# Word has it that Nocioni will sign tomorrow!!!



## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Hi guys!
I got the news from a very good friend.I will reveal the source tomorrow if true after all.

So dont get too overall excited but I think we will hear the good news soon.


----------



## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Wow. Can you share any info about how his buyout might be handled?


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

WOW


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Well, it looks like we will be using part of the MLE after all, if not all of it.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

greekbullsfan started another thread on this too... hmmph

You guys have the same source?!


----------



## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

sign macas too, and call it a day.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

drop the Bulls and rename the team

Chicago Ceramica


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> drop the Bulls and rename the team
> 
> Chicago Ceramica


rlucas, Nocioni is still your boy right?! you were the first cat to even mention the name here, I'd never heard of him before you mentioned him.

Hmmph. If this is the case, the Bulls now have 2 SF prospects in Nocioni and Deng.  :yes:


----------



## Lurch (Nov 3, 2003)

Good news for the Bulls I think Nocioni has what it takes.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> rlucas, Nocioni is still your boy right?! you were the first cat to even mention the name here, I'd never heard of him before you mentioned him.
> ...


I like him, but have my doubts

First off, this guy has no handles whatsoever. He makes Tyson chandler look like Magic Johnson

Second off, he isnt the outside shooter that people are making him out to be. Not even close. He played the 4 in Europe alot which allowed him to get open looks. In the NBA, I am not sure he gets that. And its not like he knocks them down even if they are open. His specialty is 15 feet and in. Not going to be good for spacing

Lastly, not known to be a good passer

He has some positive attributes

1) He really is a dynamite athlete and physical speciment. he is built like a man
2) He plays decent D, but at this level, he guards only ONE Spot. 
3) Good on the O Glass, not so great on the D Glass
4) Nice back to the basket game and goes hard to the basket
5) Obviously very good at filling the lane


But at the end, this guy is still unproven. ASsuming the Bulls can really get him, are we willing to pay 5 mil for a guy whose game might not translate to the NBA? I am not sure. Like I said, he could be Matt Harpring, or Kenny Walker. Its too close. And if Ivika Dukan has anything to say about this, then you have to have some doubts. If it comes down to Macijauskas or Nocioni id take Macijauskas, based on what the Bulls need. With the current team, do we have a proven guy who can knock down jumpshots? I see alot of 5 guys within 18 feet of the basket, making it very easy to guard against the Bulls/Ceramica


----------



## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I like him, but have my doubts
> ...


Oh come on rlucas.....Tyson doesn't have handles.

You are a little bit off there about Andres,


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> With the current team, do we have a proven guy who can knock down jumpshots?


No we don't. I hope Gordon is that guy, and Deng could be that guy going forward.

I was watching a tape of the Duke/UConn final 4 game last week. After all, ALL of our draft picks were involved. Deng's shot looks funny. His forearm is not perpendicular to the ground. Instead, his elbow pops out a lot and his wrist still ends up in the center of his body, meaning his wrist ends up at a strange angle. It looks strange. Still, it goes in a lot already. 

But I always worry about trying to "correct" players' shots. Sometimes you wind up with better technique and a lower shooting percentage.


----------



## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> He makes Tyson chandler look like Magic Johnson


A guy who can turn Tyson into Magic deserves a max contract!


----------



## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

rlucas, your description makes him sound like the anti-Euro. Everything physical and very little finesse. I know you have your concerns, but don't you think a physical style of play like his might translate well in the NBA? And since the NBA places so much emphasis on a physical style of play as opposed to overseas, couldn't he find himself in a situation with Chicago where he's asked to play to his strengths and in doing so becomes an even more effective player than he has been in Europe?


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Doesn't sound bad to me, as long as we're not paying too much.

As long as no one gets their hopes up too high, it sounds like he won't disappoint.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> As long as no one gets their hopes up too high, it sounds like he won't disappoint.


Thats the important perspective to keep in mind. He is a nice piece of the puzzle. He is not, and should not be expected to be, the franchise savior.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>unBULLievable</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh come on rlucas.....Tyson doesn't have handles.
> ...


But Nocioni has Zero handles- None. He looks totally lost trying to dribble the ball in both open space and in tight quarters. I am serious, its a legit concern

Kismet, your right, he is the anti Euro (I hate that generalization by the way, people forget Sarunas, Sabonis, Pietrus and some of the croats that played in the NBA in the early 90s, the guy from Boston name is slipping my mind). But what this club needs is the true Euro (damn there is that generalization). This club needs a shooter in the worst kind of way. We have plenty of guys who can get dirty. But what we need is a guy who is a threat the second he steps over half court. People wonder why Tyson and Eddy havent developed. Its fairly clear, they lack spacing to be able to do their thing without seeing double teams, often brought by just bumping into one another. Nocioni doesnt provide real spacing to this club. His repuation, based on the Chicago papers, as a sharp shooter, is a fallacy. What this guy will do is fill the lane, hit the offensive glass, get to the line and play a little D against 3s only. He is a step in the right direction, but not a perfect match for this club. A great place for him would be a team like Dallas that has lots of shooters so he can operate in the paint


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats the important perspective to keep in mind. He is a nice piece of the puzzle. He is not, and should not be expected to be, the franchise savior.


too late mate


----------



## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Kismet, your right, he is the anti Euro (I hate that generalization by the way, people forget Sarunas, Sabonis, Pietrus and some of the croats that played in the NBA in the early 90s, the guy from Boston name is slipping my mind).


Dino Radja?


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> 
> 
> Dino Radja?


Bingo! Thanks

That guy was a tough hard nosed player. I think he had an 18 pt 10 bd year. Never stepped outside of 10 feet from the basket and lived at the line. 

I always thought the generalization of the Euro was a little off. I mean, Dirk has done well on the boards in the NBA. I think people see great shooters and dont realize they know how to do other things, like set screens or play D. I mean, Vlade Divac doesnt exactly shy away from contact


----------



## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

What happened with Macijauskas coming to chicago? IS pax not interested anymore?

And does anyone know if PAX is planning on resigning LINTON JOHNSON or RONALD DUPREE?


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

To address the concerns about the shooting I think if Nocioni signs that means the NY deal is officially dead and if we can't add somebody through a sign-and-trade of Jamal and if we do re-sign Jamal and he can't provide consistency, it's gonna be up to one man to be the threat he steps on the floor...


BEN GORDON


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> What happened with Macijauskas coming to chicago? IS pax not interested anymore?
> 
> And does anyone know if PAX is planning on resigning LINTON JOHNSON or RONALD DUPREE?


Lunatic, let me take a stab

Linton has been at atleast one Bulls event this summer, the 5k race, so I think the Bulls have an interest in keeping him

Dupree is playing, I believe, for San Antonios summer league team. I think that is a fairly clear sign that he is gone


----------



## onetenthlag (Jul 29, 2003)

One thing that RLucas mentioned stuck out b/c it was also highlighted on Insider today - supposedly Nocioni's offensive game is with his back to the basket.

The Bulls don't need a 3 that can post guys up consistently (although it would be a nice luxury). If this guy can't hit the 3 at 35%+, the Bulls definitely shouldn't pay him anything more than half the MLE. Why not just sign Eric Williams to a deal for about the same amount - at least he's a proven NBA player.


----------



## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Bingo! Thanks
> ...


While he was a hard nosed player, didn't he quit the NBA because the schedule was too rough on him?

Anyways, if you guys want video clips of Nocioni, check out the Euroleague site. He was a highlight machine this past year.


----------



## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

It's kind of hard to get excited about this. Some people feel he is going to be a really good player, others are saying don't expect anything at all. If he does sign, I sure hope he plays in the RMR, because I want to see what he's all about now. I don't want to have to wait until November.


----------



## european (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I like him, but have my doubts
> ...


Nocioni hasn't played the 4 a lot this season.He has spend the whole season at 3,and some injuries forced him to play the 4 spot for little amount of time.
He is not a bad shooter at all.He is streaky,but you can't leave him alone,thats for sure.I think his shot is comparable to Ginobili's shot:streaky,but he can score 4 3pointers on a row.
And Nocioni shot has improved every year.Right now I think he has an average shot for a NBA small forward,even slighty above average.
He has a good mid range shot.There are some guys(Posey,Ginobili to name a few) than can hit the 3 pointer easily,but they have just a decent medium range shot.Nocioni mid range shot is good.
About his handles,I think you are exagerating a little.They are not that bad.He can create his own shot,but yes,handles are his biggest weaknnes.
Comparasion?A better Shane Battier,a slighty worse shooter and more athletic Shane Battier.


----------



## european (Jun 8, 2002)

BTW,guess who has a been a Nocioni's teammate this year?
Kornel David.  
He is a great player.He is the type of player whose play is not suited well in the NBA,but he is a very good player.


----------



## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>european</b>!
> 
> Nocioni hasn't played the 4 a lot this season.He has spend the whole season at 3,and some injuries forced him to play the 4 spot for little amount of time.
> He is not a bad shooter at all.He is streaky,but you can't leave him alone,thats for sure.I think his shot is comparable to Ginobili's shot:streaky,but he can score 4 3pointers on a row.
> ...


Can he guard SG ?


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>european</b>!
> BTW,guess who has a been a Nocioni's teammate this year?
> Kornel David.
> He is a great player.He is the type of player whose play is not suited well in the NBA,but he is a very good player.


This post somewhat nullified the credibility of your other post. 
J/k ;-)


----------



## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

The guy wont be a franchise savior, but I see no problem with Bulls fans getting excited over adding possibly another solid piece to the rotation. If he ends being able to give us between good 20-30 minutes at the 3 spot, that is lightyears ahead of what we had there last season.


----------



## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> The guy wont be a franchise savior, but I see no problem with Bulls fans getting excited over adding possibly another solid piece to the rotation. If he ends being able to give us between good 20-30 minutes at the 3 spot, that is lightyears ahead of what we had there last season.


Exactly - accumalating , every good player can help us!


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Am I the only one who thinks this guy sounds like ERob without the mental baggage?


----------



## willieblack (Jun 5, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> Am I the only one who thinks this guy sounds like ERob without the mental baggage?


Funny...I was thinking the exact same thing :no:


----------



## european (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> Am I the only one who thinks this guy sounds like ERob without the mental baggage?


This guy is like ERob without the mental baggage,yep.
Another difference is Nocioni has game.


----------



## european (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bulls96</b>!
> 
> 
> Can he guard SG ?


Can Shane Battier guard SG?
Both have about the same lateral quickness.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Nocioni can NOT guard NBA sg's, just to clarify.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Nocioni can NOT guard NBA sg's, just to clarify.


In detail, what do you base this on?


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Nocioni can NOT guard NBA sg's, just to clarify.


Neither can Jamal.

:grinning:


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Nocioni can NOT guard NBA sg's, just to clarify.


Yes, but would he our best bet to guard a supersized NBA shooting guard/sometimes swingman like Kobe, McGrady, or Stephen Jackson?


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> In detail, what do you base this on?


I've only seen Nocioni play 3 times but it is fairly obvious that he's not the kind of guy hat can guard sg's. He is more of a 3/4 than a 2/3, he doesn't have enough quickness or lateral footspeed to guard most sg's in the league. He's a solid defender of sf's but asking him to guard sg's would REALLY be a stretch. I would equate asking Nocioni to guard sg's with asking Pat garrity to guard sg's. I hope that helps.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but would he our best bet to guard a supersized NBA shooting guard/sometimes swingman like Kobe, McGrady, or Stephen Jackson?


ummmm...no. Thus the statement that he can't guard shooting guards!


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but would he our best bet to guard a supersized NBA shooting guard/sometimes swingman like Kobe, McGrady, or Stephen Jackson?


Yes. By all reports, Nocioni plays physical defense and likes to man up. Why is everyone harping on lateral quickness? Artest or Harpring (a player he is often compared to) won't be winning too many agility tests... but by playing physical and getting after it they are each very good defenders.

If Nocioni has a high motor and plays physical he'll be our best bet to guard the opposing teams best wing player. He'll probably have to foul out a bunch of times... but he'll get there eventually.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes. By all reports, Nocioni plays physical defense and likes to man up. Why is everyone harping on lateral quickness? Artest or Harpring (a player he is often compared to) won't be winning too many agility tests... but by playing physical and getting after it they are each very good defenders.
> ...


If you don't trust my opinion ask someone else who has seen Nocioni play, the guy is NOT going to be guarding shooting guards...period.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> ummmm...no. Thus the statement that he can't guard shooting guards!


I said is he our best bet, not is he the best bet. In other words, do you think he'll be better than Ben Gordon or Kirk Hinrich at that task.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> I said is he our best bet, not is he the best bet. In other words, do you think he'll be better than Ben Gordon or Kirk Hinrich at that task.


No, he has the height but he's not going to be able to keep most shooting guards in front of him for long. Right now our best bet would probably be E-Rob, we really lack a good lockdown defender for sg's.


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

I don't understand how Nacioni can be lauded as one of the best athletes in Europe and then be said to not have the agility to cover people his own size.

By "athlete" do people mean "leaper"?


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Hey guys, it's tomorrow already.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TripleDouble</b>!
> I don't understand how Nacioni can be lauded as one of the best athletes in Europe and then be said to not have the agility to cover people his own size.
> 
> By "athlete" do people mean "leaper"?


Again, Nocioni is more of a 3/4 than a 2/3. He IS atheletic but he is a pretty big well built guy too. He's just not quick enough to d-up shooting guards. this isn't a scooby doo mystery gang!


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

It was tomorrow nine hours ago. 

By my calculations, we still have some tomorrow left...


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>european</b>!
> 
> This guy is like ERob without the mental baggage,yep.
> Another difference is Nocioni has game.


ERob had game, too, before he was relegated to the bench. In his better games he has shown a nice mid-range jumper (but with no outside range), hustle, an ability to defend, athleticism, and a good ability to finish at the rim.

Sounds like what people are saying about Nocioni.


----------



## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

But, Nocioni <i>goes</i> to the basket, E-rob doesn't.


----------



## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

what country is he from? anyone know


----------



## european (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> ERob had game, too, before he was relegated to the bench. In his better games he has shown a nice mid-range jumper (but with no outside range), hustle, an ability to defend, athleticism, and a good ability to finish at the rim.
> ...


Erod showed great potential in some games,but Nocioni has improved each year.He is not a 3 months wonder,Nocioni came to Spain as a unknown prospect and he has had to fight a lot to became the player he is right now.


----------



## european (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sboydell</b>!
> what country is he from? anyone know


Argentina.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Tribune



> Proving that business can get done even as the Jamal Crawford sign-and-trade talks lag, the Bulls are poised to sign free-agent forward Andres Nocioni to a *portion of their $5 million mid-level exception.*
> 
> Team sources said *contract figures have been completed* for the 6-foot-7-inch Argentinean, whose combination of aggressiveness and athletic ability has evoked comparisons with Utah's Matt Harpring.
> 
> ...


Sun-Times



> Paxson is looking closely at Argentine forward Andres Nocioni, who played in Spain last year, and is working on a deal for the talented scorer.
> 
> "If we can get a deal done, we're signing him [today],'' Paxson said Tuesday. "He's a good player who fits everything we're trying to do around here. *So we're going to have him in for the next couple of days to try to get something done.* He's 24 years old, past the draft-eligibility limit and he's never been drafted.''


----------



## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> Neither can Jamal.
> 
> :grinning:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 
point, set, match.


----------



## Gardan (Jan 7, 2004)

Nocioni has a very good physic to play in the nba. And he has also decent skills, for example his shoot is not spectacular, but it's good, and he can score without problems from the 3points line, and he has a good mid-range shoot

And he is an autentical leader.



> The only possible snag is the completion of a buyout with Tau Ceramica, the Spanish League team for which Nocioni averaged 13.7 points and 5.7 rebounds last season


I think this stats are the euroleague stats, and you must know that in spanish league his numbers were about 16 ppg and 7-8 rpg

And this numbers are numbers of star in Europe, because the matches are shorter, and coaches uses a bigger rotation of players than in America

And i dont see Nocioni playing as a SG, i think he's not fast enough

Regards


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

It's still tomorrow, guys.


----------



## beck253 (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> But Nocioni has Zero handles- None. He looks totally lost trying to dribble the ball in both open space and in tight quarters. I am serious, its a legit concern
> ...


----------



## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

I'm beginning to worry this is another CHicago media blunder.


Come on Pax, get it done. Regardless of what you think of him, he is a great addition for a team like ours.

Someone tell me the buzz in Chicago tonight is that this is finally done, buyout and all.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Growing up I learned a lesson from my father, dont count your chickens before they hatch

This offseason, while a success, has left me remembering this rule

FIrst off, media reported that Macijauskas was ours already. Hasnt happened

Second, Jamal was traded, hasnt happened, and I can say for sure it was nowhere near as close as the media made it out to be.

Third, Nocioni was supposed to be signed. But people forget one thing, Nocioni could sign for a billion dollars, but he is under contract with Tau. Exactly the same thing with Arvydas. Guess what, Tau isnt happy about letting their players go. They are playing hardball and its likely nothing will get done

On a footnote, the media said Pax targeted "vets". People are walking around like Nocioni is a vet. He isnt. he is a rookie with limited expeirence playing NBA players. Deng and Gordon are rookies. So far, no vets. Though I must admit I am impartial to younger players, so that doesnt bother me in the least bit


----------



## life_after_23 (Jul 24, 2002)

My god...this is too much media exposure. Folks are getting excited over the signiing of a relative unknown who:
1) Teams did not want to touch because he was an undersized PF (now that he has increased his range...a slightly different story)
2) Teams did not want to touch him because of the big buyout. (the problem has not gone away)
3) Plays the same position as the first round pick who's development is going to be hampered consequently.

The good news is that the Bulls will get ~10 boards, a few assists and ~15 points (maybe even a few blocks) together consistently from these two guys. Filling the stat sheet was a problem from the 3 spot last year. 

I wish Pax would spend more time trying to figure out how to motivate ERobbery into working out this off-season and getting him ready for the season. ERob could be a great backup 2-3 and the Bulls could get a high energy guy off the bench! He fills a Bulls need much more than anybody -- good mid-range, great in transition and a high energy player off the bench.

Adding so many unknowns to a team that sucked last year...great recipe for success...NOT! I just wish the Bulls had gone with 1 or 2 more quality, known role players instead of saying:

1) We hope Gordon is the undersized guard that is not a liability of the defensive end
2) We hope that Eddy Curry has turned the corner
3) We hope that Tyson has learnt fundamentals of basketball
4) We hope that Luol Deng can play well despite being just a year out of college and not having much athleticsm.
5) We hope that the creaky old fella Davis has another year where he can be productive
6) We hope improving our rebounding at the 3 spot offsets Eddy and his rebounding liabilities
7) We hope Nocini can be the inexpensive Harpring...to add to all of this!!

We can write this season off as a developmental exercise....the Bulls have too many ifs and nothing certain...adding this 24 year old to the mix might be good for a team that can take chances!! So, why bring in another project...why not let Luol cut his teeth on this season????


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> It's still tomorrow, guys.


Despite the "word has it" that started the thread, I've posted a quote from Pax that Nocioni and his agent will be around for a few days to try to get it done.

So "still tomorrow" is a bit stale.


----------



## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

The biggest issue with Nocioni is with Tau and them wanting the full buyout amonut. So, I guess that Nocioni and his agent are negotiating a buyout with Tau.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Is it the day after tomorrow yet?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Is it the day after tomorrow yet?


We're just waiting to get the whole Kobe sign and trade done with before we sign anyone else.


----------

