# Raptors 2014/15 Season Discussion Thread



## Porn Player

Can Season XX be our greatest ever? It sure does feel like it.


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## Porn Player

It's Game Day! 

Hawks @ Raptors, 19:30 ET.


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## ozzzymandius

GAME IS STARTING !!!!! LET'S GET THIS DANG THING GOING BROTHERS !!!


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## ozzzymandius

Nogueira is dressed and ready to go ?!?!!! ...hmmmmm


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## Porn Player

We've talked about this all Offseason but last night really showed us the benefit of keeping our core and making small additions. 

Last night was a fantastic team effort, each player showed up and contributed. Jonas had 17 points in 20 minutes. The kid is a beast. 

I am so pumped for this year.


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## RollWithEm

Not many SGs in this league can go 4-16 from the field with 5 turnovers and still contribute heavily in a win over a playoff team. 11 rebounds and 6 steals is impressive.


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## AllRim

RollWithEm said:


> Not many SGs in this league can go 4-16 from the field with 5 turnovers and still contribute heavily in a win over a playoff team. 11 rebounds and 6 steals is impressive.


DD showed amazing growth last night. He wasn't getting many whistles for him and had a few questionable calls against him. Normally this would cause DD to dissapear. 

But this game he continued to drive and look for calls, hustled on D and crashed the boards. Those steals in my mind are what won us this game. Everyone was so pumped to see JV put up those numbers in limited minutes, but in my eyes DD won us this game with gritty play.


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## AllRim

BTW I know the Hawks are an elite perimeter shooting team, but our 3 point D was awful. Ross was schooled by KK


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## AllRim

Orlando up next, WE GOT THIS!!


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## ozzzymandius

Raps playing like crap so far at the end of two. 
No defense, not making any shots and some apathy peeking through the cracks. I know they'll pick it up but still not the signs I'd like to see in game 2.


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## ozzzymandius

Finally some proper plays and shots finding the bottom of the net in 3rd qtr. 
Lowry, Derozan and JV making plays.


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## ozzzymandius

Crazzy good 3rd quarter and Raps back in total control! 
Wow! Defense, shots falling, Demar, Lou and Lowry nicely stepping up!


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## Porn Player

The defense in that first half was abysmal. Orlando were waltzing into the paint for easy buckets and we didn't have any body rotating to play help defense. 

That said, we did what the good teams do. We fixed the problem and we went on to win (quite) comfortably in the end.


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## ozzzymandius

^^ You know in hindsight that's quite true. They just buckled down and got the job done. Swagger, confidence And composure throughout. Never saw any panic in them even while down. 

Tonight now is a different story. Our boys are in a tough spot. Miami is still tough and so far their taking us in all categories. Still only stuck 10 at halftime though and lotsa ball left to play.


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## ozzzymandius

It's one of those nights ....


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## ozzzymandius

Gotta give em credit though .... No quit! No quit!!


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## Porn Player

I really hate Miami.


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## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> I really hate Miami.


And who can blame you?


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## Porn Player

Not the most beautiful of wins against OKC, almost getting the W by default as they ended up with 6 guys able to play. 

But again, this is what good teams do. We're now 3-1 and not playing anywhere near our best basketball. 

James Johnson and Greg Stiesma added a little something to the game last night, I liked what I saw. 

Big JV had a scare with his nose, but X-Rays are negative and he will travel to Boston. Amir will not travel.


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## ozzzymandius

Kyle Lowry!!! I love his game but so physical and dependent on health. I don't see how he can keep this up all season. So many good things here!! At least the defense and intensity came in early this game. Hayes, Patterson stand out efforts!!

We shoulda had this kind of effort two games ago :-/
Either way a 'W' is a 'W' !!


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## ozzzymandius

Holy Crap!! Did anybody see that play!! DeMar off of Lowry!! With 33 seconds left !!!
SICK !!! SICK!! SICK!!!


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## ozzzymandius

SICK!! 
SICK!! SICK!!
WOW!!


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## Porn Player

Love this game. Lowry was ****ing money. His bucket and walk off court at the half was utter swag. 

James Johnson and his defense really helped the momentum swing in the 4th, then Lowry and DeMar finished it off in style. 

4-1 to start the season. 

Oh, and I still hate Miami.


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## AllRim




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## AllRim




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## AllRim




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## AllRim

Next Up Washington to keep 1st place!!!


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## Porn Player

Really big game against Washington, I hope our defense decides to make its first appearance this year.


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## RollWithEm

Just getting around to watching last night's game, and this team's continuity just leaps off the screen. Even without Amir and JVal, they just share the ball so well. No egos on this team.


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## Porn Player

And we finally played a complete game.


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## ozzzymandius

I heard about it .... but I still haven't seen it yet :'-( 
But that's what ball stream is for!!! Can't wait to seeT.Ross' game and the defense and DD and Lowry and the crowd and the jerseys and the look on Paul Pierce's face and, and, and ....you get the picture!!! 
A Total Game!!!! WOW!!!


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## seifer0406

we just need Ross to give us around 15 a night. When he's hitting 3s it opens things up for DeRozan and Lowry.


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## ozzzymandius

What to say, what to say .... But this team is on FIRE!!! could it be we're starting to see some consistency and identity? Ross with another stellar outing, Lowry, Demar, Williams, Vasquez and the rest of the usual suspects with top efforts like usual. We're on a serious track this year for something BIG!!

With 5mins. Left we should see a sighting of our rooks.


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## AllRim

Nice win, but it was Philly.....Can't wait for chicago


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## Porn Player

DeMar is playing like Kobe to start the season, his mid-range game is absolutely unstoppable.

Terrence Ross seems to be finding his groove. 

Oh and that Johnson slam was filthy.


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## RollWithEm

It is particularly amazing that the Raptors have started off this hot when these are their guards' 3-pt shooting percentages right now...

Vasquez - 24.1%
Lowry - 26.9%
DeRozan - 28.6%
Lou Williams - 29.4%

That's 53% of the team's three pointers being shot at 26.5%. 

Imagine how good this team could be if they start knocking down shots.


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## Porn Player

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/531895752877178880


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## seifer0406

Not to be a downer but I feel that we haven't been properly tested thus far. Our only real test was against Miami and we lost. After we play the next 6 games that include the Bulls/Grizzlies/Cavs then we'll know where this team is at.


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## Porn Player

^ You can only beat what is put in front of you. 

I think the Raptors world is excited to go against the bigger and better teams, I can't wait to see how we stack up.


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## AllRim

Too close


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## ozzzymandius

Far too close ..... Never should have let themselves fall into that hole.
But... Couple good things.. 
1. Casey is getting much better calling plays out of the time outs. From the begining of last year right until the last third of the season we saw some awful plans ... or no plan at all
2. Second unit was/is huge!! Definitely not the first game they came through and helped us pull back into games (Wizards) .... Depth is a treat we haven't had for years.


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## seifer0406

it's nice to be on the opposite end for once. We were usually the team giving up 4th quarter leads rather than making comebacks.


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## Porn Player

Big game against CHI tonight, if we can take this, we are 8-1 and have beaten the 2nd and 3rd seeds in our conference respectively.


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## seifer0406

JV will be the key tomorrow. He needs to stay out of foul trouble.


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## ozzzymandius

Sooo couple of random thoughts.
1. As a fan it's wonderful too see and believe in the fourth quarter as a rallying point rather than our used-to-be Q4 collapse!! More importantly the team believes in it and they bring that swagger to the court every game.
2. Problem with the above is that they still only play to the levels of their opponents. Not a great thing as it can come back on us if bad habits a re allowed to fester. Especially when you go a few games against lesser teams and then suddenly face a few good ones in a row.
3. When it comes to JV I'm starting to get a little worried. Tremendous potential, but third year in and he's still shaky and inconsistent. And the team still doesn't use him as much as we should. We've got great players at the 1,2,3 and 4 so we don't have to go to the inside all the time ... but still. He should be getting more plays called just for him if we want to see him get to that next level, be consistent and dominate. Whenever we do start feeding him and he gets aggressive and he plays like a champ and we wonder why we don't do it more often. So take games like tonight where we need and want to see him take charge and he hasn't really been effective last couple games .... and yeah I'm worried. 

- Soooo back to the above .... we can only play and beat what's in front of us .... and we play to the level of our opponents .... so I expect we'll play smart and strong right off the bat and have a great game!!


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## Porn Player

Chicago are going to be so fired up for this game, this is exactly the type of night these guys live for. 

If we get the W here, I will be genuinely impressed with how far we have come. 

Your concerns regarding Jonas are warranted, he simply hasn't elevated himself since last year, but as they say, big men always take the longest to get to where they need to be. I will give him another couple of seasons before I decide that this is the real JV.


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## ozzzymandius

Very tight game. Raps came out and did exactly what they needed early. Defense and offense with intensity. Very well played. But in the third we're being exposed. JV having a tough go at it with Pau and foul trouble and it looks like we're losing that intensity. 
Bulls have intimidated us out of the paint. Time for the second unit to switch things up!!


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## seifer0406

I think we need to make some minor trades to bolster our front court. With Amir likely not 100% for the rest of the year (rest of his career possibly), Jonas/Hansborough/Johnson isn't going to cut it especially against the trio of Noah/Gasol/Gibson.

I hope we make a serious push to acquire David West.


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## AllRim

JV and DD have been awful these last 2 games. This mid game from DD is getting kind of annoying. When he is cold he needs to start moving the ball rebounding and at least trying on the defensive end. 

JVs decision making is way to slow right now, he looks sluggish out there. 

James Johnson beast mode in the 1st half, then Casey sits him for the 3rd Q when the Bulls beat us down. Bad Casey baaad

Vasquez has looked like poop all season. 

We are still 7-2 but our only good win came against the Wiz without Beal. We've lost both times we have played good teams. 

I love the Lou and Johnson pickups but we NEED a better front court, come playoffs they are going to get smoked.


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## Porn Player

Don't talk to me. I need a minute.


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## AllRim

minute is up


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## Porn Player

Let's make it two. What a ****ing pathetic 3rd quarter.


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## AllRim

Ya, it hurt. A LOT


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## ozzzymandius

Yup!! Not pretty and worse than I expected .... JV exposed, DeMar couldn't find his resolve to do anything right, Vasquez totally outta control in 3&4 trying to do it all, Amir outplayed in trying to guard Pau (since JV couldn't either)..... 

Bright spots... Lowry even with 5 fouls!! Lou, JJ and Patterson. Just not enough against that squad :-( Good thing is we see this early enough to work on it.. Love the 4th quarter run though. Lotsa heart!!!


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## ozzzymandius

Trades though?? Not quite yet....


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## Porn Player

Maybe I am in the minority but it seems that the team has already developed a reliance on James Johnson and his energy. It's like we can't get anything going when he isn't on the court. 

Oh and if GV tries another no look pass, I'll no look punch him in the face.


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## ozzzymandius

Let's see what tonight brings .... I say watch for a solid start and a near on end to end performance. Bruised egos and humility can go a long way.


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## Porn Player

That 4th QTR was sensational. 

Val with his first impressive line of the year, he seems to like playing his old friend Kanter. 

This Memphis game is a hum-dinger on Wednesday. Arguably the leagues best Backcourt vs Frontcourt.


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## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> That 4th QTR was sensational.


I'm just finishing up this game. It was tied 76-76 at the 10:20 mark of the 4th quarter. The Raptors went on to score 35 points in the last 10 minutes. It's hard to loose when your offense is clicking like that.


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## ozzzymandius

We live and die by our 2nd unit!! Outstanding job keeping us in the game in the third.now with a real chance going late into the fourth.


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## ozzzymandius

Ohhhhh MY Goodness!!!!!


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## AllRim

I have the biggest man crush on Lou Will. 

Oh and Ross took it over in the 4th, that was sexy time


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## Porn Player

ozzzymandius said:


> We live and die by our 2nd unit!! Outstanding job keeping us in the game in the third.now with a real chance going late into the fourth.


Our second unit is strong for sure, but it was Ross and Lowry that won us this game. 

That 4th quarter may have been the most enjoyable section of any basketball game that I have ever seen. The heart and the hustle were tremendous, and now we have a real depth of talent that can put the ball in the hoop. 

We just knocked off the best team in the league. We're 9-2. We're top of the Eastern Conference.


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## seifer0406

Hopefully we won't have a let down game tomorrow against the Bucks. These Bucks are playing some good basketball. Brandon Knight is having breakout season and the Greek Freak recently got into the starting lineup and has been producing since. Without James Johnson it's going to be tough guarding all of their athletic wing players.


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## ozzzymandius

We'll just throw Fields at them at that'll silence 'em !!!

... even if its only cause they're laughing so hard .... hahahaaa

..ok he's actually a decent defender and itching for a chance so I'm sure he'll be fine


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## seifer0406

Bruno's season debut


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## Porn Player




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## Porn Player




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## Porn Player




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## AllRim

Man our fans at the acc are GREAT!!! Up 40 and they are still chanting for defense. The the lets go Bruno chants gave me chills, imagine how Bruno felt!! 

His jumper looks so smooth. Hes still very raw, but that potential is definitely there though. 

Time to lay a beating on the cavs!!!


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## Porn Player

AllRim said:


> Man our fans at the acc are GREAT!!! Up 40 and they are still chanting for defense. The the lets go Bruno chants gave me chills, imagine how Bruno felt!!
> 
> His jumper looks so smooth. Hes still very raw, but that potential is definitely there though.
> 
> Time to lay a beating on the cavs!!!


How calm was he? The place was going nuts for him and he just sunk a corner 3 ball like it was no thing. 

Only 5 hours until the Cavaliers game. I started drinking 2 hours ago, I will be wild by the time we see tip-off.


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## ozzzymandius

Porn Player said:


> How calm was he? The place was going nuts for him and he just sunk a corner 3 ball like it was no thing.
> 
> Only 5 hours until the Cavaliers game. I started drinking 2 hours ago, I will be wild by the time we see tip-off.


.
.
.

I hope you're well under the table by now and you're not seeing this start!... Jesus it's ugly :-( Every single time I get a chance to sit back and watch the game some shit show starts up!!!


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## ozzzymandius

Lou Williams, Hayes and Patterson doing a better job than our starters... AGAIN!!
Seems to me that our bench can calm things down, do a better job of defending and putting the ball in the bucket than our starters do when they start like that.


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## ozzzymandius

27 of 35 points from our second unit at this point ... and now down by 3 ??!! This team is enough to make you wanna jump from that ledge sometimes....


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## ozzzymandius

Ok ... at halftime we're up by 2!?!?? ... courtesy of LouWills!! Absolutely stone cold.. WOW!! So we're back in the game again thanks to 2nd unit and if it's one thing we can do well is close out in Q4. So it's even money at this point. Hold on folks... we're in for a crazzzy ride home!!


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## ozzzymandius

AllRim said:


> I have the biggest man crush on Lou Will.


I don't know what to say .... What a game!! What a SOLID performance!
Did you guys see that fake on Lebron .... totally schooled him!


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## AllRim

My man crush on lou got even bigger.


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## Porn Player

ozzzymandius said:


> I hope you're well under the table by now and you're not seeing this start!... Jesus it's ugly :-( Every single time I get a chance to sit back and watch the game some shit show starts up!!!


I never made the game. Coddamnit. 



AllRim said:


> My man crush on lou got even bigger.


This was a career night for Lou Williams. He is only 28 years old. 

The fact we got him and Bebe from ATL for John Salmons is simply astounding. In Masai we trust. 

11-2.


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## ozzzymandius

That guy Ujiri is a flippin genius!!! :yay: I had forgotten how Lou came to be with the team. 
Then there's his pickup of Caboclo... seriously fun and good get there too. 

Best part was there were about 600 Raptor fans at the game and they were cheering so loudly that they had To crank up the audio system just to drone them out!! :canada: hahahaaaaa


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## AllRim

Dont forget we got Bebe in that deal with lou as well. Its almost as good as the Bargs trade


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## Porn Player

Porn Player said:


> The fact we got him and Bebe from ATL for John Salmons is simply astounding. In Masai we trust.





AllRim said:


> Dont forget we got Bebe in that deal with lou as well. Its almost as good as the Bargs trade


Errr...


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## AllRim

Porn Player said:


> Errr...


Ahh didn't see that.


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## Porn Player

Too busy looking at the standings...


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## AllRim

Ya. We are no longer only 1st in the East.....But 1st overall!!!! Home court for the NBA finals!!!!


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## Porn Player

AllRim said:


> Ya. We are no longer only 1st in the East.....But 1st overall!!!! Home court for the NBA finals!!!!


Not quite, Memphis won last night and moved to 12-2.


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## AllRim

Porn Player said:


> Not quite, Memphis won last night and moved to 12-2.


Stupid Memphis....

Going to be tough tonight vs the Suns. But Raps win 130-124:yesyesyes:


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## seifer0406

I like our chances against the Suns. They have a 9-5 record but they've only beaten 1 quality team out of those 9 wins (against the Warriors). They're on a 4 game winning streak but those 4 wins came against Sixers, Pacers, Celtics, and Pistons. As long as we keep up the good defense and rebounding we should be fine against them.


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## seifer0406

This would've been a fluke victory for Phoenix had they completed the comeback. Our defense in the 4th wasn't stellar but it wasn't bad either. The Suns made a truckload of unbelievable shots. Had a couple of those shots missed this could've easily been a blowout.


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## Porn Player

seifer0406 said:


> This would've been a fluke victory for Phoenix had they completed the comeback. Our defense in the 4th wasn't stellar but it wasn't bad either. The Suns made a truckload of unbelievable shots. Had a couple of those shots missed this could've easily been a blowout.


Kyle Lowry was just all out hustle this game. His desire to win is what sets us apart from other teams at the moment, and is what sets him apart from the other players on our team. He literally leaves it all on the court. 

12-2 is a great achievement. 

If we can take care of ATL, I think we could hit 15-2 before the close of this month.


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## RollWithEm

It's still hard to believe that the Rudy Gay trade solidified two franchises so well. Is that one of the all-time win-win trades in NBA history?


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## Bogg

You guys are.......y'all are pretty good.


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## ozzzymandius

What made me happy ironically was ...
Patterson.. 2pts Vasquez.. 2pts Amir .. 2pts
J.Johnson ... 0pts ... (but he only played 4mins cautionary minutes only)
.
.
And the point is any one of those guys could have delivered an A-list performance ... so even with those guys struggling the rest of the team found a way to win!! That's a depth we haven't had in over a decade, if ever! 4 out of our 10 who played in the game contributed 6 points!! And we still won!! Now that's a wonderful kinda crazy that everyone should love.

Props to JV!! Best game ever and only a glimpse into what could be ... mind you he had no one at the C to contain him. But still ... wicked game for him with more to come!


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## Porn Player

13-2. 

If we beat Dallas, we will reach 14 wins an entire month before we did last season. 

This team is just clicking and doing everything they need to get the W at the minute. Lou Williams and Greivis Vasquez were incredibly against the Hawks, 43 points from two bench guards is ridiculous.


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## ozzzymandius

DeMar out indefinitely with torn left adductor longus tendon (?) Basically it's not good and that's gonna take a while to recover from .... :-( And even with him out we only lost to Dallas by 4! Soooo I'm thinking we'll manage against the lesser teams (Lakers, Kings-actually not see easy, Jazz) but we're going to be in rough shape against the Cavs again (5th and 12) and the Nuggets on the 8th.

Steady the ship mates, there's rough waters ahead!!


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## seifer0406

This hurts.....There are talks that Demar might be out for the year. I've heard anywhere from 8 weeks to 8 month for recovery. This will really depend on the degree of the tear.

I think the Raptors can still make the playoffs without Demar so hopefully he'll make it back before the playoffs. On the positive note this is the chance for Terrence Ross to turn the corner.


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## Porn Player

Not what we needed at such a pivotal moment for this franchise.


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## seifer0406

I think we have the depth to still make the playoffs even if DeRozan is out for 2-3 months. I would expect James Johnson to be in the starting lineup as the 3 and Ross moving to the 2. Instead of Landry Fields getting playing time I think Casey should give Bruno a chance for that job.


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## ozzzymandius

Bruno getting a bigger chance than expected would be great to see. But even then it should only be in blowout (one way or the other) conditions. I'm expecting JJ, Ross, LouWills and Fields to cover up the shortage. Good thing is I think we are deep enough to cover this up. 
Let's see what happens tonight.


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## Porn Player

I'm not a fan of GV starting. I'm also at a loss as to why Lowry doesn't seem to feed Ross when he gets hot.


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## RollWithEm

This is the first sign of adversity for this team this season. Let's see how they respond.


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## ozzzymandius

Yeah I'm expecting to see more changes. Lots of good from last night but it was by far just their first step in figuring this out. Still no big loss on point production ... have to tighten up the defense though cause that's what cost us the game!!

Lou-Wills should be starting as Vasquez is better coming off of the bench and LW's production is much higher. Still allows us to run with two PG's too 

Also noticed Fields is still not even in the toughts for extra time ...Good to see Handsbrough back in the lineup though!! Good quality production and stops from him.


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## Porn Player

Big game against a tough Western conference team tonight. 

Valanciunas and Cousins had a bit of a rumble over the summer at FIBA, so let's see how they go at each other tonight.


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## Porn Player

Kyle Lowry. Enough said.


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## AllRim

I didn't get to watch the game, but from the box scores I was watching, Ross went for 15 in the 1st Q then pretty much got shut down. What happened?


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## ozzzymandius

The game was great!! Ross was a killer in the first half .. I'm not sure what happened either, we stagnated in the second and third. Ball wasn't moving as well, too many people trying to do things on their own and he wasn't getting the ball anymore. Then he went cold and that was the end of that until the fourth when we took it home. So nothing really 'happened' per se. And though they caught up the game was never really in question even in the last few minutes. It was all ours from start to finish.


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## AllRim

Man Lowry is a sexy beast


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## ozzzymandius

^^ I'll accept the beast part ... hahaaa

Complete focus from start to finish from the whole team .. It still freaks me out.


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## Porn Player

I am very pleased to see us secure two wins in a row and for us to regain our footing.


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## ozzzymandius

Just finished watching the Cavs / Knicks game ... and you know, even though the Cavs won I just don't see the unity, cohesiveness and discipline (esp. from Irving himself - selfish, cocky) needed to win against us. Interesting what you see when watching another team but I think they were sloppy on both ends of the court. LeBron doesn't have control of this team yet and it shows. Should be interesting ;-)


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## AllRim

I really hope we smash the Cavs without DD.


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## AllRim

ozzzymandius said:


> ^^ I'll accept the beast part ... hahaaa
> 
> Complete focus from start to finish from the whole team .. It still freaks me out.


that ass though


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## seifer0406

I think James Johnson should get the start in this one. Neither Ross nor Vasquez has a chance at guarding Lebron.


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## ozzzymandius

I think ROSS can handle it. Lebron is not the focus of the offense. He's playing tht role of the passer and facilitator these days. And in that regards Ross will do just fine. 
http://i.tsn.ca/story/?id=475258

Lowry will watch Kyrie and we'll be set. Good game coming up but I'm calling Raptors by 8.


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## ozzzymandius

What a shit show!!


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## seifer0406

I really think James Johnson should start in place of Greivis. Since Demar went down even when we were winning our defense has been crap. James Johnson while is challenged offensively fixes a lot of our defensive problems.

With James Johnson starting I think Bruno should get a crack at some playing time.


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## JS03

Raptors.


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## Porn Player

JS03 said:


> Raptors.


It's been a while. It's nice to see some old names (including mine) in your Mo Pete Fan Club! 

p.s. I hate the Cavaliers.


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## Bogg

Any plans by you guys to turn one or more of those expendable expirings into one more piece? I feel like you could come out ahead in the right buyer's market.


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## Porn Player

Bogg said:


> Any plans by you guys to turn one or more of those expendable expirings into one more piece? I feel like you could come out ahead in the right buyer's market.


Ujiri has said he plans to stick with what we have. He wants to see our players grow. No time for poker...




... yet


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## AllRim

Bogg said:


> Any plans by you guys to turn one or more of those expendable expirings into one more piece? I feel like you could come out ahead in the right buyer's market.


With the Nets going into sell off mode, KG would be perfect off our bench...

I really hope we do make a move, we lack rebounding. Come playoff time thats going to KILL us.


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## Bogg

AllRim said:


> With the Nets going into sell off mode, KG would be perfect off our bench...
> 
> I really hope we do make a move, we lack rebounding. Come playoff time thats going to KILL us.


I've thought that too. With what their tax payments are, you should be able to snag him for nothing more than the minimum total amount of expiring contracts required to make the salary-matching legal. He'd be an upgrade on Chuck Hayes, I know that much.

EDIT: I didn't realize you guys were into tax territory, and that makes it a little tougher, but Landry Fields and Tyler Hansbrough for Garnett works, backs Brooklyn's cap figure down about $2.5 million (even though Field's discrepancy between the money owed and his cap figure eat most of that up, the Nets save a significant amount in tax payments) and gives them Hansbrough, who's at least playable, to keep it from being a complete salary-dump. Garnett has to waive his no-trade clause, but he seems miserable in Brooklyn and I feel like he'd do it to join the current top seed in the East.


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## ozzzymandius

The prospect of dumping Fields is very attractive!! I really think his best years are behind him and he's not adding enough value off the bench compared to what we could have. Losing Tyler though is a bit of a hit, but in exchange for Garnett it would be another major coup!
BUT I have some hesitations on that ... we all know what KG can do and what he brings to the table, but I don't know if his kind of intensity would click or clash with the tight chemistry and leaders we already have on our team. We simply have a different kind of group leadership than what he brings and I'd be very cautious about inserting that kind of a spark plug into our engine.


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## Junkyard Dog13

do it Ujri in a heartbeat, come playoff time he is like the biggest roach that just won't do even after numerous KO attempt hits.


----------



## seifer0406

I think the reason why Fields is playing now is for showcasing.


----------



## AllRim

seifer0406 said:


> I think the reason why Fields is playing now is for showcasing.


I don't think so. Casey obviously wants to keep the bench chemistry together. And Fields at least is a very capable defender, and moves very well without the ball on offense. 

Ugly win tonight.....ugh


----------



## ozzzymandius

I'm starting to think that playing without DD is a good thing to bring this team back to basics and make them work through these lapses. If at all anything I expect to see better and more consistent defense cause they obviously can't always rely on offense.


----------



## seifer0406

I wonder wheres @c_dog

I want to ask him whether he still thinks Lowry should've been paid 8 mil a year


----------



## ozzzymandius

Perfect game example of just what I was talking about ... win with the defense when the offense is sluggish and messy!! These kinda wins will definitely do us good down the stretch.


----------



## ozzzymandius

How good is it as a fan when you look forward to watching the game all day long knowing full-well that the other guys have no chance against you!!
And how sweet is that when it actually happens ...........


----------



## seifer0406

I think besides Lowry, Amir is our most important player. Our offense is just so much better when he's on the floor.


----------



## AllRim

If we had JJ last season we would've made it to the 2nd round easily.......


----------



## seifer0406

Yeah I don't know if it was tired legs since they played last night but iso Joe was shut down in the 2nd half as soon as James Johnson came in.


----------



## Porn Player

We're back, winning streak of 4 games and we're an incredible 14 games over .500%. 

Lowry is leading this team to places we have never been, and he is doing so with his bulldog spirit and a bucket load of talent.


----------



## Bogg

For what it's worth, with Boston looking like they're going to pull the ripcord Toronto could probably snag Jeff Green for an expiring and one of Ross or a first-round pick. You guys would wind up with something of a logjam on the wing, with either Ross or Johnson losing a big chunk of playing time, but Fields and a pick in the twenties for Green isn't a bad deal if the Raptors are looking to make a run at the Finals in a bad Eastern Conference.


----------



## Porn Player

Bogg said:


> For what it's worth, with Boston looking like they're going to pull the ripcord Toronto could probably snag Jeff Green for an expiring and one of Ross or a first-round pick. You guys would wind up with something of a logjam on the wing, with either Ross or Johnson losing a big chunk of playing time, but Fields and a pick in the twenties for Green isn't a bad deal if the Raptors are looking to make a run at the Finals in a bad Eastern Conference.


I'd bite your hand off for Fields + Pick. Make it happen Bogg!


----------



## Bogg

Porn Player said:


> I'd bite your hand off for Fields + Pick. Make it happen Bogg!


I mean, I'm not in love with the idea, because picking that late in the first round you're simply hoping to get a guy who might someday be as good as Jeff Green, but that's supposedly Ainge's asking price and if they're moving Rondo then they're probably going all-out to make sure they don't accidentally back into the playoffs. Green seems like a good opportunity for a lot of a playoff teams to add a supporting scorer.


----------



## Porn Player




----------



## Porn Player

Terrence Ross just nearly took off from the free throw line. He is having a really good game.


----------



## Porn Player

BRUNO.


----------



## Porn Player

BEBE.


----------



## Porn Player

Blowout win against the Knicks.


----------



## AllRim

Next set of games are going to be very tough without DD


----------



## seifer0406

I'll be glad if we win 2 out of the next 6. Be thrilled if we can win 3 or more.


----------



## Porn Player

We definitely have a rough schedule coming up, but we couldn't be in better shape after the past 6. 

I actually think we might take the Bulls today.


----------



## RollWithEm

8-3 without DeMar? I'd say that's getting it done.


----------



## ozzzymandius

I'd be happy with 3-3. This is really going to be a good litmus test. 
Heard talk that Demar could be back around mid January.


----------



## seifer0406

RollWithEm said:


> 8-3 without DeMar? I'd say that's getting it done.


The last time we beat a quality team was last month against Atlanta. Beating bottom teams are what we're suppose to do but we're not nearly as good as our record. We're on pace to win 60+ games but I say that we're a 55 win team at the most especially without Demar for 2 months.

Tonight's game against Chicago again exposes our lack of quality big men. JV has done an admirable job scoring down low but besides him we simply don't have anyone that can score in the low post.


----------



## AllRim

James Johnson is looking realy nice. But yes, we need a legit PF


----------



## Porn Player

Amir Johnson is really starting to piss me off. How can you score 2 points as a starter?


----------



## AllRim

Porn Player said:


> Amir Johnson is really starting to piss me off. How can you score 2 points as a starter?


He really hasn't fit in well this season at all. But now his defense and rebounding has really fell off.


----------



## Porn Player

They scored 49 on us in the 4th QTR. 

It's so bad that it's funny.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Enter Jeff Green! And then relegate Amir to come off the bench.


----------



## Porn Player

ozzzymandius said:


> Enter Jeff Green! And then relegate Amir to come off the bench.


Something needs to happen. Jeff Green is actually the same size as Amir.


----------



## seifer0406

I didn't watch the game but this sounds like the win of the season.


----------



## Porn Player

seifer0406 said:


> I didn't watch the game but this sounds like the win of the season.


We were just a lot better than they were. The 1st quarter was horrible for both teams, neither could buy a bucket. After that, we tightened up and Lowry and Valanciunas just consistently provided buckets and defense. 

Lou Williams drilling two back to back long balls really killed the Clippers in the 4th as well.


----------



## ozzzymandius

I'm traveling so I missed it too :'-( Reviews were good saying it was a game to be proud of. Might check it out on ballstreams....


----------



## AllRim

West Coast swing is childs play


----------



## Porn Player

AllRim said:


> West Coast swing is childs play


It would appear so. 

Lowry is on a mission to get himself into that All-Star game. The man management of Ujiri to this roster can not be understated, he said all of the right things when Lowry didn't make it to the big game, and it lit a fire under the Bulldog, and now we are all witness.


----------



## Porn Player

17 games over .500% for the first time in Franchise history too. 

This is without DeMar DeRozan. Holy **** balls, I want to do a little dance.


----------



## Porn Player

Next up, the Blazers. Just a huge game between the best in the East and the form team in the West right now. 

If we win here, we break the internet.


----------



## seifer0406

I wasn't that happy with our 4th quarter execution down the stretch. The result was good but for a long stretch we were just jacking up 3s after 3s. Against a team like Denver our defense is solid enough to withstand those wasted offensive possessions but if we want to beat elite teams we'll have to be better.


----------



## Porn Player

seifer0406 said:


> I wasn't that happy with our 4th quarter execution down the stretch. The result was good but for a long stretch we were just jacking up 3s after 3s. Against a team like Denver our defense is solid enough to withstand those wasted offensive possessions but if we want to beat elite teams we'll have to be better.


It was a back-to-back game, I can imagine the boys were a little drained from the night before. Despite that, we put up 110+ points again, that's got to viewed as impressive, especially with our top scorer sidelined.

The only person that I don't like to see jacking up those 3 balls is GV, I have a lot of faith in our other shooters (Lou, K-Low, Patterson). 

I'm just scouting around the internet, and I'm getting kind of sick at the lack of respect the actual NBA (official) media gives us. We're 10th in their power rankings, yet on almost every other ranking nationwide, we're 3rd or 4th. 

How can the best team in the East be considered 10th?


----------



## seifer0406

Porn Player said:


> It was a back-to-back game, I can imagine the boys were a little drained from the night before. Despite that, we put up 110+ points again, that's got to viewed as impressive, especially with our top scorer sidelined.
> 
> The only person that I don't like to see jacking up those 3 balls is GV, I have a lot of faith in our other shooters (Lou, K-Low, Patterson).
> 
> I'm just scouting around the internet, and I'm getting kind of sick at the lack of respect the actual NBA (official) media gives us. We're 10th in their power rankings, yet on almost every other ranking nationwide, we're 3rd or 4th.
> 
> How can the best team in the East be considered 10th?


I think Chicago at full strength is clearly better than us (minus DeRozan) right now. I don't feel that Atlanta is better than us(we've beaten them twice already) so it's puzzling that they're ahead of us in some rankings. I do think that almost the entire Western conference playoff teams minus the Suns and Clippers are better than us right now. I would rank us 8th in the league and definitely not lower than #10 . When DeRozan comes back I think we can potentially move up to the 5/6 range.


----------



## seifer0406

We're now ranked #5 on ESPN and NBA.com. I don't know if we're the 5th best team in the league but it's nice to get some recognition.


----------



## AllRim

Porn Player said:


> It was a back-to-back game, I can imagine the boys were a little drained from the night before. Despite that, we put up 110+ points again, that's got to viewed as impressive, especially with our top scorer sidelined.
> 
> The only person that I don't like to see jacking up those 3 balls is GV, I have a lot of faith in our other shooters (Lou, K-Low, Patterson).
> 
> I'm just scouting around the internet, and I'm getting kind of sick at the lack of respect the actual NBA (official) media gives us. We're 10th in their power rankings, yet on almost every other ranking nationwide, we're 3rd or 4th.
> 
> How can the best team in the East be considered 10th?


CBS has us as #1 !!!!


----------



## AllRim

Great game. Lowry missed some key shots he normally makes, he makes those shots we win the game.

Those clear break calls killed me, I was cussing a storm at the TV. Vasquez had the angle on him then stupidly went behind and fouled....WTF!!!! 

Refs were brutal on both sides, but those moving screen calls on Amir and the weird calls in favour of LMA in the 4th while JV was getting ambushed all game was questionable. 

It is was it is, a game we should've been able to win but we blew it. 

I think that was the most angry I have been post game all season. 

On a happy note, I got Raptors tickets for XMAS and I'm taking my 2 year old to his 1st Raps game to see AD and the Pels on the 18th!!! GO RAPS GO


----------



## ozzzymandius

Good to see Amir finally coming up with a solid effort game on both sides of the court!!
Lots of energy in this first half. Raps again proving defense is a huge part of every game.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Uggggggly third quarter gets us in trouble AGAIN!! 
Too many turnovers and single efforts. Gotta make that extra pass and inch our way back in here! It's not totally lost yet.


----------



## ozzzymandius

The boys showed up and ready to play ... Lots of great individual effort.. Vasquez, LouWills, Amir, Patterson, Lowry ... but those one-off efforts on offense cost us too many empty possessions. Needed to share a hell of a lot more. And it makes the game so easy when we do.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Always had a tremendous amount of respect for Steve Kerr though so really good to see him winning like this in his first year. And how much does it help to have a three point specialist like that as a coach! They were hitting from everywhere!


----------



## Ballscientist

AllRim said:


> CBS has us as [URL=http://www.basketballforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] !!!!


Raptors are #1 .

Interesting!!


----------



## Porn Player

That GSW team is just phenomenal. It's so difficult to stop them for an entire game.


----------



## AllRim

Porn Player said:


> That GSW team is just phenomenal. It's so difficult to stop them for an entire game.


Did they even miss a shot? Damn Curry is on another level.


----------



## Porn Player

I've followed Steph Curry since he was 17, so it's a real joy to see his success (...especially after the injuries he has come through). 

Losing 1st spot in the East to ATL is a shame, but it should motivate us to work hard and get it back. A loss like this can show the team more than a winning streak, I'm intrigued to see if they can learn from it. 

We really need to take down PHX in our next game, otherwise the doubters will have a field day.


----------



## seifer0406

DeMar DeRozan Expected To Return From Injury On Thursday

Read more at http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...n-From-Injury-On-Thursday#S34EYhufRFuwKL48.99

This is great news. I was actually expecting him to come back after the Allstar break. Hopefully Demar didn't rush himself because this type of injury has a high risk of reaggravation.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Good thing about Demar. Lowry has to drive himself a bit too hard for my liking. DeMar will really help spread the floor and make things a bit easier..... But then we also have complete failures like tonight (and right now) where nothing matters or is going to help. I actually feel for Phoenix fans who paid money to see this shit show.


----------



## seifer0406

Where DeRozan helps out the most is on the defensive end. It's not that he's an exceptional defensive player(he's above average) but the fact that his ability to get to the line eliminates transition possibilities for the other team.


----------



## Porn Player

Wow. Last night was poor. 

DD coming back should definitely help solidify our defense. He will also create space offensively and his ability to draw fouls and get easy points will be a major upgrade.


----------



## seifer0406

seifer0406 said:


> I'll be glad if we win 2 out of the next 6. Be thrilled if we can win 3 or more.


Just about what I expected out of the road trip. With Demar back our defense should be better but I still think we need to make some minor moves to bolster our front court depth.


----------



## Bogg

seifer0406 said:


> Just about what I expected out of the road trip. With Demar back our defense should be better but I still think we need to make some minor moves to bolster our front court depth.


Jeff Green and Brandon Bass for the Fields/Hayes/Hansbrough expirings, a first, and a second. C'mon, do it. Just do it. Don't think about it.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Do it!!! I'm soooo IN with that one!!!


----------



## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> Jeff Green and Brandon Bass for the Fields/Hayes/Hansbrough expirings, a first, and a second. C'mon, do it. Just do it. Don't think about it.


Not a bad move for them. That late first means way more to the Celtics than it would to the Raptors at this point.


----------



## seifer0406

DeRozan won't be back until next week. We better player better defense during this upcoming homestand.


----------



## Porn Player

I'm not even mad at that loss vs Charlotte. They were just in the zone and made us pay. Henderson and Kemba looked like Jordan and Kobe for stretches.


----------



## seifer0406

Ross has been playing like garbage these last 2 weeks. It just amazes me that he has gone to the line more than 2 times just 3 times in 35 games. For someone who's by far the best athlete on the roster, this just frustrates me to no end. On defense he just got abused by Gerald Henderson. I understand that Ross has the quickness to guard opposing PGs, but since Lowry cannot guard 2s and 3s, what good does that do for us since Ross can't guard who he is suppose to guard? While the defense will improve when DeRozan returns, I would like to see a trade to upgrade the 3/4 positions and push Ross to the bench for now. He's decent as a 3pt specialist but I feel that the negatives outweighs the positives when he's playing starter minutes.


----------



## RollWithEm

seifer0406 said:


> Ross has been playing like garbage these last 2 weeks. It just amazes me that he has gone to the line more than 2 times just 3 times in 35 games. For someone who's by far the best athlete on the roster, this just frustrates me to no end. On defense he just got abused by Gerald Henderson. I understand that Ross has the quickness to guard opposing PGs, but since Lowry cannot guard 2s and 3s, what good does that do for us since Ross can't guard who he is suppose to guard? While the defense will improve when DeRozan returns, I would like to see a trade to upgrade the 3/4 positions and push Ross to the bench for now. He's decent as a 3pt specialist but I feel that the negatives outweighs the positives when he's playing starter minutes.


Would you deal Ross for a guy like Jeff Green?


----------



## seifer0406

RollWithEm said:


> Would you deal Ross for a guy like Jeff Green?


no, not a straight up trade. I still think Ross can improve so I would rather the Raptors keep him unless an enticing trade comes along. Getting just Jeff Green wouldn't be an enticing trade.


----------



## Porn Player

Sigh. I hope we at least made an attempt at Green.



> The Memphis Grizzlies are nearing completion on a trade with the Boston Celtics for Jeff Green.
> 
> The Celtics would acquire TayShaun Prince and a first round pick from the Grizzlies for Green. The Grizzlies will send a heavily protected pick that likely won't be conveyed to the Celtics before 2019.
> 
> The two sides are waiting on a third team to get involved to finalize the trade with the New Orleans Pelicans entering the picture. The Pelicans could acquire Quincy Pondexter, while sending out John Salmons to the Celtics.


----------



## seifer0406

well there are still guys like David West, Garnett, Wilson Chandler. I would be happy to get either one of these 3 players.


----------



## ozzzymandius

seifer0406 said:


> Ross has been playing like garbage these last 2 weeks. It just amazes me that he has gone to the line more than 2 times just 3 times in 35 games. For someone who's by far the best athlete on the roster, this just frustrates me to no end. On defense he just got abused by Gerald Henderson. I understand that Ross has the quickness to guard opposing PGs, but since Lowry cannot guard 2s and 3s, what good does that do for us since Ross can't guard who he is suppose to guard? .


I've been quick to defend Ross ... But if late I'd have to agree. I don't know what his problem is. But certainly disappointing to not see the aggressor he could be on offence come out. I wouldn't trade him though. Still too raw and too much upswing to even want to think that yet. 


Really disappointing to not even try for Green though. I think he would have been the best fit for us. Still wouldn't want KG either. But let's see what comes by the trade deadline. We've still got lotsa time.


----------



## Porn Player

We needed that win. The ball finally started to move on offense and that level of distribution is vital for us to beat other teams. We're a collective, we can't do hero ball.

JJ back into the starting line up made a real difference.


----------



## seifer0406

ozzzymandius said:


> I've been quick to defend Ross ... But if late I'd have to agree. I don't know what his problem is. But certainly disappointing to not see the aggressor he could be on offence come out. I wouldn't trade him though. Still too raw and too much upswing to even want to think that yet.


I think some players are just afraid of contact. I was watching some pre-draft scouting reports of Ross and a lack of FT attempts has been one of his weaknesses even back then. 3 years into league Ross hasn't made an ounce of progress in that regard and it's frustrating. I don't expect him to be like DeMar and just barrel into the lane but Ross can at least be more like Lou Williams and get ft attempts via fakes and whatnot. To just be a spot up shooter when you're that athletic is just a waste of talent.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Well in that case I'm hoping he really starts to learn a few things from Demar. As I recall Demar was like that too for the first few years and only really started developing when Rudy came in and even more so when he left and he and Kyle started working a little closer. So jury's still out on Ross ...

But to be sure Ross is better when Demar's around to suck in the defense and give him cleaner looks!! That last loss was a real crusher so I'm hoping (expecting) to see Demar back in the lineup tonight. Better for him to ease into a few minutes tonight against the Sixers as opposed to Friday when he (and the rest of the team) would be pressed against the Hawks .... So if I can figure that out, I'm expecting him to and we'll see him tonight and a return to the flow.

Props to JV !!! Breakout year is finally here!  After flashes last year and from time to time this year, I'm expecting the team to make him a regular option!!


----------



## Porn Player

Thank the scheduling Gods for giving us the 76ers tonight...


----------



## ozzzymandius

Exactly what we needed!! DeMar was In game shape and contributed just the lift we were looking for.


----------



## Porn Player

That was an absolute beatdown. The Hawks had us in every aspect of the game. Ouch. 

We were far too sloppy with the ball, especially Amir.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Down Right *embarrassing*!!! Easily outclassed on both ends of the court. What the hell is up with Vasquez's shooting? Terrence "chicken little" Ross who avoids the paint like the plague unless he's wide open? Yikes it was awful !!!

Anyways .... Apparently the team had an internal meeting afterwards and hopefully this ass kicking gets them back on track. We'll see tomorrow..


----------



## Knick Killer

Atlanta owned Toronto on both ends of the floor last night. From the second the game started, the Raptors looked awful on offense and could never get into a rhythm.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Ohhhh Myyy GOD!!


----------



## Porn Player

And the gloss has officially worn off.


----------



## seifer0406

Glad to see Casey pulled the plug on Terrence Ross. I don't want to see Ross starting until he earns it. His minutes have basically been given to him out of necessity ever since Gay was traded. I would rather see James Johnson or even Landry Fields starting even if that means we can't spread the floor.

Maybe we should try to acquire Wilson Chandler? I think Nik Stauskas is also available but he like Ross is also unproven. I think Stauskas might do better than Ross because at least Stauskas can put the ball on the floor from time to time.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Lots of smiles and laughs at the end of this one. 
TRoss with a very good and productive night. Coming off the bench seems to be an effective option.

Needed this one big time!

Props to Patterson, JV, Vasquez, LouWills, Lowry and even DeMar who struggled. Conditioning and legs a big factor there. Most of his deep shots were short.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Tossing up bricks to start. 6 minutes left in the first attempt and its 17-5 !!!
No reason to panic and I'm sure we'll be fine but 5 points ?!?! Really !! WTF?!?


----------



## Basel

ozzzymandius said:


> Tossing up bricks to start. 6 minutes left in the first attempt and its 17-5 !!!
> No reason to panic and I'm sure we'll be fine but 5 points ?!?! Really !! WTF?!?


Started 15-0.


----------



## ozzzymandius

15-0 !!! Good thing I missed the start then... 
And now at the half we're up and all is normal. 
But still !! I hope Casey still shares some of his thoughts with them on that start.


----------



## Porn Player

I really enjoy beating Detroit. It's a shame that Jennings went down, I would have liked them to continue there resurgence. (I guess they still might, DJ Augustin is a very good point guard to have as a backup). 

A win against the Pacers would help us get back some of that early season momentum.


----------



## seifer0406

I agree with what the guys at the Raptorsrepublic have been saying about the team. Our team got too good too quickly. Coming back down to earth is a good way to remind the guys that they aren't amongst the best in the league yet. Once we climb our way out of this slump the team will become better afterwards.


----------



## Porn Player

4 in a row, with a strong performance against the Sacremento Kings. We're seemingly finding our way back. 

Terrence Ross has found his groove coming off the bench, he made some really great plays last night. 

Next up BKN, so I figure we'll extend to 5 in a row before a big test against WAS on Saturday.


----------



## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> Next up BKN, so I figure we'll extend to 5 in a row before a big test against WAS on Saturday.


Just counting out the team that beat you guys in the playoffs last year, huh? Interesting.


----------



## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> Just counting out the team that beat you guys in the playoffs last year, huh? Interesting.


You believe they are the same team? In fact, do you believe we are the same time?


----------



## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> You believe they are the same team? In fact, do you believe we are the same time?


I merely believe that anything can happen in the NBA regular season. That's a Brooklyn team fighting for a playoff spot. Don't just cross them off as a win.


----------



## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> I merely believe that anything can happen in the NBA regular season. That's a Brooklyn team fighting for a playoff spot. Don't just cross them off as a win.


I'll do what the **** I want. I'll cross you off in a minute, without a thought, without a trace.


----------



## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> I'll do what the **** I want. I'll cross you off in a minute, without a thought, without a trace.


What time is it in Jolly Ole Ingerland? Are you posting from the pub?


----------



## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> What time is it in Jolly Ole Ingerland? Are you posting from the pub?


Not yet. T-minus 1 hour until the pub.


----------



## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> Just counting out the team that beat you guys in the playoffs last year, huh? Interesting.


Good morning. 

5 in a row.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Great friggin game!!! A lost lead, but somehow I wasn't even worried (much) going into overtime. Totally our game from the start.


----------



## Porn Player

6 in a row.


----------



## seifer0406

We need to stop having these 4th quarter meltdowns.


----------



## Porn Player

... but we're so good in OT


----------



## AllRim

That game was 100% loose poop. Lowry was chuck happy to start, Lou Will was chuck happy mid game, out 2nd unit brought us back some how and then got gassed. 

I know they did well to bring us back in it, but I wish Casey would've brought in some of the starters sooner. 

JV double double in the 1st half, then rides the pine in the 2nd half........ugh


----------



## Porn Player

I expected last night. The guys looked gassed and this Bucks team plays with a lot of heart.


----------



## RollWithEm

Quietly, the Bucks are riding a little 4-game win streak with 3 of the 4 against playoff teams and 3 of the 4 coming on the road. Jason Kidd is doing a fantastic job with this group.


----------



## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> Quietly, the Bucks are riding a little 4-game win streak with 3 of the 4 against playoff teams and 3 of the 4 coming on the road. Jason Kidd is doing a fantastic job with this group.


And Dwayne Casey is doing a horrible job with ours.


----------



## seifer0406

Kind of expected last night's loss. We had 4 games in 5 nights or something like that and guys are bound to be tired. Still it's a bit disappointing that we lost to a mediocre team that was missing their best player.

If we're not going to start Ross the rest of the year then we really need to find a shooting guard or small forward that can start for us. Playing Vasquez and Lowry together is not a lineup that we would want to be using come playoff time. Lowry's defense has dipped this year (likely due to him being more focused on offense) and Vasquez isn't much of a defender either.


----------



## AllRim

seifer0406 said:


> Kind of expected last night's loss. We had 4 games in 5 nights or something like that and guys are bound to be tired. Still it's a bit disappointing that we lost to a mediocre team that was missing their best player.
> 
> If we're not going to start Ross the rest of the year then we really need to find a shooting guard or small forward that can start for us. Playing Vasquez and Lowry together is not a lineup that we would want to be using come playoff time. Lowry's defense has dipped this year (likely due to him being more focused on offense) and Vasquez isn't much of a defender either.


We are getting torched on a nightly basis by pgs. Lowrys D has slipped a lot


----------



## Porn Player

TAKE GV OUT OF THE ****ING LINE UP YOU MORON.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Personally I think Lowry has slipped not only in D but on O as well over the last few games since Demar came back. And as much as I'd like to see GV out of the starting lineup I don't want to see him replaced by still underachieving Ross (I know he's been doing better but I'm still not convinced) ....our options seem to be slipping here :-( 

Next few games should be a good litmus test....


----------



## seifer0406

Big test against the Spurs tonight.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Excellent game!! Start to finish .....
Props again to JV who was a full-on beast tonight. Very aggressive grabbing those boards  Props going out to the rest of the crew as well .... Amir, DeMar, JJ, Lowry (better game for him than the last few) and the rest of the crew. NICE WIN !


----------



## Porn Player

GV hits the bench, we play our best basketball in weeks. 

Honestly, why does it seem so obvious to everybody but Casey on how best to coach this team?


----------



## ozzzymandius

Well JJ has earned that spot on the starting line and it was pretty obvious what happened. So hopefully Casey has taken serious notice and will adjust. We'll find out in a few days but this should be a no brainer.


----------



## RollWithEm

One game left before the extremely long all-star break for the Raptors... and it's a big one. Beating the Wizards would lock-up the season series for Toronto for tie-break purposes.


----------



## Porn Player

We got this.


----------



## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> We got this.







DeRozan certainly did.


----------



## ozzzymandius

I don't want to say it was a fluke shot ..... But it certainly wasn't as clean as it could have been, given he almost turned it over but he was just good enough to hit it. Same kinda shot he's made and missed 100 times before. So my take here is that we just simply got one in that could easily have been out. But in the end.... I'll take it ....


----------



## AllRim

This extended AllStar break sucks balls. 

In other news, apparently the Raptors are interested in the recently bought out Amare. Do not want.


----------



## seifer0406

AllRim said:


> This extended AllStar break sucks balls.
> 
> In other news, apparently the Raptors are interested in the recently bought out Amare. Do not want.


I wouldn't mind signing him to the vet minimum and have him take over Hansbrough spot in the rotation. I doubt he'll even consider the Raptors though if teams like Mavs and Spurs are interested in him.

I still think we should focus our sights on acquiring a serviceable small forward. While JJ is doing well right now I think his lack of an outside shot will hurt our spacing against good teams.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Apparently he's interested in Dallas ... but he still has lots of other options too .... 
I'm not expecting much movement from Masai this year. He's already ahead of plan and performance expectations. Why break the timeclock and the formula now??


----------



## AllRim

There are rumors that Ross may be available. Also not in a Ross deal we are interested in KG and West. Id definitely take either of those guys if they are cheap enough


----------



## R-Star

KG might be cheap. David West though? He's not a guy Indiana is just going to try to salary dump. It would take your first at the least.


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## AllRim

R-Star said:


> KG might be cheap. David West though? He's not a guy Indiana is just going to try to salary dump. It would take your first at the least.


I don't see ANYONE giving a 1st for him. He would be our 3rd/4th big.


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## Porn Player

AllRim said:


> I don't see ANYONE giving a 1st for him. He would be our 3rd/4th big.


David West?

David West would start. He would be our 1st big.


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## AllRim

Porn Player said:


> David West?
> 
> David West would start. He would be our 1st big.


I really haven't watched him this year tbh. I was just restating Toronto Media. 

Apparently writers are getting bored now and pumping out anything 

https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/stat ... 2117499906



> Rival execs who've talked to Raptors believe they may be willing to build a package around Terrence Ross & Jonas Valanciunas to land a star.
> 
> — Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) February 16, 2015


----------



## R-Star

AllRim said:


> I don't see ANYONE giving a 1st for him. He would be our 3rd/4th big.


David West would undoubtedly start. Anyone in Toronto media saying he would be 3rd or even worse, 4th big just proves how terrible Toronto media is. 

He is easily worth a first to a team like Toronto or any other playoff squad. He's not worth anything to a team in the tank race as he's getting long in the tooth.


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> He is easily worth a first to a team like Toronto or any other playoff squad. He's not worth anything to a team in the tank race as he's getting long in the tooth.


It wouldn't be a deal breaker but I would be more comfortable with the Raptors giving up a 1st rounder if West picks up his player option for next year. Even with West on board the Raptors would still be the underdogs against teams like the Hawks and the Cavs and arguably the Bulls depending on their health. If we're only getting a 30 game rental of West and still end up with a 2nd round exit I would rather spend our assets on someone else that can help us build towards the future.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> It wouldn't be a deal breaker but I would be more comfortable with the Raptors giving up a 1st rounder if West picks up his player option for next year. Even with West on board the Raptors would still be the underdogs against teams like the Hawks and the Cavs and arguably the Bulls depending on their health. If we're only getting a 30 game rental of West and still end up with a 2nd round exit I would rather spend our assets on someone else that can help us build towards the future.


Unless he hates playing for TO I can't see him giving up his last year. Hard to walk away from 12 mil when you're getting old. Unless he's sold on the idea that he has one more decent contract left in him. 

I disagree that the Raps would be underdogs with him though. He's about as reliable a vet you can get on the team. I'd rank them on par with any other team in the East. If they somehow packaged Ross for Chandler or Afflalo I'd go as far as to call them my favorites in the East.


----------



## Bogg

seifer0406 said:


> It wouldn't be a deal breaker but I would be more comfortable with the Raptors giving up a 1st rounder if West picks up his player option for next year. Even with West on board the Raptors would still be the underdogs against teams like the Hawks and the Cavs and arguably the Bulls depending on their health. If we're only getting a 30 game rental of West and still end up with a 2nd round exit I would rather spend our assets on someone else that can help us build towards the future.


Agreed with R-star, West picking up his option is almost a foregone conclusion on a playoff team. He's just simply not going to get that $12 million next year if he hits free agency, and at 35 (or so) there's no more making it up in the future. Put him in a starting spot on a division champ and he'll stick around for one more year.


----------



## Porn Player

The thought of adding David West and one of Nichola Batum/Aaron Afflalo is really interesting me. 

If Masai can maneuver that we only really give up Ross + a 1st round draft pick to bring in the above, we'd be right at the front of the East for the next two years.


----------



## seifer0406

Porn Player said:


> The thought of adding David West and one of Nichola Batum/Aaron Afflalo is really interesting me.
> 
> If Masai can maneuver that we only really give up Ross + a 1st round draft pick to bring in the above, we'd be right at the front of the East for the next two years.


I don't see the Blazers parting with Batum. Affalo would be great but I hope that Masai can get it done without giving up Ross. The Nuggets are a mess so I think our expiring contracts should be valuable in negotiations since we can potentially help them sort out their team.

If Javale Mcgee's health checks out I wouldn't be against bringing him in as part of the deal instead of giving up Ross.

Hayes/Fields/Hansbrough/1st for Affalo/Mcgee would be a good trade for both sides I think. While Mcgee is a bone head he does solve our lack of a rim protector.

Jonas
Amir
Affalo
DeRozan
Lowry

Patterson
Vasquez
Lou Williams
Mcgee
Ross

That's a solid 10 men rotation


----------



## Porn Player

And the dream is over.. 



> The Portland Trail Blazers have acquired Arron Afflalo in a trade with the Denver Nuggets.
> 
> The Nuggets will acquire Will Barton, Victor Claver, Thomas Robinson, a future lottery protected first rounder and a second rounder from the Blazers for Afflalo and Alonzo Gee.
> 
> The Blazers will send their own 2016 first rounder (lottery protected). If it's not conveted, it becomes protected for the lottery again in 2017 and then two future second round picks.
> 
> The Blazers have been searching for more depth on the wing.
> 
> Afflalo can become a free agent in the offseason.


----------



## seifer0406

I'm quite disappointed that we weren't able to turn our expiring contracts into something of value. Let's just hope that Terrence Ross can figure things out in the final 30 games.


----------



## ozzzymandius

And here I was all excited about the potential trades. 
And the Masai sticks with the existing team .... And then they pound the crap outta the eastern conference leaders!!! 

Wow !! Total beat down !!


----------



## BobStackhouse42

Team is an enigma


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## ozzzymandius

Tonight they needed an enigma.....


----------



## AllRim

seifer0406 said:


> I'm quite disappointed that we weren't able to turn our expiring contracts into something of value. Let's just hope that Terrence Ross can figure things out in the final 30 games.


Meh. I'm happy we didn't take on something. Better to after guys in FA. And I feel Ross has given up, hopefully he learns to accept the bench roll. At this point he isn't good enough to be a starter on a good team.


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## seifer0406

AllRim said:


> Meh. I'm happy we didn't take on something. Better to after guys in FA. And I feel Ross has given up, hopefully he learns to accept the bench roll. At this point he isn't good enough to be a starter on a good team.


Looking at what Utah got for Kanter I just feel like we could've gotten him with a similar package.

If Ross doesn't show life the rest of the year I would be surprised to see him back with the Raptors next year. With the way that he has played I don't even think he should be a rotation player much less a starter on a 50 win team.


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## ozzzymandius

Unbelievable meltdown!!
And as much as we've soured on Ross (with good reasons) ... I'm not all that impressed with Demar's performance since he's been back either. Call it what we will (rusty, getting his legs back etc...) but he's had more than enough games now and I'm seeing anything great. Especially with LouWill being so much more effective and efficient.


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## RollWithEm

ozzzymandius said:


> Unbelievable meltdown!!
> And as much as we've soured on Ross (with good reasons) ... I'm not all that impressed with Demar's performance since he's been back either. Call it what we will (rusty, getting his legs back etc...) but he's had more than enough games now and I'm seeing anything great. Especially with LouWill being so much more effective and efficient.


Losing to the Pelicans without Jrue, Brow, or Ryan Anderson is a rough loss.


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## ozzzymandius

You see ... last night's loss was hurtful... but acceptable as they were up against a very "big and tall" team. Dirk, Chandler, Ellis, Jefferson etc... even Aminu and Barea had some key contributions late in the game... So that was a well fought, gritty loss ... BUT that's also the type of game that illustrates just how hard it is to win and it makes blown games (Pelicans) that much harder to take... We just can't afford to lose games we should WIN flat out!! 

Stupid stupid stupid!!

-- good to see Rondo ride the pine though in the fourth!! HAHAHAA


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## Porn Player

The defence is porous. No rim protection at all during stretches.

I won't even mention Lou Williams..


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## ozzzymandius

Or Vasquez's ... "I can do it on my own" drives and misses so early in the shot clock before anyone can even get into position ... or the ill advised (and missed) 3's !!!


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## Porn Player

^ You're right. The continual ISO plays are head-scratching. 

As always, this comes back to the fact we have a coach, but we don't have a system.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Ohhhh Gawd ..... I can't even watch anymore .... it's awful


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## seifer0406

we suck


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## ozzzymandius

Simply speechless.


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## AllRim

Never should've traded Bargs


----------



## RollWithEm

...but on the bright side, the Raptors get to play the 76ers today!


----------



## ozzzymandius

A hollow win ... I feel like we just buggered children in a development league.


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## AllRim

ozzzymandius said:


> A hollow win ... I feel like we just buggered children in a development league.


D league Knicks say hi


----------



## ozzzymandius

^^ True enough... we got buggered and then we buggered back! "Sick" team ;-)

As for tonight's game though.... Men vs Men. Wicked game.
Man crush on LouWills (again) !! Totally amazing play tonight. 
Then there's JV's performance. Solid!


----------



## Porn Player

I'll take the loss tonight, we finally resembled a good team again.


----------



## Porn Player




----------



## seifer0406

Ross is starting tonight. Let's see if we can get a W.


----------



## ozzzymandius

So much for Ross's starting impact.
The wheels are slipping....


----------



## seifer0406

It wouldn't surprise me if we get bounced again in the first round. We have major holes that needs to be filled in the off season.


----------



## Porn Player

^ We're not where we need to be, that's for sure. 

The 1st Round will be very dependent on who we are matched up with.


----------



## seifer0406

Porn Player said:


> ^ We're not where we need to be, that's for sure.
> 
> The 1st Round will be very dependent on who we are matched up with.


Right now I can see us losing to everyone except for Milwaukee and Indiana. Not saying that we'll lose to them for sure but it wouldn't surprise me if we did.


----------



## Porn Player

We've lost 7 of our last 8.


----------



## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> We've lost 7 of our last 8.


That's why the Raps are in 4th now in the West. It's not like the Bulls have been killing it. Toronto and Washington are just out-losing their competition right now.


----------



## AllRim

ozzzymandius said:


> So much for Ross's starting impact.
> The wheels are slipping....


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## ozzzymandius

^^ Soooo that's the problem!!!! 
hahahaaaa


----------



## Porn Player

Oh wow, that's hilarious.


----------



## seifer0406

We should do a betting game on whether or not Ross will shoot a free throw in his next game. He hasn't been to the line in 5 straight games.


----------



## Jamel Irief

I was really hoping you guys would get your first 50 win season. Finishing 12-6 of course isn't out of reach especially in the lEast, but...


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## RollWithEm

Jamel Irief said:


> I was really hoping you guys would get your first 50 win season. Finishing 12-6 of course isn't out of reach especially in the lEast, but...


But the only team the Raptors have beaten in their last 10 was the 76ers.


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## AllRim

RollWithEm said:


> But the only team the Raptors have beaten in their last 10 was the 76ers.


Since the All Star game the Raps are the 30th best team in the NBA!!!!


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## Porn Player

AllRim said:


> Since the All Star game the Raps are the 30th best team in the NBA!!!!


It could be worse... 

Oh wait!


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## Porn Player

I actually think we beat the Heat today and then go on a streak. 

But I'm the eternal optimist.


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## seifer0406

I was reading the Raptors blog and I kind of agree with their assessment of the season. The rest of the season feels very meaningless at this point. We'll win some games and we'll lose some games and then we'll either lose in the first round or second round. The point of the season is to figure out what this team needs and I feel like they've already done that. I don't expect anything to change from now until the end of the playoffs.


----------



## Porn Player

We reached 40 wins off the back of a Lowry triple double. That is going to breath a lot of confidence into him for the run in. 

15 games left in the season. Can we get to 50? I honestly think we do.


----------



## Porn Player

Picked up another W against the T-Wolves. 

Are you guys interested if we make it to 50 wins? Or does it feel like all the wind has officially left our sails? 

Big game against Chicago tomorrow.


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## Junkyard Dog13

big game vs Chi we need the 3rd seed and Lowry is 50-50, Casey needs to play JV more he is getting more dominant in the low post our rebounding and low post is so much better when he is in the game, Patterson needs to just build up last nights game vs Minny take the player guarding him on the 3 pt line and beat him off the dribble get closer drive and get easier shots, both Vasq @ lou at times will force 3's we need to now get in a more half court mindset with the playoffs 3 weeks away.


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## ozzzymandius

I can't believe we only have 15 games left!!

I'm not sure we'll get 10 W's out of those games though. I think we've been exposed and are easily handled when DeMar and Lowry are contained. Our bench isn't delivering like they used to and without that 2nd punch to beat other benches we're hurting. 

As per JYD^^ I'd say you should talk to the coaching staff. Makes good sense all around on what's needed. I also think pulling JV in reaction to smaller faster lineups in the fourth is the wrong way to go. We should make them match to us and consistently go to him on offense.


----------



## shupioneers1

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> big game vs Chi we need the 3rd seed and Lowry is 50-50, Casey needs to play JV more he is getting more dominant in the low post our rebounding and low post is so much better when he is in the game, Patterson needs to just build up last nights game vs Minny take the player guarding him on the 3 pt line and beat him off the dribble get closer drive and get easier shots, both Vasq @ lou at times will force 3's we need to now get in a more half court mindset with the playoffs 3 weeks away.


I'd rather have the 4. Think we've got a better chance of beating Atlanta then Cleveland/Chicago should we get to the 2nd round.


----------



## Porn Player

Don't we automatically get the 3rd seed because we win our Division?


----------



## AllRim

Porn Player said:


> Don't we automatically get the 3rd seed because we win our Division?


No that only is a lock for 4th. Even then, if Washington finishes with a better record at the 5th seed, Washington will get Home Court in the 1st round.....


----------



## AllRim

1st round exit again anyone?


----------



## Porn Player

AllRim said:


> No that only is a lock for 4th. Even then, if Washington finishes with a better record at the 5th seed, Washington will get Home Court in the 1st round.....


Thanks. 

All of this is redundant. We're playing like garbage and we're getting thumped come Playoff time. 

Sigh.


----------



## Porn Player

By the way, I know he signed a new deal last year, but Casey needs to go. He has no basketball IQ.

He's a good man motivator and he has managed to hide his atrocious play calling behind the effort his teams have put forth. I can't stand it any longer.


----------



## ozzzymandius

I'm suddenly thinking of off season moves.... 
The crazy part is this team is still trying to find an identity that's not based on playing to the level of the team they're facing. The last two games (Pistons, Chicago) are perfect examples. I guess the only thing that's similar is the porous defense that plague us for at least half a game, every game!!

First round exit .... Again! We're just not there yet :-(


----------



## AllRim

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> big game vs Chi we *need the 3rd seed* and Lowry is 50-50, Casey needs to play JV more he is getting more dominant in the low post our rebounding and low post is so much better when he is in the game, Patterson needs to just build up last nights game vs Minny take the player guarding him on the 3 pt line and beat him off the dribble get closer drive and get easier shots, both Vasq @ lou at times will force 3's we need to now get in a more half court mindset with the playoffs 3 weeks away.


I stongly dissagree. 3rd seed 2nd round matchup would be vs the Cavs. 4th seed 2nd round would be vs ATL. No chance we beat the Cavs, if we somehow find our D we have a legit chance vs the Hawks


----------



## AllRim

In fact, ive actually been telling myself that the Raps are tanking for tthe 4 seed. Keeps some amount of hope left for me


----------



## Porn Player

Well, that was quite the performance. DeMar has been playing well of late. Jonas has quietly been beasting as well, he had 6 blocks last night. 

My main concern is the 3 and the 4. I don't care for either Ross or Amir at this point. They're so limited in what they can offer it makes us easy to run defensive schemes against, which in turn forces us to rely on stand out performances from our borderline All-stars. 

We'll see, we're trending in the right direction after a dismal couple of months at least.


----------



## seifer0406

It's nice that we got the win and all but our offense in crunch time is still butt ugly. We're running iso's without a dominating one on one player. Had that mid range jumper missed it's the Pistons game all over again.

I hate coaching changes and Casey has done an admirable job installing a defensive-minded team culture. While our defense has been mediocre of late I do believe that our guys are playing hard and the defensive schemes can work if we have the right mix of players. Offensively theres a lot of room for improvement and since we have little hope of acquiring an offensive superstar like Harden that can take any ordinary offense and make it work, we're going to need a better offense system if we want to take that next step in the league.


----------



## ozzzymandius

Taking care of business tonight!! 
I expect to see a Bruno sighting with 3 minutes left to play!!


----------



## ozzzymandius

And there's still lots of work for him to put in. But there's also lots of time for him to get it. Still looked good driving to the basket and handling the ball.

Please get rid of Fields, Steisma too .... and though we love him... might as well part with Hayes too .....


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

i was there at the 37 sec mark with us up by 1 lou forced up a bad 3 rather then give to demar to let him penetrate, long of board and ross just jacks it up rather then swing out around as we down by 1, we need a better quicker back up C, who stays on his feat and stops biting on pump fakes and leaves his feat, I think a lean guy like Macgee would be good, as for PG keep lou to be the combo G, Vasq is to slow on D to play PG, gets caught to much reaching in.

package fields, hayes @ Ross for a legit starting SF


----------



## RollWithEm

I might be in the minority, but even given all their struggles... I still think the Raptors can beat the Wizards and give the Hawks a nice run in round 2.


----------



## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> I might be in the minority, but even given all their struggles... I still think the Raptors can beat the Wizards and give the Hawks a nice run in round 2.


I think the Playoffs are a completely different beast and we will definitely see the Raptors at their best, rather than the level they are currently playing at. 

Valanciunas seems to have turned the corner somewhat over the past month, he's assertive on offense, he's protecting the rim better on defense and he has really become a vocal leader on that end too. 

I just want the Playoffs to arrive, so we know who we're playing and I can get in full Raptors mode.


----------



## ATLien

RollWithEm said:


> I might be in the minority, but even given all their struggles... I still think the Raptors can beat the Wizards and give the Hawks a nice run in round 2.


Raptors have played the Hawks as well as anyone has in the East. Do I think ATL can win? Sure, but it won't be an easy series.


----------



## seifer0406

RollWithEm said:


> I might be in the minority, but even given all their struggles... I still think the Raptors can beat the Wizards and give the Hawks a nice run in round 2.


I would be surprised if we beat the Wizards. I know we swept them in the season series but playoffs is really another story. With Kyle's back and Amir's ankle I think Wall and Gortat/Nene will just dominate the matchups.


----------



## Porn Player

We finally break the Charlotte curse.


----------



## AllRim

What a weird team to have a 5 year losing streak against


----------



## Porn Player

Lou Williams with the game winner last night. That Orlando team is a lot of fun to watch, they could be very nice in a few years with Oladipo, Gordon, Vucevic, Harris and Elfrid. 

It has taken us to 3rd in the seedings. I'm not sure how I feel about facing the Bucks.

Alas, a number of games left, and I am certain things will change again.


----------



## Porn Player

Another W against a Heat team that really needed to get it. 

We've tied our achievements from last year with 48 regular season wins (and last year was the best regular season in franchise history), with games against Boston and Charlotte coming up, we might hit the 50. 

One major concern, our ability to defend a drive from the perimeter is being exposed every night. They blow by Lowry like he isn't trying and Jonas is slightly too slow (despite usually reading the situation) to make it difficult for them.


----------



## ozzzymandius

That recent losing streak really took the wind out of our sails for a good month. 
But in response we're finally back to decent ball and I think maybe peaking at just the right time. Jonas has been showing some real signs of coming into his own, the team is using him more, Casey is keeping him on the floor in late game situations. So that's all good. And even Hansbrough has suddenly become a focus on both sides of the floor with energy, aggression and presence. TRoss is still a huge question mark though. I'm still waiting to see more from PatPat and JJ for sure though. I think they've been very quiet of late. 

All in all though I think we're peaking, winning and getting that swagger back just at the right time. Regardless of going in at three or four spot I think it's just better to have that winning and fighting mentality and mind set otherwise were toast no matter who we go up against. 

Ohh and DeMar needs to stop bouncing the ball of his foot again. Noticed that a few times in the last couple weeks. Thought he was over that?? hahahaaaa


----------



## Porn Player




----------



## ozzzymandius

Ohhhh so close!! No worries though. That win wouldn't have made or cost us our success in the first round which is far, far more important!!


----------



## Porn Player

Playoff thread will be up later today.


----------



## Porn Player

Just a quick season summary:

49 wins, a new franchise record. 
Finished 8th in efficiency differential in the regular season at +3.3 per 100 possessions (ahead of the Rockets, Bulls, Thunder etc). 
Atlantic Division Champions (back to back). 
4th seed in the Eastern Conference. 
1st time All Star, Kyle Lowry. 
20th pick in the 2015 draft.


----------



## c_dog

seifer0406 said:


> I wonder wheres @c_dog
> 
> I want to ask him whether he still thinks Lowry should've been paid 8 mil a year


busy year for me. got married in november. logging on to this forum just wasn't a priority.

dude had a nice start to the season but played played a 6mill a year player after the all star game. i would have admitted that i was wrong pre all-star game but damn... he really regressed after. let the all-star status get to his head or something.


----------

