# I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins [MERGED]



## XRay34

*I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

20 Minutes

0 Points 
0 Rebounds
0 Assists
0 Blocks
6 Fouls!!!!!!!!

Gave Yao Ming Like 40 Points

38% 3 Ppg 4 Rpg In 27 Mpg On The Year...

Thats 27 Mpg Folks, Any Other Player Would Give More Production In 27 Mpg.


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## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Two things. 

#1 - He didn't guard him the whole night, but Yao played really great. Looks like he made an effort to break the hex Collins had on him.

#2 - The Nets won easily. Be happy. :banana:


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## Real

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

I dare you to defend yourself...



Carter15Nets said:


> Mar Opponent
> Sun 12 @ NO/Okla. City Loss (0-1)
> Mon 13 @ Houston Loss (0-2)


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## Jizzy

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

I swear you are the biggest clown I've ever seen


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## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

That steal he got was awesome. A thing of beauty.

He also did lots of little things unsophisticated basketball fans wouldn't notice.


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## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



ghoti said:


> That steal he got was awesome. A thing of beauty.
> 
> He also did lots of little things unsophisticated basketball fans wouldn't notice.


Thats probably why his stat sheet was so bare and Yao Ming had a monster game tonight. Sorry it sounds so sarcastic, but if he didnt shut down Yao and really didnt do anything stat wise, what exactly was he doing on the court tonight besides also putting the team in foul trouble.


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## ToddMacCulloch11

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Net2 said:


> I dare you to defend yourself...


 :laugh:


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## reganomics813

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Ya gotta watch the game man, Jason was barely on Yao. Frank stuck him on other guys, notably Howard and he did a pretty good job on him, he finished 3 of 13 shooting. Maybe one of the better moves Frank has made was letting Yao get his and shutting down everyone else. I am a big fan when we have this mindset but we don't always commit to doing it the whole game like we did tonight.


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## mjm1

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Net2 said:


> I dare you to defend yourself...


OWNED


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## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Thats probably why his stat sheet was so bare and Yao Ming had a monster game tonight. Sorry it sounds so sarcastic, but if he didnt shut down Yao and really didnt do anything stat wise, what exactly was he doing on the court tonight besides also putting the team in foul trouble.


Come on now. Yao was it for Houston. They were running it all through him. Thank god we had Collins to even foul him. Krstic also had 5 fouls and Cliffy had 4. Yao was hot. JVG's pre-game comments about Collins made it clear he was going to go to Yao often.


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## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Thats probably why his stat sheet was so bare and Yao Ming had a monster game tonight. Sorry it sounds so sarcastic, but if he didnt shut down Yao and really didnt do anything stat wise, what exactly was he doing on the court tonight besides also putting the team in foul trouble.


LOL.

You must have missed all the little things he did.

I hear if you put your face an inch from the TV and play the whole game in slow motion, Collins becomes Hakeem Olajuwon.


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## Krakista

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

He kept Krstic and Uncle Cliffey from fouling out allowing them to contribute some points. Besides, a passionate Yao Ming is the NBA's premier center. Much like Shaq in his younger days. So really, the main stat you should be concerned with is the W.

Would we have won the game had Jason Collins sat out the game?


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## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Oh shucks dont want to cause any commotion. Great win for the team but I still cant help myself, I wonder what NBASCOUT will say about this.


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## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Collins used his six fouls efficiently ... before fouling out! If that isn't all-pro, I don't know what is?


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## Krstic All-Star

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Twisting the intent of the title a bit:

Considering his offensive abilities (or lack thereof) I bet I _could _ guard him.


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## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Oh shucks dont want to cause any commotion. Great win for the team but I still cant help myself, I wonder what NBASCOUT will say about this.


Collins completely sucked in this game. He was just awful.

Maybe he should sit in the 2nd half of some back-to-backs, or at least come off the bench.


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## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Lamond Murray is a good PF.


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## Nets1524512

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Two things.
> 
> #1 - He didn't guard him the whole night, but Yao played really great. Looks like he made an effort to break the hex Collins had on him.
> 
> #2 - The Nets won easily. Be happy. :banana:



Looking beyond the stat sheet, I thought Collins played fine tonight. The screens were great and the offense ran smoothly while he was out there. I bet he had a great +/- rating tonight.


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## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Oh shucks dont want to cause any commotion. Great win for the team but I still cant help myself, I wonder what NBASCOUT will say about this.


I'm sure it will be the usual confusing Waltonesque comment. :angel:


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## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Nets1524512 said:


> Looking beyond the stat sheet, I thought Collins played fine tonight. The screens were great and the offense ran smoothly while he was out there. I bet he had a great +/- rating tonight.


I felt sad watching him.

He looked like he was at half speed. And for him, that's saying something.

You are right that he is incapable of playing dumb basketball, though.


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## Petey

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Nets1524512 said:


> Looking beyond the stat sheet, I thought Collins played fine tonight. The screens were great and the offense ran smoothly while he was out there. I bet he had a great +/- rating tonight.


 I don't think so.

Carter had that huge run with the 2nd unit, remember?

And the Nets were down early with him. Cliff replacing him brought the Nets back in the 1st.

Not sure if Collins +/- was up or down when he was in the lineup.

Sure Dumpy will be able to break it down better tomorrow.

-Petey


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## Nets1524512

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



ghoti said:


> I felt sad watching him.
> 
> He looked like he was at half speed. And for him, that's saying something.
> 
> You are right that he is incapable of playing dumb basketball, though.



I feel a calm when Collins is on the court...Its kind of like hes our rock in a lot of ways..he makes the right decision 95% of the time. If he can do it or not is a different story...but only 2 or 3 of those 6 fouls were legit anyway.


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## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Don't worry, Dumpy will find some statistical support for the massive contributions Twin made to the victory over HOU.


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Two things.
> 
> #1 - He didn't guard him the whole night, but Yao played really great. Looks like he made an effort to break the hex Collins had on him.
> 
> #2 - The Nets won easily. Be happy. :banana:


#1 - Yea ur right, but he was the main defender guarding Yao!
#2 - We wouldn't have won if yao played at that level and if tmac was playing
#3 - You think that collins can defend other very good bigs like wallace, zo/haslem, Z, bogut, peja? Then can he guard great bigs like Dirk? Amare? Shaq? Timmy? JO(he might be ready for playoffs)?
#4 - You think that he's any good when our parameter breaks down and guard come towards collins/cliffy/krstic? He's to slow to do anything other then foul!!!


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> 20 Minutes
> 
> 0 Points
> 0 Rebounds
> 0 Assists
> 0 Blocks
> 6 Fouls!!!!!!!!
> 
> Gave Yao Ming Like 40 Points
> 
> 38% 3 Ppg 4 Rpg In 27 Mpg On The Year...
> 
> Thats 27 Mpg Folks, Any Other Player Would Give More Production In 27 Mpg.


man i was asking the same **** in the game thread... and trust me you won't get any answers cuz we won! If we lost everyone would say that it was kidd/carter/rj/krstic/bench's fault!!! This is probably the one topic that we can't get rid of/discuss on this board... even thou its our biggest problem!


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## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> man i was asking the same **** in the game thread... and trust me you won't get any answers cuz we won! If we lost everyone would say that it was kidd/carter/rj/krstic/bench's fault!!! This is probably the one topic that we can't get rid of/discuss on this board... even thou its our biggest problem!


Didn't you say Stromile Swift is better than Collins?

That guy is one of the worst players in the NBA!


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## Fray

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Net2 said:


> I dare you to defend yourself...


LOL! :clap:


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



ghoti said:


> That steal he got was awesome. A thing of beauty.
> 
> He also did lots of little things unsophisticated basketball fans wouldn't notice.


I can tell you alot of things that unsophisticated basketball fans can notice:

He can't shut down people anymore (injury or just ****ty play, no matter its the truth)
He can't rebound
He can't keep up with the quick bigs
He can't keep out the power bigs
He can't jump
He can't dunk
He can't run
He can't help in any way on offense
He can't block shots
He can't play 2 weeks in a row
He's a finess player who can't really play a finess game!
He can't hit a jump shot
He can't make a layup
He can't dribble the ball and move at the same time
He can't make the monster play that excites the team/croud
He can't replace kmart
He can't really improve krstic's play
He can't force defenses to play him thus more double teams on carter/rj/krstic
He can't stay out of foul trouble
He can't stop Yao from getting 36pts on 9-17 shooting (18-20 from FT)
---------------------------------

*But he can ****ing box out!!*


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## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> #1 - Yea ur right, but he was the main defender guarding Yao!
> #2 - We wouldn't have won if yao played at that level and if tmac was playing
> #3 - You think that collins can defend other very good bigs like wallace, zo/haslem, Z, bogut, peja? Then can he guard great bigs like Dirk? Amare? Shaq? Timmy? JO(he might be ready for playoffs)?
> #4 - You think that he's any good when our parameter breaks down and guard come towards collins/cliffy/krstic? He's to slow to do anything other then foul!!!


#2 - Yao wouldn't have gotten as many touches if Tmac played. And yes we would have lost with RJ and Krstic combining for 16 points (not counting that last second shot RJ threw up for Kidd).
#3 - Collins defends them as well as anyone else can. Those guys are superstar players and NO ONE in the league can shut them down by themsleves.
#4 - agreed. However, they have gotten better on controlling penetration. It was an issue early in the season, but it happens now about as often as it normally would.

The guy is nowhere near perfect, but he's banged up and he's doing okay. Without him we have 2 bigs. Cliffy and Krstic.  So start learning to love him.


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## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> I can tell you alot of things that unsophisticated basketball fans can notice:
> 
> He can't shut down people anymore (injury or just ****ty play, no matter its the truth)
> He can't rebound
> He can't keep up with the quick bigs
> He can't keep out the power bigs
> He can't jump
> He can't dunk
> He can't run
> He can't help in any way on offense
> He can't block shots
> He can't play 2 weeks in a row
> He's a finess player who can't really play a finess game!
> He can't hit a jump shot
> He can't make a layup
> He can't dribble the ball and move at the same time
> He can't make the monster play that excites the team/croud
> He can't replace kmart
> He can't really improve krstic's play
> He can't force defenses to play him thus more double teams on carter/rj/krstic
> He can't stay out of foul trouble
> He can't stop Yao from getting 36pts on 9-17 shooting (18-20 from FT)
> ---------------------------------
> 
> *But he can ****ing box out!!*


It was a joke.


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



ghoti said:


> It was a joke.


 yea... well oops lol

i think its all this collins love thats got me sick! People try to prove something thats not *always *there!


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Thats probably why his stat sheet was so bare and Yao Ming had a monster game tonight. Sorry it sounds so sarcastic, but if he didnt shut down Yao and really didnt do anything stat wise, what exactly was he doing on the court tonight besides also putting the team in foul trouble.


Good question... do any of you collins fans have a lagit answer to this?


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## SetShotWilly

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Net2 said:


> I dare you to defend yourself...


 :rofl:


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## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> Good question... do any of you collins fans have a lagit answer to this?


You better start loving him because without him the Nets are going to the lottery. You think the team can go anywhere with Krstic and Cliffy as your only two bigs? Those three are it. So just enjoy the rest of the season. It's not like we ever count on the guy getting double doubles. The team is not designed that way. And just remember again: WE WON!! :banana:


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## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Net2 said:


> I dare you to defend yourself...


LMAO classic


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## DareToBeYinka

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

As Dave D said, Collins is significantly injured, and the only reason he is playing is because the Nets have zero big men depth. Yet instead of getting props for toughing it out game after game, he gets bashed. Would you like Padgett to replace him in the rotation? How would Padgett have defended Yao?


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## Air Fly

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Collins is an excellent defender and a great rebounder.....he does dem "little" things like boxout.


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## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

the thing ppl are not getting is we could put practicallly any other big man in place of collins and he could do better. what big man can't box out or set picks? collins is overpaid, and he's playing because we have no other big men, but you guys don't understand that if mgmt was wiser we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place! this is purely mgmt's fault, and for signing him to 6 million a year. why should we be so forgiving as to learn to love every bum that mgmt puts on the floor? my god, even jerome james gets paid 5 mill a year and ppl don't want to admit this, but jj is much better than collins. check out his game today. and in the playoffs last year. it might've just been a couple games, but in the 4 years collins has been in the playoffs, he has never come close to doing anythign liek that.

can u not handle the truth?


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## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> the thing ppl are not getting is we could put practicallly any other big man in place of collins and he could do better. what big man can't box out or set picks? collins is overpaid, and he's playing because we have no other big men, but you guys don't understand that if mgmt was wiser we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place! this is purely mgmt's fault, and for signing him to 6 million a year. why should we be so forgiving as to learn to love every bum that mgmt puts on the floor? my god, even jerome james gets paid 5 mill a year and ppl don't want to admit this, but jj is much better than collins. check out his game today. and in the playoffs last year. it might've just been a couple games, but in the 4 years collins has been in the playoffs, he has never come close to doing anythign liek that.
> 
> can u not handle the truth?


I see what you are getting at, but you made a mistake by comparing him to Jerome James. Jerome James has no passion for the game and a ton of talent basically rotting away. Imagine if Collins had those physical tools, he would be a top 5 center in the league.


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## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

so collins deserves to play because he has passion for the game? even if he sucks? then i should be playing, i have passion for the game


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## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> the thing ppl are not getting is we could put practicallly any other big man in place of collins and he could do better. what big man can't box out or set picks? collins is overpaid, and he's playing because we have no other big men, but you guys don't understand that if mgmt was wiser we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place! this is purely mgmt's fault, and for signing him to 6 million a year. why should we be so forgiving as to learn to love every bum that mgmt puts on the floor? my god, even jerome james gets paid 5 mill a year and ppl don't want to admit this, but jj is much better than collins. check out his game today. and in the playoffs last year. it might've just been a couple games, but in the 4 years collins has been in the playoffs, he has never come close to doing anythign liek that.
> 
> can u not handle the truth?


You need to watch more big men. A lot of them don't even set screens. I was laughing during the rookie/soph game that Krstic was setting screens. Not one other big was. Nocioni was the only other. You think that stuff sounds simple, and it is easier than born with athleticism, but MANY bigs don't do them. Not sure if it's a selfish thing or a lack of understanding about the impact, but if moe big guys did those things and did them well they would be making a lot more money.

There isn't one big man in the NBDL, CBA or playground that could carry Collins jock. And I know Collins isn't great, but that those players are down there for a reason. Everyone needs bigs.


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## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

and i don't see why you say jj doesn't have passion for the game. the guy has come a long way since he was told he doesn't belong in this league and handed a trash bag to clean out his belongings through hard work. he wasn't faking his injuries this season, and it's not his fault larry brown doesn't play him because of the deep knick roster. but when he does play, he gets decent to good results, except when he gets in foul trouble.

seriously, i think everyone is being unfairly biased against jj because of his 30 mill contract. but jason collins gets paid MORE.


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## Chalie Boy

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> I can tell you alot of things that unsophisticated basketball fans can notice:
> 
> He can't shut down people anymore (injury or just ****ty play, no matter its the truth)
> He can't rebound
> He can't keep up with the quick bigs
> He can't keep out the power bigs
> He can't jump
> He can't dunk
> He can't run
> He can't help in any way on offense
> He can't block shots
> He can't play 2 weeks in a row
> He's a finess player who can't really play a finess game!
> He can't hit a jump shot
> He can't make a layup
> He can't dribble the ball and move at the same time
> He can't make the monster play that excites the team/croud
> He can't replace kmart
> He can't really improve krstic's play
> He can't force defenses to play him thus more double teams on carter/rj/krstic
> He can't stay out of foul trouble
> He can't stop Yao from getting 36pts on 9-17 shooting (18-20 from FT)
> ---------------------------------
> 
> *But he can ****ing box out!!*



:rotf: man im repping you for this, this had me in tears


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## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> You need to watch more big men. A lot of them don't even set screens. I was laughing during the rookie/soph game that Krstic was setting screens. Not one other big was. Nocioni was the only other. You think that stuff sounds simple, and it is easier than born with athleticism, but MANY bigs don't do them. Not sure if it's a selfish thing or a lack of understanding about the impact, but if moe big guys did those things and did them well they would be making a lot more money.
> 
> There isn't one big man in the NBDL, CBA or playground that could carry Collins jock. And I know Collins isn't great, but that those players are down there for a reason. Everyone needs bigs.



maybe super skinny big men don't set good picks, but they make up for it by rebounding and blocking shots, like mikki moore. making them better than collins.

i guess you really trust mgmt's evaluation of talent.


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> the thing ppl are not getting is we could put practicallly any other big man in place of collins and he could do better. what big man can't box out or set picks? collins is overpaid, and he's playing because we have no other big men, but you guys don't understand that if mgmt was wiser we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place! this is purely mgmt's fault, and for signing him to 6 million a year. why should we be so forgiving as to learn to love every bum that mgmt puts on the floor? my god, even jerome james gets paid 5 mill a year and ppl don't want to admit this, but jj is much better than collins. check out his game today. and in the playoffs last year. it might've just been a couple games, but in the 4 years collins has been in the playoffs, he has never come close to doing anythign liek that.
> 
> can u not handle the truth?


yea man. I don't understand why everyone is making a huge deal about boxing out. All the better rebouders box out and hell collins isn't even leading the nets in charges! To me he's ok defense and 6 fouls! Thats it. The only reason collins is starting over cliffy is because the nets would look bad! I bet its a PR thing!! Collins and cliffy play the simmilar amounts of min.. and i'm sure that at 40 cliffy can still out play collins on both ends of the court! Yea and if you look at collin's numbers, they go from bad in the regular season to omfg theres a retard starting for the nets!! And sooo many people are using the knee injury as an instant comback to all of collins' problems. But he was average at best lastseason and now he's just **** bad!!! He's having career lows in almost every catagry, from MPG, to PPG, to BPG, SPG, Rebounds, dimes, games started, games played!!! WTF? We can't seriously have this guy starting next season and say that we are serious contenders for the nba title! He would make a good backup but i would take a player like rasho over collins, cuz atleast rasho blocks shots and gets rebounds! Honestly do you guys see collins getting any playing time on the heat, dallas, spurs, pistons? The top 4 teams to have a lagit chance at the title??? **** NO!!!
*
Eveyone who is opposing collins is at a major disadvantage, whY?

Because we have the need to make sense!!
*


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



DareToBeYinka said:


> As Dave D said, Collins is significantly injured, and the only reason he is playing is because the Nets have zero big men depth. Yet instead of getting props for toughing it out game after game, he gets bashed. Would you like Padgett to replace him in the rotation? How would Padgett have defended Yao?


 **** i would have sicked rj on yao! And i'm sure that Rj would have done a better job!


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Chalie Boy said:


> :rotf: man im repping you for this, this had me in tears


 thanx man


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## GNG

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> 20 Minutes
> 
> 0 Points
> 0 Rebounds
> 0 Assists
> 0 Blocks
> 6 Fouls!!!!!!!!
> 
> Gave Yao Ming Like 40 Points
> 
> 38% 3 Ppg 4 Rpg In 27 Mpg On The Year...
> 
> Thats 27 Mpg Folks, Any Other Player Would Give More Production In 27 Mpg.


No one ever has to defend Jason Collins. That's the point. He doesn't score.


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> I see what you are getting at, but you made a mistake by comparing him to Jerome James. Jerome James has no passion for the game and a ton of talent basically rotting away. *Imagine if Collins had those physical tools, he would be a top 5 center in the league.*


yea thats true... but not everyone can do what jerome james can physically do! Its sad really....


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> so collins deserves to play because he has passion for the game? even if he sucks? then i should be playing, i have passion for the game


hell i bet u just want the nba money


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## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> You need to watch more big men. A lot of them don't even set screens. I was laughing during the rookie/soph game that Krstic was setting screens. Not one other big was. Nocioni was the only other. You think that stuff sounds simple, and it is easier than born with athleticism, but MANY bigs don't do them. Not sure if it's a selfish thing or a lack of understanding about the impact, but if moe big guys did those things and did them well they would be making a lot more money.
> 
> There isn't one big man in the NBDL, CBA or playground that could carry Collins jock. And I know Collins isn't great, but that those players are down there for a reason. Everyone needs bigs.


yea those other "NBA Players" just do those other stupid things that don't matter like SCORE or REBOUND or Block shots or Steal the ball! lol yea the lil things are important, *but how many people bash kidd for not setting "great" screens! come on*


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## IbizaXL

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



> Originally Posted by Lord-SMX
> 
> I can tell you alot of things that unsophisticated basketball fans can notice:
> 
> He can't shut down people anymore (injury or just ****ty play, no matter its the truth)
> He can't rebound
> He can't keep up with the quick bigs
> He can't keep out the power bigs
> He can't jump
> He can't dunk
> He can't run
> He can't help in any way on offense
> He can't block shots
> He can't play 2 weeks in a row
> He's a finess player who can't really play a finess game!
> He can't hit a jump shot
> He can't make a layup
> He can't dribble the ball and move at the same time
> He can't make the monster play that excites the team/croud
> He can't replace kmart
> He can't really improve krstic's play
> He can't force defenses to play him thus more double teams on carter/rj/krstic
> He can't stay out of foul trouble
> He can't stop Yao from getting 36pts on 9-17 shooting (18-20 from FT)


DAMN!

does he suck that much? lol


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## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> maybe super skinny big men don't set good picks, but they make up for it by rebounding and blocking shots, like mikki moore. making them better than collins.
> 
> i guess you really trust mgmt's evaluation of talent.


I saw Mikki Moore as a Net alongside Collins and he did nothing.


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## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> yea those other "NBA Players" just do those other stupid things that don't matter like SCORE or REBOUND or Block shots or Steal the ball! lol yea the lil things are important, *but how many people bash kidd for not setting "great" screens! come on*


Do you think if Kidd thought the screens and boxing out didn't make his life easier he wouldn't lobby to get Collins benched and Cliffy starting? Do you think Kidd wouldn't be telling Frank and Thorn to get a NBDL player? He had Byron fired so he could get Collins out of the starting lineup if he was really as bad as some people here make him out to be. He must do something Kidd deems helpful. No?


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> I saw Mikki Moore as a Net alongside Collins and he did nothing.


how many minutes did he get in his 10 day stint with the nets? i saw him on the clips for the rest of the season and he did a whole lot more than nothing.


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> I can tell you alot of things that unsophisticated basketball fans can notice:
> 
> He can't shut down people anymore (injury or just ****ty play, no matter its the truth)
> He can't rebound
> He can't keep up with the quick bigs
> He can't keep out the power bigs
> He can't jump
> He can't dunk
> He can't run
> He can't help in any way on offense
> He can't block shots
> He can't play 2 weeks in a row
> He's a finess player who can't really play a finess game!
> He can't hit a jump shot
> He can't make a layup
> He can't dribble the ball and move at the same time
> He can't make the monster play that excites the team/croud
> He can't replace kmart
> He can't really improve krstic's play
> He can't force defenses to play him thus more double teams on carter/rj/krstic
> He can't stay out of foul trouble
> He can't stop Yao from getting 36pts on 9-17 shooting (18-20 from FT)
> ---------------------------------
> 
> *But he can ****ing box out!!*


I think Lord-SMX would make a good NBA Scout! He notices the obvious. Nothing escapes him. And when you spit in his eye, he doesn't believe it's "raining" when you tell him.


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> You need to watch more big men. A lot of them don't even set screens. I was laughing during the rookie/soph game that Krstic was setting screens. Not one other big was. Nocioni was the only other. You think that stuff sounds simple, and it is easier than born with athleticism, but MANY bigs don't do them. Not sure if it's a selfish thing or a lack of understanding about the impact, but if moe big guys did those things and did them well they would be making a lot more money.
> 
> *There isn't one big man in the NBDL, CBA or playground that could carry Collins jock.* And I know Collins isn't great, but that those players are down there for a reason. Everyone needs bigs.


I didn't realize it was that heavy. Must be the lead ...


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> 20 Minutes
> 
> 0 Points
> 0 Rebounds
> 0 Assists
> 0 Blocks
> 6 Fouls!!!!!!!!
> 
> Gave Yao Ming Like 40 Points
> 
> 38% 3 Ppg 4 Rpg In 27 Mpg On The Year...
> 
> Thats 27 Mpg Folks, Any Other Player Would Give More Production In 27 Mpg.


What I like about his box score is that he tried not to get in the way and hurt the NETS too much this night. I was grateful for that. Since the box score was all goose eggs, I'm sure he boxed out a lot. I'd ration him to one or two shots a game and 6 fouls. The less time she spends on court, the happier I am.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Do you think if Kidd thought the screens and boxing out didn't make his life easier he wouldn't lobby to get Collins benched and Cliffy starting? Do you think Kidd wouldn't be telling Frank and Thorn to get a NBDL player? He had Byron fired so he could get Collins out of the starting lineup if he was really as bad as some people here make him out to be. He must do something Kidd deems helpful. No?


1. How many tripple doubles did kidd have before he started w/ collins (post kmart)?
2. You are gonna say that kidd had X amounts of triple doubles since collins has started, but hell i'm sure that if kidd played with ben wallace his life would be 40x easier because he wouldn't have to rebound as much and he can depend on his big for help defense and ben can dunk and run the break too!
3. Managment is probably telling all the nets to:
a. Support the team and not bash anyone
b. Support the kmart "replacement/temp" aka Jason collins
c. i bet its a PR thing... if you knew that you ****ed up why would you tell the world that??? Why not Lie!!! They are business people not ****ing child raping priests!!! Wait they lie too... they aint *******ess... they will support collins as long as they don't have a lagit player to start for the nets!

4. Wtf does lordscott have to do with anything. Scott was awsome cuz he would tell everyone that player a played like ****, player b was awsome, but we still played like ****! **** collins would get soo much heat if L wasn't such a *****!!!

5. If kidd/nets/L supported collins so much why would they be waiting for SAR at Midnight!! They went to his house at 12:01 for ****'s sake!!!!! What does that tell me??? We were not only after SAR but marshall, swift, and a few other bigs. And those 3 names would have started for us... yea thats alot of confindence in collins! You know they are trying their hardest to replace him!!! During the trade season we were clearing cap space for Tim thomas... a PF who management would have forced L into starting??? 
-------------------
Open ur eyes... collins isn't that great, and management knows that!!! Why else would they be looking for a PF? Not a PG/SG/SF/C!! A ****ing PF!!!!!!&^$%*(^$%*()&^$%*(&^%


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



gio30584 said:


> DAMN!
> 
> does he suck that much? lol


 man some of these people are so supid that they make collins look like an allstar!!


----------



## Mogriffjr

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



gio30584 said:


> DAMN!
> 
> does he suck that much? lol


you have to understand the Collins before trying to make a case he sucks...

yes he's not a consistent rebounder...
yes he cannot score
yes he cannot jump, nor block shots, shoot ....this is making me emotional

thing is he's mr. intangibles...and every team has one...the good teams like the Spurs and Pistons have one of their top players as that guy (Duncan and Ben Wallace)...

For the Nets, that player is Collins...he knows the offense and plays his role very well...he sets screens, boxes out and defends...he'll shoot the mid range jumper because that's his game.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

the problem is you can't only bring intangibles and nothing else. it works with those teams because those players actually bring stats as well. show me other players who only bring intangibles and are major parts of their team.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Nets1524512 said:


> Looking beyond the stat sheet, I thought Collins played fine tonight. The screens were great and the offense ran smoothly while he was out there. I bet he had a great +/- rating tonight.


beyond the stat sheet..... yea i bet he played well. But when you actually look at the entire game. Everything from stats to ****ing boxing out! He played like ****! He's supposed to be our "stoper"... and he sure did stop yao!


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Nets1524512 said:


> I feel a calm when Collins is on the court...Its kind of like hes our rock in a lot of ways..he makes the right decision 95% of the time. If he can do it or not is a different story...but only 2 or 3 of those 6 fouls were legit anyway.


yea... and then the nets start playin offense lol.

On defense he isn't a liability, but for some reason he isn't getting boards like last season, his jumper isn't fallin like last season and he can't stay out of foul trouble (unlike the rest of his career lol)


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> yea... and then the nets start playin offense lol.
> 
> On defense he isn't a liability, but for some reason he isn't getting boards like last season, his jumper isn't fallin like last season and he can't stay out of foul trouble (unlike the rest of his career lol)


i think ur giving him too much credit for last season


----------



## kdub

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Didn't Juwan Howard go 3-13 and grab an insignificant number of boards?


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> i think ur giving him too much credit for last season


 how is that? he was a good 7,7,1,1block for us! and he was also injured a good amount aswell!


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

eh...i just expect more out of a starter. but yeah his suckage has gone down to new lows this season


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

"Suckage" ... that's prime! ROTFLMAO


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> the problem is you can't only bring intangibles and nothing else. it works with those teams because those players actually bring stats as well. show me other players who only bring intangibles and are major parts of their team.


yea they don't see that balance works! You can't just be a complete one sided player! Look at bowen, he can shoot 3s. Look at Ben Wallace, he's athletic and plays monster defense but he can also make that open layup/dunk/oop! Carter is monster on o but he still playes above average defense and gets steals! And all of those players do the intangibles too! you put up a very good post.... i don't think any other nba starter brings only the intangibles.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



NBASCOUT2005 said:


> "Suckage" ... that's prime! ROTFLMAO


 suckage...

have any of u people seen those vw commercials i posted up on one of these threads?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=70722051211331357&q=vw+gti
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1158901779668604713&q=vw+gti
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1948433946923483148&q=vw+gti


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Rawse said:


> No one ever has to defend Jason Collins. That's the point. He doesn't score.


That's why it's hard for the NETS to blowout any teams this year. They're always playing 4 on 5.


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Nets1524512 said:


> I feel a *calm* when Collins is on the court...Its kind of like hes our *rock* in a lot of ways..he makes the right decision 95% of the time. If he can do it or not is a different story...but only 2 or 3 of those 6 fouls were legit anyway.


I can understand that. He [Collins] plays positional defense. Flops a lot and takes up space. You feel calm because he lulls you to sleep. Nothing is much happenin' when he's out there.

Of course he's like a rock. Most statues are made of rock. No wonder you're calm. I expected the pigeons to land a long time ago!


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Face it, dudes! Collins is Bogus! His game is Bogus! He plays Bogusball!


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



NBASCOUT2005 said:


> I can understand that. He [Collins] plays positional defense. Flops a lot and takes up space. You feel calm because he lulls you to sleep. Nothing is much happenin' when he's out there.
> 
> Of course he's like a rock. Most statues are made of rock. No wonder you're calm. I expected the pigeons to land a long time ago!


lol, great. notice how collins lovers never have anything substantial to say when they're arguing for collins, its always the intangibles, the passion, the familiarity with the system, the injury, the lack of anything better the indescribable feelings, the sixth sense, the inner satisfaction, the peace of mind.

full of bs.


----------



## kdub

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> lol, great. notice how collins lovers never have anything substantial to say when they're arguing for collins, its always the intangibles, the passion, the familiarity with the system, the injury, the lack of anything better the indescribable feelings, the sixth sense, the inner satisfaction, the peace of mind.
> 
> full of bs.


Again. Anyone notice Juwan Howard's statline?


----------



## neoxsupreme

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Collins also had 2 pts, 1 rebound and 1 turnover in 32 minutes of floor time in the Hornets game. I know the Nets don't ask much of him except playing good defense, boxing out and setting solid screens but his statline is just outrageous. LOL. The worst fantasy player. But there is more to his impact than meets the eye on the boxscore.


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

I don't love Jason Collins, but I'm not blind to his strengths.

He is a role player who can do very specific things well on both ends of the court and can help the Nets win, which he has done successfully in the past.

The fact that he is miscast as a starting PF is not his fault.

He is paid like a backup center (Etan Thomas, Mark Blount) and that is what he is.

All of you who are dissatisfied with his performance this season should be pointing at the front office, who have made it necessary for an already unathletic player to play injured and out of position.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

mark blount and etan thomas are miles better than collins


----------



## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> mark blount and etan thomas are miles better than collins


Mark Blount is terrible. I'll give you Etan Thomas


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Say in the 20 Minutes we got the normal average 8 points 5 rebs from a power forward

man how could would this team be if we just got the minimum average pf #'s

twin is holding us back from contention so he better step up his game or next year we get new pf


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Mark Blount is terrible. I'll give you Etan Thomas



blount had 18 pts yesterday and is the starter on the twolves. just because boston didn't like him and his defense isn't that great doesn't come close to putting him on the level of collins. get real.


----------



## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> blount had 18 pts yesterday and is the starter on the twolves. just because boston didn't like him and his defense isn't that great doesn't come close to putting him on the level of collins. get real.


Because Mark Blount is a tease, he plays good today and then disappears the other. As much as I think Collins is a waste on the court, I'd rather have him than some guys who are just thinking of when their next pay check is coming. Would you rather have Olowokandi than Collins


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> Say in the 20 Minutes we got the normal average 8 points 5 rebs from a power forward
> 
> man how could would this team be if we just got the minimum average pf #'s
> 
> twin is holding us back from contention so he better step up his game or next year we get new pf


Bare in my the dude is playing on half a leg.


D'Alessandro said:


> One last time, the guy is a physical wreck, and he came in knowing that this could be a washout season for him. You know that he had his surgery in the summer on his right knee? His left knee is actually worse now, which is something we were asked not to report, but it’s time everyone knew the truth. The only thing preventing him from taking extended time off is that they can’t defend a lick without him. *If the pinheads who get on him at the Arena were inside his body, they’d praise him instead of ridicule him.*


Link 

I think Dave just called a bunch of people on this board pinheads!  :biggrin:


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

i'd rather have olowokandi, but blount isn't even close to being kandi either just cuz they got traded for each other. kandi doesn't even play for the celtics. and blount is not as inconsistent as you make it seem, especially after going to the twolves.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

like i said it's not like we don't know what a healthy collins can do. nothing.


----------



## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



 Netted- said:


> Bare in my the dude is playing on half a leg.
> 
> Link
> 
> I think Dave just called a bunch of people on this board pinheads!  :biggrin:


Since when has Dave words' been law.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Since when has Dave words' been law.


Never, but I trust that the guy knows when someone is injured as severly as he says. There isn't much room for interpretation there. He's actually stating what he knows has been told to him and admitting he was told it.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

we know collins is injured. he still sucks when he isn't.


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

The NETS' roster isn't a hospital ward! If you want to watch the Special Olympics, fine, then you shouldn't be watching NETS' basketball.


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

if he hurts then dont play

hes hurting us by doing this

if i was inside his body i would sit my *** down and help nets win.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> we know collins is injured. he still sucks when he isn't.


Do you honestly think J Kidd would play with a player that is as bad as you make him out to be? He could have him benched in a heartbeat. Come on now.


----------



## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Its not Collins fault that he is hurt, its also not his fault that management thinks 3 bigs can get it done for the rest of the season. But like NBASCOUT and Carter15Nets are implying, he really shouldnt be playing if he is hurt. He is only making it worse for himself and the team by playing more minutes


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

BTW jason collins is shooting an amzing 49% from the free throw line.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> if he hurts then dont play
> 
> hes hurting us by doing this
> 
> if i was inside his body i would sit my *** down and help nets win.


WHO WILL PLAY!!! You only have 2 bigs excluding him.

They would be hurting more without him.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Do you honestly think J Kidd would play with a player that is as bad as you make him out to be? He could have him benched in a heartbeat. Come on now.


you trust mgmt and the players way too much. first of all, twin is a pretty popular player among the players, he's a likeable guy, so of course the others aren't gonna say anything bad about him. but how do you kno deep down they want other ppl to take his spot, as affirmed by the failed free agent signings this summer?


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> WHO WILL PLAY!!! You only have 2 bigs excluding him.
> 
> They would be hurting more without him.


marc jackson would have been giving us 3x better #'s in 27 mpg

buuuuuuuut wait they trade him for nachbar who gonna rot on bench for 2 more years.


----------



## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> marc jackson would have been giving us 3x better #'s in 27 mpg
> 
> buuuuuuuut wait they trade him for nachbar who gonna rot on bench for 2 more years.



Puhhhlease! Marc Jackson sheesh


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

just because players don't get minutes doesn't mean they're worse than collins, who gets minutes he doesn't deserve


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> *you trust mgmt and the players way too much*. first of all, twin is a pretty popular player among the players, he's a likeable guy, so of course the others aren't gonna say anything bad about him. but how do you kno deep down they want other ppl to take his spot, as affirmed by the failed free agent signings this summer?


Because they are paid millions of dollars and have way more expertise. So you think Kidd is willing to throw away his chance at a championship for the sake of his friendship with Twin? He has a prime excuse with Collins injury to suggest swapping Collins and Cliffy's roles. Why doesn't he? Don't give me that lame friendship excuse again.

And who is talking about the offseason. I'm talking about now. Just because they wanted to upgrade the position it does not mean they were going to make Collins the janitor which it sounds like you think is the only job he is capable of.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> just because players don't get minutes doesn't mean they're worse than collins, who gets minutes he doesn't deserve


Yeah, Mark Jackson is tearing it up with the Hornets now.


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

If I'm coaching a big game in the playoffs, I would rather have Collins available on my bench than Mark Blount or Etan Thomas.

Collins started for 3 teams that went deep into the playoffs, and is much more likely to contribute to a win than those guys.

He is a useful player that has always been asked to do way too much.

This season he shouldn't even be playing at all, or at least he should be rested as much as possible. Too bad there was no feeling in the organization that bringing in more bigs was urgent, so that's now impossible.


----------



## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



ghoti said:


> If I'm coaching a big game in the playoffs, I would rather have Collins available on my bench than Mark Blount or Etan Thomas.
> 
> Collins started for 3 teams that went deep into the playoffs, and is much more likely to contribute to a win than those guys.
> 
> He is a useful player that has always been asked to do way too much.
> 
> This season he shouldn't even be playing at all, or at least he should be rested as much as possible. Too bad there was no feeling in the organization that bringing in more bigs was urgent, so that's now impossible.


Etan Thomas is a really good player, you dont want to underestimate him that much. If he were on the nets bench right now, thats a couple more wins added.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Because they are paid millions of dollars and have way more expertise. So you think Kidd is willing to throw away his chance at a championship for the sake of his friendship with Twin? He has a prime excuse with Collins injury to suggest swapping Collins and Cliffy's roles. Why doesn't he? Don't give me that lame friendship excuse again.
> 
> And who is talking about the offseason. I'm talking about now. Just because they wanted to upgrade the position it does not mean they were going to make Collins the janitor which it sounds like you think is the only job he is capable of.



how do u think it would look for the team if kidd lambasted collins in publuc, espeicially with evry1 liking collins and him doing nothing wrong except for sucking? mgmt also pays for kidd and others to keep their mouths shut when they can't get the job done. do u think kidd is happy with the structure of the team right now as he says he is? have u heard anything from any fo the players regarding the structure of the team? players sometimes call out other players when they're not on the best of terms (kmart on kvh) but when u got a guy as popular as collins u're gonna cause some locker room damage when u call out a player like that, especially if u kno he can't improve.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> how do u think it would look for the team if kidd lambasted collins in publuc, espeicially with evry1 liking collins and him doing nothing wrong except for sucking? mgmt also pays for kidd and others to keep their mouths shut when they can't get the job done. do u think kidd is happy with the structure of the team right now as he says he is? have u heard anything from any fo the players regarding the structure of the team? players sometimes call out other players when they're not on the best of teams (kmart on kvh) but when u got a guy as popular as collins u're gonna cause some locker room damage when u call out a player like that, especially if u kno he can't improve.


I didn't even get past the first sentence. Who's talking about lambasting him in public? He would talk to Twin, talk to cach Frank and suggest it. Get real. Why doesn't he?


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

how do u know he hasn't suggested it? if it wasn't done in public, we wouldn't know would we? and he probably did suggest it which is why they tried so hard to get some big bodies last summer. just because a player wants something doesn't mean mgmt can do it.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> how do u know he hasn't suggested it? if it wasn't done in public, we wouldn't know would we? and he probably did suggest it which is why they tried so hard to get some big bodies last summer. just because a player wants something doesn't mean mgmt can do it.


Again with the last summer. I'm talking now! Within the past month or so? You honestly think if Kidd thought the guy was as bad as you make him out to be  his words with the coach wouldn't carry weight? Particularly when this coach got his job from Kidd bouncing Byron?


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

wtf is the team gonna do if he complains now? the trade deadline has passsed, they're stuck with what they have. of course you have to talk about the summer or a time when they can actually get rid of him or sign someone else. u just don't get it do u.


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> marc jackson would have been giving us 3x better #'s in 27 mpg
> 
> buuuuuuuut wait they trade him for nachbar who gonna rot on bench for 2 more years.


Now this makes no sense at all.

Jackson is even SLOWER than Collins, just as weak around the rim, can't screen properly, is an even WORSE rebounder, and is about a million times worse defensively.

Collins could stand around in the low block and jack up shots every time the ball came his way. He could shoot 6-15 and score 12 points.

As far as I can see, that's the great contribution of Jackson.

He sucks, and he sat while an injured Collins struggled through games. Pathetic.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> wtf is the team gonna do if he complains now? the trade deadline has passsed, they're stuck with what they have. of course you have to talk about the summer or a time when they can actually get rid of him or sign someone else. u just don't get it do u.


Well if he is the worst starter ever and some bums from the NBDL are better, than they could start Cliffy and send Collins to the bench. Why not? Why doesn't Kidd suggest that if he felt like you do?

Are you better at identifying good basketball players than Kidd?


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Etan Thomas is a really good player, you dont want to underestimate him that much. If he were on the nets bench right now, thats a couple more wins added.


Oh, there's no doubt the Nets need a guy like Thomas.

But if Collins was healthy and being used properly, I think he would bring more to the table in a big game.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



ghoti said:


> Now this makes no sense at all.
> 
> Jackson is even SLOWER than Collins, just as weak around the rim, can't screen properly, is an even WORSE rebounder, and is about a million times worse defensively.
> 
> Collins could stand around in the low block and jack up shots every time the ball came his way. He could shoot 6-15 and score 12 points.
> 
> As far as I can see, that's the great contribution of Jackson.
> 
> He sucks, and he sat while an injured Collins struggled through games. Pathetic.


if u make scoring in the low post as easy as it sounds, any 7 footer could do it. fact of the matter is that marc jackson is one of the better low post scorers in the league, and has a decent shot too. he's much stronger around the rim than collins. ive never seen anyone as weak as collins around the rim. he was benched for his lack of defense, which to me wasn't enough justification to sit him behind collins, who couldn't even make up for his lack of offense with his defense


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Well if he is the worst starter ever and some bums from the NBDL are better, than they could start Cliffy and send Collins to the bench. Why not? Why doesn't Kidd suggest that if he felt like you do?
> 
> Are you better at identifying good basketball players than Kidd?



they don't start cliff for a variety of reasons. it's not as simple as the best player starts. collins is bigger than cliff. cliff is 40, and they need his scoring punch off the bench. cliff is really a sf/pf who is asked to play strictly pf. u have to look at the overall makeup of the players on the floor before you go saying why a player starts and why he doesn't


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> if u make scoring in the low post as easy as it sounds, any 7 footer could do it. fact of the matter is that marc jackson is one of the better low post scorers in the league, and has a decent shot too. he's much stronger around the rim than collins. ive never seen anyone as weak as collins around the rim. he was benched for his lack of defense, which to me wasn't enough justification to sit him behind collins, *who couldn't even make up for his lack of offense with his defense*


There is the flaw. Collins doesn't need to make up for the lack of offense. Don't expect him to score! We have Carter, RJ, Krstic and Kidd. Do you think the Spurs are hampered by Nesterovic's lack of offense? Or the Mavs with Diop?

If you are counting on Collins to ever win you a game then you are crazy. Collins is like an old pickup truck on a construction site. He isn't fast or pretty, but he gets the job done. Even with a flat tire.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> they don't start cliff for a variety of reasons. it's not as simple as the best player starts. collins is bigger than cliff. cliff is 40, and they need his scoring punch off the bench. cliff is really a sf/pf who is asked to play strictly pf. u have to look at the overall makeup of the players on the floor before you go saying why a player starts and why he doesn't


I absolutely agree, but come on now. Surely if Collins is as pathetic a player as you make him out to be they woud be better suited with 40 year old Cliffy starting? Right? Earlier you mentioned Jackson. Wouldn't Kidd have talked Frank into playing him over Collins since you thought he was better? They wouldn't have traded him then, right?


----------



## jarkid

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Rawse said:


> No one ever has to defend Jason Collins. That's the point. He doesn't score.


haha, this is funny post.. :biggrin: 

this thread is the most funny i have ever seen in this board


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> if u make scoring in the low post as easy as it sounds, any 7 footer could do it. fact of the matter is that marc jackson is one of the better low post scorers in the league, and has a decent shot too. he's much stronger around the rim than collins. ive never seen anyone as weak as collins around the rim. he was benched for his lack of defense, which to me wasn't enough justification to sit him behind collins, who couldn't even make up for his lack of offense with his defense


I can understand being frustrated watching Collins and wanting someone else to play, but I don't get how that frustration could lead to that analysis of Marc Jackson's abilities.

One of the better low post scorers in the league? Please.

The fact is that Jackson couldn't play the Nets' style on either end of the court. That was no surprise to anyone except Rod Thorn, who apparently can't afford League Pass.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> There is the flaw. Collins doesn't need to make up for the lack of offense. Don't expect him to score! We have Carter, RJ, Krstic and Kidd. Do you think the Spurs are hampered by Nesterovic's lack of offense? Or the Mavs with Diop?
> 
> If you are counting on Collins to ever win you a game then you are crazy. Collins is like an old pickup truck on a construction site. He isn't fast or pretty, but he gets the job done. Even with a flat tire.



u are lost. if a player who provides zero offense doens't make up for it with his defense, then what good is he and why is he even on the floor? both the players you mentioned either have decent offensive and defensive games (rasho) or is an excellent shotblocker and rebounder (diop). to play, you have to contribute something. collins contributes nothing but mediocre defense.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



ghoti said:


> I can understand being frustrated watching Collins and wanting someone else to play, but I don't get how that frustration could lead to that analysis of Marc Jackson's abilities.
> 
> One of the better low post scorers in the league? Please.
> 
> The fact is that Jackson couldn't play the Nets' style on either end of the court. That was no surprise to anyone except apparently Rod Thorn, who apparently can't afford League Pass.



he is one of the better low post scorers in this era of basketball. you don't watch him very much do you. last yr with philly he was a main low post threat with them (in limited minutes too) and he has gotten a couple of double digit scoring games even with us, and put up 18 in his 2nd game with the hornets. when he gets minutes he scores, and it's usually in the low post. just ask philly fans


----------



## DareToBeYinka

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> *he is one of the better low post scorers in this era of basketball.* you don't watch him very much do you. last yr with philly he was a main low post threat with them (in limited minutes too) and he has gotten a couple of double digit scoring games even with us, and put up 18 in his 2nd game with the hornets. when he gets minutes he scores, and it's usually in the low post. just ask philly fans


:mob:

Yeah that's why Philly PAID US to take him...


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> u are lost. if a player who provides zero offense doens't make up for it with his defense, then what good is he and why is he even on the floor? both the players you mentioned either have decent offensive and defensive games (rasho) or is an excellent shotblocker and rebounder (diop). to play, you have to contribute something. collins contributes nothing but mediocre defense.


So if he is that horrible why doesn't Kidd ask for the switch? He's not getting any younger and that bum is ruining his chances. Call up a NBDL player. I'm giving you a good opportunity to explain it. Help lead me out of the wilderness. 

FYI, Rasho averages are similar to Collins.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

philly paid us to take him probably because of his defense maybe he just didn't fit in the locker room. plus they had dalembert and were getting hunter. who knows. but you can't dispute that he is at least 10x the low post scorer that collins is


----------



## DareToBeYinka

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> philly paid us to take him probably because of his defense maybe he just didn't fit in the locker room. plus they had dalembert and were getting hunter. who knows. but you can't dispute that he is at least 10x the low post scorer that collins is


Do you not see how different those two statements are:

1. Jackson is a better lowpost scorer than Collins
2. Jackson is one of the best lowpost scorers in the NBA

So, which is it?


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> So if he is that horrible why doesn't Kidd ask for the switch? He's not getting any younger and that bum is ruining his chances. Call up a NBDL player. I'm giving you a good opportunity to explain it. Help lead me out of the wilderness.
> 
> FYI, Rasho averages are similar to Collins.


rasho also gets a whole lot less minutes than collins. and like you guys always like to say, it's not about the stats. watch rasho play and see the defensive plays he makes, the key blocks he has.

the reason they don't just call up any random nbdl player is ingrained in the ****ed up mentality of this team and its mgmt, which i don't expect a trusting believer like you to understand. but i'll try anyway. mgmt and the players are in love with collins, with his personality and locker room presence. plus, he's been there for 4 years, and knows the system. it's not gonna look good or sit well with some of the veterans of the team if u just call up some random guy from the nbdl and automatically insert him into the lineup, like he didn't have to work for it, while collins has all this history and is a hard worker. you just don't do that. there are much better and pr-friendly ways to go about it, like sign some big name players to actually do that, which they tried to do.

you don't see some rookie come in and take the place of an established veteran even if the rookie is a stud and better than the veteran in many ways othre than experience do you? unless his name is lebron


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



DareToBeYinka said:


> Do you not see how different those two statements are:
> 
> 1. Jackson is a better lowpost scorer than Collins
> 2. Jackson is one of the best lowpost scorers in the NBA
> 
> So, which is it?



i didnt say best. i said better. meaning he is in the top 30. best would be like top 15. get it straight.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> rasho also gets a whole lot less minutes than collins. and like you guys always like to say, it's not about the stats. watch rasho play and see the defensive plays he makes, the key blocks he has.
> 
> the reason they don't just call up any random nbdl player is ingrained in the ****ed up mentality of this team and its mgmt, which i don't expect a trusting believer like you to understand. but i'll try anyway. mgmt and the players are in love with collins, with his personality and locker room presence. plus, he's been there for 4 years, and knows the system. it's not gonna look good or sit well with some of the veterans of the team if u just call up some random guy from the nbdl and automatically insert him into the lineup, like he didn't have to work for it, while collins has all this history and is a hard worker. you just don't do that. there are much better and pr-friendly ways to go about it, like sign some big name players to actually do that, which they tried to do.
> 
> you don't see some rookie come in and take the place of an established veteran even if the rookie is a stud and better than the veteran in many ways othre than experience do you? unless his name is lebron


So again you are relying on Kidd's friendship with Collins as the reason he doesn't have him pushed to the bench. If Collins was as bad as you paint him to be why shouldn't they push him aside? Put Cliffy in the starting lineup. He's a veteran. Really, explain it to me better.


----------



## NetIncome

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> philly paid us to take him probably because of his defense maybe he just didn't fit in the locker room. plus they had dalembert and were getting hunter. who knows. but you can't dispute that he is at least 10x the low post scorer that collins is


You so easily dismiss defense as if it were a meaningless part of the game. 

Jackson was dumped because the Sixers were going to sign Hunter and wanted to avoid the luxury tax. Hunter was going to cost them more than they thought he would, other teams were also after him and so they had to move fast. The Nets were also in a bind because the trade exception was running out. Once they had agreed to abandon the Shareef Abdur-Rahim trade, they had hours to trade it. So King and Thorn had immediate needs the other could fulfill. King had to make a choice between Jackson, age 31, and Hunter, age 23. He liked Jackson but couldn't keep both. He made the smart move. 

Jackson is averaging the same 4.5 ppg for the Hornets he did for the Nets and not getting minutes because of his poor defense. In other words, it is entirely possible that he is at the end of his career and getting Nachbar may turn out to be a smart deal. Jackson cost the Nets nothing this year...The Nets got $3 million from the Sixers in cash in that deal which is about what they had to pay him before the trade. The issue would have been next year. He would have made $4.9 million. So instead of paying a 32-year-old $4.9 million over one year, they decided it was better to pay a 26-year-old $5 million over the next two years.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

it's not just kidd's friendship. it's the respect the whole team has for collins, and his history with the team, even though in reality he sucks. you can't just go disrespecting that by putting some random nbdl player who has no experience with the team in his place. and believe me, they would put cliff in the starting lineup if they could, but the fact is that cliff is a better player than collins, but in slightly different aspects. he's more of an sf, he's not gonna be able to bang with the shaqs like collins and play a lot of minutes given his age. plus if collins was on the bench who would score from the bench. it would be even more horrid than it is now.


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> rasho also gets a whole lot less minutes than collins. and like you guys always like to say, it's not about the stats. watch rasho play and see the defensive plays he makes, the key blocks he has.
> 
> the reason they don't just call up any random nbdl player is ingrained in the ****ed up mentality of this team and its mgmt, which i don't expect a trusting believer like you to understand. but i'll try anyway. mgmt and the players are in love with collins, with his personality and locker room presence. plus, he's been there for 4 years, and knows the system. it's not gonna look good or sit well with some of the veterans of the team if u just call up some random guy from the nbdl and automatically insert him into the lineup, like he didn't have to work for it, while collins has all this history and is a hard worker. you just don't do that. there are much better and pr-friendly ways to go about it, like sign some big name players to actually do that, which they tried to do.
> 
> you don't see some rookie come in and take the place of an established veteran even if the rookie is a stud and better than the veteran in many ways othre than experience do you? unless his name is lebron


Other than the fact that I think Collins is a handy guy to have on the bench and you probably don't, I think we're generally on the same side of this argument.

I agree with most of this post.

As for Marc Jackson, I'll go with my eyes, as well as those of 4 different organizations and say your evaluation of him is crazy.


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



NetIncome said:


> You so easily dismiss defense as if it were a meaningless part of the game.
> 
> Jackson was dumped because the Sixers were going to sign Hunter and wanted to avoid the luxury tax. Hunter was going to cost them more than they thought he would, other teams were also after him and so they had to move fast. The Nets were also in a bind because the trade exception was running out. Once they had agreed to abandon the Shareef Abdur-Rahim trade, they had hours to trade it. So King and Thorn had immediate needs the other could fulfill. King had to make a choice between Jackson, age 31, and Hunter, age 23. He liked Jackson but couldn't keep both. He made the smart move.
> 
> Jackson is averaging the same 4.5 ppg for the Hornets he did for the Nets and not getting minutes because of his poor defense. In other words, it is entirely possible that he is at the end of his career and getting Nachbar may turn out to be a smart deal. Jackson cost the Nets nothing this year...The Nets got $3 million from the Sixers in cash in that deal which is about what they had to pay him before the trade. The issue would have been next year. He would have made $4.9 million. So instead of paying a 32-year-old $4.9 million over one year, they decided it was better to pay a 26-year-old $5 million over the next two years.


good post. and i don't dismiss defense, i was just talking about jackson's low post scoring abilities, nothing about his defense. i just think collins doesn't provide enough of it to justify him being on the court.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



neoxsupreme said:


> Collins also had 2 pts, 1 rebound and 1 turnover in 32 minutes of floor time in the Hornets game. I know the Nets don't ask much of him except playing good defense, boxing out and setting solid screens but his statline is just outrageous. LOL. The worst fantasy player. But there is more to his impact than meets the eye on the boxscore.


his stats are bad, his defense is way overrated, but the sad truth is that even if cliffy averages 20,10 off the bench these people will still try to convince you that collins is the way to go. But i just want you guys to think about this one thing.

The thing that makes collins a bad player is that IF he can't defend a player (like yao) then he's completely useless! He can't make it up on the other end... Example on the other end of the court. Kyle Korver(or any other pure shooter), if his jumper isn't falling then he's completely useless to the 76ers! Cuz he can't do anything else good enough to help that team win! See if we played cliffy more and yao still droped 36pts, same shooting % and evertything, that would be ok because cliffy would have scored some points to counter yao's production! You guyes get what i'm saying?


----------



## DareToBeYinka

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> i didnt say best. i said better. meaning he is in the top 30. best would be like top 15. get it straight.


Top 30, gotcha :rofl:


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

how many big men do you think there are in this league?


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



kdub said:


> Again. Anyone notice Juwan Howard's statline?


See as a collin's defender you can't really bring in the stat line, cuz then its fair game to being in collins! And you know that collins' main job was to defend yao! He's had history of playing well vs yao, and the coaches know that, the fans know that, the rockets know that! Collins' main objective was to shut down yao!


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> Say in the 20 Minutes we got the normal average 8 points 5 rebs from a power forward
> 
> man how could would this team be if we just got the minimum average pf #'s
> 
> twin is holding us back from contention so he better step up his game or next year we get new pf


and if he can hit an open jumper that would be awsome... you guys' notice those great picks by collins! But do you still see those double teams fall on vc after those picks? How many times have you seen krstic and carter do a pick and roll, carter gets a double, and then passes to krstic for an open jumper!

omfg yes i said it... there are nba players other then collins do set picks!!!

yea so if collins could hit a jump shot or make a layup he would help our team alot, assuming that he sets all those great picks lol


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> blount had 18 pts yesterday and is the starter on the twolves. just because boston didn't like him and his defense isn't that great doesn't come close to putting him on the level of collins. get real.


he's also an underrated rebounder isn't he?


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Hbwoy said:


> Because Mark Blount is a tease, he plays good today and then disappears the other. As much as I think Collins is a waste on the court, I'd rather have him than some guys who are just thinking of when their next pay check is coming. Would you rather have Olowokandi than Collins


candy wouldn't be good in our system. But why wouldn't you have a player like blount??? Atleast he shows you promice... its easier to get an inconsistant good player to play more consistant, then it is to make a bad player a consistant good player


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> like i said it's not like we don't know what a healthy collins can do. nothing.


lol do you guys think that collins will ever get healthy and be able to play 82 games streight + playoffs?


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Never, but I trust that the guy knows when someone is injured as severly as he says. There isn't much room for interpretation there. He's actually stating what he knows has been told to him and admitting he was told it.


I got a question for you? Why don't the nets let him rest till playoff time! Like you said we can't win alot with only 2 bigs... so how well do you think he's gonna do vs playoff teams in a 7 game series?


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



NBASCOUT2005 said:


> The NETS' roster isn't a hospital ward! If you want to watch the Special Olympics, fine, then you shouldn't be watching NETS' basketball.


lol no no if you want to watch the special oyimpics basketball you have to watch jason collins... cuz his play is retarted


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> *it's not just kidd's friendship. it's the respect the whole team has for collins, and his history with the team, even though in reality he sucks*. you can't just go disrespecting that by putting some random nbdl player who has no experience with the team in his place. and believe me, they would put cliff in the starting lineup if they could, but the fact is that cliff is a better player than collins, but in slightly different aspects. he's more of an sf, he's not gonna be able to bang with the shaqs like collins and play a lot of minutes given his age. plus if collins was on the bench who would score from the bench. it would be even more horrid than it is now.


:laugh: Too funny. Yes, the entire team has blinders on regarding how bad Collins really is because of their devotion to him. Admit it, the guy isn't the best player on the planet, but he is better than you make him out to be.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



DareToBeYinka said:


> Do you not see how different those two statements are:
> 
> 1. Jackson is a better lowpost scorer than Collins
> 2. Jackson is one of the best lowpost scorers in the NBA
> 
> So, which is it?


when did he say #2?


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> I got a question for you? Why don't the nets let him rest till playoff time! *Like you said we can't win alot with only 2 bigs*... so how well do you think he's gonna do vs playoff teams in a 7 game series?


Because like I said they won't get to the playoffs with only 2 bigs.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> i didnt say best. i said better. meaning he is in the top 30. best would be like top 15. get it straight.


yea jax was top 30 in low post, but his other stuff wans't that great....


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> So if he is that horrible why doesn't Kidd ask for the switch? He's not getting any younger and that bum is ruining his chances. Call up a NBDL player. I'm giving you a good opportunity to explain it. Help lead me out of the wilderness.
> 
> FYI, Rasho averages are similar to Collins.


man you know why... nbdl players are raw! and i think that thenets have too much pride to actually do that. PS you think that L will allow a nbdl player to play? **** we should bring in jabari smith lol he was awsome(joke)!!


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> yea jax was top 30 in low post, but his other stuff wans't that great....


He originally said better low-post scorers of this era! Not sure how he is defining era, but I wouldn't even put him in the top 100 of the last 10 years.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> man you know why... nbdl players are raw! and i think that thenets have too much pride to actually do that. PS you think that L will allow a nbdl player to play? **** we should bring in jabari smith lol he was awsome(joke)!!


I was pushing the extreme to make a point. If Kidd, who plays the sport daily and is heading to the HOF, thought Collins was as bad as Nuno0515 makes him out to be, then Kidd would ask for a NBDL player over him. That's the level to which Nuno ranks Collins. If that. Either Nuno knows more than Kidd about the sport or Collins is better than he gives him credit.


----------



## Petey

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> they don't start cliff for a variety of reasons. it's not as simple as the best player starts. collins is bigger than cliff. cliff is 40, and they need his scoring punch off the bench. cliff is really a sf/pf who is asked to play strictly pf. u have to look at the overall makeup of the players on the floor before you go saying why a player starts and why he doesn't


Cliff also plays best when his minutes are limited.

-Petey


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Again with the last summer. I'm talking now! Within the past month or so? You honestly think if Kidd thought the guy was as bad as you make him out to be  his words with the coach wouldn't carry weight? Particularly when this coach got his job from Kidd bouncing Byron?


Do you not notice things???? Give me a list of players that management attempted to get? The majority of that list (starting from the vc trade) has been for a lagit power forward!!! During the offseason we were looking for shooters and a POWER FORWARD!!!! During the begining of the season we were looking for a POWER FORWARD!!!!! The week of the trade deadline we were looking for a POWERFORWARD!!!!!! Hell after the trade we were still looking for a POWERFORWARD!!! 

DO YOU NOTICE A TREND Netted????????????????????????????????????

wtf???? Are you guys legally retarded... the nets are looking to replace collins!!!! They just publicty support him because they don't have anyone else to play and they gave him a long term contract! They are probably still trying to hide the kmart trade (for only picks)!~ 

you honestly think that the nets management/coach is 100% truthful??? **** NO!


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> I was pushing the extreme to make a point. If Kidd, who plays the sport daily and is heading to the HOF, thought Collins was as bad as Nuno0515 makes him out to be, then Kidd would ask for a NBDL player over him. That's the level to which Nuno ranks Collins. If that. Either Nuno knows more than Kidd about the sport or Collins is better than he gives him credit.


or its a PR stunt!!! Don't forget the nba is about business... thats why players like AI don't get traded very often, its all about the money. If management can convince you(the fans) that collins is a good enough player to watch which leads to more fans paying money to sit in CAA! Then management will almost 100% say that!


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

netted i think you underestimate the weight respect carries on a team, especially if it eminates from mgmt and is supported by the team. we're not just talking about friendship. we're talking about respect, seniority, and history

and as far as era goes, i meant today ok. this very moment.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> Do you not notice things???? Give me a list of players that management attempted to get? The majority of that list (starting from the vc trade) has been for a lagit power forward!!! During the offseason we were looking for shooters and a POWER FORWARD!!!! During the begining of the season we were looking for a POWER FORWARD!!!!! The week of the trade deadline we were looking for a POWERFORWARD!!!!!! Hell after the trade we were still looking for a POWERFORWARD!!!
> 
> DO YOU NOTICE A TREND Netted????????????????????????????????????
> 
> wtf???? Are you guys legally retarded... the nets are looking to replace collins!!!! They just publicty support him because they don't have anyone else to play and they gave him a long term contract! They are probably still trying to hide the kmart trade (for only picks)!~
> 
> you honestly think that the nets management/coach is 100% truthful??? **** NO!


Jesus Fn Christ. Did I not say they were looking to upgrade? Do you not read what I write? What the hell does that have to do with the damn post I made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about retarded! Like I said I'm talking about now, not last summer.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> I was pushing the extreme to make a point. If Kidd, who plays the sport daily and is heading to the HOF, thought Collins was as bad as Nuno0515 makes him out to be, then Kidd would ask for a NBDL player over him. That's the level to which Nuno ranks Collins. If that. Either Nuno knows more than Kidd about the sport or Collins is better than he gives him credit.


keep it real... you arn't gonna win with statements like that lol


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Petey said:


> Cliff also plays best when his minutes are limited.
> 
> -Petey


 true, but he can still start and play limited min! Remember when kidd came back from his knee surgary... they played him in limited min the first month or so


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Jesus Fn Christ. *Did I not say they were looking to upgrade?* Do you not read what I write? What the hell does that have to do with the damn post I made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about retarded! Like I said I'm talking about now, not last summer.


when did you say that? oh yea whatever anyone said on pages 6,7,8 i didn't really read all of those posts lol


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



nuno0515 said:


> netted i think you underestimate the weight respect carries on a team, especially if it eminates from mgmt and is supported by the team. we're not just talking about friendship. we're talking about respect, seniority, and history
> 
> and as far as era goes, i meant today ok. this very moment.


And I think you over estimate it to suit your argument. Didn't the K-Mart fiasco teach you anything. Winning is a huge priority in decision making. 

And BTW, era is not now. It's a period of time.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> marc jackson would have been giving us 3x better #'s in 27 mpg
> 
> buuuuuuuut wait they trade him for nachbar who gonna rot on bench for 2 more years.



i think the biggest mistake that the nets made was replacing atrain with krstic. Remember one big had to be scraficed for krstic to play more. I think that it was collins who should have sit down. Then we would have had a more stedy backup who can play defense, who can rebound and is a lagit backup player in the league. He also has a power game and a good post game! A solid 10,7 a night comming off the bench!

I remember at one point we had 4 centers lol... those were the good ol days


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Jesus Fn Christ. Did I not say they were looking to upgrade? Do you not read what I write? What the hell does that have to do with the damn post I made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about retarded! Like I said I'm talking about now, not last summer.


Wait so re-establish all your facts, because this is what i'm hearing from you:

1. Collins should start for the nets
2. Collins is a very underrated player
3. Having a one sided game is a perfect fit for a starting player
4. Management, L, and players think that Collins is a great player so he must me
5. You think that collins is the weakest link thus an upgrade at that posistion is needed
6. You are talking about the now
7. You think that we can't get into the playoffs w/o collins (this season)!


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> i think the biggest mistake that the nets made was replacing atrain with krstic. Remember one big had to be scraficed for krstic to play more. I think that it was collins who should have sit down. Then we would have had a more stedy backup who can play defense, who can rebound and is a lagit backup player in the league. He also has a power game and a good post game! A solid 10,7 a night comming off the bench!
> 
> I remember at one point we had 4 centers lol... those were the good ol days


Krstic started getting more minutes after  atrain was traded for Carter. I think Atrain had injury issue at the begining of last season.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Krstic started getting more minutes after  atrain was traded for Carter. I think Atrain had injury issue at the begining of last season.


 no there just wasn't enough space in the rotation

Collins
Zo
Ewill
Atrain
Krstic

we were 2-11 and management forced L to play krstic...so someone had to be cut


----------



## reganomics813

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> *i think the biggest mistake that the nets made was replacing atrain with krstic. Remember one big had to be scraficed for krstic to play more*. I think that it was collins who should have sit down. Then we would have had a more stedy backup who can play defense, who can rebound and is a lagit backup player in the league. He also has a power game and a good post game! A solid 10,7 a night comming off the bench!
> 
> I remember at one point we had 4 centers lol... those were the good ol days



What?!?! Now you're so way off of yer point it's crazy. ATrain was a nice hustle guy but the Nets always favored having Collins in because we were a better when he was on the floor like him or not. We also still wouldn't have ATrain because we wouldn't have Vince. Nenad's improved play ,which was a direct result of playing alongside Collins, helped in Rod's decision to gut or depth to get Vince. Call me crazy but i'd rather have VC than Atrain and eveyone else who was sent to Toronto to get him. We also, in recent history, haven't had 4 centers. We usually had one or two legit ones who never panned out and two other guys who could swing to that position and one was usually Collins.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> Wait so re-establish all your facts, because this is what i'm hearing from you:
> 
> 1. Collins should start for the nets
> 2. Collins is a very underrated player
> 3. Having a one sided game is a perfect fit for a starting player
> 4. Management, L, and players think that Collins is a great player so he must me
> 5. You think that collins is the weakest link thus an upgrade at that posistion is needed
> 6. You are talking about the now
> 7. You think that we can't get into the playoffs w/o collins (this season)!


I'm sending you to reading comprehension class. You are so filled with anger towards Collins you are putting words in my mouth.

1. Right now? Yes. Look at other threads and I stated 90+% of the board would probably agree he is really a back-up center. I told you he even wasn't a 4.

2. Collins is underappreciated and not the total garbage you and some other posters make him out to be. If you only look at stats you will never understand why his teammates appreciate him.

3. Where did I ever say perfect fit? It can work if you have 4 other players that are very good scorers.

4. Management, L and the players have an appreciation for what Collins does that make him a good contributor to the team. No one is calling him a great player. They rarely lose a game due to Collins because the team is not designed for him to be the reason.

5. The Nets can do better at the 4. Collins should be the back-up center. He is not athletic enough to play the 4. Hopefully in the offseason they can do a better job fixing it.

6. With regards to living with Collins and being happy we at least have him as a 3rd big man, yes i am talking about the now.

7. It would be very tough to get to the playoffs with only 2 bigs. Maybe the 8th seed because Chicago is pretty terrible. Milwaukee would be better than us with only 2 bigs.

Got it?


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



reganomics813 said:


> What?!?! Now you're so way off of yer point it's crazy. ATrain was a nice hustle guy but the Nets always favored having Collins in because we were a better when he was on the floor like him or not. We also still wouldn't have ATrain because we wouldn't have Vince. Nenad's improved play ,which was a direct result of playing alongside Collins, helped in Rod's decision to gut or depth to get Vince. Call me crazy but i'd rather have VC than Atrain and eveyone else who was sent to Toronto to get him. We also, in recent history, haven't had 4 centers. We usually had one or two legit ones who never panned out and two other guys who could swing to that position and one was usually Collins.


yea ur right... i think it was 4 powerforwards! I don't remember so lets get off that topic

also the think i was saying was that instead of sitting train, the nets should have sat down collins! I remember alot of people saying the same thing last year!


----------



## reganomics813

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> 7. It would be very tough to get to the playoffs with only 2 bigs. Maybe the 8th seed because Chicago is pretty terrible. Milwaukee would be better than us with only 2 bigs.


And even they are better than that! They have Bogut, Magliore, Joe Smith, Gadzuric, and if everyone else dies in a bus accident Ervin Johnson. They have way more big weapons at tehir disposal than we do. Although to reitterate yer point they do only play really Smith, Bogut, and Magliore with Gadzilla playing when Smith was injured and look where that's gotten them.


----------



## reganomics813

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Lord-SMX said:


> yea ur right... i think it was 4 powerforwards! I don't remember so lets get off that topic
> 
> also the think i was saying was that instead of sitting train, the nets should have sat down collins! I remember alot of people saying the same thing last year!



I understood what you were saying but it's flawed reasoning. Alot of people wanted Collins' head last year but he was integral in easing Nenad into an already difficult situation for a rook. ATrain was a nice hustle guy who had solid contributions when he played but we needed more structured players who knew/ran the offense on the floor with Nenad to get him accustomed to it during games. Aaron socred mostly off of broken plays or hustle points and we needed more than that at the time. If it wasn't for Jason's contirbutions Nenad would'nt be half as far along as he is today based on how foul prone he was. The trial by fire approach worked for Nenad because along with Collins he played with experienced vets who showed him the way. Aaron is one of my all time favorte Nets but he in no way is gonna be able to show a rookie Serbian kid the ropes.


----------



## kdub

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

I think the point of this thread is:

Get Etan Thomas in a Nets jersey!


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

point of this thread is get any pf besides jason collins in a nets jersey.

jason collins is without a doubt the worst starting player in nba history when its all said and done.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> point of this thread is get any pf besides jason collins in a nets jersey.
> 
> *jason collins is without a doubt the worst starting player in nba history when its all said and done.*


you could not be more wrong.


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



mjm1 said:


> you could not be more wrong.



find me one everyday starter that was worse.


----------



## Jizzy

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

l still want to know why and how Carter15Nets is still allowed to post here? Am I the only one who can see he is not even a Nets fan? Ban his *** already!!!


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



jizzy said:


> l still want to know why and how Carter15Nets is still allowed to post here? Am I the only one who can see he is not even a Nets fan? Ban his *** already!!!



u should be banned before me for ur masked vulgar name calling, harrassing other posters, and lameness.


----------



## Jizzy

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Pathetic clown Didnt you say you jumped ship and became a Heats fan? What a coward


----------



## Krstic All-Star

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Both of you need to cool it down right now.


----------



## L

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



kdub said:


> I think the point of this thread is:
> 
> Get Etan Thomas in a Nets jersey!


i wish he would come on over!!! :banana:


anyways, in regards to collins, he is just at the level of a backup. but he does the little things and in the case of him guarding yao last night, the nets defensive stragedy(sp?) was to just guard yao the same way they guard shaq: one on one and then having someone in front of shaq/yao in order to deflect the entry pass. this way, the role players for the other team will have a hard time to score. it worked last night, causing guys like rafer, howard, and swift to struggle fg% wise.


in regards to etan thomas, he is the type of big we need. sucks that his contract is somewhat big and the wizards really do not want to lose probably their best big.


----------



## Real

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> find me one everyday starter that was worse.


http://probasketball.about.com/od/player1/a/worstNBAplayers.htm


----------



## nuno0515

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

wow that list is horrid. mopete? radman? diop? wagner? deke? kareem rush? googs? mercer? juwan howard? mercer? jj? dickau? hunter? lue? wow, just wow...


----------



## Dumpy

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Changing the subject, my biggest fear with regard to Collins is that he is on the downside of his career at the tender age of 25, and will quickly lose what little effectiveness he has left. He can contribute right now just because he is a smart player and knows what to do despite his physical limitations. I'm worried that his physical problems are a direct result of his size and weight--that he weighs too much for his body to take. Problem is, he can't significantly slim down without negatively affecting his effectiveness. I'm worried that his leg problems are becoming chronic, and only retirement will allow him to heal. I worry because a healthy Collins can clearly contribute to a winning team (despite what some people say), and he'll be harder to replace than anyone expects. He is big, bulky, and plays a very physical game. He's paying the price. He never reveals his injuries, so it is hard to judge what he is going through or for how long he's been hurting. But think about it: this is a guy who in the past has said that he just "doesn't take days off," that if he can walk, he's gonna play. Yet despite his resolve he has missed a bunch of games this year. 

Again, I fear for Jason Collins' inevitable decline. I really hope I'm wrong, because I'd love to see the Nets win a title with Collins playing a material role.


----------



## Jizzy

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

I really admire Collins for working his *** off every game and not taking any days. A true warrior and the definition of a role player. I for one am proud to have him as a Net


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

That list is BS

Are you telling me Juwan Howard is worse than COllins?

And I said everyday starters...most if not all of those guys arent.


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

I have no problems with probably anyone on the nets but for years i have hated jason collins. guys such a stiff

i just cant get enough of him going up and getting blocked or missing a 2 foot layup whne anyone else his size dunks it. 

3.5 ppg 4+ rpg 0.000000000000000000000029 bpg 38% fg shooter for 7 footer lmao 49% ft shooter

in 27 minutes per game YES 27 MINUTES PER GAME....what production

defense overated too....gives up 20/10 to shaq and people all over him oh what a great job jason!!! ya only got outscored by probably 15 points and 5 rebounds. that means other 4 positions and bench need to make up for it.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Maybe your age really is 5.


----------



## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Wow Collins gets this much hate after a win, I cant even think about what would happen in a loss.


----------



## jarkid

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Collins is a "Warrior", because he always causes the arguing war to this board.


----------



## L

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

I know when i play basketball, i play defense like collins ( im actually pretty tall for my age. 5'11-6'0 feet). 
i can hit the occasional jumper (like collins, but with more consistency). I mean when i watch a nets game, i learn a few more moves for defense each time ( and i had a lot of help from my cousin, who is really good at basketball. its not like u watch one game and learn everything u need to know for basketball, ).
So in a way, i owe collins for teaching me indirectly on how to play D.


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Marc Jackson owning Duncan by the way tonight.


----------



## NEWARK NETS

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

collins is my dude. for the most part when he plas no matter his stats..we win point plank..when he is out we struggle...so stop the hate...stop reading that stat line all day..thats wak....you guys are a bunch of stat whores..relax..a win is a win


----------



## NoWright4U

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



NEWARK NETS said:


> collins is my dude. for the most part when he plas no matter his stats..we win point plank..when he is out we struggle...so stop the hate...stop reading that stat line all day..thats wak....you guys are a bunch of stat whores..relax..a win is a win


Amen.
Your right, but really we need an upgrade over Collins. This guy even when not hurt, has been playing like crap. If he wasn't friends with KIDD and RJ, this guy would have been long gone a long time ago. I haven't seen any improvements each season. There is no reason why he's given minutes.
Getting Kaman or Murphy is a big upgrade over Collins.

I use to love Collins, but if you can't make shots from point blank range, and rebound, then you are useless. I rather have Chris Dudley in the paint than Collins.


----------



## DevonTheGreat

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



> I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins


I don't know of an NBA-caliber big man who can't.

Honestly, he does have his value and while an upgrade would help he is the definition of a classy role player. Limited, of course, but far from useless.


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Tonight he will get owned by Zach Randolph.


----------



## L

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> Tonight he will get owned by Zach Randolph.


Is that so? If i remeber correctly, collins pwned zach on Defense last time those two met.


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

What Is Pwning? Giving Up 18 Points 8 Rebounds And Scoring 4 Pts 3 Rebs Urself?


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> What Is Pwning? Giving Up 18 Points 8 Rebounds And Scoring 4 Pts 3 Rebs Urself?


This stuff always cracks me up. Some people think this is a game of 1-on-1 times 5. Like if a player in one position scores 10 the opposing player in the same position has to do more otherwise they haven't done their part. I've seen this a few times by some posters the past few days. :laugh:


----------



## L

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

yeah, 18 points. all from jumpers.
if u watched the game, collins kept him out of the post the majority of the game. not only that, but he also poked the ball lose from randolph a few times as well. watch the game instead of looking at the stats carter15nets. :idea:


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

i just dont get why u people love jason collins thats all

i mean the guys the biggest joke on the team and u people still love him 

die hard fans bash this guy


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> i just dont get why u people love jason collins thats all
> 
> i mean the guys the biggest joke on the team and u people still love him
> 
> *die hard fans bash this guy*


You have no idea what you are talking about on so many levels. And just because people understand what Collins brings to the table it doesn't mean they think he is a great player. 

We just have more of a hatred for basketball ignorance than for Collins lack of basketball skills. :biggrin:


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> die hard fans bash this guy



I think it's the other way around.


----------



## L

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> i just dont get why u people love jason collins thats all
> 
> i mean the guys the biggest joke on the team and u people still love him
> 
> *die hard fans bash this guy*


um last time i checked, u quit bein a nets fan.


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

And @ Halftime........

Zach Randolph 6/9 FG 4/5 FT 16 Points in just 15 minutes

Jason Collins 0/2 FG 0/0 FT 0 Points in 17 minutes


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> And @ Halftime........
> 
> Zach Randolph 6/9 FG 4/5 FT 16 Points in just 15 minutes
> 
> Jason Collins 0/2 FG 0/0 FT 0 Points in 17 minutes


Wow!

Vince Carter 5-10 FG, 6-8 FT 19 points 

Viktor Khryapa 0-1 FG, 0-0 FT 0 Points


I really don't understand your posts.


----------



## Jizzy

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Carter15Nets is not even a Nets fan, GODDAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't understand why he is not banned yet?


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

what are you talking about jizzball?


----------



## jarkid

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

jizzy you are overreacting, Carter15Nets is an *****, yes, but it's funny to see him to post article.


----------



## fruitcake

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Carter15Nets:

on November 2nd, 2005, at 7:54 pm

your 10th post ever on bbb.net, you said:



Carter15Nets said:


> Jason Collins > S.A.R.


Link


----------



## Real

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> *die hard fans* bash this guy


Sure they do. 

http://web.basketballboards.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3261016&postcount=1


----------



## jarkid

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



fruitcake said:


> Carter15Nets:
> 
> on November 2nd, 2005, at 7:54 pm
> 
> your 10th post ever on bbb.net, you said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link


haha, Carter15Nets must defend himself again... :clap:


----------



## fruitcake

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

2 points
8 rebounds (4 offensive)
3 assists
2 steals
1 block
2 turnoers
1 for 3 shooting
1 foul

in 35 min

no hate today?


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Ralpholf torched him


----------



## Krstic All-Star

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Randolph torches a lot of players, averaging nearly 19 and 9 a game points to it. Collins was pretty good, especially on help D this game.


----------



## reganomics813

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Krstic All Star said:


> Randolph torches a lot of players, averaging nearly 19 and 9 a game points to it. Collins was pretty good, especially on help D this game.


Most def. Not once did Randolph take a wide open jumper. JC was always right in his face but Randolph hit some tough shots. Nobody else in the L would have stopped him either. Randolph is a great face the basket bigman where Collins can't put his hands on the guy and he also knows that Zach has good handles so he gave him a tiny bit of daylight out of respect and Zach just happened to be on fire where that was all he needed. The best way to guard him is to keep him taking jumpers because he will miss some instead of letting him get rolling down low where he's an and 1 waiting to happen. JC played him perfectly and while statistically he may have 'torched' Collins but he made 9 for 21 shots and in doing so he made it difficult for anybody else on his team to get going offensively in the process. Randolph can drop 30 easy when he really gets going, 24 and 7 is just another average game from him and some of the points were where he capatalized on Murray guarding him so JC actually held him to less than even that. You can't shut down every guy in the league you can only hope to keep certain guys under their average, Collins did just that and the Nets won. It's weird how those two things seem to go hand in hand isn't it?


----------



## pmga

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Net2 said:


> I dare you to defend yourself...


lol


----------



## pmga

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



fruitcake said:


> 2 points
> 8 rebounds (4 offensive)
> 3 assists
> 2 steals
> 1 block
> 2 turnoers
> 1 for 3 shooting
> 1 foul
> 
> in 35 min
> 
> no hate today?


That's kinda low for 35 min. . .


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



pmga said:


> That's kinda low for 35 min. . .


The Nets will win every game if Collins has those stats.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Krstic All Star said:


> Randolph torches a lot of players, averaging nearly 19 and 9 a game points to it. Collins was pretty good, especially on help D this game.


To start the second half Collins was really good on Randolph. He adjusted and limited him to 8 points on 3 of 12 shooting in the 2nd half.


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> To start the second half Collins was really good on Randolph. He adjusted and limited him to 8 points on 3 of 12 shooting in the 2nd half.


 you can't really count the 4th quarter... what did randolf do in the 3rd q?

i'm saying u can't really count the 4th quarter, because EVERYONE steppedup the d... and the entire team played defense and only allowed 5 pts int eh 4th!


----------



## Lord-SMX

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



ghoti said:


> The Nets will win every game if Collins has those stats.



true and that just proves that all that stuff about how stats do matter is right!


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

Jason Collins 0 Points
Dirk Nowitzki season high 37 points

7 minutes to go in 4th....


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> Jason Collins 0 Points
> Dirk Nowitzki season high 37 points
> 
> 7 minutes to go in 4th....


 Of couse you don't post when collins was guarding him in the first half and he struggled.


----------



## Jizzy

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> Jason Collins 0 Points
> Dirk Nowitzki season high 37 points
> 
> 7 minutes to go in 4th....




I didn't think you were this much of a fraud and a clown but I guess you are


----------



## Petey

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> Jason Collins 0 Points
> Dirk Nowitzki season high 37 points
> 
> 7 minutes to go in 4th....


Guy like Tim Duncan even have problems with Dirk.

-Petey


----------



## fruitcake

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

bump---


Carter15Nets:

on November 2nd, 2005, at 7:54 pm

your 10th post ever on bbb.net, you said:



Carter15Nets said:


> Jason Collins > S.A.R.


Link


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

gUYS LIKE DUNCAN DROP 30 AND GRAB 15 REBS AND MAKE UP FOR IT THOUGH UNLIKE JASON COLLINS 0 PTS 5 REBS HE ALSO LET DALLAS GRAB ABOUT 5 OFFENSIVE REBS SO U CAN SAY 0 PTS 0 REBS

AND I HATE S.A.R. THATS WHY I POSTED THAT, I NEVER WANTED RAHIM. HE SCORES 15 AND GIVES UP 25 TO BUMS.


----------



## fruitcake

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> *AND I HATE S.A.R. THATS WHY I POSTED THAT, I NEVER WANTED RAHIM. HE SCORES 15 AND GIVES UP 25 TO BUMS.*


collins scores 5 and gives up 15-20 to superstars.


----------



## Netted

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> gUYS LIKE DUNCAN DROP 30 AND GRAB 15 REBS AND MAKE UP FOR IT THOUGH UNLIKE JASON COLLINS 0 PTS 5 REBS HE ALSO LET DALLAS GRAB ABOUT 5 OFFENSIVE REBS SO U CAN SAY 0 PTS 0 REBS
> 
> AND I HATE S.A.R. THATS WHY I POSTED THAT, I NEVER WANTED RAHIM. HE SCORES 15 AND GIVES UP 25 TO BUMS.


Again people seem to think this is a game of 1-on-1 times 5. The Nets won by a bundle and they still point to Collins lack of points. :krazy:


----------



## DareToBeYinka

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> gUYS LIKE DUNCAN DROP 30 AND GRAB 15 REBS AND MAKE UP FOR IT THOUGH UNLIKE JASON COLLINS 0 PTS 5 REBS HE ALSO LET DALLAS GRAB ABOUT 5 OFFENSIVE REBS SO U CAN SAY 0 PTS 0 REBS
> 
> AND I HATE S.A.R. THATS WHY I POSTED THAT, I NEVER WANTED RAHIM. HE SCORES 15 AND GIVES UP 25 TO BUMS.


Yes, Collins "let" Dallas grab 5 offensive rebounds, thus canceling out his rebounds total.

Do you not realize, or not care, how utterly idiotic that sounds?


----------



## L

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Netted- said:


> Again people seem to think this is a game of 1-on-1 times 5. The Nets won by a bundle and they still point to Collins lack of points. :krazy:


one must also remember that randolph and dirk got the majority of their points from jumpshots. i hardly saw dirk make a inside shot tonight.
and when we defend against an allstar big (excluding shaq, because collins usually draws him into an offensive foul) , it is usually a team effort on defense against that on player. we always give the other player different looks when we play defense. so collins isnt always guarding the best big on the other team.


----------



## XRay34

*Still don't think we need a PF?*

Riiiiiiiiiight


----------



## Petey

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

Of course... a PF would had solved the Nets draught in the 3rd.

-Petey


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*



Petey said:


> Of course... a PF would had solved the Nets draught in the 3rd.
> 
> -Petey


 Only makes sense.


----------



## killa kadafi191

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

i'll always think that but wait and see what this team can do this season before we should really pursue one


----------



## ZÆ

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

we have John Thomas


----------



## l2owen

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

^^ speaking of a thomas , Tyrus Thomas in this upcoming draft would be perfect for our PF needs. a trade between us and the raptors/ bobcats/ hawks sending richard jefferson their way in exchange for tyrus thomas and another asset? that would be ideal.


----------



## XRay34

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

Collins/Robinson combined:

1-8 FG
5 Points
10 Fouls
7 Rebounds 
1 BS

Jermaine O'Neal by himself

12-15 FG
33 Points
14 Rebounds
4 Blocks

Nets biggest flaw (POWER FOWARD) costs them another 1st round exist.

Way to step up Rod Thorn......Chris Wilcox or even Swift would have this team in ECF easily.


----------



## killa kadafi191

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

Kevin Garnett Who Else.


----------



## Mogriffjr

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*



Carter15Nets said:


> Collins/Robinson combined:
> 
> 1-8 FG
> 5 Points
> 10 Fouls
> 7 Rebounds
> 1 BS
> 
> Jermaine O'Neal by himself
> 
> 12-15 FG
> 33 Points
> 14 Rebounds
> 4 Blocks
> 
> Nets biggest flaw (POWER FOWARD) costs them another 1st round exist.
> 
> Way to step up Rod Thorn......Chris Wilcox or even Swift would have this team in ECF easily.



Wilcox and Swift aren't known as good defenders neither...try again


----------



## XRay34

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

Sure they arent

Check swifts block/per 48

wilcox better upgrade that walking statue cliff robinson


----------



## Rollydog

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

I still think Nenad is better than O'Neal. Because he's sooooo much younger. O'Neal is almost at the end of his prime! DER DER DER!


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*



Carter15Nets said:


> Collins/Robinson combined:
> 
> 1-8 FG
> 5 Points
> 10 Fouls
> 7 Rebounds
> 1 BS
> 
> Jermaine O'Neal by himself
> 
> 12-15 FG
> 33 Points
> 14 Rebounds
> 4 Blocks
> 
> Nets biggest flaw (POWER FOWARD) costs them another 1st round exist.
> 
> Way to step up Rod Thorn......Chris Wilcox or even Swift would have this team in ECF easily.


 damn, it's a three game series now?


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*



Carter15Nets said:


> Sure they arent
> 
> Check swifts block/per 48
> 
> wilcox better upgrade that walking statue cliff robinson


 swift is a horrible basketball player.


----------



## killa kadafi191

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*



Rollydog said:


> I still think Nenad is better than O'Neal. Because he's sooooo much younger. O'Neal is almost at the end of his prime! DER DER DER!



o neal was an all star, been to ECF mvp canidate you can't compare his career to a two year player. 

commmmmme on.


that's like comparing chris paul to j kidd.


you have to wait and see.


edit left off somethings

MIP award 

3 time all nba team player


----------



## XRay34

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*

Yea swift is horrible but collins is a stud

ever heard of system basketball?

did u see wilcox @ LAC? do you see him now with the up and down Sonics?


----------



## Mogriffjr

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*



Carter15Nets said:


> Sure they arent
> 
> Check swifts block/per 48
> 
> wilcox better upgrade that walking statue cliff robinson


Wrong, Swift only defense is his blocking ability...why doesn't he get PT ON THE ROCKETS???

Wilcox is only better on offense than Cliff...try again


----------



## XRay34

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

J. Collins F 0-4 0-0 0-0 0 Points 6 Rebounds 5 Fouls 1 Block
J. O'Neal F 12-15 0-0 13-14 37 Points 15 Rebounds 3 Fouls 4 Blocks

In the biggest game of the season...


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> J. Collins F 0-4 0-0 0-0 0 Points 6 Rebounds 5 Fouls 1 Block
> J. O'Neal F 12-15 0-0 13-14 37 Points 15 Rebounds 3 Fouls 4 Blocks
> 
> In the biggest game of the season...


E-X-P-O-S-E-D!


----------



## ghoti

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> J. Collins F 0-4 0-0 0-0 0 Points 6 Rebounds 5 Fouls 1 Block
> J. O'Neal F 12-15 0-0 13-14 37 Points 15 Rebounds 3 Fouls 4 Blocks
> 
> In the biggest game of the season...


Make a point.

Just posting statlines isn't analysis.


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: Still don't think we need a PF?*



Carter15Nets said:


> wilcox better upgrade that walking statue cliff robinson


Twin and Cliffy don't hurt the team against prime competition when the balance of the team plays over their heads. Otherwise, they turn into walking statues against the better big men in the league. That truth is constantly exposed in high-level matchups during the playoffs. There is _NO_ professional courtesy to mediocre big men during most of the playoffs!


----------



## NoWright4U

Same old Collins. Healthy or not, he's the same old Collins.


----------



## NetIncome

NoWright4U said:


> Same old Collins. Healthy or not, he's the same old Collins.


Yup...he took Eddy Curry out of the game with those two offensive fouls.


----------



## ravor44

another bumped thread? not again...


----------



## NetFan48

ravor44 said:


> another bumped thread? not again...


There has to be one thousand big men in the last six years , that if they played as much as collins , they would be ten times better.Especially playing w JKIDD. The BIG MISTAKES that he makes by no means , compensate for those supposed little things that he does.He is hurting the NETS more than he is helping them. Some of you guy's make it sound like he is Ben Wallace on defense. He isn't even close , but this is where he should be by now.......................


----------



## SetShotWilly

lol. It never ends for this guy


----------



## truth

As long as Jason Collins is the starting PF,the Nets will one and done..or dam close


----------



## ghoti

truth said:


> As long as Jason Collins is the starting PF,the Nets will one and done..or dam close


So how did he start for two finals teams?


----------



## reganomics813

truth said:


> As long as Jason Collins is the starting PF,the Nets will one and done..or dam close


Haha I love Knicks fans. We say one bad thing on their board they flip out but they feel free to come here and bash all they want. I'm glad we have a place for them to troll, they might explode if they don't.


----------



## HB

I will just say this, there isnt too much changed in his game from last season till now. His offense is still nonexistent and he has no lift whatsoever. So basically put, if you didnt like him last season your sentiments wont be changing this year.


----------



## Real

truth said:


> As long as Jason Collins is the starting PF,the Nets will one and done..or dam close


Funny, we weren't one and done last year, and we went to the finals twice with him starting, so your claim is basically false.


----------



## Guest

jason collins is the best big man the nets have ever had in the 21st century. :biggrin:


----------



## ly_yng

Blah blah blah blah statistics blah blah blah blah Jason Collins blah blah blah blah bad player blah blah never going to win blah blah blah.

You do realize that Nenad Krstic, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson have never, ever, ever complained about our power forward situation? Kidd's got enough sway in the organization to get the coach fired, but he can't get a 7 footer with a 1 inch vertical averaging 2 ppg out of the starting lineup? 

Obviously, Collins is doing something right.


----------



## truth

Real said:


> Funny, we weren't one and done last year, and we went to the finals twice with him starting, so your claim is basically false.


Pardon my ignorance,but does Jason Collins play the 4 or the 5??

My claim was with him at the 4,you guys are one and done,or dam close....

Perhaps I should have made it clearer.Without an athletic talented big to play alongside Collins,you are one and done..or close


----------



## Real

truth said:


> Pardon my ignorance,but does Jason Collins play the 4 or the 5??
> 
> My claim was with him at the 4,you guys are one and done,or dam close....
> 
> Perhaps I should have made it clearer.Without an athletic talented big to play alongside Collins,you are one and done..or close


He was at the four last year. He was the starting center for the two NBA Finals teams.

But t doesn't matter, because we have an athletic and talented big man.


----------



## truth

Real said:


> He was at the four last year. He was the starting center for the two NBA Finals teams.
> 
> But t doesn't matter, because we have an athletic and talented big man.


Are you referring to Boone???


----------



## Real

truth said:


> Are you referring to Boone???


No.

This guy.


----------



## SeaNet

ly_yng said:


> Blah blah blah blah statistics blah blah blah blah Jason Collins blah blah blah blah bad player blah blah never going to win blah blah blah.
> 
> You do realize that Nenad Krstic, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson have never, ever, ever complained about our power forward situation? Kidd's got enough sway in the organization to get the coach fired, but he can't get a 7 footer with a 1 inch vertical averaging 2 ppg out of the starting lineup?
> 
> Obviously, Collins is doing something right.


That's not true. RJ slipped once and said something along the lines of 'we are forced to start a backup at PF.'


----------



## NetIncome

SeaNet said:


> That's not true. RJ slipped once and said something along the lines of 'we are forced to start a backup at PF.'


he never said that. it is a LIE...and very typical of your style of argument. Some made up reference that you think you might recall. Really, if you are going to be intellectually honest, you should find a link for some a reference or not use it. I am sure everyone is tired of it. I know I am.


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

If the NETS didn't need an upgrade at the 4, they wouldn't have gone after SAR. Kidd, Carter and RJ were behind that!


----------



## SeaNet

NetIncome said:


> he never said that. it is a LIE...and very typical of your style of argument. Some made up reference that you think you might recall. Really, if you are going to be intellectually honest, you should find a link for some a reference or not use it. I am sure everyone is tired of it. I know I am.


Why would anyone believe you, the PR king, on this? I read it. If you don't believe it, that's your prerogative.

_******************_


----------



## Krakista

You take out Jason Collins and we'll never have a chance to get past the Heat this season.

Not only is he good in defending Shaq but also Rasheed, J.O. and Yao Ming (except for just 1 game).

Of course, I'd like see him hitting those open midrange jumpers again. If he does, we can compare our committee of bigs to the committee of bigs of the late 80's-early 90's Detroit Pistons. The Pistons then had Laimbeer, Mahorn, Salley, Edwards, and Rodman. If Collins can start hitting jumpers then I think we could compare. Laimbeer versus Collins, Mahorn versus Cliffey, Edwards versus Nenad, Salley versus Mikki, and the then young Rodman (and not yet rebounding monster) against Boone.


----------



## NetIncome

SeaNet said:


> Why would anyone believe you, the PR king, on this? I read it. If you don't believe it, that's your prerogative.
> 
> _******************_


You should try to be more intellectually honest. You make outlandish claims without any backup. In other words, you are either casual with the truth or you lie. Simple. If you truly believed Jefferson made such a statement you should have a link to it. He didn't.

PR? I'm a fan. You are something else. I have no idea what. But it aint a fan.

And I am still waiting for a link. I have to assume you dont have one.


----------



## kdub

Real said:


> No.
> 
> This guy.


Damn!

Everytime someone brings up this video, I have to watch it like 10 times. Thanks though... memories :biggrin:


----------



## Guest

Real said:


> No.
> 
> This guy.


imagine watching that IN PERSON.

swear to god, it was like poetry in motion...


and NI and seanet, are you two seriously arguing? i started reading it thinkin you two were just ****in around wit eachother, now i'm not so sure...


----------



## NetIncome

peg182 said:


> imagine watching that IN PERSON.
> 
> swear to god, it was like poetry in motion...
> 
> 
> and NI and seanet, are you two seriously arguing? i started reading it thinkin you two were just ****in around wit eachother, now i'm not so sure...


I despise him.


----------



## HB

I just cant help but chuckle at the circumstances behind the starting of this thread. The first few pages are just comedic gold.


----------



## YankeeNETicS

peg182 said:


> and NI and seanet, are you two seriously arguing? i started reading it thinkin you two were just ****in around wit eachother, now i'm not so sure...


How long have you been in this board? You should know the answer by now. :biggrin:


----------



## HB

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*



Carter15Nets said:


> 20 Minutes
> 
> 0 Points
> 0 Rebounds
> 0 Assists
> 0 Blocks
> 6 Fouls!!!!!!!!
> 
> Gave Yao Ming Like 40 Points
> 
> 38% 3 Ppg 4 Rpg In 27 Mpg On The Year...
> 
> Thats 27 Mpg Folks, Any Other Player Would Give More Production In 27 Mpg.


:laugh: this is hysterical. I cant wait till the season starts and Carter15nets starts posting again. Move over sly.


----------



## Guest

YankeeNETicS said:


> How long have you been in this board? You should know the answer by now. :biggrin:


well, since i came back, i haven't seen any arguing between them.


----------



## NBASCOUT2005

*Re: I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins*

The final word on Twin is as follows:

Twin's a nice guy. He's a Stanford Alum.

He plays a smart game most of the time - 'cept against the elite PFs in crunchtime. They turn him into a statuesque Bozo.

If the rest of the team can compensate with help defense and offsetting big plays, it often won't matter.

Where it does matter is in the critical minutes of critical matchups in critical games against the elite PFs of the elite teams.

That's when the NETS are better off with someone else in there. 

He's a good positional defender against slower, heavier power players and has more trouble with the faster, quicker, more agile, muscular and explosive PFs in the game.

Twin can't jump to save his life. It's not his fault. He wasn't blessed with quick reaction time and powerful enough reflexes to move laterally and vertically. 

Like height, these are attributes you just can't teach. All the conditioning and weight loss in the world won't make a difference. 

The man upstairs didn't bless him with these things and you certainly can't fault Twin for that. He does the best he can with what he has and makes the best of it. 

Twin does a lot of the small things that make him popular with teammates. 

He wants everyone to support him for DPOY.

For his sake, I hope he makes it.

Go NETS.

Go Jason ...


----------



## NoWright4U

I'm sorry guys, but I have to bring this thread to life. 

Collins wasn't playing great defense in this game. I know he is not known for his offense, but he should have scored down low. I would be happy if he had 5 shot attempts. 

I'm upset that he couldn't limit Udonis Haslem's points. Haslem having 28 points is not acceptable.


----------



## Tin Man

NoWright4U said:


> I'm sorry guys, but I have to bring this thread to life.
> 
> Collins wasn't playing great defense in this game. I know he is not known for his offense, but he should have scored down low. I would be happy if he had 5 shot attempts.
> 
> I'm upset that he couldn't limit Udonis Haslem's points. Haslem having 28 points is not acceptable.


Do you actually watch the games or just follow them online?


----------



## HB

Haslem had 28 points. That must have been a very silent 28, I barely noticed.


----------



## fahnzy

Haslem seemed to get most of his points against Krstic. Collins was guarding Shaq...


----------



## dfunk15

well, im semi drunk and i missed almost entire second half, just saw highligths on tv in the bar, but im just pissed about the way heat own us. I just fking hate it, any other team would be ok but why it has to be them, Why cant it be hornets or some other team people dont give **** about. It just doesnt seem like we can get by them, ****, ruined half of my night

edit: damn, i even posted in a wrong thread, this post supposed to be in Nets-Heat game thread


----------



## big furb

HB said:


> Haslem had 28 points. That must have been a very silent 28, I barely noticed.


You didn't notice?!? I certainly did, he was hitting the glass making himself available for layups and dunks whenever our big guys tried and failed to give help D (collins and curly are good man 2 man defenders against certain opponents, but they're average at help defense)


----------



## HitmanNets

C. Wilcox F

22 PTS
9 REBS 
8-13 FG
1 FOUL

J. Collins F

1 PT
5 REBS 
4 FOULS


----------



## ghoti

HitmanNets said:


> C. Wilcox F
> 
> 22 PTS
> 9 REBS
> 8-13 FG
> 1 FOUL
> 
> J. Collins F
> 
> 1 PT
> 5 REBS
> 4 FOULS


Idiotic post of the year.

Collins played great.

Wilcox didn't get those boards against Collins.

He got them against Nachbar and Robinson, who cannot stop anyone from getting a rebound.


----------



## Lord-SMX

i love this thread


----------



## Real

Lord-SMX said:


> i love this thread


The third post is the greatest


----------



## HitmanNets

Gotta be kidding me Jason Collins played great? What game did you watch? Whats Great? 1 Pt 5 Rebs? PLEAAAAAASE

He can drop 0-0-0-0-0-0 and 6 fouls in 48 minutes and u would still defend him


----------



## Real

HitmanNets said:


> Gotta be kidding me Jason Collins played great? What game did you watch? Whats Great? 1 Pt 5 Rebs? PLEAAAAAASE
> 
> He can drop 0-0-0-0-0-0 and 6 fouls in 48 minutes and u would still defend him


You're not going to quit bashing him, because you don't watch him play. You look at the boxscore and think that stats mean absolutely everything about a player's performance...

Am I wrong?


----------



## HitmanNets

ya i dont understand the box score. i was there in person watching the flat footed stiff give up 500 offensive rebounds


----------



## L

I think Hitman is Hollinger in disguise, because using his logic, Eddy Curry>Kidd


----------



## HitmanNets

forget hollinger ima bigger legend than hollinger


----------



## jirohkanzaki

i'm not a fan of jason collins either...if only because he is overpaid...but 82games.com say that nets rebounding improves when twin is in the game...maybe because he is good at boxing out? i hope we get josh boone back real soon...


----------



## ghoti

HitmanNets said:


> ya i dont understand the box score. i was there in person watching the flat footed stiff give up 500 offensive rebounds


You are so wrong it's not even funny.


----------



## Jizzy

HitmanNets said:


> forget hollinger ima bigger legend than hollinger


<strike>You fail to realize that no one can stand you. You're a 15 year old kid with no life who trolls constantly. Go do your schoolwork. </strike> 


I wish we had better fans.


----------



## Tin Man

The last two games Collins has averaged 18 mpg and the Nets have given up 17.5 offensive rebounds per game. The previous three games Collins averaged 26 mpg and the Nets gave up 9.3 offensive rebounds per game.

You may now return to your baseless rant.


----------



## HB

Tin Man said:


> The last two games Collins has averaged 18 mpg and the Nets have given up 17.5 offensive rebounds per game. The previous three games Collins averaged 26 mpg and the Nets gave up 9.3 offensive rebounds per game.
> 
> You may now return to your baseless rant.


And how many rebounds did Collins average in those two instances you brought up


----------



## Tin Man

HB said:


> And how many rebounds did Collins average in those two instances you brought up


You just don't get it, basketball is one 5 on 5 game it's not five 1 on 1 games. The Nets are a better rebounding *TEAM *when Collins is on the floor.


----------



## HB

Tin Man said:


> You just don't get it, basketball is one 5 on 5 game it's not five 1 on 1 games. The Nets are a better rebounding *TEAM *when Collins is on the floor.


I have heard that same old tired story over and over again

Look Collins does his job no doubt, but its also obvious to anyone that watches him play how much of a flawed player he is. Maybe just maybe thats why his minutes went down


----------



## ghoti

HB said:


> Look Collins does his job no doubt, but its also obvious to anyone that watches him play how much of a flawed player he is. Maybe just maybe thats why his minutes went down


Shouldn't have gone down tonight.

Maybe when RJ comes back and the Nets can get a rebound.


----------



## Bushido

I was watching the highlights of the game thru nba.com, and when that guy dunked in Collins' face, I couldn't help but laugh


----------



## MARCUSWILLIAMSRULES

Would you people stop supporting him? DAMN. He's worthless. If we had a player who could just average 10 points and 8 rebounds at the PF who could RUN and actually JUMP and DUNK, we'd be soooo much better. I mean honestly give me a break. He's 7 foot and he cant even dunk. It's pathetic.


----------



## Netted

MARCUSWILLIAMSRULES said:


> Would you people stop supporting him? DAMN. He's worthless. If we had a player who could just average 10 points and 8 rebounds at the PF who could RUN and actually JUMP and DUNK, we'd be soooo much better. I mean honestly give me a break. He's 7 foot and he cant even dunk. It's pathetic.


Yeah, cause it's all about the dunk. :laugh:


----------



## ghoti

Until RJ gets back, Collins has to stay the hell out of foul trouble and play at least 30 minutes or the Nets will likely lose every game.

They needed almost a perfect effort against the Wizards to get to the point where they needed a miracle, and that's going to be tough to do every night.

The Bucks are built very similar to the Sonics, and Collins is going to be very important if the Nets want to avoid the same fate.


----------



## MARCUSWILLIAMSRULES

Netted said:


> Yeah, cause it's all about the dunk. :laugh:



He can't make a lay up either. Stop defending him. He's absolutley the worst starter in the NBA.


----------



## dfunk15

in the game *I* was watching I saw on numerous occasions Sonics players getting rebound ahead of Collins before he could even get off the ground, he might be good at boxing out but since there was no one to grab the rebounds (RJ) this time NEts needed him to get boards himself. Also he wasnt rotating on pick and rolls too well either. IMO, some saw it differently


----------



## ghoti

dfunk15 said:


> in the game *I* was watching I saw on numerous occasions Sonics players getting rebound ahead of Collins before he could even get off the ground, he might be good at boxing out but since there was no one to grab the rebounds (RJ) this time NEts needed him to get boards himself. Also he wasnt rotating on pick and rolls too well either. IMO, some saw it differently


He had 5 rebounds in 19 minutes. For him, that _is_ getting them himself.

He's not Chris Wilcox. He's not getting 15 rebounds. I wish the Nets had that player, but they don't. 

He was the only Net that could physically keep anyone off the boards. The rest of them got pushed around and dominated.


----------



## Netted

Remember there was also a lot of long rebounds too. Those probably accounted for about half the disparity.


----------



## dfunk15

ghoti said:


> He had 5 rebounds in 19 minutes. For him, that _is_ getting them himself.
> 
> He's not Chris Wilcox. He's not getting 15 rebounds. I wish the Nets had that player, but they don't.
> 
> He was the only Net that could physically keep anyone off the boards. The rest of them got pushed around and dominated.


2 of them were defensive and one was easy when everyone was boxed out, Im not in "Jason Collins is useless" camp, I know what he brings to the game but his lack of athleticism in this game was hard for me to watch,

BTW- I fully realize Robinson, Nachbar and Moore were even worse, like you mentioned they did get pushed around


----------



## ghoti

dfunk15 said:


> 2 of them were defensive and one was easy when everyone was boxed out, Im not in "Jason Collins is useless" camp, I know what he brings to the game but his lack of athleticism in this game was hard for me to watch,
> 
> BTW- I fully realize Robinson, Nachbar and Moore were even worse, like you mentioned they did get pushed around


That's all I'm saying.

There's people on here blaming Collins for that stuff, when he was actually the best option.

Moore did OK, though. He's a steady pro. He's a million times more effective than Cliff Robinson, anyway.


----------



## Netted

ghoti said:


> That's all I'm saying.
> 
> There's people on here blaming Collins for that stuff, when he was actually the best option.
> 
> Moore did OK, though. He's a steady pro. He's a million times more effective than Cliff Robinson, anyway.


Yeah, I was afraid that 40 would creep up and smack Cliff in the face and it looks like it may have.

He'll have his useful moments during the season, but I wish Boone was available now.


----------



## HitmanNets

OMG more Jason Collins defense just stop...hes a huge liability and is holding us back from winning title s and you still defending him. Please "its all about the dunk" man the guy cant dunk and he 7 feet which is pathetic is what the guy is saying dont change the topic. hes garbage and utter garbage. worst nba starter to start as many games he did in his career in NBA HISTORY!


----------



## Real

HitmanNets said:


> OMG more Jason Collins defense just stop...hes a huge liability and is holding us back from winning title s and you still defending him. Please "its all about the dunk" man the guy cant dunk and he 7 feet which is pathetic is what the guy is saying dont change the topic. hes garbage and utter garbage. worst nba starter to start as many games he did in his career in NBA HISTORY!


You say that people should stop defending Jason Collins, but maybe you should stop going postal and overexaggerating your criticism.


----------



## ghoti

HitmanNets said:


> OMG more Jason Collins defense just stop...hes a huge liability and is holding us back from winning title s and you still defending him. Please "its all about the dunk" man the guy cant dunk and he 7 feet which is pathetic is what the guy is saying dont change the topic. hes garbage and utter garbage. worst nba starter to start as many games he did in his career in NBA HISTORY!


I hope this ranting is making you feel better.


----------



## HitmanNets

well yea its not his fault really its more managements fault cant get even a mediocre PF on this team in 3 years. collins is a nice backup no question but by no means is the man an NBA Starter


----------



## Real

HitmanNets said:


> well yea its not his fault really its more managements fault cant get even a mediocre PF on this team in 3 years. collins is a nice backup no question but by no means is the man an NBA Starter


Management's fault...LOL.

I'd like to see how Rob Babcock or Isiah Thomas would do with this team. Probably run it deep into the ground, and be fired.

But it doesn't matter as long as we get a "mediocre" PF, LOL.


----------



## HitmanNets

see there u go again putting words into my mouth...this management is great one of the best and ubringing up knicks. all im saying is its managements fault for not filling a void which has been a void for 3 years now is all im saying. not asking for a superstar pf either, medicority would even be good. stop with that homer bullcrap man. one guy says he cant dunk and 7 feet and another guy goes yea dunking is whats it all about is a scarcastic way. [STRIKE]buncha homers man[/STRIKE] .


----------



## Real

HitmanNets said:


> see there u go again putting words into my mouth...this management is great one of the best and ubringing up knicks. all im saying is its managements fault for not filling a void which has been a void for 3 years now is all im saying. not asking for a superstar pf either, medicority would even be good. stop with that homer bullcrap man. one guy says he cant dunk and 7 feet and another guy goes yea dunking is whats it all about is a scarcastic way. [STRIKE]buncha homers man[/STRIKE] .


The biggest void was not the PF position, but the bench. The Nets have a better chance with Jason Collins in the lineup and a good bench than they do with a "mediocre" PF and last year's bench.

Furthermore: Please describe to me the exact definition of a "mediocre" player and provide some examples to back up your statement.


----------



## NetFan48

How much is collins getting paid now ????? And who could we have picked up in his place for that salary ???? And why did we not ???? C'mon ,everyone leave collins alone. He is playing as hard as he can now........... (whisper) He probably thinks that this is his Contract Year. SSShhhhh..... Also I'd like to see a transcript of his college grades . He probably sat next to the Smart Kid.......GO NETS !!!


----------



## Tin Man

Tin Man said:


> The last two games Collins has averaged 18 mpg and the Nets have given up 17.5 offensive rebounds per game. The previous three games Collins averaged 26 mpg and the Nets gave up 9.3 offensive rebounds per game.
> 
> You may now return to your baseless rant.


Collins plays 31 minutes tonight and the Nets give up 7 offensive rebounds. Is it sinking in yet?


----------



## Krakista

NetFan48 said:


> Also I'd like to see a transcript of his college grades .


And at Stanford at that.


----------



## HB

Tin Man said:


> Collins plays 31 minutes tonight and the Nets give up 7 offensive rebounds. Is it sinking in yet?


Charlie Villaneuva out with sprainked left wrist

Bucks team played last night. What other solid rebounders did they have on the floor tonight?

Now dont get me wrong, Collins played really good tonight but theres more to those 7 offensive rebounds than Collins.


----------



## Krakista

HB said:


> Charlie Villaneuva out with sprainked left wrist


On the other hand, we didn't have RJ.


----------



## lukewarmplay

bucks centers' totals today:
2-7 fg, 5 boards


----------



## furnace

HB said:


> Charlie Villaneuva out with sprainked left wrist
> 
> Bucks team played last night. What other solid rebounders did they have on the floor tonight?
> 
> Now dont get me wrong, Collins played really good tonight but theres more to those 7 offensive rebounds than Collins.



You can't have it both ways. You can't blame Collins for all the losses yet give him no credit for the wins. Yeah, the Bucks played last night. But the Nets played an overtime away game before the Sonics game, which is much tougher to recover from. More physical activity combined with less rest. What other solid rebounders? Bogut, Gadzuric, Skinner, Patterson, Ilyasova...all 6'9" and over besides Patterson.

If you hold Collins responsible for rebounding, he deserves both credit and blame.

I, for one, have stated time and again it's not about 1 person...it's about the team...and the bottom line is that Collins is a puzzle piece that fits this team...


----------



## SeaNet

lukewarmplay said:


> bucks centers' totals today:
> 2-7 fg, 5 boards


Collins played some truly spectacular D on Bogut last night. Bogut could not create space and simply could not go where he wanted when he had the ball. Collins had him locked up. The nets never had to apply a double team, and I don't think they even had to bring over a help defender at any point. And against a passer like Bogut that's a key to the game. Nets were even able to jump his passes late in the game, w/ the Bucks perimeter players not adjusting and Bogut having to throw cross court passes. And it all started w/ Collins' D.


----------



## furnace

SeaNet said:


> Collins played some truly spectacular D on Bogut last night. Bogut could not create space and simply could not go where he wanted when he had the ball. Collins had him locked up. The nets never had to apply a double team, and I don't think they even had to bring over a help defender at any point. And against a passer like Bogut that's a key to the game. Nets were even able to jump his passes late in the game, w/ the Bucks perimeter players not adjusting and Bogut having to throw cross court passes. And it all started w/ Collins' D.



Thankyou sir. However, to HB and his cronies, this won't matter because it had not affect on the game, because it doesn't show up in the box score.


----------



## Dumpy

furnace said:


> Thankyou sir. However, to HB and his cronies, this won't matter because it had not affect on the game, because it doesn't show up in the box score.


Some people have proposed designing a "defensive box score" and fans all over the country would collect data for a huge database. You would measure things like field goal percentage against particular defenders, offensive rebounds against certain defenders, and defensive stops, which would in turn include forced turnovers and missed field goals by the opposition when defended by a particular player. Then of course you'd compute the defensive stop percentage based on successful scoring attempts. You'd also measure offensive fouls committed against certain defenders. 82games.com has mentioned that this is "in the works" for some time. This is actually something we could all do together as a big team for the Nets, but it would take a lot of work. For instance, so that no one erson would be doing too much work, and everyone could actually enjoy the game, each "coder" would be assigned one player on the Nets to record the data for. We'd have some redundancy in place to minimize errors. Then we could see the relative defensive value for each player. This would just be half the solution though--we'd still want to know how Collins compares to players on other teams, and we wouldn't have data for that. Hopefully, 82games will eventually do this.


----------



## NoWright4U

Collins:

13 minutes, 0 FG attempts, and 1 rebound. 

PRICELESS!


----------



## HB

furnace said:


> Thankyou sir. However, to HB and his cronies, this won't matter because it had not affect on the game, because it doesn't show up in the box score.


Classic, I never saw this post till now. I dont even know how to respond to this but laugh


----------



## NoWright4U

Is there anyway that Thorn can buy out Collin's contract? He is just horrible. Let's just save some money, and buy out his contract A.S.A.P.


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Seems like he has this whole Board agianst him Myself Inculded.

Got to get rid of him, he needs to be put a Tax sheet as Re-Ducdable he is useless.

I will say it now and Eat My words

Josh the starting PF next Year Boone


----------



## JAMES.SLIMM

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> Seems like he has this whole Board agianst him Myself Inculded.
> 
> Got to get rid of him, he needs to be put a Tax sheet as Re-Ducdable he is useless.
> 
> I will say it now and Eat My words
> 
> Josh the starting PF next Year Boone



LoL Funny post and it's actually Deductable


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

I knew I did not spell it right, But hey it's the truth


----------



## XRay34

35 Minutes
0 Points
7 Rebounds
1 Block
5 FOULS

Causing Vince Carter vicious fadeaway 3 from 28 foot off the glass to be waived off due to offensive foul. Channing Frye 7 for 13 for 15 Points heck he even let Jerome James score 4 points early, the guy barely scores. My god what a joke of a player, DFA him right now buy him out

for the season

55 Games (54 Starts) 23.5 Minutes Per Game
2.4 Points Per Game on 34% Field Goal Shooting (What 7 footer shoots 34% from FG)
An impressive 4 Rebounds per game in 24 minutes for a 7 footer
0.4 Blocks Per Game, 47% FT shooter
3.5 Fouls


----------



## mjm1

Carter15Nets said:


> 35 Minutes
> 0 Points
> 7 Rebounds
> 1 Block
> 5 FOULS
> 
> Causing Vince Carter vicious fadeaway 3 from 28 foot off the glass to be waived off due to offensive foul. Channing Frye 7 for 13 for 15 Points heck he even let Jerome James score 4 points early, the guy barely scores. My god what a joke of a player, DFA him right now buy him out
> 
> for the season
> 
> 55 Games (54 Starts) 23.5 Minutes Per Game
> 2.4 Points Per Game on 34% Field Goal Shooting (What 7 footer shoots 34% from FG)
> An impressive 4 Rebounds per game in 24 minutes for a 7 footer
> 0.4 Blocks Per Game, 47% FT shooter
> 3.5 Fouls


without Collins screen, I very much doubt carter would have been able to get that three point shot off.


----------



## jerkstore

mjm1 said:


> without Collins screen, I very much doubt carter would have been able to get that three point shot off.


:biggrin:


----------



## XRay34

mjm1 said:


> without Collins screen, I very much doubt carter would have been able to get that three point shot off.



Is that all you have to say? Vince would have got it off, the pick was late. Why set illegal pick


----------



## HB

Collins played a good game today, don't know what you are talking about


----------



## XRay34

Worst full-time starter in NBA history


----------



## roro26

Meh, but I feel more comfortable when I see Mikki running out to set the pick or screen. Less chance of a moving pick.


----------



## XRay34

look i cant take 2 more years of collins so they better trade him (who wants him? no one)

so buy him out for 8 mill waste of $$$ whata stupid signing guys garbage worth 1.1 mill tops minimum nba salary


----------



## GMJigga

Interesting thought:

Would you rather have Eric Williams (summer league PF that caught the eye of a lot of posters) or Jason Collins (national basketball league PF/C that caught the ire of a lot of posters)

Personally? I'd take williams, although I would also trade Jason Collins for a cheese sandwich but the salaries don't match up.


----------



## NetFan48

I mean C'MON..... Once in a while an NBA player has a bad game.......................BUT NOT EVERY GAME....


----------



## XRay34

0 Points @ Half

Dominating


----------



## Phenom Z28

Carter15Nets said:


> 0 Points @ Half
> 
> Dominating


 The dude had a great half though. His defense was awesome, he caused like 3 turnovers. We all know his offensive game is about the worst in history, but the dude can flat out play great D.


----------



## Apostales Warning

He defended Pau well.


----------



## XRay34

Lets take a look at Jason Collins vs. the legendary future all of famer Walter Herrmann (WHO IN GODS NAME ARE YOU!??!?!)

Jason Collins

4 Points amazing performance one of his few games he shot over 50%
1 Rebounds wow what a player 7 feet tall and gets 1 rebound
0 assists dont worry he gets pass cause he never gets em anyway
0 blocks yawn nothing new once again

Walter Herrmann (I said Who ARE YOU!?!?!)

20 Points on 8 for 13 field goal
7 rebounds
2 assists

tim duncanesque performance for one walter herrmann

WHAT A JOKE JASON COLLINS IS AND DONT GIMME THAT "Jason played a great game he caused 2 turnovers" 

DFA HIM RIGHT NOW


----------



## jerkstore

Jason Collins has good manners.


----------



## GMJigga

He at least went to stanford, which means he's educated? That's all I've got.


----------



## jerkstore

I am almost sure that he's nice to animals.


----------



## kdub

Carter15Nets said:


> Lets take a look at Jason Collins vs. the legendary future all of famer Walter Herrmann (WHO IN GODS NAME ARE YOU!??!?!)
> 
> Jason Collins
> 
> 4 Points amazing performance one of his few games he shot over 50%
> 1 Rebounds wow what a player 7 feet tall and gets 1 rebound
> 0 assists dont worry he gets pass cause he never gets em anyway
> 0 blocks yawn nothing new once again
> 
> Walter Herrmann (I said Who ARE YOU!?!?!)
> 
> 20 Points on 8 for 13 field goal
> 7 rebounds
> 2 assists
> 
> tim duncanesque performance for one walter herrmann
> 
> WHAT A JOKE JASON COLLINS IS AND DONT GIMME THAT "Jason played a great game he caused 2 turnovers"
> 
> DFA HIM RIGHT NOW


LOL I admit, this made me laugh.


----------



## jerkstore

Fabio? I think he was offered for McGinnis.


----------



## elsaic15

yea...and nets passed and took robinson instead. real smart huh? hmm a athletic 4 who can shoot and has moves and hustles? nah lets take the guy who will never play for the same money


----------



## HB

elsaic15 said:


> yea...and nets passed and took robinson instead. real smart huh? hmm a athletic 4 who can shoot and has moves and hustles? nah lets take the guy who will never play for the same money


That one is truly baffling


----------



## Netted

Isn't Herrmann a SF? 6'-9" 225 lbs. Bobs had no one else to play the position. About the same size as Boki.


----------



## Lord-SMX

Carter15Nets said:


> Lets take a look at Jason Collins vs. the legendary future all of famer Walter Herrmann (WHO IN GODS NAME ARE YOU!??!?!)
> 
> Jason Collins
> 
> 4 Points amazing performance one of his few games he shot over 50%
> 1 Rebounds wow what a player 7 feet tall and gets 1 rebound
> 0 assists dont worry he gets pass cause he never gets em anyway
> 0 blocks yawn nothing new once again
> 
> Walter Herrmann (I said Who ARE YOU!?!?!)
> 
> 20 Points on 8 for 13 field goal
> 7 rebounds
> 2 assists
> 
> tim duncanesque performance for one walter herrmann
> 
> WHAT A JOKE JASON COLLINS IS AND DONT GIMME THAT "Jason played a great game he caused 2 turnovers"
> 
> DFA HIM RIGHT NOW


Isn't collins supposed to do that defense thing? everyone says that collins plays defense but everytime we go up against a teamm in a must win situation the opposing PF always drops a 20, 10 on us!


----------



## HB

Everytime I read this thread I just burst out laughing


----------



## NetFan48

None of this Cow-llins stuff makes me laugh. Thorn signed JKIDD and that was great but he also signed Cow-llins and that was REALLY STUPID !!!!!Now he is Even...He also signed VC but he let KMART get away.He picked Wright and that was Wrong and he had no choice but to take MWILL so we cannot give him credit for that one.... He chose Brandon Armstrong over Gilbert Arenas,etc... So let's say that he is not that smart after all and he is just an average GM...Oh, And He likes LFrank...So maybe alot of our problem is Thorn ?????? Collins Sucks and FRANK HAPPENS !!!And THORN HAPPENS !!!!


----------



## jerkstore

Collins is like Rod Thorn's Mulligan, He drafts Jordan, and signs Collins. 

Collins would be decent if it were not for the Nerve damge in his knees, and the re-occuring back problems, and the sloth-like...nevermind,


----------



## jerkstore

team high steals vs. Bobcats


----------



## kdub

jerkstore said:


> Collins is like Rod Thorn's Mulligan, He drafts Jordan, and signs Collins.
> 
> Collins would be decent if it were not for the Nerve damge in his knees, and the re-occuring back problems, and the sloth-like...nevermind,


LOL, this thread is full of funnies.


----------



## Jizzy

Netted said:


> Isn't Herrmann a SF? 6'-9" 225 lbs. Bobs had no one else to play the position. About the same size as Boki.



He killed K-Mart.


----------



## Jizzy

elsaic15 said:


> yea...and nets passed and took robinson instead. real smart huh? hmm a athletic 4 who can shoot and has moves and hustles? nah lets take the guy who will never play for the same money


Thorn's infatuation for swingmen is costing this team. Supposedly, he was "RJ insurance". Yeah, let's trade for another swingmen and leave Hassan Adams and Wright and Boki on the bench.


----------



## Krakista

New Jersey Nets NBA player pair tandem stats and data from 82games.com

Jason Collins lead the Nets in +/-


----------



## Nets Maven

About a month or two ago Frank told the press that Collins led the team in plus minus and asked them if they were surprised. Now,
he still leads in plus minus. Its a team game. Lay off Collins.
Now Cliffy is another matter.


----------



## NetIncome

Nets Maven said:


> About a month or two ago Frank told the press that Collins led the team in plus minus and asked them if they were surprised. Now,
> he still leads in plus minus. Its a team game. Lay off Collins.
> Now Cliffy is another matter.


Interesting who the worst combo is: Carter and Wright. Carter and Collins best combo, Carter and Wright worst. 

Cliffy has the lowest +/- by far among rotation players. 

The numbers are raw...but always a good subject for debate.


----------



## NetIncome

Jizzy said:


> He killed K-Mart.


Actually in the 2001 Goodwill Games, he played very very well against KMart.

(Well, after checking, he played okay against KMart. I watched the game and relied on memory)

http://goodwillgames.com/2001_Resul..._teamcompetition_finals_game_20_official.html


----------



## XRay34

Jason Collins The Legend:

33 Minutes 21 Seconds
0 Points
4 Rebounds (Kidd 16 Rebounds and he like 1 foot shorter, 4 FRIGGING REBOUNDS 7 FEET TALL! IN OVER 33 MINUTES!)
0 Assists
0 Steals
1 Block (OMG HE GOT A BLOCK!)
4 Fouls

Guy he guarded and played PF tonigth Antawn Jamison (Hayes played the 3) had 37 Points 11 Rebounds 4 Assists 4 Steals.


----------



## jarkid

that's not anything surprising.

He is Collins.


----------



## furnace

Carter15Nets said:


> Jason Collins The Legend:
> 
> 33 Minutes 21 Seconds
> 0 Points
> 4 Rebounds (Kidd 16 Rebounds and he like 1 foot shorter, 4 FRIGGING REBOUNDS 7 FEET TALL! IN OVER 33 MINUTES!)
> 0 Assists
> 0 Steals
> 1 Block (OMG HE GOT A BLOCK!)
> 4 Fouls
> 
> Guy he guarded and played PF tonigth Antawn Jamison (Hayes played the 3) had 37 Points 11 Rebounds 4 Assists 4 Steals.



Do you think Kidd and Carter could get 32 rebounds without Jason Collins?

I would say your basketball IQ is laughable, but you don't have any to speak of.


----------



## NetFan48

OOOoooohhhhhh....Don't talk about collins , He's a Star on this team....The reason that this game was close tonight is because we were playing 4 on 5 while collins was on the floor....Hey , I'll take KG ....He can do the little things that collins does and rebound and score points....In that case , I'll take MOORE or BOONE... collins is useless....Everyone is always talking about getting players into the weight room...Well I saw a closeup of collins shoulders and upper body tonight and I thought that we went to commercial and that was the freakin MICELIN MAN ... He is built like the freakin Sta-Puff Marshmallow guy...And he has no calf muscle definition either... For the money that he is getting paid one would think that he would or should try to get in better shape .....


----------



## XRay34

and of course the defense towards collins continues as people now say he is the reason kidd and carter got 16 rebounds

are u people kidding me? jason kidd career 6.6 rpg he the best rebounding pguard since magic johnson and prob top 3 all-time. 

whats next eddie house scores 30 pts on a pathetic jason collins night and ocllins is reason house scored 30?


----------



## NetFan48

furnace said:


> Do you think Kidd and Carter could get 32 rebounds without Jason Collins?
> 
> I would say your basketball IQ is laughable, but you don't have any to speak of.


I see your point now.... If we had a CENTER that could rebound than there wouldn't be that many boards left for JKIDD and VC....So that is good...Because collins cannot rebound there were alot of chances for our guards....Sorry , I misunderstood you at first....


----------



## elsaic15

yep...collins is the reason for vc and kidd doing well, because he sucks so very much and gets torched every night despite his "good defense". yea i get it now. when will people stop trying to invent excuses and see that he is a liability on offense, and isnt even that good at defense, and what little intangables he does bring is easily overshadowed by his countless glaring flaws


----------



## jarkid

you'll love Collins when we play against Heat. LOL.

other than that, forget his minutes.


----------



## Lord-SMX

NetFan48 said:


> OOOoooohhhhhh....Don't talk about collins , He's a Star on this team....The reason that this game was close tonight is because we were playing 4 on 5 while collins was on the floor....Hey , I'll take KG ....He can do the little things that collins does and rebound and score points....In that case , I'll take MOORE or BOONE... collins is useless....Everyone is always talking about getting players into the weight room...Well I saw a closeup of collins shoulders and upper body tonight and I thought that we went to commercial and that was the freakin MICELIN MAN ... He is built like the freakin Sta-Puff Marshmallow guy...And he has no calf muscle definition either... For the money that he is getting paid one would think that he would or should try to get in better shape .....


i totally agree w/ you man give boone enough time and he'll learn how to box out and set screens for Kidd, Carter, RJ! Just wait till krstic comes back next season. Collins won't have a job as a starting pf in this league ever again, because boone will be stronger, faster and better overall then collins ever was! And combine boone, krstic and moore and you got a scoring mach!


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Thought i up this.

In 23 Mins Cowllins is 0-1, 0 Rebounds, 1 To, and 5 Fouls. 

Just great anit it that he starts?


----------



## XRay34

2.2 PPG 4 RPG 37% FG 47% FT in 23 MPG +

One of the greatest player in NBA history


----------



## jerkstore

Collins is a genius and I really mean that. I just wish he could score/rebound/Jump.


----------



## da1nonly

Collins may be the first starting center with more fouls than points in a season.


----------



## XRay34

Can someone defend this please?

20 Minutes
0 for 2 FG (Both embarrassing flat footed rejections)
1 Rebound (7 feet tall and gets 1 rebound in 20 minutes?)
0 blocks
0 assists
0 points
0 steals
2 fouls

gave up 18/7 to frye


----------



## XRay34

Most stunning #'ers

Last 9 GAMES

1 Point 28 Fouls


----------



## elsaic15

he is the biggest joke in the league. its hilarious because u know when he goes up hes getting blocked, its just how bad. u could strap 50 lb weights to my ankles and id still jump higher than collins


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

What a Joke he is.

Look at the difrence 

Boone

17 Mins, 5 Points, 5 boards

Collins 19 Mins 0 Points, 1 Board


----------



## nets1

didn't you lose a bet now that the nets are guaranteed a 7th spot in the playoffs?


----------



## ghoti

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> What a Joke he is.
> 
> Look at the difrence
> 
> Boone
> 
> 17 Mins, 5 Points, 5 boards
> 
> Collins 19 Mins 0 Points, 1 Board


You continue to denigrate him, even though you agree he is a better post defender than Boone and should play over Boone against good centers and PF in the 4th quarter of games the Nets need to win.

So make up your mind, is he a "joke", or is he the Nets' best defensive player in the post?


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

nets1 said:


> didn't you lose a bet now that the nets are guaranteed a 7th spot in the playoffs?



Yeah, I guess I did.


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

ghoti said:


> You continue to denigrate him, even though you agree he is a better post defender than Boone and should play over Boone against good centers and PF in the 4th quarter of games the Nets need to win.
> 
> So make up your mind, is he a "joke", or is he the Nets' best defensive player in the post?



He is a joke on O, and a soild D Player however that in my book as you have said does not mean he should start or even get 6 million a year.

Did't you say the other night that Collins should be used off the bench, and that Boone should start and Boki sometimes as well?


----------



## ghoti

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> He is a joke on O, and a soild D Player however that in my book as you have said does not mean he should start or even get 6 million a year.
> 
> Did't you say the other night that Collins should be used off the bench, and that Boone should start and Boki sometimes as well?


Yes.

But you called Collins a joke, and I don't see how a player who has to be on the court at the end of the game to give your team their best chance to win can be a "joke".


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

ghoti said:


> Yes.
> 
> But you called Collins a joke, and I don't see how a player who has to be on the court at the end of the game to give your team their best chance to win can be a "joke".



He does not have to be out there, if the game is rather cose, by a few points on O we now have 4 players insted of 5.

You say he needs to be out there and that we need him, yet again did you not say the other night that if given the chance you would get rid of him?

He gave up as a poster said 18/7 to Frye, Collins is not the best player by a mile, he is slow his O sucks and he is good VS a few big men.


----------



## ghoti

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> He does not have to be out there, if the game is rather cose, by a few points on O we now have 4 players insted of 5.
> 
> You say he needs to be out there and that we need him, yet again did you not say the other night that if given the chance you would get rid of him?
> 
> He gave up as a poster said 18/7 to Frye, Collins is not the best player by a mile, he is slow his O sucks and he is good VS a few big men.


Yes, I want a better player. The Nets do not have one, so he has to be out there.

So now you are saying the Nets have a better chance to win without him out there guarding Curry, JON, Yao, etc.?

And from this post I can tell you either didn't watch the Knicks game, or have no idea how interpret what you saw when you did.


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

ghoti said:


> Yes, I want a better player. The Nets do not have one, so he has to be out there.
> 
> So now you are saying the Nets have a better chance to win without him out there guarding Curry, JON, Yao, etc.?
> 
> And from this post I can tell you either didn't watch the Knicks game, or have no idea how interpret what you saw when you did.



He does not need to be out, Curry was out most of the game, he is best vs Curry right? Frye was pretty good vs him, I recall Mav conmenting about Boone's good D vs Frye.

The nets would be better off right with starting Boone over Cowllins.

Please save the bull ****, Cowllins sucks it is a fact.


----------



## NetFan48

I choose JOKE !!!!! (95 % Joke - 5 % player)


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

NetFan48 said:


> I choose JOKE !!!!! (95 % Joke - 5 % player)



5% kind of high dont you think?:lol:


----------



## XRay34

start josh boone at least he can jump and shoot over 36% from the floor.

also can rebound better.


2.1 PPG 4.0 RPG 36% in 23 MPG

in 23 MPG he gives us absolutely no production. and his defense is mediocre at best. just sign a pf please or trade for one i cant have jason collins starting 1 more season. its ok to play him off the bench for about 15 mpg but thats it (15 mpg MAX)


----------



## ghoti

Carter15Nets said:


> start josh boone at least he can jump and shoot over 36% from the floor.
> 
> also can rebound better.
> 
> 
> 2.1 PPG 4.0 RPG 36% in 23 MPG
> 
> in 23 MPG he gives us absolutely no production. and *his defense is mediocre at best*. just sign a pf please or trade for one i cant have jason collins starting 1 more season. its ok to play him off the bench for about 15 mpg but thats it (15 mpg MAX)


Even I don't believe it, but I agree with everything in this post except for the bolded part (but I would hope that the new PF could at least play decent post defense).

Please for the love of God get a real starting PF for this team, Rod Thorn. How long must we suffer?

Now can we stop whining? There's nothing that anyone can do about it now, so let's hope Collins drives the opposing center crazy and the Nets win some playoff series!


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## jerkstore

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> 5% kind of high dont you think?:lol:


Remember when You said that the Nets wouldn't make the playoffs, and you were so sure that they wouldn't that you agreed to bet, on adding this to your sig "I am sorry I doubted the Nets, the Frontcourt, and our Coach".

If I lost, I would be posting something nice about Boone. 

You Lost pal, "I am sorry I doubted the Nets, the Frontcourt, and our Coach" goes on your sig for the rest of the season, and the playoffs.

As much as you hate Jason Collins, he's good enough that you gotta show some respect.


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## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Carter15Nets said:


> start josh boone at least he can jump and shoot over 36% from the floor.
> 
> also can rebound better.
> 
> 
> 2.1 PPG 4.0 RPG 36% in 23 MPG
> 
> in 23 MPG he gives us absolutely no production. and his defense is mediocre at best. just sign a pf please or trade for one i cant have jason collins starting 1 more season. its ok to play him off the bench for about 15 mpg but thats it (15 mpg MAX)



Defently man, if the nets want to go anywhere in the Playoffs or next season that is what would be done.


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## DownUnderWonder

he makes me look like the second coming of Carl Lewis by comparison...


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## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

DownUnderWonder said:


> he makes me look like the second coming of Carl Lewis by comparison...



Maybe you are?:biggrin:


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## XRay34

Jason Collins Making Pj Brown Look Like Jazz' Karl Malone Out There


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## XRay34

Rj Shoot Urself


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## DownUnderWonder

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> Maybe you are?:biggrin:



I havent ran a 13 second hundred since high school let alone a 10 sec...

I'm so unfit I make Aaron Grey look like Dennis Rodman...

:yay:


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## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

DownUnderWonder said:


> I havent ran a 13 second hundred since high school let alone a 10 sec...
> 
> I'm so unfit I make Aaron Grey look like Dennis Rodman...
> 
> :yay:



LOL at that.

Dont worry at 6'4 245 you could probbly out do me.


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## XRay34

ill give credit to jason collins today good game


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## NoWright4U

Kudos To Collins!!!!!!!!!!


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## GMJigga

Respectively, Collins was an offensive juggernaut.


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## cpawfan




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## jerkstore

2-2 from the field, and 2-2 ft's good for 6 points 6 rebounds !

and he actually looked pretty good doing it.

His defense on Bosh was again very good, how many charges did he take?


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## jarkid

Good job, Collins.

Jason "Playoffs" Collins


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## GMJigga

I hate collins, but today he showed us that we're not yet ready to move on without his post defense.


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## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

GMJigga said:


> I hate collins, but today he showed us that we're not yet ready to move on without his post defense.



Defently, I think we need Collins next season. We need him off the bench for D Matchup's, unless he keeps incrasing his work load by 600%


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## elsaic15

maybe collins has been saving it for the playoffs lol. but yea ive been pleasantly surprised by his play


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## Aurelino

shooting 100% this series. Also made his FTs yesterday.


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## Fray

Collins has played great in this series. He's played defense, grabbed some offesnive boards, hasn't turned the ball over, and has yet to miss a shot.


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## HB

I was going to give him the POTG if the Nets had won last night.


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## SeaNet

Collins had probably his best game all season last night. He even made two layups!!!


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## Krakista

It doesn't show on the stat sheet but its another monster defensive game from Jason Collins.


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## ghoti

I have been saying, and it seems to be the opinion of everyone including Nets management that Collins has slipped to the point to where he is extremely overpaid.

If he plays like this in every playoff series, that will stop being true.


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## thenetsfan

ghoti said:


> I have been saying, and it seems to be the opinion of everyone including Nets management that Collins has slipped to the point to where he is extremely overpaid.
> 
> If he plays like this in every playoff series, that will stop being true.


true hes the only one of his kind Collins does'nt deserve to be a starter but is a special type of player, he alos stop to give autographs almost all the time.


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## jarkid

If Collins has played more like this in the season games, I think no more people would criticize him.


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## mynetsforlife

jason collins has big lips...

i say he should normally come off the bench, or just come in and out with the other teams star post player


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## GMJigga

mynetsforlife said:


> i say he should normally come off the bench, or just come in and out with the other teams star post player



I agree with this. We should use him as a specialist, not a starter


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## Krakista

Except when he needs to take on someone who starts.


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## GMJigga

Krakista said:


> Except when he needs to take on someone who starts.



Right, as in he starts against the Raptors and Heat, but not against the warriors, bulls, or even the mavs (since so much of dirk's game is the midrange jumper and not banging in the post)


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## XRay34

What Jason Collins Do Tonight


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## ToddMacCulloch11

Carter15Nets said:


> What Jason Collins Do Tonight


he played a solid game.


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## XRay34

defend that kidd to collins pass


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## GMJigga

Carter15Nets said:


> defend that kidd to collins pass



I'll agree with the TNT commentators and say thats more of a knock on Kidd than Collins. Its not like Kidd is unaware of Collin's low-post (dis)abilities


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## XRay34

ur a professional nba player catch the ball

same with antoine wright or wrong


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## KingofNewark

Kidd has played with Collins for SIX YEARS he should know better, Twin is a NON FACTOR on offense if he's wide open consider another option.


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## GMJigga

KingofNewark said:


> Kidd has played with Collins for SIX YEARS he should know better, Twin is a NON FACTOR on offense if he's wide open consider another option.




haha, thank you


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## furnace

Carter15Nets said:


> ur a professional nba player catch the ball
> 
> same with antoine wright or wrong



Mikki Moore had about 8 of those dropped passes at the April 16th game at Madison Square Garden vs the Knicks. Just ask Petey or NetIncome.

I don't see you criticizing Moore. And he IS an offensive player who SHOULD expect the ball under the basket.


All you ever propose are double standards.


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## XRay34

someone please defend what we just saw


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## Vuchato

I'm sure someone has made this joke before, but I just think of it everytime I see this thread, and I won't be able to rest until I say it. 



> I Dare You To Defend Jason Collins


That won't be tough, it's not like he can score anyway.

haha.


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## fruitcake

Vµ©#Å†° said:


> I'm sure someone has made this joke before, but I just think of it everytime I see this thread, and I won't be able to rest until I say it.
> 
> 
> 
> That won't be tough, it's not like he can score anyway.
> 
> haha.


LOL wanted to say something like that too. think of it every single time i see this thread bumped up


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## XRay34

Jason Collins

30 Minutes
1-3 Fg (33.3%)
2 Points
1 Rebound (guys 7 Feet Tall And Grabs 1 Rebound In 30 Minutes)
5 Fouls
0 Steals
0 Assists
0 Blocks
Gave Up 505045840954059340 Offensive Rebounds

Defend This Someone


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## MarionBarberThe4th

Hes not quick enough to hit the boards with this team. But he is keeping Z from getting pos.


-I just wish someone would realize Goodens only move is that turn around fadeawy on the left block


----------



## XRay34

2 fouls in 2 minutes nice

What a bum


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## XRay34

0 points
1 rebound
0 blocks
0 assists
4 fouls


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Brillant.

Jason Collins is a Bum, however he is Lawrence's BoyFriend so why are we shocked?


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## XRay34

Final stat line

22 Minutes
0 Points
2 Rebounds (In 22 min, thats 4 RPG per 48 minutes)
0 Assists
0 Blocks
0 Steals
4 Fouls


Guys a joke its like 5 on 4 out there, magine we had low post player who would open floor for VC and RJ and Kidd


6 years of watching this stiff is enough. If he starts one game next year I will flip. He is worth 12-15 minutes per game off the bench thats about it. For defense


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## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

^ right on. Collins should not even have a job with any NBA Team as a starter, you see Lawrence is in love with him, so that should answer the questions.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11




----------



## XRay34

will tonight be the final time we see jason collins in starting lineup?


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## jerkstore

Carter15Nets said:


> will tonight be the final time we see jason collins in starting lineup?


I know you're rooting for a loss, but as a Nets fan, I gotta say no.


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## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Carter15Nets said:


> will tonight be the final time we see jason collins in starting lineup?




The answer is and Must be Yes.

Wait till next year when Josh overtakes him.


----------



## Petey

Why are people correlating that Collins starts due to Frank?

It's amazing how people forget that Scott started Collins over Mutombo.

-Petey


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Petey said:


> Why are people correlating that Collins starts due to Frank?
> 
> It's amazing how people forget that Scott started Collins over Mutombo.
> 
> -Petey



Well maybe the cow was useable then. He anit now.


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## XRay34

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> The answer is and Must be Yes.
> 
> Wait till next year when Josh overtakes him.



i think boone might be bench material for another year also

we need to make a trade or sign

3 years now w/o PF


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## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Carter15Nets said:


> i think boone might be bench material for another year also
> 
> we need to make a trade or sign
> 
> 3 years now w/o PF



Trust me, I want Josh to be traded, he is not and will not be used right here in NJ.


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## Krakista

Josh Boone really sucked tonight.


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Yup, so much worse than Cow.

Seriously I want to see Josh do well, it anit going to be here.


----------



## XRay34

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> Yup, so much worse than Cow.
> 
> Seriously I want to see Josh do well, it anit going to be here.



well if he could hit free throws he could be solid whenever he goes up and defender fouls him its like a turnover he good around hoop though unlike collins a joke of a player

and what u mean not being used right? if u cant succeed with jason kidd you wont succeed anywhere (cept phoenix)


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Carter15Nets said:


> well if he could hit free throws he could be solid whenever he goes up and defender fouls him its like a turnover he good around hoop though unlike collins a joke of a player
> 
> and what u mean not being used right? if u cant succeed with jason kidd you wont succeed anywhere (cept phoenix)



He is not used by Frank, seriously And i mean this he needs to be elsewhere, he does.

He sees **** for playing time, even when he has good games.

Please please trade him to a team that needs him.


----------



## jerkstore

#1_Josh_Boone_Fan said:


> Yup, so much worse than Cow.
> 
> Seriously I want to see Josh do well, it *anit* going to be here.


Shrewd statement, as it is qualified by slipping in the little known acronym for Association Nationale des Intervenants en Toxicomanie. It's common sense that a French government agency will be studying the effects of pollution in New Jersey.
Very shrewd.


----------



## XRay34

28 Minutes

2 Points
2 Rebounds (7 Footer Gets 2 Rebounds In 28 Minutes)
0 Blocks (some Defense)
0 Steals (some Defense)
3 Fouls (wow He Didn't Get 5!)

This Better Be The Last Time We See Jason Collins Play Over 15 Minutes A Game In His Nets Career. If He Is Brought Back As A Starter Next Year I Will Boycott

5 Years Of This Crap Is Enough


----------



## #1_Josh_Boone_Fan

Carter15Nets said:


> 28 Minutes
> 
> 2 Points
> 2 Rebounds (7 Footer Gets 2 Rebounds In 28 Minutes)
> 0 Blocks (some Defense)
> 0 Steals (some Defense)
> 3 Fouls (wow He Didn't Get 5!)
> 
> This Better Be The Last Time We See Jason Collins Play Over 15 Minutes A Game In His Nets Career. If He Is Brought Back As A Starter Next Year I Will Boycott
> 
> 5 Years Of This Crap Is Enough



Get ready to boycot, Lawrence loves His Boy Cow.


----------



## ghoti

Lord-SMX said:


> dude i'm better then collins offensively





Real said:


> Did you average 15ppg on over 60 percent shooting while at Stanford??!


Haha. Ownage!


----------



## jarkid

Collins averaged 15 ppg and 60% in the college?

I don't believe it.


----------



## ghoti

jarkid said:


> Collins averaged 15 ppg and 60% in the college?
> 
> I don't believe it.


Season College | G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS| FG% 3P% FT%| MP TRB AST PTS|
+------------------+---+----+----+----+---+---+----+----+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+

2000-01 stanford | 34 895 168 274 12 26 145 185 265 51 28 43 53 79 493| 61 46 78| 26 7.8 1.5 14.5|


----------



## Dumpy

That FT% is probably the clearest evidence that Collins is suffering from some serious, chronic injury.


----------



## Kid Chocolate

Good ol' sausage lips


----------



## Nets Maven

The primary center on two trips to the NBA finals his first 2 years has
played postseason ball every year since. Plus minus team leader despite his team having to play " 4 on 5 " when he's on the floor ( and some of these " 4 on 5 " bball ignoramuses write for major tabloids ). 
If you actually watch the game including other than the guy with the ball,
you know he is invaluable in the Nets schemes.


----------

