# Who will win the Euroleague?



## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

There are a lot of contenders... who do you think that will be the winner?


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

I hope Skipper that is my favorite team, but is too young and weak in the frontline...si I'll go with Benetton Treviso...a machine, with the best coach of Europe(Messina)


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Barcelona has some serious injury problems. I like making fun of Duenas but he is still very usefull player, and I don't believe Drejer can replace F.ucka right away.

As Magnus said- Skipper has a weak front line- they are actually quite good in offense, while defense could be discussed- I heard sth. about signing Ike Austin- with him they would be serious contenders.

Maccabi has strongest front line in europe, and since final four is held in Tel Aviv I don't believe any other team is capable of beating them on their home-court.

FF contendants are imo also: Tau and Benneton


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

one of the 4: TAU, Barcelona, Benneton or Macabbi

and I will cheer for Barça


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## macijauskas1 (Dec 22, 2003)

I doubted about healthy Barcas chance go to final 4, now, after injuries it is very little chance that they get into euroleague final4, they made biiiiiiiig mistake not signing Sarunas Jasikevichius, he will beat Barca alone if Macabi meat them on the way. Cska and Macabi are strongest teams with biggest budgets and healthy rosters. Tau has chances too, and of course Zalgiris with legendary Sabonis can surprize every team. My choise-Macabi, they are extremely strong, and the final4 will be played in Israel.


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## falsestart (Jan 23, 2004)

There can be inly 2 options, IMO: CSKA or Maccabi. Definetly, they're best teams in Europe. Of course, Maccabi has advantage of the homecourt, but CSKA has already beat'em in Tel Aviv, so in would be great to watch a final with these teams.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Benetton Treviso or Maccabi Tel-Aviv

But Skipper Bologna can be a surprise.


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

Zalgiris gets to Top16 as 16th team, and only on tiebreakers, but you put us in the poll. Thanks, I like such respect :grinning: 

I just hope we dont get Maccabi in our group, cause its obvious they will play in Final Four no matter what. ULEB wont allow them not to win the group. The group with Maccabi can forget the sports.

Zalgiris and ULEB must say thanks to Olimpia, which helped for Zalgiris to become the best 16th team after first stage. Why should ULEB thank Olimpia? Cause if Zalgiris wouldnt be in, there would be such a scandal!!!

Referees or one referee stole the victory for CSKA vs Zalgiris (and could stole our qualification to next round). For ones that do not know what happened I'll explain shortly. The score was 75:75 with 10 seconds to go and Zalgiris had a ball after rebound. Cota went through halfline, stoped for a second, when tryed to cut into the paint but met some defenders were and gave the pass... and then whistle. 1,6 second left. What happened? One ref shows 3 second violation. WTF?! 3 second violation in last attack?! If really nobody on court and in the stands didnt understand the call, the ref just showed that ball must go to CSKA. The explanation of the call arrived only after the game. The replays showed that neither Sabonis, nor Tanoka Beard werent in the paint for longer than one second. 

CSKA took timeout and whats next? After 3 second call, the ball must go from out of bounds near the endline (or baseline, how its called in English), right? But that same ref gave CSKA ball near the halfline, and after pass Alexander scores buzzer beater. Ref shows 3 points, while it was obviously steped on the line. He just knew that point difference matters to Zalgiris.

Some interesting facts were found after the game. Do you all remember first ULEB Euroleague? AEK- Tau Ceramica game in semifinal. When Tau was leading by one point, time ended, but that the same referee waited for 5 seconds after buzzer and then AEK scored he counted that shot. 5 seconds after buzzer!!! There was a big scandal then, the game was replayed, Tau won it and went to finals to meet Kinder Bologna.

Who was the ref who counted those points?! The same referee who was whistling in Kaunas on Thursday. Hes yugoslavian. Wait, who was the coach of AEK back then. Isnt it Dusan Ivkovic... and whos the coach of CSKA now the same Dusan Ivkovic!!!

Former CSKA player revealed that Ivkovic and that referee are close friends... that could cost Zalgiris a Top16...

Sorry for long post, but ULEB sucks as FIBA did. Its all the same for yugoslavians, Ivkovic and Obradovic always get the favours from referees... Something should be done...


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## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

Maccabi is an extremely hard team to beat when they are at home. So my vote goes to Maccabi.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> I just hope we dont get Maccabi in our group, cause its obvious they will play in Final Four no matter what. ULEB wont allow them not to win the group. The group with Maccabi can forget the sports


nobody really wants to get Maccabi  - like last year Barcelona, and next year CSKA


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

I really get annoyed when I see people from a particular country saying that a team from their own country is a contender to win the EL (when this is not the case). 

Skipper? Oh, come on people, give me a break. And even if this happens (sh-it happens) there is absolutely no way someone can consider Skipper a contender for the F4 now. 

Zalgiris? This is like saying that Krka was going to reach the top-16.

In comparison to CSKA, Barca, and Maccabi, all the rest of the teams are a joke. Efes is very strong and I can see them reaching the F4. Benetton has a chance too. TAU, I don't think so. 

This whole thing reminds me of the "Fanfare" of ulebcup.com where fans post their opinions about the league, and you see people saying: "Cholet will win ULEB cup because they are the best team", or "Prokom has the greatest history of all the teams in ULEB cup" etc. 






Skipper...


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> I really get annoyed when I see people from a particular country saying that a team from their own country is a contender to win the EL (when this is not the case).


If not to vote for the own country then this poll is dumb. Maccabi have already won it this year. Well, maybe lets say 90%. The intrigue in those 10% are just will they have a really bad bad game in Final Four that even ULEB couldnt help them...


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> I really get annoyed when I see people from a particular country saying that a team from their own country is a contender to win the EL (when this is not the case).
> 
> Skipper? Oh, come on people, give me a break. And even if this happens (sh-it happens) there is absolutely no way someone can consider Skipper a contender for the F4 now.
> ...


I don't change my idea and not because I'm from Italy: Skipper can be a surprise ... without problem (injuries etc) they can reach at least the final 4.

In any case, as I sai, the favourites for me are Benetton and Maccabi


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

I don't think there are any non-italians out there that really believe Skipper can reach the F4. But anyway. I hope they do. For obvious reasons. As for the final winner, I hope it is either CSKA or Benetton.

Skipper relies too much on their shooting. If they are in a good day, fine. If not, then they have no alternatives. I believe that Skipper is going to suffer a lot from Efes' defense. The blues are the only team in Euroleague that play some serious defense. And we all know that defense wins the trophies. In addition to their experience, Efes for the first time has a decent (in fact more than decent) play maker in the face of Arslan. And of course they have a fine colection of foreighners such as Langdon, Granger, Kuqo, Prkacin, Nikolic etc. 

We'll see what happens.


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> I don't think there are any non-italians out there that really believe Skipper can reach the F4. But anyway. I hope they do. For obvious reasons. As for the final winner, I hope it is either CSKA or Benetton.


Im non-italian and I believe that Skipper can reach F4. I give them 50/50 chances together with Efes, cause other two teams are really not that strong. 

Yes, as you said Skipper sometimes too much relies on shooting, but other teams in this group doesnt have strong frontlines, so even Mottola or Smodis can play their part more than in previous Group B. 

Efes plays great defense and has not bad starting 5, but I see them losing to Olimpija or Pau once, while I think Skipper will go 4-0 on those (of course there are bad days, but normaly...). So everything will clear up in their head to head matches, there as I said I give them both 50/50.


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## ChitwoodStyle (Oct 9, 2003)

Maccabi's home court advantage at final four will be somewhat helpful, but they still have to play solid ball. I like Barca because everytime someone questions Bodiroga and how he does it, he just does it again and they win. Barca is also my favorite team.

I have another question who thinks that the top 16 could beat at least half of the NBA some teams like Atlanta wouldn't even make a top level competition.

Some of the teams could dare i say even make the playoffs in the NBA. The competition isn't nearly as uneven as americans think.
I only wish Euroleague games were televised in the US so i could watch them. Anyway it should be a very exciting round of 16 until the championship.


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> Skipper? Oh, come on people, give me a break. And even if this happens (sh-it happens) there is absolutely no way someone can consider Skipper a contender for the F4 now.
> 
> 
> ...



Skipper is an erratic team, with lot lot of talent.Proved that can beat everyone..Beat CSKA and Maccabi on road!! In good nights Skipper can be unstoppable...that is why italianBBlover with reason that can be a surprise....

Than your second affirmation is wrong... Treviso(Benetton) has an incredible team in term of talent and experience..not inferior of the ones u said.. Benetton has top players in the back and front courts...Edney, Bulleri, Evansn PITTIS...Garbajosa, Marconato..all are great players...and remember that they reached final four twice in a row...Then Messina is a Nba coach(IMO)...a perfectionist


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> I have another question who thinks that the top 16 could beat at least half of the NBA some teams like Atlanta wouldn't even make a top level competition.


Imo Barcelona, CSKA or Maccabi could beat a team like Atlanta, 
occasionally some other teams as well.



> I only wish Euroleague games were televised in the US so i could watch them. Anyway it should be a very exciting round of 16 until the championship.


There are replays on Nba Tv every saturday.:yes: 



> Skipper is an erratic team, with lot lot of talent.Proved that can beat everyone..Beat CSKA and Maccabi on road!! In good nights Skipper can be unstoppable...that is why italianBBlover with reason that can be a surprise....


I made quite a research on Skipper since they'll be Olimpija's oponets in top 16, anyway i'll be short: Imo if Vujanic, (maybee Basile) and Delfino are stopped so is Skipper (A.J. Guyton could surprise in the next stage) while Smodis and Mottola are not a briliant defenders at all...

But Skipper can be a whole different than that... imagine Vujanic, Basile, Delfino and Smodis scoring 20/30 from 3point lane- how many teams can defend against that kind of shooting?

IMNOO(In My Not Objective Opinion- since Olimpija is in the same group ) Skipper has the same chances being 1st as being 4th in this group...


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## J-Will2 (Aug 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> I made quite a research on Skipper since they'll be Olimpija's oponets in top 16, anyway i'll be short: Imo if Vujanic, (maybee Basile) and Delfino are stopped so is Skipper (A.J. Guyton could surprise in the next stage) while Smodis and Mottola are not a briliant defenders at all...
> 
> But Skipper can be a whole different than that... imagine Vujanic, Basile, Delfino and Smodis scoring 20/30 from 3point lane- how many teams can defend against that kind of shooting?
> ...


Skipper's gonna have a lot of trouble with players like Rahimic... They can't defend agile players under the rim


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## Virtuoso (Jan 26, 2004)

> The competition isn't nearly as uneven as americans think.


What you don't understand is that 99% of American basketball fans don't even know what the Euroleague is my friend. Seriously.


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## macijauskas1 (Dec 22, 2003)

Who cares what americans think ? 90% of them speak one language and don't know where Europe is , but they do know where are all McDonalds in 10 mile radius are:rofl:


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## J-Will2 (Aug 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>macijauskas1</b>!
> Who cares what americans think ? 90% of them speak one language and don't know where Europe is , but they do know where are all McDonalds in 10 mile radius are:rofl:


:yes: 
But I still think, you're overreacting just a little bit... 

After the results of the first round, we have seen Maccabi dominate (Zalgiris, led by Sabonis, shows to be a threat to Maccabi), Panathinaikos, CSKA and Efes did their job... 

Read some great threads about Euro basketball at 
The International Basketball Network > Europe

These guys really know their Eurobasket...


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>macijauskas1</b>!
> Who cares what americans think ? 90% of them speak one language and don't know where Europe is , but they do know where are all McDonalds in 10 mile radius are:rofl:


Hmmmmm.......

I DON'T have any McDonalds restaurants within a 10 mile radius of me.
I DO know where Europe is.
(I can even find Lithuania on a map!)

But you're right....

I can only speak one language:

















SABONIS-ese. 

JEGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## J-Will2 (Aug 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Crazy Fan From Idaho</b>!
> (I can even find Lithuania on a map!)


Can you find Slovenia 

I have bad experiences with Americans, knowing how we used to be Czechoslovenia and now we're indepent Slovenia :nonono:


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2004)

I'm rooting for Skipper just because Möttölä plays there. They can win anybody on any given day. Bad thing is they're not that consistent so they propably won't win it. They'll win their Group though.



> Originally posted by <b>J-Will2</b>!
> I have bad experiences with Americans, knowing how we used to be Czechoslovenia and now we're indepent Slovenia :nonono:


Ever heard the story (stupid for me to even ask this) when Americans were in Finland for military practices around 10 years ago and an Am.officer came to ask from finnish officer if there still is 30.000 russian soldiers in finland?:no:


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## Marco Mitis (Dec 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>J-Will2</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I have bad experiences with Americans, knowing how we used to be Czechoslovenia and now we're indepent Slovenia :nonono:


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

quote: 
Originally posted by macijauskas1!
"Who cares what americans think ? 90% of them speak one language and don't know where Europe is , but they do know where are all McDonalds in 10 mile radius are" 


I speak three languages, can name every country in Europe and find their location, and HATE McDonalds.

This was very ignorant and outright childish of you to say such. Oh, and for your information, I think at the very least twenty percent of us speak more than one language. 

The biggest reason you people learn English is because the U.S. the strongest nation on the planet, and virtually all of international business and other communication is done in English. 

Don't hate us because we are who we are. 

But I wonder, how can such ignorant slobs like we be such a mighty nation? Is it . . . luck? . . . or hard work? . . . 

Also - the U.S. and Ronald Reagan's policy is a big reason why the Soviet Union collapsed, hence releasing your country from half a century of bondage.

Your location is Chicago, so I assume you are on an extended business trip their or maybe that is your permanent residence. I don't know. You probably know Americans. But please, that was just immature, and inaccurate, something that a twelve-year old would say.

Just have some sense because I sure know Lithuanians (or whatever you are) are far from perfect, just like any other people.


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

*Oh for goodness sakes.....*

LIGHTEN UP, ALEX!!!!!!!!!

He was joking around. Don't be so fast to take offense. 

If Americans are so great, how come they can't take a joke on themselves? 

C'mon.....This is an international forum. I wouldn't have it any other way. Face it, even though you are exceptional knowing so many languages, knowing world geography so well, and eating such healthy food, most Americans are not like you. 

Truth be told......To my shame, I DON'T think I could find Slovenia on a map. It's my daughter who competed at the state level in the National Geography Bee----not me. 

Also, I am hopelessly monolingual. I admire greatly Euros living in a multi-lingual culture. 

So, go back to your enlightened, intellectual mansion on a hill and stop hatin' on my Liths (or on any non-Americans, for that matter).

Liths Rock.


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

I'm not hating. I love Europe. I spent three years of my life living near Frankfurt. I am an Italian citizen. I speak fluent Italian and German. I go to Marina Velca (45 minutes north-west of Fumicino (sp)) every summer to visit family and friends. I plan to live in Italy as an adult. I am part Italian, German, Swiss, French, Czech, Belgian, Dutch, English, and even a little Gypsy. I am proud to be each and everyone of those nationalities. In short, I love Europe. 

And ya, I know he was joking but I have heard SOOOOOOOOOO many times about how Americans are fat slobs, and maybe compared to other countries we are overweight, but still. That's beating a dead horse ten times over. 

And the fact is that most people in the U.S. aren't as ignorant as common belief. I go to a school where the average SAT is probably in the 1300-1400 range. This is very high, but there are many other institutions in my homwtown that have such high academic medians.

But I also do dislike many things about this country. This may sound hypocritical, but I think that we are a bit obese (not me though, I'm kinda skinny), I think that crime is redicoulesly high (I live in Milwaukee, wich has the highest murder rate and teen pregnancy rate in the nation per capita), I HATE abortion and strongly dislike the death penalty (luckily Wisconsin has neither), etc., etc., etc.

My point is that I am not that enamored with the U.S., but I find it very honorable to be who I am, 

And no, I live in no mansion. In fact, my family is probably in the middle of the middle class


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

LOL....You jump to the defense of Americans like I jump to the defense of Liths!!!! 

It's nice that you have such a high opinion of Americans. Hey....some of my best friends are Americans!  

I only took exception to your calling Macijauskas out as being childish when he was obviously joking. 

Sabonis JEGA!!!!!!!!


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

Understood
:yes:


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

An italian citizen defending the USA... An US citizen defending a lithuanian.... isn't that globalization?  anyhow , it's cool.


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ballstorm</b>!
> An italian citizen defending the USA... An US citizen defending a lithuanian.... isn't that globalization?  anyhow , it's cool.


Globalisation.

Hmmm....

I like that.

STuart


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## plop (Mar 17, 2004)

*No more - JGKoblenz*


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## TigerL (Jun 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!
> Zalgiris gets to Top16 as 16th team, and only on tiebreakers, but you put us in the poll. Thanks, I like such respect :grinning:
> 
> I just hope we dont get Maccabi in our group, cause its obvious they will play in Final Four no matter what. ULEB wont allow them not to win the group. The group with Maccabi can forget the sports.
> ...


Eeven though this is a very belatd reply I must say that I read a lot of your posts and you're really pathetic- your subjectivity really clouds you. I't obious (duh your name) that you're a Zalgiris fan, but clear your little brain and see the reality, Maccabi is just better than Zalgitis this year!!! I am a bit subjective on that too, but every expert will tell you that. We had a bad period, we lost once to your group and almost twice.... We beated you twice also. Tut then we came back and showed that we're the best grop in Europe!!! You can't eat that so you make up all of these conspiracy theories, I see you do that on several threads.... gave Maccabi seconds in that game .. and all. Have some respect for the best European team. I have respect for your team. Are you a child or one who presumes to ud basketball??? :upset: 
I understand you being depressed over that ending of the game, but what can you do -that guy had to miss his first fs in this moment of all moments, that your stuipd Bird went to the court. And that we had luck on top of talent, and players that never give up till it's over!!! 

For ****'s sake. Maccabi doesn't need ULEB, b/c it had the best combination of amazing of player that work *together*.... and the best choaching team and it's enough. There's no favours here, that's sport- the better one wins, even though sometime luck can help (like luck helped us  ). But get a grip! You want conspiracy theories go read books about it, there are plenty!


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## macijauskas1 (Dec 22, 2003)

Thats why I hate jewishsh fans and jewish teams-they never had, and never will have decent players in any sport, and the only chance to win something-to have talented foreigners on the team-I wpuld like to see jewish teams with only two foreigners limit-I am shure Kobe and Shaq wouldn't help. So-shut up, and stop bulshi..ing :upset:


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## TigerL (Jun 13, 2004)

You hate Jews b/c you're a moron...... and even if what you said was true, there were enough great Jewish people in any other field, THE important ones like sience and litrature, you name it. 

And I hate racits b/c they are pathetic, P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C! You are a very sad person, that needs therapy ASAP.


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## macijauskas1 (Dec 22, 2003)

n


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## ZZ (May 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>macijauskas1</b>!
> I am glad that in Lithuania after WW2 only 1% of your moron nation left.


:no: :no: :no: 
macijauskas, if you have something against jews keep it to yourself. There is no need to involve whole Lithuania. And please see your doctor.


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## Milos (May 4, 2004)

Macijauskas, get a life you ignorant moron.
get your playpen, sit there and shut up, your words make too many people see what kinda moron u are.

as much as u hate jews, the biggest answer would be that even tough there are so many people like u, you can never bring jews down.

nothing to add.


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