# Latest on JO to LA



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> The Lakers and Pacers have stalled on trade talks involving the six-time All-Star forward-center because the Lakers do not want to give up both Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom in a swap for O'Neal and power forward Troy Murphy, a source said. The Lakers would also include Kwame Brown in the trade.





> Numerous sources have said O'Neal wants to play in L.A., but the Lakers simply do not want to part with Odom and Bynum to make it work. Lakers officials declined to comment Thursday.





> Odom, 27, averaged 15.9 points, 9.8 rebounds and 4.8 assists last season, one that started strongly for him before being interrupted by knee and shoulder injuries. He underwent surgery last month to repair a torn labrum in his left shoulder, but is expected to return in time for training camp in October.





> Brown, 25, also underwent surgery last month, and will be out several months while recovering from a reconstructive operation on his left ankle. He has one year left on his contract at $9.1 million, which makes him appealing to teams hoping to trim payroll after next season.
> 
> Talks between the Pacers and Lakers could be jump-started again as the June 28 draft draws closer.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...o&coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=1&cset=true

Well, whatever we do, Odom, Brown, and the 19th pick better not be what we get.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...o&coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=1&cset=true
> 
> Well, whatever we do, Odom, Brown, and the 19th pick better not be what we get.


Fine... how about Bynum, Brown, and the 19th pick? :biggrin:


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

Eternal said:


> Fine... how about Bynum, Brown, and the 19th pick? :biggrin:


Hmm... No. But Bynum and LO would be enough for me:biggrin:


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

OK throw in Sasha

done deal.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

Banjoriddim said:


> Hmm... No. But Bynum and LO would be enough for me:biggrin:


I think the Pacers can get LO, Bynum, and 19 for JO. If not go fish. Not many are talking about Phoenix. But I think a JO
deal to Phoenix is possible.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Since when are you guys the GM's?


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

OK then LO and Bynum for JO and Granger?


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Honestly, I think that a JO+Murphy for Odom, Kwame, 19th pick and Brian Cook is enough. Of course that Lakers will win in talent, but Indy save lots of money in this deal and the youngsters will get more PT. Like it was said, you don't get equal value for a superstar.

And jreywind, what kind of deal do you think that Pacers can get with Phoenix?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Of course the Lakers don't want to do that deal.

PG/Kobe/Walton/Odom/Bynum

to...

PG/Kobe/Walton/Murphy/O'Neal

Is certainly not an upgrade. When you take into account Bynum's potential and trade value, it's a big downgrade.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

CubanLaker said:


> OK then LO and Bynum for JO and Granger?



Granger? Get real.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

I love the proposal:

JO and Murphy to Lakers

Salary dump! Dump!


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Zuca said:


> Honestly, I think that a JO+Murphy for Odom, Kwame, 19th pick and Brian Cook is enough. Of course that Lakers will win in talent, but Indy save lots of money in this deal and the youngsters will get more PT. Like it was said, you don't get equal value for a superstar.


Yes, but the point of trading the franchise's best player is to improve in the future, not to save a bit of money and get a lesser player to remain in mediocrity. Besides, getting Odom actually limits the playing time of our young players, since he's a 3/4, just like Granger and Williams.

Seriously, almost every team in the league can offer us a lesser player, a bit of cap relief, and a mediocre pick.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

If I were the Lakers, I wouldn't do it. I'd do it with Kwame Brown but keep Bynum.

If I were the Pacers, I'd be asking for a little more.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

Zuca said:


> Honestly, I think that a JO+Murphy for Odom, Kwame, 19th pick and Brian Cook is enough. Of course that Lakers will win in talent, but Indy save lots of money in this deal and the youngsters will get more PT. Like it was said, you don't get equal value for a superstar.
> 
> And jreywind, what kind of deal do you think that Pacers can get with Phoenix?


I agree if Murphy is dumped in the deal, not getting Bynum isn't so bad. This one is possible, but I wouldn't think of trading JO unless Bynum is involved.

My only thought is for Marion. I know that Phoenix likes to play small (and JO and Amare could get crowded), but Marion sure is subject to a lot of rumors lately. Marion fits the bill to what the Pacers are trying to accomplish long term.


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## Hail Yinka (Jul 3, 2006)

i got a better trade proposal

how bout dont trade JO for any of those crappy players


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

Hail Yinka said:


> i got a better trade proposal
> 
> how bout dont trade JO for any of those crappy players


wow you genius

how come i never thought of that

a trade proposal where you don't make a trade, ****in genius!


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

jreywind said:


> I agree if Murphy is dumped in the deal, not getting Bynum isn't so bad. This one is possible, but I wouldn't think of trading JO unless Bynum is involved.
> 
> My only thought is for Marion. I know that Phoenix likes to play small (and JO and Amare could get crowded), but Marion sure is subject to a lot of rumors lately. Marion fits the bill to what the Pacers are trying to accomplish long term.


Sorry I don't get it what would Pacers do with 30 year old guy who can't create hes own shot and is makeing 15 mil a year? I'd personally prefer to trade JO for younger players who play position where we don't have good depth.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

I personally think JO is over rated. He's had to many injury issues the last few seasons. I think L.Odom is a better overall player than Jermaine. 

Maybe I'm just bitter that my Trail Blazer traded Jermaine to you guys many years ago for Dale Davis. :biggrin: .


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## Grangerx33 (Mar 9, 2004)

B_&_B said:


> I personally think JO is over rated. He's had to many injury issues the last few seasons. I think L.Odom is a better overall player than Jermaine.
> 
> Maybe I'm just bitter that my Trail Blazer traded Jermaine to you guys many years ago for Dale Davis. :biggrin: .


I'm pretty sure thats it. JO is alot better than LO. I wouldn't trade Granger for LO. On a side note, I love DD.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Grangerx33 said:


> I'm pretty sure thats it. JO is alot better than LO. I wouldn't trade Granger for LO. On a side note, I love DD.


Alot better? Stats tell a different story.

2006-07 stats:
Odom - .468 FG% - 9.8 rbs - 4.8 assts - 1 stl - .6 blk - 15.9 pts
O'Neil - .436 FG% - 9.6 rbs - 2.4 assts - .7 stl - 2.6 blk - 19.4 pts


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

B_&_B said:


> Alot better? Stats tell a different story.
> 
> 2006-07 stats:
> Odom - .468 FG% - 9.8 rbs - 4.8 assts - 1 stl - *.6 blk - 15.9 pts*
> O'Neil - .436 FG% - 9.6 rbs - 2.4 assts - .7 stl - *2.6 blk - 19.4 pts*


Odom has more range, passes better, and dribbles better. What else?


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Odom has more range, passes better, and dribbles better. What else?


:lol: 

Jermaine blocks more shots and scores a few more points. What else?

I like Jermaine, and wish the Trail Blazers NEVER would have traded him. But I just think that Odom brings more to the table.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

B_&_B said:


> :lol:
> 
> Jermaine blocks more shots and scores a few more points. What else?


Jermaine anchors an entire defense and is a better overall scorer. He has a greater impact on both ends of the floor, making him the better player. Odom's dribbling and passing don't make him any better than a 2nd or 3rd scoring option, while O'Neal's been Indy's top scoring option since the year after he came.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Jermaine anchors an entire defense and is a better overall scorer. He has a greater impact on both ends of the floor, making him the better player. Odom's dribbling and passing don't make him any better than a 2nd or 3rd scoring option, while O'Neal's been Indy's top scoring option since the year after he came.


Would he be the top scoring option if he played with Kobe like Lamar does? I think not.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

Banjoriddim said:


> Sorry I don't get it what would Pacers do with 30 year old guy who can't create hes own shot and is makeing 15 mil a year? I'd personally prefer to trade JO for younger players who play position where we don't have good depth.


I don't think there is any chance the Pacers would make this deal straight up...I just wouldn't be to surprised if a deal was made where both of these guys were involved.


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## DannyGranger33 (May 12, 2005)

Ballscientist said:


> Murphy to Lakers


I love ANY rumor involving us dumping that overrated POS.

Except if we trade him for another overpaid white guy that just launches 3's. Like a Mike Dunleavy for example.

Oh wait..


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

B_&_B said:


> Would he be the top scoring option if he played with Kobe like Lamar does? I think not.


No, but Odom's not nearly a good enough scorer to be the #1 option of a franchise for this many seasons.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> No, but Odom's not nearly a good enough scorer to be the #1 option of a franchise for this many seasons.


Kobe takes all the shots in LA. Did you see the 33 points he put up in the playoffs vs Phoenix? He averaged almost 20 points in the playoffs, same as Jermaine in the regular season. Without Kobe, there is no doubt that Lamar would average just as many points as Jermaine does with Indiana.

Odom helped get his team in the playoffs (with a little help from Kobe :wink: )... Jermaine couldnt even get the Pacers in the playoffs in the minor league Eastern conference.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

B_&_B said:


> Kobe takes all the shots in LA. Did you see the 33 points he put up in the playoffs vs Phoenix? He averaged almost 20 points in the playoffs, same as Jermaine in the regular season.


...during a 5 game stretch against the Phoenix Suns.



> Without Kobe, there is no doubt that Lamar would average just as many points as Jermaine does with Indiana.


He never has before. He's not a first-option-type player.



> Odom helped get his team in the playoffs (with a little help from Kobe :wink: )... Jermaine couldnt even get the Pacers in the playoffs in the minor league Eastern conference.


O'Neal's brought the Pacers to the playoffs every year he's been here. Actually, this was the first time in his entire career he's missed the playoffs. We were well on our way to making them until the trade, Daniels' injury, and O'Neal's hyperextended knee.

Odom, however, has only been 3 times, 2 of which were with Kobe. He never helped the Clippers make the playoffs and had to defer to Dwyane Wade for the Heat to do anything in the playoffs.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

:cheers: 

:wave:


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

B_&_B said:


> :cheers:
> 
> :wave:


yeah don't troll:cheers: I mean for example: don't you think that one is elite defender and other is avarage one?


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Banjoriddim said:


> yeah don't troll:cheers: I mean for example: don't you think that one is elite defender and other is avarage one?


Troll? No.

Jermaine is not considered an elite defender, at least not anymore. 

http://www.nba.com/news/alldefensive_070430.html


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

B_&_B said:


> Jermaine is not considered an elite defender, at least not anymore.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/news/alldefensive_070430.html


Jermaine should've made the all-first team. He would've at least made the 2nd team had he not hyperextended his knee again late in the season. This was JO's best defensive season since '03-'04, and probably the best of his career since he's much smarter now.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Jermaine should've made the all-first team. He would've at least made the 2nd team had he not hyperextended his knee again late in the season. This was JO's best defensive season since '03-'04, and probably the best of his career since he's much smarter now.


He has never made the 1st or 2nd All Defensive team. As you said, his injury issues may have been a major factor the last few years. But even if he was healthy, I doubt he would have beat out guys like Wallace, Duncan, Camby, Garnett, Prince, and Kirilenko. I'm not saying he's not a good defender, he's good, really good... but he's not "elite" as Banjoriddim said.

http://www.nba.com/history/awards_defensiveteams.html


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

B_&_B said:


> He has never made the 1st or 2nd All Defensive team. As you said, his injury issues may have been a major factor the last few years. But even if he was healthy, I doubt he would have beat out guys like Wallace, Duncan, Camby, Garnett, Prince, and Kirilenko. I'm not saying he's not a good defender, he's good, really good... but he's not "elite" as Banjoriddim said.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/history/awards_defensiveteams.html


He's better than Garnett and Prince, at least. Wallace and Kirilenko are arguable, but neither had spectacular seasons this year.


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## xoai (Jun 14, 2005)

> *He's better than Garnett *and Prince, at least. Wallace and Kirilenko are arguable, but neither had spectacular seasons this year.


My goodness, I'm speechless.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

xoai said:


> My goodness, I'm speechless.


Read what I was responding to. It's about defense.


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## xoai (Jun 14, 2005)

> Read what I was responding to. It's about defense.


KG still better.
As compare with T. Prince, it hard to compare. One is to shut down wing men. The other is post up and help defense. So can't compare those two.
If I can pick between KG and JO, I will pick KG 100 out of 100 times. If you ask me the the same question after 4 years, yes, maybe I will be pick JO because KG will be old.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

I agree with xoai. I'll take KG's D over JO's anyday. Especially considering we know KG's defense will be there almost all 82 games, you cant say that about JO based on the injurys the last few seasons.

Pacers Fan,
It's been fun debating this with ya! repped.
:cheers:


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

xoai said:


> KG still better.
> If I can pick between KG and JO, I will pick KG 100 out of 100 times.


Garnett's a better man-to-man defender and is quicker so he can help more with perimeter big men, but O'Neal's a shot blocking-enforcer. While Garnett has the athleticism to be a good shot blocker, players don't fear attacking the basket with him under it. O'Neal anchors an entire defense full of otherwise crap, much like Denver and Marcus Camby. Without him, the Pacers would be last in the league in probably every defensive category.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Garnett's a better man-to-man defender and is quicker so he can help more with perimeter big men, but O'Neal's a shot blocking-enforcer. While Garnett has the athleticism to be a good shot blocker, players don't fear attacking the basket with him under it. O'Neal anchors an entire defense full of otherwise crap, much like Denver and Marcus Camby. Without him, the Pacers would be last in the league in probably every defensive category.


very solid arguement.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> Garnett's a better man-to-man defender and is quicker so he can help more with perimeter big men, but O'Neal's a shot blocking-enforcer. While Garnett has the athleticism to be a good shot blocker, players don't fear attacking the basket with him under it. O'Neal anchors an entire defense full of otherwise crap, much like Denver and Marcus Camby. Without him, the Pacers would be last in the league in probably every defensive category.


Garnett and O'Neal have identical career shotblocking averages.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> Jermaine anchors an entire defense and is a better overall scorer. He has a greater impact on both ends of the floor, making him the better player. Odom's dribbling and passing don't make him any better than a 2nd or 3rd scoring option, while O'Neal's been Indy's top scoring option since the year after he came.


Jermaine is hardly a better scorer. Yes, he scores more than Odom, but Odom shoots a much higher percentage. Odom is the better offensive player because they aren't very far apart in scoring, and Odom is a much better playmaker if you look a t his 5 apg.

On the other hand, O'Neal has the advantage on defense.

Lateral move by the Lakers.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

LamarButler said:


> Garnett and O'Neal have identical career shotblocking averages.


Yeah, because O'Neal barely played his first few years. Garnett's played 10 more mpg as an average for his career. Jermaine anchors defenses, Garnett doesn't.



> Jermaine is hardly a better scorer. Yes, he scores more than Odom, but Odom shoots a much higher percentage.


Yeah, because he plays with Kobe Bryant. He's not allowed to shoot unless it's a great shot. Look at his 3rd, 4th, and 5th years in the league before he joined the Lakers.



> Odom is the better offensive player because they aren't very far apart in scoring, and Odom is a much better playmaker if you look a t his 5 apg.


Odom should be a better playmaker since he's a perimeter-oriented forward. Indiana's entire offense runs through O'Neal, whereas Lamar Odom will never be a franchise player. Odom's more well-rounded, but most perimeter forwards will be when compared to post players.


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