# Oden vs Noah



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

It's pretty obvious that Noah missed a chance to cash in on his fame from the final 4 last year and it looks like he will be lucky to go in the top 5, as a matter of fact i have him going 7th for what that's worth.

Oden is an intimidating force, he has 2 fouls at the half and probably should have 3. You arent going to make a living taking it right at him, at least at this level but in space he looks a little lumbering, but i doubt he is in 100% shape yet. Thing with Oden is he's going #1 so to critique his game is almost meaningless.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oden just REJECTED Noah! HUGE block on the dunk! Especially since he was recovering from just blocking Corey Brewer. Oden at the start of the second half is really starting to look like the guy I know.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Noah has looked good lets not get carried away. Oden is the better defensive player though


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

This is why Oden needs to go pro. The refs kill you at this level, if you're too big. He's been getting slapped all game long.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

With the NBA going to a more fast paced game and the C being more like 7 foot SF's Oden may find himself at a disadvantage at first.

He looks winded out there. Florida has the two best floor running big men in the game.

Is this a sign of things to come? I wouldn't worry about it to much if Oden goes to a half court team, but it may be a problem if he cant get his stamina up.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HKF said:


> This is why Oden needs to go pro. The refs kill you at this level, if you're too big. He's been getting slapped all game long.


At least he wont take any contact at the pro level(yeah right), thing is he should have had a couple of more fouls than he did but got a pass. He seemed to be a little slow moving the puppies out in space but the kid cant be in the best shape yet.Clearly the best player out there that is not up for discussion. The guy i was sort of impressed with was Horford, he's out of shape but he played with authority. Noah is sliding as we speak.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

An uptempo style team might not be to Oden's advantage


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

Oden with 7 points and what, one board? He didn't exactly dominate either. He's still the lock to be the top pick, but stop making excuses for the kid. Horford used his strength and experience and gave Oden fits all day. This is why I've raved about Horford for years... he'll be a tremendous pro player.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

HKF said:


> This is why Oden needs to go pro. The refs kill you at this level, if you're too big. He's been getting slapped all game long.


It won't get any better in the NBA. If you've seen Yao Ming and Dwight play, they get hacked and hammered all game and many things go un-called.

IMO, Oden is a franchise big man but his NBA impact, especially immediately, isn't going to be nearly as great as people make it out to be. And that opinion has nothing to do with this game, which I did not see.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

He's a franchise big and you could see it even though he still is favoring the injured wrist. Horford should have come out last year, so saying he outplayed Oden isn't a surprise. Horford is an NBA PF. 

However, as a pro Oden will be way better than he is right now. The spacing, the guard play, you won't be able to triple team Oden.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

I think until Oden is completely healthy and in shape its hard to say we've seen what he is capable of. Today Superman was a mere mortal.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

oden definitely didn't have the best game but he really isn't even in game shape yet and his perimeter guys didn't help him at all with their poor shooting. shooting under 37% as a team allowed florida to put as many guys as they wanted to stop oden.

corey brewer was really impressive. i think he is the 2nd best pro off these two teams. noah i'd say is 5th best behind horford and conley.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> oden definitely didn't have the best game but he really isn't even in game shape yet and his perimeter guys didn't help him at all with their poor shooting. shooting under 37% as a team allowed florida to put as many guys as they wanted to stop oden.
> 
> corey brewer was really impressive. i think he is the 2nd best pro off these two teams. noah i'd say is 5th best behind horford and conley.


I actually thought Noah showed some skill and fire out there, i do think Horford should go before him but nba types may think differently. Either way both would probably have gone a lot higher last year. Guys like Durant, Hawes, Budinger etc are going to push some down, still a lot of big money to go around though.


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## melo4life (Jun 5, 2006)

Greg Oden is going to be really awesome, cant wait for him to play next season


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Horford's a beast!

His body and energy reminds me of a young Brian Grant. But I believe Horford is going to be a better player than Brian Grant. Horford runs the floor better than Grant, he's also quicker, and he has that little midrange jumper which I hope he keeps working on perfecting it. Horford is a lottery pick, no doubt.

Noah is going to be one of the best passing center in the league the moment he got drafted. But, his scoring ability looked very limited. I don't expect him to score much if he enters the league next year. However he's very mobile, moves up and down the floor, constantly moving looking for position. He'll be a ROY candidate on a right team. I think New Jersey or Toronto is the perfect team for him. Especially Toronto, I think a lineup of Noah at C, Bosh at PF, Bargnani at SF is going to be scary good. Noah's skills complements Bosh and Bargnani's game very well.

Oden needs to enter the NBA, I don't think he'll get much better sticking in college. He's a number 1 pick whenever he choose to come out. He needs to get stronger. Horford did a good job on him. But there were some possession where Horford just didn't really know what to do to stop Oden. He just kinda play Oden hard and hope Oden miss his shots.

Conley has a future in the NBA. Corey Brewer somehow reminds me of Marquis Daniels.


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## bodyman5001 (Jul 1, 2006)

I was watching today's game off and on but it seemed to me like they couldn't get Oden the ball when he was ready for it. It could have been partly his fault but he just seemed to be in the right position at the wrong times.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I just do not understand people knocking Noah at this point. He is at worst #5 in this draft. I would take him #3 simply because he is the most skilled big in the draft. His ability to grab rebounds and initiate the break, play smaller offensive players, rebound in traffic, pass from the high post and catch and finish are sorely underrated.

Brewer also showed his game.

Horford is a beast...plain and simple. I just love his power and toughness.

Oden just needs to make it through healthy. 

Mike Conley is a pro PG. He is going to lead a team to a title. I hope he comes out as a Frosh but it is doubtful.

Daequan Cook should play more.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> I just do not understand people knocking Noah at this point. He is at worst #5 in this draft. I would take him #3 simply because he is the most skilled big in the draft. His ability to grab rebounds and initiate the break, play smaller offensive players, rebound in traffic, pass from the high post and catch and finish are sorely underrated.


All this will not be true in the NBA. I think deep down you realize he won't be able to do this, but for some reason you think he brings intangibles. He's at best a hustle player. With his lack of strength, he won't be a strong player on the boards.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

HKF said:


> All this will not be true in the NBA. I think deep down you realize he won't be able to do this, but for some reason you think he brings intangibles. He's at best a hustle player. With his lack of strength, he won't be a strong player on the boards.


No I disagree. I think he's every bit as good as Brad Miller and he can do a lot more, but also I think he can pass and run an offense out of the high post at least as well as Miller could before Miller took his game to that next level. Some guys have unique skill sets that make them very difficult matchups and Noah is one of them.

For the first few years, I think he'll make his name as a hustle player, but he's definitely a starter in the NBA and I think he has the potential to be a borderline All Star.

I'm with Memphis X, and have been for sometime now, I don't understand the hate, he's the best player in college basketball right now and his game will transition at least somewhat to the next level.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

rainman said:


> I actually thought Noah showed some skill and fire out there, i do think Horford should go before him but nba types may think differently. Either way both would probably have gone a lot higher last year. Guys like Durant, Hawes, Budinger etc are going to push some down, still a lot of big money to go around though.


No offense, but if you take Spencer Hawes over Joakim Noah, you deserve to be fired on the spot. I understand your Seattle bias, but come on.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Nimreitz said:


> No offense, but if you take Spencer Hawes over Joakim Noah, you deserve to be fired on the spot. I understand your Seattle bias, but come on.


Spencer Hawes will be a better NBA player than Joakim Noah. Noah isn't a center and his ability at PF won't look so hot against NBA caliber bigs. I'd like to think he could play straight up against guys like Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh and company, but I am just not seeing it.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

HKF said:


> Spencer Hawes will be a better NBA player than Joakim Noah. Noah isn't a center and his ability at PF won't look so hot against NBA caliber bigs. I'd like to think he could play straight up against guys like Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh and company, but I am just not seeing it.


:no: 

Like I said previously, he has skills tht will easily translate to the NBA. He not only has the athleticism but he has the effort and heart to be a very good defender in the NBA. He is the prototype defender IMO. He can stay on the floor when teams play small and defend SFs and also defend the players you listed. His offense is underrated as those players you listed will have trouble defending him off the dribble. It is just a special ability to have the handles he does at his length. If KG can lead the league in rebounding, Noah has enough girth to be a double digit NBA rebounder.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

Nimreitz said:


> No I disagree. I think he's every bit as good as Brad Miller and he can do a lot more, but also I think he can pass and run an offense out of the high post at least as well as Miller could before Miller took his game to that next level. Some guys have unique skill sets that make them very difficult matchups and Noah is one of them.


Brad Miller has a deadly jumpshot out to the NBA 3, Noah can't hit a 10 footer with any kind of consistency. That has a lot to do with opening up Miller's passing game, which is further enhanced by the offense he's in. I still have major questions about Noah's strength and ability to score on NBA big men. I don't think you can assume that a unique player like him is going to translate to the NBA.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

I think when Noah went up against Oden you saw the results, he's small for a lowpost guy but he is a hustle guy who has a pretty good understanding of the game. Would be surprised if he goes any higher than 7 though but i've been wrong before(hard to believe i know).

As for Spencer Hawes i am not even hinting he cracks the top 2 but he has a tremendous skill set and gets stronger and more comfortable at the college level every night, he has the best post moves in college ball and better than most nba centers right now. His last two games against LSU and some other chumps friday night he did the best Kevin Mchale impression i've seen in awhile.

My top 7 or so based on what i've seen so far and it changes all the time would be;

1. Greg Oden
2. Kevin Durant
3. Spencer Hawes
4. Yi Jianlian
5. Chase Budinger
6. Brandan Wright
7. Al Horford

let me say this is how i would pick not how i think nba types will pick and i dont have knowlege or incourage anyone to leave early that thinks otherwise, just thought i'd add that little disclaimer. Happy Holidays.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I guess we'll have to wait till Noah gets the cohones to come to the League, but I'm seeing Channing Frye red flags with this dude. Yeah he may have a great game every once in a blue, but this is not the guy I want to go to war with on the pro level.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Whats wrong with Channing Frye on the pro level?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

HB said:


> Whats wrong with Channing Frye on the pro level?


Well besides being soft, he's just not going to mix it up inside enough because he doesn't have the strength to do it. Frye also has more ball skills then Noah. People are under the impression that Noah will handle the ball like a guard in the NBA, but I call BS on that one. He's not THAT good. I think we lose sight of the fact that against pro caliber bigs he doesn't perform well (Darrell Arthur, Julian Wright, Roy Hibbert, Jeff Green, Greg Oden). He's a weakside shot blocker and not an intimidator man to man wise, and he doesn't have a go-to move nor the strength to overpower his man for finishes. He also hasn't proven that he can consistently stick 12 footers, which NBA PF's have to do, unless they want to be game planned for. I seriously don't see the Hubbub about him.

Give me Horford all day every day over this guy. Mikki Moore plays with energy, but that doesn't mean I'd want the guy with a top 5 pick.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

A guy like Noah on a team like the Nets is exactly what the doctor prescribed. The guy plays with passion, good shot blocker, good rebounder with good passing skills. He was overrated last year in a weak draft and I guess thats why people are picking on him right now, but I think he definitely could be a solid contributor on the pro level.

Back to Frye, this guy gets a bad rap and its not even funny. Last night I saw him try to play in the post against the philly frontcourt, but due to weight issues couldnt get it done. Soft would be a player who shies away from contact. Frye doesnt, he is forced to use his jumper because thats the only way he can get by right now on the offensive end.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Give me Horford over Noah or Oden anyday...

Oden is slow as dirt. He walks back up court and I really don't see him as an offensive force even with a healthy hand. 

He's an amazing shot blocker, but Billy D got smart in the 2nd half and took him away from the basket with pick and rolls, and he got exposed. Horford pick and popped for a ton of open jumpers b/c Oden is too slow to hedge and get back to his man. If you don't think the future #1 pick would be exposed in the same way once he's in the NBA, you're crazy. Remember the fact that OSU can run a 2-3 zone and let Oden sit close to the basket, in the NBA, you really can't run a true 2-3 zone like a college team can, Oden has to move to play defense, and his foot speed is comparable to Shaq & Oliver Miller combined.

Noah is another guy I think could be headed to the league as a bust. He's got no jump shot, and really no great post moves. He'd much rather catch in the high post and use his superior dribbling/quickness against slower big men...doesn't translate well for him going to the league. Noah would be good on a team like Phoenix, but I don't see how he can be a top 5 pick this summer.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Noah will be top 5.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HKF said:


> Well besides being soft, he's just not going to mix it up inside enough because he doesn't have the strength to do it. Frye also has more ball skills then Noah. People are under the impression that Noah will handle the ball like a guard in the NBA, but I call BS on that one. He's not THAT good. I think we lose sight of the fact that against pro caliber bigs he doesn't perform well (Darrell Arthur, Julian Wright, Roy Hibbert, Jeff Green, Greg Oden). He's a weakside shot blocker and not an intimidator man to man wise, and he doesn't have a go-to move nor the strength to overpower his man for finishes. He also hasn't proven that he can consistently stick 12 footers, which NBA PF's have to do, unless they want to be game planned for. I seriously don't see the Hubbub about him.
> 
> Give me Horford all day every day over this guy. Mikki Moore plays with energy, but that doesn't mean I'd want the guy with a top 5 pick.


Agreed 100%!

Noah is averaging a monsterous 12 and 7 in college, yet people think he's going to be an All-Star caliber player in the league? 

First the dude needs to learn some post moves. He's a garbage tip back type player in the Varejao mold (not just saying that cause of similarity in looks). 

I couldn't even wrap my head around the talk last year that Noah could of been a #1...


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

*No need to bait and stray off topic. - Lachlanwood32* I couldn't believe people thought he was worthy of a #1 pick, either. 12 and 7, in 24 minutes, is very good production, particularly in college. I know a lot of people don't like Noah, and I've said myself before that Horford is the best pro prospect on Florida, but Noah has a lot of skills, and will be a good NBA player.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Like A Breath said:


> Brad Miller has a deadly jumpshot out to the NBA 3, Noah can't hit a 10 footer with any kind of consistency. That has a lot to do with opening up Miller's passing game, which is further enhanced by the offense he's in. I still have major questions about Noah's strength and ability to score on NBA big men. I don't think you can assume that a unique player like him is going to translate to the NBA.


Exactly. If Noah can't hit a 18 footer you can forget about running any type of high post game through him. If he can't hit the jumper, he won't pull his defender out and open the lane for easy baskets. He might have the passing skills, but that's only half the package.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

YoYoYoWasup said:


> *No need to bait and stray off topic. - Lachlanwood32* I couldn't believe people thought he was worthy of a #1 pick, either. 12 and 7, in 24 minutes, is very good production, particularly in college. I know a lot of people don't like Noah, and I've said myself before that Horford is the best pro prospect on Florida, but Noah has a lot of skills, and will be a good NBA player.


How is Morrison relevant to this topic? Or are you merely trying to bait zagsfan20 because you've run out of arguments?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> How is Morrison relevant to this topic? Or are you merely trying to bait zagsfan20 because you've run out of arguments?


Pretty much. Morrison has nothing to do with this discussion.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Noah = overrated. He made a name for himself by having a great tourny but he has disapointed during the season. 

Oden. If you're expecting him to make an immediate impact, you're wrong. He still is pretty raw offensively and he might need to adjust to the NBA speed.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Jizzy said:


> Noah = overrated. He made a name for himself by having a great tourny but he has disapointed during the season.
> 
> Oden. If you're expecting him to make an immediate impact, you're wrong. *He still is pretty raw offensively and he might need to adjust to the NBA speed.*


That's quite an understatement IMO


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

I didn't mean to bait, so sorry about that. The point I was trying to make is... do I think Noah is worth a top 5 pick, no. Do I think he's worth a lottery pick, though? Sure. The kid has rare leadership qualities that are hard to find, and he has a very good skill set. To me, he can be a player that doesn't have to score much to have an impact on the game.

He might just be a good college player and be nothing at the next level, lord knows I've been wrong before, but I think Noah will prove himself to be a pretty important cog for any team that drafts him. Florida would not be nearly as good a team as they are without him. He's the glue that holds it all together.

Horford and Brewer will be better pros, but Noah will not be a bust and a pretty darn good player himself.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Oden is slow as dirt. He walks back up court and I really don't see him as an offensive force even with a healthy hand.
> 
> He's an amazing shot blocker, but Billy D got smart in the 2nd half and took him away from the basket with pick and rolls, and he got exposed. Horford pick and popped for a ton of open jumpers b/c Oden is too slow to hedge and get back to his man. If you don't think the future #1 pick would be exposed in the same way once he's in the NBA, you're crazy. Remember the fact that OSU can run a 2-3 zone and let Oden sit close to the basket, in the NBA, you really can't run a true 2-3 zone like a college team can, Oden has to move to play defense, and his foot speed is comparable to Shaq & Oliver Miller combined.


Oden's foot speed will be a non-issue in the NBA. Oden is a classic low post center who has a tremendous wing span and ability to rebound and block shots, if anything offensive players will learn to adjust to him being in the paint. 

As far as his offense, he'll never be a 25+ppg scorer, because this isn't his game, but he will eventually develop some decent post moves. He already can use both hands around the basket, so it's not like he doesn't have a some natural skills. 



Jizzy said:


> Noah = overrated. He made a name for himself by having a great tourny but he has disapointed during the season.
> 
> Oden. If you're expecting him to make an immediate impact, you're wrong. He still is pretty raw offensively and he might need to adjust to the NBA speed.


Anyone who has any sense of basketball knew this last year about Oden, which is why the David Robinson comparison's were horrible. However, I disagree in that he won't have an immediate impact. I guarantee Oden will have an impact defensively from day 1. Right now Oden's NBA stock hasn't been damaged. 

As for Noah, you don't take him over considered "can't miss" prospects like Oden, Durant, Hawes, etc, but I wouldn't hesitate taking him after that. If you ask me Noah was wise in not coming out last year, because he isn't the type of player that you build around. However, in a strong draft the probability of him being drafted by an already established team is high and that is were he'll be the most successful. You don't draft Noah to be your go-to franchise guy so anyone judging based on that is foolish. 

Noah's game is dependent on his energy rather than scoring, rebounding or blocking and due to this he always have something to offer a team. I don't see Noah being a perennial allstar, but I do see him having an impact in the NBA.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Oden will make an immediate impact. On the defensive end. His defensive instincts are unmatched in the NCAA and as long as he stays out of foul trouble when he gets to the pros I don't see how he won't have an immediate impact.

His offensive game is not as bad as advertised around here. His positioning around the paint is good, his hands are great. He has nice foot work and great athleticism for a bigman. All Oden needs to do is get good position and dunk the basketball, he has a hook shot. Oden should never leave the paint. Give him time and he'll click offensively, possibly not at the college level, but once he reaches the NBA and the offense is run through him I'm certain he'll score over 20ppg. We aren't seeing Oden at 100% yet, once he's over the psychological difficulties which come with a hand injury I'm sure his offense will improve. He's being severely underappreciated offensively, with more touches he'd be doing a whole lot more.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> Oden will make an immediate impact. On the defensive end. His defensive instincts are unmatched in the NCAA and as long as he stays out of foul trouble when he gets to the pros I don't see how he won't have an immediate impact.
> 
> His offensive game is not as bad as advertised around here. His positioning around the paint is good, his hands are great. He has nice foot work and great athleticism for a bigman. All Oden needs to do is get good position and dunk the basketball, he has a hook shot. Oden should never leave the paint. Give him time and he'll click offensively, possibly not at the college level, but once he reaches the NBA and the offense is run through him I'm certain he'll score over 20ppg. We aren't seeing Oden at 100% yet, once he's over the psychological difficulties which come with a hand injury I'm sure his offense will improve. He's being severely underappreciated offensively, with more touches he'd be doing a whole lot more.


I agree. I will say that it pretty obvious that his teammates haven't yet learned how to "feed the bigman". During the Florida game he had no problem getting position offensively. Once he received the ball he generally knew what to do with it, but there is still some learning to do, which should be expected. Actually this was my biggest problem with forcing these players to attend college, because if they didn't come in posting the gaudy numbers people would begin to make up things and hate. If Oden was healthy and in the NBA right now he would be the front runner for the ROY and among the top 5-8 centers in the league.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I remember when Oliver Miller use to outplay Shaq in college. Didin't seem to mean anything.

Noah is the most _underrated_ player now IMO. Haven't seen Hawes in college yet but he seemed to look inept vs. Oden every time I saw the matchup. He also got dominated by Sene so....


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

ralaw said:


> I agree. I will say that it pretty obvious that his teammates haven't yet learned how to "feed the bigman". During the Florida game he had no problem getting position offensively. Once he received the ball he generally knew what to do with it, but there is still some learning to do, which should be expected. Actually this was my biggest problem with forcing these players to attend college, because if they didn't come in posting the gaudy numbers people would begin to make up things and hate. *If Oden was healthy and in the NBA right now he would be the front runner for the ROY and among the top 5-8 centers in the league.*




Come on man based on what? He can block shots and he's 7 foot? If he's struggling to put the ball in the bucket and stay strong enough to make it through a 40 minute college game, he's gonna be a top 8 center in the NBA? So where do you rank Horford and Noah? Are they top 15 PF's? You wouldn't say that about anyone but Oden b/c of his hype. 

Shaq
Yao
Amare
Gasol
Howard
Jermaine
Emeka
Okur
Camby
Z
Rasheed
Bynum
Big Ben
B.Miller
Zo
Bogut
Kaman
Zo
Curry
Krstic
Chandler
Biedrins
Aldridge

you could make arguments that Oden either lesser or on par with almost all of those centers (those quickly came to mind) or players that could play center in certain situations. Let's not overate a kid who's played 5 college games, and played well in 4 of them, the same 4 that were against far lesser competition. Good player? Yes. One of the best big men in the NBA? No.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> [/b]
> 
> Come on man based on what? He can block shots and he's 7 foot? If he's struggling to put the ball in the bucket and stay strong enough to make it through a 40 minute college game, he's gonna be a top 8 center in the NBA? So where do you rank Horford and Noah? Are they top 15 PF's? You wouldn't say that about anyone but Oden b/c of his hype.
> 
> ...


You will see. From the players you posted (some of whom aren't C's):



> Shaq < Oden: greater than a hurt and old Shaq
> *Yao > Oden: no issues here*
> Amare > Oden: Is Amare a classic center? Amare is a better offensive player. Thats it.
> Gasol <= Oden: see Amare
> ...


So, with that the only centers that are clearly better than Oden right now are Yao, Amare, Camby and Howard. If you take age and injury history into it I would take Yao, Howard and maybe Amare. If you are the kind of guy who says, _"How can you say he's better than ____ when he hasn't even played against the best?"_ I can respect that argument, but Oden will have a huge impact from day 1, you will see. 

Don't hate on Oden just to be different. Did you just list every center in the league as a rebuttal? Also, don't forget Oden hasn't played basketball all summer. Right now he is playing at about 60% and still getting accustomed to his teammates and the college game. Given all of this I would say he has done great.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Joakim Noah = Anderson Varejao

A decent pro, but certainly nothing more than a role player. High energy, good rebounder, sound defender, limited offensive game, in need of hair cut. I see Noah having a similar impact in the pros as Varejao, which isn't to knock him. I just don't see Noah as a star or a lottery talent. I agree with whoever said he's the 3rd best pro prospect on Florida right now behind Brewer and Horford.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

I don't like college basketball so my experience with both is quite limited. Mostly my Oden experience is "hype" and 1 or 2 games i've seen him play. For Noah I have seen him in the final four last year and that's it. But from my experience, it seems like Noah by be the type who's game doesn't translate that well to the pros. I can't remember one specific thing that he does great. And he seems quite poor when it comes to any type of post moves (or a mid-range jumper). He doesn't have the sheer athleticism to overcome that and be a great scorer. So i would expect him to be a 10ppg, maybe as many as 12ppg, if he comes through on the other aspects and gets the chance to play big minutes.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

People just look at Noah and because he has a funny hair style automatically compare him to Varejao. If there is one guy I think Noah reminds me of, its David Lee. A solid double digit type rebounder that will provide his team with energy and hustle.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

And people are getting carried away Oden's so called offensive game, it just isnt there. He cant score unless he is 2 or 3 feet around the basket.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

I don't think Noah has enough offensive capability to become a major threat to score. He's a decent post player, at best and tries to beat smaller defenders off the dribble. I must say, the one player Noah reminds me off is a slimmed K-Mart although Noah holds a better understanding for the game.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> And people are getting carried away Oden's so called offensive game, it just isnt there. He cant score unless he is 2 or 3 feet around the basket.


As an 18 year old player who has been limited due to injury you have a point; however, he is a classic low post type of player. As he builds strength and weight, a game 2-3 feet around the basket is all he will need. However, I fully expect him to develop a consistent mid-range jump shot once he's around professional coaching.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

HB said:


> People just look at Noah and because he has a funny hair style automatically compare him to Varejao. If there is one guy I think Noah reminds me of, its David Lee. A solid double digit type rebounder that will provide his team with energy and hustle.


People just look at Noah and because he goes to Florida automatically compare him to Lee. 

Give me a break, the two aren't similar at all. Varejao is one of the most active big men in the league on both ends of the court, thats what makes him good. He's not terribly gifted offensively, but he's everywhere setting picks, rolling to the hoop, boxing out, crashing the boards -- Doing the little things to help the team win. That's exactly what Noah does for Florida, and he passes very well out of the post. That's why he's good, in addition to his defensive presence of course. But if you look at the games where he's been shut down, it's because the opposition has matched his intensity and energy with their big men, and when you do that he because average at best. That's why you see a guy like Varejao only good in spurts on the pro level. Florida State threw a number of considerably shorter, but equally energetic and athletic guys at Noah and he wasn't able to do anything despite the height advantage. Reid, Echefu and Thornton made Noah a non-factor offensively and subsequently the Gators lost.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lee isnt similar to Noah lol okay if you say so. Most of Lee's points in the NBA come of tip ins, offensive rebounds and very good positioning around the basket. Funny enough thats how Varejao gets his points also. I dont think Noah will be any different in that form, considering he has no back to the basket game and I dont think he has a jumper. But if he shoots free throws at a decent percentage, he can develop some type of jumper


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> [/b]
> Shaq
> Yao
> Amare
> ...


you give that long list of "centers" but don't include duncan?

as a rookie next season, odn will be better than all of them except yao, amare, gasol, howard, okafor, and jermaine oneal. those are the only guys who may be on the level of rookie greg oden.

and why do you pretend that oden isn't going to be able to have stamina in the nba? you think he's in shape right now?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

rocketeer said:


> you give that long list of "centers" but don't include duncan?
> 
> as a rookie next season, odn will be better than all of them except yao, amare, gasol, howard, okafor, and jermaine oneal. those are the only guys who may be on the level of rookie greg oden.
> 
> and why do you pretend that oden isn't going to be able to have stamina in the nba? you think he's in shape right now?


I think you are overrating him. His defense alone isnt what is going to put him ahead of so many on that list. And so far thats all I think he will show in his first year, defense!


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

HB said:


> I think you are overrating him. His defense alone isnt what is going to put him ahead of so many on that list. And so far thats all I think he will show in his first year, defense!


feel free to bump this thread in a year.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> I think you are overrating him. His defense alone isnt what is going to put him ahead of so many on that list. And so far thats all I think he will show in his first year, defense!


Using your expectations for him, I would say his defense with having a marginal offensive game will separate him from most on that list. Let's not overrate the centers in today's game to somehow minimize what Oden will do, because the fact is there is only 1 dominant center in today's game, so it's not as if he has a high mountain to climb.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> you give that long list of "centers" but don't include duncan?
> 
> as a rookie next season, odn will be better than all of them except yao, amare, gasol, howard, okafor, and jermaine oneal. those are the only guys who may be on the level of rookie greg oden.
> 
> and why do you pretend that oden isn't going to be able to have stamina in the nba? you think he's in shape right now?


I mistakenly forgot Duncan, how, i dont know!

i love how overrated Oden is right now...he's a good player but he's a better defender than guys who've won Defensive Player of the Year in the *NBA*? NO! He's doing it against kids, these guys in the league are dominating GROWN MEN each night in the NBA. Oden plays against the 1st real competition in his collegiate career and has a so-so game. He's facing as good or better post players each night in the NBA, that's reality!


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

HB said:


> I think you are overrating him. His defense alone isnt what is going to put him ahead of so many on that list. And so far thats all I think he will show in his first year, defense!


Thank you.

Oden is better defensively than Ben Wallace? Hell no he isn't...Wallace does SO much more than block shots (the only thing Oden has shown he can do). Wallace is a great man to man defender from sideline-to-sideline. He is one of the best in the league at racking up steals.

Okafor is a better shot blocker, same with Zo and Camby.

To name the Centers who are better offensively, we'd have to dig deep into the depth charts of the NBA, because this kid has shown no offensively ability outside 4 feet from the basket, broken hand or not.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> I mistakenly forgot Duncan, how, i dont know!
> 
> i love how overrated Oden is right now...he's a good player but he's a better defender than guys who've won Defensive Player of the Year in the *NBA*? NO! He's doing it against kids, these guys in the league are dominating GROWN MEN each night in the NBA. Oden plays against the 1st real competition in his collegiate career and has a so-so game. He's facing as good or better post players each night in the NBA, that's reality!


So, it appears now that he had a 1 so-so game against two other NBA players he now is destined to be a mediocre so-so big man. I get it. If that's the case you may want to let all of the NBA GM's know this, because I don't think they realized it.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I think he is overrated when people say he is coming into the league and will be a top 5 center. The Greg Oden I saw isnt better than Camby, Ben Wallace, Yao, Emeka, Dwight, Amare, JO, Okur, Curry and I'd say he will be on par with the Kristic' and Kamans of the league.

I should also clarify that the above is of course for his first season, he has the potential to eventually be a top 5 center.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Oden is better defensively than Ben Wallace? Hell no he isn't...Wallace does SO much more than block shots (the only thing Oden has shown he can do). Wallace is a great man to man defender from sideline-to-sideline. He is one of the best in the league at racking up steals.
> 
> ...


Yet, you're measuring him up against the games top bigmen to prove a point. That alone should tell you something about the "kid". At the minimum he's still among the top 10-15 big men in the league right now. Don't let the hype cause you to hate on the "kid".


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I dont think Noah is a top 5 pick. I see him going between 5 and 10.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> I think he is overrated when people say he is coming into the league and will be a top 5 center. The Greg Oden I saw isnt better than Camby, Ben Wallace, Yao, Emeka, Dwight, Amare, JO, Okur, Curry and I'd say he will be on par with the Kristic' and Kamans of the league.
> 
> I should also clarify that the above is of course for his first season, he has the potential to eventually be a top 5 center.


Oden right now certainly isn't better than Yao, Camby, Amare and maybe Howard. However, I don't consider Amare a true center. I would take Oden right now over any of the other players you mentioned. I actually find it amusing that you mention Okur, Kristic and Kaman in this comparison.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You're not drafting Oden for his rookie year. You're drafting him for his NBA career. Only an idiot would take Camby over Oden.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

We are talking about guys that arent doing one thing on the basketball court. Okur and Kristic can stretch defenses with their ability to hit outside shots. They also get their fair share of rebounds, they might not have the defensive abilities of Oden but they are miles better than him on the offensive end. Kaman is a do it all type player, definitely one of the better defensive centers in the league.

How exactly is Oden going to soore effectively when his post moves are so poor?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

HKF said:


> You're not drafting Oden for his rookie year. You're drafting him for his NBA career. Only an idiot would take Camby over Oden.


So Philadelphia will be trading the pick for Camby then.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

HKF said:


> You're not drafting Oden for his rookie year. You're drafting him for his NBA career. Only an idiot would take Camby over Oden.


It was in response to those saying Oden will come in next year and be a top 5 center


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> We are talking about guys that arent doing one thing on the basketball court. Okur and Kristic can stretch defenses with their ability to hit outside shots. They also get their fair share of rebounds, they might not have the defensive abilities of Oden but they are miles better than him on the offensive end. Kaman is a do it all type player, definitely one of the better defensive centers in the league.
> 
> How exactly is Oden going to soore effectively when his post moves are so poor?


You find someone with some basketball sense who would take Kaman or Kristic over Oden right now. Please, "stretching the defense", yeah that's done a lot for the Nets hasn't it? Kristic is a good big man, but he certainly isn't among any top tier big men in the league. Kaman is decent, but he certainly isn't anything special. 

You're making seem as if Oden is equivalent to Ben Wallace on offensive and I find this comical. Have you actually watched him any?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

ralaw said:


> You find someone with some basketball sense who would take Kaman or Kristic over Oden right now. Please, "stretching the defense", yeah that's done a lot for the Nets hasn't it? Kristic is a good big man, but he certainly isn't among any top tier big men in the league.
> 
> You're making seem as if Oden is equivalent to Ben Wallace on offensive and I find this comical. Have you actually watched him any?


We are talking about his first season. This isnt about who you are going to build your franchise with. Why is that so hard to understand? You and most in this thread make it seem like Oden is going to come into the league and dominate. Greg Oden that I have seen so far is not a better player than Eddie Curry.

And since we seem to be watching diffeent players, tell me what differentiates him from the other centers I have mentioned and why he should be an allstar candidate in his first season


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> We are talking about his first season. This isnt about who you are going to build your franchise with. Why is that so hard to understand? You and most in this thread make it seem like Oden is going to come into the league and dominate. Greg Oden that I have seen so far is not a better player than Eddie Curry


I've been talking about his rookie season the entire time. So, I don't understand why your asking _"why is that so hard to understand"_. In his first season he will be better than Kristic and Kaman. Oden will dominate on the defensive end and I've been saying this the entire time and as he learns the game he'll become a good offensive player. 

LOL, Eddy Curry. Curry and Oden are polar opposites at best. Curry could couldn't care less about defense or rebounding, while these are Oden's strong suits. Right now Curry is a better offensive player and that's about it, but does that make him a better player? Besides Curry's play this season certainly hasn't been the norm for his career. Right now the only players who are better than Oden are Yao, Amare, Howard and Camby.



HB said:


> And since we seem to be watching diffeent players, tell me what differentiates him from the other centers I have mentioned and why he should be an allstar candidate in his first season


Him winning a popularity contest means nothing. I'm talking about his impact on the court. Oden will have a defensive impact from day 1 and anyone saying otherwise are either a hater or have never seen him play. If you're going to expect him to average 25ppg and 15rpg in his rookie season as a way to say he's overrated when he fails to reach those expectations thats on you, because he won't do that. However, by the time he finishes his rookie season, Oden will be in contention for the all defensive team .


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

ralaw said:


> I've been talking about his rookie season the entire time. So, I don't understand why your asking _"why is that so hard to understand"_. In his first season he will be better than Kristic and Kaman. Oden will dominate on the defensive end and I've been saying this the entire time and as he learns the game he'll become a good offensive player.
> 
> LOL, Eddy Curry. Curry and Oden are polar opposites at best. Curry could couldn't care less about defense or rebounding, while these are Oden's strong suits. Right now Curry is a better offensive player and that's about it, but does that make him a better player? Besides Curry's play this season certainly hasn't been the norm for his career. Right now the only players who are better than Oden are Yao, Amare, Howard and Camby.



Will Oden average over 15 points a game in his first season? I doubt it
Will he average over 4 blocks a game in his first season? Doubt that too
Over 3 assists a game in his first season? Doubt that too
Over 10 rebounds a game in his first season? If he can stay on th court sure

Now all this are just my opinion, but you really havent given me any concrete arguement as to why he is a top 5 center in the league in his FIRST season in the league. Maybe if you broke down his game or something, because from what I have seen, it just isnt doing it for me yet.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> Will Oden average over 15 points a game in his first season? I doubt it
> Will he average over 4 blocks a game in his first season? Doubt that too
> Over 3 assists a game in his first season? Doubt that too
> Over 10 rebounds a game in his first season? If he can stay on th court sure
> ...


Concrete? How can I give you a concrete argument based on something in the future? That makes no sense. I don't need to break his game down, because anything I say you will disagree with. It's sort of a waste of my time as it's something only time will prove. However, he will be among the top 5-10 centers when he comes into the league and I guarantee that.

It's a sad day for basketball when a classic low post player is downgraded because his game consist of defense, rebounding and an offensive game that is within 3-4 feet of the hoop.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You do realize that you are making this sound like its personal. All this talk about if you dont like Oden you are a hater doesnt have any bearing on this arguement. This is all opinion. I will be the first to own up if I am wrong on this. Diop was a defensive beast in college, look how long it took him to get a footing in the league. As of now Oden IS not a better defensive player than Yao, Dwight, Emeka, Camby and Ben Wallace. You mention defensive impact, its not like he is going to average 10 rebounds and 5 blocks his rookie season.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> You do realize that you are making this sound like its personal. All this talk about if you dont like Oden you are a hater doesnt have any bearing on this arguement. This is all opinion. I will be the first to own up if I am wrong on this. Diop was a defensive beast in college, look how long it took him to get a footing in the league. As of now Oden IS not a better defensive player than Yao, Dwight, Emeka, Camby and Ben Wallace. You mention defensive impact, its not like he is going to average 10 rebounds and 5 blocks his rookie season.


I'm not making it personal. I'm just addressing those people who hate on him due to the hype that he receives. To me it's pointless to hate on someone due to the hype that they receive. It really just seems like people do that to be different. However, they did it with LeBron, so it should be expected. The fact of the matter is regardless of what anyone else does, Oden will be the #1 overall pick regardless and has been for the past two season, and that should tell you something. 

Oden doesn't need to average 10 and 5 to be among the elite defenders in the league next year.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lets get this clear though. Oden is hyped because when it comes to good big men for that matter, there just arent that many out there. You think if Dwight, Emeka and Yao were in the draft this year there would be all this Oden hype.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> Lets get this clear though. Oden is hyped because when it comes to good big men for that matter, there just arent that many out there. You think if Dwight, Emeka and Yao were in the draft this year there would be all this Oden hype.


Howard (pre-draft version) actually was a great highschool big man, but he wasn't anywhere near as hyped or "ready" as Oden. If Yao (pre-draft version) was in this years draft he would have been the second player drafted behind Oden. Emeka (pre-draft version) wouldn't be up for consideration.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If they were all in the draft at the same point upon entering the draft, I think Oden would be selected first. Yao had so much uncertainty with him, simply because guys that big tended to not be very good and he was Chinese. No one knew what to expect. 

I think it would have went Oden, Yao, Howard and Okafor 4th, but in truth, hypotheticals don't mean much.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Fair enough, I do know those would have been the top four in whatever draft though. Oden isnt in Yao and Dwight's league as of now though


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> Fair enough, I do know those would have been the top four in whatever draft though. Oden isnt in Yao and Dwight's league as of now though


Right now he would learn a valuable lesson guarding Yao or Howard. I can't wait to see those matchups in the near future.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

ralaw said:


> I'm not making it personal. I'm just addressing those people who hate on him due to the hype that he receives. To me it's pointless to hate on someone due to the hype that they receive. It really just seems like people do that to be different. However, they did it with LeBron, so it should be expected. The fact of the matter is regardless of what anyone else does, Oden will be the #1 overall pick regardless and has been for the past two season, and that should tell you something.
> 
> Oden doesn't need to average 10 and 5 to be among the elite defenders in the league next year.


No one is trying to say you're wrong or make this personal, but the point is that Oden is being greatly over hyped b/c people are comparing Oden's play in COLLEGE and translating it into the NBA. It's not the same. He's got all the potential in the world and no one can deny him of that, he's a great young prospect and at the end of the day, he's a FRESHMAN in college. But to compare him as BETTER than some of the best defenders in the past decade and current NBA is foolish. Put him on a NBA team tomorrow, and he's not out-shining the elite posts in the league today. Sorry, not right now, and that's what the argument is...5-10 years down the road? Who knows! Potential doesn't equal success, look at plenty of guys who didn't live up to their hype. He could be the next Shaq or the next bust.


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## MoscowHeel (Dec 25, 2006)

Oden is going to be a victim of hype, and it's sad. He could make several all-star games and still be considered a bust. I see him as a better version of Mark Eaton. He doesn't move particularly well on the court and he has almost no offensive moves. He hasn't had offensive moves for the past 5 years since the hype machine has started, and people have always said he will simply develop them, but when will he? He can jump very high to block shots but he also has tremendous timing. He's a good rebounder but not the dominant one you would expect from his physical attributes.

Noah, on the other hand, is clearly not the elite player some thought after last years run. Horford is obviously the best post player on that team and he allows Noah to run free and do "his thing".


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

LOL @ the next Mark Eaton. Oh goodness. Now Oden will be worse than Tyson Chandler and Samuel Dalembert.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

HKF said:


> LOL @ the next Mark Eaton. Oh goodness. Now Oden will be worse than Tyson Chandler and Samuel Dalembert.


Clearly Oden will be better than Eaton, but Eaton was twice the player Dalembert and Chandler are.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

I think Oden is destined for great things....Even though he has a lot of hype surrounding him, he goes about it the right way. People argue that he isn't that great on offense and has no post moves, but he can turn and dunk. And right now, thats all he needs to do. I'd rather him dunk everything now, and then have that in his arsenal we he starts to develop his post moves then to not ever learn or have the confidence to dunk on anyone ie DeSagana Diop.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Rawse said:


> So Philadelphia will be trading the pick for Camby then.


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rawse again." :lol:


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

HB said:


> How exactly is Oden going to soore effectively when his post moves are so poor?


He's scoring at a 67.5% rate. How much more effective would you like? 80%, perhaps 90? Give me a break. If you don't realize that the most effective shot in basketball is within 2 feet of the rim, then I don't know what to say.

If you don't believe Oden will score effectively, even if (as you claim) he has no post moves, then I'm wasting my time explaining this. Oden doesn't need to be out of the key, he doesn't need to hit a jumpshot like Krstic. He needs the ball in the paint, which he'll receive with the right guards and his fantastic positioning. Once there, all he needs is a pivot, perhaps a dribble, and an easy dunk.

That is all.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

No that is not all. Why do some of you act like he is some unstoppable force down low. Do you know how many times he is going to get called for steps with his bad footwork in the post? The guy is going to be in serious trouble if he doesnt learn some post moves and how to pump fake. 67.5% against 6'6 centers, whoopee!!!!!

Just going by what I have seen of him, now maybe its the fact that he isnt at 100% but I honestly dont know how that affect his legs. If he turns like he has done from what I have seen, defenders will double him easily forcing him to commit turnovers or travel with the ball.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

HKF said:


> If they were all in the draft at the same point upon entering the draft, I think Oden would be selected first. Yao had so much uncertainty with him, simply because guys that big tended to not be very good and he was Chinese. No one knew what to expect.
> 
> I think it would have went Oden, Yao, Howard and Okafor 4th, but in truth, hypotheticals don't mean much.


I've got to believe Yao would be selected first, if only for the marketing ability which comes with having a player who can tap into over 1 billion people. The first of his kind. If the GM has any say at all, Yao's picked first. None of the other players mentioned can hold a candlestick to Yao's marketability and merchandise sales.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Potential doesn't equal success


that is what makes oden special. he will instantly be very successful and still have the potential to be an alltime great.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

HB said:


> Will Oden average over 15 points a game in his first season? I doubt it
> Will he average over 4 blocks a game in his first season? Doubt that too
> Over 3 assists a game in his first season? Doubt that too
> Over 10 rebounds a game in his first season? If he can stay on th court sure
> ...


Some of your milestones are unreasonable.

I think his numbers will look like this:

14-18 pts
10-12 boards
1-2 assists
2-3 blocks
55% FG
75% FT

You have to remember Dwight Howard did 12/10/1.5/1.5 direct from HS. Oden will be coming from college and is a better player. Dwight Howard averaged 12 points as a rookie and he still doesn't have any post moves. Simple tenacity and athleticism.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> No that is not all. Why do some of you act like he is some unstoppable force down low. Do you know how many times he is going to get called for steps with his bad footwork in the post? The guy is going to be in serious trouble if he doesnt learn some post moves and how to pump fake. 67.5% against 6'6 centers, whoopee!!!!!
> 
> Just going by what I have seen of him, now maybe its the fact that he isnt at 100% but I honestly dont know how that affect his legs. If he turns like he has done from what I have seen, defenders will double him easily forcing him to commit turnovers or travel with the ball.


Oden is very effective at sealing his man off and establishing position, and that's half the game. You can complain that he doesn't have Chris Kaman's moves, but when you're 7' 285 and incredibly athletic, you don't need Chris Kaman's finesse game to be successful. And you sure as **** don't need a 20' jumper to be successful, you just need to be playing next to someone that can drain one (so that both post defenders aren't there).


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> Some of your milestones are unreasonable.
> 
> I think his numbers will look like this:
> 
> ...


So with those numbers is it fair to deem him a top 5 center in the season. Thats what I have been trying to say for a while now, there will be at least 10 guys putting up better or close to those numbers


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

ehmunro said:


> Oden is very effective at sealing his man off and establishing position, and that's half the game. You can complain that he doesn't have Chris Kaman's moves, but when you're 7' 285 and incredibly athletic, you don't need Chris Kaman's finesse game to be successful. And you sure as **** don't need a 20' jumper to be successful, you just need to be playing next to someone that can drain one (so that both post defenders aren't there).


Once again, you are comparing 6'6 centers to professional players in the league. Do you know how many centers in the NBA are just as strong as Oden. Shaq and Yao are arguably the strongest players in the league, you dont seem them just waltzing their way into the lane.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> So with those numbers is it fair to deem him a top 5 center in the season. Thats what I have been trying to say for a while now, there will be at least 10 guys putting up better or close to those numbers


If Oden puts up numbers in the range that Memphis mentioned I don't see how you could say he isn't among the top 5 in the league. You're making it seem as if this league is littered with great centers. This isn't the mid 80's to the late 90's. In today's league there really is only one legit classic low post center and that is Yao Ming.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

HB said:


> Once again, you are comparing 6'6 centers to professional players in the league. Do you know how many centers in the NBA are just as strong as Oden. Shaq and Yao are arguably the strongest players in the league, you dont seem them just waltzing their way into the lane.


Getting good position in the paint isn't all about strength.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> Once again, you are comparing 6'6 centers to professional players in the league. Do you know how many centers in the NBA are just as strong as Oden. Shaq and Yao are arguably the strongest players in the league, you dont seem them just waltzing their way into the lane.


How many 6'6" centers are starting in the Big 10 again? And there's more to sealing your man off than strength, if that's all that mattered Kendrick Perkins would be lethal in that regard. He isn't. Oden will be able to seal guys off in the NBA. It will take more work, but he'll do it.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Wallace is a great man to man defender from sideline-to-sideline.


Ben Wallace is not a great man to man defender. He is a great help defender and that is what makes him special. In man situations, there is a lengthy list (for a multi-time DPOY) of players that have abused him one on one.


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## noKIDDing (May 24, 2006)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/index
-Listen to the audio on "Thorpe on Deep Draft" - he pretty much sums up the potential (or hype) that Oden has.


-From what I have seen from Oden, he reminds me of Robert Parish - when Oden develops he will have the same offensive/defensive skill as Parish but I think Oden will be a better shotblocker


-Noah is a top five pick because of his unique combination of height, energy, ballhandling (he has crazy dribbling skills) and atlethicism although he will need to develop his jumpshot/freethrow to be an elite NBA PF.


-Kevin Durant is potentially becoming even better than T-Mac. He is a lock at #1 if Oden decides to return to school.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

noKIDDing said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/index
> -Listen to the audio on "Thorpe on Deep Draft" - he pretty much sums up the potential (or hype) that Oden has.
> 
> 
> ...


Thats a bad analysis


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

HB said:


> Thats a bad analysis


I agree.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

ralaw said:


> If Oden puts up numbers in the range that Memphis mentioned I don't see how you could say he isn't among the top 5 in the league. You're making it seem as if this league is littered with great centers. This isn't the mid 80's to the late 90's. *In today's league there really is only one legit classic low post center and that is Yao Ming.*




Forget Shaq?


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> [/b]
> 
> Forget Shaq?


No, I should have defined it better by saying, _"In today's league there really is only one legit classic low post center *who consistently has an impact *and that is Yao Ming."_


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