# What Is With All This Isiah Thomas Support On The Board Lately?



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Some of you guys must have amnesia, but Isiah is probably one of the worst GM's alongside Layden that has ever worked for the NY Knicks. Now we are praising him and getting down on our knees kissing his feet like he is actually doing something. The only thing I'm going to give him credit for is the draft, and that's about it. Go ahead Grinch, disagree but I don't see why some of you guys think he is the best thing since slice bread. His signings and trades have been horrible. Give me Ernie Grunfeld any day of the damn week.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Come on Kitty, aren't you looking forward to Zeke giving a full MLE deal to Jumaine Jones this summer?

I can only imagine the players that are ready to change their first names like Luke Jackson, Marc Jackson and Linton Johnson just so they can qualify for the JJ program.


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## Cager (Jun 13, 2002)

I can imagine why Isiah weighs the puzzle pin on his lapel but I have not heard an actual explanation. Anybody know ?

Isiah has had mixed results in his career as GM/COACH and destroyer of the ABA. Except for this year, Isiah has been very good at drafting, terrible and maybe worse at trades but at least an average coach. He seems to connect with some players but his clock management skills suck. Overall, I wouldn't want him near my franchise.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Kitty , I dont think Zeke is the leagues best GM or even close to it but I do think he has done a decent job especially considering what he given to start with .

ernie grunfeld did a great job here , but he has been less than stellar since then ...and scott layden was bad ...just as bad at free agency ....worse even on trades ...and he couldn't draft to save his life.

at least with zeke i can say he's been great at drafting , good at trades, and rather poor at free agents .

2 out of 3 makes him pretty decent.

but ok i digress what makes him so bad that you dont even post reasons ...i'd like an outline of what makes him so much worse than his GM counterparts, all GM's make mistakes, i am pretty sure i did put on this site of at least 5 mistakes made the other teams in the division during his tenure.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Cager said:


> I can imagine why Isiah weighs the puzzle pin on his lapel but I have not heard an actual explanation. Anybody know ?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## C-Rave (Nov 24, 2006)

I'll be the first to admit that he is an idiot sometimes, but he has the Knicks playing well. They don't play defense, but they play well enough to be better than what they were last year. As far as him being the worse GM in the league is an accurate assesment. He makes stupid moves, plain and simple.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

cpawfan said:


> Come on Kitty, aren't you looking forward to Zeke giving a full MLE deal to Jumaine Jones this summer?
> 
> I can only imagine the players that are ready to change their first names like Luke Jackson, Marc Jackson and Linton Johnson just so they can qualify for the JJ program.


lol...


but kitty, one can only bash zeke for so long......it gets old after a while....i mean, how many times can we say zeke is horrible...

regardless how bad he is there are some things in which he does good....

what you cant take anyone saying anyrhing positive about isaiah?...you better start showing some love too because thomas is going to be here for 07-08.........:evilsmoke


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

It kills me how people seem to attempt to bash everything Isiah attempts to do. I think what most realist or realistic people tend to do is give credit when credit is deserved. We're not winning big but we are young and it's a learning experience. Funny how some of the same people that lobbied for the Knicks to rebuild are *****ing about the Knicks rebuilding. Wouldn't say I'm surprised since we have alot of hyprocrites as Knick fans booing a warrior like Ewing as a Knick but embracing him because they realized what he finally brought to the franchise.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> Kitty , I dont think Zeke is the leagues best GM or even close to it but I do think he has done a decent job especially considering what he given to start with .
> 
> ernie grunfeld did a great job here , but he has been less than stellar since then ...and scott layden was bad ...just as bad at free agency ....worse even on trades ...and he couldn't draft to save his life.
> 
> ...


At least you made some good points Grinch without resulting to name calling, sterotyping and talking out of your *** . It shows a great level of intelligence. As for Isiah having some good, I did state I like his draft choices but he must do a better job if Dolan gives him an extension when it comes free agency and trades. I can't remember the guy that we hired from Toronto, (lack of sleep) but he appears to be level headed so maybe he won't allow Isiah to make anymore stupid moves that will continue to set our salary cap to hell. As for the a listing of his "stupid moves", should I even bother? Come on Grinch, you should know better than that. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that some of his moves makes me believe he belongs in a special ed program. I just find it mind bogging that we licking his right toe like he is actually doing something around here. Have you read the Daily News? Last Sunday approximately 90% of Knicks fans want him gone. We are the best and the most intelligent fans in the world, so I'm sure that poll isn't misleading, and I'm not the only one in the minority here. 


We are still have the highest salary in the league, with absolutely nothing to show for it. As a "die-hard" Knick fan, all I want to see is a competitive basketball team. Call me spoiled, but I'm used to being constantly in the playoffs and being competitive since the X-Man days. I can't take mediocrity and real Knicks fans shouldn't put up with it either (especially with the high ticket prices) and it starts with the top. Isiah should not get a pass whatsoever, just because some of you guys think he is having a great year. What about the other years before? Did we give Scott Layden a pass? No, so why should he be an exception to the rule? I'm taking a page out of Spike Lee's "School Daze". WAKE UP!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

I still don't think much of him, either as a coach or as a GM, for what it's worth.  How's that for consistency?


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Ernie Grunfeld took the Bottom Basement Lottery team Wizards to the 7th floor of a 10-story building (A Postseason Team). 

Now, Isiah Thomas coaching this season is showing just how BAD he did as a G.M..
If Isiah would've got 23 WINS before 46 games was played his G.M. and Coaching status would've been praised for having such a young team that anyone can build with. But his favoritism to certain Players, and his NO-Game-Book-System with a 20-27 record makes him questionable as the first coach to be Fired this season, plus putting together such a poor excuse of expensive players that can not show leadership as a 500 record Team (Now that's a Poor G.M.). 

The season is not over yet, and the first 10 Knick games after the ALL-STAR Break 
should tell the full Isiah Thomas story of being the Knicks President for 3 seasons. 

Isiah Thomas better work hard with Curry, Crawford, and Jared Jefferies in practice to keep his JOB because those are the players it look like he depend on the most. 
When they would be my second option to everything cause they only play one-side of the court and that side of the court they play average B-Ball.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> I can't take mediocrity and real Knicks fans shouldn't put up with it either (especially with the high ticket prices) and it starts with the top.


Pefect point.

Knick fans are too happy with mediocrity, our record is 20-27! THATS! HORRIBLE!!! No way you can cut it. Even if were "rebuliding" like people now clam, he should have done that from the begining. He has been here for many years now and has gotten us the 10th-11th spot so for in the east.(A highly weak east) And some of you are kissing his feet like theres no tomorrow.

Biggest payroll and what do we get....mediocrity
Seat prices so high many families cant afford to see a knicks game at the garden and what do we get......mediocrity


As you can tell I think Zeke is a mediocore GM/COACH.

P.S( Dont get me wrong he has done some things right like been a great drafter, but thats about it)


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> Ernie Grunfeld took the Bottom Basement Lottery team Wizards to the 7th floor of a 10-story building (A Postseason Team).
> 
> Now, Isiah Thomas coaching this season is showing just how BAD he did as a G.M..
> If Isiah would've got 23 WINS before 46 games was played his G.M. and Coaching status would've been praised for having such a young team that anyone can build with. But his favoritism to certain Players, and his NO-Game-Book-System with a 20-27 record makes him questionable as the first coach to be Fired this season, *plus putting together such a poor excuse of expensive players that can not show leadership as a 500 record Team (Now that's a Poor G.M.). *
> ...


Looking out our team, the primary players within our rotation are not "expensive" in the slightest bit. In fact, you could make the arguement that some are underpayed for the kind of performances they are capable of as individuals. The main issues comes from the players not in our rotation. They are the ones who are vastly overpayed (Steve Francis, Malik Rose, Jerome James, and other players recently bought out). By next year this time, we'll lose about $40 million off our payroll and continually see it decrease over the course of the next few years. If anything, people should be praising Isiah for managing to put them in a situation where we can continue to get better and better while still have our payroll drop and inevitably lead to some financial flexibility. Like I said, we're rebuilding so I do not understand why people expected a title contender this year. It's just not realistic but thinking title down the road is considering how the young pieces are falling in together.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Truknicksfan said:


> Pefect point.
> 
> Knick fans are too happy with mediocrity, our record is 20-27! THATS! HORRIBLE!!! No way you can cut it. *Even if were "rebuliding" like people now clam, he should have done that from the begining.* He has been here for many years now and has gotten us the 10th-11th spot so for in the east.(A highly weak east) And some of you are kissing his feet like theres no tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Isiah began rebuilding this team from the moment he decided on acquiring 3 first round picks and turning them into Channing Frye, David Lee and Nate Robinson. Since then, he has continually followed the trend of getting young and younger. That would mean that we've been in rebuilding mode for less than 2 years and you mean to tell me that we should somehow be greater than mediocrity. Alot of these guys are just learning how to play the game on a NBA level so I think it's ridiculous how you expect this team to perform. Despite the presence of veteran guys on the team, only Stephon Marbury is an elder statesman in the rotation. All the other guys are young bucks still coming into their on. So let's be realistic about this one and see Isiah continue to work his magic with these young players.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> Knick fans are too happy with mediocrity, our record is 20-27! THATS! HORRIBLE!!!


UPDATE: Knicks now 20-28 after loses to the bobcats for the second time this month.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Truknicksfan said:


> UPDATE: Knicks now 20-28 after loses to the bobcats for the second time this month.


Yep, and we should give praise and thanks for having Isiah Thomas as our beloved GM/Coach. ::rolls eyes::


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

3 years of rebuilding doesn't guarantee a winning team...but ok not using 20/20 hindsight but actual honesty , what could have been done to make team better? and i'm not talking about 1 move here or there you got 3 years...what do you do that so much better? 

bear in mind free agency past the mle is not an option because H20's deal is still on the books.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> 3 years of rebuilding doesn't guarantee a winning team...but ok not using 20/20 hindsight but actual honesty , what could have been done to make team better? and i'm not talking about 1 move here or there you got 3 years...what do you do that so much better?
> 
> bear in mind free agency past the mle is not an option because H20's deal is still on the books.



LOL. I just have to laugh to myself. The very same people that support rebuilding don't apparently understand just how long it takes to rebuild. Honestly, how many teams have really managed to rebuild in 3 years? 

The Bulls have been rebuilding for 8 years and hardly a title contenders. The Hawks have been doing so for longer and are not even givens in the playoffs. Several other teams such as the Clippers, Warriors and Grizzlies also immediately come to mind who have rebuilt for decades at a time with little to no results. Yet, despite all this evidence staring people in the face, Isiah is suppose to turn water in to wine and make the Knicks good. I think people heavily underestimate the situation we were in. 

Just shedding those ridiculous contracts we had before would have taken 3 years to get rid of; imagine how long it would have taken to become good, LOL? Let's all relax and just wait for Isiah to continue to finish the pieces to the puzzle because it's obviously evident the team is on the rebound. We're beating some solid teams despite losing to a couple poor one's while battling injuries. All this is, is a learning curve that will ultimately benefit each one of these young players in their quest to become distinguishable NBA players. LOL, 20-28 is a pretty good place to be in becasue we could be the Hawks right now, LOL.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

i still think isiah sucks as a coach 

He`s` finally got a group of players that are capable and still they have made no real improvement 

ps...the key to this team is dumping Jamal Crawford,he makes too many stupid decisions and too many wild shots,He can score on an on-night but if his shot is off then your faced with him jacking up ill-advised bricks (He`s not gonna stop shooting just cause he`s missing)

Curry,Lee,Richardson,Marbury are decent starters,a SG with decent shot selection and defense would make all the difference IMO


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Isiah*

Has done a lot of good things in his tenure as GM. Sure, he took a flyer on some questionable signings, but the truth of the matter is that there were not tons of options. As a drafter, he is very, very good. I don't care for his coaching, however, He does not make his players accountable for bad play and he seems to not understand how to mix and match the talented pieces he has acquired. The total lack of defensive intensity as a team is completely baffling, considering his own abundance of it.`


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

Its an oldie but classic(Im sure most of u have seen it already)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM_fCfk7Bdk
:lol:


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

TwinkieFoot said:


> LOL. I just have to laugh to myself. The very same people that support rebuilding don't apparently understand just how long it takes to rebuild. Honestly, how many teams have really managed to rebuild in 3 years?
> 
> The Bulls have been rebuilding for 8 years and hardly a title contenders. The Hawks have been doing so for longer and are not even givens in the playoffs. Several other teams such as the Clippers, Warriors and Grizzlies also immediately come to mind who have rebuilt for decades at a time with little to no results. Yet, despite all this evidence staring people in the face, Isiah is suppose to turn water in to wine and make the Knicks good. I think people heavily underestimate the situation we were in.
> 
> Just shedding those ridiculous contracts we had before would have taken 3 years to get rid of; imagine how long it would have taken to become good, LOL? Let's all relax and just wait for Isiah to continue to finish the pieces to the puzzle because it's obviously evident the team is on the rebound. We're beating some solid teams despite losing to a couple poor one's while battling injuries. All this is, is a learning curve that will ultimately benefit each one of these young players in their quest to become distinguishable NBA players. LOL, 20-28 is a pretty good place to be in becasue we could be the Hawks right now, LOL.


The Suns rebuilt in three years.
The Magic appear to have been rebuilt and it only took them three years.
Toronto looks to be on their way to the playoffs. That took about four.
Chicago's roster is nothing like it was even four years ago. They had to rebuild after a failed rebuilding attempt.
Miami only took about four years to rebuild.


Rebuilding is possible to do in four years. As for the Hawks, really, do they have any less promise than we do now? Our current group cannot make the playoffs. In three years or so when Marbury is off the books along with Francis we'll still be over the cap. To go along with that, Atlanta really does have more of a surplus of quality youth. Right now, Frye is struggling and is an enigma, Nate cannot stay out of trouble, Balkman hasn't been seen enough, and Collins looks like a scrub. The only two ones who appear to be decent enough to be team leaders are Curry and Lee. Compare that to the Hawks who have Zaza Pachulia, Marvin Williams, Sheldon Williams, and Josh Childress, we're not much better than them. Even the standings show it. We're only 2.5 games up and they're in a better position to rebuild. Furthermore, their GM has a better track record of getting guys with the initials J.J.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

urwhatueati8god said:


> The Suns rebuilt in three years.
> The Magic appear to have been rebuilt and it only took them three years.
> Toronto looks to be on their way to the playoffs. That took about four.
> Chicago's roster is nothing like it was even four years ago. They had to rebuild after a failed rebuilding attempt.
> ...



The Magic have been out of the playoffs for about 5 years. Although they are projected to make it this year, you can't claim they have completely rebuilt with any tangible results. The same with the Raptors who had been out of the playoffs for about 6 years and still need more changes. In either case though, both teams were given more time to retool there roster and make the necessary adjustments. Besides, I would not say that we're not further ahead along the process than those team's were at this stage.

As for the Hawks, they may have more young players than the Knicks but that does not necessarily mean that they are where they need to be. The efficiency to which your reconstruction of a team isn't measured so much by the number of young players you bring in but the number of young players who can perform and ultimately win down the road. The Hawks have some good players but outside of Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Zaza Pachulia, Josh Childress and Marvin Williams, none of their young players are very relevant now or in the future.

P.S., after Marbury and Francis' contract expires, our payroll will be at $41 million. That would be very far below the cap especially when you consider that the cap has never decreased but increased over the years.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

I guess, you would rather have 3 years of horrible basketball instead of 4-5 years of rebuilding. It looks like we may miss the playoffs this year AGAIN.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

TwinkieFoot said:


> The Magic have been out of the playoffs for about 5 years. Although they are projected to make it this year, you can't claim they have completely rebuilt with any tangible results. The same with the Raptors who had been out of the playoffs for about 6 years and still need more changes. In either case though, both teams were given more time to retool there roster and make the necessary adjustments. Besides, I would not say that we're not further ahead along the process than those team's were at this stage.
> 
> As for the Hawks, they may have more young players than the Knicks but that does not necessarily mean that they are where they need to be. The efficiency to which your reconstruction of a team isn't measured so much by the number of young players you bring in but the number of young players who can perform and ultimately win down the road. The Hawks have some good players but outside of Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Zaza Pachulia, Josh Childress and Marvin Williams, none of their young players are very relevant now or in the future.
> 
> P.S., after Marbury and Francis' contract expires, our payroll will be at $41 million. That would be very far below the cap especially when you consider that the cap has never decreased but increased over the years.


We won't be under the salary cap when they expire unless you don't want to keep any of our current players.


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## knicksfan89 (Jan 6, 2005)

but we did win in orlando remember last night so a great win all around because the night before the magic ROUTED our hated rivals the nets by 33


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