# Not trying to troll but...



## meltinjohn (Jun 6, 2006)

The cavs show tonight why they had such an easy ride to the finals. Cavs only played one tougher team to get there with 2 series of rest with a declining nets team and the wizards who suck in the playoffs. Cavs now have the celtics in their mix with Chicago and Detroit. They are done along with Miami imo. 
Cleveland Indians also are long done. I feel sorry Cleveland has to be such a sorry sports city. No offense.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

1. Preseason
2. Preseason
3. Preseason

Cavs are just going through the motions right now, because the games don't matter right now. All of the important games are still 82 games away.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

meltinjohn said:


> The cavs show tonight why they had such an easy ride to the finals. Cavs only played one tougher team to get there with 2 series of rest with a declining nets team and the wizards who suck in the playoffs. Cavs now have the celtics in their mix with Chicago and Detroit. They are done along with Miami imo.
> Cleveland Indians also are long done. I feel sorry Cleveland has to be such a sorry sports city. No offense.


This is trolling no matter how you spin it.

Preseason results mean nothing btw - with the season right around the corner might as well wait to see how the Cavs fare in actual games before proclaiming who the best teams in the East are.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

meltinjohn said:


> The cavs show tonight why they had such an easy ride to the finals. Cavs only played one tougher team to get there with 2 series of rest with a declining nets team and the wizards who suck in the playoffs. Cavs now have the celtics in their mix with Chicago and Detroit. They are done along with Miami imo.
> *Cleveland Indians also are long done*. I feel sorry Cleveland has to be such a sorry sports city. No offense.


Ya, having everyone locked up for the next season and Nixon being your only free agent would make me think their also done. 

goon get off this site!


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

LOL at the Larry Hughes for Retirement moniker 

As to the subject at hand, I've made clear I think there's a real danger the Cavs don't meet expectations this year, but I look at their team and don't see any immediate answers either.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Yeah, Cavs will probably suck this year. They might even miss the playoffs. Being the only team to not retain their players when the majority of the rest of the conference got better has disaster written all over it.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think it's hilarious how people suddenly rate Verejao and Pavlovic. Most people on this board up until he was a free agent called AV little more than a Brazilian Mark Madsen. And none of them really knew Pavlovic even played.

Now all of a sudden they are the diffrence between the Cavs making the playoffs or not.

Please.

The difference between the Cavs being a lottery team and not is one man: Lebron James.

If he gets injured the Cavs will be in the lottery. WITH expiring contracts to play with next season.

So if we have to suck it up a little bit this year, it will be part of the hardships towards greater things.


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## UrFavTeamSux (Jan 17, 2007)

Also, I don't understand why all of a sudden the East is really _that_ much harder. Detroit, really? You mean now that they're aging and starting to crumble they're suddenly more of a threat than last year? Also: News Flash! Chicago is still young and inexperienced, maybe if you guys picked up Garnett I'd be afraid but you aren't that much different this year. Miami is done, and of course the Celtics look good this year.

But guess what, all we had last year is LeBron, and I'm pretty sure we still have him. And as long as we have LeBron, I won't call it for the year, regardless of how bad the rest of the team is.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> I think it's hilarious how people suddenly rate Verejao and Pavlovic. Most people on this board up until he was a free agent called AV little more than a Brazilian Mark Madsen. And none of them really knew Pavlovic even played.


I don't see what's so hilarious about the way people look at those 2 players. Many people followed the Cavs's run to the finals last year and those 2 players were key components of their success. It wasn't like the Cavs team last year had a supporting cast filled with playoff performers so it wasn't that hard to spot the ones that came to play, or actually played.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

UrFavTeamSux said:


> Also, I don't understand why all of a sudden the East is really _that_ much harder. Detroit, really? You mean now that they're aging and starting to crumble they're suddenly more of a threat than last year? Also: News Flash! Chicago is still young and inexperienced, maybe if you guys picked up Garnett I'd be afraid but you aren't that much different this year. Miami is done, and of course the Celtics look good this year.
> 
> But guess what, all we had last year is LeBron, and I'm pretty sure we still have him. And as long as we have LeBron, I won't call it for the year, regardless of how bad the rest of the team is.


Chicago addressed their frontcourt problems with Aaron Gray and Joe Smith. Tyrus Thomas will be able to stay in the rotation this year, Nocioni is healthy, and Hinrich/Gordon/Deng should all improve a bit more. 

Celtics obviously got better.

Magic added Lewis, and then Howard should be improved.

Toronto has young guys, Bargnani should improve. 

Knicks added Zach Randolph. 

Bobcats added Jason Richardson, potential for a healthy Okafor season. Hawks added Horford/Law, Johnson could be healthy all year.

Nets getting back a healthy Jefferson/Krstic.

Obviously injuries could derail a lot of this, but this doesn't necessarily put these teams over the Cavs, just making it harder to get victories against these teams.

Personally, I had for the East:

1. Chicago Bulls
2. Cleveland Cavs
3. Boston Celtics
4. Orlando Magic
5. Toronto Raptors
6. Detroit Pistons
7. New Jersey Nets
8. Miami Heat
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9. Washington Wizards
10. Charlotte Bobcats
11. NY Knicks
12. Milwaukee Bucks
13. Atlanta Hawks
14. Philadelphia 76ers
15. Indiana Pacers

of course, I made these predictions around September 18th I think, with the assumption Varejao and Pavlovic would be resigned.

After further recollection, I'd rank them:

1. Chicago Bulls
2. Boston Celtics
3. Toronto Raptors
4. Orlando Magic
5. New Jersey Nets
6. Detroit Pistons
7. Cleveland Cavs
8. Atlanta Hawks
-------------------
9. Washington Wizards
10. Miami Heat
11. New York Knicks
12. Milwaukee Bucks
13. Charlotte Bocats
14. Indiana Pacers
15. Philadelphia 76ers

But if Cavs resign Varejao/Pavlovic in the middle of the season....I think it won't be enough for them to get favorable seeding, but I could see them knocking out the Celts in the first round.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Gibson has barely played this preseason. The Cavs won't be as bad in the regular season as they were in the preseason. This Cavs teams remember wasn't all that good last regular season because we were playing guys like Snow and Wesley big minutes. IF healthy just with Gibson that should be a big improvement and Lebron will be better then last season. So basically with AV/Sasha out we'll probably be about the same as last year. Around a 50 win team.

Next year the Cavs have Snow's, Marshall's, Jones, Gooden, Z's become expiring deals (that's TONS of money, even Hughes only will have two years left): the long term future of this team is still bright even if the team doesn't reach the Finals. It's not going to be stuck in a perpetual state of mediocrity with bad contracts


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I think its interesting the way Cavs fans try and play it off like there is no cause for concern. Granted you have arguably the best player in the East on your team, but look around the East, every team has retooled in one shape or the other. The Cavs on the other hand have regressed. If I were a Cavs fan, I'd be worried that this team might not make the playoffs. You need wins to get into the playoffs, I can almost guarantee that wont be the case this year. Not trying to hate, but the bench is truly pathetic. Hughes is a joke of player, still no pure passing point, Z and Gooden are a solid frontcourt, but they have no backups now that AV and Pav have decided to take a year off. Of course this is just for this year though. 

The next year with all those contracts gone, and a pretty impressive FA crop, the Cavs could be right back in Elite status easily


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn.


I suppose we'll just wait and see how it all plays out. It's only a few more days to start the season, no?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn.
> 
> 
> I suppose we'll just wait and see how it all plays out. It's only a few more days to start the season, no?


:laugh: and this is the typical response I expected or have been seeing from Cavs fans. I do like the confidence though, its entertaining.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

HB said:


> I think its interesting the way Cavs fans try and play it off like there is no cause for concern. Granted you have arguably the best player in the East on your team, but look around the East, every team has retooled in one shape or the other. The Cavs on the other hand have regressed. If I were a Cavs fan, I'd be worried that this team might not make the playoffs. You need wins to get into the playoffs, I can almost guarantee that wont be the case this year. Not trying to hate, but the bench is truly pathetic. Hughes is a joke of player, still no pure passing point, Z and Gooden are a solid frontcourt, but they have no backups now that AV and Pav have decided to take a year off. Of course this is just for this year though.
> 
> The next year with all those contracts gone, and a pretty impressive FA crop, the Cavs could be right back in Elite status easily



Cavs fans are just use to people disrespecting their team and talking about how they can't do this, or can't do that. It's hardly the first regular season in memory when nobody gave this team a chance. We got to the Finals last year, and it was the first time in franchise history. I think the Cavs are entitled to a little cynicism when it comes to criticism of their team.

Fact of the matter is, that we'll be going a season with Gibson at the point instead of Snow, that's a huge upgrade. With AV out, Gooden is going to get more consistent playing time, and that can only be a good thing. Lebron looks like he's gotten even better, and seems intent on playing this season like he means it, instead of cruising through like last year.

That and the consistency of the defensive system which is one of the best in the NBA, and you have what you had last year and the year before that, a 50 win team.

Most of the Eastern conference upgrades have been cosmetic, and didn't address the problems of those teams.

The Knicks got Randolph. How does that address their interior defense? The Magic got Rashard Lewis, how does that change them from being an outside-inside jumpshooting happy team? Toronto still plays the same way. The Pistons still play the same way. The Bulls still don't have any interior scoring. Miami is still built around an old and crumbling foundation, with a superstar who has turned a bit injury prone.

The only teams that changed their dynamic are the Celtics and the Nets. The Nets finally have centers. And the Celtics finally have effective post player to play off of, and possibly some measure of interior defense.

The Cavs have two weaknesses, point guard play, and they can't shoot. Lebron has gotten better at shooting, and Gibson can shoot, and is a huge upgrade at point over Snow. So they have changed a little bit their dynamic.

And if they are running Lebron through the post more, that will upgrade further the offense.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^Depth Depth Depth is what I am stressing. Injuries are a part of the game. The more quality players you have on the bench, the better off the team is


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I mean how can you really judge the Cavs in preseason, when Lebron's minutes are so low, and he's just playing to get a workout and not get hurt? The whole team dynamic is built around him. So if he's not playing that much, of course the deficiencies in the rest of the roster are going to look more glaring.

I do expect the Cavs to get off to a slow start to the season though, because I suspect that preseason has added a little bit of rust to a few players games, not the least of which is Lebron.

But I suspect we'll be rounding into form entering the xmas break, about where we want to be in the standings.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I am not judging them on preseason games at all. I am projecting what I see when I look at the roster. Gibson is not a passing point by the way, isnt that what the Cavs need more than anything else. Someone who allows Bron to roam and playoff the ball more


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

HB said:


> I think its interesting the way Cavs fans try and play it off like there is no cause for concern. Granted you have arguably the best player in the East on your team, but look around the East, every team has retooled in one shape or the other. The Cavs on the other hand have regressed. If I were a Cavs fan, I'd be worried that this team might not make the playoffs. You need wins to get into the playoffs, I can almost guarantee that wont be the case this year. Not trying to hate, but the bench is truly pathetic. Hughes is a joke of player, still no pure passing point, Z and Gooden are a solid frontcourt, but they have no backups now that AV and Pav have decided to take a year off. Of course this is just for this year though.
> 
> The next year with all those contracts gone, and a pretty impressive FA crop, the Cavs could be right back in Elite status easily


Look after last season most Cavs realized we had a decent team but weren't at the level of the Spurs. For a variety of reasons we knew going into this offseason that we didn't have of lot of assets to improve. So instead of hoping for cosmetic moves I'm certainly ok treading water till next year where we can really add some nice pieces. Treading water last year bascially got us to the Finals after all and if Lebron is hot all bets are off. I'm certainly glad we're not going the Twolves route and stacking the roster with lots of money for mediocre talent to put around a terrific player and handicapping the future.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> Look after last season most Cavs realized we had a decent team but weren't at the level of the Spurs. For a variety of reasons we knew going into this offseason that we didn't have of lot of assets to improve. So instead of hoping for cosmetic moves I'm certainly ok treading water till next year where we can really add some nice pieces. Treading water last year bascially got us to the Finals after all and if Lebron is hot all bets are off. I'm certainly glad we're not going the Twolves route and stacking the roster with lots of money for mediocre talent to put around a terrific player and handicapping the future.


I agree and thats why I said for this year only. Hopefully Bron sees this too and doesnt get ticked off by the inactivity. Ferry is gearing the team for a good 08 offseason


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

HB said:


> I am not judging them on preseason games at all. I am projecting what I see when I look at the roster. Gibson is not a passing point by the way, isnt that what the Cavs need more than anything else. Someone who allows Bron to roam and playoff the ball more


You realize we won 50 games last year starting Eric Snow and playing Wesley with a hurt Hughes? We'll struggle early because of a tough schedule but I expect this team to be around 50 gmaes just like last year.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> You realize we won 50 games last year starting Eric Snow and playing Wesley with a hurt Hughes? We'll struggle early because of a tough schedule but I expect this team to be around 50 gmaes just like last year.


The East was weaker last year. The teams you dominated easily, arent going to be that easy to walk over this year. Bron can only do so much alone


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

HB said:


> The East was weaker last year. The teams you dominated easily, arent going to be that easy to walk over this year. Bron can only do so much alone



Yeah and Lebron coasted last year. This year he looks like he's improved his skills, and he will certainly be more determined knowing that he needs to carry the load for the team to achieve. I still suspect he will go down with a major injury and that will end the Cavs hopes. But if he doesn't this could be the best season of his career to date. Which should scare the rest of the east. The Cavs ran through the playoffs last season on his back, and he wasn't even shooting well, or really varying his offensive attack. The Cavs won on the basis of defense and Lebron James refusing to be denied at the rim. Aside from KG who has come to the East that can change that?

Can the Cavs still defend without AV and Sasha? YES. Can Lebron still get to the paint? YES.

What more is there to analyze?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

The problem is that the Cavs didn't tread water. They lost Varejao and Pavlovic.

In the two games in which Lebron played 35 minutes, the Cavs got slaughtered. Lebron had some tendinitis of the knee problems last year. If he has to be playing 44 MPG for the Cavs to tread water, his knees are going to take a beating.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Bron will get his, what else is new.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Mebarak said:


> Chicago addressed their frontcourt problems with Aaron Gray and Joe Smith. Tyrus Thomas will be able to stay in the rotation this year, Nocioni is healthy, and Hinrich/Gordon/Deng should all improve a bit more.
> 
> Celtics obviously got better.
> 
> ...



How does losing AV and Sasha make Miami worse?

I dont quite understand your power rankings but oh well. 

I think Devin Brown can come in and do with Sasha did, Sasha was nothing until the last 25 games of the regular season or so. 

And if by your standards every gets better every year, is this correct? So Larry Hughes could be even better, 17-6-5 guy ?

I will agree having Marshall playing more is not a great thing for the Cavaliers


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Many threads like this need to be bookmarked. Period. Many posters (new and old) who had nothing to do with the Cavs forum are now suddenly pouring in to say the Cavs suck (check other b-ball forums around the web, this is the vogue thing to do). Only one of two things can happen: the trolls will be made geniuses in a season's time or much like in the past, they vanish into the sideways shadows from which they came. History awaits. For all the talk, I'm ready for the season to start. One way or the other, I'd like to see an end to this. Each year it gets worse for the Cleveland faithful, that's for sure.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> Look after last season most Cavs realized we had a decent team but weren't at the level of the Spurs. For a variety of reasons we knew going into this offseason that we didn't have of lot of assets to improve. So instead of hoping for cosmetic moves I'm certainly ok treading water till next year where we can really add some nice pieces. Treading water last year bascially got us to the Finals after all and if Lebron is hot all bets are off. I'm certainly glad we're not going the Twolves route and stacking the roster with lots of money for mediocre talent to put around a terrific player and handicapping the future.


Going the TWolves route now and getting rid of a couple guys for shorter contracts and/or getting some draft picks wouldn't hurt if the target is a big free agency take down the road. If they could figure out how to trade Hughes for a guy with a year less on his deal it sure wouldn't kill them


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## UrFavTeamSux (Jan 17, 2007)

You know what would be really cool? If Larry Hughes didn't suck to the max this year.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

pavlovic is a *****. he's useless if his jumper's not falling. devin brown can fill in for him

varejao not being around, on the other hand, really hurts the defense and rebounding imo

in any case i hate to call out a fellow celtic fan not named p-dub but the cavs are still among the top 5 in the conference at the very least and the indians are going to be damn good for a while...


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

A good troll is hard to find in nowadays so he is at least not some one liner troll then we should welcome his arrival.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

Larry Hughes for Retirement said:


> Ya, having everyone locked up for the next season and Nixon being your only free agent would make me think their also done.
> 
> goon get off this site!


Thats not entirely true.

FREE AGENTS: *OF Kenny Lofton*, INF Chris Gomez, OF Trot Nixon, RHP Paul Byrd, *RHP Joe Borowski,** LHP Aaron Fultz*, RHP Scott Elarton, INF Luis Rivas.

The Indians hold an* $8 million option for Byrd, *a $4 million option on Borowski and a $1.5 million option on Fultz. The team likely will pick up the options of Byrd and Borowski, with a lesser chance of them retaining Fultz. They may at least make token efforts to retain Nixon and Gomez but seem unlikely to re-sign Lofton.

ARBITRATION-ELIGIBLE: *RHP Rafael Betancourt*, *3B Casey Blake*.

The Indians will likely explore multiyear deals with both players.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Cmon.

From what I recall, the Cavs were an inconsistent team until mid last year when Sasha started getting minutes and became a scoring option and while both Andy and Sasha are nuts for demanding that type of cash, look at it from their view. Sasha must be thinking, Hey, I was more important then Hughes, Snow, Gibson last year and two of those guys make more money then me and Andy must be thinking that he's just as good as Gooden and Z and he wants his. 

Cavs fans may not care about Andy but having my team play them in the playoffs and seeing what a difference he made, I sure as hell am glad he's not back.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Jizzy said:


> Cmon.
> 
> From what I recall, the Cavs were an inconsistent team until mid last year when Sasha started getting minutes and became a scoring option and while both Andy and Sasha are nuts for demanding that type of cash, look at it from their view. Sasha must be thinking, Hey, I was more important then Hughes, Snow, Gibson last year and two of those guys make more money then me and Andy must be thinking that he's just as good as Gooden and Z and he wants his.
> 
> Cavs fans may not care about Andy but having my team play them in the playoffs and seeing what a difference he made, I sure as hell am glad he's not back.


Actually the team turned around when Snow was benched in favor of Gibson, and then when Gibson got injured, Larry Hughes was moved to point guard. We could have easily, and we did at times, put Gibson in there instead of Pavlovic. Sasha is kidding himself if he thinks he's better than Boobie. Where was Sasha in the playoffs? Shooting below 40 percent from the field, that's where.

Sasha is soooooo easy to replace. All the Cavs have to do is play Gibson there and they are fine.

Andy is a loss. But explain to me why he deserves to be paid twice what Drew Gooden makes, when Drew starts over him? How is that going to work in the locker room, and when Drew comes up for his next contract, he's going to see that holding out and hurting the team is the way to get his money.

I think if we don't have Andy, we should play our small unit a little more. Play Lebron at the four a little bit extra.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Actually the team turned around when Snow was benched in favor of Gibson, and then when Gibson got injured, Larry Hughes was moved to point guard. We could have easily, and we did at times, put Gibson in there instead of Pavlovic. Sasha is kidding himself if he thinks he's better than Boobie. Where was Sasha in the playoffs? Shooting below 40 percent from the field, that's where.
> 
> Sasha is soooooo easy to replace. All the Cavs have to do is play Gibson there and they are fine.
> 
> ...


If we had a creative coach this might be an oppurtunity to go small ball and surprise people by playing fast. This is Mike Brown though we're talking about so it might take him half a season to figure that out


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

Meltinjohn is just an emotional wreck and takes satisfaction in bad things that happen to other teams.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

RoyWilliams said:


> Thats not entirely true.
> 
> FREE AGENTS: *OF Kenny Lofton*, INF Chris Gomez, OF Trot Nixon, RHP Paul Byrd, *RHP Joe Borowski,** LHP Aaron Fultz*, RHP Scott Elarton, INF Luis Rivas.
> 
> ...


Where did you copy and paste that one from, Fultz did not contribute anything to the team after Perez arrived. And Scott Elarton did not pitch one pitch for us in the majors. Luis Rivas didn't play in the first 175 games for the Tribe, so please, we only are set to lose Nixon as a unrestricted free agent who was there starting on opening day. 

I expected better of you Roy!


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## Morongk22 (Jan 11, 2006)

HB said:


> ^Depth Depth Depth is what I am stressing. Injuries are a part of the game. The more quality players you have on the bench, the better off the team is


Please show me the depth on that celts roster...scalabrine/pollard, really able to back up garnett/perkins. Who is backing up Chancey/Rip....Flip Murray and ?. Talk about depth all you want but the Celtics and Pistons are thin also. 

When you look at Cleveland's starting roster and key bench before last season it didnt look that great, but they won 50 and the east.

Snow/Hughes/Bron/Gooden/Z

bench

D Jones/Varajeo/Gibson(R)/Pavolovic/Marshall

Marshall, Jones...struggle if 3's dont fall. 

No one knew Gibson or Pavs and Varajeo was just some guy that flops and gets rebounds.

Pre-season means nothing....heck first 2 months won't decide the season either. Come back in April!


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