# It's not too late...but it's close



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I posted this in the game thread, but thought it should have it's own thread. Also make sure my math is correct on this. Liberal arts major in the house.

Looking at the schedule, if the Cavs win 2 of their 3 home games remaining and win the last game of the season against toronto...and lose the rest...so 3-4 of the last 7.

That would put them at: 41-41

New Jersey has this:
Apr 9 BOS
Apr 13 @IND
Apr 15 @TOR
Apr 17 PHI
Apr 19 WAS
Apr 20 @BOS

I figure they will lose to Indiana and one of the boston games.
4-2

Puts them at:41-41 and in.

Phil, has this:
[email protected]
Apr 12 BOS
Apr 14 MIA
Apr 15 @IND
Apr 17 @NJ
Apr 18 MIL
Apr 20 ATL

They lose at least 4 of those games. Which gives them 3-4 of their last 7.

And their final record would be...40-42

Cavs in.

So as bad as things look. The Cavs just have to hold their home court, or only lose one and win the last game against Toronto, and they should be able to make it in. That NJ-Phi game is going to really help the Cavs.

For reference-this is the Cavs closing schedule:
Apr 9 MIL
Apr 11 @ORL
Apr 14 NY
Apr 15 @WAS
Apr 17 @DET
Apr 19 BOS
Apr 20 @TOR

And I'm taking them over NY, Mil, and either Bos at home or Tor on the road. But they could give themselves a ton of breathing room if they take Mil, Orl, NY next week for a lot of momentum.

So I guess, as dire as things are, they aren't completely black yet.

Tomorrow's game is make or break though. The Cavs cannot afford to drop any games to non-playoff teams at home. Meaning the Bucks.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

They almost need to win the next 3 games. I think they'll still make it but they need Z back in a hurry. We were desperate for a third scorer and now without Z all teams key up on Lebron without having to worry about anybody else.

In actuality, if we were playing with good form we could even win out completely. But without Z and the implosion of chemistry it gonna be tight.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

> Liberal arts major in the house.


lol future. :biggrin: 

Its gonna be tough. Future's post makes me feel a bit more optimistic, as I had stopped looking at the schedule with this flurry of losses. Somebody, anybody, outside of Gooden and Bron has to show up in these games and we win at least 4 and possibly 5 of the remaining games. 

*Bron the last 5 games is putting up an incredible 30.6ppg 8.8rpg 6.0apg 2.4spg, that is really unbelievable. He's leading the team in scoring, assists, steals, fg%, 3pt%, AND rebounds during that stretch yet the team is still only 1-4.*

James will get the blame for this collapse, but someone else has to step up.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> *Bron the last 5 games is putting up an incredible 30.6ppg 8.8rpg 6.0apg 2.4spg, that is really unbelievable. He's leading the team in scoring, assists, steals, fg%, 3pt%, AND rebounds during that stretch yet the team is still only 1-4.*
> .


You might hold onto those numbers. They could prove somewhat useful this summer when the trolls start rolling through if the Cavs do muck this up.

The key thing for the Cavs to realize, is that it is still in their hands to make the playoffs. What NJ and Philly do doesn't have to matter if they take care of business. All of the remaining teams are teams that Cleveland has beaten before and could do again if they got it together.


----------



## phipsiboy (Apr 3, 2005)

i think today will be quite telling as to how the cavs will finish up. with new jersey hosting boston and the cavs hosting the bucks. i truly feel that today is a must win for the cavs and the cavs need the celtics to beat new jersey, if both of those don't happen i see it very unlikely that the cavs will make the playoffs.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

NJ killing Boston.....Carter dropped 24 on them in the 1st qtr alone. Nets aren't gonna fall off, we're gonna have to win the majority of our games if we want any chance of making it.


----------



## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

You're also assuming that Philly finishes 3-4. If they finish 4-3, that puts all three teams at 41-41... and I think the Cavs lose on the tie-breaker with both NJ and Philly... leaving the Cavs out of the playoffs.

I'm not being a pessimist, but obviously NJ is hot, and Philly has been playing better lately than Clev.....

Clev really needs to suck it up here.... especially Z and LeBron and either JMac or Snow to run the show. Heck, maybe Malone should just go ahead and play LeBron at the PG with Ira and Sasha, Drew and Z.... I'm worried tho. Clev really needs to come out with some fire tonight vs the Bucks. Milw is out of it, and on the road, nothing to win for. Now watch Redd just freakin' go off for 35 pts hitting 7 of 9 3 pointers.......... :curse:


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm not even really looking at New Jersey today. I figured they would win one of the Boston games. Obviously the one at home. But let's keep an eye on Philly.
They are at Washington tonight. That's one of the games I have them losing. I also have them losing against Boston. That could be the make or break game, since it is at Philly. And my worry about the Mia game is if the Heat aren't going to play Shaq and are just going to rest their team for the playoffs.

Let's be realistic here though. If this was the begining of the season and the Cavs had the same 7 game stretch, the expectation would be 6-1 possibly 7-0. These are all teams they can beat. Granted losing Z hurts that a little bit. But not much. The Cavs CAN run the table if they get their act together.

I think my 3-4 is the worst case scenario. Or I hope. This is a team that closed out last year losing 10 of 11. But they had good effort last night, so maybe it is turning around. You have that effort in the last of these 7 games and you will win 5 of these games at least.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Looks like to be all clear we need to win out at home and maybe steal one on the road. Cross our fingers; it's gonna be tight


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^^ No doubt, we really need this Orlando game on Monday. 

I still can't believe Philly beat Washington on the road WITHOUT AI


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> ^^ No doubt, we really need this Orlando game on Monday.
> 
> I still can't believe Philly beat Washington on the road WITHOUT AI



Yeah. I hadn't factored into my figures Washington outright tanking it. This helps out the Cavs if it's true, somewhat, in that I had penciled the Washington game in as a loss. But if the Cavs can win that, even if New Jersey and Philly both win their washington game, then it's good for the Cavs.

Winning at Orlando on Monday was not a game I had given to the Cavs either, so if they can win that it could be huge.

Again. With the exception of the Detroit game, there is no reason the Cavs can't run the table with the team they have, if they one guy beyond Gooden and Lebron gets hot and the team continues to work hard.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The thing that might benefit us is that McInnis must be angling for a contract now. The way his career has spiraled down this year: he really needs to finish strong even to get a minimum deal. No one wants anyone labeled a cacner on three different teams.

Hard to swallow but without Z this season might depend on McInnis playing like last year


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I had a few thoughts.

1) I wonder if we're better off having Philly or NJ win their showdown this weekend? If NJ wins then then we have both teams breathing down our neck for seeds with the tie-breaker. Whereas if Philly won, NJ would have a much more difficult time catching us and we would have a really good chance of at least getting the 8 seed. Then again looking at Philly's schedule, they could easily lose their next 3 games and the NJ game could put them away. 

2) If we keep winning catching Washington for the 6 seed could be a possibility, they still have:
CHI = possible loss
CLE = possible loss
CHA = win
@NJ = possible loss
@NY = win

If they lose 3 of those 5 games, and we win 4 of 5 games left (NY, BOS, 2 out of @DET, @WAS, @TOR road games), we finish 44-38, they finish 44-38, we take the 6 seed. I don't think that's farfetched at all, we are a good home team and would really only need to pick up 1 quality road win against either WAS/DET.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Getting Boston in the first round as opposed to Miami or Detroit would be great.

I still haven't decided who we need to win out of New Jersey and Philly. But I am going to root for Philly to win, because I want them to make it with the Cavs. And I do think they'll win against Boston and Miami, for some reason. I think stacking up losses on New Jersey is going to be the thing to root for.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^^^ I would like to see AI in the playoffs also, he plays so hard every night he deserves it.

Philly just dropped a home game to Boston and with 3 tough games coming up, they could slide. I still don't see Philly coming up with anything less than 41 wins cause of the two cupcakes at the end of their schedule. The Cavs are gonna have to win a game on the road to ensure a playoff spot.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I think we get in with a .500 record for the year with 42 wins. To do that we need to hold home court against two easily beaten teams (Ny, Toronto). With a road win we may actually get a 7th seed. Cross our fingers


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If Chicago beats Washington tomorrow that pulls Washington down to Cleveland more. Same deal if New Jersey beats Indiana tomorrow. That would give both teams 36 losses to the Cavs 37. So theoretically the Cavs aren't out of the race for the 5th seed yet.

But they also could miss the playoffs still.

It would be insane if after everything the Cavs ended up back at 5.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Mixed news for the Cavs tonight. 

I was hoping Chicago could fight back from a slow start but they lost at Washington, while New Jersey (finally) lost at Indiana. We can thank Reggie Miller for that one cause the Nets had a 6pt lead with like a minute left and he connected on a 4pt play. 

It will be tough for NJ to pass us now :clap: 

4 Chicago 44 34 
5 Indiana 43 35 
6 Washington 43 35 
7 Cleveland 40 37 
8 Philadelphia 39 38 
-------------------------- 
New Jersey 38 40 

Considering NJ still plays Philly, that basically gives us a 3 game lead on NJ if they lose and 2 game lead on Philly if they lose (that game).


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It was good news for the Cavs, but bad news for my Bulls.

They played that game without Deng, Curry, Nocioni, and Chandler. And Othella Harrington was in foul trouble. It was at Washington.

And they still hung around all night, despite shooting horrible all night. That's one gritty *** team.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^^Yeah the Bulls impress me more and more each time I watch them, especially Hinrich. He doesn't back down from anybody, seems like he's in attack mode on both sides of the ball all game long. 

If the Cavs can make some upgrades this offseason, the Central Division is gonna be brutal next year, Detroit/Indiana/Chicago/Cleveland could all be very good. 

Just like the glory days of the 90's :cheers:


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Damn it the Bulls could have made this a great night for us. Looks like the best we can hope for is that 7th spot. It sucks we don't own any of these tiebreaker.

We really need to fight for the 7th. We have no chance against the Heat as Shaq just destroys Z and anybody else we throw at him and everyone remembers how Wade abused our best defender Snow.

A Detroit matchup could be interesting. We'll still lose but I think we can take detroit to 6 or 7. For some reason we tend to play them well. I think Gooden and AV match up well athletically against the Wallaces and Lebron's brute strength tends to wear down Prince more then some guys. Detroit has the big edge in the backcourt so I don't expect an upset but could get very interesting


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yeah, if it it's a choice between Miami and Detroit, I'd rather play Detroit. Shaq is on a mission in the playoffs this year. I don't want anything to do with that.

The Pistons aren't perfect. If James played out of his mind, that's something that could swing a series the Cavs way. I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that Lebron went off in the first round. I really want to see him in the playoffs. When he can zone in on an opponent. And he'd have offdays to sharpen his jumper.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I shouldn't have to point out the fact that we are talking about choosing playoff opponents, when when this thread was created things were looking dim.

Still not out of the woods yet, but if the Cavs make the playoffs, there are going to be some very depressed Lebron haters, who wrote the script a little too soon.

I think James has quietly played his way back into the MVP discussion. Not to win it, but he should be in the discussion if Cleveland makes it. He and Gooden have been the only things stemming a complete collapse.


----------



## DJRaz (Aug 20, 2003)

so i can't decide if us guys think the same so we come here or think the same because we come here. cuz i'm thinking the same thing right now.

between miami and detroit i want detroit. short of shaq going down we can't beat miami. we don't match up right and we just completely collapse against shaq. always have. diop never grew into the baby shaq.

detroit is my pick to win the east, but their achilles heal is king james. the cavs seem to take care of business against detroit and could just be the big upset of the playoffs everyone thinks will be in the west. and of course you could get into the off the court stuff with larry brown, you could get into the proximity and similar images as cities, you could get into the matchups on paper that actually bring the cavs pretty even... but i think however you play it you have to acknowledge that if the self-annointed king james is gonna move 1 step closer to his true throne why not against the champs? why not against brown? why not now, has he shown any other traditional timing? why not against the lebron haters who say as freakish as he is no way he could beat the team that 'plays the game the right way'? 

ok ok i'll calm down. the pistons could dismantle us. but after a wild two years and the continual astounding progression of the lebron james story for the first time i think us cleveland fans are honestly saying "why not?"

and of course, after you bust that cherry anything is possible. 

and this is alot of homerism. cavs haven't even been there much less won anything. i respect the champs and i gotta say we'll see an early ECF when the pistons meet the heat in the 2nd round.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I share you guys optimism, but the Cavs are gonna have a ROUGH time beating Detroit in a 7 game series. They know how to put the clamps down defensively late in games and execute calmly/smoothly. 

Future knows what i'm talking about, their little combeback against the Bulls the other day was a perfect example. Of course between them and Miami, it's a no-brainer. 

Might as well throw James right into the fire. Bring on the world champs! 

P.S. -> Future is right, many of the haters will be very disappointed. You could tell they were just waiting to pounce, there were threads being made WHILE the Cavs were still in the playoffs.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

^ I don't think we're beating Detroit either. I believe we can actually take atleast 2 games from them tough. Against Miami I would be afraid of a sweep.

Screw the haters: Lebron's a legitimate MVP candidate in my book: right behind Duncan, Nash, and Shaq. He's had by far the best finish (hope he keeps it up) compared to Kobe or Tmac


----------



## DJRaz (Aug 20, 2003)

i don't fear a sweep from anyone, but shaq has the best shot against us. 

the teams i think we would beat in a series: wizards, bulls
the teams i think we might beat in a series: celtics, sixers
the teams i think we can't beat in a series: heat, pacers, pistons*

* see major first round upset because james plays great against the champs


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

NJ is licking their chops with the Cavs and Philly possibly losing tonight. 

So much for worrying about matchups, with 3 road games left Cavs will have to fight just to get in the playoffs now.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think things are going according to plan if Philly loses tonight.

I really think Philly is going to lose out.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

damn tied game deep in the fourth. Miami needs to win this one bad. Come on Diesel!!!


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Damn it Wade, I thought he was gonna hit that shot. 

Come on Miami.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

You know. Truthfully. If Philly wins this, they flat out deserve to be in the playoffs. Look at that team, and tell me it's not better than what the Cavs have.

The Cavs should have done everything in their power to get Igdoula. He is Scottie Pippen pt. 2. Swing and a miss by Paxson.

And if Korver isn't a Cav next year, I don't know what. That kid can flat out ball.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Philly wins, Cavs fall to 8th.

Philly deserves it, they are playing with a sense of desperation that the Cavs just don't seem to understand.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Ugghh what a terrible night. We don't deserve to make the playoffs.

We're going to have to win one on the road against either Washington (back to back) or Detroit on national TV. Knowing how we play on national TV and on the road. It ain't looking good. Dammit we should have one this one


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Philly wins, Cavs fall to 8th.
> 
> Philly deserves it, they are playing with a sense of desperation that the Cavs just don't seem to understand.


You know if the Cavs had their lottery pick, how much less this would hurt. haha. Damnit Paxson.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I wouldn't be surprised at all if we get blown out in both of those games. 

This whole team depends on James, he put up 27/18/7 but he shoots 7-25 and no one can pick up the slack.

We're a 1 man show, with the 1 man being a 2nd year 20 year old carrying the weight of a franchise. Those type of squads don't make it to the playoffs. 

James will have to put up some truly monster numbers if we are gonna win these road games.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

New Jersey has this:
Apr 15 @TOR
Apr 17 PHI
Apr 19 WAS
Apr 20 @BOS

Time to start actively rooting against New Jersey to bury themselves. If you have any good hexes to put on VC, now is the time to do it.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I was just looking at their schedule, those are 4 tough games in reality. Toronto will be up to play against Vince, Philly and Washington could both steal a game, and at Boston won't be an easy win either. 

If Cleveland could have won this damn game against the Knicks we would have been a virtual lock. So frustrating. 

By the way look at Telfair's speed in the TNT game, pairing him and James in an uptempo system 3 or 4 years down the line would have been nasty. I hate Paxson.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

If we were going to miss the playoffs I would have been OK getting a lottery pick becuase we all knew going into this year that we weren't a real contender. with the lottery pick, we could have used aonther pick or Sasha then to trade up to get Williams or Felton. But no we needed Jiri freakin Welsh. I still think Luke will be a good player but losing out on Felton or Williams would be brutal


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

For once the TNT crew got it right; when you lose to the vacationing Knicks, at home no less, and show no defensive intensity or pride despite being less than a couple games from being a lotto team, you know you're just not good. This seems to be a combination of bad management affecting the coaching affecting the players. And LeBron is clearly running out of steam right now, he's doing too much and playing *far* too many minutes.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

This is how you back into the playoffs. Old school style.
If this team makes the playoffs it will be against the will of several players on the roster, who clearly want an early vacation.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Damn it only up by 1 now. With Detroit, Boston, and Toronto. This doesnt look good. Detroit has nothing to play for so hopefully they won't 't come out smoking


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^^Every team has something to play for because of the Lebron factor. He draws big crowds and you can be sure Hamilton/Prince will come at him hard. 

If we end up missing the playoffs by 1 game like last year, or even worse finishing under .500, it will be terribly disappointing.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

God McInnis after teasing us those two games against weak competition has disappeared. Arenas not only torched him but he couldn't add anything. I hate to stick one player with fault but he's definitely the player of deserving most blame if we miss the postseason


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Who would've thought at the beginning of the season that 42 wins might not be enough to make the playoffs in the East? Even worse it's shaping up that we will miss the playoffs two years in a row by 1 game, with a record this year that would have easily gotten us in last season. 

It seems we're in the awful position of having a good enough team to barely make/miss the playoffs, but not bad enough to get a high draft pick or good enough to really compete. 

Boy this offseason is big.


----------



## Spudd (Jun 20, 2004)

Just a thought, after vc came out and said how he didnt try in toronto, how hard may some raptors players play in the last game against the cavs if it decides carters fate to make the playoffs


----------



## Vladman27 (Mar 20, 2005)

As a NETS fan, I have that same worry about the last game in Toronto. I think any NBATEAM is too professional to sink a game just to hurt a former player's chances. It seems like that would be remarkably petty. 

As much as I hate Detroit, I have to hand it to Larry Brown for playing his starters today saying it wouldn't be fair to Philly or NJ if he didn't. I would expect the same of Toronto.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Just like it would be crazy to imagine a player would so unprofessional as to tank on a team that gave him max contract?

I do agree that I doubt they would but i bet the thought would go through their heads


----------



## Vladman27 (Mar 20, 2005)

I don't think he "tanked." Do I think he didn't give 100% after 5 seasons where he was made to carry the load every night and be a leader? Yeah, there were games he did. It's unfortunate that a lot of players do that, though...hell, Mourning didn't even REPORT to the team that would be paying his salary, and i dont think its fair to say VC's the only one. He was just honest about it toward the end. 

If you look at a lot of the players who demand trades, and players on bad teams, they play below their potential. That said, almost 16 ppg is NOTHING to sneeze at. VC was the ONLY option in Toronto and got much fewer open looks. Now he's playing with the best point guard in the NBA and that's helping his numbers a lot. 

Even if Tor somehow wanted to "get back" at Carter, they would not only hurt dozens of other professionals on the Nets, but they would reduce any credibility they had as an NBA team. Two wrongs don't make a right.


----------



## Vladman27 (Mar 20, 2005)

P.S If were a Cavs fan, I'd want to get into the playoffs because my team was playing well, not because an opposing team subconsciously decided to tank their last game for VC and draft picks.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Vladman27 said:


> P.S If were a Cavs fan, I'd want to get into the playoffs because my team was playing well, not because an opposing team subconsciously decided to tank their last game for VC and draft picks.


At this point, with no lottery pick, no one really cares HOW they get into the playoffs, so long as they do. There's no benefit to missing the playoffs. Honor or otherwise.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

It's irrelevant anyways, the Nets control their own destiny. Win out and the Raptors tanking makes no difference.


----------

