# Game Thread: Raptors @ Sonics - TSN 10:30 PM



## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

<center>








vs.









*Date: Friday, November 12th
Location: Key Arena
Tip Off: 10:30 PM
Broadcaster: NBALP, TSN (National)
Radio: Fan 590*

*Toronto Raptors Starting Line Up:* 





































*Seattle SuperSonics Starting Line Up:* 





































*Key Match-Up:* 
















</center>


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

It's Gon Be A Nice Friday Game. I Think There's Like 20 3's Or Somethin In That Game..
Luke, Lewis, Allen, VC, Rose, Alston, Peterson < Will Be Hittin 3's From Everywhere lOl

Anyways, Gon Be Interestin Game..

I Say Raptors By 6


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

Our inside game has to take advantage of this game. Alston on Ridnour is a match up in which I like. Rose is tall enough to give Lewis a battle but nobody knows which Lewis is going to come out. The 50 points Lewis or the one were he goes 1/12 on the night. Ray Allen and Vince Carter is going to be a fun match up to watch. Alston must play a good game in order for us to have a chance. Bosh and Loren Woods are going to have to do well. In addition, Marshall is going to spread the defense with his shot but I dont think James is quick enough to guard him that far out.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Bring your umbrella if you want to see this game, cause like Chuck likes to say it will be raining threes. Seattle loves the longball and Toronto gets suckered-into playing that type of game easily.

This is one game where I'd like to see Araujo get a lot of minutes. Seattle has a weak frontcourt and maybe we can exploit that.

Hopefully D Marsh is ready to play.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Well the Raps got whooped by the Kings, and Sonics whooped the Kings today, so that's not a good sign....

2 teams that have overperformed thus far this season. Woods is gonna have a tough time boxing out Big Fartson down low... 

Once again I'll predict the Raps to lose and hope that they win, it's been working pretty well so far!


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Two 4-1 teams. Seattle has won all three of it's home games this season, and by a big margin. Tough game to predict.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Why isn't homie doing the threads? Q8i you've driven him off these boards.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

One name to be wary of Danny Fortson


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> One name to be wary of Danny Fortson



i think you mean danny fartson


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

If you look at the numbers from last night Sea/Sac game, Sacs big guys (Peja, Web, and Bib) all shot terribly. Now how much of that was Seatles D i dont know, but i dont think that game will be a good prediction for tomorrows game against the Raps

Im intersted in seeing Carter vs Allen, after all the trad talk this summer. I wonder if Carter will step it up against a guy who first people thought was as good or maybe even not as good as Carter, and then was Ranked way above Carter. 
Its time to prove somthing.

Raps by 7
Bosh double/double


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## EBP2K2 (Jun 23, 2003)

Raps should take this game, by 8... perhaps 210pts o/u


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## kmart9 (Oct 31, 2004)

> 2 teams that have overperformed thus far this season.


when are the raptors going to be called a good team once and for all. Are you still going to be saying that theyve outperformed even after they win 7 of 10 games. This team is for real after beating houston, detroit,utah and portland and only losing to sacromento by 14 at home when they were hot.

Raptors by 10!


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> Why isn't homie doing the threads? Q8i you've driven him off these boards.


Alright..I Wont Do The Next Ones, And See If He Does Them..
Sorry Bout That-


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## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

Raps by 23

117 - 94

(i no my predictions are odd...but u never know)


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Q8i</b>!
> 
> 
> Alright..I Wont Do The Next Ones, And See If He Does Them..
> Sorry Bout That-


You guys both do good job - you should make an agreement to give Homie the home games and you do the road or something.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

over/under 202.4 pts.

going with over by 7. yes, i'm predicting this is going to be a huge blowout game for both teams scoring close to 210 pts overall.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

This one's going to be fun to watch. VC vs Ray. I watched them play last season in Seattle and Vince stunk it up. Hopefully he's in attack mode after a last night. Bosh should have a big game against Reggie Evans and co. Araujo's going to get more minutes than Swift, of that much I'm pretty sure.


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Can't Wait..I Think Rafer Alston Is Gon Be On Fire, Cuz Luke Is Nothin To Him & He Struggled vs. Utah (For Me, He Did)

Also We Need Woods To Play Like He Did vs Utah Same As Bosh!

Can't Wait..


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

? you think Skip struggled against Utah
Other then the foul trouble, every time he was in the game the Raps took over, he was the only guy going to the basket, dishing it off, and not to mention that huge 3 he hit which pretty much broke the Jazz's back. Without Alston, Bosh and Woods dont have as good of a game
Alston is the man


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## trees (Jun 11, 2003)

this should be a fun game to watch, two teams that have alot of good wing players.

i have a feeling that woods is gonna have another great game. 

i'll take the raps, 97-89.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

i take the RAPS...

109-101


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

raptors take it 103 - 92

Rafer 8 assist
Bosh 19 points
Woods 14 rebounds


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## HotShot (Nov 12, 2004)

Raps take this one with VC finally busting out:

Raps 97
Sonics 95

VC: 30 pts 4 reb 3 ast
CB4: 18pts 9 reb


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

This is going to be my first chance to see the Raptors play in the regular season. I'm hoping it's an extremely fun game to watch.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

This game has turned into what I called an old fashioned shootout. Vince with 2 early fouls doesnt help our cause though


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

dang it Vince with 3 fouls in d second only


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

I haven't been watching the whole game, but the Raps D has been raped on many posessions. Vince is not in the game at all, and Allen's taking him to school.... I expect a much better showing in the 2nd half.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

66-62 Sonics! Raps playing ugly ball but still keeping themselves in it.

Rose's decision making with the ball has been disgusting...


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

I'm pretty disappointed with Vince after 3. He takes some hard contact in the 1st and now he won't go closer than 20ft from the basket before pulling up for shot. Plus his shot isn't dropping. He needs to get to the free throw line! :upset:


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

the team has it close in the 4th, should be a good game to the end now....


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## trees (Jun 11, 2003)

ray allen fouled out...great d from mo pete.

daniels hitting 3's on us now...
raps by 1

83-82 about 3 min to go


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Matt Boner for all rookie team!!


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

85 -82 Raps

1:43 to go


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

matt "bon-bon" bonner has some onions!!!


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## trees (Jun 11, 2003)

87-83 
bonner hits a big shot! give him some onions!


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

ugh....vince with an air ball....one point up with 20 secs left....seattle's ball....

mo pete has been playing great tonight....


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

20 seconds remaining...

seattle ball

raps up by 1



!!!!
!!!!
!!!!
DANIELS  Raptor Killer

88-87 sonics


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

tough loss....vince actually drove to the net this time, just couldnt get the reverse to fall in....

but bonner and mo pete showed some great effort in the 4th quarter....at least we can take that away from this loss....


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

Nice game by the Raptors..

Vince Carter and Jalen Rose's shot selection was just downrite horrendous!


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## trees (Jun 11, 2003)

yup. probably why jalen sat for the whole 4th or at least most of it.

on the bright side bonner, bosh and mo had good games tonite

and 1 nice block by moiso!


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

well Sonics really deserved to win this game more, Allen really got screwed by the Raps, and if he was still playing the game might've never been that close.

Good game for Raps, lots to work on though.


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>macro6</b>!
> Nice game by the Raptors..
> 
> Vince Carter and Jalen Rose's shot selection was just downrite horrendous!


I think Vince did alrite....he shot the ball when he was open....he just couldn't connect...


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Man, How Can We Lose This Game? The Sonics Are So Freaken Easy To Beat Man. There's Only One Player U Need To Gurard, And Whats Wrong With VC? I Swear We Need To Trade That Kid Man. If He Wants To Play, Then He Plays. If He Doesnt Wanna Play, He Doesnt Even Try..

And Rafer Alston? C'mon Man, Whats Up Wit Shootin 3's From Everywhere..

That Was The Wrost Game Ever So Far From This Whole Season. Even David Stern Was Sleepin!


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## trees (Jun 11, 2003)

well the sonics are killing everyone right now, thats 5 straight for them. raps put up a good come back from an early deficit and had 2 chances two put the game away with seconds left, but vince just couldnt get them to go down.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

FREETHROWS killed us...


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Q8i</b>!
> Man, How Can We Lose This Game? The Sonics Are So Freaken Easy To Beat Man. There's Only One Player U Need To Gurard, And Whats Wrong With VC? I Swear We Need To Trade That Kid Man. If He Wants To Play, Then He Plays. If He Doesnt Wanna Play, He Doesnt Even Try..
> 
> And Rafer Alston? C'mon Man, Whats Up Wit Shootin 3's From Everywhere..
> ...


Geez give the Sonics some respect. Easy to beat? So why have they been beaten only once so far this season? There's about 5 guys who can drain 3s on you easily, and they're definately a better rebounding team than the Raps right now. 

Rafer played well, Rose really sucked.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

God why is Vince Carter so stupid?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Should have won this game. 

Vince got hit on the arm on the final play but came out with a lackluster effort yet again. 

oh so close to starting out 5-1. oh well.

Bosh is going to start seeing a lot of double teams. 

Not a pretty game and incredibly frustrating at times but we almost won regardless.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

All due respect to the Sonics, that game was the Raptors' to lose... and guess what, they (Vince) ****ed it up.


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

Sonics are a tough team to beat when they start draining those 3's. They just kept on shooting 3's after 3's after 3's! MY GAWD!

Good by the Sonics though.


I say we lost because a combination of Jalen/VC/team's slow start in the first half, freethrows and Vince Carter decision making - launching those 3's with 20 secs on the shot clock (wth are u thinkin vince?)


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

WTF was up with Jalen chucking up garbage? Did he want to spend the rest of the game on the bench?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Raps didn't adjust to the long rebounds from those 3's and the Sonics took advantage. Vince blew the game when he got that air ball from beyond the arc.


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trees</b>!
> well the sonics are killing everyone right now, thats 5 straight for them.


Yeah - But They Didnt Kill Us, They Only Won By 1 Point And It Was A Bad Idea From Our Coach. We Shudve Gave The Ball To Mo Pete For Him To Drive In...


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

Don't worry about this game people....
we'll start our New Win streak tmr!!


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Yao Mania, U Know What? I Thought We Were Gon Lose By 10 Or Somethin When The 1st Half Ended. But It Showed Me How Sonics Suck-


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

this game hurts... just cuz we couldve have won it! dam im hurtin... VINCE MAN... dam


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> All due respect to the Sonics, that game was the Raptors' to lose... and guess what, they (Vince) ****ed it up.


so its vince fault they lost? get outta here I think u should look at the other acpects of the game before pinning the game on 1 shot


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> so its vince fault they lost? get outta here I think u should look at the other acpects of the game before pinning the game on 1 shot


Vince was definately a help in the final minutes of the game on defense, he played great in that aspect. But taking two ridiculous airball threes when we had the lead in the last minute of the game is just.... ugh! I'm not even talking about the last missed layup... but the Raptors as a team had a great opportunity to ice the game and failed. Unfortunately, it was Vince who airballed the long three pointer when he didn't even have his feet set, so he gets most of the flak.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I wasn't upset with Vince at all today. He got into foul trouble early but he really made his minutes count. He passed well, he got into traffic, and he nearly won us the game. He continues to struggle with his shot, though. Unless he is willing to go inside, teams won't worry about him trying to blow by on the perimeter. They can contest his jumpers all day and not break a sweat. 4 free throw attempts?

Chris Bosh is a beast! Did anybody notice how much playing time he got tonight? 19/9 on 64% shooting. Very strong game by Bosh. He kept trying to force Radmanovic to drive and while it didn't work every time, it made a difference. Radman can't finish for some reason. Leo was saying the opposite, trying to tell Bosh not to challenge the shot. Well, Radman is a good jumpshooter so I think Bosh did what was right. Bosh's freethrow shooting must improve. He is better than this.

Mo Pete was awesome tonight. I thought the last call on Ray was weak, but Mo was very active, tenacious, and he earned the calls he was drawing. Consistent, aggressive defensive effort will make his new contract seem like a drop in the bucket. Mo got credit for three steals but I bet he caused five or six turnovers.

Matt Bonner is a keeper. He does all the little things coaches love, and on top of that he hits shots and doesn't get into major foul trouble. He is the kind of role player that can make a huge difference in a season. Everything he has done this year has been impressive IMHO.

Rafer continues to be stellar. He had over ten assists on just three turnovers, and continued to shoot 40+ percent. It's nice to have a point guard. He also showed his quickness tonight racking-up four steals. I could live without some of those threes he took, but he usually shoots them at a pretty high clip so until his shot percentage gets poor I say give him the freedom. He makes enough good decisions with the ball to overcome some rushed shooting.

Somebody said earlier that Seattle deserved to win this game and I disagree. When you play at home and you build a lead, you need to keep it. With the offensive fouls Fortson and company were making and the forced turnovers (Ridnour had five), that's a sloppy way to maintain a lead. There are no gimmies in this league and nobody deserves to win unless they get the W.

For somebody who has never been a scorer in this league, Reggie Evans was a load tonight. I wonder if he can be a player in this league.


Anyways, we almost stole another one on the road tonight. If we play like this for the rest of the month we'll get a big head of steam for the season.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Thought about the final play - it's a pretty tough shot to make when you've been jacking three's all night.

Thought about the air ball - settled for a 3 with the game on the line, again. Had absolutely ZERO chance of drawing a foul on that play. 

Thought about the Sonics - I really don't like watching Sonic basketball. 3 point shootouts just aren't my cup of tea.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Vince was definately a help in the final minutes of the game on defense, he played great in that aspect. But taking two ridiculous airball threes when we had the lead in the last minute of the game is just.... ugh! I'm not even talking about the last missed layup... but the Raptors as a team had a great opportunity to ice the game and failed. Unfortunately, it was Vince who airballed the long three pointer when he didn't even have his feet set, so he gets most of the flak.


not vince fault if he made that nobody would be saying anything everybody would be on his nuts if anything how about u look at rose play tonight or bosh getting stripped of the ball after the rebound or the questionable blocking fouls the refs were calling


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *kirk_2000!*
> FREETHROWS killed us...


pretty much the difference maker in a 1 point game

Our lack of a even a marginally decent perimeter defender was on display tonight. Having Vince and Jalen trying to guard Ray and Rashard Lewis is a joke, possibly one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league with those two. 

Very entertaining game, we shouldn't have even been in this game and almost won it... Hope T.O can get off to a better start against Portland


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> 
> 
> pretty much the difference maker in a 1 point game
> ...


You're saying that Mo Pete isn't a marginally decent defender? He did a great job tonight off the bench.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Mo Pete, Rafer, and VC all had great defensive games today, especially on the perimeter. The way Ray was shooting, Artest, Kirilenko, Garnett--nobody could've gotten enough hand in his face.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> *not vince fault if he made that nobody would be saying anything everybody would be on his nuts* if anything how about u look at rose play tonight or bosh getting stripped of the ball after the rebound or the questionable blocking fouls the refs were calling


NO, i for one would not be 'all over vc's nuts' if that shot did go in. i hated that he took a 3pointer to ice the game in POR, and i still hated the fact that he again attmpted a somewhat similar play.

Rose too has played like crap, but we're not talking about him right now. we're talking about Vince.

and don't add bosh as a candidate on who to blame for this loss. he actually plays within the team and doesn't force anything. he's always agressiveness on both ends of the court, hussling and bagning despite being very overpowered by fortson and evans.

and don't blame the refs for this loss as well. it's part of the game, and it questionable calls will forever be a part of the game because the refs are only human.

what really drove me over the top was that all the hard work Alston, Mo Pete, Bonner and Bosh did to put the raps in a position to win was all for naught because vince wanted to be a dramatic hero by taking such a blatant, unnecessary shot.

chalk this game up as another game where vince did more to distraught this team rather than help them.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

on a sidenote, my gawd the Sonics are such a great passing team.

if i were a raps defender, i'd be pretty pissed and confused about where the ball was going, or where it would end up.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> NO, i for one would not be 'all over vc's nuts' if that shot did go in. i hated that he took a 3pointer to ice the game in POR, and i still hated the fact that he again attmpted a somewhat similar play.
> ...


lol @ this so bosh gets a pass cuz heplayed well  and why not talk about rose last I checked he wore a raptors uniform matter of fact lets check his stat line 8pts with 2 turnovers that ain't the jalen rose I'am used to seeing how come I don't really see anyone jumping on jalen back? how come I don't see anyone talking about the raptors slow start? ..yes the refs are human but the 2 blocking calls on vince & mo pete in the strech were bogus and u know it and why blame vince? tell me u act like you were in the raptors huddle when coach mitchell drew up the plan......see this is the type of stuff I been saying since day 1 I got here you ppl stress vince way to hard yall want a report when ever he does a push up love him when does something good and wanna kill him when doeset come through ....how about being thankful that were in a game that we no business being in and it shoulden't even been that close


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> so its vince fault they lost? get outta here I think u should look at the other acpects of the game before pinning the game on 1 shot


When Vince had that three in the dying seconds of the game against Portland everyone was saying " Hail Vince" and they talking about how he is such a cluch player. Now, when he air balls that same shot, you call it a team effort and don't throw any of the blame at him?


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

rafer was 1-7 from the 3...
did he take good shots? what happaned?

11 dimes....my man!


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## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

46 minutes is way too much for bosh this early in the season


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

On the other hand this loss gives us motivation to play harder today, Vince said somewhere he takes the blame for the loss and that he is going to make it up today. I was wondering how our team would play today if we had won comfortably yesterday, this should give us something to energize us


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

How long before Mopete replaces Rose in the starting lineup and how long before he is shipped out of the raps


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

the d on the last play was bad. i know its easy for me to say this, but vince had three wide open guys he could have passed it to. he could have layed it off for bosh, hit skip with a pass at the top of the arc (like the pass skip hit vince with when vince hit it but skip got called for charging), or hit mo pete in the corner for a game winner like the one last year in oakland. i especially think we missed out on the mo pete shot since his man, antonio daniels, was just sort of wandering between vince and mo and mo should have been right in vince's path of sight. but then again, vince is the franchise and has to take that shot. this one hurt but i think we'll get the next two.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

rose is done guys. He isnt atheletic enough to play in fast pace game and is pathetic in halfourt set.

The guy is only 31, he is slower than Penny Hardaway...

We should thanks to Chris Bosh for making Seattle scrubs getting career rebounds high left and right. How many a supposed to be NBA level big men rebounds he gave away? Okay, he is a skiny a$$ but how that ---- did that Seattle point guard Luke "Scrub" have any kind of strength to take the balla way from Bosh's hands? Okay, he should never bring the ball down to begin with, but my hate towards Bosh was never wasted. The guy just SUX big time.

Vince Carter didnt just play positional defense, he was intended to shut someone's down lastnite especially in clutch time. Vince if that the way he plays defense for this season, we can then say Vince is one of the better defenders in the game.

The loss should blame to Vince Carter if we treat Vince as the top 3 shooting guard in the game. But if you only treat him as the Ray Allens, the Michael Finleys, the Paul Pierce then the loss should be blamed on Chris Bosh.

2 things on Vince attempting for the reverse layup. That was a great move, and that was actually makable if Carter could take his time.

1) We have to foget the old Vince Carter, because obivously he couldnt just jump when he could few years back with 2-3 guys standing in the paint, then he forced to dribble a bit more to get himself free for a reverse layup.

2) Carter uses some kind of shake, fake we cant tell from TV, because in the past, that would be a jump when he would, but he use his athleticism as a decoy, faked the defense and went for a reverse layup.

If Carter was No.2, he is truly getting smarter in the game.

I *DID* watch the game!


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> rose is done guys. He isnt atheletic enough to play in fast pace game and is pathetic in halfourt set.
> 
> The guy is only 31, he is slower than Penny Hardaway...


where do get this from? were only 6 games in it takes time to learn a new system if hes still playing like this well into next month then you could talk about rose being done


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> When Vince had that three in the dying seconds of the game against Portland everyone was saying " Hail Vince" and they talking about how he is such a cluch player. Now, when he air balls that same shot, you call it a team effort and don't throw any of the blame at him?


read my post right about you then comment


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> where do get this from? were only 6 games in it takes time to learn a new system if hes still playing like this well into next month then you could talk about rose being done


The guy has no legs, the guy isnt a spot up shooter, and teh guy isnt an athelete anymore. He is not allowed to dominate the ball so he will not be able to does his things number wise


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Photo evidence and replay shows there was contact on that play but Vince doesnt get nearly as much calls as the other stars get in the league


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## trees (Jun 11, 2003)

probably cause he doesnt drive nearly as much as some of the other stars.

guys like iverson, kobe, maggette have the officials respect cause they have earned it by continuosly driving the ball down the lane, while vince on the other hand usually settles for the step back fadaway...


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> rose is done guys. He isnt atheletic enough to play in fast pace game and is pathetic in halfourt set.


I hear Glenn Robinson is available...probably about the best we could do for Rose. Big Doggs contract is a year shorter so there would be some benefit.


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> 
> 
> I hear Glenn Robinson is available...probably about the best we could do for Rose. Big Doggs contract is a year shorter so there would be some benefit.


no, no, no, no.....N-O!
he's a trouble maker...and he's a PF and we dont need that...
Jalen for Spree...thats what i want..
but i still think we should give Jalen more time...he's a good player


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Glenn Robinson is a small forward.


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> Glenn Robinson is a SMALL FORWARD.


he's still a trouble maker IMO


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Isn't that what everyone said about Jalen before he came here? I seem to recall the phrase, "locker room cancer"...being mentioned with reference to Rose quite a bit.

Robinson may have a 'tude but he can actually still score in the league and his deal is one year shorter. All good IMO.


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

djmyte, maybe u right but i dont like him as a player in a team..
and another thing...why isnt he playin right now @ philly?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^because they have a better player called Andre Igoudala that brings more to the table than Big Dog does


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> We should thanks to Chris Bosh for making Seattle scrubs getting career rebounds high left and right. How many a supposed to be NBA level big men rebounds he gave away? Okay, he is a skiny a$$ but how that FUXK did that Seattle point guard Luke "Scrub" have any kind of strength to take the balla way from Bosh's hands? Okay, he should never bring the ball down to begin with, but my hate towards Bosh was never wasted. The guy just SUX big time.


HORRIBLE LOGIC.
Danny Fortson is far from a scrub. I am not saying he is gooooood. But, he is one of the better rebounders in the league in the last 5 years. He has averaged over 10rpg three times in his career and those were the only 3 years he got close to starters minutes. His career average for rebounds is 8rpg... in 21mpg. Forston is 6'8" 260lbs.

Reggie Evans is averaging 9.8rpg this year. Definately respectable, DEFINATELY not scrub numbers. Reggie Evans is 6'8" 245lbs.

And then, the point about this so-called Luke "Scrub".... Why do you even bother talking? One rebound in a players career isn't a big thing. How do you know on this one particular play Mr. Bosh didn't have some sweat on his hands, "Scrub" grabs for the ball and it comes free. Bosh is no tank, but he DEFINATELY doesn't suck.



> Vince Carter didnt just play positional defense, he was intended to shut someone's down lastnite especially in clutch time. Vince if that the way he plays defense for this season, we can then say Vince is one of the better defenders in the game.
> 
> I *DID* watch the game!


Vince Carter is far from one of the games better defenders. His effort this year on defence in the first 1/16th of the year has been improved. But, that doesn't make him one of the better defenders in the league.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Some of you guys are just haters. 

Why when the Raptors Win is thanks to the "team" but when the Raptors lose is Vince fault...

if the raptors win or lose we should blame the all the team not just one or two players.

This was an awful lost. and without Donny that really hurts oir depth


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH</b>!
> 
> 
> no, no, no, no.....N-O!
> ...


He's a pure SF and if we can trade Rose for Him i'll doit in a second cuz i believe he has an expiring contract.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i love Vince when the raps win? :laugh:

if anything, i've crticized Vince throughout this whole season thus far and have attributed the wins to other players besides him.

heck, even that win against POR i gave props to the bench moreso than Vince. Vince just got made a lucky shot.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> Some of you guys are just haters.
> 
> Why when the Raptors Win is thanks to the "team" but when the Raptors lose is Vince fault...
> ...


100% agree what the hell some people are just stupid


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> He's a pure SF and if we can trade Rose for Him i'll doit in a second cuz i believe he has an expiring contract.


i duuno why i always thought he's a PF...my bad, wow thats change a lot...hehe j/k

i still think raps should keep Jalen, but still i didnt c the games this yr so my opinion probably doesnt matter...


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

, i'm just a hater now? after all my time having defended vince in the past i'm now just a hater 

:laugh:

ok, if Vince continues to jack up quick, low percentage shots instead of rather playing team ball, then i will continue to _hate_ on Vince.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> i love Vince when the raps win? :laugh:
> 
> if anything, i've crticized Vince throughout this whole season thus far and have attributed the wins to other players besides him.
> ...


I'm with you in the first points we have won most of our games thanks to the bench but a lucky shot :uhoh:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

oh, and if you want more proof that Vince is actually hurting the team more than helping, check this out his stats so far this seasons:


> FGs: 40%
> 
> 3 Pointers: 32%
> 
> Free Throws: 68%


now tell me, if Vince continues to be a primary shooter, do these percentage help out his case? 

if Vince wants to help his team more and become more efficient, he should finish hard to the bucket, not take questionable, long range shots that being difficult to get in.


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## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

SpeakerBoxx not to be disrespectful, But have you even seen a game this year?

I don't know how many games you'd get down there, and I just wonder if you have an objective opinion



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> I'm with you in the first points we have won most of our games thanks to the bench but a lucky shot :uhoh:


Did you see the play? 

A fade away 3-point shot while being double teamed....is a lucky shot. Its lucky for vince and it would be lucky for Jordan.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Vince didnt have an excellent game but he definitely wasnt the reason why we lost, when Vince was out the first half cause of foul problems we went down by 14. The main culprit and our highest paid player Jalen isnt even getting any heat, when clearly Mitchell was pissed with the way he was playing and benched him most of the fourth. Lets see how the team will regroup tonight against the blazers


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

talking about that shouldnt someone start up the Portland VS. Raps thread


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> Some of you guys are just haters.
> 
> Why when the Raptors Win is thanks to the "team" but when the Raptors lose is Vince fault...


exactly


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DAllatt</b>!
> SpeakerBoxx not to be disrespectful, But have you even seen a game this year?
> 
> I don't know how many games you'd get down there, and I just wonder if you have an objective opinion
> ...


Hey give him a break, he's in love with Vince. VC can do no wrong right? Even if SpeakerBoxx doesn't see a minute of the Raptors this year, he still is aloud to lash out at anyone who critisizes his saviour, VC.

By the way Speakerboxx is talking about Vince, I don't think he's seen him play since he won the Dunk Competition.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Vince is not the reason we lost the game.

But he did nothing right offensively in the last 2 minutes and he hurt our chances of winning.

He took a 3 pt shot with 20 seconds on the clock and no rebounders in place with the Raps having a 3 point lead and under 2 minutes to play. Stupid.

Then after Bonner gives us a 5 point lead with just over a minute to play VC fails to take it hard to the hoop again or get himself into a decent shooting position and ends up taking a fadeaway 3 pointer from 2-3 feet behind the arc. Stupid.

And look at the last 2 plays of the game. Antonio Daniels (not exactly a top 20 talent) somehow manages to get a beautiful high percentage look in the lane (with the potential for a foul call as well) and puts his team ahead. 

Vince Carter has to run a complete circle around the half court in order to beat a bigger, slower PF off the dribble, then decides to avoid all contact to throw up a WEAK final shot attempt. The sonics bigs were in the restricted area and VC should have gone over and through them to try and finish or draw a call.

Three opportunities for 'Mr. Clutch' to do the right thing and lead us to a win. Three times he fails to do the right thing.

Another 17 shots to get 15 points. Inefficient. Now under 40%FG for the year and taking more 3's than FT's. Lower assist and rebound numbers than last year.

And for the sixth straight game VC gets outplayed by the other teams best player on the night.

Ray puts up 29 points on 19 shots with 7 assists and 4 boards.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I forgot to say that VC played very hard defensively in the second half. Helped the Raps make our run with his play on that end.

Unlike the first half when on the first two plays of the game he failed to chase Ray around a screen and then got backdoored for a layup.

And don't ask me what he was doing on that second foul in the first 2 minutes. The ref was watching him and waiting for him to stop with the silly contact after the play. Gave him every chance to avoid the call. It was like he wanted to get the second foul.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Is anyone even going to say anything about Rose who was benched in the 4th, after all he does play on this team doesnt he. All I hear is Vince this Vince that, even Vince came out and said the loss should be attributed to him, no one talks about leadership then. Rose our so called vocal leader meanwhile after his poor perfomance last time needs some explanation and hopefully he plays much better tonite


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## trees (Jun 11, 2003)

on a side note, i think sam mitchell is doing a great job. i like how he's puting in the players that are playing well and sitting those that aren't, even if they are the stars.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

that was a disappointing game. i don't know who deserves the "blame", per se, but i definitely feel that the officials should assume at least _part_ of it.

in fact, the second foul called on carter (roughly two minutes in), which ultimately sat him for the duration of the first quarter and most of the first half, was one of the most unfortunate calls i've seen this season. in hindsight, the referees effectively awarded the game to the sonics at that point, and i'm sure they're probably thinking the same thing today. 

i don't usually complain about referees but this performance was the exception- for both teams. i think the raptors had to endure more since woods and carter committed two fouls each by the three minute mark, but the sonics certainly didn't have it much easier. the flow in the game was dismal- at least until the fourth quarter- and most of the time/energy was spent trying to manage playing time, etc. as a result, it didn't breed high quality basketball.

carter's second foul, for those who don't remember, was committed on the offensive glass after he'd missed a layup, lost his balance and got tied up with reggie evans. it was indeed a "foul" , but it was of the brand that is normally overlooked by officials (when i say "normally", i mean "virtually always"). evans had the ball comfortably, carter couldn't get out of the way, and if the whistle hadn't been blown the sonics would've just brought the ball upcourt. it wouldn't have changed a thing. 

i think a more seasoned professional would've understood all the factors at that juncture (including carter's first foul; including the possibility that "real fouls" were inevitably going to come- such as woods' _over the backs_- and making such a grey call early would almost cripple the game from that point forward), would've considered _everything_ and would've made his decision accordingly. we didn't get that.

i think the rhythm of the entire game had been affected by that one call, and the sonics and raptors almost couldn't play each _other_ anymore since they were too busy worrying about issues that had less to do with the game and far more to do with short-sighted officials who probably weren't prepared for their nightly assignments.

it was one of those games in which you're constantly asking yourself the same question- but in this case it was, "how many fouls does XX YY have?" in my opinion that's not sport. i'm a firm believer in the idea that it is the responsibility of the officials to _control_ the game, and not make relatively arbitrary calls to *have* the game. i feel somewhat sorry for sam and nate today; they probably didn't enjoy that game very much at all.

peace


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DAllatt</b>!
> SpeakerBoxx not to be disrespectful, But have you even seen a game this year?
> 
> I don't know how many games you'd get down there, and I just wonder if you have an objective opinion
> ...


Dont worry about me i can see enough games to see how are the Raptors playing. Canada is not that far of Mexico.

And yep i see the shot sometimes you can have double or triple team and made a shot and sometimes you can be alone with a clear shot and missed all depends of the quality of the player. and looks like Vince made enough space to make that shot


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

> carter's second foul, for those who don't remember, was committed on the offensive glass after he'd missed a layup, lost his balance and got tied up with reggie evans. it was indeed a "foul" , but it was of the brand that is normally overlooked by officials (when i say "normally", i mean "virtually always")


I'm sorry, but that is just BS and the worst kind of excuse making.

VC was off balance for a split second, but then he obviously kept up the contact and intentionally kept backing into the man. The Ref gave him a second to stop the behaviour but it became so obvious that he was shamed into having to make the call. I swear VC wanted the foul called.

And lets not forget that Ray Allen FOULED OUT in this game. How often does that happen? Talk about trying to hand a game to a team. 29 points on 19 shots plus 7 assists and just torching the Raps every way possible. The refs boot him with 5 minutes to play.


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