# Southtown Paul: Skiles prepares for competitive camp



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

in a guest appearance in the "Beacon News" (ho boy)...



> CHICAGO — With preseason camp expected to be the most competitive in years, Bulls head coach Scott Skiles faces an enviable but difficult situation.
> 
> Not only does Skiles have to find the right combinations on the court, he has to develop positive team chemistry at the same time.
> 
> ...



http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/sports/2_2_AU22_BULLS_S10722.asp


it's gonna be a balancing act with the minutes this season. 

and the best news is it looks like Pargo is _Pargone_!

:angel:


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## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

We should have kept Chandler!


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

What was really so bad about Pargo?
He didn't have a massive contract, and as a 2nd/3rd string combo guard, he seemed a decent enough shooter.. Haven't seen him play all that often though, so I'm guessing he's either a black hole, or a defensive liability?

And the 8man rotation musta been obvious, but good to know noone's being given anything.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Bulls4Life said:


> We should have kept Chandler!


There is probably a new opening for Benny the Bull. They'd have to pay money for a bigger costume, though...


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## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

I wouldn't mind seeing Aaron Miles taking the last backcourt spot, he certainly looked good in the summer league games I saw, and he should be available at a very reasonable price.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

It's going to be difficult indeed. We are by far the deepest team in the league right now, and someone is bound to feel shorted on minutes at some point this season. 

Skiles surely deserves coach of the year if we win the central or get a top 3 seed. Every other coach is riding a superstar, while Skiles has the task of putting a 50 win team on the court with a huge rotation of good players but no all-stars. 

Glad Skiles understands his situation and is preparing for it. I have very little doubt in him as a coach. He knows what he is doing.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> in a guest appearance in the "Beacon News" (ho boy)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, that was informative. It would appear that moonlighting at the Beacon News hasn't yielded STP any better sources. Also, an 8 man rotation that certainly features Michael Sweetney is already in place? I hope not.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I think we'll actually have a 9 or 10 man rotation when/if Thabo and TT get their NBA legs. We can try to do what the Grizz were doing and the Mavs sometimes do and run swarms of fresh legs at other teams. Hopefully with more success than the Grizz. It'll be a balancing act for Skiles, but we have guys who hopefully aren't as likely to gripe about minutes. Plus, Skiles has always been willing to throw anybody out there at any moment. Even the Polish Rifle, for cripes sake.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jbulls said:


> Well, that was informative. It would appear that moonlighting at the Beacon News hasn't yielded STP any better sources. Also, *an 8 man rotation that certainly features Michael Sweetney is already in place*? I hope not.


Another way to phrase it: "an 8 man rotation that doesn't feature Tyrus Thomas"


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

Sweetney is a vital piece of this thing next year, people best prepare for that. If he continues to play the best ball of his career (and yea even if thats not saying a ton).... he's going to make our offense complete - in the sense that we make a defense prepare for all facets of an offense. when's he's not in there, we'll live and die by jumpshooting and the occasional perimeter guy slashing.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Is Sweetney working out at the Berto? It sounded implied with including him in the 8 man rotation.

And I'd be surprised if Pargo wasn't on our roster next year. I'd say we'll probaly bring both him and Schenscher back.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

I like Pargo. He has done a fine job w/ his role. It's going to be Jannero or Livingston for the last guard spot if Pargo returns to the Bulls. 

I hope to see Drago Pasalic invited to training camp, I would love to have big man that can nail a 3 point shot and give us 6 fouls on defense.


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

DengNabbit said:


> Sweetney is a vital piece of this thing next year, people best prepare for that. If he continues to play the best ball of his career (and yea even if thats not saying a ton).... he's going to make our offense complete - in the sense that we make a defense prepare for all facets of an offense. when's he's not in there, we'll live and die by jumpshooting and the occasional perimeter guy slashing.


There is no other source of post points on this roster. I don't think Sweetney is an all-star, but what he can do, we need. Bad.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DengNabbit said:


> Sweetney is a vital piece of this thing next year, people best prepare for that. If he continues to play the best ball of his career (and yea even if thats not saying a ton).... he's going to make our offense complete - in the sense that we make a defense prepare for all facets of an offense. when's he's not in there, we'll live and die by jumpshooting and the occasional perimeter guy slashing.





Philomath said:


> There is no other source of post points on this roster. I don't think Sweetney is an all-star, but what he can do, we need. Bad.



I agree with both of those posts, and I am praying Sweets comes to camp gunning for bear, in the best shape of his life and ready for a career season. I'm hoping. I'm wishing. Pleeeeaaase.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Another way to phrase it: "an 8 man rotation that doesn't feature Tyrus Thomas"


and what knowledgeable entity would "phrase it" this way??

minutes are earned; that's skiles' agenda, as it has always been and should be. that's been the mantra of this administration, players that earn their status; so i'd be hard pressed to imagine what bull supporter might "phrase it" like the abovementioned quote without wholly injecting skepticism toward the approach the bull takes to develop their roster?


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

DengNabbit said:


> Sweetney is a vital piece of this thing next year, people best prepare for that. *If he continues to play the best ball of his career *(and yea even if thats not saying a ton).... he's going to make our offense complete - in the sense that we make a defense prepare for all facets of an offense. when's he's not in there, we'll live and die by jumpshooting and the occasional perimeter guy slashing.


I agree with the sentiment of your post and nothing would make me happier . But since when has he played the best ball of his career? And if what we had as the best ball of his career with us last season then thanks a bunch but no thanks

I have always been a Sweetney advocate and have followed him since Georgetown. 

He really pissed me off last season however . I could understand how he got lost in New York but he came to a team like ours that needed him and where he had it all laid out on a platter for him ( maybe that was the problem ) and he just couldn't get it together 

True to prior form in New York ..he showed some promise at the start of a season and seemed destined to progress ( if he could get his conditioning under control ) and as the season wore on he got fatter , slower and picked up foul rates at a greater rate of knots than the start of a season . He then kind of made a mild comeback toward the end of the season turning in a series of patchy, inconsistent performances

He has a reputation for being a nice guy and gee that's nice news. But there is no excuse , particularly for the conditioning standard that has been set for others , for Mike Sweetney not to be in optimal conditioning which leads to lazy defensive options ( thereby picking up the fouls that he does ) and even slow offensive moves which lead to him getting his shot stuffed

This last point is particularly important. He is a *very* talented post player ..maybe one of the most natural post talents in the league. He has patience , a wide body , good body control , and he can dance with those feet to beat his defender. He has a high skillset - which is why I think he gets a bit of a pass mark and wasn't bludgeoned as much by Skiles last year .

I wonder what his confidence and his self belief is like though- whether he knows he good he could be 

But whatever y'know ? He is supposed to be a professional and part of that commitment is that he is supposed to be properly conditioned . So regardless of his skillset or whether he has self belief issues or whether Skiles way of communicating with him is to ignore him and leave him at the end of the bench - waiting for him to figure it out - I think he is what he is by now . Kind of like other prodigious talents that are a few years into their career .. I mean Darius Miles, Tyson Chandler , Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford - players like this . We've already seen their best - who they are and what their place on an NBA roster is 

Waiting for the light to go off leaves you, as a fan, in the dark

This is pretty much the fate I have come to expect of Mike Sweetney

And as much as we need what he can bring I don't expect to see it because I think the dye is cast and the reality will be a repeat of seasons past 

I'd really like to be wrong on this one though


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

BULLHITTER said:


> and what knowledgeable entity would "phrase it" this way??
> 
> minutes are earned; that's skiles' agenda, as it has always been and should be. that's been the mantra of this administration, players that earn their status; so i'd be hard pressed to imagine what bull supporter might "phrase it" like the abovementioned quote without wholly injecting skepticism toward the approach the bull takes to develop their roster?


Do you find it somewhat surprising that our #2 pick (turned into #4) isn't in the rotation?


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> Do you find it somewhat surprising that our #2 pick (turned into #4) isn't in the rotation?


Championships are not won in July nor are rotations set in July.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

If TT doesn't get on the court, I'll be quite unhappy.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

remlover said:


> Championships are not won in July nor are rotations set in July.


Oh, contraire, mon amis...Jordan used to work out intensely in the summer, prepping himself physically for the grueling season to come. That's the thing I don't get about lazy players: the very best didn't get that way without a little bit of elbow grease.


Ergo: Failing to prepare is preparation for failure.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

remlover said:


> Championships are not won in July nor are rotations set in July.


Be definition, if you are a rookie and you don't make the initial rotation, you aren't an immediate impact player.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Wait, you know what's sick?

What if Sweetney has shed some serious weight and can now play defense in a way that better conditioning would allow him to do?

What if he truly continues to be a reliable beast? I know Skiles likes to use him the way he used Curry, the first few possessions to the post to get some "easy" points and force teams to eat his early gambit to open up the bulk of the game, the jump shot.

What if Skiles goes to him in the first three, four offensive sets and Sweetney starts destroying guys and scoring a reliable 6-8 points every first quarter?

What do we do? What if he keeps Tyrus AND PJ Brown off the court?

I don't think it's likely, but we can't forget that he's in the mix, and a substantial player that won't be automatically relegated to "backup center" or "third-string PF" status so easily. It IS his contract year, after all.


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

sweetney has the ability to be our mvp.
pushing our team over the top, may very well be decided by the size of his girth

I think that should be the new marketing slogan.

"the girth shall lead us to the promised land"


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Do you find it somewhat surprising that our #2 pick (turned into #4) isn't in the rotation?


truth be told, not in the least; the bull doesn't need him to be GREAT right out of the box. the team is somewhat settled now; ben and p.j will have a settling effect on all the regulars, imo. however TT will go through an adjustment period like ALL rookies do. the key thing to recognize is WHEN does the light go on, and he figures out how hard he needs to play in practice to be effective, and thence find his way onto the court. 

summer league was simply a showcase for his athleticism;training camp will be where he can find a niche inside an already set core of 7-8 guys who are also going to be competing for minutes.

i look at it as simply a matter of time; it's not important that he attempt to blow everybody away early; its more important that WHENEVER he sets foot between the lines, he makes an impact.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Do you find it somewhat surprising that our #2 pick (turned into #4) isn't in the rotation?


There is no rotation. This is total speculation on STP's part. As far as we know Sweetney and Thomas have never even been on the floor together. If Thomas is behind Sweetney when the season starts I'll be irked. As of now, this appears to be idle speculation. Idle speculation in the "Beacon News". I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

Skiles DNP'd Sweetney a ton last year and was glowing in his praise of Thomas and Sefolosha at the end of the summer league. There's no reason to believe that he's got them penciled in behind the likes of Michael Sweetney.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jbulls said:


> There is no rotation. This is total speculation on STP's part. As far as we know Sweetney and Thomas have never even been on the floor together. If Thomas is behind Sweetney when the season starts I'll be irked. As of now, this appears to be idle speculation. Idle speculation in the "Beacon News". I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
> 
> Skiles DNP'd Sweetney a ton last year and was glowing in his praise of Thomas and Sefolosha at the end of the summer league. There's no reason to believe that he's got them penciled in behind the likes of Michael Sweetney.


You say it's "idle speculation." I say it's this (From Mike McGraw's Answers):

*Krause was secretive, but he was accessible. Pax has gotten more secretive as time has passed, but he will usually fill you in on what’s happening off the record.

*That is to say, what STP wrote is the Bulls' current line of thinking as expressed to them off the record.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> You say it's "idle speculation." I say it's this (From Mike McGraw's Answers):
> 
> *Krause was secretive, but he was accessible. Pax has gotten more secretive as time has passed, but he will usually fill you in on what’s happening off the record.
> 
> *That is to say, what STP wrote is the Bulls' current line of thinking as expressed to them off the record.


If STP wrote what was told to him off the record, then it really wasn't off the record now, was it? Also, if this was truly expressed to him off the record as you suggest, then I'm thinkin STP won't be getting too many more off the record tidbits.

In other words, this is still your idle speculation.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

fl_flash said:


> If STP wrote what was told to him off the record, then it really wasn't off the record now, was it? Also, if this was truly expressed to him off the record as you suggest, then I'm thinkin STP won't be getting too many more off the record tidbits.
> 
> In other words, this is still your idle speculation.


Off the record means he can't QUOTE the source and nothing more. Pax, Skiles, and anyone else who talk off the record know what it means.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> Off the record means he can't QUOTE the source and nothing more. Pax, Skiles, and anyone else who talk off the record know what it means.


It means theres no recorder present.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

sloth said:


> It means theres no recorder present.


No, it means the person being interviewed or giving the information doesn't want to be cited as the source of the information.

In journalism, if you can't cite a source, it becomes unsubstantiated or rumor.

The most famous example of "off the record" source would be Deep Throat (Watergate). He refused to talk "on the record" so he could be quoted or cited as the source, but that didn't keep Woodward and Bernstein from finding other sources to validate the information and to cite as sources.

My point here is that STP and McGraw and other Bulls' beat writers aren't just writing stuff they make up out of thin air. They talk on and off the record with people in the organization. He cited/quoted Skiles directly. He may have an hour of audio tape or pages of notes he took when talking to Skiles - the bulk of it we don't know the contents of.

There's too much information in the article to be purely idle speculation, IMO. Why 8 man rotation and not 9? TT Not included in the rotation. Thabo isn't in the rotation, either. Schenser is likely to get a roster spot. Looks like Banks and Miles are competing for the final spot - meaning Pargo isn't coming back.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> You say it's "idle speculation." I say it's this (From Mike McGraw's Answers):
> 
> *Krause was secretive, but he was accessible. Pax has gotten more secretive as time has passed, but he will usually fill you in on what’s happening off the record.
> 
> *That is to say, what STP wrote is the Bulls' current line of thinking as expressed to them off the record.


Paxson isn't the one setting the rotation/minutes, so I don't see how that McGraw bit even applies to the topic.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> You say it's "idle speculation." I say it's this (From Mike McGraw's Answers):
> 
> *Krause was secretive, but he was accessible. Pax has gotten more secretive as time has passed, but he will usually fill you in on what’s happening off the record.
> 
> *That is to say, what STP wrote is the Bulls' current line of thinking as expressed to them off the record.


Possibly... I think their line of thinking will change as they get a good sense of what players can do.

Put differently, I have no doubt that even if they hae TT and Thabo penciled in to the rotation, if they stink it up in camp they'll find themselves on the bench. Generally speaking (I'm leaving aside the pure attitude conflicts) Skiles has given minutes to the guys that helped him win the most.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> You say it's "idle speculation." I say it's this (From Mike McGraw's Answers):
> 
> *Krause was secretive, but he was accessible. Pax has gotten more secretive as time has passed, but he will usually fill you in on what’s happening off the record.
> 
> *That is to say, what STP wrote is the Bulls' current line of thinking as expressed to them off the record.


I suppose that's possible. But Paxson has said ON the record multiple times that he thinks Thomas and Sefolosha will be able to contribute immediately, though he's not quite sure to what extent.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> Paxson isn't the one setting the rotation/minutes, so I don't see how that McGraw bit even applies to the topic.


It occurs to me that Skiles talks to reporters, too. Probably all the assistant coaches, too.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> It occurs to me that Skiles talks to reporters, too. Probably all the assistant coaches, too.


I would be shocked and disturbed if Skiles had decided on his rotation to start the season in July. That would idiotic. I'd be even more shocked if he was sharing it with Southtown Paul. Given that I don't think Skiles is an idiot, I don't put a whole lot of stock in this.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jbulls said:


> I would be shocked and disturbed if Skiles had decided on his rotation to start the season in July. That would idiotic. I'd be even more shocked if he was sharing it with Southtown Paul. Given that I don't think Skiles is an idiot, I don't put a whole lot of stock in this.


Where does anyone suggest Skiles has decided on his rotation to start the season in July?

The CURRENT line of thinking is the 8 man rotation STP said.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Where does anyone suggest Skiles has decided on his rotation to start the season in July?
> 
> The CURRENT line of thinking is the 8 man rotation STP said.


Well, given that we're not playing games right now, I'll worry about the rotation when the season rolls around. I still think it's extremely speculative to suggest that what STP wrote came from Paxson or Skiles. I think it's entirely possible that he's making assumptions.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jbulls said:


> Well, given that we're not playing games right now, I'll worry about the rotation when the season rolls around. I still think it's extremely speculative to suggest that what STP wrote came from Paxson or Skiles. I think it's entirely possible that he's making assumptions.


If Pax/Skiles were talking up Thomas or Thabo like ROY candidates, or even like they were going to be in the rotation, I'd expect that's what STP would be reporting.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I agree. But I also think that any GM and coach who were talking their rookies up at this point of the season, after summer league has ended, would just be adding undue pressure. 

DuBullz, everything we have heard and seen so far during summer league would hint that the Bulls plan on using Thabo Sefolosha next season. They played him at point, and he looked damn solid. Skiles commented as much before sending him home early with a phantom injury. He played like a vet because he is a vet. Why shouldn't we expect him to contribute next year? 

The exact same with Thomas but to a lesser extant. Hes not as refined, but clearly talented enough to win regular minutes and become a solid contributor. 

I just don't understand why you would throw everything we have seen from them out the window, because a third-string beat writer penned in a third-string paper one unintelligible sentence that hints that the Bulls' rookies will not be in the regular rotation.

Don't you think one legitimate Chicago paper, let alone national media, would have a story on this if it were true?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Thabo will play a ton next year. I expect some mistakes making the transition to the NBA but I also expect alot of great contributions from him also.

If Thomas puts on 15-20 lbs and retains his speed, he will be an absolute beast in the nba.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> If Pax/Skiles were talking up Thomas or Thabo like ROY candidates, or even like they were going to be in the rotation, I'd expect that's what STP would be reporting.


 One last thing. I don't think I've seen one person suggest that either of our two rookies have any chance at winning the rookie of the year. That just isn't going to happen with the Bulls's depth. But from everything we've heard and seen, sans this one almost-sentence in one almost-paper, I think its a safe to assume that they're both going to have a regular contributing role.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> One last thing. I don't think I've seen one person suggest that either of our two rookies have any chance at winning the rookie of the year. That just isn't going to happen with the Bulls's depth. But from everything we've heard and seen, sans this one almost-sentence in one almost-paper, I think its a safe to assume that they're both going to have a regular contributing role.


What? Paul Ladewski's column on suburbanchicagonews.com isn't where you get all the inside stuff on the Bulls?


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> It occurs to me that Skiles talks to reporters, too. Probably all the assistant coaches, too.


Right, but McGraw was talking about Paxson being open with the media, not Skiles. And Skiles is the one who sets the rotation (though as jbulls and sst have said, not in July). So your quote was neither here nor there, unless you think Pax and Skiles share the same brain. :biggrin:


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## BullsPro27 (Jul 19, 2006)

sometimes i believe we should have kept chandler but at the same time we got leadership out of pj brown like we did with AD so thats not so bad but then we also have tyrus thomas the most athletic guy in the draft learning from ben wallace. who better to do ur homework on then big ben. i think we will be just fine and maybe better with out tyson even tho i did like him a lot. we will do fine. weve got people who will take the boards and points he got. even tho we dont have a good player over 7' lol were still a big force to be reckoned with. scott skiles has a very tough desicion because he has so many talented guys who he needs to get minutes to. were gonna go all the way simply because we have an unbelievable bench like always but also a better starting lineup. so i see nba finals apperance this year. if not id probably be dissappointed.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> I agree. But I also think that any GM and coach who were talking their rookies up at this point of the season, after summer league has ended, would just be adding undue pressure.
> 
> DuBullz, everything we have heard and seen so far during summer league would hint that the Bulls plan on using Thabo Sefolosha next season. They played him at point, and he looked damn solid. Skiles commented as much before sending him home early with a phantom injury. He played like a vet because he is a vet. Why shouldn't we expect him to contribute next year?
> 
> ...


I would expect that both Thomas and Thabo figure to be in our rotation. They were drafted at our need positions, and one with a very high pick. That's why it's surprising to me that STP would write that the "team" seems settled on an 8 man rotation that doesn't include either.

The 1st and 2nd string newspapers last wrote about the bulls 5 and 2 days ago, respectively, and only to announce the Smith trade and signing of Griffin.


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## Cyanobacteria (Jun 25, 2002)

I envision something along the lines of...
Kirk/Du
BG/Thabo
Lu/Kryhapa (still don't know how to spell that yet)
Noc/Tyrus
Big Ben/PJ

I'm guessing Sweets has a lot to prove this fall or he'll get passed over. I think the door is open for him to take minutes at the 4 and move Noc to the 3 more often, & Viktor to spot minutes, but it's a skinny door and he might not fit through it.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

PG Kirk 30+ Du the rest
SG BG 30+ Thabo the rest
SF Lu 30+ Noc the Rest
PF PJ 10 Noc 20+ Player X
Big Ben 32 PJ 16

Player X will be best match up available, be it TT, Viktor or Sweetney.

I don't see what the big deal is about the rotation, there's 5 guys that will get 30 plus
Kirk, BG, Big Ben, Lu and Noc.

Thabo and Du will get the remaining minutes at the guards spots.
PJ will back up the centre spot and I think start quaters at PF


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## Fizer Fanatic (Jun 20, 2002)

I think the article's proposed rotation is very reasonable. Those who are selling Sweetney short should recall that:
1) Sweetney had some very good games early last season and in the pre-season. He was ready to go from the start.
2) While he did fade in early 2006, Sweetney was a solid contributor in the playoffs against Shaq.
3) He's in a contract year--many guys (3 Cs come to mind) play better in contract years.

Those who feel our 2 lottery picks should be instantly inserted in the 8-man rotation are a bit over-eager in my opinion. We have a solid 8-man rotation without them. With them, Khyrapa, and Allen or Griffin we'll have a very solid 12-man active roster. If the rookies are not in the top 8, they will still get minutes as Skiles will play more than 8 guys. We have the luxury of not needing to rely on rookies (who frequently make mistakes and don't get calls) for big minutes. We shouldn't be upset about talented veterans taking minutes away from our lottery picks. Also, with regard to Tyrus in particular, please recall that:
1) He only played 1 year of college ball
2) He doesn't have a clear NBA position
3) He's considered very raw and still has skills he needs to develop

It'll be interesting to see how things shake out in training camp and the pre-season, but assuming no moves are made (and no injuries occur), I think the top 8 as outlined in the article would seem to be what we would have going into training camp. Thabo and Tyrus should see their roles increase over time, as they prove themselves. With a stellar pre-season, I could see one or both moving into the 8-man, but I'm not expecting that.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> Be definition, if you are a rookie and you don't make the initial rotation, you aren't an immediate impact player.


No! :wink: 

I don't really understand the little debate in this thread. So Paul either speculates what veteran players make up the "current" 8 man rotation or he's citing an "off the record" statement that the "current" 8 man rotation consists of those veterans. (And for what its worth, my understanding of "off the record" means "I'll tell you this but you better keep your god damned mouth shut about it" - not "I'll tell you this and you can feel free to report it but it has to look like your own speculation.")

Its July. 

I can totally understand how a coach could say something off the record along the lines of "these are the 8 guys that I have penciled in for now, because I know what they bring" while not foreclosing in any way how much the two rookies might contribute. 

But, to continue the speculation, I don't think Skiles or Pax said anything of the kind. If there is one thing I know 100% about Skiles, its that if you play hard in practice and games and help the team then you'll play. I also know he ain't afraid to play rookies in major roles. Its simply unthinkable that in July he's decided on a rotation that excludes two lottery picks who just tore up the summer league.

It really doesn't matter if its speculation or fact, we all know the rooks will have the same opportunity Sweets/PJ and everyone else has once they lace them up in September. Skiles is as competitive as they come. For all his flaws, he wants to win.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Let's also not forget that 2 years ago around this time of year, the organization and media were saying that Deng was far too raw to produce much at all in his first year. He went on to a 1st team All-rookie season and played ~30 minutes a game. 

I'm not saying this to suggest that Thabo or TT will do the same, only that it's impossible for anyone, even Skiles, to really know how the minutes will be distributed (beyond Wallace, Kirk and probably Gordon getting big minutes anyway).


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

ViciousFlogging said:


> Let's also not forget that 2 years ago around this time of year, the organization and media were saying that Deng was far too raw to produce much at all in his first year. He went on to a 1st team All-rookie season and played ~30 minutes a game.
> 
> I'm not saying this to suggest that Thabo or TT will do the same, only that it's impossible for anyone, even Skiles, to really know how the minutes will be distributed (beyond Wallace, Kirk and probably Gordon getting big minutes anyway).


right, but Deng came up in a situation where necessity dictated rookies would play. a 2-time playoff team doesnt have such necessities. it's true that no one knows for sure, but it would be a very big surprise to have Tyrus come in and contribute big as a very young rookie to a playoff team... sort of like Tayshaun Prince. 

at best he gives us a nice spark off the bench.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Well, I can see that it's going to be another interesting season on the board. Some folks are already loading up.

Might as well start it now. The Bulls are NOT in a development mode anymore. They're in a WIN NOW mode. This isn't to say that the coaching staff won't be working their tails off to bring TT and Thabo along. They will, but winning will take precedence. There won't be many entitlement minutes. The rookies won't be allowed to play through their mistakes if their net contribution isn't more positive than the alternatives. The players who Skiles thinks will help the team win will get the minutes.

I'm really hoping that Thomas and Sefolosha will, as the season progresses, earn increasing minutes, because this will just make the team that much better. However, their development isn't what this season is about.

Those who plan to judge Skiles on whether player X gets at least Y minutes a game can look forward to spending a lot of time howling like stuck pigs. 

Those who generally believe that Skiles knows what he's doing should begin girding their loins for the onslaught...it could get ugly...again.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

DengNabbit said:


> right, but Deng came up in a situation where necessity dictated rookies would play. a 2-time playoff team doesnt have such necessities. it's true that no one knows for sure, but it would be a very big surprise to have Tyrus come in and contribute big as a very young rookie to a playoff team... sort of like Tayshaun Prince.
> 
> at best he gives us a nice spark off the bench.


True, good points. I don't expect Tyrus to have a huge role, but I do expect him to get some run, and if he's doing things that help us win, his minutes will reflect that. Same with Thabo. Skiles isn't a "Vets Only" kind of coach the way that, say, Larry Brown or even PJax are. He plays the guy who'll give him the best production and effort. 

You're right that this year's team won't have to force the rookies in there the same way Deng, Noc and Gordon were thrown into the fire, but at the same time, they fill areas of need. They'll play unless they really stink up the joint.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

In response to how Paxson feels about Tyrus Thomas for this upcoming season. 

This is from the radio link Miz posten on 21 July.

http://www.670thescore.com/includes.../paxson_web.mp3

"We have a lot of depth this year along our front line. We can always slide Nocioni to the four. Malic Allen, who we brought back, gave us good minutes late in the year and in the playoffs. He's got a skill we think will help us. Khryapa is a guy that no one really knows about, but that we really like. We think that Scott can throw a bunch of different lineups out there. 

*And Tyrus Thomas; we still don't know what we have with him. That kid may just blow everybody out of the water and be ready to play. We just don't know.*"

This is as good a sign as any that Southtown Paul was reaching in his comment about an eight-man roster that doesn't include Sefolosha and Thomas.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> And Tyrus Thomas; we still don't know what we have with him. That kid may just blow everybody out of the water and be ready to play. We just don't know."


When Pax makes comments like that, I sure hope he sees something the rest of us are not. Its hard to expect much from a rookie not named Tim Duncan or Lebron James. But, hopefully Pax sees Tyrus making the same impact Ben gave us his rookie year.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

theanimal23 said:
 

> When Pax makes comments like that, I sure hope he sees something the rest of us are not. Its hard to expect much from a rookie not named Tim Duncan or Lebron James. But, hopefully Pax sees Tyrus making the same impact Ben gave us his rookie year.


Honestly, I think he fully knows what he's capable of. But alot of it depends on training camp. I'm sure Paxson would love Tyrus to outplay everybody and show that's he capable of starting, but he just has too much to learn to do that now.

I was reading a little tidbit on a nba site talking about Tyrus and how his length, atheleticism and jumping ability allows him to play like a 7 footer. He has the ability to be the best player on our team, he has all the tools, now it just takes time.

GLAD HE's HERE! I can say without a doubt, he's going to be the only BEAST out of the lotto.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

darlets said:


> PG Kirk 30+ Du the rest
> SG BG 30+ Thabo the rest
> SF Lu 30+ Noc the Rest
> PF PJ 10 Noc 20+ Player X
> ...


Kind of nice that one of our starting bigs from the playoffs last year wasn't even mentioned, and the other is only mentioned as a 10th, 11th, or 12th man. A pick 4 relied upon at 10-12, a guy who started 53 games last year at 10-12, a guy who started in the finals last year still yet to be mentioned(probably will be in top 11 rotation and bump some of the others out).

that's deep.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> http://www.670thescore.com/includes.../paxson_web.mp3
> 
> "We have a lot of depth this year along our front line. We can always slide Nocioni to the four. *Malic Allen, who we brought back, gave us good minutes late in the year and in the playoffs. He's got a skill we think will help us*. Khryapa is a guy that no one really knows about, but that we really like. We think that Scott can throw a bunch of different lineups out there.


As for Malik Allen....

...is height a skill?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Wynn said:


> As for Malik Allen....
> 
> ...is height a skill?


 well . . . perhaps, if nunchucks is a skill, bowhunting is a skill, computerhacking is a skill . . .


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