# What do we get for Kwame?



## MikeDC

If we trade him, what do we get?

I'm picturing something like a trade to the Knicks for Jerome Williams and their draft pick, which turns into Sean May


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## BCH

to paraphrase Korny.

Squadoosh.

I wouldn't mind the pick from the Knicks, but I know I do not want Williams. And when I say pick, I dont mean one at the bottom of the first.


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## twinz2gether

I have a feeling sean may's draft stock will raise enough to the point where he could be a late lottery pick.


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## Nitestalker

I'm not sure if Washington wants Harrington from Atlanta but if you could then i'd say it might be a good situation for both..

Atlanta
Harrington
filler...maybe Ivey? 

Washington
Brown
second round whether this yr or next yr


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## Shanghai Kid

I'd take Kurt Thomas and a 2nd round pick to be honest.


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## One on One

Nitestalker said:


> I'm not sure if Washington wants Harrington from Atlanta but if you could then i'd say it might be a good situation for both..
> 
> Atlanta
> Harrington
> filler...maybe Ivey?
> 
> Washington
> Brown
> second round whether this yr or next yr


YES YES YES. I still remember when Harrington was with Indiana and matched MJ mano a mano. That was one of the best one-on-one matchups I've seen in the regular season in a long time. I really think Harrington will turn into a great player eventually, plus he can defend which helps us in the short term.


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## MikeDC

BCH said:


> to paraphrase Korny.
> 
> Squadoosh.
> 
> I wouldn't mind the pick from the Knicks, but I know I do not want Williams. And when I say pick, I dont mean one at the bottom of the first.


Ya don't think May looks like the kind of guy that goes with a late lottery pick?

I'm not sold on him, I just think he'll go there, and he superficially fits the Wiz' need and will probably go in the mid lottery, where the Knicks pick.

JYD comes because _someone_ has to come back to match Kwame's outgoing salary, and when you start looking at guys on the Knicks he's only got two years left on his deal, vs. the 3 Malik Rose or Mo Taylor have. If you're trading Kwame with the Knicks, you probably need to take one of those three for salary purposes. Being the cheapest (ha) of the bunch and the hometown boy, JYD probably makes the most sense.

-------------------

I'm not sure Atlanta trades Harrington, just because he's one of the few solid guys they have. Why trade him for another question mark? Plus, would he fit on the Wiz? He's another tweener forward like Jamison, like a less offensive, more defensive minded version of Antawn


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## One on One

Mikedc said:


> I'm not sure Atlanta trades Harrington, just because he's one of the few solid guys they have. Why trade him for another question mark? Plus, would he fit on the Wiz? He's another tweener forward like Jamison, like a less offensive, more defensive minded version of Antawn


We'd have to take a close look at it, but why not bring in Harrington and go small like Phoenix did. Start Jamison at PF and run, run, run.


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## DaBullz

ERob's expiring contract and Eric Piatkowski for Kwame.

Deal?


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## Gripni

DaBullz said:


> ERob's expiring contract and Eric Piatkowski for Kwame.
> 
> Deal?


No. We have to get someone, anyone, to help improve our depth, preferably someone with size.


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## DaBullz

The deal I suggested is worth about $9M in expiring contracts. If you can't use the cap room, you can surely trade them.


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## ATLien

Atlanta will probably try to shop Harrington around, but why would they trade him for Kwame when they could just outright sign Kwame or any number of big men this summer who are just as good, if not better, than Kwame.. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


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## ZonkerBL

Mikedc said:


> Ya don't think May looks like the kind of guy that goes with a late lottery pick?
> 
> I'm not sold on him, I just think he'll go there, and he superficially fits the Wiz' need and will probably go in the mid lottery, where the Knicks pick.


Yeah, I like May, he's strong and has a nose for the ball and the basket. He'll be able to manufacture points through brute strength and should take up a lot of space in the lane rebounding wise.

His mobility worries me, one cause he'll have trouble with the 3 second defense, and he won't be able to run with the rest of the defense, and he'll have shaq-like problems with the screen and roll. But you could do a lot worse, and you know what you're getting with him, instead of gambling on some teenager's potential *ahem*.

Maybe if he lost twenty pounds are so he might increase his mobility a little, I don't know. We'd have to see just how slow he is in the pre-draft workouts.


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## MikeDC

ZonkerBL said:


> Yeah, I like May, he's strong and has a nose for the ball and the basket. He'll be able to manufacture points through brute strength and should take up a lot of space in the lane rebounding wise.
> 
> His mobility worries me, one cause he'll have trouble with the 3 second defense, and he won't be able to run with the rest of the defense, and he'll have shaq-like problems with the screen and roll. But you could do a lot worse, and you know what you're getting with him, instead of gambling on some teenager's potential *ahem*.
> 
> Maybe if he lost twenty pounds are so he might increase his mobility a little, I don't know. We'd have to see just how slow he is in the pre-draft workouts.


LOL, i don't think he's that slow to have trouble with the 3 second rule... he's not playing with lead boots or anything, jeez.

Still, it's hard to figure whether he's Elton Brand or Robert Traylor.


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## RP McMurphy

Mikedc said:


> If we trade him, what do we get?


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## MJG

I think in reality, we get nothing. Sign and trades are not especially common I don't think, and I can't imagine teams will be especially scared of us matching any big offers towards him. If we can get anything at all useful for him -- be it a second rounder or a Ruffin-quality bench player -- I'd be satisfied.


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## f22egl

I would only see a sign and trade with a team like New York who is over the cap and would otherwise not be able to get enough money to sign Kwame Brown. Or the Wizards could get some players who are unwanted like Bonzi Wells or Jason Williams from Memphis. We'll have to wait and see though.


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## ZonkerBL

Mikedc said:


> LOL, i don't think he's that slow to have trouble with the 3 second rule... he's not playing with lead boots or anything, jeez.
> 
> Still, it's hard to figure whether he's Elton Brand or Robert Traylor.


My point being he'd prefer to stand under the basket rather than scoot back and forth like you have to now.


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## Da Grinch

scott may to me resembles a poor man's mike sweetney with all the same flaws and plusses to his game, sweetney is a little more talented, bigger and has proven his game (that of the smallish 4 , who can post up and off. reb. with the best of them) translates ....something most of the time just doesn't happen, nearly as much as hoped, i am not very optimistic about may's prospects as a top player i think he'll eventually settle into a bench player.

kurt for kwame straight up seems fair ,if that 2nd rounder shanghai kid wanted was thrown in it wouldn't matter either way, kurt would play the same role kwame would on the wizards (backup 4/5, possible starter at power forward) but he's be much better at it, at least in the short term.

also another deal if it was expanded kwame and jarvis hayed for jerome williams and mike sweetney and 3 mil., both teams would seem to better off switching sweetney for hayes as the knicks really dont need another 4 and JJ kind of made him not needed as the small forward starter because he is a better fit for jamison because like jamison he is also a tweener but a defensive minded one so he can pick up the slack for him. Jerome williams is similar in that regard but a better version but he is overpaid which is why the 3 mil. is thrown in , which makes the 12 mil. over the next 2 year more like 9 ...still somewhat overpaid but bearable.

basically gives the wizards what they need , defense and rebounding and the knicks what they need a center and a 2 guard


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## hobojoe

MJG said:


> I think in reality, we get nothing. Sign and trades are not especially common I don't think, and I can't imagine teams will be especially scared of us matching any big offers towards him. If we can get anything at all useful for him -- be it a second rounder or a Ruffin-quality bench player -- I'd be satisfied.


:yes:

The likelihood of Washington getting anything isn't very high, and if they do it won't be much.


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## truth

hobojoe said:


> :yes:
> 
> The likelihood of Washington getting anything isn't very high, and if they do it won't be much.


I think Zeke will offer you KT and the #30 pick.As a Knick fan I would hate to see KT go as he is a true warrior,plays injured,gives up the body and never complains..And it doesnt hurt that hes a double double...


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## MJG

truth said:


> I think Zeke will offer you KT and the #30 pick.As a Knick fan I would hate to see KT go as he is a true warrior,plays injured,gives up the body and never complains..And it doesnt hurt that hes a double double...


I mentioned it in another thread already, but this is a deal that I like. I don't even need the pick to give it a thumbs up, though I'd certainly be happy to take it. Thomas has an acceptable contract (he expires at the same time as Jamison, snipping off some $20ish million off that summer) and gives us a type of player that we could really use. Most importantly though, this is one trade that I actually view as a viable possibility.


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## truth

MJG said:


> I mentioned it in another thread already, but this is a deal that I like. I don't even need the pick to give it a thumbs up, though I'd certainly be happy to take it. Thomas has an acceptable contract (he expires at the same time as Jamison, snipping off some $20ish million off that summer) and gives us a type of player that we could really use. Most importantly though, this is one trade that I actually view as a viable possibility.


Zeke is approachig desperation and is going to have to gamble..We have no bigs,and kwame is worth the shot,especially if Zeke drafts a wing or.....point guard


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## f22egl

Real GM reports that the Knicks have traded Kurt Thomas and a conditional 1st round pick for Quentin Richardson


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## truth

f22egl said:


> Real GM reports that the Knicks have traded Kurt Thomas and a conditional 1st round pick for Quentin Richardson


I guess you arent getting Kurt.....and we arent getting Kwame,though i would swap Sweetney and JYD 3 mill for hayes and Kwame..


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## Zuca

A resigned Stro Swift...


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## f22egl

truth said:


> I guess you arent getting Kurt.....and we arent getting Kwame,though i would swap Sweetney and JYD 3 mill for hayes and Kwame..


 No thanks


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## aussiewill

What about Jason Terry as your explosive 6th man, that could bode well for both sides.


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## Ramos32

i say trade kwame for a vetern or just keep kwame and see what hes made off


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## f22egl

Isiah Thomas is going to meet with Kwame Brown. Is their anybody on the Knicks roster you want such as Michael Sweetney, Trevor Ariza, Jerome WIlliams, Malik Rose, their draft pick, and San Antonio's draft pick. Also Tim Thomas and Penny Hardaway as salary filler.


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## f22egl

aussiewill said:


> What about Jason Terry as your explosive 6th man, that could bode well for both sides.


 What about Marquis Daniels? :biggrin:


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## HKF

The Wizards shouldn't have tendered him the qualifying offer. What a joke. They basically destroy this man's career and then have the nerve to want a pick.


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## BCH

HKF said:


> The Wizards shouldn't have tendered him the qualifying offer. What a joke. They basically destroy this man's career and then have the nerve to want a pick.


Pardon me, but I thought Kwame Brown got paid to produce. Was that not the case?

Don't be ridiculous, the Wizards took the kid #1, and the fact there are teams that are asking for S&T's means there is value left in him. That value is a commodity to the Wizards, and it is their right to trade this value to another team.

This is ignoring the fact that Kwame could take the QO and continue to say he is sick.


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## f22egl

This is from the Bergen Record



> No offer has been made to Abdur-Rahim, but the Nets would give him the entire midlevel exception, roughly starting at $5 million. Abdur-Rahim's agent Aaron Goodwin, who has spoken several times with Nets president Rod Thorn and general manager Ed Stefanski, would rather his client come to the Nets in a sign-and-trade with Portland. Abdur-Rahim could get more money - one more year and 2 percent more in annual bumps - if that happens.
> 
> If Plan A fails, the Nets' Plan B includes unrestricted free agent big men Donyell Marshall, Stromile Swift and restricted free agent Kwame Brown. However, the Wizards would want a sign-and-trade with Brown. They don't want to let him go without getting something in return. The best the Nets could, or would, offer in any sign-and-trade is their $5 million trade exception, which must be used by July 29, and a first-round pick. They have their own in 2006 as well as the Clippers' pick, which could be a high choice if Los Angeles is bad again.


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## HKF

See if I'm Kwame, I take the qualifying offer and then be a regular FA for in 2006. That way the Wizards get nothing for him. What happened in the playoffs was a microcosm. The guy just doesn't want to be here and they still tender him that. Stupid.


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## DaBullz

HKF said:


> See if I'm Kwame, I take the qualifying offer and then be a regular FA for in 2006. That way the Wizards get nothing for him. What happened in the playoffs was a microcosm. The guy just doesn't want to be here and they still tender him that. Stupid.


On paper, it sounds good. If he has a bad season, or is injured severely enough to cause doubts in potential bidders for his services, he could cost himself $millions. I think the more "conservative" route is to maximize the dollars he can ASAP.


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## truth

DaBullz said:


> On paper, it sounds good. If he has a bad season, or is injured severely enough to cause doubts in potential bidders for his services, he could cost himself $millions. I think the more "conservative" route is to maximize the dollars he can ASAP.


some very dumb team is likely to offer him 7-8 million per....ill be shocked if the qualifying offer is as good as it gets...as per the knicks,you should be thrilled with sweetney.....


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## MJG

truth said:


> some very dumb team is likely to offer him 7-8 million per....ill be shocked if the qualifying offer is as good as it gets...as per the knicks,you should be thrilled with sweetney.....


 Just curious, but how is JYD viewed by the Knicks? As in, if he were part of a trade for Kwame for salary purposes, would you guys need someone back to replace him? Or would you have no problem shipping him out effectively as filler?

I ask because the Sweetney rumors has me thinking of something simple like Sweetney + JYD for Kwame (he can start anywhere between $6.0 and $9.5 million), which is basically a Sweetney/Kwame swap with JYD thrown in to make salaries line up. However, if from your point of view JYD is more than filler and you need something back for him, I'm not so sure it would really work very well. The only low salaried guys we could send back are Jeffries, Hayes, and Ramos, none of which I'd want to include without further tinkering on the deal as a whole.


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## Shanghai Kid

HKF said:


> See if I'm Kwame, I take the qualifying offer and then be a regular FA for in 2006. That way the Wizards get nothing for him. What happened in the playoffs was a microcosm. The guy just doesn't want to be here and they still tender him that. Stupid.


 Unless your Kwame's agent or Kwame himself, I don't think you can really judge what his mindset is right now. Kwame is responsible for his own actions, he is the one who got himself suspended in the playoffs. Your looking at it from the perspective of a Kwame symphatizer, but he's still a restricted free agent. Washington is going to do whats in the best interest for the team, not Kwame. So why shouldn't Washington try to get something for him if he obviously has value? A half dozen teams have called about a sign and trade. Ernie Grunfield is a smart GM, I kind of trust that he knows what he's doing.


If Kwame stays for one more year and has a successful season I could see him resigning with the Wiz. Remember, Kwame's problem is with Eddie Jordan, not Ernie Grunfield or his teammates. A successful season could change everything and help build bridges again. And it's not even a guarantee that Eddie Jordan will be here for much longer if the defense doesn't improve.


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## MJG

Shanghai Kid said:


> Washington is going to do whats in the best interest for the team, not Kwame.


I want to second this. Ideally, we do what's best for both and everyone is happy. However, if that isn't possible (and at the moment, it's probably not), then the team comes way, way before Kwame. And I say this as someone who has solidly backed Kwame his entire time here.


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## DaBullz

truth said:


> some very dumb team is likely to offer him 7-8 million per....ill be shocked if the qualifying offer is as good as it gets...as per the knicks,you should be thrilled with sweetney.....


I think he may be worth the risk, but not for a super-long contract.

In the meantime, he can get the highest bid, have the Wiz match, and become a UFA after next season.

If he can get a big deal from the Wiz in the end, he may as well stay.

Right now, the kid has problems, but he still has a lot of potential. As a Bulls' fan, I'd love to see him end up on the Bulls (on the cheap), as he could basically be considered the draft pick the bulls didn't have. And worth the draft pick, IMO.


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## f22egl

I don't know that much about Sweetney but one of my friends from New york said that a reason he didn't get a lot of playing time was because he was in foul trouble a lot because he played center. Either way, he is a good low post scorer and a good rebounder, but not a good defender. Personally, I would rather have Kwame than him. The JYD has sort of fell of in New York and seems to be more of a liability now. Maybe the Wizards can talk the Knicks into giving the Wizards a future first round pick.


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## BCH

I want to go on record as saying trading Kwame Brown for an undersized Power Forward is a mistake. Whether it is Sweetney or someone else, but especially Sweetney.

Why, oh why, would a team do a PF swap right now that involved Brown? It would be because they are trying to fleece the Wizards. 

Anyway, I would hold out for more than just Sweetney, who isn't going to be all that much anyway.


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## f22egl

Jamal Crawford as well as Sweetney has been thrown into the trading block as well. Crawford may have incredible offensive ability but has terrible shot selection, shoots much too often, and plays no defense. Other than that, he has great potential but hasn't worked out for the last two teams he has played for. His contract is also very very long and much too high for a back point guard. This however, may become an alternative if Larry Hughes is not resigned.


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## truth

f22egl said:


> I don't know that much about Sweetney but one of my friends from New york said that a reason he didn't get a lot of playing time was because he was in foul trouble a lot because he played center. Either way, he is a good low post scorer and a good rebounder, but not a good defender. Personally, I would rather have Kwame than him. The JYD has sort of fell of in New York and seems to be more of a liability now. Maybe the Wizards can talk the Knicks into giving the Wizards a future first round pick.


Sweetney is a double double..great hands,soft touch,deceptively quick and a wide body.hes a great offensive rebounder and a good guy..the knicks used him totally wrong..theynever called a play for him,and because kurt thomas had no post up game,opposing centers guarded sweets down low.

he gets alot of soft fouls,and part of it is he must condition more...

i personally think its a fair trade as Sweetney will be a good starting PF,probably a 14 and 10 guy...


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## Blazer Freak

Jamal Crawford for Kwame. Knicks get their post man, Wiz get a SG with PG skills, can replace Larry.


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## truth

Blazer Freak said:


> Jamal Crawford for Kwame. Knicks get their post man, Wiz get a SG with PG skills, can replace Larry.


zekes gonna offer garbage and ernies going to ask for JC.in the end,kwames a knick and jc is a wizard


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## f22egl

I hope not.


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## truth

f22egl said:


> I hope not.


twould you prefer Sweetney???

Someone is going to offer Kwmae 8 million per..count on it


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## f22egl

Personally, I'd rather re-sign Kwame but a backcourt of Crawford and Arenas will have the least amount of defense ever. I know Crawford can ball and create shots with his ability to penetrate but he takes too many bad shots, hence the less than 40% shooting. 2nd, it may be better for the Wizards just to let Kwame walk so they have the cap space to sign another big free agent next season. I'd also like to see if Jarvis Hayes can develop into a decent player or not.


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## Damian Necronamous

truth said:


> zekes gonna offer garbage and ernies going to ask for JC.in the end,kwames a knick and jc is a wizard


Nah, Thomas would rather just use the MLE to get one of Stromile Swift or Jerome James than trading Crawford to get Kwame.


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## truth

Damian Necronamous said:


> Nah, Thomas would rather just use the MLE to get one of Stromile Swift or Jerome James than trading Crawford to get Kwame.


Forget Swift,he thinks he is worth 9 mil per and West is not signing and trading that ridiculous number..He will make an offer to James or Hunter

DN Zeke LOVES kwame..To Zeke its jermaine Oneal chapter 2.You may be right on JC,but Sweetney is also a possibilty...It would require filler as well,but Sweets can play and he is a local product


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## MJG

Interesting tidbits from the NY Times ...



> If the Knicks want Brown, it will cost them Quentin Richardson, according to an Eastern Conference team executive who has been briefed on the talks. The executive requested anonymity to avoid jeopardizing potential deals.
> 
> Richardson's salary, $6.3 million, makes him a good fit in a trade for Brown, who is expected to earn something in that price range in a new contract. But the Knicks just recently acquired Richardson, in a trade for Kurt Thomas, and would be reluctant to part with him while gambling on Brown. The first pick in the 2001 draft, Brown has yet to establish himself as a full-time starter.
> 
> The Wizards like Knicks forward Mike Sweetney, who played at Georgetown. But Sweetney's salary is too low and his potential too limited to make a deal work. The Knicks could balance salaries by placing Malik Rose ($6 million) or Jerome Williams ($6.1 million) in the deal, but the Wizards have no interest in either player.


No mention of Crawford at all. Intersting that we won't take JYD or Rose (thank goodness). That basically means that there won't be a Sweetney swap, unless the deal is expanded beyond just Kwame. I would be pretty pleased to get Q in a sign and trade. He is signed to a reasonable deal (about $7.5 million per for five seasons) and is probably the best possible replacement for Hughes out of what might be available. It seems iffy that they'd send him off so quick after getting him, but you never know with NY.


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## One on One

Q would be a great addition! I always thought we needed a better long range threat in the lineup. I'm at least happy to see that we're not resigned to losing Kwame for some mid-tier player.


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## truth

One on One said:


> Q would be a great addition! I always thought we needed a better long range threat in the lineup. I'm at least happy to see that we're not resigned to losing Kwame for some mid-tier player.


as much as Zeke likes Kwame,I dont think he parts so fast with Q..He is a very physical 2/3 and the Knicks desparately need that...


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## afireinside

truth said:


> as much as Zeke likes Kwame,I dont think he parts so fast with Q..He is a very physical 2/3 and the Knicks desparately need that...


The Knicks need new everything.


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## MJG

It's Vecsey, so take it with a half grain of salt, but ...



> At last count, the Wiz had seven offers for Kwame, several of them significant, which summarily erases the Knicks from contention on numerous scores. For some reason, they don't find Michael Sweetney and Jerome Williams ($6.6M/$7M/7.3M) all that appealing.
> 
> Hearing aides inform me Washington GM Ernie Grunfeld can have his pick of Memphis' James Posey, Indiana's Fred Jones and the Lakers' Caron Butler.


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## f22egl

Caron Butler would be fine although it needs to be determined whether or not he can play any shooting guard. It would probably make Jamison a power forward again.


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## BCH

I would love to see Kwame for Caron, though I am not sure how the salary would work considering Caron makes about $2.5M in 2005-2006.

The Wizards would probably have to take back some more salary, meaning more players. It would be nicce if they could get Caron at $2.5M and then use the rest on a PF (Shareef?)

Depth chart would look like this.

PG: Arenas/Blake
SG: Caron/Hayes/Donell Taylor
SF: Jamison/Hayes/Jeffries
PF: FA PF (Shareef)/Jeffries/Ruffin
Ce: Haywood/Etan

That is 11 players. For a 9 man rotation you would basically sit Ruffin and Taylor. Jamison could play some PF as well. 

The reason I like Shareef is that I do not think we are going to be an impressive defensive team with EJ as coach. With that being said, we can overcome this with rebounding and scoring. SAR would help us with those two things, as well as keep the floor very well spread out.

I really do not want to see Jamison start at PF this year. I think that really hurt us toward the end of last season, because Jamison was playing worn down and injured due to his significant minutes guarding PFs in the post. I think in any offseason move that EG makes, he has to make sure Jamison is not our starting PF.


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## MikeDC

Personally, I like the idea James Posey a little better than Butler as a fit for us. He's a bit more athletic and I've heard lots of stuff over the years that suggests Butler's got shaky knees.

We almost couldn't help but to be a better defensive team.

We're still short a power forward though, and I doubt the MLE gets us Reef. Maybe Donyell Marshall?


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## pacerfan23

It think the Wiz may take a look at Fred Jones who has starting SG potential and an athletic freak 4 Kwame. Everyone loves Caron butler, no at as many know of the more talented Fred jones because of Reggie Miller and Stephen Jackson


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## BCH

I don't see EG going for Fred Jones, but that is just me.

For a good laugh, this is what Scoop Jackson had to say in his chat:



> Bean (H-Town): Scoop dont you think the Rockets should go after Tyson Chandler he would give Yao some help on defense and boards?
> 
> Scoop Jackson: (1:14 PM ET ) That may not be a bad move. hadn't thought of it. But I still think he's either going to stay in Chi or get swapped with the Wiz's for Kwame Brown.


Ok, talk about from out of left field.


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