# 2005 Playoffs: Memphis Grizzlies vs Phoenix Suns, Game 3 (4/29/05)



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

<html><head><title><center>Untitled Document</title><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><style type="text/css"><!--.style2 {font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif;font-size: 10px;}.style3 {font-size: 10px;font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;}.style4 {font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; }.style5 {font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-weight: bold;font-size: 10px;}.style6 {font-size: 6px}--></style></head>
<body><table width="569" height="165" border="1"><tr><td width="139"><div align="center"><p><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/nba/clubhouse/mem_logo.gif" width="126" height="126"></p><p><span class="style2">(0-2)</span></p></div></td><td width="15"><div align="center"><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/headToHeadTeamResults?statsId1=29&statsId2=21&">at</a></p><p> </p></div></td><td width="139" height="159"><div align="center"><p><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/nba/clubhouse/pho_logo.gif" width="126" height="126"></p><p><span class="style2">(2-0)</span></p></div></td><td width="248"><p align="center"><span class="style5">Teams:</span><span class="style4"> (8) <a href="http://nba.com/grizzlies">Memphis Grizzlies</a> vs (1) <a href="http://nba.com/suns">Phoenix Suns</a></span></p><p align="center" class="style3"><strong>Date: </strong>Friday, April 29, 2005</p><p align="center" class="style4"><strong>Time:</strong> 8:00 CST</p><p align="center" class="style4"><strong>Place:</strong> <a href="http://www.fedexforum.com">FedExForum</a>, Memphis, Tennessee</p><p align="center" class="style4"><strong>TV:</strong> NBATV (Free Preview from April 23-May 6), ESPN2, FSN</p><p align="center" class="style4"><strong>Radio: </strong><a href="http://www.nba.com/insideticket/alp_schedule.html">NBA-ALP</a>, <a href="http://www.soulclassics.com/home.html">WRBO 103.5 FM</a>, <a href="http://www.sports56whbq.com">560AM</a></p> <p align="center" class="style4"> </p> </td></tr></table>

<center>*Starting Lineups*</center>
<p align="left" class="style6"> </p><table width="510" height="133" border="1"><tr><td width="107"><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3250.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td><td width="107"><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3404.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td><td width="107"><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3516.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td><td width="35"><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3513.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td><td width="120"><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3116.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td></tr><tr><td height="23"><div align="center"><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/headToHeadResults?statsId1=3250&statsId2=3103&">vs</a></div></td><td><div align="center"><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/headToHeadResults?statsId1=3404&statsId2=3520&">vs</a></div></td><td><div align="center"><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/headToHeadResults?statsId1=3516&statsId2=3417&">vs</a></div></td><td><div align="center"><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/headToHeadResults?statsId1=3513&statsId2=3332&">vs</a></div></td><td><div align="center"><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/headToHeadResults?statsId1=3116&statsId2=3607&">vs</a></div></td></tr><tr><td height="102"><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3103.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td><td><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3520.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td><td><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3417.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td><td><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3332.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td><td><div align="center"><img src="http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/3607.jpg" width="107" height="133"></div></td></tr></table><p> </p></center></body></html>







Team Roster *|* Team Stats *|* Remaining Schedule *|* Season Splits *|* Quotes *|* Game Notes







Team Roster *|* Team Stats *|* Remaining Schedule *|* Season Splits *|* Quotes *|* Game Notes



<center>*News and Other Info*</center>
*Series Coverage*: CBS *|* Commercial Appeal *|* ESPN *|* FOX *|* Grizzlies *|* NBA *|* SI *|* Yahoo!
*Game Previews*: CBS *|* ESPN *|* FOX *|* NBA *|* Yahoo!
*Live Updates*: CBS *|* ESPN *|* NBA
*Play by Play*: CBS *|* ESPN *|* NBA
*Game Recap*: CBS *|* ESPN *|* FOX *|* NBA *|* Yahoo!
*Game Photos*: CBS *|* ESPN *|* Getty *|* Grizzlies *|* Yahoo!
*bbb.net Playoffs 2005 Thread*: Phoenix vs Memphis
*Other bbb.net Forums*: NBA Playoffs 2005 *|* Phoenix Forum











*Note:* Game Thread Best Viewed at 1024x768​


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

I think Memphis gained a lot of confidence out of the last game and should be tough. Unfortuneatly for Memphis fans, I think Phoenix will have too much fire power for the Grizzlies to overcome. Plus, Nash has to break out of shooting slump one of these days, and I think Friday will be that day.

Suns 105
Grizzlies 101


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## HogsFan1188 (Nov 24, 2004)

KidCanada said:


> I think Memphis gained a lot of confidence out of the last game and should be tough. Unfortuneatly for Memphis fans, I think Phoenix will have too much fire power for the Grizzlies to overcome. Plus, Nash has to break out of shooting slump one of these days, and I think Friday will be that day.
> 
> Suns 105
> Grizzlies 101


eh?


This is a must win. If they lose this, they can pretty much mail it in.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

It'd be nice to see JWill in the fourth quarter for more than a minute and a half.

You've shortened the bench, Czar. Well done. Now play the players who deserve the minutes. Especially down the stretch.


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

My prediction:
Memphis 110
-
Phoenix 120


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Mike Frattello is the dumbest coach I have ever seen. He keeps taking out J Will, Pau, Shane, and Miller and every freaking time the Suns erase whatever lead the Grizzlies have or extend their advantage.

I have no confidence in our coach. We can't win because he is too stupid to play his best players.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Frattello will wait until the Suns are up 10 to put the starters back in....


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Can you fire the coach at halftime?


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Two fouls in the 3rd quarter and he pulls Pau.


Stromille Swift in La La land...


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Get Stro out of the freaking game....


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Mike Frttello, once again, killed the entire momentum of the game with freaking mass substitutions.

Lorenzen Wright is a waste of space but somehow gets more minutes than Pau. Earl Watson hasn't done anything in April but he still gets minutes.

No expectations of the Grizzlies as long as Coach Moron is on the bench.


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## Virtuoso (Jan 26, 2004)

I just turned the game on in the 3rd but what's up with the empty seats and dead crowd? Make some noise people! Your down in this game and down 2-0 in the series, but if you didn't know that and was going solely by the crowd you'd think Memphis was up 3-0 in this series... :dead:


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Virtuoso said:


> I just turned the game on in the 3rd but what's up with the empty seats and dead crowd? Make some noise people! Your down in this game and down 2-0 in the series, but if you didn't know that and was going solely by the crowd you'd think Memphis was up 3-0 in this series... :dead:



Game was a sellout.


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

Virtuoso said:


> I just turned the game on in the 3rd but what's up with the empty seats and dead crowd? Make some noise people! Your down in this game and down 2-0 in the series, but if you didn't know that and was going solely by the crowd you'd think Memphis was up 3-0 in this series... :dead:


The Suns took the crowd out of it early - literally.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Virtuoso said:


> I just turned the game on in the 3rd but what's up with the empty seats and dead crowd? Make some noise people! Your down in this game and down 2-0 in the series, but if you didn't know that and was going solely by the crowd you'd think Memphis was up 3-0 in this series... :dead:


There wasn't much to make noise for. The team's demeanor, attitude and effort for the final 36 minutes was completely demoralizing. There was absolutely nothing I could think of to cheer for, and the only reason I'd even open my mouth was to try to let Earl and Stromile know how much they suck.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

Virtuoso said:


> I just turned the game on in the 3rd but what's up with the empty seats and dead crowd? Make some noise people! Your down in this game and down 2-0 in the series, but if you didn't know that and was going solely by the crowd you'd think Memphis was up 3-0 in this series... :dead:


I left with 6:00 to go. Most of us went to Musicfest to catch Trey Anastsio of Phish fame and some other guys for the last performances of tonight. Certainly is a whole lot better than watching this crappy, ***** *** Memphis Grizzlies team.

It got pretty loud at points, but there wasn't much to cheer for.

Why should the fans care when the players don't?


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## HogsFan1188 (Nov 24, 2004)

Shame I had to waste my time going to a game as aweful and pathetic as that. I coulda been drinking at musc fest. :curse: 

BOOOOOOO!!!!!


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Well we can officially bring out the gone fishing pics. Grizzlies showed absolutely no heart, desire or hustle. Nothing.

This team needs an extreme makeover. We have one part in place with Gasol and his contract. Every other player should be activelyt shopped on the market...aggressively.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

What is there to say? The season's over.

I basically just got back from the game. Normally, I'll listen to the postgame show, but I was too frustrated to do anything but drive back in silence.

This was the season tonight. Everything we've done, all 82 games, the practices, the preseason, all the injuries and tough stretches and coaching changes when people said that they could write Memphis off. We battled through all that, proved everyone wrong and snagged the 8th seed in the playoffs. 

That means, of course, we play the No. 1 seed. We go into their place in Game 1, we play them tough. At certain points, it looked like we'd get right back into the ball game and maybe even take the lead if a couple bounces or calls went our way. In Game 2, we threw everything we had at them. We made the adjustments necessary and really gave Phoenix a scare. Probably should've won.

But we're down 0-3, and this game pretty much makes or breaks our year. Do or die. No one's ever come back from 0-3, so a loss tonight all but ends our season. And _that_ was the effort we showed?

This is the kind of game where I should demand a refund for my ticket. The first-ever playoff game in the FedExForum. All the fun and entertainment leading up to the actual game, and the lights just get shut off with a minute to go in the first quarter.

We played 11 minutes of tremendous basketball. It's almost as if when we started out 8-0 and everything we were shooting was falling, we had all this confidence. But then, Phoenix made a steady comeback, JWill gets taken out, Pau gets taken out. The Suns go on a 6-0 run as soon as Girl Watson comes in and takes the lead at the end of the first.

So, wow. We did all that, and they still beat us in the quarter. We don't stand a chance. We might as well pack it in. The PA announcer might as well have addressed the crowd with that, because that's what the whole team was thinking. The whole team.

And Mike Fratello, WTF. How much rest do these guys need? Where's the justification for letting JWill rot on the bench until six or seven minutes left in the first half? Why the hell is he not in the game _at all_ in the fourth quarter? The game may have been out of reach, but why just concede defeat when the Suns are dunking all in our faces (how's that feel, Stro?) on our home court? Put someone in that'll make a difference. That person is not Watson. 

Czar did an admirable job managing all the injury problems we had when he took over, but boy oh boy, he has sucked in the playoffs. This is worse than Hubie beating the dead 10-man horse against the Spurs. What is so goddamn hard about substitution patterns and making sure your best players are the ones who play? 

The team feeds off the energy of the coach, and I don't even know if Fratello left his seat in the second half. He just sat there with a look on his face like George W. Bush trying to do algebra in his head. It's inexcusable. And ridiculous. 

And the team reflected the same attitude. "You shoot it!" "No, _you_ shoot it!" "I don't want it, you shoot it!" We need _someone, anyone_ to step up and say, "I'm going to score 30 points tonight." It doesn't have to be the same player. We just need one guy each game to decide to use the talents he has. And no one wants to do that. No one on this team wanted the ball in the third quarter, and that stat's not evidenced by the turnovers alone.

I don't get it. Stromile's in the game for three minutes, and I'm just embarrassed that he's even on the team. Amare made him his whore for life. Who's going to give you $60 million now, Stro? Don't even bother getting off the bench in Game 4. Isn't your ankle supposed to be hurting? Loser.

And if I ever see Earl Watson's face again, it'll be too soon. I never even want to type "Earl Watson" again. My God, the suckage.

One thing I don't understand about Pau Gasol is how he'll wait for the double team to come, and then he'll start making a move to the basket. Go there when you're single-covered, and if the double comes, kick the ball out! And three rebounds is just sorry. And I love Gasol. I might be the biggest Pau fan on the site. But for him to come out like that after a monster Game 2, ugh. That being said, if anyone ever needs an example of how lousy our team is at getting him the ball, look no further.

Lorenzen had a very nice game. One of the few bright spots tonight. Jason Williams had some great drives to the goal, for a guy who never penetrates. Beautiful passes on the breaks as well. The behind-the-back to Battier was my favorite of the night.

I had a ball for the first 10 minutes. I felt cheated the final three quarters.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> Well we can officially bring out the gone fishing pics. Grizzlies showed absolutely no heart, desire or hustle. Nothing.
> 
> This team needs an extreme makeover. We have one part in place with Gasol and his contract. Every other player should be activelyt shopped on the market...aggressively.


Can we shop our coach and President of BO also? Outside of the obviously-terrible players and cancers, that's where all the problems are.

I wouldn't mind seeing Musselman try his hand at it. No other coach has worked with this squad for more than a few months this season. Why not?


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

The question that needs to be raised is are the Grizzlies simply content scraping into the playoffs each year, instead of really competing with the big boys of the NBA and contending for a championship.

The Suns turned it around in a season. Went nuts in free agency and scored Nash and Richardson, signing Jimmy Jackson, McCarty, Hunter, etc while this year the Grizzlies stood pat and did nothing really to improve their team. Sems to me they were content to simply scrape into the playoffs.

The thing is, apart from Miller, Gasol and Battier, who are probably untradeable, the rest of the team won't get the Grizzlies much in a trade.

They scraped into the playoffs the last 2 years, but where will the improvement come from to take this team to the upper echelon of the NBA??


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

What can I say? I'm kind of furious at this development. The Suns really just ran roughshod over the Grizz and I lay this loss at the feet of Jerry West. He has done nothing for the second year in a row. Look, I don't anticipate the Grizz winning this series, but I anticipated them winning one game. Getting swept back to back years is a huge setback for this franchise. What's going to happen next year? They aren't even going to make the playoffs. Mass substitutions still? What the frick? :whatever:


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

kingofkings said:


> The thing is, apart from Miller, Gasol and Battier, who are probably untradeable, the rest of the team won't get the Grizzlies much in a trade.
> 
> They scraped into the playoffs the last 2 years, but where will the improvement come from to take this team to the upper echelon of the NBA??


Yeah, not at all. The market values for Stromile, Watson and Posey have never been lower than they are now. Bonzi's is debatable, but it's really, really low. Basically, we wouldn't get a rally towel for Wells. I don't imagine we'd get much more for the other three after their piss-poor years.

Last year, we might have gotten something good. Or before the deadline. Stromile for Dampier and Eschmeyer was a done deal, if we pulled the trigger. We did nothing to move Wells or Posey that I know of, even when they were both having problems with Hubie Brown.

It's sad, because we can't do what Phoenix did under the cap. We have one of the ten highest payrolls in the league, actually, and several of them still have some mileage left to go. According to hoopshype, we _still_ haven't shed Michael effing Dickerson's deal. Luckily, the only players we have that are worth keeping (Gasol, Miller, Battier, Cardinal) are the ones with the six-year contracts. Dahntay and Burks are the only other two I'd like to keep. Lorenzen, too, if possible, but I wouldn't get all broken up if I saw him leave to get a bigger, better center or a star wing player/point guard.


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

That being said, i don't see any 8th seed running over or geting close to the Suns. I pick them to take the championship out this year. They have so many options and get so many free and easy points, that you need in playoff basketball.

I see them steamrolling a team like the Spurs with their run and up tempo style of basketball.If any of their guys are down someone else steps up and this has been the case of the Suns all season long.

The Grizzlies were just out of their depth in this series and it shows the difference between the elite teams and the fringe teams in the NBA.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I think it shows Jerry West is not doing enough. He didn't want Baron Davis and he didn't want Vince Carter. To this day, I can not understand not wanting Baron Davis. That was just stupid.


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

Favour needed!!

Can anyone document the moves, deals and trades West has made since his inception.

I know he had one draft getting Jones/Bell that had wtf written all over it.

Anyone??????


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/jerry_west.htm

Go here boys!!


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

Nothing special. West aint no savior. Shaky drafts, trades that never amounted to much, apart from the Gooden/Miller trade. Not really much to write about, apart from locking up guys like Gasol/Miller/Battier.

And no, he did not draft Gasol.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

kingofkings said:


> Nothing special. West aint no savior. Shaky drafts, trades that never amounted to much, apart from the Gooden/Miller trade. Not really much to write about, apart from locking up guys like Gasol/Miller/Battier.
> 
> And no, he did not draft Gasol.


Great find. I don't see a single bad move on his resume. Passing on Stoudemire for Gooden, allegedly, was because West "didn't have enough time" to scout Stoudemire upon assuming the job, so I'll give him a free pass on that one.

Gooden/Giricek for Miller/Humphrey was a good trade, seeing as we had no position for Gooden to play, and he'd already exposed himself as a headcase and a baby. Giricek is what he is, and that is, not all that good to begin with.

Banks/Perkins for Jones/Bell was ok. Jones is the best player as of now, IMO, and he'll play a big part on the team in the near-future. Bell was a total failure, however. 

Knight for Outlaw/Tsakalidis solidified the frontcourt. Knight was never going to see the floor for us.

Wells for Person/1st helped us get into the playoffs, which we would not have done had Person started in place of the injured Mike Miller. And who wound up as the 1st rounder? Khryapa? He's sucked from the times I've seen him, and he definitely wouldn't be finding any time on this team. He'd probably still be overseas.

Getting Burks and Emmett was a plus. Lishchuk will probably never play in the league.

Signing Watson to a short contract was a good move at the time, despite his regression. Signing Posey was a great move, considering he was our second-best player last year. His contract is pretty reasonable, too.

Giving Gasol, Miller and Battier long extensions was a great move, as was the longterm signing of Brian Cardinal.

My only problem is, none of these moves are going to get us far in the playoffs. They haven't even won us a game yet. What's absent from that resume is the moves West _could've_ made, but _didn't_.

Did not trade Mike Miller and Bonzi Wells for Vince Carter.
Did not trade Stromile Swift for Erick Dampier.
Did not trade Shane Battier for Baron Davis (although I didn't want to either at the time).


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

yeah

GM should not only be judged on what moves they do make but also what moves they don't make.

Didn't have time to scout??? That is a new excuse if I have ever heard one!! 

The thing about West is he is a protected species, judged from his Laker work. Not sure why that is, but the guy is gonna come under scrutiny when this team stays stagnant in the standings next year!


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Not only Vince Carter and B Diddy but he did not want Shaq, advised Kobe to stay in LA, and truly lucked into Posey because Scottie Pippen decided to sign with Chicago. This is his last offseason and I for one am glad.


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## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

I would agree that he has made some mistakes, but he did take over a team whose best season at the time was 23 wins. His predecessor traded a first round pick that would have gotten us Anthony or Wade for Otis Thorpe.

He had to wait for Big Country's contract to come off the book and then Dickerson's.

It is really disappointing to watch that crap last night, but the team has come a long way.

He would have made the Dampier deal if the owner hadn't balked on taking Eschmeyer's contract on. As for Carter, I don't believe that he would have played like he has for New Jersey for us. We don't offer the market he was looking for and we don't have a player of Jason Kidd's stature to put him in check.

Baron Davis might have been a good trade.

I can also understand West wanting to give the squad another year to gell before starting to tear pieces out of it, especially in a CBA year. If the contract length's get reduced like the league is pushing for, teams will have seriously overpaid for the talent that they got. The Suns looked great last night but if two to their starts went down with an injury that team is in trouble. They don't have anything in reserve for next year. If they had had as many injuries as the Grizzlies did this year, they could easily had the most balls in the lottery hopper.

If Jerry West doesn't perform an extreme makeover after the CBA has been signed, then I will be disappointed.

It is hard for me to understand the level of overall dissatisfication with the squad today when it was so pathetic when the team moved into Memphis. Disappointing as it was last night, I personally think that the team has come a long way in three years.


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

I am never one to look back and ask what if in looking back on a previous NBA draft. But, in 2002 when West selected Gooden with number 4. The team at the time and still is, was in dire need of a power player/rebounder, inside player. Sure, West said he never had the time to scout, but lets look at it in a different way.Isn't West supposed to be one the best talent evaluators in recent history?

Amare, the next king of the NBA was selected number 9. OK, the Grizzlies can't do anything about it now, as other teams selected others over him, but look where the Suns are now. Amare is the ,most important reason for them being championship contenders. He gets them cheap and easy points and is the force behind their surge.

The Suns have surged past the Grizz and we can look at one draft for this. A draft in which West selected Gooden who in my opinion is simply an average player, bound to be traded from team to team in his career.

It is all the little things that make a team a contender and you have to look at it as a missed opportunity and perhaps the Grizz could be where the Suns are at currently, if things were done as they should have.

Like I said its always hard to look back and ask what if, but look at the Suns now.......


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## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

grizzhoops said:


> If they had had as many injuries as the Grizzlies did this year, they could easily had the most balls in the lottery hopper.


You honestly think the Suns would be no better than the Hawks?? WHAT?


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## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

tempe85 said:


> You honestly think the Suns would be no better than the Hawks?? WHAT?



If Amare went down for 23 games and was replaced by Steven Hunter, Steven Hunter went down for 20 games and was replaced by McCarty. That's the equilent to the Grizzlies losing Gasol and Swift this year.

Add in the loss of Bonzi and Posey being out as Q and Johnson because both could have started all season if they had not been coming into and right in the middle of training camp and then spend most of the season injuried or playing with pretty bad injuries.

Let's count Bo Outlaw for Brain Cardinal's time missed.

Watson played about a month with a several sprained thumb on his shooting hand could be counted toward Barbosa. Nash's time on injured reserve is close to JWill's time on it.

The point is that Phoenix doesn't have the depth to even cover the injuried that the Grizzlies had this year much less play at a competetive level.

They would have had to start: McCarty, Marion, Jackson, Johnson, Barbosa with no one in reserve for 20 games down the stretch. Posey was our starting SF entering the season with Battier in reserve, Posey went on the IL early in the season and stayed there most of it which equates to Johnson or Q being out. Bonzi got injuried in training camp, began the season as the starting SG and played injuried resulting in him playing with the second unit by choice and having a hamstring or back problem every week for the entire season. Let's count that as the other one of Johnson or Q being out. The Griz were without Gasol from January 26 to March 20. You can count that as Marion or Stoudemire, you're choice.

I can see the Suns being down there with Atlanta, Charlotte and New Orleans if they had had the injuries that the Grizzlies had. And I am sure that they would not be in the playoffs.

Games Played
Nash 75, Barbosa 63 - JWill 71, Watson 80
Richardson 79, Jackson N/A - Miller 76, Wells 69
Johnson 82, No Backup - Posey 50, Battier 80, Cardinal 58
Marion 81, McCarty 72 (Part of which were which Boston), Outlaw 39 - Gasol 56, Swift 60
Stoudemire 80 - Wright 80

If you consider that Gasol was our best post player and Posey was expected to be our best perimeter player, you're talking about Phoenix getting 46 games out of Stoudemire and 50 games out of Johnson or Richardson. When start to consider the Phoenix's perimeter backups and the injuries that Memphis had to their backups, Phoenix would have been starting some guys from the NDBL on ten day contracts. Swift and his importance to the Grizzlies is hard to compare but it would mean that Phoenix would be without either Hunter, Marion, or McCarty. Phoenix clearly has a great starting 5 but has nothing to back them up. Memphis' problem is that we have a great balance of talent in depth but the team needs them all to be playing. That balance of depth was a blessing this year because of the number of injuries that the team suffered and the amount of time players were on the injuried reserve. Phoenix couldn't have couped with the injuries and been a potent team.


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## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

kingofkings said:


> I am never one to look back and ask what if in looking back on a previous NBA draft. But, in 2002 when West selected Gooden with number 4. The team at the time and still is, was in dire need of a power player/rebounder, inside player. Sure, West said he never had the time to scout, but lets look at it in a different way.Isn't West supposed to be one the best talent evaluators in recent history?.......



He selected the best player available at the pick. He took over in April and drafted in June. Stoudemire had some serious issues coming out of high school and if he had issues in the league whether it were with his play or with his personal life, he would not have had much trade value.

Gooden was a safe selection to test and trade if he didn't fit. But he not only didn't fit, he had issues and was traded by February. West cleaned up the selection with Miller and a first round draft pick. So when you consider West drafted Miller and got a replacement 1st round draft pick, when Stoudemire was a big gamble, he didn't do too bad. The bad is turning that pick into Troy Bell. That looks like a mistake.

So how long do you thing that Stoudemire will stay in Phoenix? Small market, if he is the next King of the NBA will be a Laker pretty soon because a King has to play in a major market. That's a fact. Shaq was important to the NBA in Orlando but to be the King he had to go to LA. What did Orlando get for their next King? Uh.... nothing.

As of 2002, the Grizzlies franchise was the worst in the history of the NBA. After two winning season and two playoff appearance that are way ahead of schedule, every one thinks that they should be title contenders because Jerry West is in charge. And if he had had a little more luck in the 2003 lottery and won the rights to Lebron James, the Grizzlies would probably be competing for the West title.

As much as they have improved in three years, it is exciting to consider how they can be in three more. The Grizzlies foundation is stronger right now than most NBA franchises (meaning about 15). Three years ago, it was the worst.

For what Jerry West hasn't do for Memphis, he has given us an NBA team that can be competetive for serveral years instead of a laughing stock of a team that moved to Memphis which led to the building of facilites that rates among the best in the NBA in Memphis. He wasn't put his eggs in too small of a basket meaning the franchise's assets are invested in several players vice two or three. A core group of players are developing playoff experience which he can add to by moving some assets to gain other assets that potentially fit better an push the franchise to further success. The organization has suffered many setback in past up to the recent past (like this season) with player injuries some of which have been career ending. Past management made decisions that limited the team's present by drafting Francis when he said that he didn't want to play for them and trading a future pick for an old PF (Otis Thorpe) that cost them a prize draft pick in their last losing season. The diversification of assets has been critical for the steady development of a quality franchise.

Now if you were expecting the Lakers, you have to compare us to the 1947 Lakers in Minny when "The first-year Minneapolis Lakers landed George Mikan strictly by chance" because Chicago American Gears folded and its players were reassigned. The Grizzlies franchise just isn't as lucky as the Lakers franchise has been.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

grizzhoops said:


> So how long do you thing that Stoudemire will stay in Phoenix? Small market, if he is the next King of the NBA will be a Laker pretty soon because a King has to play in a major market. That's a fact. Shaq was important to the NBA in Orlando but to be the King he had to go to LA. What did Orlando get for their next King? Uh.... nothing.


Amare has said, "Something's not broken, why fix it?" When asked about if he was gonna resign. Also heard we're gonna work on a long term deal after this yr which allows us to lock him up for a long time. So, I doubt he's going anywhere for the next 7 yrs.


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## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

How are the Sun's going to sign him for seven years when the union is acceptable to reducing the contract length to six. The owners want it to be reduced to four which means they'll probably meet at five. The money will be reduced as well. But endorsement opportunities will continue to be better in the major markets and he will never be a King of the NBA if he isn't an endorsement comodity. Shaq had a big role in Orlando but he moved to LA to get in a position to become the marketing monster that he is.

My point is that he will never be the next King of the NBA in Phoenix. He doesn't have a very good use of the english language like MJ did nor does he seem to have the wit of Shaq. There is a good chance that he is what he is.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

grizzhoops said:


> How are the Sun's going to sign him for seven years when the union is acceptable to reducing the contract length to six. The owners want it to be reduced to four which means they'll probably meet at five. The money will be reduced as well. But endorsement opportunities will continue to be better in the major markets and he will never be a King of the NBA if he isn't an endorsement comodity. Shaq had a big role in Orlando but he moved to LA to get in a position to become the marketing monster that he is.
> 
> My point is that he will never be the next King of the NBA in Phoenix. He doesn't have a very good use of the english language like MJ did nor does he seem to have the wit of Shaq. There is a good chance that he is what he is.


Ah, yeah I forgot about the CBA thing going on. But I get your point though. I think he could do it in Phoenix because of what we do. Doesn't mean he will though. If we keep doing what we're doing and actually win a title or titles than theres a big chance.


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## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

dissonance19 said:


> Ah, yeah I forgot about the CBA thing going on. But I get your point though. I think he could do it in Phoenix because of what we do. Doesn't mean he will though. If we keep doing what we're doing and actually win a title or titles than theres a big chance.


Anything is possible. I remember how going into that offseason that Shaq signed with LA, he sounded has if he was staying put. Things changed fast. Then realize that Lew Alcindor won a championship in Milwaukee in his rookie season and became Kareem Abdul Jabbar by his third season and demanded a trade to LA. The rest is history.

If Amare is that dominate , it will be hard to keep him in Phoenix. But if he likes the lifestyle in the smaller city enough to pass up on the money and the status, like Duncan has in San Antonio, he may stay. It hard to be the poster child of the NBA or king if you prefer in a small market.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

grizzhoops said:


> Anything is possible. I remember how going into that offseason that Shaq signed with LA, he sounded has if he was staying put. Things changed fast. Then realize that Lew Alcindor won a championship in Milwaukee in his rookie season and became Kareem Abdul Jabbar by his third season and demanded a trade to LA. The rest is history.
> 
> If Amare is that dominate , it will be hard to keep him in Phoenix. But if he likes the lifestyle in the smaller city enough to pass up on the money and the status, like Duncan has in San Antonio, he may stay. It hard to be the poster child of the NBA or king if you prefer in a small market.


Very true. Good points. KG is not in the biggest market himself and a lot ppl say he's the best and gets marketed well. But I guess it's moot with Amare cuz all signs are pointing towards Lebron James as the poster child for the NBA though. Which means he'd have to sign with a bigger market team himself.


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## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

dissonance19 said:


> Very true. Good points. KG is not in the biggest market himself and a lot ppl say he's the best and gets marketed well. But I guess it's moot with Amare cuz all signs are pointing towards Lebron James as the poster child for the NBA though. Which means he'd have to sign with a bigger market team himself.


The Suns may end up being lucky. He may not accept much influence from his family and he may be content being a big dog in a little city and getting all the love. Kids that grow up in tough situations can be greedy or they can be appreciative of living in a warm and comfortable environment. Amare seems like he could be contradiction, tough on the court with limitations in his communication skills but not a simple, down to earth guy in his personal life. He may not want to be the King of the NBA. He may be content with being a star in a small market. I only point this out to say that as you (please don't take any offense) proclaim him the next king of the NBA, it would not be in Phoenix's favor if that were his ambition. But if it not his ambition, he may end up staying in Phoenix. He won't be the next king, but you would keep you're star player. Good luck through the rest of the playoffs. I'll be rooting for Shaq because I want Kobe to eat all the dirt possible for his part in the Shaq leaving LA saga. A Phoenix - Miami final would be a good one to watch.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

Sorry does anyone have a video of Amare over Stromile?


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