# ESPN Preview of Cavs



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="colhead" valign="top"><td width="30%">ANALYST</td> <td>COMMENT</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Greg
Anthony*
ESPN.com
</td> <td> They've gotten better every year since LeBron came in. Based on their experience last year, plus the growth of young players, I think this is going to be a breakout season for the Cavs. They're the team with the best chance to challenge Miami.
*DIVISION RANK: 1 | CONFERENCE RANK: 1
*</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Chris
Broussard*
ESPN.com
</td> <td>They won 50 games without their second-best player, Larry Hughes. With Hughes healthy, the supporting cast more confident and the best player in the game (LeBron), the Cavs should approach 60 wins, then fall to the Heat in the East finals.
*DIVISION RANK: 1 | CONFERENCE RANK: 1
*</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Ric
Bucher *
ESPN Mag
</td> <td>Larry Hughes is healthy. Larry Hughes is a bad fit for the Cavs, as reflected by how they won when he was out and lost when he was available against the Pistons. Larry Hughes is why it's not prudent to expect more than another 50-win season.
*DIVISION RANK: 2 | CONFERENCE RANK: 3
*</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Chad
Ford*
ESPN.com
</td> <td>With LeBron, the Cavs are contenders. A healthy Hughes will be gravy. Still, with major issues at point guard and no depth in the middle, the Cavs look like they're a piece or two away from the title.
*DIVISION RANK: 2 | CONFERENCE RANK: 3
*</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*John
Hollinger*
ESPN.com
</td> <td>The Cavs stood pat, so some are befuddled that I think they'll improve so much. But between injuries and off years, they were way below their potential last season. They need to cut LeBron's minutes, though, so he has more vigor in the playoffs.
*DIVISION RANK: 1 | CONFERENCE RANK: 1
*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Scoop
Jackson*
ESPN.com
</td> <td>Am I the only Witness? It's not about LeBron this year, it's about getting Larry Hughes back. They did everything last year without him -- and they still came close. Now watch it really go down. 
*DIVISION RANK: 1 | CONFERENCE RANK: 1
*</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Tim
Legler*
ESPN.com
</td> <td>LeBron's heroics last season were a mere prelude to what he'll do with an improved cast. Larry Hughes is healthy and will return to the All-Star form he showed in Washington. This group could get to the Finals.
*DIVISION RANK: 2 | CONFERENCE RANK: 2
*</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Jim
O'Brien*
ESPN.com
</td> <td>LeBron James must convince himself and his teammates to get into the top 10 in defense. They were 18th in the league in field-goal defense and that will never, ever get you to the Finals.
*DIVISION RANK: 3 | CONFERENCE RANK: 5
*</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Chris
Sheridan *
ESPN.com
</td> <td>Where else to pick ******** James except third? OK, cheap shot, and James and Team USA will finish higher than third next summer in the Olympics qualifier. But in this division, James' team is just third-best.
*DIVISION RANK: 3 | CONFERENCE RANK: 5
*</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="center"> <td>







*Marc
Stein* ESPN.com
</td> <td>The Central is so brutal that the Cavs could win another 50 games and still finish third. They'll need an MVP season from LeBron -- or big improvement from Hughes, Donyell Marshall and D-Jones -- to avoid that fate.
*DIVISION RANK: 3 | CONFERENCE RANK: 5
*</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" valign="center"> <td> 
*Average ranks*

</td> <td>*DIVISION: 1.9 | CONFERENCE: 2.7*</td></tr></tbody></table>A lot more at:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-ClevelandPreview0607


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I don't have a problem with us getting picked 3rd: Chad Ford makes a good case.

But what he hell is up Bucher's and Stein's *****? Bucher think we lost more w/o Hughes - he is officially an idiot. He does realize Hughes when he was back came back after two surgeries with just a few games left in the season to get back into rhythm?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

At least Bucher and Stein said we'd make the playoffs.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Oh and you want to see Chad Ford get pwned?

He said the Cavs have no frontcourt depth.

Then on one of the sidebars, Hollinger has an article talking about how the Cavs five man front court rotation is one of the very best in the league.

PWNT!

I wonder if Ford saw that afterwards and realized he didn't know what he was talking about?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> I wonder if Ford saw that afterwards and realized he didn't know what he was talking about?


I'd contend that he knew that before he wrote the article. And just didn't care.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> He said the Cavs have no frontcourt depth.


ilgauskas and who's the back up???

anderson gooden or drew varajeo is the 4, one can't score the other can't defend;

donyell; oh yea......

lebron at the 3 and the financially secure ira newble......48 minutes per game for 82 games for bron-bron; sounds about right. just mail him the mvp now, skip the preliminaries.

sounds pretty deep to me.....


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

BULLHITTER said:


> ilgauskas and who's the back up???
> 
> anderson gooden or drew varajeo is the 4, one can't score the other can't defend;
> 
> ...


Varejao can also and does also play the 5 on occasion. LeBron can play the 3 and 4 (we've put him on power forwards on defense and let him play in the post like a big forward). Ira Newble is awful but he's not logging minutes for us, so don't even worry about that.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

BULLHITTER said:


> ilgauskas and who's the back up???
> 
> anderson gooden or drew varajeo is the 4, one can't score the other can't defend;
> 
> ...


Lebron's backups do suck, but not many teams have Gooden/AV/Marshall depth at the 4. 

As mentioned above AV backs up Z at the 5 as well, so we're rolling Z/AV/Pollard at center which is MORE than solid in the East. 

I was surpised at the positive reactions from ESPN writers in this article - Jim O'Brien hated on us out of nowhere though, and typical Stein putting us 5th in the conference? 

I still wonder how he got his job.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Our frontcourt is as good as anybody else's in the league in terms of number of quality players: Pollards is actually a decent backup C but we have Z, Gooden, AV, Marshall, and Lebron. That's the strenght of this team for a reason we can go small with shooter or have a strong post scoring presence. On top of that we have two of the best rebounders in the leauge. The only thing we're missing is a real banger but with Pollard we have someone who can at least defend burly guys like brand this year.

Plus who really cares who backs up Lebron: he will play 40+ minutes a game and if he goes down we're not going to replace him with a top 3 NBA talent anyways. Hughes can play the 3 if necessary for 8 minutes a game


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> On top of that we have two of the best rebounders in the leauge.


 Rebounds 
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG OFF ORPG DEF DRPG REB RPG 
1 Kevin Garnett Min 76 38.9 214 2.8 752 9.9 966 12.7 
2 Dwight Howard Orl 82 36.9 288 3.5 734 9.0 1022 12.5 
3 Marcus Camby Den 56 33.1 132 2.4 536 9.6 668 11.9 
4 Shawn Marion Pho 81 40.3 249 3.1 710 8.8 959 11.8 
5 Ben Wallace Det 82 35.2 301 3.7 622 7.6 923 11.3 
6 Tim Duncan SA 80 34.8 231 2.9 650 8.1 881 11.0 
7 Yao Ming Hou 57 34.1 148 2.6 433 7.6 581 10.2 
8 Elton Brand LAC 79 39.2 236 3.0 554 7.0 790 10.0 
9 Troy Murphy GS 74 34.0 195 2.6 548 7.4 743 10.0 
10 Emeka Okafor Cha 26 33.7 94 3.6 167 6.4 261 10.0 
11 Chris Webber Phi 75 38.6 184 2.5 557 7.4 741 9.9 
12 Chris Kaman LAC 78 32.8 187 2.4 563 7.2 750 9.6 
13 Jamaal Magloire Mil 82 30.1 220 2.7 558 6.8 778 9.5 
14 Antawn Jamison Was 82 40.1 167 2.0 598 7.3 765 9.3 
15 Jermaine O'Neal Ind 51 35.3 102 2.0 374 7.3 476 9.3 
16 Chris Bosh Tor 70 39.3 204 2.9 443 6.3 647 9.2 
17 Shaquille O'Neal Mia 59 30.6 172 2.9 369 6.3 541 9.2 
18 Lamar Odom LAL 80 40.3 181 2.3 557 7.0 738 9.2 
19 Jeff Foster Ind 63 25.1 224 3.6 350 5.6 574 9.1 
20 Mehmet Okur Uta 82 35.9 211 2.6 535 6.5 746 9.1 
21 Tyson Chandler Chi 79 26.8 265 3.4 449 5.7 714 9.0 
22 Dirk Nowitzki Dal 81 38.1 115 1.4 613 7.6 728 9.0 
23 Pau Gasol Mem 80 39.2 191 2.4 522 6.5 713 8.9 
24 Carlos Boozer Uta 33 31.1 73 2.2 212 6.4 285 8.6 
*25 Drew Gooden Cle 79 27.5 237 3.0 428 5.4 665 8.4 * 
26 Samuel Dalembert Phi 66 26.7 159 2.4 382 5.8 541 8.2 
27 Andrei Kirilenko Uta 69 37.8 161 2.3 391 5.7 552 8.0 
28 Zach Randolph Por 74 34.4 193 2.6 399 5.4 592 8.0 
29 Zaza Pachulia Atl 78 31.4 264 3.4 349 4.5 613 7.9 
30 Erick Dampier Dal 82 23.5 273 3.3 367 4.5 640 7.8 
31 Udonis Haslem Mia 81 30.8 167 2.1 467 5.8 634 7.8 
32 Brad Miller Sac 79 37.0 122 1.5 493 6.2 615 7.8 
33 Kurt Thomas Pho 53 26.6 102 1.9 313 5.9 415 7.8 
34 Bonzi Wells Sac 52 32.4 142 2.7 259 5.0 401 7.7 
*35 Zydrunas Ilgauskas Cle 78 29.3 245 3.1 346 4.4 591 7.6 * 

with lebron bringing up the rear at #42.....

scott pollard.......somewhere there's an IR list waiting for his signature.....

i suppose if the list were in inverse order the above could be considered accurate.......


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

^ Umm you might want to look at rebound rate which take minutes played into account and not raw numbers particularly since AV was hurt he didn't qualify for the season numbers:

Gooden 18.1
AV 18.2

Both were in the top 10 last year in terms of rebound rate.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Haha this is getting comical. Bullhitter keeps serving them up, and Pioneer, Remy, and Benedict_Boozer keep knocking them down.

But yeah. Our frontcourt is our strength. Hell, look at the hollinger article on the same page. It's about how the Cavs front court is one of the best in the NBA.

Z/AV/Pollard
Gooden/Marshall/AV
Lebron/Hughes/Wesley/Brown (when Bron is out of the game(all of 8 minutes, I'm sure, in important games he'll probably play the full time), it's obvious that we are going to go small in the backcourt)

There aren't many teams with that kind of quality in their frontcourt. The Heat and the Pistons are probably the main two in the East that have that depth, and the Pistons are small, and the Heat don't really have any small forwards worth a damn.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> ^ Umm you might want to look at rebound rate which take minutes played into account and not raw numbers particularly since AV was hurt he didn't qualify for the season numbers:
> 
> Gooden 18.1
> AV 18.2
> ...


nice spin......yea, i'll agree it's comical, alright..... for cav support to think that scott pollard provides any "strength" in the froncourt. AV is undersized (read;skinny) for a 5, so nobody will be shaking in their boots when he's in the paint. drew "low IQ" gooden might not be a top 15 pf, i haven't counted the better ones than him, except maybe for AV......(lol)

further, while i don't share "the piston is small" nonsense, sheed and mcdyess are better than gooden and "sideshow bob". plus nazr is a competent fill in. further, miami can roll out alonzo and shaq and there's no contest, even at their advanced age. marshall's due this year for his every other season of 25+ games missed due to (fill in ailment here)..... and he vs. haslem and toine is a wash.


> Lebron/Hughes/Wesley/Brown


is this a reference to the frontcourt? i'll assume that any rational fan knows 3 out of 4 are guards; hughes at 3 is a stretch; but considering the alternative, i'd like to see hughes at the 3. the more minutes he plays the more likely he is to go down to injury. brown probably should be thrown out there to sink or swim (though it looks doubtful that he will), and wesley is done. i'm picking the cav as most likely to underachieve. slam it if you will, but bron's got his work cut out for him.

depth in the frontcourt? sorry, i'm not a believer.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yeah, more than likely whenever Lebron hits the bench Brown is going to play a three guard backcourt. So depth at small forward is irrellevent. Though Donyell can play some 3 if the right matchups are there.

As for Verejao being too skinny, yeah, maybe 2 years ago. He's filled out nicely. He's 6-11 too by the by.

As for Pollard, he's the third string center. Who cares if he is that good? His function on the team will be to come in in blowouts so that no one important gets hurt. Which reminds me, are we keeping that Jones guy from the Celtics? He's another seven footer. Pollard and him would basically be there to give fouls on Ben Wallace and Shaq if we played them and wanted to play hack a piss poor free throw shooter.

As for the four, Gooden and Marshall and Verejao is a trio few teams can match.

The facts are that the Cavs front court has proven itself for a good 3 years to be one of the league's finest, and has never been questioned really. So you can try and cast doubt, but if there's one spot on the floor we know what we're getting from, it's our frontcourt.

The question marks are in the backcourt. The frontcourt is what won us 50 games last season. The backcourt is what kept us from winning 60.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

BULLHITTER said:


> Rebounds
> RK NAME TEAM GP MPG OFF ORPG DEF DRPG REB RPG
> 1 Kevin Garnett Min 76 38.9 214 2.8 752 9.9 966 12.7
> 2 Dwight Howard Orl 82 36.9 288 3.5 734 9.0 1022 12.5
> ...


Yeah, there's an additional number that might be of interest to you. It's just to the left of the rebound numbers. (Hint: It's abbreviated MPG)

Notice how both of those numbers are under 30? See how many others on this list are under 30? Yeah, not very many.

Sorry man, but that was just a terrible argument. You tried, but you missed pretty badly there.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wow, is the word "L e b r o n z e" masked in this forum?

(After hitting preview, I soon realize that it is)

I knew things were getting bad, but I didn't realize it was that bad. I always took it as an indicator of which posters to take seriously.

I only mention that because it looks like Chris Sheridan used it in that column. Accordingly, all of his opinions have been disregarded.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Wow. I didn't realize Bonzi Wells rebounded that well.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

BULLHITTER said:


> nice spin......yea, i'll agree it's comical, alright..... for cav support to think that scott pollard provides any "strength" in the froncourt. AV is undersized (read;skinny) for a 5, so nobody will be shaking in their boots when he's in the paint. drew "low IQ" gooden might not be a top 15 pf, i haven't counted the better ones than him, except maybe for AV......(lol)
> 
> further, while i don't share "the piston is small" nonsense, sheed and mcdyess are better than gooden and "sideshow bob". plus nazr is a competent fill in. further, miami can roll out alonzo and shaq and there's no contest, even at their advanced age. marshall's due this year for his every other season of 25+ games missed due to (fill in ailment here)..... and he vs. haslem and toine is a wash.


ROFL. You put numbers that have to do with more minutes played rather then how well the Cavs player actually rebound and try to act like I'm putting spin on the situation. Why is MPG important because of the Cavs depth no Cavs frontcourt after Lebron will play more then 30 mpg this upcoming season. Again every reputable NBA stats people will use rebound rate to judge how good a player is as it takes minutes played into account and actually rebounds that are available to be had. The Cavs if you include Z have *3 players in the top 15 in RBR.* The Cavs frontcourt has one weakness in that they don't have a bulky defender but in terms of rebouding we're arguably the best overall team (2nd in total rebounds and 5th in opponent rebounds). 

Plus when comparing us to Detroit: you forget to mention Z and Marshall. What's hilarious, in any case is that both Detroit and Miami are in the top 3 frontcourts in the East and we're right up there with them despite you delibrately not bring our 250 pd SF named Lebron into the equation! 

In addition, you're other logic is also extremely flawed: i.e. Marshall is due for injury this year but not Shaq whose gotten injured every year since he turned 30 and Mourning who also has a kidney ailment?


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> In addition, you're other logic is also extremely flawed: i.e. Marshall is due for injury this year but not Shaq whose gotten injured every year since he turned 30 and Mourning who also has a kidney ailment?


shaq has 4 rings, count 'em *rings*......regardless of how many games he's missed, no argument is worth perpetuating versus donyell marshall, who's a serviceable journeyman player (with suspect health issues) but not of any serious distinction. i liked him when he was with the bull, but he's what he is.....a serviceable player.

mourning; without the kidney ailment, more than likely a HOF; argue if you wish but....versus marshall? i'll stop there......

lastly, showing the league leaders in rebounds wasn't for the sake of showing mpg, or projected over 48 minutes or whatever spin provides cav fans with a positive outlook on their team, that's cool; the season's a long one. although if none of these "strong frontcourt players" play more than 30 minutes, there's 18 more left to be played; is the suggestion that lebron going to take up the slack for them? or do cav fans feel like he's superhuman enough to cure *any* ills, shortcomings, lack thereof on the roster? lebron's going to cover for the missing guard play (no point, no backup for the brittle hughes), get rebounds for the extra 18 minutes when the lead-footed Z, or foul prone varajeo, and/or MIA gooden are off the court, all while getting 30+ ppg, 7-8 boards and 6-7 assists? wow, he's better than michael jordan!!! 

oh, that's right cav fans *already* believe that....

for the sake of the cav success, i certainly hope so. btw, denial is a river in egypt. good luck to the cavs this year.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

BULLHITTER said:


> shaq has 4 rings, count em rings......regardless of how many games he's missed, no argument is worth perpetuating versus donyell marshall.
> 
> mourning; without the kidney ailment, more than likely a HOF; argue if you wish but....versus marshall? i'll stop there......
> 
> ...


Wait... you're arguing that Shaq isn't due for an injury* because he has 4 championships???*
Or maybe you're arguing that Shaq's injuries won't reduce Miami's depth at frontcourt. Either way, I think you've confused yourself at this point.


Also, I don't think you understand the concept of depth. Depth is what allows these players to play fewer than 30 minutes. If they played more than 30 minutes, it would show a relative lack of depth. The fact that they're extremely productive in the <30 minutes they need to be on the court just goes to further show the depth.

Again, I think you might be confused as to how depth shows up in the box score...


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

BULLHITTER said:


> shaq has 4 rings, count em rings......regardless of how many games he's missed, no argument is worth perpetuating versus donyell marshall.
> 
> mourning; without the kidney ailment, more than likely a HOF; argue if you wish but....versus marshall? i'll stop there......
> 
> ...


You keep digging yourself in the hole: Marshall is our 5th best frontcourt player: no one hear is saying he is equivalent to Shaq or Mourning. What is clear is that it is far more likely that Shaq or Mourning will be hurt. Touting injury concerns is a poor argument unless you're talking about Grant Hill

You're math is also terrible: We have 4 players for 2 spots (C and PF) that's 96 minutes total. All 4 players are very good and provide different aspects to match up with other teams 96/4 is 26 mpg. The suggestion is that we have too much talent up front to give everyone 40 mpg: that's a problem we're glad to have. The fact is that when you add Lebron to our PF/C spots (last time I checked frontcourt was the C/PF/SF) then we clearly have one of the best frontcourts in the league. If you want to criticize the Cavs, you're barking up the wrong tree - look at the PG spots not the frontcourt


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> ^ Umm you might want to look at rebound rate which take minutes played into account and not raw numbers particularly since AV was hurt he didn't qualify for the season numbers:
> 
> Gooden 18.1
> AV 18.2
> ...


OWNED...But anyways, I think we'll finish at least 2nd in the division and at the very least 3rd in the division. A lot of those ESPN analyst are hating for no apparent reason but hey, we'll prove them wrong in the regular season.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Windhorst's latest thoughts:


> I'm shaking off the malaise that has been the preseason. Frankly there has been little to write about and not much but mental note-taking during this training camp. I can sense the team hasn't been too interested in things over the last 10 days or so. They are quite bored with practice, which is one of the reasons Mike Brown gave them this whole weekend off. Here's some stuff I've noticed:
> 
> --Shannon Brown and Daniel Gibson aren't going to play right now. Both were OK in the preseason, they had some moments. But they were also on the floor and partially responsible for the blowing of three leads and losses.
> 
> ...



http://blogs.ohio.com/cavaliers_blog/

Really two rookies playing w/o starters might blow some leads? How about playing them with Lebron and Hughes instead where there strenghts and weaknesses would be complemented. That wouldn't be a good idea since both Wesley and Brown look washed up?


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Brown and Gibson didn't blow those leads. Put Snow on the court with the scrubs and let's see Snow hold the fort with the scrubs. Yeah, it's simply not happening. One person (except for LBJ) wouldn't so well with that unit.

And claiming Snow is Cleveland's best point guard? If that's true, then Gibson and Brown must really suck. You draft a first and second rounder, yet neither can contribute what Snow, one of the worst starting guards in the league, can? If that's true, Cleveland's future isn't bright. Needless to say, I don't agree with that at all.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Beacon Journal | 10/30/2006 | Cavaliers enter new stratosphere*












> *Cavaliers enter new stratosphere*
> *Expectations change; nothing less than success*
> 
> By Brian Windhorst
> ...


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