# OFFICIAL THREAD: Bulls/Cavs



## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

Since no one else started it, I will by golly! I think I am 2-1 starting threads....in any case, Bulls should win this one....of course they really should have beaten the whizzards too, but, thats another story. 

Bulls 102, cavs 91


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

Ricky Davis torches us for 40, the Cavs beat us by 10, 103-93.

---

Does anyone remember back on Sportstalk when I wanted Ricky Davis really badly? It was after him averaging 35ppg in the summer leagues and everyone said "Summer Leagues mean jack." -- I told you he was a scorer.

Man, I wish we would have went after him.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm glad you started it. I've started one, and it was the Wizards game. My record is _horrible_ ;-)


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

While I'm interested in the Bulls/Cavs, I might end up watching the other basketball team from Ohio that everyone wants to see...you know the high school one.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Cavs are horrible. The Bulls take out their huge loss to the Wizards on the helpless Cavaliers. DaJuan is shutout.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> Cavs are horrible. The Bulls take out their huge loss to the Wizards on the helpless Cavaliers. DaJuan is shutout.


You are such an optimist!

To me, the Bulls are like Jekyll-Hyde because of their emotional immaturity. Who knows who will show up? Cartwright doesn't seem to know. I'm nervous about the after effects of getting booed in their own backyard, even if it was inadvertent. The Cavs certainly present an opportunity to turn that around, but if they don't come out with fire, they will get burned instead, and a defeat here at this time would be really devastating for the rest of the season. They would lose a sense of making progress, and therefore of hope. 

Well, my predictions of the Wizards game were off except for the one about MJ crying, but I'll try again. 

I think the key is defense. The CAVS don't play any. The Bulls can, if they are playing together. I'll assume that the Bulls do play defense and control the boards, then

Bulls 95
Cavs 82

If not,

Cavs 107
Bulls 102


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Hmmm a bulls home game against a team 2-14 on the road 

i'll go with the bulls on this one 97-91


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

If the Bulls lose this one, I'll be very, very dissapointed.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Buth then again,....*



> Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
> If the Bulls lose this one, I'll be very, very dissapointed.



* you have been there before, no?*

Bulls WIll win....


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

Bulls better win tonight, to lose to a team that is 2-14 on the road and having just played last night would be depressing to say the least. Prediction:

Bulls- 106
Cavs- 88


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Last game, Cleveland broke a 14-game road losing streak against Toronto.

Ricky Davis played 45 minutes, shot 11-26, and scored 29 points.
Ilgauskas shot 4-14
Miles 3-4, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 8 points
Wagner 3-9, 7 points
Boozer 2-3, 4 points

The team shot .392 from the firled and scored 81 points.

Vashon Lenard was injured (out two weeks) and only played 4 minutes for Toronto. Toronto shot .386 from the field and scored 80 points.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Chandler's going to prove he's better than Tyrone Hill ;-)

2 plays, 2 dunks.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Tyson is Tyson. 2 fouls, he sits. In comes Curry.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

JWill is hurt?

Sounds like an ankle. Walk it off, kid!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Rose is picking up the slack for JWill. 4-5 FG already. Bulls up 20-11.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

What a quarter!

Bulls held Cleveland to 12 points, on 5-20 FG.

Rose 4-7, 3 reb, 3 ast, 8 pts
Marshall 2-6, 3 reb, 1 ast, 7 points

Ricky Davis 0-5, 1 pt
Wagner 2-7, 4 pts


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

*D?*

Was it just good defense or did Cleveland just miss open shots?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

D.

It is very clear that the Bulls are not the worst team in the league.

Davis 1-7 now. Cleveland 7-26 overall.

Rose is 5-8, finally gets off to a good start.

Curry played decently, and this might be a good game to get him a bunch of minutes.

Fizer is ice cold


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

What a pitiful team the Bulls have out there now.

Chandler, Hassell, Fizer, Crawford, Hoiberg


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

Hard to pay any attention to this game when the Packers are getting handled by Vick and the Falcons. As a loyal Lions fan it gives me no greater joy, I'm sure it's enjoyable for you Bear fans out there too.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Bulls lead this Q 14-10, but that lineup really sucked. No offense.

BC makes the adjustment:
Marshall, Chandler, Rose, Hassell, Crawford

Chandler is really stepping it up. 12 points, 3 rebounds so far


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Hassell is having a great game, too.

2-2 FG, 6 reb, 2 stl, 1 blk


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Bulls gave up just 33 pts. 

Chandler looks good! Fizer struggling


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Bulls up 49-33 at the half.

Sloppy 2nd Q for the Bulls, but they still outscored Cleveland 25-21.

Bulls 8-22 FG: Rose 1-4, Chandler 2-4, Hassell 2-2, ERob 0-1, Crawford 1-3, Fizer 1-6

For the game:
Rose 5-11, 3 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 11 pts (10 in Q1)
Marshall 2-6, 5 reb, 2 ast, 9 pts
Chandler 4-6, 4 reb, 3 PF, 12 pts
Hassell 3-3, 6 reb, 2 stl, 1 blk, 7 pts
Curry 2-3, 3 reb, 6 pts
Crawford 1-5, 2 reb, 4 ast, 2 pts
.418 FG

CLE 27 reb, Bulls 25

Ricky Davis 2-11 FG, 3 reb, 3 ast, 5 pts
Wagner 3-9 FG, 3 reb, 10 pts
Ilgauskas 6-9 FG, 6 reb, 14 pts
.292 FG

MILES 0-1, 1 reb, 3 ast


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

weird day... hardly nobody around to post to this thread.


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## Tri_N (Aug 19, 2002)

It's because the Falcons are owning the Packers right now. Turn on to ABC to see the game.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

JWill's ankle looked relatively minor, but I doubt he comes back tonight.

A good chance to highlight Jamal for a possible Darius Miles trade


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Hassell is proving he does have an game on O.

5-5 FG, 12 points, 7 rebounds, and holding Davis to 2-12 FG


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

One game does not a season make.

Nice pass by Miles to the big Z


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Rose gets the ball on the baseline and and forces up a bad shot because no one comes to help him.

Blount from the top of the key? What the hell was that?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

What a game.

Blount and Hassell have all our points this Q except for one bucket by Marshall.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

One thing for sure.

Crawford is dribbling, dribbling, dribbling the ball. It isn't leaving his hands much.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Another thing for sure.

I'm glad we have Crawford and I am unimpressed by Miles.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Red Kerr is gonna burst a vein yelling at Jamal.

Smush parker just got his nose smushed into the court.

But I'm happy we're winning.

We've still got lots of problems to solve before we're any good, but we've come a long way for the last several years.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

We've allowed just 51 points in 3 quarters.

Rose is ice cold since Q1, but he's actually hustling more than usual.

I'm starting to wonder what's up with Marshall. His intensity just isn't there lately. 3-10 FG. No boards in Q3.

Bulls with just 6 baskets in Q3: Hassell 2, Blount 2, Marshall 1, Crawford 1.

We aren't going to win many games if we have quarters like that.

The last play of the quarter was a glimpse of how good the Bulls are on the fast break. It was sweet, even though ERob missed the dunk at the end.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Bulls are playing UGLY.

Cleveland 12-5 this quarter.

Bulls bring in the starters. Only up 8.


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## Tri_N (Aug 19, 2002)

This is why Jay is starting over JC. Jay knows how to control and lead a team unlike JC. Great, let's all play one on one and playground street ball since we're leading. Congratulation, BC, you managed this team perfectly to ChokeVille.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Bulls up by 2, 73-71.

3-11 FG this Q

Crawford has played 40 minutes. He's mishandling the ball just about every time up now.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Jalen Rose is playing awesome the last couple minutes.

Two key assists to Chandler, and then a drive and draws the foul.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Cleveland comes back to take the lead. Ridiculous.

Miles is 4 of 4 in the second half.

Jamal needs to go to Cleveland, he's already helping them win games. 7 points... 7 TOs. Yuck.

Chandler and Fizer have come in pissed off in the forth. At least they care.


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

Wow 30 points in 2 quarters! Talk about fugly against maybe the worst defensive team in the league.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm sorry, but Rose is truly a clutch player.

If the Bulls do trade Crawford, the best thing would be that Rose gets to play 18 minutes of PG a game.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Crawford out, Freddie in.

Chandler's starting to get it.

Rose hits a clutch shot that probably ices it for us.


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> I'm sorry, but Rose is truly a clutch player.


I'll have to agree with that, for all his failings he has seldom failed in the clutch this season. Some of the shots he makes down the stretch look impossible but somehow he gets it done.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> I'm sorry, but Rose is truly a clutch player.
> 
> If the Bulls do trade Crawford, the best thing would be that Rose gets to play 18 minutes of PG a game.


I agree. A lineup of Rose, Hassell, and Miles would be prettying good defensively, and fine offensively. Not as good as Rose, Miles, and Eddie Jones though 

Rose appears to have sealed the game for us.

---

Darius Miles: in 28 minuts, 4-6 for 8 points, 5 boards, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 3 TOs.

Jamal Crawford: in 40 minutes, 2-8 for 8\5 points, 4 boards, 7 assists, 7 TOs.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Killuminati</b>!
> 
> 
> I'll have to agree with that, for all his failings he has seldom failed in the clutch this season. Some of the shots he makes down the stretch look impossible but somehow he gets it done.


When he moved to PG, he got 3 or 4 assists in the last couple minutes. He finished with 8 assists, 5 rebounds, and 2 steals. That's what you do when your shot isn't falling. He not only hit the shot that iced the game, he hit all his free throws.

Crawford clearly couldn't handle the full court pressure the Cavs put on. Rose got open, got the ball, handled it well, and made them pay.

Props to Hassel, 14 points 9 boards, and Ricky Williams hit just 4 of 18 shots (Rose guarded him a lot, too, until he got foul #5).

In Crawford's defense he didn't get a breather until he got yanked. 40 minutes.

Props to Chandler, too. And Fizer is impressive, even if he has an off game.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

If Eddie Jones is available for a trade, Krause is a total idiot for not making it (unless it's for Rose).


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

We with stood a run and chandler hit two very important shots. Rose hit a clutch jumper after missing 10 straight shots.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Bulls 12th win last year? Feb 12.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

What on earth happened out there? I turned the game off earlier and we were up by about 20. Turned it on late in the 4th and we were down !  How did we let things get so out of control? I was too busy watching the PAckers get killed! :rbanana:


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

Is JWill okay? Hope it isn't anything serious...


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*A win's a win, eh?*

Not very impressive but we will take it...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> What on earth happened out there? I turned the game off earlier and we were up by about 20. Turned it on late in the 4th and we were down !  How did we let things get so out of control? I was too busy watching the PAckers get killed! :rbanana:


Bulls were in foul trouble.

Rose 5, Chandler 5, Crawford 5.

Bulls played guys like ERob way too many minutes, but with the lead they had, BC figured it a good time to get him some minutes.

Crawford did not create well for the offense, as he got more tired. He dribbled the ball way too much, and ended up starting the offense from way outside the 3pt line with little time on the clock. Though he did have 7 assists. He just needed a breather and BC didn't give it to him because JWill was sitting out.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

A win is a win. The only thing bad I can say is that I can't imagine us getting Miles for Crawford.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

We really missed williams penatration!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

9 more wins and we tie last season for wins.


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## LoaKhoet (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> A win is a win. The only thing bad I can say is that I can't imagine us getting Miles for Crawford.


Why??


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...gamer,1,7034489.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Jalen Rose shook off a stomach virus and fever to lead the Bulls with 19 points, including a clutch baseline jumper with 42.1 seconds left. 

Despite his illness, Rose played 44 minutes and also contributed eight assists.

Bad news came early when Jay Williams sprained his left ankle 4:11 after tipoff and didn't return. X-rays proved negative, but Williams watched the second half in street clothes and is day-to-day.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> 
> 
> Why??


Because generally speaking, PG's who generate a 7 turnovers for 7 assists aren't in high demand.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I have ZERO interest in Miles at this point. I'd much rather have Crawford, just for games like tonight, when JWill can't play for some reason (even foul trouble).

If we traded for Miles, I wouldn't give up anything more than ERob for him. Or maybe ERob and a pick.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*i think Craw handled the duties well*

man but 40 straight minutes that is a lot to ask anyone. I applaud him on a good effort, he has never played that many minutes before. Now when JWill is back put him and craw in together billy.


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## Tri_N (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> I have ZERO interest in Miles at this point. I'd much rather have Crawford, just for games like tonight, when JWill can't play for some reason (even foul trouble).
> 
> If we traded for Miles, I wouldn't give up anything more than ERob for him. Or maybe ERob and a pick.


Please stop kidding yourselves. I was coming with an open mind toward this game but JC hasn't proven jack crap. I rather have Miles than JC in any day of the week. The Bulls offense was nonexisted and sloppy when JC handled the ball. When Jay was in, the offense was much smoother. Give me Miles and I'll even give the Cavs back 2 mil to sweeten the deal. JC and Erob for Miles? Sign me up, baby.


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## Tri_N (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: i think Craw handled the duties well*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> man but 40 straight minutes that is a lot to ask anyone. I applaud him on a good effort, he has never played that many minutes before. Now when JWill is back put him and craw in together billy.


Did he want minutes so he can play? He ask for it and he hasn't shown jack. I hope that BC will rest Jay for the next couple of games so we could see what JC is made out of. Coming out of this game, I wasn't that impressed at all.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Just a reminder.

JWill's last game:

WAS 31 minutes, 1-9 FG, 1-4 FT, 2 AST, 0 STL
POR 29 minutes, 3-9 FG, 2 REB, 9 AST, 4 STL, 4 TO

JWill hasn't had a 7 TO game, but he's had two 6 TO games.

How'd Crawford do on D?

Dajuan Wagner 4-12 FG


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> I have ZERO interest in Miles at this point. I'd much rather have Crawford, just for games like tonight, when JWill can't play for some reason (even foul trouble).
> 
> If we traded for Miles, I wouldn't give up anything more than ERob for him. Or maybe ERob and a pick.


But as you pointed out, Rose was effective running the show. Probably more so than Crawford. If we had Miles, we could play a lineup of Rose, Miles, and Hassell, ERob, or Hoiberg. We put Rose on the opponent's weaker wing defender and then sick Miles and Trent on the opponents' better defender and PG. Either is an OK defender on most guys their own size, but against a smaller PG, they should have a very good advantage.

Why Miles for Crawford? Because with Crawford, we couldn't do that.

Kudos to Trent for a great game. Even though I think we need someone better, one has to remember that Trent's a kid too. I think he can eventually be a consistently good sixth man type, and tonight he had a damn good game on both sides of the ball.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

to me this proves it the bulls are just a better team than the cavs i wasn't impressed with Jc's overall play but he came in and the bulls went on something close to a 29-13 run so its hard to say he played that badly because for about 3 quarters the game was an easy one 

and though most people like to downplay john Lucas' coaching ability he almost stole a game they should have gotten blown out in by pressuring craw up and down the court and tiring Jc out knowing full well with williams hurt ther was no other true point guard on the roster

and props to the whole bulls defense they basically shut cleve. down


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Mike,

FWIW, I've felt, all season, that Rose should be the starting PG and JWill should be coming off the bench.

In the preseason threads, I suggested a lineup of:
PG Rose
SG Hassell
C Chandler
PF Marshall
SF ERob

That's the best defenders we have, and a mostly veteran lineup. At this point, replace ERob with Fizer, and it's still a nice lineup for this team.

It's not that I don't like JWill - I'd still give him his 30+ minutes a night. It's just a lot of pressure to put on the kid to have to play with a lot of other kids at the same time. And especially with the circus trip in the cards, we were certain to put JWill in a losing situation as the starting PG right away.

But that is the past. I wasn't impressed with Miles at all tonight. Before we trade Craw for Miles, I'd rather see him get starts at the 2 with JWill. We don't need another project like Miles, IMO. It's trading depth where we need it, with at least some experience with the system, coaches, and other players. I don't like the idea of it.

I do not see where getting Miles solves a single problem this team has. 

If we got Eddie Jones, at least we'd have someone to run with Rose, someone to replace Hassell's D and provide O, etc. If we had to trade Craw+ERob (plus whatever) to get him, it'd be worth it, and we have the luxury at that point to play Rose some at PG.

I don't fault BC for starting JWill and giving him all the minutes he's getting. JWill is clearly the real deal, and he's going to be a great player for the Bulls for years. But maybe watching Rose distribute would help him when he does get in the game.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBullz,

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9829&highlight=lineup

Great minds must think alike 

I had Curry starting over Chandler, but otherwise, exactly the same lineup to start the season


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*DaBullz good point*

It was nice not seeing the rest of the team play good d only to let JWill let his man come off a screen and drive or pop a wide open jumper. I think the balance between JWill and Jcraw could prove to be very baluable in the future. Tri_N nobody plays 40 staright minutes in the NBA I know he wanted minutes but damn that was tough tonight. He started out well but the press got to him, he grew tired, and our offense suffered as a whole. he did a hell of a job on Wagner though. Kept him in front of him practically the whole game.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Actually, I had Curry in there too.

*5*

(that's high 5 ;-)

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8009&highlight=DaBullz+lineup


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BamaBull</b>!
> Since no one else started it, I will by golly! I think I am 2-1 starting threads....in any case, Bulls should win this one....of course they really should have beaten the whizzards too, but, thats another story.
> 
> Bulls 102, cavs 91


Though you didn't get the score right, you got the right result.

I hope you start the next game thread ;-)


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Oh yeah 

Anyway, back to the subject at hand.

What I see is that Miles brings the following:

* If we move Crawford to get him, it enables us to play Rose at the point (on offense) and put a defensive oriented lineup out there.

* Miles is a good defender, probably already better than Trent, and with the size to match up against players Trent can't.

* I think comparisons between Miles and ERob are flawed. While they are accurate in the sense that they're both athletic and have a limited shooting range, ERob is a mediocre defender and doesn't have much handle at all. Miles, on the other hand, is a good enough passer that the Cavs are willing to play him out of position at PG. In that sense, he'd fit in quite nicely in the triangle. We can always use another guy who can pass.

-----

On Eddie Jones, I agree that he's a better player. Hell, I'd prefer to go all out to try to get both of them. I think getting both, if we could pull it off somehow (unlikely) without giving up Rose would put us in the playoffs this year.


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## HJHJR (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Killuminati</b>!
> 
> 
> I'll have to agree with that, for all his failings he has seldom failed in the clutch this season. Some of the shots he makes down the stretch look impossible but somehow he gets it done.


I just got back from the game. I haven't seen this piece of information posted on this thread tonight so I'm assuming no announcement was made: Jalen was suffering from the flu this evening. That makes his down the stretch performance even more impressive. 

And I'll mention one more thing about Rose while I'm at it. I'm not sure how many of you are aware of it, but Jalen has a group called "Rose's Garden" I believe. This organization accomodates about 25 to 30 kids at each Bulls home game. I was down on the floor around 5:30 meeting with some people and there was Jalen, still in his regular clothes, standing at half court with these little guys and gals showing them a great time. I kept an eye on him as he spent nearly 30 minutes with these kids, laughing and kidding with them as though they were members of his own family. His interest in these little ones was genuine. He showed me a side of himself that I'd never seen before, and I'd have to say I was more impressed with the way he gave of himself to these children than I was with his 4th quarter play. Make no mistake about it. Rose is a class act, and we're all very lucky he's on our side now.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

So... if we trade Craw and don't get a guard type in return, then what happens when JWill twists an ankle again? Rose at PG for all 48 minutes?

Don't suggest Hoiberg at PG, please ;-)

I think Cleveland is only playing him because they gave up too much to get him. Think they'd like to have Andre back now? (I do).


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...gamer,1,7034489.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines
> 
> Jalen Rose shook off a stomach virus and fever to lead the Bulls with 19 points, including a clutch baseline jumper with 42.1 seconds left.
> ...


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## HJHJR (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> So... if we trade Craw and don't get a guard type in return, then what happens when JWill twists an ankle again? Rose at PG for all 48 minutes?
> 
> Don't suggest Hoiberg at PG, please ;-)
> ...


While Hoiberg certainly isn't your ideal backup PG, the fact is Crawford was pulled in favor of Hoiberg down the stretch. 

I imagine that if Crawford was moved, Jalen would see some time at the point. But we've got Brunson in reserve, and I've got to tell you that Mason looked awefully good going one on one with the likes of Hassell, Crawford and Marshall during the pregame shoot around. Mason's got an excellent shooting touch, he's quick and he's a very physical player on defense. The Bulls are going to want to get Mason some floor time eventually. Where will the minutes come from? Crawford's probably wondering the same thing, though I think in the back of his mind he's got a pretty good idea.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I was going to mention Mason Jr., but he hasn't played a game yet, players often look good in practice but not games, and he is injury prone.

Hoiberg didn't play PG when Craw got benched. It was clearly Rose at the point.

An interesting question is who is going to go on IR when Mason is ready?


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## HJHJR (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> I was going to mention Mason Jr., but he hasn't played a game yet, players often look good in practice but not games, and he is injury prone.
> 
> Hoiberg didn't play PG when Craw got benched. It was clearly Rose at the point.
> ...


All I said was that Crawford was pulled in favor of Hoiberg down the stretch.

As for who would be placed on IR in favor of Mason, Baxter seems like a logical candidate. Of course everything could change if there's a trade.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Right.

Now put Hoiberg in for Crawford, put Rose in street clothes, and tell me who plays point guard, now that Craw is traded somewhere else for a F?


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## HJHJR (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Right.
> 
> Now put Hoiberg in for Crawford, put Rose in street clothes, and tell me who plays point guard, now that Craw is traded somewhere else for a F?


Remember that guy we got in the first round this summer...err, I think his name was Jay Williams.

Seriously, what's your point? Are you suggesting that Jamal Crawford and his 17.7 minutes per game is too valuable to trade? If Krause gets an offer he likes I don't think he'll squash the deal because it might leave us a little short at the backup PG position. Besides, I thought the triangle was supposed to run just fine, with or without a true PG.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Re: OFFICIAL THREAD: Bulls/Cavs*



> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Though you didn't get the score right, you got the right result.
> ...


without getting into the banter of Jay vs Jamal, I truly believe HAD HE NOT gotten hurt, the score would have been up in the 100 for the Bulls. This offense just simply runs better with Jay. At least I think so.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*But then again....*



> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> DaBullz,
> 
> http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9829&highlight=lineup
> ...




....so do crappy ones! lol .............just kidding guys~


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> So... if we trade Craw and don't get a guard type in return, then what happens when JWill twists an ankle again? Rose at PG for all 48 minutes?
> 
> Don't suggest Hoiberg at PG, please ;-)
> ...


Read again. The point is clear.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: OFFICIAL THREAD: Bulls/Cavs*



> Originally posted by <b>BamaBull</b>!
> 
> 
> without getting into the banter of Jay vs Jamal, I truly believe HAD HE NOT gotten hurt, the score would have been up in the 100 for the Bulls. This offense just simply runs better with Jay. At least I think so.


Absolutely. Jay has 30+ games of 30+ minutes running the team. He practices with the first team. He _better_ run the offense better.

But the offense clearly runs its very best with Rose at PG.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> So... if we trade Craw and don't get a guard type in return, then what happens when JWill twists an ankle again? Rose at PG for all 48 minutes?
> 
> Don't suggest Hoiberg at PG, please ;-)


For a single game, if we don't have any PGs on the roster, then what you suggest is certainly no worse than Jamal at PG for 48 minutes.

In reality though, if JWill gets hurt but we have Miles, we have many options. Roger Mason is highly touted and nearly ready to go. Brunson was competent last year. Miles himself is playing PG for the Cavs. If JWill missed a couple games we would run Rose for all of his minutes at the point, and let Hassell, Miles, and Marshall pick up the slack at the wing positions.

PG - Rose 36, Mason or Brunson 12
SG - Trent 30, Hoiberg 18
SF - Miles 30, Marshall 18
PF - Marshall 14, Fizer 34
C - Chandler, Curry, Blount



> I think Cleveland is only playing him because they gave up too much to get him. Think they'd like to have Andre back now? (I do).


They might, but if you look at Miles, he's playing very effective basketball. He was effective tonight in most every phase of the game, and he's been effective all year, despite being hampered by injury and playing out of position. What did his 4-6 shooting, 5 board, 5 assist, a steal, and a block in 29 minutes performance do to suggest he shouldn't be playing?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Mike,

I think this is pointless, because Krause isn't going to trade for Miles. At least he hasn't yet.

In fact, of all the hundreds of trades (maybe I exaggerate) suggested in this forum, Krause hasn't done a single one ;-)

But, no. I don't want 8 pts, 5 reb, 5 ast from anyone new we get for this team, in trade for our 7-2-3 guy. I'd much rather see us consolidate some young guys for a 20-5-5 or 15-5-5 guy. That would be someone like Jones or Battier.

Miller, btw, is a 16-4-8 kinda guy this year. If a Craw-for-Miles trade were done, Cleveland would have effectively traded Miller for Crawford. Ouch. If the Clips would make that trade today, it'd rock for us. Doubtful.

If I were Krause, I would have signed Tim Hardaway a long time ago. All it'd cost is dollars for one season, and we'd have a pretty good outside shooter.

From what I've seen of Krause, he's made trades that I never would have even considered. Trading away Brand, for example. Or trading for Rose (not that I don't like it, I didn't expect it).

Given that, maybe there's some much bigger trade that Krause has in mind.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i don't know how shopping JC got brought up but he can't fetch miles (won't in any case). let the bulls develop a little...i hear nothing but impatience on this forum. by next season the bulls are positioned with an amazing backup line, in addition to a very strong starting unit. be happy to have JC, he didn't handle the pressure all that well tonight but still came through with a W and made some nice plays to go along with good D. good things come to those who wait.

that said, of course I would want miles...


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> i don't know how shopping JC got brought up but he can't fetch miles (won't in any case). let the bulls develop a little...i hear nothing but impatience on this forum. by next season the bulls are positioned with an amazing backup line, in addition to a very strong starting unit. be happy to have JC, he didn't handle the pressure all that well tonight but still came through with a W and made some nice plays to go along with good D. good things come to those who wait.
> 
> that said, of course I would want miles...


Good point! But there will always be trade talks. Especially when we get beat as bad as we did against washington the other night.


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