# top 8 2003 Draft prospects at each position:



## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

PG:
1. Luke Ridnour- Stockton with some White Chocolate.
2. Kirk Hinrich- rounded skills, great shooter, knock is his D.
3. Chris Duhon- not Isiah II as he's being dubbed,but good.
4. Cedric Bozeman-6-7,could be a lotto pick, smooth old school G.
5. Raymond Felton- scoring G, similar to Starbury.
6. Chris Thomas- reminds me of Tony Parker. quick.
7. Marcus Moore-6-6 smooth old school, not 1/2 man as Bozeman.
8. Sani Becirovic- will have one year starting at PG for Kinder.

SG:
1. Lebron James- any way you look at it he's #1.
2. Rickey Paulding- athletic, good shooter, and good defender.
3. James White- athletic, and is flying to a court near you.
4. Carlos Delfino- Doug Christie II + 2'', great D, nice stroke.
5. Jarvis Hayes- VC with better shot and less athleticism.
6. Reece Gains- combo G, not quite a 2 but not a 1.
7. Zoran Planinic- Jiri Welsch II, sweet stroke, very skinny.
8. Dwayne Wade- too small at 6-3, similar to Arenas.

SF:
1. Carmelo Anthony- reminds me of Lucious Harris, but most of Caron Butler
2. Travis Outlaw- Darius Miles II, but will he declare?
3. Blagota Sekulic- rising fast, SG/SF/PF he does it all.
4. Rick Rickert- ultimately a KVH SF.
5. Darius Rice- 2003 sleeper pick award receiver.
6. Mickael Pietrus- SF/SG, Corey Maggette II, great D and hops.
7. Victor Khriapa- great scorer, similar to Hedo Turkoglu.
8. Luke Walton- the Lakers picked him 3 years ago:grinning:, #29 pick.

PF:
1. Maciej Lampe- does it all, similar to Gasol.
2. Anderson Varejao- tall,long, and likes to initiate contact.
3. Chris Bosh- more like Moiso than KG.
4. Emeka Okafor- good by virtue of only his D.
5. Ronny Turiaf-French,athletic, good D. 3rd Pietrus brother? 
6. Nick Collison- solid, like Mark Madsen with O in place of D.
7. Pape Sow- like Hilario but not quite the defender.
8. Charlie Villanueva- KG or Leon Smith?

C:
1. Kosta Perovic- 7-2 defensive monster, similar to young Sabonis.
2. Kresimir Loncar- smmooooth, great O, needs more strength.
3. Eduardo Sonseca-Hernandez- great shot-blocker,decent O.
4. James Lang- big athlete whose agile, no predictions:grinning:,Baby Shaq number MCLVII.
5. Chris Marcus- underrated, great agility for a tree, solid.
6. Zaur Pachulia-Georgian taught like a Turk, great D.
7. Kendrick Perkins- shouldn't declare but will, only 6-8 or 6-9.
8*. David Harrison- more of a Lafrentz PF than a tough C.
8*.Jackie Butler- mini-Zo but too raw to jump to NBA.

*-Tie


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

I move Collison up to top 2 at PF. 

Hinrich has good D. Noone knows it, but he plays some nice D.

I think Harrison is more physical than Raef and I do not see the comparison for him and Raef.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

First off I would put Duhon above Kirk and Luke because ball hawk defenders at the PG spot are really hard to find. And Duhon has just as much if not more offensive ability than them. And where it TJ Ford on your list, I would take him over Kirk and Luke to. And why do people call Ridnour the next Stockton, well I promise you that Ridnour will never even come close to the assits and steals John has racked up over the years, what is it, because they are both white?

And Rickert is not a Keith VanHorn type player, Keith doesn't have a post game, Rick does, he has great feet down low and a ton of moves, have you watched him play? And Rick will probably end up a better ball handler than Keith is. And you are really dumb saying Collison is Mark Madsen like? Mark Madsen is probably the worst player in the NBA easy! Collison is a 6-10 260 4 that has a very very solid game and is always consistent, and Mark did not get picked in the lottery like Nick will be. 

And sorry to say but Perkins is not 6-8 or 6-9, and he will be a top 3 pick, he has a ton of skill, and if he looks small well he is still growing, remember he is still in high school.

And where the hell did you see all of these foregin ballers? Do you actually know who they are? Or are you just going off of what others have said, have you see them play 1 or more games?


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*Harrison/Raef comparison*

Harrison is similar to Raef becuase both have offensive games that are centered on a perimeter game, both are sub-par rebounders for centers, both do not like physicallity(although Harrison seems less bothered), the both lack a post game, and on D they both tend to overcommit and let their man get past them.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

some good stuff.i would rate hinrich's defense better than one would think and collison has nothing in common with madsen(well almost nothing).lastly to the comment that ridnour doesnt compare to stockton i would disagree.i think ridnour has a lot of johns traits,pass first then shoot.he's more stockton than say steve nash if one s comparing people.keep up the good(s) work.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*re: Ozzy*

I have Fox Sports Europe and the Euroleague package, as well as the Italian League package on my computer. I've seen all of them play and I've got to say from what I saw of Kosta Perovic, he's going to be great. Collison is only 6-9 230 not 6-10 260, Perkins is only 6-8 or 6-9 (he's being listed at 6-8 and 1/2 right now), and Duhon's O is not even close to Ridnour's and Hinrich's, TJ Ford is not even a 1st round lock right now, and Ridnour is similar to Stockton becuase the way he runs the team on the floor.......so be a little more factual before you blurt out BS.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Harrison/Raef comparison*



> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> Harrison is similar to Raef becuase both have offensive games that are centered on a perimeter game, both are sub-par rebounders for centers, both do not like physicallity(although Harrison seems less bothered), the both lack a post game, and on D they both tend to overcommit and let their man get past them.


I still think you are SO wrong on the comparison. One is that Harrison is a true center, and Raef is a true PF. I don't think David Harrison is mostly centered on the Premiter game. For rebounding, Raef is a true PF not Center. He is average rebounder. Harrison well not sure about his rebounding. Harrison may not like the phyical game, but the way he played vs KU, he was very physical. He was very physical genelly. I live in big 12 country, and I see him play on a consitstent basis. I just can not comapre the players sorry. no comparison.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Blurt out BS?????

Well Collison is 250 maybe not 260, but no way in hell is he 230 lbs, and he has a lot more skill than you give him credit for!!!!!

And Chris Duhon is a better PG than Kirk and Luke, he playes defense, and sorry you can't find PG's that play defense that tight to often.

And the thing about Luke seeing the floor, well TJ Ford led the Nation in assists last year, I would say that is seeing the floor won't you? He is faster than Kirk or Luke, he is quicker and I think he has as much or more of a feel for the game than them, and remember he is way younger also, he will be a lottery pick when he comes out.

It is great that you watch alot of euro ball, but don't over hype players from what they do over there, yeah some are good but some can't play the pro game.

And don't forget Aaron Miles, the great FROSH PG for Kansas.

(And just a question that I'm wondering if you know, why do NBA teams draft players from over seas so often? What is the real reason for it?) 
P.S. The answer for this question came right out of the mouth of Marty Blake when I talked to him on the phone!


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## UNCStateGuy (Jul 17, 2002)

Luke Ridnour is not the next John Stockton. Stockton is a player than only comes around about every 50 years. I ask you honestly how much difference is their between Ridnour and Dan Dickau? Lets also remember how much hype Brett Nelson recieved last year and right now he's not even a second rounder in some mocks. I don't see Ridnour, Hinrich or Duhon being a lottery picks next year. 

I like Kirk Hinrich but I think his defense is underrated. First off, both him and Boschee picked up the defense at half-court almost every time. Both players also played incredibly tight defense. Their never was much room between Hinrich and his defender with the ball. By doing this, you are much more likely to get blown by but your also much more likely to force a turnover (which Kansas did a lot starting the break). Chris Duhon and Jason Williams played this way as well. It's a great way to keep the up tempo game going because you force the offensive player to make a play very quickly. This is total opposite of the way Steve Logan and Lynn Greer played defense. Sometimes people look to much in the numbers and think that Kansas wasn't a good defense team last year because they put allowed a lot of points. I see it a lot different because that is their style of play.

No Julius Hodge? I think he continues to improve he is a lottery pick next year. 6'5" and can handle both points spots. He hit some clutch shots for the Wolfpack last year and should great leadership for a only a freshman. A lot of people, me included, think he is a better prospect than Bozeman, who BTW isn't 6'7". More like 6'5"-6'6".

Raymond Felton also not just a scoring guard. He's a great all around player and a wonderful passer. The knocks on his game right now are a streaky outside shot (his form isn't textbook) and his height (He's barely 6'0" on a good day). Comparing him to Marbury doesn't serve either player justice either. Marbury was bigger and probably more athletic, while Felton is a much better playmaker and passer. 

Travis Outlaw as the second best SF? Never seen him play but the word around is that he is not much more than a dunker right now. 

Rick Rickert will be very good as well. He has incredible post moves, can handle the ball and shoot the outside jumper - all at 6'10". All he needs to do is comtinue to improve and hit the weights. 

Darius Rice a sleeper? How, the kid has been hyped since his senior year of high school. Everybody seen the kid. His tall and athletic, but his shot and ball handling are suspect, he needs to add strength and his perimeter defense has plenty of work needed.

I wouldn't compare Bosh to Moiso or KG yet. He is super long and is very athletic. He has a nice touch around the basket. Give him time and he will fill out his frame. Hopefully, he stays at least two years.

Nick Collison is mucher better than number 6. He has the best post moves in college basketball, he can shoot the mid-range jumper and he is an underrated athlete. He looks pretty impressive catching those alley's last year and he manages to get a ton of rebounds despite playing alongside Gooden and Simeon. I think he could be a lottery pick next year.

Charlie Villanueva- KG or Leon Smith? Neither. Hopefully, Villanueva goes to school because he has the rare combination of size and perimeter skills.

James Lang is a little high. I think a lot of people are getting caught up in his hype. Let's remember that this kid has only just recently began to show pro potential and that he is still ranked behind a lot of other big men.

I like Chris Marcus a lot better than a lot of other people do. Is he a stiff? Yeah in a way. But he is more athletic and stronger than Brad Miller. He's raw but because of his size, he should contribute from day one. 

I heard a lot of different things about Zaur Pachulia but most people bill him as a PF. He is listed at 6'11" by most people so he is more than likely only 6'9" or 6'10".

Perkins isn't 6'10". Numerous reports have said this. Most recently Telep reported from ABCD camp than Perkins was a shade shorter than Jackie Butler and neither were quite 6'10". He is still a legit prospect as a PF though. I don't expect top 3 but lottery is a possibility.


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## Smac (Aug 6, 2002)

Ozzy- I don't agree with your statement that overseas players shouldn't be judged by their performance in europe. many of the leagues over there are much more competitive than the NCAA and light years ahead of US high school ball. i'm also wondering as to why you asked about the recent interest in "overseas" players. i assume that teams are drafting these players because they're good. i'm not sure what you think, but some people believe that GMs have ulterior motives in drafting euros because they're white and think that this will attract more fans, etc. (this, of course, ignores the fact that players from Asia, South America, and Africa have all been drafted by the NBA). I don't think it has anything to do with race, it's just that european leagues are much more developed than others in the world. when asia, south america, and africa catch up to europe and the US, i'm sure that teams will draft talented players regardless of whether they're white, asian, hispanic, or black.

the goods- how do you get coverage of the euroleagues? how much does it cost?


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## CoolHandLuke (Jun 8, 2002)

I have a MAJOR problem with your comments on Reece Gaines. You say that he's not quite a two but not a one. The guy is a true point guard. He's as true of a point as there comes. He'd be a pro prospect if he was 6-2. You only say that because he's 6-6. That's just an added bonus. Have you even seen him play? I've seen every game he's played in college, and I guarantee you, he's just as much of a point guard as Luke Ridnour is a point guard. And I have a hard time seeing somebody like Reece, who's projected by experts as a lottery pick, 6th at his position. You didn't even have the right position for him. 

Also, Dwyane Wade is 6-4, not 6-3. Marquette has historically been accurate with their heights as well. 

Where's T.J. Ford? And I think that Ford and Felton are clearly the two top PG prospects in college basketball, with Duhon maybe in the same class as them. Your big men rankings, there's no other way to describe them: They're crap. One or two foreign prospects in each category, MAYBE. Awful list of big men.


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## UNCStateGuy (Jul 17, 2002)

I agree with Luke that Reece Gaines will be an NBA PG. He quicker than Hodge, Bozeman and a lot of 6'0" PG's. My problem with him is that he is a gunner. He has very little sense of the team game and I wouldn't consider him a playmaker. He is a good ball handler, deadly shooter and terrific athlete though. If I were a team I would be concerned about his leadership abilities and off the court problems, though.

As for were he is ranked. Luke is right that a lot of experts have him penciled in as a top 15 prospect. I think he will end up falling some from that but I think he still stands a good chance to be a first round pick. NBA scouts are going to expect some big things from Reece this year but he certainly does have the potential. He more athletic and a better shooter than John Salmons, who went in the first round this year. 

Luke, I don't consider Ford much of an NBA prospect right now, either. Again he's under 6 foot with a suspect outside shot. He weighs about 160 pounds soaking wet. He is an incredible playmaker but again remember that NBA scouts aren't friendly towards young point guards. Marcus Taylor, Omar Cook and Erick Barkley are all three examples of this in the last three years. I personally think both him and Felton will stay for at least the 2003-2004 season before making the jump and I think that will really benefit both players.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

we have a lot of smart people here arguing over things that are too hard to predict right now.a lot of these issues are going to have to play out.what we do know is that things are pretty watered down over the last few years.americans seem to lack some fundamentals and the european influence isnt going to slow down for some time.one thing i have noticed is a lot of people,myself included,seem to jump on our favorite teams players bandwagons and downplay guys that go to schools we dont really like.maybe its just me so i will speak for myself.peace brothers


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## Mem-fizz (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> I have Fox Sports Europe and the Euroleague package, as well as the Italian League package on my computer. I've seen all of them play and I've got to say from what I saw of Kosta Perovic, he's going to be great.


Have you seen play Lampe, Pietrus, Varejao, Hernández-Sonseca, Perovic, Pachulia, Khriapa... living out of Europe???.

I don´t know about Fox Sports Europe and your Euroleague and Italian league package. Some of this guys never played just a minute in Euroleague nor Italian league. Lampe, your listed top PF, just played 22 minutes in Euroleague: three games, 7 Mpg, garbage minutes..., you watched those games???. 
Euroleague is about 200 games, how many of them did you really watch??.

I want to believe you are just kidding. Maybe you have seen some of these players, but... all of them??.

I think you really have not seen any of them. You make your statements just reading some websites, and using your imagination... that´s funny.


(BTW: I live in Europe, I have spanish, french, italian, german, english, american and some others tv channels and it´s no easy watch all these young prospects)


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Well the answer to why GM's in the NBA are drafting more euro talent simple. It came from the mouth of the worlds greatest scout Marty Blake when I talked to him.

He said that NBA teams pick forigen players because the europe teams develop them, the forigen teams teach them everything and when they are good they come over here. And why don't overseas ballers come to the states and play college ball, well they get paid a lot of money over there to play, even at ages like 15 and 16. So obviously they are not coming over here and playing college ball. But GM's would rather have another team teach a young player that doing it with a team. It is almost the same thing as all the high schoolers coming out, they come out and get drafted then the team has to develop them themselves, but if they are a forigen player then they can just sit back and compete in the NBA with a full playing roster, and the europe team is teaching there prospect from no cost to the US team. Because they get paid over there to.

That is what he said, I was always wondering why, and that cleared everything up for me, it is a economic decision. And he also said that there are not centers in the USA at all, all of them are overseas and that to is a reason why. And he said "all we (US players) want to do it dunk the ball", so he saying euro ballers have more skills and know the game better. But that can be debated and I don't see it that way, overseas they have a ton of big men but US player dunk because they are athletic enough to do so well.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Mem-Fizz*

Mem-Fizz, I ranked Lampe based on what I've seen and what I think. If you take Pau Gasol and stretch him wider, while compacting him down a bit, you get Lampe. Like Gasol, Lampe is best suited creating his own shot by attacking the basket, both are good shot-blockers and rebounders, and both are very solid shooters although Lampe has more range.....If Lampe starts next year for Real Madrid I think he'll have a breakout season like Gasol did.
As for Perovic, his offense is quite raw but he already shows an affinity to playing in the post, and his D and rebounding is superior to his age level and could be among the tops in Europe if he gets PT and shows his stuff. His shot-blocking and passing is really what makes me like him, he shows flashes of young Sabonis without the range.
As for Varejao, I've seen him play several times and his length, activity, and court sense are great, but his greatest skill is his passion. He plays the game like it's meant to be played, he gives it his all.
As for Pachulia, he hasn't had a breakout game like Skeeta and Edu have, but offense isn't his skill. He's a tough defender and a good rebounder, and a very good shot-blocker.
Edu speaks for himself he showed with his 28 point game that he isn't just a shot-blocker and rebounder. He can play the post, but he needs 20 more lbs for the NBA.
Khryapa is very similar to Boki (Bostjan Nachbar). Boki didn't really have any real NBA chance until this year when he elevated his game and became a very solid NBA prospect. Khryapa is very similar to that and his game also resembles Boki, he will climb and Khryapa should find himself in the mid-first. Although if I'm a GM and Khryapa and Drejer are on the board, I'd have to think about but I'd proabably end up taking Drejer because his game resembles Szcerbiak and he really has more potential.
Mickael Pietrus- I was real big on him starting 2 years ago. I saw him play a little and he looked like Corey Maggette out there. I really think if he could get a consistant shot he'd be a lotto pick. For now I think he's a first round lock but he really needs his shot to climb into the lotto. I'd take him over Diaw Riffiod, Khryapa, Drejer, and the other swingmen in his age group.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> 4. Cedric Bozeman-6-7,could be a lotto pick, smooth old school G.


From what I saw of this kid last year, he was awful. Give him at least a productive season before hyping him for the NBA. 



> 5. Raymond Felton- scoring G, similar to Starbury.


He is similar to Marbury in his scoring ability and athleticism, but don't forget that Felton is also a great passer. In the McD's game, all he did was pass and from that alone it was obvious he was the best guard on the floor. 



> 7. Marcus Moore-6-6 smooth old school, not 1/2 man as Bozeman.


Who is this guy? 



> 8. Dwayne Wade- too small at 6-3, similar to Arenas.


Time to watch a Marquette game...Wade is nothing like Arenas at all, other than their height and position. Arenas was smooth, but I wouldn't call him a super-athelete by any stretch of the imagination. Wade is one of the top 5 most athletic SG's in the country. Also, check out Wade's wingspan before knocking his size. He averaged over a block per game last season because of it. 



> 1. Carmelo Anthony- reminds me of Lucious Harris, but most of Caron Butler


Anthony is no way, shape or form like Harris. There isn't a single aspect of Anthony's game that in any way resembles Harris'. Anthony has excellent size for his position, Harris is undersized. Anthony is an insane athlete, Harris has never impressed anbody with speed or leaping ability. Harris is a sharpshooter, while Anthony needs to work on his perimeter shot. Where are you getting this stuff? 



> 2. Travis Outlaw- Darius Miles II, but will he declare?


I haven't heard anyone make this comparison. Outlaw is an athlete with little else for game. This can be said about a lot of players. How does this make him Darius Miles II? 



> 3. Chris Bosh- more like Moiso than KG.


Bosh is no Jerome Moiso. While he might not be KG, he actually has game. Moiso is incredibly soft, and shies away from contact down low. I haven't seen this in Bosh. What stops him from developing into an NBA player over the next couple of seasons? 



> 5. Ronny Turiaf-French,athletic, good D. 3rd Pietrus brother?


Turiaf showed a lot in his freshman year, but he isn't even close to the fifth best PF prospect in the country. He's closer to the 5th best player on his own team. I agree he will improve a lot this season, but he's a four-year guy. He might be a first rounder in a couple of years. 

If you want to hype a developing soph who is primed for a breakout year, why not go with Wayne Simien? He was incredible in limited minutes last year, and actually looked like he was ready to star, where other prospects (like Bozeman, White, Turiaf) will have to noticeably improve their games to stand out. All Simien needs is the playing time, which he will get this year at KU. 



> 8. Charlie Villanueva- KG or Leon Smith?


Everything I've read says this guy is a way better pro prospect than Travis Outlaw. And I've never heard anything about attitude problems, either.


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## UNCStateGuy (Jul 17, 2002)

Wayne Simeon's potential is actually quite limited. He's listed at only 6'8" and he might not even be that. He looks like a college superstar but lets also remember that Lonny Baxter, Udonis Haslem, Sam Clancy and many other 6'7"-6'8" guys were college superstars but none of them were super NBA prospects. Wayne potential for improvement is limited because he isn't an elite athlete and he doesn't have the body to be am NBA 3. 

Also, Anthony is a good athlete but he isn't insane. He isn't the athlete James White or Gerald Wallace was and personally I believe that Evan Burns is a better athlete. Anthony only has ok size for the wing (good size would be 6'9"-6'10" and Anthony is only is probably a shade shorter than 6'7") too. His all-around game is what makes him different than White, Wallace or Burns though. He can handle the ball, he has a repectable outside shot, he can post up and he actually will mix it up inside the lane. I agree that he isn't Caron Butler or Lucious Harris. 

Bozeman had a tough job last year. He was a combo guard who was forced to play point on a team that had final four expectations. He is more a scorer to at this point of his career and last year he was forced to be a playmaker. I agree though that he is a couple of years away from being a lottey pick.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*re*

Cedric Bozeman- I went to almost every UCLA home-game and I can tell you that his shot is weak at best, but his shot selection is great, his passing is among the best in the nation, he's a great defender, and he's 6-7. Also he's more athletic than he showed because he was recovering from his ACL surgery

Marcus Moore- he is a junior (or soph?) PG for the Washington Huskies. He showed leadership and a nice shot, and he's a very decent playmaker, but he lacks D. He's a slightly upgraded version of Jerryl Sasser (but he has a better shot than Sasser).

Ronny Turiaf- I went to several Peperdine games, and I must tell you his stats don't tell the story. Although his O is limited right now, he is a super defender and a great rebounder,shot-blocker, and athlete. He's very similar to Bo Outlaw, the way he plays hard and energetically, except he's a better offensive player than Bo. Also don't forget Ronny just turned 19 last month.

Chris Bosh- he is soft like Moiso, the key is strength, but like Moiso he's both blessed and cursed by a fast metabolism.

Dwayne Wade- first of all Arenas is a super athlete, and Wade's long arms won't help him that much. His knocks are his D and his streaky shot. Also he doesn't seem to like to pass to teammates even though he can effeciently set them up. On another note Jason Terry comparisons are moot here because Terry was a backup *PG* a Arizona behind Mike Bibby before breaking out his senior season. 

Charlie Villanueva- he's good but he doesn't play D and he's not a good rebounder, nor is he a great athelte. I give Outlaw the nod over him, but it's like taking D Miles over Tim Thomas, both have potential you just need to pick your style.

Travis Outlaw- he is a super athlete, maybe even more so than D Miles. Also he's a very good rebounder and a great shot-blocker. His O is raw but out to 17' he's effective.

Carmelo Anthony- I say he like Lucious Harris because both are 6-6 (and change) SF/SFs and both are instant offense, but neither plays D, and both are streaky shooters. 'Melo has a post game and is a better passer but Harris is more explosive, although Anthony is more athletic (he just is kind of lazy).


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## Mem-fizz (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: Mem-Fizz*



> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> Mem-Fizz, I ranked Lampe based on what I've seen and what I think. If you take Pau Gasol and stretch him wider, while compacting him down a bit, you get Lampe. Like Gasol, Lampe is best suited creating his own shot by attacking the basket, both are good shot-blockers and rebounders, and both are very solid shooters although Lampe has more range.....If Lampe starts next year for Real Madrid I think he'll have a breakout season like Gasol did.
> As for Perovic, his offense is quite raw but he already shows an affinity to playing in the post, and his D and rebounding is superior to his age level and could be among the tops in Europe if he gets PT and shows his stuff. His shot-blocking and passing is really what makes me like him, he shows flashes of young Sabonis without the range.
> As for Varejao, I've seen him play several times and his length, activity, and court sense are great, but his greatest skill is his passion. He plays the game like it's meant to be played, he gives it his all.
> ...


Thanks for these profiles, but you are just proving what I said: You are taking information from here and there and, after this, you let work your imagination... once again, what have you seen about Lampe???.

I will not argue about your opinions. I say you said you watch all these foreign players on Fox Sports Europe and Euroleague and Italian league package, and this is not possible. You are looking like you have first-hand information about these players because you have seen play "all of them", but some big mistakes on your profiles prove you havn´t.
I´ll give you some of them (this way you can add some new information you will give us on next days):
-Lampe starting next year with Real Madrid??????? NO WAY. Obviously you don´t know Real Madrid neither Spanish league nor Euroleague level. Lampe will be in the official roster (he was in Real Madrid 2nd team -farmer league- last year). Mumbrú will play 3 and Derrick Alston will play 4, Lampe will be not even in the ten players rotation.
-When had Skeeta a breakout game???? His best game last season was against Trieste (mid-level team of Italian league), 5/16/2002, 15 points in 17 minutes. Benetton won 118-90...

Your thoughts, profiles, evaluations and comparisons are yours, so I´ll not discuss about them.


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

I don't know about all foreign players, but I know a lot about Varejao. I am a brazilian and so is he. I have watched him playing a lot in the national league and in the National Team. He is really amazing and I can say he will make a big impact in NBA. He has much more skills then Nene Hilario, another player that I know very well, but he have to improve physically, get more strong.
He knows how to play the game and he plays with passion and I love to watch him at the court. You will see what I am saying in the World Championship in Indiana.

I hope everyone understand my english, sorry if I made a lot of mistakes.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*Telebasket*

I know that most of the game with these players aren't televised, but telebasket.com records and posts most games, the quality isn't great but it works at least...And aas for Lampe everyone is pitching off of a hunch with him, he's not as proven as Skeeta and would do himself a favor to wait until at least 2004....but he won't....And as for Perovic, I've made sure to seek out every bit of footage on him from tournaments, etc. and he is *my* top prospect in Europe...you just can't teach 7-2 soon to be 7-4 (by the Mem-Fizz if you know his actual b-day I'd appreciate, I can't seem to find it anywhere).


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

*USA ballers*

Lets stick to talking about USA ballers, overseas guys are fine but the ones everyone are talking about in here will probably not step foot in the stats to play ball for another 2-5 years. So lets think of they guys here that will be in the NBA in a year or two.

Mario Austin: Great size and is built very well, very solid 4 prospect just needs to work on his offensive game, he De is fine.

What about Troy Bell, he is a smart floor general that can run a team, he has a very good offensive game and is a leader, very competitive player and has the sweetest free throw shot in college basketball-he shoots like 90% up all year. And he has a ok build, has gotten bigger since he came to BC, just needs to have another solid year and he will be a lock for the first round.

Also, what is all this **** about TJ Ford being a bad NBA prospect? He is quick as lighting, great handle, student of the game, leads his team, and sees things better than anyone in college basketball. Yeah he is small and scouts don't like that but there are alot more things about him scouts would like than don't. NBA teams need a leader at PG, and those are very hard to find, they need PG that set up the team and keep the offense going and TJ might be the best at doing that. Yeah he is small and only about 170 but he does have some pretty good hops and is very athletic even though he is skinny right now. It is kind of like Jason Gardner, he is a great leader at the PG but he is small and short, but TJ is way more athletic than Jason is and that will put him in the first round.

Okafor is not getting enough credit either, the NBA every team needs and wants a shot blocker and Okafor is one, a very good one at that. And yeah he doesn't have a offensive game but remember he is only a FROSH soon to be a SOPH, so he has time to learn and get a offensive game. But that shot blocking ability might just put him at the top of the group of incoming PF's.

Isma'il Muhammad is a big time prospect to! He is really athletic and if he grows into his frame he will be a good 3 on the wings. Can really attack the hoop and in tough down low.

And just a thought Jawad Williams will be a lottery pick if he gets a jump shot, he has everything else he is 6-9 215 and has a super handle for a guy that size. He will be a big timer some day if he gets a jump shot, has all the tools for a big SFin the NBA. And getting better at defense would not hurt him either.

P.S. Antonio Lawrence is a big timer, he can dunk just as good as Vince and should be showing up in the NBA either after his 2 years in JUCO or after he goes to a D1 college for one or two years. But I think you will be hearing of him in the draft some day


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## starbonis (Aug 7, 2002)

*A*

As a French avid of basketball, I can only say that it's really hard to have images of Euroleague !!!!.
So claiming that you see Euro prospects is really hard to believe, but it can be true.
Now some consideration about Lampe. This young man has talent for sure. He is now with Real Madrid. But he won't play a lot, as he has an ego problem. On the court he is always complaining about his teammates, the fact that he doesn't get the ball enough. With such an attitude (Gimme ball, I am an NBA prospect huh !) he will soon be punched by Euro veteran. Believe me, you don't go at 18 to Real and think the club is yours, or you have a strong problem of consideration for the players in place.

Few words about Danish Drejer: sure he is the best propesct of Danemark...but it's Danemark, anyone can give me the last big Baller from this country. If he was that good he would have been engaged by a Eurogreat (like Real, Virtus...). See him at Florida
Considering Florent Pietrus: as said before I am French and I'd like him to succes in the NBA, but the problem about him is that he has a real robotic ball-handling. He won't just make it in the NBa with his outrageous athlecism.

The "Most obscure prospect Award" goes to Georgian wonder from Basco Batumi ballclub: Sergo Atuashvili born in 1985 and already 2.20 and playing on national team


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## UNCStateGuy (Jul 17, 2002)

I'm in agreement with sticking to mostly American players. Last year everybody was talking about Sani Becirovic and he ended up not even declaring. A couple months ahead of the draft, we should have a better understanding of which players are looked at as NBA prospects and others aren't. Still, I don't mind occasional updates on players or profiles on new players.

As a Carolina fan, I can tell you that Jawad Williams is a ways away from being a lottery pick. He's about only about 6'8" 210 and his perimeter game needs much more work than just shooting. His ball handling and passing need improvement and in general he just needs to be more consistenct. I think by 2004 he will be a legit first round prospect but right now I think NBA teams just look at him as an undersized post player with a little potential.

My knocks on Troy Bell and TJ Ford are that their are just better points out their right now. Both are undersized (Ford would be one of the smallest players in the NBA and probably would weigh the least). Bell is an excellent free throw shooter but I I question his playmaking skills and his defense. Usually there is only 3 or 4 points taken in the first round and usually at most their is only one undersized one. Teams like bigger points (Hodge, Bozeman, Moore, Reece Gaines) better than smaller points(Bell, Duhon, Felton, Ridnour) which can be supported by the evidence that John Salmons and Jeryl Sasser were first round picks and Jamal Crawford was a lottery pick. I'm not ruling out Bell for the first round, but I don't consider him a lock, yet.

Bosh's potential is amazing guys. I don't think their is a big man in the 2002 class with more potential (Stoudemire included). He is a legit 6'10"-6'11", unlike Fraser, and has amazing athleticism (unlike May, Shav, Shelden). Sure, he needs to add weight and No, I don't think he will every be huge. But Moiso failed in the NBA for far more reasons than just bulk, Give this kid a chance. In two years, I think he will be bigger than Wilcox.


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## cmd34 (Jul 17, 2002)

thegoods..respect for taking the time to do this. i love this stuff and i try to do this every year. i disagree with some of the rankings but i don't think any of us have the right to say another person is "wrong" on predicting the draft this far out. this stuff is pure speculation. last year at this time, nbadrat.net had the lakers getting caron butler with the 28th pick. he went 10th and many people felt that was a huge steal. so unless jerry west or marty blake are on this board i would hold off from calling someone wrong or stupid.

some things....funny comparison of luke walton to mark madsen. i'd take walton though because he at least has some form of offensive ability. also, i noticed no kapono??? i think his outside shooting will get him into the 1st round. i think he is a better pure shooter than piatkowski and casey jacobsen.

travis outlaw-darius miles and carmelo anthony-lucious harris comparisons. i saw someone disagree with these. i have not seen either one play yet but i have seen those exact comparisons on about 5 different sites.

goods..look for me at the ucla-michigan game. i'll be there watching kapono light up lavell blanchard.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*Kapono*

First of all it was Collison I compared to Madsen (except Collison is an offensive specialist instead of D), and Walton is most comperable (you many think I'm nuts) to a skinny Anthony Mason. Think about it, Walton is an undersized PF who likes to handle the ball, isn't a good defender, limited range, and a decent rebounder.....if he puts on 50 lbs he would be the white Mason.
And about Kapono, he is a FAR better shooter than Jacobson, but he is not as athletic or fast and he tends to struggle making his own shot. In the NBA depending on what team he's on, he should get decent screens and open shots. Part of why he isn't carrying UCLA to the Final 4 is because Gadzuric and Barnes can't set screens, we'll see this year with Cummings,Fey, and McKinney, who are all more fundamentally sound than DGad and Barnes. Kapono right now is a mid 2nd rounder, but if all goes as planned he could be a late 1st rounder plus he gets the senior bonus that better teams seem to give out:grinning: . On another note I've seen Kapono around the Wooden Center at UCLA (it's where the gym and stuff is) and he's looking about 10 lbs bulkier and in better shape than he's been in the last few years.
Oh, and about Caron Butler, I still think #10 was a waste on him, I would have taken Rush or Chris Jefferies over him in the 20's. Caron is pushing 23, he has only NCAA-3 range and just barely, he is not explosive or super athletic, he is a tough defender but commits a lot a fouls, and he is slow for a 2 or very short for a 3....Miami got a steal with their other Butler though, Rasual will be pretty good once he puts on some weight. 

And in response to Starbonis, Mickael not Florent is the Pietrus whom I think is a lottery caliber player. And about Lampe, I don't like his style but I see where he could be good, just like many peeps don't like Kwame Brown's style but he will be quite good. The only Euro-prospects that I'm sold on even with very little footage are:
Darko Milicic- he's for real, needs some more weight
Kosta Perovic- he reminds me of Ilgasgus(spelling?) but he has a wider frame, he's more athletic and he's an even better shot-blocker.
Sophocles Schortsianitis- needs to grow more to play center
Johan Petro- only been balling for 2 years and looks great
Tahrou Sani- reminds me of a more athletic Elton Brand
Carlos Delfino- more like Doug Christie than Manu Ginobili
Sani Becirovic- is his knee healthy????
Eduardo Sonseca-Hernandez- a little raw but lots of potential
Maciej Lampe- solid, not my type but skilled
guys I'm not sure about:
Zoran Planinic- similar to Welsch but much skinnier
Zaur Pachulia- I question is ambition to improve
Victor Khryapa- this year's Nachbar, or Sekularac?

and as for the Euro-PGs it's very hard to tell because most of them are scorers.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

The ridiculous thing about some of Goods' comparisons (other than the fact that they're dead wrong) is just how highly certain players are ranked, despite the lousy players they are compared to. Carmelo Anthony, supposedly the next Lucious Harris, is the #1 SF prospect in the class? Lucious Harris isn't even in the first round if the draft is done over again. Chris Bosh wouldn't be drafted if he was truly Jerome Moiso. Moiso is an NBA disaster, and anyone compared to him shouldn't be ranked on any list of top draft prospects.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*re: blabla97*

blabla97 : 
First of all Lucious Harris was once upon a time a big prospect who turned into a bust. Second of all Jerome Moiso was a NCAA star his frosh and soph years and has not succeeded in the NBA becuase he is skinny and has a narrow frame. Bosh is exactyl the same, maybe even skinnier, and Moiso has more range and is a better shot-blocker than Bosh. I still think Moiso will succeed in the NBA, but like Moiso Bosh won't be ready after 2 years. Bosh helps himself the most by going all 4 years and working on his body, his D, and his range. Jared Jefferies is this year's player like that. Jefferies left after two years, got draft late-lotto, is skinny and narrow (also not as athletic as Bosh and Moiso), and he too will need 3 years to adjust to the NBA....narrow and skinny guys have trouble gaining weight but Jefferies,Bosh, and Moiso all can be very good NBA PFs, but the weight room should be their first priority, and in the case of Bosh, also D and range. I still think Boston made the right pick taking Moiso and he will soon be a very good EC PF....although none of the 3 are WC PFs. 
And back to the Anthony/Harris comparison, both are slow, non-explosive but moderately athletic 6-6 &1/2 swingmen, they both are instant O but don't play good D, they both like to post up and overpower to the hoop, and both can hit an open 3 but don't have the range guarded.
And don't be insulting, because in this case you are the one who has his brain up his @$$....you should be more careful of what you say and whom you criticize, especially when you're blatantly wrong...In this forum you waive you're right to say someone is wrong without adequate proof. So please go to you local tolet, stick your head in it and flush :grinning: .


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

This is my ranking of the top incoming NBA talent for 2003 and 2004 drafts. And there are no players for overseas because I'm not going to pretend I know anything about them.

TOP
PG: 1)Duhon 2)Ridour 3)Felton 4)Telfair 5)Gaines 6)Ford 
7)Bozeman 8)A. Miles 9)Bell 10)A. Burks

SG: 1)James 2)Paulding 3)Haynes 4)Wade 5)Hodge

SF: 1)Anthony 2)White 3)Rickert 4)Muhammed 5)Williams 6)Rice

PF: 1)Collison 2)Okafor 3)Bosh 4)Fraser 5)Frye 6)S. Williams 
7)T. Bryant 8)A. Brown 9)J. Parker 10)C. Massie

C: 1)Perkins 2)Lang 3)Harrison 

And you see why there are so many forigen players drafted, look at our centers, we have 3 maybe 5 good ones. And sleeper players I think are Bell, Burks, Ford obviously, Muhammed, Jawad, Andre Brown, and Jason Parker.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*re: Ozzy*

I respect the fact that you are not pretending to know about foreign players, although some are not BS-ing and do know what they are talking about. About your rankings though, I do not at this moment consider Bell, Ford, Telfair, Muhammed, Lang, and Perkins pro prospects. Troy isn't as good as Charlie Bell who couldn't make it (and Troy is even smaller), TJ is a fraile child right now and he doesn't play D and can't hit a J outside 12'. Land and Perkins are definitely not ready although Perkins will declare and he will be a lotto pick, Lang is not even as good as Jerome James. Lang is pretty moble for a guy his size but he doesn't have great skills and he isn't a good defender. I still consider Chris Marcus the #1 US center right now, he's a bit of a stiff, but he's got great moves, he's a very good defender and rebounder, he's agile and he's more athletic than peeps seem to think. Muhammed, right now, is like a less polished Quentin Richardson (when he was at DePaul), Muhammed isn't a great prospect becuase he isn't the shooter,rebounder,or athlete Q is, but he is a better defender. If Q was the #19 pick in a weak draft Muhammed isn't in the 1st next year in a draft that is far stronger than 2000 although it's hard to tell right now how much stronger. And Telfair, at the moment, is no more an NBA prospect than Rafer Alston. I don't even have Telfair in my HS class of 04 top 5, I have Shaun Livingston #1, Randolph Morris #2, Al Jefferson #3, Brandon Rush #4 (I know it's a little high for him, but he has more potential than peeps think, JaRon's athleticism and Kareems skill), and Roy Hibbert at #5.
Also a few of the other guys you've ranked are not major prospects.


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## UNCStateGuy (Jul 17, 2002)

Great to have the thread back up, huh.

Anyway, let me first start out by saying a couple of things. Jerome Moiso did not succeed in the NBA because of more than just strength and bulk. Now, he certainly could have benefited from an additional 30 pounds of muscle without losing his athleticism but that didn't break his career. He's very ineffective in a half-court game, his post moves are below average and his outside shot and ball handling skills are very suspect. To say that Bosh won't succeed in the NBA because of just a lack of bulk is absurb as well. Espically when he still has several "growing" years ahead of him. 

I think comparsion are very overrated and I think Goods, you put to much effort into them. Anthony is more athletic than Lucious Harris and is more explosive. He isn't an elite athlete but he's pretty darn good. Hid dunks at the McDonald's All American Dunk Contest weren't memorable but they were certainly athletic. His play in the McDonald's game showed a super developed player that didn't only rely on athleticism as well. Pop the tape back in and you will some pretty athletic moves. It should also be pointed out that Anthony has plenty of time to work on his defense. He has all the tools to be a solid defender. 

Luke Walton will be an NBA SF. He already plays a combo forward position at Arizona (playing SF in situations with 6'9" Rick Anderson) and has absolutely no shot at the PF spot in the NBA. He's 6'8" 220 and isn't athletic. His perimeter skills and passing skills will be good enough to get him looks but the final score will be judged a lot of how he can handle the ball and how effective his jump shooting is. Comparing him to Mason really isn't very accurrate since it fails to tell a lot of things.

Isma'il Muhammad is also a very athletic player but calling him an NBA prospect right now is a stretch. Besides being athletic, he has no appeal to the NBA. His will be undersized at the SF spot in the pros and probably will have to make it as a SG. His jump shot, ball handling, passing and defense are all not on the level of an NBA prospect yet, either. He has a ton of athleticism and brings a boat load of energy on the court but I doubt he makes a serious impact on the draft until at least 2003. 

Jason Parker? He's what 26, now. Parker is yet another undersized PF without SF skills. What makes it worse is that David West, Mario Austin and Chris Massie are more skilled. 

Kendrick Perkins is also not a C!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

The Goods, how is Troy Bell similar to Charlie Bell? Bell was an undersized SG who would have been best playing inside. He weighs probably 220. Bell is a slight 180-190 player. Troy has a much better outside shot. Besides Charlie did sign with the Suns. Some of your comparsions amaze me.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Ok, according to you guys Sebastian, Ford, Bell, Perkins, and Muhammed are not good prospects and are not ready for the NBA right now. Well no ****! Damn, players like Perkins, Muhammed, and Sebastian are not good right now, yeah neither was Jermaine O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, Rashard Lewis etc, but they got drafted on potential and that is why Muhammed, Sebastian and Perkins will get drafted high. They might not be great players now, but I still think they are, but they will be later on. 

Yeah Ford is bad at defense but I consider him like a Allen Iverson type player, not scoring but with the dribble, you can't guard TJ on the dribble and he might be a weakness on de but he is a advantage mismatch on offense with his handle and play making ability. Bell is a solid play and obviously will not be a star, but he will be a solid backup. Perkins again, still has time to grow, and same with Lang, yeah they might not be freaking all star players right when they are drafted but look at how the game is going. You have to draft on potential these days and these are the guys to get.

And I put Jason Parker on there because he still is a talented player and why does he play like a SF again, he can't shoot or dribble and that is what SF's do. How about you re-frase that to SF's body not skills of a SF. And he is 6-8 260, big frame and could be a steal in the second round, and he will be picked because of the lack of big men around.

Also where did you get things on Muhammed, the comparison is good to Q-Tip, but that was the same one nbadraft.net had, I don't think that is just a coincidence!!!! Get you own comparisons. And Muhammed is a good enough athlete to get drafted high even if he can't shoot or dribble, two things he can learn to do, but you can't learn to be athletic.


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## starbonis (Aug 7, 2002)

To the Goods

And in response to Starbonis, Mickael not Florent is the Pietrus whom I think is a lottery caliber player. And about Lampe, I don't like his style but I see where he could be good, just like many peeps don't like Kwame Brown's style but he will be quite good. The only Euro-prospects that I'm sold on even with very little footage are:
Darko Milicic- he's for real, needs some more weight
Kosta Perovic- he reminds me of Ilgasgus(spelling?) but he has a wider frame, he's more athletic and he's an even better shot-blocker.
Sophocles Schortsianitis- needs to grow more to play center
Johan Petro- only been balling for 2 years and looks great
Tahrou Sani- reminds me of a more athletic Elton Brand
Carlos Delfino- more like Doug Christie than Manu Ginobili
Sani Becirovic- is his knee healthy????
Eduardo Sonseca-Hernandez- a little raw but lots of potential
Maciej Lampe- solid, not my type but skilled
guys I'm not sure about:
Zoran Planinic- similar to Welsch but much skinnier
Zaur Pachulia- I question is ambition to improve
Victor Khryapa- this year's Nachbar, or Sekularac?


All those young men are for sure real interesting players. Some are still huge prospects like Perovic, or really unproven versus higher competition level like Petro or Sani. 
Some are just listed, because they were great as Cadets or juniors, but now they have reach a point where their NBa future can be seriously questionned (Delfino, for example is in my opinion, not NBA-caliber). 
Sure teams can draft them and wait, just like Memphis with Giricek or Detoit with Rebraca, but it's still a gamble. For example I am not delighted by Rentzias in Philly: he wasn't big for Barcelona last year and there are doubts about his health. Sometimes teams should just trust Euro-veteran like for me former Tar Heel Ademola Okulaja. He can play in the NBA


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

LeBron James will top off somewhere around 6'9" or 6'10", so I think teams will definitly exploit this by starting him at the 3, although he still could play the 2. 

I think Reece Gaines belongs a little higher up, I really like his style of play. 

As for comparing David Harison to Reaf, I really don't see any simalarities. Reaf plays a smooth, fundamentally sound style of play, while David Harrison looks like an 8th grader playing texas basketball. Kind of like Shaq's free throws, ugly, but effective.


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

This thread is great, I'm really enjoying reading everyones opinions, and there seems to be a lot of good ones here. But its starting to get out of control with the name calling and such, and i really don't want to have to delete any of this stuff or close this thread, so lets try to keep it clean. Thanks, STING


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## UNCStateGuy (Jul 17, 2002)

A lot of you guys are projecting players to grow. I highly doubt James Lang, Kendrick Perkins, Lebron James or 90% of the other players in the class of 2002 will grow. It just doesn't happen that often. Sure, Mike Dunleavy, David Robinson and others have done it. But a lot of times people who grow in college are late-bloomers. Most of the top high school players don't grow after high school. The main reason for this is that they matured at a very young age therefore they became better basketball players younger. To predict that a player is going to grow is absurb and isn't rational. You can talk about how a player will add weight (Something that happens to a majority of college entrants - freshman 15) because of weight lifting and better diets. But unless teams are handing out growth pills, very few players will grow in college.

Muhammad is really green right now. He is less developed than a lot of wings in his class and he has less potential than a good many others. He could still turn into a top notch prospect but it's way to early to tell.

Perkins isn't a terrific athlete. A major knock on him is that he is closer to maxing out on his potential than most high school players. He is already more skilled than a lot of big men in years past (see Stoudemire, Chandler, Brown, etc.). Perkins doesn't have their elite athleticism or height. 

James Lang still isn't even a top 30 prospect on a lot of lists. The kid has really developed lately but their are better big men out their than him.

Jason Parker is only about 6'7.5" with shoes on. I used to live in the Charlotte area and have actually played pick-up games with him. I'm a legit 6'6" without shoes and he is about an inch taller than me. He's a very good player but his NBA potential is quite limited (see Haslem, Baxter, etc.)

Omar Cook and Marcus Taylor had plenty of potential as well. It takes more than potential to make it as a PG when you aren't blessed with size.


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## Songcycle (May 29, 2002)

UNCStateGuy, you are right about the unlikliness of people growing at this age. It can happen, but it is unusual and rarely happens. It should certainly not be expected. Many people stop growing shortly after puberty and many only grow minimally afterwards if at all. Do you people know or remember when you stopped growing?


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*re" Starbonis; Delfino, Sani/Petro:*

First of all I understand why you don't think Delfino can succeed, but even if he doesn't imrpove I see him being a Doug Christie type player. He's a great defender and very athletic, his shot is streaky but has nice form, and he has good size for a 2. He has NBA potential as a role playing star not a real star, that's why I don't say he's Manu with defense, Doug Christie is what he is and will be in my mind.
And about Sani and Petro:
Sani is like Elton Brand. He's emerged as dominent at an early age and has an over-developed post game. He actually has an edge on EB becuase of his sick athletic ability. His only knock is his size but I think he will prove himself just like EB did at all levels. Sani may have only shown his skills at the junior level, but a 100 point, 50 reb game is huge at any level. If he grows even 1'' and developes an outside game, he could be a top 5 pick, right now I'd say he should take the GED and ACT or SAT and showcase himself at a big NCAA program that is in need of a bigman. Even if he's only 16 he can still play NCAA ball, and that way he comes out as an 18 year old junior. UCLA,USC,Wake Forest, Florida, UConn, and Maryland are all good fits that like international players (UCLA-Gadzuric,Moiso UConn-Shaeffer,Brown,Green WF-Songaila UF-Drejer).

Petro has the most potential of all the under 18 international prosepcts, he's only raw (becuase he's only played for 2 years) and skinny. His skills and potential remind me of a smoother Tyson Chandler, but Petro has the perimeter skills and handles that Ty lacks. Petro needs the weight before he can prove himself at any level. He's skinny even for a 16 year old 7 footer. Even if he doesn't prove himself I think he's still worth a lotto-pick.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> First of all Lucious Harris was once upon a time a big prospect who turned into a bust.


Harris was a 2nd round pick, and he wouldn't be much higher than that if the draft were re-done today. Are you saying the #1 SF prospect of '03 is a borderline first rounder? 



> Second of all Jerome Moiso was a NCAA star his frosh and soph years and has not succeeded in the NBA becuase he is skinny and has a narrow frame. Bosh is exactyl the same, maybe even skinnier, and Moiso has more range and is a better shot-blocker than Bosh. I still think Moiso will succeed in the NBA, but like Moiso Bosh won't be ready after 2 years. Bosh helps himself the most by going all 4 years and working on his body, his D, and his range. Jared Jefferies is this year's player like that. Jefferies left after two years, got draft late-lotto, is skinny and narrow (also not as athletic as Bosh and Moiso), and he too will need 3 years to adjust to the NBA....narrow and skinny guys have trouble gaining weight but Jefferies,Bosh, and Moiso all can be very good NBA PFs, but the weight room should be their first priority, and in the case of Bosh, also D and range. I still think Boston made the right pick taking Moiso and he will soon be a very good EC PF....although none of the 3 are WC PFs.


If you're going to make an NBA comparison, at least pick a player that has actually reached his potential. This is an NBA draft thread. I don't think anyone cares where Bosh is right now, or where he'll be halfway through his development, when it comes to a comparison. I want to know the type of player that Bosh has the potential to be. If he's Jerome Mosio, he doesn't belong on any list of top PF's. Plain and simple. 



> And back to the Anthony/Harris comparison, both are slow, non-explosive but moderately athletic 6-6 &1/2 swingmen, they both are instant O but don't play good D, they both like to post up and overpower to the hoop, and both can hit an open 3 but don't have the range guarded.


Since when is Lucious Harris 6-6 1/2?? He's listed at 6-5, and we all know the truth about NBA height listings. I'd be surprised if he was a legit 6-4. Harris isn't an athelete, and definitely isn't explosive. He can shoot, that's about it. Go back and watch him in the playoffs this past season if you don't believe me. He never posted up, and never took it to the hole unless his defender was overplaying the shot. Anthony doesn't have the greatest first step, but he certainly is a high-flyer. I like his height, frame, leaping ability, and feel for the game. He's got the chance to be a big-time NBA player. 



> And don't be insulting, because in this case you are the one who has his brain up his @$$....you should be more careful of what you say and whom you criticize, especially when you're blatantly wrong...In this forum you waive you're right to say someone is wrong without adequate proof. So please go to you local tolet, stick your head in it and flush .



You have done nothing to back up anything you've said. Instead, you spout off more opinions. Just because you think something about a player, doesn't make it the unopposed universal truth. If you can't handle people disagreeing with your _opinions_, you have a long life ahead of you. 

As for me being insulting, I don't think I am at all. I'm disagreeing with what you are saying. You tell me to not be insulting by insulting me. I'll let that speak for itself.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Ok, UNCstate guy......

I respect your opinion and everything but I think you are DEAD wrong about players not growing. And in today's NBA scouts have to predict players future in the game to evaluate them. Yeah it doesn't seem possible but you can. Just look at the athletic ability of the player, rank that first if they are really young, then look at how they act to sertin things and how they react in the game. I a player has good athletic ability that is called a "base" for talent, a base to build on. The big boys in the NBA did it with Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O'Neal, and will soon be doing it with Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, and Lebron James (P.S. LeBron will never grow to 6-9 or 6-10, he is young but he is not like 13 or anything) NBA teams will take the risk because there is a base to work on, and every baller that has been good out of high school are ALL athletic! Everyone of them, so it is not that big of a risk drafting undeveloped ballers in my book. And if teams don't well they are in for a killing in the NBA, because they will get beat by the teams that are stacked with young talent and look ahead in the game. Yeah age is something but if they are talented they are talented, end of story.


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

I stopped growing at 20, and I grew 5 inches between 18 and then. There are almost no standards for how much you grow after puberty, its all different. But with most people, they tend to come into the "drifting" stage, where they grow at a steady rate until their stopping age, and Lebron James seems to have a few more years left in it.


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## starbonis (Aug 7, 2002)

About Tahirou Sani...

Sorry to answer late to a question about his REAL Dob. Well, what I am writing here is the truth, at least the truth delivered by his staff and some doctors.

So Sani came in France and blew everything, **** The Goods mentionned with 50 rebs-game, 80 and 78 pts-game, 17 blks-game. He played for Euro age-category "" Cadets"" for young men between 13 and 15. Because of his performances, his height his body development, there were strong questions about his real age, as like a lot of African people, their Identity papers are kinda of changing...
Some he was taken to an nearby-hospital and got a X-ray from his wrist. It's the surest way to credit someone's age. And the analysis of his wrist showed that he was born in 1985, but the method is only ( ???, some say he is one of the 2% guy, so the question about his age are standing there) 98% sure.

Sani now plays for BCM Gravelines "Espoirs" team (third with23-7 record) with guys born mostly in 1983 and 1982. His stats are nice 6.9rebs/10.8 pts (51.2%)/1.2 blks in 22min.

Sani is definitively a 1985 guy, meaning he can be drafted in 2007. For the moment he plans to stay in France, in gravelins, where the community has wellcomed him well, even before his basketball talents exploded.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

*CLEAR THIS UP!!!*

OK LET ME CLEAR THIS UP, I MENT PLAYERS DON'T STOP GROWING IN THERE BASKETBALL SKILLS, SORRY IF SOME OF YOU THOUGH THAT I WAS TALKING REALLY GROWING IN INCHES, I WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW PLAYER GROW OVER TIME IN THERE ABILITY IN THE GAME OF BASKETBALL. 

LIKE HOW KG, KOBE, JERMAINE, TRACY.....ALL GREW, THEY WERE NOT GREAT ALL STARS THERE ROOKIE YEARS BUT THEY GREW AND GOT BETTER AT THE GAME, THEY IMPROVED THERE DEFENSE, SHOOTING, HANDLE, ALL THAT STUFF. THAT IS WHAT I WAS SAYING, NOT GROWING IN HEIGHT, BUT GROWING IN THE GAME OF BASKETBALL FROM HIGH SCHOOL

And LeBron, Sebastian, Perkins, and Lang will all grow to be great basketball players, they will MATURE!!!!!!!!! in the NBA....

That is what I ment


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Mem-Fizz*



> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> Khryapa is very similar to Boki (Bostjan Nachbar). Boki didn't really have any real NBA chance until this year when he elevated his game and became a very solid NBA prospect. Khryapa is very similar to that and his game also resembles Boki, he will climb and Khryapa should find himself in the mid-first.


I have seen Victor Khryapa playing today with the Russian NT agaist the Spanish NT. The comparation with Nachbar is pretty accurate. Turkoglu could be another player that he resembles to.

He is an all around player, plays with great passion, has good athletism, is a great passer and a good rebounder, has good ballhanding, runs the floor very well, goes very easy to the basket and finds the way to score.

I agree that he could be in the mid-first round.


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