# Knicks Postgame Thread 1/18



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

There will probably be a ton of stories about the game so this will be the thread. I'll post highlights here.
Skiles Postgame

Gordon Buzzer shot

I updated the buzzer beater to actual game footage.

Bulls Highlights Xvid Format File Size: 37.27MB

Ben Gordon Postgame COmments


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

*Bulls win wild one*
Davis ejected after entering stands



> The anticipated homecoming for the Knicks' Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis turned into a bizarre and chilling scene Wednesday night at the United Center when Davis charged into the fans' seating area during a timeout in overtime to confront a fan apparently having an altercation with some of Davis' family members.
> 
> The incident cast a shadow on the Bulls' thrilling 106-104 victory, won with Ben Gordon's buzzer-beating 21-foot jump shot.
> 
> ...


*Bulls win wild one*


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

Awesome, respect++


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Asked Tuesday about the impact Curry and Davis would have made for the Bulls if he hadn't traded them in the fall, Paxson said he never thinks about it.


LOL. Yah right.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> LOL. Yah right.


Maybe he's realised that sitting there and dwelling on the past won't get him anywhere.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

LOL!! He really hates giving BG credit.....

I've never seen anyone throw their players under the bus so much. 

"I don't think Ben hurt his knee....I think he blew his assignment and fell down and uh.........did the ol' "NBA hurt" thing...."

Wow.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

step said:


> Maybe he's realised that sitting there and dwelling on the past won't get him anywhere.





> But the Bulls' boss, who did not attend the game because of a scouting trip, is said to acknowledge privately the team misses Curry's size and offensive skills.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

The Krakken said:


> "I don't think Ben hurt his knee....I think he blew his assignment and fell down and uh.........did the ol' "NBA hurt" thing...."
> 
> Wow.



Yeah, that shocked me when I heard it.

It seems that, based on comments I've heard from Paxson and Skiles, that they are disgusted with many aspects of the league in which they are employed. 

I guess the fat checks are just too much to pass up.


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> Yeah, that shocked me when I heard it.
> 
> It seems that, based on comments I've heard from Paxson and Skiles, that they are disgusted with many aspects of the league in which they are employed.
> 
> I guess the fat checks are just too much to pass up.


Some of the comments I hear from Skiles would suggest that he is about 30-40 years older than he really is. The guy was still playing in the decade prior to this one, but it seems lie he'd be out of touch even 20-25 years ago.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Great shot by Gordon. Looked like the exact same setup as the final play against the Pacers, but instead of attacking, he pulled up and banged the jumper, because he knew he didn't have enough time. Good recognition by Gordon, it's always good when your players can learn from their mistakes that quickly, and understand what you can and can't do in a certain amount of time. Good clock awareness.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

The Krakken said:


> LOL!! He really hates giving BG credit.....
> 
> I've never seen anyone throw their players under the bus so much.
> 
> ...


Ick. What a downer Skiles can be. What's the point in saying something like that even if you're thinking it. It's just bad business to embarass your own player like that.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

video is up.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

The Krakken said:


> LOL!! He really hates giving BG credit.....
> 
> I've never seen anyone throw their players under the bus so much.
> 
> ...


Well it's true. And it usually isn't just an NBA thing. It is a black athlete thing. They are the only players, who when get burned then act as if they are major league hurt. And I don't mean to bring race into it, but even I notice it because I play basketball with black athletes and it is generally the same everytime. I have never seen a white, asian, hispanic player do that.


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Skiles was actually being REALLY pc by just calling it an "nba thing".


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> video is up.


 :worship:


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Whack Arnolds said:


> Skiles was actually being REALLY pc by just calling it an "nba thing".


 what?


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Okay, here's what's Daily Herald (aka Mike Mcgraw) had to say:

Tempers flare; Gordon flair  



> A game that featured a season’s worth of craziness packed into a fourth quarter and overtime ended with the sequel to a familiar story.
> 
> New York native Ben Gordon knocked down a 21-foot jumper at the buzzer to give the Bulls a scintillating 106-104 victory over the New York Knicks on Wednesday at the United Center.
> 
> ...





> Davis wasn’t the only player ejected. With 2:50 left in overtime, Chris Duhon was tossed, along with New York forward Maurice Taylor. Duhon was knocked to the ground while setting a screen on Taylor, then the 6-foot-1 Bulls guard jumped to his feet and shoved the 6-9 Taylor with both hands.
> 
> Bulls general manager John Paxson might have been proud, but he was out of town on a scouting trip. A day earlier, Paxson suggested the Bulls need to stand up for themselves.
> 
> “I just thought it was a cheap shot,” Duhon said. “He didn’t make any type of basketball move to get outside the screen. He had plenty of time to see me there and he just lowered his shoulder and plowed right over me.”


Skiles: Being friendly with refs can go a long way  



> Bulls coach Scott Skiles did not believe he and John Paxson delivered contradictory messages Tuesday.
> 
> While Paxson urged the players to show their nasty side and stand up for themselves, Skiles suggested they learn the first names of every NBA official and treat the referees respectfully.
> 
> ...


John Jackson in the Sun-Times:

Look for NBA not to pull punches with Davis  




> The last time there was an incident in which NBA players entered the stands during a game the league office handed out lengthy suspensions to all involved.
> 
> Although Wednesday night's incident at the United Center doesn't remotely come close to the ugliness of the November 2004 incident in the Palace of Auburn Hills -- where Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest charged into the stands to fight with fans and was followed by a few teammates -- New York Knicks forward Antonio Davis figures to be suspended for multiple games, even though he said he entered the stands only to protect his wife, Kendra.
> 
> Whatever the punishment, the NBA office is expected to make a decision before the Knicks host the Detroit Pistons tonight at Madison Square Garden.


A wild and Bully finish in OT at UC  



> The Davis incident was the most bizarre happening in a strange and exciting game the Bulls won on a 22-foot shot by guard Ben Gordon at the buzzer. The game and the incident overshadowed former Bull Eddy Curry's return to the United Center.
> 
> ''That game had a little bit of everything,'' Bulls coach Scott Skiles said. ''It was a hard-fought win. Fortunately, we had the ball last, and Ben made a great shot.''
> 
> ...


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Northwest Herald:

Skiles hopes Bulls get message 



> CHICAGO – Bulls general manager John Paxson questioned the players on the roster Tuesday after practice. On Wednesday, before the Bulls hosted the Knicks, coach Scott Skiles did not wonder so much how the team would respond as much as whether they even knew about the tirade in which Paxson challenged the players to stand up for themselves.
> 
> "You're making an assumption they even read it," Skiles said. "I wouldn't necessarily make that assumption. We just happen to be in a time when there are an awful lot of players that aren't paying attention to a whole lot that goes on outside there own little worlds.
> 
> ...


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Kent McDill in the Daily Herald:

Curry’s return overshadowed 



> Before the Davis incident, the story was Curry, who was part of a controversial trade after the Bulls exhausted their efforts to satisfy the team’s needs in regards to Curry’s heart problems. Curry was mildly booed during introductions.
> 
> “I understand the boos,’’ Curry said. “I was a little nervous and wanted to come out and do well. It was strange being out there and pushing guys you fought so hard for before.”
> 
> ...


Trade put Davis in tough situation  




> Antonio Davis, generally well-spoken, was having difficulty putting his feelings into words.
> 
> Davis was returning to the United Center for the first time Wednesday since being traded along with Eddy Curry to the New York Knicks last summer.
> 
> ...


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Some stuff from the New York Papers:

Turnovers costly on chaotic Chicago night  




> CHICAGO - Eddy Curry's Chicago homecoming was ruined by a New Yorker.
> Ben Gordon scored 32 points, including a 22-foot jumper over Trevor Ariza at the buzzer, as the Bulls defeated the Knicks, 106-104, in a game that featured Antonio Davis going into the stands with 1:04 remaining to confront a heckler who was arguing with Davis' wife, Kendra.





> The Knicks committed 23 turnovers. Nate Robinson scored 10 fourth-quarter points to lead the comeback,* but he committed two of his five turnovers in overtime. The Knicks were also hurt by foul troubles. One game after Bulls GM John Paxson went into the referees' locker room to complain about foul calls, the Knicks were called for 10 more fouls than Chicago*. Also, in recent days both Paxson and coach Scott Skiles called out the players publicly for not putting up a fight. "We have a bunch of guys who basically have to decide if they want to be sort of the typical NBA player, which nowadays is more of an excuse-maker and a blamer and has his agent telling him how great he is," Skiles said. "There's not a lot of realism in that. Or, do you want to fight and scrap and claw for wins? I'm confident that our guys will eventually get that message."


Heartbreaker at buzzer 



> Curry and Crawford encountered mild booing during introductions, but the environment turned hostile with 2:50 left in OT when the Knicks' Maurice Taylor and the Bulls' Chris Duhon got into a shoving match and both were ejected after being separated by teammates and coaches.
> 
> The Knicks overcame a nine-point fourth-quarter deficit to force overtime when Nate Robinson made a layup with 12.6 seconds left in regulation and Gordon missed at the buzzer.
> 
> ...


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

So the Knicks had 10 more fouls called on them than the Bulls. This is not the norm for this team.

Anybody think Pax's profanity-laden tirade had an impact? There were a couple of calls yesterday I was surprised to see go in the Bulls' favor. Tyson's drawn charge comes to mind.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Glad that the Bulls pulled out a win. What a wild and wooly game! I do wish that Curry & Crawford had played more like they have been recently, it would have been nice to have shown some of you who don't watch the Knicks what they are doing but unfortunately they both had subpar nights. Really though I am just glad the Bulls got the win to a very hard fought contest!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

They came into OUR house and played us nearly to double overtime and without their star player. Would we have won on a neutral court? If they had Marbury?

The good news is that when you face a team you think you should beat, and they're hurting, and you walk away with a win, mission accomplished.

The bad news is that it's hard to come away from this game thinking these two teams aren't extremely close in talent and ability to win games.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> The bad news is that it's hard to come away from this game thinking these two teams aren't extremely close in talent and ability to win games.


I'm impressed with the Knicks' young crew, especially with Lee and become more disappointed we couldn't walk away with him in the trade.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> They came into OUR house and played us nearly to double overtime and without their star player. Would we have won on a neutral court? If they had Marbury?
> 
> The good news is that when you face a team you think you should beat, and they're hurting, and you walk away with a win, mission accomplished.
> 
> The bad news is that it's hard to come away from this game thinking these two teams aren't extremely close in talent and ability to win games.


My normal sentiment is that a win is a win, but I can certainly understand this sentiment. On paper, this is a team that should have been soundly beaten.

Here's my question:

Did we beat a lousy team without their best player, or did we beat a recently jelled and greatly improved Larry Brown team missing its best player? I'm not sure that either is much of an accomplishment, really. But there has been debate here recently about whether the Knicks have turned it around and become a decent squad or if they are still awful. We'll see.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> My normal sentiment is that a win is a win, but I can certainly understand this sentiment. On paper, this is a team that should have been soundly beaten.
> 
> Here's my question:
> 
> Did we beat a lousy team without their best player, or did we beat a recently jelled and greatly improved Larry Brown team missing its best player? I'm not sure that either is much of an accomplishment, really. But there has been debate here recently about whether the Knicks have turned it around and become a decent squad or if they are still awful. We'll see.



The latter most definitley. Take it from someone who, as a Crawford & Curry fan, has been watching Knicks games. That being said, the Knicks didn't play as well as they have been last night. Curry & Crawford were more tentative, Robinson & Frye did not play as well as they usually do, and of course they missed Marburys penetration.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

The end of the game was predictable (not the score). Somehow I knew Crawford was going to hit a 3 to tie it and the ball would be in Ben's hands for the final shot.

I talked in a game thread a few games ago about clock management. The knicks knew they had to take a 3 to tie, but they did so with enough time left for the Bulls to set up an isolation play for Ben and for him to maneuver to get off a shot squared to the basket and a good look.

If Crawford hits his three 2 or 3 seconds later - or better yet, as the clock expired - it goes to OT.


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

Wild and wooly? Well certainly Weird.

The game I watched looked like a game neither team wanted to win. Turnovers at critical points like KH tripping over a teammate, stupid fouls on jump shooters behind the arc (BG), stupid fouls by TC & the Knicks EC, Duhon asserting his manhood, players going into the stands....dumb....dumb....dumb...

I typically can't stand NY's announcers, but his comment about there being plenty of bone head nominees for the bonehead play of the night award was a very astute one.

Awfully played game, though one very bad team had to win.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> I talked in a game thread a few games ago about clock management. The knicks knew they had to take a 3 to tie, but they did so with enough time left for the Bulls to set up an isolation play for Ben and for him to maneuver to get off a shot squared to the basket and a good look.
> 
> If Crawford hits his three 2 or 3 seconds later - or better yet, as the clock expired - it goes to OT.


I'm cerain the timing of JC's shot was intentional, DB. When shooting for the TIE, coaches pretty much always want the shot to go up in enough time so that if it is missed there is hopefully enough time to get the offensive board and put up another shot. That is the standard strategy. JC did the right thing.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> The end of the game was predictable (not the score). Somehow I knew Crawford was going to hit a 3 to tie it and the ball would be in Ben's hands for the final shot.
> 
> I talked in a game thread a few games ago about clock management. The knicks knew they had to take a 3 to tie, but they did so with enough time left for the Bulls to set up an isolation play for Ben and for him to maneuver to get off a shot squared to the basket and a good look.
> 
> If Crawford hits his three 2 or 3 seconds later - or better yet, as the clock expired - it goes to OT.


I think I remember discussing this here a few months back.

I always thought if a team is down by 2 or 3 they shouldn't wait to let the clock wind down and try to score as quickly as possible. If you miss, you can still prolong the game by fouling and such.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> I talked in a game thread a few games ago about clock management. The knicks knew they had to take a 3 to tie, but they did so with enough time left for the Bulls to set up an isolation play for Ben and for him to maneuver to get off a shot squared to the basket and a good look.
> 
> If Crawford hits his three 2 or 3 seconds later - or better yet, as the clock expired - it goes to OT.


I'm cerain the timing of JC's shot was intentional, DB. When shooting for the TIE, coaches pretty much always want the shot to go up in enough time so that if it is missed there is hopefully enough time to get the offensive board and put up another shot. That is the standard strategy. JC did the right thing.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I'm cerain the timing of JC's shot was intentional, DB. When shooting for the TIE, coaches pretty much always want the shot to go up in enough time so that if it is missed there is hopefully enough time to get the offensive board and put up another shot. That is the standard strategy. JC did the right thing.


You're such a pessimist! 

You gotta think you can call a timeout and draw up a play and execute it and score. (Optimism).

If you miss, it's not a good situation if you're putting the other team on the foul line to shoot free throws. You don't need to draw up a particularly clever play to score from the FT line.

If you make, you give the Bulls a timeout and chance to draw up their play. 

Reason for optimism? Craw hit his 3 and Gordon hit his 2.

It's not like you say a 40% shooter has a 40% chance to hit a basket after a timeout and the coach has drawn up a play to set 3 picks for him...

EDIT: Do the knicks win if Crawford misses his 3, whether there's 15 seconds or 0.1 seconds left on the clock? Didn't the bulls win exactly because there were 0.1 or less seconds on the clock after ben hit his basket, preventing the Knicks from having a chance to tie or even win (with another 3)?


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Really good (or I suppose the better word would be entertaining - both teams didn't look all that sharp) game. From completely left field, one thing I noticed from the box score was that Stephen Graham was actually on the active roster and Basden was inactive?


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> You're such a pessimist!
> 
> You gotta think you can call a timeout and draw up a play and execute it and score. (Optimism).
> 
> ...


knicks announcers commented on how jamal did the right thing, shooting before hinrich could get to him in case the bulls tried the foul/2 free throw strategy. personally that's a crazy route after the other fouled three point attemps, but this is another factor to consider.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2006)

I wish Curry and Crawford had blown the Bulls out of the water. This board is much more entertaining when the usuals go off on their rambling, indignant rants.

:soapbox:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

RoRo said:


> knicks announcers commented on how jamal did the right thing, shooting before hinrich could get to him in case the bulls tried the foul/2 free throw strategy. personally that's a crazy route after the other fouled three point attemps, but this is another factor to consider.


I think you're right.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> "You're making an assumption they even read it," Skiles said. "I wouldn't necessarily make that assumption. We just happen to be in a time when there are an awful lot of players that aren't paying attention to a whole lot that goes on outside their own little worlds.
> 
> "It'd be simple to find out. You could just go around the league and ask [players] who the Vice President of the United States is and see who the answer is. I think you'd be surprised."



well "C-Du" certainly read it. gordon read it. 

i have a feeling every single player on the team know what pax and skiles have been saying.

skiles has such negative karma. that comment about ben being hurt, which was apparently delivered with a smirk, is really uncalled for after the guy hit the game winner. can you imagine if ben hadn't hit that shot?


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

RoRo said:


> knicks announcers commented on how jamal did the right thing, shooting before hinrich could get to him in case the bulls tried the foul/2 free throw strategy. personally that's a crazy route after the other fouled three point attemps, but this is another factor to consider.


As another aside - I really like the Knicks announcers. I could listen to Clyde Frazier call games all day long. He's just fun to listen to, really knows his stuff and comments like: "both teams are doing their fair share of hackin and slappin". When Deng had that uncontested dunk late in the game, Frazier was saying "look out!" before Deng had even made his cut to the basket. This was one game where I was glad to get the visiting teams feed. His comments on that Crawford three pointer that tied it were along the same lines. He knew the Bulls might want to foul before the shot and he also saw that Crawford shot it so quickly that nobody could foul him (or if they did it was going to be while attempting a three point shot not a non-shooting foul where he'd only get to shoot two).


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

fl_flash said:


> As another aside - I really like the Knicks announcers. I could listen to Clyde Frazier call games all day long. He's just fun to listen to, really knows his stuff and comments like: "both teams are doing their fair share of hackin and slappin". When Deng had that uncontested dunk late in the game, Frazier was saying "look out!" before Deng had even made his cut to the basket. This was one game where I was glad to get the visiting teams feed. His comments on that Crawford three pointer that tied it were along the same lines. He knew the Bulls might want to foul before the shot and he also saw that Crawford shot it so quickly that nobody could foul him (or if they did it was going to be while attempting a three point shot not a non-shooting foul where he'd only get to shoot two).



I like it when Kenny Smith calls the Knicks games...that guy is good!


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)




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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> You're such a pessimist!
> 
> You gotta think you can call a timeout and draw up a play and execute it and score. (Optimism).
> 
> ...


I am with Ron Cey, DB. When you shoot to tie, you always leave some time left on the clock. When the game is tied and you shoot to win, there should be no time left.

I think this is the way the last shot play should and have been played.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> I like it when Kenny Smith calls the Knicks games...that guy is good!


*seconded*

frazier and smith are really good. smith always has an extra depth to his analysis, examples of 'when i played in the nba.' only it would be about his team's experiences, not how good he was. frazier is just fun to listen to and he calls people out. it doesn't matter who's playing like poo, he doesn't try to polish a turd.

johnny kerr, i know he's a bulls institution and all, but i imagine he's what a crazy home for old people sounds like when they watch the bulls game...just sayin! :cheers:


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

RoRo said:


> johnny kerr, i know he's a bulls institution and all, but i imagine he's what a crazy home for old people sounds like when they watch the bulls game...just sayin! :cheers:


Harry Caray's senility had a very endearing quality to it for some reason, other than when he'd clear his throat on live air...but Red Kerr, much as I think he's a good guy, doesn't have the same quality as a commentator.

edit: but I'd take Kerr in a second over the jokers that announce Golden State games out here. Those guys are absolutely pathetic.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I've been saying as long as I've posted to internet message boards that Mike Breen is the best play-by-play guy in the business. Kevin Calabro (Seattle) is in his class, but Breen's my favorite.

Other broadcasters I really like: Chuck Swirsky/Jack Armstrong and/or Leo Rautins (Toronto). Gary Bender (PHX). Steve Albert (Pacers). Eric Reid (Heat) -- he's a blatant homer, but I like him. Ralph Lawlor (for the laughs). 

Vicious Flogging -- the GS and Denver guys are so arrogantly homeristic, you'd think they were calling games for the 27 Yankees. It's unbelievable. What's sad about it in the case of the GS guy is that he probably knows the league better than any play-by-play guy, including Breen or Calabro. He is clearly watching a ton of non-Warrior games and playing in multiple fantasy leagues. But his smarmy delivery is almost unbearable.

Other broadcasters I can't stand: the Houston play-by-play guy. Holy smokes, is he horrible. Mike Gorman and Tommy Heinsohn (actually, Gorman's not bad, he's just horrible by association). The unbelievably boring Philly/Minnesota announcers. Buckhantz/Chenier (Wiz). Grant Rampier / Jerry Reynolds (Kings), although they're much easier to take now that the Kings suck.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2298240




> Davis ascended about 10 rows to reach his wife, Kendra, during a timeout with 1:04 left. There was no physical confrontation after he got there, but several people were pointing and shouting for a few moments before security arrived.
> 
> No arrests had been made as of early Thursday morning, police said.
> 
> ...


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> I've been saying as long as I've posted to internet message boards that Mike Breen is the best play-by-play guy in the business. Kevin Calabro (Seattle) is in his class, but Breen's my favorite.
> 
> Other broadcasters I really like: Chuck Swirsky/Jack Armstrong and/or Leo Rautins (Toronto). Gary Bender (PHX). Steve Albert (Pacers). Eric Reid (Heat) -- he's a blatant homer, but I like him. Ralph Lawlor (for the laughs).


Bender's in Phoenix? He was the long time Badger Sports voice, and worked at a station in Madison when one of my brothers did. Haven't seen him on anything in ages.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

narek said:


> Bender's in Phoenix? He was the long time Badger Sports voice, and worked at a station in Madison when one of my brothers did. Haven't seen him on anything in ages.


Bender's been there for at least as long as I've had League Pass. He does all their home games on FSN, and their road games are on free TV with a different (and not as good) play-by-play guy. Dan Majerle and Eddie Johnson alternate as the analyst.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

%#* BEN GORDON!! Damn, chicago drafting knick killers. Crawford had 0.003 seconds left he would have hit the shot, cant call Crawford not clutch. Ya'll won without Marbury playing though.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

ScottMay said:


> Vicious Flogging -- the GS and Denver guys are so arrogantly homeristic, you'd think they were calling games for the 27 Yankees. It's unbelievable. What's sad about it in the case of the GS guy is that he probably knows the league better than any play-by-play guy, including Breen or Calabro. He is clearly watching a ton of non-Warrior games and playing in multiple fantasy leagues. But his smarmy delivery is almost unbearable.


It starts with their voices, both of which are grating even when they're not saying inane things, which isn't often despite the fact that both guys have a decent knowledge of the game and league. The play-by-play sounds like a raving teenager whenever Richardson dunks. It's terrible. 

It's a shame too, because the Warriors can be a pretty entertaining team...but I can't sit and watch their games for more than 15 minutes without getting fed up with the commentators.

anyway, enough OT on that. I just hate those guys so much that I take every opportunity to point it out.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I feel bad for Bender because he has to read that sponsorship for every 3 pointer made by the Suns. He has to read "with that 3 pointer Meritage Homes will donate xxx for every three pointer made this season to the blah blah" He's said it about 300 times around. 

Gorman is usually left speechless by Heinsohn or sometimes he says "i'm not touching that" And if I don't recognize a voice and they sound the same, you're probably not good. The Golden State guys don't know what they are talking about, saying things like "drawing a charge isn't real defense and that they should do away with it"

Breen is really good though.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

suntimes reporter john jackson on espn hotlist saying that "a fan" (the fan that was involved in the altercation, i'm guessing) is now threatening a LAWSUIT, saying that it was Kendra Davis who started it by leaving her seat and going up to his row and threatening him. i guess by potentially "lethal" finger wagging?

wow.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> suntimes reporter john jackson on espn hotlist saying that "a fan" (the fan that was involved in the altercation, i'm guessing) is now threatening a LAWSUIT, saying that it was Kendra Davis who started it by leaving her seat and going up to his row and threatening him. *i guess by potentially "lethal" finger wagging?*
> 
> wow.


Where is badfish's avatar when you need it? 

Ah, litigation. Don't you just love it?


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> suntimes reporter john jackson on espn hotlist saying that "a fan" (the fan that was involved in the altercation, i'm guessing) is now threatening a LAWSUIT, saying that it was Kendra Davis who started it by leaving her seat and going up to his row and threatening him. i guess by potentially "lethal" finger wagging?
> 
> wow.


Story online at the Trib: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...fansue,1,3554238.story?coll=cs-home-headlines





> As New York Knicks forward Antonio Davis awaited word Thursday on whether he will be suspended for climbing into the stands to confront a man during a game in Chicago, that fan said he did nothing wrong and was attacked by Davis' wife.
> 
> The altercation came in overtime Wednesday night of the Bulls' 106-104 victory. Davis said he thought his wife was in danger and later released a statement saying the fan was drunk.





> But Axelrod said Kendra Davis tried to scratch him after he protested a call. Axelrod said he never laid a hand on Davis' wife and said he was not drunk.
> 
> Axelrod's father, David, is a prominent Democratic political consultant in Chicago who has worked with Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and Chicago mayor Richard M. Daley.
> 
> ...


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

narek said:


> Story online at the Trib: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...fansue,1,3554238.story?coll=cs-home-headlines



Wow, that's a big change from what has so far been the word on this story, most of which came from Antonio Davis.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

i'm sorry but...kendra davis is a piece of work. 



> According to Axelrod, he was sitting in the seventh row and booed an official's call. Kendra Davis "came out of her seat. I didn't even pay attention to her. I thought she was just going to the bathroom or something," he said.
> 
> Axelrod, who was sitting a couple of rows behind her, said she yelled at him to be quiet. Axelrod said he did not know she was Davis' wife until the player ran into the stands.
> 
> ...



it was right after kirk was called for the foul on AD. and it was a BS call.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

On Boers & Bernstein today, they said Kendra Davis is known for being a hothead. Interesting.

Also, it's a little slimy that Davis said the fan was drunk. How would he know? And what does that have to do with anything? He's responsible for his conduct, good or bad, either way. Saying that he was drunk is just an effort to make him look like a bad guy.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> On Boers & Bernstein today, they said Kendra Davis is known for being a hothead. Interesting.
> 
> Also, it's a little slimy that Davis said the fan was drunk. How would he know? And what does that have to do with anything? He's responsible for his conduct, good or bad, either way. Saying that he was drunk is just an effort to make him look like a bad guy.


I can't find anything on Google, but I am almost positive that Kendra had run-ins with fans in Toronto.

I'm finding it hard to muster up a lot of sympathy for a $1 million dollar lawsuit coming from a 22-year-old sitting in Daddy's seats, though.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Axelrod's attorney, Jay Paul Deratany, said he planned to sue Davis and his wife for more than $1 million. Deratany said he was writing the papers Thursday for a battery suit against Kendra Davis and a slander case against Antonio Davis, and planned to file them Friday.


This is the kind of crap that gives us bottom-feeding pettifoggers a bad name.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*AD has been suspended FIVE games!* per espn breaking news...


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I can't find anything on Google, but I am almost positive that Kendra had run-ins with fans in Toronto.
> 
> I'm finding it hard to muster up a lot of sympathy for a $1 million dollar lawsuit coming from a 22-year-old sitting in Daddy's seats, though.


Hey Scott, was'nt David Axelrod (the kids dad) a member of Bill Clintons inner-circle? If he's the guy, he is a much bigger deal than Antonio Davis. Antonio may have to apologize to this kid for slandering him, maybe Kendra picked the wrong kid.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

Does anyone think we lost any chance we had of bring AD back next year, after last night?
Safe to say?


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

SPIN DOCTOR said:


> Does anyone think we lost any chance we had of bring AD back next year, after last night?
> Safe to say?


Well, yeah.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

Thats just crazy 5 games ? JUst watched the 4:30 news and they interviewed the guy he claims he didnt know the women was AD's wife and he never drinks at games.

I dunno something doesnt add up. A woman whose husband has been in the league 12 years now gets enraged because someone boos a call that goes her husbands way ? 

She and the kids are there screaming for the knicks and yelling go daddy antonio davis !!! for 4 quarters and it never occured to himn that it might be AD's wife ?

I dunno something just doesnt add up from a fans prospective .


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

it's the lead story on the 6pm sportscenter.

they have video of kendra davis touching the fan who was being "a problem".

she confronted him. left her seat and confronted the fan.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> it's the lead story on the 6pm sportscenter.
> 
> they have video of kendra davis touching the fan who was being "a problem".
> 
> she confronted him. left her seat and confronted the fan.


I was listening to the Score on my drive home - a youth basketball coach (5th graders) said that last year she was thrown out of a game between his club and her son's. For cursing out the officials.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I honestly don't care what she may or may not have done. What AD saw and did to protect her proved to me that he's a consumate gentleman.

My preference would have been for the league to fine him $5K and leave it at that. Perhaps a Stern warning, too. Pun intended.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Memorandum

From: David Stern

To: NBA Players

Subject: Discipline

All,

Please note that from this point forward, you will receive a five-game suspension for either of the two following actions:

A. Cheapshotting an opposing player on at least three times during a game, tripping said player, then starting a brawl in which you throw multiple closed-fist punches, tumble into the stands, and need to be separated by dozens of security guards and local policeman; then, after being ejected, attempt to assault the same player and need to be separated, again, by policemen and security.

B. Enter an arena seating area after seeing one's wife involved in what at first glance seemed to be a physical confrontation; stand there calmly, listen to an explanation of what's happened, and return to the bench.

____________

:krazy:


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

narek said:


> I was listening to the Score on my drive home - a youth basketball coach (5th graders) said that last year she was thrown out of a game between his club and her son's. For cursing out the officials.


The sad thing about that story (assuming it's true) is how not out-of-the-ordinary it is these days. I have a friend who has a prodigy-esque 8-year-old hockey-playing son, and the venue where he has his games has had to institute some absolutely crazy rules because of the parents' behavior -- a list of lots of parents who aren't allowed to watch the games, a "no-cheering/yelling" section, etc.

When I was a kid, youth basketball and Little League were an enormous part of my life, and I definitely learned a ton about teamwork and sportsmanship. It's probably harder to enjoy the experience with Mom banned from your games or Dad sitting on his hands in the penalty box.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> it's the lead story on the 6pm sportscenter.
> 
> they have video of kendra davis touching the fan who was being "a problem".
> 
> she confronted him. left her seat and confronted the fan.


In the video Axelrod (who is SITTING down) is motioning for whom i would guess is security to come down and to intervene. 

I wonder at what point did AD come arunning to "Save the day".


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> The sad thing about that story (assuming it's true) is how *not out-of-the-ordinary* it is these days. I have a friend who has a prodigy-esque 8-year-old hockey-playing son, and the venue where he has his games has had to institute some absolutely crazy rules because of the parents' behavior -- a list of lots of parents who aren't allowed to watch the games, a "no-cheering/yelling" section, etc.
> 
> When I was a kid, youth basketball and Little League were an enormous part of my life, and I definitely learned a ton about teamwork and sportsmanship. It's probably harder to enjoy the experience with Mom banned from your games or Dad sitting on his hands in the penalty box.


It is sad how out-of-control parents are spectators are at kid's games. They treat it like life and death and take all fun out of the sport.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Can I ask a question, simply, Isnt Kendra Davis alot of trouble? I mean, she basically ran her husband out of Toronto, and they did so with just some of the dumbest reasoning I have heard. And then AD cried and cried about staying close to her in Chicago when he went to NY. I mean, it always seems like he is bending over for her. And from what I hear, she has a bit of a rep as a party animal herself. So I have got to believe that she instigated whatever happened. And AD needs to stop being so ***** whipped about this woman. Really, this chick gets more play then almost Doug Christies wife.


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

I listened to some debate on TV about AD going into the stands, and I felt like they kind of missed the boat a bit. Now, I did cheat by having a hint ahead of time that Ms. AD might not have been guiltless in this from reading the posts last night, vs. those TV guys who spend a lot of their lives in sports arenas dealing with drunken yahoos. But everybody was assuming it was a drunken yahoo, including, of course, AD - some to the extent of comparing it to the Larry Gamboa White Sox fiasco. Nobody said anything like "maybe the rich lady started it... maybe Ms. AD had some fault in it. Unlikely, but possible. We don't know." (Perish the thought - an out of control NBA wife. That would never happen.) The rich person would never be the one in the wrong... Well, as it turns out they are both rich people anyway. (I did detect a lot of classism in it, the more I think about it. Not only do the players hate the fans, but the reporters do too. I love this game!) But few public opinions I've heard on this issue even conceded the possibility that there could be two sides to the story, or that Ms. AD could be anything other than 100% pristine victim. Which was interesting.

As for the suspension - many people are saying "Come on, man... that's his wife. You can't suspend him for that." But he has to be suspended, I think. The fine and suspension can be tweaked based on the circumstances, and I'm not saying AD acted as anything other than a gentleman in this case - I'm not even saying he wasn't 100% right based on what he saw. But short of him seeing a weapon and jumping in front of a bullet or something, acting like a gentleman doesn't excuse you from the rules, and there has to be some (reduced) punishment for this. I think the take should be, "That was his wife, he had to protect her, even though it will cost him some games." He didn't hit anyone, which I admire, but the consequences are the consequences, and the players have to weigh whether it's worth it before hopping up on the scorer's table for anything other than a Finals win. Sometimes it will be, sometimes it won't be. I think two games might have been OK, but 5 isn't bad. He's still a good guy in my book - just take a little break and rest your tired legs, is all.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

ESPN's main page:

*Walk Like A Man..*
_... But sit five games. That's Dale Davis' punishment. But if you ask Scoop Jackson, the so-called "crime" in Chicago was justified._



Oh that crazy Dale Davis.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

rlucas4257 said:


> Can I ask a question, simply, Isnt Kendra Davis alot of trouble? I mean, she basically ran her husband out of Toronto, and they did so with just some of the dumbest reasoning I have heard. And then AD cried and cried about staying close to her in Chicago when he went to NY. I mean, it always seems like he is bending over for her. And from what I hear, she has a bit of a rep as a party animal herself. So I have got to believe that she instigated whatever happened. And AD needs to stop being so ***** whipped about this woman. Really, this chick gets more play then almost Doug Christies wife.



not to take this thread totally off topic, but i recall a game v. toronto early in the 03-04 season. i was watching on league pass and had the raptor feed. the rap announcers were saying something about AD (it was his first game back there as a bull) being married. and one announcer said something to effect of "you coulda fooled me" and "i'm not touching that one!". i've heard stories of him being a notorious womanizer. and i have a feeling kendra davis can take care of herself, thank you very much. but that's neither here nor there, just saying, there's stuff that goes on behind closed doors, and kendra davis is not a saint. and neither is AD apparently!

last night, from AD's immediate POV it did appear that his wife was being "attacked". and while he lost his cool and rushed to the stands, his motivation was one of trying to defend a loved one. i don't question that. his thought was correct, his execution was flawed. he should have grabbed the security guy from behind the knick bench. 

but to slander the guy (axelrod) by saying he was intoxicated when he was not at all, well, sorry AD but that's not cool and you deserve whatever trouble you get. sorry not in a forgiving mood today!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Yeah, I agree with rlucas, on the Nets board earlier, I posted that I think he should get an 8 game suspension. Sure he didn't throw punches or anything, but he still broke the rules. Going into the stands is the first step towards another brawl. What if someone in the stands threw a punch at him? Would he have responded back with punches? Then he'd be out for the year, its good to see a message go out by Stern, not too harsh, but sends out a precedent not to go in the stands.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Another view from fan sitting next Kendra Davis


http://www.deadspin.com/sports/nba/a-differing-view-on-davis-trip-into-the-stands-149534.php


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Who's up for a steel cage death match between Antonio Davis' wife and Doug Christie's wife? Who wouldnt pay to see that?
> 
> by *Wesdaddy24*



:laugh:

and yeah, that's what i know i've been kinda harpin' on. ***** started it.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> not to take this thread totally off topic, but i recall a game v. toronto early in the 03-04 season. i was watching on league pass and had the raptor feed. the rap announcers were saying something about AD (it was his first game back there as a bull) being married. and one announcer said something to effect of "you coulda fooled me" and "i'm not touching that one!". i've heard stories of him being a notorious womanizer. and i have a feeling kendra davis can take care of herself, thank you very much. but that's neither here nor there, just saying, there's stuff that goes on behind closed doors, and kendra davis is not a saint. and neither is AD apparently!
> 
> last night, from AD's immediate POV it did appear that his wife was being "attacked". and while he lost his cool and rushed to the stands, his motivation was one of trying to defend a loved one. i don't question that. his thought was correct, his execution was flawed. he should have grabbed the security guy from behind the knick bench.
> 
> but to slander the guy (axelrod) by saying he was intoxicated when he was not at all, well, sorry AD but that's not cool and you deserve whatever trouble you get. sorry not in a forgiving mood today!



Mize your 100% right. 2 things here. Kendra Davis almost got into a fight with Spreewell, believe it or not. Apparently she yelled at him so hard when he was with the Knicks and they were in Toronto that security had to have her removed. Second, Antonio Davis was implicated in the strip club fiasco (the gold club?) that brought down Patrick Ewing a few years back. Apparently the owner said he would get Davis women anytime he was in NY and it was thought Davis put in a lot of time to save his marriage. But one thing for sure, this woman is not one to be trusted. She has been a first class ***** for awhile. As a proud african american I tend to side with African American women in almost every case because of the gender and race gap that they face. But this woman hasnt acted with integrity since she has been in the spotlight. I am sure she started whatever happened and perhaps AD should have paid a higher price for his *****-on-wheels wife.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

rlucas4257 said:


> Mize your 100% right. 2 things here. Kendra Davis almost got into a fight with Spreewell, believe it or not. Apparently she yelled at him so hard when he was with the Knicks and they were in Toronto that security had to have her removed. Second, Antonio Davis was implicated in the strip club fiasco (the gold club?) that brought down Patrick Ewing a few years back. Apparently the owner said he would get Davis women anytime he was in NY and it was thought Davis put in a lot of time to save his marriage. But one thing for sure, this woman is not one to be trusted. She has been a first class ***** for awhile. As a proud african american I tend to side with African American women in almost every case because of the gender and race gap that they face. But this woman hasnt acted with integrity since she has been in the spotlight. I am sure she started whatever happened and perhaps AD should have paid a higher price for his *****-on-wheels wife.



:clap:


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

This stuff cracks me up :biggrin: 

So a woman whose husband has been in the nba 14 years hears only ONE guy out of a staduim of 17000+ who by the way are all rootingf against here husband she went after only HIM. Why not the entire section ? 

This guy sits there the entire game listening to this woman and here kids cheer on the knicks and antonio Davis who by the way was having his best game of the season with 17 pts . How many people would have to be cheering for the knicks for you not to here them and have some idea of who the they were BY THE 4TH QUARTER ?

Im sorry but I dont by either side of the story instead of it being 2 adults getting caught up in the heat of the moment during a very emotional game it becomes utter nonsense .


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Philomath said:


> As for the suspension - many people are saying "Come on, man... that's his wife. You can't suspend him for that." But he has to be suspended, I think. The fine and suspension can be tweaked based on the circumstances, and I'm not saying AD acted as anything other than a gentleman in this case - I'm not even saying he wasn't 100% right based on what he saw. But short of him seeing a weapon and jumping in front of a bullet or something, acting like a gentleman doesn't excuse you from the rules, and there has to be some (reduced) punishment for this. I think the take should be, "That was his wife, he had to protect her, even though it will cost him some games." He didn't hit anyone, which I admire, but the consequences are the consequences, and the players have to weigh whether it's worth it before hopping up on the scorer's table for anything other than a Finals win. Sometimes it will be, sometimes it won't be. I think two games might have been OK, but 5 isn't bad. He's still a good guy in my book - just take a little break and rest your tired legs, is all.


I agree with just about everything here. Definitely a different event than the Piston/Pacer bruhaha. I also think the threat of a lawsuit by the fan is ridiculous...


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

I wonder what the defamation allegations will be? Davis' public statement is that he "later learned" the fan was intoxicated. 

I'm not a 1st Amendment lawyer, but it seems to me that this doesn't qualify as defamation since Davis is not making a false statement of fact. He's relaying information received from another source. 

If I'm a reporter, and I report the fact that X made Y statement about Z, but Y statement turns out to be false, I haven't defamed Z. X defamed Z by making Y statement. All I did was report it.

As to the intoxication, that is what AD did. Now, he may have made other statements of fact that were indeed false. But I got the impression that the supposed defamatory statement was the intoxication.

P.S. Axelrod's attorney evidently isn't a 1st Amendment lawyer either. Illinois doesn't even recognize a cause of action for "slander" anymore. Slander and libel have both been consolidated into "defamation" in this state. Even a corporate whore like me knows that.


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