# Allen Iverson Is The League Mvp!!



## walkon4

LETS HEAR the hating!!!!!!!!!!


ALLEN IVERSON IS THE LEAGUE MVP. IF you saw the game last night, you saw him telling the crowd that he was the MVP after making a shot..

ALLEN IVERSON CARRIES THE SIXERS LIKE NO OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA!!!!!

AI 4 MVP!!!


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## BallBiologist

mvp mvp...mvp


If t-mac doesn't get mvp, I hope A.I. does... or kobe (bah)


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## tmacistight

I don't think either will get it. But if Tmac doesnt get it, I hope AI does, hes second favorite player.


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## walkon4

*WELL*

Who does more for their team?

KOBE-NOOOO WAY. He has a whole supporting cast. If you think thats an MVP canidate, you are simply retarted. 

TMAC-He has much more of a team than Iverson. Although he is the best player on the team, he doesnt carry like AI.

Iverson does it all. He is the HARDEST playing athlete in the world of sports. He has more heart than anyone in professional sports. 

Pound for pound, Inch for inch, he is the best basketball player in the United States!!! or the world.

He is the MVP.


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## Naliamegod

AI isn't even the best player at his position in his conference late alone the best player in the NBA.


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## kcchiefs-fan

AI's probably 4th on my list. Just because he had one phenomenal game doesn't mean he's the MVP, the way Iverson plays I wouldn't be surprised to see him go 7-32 in their next game. And he does play awfully hard, but he's not as dedicated as guys like Kobe, Tmac, etc., seeing as he's publicly called out practice as not being important, and refuses to bulk up even a little bit. He's lazy off the court, on the court he's a beast. But he's not the hardest working player if he can't go both ways. Anyway, 4th, behind KG, Duncan, and Kobe. Maybe third, ahead of Kobe. But not ahead of Duncan or KG, once again, you can't base MVP off one game. Sure, Duncan blew it in Game 1, sure, the T-wolves got blown out. But you have to look at the year as a whole.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3

Allan Iversons amazing game in the playoffs has nothing to do with the regular season.
He isn't the MVP IMO.
How can you be an MVP to a team that didn't do better then 3rd place in their conference.

Tim Duncan is MVP.


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## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> Allan Iversons amazing game in the playoffs has nothing to do with the regular season.
> He isn't the MVP IMO.
> How can you be an MVP to a team that didn't do better then 3rd place in their conference.
> 
> Tim Duncan is MVP.


So with this thinking, this disqualifies TMAC, KG, and KOBE


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## walkon4

*Idiot*



> Originally posted by <b>Naliamegod</b>!
> AI isn't even the best player at his position in his conference late alone the best player in the NBA.


Lets hear it. Who is better in the conference at his position?

No name calling 

And to the person who said MVP for Tim Duncan.. hahahaha

Well Mr. MVP choked come crunch time on sunday.. 
an MVP plays up when it comes down to the wire, like Iverson.

Doesnt Choke and miss free throws late in the game.


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## walkon4

*1 more thing.*

The sixers wouldn't be in the 3rd spot without AI.

They would probably be collecting a lottery pic early in the draft.

Lebron would be a sixer.


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## kcchiefs-fan

*Re: Idiot*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> Lets hear it. Who is better in the conference at his position?
> 
> 
> And to the person who said MVP for Tim Duncan.. hahahaha
> 
> Well Mr. MVP choked come crunch time on sunday..
> an MVP plays up when it comes down to the wire, like Iverson.
> 
> Doesnt Choke and miss free throws late in the game.


Tmac and Pierce are both better than AI, and they pretty much play the same position. I don't see how he's an idiot, AI is not the best SG in the East. And, I also think Duncan is the MVP. You're basing this stuff off of one game. AI probably had the best game of his career, or one of them anyway, and Duncan had a poor game for him. Tim Duncan got an average team to the best record in the NBA in the toughest conference by far, MVP IMO. If not him, KG. You can't go off of one game. If the Sixers were in the West, they may not even be in the playoffs, if they were, they'd be gone in the first round without a doubt.


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## walkon4

*well*

Id say its important to base MVP canidates on their playoff performances.

That is usually the most important and crucial part of the year.

But wait, choking in the crunch time isnt a big deal..


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## BEEZ

*Re: Re: Idiot*



> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Tmac and Pierce are both better than AI, and they pretty much play the same position. I don't see how he's an idiot, AI is not the best SG in the East. And, I also think Duncan is the MVP. You're basing this stuff off of one game. AI probably had the best game of his career, or one of them anyway, and Duncan had a poor game for him. Tim Duncan got an average team to the best record in the NBA in the toughest conference by far, MVP IMO. If not him, KG. You can't go off of one game. If the Sixers were in the West, they may not even be in the playoffs, if they were, they'd be gone in the first round without a doubt.


Once again this more or less is topic that is either swayed by opinon and or here-say and the Sixers will never be in the west. I agree that if TD isnt the MVP then KG is.


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## tomonia2020

Final MVP Voting

1. T-Mac (best scorer; solid rpg; solid apg; 45% FG; carries team as much as the Answer)
2. Garnett (doesn't score enough)
3. A.I. (can't shoot like MVP, but improving)
4. Kobe (tied for best player; Shaq opens the floor though)
5. Duncan (overrated!!!; can't score enough; no assists; steals; has a pretty good supporting cast)

Others:
Stephon Marbury
Dirk
Shaq


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## JNice

*Re: WELL*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> TMAC-He has much more of a team than Iverson. Although he is the best player on the team, he doesnt carry like AI.


I actually agree with most of what you've said, but this statement is ludicrous.

Tmac carries way more than Iverson.


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## kcchiefs-fan

> Originally posted by <b>tomonia2020</b>!
> Final MVP Voting
> 
> 1. T-Mac (best scorer; solid rpg; solid apg; 45% FG; carries team as much as the Answer)
> 2. Garnett (doesn't score enough)
> 3. A.I. (can't shoot like MVP, but improving)
> 4. Kobe (tied for best player; Shaq opens the floor though)
> 5. Duncan (overrated!!!; can't score enough; no assists; steals; has a pretty good supporting cast)
> 
> Others:
> Stephon Marbury
> Dirk
> Shaq


Tmac doesn't carry his team as much as the answer, they're the 8 seed and AI is the 3rd seed. Ducan is not overrated, I don't remember his steals, but he gets 4 apg, damn good for a PF, and gets 23 ppg on like 17 shots, because EVERYBODY collapses on him. He's probably the best player in the league. The reason KG and Duncan, especially Duncan, don't score as much as Tmac, Kobe, Pierce, and AI, is because they don't always have the ball in their hand at the top of the key to make shots, they're down on the baseling double-triple teamed.

And Truth, it is important to judge off of post-season performances, but AI has had one game, let's wait a few games more. Duncan had played only one game, although it looks like there's a good shot they'll lose again. Anyway, they give out the MVP in like the second round, that's not long enough to base the MVP off of the post-season, so until the award is given out after the playoffs, the reg. season should be and is the most important factor in voting.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Tmac doesn't carry his team as much as the answer, they're the 8 seed and AI is the 3rd seed.


That just isnt true.

Look at AI's bigs vs Tmacs.. Coleman, Hill, Skinner, Kenny Thomas.. vs Gooden, DeClerq, Hunter, Kemp, Burke..

And KVH, Eric Snow, Aaron McKey...

Definitely not true pre-trade, and still not true post-trade..

No way AI should get MVP votes over Tmac.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3

*Re: Idiot*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> Lets hear it. Who is better in the conference at his position?
> 
> No name calling
> 
> And to the person who said MVP for Tim Duncan.. hahahaha
> 
> Well Mr. MVP choked come crunch time on sunday..
> an MVP plays up when it comes down to the wire, like Iverson.
> 
> Doesnt Choke and miss free throws late in the game.


 I really hate to break it to you but the MVP of the NBA is for the regular season. They don't consider playoffs when deciding MVP.


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## kcchiefs-fan

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> That just isnt true.
> 
> Look at AI's bigs vs Tmacs.. Coleman, Hill, Skinner, Kenny Thomas.. vs Gooden, DeClerq, Hunter, Kemp, Burke..
> 
> And KVH, Eric Snow, Aaron McKey...
> 
> Definitely not true pre-trade, and still not true post-trade..
> 
> No way AI should get MVP votes over Tmac.


I think AI carries his team more, but regardless, I don't think either of them should get MVP over KG or Duncan.


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## JNice

I agree. IMO it should go down -

Duncan
KG
Tmac
Kobe
AI


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## walkon4

*well*

I dont think so.

Every team's game plan when playing the sixers is one thing:
STOP Iverson.
Thats it.

When teams play Orlando, you cant leave Garrity, Armstrong, Giricek, or Drew Gooden uncontested.. They are all strong threats that can kill your team.

Iverson carries Philly.


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## JNice

*Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> I dont think so.
> 
> Every team's game plan when playing the sixers is one thing:
> STOP Iverson.
> Thats it.
> 
> When teams play Orlando, you cant leave Garrity, Armstrong, Giricek, or Drew Gooden uncontested.. They are all strong threats that can kill your team.
> 
> Iverson carries Philly.


You must not have watched a single Orlando regular season game, or the first game of the playoffs.


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## rocketeer

*Re: Re: Idiot*



> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> I really hate to break it to you but the MVP of the NBA is for the regular season. They don't consider playoffs when deciding MVP.


exactly. playoffs don't matter for mvp, so when you think about mvp these big game don't matter. the mvp will be duncan or garnett. i hope garnett, but i think it will probably be duncan.


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## shobe42

First of all TMAC is definatley a better player than Iverson. He can do probably better in every statistical category and hes 6'9"


--BUT--

to say McGrady is a better leader is crazy. 

Iverson probably has a better team than McGrady, but he also has them way better. I mean theyre 4th seed while Orlandos 8th.

To just go off and say McGrady is a better carrier is not fair to Iverson. Lets see TMAC take a team to the finals then talk.

Maybe he could, but the fact is that he hasn't 

I cant stand all this what if stuff.


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## Tenshi25

*Re: 1 more thing.*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> The sixers wouldn't be in the 3rd spot without AI.
> 
> They would probably be collecting a lottery pic early in the draft.


Blah blah blah...without Duncan the Spurs would be a lottery team. Without KG so would be the Twolves. Same for the Magic and T-Mac.

You're not gonna make a point with that logic, try something else.

By the way, I thought the MVP award refers to the regular season only, so what does it matter if AI scored 55 or 550?


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## IV

> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> LETS HEAR the hating!!!!!!!!!!


AI will finish no higher than 5th in the MVP voting.


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## walkon4

*Blah*

Oh come on man please.

You cant tell me a player having a big series in the playoffs would sway his likeliness of getting an award.

Lets be real here. If your trying to debate to pick between a few canidates, you cant tell me Playoffs arent looked at. If it was only the regular season, they would name the MVP after the season, and not after the playoffs. Sure theyll say they only look at MVP for the regular season, but we all know you cant resist thinking about a player by his playoff games, especially since they are the most crucial games!


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## IV

Okay, lets be real.

The MVP will be announced some time this week, do you really think that A.I. will be the winner or finish above Kobe, Tmac, KG, or Duncan?


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## Marcus13

Ya'll need to stop leaving Ben Wallace out of the MVP Discussions!


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## IV

*Re: Blah*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> Oh come on man please.
> 
> *You cant tell me a player having a big series in the playoffs would sway his likeliness of getting an award.*
> 
> Lets be real here. If your trying to debate to pick between a few canidates, *you cant tell me Playoffs arent looked at.* If it was only the regular season, they would name the MVP after the season, and not after the playoffs. Sure theyll say they only look at MVP for the regular season, but we all know you cant resist thinking about a player by his playoff games, especially since they are the most crucial games!


I feel it is my duty to inform you that the ballots for the MVP voting were due last Thursday at 3:00p.m. (last Thursday meaning before the playoffs began.) :grinning: 

Sorry man, what your guy does in the playoffs has nothing to do with winning the regular season MVP.


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## Tenshi25

*Re: Re: Blah*



> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> I feel it is my duty to inform you that the ballots for the MVP voting were due last Thursday at 3:00p.m. (last Thursday meaning before the playoffs began.) :grinning:
> 
> Sorry man, what your guy does in the playoffs has nothing to do with winning the regular season MVP.


That was exactly the point I wanted to made in my post. Fellas, this is MVP of the REGULAR SEASON.
Thanks for the help with the accurate information IV. :yes:


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## IV

No doubt, sometimes we have to speak the truth the these brothers who be tap dancing around the facts!


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## Tenshi25

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> No doubt, sometimes we have to speak the truth the these brothers who be tap dancing around the facts!


So true, so true...:yes:


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## walkon4

*well sory man*

Kobe is nowhere near the MVP of the League

He has a team supporting him. If Kobe was in Iverson's shoes, with nobody on his team they would be losing. Shaq makes the Lakers win. Kobe does not. 

The MVP is given to the player who does most for the team. Kobe gives a good amount, but doesnt need to give the amounts of Mcgrady, Garnett, Iverson, or even Ben Wallace for that matter.

If Kobe recieves the award, it will be a mockery, only for the reason he has a supporting cast.


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## rocketeer

the mvp will be either duncan or garnett. tmac has a slight chance. i really don't think kobe has any chance at mvp this year. he could be as high as 3rd in mvp voting, but won't win the thing. kobe and iverson will probably be 4th and 5th in the mvp voting.


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## TheRifleman

*Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> I dont think so.
> 
> Every team's game plan when playing the sixers is one thing:
> STOP Iverson.
> Thats it.
> 
> When teams play Orlando, you <b>cant leave Garrity, Armstrong, Giricek, or Drew Gooden </b>uncontested.. They are all strong threats that can kill your team.
> 
> Iverson carries Philly.



LOL! Look at their season averages and their career average and try to tell <b>anybody</b> that they are a <b><font size=4>Threat and can kill a team? </font> Please.</b>


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## digital jello

They are a threat and can kill a team. Averages don't matter.

They can go off on any given night. They don't do it often, which is why their averages are low (and you have pointed out for me), but when they do it's a killer.

AI carries his team moreso than McGrady. 

And Marcus, if Ben Wallace gets in the top 5 votes for MVP I'll give up all hope for our voters.


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## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>digital jello</b>!
> They are a threat and can kill a team. Averages don't matter.
> 
> They can go off on any given night. They don't do it often, which is why their averages are low (and you have pointed out for me), but when they do it's a killer.
> 
> AI carries his team moreso than McGrady.
> 
> And Marcus, if Ben Wallace gets in the top 5 votes for MVP I'll give up all hope for our voters.



Maybe a better way for me to say it is:

Look at their career <b>HIGH game</b> and then try to tell me that they can go off any night and kill a team? Don't do it often? You have that right - try like "never". I'd be shocked if any of them even approach 35 points for ONE game HIGH in their careers!! 35 points is killing another team - as in beating that team.


Maybe you and I just have a different criteria for what we consider to be one game where a player "kills" another team.


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## walkon4

*I dont*

I dont think Career HIGH means anything.

That is just a wrong thing to judge a player on. Doesn't a player have to get a career high at some point? I mean ANYONE in the NBA has the talent to drop a bomb on a team at some point.

They Wouldnt be in the NBA if they couldn't!!

And all those players I named can do some damage.. They are all really talented. 

:yes:


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>digital jello</b>!
> 
> AI carries his team moreso than McGrady.


How? Tmac has better stats, shooting a higher percentage, with a much worse supporting cast.

Tmac scores more, rebounds more, same assists, less turnovers, better 3pt shooter, higher fg%, more blocks... only stat AI is better in is steals. And Tmac does it in 3 less minutes a game.

That is just a ridiculous statement.


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## Jehuisthere

AI, KG, TD and TMac all carry their teams. Shaq and Kobe need each other cuz I dont think the Lakers supporting cast is good enuf that just one of em could carry em.....


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## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> How? Tmac has better stats, shooting a higher percentage, with a much worse supporting cast.
> 
> Tmac scores more, rebounds more, same assists, less turnovers, better 3pt shooter, higher fg%, more blocks... only stat AI is better in is steals. And Tmac does it in 3 less minutes a game.
> 
> That is just a ridiculous statement.


I dont know Dee Bo, the sixers may have more bodies but the simple fact of the matter is, Drew Gooden will be a star in this league. Giricek can create his own shot and shoot the ball, even though this trade happened in the 2nd half of the season. Also Orlando has more shooters than Philadelphia does. So its not that rediculous of a statement, and Tmac has only scored more than AI this season. While this may continue to happen 1 season doesnt constitue rediculousness in his post


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## Jehuisthere

lest we forget, AI has 3 scoring titles and Tmac has 1 and AI also has a higher lifetime scoring average.....


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont know Dee Bo, the sixers may have more bodies but the simple fact of the matter is, Drew Gooden will be a star in this league. Giricek can create his own shot and shoot the ball, even though this trade happened in the 2nd half of the season. Also Orlando has more shooters than Philadelphia does. So its not that rediculous of a statement, and Tmac has only scored more than AI this season. While this may continue to happen 1 season doesnt constitue rediculousness in his post


Drew Gooden WILL BE a star. Giricek CAN create shots.

Gooden will be very good, but they didnt even have him much this season. And Gircek has been good, but he is very inconsistent.. he can get 20 one game and 5 the next.

Orlando might have more shooters (not by much), but Philly's All-around team is MUCH better than Orlando's... 

No way AI carries his team more, no way. Whether you like stats or not, they win the argument for Tmac.

Dont get me wrong, I love Iverson and what he does at his size is nothing short of amazing, but he cant do all the things Tmac can. If Iverson were 6'6" or 6'7", he'd probably be the greatest player on the planet, but he isnt.


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## IV

*Re: well sory man*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> Kobe is nowhere near the MVP of the League
> 
> He has a team supporting him. If Kobe was in Iverson's shoes, with nobody on his team they would be losing. *Shaq makes the Lakers win. Kobe does not.*
> 
> The MVP is given to the player who does most for the team. Kobe gives a good amount, but doesnt need to give the amounts of Mcgrady, Garnett, Iverson, or even Ben Wallace for that matter.
> 
> If Kobe recieves the award, it will be a mockery, only for the reason he has a supporting cast.


Spoken like a true hater!


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## walkon4

*yah man*

thats right man, Im a Kobe hater.. You figured me out.

YOU KNOW that Shaq Makes the Lakers win. There is no ANSWER for Shaq. Without Shaq, CYA Lakers!!!


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## IV

*Re: Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! Look at their season averages and their career average and try to tell <b>anybody</b> that they are a <b><font size=4>Threat and can kill a team? </font> Please.</b>


That's the same thing you were saying about Tmac's lack of a supporting cast last year....... the team that had Troy Hudson who lit it up last night. You can't give anyone any respect in Orlando but Tmac, even after Drew Gooden in his NBA playoffs debut goes out and give you 18-14. :nonono:


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## walkon4

*I agree*

ANY player can mess u up on any given night!


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## IV

*Re: yah man*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> thats right man, Im a Kobe hater.. You figured me out.
> 
> YOU KNOW that Shaq Makes the Lakers win. There is no ANSWER for Shaq. Without Shaq, CYA Lakers!!!


Why single Kobe out? We weren't even talking about Kobe..... If you could be more objective you'd see how Kobe had a much better year that Shaq. That's not even disputable.


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## shobe42

*You do realize*

that if TMAC and AI were in the west with their teams MVP and their names wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath, because instead of being these quality leaders they would both have teams hovring around 30 wins.

The point being that they should not be the MVP, b/c they are in the east. Leading a team to 7th and 4th in the east is not a big deal. That pretty much means they have a bad team.


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## walkon4

*Ok..*

Well what I said is true. Shaq Makes the Lakers. Lets just admit that now man.

Kobe can do many things.. BUT NONE can do what Shaq does for the Lakers. 

Shaq is the most dominant player in the world. NOBODY can stop Shaq. Kobe is an amazing player, but come on dude.


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## IV

*Re: Ok..*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> Well what I said is true. Shaq Makes the Lakers. Lets just admit that now man.
> 
> Kobe can do many things.. BUT NONE can do what Shaq does for the Lakers.
> 
> Shaq is the most dominant player in the world. NOBODY can stop Shaq. Kobe is an amazing player, but come on dude.


Shaq is an amzing dude. No one can stop him, he maybe the most dominant player, but Kobe is also unstoppable. The only way you can stop either of them is a double team, or shadow. 

I dont understand how people can underestimate Kobe the way you do. I figure its just hatred......... So no big deal. Do your thang. Just to keep it real, Kobe *and* Shaq make the lakers.


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## walkon4

*nah*

You still dont understand what Im saying. Maybe im not clear.

-KOBE is an amazing player. I feel he is top 3 in the league. I absolutely Love Kobe's game. He makes it look easy. I am a Kobe fan as well.

Im just trying to say that Shaq makes the whole Laker team better. Therefore, Kobe shouldnt be MVP. I just dont see Kobe carrying the Lakers like Shaq. I feel that the Laker success depends on Shaq, as well as the supporting cast, and not just Kobe.

Dont me wrong. Kobe is phenomonal. I Love K-O-B-E.
(I even named my yellow lab after him haha)

Im just saying I think a mvp carries the team. and doesnt have a supporting cast. ex-Iverson, Mcgrady. KG


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## Bloop

> thats right man, Im a Kobe hater..





> I am a Kobe fan as well.


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## IV

*Re: nah*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> You still dont understand what Im saying. Maybe im not clear.
> 
> -KOBE is an amazing player. I feel he is top 3 in the league. I absolutely Love Kobe's game. He makes it look easy. I am a Kobe fan as well.
> 
> Im just trying to say that Shaq makes the whole Laker team better. Therefore, Kobe shouldnt be MVP. I just dont see Kobe carrying the Lakers like Shaq. I feel that the Laker success depends on Shaq, as well as the supporting cast, and not just Kobe.
> 
> Dont me wrong. Kobe is phenomonal. I Love K-O-B-E.
> (I even named my yellow lab after him haha)
> 
> Im just saying I think a mvp carries the team. and doesnt have a supporting cast. ex-Iverson, Mcgrady. KG


I understand you; I just dont agree.

Every MVP has a supporting cast. The supporting cast is the rest of the team. 

The Kobe and Shaq thing is riddling me because you refuse to acknowledge the impact Kobe had this year, and he turned things around for LA, not Shaq. 

Dont misinterpret what I'm saying. I'm not arguing that Kobe is the MVP. Rather, I am arguing against your reasons for him not being MVP.


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## Venom110

Since when does an MVP not have a supporting cast? Malone had Stockton, Jordan had Pippen, Shaq had Kobe, Bird had McHale, Magic had Kareem and Worthy, etc. Even more importantly, how many players make up a supporting cast? Its too abstract to make or break someone's case for league MVP.


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## UKfan4Life

*Re: Re: WELL*



> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> I actually agree with most of what you've said, but this statement is ludicrous.
> 
> Tmac carries way more than Iverson.


:yes: 

Iversons got Eric Snow and Keith Van Horn-both very good players. Tmac definitley carries more.


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## walkon4

*haha*

since when is Eric Snow a good player?

I think hes the worst starting PG in the League..

You cant tell me that eric snow is good, in NBA standards..


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## BEEZ

*Do you realize*



> Originally posted by <b>shobe42</b>!
> that if TMAC and AI were in the west with their teams MVP and their names wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath, because instead of being these quality leaders they would both have teams hovring around 30 wins.
> 
> The point being that they should not be the MVP, b/c they are in the east. Leading a team to 7th and 4th in the east is not a big deal. That pretty much means they have a bad team.


This is all heresay,because what you are saying will never happen. This is something YOU or I dont know for fact and is all speculation. To say a player should not be considered for MVP consideration because they play in the East is ridiculous. These statements werent being made when the East was dominating the West. Its one thing to show bias to a player and or a team but this makes no sense at all


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## UKfan4Life

Shaq and Kobe make the Lakers. Kobes an all around good player, and Shaq is devastating down low. Now lets keep in mind, Shaq has no basketball skill. He's all about muscle. His ridiculous strength and his big size and his heaviness are what make him unstoppable down low. Kobe actually has skill-tons of it. I like both Iverson and Kobe equally, but if I was a coach of a team and needed a shooting guard and my 2 choices were either Kobe or AI, I'd take the logical answer and pick Kobe.


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## walkon4

*well*

see I disagree there.

I used to think he was just muscle. But he has a helluva amount of Athletic Ability. He runs the floor nice, nice occasional post moves, and is strong, and to me that is an aspect of Athletism, when used on the basketball floor like he does.

A perfect example of someone with 0% athletic ability is Dekembe!!!

He is a joke!!


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## digital jello

*Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> see I disagree there.
> 
> I used to think he was just muscle. But he has a helluva amount of Athletic Ability. He runs the floor nice, nice occasional post moves, and is strong, and to me that is an aspect of Athletism, when used on the basketball floor like he does.
> 
> A perfect example of someone with 0% athletic ability is Dekembe!!!
> 
> He is a joke!!


Dikembe isn't that bad. Teams still go after him, don't they? The guy is stiff as hell, but he's 7-2 and a presence on the defensive end and on the boards.

Shaq's probably the strongest to ever play the game, so yeah, muscle is a huge part of his game. Why wouldn't it be? But yeah, Shaq is definitely not just some big strong guy who plays basketball. That's Michael Robotokandi. Shaq's got skills.


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## JNice

*Re: haha*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> since when is Eric Snow a good player?
> 
> I think hes the worst starting PG in the League..
> 
> You cant tell me that eric snow is good, in NBA standards..


Nope, try Jacque Vaughn.


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## BEEZ

*Re: haha*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> since when is Eric Snow a good player?
> 
> I think hes the worst starting PG in the League..
> 
> You cant tell me that eric snow is good, in NBA standards..


Plenty teams would want Eric Snow on they're team


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## UKfan4Life

*Re: haha*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> since when is Eric Snow a good player?
> 
> I think hes the worst starting PG in the League..
> 
> You cant tell me that eric snow is good, in NBA standards..


Since when was Eric Snow a good player? Since he adapted to how you're supposed to play in the NBA.

Yes I can tell you Snow is a good player in NBA standards, watch:

Eric Snow is a good player in NBA standards. There.


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## rocketeer

*Re: haha*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> since when is Eric Snow a good player?
> 
> I think hes the worst starting PG in the League..
> 
> You cant tell me that eric snow is good, in NBA standards..


not only is eric snow a good nba player, but he is a perfect complement to iverson. he is the perfect pg to have if iverson is on your team.

look, both teams have decent supporting casts(not great but good enough to get the job done in the east). they are about equal casts. i would take iverson over tmac, but that really doesn't matter. the mvp won't be won by either of them. it is going to be duncan or garnett.


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## walkon4

*which team would want him*

that has a worse PG

thats some stupid answers

he is horrible


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## BEEZ

*Re: which team would want him*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> that has a worse PG
> 
> thats some stupid answers
> 
> he is horrible


I didnt know avg 13 pts and 7assts, while being one of the top 5 on the ball defenders in the league is horrible.

Lakers
Denver
Minnesota
Clippers
Indiana
Cleavlend
Atlanta
Washington
Orlando
Knicks
Celtics
Heat

If thats not enough teams for you then whoa. I am not sure if I want you evaluating talent for me


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## UKfan4Life

*Re: which team would want him*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> that has a worse PG
> 
> thats some stupid answers
> 
> he is horrible


To me it sounds like you're basing his talent off showcase. Iverson gets the statistics and showcases it making it obvious. Snow just gets the statistics but doesn't showcase it. You need to pay more attention to statistics. Remember, Snow is a PG, he's not supposed to be scoring, hes supposed to be making the plays. As mentioned before, hes a great complement to Iverson, who is a SG, and having said that, Snow is a great PG because he does what a PG is supposed to do.


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## shobe42

*Re: Do you realize*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> This is all heresay,because what you are saying will never happen. This is something YOU or I dont know for fact and is all speculation. To say a player should not be considered for MVP consideration because they play in the East is ridiculous. These statements werent being made when the East was dominating the West. Its one thing to show bias to a player and or a team but this makes no sense at all


Its not a bias at all. I think everyone here can admit that the east is far superior. I doubt there has ever been this large a difference between conferences. 

With that said I dont think McGrady or Iverson are great carriers of their team and cause of that should not be MVPs. 
I mean to say, you have to look at who they are beating and remember that they would be far inferior in the west. I mean the Magic barely made the playoffs in the east. What the hell do you think would happen to them out West.


So sure TMAC is probably more valuable to his team than Kobe, but the Magic are so damn bad what difference does it make.

Same can be said about Iverson.


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## JNice

*Re: Re: haha*



> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> 
> not only is eric snow a good nba player, but he is a perfect complement to iverson. he is the perfect pg to have if iverson is on your team.
> 
> look, both teams have decent supporting casts(not great but good enough to get the job done in the east). they are about equal casts. i would take iverson over tmac, but that really doesn't matter. the mvp won't be won by either of them. it is going to be duncan or garnett.


In no way, shape, or form are their supporting casts equal or even close to being equal.

Tonights Orlando game showed more than ever how much Tmac carries that team. Without Tmac, Orlando loses that game by 60.


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## shobe42

its not that I dont like these players and am being blinded by bias. 
I have defended Iverson since he was a brash rookie dissing the veterans 
and I enjoy watching Tmac play as much as anybody, but Kobe.

I still think TMAC is the third best player in the league w/ 4th being far behind, and if you want to say hes better than Kobe I disagree but you probably got a good argument for it.

I just dont think they should be MVP b/c their teams are just too bad.


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## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>shobe42</b>!
> its not that I dont like these players and am being blinded by bias.
> I have defended Iverson since he was a brash rookie dissing the veterans
> and I enjoy watching Tmac play as much as anybody, but Kobe.
> 
> I still think TMAC is the third best player in the league w/ 4th being far behind, and if you want to say hes better than Kobe I disagree but you probably got a good argument for it.
> 
> I just dont think they should be MVP b/c their teams are just too bad.


AS I stated before, it doesnt matter if the east is weak or not. They are going against NBA caliber players every single night, for you not to recognize this and overlook this shows bias. And for you to say they are not strong carriers of they're teams make no sense whatsoever. I know Iverson and Tmac haters that wouldnt even make this statement


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## IV

As a Laker fan, I dont not want Eric Snow on our team. He doesn't shoot well enough to fit into the offense. But he is an excellent defender, he's strong, and I believe he doesn't commit many turnovers. He's a very good point guard, just not right for LA.


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## JazzMan

Here's my criteria for assessing potential MVPs:

In order of importance:

1) Consistent top-level performances in at least 2 major categories, including scoring
2) Team reaches playoffs
3) Clear case for player being best on his team
4) Team has top 4 playoff seeding
5) Proven clutch performer/game winner

Tie breakers (no particular order):
* Quality of opposition faced (East vs West)
* Winning record
* Statistical achievements (triple-doubles, 12 x 3s etc)
* Versatility (number of categories appearing in)

Usign these criteria, Tim Duncan and KG come out on top. AI would fall down in the tie-breakers. Kobe falls down because he has Shaq (27PPG is not a "supporting cast"). Tmac suffers because of his team's record.

This is how I think the GM's see it. I personally think that top 4 seeding should not be so important. Tmac is clearly as valuable as TD and KG to his team, but has not been able to do so much on a team level.


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## IV

> Originally posted by <b>JazzMan</b>!
> 3) Clear case for player being best on his team


This can cause contraversy. Who is the better player? Moses Malone or Dr. J? Kareem or Magic? I ment these four because each of them won a league MVP while playing with their respective teammate. 



> Proven clutch performer/game winner


Shaq has won the MVP and everbody knows LA's clutch performer/game winner is Kobe. 



> Kobe falls down because he has Shaq (27PPG is not a "supporting cast").


That never stopped Bill Russell, Magic, Kareem, Larry Bird, Jordan or Wilt from winning an MVP and they all played with other hall of famers(hall of famer are not exactly supporting cast are they?)


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## JazzMan

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> This can cause controversy. Who is the better player? Moses Malone or Dr. J? Kareem or Magic? I ment these four because each of them won a league MVP while playing with their respective teammate.


I agree this can be controversial. I don't know enough about the NBA in the 70s and 80s to be able to comment. All I will say is that it is far from clear which of kobe/Shaq is MVP for the Lakers, which makes it harder to argue for them being league MVP. But not impossible.




> Shaq has won the MVP and everbody knows LA's clutch performer/game winner is Kobe.


Shaq was far more dominant that year (99/00). Kobe was becoming great but was not as valuable then as SHaq is now.




> That never stopped Bill Russell, Magic, Kareem, Larry Bird, Jordan or Wilt from winning an MVP and they all played with other hall of famers(hall of famer are not exactly supporting cast are they?)


Fair point. But there are numerous HOFers who were never MVP candidates too.

The beauty is that when it comes down to it, it's just about the opinion of those who get to vote.

I just hate it when people confuse MVP for Best Players. They are not the same thing.


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## IV

> Originally posted by <b>JazzMan</b>!
> Shaq was far more dominant that year (99/00). Kobe was becoming great but was not as valuable then as SHaq is now.


I agree, Shaq was much more deserving. I just challenged the point that you have to be the clutch guy because even then Kobe was the lakers 4th quarter man. He won a lot of close games for them that year.



> Fair point. But there are numerous HOFers who were never MVP candidates too.
> 
> The beauty is that when it comes down to it, it's just about the opinion of those who get to vote.
> 
> I just hate it when people confuse MVP for Best Players. They are not the same thing.


I feel you man. It would be nice if the NBA would implement a MOP award at the end of the season for the leagues Most Outstanding/Best player.


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