# Breaking down the Northwest



## cpawfan

Last season the Nuggets won the division by default. Have the other 4 teams improved enough to capitalize on the Nuggets still unbalanced roster?

*Minnesota:* Their new backcourt of Foye and Mike James adds two more scorers to Ricky Davis and KG which should give them enough punch to at least have a winning record. However, they are going to have a hard time stopping anyone from scoring.

*Utah:* I like the addition of Brewer to their backcourt and with a full season under his belt, Deron Williams is my choice for the best point guard in the division. The question is can the front court stay healthy enough this season. That said, I still find them very overrated because AK-47 isn't a good enough defender to make up for the poor defense of both Boozer and Okur

*Seattle:* We know they will score a lot of points and Wilcox gives them an inside scoring threat. However, they appear to be one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA.

*Portland:* They need to dump the two trouble makers in Zach and Darius before they can go anywhere.


----------



## pac4eva5

no they will win by default again...


----------



## Ruff Draft

Whaaaaat? Mike James, Ricky Davis, and Trenton Hassell can all play great defense. Hell the only wing player to worry about is T-Hud, and hes out for awhile. The post is where the defense is lacking. Blount is only a great scorer, and Griffin doesn't have his head straight. KG is the only above average post-defender.


----------



## cpawfan

XMATTHEWX said:


> Whaaaaat? Mike James, Ricky Davis, and Trenton Hassell can all play great defense. Hell the only wing player to worry about is T-Hud, and hes out for awhile. The post is where the defense is lacking. Blount is only a great scorer, and Griffin doesn't have his head straight. KG is the only above average post-defender.


You are completely overusing the word great. Hassell is the only one of the 3 that is even remotely close to great. The Mike James that won a championship with the Pistons was a very solid defender but he hasn't been seen since. You are vastly overrating Davis.


----------



## Pimped Out

cpawfan said:


> You are completely overusing the word great. Hassell is the only one of the 3 that is even remotely close to great. The Mike James that won a championship with the Pistons was a very solid defender but he hasn't been seen since. You are vastly overrating Davis.


 mike james was a "very solid defender" when he was in houston. he wasnt a great defender, but very good. 

i think he will be a better defender next season when he will take on less of an offensive role than he did with the raptors.


----------



## gambitnut

cpawfan said:


> Last season the Nuggets won the division by default. Have the other 4 teams improved enough to capitalize on the Nuggets still unbalanced roster?
> 
> *Portland:* They need to dump the two trouble makers in Zach and Darius before they can go anywhere.


When healthy, those are two pretty good players and they don't cause many problems on the court, Zach in particular. I don't expect the Blazers to win the division, but I expect the youth of the rest of the roster to hold them back more than those two players.


----------



## IbizaXL

i see the jazz and the Nugz fighting for the top spot. im not too sold on the wolves much less the sonics.


----------



## darth-horax

One thing all the Northwest teams (sans the Nuggets) have in common? No post presence.

KG is the only under teh basket player to worry about in the entire division. AK 47 would rather slash and pop...Portland? Puhlease. Sonics have young guys, but nothing to worry abuot...

Denver has all the low post players in the division.
Nene, Kmart, Camby, Joe Smith, heck, even Najera and other backups give us mad depth.


----------



## Ruff Draft

darth-horax said:


> One thing all the Northwest teams (sans the Nuggets) have in common? No post presence.
> 
> KG is the only under teh basket player to worry about in the entire division. AK 47 would rather slash and pop...Portland? Puhlease. Sonics have young guys, but nothing to worry abuot...
> 
> Denver has all the low post players in the division.
> Nene, Kmart, Camby, Joe Smith, heck, even Najera and other backups give us mad depth.


I'll give you guys the best front-court. However you have no wing players that will put points on the board, and Utah has a great front-court also. The Wolves don't


----------



## darth-horax

Utah has a great frontcourt? AK47 and Mehmet Okur? How many championships will that combo bring them? 0! 

We do need to get more wing players, I'll give you that, but you seem to forget about a certain 26 ppg scorer named Carmelo something or other.


----------



## Ruff Draft

darth-horax said:


> Utah has a great frontcourt? AK47 and Mehmet Okur? How many championships will that combo bring them? 0!
> 
> We do need to get more wing players, I'll give you that, but you seem to forget about a certain 26 ppg scorer named Carmelo something or other.


AK = Carmelo
Boozer = Unhealthy K-Mart
Okur <<<<< Camby


----------



## darth-horax

AK 47=/=Melo...no way, no how.
Kmart, if healthy, AND THAT'S A BIG IF, is way better than Boozer. I like Carlos though, nice guy.
You're right on teh Okur<<<<<Camby. Not even in the same league as Marcus.

Well, they're both in the NBA, but talent wise...ah, never mind.


----------



## IbizaXL

darth-horax said:


> AK 47=/=Melo...no way, no how.
> Kmart, if healthy, AND THAT'S A BIG IF, is way better than Boozer. I like Carlos though, nice guy.
> You're right on teh Okur<<<<<Camby. Not even in the same league as Marcus.
> 
> Well, they're both in the NBA, but talent wise...ah, never mind.


i think Boozer and kmart are pretty much the same talent-wise. but kmart is obviously the most athletic


----------



## pac4eva5

lol people are funny. when healthy kmart is dominant on defense and fits our team so well...not that it matters because i dont expect him to be on the team very long...

and ak47 = melo? im at a loss of words for that piece of ignorance... :nonono:


----------



## darth-horax

ak47 is a great all around player. However, I guarantee you that if you asked all the GM's in the league which player they'd rather build a franchise aruond, they'd say "Melo!". 

If ak47 had more players on his team, he wouldn't score nearly as much...but he is a special talent.

Special like Special K!


----------



## mediocre man

Portland has the best front court. 

Przybilla
Magloire
Randolph
LaFrentz
Miles
Webster
Aldridge


Their 4's and 5's are extremely good.


----------



## darth-horax

mediocre man said:


> Portland has the best front court.
> 
> Przybilla
> Magloire
> Randolph
> LaFrentz
> Miles
> Webster
> Aldridge
> 
> 
> Their 4's and 5's are extremely good.


The only one there that could even be considered as a possible all star would be Zach Randolph.

Nuggs have:

Camby
KMart
Nene
Melo
Najera
Kleiza
Joe Smith
Reggie Evans
Some other tall guy
And another really tall guy.


----------



## cpawfan

mediocre man said:


> Portland has the best front court.
> 
> Przybilla
> Magloire
> Randolph
> LaFrentz
> Miles
> Webster
> Aldridge
> 
> 
> Their 4's and 5's are extremely good.


That is a very liberal use of extremely good


----------



## mediocre man

The only player the Nuggets have that is clearly better than any of the players I mentioned is Anthony. Now while he's immensly better that doesn't mean as a whole that the Blazer front line isn't as deep or tallented as any in the league. 


However I don't even want to talk about our back court.....at least for a couple of years when Jack and Roy get some experience.


----------



## EddieLopez

Chicken nuggets all the way


----------



## Foulzilla

mediocre man said:


> Portland has the best front court.
> 
> Przybilla
> Magloire
> Randolph
> LaFrentz
> Miles
> Webster
> Aldridge
> 
> 
> Their 4's and 5's are extremely good.


I disagree. While our frontcourt is much improved, I'd take the Nuggets frontcourt anyday. 

Camby > Pryz or Mags
Kmart < Randolph though it isn't by a large margin (and will depend a lot on how each recover from their knee surgeries after a full offseason off). Nene might end up starting, but that's pure speculation and after a year off who knows. I would expect Randolph to still be better then him this year even so.
Melo >>> Miles

Once we get into backups it becomes somewhat of a tossup. But starters play most the minutes (barring injuries which both teams have problems with) so I don't think that changes anything.


----------



## mediocre man

Foulzilla said:


> I disagree. While our frontcourt is much improved, I'd take the Nuggets frontcourt anyday.
> 
> Camby > Pryz or Mags
> Kmart < Randolph though it isn't by a large margin (and will depend a lot on how each recover from their knee surgeries after a full offseason off). Nene might end up starting, but that's pure speculation and after a year off who knows. I would expect Randolph to still be better then him this year even so.
> Melo >>> Miles
> 
> Once we get into backups it becomes somewhat of a tossup. But starters play most the minutes (barring injuries which both teams have problems with) so I don't think that changes anything.



See I think it goes like this.

Camby < Prz 
KMart < Randolph
Carmelo >> Miles

Then our bench of Magloire, LaFrentz, Webster and Aldridge is better than Nene' and Najera.


----------



## Ruff Draft

mediocre man said:


> See I think it goes like this.
> 
> *Camby < Prz *
> KMart < Randolph
> Carmelo >> Miles
> 
> Then our bench of Magloire, LaFrentz, Webster and Aldridge is better than Nene' and Najera.


How do you even come up with this?

13p/12r/2a/1.5s/3b Camby. 
6p/7r/1a/0s/2b Pryz.


----------



## mediocre man

XMATTHEWX said:


> How do you even come up with this?
> 
> 13p/12r/2a/1.5s/3b Camby.
> 6p/7r/1a/0s/2b Pryz.




I got that backwards. Yes, camby is better than Joel statistically. It's the depth of the Blazers front court that gives them the edge I think.

I don't want to get into a big argument over this. I think denver's front court is good


----------



## AK-47

Kirilenko is not only = to melo, but greater than melo when healthy.

Don't give me the "but" injured thing. Because Camby and Kmart arn't exactly injury free either.

But the jazz and nuggets both have top frontcourts in the league when all are healthy. I really am looking forward to the the race for the NW division.


----------



## pac4eva5

mediocre man said:


> It's the depth of the Blazers front court that gives them the edge I think.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## pac4eva5

mediocre man said:


> I don't want to get into a big argument over this.


LOL! of course u dont.......


----------



## pac4eva5

AK-47 said:


> Kirilenko is not only = to melo, but greater than melo when healthy.


well im definetely getting a nice laugh today. homerism is a powerful thing...


----------



## darth-horax

AK-47 said:


> Kirilenko is not only = to melo, but greater than melo when healthy.
> 
> Don't give me the "but" injured thing. Because Camby and Kmart arn't exactly injury free either.
> 
> But the jazz and nuggets both have top frontcourts in the league when all are healthy. I really am looking forward to the the race for the NW division.



Ak47>Melo? Are you smoking the Roy Tarpley special this evening? 

Ak47 is great, I'll give him that, but he's no Melo. Not even close.


----------



## Zuca

AK-47 said:


> Kirilenko is not only = to melo, but greater than melo when healthy.


No way... I agree with guys, AK47 is a good player, but Melo is waaaaay better!



AK-47 said:


> Don't give me the "but" injured thing. Because Camby and Kmart arn't exactly injury free either.


Ditto for Carlos "the new Karl Malone" (minus the great defense) Boozer...


----------



## GNG

mediocre man said:


> Portland has the best front court.
> 
> Przybilla
> Magloire
> Randolph
> LaFrentz
> Miles
> Webster
> Aldridge
> 
> Their 4's and 5's are *extremely good.*


Not the term I would use. The best thing I can say about Portland's 4s and 5s is that, well, they have a lot of guys who can play the 4 or 5.

And since when is Webster a frontcourt player?


----------



## AK-47

pac4eva5 said:


> well im definetely getting a nice laugh today. homerism is a powerful thing...


Utah vs Denver Matchup last year

Jazz 3-1

Game 1
kirilenko plays bad
melo plays good
Jazz lose

Game 2
kirilenko plays good
melo plays bad
Jazz win

Game 3
kirilenko plays good
melo scores 31 but ball hogs it shooting 1/3 of the shots
Jazz win

Game 4
Kirilenko plays bad, but holds melo on defense
melo plays bad
Jazz win

Head to Head matchups, Kirilenko beat him 3-1.


----------



## handclap problematic

darth-horax said:


> One thing all the Northwest teams (sans the Nuggets) have in common? No post presence.
> 
> KG is the only under teh basket player to worry about in the entire division. AK 47 would rather slash and pop...Portland? Puhlease. Sonics have young guys, but nothing to worry abuot...
> 
> Denver has all the low post players in the division.
> Nene, Kmart, Camby, Joe Smith, heck, even Najera and other backups give us mad depth.



I am not quite sure what you are talking about.
You don't think Portland has any low post scorers? You must be looking at a different roster than I am. Zach Randolph, though he has problems, is a better low post scorer than anyone on the Nuggets. The Blazers also have Jamaal Magloire at the 5, who can score in the post, Lamarcus Aldridge who has some post game, Joel Prizbilla, who is not very good as a one on one post threat, but is very very good going to the basket on pick and rolls, and Darius Miles, who is much better in the post than he is outside of it. 

And, for the record, how is Camby a low post threat? He is known to make his living on midrange jumpshots. And no, getting offensive rebounds as putbacks does not make him a low post threat. And while he may have the ability to play the low post, he doesn't. Hmmm, what else.....
Nene was injured all year, and there is no telling how he will come back from that serious surgery. Touting him as a big plus to your team is a shaky prospect. I like the guy, I really do, but he will have to prove to everybody in the league that he can come back from that injury. And, another note... touting Najera as a low post threat does not help your argument. He hustles, scraps and fights (for position, loose balls, etc.. etc..), but he is not going to scare anyone in the post. 
And Kenyon.....hasn't done a thing since leaving New Jersey. He has looked very mediocre during his stint with Denver. He has suffered injuries, and has looked very very inconsistent even when approaching a decent bill of health. 

And for the record, I do not think the Blazers will do very well this season. I am not stating all of this as some sort of reasoning for how Portland will challenge for the NW division or anything. Far from it.
But, I think you are caught up a bit in homerism and are definately not seeing past your own team. 
I think the division title is up for grabs between Denver and Utah personally. But, both teams have had severe injury problems lately, so, whoever can stay the healthiest will probably take it....at least in my opinion. 

Anyways, I am not trying to be overly harsh. But, I thought I had to share my thoughts. I like this thread by the way... Tis a good way to get all of the NW division fans together for some friendly banter....

Peace.
Prunetang


----------



## handclap problematic

Rawse said:


> Not the term I would use. The best thing I can say about Portland's 4s and 5s is that, well, they have a lot of guys who can play the 4 or 5.
> 
> And since when is Webster a frontcourt player?



As a Blazer fan, "Very Good" is not the term I would use either. But I would definately say Solid, Good or even approaching the status inbetween good and very good. I think a lot of people are underrating the Portland big men. It is definately not the best front court in the league, but I would take the Blazer's front court over many of the teams in the league....in fact, a pretty good portion of it. With Gasol out for your Grizzlies (which is really too bad), the Blazers 4's and 5's are much much much better than what the Grizzlies will bring out. I don;t mean that in a bad way, by the way. I hope Gasol comes back healthy and continues his impoving play. There is just something I have to like about the guy with the beard. 

And, while Webster isn't usually considered a "frontcourt" player, he is expected to play quite a bit of SF this year. He will be splitting his time as a 2/3. And it actually makes sense. The guy has the size and strength to play the 3. He is about the same height of Carmello and only about 10 pounds lighter. He should be fine. 

Prunetang


----------



## pac4eva5

what ive learned from this thread...

-portland will win the division because they have a "great" front court, even better than the nuggets.
-portland's front court is better than the grizzlies (dont know what that has anything to do with)
-AK47 is the next michael jordan
-adding amare to the suns is not a big plus because he didnt play all last year
-webster is equal to melo and will do just fine because hes the same size and actually 10 pounds lighter
-melo spells his name with 2 "L"s apparently
-zach randolph is a better low post scorer than melo (which would make randolph argubally the best in the world, no?)
<strike>-foulzilla lives in denial yet seems to be the only blazer fan with any knowledge about basketball</strike>
-rawse tried to contribute to the board yet somehow the grizzlies managed to get into this thread LOL!


keep em coming guys! ive learned a lot so far!

*Unnecessary. And a couple of the most-knowledgeable posters on the site are Blazer fans.*


----------



## IbizaXL

pac4eva5 said:


> what ive learned from this thread...
> 
> -portland will win the division because they have a "great" front court, even better than the nuggets.
> -portland's front court is better than the grizzlies (dont know what that has anything to do with)
> -AK47 is the next michael jordan
> -adding amare to the suns is not a big plus because he didnt play all last year
> -webster is equal to melo and will do just fine because hes the same size and actually 10 pounds lighter
> -melo spells his name with 2 "L"s apparently
> -zach randolph is a better low post scorer than melo (which would make randolph argubally the best in the world, no?)
> -foulzilla lives in denial yet seems to be the only blazer fan with any knowledge about basketball
> -*rawse tried to contribute to the board yet somehow the grizzlies managed to get into this thread LOL!*
> 
> 
> keep em coming guys! ive learned a lot so far!


well, to be fair, rawse didnt say a word about the Grizz, somebody else did lol


----------



## pac4eva5

Gio305 said:


> well, to be fair, rawse didnt say a word about the Grizz, somebody else did lol


i know...just thought it was funny


----------



## GNG

handclap problematic said:


> As a Blazer fan, "Very Good" is not the term I would use either. But I would definately say Solid, Good or even approaching the status inbetween good and very good. I think a lot of people are underrating the Portland big men. *It is definately not the best front court in the league, but I would take the Blazer's front court over many of the teams in the league....in fact, a pretty good portion of it. With Gasol out for your Grizzlies (which is really too bad), the Blazers 4's and 5's are much much much better than what the Grizzlies will bring out. I don;t mean that in a bad way, by the way. I hope Gasol comes back healthy and continues his impoving play. There is just something I have to like about the guy with the beard.*


I very much agree that Portland's big men are more formidable than a Gasol-less Grizzlies frontline. The Grizzlies' frontcourt (sans Gasol, of course) has been among the worst in the league for years. Total shambles. I didn't mean to completely insult the Blazers' fans there. I'm not digging the depth for now (or in the future, honestly), but they have Randolph, who's a player you have to at least watch out for. I saw the Grizzlies get torched by the guy live in the 04-05 season, and we needed a last-possession score to pull that game out. Magloire's a pretty good rebounder and post defender (compared to anyone the Grizz have anyway), but I've always viewed him as an inefficient, not-too-prolific scorer. Przybilla's a good shotblocking presence to have, but I don't see him as a starter on a serious playoff basketball team.

Outside of that (where my depth comment comes in), I think LaFrentz is basically toast at this point. If he hasn't already, he'll soon become a bigger version of Austin Croshere. Magloire's most likely bolting at the end of the year (and Portland shouldn't stop him). At that point, they're left with Randolph, Pryz and an emerging Aldridge. Not too shabby, but I wouldn't champion its depth like a previous poster was doing.

To me, this whole "who's frontcourt is better" argument centers around who has the best individual player. I'd take Tim Duncan, Jackie Butler and Bruce Bowen over Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur, for example, because Duncan's a dominant two-way player and the Jazz guys aren't. That makes a huge difference on the court, even if it looks like a mismatch going the other way on paper. It's the same reason I'd take Memphis' 4s/5s (with Gasol healthy) over ~25 other 4/5 frontcourts.

I'm sure you know most of this. It's just late, and I'm typing to pass the time.


----------



## GNG

pac4eva5 said:


> -rawse tried to contribute to the board yet somehow the grizzlies managed to get into this thread LOL!


Don't blame me. :whoknows:


----------



## pac4eva5

Rawse said:


> I very much agree that Portland's big men are more formidable than a Gasol-less Grizzlies frontline. The Grizzlies' frontcourt (sans Gasol, of course) has been among the worst in the league for years. Total shambles. I didn't mean to completely insult the Blazers' fans there. I'm not digging the depth for now (or in the future, honestly), but they have Randolph, who's a player you have to at least watch out for. I saw the Grizzlies get torched by the guy live in the 04-05 season, and we needed a last-possession score to pull that game out. Magloire's a pretty good rebounder and post defender (compared to anyone the Grizz have anyway), but I've always viewed him as an inefficient, not-too-prolific scorer. Przybilla's a good shotblocking presence to have, but I don't see him as a starter on a serious playoff basketball team.
> 
> Outside of that (where my depth comment comes in), I think LaFrentz is basically toast at this point. If he hasn't already, he'll soon become a bigger version of Austin Croshere. Magloire's most likely bolting at the end of the year (and Portland shouldn't stop him). At that point, they're left with Randolph, Pryz and an emerging Aldridge. Not too shabby, but I wouldn't champion its depth like a previous poster was doing.
> 
> To me, this whole "who's frontcourt is better" argument centers around who has the best individual player. I'd take Tim Duncan, Jackie Butler and Bruce Bowen over Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur, for example, because Duncan's a dominant two-way player and the Jazz guys aren't. That makes a huge difference on the court, even if it looks like a mismatch going the other way on paper. It's the same reason I'd take Memphis' 4s/5s (with Gasol healthy) over ~25 other 4/5 frontcourts.
> 
> I'm sure you know most of this. It's just late, and I'm typing to pass the time.


id take melo, camby, and k-mart/nene (whos ever playing) against duncan, butler, and bowen

melo is one of the best post players in the nba. right up there with duncan and garnett. actually melo is simply the best getting to the basket over anybody but garnett has that rediculous fade away and duncan hits his J too...


----------



## GNG

pac4eva5 said:


> id take melo, camby, and k-mart/nene (whos ever playing) against duncan, butler, and bowen


I'm sure you would.



> melo is one of the best post players in the nba. right up there with duncan and garnett. actually melo is simply the best getting to the basket over anybody but garnett has that rediculous fade away and duncan hits his J too...


I'll take Melo's post offense over Garnett just because Garnett's not exactly a post player. He's more inclined to shoot jumpshots over defenders instead of putting his back to the basket and backing people down like Melo does. That's not to knock KG (who is a very good jump-shooter and has that nasty fadeaway like you said), but when it comes to overall post offense, I'll pick Carmelo.

He's not on Duncan's level as a post player though. Hardly anyone is.


----------



## pac4eva5

Rawse said:


> I'm sure you would.


and u wouldnt? the success of the spurs has been because of their guard play.

now if u put david robinson into the mix then its a whole nother story...





> I'll take Melo's post offense over Garnett just because Garnett's not exactly a post player. He's more inclined to shoot jumpshots over defenders instead of putting his back to the basket and backing people down like Melo does. That's not to knock KG (who is a very good jump-shooter and has that nasty fadeaway like you said), but when it comes to overall post offense, I'll pick Carmelo.
> 
> He's not on Duncan's level as a post player though. Hardly anyone is.


fair enough. melo is a better scorer in the post though, but overall duncan does everything right.

ill also add that melo isnt better...yet. duncan was a rookie at 22 years old...


----------



## GNG

pac4eva5 said:


> and u wouldnt? the success of the spurs has been because of their guard play.


That's just...no.

Honestly, not trying to belittle or make fun, do you think the Spurs' last two titles are because of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili moreso than Tim Duncan? If so, what's your reasoning?



> fair enough. melo is a better scorer in the post though, but overall duncan does everything right.
> 
> ill also add that melo isnt better...yet. duncan was a rookie at 22 years old...


Duncan right now is still a better, more efficient post scorer. Stats back this up. That's not to say Melo isn't an great post player in the league with an elite back-to-the-basket game, especially as a SF.

I don't care about ages and abilities transposed over time because that's not my argument.


----------



## unluckyseventeen

darth-horax said:


> Utah has a great frontcourt? AK47 and Mehmet Okur? How many championships will that combo bring them? 0!
> 
> We do need to get more wing players, I'll give you that, but you seem to forget about a certain 26 ppg scorer named Carmelo something or other.



You seem to forget a 22-10 threat in Boozer, a 22-10 threat in Okur, and a 20-9-6-4-3 threat in Kirilenko. Saying that the Nuggets have a better backcourt, on both sides of the ball, is absurd. If anything, it's a push. The Jazz have a younger backcourt. All of the guys you listed (Martin, Camby, Najera (what the hell?)) are clearly past their primes and won't be doing much of anything in 2-3 years.

If you say the Jazz have an unmentionable frontcourt, then you are completely ignoring the facts.

Nevermind this same terrible Jazz team beat your amazingly talented squad 3 out of 4 games. If I remember correctly, in all of those games, the score wasn't even close, our frontcourt was fully healthy, and we ran your boys, exceptional talent and all, out of the arena.


February 1: Jazz win 103-90

Mehmet Okur - 28 points, 11 rebounds
Andrei Kirilenko - 21 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, 5 blocks
Boozer - DNP



March 29: Jazz win 115-104

Kirilenko - 21 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, *7 BLOCKS*
Okur - 24 points, 4 rebounds
Boozer - 15 points, 7 rebounds

By the way, in this game, only EIGHT Jazz players suited up. EIGHT. I even made the trip to Denver for this game and enjoyed every moment.


April 12: Jazz win 104-83

Kirilenko - 14 points, 5 rebounds, 7 assists
Okur - 24 points, 10 rebounds
Boozer - 25 points, 13 rebounds



So... just incase you're curious, this means that our frontcourt whooped you guys in 3 out of 4 games. To list your players as so far superior is completely <strike>stupid</strike> when head-to-head you can't even stop them to save your lives.

<strike>Wake up dude.</strike> Let's see some evidence that your players are any better than ours, and that you guys are clear runaways.

As soon as you start sleeping on this team, you'll get one nasty wake-up call. Then again, I can see the homerism spewing out of you already, so I don't see what will stop you, if this doesn't.

Boozer > Martin
Okur = Camby
Kirilenko = Carmelo (Kirilenko actually has a higher efficiency)

If you need numbers, here you go.

Nuggets frontcourt: 52.4 PPG, 23.1 RPG, 6.2 APG, 4.75 BPG, 3.28 SPG, 58.67 EFF
Jazz frontcourt: 49.6 PPG, 25.7 RPG, 9.4 APG, 4.32 BPG, 2.88 SPG, 61.65 EFF

Again, a push, but don't even say the Denver squad is clear and away the better when you guys got stomped by the same players this season, and the numbers confirm the closeness and actually appear to give the Jazz an edge. <strike>I win, you lose.</strike>

*Unnecessary. Let's see some arguments that don't involve taunting.*


----------



## darth-horax

unluckyseventeen said:


> You seem to forget a 22-10 threat in Boozer, a 22-10 threat in Okur, and a 20-9-6-4-3 threat in Kirilenko. Saying that the Nuggets have a better backcourt, on both sides of the ball, is absurd. If anything, it's a push. The Jazz have a younger backcourt. All of the guys you listed (Martin, Camby, Najera (what the hell?)) are clearly past their primes and won't be doing much of anything in 2-3 years.
> 
> If you say the Jazz have an unmentionable frontcourt, then you are completely ignoring the facts.
> 
> Nevermind this same terrible Jazz team beat your amazingly talented squad 3 out of 4 games. If I remember correctly, in all of those games, the score wasn't even close, our frontcourt was fully healthy, and we ran your boys, exceptional talent and all, out of the arena.
> 
> 
> February 1: Jazz win 103-90
> 
> Mehmet Okur - 28 points, 11 rebounds
> Andrei Kirilenko - 21 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, 5 blocks
> Boozer - DNP
> 
> 
> 
> March 29: Jazz win 115-104
> 
> Kirilenko - 21 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, *7 BLOCKS*
> Okur - 24 points, 4 rebounds
> Boozer - 15 points, 7 rebounds
> 
> By the way, in this game, only EIGHT Jazz players suited up. EIGHT. I even made the trip to Denver for this game and enjoyed every moment.
> 
> 
> April 12: Jazz win 104-83
> 
> Kirilenko - 14 points, 5 rebounds, 7 assists
> Okur - 24 points, 10 rebounds
> Boozer - 25 points, 13 rebounds
> 
> 
> 
> So... just incase you're curious, this means that our frontcourt whooped you guys in 3 out of 4 games. To list your players as so far superior is completely stupid when head-to-head you can't even stop them to save your lives.
> 
> Wake up dude. Let's see some evidence that your players are any better than ours, and that you guys are clear runaways.
> 
> As soon as you start sleeping on this team, you'll get one nasty wake-up call. Then again, I can see the homerism spewing out of you already, so I don't see what will stop you, if this doesn't.
> 
> Boozer > Martin
> Okur = Camby
> Kirilenko = Carmelo (Kirilenko actually has a higher efficiency)
> 
> If you need numbers, here you go.
> 
> Nuggets frontcourt: 52.4 PPG, 23.1 RPG, 6.2 APG, 4.75 BPG, 3.28 SPG, 58.67 EFF
> Jazz frontcourt: 49.6 PPG, 25.7 RPG, 9.4 APG, 4.32 BPG, 2.88 SPG, 61.65 EFF
> 
> Again, a push, but don't even say the Denver squad is clear and away the better when you guys got stomped by the same players this season, and the numbers confirm the closeness and actually appear to give the Jazz an edge. I win, you lose.



First off, Denver won the division and got into the playoffs while AK 47 was trying to convince his wife it was time for another version of 'one affair per year.' Ok, that was low, but you know what I mean. They were off fishing and visiting Disneyland while Denver was getting stomped by the Clips.

About your game where you touted your Jazz for beating up on the Nuggets on March 29, you forget that Earl Boykins AND Marcus Camby were both out with injuries. Overall, we played without Boykins, Camby, Hodge, and Nene. You guys played without Gordon Giricek, Kris Humphries, CJ Miles, Greg FReakin' Ostertag, Andre Owens, Milt Freakin' Palacio, Robert Whaley.

Giricek plays 25 min/game, Humphries plays 10 min/game, CJ Miles play 8, Ostertag played 8, Andre Owens played 9, Palacio played 19, and Whaley played 9.

Total minutes missed=88
Total ppg missed=29 ppg.
Total rpg missed=13 rpg.

Boykins plays 26, Camby plays 33, Hodge plays 2, and Nene was injured all year.

Total minutes missed=61
Total ppg missed=27
Total rpg missed=15

So, with these stats, let's have a little fun. Let's assign each ppg lost=2 points. EAch minutes and rpg=1 point. We'll average them out per player to find out who missed out the most from the players missing.

Utah=218 points/8=27.25 efficiency rating
Nuggets=164/3 (Nene was out, so he has no bearing here)=54.66

Seems as if the Nuggets missed out on A LOT more than the Jazz did, even though the Jazz were missing more players. Almost TWICE as much efficiency was lost with our players.

You won 115-104...11 points...11? Not a problem. Big deal.

<strike>I win, you suck.</strike>


----------



## darth-horax

handclap problematic said:


> And, for the record, how is Camby a low post threat? He is known to make his living on midrange jumpshots. And no, getting offensive rebounds as putbacks does not make him a low post threat.



GETTING OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS AND PUTBACK DOESN'T CONSTITUTE A LOW POST THREAT? Do you even KNOW about low post play? Man, rebounding in the post is one of the greatest things a player can bring a team! Look at Rodman, the guy would have had NO career if he couldn't rebound!

Man... :twave:


----------



## unluckyseventeen

darth-horax said:


> First off, Denver won the division and got into the playoffs while AK 47 was trying to convince his wife it was time for another version of 'one affair per year.' Ok, that was low, but you know what I mean. They were off fishing and visiting Disneyland while Denver was getting stomped by the Clips.
> 
> About your game where you touted your Jazz for beating up on the Nuggets on March 29, you forget that Earl Boykins AND Marcus Camby were both out with injuries. Overall, we played without Boykins, Camby, Hodge, and Nene. You guys played without Gordon Giricek, Kris Humphries, CJ Miles, Greg FReakin' Ostertag, Andre Owens, Milt Freakin' Palacio, Robert Whaley.
> 
> Giricek plays 25 min/game, Humphries plays 10 min/game, CJ Miles play 8, Ostertag played 8, Andre Owens played 9, Palacio played 19, and Whaley played 9.
> 
> Total minutes missed=88
> Total ppg missed=29 ppg.
> Total rpg missed=13 rpg.
> 
> Boykins plays 26, Camby plays 33, Hodge plays 2, and Nene was injured all year.
> 
> Total minutes missed=61
> Total ppg missed=27
> Total rpg missed=15
> 
> So, with these stats, let's have a little fun. Let's assign each ppg lost=2 points. EAch minutes and rpg=1 point. We'll average them out per player to find out who missed out the most from the players missing.
> 
> Utah=218 points/8=27.25 efficiency rating
> Nuggets=164/3 (Nene was out, so he has no bearing here)=54.66
> 
> Seems as if the Nuggets missed out on A LOT more than the Jazz did, even though the Jazz were missing more players. Almost TWICE as much efficiency was lost with our players.
> 
> You won 115-104...11 points...11? Not a problem. Big deal.
> 
> I win, you suck.



Your stats don't make any sense at all. Infact, this is probably <strike>the worst post I've ever seen.</strike>

<strike>Stop being a homer</strike>, and stop making up stats that make no sense. You guys lost 3 out of 4 games, and our frontcourt outproduced you in those games, as well as all year.

You can't even deny it, so you pull out things that don't even make a damn lick of sense.

The argument was about the Jazz's frontcourt and the Nuggets frontcourt... not who wasn't playing or what the rest of the team did. Fact is, you can't even back up your claims with stats that even make sense, so stop trying to look like you proved anything, because you didn't.


----------



## cpawfan

unluckyseventeen said:


> Your stats don't make any sense at all. Infact, this is probably the worst post I've ever seen.
> 
> Stop being a homer, and stop making up stats that make no sense. You guys lost 3 out of 4 games, and our frontcourt outproduced you in those games, as well as all year.
> 
> You can't even deny it, so you pull out things that don't even make a damn lick of sense.
> 
> The argument was about the Jazz's frontcourt and the Nuggets frontcourt... not who wasn't playing or what the rest of the team did. Fact is, you can't even back up your claims with stats that even make sense, so stop trying to look like you proved anything, because you didn't.


Just because you don't understand the post that doesn't make it a bad post. In fact, you not understanding is a reflection on you and not the post.


----------



## GNG

darth-horax said:


> So, with these stats, let's have a little fun. *Let's assign each ppg lost=2 points. EAch minutes and rpg=1 point.* We'll average them out per player to find out who missed out the most from the players missing.
> 
> Utah=218 points/8=27.25 efficiency rating
> Nuggets=164/3 (Nene was out, so he has no bearing here)=54.66
> 
> Seems as if the Nuggets missed out on A LOT more than the Jazz did, even though the Jazz were missing more players. Almost TWICE as much efficiency was lost with our players.
> 
> You won 115-104...11 points...11? Not a problem. Big deal.
> 
> I win, you suck.


I'm not a stat head. Those numbers are taken from the efficiency equation though, right?


----------



## cpawfan

Portland's Frontcourt: Yes Zach can put up pretty stat lines, but he also gives up equally pretty stat lines to his opponents. Joel is a very solid defensive center and Magloire can produce 10 & 10 in starters minutes, but he won't be getting those. I'm not sold on Aldridge and Raef is useless. From a pretty numbers stand point, they can't produce as much as Denver from the 4&5 and they certainly don't have more quality depth as Joe Smith is much better than the Blazers' 4th best big man.

Utah's Froncourt: The poster child for pretty stats that don't mean much. Okur and Boozer are poor defenders (and that is being nice) but they sure can put up some pretty stat lines. It is very easy to overrate the pair because of their stat lines.


----------



## darth-horax

If you can't understand that post, I feel sorry for your offspring.

Rawse, yeah, those numbers come from the efficiency equation I believe. 

How can those stats NOT be understood? MPG (minuts per game), PPG (points per game), RPG (rebounds per game) are the essential stats in any game anywhere. Yeah, I know we lost 3 of 4, but what I was showing was that we lost more with our 3 guys being out than you did with your 8. Basic mathematics. I did NOT make those stats up. Check them yourself.

Just because a team beats somebody in a season series does not make them the better team. Heck, case in point, your Jazz beat my Nuggs in the season series, but the Nuggets had a more successful season than the Jazz did.

Try to disprove that.

You said:
_Fact is, you can't even back up your claims with stats that even make sense, so stop trying to look like you proved anything, because you didn't._

I did back up my claims with stats. Just cause you can't understand them doesn't mean they're not valid. 

<strike>It just proves you're a moron.</strike>


----------



## mediocre man

cpawfan said:


> Portland's Frontcourt: Yes Zach can put up pretty stat lines, but he also gives up equally pretty stat lines to his opponents. Joel is a very solid defensive center and Magloire can produce 10 & 10 in starters minutes, but he won't be getting those. I'm not sold on Aldridge and Raef is useless. From a pretty numbers stand point, they can't produce as much as Denver from the 4&5 and they certainly don't have more quality depth as Joe Smith is much better than the Blazers' 4th best big man.
> 
> Utah's Froncourt: The poster child for pretty stats that don't mean much. Okur and Boozer are poor defenders (and that is being nice) but they sure can put up some pretty stat lines. It is very easy to overrate the pair because of their stat lines.




Well since Lafrentz is the Blazers 4th best big man then you are wrong. LaFrentz' numbers are better than Smith's. 

I would say that Joel and Magloire are at least as good as Camby, and zach is better than KMart at this point. LaFrentz is better than Smith, and Melo is light years better than any player on the Blazers team. 

Put Melo on the Blazers and we win a ton of games. He is the one player that makes a difference. 

Przybilla
Magloire
LaFrentz
Randolph
Aldridge 
Carmelo Anthony

is better than 

Camby
Nene
Smith
Carmelo Anthony


----------



## cpawfan

mediocre man said:


> Well since Lafrentz is the Blazers 4th best big man then you are wrong. LaFrentz' numbers are better than Smith's.
> 
> I would say that Joel and Magloire are at least as good as Camby, and zach is better than KMart at this point. LaFrentz is better than Smith, and Melo is light years better than any player on the Blazers team.
> 
> Put Melo on the Blazers and we win a ton of games. He is the one player that makes a difference.


How are LaFrentz's numbers better? Here are last season's per 40 minute stats and PER

RL: 12.6 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 2.3 APG, 0.6 SPG, 1.4 BPG, 12.0 PER
JS: 17.1 PPG, 10.4 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.1 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 16.1 PER

Smith's numbers are clearly better than LaFrentz's

I'll give you Joel and Magloire *combined* equals Camby, but then who are you matching up against Nene?


----------



## mediocre man

cpawfan said:


> How are LaFrentz's numbers better? Here are last season's per 40 minute stats and PER
> 
> RL: 12.6 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 2.3 APG, 0.6 SPG, 1.4 BPG, 12.0 PER
> JS: 17.1 PPG, 10.4 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.1 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 16.1 PER
> 
> Smith's numbers are clearly better than LaFrentz's
> 
> I'll give you Joel and Magloire *combined* equals Camby, but then who are you matching up against Nene?




Per 48 minutes is a bad way to pull stats. If so dan Gadzuric, or however he spells his name would be better than any of the players we are mentioning.


----------



## darth-horax

If Camby stays healthy, he's by far teh best out of the bunch that we are discussing.

I like Magloire, but I'm still not sold on him completely. Przbbiadkhgla...or however he spells it, doesnt' really do much other htan pick and roll and snag a few rebounds. He'd be backing up the starting C on any team in the league.

He's got skills, but not nearly enough to be compared with Camby or even Nene.

People forget that when Nene was starting two years ago over 25 games, he was averaging 17ppg and 12 rpg. 

I hope he can get back to that.


----------



## GNG

mediocre man said:


> Per 48 minutes is a bad way to pull stats. If so dan Gadzuric, or however he spells his name would be better than any of the players we are mentioning.


He was using Per 40 stats, which are more accurate than Per 48s. PER is also a pretty sophisticated means of comparing players.

Using stats that are more complex than basic ppg, rpg, apg, etc., Smith is superior to LaFrentz.



> LaFrentz' numbers are better than Smith's.


After checking out each's player profiles, I don't even see how you could come to _that_ conclusion. Smith averaged more ppg and rpg and shot a higher percentage...while playing fewer minutes.


----------



## darth-horax

I loved Raef when he was with the Nuggs, but man his game has dropped off due to injuries. He's solid, and a fan favorite, but his best years are way behind him.

Still a 3 point threat, though.


----------



## GNG

darth-horax said:


> I loved Raef when he was with the Nuggs, but man his game has dropped off due to injuries. He's solid, and a fan favorite, but his best years are way behind him.
> 
> Still a 3 point threat, though.


His game really has been decimated. He's really nothing more than a spot-up, corner three-point shooter nowadays, and he needs to be assisted on everything in the offense. He also gets blocked more than any 6'11 guy ever should. 

As far as defense goes, his knees have stripped him of any athleticism or quickness he had, and he really has trouble staying in front of his man on defense.

Accurate shot, but yeah, he's a shell of what he was.


----------



## AK-47

So most of you guys will be suprised if the jazz do well next season? Good, I will enjoy your comments at the end of the season.

The jazzs frontcourt chemistry is great (hard to do when not all 3 are playing (only 20 games of the year did they play together as a starting unit). I could care less about boozers and okur defense, as long as you get the W, that's all that matters. And at the end of the season when all 3 were starting, that was the result. The problem last season, was keeping all 3 on the floor at the same time.


----------



## darth-horax

AK-47 said:


> So most of you guys will be suprised if the jazz do well next season? Good, I will enjoy your comments at the end of the season.
> 
> The jazzs frontcourt chemistry is great (hard to do when not all 3 are playing (only 20 games of the year did they play together as a starting unit). I could care less about boozers and okur defense, as long as you get the W, that's all that matters. And at the end of the season when all 3 were starting, that was the result. The problem last season, was keeping all 3 on the floor at the same time.


That's not what I'm saying. I won't be surprised at all if they do well this year, I just don't think they'll do as well as the Nuggets.

I actually DO like the Jazz, but I'm from Colorado, so I roll with the Nuggs.


----------



## AK-47

I like this rivalry between the jazz and the nuggets. 

The jazz and nuggets have a lot in common.

1. Best player plays SF
2. Both have good frontcourts
3. Both cities are at a high altitude.
4. PG's have simular game
5. Having troubles finding that SG
6. same division
7. same conference

ect.

I can't wait for the season and the jazz vs nuggets head to head matchups.


----------



## handclap problematic

pac4eva5 said:


> what ive learned from this thread...
> 
> -portland will win the division because they have a "great" front court, even better than the nuggets.
> -portland's front court is better than the grizzlies (dont know what that has anything to do with)
> -AK47 is the next michael jordan
> -adding amare to the suns is not a big plus because he didnt play all last year
> -webster is equal to melo and will do just fine because hes the same size and actually 10 pounds lighter
> -melo spells his name with 2 "L"s apparently
> -zach randolph is a better low post scorer than melo (which would make randolph argubally the best in the world, no?)
> <strike>-foulzilla lives in denial yet seems to be the only blazer fan with any knowledge about basketball</strike>
> -rawse tried to contribute to the board yet somehow the grizzlies managed to get into this thread LOL!
> 
> 
> keep em coming guys! ive learned a lot so far!
> 
> *Unnecessary. And a couple of the most-knowledgeable posters on the site are Blazer fans.*



Wow, you totally misread everything I, and other Blazer fans wrote. Reading comprehension anyone?

Point 1. I touted Portland's frontcourt, because it is actually pretty good which you can't seem to notice. But, in the same thread I said taht this in no way means the Blazers will win a lot of games. I stated that they definately wouldn't. I have no idea where you came up with this............

Point 2. I mentioned the Grizzlies as a slight friendly barb at Rawse. I am sure he understands that. He questioned the Blazers, and they were good questions, and I tried to answer them a bit, but I also wanted to throw a little friendly fire in there. Maybe you can't understand that.

Point 3. Ok, I didn;t pay attention to that part because that is an argument with somebody else.

Point 4. Also somone else's argument.

Point 5. Who said Martell Webster is equal to Carmello? Certainly not I. I answered Rawse's question about Martell being a front court player, stating that Martell will log minutes at the 3. His weight and hieght comparisons to Carmello were made to back up that he should be capable of playing the 3. In no way did I say he is equal. Again, learn to read.

Point 6. Ok.

Point 7. Zach and Carmello are completely different players. One a SF, and one a PF. Yes Carmello has post game, but in my opinion he does not use it enough. From what I have seen (and this is a lot) he prefers to face up his opponent rather than play with his back to the basket. Now, don't misread me again....he can and does back down opponents, but not even 35 percent of the time. 
And, you claimed that no other team had a low post presence. That is flat out wrong, and completely tinted with some Nugget shades on. Zach Randolph is pretty much the definition of a low post scorer. That is what he does. He has obviously added a jumpshot and some face up skills to his repitoir, however, his damned bread and butter is in the post. You know this. I will make no arguments on whether or not Zach is "better" in the low post than Carmelo, as that is probably going to be a strange and pointless argument. Carmelo is definately a superior player "overall" than Zach. There is no arguing that. 

Point 8. That is just an unclassy thing to say. I won't even respond. 

Point 9. I already mentioned how and why this happened. Tis a joke, a barb....figure it out. 


Prunetang


----------



## GNG

AK-47 said:


> I like this rivalry between the jazz and the nuggets.
> 
> The jazz and nuggets have a lot in common.
> 
> 1. Best player plays SF
> 2. Both have good frontcourts
> 3. Both cities are at a high altitude.
> 4. PG's have simular game
> 5. Having troubles finding that SG
> 6. same division
> 7. same conference
> 
> ect.
> 
> I can't wait for the season and the jazz vs nuggets head to head matchups.


8) Both GMs wasted their cap space by signing guys who haven't helped them take the next step.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa

This discussion is absurd. 

There's no way Utah will contend for the division title. Utah isn't that good, and haven't been good since the big two left. 

Kirilenko is real nice. Boozer is good and so is Okur. Brewer will surprise some people this year. Deron Williams could thrive in any system but Sloan's. 

All that said, the team isn't built to make the playoffs. It's 2006, and Sloan is playing the same system after all these years. You don't make the playoffs these days simply by playing tough defense and moving the ball. You need an elite scoring threat, or two, and an offense. Utah has neither. 

Anyway, I consider Minnesota more of threat. They've at least got the pieces to make a run, even if they don't have the chemistry.


----------



## pac4eva5

mediocre man said:


> Przybilla
> Magloire
> LaFrentz
> Randolph
> Aldridge
> Carmelo Anthony
> 
> is better than
> 
> Camby
> Nene
> Smith
> Carmelo Anthony


HOW THE **** DO U COME UP WITH THIS CRAP??? i feel terrible for blazer fans who actually know what they are talking about... :nonono:

also how can u leave out kmart who when healthy is a better player than ANYBODY in your front court alone!? how can u leave out evans the best rebounder in the NBA!? how can u leave out najera, a player that EVERY team would love to have!? what are u thinking up there?


----------



## pac4eva5

darth-horax said:


> First off, Denver won the division and got into the playoffs while AK 47 was trying to convince his wife it was time for another version of 'one affair per year.' Ok, that was low, but you know what I mean. They were off fishing and visiting Disneyland while Denver was getting stomped by the Clips.
> 
> About your game where you touted your Jazz for beating up on the Nuggets on March 29, you forget that Earl Boykins AND Marcus Camby were both out with injuries. Overall, we played without Boykins, Camby, Hodge, and Nene. You guys played without Gordon Giricek, Kris Humphries, CJ Miles, Greg FReakin' Ostertag, Andre Owens, Milt Freakin' Palacio, Robert Whaley.
> 
> Giricek plays 25 min/game, Humphries plays 10 min/game, CJ Miles play 8, Ostertag played 8, Andre Owens played 9, Palacio played 19, and Whaley played 9.
> 
> Total minutes missed=88
> Total ppg missed=29 ppg.
> Total rpg missed=13 rpg.
> 
> Boykins plays 26, Camby plays 33, Hodge plays 2, and Nene was injured all year.
> 
> Total minutes missed=61
> Total ppg missed=27
> Total rpg missed=15
> 
> So, with these stats, let's have a little fun. Let's assign each ppg lost=2 points. EAch minutes and rpg=1 point. We'll average them out per player to find out who missed out the most from the players missing.
> 
> Utah=218 points/8=27.25 efficiency rating
> Nuggets=164/3 (Nene was out, so he has no bearing here)=54.66
> 
> Seems as if the Nuggets missed out on A LOT more than the Jazz did, even though the Jazz were missing more players. Almost TWICE as much efficiency was lost with our players.
> 
> You won 115-104...11 points...11? Not a problem. Big deal.
> 
> <strike>I win, you suck.</strike>


:laugh:


----------



## pac4eva5

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> This discussion is absurd.
> 
> There's no way Utah will contend for the division title. Utah isn't that good, and haven't been good since the big two left.
> 
> Kirilenko is real nice. Boozer is good and so is Okur. Brewer will surprise some people this year. Deron Williams could thrive in any system but Sloan's.
> 
> All that said, the team isn't built to make the playoffs. It's 2006, and Sloan is playing the same system after all these years. You don't make the playoffs these days simply by playing tough defense and moving the ball. You need an elite scoring threat, or two, and an offense. Utah has neither.
> 
> Anyway, I consider Minnesota more of threat. They've at least got the pieces to make a run, even if they don't have the chemistry.


agreed. im more afraid of seattle for that matter...


----------



## pac4eva5

I like this rivalry between the jazz and the nuggets. 

The jazz and nuggets have a lot in common.

1. Best player plays SF - *advantage: nuggets*
2. Both have good frontcourts - *advantage: nuggets*
3. Both cities are at a high altitude. - *advantage: nuggets*
4. PG's have simular game - *advantage: nuggets*
5. Having troubles finding that SG - *we got some, and bonzi is still an option. advantage: draw*
6. same division - *advantage: nuggets, twolves, sonics*
7. same conference - *advantage: quite a few teams*

ect.

I can't wait for the season and the jazz vs nuggets head to head matchups.


----------



## handclap problematic

I am done with this conversation. 
It was nice for awhile, but I honestly can't take anymore of pac4eva5's blatant homerism and disrespect. I mean, I could take it, if I felt so inclined, however, I have no reason to read such drivel.
For some reason, you must sensationalize every person's comments (only if they are fans of another team), and put anyone down who has a different opinion than you. I don't see the point in sticking around for more of that. I hope you learn some respect someday.

Peace.
Prunetang


----------



## unluckyseventeen

Wow, this board is just absolutely littered with posters who don't care about anything but saying the Nuggets have every advantage over every team in the NBA, no matter what. Even when legitemate statistics are provided, they'll be sure to call you a moron and talk about nothing that makes sense at all, nor is related to the conversation... but they WILL call you a moron, don't forget that part.

Remind me to never visit here again. At least other team forums have posters who can actually realize that their team isn't elite in every category, and will treat visitors with respect rather than calling them a moron right after their completely invalid point.

I'm sorry you have to stay here, Rawse.


----------



## pac4eva5

handclap problematic said:


> I am done with this conversation.
> It was nice for awhile, but I honestly can't take anymore of pac4eva5's blatant homerism and disrespect. I mean, I could take it, if I felt so inclined, however, I have no reason to read such drivel.
> For some reason, you must sensationalize every person's comments (only if they are fans of another team), and put anyone down who has a different opinion than you. I don't see the point in sticking around for more of that. I hope you learn some respect someday.
> 
> Peace.
> Prunetang


Peace.


----------



## pac4eva5

unluckyseventeen said:


> Wow, this board is just absolutely littered with posters who don't care about anything but saying the Nuggets have every advantage over every team in the NBA, no matter what.


nope, just the jazz...



> Even when legitemate statistics are provided, they'll be sure to call you a moron and talk about nothing that makes sense at all, nor is related to the conversation... but they WILL call you a moron, don't forget that part.
> 
> Remind me to never visit here again. At least other team forums have posters who can actually realize that their team isn't elite in every category, and will treat visitors with respect rather than calling them a moron right after their completely invalid point.
> 
> I'm sorry you have to stay here, Rawse.


lol u came in here with an attitude and came out crying. look at ur first post! LOL! darth-horax proved u wrong with "legitemate statistics" and ur only response was, well, nothing :/


----------



## AK-47

I came here seeking peace, but ended up getting bad mouthed and my team talked down when I was trying to add to conversation. What's the point of posting in a board when if you don't say the nuggets are better you get blasted with a bunch of homers that think your team doesn't even stand a chance. Pac, you call everyone homers, I am calling you a hipocrit. So have fun in your unbiased discussions.


----------



## GNG

*Let's keep the rules firmly in mind when it comes to these types of discussion. These aren't the ESPN message boards. If you prefer to attack posters whenever they say something - logical or illogical - that conflicts with your viewpoint - logical or illogical - then this isn't going to be the place for you.

Refer to the board rules HERE if you have any questions. These rules are non-negotiable and have been in place and held in spirit since BBB first began, and the site isn't going to start making exceptions.

It's perfectly fine to disagree with another poster, but do it respectfully and maturely. If you're so confident that your opinion is the gospel, then be prepared to back your opinion up with something more than a one-line dismissal or insult. If you think you know a thing or two about what you're talking about, then try proving it.

I won't accept friendly, knowledgeable posters boycotting the Nuggets forum because of immaturity, blind homerism or jerk behavior. By the same token, I won't tolerate outsiders doing the same or provoking Denver posters into the behavior I've described. Fans of other teams are bound to the same rules in the above link.

Consider this a blanket warning.*


----------



## darth-horax

Blankets are warm.


----------



## mediocre man

AK-47 said:


> I like this rivalry between the jazz and the nuggets.
> 
> The jazz and nuggets have a lot in common.
> 
> 1. Best player plays SF
> 2. Both have good frontcourts
> 3. Both cities are at a high altitude.
> 4. PG's have simular game
> 5. Having troubles finding that SG
> 6. same division
> 7. same conference
> 
> ect.
> 
> I can't wait for the season and the jazz vs nuggets head to head matchups.



Neither has won a championship? That's the one that sticks out to me. I mean the Nuggets had some really great teams back in the 80's, and ditto with the Jazz of the 90's. What's also surprising is that Denver has never even played for a championship in the NBA. That being said with the direction of your respective teams both should be competing in a few years for the top spot. Hopefully the young players in Portland will pan out and we will join you in a few years. 


I still think, barring injuries, that Denver will win the division. Followed by Minnesota, Utah, Settle and then Portland


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa

unluckyseventeen said:


> Wow, this board is just absolutely littered with posters who don't care about anything but saying the Nuggets have every advantage over every team in the NBA, no matter what. Even when legitemate statistics are provided, they'll be sure to call you a moron and talk about nothing that makes sense at all, nor is related to the conversation... but they WILL call you a moron, don't forget that part.
> 
> Remind me to never visit here again. At least other team forums have posters who can actually realize that their team isn't elite in every category, and will treat visitors with respect rather than calling them a moron right after their completely invalid point.
> 
> I'm sorry you have to stay here, Rawse.


Did you read my post? I said nothing of the sort. 

If you don't like the board, just stay away. There's no reason to announce it. You weren't here before, so we could care less if you post or not. 

And this board doesn't "circle the wagons", as you're suggesting. Board? What board? There are 5-8 posters who contribute even on a semi-regular basis - there isn't a wagon to circle, unless it's one of those Radio Flyers from back in the day.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa

mediocre man said:


> Neither has won a championship? That's the one that sticks out to me. I mean the Nuggets had some really great teams back in the 80's, and ditto with the Jazz of the 90's. What's also surprising is that Denver has never even played for a championship in the NBA. That being said with the direction of your respective teams both should be competing in a few years for the top spot. Hopefully the young players in Portland will pan out and we will join you in a few years.
> 
> 
> I still think, barring injuries, that Denver will win the division. Followed by Minnesota, Utah, Settle and then Portland


Portland could surprise some people, because along with a wealth of talent, they actually added quality depth. 

That said, I think they may be the most promising team in the division. There is too much talent on the team for them not to pan out somehow. The Nuggets have talent too, but they're riddled with bad contracts, internal conflicts, and poor on-court balance.


----------



## AK-47

mediocre man said:


> Neither has won a championship? That's the one that sticks out to me. I mean the Nuggets had some really great teams back in the 80's, and ditto with the Jazz of the 90's. What's also surprising is that Denver has never even played for a championship in the NBA. That being said with the direction of your respective teams both should be competing in a few years for the top spot. Hopefully the young players in Portland will pan out and we will join you in a few years.
> 
> 
> I still think, barring injuries, that Denver will win the division. Followed by Minnesota, Utah, Settle and then Portland



We can blame that on jordan can't we. Same with the blazers, you got screwed out of one too. Jordan was just WAY too good. NO team in the Northwest has won a championship, it's really sad.


----------



## GNG

AK-47 said:


> We can blame that on jordan can't we. Same with the blazers, you got screwed out of one too. Jordan was just WAY too good. NO team in the Northwest has won a championship, it's really sad.


Portland won with Bill Walton in 1977, if I remember the year correctly.


----------



## handclap problematic

Rawse said:


> Portland won with Bill Walton in 1977, if I remember the year correctly.



You are correct Rawse. However, you did miss another one. The Sonics also won a championship in the 70's. I am not a Sonic's fan, so I don't know the exact year, but I think it was after the Blazers championship in the late 70's. I am sure one could look it up in a second or two, but, I am not in the mood right now...hehe

Prunetang


Ok, so maybe I did feel like it afterall. 
I just looked it up, and the Sonics championship was in the 78-79 season over the Washington Bullets. The team starred Fred Brown and Jack Sikma and had Lenny Wilkens as the head coach. 

Prunetang


----------



## darth-horax

The Nuggs won an ABA championship in the 70's.

Little known fact, did you know that the first all-star game in the ABA was held in Denver? It was actually the ABA All-Stars vs. the Denver Rockets! The Denver Rockets won...


----------



## AK-47

Both of those were before I was born. I was born in the 80's, not 70's. Ok, no team in the Northwest has won a championship in the last 30 years, there we go.


----------



## darth-horax

You were still right. They won in the ABA, not hte NBA.

I wasn't trying to prove anything, it was just a cool fact.


----------



## pac4eva5

was larry brown head coach?


----------



## darth-horax

I believe so.


----------



## cpawfan

The Nuggets never won the ABA finals


----------



## darth-horax

Well they should have.

[face_laugh]


----------

