# Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?, Henderson waived



## The Future7

*Mavs get Keith Van Horn*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1998910

We lose Calvin Booth and Alan Henderson. Now we have a solid backup behind Dirk. I liked Henderson though


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## Petey

*Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

Link 



> The Milwaukee Bucks have enhanced their chances of re-signing Michael Redd by finding a taker for the contract of Keith Van Horn.
> 
> League sources tell ESPN.com that the Bucks beat the 3 p.m. ET Thursday trading deadline by agreeing to send Van Horn to Dallas for Calvin Booth, the expiring contract of Alan Henderson and minimal cash considerations.


-Petey


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## mff4l

*so we just traded hendersen and booth for keith van horn*

Mavericks trade forwards Allen Henderson and Calvin Booth to Milwaukee for forward Keith Van Horn. Details to come. 


whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. I don't like this deal at all. Dampier is out 2 to 3 weeks with a foot injury and now we done lost some of our defensive big men.

Hendersen was starting at center with booth backing him up. Now bradley is gonna have to start.

What (are) we gonna do with KVH? we got enough scoring already. 

________________________________
No masking please, Dre


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## mff4l

*Re: so we just traded hendersen and booth for keith van horn*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1998910

We lose Calvin Booth and Alan Henderson. Now we have a solid backup behind Dirk. I liked Henderson though


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## Dre

*Re: so we just traded hendersen and booth for keith van horn*

I really like this deal for us. A few days ago, I was thinking of possible tweener forwards we could acquire to spell Dirk, and I came to the conclusion that Van Horn would be a perfect pickup. He has a semblance of a post game, he can hit the 18 footer, he's a decent rebounder, I think he's the perfect fit to backup Dirk. And we didn't give all that much up. Henderson's been playing well for us, but he's not better than Van Horn. Calvin Booth is Calvin Booth, he hasn't given us much of anything.


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## Tristan

*I'm back!*

We got Van Horn exchanged for Henderson and Booth! Oh..and IM BACK!


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## Tristan

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

Crap I didnt see this thread so I made another one but ignore the last one i guess


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## Tristan

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

Um...does KVH have any defense at all?


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## mff4l

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

no KVY is one of the worst defenders in the league


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## mff4l

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

the point is not getting van horn. If damp was healthy then I could see maybe getting him. but right now we have NO BIG MEN. The only way I can see this working is if Nellie thinks that D.J (our african project big man) is now ready to make an impact. 

He always got something up his sleeve like this so I don't know. D.j did have 2 blocks last night and was activated before the game. I shoulda known something was up then. We can NEVER JUST NOT MAKE A TRADE. We always gotta do some(thing).

Hendersen has been a beast on the glass all year. 

Ranks #2 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(6.6) Ranks #19 in the NBA in Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(13.7) 

whenever he gets mins he kills. His defense is great. No he doesn't score alot but he was helping us on the interior. D.J better earn his paycheck.

____________________________________
No Masking Please, Dre


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## Dre

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

No, he's one of the slower defenders in the league.


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## The Future7

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

I never really liked Van Horn. He can give us some nice numbers coming of the bench though.
Possible lineup:

PG- Jason Terry
SG- Michael Finley
SF- Josh Howard
PF- Dirk Nowitzki
C- Erick Dampier 
Sixth man- Stackhouse
Bench-
Keith Van Horn
Marquis Daniels
Devin Harris 
Darrel Armstrong
DJ Mbenga


I hope DJ can play good. We will probably see tonight vs the Kings


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## DaMavsMan13

*Re: We got Van Horn!*

You actually like this trade. I can't see what the Mavs were thinking.


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## DaMavsMan13

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

I think this was a dumb move by the Mavericks. Just when we were starting to get some recognition for playing consistent defense, we pick up Keith Van Horn for 2 of our back-up players that play defense. We don't need anymore offense. Sorry, I'm just mad we lost Henderson for Van Horn.


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## Dre

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*



> the point is not getting van horn. If damp was healthy then I could see maybe getting him. but right now we have NO BIG MEN. The only way I can see this working is if Nellie thinks that D.J (our african project big man) is now ready to make an impact.
> 
> He always got something up his sleeve like this so I don't know. D.j did have 2 blocks last night and was activated before the game. I shoulda known something was up then. We can NEVER JUST NOT MAKE A TRADE. We always gotta do some sheeit.


I see your reasoning, but you have to look beyond Dampier's short absence. Today is the last day you can trade, so we can't say when Dampier gets back, we'll do it. Sure, this stretch right now will be rough for us in the post, but over the long haul it definately benefits us. We can't not make trades because of a 2-3 week injury in March when we plan to be playing into June.


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## Gambino

*Re: We got Van Horn!*

I do not like this trade one bit. It's basically Henderson for Van Horn. Wtf are we going to do with Van Horn??? Booth is irrelevant. I guess DJ is going to play more.


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## The Future7

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*

I see a possible 10 game winning streak coming. We wont even miss Dampier.
We face:

Kins
Suns
Hornets
Clippers
Lakers
Rockets 
Raptors
Lakers
Bucks
Twolves

These are our next ten games. Our only threat is Phoenix. But Knowing the Mavs we might lose a couple.


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## mff4l

*Re: Seeing Redd: Bucks deal Van Horn to Mavs -- ESPN*



_Dre_ said:


> I see your reasoning, but you have to look beyond Dampier's short absence. Today is the last day you can trade, so we can't say when Dampier gets back, we'll do it. Sure, this stretch right now will be rough for us in the post, but over the long haul it definately benefits us. We can't not make trades because of a 2-3 week injury in March when we plan to be playing into June.



yea i know. Maybe d.j is finally ready to get pt. That's the only way I can see this deal helping us because if we have to start dirk and kvh at the same time on the front line? we're doomed


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## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Wow, Dre picked this!

I'm not sure what to think of this, especially since Dampier is hurt. Does this mean time for our favourite DJ? I sure hope so

But it wouldn't be that bad, I mean *another* player to take some pressure off Dirk. 

Is it offical yet?


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## Tristan

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

double post


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## Tristan

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

This trade is plain and stupid...for one reason...Henderson. He was a perfect fit for our club, on a kinda run and style and defense. He did everythin we were missing on the defense side when Najera left.

Whats KVH going to do? Score...then what? Mavericks never learn and they just cant get off the trades for atleast one friggin season. They just have to make a trade every season.

This is like adding a poor mans version of Walker. Chemistry is screwed and we might have to start from the scratch and i predict a cancer...

I dont want the mavs to be called the soft white boys anymore...this is bull****


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## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Link 


> The Mavericks acquired forward Keith Van Horn just hours before the NBA trading deadline on Thursday afternoon.
> 
> Van Horn, 6-10 and 245 pounds, was acquired for forwards Alan Henderson and Calvin Booth along with cash considerations.
> 
> The Mavericks had been looking for an offensive-minded forward to take the pressure off when Dirk Nowitzki was not in the game.
> 
> Van Horn, an eight-year veteran, was averaging 10.4 points for the Bucks.
> 
> "Keith's versatility, experience and shooting ability were the factors for us to make this decision," Mavericks president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said.
> 
> Drafted by the New Jersey Nets out of Utah in 1997, Van Horn has averaged more than 10 points every season in the NBA.
> 
> Besides the Nets and Bucks, Van Horn has also played for Philadelphia and the New York Knicks.
> 
> Van Horn, known primarily as an offensive player, has averaged 7.3 rebounds for his career.


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## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Tristan said:


> This trade is plain and stupid...for one reason...Henderson. He was a perfect fit for our club, on a kinda run and style and defense. He did everythin we were missing on the defense side when Najera left.
> 
> Whats KVH going to do? Score...then what? Mavericks never learn and they just cant get off the trades for atleast one friggin season. They just have to make a trade every season.
> 
> This is like adding a poor mans version of Walker. Chemistry is screwed and we might have to start from the scratch and i predict a cancer...
> 
> I dont want the mavs to be called the soft white boys anymore...this is bull****



The knicks did something dumb and basically handed mohammed to the spurs for nothing which makes this kvh deal even dumber. we gave up 2 big men for nothing. Hendersen actually defends duncan pretty well and now we've gone from having alot of big men to having virtually a thin front line. I KNOW DIRK isn't happy. I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a trade soon.

First we don't resign his best friend in nash and then when we start winning we trade key role players who can help us in the playoffs while KVH won't play any d and just will jack up stupid shots.


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## GNG

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Van Horn for garbage?

Sounds like a good deal to me.


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## Tristan

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> The knicks did something dumb and basically handed mohammed to the spurs for nothing which makes this kvh deal even dumber. we gave up 2 big men for nothing. Hendersen actually defends duncan pretty well and now we've gone from having alot of big men to having virtually a thin front line. I KNOW DIRK isn't happy. I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a trade soon.
> 
> First we don't resign his best friend in nash and then when we start winning we trade key role players who can help us in the playoffs while KVH won't play any d and just will jack up stupid shots.


That reminds me? Who defends duncan now? Or KG? I know Dirk isnt that bad at guarding both of those two players anymore since he's become a good defender...but Dirk will get in foul trouble. What the hell were they seriously thinking? Dampier is too slow to guard both of em...so who now? they better get somethin on their sleeves or im gonna start burning some jerseys...

sorry if i sounded like im psycho... i just think its a stupid trade since we have gotten better and out chemistry just got together.


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## Dre

*My final analysis*

The deal for Keith Van Horn gives us two things that we need: Scoring off the bench from the 4, and a glimpse of our future in DJ Mbenga. Many Mavericks fans don't like the prospect of dealing Alan Henderson, the team "dirty worker", the man who took over Eduardo Najera's spot on our roster. Henderson played good ball for us, especially on the boards, but we are killing two birds with one stone here: We get to groom DJ as well as attain a backup to Dirk with a skillset similar to his. 

MBenga has showed promise as a good shotblocker at the 5, but the thing that could possibly stunt his growth oncourt is playing time. This season, he's played limited minutes, mostly during garbage time. When he does get on the court, he's raw, but shows a knack for the blocked shot. The only way to make that raw talent a skill is to have him oncourt enough that he can develop. I'm eager to see what he does with a possible 10-15 minutes a game, taking Henderson's slot. 

Other than getting on the court, getting in the weight room should be his other concern. He's listed at 220, not exactly solid for a 7 footer. That is a possible stumbling block, but if he gets on the court, and adjusts to the American game, it will be a Chris Bosh situation (not at all comparing them), where he shows he can be a talented player, but needs to work on his body during the summer. I would rather have MBenga on the court than Hendersen truthfully, because we have more invested in him. Hendersen was a surprise for us this year, playing hard on the glass, and respectable interior defense as well. However, I think we overrated his importance towards the latter part of his tenure. I would rather develop Mbenga, who I think with time will produce ala Henderson this year, then play Henderson himself. People are forgetting, despite all the jokes made about him, that we still have Shawn Bradley. I think it's at least comparable to Henderson to have Mbenga and Bradley split minutes, if Mbenga is more frustrating than anticipated. 

The other thing this trade brings is a talented Power Forward, who's talents are similar to Dirk's. To the people who question why we need more scoring, etc: Would you rather have Dirk playing dog tired, or a player with a similar skillset playing some light minutes. I think Van Horn, a consistent 15 ppg player in his career, is at least good enough to get Dirk's "tired time", and have a player oncourt similar to himself playing until he feels fine. Van Horn can play the 3 and 4, like Dirk, he can shoot the 3 pointer, he has a serviceable post game, on the boards and scoring against smaller players, like Dirk. Van Horn is not as athletic, but he can get the job done while Dirk is on the bench. He's like a 3rd tier Dirk Nowitzki, and I'd rather have him on the court, %100 than a tired Dirk.

I really like this deal for us. By letting Henderson go, we allow Mbenga to be more than a victory cigar, and we bring in a quality player at the 4 position. I like Henderson, and I appreciate the time he played for us, but I think we're somewhat overrating his overrall impact. I think Bradley, Mbenga, and Van Horn, all to split minutes at the 4 (and 5 for the two bigs) will more than fill Henderson's role.

And how much I mentioned Calvin Booth is comparable to how much he contributed to the team.


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## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

I'm agreeing with Tristan, we may look better on paper but that doesn't mean everything

Who will guard Amare, KG, Brand etc etc while Dampier is either injured, or out. Usually it was Dampier, who I saw did a great job on Jermaine O'Neal. We may score an extra 6 points, but they also may score an extra 8 points.

Dissapointing, what happened to the rumours of no trades? Not only did we lose our backup, we lost our backups backup (Booth). Our front line is looking extra thin now

Why Nellie, Why?


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## Tristan

*Re: My final analysis*



_Dre_ said:


> The deal for Keith Van Horn gives us two things that we need: Scoring off the bench from the 4, and a glimpse of our future in DJ Mbenga. Many Mavericks fans don't like the prospect of dealing Alan Henderson, the team "dirty worker", the man who took over Eduardo Najera's spot on our roster. Henderson played good ball for us, especially on the boards, but we are killing two birds with one stone here: We get to groom DJ as well as attain a backup to Dirk with a skillset similar to his.
> 
> MBenga has showed promise as a good shotblocker at the 5, but the thing that could possibly stunt his growth oncourt is playing time. This season, he's played limited minutes, mostly during garbage time. When he does get on the court, he's raw, but shows a knack for the blocked shot. The only way to make that raw talent a skill is to have him oncourt enough that he can develop. I'm eager to see what he does with a possible 10-15 minutes a game, taking Henderson's slot.
> 
> Other than getting on the court, getting in the weight room should be his other concern. He's listed at 220, not exactly solid for a 7 footer. That is a possible stumbling block, but if he gets on the court, and adjusts to the American game, it will be a Chris Bosh situation (not at all comparing them), where he shows he can be a talented player, but needs to work on his body during the summer. I would rather have MBenga on the court than Hendersen truthfully, because we have more invested in him. Hendersen was a surprise for us this year, playing hard on the glass, and respectable interior defense as well. However, I think we overrated his importance towards the latter part of his tenure. I would rather develop Mbenga, who I think with time will produce ala Henderson this year, then play Henderson himself. People are forgetting, despite all the jokes made about him, that we still have Shawn Bradley. I think it's at least comparable to Henderson to have Mbenga and Bradley split minutes, if Mbenga is more frustrating than anticipated.
> 
> The other thing this trade brings is a talented Power Forward, who's talents are similar to Dirk's. To the people who question why we need more scoring, etc: Would you rather have Dirk playing dog tired, or a player with a similar skillset playing some light minutes. I think Van Horn, a consistent 15 ppg player in his career, is at least good enough to get Dirk's "tired time", and have a player oncourt similar to himself playing until he feels fine. Van Horn can play the 3 and 4, like Dirk, he can shoot the 3 pointer, he has a serviceable post game, on the boards and scoring against smaller players, like Dirk. Van Horn is not as athletic, but he can get the job done while Dirk is on the bench. He's like a 3rd tier Dirk Nowitzki, and I'd rather have him on the court, %100 than a tired Dirk.
> 
> I really like this deal for us. By letting Henderson go, we allow Mbenga to be more than a victory cigar, and we bring in a quality player at the 4 position. I like Henderson, and I appreciate the time he played for us, but I think we're somewhat overrating his overrall impact. I think Bradley, Mbenga, and Van Horn, all to split minutes at the 4 (and 5 for the two bigs) will more than fill Henderson's role.
> 
> And how much I mentioned Calvin Booth is comparable to how much he contributed to the team.


Very good point but I dont think Hendersons impact was overrated. He was what we needed, a better version of Eddie. But DJ is a "project" player. Dallas is making a run for the championship this year. If we needed someone, we needed someone with a talent now not a player thats going to take time to develope. But very good point


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## Mavs41

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

This day should be banned from the Mavs doing anything. Once again saying nothing would happen to just do the opposite. This team for the first time ever had great parts for offense and defense. They were coming together and peaking at just the right time. No need for a trade just let the team play and get healthy.

But what hppanes? A shocker of a trade where the Mavs give up Allan Henderson and Calvin Booth for *KEITH VAN HORN!!!* One of the biggest busts in the NBA. A player that doesn't help this team out any and is a big downgrade. Once again the Mavs are the laughing stock of the NBA on the trade deadline day. The Mavs just can't resist change and do a trade just for the hell of it!!!

If this isn't bad enough this means Bradley's minutes will go up and means he will probably start since Damp is out.


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## AMR

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

If this is a bet on Mbenga, ok, but, although Van Horn is one of my favourite players, I'm not sure if the Mavericks are the right team for him. How will this team perform in the Playoffs?


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## Dre

*Re: My final analysis*



Tristan said:


> Very good point but I dont think Hendersons impact was overrated. He was what we needed, a better version of Eddie. But DJ is a "project" player. Dallas is making a run for the championship this year. If we needed someone, we needed someone with a talent now not a player thats going to take time to develope. But very good point


 Yes, DJ is a project, but Henderson was giving us 15-18 minutes a game. I think if we divy that 8 to DJ, 7 to Bradley, it won't be like we're depending on them that heavily if we put the right lineups around them.

That's all I was saying about "overrating" Henderson. I think it opened the door for Bradley and Mbenga, who could combine for respectable play, and we get Van Horn.


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## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

this trade was terrible. everyone on our current teams knew their roles. We are on a five game winning streak molly whopping teams and showed mad heart in every game crushing teams in the fourth quarter. now we have totally destroyed that chemistry. I don't know what to think at this point.


Even with Dirk off the floor the mavs have been fine scoring wise because our "D" has kept us in games. And the thing is we haven't been healthy all year. Guys like Daniels, Finley, stack, etc etc have all missed time which has led to us not scoring as much as we could have. 

Now daniels is back and we are finally getting healthy (cept damp and stack) and now we make a move for MORE scoring? 

Howard, Daniels, Terry, Harris, and Armstrong are all great to solid defenders on the perimeter.

But now with damp out bradley and d.j benga must protect the basket and I don't know if d.j is ready yet. We went from having a 4 headed center monster to basically 2 right now. 

If bradley doesn't play well this can spell disaster because nellie will put dirk at center and then we'd have someone like van horn playing pf (yikes) or howard playing out of position at 6 7 (no!) because he has a 7 2 wingspan. It works for the suns but marion is a lil stronger than howard is and howard would get in foul trouble. 

I don't know what we are doing right now. I really don't.


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## Gambino

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

I hope Nellie isn't the coach next season. He needs to go. He is involved in this trade no doubt. But we are trading Henderson for Van Horn. Booth is irrelevant.

However, ESPN 103.3 is saying that the Bucks really have no need for Henderson and we could get him back after they cut him.Interesting. Then I would have no problem with the trade. Come playoff time leave Van Horn off the playoff roster| :yes:


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## Tersk

*Re: My final analysis*



_Dre_ said:


> Yes, DJ is a project, but Henderson was giving us 15-18 minutes a game. I think if we divy that 8 to DJ, 7 to Bradley, it won't be like we're depending on them that heavily if we put the right lineups around them.
> 
> That's all I was saying about "overrating" Henderson. I think it opened the door for Bradley and Mbenga, who could combine for respectable play, and we get Van Horn.


Just because we can divide up their minutes, doesn't mean that we'll get equal play. Henderson gave us good rebounding, and defense. Shawn isn't very good and even though DJ rocks, he's very raw. Anyone want to have a betting game on how many fouls he will be picking up in his playing time. But that said, I do love his shotblocking, but he needs to learn to block the shot, and *not* get the foul. 

We may be overrating Henderson, but he was very important to our team. He came in and did exactly what we wanted him to do as backup, he hustled, defended and rebounded. He is a greta backup, and I'll really miss him here


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## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

wow if that happened then I would be EXTREMELY happy with this deal. It makes a lil more sense now if the bucks waive hendersen and then we pick him back up and carry the rest of his salary for this year but the thing that kinda makes that sketchy is the fact that we are over the cap. Do we still have a trade exception? Maybe we gave the bucks money (which we did) to help pay for hendersen's contract and then we are going to bring him right back using our trade exception to sign him? Everything is so unclear right now


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## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> this trade was terrible. everyone on our current teams knew their roles. We are on a five game winning streak molly whopping teams and showed mad heart in every game crushing teams in the fourth quarter. now we have totally destroyed that chemistry. I don't know what to think at this point.
> 
> *I completely forgot about this point, we are on a 5 game streak after beating such teams as Phoenix and Sacramento, without Marquis, Stackhouse and sometimes Dampier. Why mess up the chemistry while we are playing our best ball*
> 
> Even with Dirk off the floor the mavs have been fine scoring wise because our "D" has kept us in games. And the thing is we haven't been healthy all year. Guys like Daniels, Finley, stack, etc etc have all missed time which has led to us not scoring as much as we could have.
> 
> Now daniels is back and we are finally getting healthy (cept damp and stack) and now we make a move for MORE scoring?
> *Besides, where is KVH gonna play? I doubt he'll play that much at PF (since he's now in the West), so why bring him here? He will probably take away minutes from Josh Howard, who in turn will take away minutes from everyone else, and then they need to make more time for Daniels...argh*
> 
> Howard, Daniels, Terry, Harris, and Armstrong are all great to solid defenders on the perimeter.
> *And KVH is not *
> 
> But now with damp out bradley and d.j benga must protect the basket and I don't know if d.j is ready yet. We went from having a 4 headed center monster to basically 2 right now.
> *A 2 headed monster which fouls all the time*
> 
> If bradley doesn't play well this can spell disaster because nellie will put dirk at center and then we'd have someone like van horn playing pf (yikes) or howard playing out of position at 6 7 (no!) because he has a 7 2 wingspan. It works for the suns but marion is a lil stronger than howard is and howard would get in foul trouble.
> *Hopefully Bradley will do his role, or otherwise we're screwed. I can imagine Dirk being put at Center, which really really sucks as he played the majority of last season there...and it wasn't that pretty either. I mean, can Dirk guard Tim Duncan? Because Bradley sure as hell can't. Dampier was really strong, meaning he guarded these guys*
> 
> I don't know what we are doing right now. I really don't.


Nice post


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## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Gambino said:


> However, ESPN 103.3 is saying that the Bucks really have no need for Henderson and we could get him back after they cut him.Interesting. Then I would have no problem with the trade. Come playoff time leave Van Horn off the playoff roster| :yes:


That would be huge for us if it ended up basically Booth for Van Horn. I hope Henderson's the type of person not to hold a grudge, and realize he could win a title here. 

And as far as playoff rosters, we would have exactly 12 players if we deactivated DJ and put Henderson back on the roster.


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## Gambino

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Yes. We gave cash away with the deal. The ticket just reported the same thing now. The gm of the bucks is del harris's son. So after the trade is official, the bucks might waive him and we sign him back. Beautiful.


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## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> wow if that happened then I would be EXTREMELY happy with this deal. It makes a lil more sense now if the bucks waive hendersen and then we pick him back up and carry the rest of his salary for this year but the thing that kinda makes that sketchy is the fact that we are over the cap. Do we still have a trade exception? Maybe we gave the bucks money (which we did) to help pay for hendersen's contract and then we are going to bring him right back using our trade exception to sign him? Everything is so unclear right now


We could give him the mi*n*imum.


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## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Gambino said:


> Yes. We gave cash away with the deal. The ticket just reported the same thing now. The gm of the bucks is del harris's son. So after the trade is official, the bucks might waive him and we sign him back. Beautiful.


I really do hope so, but the main question is. Would Keith Van Horn accept a small role, for a legitimate shot at winning the Championship?

C: Dampier/Bradley/Benga
PF: Nowizki/Henderson/Van Horn
SF: Howard/Stackhouse/Van Horn
SG: Finley/Daniels
PG: Terry/Harris/Armstrong

Thats a nice team, Van Horn will come in and score points when Dirk is really tired. Hopefully hit the long shots


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## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



_Dre_ said:


> We could give him the mi*n*imum.


DOESN'T work that way man. nba contracts are guranteed. For instance. In nba live go waive someone. Their salary will still be on the books. It would still count against the cap. So unless the bucks are going to carry hendu's salary and pay it with part of the money we gave them it makes no sense for that to happen. Because we can't afford to give hendu 9 mil unless we have some type of salary cap exception we can use to jack up his salary some. 

Hendu is gonna be pissed too. he just got married on saturday and I know he wasn't even THINKING ABOUT MOVING. who is to say he will even come back.


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## Dre

*Re: My final analysis*



Theo! said:


> Just because we can divide up their minutes, doesn't mean that we'll get equal play. Henderson gave us good rebounding, and defense. Shawn isn't very good and even though DJ rocks, he's very raw. Anyone want to have a betting game on how many fouls he will be picking up in his playing time. But that said, I do love his shotblocking, but he needs to learn to block the shot, and *not* get the foul.
> 
> We may be overrating Henderson, but he was very important to our team. He came in and did exactly what we wanted him to do as backup, he hustled, defended and rebounded. He is a greta backup, and I'll really miss him here


That's all true, but I was noting that trading Henderson does not leave the cupboard bare. We still have two guys who are going to block shots on accident, not to mention one of them is a project we need to feel out to see if he can play.

Henderson was good for us, but in my opinion we're a better team after this deal. But if we do sign Henderson back, this is all null and void.


----------



## SMDre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Let's wait and see. First, I hate loosing Booth since he had just started playing well (now it makes since why he was getting pt even before Damp got hurt). Lets also remember that KG, Duncan, and Amare can't score 100 pts by themselves. 

But if we can get Henderson back and cheaper then this is a great trade.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> DOESN'T work that way man. nba contracts are guranteed. For instance. In nba live go waive someone. Their salary will still be on the books. It would still count against the cap. *So unless the bucks are going to carry hendu's salary and pay it with part of the money we gave them it makes no sense for that to happen.* Because we can't afford to give hendu 9 mil unless we have some type of salary cap exception we can use to jack up his salary some.


I knew all of that. And the point you made about us trading them the cash to pay him with, and then them waiving us is exactly what would happen in that scenario. His 9 million is on the Bucks' books, but we gave them cash to help pay that off. Then they probably cut him loose, and we resign him, if he wants to that is. 

This is looking more and more like a blatant salary dump by the Bucks, and you know how those have turned out with Cassell and Allen. 



> Hendu is gonna be pissed too. he just got married on saturday and I know he wasn't even THINKING ABOUT MOVING. who is to say he will even come back.


He's a proffesional. He knows he has an expiring contract, and he knows Nelson's propensity, so he'd be fooling himself if it was 100% out of his mind. 

As far as him wanting to sign back if that happened, who knows. He could be angry, or he could also realize he has a slot here he can slide right back into, and contribute to a title, as well as make more money with two teams paying him.


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



_Dre_ said:


> I knew all of that. And the point you made about us trading them the cash to pay him with, and then them waiving us is exactly what would happen in that scenario. His 9 million is on the Bucks' books, but we gave them cash to help pay that off. Then they probably cut him loose, and we resign him, if he wants to that is.
> 
> This is looking more and more like a blatant salary dump by the Bucks, and you know how those have turned out with Cassell and Allen.
> 
> 
> 
> He's a proffesional. He knows he has an expiring contract, and he knows Nelson's propensity, so he'd be fooling himself if it was 100% out of his mind.
> 
> As far as him wanting to sign back if that happened, who knows. He could be angry, or he could also realize he has a slot here he can slide right back into, and contribute to a title, as well as make more money with two teams paying him.


lol that's a good point. him being paid two times? why the hell wouldn't he do it? Get ya 9 mil then maybe another cool nba vet's league minimum to help with the new family you're starting. I'd be game to do it.


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

man i'm hearing rumors from FOUR DIFFERENT DALLAS BOARDS THAT THE BUCKS ARE GOING TO WAIVE HENDERSEN and the mavs will get him right back. Del harris's son is apart of the bucks organization I believe and del is a mavs assistant


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

The Mavericks acquired Keith Van Horn from Milwaukee in hopes of extending defenses with another primary offensive threat, president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said after Thursday's NBA trade deadline.

"It was too good to pass up," Nelson said.

The Mavericks gave up Alan Henderson and Calvin Booth, along with cash considerations, for the 6-10 Van Horn, who will be joining his fifth team in the last four seasons.

In losing Henderson, the Mavericks are surrendering the only player who had seen action in every game this season. He had become a solid backup, good defender and excellent rebounder. He also had started recently in place of injured center Erick Dampier.

"We expect to take some heat on that, no doubt," Nelson said. "Alan was great for our chemistry, a really good glue guy."

Booth had been used sparingly this season, although he played his best game as a Maverick at Phoenix before the All-Star break.

In Van Horn, the Mavericks are getting a career 17-point scorer who was averaging only 10.4 points this season with the Bucks. He has not been the same since missing 18 games in December and January with ankle tendonitis.

He was averaging 17.2 points in 36.9 minutes before the injury, but has had only two double-digit scoring games since returning. He's averaged just 5.9 points since Jan. 11 as his playing time dipped.

However, the Mavericks have been trying to acquire another player with offensive pop to help their cause not only when Dirk Nowitzki is on the bench but who could complement him when both are in the game.

"We felt like we needed a guy who could extend the defense and keep us going in those minutes when Dirk is taking a breather," Nelson said. "Even if you just think about last-second situations, if you put Dirk in one corner and Keith in the other, who do you leave?

"It's a nice luxury piece for us to get."


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

viewpoints taken from other boards

poster's name

peppersquad:

So Im drivng to the bank listening to the New Beck song. Kick *** BTW. 


Then I turn it over to ESPNRadio and I hear the end of a phrase that says for "Alan Hendu and Calvin Booth". Then I start to go nuts! 

Thats 15 million dollars in sallary!!!! 

PJ Brown + ?? 
Marshall?????? 
ADavis + ?? 


Nope 

KVH


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> man i'm hearing rumors from FOUR DIFFERENT DALLAS BOARDS THAT THE BUCKS ARE GOING TO WAIVE HENDERSEN and the mavs will get him right back. Del harris's son is apart of the bucks organization I believe and del is a mavs assistant


That's gotta be it. Why else would we give them money *with* and expiring contract?


----------



## Ragsy

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> DOESN'T work that way man. nba contracts are guranteed. For instance. In nba live go waive someone. Their salary will still be on the books. It would still count against the cap. So unless the bucks are going to carry hendu's salary and pay it with part of the money we gave them it makes no sense for that to happen. Because we can't afford to give hendu 9 mil unless we have some type of salary cap exception we can use to jack up his salary some.
> 
> Hendu is gonna be pissed too. he just got married on saturday and I know he wasn't even THINKING ABOUT MOVING. who is to say he will even come back.


I don't understand your point. If we signed him back after he was waived we aren't responsible for any of his previous contract. Just whatever we sign him for. The Bucks would be responsible for a pro-rated portion of that 9M for the rest of the season. So we have to pay the majority of it anyway. Add whatever cash we added in the deal and it probably isn't very much money the Bucks are laying out.

I also have no clue how a career back-up and journeyman in the final year of an obnoxiously large contract for his contributions wouldn't see a trade coming. Even beyond that, it is not a certainty that Dallas would have resigned Henderson even if he didn't get traded.


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

We are excited to bring Keith Van Horn to Dallas. Keith’s versatility, experience and shooting ability were the factors for us to make this decision,” said President of Basketball Operations Donnie Nelson. “We appreciate the contributions made by Alan Henderson and Calvin Booth and we wish them well.”


----------



## SMDre

*Tooo Bad*

Man I feel sorry for Gary Payton. He moves from a playoff contender to the lonley Hawks. You think we could have used him?


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

And the Bucks GM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is Del Harris' son...the plot thickens..


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Tooo Bad*



SMDre said:


> Man I feel sorry for Gary Payton. He moves from a playoff contender to the lonley Hawks. You think we could have used him?


Probably not, he'd take away time from Dev and I don't want that


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Ragsy said:


> I don't understand your point. If we signed him back after he was waived we aren't responsible for any of his previous contract. Just whatever we sign him for. The Bucks would be responsible for a pro-rated portion of that 9M for the rest of the season. So we have to pay the majority of it anyway. Add whatever cash we added in the deal and it probably isn't very much money the Bucks are laying out.
> 
> I also have no clue how a career back-up and journeyman in the final year of an obnoxiously large contract for his contributions wouldn't see a trade coming. Even beyond that, it is not a certainty that Dallas would have resigned Henderson even if he didn't get traded.



yea I see how/why this happened. But it was just the "timing" of it


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

I totttaly agree with Dre. You guys are overstating Alan Henderson's importance to this team.


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

*taken from another board about kvh's health*

He's not close to 100%. He has to wear a giant boot on his ankle when he's not in the game. As said above he is much less effective off the bench than as a starter but he can't play more than 15 minutes or so. He got nailed on a flagrant foul last night and was writhing on the floor grabbing his ankle. He got up to shoot the FT's, then hit the bench and didn't return.


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Well, he is a big expiring contract next season. Hopefully we can trade him


----------



## Ragsy

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> yea I see how/why this happened. But it was just the "timing" of it


Well the timing is solely the trade dealine.

I'm not going to go into depth into Henderson's production with us this year, but we are talking about a guy who only has value from a trade perspective rigth now. I think we could have made a better deal for the Mavericks right now, but long term this makes so much more sense.

Something that has not been stated here once is that Van Horn only has one year left on his deal, and it is a monster. Come the trade deadline next year we should be able to pick up 1 or 2 significant pieces with our Van Horn and Jason Terry contracts. The value of expiring contracts seemed low this season, perhaps because of the lack of big FA's this summer, perhaps because there are so many teams still in contention in the East, I don't know. But in the end trading away Henderson made sense now, and the fact we got back a guy who can contribute in a way no-one else on our roster can right now, and that we only have an obligation to him contractually for one more season makes the deal fine with me.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Ragsy said:


> Something that has not been stated here once is that Van Horn only has one year left on his deal, and it is a monster. Come the trade deadline next year we should be able to pick up 1 or 2 significant pieces with our Van Horn and Jason Terry contracts. The value of expiring contracts seemed low this season, perhaps because of the lack of big FA's this summer, perhaps because there are so many teams still in contention in the East, I don't know. But in the end trading away Henderson made sense now, and the fact we got back a guy who can contribute in a way no-one else on our roster can right now, and that we only have an obligation to him contractually for one more season makes the deal fine with me.


Good point, I meant to mention that in my trade analysis.


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

My wishful dreaming is getting Mike Bibby, how I would love that


----------



## Gambino

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Theo! said:


> My wishful dreaming is getting Mike Bibby, how I would love that


that wouldn't be bad.but terry isnt that bad of a player himself though.


----------



## SMDre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Ragsy said:


> Well the timing is solely the trade dealine.
> 
> Something that has not been stated here once is that Van Horn only has one year left on his deal, and it is a monster. Come the trade deadline next year we should be able to pick up 1 or 2 significant pieces with our Van Horn and Jason Terry contracts. The value of expiring contracts seemed low this season, perhaps because of the lack of big FA's this summer, perhaps because there are so many teams still in contention in the East, I don't know.


Another reason is that the labor agreement between the NBA and its PA is up at the end of the year. Their could be another work stopage, but I think the NBA learned form the NHL.


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Gambino said:


> that wouldn't be bad.but terry isnt that bad of a player himself though.


Dallas trades: SG Marquis Daniels (9.0 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.3 apg in 24.9 minutes)
PG Jason Terry	(11.6 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 28.9 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Darius Songaila	(6.6 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 19.5 minutes)
PG Mike Bibby	(19.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.2 apg in 38.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +5.1 ppg, +1.9 rpg, and 0.0 apg.

Sacramento trades: PF Darius Songaila	(6.6 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 19.5 minutes)
PG Mike Bibby	(19.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.2 apg in 38.5 minutes)
Sacramento receives: SG Marquis Daniels	(9.0 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.3 apg in 24.9 minutes)
PG Jason Terry	(11.6 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 28.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -5.1 ppg, -1.9 rpg, and -0.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


----------



## aussiewill

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Nellie will keep marquis and biiby will be to much money to keep, JEt is doing a reasonable job anyway.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Theo, it's a pipedream . 

(Watch me eat these words at the deadline next year...)


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Yes it is 

(Hopefully you will be...)


----------



## Gambino

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Sorry theo. But i would throw up if we do that trade.Quis and Terry plays Defense. Bibby eh um..... :no: Terry and a healthy Quis do a great job already both offensively and defensively.


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm

mavs wouldn't give nash 12 mil but we trade for kvh and his 15 mil deal? sighs. 

kvh is making more than any other player on the mavs. that's disgusting. 

dirk has to be pissed now


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Gambino said:


> Sorry theo. But i would throw up if we do that trade.Quis and Terry plays Defense. Bibby eh um..... :no: Terry and a healthy Quis do a great job already both offensively and defensively.


You wouldn't? We get a young backup PF and Bibby. Bibby is pretty good defensively

Bibby is a great mix of scoring, defense and passing, just the Sacramento system holds back his Assist numbers


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> http://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm
> 
> mavs wouldn't give nash 12 mil but we trade for kvh and his 15 mil deal? sighs.
> 
> kvh is making more than any other player on the mavs. that's disgusting.
> 
> dirk has to be pissed now


Nash was 30, was a sort of reckless player, and he wanted 60M over five years. I can't say I totally don't agree with Cuban.

KVH is expiring next year though.


----------



## Gambino

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Theo! said:


> You wouldn't? We get a young backup PF and Bibby. Bibby is pretty good defensively
> 
> Bibby is a great mix of scoring, defense and passing, just the Sacramento system holds back his Assist numbers


No i'll pass. Terry is better defensively and so is Quis. I can see your point on Songalia but where will he play? Off the bench? The sacramento system isn't that much different then what is here now. You could say there offense is more effective.


----------



## mavsman

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Wow, I was in a meeting all day and I miss this. First of all, I don't know why you all are so negative on this deal. Calvin Boothe was one of our 5 Centers so obviously we could do without him. We can give D.J. some more time to develop.

So basically this is a Keith Van Horn for Alan Henderson trade. How can you all not be happy about that? Van Horn is a very good player. He is only 29 and is a Career 17 ppg and 7.3 rpg player.

Don't let the fact that he had an injury fool you into thinking that he is not good anymore. Look at Stackhouse for proof of that. Lots of people thought 29 year old Stackhouse was not only a cancer but no longer had talent. They were wrong.

In my opinion you always trade for more talent if you can. Clearly Van Horn is a more talented player than Henderson. This is a great trade!

I only worry about chemistry issues if you are trading 30 minute per game type players. When you trading 10-15 minute players its not much of an issue.

I have been saying that I thought we should look to upgrade from Henderson and I think that is exactly what we did. I would have moved Hendu for P.J. Brown. Van Horn is better than Brown and is 6 years younger.

The Mavericks should never hesitate to upgrade thier team.

Van Horn is an upgrade.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mavsman said:


> Wow, I was in a meeting all day and I miss this. First of all, I don't know why you all are so negative on this deal. Calvin Boothe was one of our 5 Centers so obviously we could do without him. We can give D.J. some more time to develop.
> 
> So basically this is a Keith Van Horn for Alan Henderson trade. How can you all not be happy about that? Van Horn is a very good player. He is only 29 and is a Career 17 ppg and 7.3 rpg player.
> 
> Don't let the fact that he had an injury fool you into thinking that he is not good anymore. Look at Stackhouse for proof of that. Lots of people thought 29 year old Stackhouse was not only a cancer but no longer had talent. They were wrong.
> 
> In my opinion you always trade for more talent if you can. Clearly Van Horn is a more talented player than Henderson. This is a great trade!
> 
> I only worry about chemistry issues if you are trading 30 minute per game type players. When you trading 10-15 minute players its not much of an issue.
> 
> I have been saying that I thought we should look to upgrade from Henderson and I think that is exactly what we did. I would have moved Hendu for P.J. Brown. Van Horn is better than Brown and is 6 years younger.
> 
> The Mavericks should never hesitate to upgrade thier team.
> 
> Van Horn is an upgrade.


 :worship: 

Someone agrees with me here.


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mavsman said:


> Wow, I was in a meeting all day and I miss this. First of all, I don't know why you all are so negative on this deal. Calvin Boothe was one of our 5 Centers so obviously we could do without him. We can give D.J. some more time to develop.
> *I don't mind Booth leaving*
> 
> So basically this is a Keith Van Horn for Alan Henderson trade. How can you all not be happy about that? Van Horn is a very good player. He is only 29 and is a Career 17 ppg and 7.3 rpg player.
> *Sure he's okay, but I think the problem every seems to be having is that he's not the type of player that we need. His defense isn't great (I wont say too much, because Dirk has vastly improved. Maybe KVH can too) and he's very soft. He is the prototypical Maverick for the past few years, which inturn is effecting our reputation/play. Do we really need more offense?*
> 
> Don't let the fact that he had an injury fool you into thinking that he is not good anymore. Look at Stackhouse for proof of that. Lots of people thought 29 year old Stackhouse was not only a cancer but no longer had talent. They were wrong.
> *But this guy is in like a foot brace when he's not playing, Henderson was the only guy who's played in all 52 games for us this year. Considering our luck with injuries, I wouldn't be surprised to see Keith Van Horn take a stumble for the worse*
> 
> In my opinion you always trade for more talent if you can. Clearly Van Horn is a more talented player than Henderson. This is a great trade!
> *What about last year, we had heaps of talent, and look where that got us. Talent is obviously important, but to win you need a nice mixture of offense and defense. We just gained offense, and lost defense.*
> 
> I only worry about chemistry issues if you are trading 30 minute per game type players. When you trading 10-15 minute players its not much of an issue.
> 
> I have been saying that I thought we should look to upgrade from Henderson and I think that is exactly what we did. I would have moved Hendu for P.J. Brown. Van Horn is better than Brown and is 6 years younger.
> *But PJ is a nice locker room prescense, and he's a good rebounder and defender. But he is 35? Now I didn't know that. I would of liked Nellie to go after Nazr even, we could of get Henderson for him*
> 
> The Mavericks should never hesitate to upgrade thier team.
> *Like last year?*
> 
> Van Horn is an upgrade.
> *Offensive upgrade? Yes
> Team upgrade? Who knows*


We will have a busy trading _season_ next year, as we have Jason Terry, Keith Van Horn and Tariq Abdul Wahad all with expirings. I really hope that Nellie can pull off some moves that make us better, I really do.


----------



## Ragsy

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Theo! said:


> We will have a busy trading _season_ next year, as we have Jason Terry, Keith Van Horn and Tariq Abdul Wahad all with expirings. I really hope that Nellie can pull off some moves that make us better, I really do.


Abdul-Wahad's contract doesn't expire until the year after that.

I'd love to think next year we can make two trades, but Jason Terry's contract is a little less than 7M I beleive. Which is less than Alan Henderson's this year. I doubt we'll be able to move him on his own for much.

The problem as well could be with Harris' development. The trade of Terry will be dependant on Harris making significant enough progress to be our starting point guard.


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Oh, my bad, I thought Tariq was expiring next season

But the thing is with Jason Terry, he is much more valuable than Alan Henderson. Henderson is only a backup, whilst Jason Terry is a capable starting Point Guard for one of the best teams in the league. Hopefully we could package him with a bad contract for a defensive player

Nice point about Devin, if he turns out to be a starting caliber player by midseason next year, I wouldn't be surprised to see Terry go. Maybe we'd need a backup PG in return with others, but I wouldn't be surprised. Devin Harris is part of the future of this franchise


----------



## thebac

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

I agree that Henderson's role is somewhat overstated. He was like Eddie, nice to have, hustles, does all the little things, but nothing that cannot be replaced.

My bigger concern is actually not that Henderson is a better player than KVH. My concern is that KVH makes the Mavs a worse team. Right now, everyone has role, and everyone's on the same page. Now you got KVH. Where does he fit in? If the Mavs did not have Stack, KVH might be useful for scoring off the bench. However, Stack's already here.

The problem with getting KVH is that I see Nellie not being able to help himself and going small with Dirk at C, KVH at PF, Josh at SF, Fin at SG, and JT at the point. With Henderson there, Nellie was never tempted to take away minutes from Damp to make more PT for Henderson. With KVH, we're back to the two-headed PG experiment, except at PF/C this time. Not going to be pretty. I almost wish that KVH gets injured (and Damp, please get healthy soon), so Nellie won't do crazy stuff.


----------



## mff4l

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

look at daniels! out there killing. yet we need more offense. *sighs*


----------



## Ragsy

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



mff4l said:


> look at daniels! out there killing. yet we need more offense. *sighs*


I don't view this as a move for more offense though. Keith Van Horn is a better player than Henderson....period. The fact that he gives us a great bargaining chip next year when the trade deadline roles around doesn't hurt either.


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Ragsy said:


> I don't view this as a move for more offense though. Keith Van Horn is a better player than Henderson....period. The fact that he gives us a great bargaining chip next year when the trade deadline roles around doesn't hurt either.


Yes, Keith Van Horn is a *better* player than Alan Henderson. But, do you think he's better for the teams needs? I mean, from what I understand we got burned by Songalia and Miller today. Henderson would of been very nice today.

I get that Keith will be good next year for us, but why bother set up for next year when we had a _legitimate_ chance to win it _all_ this year.

I just don't understand


----------



## Tersk

*By David Moore*

The Mavericks told us Thursday that everyone in the organization was on the same page in trading for Keith Van Horn.

If that's true, I must have been reading from the wrong book these last eight months.

People around the league I respect, who have no particular love for all things Mavericks, believe this can be a good deal. It's certainly a good deal if Alan Henderson drifts back to Dallas early next week as a free agent.
But I can't help but think that the Mavericks fell back into the same, bad offensive habits that club officials swore they were trying to break.

Coach Don Nelson can stress the importance of chemistry and everyone accepting his role. Assistant coach Avery Johnson can preach defense until the veins pop out on his neck. Wave a 6-10 jump-shooter under Nelson's nose and watch out. The only place more dangerous is between Donald Trump and a reality TV show.

Or Jose Canseco and a book deal.

Nelson articulated how this trade fills the need for another shooter on the front line. He said Van Horn gives the Mavericks the flexibility and firepower to match up with Phoenix and Seattle in a shootout and the 3-point threat they need to stretch the defense and clear the lane for Dirk Nowitzki against San Antonio and other defensive-minded teams.

That's one view. My view is that the Mavericks repudiated – or at the very least undercut – their thrust of the last eight months.

The Mavericks talk defense and acquire Van Horn.

The San Antonio Spurs live defense and add Nazr Mohammed. You tell me which was the better defensive move.

And no longer tell me the Mavericks are interested in moving forward with a more conventional, defensive-minded look.

"I'd say that's far from the truth," said Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks president of basketball operations, arguing there's no shift in philosophy. "I think this is just a really skilled basketball player."

Donnie Nelson went on to say that Van Horn is a solid team defender who should improve under the tutelage of Johnson, but we left that part out. Why?

Because we don't believe it. When the two Nelsons talked about Van Horn in their news conference, they mentioned his versatility, his shooting touch and the fact he's a veteran. The forward's defense never came up until after the news conference when the two were asked about what Dallas was losing on the defensive end with Henderson gone.

"Would you guys have made that trade?" Don Nelson asked, addressing the skepticism he heard in repeated media questions. "We're probably up on things a little more than you guys are.

"It wasn't a slam dunk. We had to think about that issue."

Van Horn is a more talented player than Henderson and Calvin Booth combined. That doesn't mean he'll make the Mavericks a better team. We've been down that offensive road before with last season's glut of Nowitzki, Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison at forward.

The Mavericks say Van Horn will allow them to reduce Nowitzki's minutes. Feel free to file that under the category of believe it when you see it.

The Mavericks say Van Horn's presence won't take touches away from Jerry Stackhouse and that he remains the sixth man with all other reserves falling in line after him. Again, let's see how that works.

Weaknesses are exposed in the playoffs. Opponents would bracket Nowitzki and force Henderson to shoot the open jumper. The Mavericks weren't comfortable with that option.

Van Horn gives the Mavericks another shooter. But the more shooters the Mavericks have on the court, the more baskets they give up on the other end. How far has that gotten Dallas in the past?

It's hard to imagine that this is the move that pushes the Mavericks over the top.

"I don't know if you can ever talk titles on a deal," Don Nelson said. "But I think he gives us a better shot than before."

Van Horn does give the Mavericks a shot. A jump shot.

And not much more. 

Link 
----------------------------
Very nice article


----------



## Dre

*Re: By David Moore*

Very good article. I get his point.



> Weaknesses are exposed in the playoffs. Opponents would bracket Nowitzki and force Henderson to shoot the open jumper. The Mavericks weren't comfortable with that option.
> 
> Van Horn gives the Mavericks another shooter. But the more shooters the Mavericks have on the court, *the more baskets they give up on the other end. How far has that gotten Dallas in the past?*


That's where I think the overrating of Henderson is, where we talk as if we traded Dampier for a guy who shoots all day. Henderson was an important piece, but I don't see us as a totally shifting from a team that plays D, to the "old Mavs". I just don't think Henderson had *so much* impact that he changes our team concept. That's my only problem with the people who don't like this trade.

We still have Bradley, who played well tonight, and Mbenga, who I mention we should take a look at. Alan Henderson does not change our team concept, nor does Keith Van Horn really.


----------



## Dragnsmke1

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

This is a great tade once where full powered...our 2nd sting could get 6th in the East...this trade is bigger then the next couple of games...we can afford to lose a few with the huge gap between 4th and 5th...


----------



## nbanoitall

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

hendersen will be in a mavs uni again this year:yes:


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Theo, I would think that you like this trade. You for one wanted us to trade for Raef Lafrentz. Well, you got Raef Lafrentz minus 2 inches.... :yes:


----------



## Eurcides

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

By all indications Henderson will be back with the Mavericks in March.

Milwaukie will release him and since Hendu will automatically clear waivers he will then be able to resign with the Mavs for the vet minimum. The Bucks need to clear more cap room to resign one of their own guys.

In essence the Mavs are trading Boothe for Van Horn. Woo hoo!


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



DHarris34Phan said:


> Theo, I would think that you like this trade. You for one wanted us to trade for Raef Lafrentz. Well, you got Raef Lafrentz minus 2 inches.... :yes:


Not at all, sure they may both be white and perimeter players but they are very different
- Raef LaFrentz has good defense, he is fairly "quick" and wouldn't struggle as much guarding the Kevin Garnetts/Chris Boshs of the league. I've used this before, but Keith can't guard my grandma.
- Raef is a very good shotblocker, Keith is a *very* poor shotblocker for his size
- Raef is a bigman

I understand the point your trying to make, as they both play smaller than their size indicates they should. But Raef is a Center, Keith is a SF/PF tweener. The main difference, is the defense. Considering we're the Dallas Mavericks, that difference would be much more helpful here


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

true that Lafrentz would help with KGs and bigger players, but would Henderson really make that big of an impact against those players? What I'm saying is that I'm willing to part with Henderson's "scrappyness" and his knack for the offensive glass for KVH's more complete, polished game. KVH still has a lot to prove, much like Hendu, but I think KVH will produce more. KVH won't win DPOY anytime soon, but either would Alan Henderson....


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Eurcides said:


> By all indications Henderson will be back with the Mavericks in March.
> 
> Milwaukie will release him and since Hendu will automatically clear waivers he will then be able to resign with the Mavs for the vet minimum. The Bucks need to clear more cap room to resign one of their own guys.
> 
> In essence the Mavs are trading Boothe for Van Horn. Woo hoo!


I really hope he does sign here, I'd be *so* happy with that trade then. Assuming this is real, I'd think this is one of the best trades that the Mavericks have done.

My main problem wasn't getting Keith Van Horn, it was getting Keith Van Horn *and* losing Alan Henderson. Because as it stands, we have a horrible frontcourt rotation

But, is this legal? Can we do this? I mean, if you trade a player is he allowed to resign here?

Erick Dampier/Shawn Bradley
Dirk Nowitzki/Alan Henderson/Keith Van Horn
Josh Howard/Jerry Stackhouse/Keith Van Horn
Michael Finley/Marquis Daniels/Jason Terry
Jason Terry/Devin Harris/Darrell Armstrong/Marquis Daniels


Now thats scary, and I really really hope that we get Hendu pack


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



DHarris34Phan said:


> true that Lafrentz would help with KGs and bigger players, but would Henderson really make that big of an impact against those players? What I'm saying is that I'm willing to part with Henderson's "scrappyness" and his knack for the offensive glass for KVH's more complete, polished game. KVH still has a lot to prove, much like Hendu, but I think KVH will produce more. KVH won't win DPOY anytime soon, but either would Alan Henderson....


Now, of course neither of them will win DPOY, but are we expecting them to? We need to draw a line somewhere. Every team needs a "Henderson" type player, a scrappy player who knows what it takes to win and comes in and produces at 110% for his 15 or so minutes.

Why I'm so annoyed with this defense thing is that KVH didn't even guard PF's in the East, what's he going to do in the West? I mean, Finley's defense has declined so much that we're giving him the worst offensive backcourt player from the opposition

My main point is that people need to look past the statistics and how much better this makes us look on paper and need to realize that our D will struggle. He is not quick enough to guard guards and not big/strong enough to guard forwards. When Dirk sits down and KVH comes in, who will he guard? 

Henderson will be missed this upcoming game, as I would imagine he was going to guard Amare. Yeah! Lets put Keith or Bradley on Amare and let him go off for 50+


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

If Hendu does come back, I think the lineup will look like this:

PG: Jason Terry/Devin Harris/ Darrel Armstrong
SG: Michael Finley/ Marquis Daniels
SF: Josh Howard/ Jerry Stackhouse/Keith Van Horn
PF: Dirk Nowitzki/ Keith Van Horn/ Alan Henderson
C: Erick Dampier/ Alan Henderson / DJ Mbenga / Pavel Podz.

This would be a serious, serious, playoff team... :biggrin:


----------



## Shabadoo

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

I made a somewhat optimistic post about this subject in the main forum.

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1927540&postcount=37

On second thought though....hmmmmm.

Maybe they brought in Van Horn so that Nelson can demonstrate first hand to Dirk "what not to do". Van Horn is the anti-Dirk, the bad Dirk. He does all the things that Dirk needs to fix (and has improved substantially in): no defense, reiles too much on the 3, softness, bad haircut.

Maybe the team can use Van Horn as an outlet for all insults, physical violence and moments of madness so that the team can build team unity before the playoffs?


----------



## The_Franchise

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Theo! said:


> Now, of course neither of them will win DPOY, but are we expecting them to? We need to draw a line somewhere. Every team needs a "Henderson" type player, a scrappy player who knows what it takes to win and comes in and produces at 110% for his 15 or so minutes.
> 
> Why I'm so annoyed with this defense thing is that KVH didn't even guard PF's in the East, what's he going to do in the West? I mean, Finley's defense has declined so much that we're giving him the worst offensive backcourt player from the opposition
> 
> My main point is that people need to look past the statistics and how much better this makes us look on paper and need to realize that our D will struggle. He is not quick enough to guard guards and not big/strong enough to guard forwards. When Dirk sits down and KVH comes in, who will he guard?
> 
> Henderson will be missed this upcoming game, as I would imagine he was going to guard Amare. Yeah! Lets put Keith or Bradley on Amare and let him go off for 50+


Good post. :greatjob:


----------



## Gambino

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Theo! said:


> I
> But, is this legal? Can we do this? I mean, if you trade a player is he allowed to resign here?


We would have to wait 48 hours. After that, if the Bucks release him. We can resign him. It is now standing at 24 hours. :yes:


----------



## Gambino

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Henderson has just been waived.


----------



## Tersk

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Sweet, now we need to pick him up

Hopefully he doesn't resent us for trading him, and he can come back to Texas with his wife


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Alan Henderson, for all his scrappiness, all his "hustle", does *not* change our team concept in his absence. We, as basketball fans, *do* overrate our role players, the guys who dive on the floor, who play tough, etc. They are integral parts of the team, but for all of Henderson's scrappiness, he does not change the direction we are going in. People have been calling for Henderson to be moved for a roleplayer off the bench all year, and when it happens, we don't want him over Keith Van Horn? Henderson is a big body in the middle, and he's willing to go down low, but I cannot fathom how we're talking about us going from a good defensive team to the "old Mavs", the runners and gunners. 

Henderson is not all that good an interior defender. Sure, he can put a big body on the starting PF, but in all honesty, what else can he do? He's respectable on the boards, yes, but Van Horn is better. He may have a reputation as soft, but for what he lacks in pure grittiness, he beats Henderson with skill. I don't see how we can talk about Henderson like he's Ben Wallace, but just berate Van Horn, an 8 year veteran who's always been at least the 3rd best player on his team. Van Horn may not be rah-rah, he may not bust his chin on the floor going after the ball, but he's still more valuable than Henderson to us. 

The bottomline is: Henderson is not all that good down low, he's played well for us, but in reality he's a slow defender who's a smaller than Van Horn at that. Keith Van Horn makes this team better because he's just as good if not better as Henderson down low, despite his reputation. Because he can step out and score if needed. He's the better backup for Dirk simply because he's 3/4 of Dirk, and I'm sure we wouldn't be as angry as we are now if Nowitzki played even 10 of Henderson's minutes. He has the same skillset, but Dirk is obviously better. I would rather have Van Horn, who's a better player than Henderson in *all* facets of the game. 

And it's not like KVH is Antoine Walker, who dominates the ball, is going to shoot all the time, messing up the flow of the game. He's a team player. The trading of Henderson for Van Horn does not make us an offensive juggernaut, we still have plenty of good defenders on our team. I'm fed up pretty much with the "Henderson, Henderson, Henderson" talk after this trade. Honestly, neither player deserves 5 pages full of back and forth argument. If you're telling me a backup Power Forward, who plays 15 minutes a game will change the way we play for the long haul, trying to win a *title*, I really do not know what to say. 

Henderson is serviceable, but this opens up minutes for the rookie(s possibly), and Bradley. Henderson is being criminally overrated by us. Bradley played good ball for us last night. When Dampier comes back, he can take over Henderson's role fine. They're both slow, plodding defenders, but they're bodies. If it's as simple as 6 fouls, (which it is against the great PFs of the league), I don't see what the problem is. Neither man is going to seriously affect the way a KG, Amare, or TD plays. I'm sorry to come out with this rant, but it's laughable to me how much faith we put in Henderson. 

We're all predicting chaos, Nelson is going to trot out small ball, etc. but we don't even have our team back, so we don't know what the big picture looks like. I say we should at least wait, and give Van Horn the benefit of the doubt, because a) he's easily better than Henderson and b) neither player has as much impact on the big picture as we're letting on.


----------



## Tristan

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*

Hope they sign him...that would be the smart thing to do...

why cant we do that to TAW? Just release him...


----------



## mff4l

*hendersen waived by the bucks*

Hello and goodbye: Bucks waive ex-Mav Henderson

05:30 PM CST on Friday, February 25, 2005


Associated Press



MILWAUKEE -- The Milwaukee Bucks waived forward Alan Henderson Friday, a day after acquiring him from the Mavericks. 

The Bucks traded Keith Van Horn to Dallas for Henderson and center Calvin Booth in a cost-cutting move that will enable general manger Larry Harris to make a big offer to Michael Redd, who will become an unrestricted free agent after the season. 

Booth and Reece Gaines, who was acquired from Houston for backups Mike James and Zendon Hamilton, will be third-stringers in Milwaukee for the rest of the season.


----------



## Kekai

*Re: hendersen waived by the bucks*

Im guessing the Mavs are going to sign him again..


----------



## Tersk

*Re: hendersen waived by the bucks*

I sure hope we do


----------



## The Future7

*Re: hendersen waived by the bucks*

Yea they probably are gonna sign. This is good news for the Mavs. We would have really missed him especially with Damp injured.


----------



## Nevus

*Re: hendersen waived by the bucks*

Yeah.


----------



## The Future7

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



_Dre_ said:


> Alan Henderson, for all his scrappiness, all his "hustle", does *not* change our team concept in his absence. We, as basketball fans, *do* overrate our role players, the guys who dive on the floor, who play tough, etc. They are integral parts of the team, but for all of Henderson's scrappiness, he does not change the direction we are going in. People have been calling for Henderson to be moved for a roleplayer off the bench all year, and when it happens, we don't want him over Keith Van Horn? Henderson is a big body in the middle, and he's willing to go down low, but I cannot fathom how we're talking about us going from a good defensive team to the "old Mavs", the runners and gunners.
> 
> Henderson is not all that good an interior defender. Sure, he can put a big body on the starting PF, but in all honesty, what else can he do? He's respectable on the boards, yes, but Van Horn is better. He may have a reputation as soft, but for what he lacks in pure grittiness, he beats Henderson with skill. I don't see how we can talk about Henderson like he's Ben Wallace, but just berate Van Horn, an 8 year veteran who's always been at least the 3rd best player on his team. Van Horn may not be rah-rah, he may not bust his chin on the floor going after the ball, but he's still more valuable than Henderson to us.
> 
> The bottomline is: Henderson is not all that good down low, he's played well for us, but in reality he's a slow defender who's a smaller than Van Horn at that. Keith Van Horn makes this team better because he's just as good if not better as Henderson down low, despite his reputation. Because he can step out and score if needed. He's the better backup for Dirk simply because he's 3/4 of Dirk, and I'm sure we wouldn't be as angry as we are now if Nowitzki played even 10 of Henderson's minutes. He has the same skillset, but Dirk is obviously better. I would rather have Van Horn, who's a better player than Henderson in *all* facets of the game.
> 
> And it's not like KVH is Antoine Walker, who dominates the ball, is going to shoot all the time, messing up the flow of the game. He's a team player. The trading of Henderson for Van Horn does not make us an offensive juggernaut, we still have plenty of good defenders on our team. I'm fed up pretty much with the "Henderson, Henderson, Henderson" talk after this trade. Honestly, neither player deserves 5 pages full of back and forth argument. If you're telling me a backup Power Forward, who plays 15 minutes a game will change the way we play for the long haul, trying to win a *title*, I really do not know what to say.
> 
> Henderson is serviceable, but this opens up minutes for the rookie(s possibly), and Bradley. Henderson is being criminally overrated by us. Bradley played good ball for us last night. When Dampier comes back, he can take over Henderson's role fine. They're both slow, plodding defenders, but they're bodies. If it's as simple as 6 fouls, (which it is against the great PFs of the league), I don't see what the problem is. Neither man is going to seriously affect the way a KG, Amare, or TD plays. I'm sorry to come out with this rant, but it's laughable to me how much faith we put in Henderson.
> 
> We're all predicting chaos, Nelson is going to trot out small ball, etc. but we don't even have our team back, so we don't know what the big picture looks like. I say we should at least wait, and give Van Horn the benefit of the doubt, because a) he's easily better than Henderson and b) neither player has as much impact on the big picture as we're letting on.



I never really thought of KVH this way. I will give him a chance. I still hope we get Henderson though.


----------



## Tersk

Maybe this was all planned, as others said Larry Harris is the GM of the Bucks, and the son of the Mavericks assistant GM. Maybe Hendu knew about this all along, because he is now getting more money. He's getting his fat paycheck from the Bucks, and (hopefully) the veterans minimum from us.He did just get married, so I hope this is true

Please

It'll be a great trade then


----------



## The Future7

Wow I didnt know Del Harris was the GM of the Bucks. Maybe this was planned.


----------



## Tersk

The Future7 said:


> Wow I didnt know Del Harris was thGM of the Bucks. Maybe this was planned.


My bad, it's actually Larry Harris. Sorry


----------



## Tersk

I'm currently listening to Cuban, he's a very interesting guy. He definately know's his stuff. He's helped draw me to the conclusion that this trade isn't that bad. He said these things were the main reasons as to why he did the trade

- Dirk was getting too many minutes, and he'd be washed out come playoff time. He would definately rather people say "Keith isn't that great" than "Look at Dirk, he seems so tired"
- When Hendu was on, we weren't getting any offensive game from him (or Booth for that matter)
- Keith Van Horn really isn't expected to do much, 8th or 9th man with 15-20 minutes a game
- He improves our depth, which is a big reason as to why we have been doing so successful this season. KVH only helps
- He won't be on *that* much with Dirk, only if Damp is struggling with his man or in foul trouble
- The contract was a small part, as it'll be nice next season. But the organization hated Booth's contract, which runs 2 seasons longer
- *If* Hendu is waived by the Bucks, the Mavs are definately going to talk to him
- Cuban doesn't think Keith is that bad of a defender, he has some nice team defense. Cuban felt Hendu was getting overpowered and blown past too much
- He didn't go after Kurt because he's undersized, and that puts us back a few years 
- DJ MBenga may be seeing the court a bit more this season, Cuban seems to think that he and Pavel will become contributors in this league
- Avery Johnson was all over this trade, he really did like it

Overall, the main reason was for Dirk. Keith can come in and play (and score more importantly) when Dirk sits down. Our scoring was way down with Dirk on the bench

Cuban has got me liking this trade, as he brought up some nice points that I didn't realize. I will be an even bigger fan if we get Henderson back

*Unrelated things Cuban said* 
Avery Johnson has been really stressing D to our guys, getting into their faces. 
Michael Finley seems to have these shooting slumps every season, he shot 29% in January. In the 60 win season, he shot 34% in March


----------



## Gambino

Very Interesting. Note that part about Avery stressing Defense. When Nelson was ejected. The Mavs played inspired on the defensive end. Dirk with that huge block and they were alot quicker. I cannot wait till he becomes head coach lol.


----------



## The Future7

I think that inspiration also came from Nelson getting ejected. He always does it on purpose to get us hyped up.

After reading what Cuban said, im happy about this trade. I forgot that Dirk would probably be tired in the playoffs after playing all these minutes.


----------



## Dre

Theo! said:


> I'm currently listening to Cuban, he's a very interesting guy. He definately know's his stuff. He's helped draw me to the conclusion that this trade isn't that bad. He said these things were the main reasons as to why he did the trade
> 
> - Dirk was getting too many minutes, and he'd be washed out come playoff time. He would definately rather people say "Keith isn't that great" than "Look at Dirk, he seems so tired"
> - When Hendu was on, we weren't getting any offensive game from him (or Booth for that matter)
> - Keith Van Horn really isn't expected to do much, 8th or 9th man with 15-20 minutes a game
> - He improves our depth, which is a big reason as to why we have been doing so successful this season. KVH only helps
> - He won't be on *that* much with Dirk, only if Damp is struggling with his man or in foul trouble
> - The contract was a small part, as it'll be nice next season. But the organization hated Booth's contract, which runs 2 seasons longer
> - *If* Hendu is waived by the Bucks, the Mavs are definately going to talk to him
> - Cuban doesn't think Keith is that bad of a defender, he has some nice team defense. Cuban felt Hendu was getting overpowered and blown past too much
> - He didn't go after Kurt because he's undersized, and that puts us back a few years
> - DJ MBenga may be seeing the court a bit more this season, Cuban seems to think that he and Pavel will become contributors in this league
> - Avery Johnson was all over this trade, he really did like it
> 
> Overall, the main reason was for Dirk. Keith can come in and play (and score more importantly) when Dirk sits down. Our scoring was way down with Dirk on the bench




Cuban?! I said *all* that and noone agreed with me! I feel like Rodney Dangerfield or something... :sad: :biggrin:


----------



## mavsman

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



_Dre_ said:


> Alan Henderson, for all his scrappiness, all his "hustle", does *not* change our team concept in his absence. We, as basketball fans, *do* overrate our role players, the guys who dive on the floor, who play tough, etc. They are integral parts of the team, but for all of Henderson's scrappiness, he does not change the direction we are going in. People have been calling for Henderson to be moved for a roleplayer off the bench all year, and when it happens, we don't want him over Keith Van Horn? Henderson is a big body in the middle, and he's willing to go down low, but I cannot fathom how we're talking about us going from a good defensive team to the "old Mavs", the runners and gunners.
> 
> Henderson is not all that good an interior defender. Sure, he can put a big body on the starting PF, but in all honesty, what else can he do? He's respectable on the boards, yes, but Van Horn is better. He may have a reputation as soft, but for what he lacks in pure grittiness, he beats Henderson with skill. I don't see how we can talk about Henderson like he's Ben Wallace, but just berate Van Horn, an 8 year veteran who's always been at least the 3rd best player on his team. Van Horn may not be rah-rah, he may not bust his chin on the floor going after the ball, but he's still more valuable than Henderson to us.
> 
> The bottomline is: Henderson is not all that good down low, he's played well for us, but in reality he's a slow defender who's a smaller than Van Horn at that. Keith Van Horn makes this team better because he's just as good if not better as Henderson down low, despite his reputation. Because he can step out and score if needed. He's the better backup for Dirk simply because he's 3/4 of Dirk, and I'm sure we wouldn't be as angry as we are now if Nowitzki played even 10 of Henderson's minutes. He has the same skillset, but Dirk is obviously better. I would rather have Van Horn, who's a better player than Henderson in *all* facets of the game.
> 
> And it's not like KVH is Antoine Walker, who dominates the ball, is going to shoot all the time, messing up the flow of the game. He's a team player. The trading of Henderson for Van Horn does not make us an offensive juggernaut, we still have plenty of good defenders on our team. I'm fed up pretty much with the "Henderson, Henderson, Henderson" talk after this trade. Honestly, neither player deserves 5 pages full of back and forth argument. If you're telling me a backup Power Forward, who plays 15 minutes a game will change the way we play for the long haul, trying to win a *title*, I really do not know what to say.
> 
> Henderson is serviceable, but this opens up minutes for the rookie(s possibly), and Bradley. Henderson is being criminally overrated by us. Bradley played good ball for us last night. When Dampier comes back, he can take over Henderson's role fine. They're both slow, plodding defenders, but they're bodies. If it's as simple as 6 fouls, (which it is against the great PFs of the league), I don't see what the problem is. Neither man is going to seriously affect the way a KG, Amare, or TD plays. I'm sorry to come out with this rant, but it's laughable to me how much faith we put in Henderson.
> 
> We're all predicting chaos, Nelson is going to trot out small ball, etc. but we don't even have our team back, so we don't know what the big picture looks like. I say we should at least wait, and give Van Horn the benefit of the doubt, because a) he's easily better than Henderson and b) neither player has as much impact on the big picture as we're letting on.


This is a brilliant post. Well thought out and exactly how I feel. It's amazing how much people are overating Henderson. It is kind of how many of our fans overated Najera. Both are scrappy hustle players but they also both are liabilities on the offensive end. Henderson's biggest asset was he would come in and get rebounds and would play some scrappy "D". Not great "D" but scrappy. However did it ever bother any of you that he could not finish around the basket. Or they would leave him open for jumpers to double team Dirk or the fact that he was a bad foul shooter. Van Horn is every bit the rebounder that Henderson is. No he is not a scrappy defender but he is not as bad as people make him out to be. And he certainly not a liability on the offensive end. If they leave him to help out on Dirk he will hurt the other team. He is also a great foul shooter.

If we get Henderson back as well than that is gravy but if we do not it is a great trade anyway.


----------



## Zach

*Re: so we just traded hendersen and booth for keith van horn*

I am not buying this trade. Van Horn is an under=performer and we lose defense down low when Damp is out for the next couple weeks.


----------



## Dre

Henderson sounds like a guy weighing all options, at least initially.

Link 



> Whether Henderson is interested in coming back is another matter. Reached Thursday night, he declined comment on the prospect of returning to the Mavs and the trade in general.
> 
> "I'm the no-comment man," he said.


I don't want to be a pessimist, but it's no slam dunk he comes back here. The Heat just traded Malik Allen, they might go after him, The Nets seem to always be looking for veteran PFs, The Rockets could call, The Twolves maybe. He's definately not going to be unwanted. 

My money is on him coming back though.


----------



## Tersk

I refuse to listen to you, you avatar traitor


----------



## Dre

Oh please, Ginobili's a good player. I can use avatars of other NBA players, it doesn't mean I'm any less of a Mavs fan.


----------



## Ragsy

*Re: Merged: Mavs get Van Horn?*



Tristan said:


> Hope they sign him...that would be the smart thing to do...
> 
> why cant we do that to TAW? Just release him...


It wouldn't be a good move to waive Abdul-Wahad....we'd have to pay his contract anyway and we wouldn't get the reward of having his monster salary as a final year salary in 2 years time.

With Henderson it makes no difference for Milwaukee, as his contract expires at the end of this season.


----------



## mavsman

It looks like Henderson will be back with the team on Wednesday. And in fact according to Nelson he should be in uniform and playing in Wednesday nights game. They interviewed Nelson on the pregame show before the Phoenix game and he said that Hendu will be back.

That makes this trade go from good to fantastic. So we basically traded Calvin Boothe for Keith Van Horn.

With Stackhouse still out I think KVH will be a help in that role (offense off the bench) plus giving Dirk some more rest.

The way this team can not seem to stay healthy we need all the talented bodies we can get.


----------



## Gambino

02:25 PM CST on Monday, February 28, 2005


By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News



Alan Henderson and the Mavericks have an agreement in principle for the 6-10 forward to return to the team, probably as early as Tuesday. 

Henderson was traded with Calvin Booth to Milwaukee last Thursday. The Bucks waived Henderson the following day and he will clear waivers on Tuesday. At that time, he is free to sign with any team. 

"We have an agreement," coach and general manager Don Nelson said. "Nothing is official until it is signed. But we feel very good about getting him back." 

Nelson said he hopes to have Henderson on the upcoming road trip that starts Wednesday in Los Angeles vs. the Clippers. 

Henderson, in his tenth NBA season, played nine seasons in Atlanta before being acquired by the Mavericks with Jason Terry before the start of this season. He was the 16th overall pick by the Hawks in the 1995 NBA draft. 

In 52 games this season for Dallas, he averaged 3.5 points and 4.5 rebounds per game, primarily off the bench.


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## The Future7

When all our players is healthy, we will be a very deep team. Im glad to see Hendu is coming back.


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## Amir

With Henderson back, I think this turns to be one hell of a good trade for the Mavs!


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