# Sonics paper talking Ray allen for Shareef or Elton Brand



## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

link 
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/169932_thie21.html


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> _Does he trade Allen, or extend his contract? Approaching his contractual walk year, Allen will probably seek the maximum contract, but is a 6-foot-4 guard who can be pounded into occasional ineffectiveness worth it? Yet if he's gone for, say, the Clippers' Elton Brand or Shareef Abdur-Rahim of Portland, who keeps those guys from being double-teamed?
> 
> Does he re-sign Barry, 32, for three or four years, or use the money for a big man and let Ridnour take his lumps next year as a starting point guard? Is Ronald Murray capable of effectively succeeding Allen at shooting guard? Will Lewis ever get as good as his salary? Does Vlade Radmanovic, as just another 6-10 jump-shooting small forward, have much value? And will the Charlotte Bobcats please, please, please take James in the expansion draft?
> 
> _


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Allen is only 6'4"?


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Who cares if he's only 6-4??? He's one of the best shooters in the NBA, and one of the top 3 SG's in the league! DA is one inch taller, and it does him a lot of good doesn't it.

I think Portland should offer Rahim, 3 first round picks(if we get Allen, our 1st round pick will be very low next year anyway) and perhaps a filler if they are interested in a player like Qyntel Woods.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Allen is only 6'4"?


He is already proven so height is irrevavent for him.


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## NewAnomaly (Apr 13, 2004)

He's 6-5 205Lbs

and a great shooter.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

I don't care if he is 4'6''..
he can shoot !!
get em :yes:


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

Thats got to be some wishful thinking for Sonics fans no? Possible for them to get Brand? What do you guys think?


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> Thats got to be some wishful thinking for Sonics fans no? Possible for them to get Brand? What do you guys think?


Why Brand when u can have SAR


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

:laugh:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> Thats got to be some wishful thinking for Sonics fans no? Possible for them to get Brand? What do you guys think?


I think the Clippers are too cheap to pay anyone enough money to make up for Brand's salary.

Hoping to get a Clippers' player in trade is almost always wishful thinking. You gotta get them when they're FAs or after they get hurt really bad.

Ed O.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> :laugh:


hey, keep laughing. The whole time it's been the sonics paper mentioning the SAR trade, not the Snoragonian.


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

I was laughing at the "why Brand when you can have SAR" comment, not at the possibility of Seattle getting SAR.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

poor poor sonic,
Now that really is funny..:laugh:


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## CatchNRelease (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> Thats got to be some wishful thinking for Sonics fans no? Possible for them to get Brand? What do you guys think?


The Sonics better get a move on if they're after Brand. He's got a trade restriction because he recently had an offer sheet matched. His contract also carries a trade kicker. I don't know exactly how difficult that makes the trade, but I do know it doesn't make things easier. 

Also, according to RealGM, Brand would have to *agree to* a trade before July 16th.(my emphasis). I'm assuming that date is due to his trade restriction, and (also assuming) he has the right to veto trades in his contract?

Like Ed O said, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket when you're dealing with Sterling.

I like Brand, and I'd take him over Reef if I were you too, but the clock's tick'n for the Sonics.

Go Blazers


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> Who cares if he's only 6-4??? He's one of the best shooters in the NBA,* and one of the top 3 SG's in the league! *




Thats a stretch


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

not really a stretch,didnt he ave 25 ppg and he is the best shooter in the game...top 3 sounds adequate enough.


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

I think if anything happens Brand will be a Sonic. 
I think it's safe to say most would prefer Brand over Reef (not to take anything away from him). 
The Clippers matched Brand's offer sheet to spite Miami (tho i think Miami got the last laugh in using that to tie up the Clips $$ in order to have a better shot at Odom..but that's another story).
So, the Clippers don't really want to pay Brand all that money, they make this trade & let Allen walk next year. Returing them to the Clippers of old.
Mean while, Q leaves LA cus there's no need for a SG of his caliber with Ray Ray around.

What do you think of my take on the situation?


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

I dunno if I see brand leaving the clippers. Maggette and Brand are much better then Maggette and Ray.

Sterling is cheap but I don't see him being that cheap I mean he has a minimum salary to pay, its not like brand makes shaq money.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Draco</b>!
> I dunno if I see brand leaving the clippers. Maggette and Brand are much better then Maggette and Ray.


Remember that the Clips took two 4s in the lottery a couple years back in Ely and Wilcox. Those two may not have shown that much in the regular season, but they could be thought ready to step in due to practice showings. 

STOMP


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

Brand is a better catch then Reef.

I think Reef has more potential, but he may never reach it. 

Brand is achieving about where he can and should. 

I'd take Brand if I were a GM, if I could.

But, I don't see him readily available. I wouldn't trade Allen to Portland. It wouldn't make sense - that takes a team with ONE deficiency and fills it with the best player at that position for their needs.

Play.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

It would require filler for Allen to go to the Clippers: Brand + a bit more in salary...

If Allen were there, do you think Kobe would still be attracted to go there???

I think Kobe's chances of going tere are better if they have Brand there more than Ray Allen. Kobe and Allen play the same position. Although Kobe could easily play the 3.

If you factor in the Kobe speculation.... I doubt it.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> Thats a stretch


Not much of one, if at all. Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady are clearly the best and in a class of their own.

Until last season, I had Pierce next and not all that far off Bryant/McGrady...but his shooting percentage has been weak two straight seasons now, dropping his value.

I think Ray Allen could very well be the third-best shooting guard in the league. Not only is he a beautiful perimeter shooter with a good slashing game, he can also pass and handle very well. And he's a passable defender. That all makes him very valuable.


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

As far as the talk of Brands fairly large contract I read this on another board...anyone care to comment on it?

One of the most interesting notables about any deal involving Elton Brand is the way Miami structured the original contract that the Clippers ended up matching. Because they front loaded the contract and gave Brand the maximum signing bonus allowed, Brand made around $24M from his contract last season although the salary cap hit was closer to $8M.

Thus, Brand received about 3/4 of his contract at the start that has already been paid by Sterling, making his contract relatively cheap here on out.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

According to HH 

That is not correct. It increases from this current year on from $12.05 mil in 2005 to $16.4 mil in 2009

Do you think the Sonics are willing to put out that kind of cash for Brand long term? They can have Rahim at slightly more money now, then resign him next summer for less than Brand, and a length of contrat they want. All the while letting Collison develop to maybe be a starter in a few years. I think Rahim still fits in a bit better.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Not much of one, if at all. Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady are clearly the best and in a class of their own.
> ...


all of that is fine and dandy but he disappears when his teams need him most. Not in my book


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

Not sure if I would want Brand at that rate but would want him over SAR no matter what. I in no way shape or form want SAR on the Sonics.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> Not sure if I would want Brand at that rate but would want him over SAR no matter what. I in no way shape or form want SAR on the Sonics.


Why not he is a nice guy:yes:


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> all of that is fine and dandy but he disappears when his teams need him most. Not in my book


 

Not sure what you mean by "disappears when his team needs him the most". Ray is a good 4th quarter player and won several games this season with clutch shots...


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I think he was making a comment about Pierce (from Minstrel's comments) and not about Allen. I had to read it twice myself.


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

he can't comment on Pierce like that... he averages most points per 4th Quarter for any player in the NBA. thats pretty clutch


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> As far as the talk of Brands fairly large contract I read this on another board...anyone care to comment on it?
> 
> One of the most interesting notables about any deal involving Elton Brand is the way Miami structured the original contract that the Clippers ended up matching. Because they front loaded the contract and gave Brand the maximum signing bonus allowed, Brand made around $24M from his contract last season although the salary cap hit was closer to $8M.
> ...


Any frontloaded money in the form of a signing bonus that Brand got (and the amount is limited by the CBA to 25% of the total salary amount) counts an equal amount against the cap for each year of the contract.

According to my figures, Brand has a salary of $8,350,476 in the first year of his contract. He gets a yearly raise of approximately $835,048 each year (10% of his base salary). But each year, $2,609,524 counts against the cap as the yearly "cost" of his signing bonus. So the first year, $10,960,000 counts against the cap ($8,350,476+$2,609,524). The second year, $11,795,048 counts against the cap ($9,185,524+$2,609,524). Etc., etc.

In the end, I believe he'll be paid $78,285,714 over 6 years. $62,628,571 of this amount will be considered salary and $15,657,143 was his signing bonus (25% of the total salary figure).


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> Not sure if I would want Brand at that rate but would want him over SAR no matter what. I in no way shape or form want SAR on the Sonics.


I have to ask why?

He is easily a top PF in the league. 

He's won about as much as Brand has.

There is no reason a team WOULDN'T want Reef or shouldn't want Reef. 

Play.


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

Reef a top PF in the league makes me laugh, he didnt even put up numbers as good as brand while in the east.


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

Well, he's definately better than average and a whopping better than any PF the poor poor Sonics have. He's also a good guy and any team could use that.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trader that was directed towards Ray Allen. Hes won a couple games in this season in the last quarter, and....................... what did it mean nothing. Ray Allen over the course of his career has never stepped up in the big game or game after game.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> Reef a top PF in the league makes me laugh, he didnt even put up numbers as good as brand while in the east.


Neither did J. Oneal, so what of it?

Brand is easily the third or fourth best PF in the game. Reef is in his league. 

Also, let me just say this "East vs. West" thing is just silly. You go out and play a STYLE of basketball. The players in the east aren't poor, it is the STYLE. 

Play.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> 
> 
> Also, let me just say this "East vs. West" thing is just silly. You go out and play a STYLE of basketball. The players in the east aren't poor, it is the STYLE.
> ...


best post i have read in a while


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

*My final offer*

This would be my final offer and I would let it stand...

Portland sends Rahim $14.625 mil + DA $8.443 mil = $23.06 mil. Portland also sends their 2004 Memphis pick, their 2006 first round pick (lottery protected), and $1 mil cash

Seattle sends Allen $14.625 mil + Booth $5.9 mil = $20.53 mil

Note: Portlands 1st round pick in 2006 will hopefully be very deep at the end of the 1st round, so its not that important then. 

Seattle..... take it or leave it


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

Leave it...come on we send out a superstar SG in Allen and take on the worst starting SG in the league in DA. Sure we give up Booth's crappy contract but at least he is BIG, and we take on a crappy contract in DA. Not to mention a second tier PF in Rahim. Yes SAR is better than any PF we have, but hes not worth Allen.

Rahim is not in Brand's league.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> Yes SAR is better than any PF we have, but hes not worth Allen.
> 
> Rahim is not in Brand's league.


You better call up Art Thiel from the Seattle PI and straighten him out, because he pretty clearly disagreed with you on the latter count and seemed to think the Sonics might disagree with you on the latter.

FWIW, though, I agree Seattle wouldn't take DA back in what would essentially be a SAR-for-Ray trade.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

SAR for Ray works for me.......... not bad at all... I will even trhrow in Q but not Outlaw yet.

pressure... Mt Seattle is about to erupt this summer... players wanting things can really disrupt the old plan of putting together a team... just when yout hinknegotiations are doing fine.... boom!

just ask the Blazers in the Brian Grant and Jermaine era...
we ended up with Kemp and his enourmous contract and Dale Davis for Brian Grant and Jermaine


Allen wants an extension? Barry wants a 4 year deal? Allen wants Barry to be a part of the team right? 

you just never know... wait until July 1... or trade Allen before hand.. bring in Chicago as a 3 way... 

would you want Chandler?

lots of possibilities


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> SAR for Ray works for me.......... not bad at all... I will even trhrow in Q but not Outlaw yet.
> 
> pressure... Mt Seattle is about to erupt this summer... players wanting things can really disrupt the old plan of putting together a team... just when yout hinknegotiations are doing fine.... boom!
> ...


The more I really think about it, the more I could see a SAR for Allen deal going down. I works great for Portland and it does fill a need for Seattle. They would have to give Barry what he wants to keep him, but with SAR on the team I bet they could do some damage.

I wonder if this was to happen if it would be before or after the draft? It sounds like Seattle wants to do something and I don't see them getting Brand for Allen.

The numbers on the contracts are perfect for SAR and Allen to swap, sure sweeten the deal with Woods, but I would have to think that Seattle is really thinking hard about this one.


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