# Bucher says pierce will be dealt



## mediocre man

Just saw from Ric Bucher that Boston will trade Paul Pierce either at the deadline or in the off season. He then said Portland was the one team showing the most interest. I have two questions

1. Why. Is there a problem with him?

2. What do you all think would be a fair deal for Pierce?


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## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> Just saw from Ric Bucher that Boston will trade Paul Pierce either at the deadline or in the off season. He then said Portland was the one team showing the most interest. I have two questions
> 
> 1. Why. Is there a problem with him?
> 
> 2. What do you all think would be a fair deal for Pierce?


1. Yes. He's gotten complacent and has no interest in improving himself as a player at all. He also has been unwilling to put himself in a system that would be extremely successful if he was willing to go for it. Not only would it help the team, but it would get him back to the level that he was at before Walker left us. 

2. From Portland? I don't know exactly. I know that its been reported that Ainge likes Abdur-Rahim and both of your Euros (Khryapa and Monia). I personally like those three, Randolph, and Telfair and I like what I hear about Travis Outlaw. I'm not entirely sure what I'd want/like to do.


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## BackwoodsBum

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> Just saw from Ric Bucher that Boston will trade Paul Pierce either at the deadline or in the off season. He then said Portland was the one team showing the most interest. I have two questions
> 
> 1. Why. Is there a problem with him?
> 
> 2. What do you all think would be a fair deal for Pierce?


1. Attitude and effort. Pierce has incredible talent but he acts like he thinks he's the only player on the team. He absolutely kills the running game when he is on the floor and you can see that the rest of the team is getting tired of watching him dribble around killing time until he can chuck up a bad shot.

2. How about a decent water boy??? Or maybe some cheerleaders! There are some great looking girls from Protland (I used to date a girl from there) so that would be great. Seriously though, Portland has a lot of talent in Randolph, Miles, SAR, etc. I like Randolph but can't see Protland even considering trading him and I think we've got our PF of the future in Big Al. SAR might be available, but if I'm not sold on how he would help the C's. Telfair would be nice, but I don't think Portland would consider it. 

I'll probably get slammed for even considering this, but one idea that I had would be Pierce and Payton for Miles, Stoudamire, and an unprotected 1st round pick. A change in scenery might motivate Pierce to play up to his abilities. Portland would have a much better chance of re-signing Payton than the C's would, and he would be a great tutor for Telfair. Boston would get a great addition to the running game in Miles (who I've always been intrigued by). Ainge loves draft picks and Stoudamire is an expiring contract who could run the show until West and/or Banks is ready. 

There might be better trades out there, but I don't think Pierce's trade value is as high as some people might wish it were right now. I don't think we are going to get a top talent or even a mid-level star and a top prospect, so a young talent, a 1st round pick, and an expiring contract would be enough to make me happy.


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## ZWW

Well this is a complete rebuild if Pierce is dealt. I've agreed with everyones' explanations on what is Pierce's problem/s.

The thing is, what could we realistically get from Portland? I think Randolph is their top player and untouchable, no chance of getting him. What would we do with SAR? Doesn't he split time at SF/PF? I don't want him hindering Perkin's and AJ's production. Telfair is interesting but would Portland part with him? I'd love a center like Ratliff but fat chance there....Seung-Jim would scare away attendance. Miles would be a good player. I don't want any of their PG's except Telfair (Van Exel is a shoot first guy and Stoudamire has been too inconsistent).


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## ZWW

Also, is there a link for this? I tried to find one but no luck.


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## mediocre man

No linK ZWW I saw it on ESPN insiders show last night.

As far as you are concerned Backwodds Bum I'm not one to "slam" anyone, but the unprotected 1st from Portland is way too much. Especially the way things are going. I would think a lottery protected pick should do it. Miles although a player that is improving wouldn't be a deal breaker. And Stoudamire.....I'd drive him to the airport myself. 

Ainge says he likes both our Russians, so I was thinking a trade of SAR and his expiring contract Monya and a lottery protected 1st


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## Truth34

*Hell No*

I also agree with the reasons Paul will be traded, but he is still a super player, one who, when traded, will come up big immediately for the team he is traded to just to spite his old team, ala Shaq.

A Euro, an expiring contract and a protected pick aren't going to do it.

I know you have one of the worst front offices in all of professional sports, but even the Portland brass isn't dumb enough to think Ainge would take that garbage. 

Wherever Paul goes, if he goes, Danny will improve this team. A protection on your pick would pretty much kill this trade before it even got started.

Of course, we're not really interested in getting picks; we have six players 22 or younger. We need players. To me, Telfair is the only guy Ainge might like, along with Monya and Khryapa.

Randolph is a headcase; Miles, too. Stoudamire is a shoot-first PG.

No, how about Telfair, Monya, Rahim and your unprotected first for Pierce and Marcus Banks and a 2nd round pick.

You:

C Ratliff/Przbillya
PF Randolph
SF Miles
SG Pierce
PG Van Exel/Stoudamire/Banks

Us:

C LaFrentz
PF Abdur-Rahim
SF Welsch
SG Davis/Tony Allen
PG Payton/Telfair/West


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## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> No linK ZWW I saw it on ESPN insiders show last night.
> 
> As far as you are concerned Backwodds Bum I'm not one to "slam" anyone, but the unprotected 1st from Portland is way too much. Especially the way things are going. I would think a lottery protected pick should do it. Miles although a player that is improving wouldn't be a deal breaker. And Stoudamire.....I'd drive him to the airport myself.
> 
> Ainge says he likes both our Russians, so I was thinking a trade of SAR and his expiring contract Monya and a lottery protected 1st


I know I previously said that I like SAR, but he cannot be the guy on a team and we also would never deal Pierce for an expiring.

I think if Portland gets Pierce, there will be a three way deal where the third team takes on one of your expirings (SAR or Stoudamire) and sends a player to Boston. I saw one proposed somewhere involving New Orleans with Baron Davis coming to Boston, which I do like the idea of.


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## Schilly

What if Portland arranged a 3 team deal tha landed Baron Davis in Boston?


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## Truth34

*Agoo*

Why not deal Pierce for an expiring?

We get out from under Pierce's deal, get a promising fast break PG of the future, Monya, maybe Reef stays, maybe not.

We don't need him to be "the man," either. We have Ricky Davis, LaFrentz, Payton and others.

I hate the idea of Baron Davis. If you think Paul's attitude is bad......

Plus, he is a massive injury problem. No way on Baron.

Please see my Pierce/Banks/2nd for Shareef/Monya/Telfair/1st


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## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> What if Portland arranged a 3 team deal tha landed Baron Davis in Boston?


Might be interesting depending on how it all went. The only problem with Davis being that I really don't think he's a winning player. I'm also not entirely sold that he'd be happy here either.


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## Truth34

*We'll take Telfair*

Paul Pierce
Marcus Banks
2nd rounder

for 

Shareef-Abdur Rahim
Sebastian Telfair
Sergei Monya
unprotected 1st rounder


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## aquaitious

*Re: Hell No*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> No, how about Telfair, Monya, Rahim and your unprotected first for Pierce and Marcus Banks and a 2nd round pick.


You'll never get 3 young guys for Pierce. But if you could, sub in Payton for Banks.

Reef
Randolph
Miles
Pierce
Payton/NVE/Stoudemire 

is a playoff team, so if it's protected or not, we'll still be picking in the teens, early 20's.


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## Truth34

*I don't think you get it*

If you have Telfair, and West, why do you need Banks?

You don't.

You might make that deal to make Gary happy, but Gary's also an expiring deal.

No, stick to the original deal. 

And even with Paul, that team is so dysfunctional, they might not make it from where they are right now.


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## mediocre man

I don't really think Telfair will be traded, so you might as well forget about him. Both NVE and Stoudamire's contrats end after this year and Telfair will take over the starting job next year under a new coach.

The other thing I was thinking is what if Portland traded 2 epiring contrats for Pierce and Raef or whomever. You say the Celtics have 6 players 22 or younger, so this would give them the cap space to sign an all-star caliber free agent to help blend your team together.


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## Truth34

*OK, I guess Paul won't be going to Portland*

But you guys have a nice nucleus with Telfair....Randolph....

The only free agents this year are shooting guards. So unless you want to deal Telfair, enjoy your second straight season in the lottery.


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## whiterhino

I LOVE the idea of Telfair and Monia. Telfair is going to be a very good PG in about 2 more years. Monia is also going to be VERY good and dropped in the lottery only because he wasn't gonna come to the NBA this season which he didn't. Khryapa I also like but I'd rather have Monia. Portland actually has a lot of young talent in Telfair, Monia, Khryapa, Outlaw, and Seung-Jin. If we gave them Pierce and a young guy back in Banks, it's not entirely out of the question we could pry 3 of those 5 guys from them because Peirce is an All-Star, even if we are annoyed with him and Banks is still young so they'd give us 3 youngs but get one back so they'd still have 3 and their draft pick this season. If I had my picks I'd take Telfair, Monia, and Outlaw (only because Khryapa plays basically the same position as Monia) but I'd take Khryapa instead of Outlaw too. If we are completely rebuilding then we take the young guys.
Backwards Bum I'm not trying to sound like a wise *** but I know that's how it's gonna sound, but if Danny traded Pierce for the garbage of Miles and Stoudemire and a pick I'd burn all my Celtics memorabelia on his front lawn. Stoudemire is a WASTE, the Blazers fans HATE him for a reason. Miles doesn't get is and is also a waste and I don't care if he played better for 10 games before getting injured. We don't need another pick either we have 2 already and we had 3 last year and 2 the year before! 
If we deal Peirce for anything but another star or a group of young prospects I'll have a fit. 
On Baron Davis, I would have loved him last year. Now I think he's a whiner and the most injury prone guy in the league, no thanx. Has he EVER played more than 20 games without an injury???


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## Kmurph

Telfair isn't getting traded. Not happening, if that is a deal breaker for Pierce, then so be it.

SAR and Monia is a good start.

I do think POR would consider dealing Theo.

But what does BOS want? young players and capsapce or some veteran players (like SAR and Theo)?

Sar, Theo & Monia for Pierce & LaFrentz

or

SAR, Damon, Monia and future 1st for Pierce and LaFrentz.


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## Premier

Realistically, Shareef Adur-Rahim and Damon Stoudamire (plus filler: Richie Frahm) for Paul Pierce, Michael Stewart, Jiri Welsch, and Gary Payton. Let's get young and good.

Portland gets Pierce (and Welsch) for nothing (really that's what expiring contracts are). We save 15.5M and we are under the cap for next season (32.5M). 

Rebuilding. 

Edit: To make the deal better for us, we could send Lafrentz instead of Stewart and Welsch. Payton needs to go to give minutes to Banks. I'll trade a good future for winning right now. Hey, maybe we could get Deron Williams or Johan Petro.


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## Truth34

*Wow*



> Originally posted by *Celts11*!
> Realistically, Shareef Adur-Rahim and Damon Stoudamire (plus filler: Richie Frahm) for Paul Pierce, Michael Stewart, Jiri Welsch, and Gary Payton. Let's get young and good.


Brilliant.


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## Premier

*Re: Wow*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> Brilliant.


You don't think I'm serious. Pierce isn't bringing in 17 and until we find a star that can, we should move our valuable pieces for youth, picks, and contracts. Telfair's young and good. I say he has more value than Pierce.


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## BostonBasketball

Pierce for monya, telfair and 1st round ISN'T happening. If the celtics could get that the deal would have been done already to get telfair and monya into boston right away. Also, I don't want SAR, he has a huge contract and much like Pierce, isn't playing up to his potential, plus he's getting old. So my vote is no there. Honestly, I dont really like anything the blazer have to offer except telfair and a draft pick.


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## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>BostonBasketball</b>!
> 
> Also, I don't want SAR, he has a huge contract and much like Pierce, isn't playing up to his potential, plus he's getting old. So my vote is no there.


SAR: Expiring
Stoudamire: Expiring
NVE: Expiring
Ratliff: Expiring?
Woods: Expiring
Monia: Young and good.
Telfair: Young and good.


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## Truth34

*Telfair could be good*

You guys act like Telfair is John Stockton or something. Yes, he has potential. He could be a good PG in the league. He could also be a total BUST, and the Blazers would look stupid for passing on Al Jefferson and others.

But yes, I like him like all of you do.

If Telfair isn't in this deal, the Celtics don't deal with Portland. That should be pretty clear to everyone.

There are other teams in the league that could be interested in Pierce.


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## mediocre man

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> SAR: Expiring
> Stoudamire: Expiring
> NVE: Expiring
> Ratliff: Expiring?
> Woods: Expiring
> Monia: Young and good.
> Telfair: Young and good.



Allow me to shed some light on this.

SAR: Expiring and only 28
Damon: Expiring
NVE: Expiring
Ratliff: Not expiring. Portland signed him to a 3 year extention this past off season worth 10 mil per.
Woods: Expiring
Monya: Young and has potential
Telfair: Young with loads of potential. The Blazers won't trade him for Pierce. he is their PG of the future, so unless they get a young PG that they like back they won't do it.


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## aquaitious

*Re: I don't think you get it*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> If you have Telfair, and West, why do you need Banks?
> 
> You don't.
> 
> You might make that deal to make Gary happy, but Gary's also an expiring deal.
> 
> No, stick to the original deal.
> 
> And even with Paul, that team is so dysfunctional, they might not make it from where they are right now.


Yeah, I don't get it, I forgot that West is Cousy here.  

Right now West is nothing but a "potential" stamp.


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## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>BostonBasketball</b>!
> Pierce for monya, telfair and 1st round ISN'T happening. If the celtics could get that the deal would have been done already to get telfair and monya into boston right away. Also, I don't want SAR, he has a huge contract and much like Pierce, isn't playing up to his potential, plus he's getting old. So my vote is no there. Honestly, I dont really like anything the blazer have to offer except telfair and a draft pick.


Shareef xpires after this season and just turned 28. Basically he is cap relief, or he could be resigned at a reduced rate, while mentoring Jefferson.


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## Kmurph

Yeah, that is why IMO a SAR, NVE (or Damon), Monia and a future 1st (lotto protect for 2005) for LaFrentz & Pierce could make some sense.

Both SAR and NVE (or Damon) expire, along with Payton, Stewart & Gugliotta. That potentially could leave (if salary cap stays at $43.8 mil) with around $12-13 million in space less 2 05' draft picks and Monia (around $3-4 mil in total) and that nets them out (roughly) around $10 million under the cap. 

That is enough for one premier FA IMO. PLUS they have TWO (BOS & LAL) 1st round picks this year and TWO (BOS & POR) 1st round picks NEXT year AND a young SG prospect in Monia.

SO in the next two years they could add one premier\upper tier FA, FOUR 1st round draft picks and Monia, to a core of young players in Ricky Davis, Al Jefferson, Jiri Welsch, Marcus Banks?, Tony Allen, Delonte West & Kendrick Perkins.

If BOS is in rebuilding mode, that is a pretty good blueprint IMO


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## BackwoodsBum

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> As far as you are concerned Backwodds Bum I'm not one to "slam" anyone, but the unprotected 1st from Portland is way too much. Especially the way things are going. I would think a lottery protected pick should do it. Miles although a player that is improving wouldn't be a deal breaker. And Stoudamire.....I'd drive him to the airport myself.


No problem mediocre man, I actually expected to get slammed by some Celtic fans who still think that Pierce is worth much more  

I feel the same way about Pierce that you do about Stoudamire. Basically we'd be swapping a headcase with lots of money owed to him for a headcase with an expiring contract IMHO. This trade wasn't anything I put a lot of thought into, just tossing out some names. Portland has a lot of expiring contracts that would be nice, but attracting a veteran free agent hasn't been easy for the C's so I don't know how much value Ainge would put on cap space. In reality, I think any trade that doesn't involve Telfair will require a third team.


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## agoo

I think we have to analyze what we have and where we can safely bet they'll fit. For example, I still think that Marcus Banks can get to the Baron Davis level, but the safe bet is a Bobby Jackson or Darrell Armstrong type of energy guy off the bench. Looking at the guys we have, our young keepers are Al Jefferson, Ricky Davis, Tony Allen, Delonte West, and Kendrick Perkins. Our older keepers/guys we're stuck with, are Raef LaFrentz and Mark Blount. I think another guy who sticks is Justin Reed. Marcus Banks and Jiri Welsch are guys that aren't exactly keepers, but we'd be happy to retain. That gives us this:

Starting:
C--Perkins
PF-Jefferson
SF-
SG-Allen
PG-

Bench:
C--Blount
PF-LaFrentz
SF-Welsch
SG-Davis (a born sixth man)
PG-West

11-Banks
12-Reed

I definately think we could do worse than to have Jiri starting at SF or have either West or Banks in a starting role. Looking at that, we'd need to pick up a point guard and a small forward in any deal where Pierce moves. Obviously Telfair would be a terrific pick up at point guard, but between skills and addidas, he might be Portland's one untouchable player. Travis Outlaw could be a good small forward, but I think we'd need someone who can run, defend, and hit a consistent jumpshot. I don't know enough about Outlaw's shooting ability to say he's that guy, but he could be. I think any Pierce to Portland deal has a third team involved that would take SAR or another expiring and give up a young SF or a young but experienced PG.


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## Richie Rich

I don't care how good Telfair is going to be, he isn't yet. Pierce for Telfair. Arrre you insane? I don't care how much you have soured on Pierce, but an 'all-star caliber player' for a rook who hasn't "proven" anything yet would make not one bit of sense. Obviously it could never happen b/c of contracts, only ina bigger deal. Good thing because IF it was one for one that would downright HORRID


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## Premier

> Originally posted by *Richie Rich*!
> 
> I don't care how good Telfair is going to be, he isn't yet. Pierce for Telfair. Arrre you insane? I don't care how much you have soured on Pierce, but an 'all-star caliber player' for a rook who hasn't "proven" anything yet would make not one bit of sense. Obviously it could never happen b/c of contracts, only ina bigger deal. Good thing because IF it was one for one that would downright HORRID


Yeah, competing for the eighth seed is so interesting each and every year.  . Pierce isn't working. We should trade him when he has value. Give me someone who has less value, but potential to be a top five point guard. I don't care whether Pierce is an all-star or not. That's an individual accomplishment. What has he done for a championship. I don't want a player he doesn't give it all each and every night. Give me potential, expiring contracts, and picks.

But if you are happy with "average", go ahead. Praise Pierce for our record. Congratulate Doc Rivers on every win. Worship Ainge's roster (he's capable and creative enough for a better roster; I believe Ainge could pull of some very good trades, so I'm not saying I hate him). Mediocre will never amount to anything, but the eighth seed.

By the way, agoo, Ricky Davis is only a sixth man in this lineup because our first unit it reluctant to run. In your "future" lineup, Ricky would certainly be starting. All we need is a great point guard. Banks is your sixth man.


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## Al Jefferson

Pierce must be hearing these rumors himself.
Cause he has turned it on here as of late.
Call me crazy... But he's filled the stat sheets up over the last 4-5 games.

PdP


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## RedHot&Rolling

In my book.....Telfair is un-touchable. But please consider others on our roster - we have a high pick in '05, Monia, Khryapa, Outlaw as well as expiring deals NVE, Damon and SAR. 

There has to be a way to satisfy you Celtic fans? Isn't there?

'05 Pick
SAR
Outlaw 

for

Pierce
Welsh


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by *Celts11*!
> 
> Yeah, competing for the eighth seed is so interesting each and every year.  . Pierce isn't working. We should trade him when he has value. Give me someone who has less value, but potential to be a top five point guard. I don't care whether Pierce is an all-star or not. That's an individual accomplishment. What has he done for a championship. I don't want a player he doesn't give it all each and every night. Give me potential, expiring contracts, and picks.
> 
> But if you are happy with "average", go ahead. Praise Pierce for our record. Congratulate Doc Rivers on every win. Worship Ainge's roster (he's capable and creative enough for a better roster; I believe Ainge could pull of some very good trades, so I'm not saying I hate him). Mediocre will never amount to anything, but the eighth seed.
> 
> By the way, agoo, Ricky Davis is only a sixth man in this lineup because our first unit it reluctant to run. In your "future" lineup, Ricky would certainly be starting. All we need is a great point guard. Banks is your sixth man.


i think u need to take a chill pill first b/c u obviously have issues when ppL. disagree w/ u. You dont trade pierce for telfair its plain and simple. I stopped reading your post when u started babbling and cursing and claiming i am happy w/ this 'team' which i never sed. get real.


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## ZWW

Pierce being traded for one player says "Boston got hosed bigtime" all over it.


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## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> By the way, agoo, Ricky Davis is only a sixth man in this lineup because our first unit it reluctant to run. In your "future" lineup, Ricky would certainly be starting. All we need is a great point guard. Banks is your sixth man.


Does the phrase, "It doesn't matter who starts game, it only matters who finishes them" mean anything to you? Ricky will still be getting a significant portion of the minutes and would be on the court to finish games. I really think that Ricky is at a point in his personal growth that he is willing to accept the sixth man position. I think he's realized that his minutes aren't dwindling and that he's still on the floor to finish games.


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## Truth34

*Blazers fans, forget it*

You seem to have a nice thing going over there with your PGs scoring all your points and Przbilla pulling down the boards.

We'll keep Pierce.

As for Celts 11, you are misrepresenting the Truth somewhat, pardon the pun.

"Competing for the 8th spot every year?" Last year was the first time we were in the 8th spot...and I'll give them a pass considering Raef was hurt all year, the coach quit, etc.

What has Paul done toward a championship? Well, three years ago when we were in ECF, he led the charge. When we knocked out the Pacers two years ago, he was huge. So don't tell me this guy hasn't brought it. He may not run to your liking, but this guy has had more teeth knocked out, been hammered, and hustled and done a lot. He is still adjusting after four years of Obieball. This style of play is foreign to him.

As for Telfair, I can't stop laughing about this. I merely suggested that was the only way Pierce was going to Portland. Portland fans, beggars can't be choosers. Your GM has destroyed that franchise. 

Adidas? Maybe the fact that a shoe deal has somehow factored in to your personnel decisions might explain how a franchise that made the playoffs 22 years in a row is now seven games below .500!

We may meet you in Secaucus (cuz you're definitely going to the lottery), but if we do, it will be with a brighter future). Our GM is smart, and our kids can play.


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## Big John

[strike]I think Blazer fans have completely lost touch with reality, and the more Portland keeps losing, the more out of touch they become.[/strike]

There is NO DEAL for Pierce unless Miles, Telfair and one of the young Russians come back, along with an expiring contract (it doesn't matter which one, since that player will simply be allowed to walk at the end of the year).

If Portland doesn't want to do that, then screw them. We'll either keep Pierce or find a better deal elsewhere. If the Blazers think that they can foist off crap like Outlaw and Woods on other teams, they're crazy. Those two guys stink worse than one of Qyntel's dead pit bulls.

I can see why they want to keep Telfair, but he's several years away. He has to learn to play defense up to NBA standards. Until he's ready, Portland will be the second coming of the Los Angeles Clippers. Glad I don't have to watch them.

Lets avoid attacking fan bases of other teams. ---agoo


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## mediocre man

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> I think Blazer fans have completely lost touch with reality, and the more Portland keeps losing, the more out of touch they become.
> 
> There is NO DEAL for Pierce unless Miles, Telfair and one of the young Russians come back, along with an expiring contract (it doesn't matter which one, since that player will simply be allowed to walk at the end of the year).
> 
> If Portland doesn't want to do that, then screw them. We'll either keep Pierce or find a better deal elsewhere. If the Blazers think that they can foist off crap like Outlaw and Woods on other teams, they're crazy. Those two guys stink worse than one of Qyntel's dead pit bulls.
> 
> I can see why they want to keep Telfair, but he's several years away. He has to learn to play defense up to NBA standards. Until he's ready, Portland will be the second coming of the Los Angeles Clippers. Glad I don't have to watch them.




You people kill me. Portland has missed the playoffs a grand total of 1 year, but by all means keep comparing us to the Clippers.....Idiot 

Secondly you say that telfair is years away. this is false. He is months away. He is by far a better defensive player than you give him credit for. Yu say you don't watch the Blazers so how would you even know. 

Outlaw is anything but crap. He is an athletic freak with an above average jumper. He is only 19 and all he needs is playing time. Woods on the other hand is crap and will never amount to anything. 

You also say Blazer fans are dilusional. This I can't argue with. At least some of them are. But like Blazer fans I'm sure every team in the league overvalues their own players. 

Trading for Paul Pierce himself would cost the Blazers a little more that if they traded for Paul Pierce and an ugly contract. That's why I believe it could get done without Telfair. SAR, Miles, our pick this year or next, one or both of the Russians, Ratliff, Damon, NVE and their expiring contracts, Outlaw, even Randolph if he could be traded , whoever. As long as the Blazers take Raef, Vin Baker, or some other horrible contract too.


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## mediocre man

*Re: Blazers fans, forget it*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> You seem to have a nice thing going over there with your PGs scoring all your points and Przbilla pulling down the boards.
> 
> We'll keep Pierce.
> 
> As for Celts 11, you are misrepresenting the Truth somewhat, pardon the pun.
> 
> "Competing for the 8th spot every year?" Last year was the first time we were in the 8th spot...and I'll give them a pass considering Raef was hurt all year, the coach quit, etc.
> 
> What has Paul done toward a championship? Well, three years ago when we were in ECF, he led the charge. When we knocked out the Pacers two years ago, he was huge. So don't tell me this guy hasn't brought it. He may not run to your liking, but this guy has had more teeth knocked out, been hammered, and hustled and done a lot. He is still adjusting after four years of Obieball. This style of play is foreign to him.
> 
> As for Telfair, I can't stop laughing about this. I merely suggested that was the only way Pierce was going to Portland. Portland fans, beggars can't be choosers. Your GM has destroyed that franchise.
> 
> Adidas? Maybe the fact that a shoe deal has somehow factored in to your personnel decisions might explain how a franchise that made the playoffs 22 years in a row is now seven games below .500!
> 
> We may meet you in Secaucus (cuz you're definitely going to the lottery), but if we do, it will be with a brighter future). Our GM is smart, and our kids can play.



Give me a break on the beggars can't be choosers line. Ric Bucher reported that BOSTON wanted to trade Pierce, not the Portland was looking to aquire him. Mearly that Portland would be interested in him.


As for you 22 years in the playoffs slam you might want to consider that losing 7 in a row might have a little to do with SAR, Miles and Randolph all being injured. Do me a favor. Take your top 3 scorers off your team and tell me how they would do on a 6 game road trip to the other side of the country.


----------



## Richie Rich

what source (tv or paper or internet) did u hear bucher SEy this on, jus curious


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## Truth34

*I'm not disputing Danny might shop him*

But you offered Randolph for him before the season, so don't tell me Portland hasn't been eyeing him.

The Celtics said no then, and wouldn't be interested without Telfair in a package.

Your fans are delusional; and I agree with Big John in all respects.

Your description of Outlaw sounds an awful lot like Kedrick Brown. 

Portland has great fans; if only they had a front office.


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## whiterhino

I've been on the Blazer board talking about this, they think I'm an a** because I told them they are not getting Pierce for nothing but loser players, jail bail guys, and expiring deals. I told them if Telfair is not on the table then we take a russian, and draft pick, and expiring deal and possibly another young guy...they said yeah right. Sorry you don't get a guy they admit is better than anyone currently on their roster for total garbage.
I even think some on this board are WAY over-valuing expiring contracts. We would still not have a lot of cap room people, no matter what AND even more importantly, this years free agent group is pretty lousy sans Michael Redd but we can't afford him. We are REBUILDING but we already have young guys in place, what we need is a couple more good prospects and maybe a good leader (NO ONE ON THE BLAZERS FITS THAT BILL). 
Sergei Monya is going to be very good, any deal not involving Telfair involves Monya whether the Blazer fans want to deal with it or not. 
They also, you'll find this funny, told me they are way ahead of us in the rebuilding plan:laugh: Hmmm, lets see they have Telfair who gets 10 mpg if he's lucky. Monya who's not in the country yet. Khryapa who has not played an NBA game yet he's been injured all year. Outlaw who gets 5mpg sometimes if he's lucky. and Seung-Jin who got 8 minutes last night which I think was his 2nd time ever getting minutes. 
We have Al Jefferson, plays about 20mpg last night and already has 3 double doubles this year and would get one every night if and when he replaces Mark Blount in the starting lineup which is not too far away.
Kendrick Perkins who is starting to get at least 10mpg and racking up rebounds like a King.
Tony Allen who gets about 10mpg but is capable of probably starting at this point.
Delonte West who's been injured all year but comes off IL this weekend and will surely be playing quite a bit.
Marcus Banks who plays about 15 mpg sometimes more.
Jiri Welsch who starts and gets 25-30 mpg.


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## Truth34

*We can't change the past, but....*

Man, I wish Ricky had taken that shot instead of passing the ball with one second left on the shot clock in Portland.


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## Premier

> Originally posted by *agoo101284*!
> 
> Does the phrase, "It doesn't matter who starts game, it only matters who finishes them" mean anything to you? Ricky will still be getting a significant portion of the minutes and would be on the court to finish games. I really think that Ricky is at a point in his personal growth that he is willing to accept the sixth man position. I think he's realized that his minutes aren't dwindling and that he's still on the floor to finish games.


Yes I know Ricky would be getting significant minutes, but he could be much more valuable in a running lineup along with Tony Allen and our two, young big-men. He works better in that first unit and assuming that unit starts, he would play with them. I was assuming the Ricky would mostly play in the second unit, but yes, I know understand your post. 

Oh and Truth, "Obieball" should really be called "Paulball" as Big John put it last year. The offense was designed for him and don't say that it was for Walker too because before Obie resigned, the had the same offense. If Pierce can only come close to the *Eastern Confrence* finals once with an offense designed around him, another star, and a good complimentary cast, he is not the sort of guy capable of winning a championship unless he's playing alongside a better player (Pierce is a second option on a great team). 

The thing that really gets me about Pierce is his lack of hustle and his choice to be lazy and stupid during games where he needs to be the "leader". What does it say to rooks when their "captain" is slacking off? If I was the coach, I'd start Tony Allen until Pierce wisens up and tank the season. If Pierce shows a change of attitude and performance, I would easily welcome him back, but until then he should be traded.

The only deal that works and I would do is:

Shareef Adur-Rahim
Nick Van Exel (or Damon Stoudamire; really the same thing)
A protected first-round pick
Viktor Khryapa (they won't give up Monia)

for 

Paul Pierce
Raef Lafrentz
Michael Stewart
Jiri Welsch


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## Truth34

*No Monya, No Telfair, No Deal*

And the Blazers can keep slipping into the abyss....


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> OT: Richie Rich, sorry if I came off as an idiot yesterday. I had a "bad" day.


no prob man.


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## whiterhino

*Re: No Monya, No Telfair, No Deal*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> And the Blazers can keep slipping into the abyss....


I agree on that, I posted that on the Blazers board if Telfair is not on the table fine but then Monia and a pick HAVE to be included and then it works.


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## agoo

Lets try to get this back to a civil debate here please. ---agoo 

That means you Celtic fans.


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## agoo

Remember when this was about trading Paul Pierce to the Blazers? That was fun. 

I'd disagree that Portland is ahead of us in our rebuilding, but when you consider what they were trying to do, they're doing quite well in their process.  They weren't just remaking a roster, they were trying to change the character and the environment about the team. We were just trying to add talent.

I understand the desire to add Telfair, but lets think about this from the Celtics perspective. Ainge said that West was the number two PG on his list. I believe he also said that Devin Harris was first. Now you can say that it was just draft day bull crap, but you generally don't continue to push the draft day bull in the media like the Celtics higher ups have. They really think that West is going to be an all-star point guard in the league. If you already have a young all-star point guard, why go get Telfair, who you don't think is as good as West? No reason at all.

So what is Ainge thinking about this team? If I had to guess, he's thinking this is our core:

Starting:
C--Perkins
PF-Jefferson
SF-Pierce
SG-Allen
PG-West

Bench:
C--
PF-LaFrentz
SF-
SG-Davis
PG-Banks

11-Reed
12-Blount (and I really used to like this guy)

So if Pierce goes, what does Ainge get to fill his perceived gaps? Travis Outlaw and a Russian (Monia preferably). To fill in the salary, what do you get that keeps you a playoff team this year? I like Ratliff at center and Abdur Rahim at forward.

Now, would I want to take in Ratliff or Abdur Rahim at the expense of playing time for Perkins, Jefferson, Welsch, and Allen, just to fill in the gap with the second SF/SG? I don't think so. Particularly when you consider our first rounder and the Lakers first that we have coming to us at some point over the next few seasons.

I think I'd rather sit on Pierce this season, see how he finishes the year. I think he's starting to move in the right direction for the team. Its going to be slow as he's been playing one way for the duration of his six year career. If Pierce can get into our offense, there won't be a player we can acquire who will help us more. Lets wait out the season before we rush into a deal with Portland. If a good deal comes along, then lets take it. I'm just not sure that Portland has it.


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## mediocre man

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Remember when this was about trading Paul Pierce to the Blazers? That was fun.
> 
> I'd disagree that Portland is ahead of us in our rebuilding, but when you consider what they were trying to do, they're doing quite well in their process. They weren't just remaking a roster, they were trying to change the character and the environment about the team. We were just trying to add talent.
> 
> I understand the desire to add Telfair, but lets think about this from the Celtics perspective. Ainge said that West was the number two PG on his list. I believe he also said that Devin Harris was first. Now you can say that it was just draft day bull crap, but you generally don't continue to push the draft day bull in the media like the Celtics higher ups have. They really think that West is going to be an all-star point guard in the league. If you already have a young all-star point guard, why go get Telfair, who you don't think is as good as West? No reason at all.
> 
> So what is Ainge thinking about this team? If I had to guess, he's thinking this is our core:
> 
> Starting:
> C--Perkins
> PF-Jefferson
> SF-Pierce
> SG-Allen
> PG-West
> 
> Bench:
> C--
> PF-LaFrentz
> SF-
> SG-Davis
> PG-Banks
> 
> 11-Reed
> 12-Blount (and I really used to like this guy)
> 
> So if Pierce goes, what does Ainge get to fill his perceived gaps? Travis Outlaw and a Russian (Monia preferably). To fill in the salary, what do you get that keeps you a playoff team this year? I like Ratliff at center and Abdur Rahim at forward.
> 
> Now, would I want to take in Ratliff or Abdur Rahim at the expense of playing time for Perkins, Jefferson, Welsch, and Allen, just to fill in the gap with the second SF/SG? I don't think so. Particularly when you consider our first rounder and the Lakers first that we have coming to us at some point over the next few seasons.
> 
> I think I'd rather sit on Pierce this season, see how he finishes the year. I think he's starting to move in the right direction for the team. Its going to be slow as he's been playing one way for the duration of his six year career. If Pierce can get into our offense, there won't be a player we can acquire who will help us more. Lets wait out the season before we rush into a deal with Portland. If a good deal comes along, then lets take it. I'm just not sure that Portland has it.



Great points all around. The only thing I would take issue with is that Portland doesn't have what you'd want. I think they do, I just think they don't want to part with it for Pierce. Portland has a pretty good young core in Telfair, Monya, Khryapa, Outlaw, Miles, Randolph and surpizingly Joel Przybilla. Not to mention an exremely high draft pick this coming year. Trading for Piere would be cool, but not at the expense of breaking up our future.


----------



## Big John

The problem Portland has, quite simply, is that they overpaid for Randolph, overpaid for Ratliff, overpaid for Derek Anderson and probably overpaid for Patterson. So, even after all three of their big contracts expire (SAR, Stoudamire, Van Exel), they wont have enough cap space to be a major player in the FA market in 2005.

Their other big problem is how to turn those expiring deals into useful assets going forward. For that, they have to look at teams like NY, Philly, Houston, etc. that are looking for cap space. Those teams have some good players, but they are all on long-term deals. If Portland wants something to show for Van Exel, Stoudamire and SAR, they are going to have to take back some veteran players with longer contracts.

Bottom line: they are probably going to be really terrible for the next 2-3 years and the gate will suffer. One alternative to keep them at least respectable while rebuilding is to acquire a player like Pierce, and build around that player and Zach Randolph. But no one is going to hand them a player of that caliber for a bargain basement price. At minimum they will have to give up a couple of promising young players plus a pick. 

Boston is under no compulsion to deal Pierce, because the C's are well below the luxury tax threshhold and had a great draft in 2004. Their problem is that they have more good young players than they can find minutes for. Also, Pierce is good enough so that if word gets out that he's on the block, the Celtics will have a number of reasonable offers. Ainge has all the bargaining power here, and if Nash doesn't like it, he can shop his expiring deals elsewhere.


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## jazzy1

I have a hard time uderstanding Celtics fans discontent with the only player on your team who seems to ache about losing. Sure Pierce's attitude has soured but wouldn't yours if you were on a team that was building and competing for the conference title only 2 trade a main cog and start on a process of aquiring young talent and veterans that don't fit together at all. 

The Celts have one of the mosyt terribly contructed rosters in the league, they have some very good young talent but also have some real loafers when it comes to veterans. 

Very few good chemistry guys and too many I need the ball guys. 

They really should be looking to build their team like the Bulls with an identity in mind. 

Pierce is one of the best 15 players in this league and trading him for some more disgruntled Vets make no sense. 

Time to get a couple young players and a couple 1st rd picks if you can. 

I really don't blame Pierce at all. He's trapped on a team that seems to have no direction after just a couple years ago being in the top of the Eastern Conference mix. 

The Celts ought to be looking at Wally Scerbiak, Ndudi Ebi or Eddie Griffin and a 1st rder and make it fit salary wise. 

They need a non ball controlling player like Wally and get some defenisive minded young players.


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## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> I have a hard time uderstanding Celtics fans discontent with the only player on your team who seems to ache about losing. Sure Pierce's attitude has soured but wouldn't yours if you were on a team that was building and competing for the conference title only 2 trade a main cog and start on a process of aquiring young talent and veterans that don't fit together at all.
> 
> The Celts have one of the mosyt terribly contructed rosters in the league, they have some very good young talent but also have some real loafers when it comes to veterans.
> 
> Very few good chemistry guys and too many I need the ball guys.
> 
> They really should be looking to build their team like the Bulls with an identity in mind.
> 
> Pierce is one of the best 15 players in this league and trading him for some more disgruntled Vets make no sense.
> 
> Time to get a couple young players and a couple 1st rd picks if you can.
> 
> I really don't blame Pierce at all. He's trapped on a team that seems to have no direction after just a couple years ago being in the top of the Eastern Conference mix.
> 
> The Celts ought to be looking at Wally Scerbiak, Ndudi Ebi or Eddie Griffin and a 1st rder and make it fit salary wise.
> 
> They need a non ball controlling player like Wally and get some defenisive minded young players.


I disagree with your lack of vision statement. I think its pretty clear that Ainge is looking to bring in versitle, mobile players who excell at running on the break and running a motion offense in the half court set. There isn't really anyone that doesn't fit into that system except for Mark Blount when he plays like he doesn't give a damn.

I don't think there was much direction with the team that Ainge inherited. Pierce and Walker were a dynamic duo, but were they going to win a championship? No. Instead would have made it to the playoffs and not make or win a championship. I'd rather struggle and build up a deep, young, exciting team than sit with Pierce and Walker and never really get over the hump.


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## Big John

Yes, the problem is that the Celtics DO have a vision but Pierce, as good as he is, does not fit that vision. The Celtics fuiture is with up tempo players like Tony Allen, Ricky Davis and Delonte West, plus Jefferson and Perkins, their young studs up front.

I have no doubt that Ainge has his ear to the ground for a Pierce deal. But he's not desperate. He can cetainly wait until the Summer, or even beyond, for an advantageous trade.


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

For once I totally agree with absolutely everything Big John just said!!


Good Post!

5-STAR POST:clap:


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## lastlaugh

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> 
> I disagree with your lack of vision statement. I think its pretty clear that Ainge is looking to bring in versitle, mobile players who excell at running on the break and running a motion offense in the half court set. There isn't really anyone that doesn't fit into that system except for Mark Blount when he plays like he doesn't give a damn.
> 
> I don't think there was much direction with the team that Ainge inherited. Pierce and Walker were a dynamic duo, but were they going to win a championship? No. Instead would have made it to the playoffs and not make or win a championship. I'd rather struggle and build up a deep, young, exciting team than sit with Pierce and Walker and never really get over the hump.


Please spare us the Pierce and Walker weren't bringing us a championship whining. Please explain to me how running and gunning and not playing defense with better FG% shooters and a bunch of kids is going to bring us one?

Maybe Pierce is not the problem here. Maybe the idea that this insane running will bring us a championship because it brought us a few a lifetime ago in a different NBA.


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## lastlaugh

*Re: OK, I guess Paul won't be going to Portland*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> But you guys have a nice nucleus with Telfair....Randolph....
> 
> The only free agents this year are shooting guards. So unless you want to deal Telfair, enjoy your second straight season in the lottery.


What arrogance you have. In case you have not noticed the Trailblazers made the playoffs for like 12 straight years until last year and your bragging about the 17 and 2o whatever Celtics being what?, better. LMAO?


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## BostonBasketball

I believe that Pierce has been playing a lot better recently. I was at the game against the Hawks and he looked faboulous. Now I'm not sure if that was becuase he wanted to play well against Walker or not, but he has been playing better recently averaging 23.5-10.75-5 over the last 4 games. It also seems that Paul has been playing with more fire recently as well. I am a strong believer that Pierce really just wants to win and that he is getting frustrated over his team's ineptitude to do that. I'm not sure whether or not he/or managment can be patient enough to fight through the re-building process, but if he does, I believe that this team will be special with Pierce and Jefferson in a couple of years. 

On the trade rumors with Portland, I think I have to agree partly with Jazzy1. Pierce is ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE. He averages neraly 22 pts, 7rbs and 4 ast per game. Among guards/fowards the only players with comparable number are Ray Allen, Corey Magette, Larry Hughes, Richard Jefferson, Lebron James, Tracy McGrady, and Kobe Braynt. I feel that unless you get Monya AND Telfair that Ainge CANNOT do buisness with Portland, and unfortunatly, Portalnd is not going to give up those two players to get a player who some (not me) feel is on a decline.


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## mediocre man

*Re: Re: OK, I guess Paul won't be going to Portland*



> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> What arrogance you have. In case you have not noticed the Trailblazers made the playoffs for like 12 straight years until last year and your bragging about the 17 and 2o whatever Celtics being what?, better. LMAO?



It was 22 straight years in the playoffs. Honestly I think both franchises are outstanding in their own right.


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## whiterhino

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Yes, the problem is that the Celtics DO have a vision but Pierce, as good as he is, does not fit that vision. The Celtics fuiture is with up tempo players like Tony Allen, Ricky Davis and Delonte West, plus Jefferson and Perkins, their young studs up front.
> 
> I have no doubt that Ainge has his ear to the ground for a Pierce deal. But he's not desperate. He can cetainly wait until the Summer, or even beyond, for an advantageous trade.


i also agree 100% with this statement. Jazzy I usually agree with you on the Jazz board but you are WAY WAY off on the CELTS, if anything we have more of a vision and identity than any other young team in the league, and it shows.


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## E.H. Munro

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> The only deal that works and I would do is:
> 
> Shareef Adur-Rahim
> Nick Van Exel (or Damon Stoudamire; really the same thing)
> A protected first-round pick
> Viktor Khryapa (they won't give up Monia)
> 
> for
> 
> Paul Pierce
> Raef Lafrentz
> Michael Stewart
> Jiri Welsch


That might be the worst trade proposal I've seen yet.


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## whiterhino

> Originally posted by <b>ehmunro</b>!
> 
> 
> That might be the worst trade proposal I've seen yet.


yeah I'd say that one is a no go, and Monia is included if Telfair isn't or Danny wouldn't even talk to them guaranteed.


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## E.H. Munro

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, competing for the eighth seed is so interesting each and every year.  . Pierce isn't working. We should trade him when he has value. Give me someone who has less value, but potential to be a top five point guard.


Yeah, but they wouldn't be dealing Pierce for someone like that, they'd be dealing him for Telfair.


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## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>ehmunro</b>!
> 
> 
> That might be the worst trade proposal I've seen yet.


Yeah, it's terrible. We'd save about 87 million over the next 6 years, get a promising player and a draft pick. Oh yeah, did I mention we'd get rid of Yogi and Welsch?


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## E.H. Munro

Viktor Khryapa isn't promising, he's an 8-10 guy in an NBA rotation. If it were Monya or Telfair, or the pick weren't lottery protected it'd be worth considering, because at year's end they could address all their needs in free agency & the draft. But your deal would leave them struggling to fill needs everywhere and only free agency to do it with. No thanks.


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## SPIN DOCTOR

Me thinks you would be nuts to trade PP (this from a Bulls fan). Build around your youngins and keep Paul. The return would have to be much better than whats been tossed out here, including the great Sebastion.


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>SPIN DOCTOR</b>!
> Me thinks you would be nuts to trade PP (this from a Bulls fan). Build around your youngins and keep Paul. The return would have to be much better than whats been tossed out here, including the great Sebastion.



exactly. can we end this now.


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## mrsister

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think there was much direction with the team that Ainge inherited. Pierce and Walker were a dynamic duo, but were they going to win a championship? No. Instead would have made it to the playoffs and not make or win a championship. I'd rather struggle and build up a deep, young, exciting team than sit with Pierce and Walker and never really get over the hump.


As the Celtics were constructed, no, they weren't going to win a championship. However, I do believe there might have been a chance to build around Pierce and Walker. Add a true point guard and a good coach, and I think they could've grown into a formiddable force. Pierce and Walker had a chemistry that's hard to get just by putting 2 stars together. Walker helped make Paul a great player by putting his ego away and letting Paul shine. But I don't think Paul could've shone so much without Walker, as evidenced by last year. Walker's presence made teams a little more reluctant to focus their whole defense on Pierce. And Pierce and Walker could read each other and keep each other in check. That's hard to coach. Walker had a lot of flaws. I don't deny that. But he was good for Paul, and he was good for the team as a whole. I think a point guard, a coach, and some better role players would have taken them to the next level. The Pistons proved a team is not measured by the sum of its parts. 

I don't think Paul is lazy and doesn't care. I just think he really doesn't know what to do with all these new players. When they went the ECF, he'd been with a core group of players since he'd been here. Last year, all but one of them were gone (I don't count Blount), and McCarty wasn't exactly a vital piece. Can Paul learn? Probably, but it will take time. I really don't count last year as an indication. Most of the team was traded away and the coach he loved quit. The interim coach was nothing special. This year, the starting lineup has been fairly steady, but the rotations have been all over the place. However, the past few games, Paul has been playing into the new style. He was either running more or starting the break with an outlet pass. I think Rivers can make him turn that into a habit. It'll take more time, but people are impatient. Nothing is instant, though. A trade isn't going to fix things right away. So you have to decide what you want to wait for - Paul or some new guys. Personally, I'd take my chances on Paul. But Paul has to adapt. The team isn't going to adapt to Paul.


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## Richie Rich

*Bucher is a*

Bucher just seems like he has just an XTREME hatred for Pierce. I'm really getting sick of it...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=bucher_ric&id=1976018




On a side note I believe Bucher sed last night on NBA coast to coast or espn wutever it was that Al Jefferson will have more double-doubles than D-Wight Howard in the 2ND HALF of the season.


----------



## TONYALLEN42

pierce is only 25 hes not exactly old. why would you not want to keep a guy who dosent want to be traded and is racking up 20-30 points per game. pierce sells tickets, he can shoot, he can pass, and he can rebound people need to settle about this. bucher is just being an *** trying to get this to be the top story. bottom line keep him until atleast the end of the season and see how it turns out.


----------



## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>TONYALLEN42</b>!
> pierce is only 25 hes not exactly old. why would you not want to keep a guy who dosent want to be traded and is racking up 20-30 points per game. pierce sells tickets, he can shoot, he can pass, and he can rebound people need to settle about this. bucher is just being an *** trying to get this to be the top story. bottom line keep him until atleast the end of the season and see how it turns out.


Paul's 27. He aged. 

Although I agree with the article, Paul's been playing better recently, but tonigh he almost cost us the game.


----------



## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

> but tonigh he almost cost us the game.


True...almost. He also hit a BIG three towards the end of the 4th. Overall though good game but again I think Indy brought their own refs I mean 10fls in the 1st quarter??


----------



## SPIN DOCTOR

While any PP trade would be insanity (barring a ludicrous return package), if Danny wants to take pity on my Bulls and trade him by Saturday, that would be A OK.

Should be a good game. What happened to Jefferson?


----------



## BostonBasketball

> What happened to Jefferson?


he rolled his ankle when he was running back to play defense....hes probably gonna be out like 4 weeks


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>BostonBasketball</b>!
> 
> 
> he rolled his ankle when he was running back to play defense....hes probably gonna be out like 4 weeks


----------

