# Rockets/Sun thread



## TRACIELOVESCOMETS (May 14, 2003)

Who will win tonight?


Sun will win 89-82


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## Starks (Feb 22, 2004)

I'm having a hard time believing the Rockets will lose this game. Although, if they don't take the Suns seriously then they could falter.


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

I think the Suns are a total mess right now, the Rockets are the favourites to win this game. :yes:


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

No way Suns will win
Rockets 93 Suns 82


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

[strike]Rockets fans are the most arrogant bunch of whiners that you can ever find.[/strike]

Everytime before a Suns-Rockets game you go to a rockets board like clutch and everyone keeps saying we will easily win and what happens if the Rockets get blasted again... Just like last time? They find some lame excuses and start the same garbage again the next game.

EDIT: Do not provoke team fans


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> [strike]Rockets fans are the most arrogant bunch of whiners that you can ever find.[/strike]
> 
> Everytime before a Suns-Rockets game you go to a rockets board like clutch and everyone keeps saying we will easily win and what happens if the Rockets get blasted again... Just like last time? They find some lame excuses and start the same garbage again the next game.


Actually, if you go to the Clutch board, there are a lot of people predicting the Rockets will lose. Check it again.

Stuart


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> [strike]Rockets fans are the most arrogant bunch of whiners that you can ever find.[/strike]
> 
> Everytime before a Suns-Rockets game you go to a rockets board like clutch and everyone keeps saying we will easily win and what happens if the Rockets get blasted again... Just like last time? They find some lame excuses and start the same garbage again the next game.


OK there, I make the same prediction for Rockets against any other team the same. I said they'd beat Hornets, they beat Hornets. I said they'd beat Grizz, they beat Grizz. So what's wrong with saying they'd beat the Suns? If the Suns win, good for them, the only bad thing I'd end up saying would probably be about how Francis or Mobley played a bad game (haha). 

What a hypocrite...


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Amare has gotten off to a slow start, 0-9. Rockets have let the Suns back into the game, leading by 19 at one point.

*Rockets* 40 - *Suns* 28

4:00 left in the 2nd.

Amare has been getting to the foul line with ease, already attempted 12 FT's!


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

10 pts 10 reb 2blk at the half and he has missed a ton of shots tonight that are automatic for him usually.

Rockets are 9-14 from the 3.

For most of the half it looked like Amare vs 5 Rockets on offense.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Ouch, Amare with the facial on Yao, and Francis sticks up for the big man by shoving Amare.

Immature act by Amare. He may be able to dunk on Yao, but doesn't have much else on him.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> Immature act by Amare. He may be able to dunk on Yao, but doesn't have much else on him.


I think what Francis did was eqully as bad. In fact, I doubt after Amare dunked the ball, he knew that Francis was right behind him. So Amare yelled (not purposely in Steve's face because he didn't know he was there). It wasn't until Steve did that cheap shot that Amare knew he was there. I know it's good to stick up for teammates but if that includes hitting people with forearm shivers from their blind side, I don't agree.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Amare is turning it on, his quickness is electrifying!

Amare 
12 points, 10 reb, 2 blk
2-13 from field, 8-12 FT

Yao
12 points, 7 reb, 2 blk
5-8 from field, 2-2 from line

Take more shots Yao...

Finally Yao stuffs Amare!

63 - 60 Rockets lead with 2:45 left in the 3rd. This could turn into a close one.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> 
> 
> I think what Francis did was eqully as bad. In fact, I doubt after Amare dunked the ball, he knew that Francis was right behind him. So Amare yelled (not purposely in Steve's face because he didn't know he was there). It wasn't until Steve did that cheap shot that Amare knew he was there. I know it's good to stick up for teammates but if that includes hitting people with forearm shivers from their blind side, I don't agree.


I didn't support what Francis did, but I can't agree with Amare taking a chapter out of Ricky Davis's book.


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## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

Yao finally answered back with a facial...


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Francis just made the smartest play of the game, PASSING the ball to Jim Jackson.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

88 - 85 Rockets lead with 13 seconds left, but Phoenix has the ball. They will likely go for the quick two then the foul.

Edit: Marion with the clutch 3! 88-88 Overtime.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

TGFJJ! Jim Jackson with 7 3-pointers tonight.

Rockets lead 96-95 with 38 seconds. Phoenix ball. Finally the Houston crowd is really getting into it.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Joe Johnson hits an insane shot to put Phoenix up by 2. Why does this always happen to the Rockets :upset:.

1.6 seconds left to save their 5 game winning streak.


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## RocketFan85 (Jun 8, 2003)

After watching the Rockets loose this game I can only hope and pray that Francis will not be in a Rocket uniform next year. He had one of the worst games I have ever seen today. The Rockets will never, I repeat, never go anywhere as long as Francis has a Rocket uniform on. Kiss the playoffs good bye, they will not get past the 1st round. Please Lord, let the Rockets somehow get rid of the cancer of Francis.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

Wow. Yao was more or less unstoppable whenever he touched the ball. Was fouled, found the open man or made the shot. He didn't seem to get nearly enough touches and it looked to my amateur eye that he could have had a lot more touches.

I think the Rockets should trade Yao. Or, learn how to use him right. Either way, the Rockets should stop wasting him.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RocketFan85</b>!
> After watching the Rockets loose this game I can only hope and pray that Francis will not be in a Rocket uniform next year. He had one of the worst games I have ever seen today. The Rockets will never, I repeat, never go anywhere as long as Francis has a Rocket uniform on. Kiss the playoffs good bye, they will not get past the 1st round. Please Lord, let the Rockets somehow get rid of the cancer of Francis.


I agree, depending on how the Rockets do in the playoffs we will see what the market asks for Stevie...

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1064763#post1064763

and

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1065289#post1065289


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NYCbballFan</b>!
> Wow. Yao was more or less unstoppable whenever he touched the ball. Was fouled, found the open man or made the shot. He didn't seem to get nearly enough touches and it looked to my amateur eye that he could have had a lot more touches.
> 
> I think the Rockets should trade Yao. Or, learn how to use him right. Either way, the Rockets should stop wasting him.


He struggles against the quicker PF's and C's that front him, and the double teams were coming as soon as he got hot. Rockets trading Yao isn't an option... so they better fix their guard situation.

The Rockets can't expect to win these games with 25 turnovers. Their guards need to learn how to protect the ball and know where the rest of their team is (namely Yao), who to get the ball to and HOW to get the ball to that person. If they can't, then expect Dawson to bring in players that do.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> He struggles against the quicker PF's and C's that front him, and the double teams were coming as soon as he got hot. Rockets trading Yao isn't an option... so they better fix their guard situation.


I agree Yao still needs to improve on pinning the defender on a post-up. But being fronted isn't supposed to be the end of the world. Do the Rockets perimeter players ever pass over a fronting defender? I mean Yao is 7'6 with soft hands, and he's not a stiff. Or how about some quick ball movement that punishes the fronter by changing the angle of the pass and leading Yao to the basket?

I watch a lot of Nets games and Kidd passes over, through and around fronting defenders all the time. Granted, it's not easy, but the Rockets make it seem impossible.


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## The Next Movement (Dec 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RocketFan85</b>!
> After watching the Rockets loose this game I can only hope and pray that Francis will not be in a Rocket uniform next year. He had one of the worst games I have ever seen today. The Rockets will never, I repeat, never go anywhere as long as Francis has a Rocket uniform on. Kiss the playoffs good bye, they will not get past the 1st round. Please Lord, let the Rockets somehow get rid of the cancer of Francis.


The question is what team would have interest in Francis?


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NYCbballFan</b>!
> Wow. Yao was more or less unstoppable whenever he touched the ball. Was fouled, found the open man or made the shot. He didn't seem to get nearly enough touches and it looked to my amateur eye that he could have had a lot more touches.
> 
> I think the Rockets should trade Yao. Or, learn how to use him right. Either way, the Rockets should stop wasting him.


I hear ya. Yao could've easily had another 40pt game if he was given more touches from the beginning, but Houston got arrogant with their 3pt shooting and stuck to it until they lost their 21pt lead. 
Francis played so bad tonight I almost wish it was Barbosa running the point. How bad can you be against the trap? So bad that later he had to be bailed out by letting Mobley and JJ carry the ball to midcourt... what kind of PG are you?? Can't shoot, can't pass, can't control the ball, my gawd... Every player should be a contribution, but I swear the guy is a liability. He turns the ball over, kills the shot clock, takes bad shots, and pretty much does everything wrong. 
I hear AI wants out, Francis + Mobley for AI anyone?


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Yao Mania</b>!
> 
> I hear AI wants out, Francis + *Mobley* for AI anyone?


Why do you want to trade Mobley?


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lynx</b>!
> 
> 
> Why do you want to trade Mobley?


'cuz Francis alone won't land us Iverson?
No I'm not serious about trading for AI. I like Mobley, but he's just not showing the consistency that's needed for a starting SG. He's been much better lately, but before it was just frustrating to see him jack up 20 shots in a game and make like 5, when he could improve his passing and look for Yao.
But no I don't want to get rid of Mobley, he's just my 2nd scapegoat if Francis ends up having a good game and I can't blame him for anything


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

If you don't like Mobley jacking up shots... you're gonna love Iverson.

Iverson will not be a Rocket, terrible fit here, this is Team Yao and Iverson won't accept that.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

About fronting defense on Yao. Seriously, why do the Rockets have such a hard time passing the ball to Yao when he's being fronted? Passing over the fronter is supposed to be a fundamental skill in feeding the post.

It seems to me Yao is perfectly capable of catching a high pass thrown over a fronting defender. If he needs to move his feet to catch a high pass, I'm sure he could do that. In the Mavs game, he caught a difficult high pass that Francis threw over the defense. Why don't the Rockets make that kind of pass regularly when Yao is fronted?

Conventional wisdom of why teams don't front Shaq is that the Lakers punish a fronting defense by throwing a ball over it, which results in a dunk. No reason why Rockets couldn't also punish a fronting defense, yet I never see them do it. It's one of the more frustrating aspects of watching Rockets games - Rockets guards intimidated by a 6'8 F fronting Yao when they could easily throw it over him to the 7'6 C with the outstretched arm.


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## RocketFan85 (Jun 8, 2003)

Don't know how many times I saw last night when Yao would be open and calling for the ball with his his hands up in the air, but somehow Francis or really anyone couldn't see him because of the trap. But tell me how many times do you miss a 7'6 center open in the post? I'd trade Francis for a bag of rocks just to get rid of his contract. Keep Mobley just get Francis out of town fast.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NYCbballFan</b>!
> About fronting defense on Yao. Seriously, why do the Rockets have such a hard time passing the ball to Yao when he's being fronted? Passing over the fronter is supposed to be a fundamental skill in feeding the post.
> 
> It seems to me Yao is perfectly capable of catching a high pass thrown over a fronting defender. If he needs to move his feet to catch a high pass, I'm sure he could do that. In the Mavs game, he caught a difficult high pass that Francis threw over the defense. Why don't the Rockets make that kind of pass regularly when Yao is fronted?
> ...


What I saw many times (not yesterday) were the result of the help-defenders hovering around the opposite post area in order to stop the lobs.

Houston as a team has hard time passing/lobbing the ball to Yao when he gets good position. It's only usually a split-seconds and many times they missed that. Part of the reason was Yao hardly can hold-down the good position he created. I actually think the perimeter players were doing an OK job recently to move the ball around for Yao to re-post and pass the ball to him when chances presented. I have no idea why this fronting thingy caused such a huge problem for Houston, as like you said it's one of the most simplest ball-movements in basketball. I think that's the combination of bad-passing, bad-positioning, too much attention towards Yao, and lack of ball-movements.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

It's one thing when Yao is skating around and providing no good target, but often, when the defense just SHOWS a front - Yao with his hand raised and the front defender not moving - the ball swings the other way, anyway. (More on this point below.)

Again, the principles for why teams don't like to front Shaq can be applied to Yao, if his teammates would cooperate.

Q: How often is the ball passed into Shaq, despite waiting help defense? A: Often. When a help defender is poised on the weak side, he tries to do two things: double-team on the catch or deflect the pass. With Yao's height, hands and mobility, a well-passed ball won't be knocked away. So, the concern is the double-team. The question then becomes - can Yao, like Shaq, score against a weakside double-team or AT LEAST move the ball to the open man? My opinion is that the improved Yao is fully capable of doing either.

So, the blame returns to the Rockets guards and JVG for not throwing the pass over the fronter and despite help defense.

Back to the point of Yao skating. I don't think the problem is even half Yao's fault. I think a big reason an active 6'8 F like Najera can cause Yao to skate is that Yao knows his teammates won't pass the ball over a fronter. Even the strongest bigs (ie, Shaq) will allow a Najera to run around him all day, front or rear, because Shaq knows his teammates will throw him the pass. Once Shaq has the ball in hand, it wouldn't matter if Najera was in front or behind him. The same should apply to Yao, but Yao is forced to skate because he knows he won't receive the pass when he's fronted.

Yao still needs to work on pinning a defender, but he's good enough already to receive at least 10-15 MORE touches in any given game. Especially against a smaller (and physically weaker) team like the Suns. The Rockets guards don't have any excuses. It's just incompetence, in my opinion. As much as I'm a fan of JVG, it's bad coaching, too.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

JVG's offensive sets are already in the hot seat, but I don't see how this is possible seeing that he doesn't have any. 

And his defense comes into question as well:

1. Why was defensive "star" AGriffin told to ease up on Marion if he was going to shoot the three? He wasn't even near the perimeter when Marion shot.

2. Cuttino Mobley switching with Yao, making Yao go chase Joe Johnson for the final shot. JVG underestimating JJ?

3. Master planner doesn't foul the Suns with 10 seconds left (assuming Rockets wait for a Suns player to put the ball to the floor), allowing Marion to hoist the 3. If he did it with the Mavs, why not with the Suns? Time is not an excuse, Marion took the shot with 3 seconds left in the game.

It is so dissapointing to see the Rockets go out like this after they had been playing so well. Makes you wonder if they have learned anything from the previous 5 games.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Johnson then used a Stoudemire screen and rather than double team on the pick, the Rockets left Yao alone on Johnson. Johnson worked his dribble on the Rockets' 7-6 center before taking off toward the baseline, nailing a 17-foot fadeaway with 1.4 seconds left.
> 
> "We were supposed to double team on that," Yao said. "There was supposed to be a trap. It was too loud and I couldn't hear anything. I was calling the guys, `Switch it.' "


60% deaf in his left ear :sigh:. And if there was supposed to be a trap, Mobley didn't have a clue.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

i dont like cutino, hes ignorant. he onced said that he passed too much. cuttino passing too much? yea right.

he woulld see yao right under the basket, the lane full, and not pass it to him.


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