# Inquiry: ultras and basketball



## WonderPelekanos (Dec 17, 2002)

A thread about the organized fans all around the World. 
Personally, normally I can't stand them. The percentage of groups that go to the sport arenas with the purpose to destroy the real show, to have fights with other supporters is too high. 
Italian basketball knows this phenomen, without the same "continuity" of football (I guess that all the world has seen the images of the soccer game between Torino and Milan, and everyone remember what happened some years ago when the ultras of Lazio showed an enormous banner during the derby with Roma "team of ******s, stand of jews"), but it doesn't mean that there are so many "innocents" around the Naismith ball...

The first group here examinated is the _*"Fossa dei Leoni"*, "The Lions' Den"_, supporters of Skipper Fortitudo Bologna. 
Probably the most known organized group in Italy, they declare themselves "apolitical" but unofficially they are leftist. "In a way". 
They hate, of course, supporters of Virtus Bologna and the black-and-white team. If you ask to someone of the members of the F.d.L. which has been the greatest sport satisfaction of his life, he will answer "the lost of Virtus Bologna in Munich against Zalgiris". 
About Munich I remember their behaviour for the streets of the German town, making sort of patrols to hunt Virtus' supporters: hooligans? No, for exampe families there simply to enjoy the Final Four... When they meet the German police, that had a very good presence in the Arena, member of the F.d.L. started crying accusing them (the police) to have non-democratic behaviours, calling these Order Forces... "Gestapo". 
Gestapo because they were simply allowing the public, the culturally advanced public, to enjoy the basketball show. 
Derbies with Virtus Bologna were always the occasion to show nice choreographies, so the journalists could write the day after, "fantastic atmosphere on the stands": but I'd like to know which kind lived a child some years ago during a derby down the Two Towers: F.d.L. filled with urine some bottles, and threw them against the Virtus' fans. A child, struck by one of these special "molotov", went to hospital in a condition of shock. 
The same during the season 2001-02: this time during the derby F.d.L. threw against the supporters of Virtus... worms (it doesn't mean that someone of them jumped in the stands of Virtus, not at all). 
They have been protagonist last year of a great explosion of idiocy, some minutes before the end of game-3 of the Italian League final, vs Benetton Treviso. The "Greens" were leading (in Bologna), and this was the match-ball. A victory, and Benetton would have won the championship. About two minutes before the end, when Treviso was leading with a good margin (it was practically garbage time), F.d.L. invaded the court not to allow teams to finish the game, and most of all not to allow Benetton's party to celebrate on court their trophy (and this worths for Benetton's supporters too): "in Bologna no-one celebrates". 
Good things about them? No. Some "curiosities": they have a twinship with Tau's group of "Indar Baskonia" (you can see some kisses with tongue between them in the forums of F.d.L. and Indar) and a friendship with Zalgiris' and Olympiakos' fans. Sincerely, I don't think that anyone at the Piraeus know that...

(*) The missing word in the banner of Lazio's "supporters" is "blacks", and it starts with "nig...."


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WonderPelekanos</b>!
> A thread about the organized fans all around the World.
> Personally, normally I can't stand them. The percentage of groups that go to the sport arenas with the purpose to destroy the real show, to have fights with other supporters is too high.
> Italian basketball knows this phenomen, without the same "continuity" of football (I guess that all the world has seen the images of the soccer game between Torino and Milan, and everyone remember what happened some years ago when the ultras of Lazio showed an enormous banner during the derby with Roma "team of ******s, stand of jews"), but it doesn't mean that there are so many "innocents" around the Naismith ball...
> ...


That's a very interesting post you've sent WP! 

To tell the truth, I don't really like F. Bologna. I don't know why. It must have to do with their jerseys or something..... 

It's true that organized fans can cause real problems. They are extremist most of the times and they are a far cry from being called "sports' fans". They can be only considered as fanatic team-followers. Most of them don't even watch the game, rather they watch what the opponent's fans are doing and they are looking for any reason to attack them verbally or worse...physically. Also organised fans hold extremist ideologies which either have to do with politics, racism, or some kind of "social ideology". See for example what AEK (soccer) organized fans ("Original") are doing about the teams' coach. They consider him a traitor (because he left them some years ago to join the much-hated OSFP) and deny to go to the matches until he leaves the club. Even when the team wins they shout against him and demand him to leave the club. They have only caused harm to the club. They see themselves as the proud and real AEKtzides but they fail to see the trouble they cause. I don't know what your opinion is on this *zoom* but I think you agree that the Original has caused only harm so far in respect to this issue.


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

Just get rid of those fools. That's organized crime and I wish the teams didn't allow this to happen. 
European sports will always suffer unless they get rid of these criminals.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

I've much to say about this interesant thema, but now it's too late (yawn  )

This evening I will write something  

gretz


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

We have the same problem here in Brazil too. The organized fans raised in soccer, and migrated to basketball. Very sad. We already had some deaths here (because of soccer not basketball). Now there is a law that don't allow the organized fans to enter the stadiums, but unfortunally it's hard to know who is who. :yes:


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## WonderPelekanos (Dec 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JGKoblenz</b>!
> We have the same problem here in Brazil too. The organized fans raised in soccer, and migrated to basketball. Very sad. We already had some deaths here (because of soccer not basketball). Now there is a law that don't allow the organized fans to enter the stadiums, but unfortunally it's hard to know who is who. :yes:


Can you post here the text of this law, adding some details about the situation in Brazil? 
thanks


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Sorry guys, I'm very busy in these days ... however tomorrow I will write somethings about the italian reality of the "world" ultras.

Grettings


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WonderPelekanos</b>!
> Can you post here the text of this law, adding some details about the situation in Brazil?
> thanks


I tryed to find the text but it isn't anywhere on the net. I know that they closed their headquarters, but they changed into "clubs" so they can still operate. Another thing is that you can't wear anything related to organized fans, but that didn't work too, because they are still in the stadiums. The thing that worked best was a "peace movement", when players, coaches and the media asked for peace. The problem is still here, but in low degree. :yes: 



> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!
> Sorry guys, I'm very busy in these days ... however tomorrow I will write somethings about the italian reality of the "world" ultras.
> 
> Grettings


No need to apologize.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

In Italy the basketball's ultras are a relatively problem.

The principles of an ultras group are good: all togheter to support the team with chorus, pretty banner etc.
Naturally the ultras tease the other groups too, but it's a sound rivalship   

The problem: in these groups there are some people that go in the arena not to see a basketball game but only to fight with the other groups (some for political grounds - left ultras vs fascist ultras , other times for rivalship between close city ) .

However there were more problem 15-20 years ago in the arenas; now the problems are usually outdoor or in the railstations, like yesterday between the Pesaro's supporters and the Roseto's supporters.

The ultras groups in the basketball are a nice thing, unfortunately sometimes few people create trubles ...




























Grettings


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!


Ah, those two photos reminded me of the Korac Cup final (1994 I think it was). Stefanel Trieste-PAOK 91-100. Ah, good old basketball times for my beloved team. All gone now.....

The third photo is from the Skipper Arena right? The name of the photo though was containing the word "Pesaro". It must be some kind of mistake, right?


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> The third photo is from the Skipper Arena right? The name of the photo though was containing the word "Pesaro". It must be some kind of mistake, right?


Yes, it's the Dozza arena (5,700), the second one of Bologna ( the biggest is the Virtus's arena with 9,000 seats). 

The word "Pesaro" says simply that the game of the photo was Skipper Bologna VS Scavolini Pesaro  

Gretz


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, it's the Dozza arena (5,700), the second one of Bologna ( the biggest is the Virtus's arena with 9,000 seats).
> ...


Ah, all right, that's what I thought. I figured that it was Skipper's arena because of the ads at the right of the basket (HoKKaido) that are one of Skipper's sponsors.........and because of the colour of the fans clothes. 

What team do you support ItalianBBlover?


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> What team do you support ItalianBBlover?


My first "love" is the team of my town that plays in Italy's 3th division ( "B1" ) , while in A1 I support Milan and Pesaro.

But my favourite player, Shaun Stonerook, plays for Cantù; every basket of Shaun is a show ! look the .gif of my signature   

Gretz


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>italianBBlover</b>!
> 
> 
> My first "love" is the team of my town that plays in Italy's 3th division ( "B1" ) , while in A1 I support Milan and Pesaro.
> ...


I've checked that link before but I didn't realize it was him! I haven't seen him play, but all I can say about him is.......great hair style!!


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> great hair style!!


*lol* in fact Shaun's hair makes his baskets still more spectaculars :yes: 

















Great dunker but very good 3-shoter too !


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