# BBF Player Rankings, Summer 2014 - Shooting Guard



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - ?

Nominees
Victor Oladipo
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Jimmy Butler
Tyreke Evans
Arron Afflalo
Kyle Korver
Dion Waiters


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## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

As much as I hate to do it I have to vote Harden by default of how weak the SG spot is right now. It's hard to call a player who doesn't even know what the word defense means as the best at his position but sadly it's pretty clear that he is. 

Also for lack of a better choice I'm going to nominate Wade, although I strongly considered going DeRozan based off Wade declining. If Dragic ends up being voted a SG he moves both Harden and Wade down a slot.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Kobe. 

Harden.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Ugh.

Harden, and Wade.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Kobe and I nominate DeMar DeRozan.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

I completely get the Harden disdain but I don't see who I can put over him when Kobe isn't healthy.

Vote for Harden. 

Nominate Kobe.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I think I'd rather have Manu unless my team is awful and no one could score. Pretty much take the sixth best point guard over any of them. Hell we call Montae a two guard and he's probably up there too, you're not talking about much of a choice


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Vote: Kobe
Nominate: Wade


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Diable said:


> I think I'd rather have Manu unless my team is awful and no one could score. Pretty much take the sixth best point guard over any of them. Hell we call Montae a two guard and he's probably up there too, you're not talking about much of a choice


That's interesting, I think that for one single playoff series you can definitely make a case for Ginobili as the guy you take, this considering Kobe's injury. Ginobili has never been a number one option, but has definitely played a share of games where he easily could have been the number one option.

Although it makes me wonder if Ginobili playing with Duncan and Parker has been able to hide some of his deficiencies - Harden looked like a much more complete player back on the Thunder, but when he became the number one option in Houston we started seeing more flaws in his game.


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## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

Harden. Wade.

By default. DeMar is close and I need to see Kobe healthy.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

PhillySixers87 said:


> As much as I hate to do it I have to vote Harden by default of how weak the SG spot is right now. It's hard to call a player who doesn't even know what the word defense means as the best at his position but sadly it's pretty clear that he is.
> 
> Also for lack of a better choice I'm going to nominate Wade, although I strongly considered going DeRozan based off Wade declining. If Dragic ends up being voted a SG he moves both Harden and Wade down a slot.


I'm going to assume you forgot about Beal and Thompson because until Wade can prove he can stay healthy and be consistently effective you can't put him above anybody. Same goes for Kobe in my opinion, until we see how he comes back I don't know how we can really rank him.

Vote: Harden

Nominate: Beal


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

PauloCatarino said:


> Vote: Kobe
> Nominate: Wade


Uhm, what?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

l0st1 said:


> Uhm, what?


Something wrong, young grasshopper?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Kobe.

Harden.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Harden beats Kobe by 2 votes, and all the Kobe votes are from Laker fans.

Who is number 2? Your options are

Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
DeMar DeRozan
Manu Ginobili
Bradley Beal

If a player is not on your nominated list you can still vote him in. The nominations kind of serve as a guide, so you have a pool of players to keep in mind when voting.

I'm going Mamba, which is kind of an insult to Wade. Kobe is Kobe, and I think a guy like Jeremy Lin can really help him out because he may be the best point guard Kobe has ever played with (keeping in mind Nash is way out his prime).

I nominate Lance Stephenson.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Kobe, nominate Klay Thompson because he's better than DeRozan/Manu/Beal at this point in time. Also nominate Wesley Matthews and Joe Johnson.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

PauloCatarino said:


> Something wrong, young grasshopper?


Young grasshopper?

And yes you picked a guy that hasn't played in over a year( with the exception of like 5 games) and has had two major injuries and he's going into 19th season with 55,000 total minutes and 1,500 games under his belt. Not sure how you can think he is going to come back and be better than some of the young guys.

And then there's Wade who has barely had "flashes" of Flash lately and has had his scoring drop each of the last 6 seasons. So unless you are expecting him to all of a sudden show that he is a team player and actually put the work in and make an effort I don't see how you put him up there.

That would be similar to putting Derrick Rose as the #1 PG


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

BlakeJesus said:


> Kobe, nominate Klay Thompson because he's better than DeRozan/Manu/Beal at this point in time. Also nominate Wesley Matthews and Joe Johnson.


Just curious, but why do you think Klay is better than Beal? Not saying you're necessarily wrong just curious about your reasoning.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

I know you asked for his opinion, but as a Warriors fan, Klay is an incredibly versatile player that can play and guard all three perimeter positions, granted he is a natural wing. He is a great defender due to his length and has a high basketball IQ, really understands spacing.

Give him the benefit of two years of playoff experience on a very competitive team, and he made the second most threes in the league last year behind Steph.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

l0st1 said:


> Just curious, but why do you think Klay is better than Beal? Not saying you're necessarily wrong just curious about your reasoning.


At this point they have a relatively similar game. I think from an overall skill level Klay is ahead of him, but he's also taller and has proved to be a more efficient shooter on more attempts (though both are knock down deep threats). Since they do comparable in a lot of ways but Klay is taller and more proven, it is what it is. Both guys could end up being one of the best SG's in the next few years, but at this point they are comparable with Klay being more proven.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

BlakeJesus said:


> At this point they have a relatively similar game. I think from an overall skill level Klay is ahead of him, but he's also taller and has proved to be a more efficient shooter on more attempts (though both are knock down deep threats). Since they do comparable in a lot of ways but Klay is taller and more proven, it is what it is. Both guys could end up being one of the best SG's in the next few years, but at this point they are comparable with Klay being more proven.


I would say Klay is the better defender but Beal is the better offensive player. I don't think Klay has a very versatile offensive game where as I think Beal can do more. Klay does have more height which makes him a more suitable SG. I do think at this point Beal is better at creating offense for himself and for his teammates.

Actually they both shot about the same amount this past season 15.5/15.7 but Klay was more efficient though neither was overly efficient 44% to 42%.

Like I said, nothing wrong with picking him, I personally wouldn't but I could understand why someone would.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

l0st1 said:


> Young grasshopper?
> 
> And yes you picked a guy that hasn't played in over a year( with the exception of like 5 games) and has had two major injuries and he's going into 19th season with 55,000 total minutes and 1,500 games under his belt. Not sure how you can think he is going to come back and be better than some of the young guys.
> 
> ...


Well, first of all, the SG position in the NBA isn't exactly stacked with talent these days... 
I fully expect both Kobe Bryant and Floppy to have strong seasons. No, they will never play the same as they did in their pick years. But an (hopefully) 80% Kobe/Floppy are still better than all of the other SGs in the league. I mean, posters are referring guys with 14.3 PERs!


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## Goulet (Jun 26, 2011)

Don't understand how Kobe can even be included when we have zero idea what he can even do anymore.


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## Goulet (Jun 26, 2011)

2) Klay

Nominate Beal

The fact that Klay is keeping the Warriors from getting Love says a ton.

The wizards would trade Beal.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

Kobe

Klay


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

l0st1 said:


> I would say Klay is the better defender but Beal is the better offensive player. I don't think Klay has a very versatile offensive game where as I think Beal can do more. Klay does have more height which makes him a more suitable SG. I do think at this point Beal is better at creating offense for himself and for his teammates.
> 
> Actually they both shot about the same amount this past season 15.5/15.7 but Klay was more efficient though neither was overly efficient 44% to 42%.
> 
> Like I said, nothing wrong with picking him, I personally wouldn't but I could understand why someone would.


Klay is the better defender while also being a bigger person, which can be an advantage in it's own right. Agreed there, no doubt. Now in terms of who is better offensively, I would disagree that it is not also Klay.

I think in a few seasons there might be a real case for Beal being a stud offensively, but if you break it down last year, Klay's numbers are more impressive.

They took a similar amount of total shots (that does need further context though, since total shots does not tell the full story), but Klay was still more efficient. 44.4% vs 41.9% on similar attempts per game is advantage Klay. Now you say that Klay doesn't have a lot of versatility to his game, but he averaged 2.3 free throw attempts per game versus Beal's 2.6 average. Basically a wash in terms of volume as well as percentage (Klay 79.5% vs Beal 78.8%). In terms of three point shooting, both guys are fantastic, but Klay took 6.6 attempts per game and completed 41.7% of them. Beal took 4.7 attempts per game and completed 40.2% of them. 

Beal has a lot of ability, and I think he is just coming into his own as a player. However if you admit Klay is better defensively, he's unquestionably bigger, and his stats are more impressive offensively...I think the answer is clear without the margin of difference being massive.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

BlakeJesus said:


> Kobe, nominate Klay Thompson because he's better than DeRozan/Manu/Beal at this point in time. Also nominate Wesley Matthews and Joe Johnson.


I don't agree with Klay being better than Derozan.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Vote Kobe Bryant. 

Nominate Monta Ellis, b/c it's 3-10 SG is really a toss up.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

BlakeJesus said:


> Klay is the better defender while also being a bigger person, which can be an advantage in it's own right. Agreed there, no doubt. Now in terms of who is better offensively, I would disagree that it is not also Klay.
> 
> I think in a few seasons there might be a real case for Beal being a stud offensively, but if you break it down last year, Klay's numbers are more impressive.
> 
> ...



I did say Klay was more efficient but not to a degree that really matters. But I do think Beal is a more complete offensive player in terms of where and how he can score vs Klay being more of a strictly jump shooting player.

Like you said, both players are clearly neck and neck and really putting one above the other comes down to preference.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

PauloCatarino said:


> Well, first of all, the SG position in the NBA isn't exactly stacked with talent these days...
> I fully expect both Kobe Bryant and Floppy to have strong seasons. No, they will never play the same as they did in their pick years. But an (hopefully) 80% Kobe/Floppy are still better than all of the other SGs in the league. I mean, posters are referring guys with 14.3 PERs!




Yes 80% of two injury riddled guys in their 30s is better than James Harden. Riiiiight.

As of right now, there is no way you can put those two guys above Harden, Beal, Klay, Derozan and potentially even Monta Ellis depending on where you put him.

Kobe's injuries are too severe and his mileage too high to rank him that high without actually seeing him prove it. And Wade has done nothing over the last few seasons to warrant any confidence.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

l0st1 said:


> Yes 80% of two injury riddled guys in their 30s is better than James Harden. Riiiiight.
> 
> As of right now, there is no way you can put those two guys above Harden, Beal, Klay, Derozan and potentially even Monta Ellis depending on where you put him.
> 
> *Kobe's injuries are too severe and his mileage too high to rank him that high without actually seeing him prove it. And Wade has done nothing over the last few seasons to warrant any confidence*.


I guess you have to have a little faith. 

Btw, interesting stats about some of the players you mentioned:
PER - EFG%
16.8 - .478
14.3 - .479
14.3 - .533
18.4 - .452
Meh.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

PauloCatarino said:


> I guess you have to have a little faith.
> 
> Btw, interesting stats about some of the players you mentioned:
> PER - EFG%
> ...


Oh well I guess that's the end of the conversation because that's all that matters right?

Also, Kobe had a 10.7 and .445


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## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

l0st1 said:


> I'm going to assume you forgot about Beal and Thompson because until Wade can prove he can stay healthy and be consistently effective you can't put him above anybody. Same goes for Kobe in my opinion, until we see how he comes back I don't know how we can really rank him.
> 
> Vote: Harden
> 
> Nominate: Beal


I didn't forget them, at this point in their careers what have either Beal or Thompson done to clearly place them ahead of Wade in your opinion, aside from being healthy for the larger part of the season? While I don't disagree that Wade isn't the player he used to be, with the weak state of the SG position he's still right at the top and neither Beal or Thompson has done enough to change that. I'd be more inclined to put DD ahead of him than the others listed so far. I will actually switch my vote and go with DeRozan with the upcoming season in mind with Wade as my nomination.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

l0st1 said:


> Oh well I guess that's the end of the conversation because that's all that matters right?
> 
> Also, Kobe had a 10.7 and .445


Wanna bet BOTH Kobe and Wade top 18.4 and .480 next year?


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

Wade
Joe Johnson


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

PauloCatarino said:


> Wanna bet BOTH Kobe and Wade top 18.4 and .480 next year?


Wanna bet those stats don't mean anything and are subjective?


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

PhillySixers87 said:


> I didn't forget them, at this point in their careers what have either Beal or Thompson done to clearly place them ahead of Wade in your opinion, aside from being healthy for the larger part of the season? While I don't disagree that Wade isn't the player he used to be, with the weak state of the SG position he's still right at the top and neither Beal or Thompson has done enough to change that. I'd be more inclined to put DD ahead of him than the others listed so far. I will actually switch my vote and go with DeRozan with the upcoming season in mind with Wade as my nomination.


Assuming these rankings are for the ranking the players going into next season I would easily say that Klay and Beal are both coming off superior seasons than Wade is.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Klay Thompson may have three inches of height on Bradley Beal, but Bradley Beal has about 8 inches of vertical leap on Klay Thompson, for what it is worth.


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## BlazersDozen (Jul 14, 2014)

Vote: Manu

I'm not voting for players who played less than 10 games or aren't healthy enough to even play back to backs as the second best at a position.

Nom: DeRozan


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Kobe takes this one.

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant

We have a huge list of nominees for the shooting guard position.

Dwyane Wade
Manu Ginobili
Klay Thompson
DeMar DeRozan
Bradley Beal
Lance Stephenson
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis

I'm going Lance Stephenson, who already had an all-star worthy season last year. This year as the main number two option, he is going to wreck havoc. Lance Stephenson is going to be a really good NBA player and kind of experience what Harden went through when he got an expanded role.

I don't really need to nominate anyone at this point, but you guys are sleeping on Arron Afflalo.


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## Goulet (Jun 26, 2011)

3) Klay

4) Wade


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

l0st1 said:


> Wanna bet those stats don't mean anything and are subjective?


Hmmm... Stats are, by definition, objective. Context is required, off course. Like the fact some of those SGs are NOT the center of opposing teams defensive attention (second or third-fiddle type of players).

In all honesty, it would take a whole truckload of bad luck (as in, injuries) to prevent Kobe and wade to have seasons that at the very least will top the likes of Klay's Beal's, etc..


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

gi0rdun said:


> I'm going Lance Stephenson, who already had an all-star worthy season last year. This year as the main number two option, he is going to wreck havoc. Lance Stephenson is going to be a really good NBA player and kind of experience what Harden went through when he got an expanded role.


There's a whole lotta wrong in this. I'm actually speechless.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> There's a whole lotta wrong in this. I'm actually speechless.


Meh, I don't know that I disagree with him as far as the fact Lances numbers are going to go way up. Hes an efficient offensive player and a better defender than any of the other 2 guards listed in this thread. 

That being said, I don't think he'll be a net positive for any team he plays for. His mental instability will cause more chemistry issues than hes worth.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

PauloCatarino said:


> Hmmm... Stats are, by definition, objective. Context is required, off course. Like the fact some of those SGs are NOT the center of opposing teams defensive attention (second or third-fiddle type of players).
> 
> In all honesty, it would take a whole truckload of bad luck (as in, injuries) to prevent Kobe and wade to have seasons that at the very least will top the likes of Klay's Beal's, etc..


Except that they are stats that weigh things by the creators standards. Which also makes it partly based on opinion.

How do you figure? Kobe it literally coming off of two major injuries that have derailed or ended multiple careers. I wouldn't call it bad luck if he comes back as a completely different player.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

l0st1 said:


> Except that they are stats that weigh things by the creators standards. Which also makes it partly based on opinion.
> 
> *How do you figure? Kobe it literally coming off of two major injuries that have derailed or ended multiple careers. I wouldn't call it bad luck if he comes back as a completely different player*.


Kobe's game, even when healty, has changed through time. He doesn't depend that much in his former otherwordly athleticism (wich is, off course, gone never to return). He is mostly a shooter and facilitator. 
By all accounts, he is healthy (in fact, the story goes that he could have played late last season if he wanted), so that's where i'm starting from. 
I fully expect Kobe to be at least a 22ppg on .450FG% type of player next season. 

Regarding Wade, i think he should have enough pride in him to put up a strong season. Yes, he has lost a step (or two). And yes, he doesn't defend. But he should be a very capable offensive player (like, a 22ppg on +.500FG%). 
Is he broken down? Yes. Is he expected to play all 82 games? No. But i'm going with at least 70 games and a strong offensive showing.


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## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

Wade at 3.

Nominate Klay, but he's already up there.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Klay Thompson for me.


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxdaddykb (Jun 17, 2012)

3 derozen
wade


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## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

#3 DeRozan


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Jimmy Butler


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Thompson 

Wade


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Jimmy butler


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)




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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Just for the sake of moving this along... I wish there was better discussion, but oh well.

Klay Thompson takes third. As a Warriors fan I'm actually kind of surprised. He's a really good player... but third best in the NBA? I understand the shooting guard position is weak, but damn.

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson

Nominees
Dwyane Wade
DeMar DeRozan
Manu Ginobili
Bradley Beal
Lance Stephenson
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Jimmy Butler

Still going Lance here. I think Lance is a headcase but it translate better to the love of the game. I don't like Cousins at all and maybe he has some of the same qualities as Lance Stephenson, but Stephenson plays an efficient, high energy, high motor game, and is just overall talented as hell.

Lance Stephenson is going to be the best shooting guard that has ever played for Charlotte under MJ, and I'm getting really giddy about that. Larry Bird believes in him, and so does Michael.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Hmmm...it gets interesting here. Wade is probably the best when healthy, but he misses a lot of games and still can't shoot the three. But he shoots 55% from the field, so I'll vote Wade.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Wade.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Derozan


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Wade.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Wade.

And, again: Stephenson sucks.


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## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

To me this one's a toss up between Derozan and Wade, I'll go DeRozan.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

Beal

Wade

So why didn't the first post show who won?


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## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

First post updates in all the threads would be great so we know when it's time to vote again.

I'll go with Wade at 4.

No need to nominate since we've got a good list going in this one.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Wade wins.

Again I'm voting Lance Stephenson, because it seems I'm the only one on this forum that thinks that highly of him, so I'm just going to keep voting him until he gets in. If I didn't think Lance was that good, I'd probably go Ginobili here.

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade

Nominees
DeMar DeRozan
Manu Ginobili
Bradley Beal
Lance Stephenson
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Jimmy Butler


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

DeRozan.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DeRozan.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

I have to vote for* Monta*

Nominate Tyreke Evans


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Kobe.

I'm not sure the NBA's talent level at this position has ever been so low. SG's were running the league in the 00's


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Marcus13 said:


> Kobe.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure the NBA's talent level at this position has ever been so low. SG's were running the league in the 00's



You're a little late to this. We're on the 5th best SG now.


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## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

DeRozan


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Voting for Monta here. Not a defensive wizard, but really, how many of the guys taken above him are? And he's probably the quickest SG in the league.

Nominate Afflalo.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Ginobili.

I'm not sure his body will hold up, but I'm also not sure that Stephenson won't wig out, or that DeRozan's or Beals' shooting percentages will come up, or that Ellis will become a more well-rounded player.


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## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

DeRozan.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

DeRozan wins here.

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan

Nominees
Manu Ginobili
Bradley Beal
Lance Stephenson
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Tyreke Evans
Arron Afflalo
Jimmy Butler

Still Lance, followed by Ginobili.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

This has got to be Monta. Did anybody watch that guy play last year? He carried that Dallas team for stretches. Also, can we look back on his years dragging the Bucks to the playoffs in a different light? The perception was that he was possibly holding them back from being a second round playoff team. Is it possible that, instead, he was carrying a team that lacked playoff talent into the playoffs?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Beal


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Monta for me. Stat-wise a couple of these guys are roughly the same, but Monta penetrates into the lane at will, constantly putting pressure on opposing defenses.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

kbdullah said:


> Monta penetrates into the lane at will, constantly putting pressure on opposing defenses.


Ginobili does the same thing when he's healthy, but he's not at the level where he can do that consistently for as many minutes as Monta plays effectively.


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## Goulet (Jun 26, 2011)

Lance


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Ginobili


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## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Lance Stephenson

Nominate Kyle Korver


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Lance gets his due... 

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson

Nominees
Manu Ginobili
Bradley Beal
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Tyreke Evans
Arron Afflalo
Jimmy Butler
Victor Oladipo

Nominate Oladipo, Vote Ginobili


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## TheAnswer (Jun 19, 2011)

Vote Joe Jesus, nominating Monta Have It All.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

STILL MONTA


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Monta for me. Nominations look fine.


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## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Butler since you didn't add Korver


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Beal.


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## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Ellis


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Monta squeaks by, these ratings are getting a little tougher. That's why we need more voters!! 

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis

Nominees
Bradley Beal
Victor Oladipo
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Jimmy Butler
Tyreke Evans
Arron Afflalo
Kyle Korver
Manu Ginobili
Dion Waiters

Voting Ginobili here again. Won't give you a whole regular season of elite production, but when he's having a good game he could be the best shooting guard in the league.

I'd also love to give a nomination to Dion Waiters, who I don't think Beal is that much better than.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

I guess I'll go Beal.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Ginobili


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Beal is a gangster.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

This position is truly weak.


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## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Korver


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Gotta go w/ Manu here.


----------



## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Ginobili.


----------



## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Manu

Despite his low minutes he's the best player left on the board


----------



## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

Manu




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----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili

Nominees
Bradley Beal
Victor Oladipo
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Jimmy Butler
Tyreke Evans
Arron Afflalo
Kyle Korver
Dion Waiters

Ginobili wins! It's tough here because I don't know how to vote. I don't think Beal is substantially better than any of the other guys on this list, but I guess I'll go with him now. I think Oladipo is poised for a breakout year to be quite honest.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Beal


----------



## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Beal


----------



## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Beal


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Korver


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Beal


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Aaron Afflalo over Beal for me based on FG%.


----------



## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

Bradley Beal.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - ?

Nominees
Victor Oladipo
Wesley Matthews
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Jimmy Butler
Tyreke Evans
Arron Afflalo
Kyle Korver
Dion Waiters

Hate him or love him, going Joe Johnson here because he can do a lot with the ball. If he wasn't getting a preposterous contract I think people would like him more, but that's what happens.

Probably voting Oladipo after this.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Joe Johnson


----------



## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Joe Johnson. Agreed that he's somewhat overlooked just cos of the contract.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Johnson


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Korver


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Arron Afflalo.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Afflalo


----------



## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Aaron Afflalo


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Joe Johnson. 

You have Ellis listed as 7th on this list but still in the nominees.

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----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Ellis


----------



## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

Joe Johnson


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----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - ?

Nominees
Victor Oladipo
Wesley Matthews
Jimmy Butler
Tyreke Evans
Arron Afflalo
Kyle Korver
Dion Waiters
Avery Bradley

Voting Oladipo right here. Nominate Avery Bradley.


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Arron Afflalo. Nominate...Ray Allen?


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Afflalo

And Waiters is a bum.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Affalo


----------



## WildThing99 (Aug 4, 2014)

D Wade


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

I also want to nominate the JR Smith, Jamal Crawford, Kevin Martin trio of bombing 6th men to get them on the radar.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Afflalo.


----------



## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Afflalo


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - ?


Victor Oladipo
Jimmy Butler
Tyreke Evans
Kyle Korver
Wesley Matthews
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Jamal Crawford
Kevin Martin


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

The first ten guys on the nominees list are repeats...


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

I can't decide between Tyreke Evans, Kyle Korver, and Wesley Matthews. What I do know is that all three are better than Jimmy Butler, though.

I guess I'll go with *Wes Matthews* at this spot.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

kbdullah said:


> The first ten guys on the nominees list are repeats...


fixed


----------



## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

Korver


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----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Evans.


----------



## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Evans


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

So does a player have to be already nominated to be voted for? If not, I vote Andrew Wiggins. If so, I nominate Andrew Wiggins.


----------



## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Guess I'll go Oladipo here.


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Man, I don't even know. Assuming that he is going to play this year, I'll go Ray Allen.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Tyreke Evans


----------



## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

I'll vote Joe Johnson, and nominate Tony Allen if eligible.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - ?

Nominees
Victor Oladipo
Jimmy Butler
Kyle Korver
Wesley Matthews
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Jamal Crawford
Kevin Martin
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Andrew Wiggins
Tony Allen

Tyreke Evans wins, which is totally fair and I have no problem with that.

I'm nominating Eric Gordon. At this point shooting guards seem to be a huge wash and really depends on what you're looking for in a player. Going to throw in Danny Green as a nominee as well.

I'm really close to retracting my Oladipo vote, but he was a rookie last year so who knows what he's capable of this year. IMO Oladipo is a potential franchise guy, so I just want to get him in before I start trying to rank these role player specialists who all happen to be really good. It'll be interesting to see where Korver ranks, because even though he's not the greatest player he brings a lot of value to a team.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Wes Matthews


----------



## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Oladipo. 

It'd probably be Wiggins, but I don't like voting players who've never played a game in these things.


----------



## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Oladipo


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Matthews


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

I'll take Jamal Crawford.


----------



## Cajon (Nov 1, 2012)

Surprised Kobe's #2 considering he only played 6 games last season.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Cajon said:


> Surprised Kobe's #2 considering he only played 6 games last season.


It's a weak position league-wide.


----------



## Cajon (Nov 1, 2012)

RollWithEm said:


> It's a weak position league-wide.


^^ Still doesn't warrant being #2 , IMO.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Cajon said:


> ^^ Still doesn't warrant being [URL=http://www.basketballforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2]#2 [/URL] , IMO.


Not everyone voted for Kobe #2 . It was a split vote. Others share your opinion. There's some good discussion on the topic in the first page of this thread.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Andrew Wiggins is better than a lot of these guys right now and will be in the top 5-7 by the end of the season.

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----------



## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Oladipo


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - ?

Nominees
Jimmy Butler
Kyle Korver
Wesley Matthews
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Jamal Crawford
Kevin Martin
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Andrew Wiggins
Tony Allen

It's pretty much vote for your favorite shooting guard at this point... I'll take Wes Matthews who has made an impression on me in the Blazers games I've seen, and has been very productive all year. Kyle Korver is right up that alley though as simply the greatest 3-point shooter in the league outside Steph and Klay.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Wes Matthews


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

I'll vote Jamal Crawford again. Is Vince a 2? If so, I nominate Vince Carter.


----------



## hoopfan101 (Aug 3, 2013)

Matthews


----------



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Jimmy Butler


----------



## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

I guess it's wes


----------



## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Wes Matthews.

On a side note with the way Evans and AD ended the season together I expect them to grow well together next year and see Tyreke move up a few spots on these lists. In fact if he shows the right sort of discipline I could see him on the bubble of top 5 shooting guard after next season.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - ?

Nominees
Jimmy Butler
Kyle Korver
Wesley Matthews
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Jamal Crawford
Kevin Martin
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Andrew Wiggins
Tony Allen

Vote Danny Green tbh


----------



## hoopfan101 (Aug 3, 2013)

Crawford.


----------



## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Andrew Wiggins


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

Danny Green


----------



## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

I'm taking Tony Allen


----------



## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Bradley


----------



## Pyrex (Jan 14, 2014)

How is Kobe even on this list? Let alone getting votes. He is done, and has played in 7 games the past year and a half.


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Crawford.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Korver


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Starting to dislike all these tiebreakers...

Danny Green VS Jamal Crawford!


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Wait, there's a tiebreaker between Jamal Crawford and Danny Green when Andrew Wiggins hasn't been ranked yet? Good Lord.


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

hobojoe said:


> Wait, there's a tiebreaker between Jamal Crawford and Danny Green when Andrew Wiggins hasn't been ranked yet? Good Lord.


he hasn't played a game yet


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

FormerPHCrew said:


> he hasn't played a game yet


Cool. He's a much better player than Danny Green.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

hobojoe said:


> Wait, there's a tiebreaker between Jamal Crawford and Danny Green when Andrew Wiggins hasn't been ranked yet? Good Lord.


Wiggins is almost a complete unknown at this point.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

hobojoe said:


> Cool. He's a much better player than Danny Green.


Minnesota certainly hopes so.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Danny Green, I suppose?


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

This is just a sad thread


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

hobojoe said:


> Cool. He's a much better player than Danny Green.


How many games has he played with equal competition?


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

FormerPHCrew said:


> How many games has he played with equal competition?


A lot less than Danny Green and a lot less than Willie Green, but he's still a better basketball player than both of them.


----------



## hoopfan101 (Aug 3, 2013)

hobojoe said:


> A lot less than Danny Green and a lot less than Willie Green, but he's still a better basketball player than both of them.


Don't play - don't deserve a vote. Have no idea where he should go. Why not say he is 2nd best sg? What's the point with him on these lists? 

What's to stop anyone from saying he should be 2nd best becuase I say so? If he ever got into the playoffs would he badly choke and become totally useless?


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

hoopfan101 said:


> Don't play - don't deserve a vote. Have no idea where he should go.


Because _you_ don't know how good he is doesn't mean he shouldn't be ranked. Some of us have watched him play. 



> Why not say he is 2nd best sg? What's the point with him on these lists?


The same reason we rank everyone else? 



> What's to stop anyone from saying he should be 2nd best becuase I say so? If he ever got into the playoffs would he badly choke and become totally useless?


True, we should probably remove Kevin Love from the PF list while we're at it.


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

hobojoe said:


> Wait, there's a tiebreaker between Jamal Crawford and Danny Green when Andrew Wiggins hasn't been ranked yet? Good Lord.


How honestly do you think a player that not only hasn't played in an NBA game yet, but wasn't even that great of a college player compared to a lot of the players in the draft class, deserves to be ranked above established, successful players (one of them having been an elite SG last year, Danny Green)? Judging a player on his potential is ridiculous. Good Lord.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Voyaging said:


> How honestly do you think a player that not only hasn't played in an NBA game yet, but wasn't even that great of a college player compared to a lot of the players in the draft class, deserves to be ranked above established, successful players (one of them having been an elite SG last year, Danny Green)? Judging a player on his potential is ridiculous. Good Lord.


Because he's a better basketball player than them right now. 

Danny Green is an elite SG - is this an @XxIrvingxX alias posting?


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

hobojoe said:


> A lot less than Danny Green and a lot less than Willie Green, but he's still a better basketball player than both of them.



It's dumb to have rookies here because we can't prove he's even better than Devin Brown


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

FormerPHCrew said:


> It's dumb to have rookies here because we can't prove he's even better than Devin Brown


You can't prove any of these rankings, that's the point of voting and having discussion. Andrew Wiggins is far more talented offensively and defensively than Danny Green, Kyle Korver, Wes Mathews, etc. and is polished enough at 19-years-old to be better than them already.


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

hobojoe said:


> You can't prove any of these rankings, that's the point of voting and having discussion. Andrew Wiggins is far more talented offensively and defensively than Danny Green, Kyle Korver, Wes Mathews, etc. and is polished enough at 19-years-old to be better than them already.


It's too early to say period without having watching him for a single minute of NBA basketball. In 01 before the season started you would've probably picked Kwame Brown or Tyson Chandler over PJ Brown or Tyrone Hill and you would've been wrong. I'm sure Wiggins has like a 75% chance of being better than these guys next year but he hasn't played a minute of NBA basketball who's to say he isn't better than Kobe


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

FormerPHCrew said:


> It's too early to say period without having watching him for a single minute of NBA basketball. In 01 before the season started you would've probably picked Kwame Brown or Tyson Chandler over PJ Brown or Tyrone Hill and you would've been wrong. I'm sure Wiggins has like a 75% chance of being better than these guys next year but he hasn't played a minute of NBA basketball who's to say he isn't better than Kobe


You're proving my point. If Wiggins was playing in the WNBA next season, where would you rank him? I have no proof he'd be great against women, much less professionals, but I would still rank him #1 over Maya Moore. I haven't seen Wiggins play in the NBA, but I've seen him play plenty of basketball, therefore I'm ranking him as a basketball player compared to the other basketball players I've seen play.


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

hobojoe said:


> Because he's a better basketball player than them right now.
> 
> Danny Green is an elite SG - is this an @XxIrvingxX alias posting?


Your evidence for Wiggins being a better basketball player than them is... what... him being a moderately above average player in college?

But the fact that you think he's offensively superior to Kyle Korver even based on his college play just shows delusions of a massive scale.

He wasn't even as good of an offensive player in COLLEGE as Korver is in the NBA LOL.



hobojoe said:


> You're proving my point. If Wiggins was playing in the WNBA next season, where would you rank him?


What in the actual **** does this have to do with anything? Obviously he'd be good in the WNBA, he'd probably be the single best player. Unfortunately, Division I college men's basketball has vastly higher skill levels than the WNBA, so I don't see your point.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Voyaging said:


> What in the actual **** does this have to do with anything? Obviously he'd be good in the WNBA, he'd probably be the single best player. Unfortunately, Division I college men's basketball has vastly higher skill levels than the WNBA, so I don't see your point.


This post is just sad. I'm sorry you couldn't follow a very simple point being made.


----------



## hoopfan101 (Aug 3, 2013)

*Because you don't know how good he is doesn't mean he shouldn't be ranked. *

I’m the one voting. Because I haven’t seen him play one reg season game – I’m not going to rank him. 

*Some of us have watched him play.*

Yeah you watched him play exhibition NBA games and college games. That’s’s not enough to rank him for me. 

*The same reason we rank everyone else?*

Really? Well what past experience are you seeing? His exhibition games? Really? Exhibition games? There are some high school juniors and soon to be 1st year college players, maybe they should be on the list and ranked on this nba list too? 

If you want to rank college games and nba exhibition games – have at it. 

*True, we should probably remove Kevin Love from the PF list while we're at it. *

Huh?

*You can't prove any of these rankings, that's the point of voting and having discussion. Andrew Wiggins is far more talented offensively and defensively than Danny Green, Kyle Korver, Wes Mathews, etc. and is polished enough at 19-years-old to be better than them already. *

If you want to vote on talent and potential – go ahead.To get all twisted as you are because others want to see him play I think from you is a bit strange for a kid that hasn't played and you acknowledge nothing can be proved. With him nobody has a real idea where to put him. So why the fight? I don’t know where to put a guy that hasn’t played one reg. season nba game. My question stiil applies about other high school and college kids. Why not have them on the list too because they may have more “talent and polish?”


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

So to recap, regarding Wiggins you said:



hoopfan101 said:


> If he ever got into the playoffs would he badly choke and become totally useless?


To which I said we should probably remove Kevin Love from the PF list.

To which you respond with "huh?"

This is an extremely easy point to comprehend, assuming you do know that Kevin Love has never made the playoffs. The fact that you can't follow means we're done here.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

FormerPHCrew said:


> It's dumb to have rookies here because we can't prove he's even better than Devin Brown


We have 30 teams of NBA scouts, best in the business at evaluating talent, who believe he is deserving of a top 3 pick in a draft class that is supposed to be one of the most talented in a while. They all believe he can be a really good player in the NBA. We're not ranking Roy Devyn Marble here, but Andrew Wiggins, one of the most scouted players in the past however many years. Don't make it seem like it's a complete shot in the dark. We rank players based on what we see, hear, or read, and factor in a bit of our gut feeling and speculation. It's not very difficult.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - ?

Nominees
Jimmy Butler
Kyle Korver
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Kevin Martin
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Andrew Wiggins
Tony Allen
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye

Going Danny Green again. Bringing up Wiggins is interesting and I think he deserves the next spot over Danny Green. I think Danny Green is the cutoff for an extremely effective shooting guard, which is where I draw the line where I can slot in Andrew Wiggins.

Kyle Korver is obviously useful as hell, but Wiggins talent and versatility offsets that a bit.

Nominate OJ Mayo and Randy Foye


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm split b/w Korver, Butler, and Martin. I like Danny Green too but he's one-dimensional. I feel like if you're gonna nominate a spot shooting specialist, Korver is better and Martin more dynamic.

I'll vote Kevin Martin.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Wiggy.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Korver


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

hobojoe said:


> You're proving my point. If Wiggins was playing in the WNBA next season, where would you rank him? I have no proof he'd be great against women, much less professionals, but I would still rank him #1 over Maya Moore. I haven't seen Wiggins play in the NBA, but I've seen him play plenty of basketball, therefore I'm ranking him as a basketball player compared to the other basketball players I've seen play.


Your point, I think, was that you are able to judge a player's abilities as a basketball player before they play in the NBA by watching them play elsewhere.

I disagree, loads and loads of absolute studs in college become benchwarmers in the NBA. It's incredibly premature and outright naive to say someone who wasn't even one of the best performing players in the draft class is better than established NBA players, one of whom was a key piece of the current NBA champions.

But anyway, *Korver*.


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

Danny Green. It's dumb to call him one dimensional because his defense is great most of the time, I just wish he could handle the ball better.

On Wiggins- it is dumb to rank rookies on here at all. It is basically a complete shot in the dark, we're not really scouts and for all we know Wiggins could suck ass out there and go 0-182 on 4.2 mpg in his rookie season, it's just too hard to rank them especially over proven starters like Green, Crawford, Korver etc


----------



## hoopfan101 (Aug 3, 2013)

To which I said we should probably remove Kevin Love from the PF list.

To which you respond with "huh?"

*This is an extremely easy point to comprehend, assuming you do know that Kevin Love has never made the playoffs. The fact that you can't follow means we're done here*

So you’re comparing KLove for not winning any playoff games vs a kid that hasn’t played in one reg season NBA game? 

Yeah that’s a simialr analogy – sure.

Soem high school kids that are pf's haven't lost a nba playoff game either. Put them on too.


----------



## hoopfan101 (Aug 3, 2013)

KMart


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

hoopfan101 said:


> To which I said we should probably remove Kevin Love from the PF list.
> 
> To which you respond with "huh?"
> 
> ...


Except for the part that it was _your_ argument that you're now calling stupid, not mine. I quoted it. Those were _your_ words.


----------



## hoopfan101 (Aug 3, 2013)

hobojoe said:


> Except for the part that it was _your_ argument that you're now calling stupid, not mine. I quoted it. Those were _your_ words.


What you don't seem to grasp is that I said I wouldn't vote for a player that hasn't played 1 regular season nba game. That was my 1st point. Then I added posts after that which you are picking off one sentence and made a silly analogy. After all, why should anyone expect an Olympain that is going to be playing with LeBron James to be somewhat successful when he eventually will make the playoffs and probably be no less than a 3seed - probably higher? You think it's similar to a kid who hasn't played 1 reg season nba game- go for it. I think your analogy (not you) is beyond dumb. 


Just because you chose to isolate a statement of KLove not making the playoffs and disregard everything else is strange for a thread that you acknowledge can't be proven. It's weird for a thread of picking the "12th best sg" you are getting so pysssed because some of us don't want to give a guy who hasn't played 1 second in the nba regalar season the same love you want to give him. As if it matters and someone is tearing out your heart. Why don't you relax? 

BTW, I'm still waiting for the you to to tell us all that you've watched the high school kids too and tell us how much "talent and polish" they have and which ones should also be ranked ahead of other NBA guys. These rankings are so important to you. Maybe you can start threads and tell us all after a few months that you were right to put Wiggins ahead of Green and Crawford etc. I'm sure a ton of people will be extremely interested in that excting thread.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Also should we reclassify Wiggins to a Small Forward now? It seems like that's the position he will be playing on the Wolves next year.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Kevin Martin


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

gi0rdun said:


> Also should we reclassify Wiggins to a Small Forward now? It seems like that's the position he will be playing on the Wolves next year.


That's within the realm of possibility, sure.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - ?

Nominees
Jimmy Butler
Kyle Korver
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Tony Allen
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye

Danny Green still, I like the defensive edge he has over Korver, and I'm fully aware that Korver is not a defensive dud at all.

I moved Wiggins over to Small Forward. Don't nominate Vince because I'm putting him at Small Forward.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

KORVER


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Korver


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Korver for me too. Green and Korver are both spot shooters, and Korver is better at it. 

Nominate Iman Shumpert.


----------



## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

I'll roll the dice on Ray Allen having a resurgence.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

The right answer is still Tony Allen. Most impact left on the board.


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## hoopfan101 (Aug 3, 2013)

Tony Allen


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## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

Danny Green shoots 3s slightly worse than Korver and plays D slightly worse than Tony Allen...

Danny Green


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - ?

Nominees
Jimmy Butler
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Tony Allen
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye

Danny Green.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Danny Green.


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## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

DANNY GREEN


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## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Jimmy Butler


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Tony Allen


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - Danny Green
19 - ?

Nominees
Jimmy Butler
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Eric Gordon
Tony Allen
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye
Jordan Crawford
Iman Shumpert

Such a tough call. I mean Eric Gordon is someone that used to average 22 points a game, but hasn't done enough recently to show how good he is (although it may change with Asik next year). Jimmy Butler is a game changer on defense, and I think JR Smith's streakiness makes him one of the most intriguing players in this crop. Then there's also Ray Allen although he seems to be regressing.

I'll give it to Jimmy Buckets. Nominate Jordan Crawford who struggled as a Warrior, but was a decent lead man in Boston and was a triple double threat.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Tony Allen


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## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Jimmy Butler


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

I just don't even know. Jimmy Butler I guess.


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## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

jimmy butler


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Jimmy Butler is the best defender in the league when he isn't guarding Stuckey. Next would be Eric Gordon. Dude is money when healthy.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

Tony Allen is so much better defensively than Jimmy. I take him.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - Danny Green
19 - Jimmy Butler
20 - ?

Nominees
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Eric Gordon
Tony Allen
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye
Jordan Crawford
Iman Shumpert

I go JR because his 3 point barrages can sometimes make him the best player in the league.


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## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Tony Allen


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

TONY ALLEN


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - Danny Green
19 - Jimmy Butler
20 - Tony Allen
21 - ?

Nominees
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
Eric Gordon
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye
Jordan Crawford
Iman Shumpert

Still going JR Swish here... Voting is slowing down a lot


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## PhillySixers87 (Jul 29, 2010)

Eric Gordon


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## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

Eric Gordon


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Ray Allen. Has a defined role and still a top drawer spot up shooter.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Eric Gordon


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

EG


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - Danny Green
19 - Jimmy Butler
20 - Tony Allen
21 - Eric Gordon
22 - ?

Nominees
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye
Jordan Crawford
Iman Shumpert
Dion Waiters

I think I screwed up and missed Dion Waiters on a nomination, but I'm putting him back on and absolutely voting for him.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Ray Allen for me again.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Ray Allen


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Avery Bradley

Then Jimmer.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Waiters.

He's being underrated here.


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

Waiters


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Waiters.
> 
> He's being underrated here.


Everyone knows I hate him.


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Waiters


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Nominate Evan Turner. Can't believe he was passed up in nominations. He's probably better than some of the guys we've put in already.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

kbdullah said:


> Nominate Evan Turner. Can't believe he was passed up in nominations. He's probably better than some of the guys we've put in already.


Evan Turner's stock is probably at an all-time low. His strength is his ability to create off the dribble. Last season he was on a team that was struggling greatly to create off the dribble in the playoffs. He only got off the bench in 12 of the Pacers' 19 post season games... and he only managed 12 minutes per in those games. That makes him a below replacement level player on a good team.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

I've always seen Evan Turner as more of a Small Forward? I was going to nominate him there on my next vote. I'll put it in the position thread. And I've only seen Jimmer run point in his whole career.

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - Danny Green
19 - Jimmy Butler
20 - Tony Allen
21 - Eric Gordon
22 - Dion Waiters

Nominees
Avery Bradley
Ray Allen
JR Smith
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye
Jordan Crawford
Iman Shumpert

I see the arguments for Ray but I'm still going JR Smith.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Ray Ray


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Ray Allen.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Avery Bradley, assuming his three-point shooting holds up


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

Bradley


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Let's roll with Ray since that was my secondary vote to break the tiebreaker.

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - Danny Green
19 - Jimmy Butler
20 - Tony Allen
21 - Eric Gordon
22 - Dion Waiters
23 - Ray Allen
24 - 

Nominees
Avery Bradley
JR Smith
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye
Jordan Crawford
Iman Shumpert
Jimmer Fredette
Marcus Thornton
Nick Young

Nominate Marcus Thornton who plays on a shitty team but is right up there. Also Swaggy P.

JR Smith again.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

OJ Mayo has disappointed me so much in his career so far. I thought he was going to be legit.

I guess I vote for Avery Bradley here.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Avery


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Avery Bradley. OJ Mayo had a chance to turn things around in Dallas, but became too disinterested when he was asked to play within the system. He's also very turnover prone in the final minutes of a game.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - Danny Green
19 - Jimmy Butler
20 - Tony Allen
21 - Eric Gordon
22 - Dion Waiters
23 - Ray Allen
24 - Avery Bradley
25 - ?

Nominees
JR Smith
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye
Jordan Crawford
Iman Shumpert
Jimmer Fredette
Marcus Thornton
Nick Young

JR Smith.


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

Nick Young

Nominate J.J. Redick


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

OJ


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Shumpert, I guess.


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

J.R. Smith for me but all these players have some significant flaws in their game. Second that Redick nomination.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1 - James Harden
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Klay Thompson
4 - Dwyane Wade
5 - DeMar DeRozan
6 - Lance Stephenson
7 - Monta Ellis
8 - Manu Ginobili
9 - Bradley Beal
10 - Joe Johnson
11 - Arron Afflalo
12 - Tyreke Evans
13 - Victor Oladipo
14 - Wes Matthews
15 - Jamal Crawford
16 - Kevin Martin
17 - Kyle Korver
18 - Danny Green
19 - Jimmy Butler
20 - Tony Allen
21 - Eric Gordon
22 - Dion Waiters
23 - Ray Allen
24 - Avery Bradley
25 - JR Smith
26 - ?

Nominees
OJ Mayo
Randy Foye
Jordan Crawford
Iman Shumpert
Jimmer Fredette
Marcus Thornton
Nick Young
JJ Redick

Nick Young.


----------



## Voyaging (Jul 30, 2014)

J.J. Redick


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Shumpert


----------



## FormerPHCrew (Dec 3, 2013)

OJ


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Gerald Henderson Jr.


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

JJ Redick


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