# Shandon Is the worst starter in the History of the Knicks



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

Yes, it is a FACT. Not only has he sucked ALL YEAR, but hes rewarded by starting in the playoffs. Hes had like 5 good games all year, out of 82. He sucks at every part of the game, and SOMEHOW, he has a giant contract. somehow, Lenny sees hima s a good defender. Kidd and Kittles both went 6-11, i dont see how shandon changed anything there.

shandons stat line-
FORTY MINUTES, 3-15 shooting, 5 fouls, 2 boards,3 assists, 2 steals, 2 turnovers. 

Penny was off shooting, but nearly had a triple double.Why is he not starting? Id give shandons minutes to ANYBODY. DerMarr should play for him. well..........................until game 3, where shandon plays another 40 minutes.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i told you i told you i told you...shandon should not be in the NBA...he cant shoot. has no basketball IQ and isnt even good defensively....Why he is starting is beyond me..Hes #$%^^ horrible..

Thank you Scott layden,for that piece of garbage you forgot to throw out


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Yeah, Shandon is infinitely worse than Felton Spencer. You know, that guy who started when Camby went down two years ago? Wait, you don't remember? You mean Knick fans have short term memory? Hmm. I don't recall people complaining when Shandon was putting up 20 points in Houston's absense. Then again, that was PRE-MARBURY. Maybe the "superstar" should learn how to utilize his teammates strengths and weaknesses.

Besides, everybody knows Howard Eisley was the "worst starter in the history of sports".

Shandon Anderson > Jason Collins.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

You know, it's funny, people are dogging Anderson as a starter, but he was more effective this year as a starter than he was off the bench.

Shandon as starter (37 games)
11.3 ppg
3.3 rpg
2.1 apg
1.2 spg
0.3 bpg
.438 fg%
.304 3pt%
.766 ft%
32.9 mpg

Shandon off bench (43 games)
5.0 ppg
2.3 rpg
1.0 apg
0.6 spg
0.2 bpg
.393 fg%
.245 3pt%
.761 ft%
17.6 mpg

In wins Anderson scored 7.8 ppg and shot .424. In losses Anderson scored 8.1 ppg and shot .421. For the most part he is consistent, and can't truly be blamed for the losing of the team. He certainly isn't any worse than Penny, who usually gets a free pass from the critics.

In fact I notice that Marbury, Penny, KT, TT, and Nazr are all noticeably worse in losses than they are in wins.

Marbury plays more mpg in losses than in wins, but scores less, gets fewer assists, and shoots 90 points worse from the field. In wiins he has a .484 FG% and a .453 3pt%. In losses he has a .394 FG% and a .217 3pt%. All the other guys shoot significantly worse in losses. I'd submit it but I'm in a rush. Maybe later.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Shandon Anderson is a strange player for sure. Everytime I watch him play, I appreciate Stockton and Malone even more (not that I didn't appreciate them before). Anderson is no doubt a scrub and a walking TO, but he is the best we have right now. 

I wish he would morph into his older brother Willie Anderson, as we could use some consistent perimeter shooting.

This series is over if Tim can't come back and play and we already know Houston isn't.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Anderson not better than Penny? Penny had an off game and STILL almost had a trip...lets see here:

-Anderson is not a better passer than Penny.
-Anderson is not a better shooter than Penny.
-Anderson can't rebound like Penny.
-Anderson's D isn't at good at Pennys.

This leads me to believe that Shandon is hot garbage.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> He certainly isn't any worse than Penny, who usually gets a free pass from the critics



can you get any #$%^ dumber????? You are pathetic...

stop embarrassing yourself.....

Shandon Anderson

3-15 shooting,2 reb,2 assists,9 points..But he did lead the team in fouls..

penny shot poorly as well,but he did have 7 boards and 10 assists...

Shandon is as bad as you are clueless


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> penny shot poorly as well,but he did have 7 boards and 10 assists...


I'm not stupid enough to think that one game in a season means something. Tony "53" Delk was very available at the trade deadline. Penny had 10 assists. Good for him. It's about time. He only averaged FEWER assists than Anderson this season. I didn't even look at the box score for the game, because hey, since when do stats in 20 point blowouts matter?

Speaking of assists, you DO know that only 3 players on the team recorded assists, right? They would be Marbury (7), Penny (10), and Shandon (3). Everyone else had 0. But I guess that's inconsequential.



> Anderson's D isn't at good at Pennys.


Based on what again? Anderson is the only other player on the team after Marbury that can force a turnover and run. Speaking of run, that's something Penny doesn't do on offense either.



> Anderson is not a better shooter than Penny.


I found this to be interesting. Just because Penny takes more perimeter shots, does not make him a better perimeter shooter. Anderson is a career 32% 3pt shooter, and he shot 37% last year from that range. Penny is also a career 32% shooter, and he shot 36% with the Knicks this year in only 44 attempts. I don't see how one could make an arguement that Penny is so superior at shooting, the only difference is Penny seems more comfortable taking bad shots than Anderson is. Anderson is looking to drive and shoots as a last resort. Penny doesn't look to drive, he either looks to shoot a set shot or looks to post up for a jumper. Quantity is not the same thing as quality.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Penny is a shell of his former self,but its 10 x the player Shandon is today....

Ild love to argue with you,but once you get a hard on for ex Utah players there is nothing worth discussing with you


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> You know, it's funny, people are dogging Anderson as a starter, but he was more effective this year as a starter than he was off the bench.


This is the same inane logic that had Eisley starting over Ward. These freaking scrubs can't perform off the bench, where they belong, so one has to start them or get nothing from them. How infuriatingly stupid. It's one thing when there was no alternative, like when Shandon started in Houston's absense pre- Moochie, Hardaway, and Dermarr, but that's history now. And Ward should never have had to split time with Eisley.

And of course Shandons production went up when he started, look at his minutes, they nearly doubled!!!


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> And of course Shandons production went up when he started, look at his minutes, they nearly doubled!!!


Oak please refrain from stating the obvious


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Haha ... Was it worth it now that you look back? All those trades specifically set out to improve the team on a short term basis? Losing to the Knicks in the first round.. Giving up draft picks and young talent and getting a payroll thats through the roof in return? I would have been much happier to see the Knicks not have done any of those trades, and simply just built for the future.. Saved some draft picks.. Maybe have a good team next year, be realistic it's not like the Knicks are gonna come back from 2-0 down and beat New Jersey..


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> This is the same inane logic that had Eisley starting over Ward. These freaking scrubs can't perform off the bench, where they belong, so one has to start them or get nothing from them.


Eh, no. Eisley started over Ward because they wanted Ward to be rested for the 4th quarter. Eisley played 1st and 3rd, Ward played 2nd and 4th. Ward was always considered the best PG on the Knicks, but knee problems would limit him if he logged too much time. Since you weren't here, I'll remind you that my argument was always Howard Eisley > Frank "turnover every 5 minutes" Williams. I never disputed Ward being better.



> And of course Shandons production went up when he started, look at his minutes, they nearly doubled!!!


Try looking at the shooting percentages, are those dictated by minutes? Of course, Shandon did come off the bench when he started the season cold, which hurts those numbers a bit.



> Oak please refrain from stating the obvious


Please refrain from jumping on a bandwagon you obviously didn't read up on. Check the shooting percentages.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Shandon stinks..plain and simple


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Shandon stinks..plain and simple


And so does DJ... plain and simple.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

You should be happy. If DJ broke out in the playoffs some team would overpay for him in free agency and give him a bigger role than 12th man. If DJ could start for a "playoff" team and impress, all the more reason for a team like Charlotte to offer him a full-time starting job.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> And so does DJ... plain and simple.


I honestly have no idea what your allegance to Shandon is...He is flat out killing us....He has no ofensive game whatsoever...No post up game,no outside game and no medium game...

Once again DJ may not be the answer,but he is far more talented offensively than Anderson...

Why is it everyone is all over Anderson and you continue to support him..You did it with Eisly too...It is so odd...

I really dont think you watch the games


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Eh, no. Eisley started over Ward because they wanted Ward to be rested for the 4th quarter. Eisley played 1st and 3rd, Ward played 2nd and 4th. Ward was always considered the best PG on the Knicks, but knee problems would limit him if he logged too much time.


It's true I wasn't here to know your position on Eisley starting, but honestly, knowing you as I do now, I'm quite confident if you spoke on the matter it was to support the decision.

And I believe you are wrong on the justification. If memory serves me correctly they began the season with Ward starting, but Eisely's contributions were so lame they switched things around.

I don't know how to look up who started, but here are Eisley's game by game stats:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/howard_eisley/game_by_game_stats.html

Note that in November, at season's beginnig, he only flirted with a few 20 min games, with most well below. He was putting up junk. That's when they decided to start him. Gotta love Chaney - the worse they play the more PT you give him. 

And the Worse Chaney's record the more extensions they gave him. What a system...



> Since you weren't here, I'll remind you that my argument was always Howard Eisley > Frank "turnover every 5 minutes" Williams. I never disputed Ward being better.


I do remember that, that is exactly when I arrived. I think my first post spoke to that issue. You were wrong about that too. :grinning: 

Frank did/does have upside, Eisley has none. Franks turnovers would go down in time with PT, Eisley would never get better. Frank brough motion and fluidity to the offense, Eisley ran it through concrete. When this was discussed it was pre-Marbury, and Frank was the "future" of this club you so often refer to, Eisley was it's infamously sad past. 

If you wanted to argue that Frank wasn't ready to assume Wards PT that would have had some arguable merit, but to argue he wasn't worthy of assuming Eisley's PT was not only wrongheaded, but it was proven misguided by Chaney (your boy), IT and Wilken's.




> Try looking at the shooting percentages, are those dictated by minutes?


Is this your circular logic again? Weren't YOU the one suggesting he played better by starting and/or getting more minutes? Now you challenge that assumption? What are we discussing then?

Look, he's problematic, he doesn't fit well in his proper role, off the bench, because he's inefficient there, and he's not worthy of starting. It's a double whammy.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Once again DJ may not be the answer,but he is far more talented offensively than Anderson...


You're really gonna have to go into detail on this one. Your own personal emotions do not make DJ a better player than he really is, nor do they make Shandon worse.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> You're really gonna have to go into detail on this one. Your own personal emotions do not make DJ a better player than he really is, nor do they make Shandon worse.


Are you watching these games???Have you seen Shandons statline,which is far better than he has played????

Are you that clueless???You are the biggest hypocrite on this board..Its OK for Barkley or YOU to suggest that Baker play much more as Naz has not been effective and we need to establish a post presence..Is it guaranteed that by playing Baker we will turn it around???Of course not,but its worth a try and its called an adjustment....

Do I bring up your personal emotions????No,I agree its worth a shot....

Its really simple Rashidi..Anderson is KILLING us..He is the wrong guy against the NETS..Everyone sees it but you..look at his boxscore..watch a game...its not emotional..its common sense


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Its really simple Rashidi..Anderson is KILLING us..He is the wrong guy against the NETS..Everyone sees it but you..look at his boxscore..watch a game...its not emotional..its common sense


Maybe YOU should watch a box score or watch a game. What the hell is DJ going to do defensively other than get burned worse than Anderson is? What is DJ going to do, start shooting 67% instead of his usual 37%? If Anderson is the wrong person, then DJ certainly is far from the right person, considering the similarities in their playstyles and abilities. You still haven't expalined why DJ would make a "better" scorer than Anderson, you just said that Anderson sucks.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

If DJ shot 37% it would be a 15% increase from what Andersen has been giving us.

Normally Andersen isn't that bad,but this series he has been a total moron and shouldn't be starting.

I don't understand how one guy can collapse against the staggering defense of Kerry Kittles, but whatever.



Currently he is shooting 22% for the series. His turnovers always seem to come on costly possessions, his help defense is non-existant, for a guy who slashes he hasn't got to the line.


Also whoever said, stop blaming marbury for being a ball hog. Have you not noticed the look where he'll dish out for a play like 3 or 4 times and only one of those times ends up in a score?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> You still haven't expalined why DJ would make a "better" scorer than Anderson, you just said that Anderson sucks.


DUDE,Anderson scored ZERO last night!!!!Do i have to answer why DJ is a better scoring option???

Unless I am overlooking something,I dont think its possible to score less than ZERO...GET IT?????????????

Rashidi,on every NYC sports talk show it was brought up over and over that there has never been a worse playoff performance than Shandon Anderson is having..Think about that..The worst playoff performance EVER..Its so brutal,I actually feel bad for him..


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Unless I am overlooking something,I dont think its possible to score less than ZERO...GET IT?????????????


Again, you have yet to state why DJ would do better. It's not possible to score less than zero, but it is possible to score zero AND give up more points on defense AND score zero on more shots attempted. Guess which DJ would be likely to do.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not stupid enough to think that one game in a season means something. Tony "53" Delk was very available at the trade deadline. Penny had 10 assists. Good for him. It's about time. He only averaged FEWER assists than Anderson this season. I didn't even look at the box score for the game, because hey, since when do stats in 20 point blowouts matter?
> ...


((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / MIN

Shandon:
((635 + 222 + 122 + 68 + 17) - ((564 - 238) + (161 - 123) + 118)) / 1974 = .295

Anfernee (all season):
((699 + 287 + 176 + 70 + 20) - ((679 - 279) + (138 - 111) + 107)) / 2095 = .343

Anfernee (with Knicks):
((403 + 189 + 79 + 42 + 12) - ((408 - 159) + (89 - 69) + 65)) / 1219 = .321

and for ****s and giggles...

Allan:
((924 + 121 + 99 + 38 + 2) - ((781 - 340) + (172 - 157) + 102)) / 1799 = .348

Stephon (all season):
((1639 + 263 + 719 + 129 + 9) - ((1386 - 598) + (436 - 356) + 249)) / 3254 = .504

Stephon (with Knicks):
((931 + 146 + 438 + 65 + 4) - ((780 - 336) + (251 - 209) + 152)) / 1839 = .514

DerMarr:
((113 + 39 + 11 + 8 + 7) - ((97 + 36) + (31 - 28) + 16)) / 287 = .341

Frank:
((247 + 71 + 155 + 32 + 8) - ((208 - 80) + (54 - 45) + 63)) / 714 = .438

Moochie (all season):
((234 + 65 + 121 + 44 + 5) - ((217 - 80) + (71 - 54) + 64)) / 847 = .296

Moochie (with Knicks):
((154 + 35 + 73 + 28 + 3) - ((130 - 53) + (47 - 36) + 
35)) / 446 = .381

Just look how bad Shandon is...:hurl: :rocket: :soapbox: :upset:


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Maybe YOU should watch a box score or watch a game. What the hell is DJ going to do defensively other than get burned worse than Anderson is? What is DJ going to do, start shooting 67% instead of his usual 37%? If Anderson is the wrong person, then DJ certainly is far from the right person, considering the similarities in their playstyles and abilities. You still haven't expalined why DJ would make a "better" scorer than Anderson, you just said that Anderson sucks.


partly because dermarr is younger and about 10 times cheaper than shandon


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Again, you have yet to state why DJ would do better. It's not possible to score less than zero, but it is possible to score zero AND give up more points on defense AND score zero on more shots attempted. Guess which DJ would be likely to do.


He can do better if for no other reason,its impossible to do worse...

Only you,could defend a guy who doesnt score,turns the ball over and has no BB IQ...

Rashidi,its clear you are a basketball numnut....


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> He can do better if for no other reason,its impossible to do worse...


Haven't you seen those impossible is nothing commercials? 

DJ already DOES worse than Anderson. He is worse defensively and shoots a significantly lower percentage. This is the umpteenth time I've stated this, perhaps it will hit you this time. DJ is a scrub version of Shandon Anderson, which isn't saying much since Shandon is a scrub.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Haven't you seen those impossible is nothing commercials?
> ...


Once again, efficiency per minute

((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / MIN

Shandon:
((635 + 222 + 122 + 68 + 17) - ((564 - 238) + (161 - 123) + 118)) / 1974 = .295

Anfernee (all season):
((699 + 287 + 176 + 70 + 20) - ((679 - 279) + (138 - 111) + 107)) / 2095 = .343

Anfernee (with Knicks):
((403 + 189 + 79 + 42 + 12) - ((408 - 159) + (89 - 69) + 65)) / 1219 = .321

and for ****s and giggles...

Allan:
((924 + 121 + 99 + 38 + 2) - ((781 - 340) + (172 - 157) + 102)) / 1799 = .348

Stephon (all season):
((1639 + 263 + 719 + 129 + 9) - ((1386 - 598) + (436 - 356) + 249)) / 3254 = .504

Stephon (with Knicks):
((931 + 146 + 438 + 65 + 4) - ((780 - 336) + (251 - 209) + 152)) / 1839 = .514

DerMarr:
((113 + 39 + 11 + 8 + 7) - ((97 + 36) + (31 - 28) + 16)) / 287 = .341

Frank:
((247 + 71 + 155 + 32 + 8) - ((208 - 80) + (54 - 45) + 63)) / 714 = .438

Moochie (all season):
((234 + 65 + 121 + 44 + 5) - ((217 - 80) + (71 - 54) + 64)) / 847 = .296

Moochie (with Knicks):
((154 + 35 + 73 + 28 + 3) - ((130 - 53) + (47 - 36) +
35)) / 446 = .381

Just look how bad Shandon is... worse than any guard on the Knicks, even Moochie is better.


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## dork (Mar 21, 2004)

Wow, about 90 % of all the starters in the past 5 years could qualify for the worst ever starter. We got to face the facts, the knicks just suck.But seriously, Popeye JOnes is really ugly


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Haven't you seen those impossible is nothing commercials?
> ...



Emmm, explain how DJ shoots a significantly lower percentage than Anderson. I'm pretty sure DJ isn't shooting significantly below 22%. On the other hand, DJ is a better 3pt shooter and better rebounder and turns to ball over less (at least when it counts)


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Anyone else notice that when Shandon's minutes go down, the Knick's chances of winning go up? Seriously he was out there for 29 minutes and didn't even score. Crazy. And its not like his defense is stifling either, RJ+Kidd+K-Mart all had over 15 points a piece.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Okay Rashidi.. You are being very ignorant.. DJ is obviously not gonna be a miracle if he is played over Shandon but it'll make a difference.. Why you ask? Why not? The Knicks have one more chance.. Shandon has played horrible, just plain horrible.. Anyone would rather take their chances with DJ than have a person who starts a game and plays nearly 30 minutes without getting a single point..


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> But seriously, Popeye JOnes is really ugly


LMAO!! you are one funny $%^*&er

On another note,lokks like urwhatueati8god proves you wrong...again...

and i can only imagine what shandons numbers look likefor this series


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> I'm pretty sure DJ isn't shooting significantly below 22%.


If the Jersey backcourt can hold a 43% shooter to 22%, what makes you think a 37% shooter is going to fare any better?


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> If the Jersey backcourt can hold a 43% shooter to 22%, what makes you think a 37% shooter is going to fare any better?


Hold? The man held himself to that shooting. Stop praisng everything Layden loser...


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Hold? The man held himself to that shooting


The NEts are begging Shandon to shoot..Every time he throws up a scud,its an automatic fast break as most of his shots come off the rim (if he hits the rim)about 20 feet...

Lenny.please bench the guy so I hold out hope for next year..Otherwise,catch the next plane to florida,find a nice retirement home and watch the Knicks on TV next year


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