# REPORT: Pacers sign David West to 2-yr/$20M deal



## Wade2Bosh

*Source: Celtics close to deal with All-Star big man West*​


> A source briefed on discussions Friday evening said that the Boston Celtics are close to a deal with free agent power forward David West, who has been with the New Orleans Hornets since being drafted in 2003.
> 
> West, 31, was expected to be one of the top free agents in this year's class, but he is coming off of a torn ACL suffered late last season in a game against Utah. West has diligently rehabbed his injury in North Carolina last summer, but teams have been slow to make significant offers to him.
> 
> A two-time All-Star, West has averaged 16.4 points and 7.3 rebounds in his eight NBA seasons. If healthy, West would be a boon whether starting or coming off the bench for the Celtics, who acquired Brandon Bass earlier Friday from Orlando for forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis.





> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> As @Daldridgetnt reports, David West close w/ Celtics. Y! Sources say sides working on a sign-and-trade for a 3-year, $27-29M deal.


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## LamarButler

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

I really hope they're not trading Ray for him.


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## 29380

*David West to the Celtics*



> As @Daldridgetnt reports, David West close w/ Celtics. Y! Sources say sides working on a sign-and-trade for a 3-year, $27-29M deal.





> Celtics likely send Jermaine O'Neal and another player to New Orleans in sign-and-trade, sources said. Hornets would move players elsewhere.


http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA


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## Wade2Bosh

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> Celtics likely send Jermaine O'Neal and another player to New Orleans in sign-and-trade, sources said. Hornets would move players elsewhere.


Would that be enough to get the OK from Stern?


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## kbdullah

*Re: David West to the Celtics*

Did not see this coming. So I guess they don't see themselves bringing back Jeff Green?

And so much for NOH cutting salary and getting younger. Hope they move those players to someone who is willing to give them something for them.


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## HB

*Re: David West to the Celtics*

Wow


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## Bogg

*Re: David West to the Celtics*



kbdullah said:


> Did not see this coming. So I guess they don't see themselves bringing back Jeff Green?
> 
> And so much for NOH cutting salary and getting younger. Hope they move those players to someone who is willing to give them something for them.


Actually, Jeff Green signed the one-year qualifying offer earlier today.


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## 29380

*Re: David West to the Celtics*



> johnhollinger I'm baffled. David West deal would appear to kill the 3-way CP3 trade. Hornets can't take on any $ in West deal and still do CP trade.


twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger


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## Bogg

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



Wade2Bosh said:


> Would that be enough to get the OK from Stern?


I'm very excited for this round of jokes throughout media-land tomorrow


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## LamarButler

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

If its really Jermaine O'Neal for him... Then here comes Banner 18


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## Adam

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



LamarButler said:


> If its really Jermaine O'Neal for him... Then here comes Banner 18


:whofarted


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## HKF

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

So KG is going to play center?


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## MojoPin

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Hollinger


> I'm baffled. David West deal would appear to kill the 3-way CP3 trade. Hornets can't take on any $ in West deal and still do CP trade


if true, you-know-what is going to hit the fan.


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## mjm1

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

This is a pretty horrible trade for the hornets. I dont see how the League approves it after rejecting the CP3 trade.


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## Hibachi!

*re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

The league approves it if the Hornets take on expiring contracts. JO only has one year left.


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## c_dog

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

david west is a nice player.. but how many undersized pf's does a team need? brandon bass and david west? david west is a nice player but he's shorter than a handful of sf's. brandon bass is a midget too. talent is nice but size is also really important. ti doesn't help when your tallest player s a skinny 6'11 with knee problems that's only getting worse.


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## Hibachi!

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Yeah, this also places KG at C. A place he doesn't really want to be. Although I suppose it wasn't much different with the Baconator.


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## myst

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Perkins, Shaq and JO are gone, so they replace them with Jeff Green, Brandan Bass and David West? They have no chance against the Heat now that the Heat's weakest position doesn't even matter against the Celtics. Chalmers, Wade, Miller/Battier, Lebron, Bosh is too good for the Cetics. If they want to go big they can replace Chalmers with Haslem, have Lebron guard Rondo, and have a lineup of Lebron, Wade, Battier/Miller, Haslem and Bosh. That would be a sweep.


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## LamarButler

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Its not like there's big, back-to-the-basket centers that the Celtics have to face to get to the Finals. KG played 1/3 to 1/2 his minutes at center last year anyways. But regardless, the Celtics just added a 19 and 8 player. Defense may take a slight hit, but scoring won't be a problem for this team. And this is easily the best rebounding squad we've had since the championship year.


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## Adam

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

The top four teams in the East in order are currently:

Miami
New York
Chicago
Boston


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## Hibachi!

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

I also think West is a massive black hole with the ball. I'd think that would conflict with Boston's sharing policy.


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## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



LamarButler said:


> If its really Jermaine O'Neal for him... Then here comes Banner 18


:2ti:


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## LamarButler

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Laugh all you want. I'll just bump this when we win the championship


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## Adam

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



LamarButler said:


> Laugh all you want. I'll just bump this when we win the championship


More likely I will be bumping this when your team is the Pacers within two years.


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## Diable

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

West is a good player if he's healthy, the guy had an All Star season a couple years ago and this is a really reasonable deal for him. It mostly takes the scoring burden off Pierce and Allen. Absolutely no clue why the Hornets would do this unless they plan on trading O'Neal to the Anatomy Board for Medical Research.


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## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

:2ti: stop, please.


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## Floods

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Terrific. We just rid ourselves of the worthless Glen Davis, at long last, and now we acquire his slimmed-down twin brother for god knows what kind of contract.

If this is above two years, then Danny Ainge is a ****ing moron.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: David West to the Celtics*



kbdullah said:


> Did not see this coming. So I guess they don't see themselves bringing back Jeff Green?


Green's allegedly signing his QO in order to benefit from next summer's free agent frenzy (when some team with cap space will overpay him just so that they can say that they did something.)



kbdullah said:


> And so much for NOH cutting salary and getting younger. Hope they move those players to someone who is willing to give them something for them.


They're getting Avery Bradley (who is pretty young the last time I checked) and the cash to buy out O'Neal's Reanimated Corpse . And ORC's headed to the Miami Heat as a free agent. So, nice try, but one million is just _a liiiiiiiiittle_ less than $60 million. (And you know what? Some owners are going to object to spending the money. Just like some of them did last year during the Landry deal. But, no, the $60 million in additional salary and the destruction of the resale value had nothing to do with the objections.)


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



HKF said:


> So KG is going to play center?


Some. They signed Wilcox to play center, but they needed another starting quality PF or C (and just to forestall the chuckleheads, another in addition to Garnett, not Wilcox) because as part of the schedule they want to severely limit Garnett's minutes until the playoffs. That the player was West doesn't bother me.



MojoPin said:


> if true, you-know-what is going to hit the fan.


New Orleans can still make a deal, what they can't do is create a giant trade exception to help the Lakers land Dwight Howard too. 

And I know you Laker fans are in denial, but that's what was pissing off the majority of the owners, that they were being asked to foot the bill for Lakers' aspirations. If the deal hadn't added $60 million in salary to the Hornets' payroll for four roleplayers, the majority of owners wouldn't have cared. Normally in these trades the team losing the superstar _unloads_ the overpriced flotsam, they don't end up the dumping site for it all.


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## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Garnett at center is pretty terrible. He'd be overpowered constantly by guys like Marc Gasol and Bynum.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

On the rare occasions they play Memphis, Orlando or LA (assuming that Bynum is even healthy) you'll see Wilcox take the majority of minutes at C. Outside that I don't think the likes of Fluffy Lopez will be overpowering anyone.


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## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Actually the only bigs that consistently give Lopez trouble on offense are Dwight and Bogut. Lopez would kill KG down low.


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## LamarButler

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

^^ And? Not like the Celtics will have to play the Nets with Brook Lopez in the playoffs.


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## jayk009

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Adding David West doesn't necessarily mean they will be alot better, but considering what they are giving up...this is a steal for boston.


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## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



LamarButler said:


> ^^ And? Not like the Celtics will have to play the Nets with Brook Lopez in the playoffs.


:whoknows: was just responding to the idea of Lopez being pushed around on offense.

The Nets won't make the playoffs this year without some huge roster changes, I understand that. But at least I'm not claiming a championship based on the acquisition of one David West.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



Brian said:


> Actually the only bigs that consistently give Lopez trouble on offense are Dwight and Bogut. Lopez would kill KG down low.


Fluffy doesn't beat up on anyone, and that's all that Boston's worried about.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Celtics fans are a myopic bunch. Whined endlessly about Bynum rough housing the modern bill Russell that is Kendrick Perkins and therefore cost them the 2010 ring. Now Kevin Garnett playing the pivot will lead them there. :laugh:


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Here's a question, why would the nba sign and trade a free agent just to help another team out? All they are getting back is a useless cripple. At least the raptors and cavs got back picks. 

Hmmm maybe oneal to la instead of the tpe?


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## seifer0406

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

you can't compare this to the rejected Paul trade. West is a free agent and this is a sign and trade. For a player of West's caliber you're not looking at massive return in a sign and trade.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



seifer0406 said:


> you can't compare this to the rejected Paul trade. West is a free agent and this is a sign and trade. For a player of West's caliber you're not looking at massive return in a sign and trade.


Why take back the salary and player they don't need at all? I mean Cuban got mad when they traded for Landry, but at least he filled a need.


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## seifer0406

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



Jamel Irief said:


> Why take back the salary and player they don't need at all? I mean Cuban got mad when they traded for Landry, but at least he filled a need.


They are flipping O'neal to another team according to realgm. It's hard to say if the Hornets need whoever they end up getting. They only have like 6 guys on the team right now.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



seifer0406 said:


> They are flipping O'neal to another team according to realgm. It's hard to say if the Hornets need whoever they end up getting. They only have like 6 guys on the team right now.


Lakers? Please...

"we decided to trade our all star big man for a corpse for basketball reasons."


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## edabomb

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

I don't see this deal as being any sort of game changer.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

In reality though I would rather have talented scorers at the 4 and KG at center than KG at the 4 and a bunch of crippled stiffs in the pivot.


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## HB

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Funny how 'fluffy' seems to have good games against the vaunted Celtics defense.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



HB said:


> Funny how 'fluffy' seems to have good games against the vaunted Celtics defense.


And the nets still lose by double digits when he does. Nobody makes trades worried about the Nets.


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## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Offseason wouldn't be the same without LamarButler putting his foot in his mouth with guarantees about Celtics winning a title again.


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## seifer0406

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

I guess this means that the Celtics won't be re-signing Jeff Green?


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## HB

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



Jamel Irief said:


> And the nets still lose by double digits when he does. Nobody makes trades worried about the Nets.


Thread ain't about the nets don't know why they were dragged in it.


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## seifer0406

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Not that it matters I think my Raptors are in worse shape than your Nets.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



> Rivers: Green Agrees to Deal with Celtics
> By HOOPSWORLD
> Basketball News & NBA Rumors
> EmailPrint0 Comments
> (Doc) Rivers later revealed that restricted free agent forward Jeff Green was in attendance, but could not participate, after agreeing to a one-year deal — presumably at the $5.9 million qualifying offer the team extended before the lockout. Green was one of a handful of players that didn’t clear the necessary hurdles, even after the Celtics waited an extra 75 minutes to start practice.
> 
> via Chris Forsberg of ESPN Boston


..


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## HB

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

In the grand scheme of things though, a Green/Bass/West/Kg front court is pretty decent.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



Dissonance said:


> Offseason wouldn't be the same without LamarButler putting his foot in his mouth with guarantees about Celtics winning a title again.


Can someone put his quote in the sig? I already had my turn.


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## thaKEAF

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

Who's gonna play center?


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## LamarButler

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



Dissonance said:


> Offseason wouldn't be the same without LamarButler putting his foot in his mouth with guarantees about Celtics winning a title again.


They've been to the Finals 2 out of the 3 times they've had their starters, and won the championship one of those times. And they're supposed to add a 2-time All-Star to their lineup that addresses their 3 biggest needs (scoring, rebounding, and reducing KG's minutes). I have a reason to be confident.


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## Adam

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



LamarButler said:


> They've been to the Finals 2 out of the 3 times they've had their starters, and won the championship one of those times. And they're supposed to add a 2-time All-Star to their lineup that addresses their 3 biggest needs (scoring, rebounding, and reducing KG's minutes). I have a reason to be confident.


They didn't even get past the second round last year. They can't beat Miami or Chicago so who are they supposed to beat in the second round this year?


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## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



thaKEAF said:


> Who's gonna play center?


Someone like Chris Kaman. They're not done quite yet, I expect that Rondo's going to be turned into a center somehow.


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## c_dog

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

garnett is pretty much a corpse at this point. he is so done. allen and pierce are the two players who are still somewhat a shell of their former selves. boston's window has closed. this signing is an attempt to pry it back open. not going to work though.


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## LamarButler

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



Adam said:


> They didn't even get past the second round last year. They can't beat Miami or Chicago so who are they supposed to beat in the second round this year?


We'll see these playoffs how much of a difference having a PG with 2 arms and adding a 2 time All-Star will make.


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## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



c_dog said:


> garnett is pretty much a corpse at this point. he is so done. allen and pierce are the two players who are still somewhat a shell of their former selves. boston's window has closed. this signing is an attempt to pry it back open. not going to work though.


You.....you know KG was on the all-defensive first team last year, right? He may not be "Perennial MVP candidate Kevin Garnett" anymore, but he's far from a corpse.


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## Adam

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



LamarButler said:


> We'll see these playoffs how much of a difference having a PG with 2 arms and adding a 2 time All-Star will make.


You're losing a 6 time all-star to get a 2 time all-star. Seems to me you're minus 4 all-stars. Maybe you should pick up Shaq again to increase your all-star net. Perhaps he can even donate some ACL's to your new 2 time all-star.


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## LamarButler

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*

If you're gonna make arguments like that, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.


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## Floods

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



HB said:


> In the grand scheme of things though, a Green/Bass/West/Kg front court is pretty decent.


A tweener forward, a soft PF who can't rebound or defend, an aging KG, and Brandon Bass is not 'pretty decent'. We're going to get mauled up front.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



LamarButler said:


> We'll see these playoffs how much of a difference having a PG with 2 arms and adding a 2 time All-Star will make.


So is that 3 years in a row you are blaming Celtic playoff failures on injuries? You have an old injury prone team, that's why it's foolish to pick them to get banner 18. Maybe you should write off your team now to save yourself time when KG and David West both blow out knees.


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## Ron

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



> *Adrian Wojnarowski* @WojYahooNBA 5 mins
> 
> Boston-NO deal for David West still on hold, sources say. Waiting on NBA. C's rookies, JaJuan Johnson and E'Twan Moore discussed in deal.


I was wondering what was going on with this.


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## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Boston / New Orleans Deal For David West On Hold, Waiting on NBA*

Yeah if I were the Hornets I would be asking for JaJuan Johnson for sure. That would make sense. Taking O'Neal back is dumb unless it is part of some inscrutable grand design.


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## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Boston / NO deal for West on hold, waiting on NBA; Indiana waiting in win*

*Pacers ready to swoop in if Celtics can’t land West*


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## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Boston / NO deal for West on hold, waiting on NBA; Indiana waiting in win*

"Banner 18" this yr may be no more :lol: 



> ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
> Sources tell ESPN that Pacers making progress toward two-year, $20M deal with David West thanks to West's stalled sign-and-trade to Boston


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## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Pacers making progress on 2-yr/$20M deal with David West*

Done now.



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> David West has agreed to a 2 year, $20 million deal with Pacers, league source tells Y.


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## 29380

> daldridgetnt Agent Lance Young confirms David West agrees with Indiana on two-year, $20 million deal: "David is ready to help them win a championship."


http://twitter.com/daldridgetnt


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## LamarButler

****in ridiculous


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## Wade2Bosh

No one wanted JO's corpse 


> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> Celtics simply couldn't make 3 way deal with Hornets and Jermaine O'Neal contract.


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## Ron

Knicks4life said:


> daldridgetnt Agent Lance Young confirms David West agrees with Indiana on two-year, $20 million deal: "David is ready to help them win a championship."


:lol:

In what century are we talking? Is West's agent related to Dan Gilbert?


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## Ron

> *Ken Berger* _@KBergCBS_
> Boston made a hard run at West, but best the Celts could do was sign-and-trade for three years and about $24M.


...


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## HKF

With West, Pacers have one of the best starting fives in the NBA. Collison, George, Granger, West and Hibbert. Their bench is also really good as well: Price, (George) Hill, Hansbrough, Jones, Posey, McRoberts, (Jeff) Foster. Pacers are gonna be dangerous. If Hibbert and George become all-star caliber and Hibbert was getting there last year, this team could be a major threat.


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## Dissonance

HKF said:


> With West, Pacers have one of the best starting fives in the NBA. Collison, George, Granger, West and Hibbert. Their bench is also really good as well: Price, (George) Hill, Hansbrough, Jones, Posey, McRoberts, (Jeff) Foster. Pacers are gonna be dangerous. If Hibbert and George become all-star caliber and Hibbert was getting there last year, this team could be a major threat.


They're working on a S/T for Mayo and sending McRoberts to Memphis.


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## Hibachi!

> daldridgetnt Agent Lance Young confirms David West agrees with Indiana on two-year, $20 million deal: *"David is ready to help them win a championship."*


:lol:


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## HKF

Not sure I understand that because it creates a problem in the backcourt. How do you play Collison, Hill, Price, George and Mayo? It's a lot of talent, but unless they are shipping out Granger and moving George to the 3, this is a gonna be a flustercuck for backcourt minutes.


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## Diable

This is an excellent signing, but it makes you wonder why West did not try to work out an extension in NOLA. Indiana gets a good price and very little risk in two years. West looks like he ****ed up by not staying with the Hornets and working out something longer. This is basically what he would have made this year in NOLA if he had not opted out, only with an additional year. Not sure why there is not something better for him unless the doctors don't like his knee.


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## jaw2929

That's a helluva pickup for Indiana. David West is one of the best under-rated players in the league.

With West gone and Paul leaving, New Orleans is dead in the water.


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## Knick Killer

FINALLY years and years of being mediocre at best look to be paying off. Call me crazy but I see this team becoming a championship calibre team in a couple of years.


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## thaKEAF

Got damnit not McRoberts again


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## Game3525

Hibachi! said:


> :lol:


Got to keep faith......


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## Dissonance

> To be accurate, Boston had a sign-and-trade with New Orleans for David West ready to do. West wanted more money annually, took Pacers offer.


WojYahooNBA


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## Bogg

HKF said:


> Not sure I understand that because it creates a problem in the backcourt. How do you play Collison, Hill, Price, George and Mayo? It's a lot of talent, but unless they are shipping out Granger and moving George to the 3, this is a gonna be a flustercuck for backcourt minutes.


Price doesn't really play because he's not all that great; Collison starts at point, Mayo starts at the two; Hill backs them both up; George is the sixth man who sees time at shooting guard and both forward spots, depending on matchups? It's really not that difficult of a predicament.


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## rocketeer

HKF said:


> Not sure I understand that because it creates a problem in the backcourt. How do you play Collison, Hill, Price, George and Mayo? It's a lot of talent, but unless they are shipping out Granger and moving George to the 3, this is a gonna be a flustercuck for backcourt minutes.


you don't play price and george picks up the backup small forward minutes. that basically works it all out for now. it's not like collison, george, or hill have ever played 30+ per game in their careers and there should be an additional 20 mintues or so for george to pick up behind granger.


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## LA68

People seem to forget. There are going to be back to back to back nights, some games on the road. You aren't gonna play the same guys 40 mins in that situation. Its good to have guys like Mayo who can start a game or two to rest the others. Young depth is a good thing to have this season. 

Its not always which team is the best that wins. It might be the team that's the freshest !


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## futuristxen

LA68 said:


> People seem to forget. There are going to be back to back to back nights, some games on the road. You aren't gonna play the same guys 40 mins in that situation. Its good to have guys like Mayo who can start a game or two to rest the others. Young depth is a good thing to have this season.
> 
> Its not always which team is the best that wins. It might be the team that's the freshest !


A point some of these teams don't seem to understand *cough Knicks*


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## HKF

I do not see why you would start Mayo over Paul George. Paul George is better than him.


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## rocketeer

LA68 said:


> People seem to forget. There are going to be back to back to back nights, some games on the road. You aren't gonna play the same guys 40 mins in that situation. Its good to have guys like Mayo who can start a game or two to rest the others. Young depth is a good thing to have this season.
> 
> Its not always which team is the best that wins. It might be the team that's the freshest !


i think this point is going to be way overrated all year. it probably will some some effect on regular season record. so it will impact who gets homecourt and then who sneaks into the playoffs who maybe shouldn't have. and that's it.



futuristxen said:


> A point some of these teams don't seem to understand *cough Knicks*


do you think the knicks are at risk of missing the playoffs? do you think it really makes much of a difference if they are the 3 seed or the 6 seed? i'd say no to both.


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## Floods

Knick_Killer31 said:


> FINALLY years and years of being mediocre at best look to be paying off. Call me crazy but I see this team becoming a championship calibre team in a couple of years.


You're signing David West and expecting to escape mediocrity? Good luck with that.

Thank god the Celtics couldn't close the deal. That was close.


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## R-Star

Floods said:


> You're signing David West and expecting to escape mediocrity? Good luck with that.
> 
> Thank god the Celtics couldn't close the deal. That was close.


Wow. You think the Celtics are somehow in better shape right now than the Pacers?

The Pacers are in waaaaay better shape going forward compared to the old balls Celtics.


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## Floods

R-Star said:


> Wow. You think the Celtics are somehow in better shape right now than the Pacers?


Never said this.



> The Pacers are in waaaaay better shape going forward compared to the old balls Celtics.


Not saying much.

David West is horrible.


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## Bogg

HKF said:


> I do not see why you would start Mayo over Paul George. Paul George is better than him.


Because Mayo's a much better three-point shooter and George's versatility off the bench will be important. Starting Collison(who isn't much of a perimeter threat) and two legit big men in Hibbert and West would leave Granger as the only threat from long-distance, meaning everyone collapses in on the post players. Furthermore, it creates a log-jam at the guard position, as you have Hill, Mayo, and Rush all coming off the bench, none of whom are really big enough to back up Granger at the three. Lastly, are you _sure_ Paul George is that good? Mayo just had a terrible season, but was a legitimate two-guard for his first two seasons before that, while George put up a pretty uniform 8 and 4 throughout the season last year and got worse in the playoffs. I know there's excitement because he's a young guy with promise, but I seriously doubt he's actually better than Mayo.


----------



## HKF

Yes, George is better than Mayo, bigger, more athletic, and in his second year, he's poised to have a breakout season. Sky is the limit for him. Mayo is the 6th man and might not even be better than George Hill. Honestly, I had totally forgot about Brandon Rush. If he isn't walking, I am not sure why they even need Mayo.


----------



## Bogg

HKF said:


> Yes, George is better than Mayo, *bigger, more athletic, and in his second year, he's poised to have a breakout season. Sky is the limit for him.* Mayo is the 6th man and might not even be better than George Hill. Honestly, I had totally forgot about Brandon Rush. If he isn't walking, I am not sure why they even need Mayo.


None of that means he makes sense as a two-guard in that lineup. I may be totally wrong, George may have gone real hard over the summer and come back with a good jumpshot. However, his inability to space the floor is going to prove a huge problem in that lineup, as opposed to bringing him off the bench as a poor man's Lamar Odom to back up three positions during a season when fresh legs are going to be vital. Mayo's being horribly underrated by the way, he put up back-to-back seasons of 18, 4, and 3 before his down year last season and plays pretty decent defense. I love his fit in Indy.


----------



## HKF

He spaced the floor just fine in the playoffs last year. Mayo didn't just have a down year. He was pretty bad in the playoffs, getting completely blown up by James Harden.


----------



## Bogg

HKF said:


> *He spaced the floor just fine in the playoffs last year.* Mayo didn't just have a down year. He was pretty bad in the playoffs, getting completely blown up by James Harden.


No, he didn't. George shot 23% from three and 30% overall against the Bulls. Go with an actual shooting guard at the shooting guard position and let George back up three positions, use the young legs to run teams into the ground this season.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Bogg said:


> Because Mayo's a much better three-point shooter and George's versatility off the bench will be important. Starting Collison(who isn't much of a perimeter threat) and two legit big men in Hibbert and West would leave Granger as the only threat from long-distance, meaning everyone collapses in on the post players.


Not entirely. West and Hibbert have shown the ability to make very long 2's and Collison is an efficient 3-point shooter who only takes good shots. Everyone in that starting lineup has range.

And you're entirely wrong on Paul George. I think you're viewing him as a typical college athlete with no jump shot who relies on his athleticism for defense. Those guys flame out. George came into the league billed as a 3-point shooter with some athleticism, but he had a down year on the 3's mainly because of his mechanics. I have no doubt that he can become a 37-38% 3-point shooter very soon. And the hype on George isn't just because he's young. He made probably the single greatest improvement over the course of one season I have ever seen from a Pacer. In last year's summer league, he had some highlights, but he couldn't guard anyone, turned the ball over a lot due to a shaky handle and poor decision-making, and he jacked a bunch of 3's. After being out of the rotation all season, he flourished under Frank Vogel and some consistent playing time. Towards the end he showed better mechanics on his jumper (which I expect to be a lot better this season), a handle on the ball that was bad instead of atrocious, decent decision-making with the ball, and more explosiveness on the offensive end. But that's just on offense. The real hype with George is his defense. He went from being unable to guard D League caliber guys early on in the season to checking Derrick Rose in the playoffs. If he can improve that much over the course of one season, I imagine he'll come back much better after an entire summer to improve. I just hope he doesn't go the Danny Granger route, who was a stellar defender and rebounder his first two years and had a jump shot, but as soon as he became a very good shooter, stopped focusing on the rest of his game.




> Furthermore, it creates a log-jam at the guard position, as you have Hill, Mayo, and Rush all coming off the bench, none of whom are really big enough to back up Granger at the three.


For the 13 or so minutes that Granger's out of the game, George can back him up, and we can slide someone else in at SG. My main concern is that Paul George is 6'10"-6'10" 1/2, so he's a little tall to start at SG.

And Rush is terrible. Actually, he has a lot of skill, but he's the most timid player for his skillset that I've probably ever seen. Good defender, good rebounder, good shooter, and at times explosive, and he just sucks at basketball. I'd be surprised to see him still in a Pacers uniform this year.

The logjam wouldn't be much of a logjam if you think Hill can play backup PG, have Mayo as backup SG, George as the starting 2 and backup 3, and then Rush or Dahntay Jones, along with AJ Price, filling in a few minutes.




> Lastly, are you _sure_ Paul George is that good? Mayo just had a terrible season, but was a legitimate two-guard for his first two seasons before that, while George put up a pretty uniform 8 and 4 throughout the season last year and got worse in the playoffs. I know there's excitement because he's a young guy with promise, but I seriously doubt he's actually better than Mayo.


I don't think he's better than Mayo, but to say that he got worse in the playoffs shows that you didn't watch the series. He shot terribly, yes, but what do you expect when the guy has no legs because he's been going 100% on defense to guard Derrick Rose?



> However, his inability to space the floor is going to prove a huge problem in that lineup, as opposed to bringing him off the bench as a poor man's Lamar Odom to back up three positions during a season when fresh legs are going to be vital.


As HKF said, George spaced the floor very well in the playoffs. Problem is, he didn't knock down his shots because his legs were tired. And George is far from Lamar Odom. I'm starting to wonder if you watched Paul George at all last year. He's not strong and is not a good rebounder. It's highly unlikely he sees any minutes at the 4 despite his size. George is a pure swingman who has already shown to be a stellar defender and has the skillset and work ethic to turn into a dynamic scorer. He reminds me a lot of a young, less athletic T-Mac without the court vision.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> Never said this.
> 
> 
> 
> Not saying much.
> 
> David West is horrible.


Yea... except he isn't horrible. He isn't a star, but hes solid. 

You're bitter that your team is ruined bro. That's all this is.


----------



## Knick Killer

Floods said:


> You're signing David West and expecting to escape mediocrity? Good luck with that.
> 
> Thank god the Celtics couldn't close the deal. That was close.


I never said that. Drafting very well over the last couple of years, clearing cap space and bringing in David West and OJ Mayo has made us escape mediocrity. If you honestly still think Indiana is a mediocre team then I look forward to bringing this conversation back up in a couple of months and see where you stand.


----------



## Floods

Yeah, David West's lack of defense and rebounding will totally take you guys to the next level. And O.J. Mayo? Lol.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> Yeah, David West's lack of defense and rebounding will totally take you guys to the next level. And O.J. Mayo? Lol.


8 rebounds a game is going to be bad for them? They don't have other guys perfectly able to dominate the glass already?

And no, West is not a bad defender. Nice try though. And yea, OJ Mayo doesn't help anyone. Hes so old, there's no way he could ever get better than hes shown so far. 

You're a font of basketball knowledge.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> 8 rebounds a game is going to be bad for them? They don't have other guys perfectly able to dominate the glass already?


7 and a half rebounds in 35 minutes a game is not good for what you're paying him. And it's only magnified by the fact that the Hornets were a terrible rebounding team altogether last year.



> And no, West is not a bad defender. Nice try though.


Yes he is. Nice try though.



> And yea, OJ Mayo doesn't help anyone. Hes so old, there's no way he could ever get better than hes shown so far.


Urrite, he was just toying with us last season.



> You're a font of basketball knowledge.


*** No name calling. ***


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> 7 and a half rebounds in 35 minutes a game is not good for what you're paying him. And it's only magnified by the fact that the Hornets were a terrible rebounding team altogether last year.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes he is. Nice try though.
> 
> 
> 
> Urrite, he was just toying with us last season.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep shoveling, R-tard.


No one but you is calling him a terrible defender. But I guess we should all just take your word for it. 

But I do have to agree, 24 year old OJ Mayo whom has played 3 seasons in the NBA is a finished product. Young players never improve. They are finished products who can only stay the same or decline. 


Its funny, once again you're looking like an . We should be used to that by now.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> No one but you is calling him a terrible defender. But I guess we should all just take your word for it.


Better than your word.



> But I do have to agree, 24 year old OJ Mayo whom has played 3 seasons in the NBA is a finished product. Young players never improve. They are finished products who can only stay the same or decline.


Decline. Pretty sure that's OJ did last year.



> Its funny, once again you're looking like an idiot. We should be used to that by now.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> Better than your word.
> 
> 
> 
> Decline. Pretty sure that's OJ did last year.
> 
> 
> 
> R-tard's mad.


I'm mad? Nah. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one laughing at you.

"Well my word is better than your word." wow.... that's where you've decided to go with your argument? You went down pretty quick this time I'd have to say.

Slapping around the likes of you is something I'll never get tired of.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> "Well my word is better than your word." wow.... that's where you've decided to go with your argument? You went down pretty quick this time I'd have to say.


So David West is a crappy rebounder, though.



> Slapping around the likes of you is something I'll never get tired of.


Once you actually succeed at doing that, the novelty will wear off pretty quick.

We all know slapping is your preferred method of fighting anyway.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> So David West is a crappy rebounder, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Once you actually succeed at doing that, the novelty will wear off pretty quick.


7-8 rebounds a game puts him as an average rebounder, not crappy. 

Guys like you who have no idea about the actual game of basketball seem to think if your stats don't say 20 and 10, you're a shitty player. Its pretty funny. Guys like you also equate rebounding to defense. Its adorable.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> 7-8 rebounds a game puts him as an average rebounder, not crappy.
> 
> Guys like you who have no idea about the actual game of basketball seem to think if your stats don't say 20 and 10, you're a shitty player. Its pretty funny.


So you're paying David West $10 million a year to be a crappy rebounder, play shitty defense, be soft, and spam 18 foot jump shots. Sounds like a plan, you guys will be contenders in no time.



> Guys like you also equate rebounding to defense.



And I was hoping your huckleberry retard ass would be gone for good this time. But no, apparently some higher power decided I had too many brain cells left.


----------



## Diable

I would guess that I have seen West play about as much as anyone. He is a good, but not great defender although his lack of size and lack of great athleticism hinder him a little. He is a good enough rebounder, but his numbers are a bit low because of the low pace of a Hornets game. The Hornets pretty much have fewest possessions per game in the league, which means that anyone who only looks at a stat sheet is going to be misled about the actual capabilities of their players. West is not a great player, he's not really tall. 

He is a clearly better player than Tyson Chandler, unless you are in the position where Tyson Chandler is the last piece of the puzzle. Chandler got about three times the money and hardly anyone said much about it. Chandler has had more injury problems. Some of the stuff in this thread is baffling for people who actually watched West play. He's a good player and this is a good signing with minimal risk. Hating on him and this signing is just insane.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> So you're paying David West $10 million a year to be a crappy rebounder, play shitty defense, be soft, and spam 18 foot jump shots. Sounds like a plan, you guys will be contenders in no time.
> 
> 
> 
> Just how ****ing stupid are you?
> 
> And I was hoping your huckleberry retard ass would be gone for good this time. But no, apparently some higher power decided I had too many brain cells left.


We're paying him 10 mil a year for rebounding? I kind of thought it was for his scoring myself, but hey, you seem to have the inside track.


You want to keep this going? The best is you going "You're mad" no, you put me in quite a good mood. Especially when you start ranting and raving, showing you're clearly losing your temper.


Continue to freak out and lose it. I'm waiting to go for lunch and you're entertaining me. The only other advice I have is to actually figure out how the game of basketball is played. You have no idea what you're talking about half the time.


----------



## R-Star

Diable said:


> I would guess that I have seen West play about as much as anyone. He is a good, but not great defender although his lack of size and lack of great athleticism hinder him a little. He is a good enough rebounder, but his numbers are a bit low because of the low pace of a Hornets game. The Hornets pretty much have fewest possessions per game in the league, which means that anyone who only looks at a stat sheet is going to be misled about the actual capabilities of their players. West is not a great player, he's not really tall.
> 
> He is a clearly better player than Tyson Chandler, unless you are in the position where Tyson Chandler is the last piece of the puzzle. Chandler got about three times the money and hardly anyone said much about it. Chandler has had more injury problems. Some of the stuff in this thread is baffling for people who actually watched West play. He's a good player and this is a good signing with minimal risk. Hating on him and this signing is just insane.


Thanks. Good to see a take from someone who's seen a lot of West.

Floods might be mad though. We're supposed to take his opinion on West. Hes a bad defender because he doesn't get 10 rebounds a game.


----------



## Bogg

I kinda like West on a two-year contract. Indy badly needed a power forward, the market for Nene is ridiculous, and if West is healthy he's a borderline all-star. Worst case scenario, he blows out his knee again, the Pacers amnesty him, and they have cap space again next year. I don't see the downside.

EDIT: Contracts signed after the new CBA aren't eligible for amnesty. Completely blanked. Still, two years is a short-term commitment, there's no chance of this becoming an albatross that handcuffs the franchise.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> We're paying him 10 mil a year for rebounding? I kind of thought it was for his scoring myself, but hey, you seem to have the inside track.


So you're paying him 10 mil just to chuck up mid-range jump shots. Sharp.



> You want to keep this going? The best is you going "You're mad" no, you put me in quite a good mood. *Especially when you start ranting and raving, showing you're clearly losing your temper.*


You have no shame, do you?



> I would guess that I have seen West play about as much as anyone. He is a good, but not great defender although his lack of size and lack of great athleticism hinder him a little. He is a good enough rebounder, but his numbers are a bit low because of the low pace of a Hornets game. The Hornets pretty much have fewest possessions per game in the league, which means that anyone who only looks at a stat sheet is going to be misled about the actual capabilities of their players. West is not a great player, he's not really tall.


His lack of athleticism hinders more than a little on defense.

The rebounding thing is mostly conjecture until we see what exactly what he can do on a faster game.



> He is a clearly better player than Tyson Chandler, unless you are in the position where Tyson Chandler is the last piece of the puzzle. Chandler got about three times the money and hardly anyone said much about it. Chandler has had more injury problems.


Um, what? Chandler's a ridiculously better rebounder and defender than West. He may not be able to hit the mid-range shot, but that's a pretty replaceable skill.



> Some of the stuff in this thread is baffling for people who actually watched West play. He's a good player and this is a good signing with minimal risk. Hating on him and this signing is just insane.


He's basically a slimmed down Glen Davis.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> Thanks. Good to see a take from someone who's seen a lot of West.
> 
> Floods might be mad though. We're supposed to take his opinion on West. Hes a bad defender because he doesn't get 10 rebounds a game.


You're piggy-backing Diable now? You sure went down fast.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> You're piggy-backing Diable now? You sure went down fast.


No. Not really. I was under the assumption I already handled you. You know, seeing as how everyone else in this thread is agreeing wit me and, well you know, disagreeing with you.


----------



## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> Thanks. Good to see a take from someone who's seen a lot of West.
> 
> Floods might be mad though. We're supposed to take his opinion on West. Hes a bad defender because he doesn't get 10 rebounds a game.


West played high school ball in North Carolina. Let me put it this way, if I insulted West's game Diable would say something bad about Andrew Bynum or Kobe.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> No. Not really. I was under the assumption I already handled you. You know, seeing as how everyone else in this thread is agreeing wit me and, well you know, disagreeing with you.


So the opinions of third parties are what dictate whether or not you've 'handled' me? That's a good one.

Go to lunch, R-tard.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> So the opinions of third parties are what dictate whether or not you've 'handled' me? That's a good one.
> 
> Go to lunch, R-tard.


As opposed to your "IM RIGHT BITCH!"? Yes. I would say the fact that you are the only one of a negative opinion here shows you're probably wrong.


----------



## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> West played high school ball in North Carolina. Let me put it this way, if I insulted West's game Diable would say something bad about Andrew Bynum or Kobe.


I don't know. Doesn't seem like hes trying to paint West as anything he isn't. 

When playing his best, hes a borderline allstar.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> As opposed to your "IM RIGHT BITCH!"?


Well, technically it's yours, I was just borrowing it.



> I would say the fact that you are the only one of a negative opinion here shows you're probably wrong.


And that's why you're a retard.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> Well, technically it's yours, I was just borrowing it.
> 
> 
> 
> And that's why you're a retard.


Care to elaborate? 

This is getting downright pathetic.

Here I'll write your reply

"You're the uhhh. you're the pathetic here R-Star!"


You say David West sucks at D, people reply he doesn't. You quit. You say he sucks at rebounding. I say 7-8 a game is average. You quit. Now you're stuck with "You're a retard!"

Honestly. Great debating skills junior. You can't carry on your ridiculous stance that 10 mil a year for a quality starting power forward is a terrible deal, so now you're floundering. 


Its honestly really ****ing sad. You always have been one of the worst posters around here though so I'm not surprised. What happened to your old Lebron avy? Dick riding someone else these days?


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> Care to elaborate?
> 
> This is getting downright pathetic.
> 
> Here I'll write your reply
> 
> "You're the uhhh. you're the pathetic here R-Star!"


The 'I'M RIGHT BITCH' routine is your thing. I was using it on you. Did I elaborate enough?



> You say David West sucks at D, people reply he doesn't. You quit.


o rly



> You say he sucks at rebounding. I say 7-8 a game is average. You quit. Now you're stuck with "You're a retard!"


o rly



> Honestly. Great debating skills junior. You can't carry on your ridiculous stance that 10 mil a year for a quality starting power forward is a terrible deal, so now you're floundering.


I made my points. I refuted yours and Diable's. You are the one who has quit, champ. Understandable though, it's 12:30 or something over there, you must be bombed by now.



> Its honestly really ****ing sad. You always have been one of the worst posters around here though so I'm not surprised. What happened to your old Lebron avy? Dick riding someone else these days?


I can't ride someone's else dick while you're riding mine.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> The 'I'M RIGHT BITCH' routine is your thing. I was using it on you. Did I elaborate enough?
> 
> 
> 
> o rly
> 
> 
> 
> o rly
> 
> 
> 
> I made my points. I refuted yours and Diable's. You are the one who has quit, champ. Understandable though, it's 12:30 or something over there, you must be bombed by now.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't ride someone's else dick while you're riding mine.


:laugh:

Ok everyone, here comes so quality posting from Floods.


Hey, Floods, can you do me a favor and post where you refute _anything_ posted by me and Diable? Anything. 
We'll wait for your reply. Just quote some stuff you _refuted_. You know, about his defense and rebounding. 

We'll wait for you ok?


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Ok everyone, here comes so quality posting from Floods.
> 
> 
> Hey, Floods, can you do me a favor and post where you refute _anything_ posted by me and Diable? Anything.
> We'll wait for your reply. Just quote some stuff you _refuted_. You know, about his defense and rebounding.
> 
> We'll wait for you ok?


Here you go:




Floods said:


> So you're paying him 10 mil just to chuck up mid-range jump shots. Sharp.


You never responded to this. I posted it because whenever I pointed out a flaw in his game, you just said 'that's not what we're paying him for'. Until Diable came along



Floods said:


> His lack of athleticism hinders more than a little on defense.
> 
> The rebounding thing is mostly conjecture until we see what exactly what he can do on a faster game.


No one ever responded to this. They're both true statements. His recent rebounding rates are etched in stone so there's not a lot of point in speculating how Indy will change that.



> Um, what? Chandler's a ridiculously better rebounder and defender than West. He may not be able to hit the mid-range shot, but that's a pretty replaceable skill.
> 
> He's basically a slimmed down Glen Davis.


...

So yeah, after this post you started with the whole 'I haf moar peepul agreeing wif me lol u loose' routine.


----------



## Floods

I'm not waiting for you R-tard. I got shit to do. I'll deal with whatever you spit out later.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You never responded to this. I posted it because whenever I pointed out a flaw in his game, you just said 'that's not what we're paying him for'. Until Diable came along
> 
> 
> 
> No one ever responded to this. They're both true statements. His recent rebounding rates are etched in stone so there's not a lot of point in speculating how Indy will change that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So yeah, after this post you started with the whole 'I haf moar peepul agreeing wif me lol u loose' routine.


Hes a mid range jump shooter because...... you say so right? And even if he was, him putting up 16-20 ppg for the Pacers is going to what? Hurt them? I know you saying he'll be bricking mid range shots kind of looks stupid, you know, because he had .508fg% last year. 

And I'm confused, 7-8 rebounds a game isn't average? Because it is. Show me a post in here where someone said we just signed a top rebounder. I'd like to see it. Or a lock down defender. I'd love to see that post too.

So no, I'm sorry, I'm still looking for your refutes buddy. I haven't seen you refute anything as of yet. You've stated an opinion, albeit quite a terrible one, but refute? I don't think you understand the word.

Me bringing up Wests .508? That refutes you alluding to him being a bad jump shooter. You saying you think hes a shitty defender? Not. Understand the word refute next time please.


----------



## R-Star

Floods said:


> I'm not waiting for you R-tard. I got shit to do. I'll deal with whatever you spit out later.


Those bottles on the side of the road aren't going to take them to the recycling plant themselves, are they?


----------



## CavsNut96

David West is leaving NOLA and will not be sighn and traded and his contrat shouldn't be to big judging by his injuries and reliabllity but the pick up makes liitle scence to me at least in the case of the Celtics who have Kevin Garnet and Jeff Green already and don't need another four. What the Celtics need the to do is pick up Alexis Ajinca a young 7 footer who may finally add that inside intesinty that the old Celtics have beed missing. If not Ajinca maybe a differnt young free angent or get a center though a trade.

For David West I would like to see him on a Team with John Wall but thats just Dreaming. I think we will see him on a Spurs team or a Indana maybe New Jersey. We know most teams need to be weary of his Health but if teams want to take a slight risk good for them.


----------



## Floods

R-Star said:


> Hes a mid range jump shooter because...... you say so right? And even if he was, him putting up 16-20 ppg for the Pacers is going to what? Hurt them? I know you saying he'll be bricking mid range shots kind of looks stupid, you know, because he had .508fg% last year.


If you needed a soft jump shooting PF that much, you should've went after Glen Davis and paid a fraction of the price.



> And I'm confused, 7-8 rebounds a game isn't average? Because it is. Show me a post in here where someone said we just signed a top rebounder. I'd like to see it. Or a lock down defender. I'd love to see that post too.


In 35 minutes? His peers pull down more than that in less minutes. He's a subpar rebounder. And him being a crappy defender isn't an _opinion_. 

Paying someone 10 million to be soft and spam 18 footers isn't a good use of money. Unless the Pacers' goal is the 7 seed every year, he won't do anything for them.



> Me bringing up Wests .508? That refutes you alluding to him being a bad jump shooter. You saying you think hes a shitty defender? Not. Understand the word refute next time please.


I NEVER SAID HE WAS A BAD JUMP SHOOTER, YOU FAILED ABORTION.


----------



## rocketeer

i'm confused. david west is a good offensive player, an average rebounder, and an above average defender. his rebounding is on the level of guys like amare, bosh, aldridge, millsap, and marc gasol.

so yeah, david west is a good player all around.


----------



## cpawfan

rocketeer said:


> i'm confused. david west ... an above average defender.


You're beyond confused, you're completely delusional.


----------



## Luke

David West is not a great player, period. But he is a nice scorer and is a good fit on the Pacers. 10 million may be a little steep but considering it's only a two year deal I really don't have a problem with this. Honestly considering their situation I'd say that they are going to be a tough out this upcoming season, not contenders, but definitely have potential to make some noise in the playoffs.


----------



## Bogg

VanillaPrice said:


> David West is not a great player, period. But he is a nice scorer and is a good fit on the Pacers. 10 million may be a little steep but considering it's only a two year deal I really don't have a problem with this. Honestly considering their situation I'd say that they are going to be a tough out this upcoming season, not contenders, but definitely have potential to make some noise in the playoffs.


This is what I'd imagine most reasonable people believe. The Pacers aren't going to get out of the second round, but I could definitely see them taking that eventual East champ to 6 games. After everything that's unfolded in the last near-decade, I'd also expect most Pacers fans would be happy with that kind of performance.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Bogg said:


> This is what I'd imagine most reasonable people believe. The Pacers aren't going to get out of the second round, but I could definitely see them taking that eventual East champ to 6 games. After everything that's unfolded in the last near-decade, I'd also expect most Pacers fans would be happy with that kind of performance.


I'd be extremely happy with that performance this season. My concern is how limited this team will be in the future, though. I don't want to become the next Atlanta Hawks, that team that finishes #3/4 in the East every year and never gets over the hump because they're just not good enough. We're banking a lot on Paul George and Roy Hibbert becoming stars.


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## goodfoot

It's only a two-year deal. If it was $8 mil a year, I don't think anyone would be complaining. Paying a little more for the team cap flexibility seems fair. It'll be an expiring deal in 2013.


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## CavsNut96

I think that all you guys will call me insane but the pacers now have some real shoping money and I don't know if this is a good idea i think it would be a better idea to sighn a Nene but I could easily be wrong. I have said before on this thread that David West is health sould be a top concern.


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## Bogg

CavsNut96 said:


> I think that all you guys will call me insane but the pacers now have some real shoping money and I don't know if this is a good idea i think it would be a better idea to sighn a Nene but I could easily be wrong. I have said before on this thread that David West is health sould be a top concern.


The market for Nene is unreasonably inflated, while West was able to be signed without hamstringing the Pacers financially.


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## rocketeer

CavsNut96 said:


> I think that all you guys will call me insane but the pacers now have some real shoping money and I don't know if this is a good idea i think it would be a better idea to sighn a Nene but I could easily be wrong. I have said before on this thread that David West is health sould be a top concern.


nene is going to make significantly more money than west along with having a deal at least twice as long.


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## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Those bottles on the side of the road aren't going to take them to the recycling plant themselves, are they?


You must spread some reputation around before giving it to R-Star again.

:2ti:


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## LA68

I don't see where nene is all that special. I don't remember him taking over any games or hitting any big shots. His numbers are average. A healthy West gets you at least 18/8 and with what they have in Indy, That can work. 

And its a short deal ! Other teams show take note. Bird got rid of old bad deals and doesn't want any new deals to kill the franchise.


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## CavsNut96

Bogg said:


> The market for Nene is unreasonably inflated, while West was able to be signed without hamstringing the Pacers financially.


I dissagree but with like 30 million to shop and rebounding help needed underneath Nene with a little less recent health problems he may cost more but affect on the team would be much more positive than David West. Hansbourogh (spelling not good) is a simalar player so it won't really change the team that much as to Nene + for example a two like Mayo or Crawford The Pacers would be a serious threat in the east. this is a very good point it wouldn't be cheap


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## rocketeer

nene 5 years, 67 million. would definitely rather have west on his 2 for 20.


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## Bogg

Nene's never averaged 8rpg. If anything West is a slightly better rebounder. Nene's better in the post, West is a better shooter. Nene's a better defender. All in all, the Pacers made the right move.


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## Ron

Stop the ****ing name calling.

Jesus H. Christ...you think I want to be editing this shit all night long?

Someone's going on vacation if this continues.


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## CavsNut96

but remember health is a factor I dont think its a bad room I thought he might have a good idea but the pacers don't need another hansbough. Which is what David West is and now that Nene is off the market for a price that I would have never imagined. A hustle defender/rebounder like a Nene or a Kris Humphris. So what about Kris Humphris that better price.


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## rocketeer

Bogg said:


> Nene's never averaged 8rpg. If anything West is a slightly better rebounder. Nene's better in the post, West is a better shooter. Nene's a better defender. All in all, the Pacers made the right move.


nene is a better rebounder, but it's not by much.


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## Bogg

rocketeer said:


> nene is a better rebounder, but it's not by much.


By what criteria? Nene's a decidedly average rebounder for a regular starter. I mean, we're both saying they're similar rebounders, so let's not get too testy over this, but I'd think that West is slightly better.


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## rocketeer

Bogg said:


> By what criteria? Nene's a decidedly average rebounder for a regular starter. I mean, we're both saying they're similar rebounders, so let's not get too testy over this, but I'd think that West is slightly better.


82games.com and basketball reference both show nene having a higher rebound rate than west. and if you don't like that kind of stuff, they averaged the same amount of rebounds per game last year but west played 5 more minutes.


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## Bogg

rocketeer said:


> 82games.com and basketball reference both show nene having a higher rebound rate than west. and if you don't like that kind of stuff, they averaged the same amount of rebounds per game last year but west played 5 more minutes.


Yea, but Tyson Chandler, and then Emeka Okafor, are better rebounders than Kenyon Martin. Since this is going to go nowhere, and we basically agree, are you cool with just leaving it at "they're similar in rebounding ability and it can't be definitively proven which is better"?


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## Adam

Bogg said:


> Yea, but Tyson Chandler, and then Emeka Okafor, are better rebounders than Kenyon Martin. Since this is going to go nowhere, and we basically agree, are you cool with just leaving it at "they're similar in rebounding ability and it can't be definitively proven which is better"?


The better rebounder is the one with the higher rebound rate in a large sample of games.


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## seifer0406

I don't see why you guys are comparing Nene to West. Nene plays center. Even if they have similar abilities he's suppose to be paid more because that's just the way it is.


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## rocketeer

Bogg said:


> Yea, but Tyson Chandler, and then Emeka Okafor, are better rebounders than Kenyon Martin. Since this is going to go nowhere, and we basically agree, are you cool with just leaving it at "they're similar in rebounding ability and it can't be definitively proven which is better"?


chandler and okafor are better rebounders than kenyon martin and the numbers agree with that.

if you're saying that because west plays pf, he's a better rebounder at his position than nene is at his position, then that's fair. but nene is a slightly better rebounder overall which is what i was talking about


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## Bogg

seifer0406 said:


> I don't see why you guys are comparing Nene to West. Nene plays center. Even if they have similar abilities he's suppose to be paid more because that's just the way it is.


So does Andrea Bargnani. Nene's a power forward pressed into playing center because he's bulkier than Kenyon Martin.


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## Bogg

Adam said:


> The better rebounder is the one with the higher rebound rate in a large sample of games.


Not entirely. It's very dependent on teammates. Kris Humphries grabbed double-digit rebounds by virtue of playing next to Brook Lopez and Travis Outlaw. Put him next to two players who rebound well, say Carmelo and Dwight, and I guarantee you his rebound rate plummets. He's still just as good of a rebounder as he was alongside Lopez and Outlaw.


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## seifer0406

Bogg said:


> So does Andrea Bargnani. Nene's a power forward pressed into playing center because he's bulkier than Kenyon Martin.


Except Nene can guard centers......

I don't really see your point here. Bargnani does get paid more because he's a 7 footer that can sort of play center. West on the other hand is closer to being a 3 than he is being a 5. I mean you're talking about a guy who's on the small end of being a 4.


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## Bogg

seifer0406 said:


> Except Nene can guard centers......
> 
> I don't really see your point here. Bargnani does get paid more because he's a 7 footer that can sort of play center. West on the other hand is closer to being a 3 than he is being a 5. I mean you're talking about a guy who's on the small end of being a 4.


My point is that West was a better free agent target for Indiana. Regardless of which player they signed, that guy was playing power forward because Hibbert's already there. Paying $10 million a year for two years is much more team-friendly than paying $13 million a year for five years. Also, it bears mentioning that West's only an inch shorter than Nene and is actually taller than the likes of Carlos Boozer and Udonis Haslem, so I don't really agree that he's a combo forward masquerading as a four.


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## R-Star

Floods said:


> So you're paying David West $10 million a year to be a crappy rebounder, play shitty defense, be soft, and spam 18 foot jump shots. Sounds like a plan, you guys will be contenders in no time.


Only one game so far, but he rebounded great tonight and played some solid D. Was banging in the paint for the first half, but did start settling for mid range jumpers in the second.

Very impressed with how the team looked with West in the home opener.


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## Floods

You seriously bumped the thread after one game?


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## R-Star

Floods said:


> You seriously bumped the thread after one game?


And started my post by saying "only one game"? Yea, I did.

You ok with that?


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## ChrisWoj

R-Star said:


> Only one game so far, but he rebounded great tonight and played some solid D. Was banging in the paint for the first half, but did start settling for mid range jumpers in the second.
> 
> Very impressed with how the team looked with West in the home opener.


The number of passes that the Pistons threw into the stands was outrageous. I don't know if tonight's effort by Indiana was entirely their defense, Detroit simply made a LOT of unforced errors. Indy looks like they can be a good defensive squad, but if unforced errors like this are going to be a part of Detroit's system, this wasn't a great gauge of Indy's talent.


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## R-Star

ChrisWoj said:


> The number of passes that the Pistons threw into the stands was outrageous. I don't know if tonight's effort by Indiana was entirely their defense, Detroit simply made a LOT of unforced errors. Indy looks like they can be a good defensive squad, but if unforced errors like this are going to be a part of Detroit's system, this wasn't a great gauge of Indy's talent.


Yea, it was a very sloppy game. Wallace was the only guy who stood out to me from the Pistons. Both from some great D plays, and some hilariously terrible offense.

They looked real rusty out there.


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## Diable

Detroit is going to suck on an epic scale. God, is Stuckey the best player on that team? Ben Gordon? Charlie V? Wow, that can't be pretty.


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## R-Star

Game 2: Not an impressive game in my view. He went 6 for 12, but after only 2 games I've noticed myself cringing when I see him take his mid range jumper that floods mentioned. Much happier with him when hes banging in the paint, although maybe he just isn't that guy.

6 rebounds, but Hibbert, Granger and Hansbrough all grabbed 8-10 so it looks like the front court is rebounding just fine so far.


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## HKF

R-Star said:


> Game 2: Not an impressive game in my view. He went 6 for 12, but after only 2 games I've noticed myself cringing when I see him take his mid range jumper that floods mentioned. Much happier with him when hes banging in the paint, although maybe he just isn't that guy.
> 
> 6 rebounds, but Hibbert, Granger and Hansbrough all grabbed 8-10 so it looks like the front court is rebounding just fine so far.


2 games, minimal training camp, coming off a major injury. I think you're gonna need to be a little more patient here. West is going to get into a groove and his defense has been great. I'm seeing the Pacers win with defense in these two games, I can't wait to see them make some shots.


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## R-Star

HKF said:


> 2 games, minimal training camp, coming off a major injury. I think you're gonna need to be a little more patient here. West is going to get into a groove and his defense has been great. I'm seeing the Pacers win with defense in these two games, I can't wait to see them make some shots.


I'm not passing judgement this early. I just don't feel comfortable with those jump shots. I agree, the D has been great so far, especially the front court. Hansbrough makes some dumb fouls as always, but makes up for it by keeping everyone fired up.

Its easy to see the Pacers are a much better squad with West on it as far as I can see.


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## Luke

I haven't caught a game yet but I'm reasonably interested in seeing how well the Pacers do this year. They're a talented squad and Paul George looks like he could be an all-star wing, if he emerges they might come out as the best team in the east after the Heat and Bulls.


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## Diable

No one ever mentioned how Ray Allen got all upset about DX not going to Boston. Not interested in digging up the link, but it was pretty funny. That really hurt Boston too. They needed the scoring West would provide desperately and if he were healthy he'd probably end up sixth man of the year. Instead he went to a team that is almost certainly going to be better than Boston. I don't think the Celtics ever had a way to make the Hornets do a sign and trade because no one wanted the ghost of Jermaine O'Neal.


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## Bogg

Diable said:


> No one ever mentioned how Ray Allen got all upset about DX not going to Boston. Not interested in digging up the link, but it was pretty funny. That really hurt Boston too. They needed the scoring West would provide desperately and if he were healthy he'd probably end up sixth man of the year. Instead he went to a team that is almost certainly going to be better than Boston. I don't think the Celtics ever had a way to make the Hornets do a sign and trade because no one wanted the ghost of Jermaine O'Neal.


Yea, Ray basically said that he thought West was a done deal and then found out that he(West) opted for the bigger annual salary when the deal went down, and accused West of caring more about money than winning. For what it's worth, Ray _does_ sort of get to take this stand, as he took a little less money this time around in Boston. Then again, that was at the tail end of some monster contracts, while West has made rookie or "middle-class" money his whole career.


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## seifer0406

The decision must have been an easy one for West. Take less money to go to a team on their way down or take more money to join a young team with a nice core? Seems like a no brainer there.


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## Bogg

seifer0406 said:


> The decision must have been an easy one for West. Take less money to go to a team on their way down or take more money to join a young team with a nice core? Seems like a no brainer there.


To be fair, I don't blame him for not going to Boston. It seemed an odd fit for him, even though it would have been good for the C's. I'm realistic, I have low expectations for this season and am ready for the rebuild. If we can turn Rondo in a piece/pieces easier to build around I'll be happy.


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## Diable

As I understand it Boston was never able to get a third team to take O'Neal so that they could arrange a sign and trade, apparently the only way that they could do the deal. No way in hell the Hornets were going to eat Jermaine's contract just to do West a good turn. So Ray was apparently assuming that a deal existed when it really did not.


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## Bogg

Diable said:


> As I understand it Boston was never able to get a third team to take O'Neal so that they could arrange a sign and trade, apparently the only way that they could do the deal. No way in hell the Hornets were going to eat Jermaine's contract just to do West a good turn. So Ray was apparently assuming that a deal existed when it really did not.


I don't know, Boston has multiple first-round picks to trade as well. I never believed it was just O'Neal for West straight-up. There _had_ to be some incentive for NO, additional draft picks for a rebuilding team makes too much sense to not be it.


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## hroz

LOL I think the Pacers are possibly better than the Celts so no reason for Ray to complain honestly. Hibbert and George are the two question marks for the Pacers if they come along then Pacers can make the top 4. 

Though apart from the Bulls and Heat I see no other real contenders


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## Diable

I will bump this I suppose


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## R-Star

Guys really surprised me. The Pacers are a much better team with him in the lineup. Great fit.


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## Floods

Well played R-Star. Well played.


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## RollWithEm

This is the type of thing D West brings to this young team: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...ustles-pacers-off-court-game-2-132352807.html


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## Dre

I bet the Celtics don't wonder why he made his move now


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## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: David West close to deal with Celtics*



Adam said:


> More likely I will be bumping this when your team is the Pacers within two years.


Good call Adam. It sure sucks being the Pacers.

Another gem, by BBB.net's basketball guru.


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## Dre

He might've meant when Lamar Butler switched to the Pacers? That's how I read it at first


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## E.H. Munro

Dre said:


> He might've meant when Lamar Butler switched to the Pacers? That's how I read it at first


No, Lamar was saying that David West was going to make Boston a contender (because West was first set to sign with Boston before taking the larger deal in Indianapolis) and Adam was mocking him for it. And R-Star was rightly calling Adam to task for his boneheadedness in this regard.


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## Diable

Wow...I feel like bumping this thread to give HKF some props on Paul George...and for the hell of it. It's interesting to me how much of an impact it seems that DX has had on that team as a leader though.


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## l0st1

Diable said:


> Wow...I feel like bumping this thread to give HKF some props on Paul George...and for the hell of it. It's interesting to me how much of an impact it seems that DX has had on that team as a leader though.


Thanks to Paulo linking this thread, I was able to do the same. Some of the posts here couldn't of been more accurate on the Pacers/George/West and then some couldn't of been more wrong.

Pretty entertaining read.


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