# Antonio Davis suspension -- Too Much, Too Little or Just Right?



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...200306jan20,1,4527687.story?coll=chi-news-hed



> The NBA announced Thursday that fans should know they come to the games at their own risk, a riot can start at any time and no one should be surprised if large, angry men are wandering around them with evil intent.
> 
> At least that's the message I took from the slap-on-the wrist five-game suspension the NBA levied upon Knicks forward Antonio Davis--for you conspiracy theorists, also president of the players' association--for going into the stands late in the Bulls' Wednesday night overtime victory over the Knicks.
> 
> ...


Now I'm typically a law and order kind of guy, and I agree that citizens need to use the police and the courts for justice.

But I don't care who you are -- if you see your wife, or one of your kids, or someone like that nearby, and they appear to be potentially in danger of immediate harm, you have the right -- the obligation -- to go make sure that family member is alright, and is not going to come into harm. 

A stockbroker in a restaurant who sees some guy in his wife's face when he returns from the bathroom absolutely should hurry back to the table and make sure everything is ok. He doesn't have to run out to the street to flag down a squad car. And if he did, he'd likely be too late, if there really was a fight brewing between his wife and the agitated man.

If there was an actor on stage who saw his wife being bothered in the audience, and feared she may meet physical harm, I have no problem with that actor stopping the performance and going into the audience to make sure everything is cool. Nobody should be required to stand idly by when they reasonably believe there is danger present to a family member.

Just because Davis is a basketball player doesn't mean he should have to stay on the floor and hope his wife doesn't get slapped around before security manages to get there.

This wasn't a player going in the stands to confront a hecker. This wasn't an attack. Despite Sam's concerns, in the end, there wasn't a riot.

This isn't a declaration of war on the fans. This was a totally different situation than the Indiana and Detroit fiasco. In my opinion, 5 games was too much for a man going into the stands to determine if his wife was safe and left the stands without resorting to any violence.
And it doesn't matter if in the end Kendra started it. What Davis saw was a dude getting into her face, and he was justified in checking out the situation.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-spt-davis20.html



> ''We have made it plain to our players and our fans that players may not enter the spectator stands, no matter the provocation, and that violations of this policy will be treated with the utmost seriousness,'' said Stu Jackson, the NBA's senior vice president of basketball operations. ''We have concluded, however, that Antonio's actions were the result of his belief that his family members required his immediate assistance and have taken those mitigating circumstances into account in setting the length of the suspension.''
> 
> In a statement released after the game, Davis said: ''I witnessed my wife being threatened by a man that I learned later to be intoxicated. I saw him touch her, and I know I should not have acted the way I did, but I would have felt terrible if I didn't react. There was no time to call security. It happened too quickly.''
> 
> ...


I don't know what really happened obviously, but despite what the "anonymous fan" has said, backing Axelrod, the kid sure strikes me as a weasel, and his comments have a real Eddie Haskell quality to them.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*

So do a bunch of New York Columnists (although describing them as having their panties in a bunch might be a bit much):

Mike lupica: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/384345p-326223c.html



> Of course the original thought was to say that any husband, or father, would have reacted as Davis did, even though it is hard to believe that he thought his wife was in such peril that there was no time to ask security to contain the situation. But look at this from David Stern's point of view: Even after Auburn Hills, the first time one of his guys thinks he is justified in going up into the stands, he does.
> 
> And nobody stops him.
> 
> ...



http://www.northjersey.com/page.php...lRUV5eTY4NjI5NTQmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2



> We only know that common sense says Davis was doing the right thing.
> 
> "As president of the [NBA players'] union ... and understanding the game of basketball and what the effects of something like this may have, I understand that I did break a rule," Davis said Thursday on "The James Brown Show" on Sporting News Radio.
> 
> ...


And Peter Vecsey didn't like it either, but I don't have a link for that.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*

http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick20.html



> The man in question, now identified as 22-year-old Michael Axelrod, son of a prominent Chicago political consultant, says he was not drunk, was not threatening anyone, and was, in fact, attacked by Kendra Davis, who supposedly tried to scratch him after he protested a call.
> 
> The one thing that is certain is that by going into the stands, Davis, who is the president of the NBA players association, was being stupid and a fool.
> 
> ...



Let me ask this: What if?

What if Davis didn't go into the stands?

What if this Axelrod guy really did pose a threat?

What if he knocked Kendra cold, while AD watched helplessly from 20 feet away, because of the unfortunate circumstance he happened to be wearing shorts and a tank top at the time?

What would Stu Jackson and David Stern have to say to Antonio and Kendra then?

Sorry?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*

From everything I have seen & heard it sounds like AD's wife was the one who was the threat!


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## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*

I have to agree with Sam Smith here and I rarely do. Stern needed to continue to set a precedent and instead he buckeled. 

The only reason a fight didn't break out was because it was Antonio Davis. If it was one of the other Knick players who did that, you can bet something would have gone down. And then you would have had another full scale fight with kids right in the middle of it. What Davis did was insanely stupid and he was actually the one who put his kids and wife at risk. If Davis had decided to start fighting, there would have been no way to get his kids and wife out of their. They would have been caught right in the middle. 

Standing up for your wife and kids is great and all, but common sense is even better. Unfortunately that is something that seems to be rapidly disapearing in society. If you want to take matters in to your own hands, be prepared for the consequences. Davis got lucky, his kids didn't get hurt, but the next time this happens the player might not be so lucky. At the moment that Davis ran into the stands his mindset was no different than the drunks. He was thinking clearly at all, and when your kids are involved you have to think.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Now I'm typically a law and order kind of guy, and I agree that citizens need to use the police and the courts for justice.
> 
> But I don't care who you are -- if you see your wife, or one of your kids, or someone like that nearby, and they appear to be potentially in danger of immediate harm, you have the right -- the obligation -- to go make sure that family member is alright, and is not going to come into harm.
> 
> ...


I think there is a big difference between a stockbroker's family getting hassled in a restaurant and player's family getting hassled in a sports arena. And there's a difference between a patron in a restaurant-- who is just another person amongst many-- and a professional athlete during a sporting event.

Antonio Davis didn't have to "run out to the street and flag down a squad car". Unlike a restaurant, all sports arenas have on-site security teams. All Davis had to do was alert a courtside security person-- and there are numerous security people courtside-- and I guarantee it would have been on the radio of every security person in the building and you would have seen a swarm of security all over the situation immediately. I believe NBA security people take very seriously requests by players (especially after the Palace brawl). By all accounts, the UC security people were on the scene even before Davis got there.

The problem with a player taking matters into his own hands and going into the stands is it had a greater chance of escalating the situation (especially if it is a visiting player) than it does diffusing it. All it takes is one drunk idiot to push someone or throw a punch and the result can very easily be what we saw in Detroit.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*

It's time to make some drastic changes in the NBA.

-- Starting immediately, impenetrable and inescapable wire cages should be erected around all NBA courts, sidelines, and bench areas. If possible, the cages should be integrated with one-way glass allowing the fans to see in, but preventing the players from seeing out.

-- Because there is ample evidence to suggest that NBA players are not capable of successfully and safely being a part of modern society, each NBA team shall be responsible for constructing a correctional-style dormitory to permanently house its players, with enough additional room to house a visiting team.

-- All team travel shall be conducted on "Con-Air" outfitted aircraft and buses chartered from local departments of correction. 

-- Every 60 days, an NBA player selected at random will be executed by lethal injection at 10:00 Eastern Time, with the execution to be broadcast live on NBA-TV, hosted by Bruce Beck and Gail Goodrich, with Rick Kamla providing fantasy highlights and analysis. While this seems harsh, it'll go a long way toward keeping the players in line.
________________

Sorry for the absurd digression, but these columns are insane. This wasn't anything like the Riot of Auburn Hills (which was wildly and fearfully overreacted to to begin with). AD didn't know what was happening to his wife, and his kids were also in the area (something that's been totally glossed over). AD saw, out of the corner of his eye, his wife involved in a scuffle with a strange man. AD calmly, and not at all menacingly or with any lack of control, entered the stands, assessed the situation, determined that everyone was okay, and returned to the bench. End of story.

Kendra's priors need to be taken into account, but I find her story just as plausible as Axelrod's or the "eyewitnesses". Too many people think a ticket near the sidelines is a license to say whatever they want to whomever they want. Why aren't the pundits writing about that? After all, it happens at every single game in the NBA. 

I have no sympathy for Axelrod's getting confronted for talking a bunch of mess to an NBA player's wife. I have no sympathy for Kendra's wild overreaction. I have a ton of sympathy for AD protecting his family. I have sympathy for Stu Jackson and his trying to do the right thing. Five games doesn't fit the crime, but I understand why it had to be that way. But to say that five games wasn't anywhere near enough? That's fearful and fretful kooky talk.


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## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



ScottMay said:


> AD saw, out of the corner of his eye, his wife involved in a scuffle with a strange man. AD calmly, and not at all menacingly or with any lack of control, entered the stands, assessed the situation, determined that everyone was okay, and returned to the bench. End of story.


That is definitely a story you came up with.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



ScottMay said:


> Kendra's priors need to be taken into account, but I find her story just as plausible as Axelrod's or the "eyewitnesses". Too many people think a ticket near the sidelines is a license to say whatever they want to whomever they want. Why aren't the pundits writing about that? After all, it happens at every single game in the NBA.


Agreed. As far as her story, she has attended 100s of ballgames where AD has not had to jump into the stands. Seems more reasonable that level of vugarity set her off.



ScottMay said:


> I have no sympathy for Axelrod's getting confronted for talking a bunch of mess to an NBA player's wife. I have no sympathy for Kendra's wild overreaction. I have a ton of sympathy for AD protecting his family. I have sympathy for Stu Jackson and his trying to do the right thing. Five games doesn't fit the crime, but I understand why it had to be that way. But to say that five games wasn't anywhere near enough? That's fearful and fretful kooky talk.


Agree 100%


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*

1. Short of anything destroying the family environment, I think a fan should be allowed to say/yell whatever they want. Obviously, however, it seems sports crowds are increasingly profanity-laden.

2. Everything I read/see seems to indicate it was Kendra Davis, not Axelrod, who was at fault here. Additionally, AD's characterization of the guy as "intoxicated" was classless. How would AD know?

3. If the situation appeared to AD that his wife was in danger, any reasonable husband would go up and protect his family. I'm cool with the way he handled it.

4. There are rules about this stuff. AD broke them. He is getting a 5 game suspension, not a 30 game one. I would have been good with 1-2 games. There needs to be a prohibition for players to enter the stands. I don't think just because AD's motives were good that he should be excused entirely. However, it is important to keep in mind that this wasn't an Artest/Jackson situation. That's why the suspension was comparatively light.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



Qwst25 said:


> That is definitely a story you came up with.


"Story?" Nope, that's just what I saw on my TV. Maybe yours showed something different.



> As he said, "I witnessed my wife being threatened by a man." A man he thought was intoxicated. A man who appeared to be getting ignorant with the wrong man's wife. Davis had no idea who this man was or what his intentions were.
> 
> So once he, as his coach Larry Brown said, "saw his wife falling back," Davis went 10 rows up into the stands to "evaluate" the situation -- cool, calm and Michael Clarke Duncan-like.
> Seconds later, order restored. Drama done. Davis was escorted to the court, his family to NBA security. No punches thrown, no riot incited, no beer wasted, no words used to be taken out of context.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/060119



> Davis remained calm and walked away after security arrived, and the referees ejected him after he returned to the bench.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=2298108



> Davis did not throw a punch or visibly threaten anyone during the incident, which occurred late in the Knicks' overtime loss to the Chicago Bulls on Wednesday. He entered the stands during a timeout when he saw his wife, Kendra, in an apparent altercation with a fan.
> 
> The entire episode lasted just over 30 seconds, from the time Davis leapt over the press table and walked seven rows up, to the time he returned to the bench. He was in the vicinity of his wife, their two children and several surprised fans for about 13 seconds. He was ejected from the game for his excursion.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/20/sports/basketball/20davis.html



> I'm sorry. I don't care what the rules are, or what awful precedent was established last season. If I instantaneously processed the belief that my wife and children were in danger, there wouldn't be enough games to be suspended from to keep me away.
> 
> At least I'd like to believe that I wouldn't just stand there and politely say, "Excuse me, David Stern will be very upset if I personally look into this matter, so will someone please fetch the security guard who is picking his nose in Section 22 to find out why that gentleman seems to have his mitts on my wife?"
> 
> ...


http://select.nytimes.com/2006/01/20/sports/basketball/20araton.html

What did you see, Qwst25?


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



jnrjr79 said:


> 2. Everything I read/see seems to indicate it was Kendra Davis, not Axelrod, who was at fault here. Additionally, AD's characterization of the guy as "intoxicated" was classless. How would AD know?


Davis didn't even talk to Axelrod in the stands. Would anyone even know the guy's name if Axelrod didn't make his grab for 15 minutes of fame and call a lawyer and the press.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



jnrjr79 said:


> 1. Short of anything destroying the family environment, I think a fan should be allowed to say/yell whatever they want. Obviously, however, it seems sports crowds are increasingly profanity-laden.


Wow, even racial slurs? (I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it happens at a lot of NBA games.)



> 2. Everything I read/see seems to indicate it was Kendra Davis, not Axelrod, who was at fault here. Additionally, AD's characterization of the guy as "intoxicated" was classless. How would AD know?


The truth'll come out about this one way or another, and it boils down to opinion. If you think that the price of an NBA ticket allows the buyer carte blanche to scream personal attacks at a player's family for two hours, you'll feel it's Kendra's fault. If you think that there's a way to be a fan and support the team without making the experience uncomfortable for others in attendance, you'll feel that Axelrod is as much to blame as anyone.[/quote]



> 4. There are rules about this stuff. AD broke them. He is getting a 5 game suspension, not a 30 game one. I would have been good with 1-2 games. There needs to be a prohibition for players to enter the stands. I don't think just because AD's motives were good that he should be excused entirely. However, it is important to keep in mind that this wasn't an Artest/Jackson situation. That's why the suspension was comparatively light.


I think 1-2 games would have been more appropriate, especially (as I said in another thread) when five games is what Keyon Dooling got for repeatedly cheap-shotting Ray Allen during a game, finally tripping him and drawing him into a fight in which Dooling swung on Allen and the melee spilled into the front two rows, and afterwards, after they'd been separated, came after Allen yet again. Or maybe five games is appropriate for Davis and Dooling should have gotten 20 games. Whatever the case, those are far from equal "crimes".

However, I can live with five games. It's the shrill, fearful-middle-aged-white-guy commentary suggesting that Davis should have gotten more than that that I have a problem with.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



ScottMay said:


> It's time to make some drastic changes in the NBA.
> 
> -- Starting immediately, impenetrable and inescapable wire cages should be erected around all NBA courts, sidelines, and bench areas. If possible, the cages should be integrated with one-way glass allowing the fans to see in, but preventing the players from seeing out.
> 
> ...



How about "collars of obedience"










Like in the old Star Trek episode "The Gamesters of Triskelion"


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*

Greg Anthony said this on PBS Newshour in late 2004:



> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sports/july-dec04/brawl_11-22.html
> 
> GREG ANTHONY: Well, and I think that's getting at the very essence of this issue here. Again, the players acted irresponsibly. They will be dealt with accordingly, and obviously the union as well as attorneys will make appeals on their behalf. But there also, as I said earlier, there has to be some culpability on the part of the fans in terms of their behavior not being responsible. And I will make this point:
> 
> *As a professional athlete, I have been subjected to racial slurs out on the court while I'm playing* and I ask you, if you think about America, if someone were to call you by racial slurs to your face in the workplace, spit on you or what have you, that person would hopefully be fired. They definitely would be open to civil and criminal charges, yet for some reason, *this type of subjectivity towards players is acceptable as commonplace* and it shouldn't surprise people at some point, someone who may be emotionally not being fully in control could, in essence, snap, and I think that's what you had happen. And I think alcohol played a role in this. There's no question in my mind that that is also the case.


Anthony said this on CNN at about the same time:



> http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0411/22/pzn.01.html
> 
> ANTHONY: Why is it OK for a sport that has predominantly black athletes to make a lot of money when it generates a lot of money and it's not for, say, people who work in television or make movies or things of that nature to make a lot of money? The same conclusions aren't drawn there.
> 
> ...


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## grace (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



ace20004u said:


> From everything I have seen & heard it sounds like AD's wife was the one who was the threat!


So maybe the real reason AD went into the stands was to keep his wife from getting thrown in jail. I don't have a problem with that reason either.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



ScottMay said:


> The truth'll come out about this one way or another, and it boils down to opinion. If you think that the price of an NBA ticket allows the buyer carte blanche to scream personal attacks at a player's family for two hours, you'll feel it's Kendra's fault. If you think that there's a way to be a fan and support the team without making the experience uncomfortable for others in attendance, you'll feel that Axelrod is as much to blame as anyone.



How do you even know that is what transpired prior to this whole mess? Who's making stuff up now? You have not one shred of ANY evidence of either side of this incident and yet you just go off and suggest that Axelrod was hurling racial slurs at Davis' family for two hours???!!?? I've hear/read of NOTHING that suggests this was the case. I'm guessing that your TV has some sort of special attachement that allows you access to actions and conversations of every fan in that stands at all times?

You want to state your case - fine. Stop making things up. You call Qwest on this and then you go ahead and manufacture your own evidence which has absolutly no basis in reality. Classic.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



fl_flash said:


> How do you even know that is what transpired prior to this whole mess? Who's making stuff up now? You have not one shred of ANY evidence of either side of this incident and yet you just go off and suggest that Axelrod was hurling racial slurs at Davis' family for two hours???!!?? I've hear/read of NOTHING that suggests this was the case. I'm guessing that your TV has some sort of special attachement that allows you access to actions and conversations of every fan in that stands at all times?
> 
> You want to state your case - fine. Stop making things up. You call Qwest on this and then you go ahead and manufacture your own evidence which has absolutly no basis in reality. Classic.


Can you point out where I suggested Axelrod was hurling racial slurs?

Yikes.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I edited the thread title, since much to my surprise, there is a lot more disparity in the opinions about the suspension than I imagined when I first posted the article.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



Qwst25 said:


> I have to agree with Sam Smith here and I rarely do. Stern needed to continue to set a precedent and instead he buckeled.
> 
> The only reason a fight didn't break out was because it was Antonio Davis. If it was one of the other Knick players who did that, you can bet something would have gone down. And then you would have had another full scale fight with kids right in the middle of it. What Davis did was insanely stupid and he was actually the one who put his kids and wife at risk. If Davis had decided to start fighting, there would have been no way to get his kids and wife out of their. They would have been caught right in the middle.
> 
> Standing up for your wife and kids is great and all, but common sense is even better. Unfortunately that is something that seems to be rapidly disapearing in society. If you want to take matters in to your own hands, be prepared for the consequences. Davis got lucky, his kids didn't get hurt, but the next time this happens the player might not be so lucky. At the moment that Davis ran into the stands his mindset was no different than the drunks. He was thinking clearly at all, and when your kids are involved you have to think.


How did he get lucky ? Its like you assume he went into the stands to fight. You cant deal on what MIGHT happen as a father and Husband family comes first. Your talking in IF's but I can throw a few ifs of my own .

What IF the AD does nothing and the fans strike his wife ?

What if the surrounding fans gange tackle here and beat her down? 

The what ifs can go on for ever in both directions ?

A man saw his wife in trouble and he went to go check it out. This isnt something that happened in the 300 section but 7-10 rows from the court. 

Luck has nothing to do with it because it really wasnt that big of a deal to begin with ?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



ScottMay said:


> It's time to make some drastic changes in the NBA.
> 
> -- Starting immediately, impenetrable and inescapable wire cages should be erected around all NBA courts, sidelines, and bench areas. If possible, the cages should be integrated with one-way glass allowing the fans to see in, but preventing the players from seeing out.
> 
> ...


Your humorous digression aside, honestly I'm more scared for the players than I am the fans. My greatest sports fear is that one of these days, some kook is going to come to the game with a cleverly concealed gun, kill one of the athletes during his game -- in essence trading his own life or at least committing to life in prison in order to instill a great deal of chaos in our society -- and in the process really altering our society.

Think about it. Athletes would be scared to play all across the country. Ticket sales would drop dramatically. Famous Broadway actors might even take a hint and become uncomfortable with their lack of protection. I think this one act would actually have a substantial and terrible impact on society.

And thus, of course, I hope it never happens. Basically, the social contract between athletes and fans has worked pretty well in America for a long time.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

this link was posted already in the knick postgame thread.

here is a different POV. from a fan who was there and saw the whole thing.

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/nba/a-differing-view-on-davis-trip-into-the-stands-149534.php



> I’m an ex-New Yorker living in Chicago and I was at the Bulls game last night. I wanted to share a different perspective on what happened because what is being reported is not at all accurate. I was sitting less than 10 feet from Kendra Davis and saw the whole thing.
> 
> *The section of seats is filled with longtime season ticketholders so there are no “troublemakers” who sit there. Given that it was Eddy Curry’s first game back in Chicago since being traded, most of the seats in the section were filled by the ticketholders themselves.
> 
> ...



don't dismiss it just cause it's on deadspin. antonio davis, from the split second information he had saw a situation involving his wife and he went up there to rightfully check on her safety. 

yeah, only problem is, kendra was the one who was being abusive and was the one who should have been escorted out. 

the guy was not shouting obscenities at her, in fact she was the one who left HER SEAT to confront the fan. 

i think stern wussed out. i think it should have been like 15 games. 

and it is a RARE day when i don't take the side of the woman in the story. but i'm sorry, she was out of line. way out of line.

where is the rule that protect paying fans from abusive nba players wives!?


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Short and sweet:

(1) Who started what in the stands is irrelevent since AD couldn't have known one way or another from his vantage point, and his vantage point is the only one relevent to a discussion of his suspension.

(2) AD went to protect his wife *and family*. I think the family part is being overlooked by those ragging (perhaps rightly so) on Kendra Davis. Davis' kids were up there. I might let my wife start some ****, and then let her take a little verbal **** if she starts it (its never happened since my wife is as nice as they come, but I'm just saying I don't know how I'd react if it stayed a verbal spat) but if my boy is around, I'd be there in a ****ing hearbeat to make sure he didn't get in the middle of it. Point being, AD did the right thing, the honorable thing.

(3) The NBA did the right thing in suspending given the big picture of the issue. There are many situations in which a player will be right to enter the stands. But most of those situations should still end in a suspension. This was one of them.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

kendra davis was setting a wonderful example for her children, wasn't she?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Short and sweet:
> 
> (1) Who started what in the stands is irrelevent since AD couldn't have known one way or another from his vantage point, and his vantage point is the only one relevent to a discussion of his suspension.
> 
> ...


I agree completely. I think a token suspension was in order, but 5 games was too much, considering the circumstances.

Here is another hypothetical. What if he saw Kendra collapse of an apparent heart attack? Should he remain on the court? Would it be OK for him to go up and start CPR until emergency help arrives?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



Darius Miles Davis said:


> Your humorous digression aside, honestly I'm more scared for the players than I am the fans. My greatest sports fear is that one of these days, some kook is going to come to the game with a cleverly concealed gun, kill one of the athletes during his game -- in essence trading his own life or at least committing to life in prison in order to instill a great deal of chaos in our society -- and in the process really altering our society.
> 
> Think about it. Athletes would be scared to play all across the country. Ticket sales would drop dramatically. Famous Broadway actors might even take a hint and become uncomfortable with their lack of protection. I think this one act would actually have a substantial and terrible impact on society.
> 
> And thus, of course, I hope it never happens. Basically, the social contract between athletes and fans has worked pretty well in America for a long time.


Yeah, I think about that quite a bit. 

People complained about the post-9/11 security at the Garden, but I welcomed it, and not because I was worried about terrorism. It was because I always felt it'd be too easy to hurt a player if that's what someone had his mind set on doing.

I hope and pray it never happens, but it's basically just dumb luck that it hasn't. The same way it's just dumb luck that an opposing rightfielder at Yankee Stadium hasn't been hit in the head and blinded or maimed by a coin, battery, or cell phone thrown from the upper deck. Or that an NBA player hasn't been fed up from a barrage of racial insults during a game and gone into the stands intent on hurting someone. And so on.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> kendra davis was setting a wonderful example for her children, wasn't she?


Certainly not. Early indications suggest that she is certifiable *****. 

My point is simply that her conduct could not be known to Davis and is therefore irrelevent to a discussion of his suspension. Moreover, even if he did know, his conduct was still appropriate given the presence of his children. Having a psycho wife doesn't negate a father's obligation to protect his children from the potential ramifications of wife's conduct towards others.

Kendra Davis' issues are different and will evidently be dealt with through litigation (I have a post, posted this morning, in the Knicks post game thread about the merit of a defamation claim against Davis if anyone is interested in the law part of it).


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> this link was posted already in the knick postgame thread.
> 
> here is a different POV. from a fan who was there and saw the whole thing.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I simply don't buy the fact that Bald Privileged Guy was just golly-gee honest-to-goodness rooting for his Bulls and got randomly attacked by drunken Scorpion Woman.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> I agree completely. I think a token suspension was in order, but 5 games was too much, considering the circumstances.
> 
> Here is another hypothetical. What if he saw Kendra collapse of an apparent heart attack? Should he remain on the court? Would it be OK for him to go up and start CPR until emergency help arrives?


First, I consider the 5 game suspension to be a token suspension. I think its a good minimum suspension for a player entering the stands.

Second, when I wrote that "*most* of those situations" should end in a suspension, the reason for that qualification was the health-related emergent hypothetical that you described.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



ScottMay said:


> Wow, even racial slurs? (I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it happens at a lot of NBA games.)



I said I'd be comfortable with the Bulls prohibiting people from screaming anything that would destroy the family environment. To me, this would obviously cover racial slurs, right?


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



jnrjr79 said:


> I said I'd be comfortable with the Bulls prohibiting people from screaming anything that would destroy the family environment. To me, this would obviously cover racial slurs, right?


Just being clear -- the most offensive thing I've ever heard at a baseball game came from a guy who was with his wife and three children.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



jnrjr79 said:


> I said I'd be comfortable with the Bulls prohibiting people from screaming anything that would destroy the family environment. To me, this would obviously cover racial slurs, right?


Are you suggesting that bigotry isn't an ingredient to a healthy recipe for family fun?


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

ScottMay said:


> Sorry, I simply don't buy the fact that Bald Privileged Guy was just golly-gee honest-to-goodness rooting for his Bulls and got randomly attacked by drunken Scorpion Woman.


It seems to be if Scorpion Woman had a track record for getting into verbal altercations in the stands, and we've got no information on any bad acts from Axelrod in the past, then your position is incorrect. It seems to me it's at least as likely that it was Davis' fault as it is that it was Axelrod's. 

I don't think that your "golly gee" portrayal of the fan is correct, either. It seems like it's generally accepted that he was screaming strongly in protest to the Hinrich foul call. I think we can all assume he tossed out some expletives. 

Also, I don't think many people are bringing up the idea that maybe _both_ persons were in the wrong. Just a thought.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



Ron Cey said:


> Are you suggesting that bigotry isn't an ingredient to a healthy recipe for family fun?



Well, it clearly depends on the group you are attacking.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Also, I don't think many people are bringing up the idea that maybe _both_ persons were in the wrong. Just a thought.


I did bring up that idea, and it's exactly what I believe happened in this case.



ScottMay said:


> I have no sympathy for Axelrod's getting confronted for talking a bunch of mess to an NBA player's wife. I have no sympathy for Kendra's wild overreaction. I have a ton of sympathy for AD protecting his family. I have sympathy for Stu Jackson and his trying to do the right thing. Five games doesn't fit the crime, but I understand why it had to be that way.


My issues here, in no particular order, are with certain members of the media clamoring for a longer suspension for AD, Bald Privileged Guy's lawsuit, and the unwillingness of the NBA and the media to meaningfully address the issue of fan conduct.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

ScottMay said:


> I did bring up that idea, and it's exactly what I believe happened in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> My issues here, in no particular order, are with certain members of the media clamoring for a longer suspension for AD, Bald Privileged Guy's lawsuit, and the unwillingness of the NBA and the media to meaningfully address the issue of fan conduct.


I am largely in agreement.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

I have mixed feelings about the lawsuit. Its kind of hard to appreciate how embarrassing the situation was for him. I could see a fan in his situation, subjectively, being very affected by what happened (if, in fact, he didn't really do anything wrong and was sober as a judge like he claims).

It was a public spectacle, on local and national television and radio, and in front of numerous other season ticket holders that I'm certain he has come to know. 

If I was in his shoes, I can't really say that I wouldn't take legal action myself. Its hard to judge what its like to be involved in something like that. 

The only part I don't like about it is having (or allowing) his lawyer make a public statement that he is sueing, and more, that he's sueing for a "a million dollars". That is scummy, for lack of a better word.


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## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: Sam Smith has his panties in a bunch about the "light" AD suspension*



TRUTHHURTS said:


> How did he get lucky ? Its like you assume he went into the stands to fight. You cant deal on what MIGHT happen as a father and Husband family comes first. Your talking in IF's but I can throw a few ifs of my own .
> 
> What IF the AD does nothing and the fans strike his wife ?
> 
> What if the surrounding fans gange tackle here and beat her down?


Then the fans would have been arrested. It's that simple. The problem is that AD came very close to escalating the situation. Him running into the stands doesn't help at all. It only makes the situation more volatile. Let security do their job. 

I'm not assuming that AD went up there to fight, but we all no he didn't go up their to make some new friends. AD didn't casualy stroll up to the seats with a smile on his face. This is about setting a precedent and making sure something like this never happens again. When a player runs into the stands the chances of things getting out of control increases significantly. When those fans saw AD running toward them, many of them had to have been thinking that a fight was about to start. Which means any wrong move could have triggered a fight, it doesn't matter if it wasn't AD's initial intention. And as I said before his kids would have been trapped in the middle of it.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

love hurts, indeed.

i have absolutely no sympathy for AD or his crazy wife. sorry.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Funny thing is, that Axelrod primarily supports a charity that is for protecting women and children from abuse. He said he'd drop the lawsuit if Davis' apoligizes and retracts his comments, and donates to the charity he supports.

Nothing was going to happen, especially when you take into account that a security guard was already over there!


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## thebullybully (Jan 26, 2005)

Gotta agree with mizenkay on this one. I used to work in a club that for two years was a three or four night a week NBA player hotspot. For the most part, the players themselves were fun, polite, and a pleasure to have around, but with the exception of Gary Payton's wife and Mitch Richmond's wife, all the rest of the wives have a high degree of CED (Celebrity Entitlement Disorder.)

I have no experience with wives from other professional leagues, so this only applies to NBA wives, but they seem to misunderstand that regular people don't know who they are, and even if I did know who they are, I'm still not going to break the law to serve them more alcohol than I am allowed to. I have experienced the NBA wife finger in my face, and it sucks.

Gary Payton's wife is as nice as any one person can ever be, though.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Wow lots of opinions here. Let me state that if any of you go through your computer screen, us Mods will discipline you.


All kidding aside. The more the story comes out, the more it appears to be Kendra Davis' fault. I have seen video where she is in a tirade and putting her hands on Axelrod. Also, he is clearly motioning for security to get the raving lunatic out of his face. I wasn't there, so I'll wait for the info to sort itself out.

Now, Davis is suspended five games and deserved every game of it. If you don't in-force the rules in this situation (five games is not a lot in the NBA and he isn't Lebron or Kobe). He is the head of the players association and knows the rules better than any player. 

But here's who I absolutely blame 100 % (though Kendra is rising on that chart)....

Why don't NBA teams have a section or Box set aside for families of the players for protection. While Axelrod doesn't appear to have done anything wrong, it's easy to imagine that it can and probably will happen. If the teams had their own security (two guards protecting one section of seats) than you could feel more secure. I can't fathom that the teams (I don't care about season ticket sales, etc...) block out 40-100 seats for the opposing team. If you're sitting elsewhere, you're on your own.

As I mentioned, I have sat in a few dirrent arenas with family memebrs of a few NBA teams. Stuff is said on all sides. It only takes one idiot to make it an incident. The players receive tickets to the game anyway fromt he home team. Just sit them together and there isn't a problem. Yeah, I know uncles, friends etc won't fit there......but let the cling ons fend for themselves and utilize the stadium security.

Quick update - Axelrod is about to be on the Dan Patirck Show on ESPN radio


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

_ Dear Mr. and Mrs. Davis,

As you know, I represent Mike Axelrod relative to the incident which
occurred Wednesday evening at the United Center during the game between the
Chicago Bulls and the New York Knicks.

Like all Bulls fans, Mike had the sole intent of enjoying the Bulls game
and did not want or expect to be harassed or touched. More importantly,
however, he did not want to be accused later of "being intoxicated" or
inappropriately touching Mrs. Davis, when this is not true, and which has been
corroborated by several witnesses and videotapes of the event.

It is for this reason that Mike felt that he had to clear his name and
state his version of the incident to the media. No fan, who is mindfully
watching a game, would like to have his name tarnished to his family, friends
and the public, with statements which are untrue and defamatory. No fan wants
to be intimidated while watching a basketball game.

Mike and the Axelrod family respect your skills as an athlete and share
your love and passion for the game of basketball. They would rather move on
from this incident, as I am sure you and your family would prefer.

*It is with this in mind, that we make the offer to resolve any differences
without the filing of a lawsuit, if you would issue a public apology, making
it clear that Mike was not intoxicated and did not inappropriately touch
anyone. We would also ask that you make a donation to an agreed upon charity
that advocates against violence toward women and children.*

I am hopeful that you will forward this on to your attorney, or
spokesperson, and the Axelrod family is hopeful that this offer of resolution
can put an end to the matter.

We would think that this will send a positive message and that all fans
and players can have a civil and respectful relationship.

Sincerely,
Jay Paul Deratany_



http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-20-2006/0004264435&EDATE=



seems entirely reasonable to miz.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I don't know why, but I had to.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Good letter. Far better than publicly stating your intent to sue them for "one million dollars". Yeesh. I still can't get over how scummy that is.

Bearing in mind, of course, that I don't have a problem with the idea of a lawsuit here. I just don't like the way it was addressed.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

jnrjr79 said:


> I don't know why, but I had to.


I appreciate your restraint in selecting a photograph representative of the syllable "rod".


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

I Just heard this guy on Dan Patrick's show. I heard other "fans in the section" describe what they saw. Seen the video of her interaction with Axelrod.

Without the benefit of a trial and judge and jury. She's at fault.


Can we ban her from the arena?

BTW, FWIW, the guy finished the interview by saying "I still wish Antonio Davis was one the Bulls." I love it. He's a season ticket holder. He seems respectable. Kendra is a confirmed nut. Judgement - for Axelrod.

I think the next time the Knicks are in town, we should chant "AXELROD, AXELROD!"


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

lol. axelrod just now on dan patrick's show said he wishes AD was still on the bulls.

the AP took the "million dollars" and just ran with it. 

he wants nothing more than to clear his name.

perfectly reasonable.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I have mixed feelings about the lawsuit. Its kind of hard to appreciate how embarrassing the situation was for him. I could see a fan in his situation, subjectively, being very affected by what happened (if, in fact, he didn't really do anything wrong and was sober as a judge like he claims).
> 
> It was a public spectacle, on local and national television and radio, and in front of numerous other season ticket holders that I'm certain he has come to know.
> 
> ...


What "damage" was done to this fellow?

If all he wants is an apology, AD should just do it and move on. It's not worth a couple days of his time to waste talking to lawyers.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Offcourt melodrama aside, I hope this incident hasn't jeprodized the Bulls chances at signing Davis next year. He looked great in the NY game. I know he's getting older, but right now he's at least as good or better than any of our front line. He obviously keeps himself in good condition, and should be good for limited minutes for a couple more years.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Thought y'all would like to hear this interview.... 

http://www.670thescore.com/includes/news_items/1/683/michaelaxelrod.mp3


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

chifaninca said:


> I Just heard this guy on Dan Patrick's show. I heard other "fans in the section" describe what they saw. Seen the video of her interaction with Axelrod.
> 
> Without the benefit of a trial and judge and jury. She's at fault.


Unfortunately, we don't have a reliable account of what Axelrod said in the general direction of Kendra Davis in the roughly 150 minutes or so prior to the incident. 

(Yes, I'm well aware of the "eyewitnesses," but it's pretty hard for me to believe that those folks could pay attention to a hotly contested basketball game in a loud arena and faithfully remember every word that crossed Axelrod's lips.)

I'm glad Axelrod's proposing to drop the lawsuit, but it's too bad he's lying about the provenance of the $1 million figure. That came straight from his lawyer.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> What "damage" was done to this fellow?
> 
> If all he wants is an apology, AD should just do it and move on. It's not worth a couple days of his time to waste talking to lawyers.


Defamation damages are based on humiliation, emotional impact, and the degradation of one's reputation. This event is hugely public. 

If he wants an apology, and AD accepts that Axelrod was in fact sober and did not assault Kendra Davis, then Davis should apologize. If not, then Davis shouldn't apologize. It would humiliate his wife and his family to do so falsely.

Then, since he'd be being sued, he'd be well-served in "wasting" his time "talking" to lawyers.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Thought y'all would like to hear this interview....
> 
> http://www.670thescore.com/includes/news_items/1/683/michaelaxelrod.mp3


I'm shocked -- absolutely shocked -- that Mike North and Mike North's listeners would side with Michael Axelrod.

I'm going to need a few minutes to gather my thoughts.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I'm shocked -- absolutely shocked -- that Mike North and Mike North's listeners would side with Michael Axelrod.
> 
> I'm going to need a few minutes to gather my thoughts.


LOL. Yah, you should not listen to this on your ride home on your mp3 player... you may drive off the road in shock!


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Scott are you Kendra's shopping buddy?


Come on. Everyone involved in the incident is pointing at Kendra and you're in denial.

Hell, yesterday on the radio, Anotnio was claiming that Axelrod threw a punch!!!!!! He was Drunk!! 

Seriously, when you and Kendra finish tea today, tell her to lighten up. 

I'd take Antonio back, but not if it meant having to listen to Kendra every game.

Scott.........Can we start a "Kendra's A Wash Thread"?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

chifaninca said:


> Scott are you Kendra's shopping buddy?
> 
> 
> Come on. Everyone involved in the incident is pointing at Kendra and you're in denial.
> ...


I have not ever suggested that Kendra wasn't in the wrong here -- she clearly, unqualifiedly, and obviously was.

My point is that it's extremely likely Michael Axelrod was in the wrong as well. I'm sorry I don't buy the assertion that she attacked him out of the blue, or that all he said was "That's a terrible call!" (at least I think that's what he mumbled and stammered on the Mike North show).


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> I'm shocked -- absolutely shocked -- that Mike North and Mike North's listeners would side with Michael Axelrod.
> 
> I'm going to need a few minutes to gather my thoughts.


Why am I not shocked that you are absolutely schocked?

Joke aside, for the record I don't balming AD for entering the stand. ALthough it was the best course of action, when you think your wife in soem kind of danger, you don't always go with the logical and best course of action? 

Problems is that once Ad entered into the stands, nobody is in control and the whoel situation and it could easily become disastrous. Under the circumstances, everything came out the very possible way and it could have been total disaster.

after AD crossed the invisible line, the thing came out this way only because

1. It was AD, who most of fan in Chicago loved and respected as a player.
2. AD had entered into the stand very calmly and approached the whole pack the same manner.
3. Once he got there, everything settled down rather quickly.
4. And no stupid fan threw or yell anyting at that points.
5. AD didn't say or act in any provocative way while in the stand.

If any of these didn't happened, we could have had another Ron Fiasco very easily.

So NBA sure can understand AD's points of view, but they must enforce the rule. That is the only possible way to this episode and 5 games seems just right in my book. 

1 or 2 seems just a too ittle and wouldn't be successful to send another messge to the palyer.

5 seems just right.

10 or more, I would have been outraged under the circumstances.

Anyway my two cents, the proposal from Axelrod's lawyer is darn reasonable one expecially I would put my faith on Axelrod's side more than Kendra's on this matter.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

The lady herself is going to be on with Boers and Bernstein at 5:20. Should be interesting.

I think AD's darn lucky things didn't get out of hand. If right after the game he had something like, I thought my wife was in trouble, I was mistaken, I'm sorry I went into the stands, we might not be discussing who was right or wrong in the situation. Too bad he didn't.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

thanks narek!!

it'll be interesting to hear her try and spin her way out of this.

methinks she doesn't have a fendi baguette to stand on.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> thanks narek!!
> 
> it'll be interesting to hear her try and spin her way out of this.
> 
> methinks she doesn't have a fendi baguette to stand on.



And B+B are not known for putting up with much BS... so it should be damn entertaining.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Not that *ScottMay!* needs my support, but I agree with his and *lgtwins'!* position that the suspension is reasonable but that AD was really not at fault. Ultimately AD is as much a victim in this as anyone else. From his perspective, AD probably also understands the punishment and is likely okay with it. He probably regrets his action, but would do the same thing again in a similar circumstance. I believe this because I'd feel the same and do the same.

The league HAD to punish him. In light of the brawl at Auburn Hills and the league policy against going into the stands, they can't allow players to go into the stands. As others have mentioned, that could have escalated into a very unpleasant situation. I respect AD's posture and non-violent approach to resolving the issue, but if players did that often, they'd only be putting themselves in more danger every game.

In my mind, punishment was fair, AD's action was reasonable, and both Kendra and Axelrod come off looking like a couple of kindergartners who need to park it on the naughty step for a while.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Video attached to this ESPN.com report sheds some interesting light on the situation.

--Kendra was jumping up and applauding her husband's and the Knicks' play -- just good, clean rooting for her team.

--A fan behind her became angry that she was blocking her view and repeatedly told her to sit down and shut up, and on at least one occasion "threw an expletive in there." It's not clear whether or not this is Axelrod. The reporter says the eyewitnesses said this person was in his 30s or 40s (Axelrod's balding problem?)

--AD got there before security did

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2299677


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*Mr. Axelrods lawsuit threat and followup letter were simply (and brilliantly) executed PR grabs. Chicago can be notoriously tough on fans who get out of hand. Cubs and Sox fans each have a villian, and Mr. Axelrod acted to make sure he didn't become one for Bulls fans.

*My first thought: Is Mr. Axelrod a poster on these forums? Could it be...K4?

*Unless it goes to lawsuit, which it won't, blame doesn't matter much. Family members are fans when they are at the game, and if they are on the road they should comport themselves accordingly, bring a body guard, or watch the game from another section of the arena. For the good of the game, players should *NEVER, EVER* enter the stands, and especially in this post-riot NBA. If keeping themselves out of the stands means removing things from the stands that might make them have to enter the stands, i.e family, then they should take the responsibility upon themselves to do that.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

the fan that told her to sit down was not axelrod. it was another fan.



> Axelrod said he called over a security guard, who just sat down in an empty seat nearby but didn't do anything. At that point, Kendra Davis was arguing with another fan, Axelrod said. Axelrod called for security again, then he looked up and saw Antonio Davis standing next to him. But he said Davis never said anything to him and instead argued with the other fan.
> 
> At that point, Davis' wife pointed Axelrod out to security, and they took him out to the concourse, Axelrod said. He gave a statement, and they let him return to his seats in time to see Ben Gordon's game-winning shot.
> 
> ...




can't really see how vilifying axelrod, when clearly it was not his fault, is at all reasonable.

the guy in the video is talking about the other fan, not "balding privileged guy" axelrod. 

good clean rooting for her team is one thing, sure. but the minute she left her seat, all bets are off. 

axelrod calls for security and they do nothing. she calls and they escort him away? 

who exactly is privileged?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I am also enjoying the irony of referring to Axelrod as the "privileged" guy.

I wonder whose net worth is higher. AD/KD or Axelrod. I know Axelrod's dad is a big political operative, but he'd have to be mighty wealthy to be the "privileged" one in this situation.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> the fan that told her to sit down was not axelrod. it was another fan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is Axelrod's account in the paper, remember. The eyewitnesses in the ESPN report said the person was sitting directly behind Kendra Davis. The videotape shows Axelrod and no one else sitting directly behind Kendra Davis.

I guess it's possible that the calls of "sit the **** down and shut the **** up" came from someone else behind Kendra, but that seems implausible and sort of contradicts what the eyewitness said. I also don't think it's crazy that someone would confuse Axelrod for a 30-40 year-old.

I'm also going to put a LOT more faith in a guy who was willing to have his name and face on ESPN than an anonymous source in the S-T. Maybe that's just me.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

From what I heard on the radio the night of the incident, the first altercation between Davis and the guy on the aisle (axelrod) was not that big a deal. The guy four seats over yelled "sit down and shut up" with possible expletives and then KD stormed over to him and there was much yelling and finger in the face action. 

This was from a phone call or two not 1.5 hours after the end of the game. 

Just what I heard....


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> I am also enjoying the irony of referring to Axelrod as the "privileged" guy.
> 
> I wonder whose net worth is higher. AD/KD or Axelrod. I know Axelrod's dad is a big political operative, but he'd have to be mighty wealthy to be the "privileged" one in this situation.


I'm sure AD's net worth is higher. But I'm also sure that when he was 22, no one was giving AD a close-in season ticket at an NBA arena.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> I'm sure AD's net worth is higher. But I'm also sure that when he was 22, no one was giving AD a close-in season ticket at an NBA arena.


I'm a little confused why "privilege" - his or hers - has any bearing whatsoever on the discussion.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I'm a little confused why "privilege" - his or hers - has any bearing whatsoever on the discussion.


It doesn't have any bearing at all to the merits of the discussion. But if I were defending a civil case on Kendra's behalf in Cook County court, I would certainly want to present to the jury the details of how it was that Michael Axelrod got to be there that night.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

narek said:


> The lady herself is going to be on with Boers and Bernstein at 5:20. Should be interesting.
> 
> I think AD's darn lucky things didn't get out of hand. If right after the game he had something like, I thought my wife was in trouble, I was mistaken, I'm sorry I went into the stands, we might not be discussing who was right or wrong in the situation. Too bad he didn't.



But what does he tell his wife after the game ? "Sorry baby I saw the guy all over you so I sent security the 100ft to check on your well being" 

Hes going to be playing basketball another 18 months at most hes gonna be with that woman supposedly for the rest of his life.

Its a no brainer..... if he wanted to actually stay married


I do agree that they couldve met after the game and straightened it out but aparrently Axlerod was already late for his first tv appearance and dinner with his press secretary :biggrin:


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> It doesn't have any bearing at all to the merits of the discussion. But if I were defending a civil case on Kendra's behalf in Cook County court, I would certainly want to present to the jury the details of how it was that Michael Axelrod got to be there that night.


To inflame them? With rich-as-God-rooting-for-the-Knicks Kendra Davis as your client. Good luck.

Q: Those are some awfully nice seats. Admit, sir, that you obtained that seat from your father.

A: My dad is a long time season ticket holder and die hard Bulls fan. I've been going to games since I was a boy.

Q: Oh. 

A: Maybe if I was better connected I could have sat even closer like your client did.

Also, the son of a Chicagoan whose main job is to keep Barrack Obama and Richard Daly in office isn't exactly going to draw scorn and ridicule from a city jury based on his "privilege". Talking about his dad probably won't score many points for the defense.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Holy ****! Did anyone else notice THIS???


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Holy ****! Did anyone else notice THIS???


I think he's trying to swab some Curry-transfer-sweat-DNA off AD's shoulder.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Holy ****! Did anyone else notice THIS???


:laugh:


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> To inflame them? With rich-as-God-rooting-for-the-Knicks Kendra Davis as your client. Good luck.
> 
> Q: Those are some awfully nice seats. Admit, sir, that you obtained that seat from your father.
> 
> ...


I was under the impression a working-class jury wouldn't be in a rush to give a child of privilege a million-dollar payout because a small woman was blocking his very nice view of a basketball game.

I am not a lawyer, obviously.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

they just played a bit on The Score from AD:

*"I'm not apologizing to anyone, for anything. I don't think my wife did anything wrong. I don't think I did anything wrong."*


still stands by the comment that the fan "took a swing" at his wife and that's why he bolted into the stands.

he is appealing the suspension.

unbelievable.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I was under the impression a working-class jury wouldn't be in a rush to give a child of privilege a million-dollar payout because a small woman was blocking his very nice view of a basketball game.
> 
> I am not a lawyer, obviously.



I don't really think he wants the million. Listen to the Mike North interview.

This will just fade away.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

AD says he watched the tape and it showed his wife calmly sitting down. that she was relaxed. 

(and there is not one single person who saw "the fan" whether it was axelrod or the other guy, taking a swing at kendra.)

is AD seeing a tape none of us are?

wow.

he also says he doesn't think she's done stuff like this in the past. latrell? care to weigh in?


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> they just played a bit on The Score from AD:
> 
> *"I'm not apologizing to anyone, for anything. I don't think my wife did anything wrong. I don't think I did anything wrong."*
> 
> ...



Wow..


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> they just played a bit on The Score from AD:
> 
> *"I'm not apologizing to anyone, for anything. I don't think my wife did anything wrong. I don't think I did anything wrong."*
> 
> ...


Unfortuantely, this is exactly what I expected from AD.

Doing anything other than would be like contradicting his wife and it would be tough for AD to do just that unless Kendra herself was on the board for public apology.

From what I read, Kendra Davis doesn't seem like aplogizing type regardless of her being wrong or right.

With wife like Kendra on his side, AD got no choice but to go along with her.

I don't know. AD seems like a perfect gentleman with right head above his shoulder who stuck with big time *****, and yet he seems to be perfectly in love with her. 

Strange thing called LOVE.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> I was under the impression a working-class jury wouldn't be in a rush to give a child of privilege a million-dollar payout because a small woman was blocking his very nice view of a basketball game.
> 
> I am not a lawyer, obviously.


They won't be. But it goes both ways. They'll also be MORE likely to give a large award because they will be aware of the superior wealth of the defendant.

My point is that it cuts both ways. But he'd make a good plaintiff in my opinion. I think attacks based on privilege and wealth would backfire on the wife of one of the highest paid players in the entire NBA.

Not to mention all the lawyerly crap like relevence and prejudice. His worth, as the plaintiff, would never come into evidence if a judge was doing his job. 

But you used "privilege" to insult the guy. Thats the part I don't understand.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> AD says he watched the tape and it showed his wife calmly sitting down. that she was relaxed.
> 
> (and there is not one single person who saw "the fan" whether it was axelrod or the other guy, taking a swing at kendra.)
> 
> ...


 Comcast and later ESPN showed footage of Kendra turned around with two hands over Axelrod's face telling him to calm down. Axelrod waved security over and was telling the guard that she was blocking her view while Kendra kept talking.

When AD came up Axelrod claimed Kendra started swearing. Axelrod thought it was directed at him but Kendra claimed she was swearing at AD.


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## thebullybully (Jan 26, 2005)

Please stop painting her as a helpless creature. Even if there was a situation that she didn't start, she is very comfortable in the United Center, and is well aware of where security is. 

I haven't watched the footage since the game was actually on, but clearly what I saw was one man taken out of the seating area who was asking "what did I do?" He was not the man confronted by Kendra Davis several seats over.

It is possible that all these accounts are marginally true, as truth is marred by perception.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

She can end this now with an apology next hour and say that he wasn't drunk.

But instead she said that another person grabbed her wrist


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.yaysports.com/nba/

beware the wagging finger of kendra davis!


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> Comcast and later ESPN showed footage of Kendra turned around with two hands over Axelrod's face telling him to calm down.



She was mocking him in that video. And why was she out of her seat?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I have no idea why we are talking so much about THIS ex-bulls player who's now a knick.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

I'm disappointed that AD is appealing the suspension. I figure he'd have known it was coming.

Not a fan of Kendra OR Axelrod.... either one could have diffused the situation.

League ruling was fair and on the money....

Anybody suing anybody would be ridiculous. Would be like me suing *K4E!* because each of us is too stupid to back off of an argument.... 

_No offense.... for hypothetical purposes only!_


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> http://www.yaysports.com/nba/
> 
> beware the wagging finger of kendra davis!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I think they should tack on an additional 10 games on to Davis' suspension now that he is appealing, to give him the 15 game suspension he would have gotten if he didn
t put the entire schrade thing in there. Clearly he isn't getting the message, and taking going into the stands lightly.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

as an aside, i would actually like to thank AD and his crazy scorpion woman for bringing the traffic up on our forum considerably. perverse? maybe!

good stuff everyone. 

lol tb#1. i love that gif.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

sloth said:


> I think they should tack on an additional 10 games on to Davis' suspension now that he is appealing, to give him the 15 game suspension he would have gotten if he didn
> t put the entire schrade thing in there. Clearly he isn't getting the message, and taking going into the stands lightly.


What is with this new "law and order" version of sloth? Are you at military school or something these days?


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> What is with this new "law and order" version of sloth? Are you at military school or something these days?


Sloth is now in ANGER mode after Curry trade. :biggrin:


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

sloth said:


> I think they should tack on an additional 10 games on to Davis' suspension now that he is appealing, to give him the 15 game suspension he would have gotten if he didn
> t put the entire schrade thing in there. Clearly he isn't getting the message, and taking going into the stands lightly.



I agree. He got off light and now he's appealing?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Look at #7:




> The table below lists The Seven Deadly Sins (vices) in the traditional order with the virtues against which they are sins. The history of this list goes back at least to Pope St. Gregory the Great and St. John Cassian, but while the list itself is not strictly biblical, the Bible proscribes all seven. If one or more of these doesn't seem like a big sin to you, it almost certainly means you have already rationalized it. Work on that one first. By the way, there is no set list of Virtues corresponding to these. I've just listed the ones that made sense at the time.
> 
> If you need additional information on Dante's views of these, it is after the table.
> 
> ...


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

from bill simmons 




> *Q: Why should Antonio Davis get suspended for any games? He was a man at work who saw his wife in a threatening situation that security obviously had done nothing to diffuse. He addressed it calmly and without violence, then left it to the authorities. Clearly either the fan(s) or his wife (or both) were involved in it escalating to what it was ... and Davis' entry ended it. Punish THEM, not him. The problem isn't Davis, the problem is that the league still has not done enough to prevent confrontations in the stands. Control the stands, and the players won't be in them.
> -- Jack McDonald, Naperville, Ill.*
> 
> SG: Very fair point on confrontations in the stands. One problem: The facts point to Davis' wife escalating the incident and having a history of acting, um, erratically at her husband's games. That's why I don't think Davis should have been suspended for what happened, just in case he's The Dude Who Married A Slightly Crazy Chick. We all have one friend who married someone who's a little crazy, and occasionally she gets into random fights at bars or tries to run him over in her car, and then things settle down and they're OK ... but you never judge, and you never stop cutting the guy slack because it's not his fault that he married a crazy person, and besides, crazy girls are always the ones who are phenomenal in bed. Why do you think the plot of every Cinemax movie revolves around some smoking-hot chick who kills a bunch of people, seduces a detective and has over-the-top sex with him before being revealed to be crazy?
> ...


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Kendra Davis is going to be on Boers and Bernstien at 5:20


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

lgtwins said:


> Sloth is now in ANGER mode after Curry trade. :biggrin:


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Okay here comes my humble opinion, while I am on distinguished road 

AD hates Bulls more than any player in NBA and at this point, I care less about AD career or his wife security.

I am happy with the five games suspension (although I was praying for a whole season suspension), because NY will definitely add, at least four more losses to their records and we may have more chances getting a higher draft pick. 

I also will be extremely happy to see a lawsuit filed against AD, so he will be wasting his energy somewhere else …far away from the basketball court.



P.S. Sorry AD, you are a good man and reliable player, but you are causing us a lot of problems. And, you were absolutely correct defending your wife and league has right to defend its fans too. So, just calm down and stop punishing your former teammates for JR’s greediness; collect your $14mil. and go home for good.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


>


This is good. You are in very creative mood today.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> from bill simmons


Come here and say this now is rather stupid after Miz.s quote. But when I saw it couple of time, AD's cool demeanor is rather unusual for someone ran into the stand, I thought his mindset was more like something like this. Just maybe.

"Oh, s***, there she goes again!"

This explain a lot more about his cool and calm deneanor while entering the stand and at the scene way more than cool head.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


>


No you didnt Tbo!

:clap:


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Of course i have no idea what really happened but i have read that Axelrod yelled at the refs and Davis wife got out of her seat and starting yelling at him. This is, per what i read on Yahoo, that others sitting near Alexrod and tape backs up his story. They also said that no one physically touched her and it was ADs wife who was starting the trouble.

In addition, the drunk fan story but on by AD and reported as what happened is clearly bs. In addition, other fans have said that they asked ADs wife to sit down and stop yelling at them. Now of course all these fans and the tape may be lies but it does seem kinda interesting.

But one thing is for sure, the real story will come out and my guess is AD and especially his wife, are not out the clear yet and this story will look even worse than it does now.

david


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

it was a fascinating interview on the score.

she claims axelrod, who was sitting two rows up from her and directly behind her son, was verbally abusing AD about a call he didn't agree with. saying bad things about AD. he was also taking issue that AD's son was standing up in front of him. she intervened on behalf of her son and asked axelrod to chill out, to "go to a happy place". he then motioned for security and was saying "i can have you ejected, season ticket holder, blah, blah". apparently the C-word was used by axelrod, according to kendra. 

some other fan then told her to basically "sit down you righteous *****". it was the second guy, according to kendra, who grabbed her wrist as she was waving her finger at him. when she tried to extracate herself from this, her hand flew back, and that's what AD saw. and then AD ran up. 

b+b were harping on about her not calling security. shouldn't she have taken the high road. the fan (axelrod) did nothing in violation of his "contract on the ticket". it's within his rights to yell at AD in that manner. 

kendra says that if he apologizes to her, she will apologize to him. when asked about the prospect of court, she said "it's a beautiful thing". 

then they asked her if she's ever been thrown out of her kid's basketball games (goes to character, your honor) and she said, no, well, this one time, ok, i did get thrown out, but i'm no worse than any other parent. this went on for a while. 


at the end when asked would she do it any differently, like call security, the "next time" she said, well "there's one thing i'm not and that's clairvoyant so i don't know"
--


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.670thescore.com/includes/news_items/1/686/kendra_davis.mp3


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> it was a fascinating interview on the score.
> 
> she claims axelrod, who was sitting two rows up from her and directly behind her son, was verbally abusing AD about a call he didn't agree with. saying bad things about AD. he was also taking issue that AD's son was standing up in front of him. she intervened on behalf of her son and asked axelrod to chill out, to "go to a happy place". he then motioned for security <b>and was saying "i can have you ejected, season ticket holder, blah, blah". apparently the C-word was used by axelrod, according to kendra. </b>
> 
> ...


Scott will love the bolded part.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

I am loving it this Kendra interview.

Do you know what she said to his kid when Alxelrod repeatedly told kids to sit down?

"Hello kids, this isn't Opera. You can stand up."

Of course it itself is right. But when someone complain about standing up in front of one blocking the view, she truned to her kids and say "Do whatever you want. Stand up if you want."

One thing is for sure. She is a character.

Everybody, listen to this interview. Quite fun.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Some hilarious parts.

"Chill out...calm down.....go to a happy place" Just how she said it made it funny.

"Its okay to yell, looks like your running in mud".

She clearly backtracks when they say that is within their contract to use those things, then they make something up.

lmao

"how dare you talk to me like that, who do you think you are, you can't say that"


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

AD, you and wifeprincess can Kendra on out of town for good.

Good thing you're so overpaid, you'll need it with Kendra in your corner.


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

AD may have been justified in going in the stands, but what could her justification have been? I saw her on video, and I thought it was pretty damning. As I recall, she was standing, he was sitting. She was gesturing wildly in an attempt to humiliate him, in pretty much full TB-Saddam .gif, Cobra-like head wagging mode, while he was avoiding eye contact and occasionally gesturing for security. They were apparently at his seat in the stands, meaning she came out of her seat, walked over to him and invaded his space to take it from verbal to physical. Get security next time, Ms. AD, rather than humiliating the potentially crazy/drunk/violent guy from two inches away. Just a tip. I thought he showed some restraint in the little clip I saw. 

Seems pretty certain that neither was blameless, but that she was unquestionably out of hand. 

:2fing: <------ hand ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Ms. AD -------> :curse: 

Out of hand. 

I don't know what I would do in the face of the Mutombo memorial finger wag of death and/or face scratch. Grabbing the finger eventually seems entirely possible, especially if dangerous-looking nails started to fly around my vulnerable noggin as I struggled to keep the vein in my forehead from jumping out and doing a dance on the floor.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

The nba is just becoming a joke and I cant believe this is some huge story . Why doesnt someone ask the UC security folks how many times they have had arguments between fans in the stands ? This crap happens all the time so are the games so boring now that this crap entertains us more than the actual games ?

When Gordon hit those hots down the stretch did he tell anyone else to sit down then ? or did he only want kendra and Co to sit down because they were rooting for the knicks ?

He claims he didnt know it was AD's wife until AD showed up but yet they were sitting in front yelling the entire game. I guess when AD hit those jumpers the kids yelled GO !! ANTONIO !!!!

You would think with that much money that kendra would just whistle for security and have the guy removed for threatening remarks. Seeing as he is not a season ticker holder and is a guest of one shouldnt he be held to higher standards as well ?

I think Kendra shouldve behaved like the rich woman that she is and allow security to handle it 

I dont think that axlerod shoulld use the age old "I wasnt doing anything ,I was just sitting there with my hands in my lap and then I raised one fist in the air and said quietly Go ! Bulls and then this big lady came up and attacked me with here finger.I dont smoke or drink and I volunteer at a homeless shelter and I even check the donate 3 dollar box on my illinois tax return. " excuse either . 

If you ask me they both should be punished by forcing them to go on one of those people court type shows like Joe Brown or judge judy and tell their stories there.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Kendra Davis is my new hero.

I mean, in the face of an incredibly adversarial and occasionally disrespectful interview with B&B, she came off as about a billion times more credible and intelligent than Mikey Axelrod did with Mike "Power to the People" North.

Very impressive. And I now have officially zero doubt that Mikey Axelrod got caught talking smack to the wrong mother hen. 

A season ticket, regardless of how long Daddy's had it, does not give one the right to remove the filter between one's id and one's tongue. Case closed.


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## bbertha37 (Jul 21, 2004)

You actually thought she came off as credible? This excerpt's enough for me:

I've never been thrown out...I was thrown out of one...I left one game...I've been thrown out of one basketball game with my kids


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

what i saw was this and if it has already been stated exactly as i put it well , i cant help that.(well i could i just didn't read some of the pages in this thread )

AD looks up and sees a situation involving 2 men and his wife , who happened to be with his 2 10 year old kids.

he goes up to see whats wrong and in my estimation put an end to the situation which could have easily gotten worse. if only because because his presence in the discussion took all the aggression out of it, he is a big guy and no one wanted any piece of him , also kendra also stood in between them facing Antonio , to me that also said she didn't want there to be an altercation

he was in the crowd and already in conversation a good 30 seconds to a full minute before any security arrived , no doubt coming over because AD was up there , not because of the confrontation between kendra and the 2 men...there just is no way security should have been that slow , but in my estimation it would have been quite a bit slower without AD's presence.

why was this incident happening , my guess is that both sides have some truth in them , that the men were saying some things that were offensive about AD and his wife took offense , not just because he is her husband but because their kids were there.

maybe she got to animated in defense of her husband,maybe her comments to them were a 100% justified i have no clue what was said i can only believe they were far above the norm to even warrant a response she has been going to his road games for years, and seriously once the 2 men saw who they were talking to they should have apoligized the her and her kids and moved on and if she kept going on , get some popcorn or some soda because arguing with the woman wasn't going to get them anywhere but a possible ban from events at the UC...but they didn't defuse it or remove themselves from the discussion , it appears instead they stayed and argued long enough for AD to notice, not just an argument but its ability to turn into something serious , and he had an obligation to make sure his wife and kids were safe from possible harm.

its not like AD left in the middle of a play , it was during a break in the action , who knows how long they were going at it before he even saw them and at what level of intensity they were at when he saw them.

the idea of being cost 630k over making sure your wife and kids are safe seems a bit extreme , the idea of him missing games over going into the stands isn't ...i think a 10 game paid suspension seemed right , because he was after all doing in my opinion and most people's the right thing...but he and his team do need to suffer a bit because of it because it was still possibly a dangerous situation.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

"Kendra Davis is my new hero".

This is a joke right. She says next time she will call security and have the man removed. For what. Yelling at the refs or asking some one in front to sit down? This issue here is not what AD did i dont really think anyone disagrees with him looking after his family. The issue here is Kendra Davis conduct. She is not the bulls fan speach police and if she doesnt like what some fan is saying tough. What planet are you from. There can be little doubt she cooked up this whole mess and then both she and AD made up (lied) a big story about how some bad, drunk man starting everything and she was just some poor person who was abused.

But now the whole story has changed because there is a tape of her in fact starting the whole issue and we have a whole new story about how she didnt like what fans were saying and well she can not stand for that because her husband makes a lot of money. Kenda Davis, wow, no doubt a real role model of my child.

PLEASE, the bulls should take away her tickets for a year or two, period. She is responsible for this and she just cost her family 800k for being STUPID. 

david


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

I saw that interview as one long justification for their actions.

If someone behind their son spent the entire game saying vile things about Davis, why did Mrs. Davis wait until the end of game to show her kids how to fight for themselves? Couldn't one of those adults change seats with the son in the first quarter? Couldn't any of them in the first, second or third quarters go to the security folks and ask them to intervene? 

I learned at an early age if there were problems in a theater, a baseball, football or basketball stadium, you get someone with authority to deal with it to keep the problem from getting out of hand. That's the appropriate response because you don't know how someone is going to react when you ask them to stop doing what they're doing. Even at something more highbrow as a live theater presentation, people will behave like idiots when asked by their fellow patrons to please be quiet.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I doubt Axelrod was just making abusive comments about Antonio Davis all night. I assume he made a lot of rude comments towards Crawford and Curry, in a number greatly outdoing that of the 1-3 times he may have made a rude comment about Davis. I think it was just Hotheaded Women Syndrome that caused this, there are hotheaded women in real life, and this was a real example on tv of it.


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## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

I just listened to the interview. So, essentialy all of her witnesses are 10 year olds. I especialy liked the part where she described this whole mess as like a fight breaking out in the school yard and every kid has a different story of what happened. Hopefully, for her sake, she can get all the children on the same page before she makes them testify at trial.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

he said. she said. what a surprise.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=145378




> After both Antonio and Kendra Davis spoke, Axelrod’s attorney, Jay Paul Deratany, responded to The Associated Press.
> 
> “In terms of Mr. Davis’ statement, that’s just unfortunate because we gave him the perfect opportunity to act like a gentleman and he didn’t take the opportunity,” Deratany said. “As far as Mrs. Davis, she made outrageous comments, further slandering Mike.”


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

giusd said:


> She is not the bulls fan speach police and if she doesnt like what some fan is saying tough. What planet are you from.


On my planet, it's absolutely okay to stand and cheer for the opposing team, and it's not okay to tell a woman who's doing that to "shut the **** up and sit the **** down, you ****".

Possessing a ticket to an NBA game doesn't grant the privilege of carte blanche verbal abuse. Axelrod thought he was insulting an easy target, he guessed wrong, she bit back hard, and then he went and cried about everything like a spoiled little baby.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

ScottMay said:


> On my planet, it's absolutely okay to stand and cheer for the opposing team, and it's not okay to tell a woman who's doing that to "shut the **** up and sit the **** down, you ****".
> 
> Possessing a ticket to an NBA game doesn't grant the privilege of carte blanche verbal abuse. Axelrod thought he was insulting an easy target, he guessed wrong, she bit back hard, and then he went and cried about everything like a spoiled little baby.


The entire part about Axelrod telling Mrs. Davis to sit down because she was cheering for the Knicks seems just made up to me, and was added later on. He told her to sit down when she was getting in the way of the game for him when she went up by him.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

sloth said:


> The entire part about Axelrod telling Mrs. Davis to sit down because she was cheering for the Knicks seems just made up to me, and was added later on. He told her to sit down when she was getting in the way of the game for him when she went up by him.



But didnt it happen during a timeout ? 

When Ben hit the gamewinner did he tell everyone to sit down because he couldnt see ?


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

sloth said:


> I doubt Axelrod was just making abusive comments about Antonio Davis all night. I assume he made a lot of rude comments towards Crawford and Curry, in a number greatly outdoing that of the 1-3 times he may have made a rude comment about Davis. I think it was just Hotheaded Women Syndrome that caused this, there are hotheaded women in real life, and this was a real example on tv of it.


Or realizing that her husband just got a crucial call in the game and she was standing up cheering him he got mad and said something he shouldnt have and was called on it.

"AD you suck" in the oppsing team staduim I doubt she would even care its the nature of him being on the opposing team but AD does something good and she cheers and you say sit down you blah blah or whatever and Ill guarantee you that gets a response from anyone. 

Instead of looking at it from her being the wife of a player look at it for what it is... a fan to fan altercation. 

How far do those type of altercations usually go ? I doubt very far .


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I can't stand Bernstein. That pompous arrogant self-righteous big-head was basically lecturing her. First he's wrong that the ticket entitles him to say whatever he wants. Secondly, if he did say things like "I hope he falls and breaks his neck" well, I think that's just awful. She was obnoxious in the way she dealt with things but axelrod was, IMO the whiny immature priviledged boy. It's funny how we can stereotype people yet sometimes they are true.

It's also interesting to note that the security guard who was standing there was actually there to move her 10 year old kid's basketball team to somewhere.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Funny i dont know anyone who has said that Alexrod make some inapproprate comment about AD or anyone else. From what i have read Alexrod yelled somthing at the Ref.

"and it's not okay to tell a woman who's doing that to "shut the **** up and sit the **** down, you ****".".

I know of NO ONE who has stated that Alexrod said this and making such a statement is immature and not called for. NO ONE that i have read has suggested that Alexrod said anything like this. However, multiple adults have stated that KD turned around, start shouting at Alexrod, stuck her finger into has cheek and when asked would not stop. Seriously Scot May are you like 13 y/o.

Man you are just making stuff up. It seems more and more clear that KD was pissed that the knick were going to lose and started acting out and what is clearly un-acceptable conduct. I dont know about you but were i am from sticking you finger pushing into someones cheek is called assult. There can be NO EXCUSE for her conduct period. If she was at work, which of course she doesnt, she would likely be fired for that, but you are telling us she is your hero. Dude that is call personality issues. She should have her season tickets taken away and suspended from the United Center for a year for assulting a fan. PERIOD.

DAVID


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

ScottMay said:


> On my planet, it's absolutely okay to stand and cheer for the opposing team, and it's not okay to tell a woman who's doing that to "shut the **** up and sit the **** down, you ****".
> 
> Possessing a ticket to an NBA game doesn't grant the privilege of carte blanche verbal abuse. Axelrod thought he was insulting an easy target, he guessed wrong, she bit back hard, and then he went and cried about everything like a spoiled little baby.


I'm on your planet until that last part. Certainly Axelrod doesn't have carte blanche - at the very least, some things are against the law to say (threats, etc.) It's quite possible he was out of line. Maybe he should have been thrown in jail. I tend to doubt it, but maybe. He may have acted inappropriately, or not. Only the people that were there could know that. Whichever. That's not the issue, at least not the issue I'm talking about.

The issue is that her reaction was appropriate in no circumstance. She didn't bite back hard, she bit back crazy. Whether Axelrod deserved to go to jail or was completely innocent, there is no stimulus for which the reasonable reaction is to leave your kids, stand within a few inches of someone you don't know who is potentially nuts and/or drunk and/or violent and apparently hostile, goad him, gesture wildly, cause a scene, put yourself in physical danger, and cause your husband to leave his work to come sort it out in front of 25000 people. CALL SECURITY MS. AD. It's what civilized people do. Even if you want him to get the death penalty, the first step is to call security.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

there seems to be some "facts" still up in the air

1 who spoke to whom 1st was it axelrod telling her to sit down for what would amount to cheering her husband and most likely his team...most likely after an AD good play because as i remember her made a couple of good ones right before the now infamos timout.

to which i would say its completely axelrod's fault , if he can cheer his team she can surely use her ticket to cheer her husband on...i kind of doubt its something kendra hasn't done plenty of times before in many arenas around the country ...with this being the only time some1 threw a stink over it.

2 was it axelrod getting yelled at 1st for yelling at the ref , in which case it depends completely on what he said ...if he dropped some blue language on the refs she once again had the right to say something because she had kids with her ...unless she choose to litter the landscape with f-bombs as well if he was just loud with a "bad call ref" it was her fault because though loud that is acceptable behavoir at a ballgame , its not a library, but this depends completely on what was said and since there was supposedly a security person there the entire time i expect the air to be cleared up rather quickly once people really dig their feet in and legal papers start flying.

my personal expectation is for axelrod to back off he has gotten his 15 min, of fame, if he said something i beleive it was beyond the call of duty to the ref, in a way that was vulgar so he is wrong , because the last time i checked the NBA was bending over backwards to make its games family affairs and that kind of stuff isn't needed not just because AD's kids were there but because alot of people's kids were, and of course the security person there didn't put a halt to axelrod being kicked out so at least at that point he was thought as well as his friend to be in the wrong as well.

i also object to all the inuendo about kendra and antonio i dont care for the spin that apparently kendra is some out of control woman and AD is her muscle blindly following whatever she says, the man is one of the most respected men in the nba an established role model and mentor...all based on an argument with supposedly latrell and her 5 years ago ( no one even speculates on what was said , they just speak of it as animated)...i mean c'mon spike lee and jack nicholson have running dialogues on regular bases with players and no one says boo, it to me seems a very flimsy attitude to have.

and of course i have a problem with sportswriters and sportscasters having fits over AD appealing his suspension...he is the president of the player's association , of course he is going to appeal, anything above a meeting stu jackson and you have to believe he was going to appeal because a ruling like this sets boundary lines between time limits on this particular type of suspension, with of course this being the most reasonable reason possible outside of maybe davis stern CPR after he has a heart attack or something , he was going up there to make sure his wife and kids were safe. so either they are playing very dumb , or playing the public like it is dumb neither of which sits well with me.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> On my planet, it's absolutely okay to stand and cheer for the opposing team, and it's not okay to tell a woman who's doing that to "shut the **** up and sit the **** down, you ****".
> 
> Possessing a ticket to an NBA game doesn't grant the privilege of carte blanche verbal abuse. Axelrod thought he was insulting an easy target, he guessed wrong, she bit back hard, and then he went and cried about everything like a spoiled little baby.



Hey buddy, sit down and shut up............. You're blocking my view of a good thread.


Do you wanna hit me now or later?

Please Scott, Kendra is a nut job...she's sits out even more crap so no pass for her.

I'm just glad that nothing happened. In the end, this is just more words costing more people money. Let Kendra pay for ignorance.

Oh and Antonio, with her still in CHicago, I see why you agreed to play in NY this season.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Funny, there as a column today from a writer who used to cover the raptors who said KD had in the past left messages on his answering machine full of non stop very blue comments. he also said that she has a bad habit of think she is the nba star. Posted on insidehoops.com

Seriously, what kind of person sticks her finger in someones cheek and start pushing it and yelling and thinks it is ok. She was upet with what some said so she goes off in front of her childern.

Come everyone this is not about AD or what he did or Alexrod this is about some crazy women who should have to suffer the consequences for her actions. IT IS CALLED ASSULT.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Funny, there as a column today from a writer who used to cover the raptors who said KD had in the past left messages on his answering machine full of non stop very blue comments. he also said that she has a bad habit of think she is the nba star. Posted on insidehoops.com

Seriously, what kind of person sticks her finger in someones cheek and start pushing it and yelling and thinks it is ok. She was upet with what some said so she goes off in front of her childern.

Come everyone this is not about AD or what he did or Alexrod this is about some crazy women who should have to suffer the consequences for her actions. IT IS CALLED ASSULT.

DAVID


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> On my planet, it's absolutely okay to stand and cheer for the opposing team, and it's not okay to tell a woman who's doing that to "shut the **** up and sit the **** down, you ****".
> 
> Possessing a ticket to an NBA game doesn't grant the privilege of carte blanche verbal abuse. Axelrod thought he was insulting an easy target, he guessed wrong, she bit back hard, and then he went and cried about everything like a spoiled little baby.


I don't understand how you can come to conclusions with such definiteness. Particulary with all of the stories surfacing about her erratic conduct in the past, the reported statments of witnesses, and no misconduct stories surfacing regarding Axelrod.

I don't understand how you can be so concrete.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I don't understand how you can come to conclusions with such definiteness. Particulary with all of the stories surfacing about her erratic conduct in the past, the reported statments of witnesses, and no misconduct stories surfacing regarding Axelrod.
> 
> I don't understand how you can be so concrete.


I'm more or less with you. This scenario definitely seems to be a situation where words and intentions have been propagated and distorted to the point where it's hard to tell what really went on. And furthermore, anyone who was there probably started observing it at different times, and considering it took place in the rather frantic environment of an NBA game, and most of the eye witnesses were under 10 years old, and nobody has been able to agree on what actually happened, I'm having a little trouble drawing conclusions on who was right and who was wrong. 

If I had to guess, I'd say Axelrod was probably being a little obtuse and rowdy, and Kendra apparently has a history of being a high-strung, confrontational person, especially in these types of situations, so I think it's pretty feasible to imagine how both people may have overstepped their boundaries, and both of them were guilty in escalating the situation, but I honestly have not read two reports of what happened that were really consistent with one another, so it's difficult to determine to what degree each person was wrong. 

Right now, there are two things that I concretely think:

Regardless of whether he was innocent or not, Axelrod is a douch for trying to sue.

I really doubt either party was completely innocent. Even though the facts still seem to be pretty hazy, it seems to be pretty consistent that both of them were being confrontational in some respect.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

rosenthall said:


> Right now, there are two things that I concretely think:
> 
> Regardless of whether he was innocent or not, Axelrod is a douch for trying to sue.
> 
> I really doubt either party was completely innocent. Even though the facts still seem to be pretty hazy, it seems to be pretty consistent that both of them were being confrontational in some respect.


That's pretty much what I think, though if I were you, I may be concerned I'm facing a slander suit!

Really... I haven't taken the time to read through all of this thread or keep up on the particulars of this thing to me it's a manufactured story in the first place. 

A complete non-issue, the only aspect of which bears discussion is that it shows how various parties abuse rules for their own purposes, rather than use them to actually prevent harms upon others.

Proposition: There was no real harm here. Tempers flared, insults were exchanged, and if I were Antonio Davis I'd have done the same thing. If I was Kendra Davis and I felt (correctly or not) that the guy behind me was being too obnoxious and vulgar, I would have said something too, and could easily imagine it escalating (I actually almost got in a fight about a month ago because this kid wouldn't turn off his cell phone in the movies and gave me a "**** you" when I asked him -with no vulgarity whatsoever- to stop talking). In any case, nothing really happened.

Yet, you have at least two groups of people exploiting rules here for (the attempt at) great financial effect. 

The first is ESPN (especially) and various other media outlets that treated this instance like it was the second coming of the brawl last year, when no one with any comprehension of the details of the situation would equate the two. I mean duh... a player went into the stands. But anyone who saw this, and anyone who has basic info on Antonio Davis knows this is different. But because there was a superficial similarity, and because there was a rule put in place (by the league) about the superficial action, it became a point at which the media could create a story. Would the league treat this situation like last year? I mean, shouldn't they? They're nothing but a bunch of hypocrites of they don't throw the book at AD! And if they do, how could they? I mean, anyone can see it's not the same. That'd be unfair!

In short, there's a ready-built storyline either way, perfect to go over, and over, and over, and over again. One that will boost ratings for 30 seconds or so until people figure out it's really a meaningless debate that no one cares about.

The second is the type of Nimrod clown who generates nuisance lawsuits at the drop of a hat. As if anyone could sully his reputation further than he does himself by being a "paid political consultant". Bleck. Ironically, such types are typically paid to relate what the "common man" thinks to politicians who are, I guess, too busy to be in touch, and thus, get them re-elected. All I can say is if he thinks filing a slander lawsuit based on boorish behavior at a basketball game is a good move, he better win, because he'll likely never work again. Scratch that... he's the son of some other foppish political hack, so I guess it's likely he'll get a job somewhere. Maybe Michael McCaskey needs a new PR guy.

Guh. I'm going to go puke now.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> LAWSUIT NOT A SURE THING Although no apologies have been exchanged, the dispute between a Chicago Bulls fan and Antonio Davis and his wife, Kendra, may yet be resolved without a lawsuit. David Axelrod, whose son Michael verbally tangled with Kendra Davis, said the family preferred to avoid legal action.
> 
> "I think people are ultimately rational, and I think there are better ways to resolve situations than lawsuits if you can avoid doing that," Axelrod said in a telephone interview.
> 
> ...


nytimes.com


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