# Official Raptors 2005 DRAFT PROSPECT WATCH THREAD!!!



## rapsfan4life

Hello All, 

I thought it would be a good idea to keep up to date on ncca schedule games that feature prospects we might look at.
Being a big ncaa fan, i always enjoy doing some fan scouting. 

So basically this thread lets us all post about games that feature prospects that interest us and we can easily catch on t.v.


I'll get things started, on new years eve the score is starting their first of 20 games this year by featuring: GEORGIA TECH AGAINST KANSAS, January 1 at 2:30 pm ET 

Prospects of interest in this game include:

Jared Jack: chris bosh's best friend, very talented

JR Giddens:Athletic freak who can shoot the 3, needs to work on handles

Wayne simien: injury prone beast, not too athletic but can play

others( likely second rounders) : aaron miles, luke schenser, ishmail mohammed, BJ Elder, keith langford.

feel free to add, i'll update this after the game!


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## Lope31

Sweet idea man, I'm hoping Jarret Jack does well but not well enough that he gets taken before us. Is he better than Chris Paul? Lots of people don't seem to think so but who knows. Time will tell.


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## rapsfan4life

I have seen at least 10 Jack games and even more Paul game games, Jack is really impressing me, he is a warrior and just seems physically superior to any other point guards guarding him. He can shoot, and drive relentlessly and knows how to maintane control of his team and the game tempo.

Paul in my opinion is so overrated its rediculous, i think he will be pretty descent as a pro, think T.J Ford, but he doesn't deserve the labels he got early and has cooled off a bit as of late.


^ I know what you mean man. Hopefully Jack wont dominate so that he gets picked to high, which worries me but its still extremely early.


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## CrookedJ

Wayne Simien is out 4-6 weeks from Dec 20 after having thumb surgery. not sure if it was broken or what, but he'll be out unitl late january.

Excited to see GT though.


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## butr

I don't know if I like Paul that much for the NBA game. He's a bit small.

Gilchrist sounds like a bit of a headcase. When things are down, he gets the VC body language. We don't need more of that.


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## rapsfan4life

^ yea gilchrist is a little too intense but man he has heart, unlike someone else we know.


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## rapsfan4life

Statlines for tonight were interesting:


Hakim Warrick: 29points, 6 rebs and 1 assist

Chris Paul: 10 points, 1 reb, 4 assists :sour: 

Deron Williams: 14 points, 4 rebs, 6 assists

Raymond felton: 13 points, 2 rebs, 8 assists

Rashad Mccants: 12 points, 3 rebs, 5 assists

Marvin Williams: 14 points 6 rebs and 1 assist off the bench, also 6-8 shooting descent

Sean Banks: 19 points, 12 rebs, 6 assists

Rodney Carney: 8, 2, 2 got benched

DJ Washington: 17, 7, 6 (freshman:yes: )

Bogut: 25 and 15 

Garcia: 23,6,6

Josh Boone: 22, 10 and 1 

Rudy Gay: 15, 6, 2


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## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> I have seen at least 10 Jack games and even more Paul game games, Jack is really impressing me, he is a warrior and just seems physically superior to any other point guards guarding him. He can shoot, and drive relentlessly and knows how to maintane control of his team and the game tempo.
> 
> Paul in my opinion is so overrated its rediculous, i think he will be pretty descent as a pro, think T.J Ford, but he doesn't deserve the labels he got early and has cooled off a bit as of late.
> 
> 
> ^ I know what you mean man. Hopefully Jack wont dominate so that he gets picked to high, which worries me but its still extremely early.


TJ Ford looked amazing as an undersized rookie point guard, even without a the good jumpshot that Paul has. If he's taller TJ with a jumper, a top 3 projection isn't overrated.


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## SkywalkerAC

Warrick's pretty underrated these days. I'd love to grab him with the Philly pick. He's just so long and athletic and can't be defended one on one. Has put up impressive numbers year after year.

Season Averages 
YR GMS MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS 
2004-05 13 36.7 19.5 9.2 2.0 2.9 1/1.5 1.0 1.6 1.5 .576 .622 .333 1.47 
2003-04 31 37.3 19.8 8.5 2.6 3.1 1/1.2 0.9 1.1 2.7 .509 .692 .000 1.41 
2002-03 35 32.7 14.8 8.5 1.6 2.6 1/1.6 1.4 1.3 2.7 .541 .667 .000 1.42 
2001-02 35 17.4 6.1 4.8 0.5 1.1 1/2.2 0.6 0.6 2.0 .552 .383 .500 1.24 

Depending on where we land in the draft I'm really hoping we come out with one of Nemanja, Warrick, or Williams- true small forward freaks.


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## rapsfan4life

Sky: I agree 100% about warrick, just a true freak.


As for paul, i know tj is did really well as a rookie, and that why i said solid pro, i think he is overrated because people were saying undisputed 1st overall pick early on, that probly surely wont happen now.


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## madman

I would love to get warrick but it causes more of a pile up of sf/sg hopefully we can move Rose's contract and get back a big instead


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## rapsfan4life

The box scores for tonight: Dec 31, 2004



Malik Hariston: 7, 1, 2

Aaron Brooks: 34, 1 and 3

Ronnie Brewer: 18, 4, and 3

Deron Williams: 18, 6 and 4 :yes: 

Ryan Gomes: 17, 8 and 4


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## mr hoopster

I wish Gred Oden Jr. was in this draft or OJ Mayo i want the Raptors to get one of em so bad. We''ll have to wait for 2006 tho.


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## HeinzGuderian

Paul can't run the break as well as Ford, (not too many can) but he is a better scorer. There are so many good PG's its hard to tell who will be the best in the NBA. If I was a GM that needed a pg, at this point I would take Deron Williams. After that it depends on what I wanted for my team. There aren't any sg's that strike me as lottery worthy. Some decent SF prospects, Marvin Williams may be the best if he declares this year, Warrick and Adam Morrison (if he declares) are probably the best SF's after that. Not quite sure what Toronto needs the most. Araujo doesnt seem like the best long term fix at the C spot, Alston is pretty good but with the talent at the PG in this years draft they could grab one of them. They have a bunch of average players loaded up at the SG/SF spots, nothin special there. If I got an early lottery pick as the Raps I would try and take Chris Taft. After that one of the PGs. I'm not crazy about the Bogut like some people are, and I'm not a fan of foreign projects like Splitter or Aleksandwhatever.


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## rapsfan4life

GA Tech vs. Kansas is on now, check it out, jack is impressive


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## Crossword

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> GA Tech vs. Kansas is on now, check it out, jack is impressive


what channel...

EDIT: nvm


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## rapsfan4life

Stats for the game:


Jack: 26, 5 and 3 , 10/12 and made incredibly tough shots

Muhammed: 8, 7 and 2

Bynum: 7, 2 and 3

Giddens: 16, 3 and 1

Miles: 14, 5 and 8

Langford: 18, 6 and 1


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## Turkish Delight

We should draft Marc Woizinsky.
He's 6`1, 145 pounds. 
Would probably grow into a good 2 guard. 
Although he was nowhere close to making his high school basketball team, this kid has a load of potential.


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## Crossword

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> We should draft Marc Woizinsky.
> He's 6`1, 145 pounds.
> Would probably grow into a good 2 guard.
> Although he didn't make his High School Basketball Team, this kid has a load of potential.


Yo man I heard about this kid... he's got MAD potential. He's a keeper. :yes:


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## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Yo man I heard about this kid... he's got MAD potential. He's a keeper. :yes:


Babcock!!!
Sign Marc Woizinsky now!


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## SkywalkerAC

Think Jarvis Hayes is a good comparison for Giddens?

James White in the second round perhaps? He's not tearing up the stat sheet but he's still a world class athlete. 

I wonder if Nemanja is getting any minutes in Europe...


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## rapsfan4life

Video of Jarret Jack and Giddens

http://s21.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...5O0DQW6AU3JN013




http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...533HGDMEMBAGVYD



for whoever is interested


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## rapsfan4life

Tonights statlines:


Marvin Williams jr. : 14, 8 and 1 in 21 mins of the bench (10 points from the free throw line)

Felton: 8, 4 and 12 (impressive assist total)

Mccants: 15, 2 and 2

Jawad Williams: 19, 3 and 1

Fransisco Garcia: 29, 3 and 4:yes: 

Ike Diogu: 23, 11 and 2

Hassan adams: 8,10 and 7

Greer: 23 and 12

Chris paul: 21, 9 and 2 (not too shaby)

Karl Krauser: 20, 5 and 2

Chris Taft: 19 and 5

Coppenwrath: 35, 9 and 3


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## AdamIllman

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Think Jarvis Hayes is a good comparison for Giddens?
> 
> James White in the second round perhaps? He's not tearing up the stat sheet but he's still a world class athlete.
> 
> I wonder if Nemanja is getting any minutes in Europe...


offensively he reminds me of Mo Pete of last season...all the physical tools he needs to get to the bucket and get to the line 5-6 times a game but he just doesnt do it. He sits on the perimeter and jacks 3s.


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## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> 
> 
> offensively he reminds me of Mo Pete of last season...all the physical tools he needs to get to the bucket and get to the line 5-6 times a game but he just doesnt do it. He sits on the perimeter and jacks 3s.


Perfect analysis of Giddens.

The guy should have a good mid-range / slashing game given his skillset.


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## rapsfan4life

Tonights statline Mon jan 3:


Gomes: 24, 14 and 4

Graham: 20, 9 and 4

Danny Granger: 25, 10 and 3

Bogut: 24 and 17  



slow night tonight guys, Bogut stands out there, granger is an imporessive prospect, seen him play a few times, draftcity is high on him, he will make noise if new mexico can get to tourney and they are first in their confrence. Graham is an attractive second rounder.


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## rapsfan4life

Slow night tonight guys!  


The only game and player of note tonight is john Gilchrist going at it, he's playing pretty well so far. I'll have an update later on tonight.

Anyway check back tommorow night, its big big big night, lots of prospects, don't miss it


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## rapsfan4life

Alright so the statline JG:



17 points, 3 rebs, 3 assists in 26 mins of a blowout


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## The Mad Viking

NBA draft has Bogut going 12th...

I would never let him go that low if I was Babs. I would take him at 4th pick, but I'm sure we will be lower than that by the end of the season...


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## SkywalkerAC

I'd be suprised if Bogut fell past us. You don't let a big man talent like that slip by unless there's someone great on the board. As I said before, I'd like to continue building our frontcourt and Bogut would give us 3 good big men to build around.


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## The Mad Viking

I would be inclined to take Gerald Green as my other first round pick. 6-8 HS kid from Texas.

Awesome jumpshooter as well as great athlete, steals, blocks, dunks, rebounds, and projects as a SG in the NBA because of his sick perimeter game and solid handles.


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## rapsfan4life

Yes Bogut is really impressive and its a bog night tonigh for the ncaa as i mentioned before, i will post the nightly statline in a few minutes as there are still some games being played out. And yes Bogut is playing tonight so lets see what he brings.


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## rapsfan4life

Tonight's statline: Wed jan 5, 2005



Rudy Gay: 13 and 5

Josh Boone:18, 9 and 1

Aaron miles: 15, 3 and 5

Giddens: o, 2 and 1  ( dont know if he's injured)

Garcia: 13 and 2 with fould trouble

Taft: 20, 5 and 1

Reddick: 21, 2

S. Williams: 7, 14

Roberts: 19 and 15

Deron Williams: 14, 3 and 8 

Warrick: 22, 6 and 2

Coppenrath: 28, 6 and 4   he is doing this all season



Those are the only ones of note i can get on the spot, the bogut game has no box score available.


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## rapsfan4life

Update on Bogut:

23 points and 8 rebounds! consistent:yes:


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## SkywalkerAC

Warrick and Deron Williams:yes:


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## speedythief

I haven't done a lot of "scouting" yet this year, but I'm going to start soon. I mostly make up my mind on who I want based on the NCAA tournament.

Right now it looks like we'll probably get the 8th and Philly's pick... the way AI is playing... will probably be in the 12th-14th range. Hard to tell.

With the 8th we could nail someone like Felton or Jack. I think we really need a point guard. I cringe at the thought of Alston getting injured.

I don't know much about Gilchrist, Deron Williams, Louis Williams, Fernandez, Hodge or Ukic, the other point-guard prospects. Hopefully I'll get to see a couple of them in March.

With the other pick I'd like to see us draft a wingman, preferably a forward before a shooting guard.

I'm a 'Cuse fan so I like Hakim Warrick. He is a tremendous athlete who might be lethal beside Bosh. He reminds me a little of Darius Miles, but without the passing ability. Warrick could be a very good defender and difficult match-up for most squads.

Gerald Green and Sean Banks are a couple of other players I'd like to get a look at. Good size, athleticism, the ability to be strong defenders. Gerald Green supposedly has a bit of a lazy attitude, but it's easy to get mislabeled in college or high school. If we work him out and he looks enthusiastic, hopefully after having a good season at OSU, then I wouldn't be concerned. Otherwise I'd stay away from him like the plague.

With Bonner, Bosh, Araujo and Woods, I don't think we are desperate for another big man. Unless we get somebody with a lot of potential who slips-down a bit (like the Serbian kid, Johan Petro, maybe Bogut) then I think it would be better to stock-up on guards and swings.


People are forgetting that we have two second-round picks this year, don't we? I know we traded one to get Bonner, but I think we own ours and Miami's this year. I'd love to grab Nate Robinson in the second, or somebody like that.


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## rapsfan4life

Agreed speedy. The tourney is when the true talents stick out like asore thumb. Remember Wade a few years back 


Anyway i would love for one of the second rounders to be nate robinson, but have you seen his stats this year? 
He is getting bousted up like a rocket on mock drafts, but again its all really early so we need to be patient and enjoy the raps while we still can.


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## rapsfan4life

Tonight's statline: jan 6, 2005



Mendez: 19, 11 and 1 canadian kid

Carney: 18 and 5

Banks: 17, 4 and 2

Diaz: 27, 6 and 2

Jarrett Jack: 14, 9 and 2

Will Bynum: 21, 2 and 7

Muhammed: 8, 4 and 3

Frye: 20 and 8


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## rapsfan4life

UNC/maryland, OKl/Tx tech, illinois/ purdue

Tomorrow on the score at 12 pm, 2pm, 4pm

Prospects included in these game:

Marvin Williams

Jawad Williams

Raymond Felton

John Gilstrist

Deron Williams

Dee brown

Luther Head


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## rapsfan4life

UNC vs Maryland is on the score now!!!!! Chance to see marvin


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## ansoncarter

dick vitale loves him baby! going nuts over him! it's getting annoying babyyyyyyy! I think imma have to turn the chanel and watch pokemon baby!


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## rapsfan4life

Tonight's statline: jan9


Hodge: 14 and 12

Diaz: 26 and 2

Aldridge: 16 and 11

Carney: 15, 5 and1

banks: 5, 2 and 5 :sour: 

miles: 5, 4 and 5

Langford: 10, 7 and 2

Giddens: 10, 5 and 1


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## pspot

Marvin looked great on Saturday, but so did all of UNC, i think they had like 8 guys in double figures
He did look a lot smaller then i thought he would, i thought he was supposed to be like 6' 10" 230lbs, he looked more like 6' 8" 210, which is actaully alright because he is more of a natural 3 then

Also, Jack's stock is rising and our picks are falling :no: 

It looks like we will probably will miss out on getting both of these guys, so if it came down to it, do we try and trade both picks to move up and grab Marvin and not take Jack, or take Jack and grab someone else like maybe Warrick with the other pick. I havnt seen Warrick yet so im not sure how he compares to Marvin


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## rapsfan4life

Well i just dont think we were bad enough to get marvin in the first place, scouts were ready to take him in the top 3. Jack can still slip to us because there are still many questions about his game, i'm not worried about that becasue what he does well, we need 

As for the lower pick, i guess we are forced to warrick or green. Its still way to early and for now we should just enjoy how these kids are playing and trying to elevate their stock while we enjoy our raps:yes:


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## pspot

Its just a weird draft because there are really only the two or three prospects at the 3, which is what we really need. so maybe we go with Jack and then trade the other pick for a 2nd or 3rd year SF.

Im seeing Marvin as high as the number 1 pick right now, so i guess your right, and i cant wait to see the UNC vs Georgia Tech game coming up, i hope its televised


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## rapsfan4life

All on raps t.v starting at 7 for you guys interested,

Syracuse/ notre dame
Unconn/ oklahoma
Unlv/Utah


Chance for us to see a guy who we may get concidering our picks are getting lower and lower.... WARRICK

Hakim warrick
Andrew Bogut
Josh Boone
Chris Thomas
Rudy Gay



those are the main stars and feel free to add anyone i missed


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## pspot

anyone know what happened in tonights NC GT game?


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## rapsfan4life

^ yea man here is the box score:

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/gamecenter/recap/[email protected]


UNC killed it   


Jack played awesome but unc is so talented, what like 6 guys well over 10 points.


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## pspot

What a crazy month so far
we have gone from discussing Marv Jr and Jack with two high lottos, with Jack being positioned as a late lotto, to possibly only picking late lottos, and missing out on Jack completely as he has climbed up the rankings
I guess a 5 game home stand will do that


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## rapsfan4life

Stats for last night's standouts


Juan Mendez: 20 and 11

Nate Robinson: 14, 5 and 4

Rodney Carney: 29, 5 and 3  

Diogu: 15 and 11


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## bigbabyjesus

I wouldn't mind getting Gerald Green with our lower pick. I don't like that he is being labelled as lazy, but when you are so much more athletic and talented then the people around you, it looks as though you are lazy sometimes.

I don't think we should take a PF or C. We should continue to give Bosh, Araujo, Bonner time, and start to develop Sow. That could be our two frontcourt positions set for the future.

And Raymond Felton would be the PERFECT point guard for this team. Excellent vision, passing skills, great defender and size.. can blow past his man or post up and has been working non stop on his jump shot.


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## rapsfan4life

NCAA Weekend!! Prospects galore 

Syracuse/Providence: cbs on now!
Ind/pur the score on now!
Unc/wake forest, ABC on now!!
Ucla/ arizona, 6:00 ch 231 if you have digital cable package


I don't even have to mention the talent in those games, except for the ind pur game where there is wright and pat ewing jr. as well as dj white. 


i'll keep updating later and update on tomorrow's games


watch wake and UNC, cuse and prov, warrick is crazy!


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## pspot

Anyone watch that UNC Wake game, I was pretty surprised with how easily Wake took that one, and i would expect a much more competitive game next time they play

Paul looks great, his size will be the only ? for him but he is a great player and leader

I was not impressed with McCants i know he got into foul trouble, but it just seemed like he has an attitude, and the look on his face eerily reminded me of Vince, that *****y, whiney look…do you agree?


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## SkywalkerAC

In Hodge's last game he only shot 1 for 7 but got to the line 14 times (for 14 points), had 10 rebounds and 4 assists (i think) in a win.


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## rapsfan4life

No they lost but hodge showed what he is made of, his shot didn't drop even though it usually does, but he asserted himself anyway. 

Paul is really coming together, i had my criticisms of him early but he is damn good, i still dont think he merits top 3 pick as those are reserved for franchise/very good players with all star potential. But he will be good, i'm thinking something like t.j ford with a shot which ain't bad.


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## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> No they lost but hodge showed what he is made of, his shot didn't drop even though it usually does, but he asserted himself anyway.
> 
> Paul is really coming together, i had my criticisms of him early but he is damn good, i still dont think he merits top 3 pick as those are reserved for franchise/very good players with all star potential. But he will be good, i'm thinking something like t.j ford with a shot which ain't bad.


sounds like a top 3 pick to me.


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## rapsfan4life

hey, regardless he will be a top 3 pick or at lest top 5, which will leave the other points coming to the raps, fingers crossed


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## CrookedJ

Heres some players that I would like to see and some general thoughts on solid draft picks.

Experienced College SG's that are athletic and solid defensively are good picks - Wade, Tony Allen. Most teams aren't looking at 2 guards early on since its a position that most teams have a good guy already. These are as close to certain picks as you can make. I like McCants, but haven't seem him play this year - apparently the defense is getting better.

Has anyone seen Julius Hodge play? Can he defend? I am intrigued. 

Green I worry about the attitude. Also don't like what I read about Gilchrist not really being into praticing and having "indentity" issues after being MVP of ACC tourny last year. I want a player that will be angry when they loss (Bosh/Rafer)

There could be some solid PG's available later on (late first early second)

Aaron Miles
Carl Krauser
Travis Diener

Krauser esp. but all could be solid PG's if Jack/Felton aren't available when we pick or something else is available.

I think the most important thing to acquire in this draft is a athletic wing defender to pair with Mo Pete. Assuming Jalen is gone ( or certainly not in long term plan) you have Eric williams to start while the rook gets climatized, and then Eric and Lamond (or possibly another pick) off the bench. It could be a smaller gaurd (Mcants / Hodge) and let Mo play SF or we could go with a bigger SF like Warrick and play Mo at SG. 

Keep in mind the philosophy that Babcock has regarding players with questionable work ethic - they will not be drafted by this team.


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## rapsfan4life

> Rodney Carney: 29, 5 and 3



That's your athletic wing defender my man, and he can score some and make the highlight reel too which doesn't hurt. 

I suggest all of you who are interested check this kid out on memphis any time you can because he will be one to check out.


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## Junkyard Dog13

nbadraf.net has |Williams at #1 and us taking Mccants and Felton with our other pick.
I think that would bew a solid core to build the backcourt with.


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## rapsfan4life

the two carolina boys eh?

Seriously don't put stock on who draft mocks have us taking because really its just a projection of how the guys are doing in their overall ranking, really the mocks aren't concidering the teams needs, etc at this point and not for quite sometime until maybe a month before the draft and in etreme detail like a week or two before, still fun to look at though


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## McFurious

Why is Chris Taft ranked so high? I have a feeling he wont be a top 5 pick. If we can grab Felton I would be very happy but really you cant go by anything these mocks put up cause there is no telling who these teams are going to like.. even the # 1 pick is up in the air and I have a feelin Chris Paul will not be it I think a lot of teams are going to go away from this guy b/c of his size.


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## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> Why is Chris Taft ranked so high? I have a feeling he wont be a top 5 pick. If we can grab Felton I would be very happy but really you cant go by anything these mocks put up cause there is no telling who these teams are going to like.. even the # 1 pick is up in the air and I have a feelin Chris Paul will not be it I think a lot of teams are going to go away from this guy b/c of his size.


I think he's got a decent chance to go at #4 or #5 but I agree that he seems overrated. I don't really want him but probably would if we didn't have our two starting big men in place. The only time I watched him this season he showed very little lift, pretty much getting rimstuffed. 

To my knowledge (ie this thread) he hasn't been on a statistical tear of late. It's not much of a suprise that draft city has Bogut and Splitter ranked ahead of him. 

I do think that there will be a decent array of big men going in this draft that will be going in the top 10. It would be a welcome change to have 3 high potential big men on the Raps.

Anyone know how Petro has been doing lately? How about Splitter?


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## rapsfan4life

Huge might statistically in the ncaa, for some of the legitimate prospects and for some of the up and comers that are getting their name legitimately out there. I"LL POST THE BREAKOUT STATLINES

Jan 18, 2005 statlines

Known guys:

Warrick: 25 and 11  he's gotta quit these performances or we wont have a shot at him:no: 

Chris Paul: 28, 8 and 6   

Carl Krauser: 22, 7 and 7

Darryl Hill: 26, 5 and 3 (senior so has to be in this draft, likely 2nd rounder

Antoine Wright: 24, 3 and 2

Winston: 24, 3 and 3





Future draft prospects: for those experts out there like me  

Von Wafer: 30, 2 and 1

Shannon Brown: 20, 9 and 4

Carl Landry: 31, 9 and 1

Shelton: 34 and 3


That's about all the big standouts, sorry for not posting this for the last few weeks, got lazy and there weren't too many crazy stats anyway


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## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> Huge might statistically in the ncaa, for some of the legitimate prospects and for some of the up and comers that are getting their name legitimately out there. I"LL POST THE BREAKOUT STATLINES
> 
> Jan 18, 2005 statlines
> 
> Known guys:
> 
> Warrick: 25 and 11  he's gotta quit these performances or we wont have a shot at him:no:
> 
> Chris Paul: 28, 8 and 6
> 
> Carl Krauser: 22, 7 and 7
> 
> Darryl Hill: 26, 5 and 3 (senior so has to be in this draft, likely 2nd rounder
> 
> Antoine Wright: 24, 3 and 2
> 
> Winston: 24, 3 and 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Future draft prospects: for those experts out there like me
> 
> Von Wafer: 30, 2 and 1
> 
> Shannon Brown: 20, 9 and 4
> 
> Carl Landry: 31, 9 and 1
> 
> Shelton: 34 and 3
> 
> 
> That's about all the big standouts, sorry for not posting this for the last few weeks, got lazy and there weren't too many crazy stats anyway


The next Georgetown Big Man that might go in the top 10 played tonight as well. JEFF GREEN - a somewhat obscure prospect entering his senior year, who got alot of attention late in the recruiting game . He will be the Big East Freshmen of the Year. 

He won't enter the draft this year, but maybe next. He is averaging 14 and 8.


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## JuniorNoboa

RapsFan4life do you just follow prospects or actually follow the college basketball teams?

We can use some more posters on the college boards. Especially a fellow Canadian.


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## JuniorNoboa

With Regards to Taft.

We talked last night about how there have not been many who have made themselves prospect in the NCAA tournament. I don't think the tournament effects many because they are already known before and it is only a few games.

However, I do think there is a negaive effect on prospects whose teams significantly underachive over the course of a season - it just seems to raise doubts about a player. And Pitt is significantly underacheiving - this could hurt Taft's ranking a few spots.


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## rapsfan4life

^oh i follow the college game as you can probably tell, i'm not a big stats guy, i enjoy seeing what guys can actually do to impact a game not just stats wise.

As for the college board i've posted once in a while when something catches my eye but i mostly just lurk and read posts but i will pop up once in a while.


----------



## The Mad Viking

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> I think he's got a decent chance to go at #4 or #5 but I agree that he seems overrated. I don't really want him but probably would if we didn't have our two starting big men in place. The only time I watched him this season he showed very little lift, pretty much getting rimstuffed.
> 
> To my knowledge (ie this thread) he hasn't been on a statistical tear of late. It's not much of a suprise that draft city has Bogut and Splitter ranked ahead of him.
> 
> I do think that there will be a decent array of big men going in this draft that will be going in the top 10. It would be a welcome change to have 3 high potential big men on the Raps.
> 
> Anyone know how Petro has been doing lately? How about Splitter?


Spliltter is doing quite well. Petro is reminding people of Jerome Moiso...


----------



## The Mad Viking

Bogut 25 and 18...

Won't be on boards for Raps... 

Strangely, Warrick could still be there. Scouts seem put off by his lack of a jumper, ball skills etc. Obviously limitations, but I like a guy who doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time, and we have no shortage of guys to jack it from the arc. Even if he is a DMiles clone, or even somewhere between DMiles and Stro, that is very useful player to have on a roster.


----------



## CrookedJ

> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> Bogut 25 and 18...
> 
> Won't be on boards for Raps...
> 
> Strangely, Warrick could still be there. Scouts seem put off by his lack of a jumper, ball skills etc. Obviously limitations, but I like a guy who doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time, and we have no shortage of guys to jack it from the arc. Even if he is a DMiles clone, or even somewhere between DMiles and Stro, that is very useful player to have on a roster.


He'd look good with Bosh thats for sure, SO me good athletes for the fast break with MO and Rafer. Everyone is a good defender. I like! 

Keep in mind that some GM's might already be talking down his value to keep him around for their pick. Look at a player like Amare and the jumper he's developed in three seasons. It can be done.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Warrick is definitly a clone of miles/swift but with a descent mid range jumper/post up game and contrary to popular belief he actually does have solid handling skills, dont belief the crap from nbadraft.net because they dont update their profiles. Watch him play and you will like.


----------



## pspot

I dont get these Mocks, one has Jack as the 6th and then the other has him at 23, same for Warrick, one has him at like 7 and the other 19

Does anyone know their college ball
What are the real rankings of these players, who should be a high pick
or do they change that much from week to week, and players are that close in talent


----------



## VTRapsfan

I hope we take Jack and Warrick. Jack can be a good backup point (better than Milt), and Warrick would complement Bonner perfectly off the bench. Look at our lineup if we take those 2 (assuming we don't have 'Yell, Zo, or Alvin Williams).
PG Skip/Jack/Palacio
SG Mo/Jalen
SF EWill/Warrick/Murray/Bonner/Jalen
PF Bosh/Bonner/Sow/AWill
C Hoffa/Bosh/Woods/AWill
Our depth at forward is amazing...plus, with one of our other picks we'll get a decent combo guard for the bench. EDIT: Found one! Don't know much about him, but he looks pretty good here - http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=5109


----------



## rapsfan4life

> Does anyone know their college ball,What are the real rankings of these players, who should be a high pick
> or do they change that much from week to week, and players are that close in talent



well i'll tell you what, at this point mock drafts are not reliable at all because it is basically the opinions of guys like us who try and watch as many prospects as possible and have their favorites, however these guys do get access to camps and such and do converse with scouts etc so they are usually quite accurate but that comes a few months from now when the draft is hot. Now as you well know there is a competition between the guys at nbadraft.net and draftcity and they each supposedly have their favorites and plug their own guys and apparently nbadraft.net isn't big on warrick and jack where as draftcity are real high on them. So basically dont put too much stock on it until a few months from now.

As far as luther head he is compared to eddie house which is pretty good but head is more dynamic and has better point skills, but i like him as do all ncaa followers because his game is fun to watch, good second rounder.


----------



## butr

Shelden Williams

32 pts 8 rebs 12/13 fg 8/8 ft

If this guy slips out of the first, at least 10 GMs didn't do their job.

Man fights through the contact, has a nice post game, a nice little shot, strong and while not tall, long.

Duke is not just for perimeter guys, wake up scouts.


----------



## rapsfan4life

yea dont worry man scouts no about him, but he is projected to go all the way to his senior year from what i hear, his weakness is he cant play center at his height and is to slow for the pf but i disagree. Oh well


----------



## butr

Every NBA GM at the time thought that Ben Wallace was not even worth using a 2nd rounder.

Now a 6-9 240 Ib two-time defensive player of the year at Centre.

Carlos Boozer was worth a 2nd rounder at 35 overall. Is now averaging 19+ and 9+ as a 6-8 258 Ib PF/C.

As for coming out. He'll never be a top 10 pick. Big guys from Duke get no love. But if he does like most and takes the pulse of the league, if I were Rob, I would make it known that he would definitely be taken in the first round by someone if he declared. Then take him.


Boozer at Duke

............... MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
99-00 Duke 23.7 61.4 0.0 74.2 6.3 1.1 1.6 0.7 1.1 13.0
00-01 Duke 25.6 60.4 0.0 71.9 6.5 1.3 1.2 0.9 0.9 13.3
01-02 Duke 28.4 66.5 0.0 75.4 8.7 1.1 1.9 0.6 0.9 18.2

Ben Wallace at VU

SEASON TEAM ...........G MIN FG FGA FG% FG3 FG3A FG3% FT FTA FT% PTS AVG 
1994-95 Virginia Union 31 858 180 330 54.5 0 0 0.0 85 209 40.7 445 14.4 
1995-96 Virginia Union 31 902 159 318 50.0 0 0 0.0 70 187 37.4 388 12.5 


SEASON TEAM ...........G MIN REB RAVG A AAVG STL 
1994-95 Virginia Union 31 858 295 9.5 27 0.9 
1995-96 Virginia Union 31 902 325 10.5 18 0.6


Shelden

YR ...... GMS MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS 
2004-05 14 32.9 15.9 11.1 0.6 2.6 1/4 0.9 3.8 2.7 .620 .726 .000 1.63 
2003-04 37 26.0 12.6 8.5 0.9 2.4 1/2.6 1.0 3.0 3.2 .586 .690 .400 1.67 
2002-03 32 19.0 8.2 5.8 0.4 1.8 1/4.1 0.7 1.6 3.0 .514 .631 .000 1.46


----------



## rapsfan4life

nba draft.net just put up its top 10 ranking by position up. Written by Aaron smith but i dont like this guy, some of his rankings are way off, he has Jack as the 7th ranked pg:uhoh: 

http://nbadraft.net/2005positional.asp


----------



## rapsfan4life

PITT AND UCONN ON THE SCORE ON AT 9 PM 

CHECK IT OUT IF INTERESTED!!!!!!!!

Taft
boone
krauser
villenueva
Gay

all good prospects to look at


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I've heard a lot of intriguing things about Gerald Green lately, and supposedly us and Boston are always watching him, and around him.

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=2&c=344630


----------



## CrookedJ

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> I've heard a lot of intriguing things about Gerald Green lately, and supposedly us and Boston are always watching him, and around him.
> 
> http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=2&c=344630


Wow I see - he certainly has a coach that is willing to showcase his skills :



> So he plays the whole game and doesn’t get much rest. And I play him at all positions – the 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 – in almost every game. He can do it all.”
> 
> Williams said Green’s best game of the season came against Blue Ridge (Va.) High School. The 6-8 Green scored 50 points in Gulf Shores’ 69-50 victory.
> 
> “I wanted him to score 80,” Williams said, “but he’s an unselfish kind of guy and started passing to his teammates. It was amazing to see. He was coming off the pick and hitting his open shots and making his free throws. I really think he could have scored 80 that night.”
> 
> That’s the reason NBA scouts are at every one of Green’s games. “*Toronto and the Boston Celtics are living down here*,” Williams said. “He’s exactly what they’re looking for.”


So we basically have to finish worse than Boston to get a shot at him. If he's that good there are prolly several others interesed as well.


----------



## butr

Trade deadline is Feb 24. We will have at least 28 games left to fall back assuming one or both of JR and DM are traded.


----------



## rapsfan4life

http://www.nbadraft.net/draftbuzz029.asp


here is a very good read. Aaron smith redeamed himself a bit in my book with this because he seems like he actually watches these guys based on this article. 

Discuss


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Good to hear that we're heavily scouting Gerald Green, hope we're doing the same with Rudy Gay. I would think that Boston should select a good point guard rather than developing a wing player; after all, they already have Jiri, Tony Allen, Pierce, and Ricky Davis whereas Payton should be gone. 

There will be plenty of internationals emerging as potential lottery picks. Ersan Ilysova is certainly intriguing and I'm not so sure that Nemanja would pass up on such a relatively weak draft class, same goes for Martynas.


----------



## butr

Prospect Comments
1.
Tiago Splitter 6-11 236 PF Brazil 1985 Has rebounded well for Tau, after tanking in workouts in Chicago last year.
2.
Josh Boone 6-10 237 PF UConn So. The most relentless rebounder in college, his game is improving on a daily basis.
3.
Fran Vazquez 6-10 230 PF Spain 1983 One of the few Euros that will be instant contributers in the NBA.
4.
V. Veremeenko 6-10 235 PF Belarus 1984 A "good tweener". Has the size and disposition of a 4, but shows off some 3 skills.
5.
Hakim Warrick 6-8 220 SF/PF Syracuse Sr. Cannot guard 3s so he is a 4. No position, no real skills, an "energy player".
6.
Andrea Bargnani 6-10 225 PF Italy 1985 The closest thing to Dirk in Europe. Best Italian prospect ever.
7.
LaMarcus Aldridge 6-11 230 PF Texas Fr. Great potential, but not ready and the glut of 4s in this draft may force him to wait a year.
8.
Ronny Turiaf 6-9 243 PF Gonzaga Sr. NBA scouts are biased against French players. It's a fact. But Turiaf is a player.
9.
Wayne Simien 6-8 255 PF Kansas Sr. Must come back strong after being sidelined again with an injury.
10.
*Shelden Williams 6-9 250 PF Duke Jr. Mechanical, but a condor wingspan and a brute with decent touch.*




Remember this list. It will need some revising.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2005positional.asp


----------



## ansoncarter

draft city lists Sheldon Williams highlight as an 18pt, 13 rb game against Chris Bosh

he's the Bosh-stopper


----------



## butr

He is under-rated because he does not play that crazy explosive game. He is simply sound in every aspect of the game that you would hope from a combo 4/5.

Tremendous value. I mean look at the competition he has faced in the ACC over his 3 years and in the tourney. I would take Shelden over most of the over-rated Euros. But if 16 GMs are gonna fall asleep I'll take him with the sixers pick rather than ours.


----------



## butr

An off night for Duke. Shooting went cold down the stretch and caught a case of fumblitis.

Gilchrist did not impress me. But it's one game.

Shelden, like his teammates did not have the best shooting night. But he did his part.

18 pts on 6 of 15 with 6-9 from the line with 14 boards and 7 blocks.


----------



## lucky777s

If I remember correctly didn't Sheldon Williams esssentially outplay Okafor head to head in the tourney last year?

Only foul trouble for Williams kept a major upset from happening in that game.

From what I saw he is capable of producing similar stats to Emeka, IF he has the same desire and work ethic.

Bargnini is my guy. He was the best player on the floor in that pre-season game with the Raps. Love his game. If he comes out we have to get him.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Actually okafor was in foul trouble and than he came back with 4 fouls (only 5 in college) and single handedly led uconn to the win. Williams was a stud as well and they didn't really guard eachother that much.


----------



## rapsfan4life

COLLEGE STANDOUTS!!! Draft city, good read!!! (post #1) 


http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=91

Obviously i cant post the whole thing so i will post the players they talk about.


Chris Paul, PG, Wake
Kennedy Winston, G/F, Bama 
Andrew Bogut, F/C Utah
Hakim Warrick
Salim Stoudemire, G, Zona
Von Wafer, G/F FSU 
Daryll Hill, G, St Johns 
Shelden Williams, F/C, Duke 
Rajon Rondo, PG, UK 
Juan Mendez
Taj Gray
Guillermo Diaz (I Love this guy, a true freak, i know you guys probably don't him but his stock is flying up fast


Here is his proflile from the site, he is currently 17th in our range, dont know if he is right for our team but he is an awesome player and will put butts in the seats

http://draftcity.com/viewprofile.php?p=41


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> Actually okafor was in foul trouble and than he came back with 4 fouls (only 5 in college) and single handedly led uconn to the win. Williams was a stud as well and they didn't really guard eachother that much.


Williams did get into foul trouble in that game I recall. Once out, Okafor dominated.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I'd really like to see us acquire another pick at the trade deadline whether it be from Marshall or Rose, because if we had three picks in this draft it would allow us to trade two of them to get a top 6-7 pick, and keep the other to get another prospect.

I'd be extremely happy with any of Marvin Williams, Rudy Gay or Gerald Green.. all are so intriguing.


----------



## butr

A little head to head PG action.

Chris Paul

2-11 fg, 4-6 ft, 0-4 3pt, 8 pts, 7 asts, 3 to, 3 stls, 1 reb

Jarret Jack

7-11 fg, 8-10 ft, 1-4 3pt, 23 pts, 6 asts, 4 to, 2 stls, 8 rebs

GT was physical with Paul. Look what happened to him.

If I had the #1, it would not be Paul.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I don't like Paul as a top 5 pick.

Usually point guards under 6 feet have unbelieveable passing ability, and court vision.. Paul has neither.


----------



## CrookedJ

> Originally posted by <b>vigilante</b>!
> I don't like Paul as a top 5 pick.
> 
> Usually point guards under 6 feet have unbelieveable passing ability, and court vision.. Paul has neither.


Hard to say, I saw him on TV last weekend and I was impressed. It might be hard to take him that early with all the bigs available this year though. We would certainly take him in the 7-11 range if he's there.


----------



## ansoncarter

I'm gonna email Babcock right before the draft and tell him to take Warrick.

ulness he completely sucks and can't get minutes, he'll be one of the most entertaining players in the entire league.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

Gerald Green looks like a player we can build a solid playoff contender with, very high potential.


----------



## The Mad Viking

Charlie Villaneuva is gonna declare.

Tremendous athlete for 6-11, 240. Runs and jumps like a wing player.

Very raw coming in to Conn last year, but has taken off since Christmas.

In 7 games in January, is averaging 12 boards, 3 blocks and nearly 15ppg.

Good FT shooter and has range out to the three, but is playing mostly around the basket now. 

20 year old soph is going to get better. I think he will be able to play true 5 in the NBA when he fills out, as well as having all the PF skills.


----------



## CrookedJ

> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> Charlie Villaneuva is gonna declare.
> 
> Tremendous athlete for 6-11, 240. Runs and jumps like a wing player.
> 
> Very raw coming in to Conn last year, but has taken off since Christmas.
> 
> In 7 games in January, is averaging 12 boards, 3 blocks and nearly 15ppg.
> 
> Good FT shooter and has range out to the three, but is playing mostly around the basket now.
> 
> 20 year old soph is going to get better. I think he will be able to play true 5 in the NBA when he fills out, as well as having all the PF skills.


Thats an intersting spin on it. I , like many people, have tried to see Charlie as a potential 3 some day - just do to the quicks. he does have a frame bigger than a Bosh type and he could fill into a nice 5. He could be a very good scorer as a C - he be too quick for just about anyone. Solid shot blocker too.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Standings as of today, Our picks at 9 and 12, philly is slipping without A.I, hopefully they lose some more enough to drop a couple more spots and than A.I comes back to keep them steady. 
:yes:


----------



## NeoSamurai

gimme Andrew Bogut....i think this is the stud from Utah that can become the future starting center of the Raps...nabbing Bogut and either Warrick or Jack would be my ideal draft...

i know some will criticize me wanting Bogut, but i think this kid can ball even though hes playing in a weaker conference....he'll show how good he is in March, thatll be his breakout party and i hope we can nab him....

both him and Warrick are at the top of my wishlist...with Jack/Deron Williams at a close 3rd...


----------



## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>NeoSamurai</b>!
> gimme Andrew Bogut....i think this is the stud from Utah that can become the future starting center of the Raps...nabbing Bogut and either Warrick or Jack would be my ideal draft...
> 
> i know some will criticize me wanting Bogut, but i think this kid can ball even though hes playing in a weaker conference....he'll show how good he is in March, thatll be his breakout party and i hope we can nab him....
> 
> both him and Warrick are at the top of my wishlist...with Jack/Deron Williams at a close 3rd...


I think it would take a major tanking manouver from Babcock (or an injury to Bosh) to get us a good chance at Bogut. He seems like the best big man available in this draft. A more likely option, if we do struggle down the backstretch, is Splitter. I think he'd pair well with Bosh and Araujo. And then there's Taft. I don't know if we can pass him up either. You can never have enough big men. 

However, I think it's more than likely that these guys are gone and we'll go smaller and athletic. 

I really do think/hope that we'll grab either Warrick or Green with our first pick. Some don't seem to think that Hakim will be successful at the NBA level but few players have his combination of length, athleticism, and scoring touch and that really says something in today's NBA. Seems like a baller to me- comparable to Jamison. 25 points in a loss today.


----------



## ian

You guys all talk about big men - what happened to Hoffa at the 5 and Bosh at the 4?


----------



## Crossword

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> You guys all talk about big men - what happened to Hoffa at the 5 and Bosh at the 4?


Well Warrick can play both the 3 and the 4, but either way it's more for depth when talking about PF's. Bosh is the future, no doubt about it.

Basically the same deal with centers, except there's a much better chance of a 5 from this draft starting, if he's the right one (Bogut, looking in your direction).

Personally I think we need to get a lotto point guard, and with our other pick get the best available player, who just might be Warrick. Or Carney, or Greene, whatever. We really need depth at every position, maybe except the 4.

Some people say that since it's a deep draft for point guards we should just wait for the 2nd round to pick one up. I disagree. If we get a top prospect at the 1, he can back up Rafer for a couple seasons, and then take over after that as our point guard for years to come. It's incredibly rare to get that out of a second rounder.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Ncca games tonight on raps t.v guys


Kansas and Missiouri
Providence and pitt 
Utah and byu

Back to back starting at 7pm


Don't miss the chance to watch Bogut and Taft, i know alot of you guys are high on him as am I, he is an absolute stud, saw him over the weekend, he is downright nasty 

Taft has been dissapointing, the chris wilcox comparison is almost bang on, he is a clone i tell you, i clone:laugh: 

Other prospects as you know
the dissapointing, giddens, gomes, simien and various second rounders i'm too lazy to mention


----------



## RapsFan

I watched the Purdue-Michigan game on CBS on Jan. 30th and Purdue's Carl Landry stood out to me. 

He was able to rebound well, play pretty good defense and score efficiently around the basket in the post, getting 'and ones' quite a few times. Anyways he is a Junior JUCO transfer and is someone maybe to watch for the future. He looks like a good player to me.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Yes landry has good potential, he is very raw for now and he is supposedly undersized, and too slow for the pro pf, but i like his game as well


----------



## rapsfan4life

Just thought i'd mention that nbadraft.net has its new mock this week, we are at 7 and 12 picking nemanja and felton but look too much into that.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Sort of off-topic. But talking prospects, I just hung up some Cuse memorabilia I have, and I kept some game stubs from their 2003 seaspn.

Anyway, I just saw my stub from a game on December 21, 2002. Georgia Tech vs Syracuse. Here's the boxscore. Syracuse was up 58-25 at the half, and won 92-65.

http://ccc.rivals.com/bboxscore.asp?Game=1170

Anyway 4 great prospects played that day:
Carmelo
Hakim
Bosh
Jack

I remember my impressions of Bosh that day were not too favourable. He was ranked in the top 10 by NBADraft.net and I must say I was rather disappointed. Bosh did have a ridiculous dunk or it might have been a miss (but it was still impressive0

At the time, Jack was just another good freshmen (he as about #50 in the prospect rankings that year). No reason to beleive he would become a top 15 pick. And he was pretty much invisible out there that day (as were most of the Tech players)

Hakim was starting his run to becoming a good prospect. I was hyping him up on the old fanhome, as a sleeper who would have lottery potential. At this time, early in his sophomre season, he was still an unknown to college fans and draft fnas. Hakim was not a top 100 recruit (he was picked up by CUse after Syracuse had been spurned by Julius Hode and one of the 5 scholarships opened up). He had a 7-4 freshmen season, but with alot of great dunks. Sure enough by about February 2003, someone at NBADraft.net must have listened, because all of a sudden he popped up as a top 5 prospect in their 2004 Mocks.

And Carmelo. This was the first game I saw him live and he truly did not disappoint.


----------



## rapsfan4life

intersting story, amazing how things change as time passes, amzing how that bosh kid you were watching would become the 4th pick by the raps


----------



## speedythief

I notice that Bosh had 13 FTA's in that game. Some things change, some things stay the same.

Did anyone know that Bosh is close to eclipsing his FTA total from last year, and we're only 45 games into the season? Same goes for his assist totals.


----------



## pspot

Why is Luther Head so underrated, i saw the highlights from the Ill vs Mich St game last night and he took the game over and won it for Ill, he didnt look like a mid 2nd round player to me, and the other thing, he didnt look 6'3"

anyone know much about him, and why this is?


----------



## pspot

should the Raps take Jawad Williams with their second pick? depending on where that Philly pick lands, taking J Williams at around the 16th pick my not be a bad move, hes a guy that can step in right away, contribute in all aspects of the game, hes a good leader, and wont challenge Bosh or our other first pick to be the star of the team


----------



## Pan Mengtu

If Warrick is still on the board, take him. It's not going to a problem with Bosh because Warrick is a natural 3 anyways. He's like Lamar Odom.

If not, I'd take Rudy Fernández. 20 year old Ginobili like player who loves the game. Can't go wrong there.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Warrick's game has little comparison to odom, have you seen him play? he is a 4 in a 3's body


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> Warrick's game has little comparison to odom, have you seen him play? he is a 4 in a 3's body


Odom is like that too, though. He's played a lot of PF this year, as has Warrick.

Warrick certainly isn't the passer or playmaker that Odom is, or Darius Miles is, but I think he can be a decent player in the League.

Warrick could potentially develop along similar lines to Shawn Marion, which is promising.


----------



## Pan Mengtu

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> Warrick's game has little comparison to odom, have you seen him play? he is a 4 in a 3's body


If you mean he doesn't play like a lot of the 3s in the NBA who play exactly like a 2 would (Pierce, Rose), then yeah he wouldn't fit that mold. He plays a lot in the 15ft range facing the basket though. He has some range but also some ability to play inside. I don't think he uses a back to the basket post game much (at least not when i've seen him, but i could be wrong here). So I think he's very comparable to an Odom.

Whether or not it would work with Bosh I don't know, but I definitely think he can play the 3 in the NBA.


----------



## Yao Mania

I always thought Desmond Mason (Sonics version) would be a more fair comparison to Warrick, am I wrong?


----------



## rapsfan4life

My ideal comparison to warrick is stro swift, desmond? no!
Odom? no, odom is that point forward type of player, warrick is the energetic athletic freak type like swift, darius miles etc. 

I have seen this guy play at least 10 games a year since his freshmen year so i feel i know quite a bit about the kid's game, he will be a solid bench player but until he gets any kind of jump shot or drastically improves his ft shooting than he will not be a starter, but i love the guy's passion for the game something that miles and swift have constantly been criticized for not displaying


----------



## butr

Shelden v. Georgia tech. 15/12 with 6 blks. 2 consecutively on 7-1 Luke Schenscher.

Lets leave him on the board.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Shelden is a beast but you know he doesn't get his head 4 inches over the rim and dunk it and he is slightly undersized and has basketball fundamentals, no room for that in the first round of the nba draft :uhoh: :sour: :upset:


----------



## spuriousjones

any thoughts on Julius Hodge?

draft reports read nicely...versatile player. a senior. (one year older than bosh) can help us at pg, sg, and small forward.

http://draftcity.com/viewprofile.php?p=8


----------



## speedythief

I'm starting to wonder if drafting one wing and one big man this year would work.

We still have time to pick a point guard next year. We will have Alvin back, and depending on Milt's status we could be alright at the point.

I'm starting to think getting someone like Petro or Splitter would be more help. We're still thin up front.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> I'm starting to wonder if drafting one wing and one big man this year would work.
> 
> We still have time to pick a point guard next year. We will have Alvin back, and depending on Milt's status we could be alright at the point.
> 
> I'm starting to think getting someone like Petro or Splitter would be more help. We're still thin up front.


I've been thinking the same thing. As nice as a point guard would be, we already have two signed for next year and we're in need of size off the bench. Having 3 good big men is the mark of strong team. We're not desperate for a point guard like we have been in recent years. AW will be an upgrade over Milt. 

However, we may not pick high enough for Splitter and Petro is looking like quite the gamble from my uninformend perspective. Kosta Perovic could come out this year but I'd rather a PF/C that can play next to Bosh and Aruajo and run the floor. It's not like we're going to find a good big man in free agency so drafting one might be the way to go. On the flip side, maybe Araujo will be ready for 30 mpg next season.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

I think Bosh can play the 3 in certain instances if we drafted a four.

Given the beating he is willing to take, by drawing a fouls, a rest from down low for 10 minutes a night might not hurt.


----------



## butr

11 on 3/6 FGA and 5/ 6 FTA with only 9 rebs. However, there were 5 blocks and 5 steals. This was more of a perimeter game.


----------



## butr

Who am I.... guess by my stats from my last year in college.

GMS MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
36	32.4	17.6	11.5	1.0	2.3	1/2.3	1.0	4.1	2.4	.599	.518	.000	1.46

Shelden this year as a Junior.

GMS MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
20	34.1	16.0	11.7	0.9	2.5	1/2.9	1.5	3.8	2.7	.596	.697	.000	1.61


----------



## SkywalkerAC

boozer. but i'm still not sold on Shelden. if we can't get a true(r) big man, I think we beef up the perimeter.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> boozer. but i'm still not sold on Shelden. if we can't get a true(r) big man, I think we beef up the perimeter.


Nope guess again. BTW, people weren't sold on Boozer OR Ben and Shelden is an inch taller than Booz and the same as the latter.

Would you prefer Jim Mclvaine or Charles Barkley. I'll go with whoever gets the job done.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> but i'm still not sold on Shelden.


23 16 3. Those 16 are not easy drop in your lap, they come with a combo of good position, effort and determination.

Shelden fouled out but so did 3 other Blue Devils. Happy whistles tonight v Duke.

____________

As for the who am I, another clue would be that the mystery player is more recent college player than Boozer. (Oh, I'm not a Dukie)


----------



## rapsfan4life

Tough loss for duke tonight, maryland got pretty lucky with some calls out there.


Anybody like Gilchrist i know he is not as hyped as the other pg and personally i dont like him that much i dont see the big deal with him, anybody seen him play more often i only seen a few of his games and cant get a good read for what he brings
Thanks


----------



## speedythief

I hate Duke, so I don't watch their games and as a result I've hardly seen any of the Landlord this year.

Is he more like Boozer or Brand? Will he be able to play centre in the big league at 6'9"?


----------



## SkywalkerAC

32 and 12 for Warrick today.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Who am I.... guess by my stats from my last year in college.
> 
> GMS MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
> 36	32.4	17.6	11.5	1.0	2.3	1/2.3	1.0	4.1	2.4	.599	.518	.000	1.46


That would be Okafor?


----------



## ballocks

that was a fun game. the maryland crowd reacted like they toppled a 50-point favourite at the end there, but to each his own. :rofl:

i see shelden's stock going through the roof over the coming weeks. i don't know why he's rated so low on the internet mocks, but this guy looks like a real player. i could certainly see the raptors using his brand of toughness on the glass. the fact that he always looks ready to come down with the ball is fantastic. we need more of that around here.

gilchrist also impressed me tonight. i understand there are probably some fans who wonder how he'll take his schoolyard mentality to the pros, and they might have reason to wonder, but he just makes me laugh. i think he'll be a fun pro to have around, and tonight's game had him effective (imo) even when he wasn't putting points on the board in the second half. his focus is always on the game. sure, he overreacts at times, and pressure certainly gets to him (witness the missed FTA's near the end) but i think those are small flaws in an otherwise strong game.

for example, his court vision is excellent. i caught three plays in the final 30 minutes where he didn't even have the ball but should have arguably been credited with assists anyway for pointing out open terrapins for his ballhandling teammates. he may not be j-kidd but he sees the floor better than most let on, imo, and i think he'll be a fine pro.

that said, he probably needs to calm down a little bit- although that in itself may be dangerous since many of his assets are indeed rooted in his heavy emotion. unless he becomes a respected leader at the nba level, and a franchise cornerstone at that, his routine might become tiresome after awhile. he's clearly still a kid but if he can mature in the "right" ways, i see him being a good player with time. isiah thomas? not quite, but along those lines.

given the lengthy list of quality PG's in the upcoming draft pool, i think there may be a light at the end of this tunnel. it's not like last year where you had harris and gordon in tier one, and everyone else in tier two (livingston not included). i'd be perfectly satisfied with either jack, paul or gilchrist- and i'm hoping felton, deron, miles and ewing keep their stocks high so they're picked by teams ahead of us, leaving at least one of the abovementioned three available.

who knows, it's still months away, but there appear to be increasingly more difference makers in this pool. i like shelden now, i think butr was right about him all along, but i don't think he'll be available with our selection- provided he declares this year at all.

he'd be a gem, though.

peace


----------



## JuniorNoboa

I've always thought Williams was a bit underrated, but he's not Okafor good.

Williams is more robotic - also his rebound numbers are inflated because he has no competition for rebounds on Duke.

Anyway, I don't know why everyone is saying that Reddick is Duke's best player. It is Williams.

Williams is one of my top four candidates for POY - Warrick. Paul, Williams, Bogut (as I identified about three weeks ago on the College Board). But I don't think America wants to give Williams credit - instead they focus on Puffy Reddick.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> That would be Okafor?


Ding ding ding... we have a winner. I am not saying he is Okafor, but for guys with fairly similar stats, one got all the pub and went #2 while the other gets no pub and might have to come back for his senior year. 

IMO anyone who says they are not sold on him has not seen him play enough.

As for Duke's best players, I would put Ewing ahead of Reddick myself.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> 
> 
> who knows, it's still months away, but there appear to be increasingly more difference makers in this pool. i like shelden now, i think butr was right about him all along, *but i don't think he'll be available with our selection*- provided he declares this year at all.
> 
> he'd be a gem, though.
> 
> peace


Blasphemy!


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> I hate Duke, so I don't watch their games and as a result I've hardly seen any of the Landlord this year.
> 
> Is he more like Boozer or Brand? Will he be able to play centre in the big league at 6'9"?


Boozer except he blocks nearly 4 per. Better shooting touch too IMO.

As for Centre. He's got the post game. Length if not height and has strength. He just has a phenomenal ability to rebound. He's like a vacuum. Great hands. IMO he would start at 5 for the Raps if drafted with Hoffa off the bench. I see a double-double his rookie year with decent PT. He can truly play either 4/5 IMO.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Think his reach compares to Elton Brand's? Better D than Boozer? What sets him apart from a player like Sean May?


----------



## butr

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/139052
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/307818

Here you go Sky. Shelden has twice the blocks of Elton in his last year. 

As for Boozer's D. He is good positionally but blocked less than 1 per game in college and continues that today. Rebounds 9 for his career as he did with Duke in his last year.

Brand continued his 2.2 block avg into the pros. Rebounds also continued in the 10 area.

So for a guy who blocks and rebounds more than both of these great Duke alums, you are not sold and rather than expect trends to continue, you expect what? his numbers to be halved in the pros?

Where do you get that logic?

As for Sean May. He's a nice player. But to me, has to shed some baby fat and has seen his blocks numbers consistently lower from year to year. He is not an eraser.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

A few factors to consider, when comparing Brand to Williams.

I think Brand played with a few better rebounders then Williams. He had to share a bit more and was not always the man under the basket. Randolph is crap.

In terms of blocked shots, I compare Williams very much to Etan Thomas when he was at Syracuse. Not unusually long-arms and not great jumpers, and guys that are only 6-9. But yet they just had a knack for shot-blocking.

Etan Thomas after averaging about 4 blocks per game at Syracuse, saw his blocks drop to about 2 per 35 minutes of NBA time.


I like Williams as a prospect. people are underrating him. But his block numbers will be cut alot.


----------



## rapsfan4life

I love shelden, he is a true beast BUT not enough to grab him with one of our picks, perhaps if he rediculously carries duke completely on his back in the tourney although he very often carries him on their back defensively. I dont know i guess there is just that IT that is missing for him that cause people to underrate him. :whoknows:


----------



## pspot

Just watched the Pitt Orange game, and honestly i dont think much of Taft, this is the 3rd time ive seen him play and he hasnt shown me anything, i really think this guy is going to be a career potential guy, someone like Mosio, i really hope the Raps stay away from him

Hakim looked good, at least he stays in the game and is giving it, i would take him over Taft for sure.

not sure about McNamara for March


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I'm starting to think I'd want Hakim Warrick on this team. We could pick him up with a later pick, and develop him as a 3/4 off the bench at first. Then he could become our future 3. What people really don't know is that Warrick does have a midrange game, he just rarely has to use it because of his dominance outside. I think the Shawn Marion comparison is a real good one if he could develop his outside game.

This draft is looking good for swingmen. Marvin Williams, Rudy Gay, Rodney Carney, Gerald Green, and Hakim Warrick all have unbelieveable potential.


----------



## ansoncarter

^I want him too. Just for the viscious jams. Even watching him leap for a rebound is entertaining

No idea if he'll be any good. Pretty suprised by his lack of lateral quicks. Kinda like Vince that way. Sick athlete, but not laterally. Maybe those people are right who always question his man-man defence

I don't care though. Guy that athletic, they could find some way to fit him in. He'll be top10 league wide for entertainment.


----------



## pspot

I thought we just got out that headache ^


----------



## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> I love shelden, he is a true beast BUT not enough to grab him with one of our picks, perhaps if he rediculously carries duke completely on his back in the tourney although he very often carries him on their back defensively. I dont know i guess there is just that IT that is missing for him that cause people to underrate him. :whoknows:


Fluidity?


----------



## rapsfan4life

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> Fluidity?



my bad lol, i was tired

basically i said i love the guy but i need a big performance from him to convince me to take him with one of our picks


----------



## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> my bad lol, i was tired
> 
> basically i said i love the guy but i need a big performance from him to convince me to take him with one of our picks


No, that's what you're not seeing in him. He reminds me of a shorter Okafor. He's just not a smooth player. That doesn't mean he won't be effective but he doesn't exactly have agility in the post that Warrick does. I don't really want to get a role-playing power forward in this draft though, they're very obtainable with the MLE.


----------



## rapsfan4life

NBA DRAFT PROSPECT UPDATES from draftcity (post #1) 


http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=100


check it out, CARNEY and Warrick


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> I thought we just got out that headache ^


Me too.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

damn warrick can get up.


----------



## ansoncarter

^and that was on the way down

Warrick is a lunatic. He just needs a purple headband


----------



## rapsfan4life

> Originally posted by <b>ansoncarter</b>!
> ^and that was on the way down
> 
> Warrick is a lunatic. He just needs a purple headband


and a purple jersey than you can re insert him back into the air with the raptors written across his chest :yes:


----------



## butr

Oh brother. There is more to basketball than jumping. I'm not saying we should not marvel that skill. But were do you put him?

Until any one of you can give me a reason he can play the 3 or 4 in the L, I can't take you seriously.

Hops is not a good enough reason. Let him win the Dunk contest with someone else.


----------



## ansoncarter

we should draft him so he can dunk on Sheldon Williams


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>ansoncarter</b>!
> we should draft him so he can dunk on Sheldon Williams


Good luck. The landlord just blocked his *** starting a fast break down the floor.

:grinning:


----------



## The Mad Viking

Can we trade Araujo for the 8th pick in THIS year's draft?

:verysad:


----------



## CrookedJ

Hey hey!!!!!!!!!

Just funished watching the Maryland Virgina game pretty sweet game Maryland took it 92-89 in double overtime. Nik Canner Medley had 19 pts and 11 rbs /5 asst and John Gilchrist had 22 pts 9 rebs 5 assts.

Virginia has a freshman PG Sean Singletary that came of the bench for 23 points 9 assts and was damn near unstopale until he fouled out with 2minutes to go in the second OT. Very fast with Iverson-like moves, he can really score but I don't recall whether he hit his jumpers. A quick look at his season stats his 3rd 20 pt gam this season, several 2 for 9 3for 9 4 for 12 type games in between. But wow he was really good, and got into the paint at will against Maryland.

A quick check of his shot chart on CBS . . .
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/gamecenter/shotchart/[email protected]

SO yes I guess i'm too baked to recall all the jumpers he hit - i just recalled several great pullups over big men after crossing his guy over big time.


Medley Was also very good I'd call him kind of like austin crosher but kind of like tayshaun prince. Hes got a good feel for the game, sets his man up very will with cuts and has a great baseline move, made some nice passes. Shoots the three too, although he didn't shoot well outside today his points were all mid range and in and he went 4-7 from the line.

Anyway back and forth high scoring in the second half after a very cautious first. I missed the end of reg I thought marlyand had it , so I stepped outside to smoke myself a j, and came back in as OT was starting. They fought back at the end of the first OT as well. Elton Brown for Vir. had a decent game away from the foul line where he missed several with the game on the line going a pathetic 2 for 12 in a 3 pt overtiem loss. Kind of hard to ignore that.

Crooked Jay


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Medley's Trash


----------



## zagsfan20

> Medley's Trash


Support your reasoning....

He impresses me, he has a similar game to Raef Lafrentz except for a bit smaller....I think he will be a second round pick and have a decent pro career....


----------



## speedythief

How about Lawrence Roberts in the second round, guys? I thought we might be able to draft him in the second last year but he stayed in school. He's not the biggest PF around but he is a tenacious rebounder.


----------



## drlove_playa

In my opinion, I think we should draft Shelden Willams and Hakim Warrick. We don't really need a PG. But With the depth of this draft, I think we should consider one. Jarret Jack & Felton maybe available with one of our picks. I think felton is going to be a great player. We could maybe trade 2 second rd picks for a late first round pick to try and grab Shelden Williams. But players ranks are going to rise and fall after march madness. Another player we should look at is Wayne Simien. This guy has alot of upside to him aswell.

I pray every night that Babcock will trade alvin willams and not resign milt next year lol. A buyout for alvin might be a possibility, if the price is right.


----------



## ATLien

I think Toronto should draft Marvin Williams, they could use another superstar to pair with Chris Bosh. Maybe you could draft a guy like Luther Head in the 2nd round to play guard.


----------



## Marvin Williams Jr.

No to Chris Taft.

After watching him a couple times this season, he seems to have the tools but very little confidence and isn't that smart. I'd pass up on him with our pick atleast.

My favourites right now are...

Our pick:

Gerald Green
Rudy Gay (top 3)
Tiago Splitter
Andrew Bogut (top 5)
Chris Paul (top 3)
Marvin Williams (top 5)
Josh Boone

Philly pick:

Adam Morrison
Guillermo Diaz
John Gilchrist
Shelden Williams

2nd round:

Denham Brown
Wayne Simien
Ryan Gomes
Luther Head
CJ Miles


----------



## pspot

^ is boone that good?
and no Jack with the Philly pick...even with the whole Bosh best friend deal there

i would love to get Head with our 2nd rounder


----------



## Marvin Williams Jr.

pspot said:


> ^ is boone that good?
> and no Jack with the Philly pick...even with the whole Bosh best friend deal there
> 
> i would love to get Head with our 2nd rounder


I've seen Boone maybe 5 times this season and he's a solid player.

Potentially star in the NBA... ? I don't know, but he's a big man that can score and block everything. Mobile as well.


----------



## drlove_playa

No way Simien goes in the 2nd round. I also see no way that Head goes in the 2nd round. Wait until after march madness to go guessing picks. A good tournament or a bad tournament for a player will utilmately decided their draft value.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

drlove_playa said:


> No way Simien goes in the 2nd round. I also see no way that Head goes in the 2nd round. Wait until after march madness to go guessing picks. A good tournament or a bad tournament for a player will utilmately decided their draft value.


I will say this again so that people will learn. The tournament dictates very little in your draft position. Much more important are the 30 regular season games, the pre-draft camps and the workouts. Scouts place much more importance on this then a few tournament games.

There are exceptions to the rule - i.e guys take a big rise in the tournament but those are guys that are not starts during the regular season. But don't expect a guy like Warrick or Williams to take a big jump or fall no matter how there team does.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Marvin Williams Jr. said:


> No to Chris Taft.
> 
> After watching him a couple times this season, he seems to have the tools but very little confidence and isn't that smart. I'd pass up on him with our pick atleast.
> 
> My favourites right now are...
> 
> Our pick:
> 
> Gerald Green
> Rudy Gay (top 3)
> Tiago Splitter
> Andrew Bogut (top 5)
> Chris Paul (top 3)
> Marvin Williams (top 5)
> Josh Boone
> 
> Philly pick:
> 
> Adam Morrison
> Guillermo Diaz
> John Gilchrist
> Shelden Williams
> 
> 2nd round:
> 
> Denham Brown
> Wayne Simien
> Ryan Gomes
> Luther Head
> CJ Miles



Denham Brown should not be coming out. Let's hope he has got an education while he has *****ed and moaned at UConn about not being able to be the man. 

And CJ Miles - who say he's leaving Kansas


----------



## ansoncarter

I hope we draft Guillermo Diaz. (50! inch vertical)


----------



## JuniorNoboa

ansoncarter said:


> I hope we draft Guillermo Diaz. (50! inch vertical)


A super athletic tweener. Not too high on 6-2 guards, that I am not sold on there scoring abilities.


----------



## ansoncarter

yeah, he sounds like he plays basketball because volleyball won't pay the bills

but with a second rounder I could care less who we take. Maybe we can take Henry Boekkering with the other one we have


----------



## JuniorNoboa

ansoncarter said:


> yeah, he sounds like he plays basketball because volleyball won't pay the bills
> 
> but with a second rounder I could care less who we take. Maybe we can take Henry Boekkering with the other one we have


Well Diaz is no Bekkering (I am not totally down on the kid, but I am not sure if he is a top 15 pick) - does have 18PPG as a soph and 37% from three. I am not convinced that he can be an effective two but he could be a "player" that just finds way to score. 

Bekkering is the seventh best player (in terms of minutes) on the 276th best team in the country. He has no future.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Does anyone have clips of Gerald Green or has anyone seen him play?


----------



## rapsfan4life

JuniorNoboa said:


> Denham Brown should not be coming out. Let's hope he has got an education while he has *****ed and moaned at UConn about not being able to be the man.
> 
> And CJ Miles - who say he's leaving Kansas



Ummm denham is a senior so he has to automatically declare.


----------



## butr

rapsfan4life said:


> Ummm denham is a senior so he has to automatically declare.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=11223

:no:


----------



## The Mad Viking

Denham is not an NBA player.

2nd round PG, Luther Head might just be there, but more likely Travis Diener. (Think Dan Dickau / poor mans Luke Ridnour) Diaz prolly won't declare for 2005.

I think Lawrence Roberts destroyed his knee last weekend. He may not get drafted at all. :no: 

Danny Granger / Nate Robinson are 2 other guys who MIGHT slip to our 2nd round pick. Or could go 20th, hard to say right now...


----------



## rapsfan4life

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=11223
> 
> :no:



Oh WoW my mistake, :sad: 
it seems the guy has been in the ncaa for so long i though he was a senior, so good he has another year to prove himself


----------



## SkywalkerAC

another huge game for Warrick today- 36 points, 8 rebounds.


----------



## rapsfan4life

SkywalkerAC said:


> another huge game for Warrick today- 36 points, 8 rebounds.


Yes warrick has been on a tear, HOWERVER and big HOWEVER, watching the game i can tell u those numbers are rediculously inflated, that providence friars team played NOOOOOOOO defence whatsoever and warrick had like 12 dunks/layups, it looked like a high school big man dunking on little freshmen anytime he wanted.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

SkywalkerAC said:


> another huge game for Warrick today- 36 points, 8 rebounds.


Back to back Big Games against Big East Garbage (Providence and St. John's), after being invisible in crucial games ( scoring 12 each against Pitt and BC).


----------



## SkywalkerAC

With Bosh and Araujo and Bonner and Sow, I like our frontcourt development but adding another level to that in Warrick could be so special. All of these guys can play together in the right system- Warrick, Bosh, and Araujo; Bonner, Warrick, and Sow; Sow, Warrick, Bosh; etc. 

Even if Warrick is nothing more than a finisher above the rim, he would be huge for the Raptors. With the coverage that Bosh will demand everywhere on the court, a screener like Hoffa to slash off of and a team, and a coach that's dedicated to the fast break, Warrick probably fits as well with the Raps as any other team...despite our glut of 3/4s.


----------



## Porn Player

i hope we definatley pik up warrick we need sum highlights in t.dot again! our frontcourt would be very young and have its leader bosh its hardman hoffa and its scorer (imo) warrick! jus think of the alston to warrick oops man haha they gonna be sik!


----------



## The Mad Viking

I like Warrick although he is likely going to be a little bit of a project, I think he will struggle as a PF in the NBA, and he would certainly struggle as a SF.

I also don't think he is a good fit for TO. 

I think Ike Diogu would be a better fit. Or a PG. Or maybe Joey Graham. No centers appear to be availabe, don't want to stretch pick again...


----------



## SkywalkerAC

The Mad Viking said:


> I like Warrick although he is likely going to be a little bit of a project, I think he will struggle as a PF in the NBA, and he would certainly struggle as a SF.
> 
> I also don't think he is a good fit for TO.
> 
> I think Ike Diogu would be a better fit. Or a PG. Or maybe Joey Graham. No centers appear to be availabe, don't want to stretch pick again...


I see no good reason that Warrick wouldn't fit with this team, next to Bosh or coming off the bench. He sure does seem to have an NBA game to me. The closest comparisons I can think of are Antawn Jamison and Shareer Abdur-Rahim. He's a little slimmer than either but he's more athletic than both. All are superb post players with good length (though I think Warrick might have the most) and with limited perimeter experience coming into the league. Antawn and SAR have been effective playing the 3 (and the 4) ever since coming in the league and Warrick should be much the same. 

I want another true frontcourt player to match with Bosh AND Hoffa that can make teams pay for doubling- a guy that can make you pay with the lighting quick score, anywhere in the lane, if his man releases to double. I want someone that can score at will against single coverage. I want rebounding and length at the 3 spot. I want inside scoring. 

I really do think teams would have a lot of trouble matching up against a frontcourt of Warrick, Bosh, and Hoffa. Warrick and Bosh are both quick enough to play off of screens and they're all (going to be) money in the midrange. They can all rebound and run the floor. 

Is defense going to be an issue for Warrick? Yes. But isn't it an issue for most of the young athlete types that we're going to be looking at? They'll all have to learn to play NBA defense. He has the physical ability necessary to be a good man to man defender and he could be a good team defender already. I doubt his defense is much worse than Carmelo's, coming into the league. 

He's got great experience from Syracuse and seems like a good kid. I don't know why he wouldn't fit in well with our team.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Villanueva is another true forward that I think would be effective matched with Bosh and Hoffa (or Bonner and Sow, for that matter). 

Perhaps Diogu would work next to Bosh as well, you never know how Bosh can develop as a "small" forward between this year and next.


----------



## speedythief

Did anyone watch the Boston College/Pitt game today? I wanted to get a look at Taft so I tuned in. Not a great game, but I was impressed with Pitt's frontline of Taft and Troutman, especially the later.

I was also very unimpressed by Kingston, Ontario product Nate Doornekamp. Guy's 7'+ tall and he plays half the game, but manages a single rebound and shoots 2-7.

I don't think I want us to draft Taft. I think we should look for somebody a little further along in their development to compliment our frontline, should we be looking at a big man.

I still like Warrick but I think we need a guy who can score on the wing and a guy who can bruise for rebounds. Warrick doesn't really fit the bill on either of those.

Since our picks are getting closer and closer together it seems like we'll at least get one guy that we want. Maybe a combination of Shelden Williams (or another hard-nosed big) and Joey Graham (shoots .558!) or Antoine Wright (shoots .486!), or something like that.

Graham is starting to become one of my favourite prospects right now. He reminds me of, guess who, Eric Williams. Gets his points the rough way but can step out and shoot. Likes to get his hands dirty, rebounds... though he's a bit older and therefore everyone will see his "ceiling" as being a bit lower than most younger prospects.

I don't think this is the year to pick a point guard and I don't think it's the year to pick a project. I'm not saying we just need seniors but I don't want to limit Chris' development while he waits for the players around him to get better. With Marshall gone it will be tougher for him. Picking players that are good in college is a low-risk, high-reward way of approaching the rebuilding project. We can use our late pick next year (Denver's) to find a "diamond in the rough" type guy.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

man it's nice to have two picks.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

speedythief said:


> I still like Warrick but I think we need a guy who can score on the wing and a guy who can bruise for rebounds. Warrick doesn't really fit the bill on either of those.
> 
> I don't think this is the year to pick a point guard and I don't think it's the year to pick a project. I'm not saying we just need seniors but I don't want to limit Chris' development while he waits for the players around him to get better. With Marshall gone it will be tougher for him. Picking players that are good in college is a low-risk, high-reward way of approaching the rebuilding project. We can use our late pick next year (Denver's) to find a "diamond in the rough" type guy.


Isn't Warrick one of those low-risk, high-reward types that we should start surrounding Bosh with? Why do we need another guy that can score on the wing vs one that can score in the paint? Honestly, can't you just picture Bosh drawing the defense and dropping it off to either Hoffa on one side or Warrick on the other? 

I don't really know why I'm suddenly so infatuated with this Warrick but I really do see him bringing a great mix of skill and potential to the Raptors next season. 

He and Marvin Williams seem to be the power small forwards of this draft and that's the kind of player I would like to see next to Bosh. I'm pretty sure he'll go top 10 after his team workouts.

I'd agree that the second pick should probably be another potential contributor for next year. Any position, best guy available.

I'd love to see our two lines coming out looking like this:

Rafer
Jalen
Warrick
Bosh
Hoffa

AW
Mo Pete
Bonner
Pape
Sheldon Williams


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> Sheldon Williams


  Has the campaign worked?


----------



## butr

rapsfan4life said:


> Yes warrick has been on a tear, HOWERVER and big HOWEVER, watching the game i can tell u those numbers are rediculously inflated, that providence friars team played NOOOOOOOO defence whatsoever and warrick had like 12 dunks/layups, it looked like a high school big man dunking on little freshmen anytime he wanted.


I agree, you have to watch the games to see how well-earned the stats were. I won't take anything away from Hakim b/c I did not see. I will say that I watch a hell of a lot of Duke/ACC. Even when Shelden gets 8/9 rebounds (being low), they are A) crucial ones and B) generally not ones that plop into his lap, he goes and gets them.


----------



## spuriousjones

no-one's talking about Rajon Rondo?


----------



## speedythief

blowuptheraptors said:


> Has the campaign worked?


There are very few NBA-ready big men in the projected lottery this year.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> I agree, you have to watch the games to see how well-earned the stats were. I won't take anything away from Hakim b/c I did not see. I will say that I watch a hell of a lot of Duke/ACC. Even when Shelden gets 8/9 rebounds (being low), they are A) crucial ones and B) generally not ones that plop into his lap, he goes and gets them.


Sure enough, but he has the opportunity to go and get them more then anyone else in the country, as Shavlik Randolph is useless.

I like Williams and think he is a first or second team All-American, but I do think his rebound numbers are a bit inflated by the fact that no one on the team "steals" rebounds from him.


----------



## pspot

what if it came down to Green or Warrick?
we should poll that up

id go with Green, but its a tough choice, deciding between potenial super star or probably a star


----------



## JuniorNoboa

spuriousjones said:


> no-one's talking about Rajon Rondo?


He's a freshman averaging 8pts, 3asts, in 25 minutes per game at UK. Have not heard a thing about him leaving this year - and if he did I doubt he is a top draft prospect.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

pspot said:


> what if it came down to Green or Warrick?
> we should poll that up
> 
> id go with Green, but its a tough choice, deciding between potenial super star or probably a star



Well let's see. On one side, we have Green who could likely be one of the overly common overhyped highschoolers of NBADraft.net that end up going nowhere near where they predicted. People have to realize that these guys are not scouts, they simply accumulate heresay from a few connections they have. The legitimancy of this heresay often falls apart as the draft approaches. One month to the draft, the information they accumulate becomes more reliable.

Warrick is a known quantity at this point. 

This question has more validity as we get closer to draft day, because there are deceent chances Green takes a mighty fall. Only then will a site like NBADraft.net get an accurate gauge of how much he is valued.


----------



## rapsfan4life

blowuptheraptors said:


> Has the campaign worked?



YES!!!! my friend you have convinced me, my only doubt was if he could play center next to bosh and i am convinced he can, if he comes out and he is there by our philly pick than Dont give it a second thought and take him babcock.

BOSH AND SHELDEN???? :jump: 
Can u say BLOCK PARTY!!!! :biggrin:


----------



## rapsfan4life

*NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

http://nbadraft.net/stockwatch004.asp


good read as always for u guys interested in keeping up with prospects, warrick seems to be getting props


----------



## rapsfan4life

NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!! 

http://nbadraft.net/stockwatch004.asp

good read as always for u guys interested in keeping up with prospects, warrick seems to be getting props


----------



## JuniorNoboa

rapsfan4life said:


> NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!
> 
> http://nbadraft.net/stockwatch004.asp
> 
> good read as always for u guys interested in keeping up with prospects, warrick seems to be getting props


Arian Smith just does not get it with Warrick's defence. He made the same mistake last time and needs to get his head out of his ..... Wake up - SU plays the 2-3 zone. 

Actually he has great lateral quickness - ask Michael Lee!! If he ever critically watched SU games he would realize that SU has been MUCH, MUCH less vulnerable to threes out of the corners in the past couple of years (which is part of Warrick's responsibility). Much of that has to be attributed to Warrick's length and has to demonstarte quickness. Oh wait, this smackass says that he can't guard small forwards.... whatever.

It's funny how he says "casual" fans, when he cannot simply acknowledge the fact that SU plays a 2-3 zone and the impact it has on evaluating defenders.

I'm not going to pretend that I know the other players other then Warrick better then he does - I am sure he has seen them more then I have .

But I have seen Warrick alot - and for him to be so far off base in his evaluation of his defence, makes me take his whole analysis with a big grain of salt.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

Warrick is getting better, if te orangemen and hakim do welll in 2 weaks he could go up to a top 10 pick.


----------



## CrookedJ

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

Antoine Wright is very interesting to me, I was reading about him on Draft City this morning as well . . . .http://www.draftcity.com/headlines.php#431

An athletic good shooting swing man. Draft city has him goin at # 12 to Denver.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*



Junkyard Dog13 said:


> Warrick is getting better, if te orangemen and hakim do welll in 2 weaks he could go up to a top 10 pick.


First off Warrick is not getting better - he put of 35.5 against the Big East pansies in St. John's and Providence. This is coming off two awful games against good teams. He is what he is - that has not changed this year. 



I would think after about 80 games being on "lotto watch" by the scouts, the opinions on him are pretty much already made. I doubt a good or poor performance in a couple of games in the tournament is going to change their opinions on him, especially when it is impossible to see all the games live in the tournament. Scouts cannot be at four places at once.


----------



## CrookedJ

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

Re:Warrick, where does he fit in - can he play the three? I really enjoy watching him play (read: dunking over people) but I'm not convinced he's the kind of player we need. In all honsesty he sounds like Darius Miles only a little bigger (with rebounding), and without the ability to guard smaller players. If I thought he could guard smaller players then his explosiveness would overcome his lack of an offensive NBA small forward game, and I'd change my mind.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*



CrookedJ said:


> Re:Warrick, where does he fit in - can he play the three? I really enjoy watching him play (read: dunking over people) but I'm not convinced he's the kind of player we need. In all honsesty he sounds like Darius Miles only a little bigger (with rebounding), and without the ability to guard smaller players. If I thought he could guard smaller players then his explosiveness would overcome his lack of an offensive NBA small forward game, and I'd change my mind.



I think he'll be able to display enough lateral quicks (in the combine and workouts) to display he has the potential to be a fine small forward defender, maybe even a good one. At this point it seems quite hard to say, though I'm partial to think that if SAR and Jamison can handle the 3, Warrick should be fine.

They mention that he would be well off on a running team and that's exactly what the Raps are aspiring to. We need a finisher at the 3 as Jalen doesn't really fill that role at the 2 (same goes for Mo).


----------



## MentalPowerHouse

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

I don't think he will have any problem guarding SFs in the NBA. Alot of college teams play with 3 guards due to lack of size, there really isn't alot of NBA type SFs in college they mostly use SGs as SFs. 

Offensively he might struggle at first, he doesn't have a great long distance shot. 

I see him being the Rip Hamilton of Small Forwards. Yes he will be different than the typical SF but that doesn't mean he can't be good.


----------



## butr

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*



MentalPowerHouse said:


> I don't think he will have any problem guarding SFs in the NBA. Alot of college teams play with 3 guards due to lack of size, there really isn't alot of NBA type SFs in college they mostly use SGs as SFs.
> 
> Offensively he might struggle at first, he doesn't have a great long distance shot.
> 
> I see him being the Rip Hamilton of Small Forwards. Yes he will be different than the typical SF but that doesn't mean he can't be good.


SF's generally need some perimeter game in the A.


----------



## rapsfan4life

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*



CrookedJ said:


> Re:Warrick, where does he fit in - can he play the three? I really enjoy watching him play (read: dunking over people) but I'm not convinced he's the kind of player we need. In all honsesty he sounds like Darius Miles only a little bigger (with rebounding), and without the ability to guard smaller players. If I thought he could guard smaller players then his explosiveness would overcome his lack of an offensive NBA small forward game, and I'd change my mind.



Also he isn't crazy like darius, by all accounts he is a good kid


----------



## pspot

I understand what your saying, but they said the same thing between Okafer and Howard last year, now Green is no Howard but Hakim is no Ok


----------



## JuniorNoboa

pspot said:


> I understand what your saying, but they said the same thing between Okafer and Howard last year, now Green is no Howard but Hakim is no Ok


It's not that I am opposed to drafting High Schoolers. My point was let's wait two months to see where Green is ranked, a point when draft sites start getting more reliable and strong info to back their rankings. If Green is still around #10 at that time, then it is a worthy discussion.


----------



## MentalPowerHouse

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*



blowuptheraptors said:


> SF's generally need some perimeter game in the A.


Yes and you'd also say generally a SG needs to be able to shoot 3s? All I am saying he doesn't have to develop a 3 to be productive if he can develop a good midrange game, he already has a good post up game.


----------



## The Mad Viking

JuniorNoboa said:


> Green who could likely be one of the overly common overhyped highschoolers of NBADraft.net that end up going nowhere near where they predicted. People have to realize that these guys are not scouts, they simply accumulate heresay from a few connections they have.


By "overhyped highschoolers" I presume you are referring to Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, J.R. Smith, and Sebastian Telfair...


----------



## SkywalkerAC

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

and he would be matched with sharpshooting power forwards in Bosh and Bonner so I think that compensates for his lack of outside shooting quite nicely.


----------



## rapsfan4life

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

Think of corliss williamson, the guy scores at will playing the 3 and cant shoot a 3pointer to save his life


----------



## ansoncarter

we need Hakim Warrick

anyone who posted between this post, and my last one doesnt' know what they are talking about and is wasting bandwidth

(I study NCAA basketball for a living, and have watched Warrick for years and I talk to scouts and they all say the same thing. Warrick will dunk on your head)


----------



## butr

:raised_ey :laugh:


----------



## ansoncarter

^just ignore that post and read the one above it

thanks (I am a scout btw. If you want to get scouted, and make dollars, listen to me)


----------



## JuniorNoboa

The Mad Viking said:


> By "overhyped highschoolers" I presume you are referring to Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, J.R. Smith, and Sebastian Telfair...


You forgot Dwight Howard

I think you misinterpreted my post. I have no problem with drafting high schoolers.

NBA Draft.net had those guys correctly pegged by about May or June of last year. But before then they can be way off. I certainly respect there information by that time of the year. But before that time of the year, high schoolers can swing up and down wildly. All I am saying is that we are most likely relying on a draft site for info on these kids, and then choosing them based on needs or potential type of player. Let's see where Green is ranked in two months time. If he is ranked 25th instead of 8th, do you think we should have the Warrick / Green discussion.

For example, Josh Smith was top 5 for much of the year. J.R Smith was nowhere to be found for most of the year (I think ....)

Consider other like James White or Ivan Chernieav. It's still too early to get any reliable info on where a high schooler might go - NBA draft.net might have the best info available, but that info is very much incomplete at this time. By May or June, that info will come to them after there contacts start to make conclusions of their own.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

ansoncarter said:


> we need Hakim Warrick
> 
> anyone who posted between this post, and my last one doesnt' know what they are talking about and is wasting bandwidth
> 
> (I study NCAA basketball for a living, and have watched Warrick for years and I talk to scouts and they all say the same thing. Warrick will dunk on your head)




Thanks for the laugh bud.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

JuniorNoboa said:


> You forgot Dwight Howard
> 
> I think you misinterpreted my post. I have no problem with drafting high schoolers.
> 
> NBA Draft.net had those guys correctly pegged by about May or June of last year. But before then they can be way off. I certainly respect there information by that time of the year. But before that time of the year, high schoolers can swing up and down wildly. All I am saying is that we are most likely relying on a draft site for info on these kids, and then choosing them based on needs or potential type of player. Let's see where Green is ranked in two months time. If he is ranked 25th instead of 8th, do you think we should have the Warrick / Green discussion.
> 
> For example, Josh Smith was top 5 for much of the year. J.R Smith was nowhere to be found for most of the year (I think ....)
> 
> Consider other like James White or Ivan Chernieav. It's still too early to get any reliable info on where a high schooler might go - NBA draft.net might have the best info available, but that info is very much incomplete at this time. By May or June, that info will come to them after there contacts start to make conclusions of their own.


we have heard "reports" that Boston and Toronto, two teams picking in the 10-18 range, have been heavily scouting him and I wouldn't doubt that he's been impressive. it's hard for the lay man to judge highschoolers that he hasn't seen play but some guys are simply standouts. guys like james white and ivan don't come out because they've heard scouts deem that they aren't (nearly) ready. i don't know **** but i'm guessing that Green comes out.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

Warrick perhaps a more dynamic version of JYD but still lacks the 3 prt shooting range, and that is what we need a SF that can hit the 3.

the PG's are great 3 pt shooters I believe Deron Willisms, Chris Paul.

I dont know if we will take Gerald Green (ton of potential) if not than with the 

lotto pick PG Deron Williams

Philly pick SF Joey Graham

2nd rnds trade up SG Salim Stodamire


----------



## JuniorNoboa

SkywalkerAC said:


> we have heard "reports" that Boston and Toronto, two teams picking in the 10-18 range, have been heavily scouting him and I wouldn't doubt that he's been impressive. it's hard for the lay man to judge highschoolers that he hasn't seen play but some guys are simply standouts. guys like james white and ivan don't come out because they've heard scouts deem that they aren't (nearly) ready. i don't know **** but i'm guessing that Green comes out.


Right - the fact that he has been heavily scouted is the information that is driving his top 10 ranking. And no doubt he is a good prospect. But when the "conlusions" from contacts start coming out in a few months is when we will see if scouts are really impressed or merely impressed, i.e is he a 10 or is he a 20-30 player (which is the point of heavily scouting a guy)

Anyway, seems like nobody agrees with me, so I will give up on this argument. Ask me Green vs Warrick, now, and my answer is "no reply"

Perhaps we should ask Anson Carter. Or maybe his expertise is only limited to NCAA Basketball :rolleyes


----------



## djmyte

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*

I see Warrick as a guy that puts up good numbers in college but will be above average(at best) in the NBA. He's just too one dimensional. You have to like the fact that he has a good post game and that he can rebound but after that what would he give you? He reportedly has poor lateral quickness which means he won't be able to guard 3's at the next level. He's also way to small to guard most 4's. So defensively, he already projects to be a liability. Offensively, he can't break defenders down, unless it's in the post, where he'll find it alot more difficult to score playing against bigger, stronger players. I'd mention his jump shot but apparently he doesnt have one so... in the end, too many weaknesses for my taste. 

We need perimeter players that can penetrate, create(for themselves and others) and play at least decent defense. The last thing we need are more players with the deficiencies alot of our current players already possess.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

*Re: NBADRAFTNET's STOCK WATCH!!*



djmyte said:


> I see Warrick as a guy that puts up good numbers in college but will be above average(at best) in the NBA. He's just too one dimensional. You have to like the fact that he has a good post game and that he can rebound but after that what would he give you? He reportedly has poor lateral quickness which means he won't be able to guard 3's at the next level. He's also way to small to guard most 4's. So defensively, he already projects to be a liability. Offensively, he can't break defenders down, unless it's in the post, where he'll find it alot more difficult to score playing against bigger, stronger players. I'd mention his jump shot but apparently he doesnt have one so... in the end, too many weaknesses for my taste.
> 
> We need perimeter players that can penetrate, create(for themselves and others) and play at least decent defense. The last thing we need are more players with the deficiencies alot of our current players already possess.



Agree entirely with your post with respect to offence. I am still not convinced that he cannot defend 3's. Based on his quickness he has shown in cutting off 3's in the corners out of the 2-3, I am not convinced that he has a lack of lateral quickness. I see him as being a capable defender at the 3.

As for his rebounding skills - I am not convinced that they are anything beyond average. The Big Stiff, Craig Forth, mans the middle for SU and does not get many rebound, and this creates a lot of rebounding opportunities for Warrick and Pace. Remember that Carmelo Anthony got 10 rebounds a game in this system which is unheard of for a small forward.


----------



## Lope31

rapsfan4life said:


> Juan Mendez: 20 and 11


Yes, but he is Canadian, so I doubt we would take him. I think the only way we could have a Canadian on the Raptors is if we brought in two at once. That way the pressure of being the Canadian player on the Canadian team is less harsh...

I combined this with another prospect watch thread because they seemed pretty similar to me.


----------



## pspot

^ okay....draft Mendez and trade for Magloire...that works for me


----------



## rapsfan4life

JARRET JACK VS. GUILMERO DIAZ by draftcity, enjoy!


http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=109

I am starting to love Diaz, apparently pat reily thinks he is by far the best prospect in the draft ahead of paul but he has played the game seriously for over 2 years. He is supposedly a mix between Ben Gordon and Dwayne Wade 

Jack is a perfect floor general and everything a solid ball player should be but his ceiling is not that high. 

I reccomend this article to everyone and feel free to look at the lates mock
http://draftcity.com/mock.php?y=2005


----------



## butr

Mays and Shelden had crazy games Sunday. Mays got something like 22 rebs. Shelden officially blocked 6 but actually had closer to 10. Both teams deserved to win. Refs sucked ***, yet again.

Good job Ohio State! :greatjob:

Edit: May. Had willie on my mind.


----------



## pspot

Sheldon really impressed me and i would love some of that blocking on the Raps...just not sure how much potential he has...meaning hes a really good player right now but im not sure if he could really get much better

May seems like a solid player....how come you dont hear a lot about him re the draft

Felton did not impress me, he would drive up the court with his head down and try to make impossible shots....not what i want in a pg


----------



## rapsfan4life

Blowuptheraps: u mean MAY :biggrin: 

^ yea may is a second rounder at this point because he just doesn't have the height and is rather slow and is therefore forced to play pf in the nba, u match him up against a guy like bosh and zoom blow by city for Bosh. He really doesn't get any credit though as a sescent prospect which i think he is.


----------



## butr

pspot said:


> May seems like a solid player....how come you dont hear a lot about him re the draft
> 
> Felton did not impress me, he would drive up the court with his head down and try to make impossible shots....not what i want in a pg


Height I suppose. Not explosive. Will be a good pro IMO for sure. Would love to have him too.

Felton was not good at all today on O. I think he was spent after locking down JJ for most of the 2nd half.


----------



## rapsfan4life

BTW. SHELDEN WILLIAMS WITH THE PHILLY PICK!!

This guy is a stud, u know he is good based on his knickname the landlord. If he can play center, he and Bosh on the court together will be sick :banana:


----------



## mo76

To me, the most logical and realistic pick is Gerald Green. I am mad that we didn't take Igudala cause i think he is going to be a future star. We need some good 2-3's, which is alot more exciting than needing a center.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

I like Sheldon because he's a guy we can put next to Bosh, next to Hoffa, and next to Bonner and Sow. He's a PF/C and I think we need another one of those. His pick wouldn't leave much room for Sow but you can never have enough bigs.

Sam could run two big front-lines (if Warrick were drafted)

Warrick, Bosh, Hoffa
Bonner, Sow, Sheldon

but we also need a serious quickness/defense upgrade at the guard positions.


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> I like Sheldon because he's a guy we can put next to Bosh, next to Hoffa, and next to Bonner and Sow. He's a PF/C and I think we need another one of those. His pick wouldn't leave much room for Sow but you can never have enough bigs.
> 
> Sam could run two big front-lines (if Warrick were drafted)
> 
> Warrick, Bosh, Hoffa
> Bonner, Sow, Sheldon
> 
> but we also need a serious quickness/defense upgrade at the guard positions.


Every year someone is willing to trade their mid-late pick this year for one next year to save dough for the coming year.

I am officially advocating this strategy regarding the Denver pick which is top-5 protected in 2006.

I think we could get one anywhere from 17-25 for this. Perhaps we can get the guard we need slipping into this window. With hopefully a glut of PGs this becomes more probable. But guys like Jack may decide to stay in school should they not like what they hear at workouts.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

blowuptheraptors said:


> Every year someone is willing to trade their mid-late pick this year for one next year to save dough for the coming year.
> 
> I am officially advocating this strategy regarding the Denver pick which is top-5 protected in 2006.
> 
> I think we could get one anywhere from 17-25 for this. Perhaps we can get the guard we need slipping into this window. With hopefully a glut of PGs this becomes more probable. But guys like Jack may decide to stay in school should they not like what they hear at workouts.


It would be nice to "complete" our roster with this draft but I think that might be overdoing it a little. Such a move could very well leave us without a draft pick the following year. Though that would mean a successful season but it could set us up a middle of the road team (for the long term) and neither of us wants that. We want to maintain a flexible roster and I don't think commencing all of these rookie contracts at the same time looks like the best way to go about that. 

If Babcock could somehow force another developmental year- drafting win later type players and cleaning out some vets for future prospects- THAT could really set us up for a run at the championship. I doubt it will happen as the team is already a tightly knit unit with good youth and veteran presence but you never know what could happen. Next year Mitchell will likely have a playoff calibre team to work with but so will most of the teams out east. One minor injury to Bosh and we could be knocking on Greg Oden's door.

The Denver pick will have significant value, perhaps even ending up in the low lottery with teams like Utah, LAC, and GS improved and ready to make a push. I don't think you can justify trading down the pick to get it a year early when we already have such a deep roster and little playing time available for a late first rounder. Why not fill out our roster with our first second rounder and a free agent of some kind (an experienced international would be nice)? 


That said, looks like Felton took over tonight with 29 points. I don't think we could pass him up if he's available for our first pick. Next up, let's see what Warrick can do against Charlie V and co.


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> It would be nice to "complete" our roster with this draft but I think that might be overdoing it a little. Such a move could very well leave us without a draft pick the following year. Though that would mean a successful season but it could set us up a middle of the road team (for the long term) and neither of us wants that. We want to maintain a flexible roster and I don't think commencing all of these rookie contracts at the same time looks like the best way to go about that.



I have more belief in this draft class than most. There is upside where most see little. Even in the Juniors and Seniors.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Warrick was solid in the win tonight, even hitting a few 3s. He looks pretty good in the open court to me too.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

but that Rudy Gay reverse was sweet. if he comes out, he's definitely high on my list.


----------



## trick

i can't see it now...

the Gay-Bonner duo are tearing it up in TO...


----------



## butr

How tough is Jack, coming back to play on that sprained ankle. Man he is a competitor. And he was playing through a sore shoulder off a Sean May screen.

He's bringing GT back on that ankle. Heart, toughness, leadership. Who wants that in a point guard?

Not me.


----------



## Vinsanity

trick said:


> i
> the Gay-Bonner duo are tearing it up in TO...


lol at that duo name

i hate reddick

red dick-bonner? LMFAO


----------



## JuniorNoboa

I still don't buy that Williams is a great rebounder. He gets rebounds because Randolph is a nancy.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> I still don't buy that Williams is a great rebounder. He gets rebounds because Randolph is a nancy.


He iced the game today over Luke Schenscher and someone else. And always seems to fight off 2 or 3 guys to get a solid chunk of his daily dose. **** Shavlik or not, he's constantly beating his opponents to the ball.

I'll bow to your knowledge of 'cuse, but ....er I'll stop there.

I'm not exactly a homer/Duke supporter. I've been a big backer of Duke rivals as well.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> He iced the game today over Luke Schenscher and someone else. And always seems to fight off 2 or 3 guys to get a solid chunk of his daily dose. **** Shavlik or not, he's constantly beating his opponents to the ball.
> 
> I'll bow to your knowledge of 'cuse, but ....er I'll stop there.
> 
> I'm not exactly a homer/Duke supporter. I've been a big backer of Duke rivals as well.


11.1 boards a game in an NCAA major conference is huge. It does not happen much, and the perception is that you are a great / amazing rebounder for acheiving such numbers

He's a very good offensive rebounder and a good/very good defensive rebounder, but he's not "amazing" like his numbers suggest (that's my point). The fact that he is so out of position for some of his rebounds is the fact that he has to get them for Shavlik.

If you want to argue that I am underrating his rebounding abilities that is fine (although I am acknowledging he is a very good rebounder). But you can't dispute the fact that his numbers are a bit inflated because of Shav (I truly acknowledge being a Duke basher and I love bashing players that deserve it like Randolph) BUT I don't disrespect WIlliams. Several times on these boards I have said he is a first-team all-american and a top 5 POY candidate.

I would be happy with drafting him. Although I don't think you acknowledge the downside of his game enough, while you make comparisons to Boozer - he is at the essence a good fundamental player who is very mechanical. Not a great athlete, a little small, but a great knack for shotblocking. Reminds me so much of Etan Thomas (who was drafted 12th). 

I'm not sure if your accusing of me knowing nothing beyond Syracuse, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I certainly hope you are not inferring that I am simply a Syracuse homer who knows little about the NCAA.

Looking forward to a potentail Syracuse-Duke sweet 16 matchup. Against the 2-3, Williams will be outstanding on the offensive boards as this is a vulnerability of the 2-3 defence (he could get 7-8 offensive boards). But other then on the offensive boards I project that he will be relatively ineffective on the offensive end. He lacks the requisite skills for a big man to operate effectively in the 2-3 (i.e the ability to get the ball at the soft spot of the zone which is always at the free throw line and create a shot). But he will get alot of easy cheap points. If I was Duke I would flash a guard to the top of the key like Ewing.

On the defensive end, I can't see Duke being able to contain the front line of Watkins, Roberts and Warrick on the offensive glass - they were dominant against UConn who are one of the best rebounding teams in the country. Williams will not be able to cover up for Shav all night. And Hakim has been drawing fouls like crazy this year - will Duke stay away from getting in foul trouble.

In the end it might come down to which team can create the best looks for its two clutch shooters. I think JJ Reddick can get better looks out of the zone, then a man to man. That concerns me. Will Billy Edelin somehow be effective and actually be playing by next week so that G-Mac can work off the ball.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Jack's heart is rediculous, he is leading his team and carrying them with pull up 3's driving moves, passing and its all on an ankle. Today i have been convinced to draft jack.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> I'm not sure if your accusing of me knowing nothing beyond Syracuse, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I certainly hope you are not inferring that I am simply a Syracuse homer who knows little about the NCAA.


This is why I stopped short of saying anything. There was nothing disrespectful in what I was saying. But I would never promote myself to know any team extremely well, except Duke. I'm not sure how many Duke games you get to watch. So while Shavlik is crap, Shelden must still fight his ACC opponents and others for the boards. All I'm saying is that I see past the numbers on this team more than anyone on at least the raptors board. I do think he is tremendous. This is not really a disagreement. Is he great or is he fantastic?

My comparisons to boozer are mainly in him being undersized and underrated. Shelden is a far better shot-blocker and better reounder IMO. His O will come out more when he gets out of Duke which also happened to Boozer when you look back.

I also look forward to a potential match-up.


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## rapsfan4life

For u guys that are clueless, there are four brackets in the tourney and draftcity has looked at the chicago and albeqerque bracket and the draft prospects for each prospect per team.

http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=112
http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=113

Guys of note to raps fans:



> Joey Graham, 6-7, SF, senior, Oklahoma State, mid-first rounder
> After showing flashes of potential that turned the heads of draft buffs last season, Graham has developed into a full fledged star in 2005. Built like a fullback, Graham has one of the more impressive physical packages of any 2005 draft prospect...





> Deron Williams, 6-3, PG, junior, Illinois, potential lottery pick
> The most highly regarded of Bruce Weber’s trio of superstar guards, Williams is the guy you want to play PG on your team. He absolutely controls the game without having to be a scoring threat, by directing tempo and getting people the ball in the right places. In this way, he might remind you a bit of Jason Kidd...





> Nate Robinson, 5-8, PG, junior, Washington, high 2nd round pick(we cant pass him up, JUST LOOK AT THE PHOTO ALONE)
> 
> Just how does a 5’8 PG get the draft buzz that Nate Robinson has been getting this season? Watch Robinson play, and you don’t have to be asking this question. One of the truly unique athletes in the draft this season, Robinson plays above the rim like a 6’6 wing. He penetrates at will, and is sure to have at least one dunk that makes the tourney highlight reel...





> Jarrett Jack, 6-3, PG, junior, potential lottery pick
> After an outstanding ACC tournament, leading his team to the finals and a pretty nice seeding after being on the bubble just a week ago, Jack is looking to boost his stock even more with an excellent NCAA tournament. He is tournament tested already, taking Georgia Tech on his back all the way to the finals last year when they lost to UConn...


There are more but those are the essential guys i like and that i think we should get, feel free to add.


----------



## ansoncarter

I love seeing Jack get to the line. He's got that 'thing' going for him where he can toe the line between charge/contact. I love that. Rafer's game would explode if he was better at it

I want to see Sheldon WIlliams standing reach. I think it's going to be crazy, like 9'3 or 9'4. If it is we should draft him and give him a good nickname 
(like Long-Arm Williams)


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## rapsfan4life

He already has a knickname, its THE LANDLORD, hopefully he will collect the rent for the raps next year :biggrin:


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## JuniorNoboa

blowuptheraptors said:


> This is why I stopped short of saying anything. There was nothing disrespectful in what I was saying. But I would never promote myself to know any team extremely well, except Duke. I'm not sure how many Duke games you get to watch. So while Shavlik is crap, Shelden must still fight his ACC opponents and others for the boards. All I'm saying is that I see past the numbers on this team more than anyone one, at least the raptors board. I do think he is tremendous. *This is not really a disagreement. Is he great or is he fantastic? *
> 
> My comparisons to boozer are mainly in him being undersized and underrated. Shelden is a far better shot-blocker and better reounder IMO. His O will come out more when he gets out of Duke which also happened to Boozer when you look back.
> 
> I also look forward to a potential match-up.


The true intent of my original post was to take a dig at Shav basically - it was nothing against WIlliams. As you say we are not really disagreeing on Williams

But I have seen alot of Duke Games this year:

UNC (2)
NC St
Georgia Tech
St. John's
Oklahoma
Maryland (2)

And those are the top of my head. Duke is always on TV.


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## bigbabyjesus

blowinuptheraps, was that you I heard on 'the rap' the other day going on with your Shelden Williams campain? even brought out the Emeka Okafor stat thing eh?  

as for prospects in the tournie, two guys i am very intrigued with right now and are definetly the type of guys Babcock and Mitchell are looking for: Jarrett Jack, and Joey Graham. both fit positions of need, are tough as nails, good defenders, and love to go inside and rebound. 

people have said Jarrett Jack is a shoot first point guard, but if you watch him play, you will really think different. a majority of his teammates are defensive specialiasts who cannot shoot and he has a big guy in the middle who just cant finish ..cough *Schenscher* cough.. therefore his assist numbers may seem a little low. i'm not one of those people who just want to draft Jack because he is Boshs' best friend, i want him because he is the type of player we need.


----------



## butr

vigilante said:


> blowinuptheraps, was that you I heard on 'the rap' the other day going on with your Shelden Williams campain? even brought out the Emeka Okafor stat thing eh?
> 
> as for prospects in the tournie, two guys i am very intrigued with right now and are definetly the type of guys Babcock and Mitchell are looking for: Jarrett Jack, and Joey Graham. both fit positions of need, are tough as nails, good defenders, and love to go inside and rebound.
> 
> people have said Jarrett Jack is a shoot first point guard, but if you watch him play, you will really think different. a majority of his teammates are defensive specialiasts who cannot shoot and he has a big guy in the middle who just cant finish ..cough *Schenscher* cough.. therefore his assist numbers may seem a little low. i'm not one of those people who just want to draft Jack because he is Boshs' best friend, i want him because he is the type of player we need.



'twas I.

As for Jack I think you are right on cold shooting days. He can pick and choose what he does. If he needs to take over and drive or shoot he does it. But he can ceertainly make the pass. One sticks out in my head from a few weeks ago where he blew into the paint jumped and pumped around passing the ball off to the right for Schenscher who then promptly missed the easy lay-up.


----------



## butr

JuniorNoboa said:


> The true intent of my original post was to take a dig at Shav basically - it was nothing against WIlliams. As you say we are not really disagreeing on Williams
> 
> But I have seen alot of Duke Games this year:
> 
> UNC (2)
> NC St
> Georgia Tech
> St. John's
> Oklahoma
> Maryland (2)
> 
> And those are the top of my head. Duke is always on TV.


That's a lot for a non-Duke fan. No life either huh? J/K.


----------



## CrookedJ

Duke^^ I just got off the phone with professor from there thats been hired by WLU and we're bringing into Canada. 

Anywho, Has anybody seen Danny Granger play? 6'8" SF outta New Mexico. Was just reading a Sports Guy column and he predicted Granger to be a Josh Howard style player, which IMO is exactly what we need. Draft city has him going #14, NBA Draft.net says#13. 48% from three, a polished post game, not a freak athlete, but a quality player.



> The unquestioned leader on the floor...Tremendous shot-blocker...Quick hands...Plays passing lanes very well...Always around the ball...Has all the physical tools, instincts, and intensity to be a shut-down defender...Plays with great intensity and passion


http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/dannygranger.asp

Those are what Babcock / Mitchell are looking for, and from the limited amount I've read, he's my favourite swing man prospect for the first round.


----------



## lucky777s

Problem with Granger is that he plays a lot of PF for his team. That is why it is hard to find good perimeter guys in college who are 6'8" or 6'9". They are forced to play inside and don't develop the skills they need for the nba.

To get a good SF of that height you almost have to look to HS or Euro's these days.

Joey Graham or Antoine Wright could be better swings with only slightly less size. Gerald Green is the prize SF out there, but who knows if it will take 1 year or 3 years for him to develop. No reason to believe he is much different from MarvinWilliams or RudyGay who are just freshmen. They may both come out this year if they are guaranteed lotto picks. Marvin seems pretty certain.


----------



## CrookedJ

lucky777s said:


> Problem with Granger is that he plays a lot of PF for his team. That is why it is hard to find good perimeter guys in college who are 6'8" or 6'9". They are forced to play inside and don't develop the skills they need for the nba.
> 
> To get a good SF of that height you almost have to look to HS or Euro's these days.
> 
> Joey Graham or Antoine Wright could be better swings with only slightly less size. Gerald Green is the prize SF out there, but who knows if it will take 1 year or 3 years for him to develop. No reason to believe he is much different from MarvinWilliams or RudyGay who are just freshmen. They may both come out this year if they are guaranteed lotto picks. Marvin seems pretty certain.



Cool thanks . . . I guess thats why they called him a poor mans Shawn Marion, capable of playing PF. I heard MarvinWilliams is unlinkely to declare unless they win the big dance.


----------



## butr

Diaz sounds like he is returning to school next year.

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=150268


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## rapsfan4life

^yep, his team ended the year horribly and basically got no media attention thus hurting his stock and basically putting the pressure on him to impress in workouts. He says he is dedicated to improving his Pg skills and will do whatever it takes to become better. I like it


----------



## lucky777s

I just watched about 2 minutes of Andrew Bogut. More than enough for me to say this guy is NOT a number 1 overall pick. Way overhyped. Not strong enough or tough enough to play C in the nba. He's a project. I think Hoffa would eat him alive.


----------



## rapsfan4life

No way man, 2 minutes is nothing, give it time. The man is a horse and if your talking basketball than bogut would school hoffa as he did last year as a freshman and hoffa was a senior. Watch him for an entire game or for about a dozen games or so as i have and most likely every scout has and you'll realize he is a stud PERIOD. but u know your entitled to your opinion :biggrin:


----------



## JuniorNoboa

What did you guys think of Taj Gray's performance today agaisnt Niagara? I thought he showed why he is picked by some to be a lottery pick.


----------



## lucky777s

Every scout loved Shawn Bradley too. Just like they loved Ralph Sampson, Kandi, Keon Clark, and other guys. Projecting these guys into the pros is not easy. They all had tremendous abilities.

Bogut is neither a horse nor a stud. He is weak. I watched him get backed down in the post by a college PF, and saw him be easily pushed around by smaller players. He scores points and blocks shots strictly because he has a huge size advantage in college.

He moves very well, and I'm not calling him a bust at all. He is worthy of a top 10 pick, but no way is he a number 1 overall. He won't have that kind of impact. We aren't looking at a Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, or Ming type player. We are looking at a Nenad Krstic or Primo Brezec type player at best. 

Taj Gray could be a good PF in the league. Not a special player. Late lotto maybe but more likely in the late teens or 20s.


----------



## spuriousjones

I was reading the Sergio Rodríguez profile on draft city.


> Rodríguez is probably the best Spanish passer I’ve seen at the youth level. I say Spanish because *Panchi Barrera, from Uruguay, is the best passer I’ve seen at this level.* link


all i can get on him is this 
 and this.

btw, draftcity bumped Aleksandrov and ate him up. link


----------



## drlove_playa

Bogut would own the **** out of Hoffa. Hoffa would have a hard time posting up 5'8" Nate Robinson.

I watched Bogut play today and I thought he did well. He is a very smart player. Those guys used to be all over him when he got the ball and he still made good plays. He played well on defense, altering and blocking shots. I certainly wish we had him instead of hoffa.

Alot of NBA execs are high on Bogut as the #1. But who else could go number 1? There are no immediate stars in this draft. However it is going to be a better draft than last year.

Either Bogut, Marvin or Paul are gonna go #1. Depending on which team gets the pick. I know the Bobcats are high on Paul, not sure on the other teams that may get the #1.

I would like to see the raps get Gerald green with our pick. Rudy fernadez with the philly, and Juan Mendez with a late 2nd rounder (jus cuz he is canadian and is a descent player).


----------



## speedythief

JuniorNoboa said:


> What did you guys think of Taj Gray's performance today agaisnt Niagara? I thought he showed why he is picked by some to be a lottery pick.


Played well. I liked his game.

I was also impressed today with Bass.

Both of these guys should be on our team's radar for next year's draft.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

I think there are decent chances that Bass will declare this year.

He is the SEC player of the year - the exact type of player that has little to gain in terms of draft position, because anything short of first-team all-american will be seen as poor development in his game, and probably hurt his draft position.

My gut feeling is that he goes.


----------



## butr

drlove_playa said:


> I would like to see the raps get Gerald green with our pick. Rudy fernadez with the philly, and Juan Mendez with a late 2nd rounder (jus cuz he is canadian and is a descent player).


I see you really want to address our defensive problems, perimeter and interior well as rebounding.


----------



## lucky777s

I think that is exactly what picking Green and RudyF would do. Our perimeter D is going to suck for 2 more seasons anyway if Rob's plan is to hang on to Jalen, EWill, Aaron, and Lamond and wait for the cap space.

These picks should both become solid defenders under Sam by then. They have the length and athleticism.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Adam Morrison distinguished himself yesterday. And if he were to leave this year he would probably be somewhere between 10-25 (I give wide ranges at this point). Does anybody have interest in 

He could become a solid complimentary scorer for Bosh. Good, but not great athletically, The guy just knows how to play the game.

I would definetely look at him closely as our future three.


----------



## CrookedJ

I was impressed with Morrison, sure can shoot the ball. Here's some stats for games against top flight competition.

11/27 /04 vs Illinois - 26 points, 11-21 fg's, 1 TO 
12/1/04 vs Washington - 28 pts, 9-19 fg's's, 0 TO
12/19/04 vs Georgia Tech - 24 pts, 11-18 fg's, 1 TO
12/28/04 vs Oklahoma - 19 pts, 8-13 fg's, 1 TO

Draft City describes him as "Perhaps the best pure scorer at the NCAA level. Morrison Lights it up in a variety of ways, whether it be on an outside jumper, taking his man off the dribble, or fading away from fifteen."

Are we going for offensive, defense, or just a solid all round player?


----------



## lucky777s

The kid from Kentucky Azubuike looked very good yesterday. Reminds me a little of a Luol Deng. He can play the SF spot and comes from a great defensive program. 

I have seen a couple of Kentucky games and sometimes he's impressive while other times he isn't.

I really want to see the Oklahoma State game to see Joey Graham. I think this might be the direction Babs goes with the Philly pick. Ready to step in and help.


----------



## CrookedJ

Azubuike is a great defender, and he can fill it up too. They were talking about him on the Draft board the other day and the consensus was he won't / shouldn't be drafted. IMO he certainly is worthy of a 2nd round pick, he has much less star potential, but a solid player.


----------



## butr

lucky777s said:


> I think that is exactly what picking Green and RudyF would do. Our perimeter D is going to suck for 2 more seasons anyway if Rob's plan is to hang on to Jalen, EWill, Aaron, and Lamond and wait for the cap space.
> 
> These picks should both become solid defenders under Sam by then. They have the length and athleticism.


I HSer and young Euro won't help much, you are right. But the 2 seem redundant to me. This team is near the bottom in rebound differential. Bottom quarter in blocks.

I don't know Rob's strategy going in. Unless he has actually earmarked Cap dollars to Jamal, I can't see him not taking a solid big unless he really gets his guys. He seems hot for Green and who knows about the rest.

If he does not get a big. This team won't rebound next year either.


----------



## lucky777s

Rebounding could continue to be a big problem. Depends on 3 things: 1) Hoffa, 2) Improved perimeter D to keep our bigs at home on their man. 3) Bonner possibly playing more minutes at the SF spot and keeping his man off the boards and off the back of Hoff/Bosh.

The think I like about Bonner taking Donny's minutes is that Donny never boxes out, he just goes after the ball. If the Raps only lose the rebounding battle by 3 each game that will be good enough most nights.

I don't see a SG and a SF as being redundant. We badly need wing players for the future. Raps can't attack off the dribble right now. And can't defend the wings either. Our offensive sets are extremely limited, and our D is in a constant scramble after initial penetration.

I think the second round or next year's draft can get us guys like Taj Gray, Maxiell, or similar big athletic PF's if Sow turns out to be a bust.


----------



## butr

lucky777s said:


> Rebounding could continue to be a big problem. Depends on 3 things: 1) Hoffa, 2) Improved perimeter D to keep our bigs at home on their man. 3) Bonner possibly playing more minutes at the SF spot and keeping his man off the boards and off the back of Hoff/Bosh.
> 
> The think I like about Bonner taking Donny's minutes is that Donny never boxes out, he just goes after the ball. If the Raps only lose the rebounding battle by 3 each game that will be good enough most nights.
> 
> I don't see a SG and a SF as being redundant. We badly need wing players for the future. Raps can't attack off the dribble right now. And can't defend the wings either. Our offensive sets are extremely limited, and our D is in a constant scramble after initial penetration.
> 
> I think the second round or next year's draft can get us guys like Taj Gray, Maxiell, or similar big athletic PF's if Sow turns out to be a bust.



I think it will depend on what trades Babs has laid the groundwork for. For whatever its worth, he told Chuck on the radio that the offseason should be extremely busy. He won't guarantee a huge turnover.

If he is going to finally move some of our swings, then I agree with you. But until Babs figures out who the veteran keepers are, the draft could go anywhere.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

I'm still not sure if it is reasonable for us to expect him to get rid of players like Williams and Murray without just plain releasing them.


----------



## ballocks

my perception of our "needs" changes constantly. i think the raptors who currently comprise the roster are a strange mix, and a need that jumps out at me in one game could be rendered all but invisible in the next. such is the nba but still, i don't think our range of performance in several categories should be as varied as it has been recently. i guess i can conclude- for now- that we can therefore use help in every area. i wouldn't necessarily object to taking the best talent (regardless of position) come june. in fact, i think that would probably be the way to go given our long-term map. 

still, it's especially hard to watch our rebounding at times and i don't think we're alone in this regard. i think the science of rebounding is being somewhat overlooked by the latest generation of pros and managers and i think "poor" rebounders will soon be absolutely everywhere (if they aren't already). we currently have quite a few of them on the roster, no doubt, but i like what mitchell has done with bonner over the past few months and am even impressed with how marshall has improved of late. i think marshall in particular is still a weak rebounder, no question, but his awareness of the players around him has improved (imo). that's key.

he still sucks but he's not as bad as he was earlier this season.

you can't teach rebounding (or its knack) that easily, though, and i think i'll be starving for a ferocious rebounder to come from the draft pool. i think butr's bias is well placed this season, i think shelden is precisely the kind of player who could change the face of our team (ignoring the game when sean may went 26 & 24 on him while shel' fell ~ 20 rebounds short). 

i think positional defense and active bodies on the defensive glass can separate the future of this team from that of the rest- there are so many poor rebounding nba teams that i can see us vaulting past many of them by simply dominating this one category. it's never that easy but then again... sometimes it is.

i mean, it doesn't have to be shelden either. just someone who understands the fundamentals and doesn't take breaks- someone who forces himself to not take breaks. if we can snag one such rebounding tiger i think we're in a good position to move forward with bosh and whoever's added to the backcourt with the other draft pick (jack? green? morrison? it doesn't really matter to me as much). 

hoffa's improvement would only accelerate the plan. it'd be like an added bonus when araujo learns to feel comfortable as a pro, in the paint and on the glass.

peace


----------



## ansoncarter

2007/8 should be the first year that actually matters. Theres like 3 players that will even be here still

The last thing Babcock should be worrying about is what the present roster needs. if he wants a rebounder, fine. Every team needs them. But don't pass on someone else because the present group can't board.


----------



## butr

I'm not going to keep harping on it. We all have our own opinions. If Shelden Williams is the next Ben Wallace IMO, I take him. Other than Joey Graham, who on the wing is a sure thing? There are a lot of PGs in this draft too,I don't want them all.

If I am Babs I target my guys, regardless of projected draft position (within reason). Shelden would be one. Graham would be one. Jack would be one. I don't like Felton, his head is unfocussed and forgets to drive. Gilchrist is a headcase and we have Rafer for that at PG. Green might be one from all I've heard. But where is his head? Is he mature like Lebron or is his head really big? All the guys I like know team ball and defence with a great attitude. I can't speak for HSers and Euros, and quite honestly neither can any of you. 

It should honestly be best player available because it should be about asset accumulation at this point, because as we saw with VC, situations change, a glut of swings turns into a lack of them. But with this in mind, when all else is equal, draft need.

I don't like comparing apples to oranges b/w sports but the Pats have drafted the right people. Smart, very smart players. Solid people. They got rid of superstar headcases, because they were disruptions. Outright talent is important, but in the scheme of things you need to strike a balance between that and bright and brilliant people for the sake of team. Other wise you'll end up with a team of Darius Miles'.


----------



## speedythief

Chuck Villanueva is starting to grow on me. I love his passing, I love his fluidity of motion. I think NBADraft.net's comparison of him to Lamar Odom is bang-on. I'd like to run him as an oversized three but I wonder if he can develop into more of a post presence as well. If I had to pick between him and Hakim right now, I think I'd take Charlie.


----------



## lucky777s

Listening to Babs during the Pistons game (if you can believe him) he said that his wish list for the draft would include a combo guard (PG/SG) and a defensive minded SF.

To me that says Rudy Fernandez and Joey Graham. The combo guard has to be at least 6'5" unless you are getting a Dwayne Wade type of athlete.

Didn't get to see Joey play yesterday, but hopefully Sunday. Francisco Garcia has looked pretty good, but I don't know if he's a sure thing.

Granger looked a little better than I thought he might. Didn't get to see much of him. Wanted to see him defend on the perimeter. But offensively he should be able to play SF. Just not sure about his quickness.

Didn't see Antoine Wright at all.

I am starting to think that Babs won't have the guts to pick a HS kid, no matter how high his ceiling looks to be. He seems to be feeling the pressure to see immediate improvement. If Green is on the board and he is the real deal I hope Babs can make the right call.


----------



## ansoncarter

the Patriots are a good example of a team assembling high-character players and gamers. Babcock will surely take those things into consideration. He talks about it incessantly

but the Pats are also a good example of what I'm looking for. They have a widely recognized history of drafting on value over need. 

I can understand taking hard-nosed types. It might really pay off surrounding Bosh with like-minded players. It's just addressing 'team needs' I'm concerned with. I don't want them given one iota of consideration.


----------



## butr

lucky777s said:


> Listening to Babs during the Pistons game (if you can believe him) he said that his wish list for the draft would include a combo guard (PG/SG) and a defensive minded SF.


I would not believe anything he says about the draft.


----------



## butr

ansoncarter said:


> I can understand taking hard-nosed types. It might really pay off surrounding Bosh with like-minded players. It's just addressing 'team needs' I'm concerned with. I don't want them given one iota of consideration.


Only when their assesment of players or rating of players is equal should they then go toward A) what's a rarer commodity then B) team need.


----------



## ansoncarter

who would be the combo-guard he has in mind? (not that he's being forthright, just a hypothetical)

didn't someone say he was scouting N.Carolina pretty closely? I'd have no problem with McCants. Especially if draftcity is anywhere near accurate and he's a late first. Imagine someone was dumb enough to do our two seconds for McCants?!?!?!?!??! man. That could be huge for us. (I doubt this is the 'type' of guard he has in mind. Just dreaming really)


Why is McCants so low? you'd think after Gordon's success he might be a little higher than that. If I hadn't read the draft websites I would of thought he was late lotto. I'd be seriously excited if we got him on the cheap


----------



## speedythief

Joey Graham or Danny Granger?

That could be an interesting question come draft day.


----------



## rebelsun

Toronto is a mess right now. They succeeded on the Bosh no-brainer pick, but other than that, I have not been impressed with them lately. I am not a Jalen Rose fan, and I'm not sure his teammates are either. The Araujo pick was a great example of putting team needs before player value. I think they gave way too much money and too many years to Alston (guaranteed thru 09/10!). They blew getting _anything_ for Marshall at the deadline. The cap situation isn't great either. They owe Alvin Williams $20m over the next 3 years and Mourning $12 over 2.

However, all is not hopeless. Bosh is a franchise talent, and should only become an elite player through this rebuilding process. I think Peterson and Bonner are nice players. They will have some decent cap room next summer. They have 1st round picks owed to them via Jersey.

I think a good scenario for them would be to draft Gerald Green and Charlie Villanueva. Green would be able to develop behind Jalen for the next couple of years, while Charlie can play good minutes at multiple positions right away. In the second round, they should be able to pick up a decent reserve big man: David Lee, Lawrence Roberts, Jason Maxiell, etc.


----------



## butr

speedythief said:


> Joey Graham or Danny Granger?
> 
> That could be an interesting question come draft day.



Very. Injuries may be a concern with Granger.


----------



## Crossword

RebelSun said:


> I think a good scenario for them would be to draft Gerald Green and Charlie Villanueva. Green would be able to develop behind Jalen for the next couple of years, while Charlie can play good minutes at multiple positions right away. In the second round, they should be able to pick up a decent reserve big man: David Lee, Lawrence Roberts, Jason Maxiell, etc.


If we come out of the first round with Green and Villenueva, which still would be a good draft even though it wouldn't cover our greatest need, we would absolutely have to go point guard in the 2nd round. Getting two big men and a point guard would not only be redundant, but it wouldn't really solve anything, either.


----------



## butr

Anyone who saw the last five minutes of the Duke game would change their opinion of our needs, and of Shelden. 15 boards and 5 blocks, one crazy and critical toward the end. Man, you can't tell me we don't need a presence like him. He is a more rare commodity than swingmen and PGs. I'm gonna be a Shelden fan either way. It would just be a lot easier if he were in Raptor Purple.


----------



## osman

blowuptheraptors said:


> Anyone who saw the last five minutes of the Duke game would change their opinion of our needs, and of Shelden. 15 boards and 5 blocks, one crazy and critical toward the end. Man, you can't tell me we don't need a presence like him. He is a more rare commodity than swingmen and PGs. I'm gonna be a Shelden fan either way. It would just be a lot easier if he were in Raptor Purple.


What position would be play for the Raps? Can he play some C? or would he be a backup PF.


----------



## TDrake

Personally, the guy who's impressed me the most in the tournament is Augustine - maybe because he's on such a good team? Anyway, is there a chance he'll declare?


----------



## butr

osman said:


> What position would be play for the Raps? Can he play some C? or would he be a backup PF.


If Ben Wallace can play the C at 6-9 240, so can Shelden. But that's my Opinion. I only watched 20+ games this year.


----------



## ballocks

i personally feel that shelden looked weak today. i don't think his matchup with roberts really helped his draft value at all, quite frankly, but that's probably a good thing for the raps' draft position. 

it was a strange game in terms of the officiating (both ways imo) but shelden looked like he was really struggling to put the ball in the hole. he usually looks like an nba centre to my eyes but he looked short, slow and tired today (imo). i thought about it some more and realized that lawrence roberts was probably the first check i had seen him play this season who had a bona fide nba body. i don't know if that's a red flag or not, i usually don't simplify players like that, but i'd be lying if i said i wasn't somewhat concerned. 

what might've bothered me the most was how he just looked a little "different" on the boards today (imo). he wasn't as eager to attack the ball- i mean, he wasn't stationary or anything, it's just that the "juice" that had earlier intrigued me about him on the glass didn't seem to be there. still, he collected what, 15 boards? it might have just been one game or, to be perfectly honest, it might have just been me. 

his block in the final 2 was electric but he was lucky he didn't get whistled for his fourth there. come to think of it, maybe it was the foul trouble that left him less active this afternoon and, if so, maybe that's a good thing- i don't think he collected another one for the rest of the game.

even so, i don't think he looked "good". he looked smaller and more tired than usual, imo.

peace


----------



## butr

ballocks said:


> i personally feel that shelden looked weak today. i don't think his matchup with roberts really helped his draft value at all, quite frankly, but that's probably a good thing for the raps' draft position.
> 
> it was a strange game in terms of the officiating (both ways imo) but shelden looked like he was really struggling to put the ball in the hole. he usually looks like an nba centre to my eyes but he looked short, slow and tired today (imo). i thought about it some more and realized that lawrence roberts was probably the first check i had seen him play this season who had a bona fide nba body. i don't know if that's a red flag or not, i usually don't simplify players like that, but i'd be lying if i said i wasn't somewhat concerned.
> 
> what might've bothered me the most was how he just looked a little "different" on the boards today (imo). he wasn't as eager to attack the ball- i mean, he wasn't stationary or anything, it's just that the "juice" that had earlier intrigued me about him on the glass didn't seem to be there. still, he collected what, 15 boards? it might have just been one game or, to be perfectly honest, it might have just been me.
> 
> his block in the final 2 was electric but he was lucky he didn't get whistled for his fourth there. come to think of it, maybe it was the foul trouble that left him less active this afternoon and, if so, maybe that's a good thing- i don't think he collected another one for the rest of the game.
> 
> even so, i don't think he looked "good". he looked smaller and more tired than usual, imo.
> 
> peace


Unfortunately today I was not with sportsnet and the US feed did not go to Duke until late.

On any given play and any given matchup, someone can not look their best. I'll not go into some of the favourites of this board who have disappointed recently. The numbers are the number with Shelden today. As for the call/non-call, in watching Duke games it comes and goes. I've seen all-ball blocks that get called. The Refs let'm play a bit in the end.

As for juice, remember, Duke won the ACC. 3 back-to-back-to-back. And there are no gimmes. 

All this said, if it means he can be had with the philly pick, I hope he looks "tired" the rest of the way.


----------



## Crossword

blowuptheraptors said:


> Unfortunately today I was not with sportsnet and the US feed did not go to Duke until late.


Why would you watch the US feed? Sportsnet is just so much better.


----------



## butr

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Why would you watch the US feed? Sportsnet is just so much better.


I don't get cable at home. Grudge v. cable companies and our Directv isn't what it used to be. So I have one CBS. If I were at my ladies' place I would've had it.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Why would you watch the US feed? Sportsnet is just so much better.


Why would you only watch one feed???

Two TV's is the way to go!!

Anyway, the Canadian feed is much better, just because they can't show more then 8 minutes an hour of commercials. 

I also liked when Jack Armstrong said, "Will Billy Packer ever shut up" during the Miss St game. It as great .


----------



## butr

I know. But 32 then 16 games is a lot for me to ask of the lady. I already watch Raptors and EPL enough. She was really good and went to WEGZ, watched a bunch of others too. Then we went out Sunday afternoon back to my place and Duke wasn't on till the end.


----------



## trick

JuniorNoboa said:


> I also liked when Jack Armstrong said, "Will Billy Packer ever shut up" during the Miss St game. It as great .


:laugh:
i didn't know he could say such things on his stature


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Grahams stock is falling after two terrible tournie games. Draftcity even said he could be a "borderline first rounder at this point with how lost he looks on the court."

I saw some of the Ok St. games, and when I did see them in crunch time, Graham was on the bench. Apparently he just hasn't had his head into the game and looks completely lost and makes mistakes on both ends of the floor.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Speaking of draftcity:

http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=121 :stock watch

http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=122 :Gerald greens in the roundball classic and his crazy performance with inhuman vertical :biggrin: 


http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=123 :more draft stock

http://draftcity.com/mock.php?y=2005 :updated mock


NBADRAFT.NET's turn:

http://nbadraft.net/index.asp :updated mock

http://nbadraft.net/stockwatch007.asp :stock watch

***http://nbadraft.net/2005earlyentry.asp :early entry page as of now**


i hope this is helpful


----------



## JuniorNoboa

With the additions of HKF and BlaBla, two very knowledeable and easy to read fellow college board posters here, Draft City has clearly jumped ahead of NBADraft.net in terms of "readability". They don't try to prove they no more then you like the other guys.


----------



## lucky777s

Gerald Green
6’8” SG/SF; Committed to Oklahoma State

Yesterday we wrote that Green didn’t do anything to lose the sense that he’s the best player on the court, but did nothing to cement that either. Well, today he did. He showed off 3 point range, a midrange game, smooth athleticism and defensive intensity (a jaw dropping shot block during a one-on-one drill, and no one could get by him during pick and roll drills). There really isn’t much more to say about how he played, just an overall solid effort that one would expect from the man holding the top spot in his class. Green is the most NBA ready of the players participating in the event. He has the size and skills to play in the league.
--------

Hope Babs has the guts to take a HS player. Can't see Isiah letting a guy like this pass him by, so we had better be ahead of the Knicks in the lotto.


----------



## butr

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7262162/

Charlie is declaring.


----------



## ansoncarter

"Following the practice, the players were allowed to have their vertical leaps measured (possibly for bragging rights?) and Green blew everyone out of the water in this competition, at one point even jumping higher than the person administering the test thought he could jump (he cleared the markers set)."

^doesn't sound like he has the character Babcock is focussed on, and he likely won't touch him, but I want this guy on our team.


----------



## Crossword

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7262162/
> 
> Charlie is declaring.


 Nice nice... I'll take him over Green with our lotto pick. In fact I like a Villenueva/Jack draft better than a Williams/Jack draft.


----------



## ansoncarter

where would we play him though? I hope he isn't the best available when we pick. That would suck if noone better is around. He's too similar to Bosh. Both like the highpost. That would suck

and Mitchell would probably hate the guy if he's as passionless as everyone says

we gotta gamble on green. (we can call him Green-Machine too)


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Man, day by day I want Green more and more. 

Like Draftcity said he is the only high school player who should make the jump to the NBA. I think he could make an impact right away, if not of the offensive end, we could use a guy with that kind of defensive ability. 

And yeah, we definetly need to get ahead of the Knicks, because I know Isiah is going to be all over this guy. 

As for taking Charlie over Green.. come on! 

Why does everyone like Charlie so much? He is inconsistent as hell, he cannot play a lick of defense, and doesn't put full effort out on the floor. Not the type of player we need at all.


----------



## butr

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Nice nice... I'll take him over Green with our lotto pick. In fact I like a Villenueva/Jack draft better than a Williams/Jack draft.


Not trying to change your opinion. It is interesting to see his projected draft slot. 11 on draftcity. 20 on NBAdraft.net. Not that I want him, but you might try with Philly's rather than ours.


Regarding Green, I'd really like to see video and hear from the kid himself. I'm sure from what we hear the talent is there. I am concerned about the head and heart.


----------



## Crossword

blowuptheraptors said:


> Not trying to change your opinion. It is interesting to see his projected draft slot. 11 on draftcity. 20 on NBAdraft.net. Not that I want him, but you might try with Philly's rather than ours.


True, he could really go anywhere. I might even be liking Josh Boone as much as him, but he's coming out next year (probably). If Felton's available with our pick then we should definitely take him, and that leaves Philly's pick to take a steal (hopefully), Caron Butler style.

Either way, Charlie declaring is good for us because, at the very least, it deepens the draft.



> Regarding Green, I'd really like to see video and hear from the kid himself. I'm sure from what we hear the talent is there. I am concerned about the head and heart.


From what you posted in the other thread, I'm impressed. The way things are looking, he'll probably be a top-10 pick (T-Mac anyone?) that might fall to us with a late-top-10 pick. If we're picking 9th and he's there then we should heavily consider taking him.


----------



## Crossword

vigilante said:


> As for taking Charlie over Green.. come on!
> 
> Why does everyone like Charlie so much? He is inconsistent as hell, he cannot play a lick of defense, and doesn't put full effort out on the floor. Not the type of player we need at all.


He can also play 3 positions, has crazy athleticism, has NBA-size, NBA-range, and NBA-game.


----------



## lucky777s

He cannot play 3 positions. That is pure BS. Fact is he probably can't guard ANY position at the NBA level. Definitely not the 3 or 5. 

CharlieV is 'potentially' a good PF, that's it. His low post game is below average playing against undersized C's in college. He prefers to hang out on the wing and shoot. And its not like he is Dirk Nowitzki. 

He is also not 'crazy athletic'. He is FAR less athletic than TimThomas. Not even close. Charlie doesn't move his feet well at all on D.

The NBA is becoming a league of specialists, like the NFL. You have to bring something special to the table in one area. You have to be a scorer or a rebounder or a defensive force or a pure playmaker. Charlie will not be special in any of those areas.

At least Sheldon has a chance to be special on D and rebounding. I don't think he will be due to his lack of height and the fact he will be going against taller, quicker, and equally strong players at the next level. His physical advantages will not be there like in college.

Charlie is soft. He should be dominant in college. He is not. I don't want him on the Raps. I like Boone's potential as a pro much better.


----------



## vi3t_boi11

Anyone watch the EA Sports Roundball Classic? Well u can see Gerald Green play in the McDonald's all-american game on march 30 and the nike hoop summit game on april 9


----------



## butr

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/college/3100345

No Taj Gray this year.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Fransisco Garcia anyone????? What are your thoughts when u here that name. He has boosted his stock in this tourney. I would really not be disappointed if we get garcia but maybe its just me :biggrin: 

Tayshawn Prince with a shot in my opinion


----------



## lucky777s

The Raps may face a very tough decision between Garcia and Graham. Garcia has the skills but Graham has the nba body and supposedly more explosiveness.

Garcia is a shooter who can handle the ball and create for others. Good slasher. 

Graham had a bad tournament and looked to be more of an inside player at times. Will probably get to the FT line a lot in the pros. Good strong body to absorb contact.

Garcia looks better in college but could Graham be the better pro? Maybe a Corey Maggette type that gets better every year? Danny Granger could be a wildcard here as well.

Second round is looking great too.

This draft will be a nightmare for GM's. So many pretty equal guys with good potential, but you know only a certain number will achieve that potential. Individual workouts will be key. I can see every teams draft board being totally different with some players ranging from the 9 pick to the 34th pick.


----------



## butr

rapsfan4life said:


> Fransisco Garcia anyone????? What are your thoughts when u here that name. He has boosted his stock in this tourney. I would really not be disappointed if we get garcia but maybe its just me :biggrin:
> 
> Tayshawn Prince with a shot in my opinion


May go in 20's. Get that 3rd pick.


----------



## rapsfan4life

We need DERON WILLIAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why?Tonight!!!!Nuff said


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Yeah, Deron Williams is looking like a prime candidate for our second pick if we don't go for a guard with our first. Don't really think he'll last past the lotto though (stupid orlando :curse: ).


----------



## SkywalkerAC

*Here come the Euros*

Expect the 2005 to get a little deeper as young euros (namely Aleksandrov and Andriuskivicious) put their names into the draft while they still can. I'm still not sure that an age limit would go through (doesn't seem legal to me) but it sure is starting to SOUND like it could come into effect very quickly. I don't think either guy is too happy with their playing time in Europe (much like Darko and Biedrins, etc) and are ready to cash in. A distinct possibility is for them to be drafted and left to develop for a year in europe, though many fan bases wouldn't be too happy about their lotto pick being used in such a manner.

Neither youngin has been producing much in europe but they're still prospects that have time to impress the scouts. Nemanja has the Nike Hoops Summit coming up and if he performs well, he should declare. 

Bottom line, if both these guys and Green (switched to the 2005 draftcity mock) come out, we're looking at a lot of potential and a lot of depth in this lotto/first round. I don't know if the big euros would fit into Babcock's scheme (in fact I'm pretty sure they wouldn't) but they increase the chances of us getting a star type player with our first pick...draftcity has Green up to number 4...


----------



## ansoncarter

haven't see Blowuptheraptors since Duke lost. Hope he didnt' do anything drastic


----------



## butr

ansoncarter said:


> haven't see Blowuptheraptors since Duke lost. Hope he didnt' do anything drastic


Been out of town. More later.


----------



## butr

Duke deserved what they got. More BS from the refs though. Will be interesting to see what Shelden does.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Nemanja is still a very intriguing prospect. could he fit at SF next to Bosh? he certainly has one of the highest upsides if he doesn't pull out of the draft this year. i know he hasn't been performing in europe but that's the way it goes with this type of prospect, often-times. if Gerald Green is gone, I'd like for Nemanja to be a good enough prospect to warrant a pick. he probably isn't, but i'd like it if he were.

It's hard to say where Gerald Green is going to end up but he's the guy I want right now. I just hope the Utah GM doesn't depart from his usual ways just because he has such a high pick for once (ie shoot for a star-type black player) cause all the other teams between us and them are pretty loaded with wing athletes (that is if New York isn't in there).

However, if we did end up with Felton or Deron with our first pick, it looks like Warrick or Shelden would be waiting with our second. Who knows, maybe Nemanja could stay in and slip too and we could stash him in europe?

Or hey, maybe Leni-Ukic is the combo guard that Babcock wants with our second pick?

Lorbek is a guy we should be looking at with our second rounder but he might be gone by then. http://draftcity.com/dcdaily.php?p=245

man, this draft business is going to chew me up inside from across the atlantic...i need a job.

also, holy ****. the Cavs somehow gave the Bobcats our pick AND their pick? they could be stacked before too long.

Chris Paul
Rudy Fernandez
Gerald Wallace
Okafor
Brezec

and cap room and our pick coming up. we're going to have some major company in the youth development department.


----------



## kirk_2003

what you think of giving the PHILLY pick we own to DENVER in return for their 2 picks?


----------



## butr

kirk_2003 said:


> what you think of giving the PHILLY pick we own to DENVER in return for their 2 picks?


If they would like it, I might LOVE it if I knew who was left.


----------



## ansoncarter

I don't want a guy called Lorbek on our team


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> Yeah, Deron Williams is looking like a prime candidate for our second pick if we don't go for a guard with our first. Don't really think he'll last past the lotto though (stupid orlando :curse: ).


He has played extremely well on O. I did however see him get torched and blown by on a few occasions. I suppose that will be weighed against his wonderful O skills. I won't hate the pick at all, but I also don't want to hear cries for a perimeter defender.


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

I REALLY want Gerald Green, and seems like the raps are interested in drafting him too. Aren't we? I swear I remember an interview in this thread saying that he was the Raps favorite to be drafted or something. Scary thing is Boston is also interested, and I'm scared they're going to try and move up the draft to try and draft him :curse:  :uhoh: Also Deron Williams wont fall that far for us. He's going to be a top 5 or top 10 pick. No way he drops to our second pick. I just want Gerald Green to be drafted by us and I'm happy.


----------



## rapsfan4life

STOCK WATCH FOR THIS WEEK:

http://nbadraft.net/stockwatch009.asp

here is the summary

UP: Deron williams
Channing frye
Luther head 
Hassan Adams
Fran Garcia
Taquan Dean 
Sean May 
Rashad McCants 
Alando Tucker 
Shannon Brown 
Maurice Ager 
Randolph Morris 

Falling: Salim Stoudamire 
Jawad Williams 
Kelenna Azubuike 
Gerald Green


----------



## macro6

The players who I want in this year's draft (who should be available at our position) -

Gerald Green
Joey Graham
Chris Taft
Raymond Felton
Deron Williams
Jerett Jack

any of those 2 would make me happy.

I just hope Babcock will pick the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE and not by need or get burned(see Hoffa).

With all the bad moves made by Babcock this year, I'm just going to keep my expectation low for this year's draft. I wouldnt be surprise if Babcock pulls another of one of those "WTF was he thinking!?" moves again.


----------



## ansoncarter

nbadraftnet says of Green...

"His stock has obviously taken a hit. Most feel he is in the 15-20 range at this point, and will need a big McDonald's game to stay in the draft."

are they friggin kidding?? Last years game was more wideopen than an NBA allstar game. Mostly a bunch of guys dunking, and JR Smith throwing up 3's from halfcourt. There were probably slamball players involved somehow too.

I can't believe such a reputable website just said that. I'm listening to draftcity from now on


----------



## butr

kirk_2003 said:


> what you think of giving the PHILLY pick we own to DENVER in return for their 2 picks?


Actually, Denver has a lot of Capspace this summer, like Phx last year, they may want to save some of that dough. I might prefer to take one of them for the DEN 2006 we own.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

A little dunk comp action from our man Green http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=135 :angel: 

but i'm starting to think that he won't be around for us...  ...or won't he?

top 3 should probably go Marvin, Bogut, Paul (or has he slipped a little) to Atlanta, Charlotte, and NOH. Hornets could take him, especially if they fell to 4th, same goes for Charlotte- both can develop him on the fly and can afford to lose some games.

then comes Utah...Green doesn't seem like a Utah kind of pick but they did take Deshawn Stevenson a couple years back and they need to bring some excitement back to the team. However, they do have a number of 2/3s already and weakness at PG and C.

GS already has Jrich and Pietrus. I'd count them out.

Next comes Portland, whose fans won't stop *****ing about their need for a SG but they should look for a veteran to counterbalance their immense amount of youthful talent already waiting in the wings (pardon the pun). They should be looking for a backup point/combo guard (which might mean trading down) or keep stockpiling big men.

Lastly you have the Bucks and Knicks who could both end up drafting before us. However, I think both of these teams would be wise to go big if there's anything worthwhile on the board. Bucks will be looking to keep Redd and Green would do nothing to help their chances. The Knicks have two late first rounders to grab athletic wingers and should be looking to pair Taft with Sweetney.

So, we've got a chance. If Green lasts past #4, he could be in our grasp...or he might not be worth our first pick at all.


----------



## Ballyhoo

Good analysis SkywalkerAC. However, portland has drafted highschoolers in their last two drafts (Telfair and Outlaw), so they might have a penchant for HS kids. Their fans certainly seem pretty interested in drafting him, but of course that doesn't mean management is.
http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=152441
http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=152480

The Knicks have Thomas at the helm, and his best move ever as a GM was drafting T-Mac. He may be tempted to recreate that with Green, who has drawn some T-Mac comparisons. 

I just hope we win the lotto and draft Marvin .


----------



## bigbabyjesus

NBADraft.net are idiots. Gerald Green's stock fell on the basis that his shot wasn't falling, and he got outplayed by Brandon Rush? Please. I take more warrant into what draftcity.com said, and they said that he didn't play great, but played well considering his shot wasn't falling.

haha, i'm sure a guys stock falls 7-10 picks because he had an off night in an all-star game. morons. 

I think Portland is really high on him as well, I'm not just listening to their fans on this site, but supposedly John Nash likes Green a lot. Im hoping that the Blazers end up with the highest pick possible so that they feel that Green would be too much of a stretch and go with the best player available. Also the Knicks would probably pick Green if their ahead of us (hopefully not), because we all know Isiahs obsession with athletic wing players, but if Taft is there, I can't see him passing him up either.

and blowinuptheraps, i think deron could be a great defender on the next level assuming he gets rid of all that baby fat. he has deceptive foot speed, the only real thing holding him back is his chubbiness, which he should shed once he gets with trainers over the summer.


----------



## butr

SkywalkerAC said:


> Nemanja is still a very intriguing prospect. could he fit at SF next to Bosh? he certainly has one of the highest upsides if he doesn't pull out of the draft this year. i know he hasn't been performing in europe but that's the way it goes with this type of prospect, often-times. if Gerald Green is gone, I'd like for Nemanja to be a good enough prospect to warrant a pick. he probably isn't, but i'd like it if he were.


http://www.hoopshype.com/interviews/aleksandrov_sierra.htm


----------



## ansoncarter

how many 7' small forwards actually end up at sf. I can't think of too many. Least not consistently

Draftcity makes it sounds like he's playing sf simply because he isn't strong enough yet. He's struggling with his outside shot too. He sounds like another pf playing small out of necessity

Still probably an incredible talent. I remember last year people were going insane over him. If Mitchell's style is here to stay, maybe Babcock isn't looking for specialists anyways. Already mentioned the combo guard. Maybe he prefers the versatility. Guy sounds too much like Bosh to me


----------



## Turkish Delight

Worth a shot in the second round?




> A historic first will soon be made in the dynamic and exciting world of sports when a young and ambitious Iranian athlete will join the prestigious NBA basketball league in the next two months. NBA
> 
> Jaber Rouzbahani is 7 feet 5 inches tall, weighs 260 pounds, with an 8-foot wingspan. He is a shot blocker with a soft shooting touch.
> 
> ...
> Rouzbahani can grab the rim flat-footed and dunk on his tiptoe. He is a kid from the historical Iranian city of Isfahan. Born in 1986, Rouzbahani started playing less than four years ago and plays for Isfahan's Zob Ahan. The Iranian teen played China's Yao Ming in an Asian tournament last year and held him to 15 points - about half of what Yao was averaging in the tourney. The Chinese is currently playing in the NBA.
> 
> Rouzbahani played at the World Junior Championships in Thessaloniki, Greece last summer in front of NBA scouts, averaging 12 points and 8 rebounds per game and an eye-opening 7 blocks, leading the entire tournament.


http://www.albawaba.com/en/news/180326


----------



## SkywalkerAC

*rest assured...*

We are going to be getting a very good player with our first pick. I'm 85% (completely arbitrary of course) that we will be selecting either Gerald Green, Raymond Felton, or Deron Williams.

Our second pick is hard to guage but one of Shelden Williams or Hakim Warrick would make sense, especially if one of the point guards is taken with our first pick. 

I'm sorry to keep going over and over this but this draft is starting to look very deep and could therefore be the most vital draft in our franchise's short history, having two first rounders and a good shot at picking up a player in the second round.

Perhaps we'll see Deron and Ray showdown in the tourney finals? They may not guard each other (if the final four goes as I expect) but it would be a great matchup nonetheless.

Somehow I think Green sounds too good to be true (ie last until the Raptors' pick) but you never know. Spoiled by Vince Carter, I think Raptor fans are craving a return to the highlight reels and Mr Green could provide that. 

On the flip side, Warrick could be equally exciting when paired with the right PG. You know he's working like crazy on his ball-handling skills and his jumper right now but all he really needs is to recieve the ball in the lane. Babcock is looking for length and athleticism at the 3; workouts should determine if Warrick has the defensive tools to warrant a pick. 

I thought there would be a lack of big men in this draft but it looks like I was wrong. For the first time ever, the 4/5 isn't an area of immense weakness going into the draft but our second unit could use some size. 

Nate Robinson's coming out. He's my favourite for our second rounder if we land Green with our first.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

*Re: rest assured...*

Yeah, I'm beginning to think that Green will be gone by our pick, also.. He seems like a pretty good fit for Portland, and all the fans seem positive he won't slip past their pick, but you never know. 

But it looks as though we could easily get Felton, Deron or Jack with our first pick. Theres no doubt about that. If we don't go swingman with our first pick (I think Green is the only swingman warranted a pick that high other than the guys out of our range) we have to take a point guard, and our second pick will more than likely be a swingman. There are a few interesting prospects who will be available with our Philly pick.

I'd rank them like this:

Hakim Warrick
Joey Graham
Antoine Wright
Francisco Garcia
Danny Granger

None of them really scream out future all-star to me except maybe Warrick.. but I invision a lot of them as solid role players. We could also go after a guy like Rudy Fernandez who I'm intrigued with, but I think we're looking for a SF to go along with our PG, not an undersized SG. It would be GREAT for us if Rodney Carney declared, I haven't heard anything about him declaring, but he would be a borderline lottery pick as of now.


----------



## ballocks

these picks are looking really important. like _really_ important. almost more important than our '96 first rounder. 

in fact...

(i just hope babcock's scouting like a maniac.)

peace


----------



## bigbabyjesus

any of you guys that follow and get to watch a lot of college basketball, high school, or international basketball.. and have interest in being apart of a new draft site affiliated with basketballboards.net.. 

contact the admin. @ to become a part of it! [email protected]

we need more people!


----------



## lucky777s

Couldn't believe all the Sean May hype last night.

Don't be fooled by May. His impact in the NBA will be minimal. Think Lonnie Baxter and Mel Ely. They had a great run in the NCAA tourney with Maryland. Small college C's who are too slow to guard PF's in the pros and don't have the length to get rebounds even when they have great position. Whoever picks May in the top 10 will be disappointed in my opinion. He would have to really work on his body and get quicker and leaner. But he seems to have one of those 'get fat quick' bodies. Dangerous.

May basically ran over smaller and weaker guys in the low post and didn't get called for the fouls. Not impressed.

The battle between Deron Williams and Felton was the big show last night. Deron has proved to be the best PG. Felton is a shooter who can handle the ball, not a PG. Deron made his teammates better while Felton just makes simple passes to the wing and let them create. Deron is better defensively. Better passer.

Williams is a PG who can score. Felton is a scorer who can play a little point. Rafer is similar to Felton in some ways.

Marv Williams didn't look so hot either. Will take him a couple of years to be an impact player in the pros. Still, I think winning this title cements his coming out. Things can't get any better for him, its the perfect scenario.


----------



## speedythief

Once upon a time I read all over the internet that Deron was a slow-footed defender. He's been excellent this tournament. If he lost a little bit of weight he could be an even better player in that regard.


----------



## butr

After the last 2 games I will not be pissed if we take Deron.

Kelenna Azubuike will declare w/o an agent. Hoopshype.

I just hope Babcock does not, er uh, MESS the picks up.


----------



## ansoncarter

best way not to screw up the draft is pay San Antonio to make our picks for us

or trick them into telling us. Call them and be like "um, wouldn't it be great if you guys had the 8th pick. Who do you think you'd take?"


----------



## SkywalkerAC

speedythief said:


> Once upon a time I read all over the internet that Deron was a slow-footed defender. He's been excellent this tournament. If he lost a little bit of weight he could be an even better player in that regard.


Much like Hoffa, he seems like a very good athlete for his size that could really benefit from a rigorous NBA training regiment, not just to lose weight but to mold him into a basketball machine. A good comparison is probably Jamal Tinsley, who came into the league a little pudgy as well; however, I've never seen Tinsley rise up for an alley-oop and he certainly wasn't much of a perimeter shooter coming into the league.

I really think Utah could be torn between Deron and Gerald and the one they don't choose could fall to us.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

lucky777s said:


> The battle between Deron Williams and Felton was the big show last night. Deron has proved to be the best PG. Felton is a shooter who can handle the ball, not a PG. Deron made his teammates better while Felton just makes simple passes to the wing and let them create. Deron is better defensively. Better passer.
> 
> Williams is a PG who can score. Felton is a scorer who can play a little point. Rafer is similar to Felton in some ways.


I think your statement is incredibly wrong when you say Felton is not a PG. The guy is a pure PG and loves to get his teammates involved. I would even say that Felton is the better passer, and despite being smaller has better vision than Deron as well. Yes, Raymonds decision making is questionable at times, but that is usually when he tries to do too much, whether it being giving up the ball when he has a shot, or taking a quick shot. Deron has him in that department, but Deron does take quick shots a lot too.

I don't know how much you've watched of Felton, but those statements are completely wrong about Ray Ray IMO. I think after one or two years of learning the point guard position a little more he will be an absolute stud.


----------



## Turkish Delight

Julius Hodge with our 2nd round pick anyone?


----------



## ansoncarter

this is from Taylor Bell of the Chicago Sun-Times: 

"Last spring, Green played in two major tournaments and couldn't understand why college coaches and scouts criticized his performance. Most agreed he was an outstanding shooter with enormous athleticism. But he couldn't rebound or defend or handle the ball.

"If you want to be really good, call me and we'll go to work,'' Nelson told Green.

Green called Nelson at midnight.

"I really want to be good,'' he said.

A week later, they went into the gym. Green worked out twice a day, at 6 a.m. and 6 at night. He stayed until he could execute all the drills eight to 10 times in a row without making a mistake. Later, at the Reebok-ABCD camp in New Jersey, he vowed he would be the MVP -- and he was.

Since then, Green has taken the country by storm. No one has been more impressive."

(not exactly sure what the rules are for quoting material or giving proper credit)


----------



## butr

Turkish Delight said:


> Julius Hodge with our 2nd round pick anyone?


If he was there I would give serious thought to him.


----------



## Turkish Delight

blowuptheraptors said:


> If he was there I would give serious thought to him.


That's the thing, I doubt he'll be available that late. 
I wouldn't be surprised if he gets picked late in the 1st round.


----------



## macro6

How about Sean Banks in the 2nd round?


----------



## vi3t_boi11

macro6 said:


> How about Sean Banks in the 2nd round?


He's definately a lottery talent but because of off court issues his stock has taken a major hit


----------



## rapsfan4life

Sean banks is interesting because he is such a freaking headcase, but than so was trevor ariza and he slipped to the 2nd because of it and is a player now.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Trevor Ariza didn't slip to the second round because he was a head case, unless you know something we all don't. He slipped because he was a raw, skinny guy who couldn't do anything but dunk and defend. 

But Sean Banks would definetly be worth a look in the second round. I am a huge fan of Sean Banks, but he is such a moron. 

Shawne Williams would be the much better choice. I know theres not much risk with a second rounder, but Shawne would probably pay off more than Banks would.


----------



## MonkeyBallZJr

vi3t_boi11 said:


> He's definately a lottery talent but because of off court issues his stock has taken a major hit


What off court issues? if he is a lottery talent, then noway that he will drop to the second round, unless he pulls a NVE.


----------



## rapsfan4life

vigilante said:


> Trevor Ariza didn't slip to the second round because he was a head case, unless you know something we all don't. He slipped because he was a raw, skinny guy who couldn't do anything but dunk and defend.
> 
> But Sean Banks would definetly be worth a look in the second round. I am a huge fan of Sean Banks, but he is such a moron.
> 
> Shawne Williams would be the much better choice. I know theres not much risk with a second rounder, but Shawne would probably pay off more than Banks would.



Well if my remember correctly, he gave ben howland some trouble at ucla for a selfish agenda planning type of personality, he was supposedly ignoring his studies and barely remained eligible to play. I remember the rumors of him basically walking off the team because howland didn't want him to test the waters cuz he wasn't close to ready so instead he was supposedly unwelcome at ucla anymore. But not a head case i guess by your definition. I still do find it odd for a raw freshman to leave college to be a mid 2nd rounder in the L. Peace


----------



## rapsfan4life

Original ScarFace said:


> What off court issues? if he is a lottery talent, then noway that he will drop to the second round, unless he pulls a NVE.



Where have u been all year, the guy is insane


----------



## rapsfan4life

SO we now have picks 9 and 16 right??

Also how do u guys feel about Antoine Wright??


----------



## osman

rapsfan4life said:


> SO we now have picks 9 and 16 right??
> 
> Also how do u guys feel about Antoine Wright??



I would rather have Brandon Rush, he recently stated that he will declare for the draft.


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

WHY DOESN'T TORONTO START LOSING :curse: ARGHH! WE NEED TO GET A HIGHER PICK THAN 9 IF WE WANT A CHANCE AT SOME SERIOUS TALENT! Sorry for the caps lol. Although I say we let the rookies play now, and start benching Rose, and Marshall. We don't need to win right now, we're technically out of the playoffs. We need a higher pick. Lets hope Golden state continues there awesome run, and Carter and the Nets can make the playoffs bumping Philly!

Go Cavs!
Go Nets!

I can't believe I just said that


----------



## rapsfan4life

Ok well, if you haven't noticed we have been losing, its just that other teams are losing too. LOL


BUT ny just upset the pacers at the buzzer which is awesome, we are 1 game in front of them and milwauke, also i must correct myself GS is technically in front of us so we have the 8th and 16 picks. GS faces the spurs tonight, so damn!!!! :curse: but they will no doubt win more than us down the stretch. 

As for the philly pick, it seems we are destined for Jack. 16 is a good place to draft Jack as people will not whine and say 13 or 14 is to high. As for the 8th, its a big mystery right now.

Let me throw out a name for u guys: Andrea Bagnani, he is expected to declare and is an awesome young prospect, remember he played in Toronto in that exebition game and lit us up :clap: He is supposedly a beast in europe currently in the euro final 4 and is improving his stock as we speak. Unfortunately draftcity's new mock has him at #4 :curse: but it drops someone else to us. :clap: 

P.S. sorry for all the smilies, i have to show my emotions, LOL


----------



## VCFSO2000

Raptors better redeem themselves after that Hoffa debacle...the only team that had a top 10 pick and the guy they drafted didn't provide instant help.

When his name was called...I remember Tom Tolbert saying..."Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuut?????"


----------



## SkywalkerAC

VCFSO2000 said:


> Raptors better redeem themselves after that Hoffa debacle...the only team that had a top 10 pick and the guy they drafted didn't provide instant help.
> 
> When his name was called...I remember Tom Tolbert saying..."Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuut?????"


You do realize that the 10th pick is a top 10 pick, don't you? Luke Jackson was the 10th selection, in case you didn't know. Following that, you had the 4th and 5th big men selected, both of whom are too raw and underdeveloped physically to get much playing time. With Hoffa in the fold we won't be FORCED to select a big man this year and gives us the option of going for a different kind of frontcourt player, already having our bruiser in place, if there's a good one on the table. 

For example, I don't know if we could pass up on Marty Vicious if he's still on the board for us. If we didn't have Hoffa, we'd be forced to select the best center prospect (IMO), throwing him to the wolves, whether he got playing time or not. Nothing wrong with stockpiling high potential big men but you need to have a legit center in place (on a rookie contract preferably). I'm just glad that we have the luxury of not HAVING to go big, something we really didn't have the last two drafts.

Speaking of Marty Vicious, he would give us the option of a very interesting big line for the future-

Rafer
Antoine Wright
Bosh
Marty
Hoffa

He wouldn't be ready for a few years though, so he doesn't seem fit for our pick but you never know.

If I'm Babcock I'm definitely tempted to go for a frontcourt player with our first pick. A big part of his decision should be based on his confidence in Hoffa and his ability to play meaningful minutes. If Hoffa will be ready and able for 30 minutes next year, and Bosh logs 40 (a bit high but he's too good to keep on the bench for much longer than that), that only leaves 26 minutes for the best of the rest (ie Pape and Bonner). If you think Hoffa's only a 20 minute kind of guy for the future, the need for an additional PF/C goes way up.

PF/Cs appear to be out in spades this year. With Hoffa and Bosh, we don't need a true center but someone 6'10 and up would be nice. You've got Vicious, Taft, Vasquez, Petro, (maybe) Sheldon, and Villenueva. But does this trump the need for athleticism and potential at the point and the wing? Going to be a tough call for Babcock. I would think Babcock would have let Hoffa show his stuff but it looks like A-train and Sow are the guys that need more evaluation at this point.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

and perhaps Bargnani has the potential to be a legitimate candidate for our first pick. draftcity has moved him ahead of Gerald Green for some reason.


----------



## VCFSO2000

VCFSO2000 said:


> Raptors better redeem themselves after that Hoffa debacle...the only team that had a top 10 pick and the guy they drafted didn't provide instant help.
> 
> When his name was called...I remember Tom Tolbert saying..."Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuut?????"


One thing I CAN say to recognize my faults in that statement is that big men take much longer to develop.

But when a guy,from the start of the year, is asked to rebound,defend and set picks he can't seem to do it correctly. It makes his development process slow up big time...

We haven't even gotten to his offensive game and he's already shown his incomptency


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Two guys I'd love for the Raptors to get in the second round are Jackie Manuel and/or Aaron Miles. 

I don't know about Miles because we probably will draft a PG in the first round. But if we don't, we should look long and hard at this guy. Exactly the type of point guard we need. Very similar player to Chris Duhon.. lockdown defender, and as much pass first as you can get.

And then theres Jackie Manuel. Another lockdown defender, who is extremely athletic. We have such a dire need for both of those things. He could be a good offensive player with his athletic ability, but being on UNC he should be used to not getting the ball. Would be the perfect role player.

A second round draft of Jackie Manuel or Aaron Miles and Shawne Williams or Sean Banks would really excite me


----------



## speedythief

VCFSO2000 said:


> One thing I CAN say to recognize my faults in that statement is that big men take much longer to develop.
> 
> But when a guy,from the start of the year, is asked to rebound,defend and set picks he can't seem to do it correctly. It makes his development process slow up big time...
> 
> We haven't even gotten to his offensive game and he's already shown his incomptency


He has a long way to go, and not a big window of time in which to be a good player in the end, but there's not much more we can do than hope for the best. What's done is done.

Had Babcock planned on trading Vince in the summer, which should've been his priority, we could've drafted Iguodala, Jefferson, whoever. It's too bad that he was looking to keep VC and thus necessitated drafting a big man.

But whenever I wonder what could've been with that pick, I look Bosh's progression playing a lot of power forward. We might not have been able to have that had we not drafted a cente. Those dozen or so minutes a game Bosh doesn't have to play centre could've made the difference between him playing 81 or so games or getting another injury.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

vigilante said:


> Trevor Ariza didn't slip to the second round because he was a head case, unless you know something we all don't. He slipped because he was a raw, skinny guy who couldn't do anything but dunk and defend.


THere were definetely a few issues with Ariza. The fact that he left after his freshmen year despite their being a decebt possibility of going undrafted, also suggests there were a few problems.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

vigilante said:


> Two guys I'd love for the Raptors to get in the second round are Jackie Manuel and/or Aaron Miles.
> 
> I don't know about Miles because we probably will draft a PG in the first round. But if we don't, we should look long and hard at this guy. Exactly the type of point guard we need. Very similar player to Chris Duhon.. lockdown defender, and as much pass first as you can get.
> 
> And then theres Jackie Manuel. Another lockdown defender, who is extremely athletic. We have such a dire need for both of those things. He could be a good offensive player with his athletic ability, but being on UNC he should be used to not getting the ball. Would be the perfect role player.
> 
> A second round draft of Jackie Manuel or Aaron Miles and Shawne Williams or Sean Banks would really excite me



I would like the Manuel pick. The type of guy that can definetely play in a rotation if you can put 2 scorers on the floor at all times.

Miles does nothing for me. Despite the assist numbers he is not a great playmaker - he is basically Jacque Vaughn, but not nearly as good. Unlike Jacque, he tended to fold down the stretch become a horrible decision maker down the stretch. Nothing impresses me about his game.

Don't know much about Williams.

Banks - why not I guess, he was the best freshmen in America last year. It's a second round pick. If he acts up cut him right away.


----------



## macro6

Chris Paul declares for the draft if you believe NBAdraft.net

http://www.nbadraft.net/draftbuzz032.asp



Looks like theres a good chance Raymond Felton could fall to us.


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

macro6 said:


> Chris Paul declares for the draft if you believe NBAdraft.net
> 
> http://www.nbadraft.net/draftbuzz032.asp
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like theres a good chance Raymond Felton could fall to us.


I don't like Felton one bit. I wouldn't take him with our first pick.


----------



## rapsfan4life

I love manuel, he is a freak and supposedly went of at the PIT!!!!! Read the draftcity recaps, he killed on O and D. Lockdown defender we so sorely need in my opinion, I would like NATE Robinson and Jackie, that's my perfect 2nd round


----------



## butr

speedythief said:


> Had Babcock planned on trading Vince in the summer, which should've been his priority, we could've drafted Iguodala, Jefferson, whoever. It's too bad that he was looking to keep VC and thus necessitated drafting a big man.


I had been harping on this. Others were with me. Vince fans here were not until he bailed. Why couldn't Rob and MLSE see the writing on the wall before the 2004 draft?

****!


----------



## JuniorNoboa

His priority should have been drafting the best player available.


----------



## macro6

JuniorNoboa said:


> His priority should have been drafting the best player available.


^^^^^


----------



## rapsfan4life

So will anybody be angry if we take Bagnani??????? I love this guy, his stock rising like an animal in europe as he seems to bwe dominant.

Remember when he took it at BOSH in the Preseason :eek8: this guy is my new pick for our 1st pick, please declare


----------



## JuniorNoboa

I don't really like commenting on European players. Reason being that our image is often based on what people say they remind them of.

I have seen some of these same people make poor comparisons for some American players I have seen.

If we draft a European, I will not judge whether it is a good or bad pick, (I just hope the scout knows what he is doing)


----------



## speedythief

rapsfan4life said:


> So will anybody be angry if we take Bagnani??????? I love this guy, his stock rising like an animal in europe as he seems to bwe dominant.
> 
> Remember when he took it at BOSH in the Preseason :eek8: this guy is my new pick for our 1st pick, please declare


Don't know much about him. What is it you like about him?

And I bet Turkish Delight would rather have Ersan Ilyasova than any other international prospect, for obvious reasons.


----------



## rapsfan4life

He was absolutely fearless going at guys like Bosh and Vince at the time, he drove, slashed, didn't miss shots and was everywhere, played with a chip on his shoulder and apparently that is what he is doing now in the europe final 4.

Doesn't anybody else remember the preseason game besides me????


----------



## rapsfan4life

Read the bargnani comments by italian bball fan, he would obviously know.

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2124208#post2124208&conly=


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I was also one of the fans on this board that thought Babcock should have traded Vince on draft day. A lot of the fans were complaining that he should have waited longer, but I think he waited too long already, and did the right thing in not risking any more dip in his trade value.

As for Bargnani.. I haven't seen much of him, but I know that he is a PF. There is no way we choose a PF with that high of a pick.. why? And if you think he can play SF, from what I've heard/little I've seen, he is much better suited for PF.


----------



## rapsfan4life

I've actually read and heard on this very board, that he is more suited for SF. Just ask that italian guy or read his posts in the above link in this thread. 
Anyway i remember him playing at Sf against us, and basically schooling guys like Jalen and poor Lammond Murray, but they dont have the best defence LOL


----------



## lucky777s

Bargnani won me over in that pre-season game with the Raps. Best player on the floor.

We could not possibly let him pass us by with out first pick unless it is for a potential home run with Gerald Green. 

Bosh and Bargnani could work very well together in my opinion. Doesn't matter who you call the SF and who is the PF. Just match up defensively as best you can. You will get great weak side shotblocking from the other guy. If Jalen and Donny can play with Bosh then Bargnani can definitely fill those roles.

Now if the Raps have a choice between Bargnani and somebody like Marty or Splitter who could play C more effectively that might be a close call. Green would be the other guy you take over him.

But you don't take Taft or ANY PG over Bargnani who will be a special player.

Bargnani with the 8/9 pick
Best wing avail with the 15 pick (Granger, Wright, RudyF)
PG with the first second round pick (Nate, Roberson, Ewing, whoever)

and then the final 2nd round pick you either look for a miracle with some Euro 7 footer or go with a college guard that slips down like Hodge, Ronald Ross, BJ Elder, Luther Head, or whoever falls. Like Marquis Daniels a couple of years ago.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

If we go for a 3/4/5 like Bargnani with the first pick we need to think guard for our second pick. With Bargnani we'd be set at the 3/4/5. I guess guys like Granger can play at the 2 but I want someone who can handle the ball and penetrate. Man it would be nice if Jack dropped. Leni-Ukic might be a good fit with a running and gunning team though, he seems to be the next best PG after Jack.

And holy **** there is a lot of size in this draft now, 4/5s.

I doubt we go big with our first pick for anyone except Bargnani. If we go PG with our first, another SF we have to look at is Ersan Ilyasova. 

Man I'm glad to have 2 picks in this draft. And with a few of these guys dropping out and no age limit (minor league seems the preferred direction), next year will probably be decent too.


----------



## ballocks

a lot of interesting quotes in the discussion, i think this thread is becoming pretty high-quality. what i wanted to chirp in with was the following:



lucky777s said:


> Bosh and Bargnani could work very well together in my opinion. Doesn't matter who you call the SF and who is the PF. Just match up defensively as best you can. You will get great weak side shotblocking from the other guy. If Jalen and Donny can play with Bosh then Bargnani can definitely fill those roles.
> ...
> 
> But you don't take Taft or ANY PG over Bargnani who will be a special player.


that's interesting and i never really thought about it like that. the more i think about it the more i realize that i wouldn't mind taking a PF with our high pick (provided he's the best talent available), chris bosh or not. i think a lot of us oversimplify teams in the pros (myself included here) and then promote moves to "fill holes" but i'm finding it hard not to believe that an effective way of filling holes is by indiscriminately coveting talent. 

i mean, seriously, if there were a team of 5 karl malones on the floor i think a lot of fans would, at first glance, think of it as hardly a diversified portfolio. but after thinking about it for awhile, i think we'd all come around- i honestly think that that would be a pretty good lineup! contrary to popular belief, i think "the whole" might indeed be _at least_ "the sum of the parts", if not more, and that's paramount.

at the end of the day, it isn't all about fit. i think fit might actually be somewhat overrated these days. so while i haven't seen bargnani play at all, i'd be more than happy if we took him and he proved himself as the best player available at that spot. 

still, i'm dreaming about chris paul running the point in toronto for 10 years. i haven't seen bargnani yet but i just can't imagine he's more golden than paul. this kid is an exciting college prospect, he's a fierce leader, and i'd love to win the lotto in order to get him. that said, i don't know what our chances are- even if we won the lottery we'd probably take someone else- but i think paul is the "best" talent in the draft pool this year. i hope he declares.

so anyway, i don't know anymore. y'all seem to be more familiar with bargnani and the turkish kid than i am, and seem to be raving about their skillsets, so i'm starting to get pumped for the level of talent available. like i said, i haven't seen many of these europeans in action and haven't seen any of the high schoolers, but if their hyped values are justified we might actually get an asset of substance in june.

and i don't even care what position he plays... as long as he can _play_.

peace


----------



## butr

Just in case some of you missed this on Shelden.

http://goduke.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040305aac.html


----------



## speedythief

blowuptheraptors said:


> Just in case some of you missed this on Shelden.
> 
> http://goduke.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040305aac.html


What is his wingspan, do you know? Blocking 122 shots is pretty incredible but I'd like to know if he's got the length for it to translate to the NBA game.


----------



## ansoncarter

Nike Camp Player Observations
Contributed to IlliniBoard by Todd Parker


Note: The actual height, weight, and wingspan measurements were taken on July 5th and in the players bare feet.

Shelden Williams 6-8, 228 (wingspan 7-3)
Big time player. Showed the ability to dominate in the low blocks and also displayed his versatility to put the ball on the floor on the wing. He is a force on the boards and constantly battles for the ball. It's obvious why so many high majors want this guy, he'd be an immediate impact type player. Camp counselor, Robert Archibald, was assigned to Shelden's team and they were seen conversing quite a bit!


(not sure what year it is, and I'm too lazy to look it up. Not even sure how reliable it is. Heres the website it anyone wants to verify anything)

http://news.illiniboard.com/stories/nike_camp.php


----------



## speedythief

ansoncarter said:


> Nike Camp Player Observations
> Contributed to IlliniBoard by Todd Parker
> 
> 
> Note: The actual height, weight, and wingspan measurements were taken on July 5th and in the players bare feet.
> 
> Shelden Williams 6-8, 228 (wingspan 7-3)
> Big time player. Showed the ability to dominate in the low blocks and also displayed his versatility to put the ball on the floor on the wing. He is a force on the boards and constantly battles for the ball. It's obvious why so many high majors want this guy, he'd be an immediate impact type player. Camp counselor, Robert Archibald, was assigned to Shelden's team and they were seen conversing quite a bit!
> 
> 
> (not sure what year it is, and I'm too lazy to look it up. Not even sure how reliable it is. Heres the website it anyone wants to verify anything)
> 
> http://news.illiniboard.com/stories/nike_camp.php


Thanks.

Says it's from 2002, so that's him coming out of high school. ESPN lists him as weighing 250 and standing 6-9 now.

Robert Archibald?! Omen?!


----------



## butr

Nice find. He is certainly more built than before. His arms as you can see are very long which is what allowed him those blocks and gets him to those rebounds. But his insticts are great as well. He's not just a weak side help defender. He gets a lot on the ball.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

*****ing Portland*

I have been keeping up hopes that Gerald Green would slip by Portland as drafting so many wing forwards and highschoolers (green, telfair, just wouldn't make sense but I've come to the realization that it's a great strategy, one I wish we could employ. 

Why get a veteran shooting guard when you can start molding a star shooting guard (or two) from scratch and get a great shot at Greg Oden in the process? You can't tank games in the NBA but there's nothing to stop a GM from putting a VERY young roster together that isn't going to win a lot of games. And the thing is that the Portland audience isn't going to be turned off by a young lineup of:

Telfair
Green
Outlaw
Randolph
Przybilla

and if they want to go Suns style they can play Miles, Patterson and Khryapa at small forward. 

and if they don't get Oden are they screwed? of course not, they already have two capable centers on the roster but you might as well swing for the fences. If they lose out they take Aleksandrov or something.

Could the Raptors do the same thing? I'm afraid it's just not in the cards. We might end up with another top 10 pick but we're not going to be in the running for Oden. We're building up while Portland is still stripping down. 

So, in short, Green is as good as gone...unless Portland decides they want to compete next year. Even then I don't know who they'd take...Deron Williams perhaps?


----------



## rapsfan4life

http://draftcity.com/dcdaily.php?p=277

VAZQUEZ and SPLITTER dominating in europe, I like it


----------



## speedythief

I think I want Deron Williams and Hakim Warrick.
Next week I'll probably change my mind, but I like them both.
It will be tough to get Deron, but I think we can land Warrick.


----------



## Ballyhoo

nbadraft.net now has us taking Nate Robinson in the second round. That's an interesting pick, and something I wouldn't mind seeing.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Ballyhoo said:


> nbadraft.net now has us taking Nate Robinson in the second round. That's an interesting pick, and something I wouldn't mind seeing.


Not unrealistic either, even if we draft Deron Williams with our first pick. We'd still be in need of a lightning-quick penetrator IMO. Less likely if we drafted Felton first. 

I think Mitchell would like the option of running with two guards for long portions of the game. Deron-Rafer; AW; Robinson. Also, a guy like Robinson could really do some damage pick and rolling or cutting for passes from Hoffa. 

Can you imagine? Going from Jalen as our sole PG in 2004 to Skip, AW, Deron Williams, AND Nate Robinson? What's that? AND we have a good frontcourt? The sky would have to be falling.

Seriously though, I'd love to see Deron surrounded by an alley-oop squad of Robinson, Warrick, Bosh, and Sow. sigh

I'm going to stick with that one as my ideal (and realistic) draft- Williams, Warrick, and Robinson. Dynamic "combo" guards (one of which happens to be a PG purist) and our uber-long uber-athletic power small forward. 

Speaking of Warrick, I think he's going to be a guy that is going to get to the line frequently in the NBA, similar to Bosh. Moreover, he'd going to be a constant threat to double teams of Bosh- lurking in the lane for the dish off or the putback. Oh, and I think he'll flourish in the open court.

With those additions it would be hard to keep us out of the playoffs ...but damn the east is looking strong.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

If we don't win the lottery, I really hope Portland does. That looks like the only way we'll get Green if we don't trade up. Because there is no way they'd pick him at #1. 

I'm becoming more and more intrigued by Danny Granger, whos name I haven't seen much in this thread. A small forward with very good athleticism with a good offensive game, and great defensive potential.


----------



## ATLien

vigilante said:


> If we don't win the lottery, I really hope Portland does. That looks like the only way we'll get Green if we don't trade up. Because there is no way they'd pick him at #1.


The draft is two or three months away. Nobody knows who will go top five. Maybe top two or top three, but not five. It is too early.


----------



## speedythief

Maybe I should take back what I said about Vasquez earlier this month.

Fran is currently playing well in the ACB cup. In one game, as reported to us by AMR, he managed 26 points on 11/12 shooting and added 11 rebounds. And unlike many Euro prospects, Vasquez actually plays. A lot.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

speedythief said:


> Maybe I should take back what I said about Vasquez earlier this month.
> 
> Fran is currently playing well in the ACB cup. In one game, as reported to us by AMR, he managed 26 points on 11/12 shooting and added 11 rebounds. And unlike many Euro prospects, Vasquez actually plays. A lot.


He should protect us from Milwaukee (or maybe New York) from stealing one of our prized guard prospects.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Check out the Vazquez videos in my other thread, he seems intruiging because he is dominating his league and probably the best league in europe arguably.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Marvin WIlliams and Sean may have declared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SkywalkerAC

rapsfan4life said:


> Check out the Vazquez videos in my other thread, he seems intruiging because he is dominating his league and probably the best league in europe arguably.


what other thread?


----------



## macro6

GERALD GERALD GERALD!!!!!!!!!1111111one


If Babcock drafts Gerald Green and some how trade up and draft Raymond Felton.... ill be happy... really happy! :biggrin:


----------



## rapsfan4life

SkywalkerAC said:


> what other thread?


http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2153738#post2153738

enjoy


----------



## bigbabyjesus

macro6 said:


> GERALD GERALD GERALD!!!!!!!!!1111111one
> 
> 
> If Babcock drafts Gerald Green and some how trade up and draft Raymond Felton.... ill be happy... really happy! :biggrin:


If we get Green I would go nuts, but I'm split on which point guard I would choose first. I know I would take Deron, Felton, and Jack all before Paul. Bold statement, but I am not a big Paul fan at all. 

I think Deron might be the best point guard for this team though, even though personally I like Jack and Felton better. He can step in and run a team right away, whereas the other two are a little erratic at times, and will take some grooming under a veteran before stepping in. And once Deron sheds some baby fat he will be a monster on the defensive end.


----------



## butr

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031782295530&path=!sports!basketball&s=1037645509220

Sounds like all the Tar Heels are declaring.

Shelden will make a choice by the end of this weekend.


----------



## butr

link 

Sorry.


----------



## macro6

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031782295530&path=!sports!basketball&s=1037645509220
> 
> Sounds like all the Tar Heels are declaring.
> 
> Shelden will make a choice by the end of this weekend.


So would you draft Shelden with our pick or philly's pick?

I have no problem if shelden is drafted with the philly's pick but we be reaching if 
we drafted him with the 7th overall pick.


----------



## MentalPowerHouse

Is Green who we want at #7? If yes, who do we pick if he is picked before us? 

Do we not pick a point guard at #7, hoping that with Deron, Paul, and Felton that Jack will fall to us in the Philly pick?

So other than Green or a PG what are other possibilities at #7?


----------



## rapsfan4life

^ At 7 i'd say: Green, Williams, Bargnani, Splitter off the top of my head, if taft blows minds in workouts i wouldn't be mad if we took him. But there is that Moiso factor.


----------



## butr

macro6 said:


> So would you draft Shelden with our pick or philly's pick?
> 
> I have no problem if shelden is drafted with the philly's pick but we be reaching if
> we drafted him with the 7th overall pick.


I would hope to get him with the Philly pick yes. I would think Splitter, Green, Bargnani or Best PG. But who knows, NBAdraft has Jack going late. If we could get that Denver pick for next years Denver.

That would be Wing, then Shelden then Point. Then 2 2nds. I wish.


----------



## Marvin Williams Jr.

blowuptheraptors said:


> I would hope to get him with the Philly pick yes. I would think Splitter, Green, Bargnani or Best PG. But who knows, NBAdraft has Jack going late. If we could get that Denver pick for next years Denver.
> 
> That would be Wing, then Shelden then Point. Then 2 2nds. I wish.


I wouldn't give up the 2006 Denver pick, especially since it's at 22 this year.

Very good chance it can drop lower next year.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Marvin Williams Jr. said:


> I wouldn't give up the 2006 Denver pick, especially since it's at 22 this year.
> 
> Very good chance it can drop lower next year.


Possible, but if they do well with their two first rounders this year (19+22) they could be a power next year. Still, I don't see the pick being lower than 25 and, like you said, it could easily drop into the teens.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I would be pretty mad if we picked Splitter or Bargnani with our first pick. Both will be PF's in the league. I know you guys were saying that Bosh and either one of those guys could exist, but I don't see it. Neither of those guys can even come close to guarding most of the SF's in the NBA. We would be a much worse defensive team with those guys on the wings.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

vigilante said:


> I would be pretty mad if we picked Splitter or Bargnani with our first pick. Both will be PF's in the league. I know you guys were saying that Bosh and either one of those guys could exist, but I don't see it. Neither of those guys can even come close to guarding most of the SF's in the NBA. We would be a much worse defensive team with those guys on the wings.


I agree, Bosh has more perimeter defensive potential than those guys. However, the main thing is looking for a strong PF/C combo and two 6'11 guys would do quite nicely. Splitter is being billed much more as a center than as a small forward.


----------



## butr

Marvin Williams Jr. said:


> I wouldn't give up the 2006 Denver pick, especially since it's at 22 this year.
> 
> Very good chance it can drop lower next year.


Bird in the Hand, man. Denver is on the way up with Karl. I don't see them getting much worse. And we need the help now. We get a year's headstart by getting the 2005.

That said I don't do it willy nilly. I talk to them about it then say I'll do it conditional to our guy(s) being available there.


----------



## Toxicity

SkywalkerAC said:


> I agree, Bosh has more perimeter defensive potential than those guys.


I don't know Bosh and Tiago Splitter well but i know very well italian Andrea Bargnani. I can tell you he has perimeter skills both in offense and difense... 3 years ago he was 6-8/6-9 (now he's easily 7-0) and played as SG-SF in Italy's 4th division guarding even 6-4, 6-5 guys with good results! The NBA is different i know, but i think Bargnani could do a pretty good job guarding SFs and PFs... has the potential, it's only a matter of experience (he's only 19) and training!


----------



## Marvin Williams Jr.

blowuptheraptors said:


> Bird in the Hand, man. Denver is on the way up with Karl. I don't see them getting much worse. And we need the help now. We get a year's headstart by getting the 2005.
> 
> That said I don't do it willy nilly. I talk to them about it then say I'll do it conditional to our guy(s) being available there.


Wouldn't work.

Why?

With 2 guarenteed contracts at 7 and 16, the Raptors have a full roster. If it's to acquire a pick again in 2005, making it 3 first round picks, it would be counterproductive.

The chances of Denver's pick falling is better than it rising. I doubt we'll see them go all out like they did at the end of this season, going 32-8 or something since Karl taking over. The Raptors have to take the chance, since if you trade it now on the perception of them doing better next year in the standings, you got to think other GM's think the same way and won't be willing to give up much in return for the 2006 pick. 

You take 2 guys this year and 2 next year, plus a total of 3 or so 2nd rounders, who you can develop overseas or in the NBDL, or even on the roster if they do extremely well in camp.

It's not so simple to say trade it for a 2005 pick because we need help now, because whatever you get in return for it won't help us right now anyways.


----------



## butr

Marvin Williams Jr. said:


> Wouldn't work.
> 
> Why?
> 
> With 2 guarenteed contracts at 7 and 16, the Raptors have a full roster. If it's to acquire a pick again in 2005, making it 3 first round picks, it would be counterproductive.
> 
> The chances of Denver's pick falling is better than it rising. I doubt we'll see them go all out like they did at the end of this season, going 32-8 or something since Karl taking over. The Raptors have to take the chance, since if you trade it now on the perception of them doing better next year in the standings, you got to think other GM's think the same way and won't be willing to give up much in return for the 2006 pick.
> 
> You take 2 guys this year and 2 next year, plus a total of 3 or so 2nd rounders, who you can develop overseas or in the NBDL, or even on the roster if they do extremely well in camp.
> 
> It's not so simple to say trade it for a 2005 pick because we need help now, because whatever you get in return for it won't help us right now anyways.


Because Aaron Williams, Lamond or Eric Will can't be moved/bought out?

This is about getting the rebuilding process started not help now. You get a guy you want a year earlier and get him a year of NBA experience in the same time you draft that 2006 rookie.

If this is going to be a deep draft, take advantage of it if possible. If everyone is coming out this year because of the age restriction, who will be there 15+ next year? Denver won't be in the lotto.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

I hope Rob is not afraid to buy out people's contracts. Essentially, I hope he is not influenced by what will be more severe negative feedback from an uneducated, uninformed, and simply a trouble seeking media.


----------



## lucky777s

Eric definitely has some trade value. And expiring contracts like Aaron and Lamond could be valuable filler to make salaries match.

If it comes down to buying out Aaron or Lamond it will definitely be Lamond that gets bought out. Aaron won't cause any locker room fuss.

The press should not be down on Babs for such a move. It will essentially be revenue neutral. You pay LM say 4 mill of the 5 mill he is owed. You fill his spot with a min salary young player from the second round or the NBDL. Overall you actually save a few bucks for MLSE while bringing in a young guy with future potential. Smart move.


----------



## Marvin Williams Jr.

blowuptheraptors said:


> Because Aaron Williams, Lamond or Eric Will can't be moved/bought out?
> 
> This is about getting the rebuilding process started not help now. You get a guy you want a year earlier and get him a year of NBA experience in the same time you draft that 2006 rookie.
> 
> If this is going to be a deep draft, take advantage of it if possible. If everyone is coming out this year because of the age restriction, who will be there 15+ next year? Denver won't be in the lotto.


I'm in favour of moving Aaron, Eric, and Lamond, but realistically you're not going to play whatever rookie you recieve with that #3 1st in this years draft much, bringing him into the NBA and benching him is worse than holding the pick and making a pick next year, when we're in the same situation with 2 firsts.


----------



## butr

Marvin Williams Jr. said:


> I'm in favour of moving Aaron, Eric, and Lamond, but realistically you're not going to play whatever rookie you recieve with that #3 1st in this years draft much, bringing him into the NBA and benching him is worse than holding the pick and making a pick next year, when we're in the same situation with 2 firsts.


If you get a Jarrett Jack or Rudy Fernandez or Joey Graham, are they going to sit on the bench?


----------



## Marvin Williams Jr.

blowuptheraptors said:


> If you get a Jarrett Jack or Rudy Fernandez or Joey Graham, are they going to sit on the bench?


Very likely.

You can't have another rookie on the bench, atleast we'll have more spots open next offseason and you can go over the "needs" prior to the draft. Going into this June, it's evident we'll end up with two of PG, SF, or SG, maybe even a C but I seriously doubt it.

Why throw away another pick in 2006 if you don't even know how Araujo's going to progress?

Hypothetical (but possible) situation...

Say Araujo has a similar sophomore season, and the Raptors realize they may have to draft a centre in the draft in 2006, do you limit your options this June by trading that pick (2006 for 2005) and put a strangle hold on yourself by having 1 pick and possibly drafting a player (centre) too high, or do you keep the 2006 pick in lieu of potentially having to draft a position that's been discovered over the 2005/06 season?

Right now we know that we can use a SF, PG, and a young SG. But next season we may need a C in the event of Araujo turning out to be a bust (50/50)... so you hang onto that second 2006 pick and hope you can get one or maybe trade up for a higher pick.


----------



## ansoncarter

Jarrett Jack has officially declared for the draft!!

here are his projected first year numbers:
9pts 5 assists 
here are his projected first year awards:
DPOY (runner up to warrick) 
ROY (3rd behind Bogut and winner Warrick)
MVP (did not record a single vote)


----------



## Ballyhoo

Now that Sheldon is announced he isn't coming out, do you still want to trade Denver's 2006 pick for one this year? You might be able to get Sheldon next year with that pick, especially if Denver misses the playoffs.


----------



## butr

Marvin Williams Jr. said:


> Very likely.
> 
> You can't have another rookie on the bench, atleast we'll have more spots open next offseason and you can go over the "needs" prior to the draft. Going into this June, it's evident we'll end up with two of PG, SF, or SG, maybe even a C but I seriously doubt it.
> 
> Why throw away another pick in 2006 if you don't even know how Araujo's going to progress?
> 
> Hypothetical (but possible) situation...
> 
> Say Araujo has a similar sophomore season, and the Raptors realize they may have to draft a centre in the draft in 2006, do you limit your options this June by trading that pick (2006 for 2005) and put a strangle hold on yourself by having 1 pick and possibly drafting a player (centre) too high, or do you keep the 2006 pick in lieu of potentially having to draft a position that's been discovered over the 2005/06 season?
> 
> Right now we know that we can use a SF, PG, and a young SG. But next season we may need a C in the event of Araujo turning out to be a bust (50/50)... so you hang onto that second 2006 pick and hope you can get one or maybe trade up for a higher pick.



Lets agree to disagree. I can't see any of those players spending the year on the bench. Period.


----------



## butr

Ballyhoo said:


> Now that Sheldon is announced he isn't coming out, do you still want to trade Denver's 2006 pick for one this year? You might be able to get Sheldon next year with that pick, especially if Denver misses the playoffs.


First, I'm not sure if its optimism or blind faith with people thinking Denver won't make the playoffs next year. I just don't get it. They have two picks to make or trade, some caproom and a committed owner not afraid to pay the MLE into luxury tax levels. What about that team inspires such thoughts? The 3 legit bigs? The star if quirky 3? The hard pushing tough D point?

Shelden is now going to have a monster year. He will have more help and another year to work on his game. The ACC will be relatively weaker with UNC falling off the map. GT too are losing several players. Maryland losing Gilchirst. NC St. loses Hodge.

He is just going to prove to doubters that his O is better than first thought. His Rebounding and D will be maintained if not improved because he won't be alone to fight 2-3 guys for boards.

IMHO there is NO WAY he falls to the range of the Denver pick. I would say lotto for sure now with very definite top 10 possibilities. 

The only way I keep the Denver pick now, is if I don't think my own pick will get him next year and I'll need to package them to move up. But is this management team smart enough to A) target Shelden B) be able to project where he'll go, then plan for that? IDFTS.

This team is such a GD mess that we'll have a similar year next year. Not good enough to make the playoffs, not bad enough to get a great pick.

We are in Basketball ****ing hell and MLSE and Richard ****ing Peddie are Satan.


----------



## Ballyhoo

blowuptheraptors said:


> First, I'm not sure if its optimism or blind faith with people thinking Denver won't make the playoffs next year. I just don't get it. They have two picks to make or trade, some caproom and a committed owner not afraid to pay the MLE into luxury tax levels. What about that team inspires such thoughts? The 3 legit bigs? The star if quirky 3? The hard pushing tough D point?


Optimism . Is Miller signed for next year? Either they lose him or resigning him will take most of their cap room. A 20th and 22nd pick won't produce impact players. However I admit they have a solid team. But look at this this way, they had 49 wins this year, what are the odds they will improve enough to make the pick worse than 22nd? They aren't going to be a top 5 team so at worst the pick is going to drop a few spots. However if a key player gets injured, like cotton-Camby, they could be in real trouble. 

So the trade off is, a 22nd pick this year, in what looks to be a fairly deep draft, or a 12th to 25th pick next year. The downside to waiting looks minimal and the upside potentially high.


----------



## butr

Ballyhoo said:


> Optimism .
> 
> So the trade off is, a 22nd pick this year, in what looks to be a fairly deep draft, or a 12th to 25th pick next year. The downside to waiting looks minimal and the upside potentially high.


This depends, as I said on how deep next year's draft is perceived to be as compared to this one.

Miller is thru 09. Hoopshype has it blank.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Check out bargnani images in the middle of this thread


http://web.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154467&page=2&pp=15 :banana:


----------



## osman

If all the other top PGs are taken, would you draft Roko-Leni Ukic with our second pick if he declares?


----------



## italianBBlover

rapsfan4life said:


> Check out bargnani images in the middle of this thread
> 
> 
> http://web.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154467&page=2&pp=15 :banana:


A curiosity about Andrea: in Italy his nickname is " the wizard" :biggrin:


----------



## rapsfan4life

osman said:


> If all the other top PGs are taken, would you draft Roko-Leni Ukic with our second pick if he declares?



I need to see more of the guy


----------



## Chris Taft

Bargnani has withdrawn from the draft , so that limits your selction down a little bit at the seven slot. I would Target Chris Taft. He is going to be an animal. He suffered his sophmore year due to both the system and the play of Carl Krauser. He is big enoguht at 6'10 260lbs to play center especially in the east. This would allow Chris Bosh to slide to his natural postion of Power Forward.


----------



## butr

Chris Taft said:


> Bargnani has withdrawn from the draft , so that limits your selction down a little bit at the seven slot. I would Target Chris Taft. He is going to be an animal. He suffered his sophmore year due to both the system and the play of Carl Krauser. He is big enoguht at 6'10 260lbs to play center especially in the east. This would allow Chris Bosh to slide to his natural postion of Power Forward.


Or we could just forfeit our 7th selection, you know, either way.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Chris Taft said:


> Bargnani has withdrawn from the draft , so that limits your selction down a little bit at the seven slot. I would Target Chris Taft. He is going to be an animal. He suffered his sophmore year due to both the system and the play of Carl Krauser. He is big enoguht at 6'10 260lbs to play center especially in the east. This would allow Chris Bosh to slide to his natural postion of Power Forward.



actually that's wrong, he hasn't even applied yet so he has been feeling pressure for staying and going by his people. Rumors say he is leaning towards staying but would not be against testing the stock.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

osman said:


> If all the other top PGs are taken, would you draft Roko-Leni Ukic with our second pick if he declares?


No, I'd take Rudy Fernandez over him, who could plays some point. If not I would wait until the second round and select a guy like Aaron Miles. 



blowuptheraptors said:


> Or we could just forfeit our 7th selection, you know, either way.


I don't know. I think a lot of people will regret passing up on him. Remember, Amare dropped in the draft for the exact same reasons people are doubting Taft for now, effort and character problems.


----------



## speedythief

vigilante said:


> I don't know. I think a lot of people will regret passing up on him. Remember, Amare dropped in the draft for the exact same reasons people are doubting Taft for now, effort and character problems.


People didn't get to see much of Amare prior to the draft, though. Most scouts and basketball people have gotten a good look at Taft at Pitt.

It wouldn't break my heart to draft him so long as Babs got another good player with the late pick. Really, come training camp, both of the firsts are going to be treated the same.


----------



## The Mad Viking

lucky777s said:


> Eric definitely has some trade value. And expiring contracts like Aaron and Lamond could be valuable filler to make salaries match.
> 
> If it comes down to buying out Aaron or Lamond it will definitely be Lamond that gets bought out. Aaron won't cause any locker room fuss.
> 
> The press should not be down on Babs for such a move. It will essentially be revenue neutral. You pay LM say 4 mill of the 5 mill he is owed. You fill his spot with a min salary young player from the second round or the NBDL. Overall you actually save a few bucks for MLSE while bringing in a young guy with future potential. Smart move.


:greatjob:


----------



## The Mad Viking

blowuptheraptors said:


> Or we could just forfeit our 7th selection, you know, either way.


:yes:


----------



## lucky777s

I hope Bargnani stays in the draft. I can't see why he wouldn't. No way he falls below 7 in my mind. Raps should give him a guarantee to stay in. Because he likely goes before our pick anyway and drops another nice player into our laps. Or he is the best player on the board for us.

He's ready, no need to wait. And if he's so worried about the buyout money a few spots in the lotto is no big deal compared to getting his first FA contract a year earlier by starting his nba career now.


----------



## butr

vigilante said:


> I don't know. I think a lot of people will regret passing up on him. Remember, Amare dropped in the draft for the exact same reasons people are doubting Taft for now, effort and character problems.


I don't see Taft and Amare in the same league. I love to look at FT% as a big indicator of a lot of things. Taft is under 60% in college. Amare is over 70% in the L. 

I really just don't want him with the 7. There might be decent value at 16 but it all depends on who is there.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

blowuptheraptors said:


> I don't see Taft and Amare in the same league. I love to look at FT% as a big indicator of a lot of things. Taft is under 60% in college. Amare is over 70% in the L.
> 
> I really just don't want him with the 7. There might be decent value at 16 but it all depends on who is there.


I wouldn't want him with 7 either, but I'm saying if you have a guy with that kind of talent and potential, it could end up paying off big in the end.


----------



## rapsfan4life

Draftcity @ prospect workouts!!!

http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=169

Check out the writeup on Ryan Gomes, Brandon Rush and Sean Banks, the rest are pointless

Brandon Rush sounds like a freak, read it 
the lack of D and jumper are sad cuz i would have taken him ahead of green but instead he is an offensive freak.


----------



## Unknownone

vigilante said:


> I wouldn't want him with 7 either, but I'm saying if you have a guy with that kind of talent and potential, it could end up paying off big in the end.


Taft has no heart - reminds me of Chris Wilcox - and despite the wealth of talent in Wilcox, you don't ever hear that he's a 'winner' outright; in fact, I'd go as far as saying that the triumvirate of Dixon, Blake, and Baxter were pretty much responsible for the Terps' championship run that year w/ substantial (BUT no essential) contributions from Wilcox...

Gimme Deron Williams if he's around at the 7th spot...


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## rapsfan4life

Andrew Bynum Has Declared


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## JuniorNoboa

The Saviour has entered the draft.

The Raps must draft Shavlik Randolph. We need more nancys on the team.


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## rapsfan4life

ANDREW BYNUM ANYONE???

Simple question, any thoughts, lotta hype with this kid. MAy be the 7 foot version of Al Jefferson in this draft and is slated to climb draft boards with his amazing potential that may rival GGreen.

From draftcity: http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=158

Let's hear it.


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## Unknownone

JuniorNoboa said:


> The Saviour has entered the draft.
> 
> The Raps must draft Shavlik Randolph. We need more nancys on the team.


His career really hasn't panned out w/ all the accolades and family history behind him - his stock isn't really gonna skyrocket w/ added time on the Duke roster - I can't fathom though what convinced him to declare? Expectin' to be a poor man's version of Cherokee Parks?


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## Unknownone

rapsfan4life said:


> ANDREW BYNUM ANYONE???
> 
> Simple question, any thoughts, lotta hype with this kid. MAy be the 7 foot version of Al Jefferson in this draft and is slated to climb draft boards with his amazing potential that may rival GGreen.
> 
> From draftcity: http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=158
> 
> Let's hear it.


I'd like to see what the battery of psychological tests conducted says about his character - the story about VC was that when he had his workout in Vancouver, the report came back and indicated high level of talent, but questioned his drive/ambition - you can have all the talent in the world, but is your head straight - I ain't askin' for another mathematics aficionado like Chris Bosh, but no head case like Kwame Brown...


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## Chris Bosh #4

This thread has really been dead for a while now... Lets get this thing back up.


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