# LeBron James already causing confusion?



## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

I saw on PTI that LeBron said his loyalty is to Nike, they are his family. Will LeBron cry to Nike and have Nike lean on Silas to give James huge PT, eventhough he'll suck his first year?


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

O cmon he wont suck his 1st year. Of course, he wont be a superstar, but Silas says he loves everything about him right now (after an extremely impressive workout today.) Plus, I have a feeling he's going to make this Bron's team right off the back.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> he'll suck his first year?


Who says he'll suck his first year? He won't be the best player next year, for sure, and he might be like Kobe and it'll take him 3 or so years to completely get used to the way basketball is played in the NBA, but he could be like Amare Stoudamire and adapt very well, very fast to the NBA.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> I saw on PTI that LeBron said his loyalty is to Nike, they are his family. Will LeBron cry to Nike and have Nike lean on Silas to give James huge PT, eventhough he'll suck his first year?


Uhh what confusion would this cause. Nike has been a staple in his life most likely for the past 3 years. What is wrong with him saying that


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

LeBron James projected rookie stat line

14ppg
7rpg
7apg
1spg
0bpg
35% FGP
65% FTP
36% 3PT
22 FGA
7 FTA
5TO
4 fouls



Nike isn't the team he plays for, he plays for the Cavs, however his Nike contract is much greater than what he can get from the Cavs.


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## kg_theGREATEST (Feb 21, 2003)

yo LeBron James will dominate next averaging nearly a triple double with all the alleys he's going to be throwing Davis,Miles,and Wagner.

17ppg,10apg,8rpg


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kg_theGREATEST</b>!
> averaging nearly a triple double


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: LeBron James already causing confusion?*



> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Who says he'll suck his first year? He won't be the best player next year, for sure, and he might be like Kobe and it'll take him 3 or so years to completely get used to the way basketball is played in the NBA, but he could be like Amare Stoudamire and adapt very well, very fast to the NBA.



Good point --- great comparisons. That Amare was something else. Amare was the exception, but if there is a duplicate --- LaBron could be it. Sure would be nice if he could surpass everyone's expectations.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: LeBron James already causing confusion?*



> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Who says he'll suck his first year? He won't be the best player next year, for sure, and he might be like Kobe and it'll take him 3 or so years to completely get used to the way basketball is played in the NBA, but he could be like Amare Stoudamire and adapt very well, very fast to the NBA.


I think the Amare comparison is rather accurate. The thing that all of the high school kids have is the amazing athletic ability. Where Amare separted himself was the fact that when Amare came out, he was a MAN physically, not a boy. LeBron is 6'8" and 245. If he gains an inch or two, he's got legit power forward size. That's why he's going to be good this season. LeBron is not exactly your typical 18 year old physically. He's a tank and he's ready to take the beating right now. 

On a side note, you got kids like Ndudi Ebi and Travis Outlaw who are a foot taller than me, but only 5 pounds heavier and still a bit under 200 who are going to get murdered for years in the league. Jonathan Bender anyone? They have tons of tallent, but physically, they're not even close, particularly at the age of 18. That's why high school kids need to go to college. It helps them develop, but they can work on their bodies there too.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

LeBron James projected rookie stat line updated
35mpg
14ppg
7rpg
7apg
1spg
0bpg
35% FGP
65% FTP
36% 3PT
22 FGA
7 FTA
5TO
4 fouls

He will not be Amare Stoudamire and even if he's that will still be a huge letdown for a kid who is supposed to be the second coming. 

You make a big deal about his physical size, well I hate to break it to you, but if Kobe, T-Mac, Iverson, even the likes of Ricky Davis and Aaron McKie would but up 45ppg against high school kids, LeBron didn't put up those #'s and the NBA is way tougher.


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## drewson (May 19, 2003)

YEAR Games FG% 3PT% FT% SPG BPG RPG APG PPG 
Garnett, Kevin 1995-96 80 .491 .286 .705 1.1 1.6 6.3 1.8 10.4 
Bryant, Kobe 1996-97 71 .417 .375 .819 0.7 0.3 1.9 1.3 7.6 
O'Neal, Jermaine 1996-97 45 .451 -- .603 0.0 0.6 2.8 0.2 4.1 
McGrady, Tracy 1997-98 64 .450 .341 .712 0.8 1.0 4.2 1.5 7.0 
Lewis, Rashard 1998-99 20 .365 .167 .571 0.4 0.1 1.3 0.2 2.4 
Miles, Darius 2000-01 81 .505 .053 .521 0.6 1.5 5.9 1.2 9.4 
Brown, Kwame 2001-02 57 .387 

YEAR Games FG% 3PT% FT% SPG BPG RPG APG PPG 
James, LeBron 2002-03 24 .561 38.4 68.1 2.9 1.9 9.5 4.8 30.0

He put up 4 times Kobe, along with 4 times the assists, YOU WERE SAYING?


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

King George, your saying LeBron is going to take 22 shots and 7 fts a game and only average 14 points? Your #s just don't add up, if he shoots 35% taking 22 shots he'll make about 7 or 8 shots a game, and if he shoots 65% on 7 fta he'll make 4 or 5. Right there is about 20 points a game. 

LeBron is going to get about 16 points 6 boards, 5 assists, but he won't be shooting nearly 22 shots, I see about 15 shots. He may get more rebounds and assists, but I doubt he'll get many more points. 

His loyalty should be with his team, but I think his statement was probably taking out of context. He went to the Rucker tournament and it's sponsored by Reebok, and obviously he is on Nike. He probably said his loyalty was to Nike in relation to playing in summer tournaments.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>drewson</b>!
> YEAR Games FG% 3PT% FT% SPG BPG RPG APG PPG
> Garnett, Kevin 1995-96 80 .491 .286 .705 1.1 1.6 6.3 1.8 10.4
> Bryant, Kobe 1996-97 71 .417 .375 .819 0.7 0.3 1.9 1.3 7.6
> ...


What kind of nonsense is this you've posted? People are saying he's more physically ready than T-Mac, Kobe etc. Kobe and T-Mac of today would drop 100 points on the players LeBron played against, it's silly to think he will have an impact on the league.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> King George, your saying LeBron is going to take 22 shots and 7 fts a game and only average 14 points? Your #s just don't add up, if he shoots 35% taking 22 shots he'll make about 7 or 8 shots a game, and if he shoots 65% on 7 fta he'll make 4 or 5. Right there is about 20 points a game.
> 
> LeBron is going to get about 16 points 6 boards, 5 assists, but he won't be shooting nearly 22 shots, I see about 15 shots. He may get more rebounds and assists, but I doubt he'll get many more points.
> ...


My man I was just throwing out numbers. He will have to shoot 20x's a game to get 14 points. He's just not ready for the league. I personally will enjoy watching him fall on his face.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> My man I was just throwing out numbers. He will have to shoot 20x's a game to get 14 points. He's just not ready for the league. I personally will enjoy watching him fall on his face.


That's a joke that anybody in the NBA would need 20 shots to get 14 points. All he would have to do is make 5, and a few fts. LeBron is 6'8 240, no other player entering the league out of high school has ever been that physically imposing, how many players coming out of college have been that big? He is incredibly athletic, which is what guided Darius Miles to a pretty decent rookie year for a high school kid. The difference between Miles and James is James is even more athletic and much much more skilled. If you honestly think he is going to flop based on what you have seen, you just don't know basketball.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Why would anybody enjoy watching a young man "fall on his face?" Because he's so rich and popular? Ooh, those darn jocks that made fun of you in High School! You'll finally get back at them this time!

People who are just salivating waiting for him to struggle so they can jump on him are sick in the head.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> Why would anybody enjoy watching a young man "fall on his face?" Because he's so rich and popular? Ooh, those darn jocks that made fun of you in High School! You'll finally get back at them this time!
> 
> People who are just salivating waiting for him to struggle so they can jump on him are sick in the head.


People who do that just say it so if by chance it does happen they can say I told you so, and if the player does become a star they'll just forget they ever said they would flop.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a joke that anybody in the NBA would need 20 shots to get 14 points. All he would have to do is make 5, and a few fts. LeBron is 6'8 240, no other player entering the league out of high school has ever been that physically imposing, how many players coming out of college have been that big? He is incredibly athletic, which is what guided Darius Miles to a pretty decent rookie year for a high school kid. The difference between Miles and James is James is even more athletic and much much more skilled. If you honestly think he is going to flop based on what you have seen, you just don't know basketball.


My man, LeBron James is going to have to take 20 shots just to get 14 points. He's not that fleet footed and he can't shoot so his path to the basket with always get stopped and he'll be forced to shoot and he'll miss. Again, you keep bringing up his physical stature, regardless of his size he was playing against high school kids, the NBA is not high school, let T-Mac or Kobe play against the same comp LeBron played against they'd drop 100 in the first half. LeBron James is a bust.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> LeBron James is a bust.


Oh, have you already looked into the future and seen his whole NBA career?  

You can't tell whether he will be good or not. Like I said, chances are he'll either be a "Kobe-Case" where he'll take 3 or so years to adapt or an "Amare-Case" where he will adapt to the NBA quickly in his rookie year and continue to improve. I'm not saying he will be good or won't, but you never know.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> My man, LeBron James is going to have to take 20 shots just to get 14 points.


You are saying LeBron will only shoot 35% (7 made shots, 20 attempted). Let's revive this thread a year later and if you are right, you can say "I told you so." However, I say it's fairly obvious that you will be proven wrong in your reckoning.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

Lebron is not a star in his first year face it. He needs the learning process that college gives, it will take at least 3 years for him to learn what college teaches players. He is going to be playing against NBA players who are much smarter(in terms of basketball), a hell of a lot faster, and stronger. He has no post up game and you can't name one SG that came into the L and dominated right off,except....... He needs to learn how the game is played rather than just knowing how to run a fast break and dunk the ball. 

He aint about to play PG. The only good passing we have seen him do in terms of Magic are on fastbreaks. We se good passes to athletes when all they have to do is dunk. I haven't really seen one of his high school games where he hasn't used athleticism to dominate, NOT IN THE NBA, he cant do that in the L. PLayers in the East to guard him are highly athletic. Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, and Vince Carter just to name a few and if you think he can score 20 on them then you dont watch basketball.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

What we have is King George saying James will be a bust and MemphisX saying James will get 22, 6 and 7 a game this year. I think we will find our answer some where in the middle I expect low teens in points and all around numbers because he will command a lot of attention (when Ricky Davis should). The Cavs could avg. a lot of points with him running the offense. Look for Ricky Davis to avg. 26 ppg.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

Its gonna be up there because the defense will focus on Lebron so much. Every vet in the League is gonna want to throw his shot. Ricky gonna get on a hot streak real early next season.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> Lebron is not a star in his first year face it. He needs the learning process that college gives, it will take at least 3 years for him to learn what college teaches players. He is going to be playing against NBA players who are much smarter(in terms of basketball), a hell of a lot faster, and stronger. He has no post up game and you can't name one SG that came into the L and dominated right off,except....... He needs to learn how the game is played rather than just knowing how to run a fast break and dunk the ball.
> 
> He aint about to play PG. The only good passing we have seen him do in terms of Magic are on fastbreaks. We se good passes to athletes when all they have to do is dunk. I haven't really seen one of his high school games where he hasn't used athleticism to dominate, NOT IN THE NBA, he cant do that in the L. PLayers in the East to guard him are highly athletic. Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, and Vince Carter just to name a few and if you think he can score 20 on them then you dont watch basketball.


So in other words, you think he's a "Kobe-Case". Very reasonable. :yes:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Well the first year for him will be particularly telling because I have a feeling the ball will be shoved in his face more than any other rookie, and depending on what he does with it will tell how he is going to develop. We can't really compare him to Kobe because the lakers were already a playoff team, and he was just a component added for the future, not really expected to produce big numbers so soon. Lebron isn't going to a playoff team, he is going to his team, so things will revolve around him seemingly. So my point is, he doesn't have time to be a "Kobe Case" because this is his team already, and things will be shoved in his face, and he will be expected to have pretty good production this year. I'm guessing he'll be a 16-7-7 guy his first year, which is pretty good for him to be growing on. I think he is so hyped, more than anyone else coming from high school because it is evident that he has a man's physique, and won't need the average development of a high-schooler. He's 6-8, 240 with definition, and just about everyone else coming in was a pole. The thing is he is only 18 and still has room to grow. He will probably round out to 6-9 and 3 quarters, which is a solid NBA body. The thing with a lot of recent draft picks is that even though they play the position good in college or high-school, they aren't physically either ready, or prototype size. He seems to have the body, and the skills to produce like something like Vince Carter did. (Mind you that was his team back then, and Lebron his just as explosive and more skilled than him.)


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

Do you understand that every single NBA player is going to try his hardest to make Lebron look like a fool? If he averages 12 PPG I will be shocked. This isn't Kansas anymore, he is going to get punked A LOT this season.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Philo</b>!
> Do you understand that every single NBA player is going to try his hardest to make Lebron look like a fool? If he averages 12 PPG I will be shocked. This isn't Kansas anymore, he is going to get punked A LOT this season.


Don't you mean Ohio? And technically it is Ohio. He's playing for the Cavs. Maybe you should say this isn't high school anymore. 

Just Kidding


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> I saw on PTI that LeBron said his loyalty is to Nike, they are his family. Will LeBron cry to Nike and have Nike lean on Silas to give James huge PT, eventhough he'll suck his first year?


First of all, how can you ask that question about "Nike" leaning on Silas on something that has not happened - You don't know how much PT Silas will give James?

Second, how do you come to a conclusion about James "sucking his first year" - something else that has not happened?


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## drewson (May 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this you've posted? People are saying he's more physically ready than T-Mac, Kobe etc. Kobe and T-Mac of today would drop 100 points on the players LeBron played against, it's silly to think he will have an impact on the league.


First off NO ONE SAID THAT, outside of<strike> the moron who said he would average a triple double</strike>( since we can find out who said that on this thread, it is toooo close to namecalling, which we do NOT allow. )

EVERYONE HOWEVER DID SAY

that he is more physically ready NOW than kobe, tmac, etc. were ENTERING THE LEAGUE.

So to break it down, he is more physically ready to enter the nba than kobe and t-mac were.

Is anyone going to dispute that? He's 245lbs at 6% bf

Kobe was a frickin' rail, and I don't know about T-Mac


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I think Lebron will do fine.

My prediction is that Lebron will be great for Kobe, because all those Jordan brown nosers will start attacking Lebron when he starts doing well for no reason other than jealously  

LOL


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>drewson</b>!
> So to break it down, he is more physically ready to enter the nba than kobe and t-mac were.
> 
> Is anyone going to dispute that? He's 245lbs at 6% bf
> ...


T-Mac is still a "frickin' rail" and LeBron is already bigger than Kobe ever will be. LeBron is definately an Amare-case where he will be good enough to get ROY consideration, but leave people wondering and amazed at what is to come.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: LeBron James already causing confusion?*



> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> First of all, how can you ask that question about "Nike" leaning on Silas on something that has not happened - You don't know how much PT Silas will give James?
> ...


First of all this isn't a big deal if Nike gets mad. What can they do to the Cavs, nothing. Lebron has to play for them for the next 4 years at least. Nike can't do this because this isn't a College where the top player can leave for the pros. He is in the pros and shoe companies can't control anything the pro teams do. They sure won't take sponsorship away because Nike would lose money. 

To make a long story short, if James does complain Cleveland will tell Nike to kiss their *** and tell James that he plays for them. He will not be demanding anything until he proves he is a superstar in this league.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*You FORGOT One thing ...*



> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> First of all this isn't a big deal if Nike gets mad. What can they do to the Cavs, nothing. Lebron has to play for them for the next 4 years at least. Nike can't do this because this isn't a College where the top player can leave for the pros. He is in the pros and shoe companies can't control anything the pro teams do. They sure won't take sponsorship away because Nike would lose money.
> ...


The NBA and Nike both are HUGE monopolies. Although, it never crossed my mind or probably no one else's that Nike would do that, BUT it wouldn't surprise me.

As for Cleveland telling Nike to "kiss their ***", we ALL know that Cleveland needs all of the publicity they can get to even pay Silas, so if Nike doesn't have anything to promote LeBron, then Cleveland gets no pub. No pub for LBJ = no pub for Cleveland, = no NBA jerseys sold = no TV coverage (money for NBA and Cleveland).

So, it is possible that Nike might do this if LeBron is benched. Then again, Nike is so creative, they can probably make an awesome ad on "while the Rookie sits".

But, please keep in mind --- Business FIRST, Entertainment and pure basketball somewhere down the line.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

This is stupid, what can nike do to cavaliers, change NOTHING


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> ... Every vet in the League is gonna want to throw his sh1t.



Maybe ... maybe not. Some Vets might actually WELCOME LaBron. He's a likeable kid, who knows and loves the game and who's style is NOT about him but getting everyone involved. 

I'm sure there are several Vets who are just sick and tired of the same old players that have been hyped over the years and are happy for the change. They also know, that showing up an 18-year old Rookie (like trying to show up a retiring 40 year old Vet) doesn't score them any points with the fans and could possibly tarnish their reputation.

So, I say ... maybe, maybe not. An innocent on-court challenge to teach him some things, probably yes. But, to try and discredit him --- I'm not so sure.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most of us certainly know how childish that looked this year!


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: LeBron James already causing confusion?*



> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> First of all this isn't a big deal if Nike gets mad. What can they do to the Cavs, nothing. Lebron has to play for them for the next 4 years at least. Nike can't do this because this isn't a College where the top player can leave for the pros. He is in the pros and shoe companies can't control anything the pro teams do. They sure won't take sponsorship away because Nike would lose money.
> ...


Exactly and that is my point!


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## W1Z0C0Z (Jun 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> I saw on PTI that LeBron said his loyalty is to Nike, they are his family. Will LeBron cry to Nike and have Nike lean on Silas to give James huge PT, eventhough he'll suck his first year?


Wow, King George not happy with something. Why don't ya just gilitine em? Yeah I know that was stupid... ah well, I'm real bored.

Your just trying to cause trouble, this isn't even really what he said. He said that Nike is his family for another week cause he doesn't have an NBA team officially yet. He said when the Cavs draft them then they will both be his families. 

Ya sound like one of those stupid newspaper people. That take PARTS of quotes instead of really what they are actually saying. Stop being jelous and be happy for the guy.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>drewson</b>!
> YEAR Games FG% 3PT% FT% SPG BPG RPG APG PPG
> Garnett, Kevin 1995-96 80 .491 .286 .705 1.1 1.6 6.3 1.8 10.4
> Bryant, Kobe 1996-97 71 .417 .375 .819 0.7 0.3 1.9 <b>1.3 </b>7.6
> ...


<b>Now - the most important thing you missed is the minutes they played!!! THAT makes a HUGE difference.</b>


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

*Re: You FORGOT One thing ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If he sits he can not sell merchandise.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>drewson</b>!
> 
> 
> First off NO ONE SAID THAT, outside of<strike> the moron who said he would average a triple double</strike>( since we can find out who said that on this thread, it is toooo close to namecalling, which we do NOT allow. )
> ...


Again you keep bringing up physical aspects, and again I say Kobe and T-Mac of today would drop 100 in a half against the comp LeBron played against. The fact that he is/was so much bigger than other high school should diminish the hype around him, since his numbers are comparable to those of Kobe and T-Mac who were much smaller than him at 17/18. LeBron is not ready, I don't care how well he's built psyhically. He's not gonna make much of an impact.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

King George, how can you possibly say LeBron isn't more ready than Kobe and T Mac were coming out of high school? By all accounts he is, and LeBron is already used to the media coverage and pressure of the NBA, no other player coming out of high school can say that. For a good 1 month period LeBron was the most talked about basketball player in the world, he is already one of the 5 most famous ball players, and he hasn't played a game in the NBA yet. 

Somebody said something about him going up against stronger players, LeBron has the physical strength of a football player, there are going to be very few players that guard him who even come close to matching his strength. Also do you guys who think LeBron will flop seriously think he is going to come into the NBA with the same skill level he has right now? He will have a full 4 months to work with NBA personel, and since he picks things up so quickly, his game will take a major step up. I would think after Amare did what he did this year, nobody would doubt LeBron would be a good player this year, but I guess there are still a few who just hope they can be the 1% who said he would fail. Remember Amare wasn't considered the best player in high school last year, Carmelo was ranked over him, and until the end of the year Lenny Cooke was ranked over him. LeBron was considered 1 of the 5 best players as a sophomore.

Bottom Line there is no way he flops.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this you've posted? People are saying he's more physically ready than T-Mac, Kobe etc. Kobe and T-Mac of today would drop 100 points on the players LeBron played against, it's silly to think he will have an impact on the league.


He's more physically ready than they were at this time. Nobody's saying he's better than Kobe and T-Mac are now. Yes those two would drop 100 on high schoolers. They are 2 of the elite playrs in the world. He will have a HUGE impact on the league. Probly more than anybody else in the league next year. Not on the court, but he'll definately have an impact. And why do you think he'll do so horrible? What has made you think this? Cus he's the best player coming out of high school ever. But you think he'll be horrible. Remember that every single American in the league played ****ty people at one time. But most of the ones who did the best are in the league and are great players. Lebron-haters use the fact that he plays against high school kids as a reason why he won't have a good career. Hello people! Everybody plays against them. Why do you think just since one kid is better than everybody else ever was, that he won't be anything then? That doesn't make sense. Nobody with a brain thinks he'll come in and be just as good as he was in hgih school. Nobody would be able to do that. But there's absolutely no reason to think he will not likely have a successful career.



> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> My man, LeBron James is going to have to take 20 shots just to get 14 points. He's not that fleet footed and he can't shoot so his path to the basket with always get stopped and he'll be forced to shoot and he'll miss. Again, you keep bringing up his physical stature, regardless of his size he was playing against high school kids, the NBA is not high school, let T-Mac or Kobe play against the same comp LeBron played against they'd drop 100 in the first half. LeBron James is a bust.


King George, you are kinda crazy. So every player in high school right now, going into college, is a bust? I really doubt that a whole year of basketball players won' have one in their that will have even a decent basketball career. If you think the best guy there is a bust, then I doubt any of the others will even get a chance in the NBA to be a bust. If the best is that bad, this class must really suck. And next year Kobe and T-Mac will be able to school that class of seniors too, so they will ALL be busts. The NBA is done with, since 2 of the ebst in the league can school high schoolers, there is no talent coming up. I'm gonna stop watching basketball now, cus I know for a fact, cus King George :king: told me. 
:no:


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>q</b>!
> 
> 
> He's more physically ready than they were at this time. Nobody's saying he's better than Kobe and T-Mac are now. Yes those two would drop 100 on high schoolers. They are 2 of the elite playrs in the world. He will have a HUGE impact on the league. Probly more than anybody else in the league next year. Not on the court, but he'll definately have an impact. And why do you think he'll do so horrible? What has made you think this? Cus he's the best player coming out of high school ever. But you think he'll be horrible. Remember that every single American in the league played ****ty people at one time. But most of the ones who did the best are in the league and are great players. Lebron-haters use the fact that he plays against high school kids as a reason why he won't have a good career. Hello people! Everybody plays against them. Why do you think just since one kid is better than everybody else ever was, that he won't be anything then? That doesn't make sense. Nobody with a brain thinks he'll come in and be just as good as he was in hgih school. Nobody would be able to do that. But there's absolutely no reason to think he will not likely have a successful career.
> ...


You admit that Kobe and T-Mac would drop 100 in a half on those high schoolers, yet you insist LeBron and his physical frame is ready for the NBA, no way, he only averaged 30, despite being the size of NBA players having the strength of NFL players according to you, something doesn't compute. What elite man athlete can not humiliate a bunch of high schoolers? LeBron James is simply not ready. Amare was 20 when he came to the NBA and still only managed 13 a game playing close to the basket. LeBron will have to shoot 20x to get those 14points. The funny part is some of the high schoolers this year will come into the league 2 -3 years from now and have a better career than LeBron. High School is just that, High School it has nothing to do with the pros. Shaq and Jordan were cut from youth teams/high school teams.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> You admit that Kobe and T-Mac would drop 100 in a half on those high schoolers, yet you insist LeBron and his physical frame is ready for the NBA, no way, he only averaged 30, despite being the size of NBA players having the strength of NFL players according to you, something doesn't compute. What elite man athlete can not humiliate a bunch of high schoolers? LeBron James is simply not ready. Amare was 20 when he came to the NBA and still only managed 13 a game playing close to the basket. LeBron will have to shoot 20x to get those 14points. The funny part is some of the high schoolers this year will come into the league 2 -3 years from now and have a better career than LeBron. High School is just that, High School it has nothing to do with the pros. Shaq and Jordan were cut from youth teams/high school teams.


He's not a good player just because he's strong. His jumpshot isn't horrible, it's not great, but I'm sure he'll improve that, as does every player coming into the draft every year. He has great athletic ability, he gets his head above the rim on some dunks. He has great vision. What makes you think he'll be a bust? Kobe and T-Mac wouldn't drop 100 in a half, but could easily do that in a game. That's not because they're stringer than everybody else, it's because they're better players, more skilled than them. LeBron is the most probly skilled player in the draft. He's not gonna just have a good career cus of his strength. The only player to ever do that is Shaq, but I doubt LeBron ill be the next Shaq. He's a PG that is 6'8" and 240lbs. He's got great size and great skill. So why will he be a bust? What part of his game has made you think this.I'd really like to know, because I don't see anything that would make me say he'll be a bust. Nobody expects him to compete with T-Mac and Kobe right away, nobody can do that. If the reason he's gonna be a bust is cus he played against people that 2 of the best players in the world could school, then you have no argument. Kobe and T-Mac would light up any amateurs anywhere. That doesn't mean all amateurs will be busts. And remember that LeBron played a hard schedule too. He didn't play little schools, they traveled across the country to play the elite high school teams. What else could he do to make you think he won't be a flop?


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## BigGameJames (May 27, 2003)

I love how people like King George and Jim Rome complain and ***** about LeBron having only played against "pimple faced 5-10 white boys." This could not be further from the truth. As said earlier in this thread, everybody at one point had only played against high school players. The difference is LeBron James didn't just play his school's regular high school schedule like all the others. He toured the nation playing against the best high school teams and players. He only played who they put in front of him (and was not defeated one time). King George, have you ever seen LeBron James play? I'm not talking about his ESPN performances either because my honest opinion is that he played very poorly in the second televised contest. Have you ever seen him play live? I'm not talking about the hype or what you have heard. I, nor anyone else who has seen the man, have ever seen someone as good as him be as unselfish as he is. In a 32 minute game it would be very hard for Kobe or Tracy to even get up 50 shots by the way, let alone in a 16 minute half.   LeBron dominated every single game he played in. He could have easily averaged 50 ppg this year if he had not been setting up his teammates time and time again.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>q</b>!
> King George, you are kinda crazy. So every player in high school right now, going into college, is a bust? I really doubt that a whole year of basketball players won' have one in their that will have even a decent basketball career. If you think the best guy there is a bust, then I doubt any of the others will even get a chance in the NBA to be a bust. If the best is that bad, this class must really suck. And next year Kobe and T-Mac will be able to school that class of seniors too, so they will ALL be busts. The NBA is done with, since 2 of the ebst in the league can school high schoolers, there is no talent coming up. I'm gonna stop watching basketball now, cus I know for a fact, cus King George :king: told me.
> :no:


I often shake my head at people who label someone a bust even before they have a chance to prove themselves:no: . So I will shake my head at King George and many others that have done so. Lebron is the best HS player I have ever seen and that includes Kobe and KG. Of course Kobe and TMac would score 100 points on Lebron's coompetition now but they never even came close while they were in HS. If you say that I can also say that Lebron can score 100 points against an elementary school team (that is Grades 6 to 8 at least in Canada). Therefore, that argument is rendered useless by logic and reason alone. No one can win with that type of argument. 

To me you cannot judge a player or label him a bust until at least 4 seasons and even that is not definite. That is why I don't get all the bust talk about Kwame in just TWO seasons. Sure his first two seasons are quite disappointing but so were HS players such as TMac and JO who were also labeled as "busts" after their first two seasons...now they are amongst the elite players in the NBA. So it is even WORSE assumption to do so after or before their rookie season. King George is right on one thing...Lebron will most likely not post allstar numbers in his rookie season but every knowledgable person knows that but that does not mean he cannot be impact. Amare didn't post allstar numbers but he was clearly very impact to his team. I can see the same happening with Lebron. Also keep in mind that the media is a game of love and hate...those feelings often interchange every day. I can guarantee you that if Lebron does not play up to expectations to the media they will hound him but when he does they will love him and act like they never said a single bad thing...AKA Kobe Bryant. Therefore don't buy into all the media crap. Listen to it with skeptism that is what any logical person would and should do. That is why barring all the "hype" Lebron is INDEED a very special player. He IS a better player at this stage than Kobe or TMac. He wasn't as dominant as KG the more I think about it but he is definitely MORE skilled and I mean MORE. His skills and talent are incredible on a basketball level. Mix that with his intangibles and you willl see his POTENTIAL. Don't take the media too seriously...hell many of them say that Lebron will score 20 ppg in his rookie season. Although it is possible...it is also unlikely to happen. Most knowledgable and logical people...at least IMO...who praise Lebron as a basketball player like myself NEVER say or have said that Lebron WILL be one of the greatest but that he "could" and has the "potential" to be...there is never 100% certainty not even with MJ or Shaq. NOBODY. That is why you should not call him a bust either...uncertainty. So let's just leave this argument at this...Lebron IS a great talent...regarded as many as the most skilled and definitely most heralded player out of HS since Alcindor and could be a once in a decade caliber type of player who has the potential to become something great...NOBODY SHOULD EVER judge him as either a bust OR a sure HOF until at least 4 complete seasons...WHY? because if we do we might end up EATING OUR OWN WORDS. :uhoh: 

As for the argument of the original post...I think that Nike has taken a chance on Lebron because they see his potential. What they say or how they will market Lebron will effect the Cleveland organization because it effects both of their revenue...it is an economical relationship...BUT that does not mean that they will control it. They have no say about how much Lebron should play or what role he should play. Their only responsibility concerning Lebron is how they will market him according to their Nike product. They represent Lebron NOT the orgainzation. It is the Cleveland organization that controls how much and what role Lebron should play. More accurately IT IS Lebron who will have the most control because if he works hard and becomes the player he could be he will get substantial PT and more importantly PRODUCE. If he does that both organizations...Nike and the Cavaliers AND Lebron...will benefit financially and mutually. It is definitely an interesting argument and view as evident by the situation that continues to spurn such rumours not only with Lebron but basically every big Nike signee...the ever so infamous Nike vs. Ronaldo incident. But remember it was ultimately Ronaldo's choice to play regardless of whether he or his club was influenced by Nike or not. The same will be with Lebron. It is ultimately his choice on how hard he will work because like I said if he does work hard and becomes the player he can be Lebron will get his PT. If he does and produces accordingly all three parties will then finally be satified.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> I often shake my head at people who label someone a bust even before they have a chance to prove themselves:no: . So I will shake my head at King George and many others that have done so. Lebron is the best HS player I have ever seen and that includes Kobe and KG. Of course Kobe and TMac would score 100 points on Lebron's coompetition now but they never even came close while they were in HS. If you say that I can also say that Lebron can score 100 points against an elementary school team (that is Grades 6 to 8 at least in Canada). Therefore, that argument is rendered useless by logic and reason alone. No one can win with that type of argument.
> ...


Uh, I don't think it's possible to be more right on than that. Great post.


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## drewson (May 19, 2003)

Seriously, its not like they played nothing but 5'9" pencil-necked white guys every game, they traveled around the country and played the top high school teams in the country, like Oak Hill.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*bball_doctor*

You are good!

<b>"...NOBODY SHOULD EVER judge him as either a bust OR a sure HOF until at least 4 complete seasons...WHY? because if we do we might end up EATING OUR OWN WORDS. "</b>


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>q</b>!
> 
> And remember that LeBron played a hard schedule too. He didn't play little schools, they traveled across the country to play the elite high school teams. What else could he do to make you think he won't be a flop?


Actually he didn't. Those rankings are BS and thats the truth. How can you call a certain school the best in the country when they haven't played every school in the country and how can you have the so called undisputed best player in the country and not have the #1 team in the country? Exactly! Rankings are political bs nothing more.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> I often shake my head at people who label someone a bust even before they have a chance to prove themselves:no: . So I will shake my head at King George and many others that have done so. Lebron is the best HS player I have ever seen and that includes Kobe and KG. Of course Kobe and TMac would score 100 points on Lebron's coompetition now but they never even came close while they were in HS. If you say that I can also say that Lebron can score 100 points against an elementary school team (that is Grades 6 to 8 at least in Canada). Therefore, that argument is rendered useless by logic and reason alone. No one can win with that type of argument.
> ...


100points is not that difficult Dajaun Wagner did it and so have a few others, infact a female player dropped 100 in the first half and the team refused to play the second half. Not only are T-Mac and Kobe better offensive players than LeBron they are also better defenders which will give them the opportunity to rip and run and infact score 100 in the first half, not to mention it wouldn't take more than 10seconds to make a basket against these "geeks". You can say you want difference is elementary school kids aren't jumping to the NBA and being hailed as the second coming and being chosen over proven players. That's the issue.

My man you talk about the media, yet you are no better than them,or me. You say "LeBRon is the best high school baller I've ever seen, which may be true, but that in no way makes him the best High schooler ever, simply because you haven't been privy to every high schooler ever. So you have no argument. LeBRon James is just taht hype. He will eb a failure of collosal proportions and I will sit back and laugh my *** off.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually he didn't. Those rankings are BS and thats the truth. How can you call a certain school the best in the country when they haven't played every school in the country and how can you have the so called undisputed best player in the country and not have the #1 team in the country? Exactly! Rankings are political bs nothing more.


:laugh: 

Ok so in college basketball as of right now, Syracuse isn't the best team because they didn't play every single college in the country even though they won the NCAA championship over a very good Kansas team? Rankings aren't BS. It's impossible to play ever school in the country in one basketball season. You can easily have the best player in the country and not the best team. Carmelo Anthony is arguably the best player in college basketball, but Syracuse wasn't the number 1 team until the very end of the year.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> 100points is not that difficult Dajaun Wagner did it and so have a few others, infact a female player dropped 100 in the first half and the team refused to play the second half. Not only are T-Mac and Kobe better offensive players than LeBron they are also better defenders which will give them the opportunity to rip and run and infact score 100 in the first half, not to mention it wouldn't take more than 10seconds to make a basket against these "geeks". You can say you want difference is elementary school kids aren't jumping to the NBA and being hailed as the second coming and being chosen over proven players. That's the issue.
> ...


Have you seen Kobe and TMac in HS? They are not better than Lebron at the same stage. Lebron is the best HS player I have seen and that is barring all the media assumption. It is RIDICULOUS to say someone is a bust before they even step foot into the league. 100 points IS HARD and has only been done a handful number of times....to say it isn't so is lack of intelligence. OF COURSE Kobe and TMac would score 100 NOW but when they were in HS they NEVER came close to EVER doing so. That argument is not logical and shows your lack of reason. How am I not better than the media? Lebron is the best HS player I have ever seen and that is consensus by many experts. Therefore we are all wrong and you are right. OK. Lebron has A LOT of merit to his hype. You don't get hype without MERIT. OF course the hype has fueled his exposure the same as Michael Grant (a boxer) but the difference is that Lebron's hype HAS MERIT. And most experts barring the hype see him as a player with unusual potential. Lebron is a great talent and anyone who is so easily to call him a bust is just another "hater". Only Lebron can decide whether or not he is a bust. As an NBA fan you should hope that Lebron is the player he is projected to be...WHY....better talent = better product. Anyone that wishes negatively on another person has to check their own character. So don't call him a bust as with numerous other people before he actually steps into the league becuz many of those people have been proven wrong before. I am not saying that Lebron cannot be but it is absurd to call him one now. What is even worse is wishing or hoping that he could be one....that doesn't say a lot about your character:uhoh: .


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

To add I never said he is the best HS player EVER...I said he is the best I have ever seen.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> ...


1. Carmelo Anthony was NEVER the undisputed best player in college basketball, so again you are wrong.

2. Syracuse played in a NATIONAL tournament, not a state tournament and they won the most prestiges prize in College basketball, does that mean they are the best? Absolutely not. It means they won a tournament and are the National Champs which is often confused with having the best team. Rankings are BS.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> 1. Carmelo Anthony was NEVER the undisputed best player in college basketball, so again you are wrong.
> ...


Well it seems Carmelo is the best player in college right now. A freshman who leads his team to the NCAA championship and is the 3rd pick in the NBA draft (supposedly, behind Darko and LeBron) sounds to me like the best player in college right now to me.

I also find it funny how you keep going on with this. Nearly the whole site is against you.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> Have you seen Kobe and TMac in HS? They are not better than Lebron at the same stage. Lebron is the best HS player I have seen and that is barring all the media assumption. It is RIDICULOUS to say someone is a bust before they even step foot into the league. 100 points IS HARD and has only been done a handful number of times....to say it isn't so is lack of intelligence. OF COURSE Kobe and TMac would score 100 NOW but when they were in HS they NEVER came close to EVER doing so. That argument is not logical and shows your lack of reason. How am I not better than the media? Lebron is the best HS player I have ever seen and that is consensus by many experts. Therefore we are all wrong and you are right. OK. Lebron has A LOT of merit to his hype. You don't get hype without MERIT. OF course the hype has fueled his exposure the same as Michael Grant (a boxer) but the difference is that Lebron's hype HAS MERIT. And most experts barring the hype see him as a player with unusual potential. Lebron is a great talent and anyone who is so easily to call him a bust is just another "hater". Only Lebron can decide whether or not he is a bust. As an NBA fan you should hope that Lebron is the player he is projected to be...WHY....better talent = better product. Anyone that wishes negatively on another person has to check their own character. So don't call him a bust as with numerous other people before he actually steps into the league becuz many of those people have been proven wrong before. I am not saying that Lebron cannot be but it is absurd to call him one now. What is even worse is wishing or hoping that he could be one....that doesn't say a lot about your character:uhoh: .


I've seen Kobe, not T-Mac, LeBron is not better than Kobe was. More hyped? hell yeah. Better? Absolutely not. Bigger? Yes. Better? No. My man how can you claim LeBron is so much better than T-Mac and Kobe at 18, when their High School numbers are very comparable to his, despite not having his physical size and according to you his skill level? If anyone has flawed logic it's you. LeBron is a bust, period. and thats not "hate" that's being real.


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> I've seen Kobe, not T-Mac, LeBron is not better than Kobe was. More hyped? hell yeah. Better? Absolutely not. Bigger? Yes. Better? No. My man how can you claim LeBron is so much better than T-Mac and Kobe at 18, when their High School numbers are very comparable to his, despite not having his physical size and according to you his skill level? If anyone has flawed logic it's you. LeBron is a bust, period. and thats not "hate" that's being real.


lmfao so being slightly below kobe is beign a bust, and u so ur thinking logically. I know ur going 2 say but comparign 2 the hype its a bust, no 1 that good is a bust no matter what kind of hype they get.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> I've seen Kobe, not T-Mac, LeBron is not better than Kobe was. More hyped? hell yeah. Better? Absolutely not. Bigger? Yes. Better? No. My man how can you claim LeBron is so much better than T-Mac and Kobe at 18, when their High School numbers are very comparable to his, despite not having his physical size and according to you his skill level? If anyone has flawed logic it's you. LeBron is a bust, period. and thats not "hate" that's being real.


This is illogical...basketball is more than stats. Look at skills, potentials, and intagibles first. Any pro scout or GM will tell you that. James Robinson put up better offensive stats than any of them. Zendon Hamilton put up HS stats as good as Amare...where are they now? Lebron is better than Kobe at the same age because he has more skills and intangibles...that is the truth. Ask any expert and they will tell you the same. This argument is useless because I give you credit you are loyal to your word... but my MAIN POINT is don't label ANY player as a bust especially BEFORE they play in the league. To do so is to act without any logic or reason. End of my argument...waste of my time.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> I've seen Kobe, not T-Mac, LeBron is not better than Kobe was. More hyped? hell yeah. Better? Absolutely not. Bigger? Yes. Better? No. My man how can you claim LeBron is so much better than T-Mac and Kobe at 18, when their High School numbers are very comparable to his, despite not having his physical size and according to you his skill level? If anyone has flawed logic it's you. LeBron is a bust, period. and thats not "hate" that's being real.


Well, "my man", Bball Doctor is easily one of the more respected posters at this site, and believe me, you're the one with the flawed logic. :laugh: So far, you're the only one to disagree with him, everyone else that has read his posts have agreed with him. And I also find it funny how you say he's the that has flawed logic, then you say LeBron is a bust, and he hasn't even begun his NBA career. :laugh:


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Well it seems Carmelo is the best player in college right now. A freshman who leads his team to the NCAA championship and is the 3rd pick in the NBA draft (supposedly, behind Darko and LeBron) sounds to me like the best player in college right now to me.
> ...


In case you haven't noticed the NBA Draft these days is not about who's the best at the moment, it's about who has the potential to be a great. It's ridiculous. The NBA Draft has become a complete joke. 

I don't care. My opinion is not going to change because someone disagrees.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, "my man", Bball Doctor is easily one of the more respected posters at this site, and believe me, you're the one with the flawed logic. :laugh: So far, you're the only one to disagree with him, everyone else that has read his posts have agreed with him. And I also find it funny how you say he's the that has flawed logic, then you say LeBron is a bust, and he hasn't even begun his NBA career. :laugh:


I don't care if he's respected or not. If I disagree I'm going to say so. My logic is not flawed. Simply how can you say LeBron is a "man" amongst boys, he's so much stronger and skilled than this one and that one, yet say he will need to have time to develop like Kobe and T-Mac, why? You already claim he's more skilled than they were at 18, he's already stronger and has a much larger frame than they did at 18. SO how can you give him the same curve? He needs to produce immediately and he simply will not, therefore he's a bust. 

At 19 which LeBron will be when the better part of the reason rolls around Kobe averaged 15.4ppg 3.1rpg 2.5apg in 26minutes

T-Mac at 19 9.3ppg 5.7rpg 2.3apg in 22minutes

If he's so much better than those two were at 19, he has to dwarf those numbers and he simply wont.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually he didn't. Those rankings are BS and thats the truth. How can you call a certain school the best in the country when they haven't played every school in the country and how can you have the so called undisputed best player in the country and not have the #1 team in the country? Exactly! Rankings are political bs nothing more.


Uh, What? I'm sorry to say it, but <strike><b>you </b>are getting stupider as we go on. </strike>(Do NOT call another poster "stupid".thanks. trm)

He is likely the best high schooler ever. Just because we can't say that for sure doesn't mean he's gonna be a bust. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Your reasons for him being a bust is that he's not as good as Kobe and T-Mac. Let me ask you something. Has there ever been an 18 year old anywhere close to being able to compete with Kobe and T-Mac of today? No. That doesn't mean every player in the history of the world went on to be busts. Just cus a teenager isn't one of the top 10 players in the world doesn't mean he's gonna be a horrible player. That's competely stupid.

You say Kobe was better back then than LeBron is now. For one, no. And even if he was, how can you measure that as being a bust. If he's not as good as one of the best than he's horrible? 



> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't care if he's respected or not. If I disagree I'm going to say so. My logic is not flawed. Simply how can you say LeBron is a "man" amongst boys, he's so much stronger and skilled than this one and that one, yet say he will need to have time to develop like Kobe and T-Mac, why? You already claim he's more skilled than they were at 18, he's already stronger and has a much larger frame than they did at 18. SO how can you give him the same curve? He needs to produce immediately and he simply will not, therefore he's a bust.
> ...


He is stronger and better than they were, that doesn't mean he will take absolutely no time to adjust to the NBA game. It took Kobe and T-Mac a while, and it will take LeBron a while too. How can you say that he simply will not produce. *Again as I've said before, what part of his game makes you think this?*

<b><strike>I don't like to say this, but King George, you are a stupid retard.</strike></b>(Warning: this is NOT allowed! trm)


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## ZigZag (Jun 12, 2003)

Lebron went against top high school players and had to face the top high schools in the nation. Im from cleveland and I watched soem of his games and everyone time he touche dteh ball he would be constantly double and triple teamed and still manage to score 30 ppg. Im not sure of Kobe and T-mac had to face taht much competition in high school.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't care if he's respected or not. If I disagree I'm going to say so. My logic is not flawed. Simply how can you say LeBron is a "man" amongst boys, he's so much stronger and skilled than this one and that one, yet say he will need to have time to develop like Kobe and T-Mac, why? You already claim he's more skilled than they were at 18, he's already stronger and has a much larger frame than they did at 18. SO how can you give him the same curve? He needs to produce immediately and he simply will not, therefore he's a bust.
> ...


I already claimed he was more skilled than Kobe or T-Mac at 18? Wow show me where I said this. How do you know he won't produce immediatley? Again, you're not being logical at all.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

Also I said he MIGHT be a "Kobe-case" where it will take him 3 or so years to adapt to the NBA OR an "Amare-case" where he will adapt well and fast to the NBA in his rookie year. Either way, the most he could do as an individual player this year, however, is win Rookie of the Year and possibly be a super-star later in his career.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

FACT: LeBron put up 50 points against 6'7" top UCLA recruit Trevor Ariza in 25 minutes. Look at the schedule and tell me how many 5'9 pimply white kids guarded him.

Okay, let's just fault him for being muscular. Let's just tell him that he'll bust because he worked his *** off to be ready for the NBA. Do you honestly think that he put on that weight so he could dominate high school? He was dominating high school since late in his freshman season when he was a 195 pound stick. He worked his *** off and gained 50 pounds of muscle, and there are still doubters out there.

* By the way, why would being pimply make your basketball skills worse? Why can't they just say 5'9 white kids?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>drewson</b>!
> YEAR Games FG% 3PT% FT% SPG BPG RPG APG PPG
> Garnett, Kevin 1995-96 80 .491 .286 .705 1.1 1.6 6.3 1.8 10.4
> Bryant, Kobe 1996-97 71 .417 .375 .819 0.7 0.3 1.9 1.3 7.6
> ...



Why are you comparing his High School line to their Pro lines?


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

King George you are way off based with your assesment of LeBron, and you logic behind it is the worst I have ever heard. Prior to this the worst reasoning was LeBron was playing against high school kids so he's not as good as people think, but saying he is going to be a bust because he isn't as good as 2 of the 5 best players in the world, is just plain awful logic. 

If you go by stats to judge a player in high school, than Dajuan Wagner is better than all 3 of them, he averaged 43 points a game his senior year and 35 his sophomore year. Also Kobe and T Mac didn't play the tough schedule that LeBron went up against. Just because the rankings are 100% ranking doesn't mean they are BS, nor does it mean the teams he played against weren't good, simply because in your opinion the rankings were BS. The fact LeBron played so well under media scrutiny NBA players don't even go through tells you he is ready for the league. If you saw the game he had against Westchester (CA) who features 6'8 220 Trevor Ariza who was a McDonald's All-American you would not be doubting LeBron. He scored 50 and didnt play the last 3 minutes, and when he went out he was beating their entire team by 8, he had 30 in the first half and looked like a true pro. 

Also your little thing about Kobe and T Mac being able to score 100 in a half in high school, is way off, think about it thats 16 minutes, nobody can do that in men's basketball. Lisa Leslie did it against 5'8 girls, while she was 6'6 and athletic. Also just because Kobe and T Mac would put up a lot of points, doesn't mean the middle of the pack players in the NBA would. The middle of the pack players would put up #s that would resemble LeBron's, and nobody is saying LeBron is going to be the best player in the league next year, he is going to be in the middle of the pack, and for a 19 year old that is great. And when looking at Kobe's #s remember he had no pressure on him at 19, that was Shaq's team, Cleveland is already LeBron's team and he hasn't even signed a contract yet.

Once again your point about LeBron needing 20 shots to get 14 points is one of the worst statements I have ever heard. If I got 20 shots I would be able to get 14 points. Think about it if a guard takes 20 shots and has a horrible game he will make about 5, and probably 1 3, and a few fts, so right there his 15 points. So your basically saying LeBron would have to play horrible every game just to get 14 a game, lol, thats a joke. LeBron won't take 20 shots a game, he'll take somewhere between 13 and 15, and he'll score about 16 points a game. He is too talented to fail, and remember he has already spent time playing against NBA players, in Micheal Jordan's summer camp the summer before Mike came back for the second time, they said LeBron was the 2nd best player at the camp behind Penny, and all the rest of the players except LeBron were NBA players.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

This is were Bill Fitch stands on Lebron James and I agree totally.

This Cat speaks the TRUTH


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

I'm shocked at the immaturity on these boards. People catching feelings because someone says LeBron James is a bust? Face it people he's a bust. I just love how he's so much more prepared than Kobe and T-Mac were, yet he's not gonna dominate right away and will need 3years aka till he's 22 the age of a 4 year college senior,if that's the case then he's not more skilled or prepared then they were. He's all hype. Amare Stoudemire was also an older guy he's 20 years old already, 21 before the end of next season and he wasn't really rookie of the year in my eyes Caron Butler deserved it more

[email protected] top UCLA prospect. UCLA hasn't had a top prospect in 30 years.

[email protected] Fitch one of the worst coaches ever. Yeah he knows talent. Give me a break.

Someone should archive this thread for this time next year when LeBron James has failed miserably and was outshined by atleast 5 of his draft day peers.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

I never said it is going to take him 3 years to be a good player in the league, he'll be middle of the pack his first year, and will be an all-star his second year. By his 3rd year he'll be an all-nba player. Kobe improved dramatically from his rookie year to his 3rd year, so it will be hard for LeBron to be better than that in his 3rd year, but his rookie year and his second year he will have better seasons then Kobe had.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> I'm shocked at the immaturity on these boards. People catching feelings because someone says LeBron James is a bust? Face it people he's a bust. I just love how he's so much more prepared than Kobe and T-Mac were, yet he's not gonna dominate right away and will need 3years aka till he's 22 the age of a 4 year college senior,if that's the case then he's not more skilled or prepared then they were. He's all hype. Amare Stoudemire was also an older guy he's 20 years old already, 21 before the end of next season and he wasn't really rookie of the year in my eyes Caron Butler deserved it more
> 
> [email protected] top UCLA prospect. UCLA hasn't had a top prospect in 30 years.
> ...


How can you possibly call him a bust before he's even played, or even been in the league or had an opportunity to be in the league. Everything he's every done has been basically the opposite of a bust, yet you already proclaim him as a bust. He has to do bad or not play to be a bust, and he hasn't had that opportunity. No rookie will ever dominate right away. He IS more ready than T-Mac and Kobe. That doesn't mean he'll be an all-star(even though he will be, because it's based on fan voting) the 1st year. Every rookie takes some time. Nobody knows how long it will take him, but every single sign says that it likely will happen and he won't be a bust.

This is at least the 3rd or 4th time I've asked you this, *What has LeBron done to make you think he will be or already is a bust?* He's done everything right. Most young kids would have something wrong with them, a ball-hog, small, off-the-court troubles, and so on, but LeBron has none. So why is he a bust already? There's nothing he has done that was bust-like. He dominated the best competition he could possibly face. Actually I'm wrong there, he coulda went to Europe, but then you'd be hating on him cus he didn't even finish High School. Face it, he's done everythign right so far. You can say that he WILL be a bust, not that he is a bust, and give reasons for it. But you need to predict he will be a bust, not say he is already because he hasn't had the opportunity to be considered by even the stupidest people as a bust or not. And you need some reasons why he would be a bust. Not because he played against high schoolers. Cus so has every American in the game today, and they're not all busts. What makes him unique from players that have had success that would make him a bust? I'd really like to know.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> I never said it is going to take him 3 years to be a good player in the league, he'll be middle of the pack his first year, and will be an all-star his second year. By his 3rd year he'll be an all-nba player. Kobe improved dramatically from his rookie year to his 3rd year, so it will be hard for LeBron to be better than that in his 3rd year, but his rookie year and his second year he will have better seasons then Kobe had.


LeBron will not be "middle of the pack" will will be bringing up the rear. So what if he's an All-Star? That just proves he's popular, not good. He'll be an All-Star this season despite sucking this season. If he's lucky he'll make all nba in 10 years when Kobe, T-Mac, Iverson, Pierce, Garnett, Duncan, J. O'Neal, Parker, Marbury have retired. He'll score more points and start more games and play more minutes than Kobe's rookie year, but he will not match Kobe's output and second year he'll be far less advance than Kobe, despite being a year older than what Kobe was in his second year. LeBron is pretty much already the same age as Kobe was in his second season.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>q</b>!
> 
> How can you possibly call him a bust before he's even played, or even been in the league or had an opportunity to be in the league. Everything he's every done has been basically the opposite of a bust, yet you already proclaim him as a bust. He has to do bad or not play to be a bust, and he hasn't had that opportunity. No rookie will ever dominate right away. He IS more ready than T-Mac and Kobe. That doesn't mean he'll be an all-star(even though he will be, because it's based on fan voting) the 1st year. Every rookie takes some time. Nobody knows how long it will take him, but every single sign says that it likely will happen and he won't be a bust.
> 
> This is at least the 3rd or 4th time I've asked you this, *What has LeBron done to make you think he will be or already is a bust?* He's done everything right. Most young kids would have something wrong with them, a ball-hog, small, off-the-court troubles, and so on, but LeBron has none. So why is he a bust already? There's nothing he has done that was bust-like. He dominated the best competition he could possibly face. Actually I'm wrong there, he coulda went to Europe, but then you'd be hating on him cus he didn't even finish High School. Face it, he's done everythign right so far. You can say that he WILL be a bust, not that he is a bust, and give reasons for it. But you need to predict he will be a bust, not say he is already because he hasn't had the opportunity to be considered by even the stupidest people as a bust or not. And you need some reasons why he would be a bust. Not because he played against high schoolers. Cus so has every American in the game today, and they're not all busts. What makes him unique from players that have had success that would make him a bust? I'd really like to know.


If he's more ready than T-Mac and Kobe, he should dominate right away, but the fact is he isn't and he won't. He already the age they were in their second season. LeBron James will be a bust. He'll stick around the league forever because some dumb GM will keep saying this is the year he'll bloom and sadly that year will never come, he has reached his potential.

He's a bust because he simply can not live up to the hype. He's not going to be better than Kobe or T-Mac and he's definately not going to be better than Jordan. I see him being a Nick Anderson type player. LeBron James is a bust! Dominating high schoolers does not impress me, especially when you are twice their size.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> If he's more ready than T-Mac and Kobe, he should dominate right away, but the fact is he isn't and he won't. He already the age they were in their second season. LeBron James will be a bust. He'll stick around the league forever because some dumb GM will keep saying this is the year he'll bloom and sadly that year will never come, he has reached his potential.
> ...


You still have no reason as to why you say he won't. Why won't he live up to the hype? Why won't he be better than Kobe or T-Mac?


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>q</b>!
> 
> This is at least the 3rd or 4th time I've asked you this, *What has LeBron done to make you think he will be or already is a bust?*


He has no reason, he just wants to be the person that said LeBron will be an awful player, and if by some act of God it does happen he can say he knew it all along. But any person thinking straight and looks at a players skills and talents when judging them, knows LeBron is going to be a great NBA player. 

Here are LeBron's pros:
-freakish athleticism
-great court vision
-very strong
-at his best when being criticized ( his two 50 point games this year came the very next game after the Hummer thing and the throwback jersey situation)
-media coverage will be nothing new to him

cons:
-inconsistant shooter (he did hit 10 3s in a game this year)
-hasn't played man to man defense much
-handle is a little bit shaky IMO (most people think he has a great handle, but to me it seems a smaller player would pick his pocket often) 

I think by next season his jumper will be much more consistant because he will be working on it with NBA personel, and he will lilkely sure up his handle, as far as defense goes he may end up being a liability. But being a defensive liablity at 19 years old doesn't make him the worst player in the league, as it seems King George is saying he will be.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> You still have no reason as to why you say he won't. Why won't he live up to the hype? Why won't he be better than Kobe or T-Mac?


1. He's peaked physically. He can't add anymore mass

2. He's been given the world without having to earn it, so what does he have to prove?

3. This is the NBA, not high school. Nobody cares what he did in High School.

4. He'll be the hunted and he will be "killed".


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> 1. He's peaked physically. He can't add anymore mass
> ...


How do you know he's peaked physically?

What does he have to prove? That he can play in the NBA. He also has something else to prove, that people like you are wrong. Of course nobody cares what he did in high school. Did anyone really care what Kobe or T-Mac did in high school? Not really, and now they're among the NBA's best players. Yeah, he will be the hunted, but that goes along with your number 2 "reason". He wants to prove he's just as good as any other NBA player.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

Kobe is not Lebron and Lebron definitely aint Kobe, so cut all that out. He is not more ready than anyone coming in the NBA because no player is ready to play professionally at the NBA level if they haven't experienced it before. Just because he is muscular doesn't mean he is more or less ready than the next person(ex. Donnell Harvey). So no more BS posts.


> he was more skilled than Kobe or T-Mac at 18





> "Kobe-case" where it will take him 3 or so years to adapt to the NBA





> Kobe improved dramatically from his rookie year to his 3rd year, so it will be hard for LeBron to be better than that in his 3rd year, but his rookie year and his second year he will have better seasons then Kobe had.


 ^^^:laugh: 


> He'll be an All-Star this season despite sucking this season.





> So to break it down, he is more physically ready to enter the nba than kobe and t-mac were. Is anyone going to dispute that? He's 245lbs at 6% bf.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> He has no reason, he just wants to be the person that said LeBron will be an awful player, and if by some act of God it does happen he can say he knew it all along. But any person thinking straight and looks at a players skills and talents when judging them, knows LeBron is going to be a great NBA player.
> ...


Nope. He's just not gonna develop.

[email protected] "pros"

He's no more athletic than anyone else in the NBA.

his court vision is overrated. See how good his vision is when he averages 7TO's a game.

Oh please. 

Media coverage won't be new to him but bad press will be when he doesn't perform like he's expected to and he won't. He's also not used to being the low man on the totem pole and thats excatly what he'll be in the NBA. he's not ready.

Never said he'll be the worst player, just saying he won't be anything close to being the best player in the league at anytime during his career, tehrefore he will be a bust, since he's being heralded as the second coming.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Nope. He's just not gonna develop.
> ...


There you go again. How do you know he just won't develop? How do you know he'll be the "low man on the totem pole" in the NBA? I know he won't be the second coming but I don't think he will be a bust.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> How do you know he's peaked physically?
> ...


I don't but it wouldn't be wise for him to put on anymore mass, he can't shoot as it is, adding more mass will make his shot that much worst and seeing as how he's not used to playing on the blocks he will get abused no matetr how much muscle he has.

He's already in the NBA and already starting. He don't care about people like me. He's there and I'm online, thats what he says about people "like me". Kobe and T-Mac had a lot to prove and still do. He'll be good as Stephen Jackson, he won't be an elite player though.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't but it wouldn't be wise for him to put on anymore mass, he can't shoot as it is, adding more mass will make his shot that much worst and seeing as how he's not used to playing on the blocks he will get abused no matetr how much muscle he has.
> ...


How do you know he "don't care" about people like you? How do you know he can't shoot? Honestly, if you've seen one of his games live in person, then tell me now (seriously), then I'll believe your word on him not being able to shoot. He has a lot to prove. It's people like you, the nay-sayers, that he wants to DIS-prove. And to do that, he'll have to give it everything he's got.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Nope. He's just not gonna develop.
> ...


7 tos a game, lol, if he was turing the ball over that much he would be on the bench, and would never get a chance to average 7 a game. Saying LeBron is no more athletic than anyone else in the NBA, is just as bad as your logic as to why he will be a bust. LeBron gets his eyes to the rim, how many players have you seen do that? Kobe can't, T Mac can't, I never saw Vince do it, Stevie might be able to do it, but I'm not sure. There is no way he lives up to all they hype, but there is also no way he becomes a player that hurts his team.

The only valid point you gave for him being a bust is the fact that he already has more than 100 million dollars lined up, so he has basically been given the World. But LeBron is a competitor and he won't want to be the most hyped amateur athlete ever and become the next Nick Anderson. The fact that LeBron has peaked physically is a good thing, most players spend a lot of time trying to adjust to their new size and strenght once they get to the NBA, there will be no adjusting for LeBron.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

How can LeBron be the low man on the totem pole? I know tallent, size and athleticism only get you so far, but it gets you somewhere. He won't be an all-star as a rookie, but he'll be pretty good. Probably will be up there with Amare as having the best seasons as a high schooler entering the league.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> Kobe is not Lebron and Lebron definitely aint Kobe, so cut all that out. He is not more ready than anyone coming in the NBA because <b>no player is ready to play professionally at the NBA level if they haven't experienced it before. </b>Just because he is muscular doesn't mean he is more or less ready than the next person(ex. Donnell Harvey). So no more BS posts.
> 
> ^^^:laugh:


That simply is not true. 

Larry Bird posted 21 PPg as a rookie along with 10 1/2 rebounds and 3 1/2 assists. <font color=green>With him being the ONLY addition to his team, they went from 29 wins to 61 wins and the eastern conference finals </font>against Dr. J and his 6ers! That is IMPACT and immediate impact!

Magic Johnson? Should I list his awesome accomplishments the first year for him?

Wilt?

Bill Russell?

Jordan?

Kareem?

Elvin Hayes?

Oscar?


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> How do you know he "don't care" about people like you? How do you know he can't shoot? Honestly, if you've seen one of his games live in person, then tell me now (seriously), then I'll believe your word on him not being able to shoot. He has a lot to prove. It's people like you, the nay-sayers, that he wants to DIS-prove. And to do that, he'll have to give it everything he's got.


Because I know. I've seen him play and he couldn't throw a beachball in the ocean.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Because I know. I've seen him play and he couldn't throw a beachball in the ocean.


Because you know? Great reason! :laugh: 

It's the people like you he wants to dis-prove. He's got something to prove and he will do all he can to prove it. Too bad the only reason you have for thinking he has nothing to prove is that "you know". :laugh:


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> That simply is not true.
> ...


You forgot the ultimate example the only rookie to win MVP Wes Unseld, but I guess he wasn't ready for the NBA. Plenty of players are ready for the NBA as rookies, just because they haven't played yet doesn't mean they aren't ready for the pressure. It is true a lot of players aren't, but those players who embrace the pressure (all the true greats do) do well as rookies, some do very well. From his high school career it seems the pressure will be nothing for him. I only point to the pressure because this thread is about LeBron, and he clearly has the skills to compete with the best in the world.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't but it wouldn't be wise for him to put on anymore mass, he can't shoot as it is, adding more mass will make his shot that much worst and seeing as how he's not used to playing on the blocks he will get abused no matetr how much muscle he has.
> ...



Whatever does that have to do with his basketball skills and BBall IQ???


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> How can LeBron be the low man on the totem pole? I know tallent, size and athleticism only gets you so far, but it gets you somewhere. He won't be an all-star as a rookie, but he'll be pretty good. Probably will be up there with Amare as having the best seasons as a high schooler entering the league.


He will be an all-star as a rookie, undeserved but he will make the All-Star team, infact he'll be a starter. Probably will but most high schoolers don't get the chance to shine ASAP. 

Kobe's rookie year he played in 71 games started 6 games and averaged 15mpg

Garnett 80games 43 starts 28minutes

T-Mac 64games, 17 starts 18minutes 

Jermaine O'Neal 45 games 0 starts. 10minutes

Kwame 57games 3 starts 14minutes

Darius Miles 81games 21starts 26minutes

Amare 82 games 71starts 31minutes. 

Amare was just givin more PT than the other HS players, as will LeBron therefore his learning curve will be much shorter and well he won't be any better than the guys who played sparingly.

Oh yeah Moses Malone averaged 18points and 14boards as a high schooler rookie.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> He will be an all-star as a rookie, undeserved but he will make the All-Star team, infact he'll be a starter. Probably will but most high schoolers don't get the chance to shine ASAP.
> ...


Because he is going to play more he will learn faster and become a contributor quicker than all of those guys, so the exact opposite of what you said will be the affect of playing more. Also if LeBron plays terrible like you are have already forseen, he won't be an all-star, players who don't perform well don't get voted on. If LeBron is averaging 14 points and 7 tos (like you say) he will not get voted on over AI and T mac, if he averages 22, 8 and 7 he might not get voted in over those guys.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> Amare was just givin more PT than the other HS players, as will LeBron therefore his learning curve will be much shorter and <b>well he won't be any better than the guys who played sparingly.</b>


You're telling me that Lebron WILL get PT, and he also won't be able to average more points than Jermaine O'Neal did his rookie year - 4.1? Or that his impact as a starter won't be as big as Jerm's impact as a 12th man? And you're right - his learning curve will be shorter. All that means is that he'll be able to post up good numbers much earlier than JO, Kobe, T-Mac, etc. did.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> Because he is going to play more he will learn faster and become a contributor quicker than all of those guys, so the exact opposite of what you said will be the affect of playing more. Also if LeBron plays terrible like you are have already forseen, he won't be an all-star, players who don't perform well don't get voted on. If LeBron is averaging 14 points and 7 tos (like you say) he will not get voted on over AI and T mac, if he averages 22, 8 and 7 he might not get voted in over those guys.


Actually he'll be expsoed for the fraud he is alot quicker. But he will still make the all-star team. 22 points? only if he shoots 25x a game.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> You're telling me that Lebron WILL get PT, and he also won't be able to average more points than Jermaine O'Neal did his rookie year - 4.1? Or that his impact as a starter won't be as big as Jerm's impact as a 12th man? And you're right - his learning curve will be shorter. All that means is that he'll be able to post up good numbers much earlier than JO, Kobe, T-Mac, etc. did.


He'll get good numbers not superstar numbers. He'll never be a superstar, well at least not a worthy superstar he's already a superstar.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

This whole thread is just nonsense. Why are people comparing superstars in the nba, in present time (right now) to what LeBron is like in highschool. A more acurrate comparison would be to watch tapes of kobe etc in high school. Ive seen clips of stars like kobe, when they were in highschool. LeBron is light years ahead on the development curve. This kid isnt a project, which isnt exactly a good thing. Because what if its as good as he gets. Very Elton Brandish if u ask me. 

Hey heres a comparison for LeBron i havnt heard anyone say. How bout a young Grant Hill. Same athletisism, passing ability, decent but not natural midrange game. I think they will be similar, and thats not bad, definatly worth a 1st round pick. Kobe and co, once were in highschool and their game back then is nothing compared to king james. Not to say he'll excell in the nba, but if those pure athletic players with no fundamentals (kobe, Tmac) back in highshcool, improved their games to superstar level, then whos to say LeBron cant.

I worry bout king james athletisism though. He doesnt seem to be a freak leaper, or have light speed quickness. He is quick mind u, and can jump, but usually superstars (2 guards) tend to be super athletic. But hey Paul Pierce and Grant Hill made it. I think LeBron will be decent.

14.6 ppg
6.3 rpg
4.9 dishes

on 29mpg (if Ricky is still around) expect all these to be higher if Ricky gets traded


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> He'll get good numbers not superstar numbers. He'll never be a superstar, well at least not a worthy superstar he's already a superstar.


Good numbers now? I thought you said he was a bust. Busts don't get good numbers. By the way, when did I say he was going to get superstar numbers? Oh yeah, I didn't.

Hell, you haven't disagreed with or argued my post one bit! :laugh:

By the way, for your other quote, "Actually he'll be expsoed for the fraud he is alot quicker." - I never knew Jerm, Kobe, Garnett and T-Mac were exposed for the frauds they are. 

That argument makes no sense, as usual.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> He doesnt seem to be a freak leaper, or have light speed quickness. He is quick mind u, and can jump, but usually superstars (2 guards) tend to be super athletic. But hey Paul Pierce and Grant Hill made it. I think LeBron will be decent.
> 
> 14.6 ppg
> ...


I have to disagree with you about LeBron's athleticism, I don't know if you saw the first game he played on TV, but on 1 dunk he got eye level to the rim, he gets up higher than anyone I have ever seen. He really isn't that quick, but for his size he is pretty quick, he doesn't have T Mac speed, but I do think he has similar speed to Kobe.

I really like your comparison to Grant Hill, I never thought about it, LeBron could end up being the player that people thought Grant Hill would be if he never got hurt. I see LeBron in his prime getting 28 points, 8 rebounds and 7 assists a game, which is probably what Grant Hill would've got if his ankle stayed healthy.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

LeBron does not have light-speed quickness but he IS a freak leaper...better than Grant Hill in the explosiveness area. He gets his eyes to rim level pretty easily. If you ever get chance to see the high school slam-dunk competition on ESPN sometime, he gets his head way over the rim pretty non-chalantly. His last dunk didn't show his insane vertical but you get to see the hangtime that he possesses, which could help him with finishing in the lane and having more time to pass

And..."King" George, I don't even think that you're serious anymore. I'm going to assume that nobody in the human race can have such terrible logic and debating skills. If you are truly that stupid, then I feel sorry for everyone within a 25 mile proximity of you. So I'm guessing that you're just continuing this debate just to get everyone mad, right? Right?


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> He'll be good as Stephen Jackson, he won't be an elite player though.


Exactly what I said


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

Longtime BBB.net posters, doesn't King George sound familiar to you? He does to me.

Sounds like the poster who once commented that he liked "perfecting his debating skills". That could be the ONLY explanation why he is not reasonable AT ALL. He seems to enjoy that he has everyone debating over his assinine comment about LBJ. He did it in the Clippers forum and in the "suggestion forum" re: moderator ratings (that is, IF he's the poster I'm referring to.)

Carry-on --- I just wanted to point out the obvious to me.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Good numbers now? I thought you said he was a bust. Busts don't get good numbers. By the way, when did I say he was going to get superstar numbers? Oh yeah, I didn't.
> ...


He will have good numbers but he will be a bust much like Christian Laettner, Keith Van Horn, Joe Smith, etc. Anything short or eliteness is a bust for this guy who has been handed the world without setting foot on a NBA court. 

LeBron is the fraud not Kobe, T-Mac, O'Neal, Garnett.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> Longtime BBB.net posters, doesn't King George sound familiar to you? He does to me.
> 
> Sounds like the poster who once commented that he liked "perfecting his debating skills". That could be the ONLY explanation why he is not reasonable AT ALL. He seems to enjoy that he has everyone debating over his assinine comment about LBJ. He did it in the Clippers forum and in the "suggestion forum" re: moderator ratings (that is, IF he's the poster I'm referring to.)
> ...


Hmm... well he registered in June 2003...


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Hmm... well he registered in June 2003...


That's about right, the person I'm referring to changes names each time he's confronted about his style of posting. He disappears for awhile, then reappears with a new name. This would be his third name, IF I'm right.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> He will have good numbers but he will be a bust much like Christian Laettner, Keith Van Horn, Joe Smith, etc. Anything short or eliteness is a bust for this guy who has been handed the world without setting foot on a NBA court.
> ...


Christian Laettner was not a bust. Neither was Keith Van Horn. KVH a bust? Are you friggin nuts - the guy averaged 23 points per game one season! If he puts up KVH-type numbers that is NOT a bust.

Nice last comment, which totally CONTRADICTS what you said before. You say he will put up GOOD numbers his first year. Look at all those players' stats, none of them except Amare put up good numbers. If anything THEY would be the frauds, not Lebron. That makes no sense. Also, you compare Lebron to Kobe, T-Mac, O'Neal and Garnett, and then say he's different? Sure. :laugh:

Yet again, you fail to argue my points.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> That's about right, the person I'm referring to changes names each time he's confronted about his style of posting. He disappears for awhile, then reappears with a new name. This would be his third name, IF I'm right.


Was he a poster on FH?


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Was he a poster on FH?


I'm not sure. At least I didn't notice his STYLE the short time I was there.

Keep in mind everyone, I could possibly be wrong, but King George has not denied it --- yet. And, it's really not an issue anyway.

BTW King George, I'm not confronting you are anything. It's your style and if others want to partake in your debating efforts -- it's a good thing for us all. No hard feelings. (IF you are the same person.)

EDIT: Gossiping is not good --- I WILL NOT BE PMing You, Budweiser _Boy, with my suspicions.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> <b>You're telling me that Lebron WILL get PT, and he also won't be able to average more points than Jermaine O'Neal did his rookie year - 4.1? </b> Or that his impact as a starter won't be as big as Jerm's impact as a 12th man? And you're right - his learning curve will be shorter. All that means is that he'll be able to post up good numbers much earlier than JO, Kobe, T-Mac, etc. did.


Yes, I think that is what he is trying to convince himself and others about what he sees in the future of Lebron. 

His crystal ball must have been struck by lightening?


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> I have to disagree with you about LeBron's athleticism, I don't know if you saw the first game he played on TV, but on 1 dunk he got eye level to the rim, he gets up higher than anyone I have ever seen. He really isn't that quick, but for his size he is pretty quick, he doesn't have T Mac speed, but I do think he has similar speed to Kobe.
> ...


I dunno, i have about 25 minutes of highlights of LeBron through various games. He takes off from the dotted line once, but none of his game dunks are eye level to hoop type dunks. He did a windmill once but that wasnt even specacular. Im, a big leBron fan, and his dunks are very fluid. From my game footage, it doesnt seem like he is a freak leaper. However im pretty sure he measured in at like 36 or 40 inch vert. Which is pretty good.

Man some of this guys passes i cant see the ball though, its that quick. i havent seen that dunk comp footage dude. I'll take ur word for it. He seems to have all the goods.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kg_theGREATEST</b>!
> yo LeBron James will dominate next averaging nearly a triple double with all the alleys he's going to be throwing Davis,Miles,and Wagner.
> 
> 17ppg,10apg,8rpg


No he's not.......yo:laugh:


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh: No way, is Lebron going to come out averaging those type of numbers. Not one player this past season averaged 10 apg and now LJ is going to come in and take over? :laugh:

Look for 12ppg, 5, apg, 5 rpg.... if that, yo! :laugh:


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## tidho (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> I saw on PTI that LeBron said his loyalty is to Nike, they are his family. Will LeBron cry to Nike and have Nike lean on Silas to give James huge PT, eventhough he'll suck his first year?


I didn't read the entore thread so someone may have mentioned this but, this quote was taken out of context. 

Nike has no conection with Silas - so no.

LeBron hasn't been drafted yet. The Cavaliers aren't his team yet. He went on in this interview to make that point clear. He is smart enough not to pledge his allegiance to a team he isn't playing for yet, no matter how likely it is.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Christian Laettner was not a bust. Neither was Keith Van Horn. KVH a bust? Are you friggin nuts - the guy averaged 23 points per game one season! If he puts up KVH-type numbers that is NOT a bust.
> ...


Laettner and Van Horn are busts. Van Horn never averaged 23points. he averagaded 21 in 42 games. Half a season bascially. If Lebron puts up 23 he better have 15 and 12 to go along with it or he's a bust too.

Nope. No contradictions. He will put up good numbers, why because he will get much more PT that those other guys Amare and Garnett and Miles were the only high schoolers to see significant minutes their rookie seasons. LeBron will get the shine and he won't deliver therefore he's a fraud. Nice attempt to discredit me, but you have to do alot better


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dynasty Raider</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not sure. At least I didn't notice his STYLE the short time I was there.
> ...


I'm new here. I have never posted on this board under another name.


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## tidho (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> If Lebron puts up 23 he better have 15 and 12 to go along with it or he's a bust too.


Yikes!

Averaging a triple double, to avoid being a bust - seem excessive.
Who's the last NBA player to put up numbers like that? I know big O.

You're implying that he needs to score more, but that's not his game. He is a Magic Johnson style player not a Nique Wilkens style player. If he eventually gets to 20 pts 8 rbds & 9 ast the Cavaliers will get their on court moneys worth (they've already gotten their of court moneys worth and he isn't even drafted yet.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> If Lebron puts up 23 he better have 15 and 12 to go along with it or he's a bust too.


That is just ridiculous. He has to average a triple double JUST to avoid being a bust? So you're telling me if he averages a double double, he's a bust? You're telling me if he averages something like 26, 10, and 9 he's a bust?  The only player ever to average a triple double was Oscar Robertson (Big O). You can't say the only way a player won't be a bust is that he'll have to average a triple double. You can't expect him to do something like that in his first few years in the NBA. That's just down right ridiculous and completely illogical.

Why does he have to average a triple double to avoid being a bust? Would you consider him a bust if he averaged a double double? What if he averages something like 30 points a game? What if he does completely turn the Cavaliers around? Would he still be a bust then, despite him not averaging a triple double?


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>tidho</b>!
> 
> 
> Yikes!
> ...


Not really. When you are this hyped you need to put up extraordinary numbers. Magic Johnson my aunt fanny. Magic is way better than this kid and was better at 19 than this kid is at 19 which he will be for the better part of the season.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Message to LBJ from LA ....*

I found this on another bulletin board and thought it appropriate to this discussion, seems to give him 3-4 years to meet expectations as many of you have said:


from the L.A. Times, June 21 2003:


Darryl Dawkins was the first player to go directly from high school to the NBA after he was selected fifth in the 1975 draft by the Philadelphia 76ers. After shattering a backboard and setting the league record for personal fouls, he acquired one of the greatest of all sports nicknames: "Chocolate Thunder."

Dawkins, 46, coach of the United States Basketball League's Pennsylvania ValleyDawgs, has a few words of wisdom for teen sensation LeBron James.

"The older guys don't want to hang out with you because you talk too much," he told the Denver Post. "And you're not old enough to go into a bar. 

"But whenever you get lonely, you've got to pick up your bankbook and look at your balance."


Uneasy driver: Dawkins said the two biggest adjustments he had to make were learning to get up on time and learning to drive in the snow.


Additions to LeBron's to-do list:

• Buy really big alarm clock.

• Hire a limo if it's cold.


Super freak: That's how former Denver Nugget Jerome Lane, who preceded James at St. Vincent-St. Mary High in Akron, Ohio, describes James, whose vital measurements were a bit of a mystery until he was measured (6 feet 7 1/4) and weighed (245 pounds) at the NBA's predraft camp in Chicago.

"I heard he's 2% body fat," Lane told the Post. "He's ripped up, man. There's a reason they call him the chosen one. Nobody's ever been built like this. Physically, he's ready to play in the NBA."


Could it be that LeBron is the real deal? We will know in about 3 or 4 years for sure. He's still growing!


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> Magic is way better than this kid and was better at 19 than this kid is at 19 which he will be for the better part of the season.


Speak quickly. Prove it, if you can. Thus far you have not refuted the main points against your argument.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> 
> 
> Speak quickly. Prove it, if you can. Thus far you have not refuted the main points against your argument.


Check Magic's file. He's better than his overrated never will be


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## 888 (May 25, 2003)

another day some dude brought up the comparison between stephon jackson and lebron saying lebron's first year stat will very much like what jackson is averaing now, its funny but when you think deep into it, it makes some sense too, no way in hell lebron will come into the league and immediately become a super star, he has chance to become an instant star, just like amare if not better, and he might even have better stats than amare because the suns have already starbury and matrix when amare came in, that means amare is at best the team's first option on offense, unlike suns, cavs will make lebron number 1 option on offense the moment he walk onto the introduction when the first game start......because his team cavalier is struggling and needs someone to put up the points, cavs will allow him to do whatever he wants to because of all the hype even if its for him to score 100 points per game, well if he score 100 points then i guess the opposite team is likely going for 400


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Well, you know he's not going to just be nothing... he's guarenteed to throw at least a few alley oops per game in Cleveland. It's a bit mysterious to me why he has no possibility of being successful in the NBA, but if you claim he can't learn and improve his game in the NBA and give no good reasons to back that up, then I guess you must be right.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> The difference between Miles and James is James is even more athletic and much much more skilled.


Let's not get carried away here. James is a great athelete. He's not Darius Miles. Not even that close, IMO.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Like A Breath</b>!
> FACT: LeBron put up 50 points against 6'7" top UCLA recruit Trevor Ariza in 25 minutes. Look at the schedule and tell me how many 5'9 pimply white kids guarded him.
> 
> Okay, let's just fault him for being muscular. Let's just tell him that he'll bust because he worked his *** off to be ready for the NBA. Do you honestly think that he put on that weight so he could dominate high school? He was dominating high school since late in his freshman season when he was a 195 pound stick. He worked his *** off and gained 50 pounds of muscle, and there are still doubters out there.
> ...


Lebron also scored 38 against Oak Hill and Carmelo Anthony as a JUNIOR in high school.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> Let's not get carried away here. James is a great athelete. He's not Darius Miles. Not even that close, IMO.


LeBron not as athletic is Darius Miles are you serious? Darius Miles is very athletic but nobody considers Miles the best athlete in the league, and LeBron is already close to that. The man gets eye level to the rim, and the fact he is so strong, his athleticism will have a bigger impact than Darius Miles athleticism.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> LeBron not as athletic is Darius Miles are you serious? Darius Miles is very athletic but nobody considers Miles the best athlete in the league, and LeBron is already close to that. The man gets eye level to the rim, and the fact he is so strong, his athleticism will have a bigger impact than Darius Miles athleticism.


Wow eye level to the rim. Who doesn't these days?


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Wow, LeBron isn't even in the NBA and he already has haters. Passionate, unreasonable haters.  That must be a good sign!


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow eye level to the rim. Who doesn't these days?


Now because of this comment I won't respond to anything else you post on this board again.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> Now because of this comment I won't respond to anything else you post on this board again.


My feelings are crushed. <strike>What are you 12?</strike>(THAT is unnecessary, confrontational, and an age discrimination remark. Please don't do that again. thanks. trm, ADMINISTRATOR)


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Laettner and Van Horn are busts. Van Horn never averaged 23points. he averagaded 21 in 42 games. Half a season bascially. <b>If Lebron puts up 23 he better have 15 and 12 to go along with it or he's a bust too.</b>


That was the <strike>dumbest quote you've ever said.</strike>

Sorry if you're jealous of him "having the world" and having a 90 million dollar shoe contract. He's worked hard for it, he's worked on his skills and his body, which is clearly NBA-ready, for it. Yet he has haters like you making ridiculous comments just to bring him down. <strike> You're pathetic. </strike>

(BudBoy, I am taking care of this, so please don't say anything more to KingGeorge. Thanks. TheRifleman)


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> My feelings are crushed. <strike>What are you 12? </strike>


Wow.<strike> If he is then he sure as hell is a lot smarter than you. </strike> ( This is not one-upmanship here - no more derogatory remarks!! thanks. trm ) I still can't get over you saying the only way LeBron won't be a bust is if he averages a triple double. 

:rotf: 

So you're telling me in order for him not to be a bust, he has to become only the second player in history to average a triple double, IN HIS ROOKIE YEAR!? That is completely ridiculous AND illogical.


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## p (Jul 17, 2002)

if you think yao ming was marked last year...?

no doubt the EAST guards... the best in the L are going to take it right to him...

no doubt, this guy wont put up big numbers in his first year...


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow. If he is then he sure as hell is a lot smarter than you. I still can't get over you saying the only way LeBron won't be a bust is if he averages a triple double.
> ...


<strike>That guy is a dunce and your comprehension skills are lacking.</strike><font color=blue>( That again - is namecalling - against our rules here! NO MORE. thanks. trm )</font> Someone said LeBRon would average 23points a game and I said he had to have something 15 and 12 to go along with it. 23 points a game does not make you an elite player. Ricky Davis averaged 21 and he's not on anyone's elite list. 

Never said he had to have a triple double, but 23 points aint squat, if he's gonna pput up 23points he best have 15 and 12 to go along with it, or else he is a bust. You guys are proclaiming him to be the best blah blah but yet you say it's unreasonable for me to say he has to perform like the best? That's flawed logic on your part, not mine.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> Wow, LeBron isn't even in the NBA and he already has haters. Passionate, unreasonable haters.  That must be a good sign!


From the looks of this thread, I'd say his "haters" are a relative few.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>888</b>!
> another day some dude brought up the comparison between stephon jackson and lebron saying lebron's first year stat will very much like what jackson is averaing now, its funny but when you think deep into it, it makes some sense too,


That was me playa but I added some dumb stuff as well.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> From the looks of this thread, I'd say his "haters" are a relative few.


I'm not a hater, I'm a realist. How can you proclaim someone is the greatest and he's better than this one and that one and be satisfied with mediocre numbers?


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not a hater, I'm a realist. How can you proclaim someone is the greatest and he's better than this one and that one and be satisfied with mediocre numbers?


My use of the word, "haters" was in quotations marks from the source I quoted from.

I am NOT proclaiming someone ( LeBron in particular, since this thread is about him.  ) as the greatest or better than "this one or that one". 

Also, It isn't a question of being satisfied with mediocre numbers , as he has no nba numbers at this point for me or anyone to be satisfied or dissatisfied with.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Georgie, you're a HATER. Obviously you're blind enough not to realize that... I've had enough of "arguing" with you. You never actually argue any of my points, nor do you argue anyone else's points... all you do is keep hating and saying the same BS over and over again. <strike>You're a waste of time.</strike>( getting much too personal, BB, please say nothing derogatory on this matter anymore. thanks. trm)


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Georgie, you're a HATER. Obviously you're blind enough not to realize that... I've had enough of "arguing" with you. You never actually argue any of my points, nor do you argue anyone else's points... all you do is keep hating and saying the same BS over and over again. <strike>You're a waste of time. </strike(Please don't tell other posters that they are a waste of time. It is confrontational. thanks. trm )


Since I'm a "blind hater" <strike>does that make you a blind penis jockey? I think it does. </strike><font color=blue> ( KingGeorge, please don't use biological sexual terms when referring to other posters. Also, read your pms, as I have pm'd you. trm) </font> Your arguments are weak as are mine none of know what he's gonna do til he gets on the court, the probability of him being a bust is far greater than it of him being a success, I don't care how many worthless high school accolades he has.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Since I'm a "blind hater" <strike>does that make you a blind penis jockey? I think it does. </strike> Your arguments are weak as are mine none of know what he's gonna do til he gets on the court, the probability of him being a bust is far greater than it of him being a success, I don't care how many worthless high school accolades he has.


So if we don't know what he's going to do until he gets on the court, why did you go ahead and say he's going to suck his first year?


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow. <strike>If he is then he sure as hell is a lot smarter than you. </strike>I still can't get over you saying the only way LeBron won't be a bust is if he averages a triple double.
> ...


King also said he would average 14 pts from 22 fg attempts,and 7 fta while shooting 35 % from the floor. <strike>So not only is he illogical and ridiculous he also failed Algebra.</strike>( this is derogatory as it is addressed to another poster - hence, against our rules! No more! thanks trm)

I'm surprised he's getting this kind of response,Ignore him <strike>he's just trolling.</strike>


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> So if we don't know what he's going to do until he gets on the court, why did you go ahead and say he's going to suck his first year?


Oh, I get it. He can be hailed as the second coming without setting foot on a NBA floor, but he can't be labeled a bust without playing a game. You can't have it both ways people.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Im The One</b>!
> 
> 
> King also said he would average 14 pts from 22 fg attempts,and 7 fta while shooting 35 % from the floor. <strike>So not only is he illogical and ridiculous he also failed Algebra.</strike>
> ...


I just threw out numbers as I stated before. And I have never failed anything in my life. But since I'm not a LeBron groupie, I'm a troll.<strike> Illogical fool. </strike> ( AS I said before on one of the many pages of this thread - do not insult other posters with namecalling. trm)


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, I get it. He can be hailed as the second coming without setting foot on a NBA floor, but he can't be labeled a bust without playing a game. You can't have it both ways people.


Tell me where I said he was the second coming.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

I can'i believe this post is still on going. My argument is ended but I like to point one thing out. The people you are arguing against King George right now NEVER said that Lebron is the second coming. They have all said that you cannot label a player a bust before coming into the NBA. ANYONE calling Lebron the "second coming" is as ridculous as anyone calling him a bust. Both have yet to happen therefore don't say anything about it. You are buying the hype too much King George...but you are going the opposite direction of it. The only ones calling Lebron the second coming is ESPN. Nobody intelligent is labeling him as such. Intelligent people have said he has the potential to become a great player. Potential is NOT definite. Lebron is ALSO a potential bust. Read my point: NO ONE SHOULD CALL LEBRON A BUST OR A HOF...the guy hasn't even set foot into the NBA yet. It is true that at this stage (HS) Lebron could very well be the greatest ever BUT that does not mean he will BE THE GREATEST EVER in the NBA. You are arguing against people who have not said he is the next greatest. They have argued against you because you keep insisting that Lebron is a bust. What you are doing is as wrong as the concept you are arguing about...people labeling Lebron as the second coming. Therefore your argument is illogical not to mention some of the other illogical reasons you give to try to proove your point. Go to ESPN and SI and argue with them since they are the ones that coined Lebron as such not here. Most people here at least the ones intelligent NEVER said Lebron IS the greatest EVER in the NBA. That is IMPOSSIBLE to determine at this moment. That is all I will add...I suggest all others end this useless argument.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> I can'i believe this post is still on going. My argument is ended but I like to point one thing out. The people you are arguing against King George right now NEVER said that Lebron is the second coming. They have all said that you cannot label a player a bust before coming into the NBA. ANYONE calling Lebron the "second coming" is as ridculous as anyone calling him a bust. Both have yet to happen therefore don't say anything about it. You are buying the hype too much King George...but you are going the opposite direction of it. The only ones calling Lebron the second coming is ESPN. Nobody intelligent is labeling him as such. Intelligent people have said he has the potential to become a great player. Potential is NOT definite. Lebron is ALSO a potential bust. Read my point: NO ONE SHOULD CALL LEBRON A BUST OR A HOF...the guy hasn't even set foot into the NBA yet. It is true that at this stage (HS) Lebron could very well be the greatest ever BUT that does not mean he will BE THE GREATEST EVER in the NBA. You are arguing against people who have not said he is the next greatest. They have argued against you because you keep insisting that Lebron is a bust. What you are doing is as wrong as the concept you are arguing about...people labeling Lebron as the second coming. Therefore your argument is illogical not to mention some of the other illogical reasons you give to try to proove your point. Go to ESPN and SI and argue with them since they are the ones that coined Lebron as such not here. Most people here at least the ones intelligent NEVER said Lebron IS the greatest EVER in the NBA. That is IMPOSSIBLE to determine at this moment. That is all I will add...I suggest all others end this useless argument.



:greatjob: That is what I tried to say. One cannot make any futuristic declarations of "the 2nd coming" or "bust" - as he has NO NBA numbers for anyone to like or dislike.


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## tidho (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> 
> 
> Ricky Davis averaged 21 and he's not on anyone's elite list.
> ...


Ricky will be, he's only done it one year a couple more years of 21-6-6 and he'll be on everyone's list.

The flawed logic is the stats you used to define the best. Wouldn't 20-10-10 also be the best? Who puts up 20-9-9? I'm not saying he'll be the best ever, because I don't know. I do know he could be though. He's as good at this point that anyone has ever been. Maybe he's peeked. If he continues to improve he'll be all NBA.


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## tidho (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> the probability of him being a bust is far greater than it of him being a success, I don't care how many worthless high school accolades he has.


Based on what?

Most number one picks pan out. I think the odds are with him.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> I can'i believe this post is still on going. My argument is ended but I like to point one thing out. The people you are arguing against King George right now NEVER said that Lebron is the second coming. They have all said that you cannot label a player a bust before coming into the NBA. ANYONE calling Lebron the "second coming" is as ridculous as anyone calling him a bust. Both have yet to happen therefore don't say anything about it. You are buying the hype too much King George...but you are going the opposite direction of it. The only ones calling Lebron the second coming is ESPN. Nobody intelligent is labeling him as such. Intelligent people have said he has the potential to become a great player. Potential is NOT definite. Lebron is ALSO a potential bust. Read my point: NO ONE SHOULD CALL LEBRON A BUST OR A HOF...the guy hasn't even set foot into the NBA yet. It is true that at this stage (HS) Lebron could very well be the greatest ever BUT that does not mean he will BE THE GREATEST EVER in the NBA. You are arguing against people who have not said he is the next greatest. They have argued against you because you keep insisting that Lebron is a bust. What you are doing is as wrong as the concept you are arguing about...people labeling Lebron as the second coming. Therefore your argument is illogical not to mention some of the other illogical reasons you give to try to proove your point. Go to ESPN and SI and argue with them since they are the ones that coined Lebron as such not here. Most people here at least the ones intelligent NEVER said Lebron IS the greatest EVER in the NBA. That is IMPOSSIBLE to determine at this moment. That is all I will add...I suggest all others end this useless argument.


I don't think people are annoyed with the fact that he is calling LeBron a bust, but are annoyed because of his reasoning. Personally I don't think there is anyway LeBron can live up to the hype, so in that sense you could say he will be a bust. But if your argument for saying he is going to be a bust is because T Mac and Kobe are better than him than that is surely going to get people annoyed.


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## GhostofMarbs (Jun 19, 2003)

He'll do just fine, and considering the hype machine behind him he's has got a lot to live up to. 

But then look at Yao Ming last year. "who?" i hear you say, coz look how quickly that hype machine has been forgotten, yet there's no doubting he proved any critics wrong. 

He wasn't a bust by a long way, but he also wasn't perfect. But then Houston knew that when they picked him, same as the Suns with Amare.


You can't expect a 20/10/10 outta him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's around the 16/7/6 range if he gets enough playing time. (which he will...)


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> Never said he had to have a triple double, but 23 points aint squat, if he's gonna pput up 23points he best have 15 and 12 to go along with it, or else he is a bust. You guys are proclaiming him to be the best blah blah but yet you say it's unreasonable for me to say he has to perform like the best? That's flawed logic on your part, not mine.


Ok, let me see here. He has to have 23-15-12 to not be a bust. Duncan had 23-12-4, KG had 23-13-6. Dang man, everybody in hte league must be a bust. So he'll have to have the most rebounds and assists in the league and put 23 points on top of that when he's 18 yearrs old to not be a bust? 



> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> I'm not a hater, I'm a realist. How can you proclaim someone is the greatest and he's better than this one and that one and be satisfied with mediocre numbers?


A realist huh? LeBron is better than all those guys were when they were *18*! Not in their 20s. All the numbers I've seen from him haven't been mediocre. We don't know what kind of numbers he's gonna put up, so how can you already call them mediocre. He is likley the greatest at this point in his career compared to others at the same point. Nobody thinks he's gonna come in and be among the elite inthe league or be even close to All-NBA honors orr anything like that. 



> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> Since I'm a "blind hater" <strike>does that make you a blind penis jockey? I think it does. </strike><font color=blue> ( KingGeorge, please don't use biological sexual terms when referring to other posters. Also, read your pms, as I have pm'd you. trm) </font> Your arguments are weak as are mine none of know what he's gonna do til he gets on the court, the probability of him being a bust is far greater than it of him being a success, I don't care how many worthless high school accolades he has.


How can you think he will be a bust? The *only* thing you can base your thoughts on is what he's done already in his HS career. And he hasn't done a dang thing wrong. He might be the best ever at this point in his career. So he's gonna be a bust then? By that logic every player in htte history of the game and likely in the future of the game was or is going to be a bust.



> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> Oh, I get it. He can be hailed as the second coming without setting foot on a NBA floor, but he can't be labeled a bust without playing a game. You can't have it both ways people.


Nobody said he was the second coming of anything. We think he'll be pretty good, and we base our thoughts on what he has done so far. And if you want to go to an extreme, then it would easily be him being great rather than a bust.

Waht is this now, the 7th time probly I've said this, *Why will LeBron be a bust King George:king:?* The only thing you could look at to predict his NBA career would be what he's done so far. Which is possibly better than anybody has ever done. In his workouts with Cleveland, he did great. Usuallyyoung kids coming into the NBA have flaws on and off the court. They are in troulbe with the law, which LeBron isn't. They are selfish and don't know the game of basketball well enough, but LeBron does. There's no reason to think he will be a bust, let alone already being a bust before he's even in the NBA. Hell, he could not even be drafted and never get a contract in basketball for his entire life. But he would still be a bust then, huh? trm, King George:king:, you are a


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

[email protected] being better than Kobe and T-Mac at 19, what a joke. At 19 Kobe was dropping 15.4 in 26 minutes with 3pulls and 2 dimes.

T-Mac 9.3points 5 pulls and 2dimes in 22minutes.

Neither were starters. LeBron has to double those numbers for you to claim he's better at 19 than they were and even still it wopn't prove anything seeing as how they were subs and he'll be starting and starring on his own team.

LeBRon is an overhyped, overratted lame. King james will come crashing to earth soon enough and I will be laughing my *** off at it and laughing at all the fools who hyped him to the moon.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Why does he have to double their numbers to prove that he's better than them. Nobody said he was two times better than they were. For one, players take different amounts of time transfering their game into the NBA. That doesn't mean they aren't good, it just takes longer for them to be used to the NBA game. We have no clue how long it will take LeBron. Wouldn't it make sense though that if he just had better numbers, even if it was a little bit, that that would make him better. But you are saying that someone has to doulbe another players numbers to be better than them? That makes sense.:no: I've noticed how you always say "19" instead of comparing their ROOKIE years straight out of high school. They weren't good enough, so you had to jump ahead a year where they were a little better. And we don't know if he'll start, and he won't be the star on the court for sure. He might be the "star" to the fans, but he was a #1 pick and all #1 picks are stars no matter what they do in their first year. You still have *NO* reasons why he will be a bust. You've already said that he already is a bust, which is ludacris because that's like calling a 2-year-old a bust. They might be, but they sure as hell aren't now. And you have no reasons for him being a bust, other than you just don't like him. He has every quality that would make him *not* a bust, yet you proclaim him as a bust. And you expect him to average a triple-double and then you would consider him not being a bust possibly. Even though he would be putting up better numbers than the 2 best players in the league, KG and Duncan. You want him to have 12 or 13 assists when nobody even reached 10 this year. You want him to get 15 boards when he's gonna play point guard. And then add on 23 points. And he has to do all that in his rookie year out of high school to just not be considered a bust. And there's area in between a bust and a real gem. So he would need around 40pts, 25reb, and 20ast for him to be the gem of the draft. That would be by far teh best season in the history of the NBA, and those numbers would never be close to being touched, or even envisioned. Do you even understand what you're saying? Because it sure doesn't appear so.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

If he's already better than they were at 19 he should have no problem doubling their numbers since he'll be starting more games, getting more minutes and more touches. 

I find it funny how when someone says Kobe or T-Mac is better than Jordan was at a certain age the first thing people do to "disprove" it is post stats, but when it's LeBron stats don't matter huh? If he's more advanced then they were at 19, he needs to double their numbers, otherwise he's just hype.

Kobe was what 18 and 3/4mos.

T--Mac was what 18 and 6/7 mos.

LeBron will be 18 and 10/11 mos.
when the season gets into swing

Jermaine O'Neal was still 17 when the 1996 season rolled around.

#1 picks are not sure shots. Ever heard of Pervis Ellison, Kwame Brown isn't producing, true he's still young but was he worth the overall #1 pick? At this point no, only time will tell if ever will be. Yao Ming was a good choice last year cuz how often does a 7'5 man with talent come around? Not often even if he's a project the risk is worth it. The last #1 pick overall that was the undisputed best player in the draft was in 1997 with Tim Duncan, then you have to go back to '94 with Chris Webber. The rest is a crap shoot.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> If he's more advanced then they were at 19, he needs to double their numbers, otherwise he's just hype.


What the hell are you on King George? He has to put up huge numbers every game to not be considerd a bust in his first year out of HS? Do you not realize how ridiculous that is? He's a teenager and you expect him to average a triple-double to not be a bust? 23-15-12 or whatever the hell you said earlier. He has to have one of the best seasons in NBA history in his rookie year out of HS just to not be considered a bust? If he put up those numbers, there's no doubt he would be the MVP. So he has to be the MVP to not be a bust? I don't know a damn person who thinks he'll come close to being MVP this year. But he has to be the MVP for him not to be a bust? Holy **** man, you are an idiot. Sorry mods for going a little crazy on him, but my god, he's got a pile of pure **** that he likes to call his brain.



> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> If Lebron puts up 23 he better have 15 and 12 to go along with it or he's a bust too.


http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37441&perpage=15&pagenumber=8
Come on man, start thinking.



> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> LeBron James is a bust!


http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37441&perpage=15&pagenumber=6
:no:


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## Dark Praetor (Mar 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>King George</b>!
> If he's already better than they were at 19 he should have no problem doubling their numbers since he'll be starting more games, getting more minutes and more touches.


He got close enough to double their stats.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I don't remember this thread... but wow, what a moron.



> LeBRon is an overhyped, overratted lame. King james will come crashing to earth soon enough and I will be laughing my *** off at it and laughing at all the fools who hyped him to the moon


I guess this plan backfired. 

LeBRon is a lame? Ouch! I wonder where this guy is now.


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

you can say that again jeeze


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