# Are the Nuggets stuck with Andre Miller



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

I know that Roddney shares my viewpoint that Dre isn't a good fit for the Nuggets, especially with his relationship issues with Melo. However, the FA market isn't very good, so any trade the Nuggets make with Dre would have to bring another PG back. Unless there is a blockbuster, I see another full season of Dre maning the point.

Now I know that some of you are going to talk about how important Dre is to the team; however, the floor spacing the half court still sucks when Dre is running the point.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> I know that Roddney shares my viewpoint that Dre isn't a good fit for the Nuggets, especially with his relationship issues with Melo. However, the FA market isn't very good, so any trade the Nuggets make with Dre would have to bring another PG back. Unless there is a blockbuster, I see another full season of Dre maning the point.
> 
> Now I know that some of you are going to talk about how important Dre is to the team; however, the floor spacing the half court still sucks when Dre is running the point.


i think this team has a lot of options this off season. i dont think we are stuck with Dre at all.

Let me ask you this. outside of JKidd, Nash, and others we could land without trading people we dont wanna trade, what PG would you like to have. Forget about trade senerios, just name the ideal PG.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

There probably isn't a perfect choice, but Jason Terry or Mike James would do wonders for the offense. Ridnour would also help the offense, however, he would hurt the defense.

A Derek Fisher/Marcus Banks combo would be very nice. Brevin Knight is a willing passer, however, he would get killed on defense.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

dre has been the second best player on this team. consistancy is important...


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> dre has been the second best player on this team. consistancy is important...


Don't forget that he has constantly run a half court offense that has horrible floor spacing and that bogs down.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

well besides terry, all those pg's u mentioned all play for teams with losing records.

i'll take consistancy


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Also, the floor spacing isn't all his fault. The coach and players all have a lot to say about that. You can't place all the blame on Dre for what other people do.

Let's look at the things he is completely responsible for when determining his importance to the team.

First of all, he's a smart basketball player who knows when to pass and when not to pass.
Secondly, he can score as well as any PG in the league.
Thirdly, he's the best post up PG in the league.
Finally, he knows what it takes to win, and is willing to do it.

Now, he's not the best PG in the league, and his half court offense generaling is lacking. However, nobody on the team knows really what to do in a half court set, and that's not how the team was built. If we wanted to bulid a half court team, we wuoldn't be utilizing the altitude factor at all, which is not what management wants.


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## denversfiinest (Feb 6, 2006)

darth-horax said:


> Also, the floor spacing isn't all his fault. The coach and players all have a lot to say about that. You can't place all the blame on Dre for what other people do.
> 
> Let's look at the things he is completely responsible for when determining his importance to the team.
> 
> ...



couldn't have said it a lot better


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> Also, the floor spacing isn't all his fault. The coach and players all have a lot to say about that. You can't place all the blame on Dre for what other people do.


Yes, there are problems with some of the players rotating on offense to keep the floor spaced; however, some of that is where Dre decides to go with the ball. I don't believe he makes the best decision the majority of the time in the half court set.



> Let's look at the things he is completely responsible for when determining his importance to the team.
> 
> First of all, he's a smart basketball player who knows when to pass and when not to pass.
> Secondly, he can score as well as any PG in the league.
> ...


I'm not saying it is easy to improve upon him, but I disagree that he always passes at the proper time. I've seen too many open cutter missed.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

ok well here is what ive been chewing on.

Send (sign and trade)Nene and a future 2nd for Stephen Jackson and (sign and trade)Freddie Jones Indiana's first round pick

<!--StartFragment --> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Denver Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andre Miller
6-2 PG from Utah
14.1 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 8.4 apg in 36.4 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kenyon Martin
6-9 PF from Cincinnati
13.0 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
9.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Mike Bibby
6-1 PG from Arizona
21.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
5.9 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 20.0 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +8.8 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and -0.9 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Sacramento Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
9.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Mike Bibby
6-1 PG from Arizona
21.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
5.9 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 20.0 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andre Miller
6-2 PG from Utah
14.1 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 8.4 apg in 36.4 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kenyon Martin
6-9 PF from Cincinnati
13.0 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -8.8 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and +0.9 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_s>Successful Scenario</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_s>Due to Denver and Sacramento being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Denver and Sacramento had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Then use the MLE to ensure we have a quality backup to Reggie Evans and Marcus Camby. Or use the draft pick to take Boone, Armstrong,Simmons, O'Bryant etc

Projected Lineup

Camby C
Evans PF
Anthony SF
Stephen Jackson
Mike Bibby

Rotation: Earl Boykins, Fred Jones, Eddie Najera, Patterson, Elson? maybe, Rookie F/C,kenny thomas, garcia


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

NO WAY IN HELL sac does that, lol!!!

but ya, bibby would be nice


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> NO WAY IN HELL sac does that, lol!!!
> 
> but ya, bibby would be nice


brad miller
kenyon martin
ron artest
bonzi wells
andre miller

kevin martin, SAR

actually that doesnt look to bad. Mid-season there were kings fans interested in that trade. And of course some that were against it.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> brad miller
> kenyon martin
> ron artest
> bonzi wells
> ...


well that was before artest was on the team. they would lose SERIOUS shooting w/o bibby.

garcia is a furure all-star. he can play...

bibby is a top 5 PG in the nba and a fan favorite, not to mention their best 3point threat. with that trade, the kings best shooter is...brad miller?

trust me. no way that happens.


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## AK-47 (Jul 7, 2005)

Lmao!


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> garcia is a furure all-star. he can play...
> 
> .


i liked drafting him over hodge, but im not sure id go that far. if you said that about Chris Paul or even Charlie V. Id say ok, but saying that about Garcia.... popular opinion would be against you.

It really all depends on Kenyon's Value. If Bibby chokes in the playoffs, goes cold like he does last year, he could be on the block. I was just proposing something that could actually go down. As opposed to say a deal for Steve Nash or JKidd


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Bibby is terrible on defense. I would never trade for him. Also people here really underrate Andre Miller. I just saw him up close, and in person when the Nuggets came to Portland. When the Nuggets had anyone other then Andre Miller running the offense the team struggled.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

The team would be in better hands if they could bring in a shooter. 

Don't get rid of Miller! Just add a shooter to create space. Much like Peja did for Sac-Town.

Mike James would be a horrible starter anywhere but Toronto and even his teammates were getting sick of his constant shooting...ie Charlie Villanueva (they supposidly got in fisticuffs in the locker room recently.)

Mike James would be a nice bench player however instead of Earl Boykins. His shooting could come in handy and he could play along side Dre-day.

Dre's passing is getting a lot better now that he's getting used to some consistant teammates. His shooting from deep would not be such a glaring problem if the team added James or Stephen Jackson.

And reports from Indiana are that they are considering blowing up the team. So a sign and trade of Nene would make sense. 

I say Keep Andre and add a shooter in the offseason.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Timmons said:


> The team would be in better hands if they could bring in a shooter.
> 
> Don't get rid of Miller! Just add a shooter to create space. Much like Peja did for Sac-Town.
> 
> ...


Great post, I also agree with you regarding the Nuggets lack of a real SG threat. When DJ is on from outside or Buckner you don't have any spacing issues. However when the Nuggets go cold from the field spacing becomes a problem because teams just pack it in the lanes. This is not an Andre Miller issue, it's a team problem.

I've always liked Andre, but after seeing him run the offense up close and personal. (had great seats by the floor) I can tell you that when Eisely was running the offense the Nuggets struggled against the Blazers. As soon as Andre came in the game he had his way with Telfair, and Blake. The offense ran so much better with Andre. Also I saw Miller pass the ball constantly to Melo. So I think any issues that Melo and Miller may have had, are now in the rearview mirror.

Nuggets are going to make some noise in the playoffs! :cheers:


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> i liked drafting him over hodge, but im not sure id go that far. if you said that about Chris Paul or even Charlie V. Id say ok, but saying that about Garcia.... popular opinion would be against you.
> 
> It really all depends on Kenyon's Value. If Bibby chokes in the playoffs, goes cold like he does last year, he could be on the block. I was just proposing something that could actually go down. As opposed to say a deal for Steve Nash or JKidd


a lot of people havent seen him play. if he was a starter and didnt get hurt this year, he could very well have been as good as paul.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

i also agree with andre staying. he is underrated IMO. we need a SG that can shoot. period.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

AK-47 said:


> Lmao!


somebody should ban this troll already...


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## AK-47 (Jul 7, 2005)

pac4eva5 said:


> somebody should ban this troll already...



that hurts man... I can have a pipe dream too. Boozer for Kevin Garnett. **edit*


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

In other news:

Howard Eisley really can't play PG. He can shoot the three, but dang, I could run the point as well as he's been running it lately.

We should have signed Wes Person.


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## AK-47 (Jul 7, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> In other news:
> 
> Howard Eisley really can't play PG. He can shoot the three, but dang, I could run the point as well as he's been running it lately.
> 
> We should have signed Wes Person.



When Eisley was on the jazz. He is a vet that can't do much. Last season he got a lot of time and didn't impress me at all. He was running the jazz 2 PGs on the floor at the same time last season. I hope the jazz never sign him again. Just my 2 cents on eisley.


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## Snicka (Dec 29, 2003)

darth-horax said:


> In other news:
> 
> Howard Eisley really can't play PG. He can shoot the three, but dang, I could run the point as well as he's been running it lately.
> 
> We should have signed Wes Person.


He isn't very good, but with the Boykins injury he was needed. As for Miller, something that I think hasn't been mentioned yet, is his ability to throw the lob. He is one of the better pgs at this and when healthy, we have the players to take advantage of it.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Another positive for Miller is that you can count on him night in and night out. The guy hasn't missed a game all season, and thats the rule for Miller, not the exception.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

23AJ said:


> Another positive for Miller is that you can count on him night in and night out. The guy hasn't missed a game all season, and thats the rule for Miller, not the exception.


agreed. going back to my first post in this thread...consistancy from the PG position is HUGE!


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

We signed Eisley BEFORE the injury. Hopefully we'll get Earl back for the playoffs.

It seems as if since he's been out, we've been able to see exactly what he means to this team. He's a consistent scoring threat who changes the pace of the game. He steps up the D, too.

Anybody know the status on Najera?


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

Snicka said:


> He isn't very good, but with the Boykins injury he was needed. *As for Miller, something that I think hasn't been mentioned yet, is his ability to throw the lob.* He is one of the better pgs at this and when healthy, we have the players to take advantage of it.


There actually have been lots of discussions on Miller in this forum, probably dating back too long for some of you, but this point has been discussed. He throws the lob probably better than anyone in the league this year.


Najera is supposidly going to be back and ready for L.A. in the playoffs. And like much of the team (KMart, Boink-man, Camby....) he'll have to get back to form right away if Denver wants to advance past the Clip-Show.


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## NeTs15VC (Aug 16, 2005)

OT: I dont know but Miller but it seems like Buckner wants out from what I've been reading.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

kidd and nash throw a better oop but andre is definetely up there...


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