# Orlando Magic @ Indiana Pacers Game Thread



## hobojoe

Saturday November 20, 2004
Orlando Magic at Indiana Pacers, 8 p.m. ET









Orlando Magic
Coached by: Johnny Davis 

Projected Starting Lineup:




































S. Francis  | D. Stevenson  | Grant Hill  | D. Howard  | K. Cato 

Key Reserves:






















T. Battie  | H. Turkoglu | P. Garrity 












Indiana Pacers
Coached by: Rick Carlisle  

Projected Starting Lineup:




































J. Tinsley | S. Jackson | R. Artest | A. Croshere | J. O’Neal

Key Reserves:






















F. Jones | S. Pollard | J. Bender 



Key Matchup:
Battle of the Small Forwards-















Grant Hill vs. Ron Artest


Grant Hill gets to play one of the best defenders in the league yet again tomorrow, for the second straight game. He passed his first test agains Kirilenko with flying colors, what's he going to do against the reigning Defensive player of the year?


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## JNice

Another tough one. We have yet to really figure things out on the road. I think it comes down to our fastbreaking style and the momentum our home crowd gives it.

I think Artest knows about Hill and how well he is doing and is going to come out strong. I'd like to see Hill take it right at Artest immediately and see if he can get him in foul trouble. If we can get Artest off the court a lot of the game, we've got a shot to win it.

And I think Cato is a good matchup against Oneal and should be able to do a decent job on him.

Francis should be able to light up Tinsley.

I think Orlando pulls off an impressive road win - 95-90.


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## hobojoe

Wow, following what happened in Detroit last night, I don't know what to expect from the Pacers tonight in Indiana. Maybe this is the perfect chance for the Magic to steal a game in Indiana.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Wow, following what happened in Detroit last night, I don't know what to expect from the Pacers tonight in Indiana. Maybe this is the perfect chance for the Magic to steal a game in Indiana.


Seriously. I wonder if the league will hold any of the players out of this game. 

If they held out Artest, Oneal, and Jackson .. that'd be pretty sweet for us. :laugh:


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> Seriously. I wonder if the league will hold any of the players out of this game.
> 
> If they held out Artest, Oneal, and Jackson .. that'd be pretty sweet for us. :laugh:


I think that's highly, highly unlikely. Actually, I don't think anyone will be held out of games for a long time. It's going to take some time for the NBA to review everything that happened, determine the appropriate punishments for everyone and then for the players association probably to file a grievance if the suspensions are lengthy, it'll be appealed, they'll claim self-defense and so on and so forth. I don't see anyone sitting out games for at least a week or two.


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## hobojoe

NBA.com's Preview of Tonight's Game 

INDIANAPOLIS (Ticker) -- The Indiana Pacers return home after a wild night in Detroit and look to extend their winning streak to four in a row when they take on the Orlando Magic on Saturday. 

The Pacers posted a 97-82 victory over the Pistons in a game that was called with 45 seconds to play. 

In one of the craziest melees in NBA history, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal all landed haymakers on unruly Pistons fans, who showed the worst side of their behavior by throwing everything from plastic bottles to chairs at members of the Pacers, who fought back - literally. 

Artest led the way for the Pacers with 24 points and O'Neal scored 20. 

The Magic are looking to duplicate their home success on the road but have had little success doing so thus far. Steve Francis scored 33 points and Hill added a season-high 32 as the Magic pulled away for a 107-92 victory over the Utah Jazz on Wednesday to remain perfect at home. 

Francis and Hill made a combined 24-of-34 shots, including 7-of-8 in the final period to seal the win. The tandem has averaged a combined 50.8 points per game at the TD Waterhouse Centre, leading Orlando to its first 4-0 home start since the 1998-99 season, when it won its first 10. 

Orlando has lost three road games in a row after knocking off New Orleans, 90-89, on November 5.


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## Captain Obvious

Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson along with Wallace are suspended indefinitely. New projected Indiana lineup :

PG- Tinsley
SG- Jones
SF- Croshere
PF- Pollard
C- Harrison


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson along with Wallace are suspended indefinitely. New projected Indiana lineup :
> 
> PG- Tinsley
> SG- Jones
> SF- Croshere
> PF- Pollard
> C- Harrison


:laugh: 

Dude, they are only going to have like two guys off the bench. Eddie Gill and John Edwards ..  

That is crazy.

We better be careful though, because even though the team they put out there will be crap and they'll have no one off the bench, that building is gonna be charged up bigtime. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see them hang with us for half or so of the game then we run away with it.


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## hobojoe

Yes! The reverse-jinxing works again to the Magic's favor! The second I said I doubted they would be suspended this soon was the second David Stern decided to suspend them already. :grinning: 

But in all seriousness, we can't let this game get away from us. The team Indiana's going to field is still almost as good as the Bobcats, and we all know how that went... By the way Captain Obvious, Pollard is injured, he won't play.


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## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> Dude, they are only going to have like two guys off the bench. Eddie Gill and John Edwards ..
> 
> That is crazy.
> 
> We better be careful though, because even though the team they put out there will be crap and they'll have no one off the bench, that building is gonna be charged up bigtime.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised to see them hang with us for half or so of the game then we run away with it.


That team is probably still better than the Bobcats, and we all know what happened in that game :shy:.


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## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> But in all seriousness, we can't let this game get away from us. The team Indiana's going to field is still almost as good as the Bobcats, and we all know how that went... By the way Captain Obvious, Pollard is injured, he won't play.


You beat me to it. I forgot Pollard was injured too. Can they even field a team?


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> 
> You beat me to it. I forgot Pollard was injured too. Can they even field a team?


I counted 7 active players who aren't injured.


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## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> I counted 7 active players who aren't injured.


It says that Pollard is questionable, so that might make 8. For us Mobley is still questionable. Considering the recent developments it may be best to keep Mobley out of this one.


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## byrondarnell66

Remember the Grizzlies and Wizzards game when the Wizzards suited only 8 players "2 starters and 6 scrubs" and beat a overhyped Grizzlies team by 10+ on the road. dont get too confident


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> 
> It says that Pollard is questionable, so that might make 8. For us Mobley is still questionable. Considering the recent developments it may be best to keep Mobley out of this one.


I'd imagine Pollard suits up just so the Pacers can play this one, regardless of whether he can play or not. He can just sit on the bench for Indiana, as long as he's in uniform the Pacers can play the game.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> I'd imagine Pollard suits up just so the Pacers can play this one, regardless of whether he can play or not. He can just sit on the bench for Indiana, as long as he's in uniform the Pacers can play the game.


What is the minimum? Is it 8?


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## Brian34Cook

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> What is the minimum? Is it 8?


Yeah.. Here's the projected Pacers lineup.. 

PG: Eddie Gill
SG: Fred Jones
SF: James Jones
PF: Austin Croshere (Also hurt his back)
C: David Harrison
6th Man: John Edwards

Will Suit up: Scott Pollard
Will Suit up: Jamaal Tinsley

Tinsley also got hurt last night.. I think he suits up.. 

All I know is thats a cool lookin lineup.. They may score 50 if that :laugh:


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Brian34Cook</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah.. Here's the projected Pacers lineup..
> 
> PG: Eddie Gill
> SG: Fred Jones
> SF: James Jones
> PF: Austin Croshere (Also hurt his back)
> C: David Harrison
> 6th Man: John Edwards
> 
> Will Suit up: Scott Pollard
> Will Suit up: Jamaal Tinsley
> 
> Tinsley also got hurt last night.. I think he suits up..
> 
> All I know is thats a cool lookin lineup.. They may score 50 if that :laugh:


This is going to be a very, very strange game. I wonder how both teams will come out. Orlando needs to forget about everything and pretend this is the normal Indiana team and go out hard.

If they are smart, they'll run the pants off Indiana early in the game and tire them out. None of those guys is used to playing a 40 minute game.


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## JNice

Ouch, they've only got one guy on the bench.


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## JNice

We should win this by 15 or 20 pts.


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## JNice

What the hell happens if Indiana fouls two guys out? I assume a forfeit? That would be strange.


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## hobojoe

Magic with yet another sluggish start. They have one guy off the bench, we have to get them tired and in foul trouble.


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## hobojoe

Howard with a nice move in transition, spin move results in a dunk for Dwight. He also has 5 rebounds already, Magic are now up 14-12.


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## hobojoe

26-20 Magic after one quarter.

Great first quarter for Hill. Nice pass from Turkoglu to Kasun towards the end there for the easy layup. 3 Points and 6 boards for Howard. Good to see Garrity knock down his first 3-point attempt. Nice crossover and jumper by Nelson to end the quarter. All in all, another sluggish start, but a nice finish. I'm not at all worried about this game.


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## JNice

Johnny is keeping Dwight on the bench too much. 

Francis needs to wake up.


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## JNice

Grant Hill looking physically better every game. He is really moving well tonight. He is the one guy who is obviously not taking this game lightly.

I don't think Dwight has a foul yet. This could be a game where he gets a lot of minutes.


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## JNice

Howard might get his 10 boards in the first half again. 8 already.


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## LBJthefuturegoat

This game is closer than I expected. I think the Magic will run away in the 2nd half though


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>LBJthefuturegoat</b>!
> This game is closer than I expected. I think the Magic will run away in the 2nd half though


Yeah. Some of the Magic players aren't really into the game. But the Pacers players are starting to get tired, especially David Harrison who has been their best player so far. By the time the 4th quarter rolls around, he'll probably be dead tired.


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## hobojoe

Orlando finally getting their act together, a nice jumper by Hedo, a couple amazing assists from Francis to Cato, and now we're up 8 points, 41-33. 5 and 8 for Howard on 2-2 shooting, and he also has a block.


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## JNice

I'm sorry, but if Hill stays healthy, he is an All-Star. 

He just keeps looking better.


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## JNice

This game should be over by the end of the 3rd quarter. If not, then our guys didn't come to play tonight.


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## JNice

Somebody get David Harrison an oxygen tank. :laugh: 

I knew we'd come out and let this team stick in this thing.


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## JNice

Good thing Hill came to play tonight.

Hill with 15 pts, 5 rebs, 3 asts in first half.

Dwight with 5 pts 8 rebs.


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## hobojoe

Hill has been by far our best player tonight, Francis once again hasn't shown up. This is beginning to look like a bit of a disturbing pattern. Stevie hasn't shown up for our road games so far this year at all, especially against the weaker opponents. A real lackluster first half from the Magic except for Hill and Howard. Mario Kasun is horrendous, he needs to be cut and we need to find another big body that can play the game of basketball. I hope we see Brandon Hunter in the second half, he was just activated from the IL.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> I'm sorry, but if Hill stays healthy, he is an All-Star.
> 
> He just keeps looking better.


:yes: 

He's going to start the all-star game for the East, and be very deserving of it too.


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## X-Factor

We are winning, and I'm still upset with the team. How could we be winning by one bucket to a team with seven players, and aren't with there best two players. Every one is putting this one in the bag for the Magic, but what are they doing out there? Hopefuly we'll come out of half-time with a little more heart.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> :yes:
> 
> He's going to start the all-star game for the East, and be very deserving of it too.


I hope so. And I really hope that he truly stays healthy.

Even me being optimistic if someone had tried to convince me that Hill could be pretty much his old form again, I would have disagreed. Right now, if he stays healthy, I think he could end up being just as good as he was in his Detroit days. Minus the dunking, but still as effective in winning games.



> "I'd call it one of God's gifts...It's the best story in the NBA." -- Allen Iverson on Hill's comeback


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Minnesota Magician</b>!
> We are winning, and I'm still upset with the team. How could we be winning by one bucket to a team with seven players, and aren't with there best two players. Every one is putting this one in the bag for the Magic, but what are they doing out there? Hopefuly we'll come out of half-time with a little more heart.


Well, two reasons. We aren't playing with much intensity, especially defensively.

Second, the Pacers players are on kind of an emotional rush and getting a lift from the crowd ... and Harrison, Jones, and Jones are all playing pretty good ball.

Doesn't matter who is on the court with you, if they hit shots, then they hit shots.

Regardless of our lack of intensity, we'll probably win just because most of the Pacers players are going to need to play 46-48 mins.


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## JNice

Dwight with 10+ again. 9 straight.


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## X-Factor

Wow we are playing some sloopy ball right now, we need to be more focused. And to Dwight's 10+ rebounds AGAIN wow, thats simply amazing.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Minnesota Magician</b>!
> Wow we are playing some sloopy ball right now. And to Dwight's 10+ rebounds AGAIN wow, thats simply amazing.


I think he's got a couple blocks too. Playing good D on Croshere.


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## hobojoe

Great defense by Howard on Croshere, Magic open the lead up to 8. Turkoglu's come out strong in the second half, hit a three and a runner 11 points for the game. Hill may be having his best all-around game of the year, 6 rebounds and 5 assists to go along with his 15 points already. Howard's up to 11 rebounds and he also has 2 blocks.


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## JNice

Harrison really slowing down.


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## JNice

Only up 4. :no: 

Bad, but expected performance for us so far tonight.


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## JNice

Up 1. :laugh: 

Jones lighting us up.


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## JNice

Thank God for Turkey Glue.


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## hobojoe

This is perhaps the worst game I've ever seen any Magic team play. Nobody even looks like the care. Thank goodness for Hedo Turkoglu, that's all I have to say. :no:


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## X-Factor

Fred Jones went off in the 3rd. Turk was keeping the momentum at an even point-of-view. Tied at 65 at the end of the 3rd and I think to myself, how? But then I realize that Johnny "The Blockhead" Davis has all the scrubs in and the Pacers are coming back. There's something wrong with that picture.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> This is perhaps the worst game I've ever seen any Magic team play. Nobody even looks like the care. Thank goodness for Hedo Turkoglu, that's all I have to say. :no:


I kinda figured this would happen.


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## X-Factor

Grant Hill is heating up, look for him to score bucket after bucket in these up coming minutes.


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## PacersguyUSA

Damn Grant Hill.


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## JNice

Why is it that the Orlando players are the ones that look the most tired?


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## JNice

David Harrison has played a great game. But he might not be able to move tomorrow.


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## JNice

About time Francis did something.


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## JNice

Hill with the big jumper. If not for Hill, we lose this game by 15. Sad.


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## JNice

Big props to the Pacers players. Orlando has played pretty crappy, but the Pacers are in this game for legitimate reasons.


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## JNice

Cato with two huge free throws. I am surprised he made both.


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## PacersguyUSA

Fred Jones: 31


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## JNice

Fred Jones = MJ?


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## hobojoe

Magic luck out, squeak out an 86-83 win.


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## hobojoe

Great performence from Fred Jones and David Harrison. A lot of heart from those two, and some solid play the entire game from each. Freddie played all 48 minutes in this one too. Terrible game for the Magic, I'm just glad we came away with the win.


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## JNice

2 trends I am noticing -

1) Not a surprise, but other than Hill, all our other guys play much different on the road. Mainly Francis, but other guys as well. They are going to have to improve on that.

2) Dwight Howard has been disappearing in the 2nd half of games. Which is amazing he is still averaging over 10+ rebounds considering he is doing almost all of that in the first half. Johnny has got to find a way to get Dwight more involved in the 2nd half.


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## X-Factor

Wow end of game Magic 86 Pace 83. The reasons why the game was close:
MAGIC- Grant Hill kept the Magic close this whole game and is the reason the magic didn't lose.
Point 2- The rebounding differential was greatly in Orlando's advantage.
Reason 3- The obvious solution for the magic winning was the depth, or lack there of for the Pacers. John Edwards? I thought he was the Democartic Vice-President canidate...
PACERS- Obvious Answer in Freddie Jones. Sensational game for him, I have to tip my hat to the guy he played his heart out.


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## hobojoe

Boxscore 

Stevie really needs to start showing up to these road games, and against the weaker opponents. He played a very lackluster game. Sure he picked it up a notch in the 4th and made that huge steal and the 3-point play down on the other end, but other than that he didn't do much rest of the game.


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## X-Factor

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Fred Jones = MJ?


Sure Fred Jones could be the next Mark Jackson, but I don't see Fred Jones and Mark Jackson's playing style alike...


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Boxscore
> 
> Stevie really needs to start showing up to these road games, and against the weaker opponents. He played a very lackluster game. Sure he picked it up a notch in the 4th and made that huge steal and the 3-point play down on the other end, but other than that he didn't do much rest of the game.


Agree. Stevie needs to step up in these road games.


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## hobojoe

Great play down the stretch from Cato and Hill though, stepping up and making all of their free throws in the clutch. What the hell was Garrity thinking when he fouled James Jones on that 3?


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## hobojoe

Kinda OT, but Washington won against New Jersey tonight, so the Magic have a one game lead for the second spot in the Southeast division. I know, I know, it's a little early in the year to be watching the scoreboard and rooting for certain teams to win and lose for the Magic's benefit, but what can I say? I'm a fan! :grinning:


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Great play down the stretch from Cato and Hill though, stepping up and making all of their free throws in the clutch. What the hell was Garrity thinking when he fouled James Jones on that 3?


He was going for his single game personal block record - 1. :laugh:


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## hobojoe

Great all-around game from Hill, 28 points on 10-16 shooting, his jumper was on today, he hit four huge jumpers in the fourth quarter to keep us in the game, and he hit the free throws down the stretch. 7 rebounds and 6 assists from Grant also, only 2 turnovers.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Great all-around game from Hill, 28 points on 10-16 shooting, his jumper was on today, he hit four huge jumpers in the fourth quarter to keep us in the game, and he hit the free throws down the stretch. 7 rebounds and 6 assists from Grant also, only 2 turnovers.


He might have gotten a triple double if it weren't for Fred Jones going off. Hill looked pretty tired in the 4th after he had to keep chasing Fred Jones around, who was clearly too quick for Hill.


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## hobojoe

For a guy with a reputation as a slacker, and a guy who doesn't hustle, David Harrison sure looked like the complete opposite tonight. Diving for loose balls, battling all game long for position down low, blocking shots, fighting for rebounds. Very impressive game from the rookie.


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## hobojoe

Recap 

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Limited to just six players one night after brawling with fans, the Indiana Pacers dropped an 86-83 decision to the Orlando Magic on Saturday night. 

With leading scorers Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson suspended indefinitely by the NBA earlier in the day following an ugly fight with fans Friday night in Detroit, the short-handed Pacers managed to stay close against the Magic. 

But Grant Hill made four free throws in the final 12 seconds and finished with 28 points for Orlando. 

Fred Jones scored a career best 31 points and rookie David Harrison added 19 for the Pacers.


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## Pacers Fan

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> For a guy with a reputation as a slacker, and a guy who doesn't hustle, David Harrison sure looked like the complete opposite tonight. Diving for loose balls, battling all game long for position down low, blocking shots, fighting for rebounds. Very impressive game from the rookie.


Not exactly, it would've been better if he hadn't dove for the loose ball; James Jones probably would've gotten it, instead of it becoming a TO. Harrison really sucked on the boards; everytime he grabbed one, he either lost it or it was poked away. He gave absolutely NO effort on defense except maybe a play or two. For Harrison to be effective on offense, you have to feed him the ball with at least 15 seconds left of the shot clock, or else he'll turn it over or miss.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Not exactly, it would've been better if he hadn't dove for the loose ball; James Jones probably would've gotten it, instead of it becoming a TO. Harrison really sucked on the boards; everytime he grabbed one, he either lost it or it was poked away. He gave absolutely NO effort on defense except maybe a play or two. For Harrison to be effective on offense, you have to feed him the ball with at least 15 seconds left of the shot clock, or else he'll turn it over or miss.



Well, you've always been hard on him and you didn't like when the Pacers drafted him, so it doesn't surprise me you're being so critical of his play. The fact that he dove for the ball tells you he was hustling. Everything else you say may be true(although I think you're greatly exaggerating) but it doesn't change the fact that he played a good, hard game yesterday. You can't expect him to be perfect, but he was one of the key reasons Indiana was in the game until the very end.


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## hobojoe




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## Captain Obvious

A win is a win, but our road woes are a little bit disconcerting. I didn't get to see the game, there were some more important things going on up here .


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> A win is a win, but our road woes are a little bit disconcerting. I didn't get to see the game, there were some more important things going on up here .


Like what, the refs handing the game to the Gators?


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