# Not for Layden lover's eyes



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Thomas takes step toward shedding Anderson, source says
_
New York Daily News
Sept. 30, 2004

NEW YORK - Isiah Thomas is so committed to removing Shandon Anderson from his life that he is willing to give him $24 million not to play basketball.


According to a Knicks source, Thomas informed the veteran guard not to report to work come Monday, the first official day of training camp. That move would appear to be a first step in negotiating a buyout agreement with Anderson, who has three years remaining on his contract worth $24 million.


However, Thomas, the Knicks' president, said Thursday night that the team has no plans to "give money for nothing."

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Not sure what to make of the last line, but it would seem Isiah already likes Ariza better than Shandone. In fact I'd say it's safe to say he prefers Barrett (? did I hear he got picked up for camp? Not sure), Moochie, Brewer, Sundov and Bateer better too. 

Guess that just leaves Sweets from Layden's rule. Looks like Isiah thinks Layden landing in the lottery was his best move. Me too.


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## the Trent Tuckers (Feb 15, 2004)

hopefully this happens, anderson really sucked ever since he came here. i dont think anyone who have minded having him here if he played like he did when he was in utah. too bad they didnt do this sooner.


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

t's good to see Isiah 
is as down on Shandon as most Knicks fans are. Good riddance!!


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I would hope that shandone has enough confidence and percieved market value that he can bought out for 15 million or so....

Then again would any team pay him 2-3 million per??hmmmmm

If the Knicks buy him out for 15 million,how does that affect the amount they are over the cap by??Is there any reduction,even if it is prorated??


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Then again would any team pay him 2-3 million per??hmmmmm


Yep. Lucious Harris got that much. I doubt that money is available right now, but it will be next summer. If you haven't noticed, there's a high demand for defensive swingmen right now, as evidenced by team's pursuits of Greg Buckner and Ryan Bowen. I'd take Anderson over both those guys.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

error


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Even I think the fan's hatred has entered the extreme stage. You'd think Shandon was the one who blew 5 tip-ins against the Bulls. But this isn't about talent (or more accurately, lack there of) it's about attitude, chemistry, and accountability. Shandon crossed Zeke's line when he pulled the migraine stunt. Oh, and missing an exit meeting by a player of Shandone's "stature" is in effect a trade demand, and Isiah takes demands from guys like Shandon the way Tony Soprano takes demands from his pool boy.

Sure Shandon will go for 2-3M/yr, that's about market value for a veteran scrub.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Sure Shandon will go for 2-3M/yr, that's about market value for a veteran scrub.


Could you please detail the vast talent differences between Shandon Anderson and Trenton Hassell?


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## townknave (Jun 28, 2003)

Hassell can actually hit the occasional jump shot, and shot a respectable .443 eFG on jumpers last season. Anderson was .382, and you could really see this hurt us in the playoffs when he was hitting the side of the backboard on some of his midrange shots. 

Hassell: Defensive swingman who can hit an open jumper, has a reasonable contract, and doesn't have attitude problems. Turns 25 this season. Has a bit of upside.

Anderson: Defensive swingman who can't hit an open jumper, has one of the worst contracts in basketball, and has attitude problems. Turns 31 this season. Has zero upside.

Hassell >>> Anderson, and I guarantee 30 out of 30 GMs would rather have him on their team.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

^^ What he said ^^


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## NYKFan123 (Sep 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>townknave</b>!
> Hassell can actually hit the occasional jump shot, and shot a respectable .443 eFG on jumpers last season. Anderson was .382, and you could really see this hurt us in the playoffs when he was hitting the side of the backboard on some of his midrange shots.
> 
> Hassell: Defensive swingman who can hit an open jumper, has a reasonable contract, and doesn't have attitude problems. Turns 25 this season. Has a bit of upside.
> ...


Rashidi=Owned


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Rashidi=Owned


NYK123...may i humbly suggest you let the past be the past...:yes:


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Hassell can actually hit the occasional jump shot, and shot a respectable .443 eFG on jumpers last season. Anderson was .382, and you could really see this hurt us in the playoffs when he was hitting the side of the backboard on some of his midrange shots.


Hassell was assisted on a whopping 91% of his jumpers. Shandon was only assisted on 69% of his.

Also, 80% of the shots Hassell took were jumpers, meaning he was assisted on a large percentage of the shots he took. Hassell cannot create any offense for himself, period. It's easy to look good when your the worst player on the court and the best 3 players (KG, Cassell, Sprewell) are good passers.

Only 65% of the shots Anderson took were jumpers. 35% of his shots came from the inside (shots/layups/dunks/tips). Only 20% of Hassell's shots were from the inside.

In 02-03 Anderson shot very well from 3pt range, he is capable of better. He did struggle with his shot early in the year, but went back to normal after the all-star break.

Shandon's 3pt% by month
November: .275
December: .222
January: .167
February: .368
March: .333
April: .400

Overall, Hassell had eFG% of .471 and was assisted on 80% of his shots. Anderson had eFG% of .455 and was assisted on 68% of his shots. Anderson shot 16 points lower but was also on the recieving end of an assist 12% fewer. Maybe if Anderson had gotten better looks from his teammates (more assisted shots) he would have shot a slightly higher percentage.

Anderson also had an eFG% of .522 as a SG, and only .425 as a SF, thats a 97 point difference. Hassell was .484 as a SG, .440 as a SF. Anderson's driving ability isn't as good driving against bigger opponents.



> you could really see this hurt us in the playoffs when he was hitting the side of the backboard on some of his midrange shots.


I refuse to judge any player by a short stretch, especially in a playoff team where teams can gear themselves against your strengths and towards your weaknesses. I'm currently defending Gary Payton on another message board, and he had one of the most wretched playoff performances in recent memory. Obviously this year's series not one of Shandon's finer moments (as if the Knicks had a chance anyway), but he also was forced into taking those shots by the Net defense. Anderson took 7.1 FGA per game, while Hassell only took 4.7. Anderson also gets to the line literally twice as well as Hassell does, but that's irrelvant to the point I'm making. Hassell plays a very small role on the offense of his team, as should Anderson. Neither player should be taking 7 shots per game. Do you think that if Hassell weren't surrounded by KG/Spree/Cassell that he would be better? 

Remember the games Shandon had when Houston and KVH were injured (pre-Marbury)? Shandon had 20 vs the Sixers and then 28 the next night against the Celtics, both wins. Would Hassell be able to score 20 without KG/Cassell/Spree?

Anderson also played a vital role in his next game. He held Latrell Sprewell to 5 points on 2-11 shooting in a road win against the T'Wolves (Shandon was 3-6 with 7 pts), a bigger victory than the team had at any point post-Marbury trade (Indiana game is debateable, it came at home, not the road).

Anderson is a role player, and should be treated as such. If you're a playoff team, and the reason you lost is because Shandon Anderson missed all his shots, maybe you should look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why your offense is depending on contributions from a guy like Shandon Anderson in the first place. Anderson missed 20 shots in the series. The Knicks were blown out by a lot more than 20 shots.

Which by the way, is completely overblown. 15 of those 27 shots came in game 2 (3-15). People act like Anderson sucked all series long. Anderson was 2-6 in game 1, 0-1 in game 2, and 2-5 in game 4. The only game you could even attempt to pin on him is game 2, where EVERYONE but Kurt Thomas sucked.

Marbury was 7-20 in game 2, Penny was 5-16, and Nazr was 2-7. But because those players are popular (and on Zeke's A-list) they get free passes with the media. Anderson's backups, Frank Williams and DerMarr Johnson, were a collective 0-5 that game.

If Shandon Anderson is taking 15 shots in a playoff game, your team isn't playoff material.



> Hassell >>> Anderson, and I guarantee 30 out of 30 GMs would rather have him on their team.


That's only because of the contract, and Hassell's age. Anderson at Hassell's age would have gotten the same contract this off-season. The differences between the two aren't really that vast. Every player is different obviously, but they both fill the same roles and essentially have the same skill sets. Hassell is a better bet to hit an open jumper, but he can't do anything else. Hassell isn't as fast, and he didn't have to play out of position (at SF) this season like Anderson did a good portion of the year.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Anderson is a role player, and should be treated as such


Who gets paid like a star,and unfortunately when you are paid like he is,the scrutiny will be that much more intense....And I know its not his fault

Rashidi,he was dreadful,absolutely dreadful in the playoffs.I mean it was embarrasing,defensively and in every aspect of the game.I literrally have never seen a starter play that badly,and no obdy was even guarding him..Starbury had 3 guys on him...

Obviously,he will be bought out..His quotes are the dagger..

I dont fault Shadone..I hold Laydumb fully responsible.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Who gets paid like a star,and unfortunately when you are paid like he is,the scrutiny will be that much more intense....And I know its not his fault


Anderson gets paid like a starter. Penny gets paid like a star.



> I dont fault Shadone..I hold Laydumb fully responsible


Why is that? Layden didn't give Anderson 7 years and 49 million.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

penny is playing on no legs and is still 10x what shandone is,or did you not watch the net series??

true Layden didnt give the initial contract..he was even dumber and traded for him...ther is no defense for insanity


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> penny is playing on no legs and is still 10x what shandone is,or did you not watch the net series??


You mean the series where he shot .365 from the field? Anderson shot .259, most of it coming in one game. Anderson was 7-27, Penny was 23-63. Penny missed twice as many shots as Anderson, and makes what, 6 million more per year? Penny is making as much in 2 years as "overpaid" Anderson is making in 3.

By the way, on the topic of defense, who was Anderson guarding? I already posted saying that Anderson doesn't guard SFs well. Is it any surprise that Richard Jefferson did what he did? Would Penny have done any better? No. Meanwhile Latrell Sprewell gets all the credit for defending Vince Carter, when in fact, there's a reason the Knicks tripled him on every possession. I don't even like Anderson, I'm just looking for some unbiased consistency from NY fans, which one would think wouldn't be hard considering NY fans are the self-proclaimed "best fans in the country".



> true Layden didnt give the initial contract..he was even dumber and traded for him...ther is no defense for insanity


Yeah, because we all KNOW you wouldn't have complained with Glen Rice sitting around injured.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

rashidi,i have absolutely nothing against shandone..but i am honestly telling you,i have never ever seen a pro player play as badly as shandone did in that series..

he was lost lost lost ...and it wasnt just shooting..it was every facet of his game

rashidi,i happen to think eisly and shandone are 2 of the worst contracts ever signed by the knicks..and if i am not mistaken rices contract would have been expired a while back...

i can see defending shandones game and not placing the blame on him for being overpaid..but layden trading for those 2 is inexcusable


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> rashidi,i happen to think eisly and shandone are 2 of the worst contracts ever signed by the knicks..and if i am not mistaken rices contract would have been expired a while back...


When is the last time the Knicks let a contract expire? That doesn't go with policy, the Marbury trade was the nail in the coffin on that one, nevermind the Ewing trade.



> i can see defending shandones game and not placing the blame on him for being overpaid..but layden trading for those 2 is inexcusable


So you're saying that you wouldn't have been angry that the Knicks traded Ewing for Rice, and then sat pat when Rice had leg problems?

I hate sounding like a broken record, but here we go again.

TIMELINE

1. Ewing demands trade.
2. Dolan orders Layden to trade Ewing.
3. Layden is involved in 4 team blockbuster that would bring Baker and Rice to NY, and Laettner from Detroit to LA.
4. Joe Dumars backs out in 11th hour.
5. Ewing talks with JVG and decides he still wants to be traded.
6. Knicks trade Ewing for Rice, Longley, and 5 scrubs (Travis Knight, Vernon Maxwell, Vladimir Stephania, Lazaro Borrell, and another stiff I can't recall, Knight is only one that stays anyway)
7. Longley suffers career ending injury.
8. Rice gets plantar facislitis. (He ends up playing only 100 games in 3 seasons in his post-Knick career)
9. Layden trades Rice for Anderson/Eisley.

Reasons why Anderson/Eisley were acquired.
1. They got younger. At the time of the trade, Anderson was 28, Eisley was 29, and Rice was 34. The Knicks got younger by trading Rice.
2. They were on Layden's prior team. This is no different than Isiah bringing in his own favorites.
3. Money and the cap were never an issue because the Knicks always won.
4. Deny it all you want, but not trading Rice would have been ridiculed just as badly. Even if his salary came off the books, they still would be how far over the cap? The Knicks were (and still are) in compete mode, no matter how delusional it may be, and essentially getting nothing for Ewing would have been lambasted and probably gotten Layden fired sooner rather than later.

In 01-02 injury to Camby took them out of the playoffs. In 02-03 injury to Spree (and to some extent McDyess) took them out of the playoffs. Anderson/Eisley had the worst years of their careers in 01-02, but it just wasn't a good year across the board, especially after Van Gundy quit. Anderson/Eisley both rebounded in 02-03 and the team was .500 with Sprewell in the lineup (but killed by 2-10 start without him).



> i can see defending shandones game and not placing the blame on him for being overpaid..but layden trading for those 2 is inexcusable


Penny is just as overpaid, as was Larry Johnson back in the day. Nobody says a word about them because they're popular. It's not about the money, the money is just an excuse people use. If Anderson's contract were removed from the Knick payroll, the Knicks would still be very far away from being under the cap. Why is it that other Knicks can cash fatter pay checks than their worth? Anthony Mason made more all-star teams than Larry Johnson did after the trade, and he didn't make nearly as much money, so what's with the hypocriscy? I'm not knocking LJ and love him to death, but the fact is he was overpaid. And nobody cared that he was overpaid. So why is Shandon Anderson not allowed to be overpaid? As if Layden was the only Knick GM to overpay for talent.

Who really cares if the Knick 12th man makes 10 million dollars? It won't matter either way. As long as that player contributes to a winning effort, then what's the big deal? Theres no such thing as "cost effective" on the Knicks, just "effective", and Anderson is more effective than his would be replacements, Trevor Ariza, Tracy Murray, Bruno Sundov, Jamison Brewer, Mengke Bateer, and Andre Barrett.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!I'm just looking for some unbiased consistency from NY fans, which one would think wouldn't be hard considering NY fans are the self-proclaimed "best fans in the country".


If I may indulge myself in a little distraction...

I've given a little thought about this "NY fans are the most knowledgeable" business (and the Celtics', and later the Bulls' fans). I think it was more true in the past than it is today. I think it harkens back to the days before the New NBA took effect (pre Larry, Magic and Michael) when even some of the Finals games were not broadcast on live television because ratings were too low.

In those days much of the fan base went to games and listened in on the radio. It took a deeper dedication to know your team and really know the game. And in that era the Knicks happened to be very good. I'm sure that helped. So I'd expect other good big market cities, like Philly, Washington, and LA, were smart too.

Some of it may also have had to do with how good the teams TV and radio announcers were, and of course major markets have an advantage there too.

Now, with the schedule such that every local game is broadcast on it's own network, and several national games are on each week, and there is League pass and NBA TV, and EVERY playoff game is nationally broadcast, NYers and their other big city counterparts no longer have the advantage they once did.

That said, I shared a pair of season Knicks tkts for about 10 years (though I sold most and just went to choice reg season games and all playoff games) and I can tell you a lot of us in the upperdecks were calling fouls before the refs blew their whistles, and even today I follow a game better from the nosebleeds than on TV. 

The reason I mention all that is I know what the garden sounds like very well, and when I watch games from other cities on TV the crowd is very different. Like if a player gets fouled, the whistle blows, and just for kicks he takes three steps and throws up a bank shot that goes in. Other arenas resound with cheers thinking it was continuation until the announcer tells them otherwise. The Garden knows better and shouts foul before the whistle is blown.

But other than that, reading other boards, the level of knowledge around the country is pretty equal as far as I can tell. And a lot of other cities boards are capable of a higher level of discourse than we are.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program....


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Rashidi is being seduced...*

by stats again. Of course Shan the man took more inside shots..that is his strength. He gets out on the break and slashes in the half court set. The fact is that he blew many , many chippies last year..and the year before. Hassel is a nice player with no apparent attitude problems....Anderson is a head case. Hassel is as good or much better in almost every phase of the game, Star? Nah, but Shandon really is a scrub.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

The simple TRUTH is,Rashidi knows full well Shandone is pure garbage and his actions are inexcusable,bordering on being fined or suspended for each infraction..

The guy was given EVERY opportunity last year,and lets STOP with the excuse,he dislpayed not an ounce of talent...

You seek consistency,but you are irrational when it comes to defending anyone associated with layden,and thats OK...You are very CONSITSENT about Layden and i admire your loyalty and delusionality

Simple TRUTH...Shandone had every opportunity to shine and flat out SUKKKS..And he is a whining baby,who blew off mandatory meetings,exit interviews and I hope ZEKE ends his career picking splinters out of his butt


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Penny is just as overpaid, as was Larry Johnson back in the day. Nobody says a word about them because they're popular. It's not about the money, the money is just an excuse people use. If Anderson's contract were removed from the Knick payroll, the Knicks would still be very far away from being under the cap. Why is it that other Knicks can cash fatter pay checks than their worth? Anthony Mason made more all-star teams than Larry Johnson did after the trade, and he didn't make nearly as much money, so what's with the hypocriscy? I'm not knocking LJ and love him to death, but the fact is he was overpaid. And nobody cared that he was overpaid. So why is Shandon Anderson not allowed to be overpaid?


For the last time..PENNY was filler to make the trade happen..The suns wanted to unload him for cap and the Knicks desparately wanted marbury....Anderson and Eisly were supposedly PLAYERS,and their contracts were/are horrendous..NOBODY wants these scrubs...

LJ is a totally different story....He played his heart out and produced and was a warrior with half the athletic ability he was born with ...

What dont you get?????Shandone Anderson SUKKS,is overpaid,and insubordinate???Do you disagree??


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Anderson and Eisly were supposedly PLAYERS,


HUH? What? When did this happen? I thought NY fans were smart? These guys were career backups when they came here, they were career backups with the team, and they are/will be career backups off the team. Are you trying to say that you and NY fans expected them to be PLAYERS? Talentwise these guys combined were an upgrade over Rice, that's about it. I pity any NY fan that thought these guys were PLAYERS. They were 7th/8th men, and they both played well in 02-03, so I don't know exactly what you're whining about. This is like saying Moochie Norris was supposed to be a PLAYER.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> These guys were career backups when they came here, they were career backups with the team


then layden is dumber than I imagined...he takes on long term contracts like Shandone and eisly ????

SCARRRRRRRYYYY


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> What dont you get?????Shandone Anderson SUKKS,is overpaid,and insubordinate???Do you disagree??


Maybe you can't read. I already said he sucks, and the fact that he is overpaid doesn't mean a damn thing in NY, where 50% of the players on all the sports teams are overpaid. Mike Piazza made 16 million dollars this season, how many Met fans are complaining about his paycheck? They are complaining that he's sucking, not because he's overpaid. Same with Jason Giambi, it's got nothing to do with pay, only production. Hell, Derek Jeter is one of the most overpaid players on the Yankees, and he's probably the most popular Yankee.

What don't you get? Anderson is a better player than Trevor Ariza, Mengke Bateer, Jamison Brewer, Bruno Sundov, Tracy Murray, and Andre Barrett. <b>His salary isn't an issue.</b> Why downgrade the team, because the GM doesn't like a player personally? This is ONLY the 3rd run in that Isiah has had with a veteran since hitting town what, 8 months ago? I find it a bit hard to take his side. Assuming Anderson is waived this month, Isiah is right on schedule to make Kurt Thomas the next "cancer" by December.

It's amazing how even Isiah Thomas can turn a hard working veteran like Anderson into an "insuboordinate". Weren't you calling Anderson a suboordinate just a few months ago?


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> He gets out on the break and slashes in the half court set.


Right, and Hassell can't do that.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> It's amazing how even Isiah Thomas can turn a hard working veteran like Anderson into an "insuboordinate". Weren't you calling Anderson a suboordinate just a few months ago?


Judging by Shandone style of play he definetly seems like he has good work ethic..I have no clue as to what goes on behind the scenes..

I can only say that i dont think shandone shouldd be on the knicks


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Rashidi*

Hassel is not as athletic as Shandon but he is far and away more physical. I saw him power up and over 3 Knicks in traffic to dunk in a close game. I am only suprised that he is not better than he is. He will continue to improve, imo.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Hassel is not as athletic as Shandon but he is far and away more physical.


Is that why he takes 1.2 FT per 48 minutes? That's where Anderson's inside ability comes into play, and why judging them straight up on their eFG% is misleading - Anderson gets to the line 4 times as much as Hassell. 

I think I remember Hassell's dunk - it's not the norm from him. 2% of his shots were dunks, same as Anderson. Hassell's weakness is his inability to get by his man, has been since he came into the league, and still is.

Once upon a time, Allan Houston was in the dunk contest. That doesn't mean he ever had slashing ability.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*You are mixing comparisons..*

Never said Hassel was another Anderson, athletically. Nor did I say that he was another H2o. He has some of both guys games, although not nearly as good a shooter as Houston. Better defender than either, though. Of course he didn't shoot much at Minny....they have KG, Spree, and Wally...he was not really an option. Btw, I didn't say dunking was a big part of his game. I simply pointed out that he had some hops and strength...and was willing to use it in traffic.


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