# OT: End of Season for Pacers.



## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Stern shouldn't tolerate anything less than a season long suspension for Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal.

Goodnight, Indiana.

They'll talk about this for years.


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

While obviously you're a little extreme, this is a problem and will be reprimanded harshly.

Artest could be in trouble and clearly the ramifications could be felt at season's end.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Nope! 

Players union will make this an issue of the security at the game.


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## smeedemann (Jul 16, 2003)

*Disagree!*

After watching that video several times I would have to disagree with you. There are hundreds of people throwing things at the players. They do not know who is coming after them or not. The fans are rediculous in this situation.

If you watch, Ben Wallace and the Pistons are not letting up and Artest is laying on the press table talking to the press with earphones on. Then the fan throws the drink at Artests head. This wasn't the first thing thrown at the Pacers at this point. 

If I was the Pacers I would be asking where the security was! I would like to see anyone just stand around and take things being thrown at them and fans allowed to storm the floor.

If anything this is a huge black eye for the NBA, and Stern will have his work cut out for him figuring out what to do. The Pacers players were definitely not protected in this situation.:no:


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

According to ESPN, the guy O'Neal punched ran out onto the floor and had his fists raised to throw a punch of his own. 

Suspend Jermaine? More like give him a medal and throw that fan in jail for 30 days! Heck, as far as I am concerned, the security guards could have shot the drunken fool down like any other rabid animal!

When is somebody going to hold "fans" accountable for their behavior?

:banghead:


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

I think Artest should not have gone into the crowd but it wasn't like he was trying to start things back up with B Wallace. He was lying on a freaking scorers table.

Some jerk hit him with a beer. I don't know many guys that would allow someone to dump a keg on them and not get pissed.

Infact I think there was a white guy in a blue security shirt and hat that tried to grab Artest and then punched him twice while his head was turned. Am I wrong?

Artest did nothing more than Rodman or Lambeer didn't used to do to get this whole thing started with Wallace. Detroit fans should love the hard foul, their team invented it!

Fans throwing sucker punches from behind is just lame.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Are the Pacers the new 80s Pistons?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Oldmangrouch</b>!
> According to ESPN, the guy O'Neal punched ran out onto the floor and had his fists raised to throw a punch of his own.
> 
> Suspend Jermaine? More like give him a medal and throw that fan in jail for 30 days! Heck, as far as I am concerned, the security guards could have shot the drunken fool down like any other rabid animal!
> ...


when Jermaine threw his punch to the guy who Artest hit, he wasn't looking.

And Artest went after the wrong guy.

And if you don't think the fans themselves are going to get in trouble, or get blamed, you're crazy.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

We better blame this on Sheed!


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

I actually think it was that lady who threw the cup at Artest. He went after the wrong guy. Jackson hit that other fan for no reason. O'Neal really co cocked that dude with a cheap shot.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> Infact I think there was a white guy in a blue security shirt and hat that tried to grab Artest and then punched him twice while his head was turned. Am I wrong?


He wasn't security, I think the shirt says "Wallace" on the back.


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## saugato (Aug 15, 2003)

I think Pistons were absolutely right in what they did. Kudos to Steven and Jermaine for looking after their teammates back. Maybe the biggest punk is is Ben. Never new he was such an *******. I hope the Pistons get peed on in each stadium throught the countrey. Let them come to Oakland. I am going to shoot each one of them


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## smeedemann (Jul 16, 2003)

That fan that you claim Jermaine gave a cheap shot to was trying to give a cheap shot on Artest moments before. 

Any of those fans are getting what they ask for by attacking the Pacers players. I would like to see anyone on here have a large group of people throw things at them (including chairs), and not do anything.

I think it is a sad bunch of events but the players should not have to be subjected to a situation like this. there were hundreds of fans all over and they had no idea of who was after them or not.

I did not see very many security guards in the area handling the situation either.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>furball</b>!
> I actually think it was that lady who threw the cup at Artest. He went after the wrong guy. Jackson hit that other fan for no reason. O'Neal really co cocked that dude with a cheap shot.


I dont think Jackson hit the guy for no reason,look again you will see that guy throws a drink in Artest face...Then jackson swung on him...

:yes:


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

The Pistons should have to play their next 3-5 home games in an empty arena. It's a privilege to go to a game, if you can't behave...you can't go. The league needs to send a message.

The Pistons (as a franchise) should take the financial hit because they are responsible for keeping their fans in line and OFF THE COURT. 

To me it is really hard to blame the players for this one. Those fans earned everything they got.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

Yeah, I take that back, that dude did throw a drink in Jacksons face. But Artest still hit the wrong dude in the stands. He was more than justified in hitting the fan on the court and Jermain did the right thing by tagging the other fan. If you look, Chuck Person was the one who ended up dropping the guy Artest punched.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Yo, Jermaine and Artest pretty much made unprovoked attacks on that one fan. Please. JO went right after that guy for no reason. They're DONE. And Stephen Jackson's behavior is ridiculous. 

I mean, the Pacers had a huge lead. Why couldn't they just walk away from any confrontation?

And yea, Artest got a cup thrown at him, but what the hell was he doing lying on the scorer's table like that?

The Pacers are done.

Season long if not CAREER long suspensions will be doled out.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

Artest and Jackson should be done for charging in the stands, but Artest and O'neal had every right to clock those guys once they ran out on the court. Just like the fans had every right attack the players when they ran in the stands. The only real idiot was Tinsley running out with a freakin dust pan. We should call him either "Alice" Tinsley, "Hazel" Tinsley, or "Schnieder" Tinsley.:sfight:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>furball</b>!
> Artest and Jackson should be done for charging in the stands, but Artest and O'neal had every right to clock those guys once they ran out on the court. Just like the fans had every right attack the players when they ran in the stands. The only real idiot was Tinsley running out with a freakin dust pan. We should call him either "Alice" Tinsley, "Hazel" Tinsley, or "Schnieder" Tinsley.:sfight:


hey..I knew a girl named Tinlsey.


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## smeedemann (Jul 16, 2003)

If season long or career long suspensions are handed out for this.......

Kiss the NBA goodbye!!!

The players union will never allow it! Their biggest argument has legal ramifications behind it. The NBA has an obligation to provide a safe work environment. In this case the environment was far from safe!

There were fans throwing cheap shots as well as everything within reach at the Pacers players. None of the coaches or players could leave the arena safely. I do not understand how you think they could possibly walk away from any of the confrontations.

Hopefully Stern and the NBA look at everything carefully before they have a knee jerk reaction. 

Don't get me wrong, I think some of the players should have a punishment but not even close to the extent that you are talking about!


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

Artest and Jackson need to be whacked at least 10 games


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

> And Artest went after the wrong guy.


Sure did - the guy he hit still had his beer in his hand.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

The Detroit franchise takes ALL the hit for this one.

Ben Wallace gets suspended several games for attacking Artest. It appeared the head shove damaged Artest's neck.

Ben Wallace's over-reaction to a hard foul set off the drunken, socially-challenged Pistons fans who rioted, a serious crime in most non-eastern cities of America.

Ben will be suspended. Fans who can be identified on tape will be prosecuted for assault and battery, and possibly inciting a riot.

Legally speaking, when under attack by an angry mob, ANY American citizen has the right to defend himself with whatever level of force is required to stop or repel the attack. No matter what the NBA says about it.

No fault can be laid on the Pacers players, but they will be fined at the very least anyway. The union will appeal their fines and probably win.

Detroit is ultimately responsible for whatever happens in their building and quite likely will be sanctioned severely, possibly losing future draft picks along with huge financial fines.

I love the idea of locking out the fans until Detroit can prove they can provide a safe venue for players and visiting fans alike.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MARIS61</b>!
> The Detroit franchise takes ALL the hit for this one.
> 
> Legally speaking, when under attack by an angry mob, ANY American citizen has the right to defend himself with whatever level of force is required to stop or repel the attack. No matter what the NBA says about it.
> ...


I dunno, I think if you've got to run across the floor to punch someone, as Jerm did, that pretty much takes away your self-defense defense. And I'm pretty sure getting a drink thrown on you doesn't, in the eyes of the law, justify attacking anyone in the general vicinity.

barfo


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

That Dude Oneal hit shouldnt have been on the court...That guy was going to sucker punch Artest from behind,but thought twice about it after Artest turned around ..He got what was coming to him if you ask me..

Although I think the players should have been a little more professional..I cant blame them, I'd be pretty pissed if someone threw a beer in my face.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> That Dude Oneal hit shouldnt have been on the court...That guy was going to sucker punch Artest from behind,but thought twice about it after Artest turned around ..He got what was coming to him if you ask me..


Well, I dunno. Sure, he shouldn't have been on the court, but when you have a riot in the stands, some of the fans are going to end up on the court. 

Maybe he did have his heart set on punching Artest, but as you point out, he changed his mind. That puts him one up on several of the players, who didn't do the necessary thinking-before-punching that this guy did. 

I only saw it once, so I'm not sure what the situation really was. It looked to me like he was trying to stand up when Jerm came flying in and punched him. It looked to me like he got a wee bit more than what was coming to him, but I could be wrong about that.

barfo


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

How anyone could try and justify how the Indiana players deserve a majority of the blame is sheer lunacy.

Ben Wallace intiated this whole escapade, when he maliciosuly punched Artest in the face, after a hard foul but certainly not a flagrant one. Then Ben would not let it go, throowing a towel etc...

Artest was actually fine until a fan hit him in the face with a bottle\cup. He should NOT have gone into the stands, and he and Steven Jackson in particuakr do share in some part of the blame. But it is very minor IMO, the DET fans were 100% without a DOUBT in the wrong. Sucker punching players? throwing chairs?

There is NO WAY that Artest, Jackson or O'Neal will face long or season long suspensions. Fines, yeah. A small suspension, maybe. But IMO, the biggest suspension should be handed to Ben Wallace, and the DET franchise should be hit with severe fines and the loss of a draft pick or two. Let that be the message the NBA sends to its franchises. You ARE responsible for your fans behavior, just as you ARE responsible for your opponents and your own teams' players safety. 

Detroit failed miserably in both aspects tonight.

IF you are focusing the blame on Indiana players, Nathan, then you are clearly not seeing or admitting the larger problem here. This type of fan behavior cannot be tolerated. You wouldn't condone or tolerate it in your own life, so why should it not apply at a sporting event?


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MARIS61</b>!
> The Detroit franchise takes ALL the hit for this one.
> 
> Ben Wallace gets suspended several games for attacking Artest. It appeared the head shove damaged Artest's neck.
> ...


Agreed. With one swift push, Ben Wallace went from one of my favorite players in the league to well...one I'm not a fan of anymore. 

YOU'VE LOST A FAN BIG BEN.


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## talman (Dec 31, 2002)

Kmurph:

While I agree with most everything you've said I disagree with the point that Indiana players (artest and jackson) involvement was minor.

There's enough blame to go around for everyone but IMO, this fight never happens if Artest doesn't go into the crowd. No that doesn't excuse the fans actions but artest should have let security deal with it.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> How anyone could try and justify how the Indiana players deserve a majority of the blame is sheer lunacy.
> 
> Ben Wallace intiated this whole escapade, when he maliciosuly punched Artest in the face, after a hard foul but certainly not a flagrant one. Then Ben would not let it go, throowing a towel etc...


Yes, but scenes like that - players shoving and hitting each other - happen all the time in the NBA. That wasn't anything so abnormal. If that was all that happened, Wallace would get suspended for a game or two, and that would be that.

Where it got interesting was when the drink hit Artest. That's certainly the fault of the one fan who threw it. If that was all that happened, you have security haul the guy off. He loses his season tickets, maybe gets a misdemeanor conviction, and that would be that.

But when Artest and Jackson ran into the stands and started punching people, well... that's the start of the riot and they were completely out of line. So, yeah, I think they deserve heavy suspensions. 

barfo


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

After seeing the melee a dozen times, I think this is fair:

Artest: 7 games - He wasn't defending himself, he had to run 20 feet to get to the guy. You just don't charge the stands unless you are under a real threat. A beer cup doesn't count IMO.

Steven Jackson: 9 games - This guy deserves the biggest hit. He did more than anyone to escalate the situation. He had some serious bad intentions.

Jermaine: 5 games - The punch was on the court so that drops it from being 7 games. But he had to come from a good distance away to nail that guy. No self defense on that one.

Ben Wallace: One game for the initial cheap shot.

A few other players might deserve a game or two for running into the stands.

Several of the fans should be prosecuted, especially the ones that came onto the court.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

Man-o-Man is this a difficult situation. 

I just got done watching the game a little while ago after watching the replays during the near-entirity of SportsCenter.

What's so tragic is that the game was so close to being done and over with. 

Artest gave somewhat of a hard foul...but I think it is safe to say that it wasn't really a cheap shot or mallicious on Big Ben. However, Big Ben's hit is a pretty serious one. A two-handed shove to the throat. I can easily see him getting 2 games for that single action, just due to the intent. 

After that, everything calmed down. Artest was stretched out on the Scorer's table with Reggie Miller holding on and talking to him when the beer was tossed at him. 

Technically, you probably could classify that as assult. Of course Artest should have been more calm, but we're talking about Artest here. The guy has a known temper problem, and in this situation, after the skirmish with Wallace, was like a ticking time bomb. If nothing had happened and Artest hadn't been provoked, then everything would have been OK. However, emotions ran high and Artest ran out into the stands and started throwing punches. Other players tried to break it up, but some ending up having to defend themselves. 

Certainly the players are somewhat responsible...but I can understand why many of them went in after him...did they really want Artest to be mauled by an angry Detroit fan area, as that is what would have certainly happened if all the other players had done nothing but looked on. 

Additionally, other fans, past the initial provoking, got up in the players' faces, especially on the court, and in some ways I cannot feel that sorry for it. They had it comming as they went into the fight that they could have just as easily walked away from as the players. 

I think what happened was wrong, but the blame is surely to be distributed between the Pacer players and Detroit fans.

I can't really BLAME Wallace for the event, as his actions were unassumingly leading up to this event. I don't think anyone thought that this sort of thing would happen, and if the fan hadn't provoked Artest then nothing would have. 

Which of course, means that there obviously needs to be better security, which will decrease player suspension times.

I think that Artest, due to his history, could be looking at 10-12 games, although I feel that he only really deserves about 7. Additionally, I think O'Neal could be looking at 3-5. In my mind, I agree with Goldmember; Stephen Jackson was really out of control and did not go up into the stands to help intervine but to join in the fray and fighting. I don't see how he can really deserve any less amount of time than Artest will be getting. However, due to Artest's history and since he is the "main player" in this fight, I think he'll get the most games suspended. 

Honestly, this game is really a low-light for the NBA. I hated to see those children crying while their parents tried to cover up their eyes. However, I can sympathize with the players. 

The Detroit fans were trashballls tonight. The way that they thew things at the players, such as drinks, food, shoes, and even metal chairs (talk about dangerous, imagine if that HAD connected with the head of O'Neal). It is obvious that the fans had a huge role in the fray and that has to be considered. I mean, even as players like Croshire and the coaches were leaving the still had to be heavily escorted and protected for their security....thus there is some self-defense in this scenario.

Overall, I hate to see things like this taint the game. However, I would hate even more to see the Pacer's season "ended" by this situation. It was clearly not entirely their fault as it was a provoked incident. The Pacer's have been my favorite team in the East for as long as I can remember due in large part to Reggie Miller. 

Regardless of the team, I don't see how their season should be ended for something like this. Obviously there are many legal ramafications, as all of the court lawsuits that will be filed against everyone, but life will go on and in two months this situation will just be another part of history...or at least until these two teams meet again.

I just can't imagine what a playoff series would look like between these two teams now...obvious perennial archrivals. I certainly hope that Detroit's fans clean up their act.

Besides, who in their right mind would go and provoke Artest. Honestly. He is known to have a short-fuse and just got hit by Wallace. 

If the person who threw the beer at Artest got hit, I could really care less. He had it comming. 

I just feel sorry for everyone else that is innocent that became involved. Hopefully no one was hurt too badly and life will move on.

I'd like to see the Pacers be able to recover from this situation. And because of things like the Players Union...I think they probably will.


So I guess that means we'll probably be seeing them in the playoffs. Won't that be interesting.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

I don't know. 

What I do know is the Blazer's need to trade Reef.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> We better blame this on Sheed!


Sheed Happens!


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

The thing that is unfortunate is that the detroit fans were the biggest problem, but that wont penalize the piston's team. This incident will certainly penalize the pacer's team. The behavior tonight reflected more poorly on the city of detroit than it did on the city of indiana, yet the pistons will most certainly get a lighter "sentence" than the pacers.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but scenes like that - players shoving and hitting each other - happen all the time in the NBA. That wasn't anything so abnormal. If that was all that happened, Wallace would get suspended for a game or two, and that would be that.
> ...


I agree with this 100%. What Ben did is pretty common in the NBA. Eject him, suspend him, etc. and leave it at that. Late in a game when it's a blowout, Artest should't be putting hard fouls on anyone also. But the whole thing starts with one fan throws the cup at Artest. Have Ron or fans point out the guy and he gets kicked out with no other altercation. Artest losing all self control and running up into the stands sets off the whole thing. It's obvious there isn't any peace makers on the Pacers bench except maybe Reggie.

Oh, and Jermaine clocking the guy trying to stand up is just plain wrong.

So, it's all started by a plastic cup, and the last image of the whole thing is a kid scared ****less with his brother comforting him.. 

Thanks Ron.. You'll get that month long vacation to work on your music career now..


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I still think that the guy who Artest first went after, wasn't the guy who threw the beer. He still had one in his hand.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Anything less that 10 games for JO, Artest, and Jax is wrong.

I don't understand those who say JO deserves only 3-5 games.

??!!!??? Yo, Sheed got 7 games for yelling at a ref after the game when both men were off work. 

Nick Van Exel got 6 games for merely shoving a ref cuz of a disagreement.

What JO did was completely unprovoked and without any justification. 10 games at LEAST.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

> Thanks Ron.. You'll get that month long vacation to work on your music career now..


I never thought of that. He may have enhanced his "StreetCred" yo. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a Christian album he was producing. Thug's fo life, yo.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

> What JO did was completely unprovoked and without any justification. 10 games at LEAST.


I understand what you are saying, but I think what JO did was more of an after math of what Artest and Jackson started by running in the stands. Those fans were not on the court to escape the melee in the stands. They were down there to get some licks on Artest.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>furball</b>!
> 
> 
> I understand what you are saying, but I think what JO did was more of an after math of what Artest and Jackson started by running in the stands. Those fans were not on the court to escape the melee in the stands. They were down there to get some licks on Artest.


Agreed,That guy Oneal hit tried to sucker punch Artest...He got what he desreved IMO.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>saugato</b>!
> I think Pistons were absolutely right in what they did. Kudos to Steven and Jermaine for looking after their teammates back. Maybe the biggest punk is is Ben. Never new he was such an *******. I hope the Pistons get peed on in each stadium throught the countrey. Let them come to Oakland. I am going to shoot each one of them


why is this all bens fault? He got fouled hard said some stuff to artest, of course artest said some smart stuff back so Ben pushed him, big deal he didnt ask the fans to throw crap at him, he didnt like the way Artest hit em.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> According to ESPN, the guy O'Neal punched ran out onto the floor and had his fists raised to throw a punch of his own.


Big deal. The fan was an idiot, but he wasn't any threat to O'Neil. O'Neil ran straight for the fan and delivered a haymaker, sliding into him as he delivered the blow. This was a purely aggressive act, not a defensive one. Likewise, Artest punched a fan on the floor before the fan hit him. I'm sure the fan was yelling obscenities at Artest, but the better part of valor would have been to ignore him. Artest was clearly looking for a fight, and couldn't wait to hit someone.

For all of you who are defending the players, I have one question: Can you imagine Jerry West or Bill Walton or Walt Frazier or Bill Russell or any of the great stars from the past plunging into the stands and swinging wildly at fans? I can't. The players today have a ghetto mentality that gets them into trouble time and again. Any real or perceived threat has to be met with equal force. Any sign of "disrespect" has to be challenged. It's sheer stupidity and playground bravado. 

If I were David Stern, I would suspend the three Indiana players for life--not just the rest of the season.


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## TTTT (Nov 17, 2004)

The one thing that is being glossed over here is the real reason there is so much to discuss here in the first place. A total lack of security. Fans throwing beer and debris at players and on the court and if you watched the replays security did nothing but stand and watch. When the fights broke out they still did nothing. Mob violence is a frightening scene to be in the middle of even if you are not the intended target. Suspend and arrest whomever but security is the thing that really needs to improved to prevent future riots.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

In the initial fight thread, I stated that I thought it was the lady in the grey top who through the drink at Artest... Jim Gray (who was standing right next to Ron at the time) reported that it was the guy with the white Wallace shirt who later grabbed Ron from behind and started punching the back of his head. If so, I really hope that guy is facing charges as he's as much responsible for this as anyone.

Of course RArtest will be held accountable too. I expect that most players would go after a fan that they thought hit them in the face with a full cup, but that doesn't make it OK.

The next guy I hold responsible is Big Ben. He massively over reacted to a hard foul. Exhorting the crowd long after the incident waving his arms, throwing a towel, and giving classless _up yours_ gestures... I'm sure he will be held accountable too.

Whoever threw the chair should be locked up for a long while.

IMO the rest of the guys were bit players reacting to an out of control mob scene, and should recieve lessor punishments.

STOMP


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Not end of season for Pacers, we lost by 3 to the Magic w/ 6 players!!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Exactly. You LOST.

Expect more losing.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Exactly. You LOST.
> 
> Expect more losing.


Nathan, just what exactly does "end of season", "expect more losing" mean? Is that the Blazers, Bulls, Clippers, etc., etc. fans' mantra at the beginning of each season?

Give the Pacers fans a break. I may be off-base, but you seem a little pompous, here.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>smeedemann</b>!
> If season long or career long suspensions are handed out for this.......
> 
> Kiss the NBA goodbye!!!
> ...


In my opinion, that's a case the NBAPA would have next to no hope of winning.

I think a court would find that the NBA had met reasonable standards for player safety, using as precedent all other sports leagues and also looking at the history of the league and what is possible.

It isn't possible to prevent fans from throwing things, short of building a bubble around the playing surface, which no league does. Even hockey, with their walls, get things thrown on the ice.

In the history of the league, this hasn't happened before. Players' safety has never been in danger, so it would be essentially impossible to claim that NBA players work in an unsafe environment.

So, based on the state of the industry, I don't think Artest would have a good negligence case against the NBA, unless he could prove that the NBA was unreasonably lax. And nothing put forth so far has shown that.

I will admit, I'm not a lawyer, but one of my best friends is a lawyer and I've discussed these sorts of issues with him a lot.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

"End of the season" is a huge exaggeration. They can kiss a shot at the finals goodbye, but they won't be the worst team in the east just because Artest is out and JO & SJ miss a month or two.


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