# players you DON'T want raps to draft



## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Andrea Bargnani- maybe another darko, raps dont need a 4 anyways
Shelden Williams - supposedly he is projected to go to the raptors as of now. I dont know why, but that just makes me sad. ANOTHER POWER FORWARD!!!!!
Adam Morrison - I just dont like him, simple as that.
JJ Reddick - although its unlikely the raps would draft him, i have a similar distain for him.
LaMarcus Aldridge - the most boring prospect since Sheldon Williams.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Hmmm, 

Andrea Bargnani, maybe another Dirk, you can always use more talent.
Shelden Williams, the furthest thing from a project forward in this year's draft.
Adam Morrison, heart of a champion, with the skills to match. It's as simple as that.
JJ Reddick, well duh.
LaMarcus Aldridge, the more exciting prospect compared to Sheldon.

There I fixed your list for you. It makes sense now.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

I've always thought Williams can be an NBA center if he is really as tall as listed - his offensive game is fine for a C and his defense is great, so the only real question IMO is size. 

Players I don't want:

Andrea Bargnani - 7'0", 225 lbs.: Honestly, how many 3/4s can one team have? Matt, Charlie, Joey, EWill...
J.J. Redick - 6'4", 200 lbs.: College: 30-point scorer. Pro: Spot-up shooting roleplayer. Not what we need.
LaMarcus Aldridge - 6'11", 237 lbs.: We have Chris Bosh already. Imagine Stephen A. Smith's reaction if we picked him.
Rudy Gay - 6'9", 220 lbs.: I wouldn't hate the pick, but I wish he would show some heart once in a while.
Allan Ray - 6'2", 205 lbs.: One Mike James is enough, we don't need another with less PG skills.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

RaptorsCB4 said:


> Andrea Bargnani - 7'0", 225 lbs.: Honestly, how many 3/4s can one team have? Matt, Charlie, Joey, EWill...


I'm pretty sure ESPN is the only one still listing Andrea at 225 lbs. Most other sources have him listed around 240 lbs.

I'd rather have Andrea then three out of the four other Raptors SF/PF's you listed.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Aldridge would be playing C for us and he can do it


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> Aldridge would be playing C for us and he can do it


Aldridge <= Bosh


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

shookem said:


> Hmmm,
> 
> Andrea Bargnani, maybe another Dirk, you can always use more talent.
> Shelden Williams, the furthest thing from a project forward in this year's draft.
> ...


I think my list makes more sense. :biggrin:


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I don't have a player in mind specifically, but I do not want the organization to draft a centre or power forward. I am hoping that we can sign a centre over the offseason therefore eliminating the need to draft one.

Ideally I would like them to draft a shooting guard -- but a small forward might work just as well.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Player I don't want:
1. Rudy Gay
2. Adam Morrison/J.J. Redick (draft spot will be too high for them, in my opinion)
3. Shelden Williams
4. Andrea Bargnani

The Raptors should look at LaMarcus Aldridge or Marcus Williams, both of whom are outstanding athletes and fill pressing needs of the Raptors.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Slasher said:


> I don't have a player in mind specifically, but I do not want the organization to draft a centre or power forward. I am hoping that we can sign a centre over the offseason therefore eliminating the need to draft one.
> 
> Ideally I would like them to draft a shooting guard -- but a small forward might work just as well.


I don't agree with your sentiment, but I do agree with your method (naming a type of player, not a player).

Any list of players not to draft before the workouts and draft camps is, well, let's just say it demonstrates a limited basketball perspective. :biggrin: 


IMO, anyone who doesn't draft BPA deserves to get screwed over.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

shookem said:


> I don't agree with your sentiment, but I do agree with your method (naming a type of player, not a player).
> 
> Any list of players not to draft before the workouts and draft camps is, well, let's just say it demonstrates a limited basketball perspective. :biggrin:
> 
> ...


While i recognize that you are trying to insult me (anytime i make a post) i dont see the difference between naming a particular player and naming the type of player. Wouldnt that particular player's skill set just extend to similar players? I didnt intend for this thread to be a scouting report for raptors brass, just to let people say what players they dont like or dont think would fit with the raptors.

What makes you sure that your knowledge of basketball is superior to mine? Im a good player and have been watching for a long time.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

shookem said:


> Shelden Williams, the furthest thing from a project forward in this year's draft.


He said he's projected to go to the Raptors, not that he was a project. 

Anyways, I'm assuming we're picking 5th.

*Adam Morrison* and *JJ Redick*... JJ's game won't translate to the NBA at the level where many think he will. He should be a good role player.. not worth a top 10 pick. Morrison is way to mentally unstable. I don't think his game will translate that well either (better than JJ's though).

*Shelden Williams* at 5 is way too high. Same thing with *Ronnie Brewer*, *Rajon Rondo*, and *Randy Foye*.. even though all those guys fit a need we need. If we trade down, then sure.

*Josh McRoberts*.. I think he'll turn out to be a solid player, but not enough to warrant us picking yet another power forward. T-Time and Aldridge yes, McRoberts no.

With the emergence of Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, Brandon Roy, and McRoberts, I don't believe *Rodney Carney* is worthy of the top five. Ditto with *Brandon Rush* if he declares.

That being said, guys I'd love the Raps to pick up at 5th: Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas, LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, and Rudy Gay. Also Andrea Bargnani from hear-say, though I've never seen him play other than in short online video clips. Since our future at both forward positions is pretty well set for the future with Bosh, Villanueva, and Graham, I personally favour Noah or Roy.. leaning towards Noah.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

mo76 said:


> While i recognize that you are trying to insult me (anytime i make a post) i dont see the difference between naming a particular player and naming the type of player. Wouldnt that particular player's skill set just extend to similar players? I didnt intend for this thread to be a scouting report for raptors brass, just to let people say what players people dont like or dont think would fit with the raptors.


I'm not trying to insult you bud, just stating my opinion.

Inclusive lists (like the ones made in the draft prospects thread, you may have noticed it. It's the one where people have been making lists all season) are a good thing. IMO, it's fine to name players that deserve further examination, but to say which players aren't good, well that's short sighted, not all the information is available.

Hey, I just like to know what I'm talking about when I make a list, it's not for everyone, but it's my method.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

shookem said:


> I'm not trying to insult you bud, just stating my opinion.
> 
> Inclusive lists (like the ones made in the draft prospects thread, you may have noticed it. It's the one where people have been making lists all season) are a good thing. IMO, it's fine to name players that deserve further examination, but to say which players aren't good, well that's short sighted, not all the information is available.
> 
> Hey, I just like to know what I'm talking about when I make a list, it's not for everyone, but it's my method.


Why do you say, your not trying to insult me, then call me bud? I dont care, im not going to report you for personal attacks or whatever.
I know that there are probably more formal lists on the draft prospect thread, but i thought this might be okay since most people just got to see alot of college players in the tourney so i decided to post it here. Move this or delete it then. Sorry.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Oh, i forgot to mention that your coming of as a real -------.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I don't think there is really anyone I would be pissed off about us drafting. The class is weak this year anyways. I guess my only hope would be that we don't draft a natural power forward. I think it just would be overkill at this point no matter how talented the player is.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

Rudy Gay... the guy has shown me nothing!!!


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

> I don't agree with your sentiment, but I do agree with your method (naming a type of player, not a player).
> 
> Any list of players not to draft before the workouts and draft camps is, well, let's just say it demonstrates a limited basketball perspective.
> 
> ...



Using your advanced "method" of inclusive lists, i think that the raptors need
1. A true center
2. A PG
3. an athletic swing man.

How many times can this be stated? 

The raptors 1st pick, is projected b/t 5 and 10
There are players on NBA draft.net in these spots.

There are only like 20 players the raps would potentially take with their first pick anyways. Im sure that most of these players the have been named on this thread already. 
Why not just give the name of the player?


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

McFurious said:


> Rudy Gay... the guy has shown me nothing!!!


He has a nice jumper and is very athletic. I think he takes A LOT of unfair critisism. Saying the guy has no heart when he is barely 20. Give the dude a chance. He has all the tools to be a star. His mentality cant be worse than you know who.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

anybody who's name ISNT Tyrus Thomas


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

pmac34 said:


> anybody who's name ISNT Tyrus Thomas


Youve got to be kidding me. He isnt a good fit for the raps right now, but i still think hes a great prospect.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Tyrus Thomas
Rudy Gay
Morrison
Aldridge
Carney
O'Bryant
Ronnie Brewer
Noah
Fat Baby


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Tyrus Thomas
> Rudy Gay
> Morrison
> Aldridge
> ...


so really, who do u want them to draft outside of shelden williams? reddick? haha


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

If they go swing for some reason, the list begins and ends with Roy. Bargnani could be the guy, but I don't know enough to rule him out. He does not look like Skita or Darko since he has played v. men. After that, Shelden.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Shelden Williams called, he wants you to get off his ----.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Raptors don't need another rookie and wait for the next 3 years for results. Is is allowable to pick and immediately trade your drafted player?

The Raptors need brainy veteran players and not developing rookies ... I mean there has to be a limit on how many rookies a team can digest before the coach shoots himself.


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

People are hating on Rudy Gay because he doesn't put on Adam Morrison/JJ offensive performances.

For those people who say he has no heart, this guy has lateral quickness that is almost unholy for a 6'9 guy and he can block shots, rebound and steal the ball. I have never seen a player with no heart take such pride in the little aspects of the game. Who cares if he scores, if he can lock up the best perimeter player on the opposite team, and rebound/block/steal then he is exactly what we need. With him and Mo and mike james on the floor at the same time, our perimeter defence is amazing, and we dont have to rely on the bigs to make up for the mistakes on the perimeter.

Rudy fills so many holes for this team its not even funny. 

Yall need to stop H8ing on Rudy! LoL!


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

McFurious said:


> Rudy Gay... the guy has shown me nothing!!!


Then you my friend, need to stop looking for 30 point performances and see his rediculous Defensive upside he has shown flashes of, not to mention his rebounding/blocking and all the little things that make a player great.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

The_Notic said:


> Then you my friend, need to stop looking for 30 point performances and see his rediculous Defensive upside he has shown flashes of, not to mention his rebounding/blocking and all the little things that make a player great.


i agree, he doesn't need to fill up the stat sheet to be effective in a game.. and i think at his age, if he realizes that, he will be one unbelievable player.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I'm not sure I want Gay either, unless his handles improves and he can play the 2. As far as perimeter d, I don't think we are that bad. Mo Pete and Graham are pretty damn good. The D we need is inside. I haven't seen anything from Gay that impresses me except for that promotional video which makes me want him just because he has potential of becoming a player of T-mac level (I think). Sides that, it's not like he really fits us. I don't want Morrison either, dude has legs of a 40 year old. It's not like his defense is that great. He should have a nice career in the nba, but not with us. We need a PG or a C, Not a SF or PF. Even our SG needs can be put on hold, I think Mo Pete is doing an excellent job there. I can't put Bargani on that list because I haven't seen him play personally, all I hear is that he is too soft to play the C and too slow to guard the SF. Also, he is another face up player. We need more of a back to the basket player. I don't want fat baby or Tyrus either, we don't need em.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

Dee-Zy said:


> I'm not sure I want Gay either, unless his handles improves and he can play the 2. As far as perimeter d, I don't think we are that bad. Mo Pete and Graham are pretty damn good. The D we need is inside. I haven't seen anything from Gay that impresses me except for that promotional video which makes me want him just because he has potential of becoming a player of T-mac level (I think). Sides that, it's not like he really fits us. I don't want Morrison either, dude has legs of a 40 year old. It's not like his defense is that great. He should have a nice career in the nba, but not with us. We need a PG or a C, Not a SF or PF. Even our SG needs can be put on hold, I think Mo Pete is doing an excellent job there. I can't put Bargani on that list because I haven't seen him play personally, all I hear is that he is too soft to play the C and too slow to guard the SF. Also, he is another face up player. We need more of a back to the basket player. I don't want fat baby or Tyrus either, we don't need em.



Raps need size and need it in a bad way... IMO BC should draft a center I like (Patrick O'Bryant, Shelden Williams, or Joakim Noah) in that order. At this point I rather have us draft Shelden Williams the guy can be our next Antonio Davis and play the 5 (you dont have to be a 7ft anymore to play center in the nba) than us drafting Rudy Gay, who I think will become a player who everyone will say had the potential to be great but never realized how good he could be.

We should be thinking center in this draft...If BC drafts a center with our first pick and then signs a center in free agency our center problems will finally be solved.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

still need that pass first starting PG though ^^^


MJ won't cut it. As much as I like how MJ has helped us this year, I'm afraid he'll be doing more wrongs than goods next year. If only Calderon could start.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

i wish we could trade this pick for Jamal Magloire...and then sign Jason Terry...plus add some QUALITY bench players.

PG - Jason Terry
SG - Mo Pete
SF - Charlie V.
PF - Bosh
C - Magloire


now that sounds like a damn good team to me...... :biggrin:


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

by the way i do't see anyone in this draft who really helps the Raps fill a need....most of the top picks happen to be PF's...and we don't need no more of em....unless the GM thinks Bosh may walk... :raised_ey


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

shookem said:


> Any list of players not to draft before the workouts and draft camps is, well, let's just say it demonstrates a limited basketball perspective. :biggrin:
> 
> 
> IMO, anyone who doesn't draft BPA deserves to get screwed over.


The problem is that most of us (none of us) will see workouts or draft camps. What we are privy to see are televised games. That is really all we can base our opinions of a player on. All of the other draft gossip from camps and workouts is usually based on someone else's opinion.

Based on what I've seen, I would NOT want to draft:

Rudy Gay - he seems to have almost no passion for the game and hasn't really stood out in the games I've watched. Guys who are good defenders in college aren't always able to translate that to the pros, especially with the apparent lack of motivation.
Rodney Carney - some games he seems incredible, other games he disappears. Seems to be a Half-Man, Half a season kind of player.

Right now it's difficult to say because we don't know our draft position until after the lottery. But those two would be on my avoid list.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Rudy could be one of those players who is being hurt by his college system and will explode at the next level. He certainly has the body and skills to be a great pro. Bit of a gamble though. Sort of like taking a Gerald Green where you are getting a bit of a mystery package mentally but with a very high ceiling. Fundamentals should be strong coming from UConn though.

The tournament darlings like Noah, O'Bryant really scare me. They dominate in the tourney because they have a clear height advantage and there are not many of the super strong Baby Davis or Sean May types to push them around. At the pro level they will look very average unless they have that 15 foot J or can be a 3 block per game type of D player (very, very rare). You see lots of 7 foot thin guys but not many Marcus Camby's. Mostly Loren Woods.

Shelden's measurements will come in very poor. Book it. He's probably just over 6'8" in bare feet. That won't help us at all. We already have a bigger stronger body in Hoff who isn't long enough to be effective, and a small agile athlete in Sow who is too small and too raw to play C. Shelden is not the answer. A poor man's Okafor, and even Emeka is not a true C.

Redick is more limited than Morrison just because of size. Morrison could be a Szerbiak type of player at best, which is pretty darn good. JJ is very unlikely to be a great pro but you could see him as a Rip Hamilton type if a team built a system like that for him and he was on a great team. Not likely. I'd pass on both. Charlie at the SF makes Morrison less useful.

I really like Bargnani but he is a pure SF right now. That would make CB4 have to play in the paint offensively if all 3 were on the court together. Which could also clog driving lanes. But it would mean we could have 2 great scoring forwards on the floor at all times if Bargnani comes off the bench. Our skill level would be off the chart. A very long front line. Sign a FA C and we would be really stacked, other than the backcourt where we are thin.

And let's not forget about Splitter. If he is really a 7 footer he could be a great fit. Very good body frame. Very athletic. And coached to be a top defender in Europe. Drafting Splitter could free up our cap space for a run at a big scoring SG. Ray Allen or Rashard Lewis could be available this summer in trade.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

i think we should make one thing clear again. we should always draft BPA!!!

cause quite honestly, it's screwed us b4. look at michael bradley, kareem rush (later traded for lindsey hunter/tracy murray), HOFFA. the drafts we took BPA were bosh, mcgrady, carter, charlie (to an extent), mo pete. i say we draft BPA and work our way around it.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Didn't Charlie have a very similar 'unmotivated' tag attached to him?

aizn is super smart, just like me.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

This year's draft doesn't seem to have players whose talent is that much above others in the top 5/10. The biggest differences are their positions and style of play. I think the drafting strategy should be a mix of BPA and fit with BC and Sam's desired system.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

aizn said:


> i think we should make one thing clear again. we should always draft BPA!!!
> 
> cause quite honestly, it's screwed us b4. look at michael bradley, kareem rush (later traded for lindsey hunter/tracy murray), HOFFA. the drafts we took BPA were bosh, mcgrady, carter, charlie (to an extent), mo pete. i say we draft BPA and work our way around it.


Great point. Unless a team is going for a championship that year (which the raps arent next year) then BPA makes alot of sense. Did babcock think that the raps were a championship team when he picked HOFFA? lol. I still hate the fact that the raps missed the chance to take IGGY, he is one of my fav players.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

dont want
Andrea Bargnani for obvisious reasons
Mcroberts
S.Williams

guys I would'nt ,ind
Roy
Carney
aldridge (but only if he is only going to play C)
M.Williams (great PG could replace James with Felton type rookie numbers and gradually improve and reach Paul's level in a 2 years.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

clutchmoney said:


> i wish we could trade this pick for Jamal Magloire...and then sign Jason Terry...plus add some QUALITY bench players.
> 
> PG - Jason Terry
> SG - Mo Pete
> ...


no doubt terry is a better PG than MJ, but if you don't want Bosh playing with a chucker, you don't want him here. terry is a SG if he plays on my team IMO.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Benis007 said:


> no doubt terry is a better PG than MJ, but if you don't want Bosh playing with a chucker, you don't want him here. terry is a SG if he plays on my team IMO.




vote Tj Ford!!!!


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I'm taking Ridnour over Ford


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Ridnour can't defend. From what I heard.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> Shelden's measurements will come in very poor. Book it. He's probably just over 6'8" in bare feet. That won't help us at all. We already have a bigger stronger body in Hoff who isn't long enough to be effective, and a small agile athlete in Sow who is too small and too raw to play C. Shelden is not the answer. A poor man's Okafor, and even Emeka is not a true C.


I guess he can kiss a shoe deal goodbye. When was the last time someone played without shoes? Technically EVERYONE in the league is 1.5 inches shorter than listed. 

Hoffa can't jump over the cracks in the sidewalk.

Emeka is a poorman's Shelden. Who was the focal point on Uconn? Shelden was never the focal point. 

And when was the last game Shelden missed due to a messed up back?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

aizn said:


> i think we should make one thing clear again. we should always draft BPA!!!
> 
> cause quite honestly, it's screwed us b4. look at michael bradley, kareem rush (later traded for lindsey hunter/tracy murray), HOFFA. the drafts we took BPA were bosh, mcgrady, carter, charlie (to an extent), mo pete. i say we draft BPA and work our way around it.


Given the parity, who can say who actually is the BPA this year? That is why position will influence.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I've heard BPA mentioned many times, but does it really make sense if that BPA was yet another SF?
Atlanta is packed with talented SF's and look how well that has worked for them.

with Charlie at the 3, and say that we will be choosing a top tier SF, how will minutes be divied and does that hinder the development of Charlie if his minutes were reduced, or he had to compete for minutes. Same with our hypothetical rookie.

time to be creative, maybe trade the pick? trade Charlie?
currently the best players available in our draft range consists of SF's and PF's, two of the most available postions in the league, postions that we are pretty much set at

*players that I don't want to draft*
anyone outside of... 
Sheldon (possible center)
Tyrus (too good to pass on)
Brandon Roy (best 2guard, IMO)
Noah (Bosh/Charlie/Noah..nuff said)

But hey, what do I know, JMHO


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

clutchmoney said:


> i wish we could trade this pick for Jamal Magloire...and then sign Jason Terry...


I hope the genie doesn't grant this wish.

My list includes...

*Tyrus Thomas* - To me he seems like a PF/SF tweener who's strength will be his defence and energy but we're covered at the forward spots. I'd rather look for a defence-minded centre through free-agency.
*Rudy Gay* - He has good athleticism and a decent jumpshot but I agree with those who question his "heart". I'm not sure about his ability to create for himself in the NBA either. I even question whether he'd be a good character guy to have.
*Lamarcus Aldridge* - I probably wouldn't mind if we didn't already have a young frontcourt with Bosh and Villanueva. Aldridge is too soft to fill the Raptors interior need.
*J.J. Redick* - We already have spot-up shooting role players. He doesn't seem to offer much mor than that.

That's about it for the lottery-projected picks. If we happen to win the draft lottery, then I just want them to select the player with the most trade demand. I'm not expecting much help from the NBA Draft this year. I think the Raptors can only make significant improvement through free-agency, trades and continual development.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

speedythief said:


> I don't think there is really anyone I would be pissed off about us drafting. The class is weak this year anyways. I guess my only hope would be that we don't draft a natural power forward. I think it just would be overkill at this point no matter how talented the player is.


I'm not even sure I'd go that far. I wouldn't want a true natural power forward like Boozer in this draft but I'd like another mobile, athletic, skilled 7 footer or a beast-like rebounder and shotblocker.
If we've got a good shot at big Joel this summer (and I think we do) then I would lean away from drafting another big man period but I'd be ecstatic if we ended up with Bargnani in this draft.

I wouldn't mind any of the top prospects. I think we've got a versatile team that could use and develop any of them. 

Splitter's the only guy I'm wary of but I'd love to draft him if he were going to come over, maybe even if we had to wait a year (more cap space is the only reason I'd consider it) if he's that strong in relation to the others available.

Reddick no- we need more length and explosiveness on the wing. Carney is a bit of a reach but I wouldn't be too disappointed.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

Brandon Roy is the safest and best pick out of the lottery. He is, hands down, the best player in the country. He'll fill up our need for a second 2 guard to give MoPe some rest/take over in a few years. Great shooter, solid slasher, plays hard on both sides and a leader.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

shookem said:


> I'm pretty sure ESPN is the only one still listing Andrea at 225 lbs. Most other sources have him listed around 240 lbs.
> 
> I'd rather have Andrea then three out of the four other Raptors SF/PF's you listed.


I got the 225 from DraftExpress...anyway, it's irrelevant. I'd take Bargnani over most of the Raps' SF/PFs too, anyone in their right mind would. It's just that I think we have sufficient depth and skill at his position, especially with Charlie's progress. We'd be better off drafting one of the many equally strong prospect at a different position - SG and C being the main needs. I'd much rather have Brandon Roy, Ronnie Brewer, Adam Morrison, or Rodney Carney. If we go big with our first pick, I'd like Williams or maybe Noah (Aldridge if he put on some serious muscle and showed some more center skills). Basically, with the Raptors in their current state, I'd be against drafting any perimeter-type big man, unless he also had a dominant inside game on both ends of the court. Bargnani doesn't, therefore I don't want him. Maybe you have a different opinion, but I believe that another big guy who doesn't like playing inside is the last thing we need, no matter how talented he turns out to be.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

By the way, Marcus Williams reminds me a lot of Deron Williams. Take it however you like, I'm just throwing that out there.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Emeka is a poorman's Shelden.


ity:
I never use these things but this was truly worthy of one.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

We had one of these threads last year, and I picked Villanueva as a guy I didn't want the raps to draft. Nor was I alone in that opinion. We know how that turned out, so I think I'll abstain this year.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Given the parity, who can say who actually is the BPA this year? That is why position will influence.


that's very true. but who was the BPA last year and the year b4 that?

i think the management has to really factor in potential and willingness to succeed. like the year hoffa was drafted, we kno now that iggy was the bpa, but did we kno that b4?

i kno that drafting BPA takes into account the position that a player plays and i kno that all teams view different players as the best. all i'm hoping for this draft is that we do not pass up on a guy like morrison or something if we have the chance. in general, players who play well in college bball doesnt mean that they will translate well in the NBA, but there are those who are exceptions to that. i juss hope we dont have another surprise pick like the hoffa one, ie marcus williams 5th overall!! or somethin like that.


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

I guess it depends where we're picking at.

Take JJ; I don't mind Redick, but only if it's in the 13-18 range (I know, relatively impossible). When the balls are rolled and done, I'll get back on this.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

The BPA has nothing to do with how talented the draft class is, and everything to do with picking the players who appears to have the best combination of talent and potential. You cannot say who is the BPA now, because A) we don't know what the Raps picks will be and B) we don't know who the teams before the Raps will draft.

The only time we'll know who the BPA is either when the Raps win the first overall pick or when it's the Raps turn.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

what's BPA?


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> what's BPA?


lol "better point average"

just kiddin' if you dont know by now its best play available.. 


as for as NOs - say no to Reddick!!!
YES - Aldridge/Gay/Shelden/Noah/O'Bryant/and a bunch of others


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

kirk_2003 said:


> lol "better point average"
> 
> just kiddin' if you dont know by now its best play available..
> 
> ...




Best Player Available, damn, how did I not figure that out.
lol


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## ATM (Jun 23, 2003)

SickGame said:


> Brandon Roy is the safest and best pick out of the lottery. He is, hands down, the best player in the country. He'll fill up our need for a second 2 guard to give MoPe some rest/take over in a few years. Great shooter, solid slasher, plays hard on both sides and a leader.


I love Brandon Roy and think he is a great player and great fit for the Raptors, but hands down best player in the country seems to be going a bit far.

*Players I don't want:*

*Adam Morrison: * Great player and I love his game and I'm sure he will be successful as a scorer in the league, but he plays SF and he is a offensively minded player, we already put points on the board, our defense is what needs to improve and Morrison is the last guy to help us out in that respect.

*Andrea Bargnani:* I've only seen highlights, but we don't really need another athletic PF who can shoot the J, we already have two of them.
*
Josh McRoberts:* He never really impressed me at Duke, seems like he gets all of his points off of dunks and layups and doesn't play tough in the middle, if we were looking at an ACC PF I would prefer Hansbrough.

*Rodney Carney:* Sure he can jump and has great defensive potential, but outside of a streaky jumper what does he give us that Joey Graham doesn't. Plus I only saw him play 3 times this year and 5 overall (not a big enough sample really) and he had 2 off games.

*Patrick O'Bryant:* Looked horrible vs. Joey Dorsey. Noah or Aldridge would be much prefered as centres.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

icehawk said:


> ity:
> I never use these things but this was truly worthy of one.


Don't pity me. We'll see, won't we. I'm keeping a list.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Has there been a draft in recent memory where winning the lottery meant less than this upcoming draft?

Forget about top-3... there is hardly a top-5.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

speedythief said:


> Has there been a draft in recent memory where winning the lottery meant less than this upcoming draft?
> 
> Forget about top-3... there is hardly a top-5.


 :banghead: :rocket: :allhail: 

am i crazy or whatever he said, he said it in a way that was said by not saying what was supposed to be said, which i could have said a little better. :clap:


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I'm seeing a top 5 that looks pretty decent actually. I'd agree about winning the lotto though. Aldridge isn't going to look like a star as a rookie, probably closer to Bogut. Bargnani isn't going to be ready either, especially as most teams already have capable power forwards (enter Hawks?).

Even in a very talented and deep draft class like last year you had Martell Webster going at #6. Just a couple of years ago Dunleavy went #3!


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

What do you guys think of Patrick O'Bryant? Do you think he could develop into a good center? I havent seen him play. I like his profile on NBAdraft.net though. 7 footer with good length and size, but can he play?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I remember the 2003 draft was touted as a 3 player draft. Clearly, it was at least 4 players and one of the 3 has been garbage. Thus 2 stars went unaccounted for.

There will be a couple of stars out of this draft. But who?


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> I remember the 2003 draft was touted as a 3 player draft. Clearly, it was at least 4 players and one of the 3 has been garbage. Thus 2 stars went unaccounted for.
> 
> There will be a couple of stars out of this draft. But who?


I would say right now the player that looks like he has the most star potential is rudy gay. Tyrus Thomas i think is the player most likely to become a star from this years draft. I dont know how anyone could dispute that. 

Tony Kornhieser.
"tyrus thomas has only one skill. the PG flips the ball 4ft above the rim, tyrus thomas graps it with both hands and throws it DOWN. Thats good enough for me." :banana: 



PS

I said on this thread that i dont like Sheldon Williams because he is a "boring" prospect and the fact that he is a 4. If he is an Antonio Davis type player and can play the 5 for the raps, I guess he wouldnt be a bad pick. Still more of a band aid solution though.


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

What is every1's problem with Rudy Gay?

Do you guys understand how rediculous his interior/perimeter defence can be for us at the 3 position. I think a front court of Rudy/Bosh/Villy is fine, and they can all compliment each other on both ends of the floor.

If you guys don't like his 'passion', no1 liked Villys either, and he turned out just fine. Personally, I think it has a lot to do with Jim Calhoun. He's such a great, great coach but he's a hot head, and you guys need to understand that he turns out his NBA calibre players into good player at the next level a la Rip,Ray,Villy,Okafor,Gordon etc..


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

The_Notic said:


> What is every1's problem with Rudy Gay?
> 
> Do you guys understand how rediculous his interior/perimeter defence can be for us at the 3 position. I think a front court of Rudy/Bosh/Villy is fine, and they can all compliment each other on both ends of the floor.
> 
> If you guys don't like his 'passion', no1 liked Villys either, and he turned out just fine. Personally, I think it has a lot to do with Jim Calhoun. He's such a great, great coach but he's a hot head, and you guys need to understand that he turns out his NBA calibre players into good player at the next level a la Rip,Ray,Villy,Okafor,Gordon etc..


GREAT POINT

I love the mentallity of all those players. They all seem to have similar mentalities too. Not overly loud but all posess a quite confidence, and all are about basketball 100%.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

speedythief said:


> Has there been a draft in recent memory where winning the lottery meant less than this upcoming draft?
> 
> Forget about top-3... there is hardly a top-5.


How about last year? Bogut was desireable, but he had question marks, and certainly few if any thought he'd be an immediate impact player. Marvin Williams had the "potential" label, but hadn't shown much. Chris Paul had size issues. Gerald Green was supposed to be the next T-Mac, but wouldn't work out with anyone. Martynas Andriuskevicius was hyped up, but the Darko debacle had everyone spooked about him. I remember people arguing if the draft was 2-deep, 4-deep, or 6-deep.


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

The_Notic said:


> What is every1's problem with Rudy Gay?
> 
> Do you guys understand how rediculous his interior/perimeter defence can be for us at the 3 position. I think a front court of Rudy/Bosh/Villy is fine, and they can all compliment each other on both ends of the floor.


i agree, he has the physical attributes to be a very, very good defender at the next level given his length, lateral quickness, and anticipation for a man his size, but the thing is, does he have the defensive intensity to be a good defender in the league? def. intensity is huge when it comes to being a good defender...you have to want and take pride in playing in defense...thats y guys like bowen and artest are such good defender...not only do they the physical charecteristic needed to be a good defender, but there def. intensity is second to none...they're giving 110% on the def. end at all times...i dont really see that kind of commitment with gay...not to say he'll be a bad defender, but i dont think he'll be as good as you make him out to be on the def. end...


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

i agree with ppl not wanting mcroberts...hes not ready at all for the next level...he has some nice althleticism but how far along is he in terms of tangible basketball skills? does he have a post game? no. reliable perimeter game? no. good interior defender? nothing special. rebounding? fair to ok...this guy really doesnt do it for me...i think he'll play at the next level eventually, but imo, unless theres some significant strides in his game, he'll be an 8th guy in the rotation type...


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

interesting that draftexpress have the raps taking noah now...unfortunately, i havent been able to catch that many games in the tournament and none of the florida games, so cant offer much of an opinion on him...however, i like what i hear from the draftexpress scouting profile, which is encouraging to me as i agree with them the majority of the time...im intrigued that this guy has only played give or take 1yr of his entire life at the 5 and is already competing at a high level and even dominating as of late, at a major division 1 school...it could be we're just scratching the surface with his potential...also, you can call me elitist or what have you, but i love the fact that his dad was a professional athlete...for whatever reasons, sons of professional athletes seem to adjust and perform well when they get to the pro leagues...so defenitely another check mark for me in that regards...im intrigued by this guy and wouldnt mind hearing what other posters think of him...


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

to go out on a limb, the guy that i have been able to watch that i really like is shawne williams...he didnt have a great tournament and from all accounts, has been maddeningly inconsistent all yr, but his skill set is tremendous...has range out to the 3pt line, can post up smaller guys, unselfish plyr, relatively good passer and bball iq, good lateral quickness for a man 6'9 etc...love this guys ability on the basketball court...if he comes out this yr, im sure hes gonna be fantastic at the ind. workouts and zoom up the draft lists of many teams, if hes not there already...he might be a lil bit of a stretch where we're probably gonna end up picking, but not as much as ppl think...this guy is real good...


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

no_free_baskets said:


> interesting that draftexpress have the raps taking noah now


I would take Roy or Gay.

If u take Gay u gotta deal Bonner.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I will kill myself if we take J.J. Reddick, or Shelden Williams (top 5-8)..


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

the more i think about the more i think that the raps are going to sign a FA center this offseason and draft one of the swing men or point guards with our pick.
- Foye Roy, Carney, or Gay.


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## dtron (Jun 11, 2004)

iam not sure if its already been discussed but how the hell is the franchise that drafts gay ever going to sell his jersey.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

The_Notic said:


> What is every1's problem with Rudy Gay?
> 
> Do you guys understand how rediculous his interior/perimeter defence can be for us at the 3 position. I think a front court of Rudy/Bosh/Villy is fine, and they can all compliment each other on both ends of the floor.
> 
> If you guys don't like his 'passion', no1 liked Villys either, and he turned out just fine. Personally, I think it has a lot to do with Jim Calhoun. He's such a great, great coach but he's a hot head, and you guys need to understand that he turns out his NBA calibre players into good player at the next level a la Rip,Ray,Villy,Okafor,Gordon etc..


People compare him to CV in that he did not focus at all times. Charlie played 20+ mins and had super stats. Rudy just does not strike me as someone who really cares. He never showed me he could really dominate and his team certainly needed him to. I like his D, but perimeter D is not a priority with Mo and a developing JG.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

vigilante said:


> I will kill myself if we take J.J. Reddick, or Shelden Williams (top 5-8)..


Can I get that in writing. :makeadeal


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> People compare him to CV in that he did not focus at all times. *Charlie played 20+ mins and had super stats.* Rudy just does not strike me as someone who really cares. He never showed me he could really dominate and his team certainly needed him to. I like his D, but perimeter D is not a priority with Mo and a developing JG.


???

Charlie averaged about 13 ppg and 8 rpg in college, playing over 25 minutes a game.

Rudy averages about 15 ppg and 7 rpg in slightly more time.

Could you imagine JG or MoP on the floor at the same time as Gay?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

shookem said:


> ???
> 
> Charlie averaged about 13 ppg and 8 rpg in college, playing over 25 minutes a game.
> 
> ...



CV in 25.8 min got 13.6, *8.3* and 1.8 blks with .521 FG%

Gayboy in 30.8 min got 15.2, 6.4 and 1.6 with .461 FG%


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> CV in 25.8 min got 13.6, *8.3* and 1.8 blks with .521 FG%
> 
> Gayboy in 30.8 min got 15.2, 6.4 and 1.6 with .461 FG%


I thought they rounding off was obivious.

Besides, my point was that you claimed that Charlie had 'super stats', which may be true, but in that case so does Gay.

And you didn't answer the question.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

NBAdraft.net has the Bobcats taking Thomas and the Raps taking Bargnani...:laugh:

I'm know you should take the BPA 99% of the time (as we learned with Hoffa/Iggy), but there comes a point where you just can't take any more players at one position. Both teams are absolutely _stacked_ at PF.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

shookem said:


> I thought they rounding off was obivious.
> 
> Besides, my point was that you claimed that Charlie had 'super stats', which may be true, but in that case so does Gay.
> 
> And you didn't answer the question.


I don't call 5 more mins "slightly more time" on an average basis, CV is much better.

And I don't want 3 swings on the floor at once. None have a super handle. That would be one small yet athletic lineup.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

RaptorsCB4 said:


> NBAdraft.net has the Bobcats taking Thomas and the Raps taking Bargnani...:laugh:
> 
> I'm know you should take the BPA 99% of the time (as we learned with Hoffa/Iggy), but there comes a point where you just can't take any more players at one position. Both teams are absolutely _stacked_ at PF.


When you can find a true C or a true PG in this year's draft that warrants a top 10 pick, let us and Bryan Colangelo know.

For me though, it's pretty hard to be fouling up the pick if the this team does happen to fall into the 4-6 range. Tyrus Thomas, Lamarcus Aldrige, Andrea Bargnani, Adam Morrison, Shelden Williams, Randy Foye, Marcus Williams, Tiago Splitter are just some of the names whom I'd consider using the pick on. This draft is so wide open that I don't think there's not much discrepancy of talent in the top 10 pick range.

If I were making the decisions, I'd go for Bargnani since he's the one who really stands out in this year's draft, regardless on what position scouts have him pegged for.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

yea, we can always find suitors for the PF's we have on our team

what team in the nba doesnt want a chris bosh or charlie villanueva?


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

trick said:


> If I were making the decisions, I'd go for Bargnani since he's the one who really stands out in this year's draft, regardless on what position scouts have him pegged for.


For some reason, this is the guy I can see BC picking up if he's available. He likes unconventional line-ups and mentioned that he wants to bring more international players to Toronto. Bargnani seems very interesting.. 7 foot, very fluid, can shoot the hell out of the ball.. lots of Euro scouts are saying he's the best one in the draft. I wouldn't be devastated if we picked up another 4 in the draft. Just give them Sow's and Bonner's minutes. A Bosh/Bargnani/Villanueva line-up would just be sick. 

Don't be surprised to see us trade that pick, though. I don't see BC re-signing James.. he said he likes playmaking point guards and said he isn't going to give him an 'Alvin Williams deal' (too much money for too long to keep fans happy).


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

y'know what, if there were anyone, it'd probably be marcus williams. i dunno what it is about the kid, but i just wouldn't want him on the raptors. i don't think i can put my finger on it- i know i can't- but if i had to oversimplify his game, in terms of its conversion to the pro level, i'd say he's... too patient. too patient for me as a fan, probably, but also too patient for the raptors as a team and, imo, too patient for the level of success we want to achieve. 

who knows, he'll probably turn out, but i'm uncomfortable with him at the moment. if we took him, i know i'd be a little disappointed for a while- until he proved me wrong or whatever.

peace


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

narrator said:


> Player I don't want:
> 1. Rudy Gay
> 2. Adam Morrison/J.J. Redick (draft spot will be too high for them, in my opinion)
> 3. Shelden Williams
> ...



maybe you should watch rapstv
cuz morrison and reddick aren't the same player and shouldn't be categorize the same way. I was hating on morrison but he has heart

rudy gay will be an NBA player

and why would you pick marcus williams is not even a lottery pick he is projected in the lates teens eary 20s


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> People compare him to CV in that he did not focus at all times. Charlie played 20+ mins and had super stats. Rudy just does not strike me as someone who really cares. He never showed me he could really dominate and his team certainly needed him to. I like his D, but perimeter D is not a priority with Mo and a developing JG.


Lol.... everything your saying about Rudy right now, is what was being said about Villy. And Joey Graham's D is terrible, like, I havent even seen glimpses of good defence from him. Is it too much to ask for a couple of nice defensive plays in a whole season from Joey to make us beleive. 

Rudy's D >>>>>> Joey Graham's D

And oh yeah, Reddick & Shelden Williams will SUCK in the NBA.

P.S. And this Duke thing is getting out of hand man, Please Just Stop!!


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

trick said:


> When you can find a true C or a true PG in this year's draft that warrants a top 10 pick, let us and Bryan Colangelo know.


We shouldn't go for either - we need a swingman scorer. Brandon Roy comes to mind as the obvious pick, Rodney Carney or Rudy Gay if we wanted to go for a high-risk high-reward gamble. Heck, maybe even Adam Morrison, especially if he can improve his footspeed and handle to play the 2. There's no real PGs outside of Marcus Williams and he's not a Top 10 talent. I'd prefer a wing, but I wouldn't at all mind grabbing Shelden Williams with our pick, if his pre-draft measurements are 6'9"+. If Shelden turns out to be too small, IMO we have to go with Roy, Carney or Morrison.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

The_Notic said:


> Lol.... everything your saying about Rudy right now, is what was being said about Villy. And Joey Graham's D is terrible, like, I havent even seen glimpses of good defence from him. Is it too much to ask for a couple of nice defensive plays in a whole season from Joey to make us beleive.
> 
> Rudy's D >>>>>> Joey Graham's D
> 
> ...


The more you post **** like this the more I'll give it. You don't like it put me on ignore, or don't bloody visit. Where did I jump on the Redick to the raps Bandwagon?


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> The more you post **** like this the more I'll give it. You don't like it put me on ignore, or don't bloody visit. Where did I jump on the Redick to the raps Bandwagon?


I just think its annoying how everything has to be about Duke with your posts.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

The_Notic said:


> I just think its annoying how everything has to be about Duke with your posts.


OK smartguy. Go find some posts where all I talk about is Duke, without a valid reason within the context of the discussion.

So I want Shelden Williams. BFD. If Shelden were on another team with the same stats he would still address the Raptors needs.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

I don't want the fat guy on lsu, or the fat guy on george mason


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