# Miles Has To Go



## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

I can't see how people say we should get rid of Davis and keep Miles. Sure, Davis can be a selfish player sometimes, but last season I think this may have been because he was fed up with the rest of the team not caring. Z is just as selfish as Davis, as he will demand the ball all the time and force up a shot every time he touches it. 

Miles is a team cancer. He doesnt want to play here, he doesn't like the city. I say let him go, trade him for WHATEVER you can get, because his value has to be next to nothing. Miles will NEVER merit his selection that high in the draft, he will probably never even be a good role player on a team. He lacks the fundamental basketball skills a kid learns in 8th grade. His claim to fame before this past season is that he was a high flyer. However, he can barely jump anymore because he put on so much weight (not muscle, btw) and its killing his knee that he never bothered to rehab because he was too busy making some movie that will suck. So his one skill he had is now gone, I believe him to be one of the worst players in the league. Yogi Stewart could've put up Miles' numbers if he got the same amout of minutes, and we all know Stewart is HORRIBLE. 

So I say we trade Z, and tell the team that takes him that they have to take Miles too. I love Z and all, he is one of the best true centers in the game, however, he doesn't fit in with our team anymore. Last year we were supposed to be a high-flying, uptempo team. This was killed when we had to continually feed the ball to Z in the post. He demands the ball too much and is too slow to keep up with what our offense SHOULD be doing, but failed to last year. LeBron's talent will be wasted if we turn into a halfcourt team, pounding the ball into Z all season with him shooting all of 41% because he forces some of the worst shots I have ever seen.

On the bright side, even if we keep all these guys, think of it this way: last season we WERE tanking, it's plain and simple. We were not trying to win, but this year we will be, so we have nowhere to go but up, especially now that we will have a good coach (Lucas was the worst coach ever, and Smart is too nice of a guy for this team). The talent level of this team is pretty good, sure as hell better than 17 wins. Now we have another good player to add to our team, so why not subtract a player that was bringing us down (Miles). Wags, Davis, Lebron, Boozer, and Z is one hell of a lineup if you ask me. And if we do for some reason keep Miles, there is no way we can justify starting him, he'll be our 6th man, but technically he doesn't even warrant that good of a spot on the team.

P.S. I'm pulling for Silas as the next coach, who's with me?


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Finally everyone can see this guy is a bust, and who cares if he doesn't like the city, he is not good period. He will be out of the league soon enough because I don't see a team that will pay him more money for the same garbage as when he was 18. At least I hope not. The Bulls should be glad they didn't get him. Fizer is finally starting to get it, too bad his best years will be with someone else. :uhoh: :uhoh:


----------



## Wagner2 (Jun 29, 2002)

I agree that DMiles is nowhere near being a contributor this team, and we have a better option as our backup SF (Jumaine Jones) then trying to force Miles in. I'm not sure what we can get in return, if he still considered to have "untapped potetial", then maybe we can get something good in return for him, but I don't want to see a trade to just dump (i.e. getting Nick Anderson). 

As for Illgaskas, I really can't see trading him. As you said, he is one of the best pure centers in the game, and it'd be hard to justify a trade to rid him. Plus, right now we're looking at a line-up with Wagner, James, Davis, Boozer, Z. Wags and Booz are coming in to their 2nd year, James a rook, and Davis is coming off his first year as a legtimite player. WE NEED TO SCORE! If we get rid of Illgauskas, and we start Diop for example, then we're left with about 8 years of combined NBA experience, and we will score 73 points per game. 

Davis - I know there seems to be a general consensous that he needs to be traded, but I'm not convinced it has to be right now. He may be traded, and he may have to be traded to get a SF that doesn't have to score 20-25 ppg, but right now we need some experience. We can't lose Davis' 23 ppg and then expect LeBron or Dajuan to fill that void (they maybe able to, but it's a HUGE risk). 

So, as I just said, I really don't see that much movement this offseason, Just my humble opinion...

Starting Line-up: Wagner, James, Davis, Boozer, Illgauskas

Bench: Jones, Parker, Miles, Mihm, Diop, Brown, 2nd Round Pick


----------



## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

*Smush*

Smush won't be back on the team next year. I was one of his biggest supporters, but if what i read about him was true, then we don't need his attitude. He isnt that great anyway. He'd be a great back-up pg to have, but if his head isn't on striaght, i'd just as soon let him go. I can't wait to see Lebron at the point-forward ala Grant Hill (without the ankle problems of course).

If that isn't what Lebron will be playing, I hope we trade Miles and our second round pick to either move up in the draft to get a young pg or just trade them for a proven vet. This team will need direction on the floor.

GO CAVS!


----------



## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

Oh, and isn't Jones a FA? If so, I don't know why everyone is assuming he'll just sign back with us. If Miles doesn't go, Jones has no place on this team, because he would have to split minutes with Lebron, Davis, and Miles. Jones would be the odd man out, and I'd rather have him off the bench than Miles anyday.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Jones is a restricted free agent


----------



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

I really can't believe you guys are giving up on Darius already! He is a three year player, he has been in the league one, two, three years! That is not that long, and he has averaged around 10 points a game and 5 rebounds every year.

Sure he might have "lost" some hops but trust me they are not gone, you can always jump unless he goes Shawn Kemp style and gets to weight 240, or in Kemps case 300!

Darius has never really developed a outside shot yet so that is one thing he could improve on that would help his production. Darius also has not got a grasp of defense either, even though he did average 1-2 blocks a game. Sure he is not one a great pace to be a All Star for years to come. But he is a good player and really he has not had a great coach in any of those three years. So maybe Van Gundy or Silas can light a fire under him, because if they can do that Darius should be a fine player!


If you don't want him I'm posititve 10-15 other NBA teams would love to have him! He has been some what of a disappointment but don't give up on him yet...












P.S. Why in the hell would you trade Ilgauskas? Yeah there are a ton of good big men that get you 17 points and 8 rebounds a game sitting around Sure he slows up the game but guards are better when they have a dominate post player, AKA Kobe.


----------



## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

Shaq makes Kobe better because he passes the ball. Z gets the ball in the post and forces shots almost no matter what. If he doesn't get the ball, he pouts and stops trying on defense. I really don't think he's much of a team player. There's no way you can compare shaq and z, shaq is better at every facet of the game except ft shooting and mid-range jumpers. At 340 lbs, he is still faster and much more athletic than Z. 

By the way, I am not saying that the cavs SHOULD trade Z. What i am saying is that I would understand if they did. His health is a shot in the dark, so why not get something for him before he probably breaks another foot and retires? However, I will not be mad at all if we keep him. The way I see it, he is the second or third best TRUE center. I don't count guys like wallace and j. o'neal as centers because they are power forwards that happen to play center in the weak @$$ eastern conference. 

GO CAVS!


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i would offer AW for miles + smush parker but i'm not sure that toronto's salary cap situation will allow us to resign miles. 

i think a lineup of carter, miles, and bosh could really fly.


----------



## BigGameJames (May 27, 2003)

Borowski, you are right about the team tanking it last season. I think alot of people forget about this and think that the Cavaliers are the least talented in the world because they only won 17 games. Turns out 17 wins was the magic number--tied for last place with Denver. I also agree that Silas is the man for the job in Cleveland. I think Darius Miles deserves one more chance this upcoming season with a "real" head coach. Miles has been completely screwed since he entered the league. Who would develop after spending two years in LA and the third on the Cavs not even TRYING to WIN? Look, it is no secret that Ricky Davis is turning into a pretty solid NBA player. I don't think we can trade Ricky until we find our permanent solution at the point guard position. I'm not talking about Alvin Williams or anyone else either. I'm talking about the guy who is going to be combined with Wagner and James to give Cleveland a real shot the Eastern conference. This year the team is probably going to be James at the 1,Wags at the 2, Davis at the 3. Until we can move Lebron to the 3 we HAVE to keep Ricky around. He is just too talented.


----------



## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

I agree with this post miles is nothing more then a glorified Jerome Moiso.. if it wasnt for his self promoting head bumping and being picked 3rd nobody would give a damn about Miles or what he was doing because hes simply a great athlete who is na AVERAGE basketball player....


And it has notihng to do with his age u can tell hes just never gonna be a poilshed offensive player... hes awkward trying score in the halfcourt he can only flourish on a team that fast breaks and evne then u cant run the whole game..


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

LeBron is not a small forward I think realistically his measurements are 6'6"-6'7" 225 lbs. That is definitely a little undersized by today’s standards for starting small forwards. Plus with someone as skilled and talented as James you don’t force him to play a position that doesn’t suite him. He is definitely a shooting guard in my eye who can still take the ball up initiate the offense and have it run through him ala kobe with shaq on bench.


----------



## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

BigGame, first off its BOWSKI. Second, thanks for your support. I am not totally against Miles getting one more shot with a good coach(assuming we get one), but there is no way he should start. If we trade Davis, Miles will start, and no one wants that, do they? 

Keith, i couldn't agree with you more, except that i don't think Miles is even an average player. With the right amount of work, he could become above average, but for now he is just on the brink between below average and average. The one point I found interesting in your post is that you say he could only be good on a team that does fast breaks all the time because he is good in the open court. If you watched a lot of cavs games last year(as i did), you would see that this is false. Whenever miles would have the ball in the open court with anyone in front of him, probably 75% of the time it would result in a turnover on his part. It was truly pathetic to watch. However, like I said, given the right coach, such as Silas or Brown, I think he could grow into a somewhat effective role player.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> LeBron is not a small forward I think realistically his measurements are 6'6"-6'7" 225 lbs. That is definitely a little undersized by today’s standards for starting small forwards. Plus with someone as skilled and talented as James you don’t force him to play a position that doesn’t suite him. He is definitely a shooting guard in my eye who can still take the ball up initiate the offense and have it run through him ala kobe with shaq on bench.


I dont know where you get that size because that young boy is definitley 6' 8 without shoes and is at least his listed weight of 240. Hes more than big enough to play the 3


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

I think Hedo Turkoglu would be your answer for the small forward. Here’s a guy with a true small forward body with decent athletic capability can create his own shot and is a good catch and shoot player (not to mention he is also a good defender). He doesn’t have much of a role with the deep Kings squad but would find a ton of playing time in Cleveland and they could definitely use him.


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Cavs forward Jumaine Jones, meanwhile, said James is neither a point guard nor a forward. Jones also questions his listed height. 

"Everyone's saying he's 6-7 or 6-8, but when I saw him up close, he was more like 6-5," Jones said. "Sometimes he can run the point and in some situations, he can play the forward position, but I believe he's a shooting guard in the NBA. I'm impressed with his quickness, his explosiveness and his very mature game." 

http://www.cleveland.com/lebron/index.ssf?/base/sports/105385541077792.xml


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Webber is listed at 245...i'm sorry but webber has a lot more then 5 lbs on bron.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Cavs forward Jumaine Jones, meanwhile, said James is neither a point guard nor a forward. Jones also questions his listed height.
> 
> "Everyone's saying he's 6-7 or 6-8, but when I saw him up close, he was more like 6-5," Jones said. "Sometimes he can run the point and in some situations, he can play the forward position, but I believe he's a shooting guard in the NBA. I'm impressed with his quickness, his explosiveness and his very mature game."
> ...


Uhh what is this guy talking about Lebron was taller than him last year when he was invited to play with the Cavs and the coach got suspended. You can believe that Chris webber is 245 all you want. He closer to 260 than anything. What the NBA has listed is so wrong its ridiculous. Some of the players be taller and heavier than their listed weights and some are shorter and weigh less.


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Your right about Webb looking more 260-265 however who says he was taller then Jumaine last year? Did anybody from here see them side by side or is there a picture? Jumaine is a legit 6'8" and to me LeBron doesn’t look that tall I thin 6'7" at most is very reasonable but there is no way he’s 240 lbs, probably 230 at most. Paul Pierce is probably a legit 230 and he definitely out weighs bron. Not to mention Paul Pierce plays guard and bron is even better suited to play guard then Pierce.


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Whatever we say i dont think we will agree on this. I will say this though in less then a years time I kept seeing brons measurements inflating little by little with his starting weight at 215... How do you feel about Hedo coming and playing for Cleveland?


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Your right about Webb looking more 260-265 however who says he was taller then Jumaine last year? Did anybody from here see them side by side or is there a picture? Jumaine is a legit 6'8" and to me LeBron doesn’t look that tall I thin 6'7" at most is very reasonable but there is no way he’s 240 lbs, probably 230 at most. Paul Pierce is probably a legit 230 and he definitely out weighs bron. Not to mention Paul Pierce plays guard and bron is even better suited to play guard then Pierce.


I have a pic at home and I will up load it here when I get home and Bron is all muscle. I aint even a Bron fan and you can see this is a big big young guy. He is no where near 215. that definitley is doing him no justice


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Whatever we say i dont think we will agree on this. I will say this though in less then a years time I kept seeing brons measurements inflating little by little with his starting weight at 215... How do you feel about Hedo coming and playing for Cleveland?


I like Hedo coming for who though Miles????


----------



## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheBowski</b>!
> BigGame, first off its BOWSKI. Second, thanks for your support. I am not totally against Miles getting one more shot with a good coach(assuming we get one), but there is no way he should start. If we trade Davis, Miles will start, and no one wants that, do they?
> 
> Keith, i couldn't agree with you more, except that i don't think Miles is even an average player. With the right amount of work, he could become above average, but for now he is just on the brink between below average and average. The one point I found interesting in your post is that you say he could only be good on a team that does fast breaks all the time because he is good in the open court. If you watched a lot of cavs games last year(as i did), you would see that this is false. Whenever miles would have the ball in the open court with anyone in front of him, probably 75% of the time it would result in a turnover on his part. It was truly pathetic to watch. However, like I said, given the right coach, such as Silas or Brown, I think he could grow into a somewhat effective role player.


i only saw a few cav games i guess i just figured he was a good open court player because i never seen him get a basket that wasnt a dunk..


----------



## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*...*

I gotta agree with Bowski... I saw every televised Cavs game (60-70 games?) and Miles was nothing at all like the CLips fans were talking about (but then it seems as tho Andre Miller was nothing for LAC like we saw in Clev).... anyway, on fast breaks, Miles would dribble the ball off his leg, or try to make a tough pass and throw the ball away, or just plain mis-handle a pass made to him on a break....

Everyone realizes that Darius is still young, and has a ton of athletic potential, AND that for most kids coming out of HS that their first 2-3-4 years are learning years. The thing is, what most of the regular Cavs viewing fans are trying to say, is that Darius showed no improvement over the course of the season. Boozer did. Smush did. Diop did. Ricky Davis did. Z did. Mihm did. Even Milt Palacio did. Miles DIDNOT show any improvement over the course of the season. 

And ok, he was unhappy to be in CLev. Ya know what? He's a professional basketball player in the NBA making millions of dollars a year, and given his first real shot at a full-time starting position. Get over it ya puss and act like a professional.

If he can get his head and his game tuned up with a new coach... fine. A better Miles only helps Clev, and that is my bottom line. If management feels it would be better to trade him and get a different player.... fine with me too. He has not shown me that much that I would be bothered to see him go. I cannot say the same thing about Ricky (or Z or Smush or Boozer.)


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Hedo I know is a free agent this year reastricted or not im unsure but I think he would be an excelent fit with the cavs. Yes I know bron is all mucsle and I never said he was 215 I just said he was listed at that. I say a good estimate is between 225 and 230.


----------



## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

*quick question*

When did this become the "what are lebron's height/weight and hedo to cleveland" topic? i really don't think this has much to do with the topic that was being discussed before. if lebron can't play small forward, davis can. there. problem solved. game over. we don't need hedo.


----------



## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

on a side note what do cav fans think of chris mihm? the few times i saw him he seemd to get better each game.. i dunno if he will find allot of time on thsi team but i think if he does he can be a pretty solid nba player..


----------



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

It became part of the topic while discussing the small forward situation. I just feel bron is a 1, 2 and can play 3 on occasion but shouldnt start and play that possition for a majority of his minutes.


----------



## BigGameJames (May 27, 2003)

BOWSKI, my apologies for the typo, I don't know what I was thinking there. You are absolutely correct on Miles having to go if its between he and Ricky. Miles shouldn't be starting for any NBA squad in the 03-04 campaign. However, I do feel THIS upcoming year should be viewed as his make or break season. If he plays again like he did this year (showing absolutely zero improvement) then he should be gone or banished to Mateen Cleaves land at the end of the bench in an MSU outfit:uhoh:.


----------



## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Keith Closs</b>!
> on a side note what do cav fans think of chris mihm? the few times i saw him he seemd to get better each game.. i dunno if he will find allot of time on thsi team but i think if he does he can be a pretty solid nba player..


For each of the last 2 years Mihm has looked good at the end of the season. I just don't know why he seems to suck the first half of each season. Is he just not in good enough shape? If not, he needs to practice more in the offseason, because frankly I think he has the talent to be as good or better than Brad Miller or Troy Murphy. While they are clearly not great players they are both very good players in a team concept. Of course, maybe I'm just being optimistic (a homer) but I believe that Mihm has that kind of ability.


----------



## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

*Mihm*

Mihm was injured at the beginning of last season, then when he was healthy, Lucas refused to play him. He played pretty well once he was given consistent minutes and i like his versatility to play either the 4 or 5. I don't think Chris "Big Pimpin" Mihm will ever be the calibur player that a lot of people, including myself, thought he would be when we drafted him. However, he should be a very servicable role player off the bench who can step in and start if someone gets hurt, assuming our new coach gives him minutes. 

By the way, I call Mihm "Big Pimpin" because of the suits he would wear when he as injured, that man was stylin. I hope the nickname catches on, it might just be the confidence booster he needs.


----------



## BigGameJames (May 27, 2003)

Outlaw, as a Cavs fan I sure hope Mihm can develop into the same kind of player Brad Miller is. Imagine if we had Miller backing up Z(I think Z is the better player). I would hate to see all these lotteries go to waste which is a big possibilty at the moment(Andre Miller/Miles,Langdon,Mihm,Diop) I still can't get over the fact we took Langdon over both Artest and Maggette--makes me sick.


----------



## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*...*



> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> 
> 
> For each of the last 2 years Mihm has looked good at the end of the season. I just don't know why he seems to suck the first half of each season. Is he just not in good enough shape? If not, he needs to practice more in the offseason, because frankly I think he has the talent to be as good or better than Brad Miller or Troy Murphy. While they are clearly not great players they are both very good players in a team concept. Of course, maybe I'm just being optimistic (a homer) but I believe that Mihm has that kind of ability.


The biggest difference I see between Brad Miller and Mihm, is Miller plays with intensity. Mihm plays soft. But then, as soft as he appears to play, how come he gets tagged with fouls so often??? I like Miller's game.... Mihm, I am not sold on. Again, he is young, and so often most of us expect even 4 yr college players to come in and produce.... which is wrong.... but we as fans still have those high expectations.... I hope I am wrong about Mihm, but I say trade him. He is a tweener. He's Danny Ferry without the shooting range. I'd rather have Brian Skinner back as a back-up power forward/part time back-up center.


----------



## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

*Hey now*

Let's not say things we can't take back here. Mihm is not Danny Ferry, Ferry is in a class all his own for softness. The guy is 6'10, can he even dunk? I've never seen it, probably because he never ventures more than 2 steps inside the 3 point line. At least Mihm is willing to bang a bit down low and get some boards. He get's pissed off a lot, and when he does, he will play with intensity. However, this intensity usually leads to dumb fouls. 


P.S. Let's try and keep the Ferry refernences to a minimum fellas, he and his 10-year contract almost killed the franchise....i mean come on, imagine what it would've been like with harper instead; we wouldve went to the finals at least once I say.


----------



## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*sorry*

my bad.... and ya know, I really pimped for the Cavs to take Harper in that draft... in fact, a friend and I had a bet, which I obviously won, I wanted Harper, he wanted Dell Curry. All in all, both ended up with solid careers, but Harper was a better player. Too bad the Cavs kinda looked for an opportunity to trade him after some "rumors" surfaced.... and look what we got for him...sheesh.

I can't believe Ferry has lasted as long as he has either!:no:


----------



## JustinSane (May 26, 2003)

I don't know if you guys could get much for Miles, realistically speaking. Unmotivated players with bad fundamentals and delicate emotions are not in great demand in the NBA. Trading him for a second round pick might be a decent idea, just to clear the roster of players with attitude problems and rebuild around LeBron. Between LeBron, Wagner, and whichever center (Diop, Mihm) pans out you could be scary in a few years btw.


----------

