# Game Thread: Raptors @ Blazers - TSN, 10:00 PM



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

:insertrapsstartinglineuphere:

vs

:insertblazersstartinglineuphere:

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Zach Randoph fantasy holders, prepare a big night from him. maybe bonner will do a more servieable job? then again :nonono:

how will chris get up for this game after doing so poorly in their first meeting? 

they may have no ray allen, but if they continue to give up open peimter looks to the likes of Damon, DA and NVE, the raps will be in for a long one.

i hope the raps don't make Theo Ratliff look like an offensive powerhouse.

how many minutes will Rose get? Vince?

the bench has looked so solid for this team thus far. they were a big part of the win in the first meeting, so let's hope they don't fall short in this game.

over/under 180.1 pts.
over by 9 pts.

the raps will probably let randolph have his way, but if they can contain the players around him from having above-average nights, i'd expect the raps to win.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Redemption game for both teams. Could go either way. I still believe that VC will get his shot in order sooner or later and start lighting it up. Hopefully today's the day. 

Also, there's not reason Bosh can't play well against Portland. 

Would like to see Araujo get some time with Bosh playing big minutes last night.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Hopefully Jalen can have a good comeback after his sorry shooting performance the other night.

Pushing him to the second unit is an option. I like Mo Pete recieving those VC sendouts a little more than JR. However, I think he'll be starting.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

We're gonna get killed. We were lucky to win the last game at home, even though the Blazers started to dominate the boards in the 2nd half. If the Raptors have any chance of winning tonight they'll have to box out, and limit those offensive rebounds for the Blazers.


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

I think last nights game will be bigger then we think...we needed that game last night that one **** killed us.... we would be 5-1 now if we drop this game tonight were only one game over 500.... htis is a make or break game for us


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## HotShot (Nov 12, 2004)

Yeah I think last nights game was definately one their gonna wish they had later on. Hopefully they can redeam themselves with a win tonight. VC has got to put a game together tonight and that means good shot selection, defense and keeping himself on the floor (not getting benched, not picking up all those fouls).

I think the raps will pull this one out:

Raps 99
Blazers 94


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I think the Raptors will win this one, but I expect Bosh to struggle, as he always does against that massive frontcourt of Portland.. and VC has got to have a huge game for us.. we need a big breakout game from VC sooner or later, and this is the best oppurtunity.


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

im lookin forward to another 10+ assists game by skip..


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## kmart9 (Oct 31, 2004)

I didnt see the first game because it was blocked out by sportsnet ontario so i didnt see how bosh struggled. Raps are gonna bust out and win by 10 on the road. Gotta contain zach and shareef tough.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

trick your threads suck dude.


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Redemption game for both teams. Could go either way. I still believe that VC will get his shot in order sooner or later and start lighting it up. Hopefully today's the day.


I've said that for the past 2-3 season, and almost gave up that hope already, until that 25pts game from Vince....but he slipped again....nowadays, 20+pts seems to be a miracle for Vince....25pts is like Vince having that 51pts game against the Sixers....

anyhow, i hope he does get at least 20ppg....


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JL2002</b>!
> 
> 
> I've said that for the past 2-3 season, and almost gave up that hope already, until that 25pts game from Vince....but he slipped again....nowadays, 20+pts seems to be a miracle for Vince....25pts is like Vince having that 51pts game against the Sixers....
> ...


I'd bet on it.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Vince Carter is going to be collapsed very hard by teams because of his superior athleticism.

Something I was *****ing about Vince in my mind is that when he is going to his left at full force on drive, USES YOUR BETWEEN THE LEGS MOVE AND CHANGE THE DIRECTION AND GO TO YOUR RIGHT FOR POWER DRIVES AND SLASHES.

Scouting reports have that Vince is one dimensional on drives, never uses a pull up jumper to his advantage, never uses fakes to throw the defenders off. Aside from the low dribble crossover he does time to time, he relies on pure explosiveness to get by players. You can do that when in your fiurst couple of seasons. You were younger, and team couldnt find out your weaknesses.

You see a lot of times Carter does his extra between the legs move *AFTER* the officals blew the whistle. But was it because Carter cant *DO* that move in game situations? Like he couldnt do his between the legs dribble effectively when he is going full force on drives?

Carter is alomost 28, he needs those practiable skills to score 30 points a game WITHOUT shooting in early offense like T-mac.

Vince Carter to me is one of the few shooting guards that can win a championship as the first option. Because he has the physical talent to do so but I thought he could pick up those practiceable skills gradually year after year...

But I might be wrong the first time that Vince Carter is just one of thoses like Ray Allen, T-mac since he should be in his prime now. He hasnt really improved his one on one moves in teh past few years. He has much better court vision but his skills SUX!


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

man i hope the Raps win tonight, its almost halftime and they're trailing


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

Carter continues to blow chunks


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## d_sizzle_16 (Aug 21, 2004)

wow, jalen and skip are clutch


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Its official Vince is in a slump


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

surprise surprise, once again we come back with VC on the bench.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

another HEARTBREAKING LOST!!


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

ouch again


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Something is seriously wrong with Carter....I mean I'll go as far as saying that he might even be tanking in the hope of getting traded....but I'm really saddened because he is next to AI and T-Mac my favorite wing player by far...I know he can do better than this but something's wrong. He's 27 and he should still have his explosiveness for a few years to come...the nnumbers don't lie...here's a guy who can not only slash you to pieces and jump over you but who can also shoot the lights out. So what's the dig ? What's happened to him ?


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## Theberge43 (Nov 2, 2004)

Damn I was watching updates on ESPN.com and they had a tying 3 by Lamond ...
Did he take it too late ?


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

First, big ups for the Raps to come back from being down by 20

so did anyone else notice that they let the clock run about 2 seconds after the Rose dunk from 31 to 29, not a big deal until the raps lose cause the clock runs out by a split second

I just want to say that Carter laughing on the bench with the team down, late in the 4th is not cool
the franchise player should not be happy to be on the bench at that point in the game. its time for Carter to go, and thats it, time to get someone who wants to play

these last two losses suck
but the team is deffinetely promissing


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Theberge43</b>!
> Damn I was watching updates on ESPN.com and they had a tying 3 by Lamond ...
> Did he take it too late ?


yea it was late but not by much


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> 
> 
> I just want to say that Carter laughing on the bench with the team down, late in the 4th is not cool
> ...


the whole team was laughing during the loss in sacreamento so whats your point [strike]lay off vince nuts[/strike]


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

losing by 20 and losing by 3 is two different things
20 the team didnt show up
by 3 i think you can figure it out


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>d_sizzle_16</b>!
> wow, jalen and skip are clutch


but yet yesturday everyone was saying jalen was finished and we should trade him see how people are


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## HotShot (Nov 12, 2004)

What a Game!! Lamonds shot was like a millisecond to late. I am disgusted with Vince, I just dont get it any more. He's got all the talent in the world but no motivation to do anything with it. What a pathetic effort, 4 pts!!!! The entire time he was out there he just standed around looking uninterested. He played terrible D, never ran the floor and continued to shoot that damn fadeaway. I wonder if Vince is playing to leave because i cant imagine any player with that much talent playing like that.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> losing by 20 and losing by 3 is two different things
> 20 the team didnt show up
> by 3 i think you can figure it out


so what is it a crime to crack smile how do you know vince ain't mad laughing could be a way to let off stress what more can vince do on the bench like I said so many times yall sweat vince to much yall hold him under microcope why is it that vince name comes up before how great the game was


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

you know how i know
its when derek anderson makes one move, and vince backs off and doesnt even get a hand in his face, as he is sinks the shot
mo pete goes in, actually plays D and guess what we start coming back
obviously its not all vince, but come on the guy is the "franchise player" everyone expects him to step it up, set the example
and all is see is him wanting out and not really caring what happens in the game


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Ha ... the so called "franchise" has been benched in the 4th Q in 2 of the last 3 games. The guy is completely useless now. Not only can he not defend but he can't even score.


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## kmart9 (Oct 31, 2004)

Damit, if vince doesnt get into the flow of sam mitchells offense than we will lose games. I hate it when he just settles for those damn jumpers, he really needs to be more aggressive. Ive really been pulling for vince but slowly im getting tired of him and i think he should be traded if he continues to play as he has been playing.

Great comeback game from rose from last night, really got the raptors back in to it!! Rafer did really good as well, I gotta get his jersey. 

The raptors really should be able to come back from back to back loses and beat la and denver. They really need to dominate the first quarters.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> you know how i know
> its when derek anderson makes one move, and vince backs off and doesnt even get a hand in his face, as he is sinks the shot
> mo pete goes in, actually plays D and guess what we start coming back
> ...


and u assume all this from a simple smile on the bench...give Vince & the team a break back to back night on the west coast and in a different time zone if vince come back and drops 30 next game he'll be god in everybody eyes again yall more flip flop than john kerry


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Its official Vince is in a slump


now it's official? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

to anyone who has seen the raptors post up segment with mitchell talking to the press, he has made it very evident that he has grown confused and impatient with carter's melancholic play.

but what i really love (vince-apologists are so going to hate me for this) was that mitchell did not let vince back in the game during the final 3 minutes. we all know how clutch vince is. we all know how much vince wants to take that big shot to give the raps the lead for good. but the fact of the matter is that vince has played like crap for 3 quarters and the team without vince was in a position to win it all. if they're going to win, give the players who got to that spot all the credit for winning the game. vince carter did not deserve to get an opportunity to go for that game-winning shot. if vince wants the glory, he has to work for the little things that'll get him there. do not hand him anything.

besides vince, rose prior to this game has been playing so very sub-par as well. i'm glad to see that he got the message mitchell was sending out in last night's, post game intervew. he did make some questionable shots, but he also made more good shots, whether they went in or out. i mean, when was the last time anyone saw rose posterizing anybody?

anyways, good effort by the raptors. as soon as the raps put themselves in a position to win after being down by 20 in the fourth, i coudn't care less if they would end up winning or not. the fact is that the players on the floor never gave up, still maintained poise and composure, and stuck with the system that mitchell is preaching. i didn't think i could be very happy after a raps loss.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

i would love to see Carter put up 30 next game or 20 for that matter, i would love to see him play D to, that would be great
and thats the problem were waiting

and are you saying you would have voted for Bush?
thats like saying i eat **** for breakfest


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> Ha ... the so called "franchise" has been benched in the 4th Q in 2 of the last 3 games. The guy is completely useless now. Not only can he not defend but he can't even score.


like I said in the Seattle thread new coach new system it will take time to gel if u really think about it the team still playing its self into shape I think the bar was raised to high when they started 4-1 its still early if vince is playing this way by christmas or so then raise the bar for concern but don't stress him now let the man breathe


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> and u assume all this from a simple smile on the bench...give Vince & the team a break back to back night on the west coast and in a different time zone if vince come back and drops 30 next game he'll be god in everybody eyes again yall more flip flop than john kerry


stop with the excuses and this "back-to-back" garbage. i expect this team to play to win, no matter what game it is. do not excuse anything because it's a back-to-back.

and once you've read from mitchell's post game comments in the past two games, he has become very pissed and very impatient with the players who aren't playing the way he wants them to play. he's pissed, i'm pissed, others are pissed, it's ok. as fans, we have every right to be pissed at a player who doesn't want to actually _play_.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> i didn't think i could be very happy after a raps loss.


Yea, Im kinda on a high myself. Go figure.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and that should be the focus of this topic this comment I agree 100% on


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

One thing we can take away from this early part of the season is that the Raptors have depth this year, not just a couple of players that could be good rotation guys. Our bench is excellent and often better than our starting unit. We've made two major comebacks on the road, in the West, on an extended trip, both of them without our sixth man (D Marsh). Since when can the Raptors do that! Thanks Sam.

Another moster game from Zach Randolph. This kid eats us alive every time. It's not even his inside game that punishes us so much as it's his effortless jumpshooting. He is automatic almost anywhere inside the arc. It is extremely frustrating to watch him execute his offence.

DA and Damon did their backcourt thing again, jacking up tonnes of shots, but they both hit at a high clip today and when that happens the Blazers are tough to beat. They went 7-16 from the field each, and both of them played good defence. Derek Anderson had some very smart defensive plays in the first half.

Great game for Lamond Murray. The last foul he had on Damon was hard to swallow, especially considering how he wasn't close to stripping the ball and he was so far away from the basket it wasn't necessary at all. But he still played good defence for most of the game and shot the ball well. I have been very impressed with Lamond as of late.

CB4 had another solid outing. Zach and Theo are a nightmare for him, though. On one end he has to guard a bulky power forward who can shoot all the way out to twenty feet but can muscle-in for garbage points and offensive rebounds. On the other end you have the long, fast, athletic shotblocking machine. Regardless, Bosh shot 50% and went to the line again and again. His freethrow shooting was good tonight, too. On defence he got some important rebounds and managed to keep Ratliff from making an impact. Maybe in a couple of years he will be able to shut-down an offensive player of Randolph's calibre, too. Time will tell.

Chuck was annoying tonight. I didn't see Jalen playing any differently than he has been this season, except that his shots were falling in the fourth. But Chuck insisted on saying that Jalen was playing "controlled" and "in the system". I love Chuck but he is a little combatative when it comes to our players. A little media criticism of Jalen, a little bit of speculation on our part as to who Sam was talking about, and Chuck puts-on his armour and defends Jalen. Leo did it too. C'mon guys, lighten-up.


As for Vince... he wasn't working hard to get his points but otherwise I didn't think he was doing that badly. Before anyone accuses him of being a dud tonight, remember that Mitchell has already established that he won't put starters back-in just because they are starters. Mitchell plays who he is comfortable with and it was our second unit that nearly won us the game tonight. Just because Vince didn't get back in doesn't mean he's out of Sam's good graces. It is hard to watch Vince sitting on the bench apathetically when the game is so close so late, though.

Rafer Alston continues to be the team MVP.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> stop with the excuses and this "back-to-back" garbage. i expect this team to play to win, no matter what game it is. do not excuse anything because it's a back-to-back.
> ...


ok lets see you get out on the court and play a game 3hrs early back to back nights in different cities with not much rest with fast paced offence only the eleite teams can pull this off on nightly basis but it seems like you done this before its ok to be mad I understand that but don't talk reckless


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> like I said in the Seattle thread new coach new system it will take time to gel if u really think about it the team still playing its self into shape I think the bar was raised to high when they started 4-1 its still early if vince is playing this way by christmas or so then raise the bar for concern but don't stress him now let the man breathe


Sounds like someone is in denial. The first step is to admit you have a problem so that you can finally start to overcome it.
I too once suffered from Vince-Homerism but I eventually saw the light. It's a struggle but hopefully with patience and a lil hard work you can overcome this affliction as well.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

speedy, how could you not take anything away from carter in this game?

he made some petty fouls
he made very questionable shots (example, he was in a post-up position then take a few steps back which lead him going for a fade-away 3 pointer :uhoh: )
his defense was atrocious

how can he be left avoided in this game without criticism at all?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> ok lets see you get out on the court and play a game 3hrs early back to back nights in different cities with not much rest with fast paced offence only the eleite teams can pull this off on nightly basis but it seems like you done this before its ok to be mad I understand that but don't talk reckless


you're going to compare me to Vince?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

ok i'm done with you.

and can't you see that if vince just shows up to play that he's very capable of, we can be part of that list of elite teams? that we can be that good? that we can win the division and actually make an impact in the playoffs?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> 
> 
> Sounds like someone is in denial. The first step is to admit you have a problem so that you can finally start to overcome it.
> I too once suffered from Vince-Homerism but I eventually saw the light. It's a struggle but hopefully with patience and a lil hard work you can overcome this affliction as well.


 Vince-Homerism :laugh: thats weak I'll just take a pass on u


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> speedy, how could you not take anything away from carter in this game?
> 
> he made some petty fouls
> ...


I did say he didn't work hard enough for his points. Derek Anderson torched him on the offensive end, also. He was lethargic but this season has been characterized by our slow starts.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> how can he be left avoided in this game without criticism at all?


This is what people do. They ignore all of the negative aspects and only focus on what they want to see. I guarantee that if Vince were traded the vast majority of people here would change there tune. Of course there would always be a few who wouldn't but some people will never admit they are/were wrong, even in the face of irrefutable evidence.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> I did say he didn't work hard enough for his points. Derek Anderson torched him on the offensive end, also. He was lethargic but this season has been characterized by our slow starts.


hmmm, slow starts...i wonder who is partially responsible for that...


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> you're going to compare me to Vince?
> ...


point proven  ......as for us being elite I think your expections are to high were a few years from being on that level lets be honest were an playoff team at best sitting in the 6-8 seed


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> Vince-Homerism :laugh: thats weak I'll just take a pass on u


Just like you'll take a pass on acknowledging his piss poor play?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> point proven  ......as for us being elite I think your expections are to high were a few years from being on that level lets be honest were an playoff team at best sitting in the 6-8 seed


no.

if it wan't for vince these past few games, we would be sitting at 6 - 1 right now. 

SIX AND ONE.

that has got to stand out as being part of the elite class thus far into the season.

i have so much confidence in mitchell, alston, bosh, rose (if he can continue to taking smarter shots and not force anything), and the rest of the players into making the playoffs without vince. but with vince, this team can be so much more. 

i repeat, this team would be 6 - 1 if it wasn't for vince these past two games.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

So am I a Vince apologist/homer now because I won't hang tonights loss around his neck? I'm going to call every game the way I see it, like I always have around here. I don't think Vince's poor play was the deciding factor in tonights loss, but I am unnerved by the way he seems to be assimilating with the other players on the team.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> no.
> ...


I thought this was a team effort...what about jalen play as of late


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

I think someone already brought it up but it's very possible he's playing like this in order to force a trade, ala AD. The really amusing thing is I could see Vince actually believing that this is a good strategy to get what he wants. We all know demand rises as performance decreases.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> I thought this was a team effort...what about jalen play as of late


i've already stated that jalen was crap prior to this game. 

but tonite, his shot selections were pretty good, with some odd ones here and there . he even made a consistent effort to drive.


if he can continue this, then i give him my praises. if he resorts back to taking quick, long range shots, then i'll refert back to getting sick of him like i'm always used to.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> .
> ...


so in other words flip flop


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> so in other words flip flop


what part of "if he can continue this" do you not understand?

if rose continues to take 10 foot jumpers in transition, then yes i support that.

if rose continues to take wide-open 3pt'ers, then yes i support that.

if rose continues to drive to basket, then yes i support that.

if rose goes back to taking quick, long-range shots, then no i don't support that.

if rose continues to do post up plays that leaves him making a widshot with a no-call, then no i don't support that.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Is just me or Our Game Threads is going down.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

what a roller coaster ride. that game seemed like it had 40 quarters, not just 4.

anyway, tough loss. the team may have stolen a "moral victory" from portland (i don't know whether the blazers could even feel good about their _win_) but it was still disappointing for the most part. i don't know what the actual #'s were but i could've sworn the blazers scored on virtually every one of their possessions in the third quarter. i know they missed some shots, but they seemed to always hit the offensive glass hard, and i don't know how many rebounds the raptors had in the quarter- i think it was less than three. they may have all been on the offensive glass, too.

i think lamond murray is to be commended for his play tonight. covering theo ratliff in the closing minutes (and effectively!) must have been a chore. he was working on the boards and even went to the floor a couple of times. if we didn't have matt bonner, i would've given the "hardest working raptor" trophy to lamond. of course, as has already been pointed out, his foul on damon was absolutely awful- may have cost us the game. there wasn't much time left on the shot clock, we were in the penalty, damon was 30 feet from the hoop and he wasn't exactly ready to attack. but anyway... those things happen...

vince was awful. he was (imo) the worst raptor on the floor tonight- and by _far_. remember, i'm not taking these words lightly; he was clearly holding back the team more than anyone else. in fact, he seemed like the vince of last year (or even the year before)- the only good thing being that his surrounding cast was different, and positive players (like araujo, bonner and skip) seemed to neutralize vince's decidedly negative effect. 

i think vince is normally a better defensive player than he's given credit for being but tonight he was terrible. i don't buy the "i want to get traded so i'm going to sabotage the team" theory for a second; i don't think anyone truly believes that. but judging by his performance tonight, i can't really blame anyone for feeling that way. in my opinion, i think his statistical struggles on offense have indeed frustrated our superstar, and i think are part of the explanation for his weak play on defense, but i don't think of that as much of an excuse. i think there were several stops on vince that changed the complexion of the game tonight- and if he'd scored buckets on those possessions, would've likely brought out a different player for the rest of the night. 

it's unfortunate that he lets those things corrupt his approach, his small failures lead to bigger failures, we can't afford to have that from our superstar, but he's been like that for several years now. i think he would be the same way if he were on another team. that's part of who he is/who he's become; i thought mitchell would get around to him, and he still might, but tonight's result would suggest otherwise. i don't think vince has got to work harder or concentrate- i don't think it's that simple. i think he's "trying" pretty hard. he's just got to play better. 

one last point on mitchell: he's impressed me this season (on the whole) but i think he's "lost his touch" over the last two games. i don't think rose and carter needed to be criticized the way they were in last night's post-mortem, and certainly don't think he should be calling out carter like the way he did tonight. given recent history, i'm just not sure whether that'll do anything but hurt the team.

at the same time, we haven't seen such public challenges extended to our star in some years, so maybe it'll actually work. who knows... 

peace


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

after we losin every1 start fightin with each other..ya'll gotta come down..we lost, VC was crap but look again on the good side - Jalen had a good game, our bench was good and my man Rafer Alston aka Skip To My Loe is so amazing so far....
like jaken was good 2day, carter can be good in the up comin games, i didnt c the game (and all the games also) so i dunno realy how vince played i only watch the stats and i dunno why he plays like that, but remeber who he is..whats the air canada center without air canada himself??

this post just ment to cheer u up guys...wh have a long season..:grinning:


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## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

60 posts, 95 % crap

can we not start a post game vince sticky or something?

60 posts and nobody mentions Hoffa's 9 minutes, or that fact that Sow saw his first action of the season

I didn't see the game, can someone please tell me what happened without mentioning vince


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The starting 5 come out very slow, AGAIN. VC sets the tone by taking a long fadeaway from just inside the arc and continues to throw up J's all game. No effort to attack.

If it weren't for Skip, who was on fire from the 3 pt line, this game would have been over in the first quarter. He was the only good starter tonight in the first Q.

Starters were losing the first, then the bench comes in and they play GREAT. Murray was a beast. Hitting his shots, rebounding, getting to the hole, D. Bonner put up yet another great game. 

Araujo got some minutes and he looked very solid. Zack was driving hard to the rim on every other Raptor defender but not on Hoffa. Hoffa was banging bodies around under the rim which let Bonner and others grab boards. Even saw a nice jump hook from Hoffa where he put his left shoulder into the defender and went up strong. The defender felt it big time and even complained to the ref while rubbing his chest. Good sign.

Not sure why Mitchell pulled MoP and Murray to put Vince and Rose back in to end the 2nd Q. Bad move.

Start of 3rd Q and VC just gets torched by DA almost every play. DA goes for 16 in the quarter and just blew by VC for easy layups and shook him out of his shoes for wide open J's. Pathetic D. 

I expected Mitchell to pull VC after a timeout but he left the starters in the game to try and work things out. Really let them have it during the timeout, asking them to "tell him how they wanted to play, because they sure weren't playing his system" or words to that effect.

Starters finally come out with the Raps down 18 points. Too late.

Good D, some turnovers for easy points, and clutch 3 point shooting bring the Raps back to within 10 with lots of time on the clock (half the quarter left?) Some of the comeback has to be credited to Portland relaxing. I mean, this game looked to be over.

Jalen comes back in, which shocked me, but he is playing fantastic at this point. The shots he takes look similar to past shots but he is more under control, going up straight and without a hand in his face. Not forced at all. Jalen gets the game so close that Sam brings Skip back in after a short rest.

Portland seems to get the little calls in the paint on rebounds and putbacks. Refs give them the benefit of the doubt because they have dominated our bigs all game.

My PVR timed out on the last play of the game, but saw a quick replay of Murray hitting the three that would send the game into overtime, but it was a fraction of a second too late. Ratliff had blocked his first attempt at 3 but Mo got the ball back to Muray who had to hesitate for half a second as Theo or somebody flew by him for another block attempt, and then Lamond made the shot but just too late.

Murray had fouled Damon on the previous play with the Raps down 1 and a 4-5 second differential on the shot and game clock. Seemed like a weird move but I have to believe that Mitchell may have called for it because nobody was mad about it and the announcers made no comment about it.

Raps put Damon on the line twice in the last minute. Maybe his FT's are shaky lately?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

After all the posts I have read I just have to disagree with those who feel like Vince is trying to sabotage the team, besides yesterday's game I actually think Vince has been trying his best to help the team, unfortunately his shots arent going in and he is letting this get to him mentally. The man's in a slump and Mitchell is going to play those who can help the team. Happened with Jalen in the 4th at Seattle and now its happened with Vince, the sad part is we do need Vince to win, whoever says different well thats their opinion. I hope we can bounce back from all the tough losses and start winning again


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

no one is denying that vince is not helping to win. if i come across like that, that wasn't my intention. all i'm trying to say is that carter is not playing the game in a way that helps his team. the more quick shots he takes, the more it hurts them. the more times he doesn't look to create a high percentage shot, it hurts the team. and this has gone on for six of the seven games now and i'm just frustrated how he doesn't change the way he aproaches the game now, despite the fact that everyone has (especially rose albeit late but still has taken mitchell words to heart).

i'm not saying carter sucks. i'm not saying he's trying to make this team lose in order for babcock to finally trade him or any of that crap. my point is that everyone around him has changed, so why doesn't he?


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

can someone post some links to what mitchell has said after yesterdays loss....and i am probably the biggest Vince fans on this board...im the only person who thinks that VC is as good as or better then Tmac and Kobe....but yesterday was a very very very bad game for Vince Carter....and i really doubt the fact that he is trying to sabotage the team...becasue he did say that he is behind the team..what ever they ned to do..and he also said that he "Let the Team down" but VC really has got to pick it up...we dont pay him 14 mill to put up freaking 4 points...but i do think he is struggling..his shot is not dropping and he is wayyy to scarred to go to the rim..because he will get hurt or whatever hsi problem is.....saying this...we really should give him a few games before we asses the way he plays...i say give him like 20 games into the season..and then see how he plays...im almost positive that he will bounce back and lead us to Vicotry against teh Clips and Nuggets....what VC really needs is a Nationally televised game agaisnt the Hawks...if that doesnt bring him back i dont no what will....


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i keep seeing that Vince is struggling. well, the reason why he's struggling is because of his shot selection. 

vince is a strange guy. he doesn't want things easer for him. in a transition, rafer passes him the ball and what does he do? he takes a quick shot. vince is in a post up position, what does he do? he faces up his defender, take a couple of steps back and shoots a fade-away 3 pointer. vc is on the verge of going strong to the bucket, but what does he do? passes it onto a teammate standing on the 3 point line.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DAllatt</b>!
> 
> 
> can we not start a post game vince sticky or something?


for real its like raptors lose and everybody plays lets point the finger at vince


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i can't believe some people still defend VC even after sam mitchell has grown impatient with him

 :laugh:


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

im posting in this thread cuz i dont want to open a new one...
whats up with the game thread Vs. the clippers??


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> i can't believe some people still defend VC even after sam mitchell has grown impatient with him
> 
> :laugh:


Mitchell hasn't given up on Vince quite yet. He'll still be in the starting lineup.


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