# Sources: Vince Carter to the Magic



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

> The New Jersey Nets are in serious talks with the Magic about a deal that will send Vince Carter to Orlando for Rafer Alston, Tony Battie and Courtney Lee, two league sources told ESPN.com.
> 
> The talks have reached a point that a deal could be done by the end of the day Thursday, according to sources.
> 
> ...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4287197


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

I really like Courtney Lee alot, but Vince with Jameer, Superman and Lewis would be pretty damn good


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## umopapisdn (Jun 5, 2009)

Odd that the Nets would all of a sudden now trade VC for garbage when they have been turning down offers left and right for awhile now.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Please God Let It Be So!!!!


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

umopapisdn said:


> Odd that the Nets would all of a sudden now trade VC for garbage when they have been turning down offers left and right for awhile now.


Courtney Lee is very far from garbage.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

umopapisdn said:


> Odd that the Nets would all of a sudden now* trade VC for garbage *when they have been turning down offers left and right for awhile now.


Everyone needs to realize that there are only 2 ways to trade huge contracts, either for lesser talent whose contracts equal that stars, or for another "star" with an equal contract, and with expirings being the rage now a days be prepared for more of these crap deals


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Dang, I dont know what to think right now. Hopefully Vince still has a few more good years left in him... :gopray: 

And hopefully we can snag someone else like Ryan Anderson or Sean Will help out our frontcourt depth...


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

umopapisdn said:


> Odd that the Nets would all of a sudden now trade VC for garbage when they have been turning down offers left and right for awhile now.


For garbage? Tony Battie is junk, I'll give you that but Rafer gives them a big time backup PG that they desperately need, and they get a great player in Courtney Lee who will be a good player in this league and a nice backcourt mate with Harris. Lee gives you good defense and three point shooting. Mind you this past season was his rookie year, and he was getting significant minutes guarding one of the best players in the league on the biggest stage.

I like this trade for both teams to be honest.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Trading a promising rookie while the rest of your core is young for an older Vince Carter who has less finals experience than Lee doesn't seem like a good move to me. 

They still are short a legit 4 which ended up being an issue vs the Lakers IMO. This is a lateral move at best for Orlando. 

Great move for New Jersey. I like the duo of Lee and Harris even if they might be the lightest starting backcourt out there now.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Up yours Cleveland


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

roux2dope said:


> I really like Courtney Lee alot, but Vince with Jameer, Superman and Lewis would be pretty damn good


Epic clutter.


I don't know why Orlando sees the need to do this, since they got to the finals this year and there is still plenty of room for growth for Nelson and Howard. The Elton Brand idea is much more sensible and would help Orlando a lot more.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Meh. Lee's ceiling isn't that high IMO. 

I like this move for Orlando.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

stevemc said:


> Trading a promising rookie while the rest of your core is young for an older Vince Carter who has less finals experience than Lee doesn't seem like a good move to me.
> 
> They still are short a legit 4 which ended up being an issue vs the Lakers IMO. This is a lateral move at best for Orlando.
> 
> Great move for New Jersey. I like the duo of Lee and Harris even if they might be the lightest starting backcourt out there now.


This.


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## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

Carter, Turkoglu, Nelson, Lewis, and Howard? That's a scary lineup.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Drk Element said:


> Carter, Turkoglu, Nelson, Lewis, and Howard? That's a scary lineup.


Turk would be gone if they did this


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Drk Element said:


> Carter, Turkoglu, Nelson, Lewis, and Howard? That's a scary lineup.


1 basketball.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> 1 basketball.


You didnt say that when the Spurs got RJ


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Howard gets his own looks off boards and olley oops, Lewis is a spot up shooter, Vince can do a little of everything and Jameer is more than capable of being a pass first pg, i dont think the magic would suffer at all


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Lee's cieling may not be extremely high, but he's a fantastic fit with Devin Harris in that backcourt. He doesn't need to dominate the ball to be effective, and he's a fantastic three point shooter (shot a little over 40% during the reg season) which is great because of Harris' elite driving ability. Lee is also a better (smaller) defender than Carter, even as a rookie.

Carter's the better player, and will surely have the better career, but Lee is a great piece of the puzzle for New Jersey. Not to mention Rafer will be a nice addition to the rotation. Though, I thought Keyon Dooling played pretty well last year.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

HB said:


> You didnt say that when the Spurs got RJ


PROBABLY BECAUSE THE ****ING SPURS DON'T HAVE THREE ONE-DIMENSIONAL WING CHUCKERS IN THE SAME ****ING STARTING LINEUP????????


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> 1 basketball.


Orlando's ball movement will take care of that.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

stevemc said:


> This?


I agreed with you.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

So the question is if Lee, Alston, Hedo > Vince Carter


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> This.


This?


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

stevemc said:


> This?


This


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm sad to see Courtney Lee go, because I know this guy is going be a really good player. But Vince Carter gives us that legitimate scorer that we need in crunchtime while Dwight can be Dwight defensively.

I think Vince back in Florida would really 'rejuvenate' him, because I still believe VC has a huge year or two left in him. Here's hoping he busts out like he did when he got traded to the Nets.


I guess this might mean we're going to maybe sign and trade Hedo for a PF?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Lee is never going to reach the level of a Vince Carter. Lets be real. This is a great deal, because they could not bring back Alston, Johnson and Nelson next year. I like the deal for both teams, although they would need to bring back Gortat or some facsimile.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

magic should do everything possible to replace lee with reddick 

if the nets are desperate enough to unload carter and his hefty contract, they'll settle for JJ.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> PROBABLY BECAUSE THE ****ING SPURS DON'T HAVE THREE ONE-DIMENSIONAL WING CHUCKERS IN THE SAME ****ING STARTING LINEUP????????


KANYE slow your roll, and it sounds like you dont know what you are talking about, after all Hedo and Vince are two of the best passing guard/forwards in the game. One dimensonal? Hardly


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

GregOden said:


> Lee's cieling may not be extremely high, but he's a fantastic fit with Devin Harris in that backcourt. He doesn't need to dominate the ball to be effective, and he's a fantastic three point shooter (shot a little over 40% during the reg season) which is great because of Harris' elite driving ability. Lee is also a better (smaller) defender than Carter, even as a rookie.
> 
> Carter's the better player, and will surely have the better career, but Lee is a great piece of the puzzle for New Jersey. Not to mention Rafer will be a nice addition to the rotation. Though, I thought Keyon Dooling played pretty well last year.


I agree, I think Courtney Lee is a excellent fit next to Devin Harris. VC and Harris isn't really a good fit because Harris likes the ball in his hands, so now you replace Vince with a excellent finisher, energy guy and defensive stud in Lee. 

New Jersey is building a good young team with those two along with Brook Lopez, i'm sure they'll be back in the Playoffs this year.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Rotoworld is saying its official:


> Various sources are reporting that Vince Carter has been traded to the Orlando Magic for Rafer Alston, Tony Battie and Courtney Lee.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Is there a craigslist Orlando?


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

cv31 confirmed it on twitter... good trade for the magic i think.. unless courtney lee turns into a star (possibility)


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

I think this means hedos walking .. read a twitter 

PDcavsinsiderSome deal. The Magic's payroll for next season and 2010-11 now deep in tax plus they owe 100mm for arena. Don't see Hedo fitting, we'll see.half a minute ago from web


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> I agree, I think Courtney Lee is a excellent fit next to Devin Harris. VC and Harris isn't really a good fit because Harris likes the ball in his hands, so now you replace Vince with a excellent finisher, energy guy and defensive stud in Lee.
> 
> New Jersey is building a good young team with those two along with Brook Lopez, i'm sure they'll be back in the Playoffs this year.


So you're saying that Harris/Lee is a better backcourt duo than Harris/Carter ?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

HB said:


> KANYE slow your roll, and it sounds like you dont know what you are talking about, after all Hedo and Vince are two of the best passing guard/forwards in the game. One dimensonal? Hardly


Both of them are scorers first and foremost, and are all too happy to take as many shots as possible. Having both of them out there with someone like Rashard, the chucker's chucker, is bound to be a clutteriffic mess.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> I agreed with you.


Thanks, I can't blame you 

Seriously though, this leaves the Magic even less depth in their front court with out Battie. They can't count on DHoward to do all the work in the paint especially in the playoffs where it really comes down to individual match ups more than ever.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Both of them are scorers first and foremost, and are all too happy to take as many shots as possible. Having both of them out there with someone like Rashard, the chucker's chucker, is bound to be a clutteriffic mess.


Padowan, do you realize RJ and Devin Harris both had career years playing with VC?


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

croco said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4287197





Spaceman Spiff said:


> Up yours Cleveland


Lmao, I was thinking the same exact thing. If this goes through, what an F U!


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

> Vince to Orlando?
> 
> 4:15 Update
> 
> ...


Other trades?



DANNY said:


> magic should do everything possible to replace lee with reddick
> 
> if the nets are desperate enough to unload carter and his hefty contract, they'll settle for JJ.


On ESPN they say VC + Ryan Anderson are in the package. But VC + Anderson 4 Battie + Skip + Lee doesnt work in trade checker.... I think if you replace Lee with JJ the trade would work.... Maybe if we gave them JJ + a future 1st instead of Lee they would do it??


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

If Turkoglu is leaving, then that helps a bit. I still think this was an unnecessary move. I mean, is a radical decision like this (and indirectly casting off Turkoglu in the process) really a good move, considering you are the reigning eastern conference champs whose two best players have plenty of room for growth and improvement?


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

croco said:


> So you're saying that Harris/Lee is a better backcourt duo than Harris/Carter ?


From a chemestry standpoint, yes. Lee doesn't need to score to be effective, he can run around off the ball and get out and run with Harris. Plus we know he's a very good defender and plays with alot of energy. 

Both of these guys are young, and could develop some serious chemestry.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Game3525 said:


> Lmao, I was thinking the same exact thing. If this goes through, what an F U!


How is that an F U? Is Vince going to lock down Lebron all of a sudden?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

stevemc said:


> How is that an F U? Is Vince going to lock down Lebron all of a sudden?


Vice versa.


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## anru321 (Jul 13, 2002)

Prolific Scorer said:


> I guess this might mean we're going to maybe sign and trade Hedo for a PF?


That would be perfect. Hedo for Boozer would be awesome but unrealistic. Orlando would have a fantasy squad out there. Hedo for David Lee or Charlie V? Al Harrington and Frye could spread the floor for Dwight.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

IMO this makes a Celtics trade almost certain, since I'm not sure Danny is ready to get scalded by Dan Shaughnessy and millions of drunken Patriot fans/Celtics dunces for not responding to the almighty Carter and Shaq trades, especially after taking quite a few pot shots at Rondo through the media.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

I hope this trade doesn't go down, we want young promising players and I dont see Courtney Lee being nothing more than a role player. When we traded Kidd we got back a young promising PG in Devin Harris, if we are trading Vince we need a young quality player that can be a building block for the future, and I dont see Lee being nothing more than a role player at best. Its best that the Nets wait to see if any better deals come up.


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

Does this make the magic better? If they sign Hedo obviously.. but giving up Lee and Hedo for Carter? Hedo absolutely destroys the cavs with matchup problems, whereas Carter has never really done well against them..


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

I guess Orlando got tired of playing JJ Dickless...anyone remember that _interesting_ Finals lineup Orlando had when they relegated all their PG's to the bench with Dickless playing in the fourth? To his credit though he didn't play as bad as I thought he would.

Orlando's biggest lineup problem are against quality bigs and VC doesn't have much to offer there. Hopefully for Magic fans Jameer Nelson won't get injured again since Rafer did well in his stead.

Its always refreshing to see teams serious about being contendors now rather than later though. So many talented players have wasted their primes on lackluster rosters.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

croco said:


> Orlando's ball movement will take care of that.


No it won't. To be brutally frank, as a Celtics fan I pray they bring back Turkey Glue as it would essentially mean that Dwight Howard would go months between field goal attempts. As a Dwight fan I pray that they let Turkey Glue go. No amount of "ball movement" allows three high usage players to function well inside the same offense. That's before factoring in touches for 'Shard & Dwight.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

I guess its official


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> From a chemestry standpoint, yes. Lee doesn't need to score to be effective, he can run around off the ball and get out and run with Harris. Plus we know he's a very good defender and plays with alot of energy.
> 
> Both of these guys are young, and could develop some serious chemestry.


Essentially it means that Lee is a better player than Carter which is quite a statement. Screw better fits when you have a talent differential as huge as in this case.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

It's a done D. 

Good chance that Hedo is probably gone after this move. He's obsolete. Magic have options. We may look to s&t him to Portland for Outlaw/Webster or some kind of package. We can also look to add a PF like McDyess with the MLE. No telling what we may do with Gortat.

Meer/AJ
Carter/MP/JJ
Shard/Outlaw
Dyess/Anderson/Shard
Dwight/Foyle

Championship?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> No it won't. To be brutally frank, as a Celtics fan I pray they bring back Turkey Glue as it would essentially mean that Dwight Howard would go months between field goal attempts. As a Dwight fan I pray that they let Turkey Glue go. No amount of "ball movement" allows three high usage players to function well inside the same offense. That's before factoring in touches for 'Shard & Dwight.


Exactly.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

stevemc said:


> How is that an F U? Is Vince going to lock down Lebron all of a sudden?


Yeah, I am exaggerating but it does give the magic more firepower at the guard spot, it only helps if they keep Hedo though.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

What an exciting offseason.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

oh man, cavs and magic, and spurs are going to be greatly improved. 

does this mean that the west conference will be just as strong as the east coast? you could argue the eastern conference will be stronger.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

croco said:


> Essentially it means that Lee is a better player than Carter which is quite a statement. Screw better fits when you have a talent differential as huge as in this case.


No it doesn't.


Certain players style fit in better with other certain player's style. Just like certain teams matchup better with certain teams (Orlando vs. Cleveland for example)

With a guy like Harris who has the ball in his hands as much as he does, Courtney Lee's skillset and playstyle fits him very well. And like I said they're promising young studs who will only get better with age.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

gi0rdun said:


> What an exciting offseason.


I agree, offseason is of to a great start!


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## umopapisdn (Jun 5, 2009)

Pacers Fan said:


> Courtney Lee is very far from garbage.


Not that far. He's a career role player.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

If Hedo Turkoglu was this almighty god who supposedly led us to the NBA Finals, why doesn't the Magic's front office think so?


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> No it won't. To be brutally frank, as a Celtics fan I pray they bring back Turkey Glue as it would essentially mean that Dwight Howard would go months between field goal attempts. As a Dwight fan I pray that they let Turkey Glue go. No amount of "ball movement" allows three high usage players to function well inside the same offense. That's before factoring in touches for 'Shard & Dwight.


Howard's role will not change much, neither will the offensive gameplan as long as he doesn't have a reliable post game. I'm positive they will find a way to work Carter into the offense without sacrificing touches for Howard. This is the same team that led the league in defensive efficiency with Lewis, Turkoglu and Nelson in the starting lineup after all. They found a way to swing the ball arond the perimeter, find the open man and keep the shooters happy. When it comes to inventing and developing game plans and strategies, their coaching staff usually gets the job done.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> No it doesn't.
> 
> 
> Certain players style fit in better with other certain player's style. Just like certain teams matchup better with certain teams (Orlando vs. Cleveland for example)
> ...


Mario Chalmers is a better fit alongside Dwyane Wade than Tony Parker according to that logic, but which duo would you rather want to have ?


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

is vince more clutch than hedo though? cuz hedo was hugely clutch for the magic.

despite shard's horrible contract, the magic are in a really good financial position if they get carter (and hedo opts out).


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

croco said:


> Mario Chalmers is a better fit alongside Dwyane Wade than Tony Parker according to that logic, but which duo would you rather want to have ?


Well first of all I didn't say Lee was a better player than Vince, but that he could become a better fit.

With Vince Carter in Orlando he can go back to being the man offensively. 


and Vince Carter has hit more gamewinners throughout his career than Hedo has.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Lee hurts to lose. The guy really has a Rip Hamilton/Jason Terry type potential, combined with Bruce Bowen type defense. A really valuable guy to have and New Jersey will love him. Sure he's not on VC's level, but like ive been telling you ppl on here for awhile, this kid can play. Remember, he was only a rookie. As soon as he bulks up a little bit and improves his strength, this kid will be one of the top notch role players in the league(ala Terry, Rip).


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

what? bruce bowen type defense? weren't the lakers picking on lee in the finals?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

afobisme said:


> is vince more clutch than hedo though? cuz hedo was hugely clutch for the magic.
> 
> despite shard's horrible contract, the magic are in a really good financial position if they get carter (and hedo opts out).


Is Vince clutch? Is that really a question??


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

I don't even recall Vince playing at an insane level this past season, except against Raptors. The guy is done. It's more like All-Star (Dwight, Jameer) deal to me than anything else.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Blue Magic said:


> Is Vince clutch? Is that really a question??


Yeah, Vince has been pretty clutch. Hit some big shots in NJ if I remember correctly. Hopefully the Magic can keep both Hedo and Vince.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The NBA is becoming a have and have-not league which is great for the league as a whole.

Orlando, Cleveland, Boston, Washington are the top 4 teams in the East IMO health permitting.
Los Angeles, Denver, San Antonio, Houston are the top 4 teams in the West IMO health permitting.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

Vince will be the 2nd option automatically. Good move by Orlando, this was what they needed a good 2 guard who can create shots and score. Now they need to fill the PF spot by acquiring a solid big that can rebound, play defense, and finish at the rim ala Kendrick Perkins type.


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## Seanzie (Jun 9, 2003)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> Both of them are scorers first and foremost, and are all too happy to take as many shots as possible. Having both of them out there with someone like Rashard, the chucker's chucker, is bound to be a clutteriffic mess.


I hate to admit it, but your post made me stop reading the entire thread, haha.

First of all, you are completely off base. You obviously have no real perspective on either player. Rashard is a chucker to an extent, but the offense requires him to be. However, he's not one-dimensional. Watch the Finals again.

Secondly, you call Hedo a chucker. Hedo, a chucker? Get the **** out of here. The man is a playmaker's playmaker. In the fourth quarter, the ball is in his hands and he's looking to create for others.

Vince is a chucker sometimes, but when he's focused and on a winning team, he plays D, he rebounds, and he handles the ball very well.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> Well first of all I didn't say Lee was a better player than Vince, but that he could become a better fit.
> 
> With Vince Carter in Orlando he can go back to being the man offensively.
> 
> ...


Carter is the better player by far, therefore he is the better fit.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Blue Magic said:


> Other trades?
> 
> 
> 
> On ESPN they say VC + Ryan Anderson are in the package. But VC + Anderson 4 Battie + Skip + Lee doesnt work in trade checker.... I think if you replace Lee with JJ the trade would work.... Maybe if we gave them JJ + a future 1st instead of Lee they would do it??


 Why would the nets do that? Stop trying to make lopsided trades.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lost in all this is the fact that Ryan Anderson is actually a solid bench player.


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## Seanzie (Jun 9, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Lee hurts to lose. The guy really has a Rip Hamilton/Jason Terry type potential, combined with Bruce Bowen type defense. A really valuable guy to have and New Jersey will love him. Sure he's not on VC's level, but like ive been telling you ppl on here for awhile, this kid can play. Remember, he was only a rookie. As soon as he bulks up a little bit and improves his strength, this kid will be one of the top notch role players in the league(ala Terry, Rip).


I agree 100%. Lee doesn't have that "takeover" ability ala the superstars of the league, but damned if he doesn't contribute all over the place.

I love the kid, and I will be sad to see him go.

That said, VC gives us the "takeover" scoring wing player we need. 'Shard is good for burst scoring, but he doesn't really OWN games.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

afobisme said:


> what? bruce bowen type defense? weren't the lakers picking on lee in the finals?


Yes. In game 1 he played bad, but after that his defense was terrific. A rookie starting in game 1 of the NBA Finals is pretty nerve wrecking im sure, and Kobe made him look bad. But Kobe can make alot of people look bad. But for a rookie, Lee was our best perimeter defender all season. You should pay attention to the kid next season. Sure he got bullied on by Kobe, but like I say, once he adds a little bulk and strength and gains abit more experience, he's gonna be a terrific player.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

croco said:


> Carter is the better player by far, therefore he is the better fit.



Carter isn't a good fit in New Jersey anymore no matter how good he is because they've already started the youth movement by trading RJ and Kidd, and building around Lopez and Harris. Lee is a better fit.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

HB said:


> Lost in all this is the fact that Ryan Anderson is actually a solid bench player.


I agree, Ryan Anderson killed the Bucks this year, he may be a little inconsistant but i think he is a very solid rotation player


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I'd almost venture to say Anderson is just as good as Lee, but he never got the type of exposure Lee has. He's 6'10, shoots the 3 ball well and rebounds well. The Magic will like Anderson no doubt.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Tragedy said:


> Why would the nets do that? Stop trying to make lopsided trades.


LOL

If they were desperate to dump salary for 2010 it would make a little sense? I know it wasn't likely, but that was before I knew that we were getting Anderson in a seperate trade... 

But, I ask myself... Why would phoenix take Ben Wallace and Pavolich for Shaq when all three of them are expirings? They trade the clear cut best player in Shaq, to downgrade _significantly_ in talent and get no future prospects just to save a few bucks?? Miracles happen buddy.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm not going to judge this trade until I see what else the Magic do, it's obvious there is more to come. What will be done with Hedo, will he walk, re-sign or be signed and traded? What are they going to do to get frontcourt depth if they don't sign and trade Hedo? If Hedo walks, does Gortat come back into the picture?

Basically, if this trade is giving up Lee and expiring contracts to replace Hedo with Carter, I'm not too thrilled. If it's to add another piece in hopes of keeping Hedo or at least getting something for Hedo I'm all in favor of it. I think Carter is a great fit in Van Gundy's offense, he's obviously a very capable shooter and playmaker for the drive and kick offense. This is good stuff if the Magic are willing to spend the money and complete this off season with a loaded team.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

HKF said:


> The NBA is becoming a have and have-not league which is great for the league as a whole.
> 
> Orlando, Cleveland, Boston, Washington are the top 4 teams in the East IMO health permitting.
> Los Angeles, Denver, San Antonio, Houston are the top 4 teams in the West IMO health permitting.


Hmm interesting you don't have Utah in your list.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> Carter isn't a good fit in New Jersey anymore no matter how good he is because they've already started the youth movement by trading RJ and Kidd, and building around Lopez and Harris. Lee is a better fit.


I have never considered age to be a factor in the discussion, if you do that obviously changes the outlook.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

HB said:


> I'd almost venture to say Anderson is just as good as Lee, but he never got the type of exposure Lee has. He's 6'10, shoots the 3 ball well and rebounds well. The Magic will like Anderson no doubt.


I don't know if I'd say he's almost as good, but Anderson is more than just a throw in. I like the fit with him coming to Orlando as well.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

HB said:


> I'd almost venture to say Anderson is just as good as Lee, but he never got the type of exposure Lee has. He's 6'10, shoots the 3 ball well and rebounds well. The Magic will like Anderson no doubt.


Yeah, I think the Magic were eyeing Anderson in the draft last year and really liked him... It's funny how Anderson was the pick before Lee, and now the nets are trading us Anderson + VC for essentially Lee. Pretty ironic.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

So this is a move that pretty much says Hedo is gone? Good move by the Magic, but if Hedo ends up staying this means less touches for Howard?


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

Good move for Orlando I hope it's true.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

S2theONIC said:


> So this is a move that pretty much says Hedo is gone? Good move by the Magic, but if Hedo ends up staying this means less touches for Howard?


Not sure, really. If it is it's not a terrible move because Vince brings a playmaker, isolate at the end of games type guy to replace Turkoglu. It won't mean less touches for Howard, the Magic play inside out either through dumping it in to Howard or penetrating (usually on a Howard and _______ pick and roll).


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

stevemc said:


> How is that an F U? Is Vince going to lock down Lebron all of a sudden?


No. Cleveland has been trying to trade for Winsanity for more than a year, and New Jersey has been refusing (probably afraid that having legit second option would make Cleveland unbeatable and ruin their LeBron fantasies). Now they've essentially given him away to one of Cleveland's primary competitors in the East. That's a huge FU.



croco said:


> Howard's role will not change much, neither will the offensive gameplan as long as he doesn't have a reliable post game. I'm positive they will find a way to work Carter into the offense without sacrificing touches for Howard. This is the same team that led the league in defensive efficiency with Lewis, Turkoglu and Nelson in the starting lineup after all. They found a way to swing the ball arond the perimeter, find the open man and keep the shooters happy. When it comes to inventing and developing game plans and strategies, their coaching staff usually gets the job done.


If Carter, Nelson, and Turkey Glue are lining up on the perimeter, there won't be _any_ touches for Howard, and no developing post game. Those guys are all high usage players, someone is going to have to stop shooting to keep them happy, and it probably won't be 'Shard.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

croco said:


> I have never considered age to be a factor in the discussion, if you do that obviously changes the outlook.


Not just age, but look at it... 


They have their cornerstones in Lopez and Harris. I'm pretty sure those two are going to be their goto guys for the next decade. What is Vince Carter going to do? If New Jersey contends for a title, it's not going to be anytime soon...so Vince just plays 3rd or 4th fiddle and gets old in New Jersey, and by the time Lopez and Harris (with a legitimate supporting cast) are ready to compete for a ring, Vince is 36-37 years old and ready to retire?


So they get a nice young player in Courtney Lee who doesn't need to score, or have the ball in his hands. Like I said he can just play off the ball and guard the opposing team's best wing, and more importantly not prohibit the ball from being in Harris' and Lopez's hands and allowing them to be New Jersey's franchise players.


And New Jersey was smart, they trade VC to Orlando instead of Cleveland. They aren't trying to help the Cavaliers keep LeBron James.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

hobojoe said:


> Not sure, really. If it is it's not a terrible move because Vince brings a playmaker, isolate at the end of games type guy to replace Turkoglu. It won't mean less touches for Howard, the Magic play inside out either through dumping it in to Howard or penetrating (usually on a Howard and _______ pick and roll).


I agree. I also believe this means Hedo is gone. Turk wants too much money and Vince is an upgrade IMO from Turk. The Magic also get a good player in Anderson but lose out on defense and a very good young prospect in Lee.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Great trade for the Magic, and they'll be quite powerful and deep if they resign Hedo. Not getting Dwight touches won't matter if his post game never improves. Then again, he also has to demand the ball more.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

i dont know which team i like more, Magic or Cavaliers


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Prolific is the only one that has touched on this, but I have been wondering why Thorn did this trade. Very simple, he doesnt want Bron staying in Cleveland. Lets not fool ourselves, Shaq aint doing it there. Bron is more likely to leave now. Thorn's waiting on the wings, the guy is a genius.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Lee will be better than Vince Carter. I'd say Lee is better than Vince Carter now.

Nets won the deal.*


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Pacers Fan said:


> Courtney Lee is very far from garbage.


I know, anyone that posterizes lebron 2 times in one week isn't garbage, LOL.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

HB said:


> Prolific is the only one that has touched on this, but I have been wondering why Thorn did this trade. Very simple, he doesnt want Bron staying in Cleveland. Lets not fool ourselves, Shaq aint doing it there. Bron is more likely to leave now. Thorn's waiting on the wings, the guy is a genius.


He's not the only GM that's cutting space for 2010. Half the league is doing this. How does this make him a genius?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Thank you Jesus


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Marcus13 said:


> Thank you Jesus


I think you mean Ray Allen.


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## Jesukki (Mar 3, 2009)

Keeping VC away from the cavs and sending him to Magic? Magic defeating Cavs in ECF and then Lebron leaves Cavs and go's to Nets.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

So people would really rather have Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson than Courtney Lee and Idiot Turkeyglue?


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

sMaK said:


> He's not the only GM that's cutting space for 2010. Half the league is doing this. How does this make him a genius?


Those GMs/Teams aren't eventually moving to Brooklyn, and don't have Jay-Z as part ownership.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Lebron is not going to the nets anymore people. Get a clue.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

mo76 said:


> Lebron is not going to the nets anymore people. Get a clue.


That is nowhere near a guarantee, especially if Shaq has the same impact with the Cavs as he did with the Suns.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

If Vince goes to the Magic, I think it's a bigger move than Shaq going to the Cavs.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

If the Cavs land Sheed it's a wrap for the East. This deal wont matter and Lebron will stay in CLE.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Waits for Boston to make a TERRIBLE move just to try and keep up*


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Marcus13 said:


> *Waits for Boston to make a TERRIBLE move just to try and keep up*


BOS doesn't need to make a major move. KG/Powe coming back healthy has them back to contending. They just need to add a couple of solid role players and they are up there with ORL and CLE. Heck, if they sign some real solid role players off the bench I would put them above CLE and ORL to come out the East.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Lol, I honestly cant wait to hear Bill Simmons criticize the **** out of Orlando for making this trade. He is soo predictable that you know it's coming. The hate is inevitable. He cant control himself. :laugh:


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

I don't think Boston needs to at all either...I just really think they are going to overreact to the playoff outcome and these deals today by both Cleveland and Orlando and do something stupid


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

S2theONIC said:


> If the Cavs land Sheed it's a wrap for the East. This deal wont matter and Lebron will stay in CLE.


What if Magic land McDyess who can check Sheed, though? Or better yet, what if the Magic land Sheed?? 

If Cleveland lands Sheed their team will still be ancient. Even if this motivates Bron to re-sign with them, how many good years do Shaq & Sheed have left?? One, maybe two at best.... And then Cleveland will have no good bigs once again. The Magic Men run in the East. Cleveland will always be chasing a big to stop Dwight Howard. Shaq and Sheed are only short term solutions.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Marcus13 said:


> I don't think Boston needs to at all either...I just really think they are going to overreact to the playoff outcome and these deals today by both Cleveland and Orlando and do something stupid


Something like trading Allen to the Bobcats for Radmanavic? lol. I don't think BOS is going to make any stupid deals like PHO when they traded away their championship squad away in 1 season.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

HKF said:


> The NBA is becoming a have and have-not league which is great for the league as a whole.
> 
> Orlando, Cleveland, Boston, Washington are the top 4 teams in the East IMO health permitting.
> Los Angeles, Denver, San Antonio, Houston are the top 4 teams in the West IMO health permitting.




Did you just put Washington with Orlando, Cleveland, Boston, Lakers, Denver, San Antonio and Houston!?!?!??!?!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

sMaK said:


> He's not the only GM that's cutting space for 2010. Half the league is doing this. How does this make him a genius?


Because trading VC to the Cavs means Bron might likely stay longer, that team could get to the finals.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Honestly Orlando is going to be worse off.They're only making this move because they can't agree with Turkoglu,most likely because of years rather than $ per year.So they're losing two of their best players in the playoffs, plus a guy who was pretty solid at the point and a guy who gave front court depth.Hedo was playing multiple positions for them as well.


Carter really isn't going to give you a lot more than they got from Lee in the playoffs,much less what they were getting from Lee,Hedo,Alston and Battie.If they lose Gortat that means they'll be losing half their playoff rotation plus they guy who would have gotten Gortat's minutes if he leaves.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Blue Magic said:


> What if Magic land McDyess who can check Sheed, though? Or better yet, what if the Magic land Sheed??
> 
> If Cleveland lands Sheed their team will still be ancient. Even if this motivates Bron to re-sign with them, how many good years do Shaq & Sheed have left?? One, maybe two at best.... And then Cleveland will have no good bigs once again. The Magic Men run in the East. Cleveland will always be chasing a big to stop Dwight Howard. Shaq and Sheed are only short term solutions.


That would be very interesting.. Sheed vs Dyess.

I see Sheed as a better fit next to Shaq and Dyess alongside Dwight...


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Blue Magic said:


> What if Magic land McDyess who can check Sheed, though? Or better yet, what if the Magic land Sheed??
> 
> If Cleveland lands Sheed their team will still be ancient. Even if this motivates Bron to re-sign with them, how many good years do Shaq & Sheed have left?? One, maybe two at best.... And then Cleveland will have no good bigs once again. The Magic Men run in the East. Cleveland will always be chasing a big to stop Dwight Howard. Shaq and Sheed are only short term solutions.


The Lakers proved that you don't need a dominant defensive big to beat the Magic. Shaq/Sheed might be a short-term solution to aid Lebron but when they expire they leave CLE with enough cap space for a replacement.
Not only that but the Magic don't have the cap space to sign Sheed unless he signs for the MLE which I doubt will occur. McDyess is a special case because he is particular with who he plays for and I don't think that ORL would be one of his top choices.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

The only thing I don't like about this deal is the fact we gave up Lee. I'm hoping that is a typo or something and we gave up Redick. Either way, Carter > Lee at this moment and he gives the Magic yet another big time scorer/allstar type in their lineup. Hopefully this also means the Magic are going to keep Hedo and Gortat. With Battie gone, Gortat staying just became necessary. Not to mention the Magic will also be in the market for a backup PF, probably using the MLE to get one (Marion, Wallace, McDyess, etc all come to mind).

God the Magic's offense is going to be extremely good next year. Their starting lineup will arguably be the best in basketball. Not sure how you will be able to stop all of those scorers.

Just noticed the Magic also got Anderson in the deal. He was about as productive as Lee last year, but was on a bad team. He is a PF type as well. Good move by the Magic to not only get a legit starting SG, but a decent backup as well. Now they need to resign Hedo, Gortat and use the MLE to add another good bench player and that will be the end of their offseason.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

By the way, according to local media, the Magic did this deal to entice Hedo to stay. They are still pursuing signing him and if they can't get it done, they want to do a sign and trade with him to net another player. Sounds about right.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Diable said:


> Honestly Orlando is going to be worse off.They're only making this move because they can't agree with Turkoglu,most likely because of years rather than $ per year.So they're losing two of their best players in the playoffs, plus a guy who was pretty solid at the point and a guy who gave front court depth.Hedo was playing multiple positions for them as well.
> 
> 
> Carter really isn't going to give you a lot more than they got from Lee in the playoffs,much less what they were getting from Lee,Hedo,Alston and Battie.If they lose Gortat that means they'll be losing half their playoff rotation plus they guy who would have gotten Gortat's minutes if he leaves.


Ryan Anderson isnt a bum and he can play the 3 and 4 spot.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Mark Jackson on VC "Better than Hedo, a complete player on both ends of the floor" lmao! What?


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## Zach (May 11, 2003)

I would say this definitely benefits Orlando with the talent they already have


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

A lot of people are underrating Carter. Even if the Magic don't re-sign Hedo this is still an upgrade for them. Hedo only averaged 15.8 ppg during the playoffs this season. Carter has a career playoff average of 25.9 ppg. If they can keep Hedo too then this might make them favorites to win it all.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Fray said:


> A lot of people are underrating Carter. Even if the Magic don't re-sign Hedo this is still an upgrade for them. Hedo only averaged 15.8 ppg during the playoffs this season. Carter has a career playoff average of 25.9 ppg. If they can keep Hedo too then this might make them favorites to win it all.


I think they are going to keep Hedo and if Gortat is only offered the MLE (he is a RFA) they will match. That will keep both of those guys in place, while adding Carter. Then they will probably go make one more deal which nets them another big man, although picking up Anderson in the deal was great for them as well since he is a good backup PF.

2009-2010 Magic

PG Nelson, Johnson, VE player
SG Carter, Pietrus, Redick
SF Hedo, Anderson
PF Lewis, MLE player
C Howard, Gortat


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

people are fussing about the loss of lee as if they did'nt get a very serviceable player in return. they got vince freaking carter who is above and beyond better than lee. they're trying to win it all next year and vince can help expand svg's offensive aspect of the game. that being said, it would be nice if they can bring another big man.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

I don't see how the Magic will be able to trade for Vince Carter, resign both Hedo Turkoglu and Marcin Gortat AND sign a backup PF with the MLE. Didn't we use the MLE on Mikeal Pietrus last offseason?


We might be able to resign Gortat, but I don't see us keeping Hedo. Like you and I both think, they might just sign and trade him for a starting PF and slide Lewis over to the 3.


I know the Knicks were intrested in signing Gortat, but they've just drafted Jordan Hill and they're susposedly finalizing a trade that would land them Darko Milicic.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Rumors say Portland was really interested in Hedo. Worst case Hedo walks, but no one can pay him what Orlando can so a S&T is a definite possibility. If we lose Hedo for nothing, I certainly dont expect us to lose Gortat for nothing. Gortat is RFA, so we can almost certainly keep him or at least get something good for him. The offseason is young. There are still plenty of moves to be made.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

There are rumors floating around out there that Rasheed is down to Orlando and San Antonio, and if the Magic don't land him, they still have a chance at bigs like McDyess and Bass, so it's not like Orlando is done getting players. If Rasheed signs with Orlando, who the hell is going to score on them in the post?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I really hope he does come to Orlando, thats a dangerous team. Most likely Hedo walks. BTW the Nets will have $27 mill in cap space, dont feel too bad for them.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

LOL at the people who say this trade does not help the Magic. Seriously, what Carter brings to the table is better than what any of the players that were traded did. Sorry, but Carter in the rotation, and if they keep Hedo, they are easily in my opinion the number 1 undisputed favorite in the East.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Prolific Scorer said:


> I don't see how the Magic will be able to trade for Vince Carter, resign both Hedo Turkoglu and Marcin Gortat AND sign a backup PF with the MLE. Didn't we use the MLE on Mikeal Pietrus last offseason?


Yes, what's your point? You get the MLE every year as long as you're over the cap, it's not the LLE. With that said, I don't see the Magic re-signing Hedo and Gortat and using the MLE, that's feasible under the salary cap but a lot to ask for from ownership.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

From what the local media is saying, the Magic have already offered Hedo a contract, but his agent said Hedo will go around the league to see what his worth is and then go back to the Magic to see if they offer the same because he wants to stay. Gortat is pretty much going to do the same thing, although in his case he can't just leave since he is a RFA. There has even been talk of a sign and trade deal including Hedo so that the Magic don't lose him empty handed.

In all honesty, the Magic need to keep their core group together. I figure Hedo and Gortat are apart of that core group. Wallace would simply be a rental for a year (the Magic would probably give him a one year deal just under the MLE so that they can have a team option for a 2nd year).

Also that PG spot is looking thin again. They need to address that with possibly the VE as well. Maybe bring in another Point Forward like Grant Hill just in case Nelson goes down again (That would give them two with him and Hedo).


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

HB said:


> You didnt say that when the Spurs got RJ


RJ replaces a shooter Finley in the starting lineup so it keeps the flow intact. 

Courtney Lee along with Pietrus and Reddick are guys you use to plug in depending on what you need. Pietrus and Lee don't need the ball to be effective. They can play defense, hustle , whatever. 

What does VC do when the ball doesn't come his way ??? Pout ??? He certainly doesn't defend or dive for loose balls anymore.

I think Orlando panicked when they didn't need to. They could have won at least two games in the finals. The Lakers won two the year before and came back to win it all with the same team. 

Great move Jersey. The PG and C positions are set for a decade. Time to fill in the rest in 2010 !


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

nice trade by orlando. seems insignificant but getting ryan anderson was key. he's the type of big man that should play well under SVG offense.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

LA68 said:


> RJ replaces a shooter Finley in the starting lineup so it keeps the flow intact.
> 
> Courtney Lee along with Pietrus and Reddick are guys you use to plug in depending on what you need. Pietrus and Lee don't need the ball to be effective. They can play defense, hustle , whatever.
> 
> ...


If you watch the Nets, which obviously you dont, you'd know Devin Harris is probably the closest thing to AI in the game right now, meaning for him to get his 20 or so points, he needs to dominate the ball. Vince must have been doing an awful lot of pouting to be able to average 20ppg this season with a ball dominating point guard.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

LA68 said:


> *I think Orlando panicked when they didn't need to. They could have won at least two games in the finals. The Lakers won two the year before and came back to win it all with the same team. *


So Orlando should of sit tight, made no changes and just cross their fingers that LA, Boston, Cleveland, Spurs and Houston gets injured?


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## Omega (Apr 11, 2005)

YoYoYoWasup said:


> There are rumors floating around out there that Rasheed is down to Orlando and San Antonio, and if the Magic don't land him, they still have a chance at bigs like McDyess and Bass, so it's not like Orlando is done getting players. If Rasheed signs with Orlando, who the hell is going to score on them in the post?


damn... orlando has to look mighty nice to sheed. then again so does SA or Cleveland... 

if the magic got sheed its a wrap for the league. at least youd have to think so... but on paper never works out as good as it should it seems... well cept for boston that year


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> Rumors say Portland was really interested in Hedo. Worst case Hedo walks, but no one can pay him what Orlando can so a S&T is a definite possibility. If we lose Hedo for nothing, I certainly dont expect us to lose Gortat for nothing. Gortat is RFA, so we can almost certainly keep him or at least get something good for him. The offseason is young. There are still plenty of moves to be made.


Honestly, you should have noticed Boston's struggles with three high usage players (though that's exacerbated by the fact that one of them is offensively challenged). There's just no way for Orlando to line up three guys like Turkeyglue, 'Meer, and Winsanity and still find shots for Lewis and Howard. Unless the rest of the league agrees that they won't play defense against Orlando anymore, and promise to play the games at an 80's type pace for them Howard will go weeks between shots. They're better off making a sign & trade deal for a low-usage type player like Josh Childress (would a two way sign & trade even be legal?) or to Portland for Outlaw, Bayless, and filler.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Great trade for the Magic, I'm shocked at how underrated Carter is on this board. Were talking about essentially a 20/5/5 guy who can shoot the ball with the best of them, has a great 3 point percentage which will come in handy playing for the Magic. Can defend, and has a knack for steals and blocks. His instincts are killer, and will be a perfect compliment for this Magic team. So will teams now play Carter straight up, because if you double you get killed by all the three point shooters in Nelson, Pietrus, Rashard, and Hedo. Do you not Double Carter when he drives ? He's a great passer who if doubled in the paint will find Howard. Carters game gives the Magic's offense more diversity and makes it more dynamic.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> No. Cleveland has been trying to trade for Winsanity for more than a year, and New Jersey has been refusing (probably afraid that having legit second option would make Cleveland unbeatable and ruin their LeBron fantasies). Now they've essentially given him away to one of Cleveland's primary competitors in the East. That's a huge FU.


Ah yes, forgot about all those attempts by the Cavs to try and land VC. 

I don't think the Cavs are too upset since they've added one of the few legit centers in the league. Not to mention, Vince is less of a match up nightmare as Hedo was for them. :whoknows:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Ehmunro probably hasn't watched Vince play a lot, otherwise he'd know he doesnt have to take 18 shots a game to be satisfied. Meer, Shard, Hedo, Dwight and him will all do fine.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

stevemc said:


> Ah yes, forgot about all those attempts by the Cavs to try and land VC.
> 
> I don't think the Cavs are too upset since they've added one of the few legit centers in the league. Not to mention, Vince is less of a match up nightmare as Hedo was for them. :whoknows:


A legit C that might just create more problems for them by clogging up the lane and getting pick n rolled to death. Still doesn't solve their need for an athletic big guy.

VC to Orlando is a better move.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Some have been fooled into believing the Shaq-Cavs deal is a good one. Bottom line, its not. Its good for ratings but it doesnt solve the Cavs problems. Shaq aint guarding no PFs, neither is he guarding fleet footed Centers either. He is no longer a great shot blocker. They had to make a move, that was the only one available. If they had gotten Amare, they would win the title. Shaq keeps getting traded because he's not tht reliable a teammate or player.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> Ehmunro probably hasn't watched Vince play a lot, otherwise he'd know he doesnt have to take 18 shots a game to be satisfied.


Neither do Pierce, Allen, or Garnett. Yet Ray Allen struggles to find his rhythm offensively because there just isn't enough room for him to get creative with ball (because it's either in Rondo or Pierce's hands). And my remark wasn't even about Vince, it was about the other two guys, Lewis & Howard, who aren't going to get any time at all with the ball. If putting five high usage players on the floor at the same time brought victories the Warriors would be title contenders. I think that, offensively, Carter is better than Turkeyglue, so they should look to turn Hedo into a lower usage player so that the Magic can fully exploit Carter's offensive creativity.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You know, the funny thing about all this is if Otis Smith hadnt thought Vince was 'fool's gold' a year or two ago. He'd be on the Magic right now instead of Rashard, costing them less.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> Some have been fooled into believing the Shaq-Cavs deal is a good one. Bottom line, its not. Its good for ratings but it doesnt solve the Cavs problems. Shaq aint guarding no PFs, neither is he guarding fleet footed Centers either. He is no longer a great shot blocker. They had to make a move, that was the only one available. If they had gotten Amare, they would win the title. Shaq keeps getting traded because he's not tht reliable a teammate or player.


Shaq is only the second slowest center on the Cavs at the moment. The player he's replacing in the offense is going to be Ben Wallace. They're going to put on a full court press for 'Sheed and convince Joe Smith to re-sign to cover the 4 and spread the floor. Ilgauskas is likely to be dealt as an expiring contract this point. If they can plug their other hole, the SG spot, they're right there again.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

They have their work cut out for them then. David Aldrige reported this week that Sheed wants to go to SA or Orlando.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

One less three-point shooter that you have to deal with when playing Orlando. That sounds good to me.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> A legit C that might just create more problems for them by clogging up the lane and getting pick n rolled to death. Still doesn't solve their need for an athletic big guy.
> 
> VC to Orlando is a better move.


Shaq still gives you a legit 5. There's only a handful in the league but I buy the clogging paint argument. It was the 1st thought in my mind when the trade was rumored since LeBron spends most of his time crashing into the paint. Only giving up Wallace and Pavlovic just makes this a better trade IMO since Wallace is but only a shadow of himself these days while Shaq still has his size. 

I said initially Vince has fewer playoff wins under his belt then Lee. How many clutch plays has Vince made in the playoffs this decade? Clutch in the regular season is about as worthless as fan ballot all-star voting. Developing Lee along with the rest of the young core makes more sense to me than bringing in the guy who used to be known as Half Man Half a Season.

I like the point brought up about Anderson. We're all pretty sure Vince will contribute almost as well as, if not more than, Lee (at least for a year or two taking shots from others or not) but Anderson turning into a solid starter or bench player to replace some of the things Hedo would do will tell us if this trade was worth it. We already know he won't dominate the ball as much as Hedo did but we can't say the same about Vince.


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## NOFX22 (Sep 28, 2006)

So what i just saw on espn is that Magic will not resign Hedo because they got carter! I thought the intention was to resign Hedo and trade for Carter??!!! This is insane! The magic will not be as good as they were last year if they dont resign Hedo.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

moves are being made, and made fast. I'm curious to see what all of this amounts to.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The best post passer on that entire team right now is Vince. Dwight is going to benefit from this move big time. Mikki Moore had a career year not just because of Kidd, but beacuse Vince was also giving him easy looks. Brook Lopez and Nenad can also attest to that. As for NOFX' post, the Magic couldn't get a deal with Hedo, or at least thats what is being said, so they should just let him and walk and have a gaping hole at the SF position. Come on now! Vince is a better player than Hedo period.

Steve, cue the 2001 Raptors-Philadelphia playoff series if you must, to get an inkling of what Vince can do in the playoffs.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Steve, cue the 2001 Raptors-Philadelphia playoff series if you must, to get an inkling of what Vince can do in the playoffs.


So 8 years since? Close enough to a decade. How much Conference Finals Playoff exp has he racked up? Less than Lee.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Dee-Zy said:


> So Orlando should of sit tight, made no changes and just cross their fingers that LA, Boston, Cleveland, Spurs and Houston gets injured?


Orlando is more complete and younger than every team in the east. If Nelson stays healthy , they might have won this year. If you watch the best teams recently Spurs, Lakers, Pistons, Celtics...they keep the same guys and let them grow together. That cohesiveness makes them better year after year. 

When they make major changes like Pistons, it falls apart. Orlando will have a lesser record next year when they had the best team in the east. All they needed was experience and they have that now. But, they also have VC.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

HB said:


> If you watch the Nets, which obviously you dont, you'd know Devin Harris is probably the closest thing to AI in the game right now, meaning for him to get his 20 or so points, he needs to dominate the ball. Vince must have been doing an awful lot of pouting to be able to average 20ppg this season with a ball dominating point guard.


Why would anyone outside of the tri state area watch the Nets ??? You had a coach take you to the finals two years in a row, can him the next year. Now you have a coach who hasn't gotten anywhere near the finals and keep him for almost a decade ! 

You can only wish Harris has the career AI has had !


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

stevemc said:


> So 8 years since? Close enough to a decade. How much Conference Finals Playoff exp has he racked up? Less than Lee.


Are you suggesting that Lee is a better player than Vince? I am not too sure on details, but the Nets were in the playoffs like 2 years ago. I have noticed you have brought up the Lee point quite a few times, I mean after all he was the reason the Magic got to the finals this year lol.

But hey I am sure Courtney Lee will one day have career playoff averages of 26ppg, 7rpg and 5.2apg. Talk about overrating a guy than need be.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Organized Chaos said:


> They have their work cut out for them then. David Aldrige reported this week that Sheed wants to go to SA or Orlando.


Weather is nice in the south. I dont blame him. 



ATLien said:


> One less three-point shooter that you have to deal with when playing Orlando. That sounds good to me.


One less?? We swapp inconsistent Hedo with VC. And we swapp Lee for Anderson who is also a good shooter with size. Meer is a > shooter than Skip. Magic still have shooters across the board. I just hope we can Hedo into something, rather than him walking for nothing. Will be good either way, but I my only concern is out depth.



HB said:


> The best post passer on that entire team right now is Vince. Dwight is going to benefit from this move big time. Mikki Moore had a career year not just because of Kidd, but beacuse Vince was also giving him easy looks. Brook Lopez and Nenad can also attest to that. As for NOFX' post, the Magic couldn't get a deal with Hedo, or at least thats what is being said, so they should just let him and walk and have a gaping hole at the SF position. Come on now! Vince is a better player than Hedo period.
> 
> Steve, cue the 2001 Raptors-Philadelphia playoff series if you must, to get an inkling of what Vince can do in the playoffs.


Lol. VC is amazing, I just dont understand why some people think this sets us back. I cant wait to see VC in uniform next season and It's good to see Otis finally making some power moves. For him to make a move like this, he clearly has a plan mapped out, so I trust that we have pieces in place to be a better team next year w/ or w/o Hedo. Otis always covers his tracks and we have been better every season he's been here, so I trust we will be ok. Otis has earned that respect from me, because alot of people have questioned his moves, but clearly he seems to know what he's doing more than the common fan. Magic, we need to trust our GM. He is good.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

LA68 said:


> Why would anyone outside of the tri state area watch the Nets ??? You had a coach take you to the finals two years in a row, can him the next year. Now you have a coach who hasn't gotten anywhere near the finals and keep him for almost a decade !
> 
> You can only wish Harris has the career AI has had !


Devin Harris dominates the ball like AI doesnt translate to Devin Harris is AI.


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## NOFX22 (Sep 28, 2006)

HB said:


> The best post passer on that entire team right now is Vince. Dwight is going to benefit from this move big time. Mikki Moore had a career year not just because of Kidd, but beacuse Vince was also giving him easy looks. Brook Lopez and Nenad can also attest to that. As for NOFX' post, the Magic couldn't get a deal with Hedo, or at least thats what is being said, so they should just let him and walk and have a gaping hole at the SF position. Come on now! Vince is a better player than Hedo period.
> 
> Steve, cue the 2001 Raptors-Philadelphia playoff series if you must, to get an inkling of what Vince can do in the playoffs.


So basically Magic traded away Hedo, battie, Alston, and Lee for VC???!!!:wtf:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

and Ryan Anderson lol


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

NOFX22 said:


> So basically Magic traded away Hedo, battie, Alston, and Lee for VC???!!!:wtf:


What tells you we were going to keep Hedo anyways??? I look at it as, VC was insurance for us likely losing Hedo.... Because supposedly Otis made a 'fair' offer that Hedo and his agent didnt want to settle for. Idk what it was, but Hedo wants a long contract, and I think we probably only offered a 3 or 4 yr deal(like most teams probably will). So no, it's not trading Hedo/Battie/Skip/Lee for VC.... that's not the right perspective. Otis just went out and got us an impact player in the possibility of us losing another. Plus, we also get a good prospect in Anderson that we liked last year anyway to somewhat replace future with Lee. So we're taking a w/ or w/o Hedo approach, instead of waiting all summer for Hedo to make a decision.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

HB said:


> Are you suggesting that Lee is a better player than Vince? I am not too sure on details, but the Nets were in the playoffs like 2 years ago. I have noticed you have brought up the Lee point quite a few times, I mean after all he was the reason the Magic got to the finals this year lol.
> 
> But hey I am sure Courtney Lee will one day have career playoff averages of 26ppg, 7rpg and 5.2apg. Talk about overrating a guy than need be.


It's really apples and oranges since Lee wasn't the focal point of the offense while Vince is. My point is Vince isn't bringing much more playoff experience. He's on the decline of his career and Lee is working towards his prime. The move might make them better in the short term but I really don't think it's a world of difference that people want to make it out to be. 

How much longer Vince can play at a high level and how low Lee's ceiling is the main argument here.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> Devin Harris dominates the ball like AI doesnt translate to Devin Harris is AI.


I agree, Devin Harris suffers from separation anxiety when the ball isn't in his hands. If Carter can coexist with DH he'll be fine in Orlando. The Magic have jumped to the head of the contender line. Especially if they can convert Hedo into a low-usage wing like Childress or send him to Portland for some depth (including Bayless).


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

stevemc said:


> It's really apples and oranges since Lee wasn't the focal point of the offense while Vince is. My point is Vince isn't bringing much more playoff experience. He's on the decline of his career and Lee is working towards his prime. The move might make them better in the short term but I really don't think it's a world of difference that people want to make it out to be.
> 
> How much longer Vince can play at a high level and how low Lee's ceiling is the main argument here.


The Magic can find more serviceable players along the lines of Lee much easier than they can ever get a player with the talent of Vince Carter even at his age which is only 31 I believe. Same age as Kobe Bryant, I would say Vince has 3 more years easily playing at the level he's playing right now.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

stevemc said:


> It's really apples and oranges since Lee wasn't the focal point of the offense while Vince is. My point is Vince isn't bringing much more playoff experience. He's on the decline of his career and Lee is working towards his prime. The move might make them better in the short term but I really don't think it's a world of difference that people want to make it out to be.
> 
> How much longer Vince can play at a high level and how low Lee's ceiling is the main argument here.


It's pretty clear the Magic are trying to win the title next for the next couple of seasons. It's also clear that they're right there, not far away at all so you really can't blame them for that. I wish ownership would pay the luxury tax to keep Turkoglu like they said they would, I really don't think with how SVG's offense works, being predicated on ball movement and getting in the paint to set up the outside shot, having Carter, Turkoglu, Nelson, Lewis and Howard would be a problem.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Another thing I noticed was how many games Vince has played the past 4 seasons is higher than the 1st half of his career. You could say his injury problems aren't an issue anymore due to his less aggressive style of play or he that he's due for another half season. 

I haven't seen Rafer Alston mentioned much in this thread, shouldn't be hard to replace the type of player he was but he did play good ball for the Magic in his limited time with the team. With Nelson healthy he's not needed as much but the veteran depth at point was a nice luxury they no longer will enjoy. Thoughts?


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Hedo apparently is looking for a Maggette type of deal, although we have known this for a while now. I doubt he gets that from any one, unless it is from a bad, desperate team. Have fun with that Hedo.

Any way, if Hedo does go, I look for the Magic to pursue Wallace even harder. With him they could move Lewis to the 3. Not to mention I would assume they would probably resign Gortat and a few vets like Grant Hill.

You could see a roster that looks like this for the Magic if Hedo leaves, although I'm not sure why he would now that the Magic have a legit starting SG. If anything you would think he would want to stay because if he does, that would surely propel the Magic to the #1 seed in the east next year, favorite to win the east/title.

PG Nelson, Johnson
SG Carter, Pietrus, Redick
SF Lewis, Hill
PF Wallace, Anderson
C Howard, Gortat


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

stevemc said:


> Another thing I noticed was how many games Vince has played the past 4 seasons is higher than the 1st half of his career. You could say his injury problems aren't an issue anymore due to his less aggressive style of play or he that he's due for another half season.
> 
> I haven't seen Rafer Alston mentioned much in this thread, shouldn't be hard to replace the type of player he was but he did play good ball for the Magic in his limited time with the team. With Nelson healthy he's not needed as much but the veteran depth at point was a nice luxury they no longer will enjoy. Thoughts?


From what I read about him and Battie, both could be bought out and both could resign with the Magic for the vets minimum to provide more depth.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

If he has his choice Alston is not going anywhere unless he can start.He'd be silly not to take the best offer if he was released.Alston hasn't ever had a huge contract and he's getting near the end of his career.He is going to think about himself and his pocket,which is what you should do when you're making a business decision.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Wasn't Pietrus starting at SG before he broke his wrist?

If the assumption is they're not resigning Hedo then the only drawback is whether or not Orlado can do a sign and trade and improve the depth that they lost in trading away Lee. Vince should do well in Orlando's drive n kick offense. He's flat out better than Hedo at everything Turkoglu does well...and he might just fit better next to an improved Nelson better than Hedo did.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

Look at Hedo's FG%, TS%, and PER. He's not that good. At least not 5 Years / 10 Mil Per good.


And there's some lunatics on here who actually believe Hedo was responsible for leading the Magic to the NBA Finals.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^If you listened to Broussard and the PTI guys you'd know they are not alone. All of a sudden Hedo's a better playmaker than Vince. Smh!


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Diable said:


> If he has his choice Alston is not going anywhere unless he can start.He'd be silly not to take the best offer if he was released.Alston hasn't ever had a huge contract and he's getting near the end of his career.He is going to think about himself and his pocket,which is what you should do when you're making a business decision.


If NJ cuts him, he'll still be getting paid his $5 mil salary for this year tho... So Orlando could scoop on a one yr rental for cheap if he wanted to give it another go here. Obviously, this all depends on what NJ does and what Skip prefers(winning or money). I dont see any reason why NJ would cut Rafer tho. He's a better backup PG than Dooling & Dooling can slide full time to the 2 and back up Lee. It makes sense to keep Skip.


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