# Match Q trade Brand



## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Yep thats what i would do. Maggette is your franchise player.

Wilcox should start at PF next year. 

I think your set at the middle 3 positions

Wilcox PF
Maggette g/f
richardson g/f

youve got young guys at C and F.....lets try to upgrade

what about a deal for guys like Stromile Swift L Wright and Jason Williams out of Memphis.

Or 

give me some other brand trade ideas???


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

i wouldnt trade brand for anyone but a superstar as part of a package deal. Right now, we cant afford to package anyone with ely gone, and q having signed an offer sheet. so in other words, i WOULDNT trade brand.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

you wont have a point guard ready to start next year

is Chris Kaman your starting center...maybe

i think upgrading is important enough to trade brand for a package


Maggette is your franchise player IMO


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

brand is the franchise player without a doubt, even though he is no superstar. 

We have a PG with two years almost of PG experience, one of which he started most of the year, let alone his international PG experience in jaric, with the number 4 pick in the draft as his backup. I dont think PG is the priority, UNLESS they plan to move jaric to SG to backup Q or magette. 

Starting center we are fine. Kaman will be a sold 12/8 player this year i think. But, we do need a backup since we gave away ours for nothing (ely). Only way to get one is through FA. We dont have anyone left we can trade...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

like i said...youd have a natural point guard ready for next year

Kaman is just ok...and young...probably will show improvement


how would u like Jason Williams running your offense

Jason Williams=true point guard

Jaric= SG trying to play point guard


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

It's pretty obvious you're a Nugget or someone else fan and not a Clippers one.

There isn't anyone here dying to trade Brand.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Kaman is a lot better than ok. I wold like Jason Williiams but I dont think they should trade Brand for anyone except Kg and Duncan. He is to valuable for this team. Detroit has Ben Wallace we have Brand. He is the most valuable player on the team easily.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

I don't think we should trade Brand or Magette. Sure they are good young players, but these guys are  *UNDER CONTACT * for the next 6 years or so. The only way I trade either of them is if we get someone pretty close to equal talent in return and also  *UNDER CONTACT * for more then 3 years. I think you all can see where im going with this.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Yea I am a nugget fan. I know why we had a good year. And I know what it takes for a team to be a contender. And thats to solidify your starting positions. You might make the playoffs next year the route you want to take if Brand stays healthy. 

Id still say package him but thats me

having a guy at the center. that can rebound shotblock defend and score is a huge deal.

guys like Camby Dalembert Swift..etc they do that. I'm not in here to see brand get traded to Denver. I dont want him. I just want to bring young athletic players in and speed things up like we did in Denver.

Look at the Blazers once they added Ratliff for instance. 

You need to sure up you Center and Point guard positions if you want to really make a run deep into the playoffs.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

We have Kaman and Wilcox. And Brand is one of the best Pf's in the league and is one of the best shot blockers. The Clips need good consistent big guys to win and the is what Brand is.You dont know ****!


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

What i do know is...if you traded him for theo ratliff damon stoudmire...travis outlaw and a first round pick...you have a better...more complete team

Ratliff
Wilcox
Richardson
Maggette
Stoudmire

Kaman off the bench
Outlaw actually seeing some minutes
and your rookie doesnt have to run the show year one.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Are you joking about that trade. You dont know what your talking about. Kaman will be a top 10 center in the league next season and needs to start. Stoudamire wouldnt apporove the team at all. Why would we want Outlaw? Brand is a top 15 player and we should trade him for player that we have no need for or put our young players on the bench and stop there developement.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

how serious am I. Only marginally. Because they obviously have a lot of PFs in portland. Just throwing deals together that make you a more complete team. 

If portland did it. they'd be involved in other trades too with other teams. And who knows brand hurts himself and that draft pick becomes a lottery.

Travis outlaw...a 19yr scorer that can touch the top of the backboard...who is adding muscle to his frame.. yea i want him

And Stoudmire...i think he'd welcome LA and playing with Q and Corey.

And Wilcox he buds into a star at PF.

And I think brian grant will be the better center in LA next year 
Kaman top 15...you better be praying to the basketball gods.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Holy crap that trade is pathetic.

On what world does that improve the team?

We get two guys over the hill, who are FA's after next season, a HSer who has never gotten on the court, and late #1 pick. 

Yeah, thats an awersome trade for one of the best PF's in the league.

Keeping Q and trading Brand is just stupid. Thats really all that can be said. You dont trade a 20/10 big man who is consistent as anyone in the league, is a good defender, and keep a 2guard that is selfish, plays poor D and is as inconsistent as anyone in the league.

This thread is just ridiculous.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Kaman will easily be a top 10 center next year. I dont need to pray about that. By you saying that comment that shows you have no real basketball knowledge. You dont know if Wilcox will be a star. Elton aleady is and will be for a long long time. There is no way they trade him unless it's for a top 5 player in the NBA. He does so much for the team. If they did trade him for the crap you have proposed they wouldnt even make the playoffs. Next year they will if the match Q.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

numbers dont mean **** to me

a 20 and 10 big man...that has GOT YOU were exactly???

thats why you package him in a deal.

for a mentoring point guard.

a better center...
and a future young talent
and picks

nobody will offer you a big name star back

you wont get duncan or kg or shaq or even gasol

and Maggette is your franchise player and Q should be your number 2 option. Wilcox is budding and needs to start. Damon would bring in the PG you need badly.

I'm not advocating this trade. I'm just showing you tradewise the deals that you could expect to get. And how they would benefit you

Brand has gotten you...were???


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Brand has gotten us alot farther than any of the crap you saying we should trade for would ever get us. Brand needs help that is why they havent gone anywhere yet it isnt Brand fault. Brand has done nothing but good. If Q is back next year I believe this team will be right there come playoff time. The players are working on there games from what i've heard and seen from Kaman. There is no guarente Wilcox will be a star, it's hard to become that level you cant just easily up grade him to becoming that caliper.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

there is no guarantee brand wont get hurt either

I feel more comfortable saying wilcox will be a star

could avg. 14pts 7 rebs 1block a game
alongside a "real" center

than I ever would saying Brand wont get hurt next year.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Have you ever seen Kaman play? If you have you have no idea what a good player is. Because you think the Clippers should get Damon Stoudemire. Brand next year could average 22pts 13rebs and 2.5blcks. But we should trade him for Theo Ratiliif or Lorenzon Wright:stupid:


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

you should trade brand for a package

guys like wright and swift

ratliff and other centers
dalembert

should be sent in a package

Unless you dont think you have an immediate point guard problem.

Yea I could see brand bringing up the ball next year 2. You should have added 10 assts to his stats next year. And about 30 turnovers a game 2.

without joking your need a good center. a good point guard. another nice young prospect (i suggested travis outlaw) or some other guy from another team. And a future pick.

So Kaman and Livingston can grow into their roles.

You dont have to worry about brands health. you fill all your positions so you dont have any holes. And Wilcox becomes a much more valuable member of the team.

And when kaman and livingston are ready to take over. Great! this way you dont force them into their roles. I know Kaman can be valuable off the bench. I have no idea what will happen with livingston.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> 
> 
> I feel more comfortable saying wilcox will be a star
> ...


LoL

As opposed to the 20, 10, 2.25 that Elton puts up?

Face it, Wilcox is not going to replace Brand, and he is not as good as Brand. Chances are, he'll never be as good as Brand. 

Wilcox has shown very little to even warrant this thread. The only things Wilcox has flashed consistently is athleticism. He's a poor defender, and a weak shot blocker. He has no go to offensive move. His ball handling is poor, and that limits the ability to use his athleticism to his advantage. 

Wilcox has upside, and has shown flashes of ability. But to try and say we should trade Brand and push him into the lineup is ridiculous.

The ONLY way you trade Brand is if you're getting a talent the caliber of McGrady, Bryant, O'Neal, Duncan, or Garnett in return. Otherwise, its not worth it.


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## Milk (Jun 16, 2004)

*!!*

nbanoitall your an idiot and should go back to the Denver page and talk about your crazy trade ideas there. Here is an idea for you, trade Carmelo for Bobby Simmons?? Ya thats how dumb your trade idea for Elton Brand is. Oya and what are you talking about Kaman not starting next year?? Are you crazy?? Kaman will KILLLLL Brian Grant next year!! 

Brian Grant is a overpaid unersized Center. Kaman will spin right offf of him and dunk on him almost every time. Just like he did many other centers last year. 

I remember on game last year when Kaman had 19pts. 9 reb. against Karnet. Oya also when Kaman stole the inlet pass to Yoa and drove the entire length of the court for a dunk through traffic.

Kaman is easily top ten centers coming into next season, he is going to be the top center in LA next year. 

Also I am taking Kaman over your boy Camby and Brian Grant any day. Them to suckers are over paid!!!


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

if you ask the blazer's management... they will tell you they are sorry they traded grant away

camby is on a performance contract based on games he actually plays.

Kaman looks like he maybe be an average to above average nba center.

wilcox is ready to start. never said he would be elton brand.

I'll be back when he hurts himself again. :laugh: 

and when your complaining that you wish you had a point guard. And some depth at center.

dampier van exel cliff robinson 1st round pick and another future pick of some sort because they dont have another young guy to package.

for brand

you have vets fill the roles until your youth is ready.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

this guy is rivaling bigamare for bonehead poster of the week award.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> this guy is rivaling bigamare for bonehead poster of the week award.


BigAmare won that for the year on the whole site.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> Kaman will easily be a top 10 center next year. I dont need to pray about that. By you saying that comment that shows you have no real basketball knowledge. You dont know if Wilcox will be a star. Elton aleady is and will be for a long long time. There is no way they trade him unless it's for a top 5 player in the NBA. He does so much for the team. If they did trade him for the crap you have proposed they wouldnt even make the playoffs. Next year they will if the match Q.


In no particular order

Shaq
Yao
Curry
Big Z
Magloire
Blount
kandi man
Dampier
Camby
Nestorovic
Divac
Brad Miller
Dalambert
Ratlif
Lafrenz

ALL of these imo will be better than kaman next year, and thats 15 of them. I could easily name another 5 power forwards that are forced to play center or vice versa.

Hes not top 10, i dont think hes ever going to be top 10. I dont see him turning out to be much. Having said that only time will tell.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Kandi ??????????????
He all ready proved how good he was last year.

Divac?
He is old. Still has wisdom and skill but he is old and his legs will tire out. 

Kaman is young and he is improving by the minute and this could be seen at the end of last season. I don't know why everyone thinks he will not succeed. He is working hard for it.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> 
> 
> In no particular order
> ...


Kaman will certainly be within Top 10 in the next few years. People are still going off the predraft rep of being the next big, white stiff. That couldnt be further from the truth if you had seen him last year.

Being Top 10 next year may be debatable, but most of those names on this list, if given comparable playing time, Kaman would produce just as much.

Shaq, Curry, Ilgauskas, Ming, Dampier, and Miller are the only ones gauranteed of being better. Kaman's #'s are very comparable to the rest with the same amount of PT. Considering the level Kaman was at at the end of the year compared to the start, Kaman was even better than his numbers last year dictate. The offseason to improve is only going to help him.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

First why sign and trade for Dampier when we can just sign him already?

Wilcox is good, but nowhere near Brand status

*Note* 14 points 7 boards and 1 block isn't exactly "star" status.

If so Brand is a superstar, because Maggette is our franchise player (your own words).


Also why do we need more young prospects? Please take a close look at our roster, then come back and tell us we need more young prospects.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Maggette is your team. He will have many all star apperances. Dollars to performance. He was a great buy last summer. He came out of high school and is really coming into the elite group of guards. I wouldnt trade him for ray allen or paul pierce. Thats how much I think of him. 

The only point I make about Kaman and Livingston is neither are ready to start for a "contending or deep playoff team" next year.

Wilcox will post numbers similar to Al Harrington this year if started. Not saying he is Brand. Just saying is easily good enough to start NOW. THIS YEAR.

Maybe you guys dont think your contenders. But if you "unbrand" the clippers and bring back Q. I believe you are. You just need to fill in your holes.

For the next couple years that definitely is PG. And at least another year at Center. 

Nick Van Exel and Dampier...and Cliff Robinson. And two picks. Its a deal that makes your team able to compete with anyone NOW. Rebuilding is over. Youve been doing that since...well as long as I've been alive. You need to win this year.

Dampier might be signing with Atlanta. Either way a package is what you need to deal Brand. With vets young talent and draft picks.
And I dont want to rely on Brand's health either.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> Maggette is your team. He will have many all star apperances. Dollars to performance. He was a great buy last summer. He came out of high school and is really coming into the elite group of guards. I wouldnt trade him for ray allen or paul pierce. Thats how much I think of him.
> 
> The only point I make about Kaman and Livingston is neither are ready to start for a "contending or deep playoff team" next year.
> ...


Maggette went to Duke

Im sticking to the *UNDER CONTRACT*  statement I started from another thread....
We matched the sheet on Brand I don't see us trading him for Van Exel, Dampier and Robinson.... It would make no sense... convince me that Dampir and Wilcox would be a better 4/5 combo then Brand and anyone we put at center... That might include Dampier


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TucsonClip</b>!
> 
> convince me that Dampir and Wilcox would be a better 4/5 combo then Brand and anyone we put at center


Dampier could be in atlanta by tomorrow morning

you wont sign someone to play center the starts in front of Kaman this off season. You have to trade for it. Same goes for point guard. You will have to trade. And if you dont it wont matter what you think of Kaman and Brand because your team wont be as good. The package trade makes you better overall immediately. 

Ask Dallas what Nick Van Exel can do in the playoffs. 

It doesnt even have to be with GS. 

Eric Snow Marc Jackson Kenny Thomas and 1st rd pick

for Elton Brand.

That fills holes. And adds depth. Gives you more options and more weapons today. 

Floor generals like Snow are underrated and very valuable guys to control the ball.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

It still makes no sense...

Even if we do not sign a center that can start infront of Kaman, we are better off keeping Brand. Brand is better then Kenny Thomas and Eric Dampier. Vlade wants back in LA and will either sign with the Clippers or Lakers, you can book that one. Why trade Brand for role players, when we can simply go out and sign the same type of players you are putting in packages.

As for the point guard spot, if we need a vet point guard we can sign Kenny Anderson or Travis Best without trading Brand.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

thats the entire point...you cant go out and sign them.

where you going to sign eric snow or kenny thomas???
you arent

you wont find that out there

Divac? in a clip uni...i dont know if hed do that

why do you think Kobe wont sign with you...it scared him

just like trading one of the few players you've matched (brand) scares you too...even if it does help your team.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> Yep thats what i would do. Maggette is your franchise player.
> 
> Wilcox should start at PF next year.
> ...



Holy crap.

You'd rather have Stro than brand.

Wow. I sure hope that as I read through this thread people are calling you a ****ing fool. Brand and Kaman are this teams backcourt duo for the next 5+ years.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

If we need a PG we can go after Travis Best....
If we need another C/PF we can go out and offer Dampier/Vlade/Traylor

Why would they sign with us you ask?

13 million dollars in cap space is why. If we wanted them we could have them. Atlanta and us are the only teams that can offer Dampier more then the MLE.

Vlade has stated he wants to retire in LA...

Kobe didn't sign with us, because he got what he wanted from Buss, plus 30 million more dollars.

What scares me is trading Brand for your packages. It will not make us that better of a team. Brand is the only All-Star we have, he is in his mid 20's, plus hes under contract for the next 5 years. Why give that up for role players: the exact type of players that are on the market.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

*Re: Re: Match Q trade Brand*



> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i would rather have a package. That includes 3 guys (a Center and a point guard. And someone else.) Plus picks. Which is fair. 

And i got news for you. forwards and centers play in something we call...the frontcourt.

Its not the packages that im trying to sell to you. Its the premise of trading one guy for 3 guys and a draft pick.

So you are better NOW not someday. Because someday never seems to come for the Clippers.

For the last time. Not one player for Brand. A package plus draft picks. Got that Lil Nicky?


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## U Dont Know (Jul 13, 2004)

First off, shazha READ MY SCREEN NAME!!! U DONT KNOW!! Your list of top 15 centers are WAY off. 

If Minnesota could they would trade back Kandi any day of the week, and would take Kaman any day of the week over him. Kandi was only able to play in 42 games last season compared to Kaman's ALL 82 games. (What a joke) 

Then you got Divac on there as well?? Man isnt he retiring next season?? 

Nestorovic?? I remember watching the games when Kaman played him, Kaman out played him about 3 of the 4 games played. One game Kaman had 15pts 9 Reb. against Nestorovic. Oya I also remember Nestorovic air balling a free throw at one of the Clippers home games. (He should deff. be at the bottom of the list for that one  
Kaman will run circles around him as well.

You can also take Dalambert off your list as well. He only averages 1 or 2 more points and rebounds than Kaman, and plays more minutes than Kaman as well. 
Comparing both players game Kaman has alot brighter of a future than him.

Lafrenz????? Are you kidding me?? Who is this guy!! The man is going into his 6th year, and only played in 17 games and started only one of those last season????? Explain????? Im sure he will be warming the bench just fine next season.

Then my 6th man should not be on there is probably my man Marcus "Iam Always Hurt" Camby. I have to give it to him though he only missed 10 games last season compared to only playing in 29 games the two seasons before that. The only bad thing with this guy is that he could fall down and collapse and be done the rest of the season, I dont know if his body can take any more injuries. But I am taking the young talented Kaman on my team over Camby, Kaman future is way brighter.

Well that leaves the #10 spot for Kaman, not only to mention Kaman only played 20 min. a game last year compared to about 30min. a game all these guys played. He also played in all 82 games unlike these guys except Nesterovic. Kaman can also run the floor VERY well for his size as well. Once he ripped Yao and took is the entire length of the court for a slam through traffic, that wasnt the only time he ran the entire floor like that. I would say he is faster than majority of the centers in the NBA as well. 

After next season, he will easily be in the top ten..


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## U Dont Know (Jul 13, 2004)

Donald will never spend money on Dampier when he has Kaman. True that we need a back up center, its more likely that we would get someone like Trailor or something like that, even though he is horrible. But the Clipps is staying with Kaman at center for sure. 

If anything we should be looking at the pg position, but the starting center position?? 
NO WAYYYYY!!

Kaman will be the starting center till he is traded.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Match Q trade Brand*



> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> 
> 
> i would rather have a package. That includes 3 guys (a Center and a point guard. And someone else.) Plus picks. Which is fair.
> ...



I honestly can't tell if you have diffferent ideas that are somewhat feasible, or if you are just really stupid.


You'd propose trading Brand, a 20 and 10 player in the west for the following

Stromile Swift

A guy who couldn't start over Pau, because he's not as good.


L Wright 
Are you familiar with his Career? You really.

and Jason Williams 

Your logic is ridiculous. You say Mags is the franchise player, than you sign the team up for a guy who thinks he's the franchise player every where he goes.



Clippers have depth. They have Sopho in the wings and Ely. They have Kaman and Brand. For giggles they had Oden.

They need a 1. Guess what. They got one. 


They don't need another back up center and a second tier powerforward.

They certainly don't need an aging pointguard who will take away touches from the most efficent players on the team ( Brand and Mags)

I'm really starting to doubt your sanity.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> Kaman will easily be a top 10 center next year. I dont need to pray about that. By you saying that comment that shows you have no real basketball knowledge. You dont know if Wilcox will be a star. Elton aleady is and will be for a long long time. There is no way they trade him unless it's for a top 5 player in the NBA. He does so much for the team. If they did trade him for the crap you have proposed they wouldnt even make the playoffs. Next year they will if the match Q.


Didn't you call him a white stiff?


Anyway, I agree with you Kaman will be a top center, that guy has tons of talent in the paint.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Match Q trade Brand*



> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> Clippers have depth. They have Sopho in the wings and Ely. They have Kaman and Brand. For giggles they had Oden.
> ...


baby shaq has to prove he can make the roster. And the Clippers have Ely about as much as Brand and Kaman play in their "Backcourt"

dont you get it??? All I am sayin is...trade for a package. 

you listed wright swift and williams. That deal would also include a 1st round draft choice. I dont care if you dont like that.

Personally
Id like to see Eric Snow Marc Jackson Kenny Thomas and first round pick. Thats the deal I would want to do.

And your right you have a point guard. He will be ready in 4 years. 

Travis Best...that is actually a good idea.

Listen. The Clippers have sucked. Forever. This away they can make tomorrow. Today. My patience is up for the Clippers. Make yourself a top team in the west. And do it now.

Livingston should NOT START next year.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

If we wanted to win now, I would def take Swift, Williams, and Wright, over the Sixer trade :no:


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TucsonClip</b>!
> If we wanted to win now, I would def take Swift, Williams, and Wright, over the Sixer trade :no:


I wouldnt be over critical of either deal.
Its just time for sterling to prove he is ready to WIN. Thats what it will take for me to flip over and watch your games and buy your merchandise.

This thread is not about. Wilcox vs Brand or anything else

Its about adding talent and depth and filling holes so you can really compete now. So free agents arent quoted as being "scared" to sign here in the future.

Plus you get 3 vets and a draft pick. People are throwing around picks like they are nothing. But that first rounder might come in handy if there is someone out there u like.


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## DatSupadoopaballer (Aug 26, 2003)

Why dont we sign Zeljiko Rebraca or Vin Baker? Those are some. big guys with talent


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Clipper fans, i implore you...please STOP posting in this thread. This is embarrasing that we are even validating this guys posts by responding to it. Just STOP posting here and maybe he will go away, or at least post something worth our time in the future...


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> Yep thats what i would do. Maggette is your franchise player.
> 
> Wilcox should start at PF next year.
> ...


First of all, Memphis doesn't do that. They give up their starting point guard who has matured very well, and two of their big men, for a PF who is slightly undersized for his position. Their real need is a *real* (not a pseudo like Wright or Swift) center. Plus, we're giving up one of our assets, salary cap space...

Secondly, how does that trade support your statement:


> having a guy at the center. that can rebound shotblock defend and score is a huge deal.


For starters, ask Grizzly fans if they think Swift and Wright are real centers. They're not, they're PF's, especially Swift. Secondly, Wright blocked had a whopping 1 block per game last year, while Brand, a good *3 inches shorter* blocked a real whopping 2.2 shots a game. I'll reiterate and say Swift isn't a full-time center, and even if he did play center for 10 minutes, he (and Wright) aren't the best rebounders. I guess if you combined the two, you might get a package you want. Secondly, what's wrong with Kaman? He got the same bpg as a rookie, as Wright in 3 minutes per game less, which is a total of 270.6 minutes less. No, his rebounds and points aren't nearly as good, but he was a rookie and had a better rebounder to claim the boards (Brand > Gasol or Swift on the boards).



> What i do know is...if you traded him for theo ratliff damon stoudmire...travis outlaw and a first round pick...you have a better...more complete team
> 
> Ratliff
> Wilcox
> ...


Portland would hang up on you. Damon is a terrible *point* guard, not a bad player, but his contract is expiring. But they would give away Ratliff so they have an undersized center in either Brand or Randolph? Also, Damon himself makes nearly 4 million more than Brand, and now you want us to take Ratliff's salary (11 million) and Outlaw's? That's 16 million of cap space we're losing total in that trade, not smart at all. Plus, what happens if Damon doesn't re-sign and neither does Ratliff? So then suddenly, it became a one year rental for the two players, Outlaw for Brand? Not worth the risk at all, even if we gain cap space, as there's no guarantee players will sign. I'd rather keep the space we have now and roll it over to next year, instead of giving a bunch away, losing a ton of talent, and having the possibility of not regaining such talent.



> there is no guarantee brand wont get hurt either


There's no guarantee Carmelo Anthony or Kobe Bryant won't get either. Brand isn't a Raef LaFrentz or Marcus Camby when it comes to health. Heck, later *you* even said:


> *You dont have to worry about brands health.* you fill all your positions so you dont have any holes. And Wilcox becomes a much more valuable member of the team.





> without joking your need a good center. a good point guard. another nice young prospect (i suggested travis outlaw) or some other guy from another team. And a future pick.


Kaman, Sofo are young prospects. Kaman is a good center, Sofo is budding. Livingston is a nice, young prospect. I am with most of the posters here, Kaman is ready to take over. I agree we do a need a good point guard, but I think Jaric can cut it for 20 mpg and Livingston/Chalmers can split the rest. I can live with it, both young points need lots of experience more than anything IMO.



> if you ask the blazer's management... they will tell you they are sorry they traded grant away


Are you Blazers' management?  I don't think they're sorry they traded Grant away because a) the man who did, is gone and b) he sucked the last year he was there.



> dampier van exel cliff robinson 1st round pick and another future pick of some sort because they dont have another young guy to package.
> 
> for brand


I don't like this trade one bit. This stunts Kaman's growth, as well as Livingston's. If I wanted a mentor for him, it would be Jason Kidd or a Mark Jackson type, not a shoot-first point in NVE. I don't want Dampier either, he's a career underachiever except for ironically, his contract year. He's demanding and will probably get far too much money in my eyes. Also, if we really wanted Dampier, I think we would be wooing him right now, not trying to trade for him. This trade is also similar to the Portland trade. You lose cap space, regain it at the end of next season (assuming we don't pick up NVE's option), lose a lot talent, and risk the chance of not acquiring talent to fill the spots of the FA's. Too risky.



> Wilcox will post numbers similar to Al Harrington this year if started. Not saying he is Brand. Just saying is easily good enough to start NOW. THIS YEAR.


A mere 13 ppg and 6.4 boards? I would expect more...especially considering Brand is our other option.



> Same goes for point guard. You will have to trade.


Right, because we can't go after Mike James, Damon Jones, Travis Best, Bob Sura, Kenny Anderson, Charlie Ward? Are we not allowed to talk them? I would take one of those as stopgap tutor over a lousy trade for pseudo point guards in NVE and Damon.



> Eric Snow Marc Jackson Kenny Thomas and 1st rd pick
> 
> for Elton Brand.


I like Snow a lot and I think he would be a good option, but you want his ugly contract that ends in 2008 when he's what, 35? Jackson is overpaid as well...Kenny Thomas has an ugly contract as well that ends in 2010 :uhoh:. In the very least, NVE has a team option after next year and Cliffy's contract ends next year as well. I don't want to have to touch KT or Snow's contract (mostly due to length) with a 10 foot pole.



> thats the entire point...you cant go out and sign them.
> 
> where you going to sign eric snow or kenny thomas???
> you arent


No, you're missing TusconClip's point. Here's what he said:


> It still makes no sense...
> 
> Even if we do not sign a center that can start infront of Kaman, we are better off keeping Brand. Brand is better then Kenny Thomas and Eric Dampier. Vlade wants back in LA and will either sign with the Clippers or Lakers, you can book that one. Why trade Brand for role players, when we can simply go out and sign the same type of players you are putting in packages.
> 
> As for the point guard spot, if we need a vet point guard we can sign Kenny Anderson or Travis Best without trading Brand.


When he said "we can simply go out and sign the same type of players you are putting in packages", he means the players of the *value*. The players you're throwing have lower value not because they suck, but because of their contracts or the contracts they are going to get. Also, we can always sign a stopgap point guard...



> Listen. The Clippers have sucked. Forever. This away they can make tomorrow. Today. My patience is up for the Clippers. Make yourself a top team in the west. And do it now.


Lol, your patience might be up, but you're not the only fan. They're going to make this ridiculous trades just to please one fan's opinion?

The best you have offered so far is the one with Memphis, but Jerry West would never do such a trade, as it just makes their problem of lacking a true center worse. The reason I like the Memphis trade the most is that they provide more talent back than any other deal with the "promise" that we won't lose the talent due to FA. Meanwhile, the contracts aren't great, but they're not terrible like the ones coming back from the 76ers.



> Clipper fans, i implore you...please STOP posting in this thread. This is embarrasing that we are even validating this guys posts by responding to it. Just STOP posting here and maybe he will go away, or at least post something worth our time in the future...


Whoops, too late :sigh:.



> Why dont we sign Zeljiko Rebraca or Vin Baker? Those are some. big guys with talent


I would take Rebraca as a backup. He doesn't fit nbanoitall's wants though...nbanoitall wants a center who can start and let Kaman come off the bench and develop slowly. I don't want Baker because, he's no longer the same rebounder or defender and I question if he's gotten over his alcohol problems.


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## DaMavsMan13 (Jun 15, 2003)

I think this guy is just messing with you guys, I would stop replying to him if I were yall. He can't be serious, Eric Snow, Marc Jackson, Kenny Thomas and 1st rd pick for Elton Brand. :uhoh: :no: :laugh:


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

man...what am i thinking..this is the clippers...i'm not reading all of that... do what you want.

start livingston
and Kaman

dont match Q...whatever

When Brand gets hurt next year I'll be back. Or when you have too many holes in your lineup and you cant exceute and win games. Ill be sure to point it out.

For the record. I never said the other teams would do the deals. Nor even thought if brand would fit in with them. Just made suggestions of offers.

But forget it. This isnt Cuban this is Sterling. Do what you want. Its your team...enjoy them

I'll certainly be enjoying mine.:yes:


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> man...what am i thinking..this is the clippers...i'm not reading all of that... do what you want.
> 
> start livingston
> ...


Good, when the Clips can't win games and Brand gets hurt, put my name in your new thread. In bold and caps. Why do I want you do this? Because *I do not and will not expect the Clips in the playoffs this year* nor Brand to go a season without getting hurt. You don't know what happens with injuries and I prefer building on this core, even if that means missing the playoffs this year which I fully expect.

For the record, when you make "suggestions of offers" it's usually better to make it so that both teams seem likely to do the deal and the players that go in both directions fit somewhat with the team. Otherwise it's unrealistic and people will jump on you like we have.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> 
> Good, when the Clips can't win games and Brand gets hurt, put my name in your new thread. In bold and caps. Why do I want you do this? Because *I do not and will not expect the Clips in the playoffs this year* nor Brand to go a season without getting hurt. .


the building continues.... it was bad enough the last decade in denver

id really hate to be you guys. This quote right here is exactly why Kobe wouldnt play for you.

I expect Denver to make the playoffs. I still expect a big deal for our backcourt. While we will get some criticism for our deals. A decade of not being successful is enough. 

if a deal like I proposed in the free agents room...that would bring in Mike Miller and Jason Williams went through

The sky is the limit in the everchanging west for my team.

Wish you guys could say that dont ya?


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> the building continues.... it was bad enough the last decade in denver
> 
> id really hate to be you guys. This quote right here is exactly why Kobe wouldnt play for you.
> ...


Actually I'm perfectly content as a Clippers fan, considering the fact that I like 29 other teams in the NBA, of course, some more than others. We finally have some young, quality talent compared to a few years ago so I think we're moving in the right direction and I want us to continue moving in this direction. I have had my doubts about Kobe meshing on this team, when we already have 2 players who touch the ball a lot, but that's another topic.

Also, the sky is the limit for every team.


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