# OT: Vick



## o.iatlhawksfan

What are some opinions about Vick being Indicted. I personally think, he's innocent till proven guilty, but if this is true, I lost total respect for him, he used to be my favorite player.


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## ATLien

This dude was like the most popular athlete in the city since before I was born or started following sports. I can't forgive Vick for this but now I'm wondering how the Falcons franchise rebounds from this..


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## o.iatlhawksfan

A part of hopes, he stays with the Falcon, cause I like seeing the big crowed in Atlanta for a change LOL, and he is the most entertaining player IMO. Either that, or he's in jail, for what he did.


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## ATLien

I'm not an expert or anything but I would have to think that there's a zero percent chance he plays another game for Atlanta..


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## o.iatlhawksfan

So what is Atlanta gonna do, try to draft a QB, next season?


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## ATLien

Probably..

I'm not sure what the Falcons now do with Vick's contract.. is it voided or what?


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## o.iatlhawksfan

After hearing what he did to those animals, I wouldn't feel bad for him, if he went to jail.


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## Bubbles

He will get away with it like most celebrities and athletes do, but PETA will make Vick's/the Falcon's/the NFL's life a living hell.

I hate PETA.


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## different_13

Yeah, funny how they throw paint over old rich people wearing furs but not Hell's Angels wearing leather.


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## JuX

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> So what is Atlanta gonna do, try to draft a QB, next season?


They traded away Schaub, so yeah they're in deep hole in that QB situation when Vick's out.


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## JNice

Quite Frankly said:


> He will get away with it like most celebrities and athletes do, but PETA will make Vick's/the Falcon's/the NFL's life a living hell.
> 
> I hate PETA.


I doubt he'll get away with it. This isn't a little local investigation. It is a federal investigation and if they are going after Vick it is pretty likely they've got more than solid evidence. I think it is pretty apparent he was involved. From what I've heard the evidence is pretty damning. It is sad and sadistic ... at the same time, ****ing stupid. You'd think with your millions of dollars you could find a better way to entertain yourself.


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## ATLien

Juxtaposed said:


> They traded away Schaub, so yeah they're in deep hole in that QB situation when Vick's out.


Yeah they were talking on sports talk today how big of a mistake that trade is now looking, but I just don't see it..

The way I see it.. Atlanta got a steal in trading Matt Schaub for two second rounders. Keep in mind that Houston then turned around and gave Schaub $50M. I think I'd rather take the two picks and draft a QB in a year or two.


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## rainman

Try smoking crack or beating up your girlfriend, dont try evading the IRS or abusing animals. They threw Jamal Lewis in jail they can throw Vick in too.


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## WhoDaBest23

If he comes back to the Falcons, I'll be shocked. No way he doesn't go to jail for this. On the football side of things, possible short-term solution for the Falcons... Daunte Culpepper.


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## crazyfan

Real sad for him. but as long as he's in Madden 08, I'll get over it


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## rainman

crazyfan said:


> Real sad for him. but as long as he's in Madden 08, I'll get over it


Sad for him? I feel worse for the dogs.


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## o.iatlhawksfan

For real! **** him!


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## timr

People jump to conclusion too quickly.


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## rainman

timr said:


> People jump to conclusion too quickly.


Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, Ladanian Tomlinson get the benefit of the doubt, this dirtbag doesnt, he was a bum before the dog incident came up.


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## ATLien

I don't know.. it's not like he was just attending a dog fight, it sounds like he was the one actually running it and murdering the dogs that didn't perform.. I have a hard time seeing how he gets off clean just because his name is all over the indictment and it's looking like his cousin turned MV7 in. Explaining why none of his cousins who was living in the VA house weren't indicted.


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## mediocre man

If he's convicted then he should be thrown in prison until he can't even watch football much less play it. Atlanta should cut him and recieve a pick from the league and any team that tries to sign him should be fined and forfeit a pick. 

Even if he knew about this crap but just didn't say anything he should be suspended for life from the NFL, CFL, AFL, and powder puff if necessary


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## MacDanny 6

Quite Frankly said:


> He will get away with it like most celebrities and athletes do, but PETA will make Vick's/the Falcon's/the NFL's life a living hell.
> 
> I hate PETA.


good he deserves it if he gets away with this stuff. You hate PETA but if you were treated the way those dogs were, how quickly you would take those words back.


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## rainman

I really find it hard to believe if he had involvement in this that he is going to get away with it. It's one thing if locals charge you with something and then the posse comes in with a suitcase full of money and stories change but this is a federal offense, it's like tax evasion, grab your ankles and kiss your *** goodbye. Personally i think his pro career is finished. Good riddance as far as i'm concerened.


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## Block

But he'll dominate the court yard in state prison; juking, breaking ankles, barrel rolls, etc.


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## mediocre man

Block said:


> But he'll dominate the court yard in state prison; juking, breaking ankles, barrel rolls, etc.




Yeah but those won't be microphones being shoved in his face in the locker room after the game.


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## o.iatlhawksfan

I say give him the worst possible sentence, SEND HIM TO HOUSTON!


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## Ron Mexico

> Purnell "P-Funk" Peace, Quanis "Q" Phillips, Tony "T" Taylor, and Michael "Ookie" Vick.


should i change my username to Ookie?


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## timr

rainman said:


> Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, Ladanian Tomlinson get the benefit of the doubt, this dirtbag doesnt, he was a bum before the dog incident came up.


What are you talking about? He did a lot of charity work and this is his first case where he's actually being charged. Meaning, his record was clean before this came up.


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## Priest

innocent til proven guilty. im tired of people bashing vick for this without a verdict its stupid..seriously...for one htis didnt happen at his house just a house he owned. and how much can one partake in these fights during the season? If he didnt do it I'm sure he knew about them because its his boys, but lets not jump the band wagon


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## BG7

Maybe he can be cell mates with Donaghy.


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## BlakeJesus

rainman said:


> Sad for him? I feel worse for the dogs.


You feel worse for some mistreated dogs than an actual human who might lose not only his main sourc of income, but a good majority of his life (weather it be lifestyle because he goes broke or actual years of his life in prison)? Now THAT'S messed up.

I get it, don't treat animals bad. There's no reason to, I got three dogs and two cats...I don't mind animals. But that is honestly horrible that you'd feel worse for an animal than a human.


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## Diable

GregOden said:


> You feel worse for some mistreated dogs than an actual human who might lose not only his main sourc of income, but a good majority of his life (weather it be lifestyle because he goes broke or actual years of his life in prison)? Now THAT'S messed up.
> 
> I get it, don't treat animals bad. There's no reason to, I got three dogs and two cats...I don't mind animals. But that is honestly horrible that you'd feel worse for an animal than a human.


If Vick did this I hope they send his *** to prison.Dogfighting is a barbaric sport and it's illegal in this country.There's absolutely no reason anyone should have sympathy for him if he was stupid enough and cruel enough to engage in this sort of senseless activity.

Geesh the guy had a contract that was worth a hundred million dollars and if he did anything close to what he's accused of he violated that contract many times over.He deserves to lose every penny of that money just for being a fool.


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## Block

That Schaub thing... it makes you think

and WOW.. at people who are defending Vick. Throwing dogs down until they die? shooting them? electrocuting them? Lol losing his only source of income, he only has couple of hundred of millions left. 

I can't even begin to describe how effed up some of your priorities are.


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## ATLien

I just hope that they aren't doing this investigation just to target Vick and we seriously get to find out about how common dog fighting is in America and what they will do about it


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## Burn

GregOden said:


> You feel worse for some mistreated dogs than an actual human who might lose not only his main sourc of income, but a good majority of his life (weather it be lifestyle because he goes broke or actual years of his life in prison)? Now THAT'S messed up.
> 
> I get it, don't treat animals bad. There's no reason to, I got three dogs and two cats...I don't mind animals. But that is honestly horrible that you'd feel worse for an animal than a human.


lol. I love it. We should feel sorrier for the killer than the killed, because he might actually have to be punished for his crimes and suffer loss of lifestyle. And what a lifestyle it was, killing dogs, infecting women with herpes, and generally embarassing the city of Atlanta. Shame that all of that could come to an end just because of an innocent felony operation. I ask you America, is this justice, when a man can lose his main source of income and go to prison just because he committed several crimes?


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## o.iatlhawksfan

Burn said:


> lol. I love it. We should feel sorrier for the killer than the killed, because he might actually have to be punished for his crimes and suffer loss of lifestyle. And what a lifestyle it was, killing dogs, infecting women with herpes, and generally embarassing the city of Atlanta. Shame that all of that could come to an end just because of an innocent felony operation. I ask you America, is this justice, when a man can lose his main source of income and go to prison just because he committed several crimes?


agreed! If he's killing dogs in his free time, he doesn't deserve a good lifestyle!


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## I Own 2 Microwaves

Vick didn't execute any dogs, the indictment says so


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## o.iatlhawksfan

did I miss something?


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## BlakeJesus

A lot of you honestly don't use your heads I don't think. Do you HONESTLY think Vick, like you said the insanely rich and famous Vick, executed dogs in that manner HIMSELF. You're VERY nieve if you think that's the case.

I highly doubt he was even within a couple MILES of the dogs when they were being executed. Maybe he ordered it? Or maybe somebody else just did and Vick was funding it. You guys are making Vick out to be some psychopathic dog torturer that they could have used in WW2 or something.

Some of you need to use your head, or there's no reason debating about it.

And a lot of you ask WHY he would do it? It's a competition, and he's an athlete. He's a very competitive guy, not to mention insanely rich...you'd have to assume he won the majority of the time. Not to mention it's prevalent in the African American culture moreso than the Caucasion culture. I'm sure this was something he either did for a good chunk of his life, or something his family got him into.

Not saying it's right, I just think a lot of you are making a bigger deal out of killing some dogs than it actually is.


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## ATLien

Well.. those are the allegations.

Sometimes, criminals are not smart.


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## I Own 2 Microwaves

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> did I miss something?


Michael Vick did not actually execute any dog

the indictment says the other two guys did all that slamming dogs, electrucuting (sp?), hanging none of it was done by Vick himself

but it did say he participated in dog fighting


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## o.iatlhawksfan

Anyone saw the press conference? Vick isn't coming back!

Falcons fan you could always become Saints fans!


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## timr

I heard some of it. It doesn't say he won't come back. I think they said they will tried to get him to a 4 game suspension. 

If you mean he won't come back to training camp then yeah.


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## ATLien

There's just no way I can see Vick starting for the Falcons again. Too much damage has been done even if he is allowed back in the NFL.


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## Charlie Brown

I Own 2 Microwaves said:


> Michael Vick did not actually execute any dog
> 
> the indictment says the other two guys did all that slamming dogs, electrucuting (sp?), hanging none of it was done by Vick himself
> 
> but it did say he participated in dog fighting


Yeah all Vick did was build a compound for the systematic raising and torturing of dogs.

It's not like it was something bad.


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## BlakeJesus

Charlie Brown said:


> Yeah all Vick did was build a compound for the systematic raising and torturing of dogs.
> 
> It's not like it was something bad.


Again, Vick just gave some dudes some money and they went away and did everything.

Is Vick a good guy? Doesn't seem like it. But is he some psychopathic freak that lives for frying dogs? Doesn't seem like it.


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## ATLien

And you know that how?


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## Burn

TheATLien said:


> And you know that how?


Same way everyone knew Chris Benoit couldn't have killed his family; "I watch him on TV and I like him so he's not guilty"


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## o.iatlhawksfan

He's making things up!

Just become Saints fans, they're a good team with good people to root for!


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## ATLien

No thanks. Atlanta has won more playoff games in 1 season than New Orleans has in 40 seasons.


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## o.iatlhawksfan

Atlanta doesn't have a Reggie Bush!


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## BlakeJesus

TheATLien said:


> And you know that how?


He's not a carpenter, or an architect, or a construction worker, I doubt he could build and design a structure made solely for dog torturing. Or is that bad logic, I mean I know his nickname is Superman, just trying to be realistic.


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## BlakeJesus

Burn said:


> Same way everyone knew Chris Benoit couldn't have killed his family; "I watch him on TV and I like him so he's not guilty"


What an ignorant statement, let's just assume everybody but you is a mindless glob that can't think outside of their little TV box.


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## ATLien

GregOden said:


> He's not a carpenter, or an architect, or a construction worker, I doubt he could build and design a structure made solely for dog torturing. Or is that bad logic, I mean I know his nickname is Superman, just trying to be realistic.


What structure are you talking about? You lost me..

Vick & his buddies held dog fights on their property and killed the ones that didn't perform. That is the accusation. But I don't know what you're talking about.


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## ATLien

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Atlanta doesn't have a Reggie Bush!


What is so great about Reggie Bush? He was an incredible college player but he didn't have a great rookie season.


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## o.iatlhawksfan

his versatility was big, he can catch and explode for yardage. He started it off slow, but once he got comfortable, he started playing, like the player we envisioned! He has great vision and speed!

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## BlakeJesus

TheATLien said:


> What structure are you talking about? You lost me..
> 
> Vick & his buddies held dog fights on their property and killed the ones that didn't perform. That is the accusation. But I don't know what you're talking about.


YOU didn't say that he built any structure, Charlie Brown did. Look back a couple posts.

But in my response to him, you said "How do you know?". So I assumed you had a clue what you were challenging me on.


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## ATLien

Well to be 100% honest, my posts are the only ones worth reading. So thats why I didn't read his post.


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## Burn

GregOden said:


> What an ignorant statement, let's just assume everybody but you is a mindless glob that can't think outside of their little TV box.


It's the truth. You're only defending him because you're his fan. And you're offering up the worst defense possible. I'd love to hear you in court using your little straw men as a closing statement. "Yes Vick did exactly what he's accused of which is running an illegal dogfighting operation, but it's not like he's a psychopathic dog torturer who lives to kill dogs who you could've used in WW2. Yes I have a point your Honor, my client is guilty of these charges but innocent of different ones I imagined to make my position seem more credible. You award me no points and may God have mercy on my soul? Come on your Honor, that's just mean."


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## o.iatlhawksfan

TheATLien said:


> Well to be 100% honest, my posts are the only ones worth reading. So thats why I didn't read his post.


WHAT???


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## BlakeJesus

Burn said:


> It's the truth. You're only defending him because you're his fan. And you're offering up the worst defense possible. I'd love to hear you in court using your little straw men as a closing statement. "Yes Vick did exactly what he's accused of which is running an illegal dogfighting operation, but it's not like he's a psychopathic dog torturer who lives to kill dogs who you could've used in WW2. Yes I have a point your Honor, my client is guilty of these charges but innocent of different ones I imagined to make my position seem more credible. You award me no points and may God have mercy on my soul? Come on your Honor, that's just mean."


Now I remember why I stopped posting on the Hawks forum, ATLien is the only one with a shred of intelligence.


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## ATLien

stopped posting? You just registered like two months ago. lol


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## o.iatlhawksfan

You can always just leave!


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## o.iatlhawksfan

TheATLien said:


> stopped posting? You just registered like two months ago. lol



I think he said he used to be Jahem?


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## BlakeJesus

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> I think he said he used to be Jahem?


Yeap, Jameh. I had that account registered in like 2005.


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## Burn

Haha, you probably forgot the password to your old account. You seem like the type whose brain can only hold a small amount of information at any given time. Tell us again how Vick didn't physically kill the dogs as if it's relevant. Freakin Clarence Darrow this kid is.


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## Blue

GregOden said:


> You feel worse for some mistreated dogs than an actual human who might lose not only his main sourc of income, but a good majority of his life (weather it be lifestyle because he goes broke or actual years of his life in prison)? Now THAT'S messed up.
> 
> I get it, don't treat animals bad. There's no reason to, I got three dogs and two cats...I don't mind animals. But that is honestly horrible that you'd feel worse for an animal than a human.


Agreed. Most of these people can really careless about the actual animals, they just want to make themselves feel better by demeaning Vick, or they just really dont understand the fundamental concept of how life works. Humans are the dominant species....we therefore kill animals all the time for our own personal benifits. If you own a leather jacket, or fur coat or eat meat, then I dont really respect you any more-so than I do Vick. Animals aren't people, they are animals. Unless you're going to take offense with every cow, chicken, pig ect. that is bred, injected with steriods and other growth hormones...and then systematically slaughtered for their goods, in which im sure many of you buy, myself included(be it food or materials or whatever), then I dont see where you draw the line.....Help me out? 

Now if he was exploiting poor childrn overseas, by paying them next to nothing for long hard labor simply to construct a shoe and then turn around and sell that $5-$10 shoe for $150......Then I may lose respect for him, but not for being a dick to animals. Guys need to get over yourselves.



Diable said:


> If Vick did this I hope they send his *** to prison.*Dogfighting is a barbaric sport and it's illegal in this country.There's absolutely no reason anyone should have sympathy for him if he was stupid enough and cruel enough to engage in this sort of senseless activity.*
> 
> Geesh the guy had a contract that was worth a hundred million dollars and if he did anything close to what he's accused of he violated that contract many times over.He deserves to lose every penny of that money just for being a fool.


Wow...to bad people in the past didn't veiw slavery with this same amount of passion and moral integrity as you have now. :no: Only if it had been illegal.

I agree with you that he was a fool.....but only in the respect that what he did was illegal. Not because it was necesarilly the worst things in the world. I wouldn't necesarilly say that i view him as criminal now because of this act.



TheATLien said:


> I just hope that they aren't doing this investigation just to target Vick and we seriously get to find out about how common dog fighting is in America and what they will do about it


I hope so too, but i think we know the deeper agenda behind alot of accusations like these (ie. Kobe Bryant, Barry Bonds, ... etc.), SAD.


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## Burn

Power_Ballin said:


> Agreed. Most of these people can really careless about the actual animals, they just want to make themselves feel better by demeaning Vick, or they just really dont understand the fundamental concept of how life works. Humans are the dominant species....we therefore kill animals all the time for our own personal benifits. If you own a leather jacket, or fur coat or eat meat, then I dont really respect you any more-so than I do Vick. Animals aren't people, they are animals. Unless you're going to take offense with every cow, chicken, pig ect. that is bred, injected with steriods and other growth hormones...and then systematically slaughtered for their goods, in which im sure many of you buy, myself included(be it food or materials or whatever), then I dont see where you draw the line.....Help me out?


Yes genius, dogs are different than humans, and that is why the laws for cruelty to animals are much less drastic than the laws for cruelty to humans. Notice Vick isn't being charged with murder. Durrrr

I love how you're trying to tell us how human society works while failing to acknowledge that the crimes Vick is being charged with are crimes because THEY ARE CONSIDERED WRONG IN OUR HUMAN SOCIETY.

Who do you think established these laws, Martians? Are you really this dense?

as paraphrased: If you feel these laws are unfair then your best move is probably to leave this country and move to other countries that allow you to brutally torture animals for pleasure, you will find that most of those countries also have a lack of respect for their fellow man, enjoy.


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## BlakeJesus

Burn said:


> Yes genius, dogs are different than humans, and that is why the laws for cruelty to animals are much less drastic than the laws for cruelty to humans. Notice Vick isn't being charged with murder. Durrrr
> 
> I love how you're trying to tell us how human society works while failing to acknowledge that the crimes Vick is being charged with are crimes because THEY ARE CONSIDERED WRONG IN OUR HUMAN SOCIETY.
> 
> Who do you think established these laws, Martians? Are you really this dense?
> 
> If you feel these laws are unfair then your best move is probably to leave this country and move to other countries that allow you to brutally torture animals for pleasure, you will find that most of those countries also have a lack of respect for their fellow man, enjoy.


You get so into your own sarcasm you miss the point entirely.

Everybody's mad at Vick because he killed dogs in a cruel manner. Power Ballin made the point that people all across the world do equally terrible things to animals all the time, only difference is one form is socially acceptable the other is not. It's a valid point. If you don't get angry with farmers and what not that treat cows so poorly, why are you getting so mad at Vick? They're essentially doing the same thing.


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## Burn

GregOden said:


> You get so into your own sarcasm you miss the point entirely.
> 
> Everybody's mad at Vick because he killed dogs in a cruel manner. Power Ballin made the point that people all across the world do equally terrible things to animals all the time, only difference is one form is socially acceptable the other is not. It's a valid point. If you don't get angry with farmers and what not that treat cows so poorly, why are you getting so mad at Vick? They're essentially doing the same thing.


I disagree that's the point he's making. To me his point was that because we're humans, it's justified to treat dogs cruelly. But what is he basing that on? If he's basing it on the rules of civilization, well, those same rules say that it ISN'T justified.

He can probably answer for himself what his point was though, because the board shows that his username has been looking at this thread for the last 45 minutes.


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## BlakeJesus

Burn said:


> I disagree that's the point he's making. To me his point was that because we're humans, it's justified to treat dogs cruelly. But what is he basing that on? If he's basing it on the rules of civilization, well, those same rules say that it ISN'T justified.
> 
> He can probably answer for himself what his point was though, because the board shows that his username has been looking at this thread for the last 45 minutes.


It's called afk.

He only mentioned that because you guys said that you want to see Vick die or go to jail or whatnot, basically saying you value dogs lives more than Vicks life. That's the only reason he even mentioned the food chain, other than that his point was still what I said.


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## Burn

GregOden said:


> It's called afk.
> 
> So we HAVE established something, you misunderstood his post. No problems then.


Nice, so we've established something the same way American society established that dogfighting is wrong. No problems.


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## Blue

Burn said:


> Yes genius, dogs are different than humans, and that is why the laws for cruelty to animals are much less drastic than the laws for cruelty to humans. Notice Vick isn't being charged with murder. Durrrr


Whatever. He's being treated A LOT worse than many murder victims have been treated. Did you hear the reaction he got outside of his hearing today? That was an awful lot of anger over some animals.....what about the dead Katrina victims...and those convicted of child and spousal abuse...Do you people really care about/pay more attention to animal cruelty as opposed to cruelty to actual people.... ?

Exana Stubblefield was dealing with spousal abuse charges and Balco disclosures while still collecting a Raider's "steroid enhanced" payheck.

Bill Romanowski was dealing with his assault charges whilst still in uniform too.

Nothing is more PITIFUL than a fools who defend or are more against animal cruelty, than they are for NFL dopers who ABUSE their spouses or ASSUALT other PEOPLE. Yet Vick is the bad guy here, He represents everything wrong with our society, because he is a dick to DOGS. PLEASE

Find a new hobby. I suggest dog fight gaming over at Michael Vick's crib. 



> I love how you're trying to tell us how human society works while failing to acknowledge that the crimes Vick is being charged with are crimes because THEY ARE CONSIDERED WRONG IN OUR HUMAN SOCIETY.
> 
> Who do you think established these laws, Martians? Are you really this dense?
> 
> If you feel these laws are unfair then your best move is probably to leave this country and move to other countries that allow you to brutally torture animals for pleasure, you will find that most of those countries also have a lack of respect for their fellow man, enjoy.


WOW.......that is the typical POLITICAL RESPONSE that i would expect on here, i guess.

Ask the indians....any indian, about how they feel about HUMAN RIGHTS IN OUR SOCIETY as they are and as they have been applied/practiced in this country, both currently and throught the course of history. thank you

Oh, And I love how you ignored the rest of my post.

Are you so dense, that you blindly ignore every other act of animal cruelty in the world simply because they aren't illegal(illegal by US definition, of course), and they are of possible benefit to you. But yet you make dogfighting seem as if it warrants ruing a guys profession and potentially his life just because you probably dont like him, and dog fighting has no direct benifit to you, and is illegal by the standards of corrupt american law. I mean seriously, yeah it is not a nice thing to do, it is not prety, but it happens in life. IF he is guilty.....answer me this. Why you are so mad at Vick over these dogs yet you can probably care less about the systematic slaughtering of any other animal. I really dont undersatnd the differnce because at the end of the day, the animals are dead. A dog is no greater than a horse, or a cow, or a pig, or a sheep, so do you get so sensitive over dogs. If he owned an animal farm and was holding ****-fights, would you feel the same at his morals...... ??


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## Burn

GregOden said:


> It's called afk.
> 
> He only mentioned that because you guys said that you want to see Vick die or go to jail or whatnot, basically saying you value dogs lives more than Vicks life. That's the only reason he even mentioned the food chain, other than that his point was still what I said.


Oh, you changed your post. Yeah, is this guy your boyfriend? How do you know he's away from the keyboard, and how do you know what his intentions were in posting?

And yeah, criminals belong in jail. lol. You really don't understand the simplest concepts.

Do you think someone should go to jail for stealing 100k cash from a bank? OH MY GOD IF YOU SAY YES THAT MEANS YOU VALUE PIECES OF PAPER MORE THAN HUMAN LIVES


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## Blue

Burn said:


> I disagree that's the point he's making. To me his point was that because we're humans, it's justified to treat dogs cruelly. But what is he basing that on? If he's basing it on the rules of civilization, well, those same rules say that it ISN'T justified.
> 
> He can probably answer for himself what his point was though, because the board shows that his username has been looking at this thread for the last 45 minutes.


No. that is exactly what i'm saying. It is a double standered and I think Vick is being unfairly scrutinised for reasons deeper than just dog fighting. What im trying to say is, I have a hard time believing that so many people are this adamit about dogs, but no other animal. What is the real reason for all of this hate....?


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## BlakeJesus

Burn said:


> Oh, you changed your post. Yeah, is this guy your boyfriend? How do you know he's away from the keyboard, and how do you know what his intentions were in posting?
> 
> And yeah, criminals belong in jail. lol. You really don't understand the simplest concepts.
> 
> Do you think someone should go to jail for stealing 100k cash from a bank? OH MY GOD IF YOU SAY YES THAT MEANS YOU VALUE PIECES OF PAPER MORE THAN HUMAN LIVES


How do I know he's away from the keyboard? It's called assuming, buddy. Unless either you were wrong about his time in the thread (doubted it), or he was writing a 45 minute response (again doubted it). I think it's safe to say he just left his computer idle on this page.

And I'd rather see somebody in jail that stole 100k than somebody that killed 10 dogs. I DO value money more than dogs. Is that wrong?

And yeah I must be his boyfriend because I can actually understand what somebody is saying. I must have a LOT of boyfriends, because that's somethin' I got a knack for. I have the uncanny ability to actually UNDERSTAND the points people try and make. God I'm a ***.


----------



## Mateo

I Own 2 Microwaves said:


> Michael Vick did not actually execute any dog
> 
> the indictment says the other two guys did all that slamming dogs, electrucuting (sp?), hanging none of it was done by Vick himself
> 
> but it did say he participated in dog fighting


No, it actually said he did execute dogs. Page 17 of the indictment, it says Vick was one of the people who executed 8 dogs who performed poorly in the "test". Using hanging, drowning, and slamming them into the pavement.


----------



## Burn

Power_Ballin said:


> Whatever. He's being treated A LOT worse than many murder victims have been treated. Did you hear the reaction he got outside of his hearing today? That was an awful lot of anger over some animals.....what about the dead Katrina victims...and those convicted of child and spousal abuse...Do you people really care about/pay more attention to animal cruelty as opposed to cruelty to actual people.... ?


He's being treated worse than many murder victims? What? God, you really got this post off to a good start...I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. Do you mean he's being treated worse than many murderers? lol. I hope that's what you meant because it's really funny.

Katrina victims, huh? Do you want me to say that Katrina should be in prison? Because i agree, if we could try the Hurricane for murder, then she should be found guilty.

Those convicted of child and spousal abuse, yes, they should also go to prison, along with Katrina and murderers. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. 



> Exana Stubblefield was dealing with spousal abuse charges and Balco disclosures while still collecting a Raider's "steroid enhanced" payheck.
> 
> Bill Romanowski was dealing with his assault charges whilst still in uniform too.


Okay? Maybe Goodall would've dealt with them differently?



> Nothing is more PITIFUL than a fools who defend or are more against animal cruelty, than they are for NFL dopers who ABUSE their spouses or ASSUALT other PEOPLE. Yet Vick is the bad guy here, He represents everything wrong with our society, because he is a dick to DOGS. PLEASE


In your worthless opinion that is contradictory to what the vast majority thinks, sure, nothing is more pitiful. Thankfully, you're not smart and will never be successful or influential enough to pollute our collective opinions with yours though. 

I'm pretty sure Pacman Jones is also in trouble for his ABUSE and ASSAULT or PEOPLE if that makes you feel better. 



> Find a new hobby. I suggest dog fight gaming over at Michael Vick's crib.


I suggest no more attempts at comedy



> WOW.......that is the typical POLITICAL RESPONSE that i would expect on here, i guess.


Political? I don't think you know what that word means.



> Ask the indians....any indian, about how they feel about HUMAN RIGHTS IN OUR SOCIETY as they are and as they have been applied/practiced in this country, both currently and throught the course of history. thank you


Ok, let me go find an Indian. Oops, looks like they were all wiped out! I guess that's the kind of thing that happens in a society that doesn't value life. 



> Oh, And I love how you ignored the rest of my post.


Yeah, because there was no way I could've countered your Kobe Bryant/Barry Bonds paragraph. That was the most intelligent thing anyone has written ever, ever. Those guys got railroaded by THE MAN! 



> Are you so dense, that you blindly ignore every other act of animal cruelty in the world simply because they aren't illegal(illegal by US definition, of course), and they are of possible benefit to you.


No



> But yet you make dogfighting seem as if it warrants ruing a guys profession and potentially his life just because you probably dont like him, and dog fighting has no direct benifit to you, and is illegal by the standards of corrupt american law.


Yes, because I agree with the law like most people do I think he should be punished for breaking it and that warrants "ruing" his profession. The burden of proof is on you to show why he shouldn't. 

"Probably don't like him?" He was my favorite athlete. I love your assumption that only people who don't like him would have a problem with this. That's so childish. 

No direct benefit to me? Whether or not he sends me the proceeds I'm still against it. Life isn't all about doing whatever benefits you. Civilization is a testament to that.

Corrupt American law? Like I said, there are many other countries to choose from if you find the laws here to be corrupt or unfair, please go there. 



> I mean seriously, yeah it is not a nice thing to do, it is not prety, but it happens in life. IF he is guilty.....answer me this. Why you are so mad at Vick over these dogs yet you can probably care less about the systematic slaughtering of any other animal.


Umm, I don't care less? Where do you get 'probably' from. I don't eat horses, cow, pig, sheep and I don't fight them and I don't kill them. I happen to have the law and popular opinion backing me up in this case though and not in the Peyton Manning Cow-eating case. 



> I really dont undersatnd the differnce because at the end of the day, the animals are dead. A dog is no greater than a horse, or a cow, or a pig, or a sheep, so do you get so sensitive over dogs. If he owned an animal farm and was holding ****-fights, would you feel the same at his morals...... ??


Remember when you posted earlier about how humans are superior to all other animals? Well, in that heirarchy, dogs are also above many other animals. Why? Because humans like dogs and they consider them better than livestock. Sorry, study up on this history of dogs and humans if you want to understand why...although you could probably just glean it from popular sayings like "Man's best friend." There are also cars that are considered more valuable than other cars believe it or not, and we also assign monetary value to currency so that a dollar bill is more important than a piece of paper. Wrap your head around that. 



> If he owned an animal farm and was holding ****-fights, would you feel the same at his morals...... ??


****-fights? You mean ****-fests? Yeah, I think that's wrong. People shouldn't have sex with farm animals. Do you condone it or something?




GregOden said:


> How do I know he's away from the keyboard? It's called assuming, buddy. Unless either you were wrong about his time in the thread (doubted it), or he was writing a 45 minute response (again doubted it). I think it's safe to say he just left his computer idle on this page.


Nope, it's pretty obvious he was spending all that time typing that post actually. 



> And I'd rather see somebody in jail that stole 100k than somebody that killed 10 dogs. I DO value money more than dogs. Is that wrong?


You didn't get it...



> And yeah I must be his boyfriend because I can actually understand what somebody is saying. I must have a LOT of boyfriends, because that's somethin' I got a knack for. I have the uncanny ability to actually UNDERSTAND the points people try and make. God I'm a ***.


LOL, yet you didn't UNDERSTAND my bank robbery analogy. And yet you lack the not so uncanny ability that everyone else has at age 5 of understanding why certain things are wrong and why people should be punished for doing them.

You guys are awesome. I thank god for people like you, you're why I scored such a high percentile on the LSAT.


----------



## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> Again, Vick just gave some dudes some money and they went away and did everything.
> 
> Is Vick a good guy? Doesn't seem like it. But is he some psychopathic freak that lives for frying dogs? Doesn't seem like it.


1. The name of the kennel was Michael Vick Kennels.

2. The name of the management group owning the kennels was MV7.

3. The indictment lists Michael Vick, in several states, showing off HIS dogs.

The assumption that Vick is just some poor guy that had no idea what was going on is laughable.


----------



## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> How do I know he's away from the keyboard? It's called assuming, buddy. Unless either you were wrong about his time in the thread (doubted it), or he was writing a 45 minute response (again doubted it). I think it's safe to say he just left his computer idle on this page.
> 
> And I'd rather see somebody in jail that stole 100k than somebody that killed 10 dogs. I DO value money more than dogs. Is that wrong?
> 
> And yeah I must be his boyfriend because I can actually understand what somebody is saying. I must have a LOT of boyfriends, because that's somethin' I got a knack for. I have the uncanny ability to actually UNDERSTAND the points people try and make. God I'm a ***.


What you are doing is called deflection.

Other crimes have no relevance to the indictment against Vick.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Charlie Brown said:


> 1. The name of the kennel was Michael Vick Kennels.
> 
> 2. The name of the management group owning the kennels was MV7.
> 
> 3. The indictment lists Michael Vick, in several states, showing off HIS dogs.
> 
> The assumption that Vick is just some poor guy that had no idea what was going on is laughable.


To be honest, I don't really believe Vick when he says he wasn't involved with anything. I love the guy to death, but it seems pretty evident that he was involved in some way. I however HIGHLY doubt that he was actually rolling up his sleeves and murdering dogs. Maybe he sent in the order to do so? Maybe. I doubt he was within miles of it happening though. So it's laughable that you think I assumed he was completely innocent just because I like him as a player.

And is it that far fetched that, considering he probably funded most of it, not to mention he's incredibly famous and relation to the actual occupants of the house, that they just might have named it after him? To be fair, he is a licensed breeder, so it's not too out of the norm for him to have a kennel named after him that are storing the dogs he breeds...


----------



## BlakeJesus

Charlie Brown said:


> What you are doing is called deflection.
> 
> Other crimes have no relevance to the indictment against Vick.


Way2notreadthewholethread.

Some other guy mentioned that sort of crime, and I gave him my opinion on it Dr. Phil.


----------



## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> To be honest, I don't really believe Vick when he says he wasn't involved with anything. I love the guy to death, but it seems pretty evident that he was involved in some way. I however HIGHLY doubt that he was actually rolling up his sleeves and murdering dogs. Maybe he sent in the order to do so? Maybe. I doubt he was within miles of it happening though. So it's laughable that you think I assumed he was completely innocent just because I like him as a player.
> 
> And is it that far fetched that, considering he probably funded most of it, not to mention he's incredibly famous and relation to the actual occupants of the house, that they just might have named it after him? To be fair, he is a licensed breeder, so it's not too out of the norm for him to have a kennel named after him that are storing the dogs he breeds...


Did you read the indictment?

Vick was at several dog fights in various states...*fighting his dogs* for large amounts of money.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Charlie Brown said:


> Did you read the indictment?
> 
> Vick was at several dog fights in various states...*fighting his dogs* for large amounts of money.


Like I SAID. I'm sure he is guilty of dog fighting. I just don't think HE HIMSELF. MV7, MIKE, MICHAEL, VICK, murdered dogs. I don't think he electrocuted them himself, I don't think he drowned them himself, and I don't think he himself hung the dogs. Maybe he put the call in for it to happen, but I doubt he did the manual labor.

I never once said he didn't participate in dog fighting. That was never a topic to be honest. You're pulling **** out of your ***.

PLEASE for christ sake READ what is said before you reply to my posts.

I'm done with this thread and it's incompetence.


----------



## Blue

Burn said:


> He's being treated worse than many murder victims? What? God, you really got this post off to a good start...I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. Do you mean he's being treated worse than many murderers? lol. I hope that's what you meant because it's really funny.


yea, my B.



> Katrina victims, huh? Do you want me to say that Katrina should be in prison? Because i agree, if we could try the Hurricane for murder, then she should be found guilty.
> 
> Those convicted of child and spousal abuse, yes, they should also go to prison, along with Katrina and murderers. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.


Nah, i mean there are other things out there that people should be alot more upset over than Micheal Vick's alleged dog fighting case. My example was simply refering to thousands of victims of katrina who were left for dead due to slow federal seach and rescue responses and their are still people who need help today. That should be a priority for more people than this case, if they have any high moral regard for HUMAN life. I guess that doesn't draw enough ratings for prime time news coverage anymore for you to actually care about though. (mob mentality)

The other example i made was pointing out the sheer lack of interest or disregard people seem to have over child & spousal abuse charges or other violent offenders and dont really raise a brow. It's kind of expected, or i guess you could say accepted in the profession. BUT when Vick harm's animals...it's like "OMG let's get this POS, kicked out of the league for this dog fighting shyt!" I mean he could have done A LOT worse, and trust me, people have done A LOT worse and are still in the league, without getting nearly as much flack for it as vick has faced. 

Fact of the matter, Vick is a target, he is a figure head in the black community, and there are some peope out there that would love nothing more than to see him taken down. They build him up, so they can bring him down. It's an on-going cycle. This isn't the first time they have gone after someone on some of this shyt and it probably wont be the last. So let's just let the case play itself out and see what the verdict is. I can obviously see that he is already guilty on all counts in your mind.



> Okay? Maybe Goodall would've dealt with them differently?


Maybe.



> In your worthless opinion that is contradictory to what the vast majority thinks, sure, nothing is more pitiful. Thankfully, you're not smart and will never be successful or influential enough to pollute our collective opinions with yours though.


Well good thing I dont fukking care what you what you think of my opinion. i was just expressing my perspective on the issue and what i felt is more important, but you're entitled to you own opinion, as well. Yes, i do think there is a double-standard, yes i do think alot of people are hypocrites, and yes i do think that Vick is innocent till proven guilty, and unlike you, Im willing to let justice take its course, and actually learn what he infact DID DO, before getting all worked-up on some "animal cruelty" hype(i guess its just the new trend). All i was suggesting is that people need to get their shyt into perspective, and just realize what other issues are out there. If you follow the mob mentality, than by all means, do that, but dont hate on me for having an opinion that doesn't coincide with yours.



> I'm pretty sure Pacman Jones is also in trouble for his ABUSE and ASSAULT or PEOPLE if that makes you feel better.


well, technically it was his "freind" that shot the guy, but since he's also a figure-head, I think the media will just go ahead and tear him down for that too before they realize that he actually hasn't even been of convicted of anything. BUT yes, I think that Jones is associated with more harmful criminal activity than Vick is, yet people dont really seem to give a shyt about that. They have a higher regard for a DOGS life in this society than they do for HUMAN life.




> Ok, let me go find an Indian. Oops, looks like they were all wiped out! I guess that's the kind of thing that happens in a society that doesn't value life.


I dont think iv EVER seen two real indians...




> Yes, because I agree with the law like most people do I think he should be punished for breaking it and that warrants "ruing" his profession. The burden of proof is on you to show why he shouldn't.


So you've never broken any laws before. You're telling me that you blindly follow every law in the book? Do you really think that all laws are made with your best interest at heart; w/ no alternative agendas involved ..... ? There would be no United States of America, if everybody had blindly followed government policies like you suggest. The forefathers of this nation were criminals. WTF do think the Boston tea party was......those people also criminals. If you like that kind of blind mob mentality tho that you just see on the t.v.(just another example of the blind leading the blind)), then by all means that is your choice. I do admire your innocence though, kid.



> "Probably don't like him?" He was my favorite athlete. I love your assumption that only people who don't like him would have a problem with this. That's so childish.


wow....WAS your favorite player....? you are quite quick to judge yourself, kid ....real mature of you.



> No direct benefit to me? Whether or not he sends me the proceeds I'm still against it. Life isn't all about doing whatever benefits you. Civilization is a testament to that.


well then i ASSUME that you do not eat meat or own any animal products or accessories, such as sheep skin, fur, leather, silk, ect ect...If you do, then you your-self have supported the cause of taking advantage of animals for food or material goods. Congradulations for your moral nature.



> Corrupt American law? Like I said, there are many other countries to choose from if you find the laws here to be corrupt or unfair, please go there.


Oh, sorry. American government isn't currupt. :clap2: 



> Umm, I don't care less? Where do you get 'probably' from. I don't eat horses, cow, pig, sheep and I don't fight them and I don't kill them. I happen to have the law and popular opinion backing me up in this case though and not in the Peyton Manning Cow-eating case.


Oh, so your a vegan....? Or you just dont give a shyt about other animals... other than dogs, of course. I'm sure race horses dont like that whip, and what about those that are put down when they can no longer perform. where are their indictments. Oh, Wait a minute i forgot, they aren't dogs.



> Remember when you posted earlier about how humans are superior to all other animals? Well, in that heirarchy, dogs are also above many other animals. Why? Because humans like dogs and they consider them better than livestock. Sorry, study up on this history of dogs and humans if you want to understand why...although you could probably just glean it from popular sayings like "Man's best friend." There are also cars that are considered more valuable than other cars believe it or not, and we also assign monetary value to currency so that a dollar bill is more important than a piece of paper. Wrap your head around that.


Oh, so dogs are on top of the animal food chain. Gotcha. PLEASE KID, give me a damn break. In china, dogs are considered a source of food. They can give a **** about them. I love my dogs, but i know there place in society. Maybe if you post a link i might read it, but im not going to fret over some dogs being killed, when I know that a harmless group of pigs were helplessly bred and sloughtered, for what....? For my new leather jacket(armani) and for my pork loin dinner(damn that was good). 




> ****-fights? You mean ****-fests? Yeah, I think that's wrong. People shouldn't have sex with farm animals. Do you condone it or something?


wow...um, whah??


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

:banghead: I really can't understand why you would defend the guy!


----------



## ATLien

They aren't really defending him they are just saying "Hey! Go easy on the poor guy. We know he's probably guilty, but do we really need to put him in jail? Pretty please?"


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

Man, they saying go easy on the guy
**** him, GOD won't go easy when he dies
He might not feel no guilt
but he'll eventually pay when he burns in ****


M.C O repping that N.O!!!


----------



## Burn

Power ballin: you're really all over the map here in scrambling to come up with a defense for the guy - so far you've mentioned Barry Bonds, Hurricane Katrina, the Native American genocide and the Boston Tea party; instead of all this bizarre and borderline insane deflection why don't you face the simple fact that he committed a felony and on top of that one that's VERY unpopular. That's really the only thing that matters here, but since you can't digest that simple fact, you instead attack the people who can. Your attacks pretty much seem to rely on you offering a yes or no scenario and then choosing the answer yourself to expose some kind of hypocrisy...not a very good technique. Quit trying to implicate me in some crime or decipher my mindset because even if by some miracle you could, it wouldn't change what Vick did. He's the issue here, not me. 

Now, since your assumptions have been consistently off base and since they're pretty much all you got, you got nothin. What else you got...moral relativism? You don't even know what that term means, but you used an example of it, and I have another example to show why that's a load of bull****. 3 letters - FGM. 

If you're going to try and come back at me, please read up on fallacies first, and stop serving them up. They remind me that I'm arguing with a little kid and that's embarassing for the both of us.


----------



## timr

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Man, they saying go easy on the guy
> **** him, GOD won't go easy when he dies
> He might not feel no guilt
> but he'll eventually pay when he burns in ****
> 
> 
> M.C O repping that N.O!!!


Dude, stop condemning the guy. Let due process plays it out before you call for his head. I know that he's the biggest threat to the saints, but he deserves a fair trial.


----------



## BlakeJesus

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Man, they saying go easy on the guy
> **** him, GOD won't go easy when he dies
> He might not feel no guilt
> but he'll eventually pay when he burns in ****
> 
> 
> M.C O repping that N.O!!!


He hasn't even been prosecuted yet! For all we know, and what we SHOULD assume since it is after all the motto for the judicial system, innocent until proven guilty. Since there hasn't been a case yet, meaning he hasn't been able to be deemed guilty or not guilty, you HAVE to assume he's innocent. Form your opinions during the trial, not before.


----------



## ATLien

Let's be realistic for a minute. 

The indictment was 19 pages long in great detail with Vick's name all over the place. And he is facing more trouble with looming superceding indictments..

You really think he's getting off? Feds don't play around with this type of stuff.

Honestly, if you weren't a Vick fan you wouldn't be saying any of this.


----------



## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> I never once said he didn't participate in dog fighting. That was never a topic to be honest. You're pulling **** out of your ***.


Participating in dog fighting IS killing dogs.

It doesn't matter if Vick physically killed the dogs or if a handler who he paid killed the dogs.

I do not know how that is pulling **** out of my ***.


----------



## Charlie Brown

TheATLien said:


> Honestly, if you weren't a Vick fan you wouldn't be saying any of this.


We have a winner.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Charlie Brown said:


> Participating in dog fighting IS killing dogs.
> 
> It doesn't matter if Vick physically killed the dogs or if a handler who he paid killed the dogs.
> 
> I do not know how that is pulling **** out of my ***.


People are changing all around what they said. First he's a psychotic dog killer because he drowned, hung, and electrocuted dogs. I claim I don't think he was even near those dogs being killed in that manner.

Than it gets changed up to dog fighting IS killing dogs, you guys will honestly do anything to make this guy look like scum won't you.

Not to mention the countless number of responses I've given that make whoever I was responding to look bad, and they don't have anything to say back to that. Of course they have no problem quoting and responding to a response I gave somebody ELSE because THAT fits in better with their argument.



TheATLien said:


> Honestly, if you weren't a Vick fan you wouldn't be saying any of this.


Read what I'm about to say, and that should answer your question. Maybe I care to speak about it a little bit more because it's Vick, but my basic feelings on the matter wouldn't change if maybe it had been Portis, or any other player that got hit with these charges.

This will probably be my last post in the thread.

I don't think dog fighting is that bad. Should it be illegal? Yeah. But I think serving any amount of jail time for fighting dogs is stupid. People in America care way too much about their pets, so that's why everybody is freaking out about this. Animals dieing is no strange thing in these worlds, but because it's a pet like a dog everybody exaggerates how serious it is. If he was **** fighting would everybody be as upset? It's still the same deal, he's killing animals in a cruel way. But I highly doubt anybody would care all that much. But it's a dog, it's a household pet so now everybody is going to cry about it because they sympathize with the dogs because they probably have one. Maybe it's just me, but that last sentence made ME laugh out loud. Anybody that sympathizes with an animal is honestly pathetic in my opinion. I have three dogs, and I love them to death. But if somebody killed them I wouldn't expect that person to go to prison for 10 years for it. That's just bad logic. I'd probably kill them first, but you only get one life to live. And I think it's wrong to waste human life by letting them rot in jail/prison because they killed an animal. Only excuse to jail somebody for that is if it's an endangered species, which I'm fairly certain pit bulls are not.

Ridicule me, hate on me, I really don't care. You guys love your pets way too much, and if you don't have any and you're still flipping out about this, you have pets on way too high of a pedestal. They're animals, not humans. A human life is more important than 100 dogs lives.


----------



## Blue

Burn said:


> Power ballin: you're really all over the map here in scrambling to come up with a defense for the guy - so far you've mentioned Barry Bonds, Hurricane Katrina, the Native American genocide and the Boston Tea party; instead of all this bizarre and borderline insane deflection why don't you face the simple fact that he committed a felony and on top of that one that's VERY unpopular. That's really the only thing that matters here, but since you can't digest that simple fact, you instead attack the people who can. Your attacks pretty much seem to rely on you offering a yes or no scenario and then choosing the answer yourself to expose some kind of hypocrisy...not a very good technique. Quit trying to implicate me in some crime or decipher my mindset because even if by some miracle you could, it wouldn't change what Vick did. He's the issue here, not me.
> 
> Now, since your assumptions have been consistently off base and since they're pretty much all you got, you got nothin. What else you got...moral relativism? You don't even know what that term means, but you used an example of it, and I have another example to show why that's a load of bull****. 3 letters - FGM.


WOW....Im not really tryin to make a case for the guy, I'm merely trying to prove that there are far worse things going on in this society than the systematic killing dogs, yet peoplpe turn their heads to it(The mind only sees what it wants to see). The reality is, people have been taking advantage of animals since the beginning of humanity, so why is everyone just getting offended now over it now(do they really care about animal cruelty, or is it just "dog fighting" that's morally wrong....?) Is there an alterier movtive for these impassioned attacks? What i'm trying to say is, people need to look at the bigger picture in life instead of getting their panties in a wad over everything they see on t.v. Vick hasn't even made his defense yet, yet he's already guilty in both the public's eye and in yours as well. REAL MUTURE, KID.

Plus, your right. Moral relativism rejects the idea of an moral objectivity; relativists maintain that all moral judgments either have their origins in society or they are formed through individual standards. No single objective standard exists, in which one can assess the truth of a moral proposition. Therefore, just because something is against the law, that does not autimatically deem it morally wrong, unless of course, you base your morals soley on American law. :greatjob: 

Once again, I agree that what he is facing is, in fact, against the law. I'm not "deflecting" that. But to merely look at Vick as the sole reprobate, of animal cruelty is frivolous, because animal cruel is very real and it is prevalent in our everyday lives. All im saying is, people need to have an open mind, and let the trial play itself out. Let's see what he actually did and did not do, instead of prematurely slapping a lable on him. 

--If the glove don't fit, You must aquit!-- 



> If you're going to try and come back at me, please read up on fallacies first, and stop serving them up. They remind me that I'm arguing with a little kid and that's embarassing for the both of us.


Please save your bullshyt lectures for someone else. I trying to wake people up to a reality. You dont know me, or what iv been through so quit actin like you got your shyt all figured out. 



> 3 letters - FGM.


You're gay, but ok. To each his own.


----------



## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> People are changing all around what they said. First he's a psychotic dog killer because he drowned, hung, and electrocuted dogs. I claim I don't think he was even near those dogs being killed in that manner.
> 
> Than it gets changed up to dog fighting IS killing dogs, you guys will honestly do anything to make this guy look like scum won't you.
> 
> Not to mention the countless number of responses I've given that make whoever I was responding to look bad, and they don't have anything to say back to that. Of course they have no problem quoting and responding to a response I gave somebody ELSE because THAT fits in better with their argument.


Dog fighting isn't killing dogs?


----------



## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> I don't think dog fighting is that bad.


Thanks for making that clear.


----------



## Blue

Jim Rome is hilarious. :rofl2: :lol:


----------



## ATLien

GregOden said:


> Read what I'm about to say, and that should answer your question. Maybe I care to speak about it a little bit more because it's Vick, but my basic feelings on the matter wouldn't change if maybe it had been Portis, or any other player that got hit with these charges.
> 
> This will probably be my last post in the thread.
> 
> * I don't think dog fighting is that bad*. Should it be illegal? Yeah. But *I think serving any amount of jail time for fighting dogs is stupid*. People in America care way too much about their pets, so that's why everybody is freaking out about this. Animals dieing is no strange thing in these worlds, but because it's a pet like a dog everybody exaggerates how serious it is. If he was **** fighting would everybody be as upset? It's still the same deal, he's killing animals in a cruel way. But I highly doubt anybody would care all that much. But it's a dog, it's a household pet so now everybody is going to cry about it because they sympathize with the dogs because they probably have one. Maybe it's just me, but that last sentence made ME laugh out loud. *Anybody that sympathizes with an animal is honestly pathetic in my opinion.* I have three dogs, and I love them to death. *But if somebody killed them I wouldn't expect that person to go to prison for 10 years for it*. That's just bad logic. I'd probably kill them first, but you only get one life to live. *And I think it's wrong to waste human life by letting them rot in jail/prison because they killed an animal*. Only excuse to jail somebody for that is if it's an endangered species, which I'm fairly certain pit bulls are not.
> 
> Ridicule me, hate on me, I really don't care. You guys love your pets way too much, and if you don't have any and you're still flipping out about this, you have pets on way too high of a pedestal. They're animals, not humans. A human life is more important than 100 dogs lives.


This post is filled with ridiculous statements.

Nobody is going to jail for 10 years for nothing. The maximum time Vick can possibly face is 4 years and that was killing multiple animals and for having an interstate ring of competitive dogfighting.

Wow @ this.


----------



## BlakeJesus

TheATLien said:


> This post is filled with ridiculous statements.
> 
> Nobody is going to jail for 10 years for nothing. The maximum time Vick can possibly face is 4 years and that was killing multiple animals and for having an interstate ring of competitive dogfighting.
> 
> Wow @ this.


4 years in jail is still 4 years too long for "killing multiple dogs and having an interstate ring of competitive dogfighting". That's 4 of probably the best years of his life down the drain. No amount of animals lives (unless they're endangered) equates to a human life. That's my point.

By the way, the word competitive was highly unnecessary. What else COULD it be? Friendly dogfighting?


----------



## mediocre man

I love how he showed up at court with corn rows cut. LOL I wonder if his lawyer mentioned to look like a clean cut young man and not a thug. 

note: I don't think corn rows make him look like a thug, but I'm sure some jurrors would.


----------



## ATLien

GregOden said:


> 4 years in jail is still 4 years too long for "killing multiple dogs and having an interstate ring of competitive dogfighting". That's 4 of probably the best years of his life down the drain. No amount of animals lives (unless they're endangered) equates to a human life. That's my point.


Yeah? Well tough ****.

People every day get sentences that **** up "the best years of their life". You gotta deal with it and move on.

I personally think it's BS my cousin had to do almost twice what Vick will serve at the max and he didn't even kill a dog or person.


----------



## Burn

Power_Ballin said:


> WOW....Im not really tryin to make a case for the guy, I'm merely trying to prove that there are far worse things going on in this society than the systematic killing dogs, yet peoplpe turn their heads to it(The mind only sees what it wants to see).


Except we already know worse things are happening and that's irrelevant. If someone is arrested for murder "Well worse things are happening in Darfur" is not a valid defense. And you're lying that this is what you're "merely trying to prove". You're trying to prove something different in every post so long as it alleviates Vick's blame. 


> The reality is, people have been taking advantage of animals since the beginning of humanity, so why is everyone just getting offended now over it now(do they really care about animal cruelty, or is it just "dog fighting" that's morally wrong....?)


They aren't just getting offended now, see, you're a little kid who's only been alive 18 years and has no knowledge of history or the ability to understand another human being so you don't realize that there's more precedent than you can count on your tiny hands. 


> Is there an alterier movtive for these impassioned attacks? What i'm trying to say is, people need to look at the bigger picture in life instead of getting their panties in a wad over everything they see on t.v. Vick hasn't even made his defense yet, yet he's already guilty in both the public's eye and in yours as well. REAL MUTURE, KID.


Alterier movtive? That's hard to say since those are both made up words. But I will say that thankfully, most people (not you) are able to see the big picture. See, you can't imagine people thinking Vick should be punished for his crime while still thinking that other people should be punished for their crimes. In your very, very, VERY small mind, only one thought can exist at any one time, but in ours, many can. That's why I can condemn murder AND child molestation AND dogfighting. You apparently can't. Plus you won't because you like dogfighting and child molestation.
Quit getting your tiny size 0 panties in a wad over people wanting Vick to be held accountable for a crime. The fact that you aren't smart enough to understand a crime that the majority of the population and all 50 state governments have recognized is your cross to bear, Corky.


> Plus, your right. Moral relativism rejects the idea of an moral objectivity; relativists maintain that all moral judgments either have their origins in society or they are formed through individual standards. No single objective standard exists, in which one can assess the truth of a moral proposition. Therefore, just because something is against the law, that does not autimatically deem it morally wrong, unless of course, you base your morals soley on American law. :greatjob:


Yeah that's what I said idiot, your only argument relies on moral relativism. Apparently if the Chinese eat dogs then we should too. Funny thing is, if you called the Chinese law corrupt on a messageboard like you did American law, you'd be arrested. I really wish you'd go live in China.
Also it's funny how you keep glossing over the fact that most everybody believes dogfighting is wrong and instead pretend that it's just a law that came into being and remains on the books for no good reason. It's not like people want it that way or anything, and if they do then they must be way less enlightened than a teenager on an internet board with a poor grasp of his only language who may or may not have a learning disability. 


> Once again, I agree that what he is facing is, in fact, against the law. I'm not "deflecting" that. But to merely look at Vick as the sole reprobate, of animal cruelty is frivolous, because animal cruel is very real and it is prevalent in our everyday lives. All im saying is, people need to have an open mind, and let the trial play itself out. Let's see what he actually did and did not do, instead of prematurely slapping a lable on him.


No, that's not all you're saying. Earlier you said you were merely saying that there are worse things than animal cruelty, now all you're saying is let the trial play itself out? Looks like you just got caught in a lie buddy. Like I said, you're coming up with any excuse you can to defend Vick, you have no consistent defense. 
This argument is also just as stupid as your previous ones since we all support Vick being able to defend himself. No one here is saying "Let's not even give him a trial!" It's just another straw man. And yes, I realize you don't know what straw man means either.


> --If the glove don't fit, You must aquit!--


This is like the 500th word you've spelled wrong in this post. Please stop reminding me that I'm arguing with an infant and pay attention to what you're writing. A few misspelled words I can live with, but if it's the kind of thing that would get you an F in middle school then it's not appropriate for written conversation with a grown up.



> Please save your bullshyt lectures for someone else. I trying to wake people up to a reality. You dont know me, or what iv been through so quit actin like you got your shyt all figured out.


Yeah, I dont know you! Wake up in the mornin and you aks ya self, is life worth livin should you blast ya self? You got like all this pathos and ****, yo. I trying to hustle. 



> You're gay, but ok. To each his own.


lol. In other words, you don't even know what FGM is either. Gold! 
Calling me gay, disguising curse words to bypass the filter, REAL MUTURE kid. Go to college, learn how to spell, and quit dreaming about me and Vick double penetrating you. I'm not interested! (Beyond what I've already done to you in this thread)


----------



## Burn

> Ridicule me, hate on me, I really don't care. You guys love your pets way too much, and if you don't have any and you're still flipping out about this, you have pets on way too high of a pedestal. They're animals, not humans. A human life is more important than 100 dogs lives.


You really don't care, yet you've said that you're done with this thread like 5 times and you keep coming back.

Also, apparently adult society disagrees with you on the worth of a dog.

Also, if you're flipping out about this, then you put your favorite athletes up on way too high of a pedastal.

Also, if Vick was arrested for killing 100 dogs, he would still serve less time than he would for killing a person, so your point, again, is moot. 

Also, if you still haven't noticed, you're completely outclassed.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Burn said:


> You really don't care, yet you've said that you're done with this thread like 5 times and you keep coming back.
> 
> Also, apparently adult society disagrees with you on the worth of a dog.
> 
> Also, if you're flipping out about this, then you put your favorite athletes up on way too high of a pedastal.
> 
> Also, if Vick was arrested for killing 100 dogs, he would still serve less time than he would for killing a person, so your point, again, is moot.
> 
> Also, if you still haven't noticed, you're completely outclassed.


You have no idea what you're saying to be honest. Throughout this thread you've missed everybody's point almost every time, yet you maintain this smug attitude like you're leagues above everybody in intelligence. 

There's really no point arguing with you, because if I make a point...valid or not...you wouldn't understand where I was going with it anyways. Then you'd come up with some sarcastic response that completely misses the nail.

Let me address a few things.

I keep coming back because I'm being responded to, and it seems the responses are just too much for me to ignore. Sue me, I'm not perfect.

And yes adult society does place a high worth on dogs, THAT'S my point big guy. People place TOO MUCH worth on dogs.

No I'm not putting any athlete on a pedestal. It's really simple guy, human live does not = a dogs life. I think it's wrong for somebody to lose part of their life because they killed a dog. Fine them, ridicule them, maybe even put them in a psyche word if it's some psychotic thing (example wouldn't be dog fighting, it would be some weirdo going around kidnapping peoples household dogs and killing them and wearing their fur or whatnot). Human life > dog life. There's my point. Can't put it any simpler than that. 

My point isn't that he's getting more time for killing a dog than a human, I honestly couldn't tell you which part of your *** you pulled that out of. But for conversations sake, lets say he DID kill a human. The court goes through, he gets acquitted. The majority of people will accept him again. And it's tough for you to argue with that, because look at Ray Lewis. Everybody loved him, went to trial for murder, got acquitted, now it's all behind him. But Vick mistreated some dogs, and everybody in America is infatuated with their pets. Even if he gets acquitted from this it's unlikely the majority of people that dislike him now will go back to likening him. They'll always have a bad image of Vick, guilty or not.

Again, outclassed? There's that wonderful sarcasm of yours again. If you could just understand my points (which it seems nobody else is having much of a problem with) this argument would go so much smoother.


----------



## Burn

GregOden said:


> You have no idea what you're saying to be honest. Throughout this thread you've missed everybody's point almost every time, yet you maintain this smug attitude like you're leagues above everybody in intelligence.
> 
> There's really no point arguing with you, because if I make a point...valid or not...you wouldn't understand where I was going with it anyways. Then you'd come up with some sarcastic response that completely misses the nail.
> 
> Let me address a few things.
> 
> I keep coming back because I'm being responded to, and it seems the responses are just too much for me to ignore. Sue me, I'm not perfect.
> 
> And yes adult society does place a high worth on dogs, THAT'S my point big guy. People place TOO MUCH worth on dogs.
> 
> No I'm not putting any athlete on a pedestal. It's really simple guy, human live does not = a dogs life. I think it's wrong for somebody to lose part of their life because they killed a dog. Fine them, ridicule them, maybe even put them in a psyche word if it's some psychotic thing (example wouldn't be dog fighting, it would be some weirdo going around kidnapping peoples household dogs and killing them and wearing their fur or whatnot). Human life > dog life. There's my point. Can't put it any simpler than that.
> 
> My point isn't that he's getting more time for killing a dog than a human, I honestly couldn't tell you which part of your *** you pulled that out of. But for conversations sake, lets say he DID kill a human. The court goes through, he gets acquitted. The majority of people will accept him again. And it's tough for you to argue with that, because look at Ray Lewis. Everybody loved him, went to trial for murder, got acquitted, now it's all behind him. But Vick mistreated some dogs, and everybody in America is infatuated with their pets. Even if he gets acquitted from this it's unlikely the majority of people that dislike him now will go back to likening him. They'll always have a bad image of Vick, guilty or not.
> 
> Again, outclassed? There's that wonderful sarcasm of yours again. If you could just understand my points (which it seems nobody else is having much of a problem with) this argument would go so much smoother.


No idiot, Ray Lewis never went on trial for murder and was never acquitted. He was arrested and immediately struck a plea. God you're dumb. 

And also, you idiot, your arugment has been rebuffed several times. I asked you if someone should go to jail for stealing money (paper) and you said yes. So what, you think paper is more important than a man's life? You don't understand the analogy because you don't understand what an analogy is or what purpose it serves. You don't understand the point of criminal law. You don't understand the concept of criminal justice. You don't understand ****. 

People put too much emphasis on a dogs' lives according to you, a stupid kid. Stupid kids think a lot of things. As I've said multiple times, pretty much everyone disagrees with you and whether you think they're wrong THEY ARE SMARTER AND HAVE REASONS. Your reasons are pathetic and mostly revolve around the idea that dogs aren't the same as humans. Well thanks for that dude, but that was taken into account when the laws were written. And guess what, people actually thought about these laws. These laws didn't spring up out of nowhere. Adults made them. If kids like you made the laws would revolve around cooties and boogers. Get the hell out of this thread and go find one where you can follow the basic idea without tripping over yourself and skinning your knees.


----------



## Mateo

GregOden still doesn't get it. The outrage has less to do with the fact that Vick "killed a few dogs" than because he alleged *tortured* the dogs. He also allegedly participated in executing some dogs by *drowning*, *electrocution* and *slamming them into the ground*. This type of behavior is often found in psychopaths as kids, it's a clear sign that a person doesn't have sympathy for the suffering of others.

If Vick had put the dogs to sleep the outrage would be squarely on the dog fighting part (again, still justified).


----------



## BlakeJesus

This thread has completely veered off topic.

I don't think Vick, or anybody, should be imprisoned for killing dogs. Plain and simple. Suspend him from the NFL, look down at him, fine him, do what you will. But letting him rot in prison for mistreating animals isn't the route that should be taken for anybody.

I'm not saying Vick didn't dogfight, I'm not saying Vick didn't order the execution of animals, and fund it and what not. I do have a hard time believing he himself tortured animals. And yes, I understand that's what the indictment says. However there's a reason it has to go to trial, because what's on the indictment doesn't automatically equal fact.

I'm going into this situation looking at it like this. He did participate in dog fights, and he funded all the dog mistreating and shelters and whatnot. That shouldn't get anything more than a suspension from the league, and a fine. That's the way I see it.

BTW it's not like it should be weird for him to have Vick Kennels and whatever, he is a licensed Pitbull breeder. Though that only makes him look more guilty for dogfighting, it explains the shelters.


----------



## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> I'm going into this situation looking at it like this. He did participate in dog fights, and he funded all the dog mistreating and shelters and whatnot. That shouldn't get anything more than a suspension from the league, and a fine. That's the way I see it.


This is the second time (maybe more) that you said you have no problem with dog fighting, or at least do not think it should be a punishable crime.

Are you really ok with people doing this?


















These pictures are what happens to do a dog unwilling to fight. They are tied up, either alone or to an object, and are used as bait dogs to get the other dogs to fight.


----------



## ATLien

He also said anyone who is compassionate for an animal is "pathetic"


----------



## BlakeJesus

Compassionate enough to send a human to prison for mistreating them, that either came out wrong or you misunderstood me.

I've also said several times that I have three dogs and I love them to death.

You guys are making me out to be some sicko that's ok with hanging dogs and slaughtering them. I'm not. I never said I was "OK" with dogfighting. I said people make too big a deal out of it, and they do. The point being that it IS a big deal, just not as big of one as people make it out to be.


----------



## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> Compassionate enough to send a human to prison for mistreating them, that either came out wrong or you misunderstood me.
> 
> I've also said several times that I have three dogs and I love them to death.
> 
> You guys are making me out to be some sicko that's ok with hanging dogs and slaughtering them. I'm not. I never said I was "OK" with dogfighting. I said people make too big a deal out of it, and they do. The point being that it IS a big deal, just not as big of one as people make it out to be.


Your are blinded by your loyalty for Vick, so much so that I do not think your really even believe what you are arguing for. 

The pictures I posted of dog fighting are very mild. I do not post worse ones out of respect for this board. Any person that can force a dog to suffer in that manner lacks a conscience. It speaks to the soul of who he is.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Charlie Brown said:


> *Your are blinded by your loyalty for Vick, so much so that I do not think your really even believe what you are arguing for.
> *
> The pictures I posted of dog fighting are very mild. I do not post worse ones out of respect for this board. Any person that can force a dog to suffer in that manner lacks a conscience. It speaks to the soul of who he is.


Sadly after seeing those pictures, I believe this is pretty close to the truth.

I'm not a fan of the prison system we have in America, and I don't like just tossing people in there unless its a VERY serious offense. That's where a lot of my argument stems from.


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

Charlie Brown, can you please take the picture out it's very disturbing.


----------



## Blue

GregOden said:


> You have no idea what you're saying to be honest. Throughout this thread you've missed everybody's point almost every time, yet you maintain this smug attitude like you're leagues above everybody in intelligence.
> 
> There's really no point arguing with you, because if I make a point...valid or not...you wouldn't understand where I was going with it anyways. Then you'd come up with some sarcastic response that completely misses the nail.
> 
> Let me address a few things.
> 
> I keep coming back because I'm being responded to, and it seems the responses are just too much for me to ignore. Sue me, I'm not perfect.
> 
> And yes adult society does place a high worth on dogs, THAT'S my point big guy. People place TOO MUCH worth on dogs.
> 
> *No I'm not putting any athlete on a pedestal. It's really simple guy, human live does not = a dogs life. I think it's wrong for somebody to lose part of their life because they killed a dog. Fine them, ridicule them, maybe even put them in a psyche word if it's some psychotic thing (example wouldn't be dog fighting, it would be some weirdo going around kidnapping peoples household dogs and killing them and wearing their fur or whatnot). Human life > dog life. There's my point. Can't put it any simpler than that.
> 
> My point isn't that he's getting more time for killing a dog than a human, I honestly couldn't tell you which part of your *** you pulled that out of. But for conversations sake, lets say he DID kill a human. The court goes through, he gets acquitted. The majority of people will accept him again. And it's tough for you to argue with that, because look at Ray Lewis. Everybody loved him, went to trial for murder, got acquitted, now it's all behind him. But Vick mistreated some dogs, and everybody in America is infatuated with their pets. Even if he gets acquitted from this it's unlikely the majority of people that dislike him now will go back to likening him. They'll always have a bad image of Vick, guilty or not.
> *
> Again, outclassed? There's that wonderful sarcasm of yours again. If you could just understand my points (which it seems nobody else is having much of a problem with) this argument would go so much smoother.


Very Sad, but Very True. :no:


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

GregOden said:


> 4 years in jail is still 4 years too long for "killing multiple dogs and having an interstate ring of competitive dogfighting". That's 4 of probably the best years of his life down the drain. No amount of animals lives (unless they're endangered) equates to a human life. That's my point.
> 
> By the way, the word competitive was highly unnecessary. What else COULD it be? Friendly dogfighting?



so i have a question...it may have already been answered but i dont want to read 8 pages of posts to find out...who _do_ you think should be in jail??? only murderers??? should people who attempt armed robbery not go to jail because they didnt hurt anyone??? should tim donaghy not go to jail because all he did was give insider information to people to make bets, no biggie...should someone who drives drunk not go to jail if they didnt hurt anyone??? the law is the law...if you break it you go to jail...it seems like the only people that you think should be in jail are serial killers and we should just let everyone else run wild on the streets...its laughable really


----------



## BlakeJesus

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> so i have a question...it may have already been answered but i dont want to read 8 pages of posts to find out...who _do_ you think should be in jail??? only murderers??? should people who attempt armed robbery not go to jail because they didnt hurt anyone??? should tim donaghy not go to jail because all he did was give insider information to people to make bets, no biggie...should someone who drives drunk not go to jail if they didnt hurt anyone??? the law is the law...if you break it you go to jail...it seems like the only people that you think should be in jail are serial killers and we should just let everyone else run wild on the streets...its laughable really


You've missed my point completely. Human life > dog life. Human life = Human life.

If you do something to drastically affect another humans life negatively (you know what I mean) than yeah, you should be punished for it.


----------



## Mateo

No one, I repeat no one, thinks that a dog's life is equal to a human's life. Except for _maybe_ the most extremist of the animal rights crowd. You're really arguing with yourself alone. No one here is arguing that Vick should receive the same level of treatment as if he had done these things to humans. If he had murdered 7 humans through drowning, electrocuting, and pounding them into the pavement, he would not be given bail and would be facing a death sentence.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Mateo said:


> No one, I repeat no one, thinks that a dog's life is equal to a human's life. Except for _maybe_ the most extremist of the animal rights crowd. You're really arguing with yourself alone. No one here is arguing that Vick should receive the same level of treatment as if he had done these things to humans. If he had murdered 7 humans through drowning, electrocuting, and pounding them into the pavement, he would not be given bail and would be facing a death sentence.



exactly...



and ok so an animals life means nothing...so everyone should go out and do inhumane things to them because their lives arent worth **** and noone should get punished for it...ok.

EDIT: if its not clear enough i am being completely sarcastic in this statement, i guess i need to spell it out for some ppl


----------



## Coatesvillain

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> and ok so an animals life means nothing...so everyone should go out and do inhumane things to them because their lives arent worth **** and noone should get punished for it...ok.


I would like to smash your head into concrete for this retarded statement.

Who the hell said anything like that? I mean seriously..


----------



## Mateo

Coatesvillain said:


> I would like to smash your head into concrete for this retarded statement.
> 
> Who the hell said anything like that? I mean seriously..


GregOden is arguing that animal cruelty should not be a crime.



GregOden said:


> I think it's wrong for somebody to lose part of their life because they killed a dog.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Coatesvillain said:


> I would like to smash your head into concrete for this retarded statement.
> 
> Who the hell said anything like that? I mean seriously..




relax, buddy...if you had read that post completely or my previous post you would realize that im being ridiculously sarcastic because gregoden is basically arguing that point and i do not agree with him


----------



## Coatesvillain

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> relax, buddy...if you had read that post completely or my previous post you would realize that im being ridiculously sarcastic because gregoden is basically arguing that point and i do not agree with him


Uh, I know that.

It's terrible sarcasm.


----------



## ATLien

I wouldn't have said nothing if GregOden and the rest of yall just said "people need to chill until the court plays its role". That's fine by me. But people seem to want to take it a step farther than that taking it to an extreme, being no different than the PETA people who take it a step too far to the extreme.

To be honest.. the PETA freaks and the Vick sympathizers piss me off equally.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Coatesvillain said:


> Uh, I know that.
> 
> It's terrible sarcasm.




riiiiiight...so greg oden calls says "people who sympathize with animals are pathetic" as a serious statement and you wanna bash my head in because i arite an overwhelmingly sarcastic statement to mock odens comments, whatever



anyway...lets see what happens with the case, but in all honesty they apparently have ALOT of evidence against vick...doesnt look good for him


----------



## BlakeJesus

I'm tempted to delete every post in this thread that I made, because everything is being taken out of context to boost your own personal arguments.

Animal cruelty SHOULD be punished, I specifically said he should be suspended, fined, and all that jazz. I said JAIL TIME shouldn't be an option. 

And again, I meant anybody that sympathizes enough with an animal to put somebody in PRISON FOR YEARS for mistreating them, IMO, is pathetic. Humans life > dog life.

Unless you're 1AWF, you probably aren't taking that as I think dogs lives are meaningless. HOWEVER, they aren't as important as a human life...do you disagree with that? Do you think a dogs life, in any instance, is more important than a human life? It's pretty pathetic 1AWF that your only response back to that was extreme sarcasm that blatantly over exaggerated my statement. I really don't even think you thought that was what I meant, you just decided to blow it out of proportion because you had a neat little comeback in mind. If I say human life > dog life, and out of that you get the idea that I think it's OK for everybody just go around and randomly smash dogs heads into the concrete I think that says more about the way you think than anything I've said.

It seems like 90% of you have made it your personal job to twist and contort everything I say.


----------



## ATLien

I didn't twist your words. I bolded what you actually posted. Maybe you should type more thought out posts the next time?


----------



## BlakeJesus

TheATLien said:


> I didn't twist your words. I bolded what you actually posted. Maybe you should type more thought out posts the next time?


I DID say 90%. :biggrin:


----------



## Mateo

GregOden said:


> I'm tempted to delete every post in this thread that I made, because everything is being taken out of context to boost your own personal arguments.
> 
> Animal cruelty SHOULD be punished, I specifically said he should be suspended, fined, and all that jazz. I said JAIL TIME shouldn't be an option.
> 
> And again, I meant anybody that sympathizes enough with an animal to put somebody in PRISON FOR YEARS for mistreating them, IMO, is pathetic. Humans life > dog life.
> 
> Unless you're 1AWF, you probably aren't taking that as I think dogs lives are meaningless. HOWEVER, they aren't as important as a human life...do you disagree with that? Do you think a dogs life, in any instance, is more important than a human life? It's pretty pathetic 1AWF that your only response back to that was extreme sarcasm that blatantly over exaggerated my statement. I really don't even think you thought that was what I meant, you just decided to blow it out of proportion because you had a neat little comeback in mind. If I say human life > dog life, and out of that you get the idea that I think it's OK for everybody just go around and randomly smash dogs heads into the concrete I think that says more about the way you think than anything I've said.
> 
> It seems like 90% of you have made it your personal job to twist and contort everything I say.



No, you have done a poor job at stating your opinion. Saying "human life > dog life" doesn't make much sense. It makes it sound like anyone who disagrees with your position (and that's the overwhelming majority of the country), thinks that animal and human life is equal, which they absolutely do not.

What you should be saying is "I think animal cruelty is a *minor* crime". That seems to be your actual position.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Mateo said:


> *No, you have done a poor job at stating your opinion. Saying "human life > dog life" doesn't make much sense. It makes it sound like anyone who disagrees with your position (and that's the overwhelming majority of the country), thinks that animal and human life is equal, which they absolutely do not.*
> 
> What you should be saying is "I think animal cruelty is a *minor* crime". That seems to be your actual position.


I'm curious what you mean by this.

I said human lives are more important than dogs life, in simple form that looks like human life > dog life. But you said anybody who disagrees with that doesn't think a dogs life is equivalent to a human life. So then, wouldn't that mean human life is greater than dog life? If they're not equal...

I really just don't understand what you're saying is all. Maybe that's my bad for not understanding it, but it doesn't seem to make much sense. 

I hope that sounds as sincere as it really is.


----------



## Mateo

GregOden said:


> I'm curious what you mean by this.
> 
> I said human lives are more important than dogs life, in simple form that looks like human life > dog life. But you said anybody who disagrees with that doesn't think a dogs life is equivalent to a human life. So then, wouldn't that mean human life is greater than dog life? If they're not equal...
> 
> I really just don't understand what you're saying is all. Maybe that's my bad for not understanding it, but it doesn't seem to make much sense.
> 
> I hope that sounds as sincere as it really is.


I'm saying that *everyone* participating in this thread thinks that humans lives are more valuable than dog lives. By stating your contrarian opinion as "human life > dog life" you _make it sound_ like everyone else here doesn't hold human lives as more important. That's why it doesn't make any sense to posit your opinion like that.

What does make sense is if you say that you consider animal cruelty to be a minor crime with a penalty that can not reach the level of jail time.


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## BlakeJesus

Mateo said:


> I'm saying that *everyone* participating in this thread thinks that humans lives are more valuable than dog lives. By stating your contrarian opinion as "human life > dog life" you _make it sound_ like everyone else here doesn't hold human lives as more important. That's why it doesn't make any sense to posit your opinion like that.
> 
> *What does make sense is if you say that you consider animal cruelty to be a minor crime with a penalty that can not reach the level of jail time.*


That sounds close to right.

Here's how I think Vick's situation should be handled, and you can deem it minor or not after you hear it.

He should be suspended from the league, fined a hefty amount, and loose his breeding license. Not to mention the fact (I would assume this already happened, hence me never mentioning it) all his dogs that he currently own should be taken away. And he should be banned from owning anymore pitbulls.

I'd consider that a pretty serious punishment. I'm just not a fan of throwing around jail time.


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## o.iatlhawksfan

^^^

No!

He deserves a good amount of jail time. 

Somebody who does something needs to face some time, behind bars!


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

GregOden said:


> I'm curious what you mean by this.
> 
> *I said human lives are more important than dogs life, in simple form that looks like human life > dog life.* But you said anybody who disagrees with that doesn't think a dogs life is equivalent to a human life. So then, wouldn't that mean human life is greater than dog life? If they're not equal...
> 
> I really just don't understand what you're saying is all. Maybe that's my bad for not understanding it, but it doesn't seem to make much sense.
> 
> I hope that sounds as sincere as it really is.



YES...HUMAN LIVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT...I AGREE!!! thats obvious...its like arguing that grass is green...of course human lives are more important than dog lives...thats why if vick tortured and killed humans hes be facing the death penalty but it was dogs so hes facing 6 years...the law acknowledges that human lives are more important...but just because human lives are more important doesnt mean a person shouldnt get any jailtime at all for torturing and killing animals, which is your stance exactly


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## Charlie Brown

GregOden said:


> Animal cruelty SHOULD be punished, I specifically said he should be suspended, fined, and all that jazz. I said JAIL TIME shouldn't be an option.


If Vick hurt one or two dogs, I highly doubt the Feds would be trying to put him in prison.

Vick hurt and killed thousands of dogs over a course of years, while illegally betting on them (also a serious crime).

In your scenario, someone could kill every dog in the world and should not go to jail because human life > dog life. At some point, the volume of dogs Vick cruelly killed (see the pictures I posted) comes into play.


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## BlakeJesus

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> YES...HUMAN LIVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT...I AGREE!!! thats obvious...its like arguing that grass is green...of course human lives are more important than dog lives...thats why if vick tortured and killed humans hes be facing the death penalty but it was dogs so hes facing 6 years...the law acknowledges that human lives are more important...but just because human lives are more important doesnt mean a person shouldnt get any jailtime at all for torturing and killing animals, which is your stance exactly


That's your opinion, obviously we disagree.


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## Mateo

GregOden said:


> That sounds close to right.
> 
> Here's how I think Vick's situation should be handled, and you can deem it minor or not after you hear it.
> 
> He should be suspended from the league, fined a hefty amount, and loose his breeding license. Not to mention the fact (I would assume this already happened, hence me never mentioning it) all his dogs that he currently own should be taken away. And he should be banned from owning anymore pitbulls.
> 
> I'd consider that a pretty serious punishment. I'm just not a fan of throwing around jail time.


The courts can not suspend Vick from his job, so that's not a punishment that has anything to do with the law. In pertaining to law you seem to say that:

Fines
Revoking of breeding license

is sufficient for cruel executions (hanging, electrocution, drowning, beating on the ground) of at least 7 dogs and an innumerable amount of torture to dogs through forcing them to fight to the death?

Ok, I guess, but you're going to find yourself in the minority here. This punishment you suggest is roughly equivalent to speeding violations.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

GregOden said:


> That's your opinion, obviously we disagree.




uhhh its not my opinion...its the law in the United States of America...its _your_ opinion that the law is wrong...because you know alot more than the government


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## Coatesvillain

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> uhhh its not my opinion...its the law in the United States of America...its _your_ opinion that the law is wrong...because you know alot more than the government


So that's your approach the government is right, anyone who disagrees is wrong? Or are you only using this stance in this argument?


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## Blue

Charlie Brown said:


> If Vick hurt one or two dogs, I highly doubt the Feds would be trying to put him in prison.
> 
> Vick hurt and killed thousands of dogs over a course of years, while illegally betting on them (also a serious crime).
> 
> In your scenario, someone could kill every dog in the world and should not go to jail because human life > dog life. At some point, the volume of dogs Vick cruelly killed (see the pictures I posted) comes into play.


Well first off, you dont even know how many dogs Vick personally fought or killed, none of us do, so how can you even make those claims. Secondly, he wasnt just gathering random dogs, as you suggest.....he used dogs that were bred for the specific purpose of fighting.....we know this cause he owned a kennel in his name. It's just like how people breed other animals for other specific things. Now what else you assume he did is all up to you, but dont try to play off other things as if they are fact, just because they support your argument. Yes, people should be valued over animals, that is obvious but to argue that what Vick does warrants 6 years in prison, I have a tough time accepting as well. Fact is, U.S. incarceration rate is the highest in the world. Just because something is a US law, does not automatically make it a perfect law. Our harsh sentencing requires continuous building and overcrowding of Federal, state and local prisons and that ultimately comes back out of the taxpayers pocket. Now if you think all laws are perfect, that is your opinion, but not everyone feels the same way as you.


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## ATLien

Coatesvillain said:


> So that's your approach the government is right, anyone who disagrees is wrong? Or are you only using this stance in this argument?


I don't believe he was saying the government is always right, he was just pointing out that what he posted wasn't his opinion but was the law (GregOden before replied to him "thats your opinion)..


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## Charlie Brown

Power_Ballin said:


> Well first off, you dont even know how many dogs Vick personally fought or killed, none of us do, so how can you even make those claims. Secondly, he wasnt just gathering random dogs, as you suggest.....he used dogs that were bred for the specific purpose of fighting.....we know this cause he owned a kennel in his name. It's just like how people breed other animals for other specific things. Now what else you assume he did is all up to you, but dont try to play off other things as if they are fact, just because they support your argument. Yes, people should be valued over animals, that is obvious but to argue that what Vick does warrants 6 years in prison, I have a tough time accepting as well. Fact is, U.S. incarceration rate is the highest in the world. Just because something is a US law, does not automatically make it a perfect law. Our harsh sentencing requires continuous building and overcrowding of Federal, state and local prisons and that ultimately comes back out of the taxpayers pocket. Now if you think all laws are perfect, that is your opinion, but not everyone feels the same way as you.


Whenever you go to college, take a logic and argument class. It will help you a great deal. You have a hard time making a point and discussing it. Plus, your logic is all over the place.

I am basing my opinion on the indictment against Vick. That doesn't mean it is fact, but it is what I believe. The indictment states that Vick has been involved in dog fighting for a long time and killed many dogs.

And this discussion IS about dog fighting. How people rightly or wrongly raise animals for other causes is irrelevant to this discussion. The act of dog fighting, especially on the scale Vick is being accused of, definitely warrants some jail time.


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## BlakeJesus

TheATLien said:


> I don't believe he was saying the government is always right, he was just pointing out that what he posted wasn't his opinion but was the law (GregOden before replied to him "thats your opinion)..


But Coates point still stands. What AWF posted WAS the law, but like Coates said just because it's a law doesn't make it perfect. 

Mainly because AWF just had to throw in some sarcasm into the mix by saying "its your opinion that the law is wrong...because you know alot more than the government". He's basically saying the government is right, and I disagree so I'm wrong.

Coates point is valid if you look at it.


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## ATLien

Coates' points are never valid. Just a general rule of thumb.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Coatesvillain said:


> So that's your approach the government is right, anyone who disagrees is wrong? Or are you only using this stance in this argument?




are you ever going to read my posts before replying??? ATL was right...i never said the government is always right...i said that was not my opinion that was the law...and that is a correct statement...read a book or 2 itll increase your ability to comprehend



GregOden said:


> He's basically saying the government is right, and I disagree so I'm wrong.



dont tell people what i am "basically saying"...show me where i said "the government is right"...i was stating that its not my opinion its the law...you disagree and think animal torturing deserves a fine and a suspended liscense...like its littering on the highway or something...thats your opinion...if you wanna stick to it great have fun


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## o.iatlhawksfan

little more news.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2954244


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## BlakeJesus

Just let this thread die. There's nothing left to discuss until the verdict is handed out.


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## ATLien

Taylor took the plea. Vick is ****ed.


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## I Own 2 Microwaves

Brian Brohm's #12 Falcons Jersey Going On Sale NOW


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## Blue

Vick LOVES dogs!!!!!!

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