# So, how would you go about fixing the US team?



## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

3 straight international tournaments with no gold medals. Honestly, I thought Colangelo and Coach K did a great job of putting together a roster this summer. Looks like it didn't pan out to a gold medal. But they did improve drastically from previous years.

As far as the roster goes, one thing is for sure, we need players with a more consistent jumpshot. Carmelo was the one saving grace of this tournament with his versatile offense. Also, I'm not too familiar with Americans playing in the foreign leagues, but I'd like a point guard with A LOT of international experience. This roster is good though, the majority of the team should stay for the Tournament of the Americas. If they played together a little more, I'm pretty sure that will put them over the top. As Friscilla said, 3 weeks really isn't enough to put together a cohesive unit on both ends of the floor. 

Do you think more of FIBA's rules need to be adapted into the NBA? Another thing is scouting international teams. Those guys knew the tendencies of the US players and it showed. Lets face it, we may have the best individual players in the world, but as tonight showed, talent can only get you so far. We're no longer the dominant powerhouse that'll win every tournment, we are like Brazil, perennial favorites every year with the talent, but there are better teams. 

I think the international basketball program has improved leaps and bounds, but there's still plenty to do. What are your suggestions for fixing US basketball?


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Obviously we need to work more on fundamentals. we had a good team this year but they were struggling at times when they were defening poorly against some pick and roll offenses. our zone defense is next to nonexistent right now. our half court offense is a joke. its basically one man trying to beat 5 guys alone. coach k didnt have all the right ideas. i thought his rotations were good in the earlier games but a joke in the later games. we need better scouting as well. the USA coaching staff might know the opposing teams' players but our players sure as hell didnt. We need to basically extend the USA training camps longer to build more cohesiveness and teamwork within the system. 

the current roster is fine. i have no major qualms except for more big men and more pure shooters. they were all young and did valiantly up to the greece game. they will get older and wiser for the next fiba/olympic games.


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## gamadict (Jul 28, 2002)

I would hate for the NBA to look more like FIBA. The NBA is a much more appealing game to watch, to me at least.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

gamadict said:


> I would hate for the NBA to look more like FIBA. The NBA is a much more appealing game to watch, to me at least.


Exactly. It's very appealing, highlight driven basketball. We get to see all the amazing dunks and crossovers. Though it wasn't a big problem in this tournament as it was in previous ones, the unfamiliarity of the FIBA game was a major problem for the US. They adjusted well from 2002 and 2004, but the one major rule I'd like to be called in the NBA that FIBA calls is traveling. Also, getting bailed out on the calls from the NBA officials isn't as common in FIBA. Seeing some of our players getting frustrated when they didn't get the call they usually get in the NBA game was very evident in this tournament.


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## Boozuka-AK47 (Jul 11, 2004)

1) Fire Coach K. Seriously. The best atheletes in the world, and we're jacking up 35 threes a game. Way to play to your strengths. Bring in a better rounded coach, like say....Jim Calhoun, Avery Johnson, or Popovich. Coach K + Mike "never saw a three I didn't like" D'antoni = drowning in clanked treys. Good shooters or no, 35+ threes is at least 15 too many a game.

2) USA needs to spend more time together playing with the FIBA rules (all summer long, every summer), and for god's sake, scout opposing players please? (goes back to bad coaching)

3) Stop with the FIBA = all-star insanity and send a real team over! I'm tired of Dwyane "I left my brain in America" Wade and the like thinking they can play 1 on 5. Assemble a REAL team. The only glue guys on the whole damn team were Hinrich and Battier.

Anthony was the only thing that kept it from looking much, much worse.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The only way we could guarantee victory would be to surrender to FIBA and have all the NBA refs swallowed up in whatever branch of la cosa nostra the FIBA refs belong to.That may sound bitter,but frankly the FIBA game is so bizarrely officiated and so alien to American ballplayers that it would be almost impossible for us to put together a team on short notice that could adapt to the differences effectively.

All the European and South Americans play this game from childhood and they are used to the rules and the fact that the referees have no ****ing clue how to referee a basketball game.The only way we could really compete on a level field would be to play the same game.I'll become a cricket fan first because FIBA is both incompetent and it seems to be thoroughly corrupt.There's a reason why our sports leagues go to such lengths to protect the_ Integrity of the game_ and punish anyone who questions it so harshly.You have to have the public's trust.The audience has to believe that the games are on the level and there's a lot of reason to question whether or not FIBA's games are on the level.


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

In my opinion making another roster revolution is a big mistake.. This summer a project started.. u didn't win the gold immediately but is through the losses that a team grows up.. As I said in other threads the core of this team should remain the same.. u could change 1-2 players.. but the team chemistry will improve if they will play again together


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

You've got to face it. The United States (or any other team) will never dominate the championship. The competition is too close. The only thing you can try (as all the other countries) is to send a good contender who will play at its 100% and fight for every game.


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## RomaVictor (Feb 16, 2004)

If you think about it FIBA was designed to be a "US killer."

The US developed b-ball and we've NEVER had that trapezoidal lane. That changes the game. I MIGHT be wrong in my memory but did the NBA ever allow pure zone defenses after the shot clock was invented? 

FIBA is college rules PLUS some to allow for weaker teams to defeat favored ones. before the US was dominant because of pure talent and college players (who worked with zones and the shorter 3 line, which isn't just a 'better chance of making it" thing but changes how Ds are played and how rotations and switches are handled.

I'm not sure the NBA should adopt those rules. People STOPPED watching because of a decline in scoring. I DO wish they would go back to allowing more contact in certain areas. But all pro leagues, whatever the 'rules' should go back to the purity of interpretation as much as possible. This is for both NBA (consistent but consistently favoring) and FIBA (bizarre interpretations of traditional basketball rules, wild inconsistency)

But really, just add Kobe and one more shooter and maybe Amare or Oden are ready and just let the team grow together. 

There were so many moments tonight when I could just shake my head and echo Amare's sentiments, "Who better than Kobe?!" So many times in this tournament and in the Olympics that we could have used his drive and defense and excellent jump shot. He lives for a world stage like this. He's also a guy who you can just sicc on the opponent on defense like we used to do MJ and let the other scorers do their thing.

I didn't hate K's rotations but some made no sense. SOfo is MASSIVE. how was putting Bosh on him going to help? That cost us the game and the momentum right there!


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## SianTao (Jul 11, 2005)

Keeping this group of guys together would be a good start.
It would be no good if the media starts *****ing about another failure and the team is reloaded yet again. Although I think that's what gonna happen anyway, OG'08 team will have quite a lot of new faces on it (Kobe, Billups, Redd, Stoudemire, etc. - and none of them would be that much of an improvement over current group for the "international" ball, IMO).
Another problem is, the squad construction process always is heavily influenced by the NBA marketting.
And same can be said about coaching decisions too. The coach simply has no guts to bench a guy like Lebron. Although today he should have. Because the game vs Greece was lost because of crappy defense above all, and Bron was the prime example of it (and wasn't doing anything useful on offense for the most of the game either, besides burning some shotclock when the ball came into his hands).

As for the refs, the game vs Greece was the first in the tournament where teh USA didn't get their support. And of course, for some of you kiddies, is quite puzzling to see your comic book superheroes getting different treatment than the usual "good" calls in the NBA (which lets them have these "sikkk" statlines). Learn the meaning of "unbiased".


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## RomaVictor (Feb 16, 2004)

AMR said:


> You've got to face it. The United States (or any other team) will never dominate the championship. The competition is too close. The only thing you can try (as all the other countries) is to send a good contender who will play at its 100% and fight for every game.


Well, if you mean the way it did in competitions when it sent its best, I would say you are correct.

But does anyone remember the 1998 team? This was a team of less-than-NBA rejects (IMO) other than Brad Miller and Jimmy King.

They lost two games by a total of 4 points and won the bronze, I think. Now the internationals are better but it's not a WORLD of difference in the 4 and 6 years later that the US with NBA all-stars lost.

That's a team of nobodies who took on the world and WON except for four points. That proves that this has nothing to do with "oh, those Americans aren't as good as everyone thinks." The internationals are just better than they were, they play WITH the Americans in many cases, clinics are ongoing, talent is developed (hell, if those Greeks never adopted Sofoklis, does Greek win today? lol just a little thought experiment) and honed.

If the US is so bad at fundamentals, why are we still beating the crap out of teams in U-20 tournaments (not EVERY outing but most of them, as far as I recall?) Must be something RIGHT in the US. It's just that the NBA is different from FIBA and college and high school.

It's ALWAYS been different but now the guys we send are like a 2.0 version of our old college teams. 

The First couple of Dream Teams were manned by EXPERIENCED veterans, some in their 30s or approaching it.

WHy was Brad Miller not in the game to take Sofo away from the basket and to man up on him (at least a little--better than Bosh) 

Nowadays, coaching matters more than it used to, which is why the coaches get criticized more.


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

Sofoklis isn't adopted, his father is Greek.

And I think USA Basketball is just thinking in Beijing, so they took the right decision sending guys who will be there too.

IMO, this loss isn't so dramatic, with a few details, the Americans could have advanced to the final.


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## RomaVictor (Feb 16, 2004)

AMR said:


> Sofoklis isn't adopted, his father is Greek.
> 
> And I think USA Basketball is just thinking in Beijing, so they took the right decision sending guys who will be there too.
> 
> IMO, this loss isn't so dramatic, with a few details, the Americans could have advanced to the final.


Really? I swore I read an article like 4 years back about him being adopted. It wasn't until seeing him again in the tournament that I remembered him.

My mistake. 

But yeah, I don't think it's that terrible either. I'm sad but with 1-3 key additions/subtractions and a better approach by Coach K to rotations, I think the US can win the gold and in impressive fashion in the OLympics (though they may look ugly at times during qualifying in 2007)


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## gamadict (Jul 28, 2002)

Just because I like to ***** about international rules...

I think it's more likely you see more NBA-like rules seep out into other leagues then FIBA making inroads here. Foreign professional leagues are just as concerned with the game being entertaining for spectators as the NBA. I'm not sure you'll ever see international competition move in that direction, but individual leagues certainly could.

Furthermore, the notion that FIBA(and college) rules are somehow a more pure interpretation of basketball is very arguable, I think. Basketball was initially supposed to be a vigorous, physical sport. It was not meant to be a competition of fine technical skills. If you look back at the 50s and 60s, teams were absolutely garbage shooting from the field, and played at an absurdly fast pace(which is why there are so many guys pulling down 20 boards a game in that era). As time progressed, the game gradually became more focused on technical skill and tactics. Certainly this has reached it's zenith in FIBA play, which is very much about running precise plays and hitting lots of long shots. Now, maybe this is just the natural direction of the sport. In the 19th and early 20th century, baseball was much more of an athletic sport, with lots of balls in play, few homeruns, few walks, few strikeouts, lots of base running. But today it's more about highly skilled technicians, lots of specialists and tons of standing around. This doesn't seem likely to change, and the game is still very popular.

I personally think basketball is more fun to watch and play when it's a vigorous athletic game rather then a precise technical game. So I appreciate very much that the NBA makes efforts to keep it that way with the long three, giving offensive players iniative, the restricted area under the basket, restricted defenses, etc. In my eyes, this is not changing basketball into something it is not, but rather trying to maintain what basketball should be.


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2004)

gamadict said:


> Just because I like to ***** about international rules...
> I personally think basketball is more fun to watch and play when it's a vigorous athletic game rather then a precise technical game. So I appreciate very much that the NBA makes efforts to keep it that way with the long three, giving offensive players iniative, the restricted area under the basket, restricted defenses, etc. In my eyes, this is not changing basketball into something it is not, but rather trying to maintain what basketball should be.



As you said thats your personal opinion. I just love to watch games where you can tactically and technically beat teams that has more raw talent and physics. After all this is a team game and it's team that should win the games. Restricted defence is really absurd. Why should you restrict it? Other team has to have enough brains, skills and athletism to overcome it. I love to watch a good team rather than some individuals going 1on1. And why not call all the traveling etc. and all the BS NBA refs do? That is not IMO what basketball should be. No player should be above everyone else in refs eyes and that certainly is not the case in NBA.

And I wish they would have all the best international refs in the tournament too. refereeing was inconsistent but not a game changer in any of the games.


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## Darman (Jun 29, 2006)

RomaVictor said:


> If the US is so bad at fundamentals, why are we still beating the crap out of teams in U-20 tournaments (not EVERY outing but most of them, as far as I recall?) Must be something RIGHT in the US.


IMO Athletism.


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## Nuzzo (Jul 11, 2005)

IMO USA is using they athletism wrong-instead of outrun and outjump other team they MUST play like Motor City Bad Boys-pound them, hit them, elbow them, trash talk them throw them to floor etc. No other team can sustain play 40 min agains such type of basketball executed by ZO, Howard, Artest, Bonzi Wells...


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Nothing to fix. This team was built for 08. This tournament was just about building chemistry and getting used to everyone. Now we will have qualifying and two more years to have this group get used to playing with each other. Remember, they only had 3 weeks in the middle of the summer to put this all together, and some of that was wasted on tryouts.

We'll add Oden, Kobe, and Amare, and that will be our team. We'll have a Melo, Lebron, Wade, and Howard 3 years farther along in their development. Same with guys like Hinrich, Johnson, and Paul. We're a young young team.

This is a building process against much more experienced teams. Playing their game.

There's obviously not a talent problem. And the mix seems right for what Coach K wants to do. It's just getting better at it.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Oh and I wish people would take these tournaments more seriously in the media. We should be looking at these comps as World Cup type events. Where it's a good thing if we win, something to be celebrated, instead of only playing not to lose. Our players shouldn't play and have to think they are carrying all of NBA basketball on their backs. It's not like Spanish players in soccer feel the need to justify La Liga in the world cup. Or Italy Serie A. 

It would just be nice if there was more support for Team USA. Or at least not people rooting for them to fail.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

My guess is that this is the last time you see Wade, LeBron and Melo in international competition.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> My guess is that this is the last time you see Wade, LeBron and Melo in international competition.


They have 3 year commitments. So I think they have to stay. I suppose they could sit out with an injury, go get married or something like that.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Oh and I wish people would take these tournaments more seriously in the media. We should be looking at these comps as World Cup type events. Where it's a good thing if we win, something to be celebrated, instead of only playing not to lose. Our players shouldn't play and have to think they are carrying all of NBA basketball on their backs. It's not like Spanish players in soccer feel the need to justify La Liga in the world cup. Or Italy Serie A.
> 
> *It would just be nice if there was more support for Team USA. Or at least not people rooting for them to fail*.



Casual ball fans in America, just dont matter anymore


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

It would help if Dwyane Wade wasn't so selfish with the ball every damn time down the court.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Also, the US problem is the same for Argentina and to a lesser extent Spain. Plenty of talent but as more of their top line players spend seasons in the NBA, they become less accustomed to FIBA rules a style of play. It takes more than 3 weeks to learn how to attack a zone defense effectively. It is no different on what you see in college when you see senior laden lesser talent teams destroy young, talented teams early in the season but by seasons end the most talented teams come out on top regardless of age. However, even in the one and done format, experienced teams have a shot to out execute more talented teams for one game or out strategize them. No FIBA team could beat Team USA in a 7 game series because by game three the USA players would understand their tendencies and the talent takes over.

It is why Carlos Arroyo was less effective after two seasons in the NBA. The NBA and FIBA are two different games. If TEAM USA wants to establish itself as the top dog again, what they need to do is come up with a national system in which players play in from grade school on up with FIBA rules. You don't change the NBA into FIBA rules, you change AAU, HS and are younger teams into FIBA rules...maybe even college (although college is already very similar to FIBA rules). Change our entire amateur system, then it would not be so foreign to them and the the players would be used to playing FIBA rules and blending their talents.

It is like a Texas Hold Em specialist who just all of sudden jumps into a 7 card stud tournament. The games are similar enough that he could defeat lesser opponents but when he meets opponents of similar poker talent who specialize in 7 card stud, he is going to be at a disadvantage.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

why change our system, to accomodate(sp) them, when all our kids wanna go pro here?

yes, it is important and nice to win worldly tournaments...but at the end of the day, we make our money and feed our kids here, in the US

yes, it is annoying to lose...but why stress, and disrepect americans, when you have their jersey in your closet, doesnt make sense


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Also, the US problem is the same for Argentina and to a lesser extent Spain. Plenty of talent but as more of their top line players spend seasons in the NBA, they become less accustomed to FIBA rules a style of play.


An excellent point. Look at what has happened to Serbia, Slovenia, and a lot of the eastern european countries we've been getting talent out of for years. They no longer really play well as a team. They have a lot of the same superstar problems we do. And Argentina probably would be more affected by this if we had gotten to them sooner, but we didn't start bringing their players over until they were in their prime. But this seems like a one shot generation in Argentina. 

Watch what happens to Spain in 5 years as more and more of their young talented players come over to the NBA.


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> Watch what happens to Spain in 5 years as more and more of their young talented players come over to the NBA.


That's an interesting point. I really hope this won't happen.


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## pliumbum (Mar 23, 2004)

to remember how to play in fiba rules is easier than to learn it.. so even if all european players come to nba, they'll still have advantage of being able to play fiba rules.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Why cant FIBA adapt some of our rules. I mean swatting shots off the rim doesnt make sense to me.


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## Real (Aug 3, 2005)

Leave the team as is.

You mess with it now, what kind of chemistry are we going to have? Guys that play now get familiar or more familiar with international rules and how the game plays.

This is not a setback. Give the team a chance to play in the olympics. Then you can blame Colangelo and Coach K.


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## pliumbum (Mar 23, 2004)

2dumb2live said:


> Why cant FIBA adapt some of our rules.


Why? Because all the world plays according to fiba rules, and there is only one league, namely NBA, which does not. USA is just one country out of 200 countries in the world, why should everyone copy them? Let's just play the way all the world plays.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

The only problems i found with this team this year were these:
1) Pick n' roll defense
2) Pressure to play all the players on the roster
3) Not a well run offense-too many 3's, not enough ball movement, didnt use a lot of the players' strengths.


If you ask me, the rotation should have been this:
Wade/kirk
Melo/JJohnson
Battier
LBJ/Bosh
Howard


You have wade running things at PG. Melo there to be clutch and shoot the ball from 3. Battier for D,hustle, and shooting. Now this where things get important. LBJ has great post up and passing skills. Post him up almost every possesion and let him cause havoc for the other team's defense. He should be able to open up shooters and the passing lanes. Howard would be there to be a intimidator in the lane and rebound. Then you have a good defender and shooter from Hinrich. Johnson played pretty well, so he would be in the rotation as well. Bosh pretty much proved he can be very effective inside and outside in FIBA basketball.


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## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

Why don't you (americans) admit yours players are not as good as you try to sell .

To say fiba rules , it's just excuses because best players in other countries playing in NBA .

The point is Lebron is a sell-trainers (sorry for my English) , he's really a mediocre player .

In last times in NBA , players don't play basket , they do Athletics .They don't pass , no throw , just run and dunk (this is not basket) .

With FIBA rules , Jordan in his time has crushed all his oponents . :banana:


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Helter Skelter said:


> Why don't you (americans) admit yours players are not as good as you try to sell .
> 
> To say fiba rules , it's just excuses because best players in other countries playing in NBA .
> 
> ...


When Jordan played international teams, the other teams werent that good coaching and player wise.

To say the NBA doesnt have a lot of talent is a lie.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

I got a question- Where did basketball originate and where was the first basketball tournament(like the nba) created?


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## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

2dumb2live said:


> When Jordan played international teams, the other teams werent that good coaching and player wise.
> 
> To say the NBA doesnt have a lot of talent is a lie.


Jordan has played with the best ever teams outside USA , The old Yugoslavia , with Petrovic , Radja , Divac , Kukok , Perasovic ,etc ... This team today will win actual world championship .


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## bruindre (Jul 18, 2004)

I agree with a lot of the points already mentioned in this thread as to the result of why we fell short of our goal. A couple of other things I've been thinkin' about w.r.t. this team:

- What's the correlation between letting the families come over and spend time with the players to the fall off in shooting in the Germany game and this game (versus all previous games). I'm just curious about that one....

- Doesn't it all fall back to perimeter shooting (again)? Wider key = less post play. Also, when will the Americans recognize that no matter how you put a team together, one major international perception of the U.S. is that they can't shoot a lick from the perimeter. Again, we've proven that true (not to mention an abysmal showing from the charity stripe).

- In terms of coaches....why isn't Rudy T. a full time, year-round coach for the U.S. team? I feel this guy's a perfect fit--a pro coach who has international experience and has the time to scout (or at least assemble a full-time staff that can scout) internationally. The arrogance of the U.S. at this stage to think that they can grab some tapes a month or two before international competition and know the in's and out's of every international foe....it doesn't appear to be working.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

I saw this post on the Bulls' Board and thought it was amusing but pretty good.
" The overall effect of FIBA rules and the mindset of FIBA officiating tends to play to the lowest common denominator -- minimize the difference between the weakest player and the strongest one. I prefer the NBA system, where the weakest player can still contribute, but not because the best players are being held back artifically somehow. If FIBA ran baseball, players like David Ortiz and Albert Pujols would be forced to hit with 100-ounce bats while the Adam Everetts and Yadier Molinas of the world would get 6 strikes per at bat."


One must also realize that the NBA relies much on the lane for their big men. The same poster also posted this:
" why the NBA quickly went back to the longer stripe, and why, imo, college basketball is basically unwatchable -- is that it allows a defense to pack it in and totally wall off the basket. If I want to watch a basketball game that's nothing but jumpers, I'll put "Hoosiers" in the DVD player, or take a Pepto Bismol and turn on a college game. Personally, I like watching big men operate in the paint. I love watching players taking the ball to the rim and challenging the defense. That doesn't happen so much when the defense is camped out in the paint. The longer three point line enables better spacing and improved flow."


Of course team USA had their share of their own problems, rules also make a difference.


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