# Tony Snell



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

As a discouraged Bulls fan I need something to pay attention to... I've decided that something will be Tony Snell.

I'm going to start the Tony Snell tracker with his time as a starter... after two games in the starting lineup:

Per game averages

*MIN*: 31.5
*PTS*: 11
*REB*: 1.5
*AST*: 1.5
*STL*: 1
*BLK*: 0
*FG%*: 50%
*3P%*: 40%
*FT%*: 100%
*TO*: 2

He seems a bit lost at times which is to be expected, and a bit timid... which may be a symptom of feeling lost... but in his moments of assertiveness I think Snell has looked alright. His shooting stroke looks like something you can work with. Physically he definitely resembles a rookie/he needs to add some muscle. 


Any thoughts on how Snell has looked? Better than a prime MJ/Sefolosha?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Loved how Snell looked against Detroit. He played assertively and confidently from the tip off. I think he's going to be a really nice player for the Bulls. He can legitimately excel at several important things at an NBA level, those being 3-pt shooting and defense at the SG position. Maybe more so though, is that he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. Never seems to play out of control and makes good decisions for a rookie. Definitely has the make up for an NBA shooting guard with pretty good ballhandling and passing skills, the quickness, and shooting ability. And at 6'7 with a ridiculous wingspan, that is a pretty special combination.

Granted I think he'll be only a role player in this league, he is still a pretty good talent and could one day be a legit starting caliber SG. IMO, if he had a different mental make up his talent would get him to an all-star type level b/c he really is the whole package. But as it is he's fairly passive and doesn't have an alpha dog, take over the game mentality.

My comparison (in terms of his max potential): Thabo Sefolosha with a much better 3-pt shot. Which is a very respectable player. If that turns out to be true, that's a great pick for a late 1st rounder in a crummy draft.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Hes ok, while his shot was going in, I still think we need someone who can handle the ball and get to the basket to draw a foul from time to time, Snell just looks like a perimeter jump shooter at this point. 

His biggest problem is that he doesn't play hard all the time, he played hard against the Pistons but did not for 95% of the other games, so its pretty hard to get a handle on how productive the guy can be.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

I think he can develop into a good role player for us. One of those 3 point/defense guys. We'll need them on the bench once we retool for next season.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Hes ok, while his shot was going in, I still think we need someone who can handle the ball and get to the basket to draw a foul from time to time, Snell just looks like a perimeter jump shooter at this point.
> 
> His biggest problem is that he doesn't play hard all the time, he played hard against the Pistons but did not for 95% of the other games, so its pretty hard to get a handle on how productive the guy can be.


Yeah that's similar to what I was getting at w/ his mental make up. 

When you analyze his physical abilities and skill set, there is no reason he shouldn't have been a big time college player and lottery pick. But he just wasn't...almost like he was content with mediocrity. IMO, the big thing he lacks is a desire to dig into the lane and absorb contact. If he had that type of drive his game impact would double instantly b/c the rest of his game is all there.

But his ceiling is there and even just as a strict perimeter wing, that should keep him in this league at least as a nice role player who can shoot, pass, and defend. Maybe Thibs will work some magic and turn him into something more. Thibs' comments about Snell really indicate he likes him so I think he'll be inclined to give him some burn and work with him, unlike Teague. With more strength training and good coaching, I could see him being a Rip Hamilton type of SG...physically and skill wise he is very similar to Rip, just that Rip had that killer drive and competitive instinct that I'm not sure Snell has. That is why I see him as more of a Thabo Sefolosha type player, Thabo has the same role player mentality even though he could be alot better than he is.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

For a while there, it seemed to me that Thibodeau would rather eat glass than play Snell. Somewhere somehow Snell gained Thibodeau's confidence. YEA!!!!

While Butler's out, Snell has a golden opportunity. So far so good. Keep it up, son.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Yeah that's similar to what I was getting at w/ his mental make up.
> 
> When you analyze his physical abilities and skill set, there is no reason he shouldn't have been a big time college player and lottery pick. But he just wasn't...almost like he was content with mediocrity. IMO, the big thing he lacks is a desire to dig into the lane and absorb contact. If he had that type of drive his game impact would double instantly b/c the rest of his game is all there.
> 
> But his ceiling is there and even just as a strict perimeter wing, that should keep him in this league at least as a nice role player who can shoot, pass, and defend. Maybe Thibs will work some magic and turn him into something more. Thibs' comments about Snell really indicate he likes him so I think he'll be inclined to give him some burn and work with him, unlike Teague. With more strength training and good coaching, I could see him being a Rip Hamilton type of SG...physically and skill wise he is very similar to Rip, just that Rip had that killer drive and competitive instinct that I'm not sure Snell has. That is why I see him as more of a Thabo Sefolosha type player, Thabo has the same role player mentality even though he could be alot better than he is.


Just to add to this, Snell is VERY thin and I do wonder if he will ever put in the work to bulk up, I doubt it since he just might be one of those guys who can't bulk up. This could limit how effective he can be defensively and while I think his shooting is his best strength, its not like hes a once in a generation shooter. 

I don't see much in him, but I hope I'm wrong.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

After 3 starts (following the loss to Cleveland where Snell put up a career high 18 on 7/12 shooting)

*MIN*: 32:35
*PTS*: 13.3
*REB*: 2.3
*AST*: 1.6
*STL*: 1
*BLK*: 0
*FG%*: 53.5%
*3P%*: 46.6%
*FT%*: 50%
*TO*: 2

steady progress.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

I think the Bulls should just focus on developing Butler, Snell, and Gibson to see who will be on this time long term. Trade the rest to get cap space and assets, and get a good pick next year. We are in a perfect position to rebuild.

Lets pull a San Antonio.

Next year

Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson, Mirotic, a good pick (or two - charlotte's)), and a decent/All-star FA signing. Then there are Snell, Hinrich, etc.

We are back in the game.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Just to add to this, Snell is VERY thin and I do wonder if he will ever put in the work to bulk up, I doubt it since he just might be one of those guys who can't bulk up. This could limit how effective he can be defensively and while I think his shooting is his best strength, its not like hes a once in a generation shooter.
> 
> I don't see much in him, but I hope I'm wrong.


He'll always be thin, but keep in mind just turned 22 yrs and has never been on a pro-level training regime. Remember how skinny Deng and Noah used to be. Give it 2 years and you might be surprised. Look at guys like Rip or Garnett who also remained skinny but developed alot of wiry strength without gaining much weight. Here's hoping...

While Snell isn't a once in a generation shooter like say Korver, he is clearly well above average at the NBA level, and with that height and length his shot is practically unblockable by opposing guards. The most impressive thing I've seen from him though is his decision making and ability to play under control for a rookie. That is the hardest thing to teach and is IMO the thing that wastes more talent in this league than anything else (case in point = Marquis Teague). Snell is looking like a very solid pick up for #20 in a crummy draft, all I could've asked for after Teague is looking like a lost cause.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

> *Thibodeau on Snell:*
> 
> “The best thing about him is how serious he is. Even when he wasn’t playing, his getting ready to play told me how serious he was. The questions he asked. On game days at home, he just stays in the arena. He’s there all the time. Those type of guys, when they get opportunities, they’re ready and usually take advantage. He has done a great job. He has to continue to work, which I know he will because of the type of person he is. The thing I like is he’s playing all areas of the game. He’s playing defense. He’s passing the ball. He’s making shots. And he’s never satisfied. You want a new guy to have the right attitude and approach. And he’s had that from Day One.”


Source

This was just music to my ears.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

transplant said:


> Source
> 
> This was just music to my ears.


Thanks for posting that Transplant... pretty effusive praise from Thibodeau... I guess that explains his willingness to play Snell extended minutes lately (not that he has a ton of other options) despite his inexperience. I'm still trying to figure out what Snell's ceiling is, but I'm optimistic at this point that he'll at least carve out a solid NBA career as a defender/spot up shooter, which is nice given where he was drafted. As bizkit mentioned, I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that he'll be an answer to our dearth of ball handlers that can create for themselves and others consistently, but I don't know if that was ever really the expectation.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

This guy was just money against Cleveland. I mean he showed the whole package, everything we've wanted from our Bulls starting SG for the past 10-12 years. Shooting, passing, creating, driving, defending...hard not to be excited. Thibodeau might be exactly the coach Snell needed to fulfill his potential.

My only real critique is that Snell hasn't learned how to work around NBA screens yet, as there were a number of times he got exploited by getting knocked off his defensive positioning. Definitely has the 1-v-1 defensive ability and focus, though.


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## Firefight (Jul 2, 2010)

People tend to love Gar/Pax or hate Gar/Pax... Regardless, one thing they have shown to me is that they are finding talent later in the draft. No draft is perfect, and the Bulls have had some bad picks since 2003, but finding talent at the back end of the draft is tough to do...and even harder to do multiple times.

When the Bulls did make mistakes, they've actually been able to do damage control pretty well by turning those mistakes (players) into some valuable picks via trade...

Tony Snell has played a handful of games, and cannot be judged yet...but at least he doesn't look like a bust.

Hopefully, with the way this season is going, and the Charlotte pick getting closer to being used, Gar/Pax can again make the right selection and move this franchise forward...


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Firefight said:


> When the Bulls did make mistakes, they've actually been able to do damage control pretty well by turning those mistakes (players) into some valuable picks via trade...


Damn good point.

Eddy Curry got them Noah.

Thabo Sefolosha got them Gibson.

Tyrus Thomas got them the mystery box also known as "The Charlotte Pick."

James Johnson got them Mirotic.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I forgot to update the Snell-as-a-starter tracker after the Pelicans game:

*MIN*: 30:00:45
*PTS*: 11.5
*REB*: 2
*AST*: 1.75
*STL*: .75
*BLK*: 0
*FG%*: 53.1%
*3P%*: 47.3%
*FT%*: 50%
*TO*: 1.5

I was disappointed that his minutes actually went down in the triple over time game... I'd also like it if he could get to the line so that I can quit typing "50%" under FT%... the rest of his percentages are great. Obviously at this point he isn't offering much in assists and rebounds.

Play Tony Snell, says I!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

transplant said:


> Damn good point.
> 
> Eddy Curry got them Noah.
> 
> ...



A good point indeed. The Bulls' return on their draft misfires has been just insanely good.

So, Teague is going to get us Jabari?


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

snell needs to shot more. sometimes it looks like he's afraid to jack up shots and only takes open ones.

the arc on his jumpshot is ridiculous, just like boozer. but it looks like he needs to work on his release, which could be quicker.

his wingspan does look insane, he will become a great ballhawk.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

the Snell-as-starter-tracker after 5:

*MIN:* 29:40:36
*PTS:* 10.8
*REB:* 2.2
*AST:* 1.8
*STL:* .6
*BLK:* 0
*FG%:* 51.2%
*3P%:* 47.8%
*FT%:* 50%
*TO:* 1.6


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Snell's TS% is .648% in his 5 starts... nice.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Taking off from where he did for an in-game contested dunk is no joke...


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

a little more of Snell against Orlando:


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

He definitely looks like the halfway point between Kawhi Leonard and Darius Miles.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

This is a benefit of the Deng trade. Tony is will continue to get more time on the floor now and more opportunities to develop.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)




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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

You know what he is?

A guy who would fit in _perfectly_ with Rose and Carmelo next season


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Even on a per-36 minute basis, Snell has been pretty meh. He's shown flashes of "Hey! That was really good!" which is about all you should expect from a #20 pick. 

Though I think Thibodeau has done a good job with Snell, he's been thrown into the fire a little more than is ideal for a player of his background.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

If nothing else, Snell is clearly a worthy player to have in your 8-10 man rotation, at worst a backup 2/3 in this league. He has already proven that. In a better case scenario, he has the talent and skills to grow into a starting role player at SG.

It's too bad he doesn't have more of a "motor" behind him. That's the only thing holding him back from being a really terrific player, IMO. The length, quickness, handles, passing, and shooting ability is all there. The drive/motor is something you can't teach, though, and he just doesn't have that. No reason a guy with his talent shouldn't have been the unquestioned star of his college team and a consensus lottery pick in this draft. 

Still a nice pick...picking up a rotation player at #20 in a crappy draft is still a good thing, especially one that has some upside and room for growth.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> If nothing else, Snell is clearly a worthy player to have in your 8-10 man rotation, at worst a backup 2/3 in this league. He has already proven that. In a better case scenario, he has the talent and skills to grow into a starting role player at SG.
> 
> It's too bad he doesn't have more of a "motor" behind him. That's the only thing holding him back from being a really terrific player, IMO. The length, quickness, handles, passing, and shooting ability is all there. The drive/motor is something you can't teach, though, and he just doesn't have that. No reason a guy with his talent shouldn't have been the unquestioned star of his college team and a consensus lottery pick in this draft.
> 
> Still a nice pick...picking up a rotation player at #20 in a crappy draft is still a good thing, especially one that has some upside and room for growth.


I think hes a finished product, much like Taj Gibson was. What you see is what you get, with minimal at best improvement over the years.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> I think hes a finished product, much like Taj Gibson was. What you see is what you get, with minimal at best improvement over the years.


You are probably right...though I will take a small chance of improvement over no chance. 

FWIW, Snell is a more well-rounded player than Gibson (better 2-way potential), but with less of a "niche" at this point, whereas Gibson had the stellar D from day 1.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I think hes a finished product, much like Taj Gibson was. What you see is what you get, with minimal at best improvement over the years.



Calling any rookie a "finished product" is a little silly.

That said, I largely agree with yodurk about his potential.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Calling any rookie a "finished product" is a little silly.
> 
> That said, I largely agree with yodurk about his potential.


I just don't see much of a ceiling on Snell, similar to what I have seen of Taj when he was drafted. My biggest concern with Snell is his motor and this is something I brought up back during the summer league, he has not shown much improvement or desire in that area. 

Maybe its just not in him, but if he doesn't have a sense of urgency in the off-season to improve, well this is what you are going to get. I agree with yodurk about his opinion on motor, you either have it or you don't. Its not something you can teach and without that motor, Snell is a finished product.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I just don't see much of a ceiling on Snell, similar to what I have seen of Taj when he was drafted. My biggest concern with Snell is his motor and this is something I brought up back during the summer league, he has not shown much improvement or desire in that area.


I'm with you on concerns re: motor. It can be an issue.

If you want to say he's comparable to Taj, fine, but Taj was not a "finished product" in his rookie season. He has improved as a player. Yes, he was closer to his ceiling due to finishing college. Snell might be the same. I'm just not going to agree he can't improve. I think we both agree though that we're not projecting him to make giant leaps.



> Maybe its just not in him, but if he doesn't have a sense of urgency in the off-season to improve, well this is what you are going to get. I agree with yodurk about his opinion on motor, you either have it or you don't. Its not something you can teach and without that motor, Snell is a finished product.



By all reports, Snell is a massive gym rat, so I think he has the desire. So, no, he's not a finished product, but yes, his limited motor could mean that he isn't going to improve by many orders of magnitude.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

to me snell has a nice skillset.

he's got the tools to be a great defender, is a good shooter and can be the kind of guy who thibs lets run a set or 2 to give a defense a different look.

that being said his ceiling is pretty much fringe starter /top reserve, and he should be that by the end of next season...he just needs to learn the league a bit and he'll be fine.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I see both points.

Snell is not going to make the colossal leap in production that his talent and skill set might suggest. 

However he IS only a rookie and it shows, alot. He flashes great defensive potential at the 2-guard but still gets caught out of position a good amount. That will almost certainly improve especially under Thibs. Also his shooting efficiency leaves alot to be desired right now...I guarantee that is not a reflection of his shooting skill, IMO it's his lack of comfort in a complex NBA system that is still new to him. There is a good chance his current shooting percentages will be the lowest of his NBA career just like many rookies. A few years from now I see him being a rock solid role player where these flaws are patched up and he is a nice all around player. Again, I could see so much more from him but for where he was picked that is solid value and teams always need guys like that in your rotation.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

Snell only played about 6 minutes in the Nets game, missing the only shot he took.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Fergus said:


> Snell only played about 6 minutes in the Nets game, missing the only shot he took.


It seems clear that Thibs isn't happy with Snell's defense right now, and is not giving him consistent minutes as a result.

And it's not lack of ability, it's lack of understanding with Thibs' complex defensive system.

This is IMO hurting Snell's ability to get into an offensive rhythm. Not just the inconsistent minutes, but also the mental aspects and confidence (or lack there of) instilled by Thibs.

I see people comparing Snell to Tim Hardaway Jr. and saying, hey, Hardaway is playing so much better. That may be true, but Hardaway is basically being allowed to free style his way out there...shoot at will, run the break, etc, and more importantly not being benched for defensive mistakes.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Snell could end up being a legit NBA player or he could be a washout. It's easy to change your opinion of him on a game-to-game basis...depends on if he plays and how many 3s he hits.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

Another subpar night for Tony.

Against the Raptors, Tony only played 6 minutes, missing the only shot he took. Also, he picked up two personal fouls and had a turnover.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

*Re: Tony Snell vs the Nuggets*

Tony finally had a good offensive game. 

He logged some good minutes against the Nuggets after Jimmy Butler left the game with an injury.

Tony took advantage of some Nuggets defensive lapses to make some good shots. He made a couple of nice 3's and ended the night with 20 points.

Hopefully this builds up his confidence a bit, especially after some of his recent poor performances. He will need the extra confidence if Butler is out for a while, as the next game is against the Heat.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

As fans, we overrate our players. I think Snell is a decent bench player - right now. I don't think he would start for anyone or even log heavy minutes on many teams. I am not expecting him to be a start or a starter. I hope he can be a good and productive 15-20 min player for the SG/SF positions.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Already posted in the summer league thread, but I thought I'd give Tony Snell some love in this thread for his great performance in a meaningless game (still, showing signs of improvement, which is a good thing) -


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## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

He said on an interview with BullsTV that he put on some muscle after the season (and it showed). Hell, unless they are able to find a starting caliber wing for cheap in FA, it'll probably be between him and Dunleavy for the other spot next to Jimmy. I wouldn't count him out of it. He'll at least be a bigger part of the rotation this year (so long as Thibs isn't playing Jimmy 40+ minutes a night).


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

KFitz14 said:


> He said on an interview with BullsTV that he put on some muscle after the season (and it showed). Hell, unless they are able to find a starting caliber wing for cheap in FA, it'll probably be between him and Dunleavy for the other spot next to Jimmy. I wouldn't count him out of it. He'll at least be a bigger part of the rotation this year (so long as Thibs isn't playing Jimmy 40+ minutes a night).


Yes, the Bulls aren't dishing out big money to any of their wings so IMO there will be a spot up for grabs next to Jimmy Butler. Snell, Dunleavey, and McDermott will have all a fair shot at it in training camp. 

Hopefully though we find a trade to upgrade on the wing. We desperately need some volume scoring and/or shot creation abilities at either SG or SF.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Already posted in the summer league thread, but I thought I'd give Tony Snell some love in this thread for his great performance in a meaningless game (still, showing signs of improvement, which is a good thing) -
> 
> Tony Snell Full SL Highlights 2014.07.12 vs Clippers - 27 Pts, SICK! - YouTube


Thanks for the video Dornado. It is nice to see Tony showing some offensive skills. Now I want to see him do it in a game where some NBA caliber defense is being played!


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