# So When Is It Time To Trade Brand?



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ya I know your answer is never, and I definitely don't think right now, but at some point in the near future it needs to be done.

I love Brand, he's a warrior, but he's not going to carry a team into a winner.

We have Chris Wilcox who is going to be a hell of a player, you put him in the East and he could be a all-star.

Wilcox is going to cost half of what Brand does and give us stats, it might be in the teams best interest to move Brand for another talent or talents that fill needs.

I'm not going to start a trade Brand campaign, but what do you think we're gona do with Wilcox?

Sit him on the bench forever?

Let him walk?

Trade him?

Let him blow the hell up somewhere else?

I don't see Wilcox as a Center, long term, so that's why I'm not sure if they can co-exist, if they could, I'd be happy with keeping both of them, but I just don't see that happening.

If a decision has to be made, if I could get a good deal for Brand, I'd keep Wilcox, and bring in those other talents to fill out my roster.

Please don't start crap about "no Clippers fan would ever suggest such a thing" because that's garbage, if Shaq can be traded, anyone can, so I'm thinking long term and I'm not suggesting anything right at this moment.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Dont trade him if he is given the ball consitenly down low he can be a dominating scorer but they dont give him the ball in the right places enough. Maggette is a major problem of this with his poor shot selection and not hittin players in the post.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Would never trade him. Wilcox while brilliant at times is far from consistent. Not many compare to brand in consistency in the league.

I say hurry up and extend wilcox's contract, and keep brand, kaman, and wilcox as a three man rotation in the front court.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> Would never trade him. Wilcox while brilliant at times is far from consistent. Not many compare to brand in consistency in the league.
> 
> I say hurry up and extend wilcox's contract, and keep brand, kaman, and wilcox as a three man rotation in the front court.


I think you have a problem, if you think Wilcox is going to accept being the back-up during the bulk of his prime. He more than likely will have to be dealt or walk. You can't have a 20/10 capable PF playing sporadic minutes.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Hes not capable of 20 and 10 over a whole year. Unless he was like on the bobcats or something, and they didnt have okafor. 

Three man rotation would be great. Brand would get about 35 mins with kaman and wilcox averaging around 30

Is this going to happen? Probably not since the clippers want to throw all of their money at a max player next year, meaning not much room for wilcox extension. But it definately would be the way to go IMO.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

I would trade Brand, if the right deal came along. I would even mildly pursue a trade, but not shop him heavily. I believe Wilcox will become a consistent threat at PF for the Clips, and if he is stuck on the bench, he will find a way out of Clipper town.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

L.A. Clippers trades: PG Marko Jaric (8.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) 
PF Elton Brand (18.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 42.3 minutes) 
L.A. Clippers receives: SG Ronald Murray (0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 8.0 minutes) 
PG Antonio Daniels (10.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 26.3 minutes) 
PF Vladimir Radmanovic (14.7 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.7 apg in 27.0 minutes) 
SF Rashard Lewis (24.7 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.7 apg in 37.3 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +23.2 ppg, +0.8 rpg, and +1.1 apg. 

Seattle trades: SG Ronald Murray (0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 8.0 minutes) 
PG Antonio Daniels (10.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 26.3 minutes) 
PF Vladimir Radmanovic (14.7 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.7 apg in 27.0 minutes) 
SF Rashard Lewis (24.7 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.7 apg in 37.3 minutes) 
Seattle receives: PG Marko Jaric (8.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) 
PF Elton Brand (18.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 42.3 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -23.2 ppg, -0.8 rpg, and -1.1 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Hmmmmm....interesting topic. 



Wilcox has steadily improved for the last 4-5 years (Dating back to college), but is his ceiling higher than Brand's? If Brand can get the Clippers an impact player, then the Clippers would have to seriously think about dealing off Brand.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Why keep them both that is where the Clippers can have an advantage over all the other teams in the league. Wilcox can play 5 there isnt very many bad match ups aganist him. Big men are very important too have a good team.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

You guys are ALWAYS talking trade.

Weren't you complaining (I was), when we broke up the chemistry we had with Miles, etc.?

How can you EVER develop team chemistry if you're always trading, always trying to get the next best guy. Look around at Detroit --- chemistry and defense.

Worry about a trade when it is absolutely necessary. For now, enjoy the potential for a good season.


Geeeeeeeeeeeezzz!!!


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Exactly the Clips need stabilty so this group can grow together.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

hmmm i remember talking about what Wilcox was going to become. Everyone still think i'm ahead of myself? He is ready to be a starting PF in this league...now.

Why not land Radman Daniels murray and lewis?

That adds a lot of talent with some guys that could be retained.


Radman would be a nice super sub.

kittles and daniels would compete to be the point guard. Man lots of talent to chose from.

plus having lewis and Maggette at the 3, and 2. Not so bad either


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

what's wrong with having 2 good post players and an upincoming one in Kaman, Nothing it's great the will be able to dominate down low plus in a coupld years maybe Wilcox will surpass Brand(dont thinkso) but they could use him as the primary big man and use brand as secondary.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

Why not deal Wilcox instead?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> Why not land Radman Daniels murray and lewis?


That is the exact package HKF has been suggesting for the longest...


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sMaKDiSDoWn</b>!
> Why not deal Wilcox instead?


Brand has more trade value....


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## DiRTy DiRK (Jun 4, 2003)

We do not need to trade Wilcox...Stud big men are hard to come by...We should keep both brand and wilcox...Start wilcox and bring kaman off the bench...one of them will usually be in foul trouble and kaman seems to get nagging injuries...a frontcourt of wilcox kaman and brand would solidify the frontcourt for years...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

LOL, you want Tyson Chandler for him? We'll throw in Eddy Curry too


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## Restless (Nov 11, 2004)

I'll start off by saying that trading Brand to make room for Wilcox is not a bad idea. Wilcox has been blossoming, and although he isn't as good as Brand and probably won't ever be, Brand could get the Clippers something valuable in return. 

The logic in trading Brand is that Wilcox won't be happy coming off the bench during his prime, and I agree somewhat, but the thing thats been overlooked is the fact that Bobby Simmons has been having a year as good as Wilcox so far. By trading Brand for Lewis, I assume the Clippers would move Maggette to the shooting guard position, and you'd still have Kittles as well as Murray. 

Bobby Simmons is a free agent after this season, and I doubt he'd resign with Maggette and Lewis locked in as the starting wings for the bulk of Simmons prime. Simmons will be a starting shooting guard in this league for a long time.

Just something to think about.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> That is the exact package HKF has been suggesting for the longest...


ill tell you what ...before the season i simply stated that brand should be traded...and people werent even open to the idea at all. I simply suggested.... trade brand for a package... i put together a couple senerios...but really didnt endorse any strongly...was just making a point about Wilcox. I dont care to take credit for the trade idea. I just want credit for pegging Wilcox a year early.

And restless, i wouldnt worry about the Clippers dealing with a surplus of talent at this point. The Clips need to go the playoffs and knock the Lakers out. A better question is with Lewis and Maggette....would Sterling pay to keep Simmons? 

Kaman Wilcox Lewis Maggette Kittles Daniels Radman Simmons Murray

Not a bad rotation. Daniels would be a nice guy to have next year as well...while the Clips see how well Livingston is coming along


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

You guys are all stupid that want to trade Brand . They have too many good players at one position so they trade and get another log game at a less important poistion:uhoh: I'm glad you guys dont do any moves for the clips they would never win 30 games. Chemistry is the most important part of the team not talent.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> You guys are all stupid that want to trade Brand . They have too many good players at one position so they trade and get another log game at a less important poistion:uhoh: I'm glad you guys dont do any moves for the clips they would never win 30 games. Chemistry is the most important part of the team not talent.


Yes because our moves would be the Clippers a losing organization. Wake up, the Clippers are losing organization now. You need vision to win in this league, not cheap cost cutting ways. Brand could net a lot of talent in return, that's the main point. 

You love Brand, but Clippers fans seem to also love mediocrity. I don't get it. Tonight's win doesn't change that.


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## swift88 (Jul 4, 2004)

Stay in Hong Kong, we like mediocrity? Sht it's easy to go for a team that spend a tons of money. Clips are fun to watch not like Seatle or Kings, and its not like your own franchise, a winning team is not everything.

Sht, root for the Yankees then. A good sport team is one that win championship with a low budget. Certain love to root for all you can buy team, that I think is not Clippers fans, or at least not me.

Dont come in other team forum and diss their team, that's coward. Besides team loving is a matter of taste, if you dont like the Clippers get the fck out of the Clips section


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Memphis trades: Ryan Humphrey (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
PG Jason Williams (7.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 4.0 apg in 26.3 minutes) 
SG Bonzi Wells (13.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 28.8 minutes) 
Memphis receives: PF Elton Brand (18.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 42.3 minutes) 
PG Marko Jaric (8.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +6.0 ppg, +4.2 rpg, and -0.2 apg. 

L.A. Clippers trades: PF Elton Brand (18.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 42.3 minutes) 
PG Marko Jaric (8.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) 
L.A. Clippers receives: Ryan Humphrey (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
PG Jason Williams (7.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 4.0 apg in 26.3 minutes) 
SG Bonzi Wells (13.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 28.8 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -6.0 ppg, -4.2 rpg, and +0.2 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Clippers
PG Jason Williams, Shaun Livingston, Lionel Chalmers
SG Bonzi Wells, Kerry Kittles
SF Corey Maggette, Bobby Simmons
PF Chris Wilcox, Mikki Moore, Ryan Humphrey
C Chris Kaman, Zeljko Rebraca

Memphis
PG Earl Watson, Marko Jaric, Antonio Burks*
SG Mike Miller, Dahntay Jones, Andre Emmett
SF James Posey, Shane Battier
PF Elton Brand, Brian Cardinal, Lorenzen Wright
C Pau Gasol, Stromile Swift, Jake Tsakalidis*


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>swift88</b>!
> Stay in Hong Kong, we like mediocrity? Sht it's easy to go for a team that spend a tons of money. Clips are fun to watch not like Seatle or Kings, and its not like your own franchise, a winning team is not everything.
> 
> Sht, root for the Yankees then. A good sport team is one that win championship with a low budget. Certain love to root for all you can buy team, that I think is not Clippers fans, or at least not me.
> ...


It's obvious why Sterling is able to do whatever he pleases, because the lasseiz faire attitude of Clipper fans. Since you guys don't demand a winner, why put a winning team out there, is probably what the guy says. No I'm not saying to go root for another team, I'm just saying the Clippers don't seem to have any intention of winning. They've always been about turning a profit, which is fine, it's a business... but to quote Jets coach Herman Edwards.

"Hello.. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME."


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

No, you don't trade Brand because the guy is able to play at a level Wilcox isn't close to being guaranteed to reach when he's older. Wilcox is a very nice young talent, but Brand is a proven 20-10-3 2.5 bpg player that is 26 years old. He has a VERY fair $10M per contract. Unless you can get a top 15 player and another good role player in return for Brand, there's no reason to trade him.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> No, you don't trade Brand because the guy is able to play at a level Wilcox isn't close to being guaranteed to reach when he's older. Wilcox is a very nice young talent, but Brand is a proven 20-10-3 2.5 bpg player that is 26 years old. He has a VERY fair $10M per contract. Unless you can get a top 15 player and another good role player in return for Brand, there's no reason to trade him.


Unless you want to win...in that case. trade with the sonics.

Production is meaningless if your loosing. Lets quote some bobcat numbers. No way we trade Brezec for Brand. The numbers just dont match up, Brezec comes soo much cheaper, it just wouldnt be a good trade for the bobcats. :laugh:


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> 
> 
> Unless you want to win...in that case. trade with the sonics.
> ...


Unless Brand is something other than a top 15 player, how on earth does he make his team lose? Do you watch basketball much?


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## Restless (Nov 11, 2004)

All you people on the "trade Brand if you want to win" bandwagon sure picked an akward time to be vocal about wanting to trade Brand. The Clippers are playing the best basketball they've played in years, and now you want to trade him? 

Let it be known that this team does not need any trades right now, and it would be especially foolish to trade the best player on the team just because he could net you a lot in return. This team is winning right now with its current roster, why mess that up? I consider some teams foolish for trading any of their core if the formula is working, so obviously trading the best player on the team when the formula is working would just be a very bad management move, but hey, it is the Clippers.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Unless Brand is something other than a top 15 player, how on earth does he make his team lose? Do you watch basketball much?



Did i type anything about Brand "making" his team lose?

you said Wilcox wouldnt produce as much a Brand. So I compared Brand's production to a player on the Cats to simply make a point. Production is meaningless if you arent winning. While the Clippers did have a nice game against the Indiana Pacers (without a lot of their core players) that doesnt mean the Clips are going to be successful this season. If your not in the top 8 your not successful.

All I am saying is...this trade will net more wins for the Clippers.

And like HKF said....the Clippers are a losing organization. They have been for a long time. Regardless of who you want to blame, the team has not faired well. I certainly am not blaming Danny Manning Ron Harper...or Elton Brand. Hmm looks like i've seen some basketball. Even the Clippers. 

The point you dont get is. This trade is better for the team that needs to overcome some serious demons. Because when I come in this room...some of you are OK with losing. Being ok with losing is not acceptable


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

The trade wouldnt make the Clippers better that is what is horrible about the trade. Rebounding and Defense are as much as important as offense and the guys the team would get in rebounding wouldnt bring those elements Elton does. You guys also assume to much just becasue Wilcox has had 4 good games that means they should trade Brand . elton has done what he does for years not games. Wilcox has a lot of potential but does that mean he is gonna reach it  This is why you dont trade elton, wilcox could flop after he got his contract. You guys do the same with Livingston he is a decent player now with tons of potential but he has a long way to go. The same goes for wilcox.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> Wilcox has a lot of potential but does that mean he is gonna reach it


your confused. Darko has "Potiental"

Wilcox is living up to his potiental this year. and in his reserve role last year. 

Given Forty minutes a game he'd average 8 rebounds a game, maybe more if Elton was in a sonics uni. Plus youll have Kaman at center. I'm sorry but judging by both those guys pasts so far.... they should do fine. Elton has had trouble defending the taller guys in the post at times, but he is a good rebounder no question. With everyone healthy youd have Radman Daniels Murray and Simmons coming of the bench. 

with Kaman Wilcox Lewis Maggette Kittles starting.

Better team, more talent, filling all positions, and your bench. I think you overrate brand and underrate wilcox. You make it seem like he's in livingston's position. Livingston has potiental. Wilcox should be a starter in the NBA


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> I think you overrate brand and underrate wilcox. You make it seem like he's in livingston's position. Livingston has potiental. Wilcox should be a starter in the NBA


Couldn't agree more.

Great quote.


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## RhettO (May 15, 2003)

The only reason I would want to trade Brand is to silence the haters. Brand is a great person and an excellent ball player. He has just had the misfortune of being on bad ball clubs. Everyone blames the losses on him. IMO, if you replace J. O'Neal with Brand, the Pacers would still be a playoff team. I hate to see Brand called a "loser" because of the teams he's been on.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Brand will not be a winner in this league as a team's franchise player.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Brand will not be a winner in this league as a team's franchise player.


we agree on something, although he'd be in a good situation with another guy...like Ray Allen...and seattle would have to compensate dearly to get him


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

I posted this three teams trade involving Bulls, Lakers, and the Clips. I just want to know what do Clips fans think of this trade?

Chicago trade:
Curry
Hinrich

Chicago get:
Wilcox
Butler
=============================
Clips trade:
Wilcox
Simmons

Clips get:
Curry
Rush

=============================
Lakers trade:
Butler
Rush

Lakers get:
Hinrich
Simmons


I know this is a good trade for the Bulls.... but.. I try to make this trade as even as possible for the other teams.

Wilcox is not a C. Eddy Curry is a C. Both were drafted based on potential. But, I think Eddy's ceiling is higher at Center. Eddy has been disappointing so far this season. I think that's mainly because he's asked to carry the team. Eddy can be a very good player in this league, but he's not the number one option type of player. The Clippers will be a good place for him to start fresh. He doesn't have to carry the load. He has Brand and Maggette to rely on. He can just do his things. for example, Curry usually performs better when Jamal Crawford was in charge. I doubt that Curry will be another Kandiman. Two seasons ago, Eddy actually showed what kind of player he's capable of becoming. I just don't think he's going to achieve that in a Bulls uniform.


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## SLOCLIPPS (Nov 12, 2004)

*Good call*

Although he is the man, and can take over and wants to take over the game, good call. He's been injured 2 of the last 3 years, had surgery on two different things this off season. We need someone desperately to run the show out there (why is it that every young point guard thinks score first, make your team better and pass second)
And lastly, we know Sterling, he'll opt for the cheaper guy and trade Brand for someone who has an expiring contract

and PS, Miles had no fundamentals, so although all you fans loved the guy, he wasn't going to win us ball games


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## DiRTy DiRK (Jun 4, 2003)

The thing is, Wilcox is better than Curry and Simmons is better than Rush....There is no reason to trade Wilcox for another big guy with "potential" because Wilcox has as much if not more than those big men PLUS he's already producing...DON"T TRADE THE COX!


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Sterling is a cheap guy. Do you think he'll give Wilcox extension when he already sign Brand who is also a PF to a long term deal?

Getting Curry and Rush will free salary caps (both contracts will expired at the end of the season) and you guys can go for Ray Allen (Free Agent at the end of season) in the off season. 

Luring Allen wouldn't be hard for the Clips I think. Allen for the first time in his career will have the opportunity to play with an All-Star calibre low post player in Elton Brand. Mike Dunleavy is a good coach. And The Clips is already one of the top teams in the West now. What could be better for Allen?

Kaman
Brand
Maggette
Allen
Livingston

not bad... not bad at all...


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## swift88 (Jul 4, 2004)

Obviously the media determines the way you think. Basketball is a business, popular players bring in $, and might bring in a championship. 

Even if basketball is not a business, you play a game because it is fun. You like certain player because it is our own taste.

Back to the subject, I like brand but I'd like to keep him, because Clippers has been rebuilding, I'd like to see the team grow for a while.

But just for the heck of it, if I"d trade him. 

Clippers gives: Wilcox + Brand + a 1st Round Pick
Clippers get: T-Mac + Al Jefferson

We'd score more outside, giving out inside scoring. Al got D, and with time, he'd be just like Brand.





> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> It's obvious why Sterling is able to do whatever he pleases, because the lasseiz faire attitude of Clipper fans. Since you guys don't demand a winner, why put a winning team out there, is probably what the guy says. No I'm not saying to go root for another team, I'm just saying the Clippers don't seem to have any intention of winning. They've always been about turning a profit, which is fine, it's a business... but to quote Jets coach Herman Edwards.
> ...


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## Herdof (Nov 14, 2004)

While I agree that we're overrating Brand and underrating Wilcox, I think it's too early to be talking trading EB. I do think that at the rate Wilcox is performing and the fact that he can't play center all season, they will have to make a decision on who to keep. I really want Wilcox to thrive and flourish in LA, BUT I refuse to compromise a winning formula (as of now) in order to see it. If the two gives W, keep both by any means. Elton Brand will not be a franchise player, I repeat, he WILL NOT be a franchise player. You can't build around him, from what I've seen. He'll be a consistent 20-10-3-2 and nothing more (not like its a bad thing). He just can't carry a team.

Sterling would probably trade Brand, the cheap bastid. :upset:


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Why not trade Kaman and put Wilocx at full-time center. right now the Clips dont need to becasue he isnt demanding minutes with his play. Wilcox should be the teams starting center he would only be overmatched aganist Yao and Shaq and so would Kaman.


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## Herdof (Nov 14, 2004)

Wilcox is pretty light (229) to be put at center. Plus, they just used a first-rounder on Kaman last year and he showed flashes. He's a solid young center.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Herdof</b>!
> I think it's too early to be talking trading EB. Sterling would probably trade Brand, the cheap bastid. :upset:



Its never too early to start winning


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Looking at the Don's history there will be no way that he sign's Wilcox to a long term deal with Brand around. If Brand goes that might be another story. 

I really admire Clippers fans for sticking with them while that cheap bas**rd keeps a GM who obviously can scout around so he has a perpetual load of bright young talent that he doesn't have to pay much. 

Enjoy Wilcox while you have him: he's going to be a stud, hopefully with the guy's who drafted him. Wanted the Cavs to draft him rather then Wagner that year.


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## dhook54 (Aug 7, 2003)

I wouldn't trade Brand unless Duncan, Garnett or maybe Nowitzki was offered. There's no way we should trade him unless there's a superstar to be had. I wouldn't trade him for Gasol, Kirelenko or Zach Randolf! Just my opinion.


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## swift88 (Jul 4, 2004)

Kirelenko is averaging 5 blocks per game!!, but I wont get him for Brand, chemistry is good right now.


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