# Buss: Bryant isn't untouchable



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Buss, 74, also said Bryant was not necessarily off the table now that the new season had started. Offers will inevitably continue to trickle in, particularly if the Lakers struggle before the February trade deadline.
> 
> "I would certainly listen," Buss said. "At any time, I think you have to do that with anybody. It's just part of the game, to listen to somebody who has a dissatisfied player that you think is going to fit. You can't keep too many loyalties. You've got to look at it as a business. He looks at it the same way I look at it."





> "I tend not to think in basketball terms that many years down the road because things change so dramatically, but he could test the waters at that point," Buss said. "If he still is in that frame of mind, then hopefully we can do a sign-and-trade and get some comparable talent. I would like to think that we win between now and then so that it doesn't come up."





> Buss tried to talk Bryant out of his mind-set at a June meeting in Barcelona, but Bryant continued to voice concerns about the direction of the franchise and reiterated his demand to be traded.
> 
> His unhappiness had steadily grown from the time the Lakers were eliminated by Phoenix in the first round of the playoffs, making it two consecutive first-round knockouts to go with a 121-125 regular-season mark since reaching the NBA Finals in 2004.
> 
> ...





> "You have to get comparable value when you make a trade," he said. "It's very hard to trade somebody like him because people who have enough material to make it worthwhile are usually contenders and they don't want to make the trade.
> 
> "What was offered was not ever under consideration. And I told Kobe that. I told him I would try my best to accommodate his wishes, but that I could not afford to let him go unless we got comparable talent, if there is such a thing. . . . I even told him occasionally what I was offered and I said, 'You have to know that this is not in favor of the Lakers. This would just be terrible to do.' And he said, 'I understand.'


 "

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baske...eadlines-sports-nba-lakers&ctrack=1&cset=true

Well, well, well. Buss is quietly looking into trading Bryant.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

We lost to Milwaukee! :rant: Blow up the team!


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Well...the only problem is that he wants an arm and a leg for Bryant especially dealing with a team like Chicago. We have so many assets so he would just pick and choose. He probably wants: Gordon, Deng, Thomas, and 1st picks.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

I'd do Thomas, Gordon, Noc for K.B.

G Hinrich 6"3
G Bryant 6"5
F Deng 6"9
F Noah 6"11
C Wallace 6"9

= Rings


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

The ROY said:


> I'd do Thomas, Gordon, Noc for K.B.
> 
> G Hinrich 6"3
> G Bryant 6"5
> ...



You gotta think about it through Buss, the LA businessman's, eye. Which of those three are going to bring show-time to the LA Coliseum and fill the seats the way Kobe, Shaq, Magic & Kareem did? He's got a record going back a ways...


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

Surely this puts the final nail in the coffin of the idea that Kobe is the second coming of MJ. MJ would never be traded by the Bulls for any reason ever.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

I don't know that going to the LA times is "quietly" shopping Bryant.

This is either a ploy (one of Phil's team vs. management solidarity tricks) or one of the most ill-timed interviews (now that everything out here in LA has calmed down) I've ever seen bordering on stupidity.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Loyal I thought the same thing. I'm in OC as well and am stunned at Buss' poor timing. He also just turned Bryant into the good guy in this. However, I do think it's inevitable and maybe Buss is trying to grease the skids a bit.

Strange stuff.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I think he is being shopped. They want something for him so they won't lose him in the future. 

The think is, the Bulls don't HAVE to gut the team to get him. We are pretty good the way we are.


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

35 ppg Kobe who doesn't play defense doesn't win games. 25 ppg Kobe who is a defensive all-first team player who can share the rock with 3-4 other guys is a winner. I think he wants to come here and be MJ. He isn't good enough to average 30 ppg, play great defense and lead a team like Michael used to. Will he sacrifice his game to play here? That's the only way I would consider it.

Kobe (in 3 championship seasons): 25.4 ppg, 0.467% shooting, 20 shots per night
Kobe (in 5 seasons since): 30.0 ppg, 0.448% shooting, 22.5 shots per night and 0 playoff series wins.

Something else to consider is Kobe misses alot of games. In the past 8 years since he's been a starter, he has play 68 or fewer games 4 times and 77 or more 4 times. He has missed 72 games over that span. His body is only going to break down further at this point. In contract, MJ missed only 7 games in the last 10 years with the Bulls including all those extra playoff games.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> I think he is being shopped. They want something for him so they won't lose him in the future.
> 
> The think is, the Bulls don't HAVE to gut the team to get him. We are pretty good the way we are.


This is exactly how I feel. I'm more than content with our roster as it stands right now. Let's go to battle with the guys we've got. 

On the other hand, Pax will only make a blockbuster move (Bryant) if it's in our favor, IMO. Which also works well for us. 

The Lakers asking too much? Fine. Pax doesn't need to make a move right now. He can wait it out till next year, when Hinrich/Nocioni BYC issues are gone, Joe Smith becomes an expiring deal, and Ben Wallace has one year less to go on his deal. By that time the Lakers most likely will have been bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs (again) and Kobe won't be as eager to "listen" to Buss and his excuses.


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## quench23 (Mar 26, 2006)

You cant be serious.

Adding kobe would improve the bulls Tremendously ... EDIT - Please don't attack those with opposing viewpoints.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

If Buss is sincere about getting star power pull the only names that may make sense for the Lakers are Wade, James , McGrady , Nowitski and Arenas ( who would be perfect in LA )

Kobe isn't going to Miami, the Cavs aren't dealing James , the Rox would do McGrady for Bryant - but would Kobe agree ? And if Dirk has another meltdown in Dallas would LA want him 

The darkhorse trade could be Denver . Anthony for Bryant 

This puts the Nuggets as a true vet team with Bryant, Iverson and Camby and support from Martin, Nene and the surprising Linus Kleiza and a true shot at going for it

LA gets a legit superstar now who can wait for his run with Bynum, Crittenton, Farmar , and rely on short to mid term help from Odom , Brown, Mihm , Walton, Cook, Evans and Fisher

LA gets its superstar replacement ( not as good admittedly but a superstar nonetheless to cushion the blow ) and keeps its young nucleus together

Plus this trade gives Kobe a chance to reunite with Von Wafer which I believe would be the clincher for Kobe


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

quench23 said:


> You cant be serious.
> 
> Adding kobe would improve the bulls Tremendously ... EDIT - Please don't attack those with opposing viewpoints.


No attack. However, please elaborate. Adding Kobe would alter our team chemistry and dynamics 100%. We have won more playoffs series than a Kobe led team ever has. Great player for sure. I'm not convinced we would be that much better if we had to surrender two or three or more of our core. I think we'd be as good as the Lakers are now if we did that.


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> The darkhorse trade could be Denver . Anthony for Bryant


Kobe in Denver? I don't think that would be the best PR move for the Nuggets.

How about Kobe to Miami for DWade?


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

lougehrig said:


> 35 ppg Kobe who doesn't play defense doesn't win games. 25 ppg Kobe who is a defensive all-first team player who can share the rock with 3-4 other guys is a winner. I think he wants to come here and be MJ. He isn't good enough to average 30 ppg, play great defense and lead a team like Michael used to. Will he sacrifice his game to play here? That's the only way I would consider it.
> 
> Kobe (in 3 championship seasons): 25.4 ppg, 0.467% shooting, 20 shots per night
> Kobe (in 5 seasons since): 30.0 ppg, 0.448% shooting, 22.5 shots per night and 0 playoff series wins.
> ...



I don't think you can just blindly throw stats and rings up without taking the teams he played on into account. No player in the league is gonna take the supporting cast Kobe has to any championship. 

I think pointing out that he has no rings now in his last five seasons is somehow disparaging his game now. That's not fair.

And are you saying he hasn't played D in five years?


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

LA and Buss would want Ben Gordan and either TT or Noel and very like another player or our 1st round pick next year. 

That is two starters and a pick. I think pax will never trade Deng and IMHO KH is somewhat over paid and buss would want his contract. 

Also i dont think anyone wants to trade a super star even to get Kobe so this would have to be simlar to the Boston KG trade. 

david


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

theyoungsrm said:


> I don't think you can just blindly throw stats and rings up without taking the teams he played on into account. No player in the league is gonna take the supporting cast Kobe has to any championship.
> 
> I think pointing out that he has no rings now in his last five seasons is somehow disparaging his game now. That's not fair.
> 
> And are you saying he hasn't played D in five years?


He hasn't won a playoff series without Shaq. They barely make the playoffs every year and then get beat in the first round. Kobe is not nearly the defender he was during the championship years. All I'm saying is, if he comes to the Bulls, he can't hoist up 27 shots a night, average 35 ppg and not play defense and expect to win a championship. Championship Kobe who scores 25 a night, takes 20 shots and plays great D would make us a winner no doubt.

I look at Lebron and the scrubs he carried to the Finals. Even Iverson when he made it to the finals. They can carry teams. Kobe has yet to prove he can carry the a team. If anything he is another Dominique Wilkins.


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## THEbigO (Apr 9, 2006)

lou...are you being serious right now?

did you see the defense kobe played over the summer during the olympic qualifiers. he was on a team with the best players in the nba and clearly was the best player on the team. the reason he "barely" makes the playoffs and loses in the first round when he gets there is because of his supporting cast and playing in the western conference. lebron wouldnt carry the cavs to the playoffs if they were in the western conference let alone the finals.

just because he doesnt win championships right now doesnt mean he isnt the best player in the nba. he is unreal and with deng, wallace and hinrich im sure he could help put this team atop the east.


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## THEbigO (Apr 9, 2006)

lebron and iverson both carried teams to the top of the EASTERN CONFERENCE.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

lougehrig said:


> Surely this puts the final nail in the coffin of the idea that Kobe is the second coming of MJ. MJ would never be traded by the Bulls for any reason ever.


actually krause wanted to trade jordan around 1988, it was in the jordan rules.

even wilt was traded twice , no one is ever too good to be traded.


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## Brothaman33 (Feb 21, 2006)

OK....I'm gonna play Pax for a second, and I'm no GM so bear with me...

I'm setting boundries immediatly

1. Deng will not be traded
2. I'm talking up Tyrus a lot.
3. I'm talking up Gordon a lot and his 21 ppg.
4. Offer the 1st round pick, we don't need to get younger...
5. Tell him that we are not the Celtics and will not be giving him 7 players
6. Explain that we are very interested, but want a fair deal.
7. If he doesn't budge we walk...

Tyrus Thomas
Ben Gordon
1st rounder next year

That's a start....

Other Notes...

1. While I think he might be getting shunned out of minutes, Nocioni is likes very well by PaxSkiles, I don't think they will be looking to trade him...
2. Noah should be out of the equation, but if we keep Tyrus but have to give Noah, you consider....I also think they will not trade Noah period.
3. I'm not sure salary wise....I would very much consider trading Wallace if they like him at all

It could be done....
BTM's opinion....

I don't think we will trade for Kobe Bryant, PaxSkiles sees no reason to break up the team....DO NOT get your hopes up.

Thankyou


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

Just a reminder for people that Kobe has a no trade clause.

The timing of this and the comments really makes me wonder what was said behind the scenes recently. Things looked to have been mended, bridges rebuilt, then all of sudden this situation gets dragged up yet again.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/ci_7154551

Another article on this...


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Well, count me firmly in the anti-rapist camp. He is the one and only player in history that could make me quit caring about the Bulls. I love our current team, and it would suck to ruin it by trading for him. Looking at it from an unbiased standpoint though, forgetting abouit what a cancer and non-teaammate-friendly player Kobe is though, here is what would make sense for a trade IMO:

Lil Ben, Big Ben, and Thabo. Leaving us with:

Kirk/Duchump 
Kobe/JamesOn
Luol/Thabo
Tyrus/Joe
Joakim/Aaron

Lakers:

Crittenton/Farmar/Fischer
Lil Ben/Sasha
Nocioni/Walton
Big Ben/Odum
Bynum/Mihm/Kwame

Looking at those rosters, if you can get by Kobe's horrible character, both on and off the field, you really couldn't NOT make that trade if they'd accept it. At the same time, from the Laker's side, they're getting good value back in a young shooter and big name in the 2 Ben's. Big Ben would also fair better there next to all of their big guys than he did in Chicago last year. 

BUT, in the end, I want to cheer for a team I like, not just one that wins, so I'm still vehemently against ANY trade involving Kobe to Chicago.

Trading him for Arenas makes the most sense if he'd go for it, as Arenas has stated he's not resigning.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

Ok, maybe I am missing something...

The best player in the NBA wants to play in your city

He is only 29 years old and in his prime

You need a superstar to win championships (plural)

The Bulls have no superstars 

But we do not want to part with our young nucleus (assets)to get a superstar

The Bulls are better served by waiting to see what they have, and wait because maybe Kobe will come on his own (see Andre Dawson) and beat down our door and insist we take him

or 

Perhaps there is a younger superstar or even another superstar that wants to come to Chicago that we would not gut the team to get

I just do not understand... opportunities like this RARELY present themselves, but we are so in love with "our guys" that we should wait and see what happens first

Nutz, I say!!! 

Make the deal if its there, screw potential, screw continuity, screw morals, and best of all, screw the NBA and give Chicago the rings!

WOW, I FEEL BETTER!


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

SPIN DOCTOR said:


> Ok, maybe I am missing something...
> 
> The best player in the NBA wants to play in your city
> 
> ...


Trading for Kobe gives us rings? If that's the case, why doesn't Boston already have the rings locked up? They traded for a top 3 player and an All Star to add to their existing All Star.

What if the deal Buss would accept were Wallace, Gordon, and Thomas for Bryant and Cook?

Hinrich/Duhon
Bryant/Thabo
Deng/Noc
Smith/Cook
Noah/Gray

Does that give us rings (plural)?


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

lougehrig said:


> He hasn't won a playoff series without Shaq. They barely make the playoffs every year and then get beat in the first round. Kobe is not nearly the defender he was during the championship years. All I'm saying is, if he comes to the Bulls, he can't hoist up 27 shots a night, average 35 ppg and not play defense and expect to win a championship. Championship Kobe who scores 25 a night, takes 20 shots and plays great D would make us a winner no doubt.
> 
> I look at Lebron and the scrubs he carried to the Finals. Even Iverson when he made it to the finals. They can carry teams. Kobe has yet to prove he can carry the a team. If anything he is another Dominique Wilkins.


He hasn't won a playoff series because he hasn't had a good team. Accordingly, Shaq hasn't won a playoff series without an excellent cast, more notably a dominate guard (Penny, Wade, Kobe).

As for the later analysis, I don't think that there is any evidence that Kobe's D has declined in the five years. 

Also the fact that Kobe can't hoist up 27 shots a night, average 35 ppg and not play defense and expect to win a championship applies to nearly any premier wing on a team with championship aspirations.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

Rhyder said:


> Trading for Kobe gives us rings? If that's the case, why doesn't Boston already have the rings locked up? They traded for a top 3 player and an All Star to add to their existing All Star.
> 
> What if the deal Buss would accept were Wallace, Gordon, and Thomas for Bryant and Cook?
> 
> ...


some people would argue that the celtics do have the east locked up...


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## quench23 (Mar 26, 2006)

Im watching ESPN they just said

" KOBE WANTS OUT ASAP? he might not started with the lakers this season"


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## quench23 (Mar 26, 2006)

Alright, Heres how I see it.

Kobe Bryant,

- Arguably one of the best SHOOTERS in the league, He's got a mid range game, the three and so on.
- Leader.
- Plays with emotion and alot of heart
- Most complete player in the NBA( Shooting, defense, passing etc.)
- His passing is way underrated, way underrated. Just because he scored 35 points a game, dosen't mean he can't pass...
- He's only 29... In his Prime.
- We'll Give up Gordon, Thomas ... Thomas is way overrated, hes got mental lapses on defense and still has no idea what he should be doing on offense, he isn't a PG, sure he can develop... more on this later. Gordon, sure, hes amazing. But you CAN't tell me you'd rather have Ben Gordon than Kobe. Will Tyrus produce enough to say, I don't want to trade him to get the best player in the NBA? Doubt it. Sure potential is huge, but its overrated too. Hes athletic, so is Cedric Simmons. 

You can't honestly say you wouldn't do a BG Tyrus trade for Kobe. 

And as for chemistry?

Kobe wants rings, Kobe wants to win, he hates to lose, do you really think he won't go back to the 25-8 kobe to win a ring? Please...


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Well, the radio stations out here in So Cal have been on fire since Buss reopened the Kobe can.


XTRA's host were talking that only one team makes sense and that's the Bulls. The Bulls because they are 9 deep and can part with 3, yet still compete with Kobe. However, they were talking about Hinrich, Gordon and Thomas + salary filler.

Would love tos ee some of the real salary possible trades again. 

The basis of the trade seems to be Gordon and Thomas +...........

For Lakers:

PG - Critterton, Farmar, Fisher
SG - Ben Gordon, Vujacic, Evans
SF - Odom, Walton, 
PF - Tyrus Thomas, Vladimir radmonivic
C - Andrew Bynum, Chris Mihm

+ whomever the Bulls include for salary.

A competitive team.......not beter than 7 or 8 seed. Of course, that's probably what they are with kobe.

For Bulls:

PG - Hinrich, Duhon, Thabo
SG - Kobe Bryant, Thabo, Curry
SF - Deng, Nocioni (could be traded, Griffin
PF - Joe Smith, Joakim Noah
C - Wallace (could he be traded for salary?), Aaron Gray,

Interesting. I am of the opinion that I can live with or without the trade at this point.

Would be interesting to see this current unit run together.......Still, Kobe is a hell of a player.

Hang tough Paxson, keep it way in favor of the Bulls. Maybe grab Farmar in this as well.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

Not sure if anyone heard,but ric buchker said that the bulls have proposed 

Ben,Noc,and Tyrus,and probably a draft pick for kobe.And the lakers have thought about it,but they said they want Deng in that deal.So it's looking like the memphis deal all over again guy.And i think the same thing will happen.Deng will stay a bull and kobe will stay a laker.Because again i agree with pax's if he doesn't do this deal.Deng is to valuable and deng and kobe together would be like mj and pip(basketball gods don't hurt me for posting this) all over again i feel.Oh yea don't forget kirk,ben,and we already have noah.And plenty of players that can mix and match at the back up 3 spot.So I'd say if the laker don't take that go to he!!.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

That's the best the Lakers are gonna see from us.............I Hope.

Gordon, Thomas and Nocioni Plus a pick is damn good when the Lakers are not at the advantage here.


Hold tight We are gonna be better than last year with a healthy Nocioni, less tired Hinrich, improved Thomas, Deng, Thabo and Gordon.....Plus Noah and Gray. I like it. No need to do more, though I would part with Duhon, Griffin, Kryapa if they'd like.


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## THEbigO (Apr 9, 2006)

was this actually proposed or was it speculative trade talk?

if kobe becomes a bull i am buying 3 new bulls jerseys...kobe-red, kobe-white, kobe-black


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Not sure if you guys heard about this or already posted.

Matt "Money" Smith on AM570 reported he heard of a trade for Kobe that Buss turned down, but this is the one that intrigued him the most.

Deng, Thomas, Thabo, Duhon, 07 1st (Noah) for Kobe

Not sure how exactly that works out... as I don't believe the salaries match, almost positive on that, and I don't see why Gordon wouldn't be in the deal, and Deng is.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Eternal said:


> Not sure if you guys heard about this or already posted.
> 
> Matt "Money" Smith on AM570 reported he heard of a trade for Kobe that Buss turned down, but this is the one that intrigued him the most.
> 
> ...


If he turned that down, thats as good as he will get, if it was offered.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> If he turned that down, thats as good as he will get, if it was offered.


According to him it sounded like it was offered awhile ago though, I'm sure things have changed since then.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Pax would be stupid to offer that much. 

Noah/Thomas/Deng is our frontcourt of the future, and a damn good one at that.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

SALO said:


> Pax would be stupid to offer that much.
> 
> Noah/Thomas/Deng is our frontcourt of the future, and a damn good one at that.


I'd say it's worth it if you take out Deng and add Gordon, and have that as the main package, while adding in others to have the salaries match, which I'm not sure how that would work exactly.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Gordon, Thomas, Duhon and Khyrappa for Bryant works under the CBA 

For what its worth I believe that 

1. Gordon would work like a treat with Odom and with bigger guard in Crittenton it makes some sense 

2. Tyrus Thomas gives them a legitimate shot at the star pull


Duhon and Khyrappa are expiring deals and with Kwame Brown's expiring deal you can make a play up to a $20M'ish purchase price of someone else 

Maybe the could throw Andrew Bynum and Javaris Crittenton into the deal with these expiring contracts and make a play for Pau Gasol and Mike Miller

Gasol will surely be shifted before too long ( for young talent and expiring contracts ) 

This would leave the Lakers looking like 

*

Gasol
Thomas
Odom
Miller
Gordon

bench

Mihm
Cook
Radmanovic
Evans
Fisher

*

That's a pretty competitive team in the West with some genuine starpower and some upside ( Thomas and Gordon ) 

Memphis would only have to endure until the end of next season to be without Stoudamire and Swift's contracts - and the season after for Cardinal's but would be left with a core of :

Bynum , Milicic , Warrick, Gay , Conley , Crittenton and Lowry . 

Plus the inevitable high lottery picks for the next couple of years and cap space . Good time for them to blow it up and start again

The Bulls shape up as 

*

Wallace 
Smith 
Deng
Bryant
Hinrich 

bench

Gray
Noah
Nocioni
Sefolosha 
Barrett

Griffin 
Gardiner ( to make up the minimum 12th spot )

*


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Actually ....I think Griffin and $600K ( say a signed - non guaranted deal for Jameson Curry ) would need to be added to the deal to work 

Which means that Gardiner is our 11th man and we're in need of a Paul Shirley type 12th man


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Gordon, Thomas, Duhon and Khyrappa for Bryant works under the CBA
> 
> For what its worth I believe that
> 
> ...


I'd say that deal works out for both teams.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

theyoungsrm said:


> He hasn't won a playoff series because he hasn't had a good team. Accordingly, Shaq hasn't won a playoff series without an excellent cast, more notably a dominate guard (Penny, Wade, Kobe).


03-04 Miami with *Wade (61 games), Butler, Odom, Brian Grant*, Udonis Haslem, Eddie Jones and Rafer Alson got to the 2nd round in the East. 42 wins.

04-05 Lakers with *Kobe (66 games), Butler, Odom, Grant*, Chris Mihm, Jumaine Jones Brian Cook and Chucky Atkins won 33 games and missed the playoffs.

I'm not saying that's definitive or anything, there was a lot of stuff going on. East vs. West. Coaching chaos, somewhat different supporting cast and probably slightly better in Miami. But still, when I look at that, it's kind of hard to figure, based on Kobe's reputation and the other similarities, the Heat team was 9 games better than the Lakers team.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Actually ....I think Griffin and $600K ( say a signed - non guaranted deal for Jameson Curry ) would need to be added to the deal to work
> 
> Which means that Gardiner is our 11th man and we're in need of a Paul Shirley type 12th man


Yeah, I think you're right. I'd be up for it. If a deal like that got done sooner rather than later, I'd be dialing up Allan Houston. Solid citizen and I wonder if he can still play. When I look at our team after the trade, I'm seeing pretty good options everywhere except backing up the guard slots. I'm still inclined to think Thabo's more of a three than a one or a two, and Barrett isn't exactly... um... experienced.

1- Hinrich, Barrett
2- Bryant, _Thabo_
3- Deng, Noc, Thabo
4- Smith, _Noc, Noah_
5- Wallace, Noah, Gray

Is Earl Boykins still out there? If you're going to go for Kobe, you might as well go whole hog on trying to fill any and all weaknesses you can after the trade.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

c/o the Newark Star-Ledger:



> So, would a package revolving around Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas and/or Andres Nocioni work? Could the Mavericks put together a workable deal around Josh Howard?


Yeah, those two packages are basically equal.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

MikeDC said:


> Yeah, I think you're right. I'd be up for it. If a deal like that got done sooner rather than later, I'd be dialing up Allan Houston. Solid citizen and I wonder if he can still play. When I look at our team after the trade, I'm seeing pretty good options everywhere except backing up the guard slots. I'm still inclined to think Thabo's more of a three than a one or a two, and Barrett isn't exactly... um... experienced.
> 
> 1- Hinrich, Barrett
> 2- Bryant, _Thabo_
> ...


Allan Houston signed with the Knicks, if I recall correctly.


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## Mr.Montross (Sep 24, 2005)

King Joseus said:


> Allan Houston signed with the Knicks, if I recall correctly.


Houston signed a non-guaranteed contract. He most likely not be on the Knicks opening day roster.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

MikeDC said:


> 03-04 Miami with *Wade (61 games), Butler, Odom, Brian Grant*, Udonis Haslem, Eddie Jones and Rafer Alson got to the 2nd round in the East. 42 wins.
> 
> 04-05 Lakers with *Kobe (66 games), Butler, Odom, Grant*, Chris Mihm, Jumaine Jones Brian Cook and Chucky Atkins won 33 games and missed the playoffs.
> 
> I'm not saying that's definitive or anything, there was a lot of stuff going on. East vs. West. Coaching chaos, somewhat different supporting cast and probably slightly better in Miami. But still, when I look at that, it's kind of hard to figure, based on Kobe's reputation and the other similarities, the Heat team was 9 games better than the Lakers team.


Really hard to compare those teams, one is one of the things you touched on which was East vs West, but the major thing that year was injuries. Kobe was banged up all year and only played in 66 games having one of his worst seasons as a pro, while Odom played in 64.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Some light thrown on what the discussions have been from Sam Smith:



> When Bryant began talking about leaving the Lakers last spring, several teams inquired, including the Bulls.
> 
> Though there were no official discussions, the talk out of Los Angeles is the Bulls mentioned Wallace, Thomas and Gordon in a package. Buss said none of the discussions even came close to interesting the Lakers, thus giving the Bulls an idea of what it might take to acquire Bryant.
> 
> ...


Bulls would add risk in Bryant deal


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Screw the Lakers................

No Deng.........Sorry. You get Grodon, Nocioni and your choice of one of Thomas or Noah. That is painful for the Bulls and the Lakers. No one likes the deal, especially me.

Hinrich, Deng, Thomas...........FOE Get Abo IT


Stand pat, see what you've got Paxson. 

So far, the team looks deep and talented. I'd love to have Kobe, but not at the cost of Deng and Hinrich. We need both for us to be more than an ECF team, which is the caliber I believe we are now.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Basically Buss does not want any Bulls, you will need to pack more valuable players thru the third team.

Example:

Yao Ming, Battier, Mike James, Hinrich and Noah to Lakers

Kobe/Radmanovic/Sura/Alston to Bulls

Deng, Gordon, Nocioni and Thomas to Rockets


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> Basically Buss does not want any Bulls, you will need to pack more valuable players thru the third team.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ...


I think I'd break something if that happened. It's nice to know that that could not and would not happen, though.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Ballscientist said:


> Basically Buss does not want any Bulls, you will need to pack more valuable players thru the third team.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ...



PG - Duhon, Alston
SG - Bryant, Sefolosha
SF - Khryapa, Griffin
PF - Smith, Radmanovic
C - Wallace, Gray


14 or 15 wins?


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## Headfake98 (Dec 10, 2006)

What about a three way trade of some kind?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Chicago is in a win-now mode with Ben Wallace slowing down and is said to be willing to break up its team for the kind of dynamic player they have not had since Michael Jordan.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b..._knicks_nowhere_near_landing_kobe_bryant.html


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Chicago is in a win-now mode with Ben Wallace slowing down and is said to be willing to break up its team for the kind of dynamic player they have not had since Michael Jordan.


i don't think "break up" and "gut" are in any way synonomous. requiring 2 of the 3 of gordon, hinrich, and deng PLUS thomas/noah, nocioni AND a pick is ridiculous, asinine, and absurd, and, based on his track record, there's no way paxson does that. not that the bulls possess any untradeable players, but at this juncture with the contracts structured currently, i don't see it as feasible in any way, shape, form or fashion.

the garnett package was far different in that the C's had 3-4 underperforming young players that were all potential, no production (in terms of winning); the bulls players are not.

it's been written before; the team is on the cusp of contending for the crown *without* kobe; he can opt out in what, two years? he'll be 31 then, i expect that the bulls will have made their move toward the ring and the core guys will all be on big (enough) contracts and wallace will be retirement bound. that's when (if some other team doesn't decide to gut their team first) i expect paxson to make an offer in an S&T.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

You know, this may sound crazy to some, but I probably wouldn't trade Luol Deng for Kobe straight up right now. Kobe's obviously the superior player, but if we give up Deng we're losing a reliable 20+ ppg, 7 rebound, and 50% efficient player that we'd otherwise have for the next 12 years! Kobe we'd have for maybe 4-5 years, and after that he's probably no better than Deng. We're not in such desperate position that we should trade our best player and a cornerstone of the team for the next decade for anybody, save for another young upcoming stud.

To make a play for Kobe, I propose the following:

a) Wait until the Dec 15th deadline first of all, when we have more trade flexibility
b) Nocioni and Joe Smith go for sure -- both have value (Noch especially) and are good cap filler
c) Our '08 first-rounder also goes
d) TWO of anybody not named Deng -- Gordon/Hinrich, Gordon/Tyrus, Gordon/Noah, Hinrich/Tyrus, you get the idea...
e) Deng doesn't go in ANY scenario

Potentially it could look like this: Gordon, Tyrus, Nocioni, Smith, & 2008 first-rounder. Hell, that's practically a new starting lineup for them. Their team definitely is no worse that the past few years.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

The mavs might trade both Devin Harris+Josh Howard for Kobe. which is about equal value of Kirk+Deng.
I would trade Deng+Kirk+Joe Smith+1st rounder, but Lakers will probably ask for either Noah or Tyrus to add in to it.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

The Lakers would need to accept Erick Dampier's horrible contract (worse than Ben Wallace's) in order to make a deal work. Howard is BYC and Devin Harris just signed an extension weeks ago, making him PPP.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

yodurk said:


> You know, this may sound crazy to some, but I probably wouldn't trade Luol Deng for Kobe straight up right now.


Neither would Paxson. One has spent a good fraction of his time and fortune trying to help dying children in Dafur, the other... well no need to list Kobe's offcourt accomplishments.



> To make a play for Kobe, I propose the following:
> 
> a) Wait until the Dec 15th deadline first of all, when we have more trade flexibility
> b) Nocioni and Joe Smith go for sure -- both have value (Noch especially) and are good cap filler
> ...


Two of anybody except Deng is one too many for a player who is 29, who has played 33000 minutes, and who is one-man luxury tax creator.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

GB said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b..._knicks_nowhere_near_landing_kobe_bryant.html





> Still, they can offer Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas and their No. 1 pick last June, Joakim Noah. That would allow the Bulls to put Bryant on the floor with Deng, Kirk Hinrich, Ben Wallace and Joe Smith.
> 
> "That team could win the East and get to the Finals,'' said the Eastern Conference executive.


Notice the exec says we could get to the Finals, but not win the whole thing. Even with Bryant.

Then what's the point? We can win the East and make the Finals right now, and have a much longer window for doing so if we don't trade for Bryant.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Just one question:

Lakers need a superstar, how can you come up with a package to improve the Lakers right away?

Lakers are not in the process of rebuilding.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> Just one question:
> 
> Lakers need a superstar, how can you come up with a package to improve the Lakers right away?
> 
> Lakers are not in the process of rebuilding.


Deng, Gordon, Kirk are all good players, not superstars, but nobody will trade their young superstars for Kobe. I.E Chris Bosh, LBJ. Also the fact that Kobe has no trade clause, so it has to be a team that he's willing to go to. 

With the likes of Deng, GOrdon and/or Kirk on their roster, the Lakers will probably make the playoffs too and just got alot younger. 

I really do think it will be Deng+Kirk+Noah or Tyrus+fillers for Kobe as the principle. Jerry Buss isn't taking Gordon+Tyrus. I know losing Deng hurts, but Noc is a capable starter at the 3, we are very deep at that position. Losing kirk sucks too but we still have alot of guards and Kobe can run the team too. but the no.1 reason being the possibility of seeing Gordon+Kobe at the same backcourt. We are going from a small team at the backcourt to a big backcourt team. Gordon is stronger than almost all the PGs, though his handle isn't that great, but Kobe has great handle and can run the team. All gordon has to do is bring the ball upcourt and give it to kobe to run it. Gordon is a deadly deadly outside shooter, with Kobe on the team, he's going to get all kind of open looks. I'm honestly intrigued by the possiblity of Gordon+kobe at the backcourt. If Lakers just take Kirk+Deng and no tyrus or Noah, it's a no brainer. 

look at our line up:

Gordon
Kobe
Noc
Tyrus/Noah
Wallace

I guess paxson is willing to see how Tyrus and Noah are doing before deciding which one to go. ALot of things can happen between now and the dec15th or the Feb Trade deadline. Tyrus, Gordon could totally blow up and become stars. maybe then it will take less to acquire Kobe at the Feb deadline.but for now, I would definitely trade Deng+Kirk+1st rounder+joe smith for Kobe.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Ballscientist said:


> Just one question:
> 
> Lakers need a superstar, how can you come up with a package to improve the Lakers right away?
> 
> Lakers are not in the process of rebuilding.


If they trade Kobe they will be because they will not get comparable "star" power back for Kobe . That is James, Wade, Anthony etc is not going to happen. Plus Kobe has ultimate veto

Y'know taking your comment into account the Lakers could get Gordon and Thomas back with our expiring contracts of Duhon, Khyrapa, Griffin, and JO Curry and still win roughly the same amount of games without Kobe 

So in that context this package likely wouldn't weaken Lakers in the win/loss

I liken Gordon and Thomas to Odom and Butler as comparative principals to the O'Neal trade

There was a big question mark surrounding Butler's health when he left Miami , equalling questions about Thomas's legitimacy in upside .Odom was a semi star but not quite there. Same with Gordon

At the time Shaq was the biggest name in the league - as Kobe is now

The Lakers aren't desperate to trade Kobe . Fine. We're not desperate to trade for him.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

*How much is to much for Kobe.*

Now I wouldn't mind gettting kobe,maybe the best player in the world,but i wouldn't want to gut our team to get him,and then turn our team into the 1 he just lefted.Now its clear we are his 1st option,and can give the lakers young talent in return and even a draft pick or 2,but i wouldn't trade deng 1st of.I wouldn't want to trade Thomas looking at him thus far in perseason,and i wouldn't want to trade noah or kirk.But you have to trade something to get something.So i thought about it and come up with this deal as the only deal i would do for kobe.

Ben gordan(love him but gots to go for kobe)
Tyrus(we got noah so not all that bad)
Noc(this 1 hurts but again it has to be done and we still have deng)
our next year 1st and 2nd round pick
and if needed VK expiring contract.

Thats it if the lakers don't take that i would keep the team as is period.But i ask you is that still to much and how much is then to much for kobe.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

John Paxson will never trade Deng. Deng is untouchable. And less we forget that Minn got basically Al Jefferson and 7th pick of last years draft for KG. One player and a pick. And i totally agree with one of the earlier posts. LA can have and two bulls starters not called Deng, Noci, and next years pick. That is it. The reason is Kobe is not going to agree to a trade to a team that is so gutted from the trade that his new team will not be competitive for the eastern finals. 

And no one trade three starters for one and that will never happen. As it is we are trading the 3rd pick from 4 years ago (BG) and last years 2nd pick (TT was really the 2nd pick we just trade down) and our 6th man. And LA gets 3 starters for next year. If Buss thinks he can get more than that lets here it.

david


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

This discussion reminds me of the threads related to the Gasol trade speculation last February.

It's amazing how much Bulls fans overrate the value of a superstar who is 5-10 years older (and has 1/2-1/3 the NBA life expectancy) of the Bulls players who are offered in return, while under-rating Bulls players who have not yet reached their peak productivity. This kind of thinking works well in fantasy leagues where one only needs to consider the current season, but sucks in the real world.

If LA feels the need to trade Bryant, the Bulls should offer Gordon + filler (PJ Brown) and nothing more. Fact is that Bryant is a budget buster and a team chemistry buster. Gordon is likely to have almost as good a season. If LA wants to keep their disgruntled guard or deal him to another team, be my guest. The Bulls don't need him, but LA had damn well better find a way to deal him in the next 12 months, because his market value is going to drop like a rock if LA fails to make the playoffs this year.

This business of asking for 2 or 3 of our starting 5 plus other players and considerations is nothing short of the madness that has doomed the Boston team to mediocrity for the next 10 years.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: How much is to much for Kobe.*



ballerkingn said:


> Now I wouldn't mind gettting kobe,maybe the best player in the world,but i wouldn't want to gut our team to get him,and then turn our team into the 1 he just lefted.Now its clear we are his 1st option,and can give the lakers young talent in return and even a draft pick or 2,but i wouldn't trade deng 1st of.I wouldn't want to trade Thomas looking at him thus far in perseason,and i wouldn't want to trade noah or kirk.But you have to trade something to get something.So i thought about it and come up with this deal as the only deal i would do for kobe.
> 
> Ben gordan(love him but gots to go for kobe)
> Tyrus(we got noah so not all that bad)
> ...


Obviously this is the perfect scenario for the Bulls, but Lakers aren't doing that. They want Deng. As good as Deng is, and I know he's only 22. We are talking about Mr. Kobe Bryant here.The top talent in the NBA. Look at the celtics, they gave up Al jefferson, who's probalby even more valuable than Deng for someone like KG. Kobe is obviously more valueable than KG. I don't think Deng+Kirk is overpaid at all. I think Paxson is waiting to see how this team mesh first, he will give a half of season to see how it goes. If we aren't that good, Paxson will pull the trigger on Deng for Kobe. The best scenario would be we are doing well, and our young cores continue to blossom, and lakers stumble, then we can pay less. perhaps TT just totally blows up and becomes the untouchable by mid season, while Deng just retains his 18/7 averages.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

If you were Portland, would you be willing to make a trade for Kobe with Oden as the centerpiece?

You've already got Roy and L. Aldridge...


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

McBulls said:


> This discussion reminds me of the threads related to the Gasol trade speculation last February.
> 
> It's amazing how much Bulls fans overrate the value of a superstar who is 5-10 years older (and has 1/2-1/3 the NBA life expectancy) of the Bulls players who are offered in return, while under-rating Bulls players who have not yet reached their peak productivity. This kind of thinking works well in fantasy leagues where one only needs to consider the current season, but sucks in the real world.
> 
> ...



LOL, but this utterly ridicious. Gordon for Kobe? LOL. Jefferson+Green+pick for a 32 year old KG. We aren't getting Kobe unless we offer Deng+ either gordon or Kirk. 2 out of the big 3. Unless someone totally busts out and become a star by Feb. then we can talk about 1 core player + fillers for KObe. but at this point, its gonna take 2 of the big 3 core players to get Mr. Bryant.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Sith said:


> LOL, but this utterly ridicious. Gordon for Kobe? LOL. Jefferson+Green+pick for a 32 year old KG. We aren't getting Kobe unless we offer Deng+ either gordon or Kirk. 2 out of the big 3. Unless someone totally busts out and become a star by Feb. then we can talk about 1 core player + fillers for KObe. but at this point, its gonna take 2 of the big 3 core players to get Mr. Bryant.


What you ignore is 
1. KB doesn't want to play for LA anymore. So he's worthless to you as a player.
2. BG is 5 years younger and a better shooter.
3. You don't really have any bargaining leverage -- except to find another team that Kobe likes.
4. Nobody gives a damn whether any of this is fair.
5. KB's salary is a major negative for any team trading for him. Not to mention that he can get up and walk in two years.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> The latest word out of the Kobe camp, in the wake of Jerry Buss' good-riddance interview this past week, is that the Knicks are no longer on his wish list. The Bulls are (for an obvious reason that used to wear No. 23), and the Mavericks are making a strong push.
> 
> The Knicks? Kobe apparently has determined that there wouldn't be enough talent left once Isiah sent half his roster to the opposite coast, and that he has no desire to insert himself into the internal turmoil that has gripped the Garden.
> 
> ...


http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...14,0,4300266.column?coll=ny-sports-columnists


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Writer Roundtable: If Kobe leaves L.A., where's his next stop?



> *Adande*: The Chicago Bulls are the only logical bartering partners for the Lakers. A trade to Chicago gets Bryant out of the Western Conference, so they don't have to worry about his paying multiple visits to their home court each season, or igniting against them during the playoffs.
> 
> *Broussard*: The Bulls have to be the likeliest destination because Kobe wants to go there and they have the young assets to get a deal done.
> 
> ...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

This doesn't make Kobe look good:



> Adande: Jerry Buss' candid comments in Hawaii were the equivalent of a Craigslist ad: Talented superstar available; make your best offer.
> 
> He was infatuated with Bryant, so much so that he coddled him throughout Bryant's sexual assault case, then chose him over a Hall of Fame center and a Hall of Fame coach. Bryant's response was to ask out after things went bad. Buss entrusted Bryant with the future of the franchise, and this was the payback he received. Last week, Buss said this is about "business," but really it's personal.


All say the Bulls have the best chance. But...



> Bucher: Technically, Dallas and Chicago, because those are the only teams currently on Kobe's list. But the field could expand, depending on what the Lakers want in return.
> 
> If the Lakers would accept a Paul Pierce package, he'd happily go play with KG and Ray Allen. Would the Lakers accept a Suns package that didn't include Nash or Amare? He'd go there, too.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Roundtable-Kobe&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

Problem with the pierce trade is that they don't have much "filler" to add since they emptied the cupboard to obtain KG.

That said, after the Mchale/Ainge/Bird connection that has manifested a "no trade" for Los Angeles (and placating Bryant with KG or Oneal) I can't see LA trading Kobe for Pierce.

1.) You would get a dejected Pierce. 
2.) The weak link in the big 3 is Pierce's game right now. Throw Kobe with Allen and KG and you can put them in the finals right away.

Part of the knocks the Lakers took in dealing Shaq was not only non-equal value... but additionally that Miami went ahead and won a title a year following the trade.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

yea the pierce trade is just some espn writers conjuring up something that isn't there.


The celts mortgaged their whole team basically to satisfy pierce and get allen and garnett.

And Pierce, Garnett, and Allen seem to know that not one person will dominate the ball, i dont know if a Kobe/Garnett/Allen position is too much better than a Pierce/Garnett/Allen trio just because of the chemistry issues (known problems with allen and kobe).

B


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_7188560

Some bulls boards are talking this up. 

Many think something is in the works. Bryant has sore knee, Gordon not playing.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Kobe would have to top his best season...oh...just read it yourself:



> I like to use Win Shares to put a player's complete season in perspective, and if you look at the best seasons in the three point era you'll notice some obvious trends. The most obvious: there are only 3 non-big men in the top 30, and none of them are named Kobe Bryant. The second most obvious: Terry Porter's 1990-91 season is #99. Give that man a medal.
> 
> The crux is a really good big man accounts for more wins than a really good guard. Unless that guard is Michael Jordan, and Kobe Bryant isn't Michael Jordan.
> 
> Simple addition and subtraction with last season's Win Shares shows that Kobe would likely have to top his best season to make up for the loss of two of Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng. The trade doesn't look good for the Bulls before salaries are even considered.


http://thankyouisiah.blogspot.com/2007/10/trades-trades-trades.html


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Well I think it will be interesting to see what happens with Kobe. As I said above, His knees are sore, but I wonder if they really are sore.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Mychael Thompson is reporting on 570AM in LA that apparently Kobe has cleaned out his locker at Staples and is prepared to be traded at any moment. This could be rumour and end up not happening but it certainly sounds legit. Rumour has Kobe going to Dallas for Josh Howard, Jason Terry + filler and 2 first round picks. 

Certainly a interesting deal for both teams assuming it's legit...

Got this from a poster in the nba forum...

I dont think its true. Could be fore more leaverage to deal with the Bulls.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Would you rather have Josh Howard, Jason Terry and a couple of ****ty 1sts, or 

Gordon, Ty Thomas, Thabo, Duhon and a couple of ****ty 1sts? Plus Viktor Khyrapa if you call in the next 30 minutes!


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Gordon would lite up LA. Tyrus can play both Pf and sf.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

This 'rumor' is everywhere.

If it's true prepare for another round of Paxson bashing.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

paxson gets bashed? Awwwww pissshaw!


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Sportscenter is on now. Nothing about a trade but they are going to have a small piece about kobe being at the breaking point, mentally and physically.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> Sportscenter is on now. Nothing about a trade but they are going to have a small piece about kobe being at the breaking point, mentally and physically.


Poor, poor Kobe. 

Not.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> Mychael Thompson is reporting on 570AM in LA that apparently Kobe has cleaned out his locker at Staples and is prepared to be traded at any moment. This could be rumour and end up not happening but it certainly sounds legit. Rumour has Kobe going to Dallas for Josh Howard, Jason Terry + filler and 2 first round picks.
> 
> Certainly a interesting deal for both teams assuming it's legit...
> 
> ...


The part about him cleaning his locker is true and false. He did clean it, but didn't clean it out, as in remove everything. He was rearranging things around, as said on a few sites and on ESPN.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Kobe Bryant is too box office for the Lakers to move without some sort of fight. He's not only valuable to Jerry Buss, but to AEG, the company that owns 30% of the Lakers and all of Staples Center. They've been able to completely develop downtown L.A. and a lot of these properties depend on the Lakers success. Buss knows this. Dude's been doing this for too long to let the most box office player in the league go over unhappiness. Magic Johnson asked to be traded in the early 1980s, but Buss never let the guy go. He made things right.
> 
> The difference between this and the Kevin Garnett situation is that the Lakers are not a lottery team with no prospects of improvement. For the most part, injuries killed their season last year. Their number two, three, four, five and six guys each missed at least 25 games. You can't win in this league with injuries like that.
> 
> ...


http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/10/17/staying-rational-about-kobe/


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