# Celtics' Go to man down the stretch



## ray_allen_20 (Dec 26, 2007)

Don't get me wrong, I love Paul Pierce, but how many times has Ray Allen bailed him out? Let's look at all of the Celtic's close games. 

Against Toronto. Pierce misses the shot at the end of the fourth quarter. Ray Allen hits the gamewinner in overtime. 

Against Orlando. Ray Allen hits a clutch three to bring the Celtics within 1. Pierce misses a shot at the buzzer

Against Charlotte. Pierce misses two huge shots but Ray Allen is there to bail him out, hitting the gamewinning 3 at the buzzer. 

Against Detroit. Ray Allen hits a 3 to tie the game with 17 seconds remaining but Pierce misses what would've been the game-winning shot. 

Isn't it clear who the man taking the last shot for the Celtics should be? And maybe give Garnett a shot or two....


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

To add to that, Pierce's GW attempts in the Orlando and Detroit games were very poor shots. He could of taken more time of the clock and looked for something better in both games. Ray Allen is the most Celtic on the floor right now, and I don't think KG has gotten the ball once in crunch time yet.


Welcome to the boards, by the way.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Pierce had that 1 gw against the Nets like last season.

Welcome to the boards Ben.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

Pierce is capable of being clutch as witnessed in previous years. This year, he hasn't been very good with the game on the line. Given that Ray has been better than him in the final seconds, I would make him the first option. I don't want him going one on one like Pierce does. He does best catching and shooting, so they need to stop those one on one plays and work to get the ball to the open man. Having said that, I'd give it to the most wide open guy, and if that happens to be Pierce, so be it. I wouldn't even care if it's Posey or House or even Rondo. If they're open, they should take the shot. I wouldn't draw up plays for them, but if the play doesn't go as planned, then they should shoot it if they're open.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

all very good points...but pierce would have made at least on eof those 2 fts against cleveland :biggrin:


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## ray_allen_20 (Dec 26, 2007)

How do you know that? 

All I know is that all of the best clutch players brick important free throws one time or another. Jordan did it, Kobe did it just this season, Horry did it, Nash's first free throw miss of the season was huge, Gilbert bricked two in the playoffs against the cavs...but it really doesn't matter as much as clutch field goals.

Although Pierce has proven he can be clutch, Ray Allen has done it countless more times. Most people aren't even aware of how many clutch shots he hit as a buck.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

giordun said:


> Pierce had that 1 gw against the Nets like last season.


last season. when he didn't have anyone else on his team to take those shots.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Pierce has shown to be clutch on occasion but he and Doc need to remember they have another 2 (or more) guys on the floor who they can trust with that last shot.

they need to stop running that iso crap that they have every time the game is on the line, move the ball and let whoever gets the best shot take it.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

When you need a jump shot to win the game. It should be a no brainer the ball should go to Ray "Jesus Shuttlesworth" Allen. Plus Ray is actually capable of finishing strong at the bucket as well. No doubt in my mind Ray should be the number one option when it comes down to one shot to win or tie the game.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

KG is pretty clutch.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

The ball should run through KG on a last possesion, not necissarily for the shot but it gives Ray and Paul a chance to get open or cut to the basket


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I still go to Pierce down the stretch. He had a game winner against Miami, don't forget.

When I say go to Pierce, that doesn't necessarily mean I want him taking the shot 100% of the time. I say, put the ball in his hands and let him take it to the hoop, and if he has the shot, let him take it. But if the defense collapses, this will leave Allen or Garnett open.

It is smarter to go put the ball in Pierce's hands because he can create better than Allen and Allen is more suited to get open for the jumpshot. Pierce has better court vision/passing, so you should leave it in his hands.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I really don't have many quibbles with the end-of-game calls until now. They play for the last shot when they should and for the best shot when they should. So long as they keep that up they should start winning more of the close games (admittedly there haven't been many).


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Avalanche said:


> The ball should run through KG on a last possesion, not necissarily for the shot but it gives Ray and Paul a chance to get open or cut to the basket


Gotta agree with this. KG has the best chance of drawing a double, which could leave Pierce or Ray with a good look. KG isn't shy about taking the last shot himself either and he can be pretty clutch. 

It's pretty hard to decide who gets the ball when you have 3 very viable options, but you gotta go by what situations you're under. Doc hasn't quite learned that with using Pierce down the stretch so far this year. Just have to go with what gives the team the best chance to win in the end.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

TNT Overtime was kind of discussing this and they agreed on Ray Allen.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

My reasoning for Paul Pierce? Utah.

Pierce didn't make one clutch shot, he made a ton in that game. Ray Allen will hit an important shot when you need it, but Pierce will make the majority of the plays down the stretch. This makes him the guy you wanna give the ball to. Like I said before, this doesn't necessarily mean he should always take the shot. If Allen has a good look I'd give it to him.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

KG has been the 4th Quarter monster lately


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Amen to that. The three of them combined are just too much to defend. Even when one of them is having an off night you have to keep defensive pressure on them, which has left guys like Rondo & TA a ton of uncontested jumpers this year (and thankfully they're making them so far).


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Pierce, Allen, Garnett?

I say Glen Davis.


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## pokpok (Jul 26, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> Pierce, Allen, Garnett?
> 
> I say Glen Davis.


+1 on that.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

Two games ago Garnett put the Celtics on his back in the fourth quarter. Tonight, Big Baby did.

The Celtics go to man down the stretch is whoever has the hot hand and best match up.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

ray_allen_20 said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love Paul Pierce, but how many times has Ray Allen bailed him out? Let's look at all of the Celtic's close games.
> 
> Against Toronto. Pierce misses the shot at the end of the fourth quarter. Ray Allen hits the gamewinner in overtime.


Valid. 



> Against Orlando. Ray Allen hits a clutch three to bring the Celtics within 1. Pierce misses a shot at the buzzer


That was after Allen played like crap all game. You know, after Pierce singlehandedly kept it close in the second half. The Celtics win that game handily if Allen doesn't have his own agenda. 



> Against Charlotte. Pierce misses two huge shots but Ray Allen is there to bail him out, hitting the gamewinning 3 at the buzzer.


He hits one shot after an anemic 4-15 game where he continually forced up shots. 



> Against Detroit. Ray Allen hits a 3 to tie the game with 17 seconds remaining but Pierce misses what would've been the game-winning shot.


Valid. 

By the way, Pierce hit a GW layup against the Heat and a couple gamewinning FTs awhile ago, if I'm not mistaken, and has made some huge buckets this year.

Bottom line is this - Allen's hit some big shots, yeah. But to think he's consistently bailing out a guy who has piggybacked Allen and his 42% shooting all year is absurd. There's more to a basketball game than the last eight seconds. Where was Ray last night against Detroit? Pierce took over that game with his ability to get into the lane.



> Tonight, Big Baby did.


That's completely false. He made some huge plays - agree. But all of his points were spoonfed by Pierce. Seeing as Rondo continued to be Chauncey's personal plaything and Allen couldn't get the ball past halfcourt, Big Baby doesn't matter without Pierce. Some of those passes were sick.

Not to take anything away from Glen - he converted his opportunities. But I wouldn't say he took over the game.



> Isn't it clear who the man taking the last shot for the Celtics should be?


It's tough to draw up a play for a guy who has, more often than not, shot 3-12 for the game prior to that.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Yea, in all seriousness, I say Paul Pierce.

Last night showed clearly who should be the go-to guy in the clutch.

Glen Davis shows why Paul Pierce should be that guy. Most of his buckets were from Pierce driving the lane, drawing the double team, and getting it to him. 

People think that clutch is just one shot. There's a lot more to it. Who's gonna get you in the position to take that gamewinning shot? That's what people should be asking. Paul Pierce will take over the 4th quarter and make plays for himself and others. Look at Utah and Detroit just recently.

Last night should be enough evidence. Paul just did it in a heated, hostile game on the road against the 2nd best team in the league. Making play after play. Not just one shot. Even in Utah, he was scoring every bucket down the stretch. 

Ray made a shot against the Bobcats and Raptors, two teams that we shouldn't even need clutch shots against in the first place.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

LamarButler said:


> I still go to Pierce down the stretch. He had a game winner against Miami, don't forget.


Yep, he had the Celtics' winning basket vs Miami. Was a nice move too.

I'd go to Allen in the clutch though. Either run it through KG (post) or Pierce (penetrate) than dish out to Ray and with the defence still rotating see what he can do.


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## pokpok (Jul 26, 2005)

down the stretch? - paul pierce or KG depending on who's playing well that night

final shot of the game? - ray allen


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

I'm with Banner 17, the go to man depends on the game. I trust any of our big three to make the right call most of the time. We've only lost 3, so it's not like there were a lot of "Bad Calls". 

I'd never argue with going to Paul, though.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

pokpok said:


> down the stretch? - paul pierce or KG depending on who's playing well that night
> 
> final shot of the game? - ray allen


Exactly. Run it through Pierce or Garnett and if Allen's open, get it to him.

I prefer giving it to Pierce because he's a superior clutch player to Garnett and has more playmaking ability. 

Basically, I'd put the ball in Pierce's hands, but that does not mean I want him taking the shot all the time. If he has a good shot, he should take it. If not, he should use his passing ability to get it to the man with the best shot.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

And with the way Paul was dishing assists for Davis last game, I'm thinking that's not an issue!! :biggrin:
He had some GREAT passes.


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