# Bulls: Amare Stoudemire rumors again



## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

Here we go again.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=aw-stoudemiresuns012510&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Luol Deng: 24 years old.... 17.7 ppg 7.4 rpg 46% fg 76% ft 1 bpg 1 spg

Amare Stoudemire: 27 years old.... 20.9 ppg 8.6 rpg 55% fg 75% ft .9 bpg .6 spg 

I know people will probably disagree... but I don't think I'd trade Deng as a principle piece to get Amare... for what you'll end up paying Stoudemire after this season I just don't know if it would be worth it. He doesn't defend, he doesn't rebound particularly well, he doesn't have a back to the basket game... Deng + something for Amare just doesn't seem to help this team that much in my opinion.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Luol Deng: 24 years old.... 17.7 ppg 7.4 rpg 46% fg 76% ft 1 bpg 1 spg
> 
> Amare Stoudemire: 27 years old.... 20.9 ppg 8.6 rpg 55% fg 75% ft .9 bpg .6 spg
> 
> I know people will probably disagree... but I don't think I'd trade Deng as a principle piece to get Amare... for what you'll end up paying Stoudemire after this season I just don't know if it would be worth it. He doesn't defend, he doesn't rebound particularly well, he doesn't have a back to the basket game... Deng + something for Amare just doesn't seem to help this team that much in my opinion.


What he does do is give the Bulls a legit scoring option at the 5 that's pretty valuable. No trade would be made unless he comes with a new contract but losing Deng's contract in the long run is a plus even if Amare does not come with a new contract.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

"As they did when shopping Stoudemire last season, the Suns want a combination of young talent, salary-cap relief and draft picks for him."

I think we offer James' contract, Tyrus, a first rounder (lottery protected), and all the second round picks they need. Add any of the bench riders except Miller and Hinrich to make contracts match. If they don't want it, walk away from the table.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I would trade Deng as a central piece. Amare is a much more dangerous scorer, and is no more likely to have injury problems than Deng is.

Both will consume a large portion of our cap for many years. Amare will be more, yes, but when healthy he is a more valuable player.

The thought of having both Deng and Amare is frightening (not in a good way), because you have a combined $25M+ in annual salary and alot of potential for lingering injury problems. Not a good combination. I can accept this risk for 1 player, but not two. And Amare brings better upside, even if 3 years older.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Wynn said:


> "As they did when shopping Stoudemire last season, the Suns want a combination of young talent, salary-cap relief and draft picks for him."
> 
> I think we offer James' contract, Tyrus, a first rounder (lottery protected), and all the second round picks they need. Add any of the bench riders except Miller and Hinrich to make contracts match. If they don't want it, walk away from the table.


I would do that, but would this trade beat the trade offers of others? 

The Bulls would walk away imo if the rumors we have read about in the past were true. 

I dont want to over pay for Amare.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Deng is a better player. Amare is among the most overrated players in the NBA and even though he is only 27 he is already on the decline. Also lets not forget that his numbers are boosted because he plays for phoenix and with Nash. He is really the only big time FA that I would not want. He is a one trick pony, has major injury concerns and seems to have an enormous ego which I imagine could be a distraction. Honestly I would _much_ rather have David Lee.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

caseyrh said:


> Deng is a better player. Amare is among the most overrated players in the NBA and even though he is only 27 he is already on the decline. Also lets not forget that his numbers are boosted because he plays for phoenix and with Nash. He is really the only big time FA that I would not want. He is a one trick pony, has major injury concerns and seems to have an enormous ego which I imagine could be a distraction. Honestly I would _much_ rather have David Lee.


Deng is not better than Amare. No way you can even justify it. And he's not on the decline. He's been now rounding back into shape from the eye injury and has been on a tear since December. Besides, I've never seen him put the effort like he has this season to rebound and play D (albeit his D still sucks). Maybe there is truth to his devaluing without a PG, but he has avged 20 ppg with Marbury and about 25ppg with Joe Johnson as the PG that half yr. No way to know for sure. You guys have Rose anyway who can get him the ball. 

I can't argue is the injury concerns and ego. Regardless you'll be happy, Suns can get better offers, and I doubt your owner would sign off on the extension he wants.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I'd trade Deng for Amare in a split second. The Bulls are not going to be anything more than mediocre until they get a post presence especially on the offensive end. Amare has his problems but the one thing he does well is score inside. You can replace Deng with a handful of players but for as much problem that the Bulls have had at acquiring an inside player you would certainly have to jump at Amare if the opportunity presents itself.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Organized Chaos said:


> Deng is not better than Amare. No way you can even justify it. And he's not on the decline. He's been now rounding back into shape from the eye injury and has been on a tear since December. Besides, I've never seen him put the effort like he has this season to rebound and play D (albeit his D still sucks). Maybe there is truth to his devaluing without a PG, but he has avged 20 ppg with Marbury and about 25ppg with Joe Johnson as the PG that half yr. No way to know for sure. You guys have Rose anyway who can get him the ball.
> 
> I can't argue is the injury concerns and ego. Regardless you'll be happy, Suns can get better offers, and I doubt your owner would sign off on the extension he wants.


Statistically Amare looks a bit better. But IMHO Deng is the better player. He is a much better rebounder and defender for his postion. Two things which are extremeley valuable. And show up in stats like adjusted plus minus. Which basically shows that the Bulls are much better with Deng on the court and somehow the Suns are much worse with Stoudamire on the court. That is pretty scary for a guy who is supposed to be your best or second best player. There is no way I would gamble on Stoudamire. As for Amare declining... Almost across the board his stats over the last two years are below his career averages. That is pretty much the definition of declining.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

And let's get this straight - Amare does not score in the "post".... there is a difference between scoring inside and being able to post up. I just don't think Amare is worth the money, and it wouldn't be Deng straight up... it would be Deng + something... we're talking potentially valuable assets we'd lose in addition to Deng


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

caseyrh said:


> Statistically Amare looks a bit better. But IMHO Deng is the better player. He is a much better rebounder and defender for his postion. Two things which are extremeley valuable. And show up in stats like adjusted plus minus. Which basically shows that the Bulls are much better with Deng on the court and somehow the Suns are much worse with Stoudamire on the court. That is pretty scary for a guy who is supposed to be your best or second best player. There is no way I would gamble on Stoudamire. As for Amare declining... Almost across the board his stats over the last two years are below his career averages. That is pretty much the definition of declining.


Well, your opinion is wrong. I'm not buying it either. But be happy with Deng. As a Suns fan, I don't want him in return and/or TT. Suns won't settle for the crap offer anyway. 

Last 2 yrs, Shaq was clogging up the lane, and being the main focus with Porter (for some ungodly stupid reason) and the eye injury. Look at game logs for this yr and overall montly avgs in Dec/Jan and the difference. He's getting back into shape after having to lay down for 20 hrs a day for a month to drain his eye. His pts are going up and his rebounding, which is the best I've seen his career like the aforementioned effort. His numbers will continue to go up.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Put it this way... if Nash and Stoudemire can't win a ring... why would Rose and Stoudemire be able to?


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> I'd trade Deng for Amare in a split second. The Bulls are not going to be anything more than mediocre until they get a post presence especially on the offensive end. Amare has his problems but the one thing he does well is score inside. * You can replace Deng with a handful of players but for as much problem that the Bulls have had at acquiring an inside player you would certainly have to jump at Amare if the opportunity presents itself*.


If we only look at scoring and rebounding. Here are their positional ranks:
Amare scoring:ranked 4th in the NBA for pf (according to espn)
Amare rebounding: ranked 8th
Deng scoring: ranked 8th among NBA SF in scoring 
Deng Rebounding: ranked 2nd 

This obviously does not point to the enormous gap in defense...

Is Deng really the easier player to replace?

Not to mention 2 of the three guys that outscore Amare are going to be Free agents. (Bosh and Nowitski). And personally I would much rather have (boozer, Bosh, Lee, and Dirk). The only FA SF I would rather have then Deng is (LBJ) who is the best player in the NBA. Personally I don't see why we can't address PF this offseason. Without gambling on Amare.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Well, if I was running the team, I'd try to do a combination of your moves, including one other move.


#1. Deng and Taj to the Wolves for Kevin Love and Brian Cardinal. We get a post scorer, and the Wolves have Love and Jefferson duplicating eachother, and they need a SF. Taj is young and has potential as a rebounder and defender to better compliment Jefferson.
#2. Tyrus, Miller and our 1st (Lotto Protected) to the Suns for Amare Stoudemire. Amare isn't going to net the Suns a ton, as already illustrated by their inability to trade him. Tyrus is young and could be a star if he ever got good coaching and in the right system. Throw in cap savings and a 1st rounder and it's a no brainer IMO. I also have a very high opinion of Tyrus though, I just don't think the Bulls do or I wouldn't trade him.
#3. James Johnson to the Rockets for Chase Budinger and Joey Dorsey. Chase is the shooter we need to space the floor. Budinger is shooting well and showing that he can be a quality SF. 8.3 PPG in only 18 minutes, 36% 3pt shooting and 42% FG, along with 80% FT. He has a pretty good rebound rate, assist to turnover ratio, and isn't a foul machine like most rooks. Can attack the rim, but most important is his 3pt shooting to space the floor.

Pick up Joe Johnson (or Wade) as a free agent. There ya have it. Roster next year:

Derrick Rose, Kirk Hinrich
Joe Johnson, John Salmons
Chase Budinger, John Salmons
Amare Stoudemire, Joakim Noah, Joey Dorsey
Kevin Love, Joakim Noah


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Well, if I was running the team, I'd try to do a combination of your moves, including one other move.
> 
> 
> #1. Deng and Taj to the Wolves for Kevin Love and Brian Cardinal. We get a post scorer, and the Wolves have Love and Jefferson duplicating eachother, and they need a SF. Taj is young and has potential as a rebounder and defender to better compliment Jefferson.
> ...


unrealistic...
Bulls wouldn't be able to get Love or Amare for that and it would be almost impossible to fit all of these guys under the cap.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Well, if I was running the team, I'd try to do a combination of your moves, including one other move.
> 
> 
> #1. Deng and Taj to the Wolves for Kevin Love and Brian Cardinal. We get a post scorer, and the Wolves have Love and Jefferson duplicating eachother, and they need a SF. Taj is young and has potential as a rebounder and defender to better compliment Jefferson.
> ...


Trades one and two wont work. Where would Noah play? Do we bring Love off of the bench?

Miller and #1 wont get us Amare. 

As for trade #3, if I was a Rockets fan, I wouldnt do that trade. Yes Chase is a shooter we may need, but he is needed in Houston as well.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Trading Deng would give Salmons the 3 spot again, where Salmons did a pretty good job at after Deng went down last season. Even if Deng could have made the difference in the series against the Celtics, would they have gotten past the Magic in the second round?

Amar'e does almost all the things Deng does except in a larger package: mid-range shooting, cutting to the basket, and occasional offensive rebounding. At the very least defensively, he would lessen the gap the Bulls have against big, physical teams, such as the Lakers, Cavs, and Celtics, that have manhandled Joakim.

If the Bulls are confident they can re-sign him after this season, it would be a pretty easy trade to make.

Bulls get: Stoudemire, salary match filler
Suns get: Deng, Thomas, salary match filler
Swap 1st round picks, swap 2nd round picks

Depth Chart
Rose
Hinrich
Salmons
Stoudemire
Noah

Gibson
Brown
Miller
Johnson
Pargo
?
?
?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I would not quit being a Bulls fan if we traded Deng for Amare. I just think we need to keep Deng to trade for a better FA imo. 

I know we have Salmons at SF. But who will we have next season if Salmons opts out?


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> I know we have Salmons at SF. But who will we have next season if Salmons opts out?


LeBron, haha.

Well, if Salmons opts out, that means more cap room. If JJ can step up defensively at least he could fill the SF void.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> I'd trade Deng for Amare in a split second....You can replace Deng with a handful of players (imo, at least two dozen)...





thebizkit69u said:


> ...losing Deng's contract in the long run is a plus even if Amare does not come with a new contract.





yodurk said:


> I would trade Deng as a central piece. Amare is a much more dangerous scorer, and is no more likely to have injury problems than Deng is...Amare brings better upside, even if 3 years older.





Organized Chaos said:


> Deng is not better than Amare. No way you can even justify it. And he's not on the decline.





DaBabyBullz said:


> Well, if I was running the team, I'd try to do a combination of your moves, including one other move...





Organized Chaos said:


> Well, your opinion is wrong. I'm not buying it either. But be happy with Deng. As a Suns fan, I don't want him in return and/or TT. Suns won't settle for the crap offer anyway...





TwinkieTowers said:


> Trading Deng would give Salmons the 3 spot again, where Salmons did a pretty good job at after Deng went down last season. Even if Deng could have made the difference in the series against the Celtics, would they have gotten past the Magic in the second round?
> 
> Amar'e does almost all the things Deng does except in a larger package: mid-range shooting, cutting to the basket, and occasional offensive rebounding. At the very least defensively, he would lessen the gap the Bulls have against big, physical teams, such as the Lakers, Cavs, and Celtics, that have manhandled Joakim...


It is soooooooooooooooo true … excellent comments.

Pax, please do it now, before it too late !


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> Amar'e does almost all the things Deng does except in a larger package: mid-range shooting, cutting to the basket, and occasional offensive rebounding. At the very least defensively, he would lessen the gap the Bulls have against big, physical teams, such as the Lakers, Cavs, and Celtics, that have manhandled Joakim.


Amare does not do all of the things Deng does... 
A.) Deng is _much_ better defensiveley.
B.) For his position Deng is a _much_ better rebounder.

Not to mention Amare is the second most turnover prone PF and pretty much the worst passing big in the NBA.

If you think we would be a better defensive team with Amare playing PF vs. gibson/TT you are soreley mistaken. 

Whats Amare is is a very good finisher, he does not have a good post game or a great midrange jumper... He doesn't pass well, Doesn't play D and doesn't rebound. The fact that Amare even gets the rebounding numbers he does is basically a byproduct of not having anyone else on the team who can rebound. How many rebounds do you think he would get alongside Noah?

He is one of these guys who's rep is way bigger than his production. How do you argue the fact that Phoenix plays better with him off the court than on it? Is it because his backups (robin lopez, david anderson, etc..) are so good?

The best part about it is that the only real knock on Deng is his injury concerns and contract. So we trade him for a onetrick pony with bigger injury concerns and a bigger contract? Not going to happen...

Amare is the sexy pick nothing more...


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

TwinkieTowers said:


> LeBron, haha.
> 
> Well, if Salmons opts out, that means more cap room. If JJ can step up defensively at least he could fill the SF void.


JJ? He would have to really improve for us to play him more next year. He has the handles, he is very athletic, and seems to be able to hit the 3. Needs to play under control. Oh God, another TT. 

We would need a back up Sf either from the draft or trade.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Amare is not a better defender than Deng. That is another reason why I dont want Deng included in the package.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Rebounding would be a wash (Salmons -3 vs. Deng, Stoudemire +3 vs. Gibson), but Stoudemire's 9+ rebounding is still better than Eddy Curry's when he was on the Bulls. Luol Deng is a good perimeter rebounder, though.

Essentially, the Bulls would be giving up length at the 3 but adding size and strength at the 4. With Joakim and Gibson battling plantar faciitis and Miller and Thomas not really providing much rebounds I think getting Amare could help a lot. Of course, that would mean JJ would need to step up (though getting Devin Brown should help).

I don't discredit Deng at all, because he's been a wonderful glue SF, but there's no way he's more valuable than Stoudemire. There's a reason why he's a free throw magnet, five-time All-Star, and three-time All-NBA player.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I guess I still don't get it... if Nash and Stoudemire can't win a ring, why would Rose and Stoudemire... and if he isn't going to take us to the promised land then what the hell is the point?


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

caseyrh said:


> unrealistic...
> Bulls wouldn't be able to get Love or Amare for that and it would be almost impossible to fit all of these guys under the cap.


Did you read the article? They said that the Wolves are interested in Deng and no one is off limits. I think given how good Taj has been playing, and Luol too, that those 2 for Love makes sense if they strike out on Gay and w/e other SF they had on their hit list.

As for Amare, obviously they're not finding many takers for him. Tyrus they were said to like, and I think they will value him more like I do. Quite high. So they're getting a young cheap player, a 1st and cap relief for a guy they may lose for nothing. 

And yes they could fit them under the cap. All the trades worked out on trade checker. Unless you're referring to not being able to grab Johnson with Amare's contract on the books instead of expirings. Then you'd have a point I spose.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

truebluefan said:


> Trades one and two wont work. Where would Noah play? Do we bring Love off of the bench?
> 
> Miller and #1 wont get us Amare.
> 
> As for trade #3, if I was a Rockets fan, I wouldnt do that trade. Yes Chase is a shooter we may need, but he is needed in Houston as well.


What do you mean they wouldn't work? They worked on trade checker. Noah could backup both positions, or pair with either of them to give more shot blocking and D. 96 minutes between the 2 positions, and 3 guys. 32 minutes each, give or take depending on matchups, fouls and injuries. Works for me.

Miller, Tyrus and #1 for Amare.

Well, depends on what other people thought of JJ. He has looked good at times. I've never been a fan and wanted Budinger in the draft, and he looked like the superior player last night as well. You never know what other teams would want. I'd give a future 1st and a trade exemption for him if they don't want JJ.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> *Rebounding would be a wash (Salmons -3 vs. Deng, Stoudemire +3 vs. Gibson*), but Stoudemire's 9+ rebounding is still better than Eddy Curry's when he was on the Bulls. Luol Deng is a good perimeter rebounder, though.
> 
> Essentially, the Bulls would be giving up length at the 3 but adding size and strength at the 4. With Joakim and Gibson battling plantar faciitis and Miller and Thomas not really providing much rebounds I think getting Amare could help a lot. Of course, that would mean JJ would need to step up (though getting Devin Brown should help).


Not true... Amare plays 10 more minutes per game than Gibson. Deng only play 4 more minutes per game than Salmons. Plus Deng out rebounds salmons by 4 (not 3). And Amare outrebounds gibson by 2 (not 3). Even if Amare maintains the same rebounding rate (which I doubt he would because Noah is a much better rebounder than anyone Amare plays with) we are looking at almost a -3 rebounding differential from this trade rumor.

Huge difference.

And I don't see why Amare's extra weight would mean anything to the bulls if he is not going to rebound or play D.

Also you have to look at this going forward. We could easily sign Amare this offseason if we wanted without gibing up Deng. But more importantly there are about 7 or 8 players that are obviously much better than him due to be FA this offseason.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Dornado said:


> I guess I still don't get it... if Nash and Stoudemire can't win a ring, why would Rose and Stoudemire... and if he isn't going to take us to the promised land then what the hell is the point?


If Calderon and Bosh can't win a ring, why would Rose and Bosh? If Williams and Boozer can't win a ring, why would Rose and Boozer?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> If Calderon and Bosh can't win a ring, why would Rose and Bosh? If Williams and Boozer can't win a ring, why would Rose and Boozer?


I actually do think the same thing about Boozer... Bosh I sort of like... I feel like he has yet to realize his full potential (whereas Stoudemire has declined, if anything) and that Calderon isn't on the same level as Nash, Williams, or what I hope Rose to be.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Did you read the article? They said that the Wolves are interested in Deng and no one is off limits. I think given how good Taj has been playing, and Luol too, that those 2 for Love makes sense if they strike out on Gay and w/e other SF they had on their hit list.
> 
> As for Amare, obviously they're not finding many takers for him. Tyrus they were said to like, and I think they will value him more like I do. Quite high. So they're getting a young cheap player, a 1st and cap relief for a guy they may lose for nothing.
> 
> *And yes they could fit them under the cap. All the trades worked out on trade checker. Unless you're referring to not being able to grab Johnson with Amare's contract on the books instead of expirings. Then you'd have a point I spose.*


Not buying it...

As for the comment in bold:
Yes I mean that they wouldn't be able to sign JJ with Amare and all of the other contracts we would be taking back in your trade proposal in addition to keeping Hinrich and Salmons which you put on the roster. Basically you are removing Deng, JJ, and Taj from next years payroll and adding Amare, J Johnson, Love, Budinger, Dorsey to it. In a favorible scenario if I assume Amare and JJ both take less than max contracts and get 15 mil a piece. And I couldn't find it but lets say Budinger makes 1.5 mil next year. So we would be adding 36.5 mil to our team. if we let everyone not under contract walk. Than we would have a payroll of 60 mil. Looks like the cap is going to be much more in the range of 54-56 mil. some people say less some people say more but everyone says it is going down not up. 

So unless you can figure out a way to get Amare and JJ to take a huge discount to play with us. it won't happen. Not to mention Amare has a player option for 17.8 mil next year that he could exercise and completeley f this scenario. 

Plus this would be the worst defensive starting 5 in the NBA. Maybe one of the worst all time defensive starting lineups.

That being said. I would do Deng and Gibson for love+ expiring in a heartbeat...
I just know Minnesota wouldnt. We would cut like 8 mil in cap room and get one of the better young pf's in the game for super cheap. Sign me up.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

I wonder if the Lakers would have traded for Deng over Gasol -- assuming Kobe stayed on the Lakers, of course.

That said, compare Gasol's numbers with Stoudemire's and then tell me if you still think Deng is more valuable than Stoudemire.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> If Calderon and Bosh can't win a ring, why would Rose and Bosh? If Williams and Boozer can't win a ring, why would Rose and Boozer?


This was a flawed and silly arguement to begin with.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> I wonder if the Lakers would have traded for Deng over Gasol -- assuming Kobe stayed on the Lakers, of course.
> 
> That said, compare Gasol's numbers with Stoudemire's and then tell me if you still think Deng is more valuable than Stoudemire.


I don't understand???
Are you saying Amare is better than Gasol? If so how does that relate to this discussion or have anything to do with Deng? BTW i dissagree with Amare even being in the same league as gasol.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

I definitely wouldn't mind Amar'e. If our number one target is Wade is 2010, then we want our SF ideally to be a 3 point money maker(Deng is not). Trade Deng+Tyrus+Hinrich+1st rounder for Dragic+Amar'e+Amundson+Collins. The Suns wanted to trade Shaq for Deng as they were hot for him so I don't see why they would have cooled off on Deng(especially since his value has increased). 

Dragic no longer has to worry about getting dunked on by Rose.... in a game. Tyrus is a one year tryout for Phoenix, if they like him they re-sign him, if not they let him go. Hinrich can play the 2 guard for them and replace Nash when he wants to hang it up.

Just imagine Rose and Amar'e on the pick and roll. Sick.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

P to the Wee said:


> I definitely wouldn't mind Amar'e. If our number one target is Wade is 2010, then we want our SF ideally to be a 3 point money maker(Deng is not). Trade *Deng+Tyrus+Hinrich+1st rounder for Dragic+Amar'e+Amundson+Collins*. The Suns wanted to trade Shaq for Deng as they were hot for him so I don't see why they would have cooled off on Deng(especially since his value has increased).
> 
> Dragic no longer has to worry about getting dunked on by Rose.... in a game. Tyrus is a one year tryout for Phoenix, if they like him they re-sign him, if not they let him go. Hinrich can play the 2 guard for them and replace Nash when he wants to hang it up.
> 
> Just imagine Rose and Amar'e on the pick and roll. Sick.


That's way too much to give up.


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## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Not happening....

Amare wanted (assume he still does) a max extension, and those good olde days in terms of NBA deals are gone. Amare is a very good player - but not a GREAT PLAYER. But he wants that type of money.

There's a whole lot of teams out there who are in a world of deep financial hurt, and the total face amount of current "sunk" contracts across the NBA is frightening. The Bulls in the past contributed to that - JR has learned that lesson well, and does not intend to go back.

There's a number of teams who are going to be doing giveaway deals for good players just to cut their current operating losses. IMO, the Suns are living in a dream world for what they want to get for Amare, knowing that he's going to be up for a new contract.

JR can (and apparently has) cut JP & Gar Forman a fair piece of slack (opened up the vault) to make some deals, which btw, is pretty impressive in relationship to the number of franchises who are going to be making some player giveaway deals to cut back their operating costs.

There's not a lot of buyers out there in the NBA talent marketplace right now - the Bulls appear to be one of them. But they're going to be smart about it, and they are not going to overpay.

Wait for it....


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

If phoenix only wanted Deng for Amare, we should throw in a dinner at Ruth Chris for their management. Why would you not trade Deng for an already all-star 4/5?

Do that and slide Salmon to the 3. 

Rose
Hinrich
Salmon
Amare
Noah

Thats a good team. Add another FA like Wade or Johnson to the mix in the summer, we would be pretty set.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> If Calderon and Bosh can't win a ring, why would Rose and Bosh? If Williams and Boozer can't win a ring, why would Rose and Boozer?


Rose better than Calderon
Bosh better than Boozer
Rose = Williams next year.

But I do agree that a Bosh and Rose team does not win a championship alone, they would need one really damn good 3 point shooter and great perimeter defender to be a championship caliber team.

The perimeter defender is needed to slow down Wade and Lebron and the 3 point shooter is needed on those drive and kick situations. Bosh really does a great job of stretching the defense and making those driving lanes better for Rose.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Rose better than Calderon
> Bosh better than Boozer
> Rose = Williams next year.
> 
> ...


Maybe you're assuming we have this given our current roster - but interior D is really as important to winning a championship as anything. If we did pursue Bosh (or any of these bigs... none of which are known for their defense) we need to hold on to Noah, and assuming Thomas is gone, add another defensive minded guy underneath.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Maybe you're assuming we have this given our current roster - but interior D is really as important to winning a championship as anything. If we did pursue Bosh (or any of these bigs... none of which are known for their defense) we need to hold on to Noah, and assuming Thomas is gone, add another defensive minded guy underneath.


IMO perimeter defense in the East is more important than a really good post defender, Noah really is not that good of a post defender either so if you are looking of a good post defender you are going to need to look somewhere else. 

Bosh also requires the opposing team to move its best post defender farther away from the Basket so in a sense we are somewhat neutralizing the need for a great post defender. Obviously it all depends on match ups like if we had to face the Magic in the playoff's but for now I think we would need to worry about guys like Wade, Lebron, Johnson and the Celtics perimeter players.

But thats if we ever do become a championship contending team.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I guess we'll just have to disagree on that point - perimeter defense is certainly important, but being able to protect the rim, to me, is the most vital. It is something that all of the great teams in NBA history have had in common.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Minnesota is probably going to be involved any trade with Stoudemire for sure. Steve Kerr has his eyes on Rubio's draft rights, which means the Bulls could end up getting either Stoudemire, Love, or Jefferson.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> Minnesota is probably going to be involved any trade with Stoudemire for sure. Steve Kerr has his eyes on Rubio's draft rights, which means the Bulls could end up getting either Stoudemire, Love, or Jefferson.


If that was the case and the Bulls felt it was absoluteley neccessary to trade for one of those guys I say this is the order
1.)Love
2.)Jefferson



3.)Amare

But personally I would much rather just move hinrich and Salmons for expirings. Hinrich more importantly. Hold onto Deng and try to hit it big in FA next year. If we have two max contracts there is a chance we could _really_ hit it big. I am not ruling out the possility of James _and_ Bosh until they sign somewhere else. I can't figure out why both of them wouldn't want max contracts, big endorsement deals, and win every championship for the next 5 plus years with the Bulls. So i am hoping we hold out for that. I am confident that Rose, Noah, and Deng can get us into the playoffs this year with only marginal players in return for Hinrich and Salmons.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

caseyrh said:


> Not buying it...
> 
> As for the comment in bold:
> Yes I mean that they wouldn't be able to sign JJ with Amare and all of the other contracts we would be taking back in your trade proposal in addition to keeping Hinrich and Salmons which you put on the roster. Basically you are removing Deng, JJ, and Taj from next years payroll and adding Amare, J Johnson, Love, Budinger, Dorsey to it. In a favorible scenario if I assume Amare and JJ both take less than max contracts and get 15 mil a piece. And I couldn't find it but lets say Budinger makes 1.5 mil next year. So we would be adding 36.5 mil to our team. if we let everyone not under contract walk. Than we would have a payroll of 60 mil. Looks like the cap is going to be much more in the range of 54-56 mil. some people say less some people say more but everyone says it is going down not up.
> ...


Well, would you be able to sign both JJ and Amare if Salmons were traded or opted out? He definitely wouldn't have to be retained in that scenario. I think our D would be fine too, if you had Kirk at the point, JJ isn't bad, and Noah starting along with Love/Amare. Budinger doesn't play great D, but he didn't look bad at it against us the other day. The defense is a large part of the reason I like Tyrus, and why I didn't trade away Noah in that scenario. My main point though, was that if they're not going to give Tyrus a legit chance here, which they're not, we may as well trade him for Amare if we can get a reasonable deal like that. Deng for Love is a no brainer to me. If you trade Deng, you pretty much have to get a guy like Budinger who can shoot the 3...I also figured if we got 2 cheap rookies like Love and Budinger, it would help the cap situation.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/slow-down-on-stoudemire-to-bulls-rumors.html



KC Johnson said:


> The Bulls could've traded for Stoudemire last season, but opted not to. He's certainly on their radar and discussions between now and the Feb. 18 trade deadline will take place. However, to label him the Bulls' top priority is overstating matters.


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