# Darko



## Brian.

> Needless to say, Darko Milicic didn't win any favors with the coaching staff with his lackluster nine-minute effort in the 110-82 romp over Chicago on Friday.
> 
> What he did win, most likely, was more bench time.
> 
> "I noticed the same thing you noticed," coach Flip Saunders said, when asked about Milicic's 2-point, 2-rebound performance. "I told him and I have told all of our players -- nothing is given. You earn your minutes. You earn what you get. What we're going to do is put guys on the floor that are going to compete on a daily basis."
> 
> This is the second time in three weeks that Saunders has expressed concern over Milicic's dispirited play. He removed him from the rotation on Dec. 3, after a series of bad outings, the last being against the Knicks.
> 
> *On Friday, Milicic was noticeably passive, particularly on the defensive end. He drew the ire of the coaching staff when he failed to go after a loose ball that had hit off his hands*.


http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051218/SPORTS0102/512180393/1127

My beef with Darko this whole time has been his lack of hustle and desire. LB noticed this and so has Saunders. You would think that two years on the bench would make him hungry but it hasn't. If he never figures this out he will be nothing more then a marginal player in this league.


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## MLKG

I find it hard to worked up over this kind of thing.

As lethargic as he has always looked in garbage time, he has always played hard when he gets real minutes. 

He's not doing himself any favors, but at the same time it really doesn't mean anything. 

Supposedly he played his way out of the rotation, but I never thought he looked that bad. Whatever.


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## MemphisX

I think it is to the point of Darko is never going to make strides in Detroit. Too much crap went down under LB and it has just made the situation unworkable (heh). I think Detroit should del him and try to get someone that can help them win a title this year and maybe next. The alternative is for Joe D. To get stubborn on the whole situation and let Darko leave as a RFA.


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## Midnight_Marauder

I have lost all respect for Darko actually...not because of his play on the court....but that terrible haircut and pornstache he has going right now....dude looks creepy as hell...I wouldnt let him watch my kids....thats for sure


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## xPAGANx

Midnight_Marauder said:


> I have lost all respect for Darko actually...not because of his play on the court....but that terrible haircut and pornstache he has going right now....dude looks creepy as hell...I wouldnt let him watch my kids....thats for sure


The guy gets a lot of shyt as it is when everyone chants "Darko..."

I kind of feel bad for him. I really wish he would get out there and get the job done so he could feel positive about people chanting his name.

I know I wouldn't enjoy going to work with all that pressure.


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## Lope31

xPAGANx said:


> The guy gets a lot of shyt as it is when everyone chants "Darko..."
> 
> I kind of feel bad for him. I really wish he would get out there and get the job done so he could feel positive about people chanting his name.
> 
> I know I wouldn't enjoy going to work with all that pressure.


:laugh: I read this, thought about it, and laughed, because I work in a lumber yard and secretly I wish people would chant my name as I pile 2x4's.


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## MLKG

Midnight_Marauder said:


> I have lost all respect for Darko actually...not because of his play on the court....but that terrible haircut and pornstache he has going right now....dude looks creepy as hell...I wouldnt let him watch my kids....thats for sure


I thought it was brilliant the first night, then I realized he was serious. File under "chose to ignore".


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## rainman

its like a sidebar to the whole team success there. i think its safe to say he isnt going to respond to sitting for 2 hours and then go diving for loose balls when he gets in the game, he's not that type of a player, i guess the question is would melo or bosh or wade be any differant or would they pout about things not going their way. i think as an organization they have to be getting close to the point where they can say is there a guy out there that can make this team better for the next couple of years that it would make sense to move darko for. i still think there are a lot of teams that would want darko to play the post, teams like new orleans,atlanta,golden state, maybe even phoenix and seatte. i think its time for the pistons to trade the guy, this soap opera is getting pretty worn out.


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## xPAGANx

rainman said:


> its like a sidebar to the whole team success there. i think its safe to say he isnt going to respond to sitting for 2 hours and then go diving for loose balls when he gets in the game, he's not that type of a player, i guess the question is would melo or bosh or wade be any differant or would they pout about things not going their way. i think as an organization they have to be getting close to the point where they can say is there a guy out there that can make this team better for the next couple of years that it would make sense to move darko for. i still think there are a lot of teams that would want darko to play the post, teams like new orleans,atlanta,golden state, maybe even phoenix and seatte. i think its time for the pistons to trade the guy, this soap opera is getting pretty worn out.


I think you are right. I would like to see Darko traded for his sake. I really hope the guy can get out there and have some fun somewhere that can use him.


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## Brian.

> About his sluggish performance on Friday, he said, "I was cold. Coming in the fourth quarter, I have to warm up."
> 
> Saunders wasn't buying that excuse.
> 
> *"Everybody is different," he said. "I know when I was 20 it didn't take me long to warm up. The bottom line is, being a professional athlete your job is to play when you go on the floor. Whether you have to jog or stretch or whatever, you have to be prepared to play when you step on that floor. That's not just for him but for everybody."*


This is from that same article


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## Brian.

rainman said:


> its like a sidebar to the whole team success there. i think its safe to say he isnt going to respond to sitting for 2 hours and then go diving for loose balls when he gets in the game, he's not that type of a player,


Maybe someone needs to tell Darko that what he does in practice and the time he does get on court determines his playing time. Why the hell would you give Darko any important minutes when he acts like he doesn't care when he is on the court?


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## rainman

Brian said:


> Maybe someone needs to tell Darko that what he does in practice and the time he does get on court determines his playing time. Why the hell would you give Darko any important minutes when he acts like he doesn't care when he is on the court?



first of all i will assume you arent at the pistons practices to see what goes on there. seems to me when he started a few games at the end of last season he did well and he played well for the sebian team over the summer. all i'm saying is it aint working there, maybe he stinks in which case a smart gm would cut his losses and take advantage of what i think is his pretty high trade value, my guess is he will stay there for somemore time and eventually either be traded or leave in free agency. i think he has the ability to be a good center in the league, maybe not the next great thing but potentially a double double guy who could someday lead the league in blocks, it just wont be in detroit.


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## Brian.

rainman said:


> first of all i will assume you arent at the pistons practices to see what goes on there. seems to me when he started a few games at the end of last season he did well and he played well for the sebian team over the summer. all i'm saying is it aint working there, maybe he stinks in which case a smart gm would cut his losses and take advantage of what i think is his pretty high trade value, my guess is he will stay there for somemore time and eventually either be traded or leave in free agency. i think he has the ability to be a good center in the league, maybe not the next great thing but potentially a double double guy who could someday lead the league in blocks, it just wont be in detroit.


Your right that I am not at the piston practices but from what I read and hear now from two different coaches that Darko doesn't practice hard. I tend to believe that. As for the few good games from last season it was one. It was against the hawks and that great frontline of Tom Gugliotta and Jason Collier. I am glad he played well on the serbian team too bad he isn't playing against much NBA talent if any. He absolutely sucked during the summer league. He played pretty well during training camp but has now reverted back to the old Darko. He is an excellent blocker but other then that and passing he doesn't have much going for him right now. Again I wouldn't have an issue with him if when he went out there he played with some fire and hustle but he doesn't.


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## rainman

Brian said:


> Your right that I am not at the piston practices but from what I read and hear now from two different coaches that Darko doesn't practice hard. I tend to believe that. As for the few good games from last season it was one. It was against the hawks and that great frontline of Tom Gugliotta and Jason Collier. I am glad he played well on the serbian team too bad he isn't playing against much NBA talent if any. He absolutely sucked during the summer league. He played pretty well during training camp but has now reverted back to the old Darko. He is an excellent blocker but other then that and passing he doesn't have much going for him right now. Again I wouldn't have an issue with him if when he went out there he played with some fire and hustle but he doesn't.



lets say i agree with your whole argument, why then wouldnt they try to move him, if someone is willing to give you an al harrington or a desmond mason or a shane battier(just throwing some names out there) why not make the move.


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## Tom

i really think darko can be good. He got a heavy dose of a Larry Brown beat down. He needs a change of venue...Utah maybe :biggrin:


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## rainman

Tom said:


> i really think darko can be good. He got a heavy dose of a Larry Brown beat down. He needs a change of venue...Utah maybe :biggrin:


i agree, the home faithful will say they dont need to play him and they dont need to do anything but i think a player,especially a top draft pick, needs at some point to play. i'm not sure what utah would be willing to give up, maybe filler and a high draft pick. a matt harpring would probably be a great addition of the bench.


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## Tom

That would be a good deal all around. Piston need someone to do what they are waiting for Delfino to do...score off the bench.


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## froggyvk

Darko needs to be put in a Zaza Pachulia situation.


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## rainman

froggyvk said:


> Darko needs to be put in a Zaza Pachulia situation.


sounds like a good title for a movie, kind of amazes me that on a monday night in late december the kid cant get off the bench in a 56 minute game. no wonder he doesnt give a ****. i thought it might change when brown left but its the same scenario, give him spotty pt followed by little or no pt and then ***** when he doesnt set the world on fire. just trade the guy this is a lose lose situtation for both parties. dont you have any connections there froggy.


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## ian

I think Darko will be getting PT again soon, this is just a little bump in the road. No need to change teams


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## NuffE

rainman said:


> its like a sidebar to the whole team success there. i think its safe to say he isnt going to respond to sitting for 2 hours and then go diving for loose balls when he gets in the game, he's not that type of a player, i guess the question is would melo or bosh or wade be any differant or would they pout about things not going their way. i think as an organization they have to be getting close to the point where they can say is there a guy out there that can make this team better for the next couple of years that it would make sense to move darko for. i still think there are a lot of teams that would want darko to play the post, teams like new orleans,atlanta,golden state, maybe even phoenix and seatte. i think its time for the pistons to trade the guy, this soap opera is getting pretty worn out.



I feel if hes not putting in 100.10% everytime he steps on the floor, he could be a bad cell for the pistons roster.


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## Stefan Nellemoes

Hey guys, Nets fan here - posting at your section for the first time.

I am big Darko lover (not his lover, though), and I really want him to get some playing time - the sooner the better.

I didn't watch the game in which he played terrible - but, when you get 1-2 minutes every 3rd and 4th game, it's hard to maintain the passion and energy. It isn't funny sitting on the bench, and all of a sudden, your name is called and you have to deliver right away.

Flip can talk all day long about how he was when he was 20. I just wonder. Did Flip also get one full game over the entire season, and playing thousands of miles away from home, in a young age?

I still believe that Darko has what it takes to be a force in the league - he just needs playing time, but more important, he needs Flip and the rest of the coaching staff, to have faith in him.

Until then, the kidd can't deliver. Skills or no skills.


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## Lope31

I think all of us here are kind of unsure what to think of Darko Milicic. I thikn it's become apparent that, although Darko may still turn out to be a good player, it won't happen in Detroit.


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## cambyblockingyou

He plays lazy in 2nd quarters also, not just garbage time. No excuse for that.


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## Brian.

Here is another Darko update



> Q . Almost halfway through his third season, can we officially call Darko Milicic a bust?
> 
> A . No. If the Pistons were to release him today or trade him, thus essentially acknowledging they've given up on him, then, yeah, you could call him a bust.
> 
> They haven't given up on him. He still is only 20. He still has NBA skill, and he does some things (quickness, footwork and passing skills) that most guys his size can't do.
> 
> There is still some serious upside to this guy. I don't think he's ever going to be a star, and given he was a No. 2 overall pick, most might use that and conclude he was a bust.
> 
> But I still see him having a long and somewhat productive career, perhaps one similar to that of a Rik Smits or Detlef Schrempf, guys who averaged around 14 points and eight rebounds over long careers.
> 
> The thing is, though, I don't think that will ever happen here.





> Q . Why do you say that?
> 
> A . *Because there's just been a bad mix of expectation and immaturity and negativity for him here, and I don't think it's in his heart or mind to fight through it. I get the sense he is angling for a clean start somewhere else.
> 
> He didn't respond to Larry Brown's tough love, and he's not responding to Flip Saunders' kinder, gentler approach. What can you do? He doesn't play or practice with any real passion or sense of urgency.
> 
> You watch him during the three-on-three scrimmages at the end of practice, and he's just going through the motions. Established veterans such as Dale Davis and Lindsey Hunter are playing these scrimmages like their lives are on the line, really competing hard. Milicic, meanwhile, mostly stands around the perimeter, jacking up three-point shots, not bothering to get inside and mix it up under the basket.*
> 
> He just seems resigned to the fact he never will be able to play a meaningful role on this team, and he's simply biding his time until his contract runs out.
> 
> Being a finesse player is not necessarily a fatal flaw. Being a perimeter-oriented 7-footer who can distribute the ball isn't always a bad thing, either. There are places where those types of attributes are welcomed and rewarded.
> 
> But not here. On a team of tough, hard-nosed players who grind night in and night out, Milicic's softer style just doesn't play very well -- not to the fans and not to his teammates.


http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060117/SPORTS0102/601170384/1127


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## Copper

He is and continues to be his own worst enemy, he acts as though he is deserving of minutes. This is the fear in drafting such a young and inexperienced player. He didnt have to earn anything in college or the D league, now he just assumes he'll get the minutes because of his contract. I hope he takes note of what Delfino has done. Delfino spent the entire year being ridiculed and having his toughness questioned, he went home got himself together and has come back ready to explode in whatever minutes he is given.


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## Lope31

As much as I love Darko Milicic and I love the Detroit Pistons I have to say that I've finally grown tired of his attitude. I say trade him and trade him fast, see what we can get for him. I'm almost relieved that the general outlook on Darko is that he is a ***** as opposed to people thinking he is a bust, because as proven by New Jersey last year, teams are not afraid to make a move for players with no heart. I want to get rid of him before he becomes both a bust and a *****. 

I'm always going to be a Darko Milicic fan, and I'd like to see him succeed but it's not going to happen here. Maybe he can get traded to Toronto and I won't have to root for anymore teams, here's hoping.


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## Charlie Brown

Trade Darko to NJ.

Filler and a first.


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## Mr. Hobbes

I'm a big Darko fan, but he's really starting to piss me off. Here's what I noticed from last nights NY game:

- Detroit runs a pick and roll for Darko. Darko bobbles the pass, but manages to get it under control. He tries to lay-up over the 7-foot Eddy Curry, who is the same height as him. He gets blocked, but the refs called it goaltending. He goes up finesse.

- He curls around some screens and catches a pass (coulda been a pass to Delfino) and shoots it from just inside the arc. Good range.

- Somehow made a tip-in with his left wrist. What does this mean? I don't know.

- He runs alongside a NY player (forgot who) on a one-man fastbreak. Instead of challenging the shot, he stops on a dime and guards his own body. Ugh.

- On a FT attempt by one of the Detroit players, he makes no attempt to go for the rebound, something a player like Robert Swift or Brandon Bass would have done, but he manages to get the ball anyway when it gets tipped to him. He was getting pushed back from the defensive pressure, but he made a nice pass to the cutting Maxiell, who got fouled. Good vision, passing.

There was probably more, but I don't remember the rest of it. So much talent, but no fiyah. You gotta have fiyah to succeed in this league. Even the robotic Duncan has some fiyah.


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## ChrisWoj

WTChan said:


> I'm a big Darko fan, but he's really starting to piss me off. Here's what I noticed from last nights NY game:
> 
> - Detroit runs a pick and roll for Darko. Darko bobbles the pass, but manages to get it under control. He tries to lay-up over the 7-foot Eddy Curry, who is the same height as him. He gets blocked, but the refs called it goaltending. He goes up finesse.


Agreed, he needs to really add a little aggression to his game. He's just not asserive enough with the ball in the post, he needs a lesson from Maxiell... if it ain't a powerslam, it ain't worth doin'.



> - He curls around some screens and catches a pass (coulda been a pass to Delfino) and shoots it from just inside the arc. Good range.


Are you saying he was wrong for snagging a pass that looked (from a camera angle, not court angle) to be for Delfino, or that he was cool on it for putting up a jumper with nice touch?



> - Somehow made a tip-in with his left wrist. What does this mean? I don't know.


That he can work with both hands? Or do you mean that it actually went off of his wrist?



> - He runs alongside a NY player (forgot who) on a one-man fastbreak. Instead of challenging the shot, he stops on a dime and guards his own body. Ugh.


Again, he needs to be more assertive, this time on the defensive end, agreed. He's a great shot-blocker but he's just too afraid of being pulled out of the game for fouls by Flip to go for it.



> - On a FT attempt by one of the Detroit players, he makes no attempt to go for the rebound, something a player like Robert Swift or Brandon Bass would have done, but he manages to get the ball anyway when it gets tipped to him. He was getting pushed back from the defensive pressure, but he made a nice pass to the cutting Maxiell, who got fouled. Good vision, passing.


He was completely boxed out. What are you talking about? I remember the exact play, he had a man boxing him out, might have been Frye, and it was a very good box. Darko managed to do something few players in the league can do and went over Frye's back without touching him, which shows his exceptional length (7'8" wingspan, remarkable). He took that rebound from the other guy and left him wondering what happened, then made a nice dish to Max. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that sequence of events.



> There was probably more, but I don't remember the rest of it. So much talent, but no fiyah. You gotta have fiyah to succeed in this league. Even the robotic Duncan has some fiyah.


Again, agreed.

I think you seemed to pull negatives out of nowhere there in some areas, but for the most part your message is right: Darko needs to play with some more assertiveness. Personally I think that he had some fire under him last night, he played hard and with some rarely seen hustle, making Brown look a little dumb for not playing him more the past two years. But despite that fire he was still cautious out there, afraid to get REALLY assertive around the hoop on both ends.

If he keeps playing hard, I think that the cautious attitude will fade away and we'll really start to see some nice things. The question is: Will he continue to play hard?

God, I hope so.


-Chris.


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## DetroitDiesel

Apparently after his performance against the knicks Dumars got several more calls about his availability. Are these other gm's idiots or not? I don't know, I think he will fit in this league somewhere, just not sure where.


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## Mr. Hobbes

ChrisWoj said:


> Are you saying he was wrong for snagging a pass that looked (from a camera angle, not court angle) to be for Delfino, or that he was cool on it for putting up a jumper with nice touch?


It was probably the camera angle. But it was a good thing that he showed us his range.



> That he can work with both hands? Or do you mean that it actually went off of his wrist?


It looked like it went of his left wrist (he's left handed). Probably doesn't mean anything, but he did show off his wingspan.



> He was completely boxed out. What are you talking about? I remember the exact play, he had a man boxing him out, might have been Frye, and it was a very good box. Darko managed to do something few players in the league can do and went over Frye's back without touching him, which shows his exceptional length (7'8" wingspan, remarkable). He took that rebound from the other guy and left him wondering what happened, then made a nice dish to Max. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that sequence of events.


I might be asking too much of him, but the aggressive rookies like to go to the swim move and slip behind and around the other player. Minor detail, and again he shows off his wingspan.

I'm very nitpicky when I watch young players. I even read their body language. it's the little things that count, ya know? Might be too much, but meh.


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## rainman

DetroitDiesel said:


> Apparently after his performance against the knicks Dumars got several more calls about his availability. Are these other gm's idiots or not? I don't know, I think he will fit in this league somewhere, just not sure where.



I remember one time watching a red sox game when i was back east visiting and the sox had a guy they were rumored to be trying to move. the guy hits a homerun and the announcer(think it was sean mcdonough), while the guy was rounding the basis says,"trade him". thats what i think of when darko has a good game.


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## Copper

Im sure Darko is still battling the LB voices in his head everytime he steps on the court. I think along with pretty much everyone else here that Darko needs to play with more fire, he needs some serious aggressiveness. I would love to put Bens aggressiveness and intensity into Darko. I dont think many can disagree that Darko has very good mobility and movement for a guy his size, I also think he has a nice looking jumper and the ball usually has nice rotation and release even if it doesnt go in. He just needs to tap into some inner deamon and become aggressive on the court.
Heard the interview with Flip today and he was saying how Darko has been showing good progress in practice recently and that he was gonna be true to his word and reward him with minutes when possible, thankfully the team put up huge numbers in the last 2 games and he got some extended minutes. Dale has looked horrible in his stints and if Darko is tryin hard in practice I would like to see him get any scraps behind Wallacex2 and Dyess.


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## Mr. Hobbes

I'd make him play one-on-one w/ Rasheed every day, first to 20 wins. This should make him better.


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## MLKG

WTChan said:


> - Detroit runs a pick and roll for Darko. Darko bobbles the pass, but manages to get it under control. He tries to lay-up over the 7-foot Eddy Curry, who is the same height as him. He gets blocked, but the refs called it goaltending. He goes up finesse.


I actually found that play encouraging.

The biggest weakness in his game has always been his hands. They are like rocks. It was a quick pass, and he was late recognizing it, but he snagged it out of the air with his right (off) hand and recovered nicely.

Again though, it's not news that Darko doesn't care in garbage time. People shouldn't expect him to change either. Never in any of his real minutes have I thought he's shown a lack of heart or a lack of hustle, that's good enough for me.


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## DTigre

I heard that on Stephan A's show he said Detroit was considering Kelvin Cato for Darko/Arroyo, true?


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## ChrisWoj

DTigre said:


> I heard that on Stephan A's show he said Detroit was considering Kelvin Cato for Darko/Arroyo, true?


They said it was OFFERED. They did not say Detroit Considered it.

A 13th year 6'11 Center?

We've already got a 15th year 6'11 Center. Why would we waste our time getting Cato? And giving up our backup point guard (even if Hunter is coming back, Hunter is not getting younger).

I still maintain trading him to PHX for one of the Suns' many 1st round picks next year would work out great for both sides. Darko/Amare on a front line would be amazing in three years.


-Chris.


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## HOWIE

While I know that many of you have voiced your opinion on Darko Milicic and some of you have said that he is a bust.

Darco Milicic hasn't seen hardly any playing time playing behind Ben & Rasheed Wallace. Not to mention that you also have Dale Davis & Antonio McDyess in front of him too. Joe Dumars has considered moving Milicic & change for Kelvin Cato? I heard that on an NBA show tonight at halftime of the Spurs vs. Heat game. Got me thinking about if Detroit was going to move him for Cato maybe Portland could offer something better......then I went to RealGM.com and got myself into all sorts of trouble. Here is what I came up with and you let me know if you think that it is a fair trade for both teams.

Detroit Trades:
Darko Milicic
Dale Davis (one year)

Portland Trades:
Ruben Patterson
Travis Outlaw

OR 

Portland Trades:
Ruben Patterson
Charles Smith
1st round pick 2006 (Detroit)

Would you as a Pistons fan do such a trade? 

Would a Patterson/Outlaw combo be viewed by Detroit as a greater catch than keeping the Milicic/Davis combo? Do you think that Detroit would do it? Better yet do you think that Portland would? Patterson would give you something now in his aggresive play and Outlaw is a bit of a athletic freak.

Tell me what you think.....


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## SolidGuy3

HOWIE said:


> While I know that many of you have voiced your opinion on Darko Milicic and some of you have said that he is a bust.
> 
> Darco Milicic hasn't seen hardly any playing time playing behind Ben & Rasheed Wallace. Not to mention that you also have Dale Davis & Antonio McDyess in front of him too. Joe Dumars has considered moving Milicic & change for Kelvin Cato? I heard that on an NBA show tonight at halftime of the Spurs vs. Heat game. Got me thinking about if Detroit was going to move him for Cato maybe Portland could offer something better......then I went to RealGM.com and got myself into all sorts of trouble. Here is what I came up with and you let me know if you think that it is a fair trade for both teams.
> 
> Detroit Trades:
> Darko Milicic
> Dale Davis (one year)
> 
> Portland Trades:
> Ruben Patterson
> Travis Outlaw
> 
> OR
> 
> Portland Trades:
> Ruben Patterson
> Charles Smith
> 1st round pick 2006 (Detroit)
> 
> Would you as a Pistons fan do such a trade?
> 
> Would a Patterson/Outlaw combo be viewed by Detroit as a greater catch than keeping the Milicic/Davis combo? Do you think that Detroit would do it? Better yet do you think that Portland would? Patterson would give you something now in his aggresive play and Outlaw is a bit of a athletic freak.
> 
> Tell me what you think.....


That is a tough question but I would do the trade. Darko has shown some bright spots but they are few and far between. I like the latter trade involving getting our first round pick back.


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## MLKG

Darko would never be traded for Kelvin Cato or anybody of similar stature. Detroit would gain nothing, why not just keep him?

If Dumars turned down a trade for Al Harrington he sure as hell isn't going to turn around and trade him for Kelvin Cato.


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## Cap

> Never in any of his real minutes have I thought he's shown a lack of heart or a lack of hustle, that's good enough for me.


That's pretty short sighted. Darko has never shown any passion on the court, or any real intensity, especially lately. And his own coach is questioning that, as did Brown subtlely last season.

I'd trade him for whatever you can get. If he can't break into the rotation for significant minutes in the many blowouts the Pistons have had this season....he's pretty much exactly what a lot of people thought he'd be; a bust.


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## Nocioni

Darvin Ham played as a center in phili :biggrin: LMAO


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## TheHeff

Mike luvs KG said:


> Darko would never be traded for Kelvin Cato or anybody of similar stature. Detroit would gain nothing, why not just keep him?
> 
> If Dumars turned down a trade for Al Harrington he sure as hell isn't going to turn around and him for Kelvin Cato.


Thank you who the hell thought up that trade most of been smoking crack thats got to be the worst offer for darko ever...am i just use to joe d getting the best of deals maybe but that trade is just uke:


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## ChrisWoj

EHL said:


> he's pretty much exactly what a lot of people thought he'd be; a bust.


People THOUGHT he'd be a great young center in the NBA. Hence the 2nd pick in the draft, hence people incredibly EXCITED when they heard Memphis got the 2nd pick in the draft (and it was sent to Detroit).


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## MLKG

EHL said:


> That's pretty short sighted. Darko has never shown any passion on the court, or any real intensity, especially lately. And his own coach is questioning that, as did Brown subtlely last season.


I've seen pretty much every minutes the guy has played in his career. The garbage ones and the real ones. In garbage time, he doesn't care. He never has, and he never will. When he gets in the game in meaningfull situations he does play hard and will mix it up with guys. He just doesn't get that chance very often.


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## Lope31

Kelvin Cato for Darko Milicic and Carlos Arroyo is the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. If Joe Dumars ever considered this trade I would have effectively lost all faith in him, you wouldn't think it possible, but the idea of trading our two young prospects for Kelvin Cato is the lamest of the lame. 

As far as the Blazer trade goes, no dice here. The only one that's even a possibility is the Outlaw trade, and that is solely because I want to see him dunk on somebody in a Pistons jersey. I don't see the benefit of trading Milicic for a first round pick either, especially if it's ours. There's no way the pick is better than 27 so what gives.

I've finally come to the conclusion that trading Milicic could be the best option, but we didn't hold on to him to give him up for the first piece of garbage somebody offers. Looking back on the Harrington trade, which I was opposed to, I would do it now in a second.


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## MemphisX

Lorenzen Wright, Bobby Jackson, 1st round pick

for

Darko and Carlos


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## ian

Mike luvs KG said:


> I've seen pretty much every minutes the guy has played in his career. The garbage ones and the real ones. In garbage time, he doesn't care. He never has, and he never will. When he gets in the game in meaningfull situations he does play hard and will mix it up with guys. He just doesn't get that chance very often.


This is pretty much true, though I think now and then he even shows intensity in garbage minutes -- like against the Knicks the other night. Maybe he's finally realizing that it's better to swallow your pride than wallow on the bench. Or not :clown:


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## Copper

ian said:


> This is pretty much true, though I think now and then he even shows intensity in garbage minutes -- like against the Knicks the other night. Maybe he's finally realizing that it's better to swallow your pride than wallow on the bench. Or not :clown:


 I hope you are right, I saw the Knicks game and was also impressed with the energy he showed...but weve seen it before from him where he plays that way one game then plays horribly the next. I dont care if he hits a single shot when he gets in the game, as long as he plays with energy and shows some fire I think the rest will come.


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## rainman

i noticed a rumor of darko to new jersey that supposedly they have been interested in him. i dont know what he would give jersey that kristic doesnt give them although i think everyone would agree his upside is greater, is there anything there that detroit would want in return, maybe a richard jefferson who could give the pistons a great 6th man off the bench.?????


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## Copper

If there was any chance of picking up RJ I would be all over it, but the chances of them parting with him for Darko and any of our bench is slim and none. There is a better chance of Darko staying here and becoming the next Bill Russell.


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## ChrisWoj

Copper said:


> If there was any chance of picking up RJ I would be all over it, but the chances of them parting with him for Darko and any of our bench is slim and none. There is a better chance of Darko staying here and becoming the next Bill Russell.


We missed our chance to get Richard Jefferson.

We drafted:


NBADRAFT.NET said:


> Versatile forward with both a post and perimeter game..... Has very good potential...... A 6-10 player with the ability to put the ball on the floor, create off the dribble, and knock down jumpshots with range.


This was RJ:


NBADRAFT.NET said:


> Not a great ball handler or passer but these skills are still developing. Shot can be inconsistent, and doesn't shoot well off the dribble. Statistics did not show continual improvement, granted the team around him improved, but the lack of development is a concern.


... God don't you just love hindsight?


-Chris.


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## SolidGuy3

Copper said:


> If there was any chance of picking up RJ I would be all over it, but the chances of them parting with him for Darko and any of our bench is slim and none. There is a better chance of Darko staying here and becoming the next Bill Russell.


I think Jefferson would want to start but he would be a great 6th man for us. The Pistons have
excellent chemistry right now. It seems like Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace and Wallace have been playing with each other since they were wearing diapers.


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## rainman

Copper said:


> If there was any chance of picking up RJ I would be all over it, but the chances of them parting with him for Darko and any of our bench is slim and none. There is a better chance of Darko staying here and becoming the next Bill Russell.


for jersey to get a darko and a delfino for jefferson would be a good move for both teams, vince carter gives the nets the flexibility to make a move, if they wanted they could play darko at the 4 and kristic at the 5, not sure if there is a two serbian rule in the nba(just kidding).


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## ChrisWoj

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=235647

I wrote an article concerning the entire Darko situation. Feel free to go and discuss.

By the way... I'm the new Pistons Columnist here at BBB.net, as well as the new Detroit Tigers columnist! Yayness!


-Chris.


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## NISMO

*Warriors might be intrested*

who would you want


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## Team Mao

Hey,
Look, I think everyone in the league is know fully aware that if Darko succeeds, it won't be with Detroit. The guy seems to hate the Pistons orginization for having to sit on the bench for the past few seasons. I understand why he has been on the bench, because the team is competing for championships every year, but never in the history of #2 picks has one of them had to sit on the bench for his first two seasons.

So here is my idea, maybe not what you're looking for but give me some feedback, let me know:

TO sends
Mike James, Jalen Rose, Morris Peterson, Rafael Araujo, Denver 1st, TO 2nd
Receives
Penny Hardaway, Darko, Nate Robinson

Detroit Sends
Darko, Arroyo
Receives 
MoPete, Mike James, Araujo, TO 2nd

Why for Detroit? MoPete gives you a solid backup at the 2/3 position who plays good defence and can shoot the 3 really well, roughly the same salary as Arroyo but shorter deal. Mike James gives you a great backup point who can get hot really fast and plays good d. Araujo gives you a big body underneath for whatever minutes might be available, he's on rookie contract for a year longer than Darko and he'd probably re-sign with Detroit, something that Darko won't do. Detroit can re-sign James if they want or deal him in a S&T. They get a high second round pick, which they can maybe use on a Euro prospect and let him develop there rather than bring in a late first rounder and have him sit on the bench and not play while collecting a paycheck.

NY sends
Hardaway, Robinson
Receives
Jalen Rose, Arroyo, Denver 1st


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## md6655321

Team Mao said:


> Hey,
> 
> Detroit Sends
> Darko, Arroyo
> Receives
> MoPete, Mike James, Araujo, TO 2nd



Thats just plain disgusting. I would trade away all three of those players for nothing just to have them off the team. I suppose Mike James is cool, but Arroyo is way better. Mo "score 81 on me" Pete doesnt do anything for me either, I'll take a young Delfino over him. And Araujo would be out of the league if wasnt for his rookie contract.


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## Lope31

Team Mao said:


> Detroit Sends
> Darko, Arroyo
> Receives
> MoPete, Mike James, Araujo, TO 2nd
> 
> Why for Detroit? MoPete gives you a solid backup at the 2/3 position who plays good defence and can shoot the 3 really well, roughly the same salary as Arroyo but shorter deal. Mike James gives you a great backup point who can get hot really fast and plays good d. Araujo gives you a big body underneath for whatever minutes might be available, he's on rookie contract for a year longer than Darko and he'd probably re-sign with Detroit, something that Darko won't do. Detroit can re-sign James if they want or deal him in a S&T. They get a high second round pick, which they can maybe use on a Euro prospect and let him develop there rather than bring in a late first rounder and have him sit on the bench and not play while collecting a paycheck.



Where do I sign? Mike James is better than Arroyo, Morris Peterson would do way more for us than Darko ever will and Araujo can be hired on as stadium security, there's no way he gets a jersey before Max or Acks.

EDIT: As much as I like this deal it doesn't strike me as something that I would go for right away. I'm sure we could get more for Darko, but I would be content if this is all that came of it.


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## ChrisWoj

Team Mao said:


> Hey,
> Look, I think everyone in the league is know fully aware that if Darko succeeds, it won't be with Detroit. The guy seems to hate the Pistons orginization for having to sit on the bench for the past few seasons. I understand why he has been on the bench, because the team is competing for championships every year, but never in the history of #2 picks has one of them had to sit on the bench for his first two seasons.
> 
> So here is my idea, maybe not what you're looking for but give me some feedback, let me know:
> 
> TO sends
> Mike James, Jalen Rose, Morris Peterson, Rafael Araujo, Denver 1st, TO 2nd
> Receives
> Penny Hardaway, Darko, Nate Robinson
> 
> Detroit Sends
> Darko, Arroyo
> Receives
> MoPete, Mike James, Araujo, TO 2nd
> 
> Why for Detroit? MoPete gives you a solid backup at the 2/3 position who plays good defence and can shoot the 3 really well, roughly the same salary as Arroyo but shorter deal. Mike James gives you a great backup point who can get hot really fast and plays good d. Araujo gives you a big body underneath for whatever minutes might be available, he's on rookie contract for a year longer than Darko and he'd probably re-sign with Detroit, something that Darko won't do. Detroit can re-sign James if they want or deal him in a S&T. They get a high second round pick, which they can maybe use on a Euro prospect and let him develop there rather than bring in a late first rounder and have him sit on the bench and not play while collecting a paycheck.
> 
> NY sends
> Hardaway, Robinson
> Receives
> Jalen Rose, Arroyo, Denver 1st


I would play Delfino/Evans over Mo Pete ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. No improvement at the swing area. Mike James would be an upgrade over Carlos Arroyo, sure. But Araujo really would never see the floor... ever. He'd be stuck in a Darko-like situation, we'd basically get less for him if we dealt him in the future than if we dealt Darko.

In the end this leaves us at the same spot we are in now with a worse potential deal down the road coming in. No reason to do this trade... at all.


-Chris.


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## Lope31

ChrisWoj said:


> I would play Delfino/Evans over Mo Pete ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. No improvement at the swing area. Mike James would be an upgrade over Carlos Arroyo, sure. But Araujo really would never see the floor... ever. He'd be stuck in a Darko-like situation, we'd basically get less for him if we dealt him in the future than if we dealt Darko.
> 
> In the end this leaves us at the same spot we are in now with a worse potential deal down the road coming in. No reason to do this trade... at all.
> 
> 
> -Chris.


I disagree with this, Morris Peterson could bring us more than either Evans or Delfino in my opinion.


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## Copper

I think Delfino is gonna be a stud once he gets a little time under his belt. He drives to the rack with a purpose and he has got a sweet touch on the ball. He is also workin his butt off on D lately, I wouldnt move him. Evans gives us alot of hustle and there is no way Mo Pete brings that....so no use in trading backwards.


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## Team Mao

Copper said:


> I think Delfino is gonna be a stud once he gets a little time under his belt. He drives to the rack with a purpose and he has got a sweet touch on the ball. He is also workin his butt off on D lately, I wouldnt move him. Evans gives us alot of hustle and there is no way Mo Pete brings that....so no use in trading backwards.


MoPete doesn't give hustle? Doesn't play D? I can understand reservations about Hoffa, but saying that Maurice Evans is better than MoPete is ridiculous. 

Face it, the Pistons need to trade Darko before the deadline or he loses his value. The resigning period is this offseason, the Pistons aren't going to resign him and Darko would do anything in his power to not resign with the team after what he's experienced there. Another team is going to want to have a long look/tryout with him before choosing to resign him. 

I understand that Darko was a 2 pick, but that was the past, the Pistons have been driving down his value from day one with their treatment of the guy. Of course he dogs it in garbage minutes, he hates the team and he wants to leave, I would do if I was a young player picked 2nd in the draft. Old guys might be content to sit on the bench and collect rings, but most young guys selected high in the draft want to play.

Really, the only thing keeping his price so high is hype.


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## MLKG

Detroit already picked up the option for Darko this summer. He will be a restricted free agent two summers from now.


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## ChrisWoj

Team Mao said:


> MoPete doesn't give hustle? Doesn't play D? I can understand reservations about Hoffa, but saying that Maurice Evans is better than MoPete is ridiculous.


No offence to Morris Peterson, but Maurice Evans is a tad younger, has a bit more muscle (shorter, but stronger and stockier), every bit as much athleticism, and a reputation for being a hard worker (unlike Peterson who has gained, like it or not, a reputation for bad conditioning habits). I don't mind Peterson, he's got a decent shot and works the baseline nicely... but Evans has a solid jumper (something I did not expect out of him when he signed) and works as a very nice change-up from Rip Hamiltons catch and shoot style, forcing defenses to adapt to his powerful drives to the basket mixed with three bombs from the corner spot.

Peterson is good, but I think that Evans' attitude and playing style fit the Pistons VERY well. Plus with Delfino coming along... Peterson just isn't needed here.


-Chris.


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## Copper

Team Mao said:


> *MoPete doesn't give hustle? Doesn't play D? I can understand reservations about Hoffa, but saying that Maurice Evans is better than MoPete is ridiculous.*
> 
> I was reffering more to Delfino, I wouldnt trade Darko and Delfino for mo Pete I think weve seen as good as Mo Pete is gonna get and we are just scratching the surface of Delfino. Mo Evans is a tough hard nosed sob and he has range, remember that the Pistons are in no hurry to make a trade, we dont need one. If it were next season and we were in danger of losing Dasrko then maybe we swing a trade if we are gonna lose him with nothing in return. But as things sit now I would continue to bring him along since he seems to be playing better and hope he warms to the idea of comin off the bench for another year or 2 before hes ready to jump into more minutes.


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## tranjsaic

As a Magic fan, I remember a game recently the announces brought up the rumor. I think the major selling point was the fact Cato's contract expires this year so you guys would get some cap relief.

Do you guys have money to sign big ben to a huge extension this summer?


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## ChrisWoj

tranjsaic said:


> As a Magic fan, I remember a game recently the announces brought up the rumor. I think the major selling point was the fact Cato's contract expires this year so you guys would get some cap relief.
> 
> Do you guys have money to sign big ben to a huge extension this summer?


You assume that Ben wants a huge extension. Go look up some info on the contract proceedings of Ben Wallace before you ask silly questions like that.


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## Copper

We can and Joe probably would sign Ben to a huge contract if we needed to, but Ben isnt the type of guy to hold a organization for randsom. He has stated over and over that he loves Detroit and wants to stay here and judging by the below average salaries of the recent signings I like the odds of Ben signing for just enough to keep him well paid and around par. As much as I would love to see us save as many $ as possible for future signings I think what Ben has done in the past and the fact that he has stuck by his current contract instead of doing what so many players do nowadays and try to wiggle every cent out of the team and renegotiate as soon as he plays well, I would totally understand paying him top dollar. But Ben as well as the rest of the players realize that they are so talented because they can afford to keep all their players because they dont have any of the huge Kobe or Shaq contracts that would limit them to one or two superstars and a bunch of scrubs.


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