# Tyson just called someone out...



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

He was interviewed by Antonio Davis' wife on channel 5 (she's horrible) about the success they're enjoying this year, and he quipped:



> Not to name any names, but this is the first time we've been, you know, a team. Other players were like 'Ok, I'm going to a losing team, it's <B>my</b> time to shine.' It's not like that now...


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

for a spell.... it was glorious....


----------



## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

I wonder who tyson was referring to? Probably jalen.


----------



## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> for a spell.... it was glorious....


Yeah, his first 2 games here were wonderful!


After that, :dead:


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> for a spell.... it was glorious....


Speaking of glorious, thats a glorious picture.

:yes:


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Kind of a weak calling out. Can't even say the name?


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

We all know it's cancer sack so it doesn't matter. Can we finally have a Jalen Rose hate thread.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Jalen Rose was good for the bulls. He actually gave us a star-power to cheer for. He finished #9 in the league in scoring in his only full year with the bulls. Then he broke his hand and the Bulls doctors couldn't figure out that he did, and he played poorly because of it.


----------



## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> Can we finally have a Jalen Rose hate thread.


Lord knows we don't have enough negative or hate threads around here already, huh?


----------



## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> Jalen Rose was good for the bulls. He actually gave us a star-power to cheer for. He finished #9 in the league in scoring in his only full year with the bulls. Then he broke his hand and the Bulls doctors couldn't figure out that he did, and he played poorly because of it.


So is his hand still the problem in Toronto?

He was a disaster in Denver, a disaster in Indiana, a disaster in Chicago, and is now a disaster in Toronto. But it must be the Bulls' doctors fault!!!!


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Jalen's actually playing pretty well for Toronto isn't he? They're trying like mad to trade him. But he's playing well.

It is kind of week for Tyson to do this. What's with the Bulls players dissing ex-bulls left and right this week?

I'm waiting for Kirk to diss Jamal. Any day now.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Jalen's actually playing pretty well for Toronto isn't he? They're trying like mad to trade him. But he's playing well.
> 
> It is kind of week for Tyson to do this. What's with the Bulls players dissing ex-bulls left and right this week?
> ...


He is playing well in Toronto and he was instrumental in Indys playoff run when he was with them. babyblue is sorta "part right" as Bulls doctors didn't fix Jalens hand and he did play worse with it but he has never been much of a defender anyway.

I think Chandler is primarily talking about E-Rob myself.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> He is playing well in Toronto and he was instrumental in Indys playoff run when he was with them. babyblue is sorta "part right" as Bulls doctors didn't fix Jalens hand and he did play worse with it but he has never been much of a defender anyway.
> ...


Indiana was perfect for Jalen to actually look good for a couple years. He knew he couldn't be "the man" or talk about "his props" for two reasons.

1. Everyone in Indy knew Reggie Miller was the man.

2. Too many veterans that you didn't want to mess with in Indy at that time. Guys like AD, Dale Davis, Rik Smits and Mark Jackson would not have been down for that.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> He is playing well in Toronto


What they think of him in Toronto (it's a bit lonbger than 15 games by now):



> If Jalen could keep this up, I would not hesitate to say that we should keep him in Toronto. He would absolutely be worth his contract if he could score consistently at that level of production and efficiency. But does anybody really think he can keep this up? He supporters might answer: Sure, why not?
> 
> I'll tell you why not. Some stats — like rebounding, blocks and steals — are achieved by a combination of effort and athleticism that are not as likely to waver in the long-term due to "hot" and "cold" streaks. Field goal percentage is really about finding a good rhythm, and rhythm can come and go. Ultimately, most players have a baseline shooting ability that they will return to. Jalen shot 41 percent from the field in 2002-03, 40 percent in 2003-04, and 42 percent in the 26 games before his hot streak this season. Which sample size do you think is more reliable: the past 15 games when he shot over 50 percent or the preceding 174 games over the past two-and-a-half seasons when he shot 41 percent?
> 
> Buried under all these numbers is an inherent truth about Jalen Rose. He is playing incredible basketball right now, but he has to keep playing like this to be worth $14.5 million this season, $15.7 million next season and $16.9 million in 2006-07 when he will be 34 years old. If you're going to support keeping Jalen Rose in Toronto after the trading deadline on Feb. 24, you have to tell me that you honestly believe that — for the next two-and-a-half seasons — Jalen is going to shoot close to 50 percent and average around 30 points per 48 minutes. He doesn't play defence, so he has to be an offensive superstar to be worth more than a quarter of the Raptors' total payroll.


http://www.raptorblog.com/blogpage_012105-013105.php#012405_0700


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

I mean doesn't anyone else find it telling that Bosh was as hot as just ABOUT any rookie last year, and along with Carmelo (for different reasons) he's probably been left behind by Lebron, Wade and Kirk? His development or lack thereof in his first full season with Rose reminds me of two guys....oh yeah Chandler and Curry.

Cause da Jalen doesn't care how talented you is aight.....he wants much props and respect -- Ali G


----------



## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

I caught that interview when they were talking about Oprah. Was Tyson saying that he wanted to be engaged to Oprah?


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

:laugh: 

Yes.


:laugh:


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> What they think of him in Toronto (it's a bit lonbger than 15 games by now):
> ...



That's just one guy... mainly talking about his salary.

Most of the people on the Raptor board here seem to like him.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Scottie Pippen said on NBA Shootaround that Rose is showing great leadership for the Post-Vince Raptors.


----------



## Don Corleone (Sep 24, 2004)

Tyson probably didn't even emphasize the word "my." You are making something out of nothing, I believe.


----------



## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

I'm pretty sure he's talking about ERob. Chandler, Curry and Crawford always seemed to like Rose...

Rose wasn't the problem with the Bulls anyways, why do people insist on lying the blame on him? Sure he's overpaid, but he's a nice #2 player on any team.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Sitting there watching I got the distinct idea from the way he said it that he was talking about Rose. 

The way Tyson said it he was speaking of a person who all of the sudden found himself on the team...not someone who made the choice to be there.

If I remember correctly, E-Rob wasn't traded to the Bulls, he signed as a free agent.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> I'm pretty sure he's talking about ERob. Chandler, Curry and Crawford always seemed to like Rose...
> 
> Rose wasn't the problem with the Bulls anyways, why do people insist on lying the blame on him? Sure he's overpaid, but he's a nice #2 player on any team.


He wasn't the problem with the team? WHAT?! Yes Eddy Curry was the problem. Jay Williams was the problem (well he really was when he pulled his stunt, but not DURING the season). Jalen Rose:

Mad MAX money
Talked openly about his shots, his minutes, his props
Proclaimed himself the man
Took careless jumpers
Played zero defense
Whenever we lost pointed the fingers at the young guys (so much for leadership I guess)
Complained and tried to lead a team mutiny AFTER A WIN v. the Hornets
Froze out any young Bull he perceived as a threat to his minutes, his shots or his pubs

Jalen Rose is where THE blame resides 100%. Hell he even managed to be such a black hole that Kirk Hinrich looked like an undrafted free agent for the 16 games Rose was here last year.


----------



## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> He wasn't the problem with the team? WHAT?! Yes Eddy Curry was the problem. Jay Williams was the problem (well he really was when he pulled his stunt, but not DURING the season). Jalen Rose:
> ...


It's awfully foolish to put "100%" blame on any one factor. The Bulls were, to put it bluntly, a train wreck last year. High expectations. Then came the injuries to not one, not two, not three, but FOUR members of the projected players in the rotation. Then there was a knee jerk coaching change coupled with a knee-jerk trade. Underacheiving rookies,Who's to say last years team wouldn't have pulled out of thier funk like this years did (It was never given a chance, and no one knows the answer to this question, so don't bother trying.)

The blame lies in a LOT more people then just Jalen. There are at least 16 other people who are just as much to blame. (Now can we please just move on and pretend the last few years never happened?  )


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> 
> It's awfully foolish to put "100%" blame on any one factor. The Bulls were, to put it bluntly, a train wreck last year. High expectations. Then came the injuries to not one, not two, not three, but FOUR members of the projected players in the rotation. Then there was a knee jerk coaching change coupled with a knee-jerk trade. Underacheiving rookies,Who's to say last years team wouldn't have pulled out of thier funk like this years did (It was never given a chance, and no one knows the answer to this question, so don't bother trying.)
> ...


I'm talking about the whole time we're here. But please....indulge my curiousities. Who are the 16 people who are JUST AS MUCH to blame for Jalen's time here as a guy who made what....16 million his last full season here.


----------



## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> I mean doesn't anyone else find it telling that Bosh was as hot as just ABOUT any rookie last year, and along with Carmelo (for different reasons) he's probably been left behind by Lebron, Wade and Kirk? His development or lack thereof in his first full season with Rose reminds me of two guys....oh yeah Chandler and Curry.
> 
> Cause da Jalen doesn't care how talented you is aight.....he wants much props and respect -- Ali G


Bosh averaged 20 and 10 in January basically since they moved VC so how could you try pin Rose as somehow holding him back is beyond me ?


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

See I told you guys!! Anyone from the Eddy thread the other day. People in Chicago STILL defend Jalen Rose. He'll never get the blame that a 21 year old kid got!! NEVER. Up until the Carter trade Bosh was non-descript.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> See I told you guys!! Anyone from the Eddy thread the other day. People in Chicago STILL defend Jalen Rose. He'll never get the blame that a 21 year old kid got!! NEVER. Up until the Carter trade Bosh was non-descript.


:krazy: 

Are you related to Eddy, or do you just have a mad crush on him?


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

I mean, really?


----------



## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> See I told you guys!! Anyone from the Eddy thread the other day. People in Chicago STILL defend Jalen Rose. He'll never get the blame that a 21 year old kid got!! NEVER. Up until the Carter trade Bosh was non-descript.


or perhaps the problem could have been VC ??also did it ever occur to you that maybe just maybe that Eddy not losing weight and putting forth the effort that he should have is eddys fault ?


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> 
> or perhaps the problem could have been VC ??also did it ever occur to you that maybe just maybe that Eddy not losing weight and putting forth the effort that he should have is eddys fault ?


Jalen never put forth the effort either and he MADE max money. He played no defense and hoisted whatever nasty jumper he wanted to. For christ's sake his FG% was right above Kirk Hinrich's and he's 6'8". When does Eddy openly talk about his shots and his props and how he's the man on this team? When does Eddy point the finger at younger players??


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

From the always accurate Chad Ford...

Maybe not, but there are other issues at play in Chicago right now. Both Curry and Chandler hit restricted free agency this summer and will demand large deals. Curry, especially, seems to think he's a max-type player. 

He isn't and the Bulls know that. Curry doesn't have the work ethic on or off the floor to justify that type of contract. 

Several league GMs claim that Paxson hasn't hung up the phone on them when they've inquired about Curry, but his asking price has increased dramatically over the past few months. 

Teams like the Warriors, Sonics and Grizzlies still are interested.


----------



## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> Jalen never put forth the effort either and he MADE max money. He played no defense and hoisted whatever nasty jumper he wanted to. For christ's sake his FG% was right above Kirk Hinrich's and he's 6'8". When does Eddy openly talk about his shots and his props and how he's the man on this team? When does Eddy point the finger at younger players??


What does Jalen have to do with Eddy ? none of what you mentioned about jalen is the cause of Eddys problems. 

Its like youve run out of excuses for eddy and now its Jalens fault Eddy never lost weight.

Of course we all know that if Jalen wasnt making max money eddy would rebound harder.I guess Eddys wouldnt have Jalens stacks of hundreds on his back holding him down .

Everything youre talking about is about jalens own personal attributes and has no bearing on eddys faults .


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Curry played quite well with Jalen.

End of 2002/2003... Eddy had some of his best games ever with the Bulls ... and that was playing with Jalen and Jamal... and the Bulls were winning games.

To be honest, at least on offense, that Eddy Curry looked better to me than the current one. He was able to use his massive body to back down players (even SHAQ) and score at will. That's why he led the league in FG% that season.

Rose's FG% was low when with the Bulls.... but given how its bounced right back up to around his career average with the Raptors... perhaps he was being asked to do too much with a bunch of rookies.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> 
> What does Jalen have to do with Eddy ? none of what you mentioned about jalen is the cause of Eddys problems.
> ...


LOL who said Eddy needed excuses these days? Last I checked Paxson and the team are not unhappy with him. What do you mean by "run out of excuses"...

Eddy did lose weight genius? Or in your hater mode do you like to pretend he didn't so that you can churn out Eddy voodoo dolls at an even faster rate.

My point is people have crucified Eddy in this town. And until the weekend he got traded, you never heard a peep about Jalen. People unlike yourself who think there is no issue there say "Jalen gets blamed all the time." And yet a high minority IF NOT MAJORITY are still willing to blame a CURRENT Bull and ask you what could make you question a NON-Bull who was a complete ***** when he was here.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> Curry played quite well with Jalen.
> 
> End of 2002/2003... Eddy had some of his best games ever with the Bulls ... and that was playing with Jalen and Jamal... and the Bulls were winning games.
> ...


See lol....people will still try to rationalize defenses for cancer sack. Eddy had not begun to draw his first double teams at the end of 2002-03 yet. That didn't come till the following season.

Asked to do too much or not....hoisting jumpers with no rebounders and playing no defense when you make the max is inexcuseable.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> Asked to do too much or not....hoisting jumpers with no rebounders and playing no defense when you make the max is inexcuseable.


Wouldn't the same "economic arguments" you were using yesterday to justify whatever Curry will be paid be in effect for Jalen as well?

Why constantly bring up his salary in an attempt to use it against him? That's what someone decided to pay him.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

I'm pretty sure that Jalen Rose shot JFK. Somehow they missed Jalen being the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll- I think it's because everyone was too busy blaming the shooting on Eddy Curry.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullsville</b>!
> I'm pretty sure that Jalen Rose shot JFK. Somehow they missed Jalen being the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll- I think it's because everyone was too busy blaming the shooting on Eddy Curry.


:laugh: :laugh: 

Many here would claim that Jalen shoots too low a percentage to pull off that kind of shot.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
> ...


 

Very true- but even at 40% shooting, it would have only taken Jalen 5 shots to hit the car with two bullets.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> Curry played quite well with Jalen.
> 
> End of 2002/2003... Eddy had some of his best games ever with the Bulls ... and that was playing with Jalen and Jamal... and the Bulls were winning games.
> ...


See lol....people will still try to rationalize defenses for cancer sack. Eddy had not begun to draw his first double teams at the end of 2002-03 yet. That didn't come till the following season.

Asked to do too much or not....hoisting jumpers with no rebounders and playing no defense when you make the max is inexcuseable.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> To be honest, at least on offense, that Eddy Curry looked better to me than the current one. He was able to use his massive body to back down players (even SHAQ) and score at will. That's why he led the league in FG% that season.


So...you're saying Pax has robbed Eddy and the fans of an asset by demanding that he lose weight?

No pun intended.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Wouldn't the same "economic arguments" you were using yesterday to justify whatever Curry will be paid be in effect for Jalen as well?
> ...


The economic arguments were never used to justify Curry playing like a complete selfish ***** AFTER he gets his contract, just to say that he will get paid....


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> So...you're saying Pax has robbed Eddy and the fans of an asset by demanding that he lose weight?
> ...


I think some aspects of Curry offensive repertoire have diminished.

But, OTOH, I think he's quicker and can stay on the floor longer.

He's a different type of player right now than he used to be in many ways.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> I think some aspects of Curry offensive repertoire have diminished.
> ...


End of 2002-03 = single team defense on Curry
Now = Doubles and sometimes 2.5 on Curry


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> End of 2002-03 = single team defense on Curry
> Now = Doubles and sometimes 2.5 on Curry



Perhaps. I'd have to look at the old tapes... but that may be true. I'll also have to be more on the lookout for exactly how often during the current games that Curry faces 2 - 2.5 men defending him. If that's really true... then damn... our Gs are dropping the ball. I think 2-2.5 for most of the game is a little exaggerated.

Jalen and Jamal must have been forcing the D to not double team Curry.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

As Dan Rosenbaum has repeatedly pointed out, teams bring hard double and triple teams on Eddy not because our other players aren't a threat to make them pay for it, but because Eddy can't, at least on anything approaching a consistent basis, successfully pass the ball out of a double or triple team. Far more often than not, he'll either turn the ball over or force up a highly contested shot (which, unfortunately, he converts with enough regularity that it does nothing to discourage him from trying it again and again).


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I'm not trying to be confrontational with you. I enjoy your posts. But at the end of that season Jalen and Jay had a nice little thing going together for the first time. Rose backed off his hogging for like 15 games and Chandler had not hurt his back yet, so was always a threat to sky in for a tip dunk. Eddy didn't get doubled cause you really COULDN'T double him. The rest of the guys got in too good of a groove.

Now I'm not claiming Eddy constantly has two men on his back. But now you'll see a second guy come over rather early and if Eddy gets in a groove where that isn't cutting it, the opposition will try to spot a bad outside shooter on the Bulls and use his defender to be that extra .5 man


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> As Dan Rosenbaum has repeatedly pointed out, teams bring hard double and triple teams on Eddy not because our other players aren't a threat to make them pay for it, but because Eddy can't, at least on anything approaching a consistent basis, successfully pass the ball out of a double or triple team. Far more often than not, he'll either turn the ball over or force up a highly contested shot (which, unfortunately, he converts with enough regularity that it does nothing to discourage him from trying it again and again).


His Turnovers per game have been slowly dropping all season. Eddy is by no means close to Shaq at passing out of the double team, but he isn't TOO far away from what Shaq was at 22 in that regard. It all leads back to the fact that Eddy didn't play organized ball till age 15. Instincts Shaq had nailed down by the time he got to Cole High School, Eddy is just starting to tap into. His recognition is improving with every game. Credit him for having a learning attitude, but also Skiles for watching tape with Eddy. Word has been Eddy is one of the team leaders at watching tape and Skiles is showing him where the double teams are coming from so that he can "feel" it without actually seeing it.

Skiles has been a godsend in the Curry development department.


----------



## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> His Turnovers per game have been slowly dropping all season. Eddy is by no means close to Shaq at passing out of the double team, but he isn't TOO far away from what Shaq was at 22 in that regard. It all leads back to the fact that Eddy didn't play organized ball till age 15. Instincts Shaq had nailed down by the time he got to Cole High School, Eddy is just starting to tap into. His recognition is improving with every game. Credit him for having a learning attitude, but also Skiles for watching tape with Eddy. Word has been Eddy is one of the team leaders at watching tape and Skiles is showing him where the double teams are coming from so that he can "feel" it without actually seeing it.
> 
> Skiles has been a godsend in the Curry development department.


Curry's TOs fell in December, but then rose in January and in the first five games of February have fallen a lot. His assists have fallen all season. Over his career, Curry's TOs have tended to go up and his assists have tended to go down. I do not think that evidence fits very well with your story.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> As Dan Rosenbaum has repeatedly pointed out, teams bring hard double and triple teams on Eddy not because our other players aren't a threat to make them pay for it, but because Eddy can't, at least on anything approaching a consistent basis, successfully pass the ball out of a double or triple team. Far more often than not, he'll either turn the ball over or force up a highly contested shot (which, unfortunately, he converts with enough regularity that it does nothing to discourage him from trying it again and again).


Bingo.

Also, when BC was coach, the Bulls did focus on getting the ball inside to the bigs, especially early in games. Curry absolutely drew double teams then, for the reasons you state. His inability to adjust is a major factor in why he would "disappear" in games after having a decent 1st half.


----------



## Silverdale (Dec 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Truth</b>!
> a disaster in Indiana




So much of a disaster that he was the leading scorer on the team that represented the east in the Finals right??:|


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Dan Rosenbaum</b>!
> 
> Curry's TOs fell in December, but then rose in January and in the first five games of February have fallen a lot. His assists have fallen all season. Over his career, Curry's TOs have tended to go up and his assists have tended to go down. I do not think that evidence fits very well with your story.


Well your logic kills my argument...until you get to one fatal question. Does every or even ANY good/effective pass out of a double team have to lead to an assist? What if Eddy passes to someone who passes to someone else, as the rotation comes, who then nails the shot? 

It's very clear by watching Eddy that, from the first doubles he saw at the beginning of last season, until now, he has improved plenty as a passer, whether his assist totals bare that out or not.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Bingo.
> ...


Curry did not draw doubles, and if there was an occasional one, it was nothing close to what he sees now....in march and april of 2003. There were too many guys in a groove in those months.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> Well your logic kills my argument...until you get to one fatal question. Does every or even ANY good/effective pass out of a double team have to lead to an assist? What if Eddy passes to someone who passes to someone else, as the rotation comes, who then nails the shot?
> ...


His assists would still go up if he were a better passer, unless "second passes" also went up for the bulls.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> His assists would still go up if he were a better passer, unless "second passes" also went up for the bulls.


The whole point is....and btw way to respond to the homeruns in the other thread...

Better passer in terms of what? Getting crispy clean assists, or just not messing things up and keeping the possession alive instead of throwing up a bad shot (why his FG% dipped last year and rose again this year) or throwing a bad pass.

If you combine the possessions in which Curry is making FGs when he missed them last year with the lowering of turnovers as the season has gone on....you see he's making strides.


----------



## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

Curry has DRAMATICALLY improved in passing the ball since last year....the other game, i think against dallas...did u see him with a sweet pass to deng in the lane?!!! That was NUTS! The thing is, when eddy passes out of double teams, the PGs reset the offense....

I am not saying he is steve nash
and he needs to have a better idea of where his teammates are...so he can throw it back out for an open 3

also his TOs come from not knowing where the 2nd defender comes from as he turns towards the basket, when backing down....THIS is the most important place where he needs to work on keeping the ball...this is were @ least 80% of his TOs occur...if he could watch this, that would be AMAZING


----------



## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> His assists would still go up if he were a better passer, unless "second passes" also went up for the bulls.


In absolute terms, I'd say Curry is a better passer than in previous seasons. He's more patient with the ball and is less prone to either panic and throw up a wild shot or fling a pass to the nether reaches of the particular stadium he happens to be playing in.

In relative terms, he's progressed from being and absolutly horrid, mind-numbingly bad passer to merely a really bad passer. But he has improved!


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>nanokooshball</b>!
> Curry has DRAMATICALLY improved in passing the ball since last year....the other game, i think against dallas...did u see him with a sweet pass to deng in the lane?!!! That was NUTS! The thing is, when eddy passes out of double teams, the PGs reset the offense....
> 
> I am not saying he is steve nash
> ...


Great post. Eddy doesn't have to have big assist numbers to not be F-ing up as much as he used to. Is he improving? Yes, why is that so hard for some people to admit? Is it a sadist desire to have a whipping boy at the ready at all times? Is he some kind of wiz passer or even above average yet? NO. But at least he's no longer god awful at it.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> In absolute terms, I'd say Curry is a better passer than in previous seasons. He's more patient with the ball and is less prone to either panic and throw up a wild shot or fling a pass to the nether reaches of the particular stadium he happens to be playing in.
> ...


I'd say he's improved to slightly below average. The center position has some really horrid passers at it.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Originally posted by *fl_flash*:


> In absolute terms, I'd say Curry is a better passer than in previous seasons. He's more patient with the ball and is less prone to either panic and throw up a wild shot or fling a pass to the nether reaches of the particular stadium he happens to be playing in.


Very True. Now, lets also not forget that when Shaq first came up with Orlando, he couldn't pass out of a double team to save his life.

And not only that, but his outlet passes back in those Orlando days also presented a "clear & present danger" to any fans/spectators sitting courtside. Actually witnessed a couple of those errant darts....

There used to be speculation back in those days that they should put up hockey glass alongside the court to protect people from Shaq's outlet passes (again, I must point out that was back then).

I think it was Bill Russell who the Magic eventually brought in as a "consultant" to help Shaq improve at both passing out of the post & making the proper outlet pass. Worked out well.....


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> As Dan Rosenbaum has repeatedly pointed out, teams bring hard double and triple teams on Eddy not because our other players aren't a threat to make them pay for it, but because Eddy can't, at least on anything approaching a consistent basis, successfully pass the ball out of a double or triple team. Far more often than not, he'll either turn the ball over or force up a highly contested shot (which, unfortunately, he converts with enough regularity that it does nothing to discourage him from trying it again and again).


Yeah, I agree that's why he's being double teamed so much.

His turnovers per minute are very bad. I can see his passing improving however.

If his highly contested shots go in at a 53.5% clip though there is no reason for him to stop taking them, yes? (EDIT: I assume though that if you took his uncontested dunks away... his % would be *much* lower)

Before we jump off the deep end about Eddy's TOs.... here are the top 5 centers in total TOs per game. (not per minute... curry leads per minute)

1.) Shaq
2.) Eddy
3.) Yao
4.) Z
5.) Amare

It looks like you can be an effective big man while turning the ball over 2.5-3.0 times a game. 

The sad news for Curry is that out of these 5, he's the worst rebounder, scorer (per game, not %... he's 4th worst) and assist guy of the group.

I also don't know how many "touches" each player gets. I'd be most interested in seeing TOs per touch... not per minute.

How can Z have 1.4 assists per game and Curry only have 0.7? They are only .3 apart in TOs per game, although Curry plays 4.5 fewer minutes per game.

Does Z get more touches, turns the ball over less per touch and thus has more opportunities to pass the ball for a teammate... generating an assist?

Or does Z play with the high % scorers Lebron, Mcinnis and Gooden while Curry has the lower % scorers Hinrich, Duhon, Nocioni, Deng and Gordon to pass to?


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> His turnovers per minute are very bad. I can see his passing improve however.


I honestly can't see it. I guess he has gotten better at reading situations and throwing out a re-set pass if he knows he's about to be double-teamed, but his decision-making once he's started his move remains mind-boggingly bad.



> How can Z have 1.4 assists per game and Curry only have 0.7? They are only .3 apart in TOs per game, although Curry plays 4.5 fewer minutes per game.
> 
> Does Z get more touches, turns the ball over less per touch and thus has more opportunities to pass the ball for a teammate... generating an assist?
> 
> Or does Z play with the high % scorers Lebron, Mcinnis and Gooden while Curry has the lower % scorers Hinrich, Duhon, Nocioni, Deng and Gordon to pass to?


The Cavs run a lot of pure isolations and conventional pick and roll for Z. I think they do a much better job of putting him in spots where he can succeed, although he also has a more varied offensive game than Curry -- not as much power, and no signature move as tough to stop as Curry's jump hook, but Z can shoot very reliably out to 20 feet, he can put the ball on the floor, and he has a nice variety of post moves.

No one's asking Curry to drop 3 assists per game. But right now, he resembles Yinka Dare more than Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Skiles needs to focus on getting Eddy to fight and hold post position, not having Eddy out on the elbow.


----------



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> I honestly can't see it. I guess he has gotten better at reading situations and throwing out a re-set pass if he knows he's about to be double-teamed, but his decision-making once he's started his move remains mind-boggingly bad.
> ...


Z is also 29 years old. At ages 23 and 24 he averaged a robust .8 APG.

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess that there are fewer stats to go around on this team than there were on those FABLED CAVS TEAMS.


----------

