# Bring in Artest



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I mean where is the risk ? His contract expires after this season, if it doesn't work out he will be gone and if it does they can still work on a long term deal. 

We need someone like him who can be a beast defensively and when he is focused, plays unselfish he is also a good contributor on the offensive end. At the same time this would only make sense if we can keep Josh (Dirk anyway) and I don't know if Sacramento would be interested in anything we have.


----------



## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Where is the risk? In his head.

Mighty big risk if you ask me.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

All their older players are coming off the books this year or next and they have no bad contracts for us to absorb. They are set to rebuild and even if Artest wanted to come to Dallas I can't see a move that'd make sense for Sac. 

In a perfect Mavs world tho, They'd trade us Miller (or two of the following:Mikki More/Kenny Thomas/SAR) and Artest for Jason Kidd in a complete tank job. Then we pick up Jamal Tinsley when the Pacers cut him. The ONLY way that works is if Sac is ready to start the rebuilding process next season instead of waiting for the following season.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I've been saying this for 3 years.

There's nothing wrong with his head. As long as noone throws cups of beer at him, he shouldn't have any relapses.

Sacramento probably doesn't want anything other than Dirk or Howard though. Maybe Kidd because of his expiring, but he wouldn't go there.


----------



## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

I learned in 2k8's association mode that the Mavs don't have much trade bait unless it's Dirk or Howard.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

I take back the only way statement, if a 3rd team was to get involved that wanted 2010 cap space we might be able to swing Stackhouse their way while they send youth to Sac and we end up with Artest. Still highly unlikely.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> I've been saying this for 3 years.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with his head. As long as noone throws cups of beer at him, he shouldn't have any relapses.
> 
> Sacramento probably doesn't want anything other than Dirk or Howard though. Maybe Kidd because of his expiring, but he wouldn't go there.


That's his problem if he doesn't want to go there, he has no bird rights like George did.


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

croco said:


> That's his problem if he doesn't want to go there, he has no bird rights like George did.


Why risk a $20 million expiring contract for someone that might not stay? then still lose in the playoffs, probably in the first round.
Trading Kidd for Artest just doesn't make sense for me. With Kidd, at least we still have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

t1no said:


> Why risk a $20 million expiring contract for someone that might not stay? then still lose in the playoffs, probably in the first round.
> Trading Kidd for Artest just doesn't make sense for me. With Kidd, at least we still have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs.


With Kidd we only have a chance to maybe make the playoffs and lose in the first round again. Kidd will be even worse next year, I'm not buying that most of his struggles are to blame on Avery.


----------



## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Would Dallas prefer Artest over Josh?


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

croco said:


> With Kidd we only have a chance to maybe make the playoffs and lose in the first round again. Kidd will be even worse next year, I'm not buying that most of his struggles are to blame on Avery.


That's why i said we still have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs. If you don't think we can win with Kidd/Artest or even make some noise in the playoffs, then why not wait till Kidd's contract expires and maybe make some big moves next offseason? 
I'd rather have the $20 million next year because Ron Artest is not worth $20 million.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Ruff Draft said:


> Would Dallas prefer Artest over Josh?


I can't speak for Management but I would think they would side with Josh since they've seem to stick by him through all the post/off-season bs thus far. 

Personally, I'd rather have Josh Howard with our current team. I just don't see Artest mixing well with Jason Kidd's style of play.


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Ruff Draft said:


> Would Dallas prefer Artest over Josh?


Mavericks? no
Me? yes


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

stevemc said:


> I just don't see Artest mixing well with Jason Kidd's style of play.


Probably, but it's not like Josh Howard played well with Kidd.
He deserves a second chance with the new coach but when i watched him play last year with Kidd, seemed like he didn't want anything to do with Kidd.
Artest is also a top defender in the league and has proven to be a lock down defender.:biggrin:


----------



## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Sacramento would appreciate Josh next to K-Mart. It's a deal that makes sense, but isn't likely.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

t1no said:


> That's why i said we still have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs. If you don't think we can win with Kidd/Artest or even make some noise in the playoffs, then why not wait till Kidd's contract expires and maybe make some big moves next offseason?
> I'd rather have the $20 million next year because Ron Artest is not worth $20 million.


We can't let Kidd's contract expire for nothing because we would still be over the cap and not be able to make a run at a major free agent. In fact, we would still only have to MLE to sign free agents. If we don't trade Kidd before the deadline, his contract becomes worthless.


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

croco said:


> We can't let Kidd's contract expire for nothing because we would still be over the cap and not be able to make a run at a major free agent. In fact, we would still only have to MLE to sign free agents. If we don't trade Kidd before the deadline, his contract becomes worthless.


Ok i didn't know that.
But to my understanding, we still have other contracts that will expire, not next year but the year after.
Kidd still gives us a much better chance at winning than Artest can give us. We are not going to find any success in Jet/Barea running the point for us.


----------



## nets1fan102290 (Apr 16, 2007)

thaKEAF said:


> I learned in 2k8's association mode that the Mavs don't have much trade bait unless it's Dirk or Howard.


i agree i never trade with the mavericks


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

nets1fan102290 said:


> i agree i never trade with the mavericks


Like the Nets are in that much better of a situation. :whatever:




Anyway, we have Stackhouse coming off the books the following year but Kidd, Eddie Jones, and Brandon Bass (not counting all the bottom of our roster) are expiring this season. 

The year after that is huge, Dirk, Howard, Dampier and that midget Barea are all expiring. Seems like management does have a time limit on this current Mav's core.

I've been saying it all along we HAVE TO trade Kidd for something this season otherwise we end up nothing to show from trading a top 5 pick (Harris), a defensive guard, and Diop except a wasted MLE this season on Diop.


----------



## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

The Mavs will never win anything without a good post player. Hasen't Mark Cuben figured this out yet? I think it's time to blow up the team.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

BlazerFan22 said:


> The Mavs will never win anything without a good post player. Hasen't Mark Cuben figured this out yet? I think it's time to blow up the team.


Yep. 3 more seasons 'til we can actually hope to say farewell to the 7' Guard at PF experiment.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

stevemc said:


> Yep. 3 more seasons 'til we can actually hope to say farewell to the 7' Guard at PF experiment.


and what a horrible experiment it was. how many times did the mavs make the finals without dirk?


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

rocketeer said:


> and what a horrible experiment it was. how many times did the mavs make the finals without dirk?


Didn't say it was a horrible experiment but obviously it hasn't been one that brings championship success. Some people have higher standards than others. 

Can't argue that Dirk is a offensive powerhouse and a mismatch nightmare. Which is why we only win games not championships. How many teams have won it all with their best player being as one dimensional as Dirk?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

croco said:


> That's his problem if he doesn't want to go there, he has no bird rights like George did.


All he has to do is pull a power move and say he won't report and the Kings'll shy away from him. Why do you think star players/big names turn in a list of where they will and won't go? So they know who not to waste their time negotiating with.

The same thing happened the year before last with AI and the Bobcats.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> All he has to do is pull a power move and say he won't report and the Kings'll shy away from him. Why do you think star players/big names turn in a list of where they will and won't go? So they know who not to waste their time negotiating with.
> 
> The same thing happened the year before last with AI and the Bobcats.


The Kings would want the expiring contract Jason Kidd, not the player Jason Kidd.


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

*HOOPSWORLD Rumor:*
DAL, MIA, PHX, SA, CHA all Want Artest.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

So much for that.


----------



## houst-mac (Aug 7, 2004)

Sorry guys, we just got him for basically nothing.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

houst-mac said:


> Sorry guys, we just got him for basically nothing.


Umm Donte Green and Bobby Jackson are both borderline starters that I wouldn't call "nothing."

Either way it's T-Mac's turn to be out for half the season so good luck with my Finnish friend.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

stevemc said:


> Umm Donte Green and Bobby Jackson are both borderline starters that I wouldn't call "nothing."
> 
> Either way it's T-Mac's turn to be out for half the season so good luck with my Finnish friend.


donte green and bobby jackson are not in any way borderline starters. jackson used to be starter quality but isn't anymore and donte may get to that point but certainly isn't there yet.

and you realize that with artest the rockets can afford to have some injuries during the season. they need to get everyone back for the playoffs but if one of the stars misses some time it really shouldn't be as big a deal as it has been the past few years.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

rocketeer said:


> donte green and bobby jackson are not in any way borderline starters. jackson used to be starter quality but isn't anymore and donte may get to that point but certainly isn't there yet.


This maybe true for some of the league's top teams but they are both decent players who will get minutes on most rosters. Borderline starter in my book means 6-8th on the depth chart or starting on a Eastern bottom feeder. Sorry if your definition differs from mine or once again you don't agree with me.


> and you realize that with artest the rockets can afford to have some injuries during the season. they need to get everyone back for the playoffs but if one of the stars misses some time it really shouldn't be as big a deal as it has been the past few years.


I'll give you that. There's just too many players on the roster who have missed significant time over the course of their careers to not expect the worse here.

Just like how I expect the Mavs to fall to any team with an all-star 2 guard since we refuse to make any upgrades at the position.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

stevemc said:


> This maybe true for some of the league's top teams but they are both decent players who will get minutes on most rosters. Borderline starter in my book means 6-8th on the depth chart or starting on a Eastern bottom feeder. Sorry if your definition differs from mine or once again you don't agree with me.


But that's exactly the point, the Rockets want to be championship contenders right now and players like Bobby Jackson or 19 year old Donte Greene aren't going to help them _at all_. Jackson played no role last year and he won't this year, plus they have another solid guard in Aaron Brooks who can fill in for him. Add Brent Barry to it and there is simply no need for Jackson. 

Greene could become a nice player down the road, that's a very big if however. The alternative is to send him to the D-League, let him play there and see if he has become someone who can be a part of the rotation when McGrady's back is done for good and most of the important role players are beyond their primes or not useful anymore.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

croco said:


> But that's exactly the point, the Rockets want to be championship contenders right now and players like Bobby Jackson or 19 year old Donte Greene aren't going to help them _at all_. Jackson played no role last year and he won't this year, plus they have another solid guard in Aaron Brooks who can fill in for him. Add Brent Barry to it and there is simply no need for Jackson.


Brent Berry :lol:

Now that's out of the way, why would you want younger untested in postseason play guards for the playoffs if you're trying to become a contender? 



> Greene could become a nice player down the road, that's a very big if however. The alternative is to send him to the D-League, let him play there and see if he has become someone who can be a part of the rotation when McGrady's back is done for good and most of the important role players are beyond their primes or not useful anymore.


That's where I disagree, Greene could be valuable when Brent Berry looks his age trying to defend players young enough to be his kids. Oh well, the Mavs have tried similar things and have failed while looking old and nonathletic by trading away youth for attempts to win now. With that said, good luck Rockets.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Brent Barry still has an elite skill, he is one of the best three point shooters in the league and he is also a competent ballhandler, something neither of our veterans (George, Jones, Buckner and so on) could claim. 

Brooks can easily replace Jackson because he is just as good or bad, Jackson just isn't good anymore. Artest is far superior to Greene and a great addition which is why I don't understand how anyone could not like that deal for the Rockets unless you are a huge Donte Greene fan.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

croco said:


> Brent Barry still has an elite skill, he is one of the best three point shooters in the league and he is also a competent ballhandler, something neither of our veterans (George, Jones, Buckner and so on) could claim.
> 
> Brooks can easily replace Jackson because he is just as good or bad, Jackson just isn't good anymore. Artest is far superior to Greene and a great addition which is why I don't understand how anyone could not like that deal for the Rockets unless you are a huge Donte Greene fan.


It's a great deal for both teams, neither parted with any key roster components for there immediate goals next season but to say Greene and Jackson are nothing is far fetched. One man's trash is another treasure completely applies for this deal.


----------

