# The Delcline Of Mike Fin



## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

The Decline of Mike Fin:

A story by merc_cuban

Mike Fin is one of my favorite players. From the time he played in phoenix posterizing people on a nightly basis til the time he got traded to Dallas for Kidd and began to show flashes of being something special. Over the past 3 years fin has been on the decline and here is why.

Mike Fin has had MAJOR INJURIES in his career and has played through them. While other guys sat out with the same pain he would play through it. It helped the team during those seasons but it has damaged him physically and has shortened his career.

Finley never had great handles. He had an explosive first step that allowed him to get to the hole with ease and use his elevation and athleticism to score on his opponents. Due to injuries he does not have that anymore. He still has an above average vert but he's gotten a step slower because of playing through pain.

His body is worn down due to those injuries as well as just getting older. He's turned into a jump shooter. A great jump shooter but he disappears too much. He's not used to not being a consistent part of the offense and often he will pout instead of realizing that if he would run off the dadblasted screens and get open or use his fadeaway jumper down on the blocks like he used to he could help this team beat htown and win a ship.

But no. He won't do the little things to help this team. He won't play good d. He won't rebound. He won't do anything. He's one of the deadliest shooters in the league and sometimes he won't even do that. In his mind he is still the mike fin of old. The "on the verge of being an nba superstar finley" the "2 time allstar finley" and he's not accepting his role on this team.

Out of respect for what he has done for the team when they were losing he still starts but he shouldn't. Daniels is a much better ballhandler and playmaker as well as defender. But Avery is so high on fin. He's a good person and well respected in the community and a team captain so they won't bench him. 

There is no way teams are going to trade for him. His contract is huge over the next 4 or 5 years and ends with him making 18 mil. He's the highest paid maverick on the team and we're just going to have to grin and bear it unless avery or mark decides that he should come off the bench which he should have been doing after his horrid showing in game 1.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Did you write that? 

That's pretty accurate and convincing. lol Maybe you can send it to Mark Cuban or write him an email.


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## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

jibikao said:


> Did you write that?
> 
> That's pretty accurate and convincing. lol Maybe you can send it to Mark Cuban or write him an email.


yeps


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

You are good! Forward this to Cuban please.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Finley is on a decline, to the point to where he shouldn't even be the #2 option on offense. Like you said, he's a jump shooter. He doesn't create shots for his teammates, and he doesn't get to the line. He's still a solid all-around player, just not a guy that can take over a game anymore.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Finley is on a decline, to the point to where he shouldn't even be the #2 option on offense. Like you said, he's a jump shooter. He doesn't create shots for his teammates, and he doesn't get to the line. He's still a solid all-around player, just not a guy that can take over a game anymore.


It really surprises me that Mavs still thinks Finely is the #2 guy and Nash should go. 

Sigh... what a pathetic organization. Now they need to rely on Dampier who just gave Yao 33pts last night. Great defense. 


Too bad Dirk is wasting his prime on Mavs. 


If you play RPG video games a lot you will know the truth: Versatility is NOT a good thing. You are either VERY good on ONE thing or NOTHING. You can be very good at melee, long-range, defense, spell-casting, supporting but you can NEVER be "good" at everything. You lose especially if you play online games where you can group with other people. You find players that have very "specalized" skills that you don't have. If you are a Mage, you want to find a Fighter (meatshield) who can tank for you so you can cast magic behind him. 

Video game is very similar to basketball. Basketball is a team sport. Mavs has so many weapons but NONE of them are master of ANYTHING. Versatility will hunt you down when you have no specialization. We have no defense specialist (besides Howard but he is sort of undersized), we have no pure shooter (Finely????) and we have no go-to guy (poor Dirk got left out). We got a overpaid center who is supposed to bring defense/rebound for us but I haven't seen him being that productive yet. And what about a PG who doesn't know how to run his team offense? 


The ending of this video game is Game Over. Choose another character and build him/her again from the start. Choose what you want to master: Sword, Magic, Shield, Support and please no Hybrid.

Versatility and Hybrids can only work in Soloing games where you need different skills to survive in different situations. Basketball ain't solo sport.


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## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

> It really surprises me that Mavs still thinks Finely is the #2 guy and Nash should go.
> 
> Sigh... what a pathetic organization. Now they need to rely on Dampier who just gave Yao 33pts last night. Great defense.
> 
> ...


What Mavs fan have you talked to that has said this? Dampier was actually doing a decent job on Yao but then he got into foul trouble and had to sit for most of the 1st half. Then Bradley came in and then Yao started to do his thing. I wouldnt say Dirk is wasting his prime in Dallas. He still has alot to go.

I will say for the 2nd option I hope that D.Harris can becoming a much better point guard next season and move Terry back to the 2.


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## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

jibikao said:


> It really surprises me that Mavs still thinks Finely is the #2 guy and Nash should go.
> 
> Sigh... what a pathetic organization. Now they need to rely on Dampier who just gave Yao 33pts last night. Great defense.
> 
> ...


finley was a two time allstar and rarely injured when he got his new deal. Nash was oft injured and ran out of gas and was alot older when he wanted his new long term deal. 

harris has shown flashes. I hope he can pick it up next year. The mavs problem is not their depth. It's the combinations that avery puts out there.

You should always have 2 scorers, a hustler, and two defensive players on the court at all times. one of those 2 scorers should also be a play maker. 

avery goes with lineups like

terry
fin
howard
dirk
damp

when I honestly think daniels should start. HE's a pest on "D" and makes plays on offense. He's not a great shooter but terry and dirk could handle the outside shooting with howard helping ocassionaly


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

mff4l said:


> finley was a two time allstar and rarely injured when he got his new deal. Nash was oft injured and ran out of gas and was alot older when he wanted his new long term deal.
> 
> harris has shown flashes. I hope he can pick it up next year. The mavs problem is not their depth. It's the combinations that avery puts out there.
> 
> ...



1.) Finely may rarely miss a game but he is not effective in playoffs at all. I haven seen it again and again. Finely sucks. He is a shooting guard but besides from jacking up his shots, he rarely goes inside to penetrate defense. Even if he goes inside, his very limited dribbling skill will only lead to a jump shot. He is old. He should be a bench player now, not a starter. 

2.) People keep saying Nash consistently breaks down in playoffs and he gets injured a lot. Last I checked Nash played 82 games in 01, 02, and miss 3 games in 03 and this year he misses 6 games. That's not THAT injury proned if you ask me. The Mavs' hatred towards Nash has definitely gone WAY TOO FAR. Nash has the reason to leave Mavs because Cuban refuses to pay what Nash deserves. Now Nash is the legit MVP this year and he is having a great year with Suns who truly values what Nash offers. Wouldn't you be pissed if you were Nash? Even Dirk understands why Nash left = because he doesn't get the appreciation he deserves. Keep blaming on Nash's defense. I'll see how great Mavs' defense is against Rockets. 

3.) Devin Harris has great potential. He is a rookie and he needs time to grow. Again, this TOTALLY reflects my analogy. When you have too many weapons, you tend to go with the one that works at that time0, rather than trying to figure out WHY that weapon doesn't work. If Mavs gave Harris plenty of chances to practice in regular season, I am 100% sure that he is a better PG than Terry. Terry can replace Finely easily. Terry shoots well and he can penetrates defense which Finely cannot. Now you've got a situation where NONE of the PGs know how to run the offense. All I see is a lot of one-on-one and pathetic offense flow. 

4.) I don't like Daniel. He is another example of "versatile" player who doesn't do well on anything. He is undersized too, so he can't be like Kobe/T-MAC/Wade where he can just take over the game. Daniel should go. Howard can stay. 

5.) My ideal lineup for Rocket is: 

Dirk
Terry/Stackhouse (shooting guard)
Devin Harris/Armstrong (PG)
Howard/Van Horn (SF)
Bradley

Bradley is not a very good center but his long arms can annoy Yao. Yao is not strong or fast which is a perfect fit for Bradley. Dampier is undersized and he is slow too. 

That's all I want to say.


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## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

I agree with that lineup except that I would start Damp over Bradley still. Bradley is worthless. At least Damp will hustle for the ball. Move around and get to the free throw line and is not that type of foul machine that Bradley is. He may be undersized but its all about matchups and more times than none Dampier has an advantage of many other players.

Dallas fans dont hate Nash though. We still follow what he is doing at Phoenix. We aren't Philly Eagle fans who turns on each player when they leave there team :biggrin: 

But I 100% agree with your third comment. The one numbered 3 lol. I hope in this offseason Avery who was a point guard himself works with Harris and then move Terry back to the shooting guard role where I believe he will be more comfortable at. He would be the 2nd option there and we wouldnt have to rely on Finley. In fact........put him on the bench now. 

I remember a thread in the general board about Stackhouse should start over Finley and all Mavs fans including myself killed him for saying that. Welll I think we all owe whoever that was who made that thread an apology lol.



> He is undersized too, so he can't be like Kobe/T-MAC/Wade where he can just take over the game.


I dont think we are asking Daniels to be another Kobe/T-Mac/Wade. I like Daniels but he still needs to work on h is jump shot and his decision making. I loved how he would move around the baseline and get open then he could do his thing which many times resulted into 20 and sometimes 30 point plus games for him. We seem to not do that for him this season.


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## mavsmania41 (Mar 27, 2005)

go small in the back court

Pg Harris
sg Terry
Sf Josh Howard
Pf Dirk Nowitzki
C Dampier
Or start stack or Marquis I wanna see some youth.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Gambino said:


> I agree with that lineup except that I would start Damp over Bradley still. Bradley is worthless. At least Damp will hustle for the ball. Move around and get to the free throw line and is not that type of foul machine that Bradley is. He may be undersized but its all about matchups and more times than none Dampier has an advantage of many other players.
> 
> Dallas fans dont hate Nash though. We still follow what he is doing at Phoenix. We aren't Philly Eagle fans who turns on each player when they leave there team :biggrin:
> 
> ...



1.) With the amount of money we pay for Dampier, he is NOT good enough. Bradly is not good by all means but I think he is effective on Yao. Hell, I don't even think Dampier is effective on Yao. I say give Bradley a shot and see what he can do if Yao is on fire again. 

2.) Daniel scores point ONLY because other teams don't pay too much attention to him. He can sneak in a few points but that's about it. He is too short/weak to be an effect go-to guy. He has a nice all-around game but again, versatility kills. He is not good at anything. He isn't a great slasher, a great passer, rebounder, defender and a shooter. Read my video game analogy if you have trouble understanding me. 

3.) Stackhouse has his game which is one-on-one. He isn't useless but he is most effective coming off bench to provide some points when we rest our starters. Stackhouse reminds me of Nick Van. Stackhouse is fearless. 

4.) A lot of Mavs fans hate Nash. Visit here: http://dallas-mavs.com/forums/
You know what the funny thing is? Mavs is trying to depict Nash as the "bad" guy by saying he "left" the team. And now Cuban and Dallas media keep saying "we don't miss Nash". Well, how about we turn it around and see how it sounds? 

Nash DOES NOT miss Mavs. He is a MVP this season and helps Suns to be the 3rd best turnaround team in the NBA history. And what's more important, Suns treasures Nash. I bet you haven't heard Nash's side of story much.  All we hear is how Dallas doesn't miss Nash... and I bet Nash doesn't miss Mavs too.


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## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

I just started recently posting on dallas-mavs.com. The time i've been there I haven't seen it. 



> 1.) With the amount of money we pay for Dampier, he is NOT good enough. Bradly is not good by all means but I think he is effective on Yao. Hell, I don't even think Dampier is effective on Yao. I say give Bradley a shot and see what he can do if Yao is on fire again.


Bradley got his chance after Damp went out with two questionable calls imo. Yao proceeded to dominate him inside and out. He was more quicker and alot more physical and all Bradley did was commit fouls. Damp will at least be make an effort on Yao by playing physical ball. Move around w/o the ball and get him out of his game. I've yet to see Bradley do that in this series.



> 2.) Daniel scores point ONLY because other teams don't pay too much attention to him. He can sneak in a few points but that's about it. He is too short/weak to be an effect go-to guy. He has a nice all-around game but again, versatility kills. He is not good at anything. He isn't a great slasher, a great passer, rebounder, defender and a shooter. Read my video game analogy if you have trouble understanding me.


Well if he sneak in a few points than thats fine. I dont ever think Dallas should ask for him to be a scoring force or another option as a scorer. He has the potential to be a good defender as well as passer if he uses it. The problem is that he doesn't. He makes some crazy decisions and he needs to work on that. He's not great by all means but he could be a decent player on the floor for us.

I already know that about Stackhouse. He gives us a spark off the bench as well as Harris. Problem is that Finley is not giving us anything right now in this series.


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## NastyN44 (Jan 18, 2005)

Gambino said:


> I agree with that lineup except that I would start Damp over Bradley still. Bradley is worthless. At least Damp will hustle for the ball. Move around and get to the free throw line and is not that type of foul machine that Bradley is. He may be undersized but its all about matchups and more times than none Dampier has an advantage of many other players.
> 
> Dallas fans dont hate Nash though. We still follow what he is doing at Phoenix. We aren't Philly Eagle fans who turns on each player when they leave there team :biggrin:
> 
> ...



Yea, I was the one who made that thread!! I do accept your apology! But 
do you all see what I was talking about now!!! Hate to say it... but told you so!!!!!!!!!


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## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

jibikao said:


> 1.) Finely may rarely miss a game but he is not effective in playoffs at all. I haven seen it again and again. Finely sucks. He is a shooting guard but besides from jacking up his shots, he rarely goes inside to penetrate defense. Even if he goes inside, his very limited dribbling skill will only lead to a jump shot. He is old. He should be a bench player now, not a starter.
> 
> 2.) People keep saying Nash consistently breaks down in playoffs and he gets injured a lot. Last I checked Nash played 82 games in 01, 02, and miss 3 games in 03 and this year he misses 6 games. That's not THAT injury proned if you ask me. The Mavs' hatred towards Nash has definitely gone WAY TOO FAR. Nash has the reason to leave Mavs because Cuban refuses to pay what Nash deserves. Now Nash is the legit MVP this year and he is having a great year with Suns who truly values what Nash offers. Wouldn't you be pissed if you were Nash? Even Dirk understands why Nash left = because he doesn't get the appreciation he deserves. Keep blaming on Nash's defense. I'll see how great Mavs' defense is against Rockets.
> 
> ...


daniels is 6 6 man

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marquis_daniels/index.html?nav=page

he's almost as long as howard too. He's a pure score and play maker. there have been games where he's almost got triple dubs running the point. Including last year. Avery just won't play him.

dampier is not undersized. He's 6 11


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

jibikao said:


> It really surprises me that Mavs still thinks Finely is the #2 guy and Nash should go.
> 
> Sigh... what a pathetic organization. Now they need to rely on Dampier who just gave Yao 33pts last night. Great defense.
> 
> ...


Howard isn't undersized, and we have a lot of players who can be pure shooters. Dampier did not give up 33 pts to Yao last night, he picked up early fouls and did not play when Yao went on his run. When he was in the game, he played solid defense and destroyed Yao on the boards. You can blame those 33pts on Van Horn and Shawn Bradley.


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## flamethrower42 (Mar 23, 2005)

> He won't do the little things to help this team. He won't play good d. He won't rebound. He won't do anything. He's one of the deadliest shooters in the league and sometimes he won't even do that. In his mind he is still the mike fin of old. The "on the verge of being an nba superstar finley" the "2 time allstar finley" and he's not accepting his role on this team.


Thought this should be looked at one more time considering all the thing Fin is doing to help us win. 

Your points are good, but Fin is doing the things he can that helps us win. He has been playing a deferred role in this series. 
What more can you ask for?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2005/dailydime

Your right in that he will be going nowhere. The Mavs will keep him.


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## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

flamethrower42 said:


> Thought this should be looked at one more time considering all the thing Fin is doing to help us win.
> 
> Your points are good, but Fin is doing the things he can that helps us win. He has been playing a deferred role in this series.
> What more can you ask for?
> ...



he is now doing those things. but most of this year and in the first 2 games he wasn't doing those things. its easy to make this call now but i gurantee you would not have said that after last monday's game


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## terry2damp (Apr 24, 2005)

jibikao- Daniels in 6'6'' the same size as kobe 2 inchs smaller then tmac (but tmac is a sf) and 2 inchs taller then wade so that shows ur ignorance

damp is 6'11'' 265lbs thts HUGE not very many teams have a bigger C who can actually play another example of ur ignorance shaq is the only guy who is stronger and bigger then him in the league who can actually play

saying bradley should start hahahahahaha im not even gonna bother

i saw u posted on espn that u used to be a mavs fan and are now a suns fans so u are a bandwagoner which is the worst kind of fan (yes its worse then a knicks fan lol)

another think ITS FINLEY not finely


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## flamethrower42 (Mar 23, 2005)

mff4l said:


> he is now doing those things. but most of this year and in the first 2 games he wasn't doing those things. its easy to make this call now but i gurantee you would not have said that after last monday's game



I think after last mondays game no one, from Dirk to the last man on the bench... was given much praise. Dirk was so upset with himself he wasn't as effective in the second game. See Dirks statements over his that. 
Fin played hard in the last two games, if you don't/can't recognize it for what it is....then that's ok by me, no problem. 
I just think Fin played hard and deserves the credit for what he did.

He has played better D in the last two games, we needed that.


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## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

flamethrower42 said:


> I think after last mondays game no one, from Dirk to the last man on the bench... was given much praise. Dirk was so upset with himself he wasn't as effective in the second game. See Dirks statements over his that.
> Fin played hard in the last two games, if you don't/can't recognize it for what it is....then that's ok by me, no problem.
> I just think Fin played hard and deserves the credit for what he did.
> 
> He has played better D in the last two games, we needed that.



yea he has. he's leading by example but he must continue it. he can't let up or ease up


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