations Danny Ainge was asked about extending Walker, he offered, ''No comment.''
> ...


I think "No comment" is the only answer Ainge can give right now. I don't think he's at liberty to say either way whether Walker will get an extension, even if he wanted to. Until discussions happen, it's too early. I suppose Ainge could have worded it differently, like "We're in discussions" or "I'm focusing on other things right now". I'm not sure what to expect from Ainge. I'm just hoping he makes good decisions. If he decides not to give Walker an extension, then he had better have a good plan that will make the team better without Walker. You can't just give up on an All-Star and leader without having a way to replace him if you want to be successful. He has to consider all the repercussions as well. There will be a lot of other Celtics team members and coaching staff as well as fans that will not be happy if Walker is mistreated. The only way to be forgiven for that is to improve the team and make them contenders.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> I think "No comment" is the only answer Ainge can give right now. I don't think he's at liberty to say either way whether Walker will get an extension, even if he wanted to. Until discussions happen, it's too early. I suppose Ainge could have worded it differently, like "We're in discussions" or "I'm focusing on other things right now". I'm not sure what to expect from Ainge. I'm just hoping he makes good decisions. If he decides not to give Walker an extension, then he had better have a good plan that will make the team better without Walker. You can't just give up on an All-Star and leader without having a way to replace him if you want to be successful. He has to consider all the repercussions as well. There will be a lot of other Celtics team members and coaching staff as well as fans that will not be happy if Walker is mistreated. The only way to be forgiven for that is to improve the team and make them contenders.



The No comment makes it seem like he isn't going too. All he had to say was we will see what happens. Or We will wait till after the draft to decide anything.
Sorry I don't trust Danny Ainge. I just have this gut feeling . The last time I had this gut feeling the Celtics hired Rick Pitino.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

Please read this article. It says it all for me. I don't trust Danny Ainge and this was teh first thing I thought of when I heard what Ainge said about trading Walker.
http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/sports/sportcol2003/chadsdontradetoine_2003.shtml


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> Please read this article. It says it all for me. I don't trust Danny Ainge and this was teh first thing I thought of when I heard what Ainge said about trading Walker.
> http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/sports/sportcol2003/chadsdontradetoine_2003.shtml


Great article. Glad to know there are some in the media who feel the way I do.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> Please read this article. It says it all for me. I don't trust Danny Ainge and this was teh first thing I thought of when I heard what Ainge said about trading Walker.
> http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/sports/sportcol2003/chadsdontradetoine_2003.shtml


great read! I especially liked this part:

<i><b>e Celtics problem is not Walker and Pierce. </b>It's the complete and total lack of talent surrounding them, specifically at center and point guard. Consider the six-man rotation Coach Jim O'Brien was forced to go with in the waning moments of Game 4 once Walker had fouled out: 

A valiant but spent Pierce; Tony Delk, <b>who in his finest moments is a poor imitation of Vinnie Johnson; Eric Williams who is tough, gritty and, well, a stiff;</b> Mark Blount, who looks startled every time the ball sticks to his stone hands; Bimbo Coles, who'll be out of the league next season; and Grant Long, who was out of the league halfway through this one. 

Not exactly the 1985-86 Celts there, is it? Ainge must have been tempted to check himself into the game.

Listen, even I'll admit it might be worth trading Walker if the Celtics could get a quality point guard and a skilled center in return. But that's not going to happen.</i>

That is how I feel and after seeing the Kenny/Potapenko/Forte trade for NOBODY, I certainly don't want to see the celtics pull another boneheaded trade like that one!

Being realistic - NOBODY thought the Celtics would make the eastern finals a year ago. So why are they NOW so shocked that they didn't make it this year, when their only move was a stupid trade for less money and NO BODY - literally no BODY?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Extension for Antoine?*



> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> I must be a pessimest but I read that article and thought so long Antoine. Here is the line that made me think that.
> 
> "But in all likelihood, if the Celtics do not offer Walker an extension, his run in Boston will end after that season. When director of basketball operations Danny Ainge was asked about extending Walker, he offered, ''No comment.''
> ...


Here's a question, why are we even discussing an extension for Antoine in the first place? He has TWO YEARS remaining on his contract!!! Two years!!! The appropriate time to discuss an extension would be after the upcoming season. So Antoine is just going to have to live with knowing that he will earn about 27 million over the next 2 years and be happy. I know it will be tough for him to know that he can have security for his family, considering he is only 26, but I hope he can survive. Maybe the doubt and cloud hanging over him will force him to put down the fried chicken and get in shape (235 lbs might be nice). Maybe he can average 8 rebounds this season!!! Or work on his free throws and get up to 65 or 70 percent from the foul line!!! The Celtics will think extension at the end of the season. And as for the original topic of this post, his value is not much at 13mil per, but at the end of this upcoming season it will be high, because he will be going into the last year of his deal. Giving Antoine an extension now would just be plain STUPID. In the meantime, GO ANTOINE AND GO CELTICS!!!


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Extension for Antoine?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> Here's a question, why are we even discussing an extension for Antoine in the first place? He has TWO YEARS remaining on his contract!!! Two years!!! The appropriate time to discuss an extension would be after the upcoming season. So Antoine is just going to have to live with knowing that he will earn about 27 million over the next 2 years and be happy. I know it will be tough for him to know that he can have security for his family, considering he is only 26, but I hope he can survive. Maybe the doubt and cloud hanging over him will force him to put down the fried chicken and get in shape (235 lbs might be nice). Maybe he can average 8 rebounds this season!!! Or work on his free throws and get up to 65 or 70 percent from the foul line!!! The Celtics will think extension at the end of the season. And as for the original topic of this post, his value is not much at 13mil per, but at the end of this upcoming season it will be high, because he will be going into the last year of his deal. Giving Antoine an extension now would just be plain STUPID. In the meantime, GO ANTOINE AND GO CELTICS!!!


How is that stupid? Giving a College coach at best a NBA extention is plain and stupid. OB hasn't proven himself under Ainge. And neither has Antoine. Now OB wanted to be secured that he'll be here beyond his current contract, Antoine wants the same thing, he never asked for a 20 million contract either, in fact he didn't ask for a raise either, I think he'll be happy with a 8 million contract too, he doesn't care about the money, he wants to win.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

*Re: Extension for Antoine?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> Here's a question, why are we even discussing an extension for Antoine in the first place? He has TWO YEARS remaining on his contract!!! Two years!!! The appropriate time to discuss an extension would be after the upcoming season. So Antoine is just going to have to live with knowing that he will earn about 27 million over the next 2 years and be happy. I know it will be tough for him to know that he can have security for his family, considering he is only 26, but I hope he can survive. Maybe the doubt and cloud hanging over him will force him to put down the fried chicken and get in shape (235 lbs might be nice). Maybe he can average 8 rebounds this season!!! Or work on his free throws and get up to 65 or 70 percent from the foul line!!! The Celtics will think extension at the end of the season. And as for the original topic of this post, his value is not much at 13mil per, but at the end of this upcoming season it will be high, because he will be going into the last year of his deal. Giving Antoine an extension now would just be plain STUPID. In the meantime, GO ANTOINE AND GO CELTICS!!!


I'm pretty sure the reason people are discussing an extention is because he is eligable for one some time in the month of June.
(I don't remember exactly when)
I don't think it would be stupid at all to discuss an extention.
Do you think the Lakers are going to wait till last minute to discuss one with Shaq and Kobe? 
Do you think they will wait till Pierce is a free agent and then start discussing one with him.
No if they wanted too they should get it done the first chance they get. If the player deserves it. Antoine deserves it because he works for it. The fact that he wants to stay and play for this team instead of testing the market and perhaps playing for teh vetern minimum with a team certain for an NBA title says alot.



> Being realistic - NOBODY thought the Celtics would make the eastern finals a year ago. So why are they NOW so shocked that they didn't make it this year, when their only move was a stupid trade for less money and NO BODY - literally no BODY?


That is Boston for you. You make one step and they want you to only go up. No one expected the Celtics to beat the Pacers and they did. I think they would have had a great chance beating the Sixers and Pistons too and very well could have been in the NBA Eastern Conference finals again if it wasn't for those dang Nets
This town is so spoiled by 16 World titles and there has been such a droubt that since the Patriots won the superbowl they now want more and more.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*I'm sorry...*

I didn't realize Antoine was in the same league as Kobe or Shaq. ARE YOU KIDDING? As for O'Brien, you either have to extend him or replace him. Coaches tend not to have the same authority if players believe management doesn't have full faith in him. It's called the "lame-duck" scenario. As for Antoine, if you extend him you hurt his trade value. The Celtics will choose to either extend him or trade him after the coming season. Extending him now is stupid because you limit the flexibility of the organization. As for Antoine "working for it," that is open to debate. Take a look at his body or his decreasing rebounding and FT% numbers every year and you might realize he's not working as hard as you might think. I am glad we are keeping him, he is an All-Star, a leader and one of the most talented players in the league, but I personally would not extend him. Not until July 2004.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

*Re: I'm sorry...*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I didn't realize Antoine was in the same league as Kobe or Shaq. ARE YOU KIDDING? As for O'Brien, you either have to extend him or replace him. Coaches tend not to have the same authority if players believe management doesn't have full faith in him. It's called the "lame-duck" scenario. As for Antoine, if you extend him you hurt his trade value. The Celtics will choose to either extend him or trade him after the coming season. Extending him now is stupid because you limit the flexibility of the organization. As for Antoine "working for it," that is open to debate. Take a look at his body or his decreasing rebounding and FT% numbers every year and you might realize he's not working as hard as you might think. I am glad we are keeping him, he is an All-Star, a leader and one of the most talented players in the league, but I personally would not extend him. Not until July 2004.


I of course don't think Antoine is as good as Kobe. There isn't a current Celtics who is but I do think Antoine is as important to the Celtics as Kobe is to the Lakers. You seem to under estimate the importance of Antoine. 
His teammmates including Paul Pierce know what he means to this team and unfortunetly it is going to take him going some where else for Pierce fans to understand what he meant to this team. Even ones who try to cover up there biased opinions with a few civil comments.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*My Bias*

I'll have you know Iinteam, that my only bias is Pro-Celtic. I hope Antoine stays, he is one of my favorite players in the NBA. I enjoy watching him perform. But I think extending him with two full seasons on his contract starting at $14 million per annum is like EuroDisney or the Etzel--a very stupid idea businesswise. I hope he has a great season and then we extend him next year.
I'm also glad to see that you're not biased, either. If you had your druthers, they'd be building the Antoine statue to put next to Red's and giving him a lifetime contract. I just see some room for improvement on Antoine's and Paul's part. I have seen a lot of good All-Star players, ie. Sidney Moncrief, Karl Malone, etc. who never won a championship. I would hate to see Antoine and/or Paul be in that group. I hope Antoine is eating broccoli and shooting free throws as we speak.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: My Bias*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I hope Antoine is eating broccoli and shooting free throws as we speak.



That's about as likely as me nailing Britney Spears tonight. I hope you are right, but if I had to wager, he is wiping the chicken grease from his fingers as we speak.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: My Bias*



> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> That's about as likely as me nailing Britney Spears tonight. I hope you are right, but if I had to wager, he is wiping the chicken grease from his fingers as we speak.


:laugh: You have an eloquent way with words my friend... :laugh: I hope you and I are wrong, though. The Celtics need us to be wrong.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: My Bias*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: You have an <b>eloquent </b> way with words my friend... :laugh: I hope you and I are wrong, though. The Celtics need us to be wrong.


truth, you are so kind in your selection of descriptive words.  

BTW, let's hope 'Toine is working out, eating right, and being the good dad & the good citizen he usually is.


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## Pumpkin_Escobar (Jun 8, 2003)

While many GM's would love to have Walker's heart and desire to win, I'm not sure they would want:

.388 FG%
582 Attempted 3's
PPG and RPG have been declining last three seasons.
Has become alergic to rebounding (10.2rpg in 97-98 compared to 7.2 in 02-03)


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

My whole point is that it seems like the majority of people need to point out Walker's bad parts but refuse to acknowledge his good points. All the while never mentioning the rest of the teams bad parts and acting like Antoine 3's are the only thing wrong with this team.

He is practically playing point guard on this team which is why his numbers are down. Something again no one wants to acknowledge.

If people did make Antoine the scape goat for everything then I wouldn't feel the need to defend him.
I will defend any and all Celtic players if they give 100% and that is Antoine.


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## Pumpkin_Escobar (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm not tryna put him down I'm just thinking as a GM. GM's dont want a horrible shooter and a 6-9 240+ PF/SF only getting 7rpg. I respect Antoine's heart but he needs to learn to play under control.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> If Portland would give us Wallace and Stoudamire for Walker plus fodder I would seriously consider it.
> 
> ...


wow.....words can not explain how i feel about those two statements, at least without getting me suspended from the board. You would not trade wallace for walker straight up?? are you serious?? Thats not even the one that makes me mad. You would try to demand for maggette or Qrich on top of ELTON BRAND, the most fundamentally sound 4 outside of San Antonio. Brand is 10 times the player walker could ever hope to be. He can score just as much, on half the shots. Rebound more than toine even when walker tried, and do i even need to bring defense into this equation. If i was elton brand i would be horribly insulted to even hear you mention my name in this breath.

IF THERE IS ANY DOUBT I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SET UP A POLL ASKING WHICH PLAYER THEYLD WANT ON THEIR TEAM.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shyFX325</b>!
> 
> 
> wow.....words can not explain how i feel about those two statements, at least without getting me suspended from the board. You would not trade wallace for walker straight up?? are you serious?? Thats not even the one that makes me mad. You would try to demand for maggette or Qrich on top of ELTON BRAND, the most fundamentally sound 4 outside of San Antonio. Brand is 10 times the player walker could ever hope to be. He can score just as much, on half the shots. Rebound more than toine even when walker tried, and do i even need to bring defense into this equation. If i was elton brand i would be horribly insulted to even hear you mention my name in this breath.
> ...


1. Walker for Walace doesn't work under the CBA. Wallace makes too much money. Other players must be involved.

2. Brand=27 wins. Walker=44 wins. Enough said. You want Brand? Keep him. I didn't even say I would do the deal. I said I would consider it.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Celtics Fans*

He has a point guys....I don't even mind the threes, but on defense Antoine is guarding C's and PF's, so he is under the basket a lot....And 7 RPG??? Seven??? What happened to the 20 and 21 year old Antoine? He's 26! He could improve there, A LOT. At this point, I would trade Antoine for Brand, yes. But I am anxiously awaiting the "new and improved" Antoine, as well.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> 1. Walker for Walace doesn't work under the CBA. Wallace makes too much money. Other players must be involved.
> ...


1. woh dude you are contradicting yourself here ... Wallace makes too much money so they are gonna need to add stoudamire on the contract for even more money.   

2. So now you are basing the fact that walker is better than elton cuz he was on the celtics as opposed to being on the clippers. You dont think that the celtics would have won 44 games with elton instead of walker. If that is the base of judgement than i hereby proclaim evan eshemeyer tradeable for antoine walker... walker = 44 wins. E-Esch = 60+ wins Enough said. You want walker, nope ... no one wants walker


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shyFX325</b>!
> 
> 
> You dont think that the celtics would have won 44 games with elton instead of walker.


No they wouldn't. If Brand is so good, how come he couldn't carry the rest of those Clipper shmucks to a winning record? That's what Walker and Pierce do, and unfortunately Pierce can't do it alone.

Brand is a nice player and I like his work on the offensive glass. But he is not the kind of player who makes his teammates better. Walker is.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Celtics Fans*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> He has a point guys....I don't even mind the threes, but on defense Antoine is guarding C's and PF's, so he is under the basket a lot....And 7 RPG??? Seven??? What happened to the 20 and 21 year old Antoine? He's 26! He could improve there, A LOT. At this point, I would trade Antoine for Brand, yes. But I am anxiously awaiting the "new and improved" Antoine, as well.


Ask OB why he has to shoot so many 3s, why he has to play PG, then ask the question again.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

> No they wouldn't. If Brand is so good, how come he couldn't carry the rest of those Clipper shmucks to a winning record? That's what Walker and Pierce do, and unfortunately Pierce can't do it alone.


Walker wins because he is the 2nd option playing alongside Pierce, one of the great go-to guys in the game today, on a team full of well-coached players that know their roles. Elton Brand has been stuck on two crappy teams that were poorly coached and full of players who were either playing for a contract or very inexperienced, and he has been thrust into the role of 1st option in both situations. There is no way you can say that 'Toine is beter cause he wins- it's all about the situation he was placed in.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Brand is a nice player and I like his work on the offensive glass. But he is not the kind of player who makes his teammates better. Walker is.


OMG, that will either shut them up, or make them bring up stats.

Direct HIT.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
> 
> Walker wins because he is the 2nd option playing alongside Pierce, one of the great go-to guys in the game today, on a team full of well-coached players that know their roles. Elton Brand has been stuck on two crappy teams that were poorly coached and full of players who were either playing for a contract or very inexperienced, and he has been thrust into the role of 1st option in both situations. There is no way you can say that 'Toine is beter cause he wins- it's all about the situation he was placed in.


Here we go once again. OB=God right? And Walta and JR Bremer are the MVPs right? Yeah. 

Newsflash, Twan is the 2nd option because he wants to be the 2nd option, now tell me which team has more talent? Which team do you see better in 3 years?


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

> Here we go once again. OB=God right? And Walta and JR Bremer are the MVPs right? Yeah.


 No, but OB is a much better coach than anyone Brand has played for (except coach K), and Walter and Bremer are smart players that know their role. Like i said before, Brand has been stuck with bad coaches and players that are either inexperienced, playing only for a contract, or both.



> Newsflash, Twan is the 2nd option because he wants to be the 2nd option, now tell me which team has more talent? Which team do you see better in 3 years?


He's the 2nd option because Paul Pierce is a better player than he is. 'Toine has accepted the role of 2nd option, and that is to his credit. But Brand has never even had that option.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> now tell me which team has more talent? Which team do you see better in 3 years?


I really hope the Clippers make the playoffs one of these years. I'm sick of seeing poor Elgin Baylor on the lottery show year after year after year after year. He's like Paul Linde on reruns of the Hollywood Squares.

On paper, they should have won 50 games last year, with the great Elton "better than Antoine" Brand and Andre "top 5 point guard" Miller but unfortunately for them basketball games are played on the court, not on paper.


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

I think the C's would have to at least consider Brand, depending on the contract situation. 

Trading Walker would be a huge move, but saying Brand should have helped the Clippers is stretching a bit far, no one can help the disfunctional Clippers while Sterling is the Owner!

Brand has been a very class act in a horrible situation and would bring that same attitude to the Celtics. In fact, Brand's attitude at the Clippers is one reason why I would even consider the trade in the first place (compare to the Kandi smandi situation).

Brand's numbers in the West at PF are damn impressive, however sending Walker to the Clippers would be a nasty move for a loyal employee.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bballin</b>!
> I think the C's would have to at least consider Brand, depending on the contract situation.
> 
> Trading Walker would be a huge move, but saying Brand should have helped the Clippers is stretching a bit far, no one can help the disfunctional Clippers while Sterling is the Owner!
> ...


Finally, someone who knows something about the Clippers. Guys, O'Brien and Harter and co. have done a great job with this team. They would change some things with Brand in there. This deal won't happen, though, because Sterling is too much of a cheapskate, and if he was going to pay max, he wouldn't pay it for a 38% FG, 7RPG PF. He'd pay Brand.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Has anyone else taken a moment to consider Walker's value to the Celtics? 

At the ripe, old age of 26, he's already become the team's leader and most respected player. He has the maturity to realize he's not the best guy on the team anymore and he's stepped back to let Paul Pierce be the man. When the team was breaking up for the summer, Antoine was the guy who went around to all of his teammates - including the star Pierce and guys who might not even come back like Grant Long - and told them what they had to work on to make the Celtics better next season. Isn't that the coaches job?

Are there better players than Antoine Walker? Of course, you're lying to yourself if you don't think there are. However, how many of them would bring the maturity and leadership that Walker has? Perhaps one or two? That's why you don't trade Walker.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Has anyone else taken a moment to consider Walker's value to the Celtics?
> 
> At the ripe, old age of 26, he's already become the team's leader and most respected player. He has the maturity to realize he's not the best guy on the team anymore and he's stepped back to let Paul Pierce be the man. When the team was breaking up for the summer, Antoine was the guy who went around to all of his teammates - including the star Pierce and guys who might not even come back like Grant Long - and told them what they had to work on to make the Celtics better next season. Isn't that the coaches job?
> ...


I tried to say this exact same thing a million times but nobody listened to me lol.
No one is going to appreciate what Walker means to his teammates and this team till he is gone. Then it will be too late.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> I tried to say this exact same thing a million times but nobody listened to me lol.
> No one is going to appreciate what Walker means to his teammates and this team till he is gone. Then it will be too late.








You are exactLy right........


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

The 'Toine better than Brand thing is stupid...
There was a rumour 'Toine for 'Reef straight up, would you guys do it, i know i would..


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> The 'Toine better than Brand thing is stupid...
> There was a rumour 'Toine for 'Reef straight up, would you guys do it, i know i would..








NoPe...We have been over it a miLLion times, we won't do it........


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> The 'Toine better than Brand thing is stupid...
> There was a rumour 'Toine for 'Reef straight up, would you guys do it, i know i would..


Reef hasn't elevated his team anywhere he's been. He can put up numbers, but he's not a winner. And you can't say he has less to work with than Antoine. On paper, the Hawks have plenty of talent (Ratliff, Terry, Robinson, Kukoc, etc). They don't have a Pierce caliber player, but after Pierce and Walker, the talent level drops off considerably. Walker gets players to work hard and believe in the team. I don't think that's something Reef can do. A straight up trade wouldn't help the Celtics at all. 

These trades people come up with for Walker are plain silly. I think all people consider are stats rather than the value to a team. People like Brand and Reef have no history with the Celtics. They have no loyalty to the Celtics. Therefore, they have no passion for the Celtics. Walker has that passion in spades. You can't coach that. If you trade Walker, then you'd better get a bonafide star in return who has a history of winning.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> On paper, the Hawks have plenty of talent (Ratliff, Terry, Robinson, Kukoc, etc).


Whoops... forgot Kukoc was traded. But they still have plenty of talent. Nazr Mohammed is very good. Ira Newble's a great defender.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> Reef hasn't elevated his team anywhere he's been. He can put up numbers, but he's not a winner. And you can't say he has less to work with than Antoine. On paper, the Hawks have plenty of talent (Ratliff, Terry, Robinson, Kukoc, etc). They don't have a Pierce caliber player, but after Pierce and Walker, the talent level drops off considerably. Walker gets players to work hard and believe in the team. I don't think that's something Reef can do. A straight up trade wouldn't help the Celtics at all.


Addur-Rahim and Robinson are only talented at the offensive end. Defensively they stink. Ratliff has been injured and is not nearly the player he was in Philly. Terry, who is a restricted free agent, is gone after July 1. As bad as they are, the Hawks are in luxury tax land, and I doubt if they have the ability to match a reasonable offer for Terry. Teams like the Bulls, Heat and Jazz might be quite interested in him, and all of those teams have money to spend.

As I have said before, the Hawks are just stuck. They are a 15 win team waiting to happen. There is nothing they can do. They don't even have a new coach, because no one wants to go there. The arena is empty every night. It's sad.


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## shiggins (Jun 22, 2003)

true that abdur rahim and robinson dont have much for defense. But Walker's defense is not very good either. No team is afraid to go at him. Martin ate him for lunch. Walker if he jumped might be a much better player. He used to jump in his second year. Now hes content to go in the lane and watch the other players shots, and then on offense he throws up lame standing on the ground flip shots that have no prayer of going in. Perfect example during the new jersey series on a fast break he got blocked by Jason Kidd. Thats brutal. Your PF getting his **** punched by a PG. Dont tell me hes just not athletic or something like that. Hes a fat, overrated player whos to lazy to even jump.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shiggins</b>!
> true that abdur rahim and robinson dont have much for defense. But Walker's defense is not very good either.


Jermaine O' Neal might not agree with you. We have been over this 1000 times before.

Please all of you, keep Abdur Rahim, Lorenzen Wright, Marcus Fizer and all the rest. I'm sure they are happy with their current teams. And I'm happy to keep fat, bloated overrated Antoine, who is one of the major reasons why the Celtics are a playoff team instead of a lottery team. When one of those other players actually helps a team win some games I might change my mind.

Good players win. Bad players lose. You don't trade players who win for players who lose.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shiggins</b>!
> true that abdur rahim and robinson dont have much for defense. But Walker's defense is not very good either. No team is afraid to go at him. Martin ate him for lunch. Walker if he jumped might be a much better player. He used to jump in his second year. Now hes content to go in the lane and watch the other players shots, and then on offense he throws up lame standing on the ground flip shots that have no prayer of going in. Perfect example during the new jersey series on a fast break he got blocked by Jason Kidd. Thats brutal. Your PF getting his **** punched by a PG. Dont tell me hes just not athletic or something like that. Hes a fat, overrated player whos to lazy to even jump.


You're entitled to you own opinion as I am entitled to mine. It just so happens on this subject, we disagree.

BTW, opinions are NOT facts.


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## yruinlove (Jun 22, 2003)

*Walker needs to be traded or shape up!!*

hey! Walker has gotten the talent but he takes arguably the worst shots in the NBA. The Celtics need a point now!!! draft Barbosa or Banks,don't rely on free agency alone! they also need a shot blocker and a rebounding machine,Sweetney would be great but he most likely will not be there! I would trade Walker to New york, draft Sweetney at #9, clear some $$$ for cap space, draft Banks and a big power forward oe shot blocker(West,baby shaq?) and build for the future... GO CELTS!!! #17


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: Walker needs to be traded or shape up!!*



> Originally posted by <b>yruinlove</b>!
> hey! Walker has gotten the talent but he takes arguably the worst shots in the NBA. The Celtics need a point now!!! draft Barbosa or Banks,don't rely on free agency alone! they also need a shot blocker and a rebounding machine,Sweetney would be great but he most likely will not be there! I would trade Walker to New york, draft Sweetney at #9, clear some $$$ for cap space, draft Banks and a big power forward oe shot blocker(West,baby shaq?) and build for the future... <b><font color=green>GO CELTS!!! #17</b> </font>




Now who wore #17 for the green machine?


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

It is very obvious that some of the people commenting in this thread don't watch Antoine Walker very much if they can conclude he can't defend anyone. He had a hard time against Kenyon Martin in the first 3 games but actually out played him in game 4.

When was the last time you people watched Antoine play on a consistant basis? because he has changed his game so much the last 4 years that there is no way anyone saying half the crap they are saying is watching these games.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> It is very obvious that some of the people commenting in this thread don't watch Antoine Walker very much if they can conclude he can't defend anyone. He had a hard time against Kenyon Martin in the first 3 games but actually out played him in game 4.
> 
> When was the last time you people watched Antoine play on a consistant basis? because he has changed his game so much the last 4 years that there is no way anyone saying half the crap they are saying is watching these games.


Those of us who are NBA fanatics have directv and league pass, so that we don't miss any games!

Walker is one of the best rotating forwards I have watched the last fews years. He has at times, covered 4 guys on one sequence of rotation!

I still think that huge knee brace he wore for a few weeks last season told me more about Walker. he was not in the best condition in the playoffs - but then a lot of guys are worn out by then, but he and Pierce play a ton of minutes!!

He sure seemed to handle Jermaine and harrington, and whoever the Pacers threw at him. But the Nets have gotten into the psyche of the Cs - not just Walker - and they need to dispell that hang-up soon!


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Walker needs to be traded or shape up!!*



> Originally posted by <b>yruinlove</b>!
> hey! Walker has gotten the talent but he takes arguably the worst shots in the NBA. The Celtics need a point now!!! draft Barbosa or Banks,don't rely on free agency alone! they also need a shot blocker and a rebounding machine,Sweetney would be great but he most likely will not be there! I would trade Walker to New york, draft Sweetney at #9, clear some $$$ for cap space, draft Banks and a big power forward oe shot blocker(West,baby shaq?) and build for the future... GO CELTS!!! #17


Enough with this building for the future crap. The Celtics were building for seven years before they made it back to the playoffs. Pitino kept trading players before giving them a real chance. They only got back to playoffs after Pitino left. And really, it was with the same core team they had before. All they did was get Delk and Rogers, and that was the second half of the season after they'd already been doing well. They took a step backwards this past year, but it was no fault of the core players, and they still made it to the second round of the playoffs. 

You just don't trade your stars without trying to build around them first. Walker and Pierce are the nucleus of the team, and they had less help this past year. Give them what they need, and I assure you, they'll get better. Look at the recent champions - Spurs, Lakers, Bulls. The thing they all have in common is two stars (Duncan and Robinson, Shaq and Kobe, Jordan and Pippen) who played and developed together for awhile before getting to that level. They didn't win championships right away. Instead, they built around them. Very few teams get better by trading their stars. Most of them either stay about the same or take a step backwards. The Nets are the only ones in recent times that come to mind that really turned around by trading their star. However, they weren't winning to begin with. The Celtics are already winning but just need some help to get to the next level. I agree that the Celtics can't stand still and expect to do better, but it's the supporting cast that needs shaking up, not the core.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> Those of us who are NBA fanatics have directv and league pass, so that we don't miss any games!
> ...


I am convinced that the reason Antoine didn't play as well as he could have in the first 3 games is because the rumors about Danny AInge were swirling around the locker room and I am sure Antoine knew what Danny Ainge thought about him and the Celtics.
I personally feel that is what was in his head. The Globe had an article were Cedrick Maxwell went down and talked to him before game 4 and told him to not worry about what was going on around him and to concentrate on the game. When he did that in game 4 he out played Kenyon Martin on every level.
Antoine loves playing for this team and knowing what was about to come in to play is what IMO got into his Psyche. The day it was finally announced was the day the whole Celtics team fell apart (game 3)

This is of course my opinion but it is the way I feel.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Walker needs to be traded or shape up!!*



> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> Enough with this building for the future crap. I agree that the Celtics can't stand still and expect to do better, but it's the supporting cast that needs shaking up, not the core.








ExactLy........


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shiggins</b>!
> true that abdur rahim and robinson dont have much for defense. But Walker's defense is not very good either. No team is afraid to go at him. Martin ate him for lunch. Walker if he jumped might be a much better player. He used to jump in his second year. Now hes content to go in the lane and watch the other players shots, and then on offense he throws up lame standing on the ground flip shots that have no prayer of going in. Perfect example during the new jersey series on a fast break he got blocked by Jason Kidd. Thats brutal. Your PF getting his **** punched by a PG. Dont tell me hes just not athletic or something like that. Hes a fat, overrated player whos to lazy to even jump.


You're not a Celtics fan nor someone who watches Celtics games. Either that or you're one of those people who hates Walker as a leisure activity. 

Walker is not a "fat, overrated player who's too lazy to even jump." Granted he does carry a few more pounds than he should, but he's still among the most athletic power forwards in the league when he's healthy. What you saw for the second half last season was Antoine with a bad knee. He hurt it against Philly the week after the all-star game. He missed a few games then came back with a knee brace. After deciding the brace inhibited his ability too much, he got rid of it. Look at his pre/post all-star break splits. His numbers got worse in everything except offensive rebounds, fouls per game and assists. Walker was injured and worn out by the end of the year and the playoffs. Mind you, a worn out, limping Antoine still led the Celtics to victory over Jermaine O'Neal and the Pacers.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Walker needs to be traded or shape up!!*



> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> Enough with this building for the future crap. The Celtics were building for seven years before they made it back to the playoffs. Pitino kept trading players before giving them a real chance. They only got back to playoffs after Pitino left. And really, it was with the same core team they had before. All they did was get Delk and Rogers, and that was the second half of the season after they'd already been doing well. They took a step backwards this past year, but it was no fault of the core players, and they still made it to the second round of the playoffs.
> ...


This is the best explenation I have ever heard.
You are right about the Pitino part, imagin if Ainge just walks in here and does the same thing? (Judgnig from the past few days, I woudn't be surprised).

And yes you are right we should give them a chance. NOW I see why Kidd was traded, I have seen the light. LOL. Basicly he's had enough chances given to him by the Phoenix organization, so they felt they had to re-build. Pierce and Walker haven't been given that chance, they have been the Shaq and Kobe, except that they aren't them, they are not the same players.

Great explation.


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## shiggins (Jun 22, 2003)

why is everyone saying that walker handles jermaine oneal in the playoffs?? O'Neal beasted the hell out of walker. O'Neal was the Pacers only player who played well. Sure Artest played good but most of his shots were bull**** underhand flip hooks or whatever. O'Neal carried that team by himself. And he did it against Walker. I agree the man was probably hurt. But in the beginning of the season when he wasnt hurt, he still didnt seem to be playing much different. *WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO IS JUMP!!!*


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Walker needs to be traded or shape up!!*



> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> Enough with this building for the future crap. The Celtics were building for seven years before they made it back to the playoffs. Pitino kept trading players before giving them a real chance. They only got back to playoffs after Pitino left. And really, it was with the same core team they had before. All they did was get Delk and Rogers, and that was the second half of the season after they'd already been doing well. They took a step backwards this past year, but it was no fault of the core players, and they still made it to the second round of the playoffs.
> ...



I agree with you that every championship team needs two stars! But when you look at the duos you mentioned I feel that either one of them needs to be a dominant inside player or they both have to be able to take the game over! I think that Walker just isnt capable of doing that on a regular basis. He is a great player but I believe that, just like you said, if we keep them both we need a better supporting cast-a supporting cast which is better than the ones those duos had, because our duo just isnt in their league due to Walkers inability to dominate opponents night in and night out!


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shiggins</b>!
> why is everyone saying that walker handles jermaine oneal in the playoffs?? O'Neal beasted the hell out of walker. O'Neal was the Pacers only player who played well. Sure Artest played good but most of his shots were bull**** underhand flip hooks or whatever. O'Neal carried that team by himself. And he did it against Walker. I agree the man was probably hurt. But in the beginning of the season when he wasnt hurt, he still didnt seem to be playing much different. *WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO IS JUMP!!!*








Give it up, the entire CeLtics team dominated the Pacers in the pLayoffs...You are 100% wrong........


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shiggins</b>!
> why is everyone saying that walker handles jermaine oneal in the playoffs?? O'Neal beasted the hell out of walker. O'Neal was the Pacers only player who played well. Sure Artest played good but most of his shots were bull**** underhand flip hooks or whatever. O'Neal carried that team by himself. And he did it against Walker. I agree the man was probably hurt. But in the beginning of the season when he wasnt hurt, he still didnt seem to be playing much different. *WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO IS JUMP!!!*


O'Neal carried the team for 2 or 3 quarters a game and then proceeded to disappear. Walker was the steadiest player in that series. Pierce had some bustout quarters, so he got a lot of the attention, but Walker was very consistent and efficient - much better than the regular season. Walker also shut down O'Neal in the big fourth quarter comeback that Pierce took over. Why can't people see that without Walker, there would never have been a second round appearance? 

Yes, Walker could jump more, but if he had a bad knee, that's not advisable. The higher you jump, the more vulnerable you are to injury, especially if you're already injured. Walker is not a shot blocker, but he has quick hands and can still pester you.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> O'Neal carried the team for 2 or 3 quarters a game and then proceeded to disappear. Walker was the steadiest player in that series. Pierce had some bustout quarters, so he got a lot of the attention, but Walker was very consistent and efficient - much better than the regular season. Walker also shut down O'Neal in the big fourth quarter comeback that Pierce took over. Why can't people see that without Walker, there would never have been a second round appearance?
> ...








Thank you <b>mrsister</b>!.......


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Walker huge in first round*

Some people didn't watch the entire series but proclaim to know what happened. Obviously, Pierce was the best player on the floor in the series. But the Celtics don't win without Walker. He did do an excellent job of playing O'Neal late in games. When O'Neal was scoring all of those points in the second and third quarters, ANTOINE WASN'T GUARDING HIM. But when the chips were on the table, Antoine told O'Brien he was up to the challenge and he SHUT HIM DOWN when it mattered. This while shooting 46%, scoring 19.5 and pulling down 7.7 rebounds.
If we trade him for Chris Bosh and Antonio Davis, so be it, but don't be revisionist historian. Antoine was big in that series.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

It is time to get something straight here. I know Paul Pierce can do no wrong in some peoples eyes but listening to people still insist he was the reason we won that Indiana series is starting to tick me off.
Pierce had a horrible shooting night the first game. He got to the line 21 times and like the clutch player he is he hit every free throw but he also shot 3 for 19 that game. He wasn't the best player on the floor during that game and especially not in that series. His free throws along with the play of Tony Delk (who basically owned the first quarter) and the AA playing of Antoine Walker along with every member of that Celtic team that played was the reason we won that game. Pierce had a great 4th quarter because the rest of the team sat back and let him take over. This was 100% a team win and anyone who can't admitt that Pierce had an off game and series isn't being fair to the rest of this Celtics team.

I know harping on what could have been an innocent comment by someone is really bad on my part but I had to say what I said above anyway. The team deserves some credit for the Celtics season. We would not have won 44 games with just Pierce on that floor and it is about time that some "fans" gave credit where credit is due. To the un-sung heroes like Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Mark Blount, Grang Long, JR Bremer and the rest of the guys on the CELTICS team. One player doesn't win a game and one player certainly doesn't win 44 games in a season.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Time for a bump. 

I wonder how people's opinions have changed over 2 years......


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