# With the 8th pick in the NBA Draft the Toronto Raptors select:



## Porn Player

It's official. 

Take your pick and state your case. 

Rumours are already swirling that we might move the pick, however, BC has said that we're not 'actively shopping' the pick. But we can't trust that snaky bastard anyway. 

Chad Ford has us taking Waiters. 

NBAdraft.net has us taking Jeremy Lamb.

Hoopshype has us taking Lamb too. 

Draftexpress has us taking Lamb three.


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## seifer0406

I would be fine with Beal or Jeremy Lamb. We should still be starting DeMar and James Johnson since I don't think DD has the size to play the 3. imo DeRozan hasn't done enough to warrant the status of being our SG for the future. If Beal or Lamb outplays him we could always explore trade opportunities with DD. If those 2 can't outplay Demar then they shouldn't be starting anyway. We can use either one in the Barbosa role.

Damian Lillard if he falls to 8 could work too. Bayless is too fragile and Jose is Jose. The PG crop is slim this year but Lillard could be decent.


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## Wade County

No love for Perry Jones?


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## RollWithEm

I think I like Lillard better than Lamb or Waiters. He would be my best available for the Raptors unless MKG or Harrison Barnes somehow falls that far.


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## ballocks

damn.

peace


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## speedythief

Perry Jones seems to have a lot of Charlie Villanueva in him and I don't know if that's such a good thing.

I would've drafted Igoudala but I also would've drafted Adam Morrison. I'm going to abstain from picking a pony this time around.


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## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> I think I like Lillard better than Lamb or Waiters. He would be my best available for the Raptors unless MKG or Harrison Barnes somehow falls that far.


Lillard is too much like Bayless. 



That said, his defensive instincts seem on a higher level and that's the one thing Jerryd misses so I'd love to snatch him up, then fire Bayless/Calderon + Ed Davis to Houston for Lowry + 16th pick. Then we could pick up Waiters (or whoever falls).


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## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> That said, his defensive instincts seem on a higher level and that's the one thing Jerryd misses so I'd love to snatch him up, then fire Bayless/Calderon + Ed Davis to Houston for Lowry + 16th pick. Then we could pick up Waiters (or whoever falls).


That would be a good way to add talent.


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## Junkyard Dog13

With the 8th pick the Toronto Raptors select Perry Jones Forward Baylor
6"10 220 kinda of a hybrid with his size, has the shooting range to the 3 and is said by some to be one of the better perimeter defenders. James Johnson is a good defender but very raw offense, Jones was a 14/5 guy this past year and is only 20, with polishing and about 20 LBS added he could in 2 years be almost good as Durant a middle class person's Durant or a rich man's AK 47.


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## Porn Player

Do not want Waiters. Seems like a tweener.


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## Porn Player

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> With the 8th pick the Toronto Raptors select Perry Jones Forward Baylor
> 6"10 220 kinda of a hybrid with his size, has the shooting range to the 3 and is said by some to be one of the better perimeter defenders. James Johnson is a good defender but very raw offense, Jones was a 14/5 guy this past year and is only 20, with polishing and about 20 LBS added he could in 2 years be almost good as Durant a middle class person's Durant or a rich man's AK 47.


If Perry can translate to an NBA 3, then I'm kinda digging the huge front court of Jones III/Bargnani/Valanciunas. 

If we could then move Amir + Jose for Lowry + 16th we get a starting PG and another pick to throw on the SG that drops. 

Lowry/Bayless
DeRozan/Austin Rivers
Perry Jones III/James Johnson
Bargnani/Ed Davis 
Jonas Valanciunas/Mags/Gray 

I really should be our GM.


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## Porn Player

I also like Lamb, seems to have a bit of everything and his game should transition to the NBA quickly.


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## RollWithEm

People everywhere other than Houston really value Lowry too lowly.


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## Porn Player

Amir and Jose are both good players. Don't forget Lowry doesn't want to stay in Houston.


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## -James-

RollWithEm said:


> People everywhere other than Houston really value Lowry too lowly.


That is what I've been thinking. I feel like it's pretty wishful thinking to think we could get him without coughing up the eighth.


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## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> Amir and Jose are both good players. Don't forget Lowry doesn't want to stay in Houston.


Amir and Jose provide absolutely nothing to Houston. They get worse with that trade.


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## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> If Perry can translate to an NBA 3, then I'm kinda digging the huge front court of Jones III/Bargnani/Valanciunas.
> 
> If we could then move Amir + Jose for Lowry + 16th we get a starting PG and another pick to throw on the SG that drops.
> 
> Lowry/Bayless
> DeRozan/Austin Rivers
> Perry Jones III/James Johnson
> Bargnani/Ed Davis
> Jonas Valanciunas/Mags/Gray
> 
> I really should be our GM.


Amir isn't anything great, I doubt he's worth the 16th, and Jose while still a good PG is getting old, and not worth Lowry.

Rockets hang up the phone on that trade.


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## Bogg

I've said it before, teams aren't falling over themselves to get their hands on Amir Johnson or Ed Davis. You're not getting a decent first rounder or a starting-quality point guard for either of them.


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## -James-

When I heard Lowry might be available, my first thought was the pick if we don't move up in the lottery (i.e. our pick now) and Davis. 

Even thought that was a bit of a reach.


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## Bogg

-James- said:


> When I heard Lowry might be available, my first thought was the pick if we don't move up in the lottery (i.e. our pick now) and Davis.
> 
> Even thought that was a bit of a reach.


I'd imagine Houston would jump on that immediately, given how Dragic played at the end of the year.


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## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> Amir and Jose provide absolutely nothing to Houston. They get worse with that trade.


They have Dragic who they seem happy to allow the reigns of the team. This leaves Jose to play his backup. Amir is young and has talent, he adds some grit, hustle and exhuberance that the Rockets frontcourt doesn't have. It would allow them to move one of their old towers (Dalembert probably). 

I would also like to point out Jose and Scola would be a great partnership. He would instantly become the best pass first PG on that roster.


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## Porn Player

And again... Lowry wants out, teams do not get worthwhile value when a player demands he wants out. 

If any team knows that, it's Toronto.


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## Porn Player

This does excite me.



> Perry Jones III sounds ready to tap into his considerable talent.
> 
> "I feel way more confident than I ever was at Baylor," said Jones. "Working out three times a day, I feel great. I see the potential I have. I'm actually using the potential I have.”
> 
> Jones, who is training at P3 Peak Performance, believes Baylor failed to maximize his skill set.
> 
> “Seeing the player that I've become over the past month or so, I wasn't used well at all,” Jones said. "For example, the first day we did a 25-shot drill. For college-range threes, I made 18-of-25. And from pro-range threes, I made 15-of-25. I didn't shoot threes well in college, and I barely shot the three -- I think -- because I was thinking a lot in college."
> 
> Jones struggled with poor shot selection and a tendency to disappear for long stretches of games.
> 
> "I was thinking instead of just playing off of instinct," Jones continued to explain. "And I had a team (around him). I didn't feel pressure to be a great scorer because I had so many other people who could score around me. Just now, I realized that it doesn't matter who's on my team or who's around me, it shouldn't hinder what I can do best -- and that's score the basketball.
> 
> "I think now, if I could do it over, I wouldn't let anybody get in the way of me being able to score the ball. I wouldn't think twice about shooting it. I'm probably the most confident that I've ever been (now)."


Link


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## Porn Player

PJIII getting up. Yikes.


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## Porn Player

Chad Ford thinks we're looking to move the pick for a big time wing player ala Rudy Gay. 



> Rhett (Toronto)
> 
> You still have Dion Waiters going to the Raptors, Chad. But all we keep hearing up here is that the Raptors are likely to move the pick. Any idea who would be available for the 8th pick in the draft?
> 
> Chad Ford (1:15 PM)
> 
> I agree that the Raptors are looking to move the pick. They've been trying to package it with another young player like Ed Davis and a vet (Bargnani or Calderon). I think they want a big time player on the wing so that they can lure Steve Nash this summer. The guy most people in the league believe they are after via trade is Rudy Gay. If they stay at 8, they want a player who can get to the basket. Thus ... Waiters at 8.


Link

I still can't respect him with his Waiters bullshit though. 

What does everyone think of the trade?


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## rocketeer

dragic is a free agent and lowry has two more years on a very reasonable contract. the rockets aren't going to just throw lowry away.

i could see them trading him for the 8th pick, but not for anything else mentioned in this thread. and even then, the rockets would have to have something lined up elsewhere because i highly doubt they want 3 picks in the 8-16 range.

i like lamb a lot for the raptors though they could grab someone like barnes if he fell or one of the pgs.


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## Junkyard Dog13

Lets get Rudy, We need a uprise and 2 rooks like said will not do that if we draft Perry/Rivers/Barnes, this team needs proven players another year gunning for the lotto ball could see BC Axed you may see a core of Davis Val Barnes/Perry/any other rook asa trio to build for years but MLSE and the fans will not wait 2-3 years. I say go with it.
Both Iggy and Gay are proven scorers and solid SF's this kinda trade of trading a top 10 pick for a vet is very different than when we dealt Hibbert for JO, thats the 1st thing when I tought of when I saw this thread.
The trade will make us better 15 games easily.


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## seifer0406

We aren't getting Rudy Gay or Iguodala, no need to discuss silly rumors.


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## seifer0406

My ideal scenario is we draft either Jeremy Lamb or Damian Lillard with the 8th. Trade Ed Davis for a 15-20 pick and draft either Dion Waiters/Austin Rivers/Kendall Marshall/Perry Jones

I want us to get a PG and a SG/SF from this draft.


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## lucky777s

Rivers measured out bigger than I thought. I am leaning toward him over Lamb at this point. Rivers has the desire and intensity that people question about Lamb and also brings the creativity and shooting that I like about Lamb.

Drummond is the wildcard if he is there at 8. Hard to pass on that potential, even though it does nothing to help us on the perimeter where we need so much help.

Barnes
Rivers
Lamb

is my board for 8. With Drummond potentially after Barnes. I don't think I pass on Barnes.


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## seifer0406

There is no way for Drummond to drop to us at 8. I would be surprised if he falls out of top 3.


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## Porn Player

BC talks about prospects 



> There is some uncertainty, one of the names you might expect to be on our list, Dion Waiters from Syracuse, pulled out of the entire process with no explanation. He left Chicago today to fly home. Again, I don't know what the reason is. Our interview was scheduled sometime this afternoon and it got cancelled. Everyone else obviously is in the same boat. Didn't show up for any of the testing from what I can tell. I'm not aware of all the details yet. That's just one example of the uncertainty at 8. There's some thought that someone promised him a slot somewhere in the top 10 and he's comfortable with that and that's why he shut everything down, but I can't verify that. I don't know the details there.
> 
> I think you're looking at different players at different psoitions. We've talked aobut finding the best talent, the best player available, moreso than position. If you can find the perfect blend of someone who would match up not only positionally but with talent, that's the best of all worlds. We talk a lot about the future of the point guard position and the 3 position and some of the uncertainty there. But I think we've got a couple 2 guards on the board, if a Beal comes sliding to us, we've gotta consider him. That's unlikely. If Harrison Barnes comes sliding to us, he's a 3, he's someone we would strongly consider. I mentioned Dion Waiters, he's definitely in our mix. Damian Lillard, a point guard, is in our mix and we might be one of the first teams that starts to really talk about the point guard position if you look at the teams ahead of us. That's not to say that another team might not jump up and try to get him earlier.
> 
> There's some picks in play there, which could potentially adjust the order. And based on team needs above us and what their needs and interests are, it could affect who's there for us. I would also just say there's a couple bigs, Andre Drummond may be staring at us at No. 8. He's got immense talent, the question is is he going to get there? He's a very nice young man, we just had the chance to sit down and talk to him. You gotta look at Jared Sullinger on the board at 8 if he's there. Great college career and I think he's got potential to have a solid NBA career.
> 
> So as I've indicated by name, there's quite a few different players there, but they also cover a variety of positions. Points, 2 guards, 3 guards and fours. You might even throw in some outliers there, Terrence Ross at Washington has shown well at previous workouts, and also today, and maybe even a Moe Harkless. Long player, played out of position in college at the 4, he's played all over the map but mostly 4, but projected to be a 3 and he's the youngest player in the draft and again great upside. There's a range of players when you're sitting at 8, you're obviously relying on what happens above you. We've gotta let the dust settle on selections 1-7.
> 
> Aagain, being in the room with all these other teams, there's a lot of information gathering, a lot of intel being derived from those conversations and we're trying to piece it together as much as possible. Also, there's a lot of smoke that blows at this time. Smokescreens are prevalent, it's a big chess game, no one wants to show their full hand. At this stage, we're looking to be prepared no matter what the circumstances are when 8 is on the board.


Video Link


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## Porn Player

Couple players he didn't mention? 

Lamb. Rivers. 

He really does seem enamored with the potential Harkless, unless this is a continual smoke screen.


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## Porn Player

Lillard, Kendall Marshall and T Ross working out with the team today. 

Updates to follow.


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## Porn Player

> Toronto Raptors ‏@Raptors
> Forward prospect Terrence Ross on what he needs to work on: "my ball handling and my strength..."


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## Porn Player

...


> Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
> Draft prospects don't come much more media polished than Kendall Marshall.


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## Porn Player

Marshall and Devoe Joseph


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## Porn Player

...



> Mike Ganter ‏@Mike_Ganter
> Kendall Marshall is as smart as everyone is saying. Fully prepared is best way to put it. Not a bad trait in a point guard.


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## Porn Player

Lillard


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## Luke

I am just not optimistic about this team's outlook at all. They really need to have better luck in the lottery because all stars are not lining up to sign in Toronto. Is Val at least coming over next year or what?


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## Porn Player

> Toronto Raptors ‏@Raptors
> .. @Dame_Lillard says he sees fit w/ #Raptors and likes #Toronto: "It's really lively, reminds me of Chicago


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## Porn Player

Luke said:


> I am just not optimistic about this team's outlook at all. They really need to have better luck in the lottery because all stars are not lining up to sign in Toronto. Is Val at least coming over next year or what?


Yes.


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## Bogg

Trade the eight to Houston for eighteen and Donatas Montiejunas so Jonas has someone to hang out with.


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## Porn Player

Another Bargnani? (one that can't shoot!) 


YES PLEASE.


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## RollWithEm

Did they make a promise to Dion Waiters?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/8036913/nba-wrapping-nba-draft-combine



> We know that Syracuse guard Dion Waiters received a promise on Thursday. As we reported in my wrap of Thursday's camp, a team in the lottery locked up Waiters. A source close to Waiters said he will not work out for any more teams before the draft and did not participate in the athletic or medical testing over the weekend.
> 
> Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo denied he made the promise, but some sources claim that the Raptors might still take him if they keep the pick. The Portland Trail Blazers and Phoenix Suns are two other likely teams. I'm skeptical, however, that Waiters' agent, Rob Pelinka, would agree to shutting down Waiters if the pick was that low in the draft.


What other team could it have been?


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## scdn

Players supposedly get promises all the time and still drop. Agents try to drum up the value of the players. "My player has a promise in the top 10 so if you want him, take him at your spot or trade up to get him."


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## Porn Player

I really hope not. 

Day 3 of the workouts today. Harrison Barnes. Austin Rivers. Jeremy Lamb. 

I'd love Barnes to fall to #8. I also like Rivers and his desire, something Lamb seems to lack.


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## Bogg

Porn Player said:


> Another Bargnani? (one that can't shoot!)
> 
> 
> YES PLEASE.


With Klieza already on the roster they could become the proxy Lithuanian national team. Become a big market team overnight.







(kidding, obviously, though it would be really funny)


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## Porn Player

BC is that you?


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## Porn Player

Some details from the day. 



> BIG workout THURS at ACC. 1st session featuring J. Lamb, G - UConn; A. Johnson, G - NC St., D. Bost, G - Miss. St.; K. English, G - MIzzou. 2nd session: S. Machado, G - Iona; D. Bost, G - Miss. St.; A. Rivers, G - Duke; cont.





> 2nd session T. Murray, G - Wagner College, H. Mutombo, G - W. Carolina. 3rd session: H. Barnes, F - UNC


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## Porn Player

Some emotion?



> Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
> Lamb walks out of ACC practice court w/ Raptors trainer, curses, slaps wall.


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## Porn Player

...



> Jay Satur ‏@jaysatur
> Stefanski says Lamb rolled his ankle early in first workout and was shut down. #Raptors #RTZ


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## Porn Player

Barnes


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## Porn Player

Must say, I am enjoying this news.



> Jay Satur ‏@jaysatur Lamb not doing post-workout media. Rivers impressive in scrum, seems very interested in landing here. #Raptors


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## Knick Killer

How would you guys feel if the Raptors drafted Austin Rivers?


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## RollWithEm

I would personally prefer Lillard or Marshall to Rivers. I think Lillard and Marshall have top 15 PG upside. I think Rivers has top 5 6th man upside. There's a difference there, albeit slight.


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## Porn Player

Rivers and Lillard have that superstar type potential. Marshall does not. 

We need a superstar type. 

That said, I want Barnes. By a country mile.


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## RollWithEm

I doubt Barnes will fall as far as those other 3, though.


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## Porn Player

I know, but it seems a few teams above us may be willing to move down.


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## seifer0406

I like Lillard much more than I like Rivers. I don't like Marshall at all, he doesn't look like a NBA starting PG to me.

Barnes would be great but I doubt we'll get him.


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## -James-

Alright boys, if we keep #8 I think I'm convinced that my guy is Terrence Ross.


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## Porn Player

More draft kids in.

Sully, PJ3, TJ, Henson.


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## Porn Player

...



> Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack
> Raps are taking care of their pre-draft guys: @Perry_Jones1 said hotel was the nicest hotel he's ever been to. #Raptors





> Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack
> Fun workout in Toronto today. Especially when Sullinger dropped the "no offense but most of you guys have never played basketball" gem.





> Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack
> Also: John Henson is easily one of the most affable soon-to-be pro athletes I've ever spoken to. Really enjoyable.


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## Porn Player

...



> apparently Stefanski said that this workout "muddied the water" for the Raptors


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## Porn Player

...



> Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
> One-word workout/interview impressions: T. Jones: solid; Sullinger: angry; Perry Jones: intriuging; Henson: jovial


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## Porn Player

..



> Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
> On Sullinger: was assured by a Raptors staffer he's a good kid; just feeling like the world is a bit against him these days.





> Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack
> Jared Sullinger on his back: "Yeah, my back is fine. Nothing is wrong with it. My back is fine."


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## Porn Player

..



> James Herbert ‏@outsidethenba
> Sullinger on draft stock slipping: "I support it because, day one, I’ve been an underdog, so it’s life. So I like it. Keep letting me slip."


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## -James-

Alright, it seems I do this every year, but I pretty badly want us to pick up a late first either for Wroten or Quincy Miller.


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## c_dog

-James- said:


> Alright, it seems I do this every year, but I pretty badly want us to pick up a late first either for Wroten or Quincy Miller.


i want wroten or teague. these guys can be contributors right away and all it takes is a late first rounder. two of the most underrated players in the draft for sure and they can both become excellent pg's.


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## Porn Player

I've got to give the Raps credit here, we usually pick up a 2nd rounder with 1st round potential. So if somebody drops, I trust we'll go hard to get them.


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## R-Star

This Sullinger kid sounds like a ****ing dick head.


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## Knick Killer

I'm thinking were going to take Austin Rivers to be honest.


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## c_dog

i like austin rivers here. high basketball IQ, sweet shooting stroke, deceivingly good finisher around the basket, plays with intensity. his athleticism isn't great but he has good size for a pg.

i still think the raptors should go for teague or wroten with their 2nd pick, even if they draft rivers with the first pick. this team is in need of talent and these guys may be the best players available at that spot.

nothing against jeremy lamb. i can't say i find major flaws in his game, i'm just doubtful he is what the raptors need. he may develop into a good player on a different team(eg. harden, eric gordon) but you know he's just going to become irrelevant if he comes to the raptors(eg. dahntay jones). i'm not a big fan of his lack of size either.


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## Porn Player

Less than 12 hours to go... Final predictions? 

Waiters is getting a ton of love it seems, are we really trying to move up to get him? 

I want Barnes or Lillard.


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## seifer0406

I'm going with either Lillard or Lamb. I would be thrilled if Drummond or Barnes fall to us.


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## -James-

Porn Player said:


> Less than 12 hours to go... Final predictions?
> 
> Waiters is getting a ton of love it seems, are we really trying to move up to get him?
> 
> I want Barnes or Lillard.


Any of the top 5 - Brow, MKG, Robinson, Barnes and yes, Drummond - are probably too good values to pass up.

After that, in order I like Ross, Lillard and Lamb in that order and would not be unhappy with any.

I will throw up if we take Waiters or especially Henson.


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## Porn Player

I'm Anti-Lamb. I like his game, hate his attitude. 

Ross has impressed me, but he isn't exceptional at anything and I believe he's already about as good as he'll ever be, so I'll pass. 

I agree with Drummond. Val + Drum = incredible.


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## scdn

I'm still thinking the pick might be traded if a guy doesn't drop. Like trading down to a couple of the Rockets 1sts and Lowry. Maybe like the 14 and 18. Get Rivers at 14 and maybe a guy like Ross. I guess I'm like PP, Lillard or Barnes or if someone else in the top 7 drops.


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## -James-

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221797/Raptors_Trying_To_Move_Up_To_Select_Waiters

This does not make me feel good.


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## Porn Player

I really dislike Waiters, I don't understand the hype at all. I'm praying smokescreen, I'm also praying for Barnes.


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## RollWithEm

Waiters seems to be the guy from everything I've seen.


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## -James-

He could very well be a future all-star, but I generally do not like teams relying on smallish shooting guards (I realize I'm a big fan of OJ Mayo, but he doesn't play for _my team_).

If scoring off the bench was a pressing need for us, then whatever, but we need a third-, fourth-, and fifth-man so why get a sixth.


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## Porn Player

He looks like he doesn't have a position in the NBA to me.


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## c_dog

barnes and lillard? those guys are likely gone by the time we pick. sure we'd love to draft them, but they won't be there.

that's why i say austin rivers.

and i don't like drummond. too much bust potential. and i know whenever someone who has bust potential gets drafted by the raps they usually become big time busts.


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## -James-

I wouldn't exactly be comfortable with Drummond at 8 but at that pick I think it's worth the risk


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## Dissonance

Sounds like it'll be between Waiters and Rivers. I'd definitely prefer Rivers. I was hoping he'd slide to 13. 


I won't be surprised if Nash joins em though in FA.


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## Junkyard Dog13

Barnes will be gone, I will settle for Lilliard happily or Perry Jones


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## Junkyard Dog13

if Drummond what deal do u think BC has to move bargs for a elite PG or SF, I would guess Bargs to mmphis for Rudy or for Iggy
jose DD Gay or Iggy Drummond Amir n val combo


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## Knick Killer

Again, my gut is telling me that BC is gunna go with Austin Rivers.


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## c_dog

thankfully drummond should be gone by #8. the whole "i don't like drummond but would be okay with him at 8" doesn't make sense to me. would clippers draft olowankani in the first round if he somehow slipped knowing what we know now? how about wizards and kwame brown?

a bust is a bust. i don't care if you waste a #8 or a #1 pick, a wasted pick is wasted. and i think drummond has 99.8% of busting it big time.


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## R-Star

c_dog said:


> thankfully drummond should be gone by #8. the whole "i don't like drummond but would be okay with him at 8" doesn't make sense to me. would clippers draft olowankani in the first round if he somehow slipped knowing what we know now? how about wizards and kwame brown?
> 
> a bust is a bust. i don't care if you waste a #8 or a #1 pick, a wasted pick is wasted. and i think drummond has 99.8% of busting it big time.


Thats being pretty rough on him. I picked him as the most likely to bust, but I'd call it 50/50 that he's a serviceable rotation big at worst.


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## Diable

Drummond is worth a gamble once you get past a certain point. He's definitely a big risk, but a lot of these guys are locks to be mediocre at best. If there's a one in 20 chance he'll be great that's worth it once you get past a few players. Very few draft picks work out as well as you'd dream they would and honestly there are a lot of guys in this draft who don't excite me that much.


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## Wade County

Do you take Drummond? Or reach for a SF?


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## Dissonance

Think they're taking Rivers.


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## Dissonance

Nope. They go Ross.. Wow.


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## seifer0406

I'm vomiting


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## seifer0406

-James- said:


> Alright boys, if we keep #8 I think I'm convinced that my guy is Terrence Ross.


:twoguns:


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## c_dog

you know i would rather have drummond than ross.. despite being so rough on him. i just wanted austin rivers. it should have been a no brainer to pick rivers. drummond has way more potential than ross. i would have been pissed if we picked drummond but words can't describe this cow shit taste in my mouth.


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## -James-

seifer0406 said:


> :twoguns:


LOL yeah screw you guys I'm happy with the pick. I really think Rivers screams sixth-man which is only useful if you have a starting unit. Ross fits our roster and I don't think he's finished getting better like PP does. Either way, outside of Kendall Marshall (who I think is a shoe in for bottom 10 STARTING PG in the league, which isn't a bad thing) this shit is all a crap shoot anyways.

I do think the risk that comes with Drummond is outweighed by his potential and that he'd have been the better pick anyways.


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## rocketeer

i like ross more than rivers(anyone else remaining at his position).

and if the raptors have faith in their pick from last year, drummond doesn't make a ton of sense.


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## -James-

I'm sure this is jinxing them, but Lamb at 37 is looking possible.


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## seifer0406

I have been one of the biggest BC supporters around here but that's in the past.

Just a terrible pick imo. BC is drafting for position when in fact that none of his positions are really locked down at this point. We couldn't draft Rivers or Lamb because of DeRozan and we couldn't draft Drummond because we have Bargnani and Ed Davis.


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## seifer0406

heck, trading the #8 to Houston for Kyle Lowry would've been better. But no, we can't have Lowry because we already have Steve Nash.


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## Porn Player

Spot on -James- ... I'm happy-ish with the pick. As I've mentioned the kid does a lot of things well, including shooting, that alone makes him valuable next to DD. Ross is going to be a lot better than names bandied around here, that's for sure.

The thing that gets me, the ****ing coin toss, that's what cost is Barnes. 

In the 2nd round we picked Quincy Acy. The right team, the wrong Quincy, we definitely should have gambled on Miller. 

I presume the Croatian Zubcic won't be over. Ever.


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## seifer0406

I don't understand the Quincy Acy pick either. The guy is a skinny undersized 4. Kind of reminds me of a less crafty version of PJ Tucker.

And it's not that I don't think Ross can be a decent role player, it's the fact that Drummond was available. I don't even think Ross is that big of an upgrade (if an upgrade at all) over James Johnson. Ross is a better scorer yes but at under 200 lbs I'm doubtful that he can play the 3.


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## -James-

I agree, that pick needed to be Drummond. He might not pan out but the value there is too good - I was friggin ecstatic at 7 when both he and Barnes were still on the board. If his worst case is like, off the top of my head, a Tyrus Thomas, that's not terrible at 8. Sure there will be better players taken after, but athletic rim protectors do have value in this league and can usually be starters.

And thank you PP but I will take no praise for "predicting" Ross, I was just saying that from the players that I assumed would be left (I excluded Brow, MKG, Beal, Drummond, Robinson, Barnes) that he was my favorite not who I thought they'd take; I was pretty convinced it would be Rivers, actually.


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## Porn Player

Porn is warm on Ross. Kid has legit size, defends and shoots the ball very well. What's not to love? Also explain why Beal and Barnes are considered vastly superior? Just an exercise to get you thinking. 

Quincy Acy is a really solid choice if you take it in isolation. Allows us to explore trade options with Amir/Ed. 

This draft added athleticism, shooting and defense to the team. What's to begrudge? Sure Drummond could be a star, but he could be a bust, why risk it for a position we've filled? 

Casey is very high on Ross too, check his post draft interview, has known all about the kid for years apparently. I definitely trust that man.


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## seifer0406

Like I said many times before, I haven't seen a coach interview right after a draft where the coach criticized a pick. Every coach is high on every player that the team drafted, it's just how it is. I'm sure if BC drafted Drummond or Lamb or Rivers Casey would be singing their praises too.

That said I'm sure Ross will contribute next year. I just know that we won't be happy about the pick 2-3 years down the road when Drummond starts to "get it" in Detroit.


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## Porn Player

We have Val, why gamble with another big? Absolutely no need for Drummond on this team. None. 

Watch the Casey interview before commenting, it's not your usual bullshit.


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## scdn

Maybe he was worried about having another Raffa situation for the organization.


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## RollWithEm

Here it is:


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## Porn Player

Thanks RWE, I'm still posting from my phone, curse moving and all the hassle.


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## -James-

Porn Player said:


> We have Val, why gamble with another big? Absolutely no need for Drummond on this team. None.
> 
> Watch the Casey interview before commenting, it's not your usual bullshit.


Even Val isn't a sure thing though. Like I've said before, the talent on this team isn't at a level where we can suddenly get picky about who we're picking up. I think we have to take the best players and I felt like even though there was a certain risk that came with Drummond, at this pick the risk was worth it. Val/Drummond could be an absolutely menacing front-court and would turn our front court depth into valuable trade chips. And let's keep in mind, I was probably the highest on Ross in here.

Now that being said, this draft stuff is over now. I was pleasantly surprised when Ross was picked and hopefully he can develop into a fixture in this lineup. I'm not too sure if him and DeRozan will mesh very well - though their skill sets seem to compliment each other, I think they're a little too small to play together on the wings - but we'll have to see. Between picking him Ross, Val coming over, and a shit-ton of capspace, and our the way we played last season, I'm actually excited to see how this team will shape up.


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## the_mad_viking

I'm okay with Ross. I'm one of the few who likes Lamb, and would have preferred him. I think Lamb has the assassin in him to be the go to guy in the last 2 minutes of close games. Despite what the Raps say about Ross' ability to get his shot off, I'm not as convinced. On the other hand, I love Ross' defence. DeRozan's inabilty to defend anybody anywhere drives me crazy. (OK, maybe that's a wee bit harsh, but he really sucks on D, IMHO.)

Quincy Acy makes the team. He is a freak speciman, really. Hops are excellent but not quite freaky, but ridiculous result in the agility drill for a big. Enormous hands, 7-3 wingspan, 8-10.5 standing reach. Great shot blocker. I know this is not disimilar to Amir, but I have to tell you, whenever Amir is not on the floor I find myself wishing he WAS. Great FT shooter. Know how to sneak backdoor to get easy dunks. Great pick for 2nd round.

The Croatian Kid has a smooth jumper and loves to dunk, but is still a project. Body definitely not NBA ready.


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## Porn Player

Solid post. I love Lamb on court, but his demeanour off court is worrying and sometimes sneaks its way into his game. And you're spot on with your analysis of Ross on the defensive end, if he couples that with a deadly jump shot as reported (some bleacher guy had him as the 2nd best shooter in the draft behind Jenkins), we're in for a treat. 

Quincy definitely makes this roster. Such a Casey guy.

Oh and welcome to the boards.


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## lucky777s

I don't hate Ross but he was a bad pick with Lamb, Rivers, and Drummond available. All have bigger upsides and the two guards have better offensive skillsets. Drummond was the value pick. Can't tell me we could not have taken him and traded down to get Ross or Lamb.

Ross screams role player. Casey called him plan B - not a primary target - so why reach at 8. The other 3 guys went within the next 4 picks. Ross is also being called a SG by the team now, he will not play SF at all. 

Another BC screw up.

Even Acy at 37 makes no sense. All this talk of him being a fan fave? How is he even going to see the floor behind Val, Bargs, Amir, Ed with even JJ and Kleiza playing small ball PF.

One of the worst TOR drafts ever considering 3 picks in a very deep draft.

All because BC wants to re-visit his PHX glory days again by chasing Nash. I expect to see an offer bigger than 3/30 now because it is obviously his only play and always was.


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## seifer0406

Porn Player said:


> We have Val, why gamble with another big? Absolutely no need for Drummond on this team. None.
> 
> Watch the Casey interview before commenting, it's not your usual bullshit.


I probably watched that interview before you did. I don't detect anything out of the ordinary. You're too gullible for this type of thing. EVERYONE likes everybody right after the draft.

Not to mention that let's say Casey really loves Ross, what does that prove? The fact remains that it wasn't a great pick because of what was left on the board and the fact that Ross was projected 5-10 picks below where he got picked.

When the Raptors have an allstar at a position then let's talk about it being filled. Right now with the exception of Val everything is upgradeable. Even Val himself needs to prove that he is anything more than a regular starting center if that at all.


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## Porn Player

I hate BC. I hate the Raptors. Yawny ****ing yawn. 

You've still yet to elaborate how a 6'7 SG that shoots the ball ridiculously well and plays above par defense is a bad pick? Talk about Ross, 'cos I really don't care about what could have been. 

Lillard and Barnes were my preference but it's time to focus on what we have and evaluate Ross on his own merits. 

Ross is a better shooter than Lamb, Rivers and even Barnes. That's from all kinds of start ups too - catch and shoot, off the curl, spot up etc etc ... He has the second best NBA body of the above named, save Barnes. He could play D at the NBA level, could Rivers? No. Could skinnier than me Lamb? No. 

The 8th spot is Ross? Excellent value.


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## seifer0406

Out of everyone that still post here I'm probably the one that has been most fair to BC. This isn't an I hate BC type of criticism if you want to go that route. 

Ross is a bad pick because 1. There were guys with higher potential on the board 2. He likely wouldn't have been picked until 5-10 picks later 3. Guys like him are much more common than a 7 footer who's an athletic freak.

Not to mention your analysis on Lamb is off, people actually believe that he projects quite well as a defender considering his 6-11 wingspan (Ross has 6-7 3/4). Ross is also 6-7 and under 200 pounds so if you're criticizing Lamb for being skinny I don't know how that excuses Ross for being just the same. In fact, I don't think Ross will be playing SF for us so if we're counting on our pick guarding guards Lamb would've been just as good.


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## the_mad_viking

But seriously, how does Ross not fill a need? Who exactly do they have who can make a clutch shot? Ross can be that guy, probably in his soph season. 

Who do you use to guard the other teams scoring SG? Beats me. 

DeRozan is not a good 3 point shooter and is a bad defender. Yes, he can get to the rack and pull up and I like lots of stuff about him. But having DDR JJ and Ross to rotate the two wing positions seems extremely viable to me. I can live without seeing Calderon and Bayless on the court at the same time. 

I really like Lamb as well, but you can't convince me that Lamb clearly has more upside than Ross. Right now, Ross is a better defender. Lamb may gain on him, but maybe not. Ross also seems to be a very good rebounder for a guard. 

For those who are making a case for Drummond, I think I do agree. Based on taking the best pick and not drafting for need. But breaking in TWO teenage centres at the same time is virtually impossible. Still, I might have tried. Drummond is freakishly fast AND huge and is truly a great shot blocker. None of us can really tell if he actually has character issues that give him bust potential, but the scouts who assess that for the Raps may have noted warning signs. UConn was such a disaster last year, and he still had a pretty good season.


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## -James-

Viking is killing it. I think he's spot on, what makes Lamb or Rivers discernibly better prospects than Ross? Neither is as thick as Ross, so that "SF" need stuff gets thrown out immediately, and I don't think there is a significant gap in shooting or athleticism between the three. I don't think the 5-10 picks later stuff flies either - I had seen mocks that had him as high as 9 - the fact is the experts aren't as informed as actual front offices and don't know what's going on behind the scenes - who's to say he was expected to have gone to the Pistons, Hornets or Blazers had we taken either of the other two.

And I don't want to hear anything about bias. The reason Ross was "my guy" from the beginning, was because I liked what I read and saw about him moreso than Lamb, and particularly Rivers. If anything, I've been one of the more critical guys when it comes to BC but this is one thing that, while I won't say he got it right, he definitely didn't necessarily get it wrong. All we can do is wait and see anyways.

I wouldn't say this was an "excellent" pick but just an okay one, downgraded from "good" because Drummond was still on the board, which could end up being a huge mistake.


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## lucky777s

All the descriptions of Ross should tell you why its a bad pick at 8.

They talk about him like a spot up shooter who can play D. That is the definition of a role player. He isn't going to be our go-to scorer like a Lamb or Rivers could potentially be, knocking DD down the pyramid to where he belongs as a 3rd scorer.

We have a team full of role players, we need stars if we are ever going to be anything more than a marginal playoff team. There were 3 guys with clear star potential at 8. We passed on those to take a 'safe' role player.

Its not like Ross is really any more certain of filling that limited role than Rivers or Lamb either. He could fail at that like anybody else. Who says he can defend at this level. 

Drummond looks to be at least on the level of DeAndre Jordan. The right coach and support system could vault him to much greater heights. He is incredibly young and may not even realize the possibilities that are out there for him if he becomes a great player. We will never, ever, get a shot at a player like that outside of the draft.

Guys like Ross are much easier to come by. Drafting him says that BC is fine with Bargs and DD being our top scorers.


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## seifer0406

^

The point isn't which player is better at guarding 3s, since neither can at this point. Both Lamb and Ross can guard 2s and Lamb is projected to be a better scorer. I'm not high on Rivers so I don't regret us not drafting him but I definitely would've picked Lamb over Ross.

The correct pick should've been Drummond anyway. All this talk about Rivers/Lamb/Ross is pointless since we would still be having this discussion if we drafted Lamb. It's better than drafting Ross but we still passed on Drummond. 

Again, I just hate the thought of us picking for position when we don't have a star at any position.


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## rocketeer

lucky777s said:


> We have a team full of role players, we need stars if we are ever going to be anything more than a marginal playoff team. There were 3 guys with clear star potential at 8. We passed on those to take a 'safe' role player.


i don't see ross having less star potential than lamb or rivers. he outplayed both of them at the college level. the whole idea of people being the safe role player is overblown. that's what brandon roy was supposed to be too.


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## -James-

lucky777s said:


> All the descriptions of Ross should tell you why its a bad pick at 8.
> 
> They talk about him like a spot up shooter who can play D. That is the definition of a role player. He isn't going to be our go-to scorer like a Lamb or Rivers could potentially be, knocking DD down the pyramid to where he belongs as a 3rd scorer.
> 
> We have a team full of role players, we need stars if we are ever going to be anything more than a marginal playoff team. There were 3 guys with clear star potential at 8. We passed on those to take a 'safe' role player.
> 
> Its not like Ross is really any more certain of filling that limited role than Rivers or Lamb either. He could fail at that like anybody else. Who says he can defend at this level.
> 
> Drummond looks to be at least on the level of DeAndre Jordan. The right coach and support system could vault him to much greater heights. He is incredibly young and may not even realize the possibilities that are out there for him if he becomes a great player. We will never, ever, get a shot at a player like that outside of the draft.
> 
> Guys like Ross are much easier to come by. Drafting him says that BC is fine with Bargs and DD being our top scorers.


I have to tell you I don't think Rivers or Lamb are locks for second options either. To me Rivers screams sixth man while Lamb is a taller Mo WIlliams. I think none of the three are stars in the making but in the mid-lower part of the lottery, that's generally what you find - role players. Even if Rivers AND Lamb turn out to be better than Ross, I think this would only be a bad pick in _hindsight_ and that as of today, if it were between those three, they are all of similar stature so any of them would be a solid pick.

This draft is such that, at least in my eyes, there appears to be a substantial drop in talent between picks 7 and 8. The problem is that Waiters wasn't one of those seven, so one of those seven, who does have legit star potential, was on the board. So I think this pick was less than solid for that reason. If Drummond doesn't pan out, I don't think it will be reflective of shrewd drafting but instead of luck.


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## ballocks

i just love the idea of a time machine.  the fact that we got to live 2004 once again last night is a privilege that we may never be extended again. 

look, i'm just playing. but listen, for me- and i don't know what anyone else's standards are, but for _me_- this is quite the disaster. don't read the press. please. there is always a way to paint this like a positive move- it doesn't necessarily mean that it is. doesn't mean that it isn't, granted, but all those guys are serving agendas on some level. their position is oftentimes pre-determined... it's just the names, places and dates that change.

my biggest fear, my worst nightmare all year was for this team settling once again. i didn't know how to reconcile myself with the risk. i don't care what their big board is, was, or will be in the future. that's not the point. they could have had henry sims or fab melo 1, 2 for all i care- *but you gotta get them*. hell, out of principle. you can't handcuff yourself and hope for the best out of fear; that's just microcosmic of the worst approach in general; that's the cultural plague we need to cure in toronto.

last night was such a bomb in my eyes that it was on some level entertaining. right or wrong, they reportedly had barnes #2 on their board. now he falls to 6 and portland. the blazers are going all-in on lillard regardless, golden state isn't touching lillard with a flagpole, and the raptors sit tight at 8 anyway. portland doesn't mind, they get their guy at 6, and the warriors then nab barnes at 7, and the raptors are left googling for excuses. 

some people (usually biased media) are making the case that you don't know what was available to the raptors. and it's true. nobody does. but you can speculate beyond a reasonable doubt. think about this: portland can effectively swap picks with toronto, get the same player at 8, in fact get him on a cheaper rookie deal (upping their cap room for this summer- marginally, but still important especially for them) and, not to be forgotten, to prevent their *division rival* from drafting _their_ prime target. you think they were asking for a king's ransom?

if you're still dubious, then think about it like this: portland received nothing for staying at 6. that happened. that's fact. it implies that they weren't offered a minimal risk alternative (which the raptors' package would have done). yes, the devil's advocate would suggest some team could still swoop into 7 and thief damian lillard from the blazers- but tell me who. detroit at 9 after picking brandon knight last year? new orleans at 10, who didn't even workout lillard since becoming so enamored of austin rivers? portland at.- houston at 12 to balloon their pg glut into a parallel dimension? i mean, who? it doesn't add up. nobody was trading into 7 for lillard at that point, at least not before phoenix at 13.

what's more, golden state was never really married to harrison barnes. my gut tells me they would have gladly settled for andre drummond no questions asked had barnes been scooped up by the raptors at 6. which leads me to my best guess: drummond to the warriors is what colangelo and the raptors war room were banking on. they miscalculated their risk. they thought the warriors would pick drummond, leaving barnes on the board for them as well as whatever asset it would have cost to swing into 6 ($3 million, ed davis, other?). all three of those picks (6,7,8) took the full 5 minutes and i'm sure there were musical chairs being played behind the scenes like you wouldn't believe. ultimately it appears the raptors got caught. you could see it on their faces outside the war room immediately thereafter, at today's press conference... they. got. caught. greed, pure and simple. they were too cheap. settling. again. _that's_ what bothers me and was always my greatest fear.

i don't mind that they didn't get barnes, per se. it could have been araujo for all i care- the point remains the same. it was another case of mismanagement to achieve their own goals, not mine. they failed. that's the issue here and that's why i don't feel anyone should be supportive of how they handled this event, if not the outcome itself. my position wouldn't change even if i wanted terrence ross- it's not about me. we're talking about management performance here, the same performance that will lead how this team shapes its future on july 1. make no mistake- this is already an enormous fail whether ross booms or busts. that's sort of my point imo.

but let's talk about terrence ross for a moment. for starters, the media in toronto will unfortunately turn this saga into fans vs ross, which could never be further from the truth. this has nothing to do with ross. joey graham in 2005 had nothing to do with him. hoffa in 2004, same thing. those players are innocent. this is about value; this is fans vs organization. let's keep that in mind throughout and make sure we don't forget it.

second, i ask the ross supporters for two things: i) put your name on record, we'll come back to you in 3 years (i'm talking more media here than fans)... it has always bothered me that the people who backed rafael araujo in 2004, for example, are largely the same ones who lambast rob babcock for the selection _today_- the world doesn't work like that, i'm afraid; ii) have you seen terrence ross play? i'm not talking his highlight package. i'm just saying- have you seen him _play_? you can't back his game, you can't label anybody a 'whiner' if you haven't seen him yet yourself. 

i've seen terrence ross. he's been on the 2012 board since he was a freshman. he was highly touted that first year at washington- i think he cracked the top 10 a few times, back when austin rivers and andre drummond were going back and forth at 1 & 2 (that's a bit of a silly coincidence but it's true). i don't even know if anthony davis was on the radar yet. i remember tuning into a game to see him play and he was a forgotten man. isaiah thomas was leading the charge, i think matt bryan-amaning was their #1 option on offense- ross would fill in for a few mins and you wouldn't notice him. i actually think he was coming in off the bench. role player?  how about fringe player? placeholder? we're talking about a poor man's gary forbes... maybe (gulp) an honest man's will solomon? he's small and frail- if he can't get his game off against college bodies, what makes you think- etc.

this year, bubble team. didn't quite make the tournament. led by tony wroten jr... but they didn't make the _tournament_, man- in the pac-12 that was having a rough, rough year...? man, i have to stop. 

but "lock-down defender"? this is draft season, folks. again, put your name on record, especially if you're part of the (arguably corrupt?) media contingent in toronto who've let down the sporting community as a force of habit.

one small thing to brighten our spirits, though: dwane casey's an excellent coach. i don't know how far he can take any of these talents- but i think we should all be confident that he can at least take them as far as _possible_. if this is a mistake, in other words, you can bet your bottom dollar that dwane casey will soften the blow considerably. this is the best place for ross- it would have been the same for many of the other prospects, i feel. it doesn't justify the mismanagement of assets in real time but it is a bit of a silver lining.

still, casey's personal relationship with terrence might have quite possibly polluted the pick as it turns out, in much the same way that maurizio gherardini/bargnani did in 2006 (strike 1?) and masai ujiri/solomon alabi did last year (strike 2?). i think it goes to shine further light on the fact that this team was unprepared for harrison barnes going at 7, and was not ready for the league office on line 1 at 8- ultimately _settling_ for a guy who may not have been the best player, but was at least a character with whom they shared a personal relationship. if true, that's simply not a professional way to do business. i could be wrong about how it happened, but the disappointment on their collective face in the aftermath was undeniable. it sure looked to me like they settled for a friend (never a good sign) once the rug was pulled out from under them by golden state- and fumbled for excuses to get themselves off the hook. you think it was a coincidence that casey was wearing a tar heel-blue polo under his raptor vest last night? they got played, pure and simple, and cheering for that is the kind of denial that led us down into this hole in the first place imo; cheering for that would be like cheering a _touchdown_ for the other team.

i hope for the best from terrence ross and the upcoming free agency period (which should be a lot of fun) but this has not blasted off to the start that anyone anticipated imo. the game's not over- but you could argue we're already down _7-0_.

peace


----------



## -James-

Sorry to double post, but why are people so down on his potential? From what I read he has good size, is athletic, a good shooter, good in transition, active defender. He has a bunch of tools - sounds like a better version of DeRozan when he came out, to be honest, and remember how hyped we were when we got him.


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## speedythief

David Stern could hardly get the name Terrence Ross out of his mouth. It's almost like he wanted to say The Toronto Raptors select... what the ****?

SUPPOSEDLY the Blazers liked him at 11 but they went in a totally different direction so I don't know how much stock to put into that.

We had an opportunity to get him at 12 with Houston's pick in the rumoured Kyle Lowry deal but I think we're already married to the idea of Steve Nash the twilight years. $$$

I mean, Colangelo has been rehashing Suns ideas the entire time he's been in Toronto so that should come as no surprise.


----------



## -James-

Sorry ballocks, I generally am a huge fan of your stuff but this I don't buy. Granted, what you're saying is fine, "you gotta get your guy" and so forth, but the fact is we weren't in that war room and we don't know what was going on. You said it. And for that reason you can't so certainly call it greed. Say we offered Ed, $3M and the #8 - pretty much the most we could offer. There is no guarantee that Portland takes that. Ed offers them NOTHING - they have nine PFs already on their roster. Like you said, Golden State was not married to Barnes - if he goes six, and GS is one of those teams completely unimpressed by Drummond, what stops them from being a little more active in trading their pick? This draft was a complete mess (as the 5 minutes needed for each pick suggested) and maybe Portland just wanted to know that they'd get _their_ guy. Maybe Portland was working those phones trying to figure this very thing out and just said "**** it, this is _our_ guy". If we're going to talk about this pick being a "disaster", never mind this musical chairs business, let's talk about that truck who has a (slight) chance of ending up the best player from this whole damn draft.

As for me being a fan of Terrence Ross, who cares. If he doesn't pan out, then fine, rub my face in it. If it turns out he gets pushed around, can't get his shots off, blah blah blah, then whatever I'm wrong. I'll gladly sign my name because today, I like him. If he turns out to be a bum, then throw his ass out of here, he's not my cousin. Do you think I'll care that I was happy to get him before he even played a game? If Rivers or Lamb end up better, what does that prove? I've signed my name next to Joey Graham, Jonny Flynn and Roko friggin Ukic. I also wanted Aldridge instead of Bargnani, and Al Jefferson and Iguodala instead of Araujo. The thing is, all of this means nothing coming from a kid on a message board. If Barnes shreds his knee tomorrow (God forbid), do I get to come at you? Does you "wishing for the best" absolve you if Ross makes All-Rookie? Don't get it twisted, we're all hoping for the best with this team. I was angry just like you when the Jermaine O'Neal trade went down (I remember that shit). I'm just hoping _this_ Raptor-rage is coming from a real place and hasn't just become a force of habit.

edit- quick, honest question. how does picking Ross have anything to do with "Phoenix North". I know I heard it on TV, but the more I read it, the less it makes sense to me. Who does he even compare to?


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## seifer0406

If Drummond wasn't available and BC chose Ross over Lamb I could live with the choice. I wouldn't be happy but I wouldn't be angry about it. But he chose a role player when a potential stud was still on the board.

The Raptors right now needs to swing for the fences to get out of mediocrity. Getting Ross at 8 is like bunting with 2 outs.


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## ballocks

here's a vid of washington vs ucla from earlier this year. T.Rex- er, T.Ross is #31 in purple.

edit: i guess it doesn't support youtube.

here's the link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNDCo80h3Ck

peace


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## ballocks

-James- said:


> Sorry ballocks, I generally am a huge fan of your stuff but this I don't buy. Granted, what you're saying is fine, "you gotta get your guy" and so forth, but the fact is we weren't in that war room and we don't know what was going on. You said it. And for that reason you can't so certainly call it greed. Say we offered Ed, $3M and the #8 - pretty much the most we could offer. There is no guarantee that Portland takes that. Ed offers them NOTHING - they have nine PFs already on their roster. Like you said, Golden State was not married to Barnes - if he goes six, and GS is one of those teams completely unimpressed by Drummond, what stops them from being a little more active in trading their pick? This draft was a complete mess (as the 5 minutes needed for each pick suggested) and maybe Portland just wanted to know that they'd get _their_ guy. Maybe Portland was working those phones trying to figure this very thing out and just said "**** it, this is _our_ guy". If we're going to talk about this pick being a "disaster", never mind this musical chairs business, let's talk about that truck who has a (slight) chance of ending up the best player from this whole damn draft.
> 
> As for me being a fan of Terrence Ross, who cares. If he doesn't pan out, then fine, rub my face in it. If it turns out he gets pushed around, can't get his shots off, blah blah blah, then whatever I'm wrong. I'll gladly sign my name because today, I like him. If he turns out to be a bum, then throw his ass out of here, he's not my cousin. Do you think I'll care that I was happy to get him before he even played a game? If Rivers or Lamb end up better, what does that prove? I've signed my name next to Joey Graham, Jonny Flynn and Roko friggin Ukic. I also wanted Aldridge instead of Bargnani, and Al Jefferson and Iguodala instead of Araujo. The thing is, all of this means nothing coming from a kid on a message board. If Barnes shreds his knee tomorrow (God forbid), do I get to come at you? Does you "wishing for the best" absolve you if Ross makes All-Rookie? Don't get it twisted, we're all hoping for the best with this team. I was angry just like you when the Jermaine O'Neal trade went down (I remember that shit). I'm just hoping _this_ Raptor-rage is coming from a real place and hasn't just become a force of habit.
> 
> edit- quick, honest question. how does picking Ross have anything to do with "Phoenix North". I know I heard it on TV, but the more I read it, the less it makes sense to me. Who does he even compare to?


hey, i'm not even suggesting barnes (or rivers or drummond) > ross. i was hoping to make that clear. i think _they_ think barnes > ross, and i'm 'blaming' them for not writing their own destiny if that's true. i don't think we can easily blame them for picking the wrong guy before he plays a single nba game- but imo we _can_ blame them for not getting who _they_ wanted to get, if only because that game was 'played' last night and is already over. i think people are too obsessed with what happened _behind_ the raptors (rivers, drummond, lamb); i'm more concerned with what happened in_ front_ of them (barnes, lillard).

my preference is absolutely meaningless but i think they should have done everything in their power this year to put themselves in a position to draft michael (kidd-)gilchrist. can i blame them for not getting him last night? not really, since they probably didn't have assets at that point and were out of range. but can i blame them for not approaching last season with the right philosophy, ultimately putting themselves in a better position to pick a player who could define their next 10 years? that's a little easier to do. but he was my number 1 even so far back as ~last year's mcdonald's AA game where he co-mvp'd with james (michael) mcadoo. note: what's up with these dudes changing their names all the time? shabazz ochocinco next year... 

last night, i think they could have better maximized the value of their asset, or at least drafted the player who was atop their board considering the timeline of this team and a possible playoff push for next year. they did neither imo. they settled. they got their admitted "plan B", the "8th player" on their board- that's not exactly a ringing endorsement. notice how i'm not talking about specific players here- i'm taking issue with the way they conduct their business (and why). i don't even blame colangelo, necessarily: i suspect he was financially cash-strapped by new/changing ownership, which is the prime reason he couldn't move up to 6 or, later, from 37 to 28 for perry jones iii. these are guesses, but they're also consistent with the way this organization has handled its business since time immemorial. 

anyway, i hope you're right and this team got the right guy in spite of their systemic woes at the board level. but make sure you don't put me in there with cats who like andre drummond lol- i can't stand andre drummond. i would've rather picked quincy acy than andre drummond.  but in terms of picking drummond at 8, that's a different story- because he presumably carried value that could have been parlayed into more assets this summer than terrence ross. sort of like the barbosa trade in march- 2nd round pick (zubcic... wonderful!)? TPE that they're not going to use? bad asset management. bosh in 2010? all of james johnson and a small part of bayless for the player (love him or hate him) around whom your franchise is built?! this is all lost value because (at least imo) they're too cheap to make the right move on a timely basis. it has nothing squarely to do with ross/drummond/rivers/sullinger, barbosa, bosh, etc. in this league you simply need to manage your assets better- that is, if your boss allows you to do so...

btw, some people compare ross to j-rich, i think, which is why they might bring him up in the phoenix convo. not sure, though.

peace


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## -James-

Honestly, I think Waiters was "plan A" and Ross was "plan B", with them expecting Barnes, Robinson, Beal, Brow, MKG and Lillard to be off the board, and wanting no part of Drummond. I think Waiters going 4 basically messed up everything starting with the Kings who didn't expect Robinson (my personal favorite) to be there at 5. And as I mentioned before, I'm still not convinced that Toronto _could_ have moved up but didn't, so I have no gripes there really.

I'll agree with you about them not buying late picks that could legit help the team. It's a pattern that has bothered me for a couple drafts now. I think Wroten and PJ3 are solid prospects that the Raptors could have pursued.


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## Porn Player

I agree with James. The Raptors wanted Waiters, and weren't expecting him to go fourth. 

I'd take Ross over that tweener all day every day. For once, the incompetence of management may have worked in our favour. I certainly have more belief in Casey than I do anybody else in the organisation, and he seemed (genuinely) happy.


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## Porn Player

Ross has changed his Twitter handle to T.DotFlight31.


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## Ben

T_DotFlight31

_ not .


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## Porn Player

Cheers, this posting on the move leads to a lot of mistakes. 

Out of curiosity, what do you think of Ross?


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## Ben

Being honest I watch very little college basketball so don't really know anyone outside of the 'locks' in the top 5 or so. When I get time I plan to watch some tape on the rest of at least the first 15-20 picks. 

I'm just excited for Jonas to come over.


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## Mr_B

I think Ross is a reach at 8 but I know that was comming when GS took barns .......the life of a raptor fan


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