# Steph vs Brown: Out of Control



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

> The train wreck that is the Knicks jumped off the tracks again yesterday. Stephon Marbury said he's tired of losing while trying to play Larry Brown's way, and the coach responded by saying the star point guard should step up his play if he wants to do something about it.
> 
> "Maybe he's questioning what he can do. Maybe he's saying he can do more. That's the way I look at it," Brown said. Motioning to a nearby playing court, Brown added: "He's got a forum. He can put us right on his back and take us to the promised land. We've got 20 games." Brown said his approach hasn't changed all season, contradicting Marbury's assertion, and he added, "I've never given a guard more freedom than Stephon Marbury in my life.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-sbknix144661808mar14,0,7319517.story?coll=ny-sports-print


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*

You gotta feel the love.


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*

"I've never given a guard more freedom than Stephon Marbury in my life." said Brown...

Of course, his idea of freedom is the same as Stalin's...


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*I can't take it anymore...*

I've been sittin' back just reading the posts and I can't believe the dumb things posted. Granted, everyone is frustrated...including myself, but everyone is just playing the blame game. There are a number of certainties regarding our situation:

1) We still have a poorly constructed team...in a major way. 

2) Despite his talent, Marbury is still a loser

3) Playing in LB's system requires discipline, sacrifice, and effort (amazingly the same things required to be a winning team) and we have few players willing to bring it every game.

4) Marbury whines about no freedom and yet, when he was averaging 20/10 and we won, it was because we played very good defense and protected the ball...not because SM was "starbury". The timing was interesting in that we had won 2 in a row on the road and had played well enough to win the other 2 when Marbury spouted off. Interesting timing....wonder about his agenda.

5) Coaches are hired to bring a system in place...not to let the players coach the style they wish to play. Anybody think Stephon will coach someday? (no way)...or any great coach will abandon his philosophies? (See Phil and the "triangle"). Players bend or they are moved, not the other way around.

6) JC still sucks

7) The rookies are still good but still green

8) IT is great at TALENT evaluation but clueless how to assemble it into a team.

9) LB is still as much as a hard *** as ever.

10) This roster is still not nearly set

11) Everybody loves the offensive "flash" but few here seem to understand what it takes to be a champion. Ditch the shake and bakes and ankle busters and give me a "shut-down" defender and fundamental players and I'll beat you every time.

12) Like I said before the season....this is going to take 2-3 years

13) Kitty is hot


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## Chinatownballer (Oct 13, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*

O **** ALPHADOG'S BACK!!! Yea so anyway, i understand why you have low expectations for this season but the question that keeps creeping from the back of my mind is why we can't go back to our 6gamewinningstreak ways. I mean, have our guys forgotten how to play as a team? I don't think we have to go all out and revamp our roster. Even if Steph is a loser, that doesn't mean we can't win with him. We have guys that play with no heart ala Eddy Curry, JC, and Steph but we also have Francis, Nate, DLee, Frye, Woods, etc who play to win. If Larry Brown was as good a coach as you seem determined that he is then why doesn't he recognize what he has? He has a team that could potentially do what Larry Brown teams do to a certain extent. When the Knicks are on they can feed the post, they can share the ball, play d, and rebound the ball. We've seen what our guys can do. LB may be great at constructing a team that fits his style exactly but he sucks at seeing players' strengths and using them to the advantage of his system. I don't think we need players that fit the exact categories LB is looking for. What we need is to develope team chemistry and that's impossible if LB chases down every LB player he can find. It will take 2-3 years if LB neglects the abilities of his team but it could take less if he uses his players wisely.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*

Larry Brown Launches a Full-Court Rant 

Larry Brown and Stephon Marbury have vastly different ideas about what ails the Knicks. Logically, one of them is wrong. Brown is pretty sure it is not him. The debate could go on for months or years, but Brown all but declared it over on Tuesday, delivering a striking and harsh rebuke to Marbury's recent remarks. It was Brown's strongest response and his angriest, and perhaps his most honest appraisal since he became the Knicks' coach last summer. "Look, I've been coaching how many years?" said Brown, whose Hall-of-Fame career spans three decades. "I never left a team in worse shape than I got it. Not one. Now think about that. Think about me and think about the guy who's talking," he said, referring to Marbury. "I never left a team in worse shape. Never asked anything of my players any different than I'm doing right now. Think about that. Think about that. So the bottom line is, I want us to rebound, defend, share the ball, play hard. That's all. If you can't do that, if that's not important enough to you, it's not on me. It's not on me. And you owe it to your teammates to do that every single night if you care about the right things. We're 17-45, all right? So we've got to figure out a way to get better." 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/sports/basketball/15knicks.html


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*

I think everyone deserves blame, but also, Marbury is limited.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Larry Brown Launches a Full-Court Rant
> 
> Larry Brown and Stephon Marbury have vastly different ideas about what ails the Knicks. Logically, one of them is wrong. Brown is pretty sure it is not him. The debate could go on for months or years, but Brown all but declared it over on Tuesday, delivering a striking and harsh rebuke to Marbury's recent remarks. It was Brown's strongest response and his angriest, and perhaps his most honest appraisal since he became the Knicks' coach last summer. *"Look, I've been coaching how many years?" said Brown, whose Hall-of-Fame career spans three decades. "I never left a team in worse shape than I got it. Not one. Now think about that. Think about me and think about the guy who's talking," he said, referring to Marbury. "I never left a team in worse shape. Never asked anything of my players any different than I'm doing right now. Think about that. Think about that*. So the bottom line is, *I want us to rebound, defend, share the ball, play hard. That's all. If you can't do that, if that's not important enough to you, it's not on me. It's not on me.* And you owe it to your teammates to do that every single night if you care about the right things. We're 17-45, all right? So we've got to figure out a way to get better."
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/sports/basketball/15knicks.html


It's really funny he wants to wave around his resume and pound his chest. (He must have been listening to the Michael Kaye Show) Sorry LB I'm not buying it. You need to get some of the blame for having one of the worst records in the league. Last year's team had a way better record than this year. It is on LB, if they don't rebound, or defend then sit them down. That's the bottom line, I remember Larry sitting down Reggie Miller when he was coaching the Pacers because he missed a defensive assignment. If LB feels Steph isn't performing they way he should then bench him. All Larry Brown does is complain complain complain, but won't put in Lee who can rebound for you, if you looking for folks to rebound. The season is tanked anyway, it can't get any worse than this. Play the guys who you feel want to play for you and quit crying to the media. He is worst than Steph at this point. You big baby!


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: I can't take it anymore...*



alphadog said:


> I've been sittin' back just reading the posts and I can't believe the dumb things posted. Granted, everyone is frustrated...including myself, but everyone is just playing the blame game. There are a number of certainties regarding our situation:
> 
> 1) We still have a poorly constructed team...in a major way.
> 
> ...


Stop it I'm shy. :shy:


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*



> It is on LB, if they don't rebound, or defend then sit them down. That's the bottom line, I remember Larry sitting down Reggie Miller when he was coaching the Pacers because he missed a defensive assignment. If LB feels Steph isn't performing they way he should then bench him. All Larry Brown does is complain complain complain, but won't put in Lee who can rebound for you, if you looking for folks to rebound.


Well said, all he does is talk bad about players but the 3-5 players that give the most effort see the least mintues.(AKA the three rookies)I think LB should show up the vets and the players that dont play defense by starting the three rookies , who give the most effort. LB, your just as much to blame as steph.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*

*Michael Kaye reports:* Stephon Marbury's quote= stating he wants to talk about creditials and compare his 30 carear against my 10 year career, if he so great how come we are losing? He has a 20 year edge on me, he might be insecure. We live more on the present, LB always crosses the line, he always handles stuff through the media. I want to play in NY more than anything in this world, but If I can't I'm not going to cry about. Zeke does not need to mediate two grown *** men. I can co-exist I can't say the same for that other person. He can talk about me all he wants, but I'm not taking it no more, I'm going to defend myself.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*

*LB:* I went to the conf finals with Haywood Workman and Eric Snow. What does that tell you? Yea you the best PG in the league but we are 17-45 but it's the coaches fault. 

*Michael Kay:* If Stephon Marbury breaks one play just one, then LB should sit him down for the rest of the game. That's how you get them. You keep doing it for the rest of the season, there is no other solution than that. Where is Zeke with all this? How come he hasn't mediate between these two? It's like Reggie Jackson and Billy Martin. I wouldn't be surprise he slugs LB on the court. Zeke is the President and General Manager of the team, and he has done nothing, then he is a complete fraud. Almost 50 percent of Steph's career and he hasn't gone deep in the playoffs. What does that tell you? Steph needs to show me a body of work.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*



Krstic All Star said:


> "I've never given a guard more freedom than Stephon Marbury in my life." said Brown...
> 
> Of course, his idea of freedom is the same as Stalin's...


Dude, you've got to say honestly that's true, look at what he did to fricking Chauncey back in '05 and look at what he's doing now in '06 from Brown to no Brown, you can tell the difference in his game. Same with Marbury, Marbury gets controlled now more because of Brown, but Marbury ignores a lot of the things that Brown says when he's on the sideline.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*

This Is It! I've Had It! No More Arguing! We're The Worst Team! Everybody Gets Blame! Stephon For Not Listening, Larry For Having Such A Short Leash, Isiah Being An Idiot, Players Not Showing Enough Heart, Players Wondering Why They Don't Get Playing Time When They Haven't Earned It! Somebody Better Start Pouring Their ****ing Hearts Out Every Night And Play For The Love Of The Game, Not For The ****ing Money Or The Glory!


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Amazing....*

Complain when LB plays guys who don't listen, then complain he has a short leash when he doesn't. While he is not without blame, I suspect that he is finding out who is willing to do what it takes to win. Starbury can say anything he wants but the fact is that he has done nothing and LB has. Until he has accomplished something meaningful he should keep his trap shut. In response to SM's question aboout why they are losing if LB is a great coach.....you can wrap a pig in silk and lace but it's still a pig. The Knicks are a pig right now and no amount of coaching is going to make this roster a winner.

China.....the Knicks CAN win and do what is neccessary but they WON'T. If they won't do it, they have to go. You would think the light would come on when they win when doing it LB's way but so far it has not. They're either too dumb or too lazy. Either way they have to be replaced by players who WILL do it on a nightly basis.


Kitty...sorry....I was uncharacteristically flustered by the thought of a combination catwoman/Knickfan...mea culpa


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Amazing....*

Larry Brown's trying to ship off Marbury.


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Steph vs Brown: out of Control*



Gotham2krazy said:


> Dude, you've got to say honestly that's true, look at what he did to fricking Chauncey back in '05 and look at what he's doing now in '06 from Brown to no Brown, you can tell the difference in his game. Same with Marbury, Marbury gets controlled now more because of Brown, but Marbury ignores a lot of the things that Brown says when he's on the sideline.


I don't doubt any of that. Still, I find that LB's definition of freedom as relates to point guards is not quite the same as the meaning of the word when the rest of us use it.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Its obviously personal now , and with good reason .

steph has been insubordinate with his play for some time now , which is inexcusable and should have been getting sat the moment he showed signs of this , the problem is the knicks have a coach who is so specific with his pg wants it can and will regress the all around game of those who play that position under brown .

JC was definitely doing well as a back up pg especially at the end of the season , nate can get a team in their offense , of that i am sure . I feel if brown were willing to simplify his wants from the position when steph isn't in the game crawford and nate would play pg better and thus give brown more leverage when dealing with marbury .

as it is now you bench marbury , last nights game notwitstanding and you can just about bank on some bad all around play from the knicks because LB likes everything to start from his pg position and the guys manning the position outside of marbury cannot be the guys LB needs them to be, in fact they usually play worse than usual.

from marbury's side , your coach rips you from training camp , about your pg ability, selflessness and role on the team and you have tried very hard to make it work anyone who has seen marbury play this season can tell he has tried to meld his game into what brown wants, more importantly the tide is turning in NYC people are actually starting to not like marbury in new york (he is getting booed in the garden), which is probably the reason marbury is bringing this up now, the papers have backed brown from the beginning rain or shine even though brown has not been effective in getting any real changes in the knicks makeup as a team , everyone on the team is having a worse season offensively than they did last year , to me thats the biggest crime , and to top it off not only are they still a bad defensive team , they are also a bad offensive team now, at least last season they could say they were an avg. team on offense and this was when they ran the pick and roll 60 times a game. with the amount of offensive talent the team has that is a problem ...a huge one , because it means everyone is all screwed up ...except for jalen who has adapted , in no small part imo because he has played for brown before.

To me the constant ripping has torn the team down , because its not just marbury who has an issue with brown nor should it be , this is not detriot or indiana, New York's media is a completely different animal and you cant feed them stuff like this there is a bunch of of media outlets here and any negative comment can be a killer , and as many as brown has spewed out to me killed the team .

Defense is about effort and with a pack of non-defenders as the knicks generally are I remember the knicks started the season playing some pretty decent defense, but after a few weeks of browns's ripping the effort and hustle went out of it as well as its effectiveness . i believe they were connected and brown did it to himself. To me the players were doing because they believed in brown , but when brown started constanly ripping the players putting out for him , they had a near season long letdown, . How do you believe in someone who tells the world how little he thinks of you and your abilities?

you simply cant teach a team through the media in new york . And the sooner Brown sees that the better the team will be.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Grinch good post, I'm not even going to attempt to disagree.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

Do you guys feel that all articles written about NYK are all so redundant nowadays? Man I'm assed out with arguing, but good points Grinch and KAS


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Gotham2krazy said:


> Do you guys feel that all articles written about NYK are all so redundant nowadays? Man I'm assed out with arguing, but good points Grinch and KAS



yes its redundant , and its boring .

its like watching a fight between 4th graders and the media gets to play the role of instigators running back and forth telling either brwon or marbury what the other just said just to get them mad and get more comments , making the whole thing even worse.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Peace talks? :biggrin: 



> A truce was reached aboard Team Titanic yesterday. Sort of.
> Before the film session, Larry Brown pulled Stephon Marbury out of the room and they spoke briefly in a hallway. According to Marbury, Brown told him he has the power to ship him out of town but wants him back next season and wants their war of words to cease.


http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/63258.htm


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