# 2005 off-season is the SG FA year - who can we get?!



## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Lots of Good wing players coming up this off-season , And we gotta do our best imo to get one. The fact that so many R on the market and not many teams have more than the MLE gives us some options , some of them might be very surprising by not taking more than the MLE.

I'd separate them to a few groups:

Out of our reach without any trade: 

*Ray Allen* - Max
*Redd* - Max
*Joe Johnson* - Big contract

I believe teams with money looking for a sg will spend their money on one of those 3. Thats also the reason good wing players might get only an mle offer while in a different situation They'd get more.

Surprisingly might turn out being within our reach: 

*Bobby Simmons* - Maybe slightly above MLE , Depends where the 1st 3 go.Might wanna return to Chicago area.*Unrestricted!!* 
*Larry Hughes* - with the season he's having , it looks like more than MLE.I don't believe Wiz's have more than that to offer him , especially if they plan to keep Kwame. He'd be an amazing pick for us , but unlikely. His contract might also take a hit due to the top 3.*Unrestricted!!!!* 
*Jaric * - although having a good season when he's playing , his injuries will cut deeply in his new to come contract. For us , It's a fit , Big , defends well , has PG skills. I think he'll get less than MLE, but close.*restricted.*
*Spree* - he won't be able to feed his familywith the cut in salary coming his way.He's turning 35 , he doesn't behave , and he's a nutcase. Although with a head on his shoulders he can help us tons , I don't believe Pax would even check him out.*Unrestricted.* 
*Kyle Krover* - Great shooter. Surprisingly decent defender as i see it. Phily would match , but they got Delembert as well.will probably get around MLE.I'd love to get him , especially to help our weak offense , but very unlikely.Does he count against their MLE??*Restricted.* 

Good wing player I believe would take less than MLE: 

*Devin Brown * - Intense energetic guy I'd love to see in Bulls Uni. SA has Barry and Manu , so not sure they'd match offers.I believe a 4 year 11 mil would be enough.*Restricted.* 
*Raja Bell* - Having a good season in a team having an awful season. Good defensive player with nice stroke from 3p land. A very nice Fit and a 4 year 12 mil should do.*Unrestricted!!* 
*Antonio Daniels* - having a good season , More of a big PG with scoring skills. Although deserving MLE I think he'll get less (past injuries also a factor).*Unrestricted!* 
*Casey Jacobson* - good shooter , not great defender. around 3 mil or even less.*Unrestricted* .

Other sg options for less money - around 2-4 mil (some more): 

*Keith Bogans* - nice intense gaurd who's future with very young Bobcats ain't clear (might sign Rush and Wallace at 3). Cheaper , and fit for less minutes. Has some offense too.*Restricted.* 
*Kareem Rush* - maybe signed again by Bobcats.Not the defensive stopper at 2.has size , has shooting touch.*Unrestricted.* 
*Jeff McInnis* - more than the 2 mil of course , likely to stay in Cleveland. Has size for a pg , having a good season.very unlikely for us.*Unrestricted.* 
*The Glove* - again , not a sg , will take more than 2 mil , unlikely for us. Still a good defender (not great like he used to) and *Unrestricted.*
*Flip Murray* - won't get what he wants.3-4 mil I guess. Very good scorer. Bad defender. Not the character for Pax/Skiles.*Restricted.* 
*Maurice Evans* - having a nice season.*Restricted.*
*Willie Green* - If Sixers resign Delembert and Krover - not much room for a guy that had nice stretches during the season.*Restricted.* 
*Rodney Rogers* - Vet , Good shooter. Not expensive I would guess. turning 34 Y/O.*Unrestricted.* 

Unclear future(injuries): 

*Bobby Jackson* 
*Kerry Kittles* 
*Voshon Lenard* 

Other possible SG's that can help only as role players: 

*Jason Kapono* (Restricted)
*Bostjan Nachbar* (Unrestricted)
*Bryon Russel* - Grif with a 3p shot.35 y/o.(Unrestricted)
*Jon Barry* - great shooter.Has energy.36 y/o.(Unrestricted)
*Shandon Anderson* -Good Defender.(Unrestricted)
*Steve Smith* - (Unrestricted)
*Anthony Peeler* - (Unrestricted)
*Richie Frahm* - for some reason I like him.Good shooter.(Unrestricted)

There R also *Juan Dixon* and *Tyronn Lue* that R too small and not as good as Ben.


As U can see - thats lots of SG's , what I believe will result in some of them getting less then what they deserve/expect. I hope Pax can use this SG situation for our benefit and get one for a reasonable price.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Simmons has been as good as anyone on our team this year. He would function well within our system, since he thrives off of catch and shoot situations and rarely forces things. He plays good defense as well. Simmons is a player who hits most of his jumpers on the baseline though, I'd say atleast 75-80% of them are along the baseline.


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

Jaric, Brown, or Bell are the 3 players we should focus on

IMO, Jaric should be the one we try for first... a tall Guard that has point guard skills.... PERFECT FIT for the situation we have.... give Kirk a break, and can play PG while Ben plays SG and tall enough to defend the SG position without too much trouble


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## bbertha37 (Jul 21, 2004)

Jaric would be ideal if only he could stay healthy.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Great post, Bullet.

I was very hot for Jaric until he got his hip pointer in one minute of play against the Bulls. Come on! He's an injury marvel and the time off has really hurt his stock in my eyes. Fair or not, that's how I see Marko these days. 

I'd pretty much do anything for Joe Johnson...including some kind of wacky trade involving our core or even moving *gasp* Kirk or Ben. There's no real way to do this that makes much sense, though. By the way--I don't necessarily think Joe is _ better _ per se than where Kirk/Ben are/might get to, I just think that there are better ways to spread your talent then in two streaky combo guards. 

I don't think the ever so slighthly overrated Michael Redd (my opinion) or the ever so slighthly over aged Ray Allen are worth the same kind of sacrifices a young Joe Johnson at not quite a max deal is worth. 

I think Larry Hughes will get a contract much closer to Johnson/Redd than Korver/Simmons. I'd love Hughes but don't see us getting him without trading a core piece and he's not _ quite _ worth that...but Hughes is mighty close. I think he's a fantastic fit.

Korver would be nice but isn't exactly what we need to go with Hinrich/Kirk/Duhon. I could see it if Duhon goes, though. Not worth cutting into Kirk or Ben's minutes, however...provided Kirk shoots a bit better next year and Ben shoots like we've seen him do.

Spree and Skiles? Maybe on Celebrity Boxing...

Simmons is overrated, in my opinion, and is more a small forward than a shooting guard/point guard. He'd compete more with Deng and, with Noc around, we don't need anyone gathering minutes at the three. 

McInnis could be a nice fit but that means no more Duhon. Not sure the gib/chemistry issues there merit that. Same with Payton--who's older and not interested in a non-title contender to boot. 

No need for Murray or Evans or Green or Jackson with Gordon around. No interest in Jacobsen (no D), Shandon Anderson (personal dislike  ), Smith/Peeler/Russel/Barry (age and PT issues, save maybe for Smith), or Frahm (adds little that Pike doesn't have except for youth). Kapono is mildly intriguing though he's more a three than a two.

That leaves Nachbar as an interesting idea (keep Duhon, Bostjan being an interesting option towards the end of the bench for a matchup exploit...I don't think he'll be expensive.) Rodney Rogers could be the versatile rebounding large body that plays a variety of roles for this team...I think he'd be a decent fit with the Bulls style of play, even if he is an old fat man. Voshon Lenard could really be a good fit...but we'd have to lose Duhon to afford him, I'd imagine. Kittles is more of a question mark than Lenard, injury wise, but might be cheaper...I'd take him, but not at the cost of Duhon. Brown, Bell and Daniels are also all very high on my list...but only make sense as Duhon replacements. Over Duhon, I'd take Daniels if he's healthy and maybe Raja Bell. I'd keep Duhon over Brown at this point.

Okay, after all of this I think it's become clear that there aren't enough minutes for a big acquisition and Duhon/Kirk/Ben to split. Either we bite the bullet and move one of our core pieces for arguably equal talent and better fit (Hinrich or Gordon in some wacky move to free up space for a Joe Johnson type) or we do the probably most sensible thing of letting Duhon go and signing a better fitting third guard like Lenard, Daniels, or Jaric. Or we do the most conservative and most likely thing and bring back Duhon along with another marginal guy like Bogans or Nachbar. Again, Rodney Rogers might be a good overall match for our needs. 

When it comes down to it, I'm a loyalist that would like to keep everyone. Keep Duhon, fill in the gaps if you must, and let's take our chances. I'm just not *sold* on Gordon/Hinrich/Duhon being any kind of long-term succesful backcourt. Not just size...but, well, Gordon is no point guard and Kirk is more _ valuable _ as a point. 

Them's my :twocents:.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Mcinnis is piss. Cleveland will let him walk, and we would be wise to avoid him.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

I believe Duhon will count against part of our MLE. Due to that part, we will not have the full MLE unless we let Duhon walks.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

Let's not forget that Paxson persued Anderson after he was bought out by the Knicks. Maybe he might take another crack at him this summer. WHen i loook at the FA list, i look at the names of the bottom of the list, because they are the most realistic.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Although I agree Simmons is more of a sg/sf type , with no PG skills , I still think he's a great fit.
My reasoning is I do think Ben can play some minutes at PG , Cause he definately has the passing skills.
Simmons is a highly efficient player , a very tough defensive player.
He's one of the players I'd be willing to let Duhon go if we can get him with the full MLE.He's young (not 25 yet) , strong as a bull.He would fit the skiles type of play and is a player that can not only help us defensively agaist the sg position but also offensively. *And to be truthful - we need more help offensively than on D!* 

I think a backcourt rotation Ben/Kirk/Simmons works with any 2 of them on court at the same time , and is worth losing Du for (unless lle is enough).

Although I like JJ - I would not trade Kirk/Ben for him straight up. Kirk is still our defensive leader and Ben - I just think he's already close to being a better player than JJ , and will turn out being a level above JJ.

I'd stay away from Jaric - really great fit , but only when healthy , and thats a big ?? about him.

If not Simmons - Raja/Devin would be very nice fits for us - good D, some scoring abilities and overall toughness. With them I believe we'd be able to keep Du as well and backcourt rotation would look : Ben,Kirk,Du , Raja/Devin.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

It's highly likely Hinrich and Gordon will be starting PG & SG for the Bulls next year, which I think rules out Simmons. He'd want to start somewhere. I agree that there is a need for a defensive minded SG, rather than a shooter such as Pike.

My thinking is you bring back the guys you have unless you can improve. Jaric is the best fit, but with his injuries, I'd stay clear of him. Gordon has not proved to me he can play PG, which means you either bring back Duhon or go for someone else. Antonio Daniels could be a very nice fit, as a guy who can play 1 & 2, and is a good defender even though he is short.

I think the likely scenario will be to bring back Duhon and sign someone such as Raja Bell or Devin Brown, though both could be hard to get. I think Bell could get a contract starting at $3m per season, so it could depend on how much we can get Duhon for using the MLE, or the Million Dollar Exception. While Brown is behind Ginobili and Barry in SA, he has been their back up SF and done OK. He may not want to leave San Antonio. I mean, he's with a championship contender, and unless he gets a lot more money, he'd be playing a similar role on the Bulls. Why would he want to leave?

The simple fact is that unless Paxson can find a guy who can play PG & SG, and is a good defender on SG more importantly, such as Daniels or Jaric, there is no point using the whole MLE on a guy will be a back up to Gordon, who'll probably be playing 16-20 mins a night, especially if Duhon is brought back as well.

I think some other guys to be considered will be Shandon Anderson, Keith Bogans and Willie Green. I think if we maybe look to trade for someone, especially if someone gave Duhon a big offer, it could be John Salmons.


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## Thorgal (Feb 1, 2003)

bullet said:


> Out of our reach without any trade:
> 
> *Ray Allen* - Max
> *Redd* - Max
> ...


If I can throw in my few cents...

I don't think *Redd* will get a max contract. He's not even a bordeline franchise player. 

Sure he's best guy on his team and is averaging well over 20ppg for 2nd straight season. But lets not forget that Bucks ale pretty bad team with no other true scorer (D-Mase is not the one). Beside being efficent scorer and a good guy he's not doing much else. He average defender, passer and rebounder.

I know Cavs are high on him, so does Bucks - but, I just don't believe that the guy will get the max.

*Hughes* in the other hand is having outstanding, and I mean outstanding, season. If he can keep playing on this level AFTER getting a contract I'm sure few teams would give him a max deal. But because of the uncertainty on "contract year" players, I doubt he will get one.
Anyway, he's such a great fit for any up-tempo team.
So I really don't understand why he's on "slightly over MLE" group.

IMO Hughes will get as good deal as Redd and a much better one than *JJ*, who's a very good player but is no more than 2nd option on a bad team and 3-4 option on a good team.


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## Thorgal (Feb 1, 2003)

As for FA GF my ranking is (I only include the guys we have a shoot at):

Bobby Simmons (full MLE, 4-5 years)
Devin Brown (not full MLE, 4-5 years)
Raja Bell (not full MLE, 3 years)
Marko Jarić (full MLE, 4-5 years)
Kyle Korver (full MLE, 4-5 years)
Keith Bogans (LLE)
Willie Green (not full MLE, 3 years)
Maurice Evans (LLE)
Antonio Daniels (not full MLE, 2 years)
Casey Jacobsen (LLE)
Kareem Rush (LLE)

I say NO to: Spree, Flip, McInnis, Glove, Lenard & Shandon


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

Simmons would be great if we could get him.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

I would love to get either Jaric, Simmons, or Hughes... Bell or Korver would also be excellant additions.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Simmons would be a great fit. Hughes would be amazing but he will get more than we can afford to offer. Simmons is a possibility for an MLE deal at least.

What about Gerald Wallace? I know he is more of a sf but he can move over to the 2 as well and has had a pretty solid year for Charlotte but is probably ready for a move back to the NBA and can probably be had for around the MLE. Hard worker, good defender, seems to have a nice jib.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

this sucks, so many good wing players and we have no capspace:curse:.....

and in the summer of 2k6 the only good wing player i can think of who is available is pietrus....


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> Simmons would be a great fit. Hughes would be amazing but he will get more than we can afford to offer. Simmons is a possibility for an MLE deal at least.
> 
> What about Gerald Wallace? I know he is more of a sf but he can move over to the 2 as well and has had a pretty solid year for Charlotte but is probably ready for a move back to the NBA and can probably be had for around the MLE. Hard worker, good defender, seems to have a nice jib.



I just noticed your signature... glad you finally came around!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

HAWK23 said:


> I just noticed your signature... glad you finally came around!



I lost a bet!!!!


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> I lost a bet!!!!


hey, that's the excuse I would make too if something finally clicked after that long :biggrin:


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

My List

1) Raja Bell
2) Devin Brown
3) Antonio Daniels
4) Anthony Parker
5) Maurice Evans
6) Kareem Rush
7) Keith Bogans


Shandon Anderson- maybe if we bring in 2 sg's, he'll probaly get vet min.

Mcginnis, Green, Flip - too small

Payton- signed with Boston

Rodgers- ?

Korver- matched

Simmons- a pure 3

Jaric- would be #1 on list if not for injury

Hughes_worth too much

Spreee- bad fit

Jacobsen + Leonardo- not what we need


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## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

With this team being so close to being a contender, I think Pax & Reinsdorf need to go for the gold!!! With that in mind, here are my top 5 choices for our sg position:








#1. Joe Johnson
Height: 6' 7"
Weight: 230 lbs.
Position: Shooting Guard
College: Arkansas
Born: 29th June, 1981
Experience: 3 Seasons
Add JJ to this Bulls squad and eliminate worry over the backcourt for the next 12 years! He and Gordon could be a championship pairing.








#2. Ray Allen
Height: 6' 5"
Weight: 205 lbs.
Position: Shooting Guard
College: Connecticut
Born: 20th July, 1975
Experience: 8 Seasons
Add Ray to this Bulls squad and eliminate worry over the backcourt for the next 5 years! He and Gordon could be a championship pairing.








#3. Marko Jaric
Height: 6' 7"
Weight: 217 lbs.
Position: Point Guard
College: Kinder Bologna (Italy)
Born: 12th October, 1978
Experience: 2 Seasons
A poor man's Joe Johnson. He would be a very nice addition, but definately a consolation prize. Might be injury prone.








#4. Larry Hughes
Height: 6' 5"
Weight: 184 lbs.
Position: Shooting Guard
College: St. Louis
Born: 23rd January, 1979
Experience: 6 Seasons
Not a Pax/Skiles type IMO, but his talent level and the chance to weaken a conference rival warrants his consideration. Might be injury prone.








#5. Kareem Rush
Height: 6' 6"
Weight: 215 lbs.
Position: Shooting Guard
College: Missouri
Born: 30th October, 1980
Experience: 2 Seasons
Great scorer, but can Skiles teach him defense? If not, no sense signing him if he won't be playing in the games.

Just Do It, Baby!


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Give me one reason why Michael Redd is better than Joe Johnson. Then look at their career statistics and give me that reason again because I probably still don't believe you.

Johnson is a better defender (not even close) and is more athletic. His shooting has been red hot. Wait...strike that...much BETTER than Redd Hot.

I'm pretty sure he's worth a Gordon level trade...but I wouldn't make that trade as the risk is far too high. As there's no way PHO would sign and trade JJ without a piece like Gordon in return, this really isn't even worth talking about. 

After Raja Bell's quotes today calling out the heart of his teammates in Utah, he earned some points with me. He seems like a total Pax/Skiles guy and I'll never forget his defense for that Philly finals team. As the parallels to that team abound, Bell really is a great fit. Say goodbye to Duhon, though, because even if we can afford both, it makes no sense to have both...or for Bell to sign here if Duhon stays.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

BealeFarange said:


> After Raja Bell's quotes today calling out the heart of his teammates in Utah, he earned some points with me. He seems like a total Pax/Skiles guy and I'll never forget his defense for that Philly finals team. As the parallels to that team abound, Bell really is a great fit. <b>Say goodbye to Duhon, though, because even if we can afford both, it makes no sense to have both...or for Bell to sign here if Duhon stays.</b>


Actually, I disagree with that. If we get Bell we absolutely need Duhon to resign because I can't recall Bell ever playing PG. Now if we get Antonio Daniels or Jaric then Duhon might be expendable, but not the case for Bell. Besides, with 96 backcourt minutes you're asking Bell to play ~30 mpg. Not sure how enticing a backcourt of Gordon and Bell looks like for extended periods of time. 

Can Bell give us some spot minutes at the 3 and provide some insurance in case Deng/Noc ever go down?


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## Thorgal (Feb 1, 2003)

BealeFarange said:


> Give me one reason why Michael Redd is better than Joe Johnson. Then look at their career statistics and give me that reason again because I probably still don't believe you.
> 
> Johnson is a better defender (not even close) and is more athletic. His shooting has been red hot. Wait...strike that...much BETTER than Redd Hot.



As I've stated before I'm not high on Redd, not at all.

However he IS better player than Joe Jonhson.

You're talking about shooting %. Sure this season Joe is shooting way better than Redd. But while defenders of the others team is always focus on Redd first and foremost, Joe is enjoying the fact, tha he often has a lot of space - defenders have to cover Amare, then Matrix, then Steve Nash, then Q and that's leaves him wide open for many many possesions. Besides, having such a playmaker like Nash, who can make for you so much great opportunities, is a luxury that players on 29 teams don't have.

Just look at the Joe's 3PT% before Nash came to Phoenix: 29.2% (01-02), 36.6% (02-03) and 30.5% (03-04).

And what makes you think that JJ is more athlethic than Redd? Redd is no T-Mac or Kobe, but still, he's pretty much athletic. 

And when was the last time you saw JJ in highlights dunking on somebody? I guess you can't remember one, do you? Because he wasn't dunking on anyone for a while. Because he's not slasher and doesn't draw fouls (2.3 FTAPG). Unlike Redd (5.3 FTAPG), who also posses much better mid-range game and is more aggresive.

To sum up - Redd is just a much better offensive player.

On the defensive end - yes, JJ is better defender. He's also better passer, and generaly is a more versalite player.

But Redd is a top class offensive player, with the ability to hit clutch shoots and such ones is always getting more $.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Simmons may earn more than the MLE.

By the way, are we even going to understand how the MLE works after this CBA? Are the rules still going to be in place this year? A lot of what I've been reading has said that the MLE is something that a lot of owners have problems with, because pushing teams over the cap more than anything else (rookie max extensions, etc.). 

The guy came out of nowhere from a strong college showing, has received great coaching, shoots above 42% from the arc in selective shooting, is terribly efficient, plays hard nosed D, has great size (taller than 6-6, he looks to me), and can pass the ball. He's durable, played the most minutes of everyone on his team, played the most minutes per game from anyone on the team.

His TO's are EXTREMELY low, which is totally impressive (1.9 TO per game).

The guy is not just a Brian Cardinal or a Matt Harpring. He's more than that; he's a third option on a contending team. I could see the Hawks pressing hard after him, offering him 35 mil over 5 years starting at around 6.25. 

If we could get him, I'd love to see him here. He isn't exactly a defensive monster in terms of athleticism, but he's smart enough and strong enough to rotate him and Deng on guys like McGrady. I'm actually hoping for Deng to develop into more of a defensive stopper than anyone, but there will be times when we'll actually need TWO long guardish defenders on the court (gasp). See Ray Allen/Rashard Lewis, Jason Kidd/Vince Carter, basically ALL of the Phoenix Suns (JJ, Q, Shawn Marion, Jimmy Jackson), Pierce/Davis/Walker, Finley/Marquis/Josh Howard/Stackhouse.

I like a lot of the names tossed around on the board, including JJ, Hughes, etc. Simmons is probably most gettable, compared to them.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I wouldn't say Redd is better than JJ , But I do think he'll get a bigger contract.

With JJ we also gotta wonder how much the fact he's playing next to very good players affects his Numbers. Yes , he shoots less as a result of that , but he shoots much more open/easy shots for the same reason. While Redd always gets all the defensive attention. So being on a good/Bad team has 2 sides to the coin.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Last night Devin Brown got a chance to play lots of minutes (Manu returning from Injury , and when Tim was injured I think Popovic wanted more offense on the expense of Bowen too )

Yes , SA lost to Pistons (without Tim D , Manu only 16 mins)) , But I'll tell ya he was first class.

He was playing 'the right way' both sides of court.

His man to man and team defense was more than impressive , even without any stats to show for it (stls or blks)

He scored 18 points , grabbed 5 brds and had 3 asts. and overall did lots of very smart plays for his team , that do not show in statlines.

I was very impressed of him before , but that was always with limitted minutes (with Manu,Bowen and Barry ahead of him in rotation) , and I have to say I'm even more impressed now.

Not only is he a solid team player , he also has nice tools on both sides of floor.

As DMD said before - he might turnout being a real steal for whoever signs him!!


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

bullet said:


> Last night Devin Brown got a chance to play lots of minutes (Manu returning from Injury , and when Tim was injured I think Popovic wanted more offense on the expense of Bowen too )
> 
> Yes , SA lost to Pistons (without Tim D , Manu only 16 mins)) , But I'll tell ya he was first class.
> 
> ...



His play isn't going unnoticed. San Antonio is in the spotlight often, and players that start contributing on that team attract a lot of attention. Devin Brown is taking a Stephen Jackson-like approach; if Manu weren't there, I daresay he'd be getting Jackson-like numbers.

That doesn't mean he's a Jackson-like player; I think SJ learned a lot in his brief stint in Atlanta that completed him as a player. But Devin Brown has a lot of similarities with SJax.

Devin has humble beginnings, going undrafted and playing in the USBL (the ROY of the USBL). He dominated the NBDL, getting ROY honors there as well. SJax was a late 2nd rounder from the Suns who didn't make a roster until 2000, when he got picked up by New Jersey. He played in and out of the league, then finally showed up in San Antonio and was pivotal in their playoff run (just like Brown was last year).

They both made their names as gritty defenders, although SJax relies more on his length and size to outmatch guys (he's a full 6-8, while Brown stands at 6-5 and looks more like 6-4).

I think whoever lands Brown will get at least a Raja Bell-quality player. He's a capable starter as a "chemistry" guy that sets the tone on defense, and he'll get you 12 and 5 while defending the opposing team's best guard.

I am very curious as to how much salary he'll demand in the FA market.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

For obvious reasons, Devin Brown reminds me a lot of Stephen Jackson. While they're somewhat similar as players, they're situations are remarkably similar and the manner in which they've each responded is similar. Brown has taken minutes from Brent Barry and played unflinchingly alongside Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. I think Devin Brown would be a great pickup for someone...I just don't think he'd come to the Bulls. Maybe I'm allowing the Jackson parallels to get to close...but I see Brown wanting a MUCH bigger role (rather than an equal one) on a worse team than the Spurs (read: pretty much anyone) or a legitimate chance to win a title with a huge payday and decent playing time to boot. Bulls offer neither...

To respond earlier to sp00k saying we'd keep Duhon and get Raja Bell, I disagree. It's not that I don't think it would be to OUR benefit to keep Duhon and Bell, it's that I don't see either player jumping at the chance to see significantly less minutes than each sees this year. 

The JJ/Michael Redd comparison (in which I shamelessly championed JJ) was handled well by Thorgal. I have to swallow my pride and agree...for now. I still think JJ has the potential to be a much better player than Michael Redd and I think that the arrival of Nash and QRich has, ironically, overshadowed his development as a player. Of course he has benefitted in many ways...but he's also been pushed to the wings (literally) at times when I think he's capable of being as much a focal point as Redd. Only time will tell, here, but I won't disagree that Redd has had the opportunity to prove more and has not disappointed in any measurable way. 

Overall, the Bulls have to really approach free agency from this perspective: what do WE offer free agents? Everyone will offer guys like Bobby Simmons and Devin Brown money...and the market will put all the buyers in the same price bracket. For those in-demand guys, it will come down to playing time and team atmosphere and all that. Sure, the Bulls are an exciting up and coming team in a HUGE market starving for basketball success...I think that's a great chip. I'm just wondering how the presence of Chris Duhon and his minimum of 20 minutes a night damages our chances at landing a young gun looking for big-stage prominence.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

In the comparison to SJax case - we shouldn't forget that although SJ had better numbers (with more minutes) , and a very nice playoff performance , after turning down a 3 year 10 mil offer by SA , the best he could get is a 1 mil offer from the Hawks. So there is also the affect of how much does a player look better simply by playing next to Tim Duncan , and with in the efficient Popovic system.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

bullet said:


> In the comparison to SJax case - we shouldn't forget that although SJ had better numbers (with more minutes) , and a very nice playoff performance , after turning down a 3 year 10 mil offer by SA , the best he could get is a 1 mil offer from the Hawks. So there is also the affect of how much does a player look better simply by playing next to Tim Duncan , and with in the efficient Popovic system.


Very true. I have no idea what the market value for Devin Brown and Bobby Simmons will really be. I imagine Simmons will be full MLE and Devin won't be near that...but how many teams want to avoid missing out on the "next" Stephen Jackson? Y'know...minus the whole psychotically punching season ticket holders in the face thing...

I still don't see Brown or Simmons _ choosing _ the Bulls for any reason, though...SJax chose Atlanta as a forum to show off his skills. What do the Bulls, with three entrenched guards, have to offer in that regard?


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

BealeFarange said:


> Very true. I have no idea what the market value for Devin Brown and Bobby Simmons will really be. I imagine Simmons will be full MLE and Devin won't be near that...but how many teams want to avoid missing out on the "next" Stephen Jackson? Y'know...minus the whole psychotically punching season ticket holders in the face thing...
> 
> I still don't see Brown or Simmons _ choosing _ the Bulls for any reason, though...SJax chose Atlanta as a forum to show off his skills. What do the Bulls, with three entrenched guards, have to offer in that regard?


There are lots of SG/wing players on the market. many are higher profiled than Brown (Allen , Redd,JJ,Hughes,Simmons,Spree and even Raja , Jaric and Krover).
Lots of the teams will try to use their mle in 1 portion to get the best player they can (bigs as well - Swift , Dalembert , Kwame , Rahim...). and since Brown probably won't get a full mle offer Money will be a factor , cause I'm not sure he'll be 1st on the list of too many teams , while with us , his type or Raja Bells might be in a situation they top Pax List.
Also - I believe he might get more minutes with us than any other team (or at least a lot compared to others). Although we do have a solid 3 gaurd rotation they are all small , exactly the reason we might persue his likes to start with. He'll get Pikes minutes , Grifs minutes , and I'm sure he'll also cut in Duhons minutes (Truth - Ben will also get some of those minutes). He even might be ahead of Duhon in rotation. He knows he's be our best 6-5 Gaurd .
Add to that the fact that it seems he's exactly the kind of player Skiles likes on court - there is no reason he won't get 25 minute with Bulls.
I don't believe he's an SJax kind of player in turms of scoring(shooting especially). But as I remember , The only reason I saw for SJax not getting a big contract right after SA season , was that along the great plays he did , he did just as much stupid plays. Devin Ain't like that , he has less great moves , but hardly makes totally foolish ones. This of corse has it's advantages and disadvantages. I think in the Skiles?Pax system the 2nd less flashy more solid type is the one that fits better.
Bottomline - with all the wing players on the market , and not too much 'new' money running around , we might be able to get him for a 12 mil per 4 years (Redd got that at time , and who offered him that money before Bucks matched - Superior management of SA of course :biggrin: ) or something in the area , simpley cause there won't be too many partial mle's running around.

One important factor we have to remember - we have no idea how the mle contract would look in the new cba rules... Might help us with the Raja's/Devins of the league - or might hurt our chances.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I think you make a lot of good points...I'm just not sure that signing a guy like Devin Brown (and then cutting into Ben and Duhon's minutes) is the right move for the Bulls. I like Devin Brown and I think he'll work...but Duhon would have to leave for this to make sense because we're almost sure to pay Duhon something like $4 million to stay as it is...to play him for 15 minutes a night? Spend the MLE and the LLE (or near that) to pay for a third and fourth guard? 

I'm getting dangerously close to "trade Kirk or Ben" here...but I just don't think the best way to maximize all of the guard talent we have (and would have even more if we signed a guy like Brown or Simmons or Bell) is to split their minutes THAT much. Ben, for example, should hopefully earn starter level minutes next year...he arguably is a starter caliber player right now provided that the guy he's starting next to has the size to make up for his deficiencies. The value that we'd have sitting on the bench in the person of two of those guards at any one time would be value we could invest in another glaring hole...like a do-it-all star wing player or a defense stretching big man. 

The Bulls really have tough decisions to make...maybe I'm looking at it all wrong and the Bulls will sign a guy like Brown. I just don't see it...not if Duhon comes back. I think the whole thing is a mess, to be honest...Duhon/Gordon/Kirk have different strengths but pretty much the same weaknesses...there's got to be a way to solve that??


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Yeah , it ain't an easy situation BealeFarange.

The basic difference of our thoughts about it is I don't think we'll have to pay Duhon 4 Mil. Although if it were possible to turn 'true' worth of a player for a team into money I believe Duhon is worth those 4 mil - to us! 

One thing that this league does not lack is 6 ft pg's that can defend and distribute , and lack the deadeye shot. I sure hope you ain't right about this cause if we have to pay Du 4 mil thats about the only signing we'd do.
Maybe I'm naive about this but I believe we won't need more than 7-8 mil per 3 years for Duhon (at least I know I'm not alone on this one from past discussions on Duhon projected salary). I don't think another team would flank us on this one , but you never know.

And about adding Brown to the 3 gaurds we play already - Depth is good. I definitely don't want to hurt Bens minutes. I don't mind him coming of the Bench but I do think he has to get around 30 minutes of play (if not more).
Look at how Grizs use their wing players - they play Bonzi,Shane,Miller and Posey , all less than 30 minutes , without Gasol even , and they only seem to benefit from it.

Also , take into account the nba season is one of the longest pro seasons there is (in turms of number of games , not time). With Playoffs players can reach close to 100 games , thats lots. Sadly this season also includes injuries , just like recent weeks for us. In the time Deng was injured Brown could give us lots of minutes.
Depth also gives a team the option to have fresher players in playoffs.

Between the 3 backcourt positions there are 144 minutes to share.
Kirk can play 33 , Ben 31 , Brown 22 , Deng 32 , DUhon 15 and Chapu 11 (with more minutes at 4 like Skiles does some time) . of course it's just an example and does not take injuries into account. 
Bottomline - as I said before , Depth is good!


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Really, I agree with you on a few fronts here: I think Duhon is worth more _ to us _ than to pretty much any other team right now. I also might have been a little over the top in saying that Duhon would get $4mil/per...and I certainly can't deny that depth is a good thing. 

Like I said before, I think it'd be great for the Bulls to have Raja/Brown * and * Duhon/Kirk/Ben...I just don't see a guy signing here as a free agent to play in that scenario NOR do I see Duhon re-signing here to play in that scenario unless we can offer more money. 

We can't offer more playing time and we can't offer a significantly better chance of winning a championship (arguably less important to really young players as it is...) so I'm just not sure what we offer. If we offer Duhon "more" money, we're looking at at least the LLE. That's fine. That's great. I hope we do it. Assuming he jumps on board for that, though, then we make him slightly squirmy by signing a guy to near the full MLE to play the same role as he already plays...I don't think Bonzi would have signed in Memphis as a free agent to play 20 minutes a game with Posey and Miller and Battier. Is it great for MEMPHIS to have that depth? Sure. But that kind of depth doesn't last long in free agency. 

Maybe I'm wrong...I hope so. I'd love Chicago to be implicitly attractive for free agents. I just don't see it. Bell, to me, is more likely than Brown as he's more of a known quantity, he's older, and he's on a smaller stage. A more high profile free agent to play in our barbershop quartet is unlikely in my opinion. 

I also have a problem with Chapu playing more minutes at the four...he is NOT a four and I think we're better off looking for an AD replacement there more than anything else...I'd rather see Deng try the big guard thing and play the two than Noc play more at the four.

Hinrich 23 Duhon 25
Gordon 30 Hinrich 12 Deng 6
Deng 24 Nocioni 24
Chandler 33 ?? AD
Curry 40 ?? AD


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

BealeFarange said:


> The Bulls really have tough decisions to make...maybe I'm looking at it all wrong and the Bulls will sign a guy like Brown. I just don't see it...not if Duhon comes back.*I think the whole thing is a mess, to be honest...Duhon/Gordon/Kirk have different strengths but pretty much the same weaknesses...there's got to be a way to solve that??*


Hit it right on the head here. One of them will have to be traded or let go (Duhon) because as you said, the whole thing is a mess.

My ideal SG is Bobby Simmons but it seems unlikely the Bulls will be able to match anything, say the Hawks will offer him. Raja Bell would be my next choice.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

bulls should actually shoot for joe johnson and i dont think that johnson would cost that much compared to redd and ray allen.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

BealeFarange said:


> Really, I agree with you on a few fronts here: I think Duhon is worth more _ to us _ than to pretty much any other team right now. I also might have been a little over the top in saying that Duhon would get $4mil/per...and I certainly can't deny that depth is a good thing.
> 
> Like I said before, I think it'd be great for the Bulls to have Raja/Brown * and * Duhon/Kirk/Ben...I just don't see a guy signing here as a free agent to play in that scenario NOR do I see Duhon re-signing here to play in that scenario unless we can offer more money.
> 
> ...


On the Big man issue I think Othella must be signed. He's been playing great for us and the best thing about him is he won't count against our MLE.
Oberto is another very good  big man backup option.
If we let Duhon Go I'd prefer signing a full MLE prospect (Simmons??) to have a great rotation . 
And also - I don't really see any team in the league that will offer Devin more than 25 minutes a game. Maybe Cavs (Why isn't Jiri playing??and Luke Jackson back next season??) , but I think they'll go for one of the higher profiled SG's. Most teams already have their big productive SG , or a young one they want to nurture. I can't see any team Brown will sign with that he'd feel ahead of time he's sure to get 30 minutes. Even 20 minutes.

Edit: Denver maybe , depending on Lenards return (then they have also 3 - Lenard ,Miller and Earl)


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

If Duhon is valuable _to us_, it must be because we have a certain chemistry on the team that makes him necessary. Primarily, we don't have a long 2 guard that can defend.

If we get one, Duhon is less valuable. If he gets a real offer and we have a real 2 by then, I don't see us matching it.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

BealeFarange said:


> I still don't see Brown or Simmons _ choosing _ the Bulls for any reason, though...SJax chose Atlanta as a forum to show off his skills. What do the Bulls, with three entrenched guards, have to offer in that regard?


I'm not sure. Though remember SJax showing the Bulls some love during last season? He said that 'money' wouldn't be an issue or something close to that for the offseason (maybe this was just postering since he did a S&T for more money than the MLE). Chicago does have something left to offer these types of players.... Getting back to the post above... I'd say we have the hometown thing going for Simmons whose a local product and more minutes for a guy like Brown. Our guard situation isn't as cluttered as San Antonios.

Color me in the minority but... I don't see all three of our guards set in stone. I think eventually Duhon will take an even lesser role and we will need a bigger guard to take minutes. I like some of the names mentioned in this thread and I've especially been an advocate of Raja Bell as well. I just like the craziness defensively and effort that he brings. The snippet Kismet posted the other day was encouragin as well.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I tend to agree with Showtyme, here, as much as it pains me to say it. I love Duhon and I love Othella...but I see Othella being in the same position as Chris, here. He's not the perfect compliment to our two core pieces (Eddy/Tyson) and a replacement for Othella that is _ also _ a good compliment to our core shouldn't be impossible to find. Same with Du...he's not the perfect compliment to our two core pieced (Ben/Kirk) and a replacement for Duhon that is _ also _ a good compliment to our core shouldn't be impossible to find. 

The sticker is being loyal, I guess...but I think/hope this season has earned both of those fellas job security and some nice cash flow. If I'm GM, I let Othella go without question (unless he really wants to keep playing fourth fiddle for a bargain price) and I spend a looong time thinking about Duhon before probably letting him go and using the full MLE. Don't hold me to that, though, because I haven't actually spent a loooong time thinking about it...GM style...on a cruise or something...

Duhon has become one of my favorite players in the league and I'm almost willing to say that he's entrenched as part of our core as our third guard and that we might need a different piece at one of our "core" spots...but that's a whole other can of worms.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I think in othellas case , like him or not , we *must* sign him. The contract issue is a very serious benefit , if we don't sign him we'd have to sign someone that would count against the mle , and it ain't much to start with. If we don't sign him , we won't even be able to sign Duhon along with getting a worthy replacement for OH - and as a result we'd get weaker.

But on the issue - I think 'O' is having a great season for us , and hopefully he does not have to complement Eddy or Tyson but back them up. And he's a very nice Big backup to have as I see it. He ain't great at anything , but he can do everything a team needs from it's bigs decently. Now and then , when Eddy gets his 'rest aches' he can even give us a 20 points scoring game. The thing is - Eddy and Tyson do not play great together so far , is it changable - I think it is. 

AQnd I think as a backup he can play with either one of Eddy/Tyson quite well , but thats just difference in opinion.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Again, my schizophrenic approach to this year's Bulls stands out. I at once think Othella will get good offers from other teams and also think he won't want to return to the same backup type role he's in now. I'm optimistic and positive towards the players, negative/pessimistic towards the organization/franchise. 

I should have learned by now that Pax is changing things, it's just hard to remember sometimes. In the same role he's in now, I'd love to take back Othella...but I'm not sure AD CAN play the same role he's playing now for another year. There aren't that many more minutes for Tyson and Eddy, realistically, given stamina/foul trouble and that would mean Othella would play more. Is he ready for that? Is he the right fit for that? I hope so...you're 100% right about the Bird Rights being a HUGE bonus for us in O's regard. Unfortunately, we don't have the same rights with Chris...again, this is a tough, tough situation.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

My hope regarding Harrington is that the rest of the league has sort of already passed judgment on him and won't be calling him to offer up important chunks of MLE or cap space. I mean, he was bench-ridden and trade fodder for what seems like several seasons until coming here. That's probably wishful thinking on my part, though. I'd love to sign Othella to a two year deal with a mutual option on the 2nd. We need some useful depth at the big spots and Harrington has been great in that capacity - he seems OK with his role, and he's ready to do more and play more when needed.

Duhon? I'd love to see him stay, but it depends on the price. If we can get Raja Bell or Devin Brown for an affordable price at the expense of Duhon, I'd probably go ahead and let Duhon sign a decent deal elsewhere if he's offered one. We might need a cheap vet to play some backup PG in that scenario, but on balance I don't think the team suffers if Kirk goes back to being the primary PG, if it means we added a good defender at the big guard.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Check out Devin Brown's box score from tonight:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=250321018

22/8/1, no turnovers, 27 minutes. :clap: 

He plays good D too. I wannim!


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

I don't see Duhon getting more than 2 to start, 3 year contract.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Another name to consider in Demarr Johnson. Finally healthy, a huge SG who can score and defend. Don't know if he runs any point like he did in college... but he's looked good to me all season. Currently signed at the min


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

It doesn't look like we'll be bringing back duhon or harrington if we re-sign curry, chandler & a big SG...


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## Glad JC is gone (Mar 23, 2005)

Three things you look for in a SG:

*Shoot the outside shot
Play defense
Penetrate, cut and finish around the basket*

With big E I don't think you need #3. And if you wanted a SG who did good in all three it would cost you more than 5.5 million. So I say we sacrifice 3 and get a player that is all 1 and 2 and none of three. A player like:

*Kareem Rush*

Dude flat out smacks the apple basket from three and has a quick release doin it! He has the athletic ability we want and he is already a pretty decent defender playing backup to Kobe (for a coach in Phillip that didnt play youngsters a lot) and on the Bobcats. HE was known as a good defender for Snyder at Missouri. Skiles could have him playing nice defense. 

Plus he isnt so big of a personality that he takes away from Kirk and Gordon. Those two guys would be the focal point and Duhon and Rush would play their roles at the one and two. 

Plus he comes cheap. Hed fall all over the floor if you offered him 3 million per year.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

guess who Glad Jc is Gone...is? 

Comes online and goes right at Bullsville......hmmmm. Banned.

The guy, can be a good poster, this is such a waste of his time, your time and ours.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> guess who Glad Jc is Gone...is?
> 
> Comes online and goes right at Bullsville......hmmmm. Banned.
> 
> The guy, can be a good poster, this is such a waste of his time, your time and ours.


The thing is, I don't think he *can* be a good poster. Not that he never has any good ideas, he often does once his man-love for Eddy is satisfied.

The problem is that he has no interest in fitting in, or getting along with others. He could come back with a different user name, but he gives himself away with his actions. Even worse, when he doesn't give himself away, he makes sure everyone knows it's him.

He can't be happy posting unless everyone knows it's Matrix, which shows me he not only isn't very bright, but he's never going to be happy until each and every NBA fan on the planet agrees with him that Eddy is the best non-Shaq center on the planet. It's really sad if you think about it, how much of a loser must this guy be to spend all of this energy trying to "prove" that Eddy Curry is the #2 most dominant basketball player in the world.

I do appreciate all the comeback efforts, though... he is so sad and so pathetic that one can really get some good laughs out of him.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Its Gip-ruptions like this on the board that remind me so very much of my family and my childhood.


My dysfunctional, psychologically traumatic, childhood.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

superdave said:


> Another name to consider in Demarr Johnson. Finally healthy, a huge SG who can score and defend. Don't know if he runs any point like he did in college... but he's looked good to me all season. Currently signed at the min


As much as I miss the Gipper (hope things work out for him), back to the thread.

I've been harping for DerMarr Johnson since the Denver game when I was there (thanks to K4E!) and saw first hand how talented he still is. I'd dig up the threads but I'm too lazy...but I'm with you Superdave and have been!

He was a lottery pick and it shows...a car accident may have knocked him off track and it's doubtful he'll ever have lottery success or even lottery minutes...but isn't this exactly the kind of guy we can get for cheap (under MLE for sure) to keep _with_ Duhon and who could possibly really blossom? 

He's number one on my "realistic" options chart because I really dig athletic talent and the dreaded "p." I might need help.

I'd love to see DerMarr Johnson, Raja Bell, Devin Brown, John Salmons, Antonio Daniels, Marko Jaric or ( :drool: ) Joe Johnson in a Bulls uniform next season, among others. Should be a fun offseason even without a draft pick.

edit: and a guy that isn't mentioned enough is Voshon Lenard. I'd love to get him, too. Our defense would be fine...he's not bad. But what an offensive help he'd be!


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## Bolts (Nov 7, 2003)

I can't believe this discussion is being held without even a mention of . . . *DOUG CHRISTIE*

I am not a big fan of the guy but he does NOT want to be in Orlando. He is good defenslively. Maybe we can trade someone for Christie and a 2nd round pick? He probably would come cheap.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Christie isn't a free agent, is he? Doesn't he have a bad contract? He's been having a horrible season and has been STEADILY declining thanks to a bevy of nagging injuries. I have no interest in Christie. At all.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

What abou Gerald Wallace? They guy is an athletic freak that can give you 11 and 6 every night. And he's young too.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

dsouljah9 said:


> What abou Gerald Wallace? They guy is an athletic freak that can give you 11 and 6 every night. And he's young too.


Bobcats already said they'd resign him.

Christie does have a bad contract , around 8 mil per year (but expires next season).


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Wallace is unrestricted though. I just say we should look at the guy; if he's not interested, we should go after Bell or Jaric.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Another good game by Demarr Johnson tonight.

He'll probably be resigned though in DEN.... since he's such good buddies w/ KMart


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I'm so backed up on my bbb.net reading these days, I'm try to play catchup on this very interesting thread!

*Superdave!*, I've also noticed that Dermarr Johnson is emerging as yet another really good SG free agent, and he seems like a decent fit for the Bulls. He has insane length, decent offensive skills, and is a pretty good ballhandler for a guy his size. But you're right, Denver seems rejuvenated and he's a big part of it (pretty much solved their 2-guard problems). I'm sure Denver will do whatever it takes to keep him. 

*BealeFarange*, nice posting as usual. I echo most of your thoughts on players the Bulls would be interested in, but I still think there's room for Duhon on this club. Not to open up that can of worms again though  ...I'll only say that Ben Gordon isn't ready for a point guard role yet, and I think PaxSkiles will make re-signing Duhon a very high priority this summer since he gives us a 2nd reliable ballhandler who can dish assists at a 3:1 A/TO ratio (along with Hinrich). Plus, having Duhon around will allow Hinrich to play closer to 32-33 minutes a game, ala Steve Nash (provided a Devin Brown type is added)...he'll be all the more effective as a result. 

I fully expect Pax to consider ALL free agent options when it comes to filling our SG hole, and when it's all said and done, I trust that Pax will come away with a steal. And by that I mean he'll end up signing a darn good player who will know his role, fit this team's mold, and won't cost too much. Raja Bell might be the guy. Only time will tell, but it is apparent that Pax has a TON of options. That helps things when it comes to market value. 

I still don't think this is as big of a "problem" as some are making it out to be. Adding a Devin Brown/Raja Bell type is important, yes, but it's not gonna make or break this team. When will people realize that Hinrich defends opposing SG's better than 90% of the players in this league? There are times when he gets overmatched obviously, but it's not as often as people think. If that were the case, I doubt we'd be leading the NBA in opposing FG%. 

Alot of the off-season stategy will depend on how this team's re-signings are handled (most notably Curry, Chandler, Duhon, and Othella). Staying on topic though, the backcourt situation is dictated by what happens with Duhon. If Duhon is let go, then the Bulls need to sign a guy like Antonio Daniels to play PG/SG...If Duhon is re-signed, then they'll look more for a SG/SF type ala Bell. I'm sensing a little logjam though, but I'm not too worried since depth is healthy for a club like this. Skiles reaches deep into his bench fairly often, and a guy like Nocioni is versatile enough to play decent minutes at PF. There are certainly alot of options, that's for sure.

:twocents:


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

superdave said:


> Another good game by Demarr Johnson tonight.
> 
> He'll probably be resigned though in DEN.... since he's such good buddies w/ KMart


I agree about Demarr , and he hasn't shown it all yet.

But , as you said , He's likely to stay:



> "Hopefully I've found a home," Johnson said Thursday before the Nuggets' victory against the Los Angeles Lakers. "I'm comfortable here. I like Denver. I love the team, love my teammates."



http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nuggets/article/0,1299,DRMN_20_3649870,00.html


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

i think we should make a big run for Bobby Simmons. he is from chicago and he is likely to sign at or just above the MLE. My guess is he is already sick of the clippers. I hate to say this but Duhan is likely coming of the bench next year and looking at 10 minutes a game. The bulls need a big SG to match up with KH and Gordon so that the KH and BG are only on the floor together at the end of the games and a few minutes in the 2nd quarter. 

I also think they need someone who can finish on the fast break and simmons is great at that as well as one of the best defending SG in the league. I also dont think the clippers are going to go 6 million a year to sign him as long as they have maggette.

david


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Another restricted Guy I love is Damien Wilkins. 

Last night he got his 1st chance with Shards injury and gave 21 points (7-10) with 2-3 from 3 and 2 stls in 28 minutes.
He's 6-6 , 225 , tough defender , as athletic as they get (after all he is a member of *the* Wilkins family).He played only 104 minutes the whole season - and has 9 stls , do the math.

He won't cost much , but I guess Sonics would keep him (although he'd count against their mle)


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

giusd said:


> i think we should make a big run for Bobby Simmons. he is from chicago and he is likely to sign at or just above the MLE. My guess is he is already sick of the clippers. I hate to say this but Duhan is likely coming of the bench next year and looking at 10 minutes a game. The bulls need a big SG to match up with KH and Gordon so that the KH and BG are only on the floor together at the end of the games and a few minutes in the 2nd quarter.
> 
> I also think they need someone who can finish on the fast break and simmons is great at that as well as one of the best defending SG in the league. I also dont think the clippers are going to go 6 million a year to sign him as long as they have maggette.
> 
> david


I wouldn't mind picking up Simmons...I am, afterall, a DePaul alum and would love to see a former Blue Demon wearing a Bulls uniform. But I know his game, and he's definitely more of a 3 than a 2...he's no more athletic than Luol Deng, so we're not getting any more help than we already have in defending the Jason Richardsons, Kobe Bryants, and Corey Maggettes in this league. He also doesn't bring any real PG skills to the table...he's a guy who will shoot the ball really well, grab some boards, slash to the basket, etc. I think it's a little pointless to have Simmons when we already have Noce and Deng. 

As for Duhon, I would expect him to average around 20 minutes a game next year if we keep him. He's too good at running the offense, and too good a defender to just not play. For example, there are 96 backcourt minutes available. Something like this might work...

Duhon - 20 min/game, Hinrich - 33 min/game, Gordon - 30 min/game, Devin Brown (??) - 13 min/game

Then for the frontcourt...

Deng - 32 min/game, Chandler 32 min/game, Curry 32 min/game, Nocioni - 22 min/game, Devin Brown (playing SF) - 9 min/game, and Othella/AD can split the remaining 17 minutes. 

Total breakdown of minutes is:

Hinrich - 33
Curry/Chandler/Deng - 32 each
Nocioni/Devin Brown - 22 each
Duhon - 20
Othella & AD - combine for 17

These are just examples, but it's just to show that this rotation can work. The only thing is, our SG signing is not for someone demanding much more than 20 minutes a game. If we want to shoot for a Joe Johnson, then you have to give up someone like Hinrich. This hypothetical team is still smallish, but if you look around the league, the new rule interpretations on foul calling allows teams to play alot more small ball. Alot of teams are using small lineups and having success with it.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Oh also of note. I believe Devin Brown might be out for the season due to recurring back problems.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Three guys we should go after in free agency are:

Willie Green(restricted free agent)

Raja Bell(unrestricted)

Bonzi Wells(team option)

These are guys that I think we should be able to get along with a Oberto or Aaron Williams(player option; I think that he'll want out of Toronto, he gets no burn). Renier, Pargo, Griffin and Frank Williams are all guys that are expendable to free up cap space.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

superdave said:


> Oh also of note. I believe Devin Brown might be out for the season due to recurring back problems.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2021980

Good catch SD. Look at who was activated in his stead.

My favorite two options to pursue this year have been Jaric and Brown. Both may have serious, lingering injuries.

Hmmm.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I wish Pax would at least try Romain Sato with a 10 day contract , he never got his chance...


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I must have missed this thread before creating my own.

Top 5 I'd like us to get:
1) Raja Bell
2) Devin Brown
3) Bobby Simmons
4/5)Quinton Ross or Maurice Evans

If we can get Kittles or Jaric with the full MLE (or close to), I would sign these two and send Duhon packing if we can't get either Bell, Brown or Simmons for cheap or if they sign/resign with another team.. Although, I think we'd want more flexibility come the Hinrich and Gordon/Deng contract years.

Not ideal, but I wouldn't be unhappy with these next 5 signings
1) Jeff McInnis
2/3) Willie Green or Greg Buckner
4) Antonio Daniels
5) Jamison Brewer

If we go after a big man with part of the MLE, we could sign these guys to the Vet exception as a short-term solution.
1) Gary Payton
2) Stacey Augmon
3) Kendall Gill
4) Steve Smith


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

bullet said:


> I wish Pax would at least try Romain Sato with a 10 day contract , he never got his chance...


I definately would not mind this as well. Although, it seems we need Pargo on the active roster until Kirk is healthy.

If we can get Kirk back and healthy, move Pargo back to the IR and sign Sato to a 10-day. Although, it does not seem that Skiles is uncomfortable with playing Griffin.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Another guy we should consider is Greg Buckner  - He's a good defensive player , Gets lots of steals , Shoots the 3 well (0.405 - Like Bell with 0.403) , Does not take bad shots (fg% 0.528) , and fits the Pax/Skiles mold of toughness.
Like Bell , he ain't a star but a nice workhorse to have on your team for depth.

Buckner has a player option with Nuggets for next season of 900K and since Lenards Injury in game one has quite a good season , what might mean he won't excersize the option. I'd definitely give him the 1.6-1.8 mil of the LLE and use the MLE to keep Du and sign Oberto.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Todays news talk about *Eric Williams* considering taking a buyout from Raptors only to get away from there. Saw it on Hoopshype - Link 

He is another below MLE good defender role player we might consider if this senario happens. He definitely fits the Skiles/Pax mold , a Vet , good character , can also score decently , and he won't cost much (made 3.6 mil this last season , next season he'll be 33).

There is also talk about How Ruben is dying to leave Portland - but he's a bad boy Pax won't touch (I think)


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

To me we not only need a two who can defend, we also need someone who can finish and get us easy baskets in transition.


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## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

A lot of options here. It's really hard to make a decision, but I find it impossible to pass up on Larry Hughes. That kid has talent just oozing out, and I've always been high on him as an individual, except that he has finally put it all together in a now winning organization of the Washington Wizards and is getting high marks for it. He's a legit 20 point threat, and would give us a guy that we can put the ball in his hand to create. That's something I think we lack even more then an all-around guard like Raja Bell or Devin Brown, but that's just my $2 cents. Hughes would help us put points up on the board, which is our only problem. We seem to be able to hold our own on defense, but yet, almost match the other team in bad shooting (and it isn't to credit our opponents defensive assignments, either).

Chris Duhon is great on _this_ team, and I think Skiles will find a way to keep him, but I'm not in favor of it unless it's less then 3 mil a year. He isn't all that great and has yet to be a consistent performer on offense in terms of scoring, which is a huge knock on him despite how great he's been. I'd rather have Raja Bell for 3-4 years if his contract demands are larger then expected. Here's my wanted list:

1-Larry Hughes
2-Raja Bell
3-Bobby Simmons


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I would hate to lose Hinrich, and only in rare cases would I consider parting with him...but if trading Hinrich + AD for someone like Joe Johnson + a decent filler (Barbosa?) was possible, I'd jump all over it. The thing is, it would absolutely HAVE to be for a pure SG and for one who is at least the player Hinrich is, if not better. I'd part with Kirk if it meant getting JJ back in return. He's an outstanding all-around talent, and a fantastic 3-pt shooter.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

I'd have to say the my wish list would be:

1. Bobby Simmons

2. Raja Bell

3. Kerry Kittles(if he's healthy)

4. Gerald Wallace

Somone mentioned Hughes, but he's going to get big money from Washington, similar to what Arenas got 6 yrs 60mil.

Joe Johnson is another guy that I'd like for us to get as well, but I think he'll resign in Phoenix for something like 6 yrs 50 mil or something.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

If we are looking for another Euro prospect (although Chapu is argentinian) I think we should checkout 
DIMITRIOS DIAMANTIDIS  

Panathinaikos (A top 5 euro BB team) brought him this season from Iraklis. He's about 6-5/6 , can shoot , and he was just voted as the Euroleague *defensive player of the year!* like Nocioni , he's 25...


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