# VOTE VOTE midseason top 5 conferences



## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

I know we have a poll early of the best mid season conference, but lets put to a vote to top 5 at midseason (all conferences not just the "BS" conferences)

voting ends Thursday 11pm CDT


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

1 Big 12
2 Big East
3 Big 10
4 SEC
5 ACC


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

the SEC over the ACC?!?


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

1. ACC
2. Big 12
3. Big East
4. Big Ten
5. SEC


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

TM said:


> the SEC over the ACC?!?


That could be the most idiotic thing I've seen on this board in quite some time. And there's been a lot of stupid things posted on here.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

1. Big 12
2. Big East
3. ACC
4. SEC
5. Big 10


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

TM said:


> the SEC over the ACC?!?


They are both horrible, so who cares? Matter of fact, college basketball as a whole is really weak this season. Perfect situation for a big slow team with 10 white guys to step up.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

The ACC doesn't have the elite teams it usually has (outside Duke), but it does have 6 or 7 really solid teams.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Big 12
ACC
Big East
SEC
Big 10


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Nimreitz said:


> They are both horrible, so who cares? Matter of fact, college basketball as a whole is really weak this season. Perfect situation for a big slow team with 10 white guys to step up.


Are you kidding me? The 9th best team in the conference is Virginia Tech and they're 12-1!


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

This would be a lot more interesting if it were looking for the top ten conferences, instead of the top five. My list would add:
6. Mountain West
7. Atlantic 10
8. Pacific 10
9. CAA
10. WCC


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Nimreitz said:


> They are both horrible, so who cares? Matter of fact, college basketball as a whole is really weak this season. Perfect situation for a big slow team with 10 white guys to step up.


Ya, I dunno about that, Kansas and Kentucky are hell of talented maybe not as much as UNC or Kansas or Memphis from the last few years but the first year of Floridas back to backs was worse. I am talking about top teams though not overall, hard to judge talent as a whole when there is close to 350 teams


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Nimreitz said:


> They are both horrible, so who cares? Matter of fact, college basketball as a whole is really weak this season. Perfect situation for a big slow team with 10 white guys to step up.


Care to elaborate on why you think college ball is weak this season? Just curious.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

have you tried filling out a top 25? 1-10 is cake. good luck with the rest. call it parity if you want. i just think it's a bunch of not-too-strong teams.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

i consider Big 10, SEC, and ACC about the same, and honestly I really pick them out of a hat.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Mountain West or A10?
MWC has more talent at the top but the A10 is more consistent. Maybe because of my west coast affiliation but I gotta go with MWC.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Yeah, I'd go with MWC over A10 as well. BYU and New Mexico are probably better than anything the A10 has to offer.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

1.) Big 12
2.) Big East
3.) SEC
4.) Big 10
5.) ACC


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

How the heck is the SEC better than the Big 10?


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

The top 3 are the ACC, Big 12, and the Big East. I could see them being ranked in almost any order and have it be acceptable. Big 10 is the fourth best conference, while the SEC comes in fifth.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

TM said:


> How the heck is the SEC better than the Big 10?


SEC is 5-3 vs. the Big 10.

Some notable games are Florida (SEC #4) beat Michigan State (Big 10 #2)
Alabama beat Michigan (both middle of the road teams in their respective conferences)
Georgia (a lower tier SEC team) beat Illinois (a top 6 Big 10 team)
Tennessee (SEC #3) lost to Purdue (Big 10 #1) on a neutral court by 1 point


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

The Big 10 is horrible. I know the SEC is bad but its not that bad. Btw, Georgia did knock off a #16 ranked GT team yesterday.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

apelman42 said:


> SEC is 5-3 vs. the Big 10.
> 
> Some notable games are Florida (SEC #4) beat Michigan State (Big 10 #2)
> Alabama beat Michigan (both middle of the road teams in their respective conferences)
> ...


That doesn't mean the SEC is better. I mean, with that logic Charleston is better than UNC. You can't just look at teams based on one game. You have to look at everything. Granted, I don't think the Big Ten is better than the SEC by much, but ranking the ACC below both of them is pretty foolish.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

BlueBaron said:


> The Big 10 is horrible. I know the SEC is bad but its not that bad. Btw, Georgia did knock off a #16 ranked GT team yesterday.


Horrible is pretty harsh. I mean, they did win the Big Ten/ACC challenge. I can understand you saying the Pac 10 is horrible, but I don't think anyone else deserves that notion.

Purdue, Michigan St., and Wisconsin are all very good teams and Minnesota and Ohio St. will be dancing as well. Even teams like Indiana and Northwestern can beat you on any given night.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

BlueBaron said:


> The Big 10 is horrible. I know the SEC is bad but its not that bad. Btw, Georgia did knock off a #16 ranked GT team yesterday.


but they got killed by up and down Missouri


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## MANGHAM (Jul 23, 2003)

Big 12
Big East
ACC
A-10
Big Ten

SEC has no business in the top 5.


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## rogabee (Oct 23, 2007)

1. Big 12
2. ACC
3. Big East
4. Big Ten
5. SEC
6. A10
7. MWC
8. P10

Had the A10 not have had their collapse hangover from New Year's where La Salle lost to Binghamton and St. Joe's to Princeton, they would be 5th. The MWC and A10 are still interchangeable for 6-7, and some of it will be what Charlotte does tonight against a depleted Tennessee and [email protected] And coolpohle, I'll take Temple over BYU, though this week will be a very good indicator for BYU (home to UNLV, @UTEP).


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## Flyer Affliction (Mar 12, 2008)

Big East
Big 12
ACC
A10
BIG 10

A-10 gets the nod over the SEC and BIG 10 because they played 64 road games as opposed to 25 and 26 respectively.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Okay A10 guys, we know you love your conference but let's not get crazy here. Your best team wouldn't be top 5 in any of the BCS conferences other than the Pac 10.


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## Flyer Affliction (Mar 12, 2008)

coolpohle said:


> Yeah, I'd go with MWC over A10 as well. BYU and New Mexico are probably better than anything the A10 has to offer, and they have teams like St. Louis, Duquesne, and Fordham that are just awful.


Fordham is aweful, but Duquesne is a good team and have been playing without one of their better players, Melquan Bolding. St. Louis is also not aweful (and comprised of almost all sophmores). If you had said Umass and Saint Joes you might have a better arguement. 

Dayton just went into the Pit and lost to New Mexico by 2 points. Dayton is considered to be the 3rd or 4th (or even 5th depending on your opinion of Xavier) best team in the A10 right now behind Temple Rhode Island and Richmond. I don't see how you can rate the MWC over the A10.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Flyer Affliction said:


> A-10 gets the nod over the SEC and BIG 10 because they played 64 road games as opposed to 25 and 26 respectively.


Heck, let's put the SWAC #1 then!


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Flyer Affliction said:


> Fordham is aweful, but Duquesne is a good team and have been playing without one of their better players, Melquan Bolding. St. Louis is also not aweful (and comprised of almost all sophmores). If you had said Umass and Saint Joes you might have a better arguement.
> 
> Dayton just went into the Pit and lost to New Mexico by 2 points. Dayton is considered to be the 3rd or 4th (or even 5th depending on your opinion of Xavier) best team in the A10 right now behind Temple Rhode Island and St Joes. I don't see how you can rate the MWC over the A10.


I actually went back and deleted that because you're right, St. Louis and Duquesne aren't that bad.

A10 will have more teams dancing but that doesn't make them better...there's five more teams in the A10.


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## Flyer Affliction (Mar 12, 2008)

The bottom of the A10 has fallen off lately. UMASS needed to beat Davidson and LASALLE needed to beat Binghamton. Those two hurt. 

BTW there was a post inviting A-10 fans to this thread in the A-10 section that is why I am over here. 

I disagree that the A10s best team would not be top 5 in any BCS conference except the PAC-10. I'm going to assume that that was a kneejerk reaction, but if you really mean that statement then I am willing to refute it with a logical argument.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

BlueBaron said:


> The Big 10 is horrible.


So what does that make the ACC? You can throw a blanket over the B10, ACC, and SEC in my opinion...


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Flyer Affliction said:


> The bottom of the A10 has fallen off lately. UMASS needed to beat Davidson and LASALLE needed to beat Binghamton. Those two hurt.
> 
> BTW there was a post inviting A-10 fans to this thread in the A-10 section that is why I am over here.
> 
> I disagree that the A10s best team would not be top 5 in any BCS conference except the PAC-10. I'm going to assume that that was a kneejerk reaction, but if you really mean that statement then I am willing to refute it with a logical argument.


You're assuming Temple is the best team, right? I guess you could make a case for X but they've basically only shown that they're good losing close games to good teams. Fernandez is the only guy that strikes fear in the opponent so yes, I would like you to refute it. I think it's certainly possible, but I think you can make a stronger case the other way.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

coolpohle said:


> That doesn't mean the SEC is better. I mean, with that logic Charleston is better than UNC. You can't just look at teams based on one game. You have to look at everything. Granted, I don't think the Big Ten is better than the SEC by much, but ranking the ACC below both of them is pretty foolish.


Your logic of "best conference" and mine are slightly different. I go with what has happened where as you go with projection. There will be more matchups between the conferences come March, but as of now I believe the SEC has proven to be a little better.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

apelman42 said:


> Your logic of "best conference" and mine are slightly different. I go with what has happened where as you go with projection. There will be more matchups between the conferences come March, but as of now I believe the SEC has proven to be a little better.


Fair enough. We will certainly prove to be better.


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## rogabee (Oct 23, 2007)

If you count Temple as the best team - and I'm not so sure Rhody's not playing the best ball right now - yes, I think Temple would be top 5 in a BCS conference. Let's delve inside...

A one-point loss @ Georgetown (around #4-5 BE) because they didn't hit FTs down the stretch
A home win over Siena (sure, not a BCS win, but it'll be a top 50 W)
A home win over Virginia Tech (probably around #9 in the ACC)
A home loss to St. John's (ok...that is one of two that will hurt...a loss to the #11ish BE school)
A home win over Penn State (probably #9 in the B10)
A home win over Nova (around #4-5 BE)
A road win at Seton Hall (around #10 BE)
A home loss to Kansas (#1 in the B12)

That puts the Owls against top 50 and BCS schools 5-3, playing a solid range of opponents, but none in the bottom two of a conference either. If you project 5-3 out to 10-6, you will be top 5 easily in a BCS conference. Come back to me if the B12 #5 or ACC #5 is not 10-6 or better. Xavier is 5th in the A10 right now. Rhody, Richmond and Dayton are both better.

BTW, in case you haven't seen Richmond vs. BCS here goes:
neutral win over Mississippi State (#5-6 in SEC)
neutral win over Missouri (probably #4 in the B12)
road loss to South Carolina (#7 SEC)
neutral win over Florida (#6 SEC)
road loss to Wake Forest (#4 ACC in my book)

That's 3-2 vs. teams right around #5 in a BCS conference, and NONE of the games were at home.


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## rogabee (Oct 23, 2007)

Also, I do rankings the way Apelman does, with results more than projections. I posted a comment a while back on the A10 board about proactive vs. reactive, noting that you were on the proactive and I was on the reactive side.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

rogabee said:


> If you count Temple as the best team - and I'm not so sure Rhody's not playing the best ball right now - yes, I think Temple would be top 5 in a BCS conference. Let's delve inside...
> 
> A one-point loss @ Georgetown (around #4-5 BE) because they didn't hit FTs down the stretch
> A home win over Siena (sure, not a BCS win, but it'll be a top 50 W)
> ...


Well, if Baron knew how to coach defense they might be the best team year in and year out, but that's a different story.

Temple has obviously done some good things narrowly losing @ Georgetown, beating Va Tech by double digits, beating Nova and winning @ Seton Hall. At the same time, the Siena home win isn't anything special, the home loss to St. John's is ugly, Kansas absolutely destroyed them from the get go, and they just squeaked by Penn St. at home.

Can you definitively say they're better than Georgia Tech, Missouri, Ohio St., Pittsburgh, and Vanderbilt? I don't think you can.


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## Flyer Affliction (Mar 12, 2008)

coolpohle said:


> You're assuming Temple is the best team, right? I guess you could make a case for X but they've basically only shown that they're good losing close games to good teams. Fernandez is the only guy that strikes fear in the opponent so yes, I would like you to refute it. I think it's certainly possible, but I think you can make a stronger case the other way.


OK, I honestly do not know which team I think is best in the A10 but I will take Richmond and compare them to the SEC. Richmond beat both Florida (technicly neutral game but in FL) and Mississippi State on the ROAD. According to RPI those teams are 5 and 6 right now in the SEC. That would make Richmond 4th. Not to mention I think they would be extremely competitive with anyone except UK. Richmond did lose to South Carolina on the road, but heck 2 of 3 on the road is pretty darn good.

Now if you are going to argue what would happen into the future, I can't argue that, no one can, that is speculation. But right now with an RPI of 24 and an SOS of 44 and two impressive road wins against SEC teams it certianly looks like Richmond could finish in the top 5 of the SEC. 

They have an excellent trio in Kevin Anderson, David Gonzalvez and Dan Geroit. This arguement is an uphill battle because the A10 is not on TV, so perception is reality but if you look at what has happened so far then I have proven my point.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Trust me Flyer, I follow A10 ball more than anyone that mainly stays on this part of the forum so I do know about them. Richmond is the easiest team to compare because they have a lot of good wins, but I don't think you can comfortably say they're the best team. 

Geriot's been garbage this year since coming off that knee injury, imo. Anderson and Gonzalvez are obviously very good players as is Harper...the bench certainly holds them back a bit. Should be interesting to see what they can do in the tourney (assuming they make it which I think they will).


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Yeah, the Big 10 isn't horrible... horrible is a strong word. Purdue makes up for a lot of the mediocrity by themselves.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

BlueBaron said:


> Yeah, the Big 10 isn't horrible... horrible is a strong word. Purdue makes up for a lot of the mediocrity by themselves.


Michigan St. was preseason top five and starting to look like it. Wisconsin has beaten Duke. Illinois has beaten Clemson and Vandy. Heck, even Indiana has beaten Pitt...Minnesota has beaten Butler...Ohio St. was playing great before Turner went down...wake up!


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## AdamtheFlyer (Oct 22, 2006)

coolpohle said:


> Okay A10 guys, we know you love your conference but let's not get crazy here. Your best team wouldn't be top 5 in any of the BCS conferences other than the Pac 10.


I don't know about the SEC. Kentucky for sure. Tennessee I'll still give you even after the arrests, and I really like Ole Miss' results. Vandy looks good, but they have to beat someone decent away from home first, so they're an unknown. South Carolina and Mississippi State are the epitome of "meh". 

After the top 4, you could make a case that the next 5 teams in a comparison would be A10 teams, and I wouldn't be so quick to put Ole Miss and Vandy above Temple.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

AdamtheFlyer said:


> I don't know about the SEC. Kentucky for sure. Tennessee I'll still give you even after the arrests, and I really like Ole Miss' results. Vandy looks good, but they have to beat someone decent away from home first, so they're an unknown. South Carolina and Mississippi State are the epitome of "meh".
> 
> After the top 4, you could make a case that the next 5 teams in a comparison would be A10 teams, and I wouldn't be so quick to put Ole Miss and Vandy above Temple.


Yeah, it's certainly debatable...I mean Vandy's beaten Missouri and won @ St. Mary's. That's pretty solid. Mississippi St. hasn't done anything overly impressive, but they did beat your Bonnies by 52. That's pretty good.


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