# Depth...



## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

Does anyone have an idea what Isiah is doing? It seems he is just blindly accumulating talent...the Knicks have some impressive depth, so maybe if the NBA was based on a continous set of 1-on-1 games the Knicks would be in good shape, but there has to be a three or four for one trade in the works...

Guards-Marbury, Robinson, Crawford, Richardson
Fowards-Ariza, Thomas, Lee, Taylor, Sweetney
Centers-James, Frye, Rose

(Projected twelve man roster)

Seems like all twelve players deserve some minutes...


----------



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

He's collecting assets for future deals. The trade that leads to the trade that leads to the star.


----------



## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

son of oakley said:


> He's collecting assets for future deals. The trade that leads to the trade that leads to the star.



That is what I would like to believe, but until he pulls it off I will remain skeptical...It seems that Isiah is better at finding talent in the draft than through trades and free agency...


----------



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

looking for that KG to NY deal


----------



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

MPK said:


> That is what I would like to believe, but until he pulls it off I will remain skeptical...It seems that Isiah is better at finding talent in the draft than through trades and free agency...


Let's be realistic, if he's not allowed the timeframe to build thru the draft and eventually under the cap free agency, trades are his only means to improve. And you only get a chance to rape a team once or twice in a career, so until that time you've got tot turn a lot of deals that just net you 10-20%. You gotta keep churning and churning trades trying to compound your interest each time.

If it were me I'd rather he mined the draft and went for a couple of real keepers, but Dolan wants some faces to market to put on the franchise to sell some seats and get to the playoffs ASAP. It's very hard to rebuild thru the draft while desperate to make the playoffs at the same time.


----------



## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

son of oakley said:


> Let's be realistic, if he's not allowed the timeframe to build thru the draft and eventually under the cap free agency, trades are his only means to improve. And you only get a chance to rape a team once or twice in a career, so until that time you've got tot turn a lot of deals that just net you 10-20%. You gotta keep churning and churning trades trying to compound your interest each time.
> 
> If it were me I'd rather he mined the draft and went for a couple of real keepers, but Dolan wants some faces to market to put on the franchise to sell some seats and get to the playoffs ASAP. It's very hard to rebuild thru the draft while desperate to make the playoffs at the same time.


I wasn't really advocating the "build through the draft" philospohy because I know it isn't realistic for the Knicks, but look at Isiah's record with the team...

His four draft picks have been Ariza, Frye, Robinson (de facto pick), and Lee. All look to be at the very least solid role players. I understand it is too early to judge the latter three, but I really doubt that any doesn't have an NBA career of a at least a backup. Remember, Isiah also drafted TMac...

Zeke's trade record has been a little more flawed (to say the least)...


----------



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

MPK said:


> I wasn't really advocating the "build through the draft" philospohy because I know it isn't realistic for the Knicks, but look at Isiah's record with the team...
> 
> His four draft picks have been Ariza, Frye, Robinson (de facto pick), and Lee. All look to be at the very least solid role players. I understand it is too early to judge the latter three, but I really doubt that any doesn't have an NBA career of a at least a backup. Remember, Isiah also drafted TMac...
> 
> Zeke's trade record has been a little more flawed (to say the least)...



Agreed. To me they aren't really a team yet, just a pile of assets. As such I think our best move would be to make another run at the lottery next year, to snag a few more. 

However, the win-while-we-rebuild directive doesn't really allow for that. And an good argument could be made that we're better off increasing the value of our current assets by winning and showcasing them as winners. In that way they have value whether you trade them or keep them.

I think isiah is basically doing a good job considering what he started with and the demand to produce ASAP. My biggest complaint is the with the high priced signings. I could do with guys like Marbury with 4 years at 76M remaining (putting Houston's contract to shame - not to mention we pay Penny for Steph too), and Mo Taylor at 9M/yr. But the guys with MLE-like contracts, like Q, JC, Malik, JYD, and all the youth don't really bother me. They're the type of good value contracts that have a chance to payoff well down the road.


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Now move JYD and Penny for Brian Grant, Lamond Murray and Loren Woods, with Devean George going to Toronto (or just devean going to NY, without include Toronto)

Why?

NY: Add a big PF who can help at C, and his contract ends after next season... Murray won't need (and won't have) much PT in NY, but he can shoot. Loren is another C.

Lakers: Penny can help them playing PG (Phil likes big PG's) and have an expiring contract. JYD is a good and energy rebounder.

TO (if included): Devean is better than Murray. Simple.


----------



## ERAFF (Jun 27, 2005)

So... Phil and Mitch trade a large expiring contract(Grant) and a faily useable player(George) for a Very Large expiring contract(Penny)....??? Penny is not a player any longer---he has devastating physical problems---15 minutes 70 times a year is completely out of reach for him.

The Lakers will trade Grant(who may still have a bit of use as a player) for very young guys...or a very long and expensive Cast-Off(a team looking to ditch a star and start over). Old, unplayable contract problems are NOT exchanged for each other in trades---it's just ridiculous.


----------



## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

He's finding a way to get Amare and Kobe, and play them in a half court set.

Thats unbeatable...


----------



## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

son of oakley said:


> He's collecting assets for future deals. The trade that leads to the trade that leads to the star.


^^^^^^^TRUTH


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

ERAFF said:


> So... Phil and Mitch trade a large expiring contract(Grant) and a faily useable player(George) for a Very Large expiring contract(Penny)....??? Penny is not a player any longer---he has devastating physical problems---15 minutes 70 times a year is completely out of reach for him.
> 
> The Lakers will trade Grant(who may still have a bit of use as a player) for very young guys...or a very long and expensive Cast-Off(a team looking to ditch a star and start over). Old, unplayable contract problems are NOT exchanged for each other in trades---it's just ridiculous.



You're half right...

A better version (more realistic):

Lakers send Brian Grant to NY; George and Slava Medvedenko to Toronto; Get JYD from NY, Jalen Rose and Aaron Williams from Toronto

Toronto send Jalen Rose and Aaron Williams to Lakers; Lamond Murray to NY; Get Penny Hardaway from NY, George and Slava from Lakers;

NY send Penny Hardaway to Toronto and JYD to Lakers; Get Brian Grant from Lakers and Lamond Murray from Raps;


TO: Is better to trade Rose than waive him (by trading Rose for an expiring contract, they can waive Alvin Williams)... Slava has a big body, and George can play more minutes in TO

Lakers get a tall player in Jalen Rose which can play SF, SG and PG, an experienced PF in Aaron (while get rid of Slava) and a good energy PF in JYD... Definitely more talent to LA

NY: Brian Grant can help at C too; Lamond Murray won't be much used.


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

Why do people think this board is a haven for dumping stupid deals



> Now move JYD and Penny for Brian Grant, Lamond Murray and Loren Woods, with Devean George going to Toronto (or just devean going to NY, without include Toronto)
> 
> Why?
> 
> NY: Add a big PF who can help at C, and his contract ends after next season... Murray won't need (and won't have) much PT in NY, but he can shoot. Loren is another C.


Brian Grant Lamond Murray?

:wtf


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Why would we want a one knee bandit like Brian Grant? We already have a player with chronic knee problems as it is.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I just love this..people bash Zeke and his trade history and then come up with the DUMBEST trade scenarios imaginable...


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

truth said:


> I just love this..people bash Zeke and his trade history and then come up with the DUMBEST trade scenarios imaginable...


Oh right... You will definitely use the (useful but not terrific) JYD a lot (and kill Sweetney minutes again) and specially Penny Hardaway a lot! lol
And the fact that Grant (who can play C too!) contract end after next season doesn't mean nothing too... is better to have JYD contract and the fantastic Penny... lol


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

truth said:


> I just love this..people bash Zeke and his trade history and then come up with the DUMBEST trade scenarios imaginable...


GUYS GUYS WAIT 6'9 BRIAN GRANT CAN PLAY CENTER!!!!! AND HE IS ONLY 33 SHOULD BE ENTERING HIS PRIME ANYTIME SOON UNLIKE THAT OLD UNDERSIZED GUY KURT THOMAS


I do however share his love of the ocean.

http://www.briangrant44.com/flash/main_flash.htm

The alantic really does suck balls. Well not really just around the NJ NY area. Maine is pretty nice. Still no comparision to the pacific.



HAHAHHA

976-TUNA Youth Fishing Program

That sounds way to pornographic!


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> GUYS GUYS WAIT 6'9 BRIAN GRANT CAN PLAY CENTER!!!!! AND HE IS ONLY 33 SHOULD BE ENTERING HIS PRIME ANYTIME SOON UNLIKE THAT OLD UNDERSIZED GUY KURT THOMAS
> 
> 
> > Oh yeah, Penny is a sophomore! What a yooooung guard! He is a waaaay useful... actually, he is a waaay better than he was in Orlando...
> ...


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Zuca said:


> Oh yeah, Penny is a sophomore! What a yooooung guard! He is a waaaay useful... actually, he is a waaay better than he was in Orlando...
> 
> Oh, and what about JYD? He is a useful energy rebounder, but the best thing about him is his sweet and short contract! Everything that NY needs!
> 
> ...


First of all, I know we not keeping Penny.. Some where somehow he will be shipped out. So keep your sarcasm somewhere else. How about this, worry about the Hawks, Grizz and the Raptors since those are your favorite teams. Don't start coming in here with stupid trade scenarios, then get all sarcastic and bent out of shape when folks shoot you down. That dosen't fly on this board. :naughty:


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Kitty said:


> First of all, I know we not keeping Penny.. Some where somehow he will be shipped out. So keep your sarcasm somewhere else. How about this, worry about the Hawks, Grizz and the Raptors since those are your favorite teams. Don't start coming in here with stupid trade scenarios, then get all sarcastic and bent out of shape when folks shoot you down. That dosen't fly on this board. :naughty:


First of all, Raps are involved in this scenario...

Second, they tell about Brian grant at C, comparing with Kurt Thomas situation, which is in completely diferent situations. KT was playing C basically ALL THE TIME, since this team didn't have any C's. Now you guys have Frye and Jerome James, so if Brian Grant play C, it will be JUST in garbage minutes...

Third, folks shoot me down? C'mon... They talk about old players forgeting what Penny is, and talk about bad contracts forgeting that JYD has a bad contract too... And you forget that some "great posters" post "stupid trade scenarios" too... And you forget another thing... sarcasm is a normal thing in some of this boards (like the NY forum)... you guys can be sarcastic, and if someone reply, then you get a way nervous... It isn't the first time that it happens in this board... but some of you guys can be sarcastic, and other posters (like myself) can't be...


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

Zuca said:


> Biggestfanoftheknicks said:
> 
> 
> > GUYS GUYS WAIT 6'9 BRIAN GRANT CAN PLAY CENTER!!!!! AND HE IS ONLY 33 SHOULD BE ENTERING HIS PRIME ANYTIME SOON UNLIKE THAT OLD UNDERSIZED GUY KURT THOMAS
> ...


----------

