# Is Vince Carter a HoF lock?



## freedomfichte (Sep 26, 2013)

If he plays next year, he'll be in the top 25 all time scoring. No titles, but he made a huge impact for the league overall. One of the most popular players during the MJ-second-retirement lull. 2000 Dunk Contest, nuff said.

But he's not a good defender, and generally considered soft. Any chance he gets left out? I'm thinking if Dantley is in, VC has to be.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

Definitely not a lock. He has a case though.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

freedomfichte said:


> If he plays next year, he'll be in the top 25 all time scoring. No titles, but he made a huge impact for the league overall. One of the most popular players during the MJ-second-retirement lull. 2000 Dunk Contest, nuff said.
> 
> But he's not a good defender, and generally considered soft. Any chance he gets left out? I'm thinking if Dantley is in, VC has to be.


You like dunks, huh?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I'd like to see him make it. A lot of people dislike him and for good reason, but he in my books was bar none the most exciting player to watch when he was up and coming.

He was doing dunks that didn't even make sense. In game. As a superstar. People talk up Lebron dunks, which is hilarious because its not even close dunk wise. The best dunkers since have all been scrubs and even then they couldn't touch a prime Vince.

Vince is the greatest dunker of all time, but obviously dunking alone can't get you in. For a while you could argue Kobe, TMac and Vince for best 2 guard in the league though. I found basketball back then to be so much more exciting than it is now. Maybe that nostalgia is clouding my judgement.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

R-Star said:


> I'd like to see him make it. A lot of people dislike him and for good reason, but he in my books was bar none the most exciting player to watch when he was up and coming.
> 
> He was doing dunks that didn't even make sense. In game. As a superstar. People talk up Lebron dunks, which is hilarious because its not even close dunk wise. The best dunkers since have all been scrubs and even then they couldn't touch a prime Vince.
> 
> Vince is the greatest dunker of all time, but obviously dunking alone can't get you in. For a while you could argue Kobe, TMac and Vince for best 2 guard in the league though. I found basketball back then to be so much more exciting than it is now. *Maybe that nostalgia is clouding my judgement*.


It is.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

He'll get in, though not likely on the first ballot. 

He'll be most-remembered for dunks, but it's not as if he has no credentials outside of that. He's not Harold Minor. There are dozens upon dozens of worse basketball players in the HOF.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> It is.


Hes had a very memorable career with HOF quality stats during a good chunk of it. What you write off as my nostalgia could easily be turned around as blind Vince hate on your end.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Hes had a very memorable career with HOF quality stats during a good chunk of it. What you write off as my nostalgia could easily be turned around as blind Vince hate on your end.


Vince Carter's basketball Honors:

1995 McDonald's All American
1997-98 NCAA AP All-America (2nd)
1998-99 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

Not too impressive, IMHO.
And yes, it must be nostalgic. Cause "For a while you could argue Kobe, TMac and Vince for best 2 guard in the league though" never happened.


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## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

As far as I know the basketball HOF has been pretty lenient on what it takes to get in, so based on that I would say yes. If they were as stringent as say the baseball HOF I don't think he gets in


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I think overall T-Mac had a better career than Vince. Both didn't achieve much in the playoffs but at least T-Mac won scoring titles and made NBA 1st teams (2). So If Vince is in the HOF then I hope T-Mac makes it in as well.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Is Ray Allen a HoF?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> I think overall T-Mac had a better career than Vince. Both didn't achieve much in the playoffs but at least T-Mac won scoring titles and made NBA 1st teams (2). So If Vince is in the HOF then I hope T-Mac makes it in as well.


I would vote for both, but I think Carter is more likely to get in than McGrady. 


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

I think TMac gets in if Vince gets in.


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## freedomfichte (Sep 26, 2013)

PauloCatarino said:


> You like dunks, huh?


Chicks dig the long ball. But yea, VC is easily in the top 5 dunkers ever. Puts a nice gloss on those nearly 23k points




GNG said:


> He'll get in, though not likely on the first ballot.
> 
> He'll be most-remembered for dunks, but it's not as if he has no credentials outside of that. He's not Harold Minor. There are dozens upon dozens of worse basketball players in the HOF.


Yea this is basically my point. I wouldn't consider Vince one of my favorite players but I'm using his case to better understand HOF criteria. And it seems like he compares favorably to at least, say, the bottom quarter of Hall of Famers.




PauloCatarino said:


> Vince Carter's basketball Honors:
> 
> 1995 McDonald's All American
> 1997-98 NCAA AP All-America (2nd)
> ...


Again, back to Hall of Famer Dantley on this metric:

2x All-American in college
'77 ROY
6x All-Star (Vince Carter is 8x, fwiw)
2x All-NBA Second Team (never made first team)
2x scoring champion (Carter has 0, of course)

Both have Olympic golds. They seem very similar to me: sustained excellence, irrelevant in the postseason, fading away at the end.




seifer0406 said:


> I think overall T-Mac had a better career than Vince. Both didn't achieve much in the playoffs but at least T-Mac won scoring titles and made NBA 1st teams (2). So If Vince is in the HOF then I hope T-Mac makes it in as well.


This makes sense to me but I'm not sure if anyone else agrees?




PauloCatarino said:


> Is Ray Allen a HoF?


Is this a serious question? I ask because I'm not sure how you argue that he's not.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> Is Ray Allen a HoF?


Of course.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

GNG said:


> Of course.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I know the basketball HOF's criteria for inducting players are somewhat loose, and they select players that really aren't the "top of the top" basketball players.

With that in mind, what are the elements brought into the equation? I'll say something like:
- College career; 
- NBA career;
- Overall contributions (international ball, records, championships, etc.).

Regarding Vince Carter, the thing that stands out the most in retrospect is his dunking (He scored plenty but was a bad shooter/scorer).
He wasn't a dominant College player, as far as i know.
He was never one of the top players in the NBA (All-Nba selections listed above), only once being a Top-10 MVP candidade (#10).
His teams didn't win that much.

Guys like Ray Allen and Adrian Dantley (similar in all-Nba awards) had something else. Allen won championships and his a record-holder for his shooting. Dantley led the league in scoring (and was a top scorer for a few seasons more) and even once in PER (if that matters).

Now, if the HOF is the place for the "very good basketball players" with "interesting careers", then by all means.

Ray Allen won championships and is one of the greatest shooters ever.
Dantley was one of the great offensive players of his era.
Carter? Well...


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Way to write off Carters career for team USA.

And I'm glad Ray Allens "Me too!" championship he coat tailed to counts for a lot in your books. It doesn't in mine.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I would be surprised if he didn't get in. There are worse Hall of Famers in there. He might never have developed into what we all thought he had the potential to be, but he was still very good for a while.

Also, Ray Allen is easily a Hall of Famer.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

does he go in as a Raptor or as a Net?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Way to write off Carters career for team USA.


It would only be relevant if Jasikevičius had made the game-winning 3! 



> And I'm glad Ray Allens "Me too!" championship he coat tailed to counts for a lot in your books. It doesn't in mine.


It doesn't in mine. But he would probably matter to the Hof.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

If Vince Carter never gets into the Hall of Fame, he'll be the highest-scoring player in NBA history not to.

He's an eight-time All-Star (and probably deserving, most years) with 22,000 points and counting. He's made All-NBA teams and won Rookie of the Year.

I'm no huge fan of the guy, but he will get in the Hall of Fame eventually. Might as well embrace it, PC.

Ray Allen's a no-brainer Hall of Fame lock.


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