# Decision of "The Unmentionable One".....



## TwinkieFoot

I think it is starting to become a little clear that we might need an heir apparent for the Team President position not named Isiah Thomas. Donnie Walsh has had 2 major surgeries in the past 2 years and I think his health ultimately filtered into "the unmentionable one's" decision to head to Miami. I can't help but feel we could have been a little bit more crafty and a lot more aggressive in upgrading the team to prevent this trio from heading to Miami.

An article in the New York Post today alluded to this fact, stating the Miami trio had long since decided they wanted to play with each other but had no specific destination set aside. I can't help but feel then that had the Knicks been as aggressive with all 3 as they had been with "the unmentionable one" that maybe we would be the one's bringing "Hollywood" to our arena. After all, Dwayne Wade just said he wasn't going to stay with the Heat had they not landed "the unmentionable one" and Chris Bosh. Bosh had no allegiances other than his current teammates and clearly "the unmentionable one" is just a media-whore/coattail jockey.

Aside from Miami, the Knicks had the most cap space to offer and logistically had an ability to add all 3. The Raptors had been reportedly looking to dump Hedo Turkoglu's contract and I can't help but feel a move utilizing Eddy Curry and a young play could have successfully landed Hedo Turkoglu AND Chris Bosh. This move would have effectively turned Curry's contract into an all-star and we still would have had the opportunity for two more max contracts ($33 million cap space) in sign and trade deals (much better than what their respective teams received from the Heat). We also still had David Lee's contract that could have been parlayed into what we got from the Warriors, and then have those very same players redirected to either the Heat or Cavs with our current pieces.


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## Gotham2krazy

Honestly if they had all gone to a neutral team instead (i.e. Knicks or Nets), I would've given #6 much more respect... but to go out and be a role player like that, that's just a b!tchazz move.


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## 29380

The Decision was made along time ago.


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## TwinkieFoot

Gotham2krazy said:


> Honestly if they had all gone to a neutral team instead (i.e. Knicks or Nets), I would've given #6 much more respect... but to go out and be a role player like that, that's just a b!tchazz move.


I honestly think that is what they wanted to do. Plus they get to have their cake and eat it to. Wade would be closer to his kids in Chicago. Bosh would no longer be an unknown. And "the unmentionable one" would have gotten most of the credit for seemingly orchestrating all of this; something you know he wouldn't shy away from. To top things off, all that "you can be a billionaire" talk certainly would still apply and would have given us an edge against Miami assuming we offered the same opportunity to play with each other. You got to wonder whether Walsh's condition prevented him from pursuing all these options. In either case, he's to old and in to poor a condition to not have his successor immediately involved in this rebuilding/retooling process of ours. I would like to enable some continuity between Walsh transitioning out and his successor transitioning in, so that there will be no issue with D'Antoni.

P.S., "the unmentionable one" making this "decision" in MIA or even in NYK is a bitch move in my book as well. I certainly wouldn't have stopped it though since the Knicks to me are bigger than any one player's legacy.


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## Gotham2krazy

TwinkieFoot said:


> I honestly think that is what they wanted to do. Plus they get to have their cake and eat it to. Wade would be closer to his kids in Chicago. Bosh would no longer be an unknown. And "the unmentionable one" would have gotten most of the credit for seemingly orchestrating all of this; something you know he wouldn't shy away from. To top things off, all that "you can be a billionaire" talk certainly would still apply and would have given us an edge against Miami assuming we offered the same opportunity to play with each other. You got to wonder whether Walsh's condition prevented him from pursuing all these options. In either case, he's to old and in to poor a condition to not have his successor immediately involved in this rebuilding/retooling process of ours. I would like to enable some continuity between Walsh transitioning out and his successor transitioning in, so that there will be no issue with D'Antoni.
> 
> P.S., "the unmentionable one" making this "decision" in MIA or even in NYK is a bitch move in my book as well. I certainly wouldn't have stopped it though since the Knicks to me are bigger than any one player's legacy.


The reason why I think #6 shied away from New York was because:

a.) If you don't perform here, you're going to get killed.
b.) Because D'Antoni sucks (regardless of what has been said, nobody wants to get coached by a total control freak who doesn't coach defense)

Moreover, in my eyes #6 and Bosh simply became role players because prior to them arriving this was "Wade's" team and so going to South Beach makes them look like recruitment. All-in-all, Bosh and #6 just dicked themselves over because they'll never have their jerseys retired.


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## thaKEAF

Gotham2krazy said:


> Honestly if they had all gone to a neutral team instead (i.e. Knicks or Nets), I would've given #6 much more respect... but to go out and be a role player like that, that's just a b!tchazz move.


I still don't understand how you or anybody can call him a role player. Miami has been Wade's team..we understand that..but LeBron is the biggest star in the NBA..who's to say he won't dominate this team? Who would be the bitchazz if they all signed to New York or New Jersey? Because either way somebody would have to defer to someone else.


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## Dre

So Twinkiefoot you really think a deciding factor in LeBron's decision was Walsh being in a wheelchair when they met?


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## Ben

Gotham2krazy said:


> Moreover, in my eyes #6 and Bosh simply became role players because prior to them arriving this was "Wade's" team and so going to South Beach makes them look like recruitment. All-in-all, Bosh and #6 just dicked themselves over because they'll never have their jerseys retired.


If we win 2 or more championships with these guys, they'll get their jerseys retired. Remember Miami is the same franchise that retired Michael Jordan's #23, who didn't even play for us.


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## Hyperion

I hear that the Post had some bad photos of him mom, and he was worried about protecting her from the press in NYC.


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## Dre

I heard a long time ago the main pitfall to New York that people ignored is the press...noone deserves to be subjected to their bull****.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> So Twinkiefoot you really think a deciding factor in LeBron's decision was Walsh being in a wheelchair when they met?


I think watching a shriveled up, unhealthy Donnie Walsh, doesn't exactly inspire confidence in a franchise; just like a shriveled up John McCain didn't exactly inspire our nation (that and the fact that the other guy was simply a better candidate, lol). When you commit to any business you want some semblance of stability and the possibility of a guy your committing to not being around (to be held accountable) isn't confidence-inspiring. I'm certain that "the unmentionable one's" decision was swayed by the possibility of playing with his friends, but even then, you got to wonder whether Donnie's health was a reason why the idea of all 3 coming to NYK was never pursued.


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## Gotham2krazy

FX™ said:


> If we win 2 or more championships with these guys, they'll get their jerseys retired. Remember Miami is the same franchise that retired Michael Jordan's #23, who didn't even play for us.


I forgot about that... maybe they will retire his jersey after all lol it'll be fun to watch nonetheless


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## Dre

TwinkieFoot said:


> I think watching a shriveled up, unhealthy Donnie Walsh, doesn't exactly inspire confidence in a franchise; just like a shriveled up John McCain didn't exactly inspire our nation (that and the fact that the other guy was simply a better candidate, lol). When you commit to any business you want some semblance of stability and the possibility of a guy your committing to not being around (to be held accountable) isn't confidence-inspiring. I'm certain that "the unmentionable one's" decision was swayed by the possibility of playing with his friends, but even then, you got to wonder whether Donnie's health was a reason why the idea of all 3 coming to NYK was never pursued.


I heard he was discouraged by Walsh being in that wheelchair, but ultimately that's no deciding factor. It certainly didn't help though.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> I heard a long time ago the main pitfall to New York that people ignored is the press...noone deserves to be subjected to their bull****.


True but you got to admit that with Wade and Bosh here that the scrutiny would be much less. In fact, the media likely would kiss his ass since the link to NYK was him. He would likely be perceived as the guy that brought those two along.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> I heard he was discouraged by Walsh being in that wheelchair, but ultimately that's no deciding factor. It certainly didn't help though.


I don't recall ever saying it was. I'm just wondering if Walsh's health is interfering with his ability to properly run this team.


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## Gotham2krazy

thaKEAF said:


> I still don't understand how you or anybody can call him a role player. Miami has been Wade's team..we understand that..but LeBron is the biggest star in the NBA..who's to say he won't dominate this team? Who would be the bitchazz if they all signed to New York or New Jersey? Because either way somebody would have to defer to someone else.


Prior to this I would've thought that LeBron had the guts to man up and take on a challenge but I've come to realize that LeBron has to defer cause he's not the man and never will be. He doesn't have what it takes to lead so he simply chooses to be the recruitment of Wade and play in his shadows, simple as that.:mrt:


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## TwinkieFoot

Gotham2krazy said:


> The reason why I think #6 shied away from New York was because:
> 
> a.) If you don't perform here, you're going to get killed.
> b.) Because D'Antoni sucks (regardless of what has been said, nobody wants to get coached by a total control freak who doesn't coach defense)
> 
> Moreover, in my eyes #6 and Bosh simply became role players because prior to them arriving this was "Wade's" team and so going to South Beach makes them look like recruitment. All-in-all, Bosh and #6 just dicked themselves over because they'll never have their jerseys retired.


A lot of the sets team USA ran actually was stuff D'Antoni came up with. The reason those 3 want to play together is because of that experience that got them so close. We had the orchestrator of that (indirectly), which I would consider as another advantage we had over the Heat. I also think those 3 will figure out a way to win together. Worrying about "being kill for not performing" would not be a concern. They are automatically the 2nd best team with only 5 players under contract, LOL.


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## TwinkieFoot

thaKEAF said:


> I still don't understand how you or anybody can call him a role player. Miami has been Wade's team..we understand that..but LeBron is the biggest star in the NBA..who's to say he won't dominate this team? Who would be the bitchazz if they all signed to New York or New Jersey? Because either way somebody would have to defer to someone else.


I think had those three signed with either New York or New Jersey, the perception of all this would have been much better. Both of those teams were neutral, so no player would necessarily lay claim to it as an incumbant. For Christ-sake, they renamed Dade County, Wade County because everyone knows that the Heat was Miami's team. The fact of the matter is that both Dwayne Wade and "the unmentionable one's" legacy was tarnished by this pairing, no matter what city they would play in.


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## BullNuts

http://www.basketballforum.com/chicago-bulls/444209-heat-curse.html

join the heat curse


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## IbizaXL

I still dont understand this logic of "tarnished legacies". hilarious.


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## Da Grinch

as much as people want to say "The Unmentionable One" is a penis passenger on the wade express, its not true .

case in point remember back when Allan Houston was the heir apparent to stardom in nyc but then they acquired Sprewell and it became easily and quickly Latrell's team.

its the same deal here ...the better more exciting more likeable player will rule the team as far as fans are concerned ...and that guy is #6.

the only thing that could change that is wade being a better finisher than numero seis closing games, because the statline will likely have delonte's stepkid with the better numbers across the board.

i think his ego is big enough to believe that miami was in the nba before he signed with them and since he was the biggest star before 7/8 he'll continue to be that no matter who else is on his team.

its easy to call him a loser before the games count but once the heat start winning no one is gonna care , just like no one cared when k. malone, and gary payton in laker land...all that will matter is that they are entertaining to watch and probably will be the most entertaining team in the league next season.

all the aspersions people are casting on him will be turned into compliments eventually instead of the air jordan stuff they said about him they will now give him more magic-like accolades...which was how he was hyped coming out of high school anyway(magic johnson with MJ's athletic ability)its predictable and its sad in a way. 

look at it this way if magic and Mj were on the same team but Magic could jump as high if not higher than MJ who would be the fan favorite?

it wont matter how he got there , he's there and nba and its fans will deal with it.


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## Maldito21

Their decision was made a while ago. Do you guys really believe any one team would blow up their entire lineup to possibly, and thats the key word possibly, land 3 mega stars?? The Heat and Pat Riley had inside information. Next and probably most importantly, Miami is located in Florida, Florida has no state tax so even though all 3 are "Taking Pay Cuts" they really aren't losing that much. Reporters claim the 3 are losing at least 15 million each, while that's partly true had they signed the full max they could have gotten more they essential aren't losing as much as if they signed with lets say NY were they would have paid NY State tax. Instead of losing 15 million I think they actually lose roughly 6-8 million each buy not paying state taxes. I personally feel this decision was made as soon as Miami clear all there cap space.


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## Hyperion

Maldito21 said:


> Their decision was made a while ago. Do you guys really believe any one team would blow up their entire lineup to possibly, and thats the key word possibly, land 3 mega stars?? The Heat and Pat Riley had inside information. Next and probably most importantly, Miami is located in Florida, Florida has no state tax so even though all 3 are "Taking Pay Cuts" they really aren't losing that much. Reporters claim the 3 are losing at least 15 million each, while that's partly true had they signed the full max they could have gotten more they essential aren't losing as much as if they signed with lets say NY were they would have paid NY State tax. Instead of losing 15 million I think they actually lose roughly 6-8 million each buy not paying state taxes. I personally feel this decision was made as soon as Miami clear all there cap space.


That's only for NYC, the highest taxed place in the country. If they played anywhere else, the tax difference would be at most $1 million a year


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## roux

Maldito21 said:


> Their decision was made a while ago. Do you guys really believe any one team would blow up their entire lineup to possibly, and thats the key word possibly, land 3 mega stars?? The Heat and Pat Riley had inside information. Next and probably most importantly, Miami is located in Florida, Florida has no state tax so even though all 3 are "Taking Pay Cuts" they really aren't losing that much. Reporters claim the 3 are losing at least 15 million each, while that's partly true had they signed the full max they could have gotten more they essential aren't losing as much as if they signed with lets say NY were they would have paid NY State tax. Instead of losing 15 million I think they actually lose roughly 6-8 million each buy not paying state taxes. I personally feel this decision was made as soon as Miami clear all there cap space.


dude, the knicks did that... they made no effort to win over the past two seasons, dumped first round picks so they wouldnt have to pay them.. the knicks were just as disgusting in their aproach to free agency as miami was


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## 29380

roux2dope said:


> dude, the knicks did that... they made no effort to win over the past two seasons, dumped first round picks so they wouldnt have to pay them.. the knicks were just as disgusting in their aproach to free agency as miami was


And it would have work too if it wasn't for Pat Riley.


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## roux

Knicks4life said:


> And it would have work too if it wasn't for Pat Riley.


haha...scooby dooby doo

dont worry you always got next year which is just stacked with top free agents again


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## TwinkieFoot

IbizaXL said:


> I still dont understand this logic of "tarnished legacies". hilarious.


Probably because of that whole "I'm a Miami Heat fan" thing you got going on.


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## Hyperion

roux2dope said:


> dude, the knicks did that... they made no effort to win over the past two seasons, dumped first round picks so they wouldnt have to pay them.. the knicks were just as disgusting in their aproach to free agency as miami was


I would say worse. The Knicks made no pretense to getting max contract players. They dumped EVERY first round pick to accumulate expiring contracts and avoided getting serviceable players to actually win games. Imagine if they actually traded FOR players over the past two years. Yeah, they would have sucked, but they would have improved. Hell, maybe they would have ended up with some damn good talent.


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## TwinkieFoot

Maldito21 said:


> Their decision was made a while ago. Do you guys really believe any one team would blow up their entire lineup to possibly, and thats the key word possibly, land 3 mega stars?? *The Heat and Pat Riley had inside information.* Next and probably most importantly, Miami is located in Florida, Florida has no state tax so even though all 3 are "Taking Pay Cuts" they really aren't losing that much. *Reporters claim the 3 are losing at least 15 million each, while that's partly true had they signed the full max they could have gotten more they essential aren't losing as much as if they signed with lets say NY were they would have paid NY State tax.* Instead of losing 15 million I think they actually lose roughly 6-8 million each buy not paying state taxes. I personally feel this decision was made as soon as Miami clear all there cap space.


1.) Alonzo Mourning already went on record stating that "this is how we knew it was going to evolve. We knew for a while." Inside information would be an understatement. As much as Chris Bosh had a hand in all of this ", the unmentionable one," I think is far more guilty. Why? Don't you think it's a little ironic that teams started dumping cap like crazy all at once? No one would do that without some sort of gaurantee; a "wink-wink" type of deal. Wade made the commitment to Miami from the beginning of the season. Chris Bosh isn't the kind of guy you gut your team for. That only really leaves one person responsible for this free-for-all.

2.) The terrible thing about all this that this whole "we took a paycut" bull****, which is just that....bull****. The fact of the matter is that when your making an 8 digit salary figure, $1 millon is hardly a sacrifice especially when you consider the publicity they'll get for doing this in a market significantly better than their previous teams. I get even more annoyed when they act as though sacrificing that 6th year of their contract is any big deal. Both "the unmentionable one" and Chris Bosh are in their mid 20's and will most certainly make that figure up in their next contract considering that they'd still be in their primes. I'm not being fooled by their nonsense.


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## TwinkieFoot

Hyperion said:


> I would say worse. The Knicks made no pretense to getting max contract players. They dumped EVERY first round pick to accumulate expiring contracts and avoided getting serviceable players to actually win games. Imagine if they actually traded FOR players over the past two years. Yeah, they would have sucked, but they would have improved. Hell, maybe they would have ended up with some damn good talent.


We dumped every first round pick? Danilo Gallinari and Toney Douglas ring a bell? We only gave up one of Walsh's selections, which was Jordan Hill who I am starting to think will be the 2nd coming of Channing Frye's mediocre self. The Heat gave up Michael Beasley, the former no.2 pick, who still has the possibility of performing like a no.2 pick. So tell me, whose worse?


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## TwinkieFoot

Knicks4life said:


> And it would have work too if it wasn't for Pat Riley.


Speaking of, talk about the **** up to end all **** up's. The Knicks should just have allowed this guy to have the front office position he wanted when he was here. He's done nothing but impress me the past few years.


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## roux

TwinkieFoot said:


> We dumped every first round pick? Danilo Gallinari and Toney Douglas ring a bell? We only gave up one of Walsh's selections, which was Jordan Hill who I am starting to think will be the 2nd coming of Channing Frye's mediocre self.


you added two firsts along with jordan hill to get tmac's expiring


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## TwinkieFoot

roux2dope said:


> you added two firsts along with jordan hill to get tmac's expiring


I'm aware. You said we traded away "every" first round pick we had, which sounded like you were talkng about our current team that we have in place. I am worried about those future first round picks but at the same time, the Rockets may very well be worse than the Knicks this upcoming season considering the improvements we've made and the lack of improvements they have. That means the Knicks would keep their pick and at the position they earned. 2012 isn't protected but at the same time, I expect the Knicks to seriously upgrade the team by that point. If not, then maybe the Mayan's were right and we'll all be dead, making it irrelevant? LOL.


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## roux

TwinkieFoot said:


> I'm aware. You said we traded away "every" first round pick we had, which sounded like you were talkng about our current team that we have in place. I am worried about those future first round picks but at the same time, the Rockets may very well be worse than the Knicks this upcoming season considering the improvements we've made and the lack of improvements they have. That means the Knicks would keep their pick and at the position they earned. 2012 isn't protected but at the same time, I expect the Knicks to seriously upgrade the team by that point. If not, then maybe the Mayan's were right and we'll all be dead, making it irrelevant? LOL.


I didnt say that you traded all your first round picks, but including them was definitely part of constructing cap space over the next few years.. i am sure next offseason you will bring in at least on more all star level player...the knicks have been too bad for too long, and that doesnt please mr stern..so you have that going for you


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## TwinkieFoot

Da Grinch said:


> as much as people want to say "The Unmentionable One" is a penis passenger on the wade express, its not true .
> 
> case in point remember back when Allan Houston was the heir apparent to stardom in nyc but then they acquired Sprewell and it became easily and quickly Latrell's team.
> 
> its the same deal here ...the better more exciting more likeable player will rule the team as far as fans are concerned ...and that guy is #6.
> 
> the only thing that could change that is wade being a better finisher than numero seis closing games, because the statline will likely have delonte's stepkid with the better numbers across the board.
> 
> i think his ego is big enough to believe that miami was in the nba before he signed with them and since he was the biggest star before 7/8 he'll continue to be that no matter who else is on his team.
> 
> its easy to call him a loser before the games count but once the heat start winning no one is gonna care , just like no one cared when k. malone, and gary payton in laker land...all that will matter is that they are entertaining to watch and probably will be the most entertaining team in the league next season.
> 
> all the aspersions people are casting on him will be turned into compliments eventually instead of the air jordan stuff they said about him they will now give him more magic-like accolades...which was how he was hyped coming out of high school anyway(magic johnson with MJ's athletic ability)its predictable and its sad in a way.
> 
> look at it this way if magic and Mj were on the same team but Magic could jump as high if not higher than MJ who would be the fan favorite?
> 
> it wont matter how he got there , he's there and nba and its fans will deal with it.


Me personally (and I'm not speaking for everyone), I think "the unmentionable one," is a penis passenger not solely because Dwayne Wade is the incumbant heir to the Miami throne but because of the fact that he would join a bandwagon this early in his career. It's not about the fact you win but the quality/integrity of that win . I honestly believe he's cheapened winning by joining such a star-studded team, where he doesn't necessarily have to lead or even be at his best to win. Adam Morrison's bum ass has a ring. Even guys that actually contributed on a championship team (e.g. a Rick Fox) don't impress me because their contributions would be irrelevant had it not been possible for the "big dogs (e.g. Shaq, Kobe). The fact of the matter is that "the unmentionable one" is a "big dog" but is taking the easy way to try to get his title, while receiving the same acclaim without the hard work. As much as I hate invoking the name of Jordan, there was no question he busted his ass to get his rings. Even Kobe busted his ass to get his rings. It's an insult to them and their accomplishments to have this dude basically coast to the Finals every year without having to do the same.

I know this post was super long so I'll try to condense the rest. Karl Malone and Gary Payton were coattail riders as well but at least they had the excuse of entering the twilight of their career. I think they cheapened their entire career by doing what they did BUT you can argue the fact that they earned the right having fought so hard all those years (on sometimes subpar team's for Payton). 

As much as you used Latrell Sprewell and Allan Houston as an example of a newbie replacing the incumbant as the alpha-dog, you know that is more the exception than the rule. To that, I would submit to you Alex Rodriquez v. Derek Jeter. Rodriquez was clearly the better SS and player but had to defer to Jeter; even giving up his position. 

I also don't think people are going to forget the circumstances of "the unmentionable's" arrival in Miami. Not only is he viewed as a coattailer BUT a prima-donna media whore. I think he's entered Alex Rodriquez terriority and that isn't the kind of perception that just ends. I think the negativity of that perception is further heightened by the fact that he is perceived as the destroyer of teams (in major states i.e. NY, CA, IL) who sacrificed so many assets for cap space to pursue him. DeShawn Stevenson has never been more popular and we have one guy to thank for that, lol.


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## thaKEAF

Gotham2krazy said:


> Prior to this I would've thought that LeBron had the guts to man up and take on a challenge but I've come to realize that LeBron has to defer cause he's not the man and never will be. He doesn't have what it takes to lead so he simply chooses to be the recruitment of Wade and play in his shadows, simple as that.:mrt:





TwinkieFoot said:


> I think had those three signed with either New York or New Jersey, the perception of all this would have been much better. Both of those teams were neutral, so no player would necessarily lay claim to it as an incumbant. For Christ-sake, they renamed Dade County, Wade County because everyone knows that the Heat was Miami's team. The fact of the matter is that both Dwayne Wade and "the unmentionable one's" legacy was tarnished by this pairing, no matter what city they would play in.


I dunno maybe I just don't take sports to heart like some or maybe I'm just big fans of LeBron/Wade. Either way though, I think the entire "ruined their legacy" thing is bull****. I mean either way his legacy would not have lived up to what the hype was due to the fact they couldn't put anybody next to him in Cleveland. He has pretty much gotten all the individual shine already. I don't see anything wrong with him going and playing with the other two guys. I thought ring chasers were guys who went to great teams with very little impact with the sole purpose of winning a ring. There's only four guys under contract for Miami right now..it's not like he's joining a championship team. How is that being a coward or pussying out? There's still in my mind a chance that they might not even make it out the East..lets not even talk about the Lakers. He needed help..it's that simple. He just left earlier than KG did, right around when Gasol did. There's MORE pressure on him and those guys for this move..not less. I understand that Miami has been Wade's team..because that's all they've had for 7 years. Why can't people visualize the fan base making it into THEIR team. The marketing team will no longer be focusing on Wade..I guarantee you that..you'll be seeing all three of them almost all the time. It's a lose/lose..if he went to New Jersey/NY with two other all-stars people would have still hated on him.


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## TwinkieFoot

thaKEAF said:


> I dunno maybe I just don't take sports to heart like some or maybe I'm just big fans of LeBron/Wade. Either way though, I think the entire "ruined their legacy" thing is bull****. I mean either way his legacy would not have lived up to what the hype was due to the fact they couldn't put anybody next to him in Cleveland. He has pretty much gotten all the individual shine already. I don't see anything wrong with him going and playing with the other two guys. I thought ring chasers were guys who went to great teams with very little impact with the sole purpose of winning a ring. There's only four guys under contract for Miami right now..it's not like he's joining a championship team. How is that being a coward or pussying out? There's still in my mind a chance that they might not even make it out the East..lets not even talk about the Lakers. He needed help..it's that simple. He just left earlier than KG did, right around when Gasol did. There's MORE pressure on him and those guys for this move..not less. I understand that Miami has been Wade's team..because that's all they've had for 7 years. Why can't people visualize the fan base making it into THEIR team. The marketing team will no longer be focusing on Wade..I guarantee you that..you'll be seeing all three of them almost all the time. It's a lose/lose..if he went to New Jersey/NY with two other all-stars people would have still hated on him.


I had no problem with him leaving Cleveland. They dug their own grave IMO, making mediocre trade after mediocre trade. It wasn't like the opportunity wasn't there to make a huge splash. They passed on Amar'e Stoudamire because they didn't want to include JJ Hickson and because Amare's contract was expiring. They only recently pursued Bosh via trade, which the Raptors agreed to but Bosh didn't. How stupid do they look now when that move could have been made when Bosh was under contract last season and had no option but to play? 

The fact of the matter is that LBJ on the Heat seems like a cop-out. He ran to a team that was going to be at least in the Confernece Finals and already had an established leadership structure. You don't do something like that as the premier player in the league and that is why he's catching so much heat. No one, whether in everyday life or sports, can appreciate someone that takes the easy way out of anything. I'm not saying he should have gone to a Cavs situation but I do think hopping onto a team with two all-stars is overkill and cowardly. No glory, no honor, no respect. He won't be getting respect from me and a lot of people if the Heat eventually win a championship.


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## 29380

Cleveland didn't do the Amare trade because he would have left after the season was over.


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## thaKEAF

I doubt he would have left..maybe depending on what LeBron did. LeBron/Amare would have been a pretty deadly combo this past playoff and both might have considered staying if the other did.


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## 29380

Bosh/Lebron would've been a deadly combo too but no all-star wants to go to Cleveland.


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## TwinkieFoot

Knicks4life said:


> Cleveland didn't do the Amare trade because he would have left after the season was over.


Let's be real for a minute, the only reason we have Amare is because we were the only team that offered him a max deal. The Cavs would have been able to do that, plus a 6th year, which a player of his caliber would definitely cave for given his injury history. He wouldn't have turned down the opportunity to earn that much money AND compete for a championship.


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## TwinkieFoot

Knicks4life said:


> Bosh/Lebron would've been a deadly combo too but no all-star wants to go to Cleveland.


You don't have a choice if you get traded under contract and besides, winning is intoxicating. Amar'e would have been smitten instantly had he been trade there. The Cavs screwed themselves over.


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## BullNuts

TwinkieFoot said:


> Me personally (and I'm not speaking for everyone), I think "the unmentionable one," is a penis passenger not solely because Dwayne Wade is the incumbant heir to the Miami throne but because of the fact that he would join a bandwagon this early in his career. It's not about the fact you win but the quality/integrity of that win . I honestly believe he's cheapened winning by joining such a star-studded team, where he doesn't necessarily have to lead or even be at his best to win. Adam Morrison's bum ass has a ring. Even guys that actually contributed on a championship team (e.g. a Rick Fox) don't impress me because their contributions would be irrelevant had it not been possible for the "big dogs (e.g. Shaq, Kobe). The fact of the matter is that "the unmentionable one" is a "big dog" but is taking the easy way to try to get his title, while receiving the same acclaim without the hard work. As much as I hate invoking the name of Jordan, there was no question he busted his ass to get his rings. Even Kobe busted his ass to get his rings. It's an insult to them and their accomplishments to have this dude basically coast to the Finals every year without having to do the same.
> 
> I know this post was super long so I'll try to condense the rest. Karl Malone and Gary Payton were coattail riders as well but at least they had the excuse of entering the twilight of their career. I think they cheapened their entire career by doing what they did BUT you can argue the fact that they earned the right having fought so hard all those years (on sometimes subpar team's for Payton).
> 
> As much as you used Latrell Sprewell and Allan Houston as an example of a newbie replacing the incumbant as the alpha-dog, you know that is more the exception than the rule. To that, I would submit to you Alex Rodriquez v. Derek Jeter. Rodriquez was clearly the better SS and player but had to defer to Jeter; even giving up his position.
> 
> I also don't think people are going to forget the circumstances of "the unmentionable's" arrival in Miami. Not only is he viewed as a coattailer BUT a prima-donna media whore. I think he's entered Alex Rodriquez terriority and that isn't the kind of perception that just ends. I think the negativity of that perception is further heightened by the fact that he is perceived as the destroyer of teams (in major states i.e. NY, CA, IL) who sacrificed so many assets for cap space to pursue him. DeShawn Stevenson has never been more popular and we have one guy to thank for that, lol.


Nicely said. The NBA has possibly become insignificant/inconsequential for the next 5 years. This damages the league. They need to call an owners meeting and structure the BA to prevent this kind of stacking of the deck.

I loved watching LA lose with Malone and Payton. The reason they lost is b/c Kobe and Shaq lost the chemistry. Malone/Payton/Kobe/Shaq is apples and oranges to the unmentionable ones.


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## TwinkieFoot

BullNuts said:


> Nicely said. The NBA has possibly become insignificant/inconsequential for the next 5 years. This damages the league. They need to call an owners meeting and structure the BA to prevent this kind of stacking of the deck.
> 
> I loved watching LA lose with Malone and Payton. The reason they lost is b/c Kobe and Shaq lost the chemistry. Malone/Payton/Kobe/Shaq is apples and oranges to the unmentionable ones.


Rumor has it that there are rumblings of a second trio of stars looking to play together (Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony and Amar'e Stoudamire). Seems like the destination will be NY since both Paul and Anthony are on aging teams, while Amar'e is locked in a 5 year contract with a team on the rise. 

I got to say that I'd love to see this happen as a Knick fan, if not for any other reason but to kick Miami's ass for the 5 year span of their trio's contract. If this trend continues, however, I think the league is going to have a problem keeping games competitive. There are far to many teams for us to have guys all going to the same team. Imagine having 24 of the league's all-stars only play for 8 of the NBA's 30 teams!


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## Gotham2krazy

IbizaXL said:


> I still dont understand this logic of "tarnished legacies". hilarious.


I don't think any legacies would be tarnished but for them to all play for a non-neutral team, that makes Wade look like the MAN (which I do not doubt) and if you want further evidence of this just look at the suits they wore at the press conference, why were Bosh and LeBron in khaki suits whereas Wade sat in the middle and wore a blue suit? 

Essentially this becomes like the Jordan, Pippen, Rodman combo only Bosh has a lot more offensive ability while Wade now steps into Jordan's shadow. And when we think back on this team in 10-15 years we will most likely think of Wade first followed by LeBron and Bosh. Surely this is a great tandem of players but I guess what fans really wanted was to see him carve out his own piece of history immortalized with the likes of Jordan, Magic, Bird, guys who were "The Man" on the team. LeBron will surely be indicted to the Hall of Fame, but at what cost to his name? 

I think ultimately his choosing of Miami had to do with the fact that he was afraid of the NYC spotlight and the intensity of Frank Isola and the likes. I guess he had a good reason not picking NYC. Regardless of what was to be, the "Decision" has already been made, we just gotta watch the show from now.


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## Gotham2krazy

TwinkieFoot said:


> Rumor has it that there are rumblings of a second trio of stars looking to play together (Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony and Amar'e Stoudamire). Seems like the destination will be NY since both Paul and Anthony are on teams that are aging, while Amar'e is locked into a 5 year team on an up and comer.


I would actually much rather watch CP3, Melo, and Amare for the sole fact that Melo is so damn crafty at scoring.


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## TwinkieFoot

Gotham2krazy said:


> I would actually much rather watch CP3, Melo, and Amare for the sole fact that Melo is so damn crafty at scoring.


Melo actually is my favorite player because of how much I admire his offensive ability. I think that if you were looking strickly at scoring, Melo would be the best player in the league because of how dynamic he is putting the ball in the basket. I also think the guy is a capable defender that can be a pain in someone's ass when he wants to assert himself on that end. The problem with him is that he doesn't "think" the game as much as he plays it. He has a certain tendency to make bone-headed decisions, especially when they matter the most. A foul here, a turnover there, a missed assist, etc. I think this is what ultimately seperates him from a Kobe Bryant, a Dwayne Wade or a particular "unmentionable one." I actually like CP3, Melo, and Amar'e much more than the Heat trio but think it'll be difficult for us to beat them. They would have 2 of the top 3 players in the series and might be able to effectively neutralize Chris Paul, who would be the engine of our team- a recipe for disaster.


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## Da Grinch

TwinkieFoot said:


> Melo actually is my favorite player because of how much I admire his offensive ability. I think that if you were looking strickly at scoring, Melo would be the best player in the league because of how dynamic he is putting the ball in the basket. I also think the guy is a capable defender that can be a pain in someone's ass when he wants to assert himself on that end. The problem with him is that he doesn't "think" the game as much as he plays it. He has a certain tendency to make bone-headed decisions, especially when they matter the most. A foul here, a turnover there, a missed assist, etc. I think this is what ultimately seperates him from a Kobe Bryant, a Dwayne Wade or a particular "unmentionable one." I actually like CP3, Melo, and Amar'e much more than the Heat trio but think it'll be difficult for us to beat them. They would have 2 of the top 3 players in the series and might be able to effectively neutralize Chris Paul, who would be the engine of our team- a recipe for disaster.


i think in essence the heat team is a redo of the bulls of the 90's but not at all a perfected version.

i think wade and lebron will avg. about 50 a game just like Pippen and jordan did , but that pippen and jordan are supreior defenders and that separates them imo until proven otherwise...i also dont think bosh is as good a fit as ho. grant or rodman , with wade and james they really dont need alot more scoring , they need defense...and bosh is a rather avg. defender, teams with speedy pg's and dominant inside players will still be the heat's achilles heel ...the bulls never quite got a handle on speedy pg's in the reg. season(for instance the year they won 72 games i think they lost to the raptors and damon stoudamire 3 times) but they were able to beat on teams who were dominant inside in their title years pretty much all year long.

i see a teams like the magic, hawks and the celts being problematic for them, they have talented insides and point guards capable of being deciding factors in various ways...the bulls of old had the option of putting pippen on point guards in the playoffs ...i dont see lebron guarding rondo , wade either especially if they then had to put an undersized pg on a 2 guard ....those bulls teams had bigger guards on them (6'6 ron harper, 6'3 kerr , 6'3 hodges, 6'5trent tucker , 6'6 bob hansen, 6'5 dennis hopson)

they could put pippen on smaller guards and not be overmatched elsewhere..they had better interior players, outside of bosh whose offensive talent may be sqaundered abit because i really dont see them going to him all that much .


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## TwinkieFoot

Da Grinch said:


> i think in essence the heat team is a redo of the bulls of the 90's but not at all a perfected version.
> 
> i think wade and lebron will avg. about 50 a game just like Pippen and jordan did , but that pippen and jordan are supreior defenders and that separates them imo until proven otherwise...i also dont think bosh is as good a fit as ho. grant or rodman , with wade and james they really dont need alot more scoring , they need defense...and bosh is a rather avg. defender, teams with speedy pg's and dominant inside players will still be the heat's achilles heel ...the bulls never quite got a handle on speedy pg's in the reg. season(for instance the year they won 72 games i think they lost to the raptors and damon stoudamire 3 times) but they were able to beat on teams who were dominant inside in their title years pretty much all year long.
> 
> i see a teams like the magic, hawks and the celts being problematic for them, they have talented insides and point guards capable of being deciding factors in various ways...the bulls of old had the option of putting pippen on point guards in the playoffs ...i dont see lebron guarding rondo , wade either especially if they then had to put an undersized pg on a 2 guard ....those bulls teams had bigger guards on them (6'6 ron harper, 6'3 kerr , 6'3 hodges, 6'5trent tucker , 6'6 bob hansen, 6'5 dennis hopson)
> 
> they could put pippen on smaller guards and not be overmatched elsewhere..they had better interior players, outside of bosh whose offensive talent may be sqaundered abit because i really dont see them going to him all that much .


I have to agree about Chris Bosh. One of the major reasons I was not a fan of adding him as a 3rd star in a scenario featuring the Knicks and the "unmentionable one," was his lack of versatility as a player beyond scoring. I felt his abilities would be best utilized next to another running mate e.g. Derrick Rose in Chicago. In spite of all of this with Bosh's length and leaping ability, I would imagine him being a frustrating help defender. I think that is where a guy like Pau Gasol earns his keep on a contender defensively as I imagine Bosh would with the Heat. Neither Gasol or Bosh are particularly good one on one defenders but there ability to successfully put a hand up does more than enough to distract/alter a shot and cause a miss. Since the game is much more perimeter oriented, I would value these qualities much more than a big man who can lock up an opposing big man on single coverage.

I think even more important than Bosh's length on the defense end is still his scoring ability. I see him maybeaveraging 17 or 18ppg but the simple fact that he is recognized as a capable scorer, serves more than enough purpose. Single coverage for Wade-"unmentionable one" is something that has been unheard of in either players recent career and Bosh permits this to happen.


You mention the Bulls and their ability to go big, being a part of their defensive prowess but the Miami Heat can do the same thing and likely will for most of the game. Mike Miller is likely going to start and Dwayne Wade at a speedy 6'4" is more than capable of defending PG's. This is a major reason why I think that even if the Knicks former their trio of Paul-Melo-Amar'e, the Heat would still win because Paul has had issues playing against bigger, physical guards (e.g. Chauncey Billups). 

Beyond that, guys like Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Jason Williams, Zydranus Ilgaukaus, Joel Anthony and Jamal Magloire are excellent role players that certainly can help fulfill the Heat's championship aspirations. I honestly, don't see much hope for the league outside of the Lakers, who I still consider to be favorites. I think that if Bynum plays up to his potential, the Lakers can attack the Heat's achilles heal....defending post-scorers on single coverage. I also think a guy like Steve Blake adds another dimension to their game since he actually gives them production at the PG position over the 47 minute period that Derek Fisher is a no show. At 6-3, I could also see Blake switching off his PG assignment on defense and onto a bigger defender like Dwayne Wade/Mike Miller, in order to give Kobe Bryant the much needed rest he'd need while on the court.


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## E.H. Munro

Gotham2krazy said:


> And when we think back on this team in 10-15 years we will most likely think of Wade first followed by LeBron and Bosh.


I'm sorry, what has Wade won since Shaq's untimely death again? Do we remember the Showtime Lakers as Kareem or James Worthy's team? Because they were the leading scorers on that squad. And by a pretty large margin at that. No one cares what you'll think about in fifteen years. Wade will play Worthy to LBJ's Magic. And when Wade fades in a couple of years, due to age/injuries, he'll be "the other guy". In a decade no one will see this as anyone elses team. Hell, five years was enough for Mr. Bean, I doubt it will take LeBron any more than that. He doesn't have legal problems of the sexual assault nature to get over.


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