# Trade Mike James!



## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

Just wanted to know how everyone else felt about this guy.

He's going to be about 31 years old by next year...most guards start there downhill slide at around 32/33. Therefore, the guy has about one year left of quality ball left in him.

Its not like the Raptors should aim for 2006/2007 Playoffs... they need to think long term....hence try to build a team that will CONTEND for the championship in two to three years..... moving Mike James at the trade deadline for a young talent is the smartest thing Embry could do....signing this guy will be a huge mistake(hes going to demand a 4-5 year contract with about 6/7 Mill Per). Calderon is not going to be a starter in this league unless he really improves....but at 25/26 he's reached his 'potential'.

since Mike James will be about 34/35 when the Raptors will probably contend...... will he be sufficiet/effecient as a starting point guard at that age? 

discuss :cheers:


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

It depends what we can get for him. If we get low-balled like we were supposedly getting last year with Marsh, there's no point. But if a quality deal comes along, we should really think about it.

On the other hand, even though we're planning long term, he's helping the you guygs a lot out this season, and that's a value in itself. After this year, the team will have gone through just about everything and it should prove to be a strong character building one. I don't know if Embry would want to risk losing that.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

I'd keep him. 

The main knocks on him this year are that "he's playing for a contract" or as you said "he's pretty old to think he'll continue to improve" but I don't worry about those things. From the day he came onto the NBA (being undrafted) he had to work for everything to pay his due. 

Some say "he's just looking for his big pay day" but you can make the case for all players in their rookie years, from Jerome James to Larry Hughes. But what makes him different from the "all about the money" players was that he worked his *** off to get where he is today, and he survived in the NBA because he had to work his *** off. He's a fiery competitor that shows in through games and practices.

I say keep him. He knows the system, he instills that swagger onto everyone else, players get along with him great, and if you ask fans of teams he played with before, they'll tell you that they liked him during his stay there. And if anything else, Bosh said he'd love for James to stick around.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

I agree with you Budweiser_Boy BUT, Mike James value could not be higher than it is right now. If he wasn't a free agent at the end of this year it would be even higher. 

this situation reminds me of the A.Davis signing (he also had his best year as a Raptor in his contract year)...it was his best year ever....

Mike James reeks of the same situation......his history as a proven player in the league is too short for such an investment...i don;t want to see us stuck with mediocre players with huge contracts...just seen it too many times as a raptor fan.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I say keep him, especially if we can get him for a 4 year deal under $25 million. Time and time again he's come up huge for us this season. I don't know where we would be without him, every night he seems to be making huge shots when we need them most. I don't even want to begin to imagine where this team would be if we had Rafer Alston running the point. Mike James is only in his 5th NBA season, and he's been improving every year so I think he'll be a solid player for awhile. And depending on the entire Roko Ukic situation, in a couple of years maybe we can just move him to the off-guard position and have Calderon and Ukic primarily playing the point. He seems to be a very positive influence on our young guys, especially Bosh and Calderon, and he and Mo Pete make a very impressive tandem in the backcourt. 

Unless we get something very extraordinary, I think it would be wise to re-sign him.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

trade him and sign him back in the summer - of course the only reason they would not do that is it would signal to the fans that the season is officially over... which is not good form


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

There are a couple of fringe-playoff teams right now that could use his services. I like what he brings to the team, and I think he appreciates having a chunk of the spotlight for the first time in his career.

I would prefer to re-sign him than trade him.

I would prefer to trade him than watch him walk away at season's end.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

clutchmoney said:


> Just wanted to know how everyone else felt about this guy.
> 
> He's going to be about 31 years old by next year...most guards start there downhill slide at around 32/33. Therefore, the guy has about one year left of quality ball left in him.
> 
> ...


You need veterans to be talking about a title. And a competitive vet like James, who has been a good citizen starting or on the bench is a rotation player on a championship team at the age of 32-34.

So trade him for a young talent.... like what a non-lotto pick.... a Dorell Wright... a young talent that will not be any better then James in 3 years quite likely anyway. So how does that make us better then.

We have enough young talent on this team. Make a couple few smart picks to supplement that, keep a few verterans like Mo-Pete and James, and that is a better plan IMO.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

There needs to be an accurate gauge of what he wants, money-wise. If he comes in at something reasonable, sign him up and look for a centre to help out Bosh. If not, Calderón will have to be thrown to the wolves next year and start (though I think he'll be okay, to be honest).

If his contract demands are reasonable, then sign him. If he's going to be unreasonable, deal him for someone else, preferably for someone mostly decent and locked into a contract they can't get out of. :biggrin: (Unless, of course, their name is Vince Carter and they just whine and whine and whine like a 2-year-old [or get their mom to whine for them]). I'll stop now. :biggrin:


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

Now that Larry Hughes might be out for the season, I assume the Cavs would be very interested in James. They need someone to pick up Hughes' scoring. They really want to get LeBron into the playoffs and do well this year.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

Who can Cavs offer though? (Either than a first round pick and a garbage player)
I can only see them giving up Varejao or Luke Jackson, and we're not really in need of another PF (Varejao) or even a small forward/shooting guard (Luke Jackson) (plus he's out for 2-3 months with a broken wrist)


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

narrator said:


> There needs to be an accurate gauge of what he wants, money-wise. If he comes in at something reasonable, sign him up and look for a centre to help out Bosh. If not, Calderón will have to be thrown to the wolves next year and start (though I think he'll be okay, to be honest).
> 
> If his contract demands are reasonable, then sign him. If he's going to be unreasonable, deal him for someone else, preferably for someone mostly decent and locked into a contract they can't get out of. :biggrin: (Unless, of course, their name is Vince Carter and they just whine and whine and whine like a 2-year-old [or get their mom to whine for them]). I'll stop now. :biggrin:


I believe his agent went public a couple weeks ago saying that 4 years/ 20 mil would keep him in Toronto.


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

Benis007 said:


> I believe his agent went public a couple weeks ago saying that 4 years/ 20 mil would keep him in Toronto.


if James keeps playing well, it's going to be higher...but then again it's supply and deman how many teams that has available cap that needs a point guard/2 guard


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Mike means a lot to this team. I think it would be hard to get a good young guard for him that would make the trade look even. I think even a player like Jack or Duhon would still seem a little short.

Unless we can get a very good young player that we can work into our system without much fuss, I don't think there is any reason to move James at this point. Moving him for just any young player we can get would be a mistake.


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## [email protected] (Sep 27, 2005)

naw mike james isnt going downhill
look at him, how much worst could he get in 1 season?


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Benis007 said:


> I believe his agent went public a couple weeks ago saying that 4 years/ 20 mil would keep him in Toronto.


I did not know that. Thanks for posting it.

On first glance, that seems semi-reasonable, not taking into account his age, etc. One thing, though: he was a reserve most of the time, right? And this is the first time he's played so much, right? So does anyone think that he might have more life in his legs than someone who had been starting and playing big minutes for the last 5 years? (He's only started 118 games to today, after all.)

Just thought I'd mention that.

Oh, and I'm with speedythief: James is important, in a leadership sense. And even if his skills did fade and he wasn't starting at the end of the contract (4-5 years, whatever), he's still come off the bench and be a good influence in the locker room. Thoughts?


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

People are always saying 'his value is high', but what does that really mean?

What would a team realistically give up for a guy that they either will let walk at the end of the playoffs, OR, if they want to re-sign him could just wait until the summer and sign him without giving up anything? Not very much is my guess.

He is a bench player on a championship team, so no contender is going to pay a huge premium for him. And a lesser team can just wait til the summer and sign him.

If he is just a rental you are not going to get a building block in return. So to get value back you really need a team that would want to extend him AND that MJ would actually sign an extension with.

There are probably only 2-3 teams in the league that would 'value' MJ highly enough to give you real value back. Its even tougher because he is an expiring contract and the Raps won't want a longer contract back unless the player is a building block.

It would be easier to get value for MJ if he had 2-3 years left on his contract. Then the Raps could take any expiring deal plus a sweetener for him and the trade looks decent. But with him expiring you are only going to get a lesser player in return and the sweetener just isn't going to be very impressive. Almost better to let him walk if he asks for too much.

He is serving a purpose this year by showing our young guys how to be competitive and win games.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

lucky777s said:


> People are always saying 'his value is high', but what does that really mean?
> 
> If he is just a rental you are not going to get a building block in return. So to get value back you really need a team that would want to extend him AND that MJ would actually sign an extension with.
> 
> He is serving a purpose this year by showing our young guys how to be competitive and win games.


I don't think you guys understand....the talent level of the Raptors is horrible.....Graham is a bust.....CharlieV is going to be a Rasheed Wallace at most...not gonna show up everyday.....and Chris Bosh is going to be the only star. Other than that there is no young talent....no bench...this team is'nt going anywhere for some time.....to not use assets such as Mike James to get someone like say Pietrus from Golden State...this team is not going to improve....no free agent's are gonna want to come here .....you are gonna have to trade for people.....with the few assets the Raptors have....the oppurtunity to trade mike james is too great.


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

clutchmoney said:


> I don't think you guys understand....the talent level of the Raptors is horrible.....Graham is a bust.....CharlieV is going to be a Rasheed Wallace at most...not gonna show up everyday.....and Chris Bosh is going to be the only star. Other than that there is no young talent....no bench...this team is'nt going anywhere for some time.....to not use assets such as Mike James to get someone like say Pietrus from Golden State...this team is not going to improve....no free agent's are gonna want to come here .....you are gonna have to trade for people.....with the few assets the Raptors have....the oppurtunity to trade mike james is too great.


 i stopped reading after "Graham is a bust".....


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

wind161 said:


> i stopped reading after "Graham is a bust".....



the guy is 23....how much better is he going to get???...he's at most going to be a role player....10/15 mins a game....you are dillusional if you think he's somehow going to break out....he has not had one game where he's shown he SHOULD be a starter in the NBA....


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

First, its DELUSIONAL. 

Second, it is you that is being delusional by assuming we could get a nice young player like Pietrus just because we want to. Is there some reason the Warriors want to get rid of Pietrus who is on a rookie scale deal for 2-3 more years? Just so they can extend MJ after this season to a fat contract.

They have Baron Davis and Derek Fisher and they would want to add Mike James? Not seeing that.

There are two sides to every trade. You need to start looking at things from the other team's perspective. Why do they need MJ right away? Why not sign him as a FA this summer? How much would they really give up to just rent him for 3 months and let him walk?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Just once, I'd like to see the Raptors keep players who are regarded as "high-value" players. I mean, if a player plays good enough to warrant himself as having good value on their name, stick with them. 

Eventually we'll need guys like James who plays to win and knows how to win. We'll need guys like him to rub off on current and future young'ins.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

As I mentioned before, the perfect fit for James is in Cleveland. They really need him this year because Hughes is gone, yet they don't really need him next year because Hughes will be back. They don't want to take a chance on a late season slide and have LeBron miss the playoffs yet again. The problem is the Cavs have no desirable assets to trade. I guess we could get their 1st this year.


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

clutchmoney said:


> the guy is 23....how much better is he going to get???...he's at most going to be a role player....10/15 mins a game....you are dillusional if you think he's somehow going to break out....he has not had one game where he's shown he SHOULD be a starter in the NBA....


And mike James is 31 and in the best year of his career, to label someone a bust when they're not even HALF WAY through they're rookie year is what someone who knows absolutely nothing might say. I'm not saying hes going to be a star player or anything but to label him a bust this early in his career, when hes proven to be a pretty efficient player with his minutes isn't right either. Also to think that Golden State would trade away Peitrus for Mike James and possibly have him walk on them at the end of the year also sounds off to me.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

i know Pietrus would be impossible to get….it was wishful thinking…it was just a player i like…..

Lucky777 thank you for the spelling check…… :clap: ...congrats you can spell.

anywayz....Mike James is going to ask for the full MLE which is about 6Mil....i don't understand how you guys view him as valuable for the young guys at 6MILL per season....don't make no sense to me ....you can find enough vets in the league who could be role models for the young guys for a lot cheaper...yes he's winning games for us right now....but that's what we have Bosh for.....in the long run he's gonna be the one who's gonna win games for the Raps..not Mike James.

my point is trade him while you can still get something for him....over paying for him is a mistake because of his age...the Raps have made this mistake plenty of times before....
anyway Atlanta is a team looking for a PG....send him there....they have plenty of young talent.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

It's not a spelling check. Its an intelligence check, or a credibility check if you prefer.

When you decide to post on a new board and tell people that they don't know what they are talking about you might want to try and communicate intelligently if you want your opinion to be respected. Using words that actually exist would be a good start. 

You might also want to try being respectful. Especially when you just throw out ideas like trading for Pietrus or Atlanta's young talent. Why would Atlanta trade for MJ when they can just sign him this summer? They have cap room. They don't have to give up anything. And if MJ is no good for us because of his age then why would Atlanta consider him? You discredit your own idea.

Don't just throw out ideas without fully examining them yourself first. If you want any credibility on this board you had better put a bit more thought into your posts. You don't even make any mention of how we can match salaries in a trade. Do you even know about the CBA and how it affects trades?

Nobody wants to overpay for MJ. But it can be better to let a player walk for nothing rather than make the wrong trade. Don't just assume your dream trade is out there. There has yet to be even one rumour about MJ out there. So where is all the interest?


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *clutchmoney!*
> 
> I don't think you guys understand....the talent level of the Raptors is horrible.....Graham is a bust.....CharlieV is going to be a Rasheed Wallace at most...not gonna show up everyday.....and Chris Bosh is going to be the only star. Other than that there is no young talent.....


your post sounds like a glass half empty one to me

Bosh/Charlie/Graham is a great young core to build around, now you add a secondary group of Calderon, Hoffa and Pape and you have IMO all the youth that a team should have. Also don't forget about the assets overseas developing. I am done with the youth movement, it is now time to surround them with more experienced players as they grow.

Mike James might be the best option for this franchise at the point, now and in the future, he represents everything we lacked last year with Rafer running the team, and being realistic, trading him for even a Dorrel Wright type player, will set us back for years IMO. Who will run the team next year if he's gone????



> Originally posted by *clutchmoney!*
> 
> to not use assets such as Mike James to get someone like say Pietrus from Golden State...this team is not going to improve....no free agent's are gonna want to come here .....you are gonna have to trade for people.....with the few assets the Raptors have....the oppurtunity to trade mike james is too great


I think you're seriously overrating what Mike James will get in a trade, sure his value is high, but teams that really want Mike will simply target him in the offseason without having to give up anything in return. 

What do you really think we can get for him? and how will that make us better now or in the future?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

wind161 said:


> i stopped reading after "Graham is a bust".....


I gave him the benefit of the doubt on that one... although it was to early a call.

I stopped reading after he said Charlie V would be Rasheed Wallace at best, and he was suggesting that was a bad thing.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

lucky777s said:


> It's not a spelling check. Its an intelligence check, or a credibility check if you prefer.
> 
> You might also want to try being respectful.
> 
> Nobody wants to overpay for MJ. But it can be better to let a player walk for nothing rather than make the wrong trade. Don't just assume your dream trade is out there. There has yet to be even one rumour about MJ out there. So where is all the interest?



man you are taking this a little too seriously.....i take about 1minute to post.....i'm not here to make an impression on anybody….this is supposed to be for fun….well at least for me…

you don’t have to hear rumors to measure an interest in a player…that’s silly..most rumors don’t even come true…. plus who's the one who validates the rumors??….unless you work for the organization nobody really know jack s h * T…. :cheers:


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

TRON said:


> your post sounds like a glass half empty one to me
> 
> I think you're seriously overrating what Mike James will get in a trade, sure his value is high, but teams that really want Mike will simply target him in the offseason without having to give up anything in return.
> 
> What do you really think we can get for him? and how will that make us better now or in the future?


TRON i honestly don't know his value....do;t you think there are some teams that want to make a playoff push?...i would think someone would want to risk it....we see it almost every year....rent a players always have SOME value....

After reading some of the posts i see what everyone sees in Mike James....to be honest i am a huge Houston Rockets fan....and one thing i noticed when he was there was that he wanted to be the man on a team with T-Mac and Ming....i'm just a little afraid he's one of those guys who won't know when he should rely on other players....when he gets older will he realize that he's not the man?....it's that attitude that scares me about him....and that's what got him traded to the Raptors.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

Building an NBA franchise is about accumulating assets and improving them over time. If you can resign James, then I do it, you know he works very well in your system and with your current players, he's clearly a hard worker, and he doesn't have a lot of NBA miles on him despite his age. I don't happen to think there's another free agent out there I'd prefer giving the money to at the same position. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't sign him for more than 4 years, but 4 years, $20M would be acceptable. As for trading him away, you'd get next to nothing for him, the rent-a-player scenario in the NBA rarely nets much of value. This team has lots of youth, we need to keep some experienced vets in the mix as well.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

Mike James might get you a late 1st rounder.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

#1... i think clutch money is way off about Joey Graham... i can see him becoming a very good as a 6th man or something like that... just a really good guy to have coming off the bench. Athletic, has the tools to become a good defender, has a great mid-range jump shot. Yes, he is 23, but most NBA players are in their peak at around... 27-31... (25-31 for highschool players).

#2, That Atlanta idea intrigued me. I know ATL itself doesnt make all that much sense because they, like us, aren't looking to win now. But, there has got to be a team in the playoff hunt who could use a player of Mike James's quality, and has a young wing player to give up... Everyone put on your thinking caps!

-lata


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Mike James was born 6/23/75 and is 30 years 8 months old. 

Jason Kidd born 3/23/73 and has ~$59 million for next 3 seasons.

Steve Nash born 02/07/74 and has ~$34 million for next 3 seasons.

Chauncy Billups born 09/25/76 and has ~ $13 million for next 2 seasons.

There must be other examples of "aged" NBA players and their contracts.

If James wants a $20 million 4 year contract that may be pushing it on the age aspect ... but maybe something like an $18 million 3 year contract might fly a bit better .... after all he has proven he can shoot and dribble .... now how does he run plays and work on defense ...???


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

I hate this type of thread, threads like this are normally started by brainless leafs fan that has become a basketball fan...

Why trade for the sake of making trades, just because his value is up..If James leaves then so be it there are other free agent PG available...Who would you get for mike james, since it will be a buyer's market and all those fringe teams that wants to make the playoffs none of them really needs a point guard and the 2 teams that might need a point guard are cleveland or memphis and neither of them really has any commodity that raptors would want...a draft pick? nah Raptors already one of their draft picks


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Let's ship AD, MJ and EWill for a first rounder, young talents and expiring contract ...


anybody have that?


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

The Raptors don't need any more young talent (barring whomever they get with their lottery pick). They need some vets to play with the youngsters. You can't win in the NBA with a team of infants (which Atlanta is attempting to do).

So, if the contract demands are reasonable, sign him. If they are unreasonable, see what you can get for him. If what you can get is an upgrade at, for example, centre (where upgrade = my cat and up), then do it. If not, hold on to him and hope his demands come down.

The upshot is that the Raptors have a young core. They need to build around it now to give them the maximum time to jell and return to the playoffs and beyond. They should not trade James for another freaking draft pick. They need some veterans and they need classy vets to sing Toronto's praises, to make it an attractive place to play.


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## jjello (Feb 29, 2004)

we can't trade mike james, he provides chemisty and offence..
as Toronto really needs an "offensive threat" and they need as much as they can get...and mike james is more of the shoot first then pass PG, and he gets the job done..hes clutch. im not saying he deserves a long-term contract but toronto would definitly benefit with him in te short run.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

he's good for 2 years as a starter , I certinly think that. 
When Calderon/Ukic show they can take over or James performance start's to fall then trade him.


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## char_renee (Dec 17, 2005)

clutchmoney said:


> Just wanted to know how everyone else felt about this guy.
> 
> He's going to be about 31 years old by next year...most guards start there downhill slide at around 32/33. Therefore, the guy has about one year left of quality ball left in him.
> 
> ...



from the insider who is a reliable source for the pistons it was report on am12.70am here in detroit that cato will be included in another trade with the lottery pick to get mike james from toronto to return back to detroit.pistons are praying for the lottery pick to include in a trade with the raptors.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

So Cato and Orlando's pick are coming to Toronto?

How do the Raps fit his contract in this season?


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

char_renee said:


> from the insider who is a reliable source for the pistons it was report on am12.70am here in detroit that cato will be included in another trade with the lottery pick to get mike james from toronto to return back to detroit.pistons are praying for the lottery pick to include in a trade with the raptors.


mike and eric for cato and the pick? we could sign priz/nene and still have >mle (for james, if we want him back)


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

i just thought that, i read the title of the darko thread and then it hit me! last night i was watching the detroit game and they said the joe dumars had said he would only trade darko and arroyo of he got another pg back... perfect scenario maybe? i would like it more if we got another sure thing young guy with a lower ceiling... maybe jameer nelson... i dont know just throwing names out there.. but getting a young guy for mike james would be sick.

-lata


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

ColinBeehler said:


> i just thought that, i read the title of the darko thread and then it hit me! last night i was watching the detroit game and they said the joe dumars had said he would only trade darko and arroyo of he got another pg back... perfect scenario maybe? i would like it more if we got another sure thing young guy with a lower ceiling... maybe jameer nelson... i dont know just throwing names out there.. but getting a young guy for mike james would be sick.
> 
> -lata


i dunno, we cant keep going young because we need veterans on this team.. and i dont want chris bosh to be our oldest player..actually, if araujo is still on the team, he'd b the "veteran", but i mean mike james has done everything for us this year, so y not reward him? its not like hes gonna b declining any time soon.


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

I think his value is high but finding a match is difficult

Teams in the playoff race looking for a primary option at guard
1. Cleveland
2. LA LAKERS
3. Memphis

Teams in the playoff race looking for a secondary option at guard
4. Detroit (if Hunter stays out)
5. NO/NOK

Teams on the bubble who might look for an upgrade
6. Golden State (if Baron misses extended time)
7. Utah

lots of suitors but few matches unless picks or other players involved

Lakers - Bynum (mentioned as untouchable) or Vujacic
Memphis - Dahntay Jones?
GS - Biedrins and Pietrus (mentioned as untouchable)
NO/NOK - Kirk Snyder? 
Utah - Whaley or Mcleod?

I would love to get Bynum or Biedrins but it would take alot to pry them away. Raps are in cost-cutting mode so MLSE might want to make a playoff run this year and then let MJ/Antonio/etc walk in the off-season


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

Mike James + Joey Graham + 2 x 2nd Rounder for Francisco Garcia + Brian Skinner and a 1st Rounder.

Mike James's contract is not something I want to worry about this summer, and Joey Graham is officially the Hoffa at SF. Too slow, and not enough game. Garcia is already an above average defender, and can play 1-3 well (Imagine an early Doug Christie). And Skinner gives us another Big Body who can play center.


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

why is there all this hate on Mike James? he is the reason why we are winning. If we can sign him with a price similar to MoPete's contract then we should keep him.....I think our team is set....with a few pieces we can be a playoff team...


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## Theberge43 (Nov 2, 2004)

I'm still thinking DET would be the perfect destination for Mike James.

Here is an interesting scenario :

Trade Mike James & Eric Williams for Kelvin Cato & DET 1st pick in 2006 or 2007.
(I would want ORL's 1st in 2007 - Greg Oden anyone ? - but we would have to add something for sure)
The Media are saying that Cato won't play in Detroit and that Dumars wants to use his expiring contract to get a guard.

Before the trade you say to Mike that you are giving him the chance at a championship, but that you want to sign him back in the summer.

Perfect scenario, I think ... we get a better position in this year draft by loosing a little more with Mike gone. We get a look at a real C who has had some injurie problems, but his contract is up at the end of the year. If the experience is good, we can always try to resign him. We get another first pick almost free. We can still try to resign Mike in the summer.

We don't have more chance at signing Mike this summer if he stays in TOR for the rest of the season. I believe giving him the chance at a championship is a better gift than keeping him here. Plus DET won't be able to resign him because they have to resign Big Ben & Billups this summer.


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## flushingflash (Jan 4, 2006)

i wouldnt trade MJ, the guy is basically our go to guy down the stretch, bosh is our best player but MJ is the one who takes over with 5 or 6 minutes left and takes most of the big shots.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Theberge43 said:


> I'm still thinking DET would be the perfect destination for Mike James.
> 
> Here is an interesting scenario :
> 
> ...



I was thinking of this too. Oden would be impossible given the 07 top 5 protection, but we could keep it or flip it at the draft.

Detroit has room for a 2 for 1 deal.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

The_Notic said:


> Mike James + Joey Graham + 2 x 2nd Rounder for Francisco Garcia + Brian Skinner and a 1st Rounder.
> 
> Mike James's contract is not something I want to worry about this summer, and Joey Graham is officially the Hoffa at SF. Too slow, and not enough game. Garcia is already an above average defender, and can play 1-3 well (Imagine an early Doug Christie). And Skinner gives us another Big Body who can play center.


I fail to see how you're considering Graham as a bust.
Though Skinner is listed as a Center, I find him to be too small to play it, he's only 6'9"
I really like Garcia, I thought he would be a bust in the NBA but he's turning out to be a solid all around player.
I don't think this trade is a bad idea yet I'd still rather keep onto Graham and see how he performs once he gets more minutes again.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

The_Notic said:


> Mike James + Joey Graham + 2 x 2nd Rounder for Francisco Garcia + Brian Skinner and a 1st Rounder.
> 
> Mike James's contract is not something I want to worry about this summer, and Joey Graham is officially the Hoffa at SF. Too slow, and not enough game. Garcia is already an above average defender, and can play 1-3 well (Imagine an early Doug Christie). And Skinner gives us another Big Body who can play center.



I am glad you see it as well........Graham is just not going to be anything other than a bench player.... i've tried to see positives in his game....he's a little to big..he needs to get rid of that bulk and add some speed....

as for Mike James...too mnay of you guys are drinking the purple juice....the guy is going to be on a major downhill in a year or so... get rid of him....don't need him on the bench playing cheerleader.....have had too many of those guys.....Vets can be had cheap if you do need a positive influence for your young guys...say no to mike James! :clap:


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

From previous posts, most people know that I'm not a huge fan of Mike James. I worry that if we sign him to a long term expensive deal, then we might regret it in 2 years time when I feel that we'll be in position to win the Atlantic (very likely if you look at the other teams in our division and the ages of their key players).

A lot of people seem to be keen to move Joey as well, so here would be my best go at a move with Detroit.

Note that because of Cato's recent trade, he can only be traded individually and not as a package, hence the two trades:

Trade 1:
Toronto sends:
Mike James and Eric Williams 2006 Miami 2nd round

Detroit Sends:
Cato and Orlando 2007 1st

Trade 2:
Toronto sends:
Joey Graham and 2007 or 2008 TO 2nd round

Detroit sends:
Lindey Hunter and Carlos Delfino

Toronto gets more capspace, gets rid of Williams, gets a pick in a year when we may give ours up to Charlotte and picks up a young wing prospect while giving up early on Graham.

Detroit gets their backup PG for the remainder of the season, a solid SF/SG in Graham and a couple of future picks.

I know that Trade 1 seriously favours TO but Trade 2 definitely evens the scales as Detroit wins big. Combined as one trade, it looks solid from my point of view.


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## Brolic (Aug 6, 2005)

Toronto should keep him along w/ Calderon that's 2 good pgs, a lot of teams can't say that

Chris Bosh has publicly said the team should resign James. When your franchise player says that he's basically keeping an eye on management so resign James so that he's happy. This is a decent year for the Raptors as in there looks to be a hope of becoming a playoff team soon. 
Resign James and Bosh, draft good get a FA that does something the others don't do (slasher) and you're good to go I'm pulling for you guys to make it happen


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Team Mao said:


> From previous posts, most people know that I'm not a huge fan of Mike James. I worry that if we sign him to a long term expensive deal, then we might regret it in 2 years time when I feel that we'll be in position to win the Atlantic (very likely if you look at the other teams in our division and the ages of their key players).
> 
> A lot of people seem to be keen to move Joey as well, so here would be my best go at a move with Detroit.
> 
> ...


The first trade isn't too bad, but I still don't think I would do it. We need veterans on this ball club, we have enough young players. The pick should be in the top 10, but this is a weak draft and there is no guarentee that the player we get will pan out to be better than Mike James.

Second trade will not happen, and I wouldn't want it to happen either. First off, why would Detroit trade away their two backup PG's? They just traded Arroyo away. I say we stick with Graham, Hunter and Delfino wouldn't provide us with much, and neither are a huge upgrade over Calderon.


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## Theberge43 (Nov 2, 2004)

The point most people doesn't seem to get is we don't have more chances to sign Mike James this summer if we keep him in TOR ... wherever he finishes the season, he will become an unrestricted free agent.

I say trade him to a contender as a gift, pair him with Ewill, get a little return and try to sign him this summer.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

To clarify: James's contract isn't up this summer; he can opt out of it, which he almost certainly will.

The Raptors should not trade James just because they can. They need, as has been pointed out in this tread repeatedly, vets on the team. You can't keep getting younger and younger until you're fielding a grade 3 team or something. It doesn't work like that in the NBA.

You need veterans. James is a classy vet who can start for 2-3 years, move to SG for Calderón to play PG and then come off the bench later on. He'll appreciate the Raptors fos his chance and perhaps sign for something reasonable, like $18-22 million for 3-4 years or something. With James and Peterson, the Raps have 2 classy vets to provide leadership. Then they go find a decent center and some reliable bench players who know their roles (Villanueva is a good start, Sow is near the end of the rotation right now) and dump the rest of the garbage in the summer.

The target next year should be playoffs. The target the year after should be 2nd round and beyond. To do that, the Raptors need to be focused on today and tomorrow. The relentless focus on tomorrow means that today is lost. And that's NOT a good thing.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

kamaze said:


> Toronto should keep him along w/ Calderon that's 2 good pgs, a lot of teams can't say that
> 
> Chris Bosh has publicly said the team should resign James. When your franchise player says that he's basically keeping an eye on management so resign James so that he's happy. This is a decent year for the Raptors as in there looks to be a hope of becoming a playoff team soon.
> Resign James and Bosh, draft good get a FA that does something the others don't do (slasher) and you're good to go I'm pulling for you guys to make it happen



do you remember the last time a superstar in Toronto forced management to sign a bunch of overachievers?


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