# So Where Do We Go From Here?



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

We're closing in on the final days of August and I got to ask you all, what final touches do you believe is needed by the Knicks before the commencement of the 2007-2008 NBA regular season?

When the 2006-2007 season came to a close, I noted that the team needed to improve 4 key flaws:
*1.) An additional ball-mover in the starting lineup*
I felt perhaps the biggest issue the Knicks had last year (which resulted in so many turnovers) was the lack of an additional passer in our starting lineup that could promote ball movement and hence better opportunities. Not having this sort of player resulted in many situations where our offense was stagnant and resulted in to much one on one player that teams could clearly defend. This was the biggest difference between the first and second unit and why the second unit was responsible for so many of our comebacks and victories. We have excellent offensive players on both units and it is time we utilize their full abilities.

*2.) Lack of production from the forward positions in our starting lineup.*
Channing Frye and Jared Jefferies sucked for us last year. Combined, their numbers and effort were not worthy of one regular starter, let alone two. This year that issue appears to have been improved upon with the addition of Zach Randolph; who surprising is alot more versatile than I once thought after reviewing some game footage of him. I'm still a little skeptical about the Randolph-Curry tandem but anything should be an improvement over what Frye provided for us last year. I'm still hesitant about the 3 spot because I feel Chandler is still to young; Balkman is still a little raw; and Jefferies was just to horrible last season.

*3.) Perimeter Defense.*
To many guys had great games against us either shooting the ball with range or driving for layups. Although Curry and Frye could be blamed for not properly rotating, they were adequate defenders in the post. We still need an agile defender at the 3 that can defend faster opponents. Richardson and Marbury played solid defense last year so I feel the improvement should come at the small forward spot.

*4.)Lack of consistency.*
No consistent rotation, far to many injuries and inconsistent play really hurt us. Adding more capable players to our roster has reduced the effect of injuries and inconsistent play to our team but has only multiplied the issue with our rotation.


Of those 4 flaws, I believe only 1 was addressed and that was production from the forward position. Like I said earlier, Zach has the ability to mesh with the existing players we already have on the floor and do so with no sort of hinderance to his own game. He's a left handed player that operates on the right block and vice versa with Curry. This means that neither should get in the way of the other on the offensive end of the floor since their comfort zones are on opposite sides of the floor; Zach also offers a much more versatile offense game and an adept ability to face up and shoot the ball with range. Zach has even shown some signs of improving his court awareness last season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVJvTCGduXg

Hopefully with some conditioning, he'd be capable of better defending quicker post players and more importantly capable of rotating on defense. If he does this, we'll be fine and a deadly team next year.

I believe their is only one important thing left to do and that is to reduce our roster from 17 players to 15. I'd hate to cut anyway because a majority of the games that we have who are not starting could very well start or be 2nd tier players on another team. Even if it means trading them for a 2nd round pick, I'd prefer doing that than having to eat their salaries and lose their services. 

James Posey is a restricted free agent and I feel he could be a guy we could target that could help solve a few of the issues we have. He's a better ball mover than I had first anticipated, plays excellent perimeter defense against the more mobile offensive players and his production is fairly consistent. In addition to that, James also brings veteran championship experience to our young team that will allow the young guys like Balkman, Nichols and Chandler to hone their game for a little while longer.

How about cutting Jerome James; trading Fred Jones, Dan Dickau, and Randolph Morris to the Heat for James Posey, a 1st round pick and 2nd round pic; trade Jared Jefferies and Malik Rose to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz; and sign Rafael Araujo? I'd send Demetris overseas until we figure out a couple more ways to clear up roster space and playing time.

*What ways would you improve the team?** What do you think we should do?*


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

First, imo, we need to find roster space for Nichols. In case you didn't see much of the summer league games, he is a very solid defender, a GREAT shooter, moves well without the ball, and is a surprising passer. Currently, as composed, this team is not going to be a great ball movement team. Curry and/or Randolph figure to get touches every time down court. Curry is a very poor passer and Youtube clips notwithstanding, ZAch is fairly poor as well. We are going to have to fight like hell not to have the paint turn into a real black hole. Even with a ball movement type of guy (and its not clear if you mean a passer or slasher)it won't make much of a difference. We already have both types but our O is going to be Zach and Eddie and table scraps for the rest. The biggest area that needs to be addressed is defense. That will be up to the coaches since there isn't ANYBODY on this team that is incapable. My hope is that IT will not hesitate to pull guys that don't play hard most/all of the time. So, in review, get Nichols on the roster, play defense, and let the team have a chance to gel.

Btw, you will notice that Watkins made the Kings roster. I told you he was a great gamble for a second round pick. Too bad we couldn't have gotten another pick in there somewhere. He would have been a great stash in Europe guy for a year or two. I'm not saying you disagreed with me but there were plenty of folks here that did.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I actually like the roster as it is now, I think its a sure playoff team and could catcha break or 2 and even be a 50 win team.

my only real points of contention as far as things that could be realistically done at the moment ,

1. is a 3 who solidfies that spot on the roster and moves Q to shooting guard or if Q gets hurt have a player that can replace most of what richardson provides.

2. a legit backup 2guard...the only one on the roster is fred jones and with his ending deal and limited game i just have a hard time penciling him in as a knick in novemeber. 

3. a real back up center...one with more than 44 career minutes in the nba, you just cant count on jerome james , after 2 years other arrangements have to be made.

Guys that could do this that are gettable at the 3 are AK-47 artest and darius miles (if he can be healthy ...and there are various differing reports on how good his rehab is going) all three guys have their good points and bad points and cost different amounts as to their trade value but all three can help shore up an otherwise porous defense.

miles would likely cost no more than malik rose ...and even then I have my doubts zeke would do it since he reportedly chose to get jones and dickau instead of miles even theough darius was a player the _blazers_ wanted to include...if miles cant come back he has actually been gone enough for the knicks to medically retire him, like they did houston...but then of course you just gave malik away for nothing...and if he lingers in the league but cant really contribute his contract is longer than rose's by a year.

artest is by far as a player the best choice but he also should costs the most and with Petrie not wanting to give Artest away he will at least cost 2 young players and the ending deals in dickau and jones, possibly a pick thrown in because Zeke appears dead set against giving balkman or lee...which personally to me seems odd unless he plans on dealing wilson chandler instead...there would just be too many 3's on the roster and the young guys need at least garbage time to develop.I understand Artest is kind of nutty at times but thats the coach's problem , not mine its his job to make it work.

AK-47 is a good fit because he can be an all league defender who specializes in helping in the paint, boozer and okur dont block shots any better than zach and eddy do...and the jazz defense on the whole wasn't much better with pretty much the same flaws defensively. to me the main difference is they have a game changing defender getting major minutes and the knicks dont. he can definitely be had for the 2 expirings and a couple of young guys .

a deal for a good 3 would probably fix the back up 2 issue by sliding Q over to starting 2 and JC as his backup, but if not they could always get in on the pietrus sweepstakes who is a very good defender who can spot up and hit treys.

as for backup center , morris might very well be capable , but if he isn't it means going with jerome james who is injured too much , lee , jeffries and rose who are too small be put there everynight...if they cant get a 3 or a back up 2 they might want to inquire about brendan heywood and use some of their assets there, he is an excellent defender who can finish around the rim.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Differ on a couple of points*

IMO
1) Q is not a realistic choice at the 2. He can play it offensively but cannot handle decent shooting guards on defense. SF is another matter.

2) Miles is poison. Never. no way. no how.

3) You under-value AK-47. No way you get him for a couple of young guys and a couple of expirings. I believe he has a mammoth contract, as well. It would take Lee in any deal and I wouldn't do that.

4) I think Nichols could have a valuable role on this team as a swing guy. I wouldn't want to throw him into the fire from the get-go but he could be brought along to be a real cog by years end.

5) Chandler may provide the SF you are looking for. I'd give this roster a chance before trading FOR any player. Trading to reduce the roster is OK, though.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Differ on a couple of points*



alphaorange said:


> IMO
> 1) Q is not a realistic choice at the 2. He can play it offensively but cannot handle decent shooting guards on defense. SF is another matter.
> 
> 2) Miles is poison. Never. no way. no how.
> ...


1. all he really needs is to shed some pounds , his post up days virtually gone on the knicks with eddy and zach down low so he really doesn't need it anymore, if artest can still guard 2's and he lets his weight get up to 270+ there is no reason Richardson cant .

2.Miles is absolutely not poison , there is nothing to indicate that he is even a bad person , he has history with richardson, Lee and curry and is good friends with at the very least Curry and richardson, as recently as 3 years ago he was widely considered amonst the league's best defenders with his combination of help defense and was close to a man to man stopper...and really its not up to any1 to make it work but the coaches and miles, its one of those very low risk moves , because if he starts up with trouble until he actually plays a regular season game the knicks can medically retire him , with or without his consent, like they did Houston...I'd put it on them to make it work , 2 seasons ago LB wanted and got Qyntel woods who by all accounts is a much worst person and he actually worked out fine while he was here...Woods also wouldn't be a bad idea .

I'm not really one for the personality cancers/poison arguments , these are all grown men , as long as they settle down and do their job there shouldn't be a problem and if there is Thomas is also the GM he can get rid of them before any1 even knows there is a situation.


3.http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,665194505,00.html


> RUMOR MILL: Asked about the Jazz and starting small forward Andrei Kirilenko during a recent online chat, ESPN.com NBA writer Chad Ford dropped this little nugget: "I heard they almost moved Kirilenko at the trade deadline to the Raptors for Mo Peterson and change."


as a guy who avg. 9 and 6 last season and clashed with his coaches over shots with his massive contract he actually has very low trade value comparitive to his talent , same as artest but for different reasons. an ending contract and some decent youth is probably more than they can expect in coming years as AK-47's contract continues to grow, especially if his production doesn't.

4&5. i would like to see both chandler and nichols get some PT in the D league in the beginning of the season while the rotation gets sorted out ...Zeke appears to have no use for the D-league, as long as JC and richardson are healthy there is little need for either with mardy collins and balkman able to provide a defensive spark to augment their(jamal's and Q's) shooting and both collins and balkman have more seasoning and the team probably shouldn't risk early season wins or development...if there is no deal to clear the glut at the 3 its unlikely they get more than garbage time all season.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

alphaorange said:


> First, imo, we need to find roster space for Nichols. In case you didn't see much of the summer league games, he is a very solid defender, a GREAT shooter, moves well without the ball, and is a surprising passer. Currently, as composed, this team is not going to be a great ball movement team. Curry and/or Randolph figure to get touches every time down court. Curry is a very poor passer and Youtube clips notwithstanding, ZAch is fairly poor as well. We are going to have to fight like hell not to have the paint turn into a real black hole. Even with a ball movement type of guy (and its not clear if you mean a passer or slasher)it won't make much of a difference. We already have both types but our O is going to be Zach and Eddie and table scraps for the rest. The biggest area that needs to be addressed is defense. That will be up to the coaches since there isn't ANYBODY on this team that is incapable. My hope is that IT will not hesitate to pull guys that don't play hard most/all of the time. So, in review, get Nichols on the roster, play defense, and let the team have a chance to gel.
> 
> Btw, you will notice that Watkins made the Kings roster. I told you he was a great gamble for a second round pick. Too bad we couldn't have gotten another pick in there somewhere. He would have been a great stash in Europe guy for a year or two. I'm not saying you disagreed with me but there were plenty of folks here that did.


I caught all 5 summer league games and must give you kudos for noticing Demetris much earlier than most did. I believe he's personally the real deal and part of that is reliant on the fact that he is a supremely confident player. He carries himself with a particular swagger that I feel can make him a much better player than most give him credit for. I just wonder whether sitting on the bench for as long as I suspect would either hurt that swagger or fuel the fire. In Europe, I feel that he'd definately get the time to refine his game and most importantly that touch of cockiness. Maybe I just think into these things to much but it's just my opinion.

We might be a particularly solid passing team but as young as we are, it does not make very much sense to not push the issue; besides, it would have to start from somewhere and what better way to do that than bring in a player to inspire this play. Passing is contagious, just look at the Nets when Jason Kidd got there. I do not recall Richard Jefferson or Kenyon Martin being players with a particularly high court awareness but they both became players that worked pretty well maximizing the potential of that Net team through their ball movement.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to catch any games that Watkins played in. Hopefully I'll eventually get a chance down the line.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> First, imo, we need to find roster space for Nichols


:yes:


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> I actually like the roster as it is now, I think its a sure playoff team and could catcha break or 2 and even be a 50 win team.
> 
> my only real points of contention as far as things that could be realistically done at the moment ,
> 
> ...


I'm starting to come around and actually appreciate the talent we have our roster. This is a major reason you don't see me advocating any sort of sweeping change unless it involves Kobe Bryant. I know we basically feel the same way because of the points we've made. I think we need a 3 and a backup 5 which is the major reason why I suggested acquiring Posey, LaFrentz and Araujo. They help us solve some of the issues we have at those positions and most importantly won't force our hand, dealing one of our younger players for an upgrade.

At the moment, I am extremely high on Ronaldo Balkman, Wilson Chandler and Demetris Nichols. I feel that those 3 could be very solid players in the future and is why I do not feel the need to bring in another starter quality SF long-term. All they need is a temporary stop gap to give them some time to adjust to the league. Enter James Posey. The guy provides the defense we need and an average all-around game. Within a year or two we could ditch him and begin to ease one of the other 3 young guys into that position. Personally, I like Chandler's potential at the position more than Balkman or Nichols. I think Nichols might fit better at the 2 spot and very well could be a starter there.

Raef LaFrentz has been injury prone the past couple years but should be able to handle the garbage minutes behind Curry. He'd be the perfect compliment to either Randolph or Curry because his long range game should help spread the floor. Rafael Araujo fills that same role but adds a pretty impressive defender from what I saw last year in the playoffs as well as a solid rebounder. I like his potential and believe he'd be more than an adequate backup for us in the future.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

> First, imo, we need to find roster space for Nichols


Demetris Nichols SG intinct & NBA body is just right for backup time at the 2 spot to get his defense familiar with NBA 2-competition this season (do not let him go overseas). Morris & Chandler maybe the better player and also deserves some PT this season around January, at the 3 and 5 spot. 


1) At the end of the season Zeke gave us a nice view of Mardy Collins for 10 straight decent 30 MPG performance at the 1 spot (Desire at 1-Spot). With Marbury and Nate also at the 1 spot it's covered this season. 
*C+*
2) Crawford and Nate will share 40 MPG of the 2 (I would give the rest to D.Nichols).
*C+*
3) The Knicks 3-spot is well covered this season with a miraculous change from SF-Q.Richardson, Balkman and Jeffeies will be the backup (with all the garbage time at the 3-spot taken by the Rookie Chandler). Q.Rich should only defend the 2-spot. Knick-Fans stop looking for a 20 or 30 point SF! the Knicks 3-spot is straight. 
*B+*
4) The Paint is the Knicks Weak-Spot (4 & 5) Defensively. To make up for a weak defense in the 4 & 5 they will have to outscore the points made in the paint by oponents. The 3-Spot will have to defend the 4-Spot at times. 
*B*5) The Knicks will use 3 players to keep the 5-Spot with offensive pressure: Curry, Zach, and passing Lee. Morris & James will receive some PT at the 5-Spot. Curry & Zach both will have to improve on their previous defensive record this season for the team to have some success. 
*C+*

The scary part of the offseason is comming soon, Isiah will have to make a Trade! 
There are 17 players on the Knick roster. 
With his offseason record I doubt if he is allowed to buyout anyone. 
So he is forced to make another trade this offseason. 
That may be ??????????


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Heading into next season, I'd look to make simple moves to get our roster down to size and attempt to make improvements to some of our main flaws that most tend to agree with. I'd look to move Jared Jefferies, Fred Jones, Dan Dickau and Jerome James back to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz and Darius Miles. I have not been a big fan recently of Darius Miles but he is a pretty talented player when healthy. LaFrentz would help increase the depth and versatility behind Eddy Curry. From the Blazers perspective, they get rid of two players they have tried to include in seperate trades in exchange for expiring contracts and a stop gap at the 3 position until Travis Outlaw or Martell Webster come into their own.

I'd then look to move Darius and cash to the Heat for James Posey and a 2nd round pick. The Heat are in desperate need of some upgrades and receive them in exchange for a guy they are not particularly high on. If Miles can't come back medically then they can easily terminate his contract because he has been out long enough to do so.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

With that particular roster, my rotation and distribution of minutes would look something like this:

*Starters*
Stephon Marbury...PG 30mpg
Quentin Richardson...SG 30mpg (20mpg @SG; 10mpg @SF)
James Posey...SF 25mpg
Zach Randolph...PF 35mpg (25mpg @PF; 10mpg @C)
Eddy Curry...C 35mpg 
*Bench*
Mardy Collins...PG 18mpg
Jamal Crawford...G 30mpg
Ronaldo Balkman...F 13mpg
David Lee...F 25mpg (21mpg @PF; 4mpg @SF)
Malik Rose/Raef LaFrentz/Randolph Morris...C (mpg determined by whose in foul trouble and particular matchups)

This works out well for us in my opinion because it limits the number of players per position depending on how strong we are at those particular position.

At the PG position we have only Marbury and Collins playing. *I'd like to limit this position to only two players in order for players to gain better fimilarity with how the system will operate with those two.* It should help us limit turnovers and help develop better chemistry especially considering those two are the best distributors we have. *Marbury is getting much older and it would be best to start limiting his minutes in order to preserve him for the playoffs, which is the main agenda for the offseason.* Collins is young enough and talented enough to hold down the PG position for an extended amount of time.

At the SG position we limit ourselves to only Quentin Richardson and Jamal Crawford. Again, those players are currenty the best options we have at this particular position so why include anyone else? *Crawford in particular would be strictly just a SG which I believe is another critical step in limiting our turnovers. Him being so herky-jerky helps him be such a unique player but it's also his downfall since he himself does not know what he is about to do and contributes to our high turnover rate.* At the 2 spot the bball is out of his hands as the primary ball handler but the potential still remains for a few carries. *Him being at the 2 spot also allows for him to concentrate on being "Crawford the offensive spark" which is what he truely is most valuable for.*

The 3 spot would be handled by commitee. It is easily our weakest spot so the most effective way of maintaining it would be by presenting different matchups per night to exploit our opponent's weakness. Primarily speaking, the position would be played by James Posey, Quentin Richardson and Ronaldo Balkman. I do not believe chemistry would be a point of emphasis here because none of the aforementioned players would have any sort of ball handling duties, so turnovers should bbe a lack of concern. Minutes definately would not be set in stone, as well as the starting position. At the moment however, I believe James Posey is the best fit for our starting because of his all-around game but I would not be afraid to bench him or even take him out of the rotation to start Ronaldo.

At the PF position I'd focus on playing only Zach Randolph and David Lee. Although Zach has had issues with his health over the course of the past few seasons, he is to vital a building block not to give major minutes to. Unfortunately, doing so would limit David Lee's minutes. In order to give Lee some floor burn, I'd look to move Zach to the 5 position, as Curry's backup, depending on certain matchups. We'd definately be playing small ball but would still remain a solid rebounding team which spells winning basketball. *Doing so would actually give us the opportunity to also run the ball which is what I believe Isiah's main plan of attack is with his bench.* I feel as though he is building a roster where the starters maul the opposing team for several minutes and then a backup unit that would exploit this advantage physically by running the ball up the court; and in the process keep the opponents guessing.

At the 5 position I'd look to play primarily Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph. Considering both big men might have foul trouble during certain games, I'd look to bring in either Malik Rose, Raef LaFrentz or Randolph Morris depending on who works best to our advantage. By and large, I'd keep the position limited to only Curry and Randolph who both present the mauling inside presence and rebounding that is expected of a center.


*Although this rotation leaves out players we are all high on like Demetris Nichols, Nate Robinson and Wilson Chandler, I feel that the main agenda is to win and you only do that by playing your most prepared players. These other players are young and their time should come. I personally believe that with a little polishing, Demetris Nichols and Wilson Chandler will be the future starting 2 and 3 of the Knicks.* *With Marbury considering going overseas, it's only a matter of time before some of his minutes become Robinson's. Until then, I'd let them refine their games and increase their minutes progressively to give them some floor experience.*


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