# The Official who should go #1, Oden or Durant thread



## tempe85

I feel sorry for the GM who will fall in the trap of taking Oden before Durant.... because he might not have a job very long after the fact. Durant is going to be amazing.... while Oden... he'll be lucky to be as good as Emeka Okafor (who is a pretty good player). Oden honestly seems to have a little Yinka Dare in him... which is scary.

Compare Dare and Oden's college numbers:

Oden: 29.8 MPG, 15.3 PPG, 9.5 RPG, .7 APG, 3.5 BPG, 62% FT, 60% FG, 2.2 TOPG
Dare: 29.6 MPG, 15.4 PPG, 10.3 RPG, .6 APG, 1.7 BPG, 58% FT, 54% FG, 2.4 TOPG

Two things I notice between them that is very similar... they cannot make an assist to save their life... and they can't shoot FT's either.

Wouldn't you rather have Durant who is a scoring threat from any part of the court, great rebounder, and just plain sensational player?


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## budselig

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Oden has shot all his free throws in the NCAA left handed. He was an 80% FT shooter in high school, I believe. Please don't compare franchise center prospects to Yinka Dare, who was never a franchise center prospect. It doesn't do you or anyone else any good. The comparison to make is one between Patrick Ewing (Oden) and Bob McAdoo (Durant). I'd take Ewing, but you can't go wrong either way. Durant could definitely turn out to be better than Oden.


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## cpawfan

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I feel sorry for whomever believes the tripe in the first post


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## 49erfan

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

please put the pipe down b4 posting.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Kevin Durant is a very impressive player statistically and has played very well for texas this year but id bet my last dollar that Greg Oden has a better career and becomes obviously the better of the two players


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## tempe85

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I knew I would get slammed for writing this about golden boy Oden but even you have to admit the statistical comparison between Dare and Oden is extremely similar. 

I think there have been quite a few red flags about Oden's future.. first of all he's only had 9 double doubles in 22 games (Durant has 17 in 28), 11 out of 22 games where he had 0 assists (Durant only 7 of 28), only averaged 14 PPG in High School, scored over 20 in only 3 games (Durant has only not scored 20 in 5 of 28 games), and finally Oden's not proven to be as big of a defender as most thought and more of just a shot blocker. 

No I don't think Oden is going to be the next Yinka Dare... but as was the point of this thread it's going to be a big mistake when someone takes him over Durant.


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## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Greg Oden to Yinka Dare. It's obvious that the marijuana laws in this country are not working.


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## GNG

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



tempe85 said:


> I feel sorry for the GM who will fall in the trap of taking Oden before Durant.... because he might not have a job very long after the fact. Durant is going to be amazing.... while Oden... he'll be lucky to be as good as Emeka Okafor (who is a pretty good player). Oden honestly seems to have a little Yinka Dare in him... which is scary.
> 
> Compare Dare and Oden's college numbers:
> 
> Oden: 29.8 MPG, 15.3 PPG, 9.5 RPG, .7 APG, 3.5 BPG, 62% FT, 60% FG, 2.2 TOPG
> Dare: 29.6 MPG, 15.4 PPG, 10.3 RPG, .6 APG, 1.7 BPG, 58% FT, 54% FG, 2.4 TOPG
> 
> Two things I notice between them that is very similar... they cannot make an assist to save their life... and they can't shoot FT's either.
> 
> Wouldn't you rather have Durant who is a scoring threat from any part of the court, great rebounder, and just plain sensational player?


You've convinced me. Oden = Yinka Dare. Durant = GOAT.


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## kamego

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I doubt any GM regrets taking either of these players. They both seem to have the skills to be huge in the NBA


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## HB

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



HKF said:


> Greg Oden to Yinka Dare. It's obvious that the marijuana laws in this country are not working.


:lol:


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## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Durant is going to be a great player, but he's a perimeter player, and it's a lot harder to actually win (the point of playing) around them. Oden is the choice.


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## Jizzy

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Durant is much more then a perimeter player.


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## Gtown07

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

No he is a perimeter player. Watch him drive to the basket. It's pathetic . 
The only reason his rebounding is so high is because he stands under the basket and plays little one on one defense. Plus he's the tallest starter on his team. He's a perimeter player. End of story. 

This post was stupid to begin with. Comparing Oden to Yinka freakin Dare? Not only was Yinka on an inferior team where he got more touches but he wasn't playing on a broken wrist with a bunch of me-first guards (w the exception of Conley). That comparison is the worst I've ever heard someone make on this board. Dumber than the Pippen to Manu comparison I heard last year. Someone should take away his posting privledges.


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## Pimped Out

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

i feel sorry for anyone who thinks either one of these two is a scrub


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## bruno34115

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Pimped Out said:


> i feel sorry for anyone who thinks either one of these two is a scrub


Thank you, im soo sick of people trying to build one of them up by tearing the other one down. It's ridiculous. These are two of the best prospects we have seen in the modern era. They will both be great players. End of story.


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## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Lol, I didn't tear anyone down, but the fact of the matter is there's Lebron, Kobe, Pierce, Anthony, Allen, then there's Duncan, Dirk and Shaq. What's the difference here? Durant will be a great player and all-star, but Oden will be able to make a team a title contender with presence alone in his prime.


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## C-Rave

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Durant will be good, but Oden will be much more valuable to an NBA scout. That's because he is a legit Center. Durant is like a 3 maybe a 4, but Oden is definately a 5. Plus Oden can be effective on both sides of the ball. Oden can score in the post and he will block shots on the other end. Durant is a scorer. Period. He'll get boards, but that is because he just happens to be under the basket waiting for a rebound, rather than waiting after defending someone. Durant is not a defensively aware player. If Kevin Durant played half the defense that Oden plays, he would be better. But the man is a bad defender.


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## BEEZ

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

THread=Clasick


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## budselig

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Durant isn't just 'a perimeter player.' He's much more than that. He's one of the truly rare pure shooting bigs, like a Nowitzki or a Mcadoo, though closer to the latter. Yes, most of his scoring on offense will come via the jumpshot, but it is a <i>great</i> jumpshot. He's quick enough and long enough to score plenty of baskets down low in the pros. He will continue to rebound in the NBA, like a player who came out of college with a similar build to his, Lamar Odom. The greatness that Kevin Durant could reach in his career isn't predictable. He could end up significantly worse than Dirk. Maybe he'll end up worse than Odom? I doubt it, but he certainly has less ball skills. He could end up better than both. And he could certainly end up being better than Grego Oden. Everyone takes Oden because of his size - they have to. I wouldn't think twice about it. But with the level Durant's ability is already at, no-one can say Oden is surely going to be the better player.


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## SheriffKilla

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

i dont know if thats necessarily true about perimeter players
the things is that its much easier to find a really good perimeter player than a really good big guy

for example duncan has manu and parker who arent kobe or lebron or wade level but they are pretty close and both have appeared in all star games

mean while shaq has had penny, kobe and wade

so if lets say the celtics take oden he will already be paired up with paul pierce
meanwhile Durant will get drafted by the grizzlies and he'll have pau gasol after that get a smart point guard, some good shooters, guys that work hard on the defensive end and a dedicated coach and you got a championship contender (its obviously a lot of work to do that but thats the basic outlines)


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## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I'm thinking that whoever drafts Oden is going to be really happy for a long time, and whoever drafts Durant will be really happy for a long time.


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## croco

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I'm thinking that whoever drafts Oden is going to be really happy for a long time, and whoever drafts Durant will be really happy for a long time.


Couldn't say it any better.


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## RSP83

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Oden and Durant could become like Hakeem and Jordan in '84. I'm not implying Durant = Jordan. But, Durant has the potential to be better than Oden. And Oden won't be too bad either.


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## P-Rez25

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



tempe85 said:


> I feel sorry for the GM who will fall in the trap of taking Oden before Durant.... because he might not have a job very long after the fact. Durant is going to be amazing.... while Oden... he'll be lucky to be as good as Emeka Okafor (who is a pretty good player). Oden honestly seems to have a little Yinka Dare in him... which is scary.
> 
> Compare Dare and Oden's college numbers:
> 
> Oden: 29.8 MPG, 15.3 PPG, 9.5 RPG, .7 APG, 3.5 BPG, 62% FT, 60% FG, 2.2 TOPG
> Dare: 29.6 MPG, 15.4 PPG, 10.3 RPG, .6 APG, 1.7 BPG, 58% FT, 54% FG, 2.4 TOPG
> 
> Two things I notice between them that is very similar... they cannot make an assist to save their life... and they can't shoot FT's either.
> 
> Wouldn't you rather have Durant who is a scoring threat from any part of the court, great rebounder, and just plain sensational player?


Odens stats are skewed due to the fact he has played most of his games with a broken right hand, if he can put those kinda numbers up with 1 hand imagine what he could do with 2. i like Durant better but even the common basketball fan knows that you need to build your team from the inside first. swingmen are a dime a dozen, how many quality bigs are there?


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## tempe85

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



P-Rez25 said:


> Odens stats are skewed due to the fact he has played most of his games with a broken right hand, if he can put those kinda numbers up with 1 hand imagine what he could do with 2. i like Durant better but even the common basketball fan knows that you need to build your team from the inside first. swingmen are a dime a dozen, how many quality bigs are there?


Still he only put up 14 per game in High School with two good hands... I mean he should score 18 on size alone. How did that possibly happen? Heck Diop... who had no offensive skills at all averaged 14.6 PPG in High School.

If anything he kind of reminds me of Tyson Chandler (who averaged 26PPG in High School).. who is a pretty good player himself... just not on a All-Star/Superstar level.


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## kamego

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



tempe85 said:


> Still he only put up 14 per game in High School with two good hands... I mean he should score 18 on size alone. How did that possibly happen?


The talent they had he didn't need to score for them to win


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## RSP83

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



tempe85 said:


> If anything he kind of reminds me of Tyson Chandler (who averaged 26PPG in High School).. who is a pretty good player himself... just not on a All-Star/Superstar level.


Which tells you that scoring production in HS is not a good indicator of how good a player's scoring ability is. I've never watched Chandler play in his HS days. But judging from watching he tried to score in Chicago, Chandler's high scoring average must be because he's very tall and athletic and he just take advantage of that without developing go to moves.

Now after watching Oden, I don't see how he can't score as much as Chandler in HS. He would've tried to overpower opponents to get a basket. And he'd most likely succeed. Why didn't he? I don't know. But my guess is it's because Oden is defensive minded. The guy is very unselfish too. I have no doubt that Oden will turn into a great player in the NBA. His talent level is definitely above Chandler's level. Because Oden isn't all size and athleticism, he's a very smart player.

Now, the only thing that I haven't seen in Oden is his willingness to put a team on his back and carry the team. Right now he looks like he's just trying to fit in. He's more of a role player right now. In contrast, Durant has been nothing short of "it" from day one. This isn't about Oden being laid back and show no emotions and all of that. He can be laid back like Tim Duncan. But Tim Duncan knows how to be the man. Oden hasn't showed that yet.


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## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I saw Tyson play in high school a few times, and his hands were terrible then too. He had an uncoordinated way about him, his jumper looked funny. When I saw Oden play in high school, I saw a player who thrived on drawing attention and kicking to his teammates. He was a gifted passer, and had great coordination. He is very unselfish. He has a better grip on the game than Chandler did, and does. Yes, Oden needs some coaching with his post game, but the ceiling is there because of his feet, hands, and coordination. It was never there with Chandler, despite what some scouts wanted to believe. 

So the moral of the story is, don't believe stats when it comes to high school players. Greg Oden is better than Tyson Chandler right now.


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## Like A Breath

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Oden's college numbers actually measure favorably to Hakeem's and Ewing's too...Dare has nothing to with this. Anyone who's seen a few Oden games knows he has a very good passer. Not a playmaker in that his passes lead directly to layups, but his passes to wing players allow them to swing the ball easily to open shooters. That's all you can ask out of a center, and the best way to attack a double team.

However, Durant's status as a perimeter player shouldn't be held against him. At least not in today's NBA. Wade just won the championship(Shaq was a supporting player) and I'd have money on Dirk(the guy Durant's compared to) winning it this year. A dominant player will find a way to win.

When it's all said and done, the GM should go with his gut and for the guy he thinks will be a better player. This is not a Big v. Small situation, these guys are too special for simple things like that.


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## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

To tell you the truth the OP's comparison between Oden and Dare (as ridiculous as it sounds) does hold some merit but not in the context that he is arguing. 

Stylistically, Oden does share some similarities with Dare. I know people love to rip on Dare (especially about his assists or should I say lack of) but in college Dare was considered quite the physical specimen (arguably the most physically "gifted" center in college in his day since Shaq). Much like Oden, his offense was also very raw and limited. Defensively, Dare more than held his own against other college big men. Many scouts considered his potential on defense as his greatest asset and projected his D to translate very well in the pros especially considering his size, power, and athleticism. Situation-wise, Dare was also like Oden in the fact that many people also felt that he played on a team that didn't share the ball enough with him. Potential-wise, he had a lot of upside. His most common comparison seemed to be Mutombo and I still remember some scouts even comparing his potential to Ewing and fewer daring to name Olajuwon. But seriously the latter comparisons were quite unrealistic especially when you consider that Dare was only projected to be a mid lottery pick. Like Oden many scouts also agreed that Dare would need some time to develop before actually seeing any results. Needless to say, Dare was a complete bust and he was never as highly touted as Oden is. Oden is a much better prospect than Dare ever was but if one wants to use Dare as a comparison for Oden then it should be his floor not his ceiling or even contemporary. You have to be an absolute pessimist if you think Oden will turn out like Dare and you can also make similar "pessimist" comparisons with Durant. Also, Oden is nothing like Tyson and history has shown that using HS stats or college stats to gauge a player's production potential in the pros is not very wise. After all, what did Shaq, Olajuwon, Ewing, Duncan, and etc. put up in their freshmen years? Oden is already ahead of ALL those players at this stage of his development.

Regarding Durant. IMO some people are also getting a bit too carried away with Durant much with Marvin Williams in the past who I compared to Antawn Jamison before the 05' draft I think on these forums. Don't get me wrong the kid is great and right now he really reminds me of Vin Baker in college but with better handles, athleticism, and upside. I think he is going to be _at least_ Cliff Robinson or Rashard Lewis good with the potential to have a career that could rival Bob McAdoo (I never considered that comparison before but I kind of like it thanks budselig). But some people talk like the kid is the 2nd coming or will revolutionize the definition of combo forward (a label which some also gave to Marvin Williams). I guess we will see...

For me, both players are tremendous prospects with HUGE upsides but we haven't seen a center prospect like Oden in years and who knows when we will see another one. Scouts are not lying when they say he is a once in a generation type of center prospect (which is not really a coincidence when you consider that it has been ten years since Duncan was drafted). As a NBA fan I hope both players will develop into their upsides and any team that lands these two players will have in their hands a potential jackpot.


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## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



tempe85 said:


> Still he only put up 14 per game in High School with two good hands... I mean he should score 18 on size alone. How did that possibly happen? Heck Diop... who had no offensive skills at all averaged 14.6 PPG in High School.
> 
> If anything he kind of reminds me of Tyson Chandler (who averaged 26PPG in High School).. who is a pretty good player himself... just not on a All-Star/Superstar level.


As I mentioned already in my last post in this thread using HS stats is a horrible measure to try to gauge a player's production potential in the pros but Oden was already putting up 20 per game in his junior year. 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/basketball/2005-04-17-all-usa-hoops-boys_x.htm

He was also around 20 his senior year. That 14 was I think in his sophomore season. Also, his team was blowing out their opposition regularly and Oden rarely stayed on the floor when the game was already decided.


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## SheriffKilla

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

i think Oden will be very good
but his passing reminds me of Yao
they are both really good plaeyrs and the future of the NBA in the center position
but they are passing skills are extremely overrated
just cuz they are unselfish and they wont take it against double teams when its not needed
their court vision is really not good at all and they both get their share of turnovers


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## BEEZ

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

tempe get back to this thread


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## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BEEZ said:


> tempe get back to this thread


I'll bring the tar, you bring the feathers.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Like A Breath said:


> .


your sig is excellent man,ive had bobby brown on my sleeper list for a long while now,somebody is gonna get a real steal later in the draft when they take this kid.Hes undersized to a certain degree but has excellent ballhandling and distribution skills,im hoping the sixers can nab him at 30


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## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Now, I remember a year ago I said that Durant was already one of the best shooters in the world and people said how can you say that about a HS player. Well now people realize that he is. This guy should be in the 3-point shootout as an NBA rookie (seriously, he should).


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## Geaux Tigers

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



bruno34115 said:


> Thank you, im soo sick of people trying to build one of them up by tearing the other one down. It's ridiculous. These are two of the best prospects we have seen in the modern era. They will both be great players. End of story.


This is a great post. I dont understand why people cant just accept the fact that both are great and then just chose why you would pick one or the other without tearing the other down. Personally I would take Oden for most of the reasons mentioned in this thread already, but I love watching Durant play, even more than watching Oden. 

If I thought I had the first pick and then slipped to second and Oden was gone, I wouldnt be crying about taking Durant.


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## GNG

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Durant with 25 points in one half against the third-ranked Jayhawks. 5-5 3PT so far.

Hasn't seen the ball much in the second half, and Kansas has climbed back into the game to take the lead.

EDIT - 27 points now after a post-up/turnaround jumper.


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## GNG

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Durant rolls an ankle (or maybe both) with just over 11:00 left in the game. Limps back to the locker room. :uhoh:


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## Pimped Out

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Rawse said:


> Durant rolls an ankle (or maybe both) with just over 11:00 left in the game. Limps back to the locker room. :uhoh:


how much longer until someone calls him injury prone?


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## Knick Killer

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

It doesnt matter who you take you cant go wrong. Both of them are just too good. It really doesnt matter which one you get.


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## rainman

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I think the crowd that would take Durant over Oden is basically saying that he is clearly better than the OSU bigman, because everything being equal a team would take the center.


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## mysterio

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

One thing I really like about the draft forum is looking back at three or four year old posts on player predictions (including my own). It shows how hard it is to know what a player will be until he gets into the NBA and actually plays. The way people were so sure about Darko (there were a lot of posts on this) was pretty funny... We really won't know who will be better until a few years pass. Heck, we don't even know if LeBron will end up better than Carmelo. How's that for a turn around? Keep making predictions though, they're quite amusing.


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## kamego

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Pimped Out said:


> how much longer until someone calls him injury prone?


Once he gets a shoe deal he can develop a shoe that suits his ankles better. If he had knee pains I would be a lot more worried then just rolling the ankles


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## KingOfTheHeatians

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I think Oden will be a very good NBA center, but there have been a lot of bad, bad decisions made by GMs based on the logic of "always take the big guy." That's only if all things are equal. Here, I don't think that's the case. I think KD will be a much more productive player. He WILL score 30+ ppg at his peak. And he will be a very good rebounder in the NBA, regardless of what some here think. He has long arms and great lift, like KG. Just wait until the guy develops a reliable post game. He'll be illegal.

I just don't think Oden is going to be a great scorer with his back to the basket in the NBA. I just don't see it. He'll be a terrific defender, but broken hand or no, he doesn't look very graceful offensively. I think he'll be more Alonzo Mourning than Shaq/Dream/Ewing.


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## KingOfTheHeatians

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

As for KD's defense, he's a classic star freshman defender. He gets a lot of steals and blocks, but gets lost sometimes with his position D. But he also gets a lot of defensive rebounds which are important. And the most important thing is that he WANTS to be a good defender, which is like 90 percent of the battle. He's just 18. It's a little early to indict him as a bad defender for his whole career.


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## MRedd22

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Oden played coming off an injury too, though.


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## aussiestatman

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

oden may dominate the NBA for a decade, including championship rings
durant could be an all-star in the right team.


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## Wade County

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Personally, i see that one of them will be on the East, one on the West. Thatll make for a great rivalry (Lebron/ Melo - Jordan/Malone...etc) assuming they live up to their respective hype.

For some reason i feel that Memphis will win the draft and get Oden - in which case Boston or Philly will get Durant.

Dont sleep on some of the other guys in this draft however, theres plenty of talent - the whole first round has great potential and theres sure to be some steals in the 2nd.

Atlanta better not win the draft this year, their pick goes to the Suns. That just wouldnt be fair.


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## cpawfan

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BG44 said:


> Atlanta better not win the draft this year, their pick goes to the Suns. That just wouldnt be fair.


Atlanta's pick is top 3 protected this season


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## AUNDRE

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

still cant find myself drinking the Kool Aid on Durant...... lock for the #2 pick but defensively hes not as big of an impact as Oden and Oden is still wearing the cast I believe (havent seen OSU play in a while)

plus you have to factor in that Texas is filled with talent, they have 2 players other then Durant who put up 14 points a game, which is both guards.... they have to be accounted for which gives Durant a lot of good looks


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## Pimped Out

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

or you could look at it and say the reason there are 2 other players on the team who score 14 a game is because durant gives them good looks. AJ Abrams has done the vast majority of his scoring off spot up 3 pointers (105 of his 146 fields goals have been from deep).


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## KingOfTheHeatians

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



AUNDRE said:


> plus you have to factor in that Texas is filled with talent, they have 2 players other then Durant who put up 14 points a game, which is both guards.... they have to be accounted for which gives Durant a lot of good looks


You must not watch Texas much. First of all, their team is completely freshman and sophomores. No experience whatsoever. A.J. Abrams is a spot-up shooter who almost never creates offense himself. D.J. Augustin is a great prospect but he plays point guard like his middle name is "Stephon Marbury." He's not a pure point guard, no matter how many assists he averages. He dribbles the ball to death on every possession and tries to do too much half the time. He's talented enough to get away with it at that level. Texas runs virtually nothing for Durant. He just gets it on his own. They hardly ever run any sets and don't seem to have any other plays except for Augustin driving and kicking or just giving the ball to Durant and getting out of the way. 

When this guy gets in a real offense with a true point guard, he's going to dominate even more.


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## BigMike

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

What good team doesn't have more than one option? No decent team in America has just one guy who can get it done...other players have to be accountd for on every team in the country. You can't triple team KD and let DJ and Abrams have wide open looks all night long. How about Arizona? Are you gonna swarm Williams and let Radenovic, Budinger, and Mustafa get whatever shots they want? That argument is not valid...it's the same situation for pretty much every star player at every level of basketball.

And it's true...UT doesn't run many sets for Durant. Or for anyone, to be honest, they just kind of run and gun. It's a good system for him to be playing in, but not because he gets his number called every time down the floor, it's just because it's a very aggressive NBA style system where a lot of shots are taken. He doesn't score because Barnes draws it up for him every time down the floor. He scores because when he touches the ball within 25 feet of the rim you're basically at his mercy. If you're a big, he'll just put it on the floor and beat you. If you're shorter than him, he'll just rise up and knock it down. Because of his height/length/shooting touch, a lot of his shots (pull up 3, turnaround jump shot in the post) are basically unguardable.


----------



## KingOfTheHeatians

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

That little turnaround 17-footer he shot early in the second half yesterday is going to become deadly, unstoppable weapon for him in the future, IMO. There's nothing you can do with that given his size and length. Playing on the wing in the NBA, he's going to be able to get whatever shot he wants whenever he wants it. He'll shoot over smaller 3s and go around the bigger ones. With his arms, he's basically like a 7-footer. Heaven help us when he gets a consistent post game.


----------



## Drk Element

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Durant will be lucky if he can get up to McGrady's level, whereas Oden will be the next David Robinson, no doubt


----------



## Pimped Out

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

i dont like to talk bad about oden, but he is not a lock to be as a good as robinson. he's not even a lock to become better than dwight howard.

i dont see how you say no doubt that he will put up 25 points, 13 rebounds, and 4 blocks or almost 30 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and over 3 blocks

the worst case scenarios for these guys appear to be rashard lewis and the 2006 version of dwight howard.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Are we all watching the same playeres here?


----------



## BigMike

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Look, Oden's got the tools. Clearly. But has he done anything near what guys like Wilt, Robinson, and Kareem did in college to warrant a comparison to them? ABSOLUTELY not. To be honest I think a lot of Oden's legacy at this point is a little undeserved; yeah he's a monster, but I think he's gotten a ton of the hype because he has so huge so young. I mean this is what the guy looked like as a sophomore in high school...of course people were all over him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic prospect, the consensus #1 in most drafts. He'll be an immediate defensive presence, and a top C in the league. But even if he turns into the best center in the NBA, I don't think he'll be as dominant as guys like Robinson, Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, etc...there just isn't anybody in the NBA like that in this era. I think he'll always be a step behind these guys offensively. Sure, give him the ball within five feet and he'll probably dunk it over somebody...but all these guys had that ability, in addition to their own fabulous skill sets that Oden isn't even close to. He's far behind where these guys were offensively. I know he's got the wrist thing, the lefty free-throws and all that, but watch him play. Watch closely...look at him operate in the post, go after boards with two hands, shoot with his right. It doesn't look like his wrist is laboring him all that much anymore...he looks close to 100%. He's not favoring it. The potential is there, but he's got tons of work to do.

Durant, on the other hand, I don't see him not being a superstar. I don't need to talk about his skill set/length/athleticism combination. Watch Texas for two minutes and you'll see it for yourself. I also know him personally, as an employee of Texas basketball (which likely adds a little to me being biased) and he really is just a nice guy. Probably the coolest, most humble on the team. He's just Kevin, you know? Not some big shot. None of it goes to his head. Not to mention the fact that he's the hardest working guy on the team...always in the practice facility putting up shots and working on his game. Combine that with the fact that he's already so polished and dominant at the college level at such a young age (JUST turned 18), it just adds to his intrigue. I see his basement as I guess as Rashard Lewis, and his ceiling? The guy doesn't really have one. 6'10, handles well, shoots ridiculously, polished post game, freakish length, great athlete, and most fluid player at his height I've ever seen. Can't think of any other players like that.


----------



## Pimped Out

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

how would i go about meeting you at work one day?


----------



## BigMike

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Next time your on UT's campus let me know.


----------



## cima

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

meh, you can't go wrong with either one. they are different players, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that both of them will be dominant NBA players.


----------



## Pimped Out

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BigMike said:


> Next time your on UT's campus let me know.


:rofl: dude, i live in jester


----------



## BigMike

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

haha i lived there last semester, I just moved to Duren. PM me anytime you want to we can go watch practice.


----------



## hirschmanz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

As long as possible lottery scenarios are being discussed, notice that the bucks are currently tied for 3rd last in the nba. No guarantees in the lottery, but if we end up with either of these guys I will be ecstatic.

I recall when the Bucks took bogut (center) over marvin williams (combo forward). Who was the best pick in that draft? chris paul. Bodes well for the team that gets acie law IV i guess.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



tempe85 said:


> I knew I would get slammed for writing this about golden boy Oden but even you have to admit the statistical comparison between Dare and Oden is extremely similar.


The numbers you posted above for Dare are better then Shaq, Ewing, and Zo as freshmen. 

So Yinka is one of the best center of all time?


----------



## BEEZ

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



JuniorNoboa said:


> The numbers you posted above for Dare are better then Shaq, Ewing, and Zo as freshmen.
> 
> So Yinka is one of the best center of all time?


Junior stop it, he seems to have totally dissappeared from this thread


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BigMike said:


> Look, Oden's got the tools. Clearly. But has he done anything near what guys like Wilt, Robinson, and Kareem did in college to warrant a comparison to them? ABSOLUTELY not. To be honest I think a lot of Oden's legacy at this point is a little undeserved; yeah he's a monster, but I think he's gotten a ton of the hype because he has so huge so young. I mean this is what the guy looked like as a sophomore in high school...of course people were all over him.


Oden has NO legacy...yet. He is mainly judged right now by his potential. Oden is also in his freshman year and right now is the MVP of the #1 college team in the nation. People seem to forget that especially in the light of Durant's amazing stats. As a freshman he is CLEARLY ahead of Robinson, Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem. Wilt and Kareem due to rules back then couldn't participate in varsity play as freshman. But even so I doubt Oden could match Kareem or Wilt's college exploits. Also, it is not Oden's size which merits his potential but his play in combination with his size. 

I don't see what makes Durant more of a superstar potential than Oden. It is kind of the same with Duncan. Back in 94, you can also say that Stackhouse had more "superstar" potential than Duncan. 

One more thing, I truly believe that it would benefit Oden to stay in school for one more year and continue his development like Duncan. Unless if something ridiculous happens his spot at #1 is secure as long as he continues to improve and is healthy.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



mysterio said:


> *It shows how hard it is to know what a player will be until he gets into the NBA and actually plays.*


Exactly. All our arguments regarding draft prospects are mostly based on potential and potential at its best are only estimated guesses. There are many prospects like Darko who obviously did not meet their potential then there are players like Arenas who have obviously exceeded their potential. In the end it all depends on the player himself and his circumstance. Some players also develop into completely different players in the pros than when they played in college. Baker is an example of this. The Bucks chose to develop Baker into a PF/C so gone were his days as a jump shooting forward in college. As good of a prospect as Oden and Durant are they are not 100% sure things. The only prospect I have ever come across especially if we were mainly arguing on potential that was as close to a 100% sure thing was Lebron (and no I am not talking about 100% he would be the next MJ...that is a media creation...I am talking about having superstar potential).


----------



## DurantDurant

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Eh, both these guys are great talents/players...a GM would be lucky to have either one of them...ugh...biased people.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Greg Oden's cast is off and he looked like the best young center I've ever seen today against Michigan. His offensive arsenal was completely unstoppable and he showed a lot more agility than I thought he had. A lot of great moves and indeed his jump hook, while a little awkward looking, is pretty much golden.

I think he'll be better than Dwight Howard by his second year in the league. His offensive and defensive skills are arguably better than Howard's already. His rebounding probably isn't, but I don't think he'll be a slouch rebounding. I mean, Howard is the best rebounder in the NBA right now.


----------



## JNice

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Both guys are going to be very good but I'd have to consider Durant over Oden right now. This kid is sick. He'll probably be a 20ppg scorer is rookie year and an eventual 30ppg scorer.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I would still take Oden, if I want to win titles, but Durant should be the centerpiece of what could be the best offense in the NBA. Durant needs to be in the Eastern Conference (here's hoping Boston). Heck, I'd take Oden in ATL, Philly or Charlotte as well.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

All I know is Oden is dominant on the defensive end. You can't score inside with him in there.


----------



## rebelsun

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

After watching both Ohio State and Texas all weekend, I still like Oden. How many guys are 7'0, 275 with his athleticism? This guy is ridiculous on defense and should get 20+ppg in the league.

Durant is an awesome offensive force, though. He's easily a future max-earner and a potential league-leader in scoring. If he was a great distributor, maybe, but I don't take him #1 with Greg available.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



RebelSun said:


> After watching both Ohio State and Texas all weekend, I still like Oden. How many guys are 7'0, 275 with his athleticism? This guy is ridiculous on defense and should get 20+ppg in the league.
> 
> Durant is an awesome offensive force, though. He's easily a future max-earner and a potential league-leader in scoring. If he was a great distributor, maybe, but I don't take him #1 with Greg available.


Oden has a very long way to go on offense before he gets 20 a game in the league.


----------



## rebelsun

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Oden has a very long way to go on offense before he gets 20 a game in the league.


I think he'll average 20ppg within 3 pro seasons, worst case scenario. It seemed like he had another gear that he displayed this weekend. I don't think we've seen a consistently-pissed off, let alone completely healthy, Oden yet. 

Keep in mind Greg also plays on a very deep team and is getting less than 10FGA/game, whereas Kevin is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd options on his Texas squad and getting almost 20FGA/game. Double Oden's shot attempts, and he could be getting 25ppg easily, too. Put Oden on a team with similar talent and experience, instead of a national championship contender, and his hype would be absolutely through the roof.

Offense aside, he'll be one of the best defensive players in the league the first time he steps on the floor.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



RebelSun said:


> I think he'll average 20ppg within 3 pro seasons, worst case scenario. It seemed like he had another gear that he displayed this weekend. I don't think we've seen a consistently-pissed off, let alone completely healthy, Oden yet.
> 
> Keep in mind Greg also plays on a very deep team and is getting less than 10FGA/game, whereas Kevin is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd options on his Texas squad and getting almost 20FGA/game. Double Oden's shot attempts, and he could be getting 25ppg easily, too. Put Oden on a team with similar talent and experience, instead of a national championship contender, and his hype would be absolutely through the roof.
> 
> Offense aside, he'll be one of the best defensive players in the league the first time he steps on the floor.


I just haven't seen the skillset that would enable him to get 20 a game in the league. Really needs to work on his back to the basket game.


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## hirschmanz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I just haven't seen the skillset that would enable him to get 20 a game in the league. Really needs to work on his back to the basket game.


Although I disagree with your prediction of the '05 draft :biggrin: , this is spot on. Aside from his little jump-hook, he doesn't have much in the way of creating his shot. Many of his points are cleaning up on guard penetration and offensive rebounds. He will definitely get his points in the NBA, especially if he ends up on the celtics where he can play off pierce, but 20 a game? might take a while, 5 seasons is my guess. He'll be 24 in 5 years. Probably balding


----------



## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I just haven't seen the skillset that would enable him to get 20 a game in the league. Really needs to work on his back to the basket game.


What skill set does a big man like Oden really need? He doesn't need any finesse moves. He's not going to be floating around or fading from 14 feet out. All he needs is the ability to get good positioning, possibly put the ball on the floor once, spin, and dunk. He's athletic, coordinated and is learning how to use his strength and box off the defensive players by shielding the entry pass with his body. He has the ability to score 20ppg down low, without a doubt. He just needs some time to put it all together. The worst scenario would be where his NBA coach doesn't use him enough, ala Dwight Howard and Brian Hill. Granted, Dwight has been committing a lot of TOs, but he needs to become the focal point. As should Oden over time.

All he needs is a full summer of personal coaching for his offensive game, with good health. It all comes down to the team that drafts him. If they give him the cold shoulder on the offensive end, he won't get 20ppg. If his teammates don't use him, he won't score. OSU doesn't go down low to Oden enough, they have Conley and Cook dominating the ball and setting the precedent. It's working for them though, they are first in the nation.

People are always going on with centers needing skill sets. They really don't. They need the ability to create space down low, hold a position and shield an entry pass. From there it only takes 1 move, with hopefully three variations off of it. If Oden spins into a defender, he needs to recognize to fake and possibly spin back. He doesn't need a well defined skill set. Look at Shaq. He really doesn't vary it up a great deal. He has one move, and a few variations ending with a dunk, a baby hook or a drop step.


----------



## dru_jones

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Even though I believe Durant will be the better pro than Oden, you still measure greatness by the number of championships that they win. And having dominant big men (be they offensive or defensive) is a more proven way to win rather than having a stud swingman/forward. With the only real exception being Jordan's Bulls. 

Just look at the comparisons being made for Durant, KG and Tmac. Great players without a doubt, but zero titles between them. And close to no hope of ever winning one. (unless KG goes to join Kobe and recreates the MJ/Scottie dynamic and Yao learns how to defend).

So, the team drafting Oden will only regret the potential lost merchandising that will be brought in by Durant. If I was aiming to win titles, I draft Oden without even thinking about missing Durant.


----------



## hirschmanz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Lachlanwood32 said:


> What skill set does a big man like Oden really need? He doesn't need any finesse moves. He's not going to be floating around or fading from 14 feet out. All he needs is the ability to get good positioning, possibly put the ball on the floor once, spin, and dunk. He's athletic, coordinated and is learning how to use his strength and box off the defensive players by shielding the entry pass with his body. He has the ability to score 20ppg down low, without a doubt. He just needs some time to put it all together. The worst scenario would be where his NBA coach doesn't use him enough, ala Dwight Howard and Brian Hill. Granted, Dwight has been committing a lot of TOs, but he needs to become the focal point. As should Oden over time.
> 
> All he needs is a full summer of personal coaching for his offensive game, with good health. It all comes down to the team that drafts him. If they give him the cold shoulder on the offensive end, he won't get 20ppg. If his teammates don't use him, he won't score. OSU doesn't go down low to Oden enough, they have Conley and Cook dominating the ball and setting the precedent. It's working for them though, they are first in the nation.
> 
> People are always going on with centers needing skill sets. They really don't. They need the ability to create space down low, hold a position and shield an entry pass. From there it only takes 1 move, with hopefully three variations off of it. If Oden spins into a defender, he needs to recognize to fake and possibly spin back. He doesn't need a well defined skill set. Look at Shaq. He really doesn't vary it up a great deal. He has one move, and a few variations ending with a dunk, a baby hook or a drop step.


you have some good points about centers not needing extensive skill-sets.

Shaq, however, is not a good example. He works the drop step, hook, up-and under, and various spins. His post arsenal was large coming into the league and grew more deadly by the year (although he doesn't quite execute like he used to).

Dwight Howard is underutilized by the magic because his efficiency would rapidly drop if they fed him 10-15 more times a game. Moving or passing away from double teams and knowing how to deal with when a defender is fronting you are skills that he undoubtedly knows and now needs to make instinctual.

Its not a matter of knowing what to do, its not having to think about it. Dwight Howard, Greg oden, any center trying to make it in the nba has to learn these things fresh, since the pool of college/hs big men is not as concentrated with talent as the nba.


----------



## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



hirschmanz said:


> you have some good points about centers not needing extensive skill-sets.
> 
> Shaq, however, is not a good example. He works the drop step, hook, up-and under, and various spins. His post arsenal was large coming into the league and grew more deadly by the year (although he doesn't quite execute like he used to).


I was not comparing Oden and Shaq's offensive abilities. Shaq is far superior coming out of college on the offensive end, but he has never had a deadly arsenal. He has a few moves which he has made successful. For example, Shaq gets the ball in position, pounds the ball, spins and dunks. Perhaps he doesn't get close enough and throws up a hook shot. That's a variation, a counter because he's taking what the defense gives him. It's not really two separate moves. Don't understand how what you listed can be classified as a lot of moves. Those are two moves. A drop step and a spin. Shaq rarely uses an up and under. He's power. A hook shot is the result of one of these moves. You rarely see Shaq get the ball, and just shoot a baby hook. He usually takes a dribble and powers into the lane for a hook shot or he kicks the ball out. He's not Dikembe. He never shot hook shots out of the blue.

Shaq is all back to the basket, power basketball. Much like Oden should be. Most people on this board seem to think that if a center can't hit a 14 foot jumpshot he needs to develop his skill set. It's just not the case. Sure, it's become more common but how many of these big men with "extensive skill sets" can really bang. If a guy is successful with his power game, you don't usually see him venture outside.


----------



## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



hirschmanz said:


> Dwight Howard is underutilized by the magic because his efficiency would rapidly drop if they fed him 10-15 more times a game. Moving or passing away from double teams and knowing how to deal with when a defender is fronting you are skills that he undoubtedly knows and now needs to make instinctual.


Trust me, Dwight is under utilized by the Magic because of the players surrounding him. His efficiency would not drop. Dwight makes the whole team more efficient when he's on the court. Check 82games, nearly every category is positive when Dwight is on the floor. Dwight attempts 11 shots per game, but has an eFG% of .599. How on earth can you argue that the guy would be less efficient if he was fed the ball more? He'd probably turn it over a little more, but if he's shooting 59% from the field I'll take my chances. The problem is the set up in Orlando and the focus. Too many times a perimeter shot goes up, or the ball isn't worked around enough to open up the middle for Dwight.


----------



## WaterlooVikings

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

i see durant making more of an impact on a team and he will create highlite reels but oden will help win a championship... comparisons to shaq who helped an t-mac who has done zippo


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

One positive from Oden not being an Amare-shaq type offensive player is that he'll have to develop moves and that will lenghten his career IMO. You can still work moves, and get even better at them at 34, but you can't jump over people at that agae.

Right now the consensus is that Durant is spectacular on offense, but Oden is going to be spectacular period, making him the best choice. People use the "NBA is getting smaller excuse", but that's the perfect reason to grab Oden and destroy teams in the post. He can already be a defensive anchor for any team, and his offensive game will only grow.

What position do you guys see Durant playing though? I hear some people say 4, but I don't know. He says he wants to ultimately grow out to 235, and that's a bit thin for a forward. It does depend on system though, so who knows.


----------



## SheriffKilla

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

if durant really measures out to be 6'10 adn he can gain up to 235 without loosing too much mobility i think he fits better as a PF
but right now he is a SF...


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Lachlanwood32 said:


> What skill set does a big man like Oden really need? He doesn't need any finesse moves. He's not going to be floating around or fading from 14 feet out. All he needs is the ability to get good positioning, possibly put the ball on the floor once, spin, and dunk. He's athletic, coordinated and is learning how to use his strength and box off the defensive players by shielding the entry pass with his body. He has the ability to score 20ppg down low, without a doubt. He just needs some time to put it all together. The worst scenario would be where his NBA coach doesn't use him enough, ala Dwight Howard and Brian Hill. Granted, Dwight has been committing a lot of TOs, but he needs to become the focal point. As should Oden over time.
> 
> All he needs is a full summer of personal coaching for his offensive game, with good health. It all comes down to the team that drafts him. If they give him the cold shoulder on the offensive end, he won't get 20ppg. If his teammates don't use him, he won't score. OSU doesn't go down low to Oden enough, they have Conley and Cook dominating the ball and setting the precedent. It's working for them though, they are first in the nation.
> 
> People are always going on with centers needing skill sets. They really don't. They need the ability to create space down low, hold a position and shield an entry pass. From there it only takes 1 move, with hopefully three variations off of it. If Oden spins into a defender, he needs to recognize to fake and possibly spin back. He doesn't need a well defined skill set. Look at Shaq. He really doesn't vary it up a great deal. He has one move, and a few variations ending with a dunk, a baby hook or a drop step.


I have yet to see him do what you are talking about (getting great position) I remeber the Wisconsin bigs pushing him anywhere they wanted earlier in the season. When he's going against guys his size in the lague he'll have even more trouble. He has no killer instinct, doesn't even seem like he cares that much.


----------



## arhie

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Sorry bud, no team will regret taking Oden over Durant just like they didn't regret taking Hakeem over JOrdan. Only regret was Sam Bowie.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



hirschmanz said:


> Although I disagree with your prediction of the '05 draft :biggrin: , this is spot on. Aside from his little jump-hook, he doesn't have much in the way of creating his shot. Many of his points are cleaning up on guard penetration and offensive rebounds. He will definitely get his points in the NBA, especially if he ends up on the celtics where he can play off pierce, but 20 a game? might take a while, 5 seasons is my guess. He'll be 24 in 5 years. Probably balding


Totally wrong, Oden has a good offensive game. First of all you brush off his jump-hook, which is incredible. He never misses it! Walton said that about Greg Oden before I realized it during last weekend at the Big Ten Tournament. Oden's jump-hook is one of the best in history. It always goes down. Secondly, he gets great position in the post and totally dominates guys with his strength. And in addition, he seems to get to the basket with both his back to it, and facing up. And he either draws contact or makes the easy shot every time.

And I also think you underestimate the fact that he is so good on the offensive glass. His guards penetrate and put up a lot of floaters precisely because Oden is so good at putbacks. The kid is just simply amazing and his offense is ridiculously underrated, even by the Oden supporters. I don't know if he'll get the minutes and shots to score 20 ppg in his rookie season, but he has the skills to do it. The kid is a generation player, and I would take him over Dwight Howard right now. I said differently before the college season when the Oden hype was probably the highest.


----------



## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> What position do you guys see Durant playing though? I hear some people say 4, but I don't know. He says he wants to ultimately grow out to 235, and that's a bit thin for a forward. It does depend on system though, so who knows.


I'd stick Durant at the 3. I can't see him being able to defend the 4, nor would I stick him at the 4 on the offensive end. His long range shot is too dangerous. I'd stick him at the 2 before I stuck him at the 4.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> He has no killer instinct, doesn't even seem like he cares that much.


You mean like Duncan?

And Nimreitz is right. Oden's offensive deficiency is overrated. He's not shaq or hakeem right now, but for college he's still good. Oden doesn't look all that dominant because he plays with some good guards, and guard play always looks better than big men do in college. He has a reliable hook shot, and takes it strong when he wants to, he has a decent spin. 

Counterpoint however is that he looks good against 6-8 "centers", but that won't cut it in the NBA.


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## SheriffKilla

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Oden does have some nice touch but he has no moves at all in the post
he'll just turn around and float the half hook over the D from what ever spot he gets the ball...
or if he is within a few feet he'll 2hand slam no matter who is in the way...


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## hirschmanz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Nimreitz said:


> Totally wrong, Oden has a good offensive game. First of all you brush off his jump-hook, which is incredible. He never misses it! Walton said that about Greg Oden before I realized it during last weekend at the Big Ten Tournament. Oden's jump-hook is one of the best in history. It always goes down. Secondly, he gets great position in the post and totally dominates guys with his strength. And in addition, he seems to get to the basket with both his back to it, and facing up. And he either draws contact or makes the easy shot every time.
> 
> And I also think you underestimate the fact that he is so good on the offensive glass. His guards penetrate and put up a lot of floaters precisely because Oden is so good at putbacks. The kid is just simply amazing and his offense is ridiculously underrated, even by the Oden supporters. I don't know if he'll get the minutes and shots to score 20 ppg in his rookie season, but he has the skills to do it. The kid is a generation player, and I would take him over Dwight Howard right now. I said differently before the college season when the Oden hype was probably the highest.


I don't mean to underestimate his jump-hook. It is truly an excellent move. I just worry that in term of skill, against nba competition, that he needs to be able to do more.

In college, of course he dominates with his strength. NBA centers will be a little more difficult, especially at first. Also, dominating the offensive glass is much easier in college. 

He's not there yet, but right now he will be picked number one on the basis of defense and promise. His offensive game, RIGHT NOW, is not where many say it is.


----------



## MarioChalmers

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

What a crazy thread. 

Both young guys are great, but Oden's basically more valuable because there are already so many Durants in the league.


----------



## rainman

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Either way you wont see any GMs gagging when they end up with the second pick this year.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> You mean like Duncan?
> 
> And Nimreitz is right. Oden's offensive deficiency is overrated. He's not shaq or hakeem right now, but for college he's still good. Oden doesn't look all that dominant because he plays with some good guards, and guard play always looks better than big men do in college. He has a reliable hook shot, and takes it strong when he wants to, he has a decent spin.
> 
> Counterpoint however is that he looks good against 6-8 "centers", but that won't cut it in the NBA.


You make great points.

Also to add, Hakeem and Shaq's offensive skillset were hardly considered impressive in their freshmen year and despite Shaq's offensive dominance in his soph and junior year when he got to the NBA most critics said he only had one move...the power dunk. 

Oden has already shown some development in his offensive skillset. He also has the finger roll ala Wilt although it will be hard to get away with that against larger defenders I must admit. Oden is also very quick in the pivot for his size and which complements his spin ala Shaq. His wrist injury is also a blessing in disguise because now he has developed his left hand.

Power players will always be criticized for their offensive skillset deficiency because they won't exhibit the same amount of offensive skillset as a perimeter or finesse player. Remember Amare in his rookie year? I think Oden's skillset is already better but the key is Amare continued to improve on offense and Oden has the will to put forth the same effort.

Some people say he has no killer instinct but I love his attitude to learn and improve. Killer instinct is overrated and doesn't necessarily translate to wins. As much of a killer instinct Kobe has the Lakers are where? Does Nash have killer instinct? Does Duncan? 

I would like to see Oden's hook and spin become a more consistent threat. Maybe add a 10-15 foot jumper and continue to develop as mainly a power player. His athleticism is already a bonus for a guy his size and lets him get away with many things. Just think a couple years in the pros with pro conditioning he could be 300-315 while hopefully maintaining his quickness and athleticism.

A lot of people like to say Durant's potential is greater mainly based on his offensive exploits but one can argue that Durant has already shown his offensive skillset peak meanwhile Oden's potential is not even close to being realized.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Lachlanwood32 said:


> I'd stick Durant at the 3. I can't see him being able to defend the 4, nor would I stick him at the 4 on the offensive end. His long range shot is too dangerous. I'd stick him at the 2 before I stuck him at the 4.


It depends on the team which is why I mentioned Baker in several threads. People laughed at the Bucks for trying to turn Baker into a PF. Yet he became an all-star at that position and eventually could even man the 5 at times.

But I understand people wanting to keep Durant at the 3 and I also laughed at the Bucks but it is possible especially if Durant wants to add bulk and what is his height? Is it 6'9, 6'10, 6'11? I keep reading different things but if he is 6'10 and above a transition to 4 is not impossible. But as it is now it would probably be best to develop Durant as a 3 and if he adds weight and improves his post game he could rotate to 4 during portions of a game like Worthy. Right now Durant really looks like another Rashard Lewis and I believe he models his game after Lewis? If he continues toward that type of development and lives up to his full potential Rashard Lewis will probably be a poor man's Durant in the future.


----------



## jooxunit

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

who do you think you are comparing those two players? Oden has the ability to dominate a game at 7'0 and 250 while Durant while he's a damn good basketball player will not be able to carry a team by himself. You can't undervalue a guy of Oden's size and athletic talent. He's a monster on the offensive glass & a defensive presence. He's Emeka Okafor with an offensive game, and you can't stop that.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> You mean like Duncan?
> 
> And Nimreitz is right. Oden's offensive deficiency is overrated. He's not shaq or hakeem right now, but for college he's still good. Oden doesn't look all that dominant because he plays with some good guards, and guard play always looks better than big men do in college. He has a reliable hook shot, and takes it strong when he wants to, he has a decent spin.
> 
> Counterpoint however is that he looks good against 6-8 "centers", but that won't cut it in the NBA.


I've seen duncan show emotion many times, but I'm talking more about him accepting the fact that his opponents are pushing him around instead of getting mad, and doing something about it. I could care less if he screams like Tyrus Thomas, just fight back when someone bodies you up.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Bball_Doctor said:


> You make great points.
> 
> Also to add, Hakeem and Shaq's offensive skillset were hardly considered impressive in their freshmen year and despite Shaq's offensive dominance in his soph and junior year when he got to the NBA most critics said he only had one move...the power dunk.
> 
> Oden has already shown some development in his offensive skillset. He also has the finger roll ala Wilt although it will be hard to get away with that against larger defenders I must admit. Oden is also very quick in the pivot for his size and which complements his spin ala Shaq. His wrist injury is also a blessing in disguise because now he has developed his left hand.
> 
> Power players will always be criticized for their offensive skillset deficiency because they won't exhibit the same amount of offensive skillset as a perimeter or finesse player. Remember Amare in his rookie year? I think Oden's skillset is already better but the key is Amare continued to improve on offense and Oden has the will to put forth the same effort.
> 
> Some people say he has no killer instinct but I love his attitude to learn and improve. Killer instinct is overrated and doesn't necessarily translate to wins. As much of a killer instinct Kobe has the Lakers are where? Does Nash have killer instinct? Does Duncan?
> 
> I would like to see Oden's hook and spin become a more consistent threat. Maybe add a 10-15 foot jumper and continue to develop as mainly a power player. His athleticism is already a bonus for a guy his size and lets him get away with many things. Just think a couple years in the pros with pro conditioning he could be 300-315 while hopefully maintaining his quickness and athleticism.
> 
> A lot of people like to say Durant's potential is greater mainly based on his offensive exploits but one can argue that Durant has already shown his offensive skillset peak meanwhile Oden's potential is not even close to being realized.


You think Durant has peaked as an offensive player? Please tell me you are joking? Once he fills out, and gets into that 240 range like he easily can, his post game combined with his perimeter game will be unstoppable.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I've seen duncan show emotion many times, but I'm talking more about him accepting the fact that his opponents are pushing him around instead of getting mad, and doing something about it. I could care less if he screams like Tyrus Thomas, just fight back when someone bodies you up.


Who's bodying Oden up? These occurances, however rare they are, isn't the reason you don't take him number one. Passion has never been a reason not to draft an otherwise great player.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> You think Durant has peaked as an offensive player? Please tell me you are joking? Once he fills out, and gets into that 240 range like he easily can, his post game combined with his perimeter game will be unstoppable.


This is where people begin to overestimate talent, automatically thinking a player will just gain another level because they're young. Durant will improve, but his offensive game isn't going to change as drastically as you'd think. I mean he already tries the back to the basket thing, and the most he does is a quick spin or turnaround J. He's not going to suddenly turn into a post machine because he's heavier. 

I'm sure his shooting and understanding of how to move around the court and move without the ball can improve, but as a scorer he's displaying his game for us right now. Where I look for him to improve the most on is defense, ballhandling, and being able to find his teammates better. He's far from peaked, but scoring won't be the area he improves the most, at least I hope not, or he'll just be Carmelo.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



jooxunit said:


> who do you think you are comparing those two players? Oden has the ability to dominate a game at 7'0 and 250 while Durant while he's a damn good basketball player will not be able to carry a team by himself. You can't undervalue a guy of Oden's size and athletic talent. He's a monster on the offensive glass & a defensive presence. He's Emeka Okafor with an offensive game, and you can't stop that.


Oden doesn't really dominate the offensive end yet. To most of his detractors this is his biggest criticism but I think many of those critics are too harsh because it is evident that Oden is working hard to improve on offense. He even admitted that was his greatest liability and one reason that would stop him from entering this year's draft. But you are right, a player of his size, athleticism, and potential has not been seen in years for a center prospect. He is a much better prospect than Okafor when you factor in his size and development already at this stage but Okafor is far from unstoppable especially on the offensive end and was never projected to be. Where as Oden because of his size has potential to become an offensive force. I won't say he will be in Shaq or Hakeem's territory but you never know because as I mentioned neither Shaq or Hakeem were thought to have great offensive skillsets as freshmen but if Oden continues to improve he could be a consistent 21-22 PPG scorer in the NBA. Add that with his 12-14 RPG and 3-4 BPG and you have a dominant center not that dissimilar to what Duncan gives the Spurs. 

But you can't undervalue Durant either and although I have consistently argued in favour of Oden in terms of NBA value Durant does belong in this argument. He is having a freshmen season even better than Wayman Tisdale who was a MONSTER in college but not so much in the pros (not comparing Tisdale to Durant though except for college accomplishments since they are different types of players). In fact, Durant is approaching Glenn Robinson type of statistical dominance but as a freshmen. If he meets his potential Durant could be a 30 PPG scorer in the pros (at least 20 PPG) but it really depends on what position he develops in because I can't see him putting up 30 as a 4 but as a 3 he will also unlikely grab as many rebounds as he does now in college. Maybe down to 6-7, 8 at best. So let's say 30-7 potential compared to 22-12 with Oden probably bringing in more intangibles than Durant.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



gian said:


> What a crazy thread.
> 
> Both young guys are great, but Oden's basically more valuable because there are already so many Durants in the league.


FALSE! FALSE! FALSE!

There are not a bunch of Durants in the league. There are maybe 5 comparable talents: Dirk, T Mac, Kobe, LeBron, and Pierce. I am talking about versatile, volume scoring wings that can get their shot in traffic, off the dribble, in the post, on the break, driving, etc with high efficiency. Just like you have Duncan, Howard, Ming, and Shaq. If you are trying to say guys like Rashard Lewis, Ray Allen, Redd, and Melo (could be in the upper echelon) and similar players are comparable then the list of 'comparables' for Oden expands also.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> You think Durant has peaked as an offensive player? Please tell me you are joking? Once he fills out, and gets into that 240 range like he easily can, his post game combined with his perimeter game will be unstoppable.


No I never said production. I said skillset. Yes one can argue that not that it the argument is conclusive.

If he gets into the 240 range he will lose quickness. If he develops into a 4 his jumpshooting days are probably over. It all depends how he chooses to develop but at this point in college one can argue that he has displayed his peak offensive skillset as a 3.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MemphisX said:


> FALSE! FALSE! FALSE!
> 
> There are not a bunch of Durants in the league. There are maybe 5 comparable talents: Dirk, T Mac, Kobe, LeBron, and Pierce. I am talking about versatile, volume scoring wings that can get their shot in traffic, off the dribble, in the post, on the break, driving, etc with high efficiency. Just like you have Duncan, Howard, Ming, and Shaq. If you are trying to say guys like Rashard Lewis, Ray Allen, Redd, and Melo (could be in the upper echelon) and similar players are comparable then the list of 'comparables' for Oden expands also.


Yeah, Durant is a rare talent, but the Oden species is downright endangered in the NBA. You can find a 7 swingman to Durant's 10, but it's alot harder to find comparable talent to Oden.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Bball_Doctor said:


> If he develops into a 4 his jumpshooting days are probably over. It all depends how he chooses to develop but at this point in college one can argue that he has displayed his peak offensive skillset as a 3.


He will never develop into a true PF, but he can play a 4 in-game with his height and ability to be a mismatch.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> This is where people begin to overestimate talent, automatically thinking a player will just gain another level because they're young. Durant will improve, but his offensive game isn't going to change as drastically as you'd think..


Yes this is why I put forth that potential argument.

Oden has much more area to improve on his offense than Durant which is why I mentioned their difference in ceiling as it applies to what they have shown so far and what their estimated potentials will be.

If Durant stays as a 3 I don't see his offensive skillset expanding too much more than what he has shown in college and this is a testament to his college success.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> He will never develop into a true PF, but he can play a 4 in-game with his height and ability to be a mismatch.


I agree but it is not impossible and why I always bring Baker's name up. But I think at this time it is certainly best to develop Durant as a starter at 3 with the ability to rotate to 4 during portions of the game like Worthy. It all depends on his height and whatever weight he manages to develop into as well. If he is a 3 I wouldn't want to see him at 240. He is not naturally built like Lebron. He will lose a lot of quickness and movement which would be devastating if he developed mainly as perimeter player. 225-235 like Melo okay but above 240 is stretching it. Plus how tall is he? Like I said if he really is above 6'10 then he can definitely rotate to 4 with no obvious mismatch but at 6'9 he would be considered undersized. Just think TMac at 4. Not that he will be unsuccessful despite being undersized that will depend more on how he develops his post offense and post defense (see Worthy).


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I've seen duncan show emotion many times, but I'm talking more about him accepting the fact that his opponents are pushing him around instead of getting mad, and doing something about it. I could care less if he screams like Tyrus Thomas, just fight back when someone bodies you up.


If you are honestly trying to tell me that Wisconsin's bigs have bodied up Oden and he has backed down you are crazy. I've watched every second of all 3 games as intently as one could watch them, and that's just not the case. Oden is still dominant even on the offensive glass. The only Wisconsin player that stands any kind of chance is 7'0'' 260 Greg Stiemsma. For a variety of reasons (very few having to do with his talent) he has been on the bench for most of his college career, but the kid is a shot blocking force, obviously very strong, and he WAS a top 10 national center prospect in his high school class. This is his 3rd year at Wisconsin, so he's had some time to develop. So he's given Oden a small problem on the offensive end, but Oden completely shut down any interior offense the Badgers tried and still got his points.


----------



## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Bball_Doctor said:


> It depends on the team which is why I mentioned Baker in several threads. People laughed at the Bucks for trying to turn Baker into a PF. Yet he became an all-star at that position and eventually could even man the 5 at times.
> 
> But I understand people wanting to keep Durant at the 3 and I also laughed at the Bucks but it is possible especially if Durant wants to add bulk and what is his height? Is it 6'9, 6'10, 6'11? I keep reading different things but if he is 6'10 and above a transition to 4 is not impossible. But as it is now it would probably be best to develop Durant as a 3 and if he adds weight and improves his post game he could rotate to 4 during portions of a game like Worthy. Right now Durant really looks like another Rashard Lewis and I believe he models his game after Lewis? If he continues toward that type of development and lives up to his full potential Rashard Lewis will probably be a poor man's Durant in the future.


Good point. I agree with the Lewis comparison, however I'd say Durant is better with his dribble right now. Lewis would be lethal if he could develop his handle, but he's failed to do so. That's the major difference between Lewis and what Durant will become. If Durant sticks on the perimeter I expect his handle to improve. I wouldn't stick Durant down low. The reason why he's rebounding so well? It has a lot to do with the team he is on and his length. He won't be as good a rebounder in the NBA.

Durant's height is somewhat of a mystery till this summer. He's at least 6'9. I'd say 6'10. Durant has said 7'. While a transition to the 4 is not impossible, I don't see why you'd do it. He's got a fantastic jumper, why make him develop a post game and add weight? He can score right now from the perimeter, and with an improved handle he'd be a serious threat. He could cover at the 4, but I wouldn't want him there extensively. Durant is patterning his game around McGrady. He makes it very clear in every single interview he does. I don't think it's a question of if Durant wants to add weight, he should get it up to 220 regardless of position. Being on the lighter side of 200 is shameful.

Vin Baker was a different build to Durant. Durant is obviously a hard gainer. Vin really had no trouble when asked to put on weight. Alcohol was obviously a helpful friend for Baker's pursuit of becoming 400 lbs. Baker's game was also very different at Hartford. He was never on the perimeter shooting threes like Durant. Durant is far more of a wing player.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Bball_Doctor said:


> No I never said production. I said skillset. Yes one can argue that not that it the argument is conclusive.
> 
> If he gets into the 240 range he will lose quickness. If he develops into a 4 his jumpshooting days are probably over. It all depends how he chooses to develop but at this point in college one can argue that he has displayed his peak offensive skillset as a 3.


LeBron is in the 240 range and is one of the quickest players in the league? Gaining muscle doesn't mean you lose quicknes bro.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Nimreitz said:


> If you are honestly trying to tell me that Wisconsin's bigs have bodied up Oden and he has backed down you are crazy. I've watched every second of all 3 games as intently as one could watch them, and that's just not the case. Oden is still dominant even on the offensive glass. The only Wisconsin player that stands any kind of chance is 7'0'' 260 Greg Stiemsma. For a variety of reasons (very few having to do with his talent) he has been on the bench for most of his college career, but the kid is a shot blocking force, obviously very strong, and he WAS a top 10 national center prospect in his high school class. This is his 3rd year at Wisconsin, so he's had some time to develop. So he's given Oden a small problem on the offensive end, but Oden completely shut down any interior offense the Badgers tried and still got his points.


Thanks for proving my point. If a bum like Steisma can muscle him up and push him around, NBA centers will have a field day.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Thanks for proving my point. If a bum like Steisma can muscle him up and push him around, NBA centers will have a field day.


He said Oden had a _small_ problem with him...you know he's still allowed to develop right, he won't stay like this forever.

So basically, you think Durant will turn into Dirk and Oden will just get muscled around?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> LeBron is in the 240 range and is one of the quickest players in the league? Gaining muscle doesn't mean you lose quicknes bro.


Lebron is a special case, not to mention he came into the league this size. It's harder to grow 20-30 pounds and maintain your previous speed, even though Durant isn't particularly a player who relies on speed anyway.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> Lebron is a special case, not to mention he came into the league this size. It's harder to grow 20-30 pounds and maintain your previous speed, even though Durant isn't particularly a player who relies on speed anyway.


Durant is currently playing at 225 (maybe more) that means he needs to add a mere 10-15 pounds to get into that ideal 235-240 range. Not 20-30 pounds, quit exagerrating. 10-15 pounds of muscle will not affect him the least bit when it comes to speed.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> He said Oden had a _small_ problem with him...you know he's still allowed to develop right, he won't stay like this forever.
> 
> So basically, you think Durant will turn into Dirk and Oden will just get muscled around?


I saw Oden have a pretty big problem with him, and looked very uncomfortable on the offensive end.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Durant is currently playing at 225 (maybe more) that means he needs to add a mere 10-15 pounds to get into that ideal 235-240 range. Not 20-30 pounds, quit exagerrating. 10-15 pounds of muscle will not affect him the least bit when it comes to speed.


Not at all, Durant is listed at 190, and I even gave him more than that when I said 20-30 pounds to get to 240. To go from 190 to 240, I don't care what you say, you'll take a hit on your athleticism and limberness.



> I saw Oden have a pretty big problem with him, and looked very uncomfortable on the offensive end.


Whatever, one off game doesn't break him. He's been a great defensive anchor all year. He's still young too, so he's not going to be dominating everyone he sees yet, especially not someone his same size. The reason he's highly touted is not because he dominates *now*, it's because he shows all the right signs of being able to do so, as with all prospects, so off play is to be expected.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> Not at all, Durant is listed at 190, and I even gave him more than that when I said 20-30 pounds to get to 240. To go from 190 to 240, I don't care what you say, you'll take a hit on your athleticism and limberness.
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, one off game doesn't break him. He's been a great defensive anchor all year. He's still young too, so he's not going to be dominating everyone he sees yet, especially not someone his same size. The reason he's highly touted is not because he dominates *now*, it's because he shows all the right signs of being able to do so, as with all prospects, so off play is to be expected.


Where you getting that 190 from buddy? His junior year of high school? He's been at 225 all season, and there's plenty of people that will back me on that. Here: http://www.texassports.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=16&change_well_id=17&member_id=974


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Thanks for proving my point. If a bum like Steisma can muscle him up and push him around, NBA centers will have a field day.


He's not a bum, but it doesn't matter anyway. Oden still completely went off on him when he wanted to.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Ok, fine, answer my other points.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Nimreitz said:


> He's not a bum, but it doesn't matter anyway. Oden still completely went off on him when he wanted to.


"When he wanted to" my point exactly, the guy has no consistent fire in him. Sure he looks great at times, but he floats for too much of the game offensivly. Why wouldn't he want to go off on him the entire game and demand the ball everytime if he can go off so easily on him?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> "When he wanted to" my point exactly, the guy has no consistent fire in him. Sure he looks great at times, but he floats for too much of the game offensivly. Why wouldn't he want to go off on him the entire game and demand the ball everytime if he can go off so easily on him?


Wow, we found the first Oden hater.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



_Dre_ said:


> Wow, we found the first Oden hater.


Anything but. I think he will have a awesome career, especially on the defensive end and rebounding. I just think his offensive game has a great deal to be desired.


----------



## urwhatueati8god

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> "When he wanted to" my point exactly, the guy has no consistent fire in him. Sure he looks great at times, but he floats for too much of the game offensivly. Why wouldn't he want to go off on him the entire game and demand the ball everytime if he can go off so easily on him?


Because they are the number one seed in the entire NCAA tournament, finished the season number one over all, and did all of this with Greg Oden doing exactly what he's doing now?
:whoknows: 
Winning is overrated: It's all about putting up ridiculous numbers.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



urwhatueati8god said:


> Because they are the number one seed in the entire NCAA tournament, finished the season number one over all, and did all of this with Greg Oden doing exactly what he's doing now?
> :whoknows:
> Winning is overrated: It's all about putting up ridiculous numbers.


Exactly! You can be the GM to draft JJ Redick number 1 overall if that's your philosophy!


----------



## SheriffKilla

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

ya Durant is bigger than he looks I honestly think those 6'10 225 numbers are real and he will measure out like that in the predraft camp.....

and when he does he will probably rise up way higher and challege oden even more...
(even though he will be like 6'8.75 w/o shoes or something)
honestly if i was Memphis i'd choose Durant first Durant, Gasol, Miller i think can make a very very dangerous Trio as well as Rudy Gay... 
but almost any other team i can think of that might get hte pick i see Oden as a better choice...

Pierce Oden = Shaq/Kobe, Wade, Penny????


----------



## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Some of you need to learn to use the ignore button.


----------



## dru_jones

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



fjkdsi said:


> Pierce Oden = Shaq/Kobe, Wade, Penny????


D West, G Green, P Pierce, A Jefferson, G Oden <= DJ, Ainge, Bird, McHale, Parish!!!

Go Celtics!!!


----------



## hirschmanz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Anything but. I think he will have a awesome career, especially on the defensive end and rebounding. I just think his offensive game has a great deal to be desired.


I agree, but its important to qualify this. His offensive game AT THIS POINT leaves a lot to be desired for a number one pick... he's still only 19. There is no reason he can't be taught a solid post game.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

You know HKF you can take PMs off.


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



hirschmanz said:


> I agree, but its important to qualify this. His offensive game AT THIS POINT leaves a lot to be desired for a number one pick... he's still only 19. There is no reason he can't be taught a solid post game.


He's better than Bogut was (and is).


----------



## bball2223

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I agree 100% with this title. Oden is going to be a Dikembe Mutombo type player in the NBA unless his offensive game improves dramtically. I know he is only 19 years old and he has been playing 90% of this season with one hand, but he has almost zero offensive game. He has the jumphook which he doesnt make frequently enough yet, and most of his offense is off of the penetration of Conley and Butler. Defensively he is ready for the NBA, but he would be an offensive liability at the NBA level for a year or two (ala Ben Wallace.)


----------



## Jizzy

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Keep in mind this guy is playing with one hand.

I think he'll start off as a Dikemebe Mutombo type, reboudner and shotblocker but eventually he'll be a sold 18 ppg scorer. 

People doubted Okafor and his offensive game, he came out pretty good. Maybe there's a wholeifferent side to Oden offensively which we havn't seen?


----------



## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



bball2223 said:


> I agree 100% with this title. Oden is going to be a Dikembe Mutombo type player in the NBA unless his offensive game improves dramtically. I know he is only 19 years old and he has been playing 90% of this season with one hand, but he has almost zero offensive game. He has the jumphook which he doesnt make frequently enough yet, and most of his offense is off of the penetration of Conley and Butler. Defensively he is ready for the NBA, but he would be an offensive liability at the NBA level for a year or two (ala Ben Wallace.)


People said this same mess about Dwight Howard and they were wrong then and they are wrong now. Dikembe Mutombo? Do you see how athletic Oden is? Some of you just need to give up this talent evaluating thing, because you are watching players like Oden, who are 19 and comparing them to Mutombo. Did you know what Dikembe was doing at 19? He wasn't even playing basketball. Oden is so much better at this age, it's not even funny.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



HKF said:


> People said this same mess about Dwight Howard and they were wrong then and they are wrong now. Dikembe Mutombo? Do you see how athletic Oden is? Some of you just need to give up this talent evaluating thing, because you are watching players like Oden, who are 19 and comparing them to Mutombo. Did you know what Dikembe was doing at 19? He wasn't even playing basketball. Oden is so much better at this age, it's not even funny.


Your opinion is also unfounded and baseless. You are going on the assumption that Oden will dramatically improved. How many prospects over the years have we said the same "potential" thing about and flopped? Hundreds! So before you insult others, maybe take a look at yourself next time.


----------



## Pimped Out

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



HKF said:


> People said this same mess about Dwight Howard and they were wrong then and they are wrong now. Dikembe Mutombo? Do you see how athletic Oden is? Some of you just need to give up this talent evaluating thing, because you are watching players like Oden, who are 19 and comparing them to Mutombo. Did you know what Dikembe was doing at 19? He wasn't even playing basketball. Oden is so much better at this age, it's not even funny.


by that same token though, people are going overboard the other way. people are giving the impression that oden will be a bigger inside presence the moment he enters the league than dwight is right now. im not saying you in particular are doing this. but its gotta be expected to see people overdo it on both sides when you have as hyped a prospect as oden.


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Considering Ohio State has no clue on how to feed the post, I'm not sure how people know inherently Oden's post game is "terrible". They consistently miss him when he has good position downlow


----------



## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I have been watching prospects for well over a decade. If I say what I say about Oden, it's because I believe it. I don't care about other prospects. I am talking about Oden. This reminds me of the people who were ripping Ben Gordon or Deron Williams or Josh Smith. When guys actually show work ethic and have talent, it's hard to go against them on this level.


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## rainman

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I dont think you need a great lowpost game to have a huge impact on a game, if people are looking for style points with Oden in that area you probably are going to be dissapointed.

I'm curious does todays game against Xavier(you could say a loss in terms of Oden's impact on the game)change anyones mind in the decision to take him or Durant? just curious.


----------



## HB

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Dwight plays soley on athleticism, and sometimes he struggles to put the ball in the basket. I wont be surprised if Oden goes through the same problems. Oden will be one heck of a defender, I dont know how anyone can pass up on that type of potential.

And call me crazy but I dont think he is better than Dwight


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

No, not right now he's not. 

But jeez, he's only 19...is he supposed to look like Hakeem Olajuwon already? You people are calling him Dikembe Mutombo because he doesn't obliverate everyone on the block. His game is more suited to the pros...OSU isn't really giving him the chance to develop as much as he could, because they're trying to do what they can to win, not be post school. Once he gets on the sixers or some team with no choice but to develop him he'll be fine IMO. He's athletic, mature, and has a good work ethic. Plus nowadays you don't need to be a great post scorer to necessarily put up great offensive numbers anymore.


----------



## Like A Breath

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

He has 2 inches on Dwight and has shown better shotblocking instincts. That alone makes all the difference with NBA scouts. But if even Dwight Howard can't lead his team to the playoffs 3 years in a row, I don't know if Oden alone is an instant championship-maker like he's made out to be.


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## rainman

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Like A Breath said:


> He has 2 inches on Dwight and has shown better shotblocking instincts. That alone makes all the difference with NBA scouts. But if even Dwight Howard can't lead his team to the playoffs 3 years in a row, I don't know if Oden alone is an instant championship-maker like he's made out to be.


Its too early to tell, you dont get the competition at the college level that you do at the pro level(understatement). He dominated in highschool but so did Lebron and he isnt winning a title anytime soon. I think Oden is going to be special but the only team that he's faced that had pro caliber players(Florida) he got run out of the gym.


----------



## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



bball2223 said:


> I agree 100% with this title. Oden is going to be a Dikembe Mutombo type player in the NBA unless his offensive game improves dramtically.


I don't know what to make of this. Dikembe's career average is 10.2ppg. There is no way Oden will be a liability on the offensive end coming in. Ben Wallace has zero offensive capabilities. Oden at least has a baby hook. A liability is someone who has a negative impact on the offensive end. Oden can at least post up and dunk. Wallace is undersized as a center, Oden is not. It's going to create problems.

It is seriously getting pointless trying to take the shutters off some of these horses.


----------



## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Pioneer10 said:


> Considering Ohio State has no clue on how to feed the post, I'm not sure how people know inherently Oden's post game is "terrible". They consistently miss him when he has good position downlow


Amen.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Fun & games from Celtics Blog (forum slogan "If you're an idiot, and a Celtics fan, this is the place for you!")



Tommy Gun said:


> I am still waiting for Oden to take over a game and just DOMINATE..He seems to have a real passive game, he is not real active on either end, in fact he dogs it up and down the floor..He just does not seem athletically gifted as every one makes him, ou tto be..
> 
> I watched a less skilled AND HYPED Hibbeert take ovet the game agianst BC...Then I watched Tim Duncan and the Spurs play the Cs.. These people that compare Oden to Duncan are out of thier mind...Duncan is 1000x the athlete...
> 
> To me Oden compares to Erick Dampier with more upside. he is slow and does'nt move...He needs a personal trainer and a lot of work


Yeah, Greg Hibbert was able to run roughshod over a BC team playing without Sean Williams, Akita McLain, & Shamari Spears. He'll definitely be worlds better than Oden. :lol: 

But wait! There's more!



Tommy Gun said:


> But beside the lack of touches and a obvious boring system Thad Motta plays...Oden is not an active player, he is not relentless on the glass, he does'nt run the floor, he is not a quick leaper..Sure he is big and clogs up the middle...If he was'nt 7 feet tall his stock would be way down...Take away a broken hand and the slow down ztyle..
> 
> At the core it just does'nt seem like he has a fire lit under his ***...Play with some passion
> 
> In fact Xavier should have won the game if A. the kid hit a free throw..B if the coach was smart enough to foul ahead 3 trading 2 points for basically running out the clock..C. Oden should have been called for an intentional foul at the end 2 and the ball
> 
> But how do you lose with the over all #1 pick basically being a NON factor?


Not satisfied with two doses of ignorance, the jackalope went for the hat trick...



Tommy Gun said:


> So he shoots lefty...He is'nt physical he does'nt get after it for all his size and strength he does'nt bang anyone around..IMO he stands around quite a bit.. I question his heart
> 
> I want to see him matchup against Florida, UNC or Kansas where they have mobile big men...
> 
> 
> College ball is more guard orientated no doubt...But C'MON you got the big fella use him for Chrissakes


Sadly, you really can fit all of the intelligent Celtic fans in the world into a luxury box at the TD Banknorth Garden. And still have room left over for strippers.


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I'm not sold on Durant, as much as I' am with Oden. 

1. Many people say they haven't seen a colege player dominate like Darant does in a long time, but that can be a little tricky because This is the first year where player had to go to college, who knows if a Josh Smith, Dorrell Wright, or a Shaun Livingston went to college, they be dominating as much as Durant is.

2. He's playing in a weak confrence, I bet if Marvin Williams, played in the BIG 12, and was the MAn from day 1, he be putting up the same numbers Duarant is.

3. One thing i've notice about Durant is while he puts up sexy numbers, he doesn't really have that will, to win. He's not a player that will always find a way to get the W, even if he hits the game wiinning basket or not. You look at K.G, T-mac, A.I they always put up these big numbers, but no matter how good the suppourting cast, you just couldn't win championships with them. You look at Shaq, Duncun, Hakkem , you put a good suppourting cast around them you win a championship with them, thats how I see Oden.

4/ He's very thin, and having to play aganist players who are bigger than him every night, I don't think hell be able t handle a 82 game schedule.

Don't get me wrong I think he'll be a great player in this leauge, I just think he's being a little to overhyped.

I perfer oden for these reasons:

1. He's a winner, He's won 3 straight HS state titles, and his team didn't lose a game in those 3 years. Ypu can definitley win Champuionships with this guy, He's not the type that dominates the ball to much, but when he needs to he'll take over a game.

2. He's a once in a generation center. He's been compare to the likes of Karrem, Russell, Ewing, you don't see prospect getting compared to those player every year, but what you do see, is a very athletic SF/PF every year in the draft (2003-Carmelo, Lebron, Josh Howard, 2004-Josh Smith, 2005-Marvin Williams, 2006 Rudy Gay, 2007 Kevin Durant, 2008 probably Michael Beasley).

3. He's going to be a dominate definsive player for years to come, and while he's not very polished on Offense, he's athletisim will, help him succeed on the Offensive end alone, sort of like Dwight Howard.

So in the end of the day, you have to take Oden over Durant, you just can't take big over small, espically if the other guy body isn't even ready for the pros. Marvin Williams seem to have all the tools, had no major weakness, and even a more NBA ready body than body than Durant, but he's just starting to come along. While you look at somebody similar to Oden, in Dwight Howard, he was ready from day 1.


----------



## Pimped Out

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



o.iatlhawksfan said:


> I'm not sold on Durant, as much as I' am with Oden.
> 
> 1. Many people say they haven't seen a colege player dominate like Darant does in a long time, but that can be a little tricky because This is the first year where player had to go to college, who knows if a Josh Smith, Dorrell Wright, or a Shaun Livingston went to college, they be dominating as much as Durant is.
> 
> 2. He's playing in a weak confrence, I bet if Marvin Williams, played in the BIG 12, and was the MAn from day 1, he be putting up the same numbers Duarant is.
> 
> 3. One thing i've notice about Durant is while he puts up sexy numbers, he doesn't really have that will, to win. He's not a player that will always find a way to get the W, even if he hits the game wiinning basket or not. You look at K.G, T-mac, A.I they always put up these big numbers, but no matter how good the suppourting cast, you just couldn't win championships with them. You look at Shaq, Duncun, Hakkem , you put a good suppourting cast around them you win a championship with them, thats how I see Oden.
> 
> 4/ He's very thin, and having to play aganist players who are bigger than him every night, I don't think hell be able t handle a 82 game schedule.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I think he'll be a great player in this leauge, I just think he's being a little to overhyped.
> 
> I perfer oden for these reasons:
> 
> 1. He's a winner, He's won 3 straight HS state titles, and his team didn't lose a game in those 3 years. Ypu can definitley win Champuionships with this guy, He's not the type that dominates the ball to much, but when he needs to he'll take over a game.
> 
> 2. He's a once in a generation center. He's been compare to the likes of Karrem, Russell, Ewing, you don't see prospect getting compared to those player every year, but what you do see, is a very athletic SF/PF every year in the draft (2003-Carmelo, Lebron, Josh Howard, 2004-Josh Smith, 2005-Marvin Williams, 2006 Rudy Gay, 2007 Kevin Durant, 2008 probably Michael Beasley).
> 
> 3. He's going to be a dominate definsive player for years to come, and while he's not very polished on Offense, he's athletisim will, help him succeed on the Offensive end alone, sort of like Dwight Howard.
> 
> So in the end of the day, you have to take Oden over Durant, you just can't take big over small, espically if the other guy body isn't even ready for the pros. Marvin Williams seem to have all the tools, had no major weakness, and even a more NBA ready body than body than Durant, but he's just starting to come along. While you look at somebody similar to Oden, in Dwight Howard, he was ready from day 1.


:whoknows: at least your posts have humor value.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> LeBron is in the 240 range and is one of the quickest players in the league? Gaining muscle doesn't mean you lose quicknes bro.


You cannot compare Durant with Lebron. 

Lebron's physique is unique. Durant looks to be a hard gainer. If he adds to much weight to his natural frame he will lose quickness and as a perimeter player you don't want that.


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Lachlanwood32 said:


> Good point. I agree with the Lewis comparison, however I'd say Durant is better with his dribble right now. Lewis would be lethal if he could develop his handle, but he's failed to do so. That's the major difference between Lewis and what Durant will become. If Durant sticks on the perimeter I expect his handle to improve. I wouldn't stick Durant down low. The reason why he's rebounding so well? It has a lot to do with the team he is on and his length. He won't be as good a rebounder in the NBA.
> 
> Durant's height is somewhat of a mystery till this summer. He's at least 6'9. I'd say 6'10. Durant has said 7'. While a transition to the 4 is not impossible, I don't see why you'd do it. He's got a fantastic jumper, why make him develop a post game and add weight? He can score right now from the perimeter, and with an improved handle he'd be a serious threat. He could cover at the 4, but I wouldn't want him there extensively. Durant is patterning his game around McGrady. He makes it very clear in every single interview he does. I don't think it's a question of if Durant wants to add weight, he should get it up to 220 regardless of position. Being on the lighter side of 200 is shameful.
> 
> Vin Baker was a different build to Durant. Durant is obviously a hard gainer. Vin really had no trouble when asked to put on weight. Alcohol was obviously a helpful friend for Baker's pursuit of becoming 400 lbs. Baker's game was also very different at Hartford. He was never on the perimeter shooting threes like Durant. Durant is far more of a wing player.


Durant's dribble is better but I won't say it is more advanced. I agree that he won't be as good of a rebounder in the NBA as in college. I think using college stats to gauge NBA production is faulty. 

220-225 sounds about the right weight Durant should be in the pros. Like I said 240 is a bit much. Although he is listed I think at 210, TMac is probably 220-225 and not much shorter than Durant. As for developing into a 4 it depends on whatever team drafts him but I tend to agree that starting at 3 is perhaps his best position at this stage of his development. 

Regarding Baker he was actually quite skinny in college but you may be right in that his frame is naturally bigger and perhaps easier to gain weight than Durant's. I am not a doctor so I can't say anything conclusive regarding that. When Vin started his rookie year I think he put on enough to be close to 235 but he around 215-220 in college his senior year. He was barely 200 in his freshman year and if Durant is really 225 then he is already MUCH heavier than Baker was at the same age. As for his game in college he was definitely a perimeter player. I remember watching him and reading scouting reports of him back in 94' since I really started following the draft around that time. He was always projected as a SF prospect and had a jump shot like a SG. He didn't take as many threes as Durant but nevertheless he was still a perimeter/jumpshooter player. He is quite similar to Durant but Durant is much more advanced at his age (therefore having more potential), more athletic, more range, and better dribbles (although Vin's dribbles were not bad in college but due to his development as PF in the pros his dribbles became less evident).


----------



## Bball_Doctor

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



bball2223 said:


> I agree 100% with this title. Oden is going to be a Dikembe Mutombo type player in the NBA unless his offensive game improves dramtically. I know he is only 19 years old and he has been playing 90% of this season with one hand, but he has almost zero offensive game. He has the jumphook which he doesnt make frequently enough yet, and most of his offense is off of the penetration of Conley and Butler. Defensively he is ready for the NBA, but he would be an offensive liability at the NBA level for a year or two (ala Ben Wallace.)


People forget that Mutombo averaged 17 PPG in his rookie year and he probably could have averaged around that for much of his career but the thing about Mutombo was that he knew his role and he never deviated from his strengths (i.e. he knew his limits). 

Mutombo's offense is Oden's floor. Mutombo's defense is Oden's potential. It is not silly to compare Oden to Mutombo as long as Mutombo is not used as a comparison for Oden's ceiling. 

Honestly, Oden's offense is just about as good as Howard's now and Amare's in his rookie year. If Oden declared for this year's draft and if we were to project his production potential based on his development as it is now I would expect him to get 13-15 PPG in the NBA. His size and athleticism will let him get away with things even in the pros but he just wouldn't be able to exploit defenders as much as he does in college and if his teammates fed him the ball more he could probably be closer to 18-20 PPG in his freshman year especially with a healthy wrist. But the thing great about Oden and I have already touched on this is his attitude to improve and learn and unlike Mutombo we don't know Oden's offensive limits yet. Now combine that with Oden's willingness to learn and improve...


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



o.iatlhawksfan said:


> I'm not sold on Durant, as much as I' am with Oden.


Ouch, bad post. Weren't you the guy defending the Sheldon Williams pick last year? Okay, point by point.



> 1. Many people say they haven't seen a colege player dominate like Darant does in a long time, but that can be a little tricky because This is the first year where player had to go to college, who knows if a Josh Smith, Dorrell Wright, or a Shaun Livingston went to college, they be dominating as much as Durant is.


I guarantee that Smith, Wright, and Livingston wouldn't have done what Durant is doing. Wright hasn't played in the league yet, which is telling for him, Smith and Livingston can't shoot now. They REALLY couldn't shoot when they were NBA rookies. I don't see any straight to NBA player I feel could have been this dominant in college straight away. Kobe and Lebron are probably the only ones who COULD have done it. Melo was close (check the stats) but wasn't stepping up his production in the conference season.



> 2. He's playing in a weak confrence, I bet if Marvin Williams, played in the BIG 12, and was the MAn from day 1, he be putting up the same numbers Duarant is.


I don't think so, but it's debatable. Marvin can't really take guys off the dribble like Durant can, so he's not someone as a college freshman you could have given the ball to and just gotten out of his way. Durant creates for himself, Marvin couldn't do that at that point in his career.



> 3. One thing i've notice about Durant is while he puts up sexy numbers, he doesn't really have that will, to win. He's not a player that will always find a way to get the W, even if he hits the game wiinning basket or not. You look at K.G, T-mac, A.I they always put up these big numbers, but no matter how good the suppourting cast, you just couldn't win championships with them. You look at Shaq, Duncun, Hakkem , you put a good suppourting cast around them you win a championship with them, thats how I see Oden.


That's a terrible argument. You disregard winning shots and just claim some innate and unmeasurable quality in certain players that others don't have. A.I. led a team of bums to the NBA Finals. Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem are probably the three best players since the end of the Dream Team era not named Jordan. Of course they won. Winning just went along with being so damn good. Suppose Jordan didn't retire the first time and the Bulls pulled off the 8-Peat. Hakeem as a player wouldn't change a bit, but he wouldn't have a Championship. I'm sure you would have put him in the first group then even though NOTHING was different about him.



> 4/ He's very thin, and having to play aganist players who are bigger than him every night, I don't think hell be able t handle a 82 game schedule.


It's a legit concern I guess, but not really for a wing. He's not as frail as Shawn Livingston and there are much weaker guys playing wing in the NBA. He won't be banging, and he won't be throwing his body around in the lane on drives like A.I. either.



> I perfer oden for these reasons:
> 
> 1. He's a winner, He's won 3 straight HS state titles, and his team didn't lose a game in those 3 years. Ypu can definitley win Champuionships with this guy, He's not the type that dominates the ball to much, but when he needs to he'll take over a game.


Want to know what Kevin Durant did in high school, just look at his Wikipedia:

"A basketball player from his earliest days, Durant played for a very successful AAU youth basketball team. Durant's team, the PG Jaguars, *won multiple national championships* and included fellow blue chip recruits Michael Beasley (Kansas State) and Chris Braswell (Georgetown). Durant later moved on to play AAU ball with fellow McDonald's All American Tywon Lawson (North Carolina) for the DC Blue Devils. During this time Durant also starred for the Oak Hill Academy basketball team, *which won the 2005 USA Today National Championship.*"



> 2. He's a once in a generation center. He's been compare to the likes of Karrem, Russell, Ewing, you don't see prospect getting compared to those player every year, but what you do see, is a very athletic SF/PF every year in the draft (2003-Carmelo, Lebron, Josh Howard, 2004-Josh Smith, 2005-Marvin Williams, 2006 Rudy Gay, 2007 Kevin Durant, 2008 probably Michael Beasley).


That's a legitimate argument I feel, but I still need to remind you that comparisons don't mean anything.



> 3. He's going to be a dominate definsive player for years to come, and while he's not very polished on Offense, he's athletisim will, help him succeed on the Offensive end alone, sort of like Dwight Howard.


Stop with the talking points!! Did you guys go to Republican Pundit basketball school? Watch the kid play, he has a pretty solid offensive game. Oden has put up 15.5/10 this year despite his teammates not passing him the ball in the post, and having a BROKEN SHOOTING HAND for the entire year.



> So in the end of the day, you have to take Oden over Durant, you just can't take big over small, espically if the other guy body isn't even ready for the pros. Marvin Williams seem to have all the tools, had no major weakness, and even a more NBA ready body than body than Durant, but he's just starting to come along. While you look at somebody similar to Oden, in Dwight Howard, he was ready from day 1.


Marvin Williams did have weaknesses. As I said earlier, he did not have guard skills except for a decent outside shot. He never consistently took guys off the dribble and created his own pull up jumper at the college level. He certainly never pulled up from 3 Point range like Durant does. They are not the same player, and they will play different positions and have different roles in the NBA. The comparison makes no sense and should not color your view of Durant.


----------



## BEEZ

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

What do you mean Wright hasnt played in the league yet?


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

One concern with Durant is will he have problems as a "tweener" btw the 3 and 4? Too tall to guard the 3 and too light to guard the 4.
But on the other hand with the right coach he'll hopefully make the other team adjust to Durant on offense rather then get punished on defense.

That being said Durant's skill level and "intangibles" like good hands are lot lot better then guys like Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Rudy Gay


----------



## BEEZ

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Pioneer10 said:


> One concern with Durant is will he have problems as a "tweener" btw the 3 and 4? Too tall to guard the 3 and too light to guard the 4.
> But on the other hand with the right coach he'll hopefully make the other team adjust to Durant on offense rather then get punished on defense.
> 
> That being said Durant's skill level and "intangibles" like good hands are lot lot better then guys like Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Rudy Gay


Durant will NEVER be the defensive disruptor that Josh Smith is right now in his entire career. He will be an equal maybe a little bit lesser rebounder and more of a scorer but everything else I would lean Josh Smith favor at this point


----------



## HB

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Durant is 18, lots of time for improvement. He doesnt seem to like to pass from what I have seen of him so far.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BEEZ said:


> Durant will NEVER be the defensive disruptor that Josh Smith is right now in his entire career. He will be an equal maybe a little bit lesser rebounder and more of a scorer but everything else I would lean Josh Smith favor at this point


Pretty much. I tend to believe that generally you get a good idea of what a player can do in college..so if he was going to be a Smith type of force with blocks and stat stuffing, he'd be doing it at least in a lesser fashion. I think Smith is better than him on defense and will continue to be. I see some DPOY consideration from Smith in the future, so yeah.....


----------



## Nimreitz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BEEZ said:


> What do you mean Wright hasnt played in the league yet?


That 3 years in Dorell Wright still doesn't get many minutes. Even without Wade in there he isn't playing many minutes.


----------



## BigMike

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Personally, I disagree with two knocks on Durant's game that have been brought up.

1.) Too laid-back, no killer instinct
2.) Won't be a good defender.

The first one...I mean, he's not the visibly riled up, trash-talking type. He's a rather quiet kid by nature I guess. But late in games this year, he's taken and made some big three point shots. 2nd half in the marathon vs. OKSt. he was huge. Absolutely destroyed TT down the stretch when they played in Lubbock. 2nd game vs. Texas A&M he got to the line repeatedly down the stretch, and had a huge 3 late in regulation that should've won the game except for the heroics of Acie Law (stud). Had the game-winning 3 vs. OK St. in the Big 12 tournament.

And look at the guy's body. I don't think he'll ever be a great 1-on-1 defender...not quick enough to guard the good perimeter guys, and too thin to bang with the bigs. However, I think he'll have a Kirilenko-type impact down the road. Maybe not ever at that level, but he's a good athlete, and is as long as it gets. He already gets a fair amount of blocks and steals with his length, and I think he'll be able to do that down the road if he commits to it and becomes more seasoned on the defensive end.


----------



## Tmac4MVP1

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

there wasnt really a wrong choice when you took either lebron, carmelo or wade, was there? i mean those franchises, being miami, cleveland and denver, were in terrible condition before their "franchise" player came through that draft. i dont see how choosing durant over oden or oden over durant could possibly get any GM fired within the near future. both of these prospects are going to be studs in the NBA. Durant is a versatile scorer who is WAAAAY more than just a perimeter player and Oden will dominate the paint on both ends within time. theres no wrong decision here, the team that picks 1st will need to decide which position they need to fill more


----------



## DavidCain

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

oden is a once in a decade prdpect because hes a big man

as talented as durant is theres decent amount of durants who come by and who are in the league t mac etc

you win with great domiant big men,if oden becomes that and u pass on him youll coem out looking awful

as good as durant is unless youre jordan you rarely win titles building around wing players..


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



DavidCain said:


> oden is a once in a decade prdpect because hes a big man
> 
> as talented as durant is theres decent amount of durants who come by and who are in the league t mac etc
> 
> you win with great domiant big men,if oden becomes that and u pass on him youll coem out looking awful
> 
> as good as durant is unless youre jordan you rarely win titles building around wing players..


Or Larry Bird, a big man is not a neccesity to winning a title. Especially in this new quicker paced NBA game.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Bball_Doctor said:


> You cannot compare Durant with Lebron.
> 
> Lebron's physique is unique. Durant looks to be a hard gainer. If he adds to much weight to his natural frame he will lose quickness and as a perimeter player you don't want that.


If he's a hard gainer then why did he put on 20 pounds of muscle in a couple months with UT's strenghth trainer? Adding 10-15 more pounds will not be a problem, and he has the frame to do it.


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## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Larry Bird played with Kevin McHale, Robert Parish and Bill Walton. All 3 are HOF big men. I'm not sure what your point was.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



HKF said:


> Larry Bird played with Kevin McHale, Robert Parish and Bill Walton. All 3 are HOF big men. I'm not sure what your point was.


Oh yeah, Bill Walton really contributed to that team. LOL The point is that the team was built around Larry Bird, and Bird is the reason they won. You take him away and that team wouldn't be crap. You take away Parrish and McHale, and I still believe Bird could have gotten it done with lesser big men in the same way Jordan did.


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## Oldmangrouch

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Oden's biggest problem may be the unrealistic expectations being set for him. If he is "only" as good as Dwight Howard or Amare (or Mutombo), many people will bash him as a total failure.

That is *not* a fair burden to place on any teenager. People forget that Hakeem and Duncan didn't enter the league after their freshman year. Their games (and their bodies) were more mature. It was easier for them to make an immediate impact.


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## Nimreitz

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> You take him away and that team wouldn't be crap.


That is so wrong.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Nimreitz said:


> That is so wrong.


They'd be ok, a playoff team, but you can't deny Bird took them to greatness.


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## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Greg Oden is just an impact player. It's hard to imagine him being on a bad team unless he is injury prone and doesn't play enough games. There is just so many teams in the league, even the bad ones, who have good guards and wings. They're a dime a dozen. A strong, athletic big man with great timing on blocked shots, who keeps opponents out of the paint, is probably the most valuable thing you can have. Combine that with the attention he draws on offense, even when he doesn't have the ball, just because of his hands, agility and ability to go get anything around the rim. His back to the basket game is also underrated. 

I mean really, give Joe Johnson a guy like Greg Oden and see what happens. Hawks become a defensive force, while Johnson has a big man to run a very effective pick and roll with. Gasol and Oden isn't even fair. Sonics turn to instant contenders with Oden. Ray, Shard, and company just need that middle man. 

This is no knock on Durant. He has superstar written all over him, but wings are a dime a dozen and players of Oden's ability and impact are truly rare.


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## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

You just said that McHale and Parish were nothing and you expect people to take you seriously. I don't know what else to say.


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## BEEZ

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Oh yeah, Bill Walton really contributed to that team. LOL The point is that the team was built around Larry Bird, and Bird is the reason they won. You take him away and that team wouldn't be crap. You take away Parrish and McHale, and I still believe Bird could have gotten it done with lesser big men in the same way Jordan did.


Someone doesnt know too much basketball history


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BEEZ said:


> Someone doesnt know too much basketball history


Has nothing to do with history, merely speaking about hypotheticals.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



HKF said:


> You just said that McHale and Parish were nothing and you expect people to take you seriously. I don't know what else to say.


Where exactly did I say they were nothing son?


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## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BEEZ said:


> Someone doesnt know too much basketball history


BEEZ this chap is a laugh riot. Just so damn ignorant, it's embarrassing.


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## cpawfan

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

*I'm sick and tired of reading threads in my forum that get turned into crap because people can't play well with others. If this continues, suspensions will come quick and they will last for a long time.

I'm generally easy to get along with, but continuing to **** in my forum will not be tolerated. If you have any questions about whether or not this post applies to you, then it probably does. Any questions, PM me. *


----------



## Amareca

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Just saw Ford and Simmons talking about it, they think the only teams that would pick Durant first are Phoenix and Houston and that Phoenix would do everything to trade up from #4 to #2, meaning #4 and Shawn Marion for #2 and contracts.


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## rainman

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Amareca said:


> Just saw Ford and Simmons talking about it, they think the only teams that would pick Durant first are Phoenix and Houston and that Phoenix would do everything to trade up from #4 to #2, meaning #4 and Shawn Marion for #2 and contracts.


Where do i begin to disagree, first of all there are other teams who would take Durant or do you think Ainge and MJ are in the business of just pissing money away? Second, The Suns arent going to get anyone to trade down with them by dangling Shawn Marion, not sure if that is your idea or Ford and Simmons, regardless it isnt happening. Lastly dont listen to anyone from ESPN we have much better info on here and its free.


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## Gtown07

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

How can anyone still be siding w Durant?


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## Wade County

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I still believe that it will depend on who gets the top pick in the draft. 

Grizz - Oden
Celtics - Oden
Bobcats - Durant
Bucks - Durant
Suns/Hawks - Durant/Oden
Sonics - Oden..possibly Durant if Lewis is gonna leave
76ers - Oden
Trailblazers - Oden
Kings - Oden
Bulls - Durant


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## jsm27

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



BG44 said:


> I still believe that it will depend on who gets the top pick in the draft.
> 
> Grizz - Oden
> Celtics - Oden
> Bobcats - Durant
> Bucks - Durant
> Suns/Hawks - Durant/Oden
> Sonics - Oden..possibly Durant if Lewis is gonna leave
> 76ers - Oden
> Trailblazers - Oden
> Kings - Oden
> *Bulls - Durant*


The Bulls taking Oden over Durant is probably one of the surest scenarios for any team potentially picking in the lottery. With Oden, they immediately become a Championship contender and very close to a favorite.


----------



## whiterhino

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Oden is gonna go #1, Durant will go #2 and both will be future Hall of Famers, you can't go wrong with #1 or #2 this year as long as they both come out.


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## lw32

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

I'm expecting the Oden bandwagon to pick up steam again now...


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## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Lachlanwood32 said:


> I'm expecting the Oden bandwagon to pick up steam again now...


For good reason.


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## Ghost

*My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*

This is a Article I wrote on Why I would take Kevin Durant with the Number 1 Pick(Purely opinion, I also know that Oden WILL go number 1, and If I were a GM I think I would be forced to take Oden)

Hope it causes some interest, Feedback please, it hasn't been edited yet.

Kevin Durant – Why he should go Number 1

In the upcoming NBA Draft the top 2 prospects are a lock, Kevin Durant and Greg Oden will go 1-2 in the Draft in some order. Kevin Durant was the Player of the Year and the Freshman of the year in College, He can come into the NBA and be a big time offensive threat due to his unique set of size and skills. Durant never scored under 10 points in a game while Greg Oden did this 5 times even with his dominating size which will be less of a factor in the NBA. Kevin Durant scored over 20 points in 30 games(he played 35 games this season) and he scored over 30 points 11 times this season including a season high of 37 in four different games. He had great percentages of 47% from the field, 81% from the Free Throw Line, and 40% from 3 point Range.

Greg Oden is taller and bigger than Kevin Durant, but Kevin Durant grabbed more rebounds per game than the seven foot Greg Oden. Durant almost got 2 more rebounds per game than Greg Oden. Kevin Durant is also not prone to foul trouble like Greg Oden is. The only area where Greg Oden is more NBA ready than Kevin Durant is on defense, Oden will go into the league as a very good defender, he will be able to guard every center in the league 1 on 1 besides Shaq. Kevin Durant although being a worse defender than Greg Oden, he made leaps and bounds during the season, he is a good on the ball defender and with his long arms I think he will become a deadly help defender much like Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks.

With Greg Oden being foul prone and not ready to be a dominate force on the offensive end, I don’t think he will ever be a big man that you can depend on down the stretch to get that key bucket in the 4th quarter, much like how Free Throw shooting stopped Shaq from being the focal point of his team’s offense in the 4th quarter, I think Greg Oden’s lack of a true go to move will hold him back from becoming this generations version of Hakeem Olajuwon or Moses Malone, a big man who can be a focal point of the offense in the 4th quarter. In todays game most big men have a guard who take over in the 4th quarter. With Kevin Durant, you have a player who can be a team’s number 1 option and can guard multiple positions on the floor. He can guard small forwards and power forwards.

I also don’t think that Greg Oden is a “once in a lifetime center” or a “prospect that comes around once in every 10 years”, There are always going to be big men in the draft that are almost as good as Oden, Dwight Howard was not as polished when he came into the league, but he has a chance to get a dominating center in the NBA. There are certain players that you know that will never come around again in your lifetime, and it is a small list that contains Oscar Robertson, Allen Iverson, Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan, and Magic Johnson. Greg Oden is never going to be on that list. I think Kevin Durant is more of a rare talent than Greg Oden, Kevin Durant to me is a combo of Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett, somewhat like a Dirk Nowitzki with heart. Kevin Durant should be the number 1 pick, GM’s needs to look past the seven feet of Greg Oden and make the right pick.


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## Dee-Zy

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*

As much as I agree that Oden's only go to move is essentially the putback dunk, I dissagree that he is not somebody that you can go to late in the 4th quarter. Perhaps less in his rookie year, but he has proved me wrong over and over in the games I have watched him (most were really close games). He may be raw, but he has shown that he is able to perform very well under pressure and steps up when it counts. Sinking key FT, making baskets. 

I am much more of a fan of Durant and I'll be very happy if he goes first, but truth is, it is stupid not to get Oden #1.


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## YoYoYoWasup

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*

I agree with you somewhat. I too don't think Oden is a once-in-a-lifetime talent, nor do I think he is the best Center prospect since Kareem (which many called him coming out of high school). To me, the player he mostly resembles is Patrick Ewing, and not David Robinson. Like Ewing, he's an intimidating defensive prescence with a huge wing span, but while he's very athletic for a 7 footer, he's not in David Robinson's league athletically, nor does he have the face up game D-Rob had. Robinson was one of the top 3 athletically gifted centers in the history of basketball.

All that being said, Patrick Ewing was still a damn good player and, in his prime, would be the best true Center in the league right now, rather easily.


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## cpawfan

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*



Ghost said:


> In the upcoming NBA Draft the top 2 prospects are a lock, Kevin Durant and Greg Oden will go 1-2 in the Draft in some order. Kevin Durant was the Player of the Year and the Freshman of the year in College, He can come into the NBA and be a big time offensive threat due to his unique set of size and skills. Durant never scored under 10 points in a game while Greg Oden did this 5 times even with his dominating size which will be less of a factor in the NBA. Kevin Durant scored over 20 points in 30 games(he played 35 games this season) and he scored over 30 points 11 times this season including a season high of 37 in four different games. He had great percentages of 47% from the field, 81% from the Free Throw Line, and 40% from 3 point Range.


The problem with this paragraph is that it doesn't present the players in a balanced fashion. I realize you are trying to make a persuasive argument, but to anyone with even the slightest knowledge of these players, it is obvious that you aren't even attempting to be balanced in presenting your case. Any discussion of his offense should have the information about Oden's wrist and the time he missed.


----------



## rebelsun

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*

Durant's numbers are also inflated because he was not playing on a great college team, unlike Oden. Kevin was basically given the green light for 40 minutes, whereas Oden had perimeter guys failing to give him the ball as much as they should have.

Durant's game is sexier, but if the goal is to win championships, huge, athletic, post beasts are the safer bet.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*



RebelSun said:


> Durant's numbers are also inflated because he was not playing on a great college team, unlike Oden. Kevin was basically given the green light for 40 minutes, whereas Oden had perimeter guys failing to give him the ball as much as they should have.
> 
> Durant's game is sexier, but if the goal is to win championships, huge, athletic, post beasts are the safer bet.


I disagree.

The path to a championship in the NBA is simple...have the best player in the league and surround him with talented players. It does not matter if it is a PG, wing or center.

I think Oden already has a go to move, the jump hook. I think he is more advanced than Howard and a notch below athletically.

I, however, would also take Kevin Durant #1 simply because I think he will be a dominant force in the NBA from day 1. I compare him to Larry Legend.


----------



## Ghost

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*



cpawfan said:


> The problem with this paragraph is that it doesn't present the players in a balanced fashion. I realize you are trying to make a persuasive argument, but to anyone with even the slightest knowledge of these players, it is obvious that you aren't even attempting to be balanced in presenting your case. Any discussion of his offense should have the information about Oden's wrist and the time he missed.



Thanks for the constructive advice, I was thinking about his wrist injury at the time, and I thought i put something in there about it but I must of spaced it.


----------



## Avalanche

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*

personally i would want the number 2 pick in the draft, id take durant regardless but that way theres no pressure lol


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*



Avalanche said:


> personally i would want the number 2 pick in the draft, id take durant regardless but that way theres no pressure lol


This is the truth. No NBA GM has the cajones to take Durant #1. You just can't do it and I understand. However, as a ticket buying fan, I would rather watch Durant for the next decade.


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## Avalanche

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*



MemphisX said:


> This is the truth. No NBA GM has the cajones to take Durant #1. You just can't do it and I understand. However, as a ticket buying fan, I would rather watch Durant for the next decade.


personally i think durant could end up actually having the better career.. oden is a sure fire all star and definately something special, but theres just something about KD.
as a wolves fan id preffer to have Durant, either one is a sure fire pick though so i dont think theres a right or wrong choice here

but yeah i dont think anyone would have the guts to pick durant number 1, they might trade the one for the 2 and extras... score an extra player and still get the pick you wanted


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## Dee-Zy

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*

when was a first pick overall traded before or during the draft?


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## darlets

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*



Ghost said:


> while Greg Oden did this 5 times even with his dominating size which will be less of a factor in the NBA.





Ghost said:


> With Greg Oden being foul prone


After his rookie season the N.B.A refs will let him play. Whilst he'll loses some of his size advantage he'll gain in his ability to be physical.



Ghost said:


> He had great percentages of 47% from the field, 81% from the Free Throw Line, and 40% from 3 point Range.


Oden's % weren't exactly shabby. If you're going to quote figures to back up your case, compare them please.
Oden was .616 fg%
.628 ft% some of which was with his left hand



Ghost said:


> Greg Oden is taller and bigger than Kevin Durant, but Kevin Durant grabbed more rebounds per game than the seven foot Greg Oden. Durant almost got 2 more rebounds per game than Greg Oden.


Kevin grabbed
11.1 rebounds per game in 35.9 minutes at 0.309 rebounds per minute
Greg grabbed
9.6 (1 and half less, not two) in 28.9 minutes at 0.332



Ghost said:


> Kevin Durant is also not prone to foul trouble like Greg Oden is.


N.B.A refs don't call the tiggy touch crap the college refs call. He'll get rookie calls in his first year but being a great shot blocker he'll start getting the benefit of the doubt soon enough.



Ghost said:


> The only area where Greg Oden is more NBA ready than Kevin Durant is on defense,


Defense being half the game.



Ghost said:


> Oden will go into the league as a very good defender, he will be able to guard every center in the league 1 on 1 besides Shaq.


Yep, so his team won't have to double the other teams post scorer. That would be a rather huge advantage to have??? yes?????

In regards to his offensive game, Oden came up huge in the final game against Horford and Noah, two NBA bound top ten pick talents that are known for their defense.
He had 25 points on 10/15 shooting and 12 rebounds with 4 blocks.


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## Premier

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*

Critically, I think you need to work on your persuasive writing mechanics. I think the ideas are there, but your writing is not effective enough to convince the reader, especially if you intended to display this article in a professional medium. 



> Greg Oden is taller and bigger than Kevin Durant, but Kevin Durant grabbed more rebounds per game than the seven foot Greg Oden. Durant almost got 2 more rebounds per game than Greg Oden. Kevin Durant is also not prone to foul trouble like Greg Oden is. The only area where Greg Oden is more NBA ready than Kevin Durant is on defense, Oden will go into the league as a very good defender, he will be able to guard every center in the league 1 on 1 besides Shaq. Kevin Durant although being a worse defender than Greg Oden, he made leaps and bounds during the season, he is a good on the ball defender and with his long arms I think he will become a deadly help defender much like Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks.


In persuasive writing, I think it is best to explain why your opponent, which in this case is Greg Oden's proponents, is incorrect, and then proceed to explain why you are correct. Depending on how you would like to organize your ideas, you may begin your paragraphs stating why Oden is a lesser prospect than Durant and end them stating why Durant is a greater prospect than Oden. So, you could keep the subject constant until the point in which you feel it's best to change the subject from Oden to Durant.

The first two sentences are redundant. Consider "Greg Oden, at 7'0", averaged 1.5 less rebounds per game than the 6'9" Kevin Durant." Statisically, you are manipulating these numbers in your favor, as you did not mention that Oden averaged 0.8 more rebounds per forty minutes than Durant.

You may also improve the following sentence, "Kevin Durant is also not prone to foul trouble like Greg Oden is." Consider "In addition, Oden is more foul prone than Durant, as he averages 1.5 more personal fouls per forty minutes than the collegiate player of the year." Logically, one may refute this argument by noting that officials in college basketball tend to call fouls on centers that would not warrant a whistle in the NBA.

Similar improvements in writing and logic are possible throughout the article.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*



YoYoYoWasup said:


> I agree with you somewhat. I too don't think Oden is a once-in-a-lifetime talent, nor do I think he is the best Center prospect since Kareem (which many called him coming out of high school). To me, the player he mostly resembles is Patrick Ewing, and not David Robinson. Like Ewing, he's an intimidating defensive prescence with a huge wing span, but while he's very athletic for a 7 footer, he's not in David Robinson's league athletically,* nor does he have the face up game D-Rob had. Robinson was one of the top 3 athletically gifted centers in the history of basketball.*
> 
> All that being said, Patrick Ewing was still a damn good player and, in his prime, would be the best true Center in the league right now, rather easily.


And who's to say Oden isn't going to develop some moves? It's not like he's hit his prime, the guys going to learn a lot once he hits the league. To be a rookie coming into the league and already having the ability to guard 98% of the people effectively is pretty amazing. And I don't see how you don't think Oden would develop anymore moves, you can compare the skill set of a guy who hasn't been drafted yet to a guy who played in the league for how many years? And is a hall of famer? Oden will develop his inside game I believe, and it'll be pretty effective because of his ability to use both of his hands very well.


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## NeoSamurai

*Re: My Side of a "Who Should Go Number 1"*

I disagree about your remark about Oden not being a rarity. If anything Oden is the more rarer talent in today's NBA than KD. Ask yourself, how many true NBA C's are there remaining in the NBA who will have an impact on both ends of the court? Yao, Duncan, Shaq...and Shaq is coming off that list in a couple of years, if not already. With that said, a center who can score with his back to the basket and can lock down the paint defensively has been proven throughout the history of NBA basketball to be the best way to win an NBA title. 

Oden, from day 1, will improve any NBA franchise's defense with his shotblocking and rebounding. But what makes him special is that he will become an offensive force. He has the ability to score with either hand, he has the athletic ability to dominate, and he has the work ethic and attitude to become that dual-force ala Duncan.


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## roux

*The Greg Oden, Kevin Durant debate*

One of the few teams that was rumored to be willing to take Kevin Durant first overall has gone public with their desire to take Oden if they got the first pick. Larry Harris has been quoted as saying that the Bucks would take Oden if they got the first pick, meaning he would be willing to move Bogut over to power forward. This looks to me that it basically guarantees Greg Oden as the #1 pick.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/nba/05/21/bucks.lottery.ap/index.html


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## cpawfan

*Re: The Greg Oden, Kevin Durant debate*

Time to merge all of these Durant v Oden threads


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## cpawfan

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Ghost, 

Have you written an updated version yet?


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## G-Force

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

My Sonics came so close to getting the #1 pick, but I'll be happy with getting Durant with the #2. I'm not complaining either way.


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## Sunsfan81

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Anyone who would take Durant over Oden is nuts. These great dominate centers don't come along often. Oden will win you championships; Durant will need much more help to win a championship than Oden. Oden has a solid chance of being a Tim Duncan like player; Durant will probably be similar to Tracy McGrady.


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## SirCharles34

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



Sunsfan81 said:


> Anyone who would take Durant over Oden is nuts. These great dominate centers don't come along often. Oden will win you championships; Durant will need much more help to win a championship than Oden. Oden has a solid chance of being a Tim Duncan like player; Durant will probably be similar to Tracy McGrady.


and why is being compared to T-mac a bad thing?


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## HKF

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*

Great swingmen need a great team to go deep in the playoffs. Great big men seem to be able to elevate their team moreso, because of the ability to dominate both ends of the paint. I wouldn't want to be T-Mac. For all his talent he doesn't have the mental ability to get over the hump. Flawed player.


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## Sunsfan81

*Re: Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*



SirCharles34 said:


> and why is being compared to T-mac a bad thing?


It's not bad, but I'd rather have a player who is compared to Duncan and Patrick Ewing.


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## rainman

*DraftExpress has Durant #1*

And i just might have to agree with them. Before people going off half cocked on this pick i think you have to really study Oden and Durant and see what you have now and down the road. If Oden is Bill Russell or Tim Duncan its a no brainer, if he's Robert Parrish, Patrick Ewing or even David Robinson you may have an issue to deal with. Conversely if Durant is Melo with a couple of inches or a Tracey McGrady its one thing but if his impact is that of a Bird or a Jordan then i'm taking him. People smarter than me(i'm being kind) are going to have to figure that out and they have a month or so to do it.


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## Jizzy

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*

I disagree. You always draft for size first. With the lack of dominant centers in the NBA, you can't pass up on a player like Oden. I'm not a big fan of living off potential but Oden comes with a great prize. I don't think Seattle is complaining however. Durant is a great player in his own and they don't have to resign Rashard Lewis.

Imagine how Oden and Durant may feel. Knowing that there either going to Seattle or Portland.


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## ATLien

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*

Any chance one of them pulls a Kobe or Francis to get to Chicago or a contending team?


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## Premier

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*

I could see Portland going with Durant. They need a small forward if they're going to keep Randolph and rumor has it that Adidas is going to offer Durant Kobe money, eight million per. Durant is more marketable, but I think Oden is the selection.


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## SeaNet

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*

If you are going to take Durant over Oden, you better be damn sure he's the next Bird, and not the next TMac.


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## rainman

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*



SeaNet said:


> If you are going to take Durant over Oden, you better be damn sure he's the next Bird, and not the next TMac.


I hear ya but even T-mac would be better than Ewing/Mutombo/Parrish and Ewing as far as i'm concerned.


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## HB

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*

They will draft Oden and try to get Lewis


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## Tobias

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*



rainman said:


> I hear ya but even T-mac would be better than Ewing/Mutombo/Parrish and Ewing as far as i'm concerned.


Ewing took his team to the finals (twice, arguably.) Deke lead his rickety 8th seeded Nuggets over the beastily #1 seeded Kemp-Schremph-Payton Sonics. Plus, he was also a key piece in taking the Nets to the finals. 

What has T-mac done after the regular season besides surrendering series leads and fishing?


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## Foulzilla

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*



TheATLien said:


> Any chance one of them pulls a Kobe or Francis to get to Chicago or a contending team?


So far both have stated to the media that they want to play in Portland. If they were going to pull a Francis I don't think they would've even bothered to say that much.


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## Kuskid

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*



TheATLien said:


> Any chance one of them pulls a Kobe or Francis to get to Chicago or a contending team?


Too grounded. Humble *******s.


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## R-Star

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*

Not a chance. Oden is number 1. Its that simple.


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## Minstrel

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*



TheATLien said:


> Any chance one of them pulls a Kobe or Francis to get to Chicago or a contending team?


Definitely not Oden:



> After talking with confidants about Portland winning the No. 1 pick, Oden expressed relief that he was going to a smaller market. He never has been enamored with the bright lights and big city. He was born in Buffalo, raised in Indianapolis and had little appetite for the suffocating pressures of, say, Boston.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-blazers052407

Besides, Portland will be a contending team with Oden.


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## cpawfan

While I hated to change this thread title from *Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*, but I'm try to keep things organized.


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## rainman

cpawfan said:


> While I hated to change this thread title from *Whoever takes Oden over Durant is going to regret it for a long time*, but I'm try to keep things organized.


b

I think when you throw it into the holding tank you sort of lose some interest but knock yourself out.


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## cpawfan

rainman said:


> I think when you throw it into the holding tank you sort of lose some interest but knock yourself out.


It works just fine in other forums and it will work here, but I'm not surprised you were the first to comment


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## SeaNet

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*



rainman said:


> I hear ya but even T-mac would be better than Ewing/Mutombo/Parrish and Ewing as far as i'm concerned.


All TMac has proven in the NBA is that he can score a bunch, fold in the playoffs, and keep his teammates from finding any kind of rhythm due to his ball domination. I'll take any of those three guys over that any day of the week and twice on Sunday.


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## rainman

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*



SeaNet said:


> All TMac has proven in the NBA is that he can score a bunch, fold in the playoffs, and keep his teammates from finding any kind of rhythm due to his ball domination. I'll take any of those three guys over that any day of the week and twice on Sunday.


Parrish was a really solid bigman but he never had to worry about being a 1st or 2nd option(3rd or 4th for that matter), Ewing had a great career i'll concede on that one, always thought Mutombo was overrated. If Oden is the next Mutombo i'm taking Durant instead.


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## SeaNet

*Re: DraftExpress has Durant #1*



rainman said:


> Parrish was a really solid bigman but he never had to worry about being a 1st or 2nd option(3rd or 4th for that matter), Ewing had a great career i'll concede on that one, always thought Mutombo was overrated. If Oden is the next Mutombo i'm taking Durant instead.


IMO, TMac is fool's gold. I'd have no interest in having him on my team. Even if I didn't think he was fool's gold, I think Mutumbo and Ewing were both far more impactful players. Parrish it's hard to say. How much did he have to keep under wraps because he was playing w/ Bird and McHale? I don't know. But I know he was an asset to a team that won it all. And I know that TMac is fool's gold.


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## HKF

He isn't the next Mutombo. Just off dunks and layups alone he isn't. Not to mention Draftexpress is simply doing this for publicity. There is no way Oden isn't the #1 pick by Portland. Period.


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## Jonathan Watters

HKF, I know you and I try not to agree if possible, but on this one you are 100% right. 

After my first five minutes of watching Durant play in high school, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that Greg Oden had better be damn good if he was going to end up better than this once or twice a decade 17-year old twig dropping fadeaways on Derrick Caracter like he was Kevin Garnett. 

I listened to all the naysayers who said he was soft and would need time to adjust to the college game. I sat back, smiled, and waited. Then Durant went out and averaged 30 ppg in the Big XII. 

He's a freak of nature, no doubt about it. 

But then Greg Oden was able to grip the ball with both hands again. Then came the conditioning. Then came the confidence. And then he became the best player in college basketball, in about a two week period. 

I will make two comments, and not mention this debate again, until the Blazers either do the inevitable and pick Oden, or make one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the NBA draft. 

- Everybody is talking about fast-paced basketball, how Durant is the future of the league and Oden is the past. This is absurd, and I love small ball - I find the East bordering on unwatchable these days. But for as good as the Suns are, for as fun as they are to watch, everybody knows who has made the NBA finals since Steve Nash and Mike D'Antoni arrived in Phoenix, and who has watched them from the couch. And, for the record, can anybody recall a player in a prototypical "small ball" system even remotely similar to Kevin Durant ever leading a team to success in the playoffs this decade? The whole Dirk being capable of leading a team to a championship idea has taken a serious hit over the last 1 year + 4 games. Nellie ball worked because he had guys playing the swing positions willing to make the extra pass, tough as nails, physical, and downright deadly explosive. You can say the same things about Marion, Stoudemire, and the Suns. I don't think Durant is any of those things. Perhaps the whole idea of "the next KG" was simply a Michael Jordanized pollution of what a premier big man should be. Garnett hasn't been able to get to the next level, and he's the prototype. I don't think "the next KG" has won a playoff game yet. 

- Secondly, the idea that Durant was more dominant than Oden this season is about as shortsighted as an argument can get. Durant averaged more points - get any more complex than that, and the Durant side is going to be scrambling immediately. Never mind the fact that Texas played at a much faster pace. Never mind that Durant played in an offense that essentially amounted to "fast break, augustin pass to durant, durant shoot", in its most complicated moments. Never mind the fact that Durant only dominated one side of the ball, and even then would often amass large chunks of his points in short stretches and then go cold for entire halves at a time. The fact of the matter is that by the end of the season, Oden was the better player. He completely dominated the unquestioned premier frontcourt in the country, on the game's biggest stage, essentially by himself. His +/- stats are off the charts, and his stats are still pretty darn sexy for a freshman big man. 

And, of course, the one overriding factor that nobody can honestly attempt to deny here - if Oden hadn't injured his hand, this 230 post thread wouldn't even exist.


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## rocketeer

there is no debate about who should go #1. at least there shouldn't be.

the only answer is oden.


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## Oldmangrouch

If the Blazers don't take Oden, I will be distraught.

No one on the Blazer forum was as big a "doubting Thomas" on Oden as I was. As recently as Feb, I thought it was a dead heat as to who was the better player between he and Durant. 

Then came March Madness, and a chance to see a healthy Oden take his game to another level. 

I still believe Durant is headed for a great career.....but Oden has to be the pick!


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## lw32

Jonathan Watters said:


> HKF, I know you and I try not to agree if possible, but on this one you are 100% right.
> 
> After my first five minutes of watching Durant play in high school, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that Greg Oden had better be damn good if he was going to end up better than this once or twice a decade 17-year old twig dropping fadeaways on Derrick Caracter like he was Kevin Garnett.
> 
> I listened to all the naysayers who said he was soft and would need time to adjust to the college game. I sat back, smiled, and waited. Then Durant went out and averaged 30 ppg in the Big XII.
> 
> He's a freak of nature, no doubt about it.
> 
> But then Greg Oden was able to grip the ball with both hands again. Then came the conditioning. Then came the confidence. And then he became the best player in college basketball, in about a two week period.
> 
> I will make two comments, and not mention this debate again, until the Blazers either do the inevitable and pick Oden, or make one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the NBA draft.
> 
> - Everybody is talking about fast-paced basketball, how Durant is the future of the league and Oden is the past. This is absurd, and I love small ball - I find the East bordering on unwatchable these days. But for as good as the Suns are, for as fun as they are to watch, everybody knows who has made the NBA finals since Steve Nash and Mike D'Antoni arrived in Phoenix, and who has watched them from the couch. And, for the record, can anybody recall a player in a prototypical "small ball" system even remotely similar to Kevin Durant ever leading a team to success in the playoffs this decade? The whole Dirk being capable of leading a team to a championship idea has taken a serious hit over the last 1 year + 4 games. Nellie ball worked because he had guys playing the swing positions willing to make the extra pass, tough as nails, physical, and downright deadly explosive. You can say the same things about Marion, Stoudemire, and the Suns. I don't think Durant is any of those things. Perhaps the whole idea of "the next KG" was simply a Michael Jordanized pollution of what a premier big man should be. Garnett hasn't been able to get to the next level, and he's the prototype. I don't think "the next KG" has won a playoff game yet.
> 
> - Secondly, the idea that Durant was more dominant than Oden this season is about as shortsighted as an argument can get. Durant averaged more points - get any more complex than that, and the Durant side is going to be scrambling immediately. Never mind the fact that Texas played at a much faster pace. Never mind that Durant played in an offense that essentially amounted to "fast break, augustin pass to durant, durant shoot", in its most complicated moments. Never mind the fact that Durant only dominated one side of the ball, and even then would often amass large chunks of his points in short stretches and then go cold for entire halves at a time. The fact of the matter is that by the end of the season, Oden was the better player. He completely dominated the unquestioned premier frontcourt in the country, on the game's biggest stage, essentially by himself. His +/- stats are off the charts, and his stats are still pretty darn sexy for a freshman big man.
> 
> And, of course, the one overriding factor that nobody can honestly attempt to deny here - if Oden hadn't injured his hand, this 230 post thread wouldn't even exist.


This is a fantastic post Jonathan. I really don't need to add anything, just need to make sure anyone still pondering over this decision reads it.

I assume you can't persuade the guys over at DraftExpress? Considering Durant was going #1 yesterday on the mock. David Thorpe (Abbott and ESPNs favorite guy) has also been stating he'd take Durant first. I guess it's much the same as Thorpe believing Howard was a top 10 center of all time. One reason he makes these statements: *Publicity!*


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## Bulls12

If both guys play as good as their potintal its like chosing bettwen Shaq and KG and I don't know about you but I'm taking Shaq.


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## SeaNet

The whole 'fast-paced basketball is the future' thing is a load of crap. The teams w/ the best big men and that play the best defense are the past present and future of basketball.


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## Yega1979

Please remember than Oden was playing with a bad right wrist last season. As a rookie he averaged over 15ppg with his shooting hand injured...he did a respectable job with his off-hand, which is more than most nba guys can say.


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## pr0wler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYzdGn_jIRU

In reference to Greg Oden "Anyone can stand there and block shots..."

lol


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## JPSeraph

Oden should go first, of course. Nobody really knows if Durant will be the next once-a-generation wonder or just another versatile all star, but Oden is almost sure to be a major force in the league for years to come.


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## mediocre man

It's been rumored that our GM loves Durant. Either way it would be a good thing for the franchise, but you have to take Oden. 

The players he is compared to are Ewing, Shaq, Russell, Robinson. The players Durant is compared to are Nowitzki, T-Mac, Lewis. I think Durant will be an extremely special player in this league for a long time, but Oden is a guy that will bring you more titles.


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## gi0rdun

You can't give up the next big guy (He's gonna be in a list of Best Cs in the NBA with Yao, STAT and D12) just because you have Aldridge. I like Durant more, but you can't miss out on Greg.


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## AllEyezonTX

*SLAM Magazine jumps on the Durant/Oden hype*

I like the RIP LeBron @ the bottem:biggrin:


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