# http://www.helpkobe.com/



## nguyen_milan (Jun 28, 2005)

http://www.helpkobe.com/

:lol: :lol: :lol:
400 signs and 150 friends in 2 days :lol::clap:


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

nguyen_milan said:


> http://www.helpkobe.com/
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 400 signs and 150 friends in 2 days :lol::clap:


401 signs. I just signed it :biggrin:


----------



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Cool site. Naturally you're going to be pissed off when the most productive thing management has done in a three year span is trade Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins for Kwame Brown. In case you were wondering about Kupchak's _mass negotiating skills_: He also almost gave up a first round pick along with those two as well!


----------



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Just signed it and bookmarked it. Make that 402 sigs.


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> Cool site. Naturally you're going to be pissed off when the most productive thing management has done in a three year span is trade Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins for Kwame Brown. In case you were wondering about Kupchak's _mass negotiating skills_: He also *almost gave up a first round p*ick along with those two as well!


Oh that's it.....FRICK MITCH, FIRE HIM NOW!!!!!!!


----------



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

The One said:


> Oh that's [email protected] MITCH, FIRE HIM NOW!!!!!!!


Yep, somewhere along the line he forgot that he was the one doing the Wizards a favor by giving them two very proven players for an attitude problem draft day bust. He also gave them the choice of taking either Atkins or Devean George instead of just telling them that's the most their getting. The next best offer was James Posey for Kwame Brown by the Grizzlies.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Help Kobe? Forget that. It's about helping the Lakers.


----------



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Help Kobe? Forget that. It's about helping the Lakers.


Helping Kobe and helping the Lakers are pretty much the same thing. Given the fact that he's the only one who actually does anything consistently. I've actually met people around L.A. that don't even call the L.A. Lakers the Lakers anymore. What do they call them? "The Los Angeles Kobe's", one man told me--"Why (I asked)?" *"Because he's the only one who does anything!"*


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

koberules24 said:


> Helping Kobe and helping the Lakers are pretty much the same thing. Given the fact that he's the only one who actually does anything consistently. I've actually met people around L.A. that don't even call the L.A. Lakers the Lakers anymore. What do they call them? "The Los Angeles Kobe's", one man told me--"Why (I asked)?" *"Because he's the only one who does anything!"*


Get off Kobe's nuts, please.

Kobe's teammates are not the best, but he is not the only one doing anything. They are not the LA Kobe's. His teammates are limited in talent, but he has not done well in maximizing their talent. Kobe still has much to learn in making his teammates better. I'm sick of seeing Kobe recklessly drive into crowds and scream at the refs when he doesn't get a call, or jack up shots with 2-3 defenders on him. I also think most LAKER fans (not Kobe homers) are disgusted with his atrocious play on defense that earned him a completely undeserved spot on first team all defense. The team's overall talent is limited, but Kobe is not without blame for the Lakers recent failures. 

Also, what attitude issues does Kwame Brown have exactly? As far as I can see, hes the only Laker who keeps his mouth shut and plays hard every game. He doesn't complain to the refs, does what Phil tells him to do, hustles and plays defense. Caron Butler is doing a great job in Washington but the Lakers needed size in the worst way that season. The soft interior that had then would be no different now. The only thing PROVEN about Atkins was that he was a streaky shooter who sucked at defense, and really, the Lakers whipping boy before Smush arrived.


----------



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Drewbs said:


> Get off Kobe's nuts, please.
> 
> Kobe's teammates are not the best, but he is not the only one doing anything. They are not the LA Kobe's. His teammates are limited in talent, but he has not done well in maximizing their talent. Kobe still has much to learn in making his teammates better. I'm sick of seeing Kobe recklessly drive into crowds and scream at the refs when he doesn't get a call, or jack up shots with 2-3 defenders on him. I also think most LAKER fans (not Kobe homers) are disgusted with his atrocious play on defense that earned him a completely undeserved spot on first team all defense. The team's overall talent is limited, but Kobe is not without blame for the Lakers recent failures.
> 
> Also, what attitude issues does Kwame Brown have exactly? As far as I can see, hes the only Laker who keeps his mouth shut and plays hard every game. He doesn't complain to the refs, does what Phil tells him to do, hustles and plays defense. Caron Butler is doing a great job in Washington but the Lakers needed size in the worst way that season. The soft interior that had then would be no different now. The only thing PROVEN about Atkins was that he was a streaky shooter who sucked at defense, and really, the Lakers whipping boy before Smush arrived.


*What are you talking about??? Do you remember why the Wizards traded Kwame Brown? Do you remember his constant unpleasant confrontations with his Head Coach and teammate Michael Jordan? Do you know why Phil Jackson has had problems with Kwame Brown in the past? Have you seen Kwame Brown initiate fights on the court (see both Phoenix series)?** As for your comments about Kobe, it's obvious you don't like him, so why bother?* *If you hate somebody why would anybody listen to your unfounded negative opinions?*


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

koberules24 said:


> *What are you talking about??? Do you remember why the Wizards traded Kwame Brown? Do you remember his constant unpleasant confrontations with his Head Coach and teammate Michael Jordan? Do you know why Phil Jackson has had problems with Kwame Brown in the past? Have you seen Kwame Brown initiate fights on the court (see both Phoenix series)?** As for your comments about Kobe, it's obvious you don't like him, so why bother?* *If you hate somebody why would anybody listen to your unfounded negative opinions?*


its obvious I don't like Kobe? No I like Kobe very much, hes my favorite player, but I'm not blind and I'm very aware that unless my favorite player makes changes to his approach to the game, that his legacy will never amount to what it should be for a player of his talent. Kwame Brown was in a very bad situation in Washington. Hell, based on your evaluation, Kobe also has a bad attitude. Do you remember his unpleasant confrontation with Phil Jackson? or teammate Shaq? Do you remember Kobe getting into fights on court? with Chris Childs? or Reggie Miller? What real problems did Kwame have with Jackson? Also, any confrontation between Jordan and Kwame was Jordan's fault. Kwame was a kid coming out of high school, and Jordan took it upon himself to make his life miserable. How are you supposed to respond when you have the greatest player of all time publicly calling you out every time you don't meet his standards? Thats not an attitude problem, thats a bad situation.

Don't be a homer. Kobe did his job and carried the Lakers, but hes far from flawless. You cannot possibly tell me that he doesn't play selfishly at times, or that his defense has even been passable much less first team caliber the last few seasons. For every time he shuts down a great perimeter player, he gets lit up by mediocre players by simple lack of focus and intensity on the defensive end. That warrants a first team selection? please...


----------



## P-Rez25 (Nov 24, 2006)

Drewbs said:


> Get off Kobe's nuts, please.
> 
> Kobe's teammates are not the best, but he is not the only one doing anything. They are not the LA Kobe's. His teammates are limited in talent, but he has not done well in maximizing their talent. Kobe still has much to learn in making his teammates better. I'm sick of seeing Kobe recklessly drive into crowds and scream at the refs when he doesn't get a call, or jack up shots with 2-3 defenders on him. I also think most LAKER fans (not Kobe homers) are disgusted with his atrocious play on defense that earned him a completely undeserved spot on first team all defense. The team's overall talent is limited, but Kobe is not without blame for the Lakers recent failures.
> 
> Also, what attitude issues does Kwame Brown have exactly? As far as I can see, hes the only Laker who keeps his mouth shut and plays hard every game. He doesn't complain to the refs, does what Phil tells him to do, hustles and plays defense. Caron Butler is doing a great job in Washington but the Lakers needed size in the worst way that season. The soft interior that had then would be no different now. The only thing PROVEN about Atkins was that he was a streaky shooter who sucked at defense, and really, the Lakers whipping boy before Smush arrived.


i think what this guy is trying to say is that it could be worse, we could be Bobcats fans :lol:


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> You cannot possibly tell me that he doesn't play *selfishly* at times, or that his defense has even been passable much less first team caliber the last few seasons. For every time he shuts down a great perimeter player, he gets lit up by mediocre players by simple lack of focus and intensity on the defensive end. That warrants a first team selection? please...


Some call it selfishness some call it assertiveness.  Depends on how one looks at it.

As for defense. This was definitly a rep placing by the league. Kobe was horrible defensively during the beginning of the season and only decent defensive during the rest of the season. IMO you have to be *GREAT* all season to be on the first team and Kobe should not have been there. They should have just put in Shawn Marion (even though he's a forward) because he is long over due for a all-defensive team placement.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

:lol: 

Signed!


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Man, I ****in hate a lot of Lakers fans (not all, but A LOT) attitudes surrounding this team. Kobe isn't the only player on this team. Kobe isn't perfect. Whenever Kobe's doing something wrong, its never his fault, right? Its his teammates fault.

Kobe as of now is a below average defender. Sure, he can play defense when he wants to. But when does he want to? He doesn't play good D on a consistent basis. Don't even bring up Kobe's 2 steals per game, cause when he doesn't get the steal, usually its 2 free points. He leaves shooters open to kill us all the damn time and doesn't respect anyone's offensive game, unless its Vince Carter, Ray Allen or Tracy McGrady. His gambling always leads to our guys inside responsible. Huh, and people complain about our interior defense. If your gonna complain about our poor interior defense, or just plain defense, Kobe contributes to it just as much as the next guy on our team. 

Is it his teammates fault when Kobe goes hurling into a crowd, misses and screams his *** off at the ref? His attitude towards the refs is unacceptable. And again, when he barks at the ref instead of getting back on D, hes hurting the defense. Or is it okay for Kobe to hurl up ****, complain, and Odom be the only one back on D?

Its on Kobe when he settles for jumpshots when hes the most athletic player on the team, and when he jumps up to pass and just hurls it at any direction and its a turnover. 

Bottom line is, a lot of people gotta stop putting all the blame on the other players and hold Kobe accountable for things too.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> Man, I ****in hate a lot of Lakers fans (not all, but A LOT) attitudes surrounding this team. Kobe isn't the only player on this team. Kobe isn't perfect. Whenever Kobe's doing something wrong, its never his fault, right? Its his teammates fault.
> 
> Kobe as of now is a below average defender. Sure, he can play defense when he wants to. But when does he want to? He doesn't play good D on a consistent basis. Don't even bring up Kobe's 2 steals per game, cause when he doesn't get the steal, usually its 2 free points. He leaves shooters open to kill us all the damn time and doesn't respect anyone's offensive game, unless its Vince Carter, Ray Allen or Tracy McGrady. His gambling always leads to our guys inside responsible. Huh, and people complain about our interior defense. If your gonna complain about our poor interior defense, or just plain defense, Kobe contributes to it just as much as the next guy on our team.
> 
> ...


I really don't understand the point of this post, unless you would rather trade Kobe, and keep Odom and Bynum, OR keep the team how it is (which IMO is not acceptable). Obviously Kobe needs help... it's been shown on what the other guys have shown throughout this season and the playoffs. Odom was the only other one really stepping up this post-season. 

We've already shown our disgust on how Kobe plays his defense majority / certain times, which you can discuss that issue if you would like here: http://www.basketballforum.com/los-angeles-lakers/349808-kobes-defense.html 

Having said that about his defense, obviously Kobe is the best player on this team, we need to build around him and change this team up, which is the whole point of this current thread. It would be nice to keep players like Odom, but it doesn't look like it's likely that we are going to keep him, if we want another superstar. Kobe has his faults sure... but he doesn't exactly have alot of help around him...

For the threads sake, I do not want this to turn into a Kobe's defense thread again. If you want to complain about that do it in the link above.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Eternal said:


> I really don't understand the point of this post, unless you would rather trade Kobe, and keep Odom and Bynum, OR keep the team how it is (which IMO is not acceptable). Obviously Kobe needs help... it's been shown on what the other guys have shown throughout this season and the playoffs. Odom was the only other one really stepping up this post-season.
> 
> We've already shown our disgust on how Kobe plays his defense majority / certain times, which you can discuss that issue if you would like here: http://www.basketballforum.com/los-angeles-lakers/349808-kobes-defense.html
> 
> ...


Kobe is the center piece and he does need help, moves do need to be made, I don't think anyone is disputing that, its just annoying when homers pretend like the guy is flawless and the lack of success is due only to his teammates.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> Kobe is the center piece and he does need help, moves do need to be made, I don't think anyone is disputing that, its just annoying when homers pretend like the guy is flawless and the lack of success is due only to his teammates.


Right, but that isn't what this thread is about.


----------



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Drewbs said:


> its obvious I don't like Kobe? No I like Kobe very much, hes my favorite player, but I'm not blind and I'm very aware that unless my favorite player makes changes to his approach to the game, that his legacy will never amount to what it should be for a player of his talent. Kwame Brown was in a very bad situation in Washington. Hell, based on your evaluation, Kobe also has a bad attitude. Do you remember his unpleasant confrontation with Phil Jackson? or teammate Shaq? Do you remember Kobe getting into fights on court? with Chris Childs? or Reggie Miller? What real problems did Kwame have with Jackson? Also, any confrontation between Jordan and Kwame was Jordan's fault. Kwame was a kid coming out of high school, and Jordan took it upon himself to make his life miserable. How are you supposed to respond when you have the greatest player of all time publicly calling you out every time you don't meet his standards? Thats not an attitude problem, thats a bad situation.
> 
> Don't be a homer. Kobe did his job and carried the Lakers, but hes far from flawless. You cannot possibly tell me that he doesn't play selfishly at times, or that his defense has even been passable much less first team caliber the last few seasons. For every time he shuts down a great perimeter player, he gets lit up by mediocre players by simple lack of focus and intensity on the defensive end. That warrants a first team selection? please...


So when Kobe was a kid coming out of high school his unpleasant confrontations with Shaq and later with Phil Jackson were all his fault but Kwame's with Michael Jordan and his coach weren't? *I've never said that Kobe was flawless or any of the above you've written.* And would you stop calling me and everybody else a homer? Nobody even gets it. I can't tell whether you're trying to compare me to Homer Simpson or to the ancient philosopher.


----------



## nguyen_milan (Jun 28, 2005)

Eternal said:


> Right, but that isn't what this thread is about.


yup, everyone just chill out and have a good laugh, off-season is long enough for you too come back over and over and over again lol


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

koberules24 said:


> So when Kobe was a kid coming out of high school his unpleasant confrontations with Shaq and later with Phil Jackson were all his fault but Kwame's with Michael Jordan and his coach weren't? I've never said that Kobe was flawless or any of the above you've written. And would you stop calling me and everybody else a homer? Nobody even gets it. I can't tell whether you're trying to compare me to Homer Simpson or to the ancient philosopher.


Kobe feuded with Shaq and Jackson as a 25 year old man, not a kid out of high school. His feud was a direct result of both him and Shaq having overinflated egos, not due to Shaq publicly calling him out during his rookie year every time he didn't perform well like Jordan did. Brown had problems with Jordan because Jordan destroyed his psyche during their tenure as teammates. MJ's systematic abuse of Kwame Brown is... pretty well documented. Its quite a different situation.


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Eternal said:


> I really don't understand the point of this post, unless you would rather trade Kobe, and keep Odom and Bynum, OR keep the team how it is (which IMO is not acceptable). Obviously Kobe needs help... it's been shown on what the other guys have shown throughout this season and the playoffs. Odom was the only other one really stepping up this post-season.


The point of the post is, Kobe should be held accountable for some things, not just the other guys. Everything seems like "its his teammates, its his teammates," especially the website. I dont know why you think I want Kobe traded.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> The point of the post is, Kobe should be held accountable for some things, not just the other guys. Everything seems like "its his teammates, its his teammates," especially the website. I dont know why you think I want Kobe traded.


We do hold Kobe accountable for problems he has, particularly his D. The main problem IS his teammates which is why you hear us keep saying "its his teammates".

I never implied you wanted Kobe traded. Was just listing possible reasons and trying to get a grip on why you were coming across so angry, since this whole thread is about getting Kobe some more help, and you came across IMO like Kobe was the problem and not his teammates.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

LamarButler said:


> The point of the post is, Kobe should be held accountable for some things, not just the other guys. Everything seems like "its his teammates, its his teammates," especially the website. I dont know why you think I want Kobe traded.


If you think this site has an abundance of Kobe homers, make your way over to places like LG or CL. You will find out what a real fanboy looks like.


----------



## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

Honestly the whole thing about Kobe being a bad defender is way overplayed. Here are the other starting shooting guards in the league. The ones in bold are the ones you could make an argument for being better defenders than Kobe.

Joe Johnson
Matt Carroll
Paul Pierce
Ben Gordon
Larry Hughes
Allen Iverson
*Richard Hamilton*
Jason Richardson
Tracy McGrady
Mike Dunleavy
*Cuttino Mobley*
Mike Miller
*Dwyane Wade*
Michael Redd
Randy Foye
Vince Carter
Devin Brown
Jamal Crawford
*Andre Iguodala*
Grant Hill
*Raja Bell*
Brandon Roy
Kevin Martin
Manu Ginobili
Ray Allen
Anthony Parker
DeShawn Stevenson
Derek Fisher

That puts him at *worst *in the 20 percent.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Laker Freak said:


> Honestly the whole thing about Kobe being a bad defender is way overplayed. Here are the other starting shooting guards in the league. The ones in bold are the ones you could make an argument for being better defenders than Kobe.
> 
> Joe Johnson
> Matt Carroll
> ...


Are you serious? I consider Johnson, Ginobili, Iguodala, Bell, Hughes, Hamilton, Mobley, and even McGrady lately to all be more consistent defenders than Kobe. The only time Kobe plays good defense is when hes matched up against another star swingman. Otherwise, he simply doesn't care, hence scrubs like Kleiza have career shooting nights vs. LA.


----------



## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

Get Kobe Help!

This should be a TV show.


----------



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Drewbs said:


> Kobe feuded with Shaq and Jackson as a 25 year old man, not a kid out of high school. His feud was a direct result of both him and Shaq having overinflated egos, not due to Shaq publicly calling him out during his rookie year every time he didn't perform well like Jordan did. Brown had problems with Jordan because Jordan destroyed his psyche during their tenure as teammates. MJ's systematic abuse of Kwame Brown is... pretty well documented. Its quite a different situation.


Do you have any idea how much pressure Kobe received from his teammates (including Shaq and management) when he made his jump to the NBA? He received nothing but constant criticism from the L.A. media and those around him. Kwame was hit with so much criticism b/c he was essentially handed the world when he was drafted to help save a sorry franchise. Kobe Bryant had to fight to even get the chance to start, AND WHEN HE DID, he was met with the alleged "Shaq jealousy" phase that supposedly began around 1998. Kobe has been met with non-stop criticism his entire career it still hasn't stopped him from becoming the best player in the league and YES one of the "elite" players of all time. He may be arrogant or egotistical but find me someone who is as talented as he is that isn't. A great deal of his dominance both offensively and defensively comes from his high confidence level. Much of what players achieve during their careers is purely psychological and it's b/c reasons like that Kwame Brown and the Ryan Leaf's of sports don't succeed.


----------



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

SoCalfan21 said:


> Get Kobe Help!
> 
> This should be a TV show.


That's what they did yesterday after the Spurs/Suns game on the _Sports Zone_ thing here in Los Angeles. They called _*Extreme Makeover: Lakers Edition*_


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> If you think this site has an abundance of Kobe homers, make your way over to places like LG or CL. You will find out what a real fanboy looks like.


They should be ashamed of themselves. Setting up camp on a person's genitalia who you don't even know personally is the highest degree of fanboyism. I'm wondering just how many of these fanboys are under 30? I'm guessing about 95%. With all of the great players that this franchise has had, it's scary to think that some people actually believe that Kobe Bryant is the best player in its history, bar none. Scary.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Not sure if this is on topic, but...

<a href="http://getgarnett.com/">GetGarnett.com</a>


----------



## Silk D (Feb 6, 2006)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> If you think this site has an abundance of Kobe homers, make your way over to places like LG or CL. You will find out what a real fanboy looks like.



for real. it's like the kobe equivalent of Amareca X 1,000 over there. I'm so glad I found this board. it's easy to understand why there's a stigma about us laker fans.


----------

