# T-Mac rumors from Insider



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Phoenix: McGrady for Marion, Jacobsen, rights to Vujanic, and #7 pick. (Orlando would want JJ, but PHX doesn't want to let him go)

Indiana: TMac for Al Harrington and either Artest or Bender

Clippers: TMac for Maggette, #2 overall pick, Jaric, and Ely (this would give the Magic the #1 and #2 overall picks)

Grizzlies: TMac for Gasol, Posey, Battier, and Watson

Rockets: TMac for Francis and Nachbar

Miami: TMac for Butler and Jones/Grant

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=1823641&CMP=ILC-INHEAD

What do you think? I like the Memphis and L.A. Clippers deals a lot. I'd be fine with the Phoenix and Indiana deals, wouldn't like the Rockets deal very much, and would boycott the Magic if they did the Miami deal.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

1. Clippers deal
2. Phoenix deal

Gotta go with one of those two if they are trading him.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Possible Starting lineups:

*Phoenix Deal:*
Lue/Gaines/Vujanic
#7(Iguodala, Childress, Jackson)/Bogans/Jacobsen
Marion/Hill/Garrity
Howard/Gooden
Okafor/DeClercq/2nd Rounder

We could then trade Gooden for a point guard like Snow, until Vujanic is ready. 

*Indiana Deal:*
Lue/Gaines
Stevenson?/Bogans/2nd Rounder
Artest/Hill/Garrity
Harrington/Howard/Gooden
Okafor/DeClercq/2nd Rounder

We'd have to trade at least one of Gooden or Howard for a guard.


*Clippers Deal:*
Jaric/Lue/Gaines
Maggette/Bogans
Hill/Garrity
J. Howard/D.Howard/Gooden
Okafor/Ely/DeClercq

We could instead draft Livingston, and start Jaric until he's ready...

Jaric/Lue/Livingston/Gaines
Maggette/Bogans
Hill/Garrity
J. Howard/Gooden
Okafor/Ely/DeClercq

*Memphis Deal:*
Watson/Lue/Gaines
Posey/Bogans/2nd Rounder
Battier/Hill/Garrity
Gasol/Howard/Gooden
Okafor/DeClercq/2nd Rounder

*Houston Deal:*
Lue/Gaines
Francis/Bogans/2nd Rounder
Hill/Garrity/Nachbar
Howard/Gooden
Okafor/DeClercq/2nd rounder

*Miami Deal: *
Lue/Gaines
Jones/Bogans/2nd Rounder
Butler/Hill/Garrity
Howard/Gooden
Okafor/DeClercq/2nd rounder


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

clippers trade is bad for Magic.

2002 or 2003 draft is good, but not 2004.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Orlando needs to get it's hands on Barbosa and Joe Johnson, not Marion and Vujanic.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

The Memphis deal is the best, but I like the trade with Miami too. 

The lineup from the Grizzlies deal looks good for the Magic. Howard could get traded for Olowakandi and then Orlando could use the MLE on Carlos Arroyo or another point guard.

PG - Watson / Arroyo
SG - Posey / Stevenson / Bogans
SF - Battier / Hill / Garrity
PF - Gasol / Gooden
C - Okafor / Kandi


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b><< SkipToMyLou >></b>!
> but I like the trade with Miami too.


Because you're a Miami fan, right? You don't actually think it's a good trade for the Magic, do you? For starters, a deal for T-Mac would have to include Wade, there's no way around it.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

Trading TMac for Caron, Eddie and #19 isn't that bad. Especially if the Magic can't agree on another trade and McGrady wants to leave. Jones has led the Heat in scoring for four straight years and Butler is going to be good player in this league. With the #19 pick Orlando could get Telfair at PG or Ramos at C. 

There are rumors that the Magic could get a better deal, but they might not be true. Why wouldn't the trade with Miami make the Magic a playoff team?



Magic
PG - Arroyo(MLE) / Telfair(#19)
SG - Jones / Stevenson / Bogans
SF - Butler / Hill / Garrity
PF - Howard / Gooden
C - Okafor(#1) / DeClerq


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b><< SkipToMyLou >></b>!
> Trading TMac for Caron, Eddie and #19 isn't that bad. Especially if the Magic can't agree on another trade and McGrady wants to leave. Jones has led the Heat in scoring for four straight years and Butler is going to be good player in this league. With the #19 pick Orlando could get Telfair at PG or Ramos at C.
> 
> There are rumors that the Magic could get a better deal, but they might not be true. Why wouldn't the trade with Miami make the Magic a playoff team?
> ...


JRich, NVE, #11 for TMac. If I was Chris Mullin and if the Heat's deal is the best the Magic could get, I will phone them immediately.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

I think the Magic could get a better deal, but why would Insider put the Miami deal with the others? There's no point in that.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Um, Grizzlies fan here. And while I doubt the Grizzlies trade would happen, I think it'll be the best scenario for the Magic. You're basically trading t-mac for the 6th seed roster out west. Gasol, Posey, Battier, and Watson is enough to make any team in the east a playoff team. Not to mention Okafor stays... that's possibly a contender in 2-3 years.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

I would very pleased with either the Memphis or Phoenix trade( although if we could get Barbosa instead of Vujanic, that would be beautiful). Both give us back an immediate All-Star caliber player in Gasol and Marion while Memphis's deal gives us more veteran and ready players to fill the roster (Battier/Posey), while Suns have pieces that work towards the future(#7/Vujanic). 

After that, I would be complacent with the Clippers deal as it does give us the #1 and #2 picks in the draft, but it would land us in a major rebuilding process. Maggette's is a fine player, but I doubt he will ever be able to be the feature player of a playoff team. 

As for the rest of the deals, I would rather just take the cap space.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b><< SkipToMyLou >></b>!
> Trading TMac for Caron, Eddie and #19 isn't that bad. Especially if the Magic can't agree on another trade and McGrady wants to leave. Jones has led the Heat in scoring for four straight years and Butler is going to be good player in this league. With the #19 pick Orlando could get Telfair at PG or Ramos at C.
> 
> There are rumors that the Magic could get a better deal, but they might not be true. Why wouldn't the trade with Miami make the Magic a playoff team?
> ...


I'm sorry, but the Miami deal is horrible. Caron Butler is a guy that couldn't score double figures in 30 minutes a night, while shooting well under 40% from the floor. Yes, I know he was injured at the beginning of the season, but he was pretty bad last season, when he finally had some legitimate scoring options around him. He scored 15 a game as a rookie, but no one else on the team could score, especially when Jones was out. Getting Eddie Jones in the deal is a huge negative, and I'd definitely rather have cap space. He's an OK player, maybe an average starting shooting guard at this point who's paid like a superstar, with multiple years left on his contract. No way we trade for Eddie. The rest your deal includes the #19 pick, which is OK, but nothing special once again. Really, it's a horrible trade for the Magic. As much as you want someone to take on Eddie Jones or Brian Grant's contract, it's not going to happen in all likelihood, and were certainly not going to take it on and give you a Top 5 player. Thanks, but no thanks.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

I'll take the Pacer deal in which we get Bender, Artest, Harrington and Johnson for McGrady and a re-signed Stevenson/Hunter. 

We draft Okafor #1. Sign Jackson to the MLE. Draft Duhon and Jin with the 2nd round picks. Trade Gaines and Lue for Armstrong. Trade Howard and Declercq for Cato. 

2004-2005 lineup:

PGs Hill, Johnson, Duhon
SGs Artest, Bogans, Armstrong
SFs Jackson, Garrity, ?
PFs Harrington, Gooden, ZaZa
Cs Okafor, Cato, Jin


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## SAKings (Mar 8, 2004)

I love the Clippers deal ONLY if tmac wanted out that badly and we got the clipz deal.

I'd try to find some way to include juwan howard and tyron lue in it to get rid of those guys..

#1 pick=okafor playing center
#2 pick=dwight howard playing PF (KG+Benwallace who can score)
Grant Hill if healthy = run the team nicely
Bogans good swingman
Gooden=Not bad
Stevenson=SG who isn't that bad
MLE/VLE
Magette= YEAHHHH!!!!
Jaric=PG

All we would have to do is sign a center


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

If we got the 1-2 picks, I'd almost like to see Okafor and Gordon taken. Gordon has supposedly been so good in workouts that the Bulls have even thought about taking him even though they already have a PG.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> If we got the 1-2 picks, I'd almost like to see Okafor and Gordon taken. Gordon has supposedly been so good in workouts that the Bulls have even thought about taking him even though they already have a PG.


I'd rather see Livingston taken 2nd than Gordon. I just see something in Livingston that looks special, of course I coudl be very wrong though. His agility (speed) was faster than Gordon's, his height is more of an advantage, and I believe he is a better playmaker.
What makes you think Gordon would be a smarter pick than Livingston? Maybe I'm really missing something, because I didn't see Gordon play too much outside of the Tourney this year.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

Livingston could be another point guard like Penny Hardaway. They are both 6'7 and can handle the ball.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lachlanwood32</b>!
> 
> I'd rather see Livingston taken 2nd than Gordon. I just see something in Livingston that looks special, of course I coudl be very wrong though. His agility (speed) was faster than Gordon's, his height is more of an advantage, and I believe he is a better playmaker.
> What makes you think Gordon would be a smarter pick than Livingston? Maybe I'm really missing something, because I didn't see Gordon play too much outside of the Tourney this year.


Well, i'm not sold on Livingston, but I have only seen him play in the McD game so I dont have much to base it off of. I also dont want to take someone who is barely going to play for probably two years. I want to get someone I can watch next season.

Gordon and Emeka were very successful last season for UConn and I think it would be great to bring that combo in here next season. I think both guys could start and contribute from day one and for a team that was lacking in chemistry there would instant chemistry there between them.

I think Gordon could have a Dwayne Wade type rookie year. And even though Livingston has a ton of potential, there's no guarantee he'll ever reach it. And even if Livingston becomes the better overall player eventually, it also doesnt mean he'd be better for the team. It all depends.

But whoever we draft, I want to see them play ... and I seriously doubt Livingston will get any more than Darko like minutes next year. If he does, he'll get abused. He's got a long way to go.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ballscientist</b>!
> clippers trade is bad for Magic.
> 
> 2002 or 2003 draft is good, but not 2004.


Uhh...wrong.

At worst, this is a 3-4 player draft. If the Magic have the first 2 picks, it doesn't matter whether the rest of the draft is weak. If they got the 2nd pick and didn't trade Gooden or Juwan, they'd almost have to take Livingston. I don't think they'd want Okafor, Gooden, J. Howard and D. Howard all on the same team.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Well, i'm not sold on Livingston, but I have only seen him play in the McD game so I dont have much to base it off of. I also dont want to take someone who is barely going to play for probably two years. I want to get someone I can watch next season.
> 
> I think Gordon could have a Dwayne Wade type rookie year. And even though Livingston has a ton of potential, there's no guarantee he'll ever reach it. And even if Livingston becomes the better overall player eventually, it also doesnt mean he'd be better for the team. It all depends.
> ...


I agree with instant help, but lets face it - Orlando is not going to contend in the next 2-3 years with the current roster so why not start drafting for the future? Nobody goes from #1 pick to a contender the next season anymore, and it'll be no different this year. I believe that both Gordon and Livingston would be great picks with a 2nd pick, but I'd rather take the chance at Livingston. Gordon is definitely the "safer" pick, and he's already far beyond Livingston in ability to play right now but this team as it is won't get anywhere. If the 2nd pick was acquired with others for McGrady then I'd like to see us pick Livingston just because of his potential. If we go with Okafor, at least we'll probably have 1 sure thing from the draft. Either way though, I wouldn't be dissapointed as I believe both are incredible players.
Really, I'd like to see us trade McGrady for Harrington, Bender and Artest (yes, all 3 if possible) then package Harrington and something off to Chicago (who has shown interest in Harrington) for the #3 pick. Okafor (or Howard) could play PF, Bender could play SF, Artest at SG and depending who is left at #3 we'd either fill the point guard position (Gordon, Livingston) or draft Howard.
I like that idea, but I'm in a bit of a positive mood at the moment. Possibly why my deals seem somewhat lobsided to the Magic!:yes:


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## Volcom (Mar 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Clippers: TMac for Maggette, #2 overall pick, Jaric, and Ely (this would give the Magic the #1 and #2 overall picks)


I would absolutely love for the Magic to do this deal.. As you can probably tell Maggette is my fave player and I would love to see him playing with Grant Hill (My fave player, back when he actually played)..

Taking Howard with Okafor could give the Magic the best frontline in the league in a couple of years... Jaric is also a decent player to have and is a definite upgrade over Lue...


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lachlanwood32</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with instant help, but lets face it - Orlando is not going to contend in the next 2-3 years with the current roster so why not start drafting for the future? Nobody goes from #1 pick to a contender the next season anymore, and it'll be no different this year. I believe that both Gordon and Livingston would be great picks with a 2nd pick, but I'd rather take the chance at Livingston. Gordon is definitely the "safer" pick, and he's already far beyond Livingston in ability to play right now but this team as it is won't get anywhere. If the 2nd pick was acquired with others for McGrady then I'd like to see us pick Livingston just because of his potential. If we go with Okafor, at least we'll probably have 1 sure thing from the draft. Either way though, I wouldn't be dissapointed as I believe both are incredible players.
> ...


I see where you are coming from, but I dont agree.  

I think Orlando could be right back in the thick of the playoffs in the East next year if they take Okafor and Gordon, pickup Maggette, maybe sign Stephen Jackson, and start Gooden at PF along with Okafor.

But part of it is just selfish to my own basketball viewing pleasure, since it isn't a whole lot of fun watching to see how well a guy can sit on the bench.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> I see where you are coming from, but I dont agree.
> ...


I see where you're coming from too JNice, but I want more than being competitive...I want the Magic to win our first title. Draft Livingston and Okafor, make some other moves...can you say Orlando Magic, Champions of 2008? !
Nobody wants to be apart of rebuilding, but honestly I don't think we'd be as bad as last year no matter what direction we take!


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