# Defense vs Offense



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

How does defense win games in ways the offense doesn't? What makes one end of the floor so much more crucial than the other?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

to me offense is more important , the game is still based on who scores the most not who plays the best defense.

but defense is important it allows you to get wins when you cant score ...its a rallying force for a team , nothing builds chemistry quicker than strong defensive efforts , because good team defense needs good communication and knowledge of your team's schemes.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> How does defense win games in ways the offense doesn't? What makes one end of the floor so much more crucial than the other?



Defense shows more Chemistry amongs the Players than Offense does. 
A real good Defensive Team upset their oponents into trying anything to score. 

A good offensive team main strategy is to out score oponents making the game a high scoring game. 

The Knicks have PURE-DEFENSE in their Frontcourt Players and Pure-Offense in their Backcourt Players. Will it work? Yes! with a steady rotation that will have the Knick Players playing with chemistry on bothsides of the court.


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

In every sport, defense is the name of the game


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

kconn61686 said:


> In every sport, defense is the name of the game


The question is why and how does it contribute to winning?


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

TwinkieFoot said:


> The question is why and how does it contribute to winning?


Well I would say that in b-ball, a good defense creates scoring opportunities. Aside from the fast breaks created by steals, just the plain fact that the more you keep the ball out of an opponent's hands, the more chance you have to score. Trying to crack an effective, intimidating defense can be very disruptive for an offense.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

Everyone can score, but can everyone defend?


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

exactly gotham. sometimes u just need to "make a stop" to get momentum, or with the game on the line, but if you cant make a stop, your momentum is broken and you get the proverbial "dagger". 

NBA champs:

95-98 Bulls: Dominant defense
99 spurs: dominant defense
00-02 Lakers: excellent defense
04 pistons: dominant
05 spurs: dominant
06 heat: very good


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

kconn61686 said:


> exactly gotham. sometimes u just need to "make a stop" to get momentum, or with the game on the line, but if you cant make a stop, your momentum is broken and you get the proverbial "dagger".
> 
> NBA champs:
> 
> ...


all those teams were very good on offense too.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> all those teams were very good on offense too.



The Pistons weren't good on offense they were average at best. Plus a good defense makes it easier on your offense. I'll take a great defense over a great offense any day of the year.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

i still think defense is more important than offense.. You can score 50 points a game, say to be realistic 89, but if u have the right defense, u can hold ur opponent to a lesser score than yours. i agree with kiyaman, defense is gonna help chemistry alot more than offense is, it shows how well u listen to ur players and use ur voice to command urself and make actions. Stephon has to step that up this year. also, if u have offense and no defense, u can score 120 points a gamee, but still lose because of the lac of defenes and the chemistry ur team has.


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

2 years ago, the spurs made an absolute example out of the suns. a classic defense, grind it out team vs. a no defense, run and gun team. which style prevailed? spurs dominated them 4-1, phx only won game 4 while down 3-0. the nba is about defense


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

kconn61686 said:


> 2 years ago, the spurs made an absolute example out of the suns. a classic defense, grind it out team vs. a no defense, run and gun team. which style prevailed? spurs dominated them 4-1, phx only won game 4 while down 3-0. the nba is about defense


2 years ago the spurs were a top 8 team in both offense and defense ....

it wasn't a battle of offense vs. defense ...it was what happens when a team is good at both things vs. a team thats only good at 1 .

ps. the spurs did more than their share of gunning in that series....they avg. 108 points in those 5 games.


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

the spurs weren't gunning, the suns just could not stop them in the half court. the suns were such a weak defensive squad that a good team like the spurs picked it apart


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

BiG_DeuCE said:


> i still think defense is more important than offense.. You can score 50 points a game, say to be realistic 89, but if u have the right defense, u can hold ur opponent to a lesser score than yours. i agree with kiyaman, defense is gonna help chemistry alot more than offense is, it shows how well u listen to ur players and use ur voice to command urself and make actions. Stephon has to step that up this year. also, if u have offense and no defense, u can score 120 points a gamee, but still lose because of the lac of defenes and the chemistry ur team has.


A team can hold a team to 79 points on the flip side and still lose because of a lack of offense.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

kconn61686 said:


> the spurs weren't gunning, the suns just could not stop them in the half court. the suns were such a weak defensive squad that a good team like the spurs picked it apart


I'd have to agree with DaGrinch. The Spurs actually pushed the ball alot of occassions during that season. In fact, I was extremely surprised by there ability to excel on this end of the floor despite being a predominately half-court team. You do not score 108 points per game grinding it out because part of that includes milking a majority if not all of the shot clock.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

kconn61686 said:


> the spurs weren't gunning, the suns just could not stop them in the half court. the suns were such a weak defensive squad that a good team like the spurs picked it apart


its a myth the suns are such a horrible defensive team , they aren't a good defensive team but they are far from horrible

for one they often play at a frenetic pace , a pace most nba teams just are not use to as a result they get cause alot of turnovers ....2. they had some athletes who can play defense , Shawn marion is one of the best defenders in the league Amare is/was no slouch same for Joe Johnson

they ranked 18th out of 30 teams on defense that season .

the suns were the best offensive team in basketball that year ...the spurs the best on defense , but the spurs were also 8th on offense because they have the best low post option in basketball in tim duncan , so because they can do pretty much do everything (play fast or slow , defense and offense) they won easy while the suns pretty much have to play at 1 pace and are basically a mediocre defensive unit....they were overmatched.

to oversimplify it to offense vs. defense is foolish because that simply isn't the case.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> its a myth the suns are such a horrible defensive team , they aren't a good defensive team but they are far from horrible
> 
> for one they often play at a frenetic pace , a pace most nba teams just are not use to as a result they get cause alot of turnovers ....2. they had some athletes who can play defense , Shawn marion is one of the best defenders in the league Amare is/was no slouch same for Joe Johnson
> 
> ...



It has not been my intent to really comment on the topic. All I really wanted to do was see people's opinions and generate conversation but your comments have gotten me to think even further into the topic. You mentioned that the Spurs beat the Suns because they were the better team (which I agree with) and happen to be the case during the playoffs. This is why I have to ask why do people feel superb defense is the begin-end all of the conversation. I think the better team is usually the team that can beat you in more than just one area because they end up getting a better foothold on the flow of the game. Why is it so hard to see us being successful if we're not playing Piston defense? Yeah, our defense was pretty weak last year but Larry Brown attempted to do something with this team that was not there. I think we are a mediocre defense team but by no means should that be some kind of anchor for this team. There are so many other aspects of the game that we can concentrate on and that we already have on this team to work with. I think rather than focusing on what we don't have, we should do so on the things we do and exploit it against other teams. You do not build a $130 million payroll from collecting players without talent. We happen to have a very versatile team and if you learn how to exploit it well enough then we may find our winning formula. I keep hearing how champions (which the Knicks are not) have to be a defensive team yet the Heat in my opinion this year we're far from that. Most of the guys on the team that were in the rotation were noted throughout their careers of being mediocre to down right poor defenders.



P.S., there are some good responses here. I didn't mean to interrupt.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Defense and offense are equally important. When the ball's in your hands, you're trying to score. When the other team has the ball you're trying to stop them. Either side of the court, two points is two points. It doesn't make sense to say that it's more important to stop the other team than it is to score yourself.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Da Grinch said:


> to oversimplify it to offense vs. defense is foolish because that simply isn't the case.


Why? You basically said in the rest of your post that the Spurs won because while they were a great defensive team and a good offensive team, the Suns were a great offensive team but only a below-average defensive team. And I agree. It makes sense. Which is why I don't understand why you said at the end of it that it is foolish to bring it down to offense vs defense. That's all there is to the game, isn't there? Offense vs defense?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Hakeem said:


> Why? You basically said in the rest of your post that the Spurs won because while they were a great defensive team and a good offensive team, the Suns were a great offensive team but only a below-average defensive team. And I agree. It makes sense. Which is why I don't understand why you said at the end of it that it is foolish to bring it down to offense vs defense. That's all there is to the game, isn't there? Offense vs defense?



my point was a great defense doesn't *solely* beat a great offense , you need more than that .

i would say a great defense vs. a great off. wins about 50% of the time all things being equal otherwise .

in addition to having a better defense the spurs were a better rebounding team (meaning more possesions) and had better chemistry because they have been playing together far longer ...probably a better coach too....basically the suns didn't have much of a chance in hindsight despite what their regular season was like.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Da Grinch said:


> in addition to having a better defense the spurs were a better rebounding team (meaning more possesions) and had better chemistry because they have been playing together far longer ...probably a better coach too....basically the suns didn't have much of a chance in hindsight despite what their regular season was like.


From a team standpoint, I meant offense and defense to include offensive and defensive rebounding.
As for chemistry -- it is only an explanation for on-court performance. Poor chemistry will make a team worse on both ends of the floor. 
Same with coaching. Coaching is only important in that it affects offensive and defensive performance.
IMEHO.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> A team can hold a team to 79 points on the flip side and still lose because of a lack of offense.



but u didnt make the thread refering to a team having bad offense AND defense, u were comparing them, thats the reason i didnt bring up that point


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

BiG_DeuCE said:


> but u didnt make the thread refering to a team having bad offense AND defense, u were comparing them, thats the reason i didnt bring up that point


The original question was, how does defense win games in ways offense doesn't. You stated that if a team could hold there opponent to 79 or how so many points, they would win but failed to take into account whether that team could put up the points on the other end of the floor to win. There has to be some ability on both ends of the floor to win.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> The original question was, how does defense win games in ways offense doesn't. You stated that if a team could hold there opponent to 79 or how so many points, they would win but failed to take into account whether that team could put up the points on the other end of the floor to win. There has to be some ability on both ends of the floor to win.



From what the title says, it asks me which one of these are most needed to win a game, if by what you are saying, you would like to make correct, the title would have been defense and offense, you are taking other facts such as "if the other team scores on the other side, then there is a high chance of you losing" while im bringing up the fact of MY opinion, saying realistically " a bad team can have defense but no offense, it depends on the AMOUNT of defense, and HOW MUCH you are comparing their defense to the other team on the court

say the knicks and nets for example. The nets arent known to have a bench, but someoene says the knicks have a good bench. I am going to take that into consideration, and say how good of a bench they have comparing to other teams in the NBA. So if they were to have a good bench, depending on the rating a person gives them like say last i nthe NBA, they are saying that they have a bench that is way above their level, but still that does not mean that levels up to any other team in the NBA. 

I was telling what the thread asked me to do,clarify defense from offense, but the thread may change on the account of what team u are talking about. Realistically speaking if u were reffering to the knicks, the quote "A team can hold a team to 79 points on the flip side and still lose because of a lack of offense." would be correct, as i am reffering to in general all teams in the NBA. So we are just exhanging different opinions on two different topics.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> The question is why and how does it contribute to winning?


it would contribute not only to winning in general, but trying to understand your teammates, it helps you contribute to the other players on your team. probably, offense and defense does not make each other less important, offense and defense are probably both needed to win a game, than any other possibility,

we are just stating our opinion from this matter.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

Gotham2krazy said:


> Everyone can score, but can everyone defend?


Scoring/Dunking/Creativity is raw talent
Defense/Rebounding/Intangiables is a skill of will.


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## KVIP112 (Oct 31, 2005)

do any of u guys know what style defense we are going to be playin under zeke this upcoming season?


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## ERAFF (Jun 27, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> The question is why and how does it contribute to winning?


The interesting thing about Defense, especially in basketball, is that it isn't streaky or prone to "slumps" like shooting and general offensive play. If you live and die ONLY with offense, you live and die with the streakiness that plagues the offensive end of the floor. Good defensive teams force their opponent to exert themselves and compete for the full 48 minutes, even when they hit a cold spot on their own offensive end. Teams that don't compete on defense represent a night off---a physical break. When you play against good teams and great scorers you nwant to occupy their energy for a full 48 minutes....and you want to avoid fast and easy swings against you when your offense goes cold---the importance of good, competitive defense.


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> *How does defense win games in ways the offense doesn't?* What makes one end of the floor so much more crucial than the other?


defense allows a team to have a chance at keeping the score close enough to win. its like pitching in baseball.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

This is a fast-breaking type of ballclub. I want to see them make defensive stops that create offense, and not the other way around. I want to see tough as nails D and Isiah will likely force that into these guys, but not like Larry did. Isiah doesn't mind having a little fun, but making the guys earn it. I think Isiah will let Marbury/Francis/Jamal run their breaks on the condition that they do the work defensively to earn those breaks. At least that's how I'd do it, but I'm not the Knicks coach. However, that is how Isiah's old coach did in Detroit, so I'm hoping Zeke takes a page out of that playbook. Use Marbury as Isiah, use Stevie in Dumars' role use Jamal in VJ's role use Curry in a slightly more athletic Laimbeer's role and use Balkman as your Rodman. David Lee kind of also does that same rodman type thing with that great rebounding, but I think Isiah will make sure that we run an amazing pressure defense this year and the bigs will be making some nice blocks with their footwork. I saw Balkman in some practices and he VERY much reminds me of a YOUNG Dennis Rodman, before he got into skirts and dresses and getting married in them.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

ClippersRuleLA said:


> defense allows a team to have a chance at keeping the score close enough to win.


And offense doesn't?


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## KVIP112 (Oct 31, 2005)

Still what type of defense are we gonna play? 
1/2 Court Man-Man
Full Court Man-Man
2-3 Zone
3-2 Zone
What type do you think we'll run?


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

KVIP112 said:


> Still what type of defense are we gonna play?
> 1/2 Court Man-Man
> Full Court Man-Man
> 2-3 Zone
> ...


...Zone defense in general, which I have been suggesting since last year. It's clear that we are pretty lengthy and athletic, so we could be a pretty solid zone defense team. Hopefully Isiah swallows his pride and accepts the fact we need this. Personally, I don't understand why professional coaches are so adverse to playing it.


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## ERAFF (Jun 27, 2005)

Pro Coaches stay away from the zone for two reasons:

1. Pros are great shooters and will shoot over a zone and sink you

2. Zones are prone to large defensive/rebounding spaces after the shot. Unlike college, There are many great athletes OFF THE BALL in the Pros---Think Marcus Camby---Guys who really thrive by crashing weakside gaps for easy offensive rebounds and putbacks.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

If the other team keeps penetrating on us and exposing us like a 5 dollar prostitute equipped with many oral skills shall we say on 42nd street then we will have to avoid the zone, but if the opposing offense is lethargic and keeps shooting more blanks then a 60 year old on viagra then the zone is definetly an effective weapon. I'm sure many of you already know my analogies, so just enjoy them.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

KVIP112 said:


> Still what type of defense are we gonna play?
> 1/2 Court Man-Man
> Full Court Man-Man
> 2-3 Zone
> ...



primarily man to man with some full court pressure defense .

if zeke is serious about playing fast like the suns(obviously not the same way, they dont have phoenix's outside shooters) but they can really slash and cause havoc with their ability to get into the opposing big men's teeth.

with depth as their main weapon and their ability to cause fouls it can be a potent attack.


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