# Zach Randolph and the Grizzlies?



## TwinkieFoot

> One predominant trade rumor that's out there is a little bit anachronistic, failing to take into account the radical change of direction in the Knicks' front office. This one has Zach Randolph, who truly is on the table, going to Memphis for Darko Milicic and Marko Jaric. No, it's not that Serbs are simply unpopular in Memphis, it's that neither Darko nor Marko are likely to be huge impact players next season.
> 
> Milicic has yet to live up to the hype that comes along with being a number two overall pick. Part of that has to do with his not getting an opportunity to play early on, and part of it is he's always asked to play out of position. He's not a center, and has no idea what to do with the ball when he catches it with his back to the basket. I suppose the logic here is that Mike D'Antoni could use him like he used Amare Stoudemire - more of a catch-and-shoot type of offense. Sadly, Milicic will never be close to as good as Amare.
> 
> As for Jaric, he's a solid bench player who can drill the three, handle the ball some, and create offense. The problem is, put these two guys together and it's crazy to trade Zach Randolph for them. Randolph is 20 and 10 waiting to happen, and with the right leaders around him he could be an All-Star. It's easy to see why Memphis would do this, but the Knicks? This is no longer the all-Isiah team, with the end game seemingly just to acquire as many bad contracts and underachieving players as possible.
> 
> Don't line up for your Randolph jerseys just yet, Grizzlies fans.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9742


----------



## GNG

No thanks, we already have Antoine Walker to poison our young players.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

lol, I actually think Randolph is a poor fit for the Grizzlies as well. Talent wise, he is everything they need but he falls short in the maturity/character department. Randolph needs structure from veteran influences to make his contributions on the court worth wild, so I think it would be in the best interest for the Grizzlies to pass.


----------



## Zuca

Well Twinkie, like you said, talent wise he is a good fit for Memphis, but Grizzlies actually are not a good fit for him. I still think that Indiana would be a good place for him actually. Jim O'Brien can bring the best from him, more than D'Antoni, in my opinion.



Cinco de Mayo said:


> No thanks, we already have Antoine Walker to poison our young players.


And Walker won't poison our young players!


----------



## GNG

Zuca said:


> Well Twinkie, like you said, talent wise he is a good fit for Memphis, but Grizzlies actually are not a good fit for him. I still think that Indiana would be a good place for him actually. Jim O'Brien can bring the best from him, more than D'Antoni, in my opinion.


Sending Randolph back home to Indiana would be a horrible idea, and the fans would riot. People stopped going to Pacers games back when Stephen Jackson launched GunshotMania a couple years ago, and still stay away due to guys like Jamaal Tinsley and Marquis Daniels.

Bringing in Randolph of all people would be counterproductive to what the Pacers have been trying to accomplish the past several seasons.



> And Walker won't poison our young players!


The preeminent me-first veteran in the league right now who throws ****fits in the locker room during losing streaks and when he gets limited playing time isn't a bad idea on the worst team in the Western Conference where every major player is under the age of 25? O...kay.

Walker's only value is his expiring contract. Past that, he's a known sulker and of no use on the court.


----------



## HurraKane212

I think that Zach would be horrible pace wise for the Griz. I am close to making Memphis my second favorite team, especially since I lived in Tennessee for 6 years. Also, it will give me someone to root for in the lottery for a while since (hopefully) the Blazers won't be back for a while. With Conley, Mayo, and Gay, Memphis looks built to run. ZBo is the antithesis of a running game, he is a slow paced black hole who rebounds his own misses. Marc Gasol looks like a solid prospect who can rebound and make the outlet pass to a running wing. Ya'll just need an athletic utility PF who can block shots and provide good help defense, you know, the opposite of ZBo. More like Tyrus Thomas... Actually, that's not a bad idea...


----------



## Zuca

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Sending Randolph back home to Indiana would be a horrible idea, and the fans would riot. People stopped going to Pacers games back when Stephen Jackson launched GunshotMania a couple years ago, and still stay away due to guys like Jamaal Tinsley and Marquis Daniels.
> 
> Bringing in Randolph of all people would be counterproductive to what the Pacers have been trying to accomplish the past several seasons.


I honestly believe that although Indiana fans may not like SJax, Marquis and Tinsley bad acting, the biggest reason for Indiana fans not going to Conseco Fieldhouse have more to do with their losing seasons. And who knows, maybe Randolph is one of a few guys that can be acquired in a trade involving Tinsley with someone else (Murphy, perhaps)...




Cinco de Mayo said:


> The preeminent me-first veteran in the league right now who throws ****fits in the locker room during losing streaks and when he gets limited playing time isn't a bad idea on the worst team in the Western Conference where every major player is under the age of 25? O...kay.
> 
> Walker's only value is his expiring contract. Past that, he's a known sulker and of no use on the court.


All of his quotes that I saw were with him showing willingness to help his team. Maybe I didn't saw everything, but we just can't act like he is Jeff McInnis, that's all I'm saying. But it's obvious that Walker's biggest value is his expiring contract.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Cinco de Mayo said:


> No thanks, we already have Antoine Walker to poison our young players.


Well, certainly you could probably talk the Knicks into taking 'Toine rather than Jaric.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

HurraKane212 said:


> I think that Zach would be horrible pace wise for the Griz. I am close to making Memphis my second favorite team, especially since I lived in Tennessee for 6 years. Also, it will give me someone to root for in the lottery for a while since (hopefully) the Blazers won't be back for a while. With Conley, Mayo, and Gay, Memphis looks built to run. ZBo is the antithesis of a running game, he is a slow paced black hole who rebounds his own misses. Marc Gasol looks like a solid prospect who can rebound and make the outlet pass to a running wing. Ya'll just need an athletic utility PF who can block shots and provide good help defense, you know, the opposite of ZBo. More like Tyrus Thomas... Actually, that's not a bad idea...


All running teams have to get into a half-court set at some point in which a Zach Randolph is an excellent weapon. I also do not believe that he is nearly as slow as people believe him to be. The Grizzlies realistically could play him at the 5 spot on offense, in which he'd be faster than a majority of the league's centers. The Grizzlies have more than enough length on defense to make up for the height difference and athletic enough players to keep opponents on their toes.

P.S., Randolph does get a lot of offensive rebounds (about 3 a game) but he also gets more defensive rebounds than most guys in the league total in a game (8 per contest). Don't act like his rebounding ability is overrated because it truely is top tier in the league. And the Grizzlies already have a Tyrus Thomas on their team by the name of Hakim Warrick and had Stromile Swift (a carbon copy of what Thomas' career will be).


----------



## Shamrock32

Cinco de Mayo said:


> No thanks, we already have Antoine Walker to poison our young players.


Walker won't help on the court, but he wasn't a bad influence on the pups in Minnesota last season. Yes, he openly expressed his interest in going elsewhere, but he devoted his time to helping out some of the young guys and didn't get on any of his teammates' bad sides.

Toine throws fits during losing streaks... that's not a bad thing. He doesn't accept losing; that's a good thing. Toine has his flaws, but I don't believe that he is a cancer or a terrible influence on young players.

As for Zach Randolph, there is no need to bring in a high-priced hoodlum that will never help a winner. Memphis is better off splitting time between Warrick and Arthur, who I believe is a lottery talent.


----------



## HurraKane212

TwinkieFoot said:


> All running teams have to get into a half-court set at some point in which a Zach Randolph is an excellent weapon. I also do not believe that he is nearly as slow as people believe him to be. The Grizzlies realistically could play him at the 5 spot on offense, in which he'd be faster than a majority of the league's centers. The Grizzlies have more than enough length on defense to make up for the height difference and athletic enough players to keep opponents on their toes.
> 
> P.S., Randolph does get a lot of offensive rebounds (about 3 a game) but he also gets more defensive rebounds than most guys in the league total in a game (8 per contest). Don't act like his rebounding ability is overrated because it truely is top tier in the league. And the Grizzlies already have a Tyrus Thomas on their team by the name of Hakim Warrick and had Stromile Swift (a carbon copy of what Thomas' career will be).


Okay, maybe you don't understand why we nicknamed him "Stat-Bo" and most portland fans were glad to be rid of him for capspace. Zach Randolph cannot defend any position and is quite slow. ZBo stagnates an offense. Z-Bo's perfect role is as a backup garbage player who can salvage broken plays and score on putbacks n such, not as the focus of an offense. 

P.S. TT is a much better defender than Warrick or Swift. Also, I hope Darrel Aurther can be an athletic Antawn Jameson type PF for ya'll.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

HurraKane212 said:


> Okay, maybe you don't understand why we nicknamed him "Stat-Bo" and most portland fans were glad to be rid of him for capspace. Zach Randolph cannot defend any position and is quite slow. ZBo stagnates an offense. Z-Bo's perfect role is as a backup garbage player who can salvage broken plays and score on putbacks n such, not as the focus of an offense.
> 
> P.S. TT is a much better defender than Warrick or Swift. Also, I hope Darrel Aurther can be an athletic Antawn Jameson type PF for ya'll.


You know something else ZBo is? 25 years old and one of the best at his position already. He is rough around the edges and needs time on a contender to develop his maturity and on court awareness but that isn't much considering the fact he already is one of the best scorers and rebounders in the league. I doubt the Grizzlies could help nurture any of that in Zach, however, given how young their team is but I don't think his game is the real concern on this team like you insinuated. You mentioned he can't be the focus of an offense but does he need to be that with OJ Mayo and Rudy Gay already here?

P.S., TT is on an express trip out of the league the way he plays and his piss poor attitude. If Darrell Arthur was anything close to a Jamison or on the path to be an Antawn Jamison, he would have been right up there with OJ Mayo in the draft. He's not anything close to Jamison and nor does his game resemble Jamison. I do buy his potential, however, and peg him to be something of the second coming of David West...just more athletic.


----------



## rocketeer

TwinkieFoot said:


> You know something else ZBo is? 25 years old and one of the best at his position already.


really now? one of the best at his position?


----------



## rocketeer

TwinkieFoot said:


> I do buy his potential, however, and peg him to be something of the second coming of David West...just more athletic.


a more athletic version of david west is better than jamison.


----------



## HurraKane212

TwinkieFoot said:


> You know something else ZBo is? 25 years old and one of the best at his position already. He is rough around the edges and needs time on a contender to develop his maturity and on court awareness but that isn't much considering the fact he already is one of the best scorers and rebounders in the league. I doubt the Grizzlies could help nurture any of that in Zach, however, given how young their team is but I don't think his game is the real concern on this team like you insinuated. You mentioned he can't be the focus of an offense but does he need to be that with OJ Mayo and Rudy Gay already here?
> 
> P.S., TT is on an express trip out of the league the way he plays and his piss poor attitude. If Darrell Arthur was anything close to a Jamison or on the path to be an Antawn Jamison, he would have been right up there with OJ Mayo in the draft. He's not anything close to Jamison and nor does his game resemble Jamison. I do buy his potential, however, and peg him to be something of the second coming of David West...just more athletic.


1.) Zbo is not one of the best at his position. Defense is half the game and he offers none of it. You can get away with weak D as a small, but you gotta have some D to be a top tier big. Lamarcus Aldridge is already giving portland near Randolph's production with MUCH better defense, better passing, better ball movement, and without being the focus of the offense. 18/8 + defense & ball movemement > 23/10 with no defense and stagnant offense. I would not say that LMA is a top tier PF (yet), but I would say he is better than Zbo. I would also say that David West, Duncan, Dirk, Jameson, Boozer, Amare, Horford, KG, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Udonis Haslem, Elton Brand, Marcus Camby, Chris Bosh, Jermane O'Neal, Josh Smith, Emeka Okafor, Shawn Marion, and Rasheed Wallace are all more effective PF's that all offer more D and Hustle than ZBo.

2.) Go ahead and tell Zach Randolph that he isn't going to be the focus of the offense, see how that works... Dude has ego, dude thinks he's a MAX player.

3.) Zach would not be a good fit with a team built to run. You need a defender in the middle so that the smalls can gamble, you need athleticism for the secondary break, you don't need a ZBo Eddy Curry type.

4.) By Jameson like, I mean an athletic and slightly undersized PF who can guard SF sometimes and hit a jumper.

5.) Don't bother to use PER to say that ZBo is awesome, PER awards stat padders and chuckers and doesn't quantify defense well. Just pre-empting.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

HurraKane212 said:


> 1.) Zbo is not one of the best at his position. Defense is half the game and he offers none of it. You can get away with weak D as a small, but you gotta have some D to be a top tier big. Lamarcus Aldridge is already giving portland near Randolph's production with MUCH better defense, better passing, better ball movement, and without being the focus of the offense. 18/8 + defense & ball movemement > 23/10 with no defense and stagnant offense. I would not say that LMA is a top tier PF (yet), but I would say he is better than Zbo. I would also say that David West, Duncan, Dirk, Jameson, Boozer, Amare, Horford, KG, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Udonis Haslem, Elton Brand, Marcus Camby, Chris Bosh, Jermane O'Neal, Josh Smith, Emeka Okafor, Shawn Marion, and Rasheed Wallace are all more effective PF's that all offer more D and Hustle than ZBo.
> 
> 2.) Go ahead and tell Zach Randolph that he isn't going to be the focus of the offense, see how that works... Dude has ego, dude thinks he's a MAX player.
> 
> 3.) Zach would not be a good fit with a team built to run. You need a defender in the middle so that the smalls can gamble, you need athleticism for the secondary break, you don't need a ZBo Eddy Curry type.
> 
> 4.) By Jameson like, I mean an athletic and slightly undersized PF who can guard SF sometimes and hit a jumper.
> 
> 5.) Don't bother to use PER to say that ZBo is awesome, PER awards stat padders and chuckers and doesn't quantify defense well. Just pre-empting.


1.) If defense counted as half the game then Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash never would have won MVP's in this league. Don't give me the garbage about how they are "winners," because the whole concept is ridiculous. "Losers" become "winners" and "'winners'' losers'" far to often for this sort of theory to have any realistic support. Randolph is 25 years old and has not been in the league long enough to be deemed as either. He does have his flaws but what NBA player doesn't? As far as project's go, he's one of the best but can already put up 20 and 10. I also think that half your list of players better than Randolph is also inaccurate. Many of the guys you mentioned are currently or the decline or were just apart of very good teams ie Udonis Haslem who is mediocre at best.

2.) This year in New York, Randolph was not our main focus offensively and he survived. In fact, towards the ending of the season he looked to move the ball much more often. The realization that he can't get it done on his own for a team offensively will come in time with maturity (in the right environment).

3.) The Suns certainly did not have much defense down low and they did just fine running the ball. In fact, they have been the best team in the league the past couple of years running the ball. I think Randolph would be better suited at the 5 position defensively where there is less focus on individual defense and greater emphasis on team defense. His lateral quickness (or lack thereof) becomes somewhat mute since he has more time to react rather than in a one on one situation against players that are becoming more and more agile at the 4 spot.

4.) I was not going to use PER but who told you it does not take into account defense? A good chunk of defense is represented in defensive rebounds, steals, blocks, turnovers, etc. If you want to get technical, shooting percentage as well factors into good defense.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

rocketeer said:


> a more athletic version of david west is better than jamison.


I disagree but I guess that's a matter of opinion. I don't think David West is nearly as effective as he currently is if Chris Paul isn't on the team. Antawn Jamison has proven to be a much bigger star IMO and has more skills than West.


----------



## HurraKane212

TwinkieFoot said:


> 1.) If defense counted as half the game then Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash never would have won MVP's in this league. Don't give me the garbage about how they are "winners," because the whole concept is ridiculous. "Losers" become "winners" and "'winners'' losers'" far to often for this sort of theory to have any realistic support. Randolph is 25 years old and has not been in the league long enough to be deemed as either. He does have his flaws but what NBA player doesn't? As far as project's go, he's one of the best but can already put up 20 and 10. I also think that half your list of players better than Randolph is also inaccurate. Many of the guys you mentioned are currently or the decline or were just apart of very good teams ie Udonis Haslem who is mediocre at best.
> 
> 2.) This year in New York, Randolph was not our main focus offensively and he survived. In fact, towards the ending of the season he looked to move the ball much more often. The realization that he can't get it done on his own for a team offensively will come in time with maturity (in the right environment).
> 
> 3.) The Suns certainly did not have much defense down low and they did just fine running the ball. In fact, they have been the best team in the league the past couple of years running the ball. I think Randolph would be better suited at the 5 position defensively where there is less focus on individual defense and greater emphasis on team defense. His lateral quickness (or lack thereof) becomes somewhat mute since he has more time to react rather than in a one on one situation against players that are becoming more and more agile at the 4 spot.
> 
> 4.) I was not going to use PER but who told you it does not take into account defense? A good chunk of defense is represented in defensive rebounds, steals, blocks, turnovers, etc. If you want to get technical, shooting percentage as well factors into good defense.


Oh, you're a Knicks fan? Oh, well, nevermind. ZBo is great, one of the best PF's ever! You should hang on to him! :lol:


----------



## HurraKane212

http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-...ant-zach-randolph-your-team-contract-all.html

you should also consider this thread on the matter.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

HurraKane212 said:


> Oh, you're a Knicks fan? Oh, well, nevermind. ZBo is great, one of the best PF's ever! You should hang on to him! :lol:


LOL, me being a Knick fan has nothing to do with anything. I did not like him as a fit with us when he was first brought in and think worse of it now. That doesn't mean that him being a poor fit should take away from his value as a player. Randolph returns a team like the Pistons to being favorites for a title and not just a contender because his main problem is maturity and experience more than anything else-both of which he'd have nurtured on a veteran, no nonsense team.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

HurraKane212 said:


> http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-...ant-zach-randolph-your-team-contract-all.html
> 
> you should also consider this thread on the matter.


LOL, and I could care less for an "expert" opinion of someone whose critique is limited to: "he sucks big giant monkey balls." Generally, that's not the kind of person that actually watches games with a critical eye and ironically represents much of the backbone of the argument against Zach.


----------



## djtoneblaze

Cinco de Mayo said:


> No thanks, we already have Antoine Walker to poison our young players.


When again was it that Walker "poisoned" a team?


----------



## HurraKane212

djtoneblaze said:


> When again was it that Walker "poisoned" a team?


He was in charge of Kool aide production at jonestown...

Launching 3's like it's going outta style could cause some resentment, but to do that, he'd have to make it onto the court, which I don't foresee.


----------

