# Bonner Done in TO?



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Basketball/2005/07/21/1141117-sun.html

Raps have the right to match, so this hardball is good. The Raps should not be the one out there with a huge offer. If a value offer is signed they match. It is good business. Pay as little as you have to.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Is Babcock the anti-Grunwald? He "may"(yet to be determined) be bad at drafting and making trades but he won't overpay for mediocre talent. Heck, based on talent even Rafer's contract is decent, it's just too bad he's such a headcase. 

I can see Bonner and his agent jacking up there demands due to the whole "fan favorite" thing. They probably feel the Raps are desperate to keep anyone that's liked by the fans. Good to see the Raps aren't just giving in for once.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

All this talk means nothing until a team steps up and signs an offer sheet for Matt that is above what the Raps are willing to match. Until then it is just posturing by the agent.

Babs is almost inviting offers though by saying publicly he has a price he won't exceed. Usually you say you will match ANY offer to discourage teams from making an offer at all. Even if you don't mean it.

The big mistake was not having an option year or two on Bonners rookie deal. How could that have hurt the team? And why wouldn't Bonner have jumped at an option for 1 mill per year when he was signing a 385k contract? Just stupid not to have an option year or two in there.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

restricted free agency is the greatest thing since sliced bread


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

If he goes i have to figure out a way to change my name.

I don't think this will really get interesting until another team makes out an offer sheet. Until then the agent and management don't have any pressure to make a deal.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> Babs is almost inviting offers though by saying publicly he has a price he won't exceed. Usually you say you will match ANY offer to discourage teams from making an offer at all. Even if you don't mean it.


I'd say that only works with max-type players.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

from 385 k he should not get a hefty pay increase a deal like 4 years 6 mill 2 mill bonus seems fair to me.

I dont want him to go b/c he seems like if he stays the first raptor rnd 2 draftee that will pan out to be something of cource the sdame can be said about pape.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

Bonner is going no where


he will be back - bonners agent is using the media to pressure Babs in to a deal. The fact is that he has not recieved any offers and when he does it will be matched - just like mo pete. 

It is all part of letting the league set his value.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

We didn't draft him, JYD, for the record.


I think the strategy they are using is a good one. Make him think that the Raptors want him only at their price. Then he negotiates a little bit of a better contract with someone else and we match it.

Matt Bonner is not going to get the same amount of money per season as Rafer Alston. I contend that he should make well under $3M to start.


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## Unknownone (May 14, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> ch, so this hardball is good. The ... player salary for good player performance...


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

Just throwing out a random idea, but why not let Bonner go and use the leftover MLE(after Sow and Ukic) on Steven Hunter of the Suns?

It is a calculated risk since you are potentially adding jsut another mediocre C. However, you are easing the logjam at power forward and getting someone who is a year younger that has potential to be our starting centre. TO will definitely miss Bonner's outside shooting and he is a good energy guy off the bench, but he has no remaining upside other than bench contributor.

The Raps are thin at C, and overloaded at PF. Hunter gives us shot-blocking which we don't have. With Joey Graham in the fold, it lessens Bonner"s need at backup SF. Hunter is still not great but he showed alot of improvement last year on defense. Plus, instead of defending the good C's out West, his numbers would improve just by being in the Centre depleted East. Would a 3-year contract starting at around 2 mil be out of line, with a 4th year team option(assuming we have that left from the MLE)? Does anyone know if Calderon's contract would be coming from the MLE?

Hunter 
+ points: More Shot-blocking, athleticisim, couldn't find any "soft" comments like Woods gets, led the league in FG% (alot of this could do with Nash, though)
- points: poor FT shooting, low basketball IQ (when he joined the league -don't know if he has improved this)


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> from 385 k he should not get a hefty pay increase a deal like 4 years 6 mill 2 mill bonus seems fair to me.
> 
> I dont want him to go b/c he seems like if he stays the first raptor rnd 2 draftee that will pan out to be something of cource the sdame can be said about pape.


CBA specifies that option years can only be at the specified increases - a max of 10% or 12.5% in the old CBA.

So Bonner didn't want to agree to an option for only $430,000 for year two. Because for sure the Raps would have suggested it.

The NBA reality is, that Bonner would either be worth more than that, or he have not been worth excercising the option. So no benefit to Bonner at all in accepting the option. 

Remember, he turned down more money from Europe to try the NBA.


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## Unknownone (May 14, 2005)

foul_balls said:


> It is a calculated risk since you are potentially adding jsut another mediocre C.
> 
> Hunter
> + points: More Shot-blocking, athleticisim, couldn't find any "soft" comments like Woods gets, led the league in FG% (alot of this could do with Nash, though)
> - points: poor FT shooting, low basketball IQ (when he joined the league -don't know if he has improved this)


He was a highly prized recruit @ DePaul under Pat Kennedy (who had left Florida State to head up to Chicago and resurrect a moribund Blue Demons program that had fared poorly in the wake of legendary coach Ray Myer's son Joey in the head role) and a teammate of Quentin Richardson, who emerged from as one of the most acclaimed from the Chicago high school ranks... 

That said, his career is what you've described - _another mediocre_ player - he was maddeningly inconsistent and really displayed little or no passion for winnin'; he reminds me of Vince in that respect: he enjoys what basketball affords him, but isn't committed wholesale to the game as a profession or towards winnin' a championship...

I wouldn't think that Babcock and company are interested in pickin' up someone of his questionable character and habits...


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## MentalPowerHouse (Oct 9, 2003)

The fact is we don't need Bonner, we have Villa to back up Bosh and Sow can play minutes there too. He is a nice bench player but that's all and signing him will only eat into our future cap room.


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

^^^ Expecting CV and Sow to pick up all the production lost to Donyell and Bonner would be ridiculous. Sow's offense i raw on a good day and i highly doubt CV will perform in his rookie year much better than Marshall did last year.

I like the guy(maybe not as much as my name suggests) so i am biased but he is definitely an asset to the franchise.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

We can't let Bonner go... we definitely need him. He's young, stretches the defense, and gives us a lot of versitility.


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> We can't let Bonner go... we definitely need him. He's young, stretches the defense, and gives us a lot of versitility.


otherwise, he don't really play good defense, can't rebound (tho his highlights comes from a few good ORbd), and couldn't really finish around the basket if there's a man on him. Sometimes doesn't have that confidence in jacking up a open shot while a player is running at him....


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Unknownone said:


> He was a highly prized recruit @ DePaul under Pat Kennedy (who had left Florida State to head up to Chicago and resurrect a moribund Blue Demons program that had fared poorly in the wake of legendary coach Ray Myer's son Joey in the head role) and a teammate of Quentin Richardson, who emerged from as one of the most acclaimed from the Chicago high school ranks...
> 
> That said, his career is what you've described - _another mediocre_ player - he was maddeningly inconsistent and really displayed little or no passion for winnin'; he reminds me of Vince in that respect: he enjoys what basketball affords him, but isn't committed wholesale to the game as a profession or towards winnin' a championship...
> 
> I wouldn't think that Babcock and company are interested in pickin' up someone of his questionable character and habits...


Hunter is a great defensive center in the terms of shot blocking. Meaning he is a good fit in a zone defense. Just don't expect him to score a lot. Expect him to earn more money then Bonner next season.


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## MentalPowerHouse (Oct 9, 2003)

I very much expect CV to replace Bonners production. If CV only averaged the 7/3.5 of Bonner I would be disappointed. No one is saying Bonner sucks and that he brings nothing, he is a nice a bench player but that is all he is. 

Also have to expect Bosh's production to increase as well. 

Joey Graham as a backup forward will also eat some of Bonner/Marshalls minutes and production. In any case he is not needed for the future of our team. Signing him to a 2-3 million dollar a year deal only cuts our future capspace which is priority number 1 behind our young players. 

Build our core through the draft with Bosh, CV, Araujo, Joey + whoever we pick next year... and reinforce that through free agency when the time comes.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

MentalPowerHouse said:


> I very much expect CV to replace Bonners production. If CV only averaged the 7/3.5 of Bonner I would be disappointed. No one is saying Bonner sucks and that he brings nothing, he is a nice a bench player but that is all he is.


But who Replaces Donny's production - that was supposed to be Bonners Role. Because they both bring the exact same amount of range/rebounding/ and defense to the table.

Also I expect bonners production to drop off next year - last year he was playing for his life <b>DID NOT WANT TO GO BACK TO EUROPE</b> in a big way. I think he'll have a hard time being as motivated once he has a multi-year contract under his belt.


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## MentalPowerHouse (Oct 9, 2003)

Bosh + CV easily fill all PF production. Graham fills backup SF production. Araujo + some left over Bosh and CV fills Center production.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

CV3 will likely be playing every thing from the 5-3 mostly 5 & 4, bulk of his minutes will be giving CB4 breathers, we need Bonner back to partially replace yell's production, Sow is a better defender than Bonner but is not threat to shoot, only a low post player.

Sign Bonner now re-worked from myside to a 3 year 5.725 mill deal with a 1.5 mill bonus

year 1
bonus
375,000
salery
425,000
= 800,000

year 2
bonus 375,000
salery 800,000
=1,175,000

year 3
bonus 375,000
salery 1,200,000
=1,575,000

year 4
bonus 375,000
salery 1,800,000
=2,175,000

___________
5,725,000

from our side cap friendly fear someone will really offer him 4 years 10 mill

3 yr 5.7 1.5 bonus is very fair for a medicore player but we all know the new age economics of the game have guys like Bonner making way more.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

We definitely don't need Bonner back but it sure would be nice. To finally get a good player with such character in the second round only to lose him after his rookie year wouldn't feel so good. But again, he's a depth role player and isn't vital to our success next year or ever.


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## Bronx (Jul 10, 2005)

I dont know why everyone is so high on Matt Bonner. Yea he can shoot the ball, but the only way he can shoot is if hes wide open. He cant mix it up downlow, or has the atheletic ability to create his own shot. I say hes Junk on wheels, and we shouldnt resign him or Sow. Instead use the MLE on a quality vet C or a good back up bigmen.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

> I dont know why everyone is so high on Matt Bonner. Yea he can shoot the ball, but the only way he can shoot is if hes wide open. He cant mix it up downlow, or has the atheletic ability to create his own shot. I say hes Junk on wheels, and we shouldnt resign him or Sow. Instead use the MLE on a quality vet C or a good back up bigmen.


Leaving all the intangibles aside, lets pretend for a moment that he is a 6'10" version of Steve Kerr (terrific spot up shooter, very little else). I don't agree with that assessment, but lets pretend. I still take that guy on my bench, in a heartbeat. 53% from the field, 42% from three point range? Absolutely.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I certainly haven't heard too many teams making offers for him. I would think this is because they know if unless they "overspend" (over 2.5 mill a season or something) it's going to get matched. I'd probably put money on him staying. Who, that even has a roster spot for him, has any kind of money to give him? Other than us of course.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

I agree with Budweiser_Boy, Bonner is an important piece to have off of the bench. He provides a good spark and can stretch the defense.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

So far we've heard that his agent hasn't talked to other teams, and no rumours have been popping up. I think we might be looking at everyone keeping their traps shut until Thursday when we can announce his re-signing.

Everyone thought we might lose Mo last summer. Same rhetoric about "wanting to make the right choices financially" from us and stuff about "value" and "respect" from the agent. We played it cool and kept him in the end. Let's see if the same thing happens here.


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## Primetime23 (Feb 3, 2004)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> We can't let Bonner go... we definitely need him. He's young, stretches the defense, and gives us a lot of versitility.


what? how does he give us versatility he is as much of a one dimesnsional player as there is in the league, he's Donyell with less athleticism he parks out inside the 3 point lines and fires away

given his mid range game is money in the bank, he looks akward driving to the hole and his drives usually result in a wild circus shot, very rarely ever goes up strong

2 million is the most i would offer him if i was babs maybe a little more because of the influence hes had on the team and the community but not too much more than that


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## MentalPowerHouse (Oct 9, 2003)

The news is that Bonner is asking 15 mil over 5 years... if we hadn't drafted CV I might have been ok with it but we can't have Bonner making that money as a back up PF when we need those minutes for CV.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

MentalPowerHouse said:


> The news is that Bonner is asking 15 mil over 5 years... if we hadn't drafted CV I might have been ok with it but we can't have Bonner making that money as a back up PF when we need those minutes for CV.


2.5/2.75/3/3.25/3.5

That's not a bad deal, really. It never hurts our cap. I wonder if another team will think him worthy of it.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

speedythief said:


> 2.5/2.75/3/3.25/3.5
> 
> That's not a bad deal, really. It never hurts our cap. I wonder if another team will think him worthy of it.


I think it is. 

First of all, I don't think his salary should ever go above 2 million. He just isn't that good of a player. And second of all, 5 years is too long.


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## dtron (Jun 11, 2004)

5 years is too long to give to a player like bonner
like he's great and all but i dont see him having a season like he had last year, i dunno whos going to give that contract to bonner, they would have to be pretty desperate to lock him up for more then a 3 year contract


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

What if the fifth year was a team option?

Honestly, consistency is a rarity in the NBA. I think if you can give a coach a player who he knows will do the same thing every time he's on the floor, you are giving him a good asset.

I don't see how Bonner's game will change. He is never going to draw a lot of attention. He's somebody you can put on the floor when Bosh is resting and he will help your offense from going stale.

The kind of money in this contract isn't a big deal. When you see guys like Dalembert getting max contracts for five or six years you start to understand that everybody spends--you just have to be sure of the guys you spend on, you know?


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## Unknownone (May 14, 2005)

kamego said:


> Hunter is a great defensive center in the terms of shot blocking.


This is a direct result of his athletic talent, not basketball IQ... What's the point of havin' him, who just relies on his athleticism to make plays as opposin' to playin' smart -> imagine if he actually had his head screwed on straight...


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

speedythief said:


> 2.5/2.75/3/3.25/3.5
> 
> That's not a bad deal, really. It never hurts our cap. I wonder if another team will think him worthy of it.


 those arent bad, i mean the length is a bit long but we know what we are going to get from him and he can really only make his D and his post moves better so i think its worth it


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

kamego said:


> Hunter is a great defensive center in the terms of shot blocking. Meaning he is a good fit in a zone defense. Just don't expect him to score a lot. Expect him to earn more money then Bonner next season.


Other things you can't expect from Hunter:
- To catch a pass
- To play any defense in the post
- To understand what to do on the floor


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

4 years 12 mill

2.3/2.5/3.6/3.6


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

vigilante said:


> Other things you can't expect from Hunter:
> - To catch a pass
> - To play any defense in the post
> - To understand what to do on the floor


:JeromeMoiso:


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> 4 years 12 mill
> 
> 2.3/2.5/3.6/3.6


 that's sounds like a fair deal to me

what I like about the guy is his intangibles. people seem to forget that he's the Raptors player rep, which says quite a bit about him... and not just because he's white... the players appears to respect his intelligence and his work ethics. 

I think he is a good locker room guy to have for the Raps and good for development for other rookies. He's the symbol of Sam Mitchell's coaching philosophy (work hard and you get playing time). He will probably become a leader for the Raptors when he becomes a "veteran", along side Bosh of course.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

:cheers:


wind161 said:


> that's sounds like a fair deal to me
> 
> what I like about the guy is his intangibles. people seem to forget that he's the Raptors player rep, which says quite a bit about him... and not just because he's white... the players appears to respect his intelligence and his work ethics.
> 
> I think he is a good locker room guy to have for the Raps and good for development for other rookies. He's the symbol of Sam Mitchell's coaching philosophy (work hard and you get playing time). He will probably become a leader for the Raptors when he becomes a "veteran", along side Bosh of course.


All good points....BUT

Like i mentioned before I think we have seen about all that Bonner can do. I see him improving slightly over last year. Lets not through a sack of money at another cheerleader... ala JYD.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Benis007 said:


> :cheers:
> 
> All good points....BUT
> 
> Like i mentioned before I think we have seen about all that Bonner can do. I see him improving slightly over last year. Lets not through a sack of money at another cheerleader... ala JYD.


 players like JYD are extremly valueble, i'm not saying we should have sign him to that much but every team needs a player who will go after every lose ball and wont give up on a play


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## Divine Spammer (Jul 11, 2005)

I don't see any problem with givin' Bonner up to 3mil/yr. 
He's a good player to have on your team, and 3 mil isn't too much money.
It's not a monster contract, it won't stuck us above the cap for years. 
I don't see anything bad in that kind of move.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I rather the Raps have him walk away and give that 3 mil/season to someone who will make more of an impact down the road when big contracts (see Rose, Jalen) come off the books.


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

Benis007 said:


> :cheers:
> 
> All good points....BUT
> 
> Like i mentioned before I think we have seen about all that Bonner can do. I see him improving slightly over last year. Lets not through a sack of money at another cheerleader... ala JYD.


 I don't think you can compare JYD to Bonner... the only thing comparable was their 'hustle'. 

Your "BUT" comment is unfound because:
- we are talking about $3M, not 6M.
- Raps can use another utility 3 pt shooter. He's not a Dell Curry, but he's got a shot.
- he has leadership qualities that not many ppl had. I believe the last player rep Rap had was Michael Curry... maybe someone can point out who was the player rep before that

$3M might be a bit too much for unproven talent... but what I agreed was that it would be the max I could swallow. he might end up less than that...


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Benis007 said:


> :cheers:
> 
> All good points....BUT
> 
> Like i mentioned before I think we have seen about all that Bonner can do. I see him improving slightly over last year. Lets not through a sack of money at another cheerleader... ala JYD.


the last thing i would call bonner is a cheerleader. you make it seem like he doesn't contribute anything when he's on the floor when it's totally the opposite.

and why are people calling bonner soft? was his game so invisible last season that it doesn't get noticed? do these same people remember the foul he put on kg? or the offensive rebounds he hustles through traffic to get?

i'm not saying the salary speedy drew out is what i would pay bonner for, but it's not that far off from what i think a player like him deserves. a player who is more than a stiff who can shoot as some would like to believe he is.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I just think that it is easy to throw money at a fan favorite. Alls I am saying is that if it turns into a bidding war for the Red Rocket, let him walk. 

Last season he was a solid role player on a sub-par team. I like the kid, but for $3 mil, lets be serious.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

Divine Spammer said:


> I don't see any problem with givin' Bonner up to 3mil/yr.
> He's a good player to have on your team, and 3 mil isn't too much money.
> It's not a monster contract, it won't stuck us above the cap for years.
> I don't see anything bad in that kind of move.


that is too much - I think the Raps offered him less than 1/2 that - but fair market value should be a deal like Hoffa got with the same options and pay grade.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

Quickly Perusing the "Storyteller's Salaries" Link

here are players making AROUND $3 mil next season.

Nene
Ben Gordon
Earl Boykins
Bob Sura
Mike James
Shaun Livingston
Dwayne Wade
Amare Stoudamire
Damon Jones
Iggie Igoudala

I know that many of these contracts are rookie deals and what not.. but seriously.. does Bonner belong among this list?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i think bonner deserves a starting salary of 2 mil in which the end of his contract (thinking 3 or 4 year) he'll get close or just above 3 mil.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Benis007 said:


> Quickly Perusing the "Storyteller's Salaries" Link
> 
> here are players making AROUND $3 mil next season.
> 
> ...


are you joking me? do players like stoudemire and wade even belong on that list? terrible, terrible logic you're going with here. how about gathering up actual FA's (i.e. damon jones) then make a list.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

trick said:


> are you joking me? do players like stoudemire and wade even belong on that list? terrible, terrible logic you're going with here. how about gathering up actual FA's (i.e. damon jones) then make a list.


tought to gather up many FA's when the date keeps getting pushed back...


ok fine.. Damon Jones is a good enough example. 

League Leading 3-point shooter in 3pt FGs/game

11.6ppg 2.8 rpg 4.3 apg 

compared to bonner's

7.2ppg 3.5rpg 0.6apg


is Bonner still a 3 million$ man?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i never once said bonner deserves a starting salary of 3 mil, so....


-------------> OUT


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Benis007 said:


> tought to gather up many FA's when the date keeps getting pushed back...
> 
> 
> ok fine.. Damon Jones is a good enough example.
> ...


 DJ is a free agent. We'll see how much money he'll make on his new contract.


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