# NCAA Championship: Illinois Fighting Illini vs North Carolina Tarheels



## Brian34Cook

*NCAA Championship: Illinois Fighting Illini vs North Carolina Tar Heels*

<center>
2004-2005 NCAA Championship
The much anticipated game everyone wanted takes place...
Date: April 4, 2005
Time: 8:21 PM C.T.
TV: CBS









Illinois Fighting Illini (37-1)
*How'd they get here?*
Automatic bid, Big Ten tournament champion
1st Rd: Beat No. 16 Fairleigh Dickinson 67-55
2nd Rd: Beat No. 9 Nevada 71-59
Regional Semifinals: Beat No. 12 Wisconsin-Milwaukee 77-63
Regional Final: Beat No. 3 Arizona 90-89, OT
Final Four: Beat No. 4 Louisville 72-57

*Probable Starting Lineup:*




































Guard Dee Brown 
Guard Deron Williams
Guard Luther Head
Forward Roger Powell Jr.
Forward James Augustine

*Bench:*
Jack Ingram
Nick Smith
Rich McBride
Warren Carter
Shaun Pruitt









North Carolina Tar Heels (32-4)
*How'd they get here?*
At-Large Bid, ACC
1st Rd: Beat No. 16 Oakland 96-68
2nd Rd: Beat No. 9 Iowa State 92-65
Regional Semifinals: Beat No. 5 Villanova 67-66
Regional Final: Beat No. 6 Wisconsin 88-82
Final Four: Beat No. 5 Michigan State 87-71

*Probable Starting Lineup:*




































Guard Raymond Felton
Guard Rashad McCants
Forward Jackie Manuel
Forward Jawad Williams
Center Sean May 

*Bench:*
Marvin Williams
Charlie Everett
Damion Grant
Jesse Holley
C.J. Hooker
Wes Miller
David Noel
Byron Sanders
Melvin Scott

Coaching Matchup:








Bruce Weber
Overall Record: 166-62 | .728 (7th Year)
At Illinois: 63-8 | .887 (2nd Year)
Big Ten: 28-4 | .875
NCAA Tournament: 9-3 | .750









Roy Williams
Overall Record: 438-112 | .796 (16 Years)

*School vs School History:*
North Carolina leads Illinois 3-2
Most Recent Matchup: 
12-2-03: North Carolina defeated Illinois 88-81 @ Greensboro, N.C.



















Final Four Seating Diagram
Final Four Activities
2005 Bracket (.pdf)
Past Champions
Regional Records
Final Four Records
NCAA Tournament History
Regular Season Records Book
Attendance History
Final Four FAQ
Video Archive
Rules and Regulations (2005)
Participating Schools
Promotional Programs
Hoop City
</center>

I'm going to the game.. Go Illini! .. This should be a battle.. Augustine is gonna get slaughterd by May!


----------



## HKF

*Re: NCAA Championship: ILlinois Fighting Illini vs North Carolina Tarheels*

Illini better win.


----------



## JRose5

*Re: NCAA Championship: ILlinois Fighting Illini vs North Carolina Tarheels*



HKF said:


> Illini better win.


Hope so, going to be a great game.

Go Illini!


----------



## Hoopla

This title game is awfully similar to the 1999 title game between UConn and Duke:

* Both featured the top 2 teams in the nation

* One team was (although Duke much more than UNC) considered the consensus favorite to win it all before the tournament started.

* One team is well balanced with stars (and future NBA draft picks) at multiple positions, not to mention a freshman coming off the bench who might have the most potential of them all.

* The other team has a sensational 3 man backcourt.


----------



## TM

Hoopla said:


> This title game is awfully similar to the 1999 title game between UConn and Duke:


if that's the case, i'm picking UNC by 3 - 77-74  Deron dribbles full length of court but fails to tie the game.


----------



## allenive21

I have yet to pick against the Illini this year and hopefully I'll be attending the game if my friend purchased me a ticket, $195 for the upper deck but not way back in the corner so hey not a bad deal if you ask me, go Illini!


----------



## Ron Mexico

the matchup I was waiting for :banana: it became a fad to start hating on North Carolina and Illinois so I'm glad this is the match-up

no rooting interest, just hoping for a good game


first time in about 30 years the #1 team vs. #2 team in the polls before the tourney meet up in the championship game


----------



## HKF

What was UConn ranked in 1999? Was Michigan State No.2 instead? 

I know Duke was No. 1 and UConn only had 2 losses, so they had to be at least No. 3.


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

My heart says the Illini, but my head says UNC.


----------



## KJay

roy better win this one for UNC


----------



## TM

HKF said:


> What was UConn ranked in 1999? Was Michigan State No.2 instead?
> 
> I know Duke was No. 1 and UConn only had 2 losses, so they had to be at least No. 3.


Final AP
1 Duke
2 MSU
3 UConn


----------



## Nimreitz

Duke didn't have any experience and that UConn team was all seniors. I know I picked UConn and since I didn't win my pool I wasn't the only one.


----------



## TM

Experience at what? Trajan had been there for like 10years, Brand was Nat'l POY, and the rest were NBA draft picks the following year. Forget experience. Bottom line: they choked!


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*I hope Illinois wins, because if UNC wins, they would have beaten the 3rd, 2nd, and 1st teams from the Big 10....REPRESENT THE BIG 10 ILLINIOS!*


----------



## adarsh1

I hope Illinois wins. I am sorry, I am not into this support your conference crap. I hope Duke loses, UNC loses, every team other than UMD loses. I hope Illinois blows out UNC.


----------



## Ron Mexico

> We're not surprised,'' Illinois guard Luther Head said. ``People have been saying North Carolina is the better team all year. We'll see tomorrow.''





> That kind of makes me upset that people are saying that we're not a team, that we're just a talented team,'' North Carolina point guard Raymond Felton said. ``We haven't won 32 games just because of talent. We are a team.''


the theme is talent vs. teamwork


----------



## PetroToZoran

UNC better win this one... I have 65,000 uCash points riding on them to win by 3 or more points.


----------



## underhill_101

im gonna take UNC to win 87-84... cant wait for the game. tipoff in 15 mins. :biggrin:


----------



## MarioChalmers

Can't wait for the game, it's gonna be a good one. I have my bag of chips ready. :biggrin:


----------



## adarsh1

well the Illini are down by 13 at the break. They are shooting like crap, less than 30 percent. You gotta knock down your shots if you want to beat UNC


----------



## X-Factor

Judging by that first half from Illinois I have a feeling that soon everyone will be seeing:
Your 2004-2005 NCAA Champions... The UNC Tar Heels

And as much as I'd love for Illinois to win I have to think logically and say the Illinois is not coming back in the second half.


----------



## HeinzGuderian

It's only halftime.


----------



## HKF

Need to attack the basket. Too many 3's. UNC is kicking that azz.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

We got a game - 4 pts.

But Marvin Williams makes it 6 point. Will this freshmen break out in the second half a la Ron Mercer?


----------



## HKF

How can you not love the heart of Deron Williams and Luther Head? These guys pay on guts.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Who says you have to attack the basket - just defend will and hit your threes.


----------



## HKF

JuniorNoboa said:


> Who says you have to attack the basket - just defend will and hit your threes.


  Some idiot with a 3 letter name.


----------



## HKF

Who said Deron can't shoot? LOL


----------



## JuniorNoboa

May's a stud ..... so is Deron. A great national championship


----------



## BigMac

May day May day he kicking butt right now.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Someone's going to get themselves a hell of a point guard in Deron Williams. 

As for May, I'm not sure how he projects as a pro but he is an amazing college player. I still think Illinois will pull this one out in the end.


----------



## MarioChalmers

Damn, May is unstoppable!


----------



## Hoopla

Props to Illinois for this comeback. Williams just can't miss from outside.

But the key is still Augustine with 4 fouls. Illinois has absolutely NO answer for May and I just can't see them overcoming his play. UNC is hitting their jumpers so double teams will just result in open jumpers. Illinois has to pick their poison right now, since they don't have the manpower to defend May.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Just two years ago SU was #1 on the list for most wins without a national championship.


----------



## MarioChalmers

If May declares for the NBA Draft this year, he might even be a top 10 prospect because of his play in this game alone.


----------



## HKF

Did you see that defensive play and pass by Deron? Wow. Billy Packer almost said Felton picked up a stupid foul. He stopped himself and said cheap foul instead.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

gian said:


> If May declares for the NBA Draft this year, he might even be a top 10 prospect because of his play in this game alone.


Fans on websites move players WAY up because of one game. NBA scouts do not.


----------



## MarioChalmers

JuniorNoboa said:


> Fans on websites move players WAY up because of one game. NBA scouts do not.


Possibly, I didn't say that he suddenly became a superstar type player though. I'm just saying that considering how fansites and some NBA Scouts work, his draft stock will soar.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Augustine hasn't been the sharpest cat out there today. I fave four fouls and I am going to push someone on the with my full arm extended. What the hell do yo expect moron.


----------



## HKF

WOw, Jack Ingram.


----------



## HKF

That's 4 on Felton.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

gian said:


> Possibly, I didn't say that he suddenly became a superstar type player though. I'm just saying that considering how fansites and some NBA Scouts work, his draft stock will soar.


And I'm saying that's not how NBA scouts work (not some..... none).

Anyway, who cares, let's enjpy the game.


----------



## MarioChalmers

JuniorNoboa said:


> And I'm saying that's not how NBA scouts work (not some..... none).
> 
> Anyway, who cares, let's enjpy the game.


I think some of them do, but I don't think any of us can judge that. 

:cheers: To one of the best games of the basketball season. Peace. :clap:


----------



## HKF

Not a good shot by Scott and Head ties it. :clap:


----------



## MarioChalmers

Things are getting interesting...


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Why is Billy Packer complaining about illegal screens with a minute left in the game.


----------



## Kunlun

****! It's tied now. 70-70 with a three pointer by Head. North Carlina better not collapse in the final minutes. Just get pull yourselves together, it's just a couple more minutes, they have so much talent, if they got themselves together they will win this.


----------



## Pacers Fan

This is a really great game. Luther Head is awesome!


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Why doesn't Roy take out Marvin and bring in Jawad?


----------



## Hoopla

Wow....Illinois with 2 great looks at a 3-pointer which would have given them the lead, but neither goes in.


----------



## HKF

I don't get why the Illini are passing up open two point baskets down 2 points. I know they are making 3's, but they are passing up good looks.


----------



## MarioChalmers

Steal by Felton! HUGE play!


----------



## sMaK

Their first TO in the half comes now! UNBELIEVABLE.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Wow Felton misses. (Hopefully, Enberg has trashed that stupid "essay" anyway)


----------



## Hoopla

The ball never was in Williams' hand during the turnover possession.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Illinois has to penetrate here at the minimum. (either take the two or kickout) ..... I sound like every announcer in Ameirca


----------



## sMaK

:curse: 

Open look! That's twice Head.


----------



## HKF

I guess no team has ever won 38 games in a season continues.


----------



## Tooeasy

game ovahhh


----------



## One on One

I hope they all go pro now......**** carolina!


----------



## MarioChalmers

UNC wins!!! :biggrin:


----------



## sMaK

Roy Williams didn't choke!? 

Congrats to UNC.


----------



## Kunlun

It's over!!! UNC wins!!! 75-70.


----------



## JerryWest

wooo, go felton!


----------



## The Truth

I really dislike McCants.

No, I really dislike McCants.


----------



## MarioChalmers

You guys hear that? Cheesiest line ever...

Madness started in March, ended in April... and it belongs to May 

:nonono:

:laugh:


----------



## HogsFan1188

Finally I don't have to hear about Roy Williams anymore! :banana:


----------



## Pacers Fan

**** you Illinois. You just lost me $10.


----------



## Yyzlin

...I hate losing money. I hate UNC. I had Illinois for not winning. I hate everything right now.


----------



## HKF

CBS is a joke. They couldn't just interview Raymond Felton they had to go to commercial right at that moment? What the heck?


----------



## Hoopla

Nice effort by Illinois to come back. And they put up an insane amount of 3s today (and not suprisingly only had 6 FT attempts). But when it mattered most, they missed three open 3 point attempts within the last minute or so, each of which would have either given them the lead or tied it.

As for the turnover by Head, credit Felton for the great anticipation. My first thought was that Williams should have had the ball at the top of the key to start with. But had the pass gone through, Williams would have had a wide open 3, which everyone in the building knows he would have hit.

Congrats to UNC, especially two individuals: Roy Williams, who finally has the monkey off his back, and Sean May, who had a brilliant tournament and who wanted it more than anyone else.


----------



## vadimivich

Raymond Felton was the best guard on the floor, Sean May was the best bigman.

When that happens, it's impossible to lose - even if the other team plays great (which Illinois did).


----------



## rainman

The Truth said:


> I really dislike McCants.
> 
> No, I really dislike McCants.



arent you glad he decided to take that jersey off. he should run to the pros before they find out he isnt that good. i thought illinois strategy was poor. when they got 2 quick ones on felton they should have drove the ball at him until they either got him out of the game or had him pick up another foul or two. defensively they let may get the ball too low in the post. without a defensive 3 second call at the ncaa level it is easier to take a big man out of the game, you just play a guy in front of him and one behind. guys like ingram and augustine were left out on an island and they put the refs in a postion to make the heels job much easier. i was glad for roy that the heels won.


----------



## HKF

Augustine got called for 5 touch fouls. They reffed him right out of the game. Other than that, I have no qualms. The Illini never even gave Roger Powell a look.


----------



## zagsfan20

McCants is a punk.....


----------



## rainman

HKF said:


> Augustine got called for 5 touch fouls. They reffed him right out of the game. Other than that, I have no qualms. The Illini never even gave Roger Powell a look.


they should of given the illinois big men more help on may before he even got the ball. i would have made someone else beat me in the second half. it looked like the officiating favored unc, maybe they wanted roy to get his championship.


----------



## max powers

Its okay zags fan you know in your heart Gonzaga is better than Carolina that's all that matters.


----------



## HKF

rainman said:


> they should of given the illinois big men more help on may before he even got the ball. i would have made someone else beat me in the second half. it looked like the officiating favored unc, maybe they wanted roy to get his championship.


I'm not saying that it won UNC the game or favored them. I'm just saying that Augustine didn't even get a chance to play. A couple of his fouls were suspect while a few times, Powell couldn't get a whistle. That was a big difference, because May plowed over Powell twice, but no calls and Augustine's getting little cheap fouls. Just was upsetting.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

What a great game. I knew Illinois was going to charge back after UNC's took 13 into halftime. Deron Williams played really well, he impressed me with his poise and skillset. He got Felton in foul trouble, hit a lot of big shots and played floor general very well. Sean May was the star for UNC though, damn. He played out of his mind, I haven't seen a guy with his kind of touch in the post for awhile. He also has the all around game of a great post player, just hope his height doesn't hold him back in the NBA. Marvin Williams and Rashard McCants were absolutely shut down, and nobody on Carolina played all that well besides May. Felton had a mediocre game, not bad or good. 

I'd say the foul trouble for Augustine was offset by the illegal screens Illinois used to get back into the game with that charge of three pointers. It's not like Augustine was really any more effective on May anyways, May was bullying anyone in his way. I do feel bad for Augustine though, he will be thinking about this game for a long time.


----------



## The Truth

rainman said:


> arent you glad he decided to take that jersey off. he should run to the pros before they find out he isnt that good. i thought illinois strategy was poor. when they got 2 quick ones on felton they should have drove the ball at him until they either got him out of the game or had him pick up another foul or two. defensively they let may get the ball too low in the post. without a defensive 3 second call at the ncaa level it is easier to take a big man out of the game, you just play a guy in front of him and one behind. guys like ingram and augustine were left out on an island and they put the refs in a postion to make the heels job much easier. i was glad for roy that the heels won.


I agree that McCants just isn't that good. He's a good offfensive player, but he's a headcase and doesn't play defense. How sad is it that the supposed "star" player had to be taken out near the end of the game because he is a defensive liability?

And I agree that Illinois should have taken it right at Felton. I was actually screaming it the whole time! Regardless of the monster game May had, Felton is the most important player on the court for UNC. If Felton isn't in the game, Carolina would have a hard time even getting it in May's hands.


----------



## allenive21

HKF said:


> I'm not saying that it won UNC the game or favored them. I'm just saying that Augustine didn't even get a chance to play. A couple of his fouls were suspect while a few times, Powell couldn't get a whistle. That was a big difference, because May plowed over Powell twice, but no calls and Augustine's getting little cheap fouls. Just was upsetting.


I agree with this assessment as Powell really worked his butt off in the post against May and could not seem to buy a call. It was obvious that there was lots of bumping going on both parts but still, May was throwing his shoulder right into him and just plowing him over.

Another thing about the game that made me a little angry was Luther Head playing out of the system. He went back to the kind of stuff he did last year with the little shot fakes and trying to drive to the hoop and basically just ignoring the offense and his teammates. This was completely selfish on his part and kind of ironic that instead of taking the shot when he slashed like he always does, he tried to kick and the pass was stolen by Felton who was right in position. Then Luther had a great look at the end and it just didn't fall. He just had a bad game all around even though in the boxscore it might not show it.

Also on another sidenote, the Illini could not get Felton a third foul because Roy Williams did a smart thing of going into the point zone so Felton was always on top and played smart defense by moving his feet and not reaching. This was a great job of coaching on Williams part and it threw the Illini off guard. They became content with jacking 3's instead of trying to work the ball into the big hole of the zone in the middle which helped them to pick apart Louisville's zone. Why Weber didn't make an adjustment during a time-out for this, I do not know but it was a lack of coaching on his part.

I am still very proud of what this team accomplished over the year as it was a great run and all Illini fans should be proud, first time ever in the National Championship game.


----------



## rainman

HKF said:


> I'm not saying that it won UNC the game or favored them. I'm just saying that Augustine didn't even get a chance to play. A couple of his fouls were suspect while a few times, Powell couldn't get a whistle. That was a big difference, because May plowed over Powell twice, but no calls and Augustine's getting little cheap fouls. Just was upsetting.


overall the refereeing was poor and i think the illinois coaching was subpar. they didnt do the little things to turn things in their favor. i would put the ball in mccants hands by doubling may with a guard,before he got the ball. if mccants could beat you then so be it. my guess is he wouldnt.


----------



## Phil_Dirt

I was hoping for a good game -- that is not what I got even with the score close at the end. I realize that in a championship game the refs seem to put the whistle away, but, come on. When the calls go basically one way, something is wrong. 

Give UNC some credit for changing to a 2-3 zone. What I can't understand is why the Illini didn't adjust to it. They changed up for Louisville's zone, why stick to just jacking up 3's?

Anyway, the box score made it look like a good game.


----------



## rainman

Phil_Dirt said:


> I was hoping for a good game -- that is not what I got even with the score close at the end. I realize that in a championship game the refs seem to put the whistle away, but, come on. When the calls go basically one way, something is wrong.
> 
> Give UNC some credit for changing to a 2-3 zone. What I can't understand is why the Illini didn't adjust to it. They changed up for Louisville's zone, why stick to just jacking up 3's?
> 
> Anyway, the box score made it look like a good game.



agree, way too many 3's also. when illinois went inside they were fairly successful. unc doesnt have any shot blockers. i couldnt figure out some of the strategy or lack there of.


----------



## Phil_Dirt

I can't fault May for playing like a raging bull, that is what the refs gave him and he took it. 

I guess we can put away college bball for now & start to make projections about who will be drafted where. May listed at 6'9" and 266 should make a pretty good power forward. Does anyone know if the 6'9" is legit?


----------



## On Thre3

allenive21 said:


> I agree with this assessment as Powell really worked his butt off in the post against May and could not seem to buy a call. It was obvious that there was lots of bumping going on both parts but still, May was throwing his shoulder right into him and just plowing him over.
> 
> Another thing about the game that made me a little angry was Luther Head playing out of the system. He went back to the kind of stuff he did last year with the little shot fakes and trying to drive to the hoop and basically just ignoring the offense and his teammates. This was completely selfish on his part and kind of ironic that instead of taking the shot when he slashed like he always does, he tried to kick and the pass was stolen by Felton who was right in position. Then Luther had a great look at the end and it just didn't fall. He just had a bad game all around even though in the boxscore it might not show it.
> 
> Also on another sidenote, the Illini could not get Felton a third foul because Roy Williams did a smart thing of going into the point zone so Felton was always on top and played smart defense by moving his feet and not reaching. This was a great job of coaching on Williams part and it threw the Illini off guard. They became content with jacking 3's instead of trying to work the ball into the big hole of the zone in the middle which helped them to pick apart Louisville's zone. Why Weber didn't make an adjustment during a time-out for this, I do not know but it was a lack of coaching on his part.
> 
> I am still very proud of what this team accomplished over the year as it was a great run and all Illini fans should be proud, first time ever in the National Championship game.


first off , I would like to commend you on your post. You dont do any whining and dont subliminally bash the other team that most people(including me) somtimes do. 

TO the point: Man this is such a great feeling, i almost shed tears when the players embraced near center court, going through that 8-20 season(not just the players but the fans too) you realized all the band wagon(my f'ing brother) fans and the true tar heels. You endured what all the players did that in turn makes this championship so much sweeter.

now on to the game.

The theme of this game for Illinois was Live by the three, die by the three. This was evident as in the first half when their 3's wernt falling, Illinois fell behind. This is the first illinois game i have seen since last year, and i was dumbfounded at how much threes they were taking, but i was suprised when i learned thats the way illinois plays. They started to come alive once they started to hit their 3's, but what led to their down fall was what saved them in the first place, the 3's.

On to the whining
Lets please stop whinining about the reffing here, because it was not skewd towards one team or another. Agustine may have been called for a few questionable fouls, but so did felton. What i laughed at was his stupid fouls- how he swiped at felton as he blazed through the lane, and how he used his forearm to gain posistion. Somhow the only thing most people are saying that illinois got screwd my the reffing is because augustine fouled out, yet felton had 4 fouls, none of which were hard fouls, and the same for manuel(except he had 1 or 2) While not all the screens set by illinois were illegal, there was defintly some that were illegal and extremly questionably. There is no way that they could destroy carolina's perimter defense like that without setting a few illegal screens.

However some of the credit has to be given to illinois's great perimiter passing, they always made the extra pass and amazed me at their consistoncy with it. 

and to the guy that said why complain about illegal screens with 1:00 left in the game? why not??? the game was close, the game was on the line, and an illegal screen could very well help a team win the game. A illegal screen in the 1st half is an illegal screen with 1 minute left.


----------



## The Truth

On Thre3 said:


> first off , I would like to *condemn* you on your post. You dont do any whining and dont subliminally bash the other team that most people(including me) somtimes do.
> 
> TO the point: Man this is such a great feeling, i almost shed tears when the players embraced near center court, going through that 8-20 season(not just the players but the fans too) you realized all the band wagon(my f'ing brother) fans and the true tar heels. You endured what all the players did that in turn makes this championship so much sweeter.
> 
> now on to the game.
> 
> The theme of this game for Illinois was Live by the three, die by the three. This was evident as in the first half when their 3's wernt falling, Illinois fell behind. This is the first illinois game i have seen since last year, and i was dumbfounded at how much threes they were taking, but i was suprised when i learned thats the way illinois plays. They started to come alive once they started to hit their 3's, but what led to their down fall was what saved them in the first place, the 3's.
> 
> On to the whining
> Lets please stop whinining about the reffing here, because it was not skewd towards one team or another. Agustine may have been called for a few questionable fouls, but so did felton. What i laughed at was his stupid fouls- how he swiped at felton as he blazed through the lane, and how he used his forearm to gain posistion. Somhow the only thing most people are saying that illinois got screwd my the reffing is because augustine fouled out, yet felton had 4 fouls, none of which were hard fouls, and the same for manuel(except he had 1 or 2) While not all the screens set by illinois were illegal, there was defintly some that were illegal and extremly questionably. There is no way that they could destroy carolina's perimter defense like that without setting a few illegal screens.
> 
> However some of the credit has to be given to illinois's great perimiter passing, they always made the extra pass and amazed me at their consistoncy with it.
> 
> and to the guy that said why complain about illegal screens with 1:00 left in the game? why not??? the game was close, the game was on the line, and an illegal screen could very well help a team win the game. A illegal screen in the 1st half is an illegal screen with 1 minute left.


Um, I think you meant commend, not condemn. You may want to edit that...completely different meaning.


----------



## HKF

You want to condemn him? Or commend him?


----------



## On Thre3

HKF said:


> You want to condemn him? Or commend him?


 if you cant get what i meant from the text following...


----------



## Ron Mexico

Illinois were playing a perimeter game all game long c'mon they attempted 40 three's of course North Carolina will get more foul calls if they go inside much more than Illinois, how many fouls are committed on jump shots??


the only reason why they're complaining/whining is because they wanted Illinois to win I mean nobody is complaining about Illinois' moving screens


Congrats to North Carolina :clap: nice job,


----------



## allenive21

Phil_Dirt said:


> Give UNC some credit for changing to a 2-3 zone. What I can't understand is why the Illini didn't adjust to it. They changed up for Louisville's zone, why stick to just jacking up 3's?


I think you're a little mixed up, UNC was not playing a 2-3 zone, they were playing a point zone developed by Dean Smith which looks like a 2-3 zone but really isn't. The whole point of the defense is that the man with the ball is always covered man-to-man while the others play a box zone. Louisville's zone was a 2-3 zone which is different. Illinois could have still attacked it the same way with looking to get it into the middle of the zone then creating the offense out of that as getting it into the middle of a zone usually breaks down most zones. However, UNC did a very good job of bringing out the point zone so the Illini players were not making good crisp passes to get the defense moving nor were they in good positions to shoot. The only thing that they tried to do to break out was to swing it around and have a big man step out and set a pick on the defender that would guard the wing. However, Weber should have made the adjustment to get it into the middle of the zone with someone like Powell or Ingram that can hit that mid-ranged jumper, I call it a lack of coaching there when Weber is usually outstanding at making adjustments like this.


----------



## apelman2

The Truth said:


> I really dislike McCants.
> 
> No, I really dislike McCants.


I couldn't agree with you more. It almost seems like the guy is hinting to the University that they should retire his jersey or something by taking it off and holding it up like that.


----------



## The Truth

apelman2 said:


> I couldn't agree with you more. It almost seems like the guy is hinting to the University that they should retire his jersey or something by taking it off and holding it up like that.


Yeah, after he played a terrible second half and had to be taken out near the game because he is a defensive liability.

I would hope even UNC's jersey retiring standards would be above McCants.


----------



## TM

No way they retire his jersey. He hasn't done anything. ACC POY once? yippie. So far, two out of my three mist-disliked players (McCants & Hodge) are leaving. Hopefully, Paul will follow their lead soon.


----------



## HKF

I think what McCants was doing, was baiting the Illini fans. I didn't agree with what he was doing, but he did have a right to go scoreboard if he chooses. Make no mistake this guy was one of the most scrutinized players that I can remember in college basketball, but his team won and you can't say he didn't do anything, because he carried his team in the first half, while Sean May did it in the 2nd half. It was a team win. Whether it was classy or not, is not up to me. Then again, I'm not a fan of either team really (although I always like the players), so that is for someone else to decide.


----------



## zagsfan20

Roy Williams yanked McCants' cocky arse because he was clanking shots the entire second half.....Its too bad that someones piss poor personality can drop them from a lottery pick to a late first rounder......


----------



## HKF

zagsfan20 said:


> Roy Williams yanked McCants' cocky arse because he was clanking shots the entire second half.....Its too bad that someones piss poor personality can drop them from a lottery pick to a late second rounder......


A late 2nd rounder? Not likely.


----------



## zagsfan20

HKF said:


> A late 2nd rounder? Not likely.


Whoops, I meant late first rounder.....


----------



## The Truth

zagsfan20 said:


> Roy Williams yanked McCants' cocky arse because he was clanking shots the entire second half.....Its too bad that someones piss poor personality can drop them from a lottery pick to a late first rounder......


Piss poor personality and his lacking defensive ability (or is it desire?).


----------



## Phil_Dirt

allenive21 said:


> I think you're a little mixed up, UNC was not playing a 2-3 zone, they were playing a point zone developed by Dean Smith which looks like a 2-3 zone but really isn't. The whole point of the defense is that the man with the ball is always covered man-to-man while the others play a box zone. Louisville's zone was a 2-3 zone which is different. Illinois could have still attacked it the same way with looking to get it into the middle of the zone then creating the offense out of that as getting it into the middle of a zone usually breaks down most zones. However, UNC did a very good job of bringing out the point zone so the Illini players were not making good crisp passes to get the defense moving nor were they in good positions to shoot. The only thing that they tried to do to break out was to swing it around and have a big man step out and set a pick on the defender that would guard the wing. However, Weber should have made the adjustment to get it into the middle of the zone with someone like Powell or Ingram that can hit that mid-ranged jumper, I call it a lack of coaching there when Weber is usually outstanding at making adjustments like this.


You are correct regarding the zone alignment -- thanks. My only excuse is that I was attempting to write a theology paper at the same time & the positioning does looking like a 2-3 for the most part.


----------



## On Thre3

The Truth said:


> Piss poor personality and his lacking defensive ability (or is it desire?).


mcants is underrated as a defender. Hes not a great defender but he is still average. When he went out, carolinas defense went down, when he came back their defense went up too.


----------



## The Truth

On Thre3 said:


> mcants is underrated as a defender. Hes not a great defender but he is still average. When he went out, carolinas defense went down, when he came back their defense went up too.


He's an average _at best_ defender, which is sad for someone with his physical ability.

His problem is desire and intensity...he just doesn't have it on the defensive end.


----------



## HKF

Chris Paul and Rashad McCants don't play much defense and that's really not very debateable. They aren't hustle players. They play like they think they are stars (which of course they are on the college level). If they're not stars on the pro level, they are going to have to hustle.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

On Thre3 said:


> mcants is underrated as a defender. Hes not a great defender but he is still average. When he went out, carolinas defense went down, when he came back their defense went up too.


Go back and watch the Wisconsin game if you think McCants is even a decent defender. He is horrendous, almost soley responsible for the large number of open 3's opponents get. He refuses to work around screens, and he absolutely will not come out on the shooter. My one problem with UNC winning the championship (I love the other guys) is that McCants gets to say he won a championship. UNC won in spite of Rashad, not because of him.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

On Thre3 said:


> On to the whining
> Lets please stop whinining about the reffing here, because it was not skewd towards one team or another. Agustine may have been called for a few questionable fouls, but so did felton. What i laughed at was his stupid fouls- how he swiped at felton as he blazed through the lane, and how he used his forearm to gain posistion. Somhow the only thing most people are saying that illinois got screwd my the reffing is because augustine fouled out, yet felton had 4 fouls, none of which were hard fouls, and the same for manuel(except he had 1 or 2) While not all the screens set by illinois were illegal, there was defintly some that were illegal and extremly questionably. There is no way that they could destroy carolina's perimter defense like that without setting a few illegal screens.


I agree completely. This game was called fair on both sides of the ball. Maybe the high amount of whistles favors the less physical style of play that UNC is used to, but there were ticky-tack fouls called both ways. I also agreed with Packer that some of those screens were moving. They got their open threes because of moving screens, and still missed them. As for May, Illinois has been getting killed by bigger post guys all year. Remember Terence Dials? Augustine only played 21 minutes in that game, after picking up his 3rd early in the 2nd half...


----------

