# Rank the Coaches



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Ranking the top-10 active coaches in the nation



> 1. Billy Donovan
> 2. Roy Williams
> 3. Jim Calhoun


What do you all think about the list?


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

I think it's pretty accurate. Coach K at #4 kind of surprised me though. I thought he would be #1. This isn't Vitale's list though. 

I think Calhoun is too high. Maybe around 6 or 7 but not #3.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Just because Billy D won two championships in a row doesnt make him the best coach in the country.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

For a methodology based on "right now" having Calhoun and Izzo on the list was a joke. 

The top coaches "right now" are Donovan, Calipari & Howland because of what they have done the last 2 seasons.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

HB said:


> Just because Billy D won two championships in a row doesnt make him the best coach in the country.


The criteria of the article is "right now"


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Its poor then, what happens if Florida misses the tournament next year


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

HB said:


> Its poor then, what happens if Florida misses the tournament next year


UK fans run naked through campus???

What does the future have to do with "right now"


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> UK fans run naked through campus???
> 
> What does the future have to do with "right now"


Ah guess I am the type that doesnt believe in rankings that dont take into account the whole body of work. That ranking doesnt even have the winningnest coach in men's college basketball on its top 10 list.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

HB said:


> Ah guess I am the type that doesnt believe in rankings that dont take into account the whole body of work. That ranking doesnt even have the winningnest coach in men's college basketball on its top 10 list.


I find the method used to compile the list is crap and I find the execution of the method to be complete crap as well. Of the two, I find it far more amusing that he did such a crappy job of executing his method.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> The criteria of the article is "right now"


Ok, then...

1. Billy Donovan
2. Thad Matta
3. John Thompson
4. Ben Howland
5. Roy Williams



I don't think so



> I find the method used to compile the list is crap and I find the execution of the method to be complete crap as well. Of the two, I find it far more amusing that he did such a crappy job of executing his method.


Precisely


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

I agree with cpaw, the way in which Mandel came up with this list is pure nonsense. Why not have a poll for the Top 25 coaches every week? Who cares who the top active coaches were only as of April 6th?

I laughed when I saw Thad Matta in the top 5, and had to re-read the premise of his article.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> UK fans run naked through campus???
> 
> What does the future have to do with "right now"


Will Ashley Judd be there? 

Right now Donovan is the best based on what he has accomplished with his talented players. Next year at this time he may not be in the top 10. I think Bruce Pearl is one of the 5 best coaches in college basketball behind Calipari, Howland, Donovan, and Roy...


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

Legitimately the worst list ever compiled for anything. This list has so many contradictions that it's confusing to read. 

Coach K is hands down the number 1 coach in America and it's not even close. In 5 years that may change bc of his recruiting strategy but right now that is the case. Just review his resume. 

And Roy Williams is probably the greatest underachiever on this list. Although I guess if you go by regular season records and recruiting he is top 5. Too bad there's no real guidelines for this list. 

Mandel is a great writer when it comes to college football. Why he writes about college basketball is confusing. He hasn't written a good college bball article ever. I actually opened this link ready to laugh and I was still shocked at his choices. Almost everyone on this board could compile a better list.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Gtown07 said:


> Legitimately the worst list ever compiled for anything. This list has so many contradictions that it's confusing to read.
> 
> Coach K is hands down the number 1 coach in America and it's not even close. In 5 years that may change bc of his recruiting stragy but right now that is the case. Just review his resume.
> 
> ...


I think Bob Knight is the best coach in America. I don't know how he gets Texas Tech in the tournment year after year. Probably the greatest teacher in the whole college ranks right now.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

HB said:


> I think Bob Knight is the best coach in America. I don't know how he gets Texas Tech in the tournment year after year. Probably the greatest teacher in the whole college ranks right now.


I like that assessment IF you only take player improvement into account. For me I would include recruiting (among other components) as part of the rating so he'd drop a bit. Still though he's a top 10er to me. 

For me half time changes, player improvement, post-season success, consitency and recency are the stronger indicators.

I'd go with: 
1st tier (in order): Coach K, Calhoun, Donovan, Izzo, Pitino, Knight, and Howland
2nd tier (in no order): Boeheim, Olson, R.Williams, Calipari, Matta, Barnes, J.Wright, Self, JT III, G.Williams and B.Pearl


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Gtown07 said:


> And Roy Williams is probably the greatest underachiever on this list. Although I guess if you go by regular season records and recruiting he is top 5. Too bad there's no real guidelines for this list.


If you give me the talent that Roy Williams has, and the Assistant's Roy Williams has, year after year, I could have 500 career wins too. Williams is not a good coach and he has NEVER had to win without talent. He has NEVER had to build up his reputation, so a single blue chip recruit would even consider playing for him. He got a marquee job right out of the gate. Off the top of my head, these are better coaches than Roy Williams

Coach K, Donovan, Gillespie, Huggins, Beilein, Bruce Weber, Tom Izzo, Bruce Pearl, Bo Ryan, Ben Howland, Jamie Dixon, Dana Altman, Calhoun, Lute Olsen, Jim Larranaga, Bobby Knight, and probably Tony Bennett. Off the top of my head.

EDIT: I missed Mark Few.

And how can one possibly make this list? Billy Donovan has the best starting 5 in college basketball without a doubt. If he did not win the Title, it would be underachieving. I know it's a great accomplishment, but he didn't exceed expectations or anything, that team was capable of sweeping the SEC, but they got complacent. THAT would be an accomplishment.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Nimreitz said:


> Coach K
> 
> Billy Donovan has the best starting 5 in college basketball without a doubt. If he did not win the Title, it would be underachieving.


How is the same thing not said about K? The guy averages 7-8 high school All-Americans on his team EVERY season.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

TM said:


> How is the same thing not said about K? The guy averages 7-8 high school All-Americans on his team EVERY season.


Some of the guys Duke signs have no right being in the AA game. They all deserved to be there this year, but I can make a pretty nice list of Duke McD's AAs who did not deserve that honor. Im not trying to take a shot at Duke, because it isnt their fault these players get bumped 20 spots or more in the class rankings once they sign. Furthermore, some evaluators need to take notice and not just bump a kid's ranking once he signs with Duke. If he doesnt deserve to be Top 20, dont give him the ranking.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

TM said:


> How is the same thing not said about K? The guy averages 7-8 high school All-Americans on his team EVERY season.


Last time I checked he wins a bit more often. Compare resumes. National Championships, Final 4's, Conference titles, and upsets that you can remember in March. It's not close. 

Coach K recruits then wins. That's why he's the total package.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Right now the best coach is the one who is least hurt by early entry.You can't win without good players and if Donovan can keep lottery guys on campus that makes him better than Coach K right at this moment...At least in who he's coaching.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

Diable said:


> Right now the best coach is the one who is least hurt by early entry.You can't win without good players and if Donovan can keep lottery guys on campus that makes him better than Coach K right at this moment...At least in who he's coaching.



Umm...that was a unique case last time i checked. It's not like Donovan does that normally.

See Mike Miller, Kwame Brown, Anthony Roberson, etc.

This is a bad argument. No coach has proven to consistently keep players that weren't talented enough to leave. The "Florida 04's" are not the norm for Donovan. In fact before them that was the problem for the young coach. His players were leaving too early as he was recruiting the top players year in and year out. 

You guys are being a bit "presentist." No? I like Donovan but lets wait a bit before we "crown him."


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

BlueBaron said:


> I think it's pretty accurate. Coach K at #4 kind of surprised me though. I thought he would be #1. This isn't Vitale's list though.
> 
> I think Calhoun is too high. Maybe around 6 or 7 but not #3.


Why do you think that about Calhoun? He has turned many solid NCAA prospects that were not considered top 30 recruits, and made them all americans and very good NBA players (Allen, Okafor, Gordon, Hamilton)


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Why do you think that about Calhoun? He has turned many solid NCAA prospects that were not considered top 30 recruits, and made them all americans and very good NBA players (Allen, Okafor, Gordon, Hamilton)


That's just right now. Overall I would place him in the top 3 behind Coach K and Roy. I realize he didn't have the talent this year but Howland and Pearl have really emerged this year. Pearl didn't really have any great talent besides Lofton and the JeJuan Smith.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

BlueBaron said:


> That's just right now. Overall I would place him in the top 3 behind Coach K and Roy. I realize he didn't have the talent this year but Howland and Pearl have really emerged this year. Pearl didn't really have any great talent besides Lofton and the JeJuan Smith.


I think what Bruce Pearl did at UW Milwaukee is even more impressive. They were feared in the Tournament his last two years. They were a really tough out and it was just assumed that they would win the Horizon League Tournament every year no matter how they played in the regular season, which was always good.

And the talent he got there was not that good. He's at least third fiddle behind Wisconsin and Marquette, and then the local kids with real talent look out of state before turning back to UW Milwaukee. It's really the last D1 resort for Milwaukee kids.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Pearl is a fantastic coach. Tennessee was awful be he took over and they could be looking at three consecutive 5 seeds or above in the NCAA Tournament. Beilein is a fantastic coach as well. Two straight years his WV teams made the Sweet 16 and lost in OT two years ago in the Elite 8. This year after losing his top five players from a year ago, they lost in 2OT to Louisville in the Big East semis, got spurned for the NCAA Tournament, and then went out and won the NIT. I'm happy as hell he is at Michigan. Now you may be saying, "Amaker won a couple NIT titles at Michigan". Yea, but he never lost his top 5 players and then still almost got them to the tournament. 

Although if you ask me when ranking college basketball coaches we should have a list for best recruiters and another list for best coaches. Because they really are the two ways to succeed in college basketball.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

I'm going to "homer" it up since everyone is on Pearl's jock, among others and I have a very reasonable argument. Look at Thompson III's players:

Roy Hibbert and Jeff Green weren't in the rivals top 150 and were 3 star recruits...Now they're lottery picks. 

Jon Wallace was just straight up not ranked by any service. Not even a one star. Yet he's now started every game of his college career and was the most clutch player in the NCAA's this year. Without him g'town loses to Vandy and UNC. Against OSU, the hoyas lose by 25 w/o wallace.

Georgetown was a much, much worse team three years ago than WVU or Tennessee and JT3 put them in the final 4. Think about it the Hoyas went from a team that did not qualify for the NIT and went 4-12 in the Big East to a Big East Championship, Final 4 team.

Oh yea and the final 4 team played 7 guys regularly. None were Micky D's AllAmericans. The only team with that distinction. Find me another final 4 team- besides GMU - that can say that.

Before everyone just makes homer claims, think if I'm wrong or not. If you honestly believe his accomplishments in the last three years are lesser than others than make your arguments. From a pure coaching standpoint - no recruiting included - I say he's #1 in terms of clean up projects. 

Lets stop w the "homer" claims. All they do is show that you don't have much knowledge. If anything the "homers" know more about their team. And if they're (I'm) wrong then explain why, dont just make a one word response. 

Side note: No one else thinks Mark Few is wildly overrated? Name a year he wasn't upset, or lost after winning for the entire game (Texas Tech 3 years ago, UCLA 2 years ago). They just ALWAYS get upset early. Even look back to Wyoming in the 6/11 game 7 years ago (Dan Dickeau).


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

I don't think Few can be overrated because in that Conference he has completely broken the mold. Monson started it off, but Few made Gonzaga a national program in the WCC. That's absolutely incredible and I think he deserves a lot of credit, and he's done it up until the last year or two with some pretty second class players.

I think Thompson III is a good coach for sure, I just want to see a few more seasons from him before putting him at the top.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

JT3  is a great coach. This time next year he could be cutting down the nets. I can't believe that some people thought he would consider leaving GU for another school. Look for even bigger things from him next year.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

BlueBaron said:


> JT3  is a great coach. This time next year he could be cutting down the nets. I can't believe that some people thought he would consider leaving GU for another school. Look for even bigger things from him next year.


Are you being sarcastic?


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

HB said:


> Are you being sarcastic?


Nope. Why would you say that?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Because I think if Green and Hibbert leave for the NBA that team is going to struggle next year. Its a possibility they dont make the tournament


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

I doubt they'll go. Hibbert is so not ready. One more year would do him alot of good.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

HB said:


> Because I think if Green and Hibbert leave for the NBA that team is going to struggle next year. Its a possibility they dont make the tournament



I actually hope that both of them leave just to prove people like you wrong. Without Jeff and Roy this team is still top 20. Our guard play is deeper than UNC's and JT3's system will actually work better with a more guard oriented team. 

You sound ridiculous. Are you still mad about that game in March 

On another note I'm still worried about JT3 leaving. We still haven't given him a new, multi-million dollar deal that he deserves.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Gtown07 said:


> I actually hope that both of them leave just to prove people like you wrong. Without Jeff and Roy this team is still top 20. Our guard play is deeper than UNC's and JT3's system will actually work better with a more guard oriented team.
> 
> You sound ridiculous. Are you still mad about that game in March
> 
> On another note I'm still worried about JT3 leaving. We still haven't given him a new, multi-million dollar deal that he deserves.


I guess Uconn hasnt taught you anything this past season


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

HB said:


> I guess Uconn hasnt taught you anything this past season



UConn lost 5 starters and their best player off the bench. They also did not get one five star recruit. 

Georgetown is losing 2. And is getting two McDonalds All-American guards.

What a crummy comparison.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Gtown07 said:


> UConn lost 5 starters and their best player off the bench. They also did not get one five star recruit.
> 
> Georgetown is losing 2. And is getting two McDonalds All-American guards.
> 
> What a crummy comparison.


Crummy? That Uconn squad was ranked coming into the season wasnt it. Its not like they didnt have talent on that squad

Guess this is all pointless until we know if Green and Hibbert get drafted


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

I love when people ignore the others person's point. And just remake their point. It's starting to get bothersome. Respond to my argument like I did to yours. 

UConn=loses their top 6 players, gets good but not great recruits. Gtown=loses 2 players, get two great recruits. The points, rebounds and minutes gtown is losing pales in comparison to what UConn lost. 

Also remember that the Hoya system doesn't call for great individual achievement. UConn needs talented big men. Georgetown just needs guys who can handle, shoot and have a high basketball IQ. 

It's just a totally different scenario. Yes they both had good teams on paper pre-season but G'town's team is MUCH more experienced and their system is much more egalitarian allowing for lesser drop offs.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

HB said:


> Guess this is all pointless until we know if Green and Hibbert get drafted


People close to them (good friends, the school paper's beat writer) tell me that Roy is probably coming back but Jeff is gone. I'm still questioning whether Roy comes back. The guy is probably a top 10 pick. Tough to turn down.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I mean what can I say. Yes you are getting two talented All Americans, but I dont think its going to replace Green and Hibbert's production. You do understand those two are considered lottery picks for a certain reason. Not to mention that Hibbert is one of the best bigs in the country. And quite frankly Gtown missing the tournament is a worst case scenario, I'd be surprised if they dont make the tournament. I just dont see them getting back to the final four if they lose Green and Hibbert. Not even close.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

HB said:


> I mean what can I say. Yes you are getting two talented All Americans, but I dont think its going to replace Green and Hibbert's production. You do understand those two are considered lottery picks for a certain reason. Not to mention that Hibbert is one of the best bigs in the country. And quite frankly Gtown missing the tournament is a worst case scenario, I'd be surprised if they dont make the tournament. I just dont see them getting back to the final four if they lose Green and Hibbert. Not even close.


That's fair. The final 4 would be VERY surprising. I just hope people don't write the Hoyas off. There's still a lot of talented people on next year's team. DaJuan Summers will end up being a better player than Green. Just watch.


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