# The New New York knicks



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I am with ZEKE on this trade....If you want to see the Knicks take the East,which they do have a shot at,and if you ever want to see the Knicks win it all,this trade had to be made...

The obvious...If anyone can tap into Tim Thomas's potential,much like Jermaine Oneal, its Zeke......

With that said,the big knock now is,we may have lost our chemistry and we can be zoned since we lost our 3 pt threat..I couldnt disagree more..You dont beat a zone in the NBA my standing outside the arc and hoisting 3's..The mavs are so tuff because,they get great penetration by every one of their players and kick it out well...Plus they have that freak Nowitski....

To beat a zone in the NBA you need to find the seam,or be able to pentrate and force the zone to collapse....KVH,as good as a shooter as he may be,was not a slasher,an adventure every time he drove,and is a terrible passer.....

Tim Thomas will help immensley against a zone,and he is a streaky 3 point shooter...keep in mind,Houston will hopefully come back, KThomas plays a great pick and roll with Stephon and Stephon can shoot as well...Its not like we are the Nets

Our biggest problems have been Center where Deke is non existent on offense(why baker will be picked up)and the 2 with the horrid shooting of Penny and Shandon...

If houston can stay healthy,this is a verrry tough squad..I would much rather see Thomas paired with Houston than KVH..KVH and Houstons game are too similar in my opinion..Thomas has the abilty to be a 6'10 Sprewell type..Now all he needs is intensity


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

isnt allan supposed to come back for the pistons game?


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## hatnlvr (Aug 14, 2003)

Well the team will definately have to go through another transition period. We are better defensively and more athletic but we maybe worse off offensively.

I hope Zeke can sign Wallace this summer. A front court of Wallace, Mohammed and TT (with hopefully KT playing 6th man) would be pretty formittable in any conference!!!


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Alan should be back....If he is healthy we will be very tough....

it seems like alan and KVH didnt play together that much,due to injuries....

I like this squad.....The Knicks deperatly needed another guy who could create his own shot,so they would stop doubling marbury...

I think Thomas is a better fit for this team..hes a natural 6'10" 240 small foward with quickness..

Time will tell


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Nice, truth.

I like the TT/Sprewell analogy, since with the short stay of VH the trades add up to a defacto Spree for TT. And like you said elsewhere, Isiah needs to find a way to have TT coddled (his game not his ego) and mentored and matured into a man. This trade wont work if he's a flake (one thing that concerns me is that seemingly no Milwalkee fans are sad to see him go).

I also agree with you about the zone. You do need some people with range to bust it, but Marbury has it, Houston, and TT. But if that's all you have it's easy for the zone to simply create a "shell' to defend the perimeter. To bust it you need to collapse it, then dish to an open shooter. Neither Houston or VH or Doleac ever draw a second defender. The best defense of them is just to stay in front (not hard since none of them are laterally quick) with a hand up. And if a defense ever wanted to risk throwing a second defender at them they knew it was a low risk proposition because none are good passers and there was nobody inside to dump it to. 

It's certainly not a slam dunk good deal, but TT has the potenytial to be at least as good as VH, and Nasr will most assuredly become better than Deke with each day that they age.

I think we basically knew how good this team would have been with VH and Motumbo. Pretty good but not great, with everything depending on Houstons continued health, and the grace of the shooting gods on our side. The only room for improvement might come from gelling better. Obviously Houston's health is still important but there is much more room for improvement within individual players. If TT and Nasr can be developed this team has the potential to be much better than the prior.


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## the Trent Tuckers (Feb 15, 2004)

If im the Knicks I think I make sure Houston has def. gotten better. Theyre in no need to rush him back. I'd rather have the guy feel his best around mid-march, then now and just crash by the playoffs.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

If Allan Houston plays like he did last season, ECF is near...


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I for one missed Sprees game with this team...TThomas has the potential to fill that role..and hes a legit 6'10",240.....

I agree with everyone saying we had a nice squad with KVH..But that is very Ladenesque,not Thomas at all...This guy is thinking ECFinals..He is not thinking First round....The guys ego is huge,just like all the great ones...

Whats our biggest deficiency now???Low Post production...Like it or not,Vin baker is on his way

I am not saying i like every move,but Isiah is an easy read as opposed to layden...He wants to win it all or at least the east..I said it before and i say it now,he has no choice but to gamble given the hand he was dealt....


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Zone busters*

Oak,totally agree with you..Everyone thinks you put 5 dell currys on the court and you bust a zone.Not happening at this level..You need one or two great shooters,a big guy with good hands a penetrators who can kick it out or finish and a slasher to finish..

With marbury a healthy Houston and a SANE KT we have a perimeter game...Now we have an athletic slasher,and an agile big man....I mean What the #$%& is the story with DEKE not playing 1 minute vs dallas???To me that says alot.....

We have enough shooting,assuming H2O is healthy....Now we need a center who has good hands and a post game....


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

I guess we disagree again. Marbury, while great, is not a consistent bomber and besides, if he is shooting long Js he isn't driving and dishing, which is really what has made the team go lately. And for Oak...KVH has drawn more doubles already this year when healthy than TT will all year. He is not a great offesive player. All comparisons to Spree's game should now cease, as well. Both are athletic...and that is where it ends. Spree was wicked on D and had one of the most dangerous mid games in the league..plus he was blindingly fast and one of the most intense guys playing. As far as IT developing Jermaine...please....all he really did was give a young, talented guy PT. He was just a pup when he came to the Pacers. He is still developing...is that also IT's work?


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

H20 isn't healthy guys. Have you been watching him play, hell some games he could barely stay up. Which is why we needed Van Horn. The next time we face a team which throws heavy zone at us, Look for Steph to be smothered ( he isn't the great shooter you guys think he is) Look for H20 to be hobbled. Look for KT to get his normal 10 points and look for us to lose.


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## Dr. J (Jul 12, 2002)

*The other weakness in zone*

The other weakness in zone is rebounding. If guys can't matchup, it is harder to box, so the O should get more rebounds against a zone. TT not as good a rebounder, but Nazr makes up for that.

But you are right, driving is the way to beat a zone, as Clyde would say, dishing and swishing.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

well i would have much preffered sheed, as i am sure isiah thomas did as well. that 3 team deal where rasheed got traded was probably intended to have us in there somewhere instead of atlanta, but hey next yr we cud hav sheed and tim.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

dog, you're right about Spree, I hadn't fully developed my thought on that. I'm actually depressed the trade turns out to be Spree for TT, as there is no comparison, but then I was depressed they traded Spree for VH too. I meant to say that I hope TT can become as good as Spree, but you're right, TT is to soft defensively to ever be that. But not too soft to ever be VH.

But the trade wasn't TT for VH straight up, it was a package. I'm not sure it was a good trade, but I'm hoping and for the moment assuming that TT+NM equal or better VH+Doleac. At best it's an lateral move talent wise, but the hope is it makes for a better team, a more diversified team, which it well may.

You also have to consider that KT may not resign with us, which would leave a large defensive hole. Nazr will help there. And Doleac has an option this year or next, so they wanted to be sure they got something for him.

I also need to take issue with your assumptions about Marbury's shooting. I'm having internet connection problems so my stuff is just thru last season, but..

Marbury:
FG% 3P%
431 315
VH
434 346

Not that big a difference and Marbury's numbers as a Knick are:
443 373. So he's comparable to VH as a shooter.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

As a KNICK. He's hit more than a couple lucky ones this year on the Knicks. Don't expect his percentage to stay at 37%. He was shooting 43% on 3's as a Knick last time I checked, so he's clearly heading back to normal. He is not a consistent or dependable 3pt shooter. 20 games is not a good sample size. Van Horn was shooting horrible on 3's his first 20 games, should we have based his shooting touch on that?


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

Stop this TT has potential crap right now. He's been in the league just as long as Van Horn has. They were drafted in the same year. So whatever " potential " TT has Van Horn has the same.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> As a KNICK. He's hit more than a couple lucky ones this year on the Knicks. Don't expect his percentage to stay at 37%. He was shooting 43% on 3's as a Knick last time I checked, so he's clearly heading back to normal. He is not a consistent or dependable 3pt shooter. 20 games is not a good sample size. Van Horn was shooting horrible on 3's his first 20 games, should we have based his shooting touch on that?


You make it sound like I'm trying to pull a fast one. I put his career numbers there for all to see. Draw your own conclusions.


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