# Blazers nearing trade?



## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

According to my sources: The Blazers are prepared to send D.Miles and Theo to New York for Penny and David Lee.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

If true, that's a great trade for New York, and not so good for us. I like David Lee's potential, but that's giving up a lot for him.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

I would like Frye MUCH more. I don't think Lee is enough and I doubt Nash will go for that trade, a draft pick would probably be included.


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

Apparently it's really up to New York whether they want to do this trade or not. If they include David Lee this trade happens. I guess Portland has offered this trade.


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## Sheed30 (Apr 3, 2003)

I think Nash is willing to do that deal, because it will get us 15 million cap space to re-sign Joel. But I dont want to give up D-Miles for D. Lee. If the do this deal, Nate must really not like Darius. And with Ruben with us for 1 more year at the most, if he doesnt get dealt this offseason, we could be going from having to many SF's with Miles, Viktor, Outlaw and Ruben to just having Viktor and Outlaw in a years spand. :curse:


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Seriously? That's robbery.

Nash must want Oden BAD!


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i guess we will see soon but if that is the trade on the table then ny would be dumb to say no.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

Sheed30 said:


> I think Nash is willing to do that deal, because it will get us 15 million cap space to re-sign Joel. But I dont want to give up D-Miles for D. Lee. If the do this deal, Nate must really not like Darius. And with Ruben with us for 1 more year at the most, if he doesnt get dealt this offseason, we could be going from having to many SF's with Miles, Viktor, Outlaw and Ruben to just having Viktor and Outlaw in a years spand. :curse:


maybe they want morrison or gay that bad


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Sheed30 said:


> I think Nash is willing to do that deal, because it will get us 15 million cap space to re-sign Joel. But I dont want to give up D-Miles for D. Lee. If the do this deal, Nate must really not like Darius. And with Ruben with us for 1 more year at the most, if he doesnt get dealt this offseason, we could be going from having to many SF's with Miles, Viktor, Outlaw and Ruben to just having Viktor and Outlaw in a years spand. :curse:


(I think) We'd still need another trade (Patterson) to get $15 million under the cap.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Is Isiah Thomas your "source"? :biggrin: :angel:


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

CanJohno said:


> Is Isiah Thomas your "source"? :biggrin: :angel:


lol no I got it from an email from Jason Quick.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I could live with that deal, I guess. Miles is a guy that I wouldn't mind keeping around, but I'm worried about his health and he's no bargain with his contract. Theo's a salary albatross and Lee looks like a solid NBA player.

We'd be a worse team this year and next, but with all things considered and Oden coming up maybe that's not the worst thing in the world.

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I don't think its going to happen.

Paul would be butt hurt if Nash traded his boy.


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

I'm actually surprised the media has not reported the rumors. Don't worry it will come out soon :angel: 

(just having some fun)

Here's the link:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix0217,0,1158105.story?coll=ny-sports-


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I would hope Miles + Theo for Penny + Lee would turn into Penny + Frye

or we get a draft pick from NY as well.

I see it as a offshoot of earlier talk (not that it was valid)..... Theo + Ruben for Penny + Lee

With Miles now included I woud want more than just Frye. Miles is an obvious upgrade over Ruben


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

Here's some quotes:


> Talks involving the Knicks' interest in Portland's Theo Ratliff and Darius Miles have moved back to the forefront, according to a Western Conference personnel expert. Orlando's Steve Francis and Denver's Kenyon Martin seem to be fading as Knicks trade targets.





> If the Knicks want Ratliff and Miles, all they have to do is include Lee -- "the finishing piece," as the Western Conference personnel expert put it -- along with Hardaway's contract.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I bet if something like this does happen, there will be some modifications. Maybe Ariza will be added to the mix or something. Usually, rumored deals that actually get finalized have a few modifications.


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## Sheed30 (Apr 3, 2003)

Fork said:


> (I think) We'd still need another trade (Patterson) to get $15 million under the cap.


Sorry, I meant that it would get us 15 million of the books and possibly close to the cap or under the cap, but Im not excatly sure what the total salary is for the Blazers this year.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I really like this for both teams. The Blazers need to get at least one young player out of this, though.


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## maxiep (May 7, 2003)

This was the deal I was afraid of. My worst case scenario was Theo and Miles for Penny and Ariza, but this is close. 

We trade arguably our best center and by far our best SF for cap space and a backup four. Disappointing, but this season has been a string of disappointments.

I can't believe Ruben is still on this team and none of our youngsters have stepped up.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

now granted I know nothing of Lee, but I hope that if they do a trade with NY, it's for more than just Lee.

But you gotta admit, if Ed O says it's not a bad trade, it can't be too bad.

wait a second...the best we can do is penny's contract and a late 1st rounder from last year? (nbadraft.net had him, for some reason, as a mid 2nd rounder).

isn't the point to improve?


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

If that trade goes down, it could mean a couple of things:

1. Nate has given Outlaw the stamp of approval for the suits.











or 


2. The suits have decided to go with a SF in the draft.












Either way, I like this deal. It gives us a stud at power forward that could possibly replace Zach someday. It clears up the 3 spot for Outlaw or someone else. And it gives us enough cash to resign Joel.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

It won't happen.

No way Nash leaves Portland with Joel and Ha as a back-up. What if Joel bolts (even if the money's there)?


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

wastro said:


> It won't happen.
> 
> No way Nash leaves Portland with Joel and Ha as a back-up. What if Joel bolts (even if the money's there)?


There's probably someone they'd pick up from the D-League. I don't see that being the breaking point of the deal.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

wastro said:


> It won't happen.
> 
> No way Nash leaves Portland with Joel and Ha as a back-up. What if Joel bolts (even if the money's there)?


Maybe we'd be getting Jackie Butler, too?

Miles
Ratliff

for

Penny
Lee
Butler


-- or --


Miles
Ratliff

for

Penny
Lee
Denver Pick


-- or --


:biggrin:

Ratliff
Miles
Detroit pick or second rounder

for

Penny
Frye





Maybe? :whoknows:


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

RealGM story :reporter:


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

How many trades of this magnitude get this much press before they happen?

Very rarely.

It's not happening.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

actually, now that I have time to think about the trade, if it's as rumored (Theo + Darius for Penny and Lee) thats a pretty weak trade. I really hope that there's more to this than just Lee in return (Penny is dee you enn dun). 

As much flak as Darius gets from us fans for his game, I'd really hope Theo and him are worth more than the 30th pick in the draft. Even if you take into account the $$ the Blazers save, and I understand what that potentially gives us. But jeesh, talk about taking back nothing in return (not a knock on Lee, just that even for all Miles faults, he should be worth more than a 1st round pick from last year).


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## maxiep (May 7, 2003)

The cap relief won't give us the necessary funds to re-sign Joel for anything other than the MLE. 

Our projected salary next year is $62,135,672. We have two draft picks, assumed at #12 and #30 (our #12 will likely be higher, but I'm being conservative). Those two picks total an estimated $2.95MM in salary. Take away Theo and Darius and you have $45,774,957. Add in David Lee's salary and we're at $46,700,997. Assume a 3% increase in the salary cap which puts it at $50,985,000. That leaves us with only $4,284,003 to offer Joel. The MLE will be at $5MM to $5.25MM.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Hap said:


> actually, now that I have time to think about the trade, if it's as rumored (Theo + Darius for Penny and Lee) thats a pretty weak trade. I really hope that there's more to this than just Lee in return (Penny is dee you enn dun).
> 
> As much flak as Darius gets from us fans for his game, I'd really hope Theo and him are worth more than the 30th pick in the draft. Even if you take into account the $$ the Blazers save, and I understand what that potentially gives us. But jeesh, talk about taking back nothing in return (not a knock on Lee, just that even for all Miles faults, he should be worth more than a 1st round pick from last year).


I think when you look at it from the context of Portland's top 5 pick this year, which is likely to be a SF, AND dumping salary AND gaining the ability to sign Joel AND clearling up time in the rotation for him to become 'the' center AND getting Lee to back up Randolph, it becomes a better trade.

Granted, I think Miles is worth slightly more, but if Nash wants to go in a different direction, the Knicks are the best team to help.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Samuel said:


> I think when you look at it from the context of Portland's top 5 pick this year, which is likely to be a SF, AND dumping salary AND gaining the ability to sign Joel AND clearling up time in the rotation for him to become 'the' center AND getting Lee to back up Randolph, it becomes a better trade.
> 
> Granted, I think Miles is worth slightly more, but if Nash wants to go in a different direction, the Knicks are the best team to help.


very true, but what happens if the SF they want (assuming they want morrison or gay) is gone by their pick?

I'd rather have frye (not saying that I think the knicks would part with him or that we should dem...actually, if we're trading miles, I'd hope they'd at least ask for him) and still get a top 3-5 pick.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Hap said:


> very true, but what happens if the SF they want (assuming they want morrison or gay) is gone by their pick?
> 
> I'd rather have frye (not saying that I think the knicks would part with him or that we should dem...actually, if we're trading miles, I'd hope they'd at least ask for him) and still get a top 3-5 pick.


Between Carney, Morrison, and Gay, there's a good chance Portland drafts a 3 this summer. Even if that doesn't happen as you say, (assuming Ruben's buyout) Outlaw, Monia, Khryapa, and even Lee are all there to play the 3. An Aldridge or a Bargnani would slide nicely behind Randolph in the rotation in that case.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Samuel said:


> Between Carney, Morrison, and Gay, there's a good chance Portland drafts a 3 this summer. Even if that doesn't happen as you say, (assuming Ruben's buyout) Outlaw, Monia, Khryapa, and even Lee are all there to play the 3. An Aldridge or a Bargnani would slide nicely behind Randolph in the rotation in that case.


hm..its hoping for a better player in the draft than what could be..

In a perfect world (well, with this trade scenario I mean) we'd get Frye and give up Detroits pick with theo and miles..and draft morrison or gay..and watch as they "blow up". 

but in a perfect world I'm married to the bhg, and about 50 pounds lighter*. And we know that ain'ta happening anytmie soon.


*I just need to invent sliding and take over that Hap's life.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Hap said:


> hm..its hoping for a better player in the draft than what could be..
> 
> In a perfect world (well, with this trade scenario I mean) we'd get Frye and give up Detroits pick with theo and miles..and draft morrison or gay..and watch as they "blow up".


Telfair destroys the summer league. Outlaw comes into camp with 20 pounds of extra muscle and fire in his eyes.

Martell breaks into the starting lineup at around midseason, and with Telfair at the helm, the team leads the league in three point shooting, fg %, and after a 10 game winning streak in March, grabs the 8th seed. Morrison gets ROY, Outlaw leads the team in scoring.


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## ravor44 (Feb 26, 2005)

Samuel said:


> Telfair destroys the summer league. Outlaw comes into camp with 20 pounds of extra muscle and fire in his eyes.
> 
> Martell breaks into the starting lineup at around midseason, and with Telfair at the helm, the team leads the league in three point shooting, fg %, and after a 10 game winning streak in March, grabs the 8th seed. Morrison gets ROY, Outlaw leads the team in scoring.


nice scenario..but doubt if it happens....


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

Man I hate this trade, but sadly I could see it happening.

If we're giving up Miles and Theo we'd better get Penny, Lee, another young guy, and a draft pick. If this trade goes down, it would end all debate that Miles contract if Miles contract is a negative asset, since it would be seen as a negative by either New York or Portland, if not both. 

Trading away your best player for an expiring contract and no draft pick isn't a good thing.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

Combining Knicks trade rumors, how about something like this? I'd go for it, I think:

Portland Trade Breakdown	

Outgoing	

Charles Smith
6-4 SG from New Mexico
4.0 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 9.8 minutes	
Ruben Patterson
6-5 SF from Cincinnati
11.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 23.3 minutes	
Darius Miles
6-9 SF from East St. Louis (HS)
17.9 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.6 apg in 37.6 minutes	
Theo Ratliff
6-10 C from Wyoming
4.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 23.6 minutes	
2006 Detroit 1st round draft pick

Incoming	

David Lee
6-9 PF from Florida
4.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.1 minutes	
Trevor Ariza
6-8 SF from UCLA
4.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.3 apg in 19.8 minutes	
Quentin Richardson
6-6 SG from DePaul
7.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 25.2 minutes	
Anfernee Hardaway
6-7 SG from Memphis
2.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 18.0 minutes	
Two future 1st round draft picks
2006 2nd round draft pick

Change in team outlook: -18.3 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +0.7 apg.	

New York Trade Breakdown	

Outgoing	

David Lee
6-9 PF from Florida
4.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.1 minutes	
Trevor Ariza
6-8 SF from UCLA
4.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.3 apg in 19.8 minutes	
Quentin Richardson
6-6 SG from DePaul
7.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 25.2 minutes	
Anfernee Hardaway
6-7 SG from Memphis
2.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 18.0 minutes	
Two future 1st round draft picks
2006 2nd round draft pick

Incoming	

Charles Smith
6-4 SG from New Mexico
4.0 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 9.8 minutes	
Ruben Patterson
6-5 SF from Cincinnati
11.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 23.3 minutes	
Darius Miles
6-9 SF from East St. Louis (HS)
17.9 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.6 apg in 37.6 minutes	
Theo Ratliff
6-10 C from Wyoming
4.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 23.6 minutes	
2006 Detroit 1st round draft pick

Change in team outlook: +18.3 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -0.7 apg.	


Successful Scenario	
Due to Portland and New York being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Portland and New York had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

I might take fewer draft picks, different draft picks or add protection to the draft picks, but this is where I would start the discussions.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

better not happen.

this has got me upset, for real.


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## azsun18 (Aug 12, 2004)

I thought the FA pool this year was pretty weak? I am not sure where to find this info easilty, but I am sure someone on this board does. This trade isnt just about salary cap relief this year, but gets us closer to cap relief in the near future also since now MIles, Theo and at the latest RP after next year iill all be gone. I love MIles game, but I like this trade since it gets us out from Theos contract. I just think a SF of Miles caliber should not be a deal breaker, the NBA is full of decent SF's.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

We have seen that the Blazers have a glut of small forwards who are not of NBA starting caliber. The only one who is: Darius Miles. So they trade him and a serviceable center (which leaves Ha as the only back up to a gimpy Joel Przybilla) for a has been and a maybe will be? They still won't have cap room and the team gets even worse?

Sounds like the kind of deal Isiah Thomas would do in reverse.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

lee is the rebounding pf we have been missing since zbo got hurt 

we wont trade for any sf not with ny anyways, plus if we still have the piston and 2nd rounder i am sure we will trade up or draft players that will stay over seas like rudy!


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## gatorpops (Dec 17, 2004)

With Penney, we get our "All-Star" two guard (9th highest paid player in the league). :biggrin: :banana: 

And Webster gets his Penney's mentoring and leadership for the next few months. Not bad, I guess. 

They have not let Lee play much and so I would like to know how he did in college. Anybody?

gatorpops


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

crandc said:


> We have seen that the Blazers have a glut of small forwards who are not of NBA starting caliber. The only one who is: Darius Miles. So they trade him and a serviceable center (which leaves Ha as the only back up to a gimpy Joel Przybilla) for a has been and a maybe will be? They still won't have cap room and the team gets even worse?
> 
> Sounds like the kind of deal Isiah Thomas would do in reverse.


I agree. If the point is to improve now - or even in the near future - this deal sucks. 

David Lee is a decent player, and will probably be a good backup. But Darius Miles is a starter-worthy, or 6th man player with a broad array of talents, from good ball-handling to shooting range to amazing athleticism, and is worth more than David Lee. Good rebounders and average scorers are often available in the draft, or through trades that don't involve lottery picks like Miles. And then the Blazers basically dump Theo for cap relief, even though it still doesn't get them under the cap? 

This is a terrible deal if the Blazers' plan is anything other than tanking and trying to insure a better draft pick. If Nate wants to improve the team, this is a strong step in _wrong_ direction.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I would do the deal. I think we need to get rid of D-Miles. He's talented, but he has no heart or work ethic.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

I'm probably the only one who feels this way, but trading Miles is addition by subtraction, IMO.

PBF


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

i doubt they would do this deal if they didn't have other plans to get further under the cap and a spoken agreement of some kind with joel (or at least i hope..)


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

I agree P.D. and crandc. Like Ed said, this trade would make us worse this year and next year. We would be trading two starting quality players for one backup. It would save Paul Allen a lot of money. It would ensure a high lotto pick next year (which would be a good thing). Which means another year of the same *****ing and moaning and manic depressive mood swings that have characterized this board the past few months.

I like gambitnut's trade a lot better.


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

ProudBFan said:


> I'm probably the only one who feels this way, but trading Miles is addition by subtraction, IMO.
> 
> PBF



well it probably is now, since miles will have a crappy "i'm unwanted here" attitude if the trade doesn't go down.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Trader Bob said:


> I would hope Miles + Theo for Penny + Lee would turn into Penny + Frye
> 
> or we get a draft pick from NY as well.



I agree with Hap and the others... we need more from this than a salary dump. We need a draft pick as well...

I like Gambitnuts trade, but think we can praobaly deal Patterson for someone else on his own by the deadline. Teams jockying for playoff defense may want Ruben as an added piece to the puzzle for something worthwhile.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

I'd be the first one to trade Miles last year, but this year he's actually taken what appears to be a leadership role, at least vocally. And Theo..sure he costs alot, but he also hides the inability of our guards to prevent the drive in the lane.

If they're trading those two, I'd hope they get more.

Also, how does this correlate, if at all, with Nate's comments about Viktor at PF? Zach, Viktor, Lee...


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

It's to bad CHI already owns NY's first round pick for this year..if they threw that in I might be a bit more interested. 

A question: Is Qrich healthy? Would it be a risk trading for him health-wise?


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

sa1177 said:


> It's to bad CHI already owns NY's first round pick for this year..if they threw that in I might be a bit more interested.



if they still had the pick it would be worth more than any of the players involved (with the possible exception of penny's expiring contract). a potential #1 pick isn't exactly a throw in : )


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

gambitnut said:


> Combining Knicks trade rumors, how about something like this? I'd go for it, I think:


just say no to quentin richardson.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

gatorpops said:


> They have not let Lee play much and so I would like to know how he did in college. Anybody?


Notes on Lee after college:

From nbadraft.net



> Strengths: Uses his size well…Quicker than most big men, and can slide through players in the lane… A good rebounder who really works on the glass… Relentlessly hits the offensive boards … He can step out and hit the occasional 18-footer …decent handle for a big man and can drive past slower post players…gets great position in the post, and has excellent footwork… A sound passer… Solid defensively and gives great effort He's tall. 6'10 with long arms and very quick for big man…crafty player who knows his strengths and plays to them. Excellent athlete with very good quickness and explosiveness. Has a great feel for the game.
> 
> Weaknesses: Not strong enough and can be overpowered down low … Really must focus on expanding his range ... Has some moves on the block, but not a real threat offensively… He can block shots, but not as great at it, and you'd expect with his height/length and leaping ability that he would swat more.


draftexpress.com



> Strengths: A terrific athlete. High riser that loves to dunk with authority. Extremely quick and mobile in the post. Possesses a nice array of post moves, great footwork, Ambidextrous, meaning he can dribble and finish equally well with both his left and right hands (he's a natural lefty). Lee is especially good at establishing position in the paint and his soft hands make him a reliable target in the post. Has bulked up significantly, putting on over 15 pounds of pure muscle and dropping his body fat from 12% to 7%. Free throwing shooting has improved leaps and bounds, from under 55% his freshman year to over 75% this season. Could leave Florida as the all time best field goal shooter in school history, currently at 62%. That should tell you a little bit about the role he played for the Gators. Outside shooting has improved as well, used to be extremely limited outside the paint but is now hitting shots from the perimeter and especially from the baseline on a regular basis. If this trend continues he will be extremely a very tough player to match up with. Runs the floor well and is always a streaking threat on the break. Has good handles for a big man and likes to take his defender off the dribble. Lee is also a very gifted passer out of the post, he might be the best passing big man in the NCAA. He has a knack for finding the open man and passes extremely well out of the double team.
> 
> Weaknesses: Only really started playing Power Forward this year after manning the 5 spot his first two seasons, and that might of hurt his development somewhat. Measurements will be key, especially his wingspan. Lee is just an average rebounder for a player with his athleticism and frame. He doesn't box out well enough and he is often out hustled in the paint by stronger players. He manages to grabs lots of Offensive boards though which somewhat makes up for that. Defense needs to drastically improve to stay on the court in the pros. As of right now he will be outmuscled in the post by some of the bigger PF's in the league unless he continues to work hard and gets bigger and meaner. He'll be wearing the soft tag until he decides to prove to everyone he's not. Has shown some improved range but not enough to convince everyone just yet. Tends to disappear at times on offense and doesn't demand the ball from his teammates. Easily frustrated if things aren't going his way. Not a very vocal leader on the floor and hasn't produced for Florida in the clutch when he is most needed. Conditioning is somewhat of a concern. He is so energetic that he is often drained at the end of games. Will need to learn to conserve his energy if he is to play 82 games a year.


I'm not sure any of this makes him much of a better backup that Viktor. I don't mind getting rid of Miles (still may have issues, doesn't really like the game) and Theo (not part of long term plan) for salary savings, but Lee isn't enough for two starters. Their salaries aren't that bad.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

He's also 19th in the league in rebounds per 48 minutes.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

crowTrobot said:


> if they still had the pick it would be worth more than any of the players involved (with the possible exception of penny's expiring contract). a potential #1 pick isn't exactly a throw in : )


yeh I know...it was wishful thinking..plus anything is possible when you are trading with Zeke. :biggrin:


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> It's to bad CHI already owns NY's first round pick for this year..if they threw that in I might be a bit more interested


Well, technically by giving NY Miles & Theo, you would hope they become a better team and thus CHI falls out of that #3 spot......

I kind of agree with EdO here, in that, even though it probably would depress a lot of pewople here, POR sucking foir this year and the next may end up being the best thing long term....

The 2007 draft looks to be much deeper in talent...besides the sweepstakes for Oden, POR would have a good shot at guys like Kevin Durant, Brandan Wright, Shawne Williams, Josh McRoberts.....

I don't think POR would be done with this deal.....My guess would be POR tries to unload Ruben with another young SF not named Khryapa (Monia or Outlaw) for a pick and an expiring contract...

Ruben to HOU for David Wesley? HOU could use Ruben....MIA is another team


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I like what I see with Lee, but I am against making bad deals just for the sake of keeping Joel. This deal has upside, and downside. The way I see it:

1. Downside-Trading Miles and Ratliff for an expiring contract and a rookie is talent going out the door unless management feels that Lee has more upside for the future then Miles/Ratliff have with the team.

2. Upside-Small forward logjam relief, possibly bringing definition to the team.

3. Backup PF role is finally filled, rebounding shored up a bit. (Which is easily one of the Blazers biggest problems.) 

4. Downside-It is quite possible that all the small forwards left on the team might not be worth a damn.

5. Downside-Nickel Hardaway. 

So I guess what I am saying, is that David Lee had better have a lot of upside for this trade to go down. :clown:


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yeah a young rebounding back up true pf that has size and what score 7-10 points? 

sounds good to me

maybe we plan a sign and trade involving joel


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

hasoos said:


> So I guess what I am saying, is that David Lee had better have a lot of upside for this trade to go down. :clown:


]


Wasn't Lee a McDonald's All American? I watched him play quite a bit at Florida. Decent Athlete. Maybe a little stiff, but he's got a decent touch. I don't know . . . he's a b/u. That's my take anyways. We're not looking at a 20/10 guy here. I don't like the trade, but I'd do it (if that makes sense) Theo's contract sucks, we obviously aren't getting other quality offers for Miles. I just don't have a good feeling about Miles-Nate.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

If this trade goes down, it will be embarrassing that the one time Thomas pulls of a good trade, it's against the Blazers.


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

Kmurph said:


> I don't think POR would be done with this deal.....My guess would be POR tries to unload Ruben with another young SF not named Khryapa (Monia or Outlaw) for a pick and an expiring contract...



yes they should trade miles, ruben, AND outlaw for expiring contracts and keep victor. that sounds like the best idea yet. pardon me while i shoot myself.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

crowTrobot said:


> yes they should trade miles, ruben, AND outlaw for expiring contracts and keep victor. that sounds like the best idea yet. pardon me while i shoot myself.


well, altho I'm not high on that scenario, if they do believe that the SF crops in the draft are better than our current group of SF's, it might in the end be justified.

This'll work as long as we don't get dumped to like 6-10 in the draft, and stuck with a player who's not going to be or is better than what the team has.

Im hoping there's something more to the trade, or that we aren't thinning the SF crop SO thin that we're stuck with Viktor as the only REAL SF who's played any major minutes.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

kaydow said:


> I just don't have a good feeling about Miles-Nate.



May I ask why that is? I've heard nothing implying any sort of trouble between those two specfically, and Darius was having his best year before injury. It seems to me like they are a pretty good match.


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

uke: If this happens, can I trade my Blazer season tickets for seats to next year's Nutcracker?


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

what's really sad is we seem incapable of thinking outside the box and planning our future around starting miles and outlaw together. i would really like to see what a healthy starting lineup of telfair/miles/outlaw/zach + joel or theo could devolop into if they played together regularly. there is nothing dixon is doing that miles or outlaw couldn't potentially do much better, particularly on D.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Samuel said:


> Telfair destroys the summer league. Outlaw comes into camp with 20 pounds of extra muscle and fire in his eyes.
> 
> Martell breaks into the starting lineup at around midseason, and with Telfair at the helm, the team leads the league in three point shooting, fg %, and after a 10 game winning streak in March, grabs the 8th seed.


That would be disaster. We DO NOT WANT THE EIGHT SEED THE YEAR OF THE ODEN!!!


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Well Nate has made up his mind that he likes Khryapa over Outlaw or Monia....Ruben is not going to be here long term, POR has been trying to unload him for a few YEARS now, and his outbursts have just sealed his fate...he is gone anyway

and what you are conveniently forgetting is that POR WOULD be adding a Morrison\Gay\Bargnani or Williams thru the draft this year...

Remember that FOUR out of the Top FIVE players in this years draft are SF types....and POR will have a Top 5 pick...and I would argue that ALL four of them will end up being better players than ANY of the SF on our roster....


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

We can't keep them all, and no trade should be evaluated simply by the Statistical numbers.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

As crappy as this deal is now it might not be so bad in the long term if you assume some things.
1. Miles is a cancer. As good as he is you can't build a team around him so just get rid of him.
2. Theo won't last that much longer so we should get out from under his contract ASAP. 
3. The long term is far more important than the short term.

This deal would put us significantly under the cap for the 07 off season. As crappy as I think the plan may be I could see Allen and company thinking that the next two guys we draft will be guys that other people will want to play with. So in theory we'd have a talented young team and enough cap space to take on one or two max contracts. Anybody know if the 07 free agent class looks any good?


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Alright, So when I came home today and I read the Sports section and the article about the Blazers and it talked about how the Suns traded Marbury and everybody and kind of rebuilt.

Well, this is exactly what this trade is doing for us. It may be trading away some of our valuable players, but look at their contracts. Theo shouldn't be earning this kind of money, and while I think Miles' contract is fair, it's a bit long. 

If a trade like this were to happen, this would be the perfect year to do it. Because as people have said, this draft has atleast 4 SF's just in the Top 10. Morrison, Gay, Carney, Baragani are all players we can draft. For the people worried about us becoming to thin next year at the 3, you are seeming to forget about some of our versitile guards. Monia should be playing the 3, Webster can play the 3, so that adds 2 more possible SF's to our rotation. 

Personally, I like Gay or Carney but I would not mind Morrison. This frees up quite a bit of money for us, and even if we don't trade Ruben, his contract comes off the book next year. Not to mention Steve Blake has a Team Option that we don't necessarily have to pick up this offseason.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is, PHX fans didn't like the Marbury trade when it happened. But look where it got them? Nash, QRich and a 62 win season. If we come into this offseason with more flexibility $$ wise and a more balanced roster, Nate will be able to help get players that he can use, and start to really mold this team.

So if this trade does happen, just give it a chance.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

does anyone else think it's odd that Portland is "holding out for Lee"?

why would NY _not_ do that trade as is?

They're getting 2 players who can step in instantly (well, not theo) and play decent minutes, and they're giving up a gimp and a rookie??

Me thinks/hopes that it's not Lee who Portland is holding out for.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Hap said:


> does anyone else think it's odd that Portland is "holding out for Lee"?
> 
> why would NY _not_ do that trade as is?
> 
> ...


Yeah... maybe Frye.... or a three way deal involving others


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

I have to say "how are the mighty fallen". No, I don't mean the Blazers, I mean Penny Hardaway. When he came into the league as the #3 pick, Golden State traded him for Chris Webber and also gave Orlando 3 1st round draft picks (and since GSW went into the tank they were all high picks). The story line was that Hardaway and Shaquille O'Neal would be the new Magic and Kareem. They did get to the finals once and to the ECF but then O'Neal bolts. Still, Hardaway was a perennial all star and a first team all NBA. 
Now? People are debating whether we even want him for half a season and the Knicks are trying to get rid of him to anyone who wants cap relief. 
Sad.
I don't cry over people who wrecked their careers by being jerks (see: Sprewell, Latrell and Rider, Isaiah) but a more or less decent person who had a load of talent but got killed by injuries, like Hardaway or Grant Hill, I can feel some sympathy for. 
But hell, they still have a lot more $ than I'll ever see.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

Foulzilla said:


> May I ask why that is? I've heard nothing implying any sort of trouble between those two specfically, and Darius was having his best year before injury. It seems to me like they are a pretty good match.


Just a gut feeling. I don't have any sources, just speculating. Miles has been always played inconsistantly, is known for "dogging it" some nights. If he dogs it in games, what's he like in practice? I just have a feeling Nate doesn't want him here. Nate's not dumb, so he's not going to provoke Darius. What good would that do? It would hurt his trade value (among other things). 
Nate's a hustle guy. He likes hardnosed guys who bust their tails. I think he's tried to get Darius to buy into his style because he's had too. I think Nate would rather have a less talented, better on-ball defender, better shooter, of a SF. Maybe a guy like Shane Battier? Seems like someone like him would fit better into what Nate's trying to do. The Blazers are going to have to build around Zach. They aren't going to trade him, they can't. The best way to do that is by surrounding him with shooters and another (half-court) perimeter play maker. While Miles is good in transition, his strength in the half-court is posting up, not facing up. If you can't get a guy who can create, the next best thing is a guy like Battier who can at least knock down open shots. It looks like we may already have a few playmakers at PG anyways.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

Hap said:


> just say no to quentin richardson.


I agree that the original quentin richardson rumor is very bad for us, but my idea lets us get rid of Ruben's salary as well (I'm a bit surprised that it supposedly works without his salary) and gives us some decent young players and draft picks as compensation.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

gambitnut said:


> I agree that the original quentin richardson rumor is very bad for us, but my idea lets us get rid of Ruben's salary as well (I'm a bit surprised that it supposedly works without his salary) and gives us some decent young players and draft picks as compensation.


richardson isn't a decent young player. He's young, he's a player, but he's not a decent young player.

Steve Nash couldn't even get this guy to shoot north of 40%, what makes you think it'd happen on a team without a proven PG, or a team void of offensive threats?

I mean for gods sake, he shot 35% from 3, and he had Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire AND Steve Nash to feed off of!


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

Hap said:


> richardson isn't a decent young player. He's young, he's a player, but he's not a decent young player.
> 
> Steve Nash couldn't even get this guy to shoot north of 40%, what makes you think it'd happen on a team without a proven PG, or a team void of offensive threats?
> 
> I mean for gods sake, he shot 35% from 3, and he had Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire AND Steve Nash to feed off of!


I wasn't including Richardson in the decent young players, but I guess you could depending on how broad your definitions of "decent" and "young" are.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Miles would be the last player i would want to trade from the team.The only way i would do it would be Miles Theo,Ruben for Penny,Frye 2006 first round pick.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

OK, if this trade goes through, it's equivelent to the Blazers throwing in the towel for the year. Still, it doesn't really put the team far enough under the cap to be significant - unless of course, the team has another deal in place that would send Ruben out of town.

Then I read this in the Detroit Free Press about Kelvin Cato:



> Kelvin Cato, an injured forward acquired in the Darko Milicic deal, won't be waived immediately by the Pistons, though he might be used as trade bait...
> 
> Cato could remain with the team awhile, or the Pistons might use him and his expiring $8.6-million contract to get another point guard before the NBA's trade deadline, which is Thursday...
> 
> But Dumars said the Milicic trade was not a salary cap move.


Blake + Patterson for Cato? Just a thought....


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Storyteller said:


> Blake + Patterson for Cato? Just a thought....


Storyteller, have you taken a look at how far under the cap we'd be if this happened in addition to the other rumor?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Here is a thought.....got this idea last week and even sent it to Courtside who said I was crazy. So here is your change to rip HOWIE on the boards too.

Portland trades:
Theo Ratliff
Darius Miles
Sebastian Telfair (HUGE PR move for the Knicks)
Detroit's 1st round pick (sweetner)

New York Trades:
Anfernee Hardaway
David Lee
Channing Frye

Could you live with a deal like this? Would New York do it? Does Portland really need 3 point guards?

Please, be gentle!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

HOWIE said:


> Here is a thought.....got this idea last week and even sent it to Courtside who said I was crazy. So here is your change to rip HOWIE on the boards too.
> 
> Portland trades:
> Theo Ratliff
> ...



howie, i think yuo can get off the "PR" aspect when it comes to Telfair. If Marbury ain't selling out the Garden, why would Telfair? and better yet, why would the blazers have to include Telfair? Why SHOULD they include him? 

NY would just then have 2 short PG's, of which one's contract is for a 3 more years, and Telfair who wouldnt' then get many minutes and probably "isn't a Larry Brown" PG?

Seems to me, the whole idea of trading any of our PG's is rather foolish.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

e_blazer1 said:


> Storyteller, have you taken a look at how far under the cap we'd be if this happened in addition to the other rumor?


About $10 million by my count.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> howie, i think yuo can get off the "PR" aspect when it comes to Telfair. If Marbury ain't selling out the Garden, why would Telfair? and better yet, why would the blazers have to include Telfair? Why SHOULD they include him?
> 
> NY would just then have 2 short PG's, of which one's contract is for a 3 more years, and Telfair who wouldnt' then get many minutes and probably "isn't a Larry Brown" PG?
> 
> Seems to me, the whole idea of trading any of our PG's is rather foolish.


But, but, but.....Telfair is a legend in New York, didn't you see his movie?


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Storyteller said:


> About $10 million by my count.


So, probably enough to re-sign Joel, but not enough to get another FA.

I really like Joel, but it seems like we'd be giving up an awful lot of pieces just to make re-signing him a bit more of a possibility.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

It would appear that New York is only interested in names, they don't care about winning. Look at the names that keep coming up. Why is it so hard to believe that they wouldn't be interested in Telfair? It is all about the names, they don't care about winning. Personally I like my trade as I feel it would only help Jack develop and gets Portland some size. Daruis and Richardson can head bob together again, I'm sure Spike Lee gets into it too.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

HOWIE said:


> But, but, but.....Telfair is a legend in New York, didn't you see his movie?


Yah, but neither blake nor jack has show enough to justify trading him (none of the 3 have actually, imho). The only way you trade one of the 3 (well, not the ONLY way) is if what you get in return is part of a big time deal. I hope we get frye, but I dont think he's enough to justify trading basically 3 starters, of which the PG has the potential to be the best PG on our team.

Throwing in Telfair AND a pick (even if it's the last pick in the draft) is basically asking NY to screw us.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> Yah, but neither blake nor jack has show enough to justify trading him (none of the 3 have actually, imho). The only way you trade one of the 3 (well, not the ONLY way) is if what you get in return is part of a big time deal. I hope we get frye, but I dont think he's enough to justify trading basically 3 starters, of which the PG has the potential to be the best PG on our team.
> 
> Throwing in Telfair AND a pick (even if it's the last pick in the draft) is basically *asking NY to screw us.*


Well lets make sure they buy us dinner first! 

My email to Courtside listed off that we are very short handed up front and Fyre and Lee would be a nice addition to the team even at the expense of Telfair. IMO Portland can only really afford to take two players in the draft, how young do we really have to get?

I throw Telfair out there because out of our three point guards he would be the one New York might bite at. The question that I am asking myself is...... Is Telfair or Jack a Nate point guard? They both have their strenghts and faults, but I am inclinde to go with Blake at this point. Thus my idea.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> The key question is whether the players being offered to the Knicks fit coach Larry Brown's requirements and which other players the Knicks might have to add to a deal. *Center Eddy Curry and rookie forward Channing Frye have been identified by Brown as the future cornerstones of the franchise*, but there is interest around the league in rookie forward David Lee and shooting guard Jamal Crawford.


It would appear that New York doesn't want to part with Frye, but he would be a nice fit in Portland wouldn't he? So I guess my idea is nothing but a pipe dream.......well pipes have to have dreams too!!!!


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Not a very exciting trade proposal from Portland's perspective.

Miles is arguably Portland's best player. Miles' contract is within the range of reasonableness. Not a bargain, but not obscene either.

You can say he is not a Nate type player. You can say we have lots of small forwards, so he won't be much missed. Regardless, he is still a chip, something of value, and we need to maximize any value we have.

Is this a pick your poison type of trade?

If it is Theo & Miles for Expiring Contract and Lee (late pick rookie),

that means the Blazers are essentially giving Miles to the Knicks so they will eat Theo's contract. Mile's is the cost to erase a mistake the Blazers made with Theo. By the way, most on this board noted that it was a terrible mistake the moment the extension details went public.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that if this deal occurs, that the Blazers are able to make any other moves needed that will give them the cap room required to match or beat other offers and thus retain Joel. 

Let's also assume that not making this move means losing Joel is very likely.

Let's also assume that the Blazers end up with a rookie Forward this summer as the BPA with their pick, either Gay, Morrison, Aldridge, or Bargnani. I will use Morrison in the lineups to amuse Zagsfan.

No deal: Portland frontline for 06-07: Miles, Zach, Theo (Patterson, Morrison, Khryapa, Outlaw, Ha)
Done deal: Portland frontline for 06-07: Morrison, Zach, Joel (Khryapa, Outlaw, Ha, Lee)

Either way (unless we get Aldridge) we are going to be very thin in the paint. Even if Morrison or Gay are much better than Miles, they will be rookies, so their impact on the Blazer win total in their rookie campaign will likely be small. Unless either frontline gets significantly improved guard play, either team will suck again. I don't see Miles/Theo vs. Joel/Lee making much difference.

Leading either roster to the lotto and the Blazers big break (fantasy time here) as they win the Oden sweepstakes. In which case, which frontline on the 07-08 roster looks better set for the future?

Both have Oden. Both have this summers pick - likely a forward. Both have Zach. Both have whichever of Outlaw, Khryapa or Monia that we keep.

Difference could be: Miles and Theo (on the last year of his deal) vs. Joel and Lee.

Keeping Miles means we have a SF glut. Keeping Joel means we have two Cs who want to start. Then again, chances are we won't win the Oden lotto, and will need Joel.

Like I said, not a very exciting trade. It might be one of those things you have to do. Like a colonoscopy. Doesn't make it any less depressing or uncomfortable.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

HOWIE said:


> It would appear that New York doesn't want to part with Frye, but he would be a nice fit in Portland wouldn't he? So I guess my idea is nothing but a pipe dream.......well pipes have to have dreams too!!!!


Darius was said to be a cornerstone too..

as for what is a "nate" pg, we've gone through this to death. None of the 3 point guards on this team are exactly showing they're the one. So we can't really say we need to trade one of the three, beacuse the other 2 are closer to what the "nate pg mold" is.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

somehow I doubt that a trade will take place until at the earliest, tuesday (monday is presidents day).

so that means we gotta argue about stupid pointless things for another 3 more days.

guh..

at least if we had a baseball team the pitchers and catchers have reported to spring training.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Masbee said:


> Like I said, not a very exciting trade. It might be one of those things you have to do. Like a colonoscopy. Doesn't make it any less depressing or uncomfortable.


I don't know Masbee, I haven't been scoped but I'd imagine that's a lot less fun then reading your post and weighing the various scenarios. I'd disagree somewhat that the two futures Miles/Theo vs one with Lee/Joel are more or less the same from a competitive standpoint. Having Theo and Ha as a center combo seems like a very bad idea IMO. I have little faith in Theo's ability to stay healthy... in my mind he's practically retired already... when was the last time that he was truely healthy??? Spring 2004? His health and a lack of belief in Lee is why I see this hyothetical as... Miles vs Joel.

Joel has wrestled with his heath throughout his career as well. Hopefully management is aware of how well he takes care of himself and what the shape his knees and back are in to best gauge whether he is worth investing in for the next 5 years or so. If it's felt that overall he's good to go, then I think he's pretty obviously the better choise between the two. Decent centers are hard to come by... it's a lot harder to find a decent 5 then a good 3. Dude is 26, 27 in October. As long as Joel stays reasonably healthy and playing at the level he's been there will be no shortage of demand for his services should the team luck into winning the Oden sweepstakes.

At 24 years old, how many major knee surgeries has Darius had? While his skills do seem to be coming along, his athletism has noticably taken a hit from the injuries. He's got a great frame and is an above average starter, but is he really worth more then the only decent big the club has? I've a lot more confidence that the club could replace him with a quality player then Joel.

btw... Aldridge over Morrison :biggrin: 

STOMP


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

The only thing that would bother me about sending Miles away is Nate's sudden infatuation with Charles "I don't belong in the NBA" Smith. I mean seriously, WTF????


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

This trade is bull. Darius Miles is the best player on our team, and Theo is extremly valuable as well.

If the Knicks didn't include Frye, Nash would not even consider this trade. John Nash is not one to be low balled.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Yega1979 said:


> If the Knicks didn't include Frye, Nash would not even consider this trade. John Nash is not one to be low balled.


Is this a new insult? I would have thought being low balled would be manly, a sign of great size and weight.

But as regards the trade, sadly we're not being lowballed. What it would be is an admission of failure on Nash's part - Miles and Theo were both his acquisitions AND contract extensions.

And the Knicks are not going to include Frye, so give up on that one. We'll be lucky if they include Lee.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

Yega1979 said:


> This trade is bull. Darius Miles is the best player on our team, and Theo is extremly valuable as well.
> 
> If the Knicks didn't include Frye, Nash would not even consider this trade. John Nash is not one to be low balled.


Yega, you need to face the truth. It's been a long time since the Blazers made a trade purely for economic reasons. It's not a lot of fun for the fans. Of course, David Lee won't help our basketball team more than Miles & Theo in terms of wins/losses this year. But, we've had too many SF's for too long. And Theo is grossly overpaid, old, offensively challenged, and injury prone. Of course all of us wish we could plug Rube in instead of Miles . . . wouldn't get it done. When other teams look at our roster, they aren't seeing much value - obviously. Miles may be the exception. The other unfortunate thing is that (IMO) Zeek is overestimating the value of Frye. I'm sure he's aware of how people view his ability to Manage a roster - he's not letting Frye go w/o getting a favorable return. Just bad timing - too many people have cleaned his clock and now he's leary of getting had again. I'm not crazy about Lee, but he's okay. We are going to be one bad, bad basketball team for 30 more games. At least I hope so. We are at least 1 more lottery player away (whether it's Aldridge, Morrison, Gay, etc) from looking like a winner.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Basically you make a trade if things aren't going well and so far it hasn't! A change needs to be done as soon as possible! Man of you fellow Blazer fans picked the Hornets to finish with the worst record in the West, you thought this because you believed Nash when he passed up on Paul and this led you to believe he wasn't that good, well Paul has currently lead his team to home-court advantage!


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

meru said:


> Is this a new insult? I would have thought being low balled would be manly, a sign of great size and weight.


Or of short legs...

barfo


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Hail Masbee! Good take. The deal won't hurt us, if any.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

SolidBandwagoner3 said:


> Basically you make a trade if things aren't going well and so far it hasn't! A change needs to be done as soon as possible! Man of *you fellow Blazer fans* picked the Hornets to finish with the worst record in the West, *you thought this because you* believed Nash when he passed up on Paul and *this led you to believe* he wasn't that good, well Paul has currently lead his team to home-court advantage!


:rofl:














And, no, the Hornets do not have home-court advantage in the playoffs. They are the 6th seed--and currently 11 games back from being in position for home-court advantage.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

CanJohno said:


> :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the playoffs started today, the Hornets would play the Nuggets. The Hornets have a better record and would have home-court advantage.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

SolidGuy3 said:


> If the playoffs started today, the Hornets would play the Nuggets. The Hornets have a better record and would have home-court advantage.


Uhhh... the Nuggets would be the winners of the NW Division and, therefore, the #3 seed.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

CanJohno said:


> Uhhh... the Nuggets would be the winners of the NW Division and, therefore, the #3 seed.


Yes but the Hornets would get home-court advantage.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

kaydow said:


> ]
> 
> 
> Wasn't Lee a McDonald's All American? I watched him play quite a bit at Florida. Decent Athlete. Maybe a little stiff, but he's got a decent touch. I don't know . . . he's a b/u. That's my take anyways. We're not looking at a 20/10 guy here. I don't like the trade, but I'd do it (if that makes sense) Theo's contract sucks, we obviously aren't getting other quality offers for Miles. I just don't have a good feeling about Miles-Nate.


Yes he was a Big Mac high school player....He actually won the Slam Dunk competition that year (beating James White, arguably the best athlete in college basketball)....but McDonalds games don't hold much weight with me....because Joe Forte, Chris Burgess, Shavlik Randolph and Aaron Brooks were also on that team...while guys like Adam Morrison, Steve Nash and Ben Wallace struggled desperately to get a D I scholarship....


This isn't taking anything away from Lee, I think he will be a solid pro...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

crandc said:


> I have to say "how are the mighty fallen". No, I don't mean the Blazers, I mean Penny Hardaway. When he came into the league as the #3 pick, Golden State traded him for Chris Webber and also gave Orlando 3 1st round draft picks (and since GSW went into the tank they were all high picks). The story line was that Hardaway and Shaquille O'Neal would be the new Magic and Kareem. They did get to the finals once and to the ECF but then O'Neal bolts. Still, Hardaway was a perennial all star and a first team all NBA.
> Now? People are debating whether we even want him for half a season and the Knicks are trying to get rid of him to anyone who wants cap relief.
> Sad.
> I don't cry over people who wrecked their careers by being jerks (see: Sprewell, Latrell and Rider, Isaiah) but a more or less decent person who had a load of talent but got killed by injuries, like Hardaway or Grant Hill, I can feel some sympathy for.
> But hell, they still have a lot more $ than I'll ever see.



Yep, I remember back in those days when Penny was one of the most marketable players in the league....With those 'Little Penny' commercials and such.....

Heck, I remember it like it was yesterday, I was in the 5th grade running around the playgrounds chasing girls in my Penny Hardaway tennis shoes....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blazer Bert said:


> I agree P.D. and crandc. Like Ed said, this trade would make us worse this year and next year. We would be trading two starting quality players for one backup. It would save Paul Allen a lot of money. It would ensure a high lotto pick next year (which would be a good thing). Which means another year of the same *****ing and moaning and manic depressive mood swings that have characterized this board the past few months.
> 
> I like gambitnut's trade a lot better.


Yea, but imagine this lineup 3 years down the road...

Telfair
Webster
Morrison
Powe
Oden

With Khrapya, Jack, Millsap, Pryzbilla and Outlaw coming off the bench...


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Yes but the Hornets would get home-court advantage.


Link?


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Personally, I am getting to actually dislike Chris Paul. Not his fault, he's done nothing wrong so far as I can see. But we cannot discuss a single damn thing on this board without Solid Guy coming along and saying for the 108257320976236215th time that Nash sucks because he did not draft Chris Paul.

Look, if someone wants to start a Chris Paul Fan Club be my guest, but do we have to drag him into EVERY thread???? I for one am tired of hearing about him. How many titles has Chris Paul won?


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

crandc said:


> Personally, I am getting to actually dislike Chris Paul. Not his fault, he's done nothing wrong so far as I can see. But we cannot discuss a single damn thing on this board without Solid Guy coming along and saying for the 108257320976236215th time that Nash sucks because he did not draft Chris Paul.
> 
> Look, if someone wants to start a Chris Paul Fan Club be my guest, but do we have to drag him into EVERY thread???? I for one am tired of hearing about him. How many titles has Chris Paul won?


 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: 

(I won't use "titles won" as a measuring stick, but I'm right there with you on every other point)


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> Hail Masbee! Good take. The deal won't hurt us, if any.


{Presents hand}

Thank you. However, I never really established that the deal wouldn't hurt us. I worked out that it didn't seem we would significantly worse next season, and that the roster might rationalize easier the season after that - *as long as the assumptions are true* - not doing the trade means we lose Joel (for nothing), doing the trade means we keep him.

I don't know that those assumptions are mostly true. I think they might be. Requires another thread working it out.

What I do know is true, is that this trade would be a bitter pill that only reminds of the bad strategy and poor execution of the Blazers that has painted us into this corner and I would be disappointed to get so little in return for (arguably) our best player, and wondering if a better GM would be able to extract more value as it hardly seems possible to get less out of it.

However, I don't want to get wrapped up in sunk costs. Our roster is what it is today. Can't change that now. If our "best" player and Center only get us an ending contract and a very low pick rookie, and that is the most that can be had, it is what it is. If the deal helps the team, you do the deal.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Would making these two trades one with New York and one with Detroit really be worth it? Sure it clears out a lot of cap for next season, but would it be an addition by subtraction or just a step backwards? I surely would give Portland a shot at the number one pick and possibly another FA signing worth something. Thoughts?


*To Detroit *








*Sergei Monia*
Salary: $1,016,400 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 3.3 REB: 2.2 AST: 0.8 PER: 6.33








*Ruben Patterson*
Salary: $6,353,200 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 11.2 REB: 3.3 AST: 1.3 PER: 17.32 

*To New York*








*Theo Ratliff*
Salary: $11,666,666 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 4.6 REB: 5.4 AST: 0.5 PER: 12.72








*Darius Miles*
Salary: $7,250,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 17.5 REB: 5.8 AST: 2.5 PER: 14.29

*To Portland*








*Kelvin Cato*
Salary: $8,640,000 Years Remaining: 0
PTS: 3.8 REB: 2.7 AST: 0.1 PER: 9.58








*Anfernee Hardaway*
Salary: $15,750,000 Years Remaining: 0
PTS: 2.5 REB: 2.5 AST: 2.0 PER: 2.16








*David Lee*
Salary: $861,360 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.5 REB: 4.5 AST: 0.7 PER: 14.39


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Miles is worth much more than Lee. Hopefully. I think we will continue to hold out for Frye if Miles is included in any NY trade.


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## Blazer Maven (Sep 27, 2005)

HOWIE said:


> Would making these two trades one with New York and one with Detroit really be worth it? Sure it clears out a lot of cap for next season, but would it be an addition by subtraction or just a step backwards? I surely would give Portland a shot at the number one pick and possibly another FA signing worth something. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> *To Detroit *
> ...


Giving away Miles and Monia, while not replacing Theo would be at least five steps back!

Outlaw is not ready to take over the 3 spot, and Nate thinks VK is better at the 4, so I guess we are betting our franchise on Aam (no D) Morrison?

Letting Miles play out the rest of the season will increase is trade value. Giving him away now for nothing is sheer idiocy!


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

chris paul keeps getting hurt and rushing back its taking time off his career and keeping him on the bench for his greatiness he is a fragile flower that the media has been drooling over but soon they will see how brittle.


as for the above trade he better get a draft pick


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

SolidGuy3 said:


> If the playoffs started today, the Hornets would play the Nuggets. The Hornets have a better record and would have home-court advantage.





Chris Sheridan said:


> HOUSTON -- The two best teams in the Western Conference are on course to meet in the second round of the playoffs, which is a problem.
> 
> Even David Stern recognizes as much, which is why his league is taking a closer look at changing the postseason seeding format to prevent similar scenarios from unfolding in the future.
> 
> *Under rules implemented when the league expanded from four divisions to six last season, the top three seeds go to each of the division leaders, with the fourth through eighth seeds going to the teams with the next best records in the conference*.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2335631


Like I said:



CanJohno said:


> Uhhh... the Nuggets would be the winners of the NW Division and, therefore, the #3 seed.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Seeding only matters for matchups. Home court advantage is based on record. If one of you is arguing Denver would be the #3 seed while the other is arguing they'd be on the road in the first round... you're both right.

I don't think that there was any pwnage going on there. Edit: upon re-reading the posts... it appears that CanJohno was the one pwned. And doubly so since he busted out the "pwned" graphic incorrectly.

Ed O.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Ed O said:


> Seeding only matters for matchups. Home court advantage is based on record. If one of you is arguing Denver would be the #3 seed while the other is arguing they'd be on the road in the first round... you're both right.
> 
> I don't think that there was any pwnage going on there. Edit: upon re-reading the posts... it appears that CanJohno was the one pwned. And doubly so since he busted out the "pwned" graphic incorrectly.
> 
> Ed O.


So, if the playoffs started today, the seedings would be:

1. Dallas
2. Phoenix
3. Denver
4. San Antonio
5. LA Clippers
6. NO/OK
7. Memphis
8. LA Lakers

Correct?

So, you're saying that New Orleans would have home-court advantage over the Nuggets, in the first round--even even though the Nuggets would be the 3rd seed?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

CanJohno said:


> Correct?


I'm too tired to look up the standings, so I'll take your word for it, yes 



> So, you're saying that New Orleans would have home-court advantage over the Nuggets, in the first round--even even though the Nuggets would be the 3rd seed?


Yes. 

Ed O.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Ed O said:


> I'm too tired to look up the standings, so I'll take your word for it, yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. Well, I stand corrected. :angel:


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