# LeBron and Melo



## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Why do people make such a big deal about this matchup? It seems to be the cool thing to do now to hate on bron and bring Melo up. Just look at all the rookie polls on various sites. Even in my town (yes here in sac) people say I hate James, too much hype, Melo will crush him. Is it just me or am I the only one that doesnt think Melo is in James league? Im not trying to bring Melo down but other then the consistancy of his outside shot, what does he have in his game that can hold a candle to the abilities of LeBron? I think he is a little undersized at the three in the nba (was measured at 6'6" without shoes) and definitely isnt the quickest cat at 3. He has good handles but not excelent, and was able to body people up in college and be a rebounding fiend (something I defintely dont think he will do as well in the nba). People site Melos college experience which will be the big edge over James. Sure he did the most you could do in one year but it was only one year of college ball, LeBron was a better player when both were in highschool and LeBron is definitely a better player now. I guess we shouldnt trust every scout and gm in this league..

TyGuy would rather see LeBron vs T-Mac or LeBron vs Kobe.


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## BigBadJack (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Sure he did the most you could do in one year but it was only one year of college ball, LeBron was a better player when both were in highschool and LeBron is definitely a better player now.


I don't think this is necessarily true. I think Carmelo is the better player now. Lebron is athletically superior, but Carmelo's fundamental skills are better. But, then again, it's probably like comparing Kobe vs. T-mac. Both are just so freaking talented, if one is better, it's by such a slim margin, it's hardly worth noting.


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

Melo=Glenn Robinson

It's true, it's true.....trust me.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

I think the NBA is just looking for another battle, like the old days.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Why do people make such a big deal about this matchup? It seems to be the cool thing to do now to hate on bron and bring Melo up. Just look at all the rookie polls on various sites. Even in my town (yes here in sac) people say I hate James, too much hype, Melo will crush him. Is it just me or am I the only one that doesnt think Melo is in James league? Im not trying to bring Melo down but other then the consistancy of his outside shot, what does he have in his game that can hold a candle to the abilities of LeBron? I think he is a little undersized at the three in the nba (was measured at 6'6" without shoes) and definitely isnt the quickest cat at 3. He has good handles but not excelent, and was able to body people up in college and be a rebounding fiend (something I defintely dont think he will do as well in the nba). People site Melos college experience which will be the big edge over James. Sure he did the most you could do in one year but it was only one year of college ball, LeBron was a better player when both were in highschool and LeBron is definitely a better player now. I guess we shouldnt trust every scout and gm in this league..
> 
> TyGuy would rather see LeBron vs T-Mac or LeBron vs Kobe.


Right now, Melo is definitley in Lebron's league. Other than passing, and perhaps ballhandling, Anthony is better than Lebron is every aspect in the game. As for him being undersized, I can almost garauntee you that the average size of NBA small forwards is about 6'6 without shoes, and about 6'7-6'8 with shoes, which is what Melo is. Also if you compare the success of rookies who made the jump from high school to the league, to that of rookies with a year of college experience under their belt, you will see that one year makes a huge difference. Don't get me wrong, I think Lebron has more talent and will end up being better, but right now Melo is more NBA ready.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Do you people believe Melo really improved that much in the year that LeBron was obviously hands down the better player and think LeBron did not get better at all? What fundamental skills are you talking about Jack? That is such a general statement, as i see it LeBron is a better ball handler, passer, higher basketball iq. So when you talk about fundamentals LeBron hast he edge i nthat category as well. 

Like cavstalk said, robinson is a perfect comparison for anthony. A capable scorer that isnt too fancy, not going to get the team involved as much and a decent rebounder. LeBron is pretty much exceptional at just about every aspect of the game except outside shot and defense. LeBron is considered one of the best hsers ever to play for a reason.


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## Cometsbiggestfan (May 14, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RoyWilliams</b>!
> I think the NBA is just looking for another battle, like the old days.




i agree.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

You all have to remember that up until this point LeBron has played against little boys in High School. Most of those kids will never even play college ball let alone the NBA. Melo played against the College Division 1 top ranks and brought home a Championship against guys 3 and 4 years older than him and many of which will play in the NBA. LeBron may overall be more talented but Melo is definately in his league and will be the more succesful player this year. James may pass him at some point but they ARE in the same league. I think James will be a great NBA player but the expectations for him ARE too high, he's not going to be Wilt Chamberlain or Michael Jordan, even if he turned out to be a Kobe or a T-Mac he'd be considered a dissapointment as crazy as that is. The poor kid has been set up to fail because no one can live up to the hype he has had.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CavsTalk</b>!
> Melo=Glenn Robinson
> 
> It's true, it's true.....trust me.


No doubt, and I'm glad someone other than me finally realizes this. Carmelo doesn't wanna pass, rebound, or play defense. He wants to score. Personally, I don't like this type of player. I do think Carmelo has the ability to be an all-around player but that's not his mindset. He's always come across as somewhat of a glory hog to me.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Who knows what Lebron can be, you are being really close minded saying he wont be this or that. Remember how talented he is and the fact he is considered one of the best hs players ever? Why cant he be as good or bettert hen people you listed?


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> You all have to remember that up until this point LeBron has played against little boys in High School. Most of those kids will never even play college ball let alone the NBA.


You must not of followed LeBron's team much last year, as they played like 7 of the USA Today's top 25 teams... and every one of those teams had at least 1, some 2, some 3, and some like Oak Hill have about 7-9! high school players who will get major DI offers. I think it was Columbus Brookhaven that said they had 3 starters offered major DI scholarships... I'm pretty sure their PG was accepted at Oklahoma. Oak Hill had recent players like, oh I dunno.. Carmello Anthony. I think he got a major offer somewhere. And I think I read that even some of Oak Hills better bench players got good offers.

And by the way, St. V's did beat all those top 25 teams... some by a big margin. The easiest teams St.V's finally faced, was in the Ohio High School State Tournaments. They finally faced up against teams in their own division, instead of traveling to NJ and Calif to face some of the best teams from the best "basketball factories" in the nation. So yes, James did play against "normal" high school competition, but for the past two years they have probably played the toughest high school schedule maybe ever... so to say James didn't face any D1 kids.... you're very mis-informed. 

Oh, and did you hear how he did in the ABC and Nike camps vs. high school all-stars from across the nation? I think I heard a rumor that he pretty much stood out as the best player at every camp he's attended in the last 3 years.... wonder if any of those other kids at the Nike camp got Div 1 scholarships, or jumped straight to the NBA????


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

It's a fact that Lebron was a better high school player than Carmelo, and that both of them played against great competition, but let's face it, Lebron was athletic enough to blow by every defender he faced, and strong enough to overpower everyone as well. 
What your overlooking is how much players benefit from a year of college ball. Although Lebron's high school comp. was good, it's not even close to what Melo was playing against last year. Also Melo got the benefit of top level coaching, which helped him become more fundamentally sound, which is the key to success in the league. At that age that age a year to mature both physically and mentally makes a big difference.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

good points plasticman... but just remember, the players that James was able to blow by and overpower would be many of the same type players he would've faced as a freshman in college... same as Melo.... 

I also think you and others keep forgetting that James has ALREADY played against pros even before the summer leagues.... he did it with Jordan's group, he did it with Cavs players when Lucas got fined, and he did it with Antonie Walker and his buddies. Granted, it wasn't league play... but I think James got a pretty good read about what type of individual skills he would be facing in the pros. And I bet after scrimmaging with these pros, he found that he could hang with them, and knew that the level of college ball was not where he needed to take his next growing steps.

Again, I am no way bashing Anthony. I think he could be good for a long time. I just think James has a better sense of the flow of the game, and will be a more effective player.... kinda like a John Stockton... Stockton was not gifted physically, and he didn't need to shoot a lot, but he influenced and won games by playing better within the flow of the game and with his teammates. Stockton really only had one other good (v. good) player to run with, and 3 other "average" NBA bodies, yet they still managed to be very successful. How could that be? One really good stud, 3 decent fill-ins, and one floor general making the right play at the right time. 

That will be the biggest, most clearest difference between James and Anthony. Anthony might even put up better numbers, but I think James will be considered a better player.... kinda like comparing Dominique Wilkens to Larry Bird. Dominique was awesome, and could score 40+ whenever he wanted too... but 95 out of 100 people who follow a lot of basketball would say Bird was clearly the better player. Why? Because Bird played a more intuitive game involving more of his teammates, and yet still managed to put up really, really good numbers.

Time will tell.


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

Why do people keep bringing up fundamentals with Melo??? He isn't sound at it.

He is an undersized 3. He is the exact mold as Glenn Robinson. He will get his 20 PPG, it won't be pretty, it won't be nice but he will get it. He won't be anything special on D. He won't be a star player, he won't be a year in and year out All-Star, maybe a couple appearances. But over all, he will have a long good career. Not great.

Lebron is already ahead of him fundamentally. Lebron can HANDLE so much better than Mello, he can pass 5000x better.

The college helped, no doubt. But they will be neck and neck....the only thing Melo gained from college that Bron doesnt have is the exposure, the coaching part of it. He has already learned some things other teams tried to do to stop him, he just has to take that to the next level. Lebron has to learn what teams will try to do to him. Melo has had good coaching, Lebron, with Dambrot had alright, with Joyce, terrible coaching.

Will Lebron be better?? Who cares.....it's not about who is better. It's about what team is better...most likely that will be the Cavs, the West is a much tougher conference. I think you will see the Cavs progress more as a team than Denver.
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also Mongo.....you are wrong, Stock had two players. Jeff Hornacek was a very good SG, one of the leagues best 3 PT shooters ever. He was a solid 15-20 PPG for his career.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CavsTalk</b>!
> Why do people keep bringing up fundamentals with Melo??? He isn't sound at it.
> 
> He is an undersized 3. He is the exact mold as Glenn Robinson. He will get his 20 PPG, it won't be pretty, it won't be nice but he will get it. He won't be anything special on D. He won't be a star player, he won't be a year in and year out All-Star, maybe a couple appearances. But over all, he will have a long good career. Not great.
> ...


He is not undersized, he is 6'7-6'8 w/ shoes, which pretty much the standard small forward height.

There is a lot more to fundamentals than ball-handling and passing. Anthony is a much better shooter, he has a better understanding of how to play team defense, and he gets better rebounding position, I could keep going but I think you get my point. Lebron may a better ball-handler, but not a lot. As far as passing goes Lebron is clearly better, but Melo has proven that he knows how to get his teamates involved and pass out of double teams. I really don't see how you can argue that Lebron is more fundamentally sound in any area other than passing and ballhandling.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

If Carmelo Anthony has the right mind-set (which I don't think he does) then he could very well be the better player throught-out their careers. Right now LeBron James is just more talented. He really isn't fundamentally sound IMO: his shot is overrated, he won't be able to rebound over bigger opponents at the same position, he will get toasted by any other SF in the League, the list goes on. But like I stated, if he has the right mind-set he should be able to correct most of these areas and be an excellent player but his lack of team-spirit will hamper him.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>plasticman23</b>!
> 
> 
> He is not undersized, he is 6'7-6'8 w/ shoes, which pretty much the standard small forward height.
> ...


 Carmelo was 6'7" with shoes would defintely be among the smaller sf's in height in the league with 6'6" pretty much being the minimum. Anthony is not a much better shooter but more consistant. LeBron would find himself in a zone a lot of times and like the greats he would make it from inside and outside all day logn and couldnt be stopped. LeBron is a better ball handler not maybe (one of the reasons they tried him at pg with his passing being the #1 reason). The only d Melo played was a zone defense in syracuse you think he will play much of that in the nba (by the way he wasnt the best defender on that team). Last but not least Melo played down low on the zone so its much easier to get into better possition to rebound, something Lebron would be better at anyway being stronger and more athletic.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Carmelo was 6'7" with shoes would defintely be among the smaller sf's in height in the league with 6'6" pretty much being the minimum. Anthony is not a much better shooter but more consistant. LeBron would find himself in a zone a lot of times and like the greats he would make it from inside and outside all day logn and couldnt be stopped.


He had even more days were he made under 30% of his outside shots.



> LeBron is a better ball handler not maybe (one of the reasons they tried him at pg with his passing being the #1 reason).


Lebron is a better ballhandler, but Carmelo is a pretty good one as well.



> The only d Melo played was a zone defense in syracuse you think he will play much of that in the nba (by the way he wasnt the best defender on that team).


I watched a lot of Cuse' games, and they did play man defense at times, and worked on it a lot in practice.



> Last but not least Melo played down low on the zone so its much easier to get into better possition to rebound, something Lebron would be better at anyway being stronger and more athletic.


There is a lot more to rebounding than strength and athleticism. Right now Melo has better instincts, and knows how to get position.

What makes Melo a more polished player is the overall basketball knowledge he got from playing college ball.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

None of us are experts, but people involved heavily in the college and pro game should be considered "experts", and how come you all discount what is repeated over and over about James... the experts all say that he has that "something special"... that inate ability to play the game at a higher level than most... his intuitive ability to see the floor/play develop sooner than anyone else... the killer instinct... the ability to raise his game up another notch when circumstances require.

These aren't things the normal internet posters are saying, these are things said by people who made their millions, or are making their millions by their involvement in the college and pro games. They also say good things about Carmello, but there is a reason people use superlatives in comparing LeBron to players like Magic or MJ... not because of their (Magic and MJ's) rings or stats, but by the way they played the game.

I'm just plain excited to see how this unfolds. I've seen James plenty of times on televised HS games, I'm obviously a Cavs fan, and I am totally stoked to watch this kid's career develop in my own back yard. Again, there is a reason why "experts" hype this kid, why scouts are floored by his play, why he helped his team win 3 of 4 HS championships in a row (with the one loss in the championship game to a stud-loaded team that overwhelmed James's teammates).

And besides, I for one don't really care about any head-to-head comparisons with Carmello, anymore than I care about head-to-head comparisons between Kobe and TMac, Shaq and Duncan, etc. Hope your boy does good, but I ain't cheering for him. I'm cheering for my team, and the players on it. If you think your boy is better... good on you. Whatever. I'm QUITE pleased we took who we took, and I think EVERY other Cavs fans, and most NBA league officials are happy we took him too. If nothing else, he kept this franchise in Cleveland... and if the Denver franchise was in danger of moving, I don't think them picking Carmello would've prevented the move.... I'll say this too... I bet the % of season ticket increase is greater from last year in Cleveland than in Denver. Carmello may be money, but LeBron is gold.


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## BigBadJack (Jun 24, 2003)

> None of us are experts, but people involved heavily in the college and pro game should be considered "experts", and how come you all discount what is repeated over and over about James... the experts all say that he has that "something special"... that inate ability to play the game at a higher level than most... his intuitive ability to see the floor/play develop sooner than anyone else... the killer instinct... the ability to raise his game up another notch when circumstances require.


Well, I do remember shortly after the NCAA Finals, many "experts" said they would have taken Carmelo 1st in the draft. One of those guys was Michael Jordan. I don't care who is better or who is not. Give Carmelo his due.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> And besides, I for one don't really care about any head-to-head comparisons with Carmello, anymore than I care about head-to-head comparisons between Kobe and TMac, Shaq and Duncan, etc. Hope your boy does good, but I ain't cheering for him. I'm cheering for my team, and the players on it. If you think your boy is better... good on you. Whatever. I'm QUITE pleased we took who we took, and I think EVERY other Cavs fans, and most NBA league officials are happy we took him too. If nothing else, he kept this franchise in Cleveland... and if the Denver franchise was in danger of moving, I don't think them picking Carmello would've prevented the move.... I'll say this too... I bet the % of season ticket increase is greater from last year in Cleveland than in Denver. Carmello may be money, but LeBron is gold.



No doubt, Lebron has more hype surrounding him. However, I think your underestimating how much Melo means to this franchise. I live near Denver and people can't stop talking about him. While it may not be as extreme as in Cleveland, but the city has never been this exited about basketball, and it's all because of Carmelo. If it weren't for Lebron and Darko I think more people would realize how special this guy is. Leading your team to the national championship as a freshman! That's huge. In almost any other draft Melo would've gone first, and like BigBadJack said there are some experts that say they would take him over Lebron.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

I would like to see a quote form Michael stating that.. Also what experts besides ncaa analysts made comments like that?


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>plasticman23</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Leading your team to the national championship as a freshman! That's huge. In almost any other draft Melo would've gone first,


Absolutely. I agree 100%, but I also agree with the 2nd part... in any other year, he might've gone first. Read your own sentance... Carmello has a MONSTER year, and he is still not #1... that's just not because of media hype. Again, hope he does really well, but I'm glad we got who we got.

And no, I did not realize that getting him meant so much to the franchise. Why is that? He has no connection to Colorado? Sure hope that his hype doesn't undercut his chances for success there.

As for Michael Jordan's talent opinion... he showed that with the Wiz... it ain't very good. I think there's probably more than a little jealousy on his part, maybe rightly so. LeBron said he wanted to emmulate MJ... he takes #23.... he is annointed the new saviour before he even plays 1 second.... don't you get the impression that MJ wishes he was 10 years younger, so that he could still play and he would love to be on the court vs LeBron and blow him up for 50 points on one end and try to shut him down on the other and then get in his head about it? There is no doubt in my mind.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

The hype is simply because he is such a highly regarded player. He is certaintly the best thing to happen to the Nuggets since..., well since I've been alive.

On MJ's comment...I just think any old-school player cringes when he sees a teenager being so highly regarded when he hasn't really earned it yet. As for his GM capabilities, time will tell. If the Wizards have a successful season, he must be given some credit. If Kwame ends up being the monster he could be, and all the other young players he brought in live up to their full potential, the Wizards have MJ to thank.

I can definintly understand why you are happy you got Lebron, instead of Carmelo. From a basketball standpoint, I would probably feel the same way. But I just can't stand how people write Melo off as the next Glenn Robinson, simply because he 's a scorer and isn't a freak athletically.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

And what is wrong with being the next big dog? He was taken #1 and has consistently put up 20 a game his entire career.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

Yeah, he's put a 20ppg throughout his career, but he's done nothing else. If thats all Carmelo amounts to thats fine, but I will be dissapointed, and I don't I would be the only one.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Glenn Robinson kind of failed to live up to being the first Glenn Robinson. He could have been(hell he could still be) a lot better than he was. So keep that in mind with your comparisons of Melo to Robinson. Robinson's biggest problem has been the head on his shoulders, not the talent. So if Melo's got that talent but a better head on his shoulders he could be VERY good and that comparison could still be accurate on some levels.

Lebron represents a whole diffrent world of potential though. There's a reason this kid has been talked about in NBA reports for 2 years now.

People are backlashing to the hype now, which means that right now a lot of people are underrating him where before they may have been overrating him. Which is better for him.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> And what is wrong with being the next big dog? He was taken #1 and has consistently put up 20 a game his entire career.


Yeah, I just don't see how being a consistent 20+ ppg scorer in the NBA is an insult. I will give Carmello some additional credit however, I believe that he is the kind of player that you run the offense through rather than having him fit into your offense. That alone makes him a bit more special than Big Dog. 

Has anyone noticed how much more humble James is than Carmello?


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> Has anyone noticed how much more humble James is than Carmello?


You can't say that, unless you know both of them personally.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>plasticman23</b>!
> 
> 
> You can't say that, unless you know both of them personally.


That is true, but at least to the media James seems far more humble.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Carmello said he should probably be the rookie of the year, and should average 20+ points per game. And after his first day of practice, he said that he was a pretty good player.

After his first day of practice, James was saying what a difference a 30 game HS schedule vs an 82 game pro schedule is, and that he knows his teammates will help him keep his head on straight. He also talked about wanting to help bring a winning attitude, and how he knows he is a role player and that the leaders are Z and Ricky. Then he mentioned how he has to get doughnuts (a rookie hazing thing for Cavs rooks) and wishes there was a Dunkin' Doughnuts at the Gund.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

and...


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I definitely see a difference between how the media treats LeBron and Carmelo.

If LeBron was constantly saying he was the best player in the draft and a lock for Rookie of the Year, he would be assasinated (character-wise by the print). In a sense, it's easier to be Carmello. You can talk the talk, spew some trash (with charisma but still hot-dog-it) and get away with it.

LeBron is so humble, he reminds me of boxer Shane Mosley (never says anything bad) and Carmelo would be James Tony (you love the sound bites but good gracious). Haha


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> I would like to see a quote form Michael stating that.. Also what experts besides ncaa analysts made comments like that?


http://www.democratandchronicle.com/sports/general/0420story3_general.shtml



> Now, after Anthony averaged 22.2 points and 10 rebounds while leading Syracuse to the national title, some people -- *Michael Jordan among them* -- think Carmelo might be the best prospect.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Here are the results of a recent gm survey who are the best at recognizing talent. 81 % agreed Lebron would be rookie of the year. 81 % also agree Lebron would be the best player in 5 years(melo getting 5% of the votes), Dwayne Wade interestingly got 10 %. 33% agreed LeBron would make the biggest impact out of all off season aquisitions with gary payton getting 19 %. 33% of gms agreed as a team the cavs would be the most improved team. While 14 % agreed the cavs would be the most fun team to watch behind the kings and the mavs. Thats a much better source then any biased sports writers will dish out.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gm_survey_results_031014.html


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## MDTS and MCTS (Sep 2, 2003)

Micheal Jordan? isn't that the guy who Drafted Kwame Brown?


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>fairweather fan</b>!
> Micheal Jordan? isn't that the guy who Drafted Kwame Brown?


nah


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Here are the results of a recent gm survey who are the best at recognizing talent. 81 % agreed Lebron would be rookie of the year.


The highest PPG total ever for an 18 year old rookie is Kobe's 7.6 ppg.

That should put some things in perspective.

He'll probably log more minutes than Kobe did, but just look at tonights game. 4-18 shooting. He has no jumper, and he doesn't draw contact when he goes to the lane. He'll get some rebs, and he'll probably get 5 apg depending on how much time he logs (as well as 3 turnovers minimum), but Carmelo is just going to put up better stats this year. Melo is a better scorer and rebounder, and he's being set up by Andre Miller, one of the best distributors in the league. Pardon me while I laugh at what GMs say. If GMs are so smart, then why was Amare taken 9th?


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> The highest PPG total ever for an 18 year old rookie is Kobe's 7.6 ppg.
> ...


Maybe all the owners should fire their gms and recruit people from this board :laugh:


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