# Calderon is off the table



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Wheels just said it in his show, and I thought it deserved its own thread. He said the Raps found teams interested in Ford, so Calderon is absolutely off the table, period.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Well that should put to rest all the Calderon talk that's been here for the past month or so. Here comes Kirk Hinrich!


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

He was never on the table. I tried to explain that earlier.


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## sasaint (Jun 28, 2005)

I think the Blazers would do better to go after Beno Udrih than Kirk Hinrich.


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

lol: hell, maybe he's sure the blazers were the team interested in Ford. How else would he know that a Ford deal was in the works?


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## Darkwebs (May 23, 2006)

Let's get our PG in the draft then. Mayo, Bayless, Gordon, Westbrook, or Augustin. We have some options.


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## Entity (Feb 21, 2005)

I'm not surprised that Calderon isn't for sale. I thought it was a little strange that Toronto was _allegedly_ shopping him, but I had no trouble entertaining the possibilities.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

Darkwebs said:


> Let's get our PG in the draft then. Mayo, Bayless, Gordon, Westbrook, or Augustin. We have some options.


I agree but we will probably need to move up to get any of those PG's. We would need to trade Jack or Sergio anyway. Not sure we could move up much with trading the 13th + Jack/Sergio and some of our 2nd round picks.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Augustine is Jameer Nelson version 2.0.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

No player in the NBA is ever off the table, providing the right offer comes in. Don't surprised if this one gets revisted.


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## HAAK72 (Jun 18, 2007)

sasaint said:


> I think the Blazers would do better to go after Beno Udrih than Kirk Hinrich.


...I agree [affordability, up-side, age, etc, etc]


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## DonCorleone (Jul 1, 2005)

sasaint said:


> I think the Blazers would do better to go after Beno Udrih than Kirk Hinrich.


How is Udrih as a defender? His assist to turnover ratio isn't very appealing.

Comparing their numbers, I'm not sure either Hinrich or Udrih represent a significant upgrade over Steve Blake.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

Darkwebs said:


> Let's get our PG in the draft then. Mayo, Bayless, Gordon, Westbrook, or Augustin. We have some options.


yeah i agree the hinrick talk is weak.


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## sasaint (Jun 28, 2005)

DonCorleone said:


> How is Udrih as a defender? His assist to turnover ratio isn't very appealing.
> 
> Comparing their numbers, I'm not sure either Hinrich or Udrih represent a significant upgrade over Steve Blake.


I watched Udrih while he was with the Spurs. Back when Tony was still learning the ropes, I thought Udrih was the better passer, and I expected him to really push Tony. I always liked his jumper. He seems to have gained weight since then, so I don't think he is as vulnerable defensively. Assist to turnover ratio can be corrected by a good coach. Witness what Pop has done with Tony. Hinrich's field goal percentage stinks. I think Udrih is an upgrade over Blake, and potentially a very good PG in the NBA in the right place under a coach who believes in him. Pop just never did. I'd love to see him, young veteran that he is from a winning organization and with a ring, have the opportunity to lead a young team like Portland. That could be a very good combo both ways.


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## DonCorleone (Jul 1, 2005)

What size and length of contract do you see Udrih getting?


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## sasaint (Jun 28, 2005)

DonCorleone said:


> What size and length of contract do you see Udrih getting?


If I knew that, I'd be an agent! LOL! I am always amazed to see guys talking about contracts on these boards. I'll never get a whiff of 1 million bucks in my LIFETIME, much less a multi-million salary for a YEAR! But, I have seen some speculation that he might be had for the MLE.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Well I'm not too happy with any of the PG options that are still out there. I suppose I would be fine with anything KP does because I trust him, but at this point, I think I'm starting to lean towards waiting another season with the players we have. Perhaps use the 13th on a PG and trade Jack for a future pick. Use a 2nd to grab a 3rd sting C and wait it out. Offer Webster a contract so his cap hold does not eat away at our flexibility next off-season. Bring over Koponen perhaps. And then look again next off-season for our PG. We would have the same trading pieces plus a few next year, plus, we would be far under the cap and could perhaps nab a free agent. But my hopes of getting our future PG this off-season are dwindling.


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## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

I would consider Hinrich an upgrade over Blake and I would love to have him on the team. I also wouldn't mind taking a shot with TJ Ford. Kirk preferred. Westbrook preferred over both.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

oh well life goes on...KP has a month to figure out what he wants to do


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

kirk-no because o f contract
ford-no because of health
westbrook-yes if we get rid of jack so he can play off the bench...he isnt ready to start
augustin-yes...love the guy but same with westbrook...gotta get rid of jack


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Hinrich's contract isn't an issue for me at all. I say he's priority #1 now. Considering his salary declines every year of it, and the desperate need for quality point guards in the league, we can always move him should another guard Pritchard likes becomes available.

Ford won't fly for McMillan. Too much of a defensive liability. He is friends with Aldridge though ...

Westbrook showed promise, but there are players in this draft I'd rather go after.

Augustin. No thanks. Too small.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

I agree with Crimson ^^^^.

I want Hinrich!

I'll be curious to see what Toronto gets for Ford. With his injury/health issues and his contract, I dont think they'll get much.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

kenny vance was saying that toranto was using an old skool tactic of getting more value for Jose'.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I don't see Heinrich as helping out much. There are concerns he is not a point guard, and we don't need another combo guard. He shoots a low percentage, but does have a good turnover to assist ratio. I am not even sure with how he played last year if he could be considered an upgrade, at all.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Portland doesn't need a true point guard. With a Roy-Hinrich backcourt, we'll be totally fine. Hinrich would fit perfect. He can lead, defend, and is big enough of threat from 3-pt land that defenders can't cheat off of him.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

I really think Portland's in the driver's seat. I don't see another team that can offer more.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Good . . . it's one thing to trade for Calderon, it is another to enter the Calderon sweepstakes which it sounded like it was turning into with many teams needing PG and Calderon is the supposed up and coming PG.

I don't follow Chicago much, but there was a lot of Bulls analysis this year given the fact they were billed as the young rising team and force to deal with in the east. Part of the analysis of what went wrong with the Bulls is the contract they gave to Hinrich and that it was a bad contract (way too much). So why would we want to come in and rescue the day for the Bulls by taking that contract after 1 year?

9 million/yr for a PG sounds fine to me . . . I just think the Blazers can do better than Hinrich for that money.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i dont get the man crush on hinrich....to me he seems like a dan dickou and blake mix....that is overpayed and rated.


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

I'm calling BS on this. There is no way Wheels or KP can know at this time for sure that Ford is going to be traded, unless there is a promise that the Raptors are going to trade Ford to the *Blazers*. (highly unlikely) I think we have two GM's blowing smoke, trying to jockey for a position of strength in a trade. I'm thinking this is just round 1 of the negotiations.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Utherhimo said:


> i dont get the man crush on hinrich....to me he seems like a dan dickou and blake mix....that is overpayed and rated.



IMO, he's brings much more to the table than Blake/Dickou mix.

Check out Kirk's career averages. I love Blake, but he couldnt put up those #'s if he was in Kirk's situation.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kirk_hinrich/career_stats.html


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Utherhimo said:


> i dont get the man crush on hinrich....to me he seems like a dan dickou and blake mix....that is overpayed and rated.


They're white. That's as far as the comparisons go for me between Dickau and Hinrich. Blake shares the same height and basked in collegiate success, so he's got that going for him. What neither of those other players have though is his toughness, defensive ability, and control on the offensive end. All this and he's still speedy. Now, I'll admit I'm excusing his performance last year, but I think deservedly so. Channing Frye was in a lose-lose situation in New York. I had predicted that his poor statistics and play weren't indicative of what he was capable of in the right system. I feel the same way about Hinrich. Chicago leaned to heavily on him, asking too much. Secondly, I think he phoned it in and lost focus, which many of you may look down on as a character issue, but I don't. 

Coaching change. Massive retooling. Pairing him up with Frodo Baggins, an inexperienced Deng (who also had a stepback statistically speaking), and a lackluster frontcourt isn't progression. They were set up to fail. I could sort of see the writing on the wall and understand that he may have too. Maybe I'm reading more into than I should be. Anywho, there's more reasons to believe that he would be upper-tier floor general than a bust.

Add this big guard to our line up and watch out. Our team defense would improve ... big time. The smartness level would be tops in the league with Hinrich, Roy, Fernandez and Blake. On offense everyone's job would be easier and I predict Hinrich would have his best shooting percentages of his career. He wouldn't have big guards plucking up shots all the time over him like he does in Chicago. He could focus on shutting down the opposing 1 and not make up for the Hobbit's deficiencies. And for all those that grimace when Jack goes up for a shot around the hoop, Hinrich can finish. He's not going to be a big time slasher or penetrator, but he's going to get the job done at a higher level than Blake can. 

It would be like having two coaches out on the floor at any one time. That's the level of leadership we add with him. Throw in his all-around skills and it's a no brainer for me.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

Where did all this love for Kirk come from. Am I mistaken or did it come out of nowhere when they won the #1? Isn't he making a lot of $$$$ too. Is he THAT much better then Blake?


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

The love came about when Chicago got the #1. Before that I didn't think Hinrich was gettable.

And I'm not even trying to say Hinrich is all that. He's not a star. He's definitely below the level of all the unbelievable points that have surfaced in the last few years. But IMO he fits very nicely into Portland's system. He would be a Nate guy. Exactly the kind of guard Nate has wanted. And maybe most importantly, he's the perfect answer to defending Paul, Williams and Parker in a 7-game series.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

KP said that he wants more athleticism in the back court. That makes me think that if were actually keeping the pick (which I doubt), were going to be hoping that we can land either Westbrook or Gordon. If those players aren't available when our time comes, or we can't trade up and get them I think that the pick is moved. In that situation I think we target somebody like Kirk Heinrich.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Yes, Hinrich would be a big upgrade at defense...but on the offensive end, I'm not so sure. Blake is a better shooter, but Hinrich can do a little more on offense than just sit back and wait for the open jumper.

If Hinrich could run the break and was a little bit of a better shooter, he'd be a great fit for Portland...but as of now, he's just a marginal upgrade. If we could get him for #13 and Jack, why not?

He may not be a perfect player, but it never hurts to upgrade. The addition of him and Oden to the starting lineup could turn us into a defensive power.


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## DonCorleone (Jul 1, 2005)

Yega1979 said:


> He may not be a perfect player, but it never hurts to upgrade.


That isn't always true since salary cap implications must be factored in. If you are not _significantly_ upgrading yet are spending significantly more money to do it and significantly hampering your future salary cap flexibility, it might be a negative overall, all things considered.

Let's hypothetically say that Hinrich was a free agent and the Blazers had some salary cap space. Would Pritchard value Hinrich enough to sign him to a 4 year deal at 9+ million per season? I don't know the answer to that. For me, that scenario isn't even a slam dunk, even with the Blazers not having to give up any players/picks to bring Hinrich on board. When you factor in the players/picks that would need to be traded in order to make the deal happen, it makes me even less excited about it.

That being said, I think it is certainly possible that Hinrich's level of play could improve if he was traded to the Blazers. It wouldn't be the first time a player upped his game with a change of scenery. I am just not certain enough that he will be a big enough upgrade over Blake to make it worthwhile when taking everything into consideration. However, if Pritchard decides Hinrich is worth the gamble I will be open minded about it and have faith in Pritchard. He certainly knows a lot more about the NBA than I do, although he will _eventually_ make a mistake.


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## JAFO (Jul 2, 2006)

Utherhimo said:


> i dont get the man crush on hinrich....to me he seems like a dan dickou and blake mix....that is overpayed and rated.


I don't either. But the remark that Hinrich seems like a Dickau and Blake mix seems kind of like an insult to Dan and Steve. I agree however, that Hinrich is overpaid and over-rated.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

I don't either.

Hinrich is an upgrade, but weighing the options, i don't think its worth it, or i think we could aim for someone better.

He is geting like 3ppg more than blake, .8apg more, is 4-6 years older than our core with a big contract. Also, we would have to give up picks and youth to get him, when we already have Blake, who will play whatever he is told, do what he is told and not complain. 

I'd rather develop a younger PG behind Blake that is in the 20-23 range (Like Oden, LMA, Roy, Rudy, Webster and Outlaw).


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

graybeard said:


> I'm calling BS on this. There is no way Wheels or KP can know at this time for sure that Ford is going to be traded, unless there is a promise that the Raptors are going to trade Ford to the *Blazers*. (highly unlikely) I think we have two GM's blowing smoke, trying to jockey for a position of strength in a trade. I'm thinking this is just round 1 of the negotiations.


yeah thats my take on the situation too.:dancingpadlock::dancingpadlock:


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Funny how people keep pointing out Hinrich's marginal increase in offensive stats over Blake. Defense is half of the game. IMO, he's a big upgrade over Blake in that regard. And THAT is what I believe Portland's trying address with this potential move.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> And THAT is what I believe Portland's trying address with this potential move.


Has KP even said he is interested in Hinrich? Are you just speculating that he is interested in Hinrich? And he is interested in Hinrich because he wants to adress our need for a defensive PG?

And if its defense he wants, there are players in the draft that can defend that are younger, cost less, and are more athletic (something KP said he wanted).


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

Utherhimo said:


> yeah thats my take on the situation too.:dancingpadlock::dancingpadlock:


 Nobody seems to want to talk/think about it, but in actuality the only way that KP or Wheels could possibly know that Ford was going to be traded for sure is if they've already came to terms and Ford was being traded to the Blazers. *That is the only way it is a certainty.* Ford does fit the speed and athleticism requirement that KP was talking about. If KP could get Ford for the 13th pick and Jack, would he do it? C'mon guys let's hear it.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

MrJayremmie said:


> Has KP even said he is interested in Hinrich? Are you just speculating that he is interested in Hinrich? And he is interested in Hinrich because he wants to adress our need for a defensive PG?
> 
> And if its defense he wants, there are players in the draft that can defend that are younger, cost less, and are more athletic (something KP said he wanted).



Totally speculating, which is why I said "THAT is what I believe". I'm just trying to connect the dots. I thought it was widely known that McMillan wants a defensive-minded guard that can handle the playmaking (relieving Roy). Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Proof of this? Nate's stubborn infatuation with Jack. I sure I've heard him speak of this longing for a defensive stud at the 1. 

I'm not sure that's the right direction we should be going, but if we are, I like Hinrich.

You mention players in the draft. I'm assuming you're thinking of Westbrook, Bayless, Gordon, or Mayo?

Mayo's character issues could be a red flag (not for me). I was not impressed with Gordon or Bayless and I watched maybe about 4 or 5 games of theirs. They're young, so they could be something special still. I get the impression that they're wanting to find a starting 1 for next season though. Those players wouldn't cut it. And they didn't show enough for me to waste a lottery pick on them. 

Westbrook did show that he's going to be a skilled player and I believe a starter-caliber player. But why does it have to be Hinrich OR Westbrook. Why not go after both if possible? 

I would only want Hinrich if we can move Lafrentz and Jack (or the #13) for him. That still leaves a heck of a lot of options to move into the #6 to #9 spot where Westbrook is available.


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

Crimson the Cat said:


> Totally speculating, which is why I said "THAT is what I believe". I'm just trying to connect the dots. I thought it was widely known that McMillan wants a defensive-minded guard that can handle the playmaking (relieving Roy). Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Proof of this? Nate's stubborn infatuation with Jack. I sure I've heard him speak of this longing for a defensive stud at the 1.
> 
> I'm not sure that's the right direction we should be going, but if we are, I like Hinrich.
> 
> ...


 We probably won't be serious championship contenders for another 3 years. That's time enough to groom a this year rookie point guard for the position. I'm just sayin that we don't need to get a vet pg right now.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Totally speculating, which is why I said "THAT is what I believe". I'm just trying to connect the dots. I thought it was widely known that McMillan wants a defensive-minded guard that can handle the playmaking (relieving Roy). Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Proof of this? Nate's stubborn infatuation with Jack. I sure I've heard him speak of this longing for a defensive stud at the 1.
> 
> I'm not sure that's the right direction we should be going, but if we are, I like Hinrich.
> 
> ...


Because, what i think, is going after somebody 4-6 years older than our core with a big contract, and giving up a lot of player for him, just isn't worth it. I also think that giving up our youth for somebody that may or may net mesh with our team/Roy (its all speculation) when we have a player like Blake who doesn't turn it over and can make open shots (2 things that we need in a pg) who doesn't compain and will play when he's told, and has a really cheap contract, well, i just feel there is no need to bring in someone of Hinrich's caliber. 

If we are going to go for a PG, imo, we should go for someone around the level of Calderon, even if we have to give up a good amount, or someone with a lot of potential and is young, like Ellis or STuckey. 

I also advocate for a draftee because the cost is minimal. I love our team and would LOVE to see us mostly together. I would love to have a minor change of putting a PG behind Blake and letting him learn.



> would only want Hinrich if we can move Lafrentz and Jack (or the #13) for him. That still leaves a heck of a lot of options to move into the #6 to #9 spot where Westbrook is available.


Now, my friend, I think that the Blazers would HAVE to pull the trigger, because that is chump change to give up for Hinrich, but that is a different story. But how realistic is that? I really think the Bulls can get a good player or high draft pick for Hinrich (like the Clippers #7 and cash).

Some of the reasons i feel we shouldn't go after Hinrich is because I do not feel that he would be worth what we would have to give up to bring him in.

That is how i feel about the hinrich situation. But like most, if KP did the deal, i'd be cool with it, because i trust KP. The dude hasn't led us astray yet.

Anyway, i do agree with you post for the most part.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

MrJayremmie said:


> Anyway, i do agree with you post for the most part.


It seems that many of us have slightly differing views of what Hinrich is capable of and what that means to Portland. There definitely aren't any top-tier point guards left on the market if Calderon is off limits. I really don't think Ellis is going to be available, at least not for the pieces we'd be offering. I hadn't considered Stuckey, mainly because I also don't think he's going to be available either. 

I read comments from Dorsey at the Pre-draft camp in Orlando where he stated that Rose was going to Miami at #2. Evidently Rose told him that Chicago was not selecting him. If true, and Paxson tried his best to say that it wasn't, then this speculating is probably for not. But, If they are open to moving Hinrich, and can't find any thing better than Jack and Lafrentz, I say go for it. 

You mentioned that deal with the Clippers, but they don't have an expiring contract and I don't see Chicago wanting any of their other large contract people except Kaman, but then I don't think the Clippers would move him. I really see Portland in the driver's seat. Keep in mind if we had to up our ante then Portland could also throw in a 2nd Rounder, which are more valuable than ever. 

What's exciting to me is that Portland has so many options. In any event, we'll be able to upgrade our point guard spot this off season. To what degree is the question.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

from ESPN.com



> Jose Calderon | Raptors
> 
> Another strong indication Jose Calderon will return as the Raptors' starting point guard came last week, when he fired his U.S.-based agent. "I received the termination letter last Thursday," George Bass, who had represented Calderon for eight years, said in an interview.
> Calderon will now be represented solely by Spanish-based agent Paco Lopez Costell.
> ...


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Arggh! Man getting a great point guard is difficult. I know I sound greedy, considering the excellent players we've already gotten.

I know a lot of people aren't high on Chalmers, but dude is going to be a solid player for a team. Defensively the tools are there. His shot is there. He's got an excellent attitude. Fast. Has size. Good handles and low turn over rates. 

I wouldn't even mind Portland just biting the big one and moving down in the draft to get him. Okay, I'll duck and cover now.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Crimson the Cat said:


> Arggh! Man getting a great point guard is difficult. I know I sound greedy, considering the excellent players we've already gotten.
> 
> I know a lot of people aren't high on Chalmers, but dude is going to be a solid player for a team. Defensively the tools are there. His shot is there. He's got an excellent attitude. Fast. Has size. Good handles and low turn over rates.
> 
> I wouldn't even mind Portland just biting the big one and moving down in the draft to get him. Okay, I'll duck and cover now.


I am with you on that. I just hope that Portland can either pick up a second pick in the first round to snag him, or reach at 13 to get him.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

My fear is that Phoenix will select him at 15. They had him in to work out on the 6th. The Clippers had him in yesterday I believe. Do you think there's anyway they'd draft him at #7 or trade down a bit before or us and still get him?

If LA's looking for a point guard, they may feel Chalmers is more polished than Westbrook and less undersized than Augustin. 

I'm surprised that Indiana hasn't worked him out yet.


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

Crimson the Cat said:


> Arggh! Man getting a great point guard is difficult. I know I sound greedy, considering the excellent players we've already gotten.


its not _that_ difficult. well, one does have to be cognizant of the PG being the highest value position (although an argument can be made for center).

the difficulty arises with a concept of getting a pointguard without expending assets of relative value.

anyway... in related news, there was a blurb in a chad ford chat claiming the 76ers are high on jose.


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