# Iverson to Denver, subject to finalization



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Marc Stein is reporting:

AI to Denver for Andre Miller, Joe Smith and 2 draft picks


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: M Stein reporting: AI Trade, subject to finalization*

I'm liking the two picks. How long/big is Andre's contract?


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: M Stein reporting: AI Trade, subject to finalization*

Thought I would add a link here..

AI Trade



> The Denver Nuggets have reached an agreement in principle with the Philadelphia 76ers to acquire Allen Iverson, according to NBA front-office sources.
> 
> The trade, pending league approval, some two weeks after Iverson demanded a trade in Philly, would send Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks to the Sixers for Iverson and perhaps another minimum-salaried player or two. It was expected to be completed later Tuesday barring any snags.
> 
> ...


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## mattematikz (Nov 30, 2005)

*Iverson to the Nuggets!!!*

"The Denver Nuggets have reached an agreement in principle with the Philadelphia 76ers to acquire Allen Iverson, according to NBA front-office sources.

The trade, pending league approval, some two weeks after Iverson demanded a trade in Philly, would send Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks to the Sixers for Iverson and perhaps another minimum-salaried player or two. It was expected to be completed later Tuesday barring any snags."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2702501


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: M Stein reporting: AI Trade, subject to finalization*

Wow... Just wow... Sixers got a pretty good deal out of that... I think Philly may actually be better with Andre because the other players like Iggy, Korver, Webber will get more shots but Andre will be there to be the floor general. PLUS 2 draft picks... Great deal for both teams.


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## DaGreat1 (May 18, 2006)

*Re: Iverson to the Nuggets!!!*



mattematikz said:


> "The Denver Nuggets have reached an agreement in principle with the Philadelphia 76ers to acquire Allen Iverson, according to NBA front-office sources.
> 
> The trade, pending league approval, some two weeks after Iverson demanded a trade in Philly, would send Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks to the Sixers for Iverson and perhaps another minimum-salaried player or two. It was expected to be completed later Tuesday barring any snags."
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2702501



woot woot... :yay: :clap: :cheers:


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: M Stein reporting: AI Trade, subject to finalization*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> AI to Denver for Andre Miller, Joe Smith and 2 draft picks


I think they could of done better

Smith and two late 1st rounders- alright. Think they could of done better with the picks, but this is a deep draft

As for Andre Miller, good player but I think he has some years left on a big contract. He will be good for their young athletes as a distributor though


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Iverson to the Nuggets!!!*

Thanks, McHale. Thanks.


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## DaGreat1 (May 18, 2006)

has a same team ever had the #1 and #2 scorer in the league b4??


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Denver is going to be scary good. Best starting backcourt in the league?


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## Diophantos (Nov 4, 2004)

NBA's two leading scorers on the same team (once Melo gets back). Should be a party.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

don't expect either one to be leading the league come end-of-year.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Do you really think this will be a tandem that works? I am not saying either way, but I thought Iverson would have been best served going to a team without a true superstar. Melo is not a big man and needs alot more shots than the likes of a KG. Not sure if this is going to work out. It could either be a match made in heaven, or a disaster. I guess we won't know for another 14 games.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

AI
Smith
Melo
Najera/Nene
Camby

smith as the shooter. Najera as the hustle guy. Camby as the beast inside...... this team is going to be great...and than of course Nene and Boykins off the bench


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

It should be interesting though. Carmelo is going to have to be playing off the ball a lot.


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

If I'm KG, I'd be going down to McHales' office right about now.

AI in powder blue and gold, what a sight that'll be.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Melo is a good enough mid range shooter to be very sucessful off of the ball.....

AI's penetration will get him lots of uncontested jumpers


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Zero Hero said:


> Do you really think this will be a tandem that works? I am not saying either way, but I thought Iverson would have been best served going to a team without a true superstar. Melo is not a big man and needs alot more shots than the likes of a KG. Not sure if this is going to work out. It could either be a match made in heaven, or a disaster. I guess we won't know for another 14 games.



Doubt both (or either, really) will be scoring 30 per game after this.

Their scoring styles are at least different. Iverson is a slasher, Anthony is a post up player. Both can jump shoot, but aren't great at it (will dish to Smith for that).


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

mjm1 said:


> If I'm KG, I'd be going down to McHales' office right about now.


Minny tried, but they didnt have the pieces to match this offer...... not enough picks/expirings


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Looks like Denver filled its void! I'm interested to see how AI's gonna fit with Melo, but we're all gonna have to wait for about a month to see that happen. Can't believe they're actually on the same team. Philly gets 2 1st round picks in a deep draft, which is great for a team that's now rebuilding. For them though, I might be worried about Miller. He's a solid player and a really great distributor, but I don't think he's gonna like it in Philly. The reason he left the Clippers and went to the Nuggets was to get away from the media and into a peaceful environment. Philly's anything but peaceful so he's gonna be looked at a lot now, but I hope it doesn't affect his play. I hope this trade turns out great for both teams.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Melo CAN play without the ball. Having AI should only make things easier for him. The 2 might get off to a slow start but this SHOULD eventually be a great, controversy-less combo.

Good deal for both teams the way I see it.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Mateo said:


> Doubt both (or either, really) will be scoring 30 per game after this.
> 
> Their scoring styles are at least different. Iverson is a slasher, Anthony is a post up player. Both can jump shoot, but aren't great at it (will dish to Smith for that).


Well yeah both of their scoring will go down, but it becomes a matter of how much are you really getting if you take the ball out of either of their hands. Are the AI intangibles really good enough to propel them to a championship team? Or are Melo's intangibles and non-ball activity really good enough to make him superstar effective on the floor? Because both of them will likely have the ball in their hands alot less than they were used to.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

and the best part for Denver is that they didnt give up their depth....only 2 players traded, and Joe Smith was very expendable.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

This will be crazy to watch.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

For one, good to see AI finally got traded so he can play again. 

Philly got a pretty good deal out of it...Denver, obviously, did as well on paper. Now we have to wait for Melo to get back to see how these two mesh together. It should definitely be very interesting and it just made the Western Conference that much more competitive.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

76ers don't want Davis, Monta Ellis, and Bietrus (center).


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Zero Hero said:


> Well yeah both of their scoring will go down, but it becomes a matter of how much are you really getting if you take the ball out of either of their hands. Are the AI intangibles really good enough to propel them to a championship team? Or are Melo's intangibles and non-ball activity really good enough to make him superstar effective on the floor? Because both of them will likely have the ball in their hands alot less than they were used to.


First off, you have to look to post up Carmelo every time. When you have a post up player, you go to them every time (if they are half way decent). It's the same thing that's happened in Seattle for the last few years. They try to post up Lewis, if he can't get good position, then they pass it to Allen (who usually scores more in the end).

The same thing would have happened if Iverson had gone to Minnesota. Of course both players are now going to have the ball for a lower total time, but their roles as scorers isn't going to change.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> 76ers don't want Davis, Monta Ellis, and Bietrus (center).


Did Beidrins fuse with Pietrus Dragonball Z style? 

Also, I made an entertainment thread, did you see it? :yay:


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

I feel like this is going to be bad trade for the Nuggets. Iverson will take all the shots and Carmelo will be reducuced to mediocre player again.
If it is true, It is time to say good bye to Carmelo's Scoring title hopes.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

So will he suit up tomorrow night vs. the Suns?


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Iverson has very little value.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

The last two palyers that led the league in points on the same team were Jerry West and Gail Goodrich with the Lakers.

Andre Miller has two years left on his contract at like $19 million. It's a huge contract, but he's a GREAT point guard. You guys will love him!


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

man denver is gonna be very good at the endof the year.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

One thing to consider, even though Denver is leading the league in pace, Karl wants to play faster and Dre was the one holding the team back.

I can see both Melo and AI averaging over 28 PPG because of the pace


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

darth-horax said:


> The last two palyers that led the league in points on the same team were Jerry West and Gail Goodrich with the Lakers.
> 
> Andre Miller has two years left on his contract at like $19 million. It's a huge contract, but he's a GREAT point guard. You guys will love him!


Everyone seems to forget how good Andre Miller is. He is a good passer and always shoots high FGs.I think Denver is the loser in this trade.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Hmm interesting. We'll see how this will work out - AI will have to be the distrubitor here as he's got the most dribbling/passing skills in Denver now and both Melo and Smith are gunners/finishers.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> I can see both Melo and AI averaging over 28 PPG because of the pace


Too bad it'll be a month or so before we can see that particular pairing.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Fool me once, shame on you. 
Fool me twice, shame on me.

Can't see AI meshing with anyone. Much less Carmelo Anthony.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

This team to going to go into major turmoil...just wait. 3 HUGE egos on the court at the same time(jr ai melo) and only 1 ball...it won't be pretty.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Theonee said:


> Everyone seems to forget how good Andre Miller is. He is a good passer and always shoots high FGs.I think Denver is the loser in this trade.


I think he tends to be overrated by people who rely on his assist statistics. Really the thing that has always held him back is his atrocious jump shot. He honestly makes Jason Kidd look like Mark Price by comparison.

I've watched enough Andre Miller to know that he's an above average point guard who neither carries a team nor kills a team. However, in half court offense you will play 5 on 4 because he's worthless for scoring unless he's given 10+ seconds to do a lot of dribbling and driving.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Am I the only one who thinks Nugs raped 6ers in this deal? Philly ain't even getting a lotery pick nevermind a top 5 which they should for a AI caliber. Nuggets didn't give up anything. Damn it, I want AI with KG.

I can't believe they didn't even give up Smith in the deal, what a rip off. It will be a long half decade for sixers fan, I hope sixers will be able to shop their 2 picks for a top 7-10 pick next draft and that Iggy will sho his potential to lead a team because he just became the franchise. Which is hard to believe.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

MAS RipCity said:


> This team to going to go into major turmoil...just wait. 3 HUGE egos on the court at the same time(jr ai melo) and only 1 ball...it won't be pretty.


AI fits in a team like Minnesota well because Garnett is not selfish.
We all know Anthony cannot play without the ball and Iverson doesn't give up the ball much.
During the summer FIBA games the main problem for team USA was that, Wade, Lebron and Anthony were not able to play without the ball in their hands all the time.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

MAS RipCity said:


> This team to going to go into major turmoil...just wait. 3 HUGE egos on the court at the same time(jr ai melo) and only 1 ball...it won't be pretty.


 
Smith and Melo gets along great, Smith looks up to Melo alot, Melo is a mentor to him and from Melo's reaction in the knicks game, it looks reciprocal, Melo sees smith as his protegee, not just a groupie.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Dee-Zy said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Nugs raped 6ers in this deal? Philly ain't even getting a lotery pick nevermind a top 5 which they should for a AI caliber. Nuggets didn't give up anything. Damn it, I want AI with KG.
> 
> I can't believe they didn't even give up Smith in the deal, what a rip off. It will be a long half decade for sixers fan, I hope sixers will be able to shop their 2 picks for a top 7-10 pick next draft and that Iggy will sho his potential to lead a team because he just became the franchise. Which is hard to believe.


Atleast they are getting better than what Toronto got for VC. Toronto got an expensive kidney for VC which they didn't get to use, but are still paying and Miami is using.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Maybe the missing piece for Denver that they've been seeking. I wonder how well AI and Melo can share the scoring load.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> For one, good to see AI finally got traded so he can play again.
> 
> Philly got a pretty good deal out of it...Denver, obviously, did as well on paper. Now we have to wait for Melo to get back to see how these two mesh together. It should definitely be very interesting and it just made the Western Conference that much more competitive.


By a good deal you mean 3 quarters for a dollar good? Joe Smith has always been one of the biggest busts of all time! So it's basically Miller and two first round picks for AI. Philly is only benefitting from this trade because it's addition by subtraction. Now they just have to wait out Webber's contract.


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## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

KG officially on suicide watch. I'm really interested to hear what he has to say about all of this. He'll probably say one of his delusional thoughts like "We just need to gel and get comfortable with each other's game, we have a bright future and stuff" :rofl:


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

does that mean that DerMarr Johnson will give up his number or AI will have a new one?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I think Melo is pretty good off the ball. The problem will be if Iverson though doesn't get him the ball enough or gets annoyed with the amount of shots melo will put. I could see it working and I can see it not working. It will be interesitng for sure and I think it's a good risk to take for Denver. They weren't going to win the West against the like of SAS, Phoenis, and Dallas and they still might not but at least they're trying to put themselves into position


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## CbobbyB (Feb 16, 2006)

hmm...i now have a new team to hate.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I'm going to hold out on my opinion for this one. Carmelo, JR Smith and Allen Iverson? That's a whole lot of attitude going around, and three guys who love to shoot. All we need is Kenyon Martin back and I could say with confidence that there would be atleast one locker room fight reported before the end of the season. 

I will say though that Marcus Camby alone is better than any player Iverson's played with since Mutombo in 2001. People talk about how Garnett and Iverson would be a good fit because of the inside-outside and scoring+all-around games meshing, but Camby is one of the best rebounders and shotblockers in the league, plus can hit the 15 footer off the catch and shoot. Perfect for Iverson. That's before we even start talking about Iverson and Melo. 

I think Iverson and Camby will be scarier as a duo than Iverson and Melo, but how they do as a trio is what I'm wondering.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

This is when we will start to see Melo being more of a rich mans Rip hamilton.


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## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I'm going to hold out on my opinion for this one. Carmelo, JR Smith and Allen Iverson? That's a whole lot of attitude going around, and three guys who love to shoot. All we need is Kenyon Martin back and I could say with confidence that there would be atleast one locker room fight reported before the end of the season.
> 
> I will say though that Marcus Camby alone is better than any player Iverson's played with since Mutombo in 2001. People talk about how Garnett and Iverson would be a good fit because of the inside-outside and scoring+all-around games meshing, but Camby is one of the best rebounders and shotblockers in the league, plus can hit the 15 footer off the catch and shoot. Perfect for Iverson. That's before we even start talking about Iverson and Melo.
> 
> I think Iverson and Camby will be scarier as a duo than Iverson and Melo, but how they do as a trio is what I'm wondering.


Agreed, I have no doubt that this will work very well for Denver, Karl will find a way to make this work.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Kobe and AI backcourt for All-Star game? Cool!


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Yeah...that means the east loses another superstar, and for who? Andre Miller? LeBron and Wade can hold up the fort.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

so is friday ai's first game?

i hope so, i am wondering how this can work out...

regardless, this still doesn't make them better than the spurs or the mavs... the suns-thats questionable


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

HB said:


> Denver is going to be scary good. Best starting backcourt in the league?


Hell No.. Iverson and Smith best backcourt? No way.

I am not sure Denver got much better, Miller was important to their high scoring game, now they dont have that motor anymore . Not sure how well Iverson and Anthony can co-exist..


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> I think Melo is pretty good off the ball. The problem will be if Iverson though doesn't get him the ball enough or gets annoyed with the amount of shots melo will put. I could see it working and I can see it not working. It will be interesitng for sure and I think it's a good risk to take for Denver. They weren't going to win the West against the like of SAS, Phoenis, and Dallas and they still might not but at least they're trying to put themselves into position


Shots shouldn't be an issue. Every team in the league averages between 75-80 FGAs per game. Even if the two players shot as often as they currently do, and they probably won't, it would still fit comfortably within the normal amount of shot attempts.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

****ing Western COnfrence is just too damn loaded. **** why cant some stars/teams move out east or something. Ugh


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Yeah...that means the east loses another superstar, and for who? Andre Miller? LeBron and Wade can hold up the fort.


At this point the East might as well only invite 7 or 8 players to be on the all-star team, otherwise it'll look a little pathetic having Caron Butler on the team.


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## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

Does this trade actually help the Nuggets? I think an Iverson/Garnett pairing would actually work. But how do two bigtime scorers minus a legit point guard actually equate to a better deal for Denver?

Philly will be better off with Miller on board than with Iverson suspended indefinitely. But their team is still a mess.

Just weird...maybe another deal is in the works shortly? Afterall, Denver has different needs than Philly and might be able to move Iverson for something they couldn't have moved Miller et al for...


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Theonee said:


> Atleast they are getting better than what Toronto got for VC. Toronto got an expensive kidney for VC which they didn't get to use, but are still paying and Miami is using.


Well, that's not saying much about the trade. AI is a much better player than VC as well, so even if they ended up in similar trade scenarios, you would still want to get more for AI.

I think the trade is fairly even for both sides as far as their interests go. Denver must feel that with Melo, JR, and Nene they are set at those positions for years to come. With that in mind, even if they kept those 2 picks, whoever they draft next season will probably not be able to get significant playtime anyway. Basically, Denver got AI while not losing much at all.

From Philly's side, it is clear that their goal is to shed salaries and go into rebuilding mode. Instead of trading AI for another marquee player who either already have a big contract or will be looking for a big contract down the road, they get 2 picks in a deep draft along with Andre Miller who's a decent pg who's expiring contract will again be trade bait in 07' and 08'. Joe Smith's ~7 mil a year will also come off the books after 06'. Add that to the likely chances of the Sixers getting either Oden or Durant next year, Philly should be back and running in a couple of years if everything goes well.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

So now AI gets to help another team exit from the playoffs.

I'm going to say this doesn't work well. I'll say
I'm wrong if it doesn't, but I'm positive this comes to an
ugly end with someone (Anthony, AI, Camby) leaving angry.

It has the making of it since there isn't enough shots in 48 minutes to please everyone.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Denver Black Holes. You pass, but you will never see the ball again!


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Mateo said:


> Shots shouldn't be an issue. Every team in the league averages between 75-80 FGAs per game. Even if the two players shot as often as they currently do, and they probably won't, it would still fit comfortably within the normal amount of shot attempts.


Combined they currently average about 50 shots so taht would leave for the rest of TEAM just 25 shots (about how much each individiually  is shooting).

To make this work I see AI having to significantly drop his FGA/game as he'll have to be the distrubitor


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

darth-horax said:


> The last two palyers that led the league in points on the same team were Jerry West and Gail Goodrich with the Lakers.


Actually it was another Nuggets pair--Alex English and Kiki Vandeweghe in the '80s.


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## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

I guess we'll see how much having a quality point who can run a break like Miller has helped Anthony's game.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Denver Black Holes. You pass, but you will never see the ball again!


Good thing they have a non-scoring front court, then. Nene, Najera and Camby will be perfect in terms of playing hard defense and being comfortable not scoring a tonne.


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

damnit, oh well..

Denver is goona be very interesting to follow


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## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

Ouch, the media is already playing this up as an Iverson vs. Anthony thing: http://msn.foxsports.com/nba

*"Replacement Player: Exit Carmelo Anthony. Enter Allen Iverson. One day after the Nuggets learned their star player would be suspended for 15 games, they've reportedly swung a deal with the Sixers for another one."*

Ouch. How long before Anthony loses his cool in a situation like this??


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

People forget how well Melo moves without the ball. He's totally awesome at it, and even ESPN said so, which makes it true. 

What you forget is that with a backcourt of AI, JR Smith, and Melo...who will get double teamed? You can't leave any of them open...there'll be a ton of open shots for everybody.

Plus, AI will push the rock, which is what Dre wasn't doing much of (except last night), which will get the entire team more shots.

It'll work.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Dr.Seuss said:


> So now AI gets to help another team exit from the playoffs.
> 
> I'm going to say this doesn't work well. I'll say
> I'm wrong if it doesn't, but I'm positive this comes to an
> ...


That's just not true. Last year the Grizzles averaged the fewest FGAs per game with 75, the Suns the most with 87.

This year Anthony is averaging 24 FGAs per game, Iverson 22. That still leaves between 30 - 40 shots for their role players, and will likely be on that high end. It's simply not a problem. Also consider that out of those FGAs that the two players take, they make an average of 46% of them, that's better than the league average (and for just those two players), it's really not a problem.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

I'm moderately glad the deal came through, but I'm uneasy about losing Miller. People on this board go on about his flaws, but he's still an above-average, steady player at a position that's extremely hard to fill. 

This deal probably works for the Nuggets if Anthony continues to average at least 27 ppg and Iverson can be enough of a true playmaker to post at least 8 apg. Maybe Anthony's assists will go up, which wouldn't be a bad thing. 

Camby and J.R. should be able to play off of Iverson extremely well, and Evans/Nene/Najera should fit in just fine. But we'll all be watching the Anthony/Iverson chemistry. They both have to be willing to defer to the other. If one of them has an undying need to be The Man, then one of them will be wearing a different uniform in two years.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Interesting team. 3 volume scorers combined with a lot of physical, non-ball demanding rebounders. Now add a coach that wants to push the pace faster. They are going to be a hard team to match up with in the playoffs because they are going to have a mismatch capable of going nutz to close the game. 

On the Philly side, I look for Andre Miller to possibly be back in the West at the deadline. He has value as a proven PG especialy for the right team.




P.S. New Jersy is not the home of The Big Three anymore. The New Big Three is now AI, Melo, and JR.:clap2:


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Combined they currently average about 50 shots so taht would leave for the rest of TEAM just 25 shots (about how much each individiually  is shooting).
> 
> To make this work I see AI having to significantly drop his FGA/game as he'll have to be the distrubitor


They'll both drop a little bit. Iverson actually only averages 22 FGAs per game, Anthony 24. That's 46, which leaves 30 - 40 for the rest of the players. Of which who is a scorer exactly? Smith.... Camby and Boykins sort of.. that's about it.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I think people underestimate the ability of Andre Miller to involve his team-mates. It's almost that he is the complete opposite of AI.

I like this trade for both sides although I don't think that AI will make the Nuggets instant contenders. As good as he is in terms of scoring, he is a liability on the defensive end because of his size. But Denver should be even more fun to watch right now. 

The Sixers got what they wanted, if you rebuild you should look for a deal like this. Miller should help Iggy to develop and the picks might turn out into quite good players.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> P.S. New Jersy is not the home of The Big Three anymore. The New Big Three is now AI, Melo, and JR.:clap2:


WTF?

Phoenix, nuff said. I can only laugh at people who are now claiming Denver has the most firepower in the league. Denver will only go as far as Camby carries them, he is the most vital part to their success, and Miller was also very vital as he is one of the few true PGs in the league.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

smallest pair of point guards ever?


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Mateo said:


> They'll both drop a little bit. Iverson actually only averages 22 FGAs per game, Anthony 24. That's 46, which leaves 30 - 40 for the rest of the players. Of which who is a scorer exactly? Smith.... Camby and Boykins sort of.. that's about it.


That's flawed logic, Iverson averages a lot more shot attempts when you factor in the shots he is missing when he gets fouled.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Andre Miller is one of the most under rated guards in the league.
Look at his stats; 13 ppg, .472 fg, 4.5 rpg, 9.1 apg, 1.61 spg, 3.04 to.
His assist to turnover ratio is more than 3.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Zero Hero said:


> Do you really think this will be a tandem that works? I am not saying either way, but I thought Iverson would have been best served going to a team without a true superstar. Melo is not a big man and needs alot more shots than the likes of a KG. Not sure if this is going to work out. It could either be a match made in heaven, or a disaster. I guess we won't know for another 14 games.


While Melo isn't a big man, he's capable of playing a power game. I can envision the Nuggets spending a lot of time with Ivy on the perimeter and Melo in the post. That could create nightmares for the opposition. Do you send a help defender to corrale Iverson or a help defender to prevent Melo from overpowering his defender down low?

Obviously, for them to do well together it requires a buy-in from both guys. Melo hasn't ever seemed to me the sort who would begrudge sharing the ball for the greater good, and Iverson has generally played well with other stars in the All-Star game and Olympics. So, I can see it working.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Amareca said:


> That's flawed logic, Iverson averages a lot more shot attempts when you factor in the shots he is missing when he gets fouled.


Why would you want to factor those in? They aren't included in any players (or team's) average FGA.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Mateo said:


> That's just not true. Last year the Grizzles averaged the fewest FGAs per game with 75, the Suns the most with 87.
> 
> This year Anthony is averaging 24 FGAs per game, Iverson 22. That still leaves between 30 - 40 shots for their role players, and will likely be on that high end. It's simply not a problem. Also consider that out of those FGAs that the two players take, they make an average of 46% of them, that's better than the league average (and for just those two players), it's really not a problem.



You can't be a dominate scorer with a dominate scorer.
So he is going to be the play-maker when neither of them
are qualified?


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

i dont think AI has a problem being 2nd scorer as long as hes the primary playmaker.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Wizards trio>Nets Trio>Nuggets trio


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> P.S. New Jersy is not the home of The Big Three anymore. The New Big Three is now AI, Melo, and JR.:clap2:


by AI, Melo, and JR do you mean Nash, Marion, and Stoudemire? :clap2:


----------



## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

Dr.Seuss said:


> You can't be a dominate scorer with a dominate scorer.
> So he is going to be the play-maker when neither of them
> are qualified?


Shaq and Kobe would beg to differ.



Minstrel said:


> While Melo isn't a big man, he's capable of playing a power game. I can envision the Nuggets spending a lot of time with Ivy on the perimeter and Melo in the post. That could create nightmares for the opposition. Do you send a help defender to corrale Iverson or a help defender to prevent Melo from overpowering his defender down low?
> 
> Obviously, for them to do well together it requires a buy-in from both guys. Melo hasn't ever seemed to me the sort who would begrudge sharing the ball for the greater good, and Iverson has generally played well with other stars in the All-Star game and Olympics. So, I can see it working.


I agree, Melo is the best power small forward there is. If Iverson buys into a drive and dish game with Melo cutting and JR Smith camping, the Nuggets will be unstoppable in the crunch time.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

HB said:


> Wizards trio>Nets Trio>Nuggets trio


suns trio > all trios


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

By the way, the 2002 Lakers averaged 83 FGA game, Bryant consuming 20 of those and O'Neal 18. If this pairing drops just a little it won't be much different than that pair.


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

c p 9 said:


> by AI, Melo, and JR do you mean Nash, Marion, and Stoudemire? :clap2:


1, 2, and 3 refer to their backcourt positions.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Mateo said:


> By the way, the 2002 Lakers averaged 83 FGA game, Bryant consuming 20 of those and O'Neal 18. If this pairing drops just a little it won't be much different than that pair.


You dont see a slight difference in those 2 pairs?


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Like A Breath said:


> Shaq and Kobe would beg to differ.




I don't think they would.....since Carmelo isn't a 
7'1 350 pound center. Both are perimeter players which make
this very different.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Dr.Seuss said:


> You can't be a dominate scorer with a dominate scorer.
> So he is going to be the play-maker when neither of them
> are qualified?


"play-making" is the most overrated aspect of basketball. Assists is the most overrated stat in sports. Last year the Mavericks were ranked 29th in assists. The Heat were ranked 21st.

I'm not say assists are bad, just that they aren't necessary to be good.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Mateo said:


> By the way, the 2002 Lakers averaged 83 FGA game, Bryant consuming 20 of those and O'Neal 18. If this pairing drops just a little it won't be much different than that pair.


Shaw doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time where as carmelo does.


----------



## DaGreat1 (May 18, 2006)

chucky atkins, eddie jones, mike miller > WNBA


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

mjm1 said:


> 1, 2, and 3 refer to their backcourt positions.


No they dont, big 3, trio, it doesn't means 1,2,3. Denver would still not be the best though, People are acting like JR Smith is a star which he clearly isn't.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Amareca said:


> You dont see a slight difference in those 2 pairs?


There are lots of differences. I never said that this team is going to be good as one of the best teams of the decade. I am just fighting the notion that this is a disaster because Anthony and Iverson shoot too much, and there aren't enough FGAs to go around.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Mateo said:


> "play-making" is the most overrated aspect of basketball. Assists is the most overrated stat in sports. Last year the Mavericks were ranked 29th in assists. The Heat were ranked 21st.
> 
> I'm not say assists are bad, just that they aren't necessary to be good.



I didn't say anything about assist. I'm talking about one
of them taking on a role of distributing. Which neither
are capable of.


----------



## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

Usually you see the team giving up the superstar in trades getting ripped off, but I think this trade will work out well for both teams.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

DaGreat1 said:


> chucky atkins, eddie jones, mike miller > WNBA


:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

mjm1 said:


> 1, 2, and 3 refer to their backcourt positions.


3 is a frontcourt position...


----------



## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

people said that about Scottie adn Michael, too.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Mateo said:


> There are lots of differences. I never said that this team is going to be good as one of the best teams of the decade. I am just fighting the notion that this is a disaster because Anthony and Iverson shoot too much, and there aren't enough FGAs to go around.


Shaq got lots of his FGA by putbacks and finishing, its not like he hogged the ball and threw up shots.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

darth-horax said:


> people said that about Scottie adn Michael, too.


Don't see a Pippen in Iverson or Anthony.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Dr.Seuss said:


> I didn't say anything about assist. I'm talking about one
> of them taking on a role of distributing. Which neither
> are capable of.


I don't know what that entails. You'll have to be more specific.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

OMG, this team is going to have a lot of offense.

PG: Allen Iverson...Earl Boykins
SG: J.R. Smith...Yakhouba Diawara...Dermarr Johnson
SF: Carmelo Anthony...Eduardo Najera
PF: Nene...Reggie Evans...Linas Kleiza
C: Marcus Camby...Jamal Sampson


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Amareca said:


> Don't see a Pippen in Iverson or Anthony.


or MJ.


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

For all those who are in limbo whether having 2 jackers could work or not, here's a good read on the topic.

http://www.nbcsports.com/nba/600326/detail.html


----------



## smrtguy (Jun 20, 2006)

Were talking about passing. Passing man. Passing. Not shooting the ball, not shooting the ball, but passing.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

One thing is for sure, the big 3 (Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas) will all want to avoid playing Denver in the first round. Too much upset potential if they are healthy plus the homecourt advantage of the mile-high city..


----------



## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Amareca said:


> WTF?
> 
> Phoenix, nuff said. I can only laugh at people who are now claiming Denver has the most firepower in the league. Denver will only go as far as Camby carries them, he is the most vital part to their success, and Miller was also very vital as he is one of the few true PGs in the league.


I am going to have to agree with him


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

smrtguy said:


> Were talking about passing. Passing man. Passing. Not shooting the ball, not shooting the ball, but passing.


Yes, but when you pass a ball someone's got to shoot it right? or do they just hold on to it until the shot clock expires??


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Amareca said:


> Shaq got lots of his FGA by putbacks and finishing, its not like he hogged the ball and threw up shots.


So now the argument has shifted from "there's not enough FGAs" to "there's not enough shot clocks"? Fine. Shaq did score some on put backs. So does Anthony. In fact, if I remember correctly, he was one of the league leaders in alley oops last year. Is that ball hogging, the 1 second it takes to complete an alley oop?

But to make it even more definitive, let's go to basketball-reference.com and look at usage ratings. In 2002 (the year I used as an example earlier), Shaq had a rating of 28, Kobe of 29. Last year (only because the website doesn't track stats in-season), Anthony had a rating of 28 and Iverson 32. So still, it shows that they only need to drop a little (which neither have had a reason to do in the past) to be comparable with that high scoring combo.

Since we've shown that the two neither shoot too much to co-exist, nor use the ball too much to co-exist, what is the next excuse?


----------



## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Any chance we can trade Najera and a second rounder for KG?


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Samael said:


> Yes, but when you pass a ball someone's got to shoot it right? or do they just hold on to it until the shot clock expires??


I think he was making a joke. Sounded like a play on Iverson's infamous practice comments.


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> Any chance we can trade Najera and a second rounder for KG?


There's always a chance when your dealing with McHale. Maybe he'll even throw in a first rounder like the Cassell trade.


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

Mateo said:


> I think he was making a joke. Sounded like a play on Iverson's infamous practice comments.


I Know, I was just biting into it.


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Nuggets have their own first rounder.

Who gave them the another first rounder?


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

darth-horax said:


> Any chance we can trade Najera and a second rounder for KG?


Yes, it works. All you need is just thru a third team.

Najera/2nd rounder/filler to Hawks for J Johnson.

JJ turned out to be a wolf.


----------



## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> Any chance we can trade Najera and a second rounder for KG?


one can only hope.

but mchale might be stupid enough...


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

76ers get 2 worst fist round picks:

Nuggets 1st and Mavs 1st.

Iverson has little value?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

So how does this affect the allstar landscape. I know Vince will probably get to start in the East, but who gets the bounce in the West. Kobe or Tmac


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

HB said:


> So how does this affect the allstar landscape. I know Vince will probably get to start in the East, but who gets the bounce in the West. Kobe or Tmac


China says Kobe or Iverson.


----------



## motimeabg (May 15, 2006)

Theonee said:


> I feel like this is going to be bad trade for the Nuggets. Iverson will take all the shots and Carmelo will be reducuced to mediocre player again.
> If it is true, It is time to say good bye to Carmelo's Scoring title hopes.


dude i got banned for telling someone to die, and i want to say the same to u, but i dont cuz i dont wanna get banned all the time

anyways

this trade means the following

easier oppurtunity for iverson to get inside cuz of open lanes

more assists for iverson cuz carmelo will get alot of easy shots playing an open court game with iverson

alot easier for melo to score since iverson will draw tremendous attention in the lane

iversons main strenght is driving inside, now nuggets got a multidimensional team which will come at u offensivly all night

big time trade

i would have prefered iverson to minni or even boston, but nuggets arent that bad of a choice


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Amareca said:


> China says Kobe or Iverson.


Yes, China is in control. Iverson has no shot, absolutely no shot.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

So much for Carmelo's 30 ppg season...


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: Iverson to the Nuggets!!!*



Mateo said:



> Thanks, McHale. Thanks.


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

HB said:


> So how does this affect the allstar landscape. I know Vince will probably get to start in the East, but who gets the bounce in the West. _Kobe or Tmac_


Honestly, I would not watch the All-Star game if China votes in Tracy ahead of Kobe. That would just be a complete joke, one that would need to be corrected by the NBA. Dont know, maybe restricting voter privalages to international/communist countries is in order. Its harsh, but the only way


----------



## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> OMG, this team is going to have a lot of offense.
> 
> PG: Allen Iverson...Earl Boykins
> SG: J.R. Smith...Yakhouba Diawara...Dermarr Johnson
> ...


I'm guessing the core rotation is:

PG: Iverson/Boykins
SG: Smith/Diawara
SF: Anthony/Kleiza
PF: Najera/Evans
C: Camby/Nene

I don't understand why Nene or at least Evans hasn't been starting, but Karl seems to love Najera (he's Denver's Kurt Rambis), and Nene is the team's best backup center.


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

c p 9 said:


> 3 is a frontcourt position...


In this new nba, it has evolved into a _parimeter _position.


----------



## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Evans can't hit free throws. 
Nene can backup either PF or C, so he goes in at either one when needed...he's the 6th man.

Man, we're stacked.


----------



## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

darth-horax said:


> Man, we're stacked.


Yep! 

(Please, Allen, be a point guard...please, Allen, be a point guard...)


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

mjm1 said:


> Honestly, I would not watch the All-Star game if China votes in Tracy ahead of Kobe. That would just be a complete joke, one that would need to be corrected by the NBA. Dont know, maybe restricting voter privalages to international/communist countries is in order. Its harsh, but the only way


The worst thing was NBA putting Mcgrady in guards ballot, when he has been forwards his entire career.
Maybe NBA knew that forward position in the west is loaded.


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

Taken from ESPN; New uniform looks good to me.


----------



## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

I don't care who ends up a starter. Anthony and Iverson will both be in the game regardless (somehow I see McGrady taking the weekend off).


----------



## motimeabg (May 15, 2006)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> So much for Carmelo's 30 ppg season...



WHO GIVES A FLYING FLIPPIN BURGER ABOUT HIS SCORING TITLE

when u are now a possible CHAMPIONSHIP title contender

18 thousand post man soundin like a rookie

denvers gonna be the most entertainin team to watch man

look at the positives

*EDIT*- HB


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

motimeabg said:


> *EDIT*- HB


Damn, why was that edited?? I was about to name that as the quote of the year.:rofl:


----------



## motimeabg (May 15, 2006)

Samael said:


> Damn, why was that edited?? I was about to name that as the quote of the year.


LOL WOW
ahahah I have NO CLUE


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

watch out for this squad once Nene is healthy, and of course accounting for the 20 games or so that camby will miss.


----------



## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

I don't see the Nuggets as a title contender - before or after this trade. I think they've disrupted the continuity of a probable first round exit in exchange for a more volatile probable first round exit with a more expensive and impossible to control superstar.

They'll probably be one of the more entertaining teams to watch, and win they win, they'll be nigh unstoppable. But, it won't happen consistently enough against the better teams in the league IMO.

(Maybe there's another deal in the works before the deadline!?)


----------



## motimeabg (May 15, 2006)

someone find a way to get that quote back up, i feel proud of it and its sooo true aswell


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

motimeabg said:


> WHO GIVES A FLYING FLIPPIN BURGER ABOUT HIS SCORING TITLE
> 
> when u are now a possible CHAMPIONSHIP title contender
> 
> ...


I think Anthony cares about scoring title. He has been in the game till the end in two blowout games, and he was shooting the ball with 10 seconds left in the game.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

motimeabg said:


> LOL WOW
> ahahah I have NO CLUE


Cause it was unecessary. No need to attack the poster. Bud Boy FWIW is a very good poster.


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

Wow, thats weird.
- espn.com


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

PS. I feel sorry for LeBron... Wade won a title, Melo is closer now... hes stuck.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Mateo said:


> They'll both drop a little bit. Iverson actually only averages 22 FGAs per game, Anthony 24. That's 46, which leaves 30 - 40 for the rest of the players. Of which who is a scorer exactly? Smith.... Camby and Boykins sort of.. that's about it.


Umm according to this:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...d=N&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=3&splitDD=All Teams

AI average 24.4 and Melo 24: both tops in the league. That's around 48-49 shots a game. Smith, Camby, and Boykins all average around 10 game a too. So aa just five players if they don't drop would average around 80 shots a game which is ar ound what Denver shoots now.

I don't see how since AI will be the guy with the responsibilites to set the offense and dribble (ballhandling isn't exactly JR SMiths or Melo's strenghts) that to make this work his shots won't significantly go down


----------



## motimeabg (May 15, 2006)

HB said:


> Cause it was unecessary. No need to attack the poster. Bud Boy FWIW is a very good poster.



that quotes universal, not really aimed at him


----------



## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

I don't think this will work out for them, they will regret this, especially in a few years


----------



## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

man, the nugz came out the winners in this deal by a landslide. they didnt really give up much. this is why the East has sucked so much for years, cuz of trades like these


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

How does the West starting 5 look now?


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Gio305 said:


> man, the nugz came out the winners in this deal by a landslide. they didnt really give up much. this is why the East has sucked so much for years, cuz of trades like these


I won't call Nuggets the winner yet. They just bluffed by betting 60 million dollars.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Gio305 said:


> man, the nugz came out the winners in this deal by a landslide. they didnt really give up much. this is why the East has sucked so much for years, cuz of trades like these


Yeah kind of stupid that Philly doesn't at least get a lottery pick out of this


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

The 2nd player with AI is Ivan McFarlin going to the Nuggets, courtesey of nba.com


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

Wow...AI and Kmart on the same team. If I'm George Karl I'm worrying how coachable this team's gonna be. I hope AI doesn't have the offcourt problems in Denver that he did in Philly. He also needs to look for shots less and become the playmaker that Andre Miller was. Something tells me that if the incident in MSG didn't happen, this trade wouldn't have gone down.


----------



## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

mjm1 said:


> If I'm KG, I'd be going down to McHales' office right about now.
> 
> *AI in powder blue and gold, what a sight that'll be.*


lol man thats gonna suck


----------



## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

MAS RipCity said:


> This team to going to go into major turmoil...just wait. 3 HUGE egos on the court at the same time(jr ai melo) and only 1 ball...it won't be pretty.


But it's worked before!!










Wait...never mind. :sadbanana:


----------



## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

23isback said:


> *I hope AI doesn't have the offcourt problems in Denver that he did in Philly.*


i doubt it. i dont think there isnt much happening in Denver compared to Philly. plus, weve all seen how matured iverson has been these last few years


----------



## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

Steez said:


> PS. I feel sorry for LeBron... Wade won a title, Melo is closer now... hes stuck.


I don't think that's really the case. It's probably about the same or maybe even easier for LeBron's ill-outfitted Cavs squad to advance a round in the Leastern Conference as it is for an AI-Melo Nuggets to advance a round in the West. I don't see either getting to the Finals.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Umm according to this:
> http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...d=N&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=3&splitDD=All Teams
> 
> AI average 24.4 and Melo 24: both tops in the league. That's around 48-49 shots a game. Smith, Camby, and Boykins all average around 10 game a too. So aa just five players if they don't drop would average around 80 shots a game which is ar ound what Denver shoots now.
> ...


Sorry, I guess my math was wrong on Iverson (think i divided by 17 for some reason).

Of course the shots are going to drop a bit. That's obvious just by the fact that Iverson takes more shots than Andre Miller and Joe Smith. So either the individual shots have to drop a little bit or the team needs to take more total shots, or both. Probably both.

I disagree that Iverson will take significantly fewer shots, though. I don't think 3 or 4 fewer shots (because I don't honestly ever see the day where Iverson is taking less than 20 shots a game) is a significant difference.


----------



## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> Yeah kind of stupid that Philly doesn't at least get a lottery pick out of this


didnt they get 2 1st round picks?


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Gio305 said:


> didnt they get 2 1st round picks?


Yeah, Denver's and Dallas'. Two picks in the mid to high 20s.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Gio305 said:


> didnt they get 2 1st round picks?


Well they will have there own lottery pick and then two from Denver which I believe are Denvers' and Dallas's (both non-lottery as of now)


----------



## supermati (Mar 28, 2005)

They can always trade both and get a higher one.
And maybe the draft is deep enough to still get good people.
Look at Tony Parker, Josh Howard..


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Mateo said:


> Sorry, I guess my math was wrong on Iverson (think i divided by 17 for some reason).
> 
> Of course the shots are going to drop a bit. That's obvious just by the fact that Iverson takes more shots than Andre Miller and Joe Smith. So either the individual shots have to drop a little bit or the team needs to take more total shots, or both. Probably both.
> 
> I disagree that Iverson will take significantly fewer shots, though. I don't think 3 or 4 fewer shots (because I don't honestly ever see the day where Iverson is taking less than 20 shots a game) is a significant difference.


 4 shots a game for a guy like Iverson is significant but for this team to be succesful it's going to have to drop around 18 (again the Laker example is a good one with Kobe getting 18 and Shaq about 20). 
Sure Denver's pace will be faster then the Lakers but the improved teammates should also lead AI to find people on the break rather then sitting in halfcourt sets trying to break people down individually and chucking a shot. 

Melo's shots will also fall slightly but this will be more about Iverson as right now again who else can play PG on this team? Boykins already plays like a SG and Melo is not a great ballhandler and is TO prone. IMO, to make this work it won't be so much what Melo does to change as I think he is pretty good off the ball and is a finisher but what AI does. Iverson going to have make biggest changes


----------



## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> Well they will have there own lottery pick and then two from Denver which I believe are Denvers' and Dallas's (both non-lottery as of now)


well, if the Sixers end up drafting good young talented players(thats a big IF), then in the long run its good.

The nugz in the other hand, are going for the title now. reminds me when Shaq went to miami. a veteran superstar coupled with a young superstar. and we all know what happenened with Miami.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

the only thing that sucks about Zeke being in the league is that I can't go on any "billy king is hte worst GM in sports" rants.


----------



## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Good deal for both sides, IMO. 76ers are gonna be young....


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Gio305 said:


> well, if the Sixers end up drafting good young talented players(thats a big IF), then in the long run its good.
> 
> The nugz in the other hand, are going for the title now. reminds me when Shaq went to miami. a veteran superstar coupled with a young superstar. and we all know what happenened with Miami.


Shaq is a bit different than Iverson and he didn't have to go through the Western Conference playoff bracket plus the Heat are the worst champion in the last 2 decades possibly ever.


----------



## motimeabg (May 15, 2006)

"A man who views the nba at 20 000 posts the same as he did at 1 posts has wasted 19 999 posts of his life"


ye ye


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I think Denver matches up well with SA and Dallas however, I give them a good chance to beat either in 7 games if Camby, Iverson and Melo are healthy. Don't think they match up too well with Phoenix, especially since Phoenix is stacked just like Denver, still would want to avoid them, better play an easy one like Houston or whoever gets #8.
If I am San Antonio I am scared.. Camby matches up well with Duncan, Iverson with Parker and Iverson has a history of giving the Spurs trouble like Marbury when he was on the Suns, on the other hand Iverson has his lowest point average against Phoenix if I remember right he averages like under 20 when playing Phoenix in his career.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Amareca said:


> I think Denver matches up well with SA and Dallas however, I give them a good chance to beat either in 7 games if Camby, Iverson and Melo are healthy. Don't think they match up too well with Phoenix, especially since Phoenix is stacked just like Denver, still would want to avoid them, better play an easy one like Houston or whoever gets #8.
> If I am San Antonio I am scared.. Camby matches up well with Duncan, Iverson with Parker and Iverson has a history of giving the Spurs trouble like Marbury when he was on the Suns, on the other hand Iverson has his lowest point average against Phoenix if I remember right he averages like under 20 when playing Phoenix in his career.


Amareca, ladies and gentlemen. :clap2:


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

xray said:


> Amareca, ladies and gentlemen. :clap2:


It's true though, Iverson has like the highest scoring average of all NBA players against San Antonio even when Marbury used to light them up.
Against the Suns Iverson has his worst scoring average, they repeat it every broadcast how Iverson always struggled against them.
Plus Nash usually owns Iverson big time, last season he had a triple double at halftime against Iverson in one game.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Amareca said:


> It's true though, Iverson has like the highest scoring average of all NBA players against San Antonio even when Marbury used to light them up.
> Against the Suns Iverson has his worst scoring average, they repeat it every broadcast how Iverson always struggled against them.


Good point - but I think it will be interesting how Denver gels as a team though - individual records may pale in comparison to how they're structured together.

We'll see.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Amareca said:


> Shaq is a bit different than Iverson and he didn't have to go through the Western Conference playoff bracket plus the Heat are the worst champion in the last 2 decades possibly ever.



well we didnt have to go through a juggernaut like the Suns, but we did beat the Pistons and Mavs....:lol:

I dont know- Last year had no team head and shoulders above the rest like it was in the Lakers/Bulls and somewhat the Spurs dynasties. I think we are going to see a lot of different champs in the coming years, as so many teams are capable of going on a roll at the right time now (this year the Mavs/Spurs/Suns/Denver/Pistons/Heat all have people who think they could get it done)

as for AI/Carmelo and the rest- this team is extremely talented. I dont think they could be labeled as good as the great teams in the west until we see how they do as a team, but these guys have talent at every position


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> well we didnt have to go through a juggernaut like the Suns, but we did beat the Pistons and Mavs....:lol:


Harsh.... very harsh indeed...

Well deserved though....


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

this team wont be nothing special...Anthony takes a million shots, so does A.I,they will conflict sooner than later...


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## PFortyy (May 31, 2006)

or ai will accept his role as 2nd scorer and become more of a pass first point guard


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

xray said:


> But it's worked before!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's what a woman can do.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

Amareca said:


> Shaq is a bit different than Iverson and he didn't have to go through the Western Conference playoff bracket plus the Heat are the worst champion in the last 2 decades possibly ever.


sadly, whatever you said, is completely irrelevant to the subject :chill:


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Too bad it'll be a month or so before we can see that particular pairing.


Yep, and it'll be against Yao and T-Mac... :uhoh:

I'm very looking forward to seeing Iverson again, I hope (know) he wont disappoint


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Don't really think this propels them to championship caliber. So in my view Sixers got the best of this trade IF they can get something good out of those couple of picks. The question for the Sixers becomes whether or not they can get out of rebuilding mode. A team like the Spurs tore up their roster for one year and picked up Duncan. But a team like the Blazers have been getting high draft picks and salary room and been in "rebuilding mode" for a while now. It remains to be seen what King can do to bring this franchise back to respectability. As far as the Nuggs are concerned. I really don't understand trading for AI when they have a record like they do. They are fairly middle of the pack, so they won't be championship, but they won't be getting a high draft pick either (well now they definitely won't) And as a Kings fan let me tell you, there is nothing worse, and I mean NOTHING that being in mediocrity. Either be in rebuild mode, or be competing. The middle ground stinks.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

*Fool's Gold*

This trade makes Denver a contender _on paper_. But then again, the last couple of Team USA dream teams have been the best teams ... on paper. 

AI will be able to co-exist with Melo, to some moderate success. But unfortunately, I think both players are at their best when they have that alpha, top dog mentality. Both will try to be good teammates at first and defer, but this will only pull down, rather than elevate, both players. 

Simply put, you can't have 3 me-first athletes (JR Smith, Melo, and AI) on one team and expect to win a championship. More team-oriented organizations like the Suns and Mavs will eat them alive in the playoffs.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

Zero Hero said:


> Don't really think this propels them to championship caliber. So in my view Sixers got the best of this trade IF they can get something good out of those couple of picks. The question for the Sixers becomes whether or not they can get out of rebuilding mode. A team like the Spurs tore up their roster for one year and picked up Duncan. But a team like the Blazers have been getting high draft picks and salary room and been in "rebuilding mode" for a while now. It remains to be seen what King can do to bring this franchise back to respectability. As far as the Nuggs are concerned. I really don't understand trading for AI when they have a record like they do. They are fairly middle of the pack, so they won't be championship, but they won't be getting a high draft pick either (well now they definitely won't) And as a Kings fan let me tell you, there is nothing worse, and I mean NOTHING that being in mediocrity. Either be in rebuild mode, or be competing. The middle ground stinks.


well, you have to see what Kings record is as a GM. all i hear is crap about him. so if i go by this, he could end up trading those picks for peanuts or probably draft a bunch retards. who knows. its too much uncertainty on the Sixers side. 
as for the Nugz, they can definetly make it to the Finals with their lineup, provided they all coexist with AI. the team is pretty much intact with the addition of Iverson. thats why i think the Nugz got the best of the trade.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Terrible trade for the Sixers. AI is a mega-star. And you get Andre Miller and low first rounders in return? What the hell.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

Chan said:


> Terrible trade for the Sixers. AI is a mega-star. And you get Andre Miller and low first rounders in return? What the hell.


exactly my point


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

What did you expect them to get?


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> What did you expect them to get?


at least a subscription to ESPN magazine


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Amareca said:


> I think Denver matches up well with SA and Dallas however, I give them a good chance to beat either in 7 games if Camby, Iverson and Melo are healthy. Don't think they match up too well with Phoenix, especially since Phoenix is stacked just like Denver, still would want to avoid them, better play an easy one like Houston or whoever gets #8.
> If I am San Antonio I am scared.. Camby matches up well with Duncan, Iverson with Parker and Iverson has a history of giving the Spurs trouble like Marbury when he was on the Suns, on the other hand Iverson has his lowest point average against Phoenix if I remember right he averages like under 20 when playing Phoenix in his career.


Suns vs Nuggets... I wonder, who's going to defend A.I?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Zero Hero said:


> Don't really think this propels them to championship caliber. So in my view Sixers got the best of this trade IF they can get something good out of those couple of picks. The question for the Sixers becomes whether or not they can get out of rebuilding mode. A team like the Spurs tore up their roster for one year and picked up Duncan. But a team like the Blazers have been getting high draft picks and salary room and been in "rebuilding mode" for a while now. It remains to be seen what King can do to bring this franchise back to respectability. As far as the Nuggs are concerned. I really don't understand trading for AI when they have a record like they do. They are fairly middle of the pack, so they won't be championship, but they won't be getting a high draft pick either (well now they definitely won't) And as a Kings fan let me tell you, there is nothing worse, and I mean NOTHING that being in mediocrity. Either be in rebuild mode, or be competing. The middle ground stinks.


the spurs didn't tear up their roster. david robinson got hurt (so did elliott) and they just sucked, and got lucky in the lottery (the celts were the ones trying to position for duncan). tearing up your team isn't exactly a strategy with a great track record, but the sixers weren't going anywhere as is anyway, and they had minimized ai's trade value (which wasn't so high to begin with).


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

t1no said:


> Suns vs Nuggets... I wonder, who's going to defend A.I?


forget that, who in the Suns team wants to defend anybody?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Amareca said:


> If I am San Antonio I am scared


Doubt it. The Nuggets matched up with the Spurs before, but only because Melo can bully Bowen in the post. They still don't have the spot shooters to make that work though. This year, they've completely changed things around, and teams that have one guy doing the majority of dribbling/scoring (which will be Iverson), as well as run and gun teams (which the Nuggets have been this year pushing the tempo), don't match up with the Spurs well. Their defense is too tight to let one perimeter player beat them, and their transition defense in the playoffs is usually top notch. If the Nuggets stick to that formula with Iverson and the fast break game, they don't really match up well with the Spurs. And really, last year they matched up well, had the advantage of taking on a hobbled Duncan, and still got beat in 5 games (and 4 straight). 

The playoffs is a different beast. Iverson has never faced the Spurs in the playoffs obviously.


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## hugeeug (Feb 9, 2006)

IMO denver won't have a very good start with iverson, but I believe if used the right way(which in denver's system, shouldn't be hard), that they definitely have the talent to compete with anyone.

Problem is this. They are the #2 offensive team in terms of ppg for a reason. You can't just have any team in the league play at this pace successfully. Part of the reason they were so successful playing such a fast paced game was Miller. Now that he's gone, who's going to distribute to everyone else, who's going to throw all those alleys and easy lobs inside?

Naturally, ai's offense will offset much of that, but don't expect them to be the same type of offensive team without miller. Your talking about a top 3 assist man in the league, and former assist leader. 

In a way, its like taking nash away from phoenix and replacing him with iverson. Naturally now nash is superior to miller in everyway, but its the same concept. The suns aren't the suns without nash, and denver won't be quite the same without miller.

That said, if karl can find a way this season if not next season to have everyone play at their maximum ability, I don't see any reason why denver can't compete for a championship. You have the 2 top scorers int he league, one of the leagues best rebounders/defensive bigs, great role players in najera/evans, and a talented yet streaky shooter/slasher in jr smith.

If used at maximum efficiency(imo its key), they can and will be dangerous. No doubt about it.


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## Sunsfan81 (Apr 17, 2006)

Denver might be improved, but they're still not better than the Spurs, Suns, Mavericks, or even the Jazz.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

t1no said:


> Suns vs Nuggets... I wonder, who's going to defend A.I?


Damn, good point if I were coach D'antoni I would give marcus banks a shot. Banks is a pest as a defender and I would think could hold AI to maybe only 30? ;]


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

t1no said:


> Suns vs Nuggets... I wonder, who's going to defend A.I?


Nash defends him well and so does Barbosa.

Like I already said Iverson averages less than 20 ppg on his career against Phoenix, worst of all teams in the NBA.

The Nuggets matched up better with Phoenix with Miller, I think with Iverson they match up better with the rest but worse with Phoenix.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Give the trophy to the Suns already! Nobody can matchup with them.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I could see the Nuggets now winning the NBA championship with AI and Melo pairing up.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Aurelino said:


> Give the trophy to the Suns already! Nobody can matchup with them.




.........Pause NOT!


(I had to throw some Borat in there lol)


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## neoxsupreme (Oct 31, 2005)

Damn. Do the Nuggets ever have a potent 1/2/3 offensive combination. 2 great players on a team together.


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## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

Too bad it was Andre Miller and not K-Mart who got traded.


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## JMES HOME (May 22, 2006)

JPSeraph said:


> Too bad it was Andre Miller and not K-Mart who got traded.


philly would have never done the trade if Kmart was involved


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## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

JMES HOME said:


> philly would have never done the trade if Kmart was involved


I guess even Billy King isn't that stupid!


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## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

Denver Nuggets, my new favorite team


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

JPSeraph said:


> I guess even Billy King isn't that stupid!


Maybe Denver didn't offer K-Mart. Remember King was stupid enough to take Webber. Webber makes twice the money than K-Mart.


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## The_Legend_23 (Dec 10, 2005)

Talk about a Trio of Iverson,Anthony, and JR Smith. And if Nene and Marcus Camby both stay healthy, this is going to be one hell of a team to beat.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Why is JR rated so high suddenly? I will wait a year or two to really consider him a good player.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Iverson isnt playing against the Suns. sucks but oh well.


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## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

DuMa said:


> Iverson isnt playing against the Suns. sucks but oh well.


When does he start then?


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Wow, this is damn near as bad as the Carter trade. You're trying to tell me that the best offer King could get was a good guard, and over-the-hill forward, and some picks? No decent young players? Nothing?

Man...


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## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

P-Dub34 said:


> Wow, this is damn near as bad as the Carter trade. You're trying to tell me that the best offer King could get was a good guard, and over-the-hill forward, and some picks? No decent young players? Nothing?
> 
> Man...


Em, look at the upcoming Draft and how Philly are going along.


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## PFortyy (May 31, 2006)

Husstla said:


> Em, look at the upcoming Draft and how Philly are going along.


i see alot of young talent in philly next season


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## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

ronna_meade21 said:


> i see alot of young talent in philly next season


Exactly, this year it isn't going to get any better for them. This trade was done looking into next year.


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## JMES HOME (May 22, 2006)

philly might as well tank now,, they wont make the playoff,, try and get greg oden. Kevin Durant also looking pretty good.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

good fit for iverson if ever there were. denver has more than enough time to mesh now, which is very important. iverson isn't being thrown onto a pile here- he'll have a chance to grow into a comfortable role with the nugs. they should be firing on all cannons come april.

but i didn't come to write about that.

i understand this is an argument that i'll never win but i find it troubling- very _troubling_- that this deal is avoiding rape in the collective voice of the journalism community. i'm not saying it deserves rape- i would never say that- but given the abuse harboured in toronto for vince carter, as well as innumerable other markets for similar players, i don't get how philly appears to have earned a free pass here.

honestly, these two first-rounders are (imo) way overblown. the fact that their positions in the first round have avoided publication almost everywhere except draft web sites (look it up- i can't find them listed anywhere... as if it's not important) is puzzling. amazing, really. all we see is, "philly gets two first-round picks in one of the deepest drafts in recent memory." 

those picks are denver's and dallas'. those are two bona fide championship contenders as of this morning. that means they're certainly not lottery picks, and chances are they'll come around _after_ most of said "depth" has been dissolved on draft night in june. i think their value at the moment is vastly overrated, at least in relation to the draft picks acquired in other recent trades.

what's more, reports suggest that the sixers have acquired capspace with this transaction. beats me. they save cash with joe smith's expiring albatross, sure, but they're still well over the cap- hell, they're still well over the luxury tax threshold- so i don't understand how that side of the trade could be seen as immediately valuable to sixer fans, either.

honestly, i'm not condemning billy king's move. this gives the sixers some room to rebuild on the fly- at least the draft picks come this year. but how he's managed to avoid the same criticism sprouted in the direction of other gm's who made similar deals is nearly impossible for me to understand. philly's value in this deal, for me, is nothing immediate. in fact, considering how long it takes for most draft picks to develop in the modern era, its value won't be witnessed for years- and iverson will presumably be caught in the middle of some highly publicized playoff wars in the meantime.

to sum up, with respect to this story, the reports i've seen to date have been terribly off-target. there's no alternative way to put it. it's not even a matter of my opinion- or anyone else's opinion- it's a matter of mistruths being fed into the minds of the public today. it's bizarre stuff imo. why?

i do find it troubling.

peace


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

---


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

---


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

---


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Em, look at the upcoming Draft and how Philly are going along.


Em, the only lotto pick Phila will be getting is their own. One of the Nugs' picks will be a late first rounder and I'm uncertain where the other came from. Now, tell me how many great players have been drafted 20-30 in the last ten years, strong draft or not. In addition, if you're telling me that there's no way the Sixers could have gotten some decent youth, picks, and still tanked, well, I don't believe you.

As for this trade "looking into next year," Miller will likely be past his prime when this team is ready to compete for something of substance and Joe Smith, well...is Joe Smith. If this is Billy King's idea of rebuilding for the future, I don't know what to say. The only thing that can save this team now is a Top 3 pick (which they'll get), a pick that they would have had either way. You're acting like Denver traded them a Top 5 pick or something.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Even with a good GM, a late draft pick is 60-70% luck. I'll agree that those picks don't mean much. The other offers must have been terrible. For example, I wonder if Minnesota even offered Foye.


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## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

It's almost as though they're acting like Iverson is worthless.


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

JPSeraph said:


> It's almost as though they're acting like Iverson is worthless.


his contract, age, and attitude makes him a difficult sell to most teams in this league.


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## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

Agreed with the first two, but the deal Philly struck was mediocre. It was a fire sale, let's not act like they stole two lottery picks.


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## melo4life (Jun 5, 2006)

ive never seen ivan mcfarlin play but hopefully he becomes good because a 6"8 rookie cant really be that bad, reasonable height, someone to back up melo in a couple of years maybe


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## melo4life (Jun 5, 2006)

in iversons first game he did pretty well, 22 points, 10 assists


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I know they lost, but I liked what I saw out there from the Nugs tonight. Honestly...I can see very easily how he and Melo will fit together. And I think not only will an already exciting team to watch get more exciting...I think they could very well hoist the title this year. I thought Karl would go mad by now, but I think he's had enough experience with these sort of situations to finally know what to do.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the Nuggets as NBA champions this year, after seeing only one game of the team with Iverson, and a loss at that.

Even without Melo this is far and away the best team AI has ever played with, and possibly the best coach he's ever played for, aside from John Thompson.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> I know they lost, but I liked what I saw out there from the Nugs tonight. Honestly...I can see very easily how he and Melo will fit together. And I think not only will an already exciting team to watch get more exciting...I think they could very well hoist the title this year. I thought Karl would go mad by now, but I think he's had enough experience with these sort of situations to finally know what to do.
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the Nuggets as NBA champions this year, after seeing only one game of the team with Iverson, and a loss at that.
> 
> Even without Melo this is far and away the best team AI has ever played with, and possibly the best coach he's ever played for, aside from John Thompson.


Iverson's never even had a teammate the caliber of Marcus Camby. Ever. Much less Melo + the rest. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them win a championship this year either. The Nuggets' biggest issue in their past, especially in the playoffs, has always been finding another scorer to relieve Melo. That issue's been apparently resolved.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

I don't know. 

Iverson was a top three point guard out there last night. Any Nuggets fan will tell you that the halfcourt offense flowed better tonight than in any other game this season, just because of Iverson. The dark side to that is the fact that this team missed more open shots last night than any other time this season. Obviously, this will change with J.R. and Carmelo back. Probably like anyone else who watched this game, I am having a hard time imagining how the hell teams are going to manage Iverson and Carmelo on the court at the same time, especially if Iverson does what he did last night - shoot 15-20 great shots, get in the lane, and get people wide open looks. Add in J.R., Camby, and Nene, and this whole situation makes no sense. It's unbelievable. 

That said, this team has issues. The defense is atrocious, and I'm suspicious of Karl. If we can play any defense at all and avoid serious internal problems, we can go somewhere in the playoffs. But I'm not holding my breath.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Spriggan said:


> Iverson's never even had a teammate the caliber of Marcus Camby. Ever.


Mutumbo 2001.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Mateo said:


> Mutumbo 2001.


Oh yeah, true. I forgot about Mutumbo. That was, coincidentally, the year the Sixers went to the Finals. They actually did have a solid team around Iverson that year - a bunch of defenders and rebounders, which is pretty much what you need.


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