# Why I Don't Think Ainge Is An Idiot...



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

This is coming from a Bulls fan...

I don't necessarily agree with his moves, but it's clear he has a plan unlike our GM...

How much further were you guys going to go with the team you had and for how much longer?

You guys have talent, plenty of draft picks, he has a lot to play with and I'm sure he'll start playing with it better.

It's much better than being in our situation where we have no money, not a lot of draft picks, not a lot of flexibility except the hope we grow from within and get a savior in the draft....which we probably won't...

Anyway, I'm curious what you guys think, I have seen a few games and I like what I see, especially right now against Minnesota.


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

danny is either the massiah, or the anti christ around here. Until the team challanges for a ring or hits the lottery for the 3rd year running, that will pretty much the situation for a while i'd imagine.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Now that the C's have a 5 game win streak on their hands Danny is back to looking like a genius.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> Now that the C's have a 5 game win streak on their hands Danny is back to looking like a genius.


Last time they had a 5 game win streak he broke the team apart. Luckily, he can't trade anyone this time. Otherwise, I think Jiri would be traded because he's playing too well.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> This is coming from a Bulls fan...
> 
> I don't necessarily agree with his moves, but it's clear he has a plan unlike our GM...
> ...


He does have a plan, but will it pan out or not remains to be seen. We don't have any money just like you guys and now because of this 5 game win streak we may make the playoffs which means all 3 of our lottery picks in the first round will be crappy. We have a lot of role players but no one but Peirce is a starter on a championship team IMHO and he's had a terrible season by his standards. So in other words, the jury is still out.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: Why I Don't Think Ainge Is An Idiot...*



> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> 
> 
> He does have a plan, but will it pan out or not remains to be seen. We don't have any money just like you guys and now because of this 5 game win streak we may make the playoffs which means all 3 of our lottery picks in the first round will be crappy. We have a lot of role players but no one but Peirce is a starter on a championship team IMHO and he's had a terrible season by his standards. So in other words, the jury is still out.


Bruce Bowen, Rick Fox (three times), Mario Ellie, Luc Longley (three times), Vernon Maxwell (twice), and BJ Armstrong (three times) have started for the last 13 NBA championship teams. I have no doubt that Jiri, Ricky, or Atkins could start on a championship team. With some development, Perkins, Banks, and Hunter could be there as well. We have enough to round out a starting five.

David Robinson, Kobe Bryant (three times), David Robinson, Scottie Pippen (three times), Clyde Drexler, and Scottie Pippen (another three times), have started for 12 of the last 13 NBA Champions. These guys are players who would be the best player on atleast 20 other NBA teams, but played second fiddle to main guy on their team. In Paul Pierce, we have someone who would be great as the second best guy on the team.

Tim Duncan, Shaq O'Neal (three times), Tim Duncan, Michael Jordan (three times), Hakeem Olajuwon (twice), and Michael Jordan (three times) have started for the last 13 NBA Championship teams. That's what we're missing. Those guys were among the two or three best players in the league the years that their teams won the championship.

So is that guy available in this draft? Howard, Okafor, and Deng all should become all-stars in the league, but are any of them top three players? That's really what we need to be looking for at this point. A lot of what Ainge sees as the future of the Celtics is already here, we're just missing that guy who will be the man.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I hope WG/WF Shawne Williams (6'9) enters the draft. I think he has a chance to be a special player out of the 2004 class. He has the biggest potential I have seen out of that class. He is a McGrady-esque talent. If they could nab him with one of their picks, (if he comes out) I would be satisfied.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I hope WG/WF Shawne Williams (6'9) enters the draft. I think he has a chance to be a special player out of the 2004 class. He has the biggest potential I have seen out of that class. He is a McGrady-esque talent. If they could nab him with one of their picks, (if he comes out) I would be satisfied.


Where does he fit with Paul, Ricky, and Jiri? Also, dont' forget that Jumaine is still around and I'm still convinced that he's a good player who just never got into the flow of things this year.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Kevin McHale on Ainge*

I suppose you guys think Kevin is an idiot, too, but:

"If you listen to the people who are *****ing and complaining, you'd swear Danny broke up a team that won 64 games instead of 44 in the Eastern Conference last year. And let me tell you something: Winning 44 games in the Eastern Conference is like, well, someone's got to do it. That's not a world-beating type of operation there. I don't think he broke up the 1964 Celtics."

``He did not think his team was put together to be the type of team he wanted, so he's made some changes,'' McHale said. ``And I don't think he thought he was changing the team to become an Eastern Conference champion this year. He's changing the team for the future and to be a contender for everything. 

``The problem he's running into is that we don't live in a very patient society. Everybody wants to be better yesterday. It's a microwave society. If it's done in 30 seconds, it sucks. But that's not the way sports are. You have to put in years with guys.''


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I think this kid is going to be that big time player. He has tremendous skills and he just needs to be schooled in the NBA game before he is unleashed on the rest of the league. Whoever gets that kid will have a star for sure. 

I think no matter what happens, is that Ainge needs to draft the best players available. Never go for need unless the need is the best player. 

Like if Chicago had got the No. 1 pick, I would have traded Curry in a second and picked Yao Ming. You always take the best player available and let's hope Ainge thinks that way too. 

Celtics should fill their roster up with the best players imaginable. I also agree with you on Jumaine Jones. He is not a bad player and got lost in the shuffle. 

Welsch, Davis
Pierce, Jones 

Those 4 are a good SG/SF rotation.


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## lochdoun (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I think no matter what happens, is that Ainge needs to draft the best players available. Never go for need unless the need is the best player.


Last time we did that it was 2001 where we drafted 3 players with the same position as Paul Pierce and they never got a chance to play and now all three are gone and are not even good enough to be role players.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lochdoun</b>!
> 
> 
> Last time we did that it was 2001 where we drafted 3 players with the same position as Paul Pierce and they never got a chance to play and now all three are gone and are not even good enough to be role players.


Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte were the best players available?  Joe was always an undersized two guard and Kedrick was more raw than a HS player.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte were the best players available?  Joe was always an undersized two guard and Kedrick was more raw than a HS player.


Forte was a Scoring PG...Kedrick was a SG/SF..

The question is..Who would the Celtics trade.....Welsch or Davis? Jones would probably get selected by the Bobcats in the expansion draft (wrong system). I think Davis woul get traded because of his contract. I would perfer Welsch to be traded becasue his habit of being streaky. Pierce would be the best solution to a trade because he doesn't fit into the teams system anymore. He would excel in a half-court walk offense. Danny Ainge is stressing Fast Break Basketball and Pierce demands the ball too much and he doesn't run. Pierce would be the a top five player if he ran and slashed to the basket as he used to. I remember he would get 20+ free throws and many assists. Now, that doesn't happen because he is settling for the long-range two or three. His legs get tired from jumpshots and he disapeers in 4th quarters (imagine that). Welsch, Banks, Mihm, Atkins Blount and Davis run. We have more athletic people now. Pierce needs to learn how to hustle. That's why if Pierce doesn't learn within next year, I would trade him for a more athletic shooter---Ray Allen, Michael Redd, Peja. I'm all for keeping Pierce, but sometimes you can't teach a person something. Pierce, in my opinion, thinks he can slack off and try sometimes. Danny Ainge needs to show Pierce that his job isn't that safe and cushy. If I was Ainge, I would openly put Pierce on the trade block in the summer WITH NO INTENTIONS OF TRADING HIM. I also think best player available is smarter (Darko and 'Melo...Bowie and MJ). It just comes down to a matter of who to trade. Walter and Jones are the most possible players to be traded and that leaves us with three players fighting for two slots. If we draft a SG/SF, then Jiri, Davis, or Pierce should be traded. This is all in my opinion, but that's what I can see the Celtics (Danny Ainge) doing if he drafted a collegian SG/SF.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Good analysis Celts11. Next time do you think you could break that up into paragraphs. That was huge.   

I think Pierce will probably be dealt as well. On Forte, he was the SG at UNC, because Ronald Curry was the PG. He never had the ball-handling ability to be a top notch PG in the NBA and he didn't have the size to be a good SG. Plus Forte's game was mid-range but his handles let him down. To me, I feel if Juan Dixon wasn't drafted by the Wizards he would be out of the league already.

Dixon and Forte to me are one and the same. Because of their size and ball-handling skills (or lack there of) they really have no position on the basketball court. They are just guards, who would be best served coming off the bench.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Good analysis Celts11. Next time do you think you could break that up into paragraphs. That was huge.


Haha..No prob 

On a Bigger Note: *1000!!!!* :gbanana: :wbanana: :cheers: :jump: :buddies:


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Why I Don't Think Ainge Is An Idiot...*



> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Bruce Bowen, Rick Fox (three times), Mario Ellie, Luc Longley (three times), Vernon Maxwell (twice), and BJ Armstrong (three times) have started for the last 13 NBA championship teams. I have no doubt that Jiri, Ricky, or Atkins could start on a championship team. With some development, Perkins, Banks, and Hunter could be there as well. We have enough to round out a starting five.
> 
> David Robinson, Kobe Bryant (three times), David Robinson, Scottie Pippen (three times), Clyde Drexler, and Scottie Pippen (another three times), have started for 12 of the last 13 NBA Champions. These guys are players who would be the best player on atleast 20 other NBA teams, but played second fiddle to main guy on their team. In Paul Pierce, we have someone who would be great as the second best guy on the team.
> ...


Great post agoo! The problem is we still need to find that guy who will be the man!


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Why I Don't Think Ainge Is An Idiot...*



> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> 
> Bruce Bowen, Rick Fox (three times), Mario Ellie, Luc Longley (three times), Vernon Maxwell (twice), and BJ Armstrong (three times) have started for the last 13 NBA championship teams. I have no doubt that Jiri, Ricky, or Atkins could start on a championship team. With some development, Perkins, Banks, and Hunter could be there as well. We have enough to round out a starting five.
> ...


Exactly Agoo!!!

We have plenty of guys on this team who are capable of starting on a championship team. As long as everyone remembers their role in winning. 

Paul Pierce is our leader and most talented player. Is he capable of being the leader on a championship team? I do not think so. 

So we need to get a new number one man. Can we trade for one? No way. So we need to steal one in the draft. Are we going to do it this year? Only if we can trade up or get very lucky in the lotto or get a sleeper that everyone lets slip. I am much more confident in Danny's evaluation of draft talent than I have been since Red was at the top of his game. So I am optimistic that he will do something positive in this draft.


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

problem is that there are about 25 other teams all looking for that alpha dog necessary to take them over the top. Patience may be a virtue, but it sucks if you are a fan!


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Kevin McHale on Ainge*

I do. This is the same guy who team can't get out of the first round and if his team continues to lose to teams like us and Miami they won't get out again this year.

Someone is going to walk all over Minny in the playoffs if they take their arrogant attitude of seperiority into the playoffs.

They fight against the West and could be the first team to lose to the East in the finals since MJ left the Bulls. If they even get that far.

We win 5 games (4 against the pathtic teams of the East. One not so pathtic but with out its two stars) and now people think this team is actually going to do something.

Let me throw Danny Ainge's words back at him. "Winning 44 games and making the playoffs and losing in the first two rounds isn't enough. He fails if this team doesn't win a title in his 3 year plan.





> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I suppose you guys think Kevin is an idiot, too, but:
> 
> "If you listen to the people who are *****ing and complaining, you'd swear Danny broke up a team that won 64 games instead of 44 in the Eastern Conference last year. And let me tell you something: Winning 44 games in the Eastern Conference is like, well, someone's got to do it. That's not a world-beating type of operation there. I don't think he broke up the 1964 Celtics."
> ...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

There's no pleasing some people. How can anyone guarantee a title in basketball? 

The former team was never going to go to the Finals so he wanted to start over. Why is that so hard to understand?


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> There's no pleasing some people. How can anyone guarantee a title in basketball?
> 
> The former team was never going to go to the Finals so he wanted to start over. Why is that so hard to understand?


He has said a million and a half times.
"Winning 44 games and going to the Eastern Conference finals isn't enough."
"He can't believe this town excepts mediocrity"
"this is a 3 year plan"

These are all Danny Ainge's words. He made them and he is a failure if he doesn't bring a title.

The team we have now isn't going to the finals either and the team we have next year or in the next 4 , 5,or 6 years isn't going to beat Shaq or Tim Duncan or Garnett.
Who are all young enough to play for 6 years plus

What I can't believe is how stupid some people are to believe that Danny Ainge can bring this town a title.

He can't except medocrity but he sure can put together a medicore team.

If your pleased with this team then you sure have low standards.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Why don't you storm the Celtics offices and demand Ainge quit his job then? You seem to know what to do, with the team. Why don't you buy the team and run it your way?


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> He has said a million and a half times.
> ...


Rome wasn't built in a day. Ainge is looking to build a deep running team like Sacramento has. He had Pierce and he's brought in Banks, Perkins, Hunter, Davis, Mihm, Atkins, Welsch and LaFrentz to add some depth. Those nine haven't been active for one game, let alone played in a game together.

Agree with him or not, the guy is trying to do something there. The previous leadership seemed content with the status quo, which was not going to compete for a championship but be just good enough to get us thinking about it. This team as presently constructed is not a championship team, but with this draft, free agency, and a few years of development, who knows what we could have.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

You feel free to except the pathetic product he put on the floor but I have the right to call Danny Ainge when he is nothing but a hypocritical liar.

This team is not getting to the finals as long as Jason Kidd is playing in the East and it isn't winning a title till Duncan, O'Neil and Garnett all retire.







> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Why don't you storm the Celtics offices and demand Ainge quit his job then? You seem to know what to do, with the team. Why don't you buy the team and run it your way?


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> You feel free to except the pathetic product he put on the floor but I have the right to call Danny Ainge when he is nothing but a hypocritical liar.
> 
> This team is not getting to the finals as long as Jason Kidd is playing in the East and it isn't winning a title till Duncan, O'Neil and Garnett all retire.



I honestly think that while Danny Ainge is the boss of the Celtics you would rather see them lose than win. :no:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> I honestly think that while Danny Ainge is the boss of the Celtics you would rather see them lose than win. :no:


Of course he does. He wants to be proven correct. If the Celtics win games, his argument loses.


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

the next 20 games will show what kind of result we have 

seriously, i'm looking towards next season and the draft but if the team rebuilt during the season can make the paly offs, well it says a lot about the east, but also a lot about the spirit of the players we have now.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> Agree with him or not, the guy is trying to do something there. The previous leadership seemed content with the status quo, which was not going to compete for a championship but be just good enough to get us thinking about it. This team as presently constructed is not a championship team, but with this draft, free agency, and a few years of development, who knows what we could have.


I agree that the previous leadership wasn't doing anything. After their run to the ECF, they took a step back instead of trying to build on a winning team. If they wanted to run, Walker needed to adapt, but I think he was ready and willing to run. He worked his butt off over the summer knowing that he needed to get in shape for that style of basketball. I think if Ainge had surrounded Pierce and Walker with more talent, the team wouldn't have remained stagnant. Another star player or two isn't unheard of - Lakers have four, Kings have at least four, Mavs arguably have five, Minnesota has three - four if you count Wally. Then you look at the standings, and those teams are at the top. Unfortunately, I think the previous leadership prevented the Celtics from being able to get another star player by getting Baker's contract. Now the Celtics only have one star and are a long way from getting two or three more. Counting on draft picks to develop into stars is a huge risk.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Pathetic Product?*

Sure, they're bad, but they're not pathetic. They've played a little better of late. And Miami beat Sacramento, too. C'mon.

Oh, and by the way Hong Kong. That he is a she. She loves Antoine, and I think she's bitter Antoine got benched by Nelson.


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## SavSicc (Feb 26, 2004)

Why are you so obsessed about antoine walker? Hes the guy that we needed points from when new jersey just anilhate us. Face it Antoine Walker is like a little piece to a championship team he woundn't carry us to the promise land even if danny kept him with this celtics team. That was a shame when New Jersey swept us. Kenyon Martin out = play Antoine Walker, and Antoine just went complaing to the refs that he's dunking on me. lol


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SavSicc</b>!
> Why are you so obsessed about antoine walker? Hes the guy that we needed points from when new jersey just anilhate us. Face it Antoine Walker is like a little piece to a championship team he woundn't carry us to the promise land even if danny kept him with this celtics team. That was a shame when New Jersey swept us. Kenyon Martin out = play Antoine Walker, and Antoine just went complaing to the refs that he's dunking on me. lol


I never said Walker would carry us to the promise land. I said with one or two more stars, he could've been a valuable piece. Instead, Walker is gone, and we have one star. And everyone points out the NJ series as the definition of Walker. Never mind that the previous series against the Pacers he played brilliantly and consistently and hardly took any threes. Pierce only showed up for one or two quarters a game. And don't forget that Walker played great in game 4 of the NJ series. He learned how to deal, and there's nothing to say that he wouldn't play differently the next time. If everyone's so worried about Kenyon Martin, then put someone else on him like Hunter and move Walker to SF. 

I'm not saying that Walker had to stay in order for the Celtics to be successful, but they traded away a star and didn't get one in return. Jiri is still up and down, and we'll have to wait and see about Raef, but I don't see him as a star, especially if he's injury prone. Baker was supposed to step up, but we all know what happened there. My point is that the team was undermanned but still winning. What would've happened had they gotten the extra talent and kept most of the core guys who could tough out wins just by playing hard? I think they could've added and subtracted pieces gradually until they found the right combination. The Pacers aren't radically different, and now they have the best record in the NBA. This is the team that the Celtics ousted in the first round. Maybe something as simple as a new coach (not Carroll) could've helped the Celtics.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Kevin was right...*

I gotta agree with old #32...This team won 44 games....IN THE EAST!!! Get over it people, we had to blow it up...All of a sudden Jiri is an "up and down" player? The guy has a high basketball IQ and can DEFEND, which he does consistently. Raef can play. And Antoine is whining on the bench in Dallas, where they have started to lose again.

Ainge has my respect for saying and doing what he believes--which is our team last year was never going to win anything, which it wasn't.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Kevin was right...*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Ainge has my respect for saying and doing what he believes--which is our team last year was never going to win anything, which it wasn't.


Who said anybody wanted the exact team from last year? The team two years ago was better than last year's team. Last year's team didn't have a decent rebounder other than Walker, who was playing too far away from the basket to rebound. Last year's team didn't have a point guard who could run the team in the half court or the fast break. Last year's team didn't have a reliable third (or fourth) scorer. The team two years ago didn't have any of those things either, but it was a better team. My belief is if we had gotten those three elements and kept Walker (or gotten equivalent talent in return for Walker) that the team would be better. And if two or three of those elements were more than just role players, that it could've taken us to the next level. Even one player can make a big difference (look what Kidd did to NJ). A coach can make a big difference. Getting a Shaq, a Garnett, or a Duncan is out of the question, so you have to try to get as much as you can. I also believe you keep guys like Eric Williams, whose value you just can't measure on paper. 

My feeling is that the trades Ainge has made haven't laid the foundation for a three year plan to a championship. Jiri is the only guy who I think is a good building block. When Raef comes back, he'll essentially be replacing Blount, so that's a wash. Jones is doing nothing. Stewart is doing nothing. As hard as Davis is working, I don't think he's a good fit. Can't put my finger on why. Chucky is a good veteran to have but not someone you build on. Mihm is ok but I don't think he'll be anything more than a role player. The true building blocks are Hunter, Perkins, and Banks, and they were here before any of the trades but never got a chance to show what they could do alongside the previous team. Essentially, Ainge is putting all his faith in the draft. I hope it pans out. I really do. But I think he's starting from a point that's way behind what was here last year. 

Ainge came into a bad financial situation and a nightmare with Baker, so I never expected him to work miracles. I'm also not opposed to trades. You have to give something to get something. However, I really think we gave away a lot more than we got, and that's what bugs me. The sad part is that we got enough to be a contender in the East, which kind of ruins his plans of getting a high draft pick, so we could end up with even more mediocre talent. Ainge is full of surprises, so I'm not counting him out of doing something amazing, but from what I'm seeing on the basketball court, it's not looking good, even with this five game winning streak. You can talk about fan patience, but it's the fans who are paying the salaries. They don't pay elevated ticket prices because they want to see a crappy product. It hurts even more because they spent years watching crap and finally they got a taste of something that was halfway decent only to have to start watching crap again. You can't call them on patience because it's not like they haven't already endured.


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## andy787 (Jun 9, 2003)

Look guys. in defense of Danny.

Walker is farting in Dallas after a good showing during the 1st half of the season. ( look at his field goal percentage )
If walker is with us this season, we would be stuck with an above average talent player that would we need to sign up for the maximum. or lose this guy for nothing. In return, we got Raef, Jiri and a 1st rounder instead of none.
E. williams might be a stabilyzing presence in the locker room. but is also in the last year of contract. we might not be able to resign this guy for what he might expect for what he is worth. we might also lose this guy also for nothing. instead we got R. davis.
T. Battie, we all know have gimpy knees. in exchange for the young C. Mihm.
K. Brown, in the injured list. M. Stewart, in the last year of contract nect season, which for us would be a valuable commodity for trades.
Plus, look at the players of last season's draft. which if graded would be either a- or b+.
Yes, chemistry was ruined. but, in the long run, we're much better than 44 win team. we just have to be patient.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>andy787</b>!
> Look guys. in defense of Danny.
> 
> Walker is farting in Dallas after a good showing during the 1st half of the season. ( look at his field goal percentage )
> ...


I just don't think Ainge had to be so hasty in dealing Walker. Walker's stock was at a low point. I think he would've been more valuable later in the season, and we could've gotten a better deal. Ainge felt that deal was the best he could do, and I disagree. We'll never know now, but that's how I feel. 

Trading E. for Davis was a big gamble in my opinion. Davis had not proven anything, could not get along with his coaches, and is certainly not the leader E. is. Again, I think a better deal could've been made. I don't really have a problem with Battie for Mihm, but then Brown had to be thrown in. I think another team would've had more to offer for those three. I don't know what Ainge's affinity for the Cavs is. 

I don't have a problem with the draft picks either, except that they aren't getting enough playing time. But as I mentioned, these guys were there before any of the trades. 

My question is: how are we better than a 44 win team in the near future? If it's a three year plan to a championship, and one year is almost over, then what's going to push us over the top or even get us close? Rookies and second year players? Jordan didn't win for seven years. Shaq didn't win for seven. What makes Ainge think these guys are gonna win within the next two years? It's just a ridiculous goal if you're gonna break up a team like that. Maybe eventually they'll win another championship, but I really can't see it in two years.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

Walker is adjusting to a whole different way of playing in Dallas then the way he he had to play here.
Whatever insults you had about his game he worked well with Pierce because he was willing to do the dirty work and not complain about getting no credit.

Walker would be having a better season if he played here and anyone who thinks this team wouldn't be better with him here doesn't know basketball.

To answer the question about losing games. According to Danny Ainge this team is building through the draft. We will not get any better if we stay in the middle of the draft and keep getting mediocre players.
This plan has no chance of working the way it is currently being run.


The Kenyon Martin argument is complete BS. Did anyone see Walker play NJ *this* year? He out played Kenyon and was the leading scorer for the game with all his points coming when the game was on the line. Walker took the game over. 

None of you remember the Indiana series. Antoine Walker was the key reason we won that series.
All this hate on Battie is complete BS too because if any of you watched game 6 you would remember what happened when Indiana made their run. Battie saved our butts with several key plays.

None of you have any respect for what this team accomplished in the last 2 years. The fact that you are celebrating Mihm as some kind of key player to a championship team says it all.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I love Agoo's post about how we need to find "the man", I think too many people think Paul is gonna be "the man" but I think Agoo is correct, Paul is a Scottie Pippen, he's the sidekick, not the main show. That has become increasingly evident this year. The bad part of this is, I see no Garnett/Duncan type players in this upcoming draft and I don't know where we are gonna find "our man". 
I'm very discouraged by the excitement people have over this recent win streak. I see nothing to be excited about. They have been terrible wins mostly against crappy teams and all it is doing is taking us out of the lottery and pushing us into a first round playoff loss and making our future look like more mediocricy. I'm so tired of watching crappy teams. I wanna watch a team of Celtics that looks like Sacramento or Minnesotta, full of big time players with great chemistry playing together.
I agree that Walker was a building block that we threw away for nothing. Walker wasn't gonna be a savior, but he was another star. To me when you trade a star you better get one back because there are not many to be had and they don't come easily. Raef & Jiri are not stars, they are good role players. We now are down to one star when I think you need 4 to win with a decent bench. I liked the idea of adding to Peirce and Walker. I do think it's water under the bridge now though and we need to move past it and seriously think about our future. I'm sorry if people disagree but I think that future looked better when we were gonna be a lottery team. :whatever:


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

IF, and its a bloody big IF, we can start taking 50% or so of those games we all thought were listed as a L for the remaining schedule against the good teams, I'll be happy for the team to keep progressing. We seem to have a lot more people contributing and a really good run to the play offs would go a long way to developing the team chemistry which people value from th elast 2 years. 

Further more, the draft looks like a pretty good crap shoot so a few positions up or down, from the 1st being 7 to 15 ,might not make a huge difference with 3 picks in the 1st round.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Let's Make the Playoffs, Please*



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> Walker is adjusting to a whole different way of playing in Dallas then the way he he had to play here.
> Whatever insults you had about his game he worked well with Pierce because he was willing to do the dirty work and not complain about getting no credit.


TRUE



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> Walker would be having a better season if he played here and anyone who thinks this team wouldn't be better with him here doesn't know basketball.


HALF-TRUE--The Celtics might be above .500, but the plan would have had to be scrapped. Walker would be shooting a lower percentage without Nash and the studs around him, that's for sure. He would be scoring more, but who knows how he'd rebound here? There just would have been conflicts with Walker's hold-the-ball style. 



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> To answer the question about losing games. According to Danny Ainge this team is building through the draft. We will not get any better if we stay in the middle of the draft and keep getting mediocre players.
> This plan has no chance of working the way it is currently being run.
> 
> ...


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Let's Make the Playoffs, Please*

Walker would be averging more rebounds in Boston then last year where he was hurt. He always averaged in the 8 or 9 range when he was here.
He isn't the point (though some would love to make him it)

We keep talking about needing a leader but we had one.
I don't think it is a coincidence that when Walker left the team fell apart.

You also seem to forget what having Walker around meant to Pierce's game. He was open more and had someone who always was willing to give Pierce the ball.


This winning streak against non quality teams has gotten into peoples heads and given them a false sense security.
Every team has a dream period when they get a new player. Look at the Knicks. They have gotten worse since they got Stephon Marbury after their honeymoon period.







> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> TRUE
> ...


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Two quick points*

Walker averaged 7 rebounds last year.

Minnesota isn't a quality team?


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## DJRaz (Aug 20, 2003)

*but*

what i don't understand is how you are gonna build around the cavs cast-offs? the cavs wheel some sorry *** players through the organization, and these days it seems they end up on the celtics. 

let me tell you celts fans, as a public service, that you should not build around anyone named chris mihm, ricky davis, or jumaine jones. i watched just about every game by those guys for years and they are each severely flawed, too much so to be any sort of foundation or key piece.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Building around Jumaine Jones?*

We're not building around any of those players. Davis and Mihm are pieces only. You might try watching one of our games sometime. You won't recognize the Ricky Davis you see. Good luck in the playoffs this year. LeBron is a great kid and a great player. 

See you were smart enough to rid yourself of JR. Kedrick should be next.


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## adamatic (Jan 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>bballin</b>!
> the next 20 games will show what kind of result we have
> 
> seriously, i'm looking towards next season and the draft but if the team rebuilt during the season can make the paly offs, well it says a lot about the east, but also a lot about the spirit of the players we have now.


BINGO!

Well said.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Building around Jumaine Jones?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> We're not building around any of those players. Davis and Mihm are pieces only. You might try watching one of our games sometime. You won't recognize the Ricky Davis you see. Good luck in the playoffs this year. LeBron is a great kid and a great player.
> 
> See you were smart enough to rid yourself of JR. Kedrick should be next.


I'm with you man. :yes:


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Two quick points*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Walker averaged 7 rebounds last year.
> 
> Minnesota isn't a quality team?


Walker was hurt last year. He in the past when not injured has averaged rebounds in the 8 and 9 range. [strike](Do I need to put this in bold to help you grasp the concept )
We all know your an Antoine hater but my God you refuse to give him any kind of credit for what went on here the last few years. That tells me a lot.[/strike]

Minnesota came in here thinking they were going to walk all over us. They didn't give us any kind of respect and we took advantage of that.
We aren't the first team to take advantage of them thinking a lower team would be a cake walk.

You've heard this before, but you seemed to have not noticed, so I'll put it in bold. *Personal attacks are not allowed.* ---agoo


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*You try to dispute the undisputable*

Minnesota is a high-quality team, and we beat them in their building.

Antoine averaged 7.2 rebounds per game last year in 40 minutes. I didn't realize "hurt" was a euphemism for "fat and out of shape."


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: You try to dispute the undisputable*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Minnesota is a high-quality team, and we beat them in their building.
> 
> Antoine averaged 7.2 rebounds per game last year in 40 minutes. I didn't realize "hurt" was a euphemism for "fat and out of shape."


Actually, hurt is a euphemism for "playing the second half of the season on one leg." That's what Antoine did last season.


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