# Vin Baker strikes out!



## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

According to a buddy of mine who was watching FSNE,

Vin Baker has been suspended indefinitely for his third violation of the league's substance abuse policy.

Watch the papers as this breaks.


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

They just said it on Sportscenter too. Sad.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

I hear his contract is now *off* the books. Atleast 85% of it.


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## ace25one (Jan 4, 2004)

actualy it's because he failed to follow the guidlines that were in place between him and the celtics. He didn't fail any league substance abuse policy.


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=1716527


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

This could be very interesting. Does alcoholism permit an injury exception like the one that Orlando got a few years back for Grant Hill where most of his salary didn't count against the cap?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> The agreement between Baker and the Celtics reportedly is for only this season and has has a provision which permits the team to withhold half his $12.975 million annual salary for this second violation.


Half of Vin's salary is off the books. This is only his *2nd* violation.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> Half of Vin's salary is off the books. This is only his *2nd* violation.


I swear i heard 85% of his salary is taken off the books. ah you better hope it's true lol


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Welcome to arbitration.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

SAY IT ISN'T SO VINNY...SAY IT ISN'T SO.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> Half of Vin's salary is off the books. This is only his *2nd* violation.


That article says the owners don't have to pay him half his salary. It does not mention off the books. I don't think the players assosiation would let that happen.



I don't know who Wyc Grousbeck thinks he is kidding with his quote in that article. He doesn't care about Vin Bakers well being. He only cares about how much money he can make.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> I don't know who Wyc Grousbeck thinks he is kidding with his quote in that article. He doesn't care about Vin Bakers well being. He only cares about how much money he can make.


I don't think Vin Baker cares about Wyc Grosbeck's well being either. And if Vin didn't care about the money, he could always retire. Don't somehow twist this thing around to make it Grosbeck's fault. He is accountable to his partners too. Why should the Celtics pay Baker 13 million a year to get drunk?


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## HickFromFrenchLick (Jun 18, 2003)

this is nobody but Vins fault. The blame is squarely on him. Excuse my language but he **** on all the fans that stood by him and gave him standing ovations at the beginning of the year. Good bye Vin. You dont realize how good you had it. You played basketball for a living. Most would give their right arm to do that. You drank it away. I hope you get yourself straightened out but I don't want to ever see you put on that Celtics green. Too many have given too much to make it what it is. You don't deserve it.

No masking. ---agoo


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

Where did I blame Wyc for this? I didn't. What I said was Wyc Grousbeck is a two faced liar who says one thing and does the exact opposite behind the scenes. That makes him a hypocrite and if you are dumb enough to buy his BS concern then by all means be an idiot.

I hope none of you ever have any kind of problem with alcohol because you are all a bunch of insensitive %%%%s.





> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think Vin Baker cares about Wyc Grosbeck's well being either. And if Vin didn't care about the money, he could always retire. Don't somehow twist this thing around to make it Grosbeck's fault. He is accountable to his partners too. Why should the Celtics pay Baker 13 million a year to get drunk?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Poor Vinny*

This is a really sad story. Somtimes stuff like this happens to great people, not just the Lawrence Taylors of the world. I wish Vinny all the luck in the world, and I hope he gets his life on track now that his basketball career is essentially over.

So, does this mean that Kendrick Perkins is going active again?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Poor Vinny*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> This is a really sad story. Somtimes stuff like this happens to great people, not just the Lawrence Taylors of the world. I wish Vinny all the luck in the world, and I hope he gets his life on track now that his basketball career is essentially over.
> 
> So, does this mean that Kendrick Perkins is going active again?


He already is (Perkins).

It really does suck for Vinnie. I supported him all the time, and am very sad to hear this.

I hope he's gets a better chance to get his life back on track...I don't know if this will help the C's at all though.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> Where did I blame Wyc for this? I didn't. What I said was Wyc Grousbeck is a two faced liar who says one thing and does the exact opposite behind the scenes.


What are you talking about? Grousbeck hasn't lied about anything to my knowledge. Stop venting. You think Grousbeck is a liar, Ainge is a liar..... Oh please, spare us.


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## ZWW (Jan 17, 2004)

I was one of the guys that did actually support Vin and applauded his return in the beginning of the year when he was putting up pretty good numbers, so I'm really disappointed to see him get his 2nd strike and I'm not confident enough that he'll regain his respectability and be consistent enough to keep it.

I will say one thing positive, if it's true that half that money comes off the books or 85% or whatever that is without some B.S. rule screwing it up, then that's great. I want the Celtics to do better than Vin Baker. Sorry, but I want the whole to succeed more than the individual.


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## jbs (May 4, 2003)

The Globe says that this is the third strike and that the Celtics can terminate the contract after 10 games:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2004/01/24/baker_suspended_indefinitely/


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> Where did I blame Wyc for this? I didn't. What I said was Wyc Grousbeck is a two faced liar who says one thing and does the exact opposite behind the scenes. That makes him a hypocrite and if you are dumb enough to buy his BS concern then by all means be an idiot.
> 
> I hope none of you ever have any kind of problem with alcohol because you are all a bunch of insensitive %%%%s.


If that's how you feel, I hope the next time you meet an alcoholic on a bus or on the subway and he asks you for money, you give him 13 million dollars. Because if you don't, then YOU are the hypocrite.

All of us feel sympathy for Vin that he has failed to win his battle with alcoholism. But at the same time we recognize that there have to be consequences to your actions and if he is getting drunk, he does not deseve his 13 million dollar salary. I would feel sorry for any employee who fails a drug test because he is addicted to drugs, but that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't be fired for it.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

Its pretty hard to blame grousbek.. Man if i had someone under my employ making that money, it would be tough not to be relieved to have the whole thing over...


This is the third strike. Legal action will follow i am sure... This unique agreement the celtics have will most likely be challenged by the players association, and whether stern will let the salary not count against the cap is debatable..


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> If that's how you feel, I hope the next time you meet an alcoholic on a bus or on the subway and he asks you for money, you give him 13 million dollars. Because if you don't, then YOU are the hypocrite.
> ...








Nice post.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> Its pretty hard to blame grousbek.. Man if i had someone under my employ making that money, it would be tough not to be relieved to have the whole thing over...
> 
> 
> This is the third strike. Legal action will follow i am sure... This unique agreement the celtics have will most likely be challenged by the players association, and whether stern will let the salary not count against the cap is debatable..








AgreeD.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

LOL Try reading the article where Wyc Grousbeck makes comments about having sympathy for Vin's problems and since your such a big Celtics fan I would guess you saw him on the TV the other day saying Vin Baker is part of the Celtics family and they are doing everything they can do to help him but behind his back they are doing everything they can to rid themselves of this member of their family.

Here is the quote from the article. Yes the man is a liar because he doesn't care about Vin and what he is going through or he wouldn't be doing what he is doing trying to get rid of him.
He cares about how this makes him look period.

Celtics CEO Wyc Grousbeck said in the same statement. "As we have said throughout this process, we will continue to wish Vin the very best in his aftercare 

That makes Wyc Grousbeck a liar and since your such a fan of the Celtics I know you saw Wyc Grousbeck say that a few days ago before stike 2.
 :laugh: 






> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> What are you talking about? Grousbeck hasn't lied about anything to my knowledge. Stop venting. You think Grousbeck is a liar, Ainge is a liar..... Oh please, spare us.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm really bummed about this. Vinny's a really nice guy and he's actually got a brain, unlike a lot of athletes today. It's very sad that the DISEASE of alchoholism is ruining him right now. IT IS A DISEASE by the way for those who think he's just going out and ruining his life because he feels like it. I wish him all the best of luck and I hope soon a permanent healthy recovery, whether or not he's playing basketball.


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## ZWW (Jan 17, 2004)

One sad thing, the Player's Union won't go without a fight. They'll fight this one through and through and the Celtics might not get rid of that 36 million (or however much it is) for the next 2 1/2 years left on his contract. The Celtics would absolutely love to have this money off the books and they would need to prove that Vin really is in no shape to play. I see a slim chance of this happening though, unfortunately.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ZWW</b>!
> One sad thing, the Player's Union won't go without a fight. They'll fight this one through and through and the Celtics might not get rid of that 36 million (or however much it is) for the next 2 1/2 years left on his contract. The Celtics would absolutely love to have this money off the books and they would need to prove that Vin really is in no shape to play. I see a slim chance of this happening though, unfortunately.


How is that sad? They try to protect the players. That would be like "Hey KG want to take a 1 million contract instead of the 26 million we are paying you now? Even if you have 3 years remaining we'll remake your contract"

Its not a sad thing, its a reality thing. You have seen this in the MLB also, the player union or CBA or whatever its called want to protect their players.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> LOL Try reading the article where Wyc Grousbeck makes comments about having sympathy for Vin's problems and since your such a big Celtics fan I would guess you saw him on the TV the other day saying Vin Baker is part of the Celtics family and they are doing everything they can do to help him but behind his back they are doing everything they can to rid themselves of this member of their family.


Well of course. What's so strange about Grousbeck wanting Vinnie to overcome his alcoholism and liking him as a human being, while at the same time not wanting to pay him 36 Million dollars for doing nothing?

For the 1/2 season that Vinnie played last year-- and as everyone knows he stunk, because he was drinking-- he made about 6 1/2 Million dollars, which is considerably more money than 99.9% of all Americans make in their lifetime. Poor Vinnie.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> If that's how you feel, I hope the next time you meet an alcoholic on a bus or on the subway and he asks you for money, you give him 13 million dollars. Because if you don't, then YOU are the hypocrite.
> 
> All of us feel sympathy for Vin that he has failed to win his battle with alcoholism. But at the same time we recognize that there have to be consequences to your actions and if he is getting drunk, he does not deseve his 13 million dollar salary. I would feel sorry for any employee who fails a drug test because he is addicted to drugs, but that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't be fired for it.


I agree. We have to support him as a person but we have to do everything to terminate his contract. This is not some charity organization. We have to do what is best for this basketball club!


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> Well of course. What's so strange about Grousbeck wanting Vinnie to overcome his alcoholism and liking him as a human being, while at the same time not wanting to pay him 36 Million dollars for doing nothing?
> ...


and how exactly is it Vin Bakers fault you can't play basketball?
Give me a break. I don't care how much money Vin Baker makes I would never laugh at him for having a problem like this which is exactly what you virtually did with your last comments about him making so much money.
Don't you have any compassion for anyone?
Grousbeck lied. The fact that he calls Vin pasrt of the family and is trying to get rid of him (and has been) makes him a liar.
I don't know what kind of family you have but if you would kick your brother when he is down then that doesn't make you a great human being.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

My take on this is that the Celtics organization is not heartless for trying to get rid of Vin's contract. Vin Baker failed himself and the Celtics. He was given a second shot (and a third and fourth). Why should the Celtics pay for his mistakes by not being able to get someone to take his place? It's not like they're kicking Baker to the street like some homeless wino. Baker has the money and resources to rehabilitate himself and lead a good life in some capacity, even if it's not basketball. That money came from the Celtics and the other teams he's been on and indirectly from the fans. He has more options available to him than most other alcoholics. The Celtics can still help him, but that shouldn't mean they have to continue to pay his contract. He's not only failing to perform his job. He's preventing someone else from performing it for him. It's basically a double whammy. Terminating his contract does not necessarily mean turning your back on him. Right now, his focus should be getting healthy, and I'm sure he'll have all the support he needs if he chooses to accept it. The focus of the Celtics should be on building a winning team without Baker. If Baker recovers to the point where he can play basketball at the NBA level consistently, then he can negotiate a contract with an NBA team and actually earn the money.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

I admit that I have less compassion for millionaires, particularly those who remain millionaires by entering into contracts that they are unable to fulfull, and then hide behind the Players Association, the Americans with Disabilities Act and every other legal means of keeping the money flowing without doing a damn thing to earn it.

Vin Baker needs alcohol rehab. He should not be on an NBA basketball court. If I were Wyc Grosbeck, I would be happy to foot the bill for whatever medical and psychiatric care Vin requires, plus a nanny and a priest. But I would not be willing to pay him 13.5 million dollars annually for NOT playing basketball.

Go to your local homeless shelter and save some of your compassion for the people there, many of whom got that way because of some form of addiction and who can't afford Silver Hill or the Betty Ford clinic. Don't waste all of it on a guy who drinks his booze from a silver spoon.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

I have compassion for all kinds of people and I don't judge it on how much money they make, race, religon or creed. 

If Wyc wants to be a heel then let him but he shouldn't pretend to care for the media if he really doesn't. That just makes him a liar and fake.




> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> I admit that I have less compassion for millionaires, particularly those who remain millionaires by entering into contracts that they are unable to fulfull, and then hide behind the Players Association, the Americans with Disabilities Act and every other legal means of keeping the money flowing without doing a damn thing to earn it.
> 
> Vin Baker needs alcohol rehab. He should not be on an NBA basketball court. If I were Wyc Grosbeck, I would be happy to foot the bill for whatever medical and psychiatric care Vin requires, plus a nanny and a priest. But I would not be willing to pay him 13.5 million dollars annually for NOT playing basketball.
> ...


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## ZWW (Jan 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> How is that sad? They try to protect the players. That would be like "Hey KG want to take a 1 million contract instead of the 26 million we are paying you now? Even if you have 3 years remaining we'll remake your contract"
> ...


It's sad because the Celtics will have no shot at getting that money, and instead, large amounts will be going to a player not productive at all when it could be going to resigning players or signing key free-agents. Now that is sad.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> I admit that I have less compassion for millionaires


Me too. Which is why I want all the money to go to Vinnie....Wyc and his gang are billionares and they can't spend money to make this team competitive? But can raise the ticket prices?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ZWW</b>!
> 
> 
> It's sad because the Celtics will have no shot at getting that money, and instead, large amounts will be going to a player not productive at all when it could be going to resigning players or signing key free-agents. Now that is sad.


Its not sad, there's nothing sad. Even if we took out all of Vinny's money we still can't get a Walter McCarty for it. I couldn't give a crap if our new owners pay 30 million for Vinnie or 200 million for him either they'll still raise their ticket prices.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> Me too. Which is why I want all the money to go to Vinnie....Wyc and his gang are billionares and they can't spend money to make this team competitive? But can raise the ticket prices?


The luxury tax threshhold is what keeps the Celtics-- and every other team in the league-- from spending more money.

No one is asking me to have compassion for Wyc Grousbeck. If he were unable to fulfill his business responsibilities because of a drinking problem (or whatever), I'd want to see him fired, too.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> The luxury tax threshhold is what keeps the Celtics-- and every other team in the league-- from spending more money.
> ...


As far as I am concerned Wyc isn't doing his job. Everything he has done since he has been here from hiring Danny Ainge and introducing him in a press conference in the middle of a playoff series ("time to rebuild and turn this around"while we are fighting for a playoff series) to raising prices to these stupid trades has been bad. The only difference with Wyc and Vinny is Vin has a problem and Wyc is just stupid.

I want a takeover. We need to have new owners.
Bring back Paul Gaston. He might be responsible for Vin Baker being here but for a guy everyone said was cheap, He sure spent a lot more money on this team then Wyc has. Gaston hired Rick Pitino and gave him tonz of money when every NBA team wanted him. He resigned Walker without hesitation, he spent money to make money.


Wyc Grousbeck is a billionaire. He shouldn't be worrying about a luxery tax. You never here the Lakers owners or Mark Cuban not signing players because of the cap.


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

um...under Gaston we didn't even have a full roster because he was so cheap. Never forget the dark dark last days of his ownership. Time may heal all wounds, but Pitino should never be offered up as a positive under ANY circumstances


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bballin</b>!
> um...under Gaston we didn't even have a full roster because he was so cheap. Never forget the dark dark last days of his ownership. Time may heal all wounds, but Pitino should never be offered up as a positive under ANY circumstances


Yes he should.
In this case many teams wanted Pitino and Gaston got him.
Tim Duncan had a lot to do with that but Gaston still offered him the money which was like 50 million dollars.
Gaston spent money to make money.

Grousbeck has raised ticket prices and taken away every inch of chemistry this team had . (He had the right to void anything Ainge did but the fact remains he didn't)


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> Wyc Grousbeck is a billionaire. He shouldn't be worrying about a luxery tax. You never here the Lakers owners or Mark Cuban not signing players because of the cap.


Wyc Grosbeck is simply a managing partner of a consortium of venture capital firms that purchased the Celtics. He does not personally have a majority ownership interest, and his individual wealth is irrelevant.

His job is to manage their investment (the Celtics) as a business. His partners expect him to make money by increasing the value of their investment, and he is accountable to them-- not to the fans.

Don't get me started on Paul "Thanks Dad" Gaston.


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