# When Saras is gonna start for Pacers?



## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

How long is gonna take Saras to become Pacers starting PG ? My opinion-2 months.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

You left the option of 'not until another season' off the poll. Because that is my vote. Assuming of course Tinsley stays healthy. If Tinsley is healthy for the entire season, I don't see any way that Sarunas is going to start over him.


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

I hope Tinsley will start if he ain't injured....Sarunas will be a very good backup...


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## deannahum (Aug 7, 2003)

Saras >> Tinsley

trust me... i know both players really well... you will be hearing a lot of Saras to J.O


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

Btw, why not the option that he won't start as PG this season?


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

Sorry I think Tinsley will be the starting point guard all season. I think you might see Saras in the end of games when Tinsely is not, but I still see Tinsley starting the Pacers off.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

where's the "keep dreaming" option


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

Pacersthebest said:


> Btw, why not the option that he won't start as PG this season?


I included only realistic options.


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## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

I voted for "after 2 months". He have to prove that he can dominate in the NBA like every where else. Of course it is possible that his game doesn't fit in the NBA or in the Pacers' system. However, I know that Tinsley and Runi are at the same level as a player and I think that Pacers don't have permanent point guard this year. Tinsley and Runi will get very equal playing time unless another of them gets injured.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

When Tinsley goes down with an injury.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

Jermaniac Fan said:


> I voted for "after 2 months". He have to prove that he can dominate in the NBA like every where else. Of course it is possible that his game doesn't fit in the NBA or in the Pacers' system. However, I know that Tinsley and Runi are at the same level as a player and I think that Pacers don't have permanent point guard this year. Tinsley and Runi will get very equal playing time unless another of them gets injured.


Who is Runi?


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## jhammer22 (Jul 29, 2005)

It will be when Tinsley goes down with an injury. When Tinsley is in, they just play so much better. He really is the catalyst that makes this team go. I hope Sharas lives up to the hype and does turn out to be a bust. I thought his highlight film was impressive. Looks like a lights out shooter and great passer.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

mauzer said:


> Who is Runi?


Apparently, Runi is another nickname for Saras.



Turkish Delight said:


> When Tinsley goes down with an injury.


Agreed. I really don't think Saras is going to start at all this year when Tinsley is healthy. Saras will be the first off the bench though.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

tone wone said:


> where's the "keep dreaming" option


indeed. He's not good enough to be an NBA starter, especially on a team that already has a top 10 NBA point guard, i.e., Tinsley.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Not this year


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Midnight_Marauder said:


> Not this year


 isn't Tinsley like 26???

hell, I dont ever see Saras starting...not on this team; not ahead of Tinsley


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

tone wone said:


> isn't Tinsley like 26???
> 
> hell, I dont ever see Saras starting...not on this team; not ahead of Tinsley


How can you say this if havn't seen saras play? Did you see Saras outplay Kidd, Marbury, Wdae, Iverson in Olimpics and Parker , Jaric ir Eurochamps??? I dont think so.


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## PhilK (Jul 7, 2005)

Sorry- I have to::

*No you don't. Please don't bash an entire country even if you're joking, it's too common for people to misinterpret it and start a fight.*

But wait till ya see that man. I'm not gonna start talkin' and discribin'. Just when he makes it to the best East PG of the month- recollect me.


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## parkerj0 (Jul 21, 2005)

I also believe the only way Saras starts is *if* Tinsley gets hurt.(notice IF) I believe when healthy JT is has talented as Tony Parker, and you won't see him coming of the bench do you? Yes JT has struggled with injuries the past couple of years, but most players get injured some point in their career. I only see him getting better, he will be an all-star in a couple of years. With Saras backing him up, he will have plenty to stay healthy. He will go from 38-40 min a game to about 28-30. Saras will play 20-25 minutes at PG and about another 5 minutes at SG alongside Tinsley


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

The Indiana Pacers did a huge move by agreeing to terms with point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius to a three-year deal. The Cleveland Cavaliers, Portland Trail Blazers and Utah Jazz are probably sobbing this one out. SJ gives Indy a floor general, capable of running their slow-mo offense with ease, spotting up for clutch treys, and still being fierce at defense. Now, why couldn't NBA teams just have thought about this earlier?

Every NBA team had a chance of finding out about Sarunas way sooner. I don't even need to exploit his deeds at the Euroleague, I just have to point out that he had a standout career playing college ball at Maryland. From 1994 to 98, Jas was running the game for the Terrapins, shooting 52% from the floor and 39% from the 3 in his senior year. Yet, somewhere between picking Michael Olowokandi first, Mirsad Turkcan 18th, Corey Benjamin 28th, Ansu Sesay 30th, Toby Bailey 45th and Maceo Baston 58th, they couldn't squeeze in Sarunas thru two rounds of the NBA Draft.

I've talked about that draft of 98 before, about how it was supposed to be the greatest and ended up being a sham. Well, this is just another reason to hate it.

So, Jas goes to Europe, becomes successful at every stop he makes, almost kills America at the 2000 Olympics, and yet no one wants to spend money on him. So he moves to european giants Barcelona, stays there for three years and makes them the best team in Europe. Still, no one notices. Moves to Israel, to Maccabi Tel Aviv, a team that was kinda good, but that you just couldn't see winning an Euroleague title, and takes them to back-to-back championships. He's now won three back-to-back european titles, leaving behind great teams like his own ex, Barcelona, plus Real Madrid, Tau Ceramica (which owns in its line-up five or six players wanted by NBA teams), Skipper Bologna, Benneton Treviso and CSKA Moscow. Oh, and in the middle of it, he finally shoots down America, scoring 28 points to defeat the US at the 2004 Olympics.

It takes this long to find out about a great player? What are the NBA scouts paid to do, really? Jas is 29 now. Which means he's at the peak right now. He probably has about three more years of standout play before starting to fade. Yet, the Pacers will need to wait as he adapts to the NBA game, to the NBA three-point line... And they'll probably start Jamaal Tinsley, leaving him with less minutes.

It's a shame. Jasikevicius is probably the best substitute they could find for Reggie Miller when it comes to leadership and clutch fourth quarter plays. I can totally see him scoring like three or four treys in less than two minutes and giving Spike Lee ont the choking sign, but an ironic laugh, showing his tongue.

Now, I know it's not simple as that. I know there are money issues, and that some teams did push to get him, but he was making more money overseas. But that, again, just shows you that they don't respect talent. I mean, look at how many NBA players are overpaid. Mehmet Okur, Adonal Foyle, Jerome James (about to be), Allan Houston, Antoine Walker... Yet, for years, teams would only offer the minimum to Jasikevicius. You telling me you rather pay the medium level to a mediocre player than to a proven winner?

That's why guys like Serbia & Montenegro's Dejan Bodiroga, probably even a better player than Sarunas, choose to stay in Europe instead of making it to America.

***

The Blazers probably won't miss Jas much. They do have a young, talented core and could become a great team in about two-three years - if they keep their parts. But they got their pieces there. The ones who will be missing Sarunas are the Cavs and the Jazz.

It's obvious why Utah should cry about this one. They have no quality PGs anymore, after trading Carlos Arroyo to the Pistons last year and probably losing Raul Lopez to Europe this offseason. Their team is just a big pile of big men who won't even get too much playing time. Just a waste.

As for Cleveland, sure, they're gonna be a great team. They will challenge for the playoffs and probably make it past the first round. Yet, the lithuanian point guard might've been just what they needed to get over the hump already.

Everything they were looking for with Michael Redd, Jas has. Good ball handling. Outside shot. Speed. The two advantages Redd's got is that he's stronger and younger. But it stops there. He doesn't have the same leadership. And that would be the greatest contribution Sarunas could bring to the Cavs, along with his experience.

Who better to teach LeBron about leadership than a guy who's led two different teams to three Euroleague titles? The man who crushed the American National Team while BronBron could only watch from the sidelines, kept deep into the bench by coach Larry Brown?

The problem with the Cavs this past two seasons was the inconsistency of Jeff McInnis, Eric Snow and Mateen Cleaves at the 1. Neither is a good floor general. LeBron leads by example; he hasn't developed that personality to be calling out his teammates in the locker room, in court, and demanding better plays. He's still not Larry Bird or Michael Jordan in that aspect. He needed a man by his side to do just that. And Sarunas would get instant respect from at least three guys: him, Zydrunas Ilgauskas (at whose wedding Jas was the best man) and former teammate Anderson Varejão. I don't think it'd take too long before he had the respect of the rest of them.

Now, who's gonna be quarterbacking in Cleveland? Marko Jaric? Can he really evolve from what he showed us in Clipperland? Or is he another McInnis in disguise? When I think Larry Hughes, I think, great player, but inconsistent. When I think Donyell Marshall, I think, great player, but plays less banging up inside than I'd like him to. That's why I think the Cavs will be just better enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to go any further. Unless James proves me wrong, which won't be a first coming from him.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

PhilK said:


> Sorry- I have to::
> 
> **edited**
> 
> But wait till ya see that man. I'm not gonna start talkin' and discribin'. Just when he makes it to the best East PG of the month- recollect me.


Okay, no one is saying he's going to suck, but don't you think you're going overboard making guarantee's he'll start and be the East PG of the month. He hasn't played a minute of NBA basketball yet.


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## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

Rookie Of the Year!


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

PhilK said:


> Sorry- I have to::
> 
> **edited**
> 
> But wait till ya see that man. I'm not gonna start talkin' and discribin'. Just when he makes it to the best East PG of the month- recollect me.


americans are foolish and arrogant, but your here saying that saras who has never played an nba game is definately going to come in and start over the good pg the pacers already have. is that not arrogant?


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

If Tinsley goes down, I can see Anthony Johnson starting over Sarunas unless he adapts very quickly.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Due to popular demand, I added an extra option, "will not start this season".


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Turkish Delight said:


> Due to popular demand, I added an extra option, "will not start this season".



Thanks Turk.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

I wanna know why there's a double standard between international and NBA players...

How some say that the NBA isn't the end-all, be-all of basketball and just because you're great their doesn't mean your the greatest...but then ignore the fact that that same logic applies to international players...

just because a player "dominates" international competition doesn't mean he's going to do the same in the NBA..

..this double-standard is very funny and strange


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

mauzer said:


> How can you say this if havn't seen saras play? Did you see Saras outplay Kidd, Marbury, Wdae, Iverson in Olimpics and Parker , Jaric ir Eurochamps??? I dont think so.



I also saw Carlos Arroyo tear up the olympics .... and he still sat on the bench for the Jazz and Pistons....that tells me nothing....


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

Turkish Delight said:


> Due to popular demand, I added an extra option, "will not start this season".


Don't you have to ask my permition to add sometihing in MY thread???


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

mauzer said:


> Don't you have to ask my permition to add sometihing in MY thread???


It has nothing to do with him being American. He's actually Canadian. Plus, he's a Community Moderator and he can edit any thread/poll in the central division as he sees fit.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

I don't think he starts this season unless Tinsley gets hurt.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> It has nothing to do with him being American. *He's actually Canadian.* Plus, he's a Community Moderator and he can edit any thread/poll in the central division as he sees fit.



Very nice rebuttal. You owned him decent; good job.


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## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Very nice rebuttal. You owned him decent; good job.


I don't think that canadians have seen Euro basketball more than americans and the most of americans haven't wached it ever.. You will be surprised when u see him in action, thought.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Very nice rebuttal. You owned him decent; good job.


The one who is oned- IS YOU. Your most hated player ( Saras) will start over your favourite player ( Tinsley). My condolences-looks like your worst nightmare is becoming true :banana:


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

mauzer said:


> Don't you have to ask my permition to add sometihing in MY thread??? Oh, sorry, I forgot, you are american, you don't have to ask.


The options you selected were completely bias. There were several posters who wanted another option added, and I did just that. What's the point of being apart of a basketball discussion when you're restricting how people want to express themselves and their ideas. 

And, this has nothing to do with me being American or Canadian. By taking a glance at my username, you will see that I'm from Europe, so if anything I would be on your side wouldn't I? Where I'm from is not an issue here.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

mauzer said:


> The one who is oned- IS YOU. Your most hated player ( Saras) will start over your favourite player ( Tinsley). My condolences-looks like your worst nightmare is becoming true :banana:



ok dude.....seriously....stop...just stop....what is getting accomplished...seriously?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

mauzer said:


> The one who is oned- IS YOU. Your most hated player ( Saras) will start over your favourite player ( Tinsley). My condolences-looks like your worst nightmare is becoming true :banana:


Who said they hate Sarunas? No one is saying that they hate him, or that Tinsley is even their favorite player. People here are just being realistic. There's nothing to be angry about. If Sarunas is really as good as you say he is, we'll eat our words when the time comes.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

mauzer said:


> *POOF*


Wow. I always knew you were a little bit biased but this statement is completely unforgivable. Don't lump groups of people together in a negative way. It merely makes you look bad and ruins any credibility you have.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

mauzer said:


> The one who is oned- IS YOU. Your most hated player ( Saras) will start over your favourite player ( Tinsley). My condolences-looks like your worst nightmare is becoming true :banana:


My question to you is this: how long have you been a Pacer fan...not a saras fan..but a Pacer fan? The people here have been Pacers fans practically their entire life, so while we may not know everything about about Saras, we know how the team works. Right now we have a legit top 10(I think top 5) point guard in the NBA. The Pacers believe that Tinsley is going to be an all-star, and they have a great deal of faith in his abilities. The biggest need for the Pacers was a backup PG to get Tinsley some rest. They found that in Saras. He will see plenty of time, but he will not start over Tinsley as long as Tinsley is healthy. While Saras may excel in Europe and international play, the NBA is a very different game. One of Saras' biggest knocks is his defense, that alone will keep Tinsley starting ahead of him. 

I don't hate Saras whatsoever, I am thrilled that we signed him. However, think about your recent comments. While you are getting all offended about us Americans 'hating' on your favorite player, think about what you are doing to our player. Are you not doing the same thing to Tinsley, who is one of many of our favorite players? Instead of attacking the fanbase of your players' new team, how about having some decent and polite debates as opposed to just calling us ignorant Americans.

One thing I will not tolerate on this forum is members attacking other members based on race, religion, location, etc. So let's keep this clean. Nobody is knocking on you or Saras strictly because you are European, so don't knock on Tinsley or us strictly for being American.


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## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

Turkish Delight said:


> Who said they hate Sarunas? No one is saying that they hate him, or that Tinsley is even their favorite player. People here are just being realistic. There's nothing to be angry about. If Sarunas is really as good as you say he is, we'll eat our words when the time comes.


You can't be realistic before you have seen him playing, can you?


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

Turkish Delight said:


> Who said they hate Sarunas? No one is saying that they hate him, or that Tinsley is even their favorite player. People here are just being realistic. There's nothing to be angry about. If Sarunas is really as good as you say he is, we'll eat our words when the time comes.


Pacersfansusa numerously said that he hates Saras and all Euro palyers-I can finf quotes or you can ask him. And saying that-he never get critisized-that shows how this forum is biased against eurpeans. It is racism im USA-nobody talks about it, but it exists everywhere ( I spent 10 months here-seeing it with my own eyes). And I see all the hate about europeans in real life...


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I really just don't see a rookie that hasn't played American basketball in years starting over a top 10 NBA point guard with top 3 passing skills, an impossible to prevent dribble drive, and a good three point shot.

I even have trouble with Sarunas getting minutes over Anthony Johnson, who is a much, much better defender than Sarunas, but also has just as good of a midrange shot. Sarunas is a better playmaker than Johnson, but that's what the Pacers have Tinsley for.

I believe Sarunas's minutes should be reserved for clutch moments at the SG position (Jackson is iffy regarding clutch. He's great sometimes, but awful others) , or when the Pacers don't need as much defense at the PG position.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

mauzer said:


> The one who is oned- IS YOU. Your most hated player ( Saras) will start over your favourite player ( Tinsley). My condolences-looks like your worst nightmare is becoming true :banana:


Frankly I would be pretty happy if Saras plays so well, and the offense moves so well with him in there that Tinsely is sent to second team...because I think the team runs well with Tinsley in there now. 

From what I have seen of Saras is that he is probably better overall than Tinsley, I just still see Tinsley starting because of the way he starts a game and how the offense runs with him in there. That being said Saras might have more of an impact then Tinsley. Sometimes a better player comes off of the bench due to the nature of the team. I see that happening here.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

mauzer said:


> Pacersfansusa numerously said that he hates Saras and all Euro palyers-I can finf quotes or you can ask him. And saying that-he never get critisized-that shows how this forum is biased against eurpeans. It is racism im USA-nobody talks about it, but it exists everywhere ( I spent 10 months here-seeing it with my own eyes). And I see all the hate about europeans in real life...


Maybe if you were a little more respectful, people wouldn't have such strong feelings against you. If Sarunas wasn't such an ass to his teamates and opponents, I probably wouldn't dislike him as much.


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

PacersguyUSA said:


> If Sarunas wasn't such an ass to his teamates and opponents, I probably wouldn't dislike him as much.


I said I wont be falling for your filthy provocations, but Im bored this time so Im gonna answer. 

Have you seen the clip of all Saras teamates in Maccabi beging him to stay for another year, the clip with many famous Euro players (who are playing in Europe) asking him to stay there? Im sure you didnt. Its quite big, but I can put it on the net with no problem if anyone wants to see it. After it you really gonna understand that the crap PacersguyUSA brings is just crap he makes because of hating the player.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Zalgirinis said:


> I said I wont be falling for your filthy provacations, but Im bored this time so Im gonna answer.
> 
> Have you seen the clip of all Saras teamates in Maccabi beging him to stay for another year, the clip with many famous Euro players (who are playing in Europe) asking him to stay there? Im sure you didnt. Its quite big, but I can put it on the net with no problem if anyone wants to see it. After it you really gonna understand that the crap PcersguyUSA brings is just crap he makes because of hating the player.


I've seen him act absolutely disgustingly towards his teamates, opponents, and refs during the Olympics. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't evoke favor in my eyes towards him.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

mauzer said:


> Pacersfansusa numerously said that he hates Saras and all Euro palyers-I can finf quotes or you can ask him. And saying that-he never get critisized-that shows how this forum is biased against eurpeans. It is racism im USA-nobody talks about it, but it exists everywhere ( I spent 10 months here-seeing it with my own eyes). And I see all the hate about europeans in real life...



Man somebody check the IP address on this dude...he has to of been banned before...This is one time when I wish I was still a CM or even a mod...


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

mauzer said:


> Pacersfansusa numerously said that he hates Saras and all Euro palyers-I can finf quotes or you can ask him. And saying that-he never get critisized-that shows how this forum is biased against eurpeans. It is racism im USA-nobody talks about it, but it exists everywhere ( I spent 10 months here-seeing it with my own eyes). And I see all the hate about europeans in real life...



I would like to see those quotes, as I don't believe he said such things. He may have said something against european style basketball, but not against europeans in general.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

mauzer said:


> Pacersfansusa numerously said that he hates Saras and all Euro palyers-I can finf quotes or you can ask him. And saying that-he never get critisized-that shows how this forum is biased against eurpeans. It is racism im USA-nobody talks about it, but it exists everywhere ( I spent 10 months here-seeing it with my own eyes). And I see all the hate about europeans in real life...


I don't think ayone can honestly say they know for sure how Saras will adapt to the NBA. You can't possibly know that he will start this season. We can't possibly know that he won't start. It's just our opinion on what we believe will happen. It's hypocritical to say this forum is biased against european's when your're being biased yourself. I am very very happy to pick up Saras, and really do think he'll be great for the Pacers.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> I would like to see those quotes, as I don't believe he said such things. He may have said something against european style basketball, but not against europeans in general.


Indeed, I've stated that I like Europe and Europeans, have close European friends, but I don't like European basketball.


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

PacersguyUSA said:


> I've seen him act absolutely disgustingly towards his teamates, opponents, and refs during the Olympics. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't evoke favor in my eyes towards him.


Nailing 3 triples in one minute to your team's bucket of course is disgusting act :banana: :gbanana: :rbanana: 

I understand that you being USA fan couldnt like him from that game, but he really is respectfull for his teamates and opponents (at least for those who respect his team). Refs also, unless you call disagreeing on ref's decision a disgusting act? Then all players are acting so in NBA and you should call everybody like that.


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> I've seen him act absolutely disgustingly towards his teamates, opponents, and refs during the Olympics. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't evoke favor in my eyes towards him.


Do you think your mind may change when he becomes a great asset to a contending pacers team?

Also, I can corroborate that he was much less disgusting in Maccabi, but theres no excuse for disgusting behavior in the olympics, or anywhere.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Zalgirinis said:


> Nailing 3 triples in one minute to your team's bucket of course is disgusting act :banana: :gbanana: :rbanana:
> 
> I understand that you being USA fan couldnt like him from that game, but he really is respectfull for his teamates and opponents (at least for those who respect his team). Refs also, unless you call disagreeing on ref's decision a disgusting act? Then all players are acting so in NBA and you should call everybody like that.


and Dennis Rodman gives to a lot of charities. Just because someone does something good, it doesn't erase his disgusting acts.


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

PacersguyUSA said:


> and Dennis Rodman gives to a lot of charities. Just because someone does something good, it doesn't erase his disgusting acts.


Im missing something here. About what *exact* disgusting acts from Olympics you are talking here?


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Zalgirinis said:


> Nailing 3 triples in one minute to your team's bucket of course is disgusting act :banana: :gbanana: :rbanana:
> 
> I understand that you being USA fan couldnt like him from that game, but he really is respectfull for his teamates and opponents (at least for those who respect his team). Refs also, unless you call disagreeing on ref's decision a disgusting act? Then all players are acting so in NBA and you should call everybody like that.


Here is an example of how he is not only disrespectful, but he lets it get inside his head and affect his game:

"*Lithuania, 4/10*: They couldn't kill the game and Jasikevicius instead of trying to beat his man, or to keep his man in defence was losing his nerves, always yelling at the referees. Infact, Jasikevicius was awful shooting his 3/15 from the court. 12 points in two minutes? When it was important Basile scored them, against Jasikevicius. The man who was coming as one of the best shooters of the world ended with 1/12 (but he's a winner, as we remembered from the 1/3 from the line in Sydney against the USA). Macijauskas? He simply forgot to play basketball in the 2nd half. And their arrogance returned home..."

If he only yelled at the refs once or twice in the game, it could be okay, but I remember him berating the refs nearly the entire game, and his play and team.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

I hope he ends up starting.. meaning he either beats out Tins or Sjax, both good guards. I could see Carlysle trying all 3 combinations, but ultimately I think it'll be Saras and SJax. Personally, I'd really like to see Tins and Saras start at 1 and 2, but that's only if Saras can guard 2's, which I have my doubts.

But nevertheless, and this may constitute as pointing out the obvious, I want Saras to earn his starting spot, not start because of another injury.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

StephenJackson said:


> One thing I will not tolerate on this forum is members attacking other members based on race, religion, location, etc. So let's keep this clean. Nobody is knocking on you or Saras strictly because you are European, so don't knock on Tinsley or us strictly for being American.


I second that. Some of the comments in this thread were not acceptable and I edited them out. Needless to say, if someone makes similar comments about Europe, those will be edited as well.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

I have to agree with Pacersguy. I don't like Saras's attitude toward his teammates, opponents, or the refs. But I like the way the guy plays. I think he'll be a great backup to Tinsley. If his attitude gets out of line though, I don't think he deserves playing ahead of AJ. Judging by that article, he's more worried about refs making calls than actually playing the game.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Here is an example of how he is not only disrespectful, but he lets it get inside his head and affect his game:
> 
> "*Lithuania, 4/10*: They couldn't kill the game and Jasikevicius instead of trying to beat his man, or to keep his man in defence was losing his nerves, always yelling at the referees. Infact, Jasikevicius was awful shooting his 3/15 from the court. 12 points in two minutes? When it was important Basile scored them, against Jasikevicius. The man who was coming as one of the best shooters of the world ended with 1/12 (but he's a winner, as we remembered from the 1/3 from the line in Sydney against the USA). Macijauskas? He simply forgot to play basketball in the 2nd half. And their arrogance returned home..."
> 
> If he only yelled at the refs once or twice in the game, it could be okay, but I remember him berating the refs nearly the entire game, and his play and team.


Yes it was bad game by saras, why are using one example as description of player? You want me to show you stats of tinsley , kobe, lebron, shaq , duncan scoring 2 points on 1/20 shooting and 10 mistakes?????? And when he was yelling at hisi teammates?????? **I have problems when it comes to not attacking other posters, fortunately the moderators will keep editing my posts as long as I keep doing it**


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

Larry Legend said:


> I have to agree with Pacersguy. I don't like Saras's attitude toward his teammates, opponents, or the refs. But I like the way the guy plays. I think he'll be a great backup to Tinsley. If his attitude gets out of line though, I don't think he deserves playing ahead of AJ. Judging by that article, he's more worried about refs making calls than actually playing the game.


You are 14 years old. How many games of Saras did you see? Was you watching olympics 2000 when Saras outplayed Kidd? 2004 -Marbury, AI, Wade, Parker, Jaric? And don't give me that bull**** about differences in rules-they play same basketball everythere. Lets sto all these debates about Saras untill he plays games in NBA. If Saras plays worse than Tinsley after couple months of adaptation in the league i will never post here again and will agree that i was wrong.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

mauzer said:


> You are 14 years old. How many games of Saras did you see? Was you watching olympics 2000 when Saras outplayed Kidd? 2004 -Marbury, AI, Wade, Parker, Jaric? And don't give me that bull**** about differences in rules-they play same basketball everythere. Lets sto all these debates about Saras untill he plays games in NBA. If Saras plays worse than Tinsley after couple months of adaptation in the league i will never post here again and will agree that i was wrong.


Someone already brought this up, but I guess you ignored it. Carlos Arroyo dominated the US during the Olympics, yet he couldn't even find starter minutes on the Jazz last year. Just goes to show how different the NBA game is, and how hard it is to adjust.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

He'll start whenever Tinsley gets hurt, which is an inevitability.

I really look forward to seeing what he can do. I have high hopes.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Rawse said:


> He'll start whenever Tinsley gets hurt, which is an inevitability.
> 
> I really look forward to seeing what he can do. I have high hopes.


Not to say that Tinsley has shown much promise with his health over the last 2 years, but I still have to offer support for him. Last year's injury had nothing to do with bad conditioning or anything like that. In fact, last year he was in the best shape of his basketball career, he lost a lot weight and picked up a lot more speed. Last year's injury that he suffered was a freak incident where he really tweaked his foot and the Doctors conitnuously misdiagonosed it and made him think that he could come back sooner than he could, so when he started playing again before his foot was ready for it, it just made matters worse. I know a lot of people knock Tinsley for being injury prone due to poor conditioning, but I have no reason to believe that Tinsley is going to go down again next year, unless it is another freak incident.

I expect a very conditioned Tinsley next year who is going to have the best season of his career to date. And I expect him to start every game that he plays.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

Turkish Delight said:


> Someone already brought this up, but I guess you ignored it. Carlos Arroyo dominated the US during the Olympics, yet he couldn't even find starter minutes on the Jazz last year. Just goes to show how different the NBA game is, and how hard it is to adjust.


It is idiotic to judge about player from his ONE game. Saras won 3!!!!!! times in row Euroleague and Eurochamp at 2003 and was superstar in Europe. Who the **** is Carlos Aroyo? When did he dominate in euroleague or in any serious league??????? It only shows how stupid and unprofessional your scout are-they judge by one or to games-that why you land busts like Aroyo, Darko, Kutluay and others. Tell me the guy who suceded in Euroleague and failed in NBA. Lokk at Kirilenko, Stojakovich, Ilgauskas, Novitzki, Ginobili, -they did well in Europe -and they do good in NBA.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

mauzer said:


> It is idiotic to judge about player from his ONE game. Saras won 3!!!!!! times in row Euroleague and Eurochamp at 2003 and was superstar in Europe. Who the **** is Carlos Aroyo? When did he dominate in euroleague or in any serious league??????? It only shows how stupid and unprofessional your scout are-they judge by one or to games-that why you land busts like Aroyo, Darko, Kutluay and others. Tell me the guy who suceded in Euroleague and failed in NBA. Lokk at Kirilenko, Stojakovich, Ilgauskas, Novitzki, Ginobili, -they did well in Europe -and they do good in NBA.


That is a good point. If this guy is good and wins no one will care about an outburst or two (see Ron Artest). Bring on Saras!!! :banana:


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

mauzer said:


> Yes it was bad game by saras, why are using one example as description of player? You want me to show you stats of tinsley , kobe, lebron, shaq , duncan scoring 2 points on 1/20 shooting and 10 mistakes?????? And when he was yelling at hisi teammates?????? You have serious mental problems with attitude to saras.


Because you asked for one example?


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Because you asked for one example?


So because of one game were he was frustrated with his and his teamplates play and about awfull refereeing -you hate the player????

Post Edited: I won't allow that kind of personal attack on other members. Argue your point without the personal attacks. -StephenJackson-


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

mauzer said:


> So because of one game were he was frustrated with his and his teamplates play and about awfull refereeing -you hate the player???? Man-go visit shrink.., you need serious help.


I think you need to learn the definition of example.

He was whining, complaining, yelling, or taunting throughout a great majority of the Olympics, and yes I did watch most of the games.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> I think you need to learn the definition of example.
> 
> He was whining, complaining, yelling, or taunting throughout a great majority of the Olympics, and yes I did watch most of the games.


What is wrong with yelling ? Are you kidding me? Or he has to whisper? And what is wrong with complaining about officiating in these Olympics? Duncan and all USA team with coach were complaining all th etime, espessialy L. Brown, do you hate them too? Whining, taunting ? 

Post edited: Stop attacking other members.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Turkish Delight said:


> Someone already brought this up, but I guess you ignored it. Carlos Arroyo dominated the US during the Olympics, yet he couldn't even find starter minutes on the Jazz last year. Just goes to show how different the NBA game is, and how hard it is to adjust.



Wow someone reads my posts? I thought everyone just had me on their ignore list..ha ha...

Seriously though...how in the hell did this thread get to be 5+ pages...good lord


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Midnight_Marauder said:


> Wow someone reads my posts? I thought everyone just had me on their ignore list..ha ha...


Of course we do! :angel: 



> Seriously though...how in the hell did this thread get to be 5+ pages...good lord


A wonderful question indeed.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

mauzer said:


> What is wrong with yelling ? Are you kidding me? Or he has to whisper? And what is wrong with complaining about officiating in these Olympics? Duncan and all USA team with coach were complaining all th etime, espessialy L. Brown, do you hate them too? Whining, taunting ? You are pathetic arrogant trol with mental problems.



When you're yelling at your own teamates belligerently, or complaining to the refs when you're not doing that, or feeling the need to constantly taunt the opponent when you're doing well is not a favorable characteristic no matter what way you spin it.

I don't really like Duncan or Larry Brown. I like them better than Sarunas though, because they don't taunt or yell belligerently at their own players as much or at all.

P.S.: You might want to step your insult game up a bit. Arrogant and mentally disturbed are gettting boring to me.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

mauzer said:


> You are pathetic arrogant trol with mental problems.


Pot... meet kettle.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

tone wone said:


> I wanna know why there's a double standard between international and NBA players...
> 
> How some say that the NBA isn't the end-all, be-all of basketball and just because you're great their doesn't mean your the greatest...but then ignore the fact that that same logic applies to international players...
> 
> ...


 very insightful post


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

tone wone said:


> very insightful post


I've never seen anyone claim that "the NBA isn't the end-all, be-all of basketball and just because you're great their doesn't mean your the greatest" though.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> One of Saras' biggest knocks is his defense, that alone will keep Tinsley starting ahead of him.


Tinsley is terrible at playing defense. There's no way he'll ever improve to even decent. It'll be nice to see who's worse at defense next year: Saras or Tinsley.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> Tinsley is terrible at playing defense. There's no way he'll ever improve to even decent. It'll be nice to see who's worse at defense next year: Saras or Tinsley.


Tinsley's not that bad at defense. He actually among the league leaders in steals, not just playing the passing lanes, but actual pick pockets as well. He's not that great I admit though because he gets beat often. He can be pretty smart, however, like against Paul Pierce, but he has a tendency to commit bad fouls.

It really only matters when the Paces are playing against someone like Marbury or Baron Davis. People like Kidd, Nash, and Miller usually aren't a problem.

I'm pretty sure Sarunas will be a worse defender.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Tinsley's not that bad at defense. He actually among the league leaders in steals, not just playing the passing lanes, but actual pick pockets as well. He's not that great I admit though because he gets beat often. He can be pretty smart, however, like against Paul Pierce, but he has a tendency to commit bad fouls.
> 
> It really only matters when the Paces are playing against someone like Marbury or Baron Davis. People like Kidd, Nash, and Miller usually aren't a problem.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Sarunas will be a worse defender.


Tinsley gambles on everything because he can't guard anyone one-on-one. For how many times he gambles per game, it's not surprising he's one of the league leaders in steals. He can make some pretty smart steals at times, but they come at the expense of letting players by him earlier in the game.


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## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

Ok lets see ....
Over or Under that this Thread reached 10 Pages ?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

in my mind the number one reason the Pacers made the playoffs last season is because of how Tinsley became the man when other guys got suspended. Saras isnt going to be as good as running the team as Tinsley, and he will be a defensive liability, he looked great overseas, but this is the NBA and you gotta prove yourself. Lets see Saras defend guys like Boykins :clap: , Marbury, Francis, Bibby, Nash, Wade, etc etc etc. Might as well be Kyle Korver guarding them.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

StephenJax or RP....please lock this thread..please...I'm beggin ya...


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Midnight_Marauder said:


> StephenJax or RP....please lock this thread..please...I'm beggin ya...



I'm gonna see what happens with the thread today. I don't mind the Tinsley/Saras argument, as it is definitely a focal point of what the future of the team is going to be. If the petty back and fourth name-calling continues today without intelligent arguments, I will close it.


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