# Race to MVP



## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Well boys and girls, it's about that time again, and it feels good to be back. So, who is going to take the league by storm this year? Will LeBron redeem himself? Or will D-Rose repeat? Possibly one of the boys in Los Angeles will make some noise.

I'm going to go out and throw Kevin Durant out as my early favorite. He's made significant strides in every year he's been in the league and his supporting cast has evolved to the point of the Thunder being a legitimate title contender.

Have at it guys.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I'm going with Durant.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Chris Paul.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

LeBron


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Durant has started slow in every season. The first month of every season in his career has been pretty bad (relatively). If he does that this year, he has no chance. If he bypasses the slow start with the shortened season, I like his chances.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Good to see you back Sir Patchwork. Yeah I have noticed Duran't slow starts every year, but the MVP is won in the second half of the season, not the first. Nobody was picking Derrick Rose this time last year to even make the All NBA first team let alone the MVP.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

I'll be the Grinch in honor of Christmas.

Who cares? MVP is a garbage award. Always has been. Always will be. That's why Steve Nash has two. I don't care who wins.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Adam said:


> I'll be the Grinch in honor of Christmas.
> 
> Who cares? MVP is a garbage award. Always has been. Always will be. That's why Steve Nash has two. I don't care who wins.


You're right - there's plenty of occasions where the wrong player is given the award, and calling it a garbage award is fair from the standpoint that Stevie has as many as Kobe and Shaquille combined, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun to debate about who the *rightful* MVP of the league is.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

LeBron put on a show with 37/10/6 in their ass whoopin'.

Durant had a cool 30/5/6 on 11/19 too.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

LeBron had the most impressive performance today to my knowledge. He has my vote because I think he is going to have a monster season and the Heat are going to win 50-55 games.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Honestly I don't think there are more than 2 really good teams in the East and a lot of teams that are going to be complete shit. Since the MVP has become the award for the best player on the team with the best winning percentage Lebron has a big advantage, especially since Rose won last year while he was clearly not as good a player.


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## SliceBajs (Dec 24, 2011)

Durant's the man.... if westbrook gives him the ball


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

CP3 was nasty to close out the Warriors last night. He pretty much just came on in the final two minutes and was like "game ovah".

Clippers are going to be the big NBA story this year if things go how they are looking. If the Thunder and Clippers finished tied for best record, CP3 would get the MVP over Durant I think.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Lebron AGAIN. Hopefully he's the MVP of the finals this time.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

If the Clippers finish within 5 games of the Thunder in the standings, it's CP3's award to lose. He will be credited with the turn around.


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## rayz789 (Oct 30, 2008)

Diable said:


> Honestly I don't think there are more than 2 really good teams in the East and a lot of teams that are going to be complete shit. Since the MVP has become the award for the best player on the team with the best winning percentage Lebron has a big advantage, *especially since Rose won last year while he was clearly not as good a player*.


:banghead:


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## jaw2929 (Dec 11, 2011)

It's going to be Durant or CP3. It'd better not be LeBitch.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

26/8/5 for Kobe tonight in a beatdown of the Jazz.

Lebron had a good game in a win over the Celtics too, I don't have the numbers handy though.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Kevin surely doesnt look like he's going to start slow this year. For a stretch during that Twolves game he was doing absolutely whatever he wanted.

That said every year is LeBrons award to lose at this point.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Going with wade as the dark horse. 

But i think this is durant's year. All the stars are aligned.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

^ I don't think a player has ever won the award while being the second best player on the team. So that'd be new and exciting.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

VanillaPrice said:


> ^ I don't think a player has ever won the award while being the second best player on the team. So that'd be new and exciting.


That would be retarded (c) LeBron James


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Durant with the game winner over the Mavs, finished with 30/11/6.

Kid is playing some great basketball.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Unless CP3 or Kobe have a monster season it's going to come down to whh team wins more games, OKC-Durant and MIA-LeBron.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I'd love to see Kobe go nuts now that he's not in a stat killer system and put up something like 29/6/6 and win MVP. It's not like we're going to win the championship or anything, but seeing him get another would be an okay consolation prize. Dude got robbed pretty badly in '06 and '07.

I still have my money on Durant though. I don't think that the media is done scrutinizing James and KD is the next best option/story at this point, and that's what this award really boils down to.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

The media pretty much announces their media dealing early in the season and it might be Durant after he had that moment giving his mom a kiss on national tv. TE media eats that kin of stuff up. But I think you might be right about LeBron. He's trying to clean up his image but the media still has him in the hot seat.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Next year will be 'Bron's redemption season, just calling it now.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Speaking of Kobe - he's putting up nearly 28/7/6 through three games and is playing well tonight. Vintage dark horse status.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

It's VERY early but Durant is clearly in the lead right now, especially after tonight.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Collision course coming: LeBron vs. Durant as the next Magic/Bird. Good vs. Evil instead of the black white dynamic. The glitz of South Beach vs. the American Midwest.

So many story lines...$o many $tory line$


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Its early, but as of now its a Durant/LeBron race and I would give the edge to Durant.


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## rayz789 (Oct 30, 2008)

Right now durant is clearly ahead and shoulders above every top players as the lead canidate for mvp. He's been amazing so far and that buzzer beater to win the game just proves it.


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## SWIFTSLICK (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm a Bulls fan and I love what Derrick Rose brings to my team. But If KD keeps playing like he did last night, he's a LOCK for MVP. Durant gets my early vote.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

bball2223 said:


> Its early, but as of now its a Durant/LeBron race and I would give the edge to Durant.












Lebron FG% 59 PPG 33 RPG 7.3 APG 6.0 SPG 2.3 BPG 1.7 EFF 38.00
Durant FG% 57 PPG 31 RPG 6.3 APG 2.7 SPG 1.2 BPG 1 EFF 31.50

Keep drinkin that haterade BOI


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

I know it's incredibly early, but Lebron is top 20 in the NBA in PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG, and FG%.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Like I say every year the people who vote in this thing are the same people you hear, read and see everyday, and they're not going to shutup about Durant, even though Vanilla this is LeBrons true redeeming season which will probably end with a ring. They wont jump back on his nuts nh until he does that.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Dre said:


> Like I say every year the people who vote in this thing are the same people you hear, read and see everyday, and they're not going to shutup about Durant, even though *Vanilla this is LeBrons true redeeming season which will probably end with a ring.* They wont jump back on his nuts nh until he does that.


I know, I was saying that the media isn't going to give him an MVP award until he wins a ring, which will probably be this year, meaning he won't get another MVP until next year when he's back in their good graces.

But if we're going by the stats here, then Kevin Love was a top five player in the world last year and should have been on the all NBA first team. Not saying that 'Bron is an empty stats guy or anything, but the stats paint an incorrect picture as to how much big the gap is between him and Durant.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Before the season I would have said Durant, but 3 games in I've locked in my vote to LeBron James. Obviously he's not going to shoot 59% from the field for the rest of the season but I can see him having his best season of his career with a 33-8-8-2-2 on 55% shooting from the field, ~35% from 3 (less attempts this season), and around 80% from the free throw line. You look at legends and their season averages are pretty close to their career averages but you always see a season or two where you look at the numbers and you're like "holy shit". This is LeBron's "holy shit" year.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

gi0rdun said:


> This is LeBron's "holy shit" year.


If you're right, I can't wait to watch it unfold. Even if I don't like the player, I love "holy shit" years. That's the reason I love the NBA more than any other pro sport.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Lebron is going to live at the free throw line if he keeps playing like he has so far. People are going to foul him on the drive same as they always have, but now they are going to foul him in the post too. Right now he is getting extremely easy shots where all he has to do is turn, elevate and hit like an 8 or 10 foot shot. Luol Deng might be able to stay in front of him and body up with him in the post, but you can't think of many other guys who can.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

I remember Kobe's "holy shit" year. It was amazing to watch.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I remember Kobe's "holy shit" year. It was amazing to watch.


I also remember Shaq and Duncan having back-to-back "holy shit" years in '01 and '02. I'd love to see Howard do something like that in the next 3 or 4 seasons.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Kobe's holy doo doo year included him scrapping the Raptors for 81 points. Now that was some serious holy shitting.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

BlackNRed said:


> Lebron FG% 59 PPG 33 RPG 7.3 APG 6.0 SPG 2.3 BPG 1.7 EFF 38.00
> Durant FG% 57 PPG 31 RPG 6.3 APG 2.7 SPG 1.2 BPG 1 EFF 31.50
> 
> Keep drinkin that haterade BOI


I gave LeBron his due (saying it was a two person race), I also factored in that if Durant keeps playing at his current level the media hype train is going to fuel his MVP candidacy more than LeBrons. Considering I've been a big defender of LeBron on these boards for the past 4-5 years I would hardly consider myself a hater, but to each their own.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

bball2223 said:


> I gave LeBron his due (saying it was a two person race), I also factored in that if Durant keeps playing at his current level the media hype train is going to fuel his MVP candidacy more than LeBrons. Considering I've been a big defender of LeBron on these boards for the past 4-5 years I would hardly consider myself a hater, but to each their own.


Statistically Lebron is whipping KD across the board. I don't see how that gives KD the edge, as you said. And the guy who posted after you is as smart as a walnut.

P.S. Happy Birthday Lebron James.!


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I would say LeBron had his most impressive individual season in Cleveland...but with this post game and improved jumper these next two years should be mastery ala McGrady 04(?) or 06 Kobe...


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Dre said:


> I would say LeBron had his most impressive individual season in Cleveland...but with this post game and improved jumper these next two years should be mastery ala McGrady 04(?) or 06 Kobe...


His post game has been siiick.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

BlackNRed said:


> Statistically Lebron is whipping KD across the board. I don't see how that gives KD the edge, as you said. And the guy who posted after you is as smart as a walnut.
> 
> P.S. Happy Birthday Lebron James.!


Whipping? :laugh: 

You act as if were comparing Bron's numbers to a guy like Rodney Sutckey's, the gap isn't that huge. Never did I say LeBron was out of the MVP race or any of that, just that with his play and the influence of the media on such awards I would give Durant the edge as of now. You don't have to get all defensive because I'm not crowning your boy. I still think Bron's the best player in the L, just that Durant has a slight edge in the MVP race ONE WEEK into the season.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

bball2223 said:


> Whipping? :laugh:
> 
> You act as if were comparing Bron's numbers to a guy like Rodney Sutckey's, the gap isn't that huge. Never did I say LeBron was out of the MVP race or any of that, just that with his play and the influence of the media on such awards I would give Durant the edge as of now. You don't have to get all defensive because I'm not crowning your boy. I still think Bron's the best player in the L, just that Durant has a slight edge in the MVP race ONE WEEK into the season.


Durant will never be on Lebron's level, lets just get real.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The MVP is not about who is better. It is about whatever the voters decide it is about. Go find yourself the instructions on the ballot, basically there are none. You buy a car you can go crash it into a wall so long as you own the wall too. You get an MVP vote you can do as you damn well please with it. Durant could win the MVP based on nothing more than being more likeable than Lebron.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

IMO LeBron is ahead based on his defense. The have both been very efficient on the offensive end with LeBron being more efficient he has also helped his team on both sides of the floor more than Durant has.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Lebron 34-10-8 60% shooting tonight. It's not even fair to poor KD.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Derrick Rose with a monster 29/8/16 while shitting on CP3 down the stretch. Dominance.


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## rayz789 (Oct 30, 2008)

BlackNRed said:


> Durant will never be on Lebron's level, lets just get real.


Never be on Lebron's level? Huh? Oh i'm sorry Lebron has won rings is that right? If not then how can Durant not be on Lebron's level? So far Durant for the past 2 years and right now Durant is very very close or right next to Lebron's level. I'm a huge lebron fan btw.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

rayz789 said:


> Never be on Lebron's level? Huh? Oh i'm sorry Lebron has won rings is that right? If not then how can Durant not be on Lebron's level? So far Durant for the past 2 years and right now Durant is very very close or right next to Lebron's level. I'm a huge lebron fan btw.


I'm the biggest Durant fan on this site, but he isn't on LeBron's level. LeBron's passing ability (one of the five best passers in the league) and defensive ability (only Dwight has a biggest impact defensively than LeBron) separate him. Durant is a better scorer, but not by that big of a margin. It really comes down to Durant's slight advantage as a scorer vs. LeBron's huge advantage as a passer/defender. 

Right now it's definitely LeBron or Durant for MVP though. Nobody else really comes to mind at this point.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

IMO D Wade has been a better defensive player early on this year than LeBron James. Just goes to show you, that everything LeBron does on the court will be hyped. A shame, because while James is a great all around player, he's certainly not the second most impactful defensive player behind only Dwight Howard. Far from it actually. There are plenty of guys you could substitue in for LeBron on defense. Where LeBron certainly separates himself from other similiar defensive players, for example like a Gerald Wallace, is LeBrons great offensive skill. 

My picks for MVP are the usual.

Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
LeBron James
Dwight Howard
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant

My darkhorse ...

Blake Griffin.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

VanillaPrice said:


> Derrick Rose with a monster 29/8/16 while shitting on CP3 down the stretch. Dominance.


This.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

rayz789 said:


> Never be on Lebron's level? Huh? Oh i'm sorry Lebron has won rings is that right? If not then how can Durant not be on Lebron's level? So far Durant for the past 2 years and right now Durant is very very close or right next to Lebron's level. I'm a huge lebron fan btw.


You know I'm talking about talent level smart ass.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I'm the biggest Durant fan on this site, *but he isn't on LeBron's level*. *LeBron's passing ability (one of the five best passers in the league) and defensive ability (only Dwight has a biggest impact defensively than LeBron) *separate him. Durant is a better scorer, but not by that big of a margin. It really comes down to Durant's slight advantage as a scorer vs. LeBron's huge advantage as a passer/defender.
> 
> Right now it's definitely LeBron or Durant for MVP though. Nobody else really comes to mind at this point.


Severall things wrong with this post.

First of all, if Durant (arguably a Top-5 player in the league) is NOT in Lebron's "level", that must mean that Lebron is NOT the player we saw in the NBA Finals. Twice. Must be some other player. 

Then, why take into account Lebron's passing when Surant (a SF) isn't asked to play point forward? Why would i want Durant to pass the ball? He's arguably the best scorer in the league, man, i want him to shoot it, not pass it.

ANd Lebron James is, all of the sudden, the second best defender in the league? That blew my mind, man!
I'm starting to agree with Drunkie. A highlight reel of a from-the-behind fastbreak block is worth more than a couple of years of tenacious defense from a non-star player.

Meh.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> Then, why take into account Lebron's passing when Surant (a SF) isn't asked to play point forward? Why would i want Durant to pass the ball? He's arguably the best scorer in the league, man, i want him to shoot it, not pass it.


This is an interesting point. It is easy to critique Durant's lack of playmaking abilities, especially when comparing him to Lebron James. But if you construct the right team around Durant...who cares. Like you say, his job is to score it, not pass it. In that sense Durant could definitely be the MVP when put into the perfect situation. It is too bad Westbrook is not a more "traditional" PG, I could see someone like Rondo or CP3 making Durant even more lethal than he is already. Then again, he could do alot worse than Westbrook by that same token.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Its a give and take...LeBron is a better passer by far but you have to deal with him not wanting to close the game down or use his ability to get by and through anyone because he wants to pass. I think LeBrons fatal flaw will be never realizing theres times you cant pass it to anyone but the most dominant offensive player in the game, which is he.

They're both 3s. By virtue you're supposed to have a backcourt that can move the ball anyway, which the Thunder do, and Durant is a good passer in the context of his role. 

At the end of the day, LeBrons passing is an edge and cool wrinkle but not some "by far" disparity because he sacrifices scoring in crucial moments. Durant is by no means selfish.

It's a team game, so any comparison has to be in the context of the players around these skillsets. Id almost venture to say because of LeBrons identity crises you could take Durant's shooting and mismatch ability and not lose a ton on offense.

LeBron is becoming a very good defender though, and thats the difference between the two.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Its a give and take...LeBron is a better passer by far but you have to deal with him not wanting to close the game down or use his ability to get by and through anyone because he wants to pass. I think LeBrons fatal flaw will be never realizing theres times you cant pass it to anyone but the most dominant offensive player in the game, which is he.

They're both 3s. By virtue you're supposed to have a backcourt that can move the ball anyway, which the Thunder do, and Durant is a good passer in the context of his role. 

At the end of the day, LeBrons passing is an edge and cool wrinkle but not some "by far" disparity because he sacrifices scoring in crucial moments. Durant is by no means selfish.

It's a team game, so any comparison has to be in the context of the players around these skillsets. Id almost venture to say because of LeBrons identity crises you could take Durant's shooting and mismatch ability and not lose a ton on offense.

LeBron is becoming a very good defender though, and thats the difference between the two.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

It's an exaggeration to say Lebron has an identify crisis, though I understand you were just making a point and it's a point I can't disagree with. And that is, Lebron's role is maybe not as defined as it could be. The guy is so good at so many things, but at the end of the day he is only one man and he cannot do everything all the time. The one thing I see out of most championship squads is that every player knows their role and does a damn good job at it consistently. Does Lebron know his role? Is he the playmaker? The defensive stopper? The slasher? The shooter? I can't help but wonder if he would be better off just choosing a couple things, perfect them, and make that his permanent identity; then let the other 6-7 guys in the rotation fill in the gaps. I think that is something Durant clearly has over Lebron; a well defined identity. You know exactly what Durant's job is out there every night and that's shoot the heck out of the ball.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> Then, why take into account Lebron's passing when Surant (a SF) isn't asked to play point forward? Why would i want Durant to pass the ball? He's arguably the best scorer in the league, man, i want him to shoot it, not pass it.


When teams double and triple team (which will probably happen to the best scorer in the league), I think passing skills and court vision/awareness are kind of important. 



PauloCatarino said:


> ANd Lebron James is, all of the sudden, the second best defender in the league? That blew my mind, man!


Not all of the sudden, pretty consistently over the past 2-3 years. The defensive impact statistics back that up. Only Dwight has consistently had more defensive impact. It's no coincedence that he has been the best defensive player (pretty easily) on top 2-3 defensive teams on both Cleveland and Miami. 



PauloCatarino said:


> I'm starting to agree with Drunkie. A highlight reel of a from-the-behind fastbreak block is worth more than a couple of years of tenacious defense from a non-star player.


You're the one that completely dismisses advanced statistics in favor of your own (bias) viewpoints. That's as bad or worse than being a highlight reel fan.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> When teams double and triple team (which will probably happen to the best scorer in the league), I think passing skills and court vision/awareness are kind of important.


Do you see Durant having a big problem passing out of a double or triple team?



> Not all of the sudden, pretty consistently over the past 2-3 years. The defensive impact statistics back that up. Only Dwight has consistently had more defensive impact. It's no coincedence that he has been the best defensive player (pretty easily) on top 2-3 defensive teams on both Cleveland and Miami.
> 
> You're the one that completely dismisses advanced statistics in favor of your own (bias) viewpoints. That's as bad or worse than being a highlight reel fan.


You got me all wrong, Patches! I'm all for advanced statistics!
That's why Pau Gasol SHOULD be considered a Top-5 palyer in the NBA (last year he was #2 in OWS and #9 in DWS)! And why Kevin Love is a better offensive player than Durant, Dirk or Kobe!


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Dre said:


> Its a give and take...LeBron is a better passer by far but you have to deal with him not wanting to close the game down or use his ability to get by and through anyone because he wants to pass. I think LeBrons fatal flaw will be never realizing theres times you cant pass it to anyone but the most dominant offensive player in the game, which is he.
> 
> They're both 3s. By virtue you're supposed to have a backcourt that can move the ball anyway, which the Thunder do, and Durant is a good passer in the context of his role.
> 
> ...


Summed it up perfectly.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> Do you see Durant having a big problem passing out of a double or triple team?


Sometimes, yes. The point is that LeBron is great at both, so you have to pick the lesser of two evils. It's like saying, who cares if Chris Paul can score when he can pass his ass off? Well being a scoring threat draws attention that actually enables him to find more opportunities as a passer. The two are interrelated and create a bigger dilemna for defenses when you've mastered both aspects, as LeBron has. 



PauloCatarino said:


> You got me all wrong, Patches! I'm all for advanced statistics!
> That's why Pau Gasol SHOULD be considered a Top-5 palyer in the NBA (last year he was #2 in OWS and #9 in DWS)! And why Kevin Love is a better offensive player than Durant, Dirk or Kobe!


I see that you're still in the cherry picking stats mode, and not in the use of statistics in proper context mode. You'll get there Paulo, one day. 

Again, LeBron has been the most impactful defensive player on top 5 defenses for years now, and that's without a defensive anchor most years. That's with two entirely different teams. Stats aside, that says something in itself. Observationally, he is one of the few defenders in the league who is really good straight up man to man, and really good in the passing lanes. Man to man, he has the body strength to deal with stronger forwards, and the quickness/length to deal with quicker ones. He has a nose for the ball and awesome recovery speed within the confines of help defense. He frequently sags off his man to play passing lanes, and when his man is passed the ball, he is fast enough to close out, contest the shot, and still be in position if his man penetrates. Defensively, he is just extremely disruptive. These stats, team results and observations coincide with each other. His limitation is being a perimeter player, because a Dwight Howard type will always be more valuable defensively, but there really isn't any other Dwight Howard's in the league right now.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Sometimes, yes. The point is that LeBron is great at both, so you have to pick the lesser of two evils. It's like saying, who cares if Chris Paul can score when he can pass his ass off? Well being a scoring threat draws attention that actually enables him to find more opportunities as a passer. The two are interrelated and create a bigger dilemna for defenses when you've mastered both aspects, as LeBron has.


I think you are confusing things, Patches.

One thing is being a good creator of shot opportunities for teammates (ergo, assists); other is having problems passing (not assisting) the ball out of double or triple teams.

What i said was that i don't see the need for Durant, a SF who is arguably the best scorer in the league, to be great at distributing the ball, cause that is not (and neither should it be) his task. 
And that it doesn't take anything away from him.



> I see that you're still in the cherry picking stats mode, and not in the use of statistics in proper context mode. You'll get there Paulo, one day.
> 
> Again, LeBron has been the most impactful defensive player on top 5 defenses for years now, and that's without a defensive anchor most years. That's with two entirely different teams. Stats aside, that says something in itself. Observationally, he is one of the few defenders in the league who is really good straight up man to man, and really good in the passing lanes. Man to man, he has the body strength to deal with stronger forwards, and the quickness/length to deal with quicker ones. He has a nose for the ball and awesome recovery speed within the confines of help defense. He frequently sags off his man to play passing lanes, and when his man is passed the ball, he is fast enough to close out, contest the shot, and still be in position if his man penetrates. Defensively, he is just extremely disruptive. These stats, team results and observations coincide with each other. His limitation is being a perimeter player, because a Dwight Howard type will always be more valuable defensively, but there really isn't any other Dwight Howard's in the league right now.


Hey, i wasn't the one saying that Lebron James is a top-2 defender in the NBA because "advanced statistics" prove that.
If you have any faith in "advanced statistics", then i don't know how you can go against THAT criteria when "advanced statistics" SHOW that Pau Gasol is a Top-5 player in the NBA. And that Kevin Love, etc., etc.

Wether you like it or not, Lebron James is not a Top-2 defender i the league. And he is nowhere near.
And wether you like it or not, Lebron James's on passing the ball means very little to the argument of JAmes vs Durant.

Is James a better defender than Durant? Yes, he is.
Is James in a upper tier, compared to Durant? Absolutely not.

And i'm talking about the REGULAR SEASON LEbron James, off course.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> Summed it up perfectly.


Just re-read Dre's post again; have to say it's probably the best post in the thread and dead accurate.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> I think you are confusing things, Patches.
> 
> One thing is being a good creator of shot opportunities for teammates (ergo, assists); other is having problems passing (not assisting) the ball out of double or triple teams.
> 
> ...


It does take away from him in comparison to someone who can do those things. That's like saying we shouldn't consider Monta Ellis' inability to distribute a strike against him when comparing him to other scoring guards, like Derrick Rose for example. Monta is a better scorer than Derrick Rose, and since that's all Ellis is expected to do, we can't credit Rose for being a better passer/distributor? That's disgusting logic. Ellis isn't asked to distribute because he isn't good at it, and the same can be said for Durant. 



PauloCatarino said:


> Hey, i wasn't the one saying that Lebron James is a top-2 defender in the NBA because "advanced statistics" prove that.
> If you have any faith in "advanced statistics", then i don't know how you can go against THAT criteria when "advanced statistics" SHOW that Pau Gasol is a Top-5 player in the NBA. And that Kevin Love, etc., etc.


I already explained this. There is no end-all measure. Everything is a resource to be taken in context. I factor everything into my opinions. If I cite an advanced statistic, it won't be on an island by itself. It'll be coupled with other resources.



PauloCatarino said:


> Wether you like it or not, Lebron James is not a Top-2 defender i the league. And he is nowhere near.


Compelling. Up is really down. Anyone can say things that aren't true.



PauloCatarino said:


> And wether you like it or not, Lebron James's on passing the ball means very little to the argument of JAmes vs Durant.


I see, and Dwight Howard's defensive ability means little when comparing him to Kevin Love. 



PauloCatarino said:


> And i'm talking about the REGULAR SEASON LEbron James, off course.


If Durant accomplishes anything close to what LeBron has accomplished in the playoffs by age 26, I'll be ecstatic as an OKC fan.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Dre said:


> Its a give and take...LeBron is a better.


You coulda stopped there. :banghead:


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

depends who finishes number one in the east again. Lebron or rose.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

So far it has easily been LeBron James. With that said I still don't know if he will ever get the award again, given the other MVP caliber talent he's playing with, splitting votes with him.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Is Kobe getting some consideration yet?


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Kobe has a shot at finishing 2nd in voting.....but this award is Lebron's to lose.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It will most likely go to the guy on the team that finishes with the best record. So Lebron and Kobe won't be winning it if the Bulls and Thunder finish ahead of them in the standings. Just sayin'


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Kobe is officially a real canidate. Not the frontrunner, but he has to be getting some serious consideration.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Kobe Bean


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

He'll win it or his hand will fall off trying.


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## DunkMaster (Mar 1, 2011)

futuristxen said:


> It will most likely go to the guy on the team that finishes with the best record. So Lebron and Kobe won't be winning it if the Bulls and Thunder finish ahead of them in the standings. Just sayin'


I'd say the chances of the Bulls having the best record is very very high because of their depth and the packed schedule. I learned after last year that doesn't translate neccesarily to the best playoff team, but I doubt Rose gets the MVP this year since his stats are surely dropping this year due to less dependance and him not being as big of a story as last year.


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

I think the MVP will go to the best player on the team that wins the West..I'm thinking Durant or Kobe


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Can't believe the poll...only 9 votes for Rose and 17 for Durant and 15 for James?

No way.

Rose has got it again this year.


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

Derrick Rose maybe the youngest repeat MVP in NBA history, he is shooting the long ball with more confidence and his assist number are up. If he continues what he is doing I think hands down he gets it, if he does not however I think you gotta give it to the Mamba..he is defying the odds.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Bulls have the inside track on the league's best record due largely to their depth, capped by Rose's ability to finish games in the clutch. That said, Rose is picking his spots more this year and they don't need him scoring 25+ ppg to win games (not right now, at least). I don't think that will buy him enough MVP votes to repeat. There is bound to be another team or two that wins nearly as many games but via greater dependence on their superstar, such as Kobe or Durant. I guess my prediction would be Durant, you could make a similar argument for him as with Dirk Nowitzki back in 2006; super efficient 25+ ppg, unquestioned alpha dog on his team, and for the best team in his respective conference.

Also IMO, with Wade's injury problems these days, Lebron's chances of winning MVP has gone up significantly, especially if Wade misses a long string of games. He is putting up ridiculous numbers and I'm sure Miami will be right up there near the top of the standings.


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

yodurk said:


> Bulls have the inside track on the league's best record due largely to their depth, capped by Rose's ability to finish games in the clutch. That said, Rose is picking his spots more this year and they don't need him scoring 25+ ppg to win games (not right now, at least). I don't think that will buy him enough MVP votes to repeat. There is bound to be another team or two that wins nearly as many games but via greater dependence on their superstar, such as Kobe or Durant. I guess my prediction would be Durant, you could make a similar argument for him as with Dirk Nowitzki back in 2006; super efficient 25+ ppg, unquestioned alpha dog on his team, and for the best team in his respective conference.
> 
> Also IMO, with Wade's injury problems these days, Lebron's chances of winning MVP has gone up significantly, especially if Wade misses a long string of games. He is putting up ridiculous numbers and I'm sure Miami will be right up there near the top of the standings.


Durant and or Wade can't really argue that, I was giving Rose MVP in comparison to the back to back Nash MVP years where he just picked teams apart and pretty much just showed up in the clutch but was super efficient through out, but if Nash is not there even with that teams depth they are no were near as good if he is in the lineup same with the Bulls.


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## Neal (Jan 15, 2012)

I'd like for Rose to get it, but I bet it goes to Kobe Bryant...


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I wonder if Kobe could win the MVP with a 6-8 seed, if he averaged between 36-40 a game? It would be an interesting test of the usual MVP bullcrap.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Doubt it.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

there is no possible way that kobe can keep up this pace.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Drewbs said:


> there is no possible way that kobe can keep up this pace.


Didn't he have a month where he averaged close to 40 a game in his prime?

It's not like he's playing amazing well to get his 40 points a game. He's getting a workmanlike 40 points, if there is such a thing. He's grinding out the 40. If he had a good night he would put up 70.


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## Neal (Jan 15, 2012)

futuristxen said:


> Didn't he have a month where he averaged close to 40 a game in his prime?
> 
> It's not like he's playing amazing well to get his 40 points a game. He's getting a workmanlike 40 points, if there is such a thing. He's grinding out the 40. If he had a good night he would put up 70.


That's true. I mean, the guy is paid to go out their and do his thing. However, he is having to work for it.

By the way, congratulations to the Clippers!


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Zero votes for Dwight? He just dropped 45 and 23 the other night! I guess this has become a guards award.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Blue said:


> Zero votes for Dwight? He just dropped 45 and 23 the other night! I guess this has become a guards award.


I am not sure how Dwight could even be in the MVP discussion (let alone win the award) when he is trying to squirm his way out of Orlando, which is simply an unnecessary distraction detracting from his team's success.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

The award rarely goes to the best player in the league anymore. Typically, it goes to the best player on the best or second best team in the conference. Right now it's either Rose or Durant due to their team's record.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

yodurk said:


> I am not sure how Dwight could even be in the MVP discussion (let alone win the award) when he is trying to squirm his way out of Orlando, which is simply an unnecessary distraction detracting from his team's success.


Agreed, a guy can't be the MVP when he's trying to ruin the team he's on.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Plus Dwight has been terrible for a lot of games this season. He's pulling a Vince Carter some of these nights.

And those numbers are inflated because of the stupid amount of times he shot free throws that game--and that he was being guarded by nothing like a center, since Kwame Brown and Biedrins were both injured that game. He was being guarded by what...Lee and Udoh?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Dwight may be "trying" to ruin a team, yet Chris Paul has already ruined a team and still has 8 votes. And Chris Paul isn't even the best candidate at his position, as he already got handled head-to-head by Rose in a losing effort. #WastedVotes


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Dwight is also the only candidate on the list who doesn't play w another current or multi-time all-star. Doing the most w the least = the real veep.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Isn't a little early to start crying over what other people think about the chances that some tall dude gets a trophy? If you want Howard to have one vote so ****ing bad why don't you vote for him?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Im just wondering how he has zero votes is all? He has to be the 2nd or 3rd best candidate, yet he's the only one with zero votes. And then ppl wonder why he wants to play w another all-star... Well, here is your answer. You gets no respect as a big man for carrying a team by yourself. #none


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I have done some research and it appears that Dwight Howard has 'carried the Magic' to one win over a team with a winning record. Is that correct? Well give him the damned trophy now.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

The Magic aren't that good, but Dwight Howard is good. Thats what im saying. They're only competitive and relavent because of him and only him.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

Dwight would have had a good shot of winning it if he hadn't demanded a trade.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Blue said:


> Dwight may be "trying" to ruin a team, yet Chris Paul has already ruined a team and still has 8 votes. And Chris Paul isn't even the best candidate at his position, as he already got handled head-to-head by Rose in a losing effort. #WastedVotes


CP3 isn't trying to ruin the clippers though. I mean some of these games it doesn't even look like Dwight is trying.

I mean there's no excuse for Dwight not to score double figures in a game. Or to get at least ten rebounds every game. Yet there are some games like that already this year. If he was ballin' hard he would be putting up 28/15-18 every night.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Paul wasn't a candidate when he was asking off the Hornets, and Dwight isn't this year. Paul is in the running (although he seems to be deferring more) now that he is in a new situation. When Dwight is in a new situation, he will be back in the running. 

It's not brain science.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Paul never publicly asked for a trade. He simply told the Hornets that he did not intend to sign an extension with them. Howard has done much more than that, but the real fact is that he has been extremely uneven in his play this year. At any rate being an MVP candidate is not all that big of a deal to me, because the most deserving player isn't going to win the award under the current situation. It isn't about who is actually valuable any more, it is about the player with the best storyline.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Paul wasn't a candidate when he was asking off the Hornets, and Dwight isn't this year. Paul is in the running (although he seems to be deferring more) now that he is in a new situation. When Dwight is in a new situation, he will be back in the running.
> 
> It's not brain science.


Patch nailed it. Dwight may get his chance once his future is settled. Until then, there is a big elephant in the Orlando locker room.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

bron bron


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## rudymax34 (Jan 22, 2012)

CP3, for the same reasons Rose won it last year.
However, if the Thunder run away with the West, then Durant should get it. I just don't think that will happen. I think the Clippers, Lakers, and maybe even the Mavs will hang tough with the Thunder, and that there will be a 5-7 win difference between the top 5 or so teams.
Then the winner is.....CHRIS PAUL


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If Bron keeps playing how he's playing, and the Heat keep kicking the ass of good teams, he'll win it. They haven't lost without DWade.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

It's starting to look like LeBron,

Chris Paul should not be considered at this point and time. By no means has he played poorly in Los Angeles, but he's not had anything close to an MVP year.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Chris Paul was well positioned for an MVP opportunity -- similar to how Steve Nash walked into Phoenix and made them elite overnight -- but hasn't been able to capitalize on it yet. Part of it is that he could play better; however it is also related to the Clippers' general youth/immaturity and I doubt Del ***** is the right coach for those guys. That team just needs to play better for him to be considered.

Lebron and Durant seem like the 2 front runners so far...


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

Right now I would say
1. Lebron
2. D. Rose
3. Durant
4. Chris Paul
5. Kobe Bryant


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

It's LeBron and then everyone else at this point. And by everyone else I mean Kobe and KD.

If Rose keeps the Bulls on pace without Luol then I'll throw his name out there too.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

It takes more than three games, but Paul is coming on strong. Three wins in a row against three solid teams (one being arguably the best in the league). He has been outstandingly dominant in all three games. 

He still has time to make his case. He seemed to be deferring a lot of the season, but even so, he has been a model of efficiency. He has sleepwalked into 19ppg/9apg/4rpg shooting 52% FG, 44% 3pt, 85% FT and only 2 turnovers. Those numbers seem to be jumping. 

We'll see if he can stay healthy. That's usually his big hurdle.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

That entire Clippers team has been relatively injury free thusfar. If (big, BIG if) they can stay that way, he will be a top 3 MVP finisher for sure.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I have been impressed with the way Chris has played over the last week or so for sure. He's arguably the best game manager in the world and dictates the flow from start to finish. He's also really good at picking his spots and choosing when to be a scorer and when to go lob city, but I'm certainly not going to back him for MVP at this point. He has plenty of time to make up ground, and her definitely will if he continues at this pace, but this talk is premature.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Is it premature? He has been better than Rose this year, who has had some MVP talks. Not that anyone is really playing on LeBron's level, but LeBron has circumstances that make it hard for him to win. LeBron and Durant are the only ones that I'd say have been clearly more MVP worthy than Paul.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Is it premature? He has been better than Rose this year, who has had some MVP talks. Not that anyone is really playing on LeBron's level, but LeBron has circumstances that make it hard for him to win. LeBron and Durant are the only ones that I'd say have been clearly more MVP worthy than Paul.


He hasn't played better than Rose this year. He's led the Bulls to a better record and destroyed Paul head to head. And you can't really play the teammates card because Griffin is better than anything Derrick has to work with and Billups is better than any guard on the Bulls not named D Rose.

LeBron has been on another level this year, but I do agree that his circumstances make it difficult for him to win. He should at this point, but he probably won't.

Durant has been better than Paul so far and I don't see any reason to say otherwise. Same with Kobe, and same with Rose.

I'd say Paul is the fourth best canidate at this point.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

VanillaPrice said:


> He hasn't played better than Rose this year. He's led the Bulls to a better record and destroyed Paul head to head. And you can't really play the teammates card because Griffin is better than anything Derrick has to work with and Billups is better than any guard on the Bulls not named D Rose.


Paul was playing his 3rd game as a Clipper when they played Chicago. Rose was impressive, but I'm not going to base an entire years MVP standings on one night the first week of the season, a week after Paul was traded (and Paul didn't even play bad, Rose just tore up a new Clippers defense). Clippers have more offensive talent, but the Bulls have great chemistry, defense and coaching. 

Paul has scored less than Rose, but a lot more efficiently. He has clearly been better than Rose in every other way. Clippers are 2nd in their conference too. 

I guess we'll see what happens going forward.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Paul was playing his 3rd game as a Clipper when they played Chicago. Rose was impressive, but I'm not going to base an entire years MVP standings on one night the first week of the season, a week after Paul was traded (and Paul didn't even play bad, Rose just tore up a new Clippers defense). Clippers have more offensive talent, but the Bulls have great chemistry, defense and coaching.
> 
> Paul has scored less than Rose, but a lot more efficiently. He has clearly been better than Rose in every other way. Clippers are 2nd in their conference too.
> 
> I guess we'll see what happens going forward.


And I'm not going to throw out MVP considerations for a week of impressive play.

I'm not as impressed with Paul's efficiency because he's not even the first option on his team. Rose does not have the luxary of playing off of other really talented offensive players.

Rose is a much better scorer. And I'm not really getting the "clearly better than Rose in every other way" part of your post. They're equal as rebounders, (Rose has a .1 edge) and Derrick has absolutely played better defense to this point. I don't give a damn about how many steals CP3 gets, he's consistently abused by bigger guards due to his size and is not a huge factor on that side of the court.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

None of that is true. Which big guard was that? I have not seen anyone have a big scoring game on Paul since he got himself into shape. I saw the Clippers put him on Kobe when they needed to win the game though. Kobe had to throw an elbow because he couldn't get his shot off and got an offensive foul didn't he? If you actually watched the Clippers you'd see that Paul is often guarding opposing two's because the other Clipper guards aren't able to.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Diable said:


> None of that is true. Which big guard was that? I have not seen anyone have a big scoring game on Paul since he got himself into shape. I saw the Clippers put him on Kobe when they needed to win the game though. Kobe had to throw an elbow because he couldn't get his shot off and got an offensive foul didn't he? If you actually watched the Clippers you'd see that Paul is often guarding opposing two's because the other Clipper guards aren't able to.


Deron Williams is a big guard and he outplays Paul every single time they play. Rose destroyed him earlier in the year. Hell, even Billups crushed him over the entire playoff series when he bounced Chris' ass out of the playoffs in the first round. He's not a good defensive player.

He is a great game manager, falicitator, and a second option on offense. But he's not the MVP so far. Not even close.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

You really need help. All of that is a bunch of crap which has little to no basis in fact. In fact it is completely disingenuous because you know that it is untrue.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Diable said:


> You really need help. All of that is a bunch of crap which has little to no basis in fact. In fact it is completely disingenuous because you know that it is untrue.


Every single part of my post is true. CP3 is a top 6-7 player, but he's not the MVP.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

VanillaPrice said:


> Every single part of my post is true. CP3 is a top 6-7 player, but he's not the MVP.


Ummm why can't dude be MVP? He was basically 1a / 1b selection in 2008 as MVP, and basically as a PG had a better MVP season than Steve Nash who won in consecutive seasons.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Derrick Rose is the MVP of the league so far, leading his Chicago Bulls team to the best record in the East, with his second best player in Deng missing a substantial amount of games.


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## NYK All Day (Feb 4, 2012)

Even though I'm not a Lakers fan I have to go with Kobe because he is leading the league in scoring but we all know it's not just about the points. Also I think KD has a chance at his first (of many) MVP awards, we'll see.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

NYK All Day said:


> Even though I'm not a Lakers fan I have to go with Kobe because he is leading the league in scoring but we all know it's not just about the points. Also I think KD has a chance at his first (of many) MVP awards, we'll see.


You do realize you actually contradicted yourself in the SAME sentence, right?


----------



## NYK All Day (Feb 4, 2012)

Samurai Swish said:


> You do realize you actually contradicted yourself in the SAME sentence, right?


Yes, yes i do


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Bron won't be denied


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Dwight > Paul


----------



## Charliethefrug (Feb 7, 2012)

Right now, there's no denying LeBron is the best in the game with his team in the lead pack.
Even playing with 2 star players, his stats were suppose to drop, but they stays the same and even increased, with arguably his best year to date. 55% FG is impressive.

Durant is clearly in 2nd and can only win it if LeBron starts to fade.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I'd be surprised if anyone but LeBron won it at this point. Nobody else really deserves it at this point.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

I have Durant as my MVP so far, Rose is 2nd. I can only see Rose winning over Durant if the Bulls have a better record by about 5 games over the Thunder.


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## rayz789 (Oct 30, 2008)

Luke said:


> I'd be surprised if anyone but LeBron won it at this point. Nobody else really deserves it at this point.


What? lol i'm a big lebron fan but if thers one person not name lebron that deserves to win this year mvp its clearly durant who leads his team to a 20-6 record. Durant points pergame is barely down from last year but his fg percentege, his rebounds pergame, blocks pergame are better then last year.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Dwight Howard is doing the most w the least... Out of principle, the man should have at least 1 vote. Clearly he is the clear cut candidate at the moment.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Dwight Howard is supposed to get the MVP because no one else quit?


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## dwadeisbetta (Feb 11, 2012)

If the Thunder end up with the best record in the league, Kevin Durant will win it. If not, LeBron, he's shooting an unbelievable percentage for a swingman and he's getting to the line nearly 10 times a game. He's shooting less now and scoring more while taking less threes -- efficiency at it's finest.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Lebron and Durant are clearly the top 2 candidates. It is very hard to put one over the other at this point in time. 

The Thunder have been a machine, they are going to win the West with Durant as their best player and having a great season; maybe his best yet overall.

Lebron has slightly better numbers, and Wade being injured has probably helped the argument for him winning it. But, Miami will be hard pressed to win their conference. Also, MVP voters may have a bias towards Durant, since he's never won it before and didn't jet his team to play with two other all-stars. Not saying that's a legit reason, just that's how it is.

Rose is not a top candidate this year since he's deferring more to the Bulls' depth while suffering through some injuries.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

> NOT A JOKE: @Sportsbook_com just posted odds on Jeremy Lin to win the NBA MVP at 100/1. Say a $250 bet has already come in.


https://twitter.com/#!/darrenrovell


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I'd need longer odds than that. I would be willing to cover that 250$ bet myself.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

So far LeFail Shames has been MVP. Once again ... of the regular season.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Samurai Swish said:


> So far LeFail Shames has been MVP. Once again ... of the regular season.


Good, regular season has more games that Post-Season anyway.

And the only players that have rings on the list are Wade and Kobe....What nicknames do you have for the other "failures" ?


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The way I understand it the MVP is a regular season award, so any irrational hatred Matrix has for Lebron has nothing to do with this thread. They give you a ring for winning a title. If you lose you get a bunch of morons saying stupid shit about you, but then what else can a moron do?

If you can't talk about basketball here you're already admitting that your shit is weak.


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Samurai Swish said:


> So far LeFail Shames has been MVP. Once again ... of the regular season.


That's very creative. :sigh:

And yes, 28/8/7 on 54% is clearly running away with it.


----------



## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

doctordrizzay said:


> Good, regular season has more games that Post-Season anyway.
> 
> And the only players that have rings on the list are Wade and Kobe....What nicknames do you have for the other "failures" ?


Don't sit here and pretend like the regular season is as important as the postseason. That's a stupid argument.

But, the MVP is a regular season award and James is far and away the best regular season preformer we've seen since Jordan. He should win it.


----------



## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

doctordrizzay said:


> Good, regular season has more games that Post-Season anyway.


Classic philosophy of a loser. Playoffs / Finals is the real deal, less games, but SIGNICANTLY more important. Competition and pressure is at its highest. It's also where LeBron crumbles under the limelight.

Fitting. As I said, king of the regular season. LeFail Shames when it matters most. Front runner, and a mental midget.



doctordrizzay said:


> And the only players that have rings on the list are Wade and Kobe....What nicknames do you have for the other "failures" ?


They don't bring the massive failure on themselves by calling themselves "chosen one", or "witness" greatness. And then in true embarrassing fashion, self destruct when pressure is at its highest for the world to see. 

None of those other players besides Wade and Kobe have the talent LeBron has so the expectations aren't the same. They also don't willingly have to join another Alpha Dog's team in order to win, have overwhelming talent on their team AND STILL LOSE. 

What a clown.


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Samurai Swish said:


> Classic philosophy of a loser. Playoffs / Finals is the real deal, less games, but SIGNICANTLY more important. Competition and pressure is at its highest. It's also where LeBron crumbles under the limelight.
> 
> Fitting. As I said, king of the regular season. LeFail Shames when it matters most. Front runner, and a mental midget.
> 
> ...


Lebron was fantastic in last years playoffs until the finals what are you talking about? lol. Blinded by hate.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Samurai Swish said:


> Classic philosophy of a loser. Playoffs / Finals is the real deal, less games, but SIGNICANTLY more important. Competition and pressure is at its highest. It's also where LeBron crumbles under the limelight.
> 
> Fitting. As I said, king of the regular season. LeFail Shames when it matters most. Front runner, and a mental midget.
> 
> ...


----------



## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

doctordrizzay said:


>


...


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Lebron's run through his conference was the most impressive run of a perimeter player that I'd seen since Kobe in '08. He was ****ing nuts. I'm known around these parts to dislike James and even I was awestruck by his play against the Celtics and especially the Bulls.

He was terrible in the finals though. Sort of like Kobe in '08, but atleast Bryant went down swinging and was still the best player on the floor.

It's no biggie though, I'm sure 'Bron will get his shit together eventually, and by the looks of him this year, it's probably going to happen very, very soon.

Edit: and he's still running away with the MVP. Durant is a faint blimp on his radar but outside of KD literally no one is in the same stratosphere.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Luke said:


> Lebron's run through his conference was the most impressive run of a perimeter player that I'd seen since Kobe in '08. He was ****ing nuts. I'm known around these parts to dislike James and even I was awestruck by his play against the Celtics and especially the Bulls.
> 
> He was terrible in the finals though. Sort of like Kobe in '08, but atleast Bryant went down swinging and was still the best player on the floor.
> 
> ...


Tried to rep, you must of changed your name. But thanks for your honesty. Yes he did fall flat in the finals, but up until then he beasted the Celtics and Bulls.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

BlackNRed said:


> Lebron was fantastic in last years playoffs until the finals what are you talking about? lol. Blinded by hate.


Blinded by homer-ism ... Mr. South Florida, much?

He was "great"? Umm, he was good enough in the playoffs last season but he's had much better playoffs, ones that would actually be considered "great." 

Specifically the ENTIRE 2009 playoffs and 2010 v.s. the Bulls runs before his mental breakdown v.s. the Celtics.

Those were actual GREAT series. 2009 playoffs was the best performance from a player in the playoffs since 2000 - 2002 Shaq.

You act like the Finals isn't super important. He failed MASSIVELY when he finally had a chance to win a ring.

"not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7"

"it's gonna be easy"

Dude was role player status in every game post the 2nd game. That's pathetic display. And he now has virtually the two worst showings ever for a Finals performance from a mega superstar of all-time.

As I said, a clown. He can have his regular season MVP, I said so far he clearly deserves it. But I'm not impressed. Do it in the Finals and get you're ring, change his loser reputation.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

BlackNRed said:


> Tried to rep, you must of changed your name. But thanks for your honesty. Yes he did fall flat in the finals, but up until then he beasted the Celtics and Bulls.


Hahaha you don't remember VanillaPrice after last season's back and forths? I'm offended.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Luke said:


> Hahaha you don't remember VanillaPrice after last season's back and forths? I'm offended.


lol I know you, just didn't know you changed your name.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Samurai Swish said:


> Blinded by homer-ism ... Mr. South Florida, much?
> 
> He was "great"? Umm, he was good enough in the playoffs last season but he's had much better playoffs, ones that would actually be considered "great."
> 
> ...


People like you are whats wrong with the world. Instead of hating on a guy who makes mistakes in the past, (because you know Lebron is a human being too) We should all enjoy the Talent Lebron brings because there will never be anyone like him again, Who else can guard a PG and C in the same game and play both positions on offence too. He is by far the best basketball player in the world, He is posting up the best PER of All-Time beating Jordan and doing it all in a season so compact with very little rest.

yes we know Lebron made some mistake whoopdey ****ing do. Jordan didnt get a ring till 28 and we all know what happened after that. 

So instead of being a complete ****ing idiot, why not take the time and enjoy the talent Lebron bring.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Someone's bitter.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The MVP will come down to Rose, Durant, or James. My money is on Rose going back to back, otherwise I would like to see Durant get it.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

KD sure as hell played like the MVP tonight. Dude was unreal down the stretch.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

Durant just upped the ante tonight. Let's see if LeBron will go all in.


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## Mouche (Feb 25, 2012)

i think this will be the year of Lebron James, unfortunately


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

1. LeBron 

2. Durant







Everyone else


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Yet Wade is second in PER, and is a much better defender than Durant. I just got back from the Blazers vs Heat game, and I can tell you Wade was a defensive juggernaut, he breaks up more plays than statistics can measure. The guy get's so many deflections off passes, rebounds, his man to man defense is elite. I think Wade is getting slept on this year.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Wade has missed a third of the games played and his team pretty much looked better without him. That's without going into the fact that he is indubitably the second best player on his team. Unless Lebron misses the rest of the year Wade is getting zero consideration for the MVP and quite correctly so. If Lebron were gone it would almost certainly demonstrate that he's more valuable than Wade regardless.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Diable said:


> Wade has missed a third of the games played and his team pretty much looked better without him. That's without going into the fact that he is indubitably the second best player on his team. Unless Lebron misses the rest of the year Wade is getting zero consideration for the MVP and quite correctly so. If Lebron were gone it would almost certainly demonstrate that he's more valuable than Wade regardless.


Wade is a proven elite player, him missing games, is not why he's putting up great statistical numbers. He's been doing it his entire career. LeBron is having a great year. Did you see me say otherwise ? Not sure why you point out LeBron's season. I think everyone here understands he's having a brilliant season. 

Also let's not try and slight Wade because the Heat played well when he was injured. They still have an elite group around James with another All Star playing next to him the entire time with Chris Bosh.

Should we be so silly like yourself and talk about how well the Bulls played when Rose was out of the line up due to injuries this season. The Bulls stepped up with out Rose in the line up, just like the Heat stepped up with out Wade, good teams do that. 

And Wade is an elite defender, IMO the best on the Heat. I saw him and James from row F lower bowl of the Rose Garden tonight, and Wade was by far the juggernaut on defense. Breaking up so many plays, and keeping the ball alive for his teammates to gather off the board to start a fast break, for a small shooting guard, he' plays above and beyond his physical size and stature. considering he's 6' 4" it's a marvel, it's outright astonishing how good he is defensively against guys who are 6'6" and above. 

My point still stands, Wade is the best defender out of the group, has the second best per in the NBA. And is getting slept on.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

LeBron's winning MVP but again, it won't matter if he doesn't win a ring. Nobody cares about LeBron in the regular season anymore.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

I think people are mad that D-Wade still > D-Rose.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Diable said:


> his team pretty much looked better without him.


I'm guessing you haven't watched the last 9 games? Where we've been unstoppable (albeit against some weak teams) mostly due to Wade's fantastic play.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Diable said:


> Wade has missed a third of the games played and his team pretty much looked better without him. That's without going into the fact that he is indubitably the second best player on his team. Unless Lebron misses the rest of the year Wade is getting zero consideration for the MVP and quite correctly so. If Lebron were gone it would almost certainly demonstrate that he's more valuable than Wade regardless.


LoLo. Do you subconsciously think you are going to drive a wedge between Lebron and Wade from your posts or something?

If you think Rose has a claim to MVP (which he most certainly doesn't) then you'd have to say the same exact thing about Wade. 

By the way, the Heat had a good record with Wade out cause Wade wasn't Wade with his foot injury. The Heat have now rolled off 9 straight wins by double digits.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Wade is a really good defender, especially in this system, but LeBron is the backbone of their defense. Wade's value lies in his ability to create shots for himself, which makes him a better option down the stretch of games than LeBron. Otherwise, he is like LeBron's little brother. He is really good at everything, but LeBron is just a little better at all of those things. 

I think you could argue Wade has been the 2nd best player this year, but his MVP chances are zero because the 1st best player this year is on his team. Durant is the 2nd or 3rd best player this year, leading the best team in the west. Those criteria give him a much better chance than Wade.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Wade's chance are 0 because he has a player better than him on the team, its simple. Its hard to because Last night in portland he was amazing but lebron was God-Like. Ive never seen such good defense in my life when Lebron guarded all positions. 38 points 11 boards 6 assists 5 steals 0 Turnovers. SMH


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I don't see how anyone could say that Wade is the second best player going right now. He's played at this level for all of like ten games. If it's that easy to jump around then Dirk shouldn't be top ten and Lin should have been on the all star team, correct?

And that's not me trying to discredit Dwyane, I've always prefered him to LeBron, but he's not as good as James. Period.

There also really isn't anything separating Rose and Wade when they're both fully healthy... But Heat stans and Bulls fanboys would never admit this.

Durant is quite literally the only blimp on LeBron's radar as of now. Nobody else has a reasonable case.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Wade's chance are 0 because he has a player better than him on the team, its simple. Its hard to because Last night in portland he was amazing but lebron was God-Like. Ive never seen such good defense in my life when Lebron guarded all positions. 38 points 11 boards 6 assists 5 steals 0 Turnovers. SMH


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

RollWithEm said:


> If the Clippers finish within 5 games of the Thunder in the standings, it's CP3's award to lose. He will be credited with the turn around.


With the season Lebron is having it will be hard for Chris Paul to win the MVP. The Heat would be an average team without Lebron. I think Lebron is that good.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

If OKC ends up with the first or second best record in the NBA. I believe Kevin Durant should win the MVP.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Lebron is clearly the best player in the league. The voters will just have to decide if that makes him "most valuable".


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

KD is starting to narrow the gap, though.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

LeBron looks like he's trying to send a message to Kevin Durant and all of the voters. Head to head matchup with his only rival for the MVP and he's really outplaying him (only halftime right now).


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I don't think he's "really" outplaying him tonight at all. He's outplaying him but not by as big a margin as you're making it seem. And definitely not by as a big a margin as Durant outplayed LeBron the last time they met in Oklahoma City.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

I did post that at halftime (almost an hour ago), Kevin Durant has came out and played much better in the second half. But you do realize he has 9 turnovers right now, right? LeBron has only 1? And LeBron already has double digit assists, Durant only has 3? I mean, he's out scoring him, he's playing great defense, he's finding his teammates better, and LeBron already has 4 steals (Durant with 0).

LeBron is playing like he's the clear cut MVP in this game.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Basel said:


> I don't think he's "really" outplaying him tonight at all. He's outplaying him but not by as big a margin as you're making it seem. And definitely not by as a big a margin as Durant outplayed LeBron the last time they met in Oklahoma City.


Lebron absolutely annilated Durant tonight causing him to commit a carrer high 9 turnovers. Lebron led him in every category expect turnovers LOL


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I don't really see what the big deal is. All last night said to me was that the Heat are a very good home team. KD played well (albiet below his standards) and LBJ played very well. The discrepancy in this game was not nearly as large as it was when the two teams played in OKC a few weeks ago.

I don't really see how the Heat are going to win the title if they don't have homecourt.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

You don't see what the big deal is? It's a head to head matchup against the only two real MVP candidates (guarded eachother eve) and LeBron clearly outshone Durant last night. It's relevant now more than ever because not only was LeBron coming off a stretch where he wasn't playing that well (he bonked his head pretty good, and even though they said he had no concussion, he was only scoring 17 a night on 40%-ish from the field for a 4 game stretch), but Durant had been really generating a lot of discussion for himself as the MVP.

There is still a lot of basketball to be played, but LeBron James did a lot for himself in terms of winning another MVP last night.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

BlakeJesus said:


> You don't see what the big deal is? It's a head to head matchup against the only two real MVP candidates (guarded eachother eve) and LeBron clearly outshone Durant last night. It's relevant now more than ever because not only was LeBron coming off a stretch where he wasn't playing that well (he bonked his head pretty good, and even though they said he had no concussion, he was only scoring 17 a night on 40%-ish from the field for a 4 game stretch), but Durant had been really generating a lot of discussion for himself as the MVP.
> 
> There is still a lot of basketball to be played, but LeBron James did a lot for himself in terms of winning another MVP last night.


If by "did a lot for himself in terms of winning another MVP last night" you mean that he made up for the OKC game in which Durant clearly outplayed him then sure, that's fair.

People are coming in here acting like KD laid an egg. Yes, he turned the ball over way too much, it happens. But he still scored 30 points on 50% shooting and barely lost a road game in Miami.

LeBron is still the frontrunner, though.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Bron looked pretty pedestrian tonight, as the Heat lost at home to the Grizzlies. 

The Heat and LBJ second half has been subpar compared to the first half of the season.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Also somebody needs to say something for the Spurs. Second best record in the NBA right now. Incredible.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Also somebody needs to say something for the Spurs. Second best record in the NBA right now. Incredible.


Popovich for Coach of the Year, assuming Thibodeau doesn't win it (I put my money on Pops b/c Thibs won last year).


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

23AJ said:


> Bron looked pretty pedestrian tonight, as the Heat lost at home to the Grizzlies.
> 
> The Heat and LBJ second half has been subpar compared to the first half of the season.


nah he destroyed thunder and philli.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

doctordrizzay said:


> nah he destroyed thunder and philli.


And Memphis.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

yodurk said:


> Popovich for Coach of the Year, assuming Thibodeau doesn't win it (I put my money on Pops b/c Thibs won last year).


Good point, Pop should be coach of the year, the Spurs are now in first place in the western conference.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Luke said:


> And Memphis.


eh he played okay...best on the team that game...but Heat didnt get the win though...so i wouldnt say he destroyed them like Thunder the Elite team.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Heat still have to play the Bulls, Knicks, and Celtics. With the Celtics, and Knicks game being on the road. The Heat have fallen back into 4th place in the standings, with the Lakers only being three games back behind them. The Heat need to close out strong, but I just dont see it happening. It's interesting how this team and the players have sunk post all star break. From being head and shoulders top of the league to dropping down to the 4th best record possibly fifth best record in the league, and all around sub par play by all the players. 

At this point, I have to say the MVP for this year will most likely be Kevin Durant.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

23AJ said:


> Heat still have to play the Bulls, Knicks, and Celtics. With the Celtics, and Knicks game being on the road. The Heat have fallen back into 4th place in the standings, with the Lakers only being three games back behind them. The Heat need to close out strong, but I just dont see it happening. It's interesting how this team and the players have sunk post all star break. From being head and shoulders top of the league to dropping down to the 4th best record possibly fifth best record in the league, and all around sub par play by all the players.
> 
> At this point, I have to say the MVP for this year will most likely be Kevin Durant.


Its Lebron and its not even close. Thunder themselves have lost 4 or there last 6...and havent been that much better than Miami since all-star break. And Lebron is just flat out is having a better season. Look up PER if you know what it means you'll see where Lebron is compared to the rest of the league.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I remember when I used a flawed offensive statistic as my end all.

LeBron should win it though.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Thunder have struggled too lately, including a loss to Miami with LBJ outplaying Durant pretty clearly. I think if Durant had outplayed him in both matchups, and Thunder hadn't struggled lately too (like Miami), Durant would have a strong case. 

It's still LBJ, just based on how far ahead he was early on and nobody has really stepped up to take it.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

It's not like it would be a travesty if Durant stole it though.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

National media starting to turn away from LeBron being the clear cut choice for MVP. Interesting write up about the potential top seven teams to win the chip this year. The following quote is by Marc Stein, an article that is on ESPN.com right now. 



> I've been saying for a while that casting my MVP vote for LeBron, no matter how individually spectacular he's been, just doesn't feel right when LeBron's team hasn't lived up to expectations and is poised to lose the conference race even though Derrick Rose has missed a third of the season. How valuable is that statistical brilliance when the Heat are backsliding?
> 
> Only now it seems smarter to say, after Miami lost its umpteenth big road game in the season's second half, that the MVP race should be the least of LeBron's worries right now.


http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-120413-14/weekend-dime-title-contenders-flaws-show


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Durant will be your MVP this year. I just don't see Miami winning any big road games, and I have a feeling, the Heat will start resting their big three, to get ready for the playoffs, since the top seed on the conference is going to the Bulls.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Kevin Durant making noise. Durant drops 43 points as Thunder roll out another win.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Should be LeBron, but if Durant has more signature performances he'll sway the voters. 

Either way I mean...when the best player is having a great season there shouldn't be a debate. I think dominant players should be able to say I have 5-6 MVPs, but lately it's not like that. It's like a club almost..LeBron won't get his just due...Shaq didn't Kobe didn't...Duncan didn't even really.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Yeah. Shaquille, Timmy, and Kobe should all have 3(+) to their names.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Kevin Durant should be the frontrunner.


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## M.V.W. (Apr 2, 2011)

Does anyone think Durant could sweep the MVP awards this season?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

It will be really interesting to see the results. At this point, with LeBron coasting and Durant having a couple really good performances lately, it's become very close. Team records are the same.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Lebron will win in a landslide.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

RollWithEm said:


> Lebron *should* win in a landslide.


Fixed. LeBron is anchored by expectations/image, and Durant is aided by his current golden boy status. Don't underestimate that.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

M.V.W. said:


> Does anyone think Durant could sweep the MVP awards this season?


He has no chance to even come close to winning.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

doctordrizzay said:


> He has no chance to even come close to winning.


How can you say that with a straight face. 

Statistically speaking, Lebron and Durant are having remarkably close seasons. They are within centimeters of each other in terms of TS% (more important than FG%), points, rebounds, steals, blocks, and turnovers. Their teams have virtually identical records among the top 3-4 teams in the league, and they are both the best player on their teams. Obviously Lebron is a better playmaker/passer, but Durant is a better shooter/more range and spaces the floor better. Both are unique abilities and carry significant value.

Lebron is clearly the better defender, but there is little past evidence to suggest how much defensive ability really plays into MVP voting. That is why there are all-D teams, and Lebron will easily get all-D 1st team. MVP correlates more with offensive ability by far.

It is definitely 2-man race and should be very close voting outcome. As others say, Durant will get plenty of votes just by being a league favorite and the fact he hasn't won the award before. I am not advocating what is the right thing here, just that is the way things are. Don't shoot the messenger.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

yodurk said:


> How can you say that with a straight face.
> 
> Statistically speaking, Lebron and Durant are having remarkably close seasons. They are within centimeters of each other in terms of TS% (more important than FG%), points, rebounds, steals, blocks, and turnovers. Their teams have virtually identical records among the top 3-4 teams in the league, and they are both the best player on their teams. Obviously Lebron is a better playmaker/passer, but Durant is a better shooter/more range and spaces the floor better. Both are unique abilities and carry significant value.
> 
> ...


Defense is just as important than offense and when your clearly the better defender like you said. That's a HUGE leg up, especially when he as guarded every position this year. Also Lebron as Led the team to 13-1 without D-Wade and is putting up one of the best PER of all time. Yeah this award isnt even close, Lebron has it by a mile. I don't know how anyone can say otherwise with a straight face. Seriously...is it even a question?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

You are arguing what "should be", and not "what is". You are entitled to think what you want about how poorly MVP voting is conducted. However don't be surprised when Durant gathers a very noticeable percentage of the MVP votes, and quite possibly wins it. To say Durant "has no chance of winning" is just inaccurate. He has a very good chance of winning in fact.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Today Durant secures Lebron's MVP win. What a bad game for him and westbrook.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Yup. Durant just helped LeBron win MVP.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Bad game for Durant to lay an egg. National TV against the Lakers the last few days of the season. 

LeBron has it in the bag.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

It's reasonable to expect that Paul will finish second at this point. The only reason that he's not going to get a lot more consideration is the way that the MVP has somehow become the best player with a great team around him.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Diable said:


> It's reasonable to expect that Paul will finish second at this point. The only reason that he's not going to get a lot more consideration is the way that the MVP has somehow become the best player with a great team around him.


Paul won't finish in the top 3.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Paul will finish at worst 3rd in the voting, IMO.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Paul will/should finish 3rd. It's been a two man race for quite some time, but Paul has garnered some attention.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Durant pretty much blew it the other night against the Lakers, looks like it's LeBron's turn. Again.

Oh well, he deserves it. Hell of a season.


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## AussieThriller (Apr 25, 2012)

KING JAMES.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

When does Lebron get his MVP? do they announce it in the 2nd round? I almost forgot how that goes because D.Rose won it last year so I wasn't paying attention...And many players have won MVP on two different teams? Shit is unreal


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Yeah, they announce it in the second round.

Off the top of my head I can think of Moses, Kareem, and Wilt that won it on multiple teams.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Luke said:


> Yeah, they announce it in the second round.
> 
> Off the top of my head I can think of Moses, Kareem, and Wilt that won it on multiple teams.


I knew Moses...Kareem bucks and lakers?


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Rose was named MVP on May 3rd last year.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Adam said:


> Rose was named MVP on May 3rd last year.


Did you look that up, or did you know it off the top of your head?


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## Quacktastic (May 1, 2012)

Diable said:


> It's reasonable to expect that Paul will finish second at this point. The only reason that he's not going to get a lot more consideration is the way that the MVP has somehow become the best player with a great team around him.


Rose had such a great team around him last year. :lol:


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## Quacktastic (May 1, 2012)

MVP should be during 2nd round.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Still dont understand how Kobe and Rose have more votes than DH. I know it's been obvious from a media perspective, but from a fan perspective as well this has become a frontrunners award. They really need to change the name.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Because Dwight Howard spent the entire year participating in a media circus instead of playing basketball. I've defended Dwight on nearly everything since he's been drafted, but pretending like he deserves positive recognition of any kind after the effort he put forth last season is a joke.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Quacktastic said:


> MVP should be during 2nd round.


Huh?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Luke said:


> Because Dwight Howard spent the entire year participating in a media circus instead of playing basketball. I've defended Dwight on nearly everything since he's been drafted, but pretending like he deserves positive recognition of any kind after the effort he put forth last season is a joke.


And yet he still has better production than Kobe & Rose despite not playing w any other all-stars. Let me know when we start recognizing players for production as opposed to who has the best story.


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## Gx (May 24, 2006)

PauloCatarino said:


> Huh?


It's announced during the 2nd round of the playoffs usually.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

We can unstick this now that LeBron has won.


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