# Orlando Magic vs. Milwaukee Bucks Game Thread



## hobojoe

Orlando Magic vs. Milwaukee Bucks, 7 p.m. ET









Orlando Magic
Coached by: Johnny Davis 

Projected Starting Lineup:




































S. Francis  | C. Mobley  | Grant Hill  | D. Howard  | K. Cato  

Key Reserves:






















T. Battie | H. Turkoglu | J. Nelson 












Milwaukee Bucks
Coached by: Terry Porter 

Projected Starting Lineup:




































M. James | M. Redd | K. Van Horn | J. Smith | D. Gadzuric

Key Reserves:






















Z. Pachulia | D. Mason |E. Strickland 





Key Matchup:
Battle of the Shooting Guards-















Cuttino Mobley vs. Michael Redd


Game Preview

A surprise team in the NBA a year ago, the Bucks won’t be sneaking up on anyone this year, including the Magic. Milwaukee doesn’t have a franchise player, but they have several key cornerstones in Desmond Mason, Michael Redd and Erick Strickland, who all averaged over 13 points a game in the pre-season and combined for over 49 percent of the team’s scoring. The Bucks went an even 4-4 in October, losing three of their last four by an average of nearly 10 points a game. On the other hand, in the squad’s four wins, the team edged out their opponent by only a combined 10 points. *Preseason Record: 4-4 *


The Magic are taking a huge swing of momentum into the regular season after winning their last four pre-season tests. With a win against Southeast-division rival Miami in their last game, Orlando proved to the league that it could indeed hang with anyone in the NBA. So what was that difference in the wins and losses? The team turned the ball over more than 21 times in the first three games, and only 15 times in the last four. While that number is still too high for Magic Coach Johnny Davis, the only number he will ultimately care about from now on is the one on the scoreboard. *Preseason Record: 4-3*


*Last Meeting:* The Magic fell 105-97 on March 3, 2004, at the TD Waterhouse Centre in Orlando. Tracy McGrady tallied 31 for the home team, which only had one other player score more than 12 points in the losing effort. The Bucks, however, shot 51 percent and got 87 points from their starting five as they won their fourth contest in a row. 

*All-Time Series:* The Magic trail in the all-time series with the Bucks 22-34, but Orlando leads 15-13 at home. 

*Injured List:*
The Orlando Magic has placed Andrew DeClercq (right knee rehabilitation), Brandon Hunter (right Achilles tendinitis) and Mario Kasun (left knee patella tendinitis) on the Injured List. 

*Opening Night Festivities*...include a pre-game Fan Fest on the north side of TD Waterhouse Centre; the debut of the Magic BMX Team as part of the Magic’s Total Team Entertainment stable of performers, which also includes the Magic Dancers, Stuff, Scotty B, the SMT, the new Magic Jamskaters, and more; and special performances by the Florida A&M Drumline. In addition, 10,000 Office Depot & Sunshine Network Magic Team Trading Card sets will be given away. And, as part of the NBA’s Premier Week, the Magic will also help celebrate the Basketball New Year.


My Prediction: Orlando pick's up where they left off in the preseason and beat the Bucks 102-96.


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## JNice

Nice job. So is it official that Gadzuric is starting?

This team is gonna miss Brian Skinner.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Nice job. So is it official that Gadzuric is starting?
> 
> This team is gonna miss Brian Skinner.


I don't think anything is official in terms of the center position for Milwaukee, but from the way Porter was talking I think it's going to be Gadzuric or possibly Santiago starting opening night at least. I'm sure it'll fluxuate as the season progresses, and Zaza will get his chance, but I think to start out the season it'll be Gadzuric or Santiago. 

You sure are right about Skinner, that guy is one of my favorite players in the league, and in my opinion one of the most underrated. Milwaukee tried to cover the loss by signing Etan Thomas, but of course Washington matched that offer. Skinner will be missed though, people don't realize how good he is. Good rebounder, tough defender, scrappy scorer in the post and a hard worker.


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## hobojoe

Here's what Porter said by the way:



> As far as our big guys, we are still working on that. Dan Gadzuric has not played in any preseason games yet so it’s hard fore me to talk about everyone. But Daniel Santiago was a solid contributor for us last year. We have some new guys -- Zendon Hamilton, who brings a physical presence with rebounding and good defense. Zaza Pachulia is a young man who I think is just starting to get his feel for this league, 21 and he can defend around the floor extremely well. Jelani McCoy, who we have in camp and has been around the league, could do some things.


LINK


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## dominikan_balla1

should be a good game but im goin with the magic on this one

*magic-95* 
*bucks-89*


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## hobojoe

Game starts in about an hour. Let's kick off the 04-05 season the right way by putting this one in the W column. 

Good news for the Magic; Mike James is out for this game, so the Bucks are extremely thin at point guard. Looks like all they have there for today is Erick Strickland and Mo Williams. Dan Gadzuric is expected to start the game at center too, by the way.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Good news for the Magic; Mike James is out for this game, so the Bucks are extremely thin at point guard. Looks like all they have there for today is Erick Strickland and Mo Williams. Dan Gadzuric is expected to start the game at center too, by the way.


Good news for two reasons:

1) Orlando PGs should have it easy
2) I picked Strickland for my fantasy team


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> Good news for two reasons:
> 
> 1) Orlando PGs should have it easy
> 2) I picked Strickland for my fantasy team


Hopefully Francis and Nelson can take advantage. I think we may even see Anthony Goldwire for the Bucks tonight. We really should win this game against a team about on the same level as us in the eyes of many. They're dealing with injuries already, and it's important to start the season on a high note.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Hopefully Francis and Nelson can take advantage. I think we may even see Anthony Goldwire for the Bucks tonight. We really should win this game against a team about on the same level as us in the eyes of many. They're dealing with injuries already, and it's important to start the season on a high note.


I have a feeling Orlando wins this game handily. 

I am excited to actually see Hill playing in a real game that counts. So much for all those people who said he'd never play another game for Orlando.


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## JNice

Sombody is lying about the 7'1" Mario Kasun, unless Dwight Howard is 7'1" also because side by side they looked about the exact same height.


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## Captain Obvious

What a dunk by Francis!!! 13-13.


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## hobojoe

A blistering pace so far, 17-15 Bucks with about 5 minutes to play in the first quarter. Francis had a huge dunk that you'll be seeing on SportsCenter tomorrow. Hill's looked great so far, creating plays and already has 6 points. We need to step up our D though, particularly inside. It may be hard to do though with Howard and Cato already with a foul each.


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## Amareca

Good opportunity for Dwight to start the season with a bang against a sorry frontcourt like Milwaukee.


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## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> I am excited to actually see Hill playing in a real game that counts. So much for all those people who said he'd never play another game for Orlando.


Don't look at me!


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## hobojoe

The second unit looked extremely shaky on offense, but defensively they looked pretty good, particularly with Battie anchoring the defense down low. I don't think Davis should be sounding out 5 reserves all at once in the first quarter of a game, there's just not enough offense out there when you have Nelson, Augmon, Turkoglu, Garrity and Battie.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Good opportunity for Dwight to start the season with a bang against a sorry frontcourt like Milwaukee.


4 points, 3 rebounds, 2 blocks and a steal in the first quarter for Howard in only 9 minutes.


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## JNice

Second unit not too pretty. Davis needs to keep one of Francis, Mobley, or Hill on the court with the second unit, until Jameer or Hedo learns to lead that group.

Hill is looking pretty good. Ankle looks fine. His ball-handling still a little shaky.

I love having Augmon on this team.

This is going to be a fun team to watch.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> 
> Don't look at me!


:laugh: 

12 pts in 17 mins in the first half.


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## hobojoe

Magic lead 50-47 at the half.

A couple of notes:
-Our transition defense has been horrible thus far. We're also allowing way too much penetration from Mo Williams, which is really the only reason the Magic aren't up double digits right now.
-We need to make our free throws. 
-Grant Hill looked great, 12 points in 17 minutes.
-Great first half from Francis; 10 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists and good decision making for the most part.
-Garrity has found his shot!
-Howard stuggled from the foul line(0-4) but otherwise had a solid, but unspectacular first half. I'm still extremely impressed with his hands.
-Mobley's shot selection was shaky in the first half, he took quite a few questionable shots particularly early in the shot clock. 
-Turnovers weren't bad, only 9 in the first half(4 from Hill) and we've forced the Bucks into 10 turnovers, so we're winning that battle. 
-13 points from the bench, 7 from Garrity.

Overall, I feel good about our chances in the 2nd half.


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## JNice

If Howard had made his free throws his first half would have seemed great, 10 pts and 6 boards.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> If Howard had made his free throws his first half would have seemed great, 10 pts and 6 boards.


People constantly talk about how inconsistent high schoolers are their rookie year, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if free throw shooting was the most inconsistent part of Dwight's game this season. It seems one game, whether it be preseason or Summer League he'd put up 7 out of 8 from the line or something like that, and the next game 1-6. No reason why it'll be any different in the regular season.


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## Captain Obvious

The thing that impresses me about Howard isn't his hands but his excellent touch around the basket. I completely agree that free throws will be the most inconsistent thing in his game. Along with free throws I'd like to see Howard improve by being less mechanical in the post and not biting on pump fakes so much. Overall, I'm very happy with Howard.


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## JNice

This team is already 20 times better to watch than last year.

Man they really get out and run, especially the first team.

Dwight has some great hands. This kid is gonna be special.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> The thing that impresses me about Howard isn't his hands but his excellent touch around the basket. I completely agree that free throws will be the most inconsistent thing in his game. Along with free throws I'd like to see Howard improve by being less mechanical in the post and not biting on pump fakes so much. Overall, I'm very happy with Howard.


Two finishes in the first quarter with his left hand were nice. Good to see him with that ability at such a young age.


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## JNice

This is good stuff.


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## JNice

HILL IS ON FIRE!!!


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## JNice

Hell, even Cato having a great game.


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## Captain Obvious

They are really fun to watch. They're simply destroying the Bucks now. Hill has 18 points, I wish RP and all those other guys could see this game.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> They are really fun to watch. They're simply destroying the Bucks now. Hill has 18 points, I wish RP and all those other guys could see this game.


This first team is playing some beautiful basketball.


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## JNice

****!!!!

what a dunk ... wow....


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## Captain Obvious

Howard  

When's the last time the arena was this loud???

:bbanana: :wbanana: :bbanana: :wbanana:


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Howard
> 
> When's the last time the arena was this loud???
> 
> :bbanana: :wbanana: :bbanana: :wbanana:


This is great. I'm loving this team. Good job Weisbrod.


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## hobojoe

HELL YEAH!!! This is going to be a fun season. :bsmile:

Howard takes it on the fast break for the slam! Another SportsCenter highlight. 10-9-3 for Howard so far, he's played excellently in the 3rd quarter so far as the entire team. Hill has 18 points, I've been really impressed with him. The passing has been very good so far for the team as a whole. This is fun to watch.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> HELL YEAH!!! This is going to be a fun season. :bsmile:
> 
> Howard takes it on the fast break for the slam! Another SportsCenter highlight. 10-9-3 for Howard so far, he's played excellently in the 3rd quarter so far as the entire team. Hill has 18 points, I've been really impressed with him. The passing has been very good so far for the team as a whole. This is fun to watch.


When is the last time Orlando had this many dunks in a game? Been a long time.

This might be the best fast break team i've seen in a while. Even on makes.


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## JNice

8 mins into the 3rd quarter without a turnover .. nice !!


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## hobojoe

The fastbreak has been looking extremely good so far. I can't wait to see this team gel and progress as the year goes along. We're going to be an exciting team to watch, that's for sure. Great debut for Howard.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> The fastbreak has been looking extremely good so far. I can't wait to see this team gel and progress as the year goes along. We're going to be an exciting team to watch, that's for sure. Great debut for Howard.


Hard to imagine if Hill stays healthy he's just going to get better.


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## hobojoe

David Steele just said it perfectly: "For a group of players who have played together for such a short period of time, they sure have come together quickly."

The ball movement from Orlando has been extremely good. A lot of unselfish play out there, that's what I like to see.


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## JNice

The second unit looking pretty sloppy though. 

Pachulia is playing well for the Bucks.


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## hobojoe

Damn, terrible finish to what started out as such a great quarter. Davis is going to have to re-assess his substitution patterns after the game and realize that you can't have a team of Nelson, Augmon, Turkoglu, Garrity and Cato out there all at once and expect to score. On another note, we really need to hope Tony Battie's OK, he left with what appeared to be a knee injury. He went into the lockerroom.


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## JNice

OH DAMN!!!


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## hobojoe

JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU'VE SEEN THE BEST!!! FRANCIS!!!


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## JNice

Orlando gonna be all over Sportscenter tonight!


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## JNice

Here come the turnovers!! :laugh:


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## hobojoe

Damn, it's time to buckle down and pull this game out. Great take to the whole by Francis, I'm really liking how he's played tonight. He's been in control most of the time, and he's attacked the basket almost every time he's touched the ball. He's not settling for the jumpers, and I like that. A great all around game from Stevie. We need for our guys to step it up in the half court offense and on the defensive end.


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## JNice

Orlando has gone stone cold. :sigh:


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## JNice

Dwight, great block!


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## hobojoe

Francis is keeping us in the game. Tied up at 85. Dwight Howard is 0-6 from the line, all 6 off the back of the rim. :no:


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## JNice

Cato blocking shots ... good stuff.


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## JNice

Great game for Cato.


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## hobojoe

Huge play by Cato....Kukoc:upset:


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## JNice

We're gonna have to get better defensively. Offensively, we should be fine.


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## JNice

haha... HILL!


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## Captain Obvious

Grant Hill!!! What a game.


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## hobojoe

Hill! 91-90 Magic with 19.3 seconds to play!


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## JNice

I hope his first game ends with his game winner. That would be great!


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## JNice

Lucky SOB


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## Captain Obvious

If we lose, free throws and our second unit will be the culprits.


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## JNice

YES!!!!


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## Captain Obvious

YEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Tooeasy

i keep my money stuffed under my matress, **** banks. lucky shot by redd, but francis saved your guys' asses


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## JNice

damn, that was a great game to watch ....


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## JNice

I think Francis gets a free throw too...


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## hobojoe

FRANCIS!!!!! Welcome to Orlando Stevie Francis, what an amazing game! One of the best games I've watched in a long time. Damn, the NBA season is here, can you feel it!?! Magic: 1-0.


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## JNice

Can we end the season now... might not get better than this.


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## JNice

Grant Hill with 20 in his return ... that is crazy.

Dwight would have had an awesome game if he hit his freaking free throws!


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## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Can we end the season now... might not get better than this.


Lol, unfortunately I was thinking the same.

Stars of the Game:

Francis- 26 pts, 9 reb, 7 ast. People are going to remember why this guy used to be considered such a great player.

Howard- 12 pts, 10 reb, 4 blk, 3 stl, 2 ast. Great overall game, but he needs to work on those free throws.

Hill- 20 pts, 4 reb, 2 ast. He's baaaack.


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## HKF

Very impressive game. I like the makeup of this Orlando team. What can you say about Grant Hill? If he is healthy all year, watch out.


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## JNice

The chemistry on this team appears amazing right now.


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## JNice

Might as well just hand over the rings now! :laugh: 

just kidding people ... just kidding ...


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> The chemistry on this team appears amazing right now.


Incredible considering it's the first game with a whole new team. The unselfishness was really impressive. Francis came up huge down the stretch, not just with the buzzer-beater. What more is there to say? Awesome, awesome game.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Incredible considering it's the first game with a whole new team. The unselfishness was really impressive. Francis came up huge down the stretch, not just with the buzzer-beater. What more is there to say? Awesome, awesome game.


I wanna see them keep playing. Bring'em out for another! :laugh: 

Dwight was looking pretty tired late in the 4th ... don't think he could handle another.


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## hobojoe

In other news, when was the last time this forum had such a long thread? Hopefully the activity in here can continue throughout the season.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> In other news, when was the last time this forum had such a long thread? Hopefully the activity in here can continue throughout the season.


It would help if the team plays like this all year ... people are gonna love seeing this team play.


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## Captain Obvious

Next time there's a thread this long hopefully there's more than three people posting in it.


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## hobojoe

Yeah, I've had no luck recruiting new Magic fans to post here. :sigh:


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## BallBiologist

yeh..good win..i just got back from watching


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## hobojoe

Our starters played pretty big minutes, really only Garrity, Turkoglu and Battie played significant roles off the bench. Stevenson didn't even play despite Bogans being gone, and neither did Bradley.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Next time there's a thread this long hopefully there's more than three people posting in it.


:laugh: 

I'm sure at some point we'll hit 4 people.


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## magicfan187

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Dwight Howard is 0-6 from the line, all 6 off the back of the rim. :no:


at least he was consistent


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## BallBiologist

> Originally posted by <b>magicfan187</b>!
> 
> 
> at least he was consistent


hahaha

i bet he gets yelled at for that...he would've had a 15/10..but he missed those ft's


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>BallBiologist</b>!
> 
> 
> hahaha
> 
> i bet he gets yelled at for that...he would've had a 15/10..but he missed those ft's


18 pts - 10 rebs - 4 blocks would have looked a lot nicer than 12 pts - 10 rebs - 5 blocks


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## Dark Praetor

How did Mobley do? It doesn't sound like he was doing great from what Hobo and Jnice wrote, but I didn't see the game.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Dark Praetor</b>!
> How did Mobley do? It doesn't sound like he was doing great from what Hobo and Jnice wrote, but I didn't see the game.


He played well. Nothing spectacular, but he was solid. Just other guys outshined him tonight. He played some good D on Redd.


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## rock747

The Magic looked good. I like the team this year, and its good to see Hill back. I think the Magic have a definite chance of making the playoffs.


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## JNice

Well, Orlando, Miami, and Washington all win tonight, so no early division lead for Orlando. 

Washington pulled one out of their butts. With guys suspended and I know they were down about 20 pts at one point during that game.


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## JNice

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...gicgamer110404,1,6732050.story?coll=orl-magic

Box Score


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## JT3000

Francis & Hill played well. Dwight really needs to work on his free throws and rebounding effort. Our backups looked just plain bad. Davis needs to learn not to put them all on the floor together. Nobody could create their own shot. I can't believe we lost a 15 point lead because of that. Mobley needs to stop jacking up shots. He looked like a hog. Other than that, it was a good start.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>JT3000</b>!
> Francis & Hill played well. Dwight really needs to work on his free throws and rebounding effort. Our backups looked just plain bad. Davis needs to learn not to put them all on the floor together. Nobody could create their own shot. I can't believe we lost a 15 point lead because of that. Mobley needs to stop jacking up shots. He looked like a hog. Other than that, it was a good start.


I think Dwight did a great job rebounding. He had some big ones. He got his hands on a lot of others that he didn't reel in, but he'll learn to get those. It wasn't a lack of effort, although Howard did look noticeably tired at the end of the game. But the way he was jetting up and down the court, not a surprise.

I agree on the backups though ... Nelson, Augmon, Hedo, Garrity, and Battie aren't gonna get it done together. That group needs Hill or Francis on the court as well.


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## -33-

good start for ya'll

Howard looked good...and Franchise hit the big shot


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Shaq_Diesel</b>!
> good start for ya'll
> 
> Howard looked good...and Franchise hit the big shot


Better hope the Diesel hammy is ok because we're gonna be breathing down your necks.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Dark Praetor</b>!
> How did Mobley do? It doesn't sound like he was doing great from what Hobo and Jnice wrote, but I didn't see the game.


Like JNice said, his defense on Redd was very good. I didn't like his shot selection yesterday at all though. He took way too many low percentage shots early in the shot clock, which is never a good thing, especially when your shot isn't on. He'll bounce back though, it's nothing to worry about. Hill and Francis picked him up this time.


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## DaUnbreakableKinG




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## John

lol at Nelson.

Scrub name.


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## Enigma

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> lol at Nelson.
> 
> Scrub name.


This coming from a guy named John.


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## Yao Mania

> Originally posted by <b>Enigma</b>!
> 
> 
> This coming from a guy named John.


OWNED!!! :laugh:


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## MiamiHeat03

I didnt watch the game but from what i am reading in this thread it seems like this Orlando team is like last year Miami Heat's team.
exciting to watch very similar Odom is like Grant Hill and Wade is like Francis
Wade-Francis
EJ-Mobley
Caron-Grant
Odom-Dwight
Grant- Cato
could have been an exciting series to watch.  
Wouldnt suprised if suddenly KG starts asking for a trade and Orlando offering Cato,Dwight,and Mobley for KG.


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## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>JT3000</b>!
> Francis & Hill played well. Dwight really needs to work on his free throws and rebounding effort. Our backups looked just plain bad. Davis needs to learn not to put them all on the floor together. Nobody could create their own shot. I can't believe we lost a 15 point lead because of that. Mobley needs to stop jacking up shots. He looked like a hog. Other than that, it was a good start.


Pretty much agree with everything here. IMO, out of Francis, Mobley, and Hill at least two of those guys need to be on the court at all times. Dwight's free throws were off but his effort was impressive. Mobley didn't have a good game at all but we almost lost this game because of our coach and his crappy substitution patterns .


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> 
> Pretty much agree with everything here. IMO, out of Francis, Mobley, and Hill at least two of those guys need to be on the court at all times. Dwight's free throws were off but his effort was impressive. Mobley didn't have a good game at all but we almost lost this game because of our coach and his crappy substitution patterns .


Very true. I was surprised by that lineup he left out there for awhile. I think Jameer Nelson would be better off with Hill on the court with him and Hill playing point-forward for awhile, so Nelson really only has the responsibility to hit open jumpers.


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## BallBiologist

> Originally posted by <b>MiamiHeat03</b>!
> I didnt watch the game but from what i am reading in this thread it seems like this Orlando team is like last year Miami Heat's team.
> exciting to watch very similar Odom is like Grant Hill and Wade is like Francis
> Wade-Francis
> EJ-Mobley
> Caron-Grant
> Odom-Dwight
> Grant- Cato
> could have been an exciting series to watch.
> Wouldnt suprised if suddenly KG starts asking for a trade and Orlando offering Cato,Dwight,and Mobley for KG.


NO...they are better..

Wade<Francis
EJ<Mobley
Caron<Grant
Odom<Dwight (technically no..but he's a rookie sensation so yes)
Grant< Cato


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## JNice

This was that poster dunk by Francis. Nasty, just nasty.


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## JNice

Postgame Quotes, November 3
Orlando Magic 93, Milwaukee Bucks 92 



> On Grant Hill’s play: “I thought Grant did a real nice job tonight. He looked comfortable and his game condition is improving every day and I see Grant Hill beginning to round into the shape that I know he’ll be in as we move forward.”





> On Dwight Howard’s double-double tonight: “We thought Dwight would be ready for the NBA and play effectively right away. One of the things that is very good about Dwight is that he can impact the game without having to score the basketball for us. He can block shots, he rebounds, he runs the floor, he does a lot of things that don’t even show up on the box score. He’s playing solid. When you think about a kid just coming out of high school and who went to prom four months ago, he’s doing a nice job.”


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## BallBiologist

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was that poster dunk by Francis. Nasty, just nasty.


F-A-C-I-A-L

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- When it comes to cosmetics, the ancient Romans knew what they were doing.

Scientists have unearthed a small tin canister dating back to the middle of the second century AD in an excavated Roman temple precinct in London that contains a sophisticated white cream that could rival today's top cosmetics.

"It is quite a complicated little mixture," Richard Evershed, an analytical chemist at the University of Bristol in south-western England, told Reuters on Wednesday.

"Perhaps they didn't understand the chemistry of everything but they obviously knew what they were doing."

The pot, measuring 60 mm x 52 mm (2.4 x 2 inches), is thought to be the only Roman tin of cream of its kind to be found intact and in such good condition.

It was discovered in a waterlogged ditch preserved under wooden planks in thick layers of mud.

The scientists, who reported the findings in the journal Nature, think the whitish cream was probably worn by fashionable Roman women. A fair complexion was popular in Roman times, according to the researchers.

"We're speculating that it would have been some sort of foundation cream," Evershed added.

The cream consists of about 40 percent animal fat -- most likely from sheep or cattle -- 40 percent starch and tin oxide. The fat forms the creamy base and the tin oxide makes the mixture opaque white.

"As far as I can tell, the tin oxide was quite inert so it wouldn't cause any dermatological problems," said Evershed.

Francis Grew, of the Museum of London, said both the tin and its contents were of very high quality.

"The cosmetic trade seems to have ranged in Roman times from a sort of home-spun type of thing ... to a sophisticated level," he told Reuters.

Evershed said: "It gives us yet another insight into the sophisticated way in which our ancestors used materials from their environment. This is an ancient technology and one that doesn't differ so much from some of the cosmetic technologies in use today."


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## JNice

I read that three times trying to figure out the relevance ... then realized it was about a facial cream.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> This was that poster dunk by Francis. Nasty, just nasty.


Man, what a picture. Who is that guy on the Bucks that got posterized? Joe Smith maybe, or Erick Strickland. I can't tell


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Man, what a picture. Who is that guy on the Bucks that got posterized? Joe Smith maybe, or Erick Strickland. I can't tell


I'm pretty sure it was Strickland. I don't think he would have gotten it down if it were Smith.


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## BallBiologist

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> I read that three times trying to figure out the relevance ... then realized it was about a facial cream.


yeah... again like I said.... "FACIAL"


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