# Kobe Scores 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

with bynum out, kobe's load will increase yet again and his scoring numbers would be back around 30+ppg.

even without bynum, the lakers are projected to finish atop the western conference (60 wins)

he's playing on a banged up body which would help him garner votes.


can kobe repeat as mvp?


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## Mr. Basketball (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

He is certainly top 3.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

He would have to average 34.3 for the rest of the season just to get to 30 PPG. That's not going to happen.

Don't you agree that with Bynum down this means that the Cavs will finish with a better record and LeBron will get the award? Bynum's injury seems to clinch it for LBJ not Kobe.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



The '93 Heat said:


> He would have to average 34.3 for the rest of the season just to get to 30 PPG. That's not going to happen.
> 
> Don't you agree that with Bynum down this means that the Cavs will finish with a better record and LeBron will get the award? Bynum's injury seems to clinch it for LBJ not Kobe.


The man has done 35 a game for an entire season. How can you be so definitive? It's a possibility. I do think he won't make it, but I wouldn't put it past him.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



Tragedy said:


> The man has done 35 a game for an entire season. How can you be so definitive? It's a possibility. I do think he won't make it, but I wouldn't put it past him.


Edit: Whatever, if he does it I'll sport a Kobe avatar for a year, but I doubt that he does.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



The '93 Heat said:


> He has done that for a season. This isn't for a season. He has only 36 games to get 1,235 points. Every game he gets held under 30 will be 34.3 minus that number = points that he has to make up in his remaining games. It's an average of points per games and he simply doesn't have enough games to make up for low scoring ones.


because he has no 40, 50 60 or even an 80 point game, right?

That's the beauty of averages. He can do 20 a game then explode for 40 for two straight weeks.

I'm just saying, don't put it past him, but it most likely won't happen as much as he's been facilitating.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

It is Lebron's award to lose at this point.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

I'm also not buying that he's banged up. He has claimed that he dislocated his finger but that's only a recent injury from 2 weeks ago and it's not that major.

The ligament injury from last year is garbage. If it was anything even worth discussing he would have gotten the surgery after the Olympics.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Not unless LeBron and his team noticeably decline from here on out. Which is possible, you figure LeBron is playing too superhuman. Maybe.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

its definitely possible. Kobe looks to be extremely motivated without A-Bomb.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Sure playing like an MVP right now against the Knicks.

10/14 shooting for 27 points......................with 5:44 left in the first half!


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

D'Antoni must have nightmares of Kobe.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

34 points on 13/20 shooting in the 1st half - I love it.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



Basel said:


> Sure playing like an MVP right now against the Knicks.
> 
> 10/14 shooting for 27 points......................with 5:44 left in the first half!


Kobe reads this board.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



Tragedy said:


> Kobe reads this board.


Apparently, wow he's good.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



The '93 Heat said:


> He would have to average 34.3 for the rest of the season just to get to 30 PPG. That's not going to happen.
> 
> Don't you agree that with Bynum down this means that the Cavs will finish with a better record and LeBron will get the award? Bynum's injury seems to clinch it for LBJ not Kobe.


guess who recorded the highest points per game post all star break since the league started recording it in 1981?




yes.its kobe in 2006-2007. 35.0 ppg for the rest of the half.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

The table is set for Kobe to do it now, if he can keep the Lakers with the best record in the league, and if Kobe puts up huge number while doing it, plus I'm sure games will be a lot closer so we will all see more Kobe clutch buckets, the flare for dramatic goes a long way in this league. And if the Cavs falter , with LeBron playing sub par games, like he usually does in their losses. Kobe could really be the MVP this year. It's going to be a much more interesting second half of the season now, no doubt about it.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Even though Lebron has a really strong hold on the MVP this year, Kobe can still catch him if the Lakers end up with the best record in the league and the Cavs falter a bit.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

42 for Kobe now...


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Kobe is ****ing balling right now... Holy ****... Their defense on the other hand, is flat out atrocious...


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



23AJ said:


> The table is set for Kobe to do it now, if he can keep the Lakers with the best record in the league, and if Kobe puts up huge number while doing it, plus I'm sure games will be a lot closer so we will all see more Kobe clutch buckets, the flare for dramatic goes a long way in this league. And if the Cavs falter , with LeBron playing sub par games, like he usually does in their losses. Kobe could really be the MVP this year. It's going to be a much more interesting second half of the season now, no doubt about it.


Usually when the star players falter, the team has a much greater chance of losing. That doesn't just apply to LeBron. Besides, what makes you think the Cavs will falter? If anything, the injury would cause the Lakers to falter a bit.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



Hibachi! said:


> Kobe is ****ing balling right now... Holy ****... Their defense on the other hand, is flat out atrocious...


he's cooking it up as hot as your namesake


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

kobe with 46 ... he's getting 50+ tonight.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

The record for Madison Square Garden is 55 points by MJ, looks like Kobe's going to break it.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

hope phil let kobe stay though, chances are he wont since kobe's banged up. (right finger, right hip, right knee)


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Kobe gets to 50...


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Nobody better than Kobe in the game.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

I guess 93 heat is right, it's impossible for Kobe to reach 30ppg this season.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

54!


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

He's in there to set the record now. The game is out of reach. They're gonna go to Kobe everytime, and it's going at the rim everytime as well.


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## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

3 shots coming up...

55 56 57


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Why do you keep him in the game when it's clearly over? Risk another injury?


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## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

59 on a great move...
standing ovation at MSG


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Kobe with 59 and the most against the Knicks at MSG!


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Kobe dazzling MSG!!


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Kobe wants the record... I don't dig records like this when it isn't in the flow of the game, but whatever he has been balling right now.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Kobe Bean Braynt to break 60 baby!!!!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Going for 60 and 61 now, which would be the most at MSG ever, not just by an opposing player.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Richard Hamilton had 51 points at MSG ? Dang what kind of game did he have rolling that night. That's more than LeBron.


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## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

20-20 from the Ft line as well... damn!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

61 points for Kobe at MSG! The guy is unreal. He continues to amaze.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

he just surpassed lebron as the second leading scorer in one game. he's going after you wade:clap:


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Alright he just hit 61. Now take him out of the game. His last 10-12 points have been in flat out garbage time.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Kobe Bryant with a free throw clinic at the MSG tonight!

Kobe Leaves with 61 points baby Best in the MF'ing game.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

What shameless statpadding.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Standing ovation from the crowd at MSG! I love it! And the MVP chants heard all over the arena!


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

MSG Chant KOBE MVP MVP MVP...Yeah baby that's what I like to hear!!!!


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

He finished with 61... He put on an amazing show. He hit some sick shots. I didn't see the other games where the records were established (so I don't know when they were scored), but he didn't even need to come in for the fourth quarter. The last 8 or so points were just a joke. Amazing game for Kobe though.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*

Great night for Kobe, and for LA fans all around the world, especially after the horrible news regarding Bynum.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



Hibachi! said:


> He finished with 61... He put on an amazing show. He hit some sick shots. I didn't see the other games where the records were established (so I don't know when they were scored), but he didn't even need to come in for the fourth quarter. The last 8 or so points were just a joke. Amazing game for Kobe though.


True, Kobe did break the record in garbage time, and of course didn't really do much of anything else. However I believe PJ left Kobe in the game to take the record to help boost moral for the team. PJ always thinking beyond the game in ways to effect the teams performance's. This is some nice news especially after the horrible news regarding Bynum.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

I believe he scored 16 points with his team up like 15+ after checking back in the 4th quarter. I have never seen a player try harder to get a shot off on every possession in garbage time than Kobe today.


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

Incredible night by Kobe. 61 on the road that's amazing. 61-0-3-0-1 is incredible... (you KNOW I had to do it right )


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

Who ****ing cares? Enjoy the performance and stop hating.

Edit: This was a response to SPMJ's post, not hendrix.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



SPMJ said:


> I believe he scored 16 points with his team up like 15+ after checking back in the 4th quarter. I have never seen a player try harder to get a shot off on every possession in garbage time than Kobe today.


He had 48 when it was a ten point game with the Knicks having momentum, yeah he stat-padded the last 7-8 or so, but it wasn't the last 16.

I know you hate Kobe/The Lakers, but come on, just be happy for the man.


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



23AJ said:


> I believe PJ left Kobe in the game to take the record to help boost moral for the team.


Good point. That's why I don't think this injury will mean that much. With Kobe, the Lakers can still win most of their games by outscoring people. I would be really surprised if they weren't #1 seed...


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



23AJ said:


> True, Kobe did break the record in garbage time, and of course didn't really do much of anything else. However I believe PJ left Kobe in the game to take the record to help boost moral for the team. PJ always thinking beyond the game in ways to effect the teams performance's. This is some nice news especially after the horrible news regarding Bynum.


Yeah I figured as much. Still reeked of Ricky Davisness to me. But I can't deny that even for Kobe I was watching him drop some shots that made my jaw hit the floor.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

Kobe the Beast Bryant has been unleashed on the League tonight. It's going to be fun to watch.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



Hibachi! said:


> Yeah I figured as much. Still reeked of Ricky Davisness to me. But I can't deny that even for Kobe I was watching him drop some shots that made my jaw hit the floor.


True, Kobe had that move/spin he put on Chandler, where chandler was faked right out of his shoes, and Kobe drops the leaner shot in all silky smooth off the spin. It's incredible how refined Kobe's made his game.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



hendrix2430 said:


> Good point. That's why I don't think this injury will mean that much. With Kobe, the Lakers can still win most of their games by outscoring people. I would be really surprised if they weren't #1 seed...


We shall see, It's going to get tighter in the West, but I agree Kobe/Pau should still keep them at number one in the West. However not by dominate amount that it was.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



hendrix2430 said:


> Good point. That's why I don't think this injury will mean that much. With Kobe, the Lakers can still win most of their games by outscoring people. I would be really surprised if they weren't #1 seed...


The Lakers are better then we were last year, have a bigger lead in the standings then last year, and the Lakers finished with the number one seed last year so I think every Laker fan would be incredibly dissapointed if we didn't get the number one seed.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

if kobe and the lakers beats the celtics (with kobe having a solid game) this thursday i believe the mvp race will then become officialy a 2 man race/


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## Vivaldi (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


That's almost 2 points a shot... That's bad? Seriously? Yeah they don't play defense but come on now. I didn't like the last 8 minutes more than anyone else, but he still had a great game. Should have ended with 50, but to completely write it off is ridiculous.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


That's 2 points a shot. That's really, really good.


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## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



SPMJ said:


> I believe he scored 16 points with his team up like 15+ after checking back in the 4th quarter. I have never seen a player try harder to get a shot off on every possession in garbage time than Kobe today.



Most of the people in the arena came to that specific game to see Kobe do something special. Judging by the crowds standing ovation, we on message boards have nothing to be bitter about, except for not being there in person.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


:laugh:


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


Tell me the next time that Wade drops 61, or even 50, or even 49! Quit hating, he played an incredible game.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



VanillaPrice said:


> Tell me the next time that Wade drops 61, or even 50, or even 49! Quit hating, he played an incredible game.


Not that it matters in this thread (because this is about Kobe's incredible game), but Wade has had a couple dozen games over 40 where he only played 30 minutes or less and then we sat him the rest of the game. eace:


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



The '93 Heat said:


> Not that it matters in this thread (because this is about Kobe's incredible game), but Wade has had a couple dozen games over 40 where he only played 30 minutes or less and then we sat him the rest of the game. eace:


yawn. kobe scored 56 and 62 pts in under 40 minutes (3 quarters), next!:admin:


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


Well because no other player has been able to score that amount in over 25 years makes it a little more special. And don't act like scoring 61 on 31 shots is anything but remarkable, the guy shot 19-31. What do you want him to do get 61 on 20 shots, maybe 10, how about 5 shots. Anyways Kobe was already in the MVP discussion but losing your second or third best player (depending who you ask, and what you value) puts him back in the MVP race if not for the simple fact that people want to see how he and the Lakers will respond to Bynum's devastating injury.

Another question why is Kobe the only one that ever gets any **** for going on scoring sprees. I'd understand it if he did it on bad percentages but I mean he freaking shot 19/31!! I've never seen a player get so much hate for every amazing performance, the guy can't please people it seems. He always did something wrong. Some of you disgust me with your pathetic attempt at hating Kobe by proclaiming that you want to see simple or perfect team basketball.

Kobe's statline could be:
20/20 FG, 5/5 3FG, 15/15 FT, 5 AST, 5 REB, 0 TO, and some idiot (SPMJ) would complain because "he took a forced shot in the 4th quarter when his team was already up 5, he has no need to take that shot..he is killing the team by forcing a shot at that particular time, even if he hasn't missed one"


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

Meh. This isn't even a top 5 scoring game for him, is it? 

Btw, you can really tell who watches the Lakers and who doesn't by those who claim that 10-15 points with 3-6 minutes to go is "out of reach". Lakers have routinely let leads dwindle to single digits, basically all season, in 1-3 minutes spans. Routine.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



aznzen said:


> yawn. kobe scored 56 and 62 pts in under 40 minutes (3 quarters), next!:admin:


Because he's the best scorer of all-time. You act like I'm even arguing that.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



lakegz said:


> Most of the people in the arena came to that specific game to see Kobe do something special.


Oh yes, shameless statpadding becomes OK because MSG was packed(which it never is). Great logic 

Nobody who watched the game can deny that the game was pretty much over by the 5 minute mark. Kobe scored almost all of his final 16 points during that period. And he tried his heart out ON EVERY POSSESSION to get the ball and score. The Knicks were barely even competing. I have never seen statpadding like this. Well, I have. Kobe's done this before.


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## Vivaldi (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

I'm not trying to diss Kobe, but he has a high scoring game and all of the sudden he's MVP? What happened to a guy called lebron and what he's been doing all year long?


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*

People seem to forget that no lead is safe with these Lakers.

See: Game 4 vs Boston in 2008 NBA Finals.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



The '93 Heat said:


> Because he's the best scorer of all-time. You act like I'm even arguing that.


why so serious chief


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> I'm not trying to diss Kobe, but he has a high scoring game and all of the sudden he's MVP? What happened to a guy called lebron and what he's been doing all year long?


This thread was created before the Lakers game tonight; but it turned into a discussion about Kobe going off for 61, hence the change of the title of the thread.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



SickGame said:


> See: Game 4 vs Boston in 2008 NBA Finals.


Yes, I remember LA blowing a 15 point point in the final 5 minutes of that game . I'm not ticked about Kobe actually being in the game today. My issue was with HOW he played with the game in the bag. Nobody with any respect for the game tries to jack up a shot on every possession in a near-blowout with the opposition barely competing.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



aznzen said:


> why so serious chief


It's this economy brah. I'm really worried. Think we'll pull through?


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Basel said:


> This thread was created before the Lakers game tonight; but it turned into a discussion about Kobe going off for 61, hence the change of the title of the thread.


qft


this thread is not about forgetting what lebron has been doing but rather what kobe may start doing given the circumstances.


keep in mind that kobe's last season and this year is eerily the same. kobe's not even included in mvp talks halfway last year. it was (Lebron,CP3 and KG) then boom bynum injured his knee, kobe went gaga and carried the lakers to finish with the 1st seed in the WC.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Basel said:


> This thread was created before the Lakers game tonight; but it turned into a discussion about Kobe going off for 61, hence the change of the title of the thread.


Lies, you had to change the title to make me look like a ******* on page 1 :laugh:


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



The '93 Heat said:


> Lies, you had to change the title to make me look like a ******* on page 1 :laugh:


:laugh:


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



The '93 Heat said:


> It's this economy brah. I'm really worried. Think we'll pull through?


hope and change. we'll be fine


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



SPMJ said:


> Yes, I remember LA blowing a 15 point point in the final 5 minutes of that game . I'm not ticked about Kobe actually being in the game today. My issue was with HOW he played with the game in the bag. Nobody with any respect for the game tries to jack up a shot on every possession in a near-blowout with the opposition barely competing.


Why are you bashing someone that just sealed the victory for L.A. and set a record in the process?

Quit hating, it's annoying.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



aznzen said:


> qft
> 
> keep in mind that kobe's last season and this year is eerily the same. kobe's not even included in mvp talks halfway last year. it was (Lebron,CP3 and KG) then boom bynum injured his knee, kobe went gaga and carried the lakers to finish with the 1st seed in the WC.


Don't be ridiculous. LA had the best record in the Western Conference prior to Bynum going down. Kobe was second to KG in the MVP race. KG went down and Boston did well, so the talk shifted to Kobe. CP3 and LeBron were never talked ahead of Kobe. Especially LeBron considering Cleveland's non-elite record. 

As far as Kobe's MVP chances this season are concerned. I don't see how he beats out LeBron, who is currently putting up the 6th best PER in league history and his team is bound to finish with a Top 4 record. And he's done all this with his 2nd best player missing 16 games and another starter missing a month.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


:lol:

How many shots is he supposed to take to get to 60? 20 shots? 22? Would it have been more acceptable if he took 35 free throws?


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

I'm surprised Nate Robinson didn't attack Kobe.


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## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



SPMJ said:


> Oh yes, shameless statpadding becomes OK because MSG was packed(which it never is). Great logic



Everyone knows its a special night when the lakers come to visit MSG simply because people cross their fingers that they get to see one of the games best go off. Also, the Lakers unfortunately only get to make one visit a year. Why does this game sell out before others on the schedule? You should also try asking the crowd why they chose this specific game to watch their Knicks. Ask the same question when the Knicks play any other team.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



SickGame said:


> People seem to forget that no lead is safe with these Lakers.
> 
> See: Game 4 vs Boston in 2008 NBA Finals.


The Knicks are clearly championship contenders...


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



VanillaPrice said:


> He had 48 when it was a ten point game with the Knicks having momentum, yeah he stat-padded the last 7-8 or so, but it wasn't the last 16.
> 
> I know you hate Kobe/The Lakers, but come on, just be happy for the man.


He's Katelyn Faber's boyfriend, of course he's going to hate.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Lebron nor Wade are as good a scorer as Kobe is they aren't as talented scoring wise. Kobe has the complete diverse game and knows how to ride the hot hand. Has Wade ever had a 50 pt game and maybe 8 40 pt games. Lebron has maybe 3-4 50 pt games. 

Kobe can ride the hot hand and is probably coming for Wade's scoring title now because of Bynum being out. 

Kobe has a good chance to get MVP if the Lakers stay amongst the league's elite ie Te Celts, Cavs and Magic.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^Any player that gets to the line a lot should be able to put up a lot of points. Especially if they take 30 shots.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

wow don't hate, participate.

one of the best individual performance this year, no doubt.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> Lebron nor Wade are as good a scorer as Kobe is they aren't as talented scoring wise. Kobe has the complete diverse game and knows how to ride the hot hand. Has Wade ever had a 50 pt game and maybe 8 40 pt games. Lebron has maybe 3-4 50 pt games.
> 
> Kobe can ride the hot hand and is probably coming for Wade's scoring title now because of Bynum being out.
> 
> Kobe has a good chance to get MVP if the Lakers stay amongst the league's elite ie Te Celts, Cavs and Magic.


One thing I don't understand, actually this questions is directed at everyone, not just you, but, how is Kobe deserving of MVP if the Lakers simply stay at the top? He still has a hell of a supporting cast, and a better one then Lebron. Shouldn't LeBron receive more credit for keeping his teams record up with the Lakers without having as talented of a team? With or without Bynum, the Lakers are probably the tops in the West. Simply because he went down shouldn't automatically give Kobe MVP votes because they stayed good.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Kobe stats vs LeBron's stats (from March 08) vs the Knicks


*Kobe * 
61 points 
19-31 (fg) 
3-6 (3PM-A) 
20-20 free throws 
0 rebounds 
3 assists 
0 steals 
1 block

*LeBron * 
50 points 
16-30 (fg) 
7-13 (3pm-a) 
11-16 (ft) 
8 rebounds 
10 assists 
4 steals
0 blocks



This year, LeBron hasn't played in the 4th quarter against the Knicks since the games were already out of reach.


----------



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



SPMJ said:


> Don't be ridiculous. LA had the best record in the Western Conference prior to Bynum going down. Kobe was second to KG in the MVP race. KG went down and Boston did well, so the talk shifted to Kobe. CP3 and LeBron were never talked ahead of Kobe. Especially LeBron considering Cleveland's non-elite record.


none of this is true (of course). your just like duncan2k5 when posting baseless statements. (seriously MSG was not sold out tonight? when the leagues most attractive road team is in town? roflles.


anyway*kobe got start getting mvp mention when bynum went down and kobe tore detroit,toronto,washington and had that buzzer beater in seattle, by then the lakers acquired pau and he helped finished the season strong and kobe bumped his numbers along the way in that second half. *




im challenging you to find a link or any archive before bynum went down that kobe is ahead of cp3,lebron and kg in mvp considerations / after snubs from the media year after year, every lakers fan knows that kobe was not going to get it last year (his stats were down across the board, in comparison from his 2 previous seasons). lakers were just fortunate to get a player like pau that pretty much sealed it for him.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


:lol:

This was just golden. Thank you for this post and the easy laugh along with it. I clicked this thread thinking SPMJ and ChrisRichards would be the ones bringing quality hate, but you completely blew anything they are going to post. Fun game to watch.


----------



## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



SPMJ said:


> What shameless statpadding.


Only to be followed by shameless trolling in this thread.


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



Darth Bryant said:


> Only to be followed by shameless trolling in this thread.


Oh snap! :lol:


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



Vivaldi said:


> Why because he scored 61 by taking 31 shots against a team that plays no defense?


I guess it's also a bad ratio to score 30 points on 15 shots ?


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



SPMJ said:


> Oh yes, shameless statpadding becomes OK because MSG was packed(which it never is). Great logic
> 
> Nobody who watched the game can deny that the game was pretty much over by the 5 minute mark. Kobe scored almost all of his final 16 points during that period. And he tried his heart out ON EVERY POSSESSION to get the ball and score. The Knicks were barely even competing. I have never seen statpadding like this. Well, I have. Kobe's done this before.


are you saying kobe shouldn't have come in at the 7:50 mark with his team up 12 on the road?

are you saying once he came in, he shouldn't have tried to score?

at that point, with a 12 point game, kobe should have just kept the score relatively close?

kobe, came into a 12 point game in the 4th, helped it balloon to 20, and left, so the knicks could score the final 11 points. 

if the other team is not competing, on their home floor, they don't deserve ****. 

how many guys could score 61 pts in 37 minutes on 31 fga's and be called out for stat padding. had the same substitution patterns and shot attempts occurred in a game where he only scored 35, you wouldn't be saying jack. the only anomaly here is that he actually scored 61.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

f22egl said:


> Kobe stats vs LeBron's stats (from March 08) vs the Knicks
> 
> 
> *Kobe *
> ...


lol, poor Knicks.

Amazing game by Kobe last night. Sadly I missed it, so I'll have to watch replays or fire up league pass broadband to catch it.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Another legendary display by a living legend...this place really annoys me sometimes. What kind of person puts a negative slant on 61? Someone who's never and never will do anything as memorable, and needs a reason to downplay someone else doing their thing. Hope you feel better..but it's going to be a cold month for you, cause we know how Kobe acts in February.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

As far as MVP though, I think the Cavs are gonna end up with a better record, and on talent disparity alone Lebron deserves the award. I would say it's going to be a closer debate now, but as long as the Cavs keep their pace it's still Lebron's. Then again though, if the Lakers still end up with 60 plus who knows. The race got worth talking about once Bynum went down.


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

Kobe is a freaking basketball god! Doesn't his body know that he's supposed to be tired after taking his team to the Finals and winning the Gold medal over the summer???

Got to give it up to Kobe, he's a soldier - he fights through his pain and delivers incredibly. Gotta hate those sofites who don't play unless they are 110% like Beno Udrih.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> As far as MVP though, I think the Cavs are gonna end up with a better record, and on talent disparity alone Lebron deserves the award. I would say it's going to be a closer debate now, but as long as the Cavs keep their pace it's still Lebron's. Then again though, if the Lakers still end up with 60 plus who knows. The race got worth talking about once Bynum went down.


If the Lakers and Cavs both keep up the pace though and win 60ish, do you feel LeBron should get it? Like you said, there's a talent disparity. Based on that, I think LeBron should win even with similar records because he doesn't have as strong of a team.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

I think it's simply amazing what Kobe has done.

... And I'm not talking about putting up 61 points.
But rather the fact that Kobe Bryant is the only in player in history (outside of Wilt presumably) to put up SIXTY POINTS (which is a ridiculous number considering that most teams average between 90 to 100 points a game) and be CRITICIZED for it.

Are you guys realizing this? He put up 61 points on a shooting percentage higher than 50.
His team wins. 
Yet he gets criticized.

No player in the history of the league has achieved such a feat.
That is the truly amazing part.
Somehow or another, Kobe Bryant has made scoring 60 points not only a nonchalant feat, but one that leaves room somehow or another for criticism.
Who else has ever done such a thing? 

If any other player in the league does this, including Pierce, Lebron or Wade, posters would be in awe, on their knees with mouths wide open (presumably not like Eddy Curry's driver anymore).
But for Kobe Bryant? What a ball hog, what a stiff, what a phony, what a stat padder, what a bum....

Ridiculous. Since when did scoring 60 points become anything but something to marvel at?



Blows my mind...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Not that I am complaining about the feat, but whats wrong with hating? Not everyone can sip Kobe's kool-aid. Even MJ had his die hard haters


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

By that logic I guess there's nothing wrong with being a child molester, hell there are already tons of them out there...we all can't sip anti-pedophilia koolaid.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

HB said:


> Not that I am complaining about the feat, but whats wrong with hating? Not everyone can sip Kobe's kool-aid. Even MJ had his die hard haters


it's not really drinking kool-aid to appreciate a 61 point performance.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

HB said:


> Not that I am complaining about the feat, but whats wrong with hating? Not everyone can sip Kobe's kool-aid. Even MJ had his die hard haters


Hater or not, it's a sixty one point performance. Any basketball purist should simply applaud the fact that a player was able to put up so many points on 31 shots. If you have even played one game of competitive basketball, even highschool, you should not fail at at recognizing the beauty of a player putting up over 60 points.
Kobe or not kobe.

It's not the player but rather his ability to put up that many points.
Having it happen in the MSG is just frosting.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

HB said:


> Not that I am complaining about the feat, but whats wrong with hating? Not everyone can sip Kobe's kool-aid. Even MJ had his die hard haters


It's ok to not like Kobe, but hating on a performance like this would be approaching 23AJ/DNKO territory. And I don't think you want to be there...


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

come on HB. let Vince put up 61, you would be going goo-goo gah-gah.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

and like EHL, I believe this wasn't even a top5 scoring game for him. 81, 62 in 3, 56 in 3 (memphis) and 47 in playoffs round 1 2001 vs spurs would be 4 better. this isn't the fifth. but, it was still patently amazing to witness his level of focus last night. no missed free throws--that's concentration.


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## sylaw (Nov 7, 2002)

*Re: Kobe Score 61 @ MSG/Kobe Back-2-Back MVP?*



f22egl said:


> The Knicks are clearly championship contenders...


You must not follow the Lakers at all if you think double figure leads are safe. They blew a huge lead at Indiana this season and lost by one. They also blew a huge lead and won by one at Washington. Those two are not exactly title contenders either.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You do know that even Kobe's haters begrudgingly respect him as a bonafide scorer. 

When SPMJ makes a point that with 3 mins left to go the Lakers were leading by 16, and Kobe was still chucking, you guys say he is wrong for pointing that out?



> By that logic I guess there's nothing wrong with being a child molester, hell there are already tons of them out there...we all can't sip anti-pedophilia koolaid.


What sense does this make? You couldn't come up with something better to equate Kobe's scoring output with? Yes I guess one of the most vile acts in human nature is comparable to a scoring outburst :whoknows:


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

HB said:


> You do know that even Kobe's haters begrudgingly respect him as a bonafide scorer.


We only hate because he is given too much props (i.e. he's better than Jordan) and everyone outside of LA pretty much hates the Lakers and everything they stand for. Just like how we all secretly say to ourselves when we see a skateboarder, "Fall, please fall. Do it. Fall!" We think, "Collapse, don't make the playoffs, have some injuries to cause a first round exit," about the Lakers.


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## rayz789 (Oct 30, 2008)

Yay Kobe got 61 points vs a no good knicks team. The bandwagon Lakers fans won't put up stats on that game but i will. Kobe not only got 61 points but got 0 REBOUNDS AND 3 ASSIST!!! And The Lakers were already up big like 3 or 2 minutes to go and phil still let Kobe in the game. Yea i bet Kobe told Phil ( Please keep putting me in the game. I want to be selfish and make history) 



At least when Lebron got 50 points last year vs the Knicks at the garden, he got 10 ASSIST ALONG WITH 8 REBOUNDS TO GO WITH IT!!! 


I'll take 50 points, 10 assist, 8 rebounds over 61 points, 3 assist, 0 rebounds any day of the week.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

The hating on this board is pathetic.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe back2back MVP?*



23AJ said:


> The table is set for Kobe to do it now, if he can keep the Lakers with the best record in the league, and if Kobe puts up huge number while doing it, plus I'm sure games will be a lot closer so we will all see more Kobe clutch buckets, the flare for dramatic goes a long way in this league. And if the Cavs falter , with LeBron playing sub par games, like he usually does in their losses. Kobe could really be the MVP this year. It's going to be a much more interesting second half of the season now, no doubt about it.


That would be the second best record in the NBA, and the Lakers have a road heavy schedule to close the year out. They're playing 60% of their remaining games on the road and at this point, based on their present home/road split, they would project out to 65 wins. However that road record was accumulated with Bynum, so I'm not sure that they can keep the pace up without him. Based on present home/road splits Boston projects out to 66 wins. As an added benefit Boston also has one of the lightest schedules from here on in (only Milwaukee & Sacramento have played more games), so they should have an easier time keeping up their pace than LA. Cleveland, based on present home/road splits projects out to 67 wins, so all told it would appear that 'Bron will get his makeup MVP this year (as Kobe got his last year).


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

SickGame said:


> I think it's simply amazing what Kobe has done.
> 
> ... And I'm not talking about putting up 61 points.
> But rather the fact that Kobe Bryant is the only in player in history (outside of Wilt presumably) to put up SIXTY POINTS (which is a ridiculous number considering that most teams average between 90 to 100 points a game) and be CRITICIZED for it.
> ...


People can get ridiculed for stat padding when the game is over. It happens all the time. David Robinson was widely criticized for his 71 points with the Spurs when scored 71. Some people believe in sportsmanship. But you have to remember scoring the most points in a game is held by Wilt who admits he was trying to pad his stats in that game.

I have to think any other star player who plays to pad his stats when the game is out of reach is going to face criticism. Gilbert Arenas had 46 points through 3 quarters against the Knicks (with only 16 shots) and sat out the 4th quarter. If he had played in the 4th quarter with the game already out of reach, many would have criticized him.

By the way, Michael Jordan scored 69 points by shooting 62% from the field, in a game decided by 4 rebounds. I would venture a guess that a majority of players who have scored 60 points or more has shot above 50%


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Kobe's performance last night was impressive. Not as impressive as Jordan's 55 in the garden in his 3rd game back after retirement, against the reigning Eastern Conference Champions, but impressive nonetheless. 

Some of the shots he made last night were just ridiculous. They'd be bad shots for just about anyone else.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

f22egl said:


> People can get ridiculed for stat padding when the game is over. It happens all the time. David Robinson was widely criticized for his 71 points with the Spurs when scored 71. Some people believe in sportsmanship. But you have to remember scoring the most points in a game is held by Wilt who admits he was trying to pad his stats in that game.
> 
> I have to think any other star player who plays to pad his stats when the game is out of reach is going to face criticism. Gilbert Arenas had 46 points through 3 quarters against the Knicks (with only 16 shots) and sat out the 4th quarter. If he had played in the 4th quarter with the game already out of reach, many would have criticized him.
> 
> By the way, Michael Jordan scored 69 points by shooting 62% from the field, in a game decided by 4 rebounds. I would venture a guess that a majority of players who have scored 60 points or more has shot above 50%


I think that's one of the more fundamental differences between MJ and Kobe. MJ's best scoring games (55 points against NY, 55 against Phoenix in the finals, 69 against a VERY GOOD Cavs team, 63 against Boston in the playoffs, etc) came against VERY GOOD competition, with PLENTY on the line. If there's one knock on Kobe, its the level of competition he's had these scoring outbursts against (Toronto, D'antoni's Knicks). It's never been against the spurs in the playoffs, or the celtics in the finals, or the pistons in the finals, etc.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

The Krakken said:


> I think that's one of the more fundamental differences between MJ and Kobe. MJ's best scoring games (55 points against NY, 55 against Phoenix in the finals, 69 against a VERY GOOD Cavs team, 63 against Boston in the playoffs, etc) came against VERY GOOD competition, with PLENTY on the line. If there's one knock on Kobe, its the level of competition he's had these scoring outbursts against (Toronto, D'antoni's Knicks). It's never been against the spurs in the playoffs, or the celtics in the finals, or the pistons in the finals, etc.


Well Kobe did drop 62 points through 3 quarters against a Dallas team that eventually ended up going to the NBA finals. I agree that Kobe needs more performances like this in the playoffs to be considered up there with MJ. But as far as a regular season game goes, Kobe played out of his mind in this game against the Knicks, but it would be more impressive if he even dropped 50 on the Celtics.


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## sylaw (Nov 7, 2002)

rayz789 said:


> Yay Kobe got 61 points vs a no good knicks team. The bandwagon Lakers fans won't put up stats on that game but i will. Kobe not only got 61 points but got 0 REBOUNDS AND 3 ASSIST!!! And The Lakers were already up big like 3 or 2 minutes to go and phil still let Kobe in the game. Yea i bet Kobe told Phil ( Please keep putting me in the game. I want to be selfish and make history)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It took 8 pages before a blind hater brought up the fact that he had 0 rebounds and 3 assists. I thought that SPMJ or Hibachi would do it but a newer hater brought it up first. I'm extremely disappointed in you two.


I also love the fact that the 61 points is downplayed since we all know that everyone can do it even though no one has done it in the last two seasons besides Kobe.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Funny that merely pointing out that he shouldn't even be out there when they're up 16 with 5 minutes left and getting the ball every time and shooting makes me some sort of a hater. Like I said, I found his other games such as the one against Dallas way cooler because they came in the flow of the game. He sat out the fourth quarter because the game was out of reach. I've seen the Lakers drop the lead, but I don't think anyone would argue that Kobe would be sitting on the pine at that point if he didn't have that many points. Laker fans are quite defensive about their Kobe, and it's to a point where it's almost hilarious. I guess it comes with the territory. Say something about A-Rod and his ****ty playoff performance and Yankee fans call you a hater, say something about Kobe and you're once again just a "hater." 

He had an amazing game, but I didn't find it as impressive as his others because he clearly should have finished with 50-53 points max. That's a testament to how amazing Kobe is at scoring. If that makes me a hater then so be it.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Hibachi! said:


> Funny that merely pointing out that he shouldn't even be out there when they're up 16 with 5 minutes left and getting the ball every time and shooting makes me some sort of a hater. Like I said, I found his other games such as the one against Dallas way cooler because they came in the flow of the game. He sat out the fourth quarter because the game was out of reach. I've seen the Lakers drop the lead, but I don't think anyone would argue that Kobe would be sitting on the pine at that point if he didn't have that many points. Laker fans are quite defensive about their Kobe, and it's to a point where it's almost hilarious. I guess it comes with the territory. Say something about A-Rod and his ****ty playoff performance and Yankee fans call you a hater, say something about Kobe and you're once again just a "hater."
> 
> He had an amazing game, but I didn't find it as impressive as his others because he clearly should have finished with 50-53 points max. That's a testament to how amazing Kobe is at scoring. If that makes me a hater then so be it.


For what it's worth, I haven't called you a hater in this thread. I did say it about SPMJ and rayz789, though.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Hibachi! said:


> Funny that merely pointing out that he shouldn't even be out there when they're up 16 with 5 minutes left and getting the ball every time and shooting makes me some sort of a hater. Like I said, I found his other games such as the one against Dallas way cooler because they came in the flow of the game. He sat out the fourth quarter because the game was out of reach. I've seen the Lakers drop the lead, but I don't think anyone would argue that Kobe would be sitting on the pine at that point if he didn't have that many points. Laker fans are quite defensive about their Kobe, and it's to a point where it's almost hilarious. I guess it comes with the territory. Say something about A-Rod and his ****ty playoff performance and Yankee fans call you a hater, say something about Kobe and you're once again just a "hater."
> 
> He had an amazing game, but I didn't find it as impressive as his others because he clearly should have finished with 50-53 points max. That's a testament to how amazing Kobe is at scoring. If that makes me a hater then so be it.


A record breaking feat is something that is going to bring up the teams morale, and after the Bynum injury it is great for them to have something to cheer about. Nobody is argueing that this was better then the Dallas game, but 61 points is damn impressive no matter who you are.

And I don't really see anyone calling you a hater, I mean you don't like Kobe, but your don't constantly ***** about him and complain about everything he does, your just critical of him and thats fine.


It's really just SPMJ (What a surprise) and that rayz guy that are haters, and I mean come on, the crap that they are saying is ridiculous.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

f22egl said:


> Well Kobe did drop 62 points through 3 quarters against a Dallas team that eventually ended up going to the NBA finals.


To me that was more impressive. However....isn't that the same Dallas team that proved once and for all that they couldn't stop dominant shooting guards at all? How many FT's did Wade take in the finals again?


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

The Krakken said:


> I think that's one of the more fundamental differences between MJ and Kobe. MJ's best scoring games (55 points against NY, 55 against Phoenix in the finals, 69 against a VERY GOOD Cavs team, 63 against Boston in the playoffs, etc) came against VERY GOOD competition, with PLENTY on the line. If there's one knock on Kobe, its the level of competition he's had these scoring outbursts against (Toronto, D'antoni's Knicks). It's never been against the spurs in the playoffs, or the celtics in the finals, or the pistons in the finals, etc.


5/13/01, Game 4, Western Conference Semifinals, Arco Arena: Lakers 119, Kings 113
Kobe's line: 48 mins, 48 pts, 16 rebs, 3 asts, 2 stls, 15-29 shooting.

5/19/01, Game 1, Western Conference Finals, Alamodome: Lakers 104, Spurs 90
Kobe's line: 47 mins, 45 pts, 10 rebs, 3 asts, 19-35 shooting.

5/11/04, Game 4, Western Conference Semifinals, Staples Center: Lakers 98, Spurs 90
Kobe's line: 45 mins, 42 pts, 5 rebs, 5 asts, 3 stls, 15-27 shooting.

6/8/04, Game 2, NBA Finals, Staples Center: Lakers 99, Pistons 91 OT
Kobe's line: 49 mins, 33 pts, 4 rebs, 7 asts, 2 stls, 14-27 shooting.

(Not a scoring outburst, but a great game, and unfortunately, his only good game of the series).

He's had a ton of other notable performances in the playoffs - maybe not all scoring outbursts, but he's done some damage against very good/great teams in the playoffs.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I saw this game on league pass. What was interesting was Kobe was all about business from the opening tip, no laughing or joking whatsoever. I think he wanted to send a message of confidence to his teammates that even with Bynum going down, they could stay on top. 

The Knicks though are dumb for playing him 1 on 1 so much. But given how easily Gasol was scoring, I guess they didn't have a choice because when they doubled Gasol was running a layup drill inside. 

Also Wilson Chandler played pretty good defense all night but Kobe was just lighting him up from everywhere using every move in the book. One of the better scoring performances I have seen given the number of deep jumpers he was hitting.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

kobe scored 61 pts on a ts% of 77%, his coach puts him in the game with 8 minutes left in the 4th with his team only up 12, and he scores 15 pts in the next 5 minutes. game over. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=281105005

here's a game log from earlier in the year when lebron scored 41 against the bulls. not exactly the same, but not that different. he comes in in the 4th, scores 9 points in 3 minutes to build the lead up to 16, and leaves. that's what these guys do. they're assassins. kobe just happened to finish this game with 61. in the garden. did the garden record and 60 pts mean anything to kobe? likely. but he's also in there to do a job. and lead his team.


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## kzero (Apr 30, 2006)

Didn't Kobe get criticized for sitting after 3 quarters against Dallas that one time? Which one do you want him to do? Sit down or keep playing? Make up your minds. I wouldn't be surprised if he took 0 shots next game after hearing all the negativity just to be like, "Well here you go."


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Not to refute your points Basel, but MJ had many more of those type games. I deliberately left out all his *40-50* pt playoff performances. The year he scored 63 against boston, he averaged about 50 per game in that series. Before his big night against phoenix, he was already tearing them a new one and had had several other 40 point games.

And that was back during a time, where you could grab, hold, foul, etc. Some of those bumps last night, weren't even fouls on MJ in the playoffs. In that regard, the two are not comparable.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

D'Antoni's knicks. enough said.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

ChrisRichards said:


> D'Antoni's knicks. enough said.


Still impressive.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Basel said:


> Still impressive.


Agreed. Not like anyone else has done it yet.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

The Krakken said:


> Agreed. Not like anyone else has done it yet.


Exactly; ChrisRichards makes it sound like anybody could go out and do what he did because, after all, it's D'Antoni's Knicks.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

I am impressed of Byrant's FG%. It was good in this game, but once again, against a crappy defensive team... D'Antoni's Knicks. 

Here is DAVID LEE's quote :

*“He wouldn’t speak to anyone on the court. He was very quiet tonight. By the time he hit his first two 3s, you could see what he was attempting to do in the game,” David Lee said.

“It was very obvious to all of us by the middle of the first quarter that he wasn’t in a distributing type of mode or in a getting 10 rebounds type of mode, that he was going to try to score the basketball tonight.”*

Translation : Bryant went into ball hog mode again. It doesn't come in the flow of the game. 

Don't act like superstars aren't talented enough to score a lot of points. I just would barely ever catch Wade ball-hogging so much. He would feel ashamed of himself and involve his teammates.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Yeah, he was a ballhog last night...

:sarcasm:

When you're in that kind of zone, I think you should keep shooting. He led his team to a victory. Stop hating and appreciate greatness.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

and I also don't feel the slight bit impressed by the "breaks record in MSG" because Jordan (not sure about Bernard King) scored all those high points against GOOD Knick teams that actually played defense.

the Knicks are in rebuild mode right now with a dysfunctional team coached by a guy who doesn't know how to play Defense. Isn't that what D'Antoni was thrown out of Phoenix for? His style of ball doesn't work.

put things in perspective. Why doesn't Bryant ever do these things against the elite teams of the NBA? Majority of the time he struggles, that's why.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> I am impressed of Byrant's FG%. It was good in this game, but once again, against a crappy defensive team... D'Antoni's Knicks.
> 
> Here is DAVID LEE's quote :
> 
> ...



Do you honestly believe that Wade has the offensive skillset to drop 60 points on anyone on 50% or higher?

Let alone five times, come on do you even listen to yourself?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

ChrisRichards said:


> I am impressed of Byrant's FG%. It was good in this game, but once again, against a crappy defensive team... D'Antoni's Knicks.
> 
> Here is DAVID LEE's quote :
> 
> ...


:lol: So, everybody knew from early on that Kobe was in attack mode, and STILL nobody could do anything about it? I guess that sais it all right there...

Reading this thread reminded me (again) that people just can't deal with their sentiments regarding Kobe Bryant. That's pretty funny, people hating on this Kobe game. And bringing up D-Rob, who was spoon-fed, Wilt-style, to get his points.

Apparently, Kobe Bryant decided to make this a statement game. Like "i injured Andrew, but i will push it up to compensate and show that the Lakers are still here" kinda game. So he went his way to drop 60 freaking points. How can one NOT apreciate that kind of resolve? That kind of drive? That's Kobe Bryant at his freaking best: ****ing you up and then coming back to **** you up again. 

Although i have always been very critical of Kobe Bryant and his "i'll shoot us into or out of this game" aproach, i can't really day nothing bad about his NY game. Bynum is injured. Doubts mount in the minds of basketball fans an Lakers supoorters. Then Kobe steps up to the plate and delivers an astonishing performance. 61 freaking points. It's like he was saying "**** it, give me the ball and i will carry us!" Loved it.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

> 61 points against the Knicks on Monday, Kobe Bryant broke a tie with Michael Jordan to move into sole possession of second place on the league's all-time list with five 60-point games in his career.
> 
> Wilt Chamberlain holds the record with 32 games of 60 or more points.


i bet kobe ends with a dozen 60 point games before he retires


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

aznzen said:


> i bet kobe ends with a dozen 60 point games before he retires


I highly doubt it.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

ChrisRichards said:


> Don't act like superstars aren't talented enough to score a lot of points. I just would barely ever catch Wade ball-hogging so much. He would feel ashamed of himself and involve his teammates.


Like he did in the finals against Dallas? :sarcasm:


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

Kobes just showing why hes the mvp. thats the bottom line. all u haters can hate all u want, but come june, kobe will be holding that finals MVP.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Basel said:


> I highly doubt it.


you doubt everything i said.


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## Venom110 (Apr 3, 2003)

ChrisRichards said:


> The Knicks are in rebuild mode right now with a dysfunctional team coached by a guy who doesn't know how to play Defense. Isn't that what D'Antoni was thrown out of Phoenix for? His style of ball doesn't work.


Hey, lets please leave Phoenix out of this. I am sure several Suns fans would love to have D'antoni back on their sidelines. Matter of a fact, I think D'antoni's style has proven to be quite effective, at least more effective than his hall-of-fame bound immediate predecessors in New York (Larry Brown and Zeke), and last I checked those Knicks were riding a 3 game winning streak going into last night's game. Also the same Knicks are only one game out of the 8th spot in the much improved Eastern Conference. Bottom Line, the Knicks are an NBA team and quite possibly will be an NBA Playoff team at season's end, so lets please just acknowledge that 61 points in an NBA game is a remarkable accomplishment and move on from there...


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Basel said:


> 5/13/01, Game 4, Western Conference Semifinals, Arco Arena: Lakers 119, Kings 113
> Kobe's line: 48 mins, 48 pts, 16 rebs, 3 asts, 2 stls, 15-29 shooting.
> 
> 5/19/01, Game 1, Western Conference Finals, Alamodome: Lakers 104, Spurs 90
> ...


Basel lays the hammer down!

The morale of the team and fans was unquestionably diminished after Bynum's injury. This was Kobe's way of saying, 'no worries'. To Hibachi, add me to the list of people who do not think you're a hater. You dislike Kobe and always provide logical reasoning for it. Our comments were directed towards the usual cast of BBF stooges.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

Are you laker fans more concern about personal accolades or winning the championship? Personally, I hope this Kobe stays for the rest of the season. That will garauntee another ring for Boston. True Kobe scored 61 but look at what the rest of the team did. Also, if Kobe tries to play at a high level for the rest of the season, he will not have have enough in the tank if they do make i to the finals.

And when this season is all said and done, he will be remember for his failure to win a title this year and nobody will remember his amazing 61 point performance.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> Are you laker fans more concern about personal accolades or winning the championship? Personally, I hope this Kobe stays for the rest of the season. That will garauntee another ring for Boston. True Kobe scored 61 but look at what the rest of the team did. Also, if Kobe tries to play at a high level for the rest of the season, he will not have have enough in the tank if they do make i to the finals.
> 
> And when this season is all said and done, he will be remember for his failure to win a title this year and nobody will remember his amazing 61 point performance.


What the ****? Where in this thread has ANY Lakers fan stated that they are more concerned with the personal accolades than the Championship? And what's with everyone assuming that what Kobe did last night means that's how he'll continue to play. It was ONE game and given the news that had happened earlier that day, it was basically Kobe sending a message to his team (and everyone else in the league) that the loss of Bynum, by no means, means that their season is over.

And yes, look at what the rest of the team did. Pau Gasol had 31 points, 14 rebounds and 5 assists; Odom grabbed 14 rebounds, dished out 4 assists and played great defense all game. Trevor Ariza came off the bench and scored 13 points and pulled down 8 boards. It's not like everyone just disappeared while Kobe went off. They were still involved in the game in one way or another.

And don't underestimate how much Kobe has left in the tank; you'd be surprised.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Basel lays the hammer down!


Is that what pulling a few examples out of the hat is....laying the hammer down? What does that make this? An Atom Bomb?



> Top Playoff Single-Game Scoring Performances
> Player Team Opponent Total Date
> *Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986*
> Elgin Baylor L.A. Lakers at Boston 61 April 14, 1962
> ...


Of the top 28 performances, MJ accounts for 7 of them (25%). THis includes HALF (50%) of the top 10 performances, and of course the top performance of them all. Kobe? Zero. Not one time. Not once when it matters most. Do you really want to go down that road? Comparing their playoff records? Please stop cheerleading before I start pulling up Career stats, including playoffs, comparing the two and embarrass you.

Actually scratch that. Its a waste of time. Some of those who cheerlead for him are as bad as his haters.

Basel, this is not directed at you. Just the cheerleader. You and I see eye to eye.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

That's the thing, though. My post wasn't meant to be used as a comparison. It was just used to show that he HAS had big games against some of the better teams in the playoffs, though not as many as Jordan obviously.

I wasn't trying to compare the two, nor do I think they should be. People need to stop comparing them. Let Kobe be Kobe and Michael be Michael. Each has their own legacy - let it stay that way.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Basel said:


> That's the thing, though. My post wasn't meant to be used as a comparison. It was just used to show that he HAS had big games against some of the better teams in the playoffs, though not as many as Jordan obviously.
> 
> I wasn't trying to compare the two, nor do I think they should be. People need to stop comparing them. Let Kobe be Kobe and Michael be Michael. Each has their own legacy - let it stay that way.


Oh, I agree. I was just sniping back at the person who decided to become a cheerleader. It was more a matter of shutting him up than it was disagreeing with you.

His post wreaked of "take that". My response to him was, "take what"? Maybe worded a little stronger than that....but then...:sparta:


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

You clearly don't know BH, then. He's far from a "cheerleader". The fact is, I did lay the hammer down! :sparta:



:biggrin:


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Fair enough.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

On a side note, I think its pretty embarrassing that I have that statsheet saved to my hard drive for all the Kobe fans whenever they start raving about "he's better than MJ", and other such nonsense.

He's more talented in that he's a better shooter than MJ. Perhaps even a better ballhandler (this is debatable). But it ends there.

I really need to let go of my obsessive need to defend "the legacy".


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> Is that what pulling a few examples out of the hat is....laying the hammer down? What does that make this? An Atom Bomb?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What the **** does this have to do with anything? You said Kobe did not do this against top flight competition, Basel proved otherwise. Then you go and pull Jordan's name and accomplishments in this. Where is the logic behind this? Yes, Jordan has more examples. This does not change the fact Kobe has in fact performed such feats against contending teams. I do not understand why Jordan is brought in to discredit Kobe's accomplishments. Believe it or not, you can be not as good as Jordan and still in fact be a damn good player. This standard does not seem to apply to Kobe.

And if you think I'm a cheerleader, feel free to search any of my Kobe threads on the Lakers forum regarding his defense over the years.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

Basel said:


> What the ****? Where in this thread has ANY Lakers fan stated that they are more concerned with the personal accolades than the Championship? And what's with everyone assuming that what Kobe did last night means that's how he'll continue to play. It was ONE game and given the news that had happened earlier that day, it was basically Kobe sending a message to his team (and everyone else in the league) that the loss of Bynum, by no means, means that their season is over.
> 
> And yes, look at what the rest of the team did. Pau Gasol had 31 points, 14 rebounds and 5 assists; Odom grabbed 14 rebounds, dished out 4 assists and played great defense all game. Trevor Ariza came off the bench and scored 13 points and pulled down 8 boards. It's not like everyone just disappeared while Kobe went off. They were still involved in the game in one way or another.
> 
> *And don't underestimate how much Kobe has left in the tank; you'd be surprised*.



Just like he surprise everyone in the finals last year. :tonbricks:

And what was Kobe message to the Lakers and the rest of the league....


" TAKE NOTICE MERE MORTALS ... AS LONG AS I SCORE 60+ POINTS AND YOU PLAY ABSOLUTELY NO DEFENSE, AND ARE SUB .500. BE PREPARED TO TAKE A 9 POINT BEAT DOWN BY YOUR LORD AND MASTER" 

:allhail:


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

The Krakken said:


> On a side note, I think its pretty embarrassing that I have that statsheet saved to my hard drive for all the Kobe fans whenever they start raving about "he's better than MJ", and other such nonsense.
> 
> He's more talented in that he's a better shooter than MJ. Perhaps even a better ballhandler (this is debatable). But it ends there.
> *
> I really need to let go of my obsessive need to defend "the legacy".*


You're not the only one.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> Just like he surprise everyone in the finals last year. :tonbricks:
> 
> And what was Kobe message to the Lakers and the rest of the league....
> 
> ...


*EDIT.*


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Jorbroni said:


> Just like he surprise everyone in the finals last year. :tonbricks:
> 
> And what was Kobe message to the Lakers and the rest of the league....
> 
> ...


*EDIT.*


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Kobe Bryant best player in the game, it is what it is.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> What the **** does this have to do with anything? You said Kobe did not do this against top flight competition, Basel proved otherwise. Then you go and pull Jordan's name and accomplishments in this. Where is the logic behind this? Yes, Jordan has more examples. This does not change the fact Kobe has in fact performed such feats against contending teams. I do not understand why Jordan is brought in to discredit Kobe's accomplishments. Believe it or not, you can be not as good as Jordan and still in fact be a damn good player. This standard does not seem to apply to Kobe.
> 
> And if you think I'm a cheerleader, feel free to search any of my Kobe threads on the Lakers forum regarding his defense over the years.


Hardly. My point was that UNLIKE MJ, his heroics don't translate into the post season. Jordan's heroics actually became GREATER in the postseason, as the competition became more fierce. Outside of one example that Basel Gave (the one where Kobe damn near had a triple double), that isn't the case. When the competition gets fierce, Kobe tames down a bit. It isn't a knock on him, its reality. Those examples are the exception that prove the rule. Especially since they are so few.

And Jordan's name was littered throughout this entire thread since the first page. If people want to talk about "breaking MJ's this and that", then its fair to point out the other side. Kobe is far far away. In fact, until I re-visited that graphic, I didn't realize exactly HOW far away he is.

And just as an aside: I really don't know the answer to this, but did any of those best playoff games come without Shaq?

It actually doesn't matter, but I'm genuinely curious. Cause I know for sure Shaq was still on the team at that time.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Kobe Bryant best player in the game, it is what it is.


Now there's a statement I can get behind. Of this there is no doubt.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

I still think LeBron holds that honor... for now.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

And you take things too personal. I was being sarcastic. My point was saying that I don't think any message was sent to the rest of the league. Especially Boston and Cleveland who know they are extremely better than Knicks on both side of the court. For crying out loud, the Knicks were still in the game. The question is can he do that against Boston or Cleveland? I highly doubt it. So what message did Kobe send to the elite teams?

Remember, we all post here to voice our opinion whether we agree or not. If we all agreed on things how fun would posting be.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> And just as an aside: I really don't know the answer to this, but did any of those best playoff games come without Shaq?
> 
> It actually doesn't matter, but I'm genuinely curious. Cause I know for sure Shaq was still on the team at that time.


Game 4 '99-'00 Finals. It wasn't the whole game, but certainly when it mattered. Kobe flat out took his play to another level in the postseason last year. Contrary to what many suggest, he wasn't awful against Boston as he was against Detroit in '04. For those six games, Boston put up one of the better defensive performances anybody has seen. But I suppose you were talking about scoring outbursts in high-stake games. Kobe is chastized for scoring a lot of points at a high percentage, so I'm not sure he would be celebrated for doing such, regardless of the outcome. I'm not really seeing anywhere in this thread where a Lakers fan even hinted at Kobe eclipsing Jordan with this performance. As a matter of fact, it never seems this way. A Laker fan may allude to a Jordan milestone that Kobe passed, but there is rarely even the slightest implication that Kobe is outright better. I think many of you purposely read it as such. And even if there were suggestions that Kobe was better, the post that you replied to(Basel's) had absolutely no such mention. There was no point in bringing it up.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Jorbroni said:


> And you take things too personal. I was being sarcastic. My point was saying that I don't think any message was sent to the rest of the league. Especially Boston and Cleveland who know they are extremely better than Knicks on both side of the court. For crying out loud, the Knicks were still in the game. The question is can he do that against Boston or Cleveland? I highly doubt it. So what message did Kobe send to the elite teams?
> 
> Remember, we all post here to voice our opinion whether we agree or not. If we all agreed on things how fun would posting be.


READ. We said team and fan morale. Not a statement to Cleveland and Boston. And disagreeing is fine, as long as it remains logical. I have pissed patterns in the snow more coherent than some of the ramblings on this forum.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> And you take things too personal. I was being sarcastic. My point was saying that I don't think any message was sent to the rest of the league. Especially Boston and Cleveland who know they are extremely better than Knicks on both side of the court. For crying out loud, the Knicks were still in the game. The question is can he do that against Boston or Cleveland? I highly doubt it. So what message did Kobe send to the elite teams?
> 
> Remember, we all post here to voice our opinion whether we agree or not. If we all agreed on things how fun would posting be.


And yet Boston lost to New York earlier this season; the Lakers know they are better than the Knicks on both sides of the court as well. And don't let the final score fool you - the Knicks were never going to win this game. At the half, the Lakers led by 9 points, and although the Knicks did get it down to two EARLY in the 3rd quarter, the Lakers raised the lead to 20 points in the 4th quarter before allowing an 11-0 run to end the game after Kobe had gone out.

And can he do that against Boston or Cleveland? He probably COULD, but not for an entire series. Which is why I'm saying that people that think this will be the Lakers style the rest of the way without Bynum are wrong. It was ONE game and yet, somehow, there are people putting a negative spin on it.

And the message was simply (and directed to everyone in the league, not just Boston/Cleveland): don't count the Lakers out because of Bynum's injury. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I consider Kobe the best player in the game by a decent margin. However that being said, I can admit that the Knicks are the worse defensive team by default based on their strategy. Their coach doesn't implement stops, he believes in out scoring the other team, run the ball up, and make a bucket as quick as possible. Essentially the Knicks now play the try and out shoot them game. That being said Kobe put on a clinic @ MSG, and shot the Knicks down in a 61 point game blaze of glory.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

23AJ said:


> I consider Kobe the best player in the game by a decent margin. However that being said, I can admit that the Knicks are the worse defensive team by default based on their strategy. Their coach doesn't implement stops, he believes in out scoring the other team, run the ball up, and make a bucket as quick as possible. Essentially the Knicks now play the try and out shoot them game. That being said Kobe put on a clinic @ MSG, and shot the Knicks down in a 61 point game blaze of glory.


That's an insult to the Golden State Warriors. They're the kings of not playing defense. New York might come in at #2, though.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> READ. We said team and fan morale. Not a statement to Cleveland and Boston. And disagreeing is fine, as long as it remains logical. I have pissed patterns in the snow more coherent than some of the ramblings on this forum.


Original post I responded to by Basel:



Basel said:


> What the ****? Where in this thread has ANY Lakers fan stated that they are more concerned with the personal accolades than the Championship? And what's with everyone assuming that what Kobe did last night means that's how he'll continue to play. It was ONE game and given the news that had happened earlier that day, *it was basically Kobe sending a message to his team (and everyone else in the league) that the loss of Bynum, by no means, means that their season is over.*
> 
> And yes, look at what the rest of the team did. Pau Gasol had 31 points, 14 rebounds and 5 assists; Odom grabbed 14 rebounds, dished out 4 assists and played great defense all game. Trevor Ariza came off the bench and scored 13 points and pulled down 8 boards. It's not like everyone just disappeared while Kobe went off. They were still involved in the game in one way or another.
> 
> And don't underestimate how much Kobe has left in the tank; you'd be surprised.



So what League does Boston and Cleveland play for???


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Jorbroni said:


> Original post I responded to by Basel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess we'll see Thursday.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Basel said:


> That's an insult to the Golden State Warriors. They're the kings of not playing defense. New York might come in at #2, though.


LOL you might have a case there.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

Basel said:


> And yet Boston lost to New York earlier this season; the Lakers know they are better than the Knicks on both sides of the court as well. And don't let the final score fool you - the Knicks were never going to win this game. At the half, the Lakers led by 9 points, and although the Knicks did get it down to two EARLY in the 3rd quarter, the Lakers raised the lead to 20 points in the 4th quarter before allowing an 11-0 run to end the game after Kobe had gone out.
> 
> And can he do that against Boston or Cleveland? He probably COULD, but not for an entire series. Which is why I'm saying that people that think this will be the Lakers style the rest of the way without Bynum are wrong. It was ONE game and yet, somehow, there are people putting a negative spin on it.
> 
> And the message was simply (and directed to everyone in the league, not just Boston/Cleveland): don't count the Lakers out because of Bynum's injury. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.



Nobody is counting out the Lakers. They will make it to the finals. But lets be realistic, they chances of beating Boston or Cleveland without Bynum is very slim, especially if they don't have HCA. And this was said by many Laker fans. Also, their defense is still shady. So what is the difference from this current squad and the one from last year?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

A little bit of over kill on NBA tv showing the game today though. This is at least the second time I've seen NBA TV showing it, and that's after I saw the game when it really happened. Oh well good for Kobe he's getting all that pub the best player in the game should get!!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> Nobody is counting out the Lakers. They will make it to the finals. But lets be realistic, they chances of beating Boston or Cleveland without Bynum is very slim, especially if they don't have HCA. And this was said by many Laker fans. Also, their defense is still shady. *So what is the difference from this current squad and the one from last year?*


1) Trevor Ariza.

2) Better defense (though it still needs A LOT of work).

3) More experience.

To name a few things.

And we still don't know whether or not Bynum will be back; if he is able to get back before the Playoffs, that changes everything.


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

I won't debate who's the best because its quite obvious , but Lebron had this to say about Kobe


> "I just go out and play my game. I'm not a video game where you can expect me to go out there and score 60 or 70. I play the game and I'm not about individual accolades. Kobe Bryant's performance was unbelievable, I watched every last second of it and he won the game. But it's not about individuals in this league, it's about the basketball game. I'm not trying to out-do Kobe or anybody on their team. I'm just trying to win the game."


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Basel said:


> 1) Trevor Ariza.


fixed


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

So their defense isn't better than last year's and they don't have more experience?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Basel said:


> So their defense isn't better than last year's?


Not with ***** Galore anchoring it, it isn't.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

The D is better than last season due to Ariza lone, just not the interior, without Bynum. So unless by some miracle Powell turns into Horace Grant, it's going to stay that way.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Basel said:


> EDIT.


u need to edit yourself


----------



## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Hope it's not already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPin43rV6vg


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

The Krakken said:


> Not to refute your points Basel, but MJ had many more of those type games. I deliberately left out all his *40-50* pt playoff performances. The year he scored 63 against boston, he averaged about 50 per game in that series. Before his big night against phoenix, he was already tearing them a new one and had had several other 40 point games.
> 
> And that was back during a time, where you could grab, hold, foul, etc. Some of those bumps last night, weren't even fouls on MJ in the playoffs. In that regard, the two are not comparable.


i don't know why you think it was harder to score back then. teams scored more points, generally more efficiently, playing at a faster pace.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

I'm in class, so I don't have the time to watch that whole video...but watching the first minute and a half or so and what I noticed is that Jordan wasn't double teamed once, and he was guarded by John Starks.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> I'm in class, so I don't have the time to watch that whole video...but watching the first minute and a half or so and what I noticed is that Jordan wasn't double teamed once, and he was guarded by John Starks.


Point being?


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

> LeBron Won't Try To Out-Do Kobe At MSG
> 
> Feb 04, 2009 9:45 AM EST
> The Cavaliers will face the Knicks at Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night, but LeBron James says that he won't try to out-do Kobe Bryant's 61-point performance.
> ...


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/...l-not-try-to-out-do-Kobe-at-Ga?urn=nba,138799


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

^^^ That was already posted. I don't think LeBron will score 60+ or even 50+ tonight, but I'm sure he's going to leave MSG tonight with the people talking about his performance.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Basel said:


> So their defense isn't better than last year's and they don't have more experience?


Lakers only give up 2 points per game less, and actually give up a higher FG% than last year (and that was with Bynum). Yes they have more experience, but it's not as if the team consisted of a bunch of players that never played in the playoffs before.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

No Turiaf, either. Don't know exactly how Laker fans feel about him. ??


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Prolific Scorer said:


> No Turiaf, either. Don't know exactly how Laker fans feel about him. ??


Didn't you know? Josh Powell is 10 times better than Turiaf.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I miss Turiaf on the team and wish we still had him; no, Powell is not 10x better - not sure who said that or why, but that's just a false statement. That's a knock on Powell, either. I think that he'll play a big role for us with Bynum out. He'll be getting more minutes and he's a decent defender and he's always going for rebounds, has a consistent mid-range jumper, and just hustles every time he's on the floor.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

Hibachi! said:


> Didn't you know? Josh Powell is 10 times better than Turiaf.


Yeah, I hear ya.

But luckily it looks like LA will either get matched up with Dallas or Utah, none of which have much of an interior presence defensively.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

The Krakken said:


> Is that what pulling a few examples out of the hat is....laying the hammer down? What does that make this? An Atom Bomb?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great post.

I also agree, Basel is not a cheerleader at all. He is a Laker fan who provides good reasoning and debate behind his logic. Normally he is mature, but in this thread he broke the rules of the forum and called Jabroni an idiot. I read Jabroni's post, and the fact that Bryant failed to lead, heck, even really COMPETE in the Finals vs Boston is relevant when someone tries to say Byrant is going to surprise anyone. 

Anyway, i believe your post is mainly directed to the usual BBF stooge cheerleaders.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

He wasn't calling me a cheerleader to begin with; he was calling BH the cheerleader, which he is not.

And yes, I did break the rules by calling him an idiot ( I'll edit it and give myself a warning :biggrin: ) but I guess I didn't catch the sarcasm; I figured it was just another blind hater.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

And about the surprising anybody...I was referring to his endurance.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

Bryant can score 1000000 points, everyone knows he is one of the best scorers in history. the point is I would like to see him do it in the playoffs vs good teams, not against D'Antoni's NO DEFENSE knicks and raptors type of thing.

i don't doubt for one second that the NBA's best of the best could put up huge scoring numbers vs crappy teams if they went into ball hog mode. but guy's like Wade and LeBron don't do that. Bryant really has no excuse, he has a very talented team now, why is he ballhogging vs a crappy knicks team?


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

But that was only one game! Right after an injury to one of the team's (if not the most behind #24) most important pieces!

I think Kobe's done a great job for the most part this season in having the Mamba take a backseat to getting the rest of the team involved.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

He was not ballhogging - holy ****.

And I already posted some of his performances against GOOD teams in the Playoffs, but apparently, that just went ignored.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

does that mean that every time jordan scored big with the champion bulls, or bird with the celts, they were ball-hogging? i mean, they had good teammates.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

For the record I'm watching the Laker game right now and they had a poll on what the most impressive performance at MSG was between Reggies 8 points in 8 seconds, MJ's 55 , and Kobe 61. MJ is up by almost 50%, and this is a Laker fan poll no less.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

MJ's _was_ more impressive.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

FWIW, Lebron on his way to a 50pt triple double against the knicks.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Wow Lebron, your such a douche it's ridiculous.

On a serious note though, Lebron's beatin' with a 40/8/10 game with ten minutes left in the 4th quarter.

Poor Knicks.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

VanillaPrice said:


> Wow Lebron, your such a douche it's ridiculous.
> 
> On a serious note though, Lebron's beatin' with a 40/8/10 game with ten minutes left in the 4th quarter.
> 
> Poor Knicks.



52/9/11 on a bad leg!!!!!!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

On a bad leg? Sure didn't look it.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Jorbroni said:


> 52/9/11 on a bad leg!!!!!!


He got the last rebound.


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## Jorbroni (Nov 24, 2004)

Have you been watching the 4th?? Something is wrong with his right leg I think.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

ChrisRichards said:


> Bryant can score 1000000 points, everyone knows he is one of the best scorers in history. the point is I would like to see him do it in the playoffs vs good teams, not against D'Antoni's NO DEFENSE knicks and raptors type of thing.
> 
> i don't doubt for one second that the NBA's best of the best could put up huge scoring numbers vs crappy teams if they went into ball hog mode. but guy's like Wade and LeBron don't do that. Bryant really has no excuse, he has a very talented team now, why is he ballhogging vs a crappy knicks team?


Now it just sounds like you're hating. He wasn't ball-hogging. Besides, he shot over 50% from the field, why would you want him to stop shooting anyways? Plus, like Basel pointed out, he has had good games in crucial times against good teams.


----------



## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

LBJ with the Trip Doub.

MSG gets two great performances back to back by the two best players in the league while the Knicks put up a valiant effort in keeping the games close.
Pretty ridiculous.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Jorbroni said:


> Have you been watching the 4th?? Something is wrong with his right leg I think.


That's actually the one quarter I didn't get to watch. My link went down.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

Its always interesting to find the disparity in opinions from your casual NBA fans to those coming straight from the horses mouth (professional basketball players/coaches). I was watching NBATV just a moment ago and Eric Snow,Kenny Smith and Alonzo Mourning (along with the other analyst, dont know his name) all picked Kobe as the better player than Lebron. Kobe's killer instinct is that _one_ intangible thing that always seems to stand out to them. (Although Zo didnt mention Wade, I think Wade is right there with Kobe. D-Wade is easily one of the best closers in the game).



Check what Chris had to say the other night "We were caught up with what Kobe was doing, did not stick to our gameplan, and it got us flustered,". Its fascinating how he can crush an opponent by simply going on a scoring binge. That's pretty remarkable. The fact that he can get in this unconcious rhythm and break the opponent's defensive scheme and spirit, speaks volume of how great of a scorer Kobe is.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Funny how media keeps blowin this "MAdison Square Garden historical games" **** in my face...

I mean, my question is why are they so desperate? Seriously?

These Knicks are below 50%, they're not even getting to playoffs, let alone being leagues best defensive team and title contenders, and now these two guys molest them and it's a historical feat?


Ridiculous. Stat padding against these sub par teams, my lawwd...


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

DNKO said:


> Funny how media keeps blowin this "MAdison Square Garden historical games" **** in my face...
> 
> I mean, my question is why are they so desperate? Seriously?
> 
> ...


And you call yourself old school....
MSG is the only special arena left in basketball. Like Kobe said, it's the last place that still feels alive. And like Lebron said, the way they do the lighting and everything, it's like a stage. And you've got all the celebs there. MSG is always going to important. No matter how ****ty the Knicks are.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Affirmative Action said:


> Its always interesting to find the disparity in opinions from your casual NBA fans to those coming straight from the horses mouth (professional basketball players/coaches). I was watching NBATV just a moment ago and Eric Snow,Kenny Smith and Alonzo Mourning (along with the other analyst, dont know his name) all picked Kobe as the better player than Lebron. Kobe's killer instinct is that _one_ intangible thing that always seems to stand out to them. (Although Zo didnt mention Wade, I think Wade is right there with Kobe. D-Wade is easily one of the best closers in the game).
> 
> 
> 
> Check what Chris had to say the other night "We were caught up with what Kobe was doing, did not stick to our gameplan, and it got us flustered,". Its fascinating how he can crush an opponent by simply going on a scoring binge. That's pretty remarkable. The fact that he can get in this unconcious rhythm and break the opponent's defensive scheme and spirit, speaks volume of how great of a scorer Kobe is.


I know those guys are the ones that I go to when I want substantive basketball analysis and opinions that make sense. It's too bad Charles Barkley is gone. His opinion would really put the icing on the cake, because it always makes sense. After all, he *played *basketball.


----------



## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Spare my with those stories, LeBron James PR Futurixsten...

Knicks suck. Badly. Jordan scored 55 on them and it WAS significant because;

- he just came back from few days of not playing NBA basketball
- he had a long rivlary with the Knicks
- Knicks were notorious for playing D - especially on Bulls
- Knicks were title conteders and top NBA team

It just so happens that these punies have the same jerseys and play in the same arena.

They suck as a team, they suck as a franchise, they don't mean nothing to nobody, they will probably lose more in the future and how does a fact that 2 players scored 100 points on them in 2 days sound?

C'mon...Jordan scored his 60 games against Pistons, who had 52-30 record and played slightly better D then any of the teams today. He scored it against Shaq and Orlando, against 57-25 Hawks and against decent 42-40 Cavs.

And, sorry I forgot, against 86 Celtics. 

Kobe done his work against Raptors (27-55), the sorry *** D'Antoni Knicks, the Blazers (32-50) and the Grizzlies (22-60). The only good team he had 60 against was the Mavs (60-22).

And I'm not even addressing James.

He's famous for putting up numbers against teams like Oklahoma City Hopstochers and Alabama Conrbread Harvesters but as soon as some decent defensive threat is on the opposing side we see his swag level drop severely and his shooting percentage match his season scoring average.

And MJ at least had 3-4 steals in his high scoring games, 2-3 blocks, 10 or more rebounds an all around it showed that he actually done everything he could on a court to make up for his teammates slack.

These two went in on one of the leagues weakest and lamest defense.

Wow. Remarkable.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Lebron James and Kobe Bryant are all time greats.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

DKNO, I can't help you if you don't understand what it means to play well at MSG. It's the same as the old Yankee Stadium. It's a mecca. The largest basketball market in the entire world is paying attention to you. It's bigger than the Knicks. It's New York, it's the basketball culture, it's the history--all these things that a true old school head would understand. But all you know is stats. You don't know the soul of the game apparently. Listen to how Kobe and Lebron and others talk about playing at MSG. Maybe you aren't old enough to remember Jordan talking about when he was playing in the Garden, even when the Celtics started sucking. They are just special places. And with the Garden gone, MSG is THE basketball mecca. It's a space with it's own energy, and history, and culture. Have you ever walked into a room, like an old room, where people have lived and died in it--the energy in it is totally diffrent from a brand new place. 

MSG is a magical place. It ILLICITS these performances from the great ones. It's not even about the Knicks.

All your points about the Knicks and Jordan and all of these stats...you just don't get it.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

DNKO said:


> Spare my with those stories, LeBron James PR Futurixsten...
> 
> Knicks suck. Badly. Jordan scored 55 on them and it WAS significant because;
> 
> ...


No one was talking about Jordan, and no one said they were more impressive then Jordan. You're not arguing with anyone except the media on that front.

Also, everyone knows the Knicks aren't great, but honestly, if that's what was making them win, why would you go away from that? Should Kobe say to himself, "I shouldn't have a great night so I can prove I can do it against better teams, and instead of keep shooting because I'm really hot, I'll pass it?" No, you do what makes you win. They weren't just stat-padding, they were winning the games.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Affirmative Action said:


> Its always interesting to find the disparity in opinions from your casual NBA fans to those coming straight from the horses mouth (professional basketball players/coaches). I was watching NBATV just a moment ago and Eric Snow,Kenny Smith and Alonzo Mourning (along with the other analyst, dont know his name) all picked Kobe as the better player than Lebron. Kobe's killer instinct is that _one_ intangible thing that always seems to stand out to them. (Although Zo didnt mention Wade, I think Wade is right there with Kobe. D-Wade is easily one of the best closers in the game).


Please don't try and spin this in favor of your own opinion that you like Kobe and Wade more then LeBron.

I think Kobe himself said LeBron was the MVP, and I'm sure numerous players have said the same thing about LeBron. They're both just right there (along with Wade), and arguing who's better is a pointless argument about semantics.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Keep in mind that the Cavs were running a 7 man rotation last night, so a lot more was necessarily put on Lebron's shoulders. We had like no shooting guards and had to slot Wally in there.

Delonte West is still injured, Sasha Pavlovic was out with the flu, and Tarence Kinsey was injured as well. Darnell Jackson was also out with the flu. We just signed a D-league player to fill out our backcourt. 

Kobe had to take more shots because his team was shorthanded. Lebron did the same last night.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lebron's performance was better. Both were great.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

DNKO said:


> Spare my with those stories, LeBron James PR Futurixsten...
> 
> Knicks suck. Badly. Jordan scored 55 on them and it WAS significant because;
> 
> ...


here's what people fail to realize. as great as the pistons were back in the day, the '87 pistons team he scored 61 on actually gave up more PPG than THESE KNICKS. it was a different league, different pace. 

as a matter of fact, kobe's 55+ games have come against teams giving up an average of 100 ppg, jordan's against teams giving up an average of 105 ppg. 

quit *****ing about 2 great players, who would have been great in any era. omg, kobe's not michael jordan! get over it.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> Lebron's performance was better. Both were great.


Yep thats one 50 point triple-double, and another near 50 point triple-double at MSG in back to back seasons. Kobe is the best scorer in the league, LeBron is the best player. I'm fans of both but at this point LeBron > Kobe.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Oh just shut yall trap. None of them will win any rings this year, or next one. 

And I'm 1000% on to watch Celtics games against these. Let me see how can they play against a real team.

I mean don't get me wrong, I am impressed when someone drops 50 points on San Diego Silver Surfers but I also forget about that game after the last commercial brake during the live broadcast...

So I'm tuned in, see if I can catch some NBA greatness...


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

DNKO said:


> Oh just shut yall trap. None of them will win any rings this year, or next one.
> 
> And I'm 1000% on to watch Celtics games against these. Let me see how can they play against a real team.
> 
> ...


What in god's name are you trying to say in this post, man?


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

Brandname said:


> What in god's name are you trying to say in this post, man?


He was hittin the bong with Phelps


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

SamTheMan67 said:


> He was hittin the bong with Phelps


:laugh:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Now what's going to be the excuse when Perkins drops 50/15/11 and 5? eace:


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

Brandname said:


> I know those guys are the ones that I go to when I want substantive basketball analysis and opinions that make sense. It's too bad Charles Barkley is gone. His opinion would really put the icing on the cake, because it always makes sense. After all, he *played *basketball.


Quit repulsing those players, Im willing to assume that they are far more knowledgeable than anyone in this board. Charles was not even there, and barkley is also a Lebron guy, so what does that say? And btw, what's your credentials? 




Ras said:


> Please don't try and spin this in favor of your own opinion that you like Kobe and Wade more then LeBron.
> 
> I think Kobe himself said LeBron was the MVP, and I'm sure numerous players have said the same thing about LeBron. They're both just right there (along with Wade), and arguing who's better is a pointless argument about semantics.


I dont need to spin anything in my favor. Shoot the sender not the messenger. An MVP award does not equate as the Best Player. Get that through your head.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

DNKO takes hating to an entirely new level.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

rayz789 said:


> Yay Kobe got 61 points vs a no good knicks team. The bandwagon Lakers fans won't put up stats on that game but i will. Kobe not only got 61 points but got 0 REBOUNDS AND 3 ASSIST!!! And The Lakers were already up big like 3 or 2 minutes to go and phil still let Kobe in the game. Yea i bet Kobe told Phil ( Please keep putting me in the game. I want to be selfish and make history)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol at this post. Well at least Lebron got his stats in a close game.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Affirmative Action said:


> I dont need to spin anything in my favor. Shoot the sender not the messenger.


It wasn't what they said, it was what you said. You said they said Kobe was the best because he has that closing ability, and that's what makes him better then LeBron. Then you said, you'd consider Wade right up there with Kobe because he's one of the best closers too, which would imply you're putting both Wade and Kobe above LeBron without actually saying it. That's what I meant by trying to spin it in your favor of not liking LeBron. They didn't mention Wade at all.



> An MVP award does not equate as the Best Player. Get that through your head.


When did I say otherwise? My point was that if Kobe, and others, feel LeBron is MVP (and best player [not Kobe, but analysts and former players]), they're obviously on the same tier. You can't really prove one is undoubtedly better then the other. A bunch of people say LeBron, a bunch of people say Kobe, a bunch of people say Wade. It seems liked flawed logic to just point to a few that say Kobe and say, "look, I'm right."


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

Ras said:


> It wasn't what they said, it was what you said. You said they said Kobe was the best because he has that closing ability, and that's what makes him better then LeBron. Then you said, you'd consider Wade right up there with Kobe because he's one of the best closers too, which would imply you're putting both Wade and Kobe above LeBron without actually saying it. That's what I meant by trying to spin it in your favor of not liking LeBron. They didn't mention Wade at all.
> 
> 
> 
> When did I say otherwise? My point was that if Kobe, and others, feel LeBron is MVP (and best player [not Kobe, but analysts and former players]), they're obviously on the same tier. You can't really prove one is undoubtedly better then the other. A bunch of people say LeBron, a bunch of people say Kobe, a bunch of people say Wade. It seems liked flawed logic to just point to a few that say Kobe and say, "look, I'm right."


Dont be over analytical. It causes paranoia and it restricts simple reasoning to take place about common issues. Just apply the same type of reasoning you said earlier and call it a day. Mind you, what I said are also observed by a good portion of Coaches, GM's and players. As a matter of fact Lebron admitted this for everyone to grasp.


Its not a knock on his mentality. He is 23. Maturation will take place. But at the moment, Kobe and Wade _are there_, while Lebron _is getting there_. Dont be so hasty about his _undisputed_ best player status. He'll eventually reach that pinnacle.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Affirmative Action said:


> Dont be over analytical. It causes paranoia and it restricts simple reasoning to take place about common issues. Just apply the same type of reasoning you said earlier and call it a day. Mind you, what I said are also observed by a good portion of Coaches, GM's and players. As a matter of fact Lebron admitted this for everyone to grasp.
> 
> 
> Its not a knock on his mentality. He is 23. Maturation will take place. But at the moment, Kobe and Wade _are there_, while Lebron _is getting there_. Dont be so hasty about his _undisputed_ best player status. He'll eventually reach that pinnacle.


I didn't say he was the undisputed best player. In fact I said the opposite, I said they're all even, and saying one is the undisputed best is a senseless argument.

Also, how can you tell me I'm being over analytical when you reply saying that Wade and Kobe are there and LeBron isn't? That was exactly my point, that you were implying that Wade and Kobe were better. Like I said, I'm sure a lot think Kobe is the best, a lot think Wade is, and a lot think LeBron (coaches, players, GMs alike). They're all on the same plane, and to argue one (or in your case, two) is/are better then the other is a pointless argument because they're just too close to differentiate.

Also, I find it strange again that you throw Wade's name in there on Kobe's level when your original argument was that Kobe was the best because all those players said so. I pointed that out, you said I was being over-analytical, and then again say Wade and Kobe are better. Those players never mentioned Wade.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

DNKO said:


> Spare my with those stories, LeBron James PR Futurixsten...
> 
> Knicks suck. Badly. Jordan scored 55 on them and it WAS significant because;
> 
> ...


I agree that these performances against the Knicks don't mean much. I won't fault LeBron and Kobe for beating up on crappy teams. People would criticize them if they weren't giving them 100%. And no one is saying that LeBron and Kobe are better than MJ but they are certainly providing the claim for the best two players today. The only way for them to prove that they are better is to start winning championship rings; not scoring outburts like this.


----------



## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Announcement;

1. I am posting this video because it's on topic
2. No agenda
3. Only further proving my point of desperate NBA

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...erisk-on-LeBron-s-MSG-triple-d?urn=nba,139191

SMH....this is just ridiculous


----------



## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Basel said:


> DNKO takes hating to an entirely new level.


True that; Anyway, I don't understand why people are so afraid of new players getting better and knocking older players off their pedastals, I mean, I know you obiovusly don't like the current players in the league but Lebron could average 50/15/15 for the rest of the year and you would still nit-pick things that he did wrong.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Already beat you to that - what are the rules on that, by the way? On another forum I read, somebody said that the NBA has taken back a rebound from a player before after realizing it shouldn't have been credited to him. I think I read that it was Bob Sura.


----------



## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Knocking who from pedestal? Guy hasn't won **** yet and I don't see him winning it anytime soon?

What pedestal? 

Harold Miner's?

And the way he was running to get that board like his life depended on it, I mean, c'mon, stat padding against wack teams at its finest...


----------



## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Basel said:


> Already beat you to that - what are the rules on that, by the way? On another forum I read, somebody said that the NBA has taken back a rebound from a player before after realizing it shouldn't have been credited to him. I think I read that it was Bob Sura.



Then riddle me why in the hell did the Yahoo gamecast only had him listed with 9 when the game ended?


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I don't know - their boxscore had him listed with 10.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Yeah - now, but not after the game yesterday.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

what difference does it make if he had 9 or 10 rebounds? did he have any less a great game if it was 9?


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

The difference is one qualifies as a triple double, the other does not. Considering its a 34 year old record, im going out on a limb and say thats a pretty big deal.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

DNKO said:


> Yeah - now, but not after the game yesterday.


No, yesterday after the game was over, the boxscore (not gamecast) had him listed as 10.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

DNKO said:


> Knocking who from pedestal? Guy hasn't won **** yet and I don't see him winning it anytime soon?
> 
> And the way he was running to get that board like his life depended on it, I mean, c'mon, stat padding against wack teams at its finest...


This guy speaks the truth. His manner of expressing himself may agitate others but how can you argue with him? Lebron has not achieved anything relevant at this point other than jaw dropping numbers. And to others, this simply isnt enough as the end all, be all reasoning, that defines a players career.


Kobe and Wade are both having spectacular statistical seasons. Both have hardwares to prove it. Im just not ready to put Lebron above those two for the simple fact that they can interchange and take turns on that best player title.


----------



## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

DNKO said:


> Knocking who from pedestal? Guy hasn't won **** yet and I don't see him winning it anytime soon?
> 
> What pedestal?
> 
> ...


Hmmm, the guy in your avatar won absolutly nothing, but you seem to like him alot. The fact of the matter is Lebron already is making his mark on the league, and if he doesn't improve anymore (Which is extremly unlikely) he still would have posted a ridiculous prime for his career.

And he does have a scroing title, two All-Star game MVP's, has posted insane numbers in his first few years in the leauge, and led his team to the Finals by himself.

Pretty solid resume for a 24 year old if you ask me.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

2 All Star MVP's. Lol. I think Lebron's game worn Jersey has much more value than those.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Ok sweet, ignore the rest of my post and poke fun at a feat that only a handful of players have ever done.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

DNKO said:


> Announcement;
> 
> 1. I am posting this video because it's on topic
> 2. No agenda
> ...


Nooooo!!!! 

Not the 9th rebound! Please don't take it away!


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Affirmative Action said:


> This guy speaks the truth. His manner of expressing himself may agitate others but how can you argue with him? Lebron has not achieved anything relevant at this point other than jaw dropping numbers. And to others, this simply isnt enough as the end all, be all reasoning, that defines a players career.
> 
> 
> Kobe and Wade are both having spectacular statistical seasons. Both have hardwares to prove it. Im just not ready to put Lebron above those two for the simple fact that they can interchange and take turns on that best player title.


people don't seem to realize that jordan was at the same point in his career until he won in '91, yet there were plenty anointing him as the best player, an all-time great, yada yada. and there were those tearing him down, saying he hasn't won anything, is just a stat guy, not a winner like magic or bird, etc. you can either recognize, or you can put your head in the sand and conjure up reasons to disparage.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Affirmative Action said:


> Quit repulsing those players, Im willing to assume that they are far more knowledgeable than anyone in this board. Charles was not even there, and barkley is also a Lebron guy, so what does that say? And btw, what's your credentials?


1) I have no doubt that they know how to play basketball better than I do. But their analysis sucks. I'm sorry to say, but they are just miserable analysts. Kenny Smith insinuated that Jose Calderon is just a scrub the other day. The fact that they played basketball doesn't mean that they can analyze the game better than someone who hasn't.

2) That's the first time I have ever heard someone call Barkley a Lebron guy. lol

3) Credentials don't mean anything. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be.


----------



## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

kflo said:


> people don't seem to realize that jordan was at the same point in his career until he won in '91, yet there were plenty anointing him as the best player, an all-time great, yada yada. and there were those tearing him down, saying he hasn't won anything, is just a stat guy, not a winner like magic or bird, etc. you can either recognize, or you can put your head in the sand and conjure up reasons to disparage.


Jordan transcends the game like no other. Anyone knows he is that one exception to a rule. How someone can even put a guy like Lebron on top when there are a couple of players playing at a level similar to his, is unbecoming of any basketball fan. Your implication to clarify or fix the boundaries or extent of Jordan's legacy with a "_yada, Yada_" measures your limited understanding of Jordan's certitude impact in the game.


So tell me, do you really believe that Lebron is the undisputed best player in the game right now?


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

Brandname said:


> 1) I have no doubt that they know how to play basketball better than I do. But their analysis sucks. I'm sorry to say, but they are just miserable analysts. Kenny Smith insinuated that Jose Calderon is just a scrub the other day. The fact that they played basketball doesn't mean that they can analyze the game better than someone who hasn't.
> 
> 2) That's the first time I have ever heard someone call Barkley a Lebron guy. lol
> 
> 3) Credentials don't mean anything. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be.


1. Its unjust criticism to point a specific statement to prove a person wrong. Everyone is capable of doing this, even the absolute best in their respective field. Furthermore, its a consensus and popular opinion among his peers.

2. He criticized Lebron for speaking to the media about the 2010 FA. Other than that he has been pretty receptive of Lebron.

3. Credentials doesnt mean anything? Where do you live? Baton Rouge, LA?


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Brandname said:


> Nooooo!!!!
> 
> Not the 9th rebound! Please don't take it away!


Why you take your heart shaped Cavs glasses, and take two steps back from the monitor, you could understand that I'm not giving a eff about his 9th, 10th or 2983582702th rebound.

Thing is the league is going to such lenghts that they're literally awarding him a triple double to hype up the situation before All Star and before 2nd half of the season.

Also, if you still have your <3 shaped Cavs glasses off, you could understand that I don't care about triple doubles against wrecked teams. 

I've watched couple of "stronger" games this season, Orlando, Lakers, Celtics, Cavs...

Didn't see anything breathtaking in any of those when Cavs were playing

Of course, you probably saw the nirvana of your NBA life. And of course, the fact that I'm not impressed makes me a hater. Sure. 

Say, how many Bulls game you've watched this season? What? Not more than 20? So you don't have nothing to say about Rose except few replays and copy pasted stats from some website?

Oh so you hate on Derrick Rose? Hater. 

*I hope you do get the sarcasm*

As I've said, I watched the replay of that game against the Knicks, I swear, from the looks of the "highlights", it had to be the dullest 50+ game in recent NBA history.

Flame on. eace:


PS Kobe - sorry, no stat padding tonight for you. This team actually plays basketball.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Affirmative Action said:


> Jordan transcends the game like no other. Anyone knows he is that one exception to a rule. How someone can even put a guy like Lebron on top when there are a couple of players playing at a level similar to his, is unbecoming of any basketball fan. Your implication to clarify or fix the boundaries or extent of Jordan's legacy with a "_yada, Yada_" measures your limited understanding of Jordan's certitude impact in the game.
> 
> 
> So tell me, do you really believe that Lebron is the undisputed best player in the game right now?





DKNO said:


> Why you take your heart shaped Cavs glasses, and take two steps back from the monitor, you could understand that I'm not giving a eff about his 9th, 10th or 2983582702th rebound.
> 
> Thing is the league is going to such lenghts that they're literally awarding him a triple double to hype up the situation before All Star and before 2nd half of the season.
> 
> ...


Do you both reaize you're putting words in other people's mouths? No one said LeBron is the best, let alone the undisputed best. Why are you trying to defend the fact that he isn't when no one has said otherwise? No one said that LeBron's and Kobe's game was against good teams either, like you seem to imply. Everyone realizes it was against a crappy Knicks team. They're impressive games yet, but no one claimed it was the "the nirvana of your NBA life," except you, and yet you're using that as an argument against people. That's not exactly fair. Also, DKNO, why are you hating on LeBron and his fans for something the media has done? LeBron didn't do the score sheet, and neither did anyone on this site. Hate the media, not anyone else.

Also, a 61 point game and a 50 point near triple double is impressive no matter who it's against. People realize it was the Knicks, but it's still worth mentioning because not just anyone could do it.

Affirmative Action, we had a discussion going a few pages back too, and you seemed to ignore what I had said.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

LOL. I laugh at those who thinks Kobe is not the best in the game. Huge win on Boston, 5 straight road wins and owner of the best road record in the league.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Affirmative Action said:


> LOL. I laugh at those who thinks Kobe is not the best in the game. Huge win on Boston, 5 straight road wins and owner of the best road record in the league.


Players don't win, teams do. If someone like Wade had that kind of supporting cast, I'm sure they'd be one of the best in the league too.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Affirmative Action said:


> LOL. I laugh at those who thinks Kobe is not the best in the game. Huge win on Boston, 5 straight road wins and owner of the best road record in the league.


Kobe hit some huge clutch shots down the stretch but then almost blew it in OT with some pretty poor decision making. Not the best example...


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

_Players_ dont win? Thats in plural form. 


I think Wade is a better fit for this Lakers. He has a better shot selection than Kobe. Im not going to doubt that for a minute given the opportunity, Wade can lead them in the Finals.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

Drewbs said:


> Kobe hit some huge clutch shots down the stretch but then almost blew it in OT with some pretty poor decision making. Not the best example...


Everyone blew huge shots in OT. Pierce, Allen and Kobe all had their fair share of offensive lapses. It was an intense game.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Affirmative Action said:


> _Players_ dont win? Thats in plural form.
> 
> 
> I think Wade is a better fit for this Lakers. He has a better shot selection than Kobe. Im not going to doubt that for a minute given the opportunity, Wade can lead them in the Finals.


Your all over the place heh, I thought you were saying Kobe is the undisputed best in the league because of how successful the Lakers team is. 

Then you randomly interject a comment about Wade being a better fit for the Lakers than Kobe (which is odd, considering the Lakers have the best record in the NBA right now...how much better can you get)


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

I dont remember saying Kobe is the lone undisputed best player in the league. I always had Wade right next to him young fella. I did had problems with other people crowning Lebron as that.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Affirmative Action said:


> LOL. I laugh at those who thinks Kobe is not the best in the game. Huge win on Boston, 5 straight road wins and owner of the best road record in the league.


im a laker fan, but sorry.. i don't see how this proves he's the best player in the game. especially considering that he chucked/forced a lot of shots tonight.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Affirmative Action said:


> I dont remember saying Kobe is the lone undisputed best player in the league. I always had Wade right next to him young fella. I did had problems with other people crowning Lebron as that.


This is what I was referring to: 



> *LOL. I laugh at those who thinks Kobe is not the best in the game.* Huge win on Boston, 5 straight road wins and owner of the best road record in the league.


To me that implies you are saying Kobe is the best in the game (e.g. you "laugh" at those who don't)

Not trying to be a dick or anything, just stood out to me because a post later you were saying Wade is a better fit for the Lakers than Kobe. Which again is a tough sell considering LA has the best record in the NBA right now and relies on Bryant's outside shooting.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

afobisme said:


> im a laker fan, but sorry.. i don't see how this proves he's the best player in the game. especially considering that he chucked/forced a lot of shots tonight.


You've also admitted in the past that your not fond of Kobe. As a matter of fact you were the one criticizing Kobe last year for petty stuff.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Affirmative Action said:


> Everyone blew huge shots in OT. Pierce, Allen and Kobe all had their fair share of offensive lapses. It was an intense game.


As far as I'm concerned, Kobe and Lebron are on a tier above everyone else, just because Pierce and Allen are missing shots in OT means Kobe gets the free pass for poor shot selection? 

Again, Kobe came up big in the fourth, really actually saved his team in the fourth, but some better decision making in OT and his team wins handedly, not by a point.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Not trying to be a dick or anything, just stood out to me because a post later you were saying Wade is a better fit for the Lakers than Kobe. Which again is a tough sell considering LA has the best record in the NBA right now and relies on Bryant's outside shooting.


You came out of nowhere in this thread. You have to go back a few pages/post to find out.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

Drewbs said:


> As far as I'm concerned, Kobe and Lebron are on a tier above everyone else, just because Pierce and Allen are missing shots in OT means Kobe gets the free pass for poor shot selection?.


Pierce and Allen cant get a free pass because the Lakers won.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Affirmative Action said:


> Pierce and Allen cant get a free pass because the Lakers won.


Pierce and Allen are also not MVP candidates (well, outside the eyes of Boston fans) or one of the league's two best players.


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## Affirmative Action (Aug 15, 2007)

Say what? Pierce was an NBA Finals MVP not too many months ago. If anything, that has more weight than the regular season kind.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Yeah, let's crown Billups and Parker too while we're at it.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Kobe best player in the game regardless who win's the MVP.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Affirmative Action said:


> _Players_ dont win? Thats in plural form.


I have no problems admitting a grammar mistake, but I think it's kind of unfair that you didn't respond to anything I said.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Affirmative Action said:


> Jordan transcends the game like no other. Anyone knows he is that one exception to a rule. How someone can even put a guy like Lebron on top when there are a couple of players playing at a level similar to his, is unbecoming of any basketball fan. Your implication to clarify or fix the boundaries or extent of Jordan's legacy with a "_yada, Yada_" measures your limited understanding of Jordan's certitude impact in the game.


i'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. it's not really an argument that makes any sense. we were able to anoint jordan before he won anything over guys who did because he so obviously transcended the game? just as there were people who thought jordan's greatness was obvious, there are those who think lebron's is obvious, and obvious with or without a title. your point is that the ones saying it for jordan were right (his detractors at the wrong of course), and the ones saying it for lebron are wrong (and his detractors right of course)? 

i said this back when kobe haters were saying he was a product of shaq and just another shooting guard, either you can recognize greatness when it's smacking you in the face or you can choose to ignore it and wait for more evidence.




Affirmative Action said:


> So tell me, do you really believe that Lebron is the undisputed best player in the game right now?


so tell me, did i say that? and no, i don't believe it. but that doesn't mean he's not already proven as an all-time great player. i'm not holding out to see if he really is great. he is.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Affirmative Action said:


> Say what? Pierce was an NBA Finals MVP not too many months ago. If anything, that has more weight than the regular season kind.


do you really believe people were thinking paul pierce just proved he's the best player in the league and now shoulders the weight of proving that day-in-day-out?


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Whether Paul Pierce was even the best player in that series is debatable. He was certainly the most dramatic, but Ray Allen played a much more consistent series than Pierce.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Well.......


..seems that NBA is also playa hatin yo


No triple double for Bron, the league took it away. LOL.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

One rebound being taken away doesn't make his game any less spectacular; sure, now it means that nobody has officially had a 50-point triple-double since the merger, but who cares? A great game nonetheless.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

There was not one letter in my post referring to his overall performance that night but whatever....


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I didn't say there was.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Phil stated that it was not the win in Boston or Cleveland that was the turning point for the Lakers. Here is what he said it was:



> "There were two things. One, obviously, was Andrew going down and the immediate shock of one of our best players being on the floor, and the subsequent review of almost the same thing happening at the same time. The other thing was the subsequent game, Kobe coming out and [scoring 61], having the big, pick-me-up type of game that infused the energy of this club."


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Yup.


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