# Jim Buss ruined Lakers?



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Jim Buss the son of Jerry Buss having ego issues not wanting Phil Jackson on the team rather Mike Antonio? What has happen now? No playoffs, Howard wont resign with the team, aging Nash and Kobe will return next season. Freaking ego issues cause the entire Franchise fortune.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

you should probably do some reading on the subject before forming opinions - Jim Buss has been making player personnel decisions for the better part of a decade and most of those have been good decisions - chalk up a couple titles because of him in fact - if Stern doesnt put the Kibosh on the Paul trade he winds up looking even better

has he made a couple bad coaching hires? yes - has he ruined the franchise? no. FYI the whole thing blows up after next year and they have no one on their roster and can completely rebuild from scratch


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Mike D'Antoni ruined the Lakers.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

D'antoni was Jerry's choice.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> D'antoni was Jerry's choice.


He doesn't tell D'antoni how to coach the team.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

XxIrvingxX said:


> He doesn't tell D'antoni how to coach the team.


Jerry was arguably the best owner in sports history so far be it for me to criticize but if you're hiring Mike D'Antoni you pretty much know what he does and how he does it - he's not Tom Thibodeau or whatever, he's mister 7 seconds or less, and his system was poorly suited for the personnel on this team - it was a bad hire


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

XxIrvingxX said:


> He doesn't tell D'antoni how to coach the team.


*face palm*


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

e-monk said:


> Jerry was arguably the best owner in sports history so far be it for me to criticize but if you're hiring Mike D'Antoni you pretty much know what he does and how he does it - he's not Tom Thibodeau or whatever, he's mister 7 seconds or less, and his system was poorly suited for the personnel on this team - it was a bad hire


Any "good" coach wouldn't use their same old system for ANY team. It was a terrible hire on their part, but the only reason I can possibly think of that would explain Jerry hiring D'Antoni was him thinking that D'Antoni would have learned his lesson in New York and would have had something good planned for the Lakers. As we can clearly see, obviously there was nothing good planned, just the same old stupid shit.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Does anyone actually definitively know who was whose choice? My take was that Jerry wanted Phil, but Jim was able to talk him into Mike.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

> Jerry Buss had final call on D'Antoni decision
> LOS ANGELES -- The Lakers held a news conference Thursday afternoon for new head coach Mike D'Antoni, formally introducing him to the cauldron that is Laker Nation. Just four days ago it was assumed – wrongly – by many media outlets that this news conference would be to re-introduce Phil Jackson.
> 
> According to many misled members of the media, Jackson was a "lock" for the job as late as Sunday afternoon after having a job interview with the team Saturday. Instead of a lock, he was locked out, causing an uproar that was probably heard all the way back at Jackson's Montana ranch.
> ...


http://www.foxsportswest.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/story/Jerry-Buss-had-final-call-on-DAntoni-dec?blockID=820341

Of course they're not gonna come out and give a definitive answer but all they officially stated was that it was a unanimous decision.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

They wanted Phil, but only as a coach. Phil wanted to buy the groceries to borrow a phrase from Bill Parcels. The Buss family does not intend to let anyone else make the decisions. They probably didn't want to pay him either, at that point everyone knew this team was not going to go far no matter who was sitting on the sidelines.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Laker's right on schedule for their run at Wiggins.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Diable said:


> They wanted Phil, but only as a coach. Phil wanted to buy the groceries to borrow a phrase from Bill Parcels. The Buss family does not intend to let anyone else make the decisions. They probably didn't want to pay him either, at that point everyone knew this team was not going to go far no matter who was sitting on the sidelines.


As usual, diable knew exactly how good a team would be after the fact. 


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> http://www.foxsportswest.com/nba/lo...-had-final-call-on-DAntoni-dec?blockID=820341
> 
> Of course they're not gonna come out and give a definitive answer but all they officially stated was that it was a unanimous decision.


Obviously he made the final decision. Reading the tea leaves seems to indicate that Jerry initially preferred Phil, but was eventually talked into D'Antoni (or anyone else) by Jim. Of course he could be lying, but if we were to believe Phil, he actually did not make requests for anything beyond a standard coaching position. No shares, no games off, no personnel control. Who knows. Who cares.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Its Jim Buss guys. Come on Dad, if you dont let me be the final say how can I manage the team when you arent around anymore? Jim. Thanks. You ruined the Lakers. Mike D'Antoni true sucks. LA playing any defense at all? Sometimes it's the offensive system which made the defense worse. F U Mike!!!!


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

I said it once and I'll say it again, D'Antoni ruined the Lakers, not Jim Buss. Yes, Buss made some stupid hiring decisions, but it's D'Antoni's responsibility as a coach to find ways to turn this team around. All he's done is continue to go with the same thing over and over again. I know they've had an improvement in their record, but the fact still remains that they should be playing a lot better than this when you consider the talent they have. D'Antoni knows this and yet doesn't take responsibility for it (not saying ALL of it is his fault, but a good amount of it is).


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

I don't know man. When you hire Mike, you're hiring his system. Did anyone really expect him to adjust to the personnel? It took reaching rock bottom, but he's essentially abandoned it at this point anyway. He's done a terrible job, but I could've told you that before the hire, and in fact I did (or I at least said he'd be a bad fit if we want to get specific). Nothing in his history indicates he was going to adjust his approach and turn the team around.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Jace said:


> I don't know man. When you hire Mike, you're hiring his system. Did anyone really expect him to adjust to the personnel? It took reaching rock bottom, but he's essentially abandoned it at this point anyway. He's done a terrible job, but I could've told you that before the hire, and in fact I did (or I at least said he'd be a bad fit if we want to get specific). Nothing in his history indicates he was going to adjust his approach and turn the team around.


I dont think he even decided anything - I think during the closed door meeting the players just kind of said **** this and did what they knew they should have been doing from the start - the Lakers would probably have 10 more wins if they'd just kept going with bernie


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Diable said:


> They wanted Phil, but only as a coach. Phil wanted to buy the groceries to borrow a phrase from Bill Parcels. The Buss family does not intend to let anyone else make the decisions. They probably didn't want to pay him either, at that point everyone knew this team was not going to go far no matter who was sitting on the sidelines.


dont forget Phil also wanted to part time it and name his successor - would have been better if they'd gone with BShaw from the start (and a heck of a lot cheapeer)


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

e-monk said:


> I dont think he even decided anything - I think during the closed door meeting the players just kind of said **** this and did what they knew they should have been doing from the start - the Lakers would probably have 10 more wins if they'd just kept going with bernie


The mistake was firing brown. No contender has ever brought in an outside coach mid year and been successful. Moving your president to the bench doesn't count. 

This isn't diable "it was obvious to me back then, I just didn't say it" talk either. I said that in every thread. Lakers would probably have equal struggles with McMillan, Dumbleavy or Sloan. 


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

the real mistake was hiring Brown in the first place and not BShaw or Adelman


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

e-monk said:


> the real mistake was hiring Brown in the first place and not BShaw or Adelman


Brown was a good coach, I thought his offensive game plan at the start of his second season as a Lakers coach was questionable, but regardless if they would have given him some time, the Lakers could have developed into a great defensive team and who knows, he probably would've made Howard give more effort into getting back more into his old self.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

his offensive game plan for last season was stupid (let's run P&R with Derek Fisher as the PG?) and even worse than stupid this year (now that we have Steve Nash let's abandon the P&R and go to the princeton?) but most damning the Lakers defense was actually worse under him than it was under Phil the year before - guy was in over his head from the beginning


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

e-monk said:


> his offensive game plan for last season was stupid (let's run P&R with Derek Fisher as the PG?) and even worse than stupid this year (now that we have Steve Nash let's abandon the P&R and go to the princeton?) but most damning the Lakers defense was actually worse under him than it was under Phil the year before - guy was in over his head from the beginning


The Lakers weren't running P&R's last year. What team were you watching? Hell Kobe brought the ball up from the backcourt 90% of the time. 

Last year they couldn't feed the post or hit a 3 to save their life. They were good on defense though. This year it's almost the opposite.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Jamel Irief said:


> The Lakers weren't running P&R's last year. What team were you watching? Hell Kobe brought the ball up from the backcourt 90% of the time.


the fact that they couldnt run P&Rs because they had Derek Fisher as a starting PG most of the season doesnt change the fact that they brought in Ettore Messina in a misguided attempt to institute that offense



> Last year they couldn't feed the post or hit a 3 to save their life. They were good on defense though. This year it's almost the opposite.


they were ok on defense but worse than they were the year previous under Phil and Brown was supposed to be a defensive minded coach


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

e-monk said:


> the fact that they couldnt run P&Rs because they had Derek Fisher as a starting PG most of the season doesnt change the fact that they brought in Ettore Messina in a misguided attempt to institute that offense
> 
> 
> 
> they were ok on defense but worse than they were the year previous under Phil and Brown was supposed to be a defensive minded coach


Brown was a defensive minded coach but he wasn't THAT good of a defensive coach. I honestly have no clue how the Cavs were so good defensively in the 2009 and 2010 seasons (even better than the Lakers I think), but I wasn't expecting Brown to be a better defensive coach than Phil, but I still thought it was a good idea to sign him because he can still do a good job of making a team into a good defensive team. I will admit that I expected the Lakers to be a lot better.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

I don't know that there were any great fits available anyway. SVG was the only one who would've excited me as a Laker fan, and clearly there were some obstacles there. I agree that a get out of the way guy like Bernie would've been the best choice to finish the season once Brown was fired. That obviously wasn't going to happen. though.

I don't think Brown would've been the reason they didn't win a title, but gosh is he a goofball. Gotta be hard for Kobe to take him seriously, and if he doesn't, the team won't. Dwight would've blocked him out eventually. Might as well have gotten rid of him.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Jace said:


> I don't know that there were any great fits available anyway.


rick adelman


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

I was actually thinking it would've been ideal if he were available this time around. I know he was when Brown was hired.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Sloan.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Is it just me - or have the Lakers not run a ton of 7-seconds or less this year? I haven't seen much of it. Sure - D'Antoni has been a bad fit but the criticism of him as stuck in his ways, that he can't get away from his system, is unwarranted. He hasn't done a great job in LA but he also hasn't forced 7-seconds or less on the team. He's tried to find ways to get the team rolling, but he simply hasn't been very good at it.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

We don't know he hasn't been trying. Could be the team just not running it.



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Sloan.


Hell no.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

ChrisWoj said:


> Is it just me - or have the Lakers not run a ton of 7-seconds or less this year? I haven't seen much of it. Sure - D'Antoni has been a bad fit but the criticism of him as stuck in his ways, that he can't get away from his system, is unwarranted. He hasn't done a great job in LA but he also hasn't forced 7-seconds or less on the team. He's tried to find ways to get the team rolling, but he simply hasn't been very good at it.


they did try at first but since any one with a pulse and a double digit IQ would see that that was a bad idea (except D'Antoni) it lead to a lot of turnovers and a lot of L's and then the closed room meeting and lo and behold they finished the second half of the season as one of the 3 or 4 hottest teams in league record-wise (over 40-ish games)


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

It's just a really bad idea when you try to push pace with the team that is terrible at getting back on defense.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Diable said:


> It's just a really bad idea when you try to push pace with the team that is terrible at getting back on defense.


add old and slow to that description and it's a recipe for disaster


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