# Would you do a Garnett for Tinsley and JO?



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

The Pacers seem to miss Reggie Miller's quiet leadership.

As Austin Croshere said last week after a loss to the Hornets: "This team needs to step up and find some leadership. It's not coaching, it's effort and taking responsibility for what's happening on the court."

No names were mentioned, but insiders knew it was aimed at O'Neal, regarded as a bigger talker than worker. Without prompting, O'Neal answered the comments not specifically aimed at him.

"It's unfair for it to be said we need to step up and find leadership," O'Neal said. "I'm the one that's been calling guys in the summer, during the season, trying to keep guys motivated. We shouldn't be questioning the leadership. We should have been questioning why we got beat amongst each other."

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...0258nov21,1,6283445.column?coll=cs-columnists


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I would except, except Anthony Johnson has dissapointed me this season in terms of his ability to be a starter. I don't think Johson, Jasikeviscius, or Gill are starter-caliber, so I think the team my be hurt by that.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

I'd accept it. I would try to maybe give em bender and johnson with O'neal instead of Tinsley and they could throw in some fillers. I think Sarunas could be our starter but he hasn't played enough yet to make me so sure. So it would be nice to keep Tinsley just to be safe. I like Jermaine O'neal and think he's a good player, but the Pacers need leadership. You can't pass up a player like Kevin Garnett, exspecially if we could keep Ron Artest with him. Probably never gonna happen anyways.


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

dont think i would do it 


Jermain O'Neil seems to be better this year then last year.... I think he has a chance to be the MVP

Tinsley is a good PG too.... wouldnt do it


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

I would not...

1. We need Tinsley... I wouldn't like us with Sarunas and AJ alone.

2. The only thing Garnett is doing better than JO right now... is passing. And JO has improved that this year.

3. JO is younger and has put his entire heart and soul into our franchise.

4. Garnett's contract is HUGE!.. and he is not outplaying JO by much at all right now. Why lose Tinsley too. 

5. Let Garnett go back with Marbury in NY.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Croshere is the last person that needs to be talking about anything. Hes the same guy that took his game to another level(IN a bad way) after he signed his contract.
Regarding JO and Garnett. 2 different types of players and JO while one of my favs is not better than KG. Also Garnett's contract is not HUGE. ITs the same as JO's basically


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> Croshere is the last person that needs to be talking about anything. Hes the same guy that took his game to another level(IN a bad way) after he signed his contract.
> Regarding JO and Garnett. 2 different types of players and JO while one of my favs is not better than KG. Also Garnett's contract is not HUGE. ITs the same as JO's basically


If they are so close... why does Tinsley have to be thrown in to make it work? I believe JO makes around 3-4 million less per year. Is KG not the highest paid player in the NBA anymore? And again... JO has more growing potential... and is not far behind KG statistically right now.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Really a players worth and value goes beyond stats. And No KG is not the highest paid player in the NBA. Im not sure if this season his new contract comes into effect but he took a pay cut. JO is as about as good as he is going to get. I dont think hes going to have a significant amount of a jump to be considered as such. He doesnt have the lateral quickness to do what KG does all over the floor. Hes much better on the block than KG is and that really is about it


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## back2newbelf (May 26, 2005)

i'm a pacers fan but people who think JO and garnett are almost equal are way off. can you say durability? do you know how many games garnett's missed the last 5 years? and O'Neal? there's so much:
FG%(10%+)
rebounds(this would really help the pacers)[garnett's not better in rebounds so far, but this will change for sure]
steals(50%+)
assists(2x)

keep in mind that garnett never played on a really good team like the pacers...his FG% would probably go up (although his playing time would go down, and everything else with it)

still, i wouldn't do the trade...simply because throwing in tinsley is too much...i'd say JO + AJ + Bender...or something along that lines


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## The Man (Aug 20, 2005)

Hell no I would not do that. I like JO a lot and would have a hard time giving him up for KG and throwing in Tinsley is the real deal breaker. I hope Indiana isn't stupid enough to give up Tinsley. Jasikevicius is not ready and is not the future of the Pacers.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Cant say I'd do it. I'd love to have Garnett, but its not like hes any better a leader than JO. Our locker room is divided it seems. Whoever is close friends with JO think things are fine, the rest, mostly scrub players (sorry AC) doent seem very happy.
Any interview I've read though showns JO knows hes the leader, and hes been trying.

Anyways, If I could do a JO, Bender + picks trade, I'd be all over it. Or replace Bender with someone else we dont need. But we do need Tinsley IMO. If KG was here I think Tinsley could be a better passing Terrel Brandon.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

This is a very interesting trade proposal. I'd rather include a combination of AJ, Bender, Gill, Croshere, or Harrison instead of Tinsley, though. Even though he's one of the best, if not the best, player(s) in the league, Garnett's value seems to be pretty low. The Wolves would probably be interested in a defensive PG and a Center who could become a good player in a few players, along with a younger, worse passing, worse overall version of Garnett for KG.

EDIT: I forgot Bender was on our team.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I'd certainly do JO + Jasikeviscius + Bender or something like that.


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## The Man (Aug 20, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> I'd certainly do JO + Jasikeviscius + Bender or something like that.


I doubt Jasikevicius is going anywhere. I really hope a Garnett to Indiana trade does not happen.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> I'd certainly do JO + Jasikeviscius + Bender or something like that.


Saras is going nowhere, he is favourite Bird's player. The primadona Tinsley should go.


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## jdohman (Nov 20, 2005)

We should just work somethign out with tinsley where we do the JO and tinsley deal and then have tinsley not report and sign right back lol


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

mauzer said:


> Saras is going nowhere, he is favourite Bird's player. The primadona Tinsley should go.



It's ironic how you call one of the leauge's best assist men and ultimately one of the most team oriented players selfish and conceited.


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## Grangerx33 (Mar 9, 2004)

No way, Garnett is better than JO, but not alot better, maybe a Bender or something with JO and I'll accept, but an All-Star type PG and and All-NBA PF yea right.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

It's very tempting, but the price IMO is too great, J.O. and Tinsley is way too much for K.G. even if he is top 3 in the league....
J.O. and maybe A.J. or Bender, that I would do....



*Go PaCeRs!!!!!!!!*


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

mauzer said:


> Saras is going nowhere, he is favourite Bird's player. The primadona Tinsley should go.



LOL ....
Mauzer u crack me up doggy...


*Go PaCeRs!!!!!!!!*


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## Grangerx33 (Mar 9, 2004)

mauzer said:


> Saras is going nowhere, he is favourite Bird's player. The primadona Tinsley should go.


Wow, I used to like Saras, but all you ever do is talk about him, its starting to piss me off cause its only based on how much you like him, I like the guy and all but I'm gettin sick of reading your idiotic posts of non-sense about him, where did Bird ever say his fav. player was Saras? He didn't.


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

Nope. For the simple face that we won't get better by this trade.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

None should go... we need to give this squad a chance at winning a title before we go and break up our core. I love JO and want him here... nowhere else. But if this year does not end good I will see a need for change... at this point in time however... I don't. Let our team build some chemistry and kick some tail... I say stand pat!


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

jermaine7fan said:


> None should go... we need to give this squad a chance at winning a title before we go and break up our core. I love JO and want him here... nowhere else. But if this year does not end good I will see a need for change... at this point in time however... I don't. Let our team build some chemistry and kick some tail... I say stand pat!


 To me that is the best solution for your team, and scrub role players like Croschere should know his role


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"> <tbody><tr><td class="title_bl">Indiana Trade Breakdown</td></tr><tr><td class="body_bl_np" width="100%"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Outgoing</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
5.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 13.3 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Scot Pollard
6-11 C from Kansas
3.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.6 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Danny Granger
6-8 from New Mexico
No games yet played in 2004/05</td></tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Incoming</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Trenton Hassell
6-5 SG from Austin Peay
6.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 1.6 apg in 25.2 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Wally Szczerbiak
6-7 SF from Miami-OH
15.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.6 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="title_gr">Change in team outlook: +11.0 ppg, +4.9 rpg, and +6.8 apg.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody> </table> 
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"> <tbody><tr><td class="title_bl">Minnesota Trade Breakdown</td></tr><tr><td class="body_bl_np" width="100%"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Outgoing</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Trenton Hassell
6-5 SG from Austin Peay
6.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 1.6 apg in 25.2 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Wally Szczerbiak
6-7 SF from Miami-OH
15.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.6 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes</td></tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Incoming</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
5.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 13.3 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Scot Pollard
6-11 C from Kansas
3.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.6 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">







</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Danny Granger
6-8 from New Mexico
No games yet played in 2004/05</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="title_gr">Change in team outlook: -11.0 ppg, -4.9 rpg, and -6.8 apg.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody> </table> 

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="80%"> <tbody><tr><td class="title_s">Successful Scenario</td></tr><tr><td class="body_s">Due to Indiana and Minnesota being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Minnesota had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</td></tr></tbody> </table>


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

spongyfungy said:


> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"> <tbody><tr><td class="title_bl">Indiana Trade Breakdown</td></tr><tr><td class="body_bl_np" width="100%"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Outgoing</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll believe it when I see it. I'm sure if a trade like this was this close to going down, we would have heard about it from more reliable sources. I don't care who we bring in, I am forever loyal to JO.


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## back2newbelf (May 26, 2005)

on the original tinsley+JO VS garnett trade:
after some thinking, i would do it now (i said no to it before). simply because a player, that led minnesota to the WCF finals 2 years ago with the players he had around him, should easily be capable of getting indiana to the NBA finals(because indiana's supporting cast is much better than minnesota's was back then).....
i can't say i would certainly see indiana in the NBA finals as it is now...with garnett i would.
he has never gotten very far because he just played on mediocre to bad team, being in indiana would change that...just imagine the 03-04's DPOY + MVP playing on one team... 

on the new trade: i don't like it at all:
-Szczerbiak just blows defensively... i don't like him at all...we need tough guys...he certainly isn't one
-giving up granger. maybe it was just talk but they almost everybody on the pacers roster say he's going to be a future all-star? certainly not someone i wanna give up. even if he won't really contribute this year.

just my 2c


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

StephenJackson said:


> I don't care who we bring in, I am forever loyal to JO.


That's my Stephen!

JO is the reason I officially became fanatic about the Pacers... had lived in Indiana my whole life... but was a fan of players... not teams when I was younger.

Should JO go... I will root for him over all... even my Pacers... but I will still be as big a Pacer fan w/o JO here. I am fully converted to Pacer loyalty now... but I would be rooting for Jermaine no matter who he played against... even us...

In that case... I would be wanting a Pacer win... but also for JO to kick our butts :biggrin: 
Good God I hope this trade... nor any other involving Jermaine ever happens... I would be one messed up fan!


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

No... it doesn't make sense age-wise and Vecsey was underrating Tinsley when he proposed this trade. We would have to get a PG back even if it meant sending more. I don't like this idea one bit.


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