# Off-Season Task 1: Point Guard



## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Ok figure we may aswell go position by position on what we have and want/need for next season, first up the Point Guards.

Under Contract for Next Season:
Rajon Rondo: 10.6ppg, 5.1apg, 4.2rpg, 1.7spg
Gabe Pruitt: 2.1ppg, 0.9apg in 6.3mpg, 15 games played

Players Off-Contract: 
Eddie House: 7.5ppg, 2apg, 2rpg
Sam Cassell: 7.6ppg in 18 minutes and 17 games for the celtics

At this point Rondo is obviously embedded at the starting spot, and i expect him to improve with his confidence going up after this season.
He will probably get a couple more minutes per game and his scoring/assist numbers will probably up slightly.

I think Pruitt will come in to the season as the third string point, playing the majority of the games with 5-10 minutes a night, he will do fine in limited time and could also have quite a few big minute games if we are well infront.

Now we look at the back up point spot

Cassell is obviously an option, but he seemed to do more harm then good and looks likely to go to denver to re-unite with Karl and move into a coaching role.

House is obviously a good team mate, likes being here and the team likes him... worries are still there about his actual point guard skills, dribbling especially. hes apparently looking for a long term deal which could be a bad thing... obviously he could also be kept around as a third string SG if we have a spot

Other options.. basically we assume posey is going to take the MLE, so the LLE and vet min come into play

Marbury may be bought out, obviously the most talented but he is a headcase, could KG keep him inline, and would he settle for hugely reduced minutes?

Tyronne Lue has been discussed, solid all round player, friends with Garnett, decent enough shooter

Duhon is also available and looks like he'd fit in just fine

Jason Williams off contract from Miami, isnt great defensively but on offense seems to fit great, good shooter and passer.. but other teams may offer him more


So.... who do you guys want to see in that back up spot next season?


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

I would add Keyon Dooling, Lindsey Hunter and Jannero Pargo to the list. I don't think Pargo would settle for the amount of money we have to offer but Hunter and especially Dooling might.

I feel like Dooling and Lue have to be the favorites.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I think PG would be my third priority this offseason. Our off-season movement needs to start with getting James Posey back under contract. Second priority should be getting a legit backup for Perkins as there isn't one on the roster at the moment. Atleast with Rondo, we have Pruitt behind him. That's not much, but its something.

Lue and Duhon would be my picks to backup Rondo.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Dooling and Hunter are more good options, and while i do agree its not the most important thing of the off-season it will definately be addressed


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

now dont flame cause for now im just going to put all options up but tinsley may be bought out if they cant find a suitable trade


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Let's synthesize the coming flames. just say no to JT.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

yeah pretty much lol


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Ya'll can have Jason Kidd for Rondo and 1 week of trophy sitting


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

negative


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I agree with agoo. Posey and a backup center are our biggest needs.

But anyways, I really like House. He's just incredible from the 3 point line, and he's as good of a teammate that you can find. He was instrumental in our comeback, and that says a lot about him as a player. And Pruitt can step in as a PG who can handle pressure. If we can't retain House, the best options are Duhon, Hunter, and Lue, in that order.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I actually think we should keep house, but we need someone to fill cassell's role as the vet point guard who is a point first.. and purely a shooter


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## pokpok (Jul 26, 2005)

i say keep eddie house, i like the idea how having ray allen bring the ball up when eddie house is in.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

> The Celtics hope to sign a veteran backup point guard to a one-year, veteran minimum contract, an NBA source said. Candidates include Eddie House, who would return for a second season with Boston, Dallas's Tyronn Lue, Orlando's Keyon Dooling, Miami's Jason Williams, and Chicago's Chris Duhon.


http://www.boston.com/sports/basket...07/02/celtics_extend_offer_to_maggette?page=2


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

If bought out, Marbury could be an option for an one-year contract. I believe that KG can keep him in control.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

^ i actually agree to an extent.. i wouldnt think most people would though, after seeing what cassell was doing it is a concern he could be exactly the same


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Lue has his choices down to boston, dallas and the suns FWIW


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

you guys should have stolen Mario Chalmers at the end of the first round. Buying Walker was a good move, but you could have done the same with Giddens, whom was a surprise in the first round.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Possibly, but you never know if the team who took him would be willing to trade for cash, Ainge obviously knew he was taking him, getting Walker was a bonus he was thinking no doubt but was never a sure thing.

I actually really like Lue as Cassell's replacement


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I like Lue also.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Hes also very good friends with KG, which doesnt hurt


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Is it possible to get Delonte West?

There were a good number of times during that playoff run where I was certain Rondo was going to cost us our chance at a chip. The 18 minute games where he's benched in favor of Sam Cassell absolutely cannot happen again. He had some great games in the playoffs, but I still don't like him at the one and I'm still not sold we can win another chip unless he improves his jumper dramatically.


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## Ainge for 3 (May 23, 2007)

P-Dub34 said:


> Is it possible to get Delonte West?
> 
> There were a good number of times during that playoff run where I was certain Rondo was going to cost us our chance at a chip. The 18 minute games where he's benched in favor of Sam Cassell absolutely cannot happen again. He had some great games in the playoffs, but I still don't like him at the one and I'm still not sold we can win another chip unless he improves his jumper dramatically.


Why would Delonte want to be a backup in Boston when he's a starter with Cleveland? The Cs would have to offer an enormous amount of money to have it make sense for Cleveland to not match it, since he'd be going to a hated conference rival.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Ainge for 3 said:


> Why would Delonte want to be a backup in Boston when he's a starter with Cleveland? The Cs would have to offer an enormous amount of money to have it make sense for Cleveland to not match it, since he'd be going to a hated conference rival.


I wasn't being serious, but I'll say the same thing I said since the trade - West fits in better with this group than Rondo. Obviously, I can't really complain, but I'm still not sold on Rondo like everybody else seems to. Like I said, we can't be having a starting point guard getting outplayed by Eddie House or Sam Cassell and riding the bench for thirty-five minutes a game in the playoffs, and we all know there are four or five (if not more) games Rondo didn't show up at all that could've cost the Celtics the title.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Stephon Marbury to Boston link inside...*

I think this may actully be a good pickup for you guys. http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/2008/07/jettisoning-marbury-is-positiv.html


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Merged these, as all the article says is


> In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up on Miami or becomes a back-up with San Antonio or Boston.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

No Marbury. Please. No.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I wouldnt think theres any chance of it happening, someone like Lue will be picked up before the Marbury saga has finished in NY


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> I wasn't being serious, but I'll say the same thing I said since the trade - West fits in better with this group than Rondo. Obviously, I can't really complain, but I'm still not sold on Rondo like everybody else seems to. Like I said, we can't be having a starting point guard getting outplayed by Eddie House or Sam Cassell and riding the bench for thirty-five minutes a game in the playoffs, and we all know there are four or five (if not more) games Rondo didn't show up at all that could've cost the Celtics the title.


I agree with you here. Celtics fans celebrated Rondo's game six "breakout" scoring 21 points on 20 shots _with no one guarding him_. Frankly the performance was downright Walkerian (which might be why #1AWF loves the kid so much). Thankfully the rest of the team played so well that they didn't really need anything from Rondo, but I agree that he hurts the offense more than he helps at times (by dominating the ball and reducing Pierce to floor-spacing shooter and Ray Allen to a corner trey specialist). Here's hoping that Pruitt makes major strides next year, because that seems to be the only long-term upgrade that anyone's going to consider.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

never know... rondo could make offensive strides over the off-season, dudes still young


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

What would be nice is to have a fat expirer to send Rondo + said expirer to Chicago for Hinrich, and hope Paxson still values youth more than winning basketball games.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Hinrich isn't much of a shooter. Pity that they couldn't have worked out a three way deal with Rondo going to New York, #6 to Minnesota and OJ Mayo to Boston. He'd complement this group and can really D it up.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I would have died from cheering if that happened... damn that team would be nasty


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> I agree with you here. Celtics fans celebrated Rondo's game six "breakout" scoring 21 points on 20 shots _with no one guarding him_. Frankly the performance was downright Walkerian (which might be why #1AWF loves the kid so much).


People keep concentrating on his offense, but what was truly helpful in that game (and most other games) was his defense. He actually creates offensive opportunities with his defense, whether getting a steal, forcing a bad pass, running people into another defender, or forcing a bad shot. The Celtics are built on defense, and in that regard, Rondo fits in. 

Also, the offense does tend to sputter when Rondo's off the floor. When House or Cassell were in, you'd just have to hope they hit their shots because they weren't pushing the ball and distributing like Rondo. Sure, Rondo could be better at getting other guys the ball, but he was still the best PG on the team at doing it. That's not to say he shouldn't work to improve more, but realistically, I don't think there are many options out there that would be a step up for replacing him. I think there are good options out there for backing him up, though. 

I honestly think if Rondo improved at finishing at the basket, his critics would calm down. He missed so many gimmes that most players would get. The kid can get by just about anybody and get a clear shot at a layup. That's a better shot than anyone else could get, but he just doesn't seem to be able to finish consistently. I wouldn't mind if he shot more than anyone on the team if it were two points every time. That also makes defenders think twice about sticking with their man and not coming to help. Then Rondo can dish to the open man once the easy two is no longer there. 

Rondo is not perfect, but I think his positives outweigh his negatives. Remember, this was only his second year. He's no Chris Paul or Deron Williams, but he can play with any of the elite point guards in the league. In fact, he outplayed many of them head to head.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

mrsister said:


> Also, the offense does tend to sputter when Rondo's off the floor. When House or Cassell were in, you'd just have to hope they hit their shots because they weren't pushing the ball and distributing like Rondo. Sure, Rondo could be better at getting other guys the ball, but he was still the best PG on the team at doing it. That's not to say he shouldn't work to improve more, but realistically, I don't think there are many options out there that would be a step up for replacing him. I think there are good options out there for backing him up, though.


The offense spent the entire second half of last season sputtering when the team took the ball out of Pierce and Allen's hands and put it into Rondo's. Early in the season, when Rondo was still an afterthought, the Celtics thwapped opponents on both ends of the floor. As the offense ran through Rondo they _had_ to beat teams defensively because it was the only way they could. Their best offensive performances of the postseason came when Pierce was running the offense.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Hinrich isn't much of a shooter.


We must be talking about two different players. For his career he's 38% from beyond the arc and let's not forget just two years ago he shot 41% on 300+ attempts from three. The guy can shoot the rock. The lowest 3PP he's ever shot was 35%, with seasons of 39% (369 attempts), 36% (408 attempts), 37% (341 attempts), 41% (337 attempts), and 35% (240 attempts). If that constitues not being much of a shooter, I don't know what to call the rest of the league. Kirk Hinrich is a good shooter. He's an All-NBA defender. When the Heat won it a coupla years ago, Hinrich was the only guy that even bothered Wade all playoffs. He's also an above average playmaker. Getting him here would be one of the best things that could happen to the Celtics.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I agree that he would be a good fit.... but next to impossible to happen


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> I agree that he would be a good fit.... but next to impossible to happen


I think it actually would be impossible. But I made a thread about getting Posey and he signed in short order so...make it happen, Ainge! Delonte West was Hinrich-lite already. Better shooter, gritty defender. Rondo will be the better player, but West fit in with this group exponentially better because he doesn't dominate the ball, hits [clutch] shots, and plays gritty defense.



> People keep concentrating on his offense, but what was truly helpful in that game (and most other games) was his defense. He actually creates offensive opportunities with his defense, whether getting a steal, forcing a bad pass, running people into another defender, or forcing a bad shot. The Celtics are built on defense, and in that regard, Rondo fits in.


He can't play defense when he's benched because defenses pay more attention to Sam ****ing Cassell than him.



> The kid can get by just about anybody and get a clear shot at a layup.


I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I didn't see him getting by too many people when they were giving him fifteen feet of cushion because he was either too scared to hit a shot or just plain couldn't.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I still think the shot will get better, rondo brings an energy and quickness that few to no players can bring, chasing down rebounds especially... it may not be pretty but he got the job done, and if he can get that mid range shot to fall with some consistency we could see a big season from him


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> We must be talking about two different players. For his career he's 38% from beyond the arc and let's not forget just two years ago he shot 41% on 300+ attempts from three. The guy can shoot the rock. The lowest 3PP he's ever shot was 35%, with seasons of 39% (369 attempts), 36% (408 attempts), 37% (341 attempts), 41% (337 attempts), and 35% (240 attempts). If that constitues not being much of a shooter, I don't know what to call the rest of the league. Kirk Hinrich is a good shooter. He's an All-NBA defender. When the Heat won it a coupla years ago, Hinrich was the only guy that even bothered Wade all playoffs. He's also an above average playmaker. Getting him here would be one of the best things that could happen to the Celtics.


Obviously we're talking about two different guys, because the one I'm thinking of had an aFG% 30 points below the league average. His PP/FGA number was a robust 1.002 vs. the league average of 1.081. So the one I'm thinking of isn't much of a shooter. Good defender, but not worth anywhere near that contract of his. Because those are his run of the mill numbers, the only year he outperformed the league average was his contract year.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

P-Dub34 said:


> I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I didn't see him getting by too many people when they were giving him fifteen feet of cushion because he was either too scared to hit a shot or just plain couldn't.


Well, of course he can't get by someone who's fifteen feet away. That's a matter of him having the confidence to hit his jumpshot. His jumpshot is actually decent now. It's the confidence to shoot it that's his problem. When he is defended closely, he can get by his defender. That's why you see him blow so many layups - he gets to the basket. I watched nearly every single game this season. If you didn't see him getting past his defender numerous times, I don't know what you were watching. I'm not talking about him hesitating on his jumpshot. I'm not denying he does that. The way I see it, both these problems aren't that hard to fix. Layups are pretty easy. And confidence usually keeps going up the longer you are in the league. His confidence actually improved this year. Last year, he wouldn't have taken a lot of the shots he took. Plus, he shot over 49% for the season. 

I just keep seeing conflicting complaints from people - he's shooting too much, he's not shooting enough, he's passing too much, he's not passing enough. You guys say you want Pierce and Allen to run the offense, yet in the past, Pierce was criticized for handling the ball too much. And whenever Allen ran the offense this season, he usually dribbled the ball way too much. I think you guys are concentrating on the half court offense and not acknowledging that Rondo is the only guy who really pushes the ball in transition. And in the half court, people tend to stand around when Rondo's not on the court. The offense usually consisted of Cassell, House, Posey, KG, Pierce, or Allen shooting a long jumpshot unless Pierce created his own shot or KG got the ball in the post. The ball movement was significantly diminished without Rondo. House is someone who doesn't dominate the ball, and yet the offense was almost never as good with him at the point. I just don't see why people are so down on Rondo when he was such a major contributor to the championship run. You can wax poetic about Delonte West, but I honestly don't think they would've won it all with him running the point all season.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

The offense was very good with Eddie House in at the point. That put the ball into Pierce's hands, which is the best way you can go. House spread the floor so Pierce and Garnett could actually operate without having a roamer come and disrupt their offense.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Ummm Lamar, whenever a team pressed Eddie House, we repeatedly turned the ball over. Did you watch the Cleveland/Detroit series?


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Rondo is an incredible defender (yes, better than Hinrich) and an NBA champion starting PG, so let's be happy with him. His FG%s are important even if they are inflated due to the easy shots he takes. The fact is he doesn't miss many shots. He needs to keep shooting in my opinion. Even if they're not falling at first. If I can make wide open jumpers, I'm pretty sure Rajon will too by next season. Hell he carried us in one of those Cleveland games.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

No he didn't.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Obviously we're talking about two different guys, because the one I'm thinking of had an aFG% 30 points below the league average. His PP/FGA number was a robust 1.002 vs. the league average of 1.081.


I knew you'd go with the fancy stats. Not interested in his points per FGA's, because he's pretty much exclusively a jump shooter, so it's bound to be fairly low. Chicago's entire offense is shooting jumpers.. I don't care about his aFG% or his PPFGA or his JAUHHDBH7732. 38% career 3PP on as many attempts as he takes is enough to validate the fact that he can shoot the rock. Not to mention what you see with your own to eyes. He's not an elite jumpshooter but you're seriously reaching by saying he isn't much of a shooter. Hinrich would fit in here, he'd knock down open shots, and he'd play All-NBA D.

And I agree, he's not worth the contract, but if you're paying Kevin Garnett and Pierce $40 mill+ a year, who the hell cares?



> Rondo is an incredible defender (yes, better than Hinrich)


I'd love to see Rajon Rondo go up against a 2005 playoffs-model Dwyane Wade and hold him to 25ppg on 45% shooting over a six game series. Remeber we're talking about a guy who, outside that series, shot 51% and averaged 30ppg.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Hinrich does better from behind the arc than he generally does making seemingly easier shots. He's not efficient at all.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Premier said:


> Hinrich does better from behind the arc than he generally does making seemingly easier shots. He's not efficient at all.


I'm not saying Kirk Hinrich = efficiency, even though his efficiency would certainly go up as he would be the fourth option on the floor, not the first or second like he's been most of his career. I don't know why I even brought it up, considering it will never happen, but I can't think of many non All-Stars that would fit in on this team better than Kirk. The point I'm arguing is that Hinrich is a good shooter. Just because Hinrich doesn't net a ton of points per FGA doesn't mean he's a bad shot. Too many other variables. What remains undeniable is that the guy has averaged over four 3PA's per game his career and he's hit at 38%. I don't care how many Hollinger-esque stats you guys find, bad shooters don't shoot like that. They just don't, I'm sorry.


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## sasaint (Jun 28, 2005)

I think many Celtics fans are too impatient with Rondo. Tony Parker came into the league with nothing more than acrobatic drives to the hole, but he has since developed a very nice mid-range jumper. It just requires work. I think Rondo could do the same thing. He will only get better.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Except that Parker was always a pretty good finisher. That is absolutely not true of Rondo.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

he especially needs to start finishing that fake-behind the back lay up he always goes for, he burns the D then misses the gimme at the end lol


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Lol, I hear ya

He always knows how to screw up such a nice move like that by missing his layup.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

I have a feeling that Lue is a lock to sign with Phoenix.



Some Free Agents I want Boston to look at are Anthony Johnson and Jason Williams. 

Actually Jason Williams can shoot, he can run an offense very effectively, and his D is OK. 


Jason Williams would be an excellent backup.


Anthony Johnson is solid.


Keyon Dooling is garbage!


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

One more note on Rondo- he LOVES taking his short shots with one hand and they rarely seem to fall for him.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

His floater? Thats one of his more high percentage shots. Its a good move that a lot of the successful guards in this league use- Parker, Nash, Wade, Terry...


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

His floater is good. It's when he tries to spin it off the glass that he usually misses. It has too much on it, and unless there's another Celtic behind him, it's pretty much a turnover. As I've said before, though, that's something he can fix pretty easily if he sets his mind to it. Either that or just dunk it every time. He doesn't miss those.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Actually Jason Williams can shoot, he can run an offense very effectively, and his D is OK.


His defense is nothing short of nonexistent.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I think Williams will sign with Orlando anyway (which i think is a good move for them)


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

> The point guard is coming off a fine season with the Orlando Magic, but he is now weighing up whether or not to remain with the team or accept one of the offers he says are on the table from several other NBA teams.
> 
> Arroyo has a chance to sign with Boston, Denver, Miami, Cleveland or Golden State.


http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/26502/arti.html

However its just a fiba article, and that comment was just in passing while talking about something else so i dont think its a legit offer


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

LamarButler said:


> His floater? Thats one of his more high percentage shots. Its a good move that a lot of the successful guards in this league use- Parker, Nash, Wade, Terry...



I agree, but I will say that his inexperience led to him resorting to the floater far too often from the wrong spots on the floor.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

> Free agent point guard Tyronn Lue has narrowed his list of preferred destinations down to three, according to The South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
> 
> He would like to sign on with either the Heat, Suns, or Celtics.
> 
> ...


via realgm


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53591/20080715/lue_to_decide_between_suns_and_celtics/


> He will decide between Phoenix and Boston.


Pheonix do appear to be front runners though


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3491677

Marbury looking likely to be bought out


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/120954


> Tyronn Lue has agreed to a two-year contract with the Milwaukee Bucks, Lue’s agent, Andy Miller, informed the Suns on Wednesday.
> 
> Lue will make $3.9 million – the same total Anthony Johnson, another Phoenix target, took from Orlando on Tuesday.


Damn!


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## G-Force (Jan 4, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> I agree with you here. Celtics fans celebrated Rondo's game six "breakout" scoring 21 points on 20 shots _with no one guarding him_. Frankly the performance was downright Walkerian (which might be why #1AWF loves the kid so much). Thankfully the rest of the team played so well that they didn't really need anything from Rondo, but I agree that he hurts the offense more than he helps at times (by dominating the ball and reducing Pierce to floor-spacing shooter and Ray Allen to a corner trey specialist). Here's hoping that Pruitt makes major strides next year, because that seems to be the only long-term upgrade that anyone's going to consider.


There were at least a couple of games during the playoffs when I was surprised at just how much Rondo was playing *un*like a PG. He's got at least two of the big three on the court with him most of the time, and he was driving and jacking up shots instead of distributing the ball. With those three guys, he ought to be focusing on setting them up instead of being one of the main shooters.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

i really do think marbury could be on his way to boston, seems like its just a matter of time til NY buys him out

i dunno i get the same vibe with how the team and media are dealing with it as we had with Cassell last season


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