# Player Evaluations



## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

Kirk: Has been too inconsistent with his passing and decision making skills late in the game. Not to mention his dribbling the ball to death and throwing behind the back passes to Tyson "Mr Hands" Chandler. If Kirk is gonna be our point guard he has to play much better and make much better decisions down the stretch. 

Duhon: Doesn't really bring much offensively (which we already know). Hits the occasional jump shot and drive to the basket, but like everyone on this team is much too inconsistent. 

Ben: If Duhon is inconsistent, Gordon is Mr. Inconsistent to the fifth power. One night he drops 35, the next night he dissapears when his teammates need some offensive punch. Not any good on defense either. 

Noc: IMO the best player RIGHT NOW on the Bulls. He is by far the most consistent player we have as far as points and rebounds go. 30 points tonight on 13-15 shooting? I remember both his misses he was obviously fouled on too. That is awesome. Keep getting him the ball. Noc just needs to improve his decision making near the end of teams, which should come with experience. 

Deng: A very good player, but again inconsistent. His length, speed and ability to hit some mid-range jumpers go very well with his rebounding and defense. 

Tyson: Terrible. Trade him for anything you can get Pax. Draft two big men and sign two big men. You name a player in the NBA and i would trade tyson for him. 

Pike: What can I say, this man is for real. 5 points tonight including a sweet bank shot. Skiles needs to get P-dog some more pt. 

The common theme here is inconsistency, which is to be expected for such a young and inexperienced team. You see the inconsistency from game 1 to game 2 and even from quarter 3 of game 2 to quarter 4. Its amazing. Really though, with the experienced gained from this playoff series our young guys should learn and just continue to get better. IMO we have an excellent backcourt, but in adding more pieces to this team, I would just get rid of every frontcourt player we have and start over.


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

all in all...we're fine.

experience...experience...experience.

sometimes you gotta get owned by the bully before you understand how to knock the ******* on his butt!..

we should try and play mind games and really take it on the chin


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## maswe12 (Feb 23, 2005)

heat fan here....nocioni is RIDICULOUSLY good. hes playing like a dirk nowitski with an edge. I hate him so much (which is a good thing for you guys).


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

maswe12 said:


> heat fan here....nocioni is RIDICULOUSLY good. hes playing like a dirk nowitski with an edge. I hate him so much (which is a good thing for you guys).


I hear u...i can imagine HATING Noc if he weren't a Bull.

kinda like wade makes me want to break his legs cause he's so damn good at everything.........except for his suspect jumper.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Nocioni should definintely go into that "CORE PIECE" talk, he needs an extention, and NOW!

Tyson Chandler is the most worthless piece of garbage. IF we could package him up with that #16 pick, we may be able to get something decent for him but his contract is ridiculous. Too bad we couldn't send him to Golden State for Troy Murphy. Troy averages 14 & 10, no way their letting him go


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

What about Austin Chroshere & Jeff Foster for Chandler & Sweets?


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## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

Would you guys do this one

Chandler for Curry?


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## maswe12 (Feb 23, 2005)

smARTmouf said:


> I hear u...i can imagine HATING Noc if he weren't a Bull.
> 
> kinda like wade makes me want to break his legs cause he's so damn good at everything.........except for his suspect jumper.


Yeah his jumper is suspect until the 4th quarter...it'll come around though. Nocioni doesnt miss, he puts bodys on anyone that come near him and when he fouls he makes sure you remember it. If the guy works on his inside game more he can be a top 10-15 playeri n the league.


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

kirkisgod said:


> Would you guys do this one
> 
> Chandler for Curry?



ALL DAY!


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## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

smARTmouf said:


> ALL DAY!


Twice on Sundays?


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

kirkisgod said:


> Twice on Sundays?



I'd have 3 seperate slots on my memory card for Nba live just to do it 3 times on sunday!


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Well, Noc went from "being good for 9 minutes per game only" to a definite keeper. 

Experience is important, but we are not there yet as a team overall. We lack some pieces. 

Im not ready to give up on Chandler, although if you can drop his salary you should consider it.

But we should not rush into conclusions after this second game because we arent thinking rationally.


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## jordanwasprettygood (Feb 18, 2006)

I agree with what most of y'all are saying. Nocioni is by far our most consistent player. Kirk does so many good things but just as many bad things, it seems. He really spearheaded that comeback with a few jumpers at the end, and he cut right through the Heat D on several occasions. But his indecisiveness leads to too many turnovers. Ben and Deng have to be more consistent. Could you imagine if we got solid games from Kirk, Ben, Luol, and Andres every game?

One thing that kind of worries me is that I just don't sense that this team has a true leader right now, a true floor general. But I'm not too concerned because we're so young, and such things come with time. And right now we have a lot of bright young pieces that fire off here and there, but never simultaneously. Again, with time, hopefully our core can start to play cohesively and consistently. Tyson just keeps disappointing me with his lack of offense. Du, Sweets, etc. are servicable at best. 

But still, I am very, very excited for our future. Regardless of how this series turns out, let's hope all the Bulls work extremely hard this offseason, and come back next year hungry to go from "potential" to "realized potential."


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

El Chapu said:


> Well, Noc went from "being good for 9 minutes per game only" to a definite keeper.
> 
> Experience is important, but we are not there yet as a team overall. We lack some pieces.
> 
> ...



sheesh...an entire team playing like noc?

NO WONDER Argentina WHOOPED USA!


and i tried with Tyson...I really did...i may have had enough...i lost my shoe some where behind the TV....Yeah..my aim is horrible.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Whenever Tyson has the ball, I cringe. Whenver Sweetney has the ball within 10' of the hoop, I cringe. Those guys are seriously ticking me off.


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## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

I hope no other GMs see Tysons performance during these playoffs because I really want to get him off our hands.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

VincentVega said:


> Whenever Tyson has the ball, I cringe. Whenver Sweetney has the ball within 10' of the hoop, I cringe. Those guys are seriously ticking me off.


Is there a player in the NBA who, when he has the ball 15 feet from the hoop with his man 6 feet off of him, won't even turn to face the basket and looks to pass as desperately as Tyson? It's downright weird. He's never been a good offensive player, but this year he looks scared. Turn around and shoot the jumper, guy. It's WIDE open, and it's 15 feet.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

VincentVega said:


> Whenever Tyson has the ball, I cringe. Whenver Sweetney has the ball within 10' of the hoop, I cringe. Those guys are seriously ticking me off.


We need to get rid of BOTH of them...

Malik Allen & Darius Songalia are the only bigs worth keeping...

I doubt Harrington comes back next year


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

One more thing...

I said this earlier this season -- I wonder if the Bulls lead the league in moving screen fouls. Seems to happen at least three or four times a game. It's truly remarkable.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Remember my "How Long Do You Guys See Tyson In A Bulls Jersey?" thread? It's going to be UPPED cuz Paxson HAS to have "trade chandler" on the TOP of his offseason to-do list. He's playing WORSE in this series than he has all year.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

The ROY said:


> Remember my "How Long Do You Guys See Tyson In A Bulls Jersey?" thread? It's going to be UPPED cuz Paxson HAS to have "trade chandler" on the TOP of his offseason to-do list. He's playing WORSE in this series than he has all year.



Thats one reason not to trade him RIGHT NOW.

However, I could see the Knicks interested in Chandler if we want to make a salary dump. Would you go for it? Could you imagine JC, EC and TC....wearing blue and orange?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

hmmm..well they do have Jalen (wouldn't do it), Maurice Taylor & Allan Houston all expiring this year...maybe..wouldn't be such a bad idea...we'd have some money to go after a player in the 2007 FA class...

but how DIFFICULT could it be to get Theo Ratliff from Portland for Chandler? Hell Randolph wants a trade, maybe we could work something out.

If not, Philly is doing extensive offseason work to improve their team defensively..Dalembert for Chandler??


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Nocioni should definintely go into that "CORE PIECE" talk, he needs an extention, and NOW!
> 
> Tyson Chandler is the most worthless piece of garbage. IF we could package him up with that #16 pick, we may be able to get something decent for him but his contract is ridiculous. Too bad we couldn't send him to Golden State for Troy Murphy. Troy averages 14 & 10, no way their letting him go


Plus, TM can shoot threes. Can you say "Rasheed Lite"?


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## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

Who would the knicks give us for tyson


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

kirkisgod said:


> Who would the knicks give us for tyson


I'd take Maurice Taylor & Jalen Rose and waive BOTH of em....let both of their contacts come off the books for 2007...obviously that isn't enough though


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Malik Rose is coming off the books for them also...


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## KwaZulu (Jul 7, 2003)

Actually, I'd see whether we could deal Tyson to the Lakers. He is a California guy so that may have some impact. Also, Seattle might be interested, or Sacramento. I agree though, he really has regressed this year. If he had Noc's fire he'd be really good.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Funny part is, we were going into the offseason thinking we just needed to add a few FA bigs & our draft picks....It's looking like we may actually have to make some trades now...

John Paxson never seems to HAPPY to talk about Chandler anytime he's on the radio...And he doesn't seem like the type of GM that's going to be THAT patient with your development...especially 5 YEARS into with litterally NO improvement..


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Imagine trading him to Sac-Town in a package for Ron-Ron. Noc and Ron in the same team :biggrin: 

If we can trade him west, the better.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

El Chapu said:


> If we can trade him west, the better.


I would prefer that also


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> Actually, I'd see whether we could deal Tyson to the Lakers.


I never thought I would say this, but I'd rather have Kwame Brown than Chandler.


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

KwaZulu said:


> Actually, I'd see whether we could deal Tyson to the Lakers. He is a California guy so that may have some impact. Also, Seattle might be interested, or Sacramento. I agree though, he really has regressed this year. If he had Noc's fire he'd be really good.


They could pair him with Kwame Brown, perfect. They'd probably tear stuff up too.

The Suns have a forward who had 22 and 15 the other night in their playoff game. Ugh, what's his name. They dug him out of the scrap heap from somewhere... He's like 6' 10" too. Maybe we can get him.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Remember my "How Long Do You Guys See Tyson In A Bulls Jersey?" thread? It's going to be UPPED cuz Paxson HAS to have "trade chandler" on the TOP of his offseason to-do list. He's playing WORSE in this series than he has all year.


Nobody is going to take Tyson off our hands this summer. Whomever might be interested would be sending us a malcontent. Tyson better buckle down this summer and develop some skills.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

kirkisgod said:


> Would you guys do this one
> 
> Chandler for Curry?


If we draft someone like Tyrus Thomas and maybe Aldridge, yes, or pick someone up in FA that would obviously complement Eddy better (although I'm not seeing anyone outside of maybe Nene).

Otherwise, he is our only sure rebounder and defender (when not picking up fouls at an alarming rate) from the frontcourt at the moment so I probably wouldn't under the current situation.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

kirkisgod said:


> Tyson: Terrible. Trade him for anything you can get Pax. Draft two big men and sign two big men. You name a player in the NBA and i would trade tyson for him.


Luke Schenscher. :banana:


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## r1terrell23 (Feb 11, 2006)

Right before he was traded, Jalen Rose said TC was going to be an all star for years to come in this league and so did AD. Is TC that good in practice?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Nobody is going to take Tyson off our hands this summer. Whomever might be interested would be sending us a malcontent.


I'm PRETTY sure we could get a deal done for ATLEAST Theo Ratliff.

There's ALWAYS someone out there who values players on your team more than they do their own.


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

The kid is so apprehensive with the ball in his hands.

It's like Skiles gives him 30 lashes across the back for even THINKING of attempting some offensive moves.

And you can tell NO BODY on the team has confidence in Tyson....I see Tyson roll to the basket ALL THE TIME...He NEVER get's the ball like Curry did....And you know what...I DON'T BLAME EM....Why pass to the kid if it's just gonna get slapped out his hands?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I think all of the "trade Tyson" talk is overreaction. He hasn't looked good in the playoffs but he is matching up against Shaq. Hard to look good when you are giving up 50lbs to the most dominating post player in the league. That and Tyson DOESN'T have any offense, he simply is not an offensive player other than the occassional putback dunk, that doesn't make him garbage. Tyson needs to be playing at the 4 and we need to have someone with legit size playing the 5. If I were Skiles I would play Sweets against Shaq and bring Tyson in to help from the weakside. In any case, lets not forget that Tyson has had some awfully nice games this year too and hopefully he will get in shape this offseason and be ready to give us that all year next season. Trading him, unless we just found a really great deal, would be foolish IMO.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> I think all of the "trade Tyson" talk is overreaction. He hasn't looked good in the playoffs but he is matching up against Shaq. Hard to look good when you are giving up 50lbs to the most dominating post player in the league. That and Tyson DOESN'T have any offense, he simply is not an offensive player other than the occassional putback dunk, that doesn't make him garbage. Tyson needs to be playing at the 4 and we need to have someone with legit size playing the 5. If I were Skiles I would play Sweets against Shaq and bring Tyson in to help from the weakside. In any case, lets not forget that Tyson has had some awfully nice games this year too and hopefully he will get in shape this offseason and be ready to give us that all year next season. Trading him, unless we just found a really great deal, would be foolish IMO.


Dude,

Chandler's giving up 125 pounds to Shaq. Sweetney gives up 50


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Dude,
> 
> Chandler's giving up 125 pounds to Shaq. Sweetney gives up 50


you may be right, I think Tyson is listed at what? 230 or so? Shaq is 325? thats 95lbs right there! Which sort of illustrates my point.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ace,

I think you're right, though.

Miami is just a horrible matchup for us. They're DEEP at guard, and loaded with big men who are really athletic. In the post, they have THE guy who's a load for anyone in the league to handle.

In most other matchups, Chandler's presence is huge. No matter how poor he seems to play, as long as he stays out of foul trouble, when he's in the game, opponents seem to settle for a lot of outside shots.

We don't need to get smaller by trading away our only 7' player who gets meaningful minutes.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Ace,
> 
> I think you're right, though.
> 
> ...



Yep! Ding ding ding we have a winner! Not a good matychup for Tyson, he would be altering shots and boarding and doing a lot more against a less powerful front court. If we had the 5 seed and he was matched up against Kristic right now we would probably be talking about how GOOD he is playing.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

he's a good defender and great weakside shotblocker...

this isn't a overreaction, he just isn't WORTH his contract....

overrall, he's not a very good basketball player...period


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

Why does everyone think we could get ANYTHING for Tyson? He is a bad contract, with FOUR YEARS LEFT. You think that NBA GMs that get paid to evaluate talent aren't watching the same games as we are? 5 years and can't do anything except block a few shots. Who would want that? If anything, making the playoffs was bad because it has given Tyson more exposure to showcase his glaring deficiencies that show little to no signs of ever improving.

Worst case scenario, we make a trade for an equally bad contract for someone with the same major talent deficiencies. Who wants that? I'd rather stick Tyson on the end of the bench and bring him in for very limited minutes. At least he shows intensity and seems to bring some heart to the team despite every other of his many shortcomings.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Under Cartwright, I saw Tyson developing. He had a couple post moves and was starting to have a consistent jumper from the elbow.

It seems like under Skiles he's just being asked to grab rebounds and play defense, and the Bulls seem happy with that.

Its as if they are writing off development on the offensive end. 

Skiles has done a fine job, but perhaps he's not a good coach for developing the big guys. We're certainly a G/SF, motion-oriented team now.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

UMfan83 said:


> Why does everyone think we could get ANYTHING for Tyson? He is a bad contract, with FOUR YEARS LEFT. You think that NBA GMs that get paid to evaluate talent aren't watching the same games as we are? 5 years and can't do anything except block a few shots. Who would want that? If anything, making the playoffs was bad because it has given Tyson more exposure to showcase his glaring deficiencies that show little to no signs of ever improving.
> 
> Worst case scenario, we make a trade for an equally bad contract for someone with the same major talent deficiencies. Who wants that? I'd rather stick Tyson on the end of the bench and bring him in for very limited minutes. At least he shows intensity and seems to bring some heart to the team despite every other of his many shortcomings.



I think your underestimating Tyson's value based on a poor playoff performance against the best center in the league. Against most competetion Chandler can still rebound, alter shots, block shots and defend from the weakside well. At 7'1" and at his age there are certainly several NBA GM's that would love to trade for Tyson.


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

ace20004u said:


> Hard to look good when you are giving up 50lbs to the most dominating post player in the league.


50 pounds? More like a hundred. I agree though, that to maximize Tyson's potential, he needs a guy who is a good enough man defender that he can guard the other teams best big man scorer, though I think said guy has to be able to guard either 4's or 5's, given that most of the big time inside threats in the league play the 4. Nene, if he really is a good man defender, and he keeps his quickness to go with his bulk, could be that guy.

If Tyson can just play like he did last year and like he did during his good stretch this year, he is a valuable player, and not all that overpaid in the context of the whacked out market for NBA seven footers. If he could combine that with regaining the offensive confidence he had under Cartwright before hurting his back, he might even be fully worth the contract.


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## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

kukoc4ever said:


> Under Cartwright, I saw Tyson developing. He had a couple post moves and was starting to have a consistent jumper from the elbow.
> 
> It seems like under Skiles he's just being asked to grab rebounds and play defense, and the Bulls seem happy with that.
> 
> ...


I think we are trying to develop the big guys, but they just aren't good enough to get bigger roles on the team. So us being a perimeter oriented team is more out of necessity than anything else in my opinion.


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

The Bulls need to hire a sports shrink for Chandler.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UMfan83 said:


> Why does everyone think we could get ANYTHING for Tyson? He is a bad contract, with FOUR YEARS LEFT. You think that NBA GMs that get paid to evaluate talent aren't watching the same games as we are? 5 years and can't do anything except block a few shots. Who would want that? If anything, making the playoffs was bad because it has given Tyson more exposure to showcase his glaring deficiencies that show little to no signs of ever improving.
> 
> Worst case scenario, we make a trade for an equally bad contract for someone with the same major talent deficiencies. Who wants that? I'd rather stick Tyson on the end of the bench and bring him in for very limited minutes. At least he shows intensity and seems to bring some heart to the team despite every other of his many shortcomings.


I know this will burst your bubble, but he has five years left on his contract.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

jbulls said:


> Is there a player in the NBA who, when he has the ball 15 feet from the hoop with his man 6 feet off of him, won't even turn to face the basket and looks to pass as desperately as Tyson? It's downright weird. He's never been a good offensive player, but this year he looks scared. Turn around and shoot the jumper, guy. It's WIDE open, and it's 15 feet.


I notice this all the time too, and it makes me wonder what the hell happened to Tyson's head on offense. The dude just looks terrified on offense. And I mostly think this in the situations you described. Kirk or Ben will pass Tyson the ball on the elbow, the defender won't be guarding him, and he won't even face the f'in basket. It's like just thinking about taking a shot gives him indigestion or something. I think it's unrealistic to expect Tyson to ever be a really good offensive player, but man, he wasn't always THIS bad. 

I don't really find myself pining for the Cartwright days, but I do wonder what he did with Tyson that Skiles isn't, because Tyson looked like he was on the path to becoming a stellar big man. Sometimes I think it'd be worth it to see what he was doing for work these days, and give him a spot on the coaching staff just to work with Tyson.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

rosenthall said:


> I don't really find myself pining for the Cartwright days, but I do wonder what he did with Tyson that Skiles isn't, because Tyson looked like he was on the path to becoming a stellar big man. Sometimes I think it'd be worth it to see what he was doing for work these days, and give him a spot on the coaching staff just to work with Tyson.


He's an assistant coach with the Nets and his been since 2004.

Tyson needs to work on his offense in the summer. Repetition brings confidence.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Not Cartwright, obviously, but the Bulls could really use a big man coach on their bench starting this offseason. Beyond Tyson needing all kinds of skill work, we're likely to draft at least one big man and bring in another relatively young big or two. We should have a guy who can focus all his energy on that group and has valuable things to teach.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> Not Cartwright, obviously, but the Bulls could really use a big man coach on their bench starting this offseason. Beyond Tyson needing all kinds of skill work, we're likely to draft at least one big man and bring in another relatively young big or two. We should have a guy who can focus all his energy on that group and has valuable things to teach.


What's the point? The Bulls offense consists of dribbling around the lane, dribbling through the lane, and somehow getting the ball to someone in the corner for a shot. 

If you get my drift, the coach would surely have to figure out plays that involve big guys.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

rosenthall said:


> I notice this all the time too, and it makes me wonder what the hell happened to Tyson's head on offense. The dude just looks terrified on offense. And I mostly think this in the situations you described. Kirk or Ben will pass Tyson the ball on the elbow, the defender won't be guarding him, and he won't even face the f'in basket. It's like just thinking about taking a shot gives him indigestion or something. I think it's unrealistic to expect Tyson to ever be a really good offensive player, but man, he wasn't always THIS bad.
> 
> I don't really find myself pining for the Cartwright days, but I do wonder what he did with Tyson that Skiles isn't, because Tyson looked like he was on the path to becoming a stellar big man. Sometimes I think it'd be worth it to see what he was doing for work these days, and give him a spot on the coaching staff just to work with Tyson.


Exactly.

Scared Pavlovian dog.

As I said earlier, if there's a way to regress this much, I think there is a way to progress back and then some. He hasn't been as energetic on the offensive side of the floor as when I watched him as a rookie. 

I mean there was a time in his career when he was getting 20 points in NBA games and regularly in double figures (or close). He didn't even break 20 once this season.

I think what happens with players in this system is that they everyone besides Kirk gets specialized into doing one thing for the team and they sort of mind-**** themselves (or get mind-****ed by management) into thinking that that's all they can do.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Also, I'll go on record and say that trading Tyson right now would be a mistake. His value is probably at an alltime low, and he's performing well below levels that we have seen him at for extended periods of time. 

The way I see it, you can probably look at things two ways:

1). Tyson really is just garbage, and what we're seeing right now is what you're going to get.

2). Tyson's a decent player, and is worth keeping because he has some rare strengths, but he just needs to be in a situation where he can be allowed to play to his strengths in a team environment.

If you more or less believe option 2, then it makes sense to keep him, unless a remarkably good deal comes along. And if you believe in option 1, then I still think it makes more sense to wait until next trading deadline, where we'll have a better frontcourt to make up for his absence, and, ostensibly, we'll be better than we are right now, which by default should raise his value.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

rosenthall said:


> Also, I'll go on record and say that trading Tyson right now would be a mistake. His value is probably at an alltime low, and he's performing well below levels that we have seen him at for extended periods of time.
> 
> The way I see it, you can probably look at things two ways:
> 
> ...


In the words of Paxson when interviewed about Chandler's growth on the radio :

"Tyson is just Tyson"

John Paxson does not sound happy at all with Chandler's development. This offseason is probably his LAST to prove himself, if not, I don't see him with this team past the 07' season.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> What's the point? The Bulls offense consists of dribbling around the lane, dribbling through the lane, and somehow getting the ball to someone in the corner for a shot.
> 
> If you get my drift, the coach would surely have to figure out plays that involve big guys.


Are you trying to say that Skiles can't, or won't, incorporate a big man into our offense? What on earth gives you that impression? 

He fed Curry the ball last season, albeit in fits and starts. Do you honestly think anyone in the frontcourt this year is the kind of guy that would be productive if the offense went through them regularly? Our offense is what it is due to necessity. Bring in a few big men, and a coach to tutor them on skill, and I'm sure Skiles would find a way to include them.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> Are you trying to say that Skiles can't, or won't, incorporate a big man into our offense? What on earth gives you that impression?
> 
> He fed Curry the ball last season, albeit in fits and starts. Do you honestly think anyone in the frontcourt this year is the kind of guy that would be productive if the offense went through them regularly? Our offense is what it is due to necessity. Bring in a few big men, and a coach to tutor them on skill, and I'm sure Skiles would find a way to include them.


If Curry was that important to Skiles' scheme, he'd still be here. I do think so.

If Skiles was intent on developing Chandler's game, he'd feed him the ball in the post, at least early in games, just to get him some comfort level. You know, like he stuck with Hinrich at PG through 9 TO games.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> If Curry was that important to Skiles' scheme, he'd still be here.


 :yes:


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> If Curry was that important to Skiles' scheme, he'd still be here. I do think so.
> 
> If Skiles was intent on developing Chandler's game, he'd feed him the ball in the post, at least early in games, just to get him some comfort level. You know, like he stuck with Hinrich at PG through 9 TO games.


I don't see what the degree to which Curry was important to Skiles' scheme has to do with Flogging's point.

I think the point was that if the team had a guy who Skiles felt was capable of playing a part in the offense out of the post, then he would a point of incorporating plays that gave said guy touches in the post, just as he did for Curry and as he did for Sweetney early in the season and to a lesser extent even now.

I do agree that he isn't interested in feeding Chandler the ball for the sake of development. I don't think he does anything during games for the sake of development. I think he uses the guys he thinks are gonna best help the team, in the capacity he belives will best help the team. 

Also Cartwright was the one who stuck with Hinrich through his 9 TO game, singular.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> If Curry was that important to Skiles' scheme, he'd still be here. I do think so.
> 
> If Skiles was intent on developing Chandler's game, he'd feed him the ball in the post, at least early in games, just to get him some comfort level. You know, like he stuck with Hinrich at PG through 9 TO games.


Yeah, that whole heart thing had nothing to do with Curry's departure...sure. You evaded the point, in any event. Curry was involved in the offense last year. As you and k4e never tire of pointing out, he led the team in scoring. The Bulls made a point of getting him touches in situations where he could score. Do you deny this? 

Have you seen Chandler on the few times he does get the ball in the post? It leads to a turnover or a missed shot almost invariably. I'd love for Chandler to be a post presence, but he just isn't. Trying to establish Chandler in the post for "comfort zone" purposes would not lead to good things. I'm not saying Skiles is intent on developing Chandler's offensive game...he clearly is not, at the moment at least. But I do think if Chandler spent the summer with a big man coach and actually built up his skills in the offseason, Skiles might consider involving him more. There isn't much time for that during the season. Or, if the Bulls bring in guys who already have some offensive skill and work with this hypothetical coach, Skiles will try to get them involved. The way the offense was run this season has almost zero bearing on this, unless you are interested in losing 55 games just to get Chandler a lot of touches in the low post.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> What's the point? The Bulls offense consists of dribbling around the lane, dribbling through the lane, and somehow getting the ball to someone in the corner for a shot.


That's because when a player feeds the post, that post either doesn't shoot or throws up a shizophrenic heave (Chandler), gets rejected by anyone over 6'8" (Sweetney), or is primarily a spot-up shooter fed off of drives around or through the lane (Songaila, Allen). The only post who can consistently create his own shot is Harrington, and he shoots every time he touches the ball. 



> If you get my drift, the coach would surely have to figure out plays that involve big guys.


Why draw up plays for the low post when we're probably the worst low-post-scoring team in the league?


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