# Greatest pure physical specimen to ever step foot on a basketball court.



## EGarrett (Aug 12, 2002)

For the purposes of this thread, we'll leave personalities, intelligence, mental toughness and things like that out of it. Assume the same brain is put into each of the following bodies.

Dwight Howard?
Shaq?
Kevin Garnett?
Ralph Sampson?
David Robinson?
Wilt Chamberlain?
Yao Ming?
Bradley/Bol/Muresan?


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## Skylaars (Apr 2, 2003)

dwight howard


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Shaq. i never saw a 7 footer move as quick as he does.
Hakeem was the specimen until Shaq came along.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

O'neal, too bad he was chronically lazy.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)




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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Wilt Chamberlain and it isn't even close.

For a non big man I'd go with Jordan or Carter.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

EGarrett said:


> For the purposes of this thread, we'll leave personalities, intelligence, mental toughness and things like that out of it. Assume the same brain is put into each of the following bodies.
> 
> Dwight Howard?
> Shaq?
> ...


you forgot this guy!










http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Ming_Ming


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

JoeD said:


> Wilt Chamberlain and it isn't even close.
> 
> For a non big man I'd go with Jordan or Carter.


:lol: @ Carter's name being mentioned here.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Theonee said:


> :lol: @ Carter's name being mentioned here.


:lol: @ your shameless hate. 

You're right though, Carter was never very athletic.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I'd have to go with Shaq


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## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)




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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Have to go with Wilt. He made everyone look like D-leaguers during his days.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Gio305 said:


> you forgot this guy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is he the tallest man in Korea.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

Theonee said:


> Is he the tallest man in Korea.


i dunno, but hes taller than Yao--7'9, and weighs more than Shaq--350-375


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

Shaq, far and away. Look at clips of him in his Magic and LSU years, you have never seen a 300 pound man move like that.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

Shaq easily.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Gio305 said:


> i dunno, but hes taller than Yao--7'9, and weighs more than Shaq--350-375


Doesn't mean he's a great basketball specimen. He probably has no athleticism, that's what happens to most really tall people. That's what made Shaq so special, he was getting into the freakishly tall territory and didn't sacrifice any athleticism for it.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

Mateo said:


> Doesn't mean he's a great basketball specimen. He probably has no athleticism, that's what happens to most really tall people. That's what made Shaq so special, he was getting into the freakishly tall territory and didn't sacrifice any athleticism for it.


well, the main title does say "ever step foot in a basketball court", or did i just take too literally? lol

but kidding aside def Shaq


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

The question is too vague.

In terms of appearance, it's a tie between Dwight Howard and D-Rob.

In terms of effectiveness for basketball, it's Shaq.

In terms of athleticism, it's Nate Robinson.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

mysterio said:


> The question is too vague.
> 
> In terms of appearance, it's a tie between Dwight Howard and D-Rob.
> 
> ...


Wow, that was really out of left-field.


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## EGarrett (Aug 12, 2002)

mysterio said:


> The question is too vague.
> 
> In terms of appearance, it's a tie between Dwight Howard and D-Rob.
> 
> ...


It seems pretty clear to me. In terms of effectiveness for basketball. Why would I make a thread about the best-looking guy?


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

Brandname said:


> Wow, that was really out of left-field.


He's a world-class athlete. I wouldn't bet on anyone in the NBA to beat him in a 100 meter sprint.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

mysterio said:


> The question is too vague.
> 
> In terms of appearance, it's a tie between Dwight Howard and D-Rob.
> 
> ...


how about all-around?


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

EGarrett said:


> It seems pretty clear to me. In terms of effectiveness for basketball. Why would I make a thread about the best-looking guy?


fine.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

Gio305 said:


> how about all-around?


I'd go with Dwight Howard because he bangs like a young Shaq and I don't think D-Rob could hit his head on the rim.


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## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

When you say pure specimen are we just talking about size, strength and athleticism here?

or does coordination, great hands, foot work, timing coming into play?


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## Scuall (Jul 25, 2002)

Samael said:


> When you say pure specimen are we just talking about size, strength and athleticism here?
> 
> or does *coordination, great hands, foot work, timing* coming into play?


Throwin in Lew Alcindor's talents...


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

wilt, shaq, and dwight are all good picks.
dwight is bigger and looks more explosive than hakeem. dwight is probably a better raw physical specimen


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

Shaquille O'Neal.


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## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

Scuall said:


> Throwin in Lew Alcindor's talents...


Your right, the reason I said that coordination, great hands, foot work, timing should be considered is because there are a lot of bigs out there that are strong, athlethic and big but don't have the proper coordination, great hands, foot work or timing to take advantage of their other size, strength and athleticism. Take Diop and Stromile for example they have size and athleticism but they have no other skill set to compliment those things.

So if all thing considered size, strength, athleticism, coordination, great hands and foot work. My list would be Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Wilt rather easily. Due to his conditioning, Shaq is too injury prone and that has to take away from him being the greatest pure physical specimen to ever step foot on a basketball court.


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## Petrucci (Feb 12, 2006)

It has to be Dwight Howard hands down. To be as big AND jumping like that... It´s insane. When somebody with a body like that with someone like Dirks skills, then someone will surpass MJs greatness. It´s gonna happen sooner or later


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Samael said:


> Your right, the reason I said that coordination, great hands, foot work, timing should be considered is because there are a lot of bigs out there that are strong, athlethic and big but don't have the proper coordination, great hands, foot work or timing to take advantage of their other size, strength and athleticism. Take Diop and Stromile for example they have size and athleticism but they have no other skill set to compliment those things.
> 
> So if all thing considered size, strength, athleticism, coordination, great hands and foot work. My list would be Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt


but if we are talking about a physical specimen, i wouldnt take weight great hands and feet with size or athleticism. hakeem had great foot work and hands largely because of the time he spend playing soccer and handball


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Toss up between Shaq and Yao, but I gave it to Shaq. A 7'2" 300lb man is not supposed to be as agile. Yao is the only 7'6"+ dude to ever move so fluid and graceful. Guys like Bradley, Bol, and Muresan seemed as if they didn't know how to control their bodies.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

David Robinson is getting no love.

Dude was the most ripped of anybody in the history of the league, and he had some of the best footwork and hands ever!

If needed, he could do anything on the court. The Admiral owned the league the way that Jar Jar Binks owned Naboo after the invasion of the Droid Army...only with greater respect.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Here's your Shaq:










The arms don't lie:










An Admiral in Training:










Sweetest jumper of all big men:










Or maybe it's Uwe Blab?


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## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

I think it has to be between Shaq or Wilt. Who you pick is probably determined by your opinion on Era's.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

Karl Malone is not in this list? Wowsers.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

JoeD said:


> Wilt Chamberlain and it isn't even close.
> 
> For a non big man I'd go with Jordan or Carter.


Exactomundo.... If you don't think Wilt would absolutely eat Dwight alive with a side of Kevin Garnett then you don't know basketball. Chamberlain was an ox.

David Robinson is 2nd on that list imo.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I'd go with Wilt or Robinson. Robinson isn't getting enough mention, IMO. He was stacked, tall, extremely quick and athletic and extremely skilled. If anyone was "made" to play basketball, it was Robinson. He was tall without being either freakishly thin (leading to center of gravity issues) or so wide that his quickness was compromised or had constant foot problems. He could also do everything on the court. He was basically Kevin Garnett with a Herculean build.


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## RunningWings (Jun 9, 2005)

I don't know if this really fits into the physical specimen category, but Kevin Garnett is something amazing. The things he can do on the court at 7 feet is pretty ridiculous. He's the most athletic 7-footer I've ever seen. He can do things on the court that people a foot shorter can't do, but I feel that before is all is said and done Kevin Durant will be able to do things in the NBA that we've never seen before. He's 6'9" and has a better face-up game than a ton of guards. He's going to amaze people.


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## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

Shaq. He dominated from his first game.


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## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

Wilt, not even close.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

How many people saying Wilt and not even close actually saw or has seen Wilt play? 

I think you're sadly mistaken if you don't think you could throw Shaq or a guy like Dwight back into that era and they be as physically dominant. With Shaq, even moreso.

I think the answer is Shaq and without doubt. For a guy in his prime to be 310-315lbs, very good body fat %, and be as mobile and athletic. It could be 50 years before we see another physical specimen like that. Look at how much of a physical monster Dwight is and now add *40 more pounds* without losing much athleticism.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Petrucci said:


> It has to be Dwight Howard hands down. To be as big AND jumping like that... It´s insane. When somebody with a body like that with someone like Dirks skills, then someone will surpass MJs greatness. It´s gonna happen sooner or later


Shaq's bigger (both taller and wider shoulders) and was just as good a jumper.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

Mateo said:


> Shaq's bigger (both taller and wider shoulders) and was just as good a jumper.


I don't think Shaq could jump higher than Dwight can now. Shaq has a thicker trunk, but I don't think he has as wide of shoulders as Dwight.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Mateo said:


> Shaq's bigger (both taller and wider shoulders) and was just as good a jumper.


Shaq was/is bigger, wider, and stronger ... but Shaq couldn't get up like Dwight can. For his size it was amazing how high he could get up ... but not like Dwight can.


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## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

darth-horax said:


> Here's your Shaq:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if that's ur arguement Karl Malone should be mentioned as well

















over 40


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

hmm... it has to be either Shaq or Wilt.


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## dubc15 (May 15, 2004)

DWIGHT and shaq


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)




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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

There have been a lot of good mentions so far. Mostly big men. 

I never saw Wilt play, but I understand he has some (officially recorded) track times from college that were mighty impressive. If the rumors of his strength are even halfway true, he could be the greatest physical specimen ever. I never watched him play save for some video clips, so I'm not sure.

In the modern era, I would say David Robinson and LSU Shaq are up at the top. Shaq had the incredible quickness for his size, and Robinson is pretty much a sculpture crafted by Michaelangelo. Except even more chiseled. 

You can't go wrong with any of these guys. Karl Malone, too.


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## Nate505 (Aug 22, 2003)

Karl Malone for sure....the man was built like a tank, never got hurt, and had something like 2-3% body fat.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

A young Karl Malone had one of the most perfect physiques ever.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The best in terms of pure physical ability I've seen is Shaq. A guy with that size with explosion and agility is stunning.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

JNice said:


> How many people saying Wilt and not even close actually saw or has seen Wilt play?
> 
> I think you're sadly mistaken if you don't think you could throw Shaq or a guy like Dwight back into that era and they be as physically dominant. With Shaq, even moreso.
> 
> I think the answer is Shaq and without doubt. For a guy in his prime to be 310-315lbs, very good body fat %, and be as mobile and athletic. It could be 50 years before we see another physical specimen like that. Look at how much of a physical monster Dwight is and now add *40 more pounds* without losing much athleticism.


This is ridiculous. 

At the University of Kansas, Wilt was recorded as benching 550. There is also a chat transcript from a few years before his death where he says he could STILL bench 465. That is more than Shaq ever did at any point in his career. Shaq said he did 430. Last year, Dwight Howard benched 270 lbs (I can find a dozen people at my gym who bench that).

Then if you go to speed, Wilt was a track and field star. If I recall right, he even qualified at some olympic trials but never followed through with it. In wikipedia it says "As a youth, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, and broad jumped 22 feet". 

So there you go. Way stronger, way faster, and a better jumper. Better hands too, probably, because he had a light touch.

It just isn't even REMOTELY close.

edit: by the way, in the first page, can the guy who put the DRob pictures take them down? They mess up the window.


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## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

JoeD said:


> At the University of Kansas, Wilt was recorded as benching 550. There is also a chat transcript from a few years before his death where he says he could STILL bench 465. That is more than Shaq ever did at any point in his career. Shaq said he did 430. Last year, Dwight Howard benched 270 lbs (I can find a dozen people at my gym who bench that).
> 
> Then if you go to speed, Wilt was a track and field star. If I recall right, he even qualified at some olympic trials but never followed through with it. In wikipedia it says "As a youth, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, and broad jumped 22 feet".
> 
> ...


pwned. 

how many people named jnice have no clue what they're talking about?


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

JoeD said:


> This is ridiculous.
> 
> At the University of Kansas, Wilt was recorded as benching 550. There is also a chat transcript from a few years before his death where he says he could STILL bench 465. That is more than Shaq ever did at any point in his career. Shaq said he did 430. Last year, Dwight Howard benched 270 lbs (I can find a dozen people at my gym who bench that).
> 
> ...


dont ever quote wikipedia. they have a tendency to be wrong sometimes because any users can change whats in the articles.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

DuMa said:


> dont ever quote wikipedia. they have a tendency to be wrong sometimes because any users can change whats in the articles.


You can find the same stuff anywhere else. I don't know the exact track numbers off hand but the college bench press number was at least correct. His track and field ability is also well known, others even brought it up in the thread before me. These things are facts.

here is the url of a google search of wilt chamberlain bench press
wilt 's bench press
You don't even need to click the link, you can just read it from the search area from multiple sources. It even shows Dwight saying he benches 275 in the first four results.


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## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

JoeD said:


> So there you go. Way stronger, way faster, and a better jumper. *Better hands too, probably, because he had a light touch.*
> 
> It just isn't even REMOTELY close.


I think Shaq has better hands than Wilt. Shaq shot at the freethrow line better but they were both bums at the freethrow line though.:lol:


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## afireinside (Jan 8, 2004)

LeBron James. He came into the league at the age of 18 with the most mature body I've ever seen for a wing player at his age. He was a man among boys in high school.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

Ralhp Sampson because he was tall strong and atheletic.

Shaq was not as tall or as atheletic as Ralph so he beats Shaq 2 to 1.

Though it is a bit wierd that Im voting for someone as thbest specimen when he was forced out of the gamer through injuries.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

hroz said:


> Ralhp Sampson because he was tall strong and atheletic.
> 
> Shaq was not as tall or as atheletic as Ralph so he beats Shaq 2 to 1.
> 
> Though it is a bit wierd that Im voting for someone as thbest specimen when he was forced out of the gamer through injuries.


you're also voting for someone who was physically pushed around. ralph didn't have anywhere near the strength of these guys. he also didn't have long arms, so he didn't play anywhere near his height.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

JoeD said:


> You can find the same stuff anywhere else. I don't know the exact track numbers off hand but the college bench press number was at least correct. His track and field ability is also well known, others even brought it up in the thread before me. These things are facts.
> 
> here is the url of a google search of wilt chamberlain bench press
> wilt 's bench press
> You don't even need to click the link, you can just read it from the search area from multiple sources. It even shows Dwight saying he benches 275 in the first four results.


there's simply no way wilt benched 550 lbs at kansas. take it with a grain of salt, as right below it says he had a vert of 48-50 inches. neither are even remotely potentially true.

dhoward can, today, i guarantee you, bench ALOT more than 275. he could probably shoulder press 275.

wilt was strong as hell, naturally stronger than just about anyone ever. it's hard to separate fact with fiction with some of the claims about wilt. i have no problem putting him at #1 here.


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## RunningWings (Jun 9, 2005)

Anyone else think Charles Barkley should get a mention here? The way he's physically put together is, you have to admit, rather interesting. I don't know anyone that you can compare him to. He was an undersized, overweight power forward that had great speed, could jump out of a building, had a low-post game to go along with an adequate jump and three-point shot. And he destroyed Dick Bavetta in a sprint at the ripe age of 44, while weighing in at well over 300 pounds. Just think of what a great athlete (not that he isn't already) he would've been if he would've lost a few pounds and sculpted his body. It's likely he would've been even more dominant.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

My team, going for a blend of physique, athleticism, and actual performance on the court, is as follows:

*First Team:*

Wilt Chamberlain
Karl Malone
Julius Erving
Michael Jordan
Oscar Robertson

*Second Team:*

Shaquille O'Neal
Shawn Kemp
Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Magic Johnson


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Larry Bird :biggrin:


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

i'll add a name i usually don't add in these all-time discussions. arvydas sabonis. he was 7'3, athletic and wide.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

FWIW, there was an article about Shaq after the Magic lost the finals and it said that summer he brought his bench up from 225 to 375.

No one can improve their max 150 lbs in 3 months. To me the moral of that story was that you can't accurately judge someone's strength or physical impressiveness by their weightlifting numbers. The guy brought down 2 baskets his rookie year, and the one he messed up in Phoenix wasn't even on a power dunk. Regardless of what he does in the weight room, he is the most powerful player.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Burn said:


> FWIW, there was an article about Shaq after the Magic lost the finals and it said that summer he brought his bench up from 225 to 375.
> 
> No one can improve their max 150 lbs in 3 months. To me the moral of that story was that you can't accurately judge someone's strength or physical impressiveness by their weightlifting numbers. The guy brought down 2 baskets his rookie year, and the one he messed up in Phoenix wasn't even on a power dunk. Regardless of what he does in the weight room, he is the most powerful player.


good point - ben wallace, or karl malone, or even earl boykins benching more than shaq is pretty much irrelevant in terms of basketball strength. mass matters. lower body strength matters more than upper body strength.


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## Timbaland (Nov 18, 2005)

I'm surprised Lebron is not listed with his unbelievable combination of size and speed, and also his explosiveness. But anyhow, I think it would probably be Shaq because of how unique he is.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

kflo said:


> there's simply no way wilt benched 550 lbs at kansas. take it with a grain of salt, as right below it says he had a vert of 48-50 inches. neither are even remotely potentially true.
> 
> dhoward can, today, i guarantee you, bench ALOT more than 275. he could probably shoulder press 275.
> 
> wilt was strong as hell, naturally stronger than just about anyone ever. it's hard to separate fact with fiction with some of the claims about wilt. i have no problem putting him at #1 here.


You are arguing that the university of Kansas conspired with Wilt to record a fake bench press? And everyone who saw Wilt Benching around 500 lbs after that? I suppose he paid them off? How do you know this, with psychic powers? Is that also how you know Howard can now Bench over 275? The article was from this summer.
http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Ask_a_Player_QA_Archive-102332-66.html

His vertical probably wasn't measured properly, unless he was freakier than I even I thought, but his track and field numbers were recorded correctly, unless he got a bunch of people to fake those with him as well.


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

JoeD said:


> This is ridiculous.
> 
> At the University of Kansas, Wilt was recorded as benching 550. There is also a chat transcript from a few years before his death where he says he could STILL bench 465. That is more than Shaq ever did at any point in his career. Shaq said he did 430. Last year, Dwight Howard benched 270 lbs (I can find a dozen people at my gym who bench that).
> 
> ...


There's a reason why many of colleges are banning/have banned the use of Wikipedia as a valid works cited source.

Shaq's the greatest physical specimen I've ever seen. No one knows how accurate all the reports on Wilt are. If they're true then he's first by a mile, but none of us will ever be able to say for sure.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

JoeD said:


> You are arguing that the university of Kansas conspired with Wilt to record a fake bench press? And everyone who saw Wilt Benching around 500 lbs after that? I suppose he paid them off? How do you know this, with psychic powers? Is that also how you know Howard can now Bench over 275? The article was from this summer.
> http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Ask_a_Player_QA_Archive-102332-66.html
> 
> His vertical probably wasn't measured properly, unless he was freakier than I even I thought, but his track and field numbers were recorded correctly, unless he got a bunch of people to fake those with him as well.


where does the university of kansas record wilt's bench press? he was known for bench pressing after his retirement. celebrity wilt looking for post career validation.

and like wilt exaggerating his claims, i can guarantee you that dhoward's max bench press is greater than 275. 

here's an article from december that puts his bench around 400.



> He couldn't bench press 225 pounds as a rookie. Now he's bench-pressing around 400.


link

show me 1 clip that illustrates a supreme vertical leap from wilt. i haven't seen any. he was an incredible athlete, but the claims on his prowess are generally as much folk lore as truth.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

what is true is wilt's high jump and 440 times.


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

Shaq, Wilt or Sabonis all had amazing quickness and athleticism for their height.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

what is true is wilt's high jump and 440 times.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Karl Malone would take these slabs to school.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Kuskid said:


> There's a reason why many of colleges are banning/have banned the use of Wikipedia as a valid works cited source.
> 
> Shaq's the greatest physical specimen I've ever seen. No one knows how accurate all the reports on Wilt are. If they're true then he's first by a mile, but none of us will ever be able to say for sure.


I already responded to the issue of wikipedia... why are you bringing it up again? This information is available at a number of other places.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

I said Wilt, Shaq couldn't (or didn't) do this...



> In his early years, Chamberlain was an avid track and field athlete, posting up statistics like a decathlete. As a youth, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, and broad jumped 22 feet.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

kflo said:


> where does the university of kansas record wilt's bench press? he was known for bench pressing after his retirement. celebrity wilt looking for post career validation.
> 
> and like wilt exaggerating his claims, i can guarantee you that dhoward's max bench press is greater than 275.
> 
> ...


550 is a lot better than 400.

Also, the article you have is a lot less reliable than what I have posted. Dwight said he bench pressed 275 lbs this summer. The time of the article is 6 months later. He increased 125 lbs in 6 months? Wow. Seems weird he goes up to 400 in 6 months when after 2 years in the league he had only got up to 275.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

you can look at dhoward and it's obvious his bench is alot more than 275. where do you see a datestamp on the howard comment?

there's no substantiated account of wilt, that i know of, benching 550 as a player, or even later. it's legend. he could obviously bench alot, but 550 is folklore.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

kflo said:


> you can look at dhoward and it's obvious his bench is alot more than 275. where do you see a datestamp on the howard comment?
> 
> there's no substantiated account of wilt, that i know of, benching 550 as a player, or even later. it's legend. he could obviously bench alot, but 550 is folklore.


Howard's 275 comment was in a live chat that had JJ Redick, so it had to be after the draft this summer... As for looking at Howard and being able to tell that he can bench more than 275... That is horribly flawed reasoning and you probably would have said the same thing 6 months ago, since he looks the same.

You can search for Wilt's bench press on google and find a lot of sources saying what I just said. ESPN has said this as well in articles and documentaries about Wilt. 

I don't know under what reason you say it is a legend. Why couldn't a freak like Chambelain bench 550 when he was close to his athletic prime? Why would all these people go along with a lie? Is it that unbelievable when he was seen at _60 years old_ and benching around 500 that he couldn't do 50 lbs more when he was in his twenties??

What sounds like legend to me is someone taking 2 years to go from under 225 to 275, and then going to 400 in about 6 months.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

JNice said:


> How many people saying Wilt and not even close actually saw or has seen Wilt play?
> 
> I think you're sadly mistaken if you don't think you could throw Shaq or a guy like Dwight back into that era and they be as physically dominant. With Shaq, even moreso.
> 
> I think the answer is Shaq and without doubt. For a guy in his prime to be 310-315lbs, very good body fat %, and be as mobile and athletic. It could be 50 years before we see another physical specimen like that. Look at how much of a physical monster Dwight is and now add *40 more pounds* without losing much athleticism.


Throw prime Shaq back in that era and he would barely average 20 ppg imo. You're talking about the most dominant era of centers the NBA has ever seen. Dwight wouldn't even get off the bench on some teams :lol:


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Phenom Z28 said:


> Throw prime Shaq back in that era and he would barely average 20 ppg imo. *You're talking about the most dominant era of centers the NBA has ever seen.*


That's a new one.

Especially when the 1990s had Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo. In addition to other good centers like Arvydas Sabonis, Vlade Divac and Rik Smits.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

JoeD said:


> Howard's 275 comment was in a live chat that had JJ Redick, so it had to be after the draft this summer... As for looking at Howard and being able to tell that he can bench more than 275... That is horribly flawed reasoning and you probably would have said the same thing 6 months ago, since he looks the same.
> 
> You can search for Wilt's bench press on google and find a lot of sources saying what I just said. ESPN has said this as well in articles and documentaries about Wilt.
> 
> ...


that chat is an archive. it includes q&a with steve francis, cuttino mobley and others who haven't been on the team for a while. it's simply obvious by looking at howard that his bench press is far higher than 275. 

find me a legitimate source of wilt other than "he was seen". clearly, for most of his playing career, he wasn't capable of benching 500. 550 in kansas is a myth. not even close. pictures don't lie. later in life he took to lifting more, but 550 was relatively unheard of back then. he was a strong mofo, no question. but there's alot of myth around him, myth that he was more than willing to perpetuate.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Not only that, but goaltending was allowed back then. You can't compare different eras. Imagine Dikembe's block totals if he could goal tend.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> Not only that, but goaltending was allowed back then. You can't compare different eras. Imagine Dikembe's block totals if he could goal tend.


What are you talking about? They didn't allow goal tending when Wilt played, and either way, they didn't record blocking stats in that era.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

in the 70s and early 80s, 550 would have made you the strongest football player in the league. klecko and randy white were known for their bench press and strength, and they were around that #. and they didn't have these long arms to lift the weight.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

kflo said:


> that chat is an archive. it includes q&a with steve francis, cuttino mobley and others who haven't been on the team for a while. it's simply obvious by looking at howard that his bench press is far higher than 275.
> 
> find me a legitimate source of wilt other than "he was seen". clearly, for most of his playing career, he wasn't capable of benching 500. 550 in kansas is a myth. not even close. pictures don't lie. later in life he took to lifting more, but 550 was relatively unheard of back then. he was a strong mofo, no question. but there's alot of myth around him, myth that he was more than willing to perpetuate.


A legitimate source? Go watch the next espn replay of their documentary on him, or dig up their articles referencing the same thing I did, a 550 bench press at Kansas.

You apparently judge how strong someone is by looking at their body. For Dwight, you say he looks like he can bench way more than 275, but you have no evidence. For Chamberlain you say he looks like he couldn't bench press 550, and that is worth more than all the evidence.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

kflo said:


> in the 70s and early 80s, 550 would have made you the strongest football player in the league. klecko and randy white were known for their bench press and strength, and they were around that #. and they didn't have these long arms to lift the weight.


What is that supposed to prove...?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

kflo said:


> in the 70s and early 80s, 550 would have made you the strongest football player in the league. klecko and randy white were known for their bench press and strength, and they were around that #. and they didn't have these long arms to lift the weight.


Larry Allen has benched 700 pounds!!


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> That's a new one.
> 
> Especially when the 1990s had Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo. In addition to other good centers like Arvydas Sabonis, Vlade Divac and Rik Smits.


That's not a new one...it's common knowledge among people that know anything about basketball outside the era they're living in.

I mean if you wunna just name names and crap...Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wes Unseld and other "good" centers like Zelmo Beaty and Johnny Kerr. This was when the center position dominated the game...not just another position like it was in the 90's. You NEEDED a solid center to match up with Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell back in those days.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

JoeD said:


> What is that supposed to prove...?


The dude can't prove anything...that's why he keeps running his mouth. 

I mean if you think you can judge how much somebody can bench by just looking at them, you're an absolute grade-a moron. There's guys at my gym no more than 150 lbs that can outbench other built guys that weigh near 300. You just flat out can't judge by looking at somebody.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

JoeD said:


> A legitimate source? Go watch the next espn replay of their documentary on him, or dig up their articles referencing the same thing I did, a 550 bench press at Kansas.
> 
> You apparently judge how strong someone is by looking at their body. For Dwight, you say he looks like he can bench way more than 275, but you have no evidence. For Chamberlain you say he looks like he couldn't bench press 550, and that is worth more than all the evidence.





















now, that's the body of a strong kid, but not of someone capable of benching 550. and again, in the same article you refered to with the 550 bench, they had him at 48-50 inch vertical. it's simply a fabrication. 

i've never seen a single clip or picture with his head near the rim.










this is probably the best i've seen










not quite


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Phenom Z28 said:


> The dude can't prove anything...that's why he keeps running his mouth.
> 
> I mean if you think you can judge how much somebody can bench by just looking at them, you're an absolute grade-a moron. There's guys at my gym no more than 150 lbs that can outbench other built guys that weigh near 300. You just flat out can't judge by looking at somebody.


you absolutely can tell who can bench close to 500 lbs by looking at them in a tank top. it's absurd to think otherwise.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I'll go with Shaq followed by MJ. Shaq's speed/quickness/agility/strength/coordination/hops for a man his size never made any sense.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

I haven't read any posts prior. But all I have to say is Shaq. This isn't even open for discussion. No center his size has even come close to moving like him. He's won 4 rings barely trying. If he wouldve just put some work in he wouldve been known as a top 5 player of all time. I dont think you can put him in that class now.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Phenom Z28 said:


> That's not a new one...it's common knowledge among people that know anything about basketball outside the era they're living in.
> 
> I mean if you wunna just name names and crap...Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wes Unseld and other "good" centers like Zelmo Beaty and Johnny Kerr. This was when the center position dominated the game...not just another position like it was in the 90's. You NEEDED a solid center to match up with Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell back in those days.


kareem never played against russell or kerr. unseld overlapped russell 1 year. bellamy was a dog.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Gtown07 said:


> If he wouldve just put some work in he wouldve been known as a top 5 player of all time.


Too bad because he's now known as a Top 10 player of all time. I like how people criticize Shaq's work ethic as if he was this big underachiever. The man won 4 rings and has the 2nd best PER of all time behind MJ. He had a damn fine career and you don't achieve what he did w/o being a hard worker.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

kflo said:


> you absolutely can tell who can bench close to 500 lbs by looking at them in a tank top. it's absurd to think otherwise.


No, you really can't. Look at Boykins.

And as to you being unable to find pictures of Wilt touching his head near the rim, that is totally meaningless.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

i do think wilt is arguably the strongest player ever, and raw strength the strongest. shaq has more mass and overall bulk, which offsets some of wilts natural strength advantage. and wilt was an athletic freak. it's just the myths around wilt that i have a hard time with.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

JoeD said:


> No, you really can't. Look at Boykins.
> 
> And as to you being unable to find pictures of Wilt touching his head near the rim, that is totally meaningless.


boykins is a strong m-fer. and it's obvious by looking at him. he's thick, and he has big arms. same with nate robinson. it's not a huge mystery that these guys are strong, just because they're not 7' tall.

i'm saying i've never seen a picture or a single video that would even suggest a guy who has close to a 40 inch vertical.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

SPMJ said:


> Too bad because he's now known as a Top 10 player of all time. I like how people criticize Shaq's work ethic as if he was this big underachiever. The man won 4 rings and has the 2nd best PER of all time behind MJ. He had a damn fine career and you don't achieve what he did w/o being a hard worker.


I don't know how PER works, but it must be damn useless if Shaq has a higher per than Wilt. Wilt's stats blow Shaq's away.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

kflo said:


> boykins is a strong m-fer. and it's obvious by looking at him. he's thick, and he has big arms. same with nate robinson. it's not a huge mystery that these guys are strong, just because they're not 7' tall.
> 
> i'm saying i've never seen a picture or a single video that would even suggest a guy who has close to a 40 inch vertical.


Yeah, I'm not arguing the vertical with you. But you can look at his track and field stats, like the high jump.

His vertical was probably measured wrong. In pre-draft stats there are guys like Jordan Farmar who had a 43" vertical, they measure it differently. Who knows how Wilt's was done.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Bill Wennington


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## BucketDawg (Jun 30, 2006)

To me Wilt was the greatest physical specimen, the guy was a beast who could play with power, speed, and finesse. Its him then everyone else. Not that there haven't been other fantastic athletes, but to me he was the greatest. Shaq in his youth was impressive, as was Sabonis before his knee, achilles problems, and MJ, Lebron, Carter, etc. 

Here's a quote from a Wilt biography from Robert Cherry page 47:

"When we were freshmen, there were small towns that would ask the university to send some KU players out to put on a clinic," recalled Monte Johnson, a walk on member of the squad (and many years later the KU athletic director). "Four of us went to Emporia [Kansas]: Bob Billings, Lynn Kindred, myself, and Wilt. We put on an exhibition for the kids. One young man, in a question session, asked Wilt how high he could jump, taking only one step for a start. Wilt went back one step, kind of a long stretch back, and jumped up and put his finger over the top of the backboard and slid it back down. It was the most graceful move I've ever seen." John parker, the cocaptain of the Kansas squad, confirmed that he, too, saw Wilt touch the top of the backboard. (So, years later, would Al Domenico, the trainer of the Philadephia 76ers.)" (2004).

Btw, that biography was from "Wilt, Larger Than Life."


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Whoever names other than Wilt Chamberlain needs to read up.

Nice calls on D-Rob and Karl Malone, though.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Phenom Z28 said:


> That's not a new one...it's common knowledge among people that know anything about basketball outside the era they're living in.


Hardly. And counting Chamberlain and Russell in the same "era" as Abdul-Jabbar and Unseld is patently dishonest. Their primes didn't overlap. Russell was _gone_ before Abdul-Jabbar entered basketball and overlapped Unseld by one year. Reed was at the tail end of his career when Unseld and Abdul-Jabbar entered the scene and Chamberlain, Thurmond and Bellamy were past their primes. That's like me adding Abdul-Jabbar to the generation I mentioned.

Chamberlain, Russell, Reed, Bellamy and Thurmond are of a generation, but have only two of the top six centers ever, while the 1990s had three. Olajuwon, O'Neal and Robinson are better at the top-end than just Russell and Chamberlain (three historically elite centers compared to two) and Ewing, Mourning and Mutombo were better players than Reed, Bellamy and Thurmond.


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## Treeman (Aug 18, 2005)

Wilt Chamberlain played in a period where most of the Nba players were white and short. That's why he averaged so many points and rebounds and was even able to score 100 points. If you put Wilt Chamberlain in the present NBA, he would probably average 23 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 assists a game.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Treeman said:


> Wilt Chamberlain played in a period where most of the Nba players were white and short. That's why he averaged so many points and rebounds and was even able to score 100 points. If you put Wilt Chamberlain in the present NBA, he would probably average 23 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 assists a game.


You MUST be kidding me!


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

lol at whoever thought I got "pwned" ... give me a break. There is no question Wilt was a world class athlete. If you really think Wilt bench pressed 550lbs in college or had a 50 inch vertical you are very naive. I'm guessing you would believe he actually slept with 20,000 woman as well. And I don't care if ESPN has quoted those numbers. You believe everything that comes out of ESPN? They need to write stories and writing about a guy benching 550lbs reads great, regardless of whether or not it is true.

I absolutely believe you could stick a prime Shaq or even Dwight back in that era and they would be dominant. That is taking nothing away from guys like Wilt or Russel. Different eras. Players today are all bigger, stronger and faster than they have ever been.


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## BucketDawg (Jun 30, 2006)

Treeman said:


> Wilt Chamberlain played in a period where most of the Nba players were white and short. That's why he averaged so many points and rebounds and was even able to score 100 points. If you put Wilt Chamberlain in the present NBA, he would probably average 23 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 assists a game.


Huh? Wilt played in an era when fundamentals were essential and players actually played defense and put forth effort. And the fact that you say he would only average 2 assists shows you how you know nothing about Chamberlain. If you did you would know that he was the only center to lead the league in assists per game in NBA history, but yeah he would only average two assists in todays game. Give me a break.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Ramsay notes that Chamberlain was ahead of his time with his emphasis on strength training. Was Chamberlain stronger than Shaq in terms of basketball, not necessarily bench press strength, but in terms of holding his position, backing somebody down, using the strength in a basketball sense? Ramsay said, “I think probably Shaq (is stronger), because of his body mass. He is so wide and thick -- and very quick-footed, has great command of his feet. You'll see every so often, some of his spin moves, they're lightning quick. I don't think Wilt had that. Wilt was more methodical, worked the ball and the finger roll, back into the basket. It's hard to say how it would've come out, but it would've been a great matchup."
> 
> I asked Ramsay point blank who he would take between 'young Wilt' or 'young Shaq' if he were building a team around one guy rather than trying to fit him in with the personnel on a given team.
> 
> Ramsay says, "Very difficult. I really think that Shaq is more of a team player. Wilt was a stats collector. He would decide before the season in what stats he wanted to lead the league. He led the league in assists one year."


Hall of Famer Dr. Jack Ramsay is so pwned.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

I have always felt Wilt has been overrated and over exaggerated. But my claims are based solely on era biases. 

If I had to pick though:
90's Shaq
David Robinson
Karl Malone
Kevin Willis (this guy has always been ripped as hell. Even now he is still in AMAZING shape)
MJ
Magic

All in no specific order


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Too early for Dwight Howard. It's gotta be Shaq.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

I really think people have a huge bias against previous eras.

I know you'd all be DROOLING if there was some 7'2 prospect who was a track and field star, could touch the backboard, and was great weight lifter. Just picture it for a moment, if Chamberlain were in next years draft.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Shaun Livingston.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

JoeD said:


> I really think people have a huge bias against previous eras.
> 
> I know you'd all be DROOLING if there was some 7'2 prospect who was a track and field star, could touch the backboard, and was great weight lifter. Just picture it for a moment, if Chamberlain were in next years draft.


Oh, no doubt. He'd be the no. 1 pick in any draft no doubt. Just like Shaq. Just like Dwight. Just like Oden will be.

I just think you put Shaq back in that era and to a lesser extent Dwight and you'd see at least similar dominance. No way Wilt puts up the type of numbers in today's game as he did then.


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## theflyballa (Aug 8, 2006)

It's only natural that as time goes by, players get better. Just look at Kobe over Jordan. Kobe's clearly better now.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

David Robinson came to mind.

No one has the same combination of physical built, athletism, coordination, fitness, strength, explosiveness and agility.


No one.....



Shaq obviously is bigger and stronger and incredibly nimble for a 300 pounder... but he doesnt have the total package..

Dwight?.. well he looks it... but isnt as agile, coordinated as D.Rob.


KG?... apart from being a 7 footer with a small foward's built... which helps him become agile and coordinated.... he lacks a lot of strength.. hence he isnt an inside threath... well he isnt as much of an inside threath as he should be...



Karl Malone is second best in my opinion.... 




Out of the smaller guys?... not sure.. but today's guards are much more muscular, ripped and have better diet and methods of fitness... I wonder how much more atheletic Jordan could of been if he had the same methods used today...


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## medman17 (Oct 25, 2013)

Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Kemp, Duncan


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

holy 6 year old thread batman!


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## SomedayCameSuddenly (Apr 15, 2013)

You revive this thread and don't include Lebron in your list of 5?


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## medman17 (Oct 25, 2013)

oh I didn't finish 
James, Kobe, MJ, Spud and Charlie Ward


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

LaVon Long


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## medman17 (Oct 25, 2013)

oh I didn't finish 
James, Kobe, MJ, Spud and Charlie Ward


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

Cinco de Mayo said:


> LaVon Long


yes, he is lebron like


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