# Pacers Trade Talk



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> "There's a lot of work to be done," Carlisle said Friday after a brief team meeting. "There's going to be some changes. We're going to work to make the team better. Any success we had this year was great but we're really in this to win a championship and that should be everyone's goal. …





> To that end, Carlisle addressed a number of issues facing the team, among them:
> 
> * Ron Artest, who he said will be welcomed back with open arms;
> 
> ...





> "I think it's important that our fans understand we're not standing pat," Carlisle said. "We’re going to be proactive in trying to make the team better. There certainly are going to be a lot of possibilities as to how that can be done.
> 
> "It could go a lot of different ways. It's very early in the offseason process. Larry (Bird) and Donnie (Walsh) will be the decision-makers. But I wouldn't rule out anything."


Find out more Pacers news here 

Does anyone have an idea on who we could be trading/trading for? The only real disappointments this year have been Bender and Croshere, but they will be hard to move.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Well I hope that we don't trade any of our core players, because I want them to all make a run together next year. Bender/Croshere...yeah, but we hear that every year. As far as who we trade for, right now I have no clue. I think any trade that we make may involve our draft pick. I just pray we don't trade any of our core players as I stated.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

You guys need a different point guard.....I'm sorry but I don't think tinsley can take you guys too the next level. he's sort-of one dimensional.

Thats the only person I'd trade. 

[strike]{DISCLAIMER}
Everything written above was my honest opinion. It was not intended to offend any Pacer Player, Fan, Scout, Ball-Boy, Trainer, Coach, GM, Owner, Cheerleader, Mascot, or Board Moderator. Everything written below is intended to humor, offend, belittle, berate, amuse, taunt, and "BAIT" all Pacer Players, Fans, Scouts, Ball-Boys, Trainers, Coachs, GM's, Owners, Cheerleaders, Mascots, AND.... BOARD MODERATORS" that have either verbalized, imagined, or thought the Detroit Piston's were lucky last year in their Championship run.
{END OF DISCLAIMER}


Hey, maybe you guys can pull off a miracle trade for Tony Parker. I was thinking since he's from France you guys will have better and more whine.


Now how can you say that was'nt kinda funny[/strike]

*Just because you put that little disclaimer there doesn't mean it isn't baiting. In fact it is just furthering the baiting by pointing out the mods and such. Stop trolling this forum.
*


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> You guys need a different point guard.....I'm sorry but I don't think tinsley can take you guys too the next level. he's sort-of one dimensional.


Even if he can't play defense, I'll keep him since he has the best court vision and passing skills in the league next to Steve Nash and Jason Kidd.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

hmmm...Court Vision? No offence....but hes not even talked about in regards to court vision.

Nash
Kidd
Bibby
Jason Williams
Iverson
Tony Parker
Kirk Hinrich

What are.... (7) point guards having better court vision than Jamal Tinsley, Alex.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> hmmm...Court Vision? No offence....but hes not even talked about in regards to court vision.
> 
> Nash
> Kidd
> ...


Go watch a game before you make assumptions. Just because these players may get more media attention than Tinsley doesn't make them have better court vision. Tinsley makes some plays that I don't see from anyone else except Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, and Jason Williams a couple years ago. I didn't include Williams because the bad plays he makes are equivalent to or more than his good plays.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

hmm.....I've never seen em'. I think most experts would agree with me tho.
no big deal. 

hey are any pacer fans down there questioning Jermaine's toughness.this is serious basketball question, no bs AT ALL. because a few in the national media and quite a few well-repected-basketball fan friends of mine have noticed vanishing acts by him.

just wondering if anyones questioning him. thats what happened here with grant hill.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

TheTruth said:


> hmm.....I've never seen em'. I think most experts would agree with me tho.
> no big deal.
> 
> hey are any pacer fans down there questioning Jermaine's toughness.this is serious basketball question, no bs AT ALL. because a few in the national media and quite a few well-repected-basketball fan friends of mine have noticed vanishing acts by him.
> ...


Considering he was playing in the playoffs with an injured right shoulder which he could have severely injured worse by playing when he shouldn't have been, nope I don't question his toughness at all.

And on a side note, any basketball 'expert' would know that jamaal tinsley's court vision skills are at a very high level, second only to his passing abilities.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> hmm.....I've never seen em'. I think most experts would agree with me tho.
> no big deal.


Incorrect. Go ask these "experts" and see what they say. 



> hey are any pacer fans down there questioning Jermaine's toughness.


If you're referring to the playoffs, his shoulder was badly injured, so he couldn't give his best performance. Remember, he did score 55 points in a game this year.



> this is serious basketball question, no bs AT ALL. because a few in the national media and quite a few well-repected-basketball fan friends of mine have noticed vanishing acts by him.


Yeah, he can be inconsistant at times. Most of the time he'll stay between the 12/5 - 25/10 range.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

I bet tinsley's not there next year....thats my gut shot.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

I dont buy the injuries....blah blah blah....do you have any idea how cortisone shots work. i guarantee he had one or more. and those shots are like miracles. seriously no pain after those.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> I bet tinsley's not there next year....thats my gut shot.


Tinsley and Artest are two players on our team that are just not replacable. They're not going to be moved.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

what trades would you make? what holes do you thinkl your team has


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

I heard Larry has had thoughts about dealing Artest.......


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

TheTruth said:


> I dont buy the injuries....blah blah blah....do you have any idea how cortisone shots work. i guarantee he had one or more. and those shots are like miracles. seriously no pain after those.


Cortizone shots do not get rid of any of the risk of furthering an injury, which was a very real possibility for JO. These type of shoulder injuries take a long time to heal, and if not done correctly, they can ruin a players career. But this is not a thread about JO's shoulder, so let's try to keep the conversation focused on trade discussions.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

TheTruth said:


> I heard Larry has had thoughts about dealing Artest.......



Artest WILL be in a Pacers uniform next year. Bird is well aware of what kind of a player he has in Artest, and he will not give him up. Artest has been working with the team, and he has made it clear that he has grown from the Brawl and that he is all business now.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

The only weakness I can think of that the Pacers need would be a defensive minded point guard comming off the bench.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> what trades would you make? what holes do you thinkl your team has


The Pacers organization is one of the few in the league that likes to stay still and work with what they have, but in one recent article, they said some changes could be made. The most likely trade to happen so far is trading Bender or Croshere and our 1st rounder to a team with cap room for almost nothing. Pollard might be moved, but he's the best player on our team for guarding Shaq. Gill could always be traded/waived, but I think he's a solid 3rd stringer. 3-point shooting is very important to our team. Probably the biggest reason we didn't beat Detroit last year was that we couldn't hit a 3. Tinsley has greatly improved his shot (although that didn't show in the playoffs), Freddie is good at 3's, and the Jackson for Harrington trade helped a lot. We really don't seem to have too many holes. Our inside scoring isn't great, but Harrison should improve, and if Jermaine doesn't constantly take jumpshots, we should be all right. Rebounding is definately covered. Jermaine is all right if he actually goes inside, and Pollard, Foster, and Davis are all very talented rebounders. Defense is covered with Artest back this year. I really don't think we have huge holes, which is why I think we have a good chance at a championship next year.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

PacersguyUSA said:


> The only weakness I can think of that the Pacers need would be a defensive minded point guard comming off the bench.


I think that besides being slow-footed, AJ is pretty good at defense. He's no stopper, but he can hold his own.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

SJ....I know that....cortisone is just a cover up. waht im saying is toughness always supercedes injuries for leaders and great players. I think jermaine will get you guys your championship. but he's still learning how to be a leader. granted the injuries are a factor. but the list is too long for players that have willed their teams to wins in the playoffs injured.


just curioius S JAX....what moves or trades would you make?


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

TheTruth said:


> just curioius S JAX....what moves or trades would you make?


Personally, I love our team the way it is. Bender/Croshere can be traded yeah, but won't get anything in return...so why bother. With Artest back next year, I think we should just pick up where we left off at the beginning of the season...without Miller this time around of course.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> I think jermaine will get you guys your championship. but he's still learning how to be a leader.


If we win a championship, it definately won't be Jermaine leading our team to it emotionally. He may have the biggest offensive impact, but it will be Artest and Jackson firing up the team and leading them.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

i disagree....what i expect from you guys is Jermaine finally finding the "emotion" and "fire" to get you guys there....I dont see it from Jackson....no way no how. or Artest


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

it will be interesting how the team plays without reggie tho.....a whole new basketball team on every level. reggie was sooo much to that team.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> i disagree....what i expect from you guys is Jermaine finally finding the "emotion" and "fire" to get you guys there....I dont see it from Jackson....no way no how. or Artest


There is no way you can't see emotion from Jackson and Artest. Jackson went after his teammate into the stands of Detroit so he wouldn't be killed. That's emotion. Artest used to constantly get in trouble with the league for showing too much emotion when someone would degrade him or his team. Lately, though, if Artest shows any emotion at all he'll get suspended.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

hey...whens the new ron artest rap album coming out? I heard it got some wiket rhymes. fo shizzle. mo dizzle. he should be able to store alot of emotion and leadership from his concerts. true dat.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> hey...whens the new ron artest rap album coming out? I heard it got some wiket rhymes. fo shizzle. mo dizzle. he should be able to store alot of emotion and leadership from his concerts. true dat.


It's already out and from what I've heard, it's horrible. I don't care much for rap, though.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> There is no way you can't see emotion from Jackson and Artest. Jackson went after his teammate into the stands of Detroit so he wouldn't be killed. That's emotion. Artest used to constantly get in trouble with the league for showing too much emotion when someone would degrade him or his team. Lately, though, if Artest shows any emotion at all he'll get suspended.



lol.......holy crap. who opened the retart region in your brain? KILLED! lol Artest wasnt going to be killed. r you serious? Jackson went into the stands because he was raised as a gangsta,you know that, and it was an instinct to fight. had nothing to do with protection. both him and artest were throwing puches at acouple of half-drunk community college students. lol 
Artest is a loose canon...not to be confused with emotion. that guy has people assigned to him to help him keep it together. human brain balancers if you will. this is true. In interviews, he reminds me of mike tyson before he got way out there.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

no hard feeling on that last one.....i get a little wordy sometimes.


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## Interloper (Apr 14, 2004)

What is Bender's contract situation? If the man could ever stay healthy, he wouldn't be so bad...then again, I don't know how much he makes, so...


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> lol.......holy crap. who opened the retart region in your brain? KILLED! lol Artest wasnt going to be killed. r you serious? Jackson went into the stands because he was raised as a gangsta,you know that, and it was an instinct to fight. had nothing to do with protection. both him and artest were throwing puches at acouple of half-drunk community college students. lol
> Artest is a loose canon...not to be confused with emotion. that guy has people assigned to him to help him keep it together. human brain balancers if you will. this is true. In interviews, he reminds me of mike tyson before he got way out there.


If you're going to continue calling our players lunatics and gangsters, I'm not even going to take the time to respond to your posts.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> If you're going to continue calling our players lunatics and gangsters, I'm not even going to take the time to respond to your posts.


I wasnt calling jackson a lunatic. and i just said he was raised as a gangster. 
I think jackson is a great shooting guard. I just dont think hes a leader as much as you do. did you know it was tim duncan that requested they move jackson from san antonio. now artest......you dont realize this because 1. you are 15 and 2. because you are a fan of indy. but ron artest, talented albeit, is a loose canon.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Interloper said:


> What is Bender's contract situation? If the man could ever stay healthy, he wouldn't be so bad...then again, I don't know how much he makes, so...


Hoopshype says that it's $21,300,000 over the next 3 years. Our team doesn't like to go too far over the cap (notice dumping Brad Miller for Scot Pollard), so it's likely he could be traded. If he stays healthy, he won't be horrible. He's still not a very good player when he is healthy. He has the athleticism he's had throughout his career (it may diminish now with his knee) which enables him to block shots and dunk, but you'd think that after this many years in the league he might be able to get a jumpshot, a post game, or some man-to-man defensive skills.


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## Interloper (Apr 14, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Hoopshype says that it's $21,300,000 over the next 3 years. Our team doesn't like to go too far over the cap (notice dumping Brad Miller for Scot Pollard), so it's likely he could be traded. If he stays healthy, he won't be horrible. He's still not a very good player when he is healthy. He has the athleticism he's had throughout his career (it may diminish now with his knee) which enables him to block shots and dunk, but you'd think that after this many years in the league he might be able to get a jumpshot, a post game, or some man-to-man defensive skills.


Ugh...$21.3M over the next three season. There goes my idea of wanting the Bulls to acquire him and take a chance on him. That's just too much money for a player who can't put it all together, but I still believe he would be at least a good role player if he stayed healthy.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> did you know it was tim duncan that requested they move jackson from san antonio.


Tim Duncan is a more shy, quiet player. I wouldn't think he'd like a Stephen Jackson very much



> now artest......you dont realize this because 1. you are 15 and 2. because you are a fan of indy. but ron artest, talented albeit, is a loose canon.


1. I am 14, not 15, and what does that have to do with anything?

2. Being a fan of Indy means I get to see more games than you. I see what's done to Artest to provoke him, and I know that the majority of the things that have happened to him since the '03 off season are not caused by him just being a "loose cannon".


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Interloper said:


> Ugh...$21.3M over the next three season. There goes my idea of wanting the Bulls to acquire him and take a chance on him. That's just too much money for a player who can't put it all together, but I still believe he would be at least a good role player if he stayed healthy.


That's why the first-rounder would have to be included for a team to take a chance on him. The Bulls might have enough young talent right now that they don't need another first rounder and their cap space depleted.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I wish the Pacers would make a couple of trades, but I don't think we CAN make any major trades short of blowing up the team entirely (which we won't do). This season has soured me a bit on Jermaine O'Neal (whines too much, takes too many low-percentage shots, gets hurt a lot, not that great of a rebounder) but the only way he gets traded is if we trade him for a better big man, and why would another team trade someone better than Jermaine O'Neal for Jermaine O'Neal? Obviously, they wouldn't, so O'Neal is going nowhere.

Jamaal Tinsley won't be traded either because he has a poison pill contract that makes it nearly impossible to trade him until next summer. He's another guy whose stock has fallen in my eyes, because he absolutely cannot stay healthy.

Ron Artest could be traded I guess, but I think Bird and Walsh realize that he's the best player on the team and the Pacers just aren't that good of a team without him. They want to give him one more chance to bring it. If he has another wasted season like this one or 2002-03 though, he'll be dumped in an even more lopsided trade than Dennis Rodman for Will Perdue.

Stephen Jackson is a guy I want to keep. He makes dumb plays sometimes, and thinks he can dribble even though he can't, but he's a guy who wants to win as badly as anyone in the league and you can always count on him giving 100 percent on both ends of the floor. His performance the last couple months of the season and in the playoffs was way beyond what I expected from him when we traded for him.

All four of these guys will most likely be back next year and as long as they are, we basically have the same team. I expect to see a minor trade or two -- maybe Pollard's contract and our first round pick for a good big man off the bench -- but nothing huge.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

RP McMurphy said:


> maybe Pollard's contract and our first round pick for a good big man off the bench


Who would you be talking about as a good big man off the bench? We don't have that many roster spots at the 4/5 positions. Personally, I think Davis, Harrison, Pollard, Jermaine, Foster, and Croshere gives us a good big man rotation. Although, if Davis leaves/retires, that could change.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I do think we need another big man. Austin Croshere and Scot Pollard are not good enough to be getting minutes on a team that wants to win a championship. and I don't think Dale Davis has that much left in the tank. I'm really grateful we got him because we wouldn't have made the playoffs without him, but he was already wearing down by the end of the year. He won't play more than 10-15 minutes per game next year, assuming we even re-sign him. And David Harrison, who the hell knows what's up with him, he seemed to get worse and worse as the season went on.

The big problem with our big men is other than O'Neal, none of them can shoot.

One trade idea I saw someone else propose was Pollard, Bender, and our first round pick for Joe Smith. The Bucks are rebuilding and have no use for an overpaid veteran like Smith, and if they can't get any good free agents to sign with them, this is a good way for them to get a first round pick without giving up very much. Smith would be our best big man off the bench and he'd get around 24 or 30 minutes per game. Lorenzen Wright is another guy I could see us getting. We won't be looking for big names here, just solid veterans who can come off the bench and give us more depth up front.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

RP McMurphy said:


> This season has soured me a bit on Jermaine O'Neal (whines too much, takes too many low-percentage shots, gets hurt a lot, not that great of a rebounder) .


Holy Crapenpants BATMAN! finally someone with a fully functioning, reached the age-of-reasoning, somewhat adult brain. thank you murph..... "whines too much".......... aside from my personal feelings for the pistons its true.




RP McMurphy said:


> Ron Artest could be traded I guess, but I think Bird and Walsh realize that he's the best player on the team and the Pacers just aren't that good of a team without him. .


If bird can replace the talent and remove the baggage he will. guaranteed. truth is alot of teams dont want to take a chance on him. bird has already shopped him. I'm sure you know that.





RP McMurphy said:


> They want to give him one more chance to bring it. If he has another wasted season like this one or 2002-03 though, he'll be dumped in an even more lopsided trade than Dennis Rodman for Will Perdue..


True dat.....get on wit your bad self murph. I was going to draw the same similarities between rodman and artest. cant keep it together.




RP McMurphy said:


> Stephen Jackson is a guy I want to keep. He makes dumb plays sometimes, ..


"3" point shot in the waning moments of game 6


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

RP McMurphy said:


> One trade idea I saw someone else propose was Pollard, Bender, and our first round pick for Joe Smith.



NOOOO......dont ask for this!!!!! no way will joe smith work in the indiana/carlisle system. If you remember, Detroit had Smith for a year and he stunk up the court. and detroit and indy are somewhat similar. as far as that goes.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

RP McMurphy said:


> Austin Croshere and Scot Pollard are not good enough to be getting minutes on a team that wants to win a championship.


Pollard was playing great earlier this year before he injured his back. I'm hoping that continues next year. The reason I want to keep Croshere is not for how good he is, but for how he plays. He's a PF who can spread the floor and nail 3's, and is a good team defender. 



> and I don't think Dale Davis has that much left in the tank. I'm really grateful we got him because we wouldn't have made the playoffs without him, but he was already wearing down by the end of the year. He won't play more than 10-15 minutes per game next year, assuming we even re-sign him.


I agree with this. I made a post about this probably a month ago and got mostly disagreements. In the playoffs he seemed to disappear, especially against Detroit, but that left room for Jeff Foster.



> And David Harrison, who the hell knows what's up with him, he seemed to get worse and worse as the season went on.


That's typical with most rookies.



> The big problem with our big men is other than O'Neal, none of them can shoot.


There's always Croshere, but some days he just can't hit anything. This is why Pollard and Foster worked on their jumpshots so much over the summer. You wouldn't want them taking the shot, but if they're wide, which most teams will leave them, they have a good chance of making it.



> One trade idea I saw someone else propose was Pollard, Bender, and our first round pick for Joe Smith. The Bucks are rebuilding and have no use for an overpaid veteran like Smith, and if they can't get any good free agents to sign with them, this is a good way for them to get a first round pick without giving up very much. Smith would be our best big man off the bench and he'd get around 24 or 30 minutes per game. Lorenzen Wright is another guy I could see us getting. We won't be looking for big names here, just solid veterans who can come off the bench and give us more depth up front.


I definately like Joe Smith, but I'm not too fond of Lorenzen Wright.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> NOOOO......dont ask for this!!!!! no way will joe smith work in the indiana/carlisle system. If you remember, Detroit had Smith for a year and he stunk up the court. and detroit and indy are somewhat similar. as far as that goes.


They aren't that similar. Detroit is a better defensive team (not by much) and Indiana is a better offensive team. Indiana has a system of 3 scorers and a lot of role players, while with Detroit, everyone scores, or at least attempts to.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> They aren't that similar. Detroit is a better defensive team (not by much) and Indiana is a better offensive team. Indiana has a system of 3 scorers and a lot of role players, while with Detroit, everyone scores, or at least attempts to.


*Don't insult other posters*.

They are a similar as teams can get....i did not say exact.

Detroit is a better defensive team (BY A FRICKIN TON!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Detroit is a better offensive team (NOT BY MUCH!!!!!!!)

Detroit EVERYONE scores!!!!!!!! PERIOD


kid, you are no expert by a long shot....take off the INDY PACERS sunshine glasses and see the nba as a whole for the first time. and that glare your getting...its not the sun..its from the larry o'brien trophy up here in D-TOWN


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

TheTruth said:


> Holy Crapenpants BATMAN! finally someone with a fully functioning, reached the age-of-reasoning, somewhat adult brain. thank you murph..... "whines too much".......... aside from my personal feelings for the pistons its true.


Just the fact that he whines isn't that big of a deal, Tim Duncan is the best player in the NBA and he whines just as much as O'Neal does. But when Duncan is whining, he's still playing his game. When O'Neal is whining he's likely to try to prove a point and try to take over the game, taking bad shots instead of making smart passes. 

I don't know why you're so shocked to hear a Pacers fan say the things that I said, there are a lot of Pacers fans who don't like the direction the Pacers are going. They think this team has too many headcases to win a championship, and is destined to have a good regular season but lose in the playoffs every year. I wouldn't go quite that far, but I see where they're coming from. I mean, we were supposed to be one of the best teams in the NBA this year, but instead we went 44-38 and lost in the second round. You shouldn't be surprised at all that a lot of Pacers fans are disappointed in our players. But you've clearly decided that almost all Pacers fans are biased idiots who think their team is better and more mature than it is. I suggest losing that attitude if you want to continue posting on this message board.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

TheTruth said:


> Detroit is a better defensive team (BY A FRICKIN TON!!!!!!!!!!!!)


Detroit has a combination of Ben Wallace, good defensive plays, and good help defenders. Indiana has two shot blockers (Jermaine and Harrison), 2 people great at steals (Tinsley and Artest), good defenders (Freddie and Jackson), a great defensive coach, and very good rebounders (Foster, Pollard, and Davis). Now I'm not calling Indiana better, because no one can beat a combo of team defenders and Ben Wallace. Indiana is pretty close to the top of the league when it comes to defense.



> Detroit is a better offensive team (NOT BY MUCH!!!!!!!)


No team which runs the ball through Ben Wallace is a better offensive team than Indiana.

Now that we've been through the brawl and Detroit-Indiana comparisons, can we get back on topic?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> And then there's Jamaal Tinsley, the player the Pacers should work hardest to trade.
> 
> Tinsley's got a few strikes against him.
> 
> ...


Read more of Bob Kravitz here 



> Acquiring a big-name free agent is out the question because the Pacers are over the salary cap.
> 
> The best way for them to improve is by making a trade or selecting an impact player with the No. 17 pick in next month's NBA draft. The Pacers currently have 13 players under contract for next season and they want to re-sign James Jones and Dale Davis.
> 
> ...


http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050522/SPORTS04/505220463/1088

Why does everyone suddenly want to trade Tinsley? Does anyone remember before he injured his foot, how great a season he was having? This was arguably his best season ever. I'd rather have Tinsley for half a season than trading him for a less-talented PG and letting Anthony Johnson ruin our offense for more minutes per game.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Projected 2005-06 roster

<table border="0" frame="box" rules="all" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="related">*Pos.*</td> <td class="related">*Player*</td> <td class="related">*Signed through*</td> <td class="related">*2005-06 salary*</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">F</td> <td class="related">Jermaine O'Neal</td> <td class="related">2009-10</td> <td class="related">$16.4 million</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">F</td> <td class="related">Austin Croshere</td> <td class="related">2006-07</td> <td class="related">$7.9 million</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">F</td> <td class="related">Jonathan Bender</td> <td class="related">2006-07</td> <td class="related">$7.1 million</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">F</td> <td class="related">Ron Artest</td> <td class="related">2008-09</td> <td class="related">$6.5 million</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">C</td> <td class="related">Scot Pollard</td> <td class="related">2005-06</td> <td class="related">$6.2 million</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">G</td> <td class="related">Jamaal Tinsley</td> <td class="related">2010-11</td> <td class="related">$5.4 million</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">G</td> <td class="related">Stephen Jackson</td> <td class="related">2009-10</td> <td class="related">$5.3 million</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">C</td> <td class="related">Jeff Foster</td> <td class="related">2008-09</td> <td class="related">$4.7 million</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">G</td> <td class="related">Anthony Johnson</td> <td class="related">2007-08</td> <td class="related">$2.6 million</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">G</td> <td class="related">Fred Jones</td> <td class="related">2005-06</td> <td class="related">$2.3 million</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">G</td> <td class="related">Eddie Gill</td> <td class="related">2005-06</td> <td class="related">$870,546</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">C</td> <td class="related">David Harrison</td> <td class="related">2008-09</td> <td class="related">$690,960</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Free agents

<table border="0" frame="box" rules="all" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="related">*Pos.*</td> <td class="related">*Player*</td> <td class="related">*2004-05 stats*</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">C</td> <td class="related">Dale Davis</td> <td class="related">6.9 ppg, 8.9 rpg*</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">C</td> <td class="related">John Edwards</td> <td class="related">1.2 ppg, 0.8 rpg</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">F</td> <td class="related">James Jones</td> <td class="related">4.9 ppg, 2.3 rpg</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

* -- as a Pacer

Projected starting lineup

<table border="0" frame="box" rules="all" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="related">*Pos.*</td> <td class="related">*Player*</td> <td class="related">*2004-05 stats*</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">F</td> <td class="related">Jermaine O'Neal</td> <td class="related">24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">F</td> <td class="related">Ron Artest</td> <td class="related">24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">C</td> <td class="related">Jeff Foster</td> <td class="related">7.0 ppg, 9.0 rpg</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#dddddd"> <td class="related">G</td> <td class="related">Stephen Jackson</td> <td class="related">18.7 ppg, 4.9 rpg</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="related">G</td> <td class="related">Jamaal Tinsley</td> <td class="related">15.4 ppg, 6.4 apg</td></tr></tbody> </table> 
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050522/SPORTS04/505220463/1088


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

1. The only type of player the Pacers "need" is a guy like Lindsay Hunter or Mike James.

2. I don't think Dale Davis was wearing down in the playoffs. The only time he looked bad was in the Detroit series, and that was when the refs were making 3 bad foul calls on him a night.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Pacers Fan said:


> Why does everyone suddenly want to trade Tinsley? Does anyone remember before he injured his foot, how great a season he was having? This was arguably his best season ever. I'd rather have Tinsley for half a season than trading him for a less-talented PG and letting Anthony Johnson ruin our offense for more minutes per game.


Having an injury-prone PG like Tinsley means Anthony Johnson plays *more* minutes, not less, because Johnson starts whenever Tinsley is injured.

I know how good Tinsley is, he's incredible. There's not a defender in the league who can keep him out of the lane. But I'd rather have Antonio Daniels for 82 games than Tinsley for 41 and Anthony Johnson for 41.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

RP McMurphy said:


> Having an injury-prone PG like Tinsley means Anthony Johnson plays *more* minutes, not less, because Johnson starts whenever Tinsley is injured.


Actually, Freddie Jones started a lot when Tinsley was out ahead of Anthony Johnson. If Tinsley gets hurt again this year, I'd expect them to do the same. Jones isn't that great a PG, but I'd rather have the ball in his hands than Johnson's.


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> Detroit has a combination of Ben Wallace, good defensive plays, and good help defenders. Indiana has two shot blockers (Jermaine and Harrison), 2 people great at steals (Tinsley and Artest), good defenders (Freddie and Jackson), a great defensive coach, and very good rebounders (Foster, Pollard, and Davis). Now I'm not calling Indiana better, because no one can beat a combo of team defenders and Ben Wallace. Indiana is pretty close to the top of the league when it comes to defense.?


Detroit - (3) shot blockers: Ben, Rasheed, and frickin' TAYSHAWN. you guys know that guy right......at least reggie does i know.

Detroit - Far superior to indy in steals

Detroit - The best help defending team in the league.

Detroit - The best rebounder, and tay and sheed are better than foster and pollard....lol


Detroit, San Antonio, and the Bulls are better than indy on "D".




Pacers Fan said:


> No team which runs the ball through Ben Wallace is a better offensive team than Indiana.
> 
> Now that we've been through the brawl and Detroit-Indiana comparisons, can we get back on topic?



lol........this shows just how much you know. We dont run the ball through BEN! are you knidding me. If were going low post we go with Sheed' or Tay' depending on the matchup. then we run through Chauncey or Rip before Ben also. come on......catch up here "Rainman".

Matchup's

Center

Detroit- Ben Wallace, Rasheed,Elden
Indy -Foster,Harrison,Pollard

lol....Im thinkin Detroit

Power Forward

Detroit-Sheed,Dyess
Indy-O'neal,Croshere

Push.....Maybe Indy....but considering Sheed won us one and O'Neal's done nothing I'd take Detroit.

Small Forward

Detroit-Tayshaun,dupree,Ham
Indy-Artest,Jones

Push

Shooting Guard

Detroit-Hamilton,Hunter,Billups(when Arroyo Runs Point. we all know he can shoot)
Indy-Jackson,Fred Jones

Detroit....not even close

Point Guard

Detroit-Billups,Arroyo,Hunter
Indy-Tinsley,Gill,Johnson

This ones a Joke...
DETROIT


Bench

Detroit.....hands down


So I would say detroits offense is better than Indy's.....and remember you guys just lost the glue that held your team together and willed you guys to the playoffs last year......Reggie of course


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

I'm not even going to bother responding to that. If you want to continue this Detroit vs Indiana arguement, feel free to start a topic on it. For now, this is going way off topic.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

I really hope we do a significant trade, although I don't wanna see Artest go anywhere, hopefully we'll trade our draft pick and some1 like pollard or Croshere 4 something but if we don't we'll still be better than the sorry a^^ pistons come next year...........

GO PACERS!!!!

REGGIE MILLER IS THE REASON I BLEED BLUE & GOLD.....
I'LL MISS U 4EVER SUPERMAN AKA KNICK KILLER


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

*No personal attacks on members.*


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

dang you guys are quick..........


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Matchups (how it really should be):

Center

*Detroit- Ben Wallace, Rasheed, Elden*
Indy - Foster,Harrison,Pollard

Power Forward

Detroit-Sheed,Dyess
*Indy-O'neal,Croshere*

Small Forward

Detroit-Tayshaun, Dupree,Ham
*Indy-Artest, Jones*

Shooting Guard

Detroit-Hamilton, Hunter
*Indy-Jackson, Fred Jones*

Point Guard

*Detroit-Billups,Arroyo,Hunter*

Bench

Indiana.....hands down

Coach:

Detroit


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

[strike]U should just be happy and glad U get 2 see your team 4 one more series, so enjoy it now cause soon it'll be boooo hooo..... and come next season it'll be more cries... no more Larry Brown and sorry excuse 4 human beings in Detroit...

P.S. tell me how good u think Detroit is without your MVP.....{Larry Brown}, who took a bunch of mediocre players and turned them in2 champions....
no more of that.....booo hoooo!!!!!![/strike]


GO PACERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*The same rules apply for Pacers fans. Do not insult a fanbase or another member.*


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Matchups (how it really should be):
> 
> Center
> 
> ...


SG- *{no personal attacks}*......reggie even passed it on to rip....not jackson. he doesnt even like jackson


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> U should just be happy and glad U get 2 see your team 4 one more series, so enjoy it now cause soon it'll be boooo hooo..... and come next season it'll be more cries... no more Larry Brown and sorry excuse 4 human beings in Detroit...
> 
> P.S. tell me how good u think Detroit is without your MVP.....{Larry Brown}, who took a bunch of mediocre players and turned them in2 champions....
> no more of that.....booo hoooo!!!!!!
> ...



everyone here knows i know how to reply to attacks.....but your stuff is just a waste of time and unremarkable. yea and i witnessed all of the playoff games last year in person....how bout them apples


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

TheTruth said:


> everyone here knows i know how to reply to attacks.....but your stuff is just a waste of time and unremarkable. yea and i witnessed all of the playoff games last year in person....how bout them apples


Yeah if u say so, but how come u still did not answer my ? ....
how good do u think Detroit is without Larry Brown, do u really think they would of won last year if it was not 4 him and him alone??


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## TheTruth (Mar 17, 2005)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Yeah if u say so, but how come u still did not answer my ? ....
> how good do u think Detroit is without Larry Brown, do u really think they would of won last year if it was not 4 him and him alone??



I know so and I can prove it "smartypants". (I'm sorry about the childish names, but It's all they'll let me say in here. You know the internet...we have to keep it wholesome. lol)

the answer is yes.....what do you think carlilse is a miracle worker also. if you think the pistons are mediocre you are simply a biased fan. any unbiased fan and player knows the pistons are the real deal. i'll side with "AI" he said the pistons are the most talented in the league. hmm....I wonder who knows more.........go away [strike]poopeypants[/strike] 

*Please, let's stop the namecalling, regardless of the terminology. And this is a Pacers TRADE thread. Stop with the petty pistons/pacers bickering. I will simply delete any non-trade related post in this thread from this point on.*


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Supposedly Bender is suppose to be in LA on Friday.. Who knows..


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Brian34Cook said:


> Supposedly Bender is suppose to be in LA on Friday.. Who knows..



Any source for this?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> Any source for this?


It was posted on the Lakers forum and on the indystar messageboards. Someone here proposed the deal a few weeks ago and it seemed pretty good. I'd definately do


> Devean George , Slava Medvedenko or Brian Cook and either 2-#2's in 2005 or a #2 in 2005 and a future #1


 for Bender and #17. This also helps us with re-signing James Jones.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> It was posted on the Lakers forum and on the indystar messageboards. Someone here proposed the deal a few weeks ago and it seemed pretty good. I'd definately do for Bender and #17. This also helps us with re-signing James Jones.




The only player I really like at all in that deal is Cook. Definitely do not want devean george on this team.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> The only player I really like at all in that deal is Cook. Definitely do not want devean george on this team.


Talent is not exactly the part of the deal. Bender and our 1st equals out to about zero and Medvedenko, George, and some picks equals out to more.


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## DannyGranger33 (May 12, 2005)

StephenJackson said:


> Artest WILL be in a Pacers uniform next year. Bird is well aware of what kind of a player he has in Artest, and he will not give him up. Artest has been working with the team, and he has made it clear that he has grown from the Brawl and that he is all business now.


 How many times have we heard that before?

Artest has learned from (blank) and has grown from it..

No.. he hasnt! He's a head case. The team would be better off without him, assuming Donnie/Bird actually gets talent back for him. (i.e. not a Brad Miller trade).

Artest is probably the best defensive player in the game, if not the best then Top 3. But his temper kills this team every year.


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## DannyGranger33 (May 12, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> It was posted on the Lakers forum and on the indystar messageboards. Someone here proposed the deal a few weeks ago and it seemed pretty good. I'd definately do for Bender and #17. This also helps us with re-signing James Jones.


 I'm all for getting rid of Bender's useless a** ... but to get two useless guys for one useless guy? No thanks.

Not to mention we're dumping our 1st rounder - when we can get a pretty good player at that pick.


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## DannyGranger33 (May 12, 2005)

> Free agency? Forget it. The Pacers are already over the salary cap, in part because of some dubious signings by team chief executive Donnie Walsh. Believe it or not, Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere are the second- and third-highest paid players on the roster.


Actually I think the best move for the team would be pushing Donnie Walsh into retirement.

Man hasn't made a good decision since the Jalen Rose trade.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

DannyGranger33 said:


> But his temper kills this team every year.


His temper only killed us this year...


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DannyGranger33 said:


> The team would be better off without him, assuming Donnie/Bird actually gets talent back for him. (i.e. not a Brad Miller trade).


The most a team would offer for Artest would be a Shane Battier.



> I'm all for getting rid of Bender's useless a** ... but to get two useless guys for one useless guy? No thanks.


Medvedenko is actually decent. If we don't trade Bender or Croshere, it's likely James Jones won't be re-signed



> Actually I think the best move for the team would be pushing Donnie Walsh into retirement.
> 
> Man hasn't made a good decision since the Jalen Rose trade.


Care to name which decisions he has made which haven't been good besides the Croshere and Bender contracts?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

The Pacers still haven't worked out a player or have planned a workout. The Bender deal seems even more likely now.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

If we get Slava Medvedenko...........that would suck.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DannyGranger33 said:


> Actually I think the best move for the team would be pushing Donnie Walsh into retirement.
> 
> Man hasn't made a good decision since the Jalen Rose trade.


That wasnt too long ago, and was our last big trade. I think Harrington for Jackson was a good one too.


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