# New Draft Dynamic...Who Slips to 16?



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

With the meteoric rise from mid first round to mid-lottery now guaranteed for the Siberian Bear Pavel Podkolzine, due to a breathtaking workout, that drops someone down to the Celtics. Other workout notables have also improved their stock, including Malick Badiane, a Senegalese 6'11" player with amazing wingspan and huge upside, Arizona's Luke Walton and BC's Troy Bell. All three of those players should be available to Boston, though. I think Boston never had a chance at Podkolzine to begin with, but his rise may drop a player such as Nick Collison or even Luke Ridnour into our hands. With 18 days until the draft, does this draft appear deep enough to get us one quality contributor? Or will Steve ("I think Kedrick Brown is a star") Pagliuca find a way to screw this up? Boston should be able to get two (2) players from this group, or trade up:
Nick Collison
Luke Ridnour
Leandrinho Barbosa
Alexsandar Pavlovic
David West
Malick Badiane
Reece Gaines
Sounds pretty intriguing to me. A penny for your thoughts, GangGreen...


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

the fact that they have 16 and 20 may have something to do with how they approach the draft,i know they were high on britton johnsen out of byu, but i think they would look at him at 20,of the point guards who may be available i have predicted,probably in error,that t.j. ford will slide to 10 or 11 and then there will be a run on pg's to g.s.,seattle and orlando.you really cant go wrong getting one of the top 4 and that would be 
ford
hinrich
ridnour
barbosa
put them in whatever order you like but they all bring a lot to the table.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*PGs available for Boston*

We won't get Ford, but might get another of those listed. There are also others that might be good or better. Williams, Bell, Moore, Banks, etc. Bottom line: Ainge should take whomever he deems the best player available at both spots.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/6415542

Big John what do you think of that? 

I admit I had my doubts when you said he might be a bum to begin with because of the 10 year contract, but 100 US scouts and ****s are impressed with him.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/6415542
> 
> Big John what do you think of that?
> ...


Well, if some team wants to expend a top ten pick on this guy after one workout, they are welcome. I went over to the ESPN website and watched the tapes. He dunked one ball, and then made a jumpshot with his agent guarding him. Who knows what he would look like in an actual game? Who knows if his ankles would hold up for an entire NBA season? 

Podkolzin's emergence helps the Celtics.  It means that one more good player will probably be available at #16. I hope that Collison, Hinrich and Marcus Banks are lottery picks too.

Malik Badiane might not be a bad pick if he slips to #20. But everyone should understand that this guy is like Jerome Moiso. It will take 2-3 years for him to develop.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, if some team wants to expend a top ten pick on this guy after one workout, they are welcome. I went over to the ESPN website and watched the tapes. He dunked one ball, and then made a jumpshot with his agent guarding him. Who knows what he would look like in an actual game? Who knows if his ankles would hold up for an entire NBA season?
> ...


Yes, and no. I mean 100 people....thats a lot. I wonder if Wallace was there.....

Its kinda funny, two days ago, I saw Pavel be taking by the Celtics with number 20, now he's a top 4 pick.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Pavel helps the Celtics*

That's sort of the point of this whole post. While some mocks had Podkolzine at 20, he was never going past mid-first round. But his lightning jump up the board does help us. There should be better players dropping down now. So far Barbosa is leading our little poll, but he may or may not be there, depending on workouts. I'm getting giddy, here. I cannot wait.


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## BostonCeltics_33 (Jun 1, 2003)

*who we should draft*

I know this is a little off the point, but I read a GSW post that had them trading the #11,#40 and Steve Logan for our #16 & #20. 
at 11 we could get Hinrich or Ridnour ( one of them will be around) and at 40 Luke Walton might be there, plus Logan is a nice player too.
Anyway, just thought I'd bring that to everyone's attention.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: who we should draft*



> Originally posted by <b>BostonCeltics_33</b>!
> I know this is a little off the point, but I read a GSW post that had them trading the #11,#40 and Steve Logan for our #16 & #20.
> at 11 we could get Hinrich or Ridnour ( one of them will be around) and at 40 Luke Walton might be there, plus Logan is a nice player too.
> Anyway, just thought I'd bring that to everyone's attention.


Bad deal on the surface, but I haven't been following Logan's progress in the NDBL. Folks should remember that he wasn't good enough to make Golden State's roster. 

If they can't move up enough to take a guy like Sweetney, it's not worth it IMHO.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Steve Logan sucks...*

But this is kind of intriguing. But don't trade up to get a Hinrich or Ridnour. Some real nice players could be at 11. Sweetney is one of them, gotta agree with you. Presently, I'd stand pat though before I traded for these guys. I like Sweetney a lot, though.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Steve Logan sucks...*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> But this is kind of intriguing. But don't trade up to get a Hinrich or Ridnour. Some real nice players could be at 11. Sweetney is one of them, gotta agree with you. Presently, I'd stand pat though before I traded for these guys. I like Sweetney a lot, though.


Arguably the second best player in Chicago after Troy Bell was Jermaine Boyette, and I don't see him anywhere in the mock drafts. Marcus Hatten had a bad camp and will not be drafted. One of those guys may be next year's JR Bremer. Then there are some guys overseas. Will Solomon, a local kid (East Hartford, CT), had a good career at Clemson and an excellent year in Greece. Don't waste a pick on a point guard! There are plenty of free agents available-- with or without NBA experience.


Think Sofoklis Schortsanitis, Malik Badiane and David West. At least two of thoese three will be available at #16 and #20. West could help right away, and the foreign player could be stashed in Europe for a year or two to develop and help avoid the luxury tax. I'm also high on Boris Diaw, having seen some new tapes and scouting reports.


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## Bigfoot_Cryptozoology (Apr 24, 2003)

Too bad Podkolzine got discovered as he could have been a nice pick-up/project with the 16th pick for the center-hungry Celtics.

As far as his effect on the Celtics draft, likely not much.

The good PGs: Ford, Hinrich, Ridnour, and Gaines will still all be gone -- not that I wanted the combo guard Gaines in the first place -- by the time the Celtics draft.

That leaves the usual suspects with various problems: 

- Barbosa, who could be good in time, but I doubt the Celtics will draft him, as he's 3 years away, and they want a PG who can have a more immediate impact.

- Banks, not a good three-point shooter and turnover prone.

- Jameer Nelson, who may drop out of the draft, but is the best
pure PG available and should be a nice NBA player.

- Troy Bell, a shooting PG, not a great creator, but perhaps could
evolve into a Nick Van Exel type of player.

- Chris Thomas, quickness, good shooter, but defense issues.

- Pacellus Morlende - Very raw but athletic, once again another
guy not ready for the NBA.

- Mo Williams - Incoconsistent and should go back to Bama.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I don't like the 11 and 40 for number 16 and 20.

If we should do ANYTHING at all, give 20 away for 2 second rounders, early/mid second rounders.

IF we can't get two second rounders, DON'T DO ANYTHING. Keep them both, you just know that 5 (at least) players are gonna slip BEFORE 20.


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## Bigfoot_Cryptozoology (Apr 24, 2003)

All for trading up for 11 and 40. Hinrich should be
gone, but Ridnour likely will be available, or maybe someone like 
Lampe will slip a bit with Podkolzine's rise. I have no problem with the Celtics trading up for Lampe.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*It's an interesting hypothetical...*

You make the trade to have a chance at 11...maybe you can get a decent point guard w/40th selection, and the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE at 11. Yes, Pavel's rise does help Boston, especially if they trade up. Forget about Logan, he sucks, but this trade is intriguing. Lampe, Sweetney, Hinrich, Wade are all better players than we'll get a chance to get at 16. But 16 and 20 might provide a smidge more depth. It's an interesting decision for Ainge to make if he gets that offer. Of course, you don't sign Logan, keeping him in NBDL or AndOne Mix Tour or whatever.


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## CelticsRule (Jul 22, 2002)

*Re: It's an interesting hypothetical...*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> You make the trade to have a chance at 11...maybe you can get a decent point guard w/40th selection, and the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE at 11. Yes, Pavel's rise does help Boston, especially if they trade up. Forget about Logan, he sucks, but this trade is intriguing. Lampe, Sweetney, Hinrich, Wade are all better players than we'll get a chance to get at 16. But 16 and 20 might provide a smidge more depth. It's an interesting decision for Ainge to make if he gets that offer. Of course, you don't sign Logan, keeping him in NBDL or AndOne Mix Tour or whatever.


I don't see the need for the Celtics to draft Wade, where would he play? I haven;t heard much on Lampe, could he make an immediate impact?


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## BleedGreen (Jun 24, 2002)

Who the hell is Malick Badiane? I havent even heard of him. I was gone for 2 days and this guy might be lotto and Pavel Podkolzine might be #4. Whats goin' on?


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## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

It is called workouts. In my mock I have the Celtics taking him at 16 and Marcus Banks at 20.


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## BostonCeltics_33 (Jun 1, 2003)

*Forgot about Sweetney*

Good point.
I think Sweetney would be a great pick. Over here in New Zealand we don't get too much basketball to watch, but I saw him vs. Duke and was very impressed. He seems like a hard bugger, and those guys always have a place in the L, plus there's also the small side benefit of him having great hands and a nice post-up game. I think he'd be worth trading up for, even if this is all very unlikely discussion.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

*My Idea*

I say that we go with a double PF draft of Collison and West. The fact that celtics fans are talking about drafting a foriegnor (except for barbosa) is amazing . But by drafting 2 PFs we can move toine to the 3(his natural position and will reduce wear and tear) and you have two All-Americans and what should be very mature rookies, both being 4 year players. They are both bangers and will bring a physical and mental toughness and presence inside. You then can package one of the PGs (delk or bremer) and one of the utility forwards(walta or williams(i prefer williams)) in a trade for a PG or like someone else said we can hit the free agent market. Both should get us a Good PG. Thats why i say we go for home grown talent, proven players and have them split time evenly to prevent the "rookie wall". Do you guys think that would work


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: My Idea*



> Originally posted by <b>goNBAjayhawks</b>!
> I say that we go with a double PF draft of Collison and West. The fact that celtics fans are talking about drafting a foriegnor (except for barbosa) is amazing . But by drafting 2 PFs we can move toine to the 3(his natural position and will reduce wear and tear) and you have two All-Americans and what should be very mature rookies, both being 4 year players. They are both bangers and will bring a physical and mental toughness and presence inside. You then can package one of the PGs (delk or bremer) and one of the utility forwards(walta or williams(i prefer williams)) in a trade for a PG or like someone else said we can hit the free agent market. Both should get us a Good PG. Thats why i say we go for home grown talent, proven players and have them split time evenly to prevent the "rookie wall". Do you guys think that would work


no no no. we do not need two undersized power forwards. and it is especially a bad idea to have one of them starting. i would much rather have walker at pf and williams at sf than walker at sf and a rookie starting at pf. plus if we trade away bremer and get a pg in return, we still only really have 1 pg on the team. keep bremer and get another pg through the draft, hopefully we can get barbosa or ridnour at 16. if not we should take badiane there and get someone like bamks at 20.

ideal draft:
16 Barbosa
20 Badiane

i liked badiane before and was hoping we could acquire a second rounder to get him, but with a good workout his stock is rising, and i hope we can get him.

if we get a pg at 16 and badiane is not available at 20, then we should look at guys like baby shaq, west, or collison.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: My Idea*



> Originally posted by <b>NE sportsfan</b>!
> 
> 
> no no no. we do not need two undersized power forwards. and it is especially a bad idea to have one of them starting. i would much rather have walker at pf and williams at sf than walker at sf and a rookie starting at pf. plus if we trade away bremer and get a pg in return, we still only really have 1 pg on the team. keep bremer and get another pg through the draft, hopefully we can get barbosa or ridnour at 16. if not we should take badiane there and get someone like bamks at 20.
> ...


Collison is not undrsized and West is very physical and can be like a Carlos boozer who played center even and was an undersized pf , except West is a very good scorer.
I would want to keep Bremer and get rid of delk also but some say other wise. Collison should have a 10 and 6 season, atleast. And West should have an 8 and 4.5 at least . You put those together and its 18 and 11 basically and thats a sub par rookie campaign with what they could put up.
If we Package Delk and Williams we could get a solid Pg IMO and before draft day a possible 2nd rnd pick. Or basically move up in the draft with that deal and get barbosa or a Pg of choice, i prefer hinrich.
All in All if we do what i want this year we will be set for the next few just getting various backups and maybe eventually a new starting center. There is endless possibilities as far as trade bait or even keeping all of the players.

FA/Bremer
Pierce/Brown
Walker/McCarty
Collison/West/McCarty
Battie/Blount/Collison


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Re: My Idea*



> Originally posted by <b>goNBAjayhawks</b>!
> I say that we go with a double PF draft of Collison and West. The fact that celtics fans are talking about drafting a foriegnor (except for barbosa) is amazing . But by drafting 2 PFs we can move toine to the 3(his natural position and will reduce wear and tear) and you have two All-Americans and what should be very mature rookies, both being 4 year players. They are both bangers and will bring a physical and mental toughness and presence inside. You then can package one of the PGs (delk or bremer) and one of the utility forwards(walta or williams(i prefer williams)) in a trade for a PG or like someone else said we can hit the free agent market. Both should get us a Good PG. Thats why i say we go for home grown talent, proven players and have them split time evenly to prevent the "rookie wall". Do you guys think that would work


First of all, Dwayne Wade could play for this team. You guys are thinking about him playing a lot of minutes. 10-15 minutes a game would be there at a guard spot for him, w/Pierce moving over to SF or him playing point and having Antoine distribute.

As for this guy I'm quoting, I like both those players, and I think we could get one. But the upside is not as good as Badiane, and neither of these guys is going to help us beat NJ or Detroit, so I say go for the best player for our FUTURE. College basketball isn't what it was, my friend. As for your little trade scenario, allow me to bring a couple of things to your attention. 1) Walter is no longer a Celtic. We MIGHT be able to re-sign him, but he's going to want more than he's worth. 2) Tony Delk should stay on this team. He's a good SG and valuable bench scorer. And 3) assuming we traded Eric (which O'Brien wouldn't want to do, since he is a heart and soul player and good defender and our only post option) and JR, which point guard do you think we could get. Your answer? Milt Palacio (along w/Darius Miles). How many teams have enough at the point position? Not many, and that's why your scenario isn't going to happen. I've said it before and I'll say it again--anyone who wants to trade ORIGINAL CREATION should be sent to Guantanamo Bay immediately.

p.s. I like to see more people voting for Badiane in the poll--let's see what Danny does.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: My Idea*



> Originally posted by <b>goNBAjayhawks</b>!
> 
> 
> Collison is not undrsized and West is very physical and can be like a Carlos boozer who played center even and was an undersized pf , except West is a very good scorer.
> ...


as i had a problem with shipping bremer, i feel similar about delk. delk is the only shooter on the celtics, and with a shoot the three mindset he is pretty valuable to have.

what point guard are we gonna get for bremer and williams, im not saying we cant get one, but im just wondering who you think. whoever we get needs to be proven. i agree that collison and west being 4 year players are about as nba ready as any1, but im not interested in getting both of them, collison is about as good as hes gonna get, and west may become a solid backup, but wont be a great starter.

and how exactly is getting various backups making us set for the next few years?

if we do what i want this offseason we keep the guys that played last year (and brown) and get rid of the 3 that rode the bench (coles, long, and bryant, which im pretty sure is gonna happen). Then we draft guys at our weak spots, pg and post. and finally use the MLE on a big guy. My preferance is Zo if he's healthy, but there are others available, hopefully we can get someone.

this way, we are keeping the guys who brought us to the second round of the playoffs, and improving on it with the two draft picks and the MLE free agent. That's about all we can do with the cap problems caused by Baker.

I do ont want to see any trades that will talentwise only improve our tema a little bit, becaus eit could hurt the biggest thing they have going for them besides Pierce, team chemistry.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Earth to NE Sports Fanz...*

ZO is NOT coming. Maybe we can get someone like Keon Clark, but ALONZO MOURNING WILL NOT PLAY FOR THE BOSTON CELTICS...Again, why would he want to?

As for Grant Long, you act like he is part of the problem. You talk about our great chemistry, and I agree that we have it, but why not keep Grant around for another year at the minimum? He loves it here and I think he was effective for his 5-8 minutes a game. It's good to have a guy like that as an example for the young players.

And please, stop floating trade scenarios about point guards. We won't get a decent one in trade unless we include one or both of the first round picks. It's as simple as that.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Earth to NE Sports Fanz...*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> ZO is NOT coming. Maybe we can get someone like Keon Clark, but ALONZO MOURNING WILL NOT PLAY FOR THE BOSTON CELTICS...Again, why would he want to?
> 
> As for Grant Long, you act like he is part of the problem. You talk about our great chemistry, and I agree that we have it, but why not keep Grant around for another year at the minimum? He loves it here and I think he was effective for his 5-8 minutes a game. It's good to have a guy like that as an example for the young players.
> ...


i said Zo because id heard the rumor and i was being optomistic, probably overly so, but we can still hope. but hopefully using the MLE we can get some1 thats pretty good. i agree that long was pretty good for a few minutes a game, but i just think that with the MLE we could get better, and he would be the odd man out. if we could get keon clark that would be great.

i also agree about the point guard trades. we wont get the quality we want. the best thing to do is draft one. bremer and delk can hold down the position well enough until the rookie is ready to start, hopefully he comes on like bremer did last year. that would give us two good young pgs. hopefully the rookie becomes our solid starter for years to come, and bremer will be a quality backup.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*MLE vs. minimum*

Agree with you on all points. But just because we use MLE on someone, ala Keon Clark, or even split it between two players, doesn't mean Grant Long is the odd man out. We can still sign him for veteran's minimum. I agree with you that Bimbo Coles and Mark Bryant are basically retired. But Long might be a nice guy to have as a veteran presence. Remember, we get to keep 15 players.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: MLE vs. minimum*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Agree with you on all points. But just because we use MLE on someone, ala Keon Clark, or even split it between two players, doesn't mean Grant Long is the odd man out. We can still sign him for veteran's minimum. I agree with you that Bimbo Coles and Mark Bryant are basically retired. But Long might be a nice guy to have as a veteran presence. Remember, we get to keep 15 players.


true, i guess long wouldnt be a bad guy to have in case of an injury (knock on wood)

pg- bremer, delk, rookie
sg- pierce, brown
sf- williams, mcarty
pf- walker, .....
battie, blount, rookie, FA in the post (positions depending on who we draft and sign)
IR- Baker, Long, Sundov

as far as using the MLE goes, who would be the best fit for us, and who do we have the chance to get?


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: Earth to NE Sports Fanz...*



> Originally posted by <b>NE sportsfan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey i know that we should draft a Pg and a Post man but i still dont think that anyone werth while(ridenour,Hinrich,Barbosa,Ford). Yes Pavel Helped us out but it helped out the magic too because they need a PG, actually the magic have the same needs as us. I feel that those are the only 4 PGs werth while to draft as far as PG of the future for the C's, thats why I went with the double set. Both of those guys will be available and will get rid of the post team need and use a MLE on a PG (who is there). If there are not any it sounds like you guys wouldnt care if Bremer and Delk held the point, But as a Pierce fan i dont like it b/c its killing Pierce, but hey we made the playoffs and im sure we can find a FA


Also there is word that Baby shaq might go to new york at 9 this IMO would drop either Ridenour or Hinrich to us and then have the choice of Collison,West,Vajero, or Badiane for a post player. GO BABY SHAQ.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*PGs; MLE*

I don't know that any of those three will be available at 16, but one could slip. I just think the Celtics should take the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE at both spots. If that's a point guard, great, if not try to address that via trade or free agency. As far as the MLE goes I really don't know who we could get. Lots of teams have the exception, but not all will use it. We could actually split the exception in half and offer it to two players: Earl Boykins and Erick Strickland. Getting one of those guys would help, and Erick wants to come back. Interesting new ESPN mock has us getting Pavlovic (whom I like) at 16 and Marcus Banks at 20.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: MLE vs. minimum*



> Originally posted by <b>NE sportsfan</b>!
> 
> 
> true, i guess long wouldnt be a bad guy to have in case of an injury (knock on wood)
> ...


I don't know if Walter will be back, but let's assume he is...Here's what the roster COULD look like....

C Battie, Baker, Blount, Sundov
PF Walker, Long, Songaila
SF Williams, McCarty, Pavlovic
SG Pierce, Brown, Delk
PG Bremer, Barbosa

Don't forget about Darius Songaila, who has been playing quite well at CSKA Moscow, helping them get to the European Final Four. He could be paid minimally 354k, and could produce some scoring and rebounding for us.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: MLE vs. minimum*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know if Walter will be back, but let's assume he is...Here's what the roster COULD look like....
> ...


we're not getting barbosa, sadly. golden state or seattle will take him. i hope we can get ridnour, but im fearing that if we get any of the top pgs to fall to us, it will be hinrich, uh oh. a guy i wanna see us get is malick bidiane.

i havent forgotten songalia, i jus think that it would be better to leave him over there for one more year, for two reasons. 1) to get him more playing time and experience to improve his rebounding and staying out of foul trouble. 2)i dont know exactly how the expansion draft works, but i know that we cant protect everyone, and if we leave him over there for one more year, it may make us able to protect him, or some1 else. same could go for one of our draft picks if we let them play in europe for a year.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Need to Win Now...*

I think Songaila will help us win basketball games now, so we should bring him back this year. Golden State will probably take Ridnour, and Seattle will probably take Barbosa. But I wouldn't be so sure Barbosa will be taken that high. Seattle has a lot of needs, and Barbosa's English needs a lot of work. Rarely are 4-5 point guards taken in the lottery-mid first round area, and there are a lot of big bodies available there. So we'll see. 

As for the expansion next year, let's assume we can protect 7. Pierce and Antoine are really the only players worth protecting. Here's one scenario:

P1 Pierce
P2 Antoine
P3 Bremer
P4 Battie
P5 Songaila
P6 Draft Pick 1
P7 Draft Pick 2

Eric Williams will be a free agent, but we could protect him and leave Songaila off. If we lose him to Charlotte, oh well. Winning now is more important.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

*Re: Need to Win Now...*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I think Songaila will help us win basketball games now, so we should bring him back this year. Golden State will probably take Ridnour, and Seattle will probably take Barbosa. But I wouldn't be so sure Barbosa will be taken that high. Seattle has a lot of needs, and Barbosa's English needs a lot of work. Rarely are 4-5 point guards taken in the lottery-mid first round area, and there are a lot of big bodies available there. So we'll see.
> 
> As for the expansion next year, let's assume we can protect 7. Pierce and Antoine are really the only players worth protecting. Here's one scenario:
> ...


I am positive you can protect 8, thats what ive been hearing , just 8


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

*Celtics Workouts (ESPN Insider)...*



> Celtics: Sofoklis Schortsantis, Malick Badiane and Paccelis Morlende worked out for the Celtics on Monday. Russian forward Viktor Khryapa, Matt Bonner and Brandon Hunter will be in Boston today.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

how did they do?

i hope they like badiane at least half as much as i do

i like this guy, i really really do


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

According to today's Boston Herald, this week the Celtics will be working out Sofoklis Schortsantis, Malick Badiane, Paccelis Morlende, Matt Bonner, Brandon Hunter and Victor Khryapa.

This list suggests to me that the Celtics are seriously considering trading down, since there will be better players than Morlende, Bonner or Hunter available at #20.

I also like Ainge's thinking, since with the exception of Morlende, a pg from France, all of those guys are big. I hadn't really considered Hunter as a possible Celtics pick, but he is 6-8 260 and led the nation in rebounding. Bonner is a local kid (NH) who had a good senior year at Florida and played well in Chicago.

To respond to a few things others have said, Lampe is a legit 7-footer with skills. He will not slip below the top ten, so forget about him unless the Celtics trade up. One big guy who might slip is Chris Kaman. Reportedly his workouts have been mediocre. Also, he has short arms. His wingspan, as measured in Chicago, was only 6'11". In contrast, David West, who stands 6-8 1/4 barefoot (6-9 1/2 in sneakers), has a 7'4" wingspan.

The sliders will be guys like Dwayne Wade, Jarvis Hayes and Reece Gaines. I do not want Wade: he is Delk without the NBA 3-point range. Barbosa, Ridnour and Hinrich may also slip, depending on how their workouts go. Reportedly Barbosa has a funny looking shot, is not a great passer and does not know English. 

Collison may slip into the mid 20's or even out of the first round. In Chicago, each player is tested to see how many times he can bench press 185 pounds. Collison could only life the bar 4 times, a very bad performance by a guy who is supposed to be a strong low post player. In contrast, Jason Keep did 27 reps, Travis Hansen did 17 and Darko Milicic did 14.

Assuming the Celtics stand pat, I would take one of the following at #16: Sweetney (likely gone, but who knows?)Schortsantis, Diaw, Badiane. I think at least one of those players will be available.

At #20 I would obviously take one of the guys I was looking at for #16 if he were still around. If not, I would look at David West, Victor Khryapa and Zarko Cabarkapa. West's stock is rising after the tale of the tape in Chicago.

As for the point guard situation, I would use the $2M exception to sign Darrell Armstrong, Speedy Claxton or Rafer Alston. Erick Strickland and Earl Boykins are also possibilities. Then I would invite Jermaine Boyette, Steve Blake and Will Solomon to camp.

Morlende may also go undrafted. His stock is high now because he's French and so people automatically compare him to Parker, who is playing well in the NBA finals. If Parker has a few bad games, Morlende's stock may drop.

If Ainge thinks he has to draft a pg, he might as well take Troy Bell at #20. Bell is just as good as Hinrich, Ridnour or Banks. When the Pistons worked him out, Joe Dumars commented that Bell had enough athleticism and toughness to be a defensive back in the NFL. I doubt if anyone is saying that about the other three, although Banks is a pretty good athlete too. But Banks does not shoot as well as Bell.

I was high on Marcus Moore, but he was mediocre in Chicago and will likely return to Washington State for his senior year unless he gets a first round guarantee, which is highly unlikely.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> According to today's Boston Herald, this week the Celtics will be working out Sofoklis Schortsantis, Malick Badiane, Paccelis Morlende, Matt Bonner, Brandon Hunter and Victor Khryapa.
> 
> This list suggests to me that the Celtics are seriously considering trading down, since there will be better players than Morlende, Bonner or Hunter available at #20.
> ...


I would rather have Hinrich then Bell. Hinrich has the range and is 6'3. He might slip depending on the stock of Ford (which has been dropping). If that means using the 16th pick thats fine and worth it. There are only going to be 3 players taken inbetween picks so we could still get a very good big man, that you have already listed. Also the players they work out could be for signing them when they go undrafted, i dont know where hunter is expected to go but he would be a good FA pick after the draft.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>goNBAjayhawks</b>!
> 
> 
> I would rather have Hinrich then Bell.


Not me. We already have our guy from Kansas. We don't need another.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> Not me. We already have our guy from Kansas. We don't need another.


The more Jayhawks the better lets get Hinrich, Collison, Vaugn (FA), and Pollard for a post presence.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>goNBAjayhawks</b>!
> 
> 
> The more Jayhawks the better lets get Hinrich, Collison, Vaugn (FA), and Pollard for a post presence.


You forgot LaFrenz


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> You forgot LaFrenz


Yah and Manning but really Vaugn, Pollard, and the Rooks would be good pick ups but La frentz is to soft and we need a banger and a physical presence, but i still wouldnt mind if there was an all jayhawk NBA Team, and hey the C's were almost an all UK Wilcat team before pitino left.


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>goNBAjayhawks</b>!
> 
> 
> The more Jayhawks the better lets get Hinrich, Collison, Vaugn (FA), and Pollard for a post presence.


Sign Ryan Robertson. He is tearing it up in Holland.:laugh:


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

Yah thats what i have heard, he was with Sac-town and i think Utah a little so he could ball in the NBA as a 5 minute man. And Jeff Boshcee wouldnt mind. He wanted to take a year off to complete school. Maybe he can get in the NBDL and shoot his way into the NBA.   

And with the Jazz rebuilding lets go get ostertag and we can move Battie to the 4  :laugh:


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

Bremer/Vaugn/Delk/Hinrich
Pierce/Robertson
Walker/McCarty
Battie/Collison
Ostertag/Pollard/


IR:
Boshcee
Manning even if he retires, who cares 
Baker<---:upset:


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> This list suggests to me that the Celtics are seriously considering trading down, since there will be better players than Morlende, Bonner or Hunter available at #20.


Yes. I would either take the best available at 16 and then trade 20 for 2 second round picks and a future #1 or 2 future #2's


OR


If there are no guys that they are truly enamored of, either trade up or trade both picks for a couple of second round picks and future #1's. Imagine if we have Chicago, Denver's, etc. first round pick next year. 


With the 2003 second round picks I would take Dahntay Jones AND Marcus Banks or Chris Thomas.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> 
> 
> With the 2003 second round picks I would take Dahntay Jones AND Marcus Banks or Chris Thomas.


I like Dahntay Jones also. Very good athlete. I also like some of the bigger players: Brian Cook, Nswondu-Amadi, Jerome Beasley and even James Lang, who played well in Chicago. The tape revealed that Lang is only 6-8, but he may still be growing. There are also Mario Austin and Brandon Hunter, both of whom have been worked out by the Celtics.

As for guards, I have no problem with taking Banks early in the 2nd round, although he sounds like a guy with a first round guarantee. Hopefully it is not from the Celtics. From all reports Jameer Nelson also played will in Chicago, and even Troy Bell may drop.

One final name: Luke Walton. From all reports he was the best passer at the Chicago camp.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NE sportsfan</b>!
> how did they do?
> 
> i hope they like badiane at least half as much as i do
> ...


Really....have you seen him play??? Let Danny do his job. He is very smart and works his butt off. He will make good choices. Badiane MIGHT be one of them.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> Really....have you seen him play??? Let Danny do his job. He is very smart and works his butt off. He will make good choices. Badiane MIGHT be one of them.


no i havent seen him play, and i never said that i could do better than danny or that i should take his job. i like what i have read about the guy, and what i am saying is a hope that it translates onto the court and danny likes what he sees as i liked what i read.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Sorry, Brother in Green*

I thought I sensed a tinge of Danny Disapproval from you earlier. I liked what I read in the Chad Ford article about Badiane, too. If Amare can come in as a young PF, maybe we could get some production from our draft pick, right? I mean Carlos Boozer was a 2nd rounder, so it's not impossible for our pick to do well.


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## NE sportsfan (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Sorry, Brother in Green*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I thought I sensed a tinge of Danny Disapproval from you earlier. I liked what I read in the Chad Ford article about Badiane, too. If Amare can come in as a young PF, maybe we could get some production from our draft pick, right? I mean Carlos Boozer was a 2nd rounder, so it's not impossible for our pick to do well.


exactly.

and no, im not a danny disappriver. i reamain hopeful that danny will be able to get us through the baker mess and into a championship team. and i will withhold all judgement until he actually does something, and his decision has had time to take effect.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Luke Ridnour*

It's interesting that Ridnour is leading this poll. While he is the player I think I would want to see the least of the four, I think he may have a chance of dropping to 16. Barbosa might not.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Ridnour is dropping like a stone because people are figuring out what should have been obvious in the first place: he is unathletic and will have trouble guarding NBA point guards.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

> I like Dahntay Jones also. Very good athlete. I also like some of the bigger players: Brian Cook, Nswondu-Amadi, Jerome Beasley and even James Lang, who played well in Chicago. The tape revealed that Lang is only 6-8, but he may still be growing. There are also Mario Austin and Brandon Hunter, both of whom have been worked out by the Celtics.


I agree- Lang would be a good idea. He's only 6'8, but has a wingspan of like 7'6 or something ridiculous like that. He may even be able to play the C spot in the Eastern conference, ala Kurt Thomas or Antonio Davis. He is a project though.......


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Those Players you mentioned, Louie*

would be a waste at 16--which is what this thread is about.

Maybe if they can pick up a 2nd rounder in trade.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Those Players you mentioned, Louie*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> would be a waste at 16--which is what this thread is about.
> 
> Maybe if they can pick up a 2nd rounder in trade.


The list of players in Louie's post was my list. It was in response to speculation that the Celtics might trade down to get at least one second round pick. It was a list of players they might look at in the second round.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Knicks anyone? 

They have 3 2nd rounder, how about we try to get 1 or 2?


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## BamaZeus (Jun 4, 2003)

What would the Knicks want for one or two of those picks though? Aren't they in worse salary cap hell any anyone else right now? I think the last thing they can afford is another big contract.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BamaZeus</b>!
> What would the Knicks want for one or two of those picks though? Aren't they in worse salary cap hell any anyone else right now? I think the last thing they can afford is another big contract.


I don't think they care much about the money....

But I was thinking of giving them our number 20 for 2 2nd rounders.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think they care much about the money....
> ...


I proposed this in a post I made a couple of weeks ago. We should look at the teams with multiple second rounders, we could get some steals in the 2nd round: Bell, Dahntay Jones, Brian Cook, etc.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Barbosa will not slip past hte Sonics at #14


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

I actually hope Seattle grabs Barbosa.

He sounds like he has great upside and would be perfect on a rebuilding young team like the Sonics. He has a lot more work ahead of him than the American point guards do. He has a new language, culture to learn not to mention that he will be playing the toughest position for rookies to learn. 

I would rather see the C's get an experienced point through free agency (Claxton, or Armstrong) whoever falls to them from Ridnour, Hinrich, or Gaines.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*So far....*

It looks like 3 or maybe all 4 of these guys could be available, but at least three, and Barbosa is the leader of the pack. A veteran FA point guard might also be a good idea, but Barbosa is an intriguing rookie that could be groomed.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

So truth what do you think of ridnour?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Ridnour*

Well, his stock is dropping because of his physical stature and size. He may not be a fit for the Celtics, unless they totally change their style. Perhaps drafting him would signal that they have decided to go uptempo a little more. If they do take him, it would be at #16, then they would get Pavlovic at #20. I would expect that he would get 20-25 minutes a game the first season, so I don't think he could get 7 assists a game, but maybe 5 or 6. I like him.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

A true pass first PG with good speed (Ridnour) could rack up the assists on the Celtics. Ridnour would be good for 3 assist a game just to Pierce alone, and probably another 3 to Walker, then you get 2 on the break and he's got 8.


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## el_raulin (Jun 5, 2003)

*Ridnour*

I think he should be good for 5 assists in his rookie season. He will be sharing time with Delk and Bremer that are stronger than him and more athletic and are coach favorites... That's in the case Ridnour winds up in Boston.

Ridnour and Pavlovic or Hayes will be an intriguing draft.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

*Zornan Planinic*

What about Zornan Planinic at the 20? He was balling up all the other PG's he worked out with, with the exception of Kirk Hinrich (the real deal), that includes Ridnour and Gaines and he is a big PG. His stock is rising and we could stash him away if we wanted. But he should be able to contribute immediatly to some extent


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Could be a great pick at 20*

The buzz on him is pretty good. It will be interesting to see next week's mocks. He could be a consensus first rounder by then.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

*Re: Could be a great pick at 20*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> The buzz on him is pretty good. It will be interesting to see next week's mocks. He could be a consensus first rounder by then.


He is on mine, so i think he definitly is worth the pick My Mock


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Your Mock*

Is not only credible, but intriguing....Good Job!


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

I think we should go big first. My thought is Collison, he is unselfish, smart, he boards, and works hard so he will bulk up and get that strength he is lacking. The with the 20 we go after one of these PG's. (Planinic, Ridnour, Banks). That will fill our needs. That would be a productive draft.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

*Re: Your Mock*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Is not only credible, but intriguing....Good Job!


Thank you, I take it seriously and plan for the shockers. Its like picking the NCAA tourney, except i always go for KU :no: :dead:


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*So far....*

We've had better luck with KU players than UK players...


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

Don't the Celtics play in Kentucky? (Walker,Delk,McCarty, and Mercer)

Our draft if Pitino was still around:

16.Marquis Estill
20.Keith Bogans


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Kentucky Players*

Uh, you left out Reggie Hanson and Wayne Turner....


Our draft if Pitino was still around....

16) Sol Smith

20) Ashley Judd


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Combine Numbers*

Ridnour is going to be there at the 16. His combine numbers are scaring off some teams. The question is, does Boston want him? I say not at 16; maybe at 20 if he's still there.


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## jbs (May 4, 2003)

This draft is shaping up to be very interesting. There is a lot of intriguing talent that will certainly slip to 16th.
I think that there is a chance that Sweetney falls to 16th. Most have Milwaukee taking him at 12 but if they don't do that he could easily fall to 16. If Sweetney is gone I think we should go with Collison. We really need a power forward.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Sweetney is Sweet....*

But he will be long gone...And if he hears that he won't be picked in the top say, 13, he might go back to Georgetown. I don't think he has an agent. Forget about Sweetney. I think Collison will be there, though.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

You guys seem awfully high on Sweetney, and there was a lot of criticism that came around when reports came saying Collison only got 185 4 times. Well, now the reports were proven wrong and Collison actually got it 8 times once, and 11 times a different time, but Sweetney only got it 3 times. This could help drop Sweetney, and he might still be available. Right now it looks like Collison will be gone, but who knows. This draft is incredibly unpredictable. I think they need to pick up Ridnour DEFINTELY if he's still around at 20, at least if they don't sign a different PG.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Yeah, the strength thing is interesting*

Only 3 reps...Could drop him down, but I doubt it. Of course, he could always go back to school, too.

Ridnour at 20 sounds OK.


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## lochdoun (Jun 11, 2003)

Draft Status as seen on ESPNews:

Ridnour and Hindrich had terrible workouts and could slip to us. Troy Bell actually had the best workout out of all of the prospects. He might be a possibility at 20. No 16 remains a mystery so far and Sweetney only seems to be moving on up, so count him out.


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## jbs (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Sweetney is Sweet....*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> But he will be long gone...And if he hears that he won't be picked in the top say, 13, he might go back to Georgetown. I don't think he has an agent. Forget about Sweetney. I think Collison will be there, though.


Yes, you are probably right. Sweetney says in this article on ESPN ( http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1566048 ) that he is trying to get guaranties that he will go in the lottery.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

Now is the time where we are going to see sum guyz puLL out and this cud prove to affect the outcome of this draft significantLy........


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## el_raulin (Jun 5, 2003)

*From the original survey*

Nick Collison is on the rise... many believe that he is a lottery pick. Don't think he will be there at 16 right now.

Barbosa has dropped big. He is projected to slip past 20. But not too far from 20 though.

Badiane has cooled off. He should be in the 20's also, maybe second round.

My feel is Ridnour is the guy that is going to be bumped from the lottery and i have the Sonics and Magic are going to pass him up. Gaines and Banks are better ranked right now.

Should we pick him @ 16? Or try to grab either him or Barbosa at 20?

According to celtics.com Pavlovic had a second workout with Boston. You can see a picture of him there also. I think he is the guys the celtics are going to pick @ 16, unless the get very impressed by Diaw and pick him @ 20.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: From the original survey*



> Originally posted by <b>el_raulin</b>!
> Nick Collison is on the rise... many believe that he is a lottery pick. Don't think he will be there at 16 right now.
> 
> Barbosa has dropped big. He is projected to slip past 20. But not too far from 20 though.
> ...








I Liek what I have heard about PavLovic...16th pick wouLd be nice for him........


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