# The State of the Lakers



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

This thread is for those Laker fans that would like to know what the Lakers organization plans to do to rebuild the team and what possibilities are out there. I’m also going to give a quick synopsis of what the Lakers organization has said and done over the past few months to give you an idea of where they plan to go with the team. 

Since the Shaq trade Kupchak and Buss have made it clear that they are looking to make this team younger, more athletic, and more uptempo. That was reflected in the trade for Odom and Butler (and a first rounder). In August, Lakers traded Payton and Fox for Jumaine Jones, Chris Mihm and Chucky Atkins. Mihm and Jones fit in well with the new status quo (youth and athleticism), while Atkins acted only as veteran filler to match Payton and Fox’s contracts. The near acquision of Marcus Banks (that was later amended to include Jones) further exemplifies the Lakers’ emphasis on speed and youth to rebuild around Kobe. 

Anyway, last month Kupchak was asked in a radio interview about the possibility of mid-season trades going down to address the Lakers’ skill set holes. Kupchak said he would better know what changes needed to be made after about 20 games into the season. Today’s Seattle loss was the 21st game of the season, so Kupchak should at least be brainstorming mid-seasons acquisitions. It was also mentioned in this radio interview that the Lakers would hold a press conference to address the “state of the Lakers organization” sometime after 20 games into the season. So except that later this week or next week. 

Now on to the players that could be up for grabs before the trading deadline expires in February.

PF/C: 

- Sam Dalembert: is reportedly unhappy with his diminished role with the Sixers this season. However, he has been keeping patient and optimistic, and if the most recent trend of O'Brien starting Dalembert at the 5 continues, Philly may well decide not to entertain any mid-season trades. 

- Tyson Chandler: has been heavily rumored to be on the block for weeks. Has been injured fairly consistently and the Bulls organization grows weary waiting for him to get better. Would address several vital defensive holes on the Lakers as a role player. But he’s an injury concern. 

- Kwame Brown: Eddie Jordan hasn’t been happy with Kwame’s attitude and the Wizards are supposedly looking to trade him for a 3. That would work out perfectly for the Lakers considering they have just about every 3 in the league, including a solid one in Caron Butler. There’s a good possibility this goes down. Depends whether Kupchak is willing to deal Caron after less than half a season, but Jumaine Jones has been so impressive (and is only a year older) that Kupchak may be aggressive and offer Butler for Brown. 

Pipedream: Magloire. Nothing rumored, but I’m sure he doesn’t like playing for arguably the worst team in the league. He’s also injured (hand), so if NO wants to trade him maybe his value goes down enough that he’s attainable with what the Lakers have. Still a very long shot. 

PG: 

- Earl Watson: Watson’s been playing well and it has been rumored that Jerry West is looking to move Williams and his fairly large contract elsewhere, so Watson may be totally out of reach. But he’s an UFA after this season and the I believe Memphis can’t offer him more than the MLE, so Lakers have a shot at him if he doesn’t sign a contract during the season. 

- Antonio Daniels: has no future with the Sonics after this season because he’ll be UFA and will want more money and minutes (he has said as much), and he won’t get those things with Ridnour and Flip on the team. Lakers can pursue him in FA this season too, if the Sonics don’t trade him before the deadline. 

- Larry Hughes: been playing well in Washington this season and the Wizards will probably want to keep him, but what are they going to do with Areana’s minutes? Wizards might be so impressed that they shop Areanas actually, though I haven’t seen any rumors about that. 

- Baron Davis: long shot, but he’s disgruntled in NO (and seems to be pouting on the IR right now) and was rumored to be interested in LA over the summer when he asked for a trade. He’s an LA native too.

Pipedream: Hinrich. Bulls are happy with him, would need to be offered equal talent at a position they need help at.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

UPDATE: ESPN Insider reports today that Ben Gordon is on the block. He'd be a nice addition to the Lakers, has potential and is nails from the outside. But wouldn't be worth Butler. 

It's Chad Ford, so take this rumor with a few bags of salt.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Whats with these rumors about Lamar being unhappy with the Lakers?

I think Butler or Odom has to be traded for a big, preferably Butler. His poor man D and consistency problems are bugging me. 

I would like to see at least one of the following traded as well- George, Slava and Brown 

Take the 5 or so guys on this team that don't belong and go after the two big holes. Which would be a PG and PF, both who can defend. Then move Odom to the 3 and allow him and Kobe to split the playmaking time. Bring Jones, Atkins, Vlade, Walton and whoever else is left, off the bench.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

That Odom rumor was started on LG.net by someone who misheard what was said. 

Besides, if Odom really were disgruntled just 21 games into a season and demanded a trade, that attitude wouldn't be right for this team anyway and I'm sure the Lakers would gladly trade him. But Odom doesn't seem like that kind of guy, he's the kind of guy that does the dirty work, and does it quite effectively I might add.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Gordon would be worth trading Butler. We could move Lamar to the 3 and start Grant. 

I heard again on lg that it was on the radio that Lamar wants out, and that his agent supposedly said it as well.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> Gordon would be worth trading Butler. We could move Lamar to the 3 and start Grant.


Gordon isn't good enough to trade away Butler for. Gordon is basically a better shooting, higher scoring version of Chucky Atkins right now. He can also play better D than Chucky, but he's really not a good defensive player. He can't set up teammates all that well, he's more of a shooting guard in a small body. But I'd trade Butler for Hinrich, and a draft pick if need be. 



> I heard again on lg that it was on the radio that Lamar wants out, and that his agent supposedly said it as well.


Naw, that was the same rumor and it was debunked.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Gordon isn't good enough to trade away Butler for. Gordon is basically a better shooting, higher scoring version of Chucky Atkins right now. He can also play better D than Chucky, but he's really not a good defensive player. He can't set up teammates all that well, he's more of a shooting guard in a small body. But I'd trade Butler for Hinrich, and a draft pick if need be.
> ...


You are definitley overrating Caron


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> You are definitley overrating Caron


Thanks for the detailed input.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks for the detailed input.


OK, I can break his game down for you.

Extremely non versatile. He plays one position and one position only. His lateral quickness is terrible for a Small Forward. He came out of college being hyped as a potential Defensive hound, I havent seen that . His assist to TO ratio is horrible even if thats not a specific duty of his. His potential is reached he will not get much better than he is now while Gordon will be a star in this league. Also to say Gordon doesnt know how to set his teammates up is an uninformed statement. He was always lauded at Uconn for that ability on top of being a dynamic scorer. He has more potential than Caron as a scorer an assist guy as well as a defender. Want more?


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Alright let me break this down. 

*Problems*- 

1. no pg. This to me is the most glaring problem. It puts the ball in Kobe's hands too much, it doesn't allow others to get involved in the play, and it makes Odom a great young talent a bystander.

2. pf/c rebounder or shot blocker. We are killing Odom. his offenseive game has gotten untracked because he's constantly fighting bigger and stronger guys down low for rebounds. Mihm is terrible on the boards. He won't go after the ball. On offense we don't feature anyone in the post its all perimeter. And we have no one who can block a shot and patrol the paint. 

3. Kobe Bryant. He's allowing odom to become a spectator. He's buddied up with Butler which is a mistake instead of Odom who could get us 25 a night given the chance to be really aggressive and play on the ball. Some say thats the coach's responsibility but I say its Kobe's also because he's supposed to be smart enough to see the value Odom could have on this team instead treats Odom like role guy. KObe needs to get off the ball and allow Odom the chance to grow. 

4. Rudy T has 2 plays. no offensive scheme and sub patterns make no sense. Doesn't ever like to go big with Grant at 4 , Divac at 5 and Odom at 3. Likes the speed line-up who can run but can't defend, rebound nor avoid to's. 


Trading Butler is probably right. No way in hell should we ever trade Odom it would be a huge mistake. 

Problem is Butler really doesn't have all that much value. He's a slasher who's jumper gets off track and whose knee's look a little kreeky to me. 

We are most likely stuck with what we have save for a minor deal here or there. 

No one wants Grant's salary, Butler's value is so-so. Odom should be untouchable, JJ, Walton, have minimal value. 

I think the one player we've showcased that could have some value is Mihm. If Philly wanted Mihm and someone else I'd trade Mihm for Dalembert straight up.

Dalembert is a walking double double guy. He's also a solid man defender. He'd be the perfect compliment to Odom and Kobe. 

We need Dalembert. 

Also if there was some way for us to get Nick Van Excel back here I'd do it. He can still score and penetrate, he can run a pro offense, and he gets a high volume of assists. 

He'd put Kobe off the ball and help his fg percentages go back up. 

I'm not sure though how Nick and Kobe got along. Plus I just love Nick's get out my face attitude, he's tough and clutch. He'd give us another player who wouldn't tighten up at the end of games. 

We should have about 3 more wins if it wasnt for end game errors.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

jazzy's post says it all.

I was watching the Wolves-Blazers game last night, and I thought the exact same thing about Van Exel. I would love it if we could get him. I know that Shaq didn't like him, but I think he and Kobe got along fine.

I really want to see this lineup

Vlade
Grant
Odom
Kobe
Atkins

A lot more conventional offense...it would let guys do what they are best at.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> jazzy's post says it all.
> 
> I was watching the Wolves-Blazers game last night, and I thought the exact same thing about Van Exel. I would love it if we could get him. I know that Shaq didn't like him, but I think he and Kobe got along fine.
> ...


I agree with that line-up. Rudy got too many of the wrong guys with too much responsibility. 

He needs to win with the Veteran guys it would make Kobe's job easier and allow Odom to physically dominate the sf's. 

Instead we're relying on hot shooting every night from someone to get wins, there's no method to it. 

We need to go big and run some of the offense through Divac in the high post and Odom on the block. 

Gimmicks aren't working. 

The fact that we're over .500 is a testament to Kobe with the way Rudy is using the line-ups.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Gordon isn't good enough to trade away Butler for.


Definitely not, but considering how high he was picked and his supposed "upside/potential", I think Paxson doesnt add a pick or a filler for Butler. I think if they do get traded, its gonna be a straight up trade, but Im hoping for a 2nd round pick which I think would be a fair deal. 

Gordon + 2nd rounder for Butler sounds fair. Probably wont get done though.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

Good thread, EHL, and good contributions from everyone.

I'm hoping New Orleans is looking at their situation in a similar way as the Orlando Magic saw their situation with McGrady -- a team with minimal talent outside of one superstar player. And we can see what making a trade has done for them (although it has been aided by G. Hill waiting in the wings). The Hornets are going no where, so Mitch needs to do all he can to try to get Davis in here. Still, they could do better than what we can serve up so this most likely won't happen.

In the meantime if there are no trades in the immediate future there needs to be some line-up changes. I'd love to see Vujacic get some playing time and Tony Bobbitt needs to come off the IL, because if I see Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown playing the 1 and 2 at the same time one more time (with Kobe on the bench no less!) I'm going to vomit.

Vlade needs to be playing as well. There's no excuse for all these DNPs. There's only one way to play yourself into game shape: playing in games.

Odom needs to be moved back to the 3 in the worst way. Playing post D on guys who outweigh you by 40 or more pounds drains the hell out of you, and he doesn't seem to be able to bang down low offensively against these guys either. Problem with this is Brian Grant is gimped out and Brian Cook will foul out in 10 minutes if he starts at PF. Hence the need for a new PF.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

If somehow we could get Baron and Chandler to play for LA, itd be great. Both of them are from the LA area and the environment would be great for them. 

I havent watched a lot of Bulls games, but from what Ive seen of Chandler, hes a great shotblocker and rebounder. Pretty intimidating defensive post presence. But how is his back to the basket game and mid range jumper? I know hes horrible at FTs. I guess if his offense is horrible he could be like a poor mans Ben Wallace as far as rebounding and shotblocking go???? But that would mean more plays drawn up for Mihm.


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## Fracture (Mar 31, 2004)

A Kobe and Davis back court would be great, but it's not happening, we don't have enough to give up for him. I've always liked Ben Gordon, I'd trade Butler for him, but LA also needs a big, badly. 

Why doesn't Vujacic play though? Lord knows the PG play can't get any worse. And cut Brown already.


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## venturalakersfan (Jun 10, 2003)

Good discussion. I agree with the need for a PG who can handle the ball and play defense. Gordon doesn't fit that role, I would rather have Duhon. And Davis is an injury waiting to happen. He has had major injuries in college and the last 3 years in the league. I would pass on giving up too much talent for him. Same with Chandler, though I would gamble a little more on him. Sammy D would be perfect, I don't know if the Lakers could pry him away from Philly.


Great thread on what the Lakers need, and no one mentioned the K word.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Gordon may have potential, but remember, Butler is the Lakers' most valuable trading piece and Gordon isn't a traditional point guard. He looks like he'll be a great scorer someday, but he doesn't fill the role the Lakers need, which is someone that can break down a defense, set up other teammates, take on dribbling responsibilities, and most importantly play defense on elite PGs like Parker and Billups. Gordon hasn't shown the ability to do any of that or even the potential to develop those things at a high level. If I go after any PG on the Bulls, it's Hinrich and only Hinrich. 



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> OK, I can break his game down for you.
> ...


Why would I want more, none of that is remotely accurate.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Paxson wouldn't trade Gordon for Butler, the Bulls already have Deng locking down the small forward position and Nocioni locking down the backup small forward spot. Both guys are good prospects and already good impact players. The Bulls need a shooting guard who can actually guard shooting guards. Thats if they can't find some serious interior defense through trade. 

So in summary, stop trying to steal our players. :upset: 

Hinrich and Chandler in the Lakers system would be scary though. Those guys would benefit greatly from having a guy like Kobe on the floor with them.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> The Bulls need a shooting guard who can actually guard shooting guards. Thats if they can't find some serious interior defense through trade.


Caron is a natural SG is he not? What if he played the 2 in Chicago????


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Gordon may have potential, but remember, Butler is the Lakers' most valuable trading piece and Gordon isn't a traditional point guard. He looks like he'll be a great scorer someday, but he doesn't fill the role the Lakers need, which is someone that can break down a defense, set up other teammates, take on dribbling responsibilities, and most importantly play defense on elite PGs like Parker and Billups. Gordon hasn't shown the ability to do any of that or even the potential to develop those things at a high level. If I go after any PG on the Bulls, it's Hinrich and only Hinrich.
> 
> 
> ...


You cant be serious. Its also been agreed in this thread and has been his knock in his career. You can believe what you want but those are facts. and HOF Caron doesnt have the neccessary speed or quickness to play the 2. Hes a 3 nothing more nothing less


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## radronOmega (Aug 1, 2004)

*re*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> OK, I can break his game down for you.
> ...


Actually he has played backup sg when Kobe's resting the past 3 or so games.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> You cant be serious. Its also been agreed in this thread and has been his knock in his career. You can believe what you want but those are facts. and HOF Caron doesnt have the neccessary speed or quickness to play the 2. Hes a 3 nothing more nothing less


You haven't watched Caron play at all. Caron's speed and quickness are just about the last possible thing he lacks as a player. 

Really now, give it a rest.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Lakers need to trade Odom or Butler for a fast pg or a PF that can rebound and block shots

Right now our best players are (by play this season)

1)Kobe
2(tie))Butler
2(tie))Odom
4)Mihm
5(tie))Cook
5(tie))Jones

Not mentioning George or Walton who are also SFs

3 of our top 6 players are small fowards, probably 4 of our top 8 or 9 players are smallfowards as well. To say we have a logjam would be an understatement.

We have needed a good defensive PF or PG for years and now our talent is finally spread out enough where we can trade to cover up these huge weaknesses.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> You haven't watched Caron play at all. Caron's speed and quickness are just about the last possible thing he lacks as a player.
> ...


Maybe you can defy the laws of physics i dont know. I know I cant. But he has a bum knee. He was shot in his kneecap. NO amount of rehabilitation would make him faster. You know what his strength was in college? He would bully and overpower other SF's or SG's. That hasnt happened in the pros. Hes a good player but to put him in the class you are is definitley overrating him. He is not as fast as the premier SG's and or SF's in this league PERIOD. 2ndly you cant tell me I havent watched Caron play when I have been following this guy up and down when he was in high school all the way up to this point. So you can have that. Sorry EHL maybe he has been playing better than he has but his entire time in this league it had been proven time and time again hes just not as quick as other 2's and 3.s


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Maybe you can defy the laws of physics i dont know. I know I cant. But he has a bum knee. He was shot in his kneecap. NO amount of rehabilitation would make him faster. You know what his strength was in college? He would bully and overpower other SF's or SG's. That hasnt happened in the pros. Hes a good player but to put him in the class you are is definitley overrating him. He is not as fast as the premier SG's and or SF's in this league PERIOD. 2ndly you cant tell me I havent watched Caron play when I have been following this guy up and down when he was in high school all the way up to this point. So you can have that. Sorry EHL maybe he has been playing better than he has but his entire time in this league it had been proven time and time again hes just not as quick as other 2's and 3.s


You're clinging to things that don't matter. I don't care if a bus ran over both his knees. Quickness and speed aren't his problems. I don't care if you watched him in high school, in the NBA his quickness and speed aren't issues. How many Laker games have you watched this season?


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

This is a good thread. I really wish that Mitchy boy would log on to BBnet. I think that reeling in Sammy D should be top priority, even though I doubt Philly trades him. Hinrich isn't going to happen. Ben Gordon is a possibility, as well as Chandler. Anyone heard from Jay Williams lately?  I think Caron is a decent trade asset. He certainly is not a premier player, but to suggest that he lacks athleticism and mobility is faulty. I have watched all but two games this season. I have absolutely had it with Rudy T. His offense BLOWS. Somebody stalk his *** until he learns how to run something besides pick n roll bs and isos. Tell him how to properly create a rotation. Tell him how to properly use Kobe and Odom. Why he is so oblivious? It took me 2 games of the preseason to realize how badly he uses some of his players.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

I don't have too much problem with Caron's speed and quickness, his acceleration seems very good, but I do see the problem with his lateral movement. And that is probably why he has had several guys go off on him this year. Mason gave him plenty in both games against the Bucks.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> I don't have too much problem with Caron's speed and quickness, his acceleration seems very good, but I do see the problem with his lateral movement. And that is probably why he has had several guys go off on him this year. Mason gave him plenty in both games against the Bucks.


I'd agree with that. But there are players in this league with little lateral quickness that don't get lit up because they're smart. Caron needs to play _smarter_ defense, mainly. Look at how well SFs are performing against the Lakers this season: http://www.82games.com/04LAL6C.HTM

Ouch.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Gordon may have potential, but remember, Butler is the Lakers' most valuable trading piece and Gordon isn't a traditional point guard. He looks like he'll be a great scorer someday, but he doesn't fill the role the Lakers need, which is someone that can break down a defense, set up other teammates, take on dribbling responsibilities, and most importantly play defense on elite PGs like Parker and Billups. Gordon hasn't shown the ability to do any of that or even the potential to develop those things at a high level. If I go after any PG on the Bulls, it's Hinrich and only Hinrich.
> 
> 
> ...


Gordon will be a better pro than Caron Butler. When he was a freshman Gordon, not Caron was UConn's most important player. They don't beat NC State in the 2nd round w/o Gordon. I'd take Gordon and Chandler over Odom or Butler anyday. This team needs a PG who can score and a big man who can rebound. I'd trade either one without hesitation. I don't know why you continue to cling to this notion that Hinrich is better than Gordon, but it's just not true.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Hinrich would be much better than Gordon playing next to Kobe. Hinrich is better at pushing the tempo, better ball handler, better rebounder, one of the best in the league when it comes to catch and shoot, and one of the best passers in the league. 

Gordon has a long ways to go to prove himself as a better point guard than Hinrich. He needs to show that he is more than a shooting guard in a point guards body. The Lakers don't need another scorer who needs the ball in his hands to be effective, like Odom. 

Gordon is coming along nicely, I'm so happy he is playing well, we need his scoring desperately, but he is a long ways from being a starting point guard. He just doesn't distribute or handle the ball well enough.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Gordon will be a better pro than Caron Butler. When he was a freshman Gordon, not Caron was UConn's most important player. They don't beat NC State in the 2nd round w/o Gordon. I'd take Gordon and Chandler over Odom or Butler anyday. This team needs a PG who can score and a big man who can rebound. I'd trade either one without hesitation.


Chandler would have to stay healthy to actually be worth Odom. And of course, Gordon would actually have to get more than 22 mpg on one of the worst teams in the league to be worth the Lakers’ most valuable trading piece. I don’t doubt Gordon becomes a better player than Butler, but how much better? 



> I don't know why you continue to cling to this notion that Hinrich is better than Gordon, but it's just not true.


He has been underwhelming for a PG in NBA so far, especially for a 3rd pick. He’s proven to be a great shooter and good scorer so far this season. Unfortunately for him, he is in reality a 6’3” shooting guard averaging 1.5 apg on 2.47 topg. Uh, yeah, not much of a point guard. 

Besides, I never said Hinrich was better than Gordon (though he is), I said he was the better point guard for the Lakers' needs. And right now the Lakers need someone who can D up, pass, shoot, and take on dribbling responsibilities, all of which Hinrich is perfectly capable of doing at a high level. Gordon clearly has no clue how to set up his teammates at the NBA level, and in general doesn’t seem to have good basketball sense, especially for a supposed “PG”. Gordon can’t defend elite and quick PGs like Parker or Billups (Gordon is actually a pretty good defender, but not good enough if the Lakers don’t have a big shot blocking presence in the paint). Gordon isn’t all that great of a dribbler or pick and roll player. Again, he’s just not a PG. 

With Kobe commanding double/triple teams, Hinrich is plenty capable of hitting wide open jumpers, especially from distance, like most good NBA point guards today and would flourish playing alongside Kobe. He’d probably average around 14-4-6 along with good defense playing on this current Laker team. Gordon might average 18 or 20 ppg playing on this team on a higher percentage, but he’d also average 2 apg and plenty of TO’s.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Johnny beat me to it. 

Anyway, I'm not saying Gordon can't get better. It wouldn't surprise me if he actually became a better _point guard_ and grew out of his current "Score first, do nothing else" mentality that lots of SGs seem to have these days. 

Unfortunately, the Lakers can't risk waiting on a PG to develop that much when his best attributes are things the Lakers don't need (scoring). And Gordon is 21, barely two years younger than Hinrich, it's not like there's any good reason to believe he'll improve so much more in the future that he eventually becomes better than Hinrich. Hinrich is playing out of position in one of the worst situations you can be in for a young point guard in the NBA (bad team, bad coach, organization in choas, etc.), and his stats are still up across the board this season (save for slight dips in FG%'s).


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## Spell Checker (Oct 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> I'd agree with that. But there are players in this league with little lateral quickness that don't get lit up because they're smart. Caron needs to play _smarter_ defense, mainly. Look at how well SFs are performing against the Lakers this season: http://www.82games.com/04LAL6C.HTM
> ...


I have read your posts in this thread and it reeks of homerism. I read Beez's comments on Caron and when he asked if you want more you said no because its not remotely accurate; yet you say right above one of his main comments about how he defends his opposition so in reality you strengthened what he was saying. His speed and lateral quickness does matter because hes beaten down the court by or driven past by his opposition quite often. It would be different if you said he has looked better this season but to totally trash a post in which you did earlier and then turn around and agree with it shows your knowledge on that player because it was a dead on review of that guys game.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spell Checker</b>!
> 
> 
> I have read your posts in this thread and it reeks of homerism.



It has nothing to do with homerism. If you had read any of my posts before, you'd know that I've hardly ever been high on Caron and have wanted him traded for a PG or PF for months. 



> I read Beez's comments on Caron and when he asked if you want more you said no because its not remotely accurate; yet you say right above one of his main comments about how he defends his opposition so in reality you strengthened what he was saying.


Read what I wrote more carefully. I said that you can still be a good defender if you have mediocre lateral mobility. No where did I agree with anything Beez was talking about before, and if I did it was a mistake. 



> His speed and lateral quickness does matter because hes beaten down the court


Being beaten down the court has nothing to do with lateral mobility. 



> by or driven past by his opposition quite often. It would be different if you said he has looked better this season but to totally trash a post in which you did earlier and then turn around and agree with it shows your knowledge on that player because it was a dead on review of that guys game.


This isn't English, so I'm really not sure what this means. Defense isn't all about lateral quickness, though that is a very important part of defense. In Caron's case, he's just not a smart defender; he overgambles, reaches, stands erect too often, etc. If he was polished he'd be a fine defender, even _if_ his lateral quickness was poor (it's more average than anything else, but hardly a problem). It'll take time for him to become a more polished defender, and when he does he'll be a good defender.


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