# Is Shannon Brown a bust?



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

When he has played he has looked just as bad as Luke Jackson. And now he can't even get around Newble and Wesley in the rotation.

Should Ferry cut his losses before anyone notices and try and get a second round pick out of him?


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Cut your losses less than 25 games into the season? At the very least, Brown is an equal to Ira Newble and David Wesely. I'm hard pressed to believe that he's not better than at least one of them. From a pure basketball standpoint that is devoid of veteran bias, routine and habit - it seems very much premature to rule out Shannon Brown.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Yeah, Brown is better than at least a couple players on the team right now. There's no way from what I've seen that we should try to trade him yet. We haven't even given him a legitimate chance this year. Just a few minutes here or there.

Now I can't see what's going on in practice. Maybe he's just abysmal there. But I don't see any reason to try to trade him now.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

^ Yeah. If I could get an all-access, behind-the-scenes pass and see Ira Newble and David Wesley light the world on fire during practice and regularly putting Shannon Brown in his place, then I'd quickly change my tune, praise Coach Brown for staying with the veterans and admit the error of my ways.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Brandname said:


> We haven't even given him a legitimate chance this year. Just a few minutes here or there.


WHAT?! We let him start like 3 games. And he did nothing. He missed almost every shot he took. And looked completely scared on the floor.

Dan Gibson was given the same opportunity and seized it. Showing that he is going to be a vital part of our future.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

remy23 said:


> ^ Yeah. If I could get an all-access, behind-the-scenes pass and see Ira Newble and David Wesley light the world on fire during practice and regularly putting Shannon Brown in his place, then I'd quickly change my tune, praise Coach Brown for staying with the veterans and admit the error of my ways.


I doubt Newble or Wesley have to light the world on fire to get past Brown. If he practices at all like he plays, then he's probably a bricklaying turnover machine in practice, and if he's going one on one against Newble, he's probably getting destroyed by Newble's strength and length.

Even if Brown played those two guys equal, what does that mean? Wesley can bring experience and leadership to the bench. Brown can fetch towels. If I'm going to have to choose between two guys who aren't going to play in the game anyways, then I would choose the one who can give me leadership in the huddle.

If Wesley is out there on the bench he and Snow can mentor to Dan Gibson.

Brown can't bring ****.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

The fact that he didn't play today was a disappointment but hardly enough to call him a bust. There are a ton of picks that were higher than Brown that have not produced yet. It's just way too early to be calling any of them busts.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> WHAT?! We let him start like 3 games. And he did nothing. He missed almost every shot he took. And looked completely scared on the floor.
> 
> Dan Gibson was given the same opportunity and seized it. Showing that he is going to be a vital part of our future.


um... 3 games isn't enough time at all.

If it was, we probably wouldn't have Anderson right now.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

I don't think that Brown was active today. The Cavs actually played 12 players and I'm pretty sure you can only have 12 active.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

The OUTLAW said:


> I don't think that Brown was active today. The Cavs actually played 12 players and I'm pretty sure you can only have 12 active.


I think you're probably right.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The OUTLAW said:


> The fact that he didn't play today was a disappointment but hardly enough to call him a bust. There are a ton of picks that were higher than Brown that have not produced yet. It's just way too early to be calling any of them busts.


 Agree, way to early to write him off but I really wish we went with 1) Sergio 2) Gibson draft combo I wanted :wink:

Sergio the pure point while Gibson shooter/defender would have been a great combo to build around Hughes in the backcourt


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

This is *WAY* too premature. Brown has shown enough flashes to warrant a longer look. If you recall he started slow in summer league and finished very well. Even in one of his starts I believe he scored 10pts in limited minutes. 

He hasn't progressed as quickly as you want for a 3-year college player, but you gotta give him time. Look at JR Smith, a 2nd rounder for him seems pretty lopsided - you gotta give young guys time.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> This is *WAY* too premature. Brown has shown enough flashes to warrant a longer look. If you recall he started slow in summer league and finished very well. Even in one of his starts I believe he scored 10pts in limited minutes.
> 
> He hasn't progressed as quickly as you want for a 3-year college player, but you gotta give him time. Look at JR Smith, a 2nd rounder for him seems pretty lopsided - you gotta give young guys time.


Yep, he scored 10 points in 13 minutes on 4/6 shooting.

It's a mistake to trade a young player because he hasn't played up to his potential a quarter of the way through his first season.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> I doubt Newble or Wesley have to light the world on fire to get past Brown. If he practices at all like he plays, then he's probably a bricklaying turnover machine in practice, and if he's going one on one against Newble, he's probably getting destroyed by Newble's strength and length.


And if Newble practices like anything he plays like, then he well... does nothing. So I'm going to ask you a pure question, from an honest basketball standpoint, what exactly are you sticking up for Newble on? Do you think he boxes out better, sets better screens, what? 



> Even if Brown played those two guys equal, what does that mean?


That if all things considered skill are equal, you then play the more athletic player for he gives what the other players give, yet has something they do not.



> Wesley can bring experience and leadership to the bench.


In the past Wesley brought leadership - he does not now. 



> Brown can fetch towels.


As can Newble and Wesley. 



> If I'm going to have to choose between two guys who aren't going to play in the game anyways, then I would choose the one who can give me leadership in the huddle.


The same leadership in a huddle that Newble, the guy the camera often catches looking away and daydreaming does? Then Shannon doesn't have to do much of anything to surpass that contribution.



> If Wesley is out there on the bench he and Snow can mentor to Dan Gibson.


Damon Jones would be a better mentor for Daniel Gibson. If anything, Wesley would be a better mentor to Brown.



> Brown can't bring ****.


Time will tell.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> WHAT?! We let him start like 3 games. And he did nothing. He missed almost every shot he took. And looked completely scared on the floor.


Unless this is pure sarcasm, you've just set your standard as 3 games for being ample time to judge a player's worth. This contradicts time tables that I've seen you use in the past when arguing for/against other players (time tables that extended longer than 3 games).


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Sure Brown started those games but he didn't exactly get consistent or extensive minutes. Might as well have brought him in for 5 minutes in the second. Just too early: he could be a bust but need to see him over the course of some time. He actually did pretty good in that last start as others have already posted


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

can you really be a bust in the mid 20's pick? With an already weak draft class?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

remy23 said:


> Unless this is pure sarcasm, you've just set your standard as 3 games for being ample time to judge a player's worth. This contradicts time tables that I've seen you use in the past when arguing for/against other players (time tables that extended longer than 3 games).


But he did NOTHING in 3 games. The best players try to seize the opportunities they get. Brown just wanted off the floor as quick as possible.

I just get tired of all the complaining that goes on about not playing a guy who hasn't proven anything in the NBA. Like he would somehow turn around our season or blossom into a superstar.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

You have to be patient, not everybody is ready from the get. he has the tools to be a very productive nba player. Snow and Damon wont be here forever but in the meantime he needs to just keep working. Shannon was also slow to come on as a college player as well. He just needs to familiarize himself with the nba game and gain confidence in his abilities.

Coach Brown needs to activate him, there is no reason newble and wesley should be active over him.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> But he did NOTHING in 3 games. The best players try to seize the opportunities they get. Brown just wanted off the floor as quick as possible.
> 
> I just get tired of all the complaining that goes on about not playing a guy who hasn't proven anything in the NBA. Like he would somehow turn around our season or blossom into a superstar.


Some players take entire seasons to get going. When given opportunities here and there, inconsistent time makes it hard for judging talent. It reminds me of people trying to judge Darko in Detroit despite the fact he was not seeing minutes every single night. Or it makes me think of countless other players as well. Saying a player is not good at the moment is one thing. That's entirely plausible. But saying a few games shuts the door on a player is beyond being premature. It reminds me of guys who go beyond being bold with opinions but try and be so bold, that they're overdoing it and trying to make people confuse their boldness with truth.

The goal isn't for Brown to be a superstar but rather a solid player. Which he is perfectly capable of doing. He needs more opportunities to fail and once that's settled, he can succeed.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> But he did NOTHING in 3 games. The best players try to seize the opportunities they get. Brown just wanted off the floor as quick as possible.
> 
> I just get tired of all the complaining that goes on about not playing a guy who hasn't proven anything in the NBA. Like he would somehow turn around our season or blossom into a superstar.


Well in one of the games, he had 10 points on 4/6 shooting in just 13 minutes.

Unless you expected him to have very good games in all 3 games, I wouldn't say he did *nothing*.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

This is why the D-League is a good thing. Send a guy like Brown to the D and let him learn the ropes and get his confidence up, while being able to play through mistakes.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> But he did NOTHING in 3 games. The best players try to seize the opportunities they get. Brown just wanted off the floor as quick as possible.
> 
> I just get tired of all the complaining that goes on about not playing a guy who hasn't proven anything in the NBA. Like he would somehow turn around our season or blossom into a superstar.


So you would be the type of ownerthat would dump a player like Gerrald Wallce after there rookie season? 

The way our guards above Shannon Brown are playing he might not deserve the minutes we are pushing for. Sasha a more proven player cant even break the rotation anymore. The only thing I get upset about is when Snow goes too the bench and then returns and we have a linupe with Snow,DJ,Gibson; those are the only times Id like too see Shannon or Sasha in the game. 

But I cant complain, Snow/DJ deserves his 25-30 minutes, and boobie getting his 10-15, there isnt much time with Larry back.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> So you would be the type of ownerthat would dump a player like Gerrald Wallce after there rookie season?


Hell I'd dump Wallace right now. In fact I did in my fantasy league. Dude is proving last year was something of a fluke.


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