# Infuriating Paxson quotes



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

I’m losing the love for this team.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...brite,1,1200670.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Paxson defending his (bad IMO) decision to blow up the team. 1-10 > 4-10 see… you fans just don’t understand.



> "We were [4-10] with a veteran team," Paxson said. "The signs of us getting better weren't good. We weren't playing hard. We were selfish."


I may have built one of the biggest stink bombs ever… but I’m right dammit!



> "[Chairman] Jerry [Reinsdorf] is giving us the opportunity to find a foundation that's solid," Paxson said. "I know fans want to see things turned around quickly. But my gut tells me we're doing things the right way."


You gotta go with your gut when you are trying to spin away a 1-10 season. The facts will kill you.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I read those quotes on the train this morning. I agree, he is sounding pretty pathetic. "But my gut tells me we're doing things the right way." Puh-leeeze.

No (more) Excuses.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

While I like what Pax has done in some instances, some of his recent comments border on mind boggling dumb. Its one thing to justify yourself on what has been a dropoff in competiveness, but to say we are actually better then last year is just preposterous. The buck has to stop somewhere. In Paxs case, he ought to take responsibility, and he hasnt. Its still Jalens, Jamals fault. And all the while, a loser like Skiles is the "right man for the job" while the team played clearly better under BC, who wasnt given much of a chance.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I think thats a hilarious quote. First off, the previous team WASN'T a veteran team, they had what? Rose and Marshall? Thats about it Vet wise. Secondly, that team, regardless of whether Paxson "liked them better" or not scored more points and held the opponent to less points. I seem to remember reading somewhere that that was the objective of basketball....


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Proud to be a member of the Fire Pax club.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

Right now even if I do want him fired, I just pity Pax (at least until the entourage of Pax supporters tell us how hard of a schedule we had last year and how Krause put Pax in this position, etc).


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Ex-Bull report: This is how bad things have gotten for the Bulls: New York is off to a 6-6 start, and Jamal Crawford feels like he's playing for the '72 Lakers compared to all the losing he experienced in Chicago. 

"When you lose like that the days seem longer," Crawford said in the New York Daily News. "Everything seems worse; the food doesn't taste as good. You have a lot of time to think. The whole city is like, 'What's going on.' I'm just glad I'm not there." 

The 6-foot-5 shooting guard is the Knicks' second-leading scorer at 17.8 points. He's shooting 40.7 percent from the field


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I will say this all year. Last years team was going no where anytime soon. Rose is a cancer, the team was soft, played with no heart what so ever, and as marshell and rose aged it was only going to get worse.

Paxson did not but last years team together so stop blaming him all the time. IMHO this team is going somewhere and after the allstar break i think we will see that. Last year we started out with a much easier schedule and looked like crap getting blown out and showing no effort what so ever. 


I will take this years team any day from the POS i had to watch last year.

david


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
> I will say this all year. Last years team was going no where anytime soon. Rose is a cancer, the team was soft, played with no heart what so ever, and as marshell and rose aged it was only going to get worse.
> 
> Paxson did not but last years team together so stop blaming him all the time. IMHO this team is going somewhere and after the allstar break i think we will see that. Last year we started out with a much easier schedule and looked like crap getting blown out and showing no effort what so ever.
> ...


This team is going somewhere.....1-12.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

I'm not a "Fire Paxson-Fire Skiles" guy. In fact, I like most of what Paxson has done.

This said, Paxson and Skiles would be well advised to avoid self-justification when their team is acknowledged as the worst team in the NBA. Until they start winning, all I want to hear from them is that they need to play better.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> "We were [4-10] with a veteran team," Paxson said. "The signs of us getting better weren't good. We weren't playing hard. We were selfish."



Wow !! Did he forget that this team had injuries that set the club back to start the season .

Rose missed most of the preseason 

Eddy missed almost the first week or two of camp with strained hammy 

Tyson missed games the first month with his bad back


Pip well was Pip he was never healthy to begin with 

Kirk missed first 2 weeks of the season 


Donyell,Pip,Gill,Rose,Blount,Erob were our veterans and we didnt have one game with our entire team healthy during that first month.

Wow he must realyl think we are stupid or something or maybe his comments are directed at the casual fans who dont actually follow the team when they are not at the games .


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Maybe I missed where last year's team was a "veteran team".

We had Rose and Marshall who were veterans.

Crawford would be considered a young player on any normal team. 

Chandler and Curry would be considered young player on any normal team.

Fizer was useless due to his injury.

Hinrich was a rookie.

Hassell would have been young but somewhat experienced and he was cut for Lint, who was completely without experience (and then uselessly let go despite the large (giving up Hassell, playing him all year) cost we gave up to get him and play him).

Gill and Pippen were guys who weren't "veterans" but over the hill geezers. 

Guys are are too old to play and still too young to say they have much experience are simply not veterans.

--

And yeah, enough of the excuse making from Paxson. Again, it's not that the players we have suck, it's that we should have known the quality of those players, and we should have better ones.


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## Ice Nine (Apr 3, 2004)

Actually the 2003-2004 Bulls were 4-7 after 11 games. Pax is just trying to cast his incompetence in a more favorable light. Fire him and offer the job to Pippen. I fail to see how a one-dimensional role player could be more qualified for the position than a floor general of a decade's worth of championship caliber teams.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
> I will say this all year. Last years team was going no where anytime soon. Rose is a cancer, the team was soft, played with no heart what so ever, and as marshell and rose aged it was only going to get worse.
> 
> Paxson did not but last years team together so stop blaming him all the time. IMHO this team is going somewhere and after the allstar break i think we will see that. Last year we started out with a much easier schedule and looked like crap getting blown out and showing no effort what so ever.
> ...


I pretty much agree with what he said. 

I think people are reading a bit too much into Paxson's quote by calling it pathetic excuses and whatnot. Whoever interviewed him probably asked something to effect of, how does this year's team compare to last year's team? And while last year's team wasn't veteran from top to bottom, we mostly relied on veterans Rose, Marshall, Gill, and Crawford (a young vet in his 4th year). And I'll say it again...the Bulls schedule at the start of last year could not have been much easier than it was, which is the ONLY reason they got 4 wins. And they were getting massacred by mediocre teams. I certainly agree with Paxson that last year's team showed absolutely ZERO signs of going anywhere. It wasn't just the fact that they were losing, it's how they were losing and to whom they were losing.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Mike, I can see where calling last year's team a veteran team is a bit far-fetched, and I can see where Paxson is making himself an easy target for criticism with these comments. But with all due respect, I really don't see what Paxson actually did to deserve all this criticism. He inherits a team that Krause built, tries to built around Krause's nucleus (while dealing with the loss of Jay Williams), and then realizes that the pieces Krause left him won't even make the playoffs in a weak Eastern Conference because they're getting killed by sub-par teams. There was not a single move Paxson COULD have made that would've turned the Bulls' season around, so he made the best moves available that would allow flexibility for the future. People are entitled to their opinions of course. But I just don't think it's fair to put all this blame on Paxson when you consider the position he was put in. I don't think even Jerry West could have turned this team into a winner in the time that Paxson has been here.



> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> Maybe I missed where last year's team was a "veteran team".
> 
> We had Rose and Marshall who were veterans.
> ...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

This is in every way Paxson's team.

He inherited no mess. He inherited twin towers who he claimed were the (direct quote) "cornerstones" of the franchise.

Every other player on this team is a guy Paxson traded for or drafted.

The record speaks for itself.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ice Nine</b>!
> Actually the 2003-2004 Bulls were 4-7 after 11 games. Pax is just trying to cast his incompetence in a more favorable light. Fire him and offer the job to Pippen. I fail to see how a one-dimensional role player could be more qualified for the position than a floor general of a decade's worth of championship caliber teams.


Right or wrong, I don't think Pax is going anywhere right now. However, if we were going to bring in somebody new, what is it about Pippen that indicates that he's got the requisite tools for the job?


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> This is in every way Paxson's team.
> 
> He inherited no mess. He inherited twin towers who he claimed were the (direct quote) "cornerstones" of the franchise.
> ...


5 rookies and a second year player.

This team is fighting games like no other bulls team in it's rookie season ever did.

They won a game on the circus trip.

HEy my patience has ran out too,you know,but these guys will be playing like veterans next year.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>unBULLievable</b>!
> HEy my patience has ran out too,you know,but these guys will be playing like veterans next year.


For what team?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> 
> 
> Right or wrong, I don't think Pax is going anywhere right now. However, if we were going to bring in somebody new, what is it about Pippen that indicates that he's got the requisite tools for the job?


What is it about Larry Bird that indicates he's got the requisite tools for the job?


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> For what team?


:laugh:


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>unBULLievable</b>!
> 
> 
> 5 rookies and a second year player.
> ...


You nailed it right on the head.

This is without a doubt the best collection of rookies and young players that a Bulls team has had in a long long time. It's still not going to lead to the playoffs yet, but just having this collection of talent can and will lead somewhere eventually. The Clippers are a great example of keeping a young nucleus together and letting them grow. Jaric, Brand, Maggette, and Wilcox obviously have formed a strong team-oriented bond. This Bulls team has had a nightmare of a schedule to start the season, so you can throw their record out the window. I'll keep saying this all season: Wait until the 2nd half. Not only does the schedule lighten up, but they will be playing some good basketball.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

News flash

The NBA isn't going to throw the Bulls' record out the window.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yodurk</b>!
> 
> 
> You nailed it right on the head.
> ...


How can you say this? Have you forgotten Artest and Brand?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> How can you say this? Have you forgotten Artest and Brand?


Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> For what team?


In case you haven't noticed DaBullz, Paxson has only been trading Krause's players (JYD the lone exception b/c he's garbage). The guys that Paxson have brought to this team look like keepers to me. For better or worse, Paxson will follow through with his plan, even if it does get him fired. I think it's best to let his plan play out instead of ending it prematurely and starting all over again. 

And I can't understand how you can say that Paxson didn't inherit a mess. Two years ago, just about everything went right that could go right, and they still only ended up with 30 wins. The minute injuries took effect and when guys were coming to camp out of shape was when things REALLY started to fall apart.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> News flash
> 
> The NBA isn't going to throw the Bulls' record out the window.


You obviously missed my point.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> How can you say this? Have you forgotten Artest and Brand?


Depth-wise, you're talking about a nucleus of Duhon, Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni, and Chandler, and maybe Curry is he isn't traded. 

Brand was better individually than any of these guys of course, and Artest was somewhere in the middle. But who else was there? Khalid El-Amin? AJ Guyton? Two good young players isn't exaclty a good young nucleus. That's all I meant by that. Hope that clears this up.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yodurk</b>!
> 
> 
> Depth-wise, you're talking about a nucleus of Duhon, Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni, and Chandler, and maybe Curry is he isn't traded.
> ...


hmmm Brad Miller, allstar center for one. Artest in the middle? Are you kidding? The guy was SECOND TEAM ALL NBA LAST YEAR. So according to you, 3 of the 7 you mentioned will be ALL NBA SECOND TEAM or better? 

Its easy to blame Krause for everything. heck, the Israeli-Palestine conflict, blame it on Krause. But he had this team up 50% in wins before being shown the door. And the players played better then they had at any time during the Skiles/Pax era, and they were improving. That just cant be denied. This is Paxs teams. Period. And right now, he needs to be a man and take responsibility for this mess. Remember, he did promise the playoffs THIS YEAR, to season ticket holders. And he should be held up to that promise. Krause certainly would have


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yodurk</b>!
> 
> And I can't understand how you can say that Paxson didn't inherit a mess. Two years ago, just about everything went right that could go right, and they still only ended up with 30 wins. The minute injuries took effect and when guys were coming to camp out of shape was when things REALLY started to fall apart.



Paxson inherited a team on the upswing and has turned into a pile of charred rubble.

Crawford is playing great for the Knicks, as expected, and Rose and Marshall are solid for the Raptors. Not great, but solid.

Hinrich and Gordon are not the type of players to lead us to the promised land.... and these are the guys that Paxson loves.

You take way the towers from this team and it has nothing but marginal NBA talent IMO... except for Deng and perhaps Gordon.

And we only have 1 pick in the next two seasons.

The record speaks for itself.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yodurk</b>!
> 
> 
> Depth-wise, you're talking about a nucleus of Duhon, Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni, and Chandler, and maybe Curry is he isn't traded.
> ...


at one time the bulls had curry chandler , crawford artest , fizer , and a 25 year old brad miller all on the roster at the same time .(they started the 2001-2002 season with this group)

the bottom line extreme youth doesn't win no matter how talented .


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Makes me wonder if Yodurk even followed the team back then.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yodurk</b>!
> Mike, I can see where calling last year's team a veteran team is a bit far-fetched, and I can see where Paxson is making himself an easy target for criticism with these comments. But with all due respect, I really don't see what Paxson actually did to deserve all this criticism. He inherits a team that Krause built, tries to built around Krause's nucleus (while dealing with the loss of Jay Williams), and then realizes that the pieces Krause left him won't even make the playoffs in a weak Eastern Conference because they're getting killed by sub-par teams. There was not a single move Paxson COULD have made that would've turned the Bulls' season around, so he made the best moves available that would allow flexibility for the future. People are entitled to their opinions of course. But I just don't think it's fair to put all this blame on Paxson when you consider the position he was put in. I don't think even Jerry West could have turned this team into a winner in the time that Paxson has been here.


Well, I don't think he had an easy job, but two summers in I think it's pretty unfair to say Pax got a raw deal. If he acted as if he had a raw deal, then that's fine and I'd give him more credit and more time. But last summer and this summer too he acted as if he got a pot of gold instead of pot of spoiled fish in terms of Curry and Chandler. He had the chance to clean house and get rid of the problems as he saw them. *By keeping them around, he took responsibility for them.* If you're going to say that those two kids are mistakes on Krause's part, they mistakes on Paxson's part too. If you're going to say that they've been lazy bums and that's why they're not as good as they could be, then it's their fault, but it's also Paxson's fault for thinking or hoping they'd get it when they were lazy bums.

I'm not at all saying it's all Paxson's fault, but to hear the way some guys are talking it's like he just walked into this job yesterday. He didn't, and his fingerprints are on this mess as much as anyone else's.

That's somewhat true of Rose as well- he got rid of him, perhaps at the first opportunity (though I doubt it), but up till the point he got rid of him he did nothing to pave the way for the void we'd face when he left (like getting a guy in here that summer who didn't play basketball on the playground with Methuselah).


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously a player like Deng will improve greatly. But I dont see much room for growth in the other young players unless a new coach and philosophy are brought in. This is a great post that captures the essence of the problem. And while I am it, let me say Id rather have Rose and Marshall then AD, who is just a complete zero, and JYD


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> hmmm Brad Miller, allstar center for one. Artest in the middle? Are you kidding? The guy was SECOND TEAM ALL NBA LAST YEAR. So according to you, 3 of the 7 you mentioned will be ALL NBA SECOND TEAM or better?
> ...


Whoa, hold on a sec there...we're talking about the Bulls young nucleus from like 4 years ago, right? Artest was a 12 ppg, 4 rpg guy. Brad Miller was getting like 9 ppg, 7 rpg. Brand was still getting his 20 and 10, but who else was there? At the time, these guys were not viewed as future stars, save Brand.


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## Ice Nine (Apr 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> 
> 
> Right or wrong, I don't think Pax is going anywhere right now. However, if we were going to bring in somebody new, what is it about Pippen that indicates that he's got the requisite tools for the job?


An NBA general manager's job is to find talent and ensure that talent is compatible with his team.

Pippen is widely considered to be one of, if not the most, versatile players in NBA history. I'd go so far as to say that his game's only weakness was an average jumpshot. This diversity would enable him to recognize talent across the entire basketball spectrum.

And his ability to run offenses would ensure that whatever talent he did select would mesh with the team. One doesn't play chess at such a high level without intimately learning the nuances and interactions of all the pieces.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Makes me wonder if Yodurk even followed the team back then.


I think he's fundamentally right.

The Chandler, Curry, Fizer, Miller, Artest, Crawford, Mercer team was maybe better in terms of pure talent (depending on how you rate Chandler and Curry), but it's hard to see what would have happened with Artest. It was sabotaged by too much inexperience.

The Brand/Artest/Fizer/Crawford/Miller team was maybe better but sabotaged by playing with garbage players (El-Amin, sawdust, Drew) and inexperience.

The current team might compare with those guys, I like Deng and Gordon's potential, Hinrich is solid, and in the right situation the other guys could be good. I just don't think this is the right situation, and fundamentally we have too much inexperience (again).

Comparing us to the Clippers teams, the Clips always had more experience and a better blend of guys than we had or have.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Makes me wonder if Yodurk even followed the team back then.


What's with the hate all of a sudden? I've watched the Bulls every chance I get over the past 8 years. All I said is that our current young core is an improvement over the young cores of the past. I don't don't dish the hate, and when I'm being disrespected then I just won't post, period. I'd like to think my own perceptions are a breath of fresh air from all the negative criticism that's so prominent on this board.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yodurk</b>!
> 
> 
> What's with the hate all of a sudden? I've watched the Bulls every chance I get over the past 8 years. All I said is that our current young core is an improvement over the young cores of the past. I don't don't dish the hate, and when I'm being disrespected then I just won't post, period. I'd like to think my own perceptions are a breath of fresh air from all the negative criticism that's so prominent on this board.



Hey man, it's not hate at all. But when you make a statement that this is "the best collection of rookies and young players that this bulls team has had in a long time" I have to question whether you watched them back then or not. IMO the team with Artest, Brand, Crawford, Curry, and Chandler had far more going than the group we have in now. Just because they weren't all stars with the Bulls early on doesn't mean that we couldn't predict future sucess for them. In fact, I wouldbe the first one to say that we screwed the pooch when we gave up too soon and traded for Rose. We shoulda hung on and let em develop and gel, now we will be waiting 2-3 years for this team to develop and gel or someone will get impatient and pull teh trigger and we will start all over again.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> What is it about Larry Bird that indicates he's got the requisite tools for the job?


Ice Nine gave me the answer I was looking for. Thanks for taking ten seconds out of your time to snipe at me. 

I don't have any opinion as to whether or not Pip would be a good GM. I don't know if being a great player translates to that, though it has in some situations. 

By the way, Larry Bird had been the head coach for the Pacers. Therefore, you could argue that he is different from the Pippen situation.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Pax's quote's have been called funny , infuriating and such , I have a different word.

Expected.

Does anyone honestly think he thought the season was going to be so much different than what we have seen?

Does anyone honestly think he has any choice to say other than what he said ?

Is he going to say the truth ? Say something like this.

"Um yeah i realize this team may win less than last year's team which won less than the team i inherited, so yeah I screwed up if you are going to use that as a determiner of success and failure, but my new plan is simply to tank the next 2 years save up cap space probably overpay 2 free agents and have a team sans curry and chandler completely in my own image, and I'll take my chances with that and see how good it is." 

Can you honestly see him saying something like that?

without at least 1 or 2 cap saving move to make us free agent players next off season , next season will be just as bad if not worse, because next season the players will know they have no chance before the season starts , on a team of 6 rookies and 12 of the 15 player 24 or younger what do they really know now other than the nba is alot tougher than they thought it was going to be? 

there wont be any free agent help in the form of an MLE deal or a vet exception deal for more than a season.

so the future is going to be bad , so pax imo hatched a plan to try to put as much spin on this as possible , use scapegoating on players who aren't even here anymore for our current state as a team, when of course they aren't here to defend themselves, and of course when they get wind of it we'll hear more of the how playing for the bulls organization is not nearly as good as their current organization, and of course by that time people forgot about what set them off on management in the 1st place.

sure the other team may have been at times selfish but they had more wins , despite their star player having a broken hand, the main free agent pyhsically fell apart only moments after signing his deal, the prize rookie looking emaciated because of lost weight and coming off the IL because of a virus infection. the whole lot of them came in unprepared out of shape and unmotivated.

and yet through it all they were better ...kind of makes you wonder the sense of tearing that team apart instead of just trying to make THAT team better , but thats too easy and logical.

why be logical when you can be egotistical and blame others for your own mistakes?

not only is this kind of talk from paxson expected i doubt it will be the only time we hear it.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>unBULLievable</b>!
> 
> 
> 5 rookies and a second year player.
> ...



Yeah right I have watched just about every game the last 20 years and this team is no different than any of 6 years teams and whats so back is this team is actually healthy while several of those other teams had multiple injuires to key personnel.

99-00 team which was Brands rookie year fought hard and were in most of the games the yplayed but they just couldnt get it done down the stretch .

For the record we beat Utah IN UTAH last year but someohow because we beat them in Nov this year its supposed to be some sort of achievment ?My how far we have fallen :no: 

The spin is running thick on the crap Pax has put on the floor.


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## Ice Nine (Apr 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> without at least 1 or 2 cap saving move to make us free agent players next off season , next season will be just as bad if not worse, because next season the players will know they have no chance before the season starts , on a team of 6 rookies and 12 of the 15 player 24 or younger what do they really know now other than the nba is alot tougher than they thought it was going to be?
> 
> there wont be any free agent help in the form of an MLE deal or a vet exception deal for more than a season.


This upcoming offseason won't be that bad for Chicago, if my understanding of the salary cap is correct. Check out their current *financial situation*. Pippen's $5 million, Curry's $4 million, Chandler's $5 million, Othella's $3 million, and Trybanski's $2 million will all be coming off the books. That's $19 million to spend on free agents.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ice Nine</b>!
> 
> This upcoming offseason won't be that bad for Chicago, if my understanding of the salary cap is correct. Check out their current *financial situation*. Pippen's $5 million, Curry's $4 million, Chandler's $5 million, Othella's $3 million, and Trybanski's $2 million will all be coming off the books. That's $19 million to spend on free agents.


Yeah assuming you let Chandler and Curry walk for nothing which wouldn't be very bright.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ice Nine</b>!
> 
> This upcoming offseason won't be that bad for Chicago, if my understanding of the salary cap is correct. Check out their current *financial situation*. Pippen's $5 million, Curry's $4 million, Chandler's $5 million, Othella's $3 million, and Trybanski's $2 million will all be coming off the books. That's $19 million to spend on free agents.


For that top happen they would have to renounce the rights to Curry and Chandler making them unrestricted free agents .Thats not likely to happen imo.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ice Nine</b>!
> 
> This upcoming offseason won't be that bad for Chicago, if my understanding of the salary cap is correct. Check out their current *financial situation*. Pippen's $5 million, Curry's $4 million, Chandler's $5 million, Othella's $3 million, and Trybanski's $2 million will all be coming off the books. That's $19 million to spend on free agents.


pip's, othella's and trybanski's deals come off the cap 

e-rob's buyout figure doesn't , tyson and curry's come off only if the trade them for ending deals, renounce them .

so that 10 mil.

and not at all a significant amount below the cap.

the MLE is bigger.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*and Rose and Marshall are solid for the Raptors. Not great, but solid.*

Solid on a sub-500 team. They are 6-9, yes. But they have lost 8 of the last 10 games. Chances are, with them here, we would not be much better than we are now, if at all. We have lost 9 of the last 10 games.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> *and Rose and Marshall are solid for the Raptors. Not great, but solid.*
> ...


Donyell has missed most of the games during that rough stretch , he has only played 7 games this season.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I can understand everyones frustration. But what gets me is JK had the helm for 4 years or was it five? There was not such an uproar as their is now with the team John is trying to put together. We had a losing streak to start the season, sure we did. But everyone here knows darn well all of the teams the last 6 years had longer losing streaks than we did to start the season. Where were all of the posters then? Some of those teams had Rose on them. And Rose has played for Toronto and they too have had mulitple game losing streaks that goes on up there. In the past the excuse is, "we are young." Well guess what? This team is younger than most teams we have fielded in the past. The team of Voskuhl, Curry, Chandler, el-amin, Drew Brand and Artest comes close to this team in age. How many wins did that team get?

I am willing to give John longer. Am I happy with his team so far? No. But obviously he is not done with it. 

Only five players are with this team that was with them last year and Pargo could acutally be left out of that group to make it 4. He was with the team for just a handful of games. 

I like the way the team plays. Hard. They also lead the league in forced turnovers which is another sign they play hard. That could not be said about our teams in the past few years. 

I can see the logic to some of John's criticism, but come on! Look at what he inherited. The team was going backwards. And yes last years team could be considered, veteran. Three years for Chandler, curry, Crawford, fizer. We had Gill, Blount, Rose, Marshall, Baxter(2), Pippen. Hinrich was the lone rookie that actually played. Linton Johnston made the team and later on we added Dupree and Shirley. True, with the trade we added AD and JYD. The 4-12 team was a veteran team that had just won 30 games the year before that. We were being out scored by almost as much as we are now and the players were waaayyy more experienced. I don't blame John for breaking up the team. 

This year, Piatowski, Griffin, Curry, chandler, Hinrich, Pargo, Harrington, and Williams. We have five rookies playing major minutes and just trying to learn each other. Smith is another rookie that made the team and Reiner is too. 7 rookies on the roster. 1/2 of the team. Yet in the past, we had the attitude, "too young, lets give them a chance." Now, everyone wants John's head for the same reason. He helped with the financial burden and has fielded a team that has talent. They need to play together for a while. 

With this reasoning, JK should have been gone year two of the breakup, yet some of the people blasting JP were defending JK to the bitter end. 

I am not for giving John years to do something. But I am willing to give him a chance. He still has JK, underachievers on the team. Let's see if they either catch fire, finally or are traded by deadline.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> Donyell has missed most of the games during that rough stretch , he has only played 7 games this season.


Well then how can it be said that Marshall and Rose are playing well for them if Marshall has missed 7 games? They have veteran help without Marshall. 

With Marshall out, they beat SA and NY. But lost like 6 in a row on the west coast trip.


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## atlbull (Feb 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> I can understand everyones frustration. But what gets me is JK had the helm for 4 years or was it five? There was not such an uproar as their is now with the team John is trying to put together. We had a losing streak to start the season, sure we did. But everyone here knows darn well all of the teams the last 6 years had longer losing streaks than we did to start the season. Where were all of the posters then? Some of those teams had Rose on them. And Rose has played for Toronto and they too have had mulitple game losing streaks that goes on up there. In the past the excuse is, "we are young." Well guess what? This team is younger than most teams we have fielded in the past. The team of Voskuhl, Curry, Chandler, el-amin, Drew Brand and Artest comes close to this team in age. How many wins did that team get?
> 
> I am willing to give John longer. Am I happy with his team so far? No. But obviously he is not done with it.
> ...


good post Troublefan. I agree this team needs more time to gel. I think we all learned from the Olympics that talent alone doesn't win games that team chemistry and players knowing their roles also has to do a lot with winning. Let these guys get the feel for each other's habits, tendencies and find their roles on the team.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> I can understand everyones frustration. But what gets me is JK had the helm for 4 years or was it five? There was not such an uproar as their is now with the team John is trying to put together. We had a losing streak to start the season, sure we did. But everyone here knows darn well all of the teams the last 6 years had longer losing streaks than we did to start the season. Where were all of the posters then? Some of those teams had Rose on them. And Rose has played for Toronto and they too have had mulitple game losing streaks that goes on up there. In the past the excuse is, "we are young." Well guess what? This team is younger than most teams we have fielded in the past. The team of Voskuhl, Curry, Chandler, el-amin, Drew Brand and Artest comes close to this team in age. How many wins did that team get?
> 
> I am willing to give John longer. Am I happy with his team so far? No. But obviously he is not done with it.
> ...


I think its because most understood some of the madness behind JK actions but as the years have gone on so many are starting to see that its the puppet master and not the puppet who is generally to blame .We all know its the ownership but many are holding out hope that it was the players fault or the coaches or the gm's .

Imo JP has sold the owners who had already fallen behind the times this notion that the Bulls will somehow rid the nba of the "element" and be some shining example for other franchises to follow .The only problem is that they forgot that you must actually WIN GAMES to achive that.

Also most here understood fully what JK wante to do while Pax seems to have a mindset of he doesnt like that way the game of basketball is heading and hes gonna use his position with the Bulls to try and influence that with little regard for trying to win games .Well most of us have taken our lumps the last 6 years and all we want are wins it dont matter how he does he just needs to get him.

I cant tell you right now that if anyone though Pax was taking over for Jk to start over all hell wouldve broken loose.

I would like to add that no bulls team in over 30 years started 0-9 and last years team was injury rittled right from start and JP's prize fa addition could barely play more than 20 minutes and he was supposed to fill our weakest position. the makeup of that team was a direct result of moves JP did and did not make .

Exchanging hassell and Hoiberg for Lynton and RMJ 

signing Pip over a Posey 

also lets not forget 

Currys hamstring in October 

jalens hand injury 

Tysons back 

Pips leg 

It wqas basically last year this time when he pulled the trigger so how was it ok to evaluate last eyars team in this amount of time with all the issues they had going on but too soon to tell on this years team when they have had no issues .

last year in November we had a tough start but we lost close games to the twolves,Sea and the Nuggets befoe heading out on the trip and Pax ruins any chance at the team gelling by allowing Bc's firing rumors and jalens trade rumors to surface.Yes it was two weeks into the season and we were alread ytalking tradeds and firing the coach . We then played the lakers close til Kobe took over in the last 3 minutes ,played the spurs tight throughout and mounted a furious comeback against the Kings with all types of controversy swirling .

Its crazy how so much stuff that Pax controlled went bad and how the players are taking the blame for it.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> 
> I think its because most understood some of the madness behind JK actions but as the years have gone on so many are starting to see that its the puppet master and not the puppet who is generally to blame .We all know its the ownership but many are holding out hope that it was the players fault or the coaches or the gm's .
> ...


Now thats a great post!


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> I can understand everyones frustration. But what gets me is JK had the helm for 4 years or was it five? There was not such an uproar as their is now with the team John is trying to put together. We had a losing streak to start the season, sure we did. But everyone here knows darn well all of the teams the last 6 years had longer losing streaks than we did to start the season. Where were all of the posters then? Some of those teams had Rose on them. And Rose has played for Toronto and they too have had mulitple game losing streaks that goes on up there. In the past the excuse is, "we are young." Well guess what? This team is younger than most teams we have fielded in the past. The team of Voskuhl, Curry, Chandler, el-amin, Drew Brand and Artest comes close to this team in age. How many wins did that team get?
> 
> I am willing to give John longer. Am I happy with his team so far? No. But obviously he is not done with it.
> ...


Amen! Kudos for a great post.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Here is a question, if Pax misses that 3 in Phoenix, would he even be the GM? And if so, does making that 3 still qualify him for this job?


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> The spin is running thick on the crap Pax has put on the floor.


This is a vicious allegation, which I completely deny!

I had no involvement, or no recollection of involvement, with this collection of crap.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Here is a question, if Pax misses that 3 in Phoenix, would he even be the GM? And if so, does making that 3 still qualify him for this job?


First question: probably. I'll personally remember Pax more for his raining down jumpers in the 4th quarter of Game 5 in 1991 than the Phoenix shot (great as it was). 

Second question: of course not.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Here is a question, if Pax misses that 3 in Phoenix, would he even be the GM? And if so, does making that 3 still qualify him for this job?


OT: That Phoenix game was on ESPN Classic over the weekend. Haven't watched that game in a long time. Its easy to forget that Thunder Dan, Sir Charles and company really gave us a run for the money. "Paxson for THREE!" is still one of the great sports moments in my life.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled griping, already in progress.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Sorry but the real spinster is KC Johnson. for constant liberal paraphrasing and showing them as quotes as well as picking and choosing which quotes to use.


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## Ice Nine (Apr 3, 2004)

Ok, my understanding of the salary cap was incorrect. The Bulls can't afford anyone decent this offseason. And the free agent class of 2006 looks awful. Can't the Bulls trade Davis and his $14 million expiring contract & Robinson and his $5 million expiring contract for some not-so-bad players this offseason?


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

he shoulda said something like its mainly my fault but the young guys have got to step things up.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jollyoscars</b>!
> he shoulda said something like its mainly my fault but the young guys have got to step things up.


he did say that.



> They [the young guys] have to go out and, between the lines, take what's being taught and apply it. That doesn't happen easily especially when you have such a young group.....Well we were 4-12 with a veteran team really last year, and we were...the signs of us getting any better at that point weren't very good. We weren't playing hard, we had a lot of selfishness among that group, and that's something that I will not live with. We're 1-10 and we're a young basketball team.


notice he said 4-12 and not 4-10.

the video package CSN put out was funny. when pax said we weren't playing hard, they showed Pip and Rose laughing it up on the bench with Rose wearing Jay Will's jersey on top of his warmups . and when he said selfishness, they showed Fizer hitting a layup :laugh:


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> I can understand everyones frustration. But what gets me is JK had the helm for 4 years or was it five? There was not such an uproar as their is now with the team John is trying to put together. We had a losing streak to start the season, sure we did. But everyone here knows darn well all of the teams the last 6 years had longer losing streaks than we did to start the season. Where were all of the posters then? Some of those teams had Rose on them. And Rose has played for Toronto and they too have had mulitple game losing streaks that goes on up there. In the past the excuse is, "we are young." Well guess what? This team is younger than most teams we have fielded in the past. The team of Voskuhl, Curry, Chandler, el-amin, Drew Brand and Artest comes close to this team in age. How many wins did that team get?


The team with Rose and Marshall is better than ours. The Raptors are close to being a playoff team. Crawford is playing very well for a playoff team. That is what Paxson inherited. He inherited 3 above average NBA basketball players and turned them into nothing.

The people that support Pax vehemently fall into 2 camps, IMO, and sometimes both.

1.) Krause haters.
2.) AND1 haters (aka "right way enthusiasts").

Fine, if you want to go young, you need to have an environment where they can develop. Getting your head bashed in losing isn't it. 5 early 20s guys with no NBA big game experience does not help. This team was destined to fail. Now they have the justification they need to not pay the towers. The team is losing... why would we pay them? Cycle repeats.



> I am willing to give John longer. Am I happy with his team so far? No. But obviously he is not done with it.


What can he do with it? 1 draft pick? Lure a "full boat" FA to the worst team in the league? I'm sorry, I just don't see a way out. Maybe we can get a Mercer/EROB type to take more money then they would get elsewhere... but that’s about it.



> I like the way the team plays. Hard. They also lead the league in forced turnovers which is another sign they play hard. That could not be said about our teams in the past few years.


That's nice... I agree. But losses are losses. I was driving around at lunch and I heard on the sports radio report skiles being interviewed. He said something like.

"This is a fun team. These are good guys to have in practice. The wins are just not there."

Well that's great PaxSkiles. You have some fellas that you like hanging around with and will dive when you blow the whistle. Too bad its the worst team in the NBA.



> I don't blame John for breaking up the team.


And that's where I disagree 100%. Most Pax supporters seem to agree with you.

John decided to create the worst team in basketball by breaking up the team. And for what? What do we have? Few here want to pay the towers any $$$... and its a tough call, i agree. Let's say both of them are gone. Hinrich? I like the kid... but he's an average player at this point. Gordon? Deng is good... but we need some bigs.





> With this reasoning, JK should have been gone year two of the breakup, yet some of the people blasting JP were defending JK to the bitter end.
> 
> I am not for giving John years to do something. But I am willing to give him a chance. He still has JK, underachievers on the team. Let's see if they either catch fire, finally or are traded by deadline.


JK underachievers are leading the Knicks to the playoffs, making all star games and all-NBA teams. Come on man. You think Hinrich will ever be able to do this? I don't. Gordon. Does not look good. Deng maybe. 

At least JK had a vision. He had a plan. The first one failed. The 2nd one was on an upward trend before Paxson blew it up.

What is Paxson's plan? What is his vision? The "right way?" That's crap IMO and doomed to fail. Its not a viable way to build an NBA basketball team. That's my main issue with the team. 

The future looks bleak to me.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Well then how can it be said that Marshall and Rose are playing well for them if Marshall has missed 7 games? They have veteran help without Marshall.
> ...


They are 6-9 and 1 game out of the playoffs. When they step on the court, their fans can believe they have a chance to win.

You can break it up into 3,4 or 5 game subsets if you want.. the fact is that they are a viable NBA team... and Paxson's squad is not.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> 
> I think its because most understood some of the madness behind JK actions but as the years have gone on so many are starting to see that its the puppet master and not the puppet who is generally to blame .We all know its the ownership but many are holding out hope that it was the players fault or the coaches or the gm's .
> ...


:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: nice post


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> This is such a great post with well thought out observations, I feel it is a good capsulation of the average Bulls fans emotions today.
> 
> ...


I see the Bulls on the verge of becoming irrelevant to the average sports fan in Chicago. Every time I mention a observation from the current team, I get the strangest looks of astonishment from people. You know the look, the "you still watch that crap", "you still care", "we have'nt played real basketball in years, ect... kind of looks. Contrast that with the comments you hear around the country about our beloved, nobody feels sorry about our decline.

I believe that shareholders truly do not feel our pain. Why? Because their pain is tempered quite lucratively with great fiscal performance that filters the sting. You cannot accuse a wildly profitable corporation of failure, except for lack of pride in the product. It's a very sad state.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

The Bulls are playing four rookies and a second year player regularly. They're 1-10. How bad do you think guys like Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Duhon and Hinrich already feel?

So Paxson is trying to provide a little public encouragement. Big deal. IMO, he's making statements like these for his players' benefit. They'll be hearing more _boos_ at the UC soon enough. What good would it do these young guys' egos for him to run down Madison shouting, "Man the lifeboats," even though that's how he may actually feel?


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## ShakeTiller (Oct 13, 2003)

Last year's team with Rose, Marshall and Crawford was bad and wasn't ever going to be a serious contender. This year's team, however, is worse. They may play harder, but they are worse.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> The Bulls are playing four rookies and a second year player regularly. They're 1-10. How bad do you think guys like Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Duhon and Hinrich already feel?
> 
> So Paxson is trying to provide a little public encouragement. Big deal. IMO, he's making statements like these for his players' benefit. They'll be hearing more _boos_ at the UC soon enough. What good would it do these young guys' egos for him to run down Madison shouting, "Man the lifeboats," even though that's how he may actually feel?


Thats a good point. The only thing I would say in response to it is that its a tad bit on the insulting side to the TRUE Bulls faithful. But, then again, I guess I would rather have him say that than act all panicky or something in front of the media.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> I can understand everyones frustration. But what gets me is JK had the helm for 4 years or was it five? There was not such an uproar as their is now with the team John is trying to put together. We had a losing streak to start the season, sure we did. But everyone here knows darn well all of the teams the last 6 years had longer losing streaks than we did to start the season. Where were all of the posters then? Some of those teams had Rose on them. And Rose has played for Toronto and they too have had mulitple game losing streaks that goes on up there. In the past the excuse is, "we are young." Well guess what? This team is younger than most teams we have fielded in the past. The team of Voskuhl, Curry, Chandler, el-amin, Drew Brand and Artest comes close to this team in age. How many wins did that team get?
> 
> I am willing to give John longer. Am I happy with his team so far? No. But obviously he is not done with it.
> ...


TBF, krause established himself as a very good GM beforehand (6 titles in 13 years) , paxson doesn't that kind of leeway because quite simply he hasn't earned it. And even some weren't all that favorable of krause's actions post dynasty and wanted him gone pretty soon thereafter.

no GM is a supreme being their work is going to judged from the moment they take a paycheck for the job, paxson has done nothing really to inspire such faith, he ingerited a 30 win that was everyone's cool pick for a next season's surprise , and that team 20 months later is 1-10 and is considered the worst team in the nba(the hornets can at least point to injuries as to why they suck ) The high drama for this season is already how bad we are going to be.

will we be bad enough or lucky enough to garner a top 3 pick ?

that is already where this season is at for us , .

i have a hard time blaming players when i knew coming into the season they were going to be a bottom 3 team in the league , being the 30th team as opposed to where i thought they would be 28th is very little reason for agitation.

does hitting a shot in a finals series 11 years ago supposed to go so far.

MJ only got less than 2 and half years and he is michael jordan , and his team won 37 games twice in that time .


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> The Bulls are playing four rookies and a second year player regularly. They're 1-10. How bad do you think guys like Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Duhon and Hinrich already feel?
> 
> So Paxson is trying to provide a little public encouragement. Big deal. IMO, he's making statements like these for his players' benefit. They'll be hearing more _boos_ at the UC soon enough. What good would it do these young guys' egos for him to run down Madison shouting, "Man the lifeboats," even though that's how he may actually feel?


How "he" may actually feel 

I wonder how "he" actually feels about the fact that he's assembled a team to put out there comprised of 4 rooks and a 2 year player and two centrepieces that after 4 years still play like rooks 

Who should wear the blame for the composition of our team that is regularly having their arses handed to them night in and night out with no end in sight ?

Love that gut feel Jo Boy 

Way to go 

Personally I would prefer Tractor Traylor's gut feel 

At least its more honest


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> The Bulls are playing four rookies and a second year player regularly. They're 1-10. How bad do you think guys like Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Duhon and Hinrich already feel?


Absolutely crummy. And my biggest fear is that it retards their development as players in the long run...



> So Paxson is trying to provide a little public encouragement. Big deal. IMO, he's making statements like these for his players' benefit. They'll be hearing more _boos_ at the UC soon enough. What good would it do these young guys' egos for him to run down Madison shouting, "Man the lifeboats," even though that's how he may actually feel?


... which is why I wish Pax had actually done something to give them a fighting chance instead of putting them in such a ridiculous situation and then offering words of encouragement.

---------------------------------

Point out all we want about how Rose and Marshall stink, but suppose we were 5-7 instead of 1-10. Yeah, 5-7 still sucks, but 5-7 with a couple of rookies like Deng and Nocioni and the attitude would be a heck of a lot more forgiving around here. Of course there would be some folks who think the sky is falling, there always are, but there'd be some recognition for the fact that several of our kids are at least playing hard.

Now they're getting nothing, and based on their last game it's getting to them, because they don't seem to be playing very hard.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Does anyone stop to think about how hard are schedule has been compared to the rest of the league. Well let me tell you. WE have played 11 games, and only 3 home games, ooch.

Of the 11 teams we have played 9 have winning records, yes that is right 9 of 11. The other two, NJ the first game of the season AD and curry were out and the second against GS state was the second of a back to back and the team was beat.

While there are many reason this team is losing no one ever mentions the awful schedule we have. I mean for such a young team how can we expect much else. We have, by far, the hardest starting schedule in the NBA. Mark my words as the season moves on, we get some home cooking, and play more home games we will start playing better.

david


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Playing the bulls contributes to opponents' winning records.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Bumped for some "60 days hasn't passed yet and look at the change" perspective.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

After the Bulls were off to a 1-10 start:

<b>Paxson said. "I know fans want to see things turned around quickly. But my gut tells me we're doing things the right way." </b>

Striking quote by Pax. I am happy that he stuck with that 'gut feeling' and even more happy he didn't trade away his assets while we were slumping. The future looks much brighter than it did only 2 months ago :yes:


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> After the Bulls were off to a 1-10 start:
> 
> <b>Paxson said. "I know fans want to see things turned around quickly. But my gut tells me we're doing things the right way." </b>
> ...


Hey DaBullz:

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1816856#post1816856


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Go *Yodurk*!!!

He simply owned this thread, no doubt about it.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> They are 6-9 and 1 game out of the playoffs. When they step on the court, their fans can believe they have a chance to win.
> ...


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> TBF, krause established himself as a very good GM beforehand (6 titles in 13 years) , paxson doesn't that kind of leeway because quite simply he hasn't earned it. And even some weren't all that favorable of krause's actions post dynasty and wanted him gone pretty soon thereafter.
> ...


all of these points are valid, however, my point was we gave JK time. Plenty of time. People wants and wanted Johns head in just a few months time and never gave him any time at all. My intent was not to slam JK but to prove a point. 

By the way kismet was right on with his remark about why John said what he did when we were 1-10. What else was he to say? We stink?

MJ got two and half years, yes. Give John that long. That was all I was saying.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!


too bad it took you months to reply.

gutsy.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> too bad it took you months to reply.
> ...


lol. I am a busy man. Patient and busy.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!



I think this is the first time I've ever seen TBF do that.

:laugh:


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