# Pippen reveals who really broke up the dynasty...



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

No wonder we get into fierce debates about who really is to blame. Pippen flip flops his story in a span of 3 sentences.  




> But Pippen said even if Jordan didn't retire, and even *if the Bulls had offered him the reported $15 million for one season to keep the team together, he wouldn't have stayed in Chicago.*
> 
> "I think we'd had enough of each other," Pippen said with a laugh
> 
> ...


Quotes from http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...pipmj,1,2080155.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Side note: Gee, Pip, maybe they would be more likely to do something for you someday if you didn't rip Krause every time you were interviewed.


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## DickieHurtz (May 28, 2002)

Great point. And while we're on the subject of who's to blame, here's an interesting take on the subject from ESPN:

Right now, Jackson is pulling some of the same tricks he did in Chicago right before he left the team in rubble.  

Jackson has vetoed several moves over the past six months that would have, if nothing else, stopped the bleeding in L.A. His latest blunder, nixing the signing of free agent Jim Jackson, hurt the Lakers in more ways than one. 

Jackson did the same thing to Bulls GM Jerry Krause over his last few years in Chicago. It's tough to be a Krause sympathizer, but Jerry had a point when he pushed Jackson to begin thinking about rebuilding before the run was over. Championships fade from memory pretty fast. A steady diet of late first-round picks and marginal veterans isn't much to build on. When Krause began looking to deal Scottie Pippen in return for a couple of top young players a few years before the whole thing blew up in Chicago, Jackson threatened to quit the team. 

Jackson's stubborn refusal to let Krause re-stock left the Bulls with nothing. 

Now, I'm not a Krause fan by any stretch. But it _is interesting_ to see how people are finally beginning to acknowledge that there was much more to the Bulls' demise than just the overbearing ego of Jerry Krause.

In Pippin's case, we're talking about a revisionist liar who as he gets older, has more and more difficulty seperating fact from fiction.

Jackson was all about power. He wanted all of it and he didn't care who he had to step on to get it. Thank God he never became the decision maker in Chicago. Keep in mind it was West who brought O'Neal and Bryant to LA. What significant additions to the aging Lakers roster can Jackson claim to have influenced? Just watch...LA is going to look alot like Chicago, and sooner than you think. And when that happens, Jackson will have once again abandoned ship so that someone else can take the blame.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

This article makes me sad, it really does. Seeing the stars of our dynasty winding down their careers playing on other teams... not even knowing if their team will honor all that they gave to the organization, city and fans.

Truer words were never spoken: 
You're talking about one of the greatest cities and greatest places in the game. I don't know if they'll want to do something for me. Maybe someday when I leave the game."

That could be this season for Jordan, Pippen and Grant. They won't be forgotten.

"They played very hard and enjoyed every minute," Bach said.

"As much as anything, they left a legacy of how the game should be played." 

The fact that a top50 NBA player, winner of 6 championships, and one of the elite players of his time may not get 'something' to be remembered by for Chicago fans is truly troubling. But hey if management could cut Jordan's ovation short, why would they hesitate w/ Pippen? The Bulls organization needs to show some class and honor MJ, Pip, and Grant. They've already rewarded former role players from that era (Pax, BJ, Cartwright) by providing them w/ jobs in the organization. Let's see if something can be done for the big three.



VD


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> This article makes me sad, it really does. Seeing the stars of our dynasty winding down their careers playing on other teams... not even knowing if their team will honor all that they gave to the organization, city and fans.
> 
> Truer words were never spoken:
> ...


There _is_ an element of sadness to the article. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls choose to do to recognize Pippen. Unfortunately Scottie's bitterness towards Bulls management seems as strong as ever, and he has seen fit to stab the organization in the back at every opportunity. Obviously his on court accomplishments merit the retirement of his number, and I believe the Bulls will do that once he retires from the league. But what could have and should have been a joyous night is bound to be clouded somewhat by Pip's festering bitterness. Hopefully all parties concerned can bury the hatchet for one night.

As for MJ, you've got to be kidding. Has a team done any more to honor a player than the Bulls have done for Jordan? Not the least of which was putting up $5 million to build the James Jordan Boys & Girls Club. MJ was a great, great player, but he is also one ungrateful SOB.

Yes, Pax, BJ, and BC were "rewarded" with jobs within the organization-- jobs that were all well-deserved-- Pax as an assistant coach and now broadcaster, BJ as a scout and now assistant GM, and BC as assistant coach and now head coach. Does anyone here really think MJ would have agreed to such menial positions within the organization to start out? No, he wanted nothing less than to run the place from the get-go, something JR simply couldn't offer. Perhaps if the Bulls didn't have a GM coming off 6 championships things could have been different. But they did, and as a result, MJ is with the Wizards (no different than Isiah was first with the Raptors and now the Pacers, Larry Bird with the Pacers, Mo Cheeks with the Blazers, Dr. J with the Magic, etc.)


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Well, I have a little different take....*



> Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
> In Pippin's case, we're talking about a revisionist liar who as he gets older, has more and more difficulty seperating fact from fiction.


Pippen has always seemed to talk out of both sides of his mouth. However, I am sure that he truly believes that the Jerry's did not do everything possible to keep the championship teams intact.



> Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
> Jackson was all about power. He wanted all of it and he didn't care who he had to step on to get it. Thank God he never became the decision maker in Chicago. Keep in mind it was West who brought O'Neal and Bryant to LA. What significant additions to the aging Lakers roster can Jackson claim to have influenced?


Jackson is all about winning, not power. A lot of lesser coaches have been named GM/coach. If Pjax was all about power, he would have held out for that title. 

With the Bulls, PJax worked on year to year contracts with the Bulls at the end. Seems perfectly fair and consistant for him to say that he would coach if the goal was to win championships, but would not coach if it was time to rebuild. 

With the Lakers, as far as any blame to assess, Buss is my fall guy. When is the last time they used the MLE? If they used it to resign George, it's only b/c they were too cheap to pick up his extention. A guy like Keon Clark or Donyell Marshall would have made a much bigger impact than Jimmy Jackson.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

Pip talks like the Bulls never did anything nice for him. Wasn't the sign-and-trade a huge favor -- to send Pip where he wanted to play and give him a bigger contract than he would have gotten otherwise???

With that said, I will be very disappointed if the Bulls don't retire Pippen's jersey when he's done playing.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> There _is_ an element of sadness to the article. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls choose to do to recognize Pippen. Unfortunately Scottie's bitterness towards Bulls management seems as strong as ever, and he has seen fit to stab the organization in the back at every opportunity. Obviously his on court accomplishments merit the retirement of his number, and I believe the Bulls will do that once he retires from the league. But what could have and should have been a joyous night is bound to be clouded somewhat by Pip's festering bitterness. Hopefully all parties concerned can bury the hatchet for one night.


The bitterness goes both ways. Kneepad you act as if Pippen has no reason to be be bitter with the Bulls, as if breaking up the dynasty is his only reason for being upset. NOt so. Pippen was crying to have his contract renegotiated for many of his last years in Chicago. Granted he signed the contract, and for too many years, but how could Pip feel appreciated when he was making 2-3 million a year? Also, Pip was unhappy about Reinsdorf's bungling of Grant's contract situation in '95... the 'handshake deal' that went bad. Not only so... the 'handshake deal' resulted in a huge smear campaign by Jerry Reinsdorf. All that crap about the blue-flu and Horace not giving 100% all the time. What a load of crap. How can Jerry Krause praise Horace so many years later (per his work ethic) and Reinsdorf lay such criticism to one of his All-Star players he couldn't re-sign? Does taht sound like a class organization to you?



> As for MJ, you've got to be kidding. Has a team done any more to honor a player than the Bulls have done for Jordan? Not the least of which was putting up $5 million to build the James Jordan Boys & Girls Club. MJ was a great, great player, but he is also one ungrateful SOB.


Its pretty obvious you're not a fan of MJ.. which is fine. MJ basically added a couple hundred million dollars of value to the CHicago Bulls. So an altruistic $5 million dollar facility (which may have been built w/ or w/o MJ), a statue, and shorting his applause on his comeback last year is what MJ got. Wow.



> Yes, Pax, BJ, and BC were "rewarded" with jobs within the organization-- jobs that were all well-deserved-- Pax as an assistant coach and now broadcaster, BJ as a scout and now assistant GM, and BC as assistant coach and now head coach. Does anyone here really think MJ would have agreed to such menial positions within the organization to start out? No, he wanted nothing less than to run the place from the get-go, something JR simply couldn't offer. Perhaps if the Bulls didn't have a GM coming off 6 championships things could have been different. But they did, and as a result, MJ is with the Wizards (no different than Isiah was first with the Raptors and now the Pacers, Larry Bird with the Pacers, Mo Cheeks with the Blazers, Dr. J with the Magic, etc.)


I was in no way implying Jordan would have taken such a job w/ the Bulls. However, seeing as the Bulls organization has rewarded many former players (who were role players and yes.. not very good)... the same class and grace should be given to Mj, Pip, and Grant.

Well supposedly the latest news is that Pippen is getting a video tribute for the upcoming game. Hooray. But if this is the only tribute the Bulls ever make to such a great player... then it is truly truly sad.



VD


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> The bitterness goes both ways. Kneepad you act as if Pippen has no reason to be be bitter with the Bulls, as if breaking up the dynasty is his only reason for being upset. NOt so. Pippen was crying to have his contract renegotiated for many of his last years in Chicago. Granted he signed the contract, and for too many years, but how could Pip feel appreciated when he was making 2-3 million a year?


A fair point. However at the time Scottie signed the contract he was coming off back surgery, and there was legitimate question as to how effective he would be able to perform long-term. Also, Scottie was overly-paranoid about dibilitating injury because members of his family (I believe his father, but I forget the specifics) were plagued in such a manner. He wanted the security of a long-term contract. Is it the Bulls fault that a new TV deal was negotiated in the interim which made the salary cap balloon to the levels it did? Is it the Bulls fault that a new CBA was put in place the made renegoation of contracts illegal? If Pippen would have not been able to play for the full term of the contract due to his back (or any other injury), would he have complained about the contract then?

I'm sorry, but I have little patience for players being unhappy with contracts they signed when guys like Bryant Reeves sit on their butt and collect their millions. Long term guaranteed contracts are a roll of the dice for both sides, and both sides should be prepared to live with them.



> Also, Pip was unhappy about Reinsdorf's bungling of Grant's contract situation in '95... the 'handshake deal' that went bad.


Another fair point. The Bulls handling of the Horace Grant situation is definitely a low point in the history of the franchise. I'm not saying the Bulls are infallible. But I think players like Scottie Pippen, who have been fortunate in life to have been blessed with incredible skills which has allowed him to make millions of dollars playing NBA basketball, and who was fortunate to land on a team capable of winning not one, but six NBA championships, and who is now a fabulously wealthy man... well, I guess I just wonder what in the world he could possibly still be so bitter about. Call me crazy.

As for MJ, I'm a huge fan. I full well realize the value he added to the Bulls organization. I also full well realize the value of being on a 6-time championship team and what that meant to MJ's career. (If there is any question, ask Patrick Ewing or Charles Barkley.) MJ got two $30M + paydays, a statue, a retired number, a facility built and named in honor of his father (don't think that doesn't mean a lot to MJ), the chance to play major league baseball while (reportedly) receiving his full NBA salary, etc., etc. Compare that to what the Knicks have done for Ewing, the Rockets for Hakeem, the Pistons for Isiah, etc. I just don't think the Bulls have mistreated Michael Jordan in any way. The Bulls and MJ paired to make each party fabulously wealthy. Perhaps I should ask you-- what more would you feel is appropriate?

As for offering positions within the organization to MJ, Scottie, and Grant, that is a difficult issue. Obviously Pippen and Grant were/are not finished with their playing careers, so the issue was not even an issue until very recently with Grant. I'm reasonably sure that neither of them has any desire to work with the Bulls organization in any capacity, so the issue is most likely moot in any case. As for MJ, who knows exactly what conversations were had between JR and MJ? Their is reportedly great mutual respect between the two. JR simply was not in a position to offer MJ the same position the Wizards ultimately did immediately upon MJ's retirement.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> A fair point. However at the time Scottie signed the contract he was coming off back surgery, and there was legitimate question as to how effective he would be able to perform long-term. Also, Scottie was overly-paranoid about dibilitating injury because members of his family (I believe his father, but I forget the specifics) were plagued in such a manner. He wanted the security of a long-term contract. Is it the Bulls fault that a new TV deal was negotiated in the interim which made the salary cap balloon to the levels it did? Is it the Bulls fault that a new CBA was put in place the made renegoation of contracts illegal? If Pippen would have not been able to play for the full term of the contract due to his back (or any other injury), would he have complained about the contract then?
> 
> ...


Very solid post as always Kneepad.

You're right on about Pip's contract. At the time of signing, it added lots of security to a young Pippen and was to my knowledge one of the bigger contracts in the NBA at that point. This being said, it looked painfully small, especially in '94-'95 when Pippen arguably was the league's top player (sans Hakeem). But a contract is a contract, and there is risk assumed on both sides.

I can't really say what would be appropriate tribute for Jordan. Or Pippen. Or Grant for that matter. MJ has recieved most of the hoopla up to this point of the three (though as you can tell I'm still peeved by the cutting short of MJ's ovation last season). I'd like to see some type of ceremony for Pip and Grant, especially if this is their last seasons. Retire their jerseys, do the emotional video highlight thing, let the fans give one last cheer for these proud warriors. And hopefully have some reconciliation between the Jerrys and these two players. Pip for Krause, Horace for Reinsdorf. I know the last request may be a stretch, but taken as a whole something of this order should be done. Pip and Grant are still remembered and loved by so many fans in Chicago, including me.



VD


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## MyBallsStillHurt (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> 
> 
> Very solid post as always Kneepad.
> ...


VD -

Too bad you and I disagree, but we seem to on so many occassions. Where to start? There are just too many to recap without droning on. But let me throw in a couple of pennies on the issue of Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and the Great One - Michael Jordan.

Pip - aka "No Tippin' Pippen" -- one thing that can be said about this jerk is he's consistent ... consistent at whining and revising history to suit his own needs. .:upset:

I know for a FACT, that HE KNOWS that the Bulls are going to retire his number AFTER his playing days are over. From "unimpeachiBull" sources ... when Pippen made his first post-Bulls appearence at the UC FOUR YEARS AGO, the Bulls (in the likes of Business Operations VP Steve Schanwald) and Pippen met early that day and it was discussed that the team wanted to "officially" honor Pip's days as a Bull when he retires. That night, if you recall, when Pippen was introduced during the starting lineups, the Bulls turned-off the house lights and gave him, AND ONLY HIM, a spotlight introduction. The Bulls also ran a video tribute to the jerk during the first time-out. 

Schanwald discussed with Pippen that, with his permission, the team will hold a "Scottie Pippen Day" bringing Pippen's ENTIRE family to Chicago and present them with gifts, before ending the ceremony by hanging his number RIGHT NEXT TO MJ's in the UC's rafters. NOTE: Krause and Reinsdorf have signed off on this plan and had been in contact with Pippen's agent (Jimmy Sexton) to pass along the same message.

Also, Krause AND Reinsdorf have said publically OVER AND OVER that Pippen's number will be "officially" retired when he retires from active duty. For Sun-Times writer "Lazy" Banks to print "there has been no indication" is an outright lie. Who has worn #33 since Pippen left Chicago? Can anyone tell me? I can tell you -- NOBODY -- Lazy knows this too, but he loves to stir muddy water.

As for tonight's Bulls-Blazer game, Pippen also knows that the team is going to run ANOTHER video tribute to him during the first timeout.

As for honoring Horace Grant ... give me a friggin' break. He deserves a Horace Grant night right after Bobby Hansen and Craig Hodges. Horace Grant was a good role player and that's it. To make him out to be anything else is just plain wrong. The Bulls don't win without Jordan and Pippen - they won WITHOUT Grant - won three titles.

The Great One -- MJ -- It doesn't make good copy to say that NBC cut-off his standing ovation during the introductions last year, but that's the God's honest truth. An NBC associate producer, in conjuction with an NBA league official are the people responsible to cutting off MJ's gang-bang. The Bulls had nothing to do with it ... but you see, that doesn't make interesting reading, so it had to be the bitter Bulls who decided to "stick it" to him and the fans by ONLY allowing a full THREE-MINUTE standing-o. Certainly not a major TV network who, by the mere fact of paying the league millions of dollars for the right to telecast games of their choosing who decided that they didn't want to go over their alloted time before cutting to comerical could have stop MJ from getting the applause he so rich deserves.

I can tell you that the Bulls have tried to do something to honor His Airness both times last season (eventhough he only played in the first game) the Wiz came to Chicago, as well as this season, but MJ has shot it down. The team doesn't want to do something that he's isn't comfortable with, so they have asked his permission ... everytime HE says NO -- From what I know, the Bulls will hold the introductions OUT FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES THIS TIME AND TNT has said it is alright with them. They will also do the same on Jan. 24 when ESPN broadcasts his final UC game.

I'll stop now because I don't want to drone on and on. But to say that the Bulls have disrespected ANY of these players is simply not right. The Bulls are not perfect, but they are not as stupid and evil as some love to paint them to be.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MyBallsStillHurt</b>!
> 
> 
> VD -
> ...



Always look forward to your posts , even if I don't agree with all of it. Great stuff as usual.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

TY MBH!!


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Oh yeah, Pippen the jerk ...  

He does seem like one on tv. I loved it when he grabbed the stack of towels and flung them to the ground after losing to the Lakers a couple years ago in the playoffs. It was right after Sabonis got his last second shot blocked by Kobe. Man that was classic, what a baby ! Then that poor little towel guy crept into the screen and had to clean up Scottie's mess.


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## MyBallsStillHurt (May 30, 2002)

Earlier today I suggested to the Bulls that they give Scottie a 1.8 second salute before tonight's opening tip - unfortunately, they said they would take a pass on my idea.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MyBallsStillHurt</b>!
> VD -
> 
> Too bad you and I disagree, but we seem to on so many occassions. Where to start? There are just too many to recap without droning on. But let me throw in a couple of pennies on the issue of Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and the Great One - Michael Jordan.
> ...


Nice post MBH. Most of the things you shared are news to me, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are a somebody in the Bulls organization or at least that you are friends w/ a somebody. Also, how you know that NBC was behind the cutting of MJ's ovation (it was ~1 minute only) is also news to me as well. Fine.

Per the Horace Grant discussion, how can you justify the smear campaign and bogus 'handshake' deal news conference held by Jerry Reinsdorf. It was an obvious attempt to save face, put the blame on Horace, and smear his reputation as a player. So yes, Horace was disrespected by the Chicago Bulls. Does he deserve some type of tribute? That is debatable. Was he disrespected by the Bulls organization? Yes.

Per the Scottie Pippen discussion, you are implying that Scottie is lying to the media to make a point. Fine. There may well be a retirement ceremony (whether pre-arranged or not).. but this fan will be shocked to see both Jerry's there. If they are, remind me in a few months and I'll take back my aforementioned doubts about the Jerry's, especially Jerry K.

Good stuff man, and since you seem to have the inside opinion... you should post here more often. PEace.



VD


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## Bayonet (Jun 3, 2002)

M.B.S.H. You are the MAN!!!

Thank you for a GREAT post!


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