# More proof Missouri is as dirty as they come



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> *Ex-college coach indicted on fraud counts*
> 
> A D V E R T I S E M E N T
> The Associated Press
> ...


Randy Pulley was another -- you guessed it -- Quin Snyder recruit. I'm sure there are quite a few poeple in Columbia, MO who are hoping for a plea and no trial.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

One of many allegations is that Wolf paid for Rickey Clemons' classes with his CREDIT CARD.

I'm not sure the NCAA penalties are quite yet done for Mizzou.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:



> The coach was also implicated on a variety of academic fraud charges centered on another Missouri transfer, Randy Pulley. Allegedly, Pulley picked up six credit hours during one "three- or four-day" visit.


Pulley, another fine Quin Snyder recruit.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I forget, who was Snyders mentor?


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HeinzGuderian</b>!
> I forget, who was Snyders mentor?


when was the last time carolina won anything


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

I honestly don't care anymore. What's done is done. Missouri will probably get hit again, but the NCAA does not want to make another Baylor or Prarie View A&M, either.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Priest</b>!
> 
> 
> when was the last time carolina won anything


touche :laugh:


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

Vincent, you conveniently forgot to bold this part:



> The 36 count indictment also charges Wolf, 32, of Martinsville, Ind., with providing false information about the athletes to officials at Missouri, San Jose State, Brigham Young and Butler County Community College, U.S. Attorney Eric Melgren said today.


It may have happened, but he lied about it to multiple schools. The NCAA investigated and found nothing wrong on Mizzou's end. They've finished their investigation and come to a conclusion. I know you loved every second of it, but it's not going to get reopened. Wolf is a dirty coach but that doesn't mean Mizzou was involved in any of it.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>pharcyde</b>!
> Wolf is a dirty coach but that doesn't mean Mizzou was involved in any of it.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. He, Odom (now fired) and Harvey (now fired) had nothing to do with having Rickey Clemons, a guy who couldn't even graduate high school, take 24 credit hours in one summer in order to get eligible for Mizzou...or getting Randy Pulley, a guy who could barely spell the state he played for, eligible either...

I'm sure Wolf and MU coaches had no correspondence in this regard whatsoever.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. He, Odom (now fired) and Harvey (now fired) had nothing to do with having Rickey Clemons, a guy who couldn't even graduate high school, take 24 credit hours in one summer in order to get eligible for Mizzou...or getting Randy Pulley, a guy who could barely spell the state he played for, eligible either...
> ...


Prove it. You can assume all you want, but the NCAA already looked into it and found nothing. They cleared both Clemons and Pulley initially, as did MU. If there is evidence connecting Quin or any of the coaches to the dirt with Wolf then show it to me. The NCAA certainly couldn't find it, and this legal thing hasn't dug up anything, either. Go ahead and have your opinion. What you think doesn't mean a thing.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>pharcyde</b>!
> 
> 
> Prove it. You can assume all you want, but the NCAA already looked into it and found nothing. They cleared both Clemons and Pulley initially, as did MU. If there is evidence connecting Quin or any of the coaches to the dirt with Wolf then show it to me. The NCAA certainly couldn't find it, and this legal thing hasn't dug up anything, either. Go ahead and have your opinion. What you think doesn't mean a thing.


Mizzou definitely won't get probation, either. Just a slap on the wrist.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

So I take it you have no evidence of Mizzou doing anything wrong in this case, then?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Let's just say I have a hunch. Just like last time.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Let's just say I have a hunch. Just like last time.


Last time you thought the NCAA would pin a whole lot of stuff on Mizzou that in the end they had absolutely no evidence for. Mizzou didn't pay anybody. Mizzou didn't commit academic fraud. They didn't do anything like that. You were wrong, as was I. The violations themselves weren't major individually, but the NCAA felt that together they were enough to hand Mizzou a fairly stiff penalty, including probation.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

I personally care less now. They got punished with the sanctions. I care less about this. It is more proof something is wrong with their athletic department, but I care less.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HeinzGuderian</b>!
> I forget, who was Snyders mentor?


Typical


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

Mizzou didn't get punished because there was no need to they aren't any good, that would be like picking on the struggling student who is trying to read. It wouldn't be polite and there is no real need to.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> Mizzou didn't get punished because there was no need to they aren't any good, that would be like picking on the struggling student who is trying to read. It wouldn't be polite and there is no real need to.


Wow!


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

Ok I was a little harsh on the boys from Columbia, but if you watch them play you can see that they are a bunch of semi-talented players who don't have a clue how to play basketball.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

C'mon.. The only person who doesn't have a clue about basketball is Quin.. Kleiza, McKinney, Horton, Grimes, Brown, Conley and Gardner could play big minutes at any program in the states!


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

Yea, but the don't play as a team at all that is there main problem
McKinny and Conley try to play 1 on 5 too often. I meant that they don't know how to play as a team and understand that basketball is a team sport.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

[strike]ChitwoodStyle = worst smacktalker ever.[/strike]

no insulting other users


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>pharcyde</b>!
> [strike]ChitwoodStyle = worst smacktalker ever.[/strike]
> 
> no insulting other users


Hey it doesn't bother me at all, during Quinn's tenure as coach they have never played as a team, and get outcoached everygame by every coach.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

You know what?.. I can't really argue with that!


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

If that were really the case then they would not have beaten teams like OSU, OU, KU (they have beat them before) and others. Quin hasn't been good, but you KU fans are underrating him. It's hard to coach a team when your assistants are completely worthless. Lane Odom and Tony Harvey didn't add a damn thing to gameday coaching and they deserved to be fired, probation or not.

You might not realize it yet, but Quin actually has Mizzou playing some pretty good ball right now. Sure, we're winning ugly, but there's nothing wrong with that when you're an unranked team beating top 10 squads like Gonzaga (I thought Mark Few was supposed to be some coaching genius. What happened there?).


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

The problem is that MU rarely beats anybody big on the road. Quinn had to know that his assistants weren't worth anything.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Quin didn't have a say about who his asst's would be!.. The deal was to get some "high character" people around his sorry ***.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>pharcyde</b>!
> If that were really the case then they would not have beaten teams like OSU, OU, KU (they have beat them before) and others. Quin hasn't been good, but you KU fans are underrating him. It's hard to coach a team when your assistants are completely worthless. Lane Odom and Tony Harvey didn't add a damn thing to gameday coaching and they deserved to be fired, probation or not.
> 
> You might not realize it yet, but Quin actually has Mizzou playing some pretty good ball right now. Sure, we're winning ugly, but there's nothing wrong with that when you're an unranked team beating top 10 squads like Gonzaga (I thought Mark Few was supposed to be some coaching genius. What happened there?).


Continuing to make excuses for Quin.

The funny thing is when the assistants were getting fired, Quin said that he accepts full responsibilty for the situation. But wait a minute, all the assistants got fired, and Quin kept his job. How is that accepting full responsibility?


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Lol.. All of his public appearances are comedy.. How anyone can take this cat at his word is beyond me.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Truth</b>!
> 
> 
> Continuing to make excuses for Quin.
> ...


Any coach will say that. Doesn't mean it's true. Quin didn't do anything to get fired anyway. The assistants were horrible and should have been fired based on coaching alone. The NCAA stuff was just an excuse.

This is not about me making excuses. This is about people being clueless about Quin as a coach. He hasn't been great, but he's far from horrible. He has made mistakes, but he's learned from each of them and will finish in the top four in the Big XII this year. Just wait and see.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>pharcyde</b>!
> 
> 
> Any coach will say that. Doesn't mean it's true. Quin didn't do anything to get fired anyway. The assistants were horrible and should have been fired based on coaching alone. The NCAA stuff was just an excuse.
> ...


Actually you are making excuses for Quin. He had a preseason top 5 team last year (possibly the most talented team in the country) and they lost in the first round of the NIT. Are you blaming that performance on the assistants? The team was bad because the assistant coaches were bad?

This, of course, excludes all of the off the court problems the program has experienced. 

If the above is not horrible, I guess I need to understand your definition of horrible.

Even if the assistants were not good coaches (and I would like to hear why you believe that) the Head Coach is ulitimately accountable.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

Last season's team was also probably the most overhyped team in the past five years. You say they had the most talent, but what exactly is that based on? Johnson and Paulding were good, but never outstanding on a consistent basis. They did, however, close the season out with a pair of huge games against Marquette in a loss. The media and fans took that and ran with it, and I was guilty of it, too. Everyone assumed AJ and RP would come back and play like that all season, but if anyone would have stepped back and looked at the situation they would have realized that MU was not that talented.

For one thing, they didn't have a point guard. McKinney's a decent player, but he can't play point for more than five minutes a game. Pulley was supposed to come in and do the job but he only lasted about five games before leaving the team (and he sucked in those five games). A team without a point guard is not going far, no matter who the other players are.

That team was also ranked so highly based in part on the expected contributions of Conley. He scored about 30 a game as a freshman, so people assumed he could consistently add somewhere in the 15 point range. He scored 15 points maybe three times on the season. Like McKinney, he's a nice player, but he's not a star, and coming into that season he was tremendously overrated.

Bryant was a McDonald's All American who underachieved from day one. I don't see the point in going more into it than that. He just wasn't any good.

Now, onto Rickey and Arthur. Yes, both were good college players, but all you need to do is take a look at where they are now to see how talented they were. Paulding's playing in Israel right now and Johnson's out of work. How can you continue to say those two were talented enough to even put Mizzou in the top 15, let alone top 5? At best they were both 15 point per game scorers.

Last year sucked, and I am blaming it in part on the assistants. If they weren't part of the problem, then why is this year's team playing so much better? Their record may not show it, but they're playing excellent defense and have been playing much more as a team. The bad threes and mental lapses that plagued earlier Quin teams are gone for the most part. The offense still isn't very good, but they're relying on a freshman point guard and lack a competent post scorer.

What exactly do you mean by "all the off the court problems?" A lot was said, but little of it was true. Don't believe me? Check the NCAA report. No academic fraud (which was one of the accusations). No payments to players (another accusation). Just a whole lot of fairly minor recruiting violations that added up to a big penalty.

If you think the assistants on last year's team were Big XII caliber then you either don't know basketball or you don't know Mizzou, because they were lost on the bench. They had next to no experience and were only here as recruiters. With the NCAA finding a ton of stuff wrong with the way they recruited (and the little thing about them pretty much sucking for two years in a row in the only thing they were here for), there was no reason to keep them. Mizzou replaced those two with three former head coaches and they now have something like 40 years of coaching experience added to their bench. That makes a huge difference.

I'm not making excuses. I'm telling it how it is. Mizzou has underachieved recently and a lot of that is due to Quin's inexperience, but you can't have an inexperienced head coach with inexperienced assistants. That's a recipe for disaster, and they fixed that problem. Quin is a smart coach and knows a lot about the game. He's passionate about coaching and cares about his players on and off the court. But he needed someone on his staff to guide him as he learned what it took to be a head coach and Mizzou didn't have that. Now they do and the changes are already apparent.

And for the record, he is being held accountable. His salary is frozen and if he doesn't produce this year his job is in serious jeopardy. There's no reason to fire a coach after one bad season and some ticky tack NCAA stuff (the same stuff everyone does, only in a bit greater frequency).


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