# Which team would want Dre?



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

While opinions on Andre are split in this forum, I'm not conviced Karl likes Dre as his point guard. So I'm asking the basic question of which other teams would want Dre as their starting PG? 

And please, lets discuss this first before tossing around trade ideas.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> And please, lets discuss this first before tossing around trade ideas.


 
hmmmm.... Dre to.... (insert team) for (insert package) :biggrin: 

Several Teams would have interest......... Indiana, Atlanta, New York, LA Lakers, Portland, Houston, Minnesota... and more


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

NY would take him...despite the fact they have 9 PG's on theri roster.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

Minnesota just signed Mike James...not sure they'd be able to afford Dre too.

Lakers could really use Dre, Nuggets should not trade him there...who could they get anyway???


I don't really know who could use Dre...


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> hmmmm.... Dre to.... (insert team) for (insert package) :biggrin:
> 
> Several Teams would have interest......... Indiana, Atlanta, New York, LA Lakers, Portland, Houston, Minnesota... and more


Pacers want to go faster so Dre doesn't fit
Hawks want a pass first PG so Dre doesn't fit
Knicks maybe, if they get rid of Marbury and Francis
Lakers maybe, but Dre doesn't have a good enough outside shot for a triangle PG
Portland maybe
Houston maybe
Minnesota no, not with Mike James


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> Pacers want to go faster so Dre doesn't fit
> Hawks want a pass first PG so Dre doesn't fit
> Knicks maybe, if they get rid of Marbury and Francis
> Lakers maybe, but Dre doesn't have a good enough outside shot for a triangle PG
> ...


With the Hawks... at this point they I think they just want a "good" PG. Same for a lot of teams around the league. There are many more on the list than I have mentioned. Regardless of your opinion of Miller, the Nuggets are very much a fast paced, run and gun team with him in the lineup.

Tinsley has missed some games so even teams like the Pacers would have interest in Miller. Something to keep in mind.... you are calling a PG that averaged 8 assists per game a shoot first player. There are going to be posters that will tell you Miller is a pass first player. To me Miller is in between a pass first and look for your shot first player.

He's durable and takes good care of the ball and is a legit PG that can average 8 assists per game. Miller is a "true" PG. And if he joined a team like the knicks for instance... why they have "a ton" of guards. Miller would be their only true PG.

Which means if we are going to trade Miller, somehow the front office has to replace him


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The Denver Nuggets.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Indiana Pacers (at least fans in Indiana Board :biggrin: )

You can obtain Tinsley and SJax for Dre and Hodge...


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> With the Hawks... at this point they I think they just want a "good" PG. Same for a lot of teams around the league. There are many more on the list than I have mentioned. Regardless of your opinion of Miller, the Nuggets are very much a fast paced, run and gun team with him in the lineup.
> 
> Tinsley has missed some games so even teams like the Pacers would have interest in Miller. Something to keep in mind.... you are calling a PG that averaged 8 assists per game a shoot first player. There are going to be posters that will tell you Miller is a pass first player. To me Miller is in between a pass first and look for your shot first player.
> 
> ...


The Nuggets are not a fast paced team with Dre in the lineup nor is he a true PG. Yes he can get assists, but so can Marbury. Dre likes to drive the ball and score.

Can anyone say they belive Melo got enough touches last season?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> The Nuggets are not a fast paced team with Dre in the lineup nor is he a true PG. Yes he can get assists, but so can Marbury. Dre likes to drive the ball and score.
> 
> Can anyone say they belive Melo got enough touches last season?


Melo needs to be put in a position to utilize his strengths so he can score the basketball. Some of that is issues with the roster. Partially solved with the addition of JR Smith.

Now if Dre was averaging 18 or 20 PPG and 6 or 7 assists like what a Marbury or other shoot first guy would do... youd have a valid point. Paul is 16.1 PPG scorer and 7.8 assist guy he is someone Id call a true PG, but not a pass first or shoot first guy. More of an inbetween guy. Both guys get others involved (to some degree), however in my book you can be a true PG as long as you arent a shoot first PG like say Marbury or Francis etc. 

Like I said before... Miller has trade value all over the league. Indiana included as Zuca pointed out.

Melo will do a lot better next year with these roster improvements (which hopefully arent complete yet). He just needs room to operate, and his field goal percentage will rise even if he doesnt get more "touches" which could mean he pour is 30 plus PPG.

Last year depsite our roster issues he averaged 48% from the field, add some floor spreaders, and maybe a PG change to a guard even more willing to defer and that could rise to close to 50%. And thats for a small forward. Keep in mind Nugget great Alex English shot just over 50% from the field for his career, and he took a lot less jumpers than Melo... and really didnt shoot much from the outside at all.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

cpawfan said:


> The Nuggets are not a fast paced team with Dre in the lineup nor is he a true PG. Yes he can get assists, but so can Marbury. Dre likes to drive the ball and score.
> 
> Can anyone say they belive Melo got enough touches last season?


Marbury has never averaged 10 assists in a season. Where Andre has.

Andre Miller's basketball nickname should be Mr. 82. Andre Miller has that kind of durability! Something Marbury hasn't shown through out his career.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Marbury has never averaged 10 assists in a season. Where Andre has.
> 
> Andre Miller's basketball nickname should be Mr. 82. Andre Miller has that kind of durability! Something Marbury hasn't shown through out his career.


Miller's best season was 10.9, followed by 8.2 then 8.0 with a career avereage of 7.5

Marbury's best season was 9.3 twice followed by 8.7 then 8.6 with a career average of 8.1

Resting your position on one season Miller had with the Cavs years ago isn't a good argument.

For durability, in 01-02 82 games, 02-03 81 games, 03-04 82 games & 04-05 82 games so he also had a durability streak


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

marbury would be a small upgrade over andre no doubt. but id only do that if it was straight up and we got a pick or two...haha wont happen


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

marbury = uke:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

cpawfan said:


> Miller's best season was 10.9, followed by 8.2 then 8.0 with a career avereage of 7.5
> 
> Marbury's best season was 9.3 twice followed by 8.7 then 8.6 with a career average of 8.1
> 
> ...


IMO Marbuy's numbers are going to start to drop. The assists will go in favor or average out near the same when all is said and done between both players.

One thing I will give to Marbury over Miller is his scoring ability. No Doubt about that, Marbury is very creative, and has a much better long range shot. 

Also the years you picked out for Marbury are obviosuly his most durable years. What about these seasons 96-97 67 games played, 99-00 74 games played, 00-01 67 games played, 05-06 60 games played.

If anything Marbury is a little more prone to miss games, and has less durability than that of Miller. To me that should hold some weight when considering who you want playing for your team. I remember last year everyone wanted to trade Andre Miller for Tinsley who is barely ever on the court due to injury.

Andre Miller has also never missed more than two games in any season. His low was 80 games played in 02-03 with the Clippers. He continues being a solid guy you can count on every game going into the 06-07 season.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Everyone is misunderstanding me. I certainly don't want Marbury as a PG as I don't like that type of pg. My original point is that Dre is closer to Marbury than a pass first pg.

The stats were presented to demonstrate the perceived differences in assists


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> Everyone is misunderstanding me. I certainly don't want Marbury as a PG as I don't like that type of pg. My original point is that Dre is closer to Marbury than a pass first pg.
> 
> The stats were presented to demonstrate the perceived differences in assists


of course, nobody wants marbury. i guess i just look at PGs a certain way. For instance let me use politics to compare.

Marbury (aka shoot first point guard) is on one end of the spectrum while pass first point guard (lets say Jason Kidd) is on the other end of the spectrum. Kinda like being a communist or capitalist (of course Marbury would be the communist :clap: ). Now if I was to put Dre in that spectrum.... he'd be a socialist.:biggrin:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> of course, nobody wants marbury. i guess i just look at PGs a certain way. For instance let me use politics to compare.
> 
> Marbury (aka shoot first point guard) is on one end of the spectrum while pass first point guard (lets say Jason Kidd) is on the other end of the spectrum. Kinda like being a communist or capitalist (of course Marbury would be the communist :clap: ). Now if I was to put Dre in that spectrum.... he'd be a socialist.:biggrin:


Excellent post!


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

23AJ said:


> *IMO* Marbuy's numbers are going to start to drop. The assists will go in favor or average out near the same when all is said and done between both players.


lol! good to know i guess...


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> of course, nobody wants marbury. i guess i just look at PGs a certain way. For instance let me use politics to compare.
> 
> Marbury (aka shoot first point guard) is on one end of the spectrum while pass first point guard (lets say Jason Kidd) is on the other end of the spectrum. Kinda like being a communist or capitalist (of course Marbury would be the communist :clap: ). Now if I was to put Dre in that spectrum.... he'd be a socialist.:biggrin:


LOL! agreed...


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## New Jazzy Nets (Jan 25, 2006)

Andre Miller would fit with the Cavs or Grizzlies IMO. I still think he is more of a pass first point guard then people give him credit for.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

cpawfan said:


> Pacers want to go faster so Dre doesn't fit
> *Hawks want a pass first PG so Dre doesn't fit*
> Knicks maybe, if they get rid of Marbury and Francis
> Lakers maybe, but Dre doesn't have a good enough outside shot for a triangle PG
> ...


Miller did average 8.2 assists last seaon which I believe was TOP 6 in the NBA...that has to qualify him for a "pass-first" guy that can score when needed.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

23AJ said:


> If anything Marbury is a little more prone to miss games, and has less durability than that of Miller. To me that should hold some weight when considering who you want playing for your team. I remember last year everyone wanted to trade Andre Miller for Tinsley who is barely ever on the court due to injury.
> 
> Andre Miller has also never missed more than two games in any season. His low was 80 games played in 02-03 with the Clippers. He continues being a solid guy you can count on every game going into the 06-07 season.


I think you can definitley pick out guys that have trouble with injuries. Like when Grant Hill played on that broken ankle in the '98 or '99 playoffs with Detroit, thus all the ankle problems with Orlando.

But to say Andre Miller is some kind of Ultimate Warrior because he doesn't miss games doesn't tell me much. I mean yeah Tinsley has injury problems and I don't want Denver to aquire him because that means Boykins would start like 40+ games until Denver re-signed Howard Eisley to run the point with Boink-Man. That would be horrific and a definite realistic outcome with Tin-Man on the roster.

But Miller is only as durable as a freak-injury will allow him to be. I mean has Marbury or Tinsley faked these injuries to stay on the bench? NO!

If Miller makes one of his drives to the hoop and comes down awkwardly and breaks a collar bone, leg, whatever then you can start a Thread titled: Miller is injury prone! He's actually just lucky not to have injured himself yet.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

New Jazzy Nets said:


> Andre Miller would fit with the Cavs or Grizzlies IMO. I still think he is more of a pass first point guard then people give him credit for.


Yeah Miller would definitely be a younger and better Eric Snow with the Cavs.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Timmons said:


> Miller did average 8.2 assists last seaon which I believe was TOP 6 in the NBA...that has to qualify him for a "pass-first" guy that can score when needed.


That was why I brought up Marbury. Marbury has had better APG seasons than 8.2 and he is far from pass first


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

well this has turned into an interesting conversation. Nbanoitalls statistical method to determine if a PG is communist, socialist or free market capitalist.

Comparison. Marbury(2004-2005 for his sake), Andre Miller (05-06), Nash (05-06), Brevin Knight (05-06)

The best way to do is is to divide shot attempts per assist.

Marbury scored 21.7 PPG had 8.1 (668 total assists) assists and shot 1308 times

Miller scored 13.7 PPG and had 8.2 (673 total assists) assists and shot 872 times

Nash scored 18.8 PPG and had 10.5 assists (826 total assists)and shot 1056 times

Knight scored 12.6 PPG and had 8.8 assists (610 total assists) and shot 772 times

Marbury 1308/668= 1.95 
Miller 872/673= 1.30
Nash 1056/826= 1.28
Knight 772/610= 1.27


interestingly enough Boris Diaw scores a 1.02

so id say a 1.0 scale ranks as pass first and as the number rises you become more shoot first.... 1.95 is completely on the opposite end of the spectrum... for instance billups scores a 1.45.

i really like this..... so patent pending.... im going to be rich *****!


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> well this has turned into an interesting conversation. Nbanoitalls statistical method to determine if a PG is communist, socialist or free market capitalist.
> 
> Comparison. Marbury(2004-2005 for his sake), Andre Miller (05-06), Nash (05-06), Brevin Knight (05-06)
> 
> ...


This is some ESPN.com stuff...I LOVE IT!! :clap: :clap:


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

nbaNOITALL you should do this for every starting PG in the league!!!


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

jamaal Tinsley his rookie year... before the injuries and slow death of his mother......

was a 1.17

alston 1.73
arenas 3.45
banks 2.12
bibby 3.11
boykins 2.87
cassell 2.26
claxton 2.17
davis 1.79
felton 1.97
francis 2.09 prv yr. 2.43
harris 2.28
hinrich 2.09
james 2.66
nelson 2.38
pual 1.55
ridnour 1.45
mo williams 2.73
earl watson 1.76
tj ford 1.67

marbury this year was a 2.02


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

I'm not among those Nuggets fans who're in a crazy hurry to unload Miller. Not that I think there aren't better PGs in the league who'd be a better fit with Anthony, et al., but because I think it's pretty unlikely we'd end up with any of them. If we start trading away Miller to upgrade various other parts of the roster, we end up with a bigger problem than we started with in the form of a big downgrade at the point. Anthony is a great scorer, but he's not one of those wings who excel at creating their own shot. 

This notion of a pure, pass-first point guard is a compelling one, but how many of them are there in the league right now? In fact, they've been a rarity in most eras of the NBA. Maybe we could find a way to snag Brevin Knight, who's more likely to look for the pass first, second and third...but he's not enough of an offensive threat to help keep defenses from sagging around Anthony. And who else is there who'd be a serious prospect for the Nuggets?

But...to answer the question the thread started with, I think Houston would jump at the chance to get Miller. He's much more stable than Alston, would be a solid third option on offense, and is enough of a playmaker to remember to feed Yao the ball more often than not.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

guess im going to give Dre his due credit... again with me its more of a tempo issue, but based on shot attempts against assists, nobody can call dre a chucker anymore


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> guess im going to give Dre his due credit... again with me its more of a tempo issue, but based on shot attempts against assists, *nobody can call dre a chucker anymore*


I also think Dre's a great PG, but I just don't like his style with the team either. I'm definitely not saying that Denver needs to go out and trade Miller right away for say Danny Fortson, but Miller is a great bargaining piece for the Nugs who are looking to make changes. 

Miller is not an untouchable player and everyone who knows the Nuggets knows that, but he's also not just a throw away guy. It would have to take the right deal to get Miller because trading him would kill the Nuggets if the right move were not made.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Timmons said:


> I also think Dre's a great PG, but I just don't like his style with the team either. I'm definitely not saying that Denver needs to go out and trade Miller right away for say Danny Fortson, but Miller is a great bargaining piece for the Nugs who are looking to make changes.
> 
> Miller is not an untouchable player and everyone who knows the Nuggets knows that, but he's also not just a throw away guy. It would have to take the right deal to get Miller because trading him would kill the Nuggets if the right move were not made.


bingo


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Timmons said:


> Miller is not an untouchable player and everyone who knows the Nuggets knows that, but he's also not just a throw away guy. It would have to take the right deal to get Miller because trading him would kill the Nuggets if the right move were not made.


Word of truth.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Timmons said:


> I also think Dre's a great PG, but I just don't like his style with the team either. I'm definitely not saying that Denver needs to go out and trade Miller right away for say Danny Fortson, but Miller is a great bargaining piece for the Nugs who are looking to make changes.
> 
> Miller is not an untouchable player and everyone who knows the Nuggets knows that, but he's also not just a throw away guy. It would have to take the right deal to get Miller because trading him would kill the Nuggets if the right move were not made.


I'm in agreeance with this post like everyone else. 

However what's the right deal. I'm sure that's where everyone has a different picture in their head.

For example I don't want the Nuggets to trade Miller for a PG such as Mike Bibby, Tinsley, Steve Francis, and Brevin Knight.

However I would be open to a trade for guy's like Allen Iverson, Billups, Livingston, and maybe a guy like Crawford, but that's a big maybe.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

Timmons said:


> I also think Dre's a great PG, but I just don't like his style with the team either. I'm definitely not saying that Denver needs to go out and trade Miller right away for say Danny Fortson, but Miller is a great bargaining piece for the Nugs who are looking to make changes.
> 
> Miller is not an untouchable player and everyone who knows the Nuggets knows that, but he's also not just a throw away guy. It would have to take the right deal to get Miller because trading him would kill the Nuggets if the right move were not made.


exactly. dre is a great player, just doesnt fit our team...


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

i would have LOVED earl watson as our starting PG. what a stupid trade that was...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

yup. trading for tinsley is a high risk thing, but also a high reward is possible.

Ideally if you move Dre and Hodge for Tinsley and Stephen Jackson you have to have a plan in place to score another point guard. thats the kicker.

great thing is we have kmart to send to other teams in a package


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## ohiostfbfan (Jul 1, 2006)

drew gooden and damon jones 
FOR
andre miller and reggie evens


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

ohiostfbfan said:


> drew gooden and damon jones
> FOR
> andre miller and reggie evens


Gooden isn't that good!

Miller is so so much better than Damon Jones it isn't even funny.

However I could see how this trade would help the Cavs a lot. Good trade for the Cavs, bad trade for the Nuggets.


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## ohiostfbfan (Jul 1, 2006)

hes better than nene


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

ohiostfbfan said:


> hes better than nene


There both very close actually, but Nene has more size, and is a better defender, and in time has the potential to be one of the best big men in the game. I can't say the same for Gooden.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

ohiostfbfan said:


> hes better than nene


At what?

Gooden has a larger entourage and has pissed off more NBA front offices. Nene can't compete with that


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

23AJ said:


> I'm in agreeance with this post like everyone else.
> 
> However what's the right deal. I'm sure that's where everyone has a different picture in their head.
> 
> ...


I agree about Tinsley (too injury-prone), Francis (so far seems to flourish only as the first option on offense), and Knight (not enough of a scorer or shooter to keep defenses honest). 

But Bibby is a different story. He's been a 19-20 ppg, 5-6 apg guy the past few seasons, in large part because he's been playing in a share-the-wealth offense alongside two of the best-passing centers in recent NBA history (Brad Miller and, before him, Vlade Divac). But I think Bibby's capable of being an 18 ppg, 8 apg dude. While he's always been a capable scorer, he was a bit more of a pass-first point guard coming out of college. He's a pretty steady, level-headed floor leader, who might have more of a competitive edge to his personality than MIller. I'd view him as at least a slight upgrade for the Nuggets.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Timmons said:


> I also think Dre's a great PG, but I just don't like his style with the team either. I'm definitely not saying that Denver needs to go out and trade Miller right away for say Danny Fortson, but Miller is a great bargaining piece for the Nugs who are looking to make changes.
> 
> Miller is not an untouchable player and everyone who knows the Nuggets knows that, but he's also not just a throw away guy. It would have to take the right deal to get Miller because trading him would kill the Nuggets if the right move were not made.


Pretty much agree.

That is why I asked which teams would want Dre instead of what trades could we come up with for Dre. Like it or lump it, Dre is an important part of the Nuggets and moving him from the Nuggets would require a series of moves.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

bibby is more than a SLIGHT upgrade. hed be a HUGE upgrade! underrated passer and teams will NOT leave him open from distance like they would with andre. i mean damn, dres man would double melo the second dre let it go. dre needs to at least cut more if nobodys gonna guard him from long range :nonono:


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