# Deron Rips AK47's Work Ethic



## HB (May 1, 2004)

And the plot thickens lol



> Utah point guard Deron Williams wants Andrei Kirilenko back with the Jazz next season, but hopes his unhappy teammate brings an improved work ethic with him.
> 
> In a Friday afternoon radio interview on 1280 The Zone, Williams told Salt Lake Tribune columnist Gordon Monson and co-host Kevin Graham that Kirilenko can be "a special player for us" if he returns with the right attitude.
> 
> ...


*LINK*


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## girllovesthegame (Nov 3, 2005)

LMAO! Can AK can go back to Utah now? Seems like it could make for an ugly situation.

http://www.1280thezone.com/persons/bigshowblog/DeronWilliams9-21-07.mp3


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The funny thing is, people have been saying this for a year. He hasn't improved and now this kind of stuff comes out.


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## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

Wow, Derron Williams is a punk! He's purposely going against what the coach draws up and making his team worse because he doesn't like someone's work ethic. Apparently Williams thinks he's more important than the team and his decision making is better than Jerry Sloan's.

Derron Williams has some serious immaturity and ego issues to work out.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I think this is good. Deron is just being a leader and calling someone out when needed. Cause, come on. Kirilenko has been a real baby lately. With his publicized crying and **** (Pierce, Davis, and this years playoffs). Him complaining about touches and **** when he's not doing anything. I don't see why any Jazz fan would still want him on the team.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

LamarButler said:


> I think this is good. Deron is just being a leader and calling someone out when needed. Cause, come on. Kirilenko has been a real baby lately. With his publicized crying and **** (Pierce, Davis, and this years playoffs). Him complaining about touches and **** when he's not doing anything. *I don't see why any Jazz fan would still want him on the team.*


He is still a pretty unique player


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Blazed said:


> Wow, Derron Williams is a punk! He's purposely going against what the coach draws up and making his team worse because he doesn't like someone's work ethic. Apparently Williams thinks he's more important than the team and his decision making is better than Jerry Sloan's.
> 
> Derron Williams has some serious immaturity and ego issues to work out.


Uh wrong again. Sloan puts the offense in Deron's hands. The Jazz won 50 games on the backs of Deron, Boozer and Okur, not Kirilenko. Maybe he doesn't have confidence in Kirilenko making open shots (which shouldn't be a surprise). Kirilenko had his worst year in relation to minutes played last season.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

ooo the drama i love it. it's like the kobe situation all over again!


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

You don't gain anything from this.Only thing you do is make the situation worse and reduce kirilenko's value.
Of course it's already virtually impossible to get anything of comparable value to him given the size of his contract and his poor performance in the  regular season last year.It's really unlikely that he goes anywhere unless Utah just wants an expiring,especially since noone has any capspace.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I love Deron for this. It makes it more likely for AK to be cut or leave, hopefully to the lakers


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Blazed said:


> Wow, Derron Williams is a punk! He's purposely going against what the coach draws up and making his team worse because he doesn't like someone's work ethic. Apparently Williams thinks he's more important than the team and his decision making is better than Jerry Sloan's.
> 
> Derron Williams has some serious immaturity and ego issues to work out.


I didn't read it that way. In the example, I took it to mean that he trusts Matt Harpring because of his work ethic in comparison to Kirilenko. Not that he's trying to snub Kirilenko because he dislikes him.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

I like what Deron did. He pretty much told Kirilenko that it's not the coach's fault he sucked last season. I completely agree. Sloan is a HOF coach. Kirilenko is paid $10+ million a year to simply give a ****. How hard is it to practice for a few hours a day? During the season coaches keep the practicing down to keep players fresher. If Deron is deciding based on after practice shootarounds, he needs a different criteria to exclde him from being passed to. I just don't think that they like him on the team. If he needs out, he should get out. I think Richard Jefferson for Kirilenko would be a great trade for both teams!


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

That Deron is something special. Watch out for him over the next few years...


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

Word has it there's been tension between these two for quite a while.

Deron's argument seems more credible than that of Kirilenko stating that the Jazz just don't have an offense for him. Kirilenko needed to redefine his place on the team for them to stick together, and he didn't improve anything in the last few years. So, with as little as he tried to get into it, it's no surprise it's come to this. Admittedly the Jazz didn't really go out of their way to accommodate him, but what the hell... it's coach Sloan.

At this point, I wouldn't mind seeing the Jazz just nulling his contract (as Kirilenko is prepared for this), and him going off for nothing in return. It'll save money for Deron and a couple other guys coming off their rookie contracts.


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## Lebbron (Nov 20, 2005)

Regardless of what happens to AK or whatever I don't see them getting out of the first round this year. I suspect they have a bad lockerroom atmosphere last year was a fluke.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

The only reason they wouldn't make it out of the first round is because Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas and Houston are better teams right now.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

Blazed said:


> Wow, Derron Williams is a punk! He's purposely going against what the coach draws up and making his team worse because he doesn't like someone's work ethic. Apparently Williams thinks he's more important than the team and his decision making is better than Jerry Sloan's.
> 
> Derron Williams has some serious immaturity and ego issues to work out.


Psh, they went to the WCF and you say Deron is making histeam worse.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

If Williams wants to be a team leader and call somebody out - he needs to do it to their face and in the privacy of the locker-room. Pissing on a team-mate in the press is classless!


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Oldmangrouch said:


> If Williams wants to be a team leader and call somebody out - he needs to do it to their face and in the privacy of the locker-room. Pissing on a team-mate in the press is classless!


True.

Punk move by Deron.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

PauloCatarino said:


> True.
> 
> Punk move by Deron.


Not so if he said it to AK first. I think as long as you tell them first, it doesn't matter. You have every right to express your opinions of another player, especially if his actions are harming the team. Most likely he said it just to express his thoughts and talk some **** about him because he doesn't like AK personally. That needs to stay behind closed doors.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Blazed said:


> Wow, Derron Williams is a punk! He's purposely going against what the coach draws up and making his team worse because he doesn't like someone's work ethic. Apparently Williams thinks he's more important than the team and his decision making is better than Jerry Sloan's.
> 
> Derron Williams has some serious immaturity and ego issues to work out.


Jumpshot eFG% 

Kirilenko .299
Harpring .401

Yeah, what horrible decision making by Williams. You can see that he definitely should have been making the pass to AK-47 to stick those jumpers.



liekomgj4ck said:


> ooo the drama i love it. it's like the kobe situation all over again!


AK-47, he's Kobe without the talent or work ethic! :bsmile:



IceMan23and3 said:


> I like what Deron did. He pretty much told Kirilenko that it's not the coach's fault he sucked last season. I completely agree. Sloan is a HOF coach. Kirilenko is paid $10+ million a year to simply give a ****. How hard is it to practice for a few hours a day? During the season coaches keep the practicing down to keep players fresher. If Deron is deciding based on after practice shootarounds, he needs a different criteria to exclde him from being passed to. I just don't think that they like him on the team. If he needs out, he should get out. I think Richard Jefferson for Kirilenko would be a great trade for both teams!


I agree here, Kirilenko is basically a younger Wally Szczerbiak in the sense that he's a roleplayer level talent getting max/near max money that thinks he's a star (this is not a comparison of their games, which are completely different, only of their attitudes and situations). Williams is absolutely right to take this public, we can infer from all the comments made by Boozer etc. last year during the playoffs that they've already broached this with AK privately, to no avail given Kirilenko's recent public remarks. Kirilenko should learn to be grateful that _someone_ in Utah was stupid enough to give him that contract and go out and do what's asked of him, because he's really not _that_ good. I agree that Jefferson for Kirilenko is probably good for both teams, the Nets could use another body at the 4/5 with Krstic coming off major knee surgery and Utah needs a 3, even if it's just Jefferson.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I really dont like the approach Deron took either. Most especially the passing part. But Jazz management should be happy that their star player made this comments in defense of the team.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Wait a minute. AK47 already said he was being misused as a standstill jumpshooter. Can't wait to see Utah's defense after they jettison AK47 and have a virtual layup drill with ZERO shotblocking and no good perimeter defenders.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Well he did average an almost career low 2.1BPG. That is TERRIBLE! What is he doing on defense?!? I mean he should take a page from Boozer's defense of 0.3BPG. Maybe, just maybe he is a better player than Okur. Maybe he SHOULD have gotten more than 6 shots per game. That my only defense to him. Happy Trails AK-47. Enjoy NJ! (makes the most sense that they'll trade him out of the conference and for a need)


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> Wait a minute. AK47 already said he was being misused as a standstill jumpshooter. Can't wait to see Utah's defense after they jettison AK47 and have a virtual layup drill with ZERO shotblocking and no good perimeter defenders.


This is right. As much as people rip Kirilenko nowadays (which is a change of pace from him being overrated for so long), he is still the 2nd or 3rd most important player on the team. He is an average man defender but he covers up a lot of mistakes with his help defense. 

Deron Williams has become the leader, best player and most important player on the Jazz, so I don't mind these comments. He did say he wants Andrei back and so forth, he just gave him a little kick in the butt, so to speak.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I thought Boozer was their best player


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## Balzac (Jun 29, 2006)

The Jazz needs Kirilenko. Conversely, Kirlineko needs to shut the hell up. Instead of crying and whining, he should work harder and become more involved. If what Deron said is true, then Kirilenko's poor season was due to the fact that he didn't put in much effort, and not because of the addition of other players. What he needs to realize is that he's just not good enough offensively to shoot as much as he used to. What the Jazz needs to realize is that he's a good enough offensive player to get more touches than he did last season. 

If anyone bothered watching the EuroBasket tourney, it's rather apparent that AK-47 can still play the game at a very high level. I just hope the Jazz can get this situation rectified; if all their core players stay together, it'll be a matter of time before they have a championship caliber team.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I don't think Utah really could ship Kirilenko unless they got another SF back.Harpring is the only reliable NBA wing they have.You might hope that Brewer could develop rapidly and also that Almond will contribute,but that would be pretty foolhardy if you were serious about competing in the Western Conference.Utah is already weak at the SG and if you just gave Kirilenko away you'd be weak at both wings.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Balzac said:


> The Jazz needs Kirilenko. Conversely, Kirlineko needs to shut the hell up. Instead of crying and whining, he should work harder and become more involved. If what Deron said is true, then Kirilenko's poor season was due to the fact that he didn't put in much effort, and not because of the addition of other players. What he needs to realize is that he's just not good enough offensively to shoot as much as he used to. What the Jazz needs to realize is that he's a good enough offensive player to get more touches than he did last season.
> 
> If anyone bothered watching the EuroBasket tourney, it's rather apparent that AK-47 can still play the game at a very high level. I just hope the Jazz can get this situation rectified; if all their core players stay together, it'll be a matter of time before they have a championship caliber team.


I disagree. AK47 is a versatile NBA PF. He is not a SF. It is a misuse of talent. It makes as much sense as putting Boozer at SF and having him shoot 3s.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

As far as defending goes, we have two stellar defenders in Brewer and Millsap. It will suffer a bit, but it won't be a "lay-up drill" like is being stated. Remember that Kirilenko is no longer a league leader in blocks and we did just fine last year.

Memo and Boozer are still below average though.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Balzac said:


> The Jazz needs Kirilenko. Conversely, Kirlineko needs to shut the hell up. Instead of crying and whining, he should work harder and become more involved. If what Deron said is true, then Kirilenko's poor season was due to the fact that he didn't put in much effort, and not because of the addition of other players. What he needs to realize is that he's just not good enough offensively to shoot as much as he used to. What the Jazz needs to realize is that he's a good enough offensive player to get more touches than he did last season.
> 
> If anyone bothered watching the EuroBasket tourney, it's rather apparent that AK-47 can still play the game at a very high level. I just hope the Jazz can get this situation rectified; if all their core players stay together, it'll be a matter of time before they have a championship caliber team.


The Jazz practice for hours a day, and he has a bad work ethic because he doesn't hang around and shoot jumpers for 20 minutes?!? My lil bro shoots 30-45 minutes every day and he's lucky to his 30% of his shots. If that is what you are basing bad work ethic with, then you need a new criteria. The Jazz aren't using him properly and he doesn't like the situation. No one is winning right now with AK where he is. It's time for them to part ways.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

IceMan23and3 said:


> The Jazz practice for hours a day, and he has a bad work ethic because he doesn't hang around and shoot jumpers for 20 minutes?!? My lil bro shoots 30-45 minutes every day and he's lucky to his 30% of his shots. If that is what you are basing bad work ethic with, then you need a new criteria. The Jazz aren't using him properly and he doesn't like the situation. No one is winning right now with AK where he is. It's time for them to part ways.


The good thing about all of this is that no matter what the Jazz do, it won't be a bad situation. Even if he walks from his contract, they'll sign Williams to a big extension and more than likely the same with Millsap.

I really don't know what else they could use except a very good outside shooter. I suppose that's why they drafted Almond, but I can't imagine him being the answer right away.

Finally, I think it'll be hard to get a decent part in return because of the insane salary he makes. Especially that offensively, this team definitely does not need help, except on the perimeter.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, but the worst case scenario is that the Jazz trade for a crappy, overpaid player coming off his contract next year. I'd prefer them just mutually terminating the contract.


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## jman23 (Aug 13, 2007)

yes deron williams!!!!!!!!!!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If Kirilenko is a PF, then he is the 2nd best PF on the roster behind Boozer and he should be coming off the bench.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Why criticize him publicly? It's classless. And it lowers Kirilenko's trade value.

AK is easily the Jazz's best defender. And he's not merely an average man defender. He's clearly above average there.

And really, does it matter that he doesn't hang around for 20 minutes after practice to shoot jumpers? He probably trains a lot anyway. 20 mins after a gruelling regular practice has finished may not be all that useful to everyone. The rookies just do it to show the coach that they're working hard.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Stockton did it. Malone did it. He should do it, because he's the highest paid player on the team, and the least reliable.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I feel AK47. I mean Sloan is resurrecting Stockton/Malone but if your system dies not win titles with 2 top 5 all time at the positions of importance then why be so rock solid agai st innovating.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> I feel AK47. I mean Sloan is resurrecting Stockton/Malone but if your system dies not win titles with 2 top 5 all time at the positions of importance then why be so rock solid agai st innovating.


And the best part is that Sloan never had a 3rd player like AK when StocktontoMalone was going on.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

They did have Hornacek. He was an atrocious defender, though.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The thing is, when Kirilenko was the lead dog that lead to a MAX contract, the team didn't make the playoffs. So why should they do it Kirilenko's way. They made the WCF's with that system and Boozer and Deron are nowhere near as good as Stockton/Malone (at least not yet). I'd rather do it Sloan's way than appease Kirilenko. 

As I said, if you switch him with Josh Smith, the Jazz would make out like bandits.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

HKF said:


> The thing is, when Kirilenko was the lead dog that lead to a MAX contract, the team didn't make the playoffs. So why should they do it Kirilenko's way. They made the WCF's with that system and Boozer and Deron are nowhere near as good as Stockton/Malone (at least not yet). I'd rather do it Sloan's way than appease Kirilenko.
> 
> As I said, if you switch him with Josh Smith, the Jazz would make out like bandits.


Are you serious? Look at those rosters and then acount for the fact that he was what..22/23. 

Yeah they Jazz would make out like bandits but Snith would be the exact same square peg trying to fit in a round hole and he would never resign there. In fact he would whine even more because Slisn would cost him at least $25 million.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Oldmangrouch said:


> If Williams wants to be a team leader and call somebody out - he needs to do it to their face and in the privacy of the locker-room. Pissing on a team-mate in the press is classless!


Thank you, Williams is going to be a star but he should lead by example not by opening his big mouth.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> The thing is, when Kirilenko was the lead dog that lead to a MAX contract, the team didn't make the playoffs. So why should they do it Kirilenko's way. They made the WCF's with that system and Boozer and Deron are nowhere near as good as Stockton/Malone (at least not yet). I'd rather do it Sloan's way than appease Kirilenko.
> 
> As I said, if you switch him with Josh Smith, the Jazz would make out like bandits.


Honestly, Childress might be a better fit for the Jazz than Smith (though I like Josh more). He's a much more reliable shooter than Smith, and a very good wing defender. He's also the kind of guy that noiselessly does the dirty work and would have no problems being the third/fourth scoring option. 



IceMan23and3 said:


> The Jazz practice for hours a day, and he has a bad work ethic because he doesn't hang around and shoot jumpers for 20 minutes?!? My lil bro shoots 30-45 minutes every day and he's lucky to his 30% of his shots.


So you're Kirilenko's older brother then?


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

There's no way that the Jazz get anything close to Josh Smith for Kirilenko....Especially not when they owe him 63 million dollars.Most likely they'd get something like 30 cents on the dollar for him in the current circumstances and that would probably only be an expiring contract,which wouldn't have to be enormous since he's _*only *_owed around 13.5 million next year.

Still the thing that's being overlooked here is that Kirilenko played well in the playoffs last year.In particular the second round where he averaged 16.2 points a game.You take him off that team and they probably lose to Houston in the first round.You take him off next year's team without getting something comparable back and you're really going to emasculate that team.Kirilenko certainly didn't look that great last year,but you subtract him from that team without adding something else and you're going to regret it real soon.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

rainman said:


> Oldmangrouch said:
> 
> 
> > If Williams wants to be a team leader and call somebody out - he needs to do it to their face and in the privacy of the locker-room. Pissing on a team-mate in the press is classless!
> ...


They did talk to Kirilenko privately, or have you already forgot last year's playoffs? In frustration, when they were getting wasted by the Spurs, both Boozer and Williams said that some of the Jazz players weren't quite so motivated by winning and losing and were taking a very casual approach to the game. What were they supposed to do? Let AK spend the next three years cruising and whining about how he's being used? Bird, Magic, Michael and the rest of the stars of the golden age had no troubles or qualms about publicly calling out guys that weren't doing what it took to win, Williams shouldn't either. He's the best goddamned player on the loser of the Western Conference Finals, and it's his _job_ to keep the rest of that team in line. They've pretty obviously tried talking to him privately, they've tried hinting publicly that he was giving less than 100% on the court, and now AK is publicly whining again. Good for Deron for telling him to shut the hell up and get to work.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

unluckyseventeen said:


> They did have Hornacek. He was an atrocious defender, though.


Hornacek was a good defender. He guarded Jordan pretty well in the Finals, and was praised by both Sloan and Jackson.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

ehmunro said:


> So you're Kirilenko's older brother then?


No, his older brother was a fantastic boxer in the 80s, he was found out to be taking steroids, but that was after killing a former heavyweight champ in an exhibition fight. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXHIBITION! AN EXHIBITION!!! He has been quoted as saying, "I must break you." "You will lose." and "If he dies, he dies."



MemphisX said:


> Are you serious? Look at those rosters and then acount for the fact that he was what..22/23.
> 
> Yeah they Jazz would make out like bandits but Snith would be the exact same square peg trying to fit in a round hole and he would never resign there. In fact he would whine even more because Slisn would cost him at least $25 million.


 I'm sorry but who the **** is Snith and Slisn?!?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

IceMan23and3 said:


> I'm sorry but who the **** is Snith and Slisn?!?


Start chasing Patrón Silver with Old Ruffian then look again in an hour and it will make perfect sense.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

ehmunro said:


> Start chasing Patrón Silver with Old Ruffian then look again in an hour and it will make perfect sense.


did you really need to link them? :lol:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

I ran into Deron at Life Time Fitness in Plano the other night. He's my boy, and I back his comments 100%.

:biggrin:










This of course has nothing to do with the fact that he shook my hand and took a picture with me.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

IceMan23and3 said:


> did you really need to link them? :lol:


Not everyone would know what they were. :bsmile:


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## BDB (Dec 19, 2006)

MemphisX said:


> Wait a minute. AK47 already said he was being misused as a standstill jumpshooter. Can't wait to see Utah's defense after they jettison AK47 and have a virtual layup drill with ZERO shotblocking and no good perimeter defenders.


Really they don't need his offense he's a great shotblocker/defender.
If they buy him out who starts in his place? That team's chemistry is f'd up right now and Deron's not helping.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Saying the exact opposite would have helped his cause more... save saying these things for after/if he was traded.

he doesnt have huge value to other teams because of his contract already, but there are some decent things the jazz could get in return... they dont need the bad team mate lable lowering his price.

if they decide to pursue that route anyway


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

RJ for AK47 is the best deal. AK47 can get his easy points just running the break with Kidd. Besides shotblocking, RJ is a pretty good wing.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

RJ would be the ideal wing for Utah at SF. He can run, defend, doesn't need plays run for him, decent jumpshot, and is unselfish. Question is, does Rod Thorn want AK-47. Thorn's not really a fan of AK47, beleiving he is injury prone and more of a PF.

I wouldn't know how to feel about this trade. RJ always plays better in the playoffs, something that can not be said about AK and as someone in here said before, how reliable is he?


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> They did talk to Kirilenko privately, or have you already forgot last year's playoffs? In frustration, when they were getting wasted by the Spurs, both Boozer and Williams said that some of the Jazz players weren't quite so motivated by winning and losing and were taking a very casual approach to the game. What were they supposed to do? Let AK spend the next three years cruising and whining about how he's being used? Bird, Magic, Michael and the rest of the stars of the golden age had no troubles or qualms about publicly calling out guys that weren't doing what it took to win, Williams shouldn't either. He's the best goddamned player on the loser of the Western Conference Finals, and it's his _job_ to keep the rest of that team in line. They've pretty obviously tried talking to him privately, they've tried hinting publicly that he was giving less than 100% on the court, and now AK is publicly whining again. Good for Deron for telling him to shut the hell up and get to work.


What fellow players did Bird and Magic ever call out in public?, it's one thing when the guy is gone but you might just have to play on the same team with the him next year. To me it's bush, Williams isnt making points with anyone here, everyone knows the situation and Deron's fellow teammates will be looking over their shoulders when the snitch is around.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Richard Jefferson is just an inferior talent who is also getting big money and who also can't shoot with range. Plus RJ is not as good a defender. Utah would be a much poorer team with that trade.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> Richard Jefferson is just an inferior talent who is also getting big money and who also can't shoot with range. Plus RJ is not as good a defender. Utah would be a much poorer team with that trade.



Cannot shoot with range? Career percentage around 47%. Especially in 04-05, wher ehe was healthy and was amazingly efficient. Beleive he was leading the team in percentage per shot.

Making less money then AK but still overpaid.

Not as good of a defender but still more then decent

Utah would be poorer keeping AK or letting him go but they'd still be a good team with RJ.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

rainman said:


> it's one thing when the guy is gone but you might just have to play on the same team with the him next year. To me it's bush, Williams isnt making points with anyone here, everyone knows the situation and Deron's fellow teammates will be looking over their shoulders when the snitch is around.


Who cares if the Jazz can't unload him? Williams is the best player on the team, it's not his job to accommodate Kirilenko. I doubt Williams' teammates will be "looking over their shoulders" for anything except Williams next pass. There are times when this sort of thing is necessary. Kirilenko is an awful shooter and not working to improve his shot, _and complaining that they don't allow him to shoot enough_. He has to shut the hell up and get his *** to work, he's a roleplayer, it's his job to fit in with what the Jazz are doing, not the other way around.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> Richard Jefferson is just an inferior talent who is also getting big money and who also can't shoot with range. Plus RJ is not as good a defender. Utah would be a much poorer team with that trade.


Richard Jefferson is a better scorer and is one of the most efficient scorers in the league. For both teams this is probably one of those deals that makes both better. RJ is a better man to man defender than AK47. No Utah would not be a poorer team considering RJ actually STEPS UP in the playoffs.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

HB said:


> Richard Jefferson is a better scorer and is one of the most efficient scorers in the league. For both teams this is probably one of those deals that makes both better. RJ is a better man to man defender than AK47. No Utah would not be a poorer team considering RJ actually STEPS UP in the playoffs.


The Jazz don't need scoring so how will he help the Jazz?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

They dont need scoring, oh really? Maybe I watched the wrong series when Boozer and Deron were pretty much the only Jazz players that showed up against the Spurs *offensively*

And did you miss the part where I said RJ is a pretty good man to man defender


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

If RJ could stay healthy (pretty big if), UTah wouldn't be so bad off. He adds offensive explosiveness and a much better attitude to that team, while taking away defensive explosiveness.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

HB said:


> They dont need scoring, oh really? Maybe I watched the wrong series when Boozer and Deron were pretty much the only Jazz players that showed up against the Spurs *offensively*
> 
> And did you miss the part where I said RJ is a pretty good man to man defender


Without AK47, they never make it to the Spurs.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You know if T-Mac doesn't choke, we are probably not having this conversation, but against Houston, Kirilenko was BAD for 5 out of 7 games. I am not sure why anyone would want Kirilenko over Jefferson, because in the playoffs when it counts, Jefferson always plays MUCH better than AK. 

Needless to say, having someone else on the team who can finish would be huge for the Jazz. Kirilenko is not underrated. He's still overrated by people who are watching his statlines. This guy is constantly searching for blocks instead of just playing good solid defense. He can't defend PF's well at all. To me, he's Antwan Jamison but the defensive version. 

You can't win in the NBA with a guy like him, making so much money. He's a damn role player.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> You know if T-Mac doesn't choke, we are probably not having this conversation, but against Houston, Kirilenko was BAD for 5 out of 7 games. I am not sure why anyone would want Kirilenko over Jefferson, because in the playoffs when it counts, Jefferson always plays MUCH better than AK.
> 
> Needless to say, having someone else on the team who can finish would be huge for the Jazz. Kirilenko is not underrated. He's still overrated by people who are watching his statlines. This guy is constantly searching for blocks instead of just playing good solid defense. He can't defend PF's well at all. To me, he's Antwan Jamison but the defensive version.
> 
> You can't win in the NBA with a guy like him, making so much money. He's a damn role player.


I'll take issue with the last part, as long as you don't repeat the mistake of giving a roleplayer a max deal you can win a title with someone like Kirilenko coming off your bench. That's not the problem so much as his incessant whining about playing time and his tendency to turn turtle under pressure. I do like the "defensive version of Antawn Jamison" comparison. I think it's a pretty good summation of what he is. There just aren't going to be a lot of deals out there for AK-47, so Utah has to either convince him to shut the hell up and do his job or trade him for expiring deals so that they can take a run at a free agent this summer (like Josh Childress).


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

You're stuck with Kirilenko.You're not getting anything of substantial value in return for him,only possible way he leaves is in a salary dump for an expiring.He's not going to turn his back on 63 million dollars so that he can play for a third as much for CSKA,not unless he's Ron Artest level crazy.You may as well get used to that idea and make the best of it.

Now no matter if Kirilenko is overrated,underrated or underinsured the guy is an NBA player with NBA talent who can contribute to an NBA team.You remove him from the Jazz without substituting something comparable and they aren't going to be nearly as good a team.Even if Brewer steps up you're left with a very thin bench and quality depth was the real strength of the Jazz last year.You'd take one of the best sixth men in the league and turn him into a starter where Harpring would face many less favorable matchups.No matter what you think of Kirilenko it's insane to act as though the Jazz can discard him for nothing without suffering a lot.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

I am so glad Williams called him out. Can Kirilenko be any more of a selfish, immature crybaby? He doesn't deserve to be more involved in the offense. It's pretty disgusting that he can't accept that and do what his coach asks of him and what's right for his team.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> Without AK47, they never make it to the Spurs.


The same AK47 that was virtually a disappearing act in the playoffs. Lets not overrate his performances shall we.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Kirilenko did virtually nothing offensively against Houston, but he played very good defense on McGrady and played excellent team defense. He does sometimes fish for blocks at the expense of man defense. But the Jazz have Mehmet Okur at center and Boozer at PF. Someone has to step up and assume that interior defense role. There are very few non-big-men who can do that in this league.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

HKF said:


> To me, he's Antwan Jamison but the defensive version.


I like that.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> Who cares if the Jazz can't unload him? Williams is the best player on the team, it's not his job to accommodate Kirilenko. I doubt Williams' teammates will be "looking over their shoulders" for anything except Williams next pass. There are times when this sort of thing is necessary. Kirilenko is an awful shooter and not working to improve his shot, _and complaining that they don't allow him to shoot enough_. He has to shut the hell up and get his *** to work, he's a roleplayer, it's his job to fit in with what the Jazz are doing, not the other way around.



So who benefits from him calling out a teammate, you? The player plays and management manages, by the way these guys are in the same union, unacceptable to call out a fellow union worker.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

HB said:


> The same AK47 that was virtually a disappearing act in the playoffs. Lets not overrate his performances shall we.


Kirilenko averaged 9.6 points per game in the playoffs.That's not exactly disappearing.Maybe you're thinking about Mehmet Okur who averaged 11.8 points per game while taking sixty more shots than Kirilenko.In actual fact while Deron Williams averaged twice as many points he took more than twice as many shots(2.25 times) and Carlos Boozer took nearly three times as many shots to score 23.5 points.

There are only so many shot attempts available in a basketball game.Saying that Kirilenko disappeared is just facetious.He's not getting the volume of shot attempts for him to be a consistent offensive factor,but he obviously contributed a great deal to the Jazz in the playoffs.Exactly what are we expecting from the fourth scorer on a team that may have the best depth in the NBA?In fact the Jazz had five players average double figures last season and none of them were named Kirilenko.Kirilenko's scoring was slightly up in the playoffs,Harpring and Fisher scored a little less in the playoffs.Okur's scoring was down by a third and he was taking up a lot of field goal attempts.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Didnt Okur have to guard both Yao and TD? The dude took a beating throughout the playoffs, his offensive woes could be excused. AK47 did not show up for the Spurs series, anyone who watched it can attest to that. Except for a few games against the Warriors, he was pretty much non factor on the offensive end. You do realize they went to 7 games against the Spurs beause there were periods when the team had offensive draughts. 9.6 ppg for the playoffs for a guy making the type of money is nothing to write home about. 

And we all know why he wasnt getting many shots, after all isnt that why this thread was started


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Deron will need to get rid of AK so that Deron can sign a max contract.

What to you think?

Money is everything for a young player since Jazz will not win the ring soon.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

If life were fair, Deron Williams would have the highest contract on the team, Carlos Boozer would be a defending NBA champion on the cavs, Dee Brown would still be on the team,Jerry Sloan will be charged iwth sexual harrasment, and Andrei Kirilenko will be averaging over 10 points a game with the Golden State Warriors. However life is unfair and now he is stuck with the Jazz and is about to make 63 million dollars over the next few years, I wish my life was unfair like that.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

rainman said:


> So who benefits from him calling out a teammate, you? The player plays and management manages, by the way these guys are in the same union, unacceptable to call out a fellow union worker.


Give me a ****ing break. Players have been calling each other out since the early days of the union. It's happened in all four major sports both before and after the advent of the professional players unions. At this point you're grasping at straws. The team leader leads. They've talked to him privately, hinted publicly, and Kirilenko is _still publicly whining_. _Someone_ needed to tell him to shut the hell up and work on his game. The man couldn't shoot me from point blank range with a sawed off ten gauge, he needs to learn how to shoot the damned ball.


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

ak brought it on himself. 

he signed a max contract then failed to live up to it (bad work ethic or not). his team improved and he didnt adapt- he can argue about his stats all he likes but that doesnt change the fact that the jazz improved with the new guys and sloans system.
he then broke down in front of the media.
to top it off he goes to the media and asks for a trade, even implying he'd rather sit than play (it even makes you wonder about some of his injuries this season).

then comes williams.
did deron lower his value? yes. but who put it down there to begin with?

i think hes a good role player but its as if he ruined his life by signing that contract.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> Give me a ****ing break. Players have been calling each other out since the early days of the union. It's happened in all four major sports both before and after the advent of the professional players unions. At this point you're grasping at straws. The team leader leads. They've talked to him privately, hinted publicly, and Kirilenko is _still publicly whining_. _Someone_ needed to tell him to shut the hell up and work on his game. The man couldn't shoot me from point blank range with a sawed off ten gauge, he needs to learn how to shoot the damned ball.


You still havent told me who Larry and Magic called out in public, you dont like the guy fine but dont make it sound like it's some noble thing to do.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

maradro said:


> ak brought it on himself.
> 
> he signed a max contract then failed to live up to it (bad work ethic or not). his team improved and he didnt adapt- he can argue about his stats all he likes but that doesnt change the fact that the jazz improved with the new guys and sloans system.
> he then broke down in front of the media.
> ...


This is what i dont get. AK47 is played out of position and it is his fault? How the hell does that work?

He demands shots and he is a whiner. He doesn't put up numbers and he is a slacker. These arhunents would have merit except he performed like the old AK vs. Golden State and Eurobasket.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

So what happened against San Antonio and Houston?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

rainman said:


> You still havent told me who Larry and Magic called out in public,


Well, Larry certainly gave Rick Roby enough public grief about his free throw shooting, when Cedric Maxwell was no longer getting the job done he was very vocal about it (and was the prime mover behind Maxwell being shipped out as compensation for Walton) and didn't make any bones about publicly pushing Reggie Lewis. Magic certainly played with a lot of Hall of Famers (which would decrease his opportunity for complaining), but I do recall him having words publicly with some of his teammates (talk to some of the older Lakers fans here). Dave Cowens (you know, that guy under the "C" section of the all-time top 50 list?) went ballistic on the entire ****ing Celtics team in the late 70s. About the only one he didn't publicly threaten to kill was Kermit Washington (and only because Kermit worked his *** off). In '78 we Boston fans kept waiting for Cowens to take a hatchet to Marvin Barnes. Bill Russell was also very vocal about teammates that thought they were bigger than the team. 

Don't act like this is some isolated phenomenon that's been completely unknown until today because you're talking **** here and you know it (the idiotic union remark is essentially an "I surrender" claim). It happens. It has happened. It will continue to happen. It's part of the NBA. AK-47 has been underachieving and *publicly* complaining _in spite of the fact that he's the problem_. Given the remarks from Boozer and Williams last year during the playoffs, it's pretty clear that they've exhausted the "behind closed doors" remedies _and AK is still publicly pouting_. He needs a kick in the ***. Don't try the "Williams has ruined his trade value!!!" schtick because his value is already at rock bottom, it's not like it can sink any further. I mean, jesus, at draft time there was talk of West/Szczerbiak for AK-47. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel there.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> Well, Larry certainly gave Rick Roby enough public grief about his free throw shooting, when Cedric Maxwell was no longer getting the job done he was very vocal about it (and was the prime mover behind Maxwell being shipped out as compensation for Walton) and didn't make any bones about publicly pushing Reggie Lewis. Magic certainly played with a lot of Hall of Famers (which would decrease his opportunity for complaining), but I do recall him having words publicly with some of his teammates (talk to some of the older Lakers fans here). Dave Cowens (you know, that guy under the "C" section of the all-time top 50 list?) went ballistic on the entire ****ing Celtics team in the late 70s. About the only one he didn't publicly threaten to kill was Kermit Washington (and only because Kermit worked his *** off). In '78 we Boston fans kept waiting for Cowens to take a hatchet to Marvin Barnes. Bill Russell was also very vocal about teammates that thought they were bigger than the team.
> 
> Don't act like this is some isolated phenomenon that's been completely unknown until today because you're talking **** here and you know it (the idiotic union remark is essentially an "I surrender" claim). It happens. It has happened. It will continue to happen. It's part of the NBA. AK-47 has been underachieving and *publicly* complaining _in spite of the fact that he's the problem_. Given the remarks from Boozer and Williams last year during the playoffs, it's pretty clear that they've exhausted the "behind closed doors" remedies _and AK is still publicly pouting_. He needs a kick in the ***. Don't try the "Williams has ruined his trade value!!!" schtick because his value is already at rock bottom, it's not like it can sink any further. I mean, jesus, at draft time there was talk of West/Szczerbiak for AK-47. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel there.


I havent lived in the Boston area since the late 70s so i guess i missed all the name calling by Bird and Cowens but you either have a hell of a memory or are just making up bull**** to make your point. As for the Union comment i take being part of one very serious.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Who cares about how seriously you take "being part of a union"? Professional athletes clearly don't, and have never had, and never will have your alleged attitude (because, frankly, the press doesn't give a **** what you think of your "fellow union members" rendering this a moot point). And how the hell could you have lived here from 1977-79 and _not_ remember that dysfunctional Celtics squad? Like in '77 when Wicks was loafing about on the court driving Cowens nutty? Have you forgot Dave's little AWOL episode when he took off in disgust that year, denouncing pretty much the entire team in the process?


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## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

Zzzz, after practice, someone has to be the first to leave. OMGZ, no 10-20 minutes of shooting?!?!!? I wonder if we can zoom in on the rest of Deron's life when he's not in practice. Extra slice of pizza?!?! :azdaja:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

eymang said:


> Zzzz, after practice, someone has to be the first to leave. OMGZ, no 10-20 minutes of shooting?!?!!? I wonder if we can zoom in on the rest of Deron's life when he's not in practice. Extra slice of pizza?!?! :azdaja:


One of those two guys is the best young point guard in the NBA, the other is one of three known human beings that's a worse shooter than Rajon Rondo.


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## Lebbron (Nov 20, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> Give me a ****ing break. Players have been calling each other out since the early days of the union. It's happened in all four major sports both before and after the advent of the professional players unions. At this point you're grasping at straws. The team leader leads. *They've talked to him privately*, hinted publicly, and Kirilenko is _still publicly whining_. _Someone_ needed to tell him to shut the hell up and work on his game. The man couldn't shoot me from point blank range with a sawed off ten gauge, he needs to learn how to shoot the damned ball.


lol Deron didn't if you listened to the interview his response to whether he talked to him is no and he says it basically like "why would I talk to him, he's AK"


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Both Boozer and Williams gave this story to the press without naming names during the playoffs. _Someone_ said something to AK.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

HKF said:


> So what happened against San Antonio and Houston?


Ding!


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

HKF said:


> So what happened against San Antonio and Houston?


Hmmm...he played his role and obviously you want to hold that against. However, you know what happened. Boozer and Deron got bent over by Duncan and Parker. 

I don't get what is so hard to understand. He is the 4th, sometimes 5th offensive option. He dominated one playoff series. IMO he earned his money.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

What playoff series did he dominate? Why was his contributions in that series any different from the others?


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

MemphisX said:


> Hmmm...he played his role and obviously you want to hold that against. However, you know what happened. Boozer and Deron got bent over by Duncan and Parker.
> 
> I don't get what is so hard to understand. He is the 4th, sometimes 5th offensive option. He dominated one playoff series. IMO he earned his money.


That's a great point. Even though he is earning MAX money, he is not being put in a position to help his team like he can. For a player of his abilities, he should be getting 10 shots a game at least. He has an ego, and they have to recognize that he feels like he isn't part of the team because of his role as the workhorse. He would like some opportunities to help his team other than guarding everyone. He is clearly one of the better defenders in the league, but you gotta reward your big guys for making defensive plays.


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> This is what i dont get. AK47 is played out of position and it is his fault? How the hell does that work?
> 
> He demands shots and he is a whiner. He doesn't put up numbers and he is a slacker. These arhunents would have merit except he performed like the old AK vs. Golden State and Eurobasket.


its not about numbers, its about team success. his team improved by getting better players, and instead of adapting to those players, hes worrying about HIS numbers. its not like he has to worry about payday, hes never going to get another contract as good as this. and if you're going to rip deron for going to the media, how do you not rip AK for doing the same (twice). like i said AK is a good player, but hes made it pretty clear to me he worries more about himself than he does his team.

if he were smart he'd ask to go to the 2nd unit where he could have more protagonism. or he could ask for a trade internally while working on his weakness'. instead, he went to the media, and that was before deron said anything. if AK hadnt asked for a trade, im pretty sure nobody would have even asked deron what was up with AK.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

I don't get what happened... Why is this thread turning into a "AK is a lazy-*** whiner that only cares about his numbers" instead of focuasing on Deron f'ing up?


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> This is what i dont get. AK47 is played out of position and it is his fault? How the hell does that work?
> 
> He demands shots and he is a whiner. He doesn't put up numbers and he is a slacker. These arhunents would have merit except he performed like the old AK vs. Golden State and Eurobasket.


So..he had a couple decent playoff games and a majority of horrible ones and played well against inferior competition in a tournament that is completely irrelevant to the NBA and that justifies his incessant whining and selfishness? What a silly and nonsensical argument. The bottom line is that Kirilenko is an extremely selfish malcontent unwilling to adapt and change his role for the betterment of his team. He is truly a joke of a professional. So what if he is more effective at power forward than small forward? Plenty of players play out of position and don't cry about it because they want to help their teams win. Kirilenko is not a good offensive player. He doesn't deserve to be entitled to shots, especially not with good offensive players like Boozer, Williams, and Okur on the team.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Didn't Sloan and the owner go to the media first about Ak47's production? You know like they tried to throw Boozer under the bus when he was injured.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> Didn't Sloan and the owner go to the media first about Ak47's production? You know like they tried to throw Boozer under the bus when he was injured.



Good point, this is the same owner who criticized Karl Malone in public over what i recall was contract issues. Maybe Deron just figured it's business as usual to do managements bidding, they love guys like that.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> Who cares about how seriously you take "being part of a union"? Professional athletes clearly don't, and have never had, and never will have your alleged attitude (because, frankly, the press doesn't give a **** what you think of your "fellow union members" rendering this a moot point). And how the hell could you have lived here from 1977-79 and _not_ remember that dysfunctional Celtics squad? Like in '77 when Wicks was loafing about on the court driving Cowens nutty? Have you forgot Dave's little AWOL episode when he took off in disgust that year, denouncing pretty much the entire team in the process?



I guess we'll just have to disagree.

I like your style though e, that whole "Baddest Honky Mofo Alive" thing is pretty cool, what are you like 50 years old now? I like the way you just blast people you dont agree with or i assume dont like. It's sort of New York City style but heck it plays in Beantown too.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

IceMan23and3 said:


> That's a great point. Even though he is earning MAX money, he is not being put in a position to help his team like he can. For a player of his abilities, he should be getting 10 shots a game at least. He has an ego, and they have to recognize that he feels like he isn't part of the team because of his role as the workhorse. He would like some opportunities to help his team other than guarding everyone. He is clearly one of the better defenders in the league, but you gotta reward your big guys for making defensive plays.


The problem is that he's a garbageman, and with Boozer Utah's need for that has been reduced. Offensively they want him to expand his game and rather than shutting his mouth and doing it he's pouting. Other max players adjust their games to changing circumstances. In Boston, with the additions of Allen and Garnett, Pierce has worked on dropping back down to 230 to improve his defensive quickness because the Celtics need him to take a larger defensive role. You don't see him complaining. He's thrilled to be on a winning team again and is working on adding to his game. That's the problem with AK-47 in a nutshell. His team's changed and he doesn't want to change with it. He's no longer the best player on a bad team. If he were quietly doing his job, there'd be no complaints. But he's very noisily not doing it. A change of scenery is obviously the best thing for him, but Utah is going to have troubles arranging it.


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

well i dont know what sloan/ownership might have said before, they're certainly not angels and have their quota of responsibility, but i still think ak is out of line... its not like they changed the coach, he knew what he was getting in to, they just added players and he hasnt shown the will or the ability to adapt to the IMPROVED reality of the team. if other gms thought AK was a franchise player the jazz would have dealt him already. no one in the nba is going to build a team around him. there are tons of players playing out of position or just filling a role. (the spurs are full of them, and they happen to be champs)

and again, if you want out the worst thing you can do is go to the media and say that. bug the hell out of your owner, call other gms yourself through your agent, but dont go out and say it to the media- it just makes it harder (especially if you have a bad contract), reflects badly on your professionalism, and burns bridges.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

rainman said:


> I like your style though e, that whole "Baddest Honky Mofo Alive" thing is pretty cool, what are you like 50 years old now? I like the way you just blast people you dont agree with or i assume dont like. It's sort of New York City style but heck it plays in Beantown too.


How many times have reporters asked you what you think of a particular fellow union member (that wasn't about to be indicted for a sex crime)? I'm betting it's never happened. Your union ethics just really aren't relevant within the context of the NBA or any other professional league. Athletes have been getting asked about fellow athletes since the beginning of professional sports here in the USA. If you're "not allowed to speak badly of fellow union members" doesn't that mean that every athlete that talks smack about a fellow athlete is violating the code? So apparently they (pro athletes) really don't care. Professional athletes have their own code which bears no relationship whatsoever to normal labour unions and their codes.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> How many times have reporters asked you what you think of a particular fellow union member (that wasn't about to be indicted for a sex crime)? I'm betting it's never happened. Your union ethics just really aren't relevant within the context of the NBA or any other professional league. Athletes have been getting asked about fellow athletes since the beginning of professional sports here in the USA. If you're "not allowed to speak badly of fellow union members" doesn't that mean that every athlete that talks smack about a fellow athlete is violating the code? So apparently they (pro athletes) really don't care. Professional athletes have their own code which bears no relationship whatsoever to normal labour unions and their codes.


Good point, thing is in Utah they like to air their dirty laundry in the press, starting with the owner. I just dont like 3rd year players calling out veterans. Without a doubt Kirilenko has not played up to his former standards and is therefore vastly overpaid, but let management take care of speaking up if they think necessary. I'll leave it at that and move on, i think everyone has stated their postion.


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## Ryoga (Aug 31, 2002)

I'll just say two things:
- Kirilenko's role in the team changed significantly over the last year. He's never been a go to guy but he's always been able to be an efficient scorer and a dangerous passer in the flow of the game. This year he became a jumpshooter, exposing that way his only real weakness and preventing him to showcase his strengths. Say what you want, but he was frozen out of the offence and doing that to your best defender is looking for trouble. He wasn't seeking shots but just touches.
- Utah should have found a solution for that, because w/out Kirilenko I'm expecting this team to disappoint. Williams and Boozer aren't Kobe and Shaq, you need some serious starting five to complete them and be successfull. Kirilenko is a super defender that can hide Boozer's and Okur's weaknesses while being very competent on offence, given the right system.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> I don't get what happened... Why is this thread turning into a "AK is a lazy-*** whiner that only cares about his numbers" instead of focuasing on Deron f'ing up?


i actually tend to agree.
now im actually a big fan of deron and ive never liked AK... but Williams really should have just kept his mouth shut until the jazz had decided what to do with Kirilenko
if anything come out and say how great hes looked in the off-season, save the hate for when hes on another team... if at all.
no need to drop someones value who is already looked at as well under achieving his contract so far


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## nguyen_milan (Jun 28, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> I don't get what happened... Why is this thread turning into a "AK is a lazy-*** whiner that only cares about his numbers" instead of focuasing on Deron f'ing up?


Because Deron is not Kobe ****ing Bean Bryant


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

ehmunro said:


> The problem is that he's a garbageman, and with Boozer Utah's need for that has been reduced. Offensively they want him to expand his game and rather than shutting his mouth and doing it he's pouting. Other max players adjust their games to changing circumstances. In Boston, with the additions of Allen and Garnett, Pierce has worked on dropping back down to 230 to improve his defensive quickness because the Celtics need him to take a larger defensive role. You don't see him complaining. He's thrilled to be on a winning team again and is working on adding to his game. That's the problem with AK-47 in a nutshell. His team's changed and he doesn't want to change with it. He's no longer the best player on a bad team. If he were quietly doing his job, there'd be no complaints. But he's very noisily not doing it. A change of scenery is obviously the best thing for him, but Utah is going to have troubles arranging it.


He's playing out of position, other players get plays called for them instead of him, and he's busting his *** but just not doing well. It's not his fault. He's a PF stuck playing quicker SFs, but he manages to play them well. Then he's the teams best defender. I don't care what he does or doesn't do on offense right now because it's not his fault if he doesn't score any points. Sloan has decided to go with different plays. He has decided to go with Boozer, Okur, and Williams to score the bulk of the points and the rest of the players to score their 5-10 points to win the game. Who was there to cover up Deron Williams' blown defensive assignment? I know, he got facialed on that but that was because Williams blew his assignment terribly! 

Here's Okur playing "defense" but luckily Kirilenko comes in to save the play:
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nXKtONQQVik"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nXKtONQQVik" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Kirilenko is their defense. He's the only legit DPOY candidate on their team. You reward guys that play big time defense with offensive plays. Maybe Utah should recognize that he is their defense. I don't care what Deron Williams says, or Boozer, or Okur, or anyone on the Jazz about Kirilenko's work ethic. The fact is he is the best one on the team on the defensive end. He takes 6 shots a game and makes 47% of them. In fact, he's made around that percentage his entire career. His TS% has hovered around 60% though. That's not a bad shooter. That's just a guy being isolated from the offense. Utah needs to wake up. When a max player says that he wants a larger role on the court, the coaching staff should respond.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I for one thought Okur did a pretty good job guarding Yao. The guy is a top 5 or 7 player in the league for a reason


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

HB said:


> I for one thought Okur did a pretty good job guarding Yao. The guy is a top 5 or 7 player in the league for a reason


lolz


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

IceMan23and3 said:


> He's playing out of position, other players get plays called for them instead of him, and he's busting his *** but just not doing well. It's not his fault. He's a PF stuck playing quicker SFs, but he manages to play them well. Then he's the teams best defender. I don't care what he does or doesn't do on offense right now because it's not his fault if he doesn't score any points.


You can't really run plays for Kirilenko, though. Not unless he really starts working on that aspect of his game. If he were doing the job defensively and not complaining no one would care, but he isn't.



IceMan23and3 said:


> Kirilenko is their defense. He's the only legit DPOY candidate on their team. You reward guys that play big time defense with offensive plays.


Should Chicago be running offensive plays for Ben Wallace? Should Denver be running offensive plays for Marcus Camby? Should Boston be running them for Kendrick Perkins?


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

ehmunro said:


> Should Chicago be running offensive plays for Ben Wallace? Should Denver be running offensive plays for Marcus Camby? Should Boston be running them for Kendrick Perkins?


 Kirilenko shoots a better percentage from the field than Wallace does from the FT line. Shouldn't Kirilenko get a lot more shots than Wallace? He should be getting around 10-12 FGA/game. That's not a ridiculous amount of shots. As for Denver, Camby gets around 10FGA/game. I would venture to say that Kirilenko is a better offensive player than Camby. Just by the mere fact that they play different positions.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Kirilenko shoots a better percentage from the field than Wallace does from the FT line. Shouldn't Kirilenko get a lot more shots than Wallace? He should be getting around 10-12 FGA/game. That's not a ridiculous amount of shots. As for Denver, Camby gets around 10FGA/game. I would venture to say that Kirilenko is a better offensive player than Camby. Just by the mere fact that they play different positions.


Kirilenko gets his points the same way that Camby does. Put backs, broken plays, hanging around the net. He's a garbageman. There's nothing wrong with that except that Carlos Boozer is a much better offensive player and is on the court most of the game when he's healthy. And he's a low post/garbageman, so one of them has to take a few steps further back from the hoop. And it's going to be AK-47. He either needs to accept this and adapt or Utah's going to end up dealing him (for whatever they can get). Frankly, given that Minnesota is committed to Jefferson who's a defensive disaster, the T'wolves may want to look at AK as a player that can hide that simple fact. Though his difficulty with touches will be similar there in that he'll be asked to move further from the rim.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

AK is a great defensive player. No one here will argue that. But he is hurt so often and is so one dimensional, seems like Utah could do without his contract and crying and still be fine. 

I personally think for the kind of cash AK is making, there is no reason he couldn't be in the gym putting in as much effort as goobers like Okur. I mean, maybe better conditioning and strength training might help him make through half a season without injuries. 

Might sound like I hate AK, trust me I'd take him in a second over the majority of Garbage on the Lakers. It is just sad when you see guys like him crying when they make all that money, miss tons a games each year, and don't put any effort into the off-season and try and blame coaching. Especially a coach as great as JS.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> AK is a great defensive player. No one here will argue that. But he is hurt so often and is so one dimensional, seems like Utah could do without his contract and crying and still be fine.
> 
> I personally think for the kind of cash AK is making, there is no reason he couldn't be in the gym putting in as much effort as goobers like Okur. I mean, maybe better conditioning and strength training might help him make through half a season without injuries.
> 
> Might sound like I hate AK, trust me I'd take him in a second over the majority of Garbage on the Lakers. It is just sad when you see guys like him crying when they make all that money, miss tons a games each year, and don't put any effort into the off-season and try and blame coaching. Especially a coach as great as JS.


He does make a lot of money. However, he was MVP Eurobasket and i am sure that took some effort. Also, IMO Sloan is not a great coach. He is a good coach. However, having 2 HOFers for such a long time and only getting to two finals is not the hallmark of greatness.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

Funny how you were showing that play from Kirilenko. Had Yao seen Battier over the corner, that's a sure-fire 3 he's going to knock down.

And for the record, I thought Okur's defense on Yao that entire series was about as good as anybody can ask for.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

unluckyseventeen said:


> Funny how you were showing that play from Kirilenko. Had Yao seen Battier over the corner, that's a sure-fire 3 he's going to knock down.
> 
> *And for the record, I thought Okur's defense on Yao that entire series was about as good as anybody can ask for*.


Agreed


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## Silent But Deadly (Aug 15, 2003)

I feel like everything that Deron said is justified, and by saying this, it proves that he's actually a team leader, even at such a young stage in his NBA career.

AK47 should take this as motivation to work for his spot more, not cry about it and boohoo all the way to another team.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> He does make a lot of money. However, he was MVP Eurobasket and i am sure that took some effort. Also, IMO Sloan is not a great coach. He is a good coach. However, having 2 HOFers for such a long time and only getting to two finals is not the hallmark of greatness.



Again, his defense is elite.

His injuries are also disturbing for that pay grade.

His conditioning is also suspect.

Seems you should at least do something in the NBA, before you make demands in the NBA. European basketball is a different animal than the NBA.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Silent But Deadly said:


> I feel like everything that Deron said is justified, and by saying this, it proves that he's actually a team leader, even at such a young stage in his NBA career.
> 
> AK47 should take this as motivation to work for his spot more, not cry about it and boohoo all the way to another team.


except for when he is playing along side AK this upcoming season because he isn't traded and realizes that $63 million IS a lot of money!


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## AlexeyBK (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm quite surprised with all that talks about AK's contract. The guy himself said he doesn't want to get that money for nothing. So, if Utah considers him to be a garbageman, all they have to do is to agree to rip his contract. After that, Andrey will be gone and Williams happy. The Jazz will be free to sign any player to fill AK in for a veteran's minimum. If they find one, of course.

The proposal made by Kirilenko is direct and fair. If his service doesn't cost that much (63M), the team is free to let him go. If Utah agrees to pay, then it should stop crying about the contract. Now it's up to Utah do decide. If they choose to keep him, they should shut up those money talks forever.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^How do you think AK's agent will feel about him walking away from 63 million?


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## AlexeyBK (Jun 29, 2006)

*HB*, it's none of my business. He may feel anyway he likes about that.  If both the team and the player make an agreement to part, agent won't do a thing.

Even if AK leaves Utah, he still will be looking for a job in NBA. That means the agent will be able to find him a new team and get some money for that. Financially, that will mean some salary drop both for the player and the agent, but nothing too serious. I think, AK will easily find a team for half a money Utah pays him now (for about 6-7 mln/year).

BTW, I think, the best way to handle the situation for everyone would be some sort of sign-and-trade. Andrey could amend his contract, take a salary cut along with a trade. That would allow the Jazz to get something valuable in return and him to find a new team. The new club would get a decent player for reasonable money (the price is a subject to be discussed). 

PS. Williams is a punk. All he did in the league now is one decent season. And now he starts to make that kind of statements in the press. That's sick. He's just a promising young guy with a huge ego, noone else yet.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

AlexeyBK said:


> I'm quite surprised with all that talks about AK's contract. The guy himself said he doesn't want to get that money for nothing. So, if Utah considers him to be a garbageman, all they have to do is to agree to rip his contract. After that, Andrey will be gone and Williams happy. The Jazz will be free to sign any player to fill AK in for a veteran's minimum. If they find one, of course.
> 
> The proposal made by Kirilenko is direct and fair. If his service doesn't cost that much (63M), the team is free to let him go. If Utah agrees to pay, then it should stop crying about the contract. Now it's up to Utah do decide. If they choose to keep him, they should shut up those money talks forever.


That also hurts Utah in the way that they can't get a decent value in return in form of a trade. That's just like giving up without even trying.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad option, but I'm sure they want to see what they can get for him as a first priority.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Camby actually does get a fair share of plays ran for him (which usually amounts to an elbow jumper) but that works to the detriment of the offense. I see the same thing with Kirilenko. I'd rather him pass than try to score. I'm not sure where this idea of him being a good scorer came from. He isn't much of a shooter, isn't strong, and can't break decent defenders down off the dribble. He's a multi-tool player that can have a huge impact on defense while helping a little of offense. Should he get shots over Williams, Boozer? Okur? Even Harping? I say no. Play D, stay out of the way on offense, and stop whining. You really aren't that good.


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## Lebbron (Nov 20, 2005)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Camby actually does get a fair share of plays ran for him (which usually amounts to an elbow jumper) but that works to the detriment of the offense. I see the same thing with Kirilenko. I'd rather him pass than try to score. I'm not sure where this idea of him being a good scorer came from. He isn't much of a shooter, isn't strong, and can't break decent defenders down off the dribble. He's a multi-tool player that can have a huge impact on defense while helping a little of offense. Should he get shots over Williams, Boozer? Okur? Even Harping? I say no. Play D, stay out of the way on offense, and stop whining. You really aren't that good.


Honestly I don't think he really meant more shots he wants more touches. He is a good passer and should be used in a diaw-like role on offense, as a shortstop or middle man to get good angles and set up easy baskets. If they can't find a way to use his strengths and keep him interested, they should let him go or trade him no use keeping him in limbo like this.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Lebbron said:


> Honestly I don't think he really meant more shots he wants more touches. He is a good passer and should be used in a diaw-like role on offense, as a shortstop or middle man to get good angles and set up easy baskets. If they can't find a way to use his strengths and keep him interested, they should let him go or trade him no use keeping him in limbo like this.


Keeping him in limbo? Dude sucked last year. And what has he done to warrant these demands on offense? Williams does just fine setting the offense up himself. What the Jazz need is a legitimate threat from the wing, not a wannabe playmaker. I wouldn't give Kirilenko more touches: it could translate to more shots, which isn't worth the risk. 

People continue to overrate this guy and I don't know why. In my eyes, he's barely a third option in the league. Good passer, good all-around skills. Offensive threat? Meh.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I agree with Rodney on AK47's offense or lack of


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## AlexeyBK (Jun 29, 2006)

unluckyseventeen said:


> Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad option, but I'm sure they want to see what they can get for him as a first priority.


Sure, that's what they're gonna do. For the team, it's way much better to trade AK for some value than just loose him. I could even imagine a situation when Utah would start the season with AK, give him minutes and touches in starting games, let him prove himself in the league again and raise his trading value. If he could do that (play consistently, stay motivated and gain numbers) and agree to a salary cut, the tarde wouldn't be a hard thing to arrange.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

AlexeyBK said:


> Sure, that's what they're gonna do. For the team, it's way much better to trade AK for some value than just loose him. I could even imagine a situation when Utah would start the season with AK, give him minutes and touches in starting games, let him prove himself in the league again and raise his trading value. If he could do that (play consistently, stay motivated and gain numbers) and agree to a salary cut, the tarde wouldn't be a hard thing to arrange.


That's a lot of IFs. Sloan isn't going to give him more touches because Williams already said that he doesn't want to pass to AK. The league already knows how good he is but is just stuck as the 4th option in a two man system. Offense begets defense. Most players don't play as well when they don't have offense going. It's a confidence thing. Kirilenko is no different. He's also only 25 meaning that he may have a solid 10 years in this league left to play. I think many teams would take a gamble on him seeing as he has a lot of career left and it's only a few seasons of contract that he has left. Three seasons is a perfect amount to test whether he is a legitamate star or not.


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