# Raptors trying to trade O'Neal?



## Redeemed

Link




> Colangelo is reportedly trying to trade Jermaine O'Neal, having spoken with at least a half dozen teams about the big man.
> 
> The Raptors acquired O'Neal in a trade with the Pacers this past July. Scouts claim that he lacks any lift in his legs.


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## lucky777s

JO has played very well for the Raps. Some great blocked shots says he has nice lift in his legs.

If we trade him its because the fit is not good with Bosh and Bargs and BC wants Bargs to be the starting C.

Sucks that we had to give up Rasho and a pick along with TJ to get JO.


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## NeoSamurai

Colangelo trading for JO killed this team for the next two years. 

People may not have liked TJ, but from the start, I've always argued that trading Jose would have led to a bigger return to improve this team and would make the squad better overall. Sure, TJ may not be as efficient nor healthy as Jose, but hes not a rag and the potential returns that Jose could have delivered on top of the depth that Rasho and a 1st rounder would have given us certainly appeals to me more than what we have right now. 

Ive really started to question how much success was BC's his own and how much help he had from his dad Jerry while in Phoenix.


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## seifer0406

I'm actually against trading JO unless theres a really good offer on the table. BC need to get this duo some decent wing support before breaking them up. If he is going to give up this easy, then I would much rather have TJ/Rasho/pick than whoever we're going to get out of desperation.


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## Chan Ho Nam

NeoSamurai said:


> Colangelo trading for JO killed this team for the next two years.
> 
> People may not have liked TJ, but from the start, I've always argued that trading Jose would have led to a bigger return to improve this team and would make the squad better overall. Sure, TJ may not be as efficient nor healthy as Jose, but hes not a rag and the potential returns that Jose could have delivered on top of the depth that Rasho and a 1st rounder would have given us certainly appeals to me more than what we have right now.
> 
> Ive really started to question how much success was BC's his own and how much help he had from his dad Jerry while in Phoenix.


i always thought TJ was a better player than Calderon, and even though not as efficient, he was more effective in setting up offensive oppurtunities

i think Roko, in time, can surpass Calderon


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## a_i_4_life

chairman5 said:


> i always thought TJ was a better player than Calderon, and even though not as efficient, he was more effective in setting up offensive oppurtunities
> 
> i think Roko, in time, can surpass Calderon


ford was the one that used to come down the court 1 on 5 and take pull up jumpers...


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## Chan Ho Nam

a_i_4_life said:


> ford was the one that used to come down the court 1 on 5 and take pull up jumpers...


he was also the one that can cross over anyone and get to any part of the halfcourt he wanted

Calderon, uses high picks, over dribbles, and passes only to wide open jump shooters, jump shooting teams dont win games

tj could get wide open on the ft line at will, kinda Chris Paulesque, Calderon will wait all game for that wide open lane and then drive


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## lucky777s

Seems the Bulls are desperate to move Larry Hughes. A trade of JO for Hughes and Gooden would be close to working salary wise. Raps may have to throw in a few mill but would save money overall.

Hughes expires same time as JO. Bulls need interior scoring badly. Raps need a 2 guard badly. Seems like a good fit. This was a guy we would have considered a few years ago at 5yrs/50mill and now we get to try him out on the cheap.

Hughes is not a good FG% guy but in WAS he was a great penetrator and slasher. Got to the FT line about 6-7 times per game. Very athletic player who could help defensively. And he can rebound ok as well. Scored 18-20ppg in WAS.

If we are giving any thought to bringing in Eddie Jordan next year it could really work well. And if BC wants JO out of the way this trade is at least neutral for Raps. Gooden is a nice big man with skill too. And an expiring contract.

Alternatively we could suggest Hughes and Gordon.


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## billfindlay10

We bring in a 2 guard that can't shoot and a back-up 4 man?


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## Ras

billfindlay10 said:


> We bring in a 2 guard that can't shoot and a back-up 4 man?


Yeah I'm not a fan of Hughes at all either. I don't care what he did all those years in Washington, he's done now and isn't going to return to that form. I'd honestly be upset if they pulled a trade for him.


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## Mr_B

Hughes is garbage


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## c_dog

it would be different if he was just shopping o'neal to see where his value is. i think JO's fills a pretty big need for this team and i think he's the kind of player that proves his worth in the playoffs. if the raps can get a stud like gerald wallace or hedo turkoglu or something then i'm cool with the trade, but definitely hope bc's just trading JO for the sake of trading him.

and for the TJ supporters, most of us liked TJ and nobody is questioning his talent. it's his spine injury that we're worried about. TJ has been missing a ton of games recently again with back spasms. are you guys telling me that you seriously would prefer TJ? it was so serious that he even considered retirement.


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## SickGame

I would've loved getting Josh Howard...


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## ballocks

anyone who feels dramatically different about this team given the last week of games is either an ostrich or a bandwagon jumper, imo. it's one or the other. bargnani has been hitting jump shots at a much higher clip- so we can now safely pencil him in as the starting five and move possibly our top trade asset for next season?

i'm baffled. i've seen this story with andrea bargnani before, a dozen times... heck, more. haven't you? there is nothing new here. it's like leo rautins' criticism of missed jump shots and praise of made ones- it borders on the laughable. i was previously not upset that andrea was _missing_ jump shots, i was concerned that he was _taking_ them at all. he's changed somewhat in that respect, in that he doesn't settle quite as often as he once did, but it's hard to give credit for improvement when there was virtually nowhere else for him to go. 

anyway, this is about o'neal. if he's being dangled in trade talks, i'm at a loss for words. ignore the effect that it would have on this season or this team right now. what's important, imo, is the effect that it would have on next. jermaine o'neal may be *the* prize trade commodity in the league 12 months hence. think what rasheed wallace commanded in 2004. now consider a free agent class that includes lebron, dwyane, nash, bosh and, well, the all-star team in 2010. the point is that you can trade jermaine for substantially more later. this fact alone should end any trade talks today, imo.

i'm a strong supporter of jermaine's game. i would suggest that on balance, he's perhaps the most important raptor on the team right now. but this isn't about that. even if i couldn't stand the guy, my opinion would still hold firm: you don't move him now. it's like moving vince carter when we did; the timing couldn't be more wrong.

for the media to be handling this the way they are only goes to confirm my worst suspicions of the past. the common sense has been lost and replaced by some dangerous stand-in. we could have anticipated this "winning streak" (think about that for a second- _three out of four_ games) two months ago... and now that it's happened, somehow our concerns have been addressed? if that's true, then our recent complaints were never valid in the first place. it can't be both. i mean, i can't help feeling exactly the same as i felt before. they will beat memphis today and some (eg. paul johnson) will say, "they've turned a corner." the rest of us will be like, "they haven't turned a corner. they beat _memphis_." 

it's almost impossible to take any good (or bad) from these games right now. i'm still upset about the team reacting like it was a death in the family when the coach was fired (after a blowout loss in denver), chris bosh sulking in the immediate aftermath and the media complaining that they lost a drinking buddy- as if everything was fine while they were losing. i hear the fans who state the obvious, that the culture on this team is utterly diseased, and i can't help but nod my head. i feel you.

now we're getting the parade ready for when bargnani pulls down 6 rebounds versus the grizz, as if that would be some monumental achievement and could excuse his glacial progress to date.

i feel you. 

peace


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## lucky777s

you are right about the bandwagon jumpers. The Bargs Express is suddenly filled to capacity.

I liked the DAL trade that never was. I think you sell high on Bargs right now. But since BC seems determined NOT to trade Bargs that leaves us in a state of limbo and suggests we have to move JO if Bosh and Bargs are the tandem BC believes they are.

I disagree about how valuable expiring contracts are right now or next year. Most teams have already lined up their cap space for 2010. And realistically there are only about 6 or 7 teams that could attract any of the big 3 or 4 FAs. We are talking about NY, NJ, CHI, CLE, SAS, MIA, and maybe POR. Outside shot is DET. Those teams are done clearing cap space. For most other teams creating extra cap room is just a waste of time.

Marbury is an expiring piece this year. No interest in trades anywhere. Szerbiak is an expiring in CLE. They could probably move him but want the space themselves. Certainly no great trades offered for him.

The urgency in Toronto is winning next year. Bosh will not stay if we have another losing season next year. So holding on for some magical trade of JO next year is a bad gamble in my opinion. The latest you keep him is draft day. I just don't see us netting 2 starters that will put us into contender status for JO's expiring deal.

But if you deal him now for Gooden (7 mill expiring this year) and Hughes (13 mill expiring next year) you get more benefit. Hughes may be the best SG the Raps can get right now if JR Smith or Josh Howard are not available for our assets. And the Gooden money can be used for a full MLE pickup this year when not many teams are spending and we may be more able to land the top FA's. Plus the savings in total contracts may allow us to bring a Delfino or Hodge into the rotation next year. That could put us back into a top 4 seed next year with other teams not spending and waiting the year out. That is our only hope of keeping Bosh.

That is my logic on the move.


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## Mr_B

This team still needs a trade but I don't any of the options available right now outside Caron Butler


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## Dee-Zy

Caron is just a pipe dream, it never was an option.


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## Ruff Draft

Toronto is just too weak at positions 1-3. They need hard-nosed players, and another scoring punch. I don't think Calderon can light it up as much as they were hoping.


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## seifer0406

Yao Ming reportedly want Tmac traded. I wonder if O'neal for Tmac could be done. Yao, O'neal, Scola would be one of the better front court trios in the league.

If Tmac is willing to come back to Toronto he instantly solves our problems on the perimeter. On the injury front since they are both pretty injury prone it's quite even on both sides. Salary wise both expires after next season as well.


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## changv10

I wouldn't do O'Neal for TMac. All TMac has left is offense. His defense is gone ... its like he aged so much he doesn't even want to move anymore. Talent is there, but will is not ... too bad. 

O'Neal we have consistent shot blocker, a person that draws charges, a very good inside presence and a decent offensive presence. On top of that, off the court he's a great person too. McGrady is a back stabber.


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## seifer0406

But with Bargnani playing the way he is starting, would you put Bargnani back on the bench when O'neal comes back?


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## Junkyard Dog13

no u bring JO off th bench


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## ballocks

to me, andrea's streak has nothing to do with him starting. he started 50+ games last year, he started who knows how many games earlier this year- i mean, that can't possibly be the tonic. andrea had been given a shot at 3 positions whether as a starter or off the bench long before this streak began. 

honestly, i think he may have simply... umm... matured. it doesn't matter whether he's coming off the bench. maybe it's got something to do with how badly things have unraveled that led him to think, "you know what- what do i have to lose? why am i feeling any pressure at all? it's not leading us anywhere." or maybe that's just my wishful thinking! 

either way, i see no controversy with jermaine returning. i'm quite excited by it, actually. you've got 96 minutes for three players inside, two (JO, chris) of whom have shown they need more rest than most, and we've also seen that these guys can live together on the floor without too much trouble, which is where you can find some extra minutes for them (up to 35 mpg each), imo. 

i would give jermaine the starting nod but it wouldn't really matter. it's the kind of 'controversy' that people forget within days- and if andrea truly reverts to his old self coming off the bench, i would just see that as the perfect reason to finally move him. 

the key decision is who finishes games, of course, provided they don't go with the 3-big system. this is where i see the most promise as i'd like to think that this would change nightly depending on how well they're playing. if jay triano can somehow grow the nuggets to sit chris bosh down the stretch in games where he's struggling and jermaine and andrea are playing well together, i think that would only bode well for the future. we may not see the inconsistency that has sprouted from chris' game of late, the fruits of jack armstrong's much-ballyhooed _internal competition_. i think chris has been given too much rope, whether he knows it or not, and i think it's better for the future of this team that he not see himself as an untouchable anymore.

peace


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## seifer0406

ballocks said:


> to me, andrea's streak has nothing to do with him starting. he started 50+ games last year, he started who knows how many games earlier this year- i mean, that can't possibly be the tonic. andrea had been given a shot at 3 positions whether as a starter or off the bench long before this streak began.
> 
> honestly, i think he may have simply... umm... matured. it doesn't matter whether he's coming off the bench. maybe it's got something to do with how badly things have unraveled that led him to think, "you know what- what do i have to lose? why am i feeling any pressure at all? it's not leading us anywhere." or maybe that's just my wishful thinking!


That might be the case, but if I'm BC or Triano I wouldn't do anything, and I repeat, ANYTHING that would change either Bargnani's current role, minutes, position, etc. We've waited 2 1/2 years and it's finally started to work, I wouldn't make any change regarding Bargnani unless it's trading him(his stock hasn't been this high since his rookie year).

If he can keep this up for another month or 2 then maybe, just maybe we try to experiment with other things, but until then, he's staying put and continue with whatever he's doing.


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## Onions Baby

Triano said on RaptorsTV today that O'Neal's coming off the bench when he returns


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## a_i_4_life

Onions said:


> Triano said on RaptorsTV today that O'Neal's coming off the bench when he returns


when he returns?..........so next year?


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## RapsFan

Apparently Brad Miller and John Salmons are unhappy in Sacramento. Miller hasn't got much interest, so maybe we can get him for not much in return. They have Thompson and Hawes as their future post. Maybe we can also try getting Rip Hamilton from Detroit. This works:

*Toronto Trade Breakdown*
Change in Team Outlook: +10.8 ppg, +2.4 rpg, and +1.1 apg. 
*Incoming Players* 
Rasheed Wallace
6-11 PF / C from North Carolina
12.4 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.3 apg in 33.0 minutes 
Arron Afflalo
6-5 SG from UCLA
5.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.7 minutes 
Richard Hamilton
6-7 SG from Connecticut
16.7 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes 
*Outgoing Players* 
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
14.0 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.6 apg in 29.5 minutes 
Anthony Parker
6-6 SG / SF from Bradley
9.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.5 minutes 

Very unrealistic, I know.


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## Onions Baby

a_i_4_life said:


> when he returns?..........so next year?


He went through a full practice yesterday, might suit up tonight


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## lucky777s

If we had not given up so much to get JO (TJ, Rasho, and the draft pick) I would be more than happy to trade him for any expiring contract right now and just use the space to pick up a full MLE player this summer, or in a trade if we are under the first cap line. Marbury, Marion, Lafrentz (mlse would love that as insurance picks up the tab too), or whoever. Not being close to the tax line would also mean we could try out players like Julius Hodge or others who are capable wing scorers not in the nba right now.

But its hard to give up JO for basically nothing when you realize what we gave up to get him.


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## Dee-Zy

Rasho + TJ wasn't the problem, it is the draft pick. We could of have Hibbert come off the bench for JO/Bosh rather than Humphries


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## billfindlay10

Hibbert is not getting much burn in Indiana on a team with Rasho, Murphy, and Foster.....not sure he is all that good.


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## a_i_4_life

i thought we got back a 2nd round pick as well, did we not?


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## chocolove

a_i_4_life said:


> i thought we got back a 2nd round pick as well, did we not?


He that 2nd rounder was Nathan Jawai, who is out with heart problems.


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## billfindlay10

chocolove said:


> He that 2nd rounder was Nathan Jawai, who is out with heart problems.


I think Jawai is cleared to play, he just now needs to get into game shape so we can see what we have.


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## a_i_4_life

chocolove said:


> He that 2nd rounder was Nathan Jawai, who is out with heart problems.


oh, i thought we got another 2nd rounder


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## PaCeRhOLiC

billfindlay10 said:


> Hibbert is not getting much burn in Indiana on a team with Rasho, Murphy, and Foster.....not sure he is all that good.




He's not getting many minutes because O'Brien is a hard head and refuses to play rookies on a consistent basis even when they're having good games, also he's been committing a lot of stupid rookie fouls, but trust me Hibbert has shown promise, has had good nights both on defense and offense, and his potential in Indiana couldn't be brighter.


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## Mr_B

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> He's not getting many minutes because O'Brien is a hard head and refuses to play rookies on a consistent basis even when they're having good games, also he's been committing a lot of stupid rookie fouls, but trust me Hibbert has shown promise, has had good nights both on defense and offense, and his potential in Indiana couldn't be brighter.


Sounds like Larry Brown


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## -33-

http://www.basketballforum.com/miami-heat/419858-oneal-marion-banks-now-marion-banks-oneal.html

Lots of O'Neal to Miami rumors swirling...


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## a_i_4_life

DQ for 3 said:


> http://www.basketballforum.com/miami-heat/419858-oneal-marion-banks-now-marion-banks-oneal.html
> 
> Lots of O'Neal to Miami rumors swirling...


how do you see the trade as a Miami supporter?


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## -33-

a_i_4_life said:


> how do you see the trade as a Miami supporter?


If you take Banks, I'm completely for it. We desperately need a center, even if JO is on the down-side of his career, he's better than what we have. I'd love to get Moon back in the deal, since you'd have quite a few 3's on your team when you add Marion, but that might be asking too much. 

Toronto has seemed to have some sort of fascination with Dorell Wright over the past few years, so he could also become a piece in the deal.


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## seifer0406

I don't think Colangelo would take on Marcus Banks. If I'm not mistaken isn't Colangelo the guy who originally signed Banks to that horrendous contract? It'd be weird if Banks haunts Colangelo all the way up north.


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## BullsBaller

I hear JO for Marion + other valuable consideration. Is it a SF that JC wants? Because, I also hear Gooden??? from the Bulls + other valuable consideration, like Hughes. Do you need a C or SF or both? I guess I kind of understand why Gooden would be better than O'Neal for you b/c he can provide what you need in rebounds + few points that O'Neal provides, but for a cheaper price. However, if you need a legit C that provides size, then Gooden is not right for your team. He is not really a C and he is more like Bosh in the sense that he uses his quickness (relative to his opponent) to pop outside the paint and shoot midrange shots. 

If you do need both a C and SF, then what about JO for Josh Howard and Erik Dampier. It works in Trade Checker. I know what you are saying about Dampier. I understand his contract might be a pain, but it is up in 2 years and it is not like you need another superstar BIG since you have Bosh/Bargnani. He is a legit full sized C, especially in the East, plus he is averaging around 8 boards. Getting Howard will give you guys 3 legit superstars and it is better than not getting anything for JO by letting him walk.


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## seifer0406

Dampier's contract is 1 year longer than O'neal, I don't think Colangelo would do it simply due to this.

If I had to pick between Marion and the Dallas deal, I would do the Marion deal simply for contract reasons. I don't think our current season can be salvage at this point so at least we get the financial flexibility going into next year. If Bargnani can come into his own this season then the year isn't completely lost. Hopefully with a high pick and some cap space next year the Raptors can reload and be competitive again. A lot would depend on whether Bosh would be satisfied with such a plan and if BC can keep him in Toronto.

To be honest, if Wade can go through a season like last year and stay positive, I don't see why Bosh can't take a losing season.


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## kirk_2003

^i'm starting to think Bosh is soft.. 
physically and mentally..


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## Mr_B

JO nowhere to be found today not in the line-up or arena looks like the trade becoming a reality


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## kirk_2003

^kopono too.. a trade is happening very soon.. this is getting me more excited then the game itself.. wonder what it is.. this team needs help!


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## -33-

I was just about to post that....

It'll be interesting to see if Marion suits up later today in Oklahoma City

Also glad I bet on Phoenix, no JO/Kapono makes that bet even better!


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## kirk_2003

we better be getting more than just banks if we are doing the trade with miami.. banks contract is horrendous and he isnt even getting time for the heat..


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## UD40

If you take Banks off our payroll, I'll be in debt to the Raptors forever.


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## Damian Necronamous

Bosh/Bargnani/Marion/Parker/Calderon

That's a very solid lineup that could turn it on and win a lot of games in the remainder of the season. Great trade for Toronto.


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## Ruff Draft

The trade isn't bad for Toronto. Calderon is the kind of creator Marion needs, and Shawn can answer some of their defense/rebounding problems.


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## rdlviper

How about this talk of a deal with the Lakers? 



> All this chatter should also get other O'Neal suitors involved (or at least Bryan Colangelo would hope that would be the effect).
> Don't be surprised if Dallas (Josh Howard) or L.A. (Lamar Odom) somehow get involved and turn the discussions into a bigger, multi-team deal.





> A reliable source also told me that Lakers forward Lamar Odom (expiring this season) is another possibility in an O'Neal deal.The Lakers' Andrew Bynum has not played up to expectations this season (grabbed five rebounds combined in two recent games, isn't controlling the boards like he should) and Pau Gasol is an extremely soft big.
> 
> Odom and filler to make the salaries match (Mihm and a minimum contract?) would make some sense for both sides.
> L.A. could split its 96 frontcourt minutes between three effective bigs and overpower Western opponents (with Kobe waiting in the wings to decide any game).
> 
> Odom would keep the Raptors competitive and give them a multi-talented ball-handler who can create his own shot and shots for others. The team would have the cap space to go after a couple of solid free agents this off-season, when Odom, Anthony Parker, Jorge Garbojosa and Joey Graham come off the cap.
> 
> (Just wanted to add some more personal opinion to any O'Neal/Odom scenario. The Lakers would most likely insist the Raptors take Vladimir Radmanovic and his hefty contract instead of Mihm's expiring, which might be too big of a long-term commitment for Colangelo to take on. Ditto adding Luke Walton).


I wouldn't mind seeing Odom play alongside Bosh and Bargnani.


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## kirk_2003

let the speculation begin!


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## a_i_4_life

i think the Indiana game was the last one we'll be seeing J.O. in a raptors uni


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## Flash is the Future

seifer0406 said:


> Dampier's contract is 1 year longer than O'neal, I don't think Colangelo would do it simply due to this.
> 
> If I had to pick between Marion and the Dallas deal, I would do the Marion deal simply for contract reasons. I don't think our current season can be salvage at this point so at least we get the financial flexibility going into next year. If Bargnani can come into his own this season then the year isn't completely lost. Hopefully with a high pick and some cap space next year the Raptors can reload and be competitive again. A lot would depend on whether Bosh would be satisfied with such a plan and if BC can keep him in Toronto.
> 
> To be honest, if Wade can go through a season like last year and stay positive, I don't see why Bosh can't take a losing season.


Actually, Dampier's last year is unguaranteed. It would only become guaranteed if he plays in at least 30MPG in the 70 games in 2009-2010 in which he plays the most minutes. No one would pay him that much, so he's unguaranteed. Dallas wouldn't trade 2 starters for 1, though.


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## UD40

Marion didn't start, and idk if he's playing tonight vs. the Thunder.

Congrats, you guys have yourself the Matrix!


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## mo76

I want to see marion on the raptors, I have always liked him. 
Does anyone have any updates on this trade?
Please let this be real, lol.


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## lucky777s

I have to believe the trade is done and just waiting for the league office to open on Tuesday.

If not, then JOs knee is more serious than we thought and it may be impossible to trade him this year. For him to miss these last two games after a short comeback game would be a horrible development.

As for worrying about Marion's fit here.....who cares. He is an expiring contract. This season is over for the Raps. At best Marion would be auditioning for either a much smaller contract in the 7-8 mill range for 3-4 years, or maybe we just give him a 1 year deal at 15 mill and let him go the next summer if he makes a big difference for us. Can't see anyone else paying up for him this summer. Worst case and he is a dud for us. So we get lots of cap space and perhaps a better lotto pick.

Yes a JHoward or GWallace would be a better pickup but if those deals are not on the table we need to take this one.


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## seifer0406

Yeah, I have given up on this season. Marion would be great because he gives us contract relief. Hopefully we can get lucky and get a high pick this year and draft a wing with scoring ability.


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## kirk_2003

^harden? but id have to go with DeRozan.. he has freakish atheticism.. but knowing BC.. he'll go with Budinger..


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## Junkyard Dog13

rotoworld is saying JO will play tomm, so maybe a deel broke.


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## SickGame

DeRozan is too raw still, it'll take a couple of years to develop him.


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## lucky777s

Atlanta would have been a perfect game to showcase JO too. No inside D to speak of. We could have probably gotten him 25-30 points inside and opened the bidding right after the game.

Assuming he was in any kind of rhythm, which he was not in the last game he played. That stupid knee bump may be screwing up our entire off season.

Problem I see in dealing JO is that we are dealing with contenders. They cannot take a flier on him unless he is proven healthy, which he is not at this point. Lakers, DAL, and even MIA believe they can make some real noise in the playoffs and that quickly goes away if JO cannot play. They can't give up an Odom, Marion, Howard for nothing.

Best trade out there for us may be Marbury. He may even be more flexible on a buyout with us if we don't want to play him. Would not have to take a bad contract back with him like MIA wants. And he would be a good offensive 2 guard for us if we did want to play him this year.


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## NewAgeBaller

GP was asked by a fan on Game Time about the Raptors' situation and the JO/Matrix trade.

On the Raptors, he said he doesn't know exactly how to fix their problems, that they're just playing poorly right now. He said though that he thinks a series of trades isn't really gona fix things, its probably more a situation they just have to play through.

On the JO/Matrix trade, he said it could work well for Toronto, giving Bosh more space and freedom to operate downlow with Marion filling gaps and taking care of a lot of the 'garbage/hustle' type duties on the perimeter for the Raptors.


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## NewAgeBaller

An update from the Heat board -



> As the Miami Heat continues to consider a deal for Jermaine O'Neal, Miami has been giving thought to other Shawn Marion trade scenarios, including one involving Dallas small forward Josh Howard, according to an official involved in the Marion discussions. Several teams have inquired about Marion, who's unlikely to re-sign here, but it's not certain a deal will happen.
> 
> The Heat considers center its No. 1 need and O'Neal as the best center available but remains concerned about his sore right knee (which has sidelined him 11 games this season) and the $23 million he's due in 2009-10, the last year of his contract. *It's 50-50 whether Miami will accept Toronto's offer of O'Neal for Marion and Marcus Banks, the official said. The O'Neal camp is optimistic it will happen.*


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## kirk_2003

almost sounds like O'Neal wants out or something..


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## Junkyard Dog13

what has JO done to be pissed to want out, he has been what most non rap fans thought he would be, rusty, not the driver he was, constantly hurt.


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## billfindlay10

In less than 20 minutes last night he got to the line 8 times and shot 3-7. Not a great percentage, but drawing fouls on other teams bigs is a plus. Two more games where he is active and produces a bit and Miami might be happy enough with his health to make the trade......Marion only played 8 minutes last night.


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## a_i_4_life

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/87293-source-oneal-marion-trade-progressing


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## lucky777s

This Marcus Banks thing is getting me very worried that BC is going to keep Marion beyond this season and pay him way too much. That is BC's history.

Why else are we so focused on this MIA trade? The Marbury trade or even the Bulls trade for Gooden and Hughes makes more sense to me. Why are we willing to take Banks if Marion is not in the long term plan?

Signing Marion to a bad deal could be BC's last big screwup in TOR. Then its firing time.


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## billfindlay10

If Marion happens to work out over the final 30 games or so then he may be worth a look at resigning. I don't tink the market will be high for him as teams are keeping money for 2010. If he wants to sign a 3 year deal at realistic money I may be OK with that if he provides what we need. Bosh, Bargs, Calderon, this years lottery pick, and Marion gives a decent core. Add in Kapono, Jawai, Hump, Roko and Graham and that is the start of the 2009/2010 team....could be worse.


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## billfindlay10

One more thing!

Yes Banks is signed for two more seasons after this one, but that does not make him un-moveable. 4.8 mil is not that big a deal. Remember that O'Neals 23 million comes off the books.


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## lucky777s

Marion needs his offense handed to him on a silver platter, just like Kap and Moon do now. So not sure how that helps us on that end and takes any pressure of Bosh or Calderon down the stretch to create. Defensively he is an upgrade over what we have, but certainly not a stopper.

And don't assume we even keep our lotto pick, especially if it is a high one. We may be just as close to the luxury tax next year which will mean MLSE will tell BC to sell the pick or trade down to save that guaranteed contract. I believe that is what happened this summer - BC was giving away the pick to save money.

The overall MIA-TOR trade is going to be pretty close salary wise because MIA is also very cost conscious these days. So I don't think we benefit much from moving JO in that sense.

Signing Marion to 3yr/27 mill type deal, which is about the lowest I see him accepting from us, would hamstring us badly and ensure we don't have a big 2009 season. That would likely cost us Bosh as he will not sit through another year like this one without wanting out for good.

If we don't resign Parker his 4mill in savings is totally offset by raises to Bosh, Jose, Kap, and Bargs. And we still need to replace our best perimeter player. I don't see Parker signing for any less money given he can easily make that, or more, in Europe. We are not in a great spot at all, and BC has totally blown the rebuild process by settling for a quick fix with Euro vets like Garbo and Parker and giving away draft picks.

The better trade all around is Marbury. We could even save more cash by buying him out for 1 to 2 mill under his contract which MLSE would have a parade about. No lingering contracts. We have big flexibility this summer to make some bold moves via FA, trades, or buying draft picks.

But BC is fixated on Marion because of the PHX connection, just like Voskul and some of his other dumb signings.


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## NewAgeBaller

From the Heat board -



> TRADE TALK: A deal that would send Jermaine O'Neal to Miami and Shawn Marion to Toronto is progressing. *According to a league sources, the two teams have exchanged medical records, usually a precursor to a deal.* The Knicks had talked to Miami about a Marion-for-Eddy Curry deal, but Curry has appeared in only one game this season due to a knee injury.





> MIAMI - Medical papers have been swapped. The long view is being stressed. And Pat Riley's fetish for height remains unsated.
> 
> After the Miami Heat president commented for the first time in months about his team's personnel situation, it is difficult to take any view other than that a trade is in the works.
> 
> Speaking moments after center Alonzo Mourning announced his retirement, Riley said Thursday while he appreciates his team's current spot in the playoff race, long-term championship aspirations supersede current considerations.
> 
> "The point is that the big picture always trumps the present moment," he said. "While the present moment is important, I am not going to do something to take away from what I think we can see down the road."
> 
> *Riley stressed two goals: Maintaining his team's salary-cap flexibility for the 2010 offseason, when his own Dwyane Wade and others such as LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Amare Stoudemire could be free agents; and finding a post-up scoring presence to continue his team's lineage of Mourning and Shaquille O'Neal.*
> *
> "There's a lot of good things and I don't want to mess with that," he said of his team's current state. "I will do something that would help the team win now and also help the team in the future."*
> 
> *It is a future, Riley said, that has to transcend small ball, the Heat's current approach.
> 
> "I don't believe in that game," he said. "In the long run, I don't think that game's going to win you a title."*
> 
> *A move that could satisfy both objectives could be a trade of forward Shawn Marion to the Toronto Raptors for center Jermaine O'Neal, whose contract expires at the end of 2009-10.*
> 
> *Asked about the Heat and Raptors having swapped medical information on Marion and O'Neal, Riley said, "It doesn't make any difference. I could have made the same request to five other teams, also. That's just the normal process."*
> 
> Marion, who was forced to sit out the second half of Wednesday's loss to the Celtics with a troublesome left groin, was unable to practice Thursday and is questionable for Saturday's home game against the Magic.
> 
> "I've had long conversations with Shawn and with Dan," Riley said of agent Dan Fegan. "It's not a very comfortable time for anybody. I value Shawn Marion immensely. He is a tremendous player and I'm sorry that this is going on right now.
> 
> "Shawn Marion, right now, he's our second-best player on the team and I value him as that."
> 
> Others, however, value Marion for his $17.8 million expiring contract.
> 
> Riley said the glut of Marion, Udonis Haslem and first-round pick Michael Beasley at power forward is overstated.
> 
> "I think they've done very well," he said. "They're very versatile players."
> 
> The NBA trading deadline is Feb. 19. Riley declined to flatly rule out a move.
> 
> "If it happens, it happens," he said. "I'm just going to say that we're trying improve the team. There's a lot of players on our team that other teams have interest in."



Looks like things could be heating up!


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## Junkyard Dog13

After tonite's win, keep him, he did the dirty work well, just simple rebounds that when Bargs CB are on the floor they screw up,his positioning was good, his hustle was great a great option off the bench, if anything try to get rid of Moon, need a more stable starting SF, maybe someone low key that we can get for Moon maybe has a lil bad contract.

Any SF's ou there that someone would want to dump that = Moon's trade value?


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## billfindlay10

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> After tonite's win, keep him, he did the dirty work well, just simple rebounds that when Bargs CB are on the floor they screw up,his positioning was good, his hustle was great a great option off the bench, if anything try to get rid of Moon, need a more stable starting SF, maybe someone low key that we can get for Moon maybe has a lil bad contract.
> 
> Any SF's ou there that someone would want to dump that = Moon's trade value?


Moon does make any money.....he would not fetch anything on his own.....O'Neal's big contract has value and that is why the trade interest is around him.


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## lucky777s

Moon is a horrible defender, and that is supposed to be his big strength and reason for playing. He lets Kevin Martin just blow by him for another straight line drive, continues to go for every pump fake he sees, and then got the early hook for allowing wide open 3's to start the second half.

JO continues to play well and do everything we could have asked him to do. It was obvious the Raps were trying to force feed him down the stretch to pump up his numbers. Good. As much as we need to trade him in order to improve the wings we will still need to find a big who does the things that JO does to come off the bench. And that will not be easy. I think Toronto fans generally have a lot of respect for JO now and appreciate what he has brought. We just can't improve our wings with that contract on our books.


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## Tri$tateTx

WATCH OUT!


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## kirk_2003

for every 10 block shots.. sometimes you run into these..


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## NewAgeBaller

Latest updates are that Miami wants Moon in the deal, and TO is considering keeping JO off the bench.


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## seifer0406

The Raptors have some tough games up ahead. I think after the upcoming losing streak and with the trade deadline coming up this trade will be done at that time.


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## Mr_B

I wish they would hurry up and get it done already this has dragged on long enough


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## Junkyard Dog13

scrw it keep JO he seems to bring good 4 us asa back up 11/10, good D.
we ttrade him for Marion and we have no back up C


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## Dee-Zy

Dee-Zy said:


> Rasho + TJ wasn't the problem, it is the draft pick. We could of have Hibbert come off the bench for JO/Bosh rather than Humphries


****ING TOLD YOU SO.


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## seifer0406

The only thing that I can say is that we weren't the only team that missed out on Hibbert. If we re-do the draft Hibbert should've been drafted #4 right after Rose/Westbrook/Love.


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