# Allen Iverson: A silent chuckle for his vindication?



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

He and Marbury were used as scapegoats for why the 2004 USA team failed, and them not being on the team in 2006 was supposedly a step in the right direction of being unselfish and hard-working, etc. Straying away from the "thug" image that Iverson portrays (or that the league portrays him as, whichever you think fits best). They were labeled as ballhogs, not team players, great talents but ultimately don't fit the "team" concept. 

No Iverson, no Kobe, no Marbury, no Arenas. They're going Duke style and Phoenix Suns style, literally, with Coach K and D'Antoni. 

The team was built around the guys who have been hyped to all hell as the unselfish new generation. LeBron is so great because he has Jordan's ability as a scorer but would rather be Magic. Dwyane Wade is so great because unlike Kobe he can get along with Shaq. So unselfish. Paul is the unselfish "true" point guard. Brad Miller is a nice guy and is the "international" big man. Hinrich, Battier, Brand, etc. All blue collar guys. 

And at the end of the day, the player who was the best on the 2006 team was the guy who was labeled a cancer in 2004, and called a crybaby and so on. Maybe the "unselfish" angle is a little overdone as well as the "roleplayer" angle. 

Allen Iverson got his vindication, and I'm sure that he isn't too down in the dumps about Team USA losing after he wasn't even invited despite always being so willing to play for them.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

Who gives a ****?


Just win a damn gold medal for once. Jesus Christ.


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## ballistixxx (Jan 24, 2006)

almost all bbb.net members and all the articles I have read regarding the olympics was mad that Allen Iverson wasn't even invited.

AI isn't happy that team USA lost, I'm sure, he is an American and he said in countless interviews that he wished that team USA would win and get the gold, and I'm sure he meant what he said

you are right though, being selfish doesn't neccesrily mean that you are a cancer, and in AI, stephon, and Gil's case, I'm not sure that they should even be labeled as selfish... and being all unselfish doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be the best team out there


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

The season can't come soon enough, at least then we won't have to see anymore threads about Team USA not winning Gold medals.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Good read. 

I think this team lost because they never bought into the true team concept. Put this same group together for 2 months, whatever, they never took the correct approach. Some guys were playing like it was an all-star game. They reminded me of a noonball team. No real leader, just guys going one on one, taking turns. 

Everyone associated with that team should be disgusted with themselves. You don't lose with that kind of speed, with that kind of depth.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm still pissed AI wasn't even invited, and this team got what they deserved IMO. USA Basketball needs to stop worrying about Wheaties Boxes and get the best players over there. Ron Artest and maybe Sheed too.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Although they won the same medal this team was hands down better then 2004. One Loss versus 3 plus the margin of victory was much greater then in 2004. This team is on the right track compared to the mess of 2004: too bad the 2004 experience soured Duncan on playing for the national team again. He's the only player from 2004 that isn't on the current squad which is really needed.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> LeBron is so great because he has Jordan's ability as a scorer but would rather be Magic.


As much as I love LeBron, let me be the first to say he doesn't have Jordan's ability as a scorer (at least not yet).


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Great post, man. And hell yeah he's gotta be at least a little satisfied. I mean, the guy is only human and was partly blamed for their tough run. Like you said, he shouldered a lot of the blame. Part of him probably wanted USA to win it, while part of him wanted to revenge the unappreciation that he had felt. Still, even though it turned out like it did, I don't see how anyone can blame Team USA for trying a different direction.


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## Hiro! (Sep 10, 2006)

remy23 said:


> As much as I love LeBron, let me be the first to say he doesn't have Jordan's ability as a scorer (at least not yet).


i agree 100% no way is lebron in jordans league when it comes to scoring.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Hiro! said:


> i agree 100% no way is lebron in jordans league when it comes to scoring.


Yeah. I hope we weren't the only ones who collectively thought, "WTF are you talking about?" when seeing that line.


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## Hiro! (Sep 10, 2006)

there shouldnt be any vindication to begin with, that team composed of players as talented if not more talented than the current roster. the fact that AI led a team with duncan and a whole bunch of stars in it and yet still lost is vindicative enough in its own sense, further proof that attention should not be on team usa's failure, but rather the international competition evoolution and thus overachieved beyond everyones expectations.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The team we sent to Athens was really bad and I put a lot of the blame on LB personally.I thought AI played pretty well,but the reason he wasn't invited is that he doesn't really provide the best of anything as it relates to our national team.He's not the best fit as a primary scorer and he's nowhere near the best at distributing the basketball.Look at the 76ers and all the trouble they've had trying to build a team around Iverson.

Instead of making everyone else fit around Iverson they built a team around three young swingmen and it's hard to see how anyone who examines it logically could argue that they were wrong.None of the real structural problems we have would have been addressed by adding another player that needs to dominate the ball to be effective.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

wow. We're really fishing for threads on this, huh?

Next week do we get Richard Jefferson's vindication?

Like Pioneer said. Same medal, but world's better play, and two less losses. I don't think Iverson was the problem in 04. I think Larry Brown was.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Not Richard Jefferson, but Larry Brown is a good one. He got his vindication too. He took a load of the blame too from all the people who were screaming for LeBron, Wade and Melo to get more playing time. This 2006 team was built around those three, and didn't do any better under another hall of fame coach.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Sir Patchwork, coming into this thread I couldn't help but to think you are being somewhat sarcastic. At this point the whole vindication thing could go on forever because people have become to critical of this team and those involved and I believe this is your point. Add to that everyone seems to believe have all the answers. The alleged problems of this team have been all over the place from players who don't understand basketball, players being selfish, players being too young, having too many stars, poor coaching, etc. In my opinion, we just need to stand behind the players and those in position to build the team. I have faith in American Basketball and believe it will be back on top of the International scene sometime soon.


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## BucketDawg (Jun 30, 2006)

Great Points Ralaw, people are overreacting, this team was 8-1, 13-1 if you count their exhibitions, they played much better than the 2004 team, they lost one game to a great team who shot better than they had all tournament, both in the paint and the perimeter. While we also missed 14 free-throws and had trouble defending the pick-n-roll, high screen. These things happen in a one and done where your team isn't fully gelled offensively and defensively in a game slightly different to the one they play for at least 82 games of the year. Its like Roger Federer, he usually dominates everywhere because he is the best individual player, but he can have some trouble on clay courts in the French Open, which allows a player like Rafael Nadal, who is great in his own right but not quite a player like Federer, the advantage in such matches. FIBA basketball is no different, but in the end you can't make excuses, we just need to keep the team together for the most part and keep practicing on the clay courts, so to speak.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

totally agree with sir patchwork about time someone pointed this out


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

ralaw said:


> Sir Patchwork, coming into this thread I couldn't help but to think you are being somewhat sarcastic. At this point the whole vindication thing could go on forever because people have become to critical of this team and those involved and I believe this is your point.


My point is that the 2004 team was never given the same opportunity to succeed as the 2006 team, simply because the 2006 team is being given time to grow and develop together, and their expectations are naturally lower after another trip without a gold medal. They came away without the gold, and some people are actually calling this summer a success. The 2004 team had no choice but to win the gold. That's why it was blown up in such a hurry, and the blame game began so quickly. Iverson was the scapegoat among the players, and Larry Brown was the scapegoat among the coaches. Somehow, Duncan and Popovich were able to escape without any blame, despite Popovich being almost as active as Brown on the coaching staff, and Duncan struggling to adapt to FIBA rules more than Iverson.


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

I agree on the Duncan part, though in his defence you could argue that he didnt get the ball enough to get comfortable in fiba.

In 04 I thought Duncan would be enough to give USA the dominant frontcourt to complicate other teams, but he wasnt. In 06 it was almost like the US didnt have a frontcourt (i like brand but hes not good enough to do it himself). A lot of you yanks harp on about having more shooters, team play etc but I still think what separates the US from the rest of the world is the quality of your bigmen (for ex against argentina you guys got our frontcourt in foul trouble and that was it we have no subs, no country has the size and depth at pf and C that US has), and really thats whats been lacking the most in these past tournaments. Of course, bigmen are becoming rarer and rarer in the NBA and its really on the next generation of players to mature for the US to make that difference in rebounding, blocked shots, and post scoring that allows a team to dominate.


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## DKaiser (Jul 28, 2006)

maradro said:


> ...I still think what separates the US from the rest of the world is the quality of your bigmen (for ex against argentina you guys got our frontcourt in foul trouble and that was it we have no subs, no country has the size and depth at pf and C that US has), and really thats whats been lacking the most in these past tournaments.


First of all, dont forget, Argentinal showed the way for the rest of the world by beating NBA-selections twice. After that, everyone wanted a piece of the action. Hopefully, as players from that team in 2002 & Athens age (Manu and company), there'd be players who are just as good to take their place. 

Team USA can always field top quality players year after year...no matter which player retires. The rest of the world rely on players that may come along only once every 50 years. People like Nowitzki, Ginobili, Pau Gasol, Yao Ming, etc...they don't come around often.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

remy23 said:


> As much as I love LeBron, let me be the first to say he doesn't have Jordan's ability as a scorer (at least not yet).


NOTE also, Jordan would be lile Wilt back then if he played today. Nobody would've been able to lay a hand on him because nowadays you don't have to be scared of Bill Laimbeer or Dennis Rodman laying your *** on the floor.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Gotham2krazy said:


> NOTE also, Jordan would be lile Wilt back then if he played today. Nobody would've been able to lay a hand on him because nowadays you don't have to be scared of Bill Laimbeer or Dennis Rodman laying your *** on the floor.


Ron Artest broke body buider Jordan's ribs. He would have broken wee 80's Jordan's SPINE! Bruce Bowen would have given Jordan a ton of trouble because he has length, and he positions himself like Dumars used to.

Jordan's size and initial lack of jump shot would have been a probem. Look at DWade, he's built like a truck, but he still gets a ton of knocks.

Players today are so much bigger and so much more athetic, that Jordan's athleticism from back in the day wouldn't be near the advantage it was in the olden days. Can you imagine Jordan having to go against Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton? With the Wallace's lurking in the wings.

Jordan would have to change his game to Kobe's if he wanted to be like Wilt in today's game. Otherwise he'd be injured a lot.


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## DKaiser (Jul 28, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Ron Artest broke body buider Jordan's ribs. He would have broken wee 80's Jordan's SPINE! Bruce Bowen would have given Jordan a ton of trouble because he has length, and he positions himself like Dumars used to.
> 
> Jordan's size and initial lack of jump shot would have been a probem. Look at DWade, he's built like a truck, but he still gets a ton of knocks.
> 
> ...


Are you kidding me, Lebronze? You probably only saw MJ playing when he was 39 years old (the time Ron Artest broke his aging rib). But imagine at 40 years old, he still could score 40 points. He proved he could compete with the young guys even at age 40! Let's see Lebron or Kobe top that.

What do you mean "initial lack of jump shot"? Your Lebronze's jump shots doesn't even begin to compare with MJ's. Did you see that 63-point game he had against the fabled Boston Celtics (where Bird, McHale, & Parish were at their prime)? His jumpshots were "swish, swish, swish"! Lebronze's jump shots are all "kah-PLUNKS!" In fact, did you know that MJ first got noticed in his freshman year with North Carolina for hitting the winning jumper that won them the title? MJ's a winner throughout his career: he always got Gold medals (no Bronze for this guy) in the Olympics, 6 NBA titles, Rookie of the Year, countless MVPs, Slam Dunk king, Scoring champion, Defensive player of the year...even competed in a 3-point shootout contest....what has Lebronze accomplished with his boneheaded decision-making skills? Bronze, Bronze...and more Bronze medals to come.

Rip, Tayshaun, Sheed stopping MJ? No ****ing way! These guys can stop Lebron one on one but not MJ. Against Lebron, they need only to dare him to shoot jump shots. It's going to miss.


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

DKaiser said:


> First of all, dont forget, Argentinal showed the way for the rest of the world by beating NBA-selections twice. After that, everyone wanted a piece of the action. Hopefully, as players from that team in 2002 & Athens age (Manu and company), there'd be players who are just as good to take their place.
> 
> Team USA can always field top quality players year after year...no matter which player retires. The rest of the world rely on players that may come along only once every 50 years. People like Nowitzki, Ginobili, Pau Gasol, Yao Ming, etc...they don't come around often.


no argument there.. 

But my point is that what makes the US roster special compared to other countries is the bigmen. sure the trapezoid lane and zone makes it a more perimeter game, but no country can go more than 2 deep with quality bigmen, except for the US. In fact I will argue that the poor generation of bigmen is the main reason team USA became vulnerable, and if ever they are to become dominant again, it will be because amare, bosh, howard, oden or some subsequent generation develop very nicely, and not because of kobe/AI/vince/tmac/wade/lebron/etc


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