# it's official Cartwright is gone! (merged)



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

*Cartwright gone Pete Meyers in*

Official... Score 670am reports...


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

They said Myers will take over for now, as Paxson looks for a permanent replacement.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*it's official Cartwright is gone!*

Cartwright Relieved as Head Coach


Chicago Bulls Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations John Paxson today announced that Bill Cartwright has been relieved of his duties as head coach of the NBA franchise. 

In a statement released this morning, Paxson said: 

"I knew there would be difficult times in this job, but none is harder than replacing a friend. I have known Bill Cartwright as a teammate, as a colleague and as a friend for nearly as long as I've been in professional basketball. I admire his hard work and his efforts and loyalty here. He will always be a Bull. 

The decision to relieve Bill at this time was a basketball decision. The team is underperforming and we have to find ways to win, period. I am not satisfied with the team's start this season and changes have to be made. This represents the first change, but not necessarily the last." 

Paxson said he expects to name Cartwright's replacement within the next week, but said Pete Myers will be coaching the Bulls in the interim. The Bulls will play their first game under Interim Head Coach Pete Myers on Tuesday night in Dallas. 

For more on Cartwright and Myers and to read the full release, visit Bulls.com or click here now.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Now why in Hades is Pete Myers the interim coach? Maybe Pax shoulda fired himself while he was at it....


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

bye bye bill.

i can't believe that pete myers is the coach. i know its not permanent... but pete myers is one goofy man.

oh well. he'll take a couple of west-coast style beatdowns and we'll have a new coach.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

He's done?
Well I'll be damned.

What do we expect from Myers?


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

I guess Myers is alright from an interim coach


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*bulls.com link*

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/cartwright_relieved_031124.html


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## robg (Jul 19, 2002)

WOW, cartwright is gone, I cant believe it, well I cant believe he's gone so soon. And the funniest thing is that Pete "thug" Myers is the temp. coach. I'm just kidding about the thug part.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> The decision to relieve Bill at this time was a basketball decision. The team is underperforming and we have to find ways to win, period. I am not satisfied with the team’s start this season and changes have to be made. *This represents the first change, but not necessarily the last.”*



Looks like this could be a trade...


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

If Paxson was set on replacing Cartwright all along, I wish he'd gone after Rick Carlisle this summer. I suppose he wanted to give Bill a chance this season, though. But now our options are limited.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Carlisle would have been great, I agree...

How long you think Meyers will be coaching for now?


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

BC wasnt a good coach, but he is a great person and a big part of the Bulls history. i will always respect that and him as a person. But this was a change that needed to be made and he wasnt getting the effort out of these guys. 

Pete Myers? what the heck is Pax smoking? Paxs statement about BC was pure class. But Pete Myers? he never struck me as an intelligent or knowledgable player or person. He is fiery. Maybe the club could use that. But he is got to be the least prepared person in the history of the NBA ever to be a headcoach. Pax better have some ideas on a headcoach. It wouldnt surprise me if he takes over at some point


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

You all think BC will stay with the Bulls' organization in some type of capacity??


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Clinton Boswell</b>!
> BC wasnt a good coach, but he is a great person and a big part of the Bulls history. i will always respect that and him as a person. But this was a change that needed to be made and he wasnt getting the effort out of these guys.
> 
> Pete Myers? what the heck is Pax smoking? Paxs statement about BC was pure class. But Pete Myers? he never struck me as an intelligent or knowledgable player or person. He is fiery. Maybe the club could use that. But he is got to be the least prepared person in the history of the NBA ever to be a headcoach. Pax better have some ideas on a headcoach. It wouldnt surprise me if he takes over at some point



I agree...the gig should have gone to Ron Adams. More proof that Pax is inept also.


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nater</b>!
> If Paxson was set on replacing Cartwright all along, I wish he'd gone after Rick Carlisle this summer.


I agree, but his friendship with Cartwright won out. Pax HAD to see what Bill could do to start the year.


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> You all think BC will stay with the Bulls' organization in some type of capacity??



I hope so, he has earned the right to be a part of the team in some capacity

Ron Adams someone mentioned. Maybe should have been the guy. But the rumor is that the players dont like him much


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Clinton Boswell</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well I hope so too, but do you think he may go to some other team to be an assistant?


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

Krause is on the Score at this moment.

Apparently the "No Excuses" mantra only applies to current Bulls employees.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nater</b>!
> Krause is on the Score at this moment.
> 
> Apparently the "No Excuses" mantra only applies to current Bulls employees.


so whats Krause have to say?


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

This is hilarious. They want Krause to give his thoughts on available coaches, and he won't say anything because "it's Pax's job" and not his. :laugh:


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

I don't see this as necessarily changing anything in the short term but something had to be done... But Pete Myers??!!?? Pax needs to bring in somebody with some experience and credibility. I personally like Fratello. I don't think he's married to any particular offense and he's seems like the kind of coach who will taylor his offensive and defensive schemes around the players he has.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> so whats Krause have to say?


Well, he said that Bill never really had a chance this season, due to JayWill's situation, preseason injuries (Jalen, Eddy, & Tyson), etc.


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## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

Yeah i just heard that on ESPN radio, they also said Alonzo Mourning just retired


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

Everyone has their favorites. Carlisle and Fratello are good coaches, but not for this team. They, like Van Gundy, are control freaks who slow the game down to a halt and control every detail. I dont think this club needs that. Doc Rivers is a well known coach who allowed his players in orlando to freelance. We might need someone like him. But as some other poster has said, an out of the box type of guy, an unknown, a disciplinarian or someone who will allow us to move away from the past would be great. UNLESS OFCOURSE MJ WANTS TO COACH (OR PIP AS A PLAYER COACH, WHICH WOULDNT SURPRISE ME. Otherwise, lets change the direction that this franchise is going. Someone mentioned Bill Laimbeer, another person mentioned Michael Cooper. Those would be good choices. Let me throw a couple of other names out there. 

Donnie Nelson
Rolando Blackman
Rick Mahorn
Scott Skiles
Paul Pressey
and here is a name for all you old Bulls fans from the mid 80s
Elton Turner


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I'm glad we can put this behind us. Myers was given the intern job because he has the longest tenure...its a good choice for not getting anyone's panties in a bunch.


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## Zeos (Jun 4, 2003)

The key term here is _interim_ head coach. Expect the _new_ head coach to be named some time next week.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Pete was named because he was most definitely not going to be the next head coach. Someone like Ron Adams wouldn't want to be in a squishy, temporary position. I could really see him making a good head coach.


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

I dont think anybody here knows anything about Ron Adams. The rumor is that he doesnt get along with the players


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Wasn't Pete Interm when Floyd was fired as well? Always Brides maid, never Bride...


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zeos</b>!
> The key term here is _interim_ head coach. Expect the _new_ head coach to be named some time next week.
> 
> I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Pete was named because he was most definitely not going to be the next head coach. Someone like Ron Adams wouldn't want to be in a squishy, temporary position. I could really see him making a good head coach.


yep, the score just said a new head coach should be assigned within the next week... Pete will only coach 3 or 4 games I think...


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> Wasn't Pete Interm when Floyd was fired as well? Always Brides maid, never Bride...


Actually I think it was Bill Berry right?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually I think it was Bill Berry right?


You are right, 

Bill Berry was also the longest tenured coach on the staff. It's probably just business practice for once you axe a coach.


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

and the first one to get fired. Bye bye Pete


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I really thought a trade would happen before a firing of BC but I still hold out hope of a Toronto trade maybe today? As for new head coach I will be shocked if Doug Collins is not the man. Seems like they would go in that direction.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

I respect BC but he was a terrible coach. :yes:


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

My guess is Pax will force a trade, good or bad, just to shake things up. I dont think Pax can escape this mix without alot of the blame either


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

I suspect that Pete Myers may have a two game tenure. If we had made Adams interim coach, then it probably would be hard to keep him if we hired another coach later on. And it would have been bad form for Paxson to be interviewing a lot of coaches while Cartwright was still at the helm.

Myers is a good, professional choice for interim coach.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Clinton Boswell</b>!
> I dont think anybody here knows anything about Ron Adams. The rumor is that he doesnt get along with the players


Adams is the only coach I have seen really talking to players. They seem to play better after getting an earful too.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

David Aldrige brought up Doug Collins because of his close relationship with Paxson, but he also said Collins is signed with TNT for this whole season so Myers might be the coach for the rest of the season.


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Adams is the only coach I have seen really talking to players. They seem to play better after getting an earful too.


He is said to not be popular with the players. He may very well be the coach, but does anyone really know anything about him for real?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> I suspect that Pete Myers may have a two game tenure. If we had made Adams interim coach, then it probably would be hard to keep him if we hired another coach later on. And it would have been bad form for Paxson to be interviewing a lot of coaches while Cartwright was still at the helm.
> 
> Myers is a good, professional choice for interim coach.


Exactly.

On to financial matters.

Firing the coach is a lot cheaper than taking on a new player who's worth a big contract, eh? ;-)


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I am very much against this move cartwright should still be coach and the team will likely go into a horrible spiral with myers at the helm 

there is no one out there to hire as coach except old retreads who have failed time and time again 

doc rivers,mike fratello , doug collins c'mon 

fratello's big achievement is he is the 'Czar of the telestrator'

doc just got fired for incompetence and doug collins was last seen crying because he had lost control of his team 

we were much better off with bill cartwright


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## Crawscrew (Jul 15, 2002)

Isaiah Thomas...thats all I have to say


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Crawscrew</b>!
> Isaiah Thomas...thats all I have to say


he's better than the 3 i mentioned but knowing how posters of this board love to 2nd guess his head will be called for in a couple of weeks


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Wouldn't be at all surprised if Paxson does the same thing Krause did a couple years ago. Krause named Berry as interim and then gave the job to Cartwright, another member of the staff. This time Myers plays the Berry role and, maybe, Adams takes over the team after a couple games.

Pax has said he wants a discipline guy. Pax has characterized Adams as a discipline guy.

Net, don't be surprised if Adams is named head coach within the next week.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> I am very much against this move cartwright should still be coach and the team will likely go into a horrible spiral with myers at the helm
> 
> there is no one out there to hire as coach except old retreads who have failed time and time again
> ...


Two points.

There may be a rallying effect behind the new coach. This move may squeak out a win or two on the rest of the road trip. The players have a little extra incentive to try to prove to someone new that they belong and belong in a specific role.

There's one ex-bull out there with as great a basketball IQ as there is. He's also done a decent job of making a bad team into something better.

Michael Jordan.

Coach? Player coach? Both are possibilities.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Two points.
> ...


No way. Did you see what happened to the Wizards the last two years? I don't want our Cs Kwamied.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Isiah was awful in Indiana.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Jordan would be the absolute worst hire for a head coach of the Bulls. I'd much rather have Isaiah Thomas (and I can't stand the guy) over Jordan. He may have been the greatest player ever, but beyond that he hasn't shown one iota of ability without having the basketball in his hands. (i.e. - he can't coach!)


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Two points.
> ...


Oh I hope so DaBullz, i really do. As for his bashing of Kwame, lets just say the kid deserved it. If you cant turn up your game after getting rocked by a legend, then you probably will never have the motivation to succeed. If our kids cant take that kind of heat, then they have to go too


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> No way. Did you see what happened to the Wizards the last two years? I don't want our Cs Kwamied.


Yeah. More wins than the Bulls - almost 2x the wins.

Think about how bad the situation was in D.C. before Jordan got there, and the parallels to our current situation.

They had vets with big contracts who weren't helping them win. Those guys are gone, the whole team is new, and they're much better off than they were.

Paxson is obviously the GM, so Jordan wouldn't have the say in personnel moves. He'd certainly have influence, though.

I don't get the "Kwamied" reference - Kwamie Brown can't be labeled a bust yet.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Clinton Boswell</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh I hope so DaBullz, i really do. As for his bashing of Kwame, lets just say the kid deserved it. If you cant turn up your game after getting rocked by a legend, then you probably will never have the motivation to succeed. If our kids cant take that kind of heat, then they have to go too


The last thing a sensitive 19 year old needs is to be "rocked" by MJ. Maybe Kwame is just not good... but they will never know due to the abuse MJ gave him.

Also, the Wizards could not even make the playoffs under the tutelage of MJeff.

MJ being associated with the team would set this franchise back another 5 years, IMO. He's not a good GM. He's not a good player anymore. He does not seem to have the patience to be a coach.

It would be a very good business decision, short run for the Bulls however.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I would have hoped he had a pretty good idea of who he wanted before he made the move. Why not just wait a couple of games and use it to hire the guy you actually want instead of messing around with Pete Meyers for a game or two.

This looks like desperation and impatience. I'd prefer him to take his time and get it right.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Paxson is obviously the GM, so Jordan wouldn't have the say in personnel moves. He'd certainly have influence, though.
> ...


MJ needs to be in charge. You bring him on, he's in charge, no matter what his title is. And if he isn't in charge, he'll do whatever it takes to get there. That's his nature.

Kwamied means verbally bashing a young player you are trying to develop in the grand quest for 40 wins and a first round exit.

You and I have different ideas on what the goals of this team should be... let's not go down this road again please  I need to get some work done!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> Jordan would be the absolute worst hire for a head coach of the Bulls. I'd much rather have Isaiah Thomas (and I can't stand the guy) over Jordan. He may have been the greatest player ever, but beyond that he hasn't shown one iota of ability without having the basketball in his hands. (i.e. - he can't coach!)


I'm not sure the Bulls are interested in Jordan for his coaching expertise. Maybe he'll prove to be a great coach. Maybe he'll be a dud. Nobody knows for sure.

What Jordan would do as coach is create a lot of good will with the fans. Put butts in the seats.

What Jordan would do as coach is to buy the team time. We can lose for the rest of the season and nobody would complain about it much. And it gives Pax the opportunity to look at head coaches who get fired by other teams in the offseason.


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

Sensitive players dont make it usually. Either you have the heart of a lion and succeed or your a pansy and dont. Jordan tried to light a fire under a kid who didnt and would never have it. And if our kids couldnt take his heat, how can we ever expect them to come through in a game 7 on the road in a tough environment? What jordan said was not justified, but he cut through all the crap quick and found out the Kwame will never succeed. Not cause he doesnt have the skills or body or atheletic ability, but because he doesnt have it between the ears. Same thing with Brad Sellers. Jordan for coach would be a step in the right direction. We would find out right away who has it and who doesnt


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> MJ needs to be in charge. You bring him on, he's in charge, no matter what his title is. And if he isn't in charge, he'll do whatever it takes to get there. That's his nature.
> ...


So... Calling Eddy soft isn't bashing him? I think he's been Kwamied as much as Kwame has...

As for the different goals we have, hiring Jordan would fit YOUR goals much more than mine, unless he comes back as a player.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Clinton Boswell</b>!
> Sensitive players dont make it usually. Either you have the heart of a lion and succeed or your a pansy and dont. Jordan tried to light a fire under a kid who didnt and would never have it. And if our kids couldnt take his heat, how can we ever expect them to come through in a game 7 on the road in a tough environment? What jordan said was not justified, but he cut through all the crap quick and found out the Kwame will never succeed. Not cause he doesnt have the skills or body or atheletic ability, but because he doesnt have it between the ears. Same thing with Brad Sellers. Jordan for coach would be a step in the right direction. We would find out right away who has it and who doesnt


That's not true at the age of 19. You can develop of heart of a lion over time.... as you build confidence. You don't want to ruin these kids at the age of 20 for no reason than finishing with 40 wins instead of 35.

Pippen would not have responded well to that treatment at the age of 20. Neither would Kukoc. There are many young players who don't respond to the Bobby Knight style. I don't think Eddy Curry would respond to this treatment.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Clinton Boswell</b>!
> Sensitive players dont make it usually. Either you have the heart of a lion and succeed or your a pansy and dont. Jordan tried to light a fire under a kid who didnt and would never have it. And if our kids couldnt take his heat, how can we ever expect them to come through in a game 7 on the road in a tough environment? What jordan said was not justified, but he cut through all the crap quick and found out the Kwame will never succeed. Not cause he doesnt have the skills or body or atheletic ability, but because he doesnt have it between the ears. Same thing with Brad Sellers. Jordan for coach would be a step in the right direction. We would find out right away who has it and who doesnt


the thing is one of the reasons MJ wanted brown over curry and chandler was his attitude 

but MJ broke him anyway

there are some people who take to it and some people who dont and then there is kwame someone who thrived initially but over time wilted under the strain of what MJ was bringing 

i dont have a problem with how MJ gets results what i have a problem with is that he didn't know when to stop he has no idea when too much is enough and for that reason he shouldn't be a head coach


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Today is a good day. Well not for BC. But for me. BC getting fired...finally. Priceless.

And how can you be a bulls fan and be so negetive about Jordan? What he did with the wizards was pretty terrific. He set them up for years and years. All the while, taking them from a sub 20 win joke franchise to a team that goes out and competes every night, and has been in the playoff race for the last 2 seasons. I hate reading people try to cheapen what Jordan did with the Wizards. It's all reletive. And relative to where the wizards where before Jordan got there to where they were when he was dumped by that Jerk Polan, shows you that MJ is a good thing for a franchise.

So what if Kwame Brown is fragile? If he couldn't take the heat, he should have gone to school. He isn't showing much this season either. Ever think he deserved Jordan's wrath? Jordan can't stand fear and people that don't compete. Guess what? You don't find people like that on Championship squads. Jordan knows what it takes to build a champion. It's a shame his work in Washington was cut short before he was able to bring it to fruition.

You don't think some nights, having a coach like MJ kick Curry's butt wouldn't be a good thing?

Unlike Isiah and Larry Bird, I see MJ as a very hands-on coach.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> So... Calling Eddy soft isn't bashing him? I think he's been Kwamied as much as Kwame has...
> ...


There is calling someone soft... then there is the constant, harsh abuse that MJ levied on that team. Everyone on that squad was miserable last season and was glad he was gone this season. They were unable to develop their young players.... and may have lost all of them, except for maybe Etan.

The Wizards are respectable now because of Arenas, Hayes and Hughes. Not because of anything MJ did the last two seasons. 

So, no, hiring him would not fit my goals. He's shown that he is a crappy GM, that he can't tolerate developing players and that he's a player on a steep decline that can't keep his old butt on the bench.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

How is Kwame Brown broken?

He's a better defender than Curry or Chandler.

He's shown year-over-year improvement in minutes, FG%, rebounds, and PPG in each of his seasons (this season, so far).

And this season, he looks like he's really improved - especially over the last 5 games.


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> That's not true at the age of 19. You can develop of heart of a lion over time.... as you build confidence. You don't want to ruin these kids at the age of 20 for no reason than finishing with 40 wins instead of 35.
> ...


Pippen and Grant both responded well to it. So did Charles Oakley. brad sellers never did, and neither did Dennis Hopson. Jordan isnt ruining anyone, he is seeing who has it and who doesnt


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> i dont have a problem with how MJ gets results what i have a problem with is that he didn't know when to stop he has no idea when too much is enough and for that reason he shouldn't be a head coach


And it should be also noted that his approach did NOT get adequate results with Washington, either at the GM or player/coach level (MJ was as much the coach of that team as Doug).


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> Isiah was awful in Indiana.


whatever you think of his moves personally there is no denying what he accomplished 

1.their young players went from promising to producing 

2.reggie gracefully took a backseat

3.and the team as a whole improved without even missing the playoffs despite the turnover

to me he is a logical choice as he wasn't fire as most coaches are for failing miserably but out of GM's personal preference 

i would rather him than some banished also ran


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> whatever you think of his moves personally there is no denying what he accomplished
> ...


and the bulls right now are in a very similar position as the pacers were while thomas was coaching ...in this regard he is a proven commodity


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Sorry folks, MJ is too big to be the head coach of the Bulls. He's the greatest star the game has ever known. How can we expect him to take a job in which John Paxson could fire him?

When we see MJ resurface in the NBA it will be as (part) owner and managing partner of a franchise, probably with a hands-on role over player personnel. Any other role is too small for the man.


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## Chicago N VA (Oct 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> That's not true at the age of 19. You can develop of heart of a lion over time.... as you build confidence. You don't want to ruin these kids at the age of 20 for no reason than finishing with 40 wins instead of 35.
> ...


Kwame, I am sorry is soft.. You are at practice crying.. amongst men.. 

Hearing him all last year.. made me want to throw up... / he should have took his mentality to the college not the pro-game!!!

He obviously wasn't ready and still not proving anything as of yet.. who's holding him down now??????


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Clinton Boswell</b>!
> 
> 
> Pippen and Grant both responded well to it. So did Charles Oakley. brad sellers never did, and neither did Dennis Hopson. Jordan isnt ruining anyone, he is seeing who has it and who doesnt


hopson was the leading scorer on the nets before he was a bull ...he was ruined in chicago...as was any pg who liked to handle the ball


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think Jordan is probably a lot like his coach Dean Smith. And like a lot of UNC alums. I think Larry Brown and George Karl would have done the same things that Jordan did to Kwame.

I think some players may not respond to that type of treatment. But hey. not everyone is championship material. If Kwame wants to be an "okay" player on a bad team. Then by all means Jordan should pad his ego. But if Kwame wants to be an all-time great, which is what MJ had in mind when he drafted him, he's got to put in the work. And when you don't. When you don't want to compete. MJ sees that and he attacks.

Jordan would be perfect for where the bulls are at right now in their development. These kids are past the stage of coddling their psyches. They need someone who can yell at them a little bit. Maybe they need to hear the truth from their idol. because it's obvious they stopped listening to BC a longgg time ago.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Clinton Boswell</b>!
> 
> 
> Pippen and Grant both responded well to it. So did Charles Oakley. brad sellers never did, and neither did Dennis Hopson. Jordan isnt ruining anyone, he is seeing who has it and who doesnt


Jordan was a player then, and had more of a TMAC style influence over the team than what he had the last two season as coach of the Wizards. Doug Collins was the coach. So, Pippen and Grant didn't receive the MJ treatment that the young Wizards players were treated to the last two season.

Just look at how the team performed, and how the young players played. Its obvious. MJ was a failure in every regard other than making the Wizards and the NBA money.

Kwame is considered a bust around the NBA.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> whatever you think of his moves personally there is no denying what he accomplished
> ...


I agree. If Isiah could do the job here that he did with the Pacers, I would be all for it.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I think Jordan is probably a lot like his coach Dean Smith.  And like a lot of UNC alums. I think Larry Brown and George Karl would have done the same things that Jordan did to Kwame.
> 
> I think some players may not respond to that type of treatment. But hey. not everyone is championship material. If Kwame wants to be an "okay" player on a bad team. Then by all means Jordan should pad his ego. But if Kwame wants to be an all-time great, which is what MJ had in mind when he drafted him, he's got to put in the work. And when you don't. When you don't want to compete. MJ sees that and he attacks.
> ...


Maybe you are right. I just don't want to see what happened in Washington happen here. I don't care if the Bulls get 40 wins instead of 35 this season.

When he left that team, they didn't make the playoffs and it was scorched earth player development wise.

If that team didn't have a vet in Larry Hughes and didn't sign Arenas, they would be the worst team in the league.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>transplant</b>!
> Sorry folks, MJ is too big to be the head coach of the Bulls. He's the greatest star the game has ever known. How can we expect him to take a job in which John Paxson could fire him?
> 
> When we see MJ resurface in the NBA it will be as (part) owner and managing partner of a franchise, probably with a hands-on role over player personnel. Any other role is too small for the man.


bingo


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> And it should be also noted that his approach did NOT get adequate results with Washington, either at the GM or player/coach level (MJ was as much the coach of that team as Doug).


What do you consider adequate results? I think the results he got where everything short of a miracle. He cut huge salaries that no one thought he could. He's the reason they could actually sign arenas this offseason. He had strong drafts, aside from Kwame. He turned a joke franchise into a relavent team. Where they are at right now is entirely due to MJ. They are looking at making a serious run at the playoffs for the 3rd straight year. They might make it over the hump this year. That's all MJ.

Did you expect a championship with the short amount of time he was given?

Polan did Jordan wrong. That's the long and the short of it. He pimped Jordan out for his own gain, and then dumped him before MJ could get his. I have no respect for Polan. At all.

And you want me to respect those whiny Wizards babies who couldn't take someone with a burning desire to win? You want me to respect players who ended up cursing at Doug Collins? Think of what the Wizards could have done if they weren't all immature babies? Think if they actually realized it's a man's game. They'll realize in a few years that their time with MJ was indeed valuable.

And people point to Kwame as a failure--how about Rip Hamilton as a success. Look what MJ did to that kid's game. Hamilton is a million times better for having worked with Jordan. Where do you think that mid-range game came from folks?


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## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

I dont think Kwame is a bust yet either, he still has flashes of stardom. But MJ did ruin alot of the confidence Kwame previously had, and alot of people from Washington view what MJ did as negative overall. For one, Kwame was MJ's pick. The kid was straight out of high school, and MJ was unbelievably hard on him. I just dont think MJ has what it takes to 'nurture' youthful players, hes more demanding and insulting than he is a nurturer. I guess you can take the approach thats what they need, but if they continue to lose, MJ will just ***** them out to the point where they dont listen and start to hate him. It was different in Washington though, MJ was a player-GM, which also put Collins in a difficult position. I used to read alot about the Wizards when MJ was there, and there were quotes coming from players who sympathized with Collins because he didnt get the authority that MJ had. Its tough when a player has more say than the coach does. Also MJ was such a baby when he was with the Wizards, whenever hed screw up, he always tried to blame it on someone else. 

I dont have fond memories of MJ in Washington. He was a gun on a team that needed to develop its youth, but MJ was gunning them out of half the games., and his rep allowed him to get away with stuff most players/coaches couldnt. Its hard to question or ciriticize the greatest of all time though.

I dont have much respect for Isaiah as a coach, the Pacers look alot better this year without him and with the same players. MJ just as a coach, i dont know since i've really never seen him in that role, but if its anything like him as a player/GM, then i'm against it. I like Donny Nelson as a candidate, he was responsible i believe for their insight into Nowitzki before people really knew about him, and they were high on Nash when Nash was a nobody second string player in GS i believe? Rivers has a contract as a commentator the rest of the year i think, so i doubt he is a candidate unless their hiring for next year.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> And people point to Kwame as a failure--how about Rip Hamilton as a success. Look what MJ did to that kid's game. Hamilton is a million times better for having worked with Jordan. Where do you think that mid-range game came from folks?


rip had that before jordan came there ...he was always a mid range shooter


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

What did Isaih Thomas ever do with the Pacers other than take a loaded team and underachieve. First round exits for a team that was supposed to contend for the conference title. I'm sorry, everything that Thomas has touched on the Business side of the game has crumbled. While he was involved with the Raptors, they stunk. The CBA? Bankrupt. The Pacers? Consistant underachievement. Zeke was a great player but he doesn't have it between the ears to be a head coach in this league. He also doesn't have any business in any form of ownership in any franchise in this league. 

Why is it that so many people associate great players with having the ability to be great owners/coaches? They are two completely different skillsets.


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> rip had that before jordan came there ...he was always a mid range shooter


Ask Rip Hamilton who is most responsible for his success and he always says Jordan. Good point by whoever said that


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> What did Isaih Thomas ever do with the Pacers other than take a loaded team and underachieve. First round exits for a team that was supposed to contend for the conference title. I'm sorry, everything that Thomas has touched on the Business side of the game has crumbled. While he was involved with the Raptors, they stunk. The CBA? Bankrupt. The Pacers? Consistant underachievement. Zeke was a great player but he doesn't have it between the ears to be a head coach in this league. He also doesn't have any business in any form of ownership in any franchise in this league.
> 
> Why is it that so many people associate great players with having the ability to be great owners/coaches? They are two completely different skillsets.


I think the main thing he did was integrate declining veterans with up and coming youngsters and remain competitive. It really is the exact situation we have going on here in Chicago.

I would bend over backwards if we could rebuild the way the Pacers have. He's not a great Xs and Os guy, but he could be the guy that gets us where we need to go over the next 2-3 years. On the doorstep of greatness.

I don't love the man... but if he had anything to do with Indiana's rebuilding, and if he could do that here, I would be all for it.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the main thing he did was integrate declining veterans with up and coming youngsters and remain competitive. It really is the exact situation we have going on here in Chicago.
> ...


How can the Bulls remain competitive when they have never been competitive. All Isiah Thomas would acomplish is keepin the team in neatural.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I would have hoped he had a pretty good idea of who he wanted before he made the move. Why not just wait a couple of games and use it to hire the guy you actually want instead of messing around with Pete Meyers for a game or two.
> 
> This looks like desperation and impatience. I'd prefer him to take his time and get it right.


I'm sure he has a pretty good idea of who the replacement will be, but why start the guy while the team is finishing up the annual West coast fiasco?

I suppose Pax could have let BC finish out the trip, but why prolong the suffering? No harm in cutting him loose now. And what's Meyers going to do -- screw up the well-oiled machine? 

Who knows, the move may put a spark in the guys for the last part of the trip. Maybe they'll be inspired to lose to Dallas only by 35.

We have nowhere to go but up.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> 
> How can the Bulls remain competitive when they have never been competitive. All Isiah Thomas would acomplish is keepin the team in neatural.


He won with a mix of talented young players and decent vets. That's what I'm talking about.... and that is what we have.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Jalen Rose for player coach!!!
j/k

I've seen it elsewhere and I think Bill Laimbeer would be an intruiting option as opposed to the other retreads that seem to keep coming up. 

Also, at this point, I'd rather the Bulls go get a fresh face rather than promose from within.


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

*Cartright Fired!*

ESPN radio's Dan Patrick just reported that Bill Cartright was fired today. No mention was made as to his replacement. Speculation is that Paxson is trying to get ahold of me (kidding, obviously)

I don't wish ill will on anyone, but I am delighted that Paxson has decided to make this very tough decision. It's the first of many steps towards this organizations future success.

Next step, hire a qualified, competent, and hard-working players' coach. Hire Doc Rivers.

]


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zeos</b>!
> The key term here is _interim_ head coach. Expect the _new_ head coach to be named some time next week.


Naming Pete Meyers as interim coach at this time, is basically setting him up for failure and buying them a little time to name a permanent coach. The next Bulls coach will either be, Doc Rivers or George Karl. Anything less would be a gamble.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm going to add one more postitive in MJ's favor.

His relationship with Crawford. It's deeper than them just knowing eachother.

MJ wanted to trade for Crawford. The trade rumor I read about was 1st pick (ended up being Kwame) to Chicago for Brand and Crawford, but Krause refused to give them both up for the pick.

Crawford has practiced with MJ at his private practice sessions.

People compare Crawford's body/build to MJ's.

If Pip was supposed to somehow whip Rose into "shape" then MJ would be the ideal guy to whip Jamal into shape. Jamal's got the offensive skills, and MJ should be the right guy to get the lightbulb to go off over his head about being a complete player (i.e. play defense).

&c


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I would have hoped he had a pretty good idea of who he wanted before he made the move. Why not just wait a couple of games and use it to hire the guy you actually want instead of messing around with Pete Meyers for a game or two.
> 
> This looks like desperation and impatience. I'd prefer him to take his time and get it right.


I think Paxson's going to bring in a big shooter (coach). And I think the coaching selection and trades that may be currently on the table are all tied together.

"The decision to relieve Bill at this time was a basketball decision. The team is underperforming and we have to find ways to win, period. I am not satisfied with the team's start this season and changes have to be made. *This represents the first change, but not necessarily the last."*

I think he wants his new coach's input on who should be dealt and for whom. For example, and I'm speaking hypothetically, supose its Isiah Thomas. Can he and Rose co-exist? That's just an example. There may be someone else who has very definite opinions about some of the players Paxson wants to acquire. Or the new coach may have insights as to how to trade for someone he really likes and would like Paxson to go out and get.

What if it turns out to be Pat Riley? Don't you think John would want to provide Riley with players he feels he can work with? 

All I'm suggesting is that this isn't likely to be as simplistic a decision as it appeared to be in Orlando where Johnny Davis stepped in and got a two year contract. Paxson, I believe, is attempting to achieve more than one objective: hire the right man for the job _and_ get him players he feels he can work with.

Step one was to create the vacancy. Cartwright is Paxson's friend. Why would Pax leave him twisting in the wind while he was negotiating with Bill's replacement? _That_ would have been unprofessional. Now that the opening exists, Paxson and his top candidate can lay their cards on the table and work out a plan. No need for clandestine phone calls or meetings. Paxson did the honorable thing by letting Bill go _before_ word got out about who he was considering or talking with. He did the right thing.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*OT*



> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> hopson was the leading scorer on the nets before he was a bull ...he was ruined in chicago...as was any pg who liked to handle the ball


Hopson was not a PG. As far as a team-leading scorer, Nets traded him for a low first rounder so clearly they were not as impressed with you about his 15 ppg on a 17 win team.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> Step one was to create the vacancy. Cartwright is Paxson's friend. Why would Pax leave him twisting in the wind while he was negotiating with Bill's replacement? _That_ would have been unprofessional. Now that the opening exists, Paxson and his top candidate can lay their cards on the table and work out a plan. No need for clandestine phone calls or meetings. Paxson did the honorable thing by letting Bill go _before_ word got out about who he was considering or talking with. He did the right thing.


Well said.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I'm not sure why Pat Rileys name keeps coming up..he is, after all, GM in Miami still.


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

...and what's Randy Pfund? Its not like the organization would collapse if Riley left.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> ...and what's Randy Pfund? Its not like the organization would collapse if Riley left.


so you think Riley would be willing to give up a cushy gig with Miami to come coach the Bulls? Hey, if he is game then I am all for it. I just don't see that happening.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Paxson's going to bring in a big shooter (coach). And I think the coaching selection and trades that may be currently on the table are all tied together.
> ...


Thse are very good points, I admit.

But at the same time, I have to think that Pax has to have someone in mind. I mean, if he's got Isiah in mind, then it might actually make sense to trade Rose _before_ he signs on. If it's possible for Rose's value to sink any lower, it might happen if it's Zeke that comes in as the next coach. Teams around the league will look and see that the Bulls must be really desperate to get rid of Jalen and offer even less.

That's only an example, and I guess I've kind of reversed myself into a point of saying they should be going with a temp guy, but I think it can also play out another way too.

That is, if Pete's an obvious temp, then it's going to come out who the Bulls are talking to regarding the full time gig. And as soon as it does, that's going to affect our abilities to trade players if it's apparent that we HAVE to trade them if we hire a certain coach.

If we'd kept Cartwright around for another week, we might have been able, through back channels, to line up a coach and line up a trade without word getting out to other teams that would affect the trade values.

Or maybe not... I'm only speculating here, obviously. Maybe we're just at a point where we have to take our losses and no manuevering is gonna help us.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

One thing I found odd. Pete is an advance scout this year. He's not even ACTING as an asst coach this season, so why make him the interim guy over Adams or Thornton or somone?


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

Don't discount Paxson from pursuing the biggest fish in the sea he can snare. Remember, this will be _his_ choice.

Of all the available candidates, who has the best resume? Some guys might not want to add a coaching icon like Riley. But Paxson isn't about power, he's about winning. If he thinks Riley's the best man for the job then the size of the shadow Riley casts won't disuade Pax from reaching out to him.

Again, I can't emphasize how important this decision is for Paxson. He's going to want a guy who can turn this situation around quickly and permanently.

In the eyes of everyone on this roster both Floyd and Cartwright were challengeable coaches. Such will not be the case with Paxson's selection. You can bet he'll bring someone in who won't put up with any of the antics some of our players have foisted on our post Phil Jackson coaching staff. Paxson may have his "no excuses" motto. But its my guess whoever he hires will have a motto of "just shut-up and play" and he'll be able to back it up.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Don't discount Paxson from pursuing the biggest fish in the sea he can snare. Remember, this will be _his_ choice.
> 
> Of all the available candidates, who has the best resume? Some guys might not want to add a coaching icon like Riley. But Paxson isn't about power, he's about winning. If he thinks Riley's the best man for the job then the size of the shadow Riley casts won't disuade Pax from reaching out to him.
> ...


I think Karl & Rivers are the most credentialed coaches available. I don't count Riley or DOn Nelson as being available because I don't see them leaving their current gigs.


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## genex (Apr 17, 2003)

*Good point*



> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> One thing I found odd. Pete is an advance scout this year. He's not even ACTING as an asst coach this season, so why make him the interim guy over Adams or Thornton or somone?


Pete's only coaching experience was as an assistant coach under Cartwright and running the Summer league team this year. DO any of you pick up SCORE radio out of Chicago? What are they hearing Paxson is up to regarding coaches? No one really seems to know. Speculation is difficult due to Paxson's lack of history with coaches.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Good point*



> Originally posted by <b>genex</b>!
> 
> 
> Pete's only coaching experience was as an assistant coach under Cartwright and running the Summer league team this year. DO any of you pick up SCORE radio out of Chicago? What are they hearing Paxson is up to regarding coaches? No one really seems to know. Speculation is difficult due to Paxson's lack of history with coaches.


Myers, entered this season as team scout and played eight years in the NBA. He is currently in his fifth season with the Bulls Basketball Operations Department. Myers has spent time as, both an assistant coach and as a member of the Bulls’ scouting staff. 


Thats from the Bulls official website.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Enough with the Reilly stuff. Of all the possible candidates, he's the only one who, if he wanted to be an NBA head coach right now, he would be an NBA head coach right now. He bowed out because he didn't want to coach. He's not a candidate.

While it's fun to fantasize about our next head coach, there are few worthy candidates who are both available and interested in an NBA head coaching position. Those few who appear worthy and may be available (Karl, Thomas, Fratello) all left the game on a low note.

Pax may have a guy in mind who he wants to try to talk into the job. Then again, he may want Ron Adams, the only assistant coach brought in under his regime. Adams works either as a first choice or as a back-up position.

Net, I'll be surprised if Adams doesn't get the job. If this had happened in June, instead of November, it might have been different. At this point, the truly hot coaches are all employed in one way or another.

Since few of us know about Adams, it's time we start learning more about him. For starters, here's what's on the Bulls' website:

Coaching Career Synopsis:

-Assistant coach, Fresno Pacific University, 1969-72. 
-Head coach, Fresno Pacific University, 1972-75. 
-Assistant coach, U.S. International, 1975-76. 
-Assistant coach, University of California -- Santa Barbara, 1976-78. 
-Head coach, Sunair Basketball Club, Ostende, Belgium, 1978-79. 
-Assistant coach, Fresno State University, 1980-86. 
-Head coach, Fresno State University, 1986-90. 
-Assistant coach, University of Nevada -- Las Vegas, 1990-91. 
-Assistant coach, San Antonio Spurs, 1992-94. 
-Assistant coach, Philadelphia 76ers, 1994-96. 
-Player Personnel-Scout, Portland Trail Blazers, 1996-98. 
-Named as assistant to George Karl with Milwaukee on October 22, 1998

IMO I'll be surprised if he's not the guy.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

all I know is that now, we can say we have the "coolest" and "hippest" coach in the NBA (though it's only for a couple games). may not be the best coach in the NBA, but definitely the coolest. Mo Cheeks is distant second.

Go Myers!!


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

Does history repeat itself?

Pete myers once played a "stop gap" role for the bulls before Jordan returned.

Will he do so again?

Jordan addressing the team?

Jordan needing a job?

:uhoh: 

don't do it Pax!


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

I was surprised. 

Hopefully, the Magic will hire BC, as they continue to hire guards who don't have a clue as to how to coach big men(which is why they never seem to keep their big men).


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT*



> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Hopson was not a PG. As far as a team-leading scorer, Nets traded him for a low first rounder so clearly they were not as impressed with you about his 15 ppg on a 17 win team.


i never said hopson was a pg i said hopson was ruined in his time in chicago by mj who had a well documented bias against ohio state players 

he was definitely headed for a decent career before the bulls


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