# ny and utah....2 completely different views



## gp366 (Jul 19, 2003)

Just insight about Utah:

Utah trades: Keon Clark, Deshawn Stevenson

Utah gets: Gordan Giricek, Tom Gugliotta


Facts about NY:

NY got rid of: Keith Van Horn, Michael Doleac, Lampe

NY got: Marbury, Penny, Tim Thomas, Nazr Mohammed

Not to sound racist, but Utah got whiter and NY got darker.

is that fair?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

:laugh: :laugh: 

The truth is many black players don't want to play in Utah. It will be interesting to see if they can fill their roster up with talent, since there is a minimum salary cap.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

So speaking of white guys and Utah, when would Doleac come off waivers if he isn't claimed so we could sign him? 

As an aside, then what will those who charge racism against Isiah say?


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Googs was a cap move, and Giricek > Stevenson.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Utah also traded Ben Handlogten. He's white. They only added 1 white guy in the trades.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>!
> So speaking of white guys and Utah, when would Doleac come off waivers if he isn't claimed so we could sign him?
> 
> As an aside, then what will those who charge racism against Isiah say?



They'll say that Larry Bird would be just another player if he was Black.



Anyway, I don't know about Giricek a better acquistion than Deshawn. I think DS was just not getting along in Sloans system, however he is in my mind both a better and more versatile player. Giricek is 26 year old shooter, DS can do a lot of things he can't


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

What i don't get is how the Suns would trade 2 first round picks plus Tom Gugliotta, with a big expiring contract, for Keon Clark and Ben Handlogten. First round picks are valuable, and so is a big expiring contract. Keon Clark is a good player, but he has played only 2 games this season, and has an expiring contract too, so the suns might not resign him. It's the first year in the league for 28 year-old Ben Handlogten, and he hasn't performed enough to show he is worth even close to what the Suns traded, plus he is out for the season. I don't get the Suns, is Keon clark worth that much? If they wanted an expiring contract, Tom Gugliotta had a bigger one. Can anyone enlighten me on this trade?


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dcrono3</b>!
> What i don't get is how the Suns would trade 2 first round picks plus Tom Gugliotta, with a big expiring contract, for Keon Clark and Ben Handlogten. First round picks are valuable, and so is a big expiring contract. Keon Clark is a good player, but he has played only 2 games this season, and has an expiring contract too, so the suns might not resign him. It's the first year in the league for 28 year-old Ben Handlogten, and he hasn't performed enough to show he is worth even close to what the Suns traded, plus he is out for the season. I don't get the Suns, is Keon clark worth that much? If they wanted an expiring contract, Tom Gugliotta had a bigger one. Can anyone enlighten me on this trade?


I don't know all the little exact things behind this, but I've read multiple times that this trade will save Phoenix at least $13.5 million dollars. One pick is I believe New York's, which will probably be in the mid-high teens, and the other has protections on it through like 2010. Basically, they are somehow cutting a lot of money here, both from Gugliotta's contract and having to pay two first round rookies.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Easy. I am pretty sure that Gugliotta DOES NOT have an expiring contract. Which is where they get their savings from. This was confirmed when he said he was retiring at the end of NEXT season. If his contract ended this season, no team would likely even sign him.

Even if Googs does have an expiring contract, Clark only makes 5 million, and Handlogten only makes 600,000. The trade does not work under the cap, and does not have to because Utah is under the cap. Goggs makes 11.6 million this season. If this trade is saving Phoenix 13.5 million dollars, it seems very likely that most of that is Googs' salary next season.

Therefore the Suns traded 2 first rounders in hopes that they can sign Kobe with the cap room. They have enough players they need to develop anyway. They need Kobe more than they do a bunch of rookies.

Marion, Amare, JJ, and Jacobsen are "vets" that are developing. Vujanic is another "vet" that will be considered a rookie next season.

Barbosa, Lampe, and Cabarkapa are rookies from this season that they'll want to give time. That's already a 8 man core of very young guys. Toss in Eisley, White, and Voskuhl, and there really isn't much room for any first rounders, especially if Phoenix wants to be a player in the free agent market.


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Easy. I am pretty sure that Gugliotta DOES NOT have an expiring contract. Which is where they get their savings from. This was confirmed when he said he was retiring at the end of NEXT season. If his contract ended this season, no team would likely even sign him.


Tom Guggliotta's contract is indeed expiring. The massive savings are a result of getting under the luxery cap, which not only allow you to avoid a penalty payment, but all the money paid by teams over the luxery cap are distributed to the remaining teams, thus being even 1 cent over the cap can cost you about $10 million.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Gugliotta's contract is indeed expiring... all $11 million of it.

Another difference between these teams? New York will be $52 million over the cap next season, and the Jazz will be $36 under it. Of course, they will have to sign a couple players to hit the minimum cap and what not, but still a very big number.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Knicks still have Trybanski.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> but all the money paid by teams over the luxery cap are distributed to the remaining teams, thus being even 1 cent over the cap can cost you about $10 million.


No, one cent over the cap can cost you about 2 cents. This isn't baseball. You pay a dollar for every dollar over the tax limit you are.


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> No, one cent over the cap can cost you about 2 cents. This isn't baseball. You pay a dollar for every dollar over the tax limit you are.


Read my post, then read it again, then let it sink in. I spelled it out pretty clear. You get the money that teams over the luxery cap pay out if and only if you are under it. Thus you get none of it if you are over the cap. Thus you lose multiple millions of dollars. Get it.

BTW, a good article that adequetly describes the current conversation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1739884


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>H2O</b>!
> 
> 
> Read my post, then read it again, then let it sink in. I spelled it out pretty clear. You get the money that teams over the luxery cap pay out if and only if you are under it. Thus you get none of it if you are over the cap. Thus you lose multiple millions of dollars. Get it.
> ...


Thanks for the link and everyone who gave me an explanation. If I am understanding this correctly, Pheonix was a bit over the cap before the trade, so they traded Gugliotta and his expiring contract to get under the cap. They got back two players with lesser expiring contracts. In getting under the cap, they would get money from the luxery tax instead of paying. Utah was already under the cap, so they didn't need to help the Suns at all. In fact, if they didn't help the suns, they might have been able to get more money because of one less team under the cap. Howver, Pheonix used two first rounders to get the Jazz to help them. The Jazz would still be under the cap this season, even with Gugliotta, and all of the players' contracts were expiring, so Utah wasn't taking on salary either. Basically, Utah got 2 first rounders to help Pheonix get under teh cap, correct?


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dcrono3</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link and everyone who gave me an explanation. If I am understanding this correctly, Pheonix was a bit over the cap before the trade, so they traded Gugliotta and his expiring contract to get under the cap. They got back two players with lesser expiring contracts. In getting under the cap, they would get money from the luxery tax instead of paying. Utah was already under the cap, so they didn't need to help the Suns at all. In fact, if they didn't help the suns, they might have been able to get more money because of one less team under the cap. Howver, Pheonix used two first rounders to get the Jazz to help them. The Jazz would still be under the cap this season, even with Gugliotta, and all of the players' contracts were expiring, so Utah wasn't taking on salary either. Basically, Utah got 2 first rounders to help Pheonix get under teh cap, correct?


You got it exactly.:yes:


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

They got NY's unprotected pick.

Hopefully Utah gets lucky and uses their lottery pick wisely.


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

I thought the Jazz got the protected one, not the unprotected one.


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dcrono3</b>!
> I thought the Jazz got the protected one, not the unprotected one.


The Jazz get the worse of the Suns or the Knicks picks.

 Why doesn't anyone follow any of the repurcussions of these things, you just have to read the whole article, instead of the first paragraph.


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