# The Rose- Beasley watch



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

The two have been joined at the hip even before they were drafted in the sense everybody knew they would go 1-2 in the draft. The order in which they would go was fodder for basketball fans to discuss for a couple of months. 

Then after the draft, the two camps would either praise of put down Paxson because of the choice he made. 

A fun thing to do as the season goes on will be talk about the two after each and every game to see which one is not only playing better than the other, but helping their team win in the process. I know Miami has some good players other than Beasley, but we can still do this. 

After one game:

Rose 32 minutes 33%. 4 reb. 9 assists, 3 steals, 11pts

Beasley 27 minutes 29% 4 reb 0 assists 0 steals, 9 pts.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Ha, I was wondering when the official Rose/Beasley update thread would begin.

They're so different... so I'm not really sure what conclusions you can draw from the numbers... I'm just glad Beasley didn't go out and put up 30 and 12 in his debut (which I'm sure he'll do at some point this year), then I'd have to listen to all of the second-guessing.

edit to add: (also, Mayo shot 5 of 20 and 0 of 7 from three last night, ouch)


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

It causes debates and it is fun.

I agree not much science to it, but it will be interesting to read peoples views now, and if they change, etc;


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Dornado said:


> Ha, I was wondering when the official Rose/Beasley update thread would begin.
> 
> They're so different... so I'm not really sure what conclusions you can draw from the numbers... I'm just glad Beasley didn't go out and put up 30 and 12 in his debut (which I'm sure he'll do at some point this year), then I'd have to listen to all of the second-guessing.
> 
> edit to add: (also, Mayo shot 5 of 20 and 0 of 7 from three last night, ouch)


But Rose could also drop 30/10 on some nights too. After just one regular season game and some preseason games, I am quite happy with the Rose selection so far.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

I live in NYS so I got to watch the game last night and MB looked loss against a team that really wasnt going hard on defense. That said the best rookie on the floor last night was Chalmers


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Both guys are way different but I will tell you one thing, a night where Rose gets 11 and 9 is exactly what the Bulls want out of him (even though I think he can have way better games easily in his rookie season) but Beasley's game is not what the Heat expect from him. 

Chalmers had the best night out of all the rookies but I think its fair to say that hes surrounded with much better talent than most Rookie PG's.

That being said ESPN already came out with their rookie rankings lol.

1. Kevin Love - Had a very good first game. 
2. Derrick Rose - Could have easily ended the night with 12 ast if his guys would have made all those open jump shots at the end of the game but oh well.
3. Marc Gasol- Awesome debut
4. Darrell Arthur - 11 points 15 Rebounds 2 blocks 1 ast in 27 minutes lol wow, it takes Thomas about 40 minutes to fill out a stat sheet like that.
5. Mario Chalmers - very good debut.

Here are the rest of the ESPN rankings.

6.Jason Thompson
7.Rudy Fernandez
8. Russell Westbrook 
9.Brandon Rush 
10. O.J. Mayo 

want to see the rest go here http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/rookies/rankings


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

After two games each

Rose 30 minutes a game 39% shooting. 4 reb 5 assists 2 steals 3.5 TO 14.5 points He has taken 23 total shots in two games

Beasley 27 minutes 38% shooting 6.5 reb No assists .5 steals .5 blocks 1.5 TO 13.0 points a game


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Rose 6 games 36.2 minutes a game 49%, 33% threes 84% fts 3.7 rebs 4.5 assists 1.17 steals 3 TO 17.8 pts a game, second leading scorer on the team. 

Beasley 5 games 33 minutes a game 46% 25% threes 91% fts 6.8 rebs 1 assist .8 steals 1.2 blocks 1.8 TO 17.6 pts a game. second leading scorer on the team.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> Rose 6 games 36.2 minutes a game 49%, 33% threes 84% fts 3.7 rebs 4.5 assists 1.17 steals 3 TO 17.8 pts a game, second leading scorer on the team.
> 
> Beasley 5 games 33 minutes a game 46% 25% threes 91% fts 6.8 rebs 1 assist .8 steals 1.2 blocks 1.8 TO 17.6 pts a game. second leading scorer on the team.


Pretty amazing that Beasley was billed as the NBA ready scorer, and yet Rose is matching him shot for shot.

This should be a close ROY race between these 2 guys.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

People were debating who the Bulls should pick. The answer is the Bulls should pick both of them. We should've packaged Deng and whoever to get the second pick and draft beasley. Beasley is going to be one of the best scorer in the league for a long time.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Rose 7 games 37.3 minutes a game 46% 25% in threes 83% fts 3.9 rebounds 5.1 assists 1.14 steals, 0 blocks 3 turnovers 17.7 pts a game

Beasley 6 games 33.3 minutes a game 44% 25% threes 92% fts 6.3 rebounds 1.2 assists .8 steals 1 block 1.67 turnovers 16.3 pts a game.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Derrick Rose assist numbers would be close to 10 per game if his team mates could hit an open shot!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Remember when we where talking about Rose maybe averaging 13 ppg and 4 ast at BEST, man Rose is the real deal.

Whats scary is that Rose is not even the teams #2 scoring option and hes averaging 17 ppg, if he was the only offensive player on this team he would be averaging 22 ppg, as a rookie thats pretty damn sweet.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I think he's being used in just the right way, in that we're letting him cater to things he was comfortable with. The drive and kick is the perfect example, he's so good at it because he did it in college alot. I also don't see anyone calling him out on mistakes, he's made plenty of bad turnovers but he's a smart enough guy to know when he does something dumb.

My only concern, are we over using him already? He's already at 37 minutes a game, I had in mind more like 32 min/game. And it'll be even worse with Hinrich out for 12 weeks. If he were a veteran I wouldn't be as concerned, but he's only 20 years old and could hit a wall with over use.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Remember when we where talking about Rose maybe averaging 13 ppg and 4 ast at BEST, man Rose is the real deal.
> 
> Whats scary is that Rose is not even the teams #2 scoring option and hes averaging 17 ppg, if he was the only offensive player on this team he would be averaging 22 ppg, as a rookie thats pretty damn sweet.


I'm holding out hope that John Paxson realizes that the next two years are basically to get Derrick Rose acclimated to the NBA season and game, before hopefully luring a free agent big man (Bosh or Stoudemire) to come play in the 3rd largest market next to Rose and Deng.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Don't forget O.J. Mayo. This guy is going to be special. Remember, people were talking about him when he was in High School just like LeBron James. Rose-Beasley-Mayo, what a threesome!!


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

Mayo has had 2 great games in a row so far. Damn, he's gonna be a major threat and contender for the ROY award!


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Yes he is. Its time to change the title of this thread. Funnily enough though, he reminds me a bit of a smaller version of Paul Pierce. Not as aggressive attacking the rim, but he just reminds me of him nonetheless.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

So now that we have a small NBA sample to work from who do these two players most resemble 

W/Rose I've heard everything from S.Francis to J.Kidd

and w/ Beasley i've heard from Melo to D.Coleman


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Merk said:


> So now that we have a small NBA sample to work from who do these two players most resemble
> 
> W/Rose I've heard everything from S.Francis to J.Kidd
> 
> and w/ Beasley i've heard from Melo to D.Coleman


Based on just the 10 games I've seen, I'd say:

Rose: I have no idea. He's so unique I don't really have a comparison. A shorter, much lighter version of Lebron, maybe? Frankly, he plays with more control than Francis ever did, and he's more explosive. But he isn't the pure playmaker yet that Kidd is, though he is a MUCH better scorer.

Beasley: He's looking more like Big Dog to me thus far. Settling for jumpers ALOT. NOT shooting a great FG percentage for a combo forward.

Frankly, I think Beasley hasn't lived up to expectations so far. Remember when people were penciling him in for 24 and 10 during summer league? And rose was supposed to struggle just to find playing time? What a difference a few months make.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

The Krakken said:


> Based on just the 10 games I've seen, I'd say:
> 
> Rose: I have no idea. He's so unique I don't really have a comparison. A shorter, much lighter version of Lebron, maybe? Frankly, he plays with more control than Francis ever did, and he's more explosive. But he isn't the pure playmaker yet that Kidd is, though he is a MUCH better scorer.
> 
> ...


Completely agreed on Beasley -- he's very skilled for a guy his size, but I have NOT seen the inside post game that some folks raved about. Maybe I just miss those parts when I tune into the Heat, but almost every time Beasley scores it seems to be a driving layup (really his best move, IMO) or a jump shot. No doubt he will average 20 ppg or more throughout his career, but in terms of being a CONSISTENT threat in the low post...I don't know, he doesn't seem anything like Boozer or Brand down on the low block. His low post game is more a complementary move like Carmelo -- he's a small forward in a power forward's body. I'll buy the Big Dog Robinson comparison for sure. Both very talented, versatile scorers who will score from anywhere, although Beasley is bigger than Big Dog (ironically) and should be a little better.

Rose's rookie season is most similar to Steve Francis (back when he was THE FRANCHISE), but this is only in terms of their physical abilities and style of play. Rose has all the mental qualities of a superstar, whereas Francis lacked this (oh yeah, and he was a head case!). I guess what I'm saying, Rose will become everything that Steve Francis should've been.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Beasley is only 19. Young players have varying success in their rookie year. Even Biedrins struggled on the glass as a 21 year old playing 30 mins a game but you could see his room for growth and now he averages 15 boards a game.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

The '93 Heat said:


> Beasley is only 19. Young players have varying success in their rookie year. Even Biedrins struggled on the glass as a 21 year old playing 30 mins a game but you could see his room for growth and now he averages 15 boards a game.


Oh no doubt. Don't mistake my comments for a projection. I'm out of the projection business. Its more an observation of what I've seen thus far than anything else.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

yodurk said:


> Completely agreed on Beasley -- he's very skilled for a guy his size, but I have NOT seen the inside post game that some folks raved about. Maybe I just miss those parts when I tune into the Heat, but almost every time Beasley scores it seems to be a driving layup (really his best move, IMO) or a jump shot. No doubt he will average 20 ppg or more throughout his career, but in terms of being a CONSISTENT threat in the low post...I don't know, he doesn't seem anything like Boozer or Brand down on the low block. His low post game is more a complementary move like Carmelo -- he's a small forward in a power forward's body. I'll buy the Big Dog Robinson comparison for sure. Both very talented, versatile scorers who will score from anywhere, although Beasley is bigger than Big Dog (ironically) and should be a little better.
> 
> Rose's rookie season is most similar to Steve Francis (back when he was THE FRANCHISE), but this is only in terms of their physical abilities and style of play. Rose has all the mental qualities of a superstar, whereas Francis lacked this (oh yeah, and he was a head case!). I guess what I'm saying, Rose will become everything that Steve Francis should've been.


Big Dog is 6'8 and rebounded very well in college like beasley, i think thats a great comparison


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

roux2dope said:


> Big Dog is 6'8 and rebounded very well in college like beasley, i think thats a great comparison


Except Beasley is well ahead of Big Dog in the ball handling department... at 19 even.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Dornado said:


> Except Beasley is well ahead of Big Dog in the ball handling department... at 19 even.


that maybe be true, but let me know when Beasley develops a silky smooth mid range jumper, and they are both bad defensive players, but not too many are worse than Robinson


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

roux2dope said:


> that maybe be true, but let me know when Beasley develops a silky smooth mid range jumper, and they are both bad defensive players, but not too many are worse than Robinson


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Rhyder said:


>


touche eace:


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

roux2dope said:


> Big Dog is 6'8 and rebounded very well in college like beasley, i think thats a great comparison


People thought I was crazy when I made that comparison before the draft.......


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> People thought I was crazy when I made that comparison before the draft.......


Eh, I think I mostly made the same point about his ball handling. Also, I think Beasley may be a little better at going to either hand. 

The biggest difference may end up being the motor... Beasley (at least the college version, which is mostly what I saw) seems like he has a little more heart/energy on the court than Big Dog did in the pros.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Eh, I think I mostly made the same point about his ball handling. Also, I think Beasley may be a little better at going to either hand.
> 
> The biggest difference may end up being the motor... Beasley (at least the college version, which is mostly what I saw) seems like he has a little more heart/energy on the court than Big Dog did in the pros.


That may be, but comparing their college careers, its easy to see that Big Dog was just as "energetic" if not moreso, than Beasley. You should look over his numbers again to appreciate just how dominant he was in college. This is the same metric people used to turn Beasley into the 24 and 10 monster people thought he was going to be out of the gate.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> That may be, but comparing their college careers, its easy to see that Big Dog was just as "energetic" if not moreso, than Beasley. You should look over his numbers again to appreciate just how dominant he was in college. This is the same metric people used to turn Beasley into the 24 and 10 monster people thought he was going to be out of the gate.


Yeah, I have a lot of respect for Big Dog, trust me. But we also have to remember that Robinson played 2 years of college ball.... as a freshman Beasley grabbed over 3 more rebounds per game than Robinson did. Robinson, despite the criticism that comes with being the #1 pick, had a solid career.... I certainly could see Beasley following a similar track, but I think Beasley's ceiling may be higher... and like I said, seems like the motor is running a bit more.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

roux2dope said:


> that maybe be true, but let me know when Beasley develops a silky smooth mid range jumper, and they are both bad defensive players, but not too many are worse than Robinson


Beasley does seem to have a silky smooth jumper already. 

As far as Rose vs. Beasley....so far Rose is winning. Part of that is that Rose is relied on more by Chicago than Beasley is by Miami. But most of it seems to be that Rose is just a really intelligent player in addition to a great prospect. Looks like you guys made the correct pick so far. :cheers:


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

Flash is the Future said:


> Beasley does seem to have a silky smooth jumper already.
> 
> As far as Rose vs. Beasley....so far Rose is winning. Part of that is that Rose is relied on more by Chicago than Beasley is by Miami. But most of it seems to be that Rose is just a really intelligent player in addition to a great prospect. Looks like you guys made the correct pick so far. :cheers:


Beasley had an all-star playing beside him which would have really taken away the shine off him. I think he will be a beast once Marion is gone. Don't think you guys can go wrong with Beasley too. eace:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Rose 15 games 37.7 minutes 49% 37% threes 85% fts 3.9 reb 5.7 assists 1.1 steals .2 blocks 2.8 TO 19.0

Beasley 14 games 29.9 minutes 45% 33% threes 83% fts 5.5 reb 1.4 assists .7 steals .6 blocks 2.00 TO 14.8

Bulls are 7-8 Heat are 7-7


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Count me really surprised that Beasley is struggling this much. I had him pegged as an immediate 20 ppg scorer (ala Durant, Melo) who would shoot in the upper 40's. I just haven't seen him posting up enough; too many jumpshots. Again, I haven't seen too much of the Heat.

Man, I'm really glad we didn't choose Beasley though. I'm sure he'll be fine, eventually, but to have a PG who can do it all is really rare.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Count me really surprised that Beasley is struggling this much. I had him pegged as an immediate 20 ppg scorer (ala Durant, Melo) who would shoot in the upper 40's. I just haven't seen him posting up enough; too many jumpshots. Again, I haven't seen too much of the Heat.
> 
> Man, I'm really glad we didn't choose Beasley though. I'm sure he'll be fine, eventually, but to have a PG who can do it all is really rare.


He would have struggled more with us because Hinrich is hurt. Who would get him the ball? We would not be 7-8 and we would be screaming for the bulls to blow up the team.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> He would have struggled more with us because Hinrich is hurt. Who would get him the ball? We would not be 7-8 and we would be screaming for the bulls to blow up the team.


Not to mention the outrage at how Derrick Rose would be producing for [presumably] the Miami Heat.

I know that Rose may seem like the "obvious" choice with the #1 pick, but let's not forget this was NOT a no-brainer for the Bulls. Of course, 90% of Chicago wanted Rose; however it seemed to me like most experts in the outside media thought we should take Beasley for his post-scoring.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Beasley is a great talent. I would really love to have both him and Rose on this team (dreaming is nice). The problem with Beasley is, like many said, he's playing with a superstar. So he doesn't really have to carry much load and the Heat coaching staff is probably holding him back a little bit since they probably want him to think about how to complement Dwyane Wade as oppose to just go out there and do anything you want.

I think Beasley is similar to Kevin Durant and Rashard Lewis. But Beasley is much better than them. The guy can definitely be a number one option in Carmelo Anthony mold. But I'd still rather have Rose instead of Beasley. Beasley with the Bulls will score a lot. But he wouldn't complement our players well. Because he's not a pure back to the basket player or a penetrator like Rose.

The reason we're 7-8 so far is because guys like Nocioni and Gooden benefits from Derrick Rose ability to create space for them to shoot. The Bulls have a lot of shooters which spread other team's defense. Derrick Rose ability to penetrate make us tougher to defend. How many times did we see Gooden and Nocioni get open? many times. Beasley probably wouldn't be able to create this.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Count me really surprised that Beasley is struggling this much. I had him pegged as an immediate 20 ppg scorer (ala Durant, Melo) who would shoot in the upper 40's. I just haven't seen him posting up enough; too many jumpshots. Again, I haven't seen too much of the Heat.
> 
> Man, I'm really glad we didn't choose Beasley though. I'm sure he'll be fine, eventually, but to have a PG who can do it all is really rare.


Yodurk, I think of you as perhaps one of the 5 most level-headed bulls posters we have. But on this, I thought you were being ridiculous. I had him PEAKING at about 20PPG. ESPECIALLY after his height became known. Once that became known, I threw out the dominant post man comparisons. Charles barkley he is not.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> Yodurk, I think of you as perhaps one of the 5 most level-headed bulls posters we have. But on this, I thought you were being ridiculous. I had him PEAKING at about 20PPG. ESPECIALLY after his height became known. Once that became known, I threw out the dominant post man comparisons. Charles barkley he is not.


I think 20ppg as a peak is underestimating Beasley... even the Big Dog put up 23 ppg, and Beasley seems like the better ball handler, and more aggressive (as I mentioned before). 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if he became a 23-25 ppg scorer in this league... it may take some time, but the kid can shoot, jump, and go to either hand.

I will agree that he's no Charles Barkley.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Dornado said:


> I think 20ppg as a peak is underestimating Beasley... even the Big Dog put up 23 ppg, and Beasley seems like the better ball handler, and more aggressive (as I mentioned before).
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised at all if he became a 23-25 ppg scorer in this league... it may take some time, but the kid can shoot, jump, and go to either hand.
> 
> I will agree that he's no Charles Barkley.


I agree that 20ppg is too low. But people were making Silly projections:

"he's going to be a 20/10 guy from day 1".

"He's going to average 25 and 12".

It just seemed ridiculous.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> I agree that 20ppg is too low. But people were making Silly projections:
> 
> "he's going to be a 20/10 guy from day 1".
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think people forget that guys who have had that kind of rookie impact generally rounded their games out in the college ranks first... Beasley is super young.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Charles Barkley didn't have to worry about the five second back-to-the-basket rule, so he was able to turtle his way to the hoop. 

Nevertheless, even if the rule didn't exist, Beasley is no Round Mound of Rebound.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The Krakken said:


> Yodurk, I think of you as perhaps one of the 5 most level-headed bulls posters we have. But on this, I thought you were being ridiculous. I had him PEAKING at about 20PPG. ESPECIALLY after his height became known. Once that became known, I threw out the dominant post man comparisons. Charles barkley he is not.


Peak? 20 ppg only in this no defense playing league?

Wow, lol I mean if Luol Deng who doesnt even have one tool better than Beasley can come close to 20 ppg I'm pretty sure Beasley could easily average over 20 sooner than later.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> Charles Barkley didn't have to worry about the five second back-to-the-basket rule, so he was able to turtle his way to the hoop.
> 
> Nevertheless, even if the rule didn't exist, Beasley is no Round Mound of Rebound.


Are we talking about fat Rockets Barkley or explosive dominant Barkley that played for the Sixers and Suns?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

derrick Rose 16 games 37.8 minutes 48% 37% threes 4.1 reb 5.8 assists 1 steal .2 blocks 2.75 TO 18.4 pts a game

Michael Beasley 15 games 29.9 minutes .445% .263 in threes 5.4 reb 1.3 assists .7 steals .6 blocks 1.93 TO 14.7 pts


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Derrick Rose 22 games 38.7 minutes 49% 30% in threes 80% FTS 3.8 Reb 6.3 assists 1.1 stls .03 blocks 2.82 TO 18.0 pts a game

Michael Beasley 21 games 27 minutes .447% 35% threes 79% FTS 5.2 Reb. 1.0 assists .07 stls .05 blocks 2.00 TO 13.9 pts a game


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Poor Beasley hes got his minutes cut in half in December so far only averaging 19 minutes and scoring only 11 ppg. At some point in time the Heat need to say goodbye to Marion. 

Its nice to see the Chalmers love die down a bit now lol.


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