# Start Something



## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

Since it's pretty slow on the board i think we should get something started,not a fight just a debate

So i feel the three best young teams are the Clips, Bulls and Pacers, Personally i feel the Clips are the best

I would like to get some feed back from other fans, to discuss out teams.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

The clippers could have something really special, if they resign kandi and if odom is the player he should be this year. Very nice club on paper!! I agree

Pacers? Didn't do anything to improve in offseason but could still be formidable. If Harrington comes back and picks up where he left off they could be trouble!

Bulls are will be fun to watch. 30-35 wins tops.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Pacers look like they are in a position to do well. They have offensive firepower, with strong scorers at every position (except maybe PG?), going all the way into the bench. 

Tinsley/???(probably Ollie)/Brewer (Brewer deserves a chance)
Miller/Mercer/Jones
Harrington/Artest/Bender (this guy will HAVE to get minutes elsewhere than SG now)
O'Neal/Croshere (O'Neal plays almost 40 mpg)
Miller/Foster (neither is a GREAT center, both are very solid centers)

The team has some tough defenders too, in Artest, O'Neal, and to some extent, Tinsley. O'Neal patrols the paint, ready to swat whatever comes inside. Tinsley and Artest D up along the perimeter, and whoever else is out there just needs to body up against their man and not get picked off... the team should be at least stronger defensively than last year's team.

B. Miller is a good rebounder, especially on the offensive glass, and Jeff Foster is a strong rebounder as well. Not to mention O'Neal's 10.5 rpg, and Artest's 5 boards... it's a big frontcourt, especially in the East. They can compete with the Atlanta's, New Jersey's, and other big Eastern frontcourts. They should waste teams like Boston (even with Baker), Toronto, Orlando, and New Orleans in the frontcourt. 

The sad thing about the Pacers is the coaching. Hopefully Zeke won't hold back the immense talent and chemistry this team can have by being himself.

I think the Bulls are about one year away from being in the position the Pacers are in now.

I think the Clips would be a top 4 playoff seed in the East, but will struggle to hit the playoffs next year, although Andre Miller should put the team over the top and push them into the playoffs. Utah probably won't survive another year, but Houston might make its way up...

I'd say the Pacers are the best off right now.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

I think the Clips are the best of the teams right now. The addition of Miller was huge. Three years down the road, barring any huge trades, the Bulls and Clips will be the best. I really like the guys the Pacers have, but what bothers me is the lack of one player that could be awesome. They've got alot of players who'll be very good, but other than Reggie who will be retired by then, I don't see them as having anyone to close out their games.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

best young team,the mavericks.they are already probably the 4th best team in the nba behind,the kings,spurs and lakers.they have a very young nucleus of;
dirk
finley
nash
lafrentz


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

The Clips have the best team (IMO), if the stay together

take a look at the depth

Pg- A Miller/ K. Dooling/M. Jaric
Sg- Q rich/ C. Maggette/ E. Pike
Sf- L.O/ C. Maggette/
Pf- E.B/ C. Wilcox
C. Kandi Man/ M. Ely

The have one present allstar in Brand.Lamar Odom with personal
problems aside, has a great deal of talent and has a complete game, Q rich who i think is a future allstar that can really light it up, Andre the best assist man in the game, great young players,......................
they just have it all i could go on forever


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## GoCocs9188 (Jul 19, 2002)

I am holding off any judgement on the Clippers until they resign, Miller, Odom, Brand, and Kandi.


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## Ducket (Jul 16, 2002)

> best young team,the mavericks.


The Mavericks aren't a young team. Finley will be 30 next year and Nash 29.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

you are correct on nash and finleys ages,technically speaking they are still a very young team.they just arent a kiddie corp.


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## basketball_jesus (Jun 15, 2002)

The Clippers have the best young talent, and will hopefully have the best youngsters for a while.


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## <<<D>>> (Jul 15, 2002)

The Bulls & the Clipps have the youngest team & talent. The Future is bright for these 2 teams....and maybe even just NOW for the Clipp joint :yes:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

The Bulls and Clippers are 2 of the 3 youngest. The Pacers are the youngest team in the L right now though. Reggies the only player over 28 on the team. I think they have the best chance of making it to the Finals in the next few years.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

Only thing that bothers me about the Pacers is that they need to consolidate their talent. They're loaded with good players, but in this league you need at least one stud that you can ride through the fourth quarter, and the Pacer's stud is a few years from retirement. That's why I really didn't like the Rose trade for them- it really was almost a step backwards, although getting Miller and Artest out of it was great for them. They need to trade a few of their talented young players for a superstar or possible future superstar who can replace Reggie to become a title team. I really think Bender should be one of the guys to go-IMO Harrington will better anyway. As these teams stand now, I'm looking forward to Bulls-Clippers in the 2006 NBA finals.:yes:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

How is JO not a stud?


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
> I think the Clips are the best of the teams right now. The addition of Miller was huge. Three years down the road, barring any huge trades, the Bulls and Clips will be the best. I really like the guys the Pacers have, but what bothers me is the lack of one player that could be awesome.


i think thats the exact reason im iffy about the clippers, they dont have anyone who looks like they will be a major league superstar in a few years, odom dosent look like he will ever reach his potential between injuries and suspensions

the bulls and pacers have guys that can be superstars in a few years, bender is an absolute STUDDD, he will be a superstar in a few years, bank on it, i should know, i live in valpo indy but im a bulls fan, jermaine oneal is already a superstar, or at least cusp of superstardome, al harrington is the second best on-the-ball defender in the league according to mj, behind only artest, i see the pacers making a name for themselves on the defensive end, i just dont see that superstar anywhere on the clippers, but dont get me wrong, you dont need a superstar, the clippers should be the top team in the west for years


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> How is JO not a stud?


Agree that O'Neal is certainly a stud...

but something else, the Clippers better sign Kandi-man otherwise the other guys will follow his example, and just leave town, you have to take care of your own.

-Petey


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> the bulls and pacers have guys that can be superstars in a few years, bender is an absolute STUDDD, he will be a superstar in a few years, bank on it,


I don't understand that one.

You say you don't see anyone on the Clips being a stud, but then you think Bender will be?

Odom, Q, Maggette, Brand, and Miller have shown more already, or more potential to be studs than Bender has. I realize Miller and Brand aren't guys who will be those superstuds, but Bender hasn't even shown the potential to even be on their level.

I was a huge Bender fan when he came out, and have defended him against the people who have called him a bust, but I can't see how anyone could label him a stud after what he's shown in the NBA to date.

I agree with you to an extent about the Clips and that one stud. I think ODom is the only player on the team that has that type of ability. I personally feel that his suspensions are behind him. It's all a matter of staying healthy. I think Odom will be that player as long as he does stay healthy. I do think it's a valid concern to worry about, but I do believe that Odom will be that player for the Clippers.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't understand that one.
> ...


its like this, there are certain players that just scream future superstar(darius miles), thats what bender is, but he dosent get consistant playing time which he needs to get in a groove on a consistant basis

bender has actually shown that he will be a superstar one day, he's got all the tools, the talent, all he needs is the playing time, he is a super freak athletically, he has darius miles-like athletisicm, tyson chandler size, and a pure stroke all the way to the three point line, he can play 4 positions 

you'd have to be able to have seen all of the pacer games to be able to find games where he showed this talent, because they were far between each other because the pacers have harrington, oneal, croschere and rose(now artest and mercer instead of rose) at the 2/3/4 spots, but he showed alot more in the second half of the season

the reason i feel that bender will be a future superstar and not brand, dre etc... is because_ bender has the physical tools to one day be able to physically dominate his opponents_, much like kg and gasol, not to mention the fact that he already has the talent to back the physical tools up, 

the clippers do have odom who has that potential, and i hope he reaches it


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

I have to disagree on a couple accounts.

Bender doesn't have Chandler size. Tyson is not monster by any means, but he's got a good 20lbs at least on Bender.

Bender can't play 4 positions. He can play 2.

There is no way he can play the point. Not good enough handles, and not quick enough to cover them.
No way he can play the 5, not near big, strong, or tough enough.
He can't really play the 4 either, for the same reasons he can't play the 5. He isn't bulky enough, or strong enough. He doesn't have the attitude to bang either. I can buy him playing some minutes as a 4 in small lineups, but so could Corey Maggette(Hey, Jumaine Jones did it, and he's not near as strong or tough as Maggette), and I don't consider him a guy who can play the 4. 

Bender can play the 2 and 3, and thats about it. That's perfectly fine, you only need one position, but I don't buy the argument that he can play 4 spots.

I do agree that Bender may have the physical gifts that Brand, Miller, etc may have. But, so does Keon Clark. And he isn't anywhere near their class, even though he's far superior in terms of physical tools.

Like I said, I'm a fan of Bender, and he may someday be a star. I don't believe he'll ever be a superstar, or he would be showing more of it right now. 

I think he'll be a future contributor to the Pacers, but I don't ever think he reaches even star status(where I think Miller/Brand are), let alone superstar status. 

Bender may indeed emerge someday, but I think that's just too big a question mark to even mention. 

I think O'Neal is the only potential stud on that team, and he isn't there yet IMO. He's still got some work to do. Right now, I think him and Brand are pretty equal. Not studs, but excellent players. The difference being that Jermaine still has more room to improve because of the physical gifts. I don't think the Pacers have anyone else who has that type of ability. And as I said before, I think Odom is the only one for the Clips. Each team needs those players to emerge for them to take the next step up. Otherwise, neither team takes that step up, cuz I don't think there is anyone else currently on their rosters with that type of ability. Just my opinion ...


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> I have to disagree on a couple accounts.
> 
> Bender doesn't have Chandler size. Tyson is not monster by any means, but he's got a good 20lbs at least on Bender.
> ...



i have to disagree, bender is not soft at all, he is a traffic dunker, he posterizes guys with ferocious dunks in traffic, like tmac can











bender plays his best ball at the 4 spots because he takes advantage of his man with his quickness, see the picture above, bender was playing PF with oneal at center. bender is also known for his uncanny shot-blocking

btw... its me ZHI_ZHI's_WANG from nbadraft.net, i've had discussions with you before :yes:


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

even as the biggest pacers fan in the world i gotta say clipper i mean they'll be #4 in the west this year compared to us #3 in the east

we win 50 games they win 53 games bulls win 29 games

Kandi vs. Miller we win
Brand vs. JO even
Odom vs. Artest/Harrington we win
Q vs. Reggie we win
Miller vs. Tins they win

hey we look better on paper!:banana:


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> 
> I do agree that Bender may have the physical gifts that Brand, Miller, etc may have. But, so does Keon Clark. And he isn't anywhere near their class, even though he's far superior in terms of physical tools.


keon is an athletic jumping jack who knows how to use his athletisicm, he could be a 16 and 9 guy if he ever started, he dosent have the talent to drop 25ppg 12rpg, is more of a camby-type awsome shotblocking rebounding freak, but bender is as much of a freak, but he also has the talent to do more then that, he can shoot the three with a butter touch, handle the rock, defend etc... he's an inside-out player while keon is purely inside 10 feet

lets put it this way, your a clipper fan, and you know what miles can do, well bender is 7 feet, can do all the things miles does, but has a sweet stroke on his j all the way to the 3, and can play 4 positions

i understand where your coming from, when elton was a bull, people used to tell us ALL THE TIME that he would never be a full blown superstar, that he couldnt handle duncan, garnett etc... and as a bulls fan as well as an elton fan, i just didnt wanna hear it, i tuned out those people because i knew that elton was a hard worker and always give it his all, i always pointed out to his stats to "prove" that elton was a superstar, but stats dont tell the whole story, and from a scouting standpoint, i knew the doubters were right, but like i said, i just didnt want to hear it, and then we saw tmac totally explode into the star he is today, then jermaine oneal etc.. bender and miles are next


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

While I'll agree that Clark isn't a 30/12 type player, I do believe he has the skills to be a star, and push 20/9 numbers.

Clark has a decent mid range jumper for a big man(4). He has excellent handles and driving ability for a 4. He's an excellent shot blocker, has long arms, and can grab boards.

He could be an excellent all around, very versatile 4man in the league if he figured out how to put all his skills to use. 

As for the Miles comparison, again, I disagree. Bender has or does 2 things better than Miles - He's a couple inches taller, and he's a better shooter. That's it.

Miles is a far superior ball handler than Bender. He's a much better penetrator than Bender. And he's quicker/more athletic. I understand that Bender is a standout athlete as well, but he's not in Miles' class. He's the quickest, most athletic player over 6'8 in the league. 
And defense is what sets everything apart. Bender may block some shots, cuz he's tall. But Miles does the same thing, and has fantastic defensive instincts and can cover anyone on the court, aside from the 5. He can be a shut down defender.

Miles has shown more ability in 2 years, than Bender has during his time. And most importantly, Miles has shown the feel for the game that very few guys from HS display that early.

And, I don't even think Miles is going to reach that dominant/stud level. So I don't see Bender making it either.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> While I'll agree that Clark isn't a 30/12 type player, I do believe he has the skills to be a star, and push 20/9 numbers.
> 
> Clark has a decent mid range jumper for a big man(4). He has excellent handles and driving ability for a 4. He's an excellent shot blocker, has long arms, and can grab boards.
> ...


bender hasnt played as much as miles had, miles was lucky enough to get on a team willing to play him like the bulls are with our guys, bender averaged less then 5mpg his first 3 years whereas miles has played 26mpg, miles didnt have to fight to get on the court, his playing time was given to him, bender had to sit behind jalen rose, al harrington, austin croschere, derrick mckie, and jermaine oneal, so i dont think you've seen enough of bender as i have to make such conclusions on him

we'll come back to this thread when bender is busting ***, im not sure how many minutes he'l get this year playing behind ron artest, austin croschere, jermaine oneal and al harrington, two of those guys will have to be traded this year for everyone to get a serious look at bender


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Bender may or may not reach superstar status. I just happen to think it's a much safer bet to make that he does not become one.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i love the pacers, bulls, and clippers. i'd have to say that the clips have the edge over the pacers (although very close), cept they're in the west of course. pacers could very well make the finals this year. bender and miles are both studs in my opinion and i see no reason they won't be future all-stars. both next-gen sf's cept miles' shot needs some work (i'm sure it will come). bender may be the most athletic player 6'11" and up in the nba. i see bender's potential around KG and dirk; miles around t-mac and KG. i realize the magnitude of these comparisons and i'm not saying that these players will ever reach those levels but the potential is there. however, it will be miles (who's more ready at this point) that will be given a chance to flourish with cleveland and bender who will remain bogged down by the deep indi bench.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Its great to finally find a forum with real basketball fans. I'm as big a clipper fanatic as you'll find and this whole Kandi situation is frustrating, but dissapointing more. With the numbers he has produced in his career he shouldn't have demanded max money, especially from D.S. I was hoping he would approach with a resonable figure and begin a domino effect. If a deal between Kandi and the Clippers had been "relativly" smooth then the future negotiations regarding Brand, Odom and Maggette would've been alot easier on both sides. Clippers players need to see someone resigned desperately. I agree with everyone else when they say Kandi is not worth the max, and D.S. is limiting his risk of being stuck with a big contract, but Kandi is important, I just don't know what he was thinking asking for the max as if money issues with the organization could not be worse. Odom (if he performs this year), Brand, Maggette and even Miller are more important. Who knows though maybe Ely will be a big surprise and change this entire situation. Did you guys see the post comparing Swift to Miles, please Stromile better than D-Miles!:no:


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Sorry guys I posted my message on the wrong thread. But what kind of contract does Reggie have? Is he going to be a Pacer for life or should they try and get something for him even if it upsets the fans.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Sorry guys I posted my message on the wrong thread. But what kind of contract does Reggie have? Is he going to be a Pacer for life or should they try and get something for him even if it upsets the fans.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> Its great to finally find a forum with real basketball fans. I'm as big a clipper fanatic as you'll find and this whole Kandi situation is frustrating, but dissapointing more. With the numbers he has produced in his career he shouldn't have demanded max money, especially from D.S. I was hoping he would approach with a resonable figure and begin a domino effect. If a deal between Kandi and the Clippers had been "relativly" smooth then the future negotiations regarding Brand, Odom and Maggette would've been alot easier on both sides. Clippers players need to see someone resigned desperately. I agree with everyone else when they say Kandi is not worth the max, and D.S. is limiting his risk of being stuck with a big contract, but Kandi is important, I just don't know what he was thinking asking for the max as if money issues with the organization could not be worse. Odom (if he performs this year), Brand, Maggette and even Miller are more important. Who knows though maybe Ely will be a big surprise and change this entire situation. Did you guys see the post comparing Swift to Miles, please Stromile better than D-Miles!:no:



Welcome. It's good to have more clips fans on the board


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