# 76ers @ Raptors, March 13th



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>
















*Philadelphia 76ers* (30-32) @ *Toronto Raptors* (26-36)
March 13th, 2005, 6:00PM EST
TSN

<IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="IVERSON, ALLEN" TITLE="IVERSON, ALLEN" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sixers/IVERSON, ALLEN.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="IGUODALA, ANDRE" TITLE="IGUODALA, ANDRE" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sixers/IGUODALA, ANDRE.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="KORVER, KYLE" TITLE="KORVER, KYLE" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sixers/KORVER, KYLE.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="WEBBER, CHRIS" TITLE="WEBBER, CHRIS" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/kings/WEBBER, CHRIS.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="DALEMBERT, SAMUEL" TITLE="DALEMBERT, SAMUEL" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sixers/DALEMBERT, SAMUEL.jpg">
*Allen Iverson, Andre Iguodala, Kyle Korver, Chris Webber, Samuel Dalembert*

<IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="ALSTON, RAFER" TITLE="ALSTON, RAFER" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/ALSTON, RAFER.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="PETERSON, MORRIS" TITLE="PETERSON, MORRIS" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/PETERSON, MORRIS.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="ROSE, JALEN" TITLE="ROSE, JALEN" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/ROSE, JALEN.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="BOSH, CHRIS" TITLE="BOSH, CHRIS" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/BOSH, CHRIS.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="ARAUJO, RAFAEL" TITLE="ARAUJO, RAFAEL" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/ARAUJO, RAFAEL.jpg">
*Rafer Alston, Morris Peterson, Jalen Rose, Chris Bosh, Rafael Araujo*</center>


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Even though Iverson and Webber have been struggling, I don't see us winning this one.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Turkish Delight said:


> Even though Iverson and Webber have been struggling, I don't see us winning this one.


yup, if we have the same record dose we have the same amount of ping pong balls or dose the winner of the series get more?


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

A Must Lose!


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

With the departure of Carter, our go-to guy has been Rose. I will be watching to see if Rose can keep the Raptors in the game tonight.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Q8i said:


> A Must Lose!


Nah. We need to win this game. Keep Philly from making the playoffs. We can lose other games to keep our win total low.


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

I Want Da Raps To Lose. So Philly Can Make The Playoffs, I Hate Indiana Man.. They Suck! I Want Em Not To Make The Playoffs For Once 'I Mean Since A Long Time'


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Q8i said:


> I Want Da Raps To Lose. So Philly Can Make The Playoffs, I Hate Indiana Man.. They Suck! I Want Em Not To Make The Playoffs For Once 'I Mean Since A Long Time'


We own Philly's first round pick this year. If they make the playoffs, the best the pick could be is 15. If they don't, they could have a pick as low as 9. That's why I'm cheering for the Raptors to win the battle tomorrow but lose the war this season.

As for Indiana, it looks like JO could be out for the year, and the odds of them being able to make a push without him aren't great.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Looking at the last 20 games of the Raptor's game schedule, it is possible that the Raptor's could go 0 - 20 at worst and at best .... 3 - 17.

Anybody here want to challenge that prediction? :curse:


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

We got to win this one if we want to avenge that awful loss against the Hawks


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

The Raptors aren't going to go 3-17...

What makes you think they'd nosedive so bad? They will probably just skitter around .500 like they have ever since Vince left.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

Sixers should win this one, if they don't then I will be terribly disappointed.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I'd love to play a spoiler role and knock the Sixers out of the playoff race, they are already 1.5 games out.


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

When you lose to the Atlanta Hawks the way the Raps did it must be extremely draining on your psyche. Just can't see them winning this game but hopefully they do.


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Alston Just Gave Iverson A Spin.. That Made Him Forget Where He Is! HaHaHa


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Marshall BABY! He's On Fire! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Three after three after three after three!


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

10/12 for three, 46-40 Raps.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

18 Points in 6 minutes for Marshall.
Unbelievable.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Very exciting first half.
Raptors tie a franchise record with 12 threes in one half.
63-60


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Why is it that nobody is posting in these games threads anymore?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

err, ummm, rose is continually struggling?

and alston is continually letting his man shoot 50% from the field...


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

but i'm just loving the way alston is playing offensively


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## underhill_101 (Feb 22, 2005)

raps are dominating... up by 22 at the end of the 3rd... thats what i like to see :biggrin:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

underhill_101 said:


> raps are dominating... up by 22 at the end of the 3rd... thats what i like to see :biggrin:


meh...though i want the raps to win, i'd still prefer a close game over a blowout any day.

down to the wire for me please


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

wow, talk about a bad defensive team in the sixers...:uhoh:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Donyell Marshall has just tried a franchise record of 9 3 pt'ers set previously by Dee Brown

lots of times left for him to break it, unless sam elects bring out the bench early.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Donyell has just made a franchise record of 10 3 pt'ers...

and he just made another one as i was typing this :laugh:


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## vi3t_boi11 (Aug 14, 2004)

hey no one is talkin bout Bosh, 25 n 10 so far


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## Primetime23 (Feb 3, 2004)

wow 11 3's for donny

i think the record is 12 by kobe lets see if he can drop two more


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

vi3t_boi11 said:


> hey no one is talkin bout Bosh, 25 n 10 so far


meh, normal game for him


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Donyell = :bowdown:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

hoffa with 9 rebounds in 17 minutes


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

cot damn, Marshall riespek!


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

trick said:


> hoffa with 9 rebounds in 17 minutes


7 offensive boards


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## vi3t_boi11 (Aug 14, 2004)

I didn't know Dee Brown had the old record, thought it was Carter wit 9


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

vi3t_boi11 said:


> I didn't know Dee Brown had the old record, thought it was Carter wit 9


that was a record tied with Rex Chapman for most in a half.


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## vi3t_boi11 (Aug 14, 2004)

Marshall also broke the raps record for most points off the bench set by Voshon Lenard who had 30


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

WOW Donyell just WOW that is the best i have ever seen him play. WHY CANT WE DO THIS ON A NORMAL BASIS  

Oh well

Why did Sam take him out, and not let him try to hit another one in the last 30 seconds


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

madman said:


> WOW Donyell just WOW that is the best i have ever seen him play. WHY CANT WE DO THIS ON A NORMAL BASIS
> 
> Oh well
> 
> Why did Sam take him out, and not let him try to hit another one in the last 30 seconds


 Cause he already missed his last two and was being guarded heavily by the Sixers. He wasn't going to get it anyway, so he did the honourable thing... dude got a standing O too.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

****ing beautiful. Considering that this will be the last game of the season that I can watch, I couldn't have asked for a better result- winning against the only team I really want them to beat in inspiring fashion. 

As I said in the Hawks thread, I thought that was a great way to set the stage for a bounceback win against the team that matters most. 

**** I love the Raptors.


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## raps_luva (Mar 28, 2004)

Numbed One said:


> The Raptors aren't going to go 3-17...
> 
> What makes you think they'd nosedive so bad? They will probably just skitter around .500 like they have ever since Vince left.


Yeah your probably right. They would have been above .500 if only they let Vince go before the season started. This would have been a really good season for the Raptors had Vince left before the season. If he did leave earlier I'm sure the Raptors would be in a playoff spot FOR SURE..but we unfortunately had to wait until December

Anyways nice win by the Raps they played good defence in this game and bounced back from a horrible and embarrassing loss to the Hawks. Man Donny was crazyyyy in this game 12 3 pointers! He was on fire. I'm glad the Raptors won this game..Go Raps!


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

SkywalkerAC said:


> ****ing beautiful. Considering that this will be the last game of the season that I can watch, I couldn't have asked for a better result- winning against the only team I really want them to beat in inspiring fashion.
> 
> As I said in the Hawks thread, I thought that was a great way to set the stage for a bounceback win against the team that matters most.
> 
> **** I love the Raptors.


damn that sucks that you dont get to watch anymore


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

with the 21 3 pt'ers made, the raps have overtook the nba record of 19 set by Atlanta back in 1996

:banana:


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Well, what a game. The players were depressed, they were hanging their heads over a deflating loss to the Hawks. Nobody played with energy or enthusiasm. It was clear the team had given up on the season. I saw Donyell walk up to Bill Harris before the game and thank him for saying that the team sucked, and I saw him cry just a little as he did it. Woe are the Raptors.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

One of the best games i have ever seen the Raptors play, i hope this is just a preview of what they are going to do next year


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Wierd fact according to NBA.com we didnt have any fast-break points


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Oh, and Hoffa's still sweet. The guy can REALLY pass. A little plyo work in his offseason training and he'll be throwing it down around the basket. Be ready for a 180 degree change with regards to his ability to put the ball in the basket from short range next season.

And Pape Sow might be raw but he's got some serious fluidity lurking below the surface of his offensive game. 

It's nice to see Mitchell using big lines effectively with Bonner at the 3, I think that's a great sign for the future.

And how nice is it to see the Sixers floundering? Consider their future mortgaged. I was worried about them being a team on the rise but with no draft pick and no cap space, AI is not going to be a happy camper for much longer.


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

one day we play like a Eastern Champ, the other day we play like we don't know what basketball is....But i'm happy to shut down any people thinks Sixers owns the Eastern conference w/ AI and Webber....


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Would have been great to see Donyell take sole posession of that record, but I'll take it.
Great game.


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

Aww Snap.........
I didn't watch the game....I was still pissed from the Atl game....
Instead of watching the game I watched the mask, dumb and dumber damn jim carrey...

Oh well........


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Nice to see Hoffa taste some success.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

somewhere in LA Kobe is crying to his wife about his record being broken by a journey man. :biggrin: 

you know Kobe's going to try and get 14 3's in his next game, you know it. what an accomplishment by marshall.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

I am really impressed with hoffa tonight 7 offensive boards that is amazing


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Nice to see Hoffa taste some success.


Looks like someone is 200 points poorer.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Juzt_SicK03 said:


> Aww Snap.........
> I didn't watch the game....I was still pissed from the Atl game....
> Instead of watching the game I watched the mask, dumb and dumber damn jim carrey...
> 
> Oh well........


That's why there are remote controls..


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

The Raps as they are, will ussually have one game a year like this, but odds are this ain't gonna happen too often...

I don't really like games like these, because now it encourages them to shoot even more 3 pointers than they normally do. Next game will probably be a brick fest.

Bosh 25/10/5
MoPete 20/8/8

:clap:


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Another thing that impressed me with Bosh tonight wasnt on the score board. Someone here's signature had a quote from Bosh saying that he was going to make Hoffa a better player, well tonight if you watched them during huddles they would talk to each othe before everyone got there and after, i am really loving Bosh more and more after each game


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Marshall was entertaining if nothing else because he cannot sustain such a one-dimensional performance over a season of play. I enjoyed watching him demolish the Sixers, but I also know that this kind of basketball cannot result in a winning season. Donyell should be able to capitalize on his "designated shooter" accomplishments when he looks to sell his skills to other teams for the next season. He is hoping for a 3 year contract to finish his NBA career somewhere in the States, but I hear he would stay in Toronto if the money was right. I don't think he should be in the Raptor's future plans.

The player who really distinguished himself was Bosh with his all-round play resulting in a 25/10/5 performance. I suggested that he may now be better than Garnett, and I feel more vindicated in that belief now. Bosh has a very high energy level and his game has really taken off with the departure of Carter (who strangled team offense with all the plays going through him while the rest of the team got iced watching him) .... and it's happening in NJ too.

I just found this hilarious quote by Morris Peterson where he said: "We have no plays where guys move, we just stand in one spot like we did last year." ... LOL ... !!!!

Even the Sixers struggle as a team because of AI's overwhelming influence, as are the Lakers with Kobe. A successful NBA team need two star players to balance out their offense, or a group of fast and athletic younger players. I prefer to watch the latter group and support them as they develop. Yes blue collar veterans are needed but only in a supporting role. 

Obviously in this game the Sixers strategy was to defend the paint and let the perimeter go free ... and that was their downfall. The Sixers coach lost the game for them, not the players.


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

*Kobe Is Gon Set A New Record vs. Wizards*

Marshall - Marshall - Marshall - Marshall
lOl.. I Can't Say Anythin Man, It's Just Amazin! Cant Explain It

It Wudve Been Better If We Beaten The Hawks The Other Night!


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Oh Yeh.. U Guys See When CB4 Got Fouled Hard & Got Up Like It Was Nothin? Damn That Was Good To See Man... If It Was VC, He Wud Be Layin In The Locker Room 'Fake Cryin'

CB4 U Owe!


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

WOW Marshall was insane!!!!!!!! 

You guys need to give it up for a few other guys too, how bout Bosh with 25,10 and 5 or mo pete with 20,8 and 8 and a near trip doub. Its funny how everybody has like 4 assists higher than they should, they will be buying donny some good dinner.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

MonsterBosh said:


> I suggested that he may now be better than Garnett,.


Garnett

PPG 22.4
RPG	13.8
APG	5.7
SPG	1.47
BPG	1.36
FG%	.505
FT%	.800
3P%	.190
MPG	38.8

Bosh

PPG 16.3
RPG	8.6
APG	1.9
SPG	.95
BPG	1.30
FG%	.473
FT%	.737
3P%	.286
MPG	36.3


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

ABC said:


> Garnett
> 
> PPG 22.4
> RPG	13.8
> ...


I think he means when C4 reaches his full potential, not right now.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Nope .... right now ... !!!!

Past performance is just that, and if you compare the current performance of Garnett to Bosh you will find there is not that much difference. If Bosh played for the Timberwolves, his past numbers would undoubtedly be higher than those generated on the hapless Raptors. 

Bosh is the only true post-up player the Rapters have, and he also faces the basket and scores in the mid-range. While the rest of the Raptors stand behind the perimeter and pot 3-pointers, Bosh is struggling alone under the basket and still generates double-doubles. He did this as a rookie and now he does it as a sophomore NBA player. How much more can he endure??!!!!

If you put up Garnett to Bosh head-to-head, I think you will not see much difference now. Unfortunately this will not happen again and the last meeting these teams had was on Jan. 17, where the Raps won 100-91.

Garnett went 20/14/5 while Bosh got 19/11/4 .... not much difference, and Bosh was playing under less advantageous conditions being on a weaker team. The Raps won that game with 10-20 3-point shooting against 1-17 for the TWolves ... go figure!!! Also E-Will was starting for the Raps while Marshall and Rose came off the bench for 38 points. 

So you know that Bosh really earned his points posting up and banging with TWolves interior defense. As usual the rest of the Raps were standing around the perimeter and potting 3's. If roles were reversed and Bosh had played on the TWolves I have no doubt that he would have registered at least 25/15/5 against the hapless Raptors, with Garnett.

Better to be lucky than smart ... particularily if your team does not rank very high on basketball IQ smarts ....!!

Currently, I would not trade Bosh for Garnett under any circumstances. Bosh is rising while Garnett is struggling. I think that the Raptors will have to come up with something like $20M per for Bosh if they want him to stay after 2007. Do you think that the MLSE will want to spend that kind of money on one basketball player?? That's what lowly Minnesota will be paying Garnett .. !!!

So what do you "Stupid Torontonians" (as per Budweiser_Boy) think about that .... will Bosh be kept in Toronto at $20M per year????


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## Primetime23 (Feb 3, 2004)

Bosh is one of my favourtie players but he's not as good as Garnett is right now, be patient he's only in his second year in the league in the future he might be better but right now he isnt better than the defending MVP.

Also I dont think Bosh is going to have the option of signing for more than 20 mil a year coming off a rookie contract, we'll see this summer with the new CBA but i doubt it


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Primetime23 said:


> Bosh is one of my favourtie players but he's not as good as Garnett is right now, be patient he's only in his second year in the league in the future he might be better but right now he isnt better than the defending MVP.


It just shows you how worthless Garnett's past performance has become. His MVP must now be a LVP given that Minnesota is now only a 0.500 club going nowhere as Garnett sinks away for the rest of the season. The trick is to project future performance, and it seems to me that Bosh's potential upside is much greater than Garnett, who has plateaued.



> Also I dont think Bosh is going to have the option of signing for more than 20 mil a year coming off a rookie contract, we'll see this summer with the new CBA but i doubt it


Yes the current NBA-Player negotiations may preclude any more big long-term contracts, but that doesn't mean that Bosh shouldn't max out his earning potential as a projected 25/10/5 power forward which any team can build around. The question is does Bosh believe he can max out his career in Toronto?


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> So what do you "Stupid Torontonians" (as per Budweiser_Boy)


Could you please drop that. I wasn't talking about (most of) the posters on this board and I thought that was understood. The majority of posters here are objective (non-casual) fans who can think for themselves, and don't see the Raptors in an endless downward spiral.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

that game was nuts. it was like we threw all caution to the wind and embraced our identity as 3-point marksmen. it was fun to watch, though. 

marshall seems to be getting quite a bit of publicity for his performance, and while i suppose he _is_ somewhat deserving, i didn't think he was so dominant as to command the attention he got this morning. the people around these boards are going crazy at the "tied record", the papers in the _states_ have also made this front page news... i must be living in another dimension or something. i thought he had a great game, no doubt, but they were just three pointers- he takes them all the time! (and i'm glad all the practice finally paid off, yell! )

but hey, i'm not gonna complain about anything here. that was a fun game to watch against a team we really wanted to beat. 

peace


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

I still can't believe I decided to miss this game... :curse:


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Could you please drop that. I wasn't talking about (most of) the posters on this board and I thought that was understood. The majority of posters here are objective (non-casual) fans who can think for themselves, and don't see the Raptors in an endless downward spiral.


Really Bud_Boy .... there is always a grain of truth in what one may utter in jest, as you did when you refered to Torontonians as "Stupid" in your particular context. I am only repeating what you stated when you provided this forum with that description of Torontonians, albeit in jest. I would have never thought of calling Torontonians "Stupid" ... but I get your point.

What concern me about you is your new reference to:: _" ... fans who can think for themselves and don't see the Raptors in an endless downward spiral"._ This comment of yours suggests that there may be:: _ .. fans who *can't* think for themselves and see the Raptors in an endless downward spiral."_

Since you live in Toronto, can you tell us about those "fans" who can't think for themselves and see the Raptors in an endless downward spiral!!! Are there many of them and would you also categorize them as "Stupid Torontonians" too ...??!!!

Thank goodness I can think for myself and do not see the Raptors in an endless downward spiral ... as you should aptly percieve from my few postings on this fine forum ... !


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I don't know you in person, and since you don't post very often, I can't tell what kind of a person or a basketball fan you are. But judging by the few posts you do make, in fact the vibe you give off is of one who sees the Raptors in an endless downward spiral. Any time Bonner's name has come up, I've seen reasons as to why he'd leave. You've made quite a few posts like this about Bosh too (when the fact of the matter is that he's a restricted free agent and the Raptors WILL re-sign him).

As for "stupid Torontonians"... the translation for that is casual fans, who don't know much about the state of the Raptors or basketball in general. They just repeat what they see in newspapers which is all negative, they have no patience, and they can't see more than two steps ahead of them. There are a lot of them in real life, and a couple on this board too, although I am convinced that most of the guys here know what time it is.

The Raptors' future isn't that bad. The jury's still out on Hoffa (and half of the reporters bashing him can't even pronounce his name right - go figure), Bonner and Bosh will re-sign, we have two top-15 draft picks coming our way this year, Alvin is coming back, Rafer's maturing, and we have a quality vet in Rose. The team has problems, and won't make the playoffs, but that's all part of re-building. All we're saying on this forum is not to get sucked up in all the gahbage negativity surrounding the Raptors, like we've seen in so many of the people we cross paths with every day.

You might think you're being objective, but if you ask about 98.7% of the people on the board, you're just being negative most of the time. Chill man, that's all we're saying.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Bud_Boy (Age - 17) ..... You are obviously a loving and loyal Raptor fan who is besotted with the current team. You can see no looming problems and prefer to live in an optomistic haze to maintain your subjective attitude and, as you say, is shared by 98.7% on this forum. Love of the Raptors can only take you so far before you have to wake up and grow up to the reality of the business of basketball.

All I am doing is presenting this fine forum with business scenarios that all NBA players must cope with when they are trying to max out their value to negotiate with team management. If the business considerations that affect the Raptors hurts your feeelings, then you shouldn't read my postings so thoroughly as you obviously do.

As for Bosh being a restricted free agent, that only applies if he doesn't play out the 5th year of his contract and rejects what the Raptors may be offering him. If I were Bosh I would demand top dollar if they intend to make him the foundation of the club. Why not, particularily since Garnett will be pulling down $20+M in the last years of his contract. "Love" has got nothing to do with it .... it's strictly business for the players .... !

As for the Raptor's salary structure it is a mess due to past management snafus. And Alvin may never play much again since his knee joints are almost bone-on-bone, Rafer at 28 is still "maturing??" while he pulls down a $25M contract, and Rose will fit in like a thorn if the Raptors get a group of fast and athletic new rookies. I call my assessment objective because it is founded on realistic future scenarios.

I am reluctant to say this about you, but I perceive that you are so "in love" with the Raptors that you are slightly deluding and unable to make any rationally objective assessment of the team's situation. Of course if you are only an optomistic fan who can see no wrong in the current Raptor situation, then you may not be able to think for yourself when it comes to discussing the Raptor's situation. It was not me, but you who attempted to personalize your attack on my opinions on this fine forum. (Perhaps you should put me on your Ignore Function .. as I suggested before and you declined.) 

You may see the Raptors as cherished entertainment that actualizes your manhood, and you are unable and obviously unwilling to broach the business aspects of the game. You are just one helleva good Solid Torontonian Raptor fan. Ciao ....


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Homie what are you saying? I'm not "in love" with the Raptors, whatever that means. Also, what does my age have to do with this? I've been on this board for 3 years, and I follow basketball as much as anyone else on this board. We're talking about the current state of the Raptors, not how good Rolando Blackman was in his prime. Age doesn't mean anything, there are a lot of people much older who know nothing about basketball... but I guess you keep their opinions in high regard because of their age.

You may think you're presenting the business side of the NBA, but even your perception isn't how it works in the NBA. Bosh won't take the 5th year option. Why? Because the Raptors can offer him the most money after his 3rd year, with an extension. I trust because of your age, you remember how the Raptors did the exact same thing with Vince Carter in 2001. Will his career in Toronto end like Vince's did? Hopefully not, we can't tell the future. But if we use your favourite comparison - Kevin Garnett, a player who stuck with a franchise that made even worse decisions than Toronto - I don't think he's going anywhere, at least in the near future.

Rafer is maturing as a starting point guard. Mitchell is maturing as a rookie coach. Next year might tell a different story, it might not. Either way the fact is that we're drafting a point guard, and not to replace Rafer right now, but to replace him a few years down the road. Rafer's not a top-10 point guard, but he gets the job done. As for his contract, a couple things. First of all, look who else we could have signed in the offseason, and look at how much they went for. Derek Fisher? $40 million. No thanks. Mike James? Not half the player Rafer is. I'll stick with Skip, thank you.

Anyway, in your opinion I'm delusional. But in the opinions of the rest of the board (of which a small percentage are 17 year olds), the only delusional one is you.

As for ignoring you, you've only been here for about a month... I'll give you time.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

great game i always love beating the sixers it alwsy means jus a little bit more to me! huge props go to marshall its great that the raps are pulling in some "good" attention for once! and also bosh had anuva solid performance hoffa gt 7 offensive bords and mo pete had a quality game.


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## swurv (Feb 26, 2005)

Monsterbosh, one thing to point out is that the 20 million Garnett contract is a holdover from the 'old days' and max contracts arent that much any more. After a long term with increases, it might become that much, but thats in a future with inflation and if the sports popularity/profitablity rises. Although maybe not. (NHL) Whatever the case, look around the NBA, we're .500 since Vince left and we can only get better. Our salary sucks, but its edging down(Marshall) and Bosh is getting better and better and better...... they gotta keep teh salary thing in control, but no way they gonna let him walk. if he becomes what we might be seeing him becoming, then a max at the current CBA levels (seeing what happens this summer) will be just fine, and we'll have no problem, I'm sure, ponying up.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

MonsterBosh - I wouldn't trade Bosh for Garnett either (KG is 29, Bosh is 20), but right now I believe Garnett is a better player. Bosh is good, but Garnett has him in shooting range, passing, and rebounding.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

RaptorsCB4 said:


> MonsterBosh - I wouldn't trade Bosh for Garnett either (KG is 29, Bosh is 20), but right now I believe Garnett is a better player. Bosh is good, but Garnett has him in shooting range, passing, and rebounding.


And defense, shot blocking, post game.

I mean there not comparable right now, KG is one of if not the best player in the league, whereas Bosh is working himself into top 20-30 players in the league. 

But I wouldn't trade Bosh for Garnett either.. just thought I'd extend the fact that KG is so far ahead of Bosh right now.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

But saying Bosh is on Garnett's level in his mind heightens the threat level that he is too good for us, right? Isn't that the point, to build him up to a point where staying with Toronto would become an impossibility? It's part of the programme.

I think some people in Toronto have become so jaded with the Raptors that they think-up worst case scenarios and then find avenues by which to realize them. Saying Bonner could go elsewhere is obvious, since he's a free agent, but in the context we're hearing about it recently it's like even he's too good for us.

Think we should go eat worms?


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!!!!!!!

Currently Bosh is putting up nearly the same numbers as Garnett and he is playing on a worse team when it comes to playing in the paint on both ends. Bosh is quicker than Garnett, who rarely drives to the basket from the perimeter as Bosh can do. If Garnett played on the Raptors instead of Bosh, all he would be is a 15/7/2 player because he would do a Carter holiday on us rather than work his butt of like Bosh is doing.

Garnett has peaked, while Bosh has even greater potential to play a complete game and be the best power forward in the NBA ... but maybe not on the Raptors.

If the new CBA reduces the length of contracts as seems likely, then the Raptors may only be able to hold Bosh for 3 or 4 seasons and then he will be a FA at age 24-25. It will be hard to hold Bosh then, unless the Raptors become a contending team after a complete rebuild. 

It's no use commiting your NBA career to a poorly managed non-playoff team if you have All-Star potential and a chance for really big $$$$$$$$$ with a US based team and the recognition that means so much for maxing out your career. Everybody knows that except fans who are "in love".

"Love" has nothing to do with it because it's a business decision .... plain and simple .... if it's not in Toronto then it will be elsewhere.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I see now that you're even planting seeds for us to worry about even if he does re-sign. He won't re-sign... twice! It's like as soon as he does re-sign, we can start the countdown again. Isn't that something wonderful to look forward to. That is, if you choose to.

You talk a lot about love (and _homer-ism_) but at the same time you are overvaluing Bosh to a crazy level, one that could only be the result of the epidemic you chastise others for. I think you're just being dishonest in an attempt to strike fear in the hearts of happy-go-lucky Raptors fans who have drawn your ire.

If you do actually think that Bosh is on Garnett's level, thereby making Bosh by far one of the best players in the League across the board, and if that's the basis for your argument, then I think you've crossed over into sensationalism.

I also think it's silly to assume that Bosh has to leave the team to become an All-Star, considering we've had two already, and that he was nearly good enough this season, anyways. Nobody's going to be sleeping on this kid because he has class, character, and skill. He'll get his due.

It's also a little strange that you think he will pursue more money elsewhere when Toronto is the team in the position to offer him more than anyone else. He's also in a position to be the face of basketball for an entire nation, which opens countless doors for endorsement contracts.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

MonsterBosh said:


> ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!!!!!!!
> 
> Currently Bosh is putting up nearly the same numbers as Garnett and he is playing on a worse team when it comes to playing in the paint on both ends. Bosh is quicker than Garnett, who rarely drives to the basket from the perimeter as Bosh can do. *If Garnett played on the Raptors instead of Bosh, all he would be is a 15/7/2 player* because he would do a Carter holiday on us rather than work his butt of like Bosh is doing.
> 
> Garnett has peaked, while Bosh has even greater potential to play a complete game and be the best power forward in the NBA ... but maybe not on the Raptors.


:laugh: Bosh is putting up nearly the same numbers as Garnett? Please.. Bosh's numbers, even post-VC trade aren't close to KG's. You can't just look at the scoring numbers.. look at blocks, rebounds, assists, fg%, steals.. kg is better at everything right now. 

First of all, if KG were on the raptors when VC was here, he would be the first option, and if anyone would be averaging 15/7/2 it would be Vince, not Garnett. But that isn't the case as KG would bring out the best in VC as he makes others around him better. 

Yeah, Garnett has peaked, but I'm not even sure Boshs' ceiling is as high as such a great player like KG. Is it because Minnesotas losing that your underrating KG here? It must be something. You seem so sure that Bosh will reach KG's level and is close to it right now when there are still a glute of PF's around the league that are far superior to him.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

vigilante said:


> :laugh: Bosh is putting up nearly the same numbers as Garnett? Please.. Bosh's numbers, even post-VC trade aren't close to KG's. You can't just look at the scoring numbers.. look at blocks, rebounds, assists, fg%, steals.. kg is better at everything right now.


And he does it while being double- and triple-teamed very often. Bosh hasn't shown the ability to overcome a double-team yet, at all, IMO.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

speedythief said:


> I see now that you're even planting seeds for us to worry about even if he does re-sign. He won't re-sign... twice! It's like as soon as he does re-sign, we can start the countdown again. Isn't that something wonderful to look forward to. That is, if you choose to.
> 
> You talk a lot about love (and _homer-ism_) but at the same time you are overvaluing Bosh to a crazy level, one that could only be the result of the epidemic you chastise others for. I think you're just being dishonest in an attempt to strike fear in the hearts of happy-go-lucky Raptors fans who have drawn your ire.
> 
> ...


Oh come off it speedythief .... All I am doing is speculating about the possible scenarios and outcomes of Bosh leaving the Raptors, namely:

- After signing a shorter term contract as limited by a new CBA thus giving him the early option of going elsewhere if the Raptors fail to rebuild the team adequately. That's partly why Carter left the Raptors.

- An inability to max out his career earnings with the Raptors because it is only a Canadian team which does not give Bosh the media exposure he needs for the US market and fans. If you are going to be an All-Star, there are new income streams to consider, and staying in Canada does not fully enhance those oportunities.

Everything I offer on this forum is well considered and reasonable to the thinking basketball aficionado. 

I only refer to the "love" factor because many on these forums are saying that Bosh "loves" to play in Toronto, when that is not a factor when NBA players determine their best options.

Of all people on this forum, why would you attack me with such comments as:

_....you chastise .... you're just being dishonest ..... (you)strike fear ..... you've crossed over into sensationalism ..... it's silly to assume ..... it's also a little strange ....!!!!_

For someone who has such a huge posting record as you, it's a bit disappointing to see you resorting to such subjective and personalized attacks and departing from reasoned discussion. Are your feeelings overwhelming your reasoning too???

I thought better of you, but now I don't know ..... What's bothering you .... spit it out .... you sound like the rest of them now ..... !!!!


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

*deleted post*


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

ok maybe u have made ok points to think about but this is absurd being in canada will not hinder his earnings at all u may remember a player called Vince Carter a raptors player who played in canada his whole career (until his move to new jersey) he was the most popular basketball player in the whole world not jus canada and the U.S and he played for the canadian-based raptors. he was given many, many endorsements with huge companies such as nike. so i dont understand this reason u give as to why bosh wouldnt wanna stay with the raptors. 



> An inability to max out his career earnings with the Raptors because it is only a Canadian team which does not give Bosh the media exposure he needs for the US market and fans. If you are going to be an All-Star, there are new income streams to consider, and staying in Canada does not fully enhance those oportunities


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

Bosh has said a few times he enjoys being more under the radar and doesn't need the same attention guys like wade and melo are getting.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

nevermind


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