# The Knicks Pick Up Malik Rose & Maurice Taylor : 3 Team Deal



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

New York Knicks-San Antonio Spurs-Houston Rockets: The Knicks are in the process of adding more big salaries to their roster.

Two league sources told ESPN Insider Chad Ford that New York has traded Nazr Mohammed and Jamison Brewer to the Spurs for Malik Rose and a first-round pick.

Maurice Taylor
Taylor

Malik Rose
Rose

The Knicks also traded Vin Baker and Moochie Norris to the Rockets for Maurice Taylor and a first-round pick, Ford reports.

Once again, team president Isiah Thomas is willing to take back huge contracts to get more talent. In the Spurs deal, the Knicks are sending back $5.5 million in future salaries for the remaining four years, $27.3 million of Rose's contract.

In the Rockets deal, Thomas is sending back $8 million in future salaries and getting back $18 million in return. In total, the Knicks, who have the largest payroll in the league, will add an extra $32 million in future salaries.

For the Rockets, this trade was a salary dump and an effort to shore up a thin point-guard crop.

For the Spurs, not only did the clear $21 million in long term salary, they got another legit center in Mohammed -- something the team felt the desperately needed.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

LOL @ Isaiah


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

superdave said:


> LOL @ Isaiah



:laugh: 

Sweet mother of all that is holy...! Isaiah is the WORST front office guy in any sport ever...


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

Isiah Thomas is cementing his reputation as the worst GM in the history of the NBA. He effectively paid $32 million for two late first round picks.

And it is just not fair for San Antonio to get Nazr Mohammed in a salary dump. That Spurs front office is incredible.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

How the heck did SA turn Malik Rose into Nazr Mohammed?!

Best team in the NBA just got BETTER


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I think The day Zeke will leave his Job , NY would have 15 Max/Close to max Guys on their roster.

He got 2 low 1st rounders...


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

superdave said:


> How the heck did SA turn Malik Rose into Nazr Mohammed?!
> 
> Best team in the NBA just got BETTER


Yeah, that's what I was just gonna write...the Spurs "give up" Malik Rose and maybe the last pick in the first round for Nazr Mohammed (and Brewer)? Nuts. The league should almost have denied the trade...the article tries to spin it as "more money but more talent for the Knicks" but can anyone honestly say that they'd rather have Malik over Nazr on talent alone? How about after you add in Rose's obscene contract? If there's a silver lining, I'm sure Rose will be happy at first to hear that he'll be getting burn in the Big Apple...and Nazr must be gleefully doing jumping jacks right now knowing better than that. 

As for Houston... this trade is a little more even because Taylor actually does have SOME talent and Moochie Norris is an old fan favorite in Houston. Baker is a thud...but Houston's pick will likely be very low. This one is a win for Houston (to get rid of Taylor's long term $) but not by much.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Who will play center for NY? Nazr and Baker did didn't they? I don't think NY got any better with this trade.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

That's probably the worst trade ever.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

truebluefan said:


> Who will play center for NY? Nazr and Baker did didn't they? I don't think NY got any better with this trade.


KT I guess...

SA has great management. Good move.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> That's probably the worst trade ever.


I am with you on that statement.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I thought Michael Sweetney was the Knicks' power forward of the future? ? ?  

I don't know what's funnier -- that it was so predictable that Isiah's tenure as GM would be a disaster, or that the folks who own the Knicks seem to have no idea that it would be, is, and will be a disaster.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

How is this a three team trade? Isn't it just two different trades involving the Knicks? Am I missing something? 

The SA/NYK trade just might be techincally the worst trade of all time...I agree. I'm just not sure it's important enough to overshadow the Rose/Artest/Miller trade. You know someone had to bring it up today...


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I thought Michael Sweetney was the Knicks' power forward of the future? ? ?
> 
> I don't know what's funnier -- that it was so predictable that Isiah's tenure as GM would be a disaster, or that the folks who own the Knicks seem to have no idea that it would be, is, and will be a disaster.


When I heard Nazr was traded... my first thought was that Sweets would finally get major minutes and time to develop. Then I hear NY gets both Mo Taylor (signed 2.5 more seasons) and Malik f'n Rose (signed 3.5 more seasons) with major money deals and.... it just leaves me totally dumbfounded.

LOL @ Isaiah

Damn


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

The knicks GM is a PG who loves the big men.


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## YearofDaBulls (Oct 20, 2004)

Isiah Thomas might be the worst GM after all. The guy has no clue what hes doing. The Knicks cap is a disaster and hes making it worse. I feel bad for the Knicks fans.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

As a die-hard Knicks hater, this makes my day. 

The Raptors became contenders as soon as Zeke left. The Pacers became a Finals team as soon as Isiah left. Isiah bankrupted the CBA.

What did Knick fans expect?


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Knicks board is saying that the SA trade sends over Phoenix's first rounder this year. How does that happen?

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=143763


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

Come on, Knicks got 2 first round picks...Granted they will be at the bottom of the 1st round and will get guaranteed deals. 

Just wait until next season when Thomas can further his destruction of the Knicks by trading away 2 expiring contracts for some over-the-hill, wannabe all-star.

Quick question: do the knicks have a C on their roster? Looks like they have about 5 PFs.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Some of you sound like IT traded for Jalen Rose ;-)


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> Some of you sound like IT traded for Jalen Rose ;-)


I think that will come next year.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

remlover said:


> Come on, Knicks got 2 first round picks...Granted they will be at the bottom of the 1st round and will get guaranteed deals.
> 
> Just wait until next season when Thomas can further his destruction of the Knicks by trading away 2 expiring contracts for some over-the-hill, wannabe all-star.
> 
> Quick question: do the knicks have a C on their roster? Looks like they have about 5 PFs.


They have Bruno Sundov, plus for some strange reason JYD is listed as a F/C on the Knicks' roster.

Maybe Isiah sees Phoenix and Seattle playing without a real center most of the time, and how Miami took us to OT with no Shaq, and Eddy's horrible +/- and decided he doesn't need a center?

This is Isiah we are talking about...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

sp00k said:


> Knicks board is saying that the SA trade sends over Phoenix's first rounder this year. How does that happen?
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=143763


Barbosa trade.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

I guess the Knicks got 3 first rounders out of this. Very late first rounders, but first rounders nonetheless. Knicks fans seem to be pretty upbeat about these deals. Some are even calling them [shudder] <i>good</i> deals.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

remlover said:


> I think that will come next year.


Rose sucks, obviously.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2005022217

Toronto 100, New Jersey 82

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (AP) -- The last thing Vince Carter needed to see in his first game against his former team was a well-rested Jalen Rose.

Carter struggled in his first game against the team that traded him to New Jersey earlier this season, missing 17 of 25 shots while being outplayed by Rose in the Toronto Raptors' 100-82 victory over the Nets on Tuesday night.

Rose shot 12-for-15, scored 30 points and <B>did a fine defensive job on Carter</B>, who seemed to be pressing in a game he acknowledged meant a lot to him. Rose led the Raptors on a 14-4 run early in the fourth quarter, and New Jersey never recovered.

``He probably was a little tired from All-Star weekend. While he was running up and down the court throwing it off the backboard, I was laying on the beach drinking a fruity drink with an umbrella,'' Rose said. ``So I probably gave myself an unfair advantage on that one.'' 

<FONT COLOR=#0000ff>A side note... Rose was shooting FTs and Carter almost gave him the high 5, forgetting they weren't teammates anymore.</FONT>


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

OMG. How is Dolan letting these deals go through? Isiah should be fired RIGHT NOW. LMAO


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Good one, Isiah

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Scratch the 3 first rounders. The Houston trade was strictly for Mo.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1998814



> New York Knicks-San Antonio Spurs-Houston Rockets: The Knicks agreed to two deals before Thursday's NBA trading deadline to acquire Malik Rose and two No. 1 picks from the Spurs and forward Maurice Taylor from the Rockets.
> 
> Both deals were awaiting league approval one hour after the NBA's 3 p.m. EST trade deadline and had not been finalized.
> 
> ...


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

90 million invested in power forwards and the names are TimThomas, Maurice Taylor, Malik Rose and JYD. What was wrong with low priced and potentially good Michael Sweetney? 

I hope the Knicks keep Isiash for a long long time.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

sp00k said:


> The Knicks would have their own No. 1 and the Suns' first-round pick this June, and the 2006 pick from the Spurs would put the Knicks back into the first-round of that draft. Thomas traded the Knicks' own 2006 first-round pick to the Suns as part of the Stephon Marbury deal. /QUOTE]
> 
> For the Knicks sake, they have restrictions on that 2006 pick that run all the way through 2010 or 2011. Something like the Knicks only have to give the pick away if it's like 23rd, 24th or higher. The NY Post had info on this, and I've found it a few times on the search feature here, but it won't find it now.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

sp00k said:


> Scratch the 3 first rounders. The Houston trade was strictly for Mo.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1998814


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Seriously. On top of what I just emoticoned, let me just add:

:jawdrop: 

:rotf: 

and

:rofl: 

I mean holy freaking ****. He just decided, "Boy, we really have to have Mo Taylor and his $9.5M a year contract?"

There are questionable trades, there are bad trades and then there's this.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

LOL!

Gets better. Knicks <i>give up</> a second rounder!

http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/taylor_050224.html



> New York Knickerbockers President of Basketball Operations Isiah Thomas announced today that forward Maurice Taylor has been acquired from the Houston Rockets in exchange for guard Moochie Norris, forward Vin Baker and New York’s 2006 second-round draft pick.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> That's probably the worst trade ever.


 :greatjob: 

He's hugely over-reacting to Chris Webber being in the conference.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Seriously. On top of what I just emoticoned, let me just add:
> 
> ...


Oh it gets better. 

Not only did the Knicks not get a pick in this trade, they _gave up_ a 2006 2nd round pick. 


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

http://www.nba.com/knicks/


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Rose, Thomas, Taylor, Sweetney, Junk Yard Dog.

Isiah sure likes the over priced, undersized big men.

I going to call this the 2nd worst trade I can remember, #1 being the Celts getting Lefrentz (actually I changed my mind this is worse)

Worst GM ever.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

sp00k said:


> I guess the Knicks got 3 first rounders out of this. Very late first rounders, but first rounders nonetheless. Knicks fans seem to be pretty upbeat about these deals. Some are even calling them [shudder] <i>good</i> deals.


Yes, I checked their forum too. Unbelievable. I guess NY fans and IY are perfect fit after all. If IT was Bulls GM, we would scream for his head.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Look how much difference a year makes. Last year at this time he was praised for "getting things done." Well he is still getting things done. Knicks keep getting in deeper and deeper.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> Look how much difference a year makes. Last year at this time he was praised for "getting things done." Well he is still getting things done. Knicks keep getting in deeper and deeper.


I wonder how this makes Jamal feel? Last summer, he thought Isiah was a god who couldn't go on without Jamal on the Knicks, now he sees that Isiah will make any stupid trade to bring in more salary just for the hell of it.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

Wow, what a moron Zeke is. I really feel bad for the guy who has to clean up that mess once NY ownership figures things out and cans his dumb arse.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> Look how much difference a year makes. Last year at this time he was praised for "getting things done." Well he is still getting things done. Knicks keep getting in deeper and deeper.



Bear Bryant (or one of those old coaches) used to say, "Never confuse activity with accomplishment." Seems to fit Zeke's term in NY.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

bullsville said:


> I wonder how this makes Jamal feel? Last summer, he thought Isiah was a god who couldn't go on without Jamal on the Knicks, now he sees that Isiah will make any stupid trade to bring in more salary just for the hell of it.



especially since, as he put it, "there is no agenda here (ny)"...

well there is jamal, it's apparently called "sucking".

:laugh:


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Steve Kerr and Marv Albert talking about the Knick trades now on TNT. Neither of them are too high on the lastest moves by IT.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> especially since, as he put it, "there is no agenda here (ny)"...
> 
> well there is jamal, it's apparently called "sucking".


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Stop it, dammit, I've been having back spasms all day and it really hurts to laugh, you a-hole!! :wink:


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

ChiBulls2315 said:


> OMG. How is Dolan letting these deals go through? Isiah should be fired RIGHT NOW. LMAO


You read my mind. In professional sports I have never seen any team burn money the way the Knicks do. I say "burn" because unlike other high roller owners NY gets absolutely no bang for its buck. Are they contenders? No. Will they be in the near future? Very doubtful. Does Thomas even have a plan?


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

You almost get the feeling that Isiah is such a glory hound that he couldn't stand the idea of the Knicks not being in the news on trade deadline day, so he just pulled these atrocities of trades out of his posterior to make sure the media would talk about him.

(but there's no agenda in this post) :laugh:


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

lgtwins said:


> Yes, I checked their forum too. Unbelievable. I guess NY fans and IY are perfect fit after all. If IT was Bulls GM, we would scream for his head.


Wasn't there a time that more than a few posters were openly wishing Thomas had been the Bulls gm insead of Paxson?


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Kismet said:


> Wasn't there a time that more than a few posters were openly wishing Thomas had been the Bulls gm insead of Paxson?


:yes:

:laugh:

:no:


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

ViciousFlogging said:


> :yes:
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> :no:


Thomas...the Bulls GM???

















*...and finally...*
















*DOLAN & THOMAS*



Meanwhile, there's Phil Jackson:








...riding off into the sunset along with any hopes Knicks fans might have had about him becoming their next head coach.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

The word on Detroit radio is that Isiah has serious Piston/Dumars envy and wants to prove that he can duplicate Joe's record. Don't know how this fits, but they say he thinks this a step toward building a better version of what the Pistons won with last year.

He's been bitter for years that the Pistons didn't hand him the keys to the kingdom when he retired and has been trying to prove it was a mistake ever since.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

GB said:


> The word on Detroit radio is that Isiah has serious Piston/Dumars envy and wants to prove that he can duplicate Joe's record. Don't know how this fits, but they say he thinks this a step toward building a better version of what the Pistons won with last year.
> 
> He's been bitter for years that the Pistons didn't hand him the keys to the kingdom when he retired and has been trying to prove it was a mistake ever since.


Almost sounds like a certain Chicago basketball icon who played in the same era as Isiah....


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

What is Isaih Thomas doing?

I always thought he was bad, but now I just think he doesn't even deserve to be in the NBA in any way, shape, or form.

I'm beginning to question his methods and strategies for trade scenarios...

Isiah: How did it go?

Scout: Sir, I watched Mickeal Pietrus last night and I really think he's special, didn't you say the Warriors were willing to offer-

Front Office Employee: Mr. Thomas, I just got finished playing NBA Live and I noticed that Spurs forward Malik Rose's rating is 63, while Nazr Mohammed's is just 59.

Isiah: That's a four point increase. Interesting...Make the call.

Front Office Employee: Yes sir.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

Kismet said:


> Meanwhile, there's Phil Jackson:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what I was thinking.

Man, the Spurs just got tougher, and the Knicks just got worse.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

from my view it was a talent increase for the knicks if only slightly (rose and taylor are a heck of a lot more useful than vin has been moochie and brewer, nazr was a good player though) they got 2 picks in the 1st round which will be useful , but in the end 2 bad deals for the time being .

for one they have no backup pg , if houston was healthy then that guy is JC , but he isn't so on that basis you cant trade both moochie and brewer on the same day. houston's kneesd are a mess he may not be back this year and with deals like this i doubt he comes back unless something drastic happens.

also and far more importantly they have no center on the roster with nazr gone just guys who can plug themselves in for spot minutes , to me they just gave away the season , not that it was all that saveable at this point , but to do that is wrong.

on the positive for them it looks like IT has set himself up a lil' better for dealing his big contracts next season , with 2 1st rounders in the next draft he may get rid of one early , most of these ending deal trades that are IT's hope tend to follow the formula of a big ending deal + young player of questionable long term talent or older player with smaller deal + 1st rounder. the knicks getting extra 1st rounders should help that along.

but thats merely a highly probable hypothetical which was there plan all along even if they accomplish their goals it will be hard to tell how much killing their team for the time being really helped them.

I do find it kind of funny but most fans on this forum killed thomas for making a deal that paxson is kind being lauded for now , a deal for the future that really for the time being is a detriment...I saw a lot of people defending pax for his dealing for that famous 6th man "cap space" in 2006


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Pay Ton said:


> What is Isaih Thomas doing?
> 
> I always thought he was bad, but now I just think he doesn't even deserve to be in the NBA in any way, shape, or form.
> 
> ...


Oh my God, I'm LMFAO!!! :laugh:


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

happygrinch said:


> from my view it was a talent increase for the knicks if only slightly (rose and taylor are a heck of a lot more useful than vin has been moochie and brewer, nazr was a good player though) they got 2 picks in the 1st round which will be useful , but in the end 2 bad deals for the time being .
> 
> for one they have no backup pg , if houston was healthy then that guy is JC , but he isn't so on that basis you cant trade both moochie and brewer on the same day. houston's kneesd are a mess he may not be back this year and with deals like this i doubt he comes back unless something drastic happens.
> 
> ...


Happygrinch, are you defending Isiah Thomas? Look at the salary situation that he set up for his team's future:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

Compare that to the Bulls:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

I see absolutely no comparison. When Pax traded Rose away, he subtracted 1 year of max salary committed by inheriting AD. Isiah Thomas actually ADDED years of large salaries committed...and all he got in return were a couple of *late* 1st round draft picks. You can feel how you want...let's just be glad the Knicks are our rivals.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I just spent a few minutes looking at posts on the New York Times's Knicks forum (which is a very interesting, albeit frustrating due to the non-threadedness, occasional read), and I'd say people are 5 or 6 to 1 in favor of the deals.

I think New Yorkers just don't want to understand or accept the salary cap, or see how being so mind-boggingly over the cap can hamstring a club. The financial implications of these deals don't seem to register.

However, as I type this Tim and Kurt Thomas are a combined 19-24 from the floor and the Knicks are routing the Sixers, which is a good thing. Teams like the Knicks are our friend.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I just spent a few minutes looking at posts on the New York Times's Knicks forum (which is a very interesting, albeit frustrating due to the non-threadedness, occasional read), and I'd say people are 5 or 6 to 1 in favor of the deals.
> 
> I think New Yorkers just don't want to understand or accept the salary cap, or see how being so mind-boggingly over the cap can hamstring a club. The financial implications of these deals don't seem to register.
> 
> However, as I type this Tim and Kurt Thomas are a combined 19-24 from the floor and the Knicks are routing the Sixers, which is a good thing. Teams like the Knicks are our friend.


I watched the game. I am glad the knicks won. (Thought I would never say that) They are a jump shooting team. You know the old saying about that. Tonight they couldn't miss.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Just for those too lazy to click on the link, let's spell this out...

Next year IT has laced the Knicks with 109.6 million dollars for these players...

Allan Houston(19.1)
Stephon Marbury(16.4)
Anfernee Hardaway(15.75)
Tim Thomas(14)
Maurice Taylor(9.1)
Shandon Anderson(7.9)
Kurt Thomas(6.6)
Jamal Crawford(6.5)
Malik Rose(6)
Mike Sweetney(2.1)
Trevor Ariza(????)

In 06-07 it goes down to 84 when Penny and TT come off the books and then finally in 07-08 Houston, Taylor, and Shandon Anderson come off.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*The word on Chicago radio is that MJ has serious Bulls/Paxson envy and wants to prove that he can duplicate Paxson's record.* 

*He's been bitter for years that the Bulls didn't hand him the keys to the kingdom when he retired and has been trying to prove it was a mistake ever since.*

Sorry to plagarize you, GB, at least I changed a few words. :biggrin:


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

T.Shock said:


> Just for those too lazy to click on the link, let's spell this out...
> 
> Next year IT has laced the Knicks with 109.6 million dollars for these players...
> 
> ...


If I added in my head correctly, the Knicks are paying a combined total of $65 million next year...to their GUARDS ALONE. :whofarted


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Happygrinch, are you defending Isiah Thomas? Look at the salary situation that he set up for his team's future:
> 
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
> 
> ...


i know what the salaries are , the salaries only matter for 2 reasons, ability to get deals done and the company bottom line , and as far as cablevision goes as far as profitability I couldn't care less. 

and to make deals they basically set a little more fringe around their big ending deals for dealing next year.

but if you really read my post you would see i said i am not in favor of those kind of deals, not when paxson makes them and not when thomas makes them deals like this to me are bad ones until proven otherwise theyy are made for reasons other than what goes on the court(both deals are deals made with cap deals in mind , IT made his deal attempting to cash in on a couple of cap dumps while pax wants to dump salary to spend it on something better, either way it isn't trying to win now and those type of deals i am opposed to.

to put it simply pax's deal was about posturing for the summer of 2006, (aquiring enough space to get a big time player then) thomas' deal of today are about the draft next year til the deadline by which time he should have rid himself of 2006 ending deals in which he probably hopes to get 2 big time players in separate deals. 

Pax got lucky his team is actually winning everyone knows he didn't expect it . most people expected their record to be about where the knicks are.

IT is the opposite he expected to be about where the bulls are. 

The teams respective records changed nothing as far as their plans, the bulls want their big deals to end and the knicks want to cash in on theirs.

Today i saw baron davis traded for a somewhat washed up dale davis and a good backup in speedy claxton , I also saw chris webber traded for 3 journeymen power forwards, and antione walker traded for a player who they will likely buy out 2 scrubs and a 1st rounder.

these plans are the polar opposite of each other but my handle on both are the same I understand why it was done , i just dont like it.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

B.s.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Dan Rosenbaum said:


> Isiah Thomas is cementing his reputation as the worst GM in the history of the NBA. He effectively paid $32 million for two late first round picks.
> 
> And it is just not fair for San Antonio to get Nazr Mohammed in a salary dump. That Spurs front office is incredible.


 I think it's easy to say the Spurs got a great deal, but considering their stellar scouting staff it must have been very tough to part with 2 1st rounders, no matter how late they come.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

As much as I love to see the Knicks like this, I found myself feeling sorry for Isiah tonight as I saw him interviewed during the game. 

I'm not even sure why exactly that was, but I just did. Maybe it was because he truly believes these are great moves, maybe it was because everyone thinks he's an idiot, maybe it was that combined with that soft little voice he has trying to defend all this. A little of all of them I suppose.

Here he is sitting there trying to explain the benefits of his deals when there isn't another soul* defending them. The commentators Marv Albert and even Steve Kerr basically ripped him for the trades and Mr. Goofy Craig Sager is pressing him on all the salary talk. And here's Isiah talking about how they did such a great job getting the players and "first round draft picks" and pretty much saying the salaries don't matter because their cap was a mess before he came there. "It is what it is" he says. 

He's so happy to receive these draft picks and Malik Rose. He gave up the more valuable player, took on the 20 million dollars left on Rose's deal and for what? These aren't just late first round picks. These are going to be like the DEAD LAST pick in the 1st round. The 2005 pick is the Suns and the 2006 pick is the Spurs. How much are those worth to add as a sweetner to a trade when the draft rolls around? Even the stud GMs can't pick nice players there most of the time. Some GMs would just prefer to pick 35th or so because you have to give those guys picked 29th and 30th guaranteed contracts. To his credit, he picked Ariza 43rd in his only draft, who is looking ok. But Isiah is going to have to hit a home run on those picks to make this trade worth it at all. 

I still just can not believe that Houston trade though. So while he knew he had Kurt Thomas, Michael Sweetney, Malik Rose, and Jerome Williams in the bag at PF, he literally took on *10+ million dollars* of Mo Taylor. Does that improve the Knicks overall talent? Um, I guess technically yes. But I mean there's only so many minutes to go around and I know some of those guys will play C at times, but you still have the players to fill in those 96 minutes. He's better off just signing any old free agent if he needed depth if someone got hurt. There wasn't even a pick on this one. And he gave up his own 2006 2nd round as well. 

Man oh man oh man. :no: I'm glad I'm not a fan of that team.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Someone ought to bump the "season is a wash" thread over in the Knicks forum.

While they're at it, they can bump the "franchise is a wash" thread, too.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Why? They have such a great future? I just don't get it? LOL


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

bullsville said:


> *The word on Chicago radio is that MJ has serious Bulls/Paxson envy and wants to prove that he can duplicate Paxson's record.*
> 
> *He's been bitter for years that the Bulls didn't hand him the keys to the kingdom when he retired and has been trying to prove it was a mistake ever since.*
> 
> Sorry to plagarize you, GB, at least I changed a few words. :biggrin:


woah... what is this?


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

ChiBulls2315 said:


> Here he is sitting there trying to explain the benefits of his deals <b>when there isn't another sole defending them.</b> The commentators Marv Albert and even Steve Kerr basically ripped him for the trades and Mr. Goofy Craig Sager is pressing him on all the salary talk. And here's Isiah talking about how they did such a great job getting the players and "first round draft picks" and pretty much saying the salaries don't matter because their cap was a mess before he came there. "It is what it is" he says.


The bold part isn't true. At least Happygrinch is defending IT. Everything else you siad, ChiBulls, I agree with 100%.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

lgtwins said:


> The bold part isn't true. At least Happygrinch is defending IT. Everything else you siad, ChiBulls, I agree with 100%.


reading is fundamental.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> ...along with receiving better players in return, the Knicks also took on some $32.5 million in future salary.
> 
> If Thomas was going to do that - as practically no one thought he would leading up to the deadline - one wonders why he didn't spring for Chris Webber. *Thomas said he never spoke to Sacramento about Webber, whom the Sixers acquired late Wednesday night in a move that "surprised" the Knicks' president. Thomas called Webber a great talent but, at nearly 32 with a history of knee trouble, a big risk.*
> 
> ...


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/284362p-243625c.html


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> According to a high-ranking Knicks' official, the team had a trade on the table for third-year power forward Drew Gooden and guard Ira Newble before Cleveland backed out because it was unwilling to take on Thomas' contract.
> 
> So instead of solving a problem, Isiah Thomas may have created more by acquiring a pair of power forwards with long-term contracts.


Now the trade for the two power forwards makes sense.

Drew Gooden can't find a home ANYWHERE.

(Edit)

Even Better:



> The Daily News reported that an argument between Kurt Thomas and Marbury that began on the bench nearly escalated into a locker-room fistfight.
> 
> Isiah Thomas stepped in between both players and told them to start acting like teammates because neither was being traded. Kurt Thomas responded by asking his boss to step aside "so I can kick (Marbury's) butt."
> 
> ...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> "No, not that bad," Thomas qualified. "But everyone in the Eastern Conference is playing without a pure center except the Heat [Shaq], the Cavaliers [Zydrunas Ilgauskas] and now the Bulls [Eddy Curry]."
> -
> In Thomas' jumbled judgment he thinks compiling immaterial draft picks (two No. 1s this June and two the year after, he gleefully notes) is vital to rebuilding.
> 
> ...


http://nypost.com/sports/knicks/22181.htm


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> If Thomas was going to do that - as practically no one thought he would leading up to the deadline - one wonders why he didn't spring for Chris Webber. Thomas said he never spoke to Sacramento about Webber, whom the Sixers acquired late Wednesday night in a move that "surprised" the Knicks' president. Thomas called Webber a great talent but, at nearly 32 with a history of knee trouble, a big risk.


The team is commited to paying 110 million next year and 84 million in 2006/2007 and besides Marbury, none are All Stars. How much of a risk would be aquiring Weber and his contract when the payroll is already out of control? 

At least Weber is capable of taking over games, the same can't be said of most of the Knicks team. Maurice Taylor at 10 million a season is no risk, it's alreay throwing money away. Getting Weber would of been a risk with a chance of great reward.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> ISIAH THOMAS'S strategy of diversion through chaos has begun to require multiple-choice questions to decipher his assemblage of the *FedEx Knicks.*
> 
> He shipped out four more Knicks yesterday to receive two forwards, draft picks and salary cap baggage in a desperate attempt to:
> 
> ...




i'm really thankful i have time warner cable, and not cablevison! :laugh:


NY Times (subscription)

http://nytimes.com/2005/02/25/sports/basketball/25roberts.html


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

L.O.B said:


> The team is commited to paying 110 million next year and 84 million in 2006/2007 and besides Marbury, none are All Stars. How much of a risk would be aquiring Weber and his contract when the payroll is already out of control?
> 
> At least Weber is capable of taking over games, the same can't be said of most of the Knicks team. Maurice Taylor at 10 million a season is no risk, it's alreay throwing money away. Getting Weber would of been a risk with a chance of great reward.


From $110M to $84M is a $26M savings. Seems like the payroll is at least going in the right direction.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Laydon's gone long enough: This is Thomas' Reign of Error

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/.../20050225/COLUMNIST03/502250316/1108/SPORTS01



> This is not Scott Layden's fault, not anymore. Layden was an unmitigated disaster, a hopelessly overmatched scout, a charisma-free executive who was as comfortable working the mean New York streets as Ed Whitson.
> 
> But Layden's been gone long enough now to separate his reign of error from that of his successor, Isiah Thomas, who was hired to pull the Knicks from an impossible jam. Thomas would lead with his chin on his way into town, light up the Garden with that megawatt smile of his, and return the Knicks to relevance when he hired Stephon Marbury as the hometown franchise star.
> 
> ...


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

L.O.B said:


> The team is commited to paying 110 million next year and 84 million in 2006/2007 and besides Marbury, none are All Stars. How much of a risk would be aquiring Weber and his contract when the payroll is already out of control?
> 
> At least Weber is capable of taking over games, the same can't be said of most of the Knicks team. Maurice Taylor at 10 million a season is no risk, it's alreay throwing money away. Getting Weber would of been a risk with a chance of great reward.



The thing is, is that he's going to end up dealing Penny and Tim Thomas' expiring contracts next season in sign and trades or during the season. That's going to end up blowing that payroll where it would have been anyway with Webber. We'll see how that plays out but I would guess they'd be no worse off taking that gamble on Webber.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

They expected to get Drew Gooden too.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

GB said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/284362p-243625c.html
> 
> Thomas said he never spoke to Sacramento about Webber, whom the Sixers acquired late Wednesday night in a move that "surprised" the Knicks' president. Thomas called Webber a great talent but, at nearly 32 with a history of knee trouble, a big risk.
> 
> "The way you've got to build this team is you've got to get younger; you've got to get more athletic," Thomas said, adding later that Webber's $62 million in remaining salary wasn't "the healthy and secure way to go" for the Knicks. "Today we got a little younger, but we also got a little better in terms of our future, in terms of adding depth."



Those are interesting quotes from Isiah. Is he trying to tell us he wouldn't have traded Penny Hardaway and Bruno Sundov (saving SAC 43 million dollars) for Chris Webber?


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Isiah baffles me. He's got close to 80 million locked up in aplethora of ****ty 6'7 power forwards, and he'd prefer that to Chris Webber? I mean, true, Cwebb is a little older and injury prone, but atleast he has talent, something which none of NY's PF's have. 

Jesus, the Knicks are so ****ed right now, it's almost laughable. There's not a team that's worse off in the leauge right now.


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## PobreDiablo (Feb 23, 2005)

eh,edited for personal attack, only Knick fans can bash their own team, this thread isn't cool :sad:


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

As a devout hater of IT, I must say this most recent trade deadline is my favorite ever. He is further confirming my belief that he is the worst GM in the league. Actually, he's starting to step it up a notch while making a run at worst GM ever - a title I previously awarded his predecessor.

And Grinch, I'm sure its in your posts somewhere, but I don't understand how you can compare Paxson's Rose and Crawford trades to IT's trades. Paxson's trades were to rid his team of unwanted players and to *take on less salary and gain cap relief within 2 years.*

IT's trades dramatically increased both the salary of the Knicks and the duration of their cap hell without adding any difference making talent. I see no benefit whatsoever to the deals. They simply wreak of more IT ego-driven baffoonery.

Since beginning this post, I am now resolute in my belief that IT is the worst GM ever.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

Penguin, do you think Zeke is a worse commisioner (ran CBA into financial ruins and bailed on the league) or a worse GM?


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Commish. He ruined an entire league and cost numerous people tons of $ and their jobs. At least now he is just ruining himself. I really believe that after such an impressive run of repeated failure in the NBA, this might be his last gig as anything but an analyst for ESPN. 

I suppose he might, maybe, get one more chance to fail as a coach. His ineptitude seems to know no bounds.


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