# Has Lebron lost some of his athleticism?



## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

I was recently watching some of Lebron's old games in Cleveland the last 2-3 years and he looked like he had a much quicker first step, and his hops were off the chart. Now when I see him in Miami, it looks like he may have lost a little bit of his explosiveness. 

This doesn't make him a lesser player, but has anyone else notice this or is it just me.


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## Dmon00 (Apr 18, 2011)

pretty sure he gained more muscle to post up more, but he rarely does.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

I've never actually posted about it, but I have thought it sometimes. He still has crazy amounts of athleticism, but it just seems his head isn't as high above the rim as it used to be. It's not enough to effect his game, but it's just about noticeable.


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## Seanzie (Jun 9, 2003)

I think he's settling into that Michael Jordan using-less-athleticism-more-heady-play style that equated into championships for MJ.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

He still has it it's just not necessary for him to expound otherworldly efforts every night for his team to win anymore.

I mean sure he doesn't have that 19 year old lift but it's not a thread worthy amount of loss.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I think Dre has part of the answer. Sometimes, when Lebron goes for a dunk you will still see his head very high above the rim but he doesn't do it as often.

Also, I am sure he gained a lot of muscle too so that does make his first step slower.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Seanzie said:


> I think he's settling into that Michael Jordan using-less-athleticism-more-heady-play style that equated into championships for MJ.


How? MJ can play off the ball, can do catch an shoot James?


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Seanzie said:


> I think he's settling into that Michael Jordan using-less-athleticism-more-heady-play style that equated into championships for MJ.


Jordan winning championships had nothing to do with using less athleticism. He was still plenty athletic when he was winning championships and still dunking on people and blowing past people left and right. I think him winning championships had more to do with him ball hogging less and Pippen blowing up into a legit star.

Jordan started using less athleticism when he came back after retiring, but he was 32-33 years old at that point. Lebron James is 26.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Mike Brown ran him into the ground in his Cleveland years. It was anti-Spurs in terms of managing his minutes even 2 years ago when the team played well without him. It will be interesting to see if that will effect his athletic ability. The extra minutes hasn't seem to hurt the career length of other straight to NBA guys such as Kobe and KG but Lebron is one big dude and he started playing ridiculous minutes earlier then almost anybody


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I think once you're past 23-24 you are always losing athleticism. It's not a big loss but theres definitely changes.


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## Noyze (Oct 7, 2010)

Dre said:


> He still has it it's just not necessary for him to expound otherworldly efforts every night for his team to win anymore.
> 
> I mean sure he doesn't have that 19 year old lift but it's not a thread worthy amount of loss.


I'm gonna have to disagree. This has been brought up on other forums. He did pick up more muscle to post up but he lost quickness, not necessarily speed though. You'll notice that when he penetrates now he doesn't blow by people as much. *He gets that first step and then spins as the defender catches up to him*. Not an uncommon move for him in Cleveland but was seen alot less. Lol, I've seen people afraid to bring it up or candy coat it.

He needs to trade places with Bosh in their workout regiment this summer imo.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Good points in this thread. 

I think it's a combination of Lebron trying to rely on his athleticism less (ala MJ and Kobe), less of a need to play 100% all the time (Wade/Bosh on board), and some minor loss of speed/explosiveness due to his weight gain. 

Not even a freak like Lebron can get up to 260 lbs of pure muscle without losing a little quickness. Weight is still weight, even though it's all muscle.

That said, he is still one of the 10 fastest guys in the league in the open court when he wants to be. Although he strikes me as more of a north-south runner, than an east-west guy like say Rose or Rondo.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Drewbs said:


> Jordan winning championships had nothing to do with using less athleticism. He was still plenty athletic when he was winning championships and still dunking on people and blowing past people left and right. I think him winning championships had more to do with him ball hogging less and Pippen blowing up into a legit star.
> 
> Jordan started using less athleticism when he came back after retiring, but he was 32-33 years old at that point. Lebron James is 26.


Though, Lebron is nearing the age(27) when Kobe started using less of his athleticism.


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## Sleepepro (Oct 24, 2008)

He should shed some weight, his mobility and explosiveness will go down from here. He doesn't need to be 260 lbs, at 245-250 he'll be the same but with more mobility.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

He's using more of his power game in Miami, playing more 4 than he used to. So I think he's upped his strength and is probably emphasizing that over his speed, because even slowing down a smidgen, he can still get around anyone out there. He bullies past point guards, and power/small forwards are a long ways off him in speed.

He's also been focusing more on improving his jumper and post up game, more so than his iso-drive game. There was an article on NBA.com about his work this season off the court, and how people watching him on the court, may not really understand what's going on. He's changing his game up as the games go.

I think the end spot is going to be more of a Paul Pierce/Barkley power game, where he can hurt people with his strength and footwork in the post, and hit that rocker step j in their grills. He's definitely transitioning his game for when he really does lose his athleticism--which is something a lot people said he would never do, despite every single superstar of his level doing such.


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## Seanzie (Jun 9, 2003)

Drewbs said:


> Jordan winning championships had nothing to do with using less athleticism. He was still plenty athletic when he was winning championships and still dunking on people and blowing past people left and right. I think him winning championships had more to do with him ball hogging less and Pippen blowing up into a legit star.
> 
> Jordan started using less athleticism when he came back after retiring, but he was 32-33 years old at that point. Lebron James is 26.


You don't think that MJ's transition from being an athletic player who went all-out on every play to being a heady player who picked his spots didn't have anything to do with his winning six championships?

That's exactly what LeBron is able to do now on Miami. Now that he has a supporting cast worth something, he is able to subtly affect games through other aspects, then turn on the juice when he needs to.

For those of you saying that LeBron doesn't get around people, I'd love to hear exactly who it is that he doesn't get around. Sure, he doesn't put his head down and bull rush people as much anymore, but that doesn't mean he can't do it anymore. He's just settled into the ultimate version of what he was always supposed to be - a 6'9" 250 lbs. PG who plays outstanding defense, rebounds, and gets to the hoop when he wants to.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Three of Jordans championships came when he was still the most athletic player in the NBA.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> He's using more of his power game in Miami, playing more 4 than he used to. So I think he's upped his strength and is probably emphasizing that over his speed, because even slowing down a smidgen, he can still get around anyone out there. He bullies past point guards, and power/small forwards are a long ways off him in speed.
> 
> He's also been focusing more on improving his jumper and post up game, more so than his iso-drive game. There was an article on NBA.com about his work this season off the court, and how people watching him on the court, may not really understand what's going on. He's changing his game up as the games go.
> 
> I think the end spot is going to be more of a Paul Pierce/Barkley power game, where he can hurt people with his strength and footwork in the post, and hit that rocker step j in their grills. He's definitely transitioning his game for when he really does lose his athleticism--which is something a lot people said he would never do, despite every single superstar of his level doing such.


This.

Nobody did it better than MJ either. He was the most dominate ball in hand get my own player ever IMO in the history of the game. Yet when Pippen finally started to mature, Jordan gave Pippen more of the share of bringing the ball up, creating with the ball, and Jordan freaking mastered his post moves, moving with out the ball, etc A little piece of Jordans mastery. And after that point Pippen got that tag for being the Point Forward. Which was mainly due to Jordan sacrificing a portion of his game for the betterment of the team, and of course Jordan recognizing Pippen getting better, and being able to hold his own.


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## M.V.W. (Apr 2, 2011)

23AJ said:


> This.
> 
> Nobody did it better than MJ either. He was the most *dominant* ball in hand get my own player ever IMO in the history of the game. Yet when Pippen finally started to mature, Jordan gave Pippen more of the share of bringing the ball up, creating with the ball, and Jordan freaking mastered his post moves, moving with out the ball, etc A little piece of _Jordan's_ mastery. And after that point Pippen got that tag for being the Point Forward. Which was mainly due to Jordan sacrificing a portion of his game for the betterment of the team, and of course Jordan recognizing Pippen getting better, and being able to hold his own.


:yes:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

M.V.W. said:


> :yes:


M.V.W.

A lot of people forget that Michael Jordan won his first championship as the only all star on his team in 1991 taking down Magic Johnson and the Lakers. Jordan is the GOAT.


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## M.V.W. (Apr 2, 2011)

23AJ said:


> M.V.W.
> 
> A lot of people forget that Michael Jordan won his first championship as the only all star on his team in 1991 taking down Magic Johnson and the Lakers. Jordan is the GOAT.


I wasn't debating but rather correcting the word usage.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Jordan is the GOAT, but people tend to forget that Magic was abusing him in the post in that series.


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## EGarrett (Aug 12, 2002)

John said:


> How? MJ can play off the ball, can do catch an shoot James?





23AJ said:


> Nobody did it better than MJ either. He was the most dominate ball in hand get my own player ever IMO in the history of the game.


Can we at least make SOME effort to use punctuation and generally be coherent? I can't even figure out if some of these posts are complimenting or criticizing Jordan...


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

I think Lebron is maturing as a player. Lebron has made his mark and is content to just get the job done, verses making a spectacular, above the rim dunk.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Grammar police .. 

Instead of insulting people for their grammar and spelling, how about you use some restraint and deal with it. Besides I'm sure you all have plenty of your own flaws that you wouldn't want people pointing out and making you feel bad for.


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## Seanzie (Jun 9, 2003)

23AJ said:


> Grammar police ..
> 
> Instead of insulting people for their grammar and spelling, how about you use some restraint and deal with it. Besides I'm sure you all have plenty of your own flaws that you wouldn't want people pointing out and making you feel bad for.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Grammar police ..
> 
> Instead of insulting people for their grammar and spelling, how about you use some restraint and deal with it. Besides I'm sure you all have plenty of your own flaws that you wouldn't want people pointing out and making you feel bad for.


I dont mind as long as they get my points.

James sucks!


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Seanzie said:


>


Seanzie your ego is a little inflated ...


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

John said:


> I dont mind as long as they get my points.
> 
> James sucks!


John you rule!


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Game3525 said:


> Jordan is the GOAT, but people tend to forget that Magic was abusing him in the post in that series.


Magic is the GOAT. I may one day see a greater player, but I haven't yet. If I'd seen Wilt in his prime, rather than at the end of his run, I might have a different opinion, but my timeline is 1969 and forward, and in that time Magic is the greatest I've ever seen. Jordan's a close #2, but Magic was still better. Kids growing up in the last decade, though, will one day call LeBron the GOAT. That's just the way it goes.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> Magic is the GOAT. I may one day see a greater player, but I haven't yet. If I'd seen Wilt in his prime, rather than at the end of his run, I might have a different opinion, but my timeline is 1969 and forward, and in that time Magic is the greatest I've ever seen. Jordan's a close #2, but Magic was still better. Kids growing up in the last decade, though, will one day call LeBron the GOAT. That's just the way it goes.


Really? Video tapes tell me Magic doesnt play defense. All he does is he treats every PG he plays against doesnt have a 3 point shot and stand at the freethrow line and put his hands up like he was playing some post entry defense. I wish people like Marbury and Iverson was born in the era coz they at least will get the TV colorman to say "Magic is not known for his defense" then THE GOAT is out of the windows already. 

1969? I thought you are Pippen age in 1965, please clarify.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

John said:


> Really? Video tapes tell me Magic doesnt play defense.


No one did in those days. Defense didn't really make a comeback until the end of Magic's career. The ABA era opened the valves on offense, and from '75-'85 there was very little defense played in either league (and not even after the merger).

And Magic was basically LA's middle linebacker, or free safety (pick a football metaphor for a roving defender). Nixon and Cooper were the guys tasked with defending the more dangerous offensive guard, while LA handed Magic the responsibility of covering the least effective perimeter scorer. 

If Magic had been born a few years later, and spent the majority of his career in the defensive era, he would have played more defense. It just wasn't a huge priority during the regular season when he was playing. And really wasn't important until the Lakers reached the Finals and were playing some pretty good defensive teams, and he always managed to play acceptable D then.


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

EGarrett said:


> Can we at least make SOME effort to use punctuation and generally be coherent? I can't even figure out if some of these posts are complimenting or criticizing Jordan...


:whatever:


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## Bizzleton (May 1, 2011)

Lebron *IS* slowing down. I think he has gotten much too heavy since he arrived in Miami. He carries is weight well but I wouldn't be surprised if he were 280 lbs or slightly more. When he gets a running start he as athletic as anyone in the league ... but it's has been his first step, acceleration, and quickness that have suffered. He is not slowing because of age, I think it's simply weight. He's gotten to Miami and gotten a bit complacent with his "talents". That being said ... he is still the most talented (along with Kevin Durant and Dwight Howard) player in the league ... but also at times hes not the best player on his team. It is likely that he has been the focal point of every team he has been on, if you watch closely Lebron lacks fundamentals such as: Moving without the ball, moving the ball, and understanding when his team needs him to be a playmaker. I believe that D.Wade has a much higher basketball IQ as it relates to the understanding of what to do and when (as a result of 4? years of college and championship experience). With Lebron is all or nearly nothing ... either he is the focal point for the entire game in which case he will score 50 for you every single night or he often becomes reduced (in his mind) to a role player. Then when it comes time to take a game winning shot he tries to get up for the moment but the athleticism that he is accustomed to is just not there.


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## Smithian (Apr 3, 2006)

Let's remember Wade and especially LeBron are settling for more and more open mid range jumpers and less grinding it to the basket, where some of LeBron's awesome dunks came from.

Also, LeBron and Wade are still getting comfortable. As time went on this season you saw less plodding up and down the court and more big dunks and fun fast breaks.


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1-YcD5pQXQ

Well the above clip is from just one year ago, so I'm pretty sure he still has hops


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

He seems a lot stronger this year. He looks like a power forward now. He needs to pattern his mid range/post game after Z-Bo. Then he'd be unstoppable well into his middle 30s.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

well into his 30s? LeBron will be lucky to get 15 a game well into his 30s.


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## simply_amazing (Aug 23, 2009)

Yes.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

JT said:


> well into his 30s? LeBron will be lucky to get 15 a game well into his 30s.


lol


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## ClearlyTheExpert (May 3, 2011)

JT said:


> well into his 30s? LeBron will be lucky to get 15 a game well into his 30s.


Dude, Michael Jordan averaged 30.4 points in the 95-96 season as a 32/33 year old. LeBron will average 20+ points a game when he's in his 30's.


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## BringingTheHeat (May 4, 2011)

Naw, guy is still a tank.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

JT said:


> well into his 30s? LeBron will be lucky to get 15 a game well into his 30s.


Go flip some more haterburgers.


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## BringingTheHeat (May 4, 2011)

Heated said:


> Go flip some more haterburgers.


Agreed.:cheers:


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## BringingTheHeat (May 4, 2011)

He averaged 26.7 points 7.5 rebounds and 7 assists. Guy is still awesome with good players around him. The only way I see his production going down is because of him passing the ball more and stop taking as many shots a game.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

^He's not talking about stats though, he's talking about speed, quickness and vertical mainly.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

FeelinTheHeat said:


> Agreed.:cheers:


Welcome to the boards fellow heatian.


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