# Pierce or Vince Carter???



## KG4MVP2 (Jul 28, 2003)

If u were starting a team and had to choose between these two players who would u choose???


----------



## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

Pierce has better all around stats, and he doesn't get hurt every week.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

I would rather Vince Carter. He has gotten his assists up this year and has a better FG percentage I think. Pierce is Shelfish and when Walker was there he was still Shelfish


----------



## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> I would rather Vince Carter. He has gotten his assists up this year and has a better FG percentage I think. Pierce is Shelfish and when Walker was there he was still Shelfish


Pierce is not "shelfish" at all. The only reason he takes his shots is because everyone else on the team is so damn bad.


I take Pierce.


----------



## quick (Feb 13, 2004)

hard to pick but I'll say Carter because of his style.


----------



## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

Probably whichever one seemed easier to trade at the time


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Easily Pierce. He's more well-rounded and far more durable.


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Neither.
Vince is always hurt and Pierce is too selfish to play with anyone who doesn't bow down to his holy greatness.

You need more then one player to win a championship and Pierce is incapable of taking a second chair to a better player.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

VC. Pierce is too selfish. I dont buy into this, "He has no one to pass to garbage." Before the trade neither did Vince but he still managed to find someone to pass to, so that argument is out the window. Ricky Davis is a better scorer than anyone outside Vince on the Raps so I dont see why he couldnt pass to him. Also, Vince is way less cocky and doesnt blame everything on everyone else.

On top of that, Vince had made it very obvious that he wants to be a Raptor for life, Im not sure if Paul has done that or not.


----------



## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

I'd take Paul Pierce. He is more of an all-around player and isn't injury prone. I'd like to think he's a better leader too...

Now if it was a dunk contest...


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Pierce couldn't lead a fish to water.






> Originally posted by <b>WhoDaBest23</b>!
> I'd like to think he's a better leader too...


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Props to you for noticing this.

He does whine a lot doesn't he.




> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Vince is way less cocky and doesnt blame everything on everyone else.


----------



## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

if vince wasnt on the mr glass team i would chose vince, i love vinces game, since he's constantly injured i would take pierce, or i would take vince and trade him and a couple draft picks and a filler for mcgrady or garnett


----------



## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

Pierce averages more assists rebounds and points than Carter. Davis doesnt always play major minutes and its pretty fair to say they have about the same amount of offensive options to pass and play with. With pierce being as high up as he is, in order to take a back seat it would either have to be a player that plays the same position or a dominant down low presence that pierce has never had so we dont know. I would take pierce. He plays just about every game and although not flashy, he does everything that carter does dunks&layups are both worth two.


----------



## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

Pierce. I think Vince is more talented than Paul but he's just not durable or aggressive enough.


----------



## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

ill take a healthy VC anyday


----------



## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

healthy VC and the real VC have been 2 different things for the latter part of his career


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Let me generate some anager out of the Cs fans here. Vince Carter is in a different league when you are trying to put a discussion between Carter Vs Pierce.

Let me elaborarte how sux and the C have to make a certain set plays for Paul Pierce to be effective.

1) He is not all-around offfensively. He is only effective in the highpost, which casual fans dont see that. The guy when in hightpost he scored on face up, and never is a lowpost player, by meaning lowpost, I mean back down some guards to score.

2) Again, the guy doesnt have the ballhandling skill to take the ball to the hole at the top of the key. That's limiting oppurtunities for him to make other plays other than the predictable high post double teams he sometimes created when against bad defenders. But like 2 seasons ago his team was swapped by Jersey, because of his inability to score other than in the lowpost, Jersey sent 2 or 3 guys to him, not so worry that he could dominating the game, but to force other players to step up everytime when the ball being swung around to the weakside. It's sux.

3) Boston allows Pierce to shoot many screens threes much like T-mac for the Magic. Seriously, playing freely like shooting 3s wont get you any championship here. Please be sure that Vince Carter 2-3 years ago and Kobe b4 have to adjust their game to suit their team. Lenny had a no all-star system while Jackon had the trinagle system.

I wish true fans now can stop the disscussion, I find it so offensive when you are trying to compare 2nd tire player to a superstar.


----------



## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> Let me generate some anager out of the Cs fans here. Vince Carter is in a different league when you are trying to put a discussion between Carter Vs Pierce.
> 
> Let me elaborarte how sux and the C have to make a certain set plays for Paul Pierce to be effective.
> ...


Arent you supposed to run set plays for your best player, if not, then why to complain about Vince being in a no-star system and with that system gone his scoring has gone down. Now if we are comparing a healthy top of the line VC vs. An in shape trimmed PP i think it is still very close and maybe then the edge is to VC honestly but the none of the two variables are a reality and i think right now although both are underperforming you have to pick pierce.


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

So which one is the superstar and which one is the second tier player?




> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> I wish true fans now can stop the disscussion, I find it so offensive when you are trying to compare 2nd tire player to a superstar.


----------



## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

I think the two are a little overrated when success is considered versus stat-stuffing and sneaker deals, but I'd give the edge to VC because of his post-season intensity.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>24-7</b>!
> So which one is the superstar and which one is the second tier player?


Vince is a superstar.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Pierce is not "shelfish" at all. The only reason he takes his shots is because everyone else on the team is so damn bad.


of course he's selfish---


i take vince


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

What has Vince done to make him a Superstar?






> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Vince is a superstar.


----------



## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

This year Carter averages more FGA/game than pierce and pierce averages more assists, so how is he more selfish? As for Play-off intensity, how is pierce lacking and what has Carter signifcantly dont that Pierce hasnt.


----------



## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

Pierce


----------



## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>24-7</b>!
> What has Vince done to make him a Superstar?


I'm wondering that myself. Pierce is more of a superstar than Vince. Getting votes to the all-star team and winning the dunk contest do not count.


----------



## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

i think Pierce is better but i would pick Carter, y'all know why


----------



## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

Pierce has had a second option in the playoffs he's appeared in with Toine. In his last playoff appearance, Vince took the team on his back, stepped up play in postseason, Raptors fought the finalists to the 7th game. In his last playoff appearance, Pierce played like usual (asleep through quarters 1-3), Celtics got their throats stepped on by the finalist and swept.

If he's healthy I take VC on my playoff team over Pierce in a heart beat.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> VC. Pierce is too selfish. I dont buy into this, "He has no one to pass to garbage." Before the trade neither did Vince but he still managed to find someone to pass to, so that argument is out the window.


'03-04
Carter: 4.7 assists per game
Pierce: 5.1 assists per game

Pierce is the only player in the entire NBA to lead his team in points, rebounds and assists. Not bad for being "shelfish".


----------



## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

Oh yeah, and Pierce averages roughly 4 turnovers a game in the postseason while VC averages about 2.33.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MongolianDeathCloud</b>!
> Oh yeah, and Pierce averages roughly 4 turnovers a game in the postseason while VC averages about 2.33.


That's because Pierce isn't afraid to take it to the hole.


----------



## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

Mmmm.. actually VC took the ball to the rack all the time in his last playoff season. Evidenced by his significantly higher shooting % (.436 vs .399).

Vince has settled for jumpers since his injury. I must admit that I'm assuming this hypothetical non-injured VC we're talking about would not be as soft as he's become.


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

Pierce in a heartbeat.


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Most of the people who posted on this thread have never saw Pierce or Carter in a lifetime. How hard is it to watch them ****in play, so you can insert a better perspective and opinion about them? 

Considering both are 100% healthy/at top form, I would choose Vince by a mile. (Don't even say I'm on his jock). 

Pierce is an extremely great player, and all you people who said he is selfish is foolish.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> That's because Pierce isn't afraid to take it to the hole.


What kind of logical explanation is there? When a player is sux, then he is.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> What kind of logical explanation is there? When a player is sux, then he is.


Oooooookaaaaaay.


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> What kind of logical explanation is there? When a player is sux, then he is.


You don't get many games down there in Hong Kong, do you?


----------



## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Most of the people who posted on this thread have never saw Pierce or Carter in a lifetime. How hard is it to watch them ****in play, so you can insert a better perspective and opinion about them?


I wouldn't go so far as to say people haven't seen them play, but I'm getting the feeling that the 2000-2001 east playoffs are at least not remembered very well, if seen at all. IMO it was the last time the east playoffs were actually exciting, and most of that had to do with Vince Carter.

Either that or people have had VC on their fantasy basketball teams


----------



## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> Either that or people have had VC on their fantasy basketball teams



Yikes. I wasted a 2nd round pick on the guy....


----------



## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

This is 2004.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Let's not go *too* far in annointing Carter the great playoff saviour.

Do Vince Carter fans remember McGrady's final year in Toronto, when the Raptors made the playoffs, faced the Knicks and Carter was nearly invisible? McGrady was the only one keeping the Raptors afloat in those games. The Raptors were swept in three extremely close games...games that Carter could have easily swung by playing well.

Carter has had his playoffs ups and downs. Like most players. He doesn't possess some exceptional ability to elevate in the playoffs.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Thread-relevant fact of the day: Pierce's 21-21 FT last year were a playoffs single-game record.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> You don't get many games down there in Hong Kong, do you?


I watched 4 raptors game for this season, and u are right, I didnt get to watch teh Cs. But dont blame on me, blame Boston lack of success on their own for not able to build up some market oversea here in HK.

But what do I need to know more? He was sux when he scored 27 a game to me. Now a even more pathetic losing team, so what do I need to know more?


----------



## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

> Carter has had his playoffs ups and downs. Like most players. He doesn't possess some exceptional ability to elevate in the playoffs.


Mmmm.. it's possible, but I think his playoff performance in 2001 was more of a natural progression of his game rather than an "up". 

Remember that first series against the Knicks was only VC's sophmore year.

PS: This is argument starting to get kind of tangled up in a "Darth Vader VS Superman" kind of way here.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Vince Carter, I just think he is a better player than Paul Pierce.


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> I watched 4 raptors game for this season, and u are right, I didnt get to watch teh Cs. But dont blame on me, blame Boston lack of success on their own for not able to build up some market oversea here in HK.
> ...


:whofarted


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Watch out Carter fans. The Pierce fanatics are out in force.:laugh:


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>24-7</b>!
> Watch out Carter fans. The Pierce fanatics are out in force.:laugh:


How many identities are you up to now?


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

*POOF*

*No more calling out posters.--BEEZ*



> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> How many identities are you up to now?


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>24-7</b>!
> *POOF*
> 
> *No more calling out posters.--BEEZ*


LMAO

BTW, I replied to your PM on your other username, in case you're interested.


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

I didn't send you a PM lol so someone has a surprise in their box.

This is a thread about who is better Pierce or Carter and I think the majority has spoken.

Why don't you start your own Pierce psycho thread somewhere else. Your ruining the Celtics board for the real fans. You beautiful man









> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> LMAO
> ...


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>24-7</b>!
> I knew you would accuse me of being someone else because I aint no Pierce *edited* but go check the IP numbers.


BTW, he can't check your IP address....he's not a mod.

Pierce in a heartbeat. You HAVE to consider injury-proneness, since the question was who would you take if you were starting a team.

And I'm not sure what you guys are talking about with this "Pierce is selfish" stuff? Pretty funny cos some people have already pointed out that Pierce has more asts'/game than Vince.

And John, you first say that Pierce can't score unless he's in the high post and then claim you haven't watched many C games this year. nothing against you personally, but i guess you haven't watched enough games. Pierce can score from just about anywhere on the court, same as Vince.

Not to mention that PP has often dominated the 4th quarter. Well back in the days when he had Antoine Walker and didn't have to be tripled team. He's still pretty clutch though.


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>24-7</b>!
> I didn't send you a PM lol so someone has a surprise in their box.


Suuuuuuuuuuuure you didn't.



> This is a thread about who is better Pierce or Carter and I think the majority has spoken.


I didn't count, but I'm guessing it's pretty even, and if there's a leader it's damn close. I don't think this thread is an authoritive reference for who's better between Pierce and Carter.



> Why don't you start your own Pierce psycho thread somewhere else. Your ruining the Celtics board for the real fans. You homer


I virtually never post on the Celtic board. In fact, I'd venture to say I've posted on there maybe 5 total times in the month of February. Considering you've only been regisitered since, well, February, I find it a bit interesting that you hold such a strong opinion of my influence on the Celtic board.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

id take Peirce, and wouldnt even think twice about it......Peirce is the better all around player, better defender and it not on the il every other month


----------



## 24-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

You were at the C's board today being a psycho.


Man, I don't care what you say. You don't matter.
Your type is well documented.









> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Suuuuuuuuuuuure you didn't.
> ...


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>wadecaroneddie</b>!
> id take Peirce, and wouldnt even think twice about it......Peirce is the better all around player, better defender and it not on the il every other month


I agree here. I mean people are talking about playoff performances and what not, but the fact of the matter is VC has never gotten to a Conference final and Paul Pierce has. Hes also more aggresive and as been stated very unselfish. I find it hilarious that, that has been said. Its cleary not knowing what your talking about to say that.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> I virtually never post on the Celtic board. In fact, I'd venture to say I've posted on there maybe 5 total times in the month of February. Considering you've only been regisitered since, well, February, I find it a bit interesting that you hold such a strong opinion of my influence on the Celtic board.


Ouch.


----------



## monkeyman44 (Feb 29, 2004)

VC, because he can put a lot more butts into an arena

The NBA is a business and butt-filled arenas are good if you're starting a team


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>24-7</b>!
> You were at the C's board today being a psycho.


I was on the Celtic board today finishing a pointless debate with your alter-ego. I made a reply that you (lastlaugh) contorted to fit your agenda.



> Man, I don't care what you say. You don't matter.
> Your type is well documented.


Rationalization's great, isn't it?


----------



## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Pierce just cuz he seems to go all out for 4 quarters a game, 82 games a night, even if he often does shoot 30 percent....

vince seems to only be a one quarter player for the most part....he seems to only want to show up either in the 1st or the 4th quarter, hardly ever the whole game....he may be the more talented player, but he hasnt been able to mature and tap fully into that talent....


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>monkeyman44</b>!
> VC, because he can put a lot more butts into an arena
> 
> The NBA is a business and butt-filled arenas are good if you're starting a team


Good thing Larry Bird wasn't a high flier.

No, wait, nevermind.


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Carter has had his playoffs ups and downs. Like most players. He doesn't possess some exceptional ability to elevate in the playoffs.


Here's another person that hasn't saw Vince play before. You can say that in reference to his regular season performance, because he *does* possess the poise and determination to play at top form in the playoffs.


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

Just for amusement, lastla......errr........24-7, I counted the score to be:

Pierce - 14
Carter - 11

Now, that may be a bit off, as some of the posts were a little vague, and I counted them in my head in a rush. However, I noticed that most of the people who said Carter either:

A) Used a simple-minded excuse that Pierce is "shelfish" to back their claim

B) Said they'd take VC because he's more entertaining

C) Said they'd take VC if he's *healthy*

So, I guess the majority *has* spoken.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Here's another person that hasn't saw Vince play before. You can say that in reference to his regular season performance, because he *does* possess the poise and determination to play at top form in the playoffs.


I dont think you are correct in that statement because he gave you a specific series in which Vince hadnt stepped it up and McGrady had. So where are you coming from with that?


----------



## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

If we have to consider VC's injury history then I counter with his immense popularity. Despite his lack of a nearly complete season he was the number one vote getter in the All-Star game. Pierce, umm not even close. As an owner starting a new team choosing VC is the only rational choice.

Buuut, that's kind of a dumb discussion which why I assumed we we would talk about a just a raw comparison of their play rather than taking extraneous stuff into account.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MongolianDeathCloud</b>!
> If we have to consider VC's injury history then I counter with his immense popularity. Despite his lack of a nearly complete season he was the number one vote getter in the All-Star game. Pierce, umm not even close. As an owner starting a new team choosing VC is the only rational choice.
> 
> Buuut, that's kind of a dumb discussion which why I assumed we we would talk about a just a raw comparison of their play rather than taking extraneous stuff into account.


You right, but when you are talking about raw comparisons his injury history has to come into account. Popularity has nothing to do with it


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Here's another person that hasn't saw Vince play before. You can say that in reference to his regular season performance, because he *does* possess the poise and determination to play at top form in the playoffs.


Please, for once, back it up with some real numbers. I want to see numbers from actual games, not some BS about how everyone who says a single anti-Vince comment hasn't seen him play.


----------



## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

I'd take Pierce easily. Pierce has been more consistent over his career, and has showcased more offensive skills and toughness, the guy was stabbed for crying outloud, and came back to be an NBA superstar. Hes also the most clutch player in the league, and averages more points, rebounds and assists then Carter. This is no contest, the Vince bandwagon is making this look a whole lot closer than it is.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I was at Fatso's bar in downtown Lawrence the night before Pierce was stabbed a few years ago. Paul was awesome -- bought people drinks, singed autographs, talked to anybody who came up to himk, gave hi-fives to everybody...he's just a good guy. I freaked out when I saw on the news he was stabbed the very next day. Really, I was like this guy was just here having a good time with his buds at Kansas, and then some jackass stabs his ***. And when he got right up and didn't let that him affect, him, that just solidified my view of him as a beast of a competitor.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Let's not go *too* far in annointing Carter the great playoff saviour.
> 
> Do Vince Carter fans remember McGrady's final year in Toronto, when the Raptors made the playoffs, faced the Knicks and Carter was nearly invisible? McGrady was the only one keeping the Raptors afloat in those games. The Raptors were swept in three extremely close games...games that Carter could have easily swung by playing well.
> ...



This is one of the worst posts in my opinion. And do any of the T-mac lovers remember Alvin Williams stepped up his play like what T-mac for the team the following next year? Alvin was getting his 18/6/5 thing to compliment the tripple teams Carter created for the team???

T-mac was left single coverage all the time, and Vince was tripple teamed once he touched the ball, didnt matter if Carter was in scoring position or not, now I have another question for you, why couldnt T-mac win the series for us when he was left single coverage, wasnt he supposed to be better than Vince? And I feel annoyed when T-Mac is only related to the term "He kep the team close" but not "he won the series"

LMAO is LMAO!


----------



## SavSicc (Feb 26, 2004)

*Paul Pierce got stab by benzino henchmen*

although benzino deny it. And his henchmen wasn't guilty. So who stab paul pierce. Did you watch Beyond the Glory? On Fox Sport Net. The story Goes. Paul was Kickin with tony batie, and tonys older brother. Paul was muggin on some chick. Then He got hit with a beer bottle. Before he knew he got stick up'd. He could of died? The Celtics must have a curse or somthing for winning 16 chapionships. NO Wonder Danny ainge trade tony coward azz battie. He just ran off and did nothing until. Them convicts jetted out. Then he came back and pretend like he's the hero.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> Here's another person that hasn't saw Vince play before. You can say that in reference to his regular season performance, because he *does* possess the poise and determination to play at top form in the playoffs.


Yeah, and if you actually had a gram of evidence or reasoning to your post beyond, "Anyone who doesn't worship Carter with me hasn't watched him play," your argument might be compelling.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> now I have another question for you, why couldnt T-mac win the series for us when he was left single coverage, wasnt he supposed to be better than Vince?


No, he wasn't supposed to be better than Vince. Carter was "supposed" to be a superstar, while McGrady was still a developing prospect.



> LMAO is LMAO!


At least you don't wish to punch me.  Your mocking laughter is even more damaging, however.......

Though your quaint "John touch" to the lingo has me chuckling, too.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I also talked with Pierce a year after he was stabbed. Showed me the scars. Said he was going to use them as motivating tools, and that "the (explitive) people who got away won't try it again in the future, 'cause they see how a dead man can rise". I thought that was pretty awesome.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> I also talked with Pierce a year after he was stabbed. Showed me the scars. Said he was going to use them as motivating tools, and that "the (explitive) people who got away won't try it again in the future, 'cause they see how a dead man can rise". I thought that was pretty awesome.


Good for him, I respect him as a person but I just hate his attitude and plas on court, teah that lead to his body shape bothering me.

I am not questioning Pierce's heart or anything. But VC is just a step above Pierce.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> No, he wasn't supposed to be better than Vince. Carter was "supposed" to be a superstar, while McGrady was still a developing prospect.
> ...



Sorry, it was a bit of emotional reponse. But all I want to imply is that yeah, another guy is going to step up, Alvin did also step up for what T-mac did for us when the defense was clearly focus on Vince. But dont get me wong, I know T-Mac is way better than Alvin is/was now, but back then, in the playoff series alone, they were pretty much even in terms of scoring in single coverage. But imo, Alvin was even more clutch than T-Mac, I still remember that shot Alvin made to ice the game when 2 or 4 guys helping out on Vince and the ball was swung around to Alvin for an open jumper, well, I should say a slower reacted Knicks team affected by the precense of Vince because they were a great defensive team back then.

But I still give credit for Alvin and T-mac for DOING WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO AS A SUPPORTING CAST BACK THEN!


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> Sorry, it was a bit of emotional reponse.


No problem.



> But all I want to imply is that yeah, another guy is going to step up, Alvin did also step up for what T-mac did for us when the defense was clearly focus on Vince. But dont get me wong, I know T-Mac is way better than Alvin is/was now, but back then, in the playoff series alone, they were pretty much even in terms of scoring in single coverage.


That's fine. But my point was not to compare McGrady to Carter or to assess McGrady's playoff abilities. My point was that Carter *wasn't* big in that series.

But you do make a good point about the focus being on Carter. I agree that that would make things tougher for him. I'm simply surprised he didn't really make an impact in any of those games.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

From a business/marketing standpoint, Vince.

From a perspective of getting the better basketball player, Pierce.


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont think you are correct in that statement because he gave you a specific series in which Vince hadnt stepped it up and McGrady had. So where are you coming from with that?


So you're saying Tracy has always been a better player than Vince in the playoffs? 
A few bad playoff games doesn't overcome the fact that you consistently played at top form in the 2001 playoffs.


----------



## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> From a business/marketing standpoint, Vince.
> 
> From a perspective of getting the better basketball player, Pierce.


Winning is good marketing too. Look at all the Laker fans out there. 

I'd take the Truth because IMO (and the numbers show) he's just more of a basketball player than VC, not just a highlight reel.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> So you're saying Tracy has always been a better player than Vince in the playoffs?
> A few bad playoff games doesn't overcome the fact that you consistently played at top form in the 2001 playoffs.


Please read the conversation as follows



> > Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> > Carter has had his playoffs ups and downs. Like most players. He doesn't possess some exceptional ability to elevate in the playoffs.
> 
> 
> ...


He spoke on one specific series, you said hes another person that has never watched Vince play. I responded to you by saying he brought up a specific series when Tmac was in Toronto so that null and voided your statement.


----------



## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

I have just reported you to the moderators. I have had enough of your bs and I was told that if you started it again that I was to contact a moderator.
Don't bring me into your obsession with Paul Pierce. It's pathtic that anyone can't have a disagreeing opinion of him or they get attacked by you.
24-7 is allowed an opinion and doesn't deserve to be harassed because you can't handle a message board.






> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> I was on the Celtic board today finishing a pointless debate with your alter-ego. I made a reply that you (lastlaugh) contorted to fit your agenda.
> ...


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> I have just reported you to the moderators. I have had enough of your bs and I was told that if you started it again that I was to contact a moderator.
> Don't bring me into your obsession with Paul Pierce. It's pathtic that anyone can't have a disagreeing opinion of him or they get attacked by you.
> 24-7 is allowed an opinion and doesn't deserve to be harassed because you can't handle a message board.


Seriously, are you stalking me? I virtually never see you post in the NBA forum, yet you happen to stumble in on this one despite the "fact" that you're not 24-7.

btw, checky you PM's buddy


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> Good for him, I respect him as a person but I just hate his attitude and plas on court, teah that lead to his body shape bothering me.
> 
> I am not questioning Pierce's heart or anything. But VC is just a step above Pierce.


I can understand you not liking his attitude. And PP is sometimes selfish on the court. If those are the plays you don't like that he makes on the court, where he ballhogs, then how can you like Vince and just about all the other superstar wing players?

Sorry but I see nothing that shows VC is a step above Pierce...Maybe you are talking about hops, dunking, and injury proneness? Pierce has a better shot, is a better defender, is equally adept at the drive (in fact, he's more willing than Vince to take it all the way), gets to the line more, is dominant in the 4th quarter, and an equally good passer. You might not like his attitude, but he's a leader. Otherwise he wouldn't be calling out his teammates.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Somewhere back before this thread deteriorated into personal attacks between posters (as way too many threads seem to around here) who are supposed to be here to enhance their knowledge and that of their peers, we had an intelligent comparison of two players who are ultimately EXTREMELY similar in ability, playoff success, leadership, and stats.

If we are talking about on the floor abilities, the first item on the agenda must be that Pierce is great in the 4th quarter. He has more free throws in fourth quarters than any other player in the league year in and year out. In the Pierce-and-Walker era he brought his team back from major deficits on a regular basis in crunch time. He has shown that his skills do translate to the playoffs. His leadership is dwarfed by that of his former running mate Antoine Walker, but he does still sufficiently motivate his team when he needs to get it done. I’ve seen guys like Eric Williams, JR Bremer, Kenny Anderson, Tony Battie, and Walter McCarty take their games to brand new places when Pierce is playing at his best. He makes his teammates better while getting his.

As far as Vince is concerned, there is a reason why true Toronto fans know the meaning of the nickname “4th quarter Carter.” The man is an absolute assassin in the final 12 minutes. He elevates his game to new heights, but his teammates have never responded the way Pierce’s did. When Carter works his magic in the 4th, no one cuts or knocks down 3’s regularly. The only guys who ever seemed to want to play with him were Mo Pete and Jerome Williams. The only problem was that JYD can not score and Mo Pete plays lackluster defense. If VC played with the consummate league professionals that Paul has been surrounded with for much of his time in Boston, his legacy would be unmatched.

When considering impact on a franchise, Pierce has done his thing. He has been embraced by a group of fans that are largely inaccessible to most would-be stars. Pierce has been anointed Bird’s successor and the future in Boston. He came into a franchise with a storied history and left his distinct mark on an era in Boston.

Carter is the most popular player in the game. No one can deny the 4-time leading vote-getter his just do when it comes to bringing in the fans. Vince came into a different situation than Pierce. Vince embraced a burgeoning franchise who had never sniffed a superstar in its short history and made it his own. For better or worse the Toronto Raptors and Vince Carter will not be thought of as separate for a long time. 

At this point in their respective careers neither has won a championship. Both have taken over a city. Both put up numbers. Both aspire to greatness. If neither guy played another game, I don’t see how one is really that much better than the other either way. Only the future can really decide this debate as far as I am concerned.


----------



## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

Excellent post, well said.


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RollWithEm</b>!
> As far as Vince is concerned, there is a reason why true Toronto fans know the meaning of the nickname “4th quarter Carter.” The man is an absolute assassin in the final 12 minutes. He elevates his game to new heights, but his teammates have never responded the way Pierce’s did. When Carter works his magic in the 4th, no one cuts or knocks down 3’s regularly. The only guys who ever seemed to want to play with him were Mo Pete and Jerome Williams. The only problem was that JYD can not score and Mo Pete plays lackluster defense. If VC played with the consummate league professionals that Paul has been surrounded with for much of his time in Boston, his legacy would be unmatched.


Good post RollWithEm. But I have to point out some things. I disagree for one, that he's become an "assassin" in the final 12 minutes. He's good in the 4th, but not at the level PP is at. I could go through a bunch of the games, but I'm too lazy to do it right now. But check out the complete Play-by-Play of the recent Bulls vs Raptors game. So who was it that turned the ball over? You can also look at more games from more of the beginning of the year...and Vince missed a few potential game winning shots.

BTW, Mo Pete is probably the Raps' best wing defender (unless you count Alvin Williams). The problem with him is consistency, or the lack of on offense.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RollWithEm</b>!
> 
> At this point in their respective careers neither has won a championship. Both have taken over a city. Both put up numbers. Both aspire to greatness. If neither guy played another game, I don’t see how one is really that much better than the other either way. Only the future can really decide this debate as far as I am concerned.


From a pure talent perspective, you may be right. But are we not to consider reality factors, like durability? The fact that Carter seems prone to missing large parts of the season, and Pierce is not, tilts the "value" comparison steeply in Pierce's direction.

In the end, value is what matters. Carter could be twice as good as Jordan, but it doesn't matter a whit when he's on the bench in a suit. The fact is that Carter and Pierce are fairly similarly talented...close enough that Carter's value is nothing like Pierce's due to all his missed time.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Attention posters in this thread. Please stop the name calling and poster bashing. It will not be tolerated. Also there are posters in this thread using multiple names to argue against posters, we dont allow it and it is against site policy and can or will lead up to suspension. The posters who are in this thread making great points for or against shouldnt have to ween through the nonsense.

Thanks in advance

Beez*

NOW Paul Pierce is better


----------



## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Also there are posters in this thread using multiple names to argue against posters


:laugh:.....I wonder who that could be.


----------



## crimsonice (Feb 27, 2003)

I've watched them both play many times, and if I had to pick one... I think I would pick Vince.

They are both great players, and weighing their positives and negatives, I think they are fairly even at this point. It's just that I feel Pierce has reached his ceiling, but Vince still has a ways to go to tap all of his potential. Now he might not get there, but the possibility is still there.

If I really could, I would take Pierce for the regular season and Vince for the playoffs... that would be ideal...


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

I cant believe some true fans cant tell how Pierce needs certain set plays to be effective while Carter would pretty much fit in any of the system in the NBA. He can work without the ball, he can play in highpost, he can shoot the 3, he can take the ball to the hoop from the top of the key.

I read some mentioned that teams are supposed to run set plays for their best player. But my respective is not to judge how good a player is under what situation. My judgement on the players is if he is capable of winning a championship as a first and main scoring option.

Celtics hided Pierce's lack of offensive scoring repitore, and that's why he was being tripple team in the highpost in the playoffs because teams know that he has to be in that area to be a scoring threat against playoff defenders which make life alot easier to defender the role players because no other way Pierce could make his teammates better. 

On the other hand, Vince in Game 7 against Iverson was creating plays for different players in different situations by getting to the hoop at the top of the key. He isnt forcing a certain player to hit shots 5-10 times to win the game for the team, but he created plays in different situations.....

Lunch is over, will be back soon.


----------



## bades1313 (Feb 10, 2004)

Pierce hands down.


424 > 360


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i believe that he would have had more success than pierce with the current (and past) celtics teams but obviously the Raptors would have preferred PP last season. 

i consider carter the better playmaker/passer of the two. despite double or triple coverage he has been abusing defenses with great passing this season, getting into the lane and getting teammates very easy shots (which they usually struggle with unfortunately) or assisting the assist. 

although it's very close, i'd choose carter as the better shooter. Toronto's offense doesn't get him many easy looks, inside or out but he's still shooting a very good percentage. if he looked for his own easy offense (ie pulling up for 3s) he'd be putting up top scoring (24+ ppg) without decreasing his percentages. 

pierce has a size advantage, is more durable, is better at drawing contact and getting to the line (due to some extent to the previous two), and is the better rebounder. 

it's as close as it can get between these two players. consistency and winning will determine who is valued as better in the long run.


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> I cant believe some true fans cant tell how Pierce needs certain set plays to be effective while


I highly disagree with that statement. That's all I'm going to say, because neither one of us can prove anything. And in the end it'll turn out to be a "How many games have you watched thing?" So I'm happy you've developed your opinion, but I'm also happy with mine .



> i consider carter the better playmaker/passer of the two. despite double or triple coverage he has been abusing defenses with great passing this season, getting into the lane and getting teammates very easy shots (which they usually struggle with unfortunately) or assisting the assist.


PP can do everything you've listed there.



> although it's very close, i'd choose carter as the better shooter. Toronto's offense doesn't get him many easy looks, inside or out but he's still shooting a very good percentage. if he looked for his own easy offense (ie pulling up for 3s) he'd be putting up top scoring (24+ ppg) without decreasing his percentages.


Again I disagree with you, and because this is strictly opinion and I don't want to start a flame war, I won't argue much. Just that I have seen PP hit so many more tough shots than Vince.



> pierce has a size advantage, is more durable, is better at drawing contact and getting to the line (due to some extent to the previous two), and is the better rebounder.


PP is bigger than VC?


----------



## bades1313 (Feb 10, 2004)

Does no one here remember when Pierce brought the C's back from down by 20 something points during the 4th quarter in the Conference Finals all by himself? He was constantly getting double teamed and he kept going to the hole! For those who need their memory refreshed, this happened right after Antoine Walker made Pierce his ***** on the bench. Comedy Gold.


----------

