# OT: USA vs Puerto Rico/ Olympic Rules



## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I just turned on the TV. We're down 22. What the heck is going on? Anyone watch the first half?

Also- would someone explain to me how this tourney works? What does this game vs PR mean?


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

its the usa comittes fault they have so many green guys who cant shoot


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

*so i got my answer*

We are in a group of 6 teams. We need to finish in the top 4 to go to the medal round. Every win is 2 pts, every loss is 1pt. So if we lose this, it's a bad start and could hurt us. PR was supposed to be our gimme.


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## AxS50 (Feb 4, 2003)

It's shocking. Something truly started 4 years ago in Sydney. Everyone was all over the Lithuanians getting 2 points behind the USA in that game. How things have changed.

Jefferson (3/15 shooting) and Iverson (1/9 from the shorter 3 point line) sure looks like a good choice, eh?

Brown will need to shake things up.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

Arroyo is a special player , the guy is so clutch


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

I love seeing the underdog win like that. And it was wonderful basketball too... nothing like the US game.


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

comin back..down by 8 now


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Well, this worked out just like many of us (me at least) predicted when we first saw this roster of players.

This is a team built to sell T-Shirts, not to win games. Too many individuals seeking individual glory, not enough teamwork. 

Hang this loss around David Stern's neck. He basically picked this crap *** 'team.' Lebron James will be a great player some day. Carmello Anthony too...but they're not ready to play in the Olympics. (At least not to play AND win.)

We needed Michael Redd or Brent Barry or hell...even Wes Person. Can't win international games without some shooters.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Ah, is this yet another 'wake-up call"? Allen Iverson says so. It's a wake-up call that the nba has been EXPOSED. Why pay these guys 14 mil a year when a forgiener will do a better job for a 10th of the price. The league needs a major overhaul.

Portland should trade for Carlos Arroyo! The Jazz want Rahim, how about Hapering and Arroyo for Rahim.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I think LeBron and Melo need to play MORE if you ask me. You can't blame them too much when they don't get the minutes, can you? Bench Jefferson and Marbury and play LeBron and Melo more please!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> Ah, is this yet another 'wake-up call"? Allen Iverson says so. It's a wake-up call that the nba has been EXPOSED. Why pay these guys 14 mil a year when a forgiener will do a better job for a 10th of the price. The league needs a major overhaul.
> 
> Portland should trade for Carlos Arroyo! The Jazz want Rahim, how about Hapering and Arroyo for Rahim.


Weren't you the one saying some racist stuff like a week and half ago. I think your opinion should be deemed irrelevant you bigot.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> I think LeBron and Melo need to play MORE if you ask me. You can't blame them too much when they don't get the minutes, can you? Bench Jefferson and Marbury and play LeBron and Melo more please!


Well, you're wrong again. Those guys are among the worst when it comes to playing TEAM basketball.

They appear to be more worried about their next shoe deal and whether they get face time on camera than whether they win.

What was that 3 pointer Lebron puked up near the end there? Wes Person would have buried that shot. Or better yet, he would have passed to somebody else, realizing he was not open.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I'd say step #1 would be getting a shooting guard that can actually make shots.

The second-best thing would be to put Allen Iverson on the bench.

I don't know where I can find a box score, but other than a single 3 and a meaningless, stat-ameliorating basket at the very end, I didn't see Iverson do ANYTHING other than jack up lots of misses.

Wade looked good and Duncan was decent. James had his moments, too... but man, that was some horrible basketball.

Ed O.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Weren't you the one saying some racist stuff like a week and half ago. I think your opinion should be deemed irrelevant you bigot.


:yes:

Here's what he said after the US lost to Italy:



> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> If a below average forgein team can waste a bunch of nba 'all-stars'. They should all have a roster spot on an nba team. Screw all these highschool geeks. Let's get some new blood into the gang banging pot smoking sister marrying chicken screwing nba.


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

Kudos for Puerto Rico, they played better and got the win. Clearly, we must take steps to ensure this never happens again: statehood for Puerto Rico now!

Other ideas: if you've got a bunch of atheltic wing players with erratic handles and shots, maybe playing intense defense is the only way you're going to win. Good luck playing good team defense with such little time as a team. Maybe next time, getting a better variety of players would help.

Also, I'm kinda glad that Zach isn't on that team now. That's a little history best not to be associated with. They could really, really use a monster on the offensive glass like him, though.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

I don't think that this is really surprising. It was widely discussed how this NBA is extremely young (almost a college-age team) and not good at shooting. With the advances in play in other countries, as well as the effective use of the zone defense, our team is just NOT that good. Not only is the US team having trouble scoring, but it doesn't appear to have a strong, cohesive defense that makes stops. Out of the top 5 NBA players, only Duncan is playing (with the other 4 being Kobe, Oneal, McGrady and KG), AND none of the player's on our olympic team play the Center position for their NBA team. I think that Boozer was playing center earlier. 

Personally, I don't know why Iverson is even on the team, let alone a captain. He is simply not a winner in my opinion. He's essentially a tiny shooting guard that has a big heart, but is a miserable team player. 



> Portland should trade for Carlos Arroyo! The Jazz want Rahim, how about Hapering and Arroyo for Rahim.


Good luck. Maybe we could have made that trade two months ago. However, in that period of time, Utah has added Mehmet Okur, Chris Humphris (from Minnesotta) AND Carlos Boozer to the roster. I can't imagine them wanting to take on another PF when they already have Boozer and Humphris. Regardless, after how Arroyo played today, there is no way they are going to let him go. He played really well in Utah over the last year and is a major reason that they were as competitive as they were. SO....that trade wouldn't work, although I'd love to have Arroyo on the team becasue he is an excellent pass-first, clutch point guard (he would be good to have while/IF Telfair develops). 


Just my $ 0.02


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

My 2 cents says take the NBA champs or even the NCAA champs and send them to the Olympics, coach and all. 

This is an excellent example of why all this whining about the Blazers not signing 'the big whammy' sucks. 

Teams win games. 

Puerto Rico played as a unit and they won. They aren't over-achievers they are a team.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

I still can't believe we put together a team to go up against zone defenses.... WITH NO SHOOTERS. Brilliant.


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## 4-For-Snapper (Jan 1, 2003)

I watched the whole game, and the US team just plain sucked. What we have are three rookies, one guy who has yet to play an NBA game, a few mid-level players, and Iverson + Duncan. This team has the potential to beat any team in the world, yet they aren't even a *team*. They hog the ball. They can't hit jumpers. And they have no pure shooters! We got humiliated today, plain and simple. Maybe have a better chance next time.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Weren't you the one saying some racist stuff like a week and half ago. I think your opinion should be deemed irrelevant you bigot.


Yes he was. Thats why I take his opinion with a grain of salt.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

"It's shocking"

Nope..
they can shoot ,USA can't ..

Perhaps the "stars" should take some lessons on how to 
play team basketball.
I think it is fantastic for the NBA,that they lost !!!

In the entire NBA..there is only a small handful that can shoot.
I really like the world that has come into basketball.

There is more to basketball than "stars" and dunks.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

"With the underrated Arroyo patiently orchestrating his team's attack":clap:


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

I've been saying all season Utah was a much more talented team then everyone gave them credit for, and specifically, Arroyo was the most under rated point guard in the league. That kid's got a lot of skill and poise. And Amare's probably icing his groin after that first half shake...

Dan


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: so i got my answer*



> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> We are in a group of 6 teams. We need to finish in the top 4 to go to the medal round. Every win is 2 pts, every loss is 1pt. So if we lose this, it's a bad start and could hurt us. PR was supposed to be our gimme.


US could still win the gold with this prelim loss, but I wouldn't bet on it.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

"I've been saying all season Utah was a much more talented team then everyone gave them credit for, and specifically, Arroyo was the most under rated point guard in the league."

You better believe they are..and they got better !

They are a really fun team to root for.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Let the handwringing begin. The US loses...oh, the shame.

Until they make these guys try out for a spot on the team and build the roster with a specific team objective in mind, we're going to suffer losses like this. The world has gotten to be way too good for us to send a bunch of NBA prima donnas picked for their star power instead of their abilities.

I'm betting that Duncan's going to hear about this one from Ginnobli for a long time.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Regardless of the outcome of this years olympics, they did a horrible job organizing the team.

No Center
No True Point Guard
No Shooters

The whole team consists of forwards and slashers... simply horrible planning...


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

To be fair, there is a major problem for the US organizers: Remove the Int's from the equation, and there are precious few players available for selection that are better than average shooters. All the good ones already declined invitations... Redd and Barry would've helped, but the list of possibles is pretty short and quickly drops below the level of what most opponents will be throwing at them.

Also, aside from Shaq, what other true centers are available for selection???

Dan


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ZBoFanatic</b>!
> Regardless of the outcome of this years olympics, they did a horrible job organizing the team.
> 
> No Center
> ...


I totally agree. I remember when players like KG, Shaq, Kobe and McGrady declined their spot on the olympic roster and were replaced with invitations to the likes of Shawn Marion, Richard Jefferson, and Amare Stodamire. 

I mean, no offense, but when a player hasn't made an All-Star Team (Odom for example), do you really expect them to be as good as the 1992 team, which is filled with more then a handful of the NBA's 50 Greatest players of all-time.

I was really surprised that the NBA didn't go after more True Center's, PG's and shooters....but then again, who are they supposed to go after? Many of the NBA's best players are from other countries (Peja, Dirk). 

It doesn't help when some players like Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton decline due to security concerns.

But in all honesty, who else could we send. It seems the NBA is becoming dominated by the slashers, and there are less and less quality pure PG's and dominating centers. So, that could also lead to a discussion of who else could have been asked/Taken the lacking positions.

For example:

Center: Shaq, Ratliff (who showed his strength this year)...???
PG: Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Baron Davis ....too Bad Tony Parker is French.
SG: Ray Allen, Michael Redd, Kobe, McGrady, Ron Artest


It just seems to me, upon thinking about it, that America is REALLY losing its dominance in Basketball. There aren't that many dominating centers, Excellent Shooting SG's (like Allen) or Pure PG (unfortunately Kidd=Injured, Nash=Canadian, Cassell=Injured?)

Of course the US SHOULD win, and there is no excuse for them not to. We do have the best players and talent. But, regardless, I think that this loss helps to highlight just how little the US has in terms of these positions that used to be fairly common staples of a well-built team.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Did anyone notice Puerto Rico's Uni's are similar to Portland's? (stripes)


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

How come the likes Jamaal Maggloire,Rashard Lewis,Matt Harpring,Eddie Jones,Voshon Leonhard,etc weren't offered spots on the team? None are great players but they are team players who each bring something great to the table, and CAN SHOOT!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> How come the likes Jamaal Maggloire,Rashard Lewis,Matt Harpring,Eddie Jones,Voshon Leonhard,etc weren't offered spots on the team? None are great players but they are team players who each bring something great to the table, and CAN SHOOT!


Magloire's a Canadian, but your point is taken in any case... the current team just lacks shooters.

More than that, though, it has a guy who shoots the most who can't shoot in Allen Iverson. 

Put Marbury out there today in place of Iverson and I would be a dollar to a donut the USA would have won, because Marbury's simply a much better shooter than Iverson is.

Ed O.


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## gdog (Aug 24, 2003)

*Why do US NBA players not want to play in the olympics?*

1. After they win one, they figure they have done their part (KG, Shaq).
2. The US has never lost since they allowed NBA players, so it's not like their country really needs them to win it, someone else can.
3. Their NBA teams don't want them to go.
4. They have less sense of commitment to their nation as they face prejudice in their own country (no, not you Raef Lafrentz).
5. They are gazillionaires.
6. They dissed me before, so I'm not going to be their second choice.
7. Reasons such as marriages, injuries, trades, time demands etc. which each have varying degrees of credibility (you couldnt get married in June, Vince?).
8. It's the olympics, and it really doesn't mean as much to them as to all the other athletes and the fans.

Basically, some good/questionable reasons that make them not the ungrateful *******s they are portrayed as, but I think if the US loses players will begin to question if they really have given enough to their homeland.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Magloire's a Canadian, but your point is taken in any case... the current team just lacks shooters.
> ...


 totally forgot JM is a canadian...I'm a hoser ,replace JM with Theo then  or even Brad Miller.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I still think this USA team will win gold. Their roster is messed up by having too many players with similar ability, but if they focus on pressure defense they should be alright. Taking a loss early in the tournament may actually help them down the line in my opinion.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

That wasn't just a lost, though. They look thoroughly confused, and even worse, against a lightly regarded team. And that's with some of the game's best tacticians (Brown and Popp) at the helm. Doesn't say a whole lot for the mindset of that group of players.

Dan


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> 
> 
> totally forgot JM is a canadian...I'm a hoser ,replace JM with Theo then  or even Brad Miller.



Hey Mas Brad Is Mad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

*Not looking good...*

Puerto Rico pounded us by nearly 20... and they aren't even close to being in the same league as Argentina or Bosnia. If you think this one was bad, just wait...

I don't know what Brown, Pop, etc. can do to turn this thing around. Yeah, they've got some tools on the roster (pun intended), but not the right tools for the international game. Perimeter shooting has already been talked about here ad nauseum... but they also need some perimeter defense. I don't see a single solid perimeter defender in the entire lineup. And guess where most of our opponents' points are coming from! They also don't have many guys who know how to read / break down a strong zone defense, OR guys who know how to implement a strong zone defense at the OTHER end of the court! It's not just perimeter shooting, people.

This roster was built the wrong way, and for the wrong reasons. Sure, some of it boils down to so many of our first-choices saying, "Thanks, but no thanks." But Stern and the organizing committee still made some bad second choices in the context of the international game (see above). And now Brown, Pop, and Co. have a HUGE uphill battle ahead of them.

Still, I think this makes for a much more exciting run than we'd have if our team was as dominant as it's been in the past. I'm much more interested in tuning in and cheering for the team now that they aren't a lock to win game in, game out.

PBF


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Not looking good...*



> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> Still, I think this makes for a much more exciting run than we'd have if our team was as dominant as it's been in the past. I'm much more interested in tuning in and cheering for the team now that they aren't a lock to win game in, game out.
> PBF


Nah... I'm cheering *against* the USA team. The team demonstrates everything that is wrong with NBA ball and with the gangland fan appreciation of selfish showboaters. 

I guess there is a political dimension here as well. I am a huge supporter of the United States -- not because it is my country but because I believe in the ideals for which (IMO) it stands. 

I want to support American basketball, but not when it exhibits the absolute worst of American culture for the world to see. IMMHO, this is precisely what is happening. Americans are hard working -- the team is not. Americans will do anything to win -- the players on the team will not. Americans don't quit when they are behind -- but these losers do. Americans form the most effective, innovative and adaptive teams in the world. Usually.

May the best *team* win. And hopefully the NBA will be better for getting creamed by dramatically inferior talent who know how to win.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I hope the US loses too, because it'll wake the guys up that they can't just show up and win. Also, there are players on the team who didn't deserve to make it, and only made it because there are certain players who couldn't make it (Kobe, Kidd) or didn't want to make it (Shaq, McGrady).


Basically, only Tim Duncan is worthy of being on the team.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Not looking good...*



> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> 
> 
> Nah... I'm cheering *against* the USA team. The team demonstrates everything that is wrong with NBA ball and with the gangland fan appreciation of selfish showboaters.


Again what does stuff like this mean? Please explain... We're gangland fans now?


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

this again makes me wonder if guys like Richie Frahm are vastly undervalued in the NBA. he was third in the league in three point field goals per 48 minutes last year.  

every NBA team seems to have two or three tall slashers, mostly drafted after (at most) a year or two of college.

maybe we're seeing the future in the Olympics, and it's time to start giving the jumpshooters more attention.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> maybe we're seeing the future in the Olympics, and it's time to start giving the jumpshooters more attention.


Not just jumpshooters, Wank. Well-rounded players in general.

And isn't that the way it used to be, pre-Jordan?

PBF


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I actually think guys like Marion and LeBron are reasonably well-rounded. they rebound well, they use their size, length and speed to defend better than a guy like Aroyo or Brent Barry. they can dunk and are incredibly nifty ten feet and in. they just can't shoot a lick, and when they aren't sure what to do they drive to the hole to draw the foul (instead of passing it), much like Jordan often did. 

I honestly think the term "well-rounded" does little to describe international players' style: cram the middle and make rebounding and interior defense a numbers game. pass it around the perimeter until somebody gets a look at an 18 footer. repeat. repeat. repeat. yawn. repeat. 

on one end of the pendulum is international perimeter ugly ball. on the other end is American Jordan-inspired interior ugly ball. both are ugly. 

I suspect, as a result of this Olympics (and the success of effective outside shooting from guys like Hamilton and Sheed) we're going to see the pendulum swing towards the middle, and guys like Richie Frahm will start to have more value in the NBA.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Not looking good...*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> We're gangland fans now?


Somehow the NBA seems to market itself to kids who want to be NBA players. The rest of us are supposed to just be cool when the game is dominated by players who only know how to dunk, never learned how to dribble, and would balk at taking the proverbial 1000 shots a day to practise one of the core fundamentals.

I actually don't find team ball boring. It is much more intellectually satisfying to see well-executed picking, cutting, and passing leading to a bucket than it is to see the clear-out and one-on-one ball. But then again, I went to Princeton.  And Princeton might still have lost to Puerto Rico, but only by 2: 39 to 37.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Not looking good...*



> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> Puerto Rico pounded us by nearly 20... and they aren't even close to being in the same league as Argentina or Bosnia. If you think this one was bad, just wait...


I'm actually not worried about teams better than PR any more than I am about PR--which is to say the USA is vulnerable but still should be favored.

What is the USA going to do _worse_ than they did yesterday? The odds of the team going 3 for 24 from three point range in any other game are low... it wasn't PR playing good defense, it was just the team being off.

Or, maybe, the team just not being good at shooting, and in that case it doesn't matter if the opponent is PR or the original Dream team: they're not going to win many games.

Ed O.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> 
> I honestly think the term "well-rounded" does little to describe international players' style: cram the middle and make rebounding and interior defense a numbers game. pass it around the perimeter until somebody gets a look at an 18 footer. repeat. repeat. repeat. yawn. repeat.


Not at all. Even in the most intelligently coached college teams the big men in the middle get a heavy percentage of the points. It comes down to fundamentals -- moving well without the ball, pinpoint passing, smart positioning. Think Sabonis -- he came from the best tradition of international ball. Was his basketball at all boring? 

If I had to typify the difference, it was that Sabonis created for other players. And it was a very beautiful and exciting thing to watch.


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

JEGA!!!!!! :yes:


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> Think Sabonis -- he came from the best tradition of international ball. Was his basketball at all boring?
> 
> If I had to typify the difference, it was that Sabonis created for other players. And it was a very beautiful and exciting thing to watch.


nope, it was a lot of fun. 

Michael Jordan basically invented some of the best traditions of American ball. was his basketball boring? 

you can site the very best of both extremes, and you are right in saying they are fantastic to watch. the genius of individuals is often found at the extreme. 

unfortunately, the wretchedness of the masses is also found at the extremes. 

man, first Machiavelli, now Ayn Rand. somebody get me a doobie.


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

I don't think a cookie-cutter system of play that disregards the individual talents of the team is altogether bad, but I wouldn't call it terribly "American" either. It's nice to see guys who can do a variety of things, especially unexpected things, so I'll enjoy a Sabonis or Jordan with appropriate complementary players more than a bunch of half-court jump-shooters, generally.

There are a lot of ways to try and make up a team, and this Team USA could still win easily even without good shooters. They would have to play a Pistons level of defense to do it, though, and they're not. That's the only real shot this group has, as constructed. Of course if they'd had a little balance or strategy when putting the team together, they wouldn't be in this mess and would have either better shooters, defenders, or both. Once all the first and second choices turned the offer down, they probably should have gone to picking guys by need than by number of all-star votes.

This coalition of the willing isn't awful, but shame on those who stayed home.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> 
> Michael Jordan basically invented some of the best traditions of American ball. was his basketball boring?


I am a huge Jordan fan as well, but I am unaware that he invented any traditions. Do other players emulate him by sticking their tongues out when they dunk?

What am I missing?


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## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> I think LeBron and Melo need to play MORE if you ask me. You can't blame them too much when they don't get the minutes, can you? Bench Jefferson and Marbury and play LeBron and Melo more please!


Interestingly, when Melo entered the game, the US trailed 26-22. When he left, Puerto Rico led 36-24. There is a reason why him and Amare only played 3 minutes apiece. 

There's also a reason why these guys' adjusted +/- stats are not very favorable. People always seem more eager to debunk the stat than question their boo's basketball awareness, so perhaps this will open a few eyes but I doubt it.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> I am a huge Jordan fan as well, but I am unaware that he invented any traditions. Do other players emulate him by sticking their tongues out when they dunk?
> 
> What am I missing?


more than any player in the history of the game (even Dr J), he glamorized dunking, slashing and dominating isolation-style offense. you look at guys from Garnett to Bryant to Iverson to Darius Miles, and you see guys who dribble-drive the ball in from the perimeter instead "settling for the jumpshot." 

Jordan was the best ever at it, and ever since it seems like we have an entire league predicated on being like Mike. 

the few who play Mike's style and do it well are a real treat to watch. the Olympic team clearly demonstrates that no team can support that many Jordan wannabes. it's as ugly as watching Theo Ratliff do a Sabonis impersonation.


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

Another angle to look at it from...

I'm a huge fan of #4# but perhaps he's not the right coach for this format.

It seems to me that he's trying to 'hoosier' the team. The whole 'break them down and build them up' theory. I have no doubt that given the opportunity to coach a team for 6 months, his team would be outstanding.

However, with only 3 or 4 weeks to prepare, instead of being so bent on doing it 'the right way', perhaps it would make more sense to look at the roster and run an offense that's suited for this team.

We know that there are no good perimeter players on the team. We also know that from 1 through 12, we have the best athletes in the competition. Why not a pressing, man to man defense with a run and gun offense?

That said, I still think the US is going to win gold.


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

I smell vindication for George Karl.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I think that the deer in the headlights look that Iverson and Duncan had say it all.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

It's probably a waste of time to try to explain anything to you guys since most of you lack a cerebral cortex. But my comments were not racist, they were reality. 90% of the NBA is filled with blacks from the ghetto who only care about money, hip-hop, and getting on the highlight reel. They were duely exposed as posers! You guys are so stupid to think the NBA is the best basketball in the world. The NBA, and all it's players are a complete joke.

They earn over 10 million a year, yet get wasted by forgien players, most of whom were never considered for an nba roster because they aren't your typical black athletic hip-hop  please pick your terms better. This is terrfibly offensive to a large portion of the web site, and comments like this are not welcome on this site. .

NBA basketball sucks, and the USA a 2nd rate basketball country.
They've proven it time and again on the court. They went toe to toe with the competition and lost. So stop with the sorry excuses.

But you idiots are probably still going to run out and spend half your measley paychecks seeing these 2nd rate lazy players play.

And Paul Allen wonders why he's losing money. Thank God americans are stupid enough to be brainwashed into watching crap just because the media convinces them it's cool.


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> It's probably a waste of time to try to explain anything to you guys since most of you lack a cerebral cortex. But my comments were not racist, they were reality. 90% of the NBA is filled with blacks from the ghetto who only care about money, hip-hop, and getting on the highlight reel. They were duely exposed as posers! You guys are so stupid to think the NBA is the best basketball in the world. The NBA, and all it's players are a complete joke.
> 
> They earn over 10 million a year, yet get wasted by forgien players, most of whom were never considered for an nba roster because they aren't your typical black athletic hip-hop monkies.
> ...


If you really think for a second that any of these teams from other countries could compete in the NBA against actual NBA teams, I'm just not sure what to tell you.


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## RomaVictor (Feb 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> It's probably a waste of time to try to explain anything to you guys since most of you lack a cerebral cortex. But my comments were not racist, they were reality. 90% of the NBA is filled with blacks from the ghetto who only care about money, hip-hop, and getting on the highlight reel. They were duely exposed as posers! You guys are so stupid to think the NBA is the best basketball in the world. The NBA, and all it's players are a complete joke.
> 
> They earn over 10 million a year, yet get wasted by forgien players, most of whom were never considered for an nba roster because they aren't your typical black athletic hip-hop monkies.
> ...


HE calls blacks monkies(sic) and calls ALL of us idiots??! Tell me he's been banned.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RomaVictor</b>!
> 
> 
> HE calls blacks monkies(sic) and calls ALL of us idiots??! Tell me he's been banned.


where did he call blacks "monkies"?


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> where did he call blacks "monkies"?





> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> They earn over 10 million a year, yet get wasted by forgien players, most of whom were never considered for an nba roster because they aren't your typical black athletic hip-hop monkies.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!


wow..I totally miss-read that. I have informed the admins etc about this, and they'll advise us. I'm leaving it in only because I want them to see it as is, etc.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by Yega1979!
> They earn over 10 million a year, yet get wasted by forgien players, most of whom were never considered for an nba roster because they aren't your typical black athletic hip-hop monkies.


He should be banned for that comment....Uncalled for...

So are black monkeys? Or people who listen to hip hop? I am so upset with this....but being a mod myself I can't say even a quarter of what I want to say to this jerk....


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## RomaVictor (Feb 16, 2004)

*M_M*

This undecurrent of racism is something I've picked on from a great number of posts and articles about Team USA. 

It's like many observers can't differentiate(in terms of the character of the guys) from Iverson's off-court troubles and his heart on the floor. Or that Tim Duncan, Jefferson, Okafor, Wade, Lebron etc are not the same as Melo or AI.

People can talk about fundamentals and all the other junk, but you more often hear "And1" "streetball" "hip hop" etc.

Cuz as you know, you have a learning disability when it comes to basketball fundamentals if you listen to hip hop or come from an urban environment.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: M_M*



> Originally posted by <b>RomaVictor</b>!
> 
> Cuz as you know, you have a learning disability when it comes to basketball fundamentals if you listen to hip hop or come from an urban environment.


Uhh... yes, actually. We are, at least in part, products of our culture. If the culture glorifies hard work then individuals are more likely to value the same thing. If the culture glorifies showing off and laziness (not to mention bad music), then basketball fundamentals are going to be harder to come by.

Look at the real blue collar players in NBA history. I don't have all the facts in front of me, but I recall that most of them came from religious, nonurban backgrounds: from families that value hard work. Buck Williams comes to mind as an excellent example.

This is why I have a preference for *intelligent* players, because they tend not to make the same stupid mistakes, and they do tend to learn fundamentals better. The NBA has had smart players like David Robinson. And we have boneheads, too. The correlation between being a boneheaded player and coming from a boneheaded background is not too tough to find.

Lots of white people live in inner cities and listen to hip-hop, too. And I would avoid drafting their sorry a**es as well.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

BTW, if Yega gets banned, I'd really like to see the definition of what defines an inappropriate comment.

It astounds me that everyone gets offended when someone suggests that some players (not solely on the basis of their race, but also on the basis of their music/culture) bear a resemblance to jungle animals -- but nobody cares when others post 



> George Bush told me when I caught him smoking crack and raping babies


Both are free speech. Both may be nasty and unpleasant (I would rather see neither). And don't tell me that humour makes it OK, because racist jokes do not make racism any more acceptable.

If you replace "George Bush" above with "a black player" would that make it unacceptable? If so, why?

Let's get some perspective. Either some things cross the line or they do not; but IMMHO Yega's comment was a lot less vituperative than Barfo's. And I got flamed for putting Barfo's bile on my Ignore list. Go figure.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> BTW, if Yega gets banned, I'd really like to see the definition of what defines an inappropriate comment.


Dude calling a black guy a "monkey" is inappropriate....I dont see how you dont see that.....so it should be ok for him to drop N-bombs here too?


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: M_M*



> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhh... yes, actually. We are, at least in part, products of our culture. If the culture glorifies hard work then individuals are more likely to value the same thing. If the culture glorifies showing off and laziness (not to mention bad music), then basketball fundamentals are going to be harder to come by.
> ...



So now kids that listen to hip hop are ignorant also?.....That is all I listen to....I graduatedwith a 3.6 from high school and I currently have a 3.4 GPA in college and have several Microsoft certifications...I have never been arrested and I have no tattooes..I have a wife and I have never cheated on her....

That is like saying that everyone who listens to rock worships the devil.....every person who listens to country is a *******.....


Grow up....


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: M_M*



> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhh... yes, actually. We are, at least in part, products of our culture. If the culture glorifies hard work then individuals are more likely to value the same thing. If the culture glorifies showing off and laziness (not to mention bad music), then basketball fundamentals are going to be harder to come by.
> ...




I listen to hip hop all day....I have a 4.2 GPA in high school. Hmm....Does the fact that I listen to hip hop _really_ make me a boneheaded player? I value hard work and I am probably the most intelligent basketball player on my team. I understand intricate offenses with lots of cuts and passes. I understand playing HARD and playing DEFENSE at all times of the game. 

I can't believe how ignorant people can be sometimes. 

A lot of people that listen to hip hop can be boneheads, but that's mostly a coincidence. Please, don't generalize.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

I wish guys were just as upset with all the colorful words
applied to women.
They have words for women without any equal application for the guys.
Now that;'s upsetting !



anyway,here is what I came to the site for this am...

check out the next budding young star point guard..
and to think some laughed when we said he was a star already
last year..

http://www.nba.com/athens2004/arroyo_040818.html


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: M_M*

This is really very funny.



> Originally posted by <b>dmilesai</b>!
> 
> I can't believe how ignorant people can be sometimes.
> 
> A lot of people that listen to hip hop can be boneheads, but that's mostly a coincidence. Please, don't generalize.


That's pretty rich. Two generalizations followed by a request for me not to do so!

I am pleased that there are so many impressive high school students on this board.:laugh: 

Oh, wait! I cannot say that. It's a generalization!

iWatas

P.S. As long as we are generalizing: I think I was pretty clear that if you come from a specific culture, you are more likely to be a product of that culture. Isn't this self-evident?


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> I wish guys were just as upset with all the colorful words
> applied to women.
> They have words for women without any equal application for the guys.
> Now that;'s upsetting !


Yeah if you listen to garbage.....that is like saying every rock group worships the devil.....

You only know what the media tells you what hip hop is....


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: M_M*



> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> 
> 
> P.S. As long as we are generalizing: I think I was pretty clear that if you come from a specific culture, you are more likely to be a product of that culture. Isn't this self-evident?


P.S. As long as we are generalizing I bet you are one of those idiots who has a rebel flag on the back of his truck...

-if a mod deletes this that is fine....I apologize....I am done with this topic....

*straps on backpack...turns his iPod on and walks away listening to Common....*


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M_M*



> Originally posted by <b>Midnight_Marauder</b>!
> 
> 
> P.S. As long as we are generalizing I bet you are one of those idiots who has a rebel flag on the back of his truck...
> ...



So, a Mod is apologizing for his comments before they get edited? I guess you already know it warrants being edited.

Hmm.. I guess it's funny when that stuff comes from a Mod him/herself..


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> 
> 
> They earn over 10 million a year, yet get wasted by forgien players, most of whom were never considered for an nba roster because they aren't your typical black athletic hip-hop monkies.


I can't believe you just said *typical black hip hop monkies.* Are you kidding me? Yega you should be glad we are nowhere near each other, because I would put my fist through your face, if we were. 

Why hasn't this ***** been banned yet? How much more inflammatory does his rhetoric need to be? Jesus Christ.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: M_M*



> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> I think I was pretty clear that if you come from a specific culture, you are more likely to be a product of that culture. Isn't this self-evident?


I'm glad I don't come from your culture then...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Seriously I like the Portland fanbase, but Iwatas and Yega1979, your agenda is clear as day. 

And people think I just cry racism or bigotry because it's the thing to do. Goodness gracious.  This world is f'n sad I tell you that.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Seriously I like the Portland fanbase, but Iwatas and Yega1979, your agenda is clear as day.


First off, I think it's time this thread is closed.. Second, I don't think the comments by Iwatas should be lumped in with Yega1979. I know some people were offended by Iwatas, he didn't step over the line like Yega did.. JMO :whoknows:


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

How come the same people who accused me of being too sensitive when I thought comments about Bush raping babies was over the line, are now clamoring for me to be banned?

Sensitivity from Hong Kong Fooey? From a guy whose avatar is at home only in a mechanics' shed?




> Originally posted by <b>Scout226</b>!
> 
> Second, I don't think the comments by Iwatas should be lumped in with Yega1979. I know some people were offended by Iwatas, he didn't step over the line like Yega did.. JMO :whoknows:


Thank you for this. I really was just trying to point out a double standard, but I guess this was lost on some folks.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M_M*



> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm glad I don't come from your culture then...


Likewise. I would not be too proud being associated with a school that seriously trashed the place when they won the NCAA. "Fans hurled bottles, launched fireworks, sparked fires and wrecked property, as police officers responded with pepper spray and tear gas".... pathetic. 

You can have that culture.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Yeah, it was all orchestrated by us conniving engineering grad students too...

MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

I plotted the whole thing myself a year before being accepted to the program.

Nice try though.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M_M*



> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> 
> 
> Likewise. I would not be too proud being associated with a school that seriously trashed the place when they won the NCAA. "Fans hurled bottles, launched fireworks, sparked fires and wrecked property, as police officers responded with pepper spray and tear gas".... pathetic.
> ...


You are most certainly a pompous jerk, no way to get around that. Your comeuppance will be dealt upon you in some form of fashion. It always is.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Closing this. There's some stuff that needs to be sorted out, but the actual topic (USA Basketball) can be discussed in another thread.

Thanks,

Ed O.


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