# Pacers Talking O'Neal Trade With Several Teams?



## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

> According to Jermaine O'Neal, the Pacers are in trade talks with several teams and it is well-known that Isiah Thomas has tried on several occasions to acquire O'Neal, whom he coached for three seasons in Indiana.
> 
> Thomas might try to move Zach Randolph, who last month was the subject of trade talks involving Milwaukee.
> 
> ...


*Source:* New York Daily News


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

An O'Neal for Randolph swap just seems like crossing your fingers and hoping a change of scenery re-invigorates either player.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

I'll give you a list of teams I'd bet we're talking to-

Chicago
New York
New Jersey
Milwaukee
Washington

Those seem like the only real fits.

I like the Washington Idea though. Antawn Jamison+fillers seems like a good deal.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

gl getting a good deal for j oneal it's going to be tough

and no way the wiz trade antawn for the injury prone oneal at this point


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## TheTruth34 (Jul 22, 2006)

dannyM said:


> gl getting a good deal for j oneal it's going to be tough
> 
> and no way the wiz trade antawn for the injury prone oneal at this point


well said...at this point in their careers jamison is the better player.

also i came up with a milwaukee trade that gives the pacers bobby simmons, dan gadzuric and andrew bogut. i kno its kind of sucky but at this point it doesnt really matter because o'neal and the pacers suck so bad right now. i think alot of people just want to see o'neal gone...including me.

*also note that zach randolph is from indiana...marion to be precise and i think moving randolph here would help the pacer fan base and probably get his confidence up to get into all-star production and into the all-star game.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

if i were the wizards, i'd take the gamble.

caron butler/JO/gilbert is a very good trio if JO can get healthy.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

afobisme said:


> if i were the wizards, i'd take the gamble.
> 
> caron butler/JO/gilbert is a very good trio if JO can get healthy.


The thing is its looking like a healthy Antwan >> healthy O'Neal at this point.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth34 said:


> well said...at this point in their careers jamison is the better player.
> 
> also i came up with a milwaukee trade that gives the pacers bobby simmons, dan gadzuric and andrew bogut. i kno its kind of sucky but at this point it doesnt really matter because o'neal and the pacers suck so bad right now. i think alot of people just want to see o'neal gone...including me.


That'd be excellent. Bogut would be in the same type of perimeter offense here which might limit him, but he'd still get more of a chance than in Milwaukee. This team needs a good passing big man and someone with some thickness.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

It would be a dream if we could somehow get Jamison, but it ain't happening...Randolph I wouldn't really mind getting, and with PF about Bogut. I haven't gotten a chance to see how he's been doing this season, but the kid is still young and I think he would fit perfect here. Out of all the names thrown around in this thread the most realistic one I would love is Bogut, question is would the Bucks be willing to take on JO's contract, and injury problems???


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## DannyGranger33 (May 12, 2005)

He should have been traded a year ago. Now we will be lucky to get the 3 hustling white guys Bird covets.

Aside from Granger this team is painful to follow


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

DannyGranger33 said:


> He should have been traded a year ago. Now we will be lucky to get the 3 hustling white guys Bird covets.
> 
> Aside from Granger this team is painful to follow


I'm sorry but Granger is painful also. Too inconsistent, doesn't want to be the great defender he could be most of the time (besides the 4-5 block game). At this point we need to shop everyone but Dunleavy.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> I'm sorry but Granger is painful also. Too inconsistent, doesn't want to be the great defender he could be most of the time (besides the 4-5 block game). At this point we need to shop everyone but Dunleavy.


Give him time. It's only his third year. He's already improved immensely both years since his rookie year. He has some skills offensively now, so once he puts them together by about his 5th season, he should be an all-star. Now, his defense, ugh. He's working on it, but Ron Artest was definitely bull****ting us.

Talking trade, I want everyone off the team except Tinsley, Dunleavy, Granger, Williams, Foster, and Rush. 

We'll see with Daniels. He's been great uninjured, but when his knee hurts, he's worthless. 

As for Foster, I'd love to have him play his whole career in Indy, but if he wants to leave, he should be traded. I mean, we aren't winning anything any time soon, and he deserves to be on a good team.

As great as Rush has been, he's gone after this year. Some team is likely to give him a 3-4 million dollar deal, which is too much for us. It might be best trading him while his value is high, but I don't think many teams even know about him.

Diogu doesn't fit in this offense. He'd be a perfect summer trading piece to land something good.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Pacers Fan said:


> Give him time. It's only his third year. He's already improved immensely both years since his rookie year. He has some skills offensively now, so once he puts them together by about his 5th season, he should be an all-star. Now, his defense, ugh. He's working on it, but Ron Artest was definitely bull****ting us.
> 
> Talking trade, I want everyone off the team except *Tinsley*, Dunleavy, Granger, Williams, Foster, and Rush.
> 
> ...


Wtf? You want Tinsley on this team? If any point guard needs to stay it would be our current starter. At least he gives effort night in night out and plays through injuries. I know your going to say "His shot is his best quality and its not even falling", so i'll tell you what. O'Neals best quality is posting up but do you see him doing that well while he is injured? Nope. I agree with the rest of your list, but I still think Granger and Williams need to be traded if we can get another young star back. Not both, just one. Because they play the same position and have similar skill sets. Williams has the most potential, but I think Granger is more of a sure thing. If either can be moved for someone like Nenad Krstic and a pick or even someone like Tyrus Thomas, we gotta take that. But right now our biggest need is low post defense so we need to look to see if we can trade Granger for that before we do the ones mentioned before. What about Shelden Williams for Shawne Williams? Right now he is being labeled as somewhat of a bust, but so was Marvin Williams until his breakout year (this year). He is known as the landlord because he owns the paint, and i'm assuming thats on both O and D.


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## Wayne (May 24, 2006)

Diener is a liability on defense and Tinsley can create much better than Deiner by pressuring the middle. He is the only person on the Pacers right now that can really create open shots for his teammates. Diener plays it safe (few turnovers) but he doesn't really cause any defense to worry.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Wtf? You want Tinsley on this team? If any point guard needs to stay it would be our current starter.


Diener's cool, but he's rather worthless. When his shot is on, he's a nice backup, but he shouldn't be starting for any team.



> O'Neals best quality is posting up but do you see him doing that well while he is injured? Nope.


O'Neal hasn't been doing anything but fade aways since the end of the '03-'04 year.



> I agree with the rest of your list, but I still think Granger and Williams need to be traded if we can get another young star back. Not both, just one.


We don't need to blow up the whole team, though. I see what you mean, since they do play the same position, basically, and it'd be like having Chuck Person and Detlef Schrempf all over again. We'll see, though. I don't think either should be a SG, but if Danny learns to play PF, we could be good.



> Because they play the same position and have similar skill sets. Williams has the most potential, but I think Granger is more of a sure thing. If either can be moved for someone like Nenad Krstic and a pick or even someone like Tyrus Thomas, we gotta take that.


Yuck.



> But right now our biggest need is low post defense so we need to look to see if we can trade Granger for that before we do the ones mentioned before. What about Shelden Williams for Shawne Williams? Right now he is being labeled as somewhat of a bust, but so was Marvin Williams until his breakout year (this year). He is known as the landlord because he owns the paint, and i'm assuming thats on both O and D.


Super yuck. Shelden's terrible. Marvin actually has potential. If we're going to swap S. Williams's, I want Sean.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Pacers Fan said:


> Diener's cool, but he's rather worthless. When his shot is on, he's a nice backup, but he shouldn't be starting for any team.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sean Williams on the Nets? Talk about terrible. He has no offensive ability whatsoever. You get Stromile Swift starting and he will probably get about the same numbers. Plus, he is known for being a trouble maker/pot smoker, and we all know we don't need that on this team right now. I met someone at the gym that has played with Jamaal Tinsley in a pickup game and he says thats all he does is smoke pot. More to the point, yes I know Shawne has been arrested on those charges but at least he knows how to play offense. Granger for Sean is no better either.

Diener is useless? 10/5 for a backup starting is pretty good, especially since he has had career highs in both points and assists since he has been starting. Also, he is much more energetic on both D and O than Tinsley, and thats the kind of player we need at the starting 1.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Sean Williams on the Nets? Talk about terrible. He has no offensive ability whatsoever.


He dunks and blocks everything. This team needs a finisher.



> Granger for Sean is no better either.


Yeh, that would be terrible.



> Diener is useless? 10/5 for a backup starting is pretty good, especially since he has had career highs in both points and assists since he has been starting. Also, he is much more energetic on both D and O than Tinsley, and thats the kind of player we need at the starting 1.


Of course he's going to have career highs. Look at the team around him and how many minutes he's getting.

He's more energetic, but so was Darrell Armstrong, who wasn't very good. Energy is great off the bench in short spurts. Tinsley's one of the best passers in the game.


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## btyler (May 4, 2005)

I know I haven't been here in about a million years, but I just wanted to get my two cents in.

Zach Randolph for JO = awesome. I would so totally go for that.

But I'm not going to hold my breath because he's been on the trade block more than he's been on the Inactive list. We've had rumors flying around for almost two years now, and my friend Cyrux continues to inform me of news, with no results.

I hope the Pacers can turn this around. We have potential, and it'd be nice to see someone young, who could work well with Granger and the rest of 'em.


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

dannyM said:


> gl getting a good deal for j oneal it's going to be tough
> 
> and no way the wiz trade antawn for the injury prone oneal at this point


Yep. AJ is a lot more valuable to Washington than JO would be. No way the Wiz fall for that one.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Pacers Fan said:


> He dunks and blocks everything. This team needs a finisher.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Diener is more skilled than Armstrong, he just needs to be healthy to show it. Are you watching the games? Even the coach is talking about how well he passes, gets teammates open, pushes the ball, and even says he has became a better defender. Its sounding a lot like Diener is becoming a better option at point guard than Tinsley.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Jones2011 said:


> I know I haven't been here in about a million years, but I just wanted to get my two cents in.
> 
> Zach Randolph for JO = awesome. I would so totally go for that.
> 
> ...


The problem with Randolph though would be his behaviour and _our low post D would be even worse_, I think a rebuilding move would be better. I wasn't aware of the year Jamison is having, so yeah that would be terrible for the wizards.


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## btyler (May 4, 2005)

DienerTime said:


> The problem with Randolph though would be his behaviour and _our low post D would be even worse_, I think a rebuilding move would be better. I wasn't aware of the year Jamison is having, so yeah that would be terrible for the wizards.


Yeh, I'd prefer rebuilding. We could maybe get a good guard out of Eric Gordon, if we do it right. Maybe we can manage to keep him in Indiana for the entirety of his basketball career. That'd be classy.

Wait, is he a guard?

Regardless, I would rather rebuild than anything. As much as I want us to draft Serge Ibaka next year, I'd rather have someone worth something.


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## DannyGranger33 (May 12, 2005)

DienerTime said:


> I'm sorry but Granger is painful also. Too inconsistent, doesn't want to be the great defender he could be most of the time (besides the 4-5 block game). At this point we need to shop everyone but Dunleavy.


LOL are you kidding me? Granger is the only one that has shown up all season. 18 and 6 on a bad team.. those are good numbers.

Not to mention, it's not like Jim O'Brien wants his players to defend.. he's more concerned about chucking 25 3's a night than preaching defense.

But I hope we move Granger before he becomes the next good Pacer to be stuck on a franchise that will continue to go nowhere.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

DienerTime said:


> *Sean Williams on the Nets? Talk about terrible. He has no offensive ability whatsoever. You get Stromile Swift starting and he will probably get about the same numbers. Plus, he is known for being a trouble maker/pot smoker, and we all know we don't need that on this team right now. I met someone at the gym that has played with Jamaal Tinsley in a pickup game and he says thats all he does is smoke pot. More to the point, yes I know Shawne has been arrested on those charges but at least he knows how to play offense. Granger for Sean is no better either.*
> 
> Diener is useless? 10/5 for a backup starting is pretty good, especially since he has had career highs in both points and assists since he has been starting. Also, he is much more energetic on both D and O than Tinsley, and thats the kind of player we need at the starting 1.


Welp its pretty obvious you know nothing of Sean Williams. He is untradeable by the way. You don't find big men with his type of potential that often


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Diener is more skilled than Armstrong, he just needs to be healthy to show it.


Yeh, but Armstrong was also a 39-year-old veteran, so he had an intelligence edge. He still plays the same style as Armstrong, though.



> Are you watching the games?


Fewer than normal, but I'm probably on pace to catch about 50-60 this year.



> Even the coach is talking about how well he passes, gets teammates open, pushes the ball, and even says he has became a better defender. Its sounding a lot like Diener is becoming a better option at point guard than Tinsley.


Diener's nowhere close to Tinsley when it comes to passing or finding open people. He just makes safe passes that the rest of the team outside Mike Dunleavy does. Tinsley's one of the best in the league at that.

He pushes the ball, yes, and so does Tinsley. It just happens that when Tinsley gets to the basket, he can actually finish with a layup. Diener just dribbles back out and jacks a three.

Diener is exactly like Darrell on defense besides the flopping. His high-energy style can work for the first few seconds, but when he's slowly taken off the dribble, he's gone. Defenders can overpower and shoot over him, too. It's cool to throw a guy like Diener at a PG because he and Tinsley play the exact opposite style. Diener's is cool for 10 minutes, and while Tinsley isn't exactly a stellar defender, he at least slacks off his man a bit so he isn't taken off the dribble. Don't forget that he's one of the best ballhawks in the league, which set up fast breaks.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

He also turns it over less, and no Tinsley does not push the ball. Tinsley plays like a Spurs pace, and yet he blames it on his team mates saying they don't run for him. Diener doesn't make excuses like that.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> He also turns it over less, and no Tinsley does not push the ball. Tinsley plays like a Spurs pace, and yet he blames it on his team mates saying they don't run for him. Diener doesn't make excuses like that.


No way man. Tinsley's entirely correct. So many times I've seen him run up the court and be 1 on 4. It's pathetic. He's a fast break-type PG, but he's also smart enough to know when it's not worth the effort.

The comment worked, anyway. About a week after I read that, the Pacers started filling the lanes much more.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Get JO the **** outta here. I dont give a **** who we get. He's brutal. I really dont care. I saw Jamisons name being mentioned, I would be thrilled to see that happen but I doubt the Wizards would be dumb enough to make such a move. I wouldn't mind Bogut. He's not star but down the road I see him being a real good starting big man. Zach Randolph? Wow that would suck. Thats just trading **** for ****. No thanks Isiah. I wouldn't mind some on New Yorks young guys like David Lee though.

Right now I'm cheering for this team to lose. I want a great draft pick. Just imagine if we could get someone like Eric Gordon? That would make people from Indiana get excited about Pacers basketball again. Draft Gordon, trade Dunleavy (he's actually worth something now) for another young talented player and BAM right there we have a deadly trio for years to come.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Pacers Fan said:


> No way man. Tinsley's entirely correct. So many times I've seen him run up the court and be 1 on 4. It's pathetic. He's a fast break-type PG, but he's also smart enough to know when it's not worth the effort.
> 
> The comment worked, anyway. About a week after I read that, the Pacers started filling the lanes much more.


Even the Pacers announcers say Tinsley not nearly as fast break oriented than Diener. And Coach O'Brien also said that Diener takes better care of the ball than Tinsley. So what Tinsley does a few trick passes, sometimes it results in turnovers. We don't need flashy passing, we need solid ball movement is all. Diener provides that. Tinsley however decides sometimes to try to act like a superstar and it just doesn't work.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Even the Pacers announcers say Tinsley not nearly as fast break oriented than Diener.


So? Neither of them are very intelligent.



> And Coach O'Brien also said that Diener takes better care of the ball than Tinsley.


He's more cautious. I believe we've covered it.



> So what Tinsley does a few trick passes, sometimes it results in turnovers.


And sometimes it results in easy baskets and highlights for fans to actually enjoy. I like that more than bricking 3's, which has caused this team to have the worst attendance in the NBA.



> We don't need flashy passing, we need solid ball movement is all.


We need a leader on the court. Tinsley's it. This team isn't going to work with Dunleavy and Granger roaming around on the perimeter and Murph and Dunleavy playing a 2-man game. Tinsley sets people up for easy baskets, and we haven't been getting many recently.



> Tinsley however decides sometimes to try to act like a superstar and it just doesn't work.


He has a tendency to take bad shots. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Jamaal isn't very confident in his teammates in the clutch, and I don't blame him. No one else is becoming a clutch threat besides Rush.

Diener's been doing the same, though, with his shot selection. Sure, he hasn't been running isolation, but his number of bricked 3-pointers in the clutch is making me cringe.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Pacers Fan said:


> So? Neither of them are very intelligent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What has caused our low attendance is the fact this is the same old team from years ago, Do you really see our attendance raising when Tinsley gets back? Nope, if anything it has probanly risen in his absence. I guarantee if we trade O'Neal and Tinsley that would go up regardless of what we get in return. And Tinsley is no leader, he is more quiet than a mouse. Still, if the coach really thought Tinsley was better he would have started while he was healthy, and he didn't. And he will not even when he comes back. I think you're the only one here that seems to be a Tinsley fan.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Do you really see our attendance raising when Tinsley gets back?


Maybe on name recognition alone.



> I guarantee if we trade O'Neal and Tinsley that would go up regardless of what we get in return.


Not a chance. No casual fans know anyone on this team but O'Neal. Who's going to pay to see a starting lineup of 5 unathletic, no-name guys shooting 3's all game?



> And Tinsley is no leader, he is more quiet than a mouse.


He's not afraid to take all the responsibility, he's constantly telling people where to move, and when this team is down, he's our offense. Maybe not a leader off the court, but on it he's the closest we have.



> Still, if the coach really thought Tinsley was better he would have started while he was healthy, and he didn't.


Tinsley did start while he was healthy. That was until the Phildelphia game where AO started and Tinsley sat.

Obie's style of playing guys is so much different than Carlisle's. No matter what, Rick would try to keep the same lineup, but Obie changes it based on performance in the given time. Diener's been playing well and Tinsley's hurt. When Jamaal is only going to play 1 out of every 3 games, why disrupt the team with him starting? I believe he did the same thing with O'Neal earlier this year as well. Notice that 'Quis isn't playing that much anymore since his knee tendonitis has been bothering him.



> I think you're the only one here that seems to be a Tinsley fan.


Probably. It's been that way for a really long time.

Anyway, I think this argument is rather pointless at the moment. We both obviously have different visions for a better Pacer team, which is going to change what style of play we want our PG to use. I think Tinsley's style is absolutely perfect for this team when he's healthy, while you think Diener's the better option. We'll see. I remember some of us thought the same about Armstrong vs. Tinsley last year until Army's legs ran out and he started missing his jump shots.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Okay back to the topic at hand. I smell a deal soon, the west is getting better by the day with the Shaq trade, the Gasol trade, and now Kidd is almost officially going to Dallas. Hopefully Bird will get what he wants from a team in the west that is desperately trying to improve. All we need is a good MRI on O'Neals knee and then we can start seriously talking to some teams. The question is though, who in the west needs to make a move to compete? I could almost see the Rockets or Nuggets dealing with us, problem remains that the only player on the Rockets that could work cap-wise is McGrady, and I think O'Neal and Yao would be too much alike to fit well together. With the Nuggets, they have no real young talent other than the always injured Nene (who has a 40 or so mil contract over the next 4 years) and IMO he will just be a role player. Most of the other teams in the west are either standing pat or rebuilding. Sacramento could be a fit, but we would need to make it a three way deal because no way O'Neal would play with Artest, and also there is no way we would want Artest back. Thing is, they really don't have much young talent either. Now we talk about the east, we all know about the Knicks, we don't need to talk about them. How about the Bulls? Gordon would instantly improve us, and put butts in our seats. Thing is we would probably have to take on Wallace to make the numbers work, and i'm not sure if the fans want him on our team with the Detroit incident. Or we could send them Tinsley and take Hinrich and filler also.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

I can't believe that guy actually thinks Diener is good. I'm not saying hes a crappy player but he's definitely not worth talking about. I would rather have Tinsley any day.


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