# I hate Canzano, but....



## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

This little blurb on his blog sums up just about all my frustrations with this state and most of it's inhabitants:



> I think Oregon needs to raise expectations. Not just the program. The state. I've only been here five years, but I've never been around more people content with mediocrity.


From the sports teams, to the polititions, to the local business interests, to the schools, there's a maddening lack of killer instinct and vision in this state, and I'm sick of it. For all our boasting about being "World Class" and our own inferiority complexes about not being percieved as as good as our neighbors to the north or south, Oregon certainly doesn't have the track record of going out on limbs and reaching for greatness, and occassinally grabbing it.

Yeah, you might call me a hater or a raving loon, or that I just don't understand Oregon and the things that we find important as opposed to other places which don't have near what we offer in terms of livability or opportunities. I just see so much more potential in this state and it's people than what exists today, and I don't see anyone grabbing the state by the throat and leading it to the height of it's capabilities.


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

chris_in_pdx said:


> This little blurb on his blog sums up just about all my frustrations with this state and most of it's inhabitants:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think of myself as wanting mediocrity, but mostly what I want from
teams from Oregon is to represent the state well. This doesn't just mean
winning, but winning IS important, just not the most important.

The worst moment in sports for me was the Tonya Harding thing. I was really
embarrassed because, like it or not, she's an ambassador for the state.
I also probably take more pride than I should that certain Blazers (like
Maurice Lucas) make their home in Oregon.

I don't know if that's how others in the state feel, but that's me.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

actually, with the assisted suicide and medicinal marijuana laws, I think of Oregon as being pretty far-reaching at times. the whole eminent domain thing appears to be a fiasco, but at least it was fairly innovative. (I know that us Idahoans learned a lot from your example on that one.) 

speaking of Idaho, Oregon may be mediocre compared to California and Washington in many ways, but if you look at yourselves horizontally instead of vertically, you guys are light years ahead of us and most other Rocky Mountain states. you have two political parties and a few decent public universities, at least. 

in fact, I'd say Oregon is one of the finest, most cutting edge states in the country for its longitude. certainly west of the Mississippi.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Canzano said:


> I think Oregon needs to raise expectations. Not just the program. The state. I've only been here five years, but I've never been around more people content with mediocrity.


We need to find out about the previous places he's been, and how they got managed to get rid of his mediocrity.

barfo


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

barfo said:


> We need to find out about the previous places he's been, and how they got managed to get rid of his mediocrity.
> 
> barfo


Haha, true.

I consider it a compliment that Oregon isn't what Canzano considers great.


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## TLo (Dec 27, 2006)

Did you guys see that Canzano won an award for sportswriting recently. I think he was rated as the 2nd best sportswriter in the nation by the AP.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I love this state and I really can't see myself living anywhere else and being as happy as I am now. All this talk about Oregon not being 'revolutionary' enough and blah blah blah is ridiculous.

If you like living in an ant colony, move to California.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

mook said:


> actually, with the assisted suicide and medicinal marijuana laws, I think of Oregon as being pretty far-reaching at times. the whole eminent domain thing appears to be a fiasco, but at least it was fairly innovative. (I know that us Idahoans learned a lot from your example on that one.)
> 
> speaking of Idaho, Oregon may be mediocre compared to California and Washington in many ways, but if you look at yourselves horizontally instead of vertically, you guys are light years ahead of us and most other Rocky Mountain states. you have two political parties and a few decent public universities, at least.
> 
> in fact, I'd say Oregon is one of the finest, most cutting edge states in the country for its longitude. certainly west of the Mississippi.


The assisted suicide law is an Oregon innovation, at least in this country, and it's a pretty good one. Oregon is one of a number of states now with medicinal marijuana exemptions, so there isn't too much unique about that.

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "eminent domain". That's written in the US Constitution, and is not from Oregon. If you are referring to land-use planning, that was an Oregon invention, and has been such a fiasco that states all over the country have copied it.

Today's Oregonian also has an article about a powerful group of legislators pushing for a program to cover all uninsured people in the state, which would also be a first for the nation. We already have the Oregon Health Plan, which for all the bad press it gets is still seen as a good model for distributing finite state health care dollars to those greatest in need, and has also been copied by other states.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder; what exactly is Oregon not doing well?


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

chris_in_pdx said:


> From the sports teams, to the polititions, to the local business interests, to the schools, there's a maddening lack of killer instinct and vision in this state, and I'm sick of it. For all our boasting about being "World Class" and our own inferiority complexes about not being percieved as as good as our neighbors to the north or south, Oregon certainly doesn't have the track record of going out on limbs and reaching for greatness, and occassinally grabbing it.



If you consider "our neighbors to the south" as great, I don't want Oregon to have ANYTHING to do with greatness. I am UNfortunate enough to live in the San Francisco bay area right now, but grew up in Bend, OR. Let me say that I hope Oregon NEVER becomes anything close to what California is today. I think what makes Oregon great is the fact that we aren't like our "neighbors to the south". :cheers:


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

I think Canzano was strictly speaking about sports on a statewide level.
But if you aren't happy with Oregon in general either get involved and try and fix whatever your problem is, or leave so housing costs level off


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

chris_in_pdx said:


> This little blurb on his blog sums up just about all my frustrations with this state and most of it's inhabitants:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Canzano is just being himself. Stirring trouble.

Oregon is what it is because it is Oregon.

Complain that Oregonian's or their institutions aren't like people in other states is DUH dumb. Of course they are different. Just like the people in other states are different.

If Oregon had a "killer instinct" like in some other states, then Oregon wouldn't be like Oregon any longer. It would be a lot more like the other states.

You can't separate out the component parts. You will get the bad with the "good". I put "good" in highlights because it is a very Oregonian thing to debate whether the results of having a "killer instinct" is a worthwhile path and goal.

Even those who support unbridled ambition admit that there are downsides, they just claim the possible results are worth it.

If you give a person a gun, train them how to use it to kill, socialize them to be ready to kill, don't expect them to be happy sweeping floors or breeding puppies. Pushing for a "killer instinct" means your are raising a bunch of "killers".

The stentch of money grubbing bull****ters permeates the air of places like Los Angeles. Those that can't stand the smell any longer and have the means sometimes move to places like Oregon, precisely BECAUSE it is different.

Why the hell did Canzano come here? Coulda stayed in California, a place filled with ambitious, hard driving folk, just like he admires.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

chris_in_pdx said:


> This little blurb on his blog sums up just about all my frustrations with this state and most of it's inhabitants:
> 
> From the sports teams, to the polititions, to the local business interests, to the schools, there's a maddening lack of killer instinct and vision in this state, and I'm sick of it. For all our boasting about being "World Class" and our own inferiority complexes about not being percieved as as good as our neighbors to the north or south, Oregon certainly doesn't have the track record of going out on limbs and reaching for greatness, and occassinally grabbing it.
> 
> Yeah, you might call me a hater or a raving loon, or that I just don't understand Oregon and the things that we find important as opposed to other places which don't have near what we offer in terms of livability or opportunities. I just see so much more potential in this state and it's people than what exists today, and I don't see anyone grabbing the state by the throat and leading it to the height of it's capabilities.


Oregon mediocre? Coming from a guy who moved here from friggin Fresno, I'll take that as a major compliment.

I've been a lot of places and I'd live nowhere else but Oregon. We don't want to be California or Washington or New York or Paris or whatever. If I wanted the **** they have in those other places, I'd live there. And achieving those things would probably come at the expense of livability/lifestyle/etc and we'd be pale imitations of the places we would emulate. No thanks. If you want to perceive that as mediocrity, then you're wrong. The state is doing very well without the thumbs up from John Canzano.

I'd encourage anyone who doesn't like it here to either A) do something about it or B) vote with your feet and move the **** out of my state. Preferably B.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

Fork said:


> Oregon mediocre? Coming from a guy who moved here from friggin Fresno, I'll take that as a major compliment.
> 
> I've been a lot of places and I'd live nowhere else but Oregon. We don't want to be California or Washington or New York or Paris or whatever. If I wanted the **** they have in those other places, I'd live there. And achieving those things would probably come at the expense of livability/lifestyle/etc and we'd be pale imitations of the places we would emulate. No thanks. If you want to perceive that as mediocrity, then you're wrong. The state is doing very well without the thumbs up from John Canzano.
> 
> I'd encourage anyone who doesn't like it here to either A) do something about it or B) vote with your feet and move the **** out of my state. Preferably B.


I chose "B." I was tired of people trying to make me feel bad for being successful moneterily. There should be no shame in striving to be successful, and then actually enjoying it. In Oregon I was ridiculed for having a nice SUV, a nice big house and for not wanting to give it away to every meth head panhandler on the Portland streets or in excessive taxes that support all the transplanted Californians pet social burden. You can keep your social experiments and state bankrupting ways. I'lljust visit friends and family now and again and pay the hotel tax to help supplement clean needles for your heroin addicts.


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> The assisted suicide law is an Oregon innovation, at least in this country, and it's a pretty good one. Oregon is one of a number of states now with medicinal marijuana exemptions, so there isn't too much unique about that.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "eminent domain". That's written in the US Constitution, and is not from Oregon. If you are referring to land-use planning, that was an Oregon invention, and has been such a fiasco that states all over the country have copied it.
> 
> ...


OT - 
Oregon has essentially repealed the bottle bill. By remaining at
a nickel, which it was in the 70s. No one really gives a rip about
throwing away a nickel any more.


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## ehizzy3 (Jun 12, 2006)

sorry im young, whats the rules for suicide and medical marijuana? are they absurd or something?? and i love it here in oregon and i will live here for almost all of my life....


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

I lived in Oregon for my formative years, and I loved it for the physical beauty and serenity. I still am thrilled by these things, but I am always frustrated whenever I come back to visit. Everything is slower: people drive slowly, they talk slowly, and above all, they think slowly. It is a state with only one viable political party, and an inbred assumption that anything that limits peoples' freedom and/or raises taxes is progressive and good. Portland's zoning laws that force everyone to live cheek-to-jowl, and the traffic policy that is designed to make it impossible to get from A to B in a reasonable time in one's car make me crazy every time I come through. In any event, I spend a lot more time in a car in Oregon than I do Back East, and who enjoys that? 

I can see why people like it in Oregon. I love visiting, enjoying the scenery, and going out back to squeeze off a few hundred rounds. It is a great place to raise kids so they spend a lot of time outdoors. But having lived in the UK for 10 years, and now on a relatively tame part of the East Coast, I cannot tolerate Oregon for long. I want to accomplish things before I die, not just congratulate myself on living the good life.

iWatas


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## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

Iwatas said:


> I want to accomplish things before I die, not just congratulate myself on living the good life.


An absolutely brilliant statement. You just summed up my entire argument about the mindset of most Oregonians. Bravo.


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

Iwatas said:


> I want to accomplish things before I die, not just congratulate myself on living the good life.
> 
> iWatas


Luckily, many people have many different ideas of what it means to "accomplish things." For some, accomplishing things could be climbing 5 mountains, or going wakeboarding every weekend of the summer, or hunting and getting that 5-point buck, etc. Things that can't be done living in the Bay Area or LA, or most other places in the US. It just depends on what people want to accomplish in their life. But that definitely isn't for John Canzano to decide. 

I really like the fact that people drive slower, talk slower and are just overall more relaxed. I get so fed-up with the rat race in San Francisco I can't wait to move back to Oregon.


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

BIG Q said:


> I chose "B." I was tired of people trying to make me feel bad for being successful moneterily. There should be no shame in striving to be successful, and then actually enjoying it. In Oregon I was ridiculed for having a nice SUV, a nice big house and for not wanting to give it away to every meth head panhandler on the Portland streets or in excessive taxes that support all the transplanted Californians pet social burden.



Wow. I have never heard of this. Did you live in Portland? Growing up in Bend, there have been a LOT of people making a LOT of money, but doing it the "old-fashioned", friendly, honest way, not the sleezy Californian way. I've never seen a problem with people being ridiculed for having money. Maybe its less of a problem in Bend.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

What specifically are you talking about. These vague generalizations are meaningleses without some specific examples. Oregon has one of the highest minimum wages in the country, and has long been known to be a pioneer of progressive laws like medical marijuana and doctor asssited suicide. 

People want the Blazers to return to form as well, it's ever fans goal to have a title contending team but you can't just wave a magic wand and make it happen. There are over 30 teams striving for the same goal and only a few reach it.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "eminent domain". That's written in the US Constitution, and is not from Oregon. If you are referring to land-use planning, that was an Oregon invention, and has been such a fiasco that states all over the country have copied it.


my understanding is that the land-use planning ballot measure has resulted in a massive avalanche of lawsuits and state debts, with no hope of it be cleaned up in the near future. at least that's how it was portrayed to us Idahoans when a similar ballot measure was defeated here, failing with a 76% no vote.


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

Iwatas said:


> I lived in Oregon for my formative years, and I loved it for the physical beauty and serenity. I still am thrilled by these things, but I am always frustrated whenever I come back to visit. Everything is slower: people drive slowly, they talk slowly, and above all, they think slowly. It is a state with only one viable political party, and an inbred assumption that anything that limits peoples' freedom and/or raises taxes is progressive and good. Portland's zoning laws that force everyone to live cheek-to-jowl, and the traffic policy that is designed to make it impossible to get from A to B in a reasonable time in one's car make me crazy every time I come through. In any event, I spend a lot more time in a car in Oregon than I do Back East, and who enjoys that?
> 
> I can see why people like it in Oregon. I love visiting, enjoying the scenery, and going out back to squeeze off a few hundred rounds. It is a great place to raise kids so they spend a lot of time outdoors. But having lived in the UK for 10 years, and now on a relatively tame part of the East Coast, I cannot tolerate Oregon for long. I want to accomplish things before I die, not just congratulate myself on living the good life.
> 
> iWatas


Great post, even if you didn't mention Portland's god awful taxation, rampant waste, and the fact that drivers feel like they're doing a public service by driving 55 in the fast lane.

But that's more Portland than Oregon in general, it's actually not so bad once you get out of the city limits. It is one of the more attractive states in the country.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Yes, Oregon is awful. Those of you who haven't left yet should do so immediately, please.

barfo


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

rose garden pimp said:


> sorry im young, whats the rules for suicide and medical marijuana?


You can have one or the other but not both.

barfo


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

barfo said:


> Yes, Oregon is awful. Those of you who haven't left yet should do so immediately, please.
> 
> barfo


Already have, moved to Vancouver a couple years ago. Good schools, can shop in Oregon, saved 12k last year in income taxes, and I can still ski at Hood and attend Blazers games. If I need to commit suicide I guess I'm screwed though.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Iwatas said:


> I want to accomplish things before I die, not just congratulate myself on living the good life.
> 
> iWatas


What exactly is it that you can NOT accomplish in Oregon? I'm sorry, but anyone can do anything anywhere, if they set their mind to it. I'm accomplishing things every day AND living the good life here in Oregon. If you say you can NOT do that, then you're just a whining defeatist who belongs on the east coast.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

Fork said:


> What exactly is it that you can NOT accomplish in Oregon? I'm sorry, but anyone can do anything anywhere, if they set their mind to it. I'm accomplishing things every day AND living the good life here in Oregon. If you say you can NOT do that, then you're just a whining defeatist who belongs on the east coast.


You seem to be a liberal, maybe not, but probably so. Liberals like to pride themselves on being "tolerant." Sure, they are "tolerant" of gays, drug addicts, poor without insurance and the like but the one class they are not "tolerant" of are Conservatives/Republicans. To the liberals the only good Con/Rep is a dead one. If Talkhard or I are not lock step with the liberal agenda and poitical correctness then we have to be reviled adnausea for making a point. The hypocrisy is just sickening. It is easier to just move and enjoy life on your own terms.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

Iwatas said:


> I lived in Oregon for my formative years, and I loved it for the physical beauty and serenity. I still am thrilled by these things, but I am always frustrated whenever I come back to visit. Everything is slower: people drive slowly, they talk slowly, and above all, they think slowly. It is a state with only one viable political party, and an inbred assumption that anything that limits peoples' freedom and/or raises taxes is progressive and good. Portland's zoning laws that force everyone to live cheek-to-jowl, and the traffic policy that is designed to make it impossible to get from A to B in a reasonable time in one's car make me crazy every time I come through. In any event, I spend a lot more time in a car in Oregon than I do Back East, and who enjoys that?
> 
> I can see why people like it in Oregon. I love visiting, enjoying the scenery, and going out back to squeeze off a few hundred rounds. It is a great place to raise kids so they spend a lot of time outdoors. But having lived in the UK for 10 years, and now on a relatively tame part of the East Coast, I cannot tolerate Oregon for long. *I want to accomplish things before I die, not just congratulate myself on living the good life.*
> iWatas


Great post, I have pretty much the same feelings. I have accomplished plenty, worked my butt off for my country and then for my families gain. Now that I am a 70% Disabled Veteran, do you think I might be able to enjoy the rest of my "good days" as I see fit? Enjoy a SUV because I do not fit into a hybrid? Maybe enjoy some travel before the knee and hip replacement?


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

blazerboy30 said:


> Wow. I have never heard of this. Did you live in Portland? Growing up in Bend, there have been a LOT of people making a LOT of money, but doing it the "old-fashioned", friendly, honest way, not the sleezy Californian way. I've never seen a problem with people being ridiculed for having money. Maybe its less of a problem in Bend.


Yes, I lived in Portland after being raised in Salem. Last time I was in Oregon I was accosted for owning an H2. The accoster thought she was very cute trying to get me to play into her ideas of how my vehicle burns up mass quantities of this and does that and this, yada, yada, yada. When I point out to her that my vehicle has so many EPA restrictions on it that it is cleaner than most POS cars on Oregons roads she then changes her argument to what a waste of my money it is to spend $50,000+ on a vehicle. She is proud of her $500 dollar POS. And guess what, it was a early 1970's beater boat that had zero smog emmissions on it. When she started it up it spewed so many toxic fumes we all had to move 25 feet away to breath. She was a far bigger polluter of the environment than my vehicle would ever be. 

And yes, her boy friend did want to get physical with me because I was proving to her what a fool she actually is. I guess he did not like knowing his girl could not get the best of a Conservative and wanted to protect her liberal views with some fisticuffs. Being the bigger man, both physically and emotionally, I pointed out that I had been a college wrestler and he was probably treading in areas he did not want to go. But he did, he took a swing, I brushed it aside and stretched his back for him a bit and let him know I would not be so kind if he persisted. He decided to leave.

Did this pretty much satisfy your curiosity?


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## #10 (Jul 23, 2004)

Being cleaner than most POS cars is no accomplishment, you're still polluting the environment. You have the money to buy a decent car, but you still choose a freaking Hummer. That's lame.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

#10 said:


> Being cleaner than most POS cars is no accomplishment, you're still polluting the environment. You have the money to buy a decent car, but you still choose a freaking Hummer. That's lame.


No its not lame. It is freedom of choice little sparky! You see, I defended your right to be as idiotic as you wish for 6.5 years. My sacrifice ensures that I am still able to think and do as I wish. Call me when you do something for your country or even something of note.

Edit: And feel free to get the POS cars off of the streets before attacking the highly regulated SUV's. You are practicing selective hatred. In this case it is for people with means. If you got the POS cars off of the streets you both protect the environment and force people to use your lame, slow mass transit system.


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## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

BIG Q said:


> You seem to be a liberal, maybe not, but probably so. Liberals like to pride themselves on being "tolerant." Sure, they are "tolerant" of gays, drug addicts, poor without insurance and the like but the one class they are not "tolerant" of are Conservatives/Republicans. To the liberals the only good Con/Rep is a dead one.


Wow, generalize much?

I consider myself a left-leaning moderate (although, if you listen to Rush, which it sounds like you do, you CAN'T be middle of the road. You are either a conservative, or a liberal. Which I think is a bunch of BS, but, to each their own opinions), and you have to admit that the attitude of most hardcore Republicans/Conservatives is a holier-than-thou moral self-righteousness that's very off-putting. If both sides would quit puffing their chests and crowing to everyone around them that THEY ARE RIGHT, AND SCREW YOU IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE (and both sides are equally guilty of this), more intelligent discussion of issues might take place.


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## porkchopexpress (May 24, 2006)

BIG Q said:


> And feel free to get the POS cars off of the streets before attacking the highly regulated SUV's../QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I forget where I read it, but from a purely enviromental standpoint it is better to keep an older car longer than to buy a new, more efficient one (including hybrids), after only owning the previous car a few years. So, getting those POS cars off the street in favor of gas guzzling, but highly regulated SUVs is not a better solution.
> ...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

BIG Q said:


> Yes, I lived in Portland after being raised in Salem. Last time I was in Oregon I was accosted for owning an H2. The accoster thought she was very cute trying to get me to play into her ideas of how my vehicle burns up mass quantities of this and does that and this, yada, yada, yada. When I point out to her that my vehicle has so many EPA restrictions on it that it is cleaner than most POS cars on Oregons roads she then changes her argument to what a waste of my money it is to spend $50,000+ on a vehicle. She is proud of her $500 dollar POS. And guess what, it was a early 1970's beater boat that had zero smog emmissions on it. When she started it up it spewed so many toxic fumes we all had to move 25 feet away to breath. She was a far bigger polluter of the environment than my vehicle would ever be.
> 
> And yes, her boy friend did want to get physical with me because I was proving to her what a fool she actually is. I guess he did not like knowing his girl could not get the best of a Conservative and wanted to protect her liberal views with some fisticuffs. Being the bigger man, both physically and emotionally, I pointed out that I had been a college wrestler and he was probably treading in areas he did not want to go. But he did, he took a swing, I brushed it aside and stretched his back for him a bit and let him know I would not be so kind if he persisted. He decided to leave.
> 
> Did this pretty much satisfy your curiosity?


Sounds you were hanging around the wrong people more than anything else. I personally have never came across any freaks that were spewing garbage about emissions and stuff like that. I bet you'll find weirdo's that are like that everywhere, not just Oregon. Sounds like quite a generalization to label Oregon as being the only place where you'll find people like that.


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## #10 (Jul 23, 2004)

BIG Q said:


> No its not lame. It is freedom of choice little sparky! You see, I defended your right to be as idiotic as you wish for 6.5 years. My sacrifice ensures that I am still able to think and do as I wish. Call me when you do something for your country or even something of note.


So what, only veterans (and to expand, police/firemen) should be able to vote? After all, nobody else has done anything worthwhile, what are their opinions worth? 

I sincerely applaud you for your sacrifice and courage, it truly is admirable. However, you're using your military service like people use the race card, trying to justify unrelated issues.


> Edit: And feel free to get the POS cars off of the streets before attacking the highly regulated SUV's. You are practicing selective hatred. In this case it is for people with means. If you got the POS cars off of the streets you both protect the environment and force people to use your lame, slow mass transit system.


And your other defense for your Hummer is to say that there are other cars just as bad if not worse. Yeah, I'd be all for getting rid of them as well. At least people are driving them only because it's all they can afford. And criticizing public transportation? To continue with the Cartman theme... weak.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

#10 said:


> So what, only veterans (and to expand, police/firemen) should be able to vote? After all, nobody else has done anything worthwhile, what are their opinions worth?


Never said anything about voting. You were given your right to vote at 18 because you were also given the right to be drafted. You do not have to join the military, be a cop/fireman to do something for your country. Join the peace corp or something to make a mark in this world. Donate millions of dollars like some do, just do something.



#10 said:


> I sincerely applaud you for your sacrifice and courage, it truly is admirable. However, you're using your military service like people use the race card, trying to justify unrelated issues.


Thanks, but some how I doubt your sincerity. I am not "using" my military service. I am pointing out to a young sparky that I have more than met my quota of sacrifice for my country. I have done plenty and done my part to be able to ask what have you done? 



#10 said:


> And your other defense for your Hummer is to say that there are other cars just as bad if not worse. Yeah, I'd be all for getting rid of them as well. *At least people are driving them only because it's all they can afford.* And criticizing public transportation? To continue with the Cartman theme... weak.


Nice to know that it is acceptable for the poor to pollute all they want in your eyes. They are some how exempt from your morals preachings because they have no money? They do not bear any responsibility, after all, mass transit is there to get everyone off of the road, right?


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> Sounds you were hanging around the wrong people more than anything else. I personally have never came across any freaks that were spewing garbage about emissions and stuff like that. I bet you'll find weirdo's that are like that everywhere, not just Oregon. *Sounds like quite a generalization to label Oregon as being the only place where you'll find people like that*.


I did not do that, hence no generalization. And I was not "hanging around them." What would you call people that you do not know, have never seen or met? Strangers?


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

porkchopexpress said:


> BIG Q said:
> 
> 
> > And feel free to get the POS cars off of the streets before attacking the highly regulated SUV's../QUOTE]
> ...


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

chris_in_pdx said:


> *Wow, generalize much?*
> I consider myself a left-leaning moderate (although, if you listen to Rush, which it sounds like you do, you CAN'T be middle of the road. You are either a conservative, or a liberal. Which I think is a bunch of BS, but, to each their own opinions), and you have to admit that the attitude of most hardcore Republicans/Conservatives is a holier-than-thou moral self-righteousness that's very off-putting. If both sides would quit puffing their chests and crowing to everyone around them that THEY ARE RIGHT, AND SCREW YOU IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE (and both sides are equally guilty of this), more intelligent discussion of issues might take place.


That was an educated guess based off of reading many posts from the quoted. But I did not generalize per se because I left room for error by sayin "maybe not." Your post is very good and I have little disagreement with it. But when you talk about holier than thou crap, remember that liberals/democrats do it as well. They are not Golden Children. The Kennedy's still take private jets to get around instead of using Southwest Airlines. They do not want a wind farm in the ocean off of Martha's Vineyard because it would ruin their views and property value even though it was chosen as the best place for it.

I would love not to be accosted on this board just because I am a Rep/con. But you know I am in the minority on this board, and because my minority status is political. If I were gay, black, etc. I would be more accepted.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

BIG Q said:


> I did not do that, hence no generalization. And I was not "hanging around them." What would you call people that you do not know, have never seen or met? Strangers?


An isolated incident? Hell, lets bash Oregon for it. There's no liberals arguing about emissions and such in Arizona......


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

BIG Q said:


> That was an educated guess based off of reading many posts from the quoted. But I did not generalize per se because I left room for error by sayin "maybe not." Your post is very good and I have little disagreement with it. But when you talk about holier than thou crap, remember that liberals/democrats do it as well. They are not Golden Children. The Kennedy's still take private jets to get around instead of using Southwest Airlines. They do not want a wind farm in the ocean off of Martha's Vineyard because it would ruin their views and property value even though it was chosen as the best place for it.
> 
> I would love not to be accosted on this board just because I am a Rep/con. But you know I am in the minority on this board, and because my minority status is political. If I were gay, black, etc. I would be more accepted.


Kennedy's aren't hardcore environmentalists that I can recall. They are liberals, yes. 


Look back and analyze who got political in this thread.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

wizmentor said:


> OT -
> Oregon has essentially repealed the bottle bill. By remaining at
> a nickel, which it was in the 70s. No one really gives a rip about
> throwing away a nickel any more.


Our unmatched army of the homeless, the jobless , and the helpless keep our State far cleaner than any of the other Western States. If your economy is weak and your public assistance weaker, a nickle is nothing to sneeze at.

And I object to the way Canzano throws around the term "we", as if he is somehow an Oregonian. He's the most typical Fresno-ite there is. An avowed Lakers fan for starters, he wants to drag everything bad about California here with him and dump it on our doorstep.

Low-life scum-sucking so and so.


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

First, anything that Canzano DOESN'T like about this state must be a good thing.

Second, Big Q is exactly right when he points out that the liberal mindset is all for freedom of speech, except when it comes to speech from the right. I was particularly proud to see video of an effigy of a soldier being burned in downtown Portland last week - it's great to show how "open-minded" and peaceful we are here. This state, more precisely this city has become a bastion for the liberal left - a bunch of out-of-state, liberally educated, do-nothings who have not helped the economy in any way, shape or form, yet our City Council continues to cater to them. It's sad really.


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## Tim Lehrbach (Sep 17, 2003)

Paging Tom McCall...


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

BIG Q said:


> I would love not to be accosted on this board just because I am a Rep/con. But you know I am in the minority on this board, and because my minority status is political. If I were gay, black, etc. I would be more accepted.


Who accosted you for being a Rep/Con? It looks to me like you initiated a rant against "liberals" in this case, which I can't believe you honestly didn't think would get a negative response from some people.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

Foulzilla said:


> Who accosted you for being a Rep/Con? It looks to me like you initiated a rant against "liberals" in this case, which I can't believe you honestly didn't think would get a negative response from some people.


I have been accosted on this board many times for my view on subjects. Not just in this thread. Here is the link about those great economical cars also.

The Recorder


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

barfo said:


> Yes, Oregon is awful. Those of you who haven't left yet should do so immediately, please.
> 
> barfo


Tom McCall said it best...come, visit...buy our goods. but please, don't stay.


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## porkchopexpress (May 24, 2006)

BIG Q said:


> I have been accosted on this board many times for my view on subjects. Not just in this thread. Here is the link about those great economical cars also.
> 
> The Recorder



Who here has said that hybrids are economical? Also, I doubt that most people who buy hummers are going to keep them for 300K miles.

For the future in cars read this.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/03/09/cars.hydrogen.popsci/index.html


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

BIG Q said:


> I have been accosted on this board many times for my view on subjects. Not just in this thread.





> To the liberals the only good Con/Rep is a dead one.


In one breath you make a blanket statement about liberals wishing to have a Khmer Rouge style mass murder of Republicans, and the next you complain that you're constantly being assaulted by liberals. 

My goodness, I thought it was the democrats who were supposed to be whiny and paranoid. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, man, and ask yourself what Ronald Reagan would do.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

mook said:


> My goodness, I thought it was the democrats who were supposed to be whiny and paranoid. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, man, and ask yourself what Ronald Reagan would do.


[poor taste]so he should put on a diaper, forget his name and forget what he is doing? [/poor taste]


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

blazerboy30 said:


> Luckily, many people have many different ideas of what it means to "accomplish things." For some, accomplishing things could be climbing 5 mountains, or going wakeboarding every weekend of the summer


You are absolutely right. If pursuing leisure outdoors means accomplishing things to some, then there are few, if any, better places in the world than Oregon. 

I am not a good match - the Blazers are one of my few vices, and none of them include abandoning my life goals so I can brag to my grandchildren about how I spent my life improving the world by climbing mountains or wakeboarding. :smile: 

iWatas


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I haven't read the whole thread but as a Portland Metro area resident I'll agree with him. The community really isn't very forward thinking. Whether it is mediocre or not really isn't the point, what is the point is there is a sense of contentment, which I find unacceptable. Portland and Oregon in general are beautiful places with a lot to offer, but the local government does very little to capitalize on it. I'm not talking about a full on sell out, but come on really there is room to grow the community we can be better than Seattle, but there is little effort or motivation. If medical Marijuana and assisted suicide are the best things we've accomplished then we need to re-evaluate a few things...I mean really blurring reality and ending life, WOOOHOOO!!!!


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Schilly said:


> If medical Marijuana and assisted suicide are the best things we've accomplished then we need to re-evaluate a few things...I mean really blurring reality and ending life, WOOOHOOO!!!!


"Blurring reality and ending life" make it sound pretty trivial. If you talked to somebody actually considering assisted suicide or medical marijuana, I think they'd describe it as "Ending a ****-load of pain and misery." If a member of your family (god forbid) had terminal cancer, would it still be so trivial? 

Anyway, I live in one of the fastest-growing areas in America: Boise, Idaho. We're a Republican wet dream of sprawling strip malls, endless subdivisions, and beautiful mountain valleys getting clogged up with million dollar vacation cabins for Californians. My favorite childhood bird hunting spot is now literally a gated community. There's not a university or college in the state that would make any top 200 national ranking. 

When I look at the amazing public transportation system, the great restaurants, the music clubs, and brilliant open spaces like Sauvie Island, I wonder what Portlanders are complaining about.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Schilly said:


> I haven't read the whole thread but as a Portland Metro area resident I'll agree with him. The community really isn't very forward thinking. Whether it is mediocre or not really isn't the point, what is the point is there is a sense of contentment, which I find unacceptable. Portland and Oregon in general are beautiful places with a lot to offer, but the local government does very little to capitalize on it. I'm not talking about a full on sell out, but come on really there is room to grow the community we can be better than Seattle, but there is little effort or motivation. If medical Marijuana and assisted suicide are the best things we've accomplished then we need to re-evaluate a few things...I mean really blurring reality and ending life, WOOOHOOO!!!!


I still don't understand what exactly it is that can't be done (or isn't being done) here in Oregon, or Portland more specifically? 

I think many would argue that the Urban Growth Boundary is incredibly forward thinking. Our mass transit system is forward thinking. We started the initiative and referendum system, which most states have since adopted. Killing the Mt. Hood freeway, thus saving a dozen neighborhoods in it's path, was very forward thinking. Encouraging sustainable businesses. Vote by mail. etc, etc, etc.

It sounds to me like most of the complaints about Portland are that it's full of dirty hippies and people don't drive fast enough. Big deal.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

mook said:


> "Blurring reality and ending life" make it sound pretty trivial. If you talked to somebody actually considering assisted suicide or medical marijuana, I think they'd describe it as "Ending a ****-load of pain and misery." If a member of your family (god forbid) had terminal cancer, would it still be so trivial?


Nuts. Anyone who wants to kill themselves and can move, can do so. In every house there are dozens of things that would do the trick. Assisted suicide is a way families can pressure expensive older relatives to save money by turning in early - and do it legally. 




> My favorite childhood bird hunting spot is now literally a gated community.


You mean that where you liked to go and shoot birds for fun, people now live? That is just awful. People are the worst. We need more assisted suicide for anyone able to afford to live in a nice place. And medical marijuana for those who can't.




> There's not a university or college in the state that would make any top 200 national ranking.


Except for University of Idaho. 65th in the Nation.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html
oops!




> When I look at the amazing public transportation system,


Not. http://www.cascadepolicy.org/pdf/env/P_1004.htm

iWatas


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

mook said:


> "Blurring reality and ending life" make it sound pretty trivial. If you talked to somebody actually considering assisted suicide or medical marijuana, I think they'd describe it as "Ending a ****-load of pain and misery." If a member of your family (god forbid) had terminal cancer, would it still be so trivial?


You missed my point, because you got caught up in the way I said it. I didn't say they were bad things, I said if that was the best we could offer in the realms of forward thinking then that's not too impressive.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Iwatas said:


> You mean that where you liked to go and shoot birds for fun, people now live? That is just awful. People are the worst. We need more assisted suicide for anyone able to afford to live in a nice place. And medical marijuana for those who can't.


imply bird hunting is inhumane if you'd like, but I never completely annihilated a local population. when they put million dollar homes in a 200 acre gated community, it wiped out the local chukar and hungarian partridge populations there permanently. forever. 

my son will never be able to set foot on most of the mountain I used to wander as a kid. this is just a tiny, personal example for me of the depressing lack of planning and priorities in our state's leadership. 



> Except for University of Idaho. 65th in the Nation.
> "The Washington Monthly College Rankings" by The Editors
> oops!


wow. that's actually really shocking to me. oh wait, it's the Washington Times. so the Fox News of newspapers thinks a university in one of the most conservative states in the union is good, while US News doesn't. 

so happens I've actually attended both the University of Idaho and the University of Oregon. U of I was such a piss-poor university that I transferred out of there to the U of O, willingly paying $7,000 more a year in tuition just to get away. the University of Oregon felt like Harvard after leaving that dump.

looks like the Washington Times picked a token ******* university just so it wouldn't be completely swamped by them librul skools. 



> Not. Top Ten Light Rail Myths


way to cite a document from a libertarian think tank from 9 years ago. I'm sure nothing has changed between now and 1998, and that libertarians are going to give a balanced critique of public transportation.


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## ColoradoBlazerFan (Feb 16, 2006)

Grew up in Oregon and moved away after high school (22 years ago). Like Johnny Cash, "I've been everywhere man." I often visit Oregon and it still remains one of the better places to live.

While Oregon is fairly progressive in politics, it's committment to public schools is horrid. This is one thing that people hear about Nationwide and is of great concern to many considering moving there. All the stories of fewer school days, closings, etc. have taken their toll on public opinion. I have had a few friends move to Oregon and find out that the public schools are way behind those in Colorado for instance.

Perhaps things have improved but the news hasn't reached outside of Oregon if it has.

Cheers


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Schilly said:


> You missed my point, because you got caught up in the way I said it. I didn't say they were bad things, I said if that was the best we could offer in the realms of forward thinking then that's not too impressive.


I think that ending people's needless suffering *is *a really big issue. 

Oregon only has 3.4 million people. the US has 300 million people. if the rest of this country were to pick causes of similar importance and push them as hard as Oregon has pushed those two issues, our country would be a far better place to live in. 

is medical marijuana and euthanasia as big of issues as, say, winning the war in Iraq or eliminating the federal deficit? no. but how much can you actually expect out of 3.4 million people?


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

anyway, I'm surprised that nobody has yet brought up that Nike was founded by two Oregonians who somehow managed to rise up above all the sloth and self-indulgence. 

the company I work for, which is headquartered in Portland, was a $5 million dollar a year business 12 years ago. this year we'll make $30 million. in three more years we'll make $60 million, if all we do is fulfill current orders. seems to me we are getting things done.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

mook said:


> wow. that's actually really shocking to me. oh wait, it's the Washington Times. so the Fox News of newspapers thinks a university in one of the most conservative states in the union is good, while US News doesn't.
> 
> looks like the Washington Times picked a token ******* university just so it wouldn't be completely swamped by them librul skools.


Mook, you are incredible. You make a wrong statement. I correct it. So instead of saying "I stand corrected", you attack the source. 

But to make things worse, you get it all wrong again!!! The Washington Monthly has nothing to do with the Washington Times. It is a monthly magazine that if anything is quite liberal! (It brags of its readers including Warren Buffett, Paul Krugman, Garry Trudeau, Molly Ivins, Bill Clinton, and the producers of "60 Minutes" and "The West Wing".

About The Washington Monthly

It seems that neither the University of Idaho or that of Oregon taught you to research or to read carefully. Did they teach you to concede when hopelessly behind?

The best reply to this post is "you were right". Don't dig any deeper.

iWatas


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## porkchopexpress (May 24, 2006)

Not that usnews is the only source for school rankings, it is the one that actually gets used by students every year making decisions on schools. While UO ranks pretty low at 120, UI doesn't even get a rank and is listed as 3rd tier.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/brief/drglance_1626_brief.php

Although I don't really know what this has to do with anything.


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## porkchopexpress (May 24, 2006)

Oh, and any ranking that has University of Arizona ahead of Princeton and Northwestern is pretty terrible.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

hey, I'll freely admit I was wrong on that one. I misread "Times" and "Monthly." honest mistake. I'll retract that it was a conservative rag, and only say that it's some other kind of rag to think U of I is in the same class as U of O. 

like I said, I've attended both. it cost me a ton of money to leave the University of Idaho, but it was a bargain. the place is a dump.


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

What is it that people can't accomplish in Oregon???

I lived in Oregon for 22 years, and have lived in the Bay Area for the last 3 years. It is true that one can make more money here in the bay area, but the lowered quality of living makes it not worth it. 

Something is wrong when people making well over 100k / year can't afford to buy their own house, and have to settle for living in unimpressive apartment complexes. Add that to having to put up with the constant rat race, the congestion and traffic. 

There is nothing I can accomplish here that I can't accomplish in Oregon.....plus I would have a much higher standard of living in Oregon. 

It sounds like a lot of those who complain about Oregon have left. Thats great! Now the others who are complaining should do the same. Heck, you can have my apartment in Palo Alto. :biggrin: I think the people who complain about the lack of opportunity in Oregon are most likely just lazy and / or not very smart.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Schilly said:


> I haven't read the whole thread but as a Portland Metro area resident I'll agree with him. The community really isn't very forward thinking. Whether it is mediocre or not really isn't the point, what is the point is there is a sense of contentment, which I find unacceptable. Portland and Oregon in general are beautiful places with a lot to offer, but the local government does very little to capitalize on it. I'm not talking about a full on sell out, but come on really there is room to grow the community we can be better than Seattle, but there is little effort or motivation. If medical Marijuana and assisted suicide are the best things we've accomplished then we need to re-evaluate a few things...I mean really blurring reality and ending life, WOOOHOOO!!!!


That's what happens when you open your borders to Californians.


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