# vote vote week 12 top 25 rankings



## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

It is super bowl sunday, and it is sunday too, so it is time to vote for your top 25 rankings. Voting ends around 10:30pm CDT monday night


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

1 UCONN
2 Oklahoma
3 UNC
4 Duke
5 Xavier
6 Marquette
7 Purdue
8 Louisville
9 Clemson
10 Wake Forest
11 Pitt
11 Arizona State
12 UCLA
13 Villanova
14 Gonzaga
15 Butler
16 Michigan State
17 Texas
18 Syracuse
19 Memphis
20 Kansas
21 Illinos
22 Floridia
23 Cinncinati
25 Kentucky


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^KA Minnesota beat Illinois this weekend. They shouldn't be ranked over them, just saying!

1 UCONN
2 Oklahoma
3 UNC
4 Marquette
5 Duke
6 Louisville
7 Purdue
8 Xavier
9 Wake Forest
10 Pittsburgh
11 Villanova
12 UCLA
13 Michigan State
14 Gonzaga
15 Butler
16 Arizona State
17 Texas
18 Syracuse
19 Memphis
20 Minnesota
21 Clemson
22 Florida State
23 Cincinatti
24 Kentucky
25 Illinois


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

1.Connecticut
2.North Carolina
3.Oklahoma
4.Duke
5.Pittsburgh
6.Louisville
7.Marquette
8.Wake Forest
9.Xavier
10.Clemson
11.Purdue
12.Villanova
13.UCLA
14.Butler
15.Michigan State
16.Texas
17.Memphis
18.Minnesota
19.Syracuse
20.Gonzaga
21.Kansas
22.Illinois
23.Tennessee
24.Arizona State
25.Penn State


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

1. UConn
2. UNC
3. Duke
4. Pittsburgh
5. Oklahoma
6. Louisville
7. Wake Forest
8. Memphis
9. Marquette
10. Xavier
11. Purdue
12. UCLA
13. Clemson
14. Gonzaga
15. Michigan St.
16. Butler
17. Villanova
18. Texas
19. Arizona St.
20. Washington
21. Illinois
22. Kansas
23. Syracuse
24. West Virginia
25. Missouri


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

HB said:


> ^KA Minnesota beat Illinois this weekend. They shouldn't be ranked over them, just saying!


That line of thinking doesn't really make a lot of sense. I mean, Georgia Tech beat Wake Forest this weekend, but that doesn't mean you're going to put GT ahead of Wake.

Illinois is the better team, and if you want to look deeper into just who beat who, you can see Illinois has won @ Purdue while Minnesota lost at home to Purdue.

Then again, this is coming from someone who ranked, Florida St.? A team with little offense that's best win is over Florida? Interesting...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

But Minnesota beat Louisville which is a clearly better team than Purdue


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## RR 823 (Mar 29, 2003)

1 Connecticut
2 North Carolina
3 Oklahoma
4 Duke
5 Pittsburgh
6 Marquette
7 Wake Forest
8 Louisville
9 Gonzaga
10 Texas
11 Villanova
12 UCLA
13 Clemson
14 Syracuse
15 Michigan State
16 Butler
17 Xavier
18 Memphis
19 Purdue
20 Kansas
21 Washington
22 Minnesota
23 Illinois
24 Davidson
25 Arizona State


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## rpginferno (Aug 3, 2002)

Week 12 Top 25 Rankings

1. UCONN
2. Oklahoma
3. UNC
4. Duke
5. Pittsburgh
6. Wake Forest
7. Louisville
8. Marquette
9. Clemson
10. Xavier
11. Butler
12. Purdue
13. UCLA
14. Memphis
15. Michigan State
16. Villanova
17. Gonzaga
18. Texas
19. Minnesota
20. Washington
21. Syracuse
22. Arizona State
23. Kansas
24. Illinois
25. Utah State
eace:


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

coolpohle said:


> 1. UConn
> 2. UNC
> 3. Duke
> 4. Pittsburgh
> ...


just wondering why you have Memphis so high and have Missouri at 25 after losing to a bad K-state team


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

voting closed


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

HB said:


> But Minnesota beat Louisville which is a clearly better team than Purdue


'Clearly' better? I don't know about that.

On a neutral floor the line on that game wouldn't be more than 2 points either way.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Louisville is doing well in the Big East, 8-1 for that matter. Purdue just lost to an unranked Ohio State team. Clearly better is apt.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Exactly.. not sure why everyone is jumping on Purdue since they went on a 6 game streak after losing to Illinois & Penn State.. they are a good team but I think they are a lil over-hyped.. that said, its not like Ohio State is a brutal team this year (They have just as good a record as Purdue & Penn State)..I also believe Purdue could beat Louisville aswell so who knows what my purpose was of this post..


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

Minnesota beat Louisville on a neutral court.

Purdue won at Minnesota...

Purdue was a 1.5 dog to Oklahoma on a neutral court.

So is Louisville better than Oklahoma?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Okay lets go through this. Louisville is playing in arguably the best conference in college ball, with one of the best rosters in the nation. How many all americans are on that team as compared to Minnesota? What does it matter if they beat them on a neutral court? 

Did Purdue beat Oklahoma? Who cares if they were 1.5 dogs to them? They didnt get the job done.

And just going by rosters, Louisville is in fact more talented than Oklahoma.

Purdue lost to Illinois and Penn State nuff said. Those teams would get crushed by Louisville.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

HB said:


> What does it matter if they beat them on a neutral court?


What does it matter? HELLO, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

Dude, I'm not arguing that Purdue's better...I'm arguing that fact that you said Louisville was 'clearly' better than Purdue. That's not true at all.

Also HB and B34C, quit bringing up the Penn State loss...neither Hummel or Kramer played in that game.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

HB said:


> Okay lets go through this. Louisville is playing in arguably the best conference in college ball, with one of the best rosters in the nation. How many all americans are on that team as compared to Minnesota? What does it matter if they beat them on a neutral court?
> 
> Did Purdue beat Oklahoma? Who cares if they were 1.5 dogs to them? They didnt get the job done.
> 
> ...


As for the OU vs. Purdue game, OU needed a late rally to force overtime, and then they went on to beat Purdue because they shot like 20 more free throws. So yeah, I'd say Purdue is at the very least evenly matched with Oklahoma, a top 5 team.

Louisville is more talented than Oklahoma? LMAO


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

They aren't?

Lets see, Terrence Williams, Earl Clark, Samardo Samuels and Edgar Sosa will all play in the NBA

Blake Griffin and Willie Warren are the only legitimate NBA talent on OU's roster. 

Are you really going to try and tell me Louisville is not more talented than Oklahoma?

And yes the Cards are clearly better than Purdue, unless of course you think Purdue would be 8-1 in the Big East.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalum, CHN has Memphis at 11 so I don't think it's crazy for me to have them at #8. They're 18-3 and playing outstanding defense. I don't think it's farfetched to have them in the top 10.

Missouri lost to Kansas St. on the road. They weren't supposed to win that game. Lyons and Carroll are playing outstanding and they've got wins over Baylor, USC, Cal, etc.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Did I just read somebody say that Edgar Sosa will be in the NBA? lmao, that guy's decision making and terrible defense is a detriment to Louisville. There's no way he'll ever play at the next level.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The NBA still has the second round draft doesn't it?


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

No way he gets drafted. Absolutely none.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Worse players have gotten drafted. He'll be a four year player and will get every chance possible to pad his stats come senior year.

There are not that many players quicker than him and he is actually a good on the ball defender.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Apparently you're watching a different Sosa than the rest of us.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Probably! In the last five years, are you saying there's been no player worse than Sosa picked in the second round?


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Okay, let me put it this way, if any NBA team is stupid enough to draft him (which is highly unlikely in the first place) is going to end up asking themselves why they even bothered with that guy.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

That may be right, but the second round is a crap shoot. Teams take a gamble and if it doesnt work it costs them nothing.

Lost in all this, is the devastating news that Ginyard is out for the season. Big blow to UNC's championship aspirations.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

HB said:


> Lost in all this, is the devastating news that Ginyard is out for the season. Big blow to UNC's championship aspirations.


I was wondering what you thought about that. What happens now?


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

I don't see how UNC wins it all now. He was their best perimeter defender and they are just lacking too much defensively right now to win 6 games in March/April. I could see them maybe making another run to the Final Four but eventually you'll have a game where you don't play well offensively and you can't get stops.

Gonzaga is still looking like a great sleeper pick right now.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I dont know why you keep beating this dead horse about them being a poor defensive outfit. UNC plays good enough defense and thats fine with me. Yes Ginyard is a big blow, and right now we look like a Final four team. But thats why games are played. You never know who they will play. Is Duke's defense any better than ours? Wake's? Louisville? OU? Uconn is the only team that I can truly say is a defensive juggernaut. But basketball is not solely about defense, there's the offensive side of things. What team can stop UNC's offense at its best? The reason why scores at the end of the game are usually high for opponents is because of the breakneck speed at which UNC plays.

We've had this discussion numerous times and you keep chucking up UNC losses to defense. Get real man. Both their losses this year have been due to bad offense. Ellington was incognito in both games. We really need him more than we need Ginyard.

Let me list off a few stats for you

UNC is putting up 93.1ppg
Their opponents average 71.6ppg

Do the math


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

HB said:


> I dont know why you keep beating this dead horse about them being a poor defensive outfit. UNC plays good enough defense and thats fine with me. Yes Ginyard is a big blow, and right now we look like a Final four team. But thats why games are played. You never know who they will play. Is Duke's defense any better than ours? Wake's? Louisville? OU? Uconn is the only team that I can truly say is a defensive juggernaut. But basketball is not solely about defense, there's the offensive side of things. What team can stop UNC's offense at its best? The reason why scores at the end of the game are usually high for opponents is because of the breakneck speed at which UNC plays.
> 
> We've had this discussion numerous times and you keep chucking up UNC losses to defense. Get real man. Both their losses this year have been due to bad offense. Ellington was incognito in both games. We really need him more than we need Ginyard.
> 
> ...


LMAO dude. Right, the reason they lost to Wake is because they only scored 89 points. Obviously 89 points is the equivalent of offensive ineptitude.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

In that very game Lawson and Thompson scored in single digits. UNC's game is predicated on outscoring their opponents. 89 pts for teams like Wisconsin might be ground breaking, but its routine for UNC. When you have five or six NBA type players, you should put up NBA type points. Granted in that game Mcfarland and Teague went off, UNC could still have won that game if Lawson and Thompson put up their season averages. They lost by 3!!!!!!!!!

Here I'll help you. Tyler 22.4ppg, Lawson 15.5ppg, Ellington 14.8ppg, Green 13.8ppg, Thompson 11.6ppg

Thats five starters, I repeat five starters scoring in double digits.

Come on ppl! This isn't rocket science.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

To compare Duke's defense to UNC let alone the other teams you mentioned is sheer foolishness.


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## Full Effect (Dec 12, 2004)

1 UCONN
2 UNC
3 Duke
4 UOk
5 Marquette
6 Pitt
7 Louisville
8 Wake
9 Clemson
10 Xavier
11 Purdue
11 Villanova
12 Michigan State
13 Butler
14 Gonzaga
15 UCLA
16 ASU
17 Texas
18 Syracuse
19 Memphis
20 Kansas
21 Illinos
22 Washington
23 Cinncinati
25 Ole Miss


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

HB said:


> In that very game Lawson and Thompson scored in single digits. UNC's game is predicated on outscoring their opponents. 89 pts for teams like Wisconsin might be ground breaking, but its routine for UNC. When you have five or six NBA type players, you should put up NBA type points. Granted in that game Mcfarland and Teague went off, UNC could still have won that game if Lawson and Thompson put up their season averages. They lost by 3!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Here I'll help you. Tyler 22.4ppg, Lawson 15.5ppg, Ellington 14.8ppg, Green 13.8ppg, Thompson 11.6ppg
> 
> ...


Ground breaking only in Wisconsin's case?

Lol, any team that scores 89 points in a college basketball game is going to win 99% of the time.

UNC's defense sucks, face it.

Oh and thanks for the starters average PPG, that really helped a lot...


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

HB, you're really just making yourself look silly in this thread. 

UNC has the #1 ranked offense and the #21 ranked defense.

You say that UNC has played poor offensively in their losses, but that's not the case. They've given up 85 points in 75 possessions and 92 points in 89 possessions. That's bad defense. Offensively in those games, they've averaged at least one point per possession. That's good offense.

I think another thing to note is that they don't go nearly as deep as they did last year. After the starting five, you've got Davis playing well and that's it. Graves and Frasor have regressed this season and Drew isn't very good.

Their defense is what's going to let them down. It's not rocket science. :wink:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Again, they dont care about shutting down teams, because they want to outscore their opponents. When you play at the frenetic pace they do, you can't expect the opposition to be putting up 40 and 50 points.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

HB said:


> Again, they dont care about shutting down teams, because they want to outscore their opponents. When you play at the frenetic pace they do, you can't expect the opposition to be putting up 40 and 50 points.


That's why points per possession tells the story. And it doesn't tell a good one in terms of UNC's defense.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

A more reliable stat would be opponents FG%. I havent been able to find that.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

HB said:


> A more reliable stat would be opponents FG%. I havent been able to find that.


lol, no, not even close.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Why? Do you know something I don't? Again UNC is beating their opponents by a margin of 21 points. If their opponents have bad FG percentages doing that, its a testament to their defense.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

HB said:


> Why? Do you know something I don't? Again UNC is beating their opponents by a margin of 21 points. If their opponents have bad FG percentages doing that, its a testament to their defense.


It's become evident that I know a lot of things you don't. But you won't find better defensive stats than KPom's ratings. Look at UNC's last three games - 91 points in 82 poss. to Maryland, 76 points in 70 poss to NC State and 77 points in 77 poss to Florida St. And FSU and Maryland suck offensively!


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB if you don't see our defense as being a liability then I don't know what to tell you. If we run into a team with a Point Guard, or combo guard capable of taking the game over and we aren't on the very top of our offensive game we could lose. 71.6 PPG against is pretty bad IMO, maybe thats just me though.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> *It's become evident that I know a lot of things you don't. * But you won't find better defensive stats than KPom's ratings. Look at UNC's last three games - 91 points in 82 poss. to Maryland, 76 points in 70 poss to NC State and 77 points in 77 poss to Florida St. And FSU and Maryland suck offensively!


Lol really? Should I cue some of your questionable posts on here, heck there's one on the very first page of this thread.

Anywhoo this isn't some who can beat your chest the hardest type situation. I never said UNC is a defensive juggernaut, but they play good enough defense for what they are trying to do. Look man this is common sense, you can't put up 93.1ppg and also shut down teams. They don't go hand in hand. UConn can afford to do what they do, because they slow the game down. Roy wants to run, run, run. UNC are the second best rebounding team in the nation (yes rebounding also counts for defense). Without rebounding, there are no quick outlet passes, without quick outlet passes, UNC can't run. Without running, UNC cant win. Capisce?

They are fine giving other teams 71.6ppg PROVIDED they put up 93ppg


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

cool, i honestly can't believe you go on as long as you do with him


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Here's a couple more stats for your awesome UNC defense.

Effective FG% Defense - 41st in the country

Rebound % - 13th on offense, 122nd on defense

Your boy Roy can just keep those guys running all over the place, but it's not going to bring home a national championship. 

Man, I hope they get Gonzaga as a 4 seed in the bracket. They won't even make the Elite 8!

I'm willing to go out and say that I'm wrong when I am. When you make as many predictions as I do, you're going to be wrong pretty often. But it's kind of like the difference between a .320 hitter and a .280 hitter in baseball. The one only gets 40 more hits out of 1000 but will make the HOF while the other has an average at best career. I'm just looking to be at least marginally better.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

My goodness, reading comprehension is a problem on this board.

I have said it numerous times on here, I'll type in caps this time. UNC IS NOT A DEFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT, THEIR GAME IS NOT PREDICATED ON DEFENSE. YOU CAN'T SCORE 93PPG AND ALSO SHUT DOWN OPPONENTS.

So when you say 'my awesome UNC defense' dont you think you are exaggerating a teensy bit.

I dont care who they play, Gonzago, Uconn, it doesn't matter, when this team is hitting on all cylinders, no one can beat them.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

And you can't score 93 PPG, not be predicated on defense, and expect to win a national championship. It's just so eerily similar to last year. At some point you run into a team that can score *and* shut you down.

They can make a deep run into the final four with that strategy, but you can't win 6 games in March/April playing that way.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

But the other teams also have to gameplan for UNC. How do you successfully shut down all five of their players?

I know we will have our struggles in the tournament, but we wont go down easily either.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

Full Effect said:


> 1 UCONN
> 2 UNC
> 3 Duke
> 4 UOk
> ...



thank you for your vote, but unfort it will not count this week as voting is only Sunday am to Monday evening. I do look forward to your future top 25 votes


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

HB said:


> But the other teams also have to gameplan for UNC. How do you successfully shut down all five of their players?
> 
> I know we will have our struggles in the tournament, but we wont go down easily either.


Kansas did it last year. You're going to run into a team that's going to stop you. I'll take a team with a decent offense and a great defense over a team with a great offense and decent defense any day of the week.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

where can I get those glasses? I lost mine


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## Full Effect (Dec 12, 2004)

HB said:


> But the other teams also have to gameplan for UNC. How do you successfully shut down all five of their players?
> 
> I know we will have our struggles in the tournament, but we wont go down easily either.


Say Green goes cold and Tyler is smothered. Lawson is nurvious and they can't find solid looks at the hoop. These sort of things happen, not to say i don't think UNC will win it all but they aren't unbeatable not by the least. Especially come tournament time with no home court.


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