# Vince finally comes forward....he wants out [MERGED]



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

*Vince finally comes forward....he wants out*

http://tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=98854


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

let the bashing begin


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Vince Carter demands trade*

Vince Carter says it's time to go. 

"It's time for the truth: I want to be traded, I'm ready to be traded," the 27-year-old Raptor all-star told the Star last night. 

"First and foremost, this has nothing to do with the fans or the city, it's just time for me to look after me." 

Carter, who has been the subject of intense trade rumours since the end of the season, said his decision to go public last night is because he's frustrated at the pace of trade talks the Raptors have been pursuing. 

EDIT- posting entire articles violates our copyright policies, please provide only a quote or two and a link in the future.


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## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

Get him Raps fans!


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Wow... if he does get traded... this might be the biggest offseason EVER!


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> let the bashing begin


ok since you asked....

because of vince Toronto had to:
1. enure hakeem
2. loose keon for nothing
3. loose childs and Oakley (not my favorite raps but he demanded they leave and his suggested replacements we worse ... palacio etc)

so this spring for the first time in 6 years he did not get his way and before even playing 1/2 season (with out having his way) he wants to go.... huh?

and people say he is a good guy?

er... is ray allen still available - perhaps but at what price?

ray allen has been better in recent years.

http://www.hoopsdata.com/trend.php?...player2=Allen, Ray&player3=&player4=&stat=eff


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

EHL has been hooking up the news lately, good lookin' out. I actually made 5 offseason predictions before the offseason started. One of them was that either Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce or Jason Kidd would be traded. So this is good news as far as the accuracy of my predictions.

I think everyone who isnt a Raptors fan is saying its about time for Vince to find a new home.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

the thing is, the player has no leverage. If the Raps dont want to trade him, there is no reason to do so. King of like the kings with Peja. You want to leave, but guess what, its too damn bad you signed a contract

I think they may look at the allen deal, but if that doesnt work out, which it probably wont because Vince named 3 teams (NY, who has nothing but bad contracts and older players to offer. Orlando, and most of their team cant be traded for a little bit, and probably woujldnt want to touch Vince after having all those problems with Tmac. And Miami, who literally has zip to offer), then I think that he will be held on to. Their would be no need and no advantage to the team to trade him. That allen deal is the only one, but Seattle wont do it becasue they dont want to trade so much for an unhappy player


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

Why did he have to wait less then a month before training camp to do this?


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

well it was good while it lasted VC good luck on your next team and lets move on


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I've writed on both Seattle and NO boards, this three-team idea...

New Orleans trades: PG Baron Davis (22.9 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 7.5 apg in 40.1 minutes) 
SF Jamal Mashburn (20.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 38.4 minutes) 
New Orleans receives: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes) 
SF Lamond Murray (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.7 minutes) 
PG Milt Palacio (4.4 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.1 apg in 20.5 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +3.9 ppg, +8.5 rpg, and +0.3 apg. 

Seattle trades: SG Ray Allen (23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.4 minutes) 
Seattle receives: PG Baron Davis (22.9 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 7.5 apg in 67 games) 
Change in team outlook: -0.1 ppg, -0.8 rpg, and +2.7 apg. 

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes) 
SF Lamond Murray (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.7 minutes) 
PG Milt Palacio (4.4 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.1 apg in 20.5 minutes) 
Toronto receives: SF Jamal Mashburn (20.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 19 games) 
SG Ray Allen (23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 56 games) 
Change in team outlook: -3.8 ppg, -7.7 rpg, and -3.0 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


I think that is a good shake-up to both three teams...

Seattle grab a good PG in Baron Davis, so Flip Murray can play more minutes (as a SG), and they can sign Kutulay too...

If he agree to play in NO and Western Conference, Vince would bring fans to New Orleans games... And help them...

Ray Allen and Mashburn (if healthy) can help a lot in TO too.. And Raps can use Matt Bonner as a replacement for Marshall (although I know that Donyell is better, so Mashburn is better than Murray)


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

1) Duh, Vince is all about Vince.

2) Only a week ago he had a letter stating he only wanted to win, what changed? Was he perhaps waiting for the feces to hit the fan in Toronto regarding the NHL lockout, so the media spotlight would not be solely focused on him. Come on, even you Vince appologists know that Vince will not be the subject of call-in show ire, the lockout is. Coincidence. If you say yes you are dillusional.

3) This changes nothing. He still has zero leverage. We all knew he wanted out pretty much as soon as they hired Rob.

4) I place the blame squarely on Rob who should have dealt him before the draft regardless of Vince's wishes.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

This changes nothing. Babcock has known he wants out for sometime and has already been looking for deal (even if just accepting phone calls). If he was ready to deal him, or if aything promissing had come up, VC would already be gone. Babcock has said that he's looking for a proper value for him, and that he's not goin to make a move to satisfy Vince if it hurts the team.

I think that theres just no real takers right now - maybe when Seattle and Ray Allen decide yes/no to this $100 million contract we keep hearing about something will happen. Otherwise, Vince you might as well start the season on a role and see if you can increase your own value.


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Good thing we added all those teams a generation ago.....it really hasn't hurt the league............

:|


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Nothing really new. Only the naive or hopelessly optimistic really believed VC was going to give the team a real chance. He made up his mind long ago.

Clearly he was lying all along and had told Babs to trade him. Kept quiet to let Babs be able to work a better deal. That's OK.

But now he's upping the pressure on Babs, just as I predicted. The agents comments were step 1, this is step 2.




> Carter, who has been the subject of intense trade rumours since the end of the season, said his decision to go public last night is because he's frustrated at the pace of trade talks the Raptors have been pursuing.
> 
> He said he's made it known to new general manager Rob Babcock and first-year head coach Sam Mitchell that he wants out of Toronto but he isn't sure they are investigating possible deals as strongly as they could be.
> 
> "I want a fair shot at being on the market and being traded and I feel I haven't had that fair shot," Carter said in a telephone interview. "This is about doing what's best for me."


Quite frankly Babs has already said publicly that he doesn't care if a player screams for a trade from the tallest building. VC is under contract.

Even if VC doesn't report to camp Babs should just let him sit out without pay until the best deal comes around. 

Ideally VC should have been traded on draft day but the Raps delayed Babs hiring too long for him to do all the proper investigation to get full value.

Just think of the damage VC just did to the team psyche going into training camp. This should be the time of year that our players are excited and optimistic and hungry for the season. Instead they have no idea what the team will look like.

You know why VC doesn't want to be in the West Conference? Because its not prime time. Not as many people will see his highlights. All about VC.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

no, don trade him yet, i wanna heckle him on opening day....:laugh:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Even I one of the biggest fans cant help but seeing Vince being a tad bit selfish in this case. Sure he wants to win, but this raps team not the best but they arent terrible. Vince is looking for highlights and getting unto primetime TV and this raps team wont give him that, thats really sad if he wont sacrifice that for the benefit of the team. I'll always be a Vince fan and I will support him wherever he goes but to announce this just before training camp starts is really bad. How will he feel walking into that camp with all those players knowing he wants out


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CrookedJ</b>!
> This changes nothing. Babcock has known he wants out for sometime and has already been looking for deal (even if just accepting phone calls...


I agree - the other interesting thing is the timing - the more I think about it the more I think they are working together on this.

consider:
1. they did it the day of the lockout - this is not the lead story in TO
2. Carter saying things like "... it's time to resurect my career..."

I am still thinking about that one...


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

I love how he says its nothing against the fans, but he totally screws over his teammates and the fans by going public with this so close to training camp. If he would have stood up and told the truth a long time ago when this story started to break, the fans wouldn’t have been strung along for long. 
Whatever, I am almost as sick of this story as i am the CBA 
I cant believe how immature, spoiled, and greedy people in these positions can be


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Magic trade:

Cuttino Mobely+Pat Garrity+Deshawn Stevenson+2 future first rounders 

Raptors trade:
Vince Carter+ one of their scrubs



hahaha..that would be halarious though if he ended up on the Magic....and would be even funnier if he stayed long enough and Tmac decided to come back to Orlando....


But that won't happen. i just woke up from a nightmare so I'm trying to think of something to get it off my mind


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Miami arent legit locks to win the championship with Wade and Shaq, but Vince and Shaq does sound enticing


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Miami arent legit locks to win the championship with Wade and Shaq, but Vince and Shaq does sound enticing


Two injury prone superstars


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> I think everyone who isnt a Raptors fan is saying its about time for Vince to find a new home.


Actually, at least 50% to 75% of Raptor fans want him gone. I wanted him gone before he even wanted to go. ( I get those numbers from talking to reporters/writers who get fan emails)


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

This is almost no better than the T-Mac situation regarding misleading the fans...

I guess it runs in their blood.

I hope he gets booed to hell during all preseason/season home games... I don't care how immature it is


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Miami arent legit locks to win the championship with Wade and Shaq, but Vince and Shaq does sound enticing


If Miami wasn't willing to part with Wade for Shaq, I'm not sure if they'll part with him for Vince Carter. Orlando is probably a more likely destination if they want him. They have the pieces to make ti happen.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>wadeshaqeddie</b>!
> the thing is, the player has no leverage. If the Raps dont want to trade him, there is no reason to do so. King of like the kings with Peja. You want to leave, but guess what, its too damn bad you signed a contract
> 
> I think they may look at the allen deal, but if that doesnt work out, which it probably wont because Vince named 3 teams (NY, who has nothing but bad contracts and older players to offer. Orlando, and most of their team cant be traded for a little bit, and probably woujldnt want to touch Vince after having all those problems with Tmac. And Miami, who literally has zip to offer), then I think that he will be held on to. Their would be no need and no advantage to the team to trade him. That allen deal is the only one, but Seattle wont do it becasue they dont want to trade so much for an unhappy player


What do you mean a player has no leverage? If he doesn't want to play he'll find a way...


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NYKBaller</b>!
> 
> What do you mean a player has no leverage? If he doesn't want to play he'll find a way...


Real leverage is when the player can threaten to become a FA, and leave the team for nothing in return. This was T-Mac's scenario. But Vince has no option to opt out of his contract. He's signed for the next three years. He could refuse to play, but then he wouldn't get paid.

I don't mind if Vince gets traded, as long as the Raps get decent value for him. If they trade him to NY for bad contracts, ugh :no:.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

> Quite frankly Babs has already said publicly that he doesn't care if a player screams for a trade from the tallest building. VC is under contract.


This couldn't be more true. I am so glad Babcock isn't a little ***** giving into Vince's every demand. I seem to recall a similar situation happening with Pavel Bure back in Vancouver. Who cares what you think Vince, you signed a contract and techincally we own you so if we get a good deal we'll give you up.

Now people will probably read that and think it is psychotic but when you think about it, it really makes. "People should be aloud to go wherever they want" they'll say. "It's a free country" they'll say.

At the end of the day Vince Carter will have to suffer getting paid millions of dollars living in a massive mansion with the respect of millions of fans everywhere. Whether he is on the court or not.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

I don't think Orlando would take Vince unless they were getting an amazing deal which probably won't happen..

They wouldn't take a player who is demanding a trade...lol..thats not weisbrod's idea of a good player..he wants tough guys..not soft guys??? i don't know but sometimes i hear toronto fans complain that vince is soft sometimes and doesnt want to always shoot the ball..

the only reason i would want vince is for more exciting games....francis+vince+hill= as exciting or almost as exciting as tracy mcgrady...... 

i wouldnt mind if he only avg 20ppg/5rpg/4apg...it would still be sweet


I could see Hedo+Mobely+someone else for Carter+someone else..but again... .0000001 percent chance of this happening


and the only reason weisbrod would do it is to make the orlando magic fans happy.


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> I don't think Orlando would take Vince unless they were getting an amazing deal which probably won't happen..
> 
> They wouldn't take a player who is demanding a trade...lol..thats not weisbrod's idea of a good player..he wants tough guys..not soft guys??? i don't know but sometimes i hear toronto fans complain that vince is soft sometimes and doesnt want to always shoot the ball..
> ...


no francis = no carter, francis is probably the only guy the raptors would take. Francis probably will refuse to play in toronto so i don't see the magic getting carter. 

Carter has zero leverage, because of the lenght of his contract, same with Tmac and b-diddy. Shaq could have left for free same with Tmac so they had the ball in there court.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> 
> 
> This couldn't be more true. I am so glad Babcock isn't a little ***** giving into Vince's every demand. I seem to recall a similar situation happening with Pavel Bure back in Vancouver. Who cares what you think Vince, you signed a contract and techincally we own you so if we get a good deal we'll give you up.
> ...


You got it - I understand Vince's sentiment, he wants to live closer to home perhaps, I might feel the same. But he's an adult, and has to live with the consequences of his desicions (ie signing a long term deal) - its not like the team moved to Toronto AFTER he signed it!


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## Real McCoy (Oct 17, 2003)

Damn, why did he wait so long? He is stuck. LMAO at Vince.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Hey Vince can always sit-out. That won't get him traded, but it will get him labelled even further as a whiner and cry-baby.

Orlando can't make the deal. Francis is as ignorant as they come regarding Canada. We don't want him. Howard is Untradeable. The rest is fodder.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Get Allen Babs!!!

Carter is not good as Pierce we wont get him in a deal
Iverson is a headcase but would'nt mind a swap

Allen is the best guy to get in return for Carter.


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

Certainly wasn't the best of timings. Hopefully, a deal can be worked out in the very near future, as this can really affect the team's morale coming into the new season. 

Ray Allen should be a pretty good trade. :yes:


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

You want Gordon, ERob, and Pippen for Vince?


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

Well now that everything is finally out in the open ... we should be seeing some better ball play from Vince in the first half of the season. he knows how the trade game works ... you want out ? ..make other people want you !! play like you never played before, like a demon possessed, have other teams call US and offer up their bigs ... that's how you get traded and that's how you get out.

Want out ?
Work for it and earn it ... just like all the other scrubs !!
Cause nothin comes from nothin and we're not trading until we get fair value.

know your role and JUST DO IT !


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

vince dint say he wanted to be traded earlier because of two reasons. 

1. that would afect the amount of people who would attend his all star game, had he deande a trade, the bashings would have begun early, and no one wouldve have gone to his game, therefore no money for his charity. 

2. there was nothing else in the sporting news world (as mentioned before) and he would have been the focal point of EVERYTHING that has to do with basketball, and we all no how much vince hates reporters and being in the spotlight. the NHL lockout was the perfect scenario for him. all the sports shows will be talking about that, for example on tsn this morning, he got like less them 3 minutes on him. vince and his people are VERY VERY VERY smart...


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PD</b>!
> You want Gordon, ERob, and Pippen for Vince?


Originally, before the draft, I wanted 3 and 8 + trash (ER + Pip or whatever) for Vince. This line of thinking meant you guys offloading useless contracts for Vince but we got some youth.

I would have then accepted Deng + Gordon + fodder but Paxson signed them.

Considering this deal does not touch your bigs, this would be the least Bulls deal I would do. I would rather let VC rot, than take less than what I consider market value.


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## crimsonice (Feb 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PD</b>!
> You want Gordon, ERob, and Pippen for Vince?


More like Gordon/Deng/JYD.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>adhir</b>!
> all the sports shows will be talking about that, for example on tsn this morning, he got like less them 3 minutes on him. vince and his people are VERY VERY VERY smart...


Correction, IMG is VERY VERY VERY smart.


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## crimsonice (Feb 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> Originally, before the draft, I wanted 3 and 8 + trash (ER + Pip or whatever) for Vince. This line of thinking meant you guys offloading useless contracts for Vince but we got some youth.
> ...


My thoughts exactly...


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

WORK A DEAL WITH DALLAS


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Vince going nowhere*



> TORONTO (AP) -- Vince Carter wants out of Toronto, but the Raptors' new general manager says he isn't going anywhere.
> 
> "It doesn't change anything with us," Rob Babcock told The Associated Press on Thursday. "He's under contract with our team. We expect him to fulfill all obligations of the contract."
> 
> "Is it the ideal way going to camp? No," Babcock said. "But it's really not the nightmare that other people think it is. Would I'd rather he was here without making any public statements and that he was 100 percent behind everything here, yeah absolutely, but he's under contract and I think Vince is a good person, and I think he'll be professional and do what he's supposed to do and fulfill his job."


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...DE?SITE=TXHOU&SECTION=SPORTS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

y not to indiana for artest + filler


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## trees (Jun 11, 2003)

Vince to New Orleans
Baron Davis to Seatle
Ray Allen to Toronto
you can add some others here and there to make it work


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

after reading the article in the star, wow Vince seems like a major *******, he said he dosent want to be traded into the western conference and wants to play in either New York(which is stupid cause if he misses a game there he will get destroyed by the media) or florida, well sorry Vince you cant force Babs to trade you to a certain team, isnt it enough that he is at least going to trade you?

Me and Budboy were talking today, would you do this trade

Toronto Gives: Vince Carter and Chris Bosh
Toronto Recieves: Shaq and Eddie Jones

btw Sam Mitchell is going to be on Chuck's show at 3pm to 4


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

it's true that Vince has no legal leverage to get out of Toronto, but he's got de facto leverage that's probably just as important. 

what team wants their superstar to show up for work every day grousing to teammates and the media about how he's wasting his best years in a bad situation? the Clippers are the only team I can think of who would happily live with that. 

it hurts team performance and (perhaps more importantly) it huts ticket sales. Vince is the only reason I can see to attend a Raptors game. if I'm a Raptors fan and he's told me he doesn't want to play there anymore, he's basically killed my top motivation for attending games. 

if he's not happy, Toronto needs to trade him BEFORE he becomes a cancer to the franchise and his trade value plummets (more than it already has with these statements).

it always shocks me when players say these kind of things openly. it puts his franchise in a position of weakness and desperation. 

he should have met with management and told them he will be holding a press conference in a month to tell the world he's enraged at being a Raptor. trade me between now and then.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

vince can get fugged as far as i'm concerned. 

does he see any correlation between his play and the teams downfall? guess what, your supporting cast was never that good. you were. so maybe you should trade yourself for the old vince. you're the one who lost the commitment to winning vince, not the raptors. what a puzzy. 

IMO vince's comments about not going to a title contender being ok and not going to the western conference say it all. winning has nothing to do with it. dr. ellen god damn rucker has everything to do with it. she doesn't want to live in toronto. end of story. 

it's not that hard vince, if you actually want to win, take it to the hoop every time you touch the ball. every time. he's the best athlete in the league and he will get calls if he just DRIVES. then the raptors will be in the playoffs and be just as good as they were before he got so soft.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> it's true that Vince has no legal leverage to get out of Toronto, but he's got de facto leverage that's probably just as important.
> 
> what team wants their superstar to show up for work every day grousing to teammates and the media about how he's wasting his best years in a bad situation? the Clippers are the only team I can think of who would happily live with that.
> ...


If he has to go into Raptors training camp, he is going to have to take it on the chin from Rose and Bosh and the rest. "You don't want to be here with us? Sit your sorry *** down and put that blanking pacifier back in your mouth. " 

Crappy attitude or not, Vince has made his bed, now he's resigned to lie in it until some team steps up with a solid offer.

If there was a solid offer in the past 2-3 months, Babcock would have taken it. He has not received one yet.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

what i said in the nba forum:

the thing is, the player has no leverage. If the Raps dont want to trade him, there is no reason to do so. Kind of like the kings with Peja. You want to leave, but guess what, its too damn bad you signed a contract

I think they may look at the allen deal, but if that doesnt work out, which it probably wont because Vince named 3 teams (NY, who has nothing but bad contracts and older players to offer. Orlando, and most of their team cant be traded for a little bit, and probably woujldnt want to touch Vince after having all those problems with Tmac. And Miami, who literally has zip to offer), then I think that he will be held on to. Their would be no need and no advantage to the team to trade him. That allen deal is the only one, but Seattle wont do it becasue they dont want to trade so much for an unhappy player


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> If he has to go into Raptors training camp, he is going to have to take it on the chin from Rose and Bosh and the rest. "You don't want to be here with us? Sit your sorry *** down and put that blanking pacifier back in your mouth. "
> ...


Who the heck is Jalen Rose and Chris Bosh. Who cares what either of them think? Vince probably made it clear early this summer, either himself or through his agent, to Toronto management that he wanted to be traded but he seems the BSing around. So with less than 2 months until training camp he decided to apply just a little more pressure to them.

If you want to blame anyone, blame Toronto management. They(I think) knew he wanted to be traded and they should have moved him. Soon it becomes ugly. Vince's greatest asset (filling the stadium) becomes useless when he is disgruntled and reporters now will be asking him daily about his desire to leave. I can imagine Toronto fans taking this personally.

PS. I sure hope Jerry West makes a freaking offer this time...jeez louise.:upset: :laugh: :devil:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> If he has to go into Raptors training camp, he is going to have to take it on the chin from Rose and Bosh and the rest. "You don't want to be here with us? Sit your sorry *** down and put that blanking pacifier back in your mouth. "


What makes you think that Bosh and Rose wont agree with Vince on this decision. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes, heck didnt Rose himself say he would like to play for the knicks. If Vince ends up being traded and this team doesnt win, we will see how long it takes before other players start whining


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> Who the heck is Jalen Rose and Chris Bosh. Who cares what either of them think?


The point is, what happens if he is not traded? How can he look his teammates in the eye, whoever they are. He essentially slapped them all in the face.

And no one in the city is going to take this personally. Unlike Me-Mac, Vince loves the city and fans.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> If you want to blame anyone, blame Toronto management. They(I think) knew he wanted to be traded and they should have moved him.


So they should just deal him right away, even if no good offers have come in? I mean they can't just give away a player. He's making pretty unreasonable demans to be traded to Florida or New York, 3 teams that really can't give us ****. He's gonna have to play up his value if he wants out that badly. Should we have taken the Shandon Anderson deal?? LOL!!


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

A bad franchise has ruined yet another potentially great player :no:


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

wow I am so disenfranshised with the state of basketball in Toronto. We dealt with T-Mac leaving, the disgruntled old man Davis wanting out, now the much expected VC trade demand...my question is under any circumstance can we have players signed or unsigned that will shut up and just play?

I used to be a big Basketball fan, but everyday that passes I am starting to really not care about something that I would say I once was really passionate about.

Good Luck VC, it was a great season and a half of highlights, and one playoff run that caught the hearts and imagination of a city...that being said I do not want to see another Davis situation nor am I optimistic about the future of Basketball in T.O

I think our only solution is...getting the Toronto native JAMAL MAGLOIRE when his contract runs out, we need players who want to be here and will play here win or lose. I'm not hating, but I hope Vince gets traded to the Pacific northwest ie.Seattle, so we don't have to face him and he will get a taste of he rain and be much further from his sunny florida home


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Man I'm so sick of players going public about their desire to be traded.... what it does is it hurts their image, nothing more. Vince was one of my fav players, and even when the trade rumours were swirling I was still supporting him. But for him to go public after allll this time, and right before the start of the season too... that's just. What happened Vince? Wife want you to move elsewhere?

It's BS for him to want to be traded to a winning team, it just means that he doesn't have what it takes to lead a team to the playoffs anymore. What winning team do you think will want you Vince?

Indiana? I'd rather keep Artest thank you
Detroit? At least Prince plays D
San Antonio? Heck Ginobilli can probably break your ankles right now

Only slight possbilities I see are T'Wolves and Kings, but Babcock knows better than to work out a deal that he doesn't want.

Anyway I'm so disappointed in 1/2 man 1/2 a season right now it's not even funny... I hope the Raptors do trade him, get some nice players in return, and make a playoff run, just to shove it in his face....


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^Yaomania this doesnt even have to do with a winning team, Vince just wants out of the raps. In that same interview he said something like he wouldnt mind playing for a losing team. No one knows what happenend behind the scenes am just disappointed he is not willing to give the new regime a chance


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

*Hawk Possiblity?*

What about 

To Trades:
Carter 
A. Williams

Atl Trades:
Walker
Childress
J. Smith

Salaries would work. Raps get an expiring contract with Walker, and some good players for the future with Bosh. Carter gets to go near Fla, therefore Hawks get a happy carter.

What do you think?


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> The point is, what happens if he is not traded? How can he look his teammates in the eye, whoever they are. He essentially slapped them all in the face.
> 
> And no one in the city is going to take this personally. Unlike Me-Mac, Vince loves the city and fans.


I don't know why you think all your players have such fragile emotions. Every player understands that the NBA is a business. If Vince Carter insults the quality of his supporting cast and Jalen Rose and Chris Bosh read about it in the paper, I bet they'll get over it pretty quickly.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> ^Yaomania this doesnt even have to do with a winning team, Vince just wants out of the raps. In that same interview he said something like he wouldnt mind playing for a losing team. No one knows what happenend behind the scenes am just disappointed he is not willing to give the new regime a chance


http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2004/09/16/631816-cp.html



> "My frustration comes from the fact that we have not been able to create an equation to win ball games," Carter wrote. "I am at the point in my career where I do not have time to wait two to four years for a team to mature."


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Didn't he already demand a trade once this summer?


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Carter is a [email protected]@
first he said sign Nash and get Magolire and now he is demanding New york or a Florida well Fuc^ him we'll deal him to whoever offers us the best in return and Seattle is at the top.

Boston maybe 
Cllippers nah


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> "I want them to get someone of fair value. ... but I'm looking for a new start for Vince right now," he said. "I've never been this way, but it's time. I've looked around at so many rosters trying to find what would help this team and it's hard."





> Carter said he wouldn't want to get traded to a Western Conference team and he's not adamant about joining a club with a legitimate chance to win the NBA title any time soon.





> He conceded it would be interesting to play in New York ("It's the mecca of basketball," he said) despite the presence of ex-Raptor coach Lenny Wilkens, with whom Carter clashed in 2002-03."I would love to play in Florida (where he was born and maintains an off-season home). It's just time to move."


Thestar.com


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Carter said he wouldn't want to get traded to a Western Conference team and he's not adamant about joining a club with a legitimate chance to win the NBA title any time soon.


Reason: Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant

YOU SUCK VINCE!!!


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Someone please tell this guy that Toronto has a much better chance to win a championship in the forseeable future than the New York Knicks.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Someone please tell this guy that Toronto has a much better chance to win a championship in the forseeable future than the New York Knicks.


:yes:

Anyway, at the end of the day Vince Carter will still be a Toronto Raptor. They've obviously been shopping him all summer and they haven't gotten an offer they like, and I don't think that's going to change now that he's publicly demanded a trade. My personal opinion is that the Raptors would be better off trading him along with Alvin Williams (*no one* will trade for Jalen Rose) for expiring contracts, even if they don't get much talent in return. But I think Toronto's ownership is too afraid of what would happen to attendance if they made a trade like that. So they'll just keep him.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> 
> :yes:
> ...


Actually now that he's gone public I don't think the fans will be very high on him. His charity game didn't sell out 'cuz the trade rumours were swirling around in the summer. If the Raps can bring in an all-star name in a trade I think it'll actually help attendance.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

*Finally!*

There's two bonus's to this.

One, we get rid of the whiner. lol. I'v been calling for this for a while. I'm not saying YA, trade his *** for nothing. But I think we should dramatically change the make-up of the team. Not by trading straight up for Allen or whatever, but by trading for a package. I'm sure you've read my ideal package for Vince before but. Veteran centre (beefy one), potential player (wing probably), cap relief (in the form of dropping AWilliams, or Lamond Murray, or even Jalen Rose) and a draft pick.

TWO!!! and most importantly! We won't be getting crazy topics around here anymore like:... well... see any thread created by charlz. lol. just kidding charlz. as well as getting the spotlight off of poor MOPETE and his herpes.

Well.. thats all for now

lata


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

oh man, i just feel so sorry for vince- not because he is where is, but because he is _who_ he is. it’s so unfortunate for him to behave the way he has, for him to foster the viewpoints he does, for him to have such blatant tunnel vision regarding his career, for him to be in utter denial of his most pressing issues, and for him to take those shortcomings out on the wrong stakeholders (i.e. the fans, the organization, his teammates, etc.). he simply approaches things in the manner that leads to the fewest fruits and it’s becoming increasingly harder to witness, even as an outsider.

you don’t even need to take his statements apart to expose his flawed logic- it’s so *obvious*. you pull for him as a human being to acknowledge some of the more important factors in basketball/life, but it’s all for naught. he seems caught in this web, so confused by what he does, who he is, and how that impacts on the lives of his peers, what they do and who _they_ are. he’s not malicious per se, but given how baffled he is by his quest for success, he may as well be; he just doesn’t “get it”. he doesn’t understand.

i wish i could side with this man but, objectively, you can’t help but notice how many checkmarks have been tallied against him, and how that total dwarfs the few checkmarks actually in his favour. 

he wants this, he wants that, he is owed this, he is owed that- open your eyes, buddy, not for your fans but for yourself. step out from under that cloud of denial. nobody’s going to do the dirty work for you- be it in toronto, new york or elsewhere.

i bet he's going to be thrown in the midst of a massive backlash in the coming weeks/months, and i just hope he prepares himself for it. he didn't exactly "prepare himself" for the summer trade rumours very well (despite his public statements in april), so who knows how he'll weather the _next_ storm? as a fellow human being, i hope he finds his way.

but i can't say i _expect_ that he will.

peace


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

note: one more thing to throw onto the pile of negativity- rob babcock has been reiterating the "we expect everyone under contract to show up to camp in shape" far too often for my liking. this is probably the definition of "speculation", but it's becoming harder to not take that statement as a slander in vince carter's direction.

i know vince's workout habits have recently been getting too much play around here, but there have simply been too many "signs" substantiating the rumours in the past few weeks. 

"we expect everyone in camp... in shape", over and over and over again. i can't say i'm sure that they're (sam mitchell and babcock) talking about vince, but man...

sometimes the implication sticks out like a sore thumb, and you can't help but wonder what it means. 

peace


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

The Raptors don't need help to sell tickets, they are consistently have one of the highest attendances despite probably the second or third highest ticket prices in the league (i think LA and New York are higher im not sure). Especially now with the NHL lockout i think the Raps will be doing very well because of corporatations will be looking to scoop up seats to the Raptors now that leafs are gone.


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Haven't been following his injuries.....are they serious where they'll be with him for the rest of his career with a real possibility of missing several games each season?
Or, are they the type where it's most likely past him now?



Yao Mania, that's the funniest sig EVER!!!!!!!!!!


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Yao Mania, that's the funniest sig EVER!!!!!!!!!!


I can only take credit for making it my sig


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## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

I never ever thought id hear myself say these words: F*** Vince, trade his ***!:upset:


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm so sick of these jerk "stars" demanding trades and then thinking they can dictate the teams that they can be traded to. It's so ridiculous and you can't run a league like this, it needs to be addressed in collective bargaining or pretty soon this will be a league of have's and have not's.....Miami, Houston, LA Lakers, San Antonio, New York will have whoever they want and no one else will have a shot! It ticks me off!


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## Kid_kanada (Jun 23, 2003)

Trade him to the Clippers so he can live in Kobe's shadow.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

What has Vince Carter done in the last few years notable? Besides limp around and garner all-star votes based on a dunk contest he won several years back? Who would really want him, for basketball purposes? I don't think I would.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> such blatant tunnel vision regarding his career, for him to be in utter denial of his most pressing issues
> 
> approaches things in the manner that leads to the fewest fruits and it’s becoming increasingly harder to witness, even as an outsider.
> ...



Some very interesting points there, that I picked out to highlight.

Watching VC 'manage' his career is indeed painful to watch. Makes you want to take him under your wing and teach him how to deal with the press and control stories instead of digging deeper holes for himself. His PR is truly a trainwreck. He is his own worst enemy at times. How he was not better prepared for all the questions about trade demands all summer is mind boggling.

I truly believe he doesn't understand why his reputation has suffered, why so much is expected of him, and why success hasn't come easy to him the last few years. He doesn't learn the lessons of conditioning and constant improvement of the craft that the great players before him have demonstrated. He doesn't think those rules apply to him.

One poster suggested that all this is about increasing VC's exposure on American TV. That is why the East coast is important but a contender is not. Vince is ruled by his agents at IMG and the marketing community. He is the Anna Kournikova of basketball. All sizzle, no steak. Both talented and photogenic, but not winners.

Another theory says that this is the first year VC can negotiate an extension on his deal and perhaps can demand an extension from the club seeking to trade for him.

I don't read much into Babs comment about 'in camp and in shape'. That may just be something he says all the time. What he expects of any player.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Who would really want him, for basketball purposes? I don't think I would.


So you would turn down a 22/5/5 player if given the opportunity? He played 73 games this past year and looks to be regaining his form.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>HallOfFamer</b>!
> 
> 
> So you would turn down a 22/5/5 player if given the opportunity? He played 73 games this past year and looks to be regaining his form.


Seriously, the guy quietly puts together an excellent season in which injuries were a much smaller factor than they were the previous two years, yet nobody recognizes that. Just because he isn't dunking as much as he did four years ago doesn't mean that he is a poor player; he has been improving alot in other aspects of his game and he is only twenty seven, it isn't like he's over the hill.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Well, I had hoped Vince wouldn't put the pressure on until after giving the new team a chance but I guess I can understand him wanting a new team to begin the season. 

I'm not entirely sure that this move by Vince isn't completely unwanted by Babcock. This should increase the number of offers that he hears long before the trade deadline, giving him a lot more to work with during this time period. 

I wanted VC to showcase himself with the new team to increase his trade value but is that really feasible now? Do you really want to start a vital season (ie where bball isn't up against hockey) with your "star" player being booed at home? Could be interesting.

I would like to see Babcock find a good deal before the start of the season. Jerry West, with his stockpile of players, seems like the ideal condidate (as I would prefer trading him west).
VC and Moiso for Stromile, Battier, Watson, and a future draft pick. Something like that. 

It's nice that Vince "waited" for a time where we won't actually miss him nearly as much as previous years-

Rafer
Mo 
Rose
Bosh
Ujo

is not a lineup I would dread starting, especially with Marshall coming off the bench. If so desired, we could trade Vince for all developmental players and the Raptors could still compete. 

I wanted to see him play a few more inspired games in a Raptor uniform but I look forward to seeing him with a different team too. Hopefully he can get his career back on track- start winning again- and the Raptors can use this to secure their future as a power in the east. 

A bright day for Raptors fans here at BBB.net! Let the trade ideas begin and get Bosh onto your fantasy team.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

While Vince is a good player, he has time and again proven he has no understanding of the business side of basketball. He seems to be under the impression that the reason the Raptors didn't go after Steve Nash (who Vince wanted) was because they aren't committed to winning. He doesn't understand the salary cap at all. No wonder he wants to go to New York, he just doesn't comprehend what their salary cap situation is like.

The fact is, I think many of the recent moves have been tailored to win now in order to satisfy Vince, at the expense of building a true championship calibre team. Things like trading for Rose, drafting Araujo, and signing Alston, are all win now moves. They might be enough to make the playoffs, but they aren't enough to do any damage in the playoffs. Oh well.


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## pr0wler (Jun 8, 2003)

Seattle trades:

Rashard Lewis
Antonio Daniels
Reggie Evans + cash

to Toronto for

Vince Carter


Seattle

PG - Allen/Ridnour
SG - Murray/Carter
SF - Carter/Radmanovich
PF - Collison/Fortson
C - James/Potapenko


Toronto

PG - Alston/Daniels/Williams
SG - Rose/Peterson
SF - Lewis/Peterson
PF - Bosh/Marshall
C - Araujo/Bosh


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

True, we could have gone with Iggy or Biedrins but an athletic winger should be included in a VC trade and I'm content to go with Ujo over Biedrins as a complement to Bosh.


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## MonkeyBallZJr (May 7, 2004)

Even though everyone will hate Vince for wanting to leave, we still have to respect him and be thankful for all he has done in the community.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> What has Vince Carter done in the last few years notable? Besides limp around and garner all-star votes based on a dunk contest he won several years back? Who would really want him, for basketball purposes? I don't think I would.


What has T-Mac done in the last few yrs other that lead his team to the worst record in the league last season.... ?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

A lot of fans wanted him gone anyways and the others are fans that should have seen this coming for a while now (like me). I don't get the hate.

I'll be happy to see Vince on a new team (if a little sad at the same time) and happy to see the Raptors start (pretty) fresh.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I personally dont have any hate towards him, this has been going on all summer and he just had the guts to back this personally. I actually think it would be better for Vince as a player to get a new change of scenery. I wish him and the raps the best in whatever they do


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Someone please tell this guy that Toronto has a much better chance to win a championship in the forseeable future than the New York Knicks.


Excuse me?

PG: Jamal Crawford
SG: Vince Carter
SF: Tim Thomas
PF: Kurt Thomas
C: Nazr Mohammed

Bench: Allan Houston, Shandon Anderson, Mike Sweetney

That team doesn't contend to win the East? They could at least make the ECF.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I just read the article right now and came here right away. :grinning: 

I don't really know what wires are crossing in Carter's head at the moment, but he really isn't making sence. First he says that he'd like to play for a winning team, and then he goes on to say that he'd love to play in New York. I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto had more wins than New York this upcoming season. 

The Knicks are full of over-played, over-rated players who are mostly out of their prime.

I really don't see the logic of Vince saying he wants to play for a winner and then picking the Knicks - mind you that Lenny is the coach there, and you already know what happened here two years ago.

Vince should be traded for stupidity to the worst team in the league.


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## Pejavlade (Jul 10, 2004)

i heard that huston was intrested in carter i dono if this is true


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> Excuse me?
> ...


That team has got a better chance of winning the lottery than winning the East.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> Excuse me?
> ...


That team is probably worse than Toronto.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Hey Vince can always sit-out. That won't get him traded, but it will get him labelled even further as a whiner and cry-baby.
> 
> Orlando can't make the deal. Francis is as ignorant as they come regarding Canada. We don't want him. Howard is Untradeable. The rest is fodder.


If Toronto got Mobley, Garrity, and 2 first round draft picks - that is more than fodder, imho.

Another team who might figure a way to get Vince could be the TWolves. That would really help the team and Vince.

I'll watch Vince no matter what team he plays on, but I do hope he gets with a team who has a better chance of winning with him on their roster.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> quote:
> Originally posted by Matt85163!
> 
> 
> ...


Worse? I don't see that at all! :no: 

Jamal, Vince, Tom, Kurt, & Nazr, with Houston, Sweetney, & Anderson looks good to me. This is the eastern conference - <b>even with Shaq and Rasheed both back to their roots </b>- that is still a good team!


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## THA DOCTA (Feb 17, 2003)

How about this:

Indiana trades:
SF Jonathan Bender
PG Jamaal Tinsley
Future 1st round pick

Indiana receives:
SF Vince Carter
PG Alvin Williams

Toronto trades:
SF Vince Carter
PG Alvin Williams

Toronto receives:
SF Jonathan Bender
PG Jamaal Tinsley
Future 1st round pick


Indiana Roster:
PG: Alvin Williams
SG: Vince Carter
SF: Ron Artest
PF: Jermaine O'Neal
C: David Harrison

Toronto Roster:
PG: Rafer Alston
SG: Jalen Rose
SF: Jonathan Bender
PF: Chris Bosh
C: Rafeal Araujo

The reason for the trade is Indiana gets a superstar and that extra boost that sends them to the Finals. Toronto gets a nice back-up PG in Tinsley, a first round pick and a promising young SG/SF/PF waiting for the minutes to explode in Jonathan Bender.


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## pr0wler (Jun 8, 2003)

nah...indiana has a logjam at shooting guard/small forward with NO formabidle point guard. (Williams blows).


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The sad thing is whatever team gets Vince is probably going to get a rejuvenated Vince, close to his 2000 form if not better


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

I just hope we make a good deal. The Swirsk had a great rant on his show today about Vince I thought.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> The sad thing is whatever team gets Vince is probably going to get a rejuvenated Vince, close to his 2000 form if not better



I agree, his injuries are getting better and a new team will motivate him.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> Excuse me?
> ...


No, that team is worse than the current one, since Marbury is quite a bit better than Carter. Even so, Carter would be the only player on that team that could be categorized as "good," unless Houston returned to old form. The others range from chumps to slightly above average. And the two Thomases are huge underachievers.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>HallOfFamer</b>!
> 
> 
> So you would turn down a 22/5/5 player if given the opportunity? He played 73 games this past year and looks to be regaining his form.


No, but I thought we were talking about Carter....?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

I'd expect Orlando would probably inquire about Vince, but I doubt seriously anything would happen. I don't think Orlando would be willing to part with either Francis or Howard in order to get Carter. 

Orlando has some others they could offer, but I don't think they'd be able to work a deal unless Carter was in more of a Tmac situation where they'd be in danger of him walking and getting nothing. 

Also, I dont think Carter is Weisbrod's type of player so I don't think he'd pursue it too feverishly. Although he would be an idiot not to from a business standpoint. Vince, if healthy, would be ginormous in Orlando. Anyone who followed basketball in Orlando area at all knew about Vince while he was in HS. 

If Orlando could get Carter for Mobley, Garrity, and fodder, then I think they definitely would. But I don't think Toronto would do it.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxx</b>!
> 
> 
> What has T-Mac done in the last few yrs other that lead his team to the worst record in the league last season.... ?


Lead his team to the playoffs... take the #1 seed to 7 games... been a generally great player, tried to improve his game and succeeded in that, just put forth effort in general. You know, all the things Vince hasn't done in the last few.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> I never ever thought id hear myself say these words: F*** Vince, trade his ***!:upset:


maybe we can get a guy who takes good shots and has a heart in return? :grinning:


he's a good talent and all but damn we just need a more intense player who goes out there and gets it and doesn't take the ***** way out(vince and his lame trade demand.).


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Get him OUTTA here!

But if we are going to trade him, it would be unintelligent to trade him now right after he requests a trade, because of how low his value would be. He should try and showcase himself or play hard for the raps for the first part of the season, so that his value would go up, making both him and the raptors happy. 

And another thing no stupid Ray Allen/Shawn Marion straight up for Vince trades. Those trades make no sense whatsoever, doesn't help either team. If we are going to trade him, i hope to god it will give us young guys to build around Bosh, give us cap room, and fills a need. Maybe not all of those but you get my drift.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

Well, I may as well speak for all the Hawks fans because there are only 1 of us. We'll take Vince down here...for Walker and filler. Or whatever. I'll buy season tickets if we get Vince though. We're going nowhere until we get fan support and he's the best way to get it right now anyway. Until this place gets exciting it'll remain a terrible sports town though, and having VC and Vick in the same city is a good way to turn that around.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*try not to be too biased.*



> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Lead his team to the playoffs... take the #1 seed to 7 games... been a generally great player, tried to improve his game and succeeded in that, just put forth effort in general. You know, all the things Vince hasn't done in the last few.


TMac put forth effort last year?


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

Don't worry guys......
Vince has no value.....Babcock wont do stupid trades....so....Vince is staying


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

You can't expect any player to put forth 100% forth every game when his team is that bad...


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Burn</b>!
> Well, I may as well speak for all the Hawks fans because there are only 1 of us. We'll take Vince down here...for Walker and filler. Or whatever. I'll buy season tickets if we get Vince though. We're going nowhere until we get fan support and he's the best way to get it right now anyway. Until this place gets exciting it'll remain a terrible sports town though, and having VC and Vick in the same city is a good way to turn that around.


Vince has a thing for playing against the hawks =\.... seems to drop 40 on em all the time


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

in my opinion, trading vince would be beneficial if it were to put the team in a rebuilding direction. however, that kind of a decision would be in direct contrast to the philosophy the raptors have been pushing to this point in the summer: araujo was allegedly brought in for his "nba ready" game; and skip was brought in to solidify the backcourt from nov 1. pursuing the rebuilding path now would have this team sitting on the fence yet _again_- all prior to even one game being played under the new regime.

i'm not the first to say it, but today's/yesterday's news changes very little. given the gravity of the situation and the various factors at play in the management office/locker room, trading the franchise superstar would be an especially dangerous move _today_ (as opposed to even three or four months ago). vince can throw a tantrum (and is that really out of the question?) and it just wouldn't change all that much.

it probably wouldn't change anything.

of course, if he does indeed stick around, we could still begin the season on a winning note and, with carter, that _could_ potentially change *everything*. i wouldn't put it past him to have a 180 degree change of heart in the middle of december upon realizing that the raptors have a legitimate shot for the 3 seed in the conference (on account of their being in one of the league's weakest divisions). i firmly believe that such "obvious realities" are lost on our beloved vince, and that a lot of this summer's controversies were only borne out of childish knee-jerk reactions (partly catalyzed by family, agents, friends, media... fans, etc.).

of course, i'm fairly confident in one thing: today's headline helped the toronto raptors not at all. was it a pressure tactic? if vince is being sincere when bellowing his opinion that the team hasn't done its due diligence in "finding a suitable trading partner" (which, by the way, is not their responsibility at all), does he really believe that this sort of controversy would accelerate the process? i mean, i'm not siding against vince, i'm just asking: is he really that hopeless? in my experience, professional sports simply doesn't work like that. he's got to know that.

he- has- *got*- to- know- that. (?)

moreover, given rob babcock's personality traits, i'd think that most players in similar situations would take the polar opposite approach to engineering their own trades- they'd keep it behind the scenes, keep it absolutely civil, and wouldn't push the team into quicksand. again, vince's seems to have been a knee-jerk reaction-- borne out of juvenile anxiety-- that most onlookers would accurately identify as bringing little to no reward at all. 

you're not helping your own cause, vince, i assure you. but what's done is done; it's up to you to put up with it for the next 3/ 6/ 9/ 12 months.

where is the foresight?

peace


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THA DOCTA</b>!
> How about this:
> 
> Indiana trades:
> ...


the Raptors get raped in this deal Indys first pick will suck, Tinsley is inconsistent, and bender has shown absolutley nothing that impresses me. Why would the raptors want bender when they were the team that traded him to Indy on draft day. The Raptors did not see much in him or they wouldn't have traded him for AD. vince is better than all those players combined. I ca't see Vince going to Indy unless Artest is coming to Toronto which does not seem likely.


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## THA DOCTA (Feb 17, 2003)

> You can't expect any player to put forth 100% forth every game when his team is that bad...


What that is the stupidest thing you can possibly say. That is what they get paid for.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

No it's not... Even players take days off... Hell, do you give your 100% every day at your job? I highly highly doubt you put your full effort every night. Every player takes off some nights where they don't play very hard. Not playoff basketball but over an 82 game season players take games off. How can you expect T-Mac to put forth 100% when his teamates aren't? How do you expect T-Mac to put forth 100% when the front office isn't putting 100% of their effort into giving him a good team to play with. To say that any player on a team like that should go out and leave it all on the court every night is ridiculous and asking way too much.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> i'm fairly confident in one thing: today's headline helped the toronto raptors not at all. was it a pressure tactic? if vince is being sincere when bellowing his opinion that the team hasn't done its due diligence in "finding a suitable trading partner" (which, by the way, is not their responsibility at all), does he really believe that this sort of controversy would accelerate the process? i mean, i'm not siding against vince, i'm just asking: is he really that hopeless? in my experience, professional sports simply doesn't work like that. he's got to know that.
> 
> he- has- *got*- to- know- that. (?)
> ...


Man, you write here like I wrote essays for U of T. Good on ya.

I can't believe what VC does not know. He seemingly does not understand the CBA or the restrictions of the salary cap given his ignorant comments for Nash, Magloire and others.

I hoped Babcock would pull a Kiki, but instead he tried to build on the fly. I don't know. The future seems pretty bleak right now. Would it seem as bleak if a trade was made for basketball reasons before the draft? Babs is certainly in a difficult position now. But quite honestly, Vince should have been dealt well before this point to create a team in his own vision rather than placate management and Vince fans/ticket holders. And if he actually wanted to keep VC, then I question his sense. Babs should have seen this coming like many of us did, myself included.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>HeinzGuderian</b>!
> A bad franchise has ruined yet another potentially great player :no:


Actually if you were more familiar with the events of the Raptors construction and downfall, you would know that Vince influenced the rise and its massive fall. While he has no leverage now to leave, he had much leverage before he signed his deal. He forced this team into a lot of bad deals which is why he has no help today.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> If Toronto got Mobley, Garrity, and 2 first round draft picks - that is more than fodder, imho.
> ...


Those picks are now meaningless. With Vince they would be mid to late picks. I'm sorry, the GM is in charge of revenue as much as Wins. Air Canada sells a lot of tix, I don't think Mobley and Garrity cut it. They would actually need name prospects out of this year's and last years draft, not future picks.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> Those picks are now meaningless. With Vince they would be mid to late picks. I'm sorry, the GM is in charge of revenue as much as Wins. <b>Air Canada sells a lot of tix, I don't think Mobley and Garrity cut it. They would actually need name prospects out of this year's and last years draft, </b>not future picks........
> ...


But I thought you said that you wanted young talent to build around Bosh? 2 first round picks from Orlando should be decent & Cat is a heady #2 guard and Garrity shoots lights out and is not injured like last year. Add one more Orlando big man or a PG of worth to the trade & the Raptor GM might consider doing it.

How does A player force his GM to make a lot of bad deals? No GM would be worth hiring IF he allowed a player to twist his arm into making "a lot of bad deals".


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## SHOX (Jul 28, 2004)

Carter wont get traded ..... Everyone knows that ....


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Carter is not going anywhere unless its for Iverson.

Fact is, if Toronto deals him in a regular deal for role players and draft picks, the Raptors are going to lose a boat load of money. BOAT LOAD. 

Carter fills Air Canada, sells a lot of jerseys and gives the Raptors an identity. He is also very popular among casual basketball fans. If he is gone, even if the team wins 40-45 games, they are going to lose a lot of interest and a lot of money.

Iverson sells tickets too, and is very popular himself, maybe a deal could be worked out.


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

The problem with getting Iverson is the Raptors like to pick up players with good clean lifestyles and i doubt that Iverson can change himself enough to be that type of guy. He will definitely sell you some tickets. I think the better player to trade for would be paul pierce for Toronto as he is very popular here and he also doesn't carry the baggage that AI carries.


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## THA DOCTA (Feb 17, 2003)

> The problem with getting Iverson is the Raptors like to pick up players with good clean lifestyles


Ok you obviuosly don't know what you're talking about. First off what makes you an expert on how the Raptors front office decides who their players are going to be? Secondly, the Raptors have Mo Pete on their roster, he is currently involved in a mess of a woman accusing him that he gave her herpes, and their 1st round draft pick Rafael Araujo has had a very public past of advant steriod usage. Thank you.

*From now on I am to be known as the CORRECTOR OF ALL THAT IS STUPID*



There's no need to call another poster's opinion "stupid." If you don't agree with one's opinion, there are many different ways to deal with it properly. - Koko


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THA DOCTA</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok you obviuosly don't know what you're talking about. First off what makes you an expert on how the Raptors front office decides who their players are going to be? Secondly, the Raptors have Mo Pete on their roster, he is currently involved in a mess of a woman accusing him that he gave her herpes, and their 1st round draft pick Rafael Araujo has had a very public past of advant steriod usage. Please do not open your mouth if the information and/or your opinion is false and/or stupid. Thank you.
> ...


So the guy cant be wrong? So the guy cant speak when he wants to? Well, you know what, you will find a tough timne in your life because all you speak and does has to be accurated right?

Dont act like you are some God or anything, you are just an another *** to me here.

PM me if necessary!


Masked Cursing - Koko


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## THA DOCTA (Feb 17, 2003)

Woah woah calm down now. I just hate to see people bashing players with false or wrong information just because they think a player has a "unclean lifestyle". AI has shown this past summer that he has not only matured as a basketball player but also as a person, so leave the guy alone. And John, my screen name on this site is THA DOCTA, not God and I am not trying to be God. I am only here to cure this site of the ills that are hurting it, and one of those ills happen to be bad info. Ever hear of the saying: "Think before you speak". If not I got one for you here: "Don't post wrong info, because it makes you look stupid".


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THA DOCTA</b>!
> Woah woah calm down now. I just hate to see people bashing players with false or wrong information just because they think a player has a "unclean lifestyle". AI has shown this past summer that he has not only matured as a basketball player but also as a person, so leave the guy alone. And John, my screen name on this site is THA DOCTA, not God and I am not trying to be God. I am only here to cure this site of the ills that are hurting it, and one of those ills happen to be bad info. Ever hear of the saying: "Think before you speak". If not I got one for you here: "Don't post wrong info, because it makes you look stupid".


oh LMAO man, if you are the measure stick for judging right and wrong, would I spend my time with you here?

So are you into Medical degree or something? LOL at telling people his screename is THA DOCTA. It was great that he didnt spell properly or else I would just shake my head whenever I see this screename!


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## THA DOCTA (Feb 17, 2003)

Oh man you got me there...I'm totally speechless. :no: Yea you can say I got a medical degree if that pertains to having accurate information about a subject. And I already been shaking my head whenever I saw your screenname.



**Totally uncalled for* Beez*

All you have to pay is 10 dollars to be a supporting member. It doesnt take any skill.


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

ummmm, I wonder how many times AI has been portrayed as "maturing" over the past few seasons.
Dude is the same.

:|


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^The same AI that came late to the first game of the olympic pretourney


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Man Carter is such a loser if all this is true. Unbelievable.

Now they are saying they won't accept a trade to a Western Conference team? But he wants to be traded because Toronto is not a contender and he can't wait?
Doh, in the East noboby outside of Detroit, Indiana and maybe Miami can be viewed as a contender and nobody else looks like they could contend in 5yrs down the road either.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You know I actually begin to wonder if Vince actually knows what he wants. The socalled New York team he wants to join is barely a 500 team and everyone knows the western conference is more competetive than the East. If I were the raps I wouldnt trade Vince until they get the right deal, he will only hurt himself if he doesnt play well, as his value keeps free falling. I am one of his biggest fans but at times I wonder if this man thinks before he acts. I'll support him wherever he goes but geez my hopes of a Vince-Bosh tandem ruling the east has been lost now


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> But I thought you said that you wanted young talent to build around Bosh? 2 first round picks from Orlando should be decent & Cat is a heady #2 guard and Garrity shoots lights out and is not injured like last year. Add one more Orlando big man or a PG of worth to the trade & the Raptor GM might consider doing it.


I want young talent to watch grow this year if there are no Vince dunks to watch as a GM. You can watch Ben Gordon and Luol Deng, you can't watch Orlando's 2005 and 2006 picks. Cat will be out of the picture by the time our guys develop, thus I would rather take the value he holds and transfer that to prospects/picks and have fodder instead, like an ERob.



> How does A player force his GM to make a lot of bad deals? No GM would be worth hiring IF he allowed a player to twist his arm into making "a lot of bad deals".


This is what I meant about your lack of familiarity with what was happening. VC was up for renewal the summer after just missing out on the ECF to Iverson. JYD, AW and AD were all free agents and were the core of the team that Vince wanted to play with. Unfortunately, to keep Vince (which had to be done) GM Grunwald had to overpay to keep each of them. To get AD done he had to promise to go and get a C so AD could move to PF. Enter Hakeem the Nightmare Olajuwon at 5+ million for 3 years. 

JYD- Overpaid
AW- Bad knees and ankles, less overpaid.
AD- only signed for the $, rather be with his family than win.
Dream- Knees were DONE. Cash grab.

Cap is messed for years. Vince is stuck with a below average cast. While Grunwald made these moves, they were all done to keep the Franchise, Vincent Lamar Carter. Without them, he would not have signed his extension. Had he perhaps kept his nose out of things, and the Raps been less afraid of losing him, they might have made better personnel decisions.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> This is what I meant about your lack of familiarity with what was happening. VC was up for renewal the summer after just missing out on the ECF to Iverson. JYD, AW and AD were all free agents and were the core of the team that Vince wanted to play with. Unfortunately, to keep Vince (which had to be done) GM Grunwald had to overpay to keep each of them. To get AD done he had to promise to go and get a C so AD could move to PF. Enter Hakeem the Nightmare Olajuwon at 5+ million for 3 years.
> 
> ...


The point is none player can push a *good* GM to make bad deals, with a good GM the Raptors could sign those gus for less money those signings are G. Grunwald Faults not Vince Fault


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

But seriously though who honestly thinks this team with Vince Carter was ever going to challenge for a championship. I can understand Vince's frustration, the raptors are arguably the most unstable organization in the last few years. 3 coaches in 3 years isnt something to be proud of. Trading Vince might get them those players that will be able to compete. Right now even with Vince they are among the bottom feeders in the east.


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## cornerback (Aug 15, 2004)

haha. Yeah he actually thought we were getting Nash and Magloire. Jesus man.

no point analyzing Vince. He is a seriously weird dude. If they put the worlds greatest psychoanalysts and doctors and computers and drugs all together and analyzed Vince for the next 10 years, all they would find out is that he is weird.

Vince is a weird, weird guy.

(and whats with the slap in the face to his teammates and coach. The guy could have just said he wanted a fresh start, or to play closer to home. Completely uncalled for, Tmac type move)


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## cornerback (Aug 15, 2004)

I hope he starts the season for us. Just to see him get booed, and read all the "Go cry to your mamma" signs

(not because I dislike him. I would just find it entertaining.)


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THA DOCTA</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok you obviuosly don't know what you're talking about. First off what makes you an expert on how the Raptors front office decides who their players are going to be? Secondly, the Raptors have Mo Pete on their roster, he is currently involved in a mess of a woman accusing him that he gave her herpes, and their 1st round draft pick Rafael Araujo has had a very public past of advant steriod usage. Please do not open your mouth if the information and/or your opinion is false and/or stupid. Thank you.
> ...


You need to calm yourself, the raptors do take into consideration peoples criminal records because since you don't know muchabout the Raps they are owned by the Teachers pension and they do look at morals when they acquire players. It is not the most important thing but it is an issue. Also i have never heard about Mo pete giving someone Herpes, also Araujo does not have a criminal record. Also i love AI and would like nothing better than to see him in Toronto but i doubt the management in Toronto would approve. The problem with Toronto is everything has to run through Richard Peddie and not the GM


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kg_mvp03-04</b>!
> 
> 
> You need to calm yourself, the raptors do take into consideration peoples criminal records because since you don't know muchabout the Raps they are owned by the Teachers pension and they do look at morals when they acquire players. It is not the most important thing but it is an issue. Also i have never heard about Mo pete giving someone Herpes, also Araujo does not have a criminal record. Also i love AI and would like nothing better than to see him in Toronto but i doubt the management in Toronto would approve. The problem with Toronto is everything has to run through Richard Peddie and not the GM


shut down.

the raptors are most probably the cleanest team in the nba when it comes to their players.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> But seriously though who honestly thinks this team with Vince Carter was ever going to challenge for a championship. I can understand Vince's frustration, the raptors are arguably the most unstable organization in the last few years. 3 coaches in 3 years isnt something to be proud of. Trading Vince might get them those players that will be able to compete. Right now even with Vince they are among the bottom feeders in the east.


Why the HELL do you think so many raptor fans on this board want Vince gone for.. because with him, like you said, we are nothing more than bottom feeders on the East! 

And whoever said we should only trade him for Iverson or someone that could be popular like that.. NO. You'd be suprised in how many people wanted Vince gone in the toronto area, and now that he has gone public with it, even more people are on his ***. But I'd rather watch a young trio of Gordon-Deng-Bosh (or something to that matter, like blowinuptheraps said) grow then watch us continue to suck if we trade Vince for a guy that is not going to change anything (iverson, allen, ect.)


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

How about this:

Portland trades: Nedzad Sinanovic ( ppg, rpg, apg in minutes) 
PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes) 
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.6 minutes) 
Portland receives: PF Jerome Moiso (2.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.9 minutes) 
SF Lamond Murray (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.7 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
PG Roger Mason (3.7 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 12.7 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +6.2 ppg, +1.7 rpg, and -0.4 apg. 

New Jersey trades: C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes) 
PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes) 
New Jersey receives: PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39 games) 
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 85 games) 
PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 56 games) 
Change in team outlook: +14.2 ppg, +4.2 rpg, and +1.4 apg. 

Toronto trades: PF Jerome Moiso (2.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.9 minutes) 
SF Lamond Murray (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.7 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.9 minutes) 
PG Roger Mason (3.7 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 12.7 minutes) 
Toronto receives: Nedzad Sinanovic ( ppg, rpg, apg in games) 
C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 12 games) 
PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 67 games) 
Change in team outlook: -20.4 ppg, -5.9 rpg, and -1.0 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

BFreak.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

How about no.

Add me to your club btw....


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Which one? And may I ask why its a bad trade?

BFreak.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Freak</b>!
> Which one? And may I ask why its a bad trade?
> 
> BFreak.


cause we're looking for young talent.

example:

VC

for

Damon (expiring)
Outlaw
Monya
Ha Seung-Jin


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

I'd do that in a sec.  If you want I could try and get one to work like that.

BFreak.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> Carter is not going anywhere unless its for Iverson.
> 
> Fact is, if Toronto deals him in a regular deal for role players and draft picks, the Raptors are going to lose a boat load of money. BOAT LOAD.
> ...


Right, eh. Were all a bunch of dumb nucks who smack each over the head with hockey sticks and then go drink beers in our igloos.

FU - you know nothing about this market. Toronto wants a winning product. It has been proven in all sports here.


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> Right, eh. Were all a bunch of dumb nucks who smack each over the head with hockey sticks and then go drink beers in our igloos.
> ...


I agree with junior, The RAPTORS would never ever lose money unless something dramatic goes down and they lose all there corporate support. Courtside seats are $665, and they almost all owned by corporations so i doubt they will lose money. If they did start to lose money, that is when they will actually really care about the team, same as the Maple Leafs, the owners don't care cause they make boatloads of money and have a pretty big waiting list for seasons tickets.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^See thats why at times I wonder, what indeed is the goal of all this owners and management, make money or win. Believe me if after Vince is traded and the raps dont win, are you sure this same loyal fans will care about going to games


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Right now even with Vince they are among the bottom feeders in the east.


how can you say this when we have yet to play a game this year? we can't be worse then last year.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> how can you say this when we have yet to play a game this year? we can't be worse then last year.


Why not? Unhappy superstar, a new raw center, new coach, new systems. That's all the ingredients necessary for a likely "worse than last year" season. Bosh getting better doesn't override all these other things.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> how can you say this when we have yet to play a game this year? we can't be worse then last year.


Yes, you definitely can. Vince was healthy last season and you still didn't make the playoffs. He doesn't even want to be in Toronto, you know he's not going to play through any pain this season.


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## martin bolima (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Miami arent legit locks to win the championship with Wade and Shaq, but Vince and Shaq does sound enticing


Enticing? Yes, it sounds very enticing...

But it ain't gonna work...


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

To make this work with NY, you have to take Houston. Then Jamal can play some point and some 2, and Vince can play 2 and a little 3.

Obviously Vince is a far better asset than Houston.
How to balance it?

Give Toronto some futures, and take some liabilities.

Vince Carter
Lamond Murray
Milt Palacio

for 

Allan Houston
Mike Sweetney
1st Round Draft Pick.

Toronto

Alston - Williams
Houston - Peterson
Rose - Peterson
Donyell - Sweetney
Bosh - Moiso - Woods

Donyell can play some 3. He played 3 a lot with Malone in Utah.

Sweetney is such a bull that he and Bosh can combine to provide the 4&5 spots, with Mike providing the power and Bosh the length.

Next year when Donyell goes, Sweet gets full starter's minutes.

The year after, both Rose & Houston come off the books, and the Raps get whoever they want in FA.

New York gets the dream backcourt.

Starbury / JC
Vince / JC
Tim Thomas / Vince
Kurt Thomas /JYD
Nazr Mo & Vin Baker


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

There is no trade available with Orlando. All the players who can be used to match caps with Vince are restricted!

Miami is likely impossible, too. Eddie Jones would match caps, but we have the Houston situation w/o available futures. Udonis Haslem? 2 first round picks? Dwyane Wade is untouchable.

Vince is such a selfish prima donna, he doesn't even take the effort to look into realities. Yeah, right, the Raps were gonna bring in Nash & Magloire. Even if they had unlimited money, the rules would not have permitted it!


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> To make this work with NY, you have to take Houston. Then Jamal can play some point and some 2, and Vince can play 2 and a little 3.
> 
> Obviously Vince is a far better asset than Houston.
> ...


You truly are mad, viking. Houston? Come on! A first? they're all gone. New York can go blank themselves unless they flip Marbury to a third team and we get what we want.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Yes, botr, I am Mad! 

I didn't say I liked the trade...

I really do like Sweetney. I'm sure he will be a star if he stays healthy. 

I really think we need to get rid of Vince. As much as I admire his abilities, he has gone way beyond being a distraction. 

How do we expect him to get along with the rest of the organization, when he has written them off. 

How can the Raptor's possibly win anything when their best player doesn't believe they can?

Vince has become a cancer, and it is time to cut it out.

It will be an addition by subtraction. 

I would love to get a legit big, but who would trade one?


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## GreenDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Ohhhhh I remember the Vince in North Carolina Days :drool:


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