# darko will be star this year



## visionary432 (Jun 14, 2003)




----------



## KiNgJaMeZ (Jun 6, 2005)

Post deleted, comments not necessary.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

KiNgJaMeZ said:


> Quote deleted


What does that have to do with anything here?


----------



## jminges (Aug 25, 2005)

In the D-League.


----------



## TonyMontana_83 (Dec 4, 2004)

> In the D-League.


 LOL. Zing.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

jminges said:


> In the D-League.


He's not even eligible for it. Could have been more creative.


----------



## md6655321 (Sep 19, 2004)

6 blocks, 5 boards tonight and he made it to the line 12 times in 21 minutes.

Although he was 0-5 from the field. The kid is going to be very good. His shotblocking alone is enough to make him a starting center in this league.

He still has quite a frontline to beat out for minutes, but he is finally showing he can play to those who have been hating him for two years.


----------



## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

anyone can be great in preseason.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

He's averaging 9 points 6 boards and 4 blocks in only 24 minutes over the first 3 preseason games.

He's definately been showing something.


----------



## AtomGreen (Jun 7, 2004)

BenGordon said:


> anyone can be great in preseason.


That is completely untrue. 

I believe Darko leads the league in blocked shots in the preseason at 4 bpg. Can anyone lead the league in blocked shots in the preseason as well? It's not like he's receiving a ton of minutes either. He's doing all of this in just 20 minutes a game. 

Just imagine if he were on a team like Atlanta and was receiving 30+ minutes a game?


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

He's showing he deserves to play for the Pistons


----------



## md6655321 (Sep 19, 2004)

Anyone can score in preseason, but points are the most misleading stat. Consistently getting rebounds and blocks is something that isnt easy to do, regardless, especially blocks. I think he is averaging 4 a game in about 20 minutes, you cant simply disregard that stat.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

AtomGreen said:


> That is completely untrue.
> 
> I believe Darko leads the league in blocked shots in the preseason at 4 bpg. Can anyone lead the league in blocked shots in the preseason as well? It's not like he's receiving a ton of minutes either. He's doing all of this in just 20 minutes a game.
> 
> Just imagine if he were on a team like Atlanta and was receiving 30+ minutes a game?


Hench the reason why Atlanta tried to trade Al Harrington for Darko earlier this summer and also the reason Detroit didn't even think about it.


----------



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Relative to last year, perhaps.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Mike luvs KG said:


> He's averaging 9 points 6 boards and 4 blocks in only 24 minutes over the first 3 preseason games.
> 
> He's definately been showing something.


Hopefully he plays more in the regular season. It's not too late for him to be a very good player.


----------



## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

BenGordon said:


> anyone can be great in preseason.



bet you wouldnt even get to bounce the ball without being stripped.


Point is, its pre-season, sure the scrubs get to play more minutes and the stars take it easy, but saying "anyone" can be "great" is BS.


And about Darko, give him minutes and I think he can prove he belongs in the league. Not sure if he's going to be star, but anyone with talent can stagnate or flourish... depends on how the team uses him/her.

Darko will not be star in a Piston uniform...most likely. But if he gets around 12-14 minutes a game, i think he will improve two folds in just 1 season. Its all about getting exposed to the NBA style and getting experience.. bad or good on the way.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

1 Penny said:


> Darko will not be star in a Piston uniform...most likely. But if he gets around 12-14 minutes a game, i think he will improve two folds in just 1 season. Its all about getting exposed to the NBA style and getting experience.. bad or good on the way.


If Darko is ever going to be a star you better believe it's in Detroit. Do you really think Joe Dumars took him over Melo just to let him set for 4 years and then blow up like JO did? I am pretty sure the Pistons have a plan for how this is going to work out.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

visionary432 said:


>


What movie is it? Is he the leading man or supporting actor?

I bet its a love story. 

Am I right?


----------



## JustinSane (May 26, 2003)

Interesting statistical comparison from the preseason stats thus far:

Bogut per 48 14.67 points .66 blocks 1.33 steal 4.69 assists 12 rebound 4 turnover 12 shots
Darko per 48 20.57 points 9.12 blocks 0 steal 2.28 assists 13.68 rebound 5.92 turnovers 12.92 shots


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

JustinSane said:


> Interesting statistical comparison from the preseason stats thus far:
> 
> Bogut per 48 14.67 points .66 blocks 1.33 steal 4.69 assists 12 rebound 4 turnover 12 shots
> Darko per 48 20.57 points 9.12 blocks 0 steal 2.28 assists 13.68 rebound 5.92 turnovers 12.92 shots



Not realy. Not realy interesting or relevant at all now that I think about it.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Not realy. Not realy interesting or relevant at all now that I think about it.


How is not relevant?

If anything it's extra relevant because they've even gone head to head already.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Not realy. Not realy interesting or relevant at all now that I think about it.


Just because you have something out for the guy doesn't mean your right.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Mike luvs KG said:


> How is not relevant?
> 
> If anything it's extra relevant because they've even gone head to head already.



That they did and the Pistons all around won the game. Including in all of Darko's matchups.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Mike luvs KG said:


> How is not relevant?
> 
> If anything it's extra relevant because they've even gone head to head already.



Its Boguts 2nd or 3rd game, thats why. I would love to take Darko's stats from his first preseason games. I dont feel like looking it up but Ill give you a hint as to what they look like 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Its Boguts 2nd or 3rd game, thats why. I would love to take Darko's stats from his first preseason games. I dont feel like looking it up but Ill give you a hint as to what they look like 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000



Who's older? Who has more national team experience? Bogut and Bogut.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

kamego said:


> Just because you have something out for the guy doesn't mean your right.


I've defended Darko in the past when people call him a bust, its way too early to tell. Its a two way street though, Darko will not be a star this year, and a few preseason games mean nothing.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

kamego said:


> Who's older? Who has more national team experience? Bogut and Bogut.


Who got to play and practice with and NBA team under a future HOF coach? Darko and Darko.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> I've defended Darko in the past when people call him a bust, its way too early to tell. Its a two way street though, Darko will not be a star this year, and a few preseason games mean nothing.


No one in this thread said he would be a star this year in the NBA, only one person asked if it was possible. You can't discount his stats compared against Bogut when Darko clearly outplayed him head to head only a few nights ago. Darko has progressed as seen in his national team game play this summer and from watching any of the 3 piston preseason games already.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Who got to play and practice with and NBA team under a future HOF coach? Darko and Darko.


Glad you caught your spelling error. Since you already pointed out Darko's numbers under LB who can you now turn it and around say he really got to play under him? He didn't get the chance to do anything. Bogut is far more experienced in the national game and has seen many more minutes by going to college.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

kamego said:


> No one in this thread said he would be a star this year in the NBA, only one person asked if it was possible. You can't discount his stats compared against Bogut when Darko clearly outplayed him head to head only a few nights ago. Darko has progressed as seen in his national team game play this summer and from watching any of the 3 piston preseason games already.


Then like I said, Ill bring up Darko's stats in his first pre season games like your doing to Boguts. Who do you think will look better?


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Then like I said, Ill bring up Darko's stats in his first pre season games like your doing to Boguts. Who do you think will look better?


I am compared the head to head stats they had when they played each other. I am not comparing how Darko did in the nba at the age of 18 compared to a 21 year old Bogut.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

kamego said:


> Glad you caught your spelling error. Since you already pointed out Darko's numbers under LB who can you now turn it and around say he really got to play under him? He didn't get the chance to do anything. Bogut is far more experienced in the national game and has seen many more minutes by going to college.


Did he not get to attend practice?


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Did he not get to attend practice?


I am sure he did as did Bogut did under a future hall of fame coach for his first 2 years.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

kamego said:


> I am compared the head to head stats they had when they played each other. I am not comparing how Darko did in the nba at the age of 18 compared to a 21 year old Bogut.



Well if you get to use age like a crutch then I will go ahead and use NBA experience as mine.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I still would of picked Anthony or Wade over Darko in the draft.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Well if you get to use age like a crutch then I will go ahead and use NBA experience as mine.


That's fine Darko has what 60 games more experience? Not even a full scheduled season. Darko easily blocked Bogut's shots whenever he was around him and had no trouble posting up on him. I am fine with that comparison.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> I still would of picked Anthony or Wade over Darko in the draft.


The Pistons didn't have Rasheed at the time so if you want to redo the draft, Chris Bosh would have been the most likely pick.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

kamego said:


> I am sure he did as did Bogut did under a future hall of fame coach for his first 2 years.


No one will argue the fact that playing with 1 of the best coaches in the world and the NBA champions is about the best experiance you can get.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> The Pistons didn't have Rasheed at the time so if you want to redo the draft, Chris Bosh would have been the most likely pick.


No

Actually Joe Dumars was going to pick Anthony over Darko. Dumars verbally commited to Anthony before the draft. Joe/Pistons organization called up Anthony/Agnet 5 days before the draft to tell them they changed their minds and were taking Darko.

Besides that point up above...I would still take Anthony and Wade over Darko based on talent they show cased in college and their first 2 seasons in the NBA.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> No one will argue the fact that playing with 1 of the best coaches in the world and the NBA champions is about the best experiance you can get.


Helping lead your country in the olympics and your college in the NCAAs isn't to shabby either. I would make a case Darko learned more from Rasheed in practice then ever did from Larry Brown. Larry was trying to turn him into a true post player while in took Flip Saunders less then a practice to allow him to run in a motion offense.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> No
> 
> Actually Joe Dumars was going to pick Anthony over Darko. Dumars verbally commited to Anthony before the draft. Joe/Pistons organization called up Anthony/Agnet 5 days before the draft to tell them they changed their minds and were taking Darko.
> 
> Besides that point up above...I would still take Anthony and Wade over Darko based on talent they show cased in college and their first 2 seasons in the NBA.


Wade wasn't even mentioned near the top 4 before the draft. He exploded during his rookie season so he wouldn't have been in the talks yet.

In 2003 I worked for the Detroit Pistons and I can assure you Carmelo Anthony wasn't going to be a pick for a team Larry Brown coached. As later seen in the Olympics it wasn't ment to be. Joe Dumars was only going to take Lebron over Darko from a very early on point. JD was always a high supporter of Prince and didn't believe we needed a SF more then a big


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> No
> 
> Actually Joe Dumars was going to pick Anthony over Darko. Dumars verbally commited to Anthony before the draft. Joe/Pistons organization called up Anthony/Agnet 5 days before the draft to tell them they changed their minds and were taking Darko.
> 
> Besides that point up above...I would still take Anthony and Wade over Darko based on talent they show cased in college and their first 2 seasons in the NBA.


That's not true.

Anthony never even worked out for the Pistons.

The morning of the lottery Darko had a great workout with Detroit and Dumars really wanted him but never thought he would be there at #8 or wherever the Memphis pick was supposed to be. When the lottery turned out the way it did it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that they would take Darko. The lottery was during I believe half time of Game 3 of the Pistons-Nets series that year and by half time of Game 4 they were already reporting Dumars would take Darko.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

kamego said:


> Helping lead your country in the olympics and your college in the NCAAs isn't to shabby either. I would make a case Darko learned more from Rasheed in practice then ever did from Larry Brown. Larry was trying to turn him into a true post player while in took Flip Saunders less then a practice to allow him to run in a motion offense.


Well I could stay up all night and argue this, as could you, but its obvious neither of us are going to change our minds on this anytime soon. Not doubting that Darko is talented, but its ****ing ridiculous that you guys have been telling people "Hes young, dont judge him on his first two seasons. Its way too early to call him a bust.", and then turning around after a few *PRE SEASON* games and talk him up so much. If people outside of Detroit dont get to judge him after 2 seasons, then why in the hell is it that after 3 or so preseason games that we all get to hear about how great he is now?

Doesnt add up to me, and this is comming from someone whos defended Darko in the past. Who knows though, maybe my logic is flawed.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Darko worked out for the pistons 6 hours before the lottery took place.

LBJ and Carmelo were never in Detroit for a workout.

Mike hit the nail right on the head.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Well I could stay up all night and argue this, as could you, but its obvious neither of us are going to change our minds on this anytime soon. Not doubting that Darko is talented, but its ****ing ridiculous that you guys have been telling people "Hes young, dont judge him on his first two seasons. Its way too early to call him a bust.", and then turning around after a few *PRE SEASON* games and talk him up so much. If people outside of Detroit dont get to judge him after 2 seasons, then why in the hell is it that after 3 or so preseason games that we all get to hear about how great he is now?
> 
> Doesnt add up to me, and this is comming from someone whos defended Darko in the past. Who knows though, maybe my logic is flawed.


I haven't said he is fully developed or going to be a star this season. You mearly made a comment in another thread that I thought he was going to be a star this year so I made sure to argue with you on any topic you used on this thread. :biggrin: 
I am not judging Darko on 3 preseason games. I am taking into account every summer league game, every national league practice game, all of the Euro championships, the open practice the Pistons held, and then the preseason games. Every game he has taken his development another step further and I think he is beyond Bogut in terms of defensive play, while he doesn't score as easily yet.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Fair enough. I for one hope you guys are right about Darko since hes been bashed so hard over the past 2 years. Then again, I am a Pacers fan and the last thing they need is Detroit to have more depth.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Fair enough. I for one hope you guys are right about Darko since hes been bashed so hard over the past 2 years. Then again, I am a Pacers fan and the last thing they need is Detroit to have more depth.


I have a 50 50 shot. Either I am right and he becomes a player and my 2 years of argueing was well worth it or everyone can make fun of me as the guy who backed the new sam bowie for 3 years lol.

We'll see in due time.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

This is what Carmelo Anthony said on the Stephen A show Quite Frankly With Stephen A. About the Pistons and his draft class.

*Stephen A of course mocked the pistons pick in Darko. Although what I found interesting is that the Pistons were planning on taking Carmelo all the way up to 5 days before the draft took place. Carmelo had met with Joe Dumars and he told Carmelo that he was there pick. Than 5 days before the draft they called Melo and said they were not going to draft him.*

Also for those of you who think Wade wasn't being talked about going higher is false. Wade just didnt receive the same mainstream hype has James and Carmelo. All the NBA scouts were well aware of Wade and it's not as if Wade was a late 1st round pick. Wade was the 5th Pick in the Draft.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Mike luvs KG said:


> That's not true.
> 
> Anthony never even worked out for the Pistons.
> 
> The morning of the lottery Darko had a great workout with Detroit and Dumars really wanted him but never thought he would be there at #8 or wherever the Memphis pick was supposed to be. When the lottery turned out the way it did it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that they would take Darko. The lottery was during I believe half time of Game 3 of the Pistons-Nets series that year and by half time of Game 4 they were already reporting Dumars would take Darko.


Yes it's true. And I said up to 5 days before the draft Joe Dumars had verbally told Carmelo he was there pick.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> This is what Carmelo Anthony said on the Stephen A show Quite Frankly With Stephen A. About the Pistons and his draft class.
> 
> *Stephen A of course mocked the pistons pick in Darko. Although what I found interesting is that the Pistons were planning on taking Carmelo all the way up to 5 days before the draft took place. Carmelo had met with Joe Dumars and he told Carmelo that he was there pick. Than 5 days before the draft they called Melo and said they were not going to draft him.*
> 
> Also for those of you who think Wade wasn't being talked about going higher is false. Wade just didnt receive the same mainstream hype has James and Wade. All the NBA scouts were well aware of Wade and it's not as if Wade was a late 1st round pick. Wade was the 5th Pick in the Draft.


The Detroit Pistons hyped Carmelo as a 2nd overall pick to put pressure on Darko to quickly buy out his contract. It was rumored at the time he might not get out for a year so they tried to pressure him to make go quick and smoothly. The team pitched in 350,000 if he was able to get the deal done. If you think Melo was an acutal choice of Joe Dumars, that's fine but why didn't he ever work out for the team then? Interesting that Darko was with Joe Dumars the day of the lottery when the Pistons got the luckiest draw in some time. I am not going to believe SAS over the people I worked with while this was all going on at the Palace.

Wade was going top 10 for sure but he was never mentioned in the same regard as the top 4. The scouts all had him at the top of the 2nd tier of the 1st round draft picks. LBJ, Darko, Melo, and Bosh were the set in stone top 4 as soon as they were all signed up for the draft.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> Yes it's true. And I said up to 5 days before the draft Joe Dumars had verbally told Carmelo he was there pick.


It was a tatic to get Darko to buyout his deal not to acutally draft Carmelo. At the time of the draft it was even rumored that Denver would have taken Darko over Carmelo.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> Darko worked out for the pistons 6 hours before the lottery took place.
> 
> LBJ and Carmelo were never in Detroit for a workout.
> 
> Mike hit the nail right on the head.


What does this have to do with what I said?

Again I reiterate Carmelo Was verbally told he was the Pistons pick by Joe Dumars up to 5 days before the draft.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> It was a tatic to get Darko to buyout his deal not to acutally draft Carmelo. At the time of the draft it was even rumored that Denver would have taken Darko over Carmelo.


I can't speak to your theorys. However I can speak about what is reported. Watch the interview with Carmelo and Stephen A. Carmelo said himself he met with Joe Dumars. And Joe Dumars told Carmelo he was their guy. And then 5 days before the draft he called Carmelo and told him they were taking Darko.

Now if Joe Dumars lied to Carmelo to do what your suggesting. He may have been I don't know. Joe Dumars can only answer that.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> What does this have to do with what I said?
> 
> Again I reiterate Carmelo Was verbally told he was the Pistons pick by Joe Dumars up to 5 days before the draft.


And again I will tell you as an employee of the team at the time, it was a ploy by Joe Dumars to put pressure on Darko to get his buyout finished. The Pistons did not want to draft him and then let him stay in Europe.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> And again I will tell you as an employee of the team at the time, it was a ploy by Joe Dumars to put pressure on Darko to get his buyout finished. The Pistons did not want to draft him and then let him stay in Europe.


Read the post up above.

Also my point besides Joe Dumars telling Carmelo he was there guy. Was that I would of taken Anthony or Wade over Darko.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> I can't speak to your theorys. However I can speak about what is reported. Watch the interview with Carmelo and Stephen A. Carmelo said himself he met with Joe Dumars. And Joe Dumars told Carmelo he was their guy. And then 5 days before the draft he called Carmelo and told him they were taking Darko.
> 
> Now if Joe Dumars lied to Carmelo to do what your suggesting. He may have been I don't know. Joe Dumars can only answer that.


It is common practice for this to happen in the NBA, more so when dealing with high picks. Joe Dumars give Prince assurance they wouldn't be drafting someone to start over him in that draft a few weeks before it took place.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> It is common practice for this to happen in the NBA, more so when dealing with high picks. Joe Dumars give Prince assurance they wouldn't be drafting someone to start over him in that draft a few weeks before it took place.


Again I'm speaking about an actual fact that happened. It's been reported that Joe Dumars verbally told Anthony he was their guy. What you speak about is speculation/theory until its reported. I'm not saying you are wrong, but you can't say I am either.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> Again I'm speaking about an actual fact that happened. It's been reported that Joe Dumars verbally told Anthony he was their guy. What you speak about is speculation/theory until its reported. I'm not saying you are wrong, but you can't say I am either.


I am not saying what Carmelo said wasn't true. What I am saying is it isn't the whole story. He was a ploy in a move by the Pistons to get Darko's buyout done in time. I am not trying to say what your saying is wrong or anything like that but I am trying to add the other side of the story.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> I am not saying what Carmelo said wasn't true. What I am saying is it isn't the whole story. He was a ploy in a move by the Pistons to get Darko's buyout done in time. I am not trying to say what your saying is wrong or anything like that but I am trying to add the other side of the story.


I'm sure there is truth to your story. I'm just skeptical of anything anymore if it's not fact..Meaning the parties involved speak to the point and it's reported. However I realize its a business what your speaking of probably happens all the time.

My only point was that If I'm Carmelo Anthony I can only go by what the man says to my face. I can't sit around and think about bussiness strategies Joe Dumars is trying to use to actually get another player.

Carmelo was very dissapointed when he found out 5 days before the draft he wasn't going to be picked by the Pistons. He said that Joe had given him his word.

Again though I would pick Carmelo and Wade over Darko and obviously James.


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> This is what Carmelo Anthony said on the Stephen A show Quite Frankly With Stephen A. About the Pistons and his draft class.
> 
> *Stephen A of course mocked the pistons pick in Darko. Although what I found interesting is that the Pistons were planning on taking Carmelo all the way up to 5 days before the draft took place. Carmelo had met with Joe Dumars and he told Carmelo that he was there pick. Than 5 days before the draft they called Melo and said they were not going to draft him.*
> 
> Also for those of you who think Wade wasn't being talked about going higher is false. Wade just didnt receive the same mainstream hype has James and Carmelo. All the NBA scouts were well aware of Wade and it's not as if Wade was a late 1st round pick. Wade was the 5th Pick in the Draft.


Nope. Read Mike KG post again. There is no point in me retyping what all the Piston supporters know to be the truth. Joe D. flat out told Melo not to come to his workout with them, not to bother, as in he already made up his mind.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

NBA Rumors: Are the Nuggets Melo?
By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
Updated: June 2003
http://www.dallas-mavs.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=9958

Thats a copy of the article I found. Its from 10 days before the draft when Joe Dumars pubically cancelled Carmelo's workout and told ESPN he would draft Darko Milicic.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> NBA Rumors: Are the Nuggets Melo?
> By Chad Ford
> NBA Insider
> Updated: June 2003
> ...


Not from what Carmelo said. I will take the word from the horses mouth. Also Joe Dumars didnt dispute anything Anthony said on the show. I believe he was asked about it by the press.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

I am just saying the only thing I could find that had Joe Dumars saying anything, was 10 days before the draft he never worked out Carmelo and Darko was going to be the pick. At this point the buyout is a non-issue also.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> I am just saying the only thing I could find that had Joe Dumars saying anything, was 10 days before the draft he never worked out Carmelo and Darko was going to be the pick. At this point the buyout is a non-issue also.


Well I haven't read the article. I will check it out later. If the article says they are taking Darko and nobody else in the draft. Than obviously Carmelo and His camp didnt get word of it. Carmelo said Joe Dumars called him and told him 5 days before the draft they were taking Darko.


----------



## md6655321 (Sep 19, 2004)

This is rediculous. Are you actually going off something you heard on Steven A. Smith's show? Think about that for a second.


Speaking as someone who lived in Detroit when this all happened, and as someone who read countless articles about the draft and the lottery. Anyone who had any connections to the organization or read anything about the draft knew the Pistons were taking Darko. This was known within a few days of the lottery taking place. There was absolutely no question whatsoever, and anything Carmelo or Steven A say is wrong on this matter. Our top foreign scout had been hyping him for years. Joe D. was sold on him well before the lottery or the draft. Darko was the pick. There is absolutely no question about this among anyone with any ties to Detroit or the organization. I can not possibly be more unequivocal on this fact. If Carmelo did not know this fact early on in the process, then he is even dumber than many of us think he is.

In fact, I am pretty sure even Denver would have taken Darko, In fact, the dirty little secret is that most GMs would have taken Darko over Carmelo. Some even hinted that they would have taken Darko over LeBron.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

md6655321 said:


> This is rediculous. Are you actually going off something you heard on Steven A. Smith's show? Think about that for a second.
> 
> 
> Speaking as someone who lived in Detroit when this all happened, and as someone who read countless articles about the draft and the lottery. Anyone who had any connections to the organization or read anything about the draft knew the Pistons were taking Darko. This was known within a few days of the lottery taking place. There was absolutely no question whatsoever, and anything Carmelo or Steven A say is wrong on this matter. Our top foreign scout had been hyping him for years. Joe D. was sold on him well before the lottery or the draft. Darko was the pick. There is absolutely no question about this among anyone with any ties to Detroit or the organization. I can not possibly be more unequivocal on this fact. If Carmelo did not know this fact early on in the process, then he is even dumber than many of us think he is.
> ...


No Stephen A didnt say anything, Stephen A asked Carmelo what he thought about Darko being drafted before him.

Carmelo told Stephen A that Joe Dumars had told him he was there guy. And five days before the draft took place Joe Dumars called Carmelo and told him they were taking Darko.

You may not believe it's true, but thats apparently what happened. I haven't seen Joe Dumars dispute anything Carmelo said.


----------



## md6655321 (Sep 19, 2004)

I havent heard Michael Jordan dispute the fact that I am a better basketball player than him either. Joe D's lack of response on the matter is hardly evidence of anything.

It is possible that Dumars called Carmelo to tell him that he wouldnt be the pick. I can also guarantee that at no point before then did Joe D call Carmelo and tell him that he would be the pick.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

md6655321 said:


> I havent heard Michael Jordan dispute the fact that I am a better basketball player than him either. Joe D's lack of response on the matter is hardly evidence of anything.
> 
> It is possible that Dumars called Carmelo to tell him that he wouldnt be the pick. I can also guarantee that at no point before then did Joe D call Carmelo and tell him that he would be the pick.


Than thats what you disagree with Carmelo on not me. I'm simply reporting what has been said. Carmelo Anthony said he met in person with Joe Dumars. Carmelo said that Joe Dumars told Carmelo Anthony that he was there man/pick.

Carmelo said he thought he was going to be a Piston up untill he got a phone call from Joe Dumars 5 days before the draft. Carmelo said he was very dissapointed.

Watch the Interivew. I'm not making this up for any reason. This is whats happening. The Michael Jordan correlation isn't the same thing. Where Carmelo was picked right after Darko. I'm sure you were never in the same basketball class as Jordan. I only said Joe Dumars didnt dispute it because if he had than I would never even mentioned this. I thought that was obvious.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Read the ESPN insider article about this all I posted earlier. It tells you the jist of what happened and when.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> Read the ESPN insider article about this all I posted earlier. It tells you the jist of what happened and when.


Your guys dispute isn't with me....... I'm simply reporting to you what Carmelo said happened up to 5 days to the draft.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

I am not argueing with anyone, I am just saying if anyone wants to see what other people offically reported, then check it out.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> I am not argueing with anyone, I am just saying if anyone wants to see what other people offically reported, then check it out.


Gotcha...it's interesting if the Pistons were telling everyone that Darko would be their pick and their only pick long before 5 days before the draft. How it was Joe Dumars was telling Carmelo Anthony he was there guy/pick until the 5th day before the draft.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> Gotcha...it's interesting if the Pistons were telling everyone that Darko would be their pick and their only pick long before 5 days before the draft. How it was Joe Dumars was telling Carmelo Anthony he was there guy/pick until the 5th day before the draft.


My guess is either Dumars was sending mixed signals all around to try and push Darko to finish a buyout quickly or Carmelo was just giving the number he remembered. I mean he could have thought it was 5 days but maybe it was 9 or 10. Who knows. Those kinds of details we will never know. It would be interesting to see if Darko would say when he was assured the pick though. I have a feeling it was sometime a lot sooner.


----------



## joshed_up (Aug 6, 2005)

i hope Darko develops. it'd be fun to watch him play and earn more PT


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I think Carmelo's agent was probably feeding him some lines.

He was never going to get drafted second. The Pistons were enamored with Darko before they even had the 2nd pick.

His agent was probably telling him he was going 2nd, but to anyone paying attention at the time, it was obvious it was going to be Darko weeks before the draft.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Mike luvs KG said:


> He's averaging 9 points 6 boards and 4 blocks in only 24 minutes over the first 3 preseason games.
> 
> He's definately been showing something.


What's that? Showing the fact that anybody, no matter how bad they are, can produce in the preseason?


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Mike luvs KG said:


> I think Carmelo's agent was probably feeding him some lines.
> 
> He was never going to get drafted second. The Pistons were enamored with Darko before they even had the 2nd pick.
> 
> His agent was probably telling him he was going 2nd, but to anyone paying attention at the time, it was obvious it was going to be Darko weeks before the draft.


Actually it was Joe Dumars that told Carmelo himself that he was their man/pick.

Read my posts from up above. Carmelo talked about it at length in an interview with Stephen A.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Personally, I'll believe the Chad Ford article long before I believe Carmelo's memory. You think he remembers the exact amount of days before the draft Dumars spoke with him? It was probably more like a week and a half than it was five days. That article, from 10 days before the draft, has QUOTES FROM ANTHONY SAYING HE WAS EXCITED ABOUT THE CHANGE OF PLANS AND GOING TO DENVER.

You can't have more proof than this that Carmelo's memory is FAULTY. And that what he said isn't worth believing, you really should stop defending his quote before you dig a deeper hole.


-Chris.


----------



## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Don't know about being a star but I'd sure as hell love to see him get more minutes.


----------



## BULLS23 (Apr 13, 2003)

Star might be stretching it more than a bit, but he's going to be productive if he gets some minutes . . . Of course he's got Wallace, Wallace, Davis, and McDyess in front of him so it will be quite the trick if he gets much PT this year barring any significant injury. However, if Flip decides to limit Davis' minutes in the regular season, that might bode well for Darko. It'll be an interesting juggling act, cause I do believe his rookie contract is up (or perhaps a team option next year)?


----------



## P33r~ (Nov 22, 2004)

BULLS23 said:


> Star might be stretching it more than a bit, but he's going to be productive if he gets some minutes . . . Of course he's got Wallace, Wallace, Davis, and McDyess in front of him so it will be quite the trick if he gets much PT this year barring any significant injury. However, if Flip decides to limit Davis' minutes in the regular season, that might bode well for Darko. It'll be an interesting juggling act, cause I do believe his rookie contract is up (or perhaps a team option next year)?


Actually Darko is ahead of Davis in their lineup, so the only bench player he will really have to compete with is Mcdyess.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

What P33r said. Darko is essentially playing behind the Wallaces and McDyess right now. Davis is going to be a situational big man. Darko is also semi-behind Prince as Flip Saunders has stated (I believe) that Darko could be slid into the 3 for spot moments when the Pistons go to a bigger lineup and play the zone (he could be a very effective defender at the 3 in a zone defense with his in-effing-credible 7'8" wingspan).


-Chris.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Chris Ford isn't liked by many but it should be pointed out he has close connections in Detroit's front office. I usually take his word on what he says when it's Piston related.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

BULLS23 said:


> Star might be stretching it more than a bit, but he's going to be productive if he gets some minutes . . . Of course he's got Wallace, Wallace, Davis, and McDyess in front of him so it will be quite the trick if he gets much PT this year barring any significant injury. However, if Flip decides to limit Davis' minutes in the regular season, that might bode well for Darko. It'll be an interesting juggling act, cause I do believe his rookie contract is up (or perhaps a team option next year)?


At this point, Darko is clearly a better player than Dale Davis. I really don't see Dale getting very many minutes this year. Maybe against Shaq some. But barring injury that's about it.

Darko has looked better than Dyess so far as well, but his jumper has been off and you know that's going to come around.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Darko is very likely a bust. Someone bump this if I'm wrong.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> Darko is very likely a bust. Someone bump this if I'm wrong.


What is your basis for that judgement?


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

EHL said:


> Darko is very likely a bust. Someone bump this if I'm wrong.



Sure thing. Is now too soon for the bump?


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

kamego said:


> Sure thing. Is now too soon for the bump?


I would say that right now is too soon, considering Darko still hasn't done a damn thing in his career.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

Darko comes onto a championship team and you want him to do something _spectacular_? Anyone who calls him a "bust" at this point in time is just misinformed and lacks general NBA knowledge.
If you think he will be a bust that is a different story, everyone is entitled to their opinion but most likely you don't know much about him if thats what you are saying.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Just because he doesn't sucks don't mean he'll be a star automatically. He'll be decent this year, stardom will come after a few more years.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Just because he doesn't sucks don't mean he'll be a star automatically. He'll be decent this year, stardom will come after a few more years.


I agree. I wasn't trying to say he will be a star this year, I was just refering to the "bust" comment. Who knows what the future holds for Darko.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

casebeck22 said:


> I agree. I wasn't trying to say he will be a star this year, I was just refering to the "bust" comment. Who knows what the future holds for Darko.


At this point in his career though, I don't think you can call him anything other than a bust.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

socco said:


> At this point in his career though, I don't think you can call him anything other than a bust.


How is he a bust though? He hasn't shown anything either way. He is still on the team and averaging about 10 blocks per 48 minutes.... It's not like he has been cut and his career is over.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

kamego said:


> How is he a bust though? He hasn't shown anything either way. He is still on the team and averaging about 10 blocks per 48 minutes.... It's not like he has been cut and his career is over.


I never said he was a bust, but if you had to classify him as anything right now there's no discussion, it would be as a bust. 1.6ppg, 1.2rpg, 2nd overall pick. 'Nuff said. Will he improve? Most likely, but at this point in his career he's nothing, and nothing from a #2 pick (even given the circumstances) is not acceptable.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

socco said:


> At this point in his career though, I don't think you can call him anything other than a bust.


A bust is someone who never improves, never helps the team, never amounts to anything. You can't justify someone being a bust until you give them a shot. Darko came onto arguably the best Pistons team ever. How is he supposed to come in and play. I think you classifying him as a bust is completly misinformed and wrong.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

BenGordon said:


> anyone can be great in preseason.


Joke?


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

casebeck22 said:


> What is your basis for that judgement?


He has done nothing in his career. Arguably less than nothing. 



kamego said:


> Sure thing. Is now too soon for the bump?


Trick question? 



kamego said:


> How is he a bust though? He hasn't shown anything either way. He is still on the team and averaging about 10 blocks per 48 minutes.... It's not like he has been cut and his career is over.


Do you know what the definition of bust is? The guy was picked 2nd in the 2003 NBA draft. Since then, here are his career averages: 1.6/1.2/0.2 on 29.8% FG%. He once got rejected by an orange NBA rim. 

This is the definition of bust, and it's not arguable. Averaging 10 blocks per 48 in preseason is just about the worse support for "He's not a bust" that I can think of. Wait until he does jack in the regular season, _anything_, and then I'll retract my statement and say he's worth a damn. Right now, there is no reason to believe he'll be any good. 



casebeck22 said:


> Joke?


No actually, it's plain, unadulterated fact. *Fact*.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

casebeck22 said:


> A bust is someone who never improves, never helps the team, never amounts to anything. You can't justify someone being a bust until you give them a shot. Darko came onto arguably the best Pistons team ever. How is he supposed to come in and play. I think you classifying him as a bust is completly misinformed and wrong.


To this point in the discussion I have never called Darko a bust, you need to pay closer attention to what I've said. You won't have to worry about that anymore, because after thinking about it more, Darko most certainly is a bust at this point in his career (the most important words in that sentence were the last 6, please don't ignore them). Will that change, I'm not gonna argue with you if you say it will. But at this point in his career (again, don't ignore that part of it) he is a bust. 1.6 and 1.2 in two years out of the #2 pick? That's a bust. That doesn't mean he'll be a bust his entire career, but right now he is. You don't have to play alot to be a bust.


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

socco said:


> *To this point in the discussion I have never called Darko a bust, you need to pay closer attention to what I've said. * You won't have to worry about that anymore, because after thinking about it more, *Darko most certainly is a bust * at this point in his career (the most important words in that sentence were the last 6, please don't ignore them). Will that change, I'm not gonna argue with you if you say it will. But at this point in his career (again, don't ignore that part of it) he is a bust. 1.6 and 1.2 in two years out of the #2 pick? That's a bust. That doesn't mean he'll be a bust his entire career, but right now he is. You don't have to play alot to be a bust.


Wow, just.... WOWZER! Are you the guy they based the movie Momento on? Do you have that bad of a memory, I am very concerned for you.



> At this point in his career though, I don't think you can call him anything other than a bust.


No matter how you are going to word your statements, it is obvious how you feel about Darko. I'm not going to go into that particular portion of your statements. People keep bringing up Darko's career stats but never display the minutes he has played as well as the time in the game that he does get his minimal PT. And for some odd reason, folks continue to disregard the fact that the Pistons have gone to back2back Finals since they drafted Darko. In addition, he had a coach that is notorious for having favorite players and hated players on his team as well as a strict and short rotation. Then we can look at the depth at Darko's position the two seasons that he has been in the league; Year 1 -- Big Ben, Sheed, Okur, Campbell and Williamson / Year 2 -- Ben, Sheed, Dyess, Campbell. Milicic was also injured in the last minute of Detroit's championship season and could not practice all summer. There are plenty of reasons for Darko's stunted growth and lack of production on a championship team. Last but not least, HE IS 20 YEARS OLD AND WON'T TURN 21 TILL JUNE 06'.

Now, let us look at the 2003 draftees in the lottery and their career progression-- Hayes, Pietrus, Banks have all had more than enough PT to show 'something' yet all three have not lived up to their lottery status are they busts? I would argue that they can be considered closer to a bust pick than Darko, at the least they have had a CHANCE in MEANINGFUL MINUTES to show something. 2004 draftees; Is Biedrins a bust? How about Childress or Swift or Harris? How about Araujo.. oh, wait he most certainly is....


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

EHL said:


> Do you know what the definition of bust is? The guy was picked 2nd in the 2003 NBA draft. Since then, here are his career averages: 1.6/1.2/0.2 on 29.8% FG%. He once got rejected by an orange NBA rim.
> 
> This is the definition of bust, and it's not arguable. Averaging 10 blocks per 48 in preseason is just about the worse support for "He's not a bust" that I can think of. Wait until he does jack in the regular season, _anything_, and then I'll retract my statement and say he's worth a damn. Right now, there is no reason to believe he'll be any good.
> 
> ...


Wow. So was Carson Palmer a bust becaues he didn't play in a game for Cincy his first year? How about Jermaine O'Neal since he did nothing his first 3 years? You can't label someone a bust because they are developing. Ryan Leaf is a bust because his career is over and he never did anything with it. Labeling a 20 year old, who was said to need 3 to 4 years to develop at the start, a bust is a mistake. It justs a big red flag that says you don't care what he does because you don't like him. Your missing using the word bust here and if you think I am wrong it doesn't matter. This thread is becoming a waste of time because people don't care what Darko does. He could save the world from aliens trying to take over and people would still say, well Carmelo, Bosh, or Wade would have been a better pick in 2003. yawnnn no one in Detroit cares though. Darko has two nba final apperances. More then anyone in the 2003 draft class for that fact. So go head respond and tear apart what I said that you don't like and I will wait 5 minutes, come back and respond again.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

socco said:


> To this point in the discussion I have never called Darko a bust, you need to pay closer attention to what I've said. You won't have to worry about that anymore, because after thinking about it more, Darko most certainly is a bust at this point in his career (the most important words in that sentence were the last 6, please don't ignore them). Will that change, I'm not gonna argue with you if you say it will. But at this point in his career (again, don't ignore that part of it) he is a bust. 1.6 and 1.2 in two years out of the #2 pick? That's a bust. That doesn't mean he'll be a bust his entire career, but right now he is. You don't have to play alot to be a bust.



A bust is someone who does less then they were supposed to. Joe Dumars said Darko would need 3 t to 4 years before he was ready to play in the NBA every night. While would two seasons of nothing be considered a bust if it was common fact he wasn't going to do anything those years anyway?


----------



## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

md6655321 said:


> This is rediculous. Are you actually going off something you heard on Steven A. Smith's show? Think about that for a second.
> 
> 
> Speaking as someone who lived in Detroit when this all happened, and as someone who read countless articles about the draft and the lottery. Anyone who had any connections to the organization or read anything about the draft knew the Pistons were taking Darko. This was known within a few days of the lottery taking place. There was absolutely no question whatsoever, and anything Carmelo or Steven A say is wrong on this matter. Our top foreign scout had been hyping him for years. Joe D. was sold on him well before the lottery or the draft. Darko was the pick. There is absolutely no question about this among anyone with any ties to Detroit or the organization. I can not possibly be more unequivocal on this fact. If Carmelo did not know this fact early on in the process, then he is even dumber than many of us think he is.
> ...


Maybe them other GM's wanted to deceive the Piston's into trowing away their second pick on Darko. The Piston's tryed to play Carmelo, and in the end of the day, the got played by having the biggest bust in the History of the NBA. Considering Carmelo, Bosh, and Wade were available. :biggrin:


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

DWadeistheTruth said:


> Maybe them other GM's wanted to deceive the Piston's into trowing away their second pick on Darko. The Piston's tryed to play Carmelo, and in the end of the day, the got played by having the biggest bust in the History of the NBA. Considering Carmelo, Bosh, and Wade were available. :biggrin:


I don't think that had anything to do with anything here.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

ChrisWoj said:


> Personally, I'll believe the Chad Ford article long before I believe Carmelo's memory. You think he remembers the exact amount of days before the draft Dumars spoke with him? It was probably more like a week and a half than it was five days. That article, from 10 days before the draft, has QUOTES FROM ANTHONY SAYING HE WAS EXCITED ABOUT THE CHANGE OF PLANS AND GOING TO DENVER.
> 
> You can't have more proof than this that Carmelo's memory is FAULTY. And that what he said isn't worth believing, you really should stop defending his quote before you dig a deeper hole.
> 
> ...


I'm not defending anything, I'm simply reporting here What Carmelo said. I think you're taking yourself a little to seriously by suggesting I'm digging myself in a hole. Deal with people having different opinions than you. Wether or not you agree with them. If you believe Carmelo is making this up or doesn't remember because of what that report says that's fine by me. That doesn't mean I can't give another side to the story that came straight from Carmelo Anthonys mouth.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

bananas said:


> No matter how you are going to word your statements, it is obvious how you feel about Darko.


Whether I feel Darko's a bust and whether I said Darko's a bust are two completely different things.




kamego said:


> A bust is someone who does less then they were supposed to. Joe Dumars said Darko would need 3 t to 4 years before he was ready to play in the NBA every night. While would two seasons of nothing be considered a bust if it was common fact he wasn't going to do anything those years anyway?


So he was expected to do this little? There's some middle ground between being ready to play every night and never being ready to ever do anything. Darko was expected to be that middle ground, but instead he's been at one of the extremes. Will that change? Likely. But at this point he has done absolutely nothing. While he wasn't expected to do much, he was expected to be more than this. A bust isn't a permanent label, don't worry. He has plenty of ground to prove that not to be true, but at this point that's exactly what he is.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> I'm not defending anything, I'm simply reporting here What Carmelo said. I think you're taking yourself a little to seriously by suggesting I'm digging myself in a hole. Deal with people having different opinions than you. Wether or not you agree with them. If you believe Carmelo is making this up or doesn't remember because of what that report says that's fine by me. That doesn't mean I can't give another side to the story that came straight from Carmelo Anthonys mouth.


You've been saying the same thing over and over again for 100 posts. Having fun yet? :cheers:


----------



## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

I read the title of the thread and then picked darko second in my fantasy draft... what a waste of a pick


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> Do you know what the definition of bust is? The guy was picked 2nd in the 2003 NBA draft. Since then, here are his career averages: 1.6/1.2/0.2 on 29.8% FG%. He once got rejected by an orange NBA rim.
> 
> This is the definition of bust, and it's not arguable. Averaging 10 blocks per 48 in preseason is just about the worse support for "He's not a bust" that I can think of. Wait until he does jack in the regular season, _anything_, and then I'll retract my statement and say he's worth a damn. Right now, there is no reason to believe he'll be any good.
> 
> No actually, it's plain, unadulterated fact. *Fact*.


You are lacking the basic knowledge of an NBA follower. Darko was selected as a future pick. He was just 18 when the Pistons drafted him. Is there one person who has never missed a dunk? Wow, what a statement that was. You will retract your statement. Like I have said 1,000 times - he was drafted onto a championship team, give him time. You have NO logical reason as to why he can not develop as a player. It is completly ignorant and unlogical to call him a bust. I don't see any reason as to why you can predict that he will do nothing this season.

We know the rim is orange.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

kamego said:


> A bust is someone who does less then they were supposed to. Joe Dumars said Darko would need 3 t to 4 years before he was ready to play in the NBA every night. While would two seasons of nothing be considered a bust if it was common fact he wasn't going to do anything those years anyway?


Amen. Have any of you that don't know what your talking about heard of J. O'Neal? Good logic.


----------



## MCCpride (Jun 14, 2005)

it sounds like a war lol. You guys need to relax.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> No actually, it's plain, unadulterated fact. *Fact*.


HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW IS THAT A FACT?? So I can come in and play good in the preseason? Wow.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

MCCpride said:


> it sounds like a war lol. You guys need to relax.


Forget that, there is just some things I can't take.


----------



## MCCpride (Jun 14, 2005)

casebeck22 said:


> Forget that, there is just some things I can't take.


It's ok. If the Pistons are winning the beat writer doesn't have to worry about other teams.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

casebeck22 said:


> Amen. Have any of you that don't know what your talking about heard of J. O'Neal? Good logic.


JO's numbers in his first two years were almost 3 times as good as Darko's. And O'Neal was picked 17th, Darko 2nd. Nice try on the comparison, but it just further proves that Darko's a bust so far.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

socco said:


> JO's numbers in his first two years were almost 3 times as good as Darko's. And O'Neal was picked 17th, Darko 2nd. Nice try on the comparison, but it just further proves that Darko's a bust so far.


No. What team was JO on?? What team IS Darko on??


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

MCCpride said:


> It's ok. If the Pistons are winning the beat writer doesn't have to worry about other teams.


Thanks man. I need someone to calm me down right now.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

socco said:


> JO's numbers in his first two years were almost 3 times as good as Darko's. And O'Neal was picked 17th, Darko 2nd. Nice try on the comparison, but it just further proves that Darko's a bust so far.


It isn't that horrible if you look at the stats per 48 minutes. JO wouldn't have gotten any more PT coming out of high school if he was playing for Detroit under Darko's conditions. Darko would be a bust right now if he was expected to produce on the court and lead the team like LBJ and Melo were but that isn't the case. Joe Dumars said 3 to 4 years before he could help the team win, well it's been 2 years now. Did he do any worse then Joe Dumars said he was going to? No he didn't becuase he didn't play just like Joe Dumars said he wouldn't. That's not a bust. If Darko is averaging 1.8 points per game in 5 years then you have yourself a bust.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

kamego said:


> It isn't that horrible if you look at the stats per 48 minutes. JO wouldn't have gotten any more PT coming out of high school if he was playing for Detroit under Darko's conditions. Darko would be a bust right now if he was expected to produce on the court and lead the team like LBJ and Melo were but that isn't the case. Joe Dumars said 3 to 4 years  before he could help the team win, well it's been 2 years now. Did he do any worse then Joe Dumars said he was going to? No he didn't becuase he didn't play just like Joe Dumars said he wouldn't. That's not a bust. If Darko is averaging 1.8 points per game in 5 years then you have yourself a bust.


There ya go.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

casebeck22 said:


> No. What team was JO on?? What team IS Darko on??


So? Darko still hasn't done jack ****. How can you call him anything other than a bust when he's been as horrible as he has been? Answer that.


You guys really think Dumars expected him to do this little? I'll say it again, there's some middle ground between absolutely horrendous and an every day contributor.


----------



## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

kamego said:


> It isn't that horrible if you look at the stats per 48 minutes. JO wouldn't have gotten any more PT coming out of high school if he was playing for Detroit under Darko's conditions. Darko would be a bust right now if he was expected to produce on the court and lead the team like LBJ and Melo were but that isn't the case. Joe Dumars said 3 to 4 years before he could help the team win, well it's been 2 years now. Did he do any worse then Joe Dumars said he was going to? No he didn't becuase he didn't play just like Joe Dumars said he wouldn't. That's not a bust. If Darko is averaging 1.8 points per game in 5 years then you have yourself a bust.


Such a low expectations for a second pick.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

socco said:


> So? Darko still hasn't done jack ****. How can you call him anything other than a bust when he's been as horrible as he has been? Answer that.
> 
> 
> You guys really think Dumars expected him to do this little? I'll say it again, there's some middle ground between absolutely horrendous and an every day contributor.


Yes, I think Joe Dumars got what he expected out of Darko the first 2 years. I just think people outside of th team blow it up into more then it is. If JoeD said it takes 4 years I will stop him every second of all 4 years.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

DWadeistheTruth said:


> Such a low expectations for a second pick.


That's not a horrible thing. Sometimes pressure gets to people and if there pressure isn't there, you dont have to worry about the guy cracking. Ryan Leaf would be the perfect example of that.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

kamego said:


> Yes, I think Joe Dumars got what he expected out of Darko the first 2 years.


Well, then I think you're crazy.


----------



## zeebneeb (Mar 5, 2004)

socco said:


> JO's numbers in his first two years were almost 3 times as good as Darko's. And O'Neal was picked 17th, Darko 2nd. Nice try on the comparison, but it just further proves that Darko's a bust so far.


And he also played twice as many minutes.

What point are you trying to make here? That your OPINION is that Darko is a bust, based on a GRAND TOTAL OF 413MINUTES. That's LESS THEN 10 GAMES OWRTH OF MINUTES IN THREE YEARS.

Nice try. You just hate Darko, and have grown accustomed to doing so, and his success in the pre-season is a threat to your stance.


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

zeebneeb said:


> What point are you trying to make here? That your OPINION is that Darko is a bust, based on a GRAND TOTAL OF 413MINUTES. That's LESS THEN 10 GAMES OWRTH OF MINUTES IN THREE YEARS.


YES. That's exactly the point I'm making (other than the fact that he's played 2 years, not 3). See how silly it is trying to argue against that. I never said it means much, but it is what it is.



zeebneeb said:


> Nice try. You just hate Darko, and have grown accustomed to doing so, and his success in the pre-season is a threat to your stance.


I really don't give a **** about Darko, sorry to disappoint.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

socco said:


> Well, then I think you're crazy.


Well you obviously don't know your facts. So I could understand how someone so oblivious might think that.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

socco said:


> So? Darko still hasn't done jack ****. How can you call him anything other than a bust when he's been as horrible as he has been? Answer that.
> 
> 
> You guys really think Dumars expected him to do this little? I'll say it again, there's some middle ground between absolutely horrendous and an every day contributor.


He is not a bust because he has not been expected to do anything yet. He is 20. Wow. What did you not understand about the idea he was not supposed to contribute for 3 to 4 years?


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

kamego said:


> Wow. So was Carson Palmer a bust becaues he didn't play in a game for Cincy his first year? How about Jermaine O'Neal since he did nothing his first 3 years?


And you left out the other 95% of busts that don't do jack because...? Right, because it clearly doesn't help your argument. 



> You can't label someone a bust because they are developing. Ryan Leaf is a bust because his career is over and he never did anything with it. Labeling a 20 year old, who was said to need 3 to 4 years to develop at the start, a bust is a mistake. It justs a big red flag that says you don't care what he does because you don't like him.


Why would I not like Darko? Get over it, he has been a bust and there's nothing you can do about it.



> Your missing using the word bust here and if you think I am wrong it doesn't matter. This thread is becoming a waste of time because people don't care what Darko does. He could save the world from aliens trying to take over and people would still say, well Carmelo, Bosh, or Wade would have been a better pick in 2003. yawnnn no one in Detroit cares though. Darko has two nba final apperances. More then anyone in the 2003 draft class for that fact.


Anyone who takes pride in Darko's two "Finals appearances" can't be anything but a Darko homer. Sadly this seems to be the case for you. 



> So go head respond and tear apart what I said that you don't like and I will wait 5 minutes, come back and respond again.


There's nothing that worth responding to, all you did was tell me a guy who has averaged 1.6 and 1.2 in two full NBA seasons isn't a bust. At this point in his career he is a bust. That's fact. 



> You are lacking the basic knowledge of an NBA follower.


:laugh:



> Darko was selected as a future pick. He was just 18 when the Pistons drafted him. Is there one person who has never missed a dunk? Wow, what a statement that was. You will retract your statement.


Retract my statement? List the number of NBA players that have attempted point blank dunks and been swated by an NBA rim? 



> Like I have said 1,000 times - he was drafted onto a championship team, give him time. You have NO logical reason as to why he can not develop as a player. It is completly ignorant and unlogical to call him a bust. I don't see any reason as to why you can predict that he will do nothing this season.


Where did I say he would do nothing this season, and remember to read carefully. I said he would "very likely be a bust". Maybe he won't be, but at this point in his career he has done nothing, NOTHING worthy of note. Oh right, a few good preseason games, my bad. 



> We know the rim is orange.


I have my doubts about some people...



casebeck22 said:


> HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW IS THAT A FACT?? So I can come in and play good in the preseason? Wow.


Yes, clearly we were talking about civilians, and not NBA players. How perceptive of you.


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

socco said:


> YES. That's exactly the point I'm making (other than the fact that he's played 2 years, not 3). See how silly it is trying to argue against that. I never said it means much, but it is what it is.
> 
> 
> I really don't give a **** about Darko, sorry to disappoint.


You must feel something towards Darko, for the simple fact that you rehashed the same content of your intial post over and over and then over again...

Now, before the recent mild success of Darko, overseas and in the preseason, people were begging him to show them any resemblance of progression. So he finally does against a notch below NBA talent, overseas. Then he continues his admirable energy/intensity and production in leading the NBA in blocks per. game in preseason yet he hasn't played past 25 minutes yet. Outside of stats, if you watched him in action (silly me, why would you bother or worry about Darko) then you would see that he looks like he belongs out on the court with the veterans. Darko isn't winded after a minute playing time nor is he playing timid. The past two seasons he would shy away from contact by fading away or attempting finger rolls down low. Now he is taking it up strong and getting fouled (10-12 FT against Minny in 21min) and has grown into an adequate rebounder (judging by his overseas and preseason play) though he still gets his hands on more loose balls than he can grab (should grab). If anything, just because of his defense and size he can easily be a starter for 30% of the teams in this league (safe estimation).


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

bananas said:


> You must feel something towards Darko, for the simple fact that you rehashed the same content of your intial post over and over and then over again...
> 
> Now, before the recent mild success of Darko, overseas and in the preseason, people were begging him to show them any resemblance of progression. So he finally does against a notch below NBA talent, overseas. Then he continues his admirable energy/intensity and production in leading the NBA in blocks per. game in preseason yet he hasn't played past 25 minutes yet. Outside of stats, if you watched him in action (silly me, why would you bother or worry about Darko) then you would see that he looks like he belongs out on the court with the veterans. Darko isn't winded after a minute playing time nor is he playing timid. The past two seasons he would shy away from contact by fading away or attempting finger rolls down low. Now he is taking it up strong and getting fouled (10-12 FT against Minny in 21min) and has grown into an adequate rebounder (judging by his overseas and preseason play) though he still gets his hands on more loose balls than he can grab (should grab). If anything, just because of his defense and size he can easily be a starter for 30% of the teams in this league (safe estimation).


Let's hope Darko is better than just good enough to be a starter for *30%* of the teams in the NBA. After all, he was the 2nd overall pick in a draft that included LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Dwayne Wade.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> Let's hope Darko is better than just good enough to be a starter for *30%* of the teams in the NBA. After all, he was the 2nd overall pick in a draft that included LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Dwayne Wade.


Give me a break. He is also the youngest out of all of them, came from another country, and came to the best team out of all of them. I am convinced that if you can not see the least bit of improvement and/or talent out of Darko then you are simply blind.


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

EHL said:


> Where did I say he would do nothing this season, and remember to read carefully. I said he would "very likely be a bust". Maybe he won't be, but at this point in his career he has done nothing, NOTHING worthy of note. Oh right, a few good preseason games, my bad.


Oh my! What a bold statement on your part, way to step outside the box and predict such a unheard notion regarding Darko. Tell us something we haven't heard yet.



> There's nothing that worth responding to, all you did was tell me a guy who has averaged 1.6 and 1.2 in two full NBA seasons isn't a bust. At this point in his career he is a bust. That's fact.


Interesting, actually no not really same old senseless debate. By your logic any player that hasn't gotten playing time is a bust. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? How about work in progress until AT THE LEAST consistent minutes (10 minutes per. Darko would be happy with that) for even ONE SEASON?

games played / games started / minutes per game
04-05 Det 37 / 2 / 6.9
03-04 Det 34 / 0 / 4.7

The comparison to Skita are beyond laughable. They went head to head Sunday for a good ten minutes of the game. Skita did zero, wait he hit one outside shot, he's on his way to Dirk-status. Darko on the other hand was blocking shots, grabbing boards, getting to the line and being an overall efficient big man. And Skita has been in the league for 3 seasons and is 22, not to forget that he actually got a chance to do something/regular , consistent minutes.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

casebeck22 said:


> Give me a break. He is also the youngest out of all of them, came from another country, and came to the best team out of all of them.


Darko is 6 months younger than LeBron James, who has been 100 times the player Darko has ever been. He's barely one year younger than Carmelo Anthony, who is also 100 times the player Darko has ever been. Yeah, Wade is quite a bit older (but again, he's 100 times better than Darko). And please, don't give me that "he came from another country" BS. 



> I am convinced that if you can not see the least bit of improvement and/or talent out of Darko then you are simply blind.


The only person that is blind is the one that can't see Darko has been one of the worst 2nd picks in NBA history. And that's a fact.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

Quote:
You are lacking the basic knowledge of an NBA follower. <---True, it is rediculous that you can't see it is not even Darko's time yet to help the team win. We have known that from day one. I guess you missed that part.


Quote:
Darko was selected as a future pick. He was just 18 when the Pistons drafted him. Is there one person who has never missed a dunk? Wow, what a statement that was. You will retract your statement. 

Retract my statement? List the number of NBA players that have attempted point blank dunks and been swated by an NBA rim? <-----I have seen Ben Wallace do it more than 10 times. Do you want to argue that he is a bust to?


Quote:
Like I have said 1,000 times - he was drafted onto a championship team, give him time. You have NO logical reason as to why he can not develop as a player. It is completly ignorant and unlogical to call him a bust. I don't see any reason as to why you can predict that he will do nothing this season. 


Where did I say he would do nothing this season, and remember to read carefully. I said he would "very likely be a bust". Maybe he won't be, but at this point in his career he has done nothing, NOTHING worthy of note. Oh right, a few good preseason games, my bad. <---It is your bad, he is 20. Like I said, A FUTURE PICK.


Quote:
We know the rim is orange. 


I have my doubts about some people...<---Funny guy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by casebeck22 
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW IS THAT A FACT?? So I can come in and play good in the preseason? Wow. 

Yes, clearly we were talking about civilians, and not NBA players. How perceptive of you. <---You did say anyone. Civilian or not. I didn't see Day dominating for the Pistons this preseason which is why he was cut. To say anyone(even in the NBA) can do good in the preseason is crazy.


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

EHL said:


> Let's hope Darko is better than just good enough to be a starter for *30%* of the teams in the NBA. After all, he was the 2nd overall pick in a draft that included LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Dwayne Wade.


Right now, he could easily start for 30% of the teams in the NBA and as I stated that is a safe estimation. Tell me again, why are we comparing him to LeBron, Melo and Wade? Did Darko have the same opportunities as any of those three (starting on a team, let alone consistent 10-15 minutes). Did any of them come from overseas and required game rules adjustments as well as lifestyle changes (Darko was 18 with no family here)? Do any of them play PF/C?

It has already been established a TRILLION times, Detroit passed up on some impressive young players. Though as a Piston fan, I have learned to trust Joe D, he hasn't let me down yet-- back to back finals appearances. Can't complain at all, it appears that is the one thing people can 'hate-on' against the Pistons is Darko so they are squeezing the life out of the one facet of this franchise that is in question. Now that the questions are finally answered, these same critical persons are sticking to their same argument that never really held any ground for Detroit fans. Dumars told us from day one that Milicic is a big time project but the payoff would be unbelievable. Joe D. has not wavered from his statements. We were all upset that Darko got basically ZERO PT for two straight seasons under LB. That is what the complaining was about, not towards Darko, it was directed at the coaching staff.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> Darko is 6 months younger than LeBron James, who has been 100 times the player Darko has ever been. He's barely one year younger than Carmelo Anthony, who is also 100 times the player Darko has ever been. Yeah, Wade is quite a bit older (but again, he's 100 times better than Darko). And please, don't give me that "he came from another country" BS.
> 
> 
> 
> The only person that is blind is the one that can't see Darko has been one of the worst 2nd picks in NBA history. And that's a fact.


That confirms the blindness. He is a future pick, I guess you don't see that. Lebron is arguably the best player in the league so I don't know why you would compare Darko to him right now. We could have taken Melo, he wouldn't have started. We could have done the same with Wade also. Darko went to the best of any of the teams and what don't you get about what Joe D said, "We don't expect him to contribute for the next 3 or 4 years. On my count this is the 3rd year and we are seeing improvement.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

bananas said:


> Oh my! What a bold statement on your part, way to step outside the box and predict such a unheard notion regarding Darko. Tell us something we haven't heard yet.


Apparently it has to be repeated, as the homers come out in full force when Dabust gets rightfully criticized. In case you forgot: 1.6/1.2/0.2/29.8%FG.



> Interesting, actually no not really same old senseless debate. By your logic any player that hasn't gotten playing time is a bust.


No, you're a bust if you can't:

1) Get any PT in two full NBA regular seasons and postseasons.
2) Do a damn thing with his career in the SPL or preseason.
3) Clear the rim for a dunk. 



> What happened to innocent until proven guilty?


He's not being indicted for murder. He's just a bust. 



> How about work in progress until AT THE LEAST consistent minutes (10 minutes per. Darko would be happy with that) for even ONE SEASON?


Perhaps. Maybe he will produce when he gets consistent minutes. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that he has done nothing in two NBA seasons. Was a 2nd overall pick. And therefore he has been a bust. 



> games played / games started / minutes per game
> 04-05 Det 37 / 2 / 6.9
> 03-04 Det 34 / 0 / 4.7
> 
> The comparison to Skita are beyond laughable. They went head to head Sunday for a good ten minutes of the game. Skita did zero, wait he hit one outside shot, he's on his way to Dirk-status. Darko on the other hand was blocking shots, grabbing boards, getting to the line and being an overall efficient big man. And Skita has been in the league for 3 seasons and is 22, not to forget that he actually got a chance to do something/regular , consistent minutes.


Skita has had a better NBA career than Darko so far. Sad but true. Darko has lit up a portion of one preseason. Jump for joy Pistons fans!!!!


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

bananas said:


> *Right now, he could easily start for 30% of the teams in the NBA and as I stated that is a safe estimation. Tell me again, why are we comparing him to LeBron, Melo and Wade? Did Darko have the same opportunities as any of those three (starting on a team, let alone consistent 10-15 minutes). Did any of them come from overseas and required game rules adjustments as well as lifestyle changes (Darko was 18 with no family here)? Do any of them play PF/C?*


Thats right also. Darko is taking a different road than all of them. I don't get why you don't see that.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> No, you're a bust if you can't:
> 
> 1) Get any PT in two full NBA regular seasons and postseasons.
> 2) Do a damn thing with his career in the SPL or preseason.
> ...


I am still waiting to hear why you don't understand what a 3 to 4 year project is. You have no backup for that. It is what it is.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

bananas said:


> Right now, he could easily start for 30% of the teams in the NBA and as I stated that is a safe estimation. Tell me again, why are we comparing him to LeBron, Melo and Wade? Did Darko have the same opportunities as any of those three (starting on a team, let alone consistent 10-15 minutes). Did any of them come from overseas and required game rules adjustments as well as lifestyle changes (Darko was 18 with no family here)? Do any of them play PF/C?
> 
> It has already been established a TRILLION times, Detroit passed up on some impressive young players. Though as a Piston fan, I have learned to trust Joe D, he hasn't let me down yet-- back to back finals appearances. Can't complain at all, it appears that is the one thing people can 'hate-on' against the Pistons is Darko so they are squeezing the life out of the one facet of this franchise that is in question. Now that the questions are finally answered, these same critical persons are sticking to their same argument that never really held any ground for Detroit fans. Dumars told us from day one that Milicic is a big time project but the payoff would be unbelievable. Joe D. has not wavered from his statements. We were all upset that Darko got basically ZERO PT for two straight seasons under LB. That is what the complaining was about, not towards Darko, it was directed at the coaching staff.


You can hope and pray all you want he's the next Jermaine O'Neal. So far, there's NO reason to believe he will be. Maybe you'll end up being right, but it won't be because you "knew" you'd be right. 



casebeck22 said:


> That confirms the blindness. He is a future pick, I guess you don't see that. Lebron is arguably the best player in the league so I don't know why you would compare Darko to him right now.


You're the one telling me that because Darko was "younger" than Melo and LeBron that his far FAR lesser impact on the game was understandable. 



> We could have taken Melo, he wouldn't have started. We could have done the same with Wade also. Darko went to the best of any of the teams and what don't you get about what Joe D said, "We don't expect him to contribute for the next 3 or 4 years. On my count this is the 3rd year and we are seeing improvement.


What do you expect Dumars to say, "He's a bust, EHL was right"? Come on now. 



> I have seen Ben Wallace do it more than 10 times. Do you want to argue that he is a bust to?


Read carefully. You have never seen Ben Wallace get _rejected by an NBA rim at point blank range with no one guarding him_. 



> It is your bad, he is 20. Like I said, A FUTURE PICK.


If you're going to purposefully avoid questions you can't answer, please list said disclaimer before posting. 



> You did say anyone.


I also thought you could read critically. Guess not. 



> Civilian or not. I didn't see Day dominating for the Pistons this preseason which is why he was cut. To say anyone(even in the NBA) can do good in the preseason is crazy.


No, it isn't. Even Tierre Brown does well in the preseason. And he's garbage. 



> I am still waiting to hear why you don't understand what a 3 to 4 year project is. You have no backup for that. It is what it is.


:laugh: No response my butt. Here's your response: His first two years have been a complete disaster. DISASTER. You're banking on his next "1-2" to be a complete 180 from his previous two seasons. Good luck.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> You can hope and pray all you want he's the next Jermaine O'Neal. So far, there's NO reason to believe he will be. Maybe you'll end up being right, but it won't be because you "knew" you'd be right. <---I didn't say that I just said you are insane for labeling him a bust when even the manager of the team has not expected him to perform yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 <---You don't understand what a future pick is?



*Bottom line is you don't understand basic logic. Dumars has stuck to his word the whole time. Darko is a future pick.B]*


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

casebeck22 said:


> He is not a bust because he has not been expected to do anything yet. He is 20. Wow. What did you not understand about the idea he was not supposed to contribute for 3 to 4 years?


There's a big difference between being a solid every day contributor and being less than worthless. Darko was expected to be better than what he has been, yet still wasn't expected to be a solid member of the rotation. Very simple to understand.




bananas said:


> You must feel something towards Darko, for the simple fact that you rehashed the same content of your intial post over and over and then over again...
> 
> Now, before the recent mild success of Darko, overseas and in the preseason, people were begging him to show them any resemblance of progression. So he finally does against a notch below NBA talent, overseas. Then he continues his admirable energy/intensity and production in leading the NBA in blocks per. game in preseason yet he hasn't played past 25 minutes yet. Outside of stats, if you watched him in action (silly me, why would you bother or worry about Darko) then you would see that he looks like he belongs out on the court with the veterans. Darko isn't winded after a minute playing time nor is he playing timid. The past two seasons he would shy away from contact by fading away or attempting finger rolls down low. Now he is taking it up strong and getting fouled (10-12 FT against Minny in 21min) and has grown into an adequate rebounder (judging by his overseas and preseason play) though he still gets his hands on more loose balls than he can grab (should grab). If anything, just because of his defense and size he can easily be a starter for 30% of the teams in this league (safe estimation).


Frankly I don't care about the preseason, other than injuries. If Darko has progressed well, great, good for Darko and the Pistons. Does that have anything to do with what he's done in the NBA though? No. You can talk him up all you want, that all means very little to me, simply because I don't care about Darko. I've simply stated that to this point in his career (which isn't much, yet isn't nothing) he has not lived up to expectations (even considering how low his expectations were). I've never said that I'll hold that against him, I've never said it won't changed, I've just simply stated what he's done, that being nothing.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

casebeck22 said:


> <---You don't understand what a future pick is?


You don't understand anything I've posted if you are honestly asking me this question. Yes, for the record, I understand perfectly what a "future pick" is. 



> Bottom line is you don't understand basic logic.


:laugh:


----------



## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

EHL said:


> Let's hope Darko is better than just good enough to be a starter for *30%* of the teams in the NBA. After all, he was the 2nd overall pick in a draft that included LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Dwayne Wade.


Forgot about Bosh.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ DWT with the nice factoid! Thanks.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL-If all you can do is laugh that isin't showing me much. If you understand what a future pick is, what is the problem? If you understand that then you would know that is what Darko is and it is impossible to label him a bust.

socco-How do you know how good he was supposed to be his first two years? I'd like to know.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

casebeck22 said:


> EHL-If all you can do is laugh that isin't showing me much. If you understand what a future pick is, what is the problem? If you understand that then you would know that is what Darko is and it is impossible to label him a bust.


I laugh because I can't believe someone is trying to tell me that 1.6 and 1.2 on 29.8%FG in two NBA regular seasons and postseasons isn't a bust when that player was #2 overall. Jermaine O'Neal was able to do a lot more than that his first two seasons. And he was on loaded Blazer teams during that time.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> I laugh because I can't believe someone is trying to tell me that 1.6 and 1.2 on 29.8%FG in two NBA regular seasons and postseasons isn't a bust when that player was #2 overall. Jermaine O'Neal was able to do a lot more than that his first two seasons. And he was on loaded Blazer teams during that time.


On one hand you say you understand you know what a future pick is and then you post this. Darko couldn have averaged 0, 0, and 0. He is a future pick. A bust should be a lable after someone has lost failed to meet their expectations. But, since Joe D. didn't expect anything from Darko, that can not be possible can it?


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

casebeck22 said:


> socco-How do you know how good he was supposed to be his first two years? I'd like to know.


I just took a wild guess. In fact I hadn't even heard of Darko Milicic before I saw this thread, everything I've said I made up right on the spot. :|


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

casebeck22 said:


> On one hand you say you understand you know what a future pick is and then you post this. Darko couldn have averaged 0, 0, and 0. He is a future pick.


You don't understand what the purpose of a future pick is then. The purpose of that future pick is to gradually get better, and then get good enough to be a superstar. You claim he could have averaged 0, 0, and 0. This shows a complete lack of understanding of what a future pick is. 



> A bust should be a lable after someone has lost failed to meet their expectations. But, since Joe D. didn't expect anything from Darko, that can not be possible can it?


Who knows what Joe D. expects besides the company line he takes for a walk.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

EHL said:


> You don't understand what the purpose of a future pick is then. The purpose of that future pick is to gradually get better, and then get good enough to be a superstar. You claim he could have averaged 0, 0, and 0. This shows a complete lack of understanding of what a future pick is.
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows what Joe D. expects besides the company line he takes for a walk.


I don't get what your saying?


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

kamego said:


> You've been saying the same thing over and over again for 100 posts. Having fun yet? :cheers:


Right..

Just reiterating my point any time some one quotes me or questions my reporting. :cheers:


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

A star? No.....A decent player? Yes


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

Round and round we go



EHL said:


> Apparently it has to be repeated, as the homers come out in full force when Dabust gets rightfully criticized. In case you forgot: 1.6/1.2/0.2/29.8%FG.


I already retorted your point about his career stats more than one time, if you choose to ignore basic logic/reasoning and continue the same argument that he got hung on one dunk in his rookie year in PRESEASON... well, that is your prerogative.



> No, you're a bust if you can't:
> 
> 1) Get any PT in two full NBA regular seasons and postseasons.
> 2) Do a damn thing with his career in the SPL or preseason.
> 3) Clear the rim for a dunk.


Again, I have broken it down to you, from a guy that has followed this team for more than a decade. I won't bother reposting, for both of our sake, but it seems you just ignore the content of my posts and pick at certain statements that you can allow yourself to comment on. That is your prerogative.



> He's not being indicted for murder. He's just a bust.


That was an analogy towards the next sentence in my post, perhaps that went over your head. Who knows but you.



> Perhaps. Maybe he will produce when he gets consistent minutes. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that he has done nothing in two NBA seasons. Was a 2nd overall pick. And therefore he has been a bust.


And I ask you yet again, has he had the chance to do anything outside of the last minute of blowout games? Larry Brown carries a strict rotation, it didn't matter what Darko did those two seasons under Larry- he knew it and the rest of the team knew it. Dumars knew it, Larry is gone (not the only reason but one of the factors). Here are his career games played and minutes for you another time.

games played / games started / minutes per game
04-05 Det 37 / 2 / 6.9
03-04 Det 34 / 0 / 4.7

Can you see that now



> You can hope and pray all you want he's the next Jermaine O'Neal. So far, there's NO reason to believe he will be. Maybe you'll end up being right, but it won't be because you "knew" you'd be right.


Who said anything about J.O? I have higher hopes, and I will beg to the basketball gods that Darko doesn't have the composure of O'Neal. As for the second portion of the quote, the same goes to you and your stand on Milicic. The difference is I have given in depth reasoning about the situation Darko has been in. I see why he has not 'blown up' , and it is mindboggling why others still don't get it.

~~~~

In conclusion, I will ask you have you watched Darko play this preseason? My educated guess would be, no. So can you, EHL, actually tell how far along Darko has progressed since his days of bricking dunks? No. Besides the blocked shots stats, which is impressive in itself, can you tell how well Darko has played defensively without seeing a game? No, you really can't. I could go on but I'll do us all a favor and cut this short. Stop downplaying preseason, have you watched any preseason games yet? The starters on teams are busting their butts out there and it has been very intense from the games that I have seen on par with a regular season game. This isn't the summerleagues, these are all NBA talent players and half of them are fighting for a roster/rotation spot. Time is running out for the Darko bashing, better get your licks in now.



> Skita has had a better NBA career than Darko so far. Sad but true. Darko has lit up a portion of one preseason. Jump for joy Pistons fans!!!!


I appreciate that but I am more happy about back to back finals appearances-- can you say the same about your favorite team? Thanks, I am quite happy with Milicic. He has a coach that is giving him responsibilities-- that is the intial thing that Flip said coming here regarding Darko. You have to give a youngster responsibilities and see what he does with that. In addition, Flip is allowing Darko to play his game... 'lo and behold the kid is looking like he belongs in the rotation of a championship contending team.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

bananas said:


> Round and round we go
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good job with your posting. He just don't understand I guess. Take it easy.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

My God. 11 pages arguing over what the word bust means.

EHL, Socco... call Darko whatever you want. If you want to call him a bust based on 2 years go ahead. 

You can say whatever you want about is first 2 seasons.

What you CAN'T say, is he hasn't looked very impressive this preseason. A lot of players can put up numbers in preseason, but not everybody can actually LOOK like a good player doing it. If you watch Darko play he looks like a good player. If you can honestly say you've watched him play recently and came away unimpressed- then you simply are a hater.

I doubt he'll be considered a star by the end of this year. But I bet he'll be considered a top 10 center.


----------



## DaBigTicketKG21 (Apr 27, 2003)

Wow...Darko has so many people paying attention to him. He hasnt done anything in the league and he has so many fans and haters. I hope Darko proves the haters wrong this year.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

casebeck22 said:


> I don't get what your saying?


It's pretty simple; you can't build a future out of nothing. There's no such thing as building from 0, 0, and 0 and then becoming a superstar. It doesn't happen, it's impossible. It's like saying you want your company to grow in 3-4 years and not caring a wit what happens in those first two years. 



> I already retorted your point about his career stats more than one time, if you choose to ignore basic logic/reasoning and continue the same argument that he got hung on one dunk in his rookie year in PRESEASON... well, that is your prerogative.


You didn't retort it with anything worthy of note, hence the reason it was relisted again. They're pathetic numbers however you slice it. Pathetic. That's fact. Deal with it.



> Again, I have broken it down to you, from a guy that has followed this team for more than a decade. I won't bother reposting, for both of our sake, but it seems you just ignore the content of my posts and pick at certain statements that you can allow yourself to comment on. That is your prerogative.


Then restate your argument, because again, I didn't see anything worthy of note. 



> That was an analogy towards the next sentence in my post, perhaps that went over your head. Who knows but you.


I hate to be the one to break it to you, but nothing you said in your proceeding sentences from that statement was an analogy, or if it was, it was extremely poorly construed. 



> And I ask you yet again, has he had the chance to do anything outside of the last minute of blowout games? Larry Brown carries a strict rotation, it didn't matter what Darko did those two seasons under Larry- he knew it and the rest of the team knew it. Dumars knew it, Larry is gone (not the only reason but one of the factors). Here are his career games played and minutes for you another time.
> 
> games played / games started / minutes per game
> 04-05 Det 37 / 2 / 6.9
> ...


Ah yes, the old "Larry Brown held him back" junk. Look, if the kid was any damn good he would have broken into the rotation and gotten more minutes than he did. He didn't look AT ALL impressive even when he did get a little bit of playing time. He didn't even play active defense, which is incredibly easy to do in those limited minutes. 

Face it, the only thing you've got going for your argument is that one of the best coaches in history didn't play Darko more because.....Larry Brown doesn't know what talent is!!! 



> Who said anything about J.O? I have higher hopes, and I will beg to the basketball gods that Darko doesn't have the composure of O'Neal.


I'd hope and pray Darko is half the player Jermaine O'Neal is. 



> As for the second portion of the quote, the same goes to you and your stand on Milicic. The difference is I have given in depth reasoning about the situation Darko has been in. I see why he has not 'blown up' , and it is mindboggling why others still don't get it.


It's not really mind boggling, your reasoning is just extremely poor. 1) One of the greatest coaches of all time didn't want to play him. 2) His play lacked any sort of what basketball enthusiasts would call "potential" (i.e. he simply sucked). 3) He got rejected by a rim. These are all facts you continue to refuse to listen to because you'd rather cling to the hope that the reason Darko hasn't shown _anything_ in his career is that he hasn't gotten any PT. When in fact he's just not that good. 



> In conclusion, I will ask you have you watched Darko play this preseason? My educated guess would be, no. So can you, EHL, actually tell how far along Darko has progressed since his days of bricking dunks? No.


Sure I can tell, I saw him suck it up until the last game of the year for him last season. Anyone can play well in preseason, ask Tierre Brown. He lights up preseason with 20/6 games and sucks horribly in the regular season. No one here is under the illusion that Tierre Brown will sustain those numbers during the regular season. But apparently, a few delusional Pistons fans believe his preseason performances give you an accurate picture of how he'll perform in the regular season. Hate to break it to you, but no. They give you minor incite at best, mostly academic. 



> Besides the blocked shots stats, which is impressive in itself, can you tell how well Darko has played defensively without seeing a game? No, you really can't. I could go on but I'll do us all a favor and cut this short.


Thank god, for a second there I thought you were trying to tell me that preseason is worth a damn. Oh, wait, you were. :laugh: 



> Stop downplaying preseason, have you watched any preseason games yet? The starters on teams are busting their butts out there and it has been very intense from the games that I have seen on par with a regular season game.


Get over it, preseason is practically meaningless. *Meaningless*. This is a fact, accepted by all smart basketball fans. There is very little you can take from preseason. Please accept this fact and move on. 



> This isn't the summerleagues, these are all NBA talent players and half of them are fighting for a roster/rotation spot. Time is running out for the Darko bashing, better get your licks in now.


This should be an interesting season to say the least.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I forgot this part...



> I appreciate that but I am more happy about back to back finals appearances-- can you say the same about your favorite team? Thanks, I am quite happy with Milicic.


Yes, my favorite team has won 14 NBA titles and gone to 27 NBA Finals. Next. 



> He has a coach that is giving him responsibilities-- that is the intial thing that Flip said coming here regarding Darko. You have to give a youngster responsibilities and see what he does with that. In addition, Flip is allowing Darko to play his game... 'lo and behold the kid is looking like he belongs in the rotation of a championship contending team.


"Play his game"? Boy oh boy, what a season this is going to be.


----------



## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

casebeck22 said:


> On one hand you say you understand you know what a future pick is and then you post this. Darko couldn have averaged 0, 0, and 0. He is a future pick. A bust should be a lable after someone has lost failed to meet their expectations. *But, since Joe D. didn't expect anything from Darko, * that can not be possible can it?


I find that hard to believe. I think you will never waste a second pick, on someone that will not contribute anything at all. I think Joe D is simply not saying what is up, cause he totally mess up. How could you expect your second pick to be the biggest dud, in the History of the NBA. I don't get your reasoning. That is like George Bush trying to deflect attention away, by simply not admitting his mistakes, but you know the idiot realizes he has made some serious ones. If you don't hold Joe D responsible for them, the man will simply have the right to mess up, without noone questioning his moves, you guys are being to nice to Joe D.


----------



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

What the Pistons fans fail to mention and the idio... I mean... others fail to take into consideration is that Joe Dumars drafted Darko Milicic, yes, expecting more than he has produced thus far. However, you also have to take into consideration the following:

1. The opportunity to trade for Rasheed Wallace fell into Joe Dumars' lap.
2. A proven all-star caliber player coming off of injury named McDyess fell into Joe Dumars' lap.

You don't look a gift horse in the mouth. When you have two all-stars dropped into your lap, it is obviously going to hurt anybody already on the team playing the same position. Do you expect a 19 year old kid to break into any rotation already composed of THREE ALL STARS? You're already bringing a god damn all star off of the bench, do you expect an unproven 19 year old to break into that playing time, no matter what he shows on the practice floor?

Seriously, you're putting up things saying that a team in a race for an NBA Title should put an unproven kid in over all stars, albeit one of them was recouping from an injury, he was still as good as many starters in the league and very consistent. Darko Milicic, a youngsters, can not be expected to break through that.

Now, you could say that if the Pistons saw so much in Darko they wouldn't have bothered with Rasheed and McDyess, right? WRONG. If the Pistons were a borderline playoff team, I would agree with you, because they'd be looking to get him PT and work towards building a future around him. However, the Pistons, for the past two seasons, were in WIN NOW mode. They couldn't afford to deal with the growing pains ANY DRAFT PICK goes through. They were in the hunt for championships, not playoff spots.

Now, I will agree with you that we expected more PT and more numbers out of Darko, however it stands to reason that when Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess fall into your rotation, you can't complain about it. We (Pistons fans) are content with the continuing development of Darko and the fact that it may take an extra year or year and a half for him to become what he will be if it means that we get to win a championship and come within five minutes of winning another.

Now, you talk about "any time the Pistons play him." You mentioned that he showed nothing every time out. However, he did get two starts last season and did average 12.5p/4.0r/2.0b in those two games. These statistics are far from superstar quality, but you keep in mind that he was playing alongside McDyess/Arroyo/Hamilton/Prince in these four games (The Wallaces and Billups were given the nights off). He was playing with the number three option in the offense, and two former all stars so his point production couldn't be expected to be top-notch. We've already discussed that his rebounding is a work-in-progress (okay, he has stones for hands) and that point is conceded. However, it does show that given playing time he can put up some okay numbers, and that was after a season of sitting cold and at the age of 19. 

I expect that any time they give him 30 minutes this season we'll see numbers along the lines of 15p/6r/2.5b. This is based on the fact that you can expect improvement with experience and regular playing time, mind you it isn't a guarentee and it is merely what I feel after watching the way that he has moved around the basket and the fact that he has shown great enthusiasm towards playing with his back to the basket underneath thus far in the preseason and in the international games I watched.

Darko Milicic is a work in progress, but saying that he can't amount to anything based on his admittedly disappointing career numbers thus far shows that you haven't watched enough of him. He has very good lateral movement, his jumper falls when he gets it off (although he has a slow trigger which I do not like), his ability to block shots is not a surprise at all considering his *7'8 wingspan*, and his defense is coming along at a moderate pace.

Confidence in yourself also goes a long way. This can be seen in any sport (in football I could use the example of Tommy Maddox, the year he came in from being the best player in the XFL, in baseball there is Brandon Inge who has turned into a good hitter ever since he moved to a position he would start at, in running there is the legendary Steve Prefontaine who following his loss in the Olympics nearly fell apart in every race, but one victory and he was back on top) as mental state is very important. Darko Milicic is no exception to this rule.

Frankly, we can agree to disagree, but I see most of your arguments as to why Darko Milicic will amount to nothing as faulty myself. I won't say he is going to be a superstar, but I think he'll make an all-star team or two and he'll be a very good starting center in the NBA.


-Chris.


----------



## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

EHL said:


> I laugh because I can't believe someone is trying to tell me that 1.6 and 1.2 on 29.8%FG in two NBA regular seasons and postseasons isn't a bust when that player was #2 overall. Jermaine O'Neal was able to do a lot more than that his first two seasons. And he was on loaded Blazer teams during that time.


Ok let me say something. How many minutes was he given? As you can see when you draft high it usually means your team sucked the previous year. This was totally different. Darko was not given a chance to prove anything in the last two years. You are just as bad as the people you are argueing with. Darko was not able to afford the time like other high picks because he went to a championship team. All of the picks in the top 5 had a chance at minutes the first couple of years because of how bad thier team was. The reason why alot of people bring up Oneil as an example because he went through alot like Darko did getting drafted by a team that was championship calibur team. Lets not forget that Darko had Brown as a coach there is no wonder why did not get much playing time. If you want further proof how many minutes rookie players get from Brown just look at the Olympics and how much minutes the rookies got. How can you honestly say that Darko is a bust or will be when he was only given the limited minutes he has gotten?


----------



## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

EHL said:


> You don't understand what the purpose of a future pick is then. The purpose of that future pick is to gradually get better, and then get good enough to be a superstar. You claim he could have averaged 0, 0, and 0. This shows a complete lack of understanding of what a future pick is.
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows what Joe D. expects besides the company line he takes for a walk.


 He was not in a place to succeed because he did not get the minutes to improve like every other top prospects have gotten. Even Rasheed mentioned this last year that you need time on the court to improve and was not given that. This year so far he has and he shown that he has the potential to become a superstar whether or not he succeeds or not depends on him but all of natural talent is there.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

DWadeistheTruth said:


> I find that hard to believe. I think you will never waste a second pick, on someone that will not contribute anything at all. I think Joe D is simply not saying what is up, cause he totally mess up. How could you expect your second pick to be the biggest dud, in the History of the NBA. I don't get your reasoning. That is like George Bush trying to deflect attention away, by simply not admitting his mistakes, but you know the idiot realizes he has made some serious ones. If you don't hold Joe D responsible for them, the man will simply have the right to mess up, without noone questioning his moves, you guys are being to nice to Joe D.


Joe D. said the day he drafted him that it is a future pick. He expected nothing from Darko until his 3rd or 4th year. Why is that so hard to understand? When you have a championship team you can do things like that.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

ChrisWoj said:


> What the Pistons fans fail to mention and the idio... I mean... others fail to take into consideration is that Joe Dumars drafted Darko Milicic, yes, expecting more than he has produced thus far. However, you also have to take into consideration the following:
> 
> 1. The opportunity to trade for Rasheed Wallace fell into Joe Dumars' lap.
> 2. A proven all-star caliber player coming off of injury named McDyess fell into Joe Dumars' lap.
> ...


All of that may be the case and some of it is speculation like you coming up with his stats if he gets significant amount of minutes....

However in my opinion Darko will be a solid player in due time. But Darko will never be as good or better than Anthony and Wade who were selected after him. And obviously we know Darko isn't going to be better than James.

Just my 2cents. Obviously no matter what anybody says, time will only really tell the story. But that story started 2 seasons ago and right now Anthony and Wade are far superior in my eyes than Darko.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

23AirJordan said:


> All of that may be the case and some of it is speculation like you coming up with his stats if he gets significant amount of minutes....
> 
> However in my opinion Darko will be a solid player in due time. But _Darko will never be as good or better than Anthony and Wade who were selected after him_. And obviously we know Darko isn't going to be better than James.
> 
> Just my 2cents. Obviously no matter what anybody says, time will only really tell the story. But that story started 2 seasons ago and right now Anthony and Wade are far superior in my eyes than Darko.


How do you know that? Interesting.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

casebeck22 said:


> How do you know that? Interesting.


*Based on the last 2 seasons*. I don't have a crystal ball, and can't say Darko won't be as good or better than Wade and Anthony in the future , but all indicators point in the direction he wont be as good IMO.

If Darko proves me wrong down the road. I would be more than happy to give him his props. And freely admit it here on bbb.net. But Until that happens, I go with Anthony and Wade over Darko.


----------



## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

What a pointless 12 page argument.

If anyone can't see that Joey D drafted Darko to be ready when the Ben Wallace era was over, then there is no point debating. The idea was, contend for a championship now _and_ in the future.

Carmelo wouldn't have guaranteed that, plus they already had Tayshaun. No point in making that pick.

It is entirely possible Chris Bosh would've been in the same situation as Darko (again, if you haven't learned that Larry Brown is a wild outlier in regards to treatment of rookies, no point arguing).

Dwyane Wade wasn't anywhere near top 4 discussions pre-draft, let alone top 2, so his name shouldn't be anywhere near this thread. Hindsight is 20/20. Detroit, Denver and TDot can't read the future.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> What a pointless 12 page argument.
> 
> If anyone can't see that Joey D drafted Darko to be ready when the Ben Wallace era was over, then there is no point debating. The idea was, contend for a championship now _and_ in the future.
> 
> ...


Im not sure why people say Wade wasn't in the discussion. Wade was the 5th pick. He didnt get the mainstream hype, but that doesnt mean expert scouts didnt know how good Wade was and could be.

Thats my only disagreement with your post by the way. You make Wade sound like he was a late pick in the draft.


----------



## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> Thats my only disagreement with your post by the way. You make Wade sound like he was a late pick in the draft.


Well, he was a late riser to the 5th spot (admittedly starting around 7th) Just to clarify this point for future posters, IMO, the hype pre-draft was:

LeBron



DAYLIGHT



Darko

Carmelo




Bosh


Wade

...the rest

if you're picking up what I'm putting down.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Well, he was a late riser to the 5th spot (admittedly starting around 7th) Just to clarify this point for future posters, IMO, the hype pre-draft was:
> 
> LeBron
> 
> ...


Pretty close...I would put Carmelo ahead of Darko for hype coming in to the league. Even though Darko was picked before Carmelo.

Remember Carmelo Anthony was coming off a National Championship with Syracuse.

side note-
How old is Darko right now?


----------



## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

Just for the record: at the end of the day it is my firm belief that Joe Dumars and Darko Milicic will come out of this smelling like roses. Darko's situation (youngest player ever drafted at the time, early championship contender and stubborn coach) is unprecedented. 

Somewhere along the line we've forgotten all the quotes from Joey D about how slowly the Pistons wanted to bring Darko along. I'm positive that they have followed a plan set prior to draft night 2003, and no amount of PTI hosts insulting the involved parties will sway that...

To judge such a player after two years of junk-time basketball boggles the mind.


----------



## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> Pretty close...I would put Carmelo ahead of Darko for hype coming in to the league. Even though Darko was picked before Carmelo.
> 
> Remember Carmelo Anthony was coming off a National Championship with Syracuse.


Maybe in the mainstream media. But to draftniks (I talk primarily of nbadraft.net, who called Wade to Miami and Hinrich to Chicago days before the draft, and had Darko #2 all along) it was Darko all the way.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

23AirJordan said:


> *Based on the last 2 seasons*. I don't have a crystal ball, and can't say Darko won't be as good or better than Wade and Anthony in the future , but all indicators point in the direction he wont be as good IMO.
> 
> If Darko proves me wrong down the road. I would be more than happy to give him his props. And freely admit it here on bbb.net. But Until that happens, I go with Anthony and Wade over Darko.


You should let things unfold before you start making judgements.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

casebeck22 said:


> You should let things unfold before you start making judgements.


I thought this thread was titled darko will be a star this year.... 

Interesting how that judgement is okay with you, but not me suggesting Wade and Anthony will have the better careers.

Kind of hypocritcal of you don't you think casebeck22 ?


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Maybe in the mainstream media. But to draftniks (I talk primarily of nbadraft.net, who called Wade to Miami and Hinrich to Chicago days before the draft, and had Darko #2 all along) it was Darko all the way.


Yeah that's what I was talking about is the mainstream hype.


----------



## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> What a pointless 12 page argument.
> 
> If anyone can't see that Joey D drafted Darko to be ready when the Ben Wallace era was over, then there is no point debating. The idea was, contend for a championship now _and_ in the future.
> 
> ...


That sums it up. If your saying Darko is a bust, you don't know what a bust is and have no logical understanding. Thats it.


----------



## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> Yeah that's what I was talking about in the mainstream hype.


Well, there you go, mate. That's like believing your average n00b on basketballboards.net. Someone like Sam Smith is a simple basketball fan like you or I. What do you think gets more attention: slandering the soft target Darko Milicic or proposing that we stay the course until the timeframe that Joe Dumars clearly set out for his NBA blossoming expired?

He was a Piston as soon as they got the #2 draft pick.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Well, there you go, mate. That's like believing your average n00b on basketballboards.net. Someone like Sam Smith is a simple basketball fan like you or I. What do you think gets more attention: slandering the soft target Darko Milicic or proposing that we stay the course until the timeframe that Joe Dumars clearly set out for his NBA blossoming expired?
> 
> He was a Piston as soon as they got the #2 draft pick.


Wait.. you lost me on this considering if you read through this thread I have never stated Darko is a bust, quite the contrary to that. I have stated I think he will turn out to be a solid player.

You must not have read through all this thread ?

My point about the placement of the 2003 draft had nothing to do with who was going to go where and at when. My point was only you made Wade sound like he was a late draft pick. When in reality he was taken as the 5th pick. Also my point about Carmelo had nothing to do with him being picked after Darko. My point was that the hype machine was bigger for Carmelo coming out of Syracuse than it was for Darko. And obviously Lebron James had the biggest mainstream hype out of them all.

Hope that clears things up for you.


----------



## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

I kind've got confused between replying to you and making a general statement upon the thread


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> I kind've got confused between replying to you and making a general statement upon the thread


That's alright, I like Darko.


----------



## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

Here you go, Discuss.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6462689/Darko_vs_Diop.avi.html 

How many 7'ers with that footspeed. 
:jawdrop:


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

AleksandarN said:


> Here you go, Discuss.
> 
> http://rapidshare.de/files/6462689/Darko_vs_Diop.avi.html
> 
> ...



I can tell you atleast one 7 footer without that footspeed and it's Diop lol


----------



## J Blaze (Jun 21, 2004)

kamego said:


> I can tell you atleast one 7 footer without that footspeed and it's Diop lol


 :laugh: :nonono: :laugh:


----------



## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/pistons/2005-10-24-pistons-darko_x.htm

Pistons say Milicic's time is coming
By David DuPree, USA TODAY
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. — Darko Milicic hasn't gotten enough playing time during the last two seasons to even earn a varsity letter. But each year, when the NBA trading deadline approaches, Detroit Pistons players parade to Joe Dumars to make sure he doesn't do anything stupid — such as trade the multitalented 7-0 center, who rarely got on court under former coach Larry Brown.

Milicic waits his turn against the Bulls during an Oct. 11 preseason game in Grand Rapids, Mich. 
By Julian Gonzalez, Detroit Free Press 

"They keep telling me not to give up on him and that he can really play," says Dumars, president of basketball operations for the Pistons. "I just smile because they're preaching to the choir."

The rest of the league could be about to see what Detroit sees as Milicic enters his third season — his first away from the hard-to-please Brown, his first under the more favorable eye of new coach Flip Saunders. 

Milicic gained confidence from playing for Serbia & Montenegro in the European Championships during the summer and has shown he is ready to be a factor this season. 

"It bothered me a lot that I never got a chance to play," Milicic says. "I was expecting just a chance to show Coach what I could do but I never got a chance to do that.

"If I had a chance to play and couldn't play, I could accept that, but I never got a chance."

Milicic — taken in the 2003 draft behind No. 1 pick LeBron James and before Carmelo Anthony— has averaged only 5.8 minutes a game in two seasons. He entered 71 of a possible 164 regular-season contests and averaged 1.6 points. 

James has played 40.9 minutes a game and averaged 24.1 points with the Cleveland Cavaliers and Anthony 35.7 minutes and 20.9 points with the Denver Nuggets. 

Milicic also has two appearances in the NBA Finals, however, and a championship ring. James hasn't been to the playoffs with the Cavs, and Anthony's Nuggets were bounced in the first round twice.

Becoming ready for his time 

A new Milicic has been showing himself this preseason. In six exhibition games, Milicic is averaging 7.7 points, 4.5 rebounds and 2.7 blocks in 21.0 minutes.

"I'm not comparing him to Kevin (Garnett), but he is a lot like Kevin when we had him when he was younger," says Saunders, who coached Garnett for 10 seasons in Minnesota before being fired last season. "If you sat up in the stands and watched Kevin run, you thought he was 6-5 or 6-6. Darko is like that."

Milicic, who is left-handed, also has a nice shooting touch and an assortment of inside moves. He prefers to play facing the basket but also is effective with his back to it.

"I'm both excited and surprised," Saunders says. "It's going to be a long process for Darko because he is still only 20 years old and there are a lot of things he still has to go through to get where he wants to be. But you can see why he was drafted where he was drafted.

"We're going to use him because I think he can help us win."

Although he does play a finesse game, toughness has never been an issue with Milicic.

"He had to be tough at a very young age," Dumars says. "He grew up in war-torn Belgrade, and his father was on the front lines in Kosovo. His teammates are always speaking up for this kid. Guys just don't do that in this league unless you are for real and they believe in you."

Point guard Chauncey Billups, for example, is high on Milicic.

"I love what Darko has been doing," he says. "He's really been focused and been very good. He will definitely help us this year."

Adds Rasheed Wallace: "I always knew he could play. He just needed the time to get ready. Now he is."

Luck of the lottery 

That Milicic is a Piston at all is a stroke of luck. The Pistons were only in the lottery in 2003 because they had obtained the pick from the Memphis Grizzlies when they were in Vancouver in 1997 as part of a deal involving Otis Thorpe.

Dumars could have taken Milicic or Anthony, who would have contributed sooner. But with Tayshaun Prince playing the same position and with a championship-caliber team in place, Dumars could afford to look well into the future. A 7-footer with Milicic's skills was just too enticing to pass up.

"If we were a different type of team or at a different stage, we might have looked elsewhere," Dumars says. "But looking at Darko and projecting, I knew that the first three or four years of his career we were going to be good no matter what, and he'd be ready when it was time for some fresh young blood in the mix. He's progressing like we thought he would."

The other Pistons have helped see to that. They tease him, as when he got arrested last week for driving with a suspended license. He was stopped because the tinted windows on his car were too dark; during the routine check, the police learned his license had been suspended because he hadn't paid a couple of outstanding tickets. 

His teammates also support and push Milicic in practice.

"His teammates want him to be good, and so they work with him and pull for him," Saunders says.

What irks Dumars is critics ranting Milicic was a wasted draft pick.

*"It amazes me how many people have an opinion of what he can and can't do, and they have never really seen him play," he says. "I have the patience of a parent. You have to see more than the young person himself, sometimes. ... Trust me, Darko is doing just fine." *


----------



## kawika (May 7, 2003)

It's funny, but I'd turn one of Dumars' comments on its head as to why I have refused to jump on the "Darko will never be any good" bandwagon. He (Dumars) doesn't, really, have the patience of a parent. If he drafts a guy and thinks he made a mistake or the player's no good, he'll dump him and not take his time doing it. If he's been holding on to Milicic, watching his trade value (presumably) decrease for the past couple of years, that tells me that Joe D. does not think this is another Mateen Cleaves or Rodney White situation and he's not just blowing smoke to cover his own behind, like a lot of GMs would.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

kawika said:


> It's funny, but I'd turn one of Dumars' comments on its head as to why I have refused to jump on the "Darko will never be any good" bandwagon. He (Dumars) doesn't, really, have the patience of a parent. If he drafts a guy and thinks he made a mistake or the player's no good, he'll dump him and not take his time doing it. If he's been holding on to Milicic, watching his trade value (presumably) decrease for the past couple of years, that tells me that Joe D. does not think this is another Mateen Cleaves or Rodney White situation and he's not just blowing smoke to cover his own behind, like a lot of GMs would.


I'd have to agree. If Joe Dumars watches a guy practice for 2 years then he will know if he wants to keep him or not. Darko still has trade value as seen by the Harrington offer over the summer, so I take it as a sign the team thinks he will be as good as advertised.


----------



## TonyMontana_83 (Dec 4, 2004)

^^^ I think it's a little late for Darko to ever become as good as he was once advertised. He was supposed to be a top 3 foreign player by now. There's still a chance he will pull a Jermaine O'Neal and become an all-star, but I doubt he will ever be a dominant force in the NBA, as was once believed.


----------



## zeebneeb (Mar 5, 2004)

AleksandarN said:


> Here you go, Discuss.
> 
> http://rapidshare.de/files/6462689/Darko_vs_Diop.avi.html
> 
> ...


That's what makes Darko so valuable. That size, and speed is why everyone blew a nut when they were scouting him.

Fast as HELL for a man that big. It's crazy when you think about it.


----------



## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

kawika said:


> It's funny, but I'd turn one of Dumars' comments on its head as to why I have refused to jump on the "Darko will never be any good" bandwagon. He (Dumars) doesn't, really, have the patience of a parent. If he drafts a guy and thinks he made a mistake or the player's no good, he'll dump him and not take his time doing it. If he's been holding on to Milicic, watching his trade value (presumably) decrease for the past couple of years, that tells me that Joe D. does not think this is another Mateen Cleaves or Rodney White situation and he's not just blowing smoke to cover his own behind, like a lot of GMs would.


Yes Dumars saw alot of things in Darko. I say that Darko's trade value is not decreasing given that alot team were after Dumars to trade him like the Hawks tried. Dumars knows what he has and is not trading away a potential Franchise player in Darko.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

TonyMontana_83 said:


> ^^^ I think it's a little late for Darko to ever become as good as he was once advertised. *He was supposed to be a top 3 foreign player by now*. There's still a chance he will pull a Jermaine O'Neal and become an all-star, but I doubt he will ever be a dominant force in the NBA, as was once believed.


I believe it was Joe Dumars who said it would take him 3 to 4 years to adjust and help in the Pistons in the NBA game.


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

TonyMontana_83 said:


> ^^^ I think it's a little late for Darko to ever become as good as he was once advertised. He was supposed to be a top 3 foreign player by now. There's still a chance he will pull a Jermaine O'Neal and become an all-star, but I doubt he will ever be a dominant force in the NBA, as was once believed.


"A little late"?

The kid won't be 21 till June 06'. You act as if Darko has gone past his prime when he is only entering his third season in the league. I'll just stop there , no point in going further now-- November is right around the corner then one side of this argument will hopefully shut up.

Edit: Good article above on this page, when I read it earlier today I was thinking of posting it in this thread.


----------



## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

Darko will not be a offensive juggernaut but in his career will be a above average rebounder, master shot blocker and a finesse offensive game like Rasheed when hes not in the post. I do not believe he will be a franshise player but i could be wrong.


----------



## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

I am going out on a limb here. If Darko gets 25-30 minutes per game he will make the all-star team.

BTW: I predicted Manu would make the all-star team last before the season started and I got laughed
out of this site.


----------



## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

benfica said:


> I am going out on a limb here. If Darko gets 25-30 minutes per game he will make the all-star team.
> 
> BTW: I predicted Manu would make the all-star team last before the season started and *I got laughed
> out of this site.*


:laugh: :biggrin: :laugh: :biggrin: :laugh:


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

I think Darko is moving along just as Joe D predicted and with a new coach and that coaches willingness to help and play him I have no doubts that Darko with all his talent and potential will be an upper tier player. People tend to forget he is still only 20.


----------



## visionary432 (Jun 14, 2003)

darko having a dominant shot blocking effort tonight


----------



## lolac101 (Jun 23, 2005)

I saw that too. Six blocks is great even if its during a preseason game.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

That's his second 6 block game of the preseason.

He's averaging 3.1 bpg (league best) in 21.4 mpg. That's 7 blocks per 48 minutes.


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

Mike luvs KG said:


> That's his second 6 block game of the preseason.
> 
> He's averaging 3.1 bpg (league best) in 21.4 mpg. That's 7 blocks per 48 minutes.


yep, should've been 8 blocks or so but fouls were called against another Piston. I don't see how anyone can argue that Darko hasn't looked like a strong defensive player regardless of preseason. He was playing against Dallas's top 7 and put a beating on them on defense. He had a nice finger roll in the 4th too.

This Pistons bench will be highly regarded by the allstar break. I can't fault people for not knowing, these guys aren't completely proven but if you watch the games you can see it. Evans is leading the league in 3pt% in the preseason at 70% (7-10). And tonight his stroke was on point once again.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

TonyMontana_83 said:


> ^^^ I think it's a little late for Darko to ever become as good as he was once advertised. He was supposed to be a top 3 foreign player by now. There's still a chance he will pull a Jermaine O'Neal and become an all-star, but I doubt he will ever be a dominant force in the NBA, as was once believed.



That is ridiculous... Why not? He isn't even 21 yrs old. It is getting a little crazy how much we as fans are starting to expect from some of these youngs guys ... especially a young big man on the bench behind the strongest frontcourt in the league.


----------



## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

Wow, my prediction doesn't seem far off now. He played 38 minutes last night, good valuable experience. A few more 38 minute games and he should be ready.


----------



## visionary432 (Jun 14, 2003)

this thread should be merged with the darko regular season assessment thread.


----------

