# Allen Iverson, not a ballhog after all



## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

Before the qualifying tournament so many people were trying to say that Iverson would have trouble sharing the ball with his USA teammates. He has proved all those people completely wrong, he is in the top 6 in the tournament in assists. This goes to show you that Iverson is an unselfish player when he has talent around him, something he does not have in Philly. put him on Sacramento and replace Bibby, and you will see a team that is looking to 3 peat as champs. For those who think Iverson has changed so much from the NBA season, he hasn't he is still the same player. When he goes back to Sixers you'll see the same 25 shots a game, yes he has Glenn Robinson, but besides that who do the Sixers have to score? Surround Iverson with talent and you will see a player that can dominate a game either scoring or passing. But with these Sixers we just have to settle for the occasional 50 point outburst, just so he can tell of us that he is still the best scorer in the NBA.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

I knew he'd be fine...the doubters were proven inaccurate, and the ASG was an indication of how Allen can cooperate with other stars.


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## Attila (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> Surround Iverson with talent and you will see a player that can dominate a game either scoring or passing.


 Does that mean that Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, and Toni Kukoc are all untalented?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Re: Allen Iverson, not a ballhog after all*



> Originally posted by <b>Attila</b>!
> 
> 
> Does that mean that Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, and Toni Kukoc are all untalented?


YES. Not only were they all untalented when they were playing with the Sixers, they also have proven to be horrible teammates(Stackhouse particularly). Toni Kukoc was the best fit of the 3 but he couldn't play enough D to convince Larry Brown to play him.
I hate how people try to say these guys are anything special and it's somehow Iverson's fault that they didn't stick in Philly. Iverson wasn't in Washington last year when Stackhouse sulked. He wasn't in Golden State when Larry Hughes couldn't find a position. And Kukoc still plays the bench in Milwuakee.

Larry Brown didn't like these guys. They didn't play basketball anywhere close to the right way. It's less that Iverson couldn't play with them, and more that they were schmuck players.

As far as the thread. Yep. Tho. I think we will see a diffrent Iverson next year. He had changed his game after the all-star game last year and has really become a reincarnation of Isiah Thomas. I think you'll see him playing more and more point guard this year.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: Allen Iverson, not a ballhog after all*



> Originally posted by <b>Attila</b>!
> Does that mean that Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, and Toni Kukoc are all untalented?


were any of them as good as glenn robinson is right now when they played with iverson? i don't think so. and he still only had one at a time. that's the same with having robinson. iverson is still going to take a lot of shots. iverson is going to play the game the sixers need him to play to win. when he only has one good option to pass it to, that means he is going to shoot the ball a lot.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

Being a ball hog doesn't always mean you shoot to much, it can also mean that you have to have the ball in your hands so add shot attempts + assists + TO and that will tell you who the biggest ball hogs are. Also some players like AI, Kobe, TMac have to be ballhogs because there is no one else on the team who can handle the ball.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

The ball-hog tag didn't come around until after Stackhouse left. While Stackhouse was there and he actually had a reliable scorer to feed, Iverson was getting a good share of dimes (almost 8apg). Then Stack got hurt, and the assist numbers dwindled a bit, then people started calling him a ball-hog because he didn't pass enough to guys like Larry Hughes and Tim Thomas, who are two of the biggest underachievers in the NBA (in my book anyways).

Everytime I see Iverson in a setting with talented SCORERS on his team (all-star games and now the olympics), I always see him making good passes and the word ball-hog never comes to mind.

This year, however, if Big Dog and Kenny Thomas are both healthy and contributing, it might be inexcusable for Iverson to take 2,000 shots over the course of the season again.


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## mofo202 (Apr 28, 2003)

Iverson was never a ballhog. When he has scoring power on his team other than himself he's a great passer. He is also the toughest guy in the L.


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

AI aint a ball hog. Thats the 6ers style of play.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mofo202</b>!
> Iverson was never a ballhog. When he has scoring power on his team other than himself he's a great passer. He is also the toughest guy in the L.


:greatjob: I love it when fans can see that Kobe, Iverson, TMac , etc. are not ballhogs. They do what they can to help their team is what I see when I watch them play.


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## Sir Magic Boi (Aug 6, 2003)

Kobe is a ballhaog.


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## Laker4peat (Aug 30, 2003)

Yeah man Im glad that his ballhogging style has stuffed the Lakers up bad enough to 3peat<strike> you fvcking retard.</strike>(no namecalling! thanks.trm)


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sir Magic Boi</b>!
> Kobe is a ballhaog.


Really? What makes him a ballhog? List the ways that make Kobe a ballhog and not an Iverson, TMac, Vince, or any of the other high scoring guards/swingmen.


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## solo (Nov 29, 2002)

Iverson is not a ballhog. He's a scorer. Why is he hated for doing what comes natural to him, and that he does well. Does anyone hate on the runningback who pushes for every yard he can get?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> Really? What makes him a ballhog? List the ways that make Kobe a ballhog and not an Iverson, TMac, Vince, or any of the other high scoring guards/swingmen.


Because Kobe has Shaq. And for Kobe to take any shot down the floor without first dumping it in to Shaq is selfish. Kobe needs to realize he's scottie pippen and Shaq is Jordan. Know your role.

Iverson and T-Mac are fullfiling team roles.

Kobe seems like he's freelancing out there too much. At least if you listen to Tex Winter and Phil Jackson and Shaq and every other laker tell it.

Notice on AI and T-Mac's team, no one complains about them shooting too much--but on the lakers, that's pretty much the topic of discussion for most of the last two seasons.

Kobe is the only guy I've seen that can throw a selfish assist.


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Kobe is the only guy I've seen that can throw a selfish assist.


*cough* Ricky Davis *cough*

But I agree with you about Kobe.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Because Kobe has Shaq. And for Kobe to take any shot down the floor without first dumping it in to Shaq is selfish. Kobe needs to realize he's scottie pippen and Shaq is Jordan. Know your role.
> ...


I think if Shaq got the ball every time down court it would be bad for the Lakers and bad for Shaq. Shaq takes a beating during the course of the season, now imagine if he got the ball every time down court, the beating he would take would double. The fact that Kobe will shoot without giving Shaq the ball, adds a sense of unpredictability to the Laker offense. A team can't just sit back in a zone and make sure two guys are around Shaq at all times, because then that would just open everything up for Kobe. Kobe was trying to be unselfish at the beginning of the year when the Lakers were, what 3-8? That unselfishness didn't work because that team just isn't talented enough. Kobe's style of play has gotten the Lakers 3 titles, I guess it isn't the wrong style for the team.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> I think if Shaq got the ball every time down court it would be bad for the Lakers and bad for Shaq. Shaq takes a beating during the course of the season, now imagine if he got the ball every time down court, the beating he would take would double. The fact that Kobe will shoot without giving Shaq the ball, adds a sense of unpredictability to the Laker offense. A team can't just sit back in a zone and make sure two guys are around Shaq at all times, because then that would just open everything up for Kobe. Kobe was trying to be unselfish at the beginning of the year when the Lakers were, what 3-8? That unselfishness didn't work because that team just isn't talented enough. Kobe's style of play has gotten the Lakers 3 titles, I guess it isn't the wrong style for the team.


Why would Shaq take a beating just getting the ball every time down?(granted I'm exaggerating, but Shaq should get a touch 80 percent of the time). Shaq gives beatings, he doesn't really take them. I'm not saying Shaq has to score everytime either or try to score. But the triangle seems to run more effectively when you put the ball in the post and actually set up a triangle, as opposed to just coming down and jacking up an impossible shot with two guys in your face from just inside the three-point line.

Shaq is a pretty good passer and demands so much attention that the lakers would be alot harder to stop if they used him as much as the coaches and everyone but Kobe wants to.

There are like 5 centers in the league, and only like 2 or 3 that can give Shaq anything resembling problems. It's wrongheaded selfishness to not even try that option just so you can take a fadeaway in the corner over a defender like Kobe sometimes opts to do.

That's how I see it anyhow. As someone who roots against the lakers on a regular basis, I'm always rooting for Kobe to take his shots because it's always bad news when Shaq gets the ball on the block. Every possession that the opposing team doesn't have to deal with Shaq is a good possession.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

I think he is making reference to hack-a-Shaq and similar styles of play... He is prone to getting fouled and those could lead to injury no matter how strong he is. His hand is as easy to break as a guy 75 pounds lighter... as are his feet (getting stepped on from double and triple teams).

-Petey


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Because Kobe has Shaq. And for Kobe to take any shot down the floor without first dumping it in to Shaq is selfish. Kobe needs to realize he's scottie pippen and Shaq is Jordan. Know your role.
> ...


:yes:


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Thats where the Lakers problem could get infinitly worse next year. Last season they had that problem of Kobe not getting it into Shaq before shooting the ball. After a certain point it was understood because Shaq wasnt the normal Shaq were used to, he was out of shape and slow. BUT, Kobes going to come back next season in his prime, Shaqs going to come back in better shape than ever from what Laker fans tell me. So there could really be a problem there, if Shaq doesnt touch the ball every time down the court, he'd be upset. But Kobes in his prime at superstar status and deserves to shoot the ball when he chooses...oh then you got Malone and Payton to keep happy at 15+ shots a game each. I'm very skeptical about the Lakers next season. And like futuristxen said, as a person who roots against the Lakers, the thing I like to see is Kobe get in selfish mode and start denying shaq of the ball.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

<i>quote: 
Originally posted by futuristxen!

Kobe is the only guy I've seen that can throw a selfish assist 
</i>

You and I just don't "see" the game played the same way, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject of some big time scorers being selfish.

To me, when one is a good to great shooter/scorer and does NOT take the open shot - they are selfish, as they then put undue pressure on their less able teammates.<b> THAT is total selfishness, imho.</b>


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> <i>quote:
> Originally posted by futuristxen!
> 
> ...


I think he meant selfish as in the way of getting his triple double or attempt at it, when the game was so close in score last season. Remember how big a debate that turned into?

-Petey


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## Hilary_Duff (Aug 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LMAO, exactly wasnt he like 10th in the league in assists or something?


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> I think he meant selfish as in the way of getting his triple double or attempt at it, when the game was so close in score last season. Remember how big a debate that turned into?
> ...



yes, I realize how he "meant" selfishness, but I guess I view that topic differently than most fans.


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## Hilary_Duff (Aug 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> I knew he'd be fine...the doubters were proven inaccurate, and the ASG was an indication of how Allen can cooperate with other stars.


no


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Rifleman, how do you define ballhog? To me it's a guy that is subjectating team goals so he can monopolize the stat box by dominating the ball.

Which I think at times, fits Kobe.

I don't think it fits, Iverson or T-Mac.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

I think Iverson's assists should rise next year and they should experiment with him at the point more often.


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