# Bulls after Magloire?/MAGLOIRE TRADED TO MILWAUKEE



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.nypost.com/sports/53784.htm

granted, it's vecsey, in the post, and he spells his name wrong, but...it makes sense.



> Another name on loose lips is *Jamaal Magliore*. Sources say the Pacers, Grizzlies, *Bulls*, Clippers, Hawks, and Blazers are all over the Hornets regarding their All-Star (two seasons back) center, who'd really rather leave but is keeping a low profile so his exodus can be handled professionally.
> 
> Supposedly, there's something semi-serious in the works involving Magliore and Corey Maggette, but my L.A. pipeline somewhat devalues that floating perception. While admitting there has been some talk along those lines, he states he can't see it happening — unless the deal is expanded mightily to include J.R. Smith.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

There ya go Paxson. I hope this is true. Get it done (if healthy, of course!  ).


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

We'd be in REAL good shape if we got magloire...but WHO would NO want for him??


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



mizenkay said:


> http://www.nypost.com/sports/53784.htm
> 
> granted, it's vecsey, in the post, and he spells his name wrong, but...it makes sense.


Yeah, it makes tons of sense for the Bulls. He's 27 years old, plays PF/C, has a nice balance of scoring, rebounding, and defense...and wants to escape the NBA cellar. We have the assets to make it work. Send over Tim Thomas + whatever draft picks the Hornets want. 

Not sure why the Clippers want him though. They have a nice 3-man rotation at the bigs in Brand, Kaman, and Wilcox. And if they traded Maggette, then they become very thin on the wing. Doesn't make a lick of sense.


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



yodurk said:


> Yeah, it makes tons of sense for the Bulls. He's 27 years old, plays PF/C, has a nice balance of scoring, rebounding, and defense...and wants to escape the NBA cellar. We have the assets to make it work. Send over Tim Thomas + whatever draft picks the Hornets want.
> 
> Not sure why the Clippers want him though. They have a nice 3-man rotation at the bigs in Brand, Kaman, and Wilcox. And if they traded Maggette, then they become very thin on the wing. Doesn't make a lick of sense.


they're trying to get "Junior" aka JR smith


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

So we would trade TT for cap relief and our two draft picks, i assume the knicks pick is a lotto pick for magloire and i assume one of our big me (sweets) and magloire would start along with chandler.

That would be, along with deng the best starting defensive front court in the nba,


david


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Magilore should be somewhat costly.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



kamego said:


> Magilore should be somewhat costly.


Right. Keep in mind that to get Magloire, we'd have to outbid all those other teams for his services. The fact that we have most likely have couple of first rounders next year gives us some solid bargaining chips.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

If the Clips are really offering Maggette then there is really nothing we can give them to compete. This team drafted Chris Paul so Hinrich/Gordon are out. So Luol Deng and draft picks would probably get atleast a look from NO. However, I think Deng will be a better player in 2 years. Magliore has also stated his preference is to be dealt to Toronto.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Wow. A young, productive center seems like a valuable commodity. Its going to take a lot to get one I guess.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Darius Miles Davis said:


> Right. Keep in mind that to get Magloire, we'd have to outbid all those other teams for his services. The fact that we have most likely have couple of first rounders next year gives us some solid bargaining chips.


I'd argue that Noc and two picks would make quite a bit more sense for the Hornets than Maggette.

First, Maggette is more of an SG, whereas Noc is a true SF. the Hornets have JR Smith and that Lithuanian guy to help them at SG. Noc has a more favorable contract as well, and although he's admittedly not as good a player the Hornets could really use the picks in their rebuilding effort.

Second, I'd be willing to offer them several million in cap relief by swapping Tim Thomas and PJ Brown. That'd put them on even more solid rebuilding footing and give us the team leader we appear to be lacking.

I think that beats Maggette.

On the downside, I'm really not at all sure Magloire is worth all that (because taking on PJ Brown and him would effectively be using our cap space as well). He is, really and truly a beefier version of Chandler with slightly better offense but without the super athletic rebounding ability. He's similarly a nice defender. But his hands and his offensive game are very reminiscent of Tyson's though, and that's not a complement.

Point his, he's a very good player, but I question whether he's a very good fit to play with Tyson. I could well see them getting in each others' way on both offense and defense.

While a guy like Brezec isn't as good a player, if he's available it might well take less to get him (giving us more picks and cap space to use in other places!) and he'd be a better fit for who he'll play with, thus maximizing the positive effect on the court (whereas a guy like Magloire wouldn't be used to his best potential even though he's a better overall player).


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> I'd argue that Noc and two picks would make quite a bit more sense for the Hornets than Maggette.
> 
> First, Maggette is more of an SG, whereas Noc is a true SF. the Hornets have JR Smith and that Lithuanian guy to help them at SG. Noc has a more favorable contract as well, and although he's admittedly not as good a player the Hornets could really use the picks in their rebuilding effort.
> 
> ...


i agree... i think giviing up TWO picks and anyone for magloire is giving up TOO much
if we can trade Tim Thomas and a pick for magloire then i'd do it

but we mite be able to trade Pike and a 2nd rounder but proly a first rounder for Brezec and we wouldn't have to tie up our cap space for next year and find the player that would put us over the edge

possible Nene


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

While a good, well balanced center would be great, the Bull's immediate need is a center who is a defensive presence so that a) the Bulls defense will not have to dramatically readjust stratigically when Tyson is on the bench and b) so that if Tyson gets injured, the season is not over. Kalvin Cato or Battie would fit that bill.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

I'd go for this. Magloire is more of a Skiles and Paxson type player than Curry was. I'd say that Tim Thomas, the New York Knicks 2006 1st rounder, and Andres Nocioni could get it done.


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## nybullsfan (Aug 12, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Thats what i'am talking about get it done pax we got the pieces


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

we NEED al harrington if we can't get magloire...

i'm serious..harrington is better than sweets and tim thomas..


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## Chi-City (Jul 13, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

They're not going to trade Noc. Pike, TT, and all expiring contracts and draft picks. Hornets would want to rebuild since they are a young team. up and coming


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Trading for Magloire will mess up Pax's plan of 2006 FA market. But I think Noce or Duhon, Pat, and Knicks' pick for Magloire is good. 

Magloire
Chandler
Deng
Gordon
Hinrich

the combination of Magloire, Deng, Chandler, and Hinrich shoudl cover any lack of defensive of Ben.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

I think it would take too much to get Magliore. And isn't he a FA after the season? A FA who already has expressed a strong desire to return to his native Canada?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

http://www.nola.com/hornets/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1130133737133590.xml


*DENIES IT: Scott refuted a report in Sunday's New York Post that the Hornets are considering trade offers for starting center Jamaal Magloire. In June, however, the Hornets explored trading Magloire to the Toronto Raptors for their two first-round picks. Magloire declined comment before Sunday's game.*


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

If he's really hell-bent on going to Toronto... add the Raptors to the list of improving teams.

Bosh/Maglorie with Chuck V coming off the bench?

Let's hope Sweetney stays away from the buffet.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



> Yeah, it makes tons of sense for the Bulls. He's 27 years old, plays PF/C, has a nice balance of scoring, rebounding, and defense...*and wants to escape the NBA cellar*.





> Magliore has also stated his preference is to be dealt to Toronto.


That's an oxymoron if i ever saw one.
Magloire/ Nene would be nice pickups, but i think we need to turn to Al Harrington, i'd say he's more the offensive force we're after.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



kukoc4ever said:


> If he's really hell-bent on going to Toronto... add the Raptors to the list of improving teams.
> 
> Bosh/Maglorie with Chuck V coming off the bench?
> 
> Let's hope Sweetney stays away from the buffet.


That's a nice frontcourt, but Toronto still has one of the worst perimeter combos in the league. And they have a long ways to go in ridding themselves on the "losing culture".


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Would anyone do this deal? Tim Thomas for Nesterovic and Brent Barry?


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



The ROY said:


> we NEED al harrington if we can't get magloire...
> 
> i'm serious..harrington is better than sweets and tim thomas..


I like Al Harrington, but would he work here? We have size issues up front. He's got a nice post game but he's an awfully small 4...


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



yodurk said:


> That's a nice frontcourt, but Toronto still has one of the worst perimeter combos in the league. And they have a long ways to go in ridding themselves on the "losing culture".


We still need to develop a championship culture. So does Toronto.

The Grizzlies win as well..... but are pretty much insignificant in the league. 

Unless we are on the way to a title..... its a yawner for me. 

Is Paxson taking us on the road to a title? Or are we on the road to being the Chicago Grizzles?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



kukoc4ever said:


> We still need to develop a championship culture. So does Toronto.
> 
> The Grizzlies win as well..... but are pretty much insignificant in the league.
> 
> ...


Those are good legit questions. Only time can answer them. I personally believe that we are in far better position to move forward than the Grizzlies ever were. The Grizzlies successfully made the leap from bad to good, but they've hit a stopping point to reach elite status. The Bulls just lept from bad to good, also...but overall, I see more assets (more/better draft picks + cap room) and better talent than the Grizzlies. Just my opinion.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2204385


_The Milwaukee Bucks continued to aggressively reshape their roster Wednesday by beating out several teams to acquire New Orleans/Oklahoma City center Jamaal Magloire, according to NBA front-office sources.

In a trade that will be announced later Wednesday, Milwaukee has agreed to send swingman Desmond Mason, its 2006 first-round pick and cash considerations to the Hornets for Magloire, an East All-Star in 2004._



so much for those denials by byron scott!


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

WOW!!!

Magloire,Gadzuric,Bogut, and Joe Smith. 


That is strong.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

The Hornets sure are trying to put together an exciting backcourt. Mason, JR Smith, and Chris Paul? They might lose 65 games, but they should have some highlight reel plays.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



mizenkay said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2204385
> 
> 
> _The Milwaukee Bucks continued to aggressively reshape their roster Wednesday by beating out several teams to acquire New Orleans/Oklahoma City center Jamaal Magloire, according to NBA front-office sources.
> ...



Boy, that's a cheap pickup..... I wonder if Nocioni and the NYK's first rounder would have gotten it done?

Does this make Bogut a 4?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

That just made the Bucs a LOT tougher...


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



johnston797 said:


> Boy, that's a cheap pickup..... I wonder if Nocioni and the NYK's first rounder would have gotten it done?
> 
> Does this make Bogut a 4?



Bogut is one of those "true centers" I keep talking about. I bet he will remain at the 5 and Magliore will play the 4 since he is more of a pf/c type.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Don't say this much ACE but I agree.

Ford,Williams
Redd,Welsch
Simmons,Kukoc
Smith,Bogut
Magloire,Gadzuric

Not a lot of depth on the wings but upfront is nice.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

The Bucks just gained a lot in my mind. If they don't have many major injuries they might be in the playoffs now.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



mizenkay said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2204385
> 
> 
> _The Milwaukee Bucks continued to aggressively reshape their roster Wednesday by beating out several teams to acquire New Orleans/Oklahoma City center Jamaal Magloire, according to NBA front-office sources._
> ...


Man, if we were going after Magloire we weren't going very hard. We certainly had the pieces to beat this deal.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

hello bulls, 

its me, the basement.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Man, if we were going after Magloire we weren't going very hard. We certainly had the pieces to beat this deal.



actually the only realistic piece that we could beat the bucks offer would be Loul Deng, chandler/kirk are untouchable, and Ben is not aviaiable, and the honrnets might not even want ben since they already have paul. deng+no.1 pick+cash would be right up there with the bucks offer. but i bet if paxson moved deng for jamal, i would see a couple moreof "fire paxson" threads pretty soon.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*










Bucks GM Larry Harris (L) talks over the trade with an official from the Hornets (R)

http://img60.exs.cx/img60/1839/hamburgler.jpg


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Man, if we were going after Magloire we weren't going very hard. We certainly had the pieces to beat this deal.


Did we? We have the first rounder, but is there anyone we'd be willing to part with who's better than Desmond Mason?

How do people feel about this deal for the Bucks? They've got 3 centers and only the undersized Joe Smith at the 4 now. Kind of a strange move...


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Sith said:


> actually the only realistic piece that we could beat the bucks offer would be Loul Deng, chandler/kirk are untouchable, and Ben is not aviaiable, and the honrnets might not even want ben since they already have paul. deng+no.1 pick+cash would be right up there with the bucks offer. but i bet if paxson moved deng for jamal, i would see a couple moreof "fire paxson" threads pretty soon.


I guess we could have offered TT and a #1 pick but both of our #1's will likely be higher than NO's #1. So, we probably would have had to offer TT and BOTH of our #1's which is an overpayment I am glad we didn't make.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



jbulls said:


> Did we? We have the first rounder, but is there anyone we'd be willing to part with who's better than Desmond Mason?
> 
> How do people feel about this deal for the Bucks? They've got 3 centers and only the undersized Joe Smith at the 4 now. Kind of a strange move...


Gadzuric and Kukoc can easily play the 4 in a pinch . . . Bogut's looked quick enough to me to match up there against certain 4s as well.

So scratch Magloire's name off the list of our center replacements . . . I guess the master plan now revolves around giving Nene something close to max money?


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Man, if we were going after Magloire we weren't going very hard. We certainly had the pieces to beat this deal.


Mike, that is the truth.

Whats the purpose behind accumulating assets if they are not to be utilized in a strategic way to address a acknowledged weakness. BTW, what do you think Mason must be feeling now? Report to where???


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Do we have confirmation on when Magloire's contract expires? I had thought he had two more years on his deal, but Hoopshype has his being a free agent this summer. Can anyone confirm?

Look at the Bucs:

Ford, Mo Williams
Redd, Gaines
Simmons, Kukoc
Magloire, Smith
Bogut, Gadzuric

That is a solid, solid, solid lineup. They clearly look better on paper.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



ViciousFlogging said:


> The Hornets sure are trying to put together an exciting backcourt. Mason, JR Smith, and Chris Paul? They might lose 65 games, but they should have some highlight reel plays.


They may lead the league in alley-oops. This isn't a terrible deal for the Hornets. Chris Anderson proved to be a decent defensive prescence last year, so he guess he's the 5, they'll need more minutes out of him though, you can get away w/ PJ Brown at the 5 for a few minutes a game, but he's getting a little old. The few times I saw him play last year I thought Jackson Vroman showed signs of being a really useful rotation guy. He's listed a little generously at 6'10'', really gets after it, and isn't entirely unskilled.

JR Smith and Desmond Mason are going to be a handful on the wing. And supposedly Macijauskus can really light it up from distance.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Sith said:


> actually the only realistic piece that we could beat the bucks offer would be Loul Deng, chandler/kirk are untouchable, and Ben is not aviaiable, and the honrnets might not even want ben since they already have paul. deng+no.1 pick+cash would be right up there with the bucks offer. but i bet if paxson moved deng for jamal, i would see a couple moreof "fire paxson" threads pretty soon.


Nocioni + Pike would work just fine.

Nocioni is, granted, a slightly worse player than Mason (though he's got more upside and is a more natural 3, which is what the Hornets need), but he's got a much better contract.

Noc + Pike = $5.9M or so this year and Noc at a very reasonable $3M next year and $3.2M the year after. Mason is on the hook for $7.2M next year and $8M the year after that. He is a nice player, but he's way overpaid.

Magloire makes $8.5M this year and probably close to $9M next year. They save a little bit of money by acquiring Mason, but they could have saved a lot with Noc, plus locked up a player who's about as good and probably a better fit.

In short, the Bulls could have offered them a much superior deal by offering up Noc, Pike, Pick, and cash.

Now, you could say that's too much for the Bulls to offer up, and there's a case to be argued there, but I don't see how any GM would prefer to take a nice but cap crushing Des Mason over a nice and cap friendly Noc. 

Especially for the (poor) financial and (rebuilding) basketball shape they're in, a solid young player at a cap friendly rate and cash savings make what the Bulls could have offered a no brainer.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



ScottMay said:


> Gadzuric and Kukoc can easily play the 4 in a pinch . . . Bogut's looked quick enough to me to match up there against certain 4s as well.
> 
> So scratch Magloire's name off the list of our center replacements . . . I guess the master plan now revolves around giving Nene something close to max money?


I'm sure those guys can play the 4 for stretches, but I think they're going to get burned defensively a lot. That said, I'd much rather be too big up front than too small.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Mason's an explosive, defensive-minded guard that can be a solid No. 2 scorer on any team, as well as a hard-nosed defender against any matchup. A 2006 first-round draft pick is a big deal, on top of that, as Milwaukee might be locking up a playoff spot with this but even still, it's likely to be around 8 or 7... it's a still a fairly mid-late round pick.

We could have offer our pick, or the Knicks pick, which ever seemed more attractive. But what player do we have like Mason that we're willing to part ways with so that we could acquire Magloire? I, personally, wouldn't put Gordon on the table just yet, and actually, I don't know that the 1/2 position is where they want help (JR Smith, Chris Paul, Speedy Claxton, Arvydas Macijauskas, Kirk Snyder, Troy Bell all have potential to fill big minutes at those spots). They wanted a full-time defensive 2/3 type, because they're not feeling great about George Lynch, Rasual Butler and Bostjan Nachbar manning that spot.

Deng? Do we really offer Luol Deng AND a pick to get Magloire? I can see how that might be the right move if we want Magloire, but I don't ever see Pax doing that. Shipping two first round picks, one a lottery pick that is looking like a future star, for one legitimate banger inside... I don't see him ever pulling that trade.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

I have courtside seats for the Bulls/Bucks game January 6th. It's going to be an interesting night.

And New Orleans may not have wanted what Pax was willing to give up. The real trade deals hardly ever make the Press, just the speculatitive ones by Sam Smith and fellow columnists. The Journal had no news on this trade. 

Alas, my friend who works for Senator Kohl will have no inside information on this - she can just get tickets, but she is a senate employee, not a Bucks employee. They don't get any inside scope and the Senator never talks about the Bulls around his senate support staff. Darn it.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Nocioni + Pike would work just fine.
> 
> Nocioni is, granted, a slightly worse player than Mason (though he's got more upside and is a more natural 3, which is what the Hornets need), but he's got a much better contract.
> 
> ...



EDIT: watch it with the personal insults. this is the second time in less than 24 hours that you are being edited because of this. thanks.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Nocioni + Pike would work just fine.
> 
> Nocioni is, granted, a slightly worse player than Mason (though he's got more upside and is a more natural 3, which is what the Hornets need), but he's got a much better contract.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm missing something but I like Mason better than Noc and Pike if I'm the Hornets. Capspace is of limited value when you're the Hornets. That's not a situation that any FA wants to go to. Really bad teams tend to either pay way too much (Hawks w/ Joe Johnson) or miss out entirely (us with just about every free agent in the league post Jordan) in free agency. Mason is a nice player.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Nocioni + Pike would work just fine.
> 
> Nocioni is, granted, a slightly worse player than Mason (though he's got more upside and is a more natural 3, which is what the Hornets need), but he's got a much better contract.


There's no way that Nocioni is a "slightly worse player" than Mason. Desmond is a solid 17 ppg, 4 boards (actually he's a way better rebounder than that, too), 2.5 apg. Nocioni hasn't shown that he's that type of player at all, yet.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Nocioni + Pike would work just fine.
> 
> Nocioni is, granted, a slightly worse player than Mason (though he's got more upside and is a more natural 3, which is what the Hornets need), but he's got a much better contract.
> 
> ...


I definitely would have made that offer.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Showtyme said:


> Mason's an explosive, defensive-minded guard that can be a solid No. 2 scorer on any team, as well as a hard-nosed defender against any matchup. A 2006 first-round draft pick is a big deal, on top of that, as Milwaukee might be locking up a playoff spot with this but even still, it's likely to be around 8 or 7... it's a still a fairly mid-late round pick.
> 
> We could have offer our pick, or the Knicks pick, which ever seemed more attractive. But what player do we have like Mason that we're willing to part ways with so that we could acquire Magloire? I, personally, wouldn't put Gordon on the table just yet, and actually, I don't know that the 1/2 position is where they want help (JR Smith, Chris Paul, Speedy Claxton, Arvydas Macijauskas, Kirk Snyder, Troy Bell all have potential to fill big minutes at those spots). They wanted a full-time defensive 2/3 type, because they're not feeling great about George Lynch, Rasual Butler and Bostjan Nachbar manning that spot.
> 
> Deng? Do we really offer Luol Deng AND a pick to get Magloire? I can see how that might be the right move if we want Magloire, but I don't ever see Pax doing that. Shipping two first round picks, one a lottery pick that is looking like a future star, for one legitimate banger inside... I don't see him ever pulling that trade.


Again, I see no reason we'd have include Deng. 

Mason is a nice player and exciting to watch, but he's not a legit #2 guy, at least on a good team. And his contract sucks.

Nocioni would offer them comparable talent at a much better fit. Couple him with Pike as a throw in and the deal works under the cap.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Showtyme said:


> There's no way that Nocioni is a "slightly worse player" than Mason. Desmond is a solid 17 ppg, 4 boards (actually he's a way better rebounder than that, too), 2.5 apg. Nocioni hasn't shown that he's that type of player at all, yet.



And Charlottes pick should be WAY better than either of ours as well, right?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Again, I see no reason we'd have include Deng.
> 
> Mason is a nice player and exciting to watch, but he's not a legit #2 guy, at least on a good team. And his contract sucks.
> 
> Nocioni would offer them comparable talent at a much better fit. Couple him with Pike as a throw in and the deal works under the cap.


I don't see how Mason's contract sucks. He's a better than average player, and he's making 7 plus and a bit over 8 next year. What sucks about that? It's no steal, but the guy can play. Plus, he'll be extremely compatible with Chris Paul. JR Smith is 6'7", so size at swingman isn't a big deal.

Of course, as a straight up trade, this weakens New Orleans as a team, I will give you that. We'll have to wait to see who they get with the first rounder to really tell.

I agree though that the deal you proposed is relatively comperable. We could have perhaps offered a second rounder to sweeten the deal.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



jbulls said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but I like Mason better than Noc and Pike if I'm the Hornets. Capspace is of limited value when you're the Hornets. That's not a situation that any FA wants to go to. Really bad teams tend to either pay way too much (Hawks w/ Joe Johnson) or miss out entirely (us with just about every free agent in the league post Jordan) in free agency. Mason is a nice player.


It's not simply a matter of capspace for the Hornets. They aren't making a lot (read any) money, and I don't think playing a year on the road is gonna help them in this respect.

And extra $5M over the next year or two is probably an immediate 20 or 30% increase in their operating income.


----------



## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

Paxson would not have traded Deng or Nocioni for Magloire. Move on. There will be other opportunities.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



ScottMay said:


> So scratch Magloire's name off the list of our center replacements . . . I guess the master plan now revolves around giving Nene something close to max money?


I think it might come down to that, and I don't know how I'd feel about it. Nene's basically a 10/6 guy over three seasons. He'd have to really break out this season, at 23 years old, and show that he's a consistent force inside on both ends of the floor. His steal numbers are always intriguing but I'd rather see him stacking up on blocks.

In any event, he'd be a good fit but I wonder if there are better fits out there.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Showtyme said:


> There's no way that Nocioni is a "slightly worse player" than Mason. Desmond is a solid 17 ppg, 4 boards (actually he's a way better rebounder than that, too), 2.5 apg. Nocioni hasn't shown that he's that type of player at all, yet.


As a rookie Noc averaged 10, 6, and 2 as a starter. For a real live winning team. He's 6'7

Mason's 28 and 6'5. Aside from the scoring he's not statistically better and he's not seemed to me to be a big part of a winner.

Nice player, sure. But if you're starting at the ground up for building a team, the smart move is to take Nocioni. He's a good player already and should improve himself. Coupled with his much superior financial outlook he's the smart move.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Showtyme said:


> I think it might come down to that, and I don't know how I'd feel about it. Nene's basically a 10/6 guy over three seasons. He'd have to really break out this season, at 23 years old, and show that he's a consistent force inside on both ends of the floor. His steal numbers are always intriguing but I'd rather see him stacking up on blocks.
> 
> In any event, he'd be a good fit but I wonder if there are better fits out there.


The real irony is that we'll end up paying this guy (if we get him, which is very iffy) more than we would give Curry, who's a likely a better player.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

By the way, didn't Pax say that this isn't the time when teams are trading players?

I'm a big Pax fan, but...

proactive

:sigh:


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Mikedc said:


> Well, we could always have given significantly less than max money to Eddy Curry. Doh.


Obviously, other reasons were blocking that path.. regardless of whether they were legit or not.

But I was thinking the exact same thing. Nene's not the answer to frontcourt offense... and one guy that we did have a chance at being that answer sort of slipped through our fingers.

Still, I reserve judgment until I see Sweetney at work in the regular season.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Showtyme they wanted a SF. Pax was not giving up Nocioni or Deng therefore he did not have what they were looking for. He would have done a trade if he had what interest them but he did not. So no trade. Relax Bulls fans we did not get Magloire. It is okay.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Basghetti80 said:


> Showtyme they wanted a SF. Pax was not giving up Nocioni or Deng therefore he did not have what they were looking for. He would have done a trade if he had what interest them but he did not. So no trade. Relax Bulls fans we did not get Magloire. It is okay.


Why would he not give up Nocioni? I mean, he's a good player and a big part of our team, but jeez, Magloire is worth Noc and a 1st rounder to our team.


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

The way I see it, we are staying put probably to go after Nene in 2006. I don't see any problems in not giving up a potential star in Deng and the heart and soul of our team at times in Nocioni. Honestly, sometimes I feel like 'Noc doesn't get enough credit. He was the symbol of the team last year; team player, hard-nosed, great D. He can play the 3 and the 4. Pax is building a team here, guys who want to play. When you look at what we lost and what we gained, the difference isn't overwhelming...

LOST:
Eddy Curry

GAINED:
Michael Sweetney
Darius Songalia
Tim Thomas

In my mind the only reason to trade for Magloire is to address the need for a scoring center, because Sweetney and Songalia can put up points but won't be playing Center anytime soon.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Why would he not give up Nocioni? I mean, he's a good player and a big part of our team, but jeez, Magloire is worth Noc and a 1st rounder to our team.


Pretty much. Again... talent is going to have to be consolidated at some point. Especially this year with Tim Thomas on a one year lease and Lou as the guy we're obviously banking on as the long-term solution, Nocioni, as much as I like him as a player, is very expendible if he can get us a long-term piece of the puzzle.

Obviously there's no certainty, but it seems to me we could have offered him up in a deal that was clearly favorable to the one the Hornets got.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Why would he not give up Nocioni? I mean, he's a good player and a big part of our team, but jeez, Magloire is worth Noc and a 1st rounder to our team.


Plus, we have TT, who could basically take Noc's minutes and provide us with slightly better scoring (and worse defense). I like Noc a lot, but I hope Pax doesn't stonewall on good trade ideas because he's reluctant to give up Noc. I'd rather throw Deng out there for 35 minutes anyway.

edit: Mike types faster than me, apparently.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

To be devil's advocate, I'm not sure every team in the league would be interested in trading for Nocioni, regardless of the fact that he's a good player. Look at that incident with Wade last year. Noc is a punk, and not everyone wants to trade for that.

Nevertheless, Magloire got traded, and we didn't get him, so I'm a pissed off Bulls fan today. I hope we at least offered a package for him.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

All of this aside, be much happier to get Primoz Brezec for Pike and a #1 (and cash and a #2 if it took that) than I would be to get Magloire for Noc, Pike, a #1 and cash.

I'd do either deal though.


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## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

Now do see why I preferred to keep Curry. Nobody lets a bigman with out a flaw become a free agent. Nene is garabage. He has hands of stone.He has no post game.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Everyone seems to be forgetting that there is probably a world of difference between our pick and NO's pick....


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Showtyme said:


> By the way, didn't Pax say that this isn't the time when teams are trading players?
> 
> I'm a big Pax fan, but...
> 
> ...


Hey! Get your own schtick! 

:biggrin:


----------



## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

I prefer the Wilcox and Prybilla solution. We have a three man rotation and it probably more cost effective.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> Pretty much. Again... talent is going to have to be consolidated at some point. Especially this year with Tim Thomas on a one year lease and Lou as the guy we're obviously banking on as the long-term solution, Nocioni, as much as I like him as a player, is very expendible if he can get us a long-term piece of the puzzle.
> 
> Obviously there's no certainty, but it seems to me we could have offered him up in a deal that was clearly favorable to the one the Hornets got.


PRO-ACTIVE

I couldn't have said it any better.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

Mikedc said:


> All of this aside, be much happier to get Primoz Brezec for Pike and a #1 (and cash and a #2 if it took that) than I would be to get Magloire for Noc, Pike, a #1 and cash.
> 
> I'd do either deal though.


I don't understand why Charlotte wants another 3 PT shooter. They've already got Matt Carroll and Kareem Rush, and that's pretty much all those guys do. I think it's going to be very tough to pry Brezec away from the Bobcats, especially with Sean May hurt. It would be a nice pickup if we could swing it some way, but I think it's going to take more than Pike and a pick.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

jbulls said:


> I don't understand why Charlotte wants another 3 PT shooter. They've already got Matt Carroll and Kareem Rush, and that's pretty much all those guys do. I think it's going to be very tough to pry Brezec away from the Bobcats, especially with Sean May hurt. It would be a nice pickup if we could swing it some way, but I think it's going to take more than Pike and a pick.


I agree completely. I think the Bulls pick would be attractive but finding a solid young big man is very difficult, something the Bulls are going to find out now that they have traded away theirs, I don't see them moving Primoz for that package either.


----------



## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

Yeah and Ace we know how those great we will make our move in the off season works for the Bulls. As far as free agency


----------



## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

paxson wins the dumbest GM of the century if he wouldnt part with nocinoni+no.1 pick for Jamal.
on a side note, we could have offered deng +filler straight for jamal,no pick. but if i were paxson, i wouldnt do the deal just yet, lets see what deng can do first. we are in need of size, but not desperate enough to make some bold moves like giving up deng(not yet at least). i mean its not like we are one piece of puzzle away from championship. lets see how this team shapes up first. so bottom line, we were not in line or time to make a reasonable offer, and bucks did. and they got jamal.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Sith said:



> paxson wins the dumbest GM of the century if he wouldnt part with nocinoni+no.1 pick for Jamal.


Guys named Jamal are off the menu.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Sith said:


> paxson wins the dumbest GM of the century if he wouldnt part with nocinoni+no.1 pick for Jamal.


I'd throw in Sweets too.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> I'd throw in Sweets too.



I wouldn't. The MOST I would give up is Noc and the lower of our picks...


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

So you think the Hornets traded Magloire without exploring all their options and "selling" him to the highest bidder? If they took Mason + 1st rounder is because thats the best they could get. Everyone knows Nocioni suc*s (look at + & - stats), so Noch + 1st rounder wasnt enough for Magloire. 

And the Bucks all of the sudden are a better team than the Bulls. But I dont get this "Paxson is so dumb" nonsense that I have read on different Bulls message boards.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I'd definately trade Nocioni, but no way in hell I'd throw in El Chapu


----------



## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

El Chapu said:


> So you think the Hornets traded Magloire without exploring all their options and "selling" him to the highest bidder? If they took Mason + 1st rounder is because thats the best they could get. Everyone knows Nocioni suc*s (look at + & - stats), so Noch + 1st rounder wasnt enough for Magloire.
> 
> And the Bucks all of the sudden are a better team than the Bulls. But I dont get this "Paxson is so dumb" nonsense that I have read on different Bulls message boards.


it happens to all of us, when u r a fan of a team, u tend to over value the players. but most importantly, we all awnt to give up less for more. but sometimes it just goes too far.....


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Well, NO will have *MAD* cap space next year. I wonder if they like Nene.



ace20004u said:


> I wouldn't. The MOST I would give up is Noc and the lower of our picks...


Well, you probably don't have a trade then.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

jbulls said:


> I don't understand why Charlotte wants another 3 PT shooter. They've already got Matt Carroll and Kareem Rush, and that's pretty much all those guys do. I think it's going to be very tough to pry Brezec away from the Bobcats, especially with Sean May hurt. It would be a nice pickup if we could swing it some way, but I think it's going to take more than Pike and a pick.


Of course it's no sure thing, I don't mean to be talking as if it is - but we've got a couple reports, and as we see with the Magloire situation, where there's smoke there's often fire.

My thinking on the Bobcats is that they're looking for a 3 point shooter on an ending contract because 
1. With inside guys like May, Ely, Okafor, and guys like Felton and Gerald Wallace who can take it to the rim, a pure shooter would be good. And they really don't seem to have any perimeter guys who can shoot the 3.

2. With Ely's "emergence" as a player they seem to think will do good things and the acquisition of Voskuhl and May, minutes will be more scarce up front. For a team thinking in terms of the long-run, removing a guy off the salary cap (I don't agree with this philosophy for guys locked into reasonable contracts, but teams do it anyway) and getting a mid-round pick might be a favorable outcome.

3. They did something like this last year by sending off Zaza Pachulia (a guy who played himself into a long-term MLE level deal!) for a second round pick and cash.

4. Remember the Bobcats are still young and trying to get profitable. Having $3M sent their way would be a significant achievement, especially if they like Ely and they don't think they'll have much or even any drop off on the court. 

5. Another alternative is that Ely is still basically a bum and they've decided to talk him up and highlight him in the pre-season to entice some team to throw cash and a pick their way.

6. Another alternative is that they're simply talking (like most teams do about their needs) but wouldn't make a trade like this for either Ely or Brezec.


----------



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



ace20004u said:


> Bogut is one of those "true centers" I keep talking about. I bet he will remain at the 5 and Magliore will play the 4 since he is more of a pf/c type.


I think Bogut will be molded into a Tim Duncan type PF/C...with him playing PF offensivley and C defensivley


----------



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*



Darius Miles Davis said:


> Do we have confirmation on when Magloire's contract expires? I had thought he had two more years on his deal, but Hoopshype has his being a free agent this summer. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> Look at the Bucs:
> 
> ...


Fixed it :clap:


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

Mikedc said:


> Of course it's no sure thing, I don't mean to be talking as if it is - but we've got a couple reports, and as we see with the Magloire situation, where there's smoke there's often fire.
> 
> My thinking on the Bobcats is that they're looking for a 3 point shooter on an ending contract because
> 1. With inside guys like May, Ely, Okafor, and guys like Felton and Gerald Wallace who can take it to the rim, a pure shooter would be good. And they really don't seem to have any perimeter guys who can shoot the 3.
> ...


Good points. If there's any way to do this I think we should. I still contend that the Bobcats have two very good 3 PT shooters in Matt Carroll and Kareem Rush.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

The Central Division is now officially becomes the ACC of the NBA.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

RSP83 said:


> The Central Division is now officially becomes the ACC of the NBA.


Does that make us Clemson?


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

jbulls said:


> Good points. If there's any way to do this I think we should. I still contend that the Bobcats have two very good 3 PT shooters in Matt Carroll and Kareem Rush.


I agree that Carroll and Rush have range to 3-pt, but I don't think they have that "3-point specialist" feel about them. Kareem Rush still thinks he can score off the dribble and has shot about 35% from the arc over his erratic career. Matt Carroll is a career 33.3% 3pt shooter and has played 41 games over two seasons. A 3-pt specialist VET is what's needed there, a guy that can reliably be in his spot, at the right time, all the time, and make that shot. 

Defenses might actually adjust a little bit to Pike's presence on the floor, because you can't ignore a career 40% 3pt guy over 11 years in this league. He's made over 800 threes in this league.

Pike definitely has a specific role for that team, and I think he'd make a good fit. He's been a steady presence for bad teams through his whole career, and you can expect that he'll still go out there and earn his money.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Mikedc said:


> Pretty much. Again... talent is going to have to be consolidated at some point. Especially this year with Tim Thomas on a one year lease and Lou as the guy we're obviously banking on as the long-term solution, Nocioni, as much as I like him as a player, is very expendible if he can get us a long-term piece of the puzzle.
> 
> *Obviously there's no certainty, but it seems to me we could have offered him up in a deal that was clearly favorable to the one the Hornets got.*


Did we or did we not? That is the question.

Personally, I don't agree that Pike and Noc plus a pick is better than what the Bucks offered, but that has already been addressed in detail by others. So it might not even matter if we offered it up or not.

But this deal does disturb me. I will be very interested to see what the Bulls did offer. Magloire was number 2 on my list. This disappoints me very much.

However, if it would have required including someone like Deng or Gordon, which is my guess, then I would not have approved.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Did we or did we not? That is the question.
> 
> Personally, I don't agree that Pike and Noc plus a pick is better than what the Bucks offered, but that has already been addressed in detail by others. So it might not even matter if we offered it up or not.
> 
> ...


I doubt we offered anything. If we had, I don't think the Pax comment about "this is not the time that teams are doing trades" would have come out. GM's will obscure things, sure, but that's a comment that really reflects that Pax is not going to go out there and do much right now.

It's not his job to cold-call.

Again, I'm a big fan of Pax, but he's a conservative and not an aggressor when it comes to getting pieces from other teams.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Didn't Paxson just say in an article that now is not the time that teams a trading players?

Does not seem like the quote of a man that is busy working the phones because a trade is about to go down.

I don't think we offered anything, based on the articles in the paper and based on how Paxson does business.

I'm pretty POed about this. Oh well. Just have to continue to adjust my expectations of the team and where its headed.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

> I doubt we offered anything. If we had, I don't think the Pax comment about "this is not the time that teams are doing trades" would have come out. GM's will obscure things, sure, but that's a comment that really reflects that Pax is not going to go out there and do much right now.


You mean like Byron Scott's quote that Magloire wasn't on the block? 

Anyway, I would think that something will leak out one way or another regarding whether or not the Bulls made an effort. If they did nothing, it will have been an obvious mistake.



> It's not his job to cold-call.


I find it hard to believe that anyone actually thinks Paxson doesn't put out feelers to other teams when he's looking to fill a need. If that is true, he really is an idiot. But I believe that about as much as I believe that he cross-dresses on weekends. That quote had a specific context and has been completely overblown on these boards.

You think teams were beating down Paxson's door to acquire Jalen Rose when that trade went down? He just sat back and took the best offer? Come on, man.



> Again, I'm a big fan of Pax, but he's a conservative and not an aggressor when it comes to getting pieces from other teams.


He has completely gutted and rebuilt a sorry team in 2 years. I don't see how that shows a lack of aggression. 

Conservative I'll give you, especially given DNA-gate. But Paxson has been aggressive in tearing down and rebuilding this team.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

kukoc4ever said:


> I don't think we offered anything, based on the articles in the paper and based on how Paxson does business.


Unsupported speculation. What a shock. 

In any event, I think time will tell if he did or did not talk to the Hornets about Magloire. I'll preemptively give you this one: If he didn't contact them prior to this trade going down, he made a damn big mistake. I'm just not willing to engage in bald speculation about it.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

This thread keeps going and going and for the life of me I can't figure out what the Bulls have to offer that would be greater than Mason & a high NO pick. Sure, we have TT and a couple of lower picks, maybe they would be interested if we threw both picks at them but I wouldn't want Pax to do that anyway.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ace20004u said:


> This thread keeps going and going and for the life of me I can't figure out what the Bulls have to offer that would be greater than Mason & a high NO pick. Sure, we have TT and a couple of lower picks, maybe they would be interested if we threw both picks at them but I wouldn't want Pax to do that anyway.


Really, I guess that is the bottom line isn't it. Lets say Mike's Nocioni package isn't enough. Beyond that, what would Bulls fans have been willing to give up to get Magloire.

I'm too lazy to be good at checking possible trades and if they work under the cap, but what about a package including *both* of the 2006 draft picks? 

If I were the Bulls, I would have tried to put together the most attractive package possible short of giving up any one of Chandler, Deng, Gordon, or Hinrich.


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

I hate to speculate - but I'm going to speculate about the Bucks.

Kohl almost sold this team a couple of years ago because of the loss of money and lack of ultimate success for the team under George Karl. I think he wants Milwaukee to have a winning team right now, and Larry Harris is under instructions to do something right now to make a team an immediate title contender. Bogut was a great pick (and I'm wondering how Kohl and Rick Majerus are getting along these days) despite all those warnings that he'd be a stiff. He's the real deal. Harris was probably the most aggressive GM in the pursuit of Magliore - even though Magliore wants to ultimately play in his home town. 

Paxson is probably thinking 4 or 5 years for title contention, Harris is thinking 1 or 2 because that's what I think Kohl wants. 

When Paxson got the job, the Dayton paper interviewed his father about him, and Jim Sr said John was shy (which is hard to believe now), but very aggressive. When he thinks we're one player away, he'll get that player.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

narek said:


> I hate to speculate - but I'm going to speculate about the Bucks.
> 
> Kohl almost sold this team a couple of years ago because of the loss of money and lack of ultimate success for the team under George Karl. I think he wants Milwaukee to have a winning team right now, and Larry Harris is under instructions to do something right now to make a team an immediate title contender. Bogut was a great pick (and I'm wondering how Kohl and Rick Majerus are getting along these days) despite all those warnings that he'd be a stiff. He's the real deal. Harris was probably the most aggressive GM in the pursuit of Magliore - even though Magliore wants to ultimately play in his home town.
> 
> ...


Must be nice to be thinking 1 or 2 instead of 4 or 5.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> This thread keeps going and going and for the life of me I can't figure out what the Bulls have to offer that would be greater than Mason & a high NO pick. Sure, we have TT and a couple of lower picks, maybe they would be interested if we threw both picks at them but I wouldn't want Pax to do that anyway.


Yeah, I just don't see what we could've offered that would've made sense. I would've been fine parting with the Knicks' 1st rounder (which is pretty much equal to the Bucks' 1st rounder, maybe slightly better). But Deng, Hinrich, Chandler, and Gordon are not touchable right now...not for a guy like Magloire. Magloire is good, but in an era of REAL centers he never would've been an all-star. For Nocioni + the Knicks' 1st, then yeah it's a no brainer for us, but Desmond Mason is the perceived better player whether we like it or not.


----------



## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

the trade shouldnt change anything. we are still the same team although i think Magloire is the player knicks fans want curry to be. Bucks are much better but its too early to predict anything.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Really, I guess that is the bottom line isn't it. Lets say Mike's Nocioni package isn't enough. Beyond that, what would Bulls fans have been willing to give up to get Magloire.
> 
> I'm too lazy to be good at checking possible trades and if they work under the cap, but what about a package including *both* of the 2006 draft picks?
> 
> If I were the Bulls, I would have tried to put together the most attractive package possible short of giving up any one of Chandler, Deng, Gordon, or Hinrich.


Yeah that is the bottom line. I can't think of a more attractive package that the Bulls could offer short of giving up both draft picks, something I would not advocate doing. Besides, Nocioni is sort of a 3/4 & my understanding is that NO wanted to add a 2/3 Thomas may make too much money to move so it would have to be Nocionni unless NO threw some stuff in and he duplicates stuff they already have IMO.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Really, I guess that is the bottom line isn't it. Lets say Mike's Nocioni package isn't enough. Beyond that, what would Bulls fans have been willing to give up to get Magloire.
> 
> I'm too lazy to be good at checking possible trades and if they work under the cap, but what about a package including *both* of the 2006 draft picks?
> 
> If I were the Bulls, I would have tried to put together the most attractive package possible short of giving up any one of Chandler, Deng, Gordon, or Hinrich.


Is he that good? How come we give Magloire all these props but we don't value Troy Murphy just as much? They are both 6-11 double doubles; Murphy had a season like Jamaal's never had last year. We get enamored with Magloire's 1+ bpg stat, but Murphy has quick hands with steals and isn't a bad post defender himself. The fact that Foyle or someone else is on the court taking up all the blocks might have some part in it. Besides, I'd rather have Troy's 40% 3-pt shot that he's developed out of nowhere than Magloire's 1 block a game.

TWO first-round picks? Magloire himself is evidence that very decent big men can be found in the later picks of the 1st round (he was drafted 19). Why would we give up TWO first-round quality players that can fill several roles, one of which might even be the next Magloire himself, just to get one JM whose play looked a little lackluster before his injury last season?

Hey, I'm not saying that we should get all over Murphy either. But if I were to come on the boards and say that we should trade Noc + Pike + whatever salary filler + 1 first rounder, people would freak out. I'd freak out myself.

So what's the enamor with Magloire, who is this generation's AD (a semi-talented big man in a land dry and barren of big men in the EC)?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Showtyme said:


> Is he that good? How come we give Magloire all these props but we don't value Troy Murphy just as much? They are both 6-11 double doubles; Murphy had a season like Jamaal's never had last year. We get enamored with Magloire's 1+ bpg stat, but Murphy has quick hands with steals and isn't a bad post defender himself. The fact that Foyle or someone else is on the court taking up all the blocks might have some part in it. Besides, I'd rather have Troy's 40% 3-pt shot that he's developed out of nowhere than Magloire's 1 block a game.
> 
> TWO first-round picks? Magloire himself is evidence that very decent big men can be found in the later picks of the 1st round (he was drafted 19). Why would we give up TWO first-round quality players that can fill several roles, one of which might even be the next Magloire himself, just to get one JM whose play looked a little lackluster before his injury last season?
> 
> ...


Magloire was an all-star two seasons ago. He missed most of last season with an injury (finger) that likely won't affect his game at all.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> This thread keeps going and going and for the life of me I can't figure out what the Bulls have to offer that would be greater than Mason & *a high NO pick*. Sure, we have TT and a couple of lower picks, maybe they would be interested if we threw both picks at them but I wouldn't want Pax to do that anyway.


New Orleans isn't getting it's own pick, it's getting the Bucks' pick. And it's doubtful it'll be higher than our pick.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Magloire was an all-star two seasons ago. He missed most of last season with an injury (finger) that likely won't affect his game at all.


Again, size in a dry and barren land. I'm not saying Magloire isn't a very solid big; he's probably the next PJ Brown. But does Magloire make our team that much better, really? He's essentially our AD replacement; is AD worth two first-rounders and a gem of an international player who is only looking to improve?

I mean, hey. Noch and Pike and a first? Sure, I'd pull it. Can't teach size. But if I were NO, I'd probably go with Mason and the first anyway. And while I think Pax is competent enough to send out "feelers", I also think that he hasn't pulled a trade in his tenure with this franchise without first getting a feeling of dissatisfaction with one of the players in the trade. That's why I think he was so heartbroken about Curry; unlike Jamal and Jalen, he really wanted Curry to stay on board, he just couldn't do it with his conservative risk outlook.

So I don't think it's totally unfounded speculation to think that Pax, who a few days ago openly admitted that this roster might be this way for a while, wasn't gunning after Magloire.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm sure glad we traded away our starting frontcourt from last year. Because we sure won't need any size at all to compete in the East this year.

I'm sure we were one of the teams that pushed the price tag up on Milwaukee. Parting with Mason will hurt them, but not so much, since they got Bobby Simmons, who is a better fit anyways with what they want to do. The first round picks are probably irrellevant, since from all indications, the Bucks are doing everything possible to make the playoffs. It's not like they don't have all the players they need now to make a serious run at some point.

Bogut/Magloire/Gadzuric/Joe Smith makes our frontcourt look very very sad.

Methinks we need a 7 footer in the worst way.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

One other thing. Does it make sense that Pax might still be hoping that the Knicks release AD? Can't tamper with it, but perhaps Pax is hoping that AD can still be in a Bulls uni next season... in which case, I think Magloire's value would be lessened.

Two first rounders and a valuable SF... that's not quite mortgaging the team, but that's a REALLY significant offer that would greatly change the look of the roster. I don't think Pax was ready to commit to that.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

> Is he that good? How come we give Magloire all these props but we don't value Troy Murphy just as much? They are both 6-11 double doubles;Murphy had a season like Jamaal's never had last year. We get enamored with Magloire's 1+ bpg stat, but Murphy has quick hands with steals and isn't a bad post defender himself. The fact that Foyle or someone else is on the court taking up all the blocks might have some part in it. Besides, I'd rather have Troy's 40% 3-pt shot that he's developed out of nowhere than Magloire's 1 block a game.


I like Murphy too. Every time I suggested (or agreed with) putting a Curry package together for him, though, it seemed like the vast majority of fans thought that was a mistake. 



> TWO first-round picks? Magloire himself is evidence that very decent big men can be found in the later picks of the 1st round (he was drafted 19). Why would we give up TWO first-round quality players that can fill several roles, one of which might even be the next Magloire himself, just to get one JM whose play looked a little lackluster before his injury last season?


I'm just askin. I look at it this way: I consider Magloire superior to Curry. I'd have loved to trade Curry to get Magloire. We traded Curry and got Sweetney, 3 picks and pick swap, and Thomas' expiring salary.

You flip one of those picks and add the Bulls own middlin' pick and you've turned Curry, AD and a mid first rounder into Magloire, Sweetney, Thomas' expiring contract, 2 second round picks and a pick swap with the Knicks. Thats a pretty nice return, I think.



> So what's the enamor with Magloire, who is this generation's AD (a semi-talented big man in a land dry and barren of big men in the EC)?


I'd love to put this generations AD next to Tyson. I think that would be great.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Showtyme said:


> Again, size in a dry and barren land. I'm not saying Magloire isn't a very solid big; he's probably the next PJ Brown. But does Magloire make our team that much better, really? He's essentially our AD replacement; is AD worth two first-rounders and a gem of an international player who is only looking to improve?
> 
> I mean, hey. Noch and Pike and a first? Sure, I'd pull it. Can't teach size. But if I were NO, I'd probably go with Mason and the first anyway. And while I think Pax is competent enough to send out "feelers", I also think that he hasn't pulled a trade in his tenure with this franchise without first getting a feeling of dissatisfaction with one of the players in the trade. That's why I think he was so heartbroken about Curry; unlike Jamal and Jalen, he really wanted Curry to stay on board, he just couldn't do it with his conservative risk outlook.
> 
> So I don't think it's totally unfounded speculation to think that Pax, who a few days ago openly admitted that this roster might be this way for a while, wasn't gunning after Magloire.


He's our AD replacement, which is fine. But he's an AD replacement who can play full-time starter's minutes and he's 27 years old and not 37 years old.

I agree that DMase and a pick is better than Noc and a pick. But it gets pretty close if it's Noc and 2 picks. 

I think there was $3M in cash in the deal, too.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Showtyme said:


> Again, size in a dry and barren land. I'm not saying Magloire isn't a very solid big; he's probably the next PJ Brown. But does Magloire make our team that much better, really? He's essentially our AD replacement; is AD worth two first-rounders and a gem of an international player who is only looking to improve?


Is PJ Brown available? PJ Brown or Magloire would have helped us tremendously. We're woefully undersized in a conference that keeps getting taller. New York has 4 7 footers. Miami has 3. Detroit has the Wallaces and apparently Darko. Indiana has JO, Foster, Harrison, and others. Cleveland has Z, Gooden, Marshall, and Verejao, plus probably Jahidi White, and Martynas. It's a lot of size to contend with. Even Atlanta has a legit 7 footer.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> New Orleans isn't getting it's own pick, it's getting the Bucks' pick. And it's doubtful it'll be higher than our pick.



your right, not sure what the hell I was thinking, it has been a long week! 

Realizing that now it does indeed seem that the Bulls should have been able to offer a better package unless NO is just enamored with Mason.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> He's our AD replacement, which is fine. But he's an AD replacement who can play full-time starter's minutes and he's 27 years old and not 37 years old.
> 
> I agree that DMase and a pick is better than Noc and a pick. But it gets pretty close if it's Noc and 2 picks.
> 
> I think there was $3M in cash in the deal, too.


This is one of those rare occassions where you and I seem to be completely on the same page. These are my thoughts to a "T".


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> This is one of those rare occassions where you and I seem to be completely on the same page. These are my thoughts to a "T".


We seem to agree about Troy Murphy, too.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Is PJ Brown available? PJ Brown or Magloire would have helped us tremendously. We're woefully undersized in a conference that keeps getting taller. New York has 4 7 footers. Miami has 3. Detroit has the Wallaces and apparently Darko. Indiana has JO, Foster, Harrison, and others. Cleveland has Z, Gooden, Marshall, and Verejao, plus probably Jahidi White, and Martynas. It's a lot of size to contend with. Even Atlanta has a legit 7 footer.


PJ Brown is entrenched in the New Orleans community, even if there isn't much of a New Orleans right now. He's like the Hornets' Shane Battier. A quality veteran who would be more expendable if he wasn't such a tremendous fan favorite and public relations guy.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

FWIW

They're the Oklahoma City Hornets this season.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> FWIW
> 
> They're the Oklahoma City Hornets this season.


Aaahhhh, yes. Where did Desmond Mason go to college again?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Rawse said:


> PJ Brown is entrenched in the New Orleans community, even if there isn't much of a New Orleans right now. He's like the Hornets' Shane Battier. A quality veteran who would be more expendable if he wasn't such a tremendous fan favorite and public relations guy.


I wonder though if the Hornets are going to return to NOLA. The Saints are even more important than the Hornets and there's talk they won't be back.

But yeah PJ Brown is a stand up guy. He re-signed with the hornets instead of going to the Lakers or Spurs, just because they were in New Orleans.

He's been really underrated throughout his career. He's a lot like AD, but I think he's better than AD.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

*Re: Bulls after Magloire?*

every team vescey said was wrong! lol!


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> FWIW
> 
> They're the Oklahoma City Hornets this season.


This is a good point. I always forget Mason was a Cowboy.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

..


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

http://www.journaltimes.com/nucleus/index.php?blogid=24


> Harris said he didn't start working on the trade until last Monday. Harris said he read an article about the Hornets possibly being willing to deal Magloire on Hoopshype.com, a popular basketball Web site. Harris then contacted Hornets officials and the parties became exploring different trade scenarios.
> *The Bucks were among several teams that heavily pursued Magloire, among them being the Los Angeles Clippers, Memphis, Toronto, Indiana and the Los Angeles Lakers*. It is believed when Harris was agreeable to giving up its top draft choice in next summer's draft, the deal was sealed.


Interesting info from Larry Harris in general there- especially the mention of Hoopshype.

Several teams were mentioned as seriously after Magloire. The Bulls weren't one of them. Didn't see anything in the Chicago papers either. The Sun-Times and Herald both had articles today, and neither mentioned anything about the Bulls going after him.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

From this morning's daily herald:



> Star to Bucks: John Paxson said the Bulls were not in the running for Hornets center Jamaal Magloire, who was traded to Milwaukee on Wednesday for forward Desmond Mason and a first-round draft pick. He wasn’t happy about the trade, either.
> 
> “There’s no way of hiding it. Our division might be the best in basketball right now,” Paxson said. “(Bucks GM) Larry Harris did a terrific job with a little bit of money to spend, the first draft pick, they got T.J. Ford back, and all of the sudden I think they’re going to be very good.”


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Huh?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

mason is not happy. fwiw. 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/buck/oct05/366311.asp




> After learning that he had been traded to the New Orleans / Oklahoma City Hornets, a trade that brought 6-foot-11 center Jamaal Magloire to the Milwaukee Bucks, the 28-year-old was not at a loss for words.
> 
> Mason, who played for two-plus seasons in Milwaukee, focused his anger on Bucks general manager Larry Harris and owner Herb Kohl in a radio interview aired on WAUK-AM (1510).
> 
> ...


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

(Larry Harris after his DWI arrest in May 2004.)


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> (Larry Harris after his DWI arrest in May 2004.)



No wonder his hands were shaking during his interview in New York after winning the lottery.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> (Larry Harris after his DWI arrest in May 2004.)


LOL... New Berlin... isn't that where Scott Skiles lives?
(We kid because we love)


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