# Official Paul Allen is a worthless piece of crap thread



## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Don't merge this please, as it addresses a very specific issue.

Larry Weinberg and Stu Inman worked long and laboriously for over 2 decades to provide our city with a wonderful gift of a financially successful, competitively dominating and exciting team fans were rabid about and fans in other cities envied.

In less than half that timespan, Allen has destroyed the team talent-wise, image-wise, and left us a worthless, talentless team nobody cares about and certainly nobody will be interested in buying from him. He threw his loyal employees (mostly Portland citizens with no financial safety net) out on the street and reneged on his word to his lenders by using bankruptcy to avoid paying for his incredibly poor business sense.

Now he wants us, the fans, to pay doubly through taxation in addition to tickets, to subsidize his 767, his many ships, and his annual $20,000,000 parties with David Geffen, Paul McCartney, and other celebrities.

Faced with an either/or choice, I can think of no supposed "JailBlazer" who I would not pick over Allen for a role model for children.

Better not attend any more games Paul.

You've worn out your welcome.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

not to be picky..but Larry only owned the team 18 years (the same amount of time Paul has).


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

The fan base has shifted dramatically. I blame the California exodus who all moved here and destroyed the community feel. Its not the ownership.....sheesh.....the whiny, abondon ship "fans" that have invaded Portland absolutely disgust me. Not Paul Allen. Not the current Blazers team. They love to claim that they are fans, but are overly critical, without good reason, for the maladies. They live on criticizing and bashing the team...throw mud at them...never watch their games, and what not.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Want some levity? 

Here Ya Go



> The Allen Institute of Brain Science in Seattle, set up by Microsoft's other founder, Paul Allen, is set to finish the $100-million Allen Brain Atlas this year. The institute will be hiring systems neuroscientists and data managers for the next phase of work — mining the atlas data on brain circuitry and gene expression and an in-depth study of the cortex....


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Xericx said:


> The fan base has shifted dramatically. I blame the California exodus who all moved here and destroyed the community feel. Its not the ownership.....sheesh.....the whiny, abondon ship "fans" that have invaded Portland absolutely disgust me. Not Paul Allen. Not the current Blazers team. They love to claim that they are fans, but are overly critical, without good reason, for the maladies. They live on criticizing and bashing the team...throw mud at them...never watch their games, and what not.



Yeah, that must be it. Let's blame the fans. Because we have so much say in the day-to-day operations, trades, etc.

I'll give you one point - the fans at the Rose Garden ain't what they used to be at Memorial. But I think a lot of that has to do with high ticket prices (I mean besides the super specials).


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

yakbladder said:


> Yeah, that must be it. Let's blame the fans. Because we have so much say in the day-to-day operations, trades, etc.
> 
> I'll give you one point - the fans at the Rose Garden ain't what they used to be at Memorial. But I think a lot of that has to do with high ticket prices (I mean besides the super specials).


ARe the tickets really THAT expensive? They ALWAYS run deals....I don't live in Portland, but when I do go, I go to the games...they run good specials....cheap. WAY cheaper than going to the Staples Center.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

What does "competitively dominating" mean? And how does it relate to the Weinberg Blazers?

Clearly the Blazers won their titile before Paul. I'd be interested to see the team's record under each owner.

Ed O.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Xericx said:


> ARe the tickets really THAT expensive? They ALWAYS run deals....I don't live in Portland, but when I do go, I go to the games...they run good specials....cheap. WAY cheaper than going to the Staples Center.


For tickets in the 200 level, it's $49, plus service charges. For a family of four, that's $200, plus food, parking, memorabilia, whatever.

I don't know how many people I speak for, but high ticket prices prevent me from attending more games than I do now, mainly because the 300 level seats just aren't that good. Anything lower is going to run me $50, minimum.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

wastro said:


> For tickets in the 200 level, it's $49, plus service charges. For a family of four, that's $200, plus food, parking, memorabilia, whatever.
> 
> I don't know how many people I speak for, but high ticket prices prevent me from attending more games than I do now, mainly because the 300 level seats just aren't that good. Anything lower is going to run me $50, minimum.


Isn't that about the same as other places...give or take 5-10 bucks?


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Xericx said:


> ARe the tickets really THAT expensive? They ALWAYS run deals....I don't live in Portland, but when I do go, I go to the games...they run good specials....cheap. WAY cheaper than going to the Staples Center.


It depends on where you sit, and which games you go to.

If you want to see Atlanta in the nosebleeds, it'll probably cost you $15. Not bad.

If you want to see a decent team and sit in the mid-level, you're up a ways.

And heaven forbid you want to bring the whole family and they'd better dam* well not eat anything at the game or want a program!

I think part of the problem is just that PDX is so small market... the demand really has to be there for the product to fill the seats. The Clippers could do jack-squat but someone out in LA is going "Hey, we could just go hang out at the Clippers game"...and enough of those fill the seats.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> What does "competitively dominating" mean? And how does it relate to the Weinberg Blazers?
> 
> Clearly the Blazers won their titile before Paul. I'd be interested to see the team's record under each owner.
> 
> Ed O.


easy to figure out (I think Paul owned them from 88-89 on, right?)

PP
725-751 (including the first 6 years of the teams existence where they were never above 40 wins)

WP (with paul)
810-552 (not inluding this year, if my math was right)

btw, average wins with paul? 49

Records in 77, 87, 97, 02 (and hopefully 07)? 49-33


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Xericx said:


> The fan base has shifted dramatically. I blame the California exodus who all moved here and destroyed the community feel. Its not the ownership.....sheesh.....the whiny, abondon ship "fans" that have invaded Portland absolutely disgust me. Not Paul Allen. Not the current Blazers team. They love to claim that they are fans, but are overly critical, without good reason, for the maladies. They live on criticizing and bashing the team...throw mud at them...never watch their games, and what not.


I used to think that also, but being a Native Oregonian, and knowing literally hundreds of Native Oregonians who are former Blazers fans, I have come to realize that's simply not the case.

More than being disappointed with a less than competitive team (something they had weathered before without walking away), they are largely disappointed with an absentee owner who craps on the fans, the citizens of Portland, and those who at one time felt lucky and proud to say they worked for him. And takes no responsibility for his actions.

Apparently if we were to be invited to tour Paul's mansion in Washington, to ride on his jets, or to sail on his ships, we would be struck by the total absence of mirrors.

He is a shallow man with no conscience and no redeeming values as a human being.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Xericx said:


> Isn't that about the same as other places...give or take 5-10 bucks?



How much is it at the Staples Center?


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Xericx said:


> The fan base has shifted dramatically. I blame the California exodus who all moved here and destroyed the community feel. Its not the ownership.....sheesh.....the whiny, abondon ship "fans" that have invaded Portland absolutely disgust me. Not Paul Allen. Not the current Blazers team. They love to claim that they are fans, but are overly critical, without good reason, for the maladies. They live on criticizing and bashing the team...throw mud at them...never watch their games, and what not.



It's easy to be critical when the team has been in the lottery for three years; others cities do the same thing. The fan base hasn't changed, the win/loss record, image of the team, and salaries of the players (league wide), have changed. It's just common sense that the fans are going to be more critical during years like this than they were during the twenty or so straight years where the Blazers made the post season. And lets add a half decade of the 'Jailblazers image' that accompanied our downward spiral. I hardly consider myself a bandwagon fan, but lately I can't even stomache an entire game on TV, so why would I pay money to go watch it live??? The product isn't good enough. The fan base is still there, wanting to care again, but so far the organization has made that impossible.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I don't agree. I think Paul Allen tried to buy a winning team, which he did for a while, but IMO, it was actually the media that drove this team into the dirt. 

Right now, Paul is facing the financial realities and addressing them as anybody in his position would when starting to face dwindling money amounts. For a change, he has finally started to do something to take hold of his financial empire and right the ship. You can't blame somebody for that.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

The fans will come back as soon as Portland starts winning. Whether it's with a marquee player or the current crop, fans will turn out for a team that wins 49-60 or more games. Simple as that.

When most fans were like, "I'll come back when they get rid of the JailBlazers," what they meant was "I'll come back when they start winning."


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## Swerv (Jan 2, 2003)

Are you serious Maris? That is one of the stupdist posts I have ever seen.
At least Paul cares about his team
He doesnt move the team from city to city (and he is not threating to)
Has he done the greatest job? No.
Has he realized that the team needed to change its direction? Yes.
Does the losing suck? oh hell yes.
Is this rebuilding process going to take a while and suck while it does? Yes.
Do we have one of the nicest buildings in the NBA to play in? Yes.

Is Paul Allen a bad owner? HELL NO!

I tell you what...you go ahead and let Bonzi, Kemp, Qyntell and Rider be your kids idols and I will let my kids idol be Paul Allen....and when your kids are in jail and mine are CEO of some company...I think you might regret what you said.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

My point is Weinberg BUILT a successful team and fan base from nothing.

Allen DISMANTLED it and returned it to ashes.

And he's the one who wants to be compensated for his dismal failure?

As far as records, if you are going to count the 6 years it took to build from nothing, let's also count this year and the next 5 coming up in the equation.

Then look at it on a graphic chart.

It will resemble a silhouette of Mt Hood.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

MARIS61 said:


> Apparently if we were to be invited to tour Paul's mansion in Washington, to ride on his jets, or to sail on his ships, we would be struck by the total absence of mirrors.
> 
> He is a shallow man with no conscience and no redeeming values as a human being.


I'm confused. Wouldn't he be considered "Shallow" if he HAD a bunch of mirrors??? I'm not saying he's not shallow, I just don't understand referencing the lack of mirrors as a cause for.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> I used to think that also, but being a Native Oregonian, and knowing literally hundreds of Native Oregonians who are former Blazers fans, I have come to realize that's simply not the case.
> 
> More than being disappointed with a less than competitive team (something they had weathered before without walking away), they are largely disappointed with an absentee owner who craps on the fans, the citizens of Portland, and those who at one time felt lucky and proud to say they worked for him. And takes no responsibility for his actions.
> 
> .


Weathered losing teams before? When???? 30 years ago???? I'd guess that the largest portion of the fan base hasn't had to weather much losing. The team was in the playoffs almost 25 years in a row. Sure there are plenty of fans older than that, but really, how much weathering have they had to do? Especially compared to other franchises. This fan base is spoiled.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> My point is Weinberg BUILT a successful team and fan base from nothing.
> 
> Allen DISMANTLED it and returned it to ashes.


well, larry et al, also made some dumb choices along the way. Not drafting McAdoo, not keeping Moses, not drafting Jordan, etc.



> As far as records, if you are going to count the 6 years it took to build from nothing, let's also count this year and the next 5 coming up in the equation.


my point about mentioning them was not to discount them, but to say that even WITH them, the record under Weinberg was still impressive.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> My point is Weinberg BUILT a successful team and fan base from nothing.
> 
> Allen DISMANTLED it and returned it to ashes.
> 
> ...




All sports teams go through periods like this, I'd hardly characterize it as 'returning to ashes' for christs sake. Take a chill pill. Not many organizations go through a stretch of twenty post season appearances, which was basically all under Paul Allen's ownership. And our consistency over those years was a direct result of an owner that does care. Last I checked, Allen wasn't on the floor during that western-conference 4th-quarter collapse, but he was responsible for putting together a team that should have won a title (while he took a large financial hit). If he moves the team, or sells the team to someone who moves the team, then I'll publicly declare him to be the anti-christ. But until that day, he's one of the best owners in the league, IMO.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

yakbladder said:


> How much is it at the Staples Center?


I dunno....I don't watch many games. My last tickets were under the basket and were $200. I got them for free though.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

MARIS61 said:


> Paul Allen is a worthless piece of crap thread


Maybe not the best owner in the histery of the nba, but "worthless piece of crap?" He's more than just the owner of the Blazers.

Paul Allen built a spaceship.

Paul Allen invented computers.

Paul Allen pwns Jimi Hendrix.

Paul Allen is friends with Monica Seles.


If he ends up completely screwing the Blazers beyond saving, then he still knows Monica Seles.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Swerv said:


> Are you serious Maris? That is one of the stupdist posts I have ever seen.
> At least Paul cares about his team
> He doesnt move the team from city to city (and he is not threating to)
> Has he done the greatest job? No.
> ...


You're a bit confused.

Paul can't move the team, due to legal contracts he has signed. He'd prefer them to be in Seattle, a city he actually likes.

He's already shown his word means nothing, but it's the law so he's stuck.

I believe he will use the same out he used with the Garden. He is deliberately driving the team into bankruptcy and will bail. He's halfway there already. Then he will buy the Sonics, something that is already in the works as I see it.

Why do you think he signed Darius and Theo and Zach to such hideously exorbitant and unexplainable contracts?

Why do you think he rebuffed NY's offers to take on those ridiculous contracts? It would have set his plan back years.

Bonzi, Kemp, Qyntell and Rider...?
Paul hired them all and sang their praises.

BTW, my kids are grown and doing fine. They are solid, caring, contributing citizens whom I am thoroughly proud of, as they were not brought up to idolize either sports stars OR millionaires who avoid personal accountability for their actions.

Hope yours do as well, although "CEO of some company" seems an awful shallow goal to set for your children.

I hope I'm mis-reading what's important and what's not in your family.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

kaydow said:


> I'm confused. Wouldn't he be considered "Shallow" if he HAD a bunch of mirrors??? I'm not saying he's not shallow, I just don't understand referencing the lack of mirrors as a cause for.


My father told me once to look in the mirror each morning when I awoke and each evening before I went to bed.

If I wasn't proud of the person I saw there I'd better fix it damn quick.

I don't think Paul has ever looked in a mirror.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> You're a bit confused.
> 
> Paul can't move the team, due to legal contracts he has signed. He'd prefer them to be in Seattle, a city he actually likes.
> 
> ...


Cute conspiracy theory..thanks for the chuckles.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> My father told me once to look in the mirror each morning when I awoke and each evening before I went to bed.
> 
> If I wasn't proud of the person I saw there I'd better fix it damn quick.
> 
> I don't think Paul has ever looked in a mirror.


OH! I thought you were calling him a vampire... perhaps one that sucks the lifesblood of poor unsuspecting Blazers fans and denizens of Portland generally.

Ed O.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Backboard Cam said:


> Maybe not the best owner in the histery of the nba, but "worthless piece of crap?" He's more than just the owner of the Blazers.
> 
> Paul Allen built a spaceship.
> 
> ...


Paul *bought* a spaceship.

Paul *stole* a computer programming language from his employer.

Jimi *loathed* being comercialized and, if still alive would not give Paul the time of day .

Paul has no real friends. Just rentals.


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## For Three! Rip City! (Nov 11, 2003)

MARIS61 said:


> Don't merge this please, as it addresses a very specific issue.
> 
> Larry Weinberg and Stu Inman worked long and laboriously for over 2 decades to provide our city with a wonderful gift of a financially successful, competitively dominating and exciting team fans were rabid about and fans in other cities envied.
> 
> ...


I don't know what else to say. I couldn't agree more. Anytime anyone complains to me about a contract they signed the first thing I think is "well why did you sign the contract". I'm having a hard time feeling poorly for a billionaire stupid enough to sign the lease agreement that he did. He's also been the driving force for bringing in the JR Riders and Qyntell Woods of the world. Given the billions this guy has lost in the last decade or so I think it's safe to say that he's not the brightest tool in the shed. A regular one hit wonder. I don't care who buys the team as long as they are based out of Oregon. As for those folks worried about Portland losing a franchise, I would say there is such a history of basketball support here that the NBA would make us expansion location number 1 if it ever happened.

Other than that I think the guy is swell!


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Ed O said:


> OH! I thought you were calling him a vampire... perhaps one that sucks the lifesblood of poor unsuspecting Blazers fans and denizens of Portland generally.
> 
> Ed O.


That would explain why a billionaire has such horrible teeth I guess. :biggrin:


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> Paul *bought* a spaceship.
> 
> Paul *stole* a computer programming language from his employer.
> 
> ...


Yet, here you are. I'd suggest you take a look in the mirror. (j/k  )


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

They complain that they do not get revenue from Luxery seats, parking etc...well, WHY THE HELL DID YOU FILE FOR BANKRUPCY INSTEAD OF PAYING YOUR DEBTS YOU MULTI-FREAKING BILLIONARE. Allen is pissing me off.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Yes folks, it is true - Paul Allen bought the team and is running it just to make you miserable!  :boohoo: :whatever:


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Paul Allen did nothing more then make the mistake of hiring foolish stupid people to manage this franchise. Bob Whittsitt and Jay Isaac being at the very top of the list followed closely by his managemant crew at Vulcan. Paul made some of these decisions surely but it was at the recomendation of the incompetents that he hired. 

He made the mistake of making some bad hires, all this other conjecture is garbage, and this conspiracy theory is downright laughable.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Yes folks, it is true - Paul Allen bought the team and is running it just to make you miserable!  :boohoo: :whatever:


agreed... though I'd throw in a :laugh: because this thread has given me a few. 

STOMP


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## adotjames (Jun 21, 2005)

Wow, you guys are some really loyal diehard fans. I mean you only had *21* consecutive seasons of playoff years. and now your having to endure this dark dark period of sub .500 basketball which will probably last 4 to 5 years.

Wake up people, this is how professional sports works. All franchises go through periods like this. I think we here in Portland have gotten a little spoiled by the consistently great Blazer teams from the 80s and 90s.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

MARIS61 said:


> Now he wants us, the fans, to pay doubly through taxation in addition to tickets, to subsidize his 767, his many ships, and his annual $20,000,000 parties with David Geffen, Paul McCartney, and other celebrities.


No, he wants us, the fans, to pay to subsidize the Blazers. Because he's tired of subsidizing them. 

barfo


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## GrandpaBlaze (Jul 11, 2004)

barfo said:


> No, he wants us, the fans, to pay to subsidize the Blazers. Because he's tired of subsidizing them.


It is one thing to subsidize something about which you have a say. It is another to subsidize something where someone else makes all the decisions and if the team becomes profitable again, they walk away with the profits and you are then subsidizing their profits as well.

If the subsidization happens, it should cut both ways, if the team makes money, a percentage of those profits go back to the city/state as a payoff in their investment in the Blazers.

Gramps...


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

GrandpaBlaze said:


> It is one thing to subsidize something about which you have a say. It is another to subsidize something where someone else makes all the decisions and if the team becomes profitable again, they walk away with the profits and you are then subsidizing their profits as well.
> 
> *If the subsidization happens, it should cut both ways, if the team makes money, a percentage of those profits go back to the city/state as a payoff in their investment in the Blazers.
> 
> Gramps...*




It does a little since I believe the city receives a majority of the parking revenues.


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## GrandpaBlaze (Jul 11, 2004)

If the city is already receiving the majority of the parking revenue, then subsidization and subsequent team profitability should provide the city with more. If I invest in a company to help it turn around, I want some return on my investment should the company turn and become profitable. Why should investment (subsidization) by the government/citizens of Oregon be any different?

Gramps...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I'm no expert on subsidies, but they're NOT investments in the normal sense. Do farmers pay back the government for subsidies? I can't imagine that's the case.

The idea is that the Blazers--and a Blazers organization operating at the top level, which means spending a lot of $$--brings value to the city and region. Value in the form of economic, cultural, or psychic streams. 

I don't live in Portland, but I live in Seattle and we've been discussing some of the same issues with the Sonics. Schultz just isn't as fabulously rich as Allen, so there's one fewer stone to hurl against him, but the basic issues are the same.

Personally, I am willing to subsidize my team to help them be successful. I am also willing to subsidize the city's symphony and opera, even if I rarely see them and even though I know the people who go to those events are often more wealthy than I am. I don't expect the city to be compensated for when good times hit... it's just the cost, IMO, of being a big-league town nowadays.

Ed O.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

barfo said:


> No, he wants us, the fans, to pay to subsidize the Blazers. Because he's tired of subsidizing them.
> 
> barfo


We already do, through ticket sales and through $8 beers and $5 hot dogs and $20 parking and through Blazer$ merchandise.

When he gives us back the winning team we had when he came here, we'll buy more of all that.

For now, he should move the team back into the Glass Palace and sell $1 dogs and $2 beers.

Because that's what his product is worth.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> We already do, through ticket sales and through $8 beers and $5 hot dogs and $20 parking and through Blazer$ merchandise.
> 
> When he gives us back the winning team we had when he came here, we'll buy more of all that.
> 
> ...


$8 Beers = Global Spectrum

$5 Hot Dogs = Global Spectrum

$20 Parking = City Center Parking / City of Portland

Tickets = 1/2 Global Spectrum (suites, Preffered, courtside)

Merhandise = Blazers but is by far the smallest revenue stream of all of them.

So we really are not subsidizing as much as you think.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Wow. 

Really? 

Just....wow. Some of the stuff I've read in this thread.....

And I thought Mixum was bad.


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## ptownblazer1 (Oct 12, 2005)

adotjames said:


> Wow, you guys are some really loyal diehard fans. I mean you only had *21* consecutive seasons of playoff years. and now your having to endure this dark dark period of sub .500 basketball which will probably last 4 to 5 years.
> 
> Wake up people, this is how professional sports works. All franchises go through periods like this. I think we here in Portland have gotten a little spoiled by the consistently great Blazer teams from the 80s and 90s.


True, I love that someone brought this up. Every franchise does go through their up and down seasons, but how often is it that the owner is all about cutting the team down and then on top of the that...THE FANS! We have been spoiled by the teams streak of 21 years of playoff basketball. But are we supposed to buy into something when we think the owner is going to go up and leave...I think as a City of Portland, we should take over the team...we will be the Green Bay of the NBA. (Never gonna happen, I know) But I think with the backing of businesses in the area, it could happen. 

I also don't think that David Stern will let this team leave Portland. POP QUIZ...In which city has the NBA Draft been held other than New York City?! Only time ever held outside of New York by the way, (I believe) in Portland, Oregon. We are a basketball city and always will be! I think that instead of buying hard to bring baseball to Portland...we should work hard on bringing Blazer Basketball back to Portland!!!!!!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ptownblazer1 said:


> POP QUIZ...In which city has the NBA Draft been held other than New York City?! Only time ever held outside of New York by the way, (I believe) in Portland, Oregon. We are a basketball city and always will be! I think that instead of buying hard to bring baseball to Portland...we should work hard on bringing Blazer Basketball back to Portland!!!!!!


I believe other cities held the draft, over like a 4-6 year stretch, until the NBA went back to NY.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

.. he is just doing what the fans wanted. good character, never mind the winning.

as you sow so shall you reap. fools.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

el_Diablo said:


> .. he is just doing what the fans wanted. good character, never mind the winning.
> 
> as you sow so shall you reap. fools.


we're also reaping what paul allen and bob whitsitt sowed.

to put the blame on us, is rather comical. we're not the ones who didn't just pony up the money to buy the RG (which in the long run, not buying the RG will end up costing him more than him simply buying it). We're not the ones who gave up on ASCN. We're not the ones who told him to trade for Kemp. We're not the ones who told him to trade for, and sign Derek Anderson to a big contract. We're not the ones who buys things and devalues them.


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## BlazeTop (Jan 22, 2004)

Hard to be worthless when you are the 5th richest person in the world....

Hey it could be worse, he could be the 5th richest person in the world and not be willing to go over the cap at all...... :raised_ey


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Hap,
What do you know about the ASCN situation? Why should Paul have stuck with it?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

BEER&BASKETBALL said:


> Hap,
> What do you know about the ASCN situation? Why should Paul have stuck with it?


whether or not he should've stuck with it wasn't my point. it's that it wasn't US the _fans_ who did it. thats all.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> [/B]
> 
> It does a little since I believe the city receives a majority of the parking revenues.



Correct me if I'm wrong, SA, but didn't the city put in a bunch of money for the construction of the parking structure?


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

MARIS61 said:


> When he gives us back the winning team we had when he came here, we'll buy more of all that.


We had a winning team, with a full RG but a majority of people *****ed and moaned to get rid of that winning team, so Paul listened and now NO ONE is following through on how they would go to games even if they were losing just to support a good Character team. So before you start blaming Paul for everything why dont you look in the mirror and see how Paul was slapped in the face for giving this team good Character and losing record then the fans bail.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> we're also reaping what paul allen and bob whitsitt sowed.


They sowed a winning team. It was fan backlash against "bad character guys" that forced a change to the current, glorious Nash era, where every move takes the team further from contention.

And, as the best irony of all, the team is a mix of good character and bad character guys...just like it always was and just like almost every other team in the NBA.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

Minstrel said:


> They sowed a winning team. It was fan backlash against "bad character guys" that forced a change to the current, glorious Nash era, where every move takes the team further from contention.
> 
> And, as the best irony of all, the team is a mix of good character and bad character guys...just like it always was and just like almost every other team in the NBA.



:clap:


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

yakbladder said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, SA, but didn't the city put in a bunch of money for the construction of the parking structure?


Not sure on the structures themselves...I know they payed for all the costs of road construction around the garden when it was built.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> They sowed a winning team. It was fan backlash against "bad character guys" that forced a change to the current, glorious Nash era, where every move takes the team further from contention.
> 
> And, as the best irony of all, the team is a mix of good character and bad character guys...just like it always was and just like almost every other team in the NBA.



sowed a winning team that despite selling out the RG, still lost money.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> sowed a winning team that despite selling out the RG, still lost money.


And now the team is losing games as well as money. That's worse.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> And now the team is losing games as well as money. That's worse.


I'd say it's not worse, because even with not selling out and having control of the RG, they're still losing less $$ than they did when they lost 100 million in 1 season when they made the playoffs, had a decent crowd every night and he still was getting the $$ from the arena.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> I'd say it's not worse, because even with not selling out and having control of the RG, they're still losing less $$ than they did when they lost 100 million in 1 season when they made the playoffs, had a decent crowd every night and he still was getting the $$ from the arena.


For the fans, it's much worse, since we're only in it for the entertainment, not the accounting.

And even for ownership, it must be worse to lose money while losing games, as opposed to losing money while winning games. Not only is the financial situation failing, the competitive side is, also. I assume sports owners have some interest in the competitiveness of their sports teams, otherwise they'd invest in something else.


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

Even if I did have mucho money in the bank I would not be happy about loosing $600 million in a business venture. I think that Mr. Allen has alot to do with the way the money was lost, but you have to stop the bleeding some how. I think the timing of his plea to get some help financially is pretty much a joke. You guys tore the whole team apart, lost all of your fan base with crap moves, and you want money now....hahaha

Mr. Allen, if you want to sell the team, do it! Quit crying like a little ***** because your ***** hurts from bad business deals that you yourself created. I sympathize with your decision on not wanting to loose anymore money, but be a man and at least try to fix it before you run away. I would fire Nash and patterson right away and find me some real basketball people to fill those positions. I would make some kind of agreement with the Rose Garden to buy it back. I would have a fire sale with the roster, and actually get some talent in here. If things don't look better in 3 years, get the hell outta dodge. :cheers:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> For the fans, it's much worse, since we're only in it for the entertainment, not the accounting.
> 
> And even for ownership, it must be worse to lose money while losing games, as opposed to losing money while winning games. Not only is the financial situation failing, the competitive side is, also. I assume sports owners have some interest in the competitiveness of their sports teams, otherwise they'd invest in something else.


I was talking from a financial situation, not how us fans like it or not.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

Hap said:


> sowed a winning team that despite selling out the RG, still lost money.


I'm having trouble understanding how this was a bad thing from the fans' point of view. allen was willing to buy a successful team for the blazer fans to root for with the money he got from other sources (read: allen's pocket). obviously paying $100M to player personnel is not going to make profit in a small market like portland, but he did it anyway to have a good team. 

at some point other things than winning got more important to the fans, or at least so they said, and allen reacted by starting the rebuilding process to get the fans a team they wanted. the fans wanted the best players out, so that's what he did (with a little help from nash/patterson). now that the team doesn't have the bad seeds anymore, they suck on the court, and as a result allen is not willing to spend ****load of money anymore to support a team just for your pleasure. what's the point of spending millions and millions, if the fans don't even appreciate it?

.. the bottomline is, in today's nba, a small-market franchise must have a genius of a GM to be constantly successful. or suck in right season and have a good luck in lottery. or the owner must be willing to spend a lot of his own money to support a team.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

el_Diablo said:


> I'm having trouble understanding how this was a bad thing from the fans' point of view. allen was willing to buy a successful team for the blazer fans to root for with the money he got from other sources (read: allen's pocket). obviously paying $100M to player personnel is not going to make profit in a small market like portland, but he did it anyway to have a good team.
> 
> at some point other things than winning got more important to the fans, or at least so they said, and allen reacted by starting the rebuilding process to get the fans a team they wanted. the fans wanted the best players out, so that's what he did (with a little help from nash/patterson). now that the team doesn't have the bad seeds anymore, they suck on the court, and as a result allen is not willing to spend ****load of money anymore to support a team just for your pleasure. what's the point of spending millions and millions, if the fans don't even appreciate it?
> 
> .. the bottomline is, in today's nba, a small-market franchise must have a genius of a GM to be constantly successful. or suck in right season and have a good luck in lottery. or the owner must be willing to spend a lot of his own money to support a team.


see above post


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

i don't think Accountants make the all-star team...do they?


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Todd said:


> Even if I did have mucho money in the bank I would not be happy about loosing $600 million in a business venture. I think that Mr. Allen has alot to do with the way the money was lost, but you have to stop the bleeding some how. I think the timing of his plea to get some help financially is pretty much a joke. You guys tore the whole team apart, lost all of your fan base with crap moves, and you want money now....hahaha
> 
> Mr. Allen, if you want to sell the team, do it! Quit crying like a little ***** because your ***** hurts from bad business deals that you yourself created. I sympathize with your decision on not wanting to loose anymore money, but be a man and at least try to fix it before you run away. I would fire Nash and patterson right away and find me some real basketball people to fill those positions. I would make some kind of agreement with the Rose Garden to buy it back. I would have a fire sale with the roster, and actually get some talent in here. If things don't look better in 3 years, get the hell outta dodge. :cheers:


Rep.

PBF


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Tom said:


> i don't think Accountants make the all-star team...do they?


You can't afford the contracts of All-star caliber players without good accountants and other business minded folk. The current Blazers are a perfect example.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

I saw an above post saying fire sale i was wondering what that means?Getting rid of young talent or what?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Zidane said:


> I saw an above post saying fire sale i was wondering what that means?Getting rid of young talent or what?


It's more common on baseball (they have no salary cap, and hence, you can trade A-Rod for a player making a LOT less than him) but it boils down to a team trading away big name players/big contracts for picks or lesser known expiring contracts, and not trying to prime the "youth pump" (ooh, thats a bad visual). 

If Portland trades Zach, Theo and Darius this summer, and all they get out of it was some scrap from Altanta, thats a fire sale. If they trade the 3, and get 2 1st round picks (maybe even 1 lotto this year) and a decent player, thats as "woah, we screwed the pooch on signing these guys" kinda trade.

If we can con someone into giving us an all star for those guys, thats a "see? shut up, he's not selling/moving/blowing up the team" trade.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Zidane said:


> I saw an above post saying fire sale i was wondering what that means?Getting rid of young talent or what?


Generally a 'fire sale' is getting rid of something at a absurdly low price. I don't know the origin, but perhaps when a business burned down, whatever goods were saved from the fire were sold quickly and therefore cheaply.

barfo


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