# RBK's Las Vegas Big Time Tourney Thread



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Reebok Big Time Event
Watch Games 

Featuring: OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, Bill Walker, Eric Gordon, Derick Rose, and more!!!​


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Game has been moved to 10 minutes from now.. 

D1 Greyhounds
Mayo and Walker

So Cal All Stars
# Name Class Pos HT WT
2 Kamyron Brown 07 G 6-2 180
3 Brandon Jennings 08 PG 6-1 185
20 Daniel Hackett 07 G/F 6-6 210
23 Darrington Hobson 07 WF 6-7 190
24 Kyle Austin 07 F 6-7 215
30 Renardo Sidney 09 F 6-9 210
31 Taylor King 07 WF 6-7 215
33 Mychel Thompson 06 F 6-6 210
34 Malik Story 08 G/F 6-5 210
42 Kevin Love 07 F 6-10 210
50 Alex Jacobson 07 C 7-1 245

The Rose/Gordon tandem beat Dar Tucker, Alex Legion, and Anthony Crater 78-71..

Windows Media Link (if you prefer that): mfile.akamai.com/9192/live/reflector:39879.asx


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I split our other game watching into its own thread


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I'm looking forward to seeing how Jennings plays. I wasn't too impressed with his game against Meanstreet. I know he doesn't have to score on this team but he didn't know down a single shot in what I saw last game.


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

D1 getting busted early but Walker didnt start.. he's not fully healthy but could play


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

crap T on sidney. officials appear to be calling things tight to keep thing under control.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

No Bill Walker and limited OJ Mayo = Blowout City.

Kevin Love is simply phenominal. The guy gets in perfect postion on every shot uses his body so well that he grabs everything around the basket. His outlet passes are as smooth as Joe Montana's passes were back in the 80's. 8pts, 7rbs at the half.

Jennings has been much more impressive this game. He attacks the basket and does a very nice job drawing big men then passing to his open teammates. Showed a nice jumper too.

I like these quick halftimes.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Good game going on now.

Kevin Love, Jennings, Mayo, King, Sidney are all out on the floor. The teams aren't fair on paper.

Brandon Jennings is phenomenal. He's going to be a great pro.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

:laugh: Love with the flex after the and1


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Turned this off a while ago and now it's a blowout when I turn back.. haha


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

One player that I've been really impressed with is Daniel Hackett (USC). According to what they've said, he's trying to finish school by December so he can play this year for Floyd. He's listed as a SF, but he brings the ball up a lot for SoCal and is supposedly going to play some PG for the Trojans.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I, like the fans, am heading for the exits...... Fun to watch the SoCal guys, but Mayo was disappointing.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Miller, like the commentators mentioned, is looking horrible. He has some nice moves, but so many of his layups are thrown up and bounce off the backboard. He's out of control and doesn't look for his teammates.


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

*Big day at the Big Time
July 24, 2006
Jerry Meyer
Rivals.com Basketball Recruiting*










On a must see day at the Reebok Big Time, O.J. Mayo had one outstanding game and squeaked out a win over the Mean Street Express on a controversial foul call. But it was the Mean Street Express guard combo of Eric Gordon and Derrick Rose who were the standout players of the day with two terrific performances.

After a lay up by Gordon with eight seconds left in the game to put Mean Street Express up by three, Mayo raced down the court and drained a three-pointer with 2.9 seconds left as the referee made a mystery foul call. Mayo canned the free throw to gain the win and finish off a 26 point, 4 rebound, 6 assist and zero turnover performance.

Against the 2-3 zone of the Mean Street Express, Mayo sank 7 of 8 three-pointers and went 9 of 16 from the field.

Rose and Gordon were also impressive as the Mean Street Express controlled the game until the very end. Relying heavily on his right to left crossover, Rose spent much of the first half driving by Mayo on the dribble and either scoring, drawing fouls or finding shooters.

Mayo wisely backed off of Rose during the latter part of the second half, exposing Rose's questionable outside jumper. Rose did go 0 for 5 from behind the stripe, but on the game, he put up a triple/double of 21 points, 14 rebounds and 12 assists to 4 turnovers.

As good as Mayo and Rose were in this contest, Gordon was every bit as good with his efficient and also explosive play. Unstoppable in the open court, Gordon scored 28 points on 10 of 15 shooting, including 2 of 4 from the arc. He also had 8 rebounds and 2 assists to 2 turnovers.



> Gordon and Rose, however, were on their A game in their second game against the Michigan Hurricanes. Gordon torched the nets from everywhere on the court for 33 points on 8 of 16 shooting, including 5 of 8 from the arc and 12 of 12 from the free-throw line. He also had 6 rebounds.
> 
> Simply unguardable, Gordon is strikingly similar to lottery pick Randy Foye, yet with even more explosiveness than Foye.
> 
> ...


[More in URL]


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I tried to watch this,but my connection would just die every five minutes or so.I did see Taylor King hit a shot from what looked like 30 feet.I wish he was coming to Durham this year based on the great things I've heard about him.


----------



## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

Brandon Jennings > OJ Mayo?

Does anyone else think that Jennings is going to be better than Mayo?


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Ghost said:


> Brandon Jennings > OJ Mayo?
> 
> Does anyone else think that Jennings is going to be better than Mayo?


I love Jennings game, and I have for a while now. He isn't the scorer that Mayo is yet in my opinion. But as a pure point, he takes the cake. Jennings has better vision and better ball control. Mayo has the shot, the poise and the physical traits over Jennings.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I still find it humorous that Mayo is even considered a PG. Sure, he can make a nice pass every now and then, but so can Kevin Love. And no, Jennings isn't better than Mayo.


----------



## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

Well I'll put it this way then, who would you rather have on your team, Mayo or Jenings?


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Honestly I would be nervous about it if Mayo went to Duke.It looks like you need a FedEx envelope full of benjamins to get him honestly.


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

TM said:


> I still find it humorous that Mayo is even considered a PG. Sure, he can make a nice pass every now and then, but so can Kevin Love. And no, Jennings isn't better than Mayo.


is Mayo a lock for that top spot in 08 or is it debatable?. personally i would go for a bigman at the top unless you have a lebron type player there(or someone close to that).


----------



## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

rainman said:


> is Mayo a lock for that top spot in 08 or is it debatable?. personally i would go for a bigman at the top unless you have a lebron type player there(or someone close to that).



He has so much hype around him that unless a Top player from 07 stays in college, IT's reall just a matter of time until he is a Top 3 pick, only thing that is stoping him is time and if he makes a huge mistake like robing a Bank or something.


----------



## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Jennings is so smooth and graceful with the ball. He can get around anyone in the nation and then throw a no look strike to a cutter.

Mayo is the better player, but Jennings is the type of PG who can take over a game by simply creating for the 4 other players on his team.


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Meanstreets wins 74-65
Rose: 32 Min, 15 pts (6/9, 1/2, 2/2), 5 boards, 12 assists, 2 TO, 3 steals
Gordon: 31 Min, 33 pts (10/17, 5/8, 8/8), 6 boards, 3 assist, 2 TO, 1 steal

Meanstreets wins this morning 71-56
Rose: 32 min, 8 pts (1/5, 0/2, 6/6), 1 board, 11 assists, 0 TO, 2 steals
Gordon: 32 min, 30 pts (8/16, 5/9, 9/10), 6 boards, 2 assists, 0 TO, 1 block, 1 steal


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Gordon and Rose struggle but win 83-72

Rose: 31 min, 22 pts (8/11, 1/2, 5/7), 5 boards, 4 assists, 7 turnovers, 1 block, 2 steals
Gordon: 32 min, 26 pts (7/15, 3/6, 9/10), 5 boards, 3 assists, 2 turnovers, 3 steals

Championship Link Bracket

Long Island Lightning plays MSE next tommorow morning!


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Don't judge Mayo by this one game. In the first two contests, he was so far ahead of anybody else in Vegas that he really shouldn't even be ranked on the same list as the other players in his class. Number one just isn't high enough. Not a point guard? This guy is going to be an All-Star from the day he steps foot onto an NBA Court...

That said, Eric Gordon put up 30 in each of the games we saw, and is certainly a combo guard prospect down the road. One of the top 3 college prospects in the class, an instant 20 ppg scorer in the Big Ten, and probably one or two and done. Just scary good, folks. 

Greg Monroe...everybody will be talking about him at this time next year. I was able to take in Jennings, Samuels, Evans, Roe, and Monroe for the '08 guys this past weekend. Monroe gets my nod as the top 08 prospect in that group...

I think the scouting reports on Julian Vaughn are a bit off. He's every bit of 6'10, has a prototype NBA frame, and is remarkably skilled for a big man. Soft hands, soft touch, and much more aggressive than Michael Beasley. He plays in the NBA someday, IMO.


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Thanks for the info JW.. What are your thoughts on Derrick Rose too?


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Not a point guard? This guy is going to be an All-Star from the day he steps foot onto an NBA Court...


Mayo isn't a Point Guard, he has handles like a point guard but he plays like Steve Francis. He will be an NBA all-star I will agree with you there but not at the Point Guard position. He will play Point Guard, but he isn't a Point Guard. Brandon Jennings, Derrick Rose, and Anthony Crater are all better Point Guards although Mayo is the better player.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I don't know how to say this without coming off as arrogant and confrontational to all the doubters...but OJ Mayo is so damn good that he will probably deserve to play in the All-Star game his rookie season. His name has been out there for so long that people find faults to his game, but those people just don't get it (let's start with scout.com's Jeff Goodman). The idea that he was outplayed by Derrick Rose on Sunday is beyond laughable. 

I'm more confident that he will be a superstar in the NBA than I am about Greg Oden, and these comments about him not being a true point guard and playing like Steve Francis are still going to be here in two years...


----------



## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

bball2223 said:


> Mayo isn't a Point Guard, he has handles like a point guard but he plays like Steve Francis. He will be an NBA all-star I will agree with you there but not at the Point Guard position. He will play Point Guard, but he isn't a Point Guard. Brandon Jennings, Derrick Rose, and Anthony Crater are all better Point Guards although Mayo is the better player.


hes already a better decision maker on the court at 18 then francis is at 29..


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I don't know how to say this without coming off as arrogant and confrontational to all the doubters...but OJ Mayo is so damn good that he will probably deserve to play in the All-Star game his rookie season. His name has been out there for so long that people find faults to his game, but those people just don't get it (let's start with scout.com's Jeff Goodman). The idea that he was outplayed by Derrick Rose on Sunday is beyond laughable.
> 
> I'm more confident that he will be a superstar in the NBA than I am about Greg Oden, and these comments about him not being a true point guard and playing like Steve Francis are still going to be here in two years...


Arrogant and confrontational? You're just voicing your opinion, no need to defend it.

If LeBron James couldn't make the All-Star team as a rook, I doubt OJ can. Deserve? Possibly, I believe LeBron deserved it but NBA coaches are fickle, most won't vote for a rookie. His only chance would be the fans vote. His chances are slim. Sure, he'll have an extra year in college. Sure, he'll be 21 when he comes out.

OJ Mayo can be a 2 guard in the NBA. He's just about big enough. He needs to make sure he's not classified as a tweener and make the decision towards a position though. He doesn't have the point guard skills of others in HS, say Jennings or Rose, he's more of a scorer. He doesn't have Steve Francis' athleticism either. He's more of a Dwyane Wade type guard, not through their games being similar, but his role. He can be the facilitator, but is best used as a scorer. This isn't a comparison in style though, they're different.


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

MSE 74-65
Rose: 32 min, 19 pts (6/12, 3/7, 4/4), 3 boards, 4 assists, 6 turnovers
Gordon: 32 min, 27 pts (8/20, 2/8, 9/9), 8 boards, 5 assists, 2 turnovers, 1 block, 2 steals

Meanstreets vs Spiece Indy Heat in one of the Semis tonight.. 

Other will be..

So Cal All Stars vs Sq. Richmond Brooks/Houston Jr. Hardballers winner.. 

Winner of MS/Spiece will play the winner of 2nd game in the Championship at 8:20 CT tonight!


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Have you seen Mayo in person? 

You can't judge him on the one bad game he had on cstv over the internet feed. The two previous games were perhaps the most impressive performances I have ever viewed from a high school prospect, and I have been following this stuff since the late 90's. He doesn't play like Steve Francis. He isn't selfish, not in the least bit. He is a brilliant, brilliant passer. He might not be the best decision maker or have a full grasp of how to control tempo, but he is absolutely, 100% a point guard. Playing him off the ball would be an absolute waste of talent. This is the one player out there that needs the ball in his hands at all times. This is a guy that is so talented and so far above anybody he's going up against that we really won't know how amazing he can be until he jumps to the league. His upside? There is no limit...

As far as Brandon Jennings goes...Jennings is just as out of control and fixated on making the spectacular play...their court vision is very similar, but Mayo gets things done at a faster pace. 

And your point about tweeners is a bit dated. Combo guard isn't a dirty word anymore. Randy Foye just got drafted at #6. It's why Eric Gordon is likely a one and done prospect. 




Lachlanwood32 said:


> Arrogant and confrontational? You're just voicing your opinion, no need to defend it.
> 
> If LeBron James couldn't make the All-Star team as a rook, I doubt OJ can. Deserve? Possibly, I believe LeBron deserved it but NBA coaches are fickle, most won't vote for a rookie. His only chance would be the fans vote. His chances are slim. Sure, he'll have an extra year in college. Sure, he'll be 21 when he comes out.
> 
> OJ Mayo can be a 2 guard in the NBA. He's just about big enough. He needs to make sure he's not classified as a tweener and make the decision towards a position though. He doesn't have the point guard skills of others in HS, say Jennings or Rose, he's more of a scorer. He doesn't have Steve Francis' athleticism either. He's more of a Dwyane Wade type guard, not through their games being similar, but his role. He can be the facilitator, but is best used as a scorer. This isn't a comparison in style though, they're different.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

B34C asked about Rose...

He's quite the prospect, but I'd lean more on the side of prospect than immediate impact superstar at the moment. He's an absolute freak athlete, moves the ball well on the perimeter, plays good D, and has a solid overall feel for the game. He really can't shoot, which is the biggest problem. He's also still learning how to take over games with his scoring. As he learns how to create space, finish, and better utilize that freakish athleticism...he's going to be amazing.


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I don't know how to say this without coming off as arrogant and confrontational to all the doubters...but OJ Mayo is so damn good that he will probably deserve to play in the All-Star game his rookie season. His name has been out there for so long that people find faults to his game, but those people just don't get it (let's start with scout.com's Jeff Goodman). The idea that he was outplayed by Derrick Rose on Sunday is beyond laughable.
> 
> I'm more confident that he will be a superstar in the NBA than I am about Greg Oden, and these comments about him not being a true point guard and playing like Steve Francis are still going to be here in two years...



i cant agree with the comment about him having more star potential than oden, i guess from a fan/media standpoint he is already a star and that will only carry over to the nba, however i think you have to define what a star really is and greg oden has the ability to actually alter the outcome of games with his defense and shot blocking.


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Thanks JW.. just curious what your thoughts were 

MSE rally back from 6 at halftime and win like 74-57.. [Box]
Rose: 32 min, 22 pts (6/15, 3/7, 7/9), 7 boards, 8 assists, 3 turnovers, 3 steals
Gordon: 32 min, 25 pts (7/14, 2/6, 9/11), 6 boards, 5 fouls, 0 assists, 6 turnovers, 1 block

Will play for the Championship tonight against probably Kevin Love (just an assumption) and So Cal All Stars


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Jonathan Watters said:


> The idea that he was outplayed by Derrick Rose on Sunday is beyond laughable.


http://www.nbadraft.net/2006lasvegas002.asp
Click that link Jonathan Watters and read the blurb about Mayo and Rose. Its just a hunch but I think the writers and evaluators at nbadraft.net know more about this than you do. Again just a hunch.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

nbadraft is a joke

JW knows what he's talking about


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Brian34Cook said:


> Will play for the Championship tonight against probably Kevin Love (just an assumption) and So Cal All Stars


Do you know if that will be on live on the CSTV feed?


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

TM said:


> Do you know if that will be on live on the CSTV feed?


Nope but it will be MSE for SCAS in like 10 min.. Sucks that it isnt available whereas the opening was? This has ESPN potential.. oh well!


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

bball2223 said:


> http://www.nbadraft.net/2006lasvegas002.asp
> Click that link Jonathan Watters and read the blurb about Mayo and Rose. Its just a hunch but I think the writers and evaluators at nbadraft.net know more about this than you do. Again just a hunch.


 :biggrin:


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

who won?


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

TM said:


> nbadraft is a joke
> 
> JW knows what he's talking about


i tend to put a little more stock in draftexpress but i wouldnt call nbadraft a joke.


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

SoCal wins 69-67. EJ with around 35. 

Proud of those two guys on MSE.. SoCal hasnt lost for like a couple years since Love has been on the team.. dont have a lot of info!


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

http://www.reebokbigtime.com/06_pdf/Tournament_Leaders_06.pdf

3 New Tourney records were set!

Notably Eric Gordon as the historys all-time scoring leader for a tourney with 262 pts


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Have you seen Mayo in person?
> 
> You can't judge him on the one bad game he had on cstv over the internet feed. The two previous games were perhaps the most impressive performances I have ever viewed from a high school prospect, and I have been following this stuff since the late 90's. He doesn't play like Steve Francis. He isn't selfish, not in the least bit. He is a brilliant, brilliant passer. He might not be the best decision maker or have a full grasp of how to control tempo, but he is absolutely, 100% a point guard. Playing him off the ball would be an absolute waste of talent. This is the one player out there that needs the ball in his hands at all times. This is a guy that is so talented and so far above anybody he's going up against that we really won't know how amazing he can be until he jumps to the league. His upside? There is no limit...
> 
> ...



Why would I need to see Mayo in person? I'm not going to pick up anything more than watching tapes on him. If I had judged Mayo off of one game, I wouldn't comment on the subject. I can't watch Mayo in person.

I'm not judging him off of one game. I think he's a fabulous prospect who deserves all the praise. But an All-Star in his first year out? I wouldn't go that far. There's no point in putting heavier expectations on this kids shoulders.

If you read my post, which I assume you did seeing as you're responding, then you would have picked up that I too don't believe he plays like Francis.

I can't see how playing OJ at the 2 would be a huge travesty. Sure, he could play the 1 just as well, but we're talking about a kid that can score at will. LeBron arguably has better point guard skills, yet doesn't play the 1. OJ should end up at the 1 because he doesn't have the physical gifts of LeBron, but I don't see it as defined as you do obviously. His court vision and ability to create is first class though, but that can be utilized through any position with the offensive sets run nowadays. Notice I said he "could" play the 2 guard position, not that I _would_ play him there.

Mayo is a great scorer, that's why he constantly is regarded as not such a great point guard. Try to think of the last, great, scoring point guard who has his court vision. It's hard. It's also hard to grasp at a comparison for OJ.

I believe Jennings is underrated. His shot has great form, and good range, and his court vision is great. His passing skills are phenomenal, as is his ability to get anywhere on the court. He needs more strength though. He'll be a special point when he finishes HS.

Tweeners still find it hard, it's a mindset among NBA personnel. How many tweeners have you seen drafted high, and fall flat? I don't believe OJ is much of a tweener, he's good enough to play both positions, he's not between positions. By tweener I mean a betweener, it's real definition. Someone stuck out of position, not someone too small for a position. Eric Gordon is a 2 guard through and through. Jamal Crawford could be an example of a tweener.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

TM said:


> nbadraft is a joke
> 
> JW knows what he's talking about


While I'm not a big fan of nbadraft.net, I as well wouldn't consider them a joke. It would be ignorant to read one website and not the other. They both have their "homer" picks, and fall in love with players. You get a balanced perspective by reading both.

Of course, nothing beats making your own assumptions off of doing some research yourself.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Eric Gordon has Ben Gordon like potential as a scorer on the pro level.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

HKF said:


> Eric Gordon has Ben Gordon like potential as a scorer on the pro level.


Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing when writing my response earlier. He really seems to have that same nack for scoring.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

I'd just like to mention OJ Mayo averaged close to 28ppg and 5apg at NCH last season. As a comparison LeBron had 6apg his junior year, with arguably worse teammates.


----------



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

*Mean Street Express comes to an end
July 26, 2006
Jerry Meyer
Rivals.com Basketball Recruiting Recruiting Analyst*










Las Vegas, Nev.-After capturing the Peach Jam championship, the runaway backcourt of Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon carried the Mean Street Express to the finals of the Big Time, but the clutch play of Daniel Hackett made the difference for the SoCal All Stars, who once again overcame a halftime deficit to win the championship 69-63.

Gordon was sensational in the open court.
Eric Gordon started the game absolutely on fire going for 18 points in the first half on 7 of 12 shooting, including 4 of 5 from the arc. At one point in the first half, the Mean Street Express were up 21-8, but Hackett nailed a three-pointer against the 2-3 zone of the Mean Streets to begin SoCal's comeback run.

On the game, Hackett led SoCal in scoring with 21 points on 8 of 11 shooting with 3 of 4 from the arc. He also had 5 assists without a turnover.

Gordon was the game's leading scorer with 25 points, and he also led his team with 9 rebounds. A combination of fatigue and pesky defense by Brandon Jennings held him in check during the second half. Jennings also did a nice job offensively, dishing out 6 assists without committing a turnover.

Derrick Rose led the game with 10 assists to 4 turnovers and also scored 12 points. Along with his 6 rebounds, he had 3 blocks with two coming at the expense of Kevin Love when Rose came from behind to throw his power shots against the board.

Love did put up an impressive stat line with 20 points and 15 rebounds against the small Mean Streets' frontline.

Along with Tim Flowers, Antonio Topps played his spot up shooter role to perfection, hitting a clutch 4 of 6 three-pointers in the championship game.

[Recap of Final Four]


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> While I'm not a big fan of nbadraft.net, I as well wouldn't consider them a joke. It would be ignorant to read one website and not the other. They both have their "homer" picks, and fall in love with players. You get a balanced perspective by reading both.
> 
> Of course, nothing beats making your own assumptions off of doing some research yourself.


According to the research I got - When you have writers (A. Smith) writing in-depth stories on a "major" website ("major" I mean not some personal web page) about players he didn't see live and games he wasn't even at, I consider that pretty close to a joke.

Screw balance - I want someone who's actually sat on press row. I'll take Telep and J. Watters.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

TM said:


> According to the research I got - When you have writers (A. Smith) writing in-depth stories on a "major" website ("major" I mean not some personal web page) about players he didn't see live and games he wasn't even at, I consider that pretty close to a joke.
> 
> Screw balance - I want someone who's actually sat on press row. I'll take Telep and J. Watters.


Sitting on press row makes them no better than anyone else in my opinion. I'm not saying draftexpress is bad, they're my favorite mock site and their player analysis is pretty good as are their reports, but anyone can analyze a HS or college player nowadays. It's easy to get in contact with them and easy to gain footage and information. Technology is a true blessing.

You don't need to see the player live to analyze a game. Nobody has any trouble with European players. I think some posters on these boards are as good at player judgement as any of the major websites. I don't need someone who works for a website to analyze a player for me all the time, I have high regard for certain posters on here and their opinions. Being on press row doesn't influence me in that regard.

Now draftexpress reporting things exclusive to the press, that's a different story. That's giving us headlines, information normal posters wouldn't have.

Everyone is biased, posters, NBA draft websites, Chad Ford, that's why I find it necessary for me to look around at different opinions as well as my own. I understand if others don't share that view though.

I don't believe I've insulted nbadraft.net or draftexpress with my opinion, if so, I apologize before hand. While I'm not a fan of nbadraft.net, they do produce the odd decent article. Draftexpress is a quality site.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> I can't see how playing OJ at the 2 would be a huge travesty. Sure, he could play the 1 just as well, but we're talking about a kid that can score at will. LeBron arguably has better point guard skills, yet doesn't play the 1. OJ should end up at the 1 because he doesn't have the physical gifts of LeBron, but I don't see it as defined as you do obviously. His court vision and ability to create is first class though, but that can be utilized through any position with the offensive sets run nowadays. Notice I said he "could" play the 2 guard position, not that I _would_ play him there.


If he can score at will and create at will, then he ought to have the ball in his hands as often as possible. You waste OJ Mayo playing him at the 2. If you want to slow the game down and force feed him the ball, then he can play there, but again - that's not OJ's style. OJ was meant to play in an up tempo system, where he can push the pace at every opportunity. 



> Mayo is a great scorer, that's why he constantly is regarded as not such a great point guard. Try to think of the last, great, scoring point guard who has his court vision. It's hard. It's also hard to grasp at a comparison for OJ.


I don't think he is regarded as "not such a great point guard." At least not by the people in the business that I talk to. Your point is very true. It is what makes Mayo such a great prospect. 



> I believe Jennings is underrated. His shot has great form, and good range, and his court vision is great. His passing skills are phenomenal, as is his ability to get anywhere on the court. He needs more strength though. He'll be a special point when he finishes HS.


No doubt Jennings is going to be special. Especially if he ever grows out of that 13 year-old's body. But he's not a better point guard right now than OJ Mayo is. He's just as prone to poor decisions, and has much better coaching and team structure/passing options than Mayo does. 



> Tweeners still find it hard, it's a mindset among NBA personnel. How many tweeners have you seen drafted high, and fall flat? I don't believe OJ is much of a tweener, he's good enough to play both positions, he's not between positions. By tweener I mean a betweener, it's real definition. Someone stuck out of position, not someone too small for a position. Eric Gordon is a 2 guard through and through. Jamal Crawford could be an example of a tweener.


You are simply wrong here. Combo guards are finding success across the NBA. Dwayne Wade and Gilbert Arenas have changed things. Randy Foye went #6 in the draft this year. Brandon Roy played the point in the summer league. Eric Gordon has every tool necessary to play the point, and is going to be a damn fine combo guard in the NBA someday, mark my words.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> Sitting on press row makes them no better than anyone else in my opinion. It's easy to get in contact with them and easy to gain footage and information. Technology is a true blessing.


And also extremely misleading, especially when that footage is the 1) guy's 5 biggest AAU, 2) 1 biggest HS season game of the year, 3) highlight clips.



Lachlanwood32 said:


> *You don't need to see the player live to analyze a game.* Nobody has any trouble with European players.


If you're talking about "live" as in "at the moment the games are being played/in person," then ok, but if you're talking about "live" as in actually watching the guy play, that's balogna. 



Lachlanwood32 said:


> Everyone is biased, posters, NBA draft websites, Chad Ford, that's why I find it necessary for me to look around at different opinions as well as my own. I understand if others don't share that view though.


I agree. That's why I stick to Dave Telep and the other Scout.com crew when it comes to Preps.

Like you said, it comes down to opinion. That's mine.


----------



## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

how good will Renardo Sydney? is he the next one?


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

BigMac said:


> how good will Renardo Sydney? is he the next one?



Renardo Sidney should end up being very good, although that depends on his work ethic. At 6-10, 260 as a 16 year old you are a pretty impressive physical specimen but he also has a decent skill set. Jonathan Watters can probably tell you more bout him ahving watched him in person.


Also Jonathan Watters I read the Draftexpress articles and I must say you guys do a very good job and even top nbadraft.net in my mind as far as coverage.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Sidney is amazingly advanced, both physically and skill wise, for a 2009 kid. He's put on quite a bit of weight, and is very much a finesse PF/C prospect. At least 6'10 at the moment, and probably still growing. The weight gain is nice, but also a bit concerning. He's a bit pudgy at the moment, and any more beef probably isn't going to be a good thing at this point. He's got a nice perimeter skillset, preferring to shoot the midrange J or take big men off the dribble from the high post rather than operating with his backt to the basket. Sometimes he gets carried away with thinking he is a guard, but in Vegas he definitely settled down and played his role in the paint as the week went on. Attitude is a bit of a question mark, as he can act very childish when things aren't going his way. Is he a guy that has unlimited upside as a 3-position player, or is he somebody that simply matured early? If he buys into the hype and doesn't keep improving, he's not going to become the all-world prospect people are looking for in him. That being said, he's remarkably far ahead of the curve, both in terms of physical tools and feel for the game.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I don't think he is regarded as "not such a great point guard." At least not by the people in the business that I talk to. Your point is very true. It is what makes Mayo such a great prospect.


Not such a great point guard was poor word choice. In context, I meant Mayo's point guard skills are somewhat overlooked by most fans because of his great scoring abilities.




Jonathan Watters said:


> No doubt Jennings is going to be special. Especially if he ever grows out of that 13 year-old's body. But he's not a better point guard right now than OJ Mayo is. He's just as prone to poor decisions, and has much better coaching and team structure/passing options than Mayo does.


I've seen Jennings listed as heavy as 180 pounds, scout and rival have him at around 170 odd. He looks very thin though, with a good strength coach at college it shouldn't be a problem though. He's only young and going into his junior year, body develop will hopefully hit soon. He just turned 17 last week.




Jonathan Watters said:


> You are simply wrong here. Combo guards are finding success across the NBA. Dwayne Wade and Gilbert Arenas have changed things. Randy Foye went #6 in the draft this year. Brandon Roy played the point in the summer league. Eric Gordon has every tool necessary to play the point, and is going to be a damn fine combo guard in the NBA someday, mark my words.


I specifically defined tweener so that this wouldn't happen. All the players you named are, in my opinion, not really betweeners. Dwyane Wade and Arenas would go down as combo guards for me. The difference? A betweener has no real position or is too short/tall to play their desired position, a combo can play both positions well. That's why I mentioned Wagner as my example. I guess Foye has the capability to be labelled a tweener, but he seems to be a 2 guard (with fine size due to his wingspan).

Eric Gordon will see little time at the 2. He's 6'3 now, and will probably finish up around 6'4, 6'5 when measured by the NBA. His point guard skills aren't what they need to be. Nearly everywhere he's listed as a 2 guard, I'm not sure why you see him being a 1. He's a scorer.

Whats your take on Darrell Arthur?


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Don't judge Mayo by this one game. In the first two contests, he was so far ahead of anybody else in Vegas that he really shouldn't even be ranked on the same list as the other players in his class. Number one just isn't high enough. Not a point guard? This guy is going to be an All-Star from the day he steps foot onto an NBA Court...
> 
> That said, Eric Gordon put up 30 in each of the games we saw, and is certainly a combo guard prospect down the road. One of the top 3 college prospects in the class, an instant 20 ppg scorer in the Big Ten, and probably one or two and done. Just scary good, folks.
> 
> ...


I live right by Greg Monroe, and played basketball against him since we were very little, actually he's never been little. I think he's good enough to be a top prospect, but it's his size that make him. I personally think i have more skills than him but theirs a big diffrence he's 6'9 and i'm 6'0 and he's built like a Nfl linemen, he has HUGE shoulders. He has great court awareness and for a big man he could handle the ball, he's very talented, he's been domnating his oppenents since I can remember, like when he was in 7th grade he was playing against this team with a bunch of 9th graders and he was by far bigger than anyone at that time I think he was like 6'6 or 6'5, and with his size alone he just dominated everybody.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> I live right by Greg Monroe, and played basketball against him since we were very little, actually he's never been little. I think he's good enough to be a top prospect, but it's his size that make him. I personally think i have more skills than him but theirs a big diffrence he's 6'9 and i'm 6'0 and he's built like a Nfl linemen, he has HUGE shoulders. He has great court awareness and for a big man he could handle the ball, he's very talented, he's been domnating his oppenents since I can remember, like when he was in 7th grade he was playing against this team with a bunch of 9th graders and he was by far bigger than anyone at that time I think he was like 6'6 or 6'5, and with his size alone he just dominated everybody.


I'm gonna need you to push Duke as much as possible while you're around him. Thanks.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

TM said:


> I'm gonna need you to push Duke as much as possible while you're around him. Thanks.


TM, just a random question, but do you think these HS kids react well to plugs for schools or not? From what I know, a few of them actually find it rather annoying and it tends to have a negative effect on them. Of course, people react differently.

This isn't directed at you saying push Duke, I'm just curious if you know anything about it. But Kentucky's been very "aggressive" lately, and their recruiting class can't show for it. From talking to the likes of Darrell Arthur and Kevin Love, factors such as myspace do more harm than good for the universities, because they associate these pushers with the university, usually for worse.


----------



## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

TM said:


> I'm gonna need you to push Duke as much as possible while you're around him. Thanks.


Unless you are a Duke Alumni... Then its VIOLATION city baby.

lol

I hate the NCAA, but love its sports.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> I've seen Jennings listed as heavy as 180 pounds, scout and rival have him at around 170 odd. He looks very thin though, with a good strength coach at college it shouldn't be a problem though. He's only young and going into his junior year, body develop will hopefully hit soon. He just turned 17 last week.


I don't doubt this. I'm just saying that he has plenty of the same tendencies that Mayo has, in terms of forcing plays in hopes of coming up with the spectacular. 



> I specifically defined tweener so that this wouldn't happen. All the players you named are, in my opinion, not really betweeners. Dwyane Wade and Arenas would go down as combo guards for me. The difference? A betweener has no real position or is too short/tall to play their desired position, a combo can play both positions well. That's why I mentioned Wagner as my example. I guess Foye has the capability to be labelled a tweener, but he seems to be a 2 guard (with fine size due to his wingspan).


And my point is that OJ Mayo is in no way, shape, or form a tweener. OJ can play either position equally well, and is the type of talent (IE Wade, Arenas, Roy) who is going to have the ball in his hands as often as possible. "making a decision on a position" is absolutely not an issue. 



> Eric Gordon will see little time at the 2. He's 6'3 now, and will probably finish up around 6'4, 6'5 when measured by the NBA. His point guard skills aren't what they need to be. Nearly everywhere he's listed as a 2 guard, I'm not sure why you see him being a 1. He's a scorer.


Eric Gordon is absolutely a scorer, and a 2 guard at the moment. But I'm not talking about what he is right now, I'm talking about what he will be in five years. Gordon is a good ballhandler, a solid decision maker, has a dynamite first step, knows how to create his own shot, and plays tough, physical defense. It may take him some time, but down the road he is a combo guard. He looks more confident with the ball in his hands every time I see him play. He is listed as a 2-guard at the moment, but again, I've talked to plenty of people who know his game inside and out who think that he ends up as a combo guard. I really see him developing a lot like Randy Foye did over the course of his college career. Of course, he is more talented than Foye. His time in college may be much shorter. 

I'm also highly doubting that Gordon is 6'3. Probably 6'1 in barefeet, give him 6'2. 



> Whats your take on Darrell Arthur?


I haven't seen Arthur in person, so I'm not as confident in my analysis on him. Arthur is a talent, to be sure, but much more of a prospect than an immediate impact player. His effort is inconsistent, and he is still working on polishing his "face up 4" game. In that regard, I think Kansas was a very poor choice for him. There is no room for a project on Bill Self's roster this season. He's got great size, good athleticism, and some decent skill. Give him 2-3 years, and he will develop if he matures and works hard. Maybe I have seen the wrong tape and am being too harsh here, but I really don't see him taking a spot away from CJ Giles, Sasha Kaun, Julian Wright, or even Darnell Jackson this winter.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I'm also highly doubting that Gordon is 6'3. Probably 6'1 in barefeet, give him 6'2.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen Arthur in person, so I'm not as confident in my analysis on him. Arthur is a talent, to be sure, but much more of a prospect than an immediate impact player. His effort is inconsistent, and he is still working on polishing his "face up 4" game. In that regard, I think Kansas was a very poor choice for him. There is no room for a project on Bill Self's roster this season. He's got great size, good athleticism, and some decent skill. Give him 2-3 years, and he will develop if he matures and works hard. Maybe I have seen the wrong tape and am being too harsh here, but I really don't see him taking a spot away from CJ Giles, Sasha Kaun, Julian Wright, or even Darnell Jackson this winter.


Rose doesn't look 6'3 to me, but you never know with the way the NBA measures. To me, height isn't so important. The only gain from height is psychologically. Wingspan, reach and build are far more vital.

As for Arthur, I definitely haven't seen enough of him. Do you consider him a 3 or a 4 though? Scout had him ranked as the #2 PF coming out of '06. Tellep considers KU to have the 4th strongest recruiting class because of Arthur and Collins. I've talked to Arthur a few times, he's definitely a good guy with a good head on his shoulders. He's got decent size, good athleticism and is a decent scorer. He can shoot from the perimeter and take it inside with a drop step from what I've seen. He's pretty versatile, but I can't see him starting for KU. Baylor, LSU? Possibly. Arizona, KU, Texas? Probably not. He chose one of his top schools (reputation wise) and I guess will be patient. He was a top 15 recruit this year, I'll be surprised if he doesn't make a draft class before it's all said and done. Self sounds like he'll be used a bit during the season, I'm presuming at the 4.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> TM, just a random question, but do you think these HS kids react well to plugs for schools or not? From what I know, a few of them actually find it rather annoying and it tends to have a negative effect on them. *Of course, people react differently.*


You said it. I'm sure some kids love the attention, especially the younger ones. Guys like Love or Arthur who have been in the spotlight for 3-4 years probably get tired of it. 



Lachlanwood32 said:


> But Kentucky's been very "aggressive" lately, and their recruiting class can't show for it.


That's just cause it's Kentucky :angel: No seriously, that's Tubby's fault IMO, but that discussion is for another day. 



Lachlanwood32 said:


> From talking to the likes of Darrell Arthur and Kevin Love, factors such as myspace do more harm than good for the universities, because they associate these pushers with the university, usually for worse.


But, you gonna tell me Love wasn't eating this up...








:biggrin: Depends on who's talking, if you know what I mean.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

TM said:


> You said it. I'm sure some kids love the attention, especially the younger ones. Guys like Love or Arthur who have been in the spotlight for 3-4 years probably get tired of it.
> 
> That's just cause it's Kentucky :angel: No seriously, that's Tubby's fault IMO, but that discussion is for another day.
> 
> ...



Kevin Love loves the attention. He's cocky and doesn't consider it a big deal at all. He told me straight out he doesn't mind all the publicity and the recent SI article about him. I guess you get use to it growing up with an ex-NBA dad, probably groomed for it.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> Rose doesn't look 6'3 to me, but you never know with the way the NBA measures. To me, height isn't so important. The only gain from height is psychologically. Wingspan, reach and build are far more vital.
> 
> As for Arthur, I definitely haven't seen enough of him. Do you consider him a 3 or a 4 though? Scout had him ranked as the #2 PF coming out of '06. Tellep considers KU to have the 4th strongest recruiting class because of Arthur and Collins. I've talked to Arthur a few times, he's definitely a good guy with a good head on his shoulders. He's got decent size, good athleticism and is a decent scorer. He can shoot from the perimeter and take it inside with a drop step from what I've seen. He's pretty versatile, but I can't see him starting for KU. Baylor, LSU? Possibly. Arizona, KU, Texas? Probably not. He chose one of his top schools (reputation wise) and I guess will be patient. He was a top 15 recruit this year, I'll be surprised if he doesn't make a draft class before it's all said and done. Self sounds like he'll be used a bit during the season, I'm presuming at the 4.


He almost certainly would have started for Texas and Arizona. Neither program has much of anything inside at the moment. Damion James, the natural wing, is the starting 4 for Texas at the moment. I don't know who Arizona is going to put at the four, but there is nobody proven beyond Radenovic. He probably would have stepped right next to Ivan. LSU is actually the one program other than Kansas that I would question him starting on. Davis will occupy the 5, while Darnell Lazare is a proven performer and Magnum Rolle has the talent to compete with Arthur. Mitchell could certainly spend some time at the 4 this year as well, now that Brady's backcourt has a few more bodies. 

Right now I see Arthur as a "face up 4", though I suppose he could become more of a 3 down the road. I doubt it, though.

For Kansas' class, I really like Collins. There are athletes, and then there are athletes. He gets to the hole at will, and the type of hard-nosed lead guard that Bill Self will have no choice but to play. He may need some "reigning in", but I like Collins' take no prisoners approach. I bet he ends up playing major minutes, if not starting, before conference play begins.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I don't know who Arizona is going to put at the four, but there is nobody proven beyond Radenovic.


I guess they'll have a go at trying to give Chase some time at the 4? They're very thin in the frontcourt, it's Ivan, Walters and trash. They'll just run a hosrt line up with Williams at the 3 and Chase at the 4 sometimes I guess.

Jonathan, what's your take on Thad Young? One and done? I'm fond of the kid and think he'll turn into something special. He's smart and extremely skilled. He just needs some meat on those bones. Kobe Bryant was very thin, probably as thin as Young, coming out of HS though, so it's not impossible that he'll add some strength. He's very long and will be a good defensive player, something tells me he's going to be a great player. Possibly better than Durant.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> I guess they'll have a go at trying to give Chase some time at the 4? They're very thin in the frontcourt, it's Ivan, Walters and trash. They'll just run a hosrt line up with Williams at the 3 and Chase at the 4 sometimes I guess.


Lute Olson certainly hasn't been afraid of playing 4 guards in the past. I guess I'm thinking of Hassan Adams here. Marcus Williams is super long and a great rebounder, and McClellan is tough. They'll be fine, but you'll probably hear a lot about their lack of a frontcourt in the preseason press. Arthur would have helped, though. 



> Jonathan, what's your take on Thad Young? One and done? I'm fond of the kid and think he'll turn into something special. He's smart and extremely skilled. He just needs some meat on those bones. Kobe Bryant was very thin, probably as thin as Young, coming out of HS though, so it's not impossible that he'll add some strength. He's very long and will be a good defensive player, something tells me he's going to be a great player. Possibly better than Durant.


I don't think Young is skinny at all. He's got a great frame, and is stronger than plenty of players in his mold coming out of high school. Young has some pretty impressive scoring tools, though he's still in need of polish when it comes to his perimeter shooting, court vision, and defense. His crossover is nasty, and he really knows how to slash. Not the super-elite athlete that some have made him out to be, but good enough. He doesn't have Durant's upside or out of this world skill, but he's a more complete player right now and much more of a sure thing at the next level.


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Jonathan Watters I have a question, do you think OJ Mayo is bored with the High School competition? Because to me it seems like he is bored and I think he would be doing better playing against better competition.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I don't think Young is skinny at all. He's got a great frame, and is stronger than plenty of players in his mold coming out of high school. Young has some pretty impressive scoring tools, though he's still in need of polish when it comes to his perimeter shooting, court vision, and defense. His crossover is nasty, and he really knows how to slash. Not the super-elite athlete that some have made him out to be, but good enough. He doesn't have Durant's upside or out of this world skill, but he's a more complete player right now and much more of a sure thing at the next level.


I think he's skinny. Just a quick look at his upper body and arms tells me he needs to add some weight before he reaches the pros. Of course, McGrady and Kobe were both skinny coming out of HS but have added weight. I have no doubt Young will eventually add weight too. I also believe he has good court vision, I've seen him throw a few fabulous passes at Mitchell, when they're available. As the competition around him improves, and his teammates are better at moving without the ball I believe we'll see a better passing game. The thing about his athleticism is he uses it in the game. It's one thing to be super-athletic, and another to use that athleticism. His quickness is fantastic for a 6'9 guy. We talk about Brandan Wright being long, but Young looks to be every bit as long when taking into account their respective heights.

Javaris and Thaddeus is a great pairing for GT.


----------



## Doomsday Device (May 23, 2006)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> I think he's skinny. Just a quick look at his upper body and arms tells me he needs to add some weight before he reaches the pros. Of course, McGrady and Kobe were both skinny coming out of HS but have added weight. I have no doubt Young will eventually add weight too. I also believe he has good court vision, I've seen him throw a few fabulous passes at Mitchell, when they're available. As the competition around him improves, and his teammates are better at moving without the ball I believe we'll see a better passing game. The thing about his athleticism is he uses it in the game. It's one thing to be super-athletic, and another to use that athleticism. His quickness is fantastic for a 6'9 guy. We talk about Brandan Wright being long, but Young looks to be every bit as long when taking into account their respective heights.
> 
> Javaris and Thaddeus is a great pairing for GT.


Draft Express had a post a few months ago with the heights, standing reaches, and wingspans from the Nike Hoop Summit. Wright has about 4 inches on Young in wingspan with an extra 2 inches of height.
http://www.draftexpress.com/dedaily.php?p=640


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Doomsday Device said:


> Draft Express had a post a few months ago with the heights, standing reaches, and wingspans from the Nike Hoop Summit. Wright has about 4 inches on Young in wingspan with an extra 2 inches of height.
> http://www.draftexpress.com/dedaily.php?p=640


Nice find. Paul Harris is a freak, no wonder he's such a good defender. Wright and Young have similar standing reaches (when compared to their heights). Thad Young has a similar wingspan to Spencer Hawes. Very impressive for a guy they measured (without shoes) at 6'7.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Thaddeus will be the Freshman of the Year this season. Mark it down.


----------



## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

TM said:


> Thaddeus will be the Freshman of the Year this season. Mark it down.



I agree espically since He will be the main option for G-Tech, or one of them.


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Ghost said:


> I agree espically since He will be the main option for G-Tech, or one of them.


The only obstacle would be Javaris and whether he'll give up the ball and spotlight to Thad.


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Lachlanwood32 said:


> The only obstacle would be Javaris and whether he'll give up the ball and spotlight to Thad.


How did Louis Clinch do in his Freh. year, i didn't really pay attention to the yellow jackets. Is he going to have a bigger role this season?


----------



## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> How did Louis Clinch do in his Freh. year, i didn't really pay attention to the yellow jackets. Is he going to have a bigger role this season?


To be fair I'm probably not the one to ask, I didn't really tune into any GT games this past season either.


----------



## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

Mr. Watters I have really enjoyed your post about some of these prospects and thought I might share my own ideas. I'll start with Eric Gordon. There isn't a better scorer in the country. He does from all over the court. I think he should stay at the 2 because playing the point would take away his best quality(his scoring).

Lets move on to Mayo. He is a definite point guard. He is equally comfortable scoring as well as distributing. At 6'5" he has great height and strength. While he isn't head and shoulders above everyone else like some may think, he is number 1 and a special talent.

Next theres Derrick Rose. Rose reminds me of Jason Kidd. He has good size, he can rebound, and is extremely fast. Athletically you don't see many point guards like him. He does need to work on a way to remain aggressive while also maintaining his unselfish attitude. A guy you guys didn't mention is Jerryd Bayless. Bayless can score as well as anyone but he can also run the point. He is super athlete like Rose and to me he compares to a taller Jason Williams(Duke version).

Then there is Kevin Love. Love is a beast down low that always outsmarts his opponents. With his range continuing to improve, he is going to be a star at both levels. To me he is already as good if not better than Tyler Hansbrough.

As far as the 06 class, being from Chicago I love Sherron Collins. He is a Tim Hardaway clone who is going to develop into a great player at Kansas. He will be thrill to watch for the fans there. I also like Chase Budinger. Budinger is versatile enought to play 4 positions. He can shoot, pass, handle, and is a freak athlete.

Lastly I think freshman of year will go to one of these three guys: Spencer Hawes, Kevin Durant, Thad Young. Each will be a big part of their teams offense. If I had to pick I would take Durant though.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

You are certainly right about Gordon at the college level. I like to envision Bill Self building another version of the 2005 backcourt trio with Rose, McCamey, and Gordon. Gordon would be the Luther Head of the group. However, as I have said earlier in the thread, the NBA isn't afraid of scoring point guards anymore. Gordon is probably going to play a bit of combo guard at Illinois, and end up there in the NBA. Gordon is certainly a good athlete, but I don't think he would be too special at the NBA level as a 6'2 full-time SG. He is improving his handle and ability to attack off the dribble with every game. In today's NBA, you can put the ball in his hands without losing any of his scoring pop.

I like the Jay Williams comparison for Rose. Jay is a better shooter, while Rose is a better point guard and can get up a bit higher.

I don't mean to nit-pick about Mayo, but in terms of professinal potential, there is no way you can even consider anybody else out of this class. At the college level, I can see it being a bit different. Love is definitely going to dominate, and so will Gordon. NBA, they need to create seperate lists: one for Mayo, and one for everybody else.


----------

