# Are light-skinned blacks discriminated against in basketball?



## Da Grinch

And i dont mean that no one will let them play.

but it seems to me its extremely easy for a light skinned black person to get a soft tag put on them , unless they are toughness personified.

Its almost as if people treat them as if they were white.

Allan houston basically had that tag on him (softness) and by continuing to play through pain year after painful year , people were still saying it.

allan houston percieved as soft...but michael redd, ray allen and joe johnson aren't.

why?


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## Tragedy

You know, that is a VERY interesting observation.


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## Harry_Minge

what a load of bs


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## USSKittyHawk

Starks wasn't soft, and so was Doc Rivers. That's the only two I can think of right now.


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## ERAFF

Oh yeah!!!!!...but that's just the beginning of it!!!!

Whatever happened to the short, slow, somewhat dumpy Jewish Guys?!---Clearly, they are un-represented and under-appreciated in todays game!

Red Holtzman and Red Klotz----the end of a proud and great line!!!


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## Coatesvillain

You know, I never thought of this, but I think you hit this on the head. People will deny it full force, but you can't argue with the evidence.


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## Harry_Minge

Ok then...........then why is any white bigman automatically labelled a bust???.....look around the forum and see how much anti bogut sentiment there is and he aint even played a regular seeason game yet

no one seems to give tayshaun prince any grief about his light skin


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## R-Star

PhillyPhanatic said:


> You know, I never thought of this, but I think you hit this on the head. People will deny it full force, but you can't argue with the evidence.


Houston was soft. It wouldnt have mattered if he was black as night, soft is soft. Any poster here could name 5 dark skinned brothers as being soft. This is just searching for something thats not there.


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## ChosenFEW

WTF.....


thats BS,...its pretty much this simple,. If you can ball you can ball, if you cant you cant,....there isnt any in between there,.. and no difference between a darker skinned black person from a lighter skinned black person,...


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## Coatesvillain

R-Star said:


> Houston was soft. It wouldnt have mattered if he was black as night, soft is soft. Any poster here could name 5 dark skinned brothers as being soft. This is just searching for something thats not there.


I'm not agreeing here. I think it fits right along with the whole thing where people said Larry Bird was so hardworking, and commented on how it came naturally to Magic as if he didn't work as hard to become the player he was.

I think Da Grinch came onto a great point as a non-light skinned black. I think people rushing in to just discredit it proves there's some relevance to the observation.


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## ERAFF

Tim Thomas---Very Black...Very Soft!

Doc Rivers---he's not REALLY light skinned---he's more of a "1 Creamer"/Tung Oil on Oak Guy---a very lovely shade, if you ask me!

Sonny Parker---Remember him!!!??? Now. He was Kind of Like Doug Christie with [email protected][email protected]!

Back to the Black, Hard Nosed Guys---I guys Shaq is Pretty Dark, and very tough, I think. Walt Bellamy was Pretty Dark and Pretty Tough.

More confusing is the fact that alot of the EUROS don't seem to Suffer from the so-called WHITE MAN'S DISEASE---may be they just run and jump more than our American White Guys---althought they said David Lee wasn't Athletic...probably because he's white....BUT THEY'RE WRONG!!!

What was this thread about?


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## R-Star

PhillyPhanatic said:


> I'm not agreeing here. I think it fits right along with the whole thing where people said Larry Bird was so hardworking, and commented on how it came naturally to Magic as if he didn't work as hard to become the player he was.
> 
> I think Da Grinch came onto a great point as a non-light skinned black. I think people rushing in to just discredit it proves there's some relevance to the observation.



So now on top of everything black players are discriminated because they're considered naturaly talented?

Some people go way too far searching for racism, this is ****ing ridiculous.


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## Coatesvillain

R-Star said:


> So now on top of everything black players are discriminated because they're considered naturaly talented?
> 
> Some people go way too far searching for racism, this is ****ing ridiculous.


Who's searching for racism?

I just pointed out something that was stated plenty of times in the media. I didn't even bring anything about being discriminated, what I was doing was pointing out a stereotype. I have a great feeling if this thread was about the "big white stiff" stereotype, you wouldn't have come in here so up in arms. 

I mean, how is it fine to talk about one stereotype but not another?


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## L

kidd,duncan,kmart,houston aint soft! :curse: 
what racial bs that some people say about light-skinned black players! :curse:


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## R-Star

PhillyPhanatic said:


> Who's searching for racism?
> 
> I just pointed out something that was stated plenty of times in the media. I didn't even bring anything about being discriminated, what I was doing was pointing out a stereotype. I have a great feeling if this thread was about the "big white stiff" stereotype, you wouldn't have come in here so up in arms.
> 
> I mean, how is it fine to talk about one stereotype but not another?



Because the white stiff stereotype exists. The skilled black man who didnt have to work to get his game , it just came natural sterotype does not. Im pretty sure no one out there thinks that any player whos in the NBA didnt have to put in hard work to get the game they had. Sure, theres a few guys who come into the L as pure athletes, ala Darius Miles, but they all put in alot of work once they get into the L to improve and their skills and try to round out their games.


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## L

i believe any race in the nba can play.but this kind of **** is still being talked about, ever since black players started to play.and when the blacks started to be fun to watch and outshine a lot of white players,it proved any1 can play this sport.and u know wat was real racial bs?when bird came into the league dominated by blacks,writers called him the great white hope!wtf?!?great white hope?wat a bunch of racists some writers were! :curse: 
im so glad that kind of thinking has been shrinking,but it still exists.


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## Coatesvillain

R-Star said:


> Because the white stiff stereotype exists. The skilled black man who didnt have to work to get his game , it just came natural sterotype does not.


I didn't say didn't have to work, I said didn't have to work _*as*_ hard. If you haven't heard of that stereotype, I don't know what to say.


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## BrettNYK

Da Grinch said:


> And i dont mean that no one will let them play.
> 
> but it seems to me its extremely easy for a light skinned black person to get a soft tag put on them , unless they are toughness personified.
> 
> Its almost as if people treat them as if they were white.
> 
> Allan houston basically had that tag on him (softness) and by continuing to play through pain year after painful year , people were still saying it.
> 
> allan houston percieved as soft...but michael redd, ray allen and joe johnson aren't.
> 
> why?


Channing Frye is another light-skinned black who has the soft tag on him.


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## kRoCwesTT

richard jefferson isn't soft either


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## Da Grinch

to clear something up really quick.


i never said white or light skinned players were soft, by way of their skin color.

what i did say is that the soft tag is put on them easier than if they were a dark skinned person, of course there are tough light skinned black players in the nba, but that doesn't stop people from looking in a way in that alot of times they have to prove they aren't soft.

just because people say it doesn't mean its true.

someone mentioned channing frye , who i think is a perfect example, he isn't soft , he's no bruiser but he had a soft tag put on him back in college to the point people didn't want their team to draft him.

can anyone think of a dark skinned player in the last draft with a soft tag on him?


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## Harry_Minge

charlie villenueva


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## Da Grinch

Harry_Minge said:


> charlie villenueva



what's charlie V other than hairless?


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## RSP83

I don't think this is true. A lot of players are labeled soft because they are. Maybe finese is more appropriate than soft.

Barkley, Maurice Lucas was already known as tough players even before they play in the league. Shane Battier and Darvin Ham was already known as tough players even before they play in the league. There are light skinned black players who are tough players. If people are saying light skinned black players are prone to be labeled as soft... that's because they're just saying things without ever watching the correspoing player play. If people say Charlie Villanueva soft... that's because he's soft. And he's not soft, he's more finese than a power player.


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## ChosenFEW

Charlie Villanueva is SPANISH! not black.....


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## kRoCwesTT

ChosenFEW said:


> Charlie Villanueva is SPANISH! not black.....


haha.


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## ERAFF

I have a theory that this discrimination, if it really exists, is rooted primarily in the African American Community. There has always been some degree of "Skin Envy"---some obvious and unfortunate advantage to being "Light" versus "Dark"...the old and still ugly idea of "Passing" as "White" or being able to exist in both communities probably maintains it's ugly life. Many "Lights" are of mixed race(who isn't?...or won't be!!!!). Perhaps, this ties into some degree of discrimination versus caucasians in basketball----are "lights" seen as "whites"?

Interesting...sad...


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## alphadog

*This whole discussion is an exercise in stupidity..*

For every dark skinned guy that can play there is a light skinned guy that can play. For every tough black man there is a tough tan man. The fact is, H2O was soft as a player type. The fact that he played through pain is irrelevent when talking about playing style. Anyone who shies from mixing it up is labeled soft...color is a non issue there. With regards to Bird and Johnson, both are top 5 players in the history of the NBA. Both had a committment to winning that was unmatched (still would be). Both were similiar in size but it is undeniable that Magic had more physical talent to work with..he was longer, quicker, and faster. It's not much of a leap to suggest Bird had to work harder...nor is it a slam against Magic in any way. If Bird had Tom Chambers' athleticism and physical skills, the argument would be moot. He would have been the bestv player in the game...ever (provided he retained his work ethic). Point is....if the colors were reversed, Bird would still have had to do more to get where he was...even as a black man to Magic's white man.

We would all be wise to compare players on the basis of there games, not their color. Styles vary almost as much as skin tone.

This is a dumb argument based solely on subjective observation by humans and we all have an agenda, don'twe? There is no profit in this.....


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## Da Grinch

*Re: This whole discussion is an exercise in stupidity..*



alphadog said:


> For every dark skinned guy that can play there is a light skinned guy that can play. For every tough black man there is a tough tan man. The fact is, H2O was soft as a player type. The fact that he played through pain is irrelevent when talking about playing style. Anyone who shies from mixing it up is labeled soft...color is a non issue there. With regards to Bird and Johnson, both are top 5 players in the history of the NBA. Both had a committment to winning that was unmatched (still would be). Both were similiar in size but it is undeniable that Magic had more physical talent to work with..he was longer, quicker, and faster. It's not much of a leap to suggest Bird had to work harder...nor is it a slam against Magic in any way. If Bird had Tom Chambers' athleticism and physical skills, the argument would be moot. He would have been the bestv player in the game...ever (provided he retained his work ethic). Point is....if the colors were reversed, Bird would still have had to do more to get where he was...even as a black man to Magic's white man.
> 
> We would all be wise to compare players on the basis of there games, not their color. Styles vary almost as much as skin tone.
> 
> This is a dumb argument based solely on subjective observation by humans and we all have an agenda, don'twe? There is no profit in this.....


the bird-magic thing to me is an argument that has almost no merit.

shooting is a talent and some are just naturally better than others at it.....and bird could always shoot , magic had to work at this skill even as a pro to get to an average level because he didn't enter the nba .

and bird came into the league with at least some athletism , his 1st 3 seasons he was all-nba defense team something magic could never do despite leaving the nba its all time steals leader(the 1st time)

bird was bigger about 2 inches in fact according to pat riley it could have been 3 because he claimed magic was 6'7 while bird's height depending on who was taking it moved from 6'9 to 6'10.

check any old laker highlights and he's shorter than both a.c. green and james worthy both listed at 6'9.

magic was quicker and faster , i am not certain he leaped higher at all ,in fact i think it was the other way around and he was not as strong throughout most of their careers(i've seen bird dunk with 2 hands and i've seen him jump over post players for boards , somethings i've never seen magic do), 

H20 had a soft game type i agree but was he any softer than lets say his perimeter shooting contemporaries who were darker, glen rice ,joe dumars dale ellis or mitch richmond, or current players like joe johnson or michael redd.

yet out of those players none of them were called soft to the degree houston were and some like joe johnson despite huge evidence that he is soft (JJ gets to the line less than jamal crawford.) no one says it.


and once again i am not saying that lighter skinned player are softer , i am saying its seems alot easier for them to have that tag put on them.


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## alphadog

*Bs*

Bird was 6'9...as was Magic. I watched both of them from the time they started college. Just because Magic didn't dunk, didn't mean he couldn't. He was no skywalker for sure but he could jump. Bird was glued to the floor. I am sure that you are smarter than to think stealing the ball makes you a great defender. It means you are great at stealing the ball...period. Being good at D is so much more. You'll need to find some hard facts that Bird was considered athletic in any way. He was always referred to a the guy who overcame all of his physical limitations....something I found to be true while watching him. Yeah, Bird had touch, but so did Magic. He just developed his shooting later in his career. I suspect it was because his game was not predicated on scoring from the perimeter while Bird's was.

Re: Dumar's , Richmond, et al....You must be a young guy . Those guys were all very physical and far from soft.


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## HKF

ChosenFEW said:


> Charlie Villanueva is SPANISH! not black.....


Err? Dominicans are black.


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## The True Essence

i know some dominicans that are really white though, as well as some dark dominicans...so


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## ChosenFEW

HKF said:


> Err? Dominicans are black.




If that was not the most ignorant comment i've heard here then i dont know what is


please if you dont know about other peoples cultures/race/anything about them then do not comment!!!:curse:


latin people are all different colors, they are not labeled to white or black


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## L

cant we all agree on 1 color and be green?or blue like aliens?lol


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## HKF

ChosenFEW said:


> If that was not the most ignorant comment i've heard here then i dont know what is
> 
> 
> please if you dont know about other peoples cultures/race/anything about them then do not comment!!!:curse:
> 
> 
> latin people are all different colors, they are not labeled to white or black


Domincan Republic is right next to Haiti. The odds of seeing a white Dominican are much less than seeing a black one. Do you get it now? I lived in a Dominican neighborhood for 4 years. I should know. 

Of course Latin people come in different colors, but just because a black guy speaks Spanish doesn't mean he isn't black.


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## ChosenFEW

HKF said:


> Domincan Republic is right next to Haiti. The odds of seeing a white Dominican are much less than seeing a black one. Do you get it now? I lived in a Dominican neighborhood for 4 years. I should know.
> 
> Of course Latin people come in different colors, but just because a black guy speaks Spanish doesn't mean he isn't black.



if i was to speak chinese of course that wouldnt make me chinese duh!,....what you fail to understand is that the color of your skin does not determine who you are as a person.....if im black that doesnt mean im african or haitian, jamaican etc., just like if i was white it wouldnt make me italian or austrailian ,... 

hopefully you get the big picture and not label people by their skin color


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## son of oakley

*Re: This whole discussion is an exercise in stupidity..*



Da Grinch said:


> H20 had a soft game type i agree but was he any softer than lets say his perimeter shooting contemporaries who were darker, glen rice ,joe dumars dale ellis or mitch richmond, or current players like joe johnson or michael redd.
> 
> yet out of those players none of them were called soft to the degree houston were and some like joe johnson despite huge evidence that he is soft (JJ gets to the line less than jamal crawford.) no one says it.



This discussion is too broad for me but I would like to speak to the Allan Houston component, and I can be brief about it. 

1) I disagree that some of those guys were considered any tougher than Allan. Rice for instance. It just happens though that at his pinnacle he was better than Allan. See '97 with Charlotte where he scored 26 ppg and shot .477 from 3pt. If I remember correctly he also used to use his derrierre to back guys down, at least earlier in his career. 

Dumars was a solid defender. Solid. Joe Johnson is a decent defender and puts the ball on the floor way more than Allan at a similar age. Remember, when Allan came to the knicks he was very timid to put the ball on the floor, and looked awkward doing it, even though he was generally effective when he did. Richmond did a lot more than just shoot, he was willing to give his strong body up.

Anyway, some of those guys were relatively soft and carried that label, others simply were tougher than Allan in specific ways.

2) This is the bigger effect. This is New York, not only do we celibrate toughness, we expect it, and Allan was joining the Oakley, Ewing, Starks, Mason, Harper, et al legacy. He simply stuck out as a sore thumb.

Allan is no lighter than Starks, but Starky didn't suffer the soft label because he was fearless (certainly in the beginning) and played both ends of the floor. He was considered "tough", and the darker Charles Smith was "soft". Why?

Anyway, some town might celabrate a silky smooth shooter, but this was NY and we were already tiring of Starky getting lazy with the three's, last thing we were looking for was someone more complacent to "pop" than him. We wanted someone who was a better fit for our then rough and tumble franchise.

You see some of the same now. Curry is a dark man, but he's soft cause he doesn't rebound, D or condition. Crawford is dark, but we're sick of his chucking. Lee is white, but thank goodness for his toughness. Ditto Ariza. Frye is light with a soft label. Think if he keeps adding size and plays tough inside he'll keep that label by virtue of his skin color? No. 

This is NY, play NY ball and you'll be fine, even if you're purple, green or blue.


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## NYK101

*Re: This whole discussion is an exercise in stupidity..*

Jason Kidd, so the answer is NO!


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## Da Grinch

*Re: This whole discussion is an exercise in stupidity..*



son of oakley said:


> This discussion is too broad for me but I would like to speak to the Allan Houston component, and I can be brief about it.
> 
> 1) I disagree that some of those guys were considered any tougher than Allan. Rice for instance. It just happens though that at his pinnacle he was better than Allan. See '97 with Charlotte where he scored 26 ppg and shot .477 from 3pt. If I remember correctly he also used to use his derrierre to back guys down, at least earlier in his career.
> 
> Dumars was a solid defender. Solid. Joe Johnson is a decent defender and puts the ball on the floor way more than Allan at a similar age. Remember, when Allan came to the knicks he was very timid to put the ball on the floor, and looked awkward doing it, even though he was generally effective when he did. Richmond did a lot more than just shoot, he was willing to give his strong body up.
> 
> Anyway, some of those guys were relatively soft and carried that label, others simply were tougher than Allan in specific ways.
> 
> 2) This is the bigger effect. This is New York, not only do we celibrate toughness, we expect it, and Allan was joining the Oakley, Ewing, Starks, Mason, Harper, et al legacy. He simply stuck out as a sore thumb.
> 
> Allan is no lighter than Starks, but Starky didn't suffer the soft label because he was fearless (certainly in the beginning) and played both ends of the floor. He was considered "tough", and the darker Charles Smith was "soft". Why?
> 
> Anyway, some town might celabrate a silky smooth shooter, but this was NY and we were already tiring of Starky getting lazy with the three's, last thing we were looking for was someone more complacent to "pop" than him. We wanted someone who was a better fit for our then rough and tumble franchise.
> 
> You see some of the same now. Curry is a dark man, but he's soft cause he doesn't rebound, D or condition. Crawford is dark, but we're sick of his chucking. Lee is white, but thank goodness for his toughness. Ditto Ariza. Frye is light with a soft label. Think if he keeps adding size and plays tough inside he'll keep that label by virtue of his skin color? No.
> 
> This is NY, play NY ball and you'll be fine, even if you're purple, green or blue.


guys like starks i exclude , they are just tough guys , anyone can see it .

i am talking about guys on the fringe that could be considered soft or not , a darker guy seems to be given the benefit of the doubt unless he just leaves little doubt that he does in fact play soft.

a guy like houston who shoots jumpshots well is given that moniker and this is what i mean ....you are defending Joe johnson and glen rice but did you know at the same point in their careers and at the same age , houston got to the line far more than johnson.

in H20's 1st full season as a starter he got to the line 362 times. 580 in his 2 full seasons as starter.

Johnson 232 last season , and 412 in his 1st couple of seasons as a full time starter.

rice in his 1st season playing good starters minutes (34.4) 209 attempts
combined with next season 527 attempts....rice's free throws are almost the same as houston's throughout his career as far as shot attempts in relation to his free throws.

there is no difference really , but houston has had this tag his whole career not just in ny.


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## son of oakley

*Re: This whole discussion is an exercise in stupidity..*



son of oakley said:


> This discussion is too broad for me but I would like to speak to the Allan Houston component, *and I can be brief about it. *
> 
> 1) I disagree that some of those guys were considered any tougher than Allan. Rice for instance. It just happens though that at his pinnacle he was better than Allan. See '97 with Charlotte where he scored 26 ppg and shot .477 from 3pt. If I remember correctly he also used to use his derrierre to back guys down, at least earlier in his career.
> 
> Dumars was a solid defender. Solid. Joe Johnson is a decent defender and puts the ball on the floor way more than Allan at a similar age. Remember, when Allan came to the knicks he was very timid to put the ball on the floor, and looked awkward doing it, even though he was generally effective when he did. Richmond did a lot more than just shoot, he was willing to give his strong body up.
> 
> Anyway, some of those guys were relatively soft and carried that label, others simply were tougher than Allan in specific ways.
> 
> 2) This is the bigger effect. This is New York, not only do we celibrate toughness, we expect it, and Allan was joining the Oakley, Ewing, Starks, Mason, Harper, et al legacy. He simply stuck out as a sore thumb.
> 
> Allan is no lighter than Starks, but Starky didn't suffer the soft label because he was fearless (certainly in the beginning) and played both ends of the floor. He was considered "tough", and the darker Charles Smith was "soft". Why?
> 
> Anyway, some town might celabrate a silky smooth shooter, but this was NY and we were already tiring of Starky getting lazy with the three's, last thing we were looking for was someone more complacent to "pop" than him. We wanted someone who was a better fit for our then rough and tumble franchise.
> 
> You see some of the same now. Curry is a dark man, but he's soft cause he doesn't rebound, D or condition. Crawford is dark, but we're sick of his chucking. Lee is white, but thank goodness for his toughness. Ditto Ariza. Frye is light with a soft label. Think if he keeps adding size and plays tough inside he'll keep that label by virtue of his skin color? No.
> 
> This is NY, play NY ball and you'll be fine, even if you're purple, green or blue.


Ha, just realized I thought I would be brief about it. I'm a joke.



Da Grinch said:


> guys like starks i exclude , they are just tough guys , anyone can see it .
> 
> i am talking about guys on the fringe that could be considered soft or not , a darker guy seems to be given the benefit of the doubt unless he just leaves little doubt that he does in fact play soft.
> 
> a guy like houston who shoots jumpshots well is given that moniker and this is what i mean ....you are defending Joe johnson and glen rice but did you know at the same point in their careers and at the same age , houston got to the line far more than johnson.
> 
> in H20's 1st full season as a starter he got to the line 362 times. 580 in his 2 full seasons as starter.
> 
> Johnson 232 last season , and 412 in his 1st couple of seasons as a full time starter.
> 
> rice in his 1st season playing good starters minutes (34.4) 209 attempts
> combined with next season 527 attempts....rice's free throws are almost the same as houston's throughout his career as far as shot attempts in relation to his free throws.
> 
> there is no difference really , but houston has had this tag his whole career not just in ny.


What I notice in discussions about race is that those of us who aren't race motivated have a hard time believing others are, when they might be. I don't know about others, I can oly speak for myself.

But my overriding point was that there may well be some corners where Houston ISN'T considered soft. Most coaches would have loved to have him. I'm saying that for a guy like him, in a town like this, at those times, is like a setup to be labeled soft. 

I don't care how many free throw stats you present, Dudes like Houston, Rice, Dennis Johnson... I don't know, who's the darkest of them? Take him, tattoo every inch of his body, put him out there with a stocking over his head, untied sneakers, ankle shackles and and a prison uniform... in this town if he's a finesse player with little regard for D, he WILL be called soft.


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## j0se

You guys are the most race obsessed losers I ever seen.


Get a life.

Domincans are Dominicans, complextion shouldnt seperate nobody, if you do that, you're racist, if you believe inr ace, that people are based on their complextion, instead of being a human being and a American, like YOU, then you're racist.


In this society today, its probably the most racist, so much race obsession, every topic turns into race.

Very pathetic


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## j0se

HKF said:


> Err? Dominicans are black.


Dominicans have no "average" [strike]What the **** is your monkey *** talking about?[/strike]

DR is a very open country, theres no "race" in DR.

The only race in this world is the human race.

You Americans are too obsessed with race to be open minded, and stop the racism you preach more than a Bible.

Jose, please no more name calling. 

Kitty


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## ChosenFEW

school them jose


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## knicksfan

ChosenFEW said:


> if i was to speak chinese of course that wouldnt make me chinese duh!,....what you fail to understand is that the color of your skin does not determine who you are as a person.....if im black that doesnt mean im african or haitian, jamaican etc., just like if i was white it wouldnt make me italian or austrailian ,...
> 
> hopefully you get the big picture and not label people by their skin color


Technically if you are black then im pretty sure you have SOME african in you from ancestry. Probably just being technical but it is true


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## ChosenFEW

knicksfan said:


> Technically if you are black then im pretty sure you have SOME african in you from ancestry. Probably just being technical but it is true



yea, if you want to get technical with it.....

but if you want to get even more technical with it......we all spawned from the same thing, out of all the humans in the world there had to be a first two that created all of us......but thats just being real technical with it.....


edit:....besides if you were to call a jamaican an african, a haitian a guyanese, a dominican a puertorican,...they'd all be mad as hell


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## Premier

I never considered Tyson Chandler as "soft" and one would say that he is a "light-skinned black."


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## L

didnt we all descend from africa anyway?lol, im not kidding.according to some theories, the first humans were livin in africa.then as climate started to change, humans moved in different directions.
the only reason ur skin color can be black is b/c of ur heritage.ur ancestors probably stayed in the sunlight a lot and their body adapted by changin skin color so skin cancer and sunburns wouldnt pop up.
the only reason ur skin color can be white b/c ur ancestors stayed in the colder regions of the plAnet(europe,china etc....).the body had to adapt to the less sunlight and so the skin became white.


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## kRoCwesTT

what about blacks being discriminated as a whole in the nba? especially with this dress code thing now... Stephen Jackson calls it racist.

I personally agree with only one point in the dress code. You get paid well, so dress well, if you're a professional, dress professional - so i'm for them dressing appropriately to the game and out of the game. but they should have days where they can just wear whatever they want.

but things like this get me a aggravated...

*Players at attendance at games but not in uniform: have to wear a sport coat and dress shoes, no sneakers * this even applies to them when they are watching another teams game from the stands...

and if you go look at the excluded items section, the most part that strikes me is "NO CHAINS,PENDANTS, OR MEDALLIONS WORN OVER THE PLAYER'S CLOTHES" and not only that, they can't even wear throwbacks.

now david stern is basically singling out one specific type of player. thats a problem.
they should be able to wear a jesus piece whenever they want, whether its big or small, and whether its over or inside the guys shirt. he's not being fair to a players religion OR culture...

i heard over caller over sports radio last nite that the way black players dress portray "gangstas" and "thugs". thats the most ridiculous thing i ever heard, because all my friends that dress similar to the way some players walk into the arena before the dress code are some of the nicest people i know. i have a feeling that dave stern feels the same way as the caller, he's just trying to do it without offending anybody, which has failed... 

again, its another stereotypic label. its ridiculous and unfortunate.


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## Fordy74

David Lee is black as hell.. :uhoh:


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## knicksfan

ChosenFEW said:


> yea, if you want to get technical with it.....
> 
> but if you want to get even more technical with it......we all spawned from the same thing, out of all the humans in the world there had to be a first two that created all of us......but thats just being real technical with it.....
> 
> 
> edit:....besides if you were to call a jamaican an african, a haitian a guyanese, a dominican a puertorican,...they'd all be mad as hell


I never called a dominican a puerto rican. I just simply stated that all BLACK PEOPLE have at least SOME african blood


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## ERAFF

PLEASE STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a painful revelation of ignorance and Bias.


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## knicksfan

I most definetly agree with that eraff and I am not defending it. That is why I am making the arguments I am.


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## ChosenFEW

knicksfan said:


> I never called a dominican a puerto rican. I just simply stated that all BLACK PEOPLE have at least SOME african blood



i know you didnt i was just using examples of how even though we all have some african blood doesnt mean we are african......puertoricans are a mix of spaniards, indians from puerto rico (tainos), and africans......dominicans are similar but they are more mixed with haitians then anything else.. and haitians are somewhat mixed with african slaves that were brought there......so even though we have african blood in most races doesnt make us african.......GET MY POINT


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## ChosenFEW

ERAFF said:


> PLEASE STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> This is a painful revelation of ignorance and Bias.





I DONT THINK ANY OF MY COMMENTS ARE IGNORANT...


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## ChosenFEW

THINK OF A DOG.........A DOBERMAN PINSCHER IS A MIX OF A GERMAN PINSCHER, GERMAN SHEPARD, AND A Weimaraner......DOES THAT MAKE A DOBERMAN PINSCHER A GERMAN SHEPARD?, DOES IT MAKE HIM A GERMAN PINSCHER?, NO!!!!......THE DOBERMAN IS ITS OWN DISTINCT LIVING THING.....A DOBERMAN PINSCHER IS A DOBERMAN, IT ISNT A GERMAN SHEPARD BECAUSE ITS WAS MADE FROM THEIR DNA OR PINSCHERS ETC.....SAME GOES WITH CULTURES AND RACES TODAY, BECAUSE WE HAVE AFRICANS BLOOD IN OUR ANCESTRY OR OTHER, OR BECAUSE WE HAVE DARKER SKIN WE ARE LIKE OTHER BLAH BLAH.....NO WE ARE ALL DISTINCT AND DIFFERENT.....THATS WHAT MAKES THE WORLD SPECIAL THE FACT THAT WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.....IF WE WERE ALL THE SAME IT WOULD BE BORING



!!!!!


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## knicksfan

ChosenFEW said:


> THINK OF A DOG.........A DOBERMAN PINSCHER IS A MIX OF A GERMAN PINSCHER, GERMAN SHEPARD, AND A Weimaraner......DOES THAT MAKE A DOBERMAN PINSCHER A GERMAN SHEPARD?, DOES IT MAKE HIM A GERMAN PINSCHER?, NO!!!!......THE DOBERMAN IS ITS OWN DISTINCT LIVING THING.....A DOBERMAN PINSCHER IS A DOBERMAN, IT ISNT A GERMAN SHEPARD BECAUSE ITS WAS MADE FROM THEIR DNA OR PINSCHERS ETC.....SAME GOES WITH CULTURES AND RACES TODAY, BECAUSE WE HAVE AFRICANS BLOOD IN OUR ANCESTRY OR OTHER, OR BECAUSE WE HAVE DARKER SKIN WE ARE LIKE OTHER BLAH BLAH.....NO WE ARE ALL DISTINCT AND DIFFERENT.....THATS WHAT MAKES THE WORLD SPECIAL THE FACT THAT WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.....IF WE WERE ALL THE SAME IT WOULD BE BORING
> 
> 
> 
> !!!!!


Ignorance is bliss my friend. So because we are different then light skinned black players are not as good as dark skinned ones or vice versa? You are failing to make a legitimate argument here.


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## ChosenFEW

knicksfan said:


> Ignorance is bliss my friend. So because we are different then light skinned black players are not as good as dark skinned ones or vice versa? You are failing to make a legitimate argument here.



what are you talking about????


dont put words in my mouth that i never said......did you even read any of my posts?

looks like your ignorance is holding you back from opening up and listening to other peoples point of views,....at least i respondED to your comments w/o making judgements on you


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## ChosenFEW

inuyasha232 said:


> didnt we all descend from africa anyway?lol, im not kidding.according to some theories, *the first humans were livin in africa.then as climate started to change, humans moved in different directions.
> the only reason ur skin color can be black is b/c of ur heritage.ur ancestors probably stayed in the sunlight a lot and their body adapted by changin skin color so skin cancer and sunburns wouldnt pop up.
> the only reason ur skin color can be white b/c ur ancestors stayed in the colder regions of the plAnet(europe,china etc....).the body had to adapt to the less sunlight and so the skin became white.*



i was going to write something similar to that as well...............next time write it as a new post instead of editing one of your old post!!

:cheers:


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## L

ChosenFEW said:


> i was going to write something similar to that as well...............next time write it as a new post instead of editing one of your old post!!
> 
> :cheers:


oops.....lol


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## j0se

ChosenFEW said:


> i know you didnt i was just using examples of how even though we all have some african blood doesnt mean we are african......puertoricans are a mix of spaniards, indians from puerto rico (tainos), and africans......dominicans are similar but they are more mixed with haitians then anything else.. and haitians are somewhat mixed with african slaves that were brought there......so even though we have african blood in most races doesnt make us african.......GET MY POINT



Theres no such thing as "African" blood, everyone is human.


Puerto Ricans don't look like anything, they have no average, thats like saying You look "American" or "Canadian"


to relying to race as the answer to everything.


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## ChosenFEW

j0se said:


> Theres no such thing as "African" blood, everyone is human.
> 
> 
> Puerto Ricans don't look like anything, they have no average, thats like saying You look "American" or "Canadian"
> 
> 
> to relying to race as the answer to everything.



thats what i've been saying.....read my other posts


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## ERAFF

inuyasha232 said:


> didnt we all descend from africa anyway?lol, im not kidding.according to some theories, the first humans were livin in africa.then as climate started to change, humans moved in different directions.
> the only reason ur skin color can be black is b/c of ur heritage.ur ancestors probably stayed in the sunlight a lot and their body adapted by changin skin color so skin cancer and sunburns wouldnt pop up.
> the only reason ur skin color can be white b/c ur ancestors stayed in the colder regions of the plAnet(europe,china etc....).the body had to adapt to the less sunlight and so the skin became white.


Where do freckles fit into all of this?...and the Darker shinned people with Freckles---what the heck is that all about?


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## ERAFF

inuyasha232 said:


> didnt we all descend from africa anyway?lol, im not kidding.according to some theories, the first humans were livin in africa.then as climate started to change, humans moved in different directions.
> the only reason ur skin color can be black is b/c of ur heritage.ur ancestors probably stayed in the sunlight a lot and their body adapted by changin skin color so skin cancer and sunburns wouldnt pop up.
> the only reason ur skin color can be white b/c ur ancestors stayed in the colder regions of the plAnet(europe,china etc....).the body had to adapt to the less sunlight and so the skin became white.


How do Freckles fit in to all of this?...and the Dark Skinned people with Freckles---what's THAT all about?


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## aNgelo5

I think it has nothing to do with it.


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## ERAFF

"...what about blacks being discriminated as a whole in the nba? especially with this dress code thing now... Stephen Jackson calls it racist."

Oh yeah!?..what about the &^%$ that's going down on the Pro Bowling Tour!!! 

For God's sake--- Stephen Jackson is a MORON!!!

This is a Marketing thing by the league---which seems wrong, to me. It's un-necessary and mis-placed and OFF TARGET! They're selling tons of Athletic Garb as fashion....so, I think it's gonna cost them money!....this isn't the first group of EMPLOYEES who've had a dress code....and it's not the first group of athletes who've had one---it may be the first League Wide Dress code. The point is that it's not racist. The outlook and the jusdgement that produced it are quite inaccurate and narrow(IMHO), but this is just a business asking it's people to dress in a way that helps the business make more money(even though I think they're wrong).


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## ERAFF

"Puerto Ricans don't look like anything, they have no average, thats like saying You look "American" or "Canadian" "

The Puerto Ricans really do blend in! It's really hard to tell. Sometimes, you just need to see them get into their car before you can tell.

Canadians and Americans are USUALLY best differentiated by their beach attire and their physical modesty. Generally, your American Male is wearing a "Boxer" shape suit. His Canadian Friend is probably wearing a "Speedo" profile suit. If he's from Newfoundland, he's wearing the only pair of whity-tighties he owns as a suit. It's tougher to tell with the women.


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## L

ERAFF said:


> How do Freckles fit in to all of this?...and the Dark Skinned people with Freckles---what's THAT all about?


wth r u talkin about?


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## ERAFF

inuyasha232 said:


> wth r u talkin about?


For Instance...Dennis Johnson---GREAT PLAYER!!!! Tough Player!!!..Fairly Light Skinned....for a "Person of Color". He also had some Freckles!!! Maybe the Darkness of the Freckles made up for his comparitive LIghtness---That is, light for a Dark man(as opposed to a Norweigian!,,,after all!!!). Did the Freckles, which were comparitively Darker(how the heck else would you even know they were there?) make him tougher or reduce the discrimination against his "lightness". 

Maybe we should list every NBA Player by complexion---and adjust for any Freckles or Splotches of any kind. Then we could grade them. If we get anyone with one of those red splotches(like Jack marin Had---and he was really tough!!!---probably, you have to be pretty tough when you have something like that!) we'll just put them in their own special category. 

I've never thought about this before! Amazingly enlightening!!!


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## ChosenFEW

ERAFF said:


> "Puerto Ricans don't look like anything, they have no average, thats like saying You look "American" or "Canadian" "
> 
> The Puerto Ricans really do blend in! It's really hard to tell. Sometimes, you just need to see them get into their car before you can tell.



you wish puertoricans blended in......J.lo, ricky martin, fat joe.....i dont think so..., whites can only wish they had that flavor to them but they're dull especially the older ones...whites are more desendants of puritans and boring religious people that didnt do anything but pray and work on the farm


and they have absolutely NO BUTT:biggrin:


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## ChosenFEW

every culture has its good and its bad, its rich and its poor, its beautiful and its ugly......





so lets give this thread a proper burial and send it to the lost pages of the forum.....since it has nothing to do with basketball or the knicks........

where are the mods.....i would've been locked this thread weeks ago:angel:


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## USSKittyHawk

We been way off topic, and it's getting out of hand. Locked!


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