# Is anybody else skeptical of Wiggins?



## Adam

I'm not going to say he's going to be a bust. He's a talented kid and he could turn into a star, but I don't think he will. I have questions about his athleticism and his body. I worry about a lack of offensive skills. I think he will be a good but not great player.


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## 29380

A lot of people are.

I'm not the work ethic, motor(which is higher than it gets credit for), and talent level are too high.


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## hobojoe

I'd be shocked if he's anything worse than a perennial all-star in his prime. Whether or not he's a transcendent superstar remains to be seen, but I like just about everything about him. Tools are there, he's a good shooter with the potential to be a great shooter because mechanically his shot is very sound. Great, explosive first step. Motor is very good. High character kid. Takes pride in his defensive and is very good on that end. With Embiid a huge injury risk, I don't think there's any good reason to pass on Wiggins in this draft. I wouldn't even be considering Parker over him if I'm Cleveland or anyone else who may want to trade for the top pick.


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## E.H. Munro

hobojoe said:


> I'd be shocked if he's anything worse than a perennial all-star in his prime. Whether or not he's a transcendent superstar remains to be seen, but I like just about everything about him. Tools are there, he's a good shooter with the potential to be a great shooter because mechanically his shot is very sound. Great, explosive first step. Motor is very good. High character kid. Takes pride in his defensive and is very good on that end. With Embiid a huge injury risk, I don't think there's any good reason to pass on Wiggins in this draft. I wouldn't even be considering Parker over him if I'm Cleveland or anyone else who may want to trade for the top pick.


Yeah, I think Wiggins is fairly comparable to Paul George in upside, and that's a guy that you can build a team around with sufficient offensive support.


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## R-Star

Not me. I think he'll be a top 10 player in this league.


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## PauloCatarino

In all honesty, for me Wiggins is the clear cut number one player in this draft.
No ifs or buts about it.


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## Marcus13

A little bit. He still reminds me of an extremely impressive high school player - he never really made much of a leap at the college level. There were many, many games where if you didn't know better you wouldn't be able to point him out as the best player on the court. He has the ability to put it all together but it's really just going to come down to putting the work in.

Parker just seems to have Paul Pierce written all over him. Wiggins could end up much better or much worse than that.


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## e-monk

I too am skeptical. In fact I doubt he even exists.


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## HKF

Wiggins played last season not to get hurt. He re-classified to get drafted earlier, watched Embiid get injured and said screw it, can't mess up the NBA future. He will be a much different player in the NBA, I am pretty sure of it.


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## BlakeJesus

Adam said:


> I'm not going to say he's going to be a bust. He's a talented kid and he could turn into a star, but I don't think he will. I have questions about his athleticism and his body. I worry about a lack of offensive skills. I think he will be a good but not great player.


Compare him to somebody, what is good but not great in this case?

Only one of your worries to me really seems legitimate. By all accounts Wiggins has very good athleticism, and what do you mean by his body? He's consistently measured out at 6'7"+ in shoes at camps, and his wingspan has been consistent as well 6'11"+. He's a bit scrawny for sure, but he's also 19 years old.

I get what you're saying offensively, there are some questions there. But at the same time, he's shown he can get to the line, and though his shot isn't great it's not broken either. 34% on 3.6 attempts per game last year is more or less average, but again, not broken.

As you can tell, I am in the camp that is not skeptical. If the question is, are we skeptical of him ever being a Top 10 player in the league, than I would agree there's a solid chance that doesn't happen. But skeptical of him being considered a high quality player? Not at all.


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## Diable

The question seems to be whether or not he really wants to be great. The lack of assertiveness is the one thing that is obviously worrisome


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## ATLien

I am skeptical of him being a top ten player in the NBA, but I'd still draft him number one. This draft just doesn't look as great as y'all thought it was.


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> I am skeptical of him being a top ten player in the NBA, but I'd still draft him number one. This draft just doesn't look as great as y'all thought it was.


I think its still an amazing draft. 

Every year people shit talk a draft when there isn't another Lebron in it. There isn't going to be another Lebron type player in the draft who's hyped as a generational talent anytime soon. 

To me if Wiggins reaches his absolute peak, hes a guy you're arguing for the best player in the game. Do I think he'll reach that? Who knows. I do however think he'll be able to crack top 5/top 10 lists like P-Gangster is doing right now. 

Peak - Arguably best player in the league in his prime (Lebron is old as shit by then)
Middle - DeMar Derozan
Floor - Darius Miles


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## ATLien

R-Star said:


> I think its still an amazing draft.
> 
> Every year people shit talk a draft when there isn't another Lebron in it. There isn't going to be another Lebron type player in the draft who's hyped as a generational talent anytime soon.
> 
> To me if Wiggins reaches his absolute peak, hes a guy you're arguing for the best player in the game. Do I think he'll reach that? Who knows. I do however think he'll be able to crack top 5/top 10 lists like P-Gangster is doing right now.
> 
> Peak - Arguably best player in the league in his prime (Lebron is old as shit by then)
> Middle - DeMar Derozan
> Floor - Darius Miles


This isn't about that. This is me trolling the supposed NBA draft experts who acted like there were going to be 5-6 franchise players in this year's class. Of course, nobody will admit they are wrong on this site like usual..


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## Luke

On what planet is Paul George a top five player?


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> On what planet is Paul George a top five player?


Every single persons planet for the first half of last season?

Uhhh, probably you're planet where you called the Pacers a favorite to win it all a few months back?

:laugh:

"Buuutt, Bill Simmons says......" shut the **** up Luke.


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> This isn't about that. This is me trolling the supposed NBA draft experts who acted like there were going to be 5-6 franchise players in this year's class. Of course, nobody will admit they are wrong on this site like usual..


Thank you for calling them out.

I agree, not one person will admit to saying that, which blows my mind as _everything is written down_. 

Its always fun to go back and quote a guy who refuses to admit to shamelessly changing his opinion. I just did it with Luke and it felt glorious. 

More often than not its tedious and not worth the effort though because they'll continue to say you're just twisting their words. "I said this draft *COULD* have 5-6 franchise players! Not that it *WILL* have 5-6 franchise players!


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Every single persons planet for the first half of last season?
> 
> Uhhh, probably you're planet where you called the Pacers a favorite to win it all a few months back?
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> "Buuutt, Bill Simmons says......" shut the **** up Luke.


Kick and scream all you want little guy, that's not going to change the fact that in no way, shape, or form Paul George is a top five player. There are five forwards I would take ahead of him, let alone five players overall.


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## E.H. Munro

ATLien said:


> This isn't about that. This is me trolling the supposed NBA draft experts who acted like there were going to be 5-6 franchise players in this year's class. Of course, nobody will admit they are wrong on this site like usual..


I think what us actual experts were saying at the year's start was that there were several guys that you'd be happy with drafting at #1 in any given year, which is still true today. I mean are talking about guys who'd be in the mix as a top 3 pick in a normal year (such as Marcus Smart or Julius Randle) as disappointments if their favourite team picked them mid lottery. When you can walk out of a draft with a guy that figures as a good NBA starter with a late lottery pick you're looking at a good draft.


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## ATLien

E.H. Munro said:


> When you can walk out of a draft with a guy that figures as a good NBA starter with a late lottery pick you're looking at a good draft.


You know, that is really setting the bar pretty low. We were told that the bottom half of the league would enter tankapalooza for this special draft class that had star power. I agree that it looks like a good draft, but if Orlando can trade Arron Affalo for a mid-lottery pick then I call bullshit.


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## Sir Patchwork

It's hard to know how good this draft is until they step on the court. It definitely seems like a pretty high quality draft though. Wiggins and Parker both appear to be perennial all-star type players. Embiid will be a perennial all-star as well if he can stay healthy without the surgeries affecting his athletic ability. There are others who are talented, but some hit and some miss. There will be other stars in this draft besides the first three.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Kick and scream all you want little guy, that's not going to change the fact that in no way, shape, or form Paul George is a top five player. There are five forwards I would take ahead of him, let alone five players overall.


Cool. And as I said, he was clearly considered a top 5 for half the season. Your willy nilly, change every time you refresh ESPN homepage opinion doesn't change facts Luke.


You seem to be going pretty hard on "little guy". That's cute, squirt.


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## HKF

Hey, I was on record for saying this draft was overrated. All you had to do was watch college basketball this year to see it. Year of the freshmen and yet none of them looked like world beaters. 

People got mad at Danny Ainge and Jim Boeheim for saying it. There is no Lebron, Durant or Duncan in this draft so the question remains was it really worth half the Eastern Conference tanking for it? I don't think so.


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## E.H. Munro

ATLien said:


> You know, that is really setting the bar pretty low.


Is it? How many perennial all stars get drafted outside the top five? How many of the guys drafted 7-12 ever turn out to be top 20 guys? After the top third of the lottery you're praying the guy you draft is an NBA starter, _every year_. Only this year those teams are looking at guys with considerably higher upside.

EDIT: For example, we can all agree that the 2003 draft was the best of the 21st century. Now go take a look at the list of guys drafted from 6-14 and you'll see what I'm talking about. And that's not an aberration, that's just the way things are. You can't draft an all-star at #8 every year (for one thing it would mean that the all star team was undergoing 100% turnover every four years).



ATLien said:


> We were told that the bottom half of the league would enter tankapalooza for this special draft class that had star power. I agree that it looks like a good draft, but if Orlando can trade Arron Affalo for a mid-lottery pick then I call bullshit.


The only reports I've seen about Afflalo are that the Magic are looking to bundle him with their two lottery picks to move up three spots in the draft. Which of Utah, Boston, LA, Sacramento, Charlotte or Philly are willing to give up their pick for him with zero other considerations? As for the rest of it, Philly was shameless about tanking the season to the extent that they were giving away legit NBA players for free to keep themselves from winning games. But aside from that there wasn't a whole lot. Milwaukee and Cleveland tried their hardest to make the postseason.


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## ATLien

Sacramento wouldn't surprise me, but who knows.


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## bball2223

I definitely bought into the hype at times, but this is a good draft receiving more hype than it deserves because of the awful draft that came before it.


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## bball2223

As for Wiggins: 

His lack of aggressiveness scares me, but overall I'm a pretty big fan of his game. As his jump shot improves, and his handle tightens up, he is going to be really damn good.


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## BobStackhouse42

bball2223 said:


> I definitely bought into the hype at times, but this is a good draft receiving more hype than it deserves because of the awful draft that came before it.


Don't hate! This draft is really deep.


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## E.H. Munro

ATLien said:


> Sacramento wouldn't surprise me, but who knows.


Wait, so you're saying that the draft sucks because the Magic can trade Afflalo for a mid lottery pick even though you have zero reports about this mythical deal occurring? Well, I guess I can't argue with that...


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## ATLien

hmmm



E.H. Munro said:


> One? There are 5-6 guys in that class that are legitimate #1 talent. Absent a terrorist attack at the McDonald's All Star game there's no way Andy Harrison goes #1, yet I have him rated more highly than I did John Wall at the same point. Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, Aaron Gordon, tell a GM drafting #1 that he's drafting them and they'll be shouting the Takbir more loudly than a mullah.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Cool. And as I said, he was clearly considered a top 5 for half the season. Your willy nilly, change every time you refresh ESPN homepage opinion doesn't change facts Luke.
> 
> 
> You seem to be going pretty hard on "little guy". That's cute, squirt.


Paul George played top five ball for two months this past season, no doubt he was at least in the conversation at that juncture. With the benefit of hindsight I would say that he is currently the sixth best forward in the league, but he still has room to grow. Y'all are lucky to have him. Jabroni.


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## bball2223

BobStackhouse42 said:


> Don't hate! This draft is really deep.


No hate at all. This isn't a draft on-par with '03 and '96 like many thought before the start of the college season, but it's still a pretty good draft.


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## E.H. Munro

ATLien said:


> hmmm


Most guys that go #1 aren't 30 PER players. If your standard for a #1 is LeBron there might be a handful of non-busts in NBA history. My standard is the sort of guys you normally find at the spot, and when I look at the history I see a lot of guys like Elton Brand and John Wall. And there are 3-4 of those guys available in this draft. (And Aaron Gordon is _really_ good, whoever gets him is going to be thrilled to death with what they got in the middle of the lottery.)


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Paul George played top five ball for two months this past season, no doubt he was at least in the conversation at that juncture. With the benefit of hindsight I would say that he is currently the sixth best forward in the league, but he still has room to grow. Y'all are lucky to have him. Jabroni.


So you're saying yet again you made a stupid comment.

Oh ok, thanks.


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## E.H. Munro

ATLien said:


> I agree that it looks like a good draft, but if Orlando can trade Arron Affalo for a mid-lottery pick then I call bullshit.


Since he was actually dealt for Evan Fournier and a low second round pick can we call this the greatest draft in professional sports history? (That's a _reductio ad absurdum_, so please don't try to posit that as a serious observation.)


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> So you're saying yet again you made a stupid comment.
> 
> Oh ok, thanks.


That is not what I am saying.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> That is not what I am saying.


Did you make any posts in the MVP thread about how Paul George was up there with Lebron and KD for top 3 consideration?

Did you then in this thread flip out when I said Wiggins could be a top 5/top 10 type of player like George?


When are you just going to learn to shut the **** up Luke?


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Did you make any posts in the MVP thread about how Paul George was up there with Lebron and KD for top 3 consideration?
> 
> Did you then in this thread flip out when I said Wiggins could be a top 5/top 10 type of player like George?
> 
> 
> When are you just going to learn to shut the **** up Luke?


Paul George has played superstar basketball for exactly two months of his career. Outside of that two month window he's played roughly fringe all star level ball. He is not a top five player by any objective measure. However, he is young and he is already very good.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Paul George has played superstar basketball for exactly two months of his career. Outside of that two month window he's played roughly fringe all star level ball. He is not a top five player by any objective measure. However, he is young and he is already very good.


Fringe allstar..... wow, you just keep getting worse and worse.

And I'm sorry, but you didn't answer my question. Did you make a post in this years MVP thread indicating Paul George was top 3, and had a shot at MVP this year?


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Fringe allstar..... wow, you just keep getting worse and worse.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but you didn't answer my question. Did you make a post in this years MVP thread indicating Paul George was top 3, and had a shot at MVP this year?


I don't recall ever saying that he had a real shot at actually winning. I'll reiterate for the third time, however, he was certainly in the conversation for the first two months of the season.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> I don't recall ever saying that he had a real shot at actually winning. I'll reiterate for the third time, however, he was certainly in the conversation for the first two months of the season.


No, there's no need to reiterate anything. I read it the first time.

The fact you think someone can be in talks for MVP for part of a season, and then laughable as a top 5 player later on that season is absolutely mind blowing.

Its honestly as though you have deep seated mental issues. Like not that you're crazy or anything. Just that you're extremely slow and don't pick up on common practices like a normal person would. 

"Paul George is an MVP candidate!"
"The Pacers are a top two favorite to win it all this year!"
"The Pacers arguably wouldn't make the playoffs out West!"
"Its laughable to call Paul George a top 5 player!"

Your timeline for Pacer related discussion this year. Good work Luke.


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## R-Star

Here's a direct quote, by the way.



Luke said:


> It's weird to say that PG deserves it because he's the third best player at his position, but he kind of does at this point. Indiana is 8-0 and they look phenomenal. Obviously I expect the Heat to get back on track, and the Thunder will look much better now that Westbrook is back, but George has made substantial strides in his game.


Again, why you people think you can just say "Me? Nah, I didn't say that...." It's a ****ing website. You write shit down and it stays there. How hard of a concept is that to grasp?

You also made a top 5 list later in the thread putting George at 4, then went on to argue how hes better than Griffin and LMA, so I'd be curious for you to write that list of top 5 forwards you were talking about who are all ahead of PG.

I mean, why bother though? Who ****ing cares what kind of list you write? You're just going to completely change it a month from now and shamelessly act like its been your opinion the whole time.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Here's a direct quote, by the way.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, why you people think you can just say "Me? Nah, I didn't say that...." It's a ****ing website. You write shit down and it stays there. How hard of a concept is that to grasp?
> 
> You also made a top 5 list later in the thread putting George at 4, then went on to argue how hes better than Griffin and LMA, so I'd be curious for you to write that list of top 5 forwards you were talking about who are all ahead of PG.
> 
> I mean, why bother though? Who ****ing cares what kind of list you write? You're just going to completely change it a month from now and shamelessly act like its been your opinion the whole time.


Dude, how many times do I have to ****ing explain this to you? Paul George played like an MVP candidate for two months, and the pacers played like an elite team for two months. Both of them regressed throughout the season, and what a player/team does in may is a hell of a lot more relevant than what they do in November. Obviously opinions are bound to change when presented with new data, I clearly misevaluated and overrated both Paul George and Indiana as a team. I've said that several times. It's like talking to a ****ing four year old.

LeBron, Durant, Blake, Lamarcus, and Love are all better than him. Anthony Davis will almost certainly join the other five this upcoming season.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Dude, how many times do I have to ****ing explain this to you? Paul George played like an MVP candidate for two months, and the pacers played like an elite team for two months. Both of them regressed throughout the season, and what a player/team does in may is a hell of a lot more relevant than what they do in November. Obviously opinions are bound to change when presented with new data, I clearly misevaluated and overrated both Paul George and Indiana as a team. I've said that several times. It's like talking to a ****ing four year old.
> 
> LeBron, Durant, Blake, Lamarcus, and Love are all better than him. Anthony Davis will almost certainly join the other five this upcoming season.


But you said Paul was clearly over Lamarcus and Blake in another thread, and those were your top 5 without even mentioning Love, so...... again, you're just flopping around and talking out of your ass.

And that wasn't during the first 2 months when you posted that, it was mid season.

What is your response to that, Luke? More rambling and nonsense?


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## R-Star

Just go and admit your view changes to whatever popular opinion is, and that you have absolutely know knowledge of the game of basketball, and then leave the thread.


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## Mrs. Thang

I'm not skeptical of Wiggins being a good player and a highlight machine, but watching all the scouting videos and looking at the measurements and everything can make you forget what he actually looks like during a basketball game.

I would take Parker over him because he's bigger, more skilled, and looked like a flat out better basketball player from the first time they stepped on the court last year until the end of the season.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> But you said Paul was clearly over Lamarcus and Blake in another thread, and those were your top 5 without even mentioning Love, so...... again, you're just flopping around and talking out of your ass.
> 
> And that wasn't during the first 2 months when you posted that, it was mid season.
> 
> What is your response to that, Luke? More rambling and nonsense?


That post was 8 games into the season. There are 82 games in the regular season.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> That post was 8 games into the season. There are 82 games in the regular season.


Uh, no. That's one comment. You want me to bring in your other quotes from that thread?

Can you not ****ing read by the way? I specifically said in the post you quoted 

"And that wasn't during the first 2 months when you posted that, it was mid season."


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Uh, no. That's one comment. You want me to bring in your other quotes from that thread?
> 
> Can you not ****ing read by the way? I specifically said in the post you quoted
> 
> "And that wasn't during the first 2 months when you posted that, it was mid season."


Show me a post where I say that Paul George is a top five candidate 40+ games into the season.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Show me a post where I say that Paul George is a top five candidate 40+ games into the season.


Who said 40+ games into the season? You're just making your own crazy qualifications for what passes as a relevant prediction now? If it was under 40 games, you're in the clear, if its over, I'm right?

Honestly buddy, just ****ing walk away, you're such a ****ing meat head.

And yes, around 40 games into the season you were saying Paul George is better than both Blake Griffin and LMA. That's your own post. So..... what are you even ****ing talking about. 

**** me. What a tool.


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## OneBadLT123

For ****s sake R Star get over it. Jeasus

Paul George is NOT a top 5 player. He not even better than Harden this year.
Yeah I said that

Eat it


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## c_dog

i think hunger is underrated. and that is the biggest question mark around him. his track record shows he's been disappearing in big games.

kwahi leonard has some physical gifts but his desire to be the best earned him a finals mvp in just his third season. it's what separates the cream of the crop.


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## R-Star

OneBadLT123 said:


> For ****s sake R Star get over it. Jeasus
> 
> Paul George is NOT a top 5 player. He not even better than Harden this year.
> Yeah I said that
> 
> Eat it


Hes not better than James Harden? Are you out of your mind?

And I'm not arguing George as top 5 right now. I'm saying hes a top 5 to 10 player. But that's not the issue. The issue is me taking Luke to task for coming out and saying Paul George was MVP at one point, to saying he was top 5 mid season, to now saying the idea of it is laughable. 

I'm not here to argue how good a player Paul George is. I'm here to shit all over a guy who consistently changes his opinion, but words his posts as if hes some sort of respected basketball mind.

If you drastically change your opinion to follow whoever's winning and the flavor of the week, you're a ****ing idiot. Luke, is a ****ing idiot.


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> Hes not better than James Harden? Are you out of your mind?
> 
> And I'm not arguing George as top 5 right now. I'm saying hes a top 5 to 10 player. But that's not the issue. The issue is me taking Luke to task for coming out and saying Paul George was MVP at one point, to saying he was top 5 mid season, to now saying the idea of it is laughable.
> 
> I'm not here to argue how good a player Paul George is. I'm here to shit all over a guy who consistently changes his opinion, but words his posts as if hes some sort of respected basketball mind.
> 
> If you drastically change your opinion to follow whoever's winning and the flavor of the week, you're a ****ing idiot. Luke, is a ****ing idiot.


Wasn't Chris Paul part of Luke's top 5 recently? Now he's out?


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Who said 40+ games into the season? You're just making your own crazy qualifications for what passes as a relevant prediction now? If it was under 40 games, you're in the clear, if its over, I'm right?
> 
> Honestly buddy, just ****ing walk away, you're such a ****ing meat head.
> 
> And yes, around 40 games into the season you were saying Paul George is better than both Blake Griffin and LMA. That's your own post. So..... what are you even ****ing talking about.
> 
> **** me. What a tool.


You said mid season. There are 82 games in the nba regular season. 40 is roughly in the middle of that.

Blake griffin and Lamarcus are both better than Paul George.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> You said mid season. There are 82 games in the nba regular season. 40 is roughly in the middle of that.
> 
> *Blake griffin and Lamarcus are both better than Paul George.*


Then why did you word for word say they weren't mid season in the MVP thread?


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> Wasn't Chris Paul part of Luke's top 5 recently? Now he's out?


Undoubtedly. But if you bring that up he'll just talk in circles.

I've been trying to explain to Luke how someones opinion on basketball is pretty much useless if they change in twice a day, but we've gone over the same talking points for pages now. I'm starting to think maybe I'm the idiot for spending so much time on this.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Then why did you word for word say they weren't mid season in the MVP thread?


They continued to get better as the season went on, George did not.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> They continued to get better as the season went on, George did not.


:laugh:

I'm not even agreeing or disagreeing. I just have to sit back and laugh at how adamant you are when posting your opinions, which is absolutely ludicrous since you admittedly change your opinion on a daily basis.

I hope someone like Thabeet goes 40 and 20 in the first game next season and you proclaim him the best player on the planet. That's how it works, right?


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> :laugh:
> 
> I'm not even agreeing or disagreeing. I just have to sit back and laugh at how adamant you are when posting your opinions, which is absolutely ludicrous since you admittedly change your opinion on a daily basis.
> 
> I hope someone like Thabeet goes 40 and 20 in the first game next season and you proclaim him the best player on the planet. That's how it works, right?


I have not admitted to changing my opinion on a daily basis. Reading comprehension is key.


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## Jamel Irief

Luke said:


> I have not admitted to changing my opinion on a daily basis. Reading comprehension is key.



The thing is teams and players going on hot and cold streaks is common. The key is not making adamant statements based on a hot or cold streak. Instead of saying "Paul George is a top 5 player!" if you're just going off 30 games. Instead try saying "Paul George is playing like a top 5 player!"

Simple.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> I have not admitted to changing my opinion on a daily basis. Reading comprehension is key.


You literally made a list of the top 5 players in the league and it included Paul George at mid season.


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## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> The thing is teams and players going on hot and cold streaks is common. The key is not making adamant statements based on a hot or cold streak. Instead of saying "Paul George is a top 5 player!" if you're just going off 30 games. Instead try saying "Paul George is playing like a top 5 player!"
> 
> Simple.


No, Luke says mentioning top 5 and Paul George is laughable...... even though he made his own list with George in it.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> You literally made a list of the top 5 players in the league and it included Paul George at mid season.


I have never called Paul George a top five player.


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## Luke

Jamel Irief said:


> The thing is teams and players going on hot and cold streaks is common. The key is not making adamant statements based on a hot or cold streak. Instead of saying "Paul George is a top 5 player!" if you're just going off 30 games. Instead try saying "Paul George is playing like a top 5 player!"
> 
> Simple.


I agree.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> I have never called Paul George a top five player.


You specifically listed a top 5 in the MVP thread putting Lebron, KD, George, Paul and someone else as your top 5. 

Would you like me to quote it?

Are we going to do some run around bullshit of "MVP doesn't mean....." jesus. I give up. You're just literally the worst man. I can stand if a guys dumb as shit like @Pablo5 or doctordrizzy or who have you, but you're a special kind of stupid where you refuse to even acknowledge when you're wrong.

I'll reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don't give a **** if you or I think Paul George is a top 5 player. The point of this is you change your opinion every 5 seconds and are consistently adamant that everyone should listen to you because "You've forgot more about basketball then" shut the **** up Luke. You're a terrible poster.

Without a doubt you personally make this site a worse place by posting.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> I agree.


Jamel is politely telling you you change your opinion far too often without giving a decent amount of time to let things play out. You understand that, correct?


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> You specifically listed a top 5 in the MVP thread putting Lebron, KD, George, Paul and someone else as your top 5.
> 
> Would you like me to quote it?
> 
> Are we going to do some run around bullshit of "MVP doesn't mean....." jesus. I give up. You're just literally the worst man. I can stand if a guys dumb as shit like @Pablo5 or doctordrizzy or who have you, but you're a special kind of stupid where you refuse to even acknowledge when you're wrong.
> 
> I'll reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don't give a **** if you or I think Paul George is a top 5 player. The point of this is you change your opinion every 5 seconds and are consistently adamant that everyone should listen to you because "You've forgot more about basketball then" shut the **** up Luke. You're a terrible poster.
> 
> Without a doubt you personally make this site a worse place by posting.


You get pretty animated on the internet don't ya?


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## Porn Player

Quote it or it never happened.


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## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> Quote it or it never happened.


Ok



Luke said:


> Top five at this point seems pretty clear to me, in no order - LeBron, Durant, Paul, George, and Aldridge.


From the MVP thread, mid season by Luke.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> You get pretty animated on the internet don't ya?


No, not really. I just like picking on mental deficient posters.


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## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> Ok
> 
> 
> 
> From the MVP thread, mid season by Luke.


I believed he had said it by the way, I just find it strange when people go back and forth with the 'threat' of posting the 'truth' in those posts, rather than just finding the original post and >>>


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## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> I believed he had said it by the way, I just find it strange when people go back and forth with the 'threat' of posting the 'truth' in those posts, rather than just finding the original post and >>>


Its like the 5th post I've pointed out of him flip flopping. There was no threat, I just pointed out he said it. It gets tiresome looking back for posts of the Lukes of the world all the time.


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## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> Its like the 5th post I've pointed out of him flip flopping. There was no threat, I just pointed out he said it. It gets tiresome looking back for posts of the Lukes of the world all the time.


You'll never really get tired of going after Luke, it's a large part of your life on BBF these days.


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## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> You'll never really get tired of going after Luke, it's a large part of your life on BBF these days.


Just when he shows up to say something completely contradictory to his previous posts.


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## e-monk

R-Star said:


> It gets tiresome looking back for posts of the Lukes of the world all the time.


I thought that's what Jamel is for


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## R-Star

e-monk said:


> I thought that's what Jamel is for


We occasionally swap jobs to keep things interesting around here.


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## Luke

Porn Player said:


> You'll never really get tired of going after Luke, it's a large part of your life on BBF these days.


I believe he is beginning to develop feelings for me.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Ok
> 
> 
> 
> From the MVP thread, mid season by Luke.


I don't think Lamarcus Aldridge is a top five player either.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> I don't think Lamarcus Aldridge is a top five player either.


So that isn't your list I quoted then?


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> So that isn't your list I quoted then?


Being a top five player and being a top five candidate for MVP is two different things entirely.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Being a top five player and being a top five candidate for MVP is two different things entirely.


Please, do elaborate on that. I'd love to hear it. 



P.S. I already called you pulling this about 10 posts ago. 



R-Star said:


> Are we going to do some run around bullshit of "MVP doesn't mean....."


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Please, do elaborate on that. I'd love to hear it.
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. I already called you pulling this about 10 posts ago.


Because the MVP isnt necessarily the best player in the league?


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Because the MVP isnt necessarily the best player in the league?


Alright Luke, we're done here. I accomplished what I set out to do.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Alright Luke, we're done here. I accomplished what I set out to do.


Throw a temper tantrum and not prove anything substantial?


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Throw a temper tantrum and not prove anything substantial?


Prove that any post of yours going forward holds 0 credibility.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Prove that any post of yours going forward holds 0 credibility.


Well that's not true.


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> Well that's not true.


Sure is.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> Sure is.


Nah


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## XxIrvingxX

R-Star said:


> Alright Luke, we're done here. I accomplished what I set out to do.


He's actually right you know. I mean isn't it widely agreed here that Derrick Rose won the MVP during a season when he clearly wasn't the best player in basketball at the time (and still isn't btw)?


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## Luke

I think Andrew Wiggins will be an all star caliber player in this league.


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## R-Star

XxIrvingxX said:


> He's actually right you know. I mean isn't it widely agreed here that Derrick Rose won the MVP during a season when he clearly wasn't the best player in basketball at the time (and still isn't btw)?


I'd reply to you explaining a list of top 5 MVP candidates at the very least ensures the players are in the conversation for top 5, which Luke called mentioning George in there as stupid. To any regular, normal, non deficient person, the top 5 MVP list is a list of the top 5 best players in the game. 

I could say all that, but I don't want to get into a discussion with you Irwin.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> I'd reply to you explaining a list of top 5 MVP candidates at the very least ensures the players are in the conversation for top 5, which Luke called mentioning George in there as stupid. To any regular, normal, non deficient person, the top 5 MVP list is a list of the top 5 best players in the game.
> 
> I could say all that, but I don't want to get into a discussion with you Irwin.


How come Derrick Rose wasn't arguably the best player in the world in 2011? Didn't Noah finish fifth this year?


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## XxIrvingxX

Luke said:


> How come Derrick Rose wasn't arguably the best player in the world in 2011? Didn't Noah finish fifth this year?


Wait is this a question you're giving to me or to R-Star?


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## R-Star

Luke said:


> How come Derrick Rose wasn't *arguably* the best player in the world in 2011? Didn't Noah finish fifth this year?


He was. Just as Durant is this year.

If we have learned anything from you over the past few days, its that you get a free pass after attaching the word arguably to a sentence.


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## Luke

R-Star said:


> He was. Just as Durant is this year.
> 
> If we have learned anything from you over the past few days, its that you get a free pass after attaching the word arguably to a sentence.


No he wasn't.


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## Floods

this thread


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## R-Star

Floods said:


> this thread


You ****ing idiots could have stepped in 3 pages ago and none of this would have happened.

A simple "Look, you posted that in the other thread, now you're saying the exact opposite. R-Star is right." would have sufficed. 

This is as much your fault as it is mine, floods.


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## XxIrvingxX

R-Star said:


> You ****ing idiots could have stepped in 3 pages ago and none of this would have happened.
> 
> A simple "*Look, you posted that in the other thread, now you're saying the exact opposite.* R-Star is right." would have sufficed.
> 
> This is as much your fault as it is mine, floods.


Actually, after going back and looking, just because I'm bored, that's not really the case. You're trying to make it sound like Luke had been saying what he said for the whole season, which he claims he did for the first two months. There's evidence of that. But if that's what you're trying to argue, and keep in mind he already admitted that he said it, then I don't really see why you're continuing on with this. It's like having a u mad bro moment like Cima and responding anyways despite being wrong.


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## R-Star

XxIrvingxX said:


> Actually, after going back and looking, just because I'm bored, that's not really the case. You're trying to make it sound like Luke had been saying what he said for the whole season, which he claims he did for the first two months. There's evidence of that. But if that's what you're trying to argue, and keep in mind he already admitted that he said it, then I don't really see why you're continuing on with this. It's like having a u mad bro moment like Cima and responding anyways despite being wrong.


Having to explain this to you is not surprising to me. 

If you'd like to actually read the posts, its clear I never once said it was his opinion all year. In fact, there's god knows how many times I specifically wrote the whole argument is about how often Luke drastically changes his opinion. "Paul George should be MVP" turned to "Paul George is top 5" now turned to "Its laughable to mention Paul George as a top 5 caliber player". 

Reading comprehension is key, little bro.


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## BobStackhouse42

I agree with @Luke. Top 5 players in the nba and top five mvp candidates are not close to the same thing. Joakim Noah and Goran Dragic were top 10 in the mvp race this year but neither is a top 20 player overall. Kobe and Rose were hurt. Westbrook and Wade missed time. Chris Paul missed a few games too many. The Spurs guys were all playing reduced minutes. Carmelo was playing on a crappy team. There could be several top 10 or 15 players who were not close to top 10 mvp guys for tons of reasons.


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