# The steal of last 5 years!



## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I'd have to go with Ginobili!

of course we got G.Arenas(31st) but i think in time after a little ajustment to the league Ginobili is gonna be better(57thpick at 99)!


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Ginobili=Overrated

People talk about him like he's already a superstar. He didn't even average double figures last year, settle down people!!! He has potential, but jeez....:sour:


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I think on court he's a genious!!
and i'm not SA fan!


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## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

*Ginobili overrated, thats a good one*

The guy is amazing, his passing is money and nobody plays defense anybody. He can play pg, sg and SF and has.

He was the Spurs second best player in the finals.

You think the Spurs think he is overrated? Why do you think the SPURS are so concerned about losing him to free agency. He will get MAX next year for sure.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I forget where I heard it, but I believe Giniobili had the highest plus/minus value in the entire league last season (IE the Spurs outscored their opponent by more points with him on the court than any other team with any other player). He could have averaged 1 PPG and I'd still say he was incredibly valuable if his presence on the court meant that much to the Spurs. There's more to being a special player than just putting up heaps of points


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## Jwill55gRizZ (Jun 8, 2003)

He is not getting a MAX contract next year.. Even if/when his production goes up a bit.. I still dont see any conceivable ways he could put up MAX type numbers.. Hedo will get a lot of touches, Nesterovic needs his, Parker will need his, stephen jackson likes going one on one a lot.. Even if they let go one of the above players.. Ginnobli can't get above 17 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals.. Great numbers, if he can attain these numbers, that still is not a max contract.. 

This Year:
PPG 7.6 
RPG 2.30 
APG 2.0 
SPG 1.6
FT 73.7%
3PT 34.5 %
MPG: 20.7

In The playoffs
PPG 9.4
RPG 3.8
APG 2.9
SPG 1.71
FT 75.7 %
3PT 38.4%
MPG 27.5


Keep in mind that Nesterovic is a bigger offensive presence than Robinson was last year..

Hedo Turkoglu has been dubbed the next peja, im skeptical, however he will force people to guard him or they will be sorry.. He is an upgrade offensively to Bowen.. 

Ginnobli might not even start next year. Although i think he deserves to. Stephen Jackson, bruce bowen, Hedo Turkoglu, and himself have to fight over the sg/sf.. that means that Ginnobli's minutes can get that high, so it'd be hard to see him flourish..


96 Minutes to be divided by 4 players 

Bruce Bowens- Lead league in 3pt percentage, and shot better from beyond the arc then he did from the charity stripe. Defensive Demon, naturally is assigned to the best 2/3 that night. Isn't the offensive player of Manu..

Hedo Turkoglu- Acquired from Sacremento. He is great offensively, and like Ginnobli is waiting to have a breakout season, this could cause both to try to shoot more.. Unlikely, however, a distinct possibility

Stephen Jackson- He got 33.8 minutes in the playoffs .. Averaged 12.8 points, 2.7 apg, 4.1 rpg, 80.3% from the stripe, 33.6% from 3pt, and a bad turnover to assist ration of 1.1:1 essentially with 2.8 turnovers per game. Including 4.33 in the NBA Finals.

You also have Ron Mercer who came off of a bad year, but put up similar numbers to Ginnobli..

and you have Steve Kerr who will get garbage minutes..


96 minutes divided by 6 (really 5) players would mean that each player would get around 20 minutes.. but thats not realistic.. players will all have to make adjustments.. Hedo needs his minutes, bowen needs to defend the best scorer, stephen jackson started at the two very well last year, and mercer is still capable of offensive fury in odd games.. All this adds up and consequently i do not think that Ginnobli will get enough touches, and is not that great of a player yet to demand a max contract. In all likelihood he will sign for just above the midlevel exception.. 

Thoughts?


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Ginobili overrated, thats a good one*



> Originally posted by <b>benfica</b>!He will get MAX next year for sure.








:no:


He may be a great pLayer and up and coming star, but he WILL NOT GET A MAX CONTRACT, THAT IS LUDICROUS.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jwill55gRizZ</b>!
> He is not getting a MAX contract next year.. Even if/when his production goes up a bit.. I still dont see any conceivable ways he could put up MAX type numbers.. Hedo will get a lot of touches, Nesterovic needs his, Parker will need his, stephen jackson likes going one on one a lot.. Even if they let go one of the above players.. Ginnobli can't get above 17 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals.. Great numbers, if he can attain these numbers, that still is not a max contract..
> 
> ?


Manu may not be worth max , but he will reach better nums!
20 p , 7 a , 6 r , 3 st , 1 bk!
allarounder!he cannot be mended by nums only!!


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Manu may not be worth max , but he will reach better nums!
> ...








Noone sed he had bad #'s or wasn't very smart on the court, we just said he is not a MAX PLAYER. His name isn't T-Mac, Kobe, Shaq, Pierce, Duncan, Garnett, etc.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Shard Lewis?


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Manu may not be worth max , but he will reach better nums!
> ...


I enjoy watching Ginobili play and I like his game, but those numbers are ridiculous. I wouldn't be surprised if he averaged HALF the numbers you posted. Seriously, Ginobili is extremely overrated right now. My prediction for his numbers:

12 pts, 4 dimes, 4 boards, 2 steals, 30 mpg

Good numbers, but not worth a huge contract, not even close to the max.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Max contract? LMMFAO

The guy right now is a solid role player. He'll getb etter with more playing time. But he certainly isn't going to be that good.

Right now, I would not pay him more than the mle. If he has another solid season, I could see his price raising a bit, but certainly not anywhere near max type money.

That is ridiculous.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

No way he is gettin the max


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

Rashard Lewis


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## JonMatrix (Apr 8, 2003)

For the finals,where someone said Manu was the second best player on the floor he averaged 2.0 assists and 1.67 TO per game and shot 34% from the field.

Anyways,the steal of the last 5 years is Rashard Lewis.


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## BobbyDigital32 (Mar 16, 2003)

GeorgiaSports and bunk 22 seem to be the only people who know what they're talking about on this thread.


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## Markoishvili (Jul 21, 2003)

Ginobili will be 6th man of the year.


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## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> Ginobili=Overrated
> 
> People talk about him like he's already a superstar. He didn't even average double figures last year, settle down people!!! He has potential, but jeez....:sour:


 :no: :dead: :sigh: :sour: :upset:


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

All that say that i overrate Ginobili - talk to me in 2 yrs.

though i said he's not a max player!


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Ginobili overrated, thats a good one*



> Originally posted by <b>CeLtZ in 04</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First thing Celtz in o4' has ever said that I agree 100% on.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Rashard Lewis is easily a bigger steal than Ginobili, Lewis in the Second Round!?!?!? Cuttino Mobley was a steal too, Mid-Second Round.


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## lakerking8 (Jul 5, 2003)

*Rashard*

I would definately go with Rashard Lewis. He is nice.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

RL and Cuttino great steals.

I stay with Ginobili cause i believe he's gonna be the better player in close future.

he was 57th which means nobody else considered the guy!


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Manu Ginobili will not recieve Max contract.

He will probably get something like $50 Million for 6 years... or a shorter $32 Million for 3 year contract.




Steal of the last 5 years?

Rashard Lewis considering he was drafted outside first round... and middle 2nd round.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Whatever you think of Ginobili... with his combination of athletic ability and creative passing skills, he is a major steal at 57 or 58 or wherever it was he was picked. He is going to start next season for the league's top team, how many 58th picks can say that.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Rashard does not count in this thread since he was drafted 32nd at 1998 and there were 5 drafts since.Cuttino same year at 41st.

still also in the 10 years thread i prefer Manu at 57th!


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Markoishvili</b>!
> Ginobili will be 6th man of the year.


That's not worth the max, and I don't think he will ever be WORTH a max, but it will be given to him if the spurs don't re-sign him (and he goes somewhere else). And to answer the first question, maybe not a steal perse' but a sleeper last year was Tayshaun prince to Detroit. He might be a solid scorer for the Pistons. Plus he's a proven clutch player.


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## Ryoga (Aug 31, 2002)

Gino's a SG. He can even play PG or SF, but he's a SG.
That's the easiest position to fill, you need to be really a superstar to pretend a max offer, and it's a tough TOUGH call to think that Manu will improve up to that point.

BTW, I'm telling you this: if he adapts the mid range game he had here to the NBA quickness and phisical game, than he'll probably be a borderline all star. It still won't be enough for a max contract, but sure it will be for a 60-70M$ one...


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## BigMike (Jun 12, 2002)

It has to be either Rashard Lewis or Dirk Nowitzki


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## tdizzle (Apr 12, 2003)

2001 Draft:

31st: Gilbert Arenas 

2000 Draft:

43rd: Michael Redd 

1999 Draft:

40th: Gordan Giricek 

57th: Emmanuel Ginobili 

1998 Draft:

32nd: Rashard Lewis 

41st: Cuttino Mobley


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

ummm cmon wheres the love for Ozzy here????


Rick Rickert OFCOURSE...


I mean he almost didnt get drafted!


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## mofo202 (Apr 28, 2003)

Deffinately Gilbert Arenas.....


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## Markoishvili (Jul 21, 2003)

Luis Scola-play in Spain, drafted by San Antonio.
Ginobili is overrated, he is not better then Giricek and Giricek is peace of ****.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Markoishvili</b>!
> Luis Scola-play in Spain, drafted by San Antonio.
> Ginobili is overrated, he is not better then Giricek and Giricek is peace of ****.


I agree Scola is a good pick by SA seeing him in Europe quite a lot.

I don't agree Manu is overrated,i think he's a diamond on court!


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## Thorgal (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Ginobili overrated, thats a good one*



> Originally posted by <b>benfica</b>!
> He will get MAX next year for sure.


 {about Manu}

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

Salary starting at aprox. 6.5mln at best!!!


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Caron Butler

maybe even Rasaul Butler in the near future


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It's conceviable that Manu could get near a max contract. Think about it in terms of what the spurs will have to pay to keep him. Manu's numbers won't be kept down because of him, but because he plays a team game. So he could do a 17/5/4 season and make the all-star team and get a lot of interest in free agency.

And he will start. Hedo may not start. People act like that's a foregone conclusion, but Hedo doesn't play defense, so Pop will probably elect to go with Manu and Bowen on his wings to start games, and then bring in Hedo and Mercer in the second unit.

Probably with Mercer and Ginobilli's ball handling skills, he'll probably play Hedo, Mercer, and Manu at the same time while he's resting Tony Parker.

Don't worry about Manu getting minutes next season. Pop limited him this season because of his ankle injury, and it being his rookie year.

either Manu or Tony Parker is going to the all-star game next season with Tim Duncan, and it's probably going to be Manu or both.




As far as steals, I gotta go with Manu and Rashard. Though this last season was a big disapointment with Rashard, because he never asserted himself as the franchise player, and now that Ray Allen is there, he may not ever get to that potential.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

i'd say his contract would probably start at 8-9 mil.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Markoishvili</b>!
> Ginobili will be 6th man of the year.


nope troy hudson will be, and troy hudson was the biggest steal in the last 5 years, he wasnt even drafted


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## Izlar (Nov 13, 2002)

Neither Tony Parker or Manu will be in the All-Star Game next year. I also doubt that Ginobili will make more money in his second contract than Corey Maggette. Maggette is younger than Ginobili and they are similar in their playing style. They are comparable defenders and both are good at slicing through a defence. Ginobili had a good run of games during the playoffs just as Mike Bibby did against the Lakers. Because of this, Ginobili has been overrated and might also become overpaid.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Izlar</b>!
> Neither Tony Parker or Manu will be in the All-Star Game next year. I also doubt that Ginobili will make more money in his second contract than Corey Maggette. Maggette is younger than Ginobili and they are similar in their playing style. They are comparable defenders and both are good at slicing through a defence. Ginobili had a good run of games during the playoffs just as Mike Bibby did against the Lakers. Because of this, Ginobili has been overrated and might also become overpaid.


on TP i tend to agree.
Manu on the other hand has a good chance of making Allstar.he is so much smarter on courtr then C.M and this year he will get his share of Mnts.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> 
> nope troy hudson will be, and troy hudson was the biggest steal in the last 5 years, he wasnt even drafted








He's aLso not consistent. And you are a WoLves fan. Of course you are going to say he's the biggest steaL, even though he's not.


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## Spooner (Aug 6, 2003)

Why did you capitalize all the L's in your post, are you having trouble with your shift key?

Micheal redd is by far the best steal, he is going to have a breakout year, and probably lead the league in 3 point percentage.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> 
> nope troy hudson will be, and troy hudson was the biggest steal in the last 5 years, he wasnt even drafted



Besides his nice playoff run what has troy hudson done to prove he was a " steal".


I think drafting rashard lewis at 32 was the biggest steal. That kid will be very good one day. Arenas- I think it's to early to make a prediction.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Manu is right there but Lampe has a chance to be the biggest steal in the last 20 years.


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## SlavkoVranes (Jul 22, 2003)

Lampe is amazing He is like your chris mullen. I will also be a great steal, you will see.


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## Izlar (Nov 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Besides his nice playoff run what has troy hudson done to prove he was a " steal".


You can also say that abot Ginobili. He only had a nice playoff run just like Hudson


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Izlar</b>!
> 
> 
> You can also say that abot Ginobili. He only had a nice playoff run just like Hudson



No, in his first NBA year, as a rookie with a rolled ankle he ranked #2 in steals per 48 minutes, he did this with about 10 minutes less of playing time with hudson.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Lampe may be a steal but i dont think he will ever be as good as Manu will!


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## Spooner (Aug 6, 2003)

Anyone think Finely was a steal at #21


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## RunToFreeForFly (Jul 16, 2003)

Finely just a decent player, not a star anyway. deserve to be a 21# pick. :laugh:


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RunToFreeForFly</b>!
> Finely just a decent player, not a star anyway. deserve to be a 21# pick. :laugh:


Decent player? I hope you're joking. If the 95 draft was done over, he'd be drafted anywhere from #2-5.


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## Spooner (Aug 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RunToFreeForFly</b>!
> Finely just a decent player, not a star anyway. deserve to be a 21# pick. :laugh:





:rofl: 




A two time all-star who not only has a great jumpshot but, nearly won the slam dunk contest?

Finely is a star. He is arguably one of the top 5 SG's in this league. Most people here have no memory whatsoever so he doesn't get respect.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spooner</b>!
> Anyone think Finely was a steal at #21


he's a great steal at 21! the only player better then Fin in that draft that was chosen before is KG and maby Rasheed(i'd take Fin)


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## Jermyzy (Feb 26, 2003)

Sprewell was a late first round pick also wasn't he? (i know this was longer than 5 years ago)


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## Clinton Boswell (Aug 10, 2003)

Bill Laimbeer i believe was a 4th round pick


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## dmase_24 (Feb 1, 2003)

in the last 5 years, i would say michael redd. like spooner said, he probably will break out this coming season.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Troy Hudson or Brad Miller or David Wesley. All undrafted players who are now very solid players in the NBA. Ginobili is exceptionally overrated and so is Amare Stoudemire. Caron Butler shoulda been ROY. Ginobili will get 4-5 million coz he really isnt that good. Hes a good hustle player and bench guy but cmon, hes no all-star. In Europe yes, NBA no. He probably wont even start for the Spurs next year.

PG-Parker
SG-Turkoglu
SF-Bowen
PF-Duncan
C-Nesterovic

Turkoglu is a betta version of Ginobili and hes taller. Bowen has better defense on the perimeter and no way is he replacing Parker.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Big Ben undrafted


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

Give Ginobli the Max, i dont know why everyone is against that. It means the spurs will be tied up financially eventually and your favorite team will get the fruits of them dumping qaulity players, he isnt worth the contract but unless you are a spurs fan what is it to you. And im not and i hope my team gets a steal of a deal when the spurs have to cut payroll.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

PAUL PIERCE!!!!!!


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

d) TRADE: San Antonio trade the rights to #29 Leon Smith to Dallas for the 
rights to #40 Gordan Giricek and Dallas' 2000 2nd round draft pick.




TERRIBLE

yall are also forgetting about carlos boozer being a sleeper. he was picked 35th and put up VERY good numbers last year


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Amare Stoudemire

A ROY PF? Coming straight out of highschool? Exciting? Great athlete? Franchise player?

You should never get that at #9.


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## BarrettTZ12 (Aug 26, 2003)

Paul Pierce is the biggest steal of the past few years. A franchise player whom I believe is the best jump shooter in the league.

Question for those infatuated with Ginobili: Personally I don't like the guy but I believe he does make big plays in key situations (steal on Lucious Harris in Finals) and has potential... but is it just me or does it look like he's about to fall flat on his face when he is dribbling up-court?


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Amare Stoudemire
> 
> A ROY PF? Coming straight out of highschool? Exciting? Great athlete? Franchise player?
> ...


It happened at 10, paul Pierce, plus HS kids should be picked lower caus they need time to develop, you were the exception, unless you are planning on averaging 40ppg 30rpg 10apg. But PP was Is a Franchise player, A great athlete, And exciting to watch and has the complete package, and works hard to improve himself.

Fun Fact, only a years difference between PP and Amare in their rookie season, yet there was 3 years of Education.Anyways here are the stats for their rookie years.

PP 16.5ppg/6.4rpg/2.4apg/1.71spg/1.04bpg
AS 13.5ppg/8.8rpg/1.0apg/0.76spg/1.06bpg


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