# Update: Knicks, Carmelo Anthony agree to 5-yr/$120M+ deal



## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

MIAMI -- The Miami Heat's immediate focus remains overcoming a 2-1 NBA Finals deficit to the San Antonio Spurs, but discussions have begun within the organization about trying to grow their so-called Big Three into a Big Four, according to sources close to the situation.

Sources told ESPN.com that Heat officials and the team's leading players have already started to explore their options for creating sufficient financial flexibility to make an ambitious run at adding New York Knicks scoring machine Carmelo Anthony this summer in free agency.

ESPN's Stephen A. Smith said on his ESPN New York radio show Tuesday and in subsequent interviews that Anthony and James have expressed the mutual desire to play together before their careers end and will look into teaming up if both wind up on the open market in July 2015.

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Wow superstars wanting to play together in one team. I just hope other teams don't fight fire with fire.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Nonsense... I hope the Lakers absolutely fight fire with fire. 

Btw welcome to the boards.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

What a cop-out if they do.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Lol. Nah.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> What a cop-out if they do.


So it is a cop out to add more talent?

This will be funny.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

I bet you could get some pretty long odds on this happening in Vegas. Not saying it isn't possible, but it sure doesn't seem likely. For starters Melo would have to risk a whole lot of money.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



MemphisX said:


> So it is a cop out to add more talent?
> 
> This will be funny.


No, for all four of them to take pay cuts to put together an all-star team. I mean, if that's what they want then fine, but I don't have to respect it.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

No thank you. I'd rather add a decent C and build around Lebron if he stays.
Melonie is terribly overrated in my opinion.

All 3 could just as easily leave anyway. Heat could be the worst team in the league next year if they all bail.


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> No, for all four of them to take pay cuts to put together an all-star team. I mean, if that's what they want then fine, but I don't have to respect it.


Superstars grouping themselves together in one team is not good for the league.
Gone are the days when teams relied on draft luck and good scouting to build a good lineup.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Would laugh pretty hard if it happened. 

Long shot, but so was the big 3!


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> No, for all four of them to take pay cuts to put together an all-star team. I mean, if that's what they want then fine, but I don't have to respect it.


So I can assume you had no respect for The Dream Team correct?


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



MemphisX said:


> So I can assume you had no respect for The Dream Team correct?


Honestly? I don't think it's particularly impressive that they beat the rest of the world handily at a sport that only America played at a high level at that point - Yugoslavia and the USSR had both broken up. I appreciate what they did in terms of spurring international growth of the game, which has helped keep the league watchable after all the expansion it's gone through, but where's the accomplishment in terms of competition there? Am I supposed to think it's breathtaking every time the UConn men's team plays a Division 2 opponent in the first game of the year (or when the UConn women play essentially anyone lately)?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

People will hate you or not respect you for sacrificing money and personal glory to put together an all-star team, people will hate you and call you a selfish loser for passing up a chance to win to take more money on a shitty team. In other words, fans will be fans.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



hobojoe said:


> People will hate you or not respect you for sacrificing money and personal glory to put together an all-star team, people will hate you and call you a selfish loser for passing up a chance to win to take more money on a shitty team. In other words, fans will be fans.


No, there's a difference between someone taking less money to go be the man on a team that's already a playoff squad and a guy with the talent to be the man deciding to go be a fourth option on a recent champion so he can technically say he's got a ring. Join Chicago, Charlotte, Washington, Houston....whatever, but make your own legacy. I'd feel the same way if he took a discount to play for the Clippers or the Thunder as well, by the way.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> No, there's a difference between someone taking less money to go be the man on a team that's already a playoff squad and a guy with the talent to be the man deciding to go be a fourth option on a recent champion so he can technically say he's got a ring.


First of all, you're insane if you think Carmelo would be anything but the second option on the Heat. Secondly, you can set whatever arbitrary criteria you want for what's acceptable and what's not, I still think it's foolish to you or I to be judging.


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> No, there's a difference between someone taking less money to go be the man on a team that's already a playoff squad and a guy with the talent to be the man deciding to go be a fourth option on a recent champion so he can technically say he's got a ring. Join Chicago, Charlotte, Washington, Houston....whatever, but make your own legacy. I'd feel the same way if he took a discount to play for the Clippers or the Thunder as well, by the way.


I agree with you 100%.
Why not try to win on your own, get at least 1 all star then surround yourself with good role players. The reason why MJ breaks down everytime he wins a title is because there is much satisfaction from winning the way he did that the route that Lebron chose.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

If the Heat could somehow rid themselves of Wade and replace him with Melo they'd be an immensely improved team. You'd be able to save an awful lot of wear and tear on Lebron and still win even more regular season games. Of course I am not sure how well they'd actually meld together, as Melo's talent does not really fit into the sort of offense Lebron is best suited to play.

The East doesn't need to be more of a joke though.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



hobojoe said:


> First of all, you're insane if you think Carmelo would be anything but the second option on the Heat. Secondly, you can set whatever arbitrary criteria you want for what's acceptable and what's not, I still think it's foolish to you or I to be judging.


Would it make you feel better if I called him the fourth man in?


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



jansby mac said:


> I agree with you 100%.
> Why not try to win on your own, get at least 1 all star then surround yourself with good role players. The reason why MJ breaks down everytime he wins a title is because there is much satisfaction from winning the way he did that the route that Lebron chose.


Michael Jordan's best teammate was Scottie Pippen. LeBron James' best teammate in Cleveland was Mo Williams. James was never going to win a title in Cleveland, given how clueless the management was in putting players around him.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> Would it make you feel better if I called him the fourth man in?


Not the point. The point is fans will criticize Carmelo (and any other great player) no matter what they do, whether it be sacrificing shots and money or whether it be sacrificing winning in exchange for shots and money. There will always be someone not happy with it who doesn't "respect" it.


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Najee said:


> Michael Jordan's best teammate was Scottie Pippen. LeBron James' best teammate in Cleveland was Mo Williams. James was never going to win a title in Cleveland, given how clueless the management was in putting players around him.


Not comparing Pippen to Kyrie but in terms of building a team around Kyrie and Lebron would be something worth looking at.

I cant see Lebron and Kyrie playing great together, they willl just have to look for role players that will fit into their type of play.


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



hobojoe said:


> Not the point. The point is fans will criticize Carmelo (and any other great player) no matter what they do, whether it be sacrificing shots and money or whether it be sacrificing winning in exchange for shots and money. There will always be someone not happy with it who doesn't "respect" it.


Fans will think and say whatever they want, at the end of the day you'll have to stick with the decision you made. MJ in his early days got hated on a lot, but he stuck with what he believed in and in the end he was able to prove himself.

I think the main reason why Lebron keeps getting affected by all the hate is because he himself knows that he made the wrong decision to take the easy way into a ring and join forces with Wade. Remember that at that time, James was top man in the league, Wade easily inside top 5.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



jansby mac said:


> Fans will think and say whatever they want, at the end of the day you'll have to stick with the decision you made. MJ in his early days got hated on a lot, but he stuck with what he believed in and in the end he was able to prove himself.
> 
> I think the main reason why Lebron keeps getting affected by all the hate is because he himself knows that he made the wrong decision to take the easy way into a ring and join forces with Wade. Remember that at that time, James was top man in the league, Wade easily inside top 5.


LeBron knows he made the wrong decision? Um, I'm going to have to disagree with that.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



jansby mac said:


> Not comparing Pippen to Kyrie but in terms of building a team around Kyrie and Lebron would be something worth looking at.


I was responding to this quote:



jansby mac said:


> The reason why MJ breaks down everytime he wins a title is because there is much satisfaction from winning the way he did that the route that Lebron chose.


If LeBron James stayed Cleveland the Cavaliers front office would not have traded Mo Williams to the Los Angeles Clippers for the first-round pick that ended up being first in the 2011 draft.

James did not play with Kyrie Irving in Cleveland; moreover, your quote to which I responded did not say anything remotely close to that.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Melo in Chicago would be better for fans. Miami's route to reach the finals are a joke. Too easy.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



jansby mac said:


> I think the main reason why Lebron keeps getting affected by all the hate is because he himself knows that he made the wrong decision to take the easy way into a ring and join forces with Wade. Remember that at that time, James was top man in the league, Wade easily inside top 5.


Four straight Finals appearances and two titles, I would have to say that is totally unfounded. LeBron James was smart enough to know he was not going to win a title with an inept franchise which thought Mo Williams as a running mate was the formula to a title.


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## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

LeBron made the wrong decision if he wanted to get into the convo for GOAT. Two or three rings at Cleveland would have done that IMO.

He might the right decision if what he cares about is quantity of rings though. Can't fault him for wanting to join two All Stars that were still in their prime. Now he has gone down that route acquiring Anthony makes sense. Although I think they could get a better fit than Anthony for the $$....


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



edabomb said:


> LeBron made the wrong decision if he wanted to get into the convo for GOAT. Two or three rings at Cleveland would have done that IMO.


That must be why LeBron James' career already is being compared with Larry Bird's for arguably the best small forward in NBA history. Or why James is being compared with Michael Jordan's at various stages. 

I have no idea why some people are ignoring how inept Cleveland was and is in terms of assembling a team. A team with Mo Williams as its second best player was not going to win a title.


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Najee said:


> I was responding to this quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am now looking into the future and talking about lebron moving back to cleaveland.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

I would be in favor of there being some competitive balance in the Eastern Conference myself. This year's Eastern conference playoffs were simply boring and laced with bad basketball. I would like to see Melo go to the Wizards personally, because I pretty much think that would create a better chance of competitive basketball in the Eastern Conference playoffs. 

Not really convinced that Rose is going to be back as what he once was to be honest, but who knows. Love can go to the Bulls and Melo can go some place else that could create a team with a real chance in the East.


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## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Najee said:


> That must be why LeBron James' career already is being compared with Larry Bird's for arguably the best small forward in NBA history. Or why James is being compared with Michael Jordan's at various stages.
> 
> I have no idea why some people are ignoring how inept Cleveland was and is in terms of assembling a team. A team with Mo Williams as its second best player was not going to win a title.


Well my opinion counts for nothing - but that is my opinion. Larry was lucky to land on a stacked team - Jordan had to work with some lineups comparable to what LeBron had in Cleveland. He stuck it out through the many lows in Chicago and came out the other side.

LeBron was only 25 when he skipped out on the Cavs, very young to have given up on them assembling a better roster around him......


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



jansby mac said:


> I am now looking into the future and talking about lebron moving back to cleaveland.


You have a better chance of getting with another Cleveland native -- Halle Berry -- than getting LeBron James. If the Cavaliers franchise wasn't so inept at assembling teams, he would have stayed.


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Najee said:


> Four straight Finals appearances and two titles, I would have to say that is totally unfounded. LeBron James was smart enough to know he was not going to win a title with an inept franchise which thought Mo Williams as a running mate was the formula to a title.


With the lineup Miami has, they are expected to win titles every year as long as all the 3 stars are healthy. So don't expect everybody to join the bandwagon or hating to stop everytime they win a title

The main reason why players stay with an team is not because of the line up of players they have, that can easily be changed overnight with trades etc.
The reason why they stay is because they trust the team's organization. They trust that the executives can put together something that can make them competitive for years to come.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



edabomb said:


> Jordan had to work with some lineups comparable to what LeBron had in Cleveland. He stuck it out through the many lows in Chicago and came out the other side.
> 
> LeBron was only 25 when he skipped out on the Cavs, very young to have given up on them assembling a better roster around him......


Except Cleveland showed repeatedly it could not build a team around LeBron James. You're forgetting how the team traded for past-their-prime players like Wally Szczerbiak and Ben Wallace who clogged up their salary cap. Or swapping those guys for another way past-his-prime big man in Shaquille O'Neal. Or killing what little cap space it had remaining to bring in Antawn Jamison. Or trading away three of its final five first-round picks in the James era.

If Cleveland's front office was halfway competent in building a team, then it would not have won three No. 1 overall picks and two No. 4 picks since James left -- and not much better than it was in 2010-11.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



jansby mac said:


> The reason why they stay is because they trust the team's organization. They trust that the executives can put together something that can make them competitive for years to come.


And yet you have a problem understanding why LeBron James left Cleveland? How has that Cavaliers franchise done with its personnel decisions since James left four seasons ago? How competent was the Cavaliers franchise in building a team around James in the seven years he was there?


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Najee said:


> You have a better chance of getting with another Cleveland native -- Halle Berry -- than getting LeBron James. If the Cavaliers franchise wasn't so inept at assembling teams, he would have stayed.


Exactly, you are right.
Lebron was smart enough to see this, and that's the reason why he left the franchise.
My only problem with Lebron leaving cavs and joining the heat is that in my view, his decision does not have any long term factor to it. Win a few rings then get out and look for another team. 
Miami will always be Wade's team no matter what, he gave them their 1st ring, so at that time it was clear to me that after a few rings, Lebron will leave Miami back to its rightful owner which is Wade.
Dissapointing because GOAT level players just don't do that sort of thing.

And another thing, me talking about Lebron going back cleaveland and win a title there is just my wet dreams coming true.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

What would the Heat do if they had Melo anyway? Still wouldn't have a center, and you reduce your perimeter defense if you try to take out Chalmers or Cole to make room for Melo. I don't think you can hold up defensively if you can't protect the rim or stop the dribble.


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## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Najee said:


> Except Cleveland showed repeatedly it could not build a team around LeBron James. You're forgetting how the team traded for past-their-prime players like Wally Szczerbiak and Ben Wallace who clogged up their salary cap. Or swapping those guys for another way past-his-prime big man in Shaquille O'Neal. Or killing with what cap space it had to bring in Antawn Jamison. Or trading away three of its final five first-round picks in the James era.
> 
> If Cleveland's front office was halfway competent in building a team, then it would not have won three No. 1 overall picks and two No. 4 picks since James left -- and not much better than it was in 2010-11.


I'm not forgetting those poor personnel decisions. I am remembering teams being good enough to win 61 and 66 games in the regular season - obviously this shows how dominant James was those season, but I also thinks they were at most two pieces away from winning it all.

I believe they would have gotten there at least a couple times over the next decade - an unselfish superstar like LeBron it is hard to see him not attracting some major talent to Cleveland by default once Ilgauskas 11mil/per was off the books. I understand why he didn't believe that - but it still tarnishes his individual career IMO.

I'm a big LeBron fan on the court - but we're talking about a rare breed when it comes to the perceived top ten players of all time. Having to collude and leave in FA to win Championships is the type of crazy thing that comes into criteria based on the strength of resumes of those other players.


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## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Out of interest - is there any way the NBA could block this the way they did with Chris Paul to the Lakers? Given it is a free agency contract I wouldn't think so. Just shows how bad that blocking Paul decision was.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Cleveland was and still is an inept slagheap of an organization that creates all of their own misfortune. They bombed all their drafts after LeBron was in a Cleveland uniform. Their management wasn't skilled enough to get the pieces in place to either build a deep, competitive team from the ground up or go get a star like Kevin Garnett or something. That's their fault. They sucked at their jobs and it cost them a superstar who wasn't satisfied with being a mere moneymaker for Dan Gilbert. ****ing deal with it.

LeBron, if he had done what you idiots wanted him to do and stayed in Cleveland because LOYALTY! and STICKING IT OUT! and TAKING YOUR LUMPS!, would be the new Kevin Garnett right now before he smartened up and forced his out of Minnesota. All-time player, zero team accomplishments to show for it, because his best teammates would be the Troy Hudsons and Rasho Nesterovics of the world. Just like they were during his entire tenure in Cleveland.

Even if LeBron didn't go into summer 2010 having decided whether or not he was staying, I would hope that the Cavs sales pitch to him during those July meetings sealed the deal more than anything any other team said. Even the Clippers, the Baron Davis era Clippers, slapped together some sort of here's-how-we'll-get-competitive plan. But all those idiots in Ohio could come up with was "family" and "home" and "loyalty"? **** them.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

As for the actual topic, Melo to Miami would blow up in their face. He can't do shit without the ball and unless they're planning on getting rid of Wade and Bosh he won't get nearly enough scoring opportunities to justify his price tag. Or maybe he will, but then someone else would become dead weight.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



kbdullah said:


> What would the Heat do if they had Melo anyway? Still wouldn't have a center, and you reduce your perimeter defense if you try to take out Chalmers or Cole to make room for Melo. I don't think you can hold up defensively if you can't protect the rim or stop the dribble.


Cole is still under his rookie contract, technically:

Cole
Wade
James
Melo
Bosh

Assuming that the big 3 opted out that is. Whole lotta minimum salary guys off the bench...huge long shot to begin with anyway. Probably not worth discussing really.


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Floods said:


> As for the actual topic, Melo to Miami would blow up in their face. He can't do shit without the ball and unless they're planning on getting rid of Wade and Bosh he won't get nearly enough scoring opportunities to justify his price tag. Or maybe he will, but then someone else would become dead weight.


I hate to say this but Melo is a cancer for any team. He is one of the best scorers in the game, but does more harm than good in doing this.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Floods said:


> As for the actual topic, Melo to Miami would blow up in their face. He can't do shit without the ball and unless they're planning on getting rid of Wade and Bosh he won't get nearly enough scoring opportunities to justify his price tag. Or maybe he will, but then someone else would become dead weight.


Exactly. To me this move only looks good on paper for the star power... I don't see it translating to the court. Course I would rather this move than losing Lebron.


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## Pyrex (Jan 14, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> No, for all four of them to take pay cuts to put together an all-star team. I mean, if that's what they want then fine, but I don't have to respect it.


Wouldn't taking less money be more respectful? Winning over money = my type of guy.

I really hope this happens so I can watch all the crying that will happen again like in 2010. Tears a deeelish


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



edabomb said:


> LeBron made the wrong decision if he wanted to get into the convo for GOAT. Two or three rings at Cleveland would have done that IMO.
> ...


First, there is no way he would have won a ring in Cleveland.

Second, your statement is wrong. You know it is wrong. In fact, you don't even believe it.


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## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



MemphisX said:


> First, there is no way he would have won a ring in Cleveland.
> 
> Second, your statement is wrong. You know it is wrong. In fact, you don't even believe it.


Hmm. He took the 08 Champs to seven games, if the Cavaliers had won that Game 7 I think they go very close to winning the whole thing.

It is a ridiculous sweeping statement to say he wouldn't have had a chance to win a Championship in Cleveland. With Ilgauskas contract off the books they could have brought in some higher level talent with a player like LeBron there. It is similar to those people who said after Game 2 of the Finals this year that the series is over because the Spurs can't win in Miami - it is your opinion, not a rule.

Obviously this isn't a debate I am going to win. My thoughts are I value a Championship like Dirk won with Dallas (think of all the painful Playoff failures he had) over if he had left them to link up with a couple of All-Stars and won three or four Championships. I don't begrudge LeBron his decision - but two Championships when you stack the deck doesn't impress me that much from a legacy standpoint.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

I am a Detroit Pistons fan. Half the time I feel like I'm the only ****ing one here. With that said it should be fairly obvious that I can't ****ing stand losing to god damn Miami. 

But at the same time - Basketball has, over the past decade, become my favorite sport. Without a doubt. And the goal of any franchise, above even titles - is to one day become transcendent. When Michael Jordan finally broke through Detroit and Boston and started running roughshod on the NBA - that was a franchise becoming a distinct part of NBA lore. If Melo joins the Heat and they are just transcendent for another 4-6 years... 

Well in 20 years that is spun across NBA lore as four guys going against every trend and taking paycuts to form a team that would win championship after championship.

Everyone acts like it is the sole responsibility of management to build a championship team, but by the same token we hear all the time about great players being given a word in who goes to their team. A word in new coaching hires. You can't help but admire the fact that these guys have decided that they want to build a monster. 

When I play at the gym I enjoy it when we've got a nice group of evenly matched teams to play. But you know what? When I get a spot on a team that is put together just right and starts running around the gym? Its a whole hell of a lot more fun. These guys are making millions to do precisely one thing: get rings. And if they can make their job more easy.... More power to them. I love the days when my job is easy.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

I don't know if guys are being purposedly dense about this, but i'll try to explain something:

Shaq O'Neal left Orlando (two years from a Finals loss) to join a Lakers team with Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. 

Lebron James left Cleveland (four years from a Finals loss) to join a team with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Meh, if the Eastern Conference is going to be like this for the next 4 years, I won't be watching it. Just do away with the conferences and Lebron can try to stack the deck as much as he wants. He's getting away with it because the East is trash.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



PauloCatarino said:


> I don't know if guys are being purposedly dense about this, but i'll try to explain something:
> 
> Shaq O'Neal left Orlando (two years from a Finals loss) to join a Lakers team with Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel.
> 
> Lebron James left Cleveland (four years from a Finals loss) to join a team with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.


Lebron left in 2010 (three years after), which was one year after losing to Orlando in 2009 as the favorite. In that series he defended Rafer Alston rather than Hedo Turkoglu or Rashard Lewis who torched the Cavs.


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## jansby mac (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



PauloCatarino said:


> I don't know if guys are being purposedly dense about this, but i'll try to explain something:
> 
> Shaq O'Neal left Orlando (two years from a Finals loss) to join a Lakers team with Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel.
> 
> Lebron James left Cleveland (four years from a Finals loss) to join a team with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.


Not a good comparison
Wade a whole lot > Jones
Bosh > Van Exel


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Pyrex said:


> Wouldn't taking less money be more respectful? Winning over money = my type of guy.
> 
> I really hope this happens so I can watch all the crying that will happen again like in 2010. Tears a deeelish


When it's a bunch of guys sitting around at the all-star game divvying up teams like a fourth-grade playground? No. I like competition, if I want to watch a team plow through the entire season I can turn on the Uconn women. That's boring.



edabomb said:


> Out of interest - is there any way the NBA could block this the way they did with Chris Paul to the Lakers? Given it is a free agency contract I wouldn't think so. Just shows how bad that blocking Paul decision was.


The original Paul-to-LA trade was awful, and the Hornets ownership was right to block it. They'd have been capped out going forward with a roster of declining veterans and Goran Dragic trying to chase an eight-seed. People really need to stop acting like taking on the contracts of Kevin Martin, Lamar Odom, and Luis Scola was the smart thing to do.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



jansby mac said:


> Not a good comparison
> Wade a whole lot > Jones
> Bosh > Van Exel


Uh... That was my point!


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



jansby mac said:


> Not a good comparison
> Wade a whole lot > Jones
> Bosh > Van Exel


and rest of Lakers (Horry, Baby Bean, Ceballos) > the rest of the Heat (Mike Miller, Haslem, um... Joel Anthony?)

but more appropriately it's not a good comparison because Shaq didn't take a pay cut to make it happen, he signed a record contract - nor did Lebron's Cleveland fans push him out with a public poll stating he wasn't worth the money as he entered free agency etc

Lebron took less money to contend and hang with his boys
An embittered Shaq took _all the money _to get to a major media market where he could brand himself, make movies and rap albums and also had a chance to contend

very different


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

This was really the part of that story I found interesting. If you add it all up, then Lebron must be earning over a hundred million dollars this year before taxes. He's getting 20 million on the court, supposedly around 45 million in endorsements and then this payday along with his other business ventures. If he's investing well at all then in theory the amount of money he makes from the Heat is really not of vital importance to him. None of that means he'd give away a big chunk of salary though.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...et-for-30-million-profit-on-apple-beats-deal/


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/477113459499225088


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



ATLien said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/477113459499225088


A social experiment to what? Love is a fake superstar. Dirk is old now, Dragic is all-star caliber and Marc Gasol is all-star caliber.

None of these players shift the balance of power the way Lebron did.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



HKF said:


> A social experiment to what? Love is a fake superstar. Dirk is old now, Dragic is all-star caliber and Marc Gasol is all-star caliber.
> 
> None of these players shift the balance of power the way Lebron did.


He's saying that the real reason people object to the idea of an all-star team forming up is that it will lead to black men succeeding, and so anyone who doesn't like that theoretical Heat team is a racist. Which is absurd.


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> He's saying that the real reason people object to the idea of an all-star team forming up is that it will lead to black men succeeding, and so anyone who doesn't like that theoretical Heat team is a racist. Which is absurd.


That is ****ing ridiculous. Idk why people have this obsession with turning absolutely every little thing into a race debate.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



edabomb said:


> I'm not forgetting those poor personnel decisions. I am remembering teams being good enough to win 61 and 66 games in the regular season - obviously this shows how dominant James was those season, but I also thinks they were at most two pieces away from winning it all.


The problem is that those two pieces were legitimate second and third option players that the Cavs had seven years to acquire. And never did. There was no possible justification for him to assume that they would get around to doing that, and as history showed they haven't really done it since he left (as if he'd stayed there'd be no Kyrie Irving nor any of their draft busts).


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

I would to see all the rustleness if it happened, but honestly I don't even want him unless Bosh or Wade leave.


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*LeBron James in Cleveland*



edabomb said:


> I believe they would have gotten there at least a couple times over the next decade - an unselfish superstar like LeBron it is hard to see him not attracting some major talent to Cleveland by default once Ilgauskas 11mil/per was off the books. I understand why he didn't believe that - but it still tarnishes his individual career IMO.


That is doubtful, given how Cleveland has continued to show it cannot build a franchise. The Cavaliers now have landed the No. 1 pick three out of four years in addition to the No. 4 pick twice since LeBron James left and it is not much better than when he left in 2010.

The worst thing that happened to Cleveland, in my opinion, is that it went to the 2007 Finals. Instead of viewing it properly as James taking a terrible team farther than anyone should have expected, the Cleveland front office viewed it as it had the formula for building a team around him: have several small guards shoot from the perimeter, have some plodding big men clog the lane and have LeBron be the top scorer, ball-handler, distributor and defender, plus be the second best rebounder. All the moves Cleveland made afterwards reflected that approach.

Had James stayed, he was looking at a Kevin Garnett in Minnesota type situation. His best teammate was Mo Williams, who was and has never been more than a marginal starter/reserve other than in Cleveland. Like Garnett, James would have spent even more top years on a middling franchise that was successful only because it was bad enough to draft him.


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: LeBron James in Cleveland*



Najee said:


> That is doubtful, given how Cleveland has continued to show it cannot build a franchise. The Cavaliers now have landed the No. 1 pick three out of four years in addition to the No. 4 pick twice since LeBron James left and it is not much better than when he left in 2010.
> 
> The worst thing that happened to Cleveland, in my opinion, is that it went to the 2007 Finals. Instead of viewing it properly as James taking a terrible team farther than anyone should have expected, the Cleveland front office viewed it as it had the formula for building a team around him: have several small guards shoot from the perimeter, have some plodding big men clog the lane and have LeBron be the top scorer, ball-handler, distributor and defender, plus be the second best rebounder. All the moves Cleveland made afterwards reflected that approach.
> 
> Had James stayed, he was looking at a Kevin Garnett in Minnesota type situation. His best teammate was Mo Williams, who was and has never been more than a marginal starter/reserve other than in Cleveland. Like Garnett, James would have spent even more top years on a middling franchise that was successful only because it was bad enough to draft him.


And Delonte West was ****ing his mom.


----------



## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: LeBron James in Cleveland*



Najee said:


> That is doubtful, given how Cleveland has continued to show it cannot build a franchise. The Cavaliers now have landed the No. 1 pick three out of four years in addition to the No. 4 pick twice since LeBron James left and it is not much better than when he left in 2010.
> 
> The worst thing that happened to Cleveland, in my opinion, is that it went to the 2007 Finals. Instead of viewing it properly as James taking a terrible team farther than anyone should have expected, the Cleveland front office viewed it as it had the formula for building a team around him: have several small guards shoot from the perimeter, have some plodding big men clog the lane and have LeBron be the top scorer, ball-handler, distributor and defender, plus be the second best rebounder. All the moves Cleveland made afterwards reflected that approach.
> 
> Had James stayed, he was looking at a Kevin Garnett in Minnesota type situation. His best teammate was Mo Williams, who was and has never been more than a marginal starter/reserve other than in Cleveland. Like Garnett, James would have spent even more top years on a middling franchise that was successful only because it was bad enough to draft him.


Anyone that thinks he wouldve won in Cleveland is just trolling. In the 7 years James was in Cleveland can anyone name their second best player?


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: LeBron James in Cleveland*



Pablo5 said:


> Anyone that thinks he wouldve won in Cleveland is just trolling. In the 7 years James was in Cleveland can anyone name their second best player?


Cavs starting 5 for 07 finals


----------



## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



edabomb said:


> Out of interest - is there any way the NBA could block this the way they did with Chris Paul to the Lakers? Given it is a free agency contract I wouldn't think so. Just shows how bad that blocking Paul decision was.


Name the pieces the Hornets were getting back from LA. Then tell me if that was enough for a All-Star top 5 player.


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: LeBron James in Cleveland*



LeGoat06 said:


> Cavs starting 5 for 07 finals


And keep in mind, Larry Hughes was so awful in the Eastern Conference finals and the first two games of the NBA Finals that he was benched for the rest of the series.


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Cleveland Cavaliers front office*



edabomb said:


> It is a ridiculous sweeping statement to say he wouldn't have had a chance to win a Championship in Cleveland. With Ilgauskas contract off the books they could have brought in some higher level talent with a player like LeBron there. It is similar to those people who said after Game 2 of the Finals this year that the series is over because the Spurs can't win in Miami - it is your opinion, not a rule.


Except Cleveland continually proved it does not have the aptitude to make smart decisions. The 2010 free agent class had been anticipated for two years and instead of clearing cap space to make a run at Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Amar'e Stoudemire, Joe Johnson, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay, etc., the Cavaliers loaded up on bad contracts on past-their-prime players (Shaquille O'Neal, Antawn Jamison). 

The Cavaliers only had about $8 million in cap space that summer, meaning it could get a top player in a sign-and-trade deal. You're also forgetting that Zydrunas Ilgauskas' salary slot was taken by the trade for Jamison, who still had another two years on his deal. Ilgauskas came back to Cleveland after the Washington Wizards waived him and he signed a veteran's minimum deal.

Four years later, the Cavaliers still are making inept decisions. Look at the wasted draft picks. Look at the Cavaliers re-hiring Mike Brown and then firing him one year into a five-year deal. There is nothing to suggest that LeBron James would have gotten better teammates when Cleveland spent his first seven years there and four years since he left proving that it cannot build a team.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



LeGoat06 said:


> I would to see all the rustleness if it happened, but honestly I don't even want him unless Bosh or Wade leave.


Wade's almost certainly retiring in Miami, he's their Kobe/Dirk (and I guess that makes Haslem....their Jeff Foster?) but if Bosh leaves I don't mind Carmelo going to Miami. Three guys is fine. Four is just going to make the Eastern conference boring for years.


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> Wade's almost certainly retiring in Miami, he's their Kobe/Dirk (and I guess that makes Haslem....their Jeff Foster?) but if Bosh leaves I don't mind Carmelo going to Miami. Three guys is fine. Four is just going to make the Eastern conference boring for years.


No four won't win you any championships. I see no way they could make it worth if that's their core 4.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Personally, I would rather see Carmelo in Chicago, and LeBron with a revamped Miami team. Stacking the deck and basically guaranteeing an easy trip to the conference finals and finals is just not entertaining to me in terms of competitive basketball. It may be entertaining in terms of highlight plays, but that's all. 

That said, I don't lose any respect for a player who takes less money to fulfill their basketball related desires. If two friends want to play together, but both are max players on the market, then I see no problem with the two deciding to take less money for the sake of playing together with their friend. 

I also love how it makes fans who factor titles into the perceptions of individual players scramble to rationalize why titles won under these particular circumstances somehow don't count. It just shows how useless it is to factor championships into individual ratings of players.


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Personally, I would rather see Carmelo in Chicago, and LeBron with a revamped Miami team. Stacking the deck and basically guaranteeing an easy trip to the conference finals and finals is just not entertaining to me in terms of competitive basketball. It may be entertaining in terms of highlight plays, but that's all.
> 
> That said, I don't lose any respect for a player who takes less money to fulfill their basketball related desires. If two friends want to play together, but both are max players on the market, then I see no problem with the two deciding to take less money for the sake of playing together with their friend.
> 
> I also love how it makes fans who factor titles into the perceptions of individual players scramble to rationalize why titles won under these particular circumstances somehow don't count. It just shows how useless it is to factor championships into individual ratings of players.



Wow, this is the smartest thing you've ever said.


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Such a beautiful post I actually got teary eyed reading it.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

You know what would be _really_ hilarious? If what LeBron and Carmelo were discussing was James joining Melo in NYC next summer.


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



E.H. Munro said:


> You know what would be _really_ hilarious? If what LeBron and Carmelo were discussing was James joining Melo in NYC next summer.


Extreme possibility.


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



E.H. Munro said:


> You know what would be _really_ hilarious? If what LeBron and Carmelo were discussing was James joining Melo in NYC next summer.


Wow. THAT would be pure entertainment!


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

@Marcus13 Who are you going to root for when Allen retires?


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



E.H. Munro said:


> You know what would be _really_ hilarious? If what LeBron and Carmelo were discussing was James joining Melo in NYC next summer.


I think that would be a super compelling scenario. I actually like that idea quite a bit. If Tyson Chandler can stay relevant until then, they would be a couple of triangle-friendly guards away from having a shot to win big with that team.


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



LeGoat06 said:


> @Marcus13 Who are you going to root for when Allen retires?


Ive had that debate in my head multiple times and I just really don't know. I might just find myself supporting UConn more then any NBA Team. I just hope he has one more season In him before Im put in that position


----------



## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> When it's a bunch of guys sitting around at the all-star game divvying up teams like a fourth-grade playground? No. I like competition, if I want to watch a team plow through the entire season I can turn on the Uconn women. That's boring.
> 
> 
> 
> The original Paul-to-LA trade was awful, and the Hornets ownership was right to block it. They'd have been capped out going forward with a roster of declining veterans and Goran Dragic trying to chase an eight-seed. People really need to stop acting like taking on the contracts of Kevin Martin, Lamar Odom, and Luis Scola was the smart thing to do.


Agree that was a horrible trade - but the Hornets had agreed to it. I don't think there is any way the NBA could block this as Free Agency signings don't need approval - if it was a sign and trade I could see it being a veto by other owners in terms of unbalancing talent across the league.


----------



## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

LeBron said it himself when he signed with Miami - playing with these guys is going to be easy.....

I don't compare him to Garnett or Shaq because I hold him in another calibre of player - I think he could have put the Cavs on his back for a couple of Championships with only half decent teammates. Garnett, especially, was never at that level.

I am glad he didn't though as the Thunder may have won in 2011.


----------



## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



edabomb said:


> LeBron said it himself when he signed with Miami - playing* with these guys is going to be easy.....*
> 
> I don't compare him to Garnett or Shaq because I hold him in another calibre of player - I think he could have put the Cavs on his back for a couple of Championships with only half decent teammates. Garnett, especially, was never at that level.
> 
> I am glad he didn't though as the Thunder may have won in 2011.


He probably didn't realize that after '11 he was going to get half ass wade and 3 point shootout Bosh.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Marcus13 said:


> Ive had that debate in my head multiple times and I just really don't know. I might just find myself supporting UConn more then any NBA Team. I just hope he has one more season In him before Im put in that position


Come follow Kemba with me. It's fun.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Pablo5 said:


> Name the pieces the Hornets were getting back from LA. Then tell me if that was enough for a All-Star top 5 player.


do you mean Eric Gordon's one good knee, a quick Chris Kaman rental, the potentially mediocre Al-Farouq Aminu and the pick that became (the legendary) Austin Rivers? Sure.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



edabomb said:


> Agree that was a horrible trade - but the Hornets had agreed to it. I don't think there is any way the NBA could block this as Free Agency signings don't need approval - if it was a sign and trade I could see it being a veto by other owners in terms of unbalancing talent across the league.


the problem was the league 'owned' the Hornets and were therefore in a position where they could veto - if the proposed free agent team up were to take place unless there was some proof of collusion or tampering I cant see Silver stepping in


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



e-monk said:


> do you mean Eric Gordon's one good knee, a quick Chris Kaman rental, the potentially mediocre Al-Farouq Aminu and the pick that became (the legendary) Austin Rivers? Sure.


The NBA sold the team for a profit largely because they cleared the books with that trade. They were looking to get out of the business of owning the Hornets, not to go into the business of owning a perennially mediocre (at best) Hornets. They gave the new owners a nearly blank slate to work with, which was a lot more attractive as an investment than a team that was capped out and going nowhere in a great big hurry.


----------



## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



e-monk said:


> the problem was the league 'owned' the Hornets and were therefore in a position where they could veto - if the proposed free agent team up were to take place unless there was some proof of collusion or tampering I cant see Silver stepping in


Owners can veto too right? Have they ever actually done it? I can't remember it since I started following the NBA closely (1995ish onwards).

Sign and trade is massively unlikely as you allude to though as Carmello wouldn't be in a position to take the maximum and wouldn't want to drain the Heat of any playing resources given he wasn't getting the max either way.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

well I guess we know Stern's real stance on tanking then

my real problems with the veto are 

1) while I agree that the haul the Hornets would have gotten with the Lakers trade wasn't good it's not like the Lakers weren't giving up a lot in (at the time) Gasol and Odom - it's just that the Rockets somehow got the best piece by being the middle man 
2) the Lakers have no one but themselves to blame because of the timing of the trade which came right on the heels of the resolution of the lock out and implementation of the new CBA - if they'd maybe waited a few weeks and/or made a few exploratory phone calls 
3) it had to be the Clippers? really? in the same building and you're rewarding the worst POS owner in the league? Insult to injury


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



edabomb said:


> Owners can veto too right? Have they ever actually done it?


I'm not sure but I think they would be reluctant to do so if they didn't have any better rationalization than "boo hoo hoo we don't want you guys to be good" - guys like Cuban (at least) are well aware of that kind of slippery slope coming back to bite them on the ass


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



e-monk said:


> well I guess we know Stern's real stance on tanking then
> 
> my real problems with the veto are
> 
> ...


Well, the rationalization wasn't that the trade was going to make the Lakers too good, it's that the Hornets were getting an awful return. A lottery pick, a risk/reward prospect with a high ceiling, and cap relief was a much better package, and there isn't a Pelicans fan alive that wishes they went with the Lakers/Rockets deal in hindsight.

And before a certain someone plays the "you only feel that way because they won the lottery and lucked into Anthony Davis" card, you couldn't trade Dragic for Drummond, Lillard, or Beal right now either.


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> Come follow Kemba with me. It's fun.


Definitely a possibility. He's the only young UConn player that looks like he has All-Star potential. Even though it's going to be tough on him as he's going to compete against Irving and Wall his entire career.

I also thought about if Ray retires maybe I'll follow Napier wherever he lands but I really think he's best suited as a sixth man at this level


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> Well, the rationalization wasn't that the trade was going to make the Lakers too good, it's that the Hornets were getting an awful return. A lottery pick, a risk/reward prospect with a high ceiling, and cap relief was a much better package, and there isn't a Pelicans fan alive that wishes they went with the Lakers/Rockets deal in hindsight.
> 
> And before a certain someone plays the "you only feel that way because they won the lottery and lucked into Anthony Davis" card, you couldn't trade Dragic for Drummond, Lillard, or Beal right now either.


no but at the time you might have been able to move Scola and Martin and tank anyway + gotten a couple more pieces - Phoenix wound up trading Scola to Indiana for Gerald Green, Miles Plumlee and a future 1st and the Rockets packaged Martin (who went on to ink a decent price with the Wolves as well) in the Harden trade so they obviously still had value in the hands of an industrious gm - not that Demps was necessarily that

I think what grinds is that the Lakers are painted as the bad guys getting over but really they did give up value, it was Morey that was really robbing the Hornets

+ f#c4 Donald Sterling


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



e-monk said:


> no but at the time you might have been able to move Scola and Martin and tank anyway + gotten a couple more pieces - Phoenix wound up trading Scola to Indiana for Gerald Green, Miles Plumlee and a future 1st and the Rockets packaged Martin (who went on to ink a decent price with the Wolves as well) in the Harden trade so they obviously still had value in the hands of an industrious gm - not that Demps was necessarily that
> 
> I think what grinds is that the Lakers are painted as the bad guys getting over but really they did give up value, it was Morey that was really robbing the Hornets
> 
> + f#c4 Donald Sterling


Phoenix was able to move Scola on a reduced-rate cap figure he only had because Houston amnestied him after the trade fell apart. Had New Orleans taken Scola in trade he'd have been on the books for over $10 million this season instead of $4.5 million and been basically unmovable.



Marcus13 said:


> Definitely a possibility. He's the only young UConn player that looks like he has All-Star potential. Even though it's going to be tough on him as he's going to compete against Irving and Wall his entire career.
> 
> I also thought about if Ray retires maybe I'll follow Napier wherever he lands but I really think he's best suited as a sixth man at this level


Depending on where he ends up, though, Napier could be a very fun sixth man. I've mentioned once or twice he could be a very viable option for Miami late in the first round as a cheaper alternative to bringing back Chalmers. Maybe Ray and Napier playing one season together gives you a natural bridge between the two.


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> Depending on where he ends up, though, Napier could be a very fun sixth man. I've mentioned once or twice he could be a very viable option for Miami late in the first round as a cheaper alternative to bringing back Chalmers. *Maybe Ray and Napier playing one season together gives you a natural bridge between the two*.


That'd be an amazing best case scenario. Obviously I'm already comfortable cheering for a guy at the sixth man spot - I never really thought if it as a possibility but I just looked and DraftExpress has him going 24 and Miami picks 26 so I guess it's a possibility


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Marcus13 said:


> That'd be an amazing best case scenario. Obviously I'm already comfortable cheering for a guy at the sixth man spot - I never really thought if it as a possibility but I just looked and DraftExpress has him going 24 and Miami picks 26 so I guess it's a possibility


On the other hand, if Napier _did_ go at 24 it'd mean that he and Kemba were playing in the same backcourt again. That'd be fun too.


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Bogg said:


> On the other hand, if Napier _did_ go at 24 it'd mean that he and Kemba were playing in the same backcourt again. That'd be fun too.


Yepp that'd also be a sure-fire plan - that'd be very, very fun


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Floods said:


> As for the actual topic, Melo to Miami would blow up in their face. He can't do shit without the ball and unless they're planning on getting rid of Wade and Bosh he won't get nearly enough scoring opportunities to justify his price tag. Or maybe he will, but then someone else would become dead weight.


Personally, Miami would be better suited to pursue a player like Marcin Gortat more than Carmelo Anthony. Miami needs a low-post scorer who can rebound, play some sort of interior defense and make the opponent think on both ends. Gortat can provide that presence and at a good value.


----------



## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



Najee said:


> Personally, Miami would be better suited to pursue a player like Marcin Gortat more than Carmelo Anthony. Miami needs a low-post scorer who can rebound, play some sort of interior defense and make the opponent think on both ends. Gortat can provide that presence and at a good value.


A lot needs to happen for Anthony to Miami to happen. I can see Bron leaving for NY if Wade and Bosh are unwilling to opt out for the better of the team. Gortat would be great for the Heat. 

Hell they should all opt out and take less to bring him in and fill the roster with younger players.


----------



## Pyrex (Jan 14, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

You guys don't realize but the whole deal with adding Melo would be to save everyone minutes (like Spurs). Miami would have 2 of the "big" four at all times and have them at around 30minutes each per game. That's why Miami would want Melo.

Me personally I would rather have Lowry and somehow get Ariza. My dream would be Lowry Ariza and Gortat


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

*Sources: Carmelo Anthony leaning toward leaving Knicks; Bulls, Rockets in contention*



> New York Knicks star Carmelo Anthony is leaning toward leaving in pursuit of immediate championship contention, and awaits the Chicago Bulls and Houston Rockets to clear the necessary salary-cap space to sign him in free agency, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
> 
> As re-signing with the Knicks continues to fade as his priority, Chicago and Houston have emerged as the clear frontrunners to acquire Anthony, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
> 
> ...


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Hey Chicago, the Lakers would probably be interested in taking Boozer of your hands for one of those first rounders you have...


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

Melo belongs in Chicago. There is a deal there for both teams that makes sense.

Boozer, Dunleavy, 2 1st Rounders and the rights to Mirotic for Melo and Felton. Doesn't give the Knicks any long deals and they dump Felton in the process. Bulls end up with a very balanced team.


----------



## Fadeaway44 (Apr 29, 2014)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*

melo in chicago is the most exciting thing ever


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Just want to make it clear in case some people don't understand.

Bulls and Rockets have zero chance to get Melo this season because Knicks are not interested in .....


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

More the usual of your BS...BS.


----------



## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Dissonance said:


> More the usual of your BS...BS.


What do either team have that NY would want?


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Take what they have to or he signs outright elsewhere.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Melo is probably going to want to take all the money with him and if he does, then the Knicks have some leverage


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Dissonance said:


> Take what they have to or he signs outright elsewhere.


They don't have to take on bad contracts. NY would be better off convincing him to take less and have him bring players along, but having to take on bad contracts for a player that has his mind set on leaving anyway would be flat out stupid


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Personally I think Houston has the best shot.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Not saying he's only going to those places but if he's determined, he's going there. Players always dictate where they wanna go.


I'm also tired of BS.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Hey Chicago, the Lakers would probably be interested in taking Boozer of your hands for one of those first rounders you have...


For the Bulls' #19 pick? I would consider it.

Granted we have the amnesty provision to use on Boozer. Does this give the Bulls a trade exception? If so that could be valuable.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

If NY was smart they would take Boozer, Dunleavy, Mirotic and picks for Melo and Felton.

Then dump Chandler on a team like the Mavs, and dump guys like Shumpert for picks. 

Be under the luxury tax, and have a clean slate for 2015 with some assets stockpiled.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Diable said:


> Melo is probably going to want to take all the money with him and if he does, then the Knicks have some leverage


"Some" being the keyword. A lot of people said the same thing last year about the Lakers and Dwight Howard. He may not get what the Knicks could offer, but he can still get a hell of a lot of money in Chicago, Houston or elsewhere without the Knicks' approval. They can likely get assets from Chicago or Houston in exchange for facilitating a sign and trade, but if they get too greedy they'll end up with nothing.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> If NY was smart they would take Boozer, Dunleavy, Mirotic and picks for Melo and Felton.


Boozer is older version of Amare. They have the same performance trend. After meeting with Dolan, Dolan will say we have the two Amares.

interesting link

http://www.fantasysp.com/start/nba/79008/amare-stoudemire-or-carlos-boozer

Asik is a younger version of Tyson Chandler, ..........


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/481907087149395968


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Why not Warriors?

Thompson, Iggy and Green to Knicks

Thompson 24 yrs old
Green 22 yrs old


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Why not Heat?

Wade and Bosh max contracts = 260 million

pay cut $160 million

They can give Melo max contract.

How about Big Three get Vets min contract for one year? assumption no injury


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Grasping at straws...


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Dissonance said:


> Grasping at straws...


Houston has the best chance at landing one of the two (Bron/Melo).


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Pablo5 said:


> Houston has the best chance at landing on of the two (Bron/Melo).


They've also got the best chance of landing both.


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Bogg said:


> They've also got the best chance of landing both.


 Can you see a scenario with a sign and trade Melo for Harden? Then Lebron would sign there


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Pablo5 said:


> Can you see a scenario with a sign and trade Melo for Harden? Then Lebron would sign there


That's what I'm thinking. Dump Asik on a team with space or an exception for a pick or two (easy), get a promise from Lebron (much harder), and package Harden with Lin for Carmelo (easy once you have Lebron). Obviously it hinges on the longshot of adding Lebron, but losing Asik for future picks and getting the Knicks to play along with Harden as the carrot are both relatively simple.


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Bogg said:


> That's what I'm thinking. Dump Asik on a team with space or an exception for a pick or two (easy), get a promise from Lebron (much harder), and package Harden with Lin for Carmelo (easy once you have Lebron). Obviously it hinges on the longshot of adding Lebron, but losing Asik for future picks and getting the Knicks to play along with Harden as the carrot are both relatively simple.


Now with the removal of Chandler I can see them looking hard at the Harden/Asik sign and trade for Melo. Maybe Parsons for a SG?


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

There is a reason that we Warriors want to help Rockets to unload Lin and Parsons.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Pablo5 said:


> Now with the removal of Chandler I can see them looking hard at the Harden/Asik sign and trade for Melo. Maybe Parsons for a SG?


Moving Parsons is difficult because he essentially has to okay any move this summer and shooting guards are in short supply. Unless you can find some sign-and-trade destination that Parsons is excited about they're probably looking at keeping him around and then shopping him in the middle of the season once he's securely on a long-term contract.


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Ballscientist said:


> There is a reason that we Warriors want to help Rockets to unload Lin and Parsons.


What?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

New York trades Carmelo Anthony to Houston for James Harden.

The Houston Rockets sign Lebron James.

Free Agency Season is coming, just wait on it...


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Marcus13 said:


> New York trades Carmelo Anthony to Houston for James Harden.
> 
> The Houston Rockets sign Lebron James.
> 
> Free Agency Season is coming, just wait on it...


"Ray Allen signs one-year contract with Houston Rockets with a player option for a second season"


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Marcus13 said:


> New York trades Carmelo Anthony to Houston for James Harden.
> 
> The Houston Rockets sign Lebron James.
> 
> Free Agency Season is coming, just wait on it...


This would set the West on fire.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

I don't understand what the fuss is over Melo to Houston. Is he that much more of an upgrade over Harden that'd it'd affect Lebron's decision? They are about the same caliber player to me and I'd rather have Harden next to Lebron so you have a natural SG and SF.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Bogg said:


> "Ray Allen and Marcus signs one-year contract with Houston Rockets with a player option for a second season"


Fixed.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



kbdullah said:


> I don't understand what the fuss is over Melo to Houston. Is he that much more of an upgrade over Harden that'd it'd affect Lebron's decision? They are about the same caliber player to me and I'd rather have Harden next to Lebron so you have a natural SG and SF.


It'd all about luring Bron there.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



Dissonance said:


> It'd all about luring Bron there.


I don't understand why Bron would prefer Melo over Harden, really. If Houston creates enough space to offer a max deal, and you get the opportunity to play with Dwight and Harden, are you going to turn it down b/c Harden isn't Melo?? Crazy to me, but this is why ball players aren't GM's.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

They'd think his friendship lures him there. We don't know Bron goes there or based on it. 


Though I think Melo gets underrated on this forum.


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*



kbdullah said:


> I don't understand why Bron would prefer Melo over Harden, really. If Houston creates enough space to offer a max deal, and you get the opportunity to play with Dwight and Harden, are you going to turn it down b/c Harden isn't Melo?? Crazy to me, but this is why ball players aren't GM's.


You're missing a much larger point. Melo is an upgrade to Harden. Melo is probably one of the best catch and shoot guys in the NBA. He has never played with anyone on the floor that was better than him. Now you team him with Howard and Lebron with nothing but space and he'll have the best year of his career.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

melo is absolutely a better player than harden. it would absolutely make the difference for lebron to sign up.


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## Pablo5 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

The money isnt an issue when youre playing in a state that doesnt have a state tax. Texas is one of those states. Which is why im suprised more free agents wouldnt look into the Mavs more


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

*Where should Melo go? my opinions

Mavs: Dirk and Chandler are too old. One year left?

Lakers: Kobe, Gasol and Nash are older than Mavs. One month left?

Bulls: have zero cap space. Will Dolan approve for Boozer/Melo trade? Rose is injury-prone?

Rockets: Howard is not easy to get along with.

Therefore the best fit is Warriors. Warrior will keep these 4 at $63 million.

Big 4: Curry, Love, Bogut, Melo
*


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out; Bulls and Rockets in contention*

Jesus. BS is a massive homer.

Every player is not only going to the Warriors but the Warriors are the best option for them. According to him.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/486001460056834048


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/486959760042770432


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*

Yeah sounds like Melo is staying in NY.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*

Melo believes that Dolan is going to give him a hell of a lot more money than anyone else can


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*

Glad to see it. I wouldn't have hated Melo on the Bulls but he makes the Knicks entertaining nad that's important


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/486962629294837760

Sneaky.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*

If Carmelo has decided, that probably means Lebron decided too, right?


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....ony-to-choose-new-york-announcement-thursday/


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Update: Carmelo Anthony to opt out*

Melo apparently can't get Chicago out of his head and is having doubts about NY again. SMH


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/488021354646499328


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Contract details



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/489487426076049408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/489487679521042433


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

But don't worry Melo took a smaller % increase next summer to help free up cap space for the Knicks. What a swell guy knocking $2M off his $124M contract.


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