# Worst Draft Ever



## Captain Obvious

Discuss the debacle that was the 2005 draft for the Orlando Magic.


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## DrewDaGreat

Wow, terrible, awful. FRAN!?!?


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## Captain Obvious

If I was running things this is how it would have been:

11.) Gerald Green
38.) Chris Taft
44.) John Gilchrist

I simply cannot believe we went with safe pick in Vasquez. Do the Magic think we'll be contenders next year?? Is Vasquez the "NBA ready" player that pushes us over the top?? Gimme a break. This pick was made because it was safe and it filled a need. Frankly, I'm disgusted. I would have taken Green, Granger, May, Wright, and probably a couple of other guys over him. 

Diener will probably be solid, but to me he duplicates a lot of what we get out of Nelson. Why not go for a guy like Ukic? Marty seems like a good pick at 44 but I'm hearing that he was traded to the Cavs for a future second and cash. Can anyone confirm this?

Anyway like I said, I'm disgusted at this point and if I get confirmation that we gave away a seven foot three center with some potential I don't know what I'll do. I'll post more tomorrow.


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## DH12

Fran f'in Vazquez...that's all I have to say. Passing up Gerald Green and Sean May.


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## DH12

At least we're not the Raptors...although they did get Ukic in the 2nd round.


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## JNice

..

I'm not sure how I feel about Vasquez. We did need another big man and besides May, he was probably the best available.

Unlike May, Vasquez and Howard can probably interchange at PF and C pretty easily. I don't think May could play any C in the NBA. 

Vasquez looks like he could be very Gasol-like, maybe a little tougher version. I think he can be real solid for Orlando though I think in 3 years from now Orlando will be wishing they took Green. Green must have done something wrong to fall as far as he did ... I didn't think there was any way he goes past LA or Orlando if he is there.

Travis Diener - I like Diener, but this pick doesn't make sense to me. He's got little shot of really contributing on Orlando. We've already got one small PG. Ukic or Gilchrist might have been better picks. I would have preferred taking a guy like Monta Ellis, Louis Williams, or Blatche and let them play in the NBDL for a couple years. 

Martynas is a great pick where he was taken - as long as we aren't stupid and trade away his rights for nothing and let him stay overseas a couple years and see what happens.


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## DH12

Can anyone explain taking Diener? I agree with JNice, I think he's got the ability to make it in the NBA, but why the hell do we take him?


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## JNice

..

We've apparently traded Martynas for a future 2nd rounder and cash considerations ... boneheads.

I wish I could run this club.


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## HKF

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> We've apparently traded Martynas for a future 2nd rounder and cash considerations ... boneheads.
> 
> I wish I could run this club.


To Cleveland?


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## JNice

HKF said:


> To Cleveland?



Yep.


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## franchise311

Can't believe how bad this turned out. I wanted Green so bad at that point, and the pick we did get good value on got traded to Cleveland, wtf? :curse:


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## orlmagicmnvikings

I am not sure if I can be much more dissapointed with this draft. I am sitting at home watching the draft and as the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th picks fall I am saying to myself... Wow, we have a great group of guys to choose from. Whether it be Gerald Green, Danny Granger, Sean May, Hakim Warrick, Joey Graham, Antoine Wright and a few others. Low and behold we draft Fran Vazquez. All week long I hear the co-managers and coaching staff say that we would draft the best player available. After the pick I hear Brian Hill on the radio say, "Well, there was a few guys to choose from but we chose to fill our need." Honestly, I thought the only good part of the draft was drafting the 7 foot 3 inch guy from Lithuania and now I hear he got traded for virtually nothing. I wish John Wesbrod would have quit after the draft. He would not have made these mistakes. :curse:


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## Yyzlin

Ugh. Unless Orlando gets the #1 pick, they are absolutely terrible at drafting. I've never seen Vazquez play, but he had better produce to justify picking him over Green, May, or Wright. And then, Diener? He's only going to play backup point guard for us, and there's about 10 waiting in free agency to be had cheaply. Marty wasn't exactly a great pick either, even if we kept him. If he played next year, I doubt he would have contributed within two years, and we would have just let him go instead of signing him long term. And we still lack depth at wing. We could have had Winston, Thompson, or Basden in the 2nd round.


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## Babir

Unbelievable...I am sure we still could draft this "NBA ready" spaniard in second round instead of this one more tiny PG...Passed on Green, May, Warrik and etc...
And again Cavs robbed us...Last year they got Anderson Varejao and now stole lithuanian 7-3 center...Yes, I agree that Martynas not ready yet, but lithuanians basketball always produce smart bigs (Sabonis, Ilgauskas), so in couple seasons we ll be again opening threads, remembering this damned move...


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## WhoRocks

ahhhh, why not Green??? - A potential stud wing who can already shoot. Franny and Dwight better be tearing up the league in a couple of years time (in magic unis) :none:


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## piri

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> Vasquez looks like he could be very Gasol-like, maybe a little tougher version. I think he can be real solid for Orlando though I think in 3 years from now Orlando will be wishing they took Green. Green must have done something wrong to fall as far as he did ... I didn't think there was any way he goes past LA or Orlando if he is there.



He is not a Gasol type of player. He is tougher but not as fast as Pau. Here in Spain he has played in probably one of the top ten teams in Europe, and he plays with Jorge Garbajosa, that spanish C that hit USA with three pointers almost every time they double or triple Pau and he get out the ball.

Some of you said thet Orlando must pick an american guy to that position because they haven't seen Fran playing. How many of that guys have represented his nation in an international competition? How many of them spent the last three year playing professional basketball against guys that you now perfectly like Scola (he killed USA in the olympics), Noccioni (now in chicago), Garbajosa, and a lot of other guys 10 years older and much more experienced than him?

Fran did it and He did it pretty well.

Give him a chance to show you what he can do.


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## Captain Obvious

*Magic Trade Marty, Deal for Gortat*



> Magic Press Release - The Magic selected center Martynas Andriuskevicius in the second round (44th overall) of the 2005 NBA Draft, then traded his draft rights to the Cleveland Cavaliers in exchange for a 2006 second round draft pick and cash considerations.
> 
> Later, Orlando obtained the draft rights to forward-center Marcin Gortat (57th overall) from the Phoenix Suns in exchange for cash considerations.


Whoopy.


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## WhoDaBest23

The Magic took The Nanny, Fran. Green was the obvious pick, May and Wright would've been acceptable, but no. They draft Diener even with 2 PGs already on the roster. Then they trade away Martynas for a future 2nd...

Stupidity. Guess everyone will have to see how it'll all play out.


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## Idunkonyou

I think it was the worst draft in Magic history until proven otherwise. Not only did we pass on great talents like Granger, Green, May, Wright, McCants, etc. we traded Andriuskevicius, who was a steal at 44. 

I keep hearing that Vazquez could be a Gasol type player. That's great and all, but lets see him prove it on the court. If he is I'll take back my worst draft in Magic history comments because having that type of player beside Howard would be awesome. 

If it was me here is how I would have drafted:

11 - Green or Granger (At one time Green was considered to be a top 5 pick. At 11 he is a steal. Granger is in the same boat. He was supposed to go around 6 or 7 so at 11 he is a steal. Some have compared him to a Pippen type.)
38 - Gomes (Again he was supposed to be a first rounder. Another steal.)
44 - Andriuskevicius (The Magic got this one right and then traded him away. Good job Magic. Your pushing me away as a fan of your club is almost complete.)


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## DH12

Wow, so we give Cleveland back the pick that they gave us in the Gooden/Battie trade when we actually take a good player with it, and get back a 2nd rounder next year that'll be worse next year. You know, I still held some hope for this draft after the Vazquez pick because the Magic have drafted well in the 2nd round in recent years. Last year they drafted Anderson Varejao and Antonio Burks, both of which are looking like steals and like they'll hang around in the league for a while. Unfortunately, the Magic gave them both up. The year before the Magic took Zaza Pachulia and bought Keith Bogans, again two steals who will surely hang around in the league. Again, both are thriving in places other than Orlando. But in my opinion our 2nd round was just as bad if not worse than the 1st round this year. Diener has no place on the Magic, Andriuskevicius may turn out to be something but if he does it won't be for a while and it won't be on the Magic.


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## magicfan187

how good is this guy we traded for from the suns???gave them cash for him...dont recall his name but he is a 7 foot center...hopefully now we got our bigs of the next ten years on the team in howard and fran...


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## GNG

Guys. Just because the guy's from Spain doesn't mean he's Pau Gasol. Or even a Pau Gasolish player. From the people I've talked to, the two guys aren't even _similar_.


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## Idunkonyou

The Gasol comparison came into play when people found out that Fran had better stats than Gasol while playing over in Spain. 

They aren't the same type of player.


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## Captain Obvious

Rawse said:


> Guys. Just because the guy's from Spain doesn't mean he's Pau Gasol. Or even a Pau Gasolish player. From the people I've talked to, the two guys aren't even _similar_.


Yeah you're right. If he was anything like Gasol I wouldn't be complaining like this. He's not though. Seriously, what makes this guy an NBA player, let alone a lottery pick? He's been in the lottery all year in the different mocks, so he can't be too bad. But from what I know, I can't find anything that sets him apart from other solid bigs in Europe.


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## DH12

Rawse said:


> Guys. Just because the guy's from Spain doesn't mean he's Pau Gasol. Or even a Pau Gasolish player. From the people I've talked to, the two guys aren't even _similar_.


Exactly. Why can't anybody ever compare a white guy to a black guy or vice-versa? Honestly, more often than not it seems like people are comparing how players look rather than how they play.


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## NC Williams

I dont understand all this **** about Fran He's a great player and will help the Magic BIG time, He's underrated just because is Foreign. But Hes a great pick, The Martynas thing is a really bad deal


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## Jamel Irief

Did anyone else catch the article in Insider where they ranked the Magic as the second worst drafting team of the past decade? It pointed out that Miller, Howard and Nelson were the only starters they drafted in that span. DeClerq was the best pick (they factor in position they were drafted in) and Gaines the worst.


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## DH12

Jamel Irief said:


> Did anyone else catch the article in Insider where they ranked the Magic as the second worst drafting team of the past decade? It pointed out that Miller, Howard and Nelson were the only starters they drafted in that span. DeClerq was the best pick (they factor in position they were drafted in) and Gaines the worst.


The Magic haven't made a single good pick that I can think of when they weren't picking #1 overall. Miller was an OK pick, and Nelson was great but we didn't pick him we traded for him. The Magic actually did decently in drafting in the 2nd round the past couple of seasons with Varejao, Antonio Burks, Keith Bogans (trade) and Pachulia. Unfortunately the Magic got rid of all of them.


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## Chef

Worst draft in Magic history??

LMAO

2001

15: Steven Hunter
22: Jeryl Sasser
32: Omar Cook

2003

15: Reece Gaines

Enough said.

Fran maybe not be the best guy available at the 11th pick, but he is certainly much better than any of those listed above... He is athletic with a very nice jumper (18 feet range)... He will provide offensive production from the post...


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## ec23456

We haven't even seen Fran play yet it's not the 2005-06 season yet and your knoking him?Yes I agree the Magic should have taken Sean May then they could slide howard to center and put may at Power Forward that would have been nice to see.But let's give this Fran guy a chance to impress if can, in the 2005-06 season.I'll rag on hum as hard as you guys if he doesn't do well,but if he does well then nobody should complain plus not many bigs can shoot 3's that's why we have PG around.


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## JNice

..

Honestly, I am not all that upset about the pick of Vasquez. Most of us have very limited info to base our opinions on, but most of us would have been happy with a pick of Splitter and Vasquez seemed to be rated higher than Splitter all year long.

I found it hard to believe that we passed on Green, but Green may be a case where we can learn that all these internet draft sites don't have all the right info. There had to be a reason that 16 other picks also went by without someone taking Green. Charlotte has said Green wasn't even considered at their 13th pick and most people thought Charlotte would definitely take him if he was there.

Green was intriguing but I think Vasquez is a better pick for Orlando than May. May would probably help more next season, but Vasquez is taller, longer, and seems to have much more potential than May. Vasquez' size advantage over May will also allow him and Dwight to eventually play together and flip back and forth between PF and C pretty seamlessly. May has not shot at playing C for extended mins in the NBA.

....

As for picking Marty and trading him away, that pissed me off at first but we did manage to get another Euro big (Gortat) for basically nothing (cash) and Gortat probably has just as good of a shot of being an NBA player as Marty. So we managed to still get a big with a shot to develop and got a 2nd round pick next year - though with a diluted draft next year, it probably won't be worth a whole lot unless we get lucky.

....

The Diener pick still confuses me. Listening to our co-GMs they were really in love with Diener, but where does he fit on this team? He is a nice little leader who can shoot the rock, but it isn't like this team has problem scoring the ball. For a team whose biggest problems last year were defensively, toughness, and rebounding - Diener certainly doesn't help one bit in any of those areas. Last year other PGs had a field day getting into the lane whenever they pleased and I imagine that would not improve with Diener. 

Gilchrist might be a headache, but at least he's got size and great athleticism and could possibly come on the court and defend someone.

Drafting Diener - who I can't see making the team - instead of taking guys like Monta Ellis, Chris Taft, Blatche, Gelabale, or even Louis Williams and sending them to the NBDL for 2 years hoping to get lucky - doesn't make sense to me.


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## Lurch

How many of you guys have actually seen Vasquez play? He maybe very good, give him a chance. I read they picked Vasquez rarther than May because of his athletic ability, height, soft touch, and shot blocking ability. 


I rember seeing a clip of Marcin Gortat dunking from the free throw line, not bad for a center!!!! Very good selection for a second round pick!


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## Bron_Melo_ROY

Is he coming to America this year.


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## hobojoe

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> Is he coming to America this year.


The Orlando Sentinel reports that he is. 

I said this before, but I was upset about the Vazquez pick not because I don't think he'll be good, but because I believe we passed up better player(s) that fell into our lap. I've seen footage of Vazquez playing in games, and I really like what I see. I think he can potentially be a great compliment to Dwight in the frontcourt down the line. He's also ready to contribute right now, which is also good. Vazquez was not a great pick at 11, but he wasn't horrible either. 

This wasn't the worst draft ever either, not even close. You can quote me on this, Marcin Gortat will be one of the biggest steals of the draft. Diener was an OK pick in the 2nd round, but I think we found a good player in Gortat at the end of the draft (we traded for him of course). He looked extremely promising in what I saw of him in the Summer League. He's very raw and not ready to play in the NBA right now, but man the guy is nearly 7-feet tall and moves like a guard. I love his aggressiveness on both ends of the floor as well.


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## JNice

..

Two years from now with Dwight developing into a superstar, possibly Kasun continuing to develop, Vasquez, and the possible future with Gortat .. we could have a pretty outstanding and nearly all-foreign frontcourt.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY

hobojoe said:


> The Orlando Sentinel reports that he is.
> 
> I said this before, but I was upset about the Vazquez pick not because I don't think he'll be good, but because I believe we passed up better player(s) that fell into our lap. I've seen footage of Vazquez playing in games, and I really like what I see. I think he can potentially be a great compliment to Dwight in the frontcourt down the line. He's also ready to contribute right now, which is also good. Vazquez was not a great pick at 11, but he wasn't horrible either.
> 
> This wasn't the worst draft ever either, not even close. You can quote me on this, Marcin Gortat will be one of the biggest steals of the draft. Diener was an OK pick in the 2nd round, but I think we found a good player in Gortat at the end of the draft (we traded for him of course). He looked extremely promising in what I saw of him in the Summer League. He's very raw and not ready to play in the NBA right now, but man the guy is nearly 7-feet tall and moves like a guard. I love his aggressiveness on both ends of the floor as well.


So what's his game like, I heard he plays like Pau Gasol but many seem do disagree. Who does his game most resemble.


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## hobojoe

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> So what's his game like, I heard he plays like Pau Gasol but many seem do disagree. Who does his game most resemble.


Quite frankly, Gasol is a terrible comparison that comes from people who haven't seen him play. He's a big man from Spain, and that's about as far as the comparison's go. Fran has a pretty nice inside out game for a man of his size. He has terrific form on his jumper, a few polished low post moves, he's extremely aggressive on both ends of the court, always goes up strong when he has the ball down low (which I love about him). I can't think of a very good comparison for him right now, but Gasol is definitely not it. He doesn't have nearly the offensive talent of Gasol, but is much tougher than him from what I've seen.


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## JNice

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> So what's his game like, I heard he plays like Pau Gasol but many seem do disagree. Who does his game most resemble.



I think the Gasol comparisons come from being tall, lanky, and a pretty good fluid athlete for his size. As far as actual skills, they don't seem to be that close from what I have seen.


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## HKF

This guy Vazquez is staying in Europe for at least another year. Should have taken Sean May. He'll never be better than May.


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## bigbabyjesus

HKF said:


> This guy Vazquez is staying in Europe for at least another year. Should have taken Sean May. He'll never be better than May.


I really, really wanted to see May in Orlando. I would have really enjoyed seeing a May-Howard frontcourt dominate for years and years.


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## cpawfan

HKF said:


> This guy Vazquez is staying in Europe for at least another year. Should have taken Sean May. He'll never be better than May.


So Vazquez can't be better than a bust? May will be looking back at his playing days and say, "Gosh, I wish I could have had a career as good as Marcus Fizer"


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## HKF

cpawfan said:


> So Vazquez can't be better than a bust? May will be looking back at his playing days and say, "Gosh, I wish I could have had a career as good as Marcus Fizer"


I am 100% positive that Sean May will be a good pro.


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## seifer0406

DH12 said:


> At least we're not the Raptors...although they did get Ukic in the 2nd round.


 :banana:


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## James_Posey

He is a wasted pick. I watched all the draft. There were players in the 2nd round that were better than him. He could turn out to be good but i doubt it


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## JNice

Pacersrock31 said:


> He is a wasted pick. I watched all the draft. There were players in the 2nd round that were better than him. He could turn out to be good but i doubt it



That is going a little far. Have you actually ever seen him play?


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## James_Posey

No i have not. Im guessing hes ok. Sorry for being so blunt. I just thought 2nd rounders were better than him. His stats didnt look to great


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## JNice

Pacersrock31 said:


> No i have not. Im guessing hes ok. Sorry for being so blunt. I just thought 2nd rounders were better than him. His stats didnt look to great



There might be a couple 2nd rounder who are better, but that happens every year.

You have to remember, also, that very few European players play really big minutes or put up huge stats. Things work a little differently over there.


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## James_Posey

I agree with what ur saying but still i think we should have picked somone we would have known that was good. College players that play good in college usually play good in the pros. (not all the time)


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## kilgoretrout

You get what you pay for.

Look who the Magic are paying to make the decision.

Brian Hill, the most mediocre coach in all Christendom, so incredibly unimaginative that he was drummed out of town by his own players for calling the same play on every possession--"now he's back and things'll be fine...(Hey yah, hey yah, my boyfriend's back...) :biggrin: 

Dave Twardzik, the worst GM in league history, with the distinction of drafting Toad Fuller in place of Kobe Bryant and Adonal Foyle instead of Tracy McGrady! :clap:

And Otis Smith, whose NBA coaching credentials are...uh...uh...uh...well, Otis has never coached, not even the Miracle. At least his management credientials are...uh...uh...uh...well, at least he played for the Magic. Very poorly. And he is a loyal Amway man. And that, my friends, really says it all. Because you naysayers are all quite on target. Gerald Green would have been an inspired choice--even a chance to make up for squandering the best player of this generation in Tracy McGrady--and Grainger, May, Wright, all of them talented with solid NBA futures, while Fran Vasquez is going to eke out his miserable existence in some guano-filled cave in the Basque region, counting the millions he made because some American boneheads were dumb enough to draft him and raise his Eurovalue...and yes, Martynas was a brilliant throw-away pick, so the Magic threw it away. Of course. And why, you ask? Because, asked and answered my dear district attorney, because you get what you pay for. Simple as that, my dear clown :clown:


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## Edaw-hsoB

DH12 said:


> At least we're not the Raptors...although they did get Ukic in the 2nd round.


Hey, dude we got Joey Graham also. He can posturize anyone and anything! And charlie V is captain kicka$$!


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## goodseats

hey raptors fan, you are a complete *** for thinking such things. joey graham is a joke, and charlie villenueva with the 7th overall pick. please, just buddy up with rafael araujo now and stop wasting time thinking you will be any good.


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