# Post-Iverson Iguodala Stat-Tracker



## Ras

I just thought this would be interesting to keep track of. Anyways, after three games....

*19.7 ppg/6 rpg/5 apg/2 spg/4.7 topg/53.9 FG%/00.0 3P%/85 FT%*

I'll try and just repost after every game, but feel free to beat me to it if you like.



Iguodala's stats with Iverson this year (didn't include the games where Iverson was out before the 'trade' as well)...

*13.3 ppg/5.8 rpg/4 apg/2 spg/2.9 topg*


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## Coatesvillain

Now we'll get to see what he can do with the ball in his hands on a full time basis. His offensive game isn't as smooth as one would like, but he shows glimpses of nice things like this turn around jumper on the baseline last night.

You can tell he's a confident player, just not as assertive as he could be.


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## DieSlow69

Nice Thread RAS.......

This will be a very interesting thread to watch. I HOPE HE COMES OUT OF HIS SHELL NOW, BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO MORE EXCUSES


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## Sliccat

Anyone know what his stats were with AI?


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## Ras

Sliccat said:


> Anyone know what his stats were with AI?


*ahem*

Look up.



Also, while doing this, I noticed Iguodala's assist numbers without Iverson, 5, 5, 7 and 10.


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## Tha Freak

Sliccat said:


> Anyone know what his stats were with AI?


Check out his gamelog: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3826/gamelog;_ylt=AjwWmLeUETMTU3sVdbKoaGykvLYF


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## Cage_Epidemic

ill say it now Iguodola most improved player of the year...this is going to be his team now...and im expecting him to shine (and this is coming from a Nets fan)


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## jpk

Cage_Epidemic said:


> ill say it now Iguodola most improved player of the year...this is going to be his team now...and im expecting him to shine (and this is coming from a Nets fan)


I think that's a bit over-optimistic. Sort of like the deluded Bulls fans that thought Pippen could carry the team after Jordan. And Iggy is no Pippen.


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## Sliccat

Wait, are you looking it up, or telling me to?


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## Ras

Sliccat said:


> Wait, are you looking it up, or telling me to?


I put it in my first post.


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## Ras

Updated original post for tonights game.


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## Kunlun

Iguodala's stats are looking good with no Iverson so far. It's not a big enough of a sample size though, we'll have to wait another few months to make real judgment on this.


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## Dre

This reminds me of Joe Johnson's coming out when Marbury got traded from Phoenix.


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## Steez

Webber is averaging 16.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 7 apg and 1.3 spg in the post-Iverson era.


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## Sliccat

Well, without your biggest scorer, others' production will naturally go up. What would be more interesting is, are the rest of the sixers' combined scoring increases greater than Iverson's 30 ppg?


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## SirCharles34

Sliccat said:


> Well, without your biggest scorer, others' production will naturally go up. What would be more interesting is, are the rest of the sixers' combined scoring increases greater than Iverson's 30 ppg?


What's more important for me outside of the team/individual stats is they are still losing, so no one can say it's all Iverson's fault the team is so bad.


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## DieSlow69

Steez said:


> Webber is averaging 16.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 7 apg and 1.3 spg in the post-Iverson era.





Sliccat said:


> Well, without your biggest scorer, others' production will naturally go up. What would be more interesting is, are the rest of the sixers' combined scoring increases greater than Iverson's 30 ppg?



Same thing I was going to say Slicatt. Webbers bum azz should have been averaging those stats anyway. It shouldn't have taken A.I's departure for him to score 16 and get 9 rebs. I can't wait untill that bum leaves.

However, I am interested in AI2's scoring and just his overall improvement with AI gone because we can finally see if his potential will blow up or is he already all he's going to be.


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## Amareca

LOL

I have been telling you and other Sixers fans since Iggy's rookie season that Iverson is holding him back and that he would explode, ofc I got laughed at at that point.


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## Coatesvillain

Iguodala's turnovers are way too high right about now, I like him handling full court but in the half court his handle is a problem.

I think his performance is good, he's still an efficient player, but he's not ever going to be dominant unless he makes a Joe Johnson like transformation, I don't think that's going to happen because he's not as talented. We'll see though.


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## RedsDrunk

Amareca said:


> LOL
> 
> I have been telling you and other Sixers fans since Iggy's rookie season that Iverson is holding him back and that he would explode, ofc I got laughed at at that point.




Yeah because your the only one who realized Iggy had talent and was suffering because of a stunted role in the offense. You sir must have a mind like a magnifying glass to make such astute observations.. .


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## Sliccat

> What's more important for me outside of the team/individual stats is they are still losing, so no one can say it's all Iverson's fault the team is so bad.


I don't think anybody was ssaying the team would be immediately better if you take out Iverson without adding anyone else.


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## RedsDrunk

Sliccat said:


> I don't think anybody was ssaying the team would be immediately better if you take out Iverson without adding anyone else.



Because they aren't. Wait maybe I'm missing something here?


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## Coatesvillain

Umm... 8 shots?

What the hell, I would cop pleas for him but 8 shots? In a game where you lose by 20?

I didn't see this one so I might be taking this out of context, but I guess it's proof of what others have been saying about Iguodala.


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## Ras

Coatesvillain said:


> Umm... 8 shots?
> 
> What the hell, I would cop pleas for him but 8 shots? In a game where you lose by 20?
> 
> I didn't see this one so I might be taking this out of context, but I guess it's proof of what others have been saying about Iguodala.


Yeah 8 shots is bull****. Why did C-Webb get 17? He hit 4. This was Green's first game in the starting line-up too, right?

Anyone that's seen the game, did he just defer to everyone?


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## LA68

The value of Iverson is him taking that big shot to win the game. "Iggy" has yet to win any game !! 

What good are stats without victories ?? If the Sixers could ever stay close enough for a game winning situation, see what Andre does then...then you will see the difference.


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## Coatesvillain

LA68 said:


> The value of Iverson is him taking that big shot to win the game. "Iggy" has yet to win any game !!
> 
> What good are stats without victories ?? If the Sixers could ever stay close enough for a game winning situation, see what Andre does then...then you will see the difference.


What's funny is this argument you're making against Iguodala, could be flipped and used on Iverson the past few seasons.


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## croco

Iggy tying his career-high with 27 points in maybe the toughest place to do it.


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## melo4life

i think its a perfect time for AI to go to denver with jr smith and melo out AI can take over denver while they're gone and when they get back, AI can work around their plays


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## croco

And yet another career-high, he is really starting to show now what he is able to do.


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## Sliccat

More than anything, I'm really impressed with his shooting percentage. Anybody can score if their the focus of the offense, but Iggy's making most of his shots, so its not like he's forcing it at all.


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## Sliccat

RedsDrunk said:


> Because they aren't. Wait maybe I'm missing something here?


Ah, I meant to quote sir charles. Fixed.


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## Coatesvillain

Updated numbers since the trade, everything's rounded to the nearest tenth..

42.5 MPG, 7-13.8 FGM-A, .4-1.6 3PM-A, 6.4-7.8 FTM-A

20.8 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 5.5 APG, 2.1 SPG, .5 BPG, 4.1 TOPG.

So like sliccat said he's shooting a high percentage, over 50% since the trade. He's getting to the line frequently, since AI's banishment he has had three games where he's gotten to the line at least 12 times.

He needs to get the turnovers under control, I think that should go down if they have get someone else to relieve him of his ballhandling.

With all this talk about not getting high draft picks in the trade, maybe just maybe if the Sixers are lucky enough to land Oden.. Iguodala can be that second guy. If he continues on this pace now, would you really need someone else to be a star on the wing?

Also before people talk about the spacing, I thought the Heat would have the same problem with Dwyane Wade and Shaq. Not saying Iguodala is as good as Wade, I'm just talking about the fact both are poor three point shooters, who rarely spot up.


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## SirCharles34

So if this keeps up, AND we start winning, I'm sure ppl will start being critical of Iverson yet again. 

But my take would be that it wasn't AI who was restricting the team's players and their growth but more his "superstar" status on the court. We have so many young players who stand around to see what Iverson's going to do next.. do you agree or not?

This topic will most certainly be brought up again in the months to come, I'm sure of that.


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## Sliccat

SirCharles34 said:


> So if this keeps up, AND we start winning, I'm sure ppl will start being critical of Iverson yet again.
> 
> But my take would be that it wasn't AI who was restricting the team's players and their growth but more his "superstar" status on the court. We have so many young players who stand around to see what Iverson's going to do next.. do you agree or not?
> 
> This topic will most certainly be brought up again in the months to come, I'm sure of that.


They'll only be critical of him if he's losing with the Nuggets


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## Coatesvillain

SirCharles34 said:


> So if this keeps up, AND we start winning, I'm sure ppl will start being critical of Iverson yet again.
> 
> But my take would be that it wasn't AI who was restricting the team's players and their growth but more his "superstar" status on the court. We have so many young players who stand around to see what Iverson's going to do next.. do you agree or not?
> 
> This topic will most certainly be brought up again in the months to come, I'm sure of that.


Well I don't think it's fair to be critical of Iverson if Iguodala keeps it up and the team starts winning. I think Iguodala's lack of progress while Iverson was here probably had more to do with Iguodala taking himself out of the offense than it did with Iverson dominating the ball (though that was a part of it).

Iverson was put in a situation where he wanted to win, and while the team would've performed better if he reigned it in and put more trust in his teammates.. confidence in teammates is often borne from teammates success. You know? So he kept playing his way because he felt he had to.


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## Coatesvillain

Well he's done for the night..
Here are his numbers:
20 points (6-11 FGM-A, 3-4 3PM-A, 5-6 FTM-A), 5 assists, 2 rebounds, 2 steals, 4 TOs in 37 minutes.

Here are updated averages:
41.9 MPG, 6.9-13.4 FGM-A, .7-1.9 3PM-A, 6.2-7.6 FTM-A.

20.7 PPG, 5.4 APG, 5 RPG, 2.1 SPG, .4 BPG, 4.1 TOPG.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug

webber and miller are back/in now

expect to see the pts and assists decrease


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## Coatesvillain

www.starbury.com said:


> webber and miller are back/in now
> 
> expect to see the pts and assists decrease


"Not so fast my friend" (c) Lee Corso

The Sixers averaged 92 points in the games after Iverson was sent away and before Andre Miller came in. Andre Iguodala averaged 20.8 of those points. With Webber performing better, and the addition of Andre Miller that doesn't mean Iguodala's load will decrease just that the team will score more.

In tonight's game he was still handling the ball a good amount even when he was on the court with Andre Miller. So I'll disagree and say his numbers will stay steady.


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## Coatesvillain

Vs Golden State:
14 pts (3-8 FGM-A, 1-2 3PM-A, 7-8 FTM-A), 3 rebs, 2 ast, 4 stls, 1 blk, 1 to in 28 min.

20 PPG (6.5-12.9 FGM-A, .7-1.9 3PM-A, 6.3-7.6 FTM-A), 4.8 RPG, 5.1 APG, 2.3 SPG, .5 BPG, 3.8 TOPG in 40.5 MPG.


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## Coatesvillain

Update:
19.5 PPG (6.4-12.3 FGM-A, .6-1.7 3PM-A, 6.2-7.5 FTM-A), 4.6 RPG, 4.9 APG, 2.1 SPG, .5 BPG, 3.5 TOPG in 40.2 MPG.


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## RedsDrunk

I never realized he plays so many minutes. Good to see him finally stepping up and playing some ball.


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## cpawfan

Poor Iggy, it is really going to suck for him watching Dre take more shots than him.


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## Ruff Draft

Is he catching any alley-oops from Dre?


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## LamarButler

Iguodala new career high: 32

I knew he would shine after AI left.


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## Coatesvillain

21.1 PPG (6.9-13.6 FGM-A, .6-2 3PM-A, 6.6-8.1 FTM-A), 4.8 RPG, 5.1 APG, 2.5 SPG, .5 BPG, 3.6 TOPG in 40.9 MPG.


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## Sliccat

cpawfan said:


> Poor Iggy, it is really going to suck for him watching Dre take more shots than him.


:Achieves career high in points:

Your breath smells like feet.


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## Sixerfanforlife

Iguodala has been very consistant in every area thus far, coatesy. I'm gonna watch the Lakers game (since we'll actually be playing a good team) and see for myself.


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## Coatesvillain

Since I haven't done one in awhile, here's a new update. I'll probably do it weekly, since that makes more sense anyway.

19.8 PPG (6.4-13.5 FGM-FGA, .5-1.9 3PM-3PA, 6.5-7.9 FTM-FTA), 5.3 RPG, 5.7 APG, 2.3 SPG, .3 BPG, 3.3 TOPG in 40.7 MPG.

So he's shooting 47% from the field, getting around 1.5 points per shot, shooting 26% from three, and 82% from the free throw line.


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## DieSlow69

Coates can you throw an update up. Iggy is still showing me that he's not aggressive enough. If this is suppose to be his team he needs to consistenly get more shots than he's getting. Against Charlotte he only got 9 shots and went 2-9......and against the Raptors he shot 12 times and went 6-12.... I know Green takes alot of shots and ballhogs at times(He had a good game though against the Bucks going for 30 on 13 of 19 shooting), but Iggy has to demand the ball if he is taking over the team. I just haven't been impressed the last 2 games watching him. 

I watched these games closely since I was back at my house. I really wasn't watching to many games before that because of working out of town so this is really based of the last two games. What do you guys think that have been watching our games without A.I more consistently?


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## Coatesvillain

When I watch it just solidifies the fact that the Sixers are going to need a go-to guy, because it's obvious that won't be Iguodala. I was under the belief before that he could turn into a go-to guy but he doesn't have that mentality. It's hard to get mad at Willie Green for taking shots (which is what I would've done the past few years) when there are still shots available for Iggy to take.

Also I hope in the offseason he gets someone and works extremely hard on his jumpshot, because it needs help. When it goes in, I just get this feeling that God is doing him a favor.

Here are the up to date averages..

19 PPG (5.9-13.3 FGM-FGA, .5-2 3PM-3PA, 6.6-7.9 FTM-FTA), 5.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 2.2 SPG, .3 BPG, 3.3 TOPG in 39.7 MPG.


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## DieSlow69

Coatesvillain said:


> When I watch it just solidifies the fact that the Sixers are going to need a go-to guy, because it's obvious that won't be Iguodala. I was under the belief before that he could turn into a go-to guy but he doesn't have that mentality. It's hard to get mad at Willie Green for taking shots (which is what I would've done the past few years) when there are still shots available for Iggy to take.
> 
> Also I hope in the offseason he gets someone and works extremely hard on his jumpshot, because it needs help. When it goes in, I just get this feeling that God is doing him a favor.
> 
> Here are the up to date averages..
> 
> 19 PPG (5.9-13.3 FGM-FGA, .5-2 3PM-3PA, 6.6-7.9 FTM-FTA), 5.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 2.2 SPG, .3 BPG, 3.3 TOPG in 39.7 MPG.



Dude put up 4(2 of 4)shots against the team with the worst record in the NBA.........TERRIBLE. at least we lost though(Cant wait until the damn draft)...I don't care if this is to early.. Iggy is not a go to guy and It wasn't A.I's fault this guy is just not aggressive....He Is not built like that!!!!!....Man I cant wait till next year because its getting hard to watch these guys. Miller Dunked on the whole team like he was LB James or D Wade man....geeeezzzz


*P.S. WHERE ARE ALL THE SUPER SIXER FANS WHO SAID THEY LOVE THIS TEAM AND TOOK A CRAP ON EVERYONE FOR LEAVING BUT LOOKS LIKE THEY LEFT TOO!!!!!!....GET BACK IN HERE AND POST. DON'T LEARCH AROUND......LET'S TALK*


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## croco

Taking only four shots is inexcusable, I hope he doesn't fall back into his old routine. Cheeks should just tell him he gets fined if he doesn't take at least 12 shots per game.


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## SirCharles34

Wasn't he in foul trouble? 
which limited him to just 20 minutes? Talk to me when he takes 4 shots playing 35/40 mins.


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## Kunlun

I remember I made a thread comparing Iguodala to Doug Christie a while ago, but most people disagreed. What do people think now?


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## Coatesvillain

DieSlow69 said:


> Dude put up 4(2 of 4)shots against the team with the worst record in the NBA.........TERRIBLE. at least we lost though(Cant wait until the damn draft)...I don't care if this is to early.. Iggy is not a go to guy and It wasn't A.I's fault this guy is just not aggressive....He Is not built like that!!!!!....Man I cant wait till next year because its getting hard to watch these guys. Miller Dunked on the whole team like he was LB James or D Wade man....geeeezzzz


I'll take the L on this one, I was buying his hype a few years back, loving the potential. I was questioning dude's potential in the summer.. so now I'm going to have to use the phrase I use for Dalembert to describe Iguodala.. "He is what he is."



> *P.S. WHERE ARE ALL THE SUPER SIXER FANS WHO SAID THEY LOVE THIS TEAM AND TOOK A CRAP ON EVERYONE FOR LEAVING BUT LOOKS LIKE THEY LEFT TOO!!!!!!....GET BACK IN HERE AND POST. DON'T LEARCH AROUND......LET'S TALK*


:lol: 

You should make a thread cause you're right, now with the Eagles' season over I should be watching a lot more basketball (college and pro). So I should be back with a vengeance.


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## Ras

The fact that he hasn't broken 16 points more than twice since the new year began (9 games) is worrying. I think you're all right when you say Iggy isn't going to be a go-to-guy. How sad. Hopefully we land Oden, and if not, Durant. Durant would give the Sixers a pretty solid go-to-guy.


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## Coatesvillain

Ras said:


> The fact that he hasn't broken 16 points more than twice since the new year began (9 games) is worrying. I think you're all right when you say Iggy isn't going to be a go-to-guy. How sad. Hopefully we land Oden, and if not, Durant. Durant would give the Sixers a pretty solid go-to-guy.


What's really worrying is his shooting percentage is also dropping.

I think a problem right now, is that this guy still hasn't figured out how to play in the half court. If he wants an extension he's really going to have to step it up the second half of the season. Now we're not expecting him to be a #1 scorer, he has to show something.

I need to apologize to the likes of Richard Jefferson and Joe Johnson for comparing them to Iguodala. If he continues on this pace Kunlun was right when he compared him to Doug Christie.


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## Coatesvillain

Here's another update..

19.3 PPG (6-13.3 FGM-A, .4-2 3PM-A, 6.7-8 FTM-A), 5.1 RPG, 5.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, .3 BPG, 3.6 TOPG in 39.9 MPG.


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## BEEZ

So whats the thought that hes been basically a 20 5 5 player since Iverson left


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## Sliccat

BEEZ said:


> So whats the thought that hes been basically a 20 5 5 player since Iverson left


You mean the thought that since thirty ppg have been replaced with 15 ppg, other players are scoring more?


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug

Sliccat said:


> You mean the thought that since thirty ppg have been replaced with 15 ppg, other players are scoring more?


that i agree with 

first off igoudala is now 1st option on offense when he was no 3 during iverson and webbers time here,2nd of all he`s playing with a totally different set of teammates.

his role on the team is completly different so of course his stats are different,20-5-5 is a good standard no doubt but i dont see how for what was obtained in the trade that the team has made any significant progress.A trade is supposed to improve your team,i`d rather still have iverson personally.


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## croco

Like someone said in another thread, he needs to work hard on his jumpshot during offseason and he will have plenty of time to do so. He also needs to figure out when to pass, when to drive to the hoop and when to shoot, the turnorvers have been way too high in the last 10 games.

But otherwise you don't score 20 or more points five times in a row by default which means that he is getting more and more comfortable with his new role. That's certainly a good sign for the future, also because he has increased his FG % in that span. 

Once he learns to shoot of the dribble and gets a better rotation on his jumper, he should crack in All-Star territory.


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## Ras

www.starbury.com said:


> that i agree with
> 
> first off igoudala is now 1st option on offense when he was no 3 during iverson and webbers time here,2nd of all he`s playing with a totally different set of teammates.
> 
> his role on the team is completly different so of course his stats are different,20-5-5 is a good standard no doubt but i dont see how for what was obtained in the trade that the team has made any significant progress.A trade is supposed to improve your team,i`d rather still have iverson personally.


Since when is a trade like the Iverson one supposed to make your team better immediately? That's not what the rebuilding process is about. Having Iverson still would be a bad move.


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## Sliccat

www.starbury.com said:


> that i agree with
> 
> first off igoudala is now 1st option on offense when he was no 3 during iverson and webbers time here,2nd of all he`s playing with a totally different set of teammates.
> 
> his role on the team is completly different so of course his stats are different,20-5-5 is a good standard no doubt but i dont see how for what was obtained in the trade that the team has made any significant progress.A trade is supposed to improve your team,i`d rather still have iverson personally.


No, they made the right move with Iverson; he pretty much forced it.


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## DieSlow69

www.starbury.com said:


> that i agree with
> 
> first off igoudala is now 1st option on offense when he was no 3 during iverson and webbers time here,2nd of all he`s playing with a totally different set of teammates.
> 
> his role on the team is completly different so of course his stats are different,20-5-5 is a good standard no doubt but i dont see how for what was obtained in the trade that the team has made any significant progress.A trade is supposed to improve your team,i`d rather still have iverson personally.


Dude I love A.I. to death but it was time for him to go. As much as I hated to see him go....It was time.


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## Kunlun

Has Iguodala's three point shooting regressed since last season? He never seems to make any anymore.


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## BEEZ

I dont think he takes as many but his eFG% is up


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## croco

His second triple-double of the season despite the loss and a career-high 13 assists. Can we say this is for real now ?


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## croco

Almost another triple-double, but this time a career-high 15 assists :cheers: 

btw: This board needs some life, Sixers have been playing a lot better as of late, there are things to talk about.


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## Ras

croco said:


> Almost another triple-double, but this time a career-high 15 assists :cheers:
> 
> btw: This board needs some life, Sixers have been playing a lot better as of late, there are things to talk about.


I was actually hoping the Sixers would lose more then they are; I don't like the 11-15 record. Getting a top pick would really help the future.

Iggy shut me up though. Ever since I pointed out that he hadn't gotten a 20 point night since the new year, he's put up 20+ in 8 of the last 9, and the only one he didn't he put up 19.


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## croco

Ras said:


> I was actually hoping the Sixers would lose more then they are; I don't like the 11-15 record. Getting a top pick would really help the future.
> 
> Iggy shut me up though. Ever since I pointed out that he hadn't gotten a 20 point night since the new year, he's put up 20+ in 8 of the last 9, and the only one he didn't he put up 19.


Then keep saying it ... :biggrin:


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## croco

23.9 PPG / 6.3 RPG / 7.3 APG / 1.5 SPG / 0.6 BPG on 46.4 % shooting over the last 10 games. 

That's not too bad I'd say. :cheers:


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## Coatesvillain

UPDATE!

19.9 PPG (6.3-14 FGM-A, .4-2 3PM-A, 6.7-8.1 FTM-A), 5.4 RPG, 5.9 APG, 2 SPG, .3 BPG, 3.4 TOPG in 40.5 MPG.


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## SirCharles34

Coatesvillain said:


> UPDATE!
> 
> 19.9 PPG (6.3-14 FGM-A, .4-2 3PM-A, 6.7-8.1 FTM-A), 5.4 RPG, 5.9 APG, 2 SPG, .3 BPG, 3.4 TOPG in 40.5 MPG.


just curious, his turnovers look high. I wonder where his league rank is? AI use to get a lot of flak for his to's.


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## Ras

SirCharles34 said:


> just curious, his turnovers look high. I wonder where his league rank is? AI use to get a lot of flak for his to's.


You know what's interesting; Steve Nash is 2nd in the league in turnovers per game.


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## Sliccat

All this is nice, but on a better team, I think his stats would take a significant drop. He's a really good third-best player, but I don't know if he's anything more than that on a good team.


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## SirCharles34

Ras said:


> You know what's interesting; Steve Nash is 2nd in the league in turnovers per game.


Wow! that's news to me. But I bet no one will ever tell steve nash he needs to limit his turnovers..


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## BEEZ

Sliccat said:


> All this is nice, but on a better team, I think his stats would take a significant drop. He's a really good third-best player, but I don't know if he's anything more than that on a good team.


I always said he wasnt a go to player, but a Strong 2nd option type.


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## Sliccat

I don't think he's really a second option either, more of a 14-17 ppg guy on a great team that focuses on his complete game.


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## Coatesvillain

Sliccat said:


> I don't think he's really a second option either, more of a 14-17 ppg guy on a great team that focuses on his complete game.


People said the same thing about Shawn Marion, and Shawn Marion has proven to be a legit #2 guy. I think it's the same situation with Iguodala.


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## BEEZ

Sliccat said:


> I don't think he's really a second option either, more of a 14-17 ppg guy on a great team that focuses on his complete game.


He shown an aggressiveness since AI has been gone that hadnt been there which no doubt has helped his confidence. You havent said or shown why he would be a 3rd option type guy?


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## Sliccat

BEEZ said:


> He shown an aggressiveness since AI has been gone that hadnt been there which no doubt has helped his confidence. You havent said or shown why he would be a 3rd option type guy?


Because he's too submissive of a player. He's shown aggressiveness because he's one of the few players on the team that's good offensively. That would tone down with some more prolific players. Plus, he can focus on other things, unlike alot of scorers.


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## BEEZ

Sliccat said:


> Because he's too submissive of a player. He's shown aggressiveness because he's one of the few players on the team that's good offensively. That would tone down with some more prolific players. Plus, he can focus on other things, unlike alot of scorers.


So hes only showing aggressiveness because hes good offensively? That doesnt make alot of sense to me, hes always been good offensively so why didnt he show that offensively before? He had shown hints of it while AI and Webber were here, he needed confidence which he has now and he knows he can get his shots while getting others involved. So please explain a little better, when you say he can focus on other things.


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## Sliccat

BEEZ said:


> So hes only showing aggressiveness because hes good offensively? That doesnt make alot of sense to me, hes always been good offensively so why didnt he show that offensively before? He had shown hints of it while AI and Webber were here, he needed confidence which he has now and he knows he can get his shots while getting others involved. So please explain a little better, when you say he can focus on other things.


Before I respond to this, I'm going to need you to read my post.


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## croco

Sliccat said:


> Because he's too submissive of a player. He's shown aggressiveness because he's one of the few players on the team that's good offensively. That would tone down with some more prolific players. Plus, he can focus on other things, unlike alot of scorers.


This league is about confidence, if you don't have any faith in your game, any player will look submissive on offense. Once he found his aggressiveness he started to gain confidence and that lead to many positive things. I think that nobody expects him to be a 30 PPG player for the future, but that doesn't mean he can't be a first option. 

But I agree that to be a legit first option, he needs to work on his jumpshot in the summer. If he does that I don't see any reason why he couldn't be the go-to-guy. He caught fire now that he sees he can change games, he is willing to learn and ready to work. 

I believe that the "old" Andre Iguodala is gone and he will stay in that aggressive mode not only until the end of this season.


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## BEEZ

Sliccat said:


> Before I respond to this, I'm going to need you to read my post.


I read it and my post stands. Nice post croco


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## Sliccat

> So hes only showing aggressiveness because hes good offensively? That doesnt make alot of sense to me, hes always been good offensively so why didnt he show that offensively before?


Of course it doesn't make sense, that's why I never said it. He's become more aggressive because the 1 and 2 offensive options left. Put them back in the line-up, and he's the third scorer again. Same goes with any combination of 2 big 20 ppg scorers. Iguadala has such a great all around game, that it would be natural for him to be the one to take a back seat; he has many other routes to go and still be just as effective. He could be a second scorer, but not on a championship caliber team. I don't see him being go to guy for any great team.

His confidence hasn't grown, so much as he's been forced into a position where he needs to score more. Take him out of that position, and he won't. It's pretty simple, really.



> I believe that the "old" Andre Iguodala is gone and he will stay in that aggressive mode not only until the end of this season.


He probably will be for a while so long as he stays with the sixers. But a first option scorer? I don't see it. The only way he's averaging 20 with a really good team is if they run a phoenix type offense.


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## Coatesvillain

His confidence has grown though, it's hard to argue against that. Sure his stats have gone up because he's forced to take on the bulk of the offense, but that doesn't account for how he's dealt with the added defensive attention.

I mean I don't like to stress it but look at his body language and how he carries himself, he's more comfortable on the court than he was in the past. I also believe the fact that the team is playing respectfully with him scoring is a positive sign, that means what he's doing means more than if he was scoring a ton and the team was losing.

I mean he's been more aggressive not only in finding his own offense (since his scoring has still be mostly within the flow of the game) but in getting others involved.

I believe if he was on a team and was the third option he'd be completely underutilized like he was while Iverson and Webber were here. He's not a number one option on a winning team, but I see no reason why he couldn't be a good #2. I mean heck for a few years there Manu Ginobili was the second scoring option on San Antonio, Josh Howard is the second scorer for Dallas.. are those two that much better than he is?


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## DieSlow69

Sliccat said:


> Of course it doesn't make sense, that's why I never said it. He's become more aggressive because the 1 and 2 offensive options left. Put them back in the line-up, and he's the third scorer again. Same goes with any combination of 2 big 20 ppg scorers. Iguadala has such a great all around game, that it would be natural for him to be the one to take a back seat; he has many other routes to go and still be just as effective. He could be a second scorer, but not on a championship caliber team. I don't see him being go to guy for any great team.
> 
> His confidence hasn't grown, so much as he's been forced into a position where he needs to score more. Take him out of that position, and he won't. It's pretty simple, really.
> 
> He probably will be for a while so long as he stays with the sixers. But a first option scorer? I don't see it. The only way he's averaging 20 with a really good team is if they run a phoenix type offense.


COSIGN.....The only reasone everyone is saying that IGGY has gained his confidence is because he was forced to gain it....NO ONE CAN DENY THAT!!!!!!!! When A.I and Webber was here I can pull up countless threads when everyone was saying IGGY NEED TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE. Saying that, I think if you put 2 more superstars on this team....I think Iggy would fall back also (as of right now).......and really I don't think he could be a number one option(right now)...I think he could be a valid 2nd and he definetly needs to work on his jumper....Until then guys hes a 3rd option (right now) all day on any team.....I think what Sliccat is saying and I agree, *IGGY is not cured all of a sudden of not being aggressive he's being forced and I'm glad he is*....Because only then will it continue to grow and by the time we add someone hopefully it will be second nature to him!!!!






I believe if he was on a team and was the third option he'd be completely underutilized like he was while Iverson and Webber were here. [B said:


> He's not a number one option on a winning team, but I see no reason why he couldn't be a good #2. I mean heck for a few years there Manu Ginobili was the second scoring option on San Antonio, Josh Howard is the second scorer for Dallas.. are those two that much better than he is?[/B]


COSIGN


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## Coatesvillain

You can't force a player to gain confidence. Just because points are taking out of a rotation doesn't mean someone will pick up for them.

Case in point with Robert Horry, there was a time people expected his scoring to jump up because there was a void and he was somewhat spotlighted. It didn't happen, he wasn't built that way.


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## BEEZ

Dieslow69 I dont think you realized how you totally contradicted yourself. You cant co-sign a comment then contradict it the very next. Please explain how a player can be forced to have confidence. You cant for a Human Being to have confidence. That is something that has to come from within. Yeah you could pull up threads about Iggy needing to play with more confidence, but what does that have to do with now???


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## Sliccat

BEEZ said:


> Dieslow69 I dont think you realized how you totally contradicted yourself. You cant co-sign a comment then contradict it the very next. Please explain how a player can be forced to have confidence. You cant for a Human Being to have confidence. That is something that has to come from within. Yeah you could pull up threads about Iggy needing to play with more confidence, but what does that have to do with now???


This post doesn't make any sense. First of all, we're not talking about now, we're talking about the future. And Iguadala has yet to do anything to prove to me that he's able to score a consistent 20 ppg with other superstars. I don't see him being that player. Rather, I think he's more the guy to score 20 one night, and then shut Tracy McGrady down the next, and then get 10 assists the next. He's so versitile that his ppg doesn't reflect how good his game was at all.

Second, of course a situation can force confidence in a person. If I'm in a college level math course, and don't think I can succeed, and then get bumped back to a 5th grade math course, I'll have more confidence in my ability to succeed in it. The same thing has happened to Iguadala. He doesn't have anybody to share the spotlight with.


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## croco

Sliccat said:


> And Iguadala has yet to do anything to prove to me that he's able to score a consistent 20 ppg with other superstars. I don't see him being that player. Rather, I think he's more the guy to score 20 one night, and then shut Tracy McGrady down the next, and then get 10 assists the next. He's so versitile that his ppg doesn't reflect how good his game was at all.


Because he was invisible at times on offense in his first two seasons ? Many (in fact most) players have grown over the years and didn't take this league by storm. Not everyone is going to be a Lebron James type player in the first two years. Look at Kobe's numbers in the third year, look at McGrady's numbers or at Gilbert Arenas. They didn't have great stats although they played huge minutes. I'm not comparing Andre to them, but he is in a growing process and that is far from being unnormal.


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## BEEZ

Sliccat said:


> This post doesn't make any sense. First of all, we're not talking about now, we're talking about the future. And Iguadala has yet to do anything to prove to me that he's able to score a consistent 20 ppg with other superstars. I don't see him being that player. Rather, I think he's more the guy to score 20 one night, and then shut Tracy McGrady down the next, and then get 10 assists the next. He's so versitile that his ppg doesn't reflect how good his game was at all.
> 
> Second, of course a situation can force confidence in a person. If I'm in a college level math course, and don't think I can succeed, and then get bumped back to a 5th grade math course, I'll have more confidence in my ability to succeed in it. The same thing has happened to Iguadala. He doesn't have anybody to share the spotlight with.


What, you have to talk about the present to justify the past and future. Its not that hard to understand. How he played in the past you see growth as to where he is now and how he could potentially be in the future. Where has anywhere on here anyone said he was this great scorer? No where. We said he was a strong 2nd option type player. His skill set would make him that type of player. This has never been about PPG and I think you have attempted to make it that. 

The situation causes the individual to act. Which is something the person would have to do within himself.


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## Sliccat

BEEZ said:


> What, you have to talk about the present to justify the past and future. Its not that hard to understand. How he played in the past you see growth as to where he is now and how he could potentially be in the future. Where has anywhere on here anyone said he was this great scorer? No where. We said he was a strong 2nd option type player. His skill set would make him that type of player. This has never been about PPG and I think you have attempted to make it that.
> 
> The situation causes the individual to act. Which is something the person would have to do within himself.


This isn't going anywhere. You're arguing things I never said.


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## Coatesvillain

Sliccat said:


> Second, of course a situation can force confidence in a person. If I'm in a college level math course, and don't think I can succeed, and then get bumped back to a 5th grade math course, I'll have more confidence in my ability to succeed in it. The same thing has happened to Iguadala. He doesn't have anybody to share the spotlight with.


This isn't a good analogy since it's not like Iguodala was bumped down to a high school. He's still in the NBA and while he has more opportunity he also has more pressure and more defensive attention focused on him.


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## DieSlow69

BEEZ said:


> Dieslow69 I dont think you realized how you totally contradicted yourself. You cant co-sign a comment then contradict it the very next.


I bolded the wrong sentence...I was meaning to bold the he could become a 2nd option on a good team as time passes(I was at work so I was rushing). 



BEEZ said:


> Please explain how a player can be forced to have confidence. You cant for a Human Being to have confidence. That is something that has to come from within. *Yeah you could pull up threads about Iggy needing to play with more confidence, but what does that have to do with now*???


It has a lot to do with now in my opinion as you just told Sliccat the past has a lot to do with the future and vice versa(are you contradicting yourself now????).....If you didnt have confidence just a couple of games ago....OK lol... 3 months ago(and his confidence has still been up and down except for about I'd say a month).....and all of a sudden...They take the number 1 option...then the number two option and send them packing...and your the only real option left then your are forced into that position in my opinion....He is playing with more confidence because hell no one else is there ....hell you have no reason to hold your head down if you do something dumb because who is going to say something to you!! Don't get me wrong I'm glad he was forced into it because it can only help his game....But if we had another number one option it would still be a million threads talking about Iggys potential and he needs more confidence!!!!!!!


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## Sliccat

I think its funny that when he wasn't doing good I was one of the only ones saying he'd be really good eventually, and now that he's proving me right, I'm one of the only pessimistic voices.

Point blank, Andre Iguadala will never be the first or second scoring option for a championship contending team. Quote me.


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## Sixerfanforlife

I'm back guys and let me say that we should just let Andre Iguodala become Andre Iguodala. I've preached it before and I'll preach it again, Andre has a nice jumper he can do alot of different things. So let him do those things and we'll come to that conclusion when the time comes. We don't have very much of a choice anyhow, because Maurice Cheeks is the head coach of this basketball team.


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## SirCharles34

Sixerfanforlife said:


> I'm back guys and let me say that we should just let Andre Iguodala become Andre Iguodala. I've preached it before and I'll preach it again, Andre has a nice jumper he can do alot of different things. So let him do those things and we'll come to that conclusion when the time comes. We don't have very much of a choice anyhow, because Maurice Cheeks is the head coach of this basketball team.


Welcome back! I was wondering what happened to you. Iggy is coming into his own and it's about time.


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## SirCharles34

Iggy hit 1 of 9 shots and we still blew out the knicks. What does that say about this team?


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## BEEZ

it sucks to win


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## Sliccat

SirCharles34 said:


> Iggy hit 1 of 9 shots and we still blew out the knicks. What does that say about this team?


The sixers suck at absolutely everything. Even losing.


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## croco

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6524876

Interesting article from Charley Rosen about his game, analyzing the strengths and weaknesses.


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## Coatesvillain

Yeah, after watching the game last night.. he's a star. I think he's done too much now to simply revert back to the way he was playing with Iverson and Webber, he's a player who knows what he can do in this league.


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## croco

His defense on Kobe in the second half was outstanding, he scored within the flow of the offense, he hit all three treys, just a terrific game from him.


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## Sliccat

Coatesvillain said:


> Yeah, after watching the game last night.. he's a star. I think he's done too much now to simply revert back to the way he was playing with Iverson and Webber, he's a player who knows what he can do in this league.


What's more important is that other coaches know too, so he won't be put in that role again.


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## Coatesvillain

Sliccat said:


> What's more important is that other coaches know too, so he won't be put in that role again.


This is a great point.


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