# Rose or Beasley?



## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Well around the league these two are pretty much the definate Top 2 picks rite now, same goes with most Heat fans. So,

If we get the 1st pick in the 2008 Draft, who do YOU take and WHY?

and yea we got a draft thread already but i think with the blowout loss to the Wiz, lets be more specific. 1st Pick? :biggrin:

*Derrick Rose*










*Birthday:* 10/1/1988

*NBA Postion:* Point Guard

*Class:* Freshman

*Height:* 6-4

*Weight:* 195

*College Team:* Memphis

*Hometown:* Chicago, IL

*Highlights Video*


*Michael Beasley*










*Birthday:* 1/9/1989

*NBA Postion:* Small Forward / Power Forward

*Class:* Freshman

*Height:* 6-9

*Weight:* 235

*College Team:* Kansas St.

*Hometown:* Upper Marlboro, MD

*Highlights Video*​


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

If I was the GM of the Heat it would be Derrick Rose no question. I have two main reasons for this. 

1) D-Rose runs a team as good as most PG's in the NBA right now, and he excels at running a team. He could run point for the Heat, which would free up Wade to score even more. Although Shaq has tanked and you guys don't have much in the way of bigmen anymore you could always pick up a bigman in the future such as Renardo Sidney, Samardo Samuels, a foreigner, someone like that in a future draft, or even a solid pickup in free agency. 

2) Rose is probably as close to being a sure thing in the 2008 draft class. He is already mucho skilled, has a great attitude, and is uber athletic. If he stays healthy this kid has future superstar written all over him. Beasley has many of the same traits but there have been questions about his work ethic. He is putting up great numbers but I think his game doesn't translate to the NBA as well as Rose's will. 


You couldn't go wrong with either but I would choose Rose.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

hmm, same with me. You can't go wrong with either, whoever we pick (if we hav the pick ofcourse) will be a fair choice.

For now, I'd go with Rose too. Maybe just cause I've seen more of him than Beasley though. I don't like Beasley less or anything but if they made me pick right now, I'd have to go with Rose.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

I take Beasley, but u cant really go wrong with either.

Reason why is simple. We have a great guard who is capable of creating on offense. Beasley would provide us with a guy who can score (something we desperately need), a guy that can rebound (another urgent need) and has the potential to be a very very good SF/PF. He needs to develop his handle a bit more in order to make the jump to SF on the next level, but the guy has an unorthodox, but very effective game. He can face up and shoot the J, can shoot it from deep a little, excellent finisher inside, is active on the offensive glass and seems to be reasonably intense and focused on the court. Ive heard rumblings hes not 'mature'...but hes only what, 19?, hes got plenty of time.

I just feel his skillset is too good to pass up to pair with Wade. 26 and 14 in college are huge numbers...even if it is in a relatively weak conference.

Rose would be exciting to pair with Wade, and the pace and flair of that backcourt would be exhillarating...but i just feel that Beasley would be a better fit for the Heat.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

I dont watch a lot of college bball so dont have a ton of knowelege about both..But with that being said,after i looked at the highlights of Rose, i noticed most of his highlights were scoring. Is he mainly a scoring pg? Or is he somone in the likes of CP3, or Deron Williams?


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

We got to decide what we're going to do with D Wright too, hes a SF...If he is serously in our future plans it almost forces us to go with Rose..


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

The first time I watched Rose I noted his passing. Just a few glimpses, but I saw that his passes were a bit too good for his teammates. Either that or they were just out of control. He's far from a sure thing at this point, unless by "sure thing" you mean Antonio Daniels. 

He can really turn out like Jason Kidd though, that's possible. 

You can't go wrong with Beasley either, playing him and Haslem would greatly benefit us. He's blocked 2 a game in college and if that's any indicator, all it indicates is that he'll barely get to 1 block a game in the NBA. So that leaves us a hole in the defensive anchor spot.


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## Smithian (Apr 3, 2006)

I have to go with Michael Beasley. Our main problems have been small forwards going off on us, rebounding, and a second or third score. That will be fixed. Beasley will keep guys like Luol Deng from killing us(coughplayoffscough). He can also guard smaller power forwards like Antawn Jamison effectively. He has an instinct for rebounding that some players just have, so we no longer have to deal with losing every rebound that is halfway significant. Beasley has great scoring abilitity. He can post up inside, has a good jump shot, etc.

Also, it isn't the hardest thing out there to find a PG who can shoot the three, pass, and play some defense.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Dwyane Wade said:


> I dont watch a lot of college bball so dont have a ton of knowelege about both..But with that being said,after i looked at the highlights of Rose, i noticed most of his highlights were scoring. Is he mainly a scoring pg? Or is he somone in the likes of CP3, or Deron Williams?


He can score and distribute, it's not like he is an AI type prospect.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

An all-Chicago backcourt would be something to watch...


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Dwyane Wade said:


> I dont watch a lot of college bball so dont have a ton of knowelege about both..But with that being said,after i looked at the highlights of Rose, i noticed most of his highlights were scoring. Is he mainly a scoring pg? Or is he somone in the likes of CP3, or Deron Williams?


http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/derrickrose.html



Dwyane Wade said:


> We got to decide what we're going to do with D Wright too, hes a SF...If he is serously in our future plans it almost forces us to go with Rose..It doesnt help when Riley plays Luke Jackson more then Dorell..(30:13 min ratio from last nights game vs the Wiz).


He left the game in the first half with an ankle injury.



Shaq_Diesel said:


> An all-Chicago backcourt would be something to watch...


Another reason I'm intrigued by the potential pairing.

The only thing about Beasley's game that bothers me right now is that he's a tweener in the worst way. What is going to be his natural position in the NBA? Some scouts put him more as a PF, and others have him as more of a SF. He'll either have to improve his handle/footspeed, or gain some more muscle. I don't know how well his game will translate to the NBA.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

Jace said:


> http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/derrickrose.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ohh that explains it, I couldnt watch the game b/c im from DC and i dont got hte local Comcast but got leaguepass/nbatv but htey block it out b/c its a local game


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## Dean the Master (Feb 19, 2006)

I would take Rose.

The Heat have the unstoppable player in Wade already. There is really no reason why to get another highflyer. A great point guard is harder to come around again. Rose is the better option.

LOL, you have Rose's DOB at 1998. He's not even 10 yet. Wait it out man.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Yeah I think part of the reason it has seemed like we need another scorer is Wade is handling too much distribution. If we had that pure point taking care of that, Wade could concentrate on filling it up a little more. Wade is our go to scorer, we just need complimentary scorers around him.


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## KingOfTheHeatians (Jul 22, 2005)

Another thing to consider is that Rose has the potential be a dynamite defender who can defend either guard spot. I don't know how well Beasley will defend at the next level, though I think he'll be a better offensive player than Rose. But Rose has the chance to be a difference maker at both ends.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Dean the Master said:


> I would take Rose.
> 
> The Heat have the unstoppable player in Wade already. There is really no reason why to get another highflyer. A great point guard is harder to come around again. Rose is the better option.
> 
> *LOL, you have Rose's DOB at 1998. He's not even 10 yet. Wait it out man.*


LOL.

I would take Rose. You can't go wrong with either, but if Dorell is going to stay in our future plans, there's no point in taking Beasley, who would just kick Dorell out.


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## DemonaL (Aug 24, 2005)

We need a center, buttttttttt i'd probaly go Wade/Wright/Beasley/Haslem/SHAQ?


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## sknydave (Apr 27, 2006)

They need a center


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## Smithian (Apr 3, 2006)

Dean the Master said:


> LOL, you have Rose's DOB at 1998. He's not even 10 yet. Wait it out man.


Older than Quinn?:whoknows:


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

lol my bad about the birthdate :biggrin:

Anyway, im just worried about how we'd play beasley. Would he play SF or PF for us? And a little afraid that his game won't translate to the NBA level (he won't be as good as what people expect of him).
The other reason for Rose is I'm tired of having a 1 man backcourt where Wade is doubled at halfcourt or denied the ball. And Rose isn't just a scoring guard, he has nice vision and can definately play the point on our team.

And yea, having an all-Illinois backcourt would be pretty sick


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

With the First Overall Pick in the 2008 NBA Draft...

^ Article over at RealGM discussing who the best choice would be for each team if they had the #1 pick (between Beasley, Rose and Mayo).

They have;

Miami - Rose.
Clippers - Rose.
Grizzlies - Beasley/Mayo.
T'wolves - Beasley/Rose.
Kings - Rose.
Sonics - Rose.
Knicks - Rose.
76'ers - Rose.
Wizards - Beasley.

To name a few of the more likely teams.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Kansas State, (Beasley's school) is a Division II school, correct? So his number really wouldn't be anywhere near as impressive. Just watching them, it seems like Rose has a much more potential.


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

Flash is the Future said:


> Kansas State, (Beasley's school) is a Division II school, correct? So his number really wouldn't be anywhere near as impressive. Just watching them, it seems like Rose has a much more potential.


No, K-State is in the Big 12, one of the D1 power conferences. Rose, however, plays on the better team but in the weaker conference.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Oh, OK. I must have misread something.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Beasley, definitely.

Rose can't shoot, making it hard for him to fit next to Wade. They are very similar players. No matter how good the talent is with those guys together, you still need balance. If you have all your talent in the backcourt, then that usually means you'll be thin in the frontcourt. 

Beasley is a great rebounder and scorer. He looks like he can be a dominant inside presence that'll suck defenses in for Wade, and a large player that can step out and stretch the floor for Wade at the same time.

Beasley is more of a scorer and Rose is more of a distributor. I'd rather have a great 2nd option next to Wade and one that can feed off of the defensive attention Wade attracts than someone who will help Wade score, which he can already do fine without a great distributor.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

LamarButler said:


> Beasley, definitely.
> 
> Rose can't shoot, making it hard for him to fit next to Wade. They are very similar players. No matter how good the talent is with those guys together, you still need balance. If you have all your talent in the backcourt, then that usually means you'll be thin in the frontcourt.
> 
> ...


I agree except that Rose is a pointguard and therefore will almost by default have more impact on the game than Beasley can. Atleast with Rose we'd be filling a long-time need, I guess that's my main reason for wanting to pick him for now. I don't wanna go into next season with the Bibby talk *again* and have Beasley revealed as just a scorer/role-player.

But yea, actually I've got them both about the same value right now. Anyone else have doubts about Beasley's game (or how gud it is) translating over to the NBA tho?


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

I do. DraftExpress has his best case scenario as a more athletic Zach Randolph, while Rose's best case scenario is Dwyane Wade/Jason Kidd.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

LamarButler said:


> Beasley, definitely.
> 
> Rose can't shoot, making it hard for him to fit next to Wade. They are very similar players. No matter how good the talent is with those guys together, you still need balance. If you have all your talent in the backcourt, then that usually means you'll be thin in the frontcourt.
> 
> ...



This is completely off base, maybe you could be right in the long run but I just don't see it. Beasley is a tweener, not an inside presence. He is athletic, and skilled enough to play down low but he isn't very strong which makes you wonder how durable he is. I watched him for the first time tonight and he didn't impress me much against a very thin Xavier frontcourt who he should have dominated. Obviously his guards struggled to get him the ball but when he did get the ball he struggled to create much of anything scoring the ball (I fell asleep at halftime so I didn't see the second half). He is the best rebounder I have seen in a long time but I question whether he has the intangibles outside of basketball skills, and athleticism to be great. Billy Walker looked better than Beasley in the first half today outside of rebounding the ball. 

Rose is a similar style player to Wade yes, but Rose is a much better PG prospect. He runs a team better than most NBA PG's right now. You look at the fact that he scores 15-20 points a night and say well he plays like Wade. The reason he scores so many points is because he plays in an uptempo style that suits his athleticism. He can beat anybody in college basketball off the dribble in the halfcourt, and he is a fast break demon similar to Dee Brown when he was at Illinois. If he was a complete Dwayne Wade clone Memphis probably wouldn't be undefeated right now. His assist numbers aren't what they could be because Memphis offense is predicated on players slashing to the bucket and creating opportunities off the bounce. Your right his shot does need some work but his mechanics look a ton better than what they were in High School. Rose is the safe, and smart pick here. Wade has never had a great PG running with him, and Miami could always pick up a big guy who has proven himself in the NBA. Miami needs to rebuild and by setting themselves up with a great, athletic backcourt for possibly ten years is a great start. They can always acquire a frontcourt player through free agency. Neither player would be a bad pick in this situation, but IMO Miami would be crazy not to select Rose.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

PG: Rose/??
SG: Wade/Cook
SF: Dorell/??
PF: UD/??
C: Shaq/Barron

We need another trade for youth, but I agree. I think we're better off with Rose. I've seen Beasley compared to Carmelo. I suppose that wouldn't be so bad.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Flash is the Future said:


> PG: Rose/??
> SG: Wade/Cook
> SF: Dorell/??
> PF: UD/??
> ...


IMO Miami needs to rebuild, obviously I don't follow them as much so myabe you could give me a better insight Flash. But if you are in need of rebuilding why not shore up your backcourt of the future for a possible 5-10 years then add the other pieces around them. Rose/Wade has the potential to be the best backcourt in the NBA a couple of years after Rose begins his career.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Oh, I think we all agree. Shaq's no longer a force, so it's time for DWade to have a young team around him. I like Wade+Rose too. Especially because Riles said this summer that what we need most is another version of DWade.


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## sknydave (Apr 27, 2006)

And how does that address the Shaq no longer a force issue?


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Wade and Rose in the backcourt would be nice, but I cant pass up the 20-10 possibility.

How many guys are actually good for 20 and 10 a night?

Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan (not this year, but u know hes good for it), Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudemire, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Al Jefferson, Antawn Jamison, Kevin Garnett and Zach Randoplh. Those are some pretty good names, and a 20-10 guy would help us so much. I know the potential of a Wade/Rose backcourt would be great, but you need more than just a great backcourt to get anywhere in this league. Beasley will be a 20-10 guy.

I wouldnt be mad if we ended up with Derrick Rose though, not at all.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Rose just seems like he has the potential to be better. I mean, look at the 2003 draft. Looking back, would you rather have Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh?


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

BG44 said:


> Wade and Rose in the backcourt would be nice, but I cant pass up the 20-10 possibility.
> 
> How many guys are actually good for 20 and 10 a night?
> 
> ...


That's the thing I'm worried about, that Beasley might not be a 20/10 guy in the NBA.
He's a big risk in my opinion, he could end up a scorer but really a roleplayer. Mainly because of his size, but also his skillset looks like it might not carry over to the NBA, and there've been questions about his work ethic (I don't worry about this myself but just throwing it out there).


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Rose on the other hand seems to have all the talent in the world, in addition to being more than solid on defense, something Beasley doesn't appear to be.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Flash is the Future said:


> Rose just seems like he has the potential to be better. I mean, look at the 2004 draft. Looking back, _would you rather have Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh?_


If I already had a great superstar wing, I'd get Chris Bosh. If Wade looked like he would become better than that wing, then I would pick Wade then ship that wing out.

That situation mirrors what is going on now. Say if both Beasley and Rose become All-Stars but Rose is slightly better, I'd still rather have Beasley with Wade. This isn't a question of who'll be better, it's a question of who'll be better _with Wade.
_
And Beasley would be better with Wade rather than Rose because of the simple fact that Beasley is less similar and has different skills to bring to cover things Wade can't do and skills that'll compliment Wade.

Beasley's inside-out game complements Wade nicely. He can step out and shoot the J, which is effective in spreading the floor for Wade's drives and punishing teams for swarming on Wade when he drives. Beasley's size makes it so that Beasley can finish dumpoffs/alley-oops/feeds from Wade. Beasley just seems like he would play better off the ball, which is important when playing next to a ball-dominating guard who isn't a great spot up shooter.

Beasley also brings rebounding. Wade's potential in this category is only so great. He needs someone to rebound the ball for him.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Wow, I can't believe I wrote 2004 draft :banghead:

I agree with you that we need a big, but I think there's a reason why in the NBA you don't draft by need - you take the best player available. And in this case, I feel that that's Derrick Rose.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

I totally agree. Thanks for the insight. I haven't seen Beasley play yet, but I'm worried he's going to pan out as more of a SF than a PF.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Hibbert!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Flash is the Future said:


> Wow, I can't believe I wrote 2004 draft :banghead:
> 
> I agree with you that we need a big, but I think there's a reason why in the NBA you don't draft by need - you take the best player available. And in this case, I feel that that's Derrick Rose.


As I said, Rose might turn out to be better, but not necessarily better _with Wade._ Rose doesn't cover Wade's weaknesses or do things that Wade can't. They wouldn't seem to feed off of each other either. Rose and Wade are both slashers. So when Wade drives, and the defense swarms him, what's he gonna do? Pass it out to Rose so he can drive again? You gotta have someone who can shoot next to Wade. Wade is already one of the best creators in the NBA, why would you want to pair him up with a guy who does the same exact thing?


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

LamarButler said:


> As I said, Rose might turn out to be better, but not necessarily better _with Wade._ Rose doesn't cover Wade's weaknesses or do things that Wade can't. They wouldn't seem to feed off of each other either. Rose and Wade are both slashers. So when Wade drives, and the defense swarms him, what's he gonna do? Pass it out to Rose so he can drive again? You gotta have someone who can shoot next to Wade. Wade is already one of the best creators in the NBA, why would you want to pair him up with a guy who does the same exact thing?


IDK, but Pat Riley said this summer that what we need most at SF is a guy who can do the same things as Dwyane Wade. And I like I said, you take the best talent, not the best fit.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Flash is the Future said:


> IDK, but Pat Riley said this summer that what we need most at SF is a guy who can do the same things as Dwyane Wade. And I like I said, you take the best talent, not the best fit.


Yea, but you act like Derrick Rose is head and shoulders above Beasley talent-wise.

Beasley doesn't only fit better, but his talent is right up there with Rose, maybe even better.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> As I said, Rose might turn out to be better, but not necessarily better _with Wade._ Rose doesn't cover Wade's weaknesses or do things that Wade can't. They wouldn't seem to feed off of each other either. Rose and Wade are both slashers. So when Wade drives, and the defense swarms him, what's he gonna do? Pass it out to Rose so he can drive again? You gotta have someone who can shoot next to Wade. Wade is already one of the best creators in the NBA, why would you want to pair him up with a guy who does the same exact thing?


Rose creates in different ways than Dwyane, who is also very turnover prone when constantly handling. Also, Rose would be able to guard other PGs way better than Wade could. I also think Rose's jumper will come along. There's nothing wrong with having two guards who attack the rim aggressively.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-draft-forum/388439-lets-say-miami-gets-1-pick.html

The thread I posted in the NBA Draft forum. You guys should check out that forum. We should be very interested in this year's draft!


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Fun to see our Beasley/Rose debates from the XX season. This was from way before we were even clearly destined for a top-pick (Dec 07).



Jace said:


> The only thing about Beasley's game that bothers me right now is that he's a tweener in the worst way. What is going to be his natural position in the NBA? Some scouts put him more as a PF, and others have him as more of a SF. He'll either have to improve his handle/footspeed, or gain some more muscle. I don't know how well his game will translate to the NBA.


Love Smithi's post in here saying Beasley will shutdown opposing SFs. Don't read it Smithi! You'll puke!


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Goddamnit Beasley. Weed, tattoos, and hair. That's all we got out of him.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Let the record show that I was supporting Hibbert in 2008.

I must admit I eat crow for Rose though. I thought that he was mentally weak and a choker after I saw him defer in the final seconds against Chalmers but I stand by my Hibbert support!


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Well, I'd still rather have Kevin Love than Hibbert. Call me crazy, though. Of course, no one knew he'd be what he became.

Even Lopez vs. Hibbert is a tough call.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jace said:


> Well, I'd still rather have Kevin Love than Hibbert. Call me crazy, though. Of course, no one knew he'd be what he became.
> 
> *Even Lopez vs. Hibbert is a tough call.*


It sure as **** isn't.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Jace said:


> Well, I'd still rather have Kevin Love than Hibbert. Call me crazy, though. Of course, no one knew he'd be what he became.
> 
> Even Lopez vs. Hibbert is a tough call.


People forget how bad hibbert was till the infamous "verticality" reffing during the Heat and Knicks series.

He's a product of stern to stop Lebron.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

R-Star, you're right. It's pretty clear-cut for Lopez now that I look into it. At least at the moment. If Lopez were a defensive liability, I'd say it's about even or give it to Hibbert, but his production is too far ahead of Hibbert's for the defensive difference to make up for it.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jace said:


> R-Star, you're right. It's pretty clear-cut for Lopez now that I look into it. At least at the moment. If Lopez were a defensive liability, I'd say it's about even or give it to Hibbert, but his production is too far ahead of Hibbert's for the defensive difference to make up for it.


You're kidding right? Lopez is known by pretty much everyone who watches basketball as one of the worst defensive centers in the game. So for you to say "Well if he were a defensive liability" shows you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Being all offense and no defense is what Lopez is unanimously known for. To compare that to one of if not the best defensive center in the league at the moment is asinine.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Lost cause.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

R-Star said:


> *You're kidding right?* Lopez is known by pretty much everyone who watches basketball as one of the worst defensive centers in the game. So for you to say "Well if he were a defensive liability" shows you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
> 
> Being all offense and no defense is what Lopez is unanimously known for. To compare that to one of if not the best defensive center in the league at the moment is asinine.


Jace, you could have said that Lebron is better than Lance Stephenson and Rap-Star would be been like "Are you kidding!?!?"


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Nah. Seeing as I routinely call Lebron the best player in the league, call the Heat the best team in the league, say how when Wade is on the top of his game they can't be beat, etc, etc, then no. That's a pretty dumb statement.


See the difference between us is I'm actually not running around yelling "Look at me! Look at me!" like some stunted red headed stepchild who everyone ignores. I like my team, but they have flaws that I have no problem pointing out. I have no problems saying a teams better, players better, and so on. 


Why you continue to try to bait me and then leave the forum for a few days after I put you in your place is beyond me. But I don't mind the minute or two it takes so keep it up if you'd like.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Drizzay just stop posting. Please.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Wow, I can't believe I am agreeing with R-Star, on multiple replies...

Lopez vs Hibbert is a non issue. Lopez plays worst D than K-Love and he can't even grab 7 boards as the starting 7 footer of his team.

I think K-Love is the better player but I would still pick Hibbert over Love. Hibbert is a defensive anchor. That is very rare nowadays. He might not score as much as Lopez but we saw the damage that he can do under the rim with his size and trust me, he's only going to get better. 

He avg almost 17/10 in the post season. I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a 20/10 player in the next 2-3 years.

Jace, I consistenly respect your opinion but I think you are really blind on this one.

If we don't consider TD, KG, and Bosh as Centers, I have Hibbert in the top 4.

In no order:

Marc Gasol
Noah
Hibbert
Howard

Bynum would most likely round up the top 5 depending on how he plays. If he is at the level he was, he'd be up there. 

The next tier is:
Varajao
Lopez
Gortat
Bogut
Chandler
Cousins

Up and Coming:
Larry Sanders
Pekovic
Greg Monroe
Andre Drummond
and maybe Asik.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

I did get carried away giving it flat-out to Lopez, I'll admit. You guys have to realize Brook has improved defensively, though. He's no longer a liability. His team sucked there because their personnel sucks there. I think it's kind of a toss-up over the two depending on what you need from your team. I'll admit I was initially swayed heavily by the sizable PER gap, even as I take into account its limited defensive efficacy representation. I'll say this: Hibbert has the higher ceiling. He has a better chance of getting his offense to a high level than Lopez does of his D. Last season, though, I'd say Brook did at least as much for his team as Hibbert did for his, pre-Playoffs, of course.


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