# Noah looking for 70-75 million! (MERGED)



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Heard this on an update on 670 the score and on other basketball rumor sites.

Bulls apparently have offered 5 years 60 million, I think its a bit high for a player who had one good season but its not a bad deal if you can get it done quickly.

Noah is looking for 5 years 70-75 million! This on the other hand is a terrible deal for the Bulls, this reeks of Luol Deng part 2, where a decent player gets overpaid and becomes an un trade-able asset. 

Honestly I feel like 5 for 50-55 is a fair but I would not pay a penny more over 60 if the Bulls go that route. The idea of paying a rebounder 13+ million is a bad one.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

If he can continue being a top rebounder in the league, getting around 13 mil is fine. But like you said, only one good year. I'd be hesitant about signing him to something like that, but whats the other option? Trade his rights?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



R-Star said:


> If he can continue being a top rebounder in the league, getting around 13 mil is fine. But like you said, only one good year. I'd be hesitant about signing him to something like that, but whats the other option? Trade his rights?


The Bulls have options.

They can trade him but thats last ditch.
They can let him play out his contract.
They can re negotiate mid season or at the end of the season.
They can let him go into the open market because no one is going to offer him 70-75 million. 

I think Noah will accept a 60 million dollar deal or both parties will probably settle for 65. The Bulls have no problems with overpaying their players.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

I can see him staying for around 65 like you said. He's seen as a cornerstone of the young team, I can't see the Bulls trying to move him or him wanting to go elsewhere. The guys seems to love it in Chicago.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

This is exactly what I have predicted a couple hundred times : 

*Deng’s idiotic contract did set up a horrible precedent.
Brad Miller absence, made Noah stock jump over the roof.*

“Greedy or stupid people are always paying twice”.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

i cant see noah settling for less than 13 mil. a season, if deng can make 12 and noah plays a more important position .

the bulls have a habit of picking and choosing whom to overpay...at 13 mil or more its overpaying.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

Noah will have to settle for less, the Bulls would be idiots to pay Noah huge money when they arent even sure if he can stay healthy for a full season. He is not going to get paid what David Lee is getting paid, Lee is a better player. I think Noah better take the 60 million before the season starts because I doubt he will have a better season than his last and if he gets injured again you better believe that 60 million will go down to 50.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

If the new CBA were gonna be just like the old one, then we'll eventually need to pay this kind of money anyways.

However, the new CBA is seeking to bring salaries down. Hence, Noah doesn't have the leverage to demand this kind of deal.

IMO, 5-years, $60M is very fair and worth it. Good strong offer from the Bulls.

But, we aren't going to bid against ourselves.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> Noah will have to settle for less, the Bulls would be idiots to pay Noah huge money when they arent even sure if he can stay healthy for a full season. He is not going to get paid what David Lee is getting paid, Lee is a better player. I think Noah better take the 60 million before the season starts because I doubt he will have a better season than his last and if he gets injured again you better believe that 60 million will go down to 50.


I don't know if Lee is a better player... They are pretty much equivalant and on a chapionship team I would much rather have Noah.

If you look around the league you will notice that centers get big money. Noah is asking for market value. It's just that you would hope we would get a discount signing the extension now instead of after this year. Noah has to realize that playing this year without an extension is a big gamble and also costs him money for just this year alone. I say 5 years 60-65 mil would be a good deal for us.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

Noah will be getting somewhere between $60-70 mil. Paxson set Joakim's market when he signed Tyson Chandler to that 6 yr/$63 million contract, and Joakim is a better ball handler and passer than Chandler is and also proved himself two playoffs in a row.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

Good thinking Noah!

Before signing, please say something about your wide and strong shoulders (their load capacity, in terms of team's size - entire team, half, quater etc) and that you will take basketball very very very serious...not less than 13M per year ))))

P.S. Yea, almost forgot, it is extremely important that you should practice beyond normal hours and make sure that Pax will hear the sound of the ball...you can use a good sound system instead.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



caseyrh said:


> I don't know if Lee is a better player... They are pretty much equivalant and on a chapionship team I would much rather have Noah.


It depends on what kind of team you got, a championship caliber team that struggles with scoring will opt for Lee and an offensive minded team needed a rebounder/defender will opt for Noah. The point is whether you like it or not this is a scorers league, players who score points will get paid more than a guy like Noah. 



> If you look around the league you will notice that centers get big money. Noah is asking for market value. It's just that you would hope we would get a discount signing the extension now instead of after this year. Noah has to realize that playing this year without an extension is a big gamble and also costs him money for just this year alone. I say 5 years 60-65 mil would be a good deal for us.


Nobody really thinks Noah will get 70-75 million so I dont know what market value you are talking about, I think 50-60 is a fair offer. Chris Kaman probably has one of the fairest contracts in the NBA for a big man and hes a better center than Noah so I would probably try to offer him something similar, 5 years 54 million is what Kaman got. 

Either way like I said before, it will be a dumb move for the Bulls to pay 70 and it would be a dumb move for Noah to not take the 60 before the season starts, I think the Bulls have the leverage here.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> It depends on what kind of team you got, a championship caliber team that struggles with scoring will opt for Lee and an offensive minded team needed a rebounder/defender will opt for Noah. The point is whether you like it or not this is a scorers league, players who score points will get paid more than a guy like Noah.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im Not going to bother looking into the contracts of big men. But I think you will realize that Kaman is an exception to the rule. A borderline all star caliber 24 year old Center, is going to get much more than what Kaman got. It's not even worth looking up, but if you want to prove me wrong go ahead and do it for me.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



caseyrh said:


> Im Not going to bother looking into the contracts of big men. But I think you will realize that Kaman is an exception to the rule. A borderline all star caliber 24 year old Center, is going to get much more than what Kaman got. It's not even worth looking up, but if you want to prove me wrong go ahead and do it for me.


kaman wasn't an exception , he wasn't as good, he was coming off a 11.9 and 9.6 year in almost 33 min., if david lee got 13 per yr. i think noah will too


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



Da Grinch said:


> kaman wasn't an exception , he wasn't as good, he was coming off a 11.9 and 9.6 year in almost 33 min., if david lee got 13 per yr. i think noah will too


Chris Kaman
11.9ppg 9.6 rebs 77% ft 52% fg in the WEST

Joakim Noah
10.7 ppg 11 rebs 74% ft 50% fg in the EAST

How was Kaman NOT as good?

Kaman play's in the MUCH more tougher conference against some of the tougher 4's and 5's in the league.

Lee is a better player, so he gets paid more. 20 and 12 is significantly better than 10.7 and 11, Lee also went in a sign and trade so for Noah to be asking for 75 is a stretch. 

Yes I know Noah is a fine defender but hes not a top 10 defender so the idea that his "hustle" and defense puts him on equal footing as Lee and Kaman is a bit far fetched. 

Lee has a history of putting up fantastic numbers, Noah has had one good season... I know you guys love him but hes not worth 70 million.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> Chris Kaman
> 11.9ppg 9.6 rebs 77% ft 52% fg in the WEST
> 
> Joakim Noah
> ...


Kaman isn't really as good , at least not then , as even as those numbers are remember kaman played a 2.7 more minutes because noah got hurt and had him time limited ...on a per minute basis noah rebounded , blocked, assisted more , turned it over less and the scoring difference was in kaman's favor but it was a small difference ...at the same stage in their career noah really is the better player.

Lee just cant play defense in any way shape or fashion he was probably the league's worst defender last season, he is not a center in truth he is more a swing forward played far out of position because he can board, not because on either side of the ball he plays remotely like a post player.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



caseyrh said:


> Im Not going to bother looking into the contracts of big men. But I think you will realize that Kaman is an exception to the rule. A borderline all star caliber 24 year old Center, is going to get much more than what Kaman got. It's not even worth looking up, but if you want to prove me wrong go ahead and do it for me.


Andrew Bogut signed a 5 year 60 million dollar extension. Hes an absolutely fantastic Center when fully healthy. 

Tyson Chandler got 10.5 a year on potential alone and lived up to his contract the first 2 seasons in NO before getting Injured. 

Marcus Camby signed a 6 year 53 million dollar contract about 8 per season in 04 and all hes been is one of the best re bounders and defenders year in and year out. 

Al Jefferson signed a 5 year 65 million dollar deal in 07. 

Okur singed for 6 years 50 million while a totally different player from Noah I dont see how Noah would be 5-6 million dollars better. 

So what it comes down to is Noah is looking for Andrew Bynum money, when Bynum is fully healthy Noah is NO Bynum, not even close. 

One thing that kinda scares me is that all these guy's suffer from injuries, all of them.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> Chris Kaman
> 11.9ppg 9.6 rebs 77% ft 52% fg in the WEST
> 
> Joakim Noah
> ...


Alright... let's hear the 10 Centers you think defend better than Noah... I get the feeling you're vastly underestimating what he offers at that end.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

Some stupid Agent told Noah that he should ask for $75M, which is very close to the max. He is out of his mind.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



Dornado said:


> Alright... let's hear the 10 Centers you think defend better than Noah... I get the feeling you're vastly underestimating what he offers at that end.



Duncan he is a center
Perkins
Howard
Anderson Varejao
Andrew Bogut
Brendan Haywood when healthy
Horford when healthy
Bynum
Dalembert
Marcus Camby
Joakim Noah


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> Andrew Bogut signed a 5 year 60 million dollar extension. Hes an absolutely fantastic Center when fully healthy.
> 
> Tyson Chandler got 10.5 a year on potential alone and lived up to his contract the first 2 seasons in NO before getting Injured.
> 
> ...


I wont even waste my time and point out all of the other contracts for centers that are way more lucrative...

Congrats on finding the lowest paid centers you could. I hate when people put arguements out like this that are so blatantly one sided it is a joke. 

All of whom have huge question marks and only 2 could be considered as good or better than Noah.

Plus Noah is most certainly better than Bynum. And I don't have the desire to argue that further, but Bynum is garbage, Noah is good.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

That's pretty steep. I don't know if he's worth 75 mil, I mean yeah, he's a great hustle player and rebounder, but is he really exceptional at anything but that?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



> Im Not going to bother looking into the contracts of big men. *But I think you will realize that Kaman is an exception to the rule.* A borderline all star caliber 24 year old Center, is going to get much more than what Kaman got. It's not even worth looking up, but if you want to prove me wrong go ahead and do it for me.


I just proved that Kaman is not the only exception and I proved that other young good centers got paid what the Bulls are looking to pay Noah and you respond with some hissy fit reply. Dude dont ask for something if you are just going to dissmiss it after I bring facts. I expected more from someone who loves to cram Loul Deng stats down our throats. 



> Congrats on finding the lowest paid centers you could. I hate when people put arguements out like this that are so blatantly one sided it is a joke.


They are not that low paid dude.



> Plus Noah is most certainly better than Bynum. And I don't have the desire to argue that further, but Bynum is garbage, Noah is good.


If Bynum was not injured all the time you would never find ONE GM that would take Noah over Bynum.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

trade him for Melo

If the fool is gonna demand too much money you might as well trade him for a proven commodity in Melo and move Deng into a 6th man role with the team or have him play some 2 guard.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



Juggernaut said:


> trade him for Melo
> 
> If the fool is gonna demand too much money you might as well trade him for a proven commodity in Melo and move Deng into a 6th man role with the team or have him play some 2 guard.


Man Deng would be one expensive ass sixth man, but he would be a damn good sixth man.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> If Bynum was not injured all the time you would never find ONE GM that would take Noah over Bynum.



And if I was invisible, I would rob banks!


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> I just proved that Kaman is not the only exception and I proved that other young good centers got paid what the Bulls are looking to pay Noah and you respond with some hissy fit reply. Dude dont ask for something if you are just going to dissmiss it after I bring facts. I expected more from someone who loves to cram Loul Deng stats down our throats. .


Okay Here are facts:


Kevin Garnett 
$18,800,000
Erick Dampier 
$13,075,000
Anderson Varejao
$7,000,000
Tyson Chandler
$12,750,000
Brendan Haywood
$6,900,000
Kenyon Martin
$16,545,454
Nenê
$11,360,000
David Lee
$10,800,000
Andris Biedrins 
$9,000,000
Dan Gadzuric
$7,243,750
Yao Ming 
$17,686,100
Jeff Foster
$6,655,000
Chris Kaman
$11,300,000 
Pau Gasol 
$17,822,187
Andrew Bynum
$13,842,332
Zach Randolph
$17,333,333
Dirk Nowitzki 
$17,278,618
Carlos Boozer 
$14,400,000
Chris Bosh
$14,500,000
Andrew Bogut
$11,050,000
Troy Murphy 
$11,968,253
Emeka Okafor
$11,540,375
Amare Stoudemire 
$16,800,000
Eddy Curry 
$11,276,863
Nick Collison 
$6,750,000 
Dwight Howard
$16,509,600
Elton Brand 
$15,959,099
LaMarcus Aldridge
$10,700,000
Marcus Camby
$8,453,250
Joel Przybilla
$7,405,300
Samuel Dalembert 
$12,200,000
Tim Duncan
$18,700,000
Andrea Bargnani 
$8,000,000
Al Jefferson
$13,000,000
Mehmet Okur 
$9,450,000

Avg salary of these 35 big men: *12.4 mil*



> If Bynum was not injured all the time you would never find ONE GM that would take Noah over Bynum


I love how you present your completeley unfounded opinion like it is a fact. Dude a great coach (Phil Jackson) rareley plays him in the last 5 minutes or so of a game if it is close. Lets not pretend this dude is a stud. He hasnt even factored in to either of their championships, so its not like the lakers cant win without him.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*

If I'm the Bulls I wouldn't go higher than 5/60. The pressure is on Noah to get a deal before the new CBA.

If Noah is serious about winning he would stay with the Bulls for 5/60. If he hits the market the most he'll make is 5/65 and who knows what kind of team he'll end up playing for. The reward just isn't worth the risk imo.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



caseyrh said:


> Okay Here are facts:
> 
> 
> Kevin Garnett
> ...


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



> You said Centers, half the guys on this list are PF's so obviously the numbers are skewed. I averaged out the avg salary of the *CENTERS * including Tim Duncan who is a center listed in here and it averages to around 10.9 mill - 11, so dont sell 12.4 dude.


Please list the players you included in your average. I'm curious as to who you chose and the quality of C that makes 11 mil.






> He also did not play Shaq in alot of close games, so what Shaq is overrated? lol.


Flawed logic. Shaq couldn't shoot ft's. They played hack a shaq. If the Lakers were up Phil would sometimes pull him to avoid hack a shaq in the final minute or 2. Let's be straight here. 



> It was mentioned many times during the 07-08 finals how the Lakers really missed Andrew Bynum against the Celtics.


oh. it was mentioned. and?


> LOL OK, never mind that he was the youngest player to ever set foot in an NBA court.
> 
> Forget that he averaged 13ppg 10 rebounds 2 blks and shot 63% as a 20 year old.
> 
> ...


who cares? and I don't agree.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



caseyrh said:


> Please list the players you included in your average. I'm curious as to who you chose and the quality of C that makes 11 mil.


Erick Dampier
Varejao 
Tyson Chandler
Haywood
Nene
David Lee
Biedrins
Dan Gadzuric
Yao
Jeff Foster
Kaman
Bynum
Bogut
Emeka
Curry
Howard
camby
Dalembert
Duncan
Bargnani
Al Jefferson
Okur

Average 11.17 million using the salaries you posted.



> Flawed logic. Shaq couldn't shoot ft's. They played hack a shaq. If the Lakers were up Phil would sometimes pull him to avoid hack a shaq in the final minute or 2. Let's be straight here.


So when Phil takes out a non FT shooter like Bynum its a knock on Bynum but taking out Shaq is a whole different thing? 



> oh. it was mentioned. and?


So the opinions of expert analyst should not be taken into consideration but yours should?



> who cares? and I don't agree.


If you were a GM and you had the choice to have either a fully healthy Noah or a fully healthy Bynum who would you take?


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> Erick Dampier
> Varejao
> Tyson Chandler
> Haywood
> ...


So do you get it now??????



> So when Phil takes out a non FT shooter like Bynum its a knock on Bynum but taking out Shaq is a whole different thing?


How is Bynum a non ft shooter???
he shot 74% last year. 

I hate arguing with people who just blatantly misinform in the hopes of nobody noticing. Be honest with your arguements or don't bother. It's like I have to fact check everything you say.





> So the opinions of expert analyst should not be taken into consideration but yours should?


First of all if my memory is correct you did not quote anyone, especcially not an expert analyst. Second, yeah i wouldn't let (unnamed) "expert analyst" trump my personal opinion unless the opinion was supported with evidence that I agreed with. 



> If you were a GM and you had the choice to have either a fully healthy Noah or a fully healthy Bynum who would you take[quote/]
> 
> Did i really need to answer this question?
> 
> Noah. He is a much better defender. A much better rebounder. and an equal offensive player. Bynum is a terrible passer, maybe a slightly better post player. But basically he gets almost all of his points because he plays on a team with great passing and multiple playmakers who set him up for easy buckets constantly. Bynum is the king of easy buckets. I live in LA I watch him play all the time, and I know he is garbage. Thats all i will say on this one.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



caseyrh said:


> So do you get it now?????


If the point is that Noah should make 10-11 million then we agree, I never said he should not get paid that much. 



> How is Bynum a non ft shooter???
> he shot 74% last year.


Hes a career 69% shooter, hes not freaking JJ Reddick either. If you are talking about Bynum's lack of minutes in this years finals his knee was not even close to being 100%. He struggled because of the tear in his knee he got in the Portland series. 



> First of all if my memory is correct you did not quote anyone, especcially not an expert analyst. Second, yeah i wouldn't let (unnamed) "expert analyst" trump my personal opinion unless the opinion was supported with evidence that I agreed with.


“They miss him,” Boston coach Doc Rivers said. “I mean, he has great size and length, and we attacked the paint yesterday, and Andrew wasn’t there. So I mean, obviously when he’s not on the floor, there’s a big difference.”

“Without Bynum in Game 4, the Lakers were just another scrambling NBA team unable to withstand home-court pressure and aggressive drives to the basket… We’re already getting a glimpse of what NBA life would be like without Bynum. He said his knee swelled after Game 3 and had not recovered sufficiently to allow him to compete at a high level in Game 4.” LA Times

Those are from just this year alone, his defense was sorely missed in 08, I dont have the energy to look for 2008 articles on specific quotes. 



> If you were a GM and you had the choice to have either a fully healthy Noah or a fully healthy Bynum who would you take[quote/]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> If the point is that Noah should make 10-11 million then we agree, I never said he should not get paid that much.


The point is that list is chalk full of centers that are worse than Noah. Some of them are just flat out terrible. But most are just worse than him.



> Hes a career 69% shooter, hes not freaking JJ Reddick either. If you are talking about Bynum's lack of minutes in this years finals his knee was not even close to being 100%. He struggled because of the tear in his knee he got in the Portland series.


Point is Bynum doesn't sit because of ft shooting...



> “They miss him,” Boston coach Doc Rivers said. “I mean, he has great size and length, and we attacked the paint yesterday, and Andrew wasn’t there. So I mean, obviously when he’s not on the floor, there’s a big difference.”
> 
> “Without Bynum in Game 4, the Lakers were just another scrambling NBA team unable to withstand home-court pressure and aggressive drives to the basket… We’re already getting a glimpse of what NBA life would be like without Bynum. He said his knee swelled after Game 3 and had not recovered sufficiently to allow him to compete at a high level in Game 4.” LA Times
> 
> Those are from just this year alone, his defense was sorely missed in 08, I dont have the energy to look for 2008 articles on specific quotes.


Honestly pointing to this stuff is really meaningless to me.




> No hes not, Noah is a better help defender but Bynum has the much better post presence.


Noah is a much better defender. If you are firm on the opposite view there is really no point in discussing it...



> They are not equal offensive players, you want to talk about the king of easy Buckets the only reason Joakim Noah even came close to averaging 14 ppg against the Cav's is because NOBODY guarded him.
> 
> Bynum at his age is light years ahead of Noah on offense.


Both get easy buckets. bynum gets more opportunities for easy buckets though. Bynum is also a terrible passer and Noah is a good one. You act as if the lakers throw it into Bynum and he scores on post ups. Which rareley happens. At least no more than Noah dribble driving from the high post.


> I dont get the Bynum hate, Garbage?! Really? He is by far their best post defender and you call him garbage?


not true.


> Its looking clearer and clearer that Andrew Bynum is to you what Loul Deng is to BabyBullz.


yawn.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



TwinkieTowers said:


> Noah will be getting somewhere between $60-70 mil. Paxson set Joakim's market when he signed Tyson Chandler to that 6 yr/$63 million contract, and Joakim is a better ball handler and passer than Chandler is and also proved himself two playoffs in a row.


Not really, though, b/c of the new CBA about to go through.

Noah and the Bulls have 2 more summers where they could extend his contract. By next summer, there is [ideally] a new CBA in place.

That changes everything and there's not really any comparison to the Chandler/Dalembert type of deals. (Although I bet the farm Noah's agent is arguing otherwise)


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Noah looking for 70-75 million!*



thebizkit69u said:


> Chris Kaman
> 11.9ppg 9.6 rebs 77% ft 52% fg in the WEST
> 
> Joakim Noah
> ...


Nah, Kaman isn't as good as Noah, at least IMO.

The West-East thing is pretty overrated, for starters.

Second, how many winning teams has Kaman played for? You can easily attribute some of his stats to playing on a bad team (much like Brook Lopez). It's alot easier to score points when your team is down 10+ points all the time.

Kaman is a OK center, don't get me wrong. He just strikes me as someone who isn't very cerebral. 

He also has a very poor assist/turnover ratio (roughly 1 assist per 2 turnovers for his career), which is a red flag.

Noah on the other hand is a terrific passer for a big man. That is an underrated quality that helps separate the two.

If Kaman were to suddenly play for a good playoff team, I would estimate him being a 12-14 ppg, 8 rebound type of player with average D. 

Noah would continue churning out the 12 & 12 type numbers when healthy, even on a contender. 

One man's opinion.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

*Noah looking for 70 mil*

I like Noah and all bu tis he looking for too much. Andray Blatche just signed for 5 years 35 mil.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Noah looking for 70 mil*

How many years?
If its 6 years plus. I dont think its ridculous. Remember centres get payed more on average. And there are some huge contracts out there. See Dalembert Nene Dampier(previously) Biedrins. Noah is better than all them.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70 mil*

I posted a similar thread so lets merge them 

http://www.basketballforum.com/chicago-bulls/446682-noah-looking-70-75-million.html


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70 mil*

There is no rush, I say wait it out. One good season should not make a contract, who knows if Noah is legit or the second coming of Jamaal Magloire circa 2003.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Noah looking for 70 mil*



hroz said:


> How many years?
> If its 6 years plus. I dont think its ridculous. Remember centres get payed more on average. And there are some huge contracts out there. See Dalembert Nene Dampier(previously) Biedrins. Noah is better than all them.


It's 5 years. If it's 70 over 6 it would've been done by now.

I doubt any team out there will give Noah that sort of money. If the Bulls just wait it out they should be able to get noah for 5 year 60 mil or less.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Its always interesting to watch when a good player comes off his rookie deal, when the player wants a contract that would pay him what most of the fans would say is in step with his projected production...the fans usually balks at his salary demands...


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> Its always interesting to watch when a good player comes off his rookie deal, when the player wants a contract that would pay him what most of the fans would say is in step with his projected production...the fans usually balks at his salary demands...


Not really, I don't have a problem with Durant or Brandon Roy getting the max. Noah getting close to that is overpaying imo. The guy is projected to be a double double guy that hustles and defends, just not too many of those players have gotten 13-14 mil a year in the past.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> Not really, I don't have a problem with Durant or Brandon Roy getting the max. Noah getting close to that is overpaying imo. The guy is projected to be a double double guy that hustles and defends, just not too many of those players have gotten 13-14 mil a year in the past.


giving durant the max is a bargain, and every team no matter how cash strapped they are they would do it...if there weren't a limit Roy and durant would get more than they are recieving and every1 knows it...but if there were no limit , and durant tried to get what he was worth , there would be a backlash of sorts.

noah on the other hand isn't a bargain at 12-14 mil, but its probably the going rate for what he does, his age , relative potential and the position he plays...to some teams he would be worth it and to some he wouldn't be.

my point is about the almost automatic downplaying of his abilities when *he* puts a value on it


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> noah on the other hand isn't a bargain at 12-14 mil, but its probably the going rate for what he does, his age , relative potential and the position he plays...to some teams he would be worth it and to some he wouldn't be.
> 
> my point is about the almost automatic downplaying of his abilities when *he* puts a value on it


14 mil a year is not the going rate for a guy that does what Noah does. Even Andrew Bogut only got 5/60 and that was coming off a season where he put up 14/10.

I understand what you're saying but I disagree it's the case with Noah. There aren't teams lining up to pay Noah 14 mil a year just like there weren't teams lining up to pay Rashard Lewis 20 mil a year. When people were going bonkers after they saw the Lewis deal they weren't "downplaying" his abilities. The guy was overpaid and Noah would be the same way if he got 70-75 over 5.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> 14 mil a year is not the going rate for a guy that does what Noah does. Even Andrew Bogut only got 5/60 and that was coming off a season where he put up 14/10.
> 
> I understand what you're saying but I disagree it's the case with Noah. There aren't teams lining up to pay Noah 14 mil a year just like there weren't teams lining up to pay Rashard Lewis 20 mil a year. When people were going bonkers after they saw the Lewis deal they weren't "downplaying" his abilities. The guy was overpaid and Noah would be the same way if he got 70-75 over 5.


the bulls gave ben wallace a 4 yr 60 mil deal basically doing what noah does ...they also are giving deng 80+ mil for 6 years , compared to those 2 noah for 75 mil/5 yrs. is very reasonable.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> the bulls gave ben wallace a 4 yr 60 mil deal basically doing what noah does ...they also are giving deng 80+ mil for 6 years , compared to those 2 noah for 75 mil/5 yrs. is very reasonable.


How did that work out?

One was supposed to be the best rebounder and defender in the NBA and the other became a non improving average player with an untrade-able contract.

Wallace was grossly overpaid, everyone knew it but Reinsdorf wanted Wallace and he overpaid for him. The Wallace signing was sooooo bad. 

Noah at 15 a year is disgusting, I cant IMAGINE the Bulls paying him this much a year.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> the bulls gave ben wallace a 4 yr 60 mil deal basically doing what noah does ...they also are giving deng 80+ mil for 6 years , compared to those 2 noah for 75 mil/5 yrs. is very reasonable.


So it's reasonable that the Bulls can make another mistake with Noah?

Listen, I'm not saying that the Bulls wouldn't give Noah that sort of money. It would be a mistake because he's not worth it. This discussion started because you claimed that fans undervalue players come contract time and I'm saying that isn't true. You listing guys that got overpaid isn't exactly proving your point. Were fans undervaluing Eddy Curry when the Knicks signed him to that contract? Did fans undervalue Ben Wallace when the Bulls signed him? Did fans undervalue Rashard Lewis when he got the max?

No. You're proving my point, not yours.


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## easy (Mar 28, 2005)

I think us fans shouldn't care a lot about what the players salary is now. Its not like the Bulls are a rebuilding team and they try to save money. Management build a good team for this year and if no trade for Carmelo is happening, they should try to keep the team together and show confidence in them no matter what. Noah, Rose, Deng and now Boozer are the core and they are the players that have to be together so they build continuity. So management should pay what its needed to keep them together. 

What I believe though for Noah's situation is, they should wait and see how this season develops. They still need to know if the team plays well together. Everything up to now shows that they will be playing well together. Everybody has been saying all the right things but still they need to perform on the court. If though both management and Noah want a deal now they atleast need to wait till the end of preseason to decide. Atleast be then we all gonna have a better look on what the team can do and the offer can be better and fairer for both sides.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> How did that work out?
> 
> One was supposed to be the best rebounder and defender in the NBA and the other became a non improving average player with an untrade-able contract.
> 
> ...


could u imagine wallace at 15?

if not i wouldn't be so quick to discount it....i think the bulls wait and if noah stays healthy and shows even the slightest imprvement i think he gets it next summer...i doubt they let him get test the waters.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> could u imagine wallace at 15?
> 
> if not i wouldn't be so quick to discount it....i think the bulls wait and if noah stays healthy and shows even the slightest imprvement i think he gets it next summer...i doubt they let him get test the waters.


If Noah actually tests the waters next summer chances are he won't get anything close to 15 mil a year because of the new CBA. Both sides know that and that's to Bulls' advantage. If Bulls give Noah 14 mil a year they're really bidding against themselves. It's not like they are Cleveland or Toronto begging to keep their franchise player from going to a better situation. The Bulls have a great foundation in Chicago and should be able to get at least market value for Noah, which is much less than 14 mil a year. Name me one team out there that would give Noah that sort of money next summer when people expect salaries to drop.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Even if Noah does stay healthy I'm not giving him 15 million a year, the Bulls have the upper hand here. New CBA, a better team around him that will shoot better limiting some offensive rebound's and a legit offensive PF who will limit the need for Noah to score, so unless Noah becomes a 20ppg player he is not going to get 15 million.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> If Noah actually tests the waters next summer chances are he won't get anything close to 15 mil a year because of the new CBA. Both sides know that and that's to Bulls' advantage. If Bulls give Noah 14 mil a year they're really bidding against themselves. It's not like they are Cleveland or Toronto begging to keep their franchise player from going to a better situation. The Bulls have a great foundation in Chicago and should be able to get at least market value for Noah, which is much less than 14 mil a year. Name me one team out there that would give Noah that sort of money next summer when people expect salaries to drop.



nobody knows what going to happen with the new cba , there may not even be one sometimes both sides agree to extend the current one a year , as bad as the nba wants some changes, they pretty much did this to themselves, everytime they make a change the players counter it, they started capping rookie salaries , and the players came in earlier and earlier , they took away HS entrants and now the players are colluding to form their own teams , they want to take that away now , but thats gonna be near impossible due to the AAU circuit predates the nba by several years and most of these players know each other years before they are nba players....by next year the economy should be better and i think the owners dont want to go lockout seeing how bad hockey was hurt by a lockout.

in the end top players are always gonna get theirs(for instance its widely assumed next year's fa crop will work under the old agreement as in past cba's) , and the owner's idea of shortening deals got them in the trouble they are in, killing the nba's middle class is just gonna give europe help in snagging nba talent, they are trying to save themselves from problems they created .

as for noah , he is a center which are paid on avg. more than the other positions , also he seems fine with waiting , you'll find that a guy like bogut signed for less but he signed early ...as soon as he could , so the bucks got a bit of a discount...that has to weighed against what noah gets and when he gets it.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> nobody knows what going to happen with the new cba , there may not even be one sometimes both sides agree to extend the current one a year , as bad as the nba wants some changes, they pretty much did this to themselves, everytime they make a change the players counter it, they started capping rookie salaries , and the players came in earlier and earlier , they took away HS entrants and now the players are colluding to form their own teams , they want to take that away now , but thats gonna be near impossible due to the AAU circuit predates the nba by several years and most of these players know each other years before they are nba players....by next year the economy should be better and i think the owners dont want to go lockout seeing how bad hockey was hurt by a lockout.


It doesn't matter what actually ends up happening. The fact is nobody knows at this point thus it creates the need for players to acquire an extension if possible. That's why Melo is pushing for an extension and that's why Richard Jefferson opted out. Players do not like to take risks especially in Noah's case where the Bulls are likely willing to pay him 5/60 mil. I think he will eventually come to his senses that the likelihood of him getting more money isn't worth holding out. 



> as for noah , he is a center which are paid on avg. more than the other positions , also he seems fine with waiting , you'll find that a guy like bogut signed for less but he signed early ...as soon as he could , so the bucks got a bit of a discount...that has to weighed against what noah gets and when he gets it.


.

He is already paid more. For 12 mil a year you expect a perennial allstar caliber player at any other position. Noah as good as he is is still a role player. He will make a few allstar games but don't expect to see him there year after year.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> the bulls gave ben wallace a 4 yr 60 mil deal basically doing what noah does ...they also are giving deng 80+ mil for 6 years , compared to those 2 noah for 75 mil/5 yrs. is very reasonable.


Apples to oranges.

Unrestricted free agents on the open market demand higher contracts b/c teams can get into bidding wars, which ups their dollar value. Plus in Wallace's case, we thought we were getting a double whammy by weakening a division rival.

Noah isn't even a free agent yet. There is no way the Bulls should budge. Noah can choose between the trade off of low-risk security vs. higher-risk higher money.

Next summer as a restricted FA, he has more leverage and the Bulls would need to cave a bit more.

The summer after that as unrestricted FA, Noah has all the leverage and the Bulls would need to make a very competitive offer to keep him.

It's way too early to say the Bulls should pay him 5 years, $70M.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> If Noah actually tests the waters next summer chances are he won't get anything close to 15 mil a year because of the new CBA. Both sides know that and that's to Bulls' advantage. If Bulls give Noah 14 mil a year they're really bidding against themselves. It's not like they are Cleveland or Toronto begging to keep their franchise player from going to a better situation. The Bulls have a great foundation in Chicago and should be able to get at least market value for Noah, which is much less than 14 mil a year. Name me one team out there that would give Noah that sort of money next summer when people expect salaries to drop.


+Infinity


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> It doesn't matter what actually ends up happening. The fact is nobody knows at this point thus it creates the need for players to acquire an extension if possible. That's why Melo is pushing for an extension and that's why Richard Jefferson opted out. Players do not like to take risks especially in Noah's case where the Bulls are likely willing to pay him 5/60 mil. I think he will eventually come to his senses that the likelihood of him getting more money isn't worth holding out.


melo has had a 3 year 65 mil. offer on the table from denver for months...he basically decided to press the nuggets into putting him to another situation if possible , trying have his cake and eat it too.

.


> He is already paid more. For 12 mil a year you expect a perennial allstar caliber player at any other position. Noah as good as he is is still a role player. He will make a few allstar games but don't expect to see him there year after year.


there are plenty of players in noah's relative level as far pretty good role player trying to be a star role player , from marcus camby , okafor, chandler , dalmbert , some make it like ben wallace and camby to rebounding champs who are defensive players of the year and some dont make it to that level of a star level impact as a role player , same as with scorers , its a gamble for the front office as to try to get the ones who pan out and not invest too heavily in the ones that dont...when they dont pan out because they dont improve or/and are injured like for instance deng , or just at that stage in the career weren't worth the money like wallace.

a role playing starting center can easily make 10+ mil. a year , and higher , not so much for the other positions , it happens but is far rarer


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> For 12 mil a year you expect a perennial allstar caliber player at any other position. Noah as good as he is is still a role player. He will make a few allstar games but don't expect to see him there year after year.


This is just simply not true... It probably demonstrates the major flaw in your argument. Any perennial all-star at any position makes well over 12 mil in the open market. Really perennial all-stars get max deals. If we all believed Noah would make "a few allstar games" over this contract then I don't think anyone would have any problem giving our 24 year old center a max deal.

I know it sounds crazy giving guys this much money but you have to look around the league and look at what other players make. I think too often when fans talk about resigning a player they expect a tremendous bargain. And then to defend their points they point to the extreme minority of players that are underpaid. But it doesn't work like that. You need to look at the whole picture and realize what _everyone_ is getting.

Then you also need to weigh the downside of potential overpayment. For example, if we pay Noah 14 mil a year, but over the life of his contract he only performs like a player that should make 12 mil a year, how much does that really hurt us? How much does the extra 2 mil to our above average starting center negatively impact us? 

Personally at this stage of our franchise I don't mind overpaying our best players by a couple mil a year. The contracts that kill you are the guys you pay a lot of money to and they don't contribute. We don't have anyone like that. If we keep this team together long-term we might overpay these 3 players by a total of 6 mil a year: Deng, Noah, and Gibson. A resigned Rose at the max will be a bargain... So what do we care if we are spending 6 mil more than we should?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I would be surprised if Noah even makes 1 allstar. Lopez and Howard will be damn good for a long time, David Lee is gone so I see an opening but if Bogut continues his excellent play from last season and Horford continues to improve I dont see Noah in the ASG. 



> The contracts that kill you are the guys you pay a lot of money to and they don't contribute.


True but having un trade-able contracts on the team hurts, example Deng.

Noah is not worth 15 million, period. He will not get that on the open market so why the hell over pay him, especially when his role has in a way been knocked back a notch with the arrival of Boozer.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> This is just simply not true... It probably demonstrates the major flaw in your argument. Any perennial all-star at any position makes well over 12 mil in the open market. Really perennial all-stars get max deals. If we all believed Noah would make "a few allstar games" over this contract then I don't think anyone would have any problem giving our 24 year old center a max deal.


Perhaps I did exaggerate in the effectiveness of a player with that sort of contract but the fact remains that if Noah played any other position the same way he plays center he would not receive anything close to 12 mil a year. Add to that the purposed figure of the OP is 15 mil per which is quite close to the max it further shows how overpaid Noah would be if the Bulls give him that sort of money.



> I know it sounds crazy giving guys this much money but you have to look around the league and look at what other players make. I think too often when fans talk about resigning a player they expect a tremendous bargain. And then to defend their points they point to the extreme minority of players that are underpaid. But it doesn't work like that. You need to look at the whole picture and realize what everyone is getting.


Bogut got 5/60, Al Jefferson who was a 20/10 21 yr old when he signed isn't making 15 mil a year, Al Horford likely wouldn't get that sort of money either.

Also you really have to take into account your competition when it comes to offering contracts. The fact is no other team would offer Noah that sort of money at least in my opinion. Why would the Bulls bid against themselves?


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

First post with sweet new avatar... 


thebizkit69u said:


> I would be surprised if Noah even makes 1 allstar.


I'm not expecting it, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him make one. Who knows he could even find that ben wallace niche, and make a bunch.


> True but having un trade-able contracts on the team hurts, example Deng.


No-one has ever explained to me how his contract has hurt us so much... We just went into the biggest off-season of all time with about 30 mil to spend. so it's not like he was keeping us from signing people.

Plus we traded hinrichs contract which was worse, so i'm not sure why we believe Deng's is untradeable. Is it possible that we don't want to trade Deng? or that maybe we want too much in return. I am guessing that if we wanted to give him away we could.


> Noah is not worth 15 million, period. He will not get that on the open market so why the hell over pay him, especially when his role has in a way been knocked back a notch with the arrival of Boozer.


I don't want to overpay him either. But I am discussing your opinions. If you believe 14 mil is overpayment, and that he should actually get paid 12 mil. How much is that additional 2 mil hurting us? thats my point. We could go on and on about what his actual value is or isn't. Personally 5 years 65 mil seems about right to me. So I won't throw a fit over 5 yrs 70 mil, it just doesn't make a big difference in the long run. the important thing is to make sure he is a bull for the next 5 years.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> melo has had a 3 year 65 mil. offer on the table from denver for months...he basically decided to press the nuggets into putting him to another situation if possible , trying have his cake and eat it too.


Melo is good enough that he can do that. Noah on the other hand cannot.



> there are plenty of players in noah's relative level as far pretty good role player trying to be a star role player , from marcus camby , okafor, chandler , dalmbert , some make it like ben wallace and camby to rebounding champs who are defensive players of the year and some dont make it to that level of a star level impact as a role player , same as with scorers , its a gamble for the front office as to try to get the ones who pan out and not invest too heavily in the ones that dont...when they dont pan out because they dont improve or/and are injured like for instance deng , or just at that stage in the career weren't worth the money like wallace.
> 
> a role playing starting center can easily make 10+ mil. a year , and higher , not so much for the other positions , it happens but is far rarer


See my previous post. The Bulls have no problem giving Noah 10+ mil a year, but 14-15 mil is excessive for a guy like him.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> Perhaps I did exaggerate in the effectiveness of a player with that sort of contract but the fact remains that if Noah played any other position the same way he plays center he would not receive anything close to 12 mil a year.


Again this is an exageration and i don't believe it to be true. I think it is fair to say that Noah is somewhere in the 5th to 10th best center range. What do you think say the 7th highest paid player at each position makes? I don't feel like looking it up but I would be shocked it it wasn't on average at least 12 mil.




> Bogut got 5/60, Al Jefferson who was a 20/10 21 yr old when he signed isn't making 15 mil a year, Al Horford likely wouldn't get that sort of money either.


again you are cherry picking bargain deals. What if I made my arguement based on what eddy curry makes? It is almost as bad to do it the other way. In fact a couple pages earlier I listed virtually all the relevant big man contracts.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Actually just wanted to point this out.

I think the most relevant contract I can find is for Andrew Bynum.

I think you could easily make the case that Noah is at least Bynum's equal. But without getting in to that arguement can we at least agree that they are comparable?

I never hear people making a big deal over Bynums contract being too big. Nor does anyone say it is a discount.

Bynum got a 4 year 58 mil extension. That is 14.5 mil per year.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> Melo is good enough that he can do that. Noah on the other hand cannot.
> 
> 
> 
> See my previous post. The Bulls have no problem giving Noah 10+ mil a year, but 14-15 mil is excessive for a guy like him.


i would have said the same thing about deng and wallace ...time tells all...not saying its definite but if noah improves and stays healthy, i could see it.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> I'm not expecting it, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him make one. Who knows he could even find that ben wallace niche, and make a bunch.


So if you are not really expecting a yearly allstar player why are you then ok with him getting paid like one?



> No-one has ever explained to me how his contract has hurt us so much... We just went into the biggest off-season of all time with about 30 mil to spend. so it's not like he was keeping us from signing people.


The Bulls have tried to trade Deng in the past and they just cant. Heck if the Bulls even wanted to get a worse player in return they cant because nobody wants his contract. When you have a player who you just CANT trade I see that as hurting us. 



> *Plus we traded hinrichs contract which was worse, *so i'm not sure why we believe Deng's is untradeable. Is it possible that we don't want to trade Deng? or that maybe we want too much in return. I am guessing that if we wanted to give him away we could.


How is trading Kirk Hinrich's de-escalating contract with 1 year left,worth about 17 million worse than Deng's *escalating *contract worth 51 million with 3 years left?



> I don't want to overpay him either. But I am discussing your opinions. If you believe 14 mil is overpayment, and that he should actually get paid 12 mil. How much is that additional 2 mil hurting us? thats my point. We could go on and on about what his actual value is or isn't. Personally 5 years 65 mil seems about right to me. So I won't throw a fit over 5 yrs 70 mil, it just doesn't make a big difference in the long run. the important thing is to make sure he is a bull for the next 5 years.


In a salary cap structured league 2 million does matter, in a trade especially so yeah its pretty important.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> again you are cherry picking bargain deals. What if I made my arguement based on what eddy curry makes? It is almost as bad to do it the other way. In fact a couple pages earlier I listed virtually all the relevant big man contracts.
> Also you really have to take into account your competition when it comes to offering contracts. The fact is no other team would offer Noah that sort of money at least in my opinion. Why would the Bulls bid against themselves?


Bogut and Al Jefferson are hardly considered bargain deals. They are considered as fair deals. Da Grinch listed guys like Ben Wallace and Luol Deng as examples and those were guys that were considered overpaid. Again, I don't expect Al Horford to get 15 mil a year and I don't expect Brook Lopez to get that sort of money right off his rookie contract. A lot of people consider both of those players superior to Noah along with Bogut and Al Jefferson.



> Actually just wanted to point this out.
> 
> I think the most relevant contract I can find is for Andrew Bynum.
> 
> ...


Bynum if not for his injuries would be a lot better than Joakim Noah. Theres no way to prove whether or not thats true but I can only say that at the time of his signing his ceiling was considered much higher than Noah's.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> So if you are not really expecting a yearly allstar player why are you then ok with him getting paid like one?


Either I didn't explain myself correctly, or you didn't read my comments correctly. My point is that perennial all star players get max deals. I don't think if we were paying Noah 13-14 mil we would be paying for a perennial all star center. I think we would be paying for about the 6th best center in the NBA. Which I believe Noah will maintain over the course of his contract.



> The Bulls have tried to trade Deng in the past and they just cant. Heck if the Bulls even wanted to get a worse player in return they cant because nobody wants his contract. When you have a player who you just CANT trade I see that as hurting us.


Yeah we have allegedly tried to trade him for Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Al Jefferson, Boozer, etc... I don't exactly see those as indictments on how un-tradeable he is. It is all speculation anyways, noone here really knows what we have really tried to trade him for. There are always a host of Deng trade rumors, doesn't mean they are accurate. 


> How is trading Kirk Hinrich's de-escalating contract with 1 year left,worth about 17 million worse than Deng's *escalating *contract worth 51 million with 3 years left?


Because Hinrich was one of the worst starting 2g in the NBA last year and Deng is one of the better SF's in the league. You have to also look at production you can't soleley look at salary.


> In a salary cap structured league 2 million does matter, in a trade especially so yeah its pretty important.


I'm still not seeing how Deng's contract is killing this team. If it's 2 mil that Deng is over payed then how would not being able to use that 2 mil severely impact this team. In fact we are still 2 mil under the cap. We have 11 or 12 quality players. At least 2 all stars. I fail to see how his slight overpayment has hurt our team.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> Again, I don't expect Al Horford to get 15 mil a year and I don't expect Brook Lopez to get that sort of money right off his rookie contract.



Seriously?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

caseyrh said:


> Actually just wanted to point this out.
> 
> I think the most relevant contract I can find is for Andrew Bynum.
> 
> ...


Casey, no offense when I say this, but this is one comment among many that are leaving out the new CBA.

Bynum's contract was going to end in the current CBA, therefore his price would eventually rise very high.

If Noah goes into the open market under the new CBA (which he will if he doesn't extend), then most people think the new CBA will make it very hard for other teams to offer him $13-14M per season. 

The new CBA works in the Bulls favor, in a way that wasn't there in Bynum/Chandler/Dalembert's cases. While not quite apples to oranges, it's at the very least "oranges to grapefruit".

Also, I suggest you google the phrase "Andrew Bynum overpaid", there is alot of stuff out there.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Casey, no offense when I say this, but this is one comment among many that are leaving out the new CBA.


No offense taken. My defense for this is that I have no idea what the "new CBA" will actually change. Because I don't know I am just going off of what I do know. And what I do know is that good young centers get paid a lot of money. I want to get Noah as cheap as possible. And I hope the bulls do everything they can to insure that we do in fact re-sign Noah and get the best deal possible. 


> Also, I suggest you google the phrase "Andrew Bynum overpaid", there is alot of stuff out there.


And there should be. I think the dude is super overated. 

But when you live in LA you get a different story. Here all anyone talks about is how Bynum is the future of basketball. So on these boards and in my hometown there is a ton of Bynum love.


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