# Marbury to GS; Randolph to LAC?



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

This offseason has certainly been interesting to say the least. Elton Brand and Baron Davis may become the first pair of legitimate free agents to EVER change teams during the offseason and not through a sign and trade. These two moves are very good signs for the Knicks. First, it gives us some hope that we can land free agents of this caliber through the free agent market. Second, it may give us an opportunity to get the cash quicker to do so.

Baron Davis leaving the Warriors left them with a gapping hole at the PG position to run their offense. Marbury isn't Davis but certainly have been the kind of scoring PG that plays a very similar game. Steph can't D-up or rebound nearly as well as Davis but the Warriors are a team that have never really relied on defense to win games. Considering that Marbury is just a rental, I could see the Warriors doing it if we took back contracts. *Marbury and future 2nd round picks for Al Harrington and the remainder of Adonal Foyle's contract is something I'd look into doing. *

Brand leaving the Clippers leaves Baron Davis as their best post scorer and only accomplished scorer. As much as Randolph has his baggage, he certainly can ease the pain of losing Brand. I'd take back contracts in this deal as well to make it work. *Randolph and cash for Cuttino Mobley (who has 2 years left on his contract) sounds realistic.*


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

^ I saw this idea on another board yesterday, seems to be every Knick fan thought. The Knicks may get lucky after all.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

This may be why Donnie Walsh is holding onto Marbury after all. Harrington would make sense to target because Walsh drafted him, he fits and has not been productive with the Warriors. I wonder how the Maggette signing would effect all of this?


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Foyle had his contract bought by GS. His contract can't be included in trades, right?!


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Correct. Furthermore, what's the point in trading Marbury? Al Harrington isn't that good and he's especially not 10 million dollars good. I know he only has an additional year, but he doesn't seem worth it.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

urwhatueati8god said:


> Correct. Furthermore, what's the point in trading Marbury? Al Harrington isn't that good and he's especially not 10 million dollars good. I know he only has an additional year, but he doesn't seem worth it.


to help the team win some games. harrington would probably thrive playing in d'antoni's offense. he'd be great in the shawn marion role(offensively). and he wouldn't get in the way of having cap room in 2010.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

In addition to that, the trade allows for us to get a trade exception since Harrington is less than Marbury's.

P.S., don't the Warriors still have to make some sort of payments to Foyle from the buyout? I'm a little ignorant to how the cash is given to a player in a buyout, whether it's a lump sum or several payments.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

> Mike Dunleavy had dinner with [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=atl"][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=atl"]Atlanta Hawks[/URL][/URL] restricted free agent [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3834"][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3834"]Josh Smith[/URL][/URL] on Wednesday. [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha"][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha"]Charlotte Bobcats[/URL][/URL] forward [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3819"][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3819"]Emeka Okafor[/URL][/URL], also a restricted free agent, is among their primary targets.
> 
> However, no offer sheet for either player is imminent. Also, the Hawks and Bobcats are expected to be eager to match any offers to retain their services. The Clippers can dissuade them from that by front-loading any offer and including hefty bonuses.
> "We are going to take a step back and evaluate everything," Clippers President Andy Roeser said. -- Los Angeles Times
> ...


 -- The Press-Enterprise
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

Blank check huh? Give them Randolph! :biggrin:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I have to say, Bootsy Randolph & the Hoop Family in the Holy Land of Asian strippers and drive by shootings is a Hoops Boston dream come true. Proof indeed that God is munificent.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

And Walsh DECLINED a Clippers offer for Randolph because they're not willing to trade Zach JUST for a salary dump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wi...11/knicks_reject_clippers_offer_for_randolph/


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Damn you, Walsh!!! You're making my life more difficult! :mad2:


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

Zuca said:


> And Walsh DECLINED a Clippers offer for Randolph because they're not willing to trade Zach JUST for a salary dump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wi...11/knicks_reject_clippers_offer_for_randolph/


A first round pick and Shaun Livingston would do just fine!


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

Gotham2krazy said:


> A first round pick and Shaun Livingston would do just fine!


except shaun livingston isnt a clipper right now.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

....and Livingston couldn't even be had in a sign and trade.

To be honest, I'd take Cuttino Mobley and a 2nd round pick and be happy. Mobley fills a need for a backup SG (or a starting SG if Crawford falters) with a contract on the verge of expiring. I guess Walsh is playing hard ball considering the fact that we are giving up a 20 and 10 big man. I hope he does not lose the opportunity to do so by being to stern.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Oddly enough, Walsh turned down a deal involving Randolph for a 2nd round pick. Considering his whole thing since coming here was getting beneath the cap by 2010, I find it unusual for him to reject this trade. Apparently he's holding out for Eric Gordon but I honestly don't think the wait is worth it. I'd personally prefer Al Tornton who has showed he has some game and could be an excellent compliment next to Gallo in the future at the forward spot. If not Al, then a 1st round pick and/or 2nd rounders but even that I think is a stretch.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Clippers would be stupid to give Al Thornton, Eric Gordon or even a 1st rounder (except if it's a Top 20 protected) for Zach and his big contract. Mobley and a 2nd rounder is actually more than enough for him.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

All Portland did last season was get rid of one player on their Roster, the so-call Franchise PF-Player with 20-10 stats (Zach Randolph). Steve Francis did not have to leave New York, Portland Management FEDEX him a $30 million dollar check to stay out of Portland. Darius Miles was banned from Portland Practice Gym, lockerroom, and team meetings. 

*The Big thing that should be on every Knick-Fan mind is that the Portland Blazers Draft Pick of a Star Big Center Greg Oden out of the draft and seconds later on draft night traded (or really buy-out) their frontcourt Star PF Zach Randolph with a 20-10 stat record for a $30 million buyout player Steve Francis. Why? 
Knick-Fans should be looking for the reason why Portland made such an EXPENSIVE move to get rid of Zach Randolph.* 

Is coach D'Antoni a better coach than coach McMillian? 
Could coach D'Antoni lead the youngest roster in the league to 14 straight consecutive wins and have an above .500 season with medocrity PG like Portland coach McMillian did last season from his previous 32 win season roster that included Zach Randolph? 

Have any Knick-Fan seen all the "FLAWS" in Zach Randolph talents on a fastbreak and in an uptempo system? is D'Antoni a miracle worker to fix Zach flaws in one offseason when coach Cheeks and coach McMillian could'nt? 

The Clippers would be a better place for Zach Randolph with Kaman & Davis putting Zach in his place for lacking off of the defensive end of the court. 

*And everyone in this Forum wondered why I called Donnie Walsh an idiot who will turnout worst than Isiah and Layden...*


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Walsh turn down the deal to trade Zach because he is an "Idiot", who hired an idiot offensive coach D'Antoni who cut defensive F/C-Randolph Morris from the Knicks Summer League Team to let Morris go to the Celtics Summer Bigman Training Camp who has become the Big Talk in the Celtics Camp as a great pickup. 
Now the Knicks frontcourt Players are looking weaker each day of the NBA trades, and FA signings. 
*The Knicks Frontcourt line C-James, C-Curry, PF-Zach, PF-Lee.* 
Zach is a 36 mpg liability to all his teammates on the court with him. 
His rebounding is a non-factor without any passing-skillz.
His poor offensive talent is a big non-factor when he refuse to use his big body to pick off his teammates defenders. 

No one knows what the Clippers offered the Knicks for Zach, they probably did offer Draft Pick Eric Gordon which would make it essential that the Knicks would have to buyout Marbury to add a 6th Guard to the roster. Which would practically eliminate teams trying to trade for Marbury for cap space this offseason.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

The Celts went out and signed Patrick O Bryant.




Kiyaman said:


> Walsh turn down the deal to trade Zach because he is an "Idiot", who hired an idiot offensive coach D'Antoni who cut defensive F/C-Randolph Morris from the Knicks Summer League Team to let Morris go to the Celtics Summer Bigman Training Camp who has become the Big Talk in the Celtics Camp as a great pickup.
> Now the Knicks frontcourt Players are looking weaker each day of the NBA trades, and FA signings.
> *The Knicks Frontcourt line C-James, C-Curry, PF-Zach, PF-Lee.*
> Zach is a 36 mpg liability to all his teammates on the court with him.
> ...


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> All Portland did last season was get rid of one player on their Roster, the so-call Franchise PF-Player with 20-10 stats (Zach Randolph). Steve Francis did not have to leave New York, Portland Management FEDEX him a $30 million dollar check to stay out of Portland. Darius Miles was banned from Portland Practice Gym, lockerroom, and team meetings.
> 
> *The Big thing that should be on every Knick-Fan mind is that the Portland Blazers Draft Pick of a Star Big Center Greg Oden out of the draft and seconds later on draft night traded (or really buy-out) their frontcourt Star PF Zach Randolph with a 20-10 stat record for a $30 million buyout player Steve Francis. Why?
> Knick-Fans should be looking for the reason why Portland made such an EXPENSIVE move to get rid of Zach Randolph.*
> ...


1.) The Blazers had LaMarcus Aldridge sitting on the bench behind Randolph. That is the major reason why he was dealt. You don't move a 23 and 12 big man simply because he has a bad attitude. You do move him if you just traded a big man that could officially have his career be the definition of an era. You also move him if you have LaMarcus Aldridge in the wings. The Blazers were also rumored to have taken less to keep Randolph out of the West.

2.)The Blazers were in desperate need of a trade exception to acquire the rights to Sergio Rodriquez and James Jones. Without making a trade, they would not have been able to do so. By making this trade they essentially were able to not only free up time for Aldridge but brought in 2 players that were good enough to be a major part of the Blazers plan for the future. They did get cheap and let Jones go but did have a slew of SF's that were all equally talented.

3.)One poor trade does not deserve another. The Blazers did improve without Randolph but certainly did not get enough back in their trade involving him. A big man as young and talented as he is could get much more in return. His poor defense and passing do not eliminate the fact that he is one of the best post scorers in the league as well as one of its best rebounders. All you really need is an established system with an established culture of winning (especially success on the defense end) to harness his true gifts.

This reminds me of the Celtics trade for Sebastian Telfair. They gave up future all-star Brandon Roy (and Theo Ratliff) for him and Raef LaFrentz. The Celtics managed to eventually parlay those two players, as minor components of a package, for Kevin Garnett who eventually lead them to a title. That still does not change the fact that they got fleeced in the deal. Same with the Randolph trade as much as I love Kevin Pritchard's work in Portland.

4.) If you think the Blazers PG's are mediocre, you have not been watching them play. They did exactly what a PG is suppose to do and more.

5.) I think D'Antoni is a better coach than McMillian and actually wanted him to replace Nate in Portland. The Blazers running would have been a beautiful thing to watch.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*This place is insane..*

Everybody is in full "*****" mode. I can't see where Walsh has made a definite mis-step yet. He got rid of IT. He drafted a guy that nobody knows how good he will be, yet they assail the crap out of it because he either didn't draft "their" guy or make a move they don't even know could have been made to draft "their" guy....who btw, hasn't played in an NBA game yet, either. He got a young, solid, ball distributing, and defensive minded PG who will at least end up being a good back up in future years. He over paid for the right to get a 2 year deal (cap space in 2010). He is working on the best way to get rid of Marbury, and he turned down a pretty lame offer to get rid of Zach (who the Clippers really could use). I think he senses there is a better deal out there from the Clips or someone else. Let's put our cards on the table. Post who you would trade and for what value. Post who we should have drafted and project your top 7 draftees in order of value as NBA players. Lastly, post what you expect out of Gallinari and what he has to do to be accepted as a good #6 pick. I'll start.

Marbury....Anything better than a buy out is OK by me
Randolph...Shorter contracts and a young player with potential and/or picks

I liked the top 2, obviously, and then Mayo. I am fine with Galinari. I think the kids has skills and he has a huge HEART, IQ, and onions. It will start to show later this season and next. He need to show the potential to be a 15/7/4 guy who makes the TEAM better.

1) Beasley
2) Mayo
3) Love
4) Rose
5) Westbrooke
6) Gallinari
7) Augustin


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

I was kind of confused about why Walsh initially turned down the deal. I stopped and thought about it and realized that maybe this was the right decision. 

IMO, one bad trade does not deserve another. As much as the Blazers got lowballed in exchange for Randolph, it does not mean we should move him for a package of similar value. This guy is still a 20 and 10 big man that has a few flaws. Flaws can be fixed at his age and if not fixed, masked within a team concept. On the Pistons, I think he makes them a title contender. On the Spurs, I think he reenergizes their contender status because both teams provide him with the system, team defense, veteran leadership and experienced play necessary to be considered that.

In short, I think we should deal from a position of strength rather than weakness. As much as Randolph might not be a fit with this team, organizations already know what he is capable of on the floor as a result of his time with the Blazers. Because of that, I have changed my mind and think that his trade value can not change significantly enough to try and trade him immediately. I think we should keep him as long as we have to until we get a deal with assets we could use. If he stays the season with us, then so be it. Next year, his trade value will shoot up by virtue of his contract having one less year on it. He still is not a long term solution IMO, but we could get a nice draft pick next year by forcing the issue with him and Curry.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: This place is insane..*



alphaorange said:


> Everybody is in full "*****" mode. I can't see where Walsh has made a definite mis-step yet. He got rid of IT. He drafted a guy that nobody knows how good he will be, yet they assail the crap out of it because he either didn't draft "their" guy or make a move they don't even know could have been made to draft "their" guy....who btw, hasn't played in an NBA game yet, either. He got a young, solid, ball distributing, and defensive minded PG who will at least end up being a good back up in future years. He over paid for the right to get a 2 year deal (cap space in 2010). He is working on the best way to get rid of Marbury, and he turned down a pretty lame offer to get rid of Zach (who the Clippers really could use). I think he senses there is a better deal out there from the Clips or someone else. Let's put our cards on the table. Post who you would trade and for what value. Post who we should have drafted and project your top 7 draftees in order of value as NBA players. Lastly, post what you expect out of Gallinari and what he has to do to be accepted as a good #6 pick. I'll start.
> 
> Marbury....Anything better than a buy out is OK by me
> Randolph...Shorter contracts and a young player with potential and/or picks
> ...


LOL, and who says we don't agree?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Kiyaman said:


> Walsh turn down the deal to trade Zach because he is an "Idiot", who hired an idiot offensive coach D'Antoni who cut defensive F/C-Randolph Morris from the Knicks Summer League Team to let Morris go to the Celtics Summer Bigman Training Camp who has become the Big Talk in the Celtics Camp as a great pickup.
> Now the Knicks frontcourt Players are looking weaker each day of the NBA trades, and FA signings.
> *The Knicks Frontcourt line C-James, C-Curry, PF-Zach, PF-Lee.*
> Zach is a 36 mpg liability to all his teammates on the court with him.
> ...


actually we now know gordon is whom walsh is holding out for(if you believe the articles on the subject) ...all the clips offered was a 2nd rnd. pick.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Tim Thomas and one or two 2nd rounders is a good deal for him. Tim Thomas is a proven good player for D'Antoni system (played for him in Phoenix).


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Zuca*

We don't need to take back any bad players....there doesn't need to be a salary match. Zach may not get us Gordon, but it is sure possible to get Jordan. Zach and another player may get us Gordon. I'm still not sold on Gordon as an undersized SG. I'd rather take a flyer on the guy that can turn into a center.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Randolph for DeAndre Jordan and a second round pick seems like a fair trade and it would go a long way towards helping the Knicks' future. Since Marbury is going off the books, the only bad contracts they have going into 2010 are those of Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries. Both of them could be dealt before then. Hell, this trade would save the Knicks approximately $30 million next year alone.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Randolph for DeAndre Jordan and a second round pick seems like a fair trade and it would go a long way towards helping the Knicks' future. Since Marbury is going off the books, the only bad contracts they have going into 2010 are those of Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries. Both of them could be dealt before then. Hell, this trade would save the Knicks approximately $30 million next year alone.


yea except salaries arent even close to matching


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

knickstorm said:


> yea except salaries arent even close to matching


The Clippers are below the cap so the salaries don't have to match.


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