# Magic plan



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Current roster:
3 Keith Bogans F-G 6-5 215 
55 Andrew DeClercq C 6-10 255 
13 Derrick Dial G 6-4 184 
22 Reece Gaines G 6-6 205 
8 Pat Garrity F 6-9 238 
0 Drew Gooden F 6-10 242 
33 Grant Hill F 6-8 225 
5 Juwan Howard F 6-9 230 
34 Steven Hunter C-F 7-0 240 
31 Britton Johnsen F 6-10 210 
10 Tyronn Lue G 6-0 178 
1 Tracy McGrady - C G 6-8 210 
27 Zaza Pachulia F-C 6-11 240 
45 Sean Rooks C 6-10 260 
2 DeShawn Stevenson 

Rooks, Pachulia, Stevenson, Hunter and Dial could all leave. I would hope they keep Pachulia and Stevenson, Stevenson does not really fit but it would be interesting to have him and maybe move Tracy to the SF spot. 

I believe Howard is not a great player, he is out of position and if he take Emeka we will have a problem at center. Maybe Emeka can play center but I am not sure about that. Gooden also gets less playing time because of Howard.

I think they need to address their PG situation, Lue is not the guy for the job I believe. They need someone that can penetrate and run a team. Their shooters are also pretty weak with only Garrity pretty much.


Carlos Arroyo
Ruben Boumtje Boumtje
Joel Przybilla
Mehmet Okur
Brevin Knight
Toni Kukoc
Robert Traylor 
Troy Hudson 
Penny Hardaway

I am not sure if they have a lot of money to spend, so I don't know if they can go after really big fish. Arroyo would be a solid pick for PG, and ideally they would get Hudson but why would he leave a possible championship team? I also like Knight at PG, a player than can actually run a team very well. I really hope Gaines improves but who knows if he will. They also need a center, could go the cheap route with Boumtje but he is not proven, Przybilla is another solid player, and possibly teamed with Emeka that could be a solid defensive line. But really they need a offnesive player to go with Emeka and that player is Mehmet Okur. Robert Traylor is another option, he has a lot of potential and Kukoc would be a great player to get because of his shooting ability. And believe it or not, I would love to get Penny back on this team. Him and Tracy could make one heck of a backcourt, and he can still play and it would bring excitement back to the city.

PG Hardaway/Lue/Gaines
SG McGrady/Stevenson/Bogans
SF Kukoc/Gooden/Bogans/
PF Okafor/Howard/Gooden
C Okur/Harrison/DeClercq


I do not know how much money they have, but if they can bring in another PG, ideally Penny but maybe Knight or Arroyo. And it would be wonderful if we got Harrison in the 2nd round of the draft. But ideally Penny, Okur and Kukoc would make this team pretty good. Keeping DeShawn would be great as well. 

Far fetched? Yes but I believe they need Emeka, they need Okur and they need Kukoc. Penny would just seal the deal but who knows if he would ever want to come back.


I also feel we need a different coach, I suggest Bill Musselman.



Realistically though, they could never get that roster most likely, unless they really want to spend.


PG Arroyo/Lue/Gaines
SG McGrady/Stevenson/Bogans
SF Gooden/Bogans/Steve Smith
PF Okafor/Howard/Gooden
C Traylor/Harrison/DeClercq

Still not as good, but they must get some big men, and Traylor would be cheap. But Dwight Howard is a interesting player, but Tracy wants to win now, and the first lineup I had would do that.


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## Ownerofpueblo (Aug 17, 2003)

Indiana trades: SF Jonathan Bender (7.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.9 minutes)
PF Al Harrington	(13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
C Scot Pollard	(1.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
PG Fred Jones	(4.9 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 18.6 minutes)
Indiana receives: SG Tracy McGrady	(28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 67 games)
C Andrew DeClercq	(3.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 71 games)
SG Reece Gaines	(1.8 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 38 games) 

Draft Okafor/Howard

Would it be so bad?

PG -Fred
SG - Bender
SF -Harrington
PF -Howard/Okafor
C- whoever


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Why wouldn't you start O'Neal?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Orlando will only have the 5 million exception and their veteran's exception to sign players. So there really isnt much chance of them signing Okur, Kukoc, and Penny. And Okur himself will probably command more than the midlevel as he is going to have a lot of suitors.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ownerofpueblo</b>!
> Indiana trades: SF Jonathan Bender (7.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.9 minutes)
> PF Al Harrington	(13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
> C Scot Pollard	(1.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
> ...


Fred Jones is definitely not a point guard for starters. He is a very undersized shooting guard.

And Bender has done nothing but underachieve so far in his career and I dont think he'll ever be able to play SG full-time.

So really the only real value Orlando gets back is Harrington. Harrington is a pretty good player and Orlando would love to have him, but not at the expense of Tmac.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Imagine if Penny came back to Orlando as a PG...that would be so sweet..

PG: Penny
SG: Tmac
SF: Hill/Garrity
PF: Emeka Okafor
Center: ???? Sign or trade for one


That woud be the definition of Magic.. especially if Hardaway is healthy...and Hill of course..

3 allstar or past allstar players + 1 future Allstar...and then a center..wow


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Sad thing is, if we do not have much cap room we will have to deal with two mistakes in Tyronn Lue and Juan Howard.

And Hill, he is a no go, no way he will come back from injury. Maybe if he did we would have hope but I doubt he will.

We really need a post scorer and Emeka is not that so we will have to deal with what Howard gives us. To bad Emeka, Gooden and Howard all play the same postion. Would be great if Emeka could play center but I doubt he can. Would be ideal if Gooden could play SF but he does not have the ball skills. 

Maybe they could get Ukic in the 2nd round or a center like I said before in Harrison.

I really think we need to sign Stevenson though, move Tracy to the SF, and it gives us another solid player and a good guard with upside.

Lineup

PG Lue
SG Stevenson
SF McGrady
PF Okafor
C Howard

Not horrible, but not great, I hate Lue at PG but oh well, maybe Gaines will improve.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Lue will most likely not be a starter next season.. managmeent said so..


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## uscback2back (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Sad thing is, if we do not have much cap room we will have to deal with two mistakes in Tyronn Lue and Juan Howard.
> 
> And Hill, he is a no go, no way he will come back from injury. Maybe if he did we would have hope but I doubt he will.
> ...


No way that piss poor lineup makes the playoffs, Okafor def isnt the savior, esp. in his rookie year. The magic would still be the worst team in the league with that lineup ( besides the bobcats). 
Are you sure gaines will get better?? Sasser sure didnt


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>uscback2back</b>!
> 
> No way that piss poor lineup makes the playoffs, Okafor def isnt the savior, esp. in his rookie year. The magic would still be the worst team in the league with that lineup ( besides the bobcats).
> Are you sure gaines will get better?? Sasser sure didnt


I agree. That lineup would lead to maybe marginally better success, but not much.

But there is no way Orlando starts next year with that lineup. Lue definitely wont be starting. Orlando management and even Lue himself have said that he is not a starter in the NBA.

And Howard wont be starting at center, that is for sure. If Howard was capable of playing center, he would have done it last year with Gooden starting at PF. And obviously they werent confident that could happen because they barely used those two together at PF and C, only at SF and PF.


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## ShakeTiller (Oct 13, 2003)

There is a lot of nonsense in this thread. Fred Jones isn't a PG. Emeka Okafer is not a PF; he's got no game more than 5 feet from the basket. He is an undersized C. He might end up being the next Alonzo Morning. Then again, he might end up just being another undersized Center. Drew Gooden is not a SF. He is a PF with some face the basket skills he can use against PF defenders, but not against SF defenders.

Thank you for your time.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShakeTiller</b>!
> There is a lot of nonsense in this thread. Fred Jones isn't a PG. Emeka Okafer is not a PF; he's got no game more than 5 feet from the basket. He is an undersized C. He might end up being the next Alonzo Morning. Then again, he might end up just being another undersized Center. Drew Gooden is not a SF. He is a PF with some face the basket skills he can use against PF defenders, but not against SF defenders.
> 
> Thank you for your time.


I agree with all except Okafor. I think Okafor's best position will be PF. You don't have to have outside range to play PF. And Emeka is capable of hitting some short range jumpers.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Lue definitely wont be starting. Orlando management and even Lue himself have said that he is not a starter in the NBA.


 Ok if "management" is so smart then why didn't they realize he is NOT a NBA starting PG before they got him? They are a little to late for that comment, how about they just don't get him in the first place.

Okafor is not a PF? Ok um he is not even 6-9 and does not weight 240 pounds, yeah put him at center, that sounds good. He is not Ben Wallace, Ben is big, they call him Big Ben for a reason, he is strong and wide, Emeka is not and never will be.

Sure some of my lineups are not great, but I do not know how much cash they got, and it sounds like they do not have a lot. 


So they should trade Howard and Lue but who would want those two rejects? Howard is solid and all but he is nothing if the team he is playing for does not have a true center. And Orlando can't get a ture center, and if they draft Emeka which they will they have a position problem.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Ok if "management" is so smart then why didn't they realize he is NOT a NBA starting PG before they got him? They are a little to late for that comment, how about they just don't get him in the first place.


I'm not disagreeing at all. They know they made a mistake. Doc Rivers thought Lue could be a good starting PG because of his one series in the Finals against Philly guarding Iverson. When Lue himself says he shouldnt be starting, obviously there is something wrong there.



> Okafor is not a PF? Ok um he is not even 6-9 and does not weight 240 pounds, yeah put him at center, that sounds good. He is not Ben Wallace, Ben is big, they call him Big Ben for a reason, he is strong and wide, Emeka is not and never will be.
> 
> Sure some of my lineups are not great, but I do not know how much cash they got, and it sounds like they do not have a lot.


Again, I'm not disagreeing. I didnt say put Okafor at C. I think he should absolutely be playing PF if drafted and that playing him at center will only hurt his future. Emeka is pretty big though. Ben Wallace is thicker and more ripped, but Emeka is a pretty good sized bull himself. I certainly hope Orlando finds a center from somewhere so Okie wouldnt have to play C. But Howard definitely cannot do it either.




> So they should trade Howard and Lue but who would want those two rejects? Howard is solid and all but he is nothing if the team he is playing for does not have a true center. And Orlando can't get a ture center, and if they draft Emeka which they will they have a position problem.


Yet again, all in agreement here. No one is going to take Lue or Howard unless the #1 pick goes along with it. That is why everything is pointing towards Gooden being dealt if anyone. He still has potential to be a good player and is relatively young. Throw in Gaines who someone might believe he can still be good and maybe they can get themselves a decent starting PG or maybe an extra mid-1st round pick.


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## ShakeTiller (Oct 13, 2003)

> I agree with all except Okafor. I think Okafor's best position will be PF. You don't have to have outside range to play PF.


There are two types of PF's in the NBA. There are the elite PF's -- Webber, R. Wallace, Garnett, Malone (in his prime), Nowitski, Brand, O'Neal, etc. All of them have a face the basket game and range out to 15 - 18'. The second type are the lunch bucket, rebounder/defender types epitomized by Ben Wallace (now playing C) and Dennis Rodman in his prime. These guys are usually found on the draft scrap heap.

Okafor clearly doesn't have the game of the elite group. I'm not sure why you would want to spend the #1 pick in the draft for a guy who at PF is no better than what you can find in the NBDL.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Ok if "management" is so smart then why didn't they realize he is NOT a NBA starting PG before they got him? They are a little to late for that comment, how about they just don't get him in the first place.


Well if you haven't noticed since this time last year, the face of the Orlando Magic has changed considerably. Doc Rivers and his coaches are no longer with the team, Gabriel is no longer the General Manager but a "consultant" for the team. Davis and Weisbrod are relatively new, and perhaps the change of this "management" has brought different thoughts about the ability of Lue? I dunno, it just seemed somewhat obvious that different GM's and different Coaches have different plans.
You're right, they are a little too late but the management making these comments now (Wiesbrod) were not with the team last summer, so how exactly do you expect him to have stopped events which he was not apart of? It's definitely not rocket science!:no:


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShakeTiller</b>!
> Okafor clearly doesn't have the game of the elite group. I'm not sure why you would want to spend the #1 pick in the draft for a guy who at PF is no better than what you can find in the NBDL.


I wouldnt want to. If you are saying Okafor is no better than PFs in the NBDL you are nuts.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

If Tracy leaves would I want Dwight over Emeka? 


Yes I would, with a work ethic and drive like Dwight, he could really be amazing, and if Tracy leaves we would not need production right away next year.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> If Tracy leaves would I want Dwight over Emeka?
> 
> 
> Yes I would, with a work ethic and drive like Dwight, he could really be amazing, and if Tracy leaves we would not need production right away next year.


Amen Ozzy. I agree 200% with your thinking. You should come around here more often! :yes:!
Although, I have no problem with Okafor because I believe he'll be great too.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

It is really a toss-up between Okafor and Howard. There is no one who can say for any certainty which guy will end up the better player. At this point it would appear Howard will be the better scorer and more of a SF/PF like KG, whereas Okafor may not be as good of a scorer but could be just as effective defensively and rebounding.

You can pretty much flip a coin at this point. Personally, I'd take Okafor. Considering all Orlando's problems with defense and rebounding for the last handful of years, Okafor could go a long way to help in those areas.


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## darkballa (Sep 19, 2003)

how many threads have there been like this one? There's been at least 20 this season. but hell one more wouldnt hurt. like I said in the other offseason trades

SIGN PG

Carlos Arroyo
Jamal Crawford
Damon Jones(not sure about him but 5.7 apg is good)
Antonio daniels would be nice as his scoring and passing have been equal with lue with 10 min less playing time. if we give him 30 mpg hell get around 12 and 5.

SG and SF (too many sgs and sfs in roster)

PF
OKAFOR PERIOD

C

Trade Howard for Chandler/Anderson/Dampier/ Foyle


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