# The 2011 Draft Prospect Watch Thread



## Porn Player

Might as well get this up and running. The 2011 draft is going to be our most important draft in a long time. 

We own our 1st rounder along with the Miami Heat 1st rounder (via the Chris Bosh move)... 

That means if things stay the way they are, we're looking at a Top 10 pick and a pick in at the start of the 20's. 

There is a long(ish) college season ahead of us so this thread is merely a tracker, don't be offended if I post people you don't think we have a chance at or if I post a player you think sucks. It's all about discussion and we all know March Madness will have a big influence on the final projected standings anyways. 

Here is my wishlist for the Toronto 1st Rounder. 

Kyrie Irving 
Perry Jones
Harrison Barnes
Sullinger 
Terrence Jones
Brandon Knight

Here is my wishlist for the Miami 1st Rounder. 

Kemba Walker
Enes Kanter 
Maalik Waayns
Derrick Williams

Who do you all like?


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## E.H. Munro

I don't think there's a chance in Passaic New Jersey that Kemba Walker or Enes Kanter are available in the 20s and I don't expect any of the guys from the first list to be there at 15 as you guys are getting better and could conceivably finish at .500 and in the playoffs.


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## Porn Player

E.H. Munro said:


> I don't think there's a chance in Passaic New Jersey that Kemba Walker or Enes Kanter are available in the 20s and I don't expect any of the guys from the first list to be there at 15 as you guys are getting better and could conceivably finish at .500 and in the playoffs.


I can see Kanter falling to the 'teens. He's just a bruiser, doesn't have much of a game. I don't really want him here in Toronto anyway, I was just filling out the list. 

Kemba Walker would be a sure fire Top 15 pick if he wasn't so small. It's not often a 5'11/6'0ft guy can really make a difference on the basketball court so I can see him falling as not many teams will be willing to gamble on him. 

This team is getting better yes, but no way we end up with a pick closer to 15. It will be in the 5/10 range, but if we're really lucky it will be in the 1-5.


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## lucky777s

Right now Raps are 1/2 game out of the 8 spot and have the exact same record as last year at 7-11.

Draft pick is looking worse every day. MIL and CHA sucking so bad so far has really pushed us up from where we thought. But with CLE, NY, and IND ahead of us right now we could conceivably go even higher. Strange but true.

There is just no strength beyond the top 5 in the East and even MIA at 5 is struggling. I think Damp will help them though.


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## Porn Player

Little update. 



> Top 5 Centers in the ACC
> 
> 1. Jordan Williams – This sophomore has turned into quite a monster on the block. He’s averaging 17.1 points a game on 57% shooting. He’s also leading the ACC in rebounds per game with 11.8. He will be a mighty weapon for the Terrapins when conference play begins.
> 
> 2. Tyler Zeller – Very mobile center for the Tar Heels. Has made big strides on the offensive end (14.7 points per game). Has a nice touch and good footwork, but needs more seasoning.
> 
> 3. Mason Plumlee – Major athlete in the post, playing the center position very well so far for the Blue Devils, doing a little bit of everything. Needs to improve his toughness and free-throw percentage (only 42.4% so far this season).
> 
> 4. Reggie Johnson – Near 300 pounder, who is using his massive size to establish post position and devour the glass (10.4 rebounds in only 23.7 minutes per game). Has had 5 double-doubles in the Hurricanes’ first 7 games.
> 
> 5. Xavier Gibson – The long, athletic anchor for Florida State’s stifling defense. Coming around offensively


Link


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## Porn Player

Dukes Kyrie Irving Mixtape. Love this kid, leaves so many players scambling on the floor after they lose their footing........ and dignity! ...


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## lucky777s

A player or two will fall in the draft. No doubt about that. Always happens. But I don't think Irving is that guy. I have not seen enough of the others to say much right now. Other players stock will rise after the big tourney.

No matter where we pick there should be a guy that can help us. Its just a question of picking the right guy. When you look back at all our picks in the past there are usually at least 2 quality picks that could have been made in that spot.


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## Porn Player

^ Oh for sure, Irving is a pipe dream right now. He'll go Top 3, so if we do land him, I may convert to religion. 

I'm just going to post videos of different kids everyonce in a while so we can get an idea of who we like come draft time, it also generates discussion on said player which helps us all have a better understanding of the player. 

Irving is getting a lot of CP3 comparisons, is that too much or is this kid really that good?


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## Porn Player

Not so fast ladies and gentlemen, Irving looks like he is out for the season. It's now a real possibility that Irving could fall. Now, I don't think he's dropping past 5, but any thing that worries teams about him is good news for our mediocre franchise.


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## Porn Player

BC was sighted at the last Baylor game scouting Perry Jones III. No doubt he was interested in Selby who was also playing. 

Interesting to note that BC is already looking towards the draft. It's refreshing that he seems to understand the importance of a good draft to this franchise. Another turkey and I think we would all struggle to continue in faith behind this ball club.


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## ballocks

it's a weird draft crop. a lot of pf's hugging the top and it'd be silly for us to look there. most of these guys are underwhelming me right now. hoping (or praying) for a stephen curry or someone to come out of the pack and give the draft some spice. kyrie irving is exceptional but the most of the others are too raw for my taste. 

waiting for the tournament(s), i guess.

peace


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## seifer0406

I wouldn't mind us drafting another power forward. As long as the guy isn't a bust it really doesn't matter what position he plays. Our entire team is movable so we can always shake things up to create minutes.


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## Porn Player

ballocks said:


> it's a weird draft crop. a lot of pf's hugging the top and it'd be silly for us to look there. most of these guys are underwhelming me right now. hoping (or praying) for a stephen curry or someone to come out of the pack and give the draft some spice. kyrie irving is exceptional but the most of the others are too raw for my taste.
> 
> waiting for the tournament(s), i guess.
> 
> peace





seifer0406 said:


> I wouldn't mind us drafting another power forward. As long as the guy isn't a bust it really doesn't matter what position he plays. Our entire team is movable so we can always shake things up to create minutes.


He might be 6'10 but he's being touted as a SF. Here is a quick low down on him. 



> NBA Comparison: Tracy McGrady
> 
> Strengths: Has incredible length for a wing player – has a 7’2.5” wingspan ... His NBA position is definitely on the wing as his perimeter skills - notably ball handling, lateral foot speed and athleticism - are phenomenal ... He can shoot the three, or pull up off the dribble, but is much better when attacking the basket ... He loves to work from the top of the key and take his man off the dribble, getting into the lane where he can use his size ... He has a tendency to take on two and three defenders at a time but is great at initiating contact and squaring up for one-handed runners and floaters to finish near the rim, when he's not throwing down highlight dunks ... Jones shows an aggressiveness and emotional fire that scouts like to see in players with this much potential.
> 
> Weaknesses: He sometimes tries to do too much, which at the high school level is completely fine because of his talent ... However, as he grows up and plays at higher levels he will have to learn to work with his teammates and improve his basketball IQ in this area if he expects to be a star ... He is special with the ball in his hands but isn't all that helpful when that's not the case ... His length makes him intimidating on defense but he doesn't give maximum effort on this side of the ball ... He will often coast on plays, standing on the three-point line waiting for the ball ... He can shoot from the perimeter but isn’t yet consistent ... Is expected to play a good deal in the post in his senior year at Duncanville, so his development on the perimeter (his long term position is small forward) will likely come in college ...
> 
> Notes: At the 2009 AAU Tournament when asked who was better, Tony Wroten or Perry Jones, University of Louisville head coach Rick Pitino said, "Perry is the best pro prospect here [in Vegas]."


Link


I hope the T-Mac comparison doesn't mean he will leave after his rookie contract :laugh:


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## seifer0406

A report came out today saying that Ricky Rubio isn't interested in coming over next year if he is still with the T-Wolves. Which got me thinking, if we don't get a top 3 pick, perhaps we can trade the pick for Rubio? Outside of Kyrie Irving this draft is very power forward heavy and we are loaded at that position. Calderon should be able to influence Rubio in coming over next year and help him cope with the NBA for the next 2 years.


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## Porn Player

Rubio also listed Miami, New York or Boston as the destinations he wanted to play. Not the Toronto Raptors, and who's to say he even likes Calderon? He certainly doesn't like the sound of an average franchise. He wants to come over and be a star, and he will bide his time until he gets exactly what he wants.


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## seifer0406

Rubio also said he wants to play for an "East Coast" city. And let's be realistic, New York doesn't have the necessary pieces to land Rubio and Boston already have Rajon Rondo. Miami is in the same boat as New York and is playing next to Lebron James really the best fit for Rubio? Being the 4th best player on a team that doesn't utilize your best attribute (passing) isn't the way to go if you want to be a star.


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## Porn Player

seifer0406 said:


> Rubio also said he wants to play for an "East Coast" city. And let's be realistic, New York doesn't have the necessary pieces to land Rubio and Boston already have Rajon Rondo. Miami is in the same boat as New York and is playing next to Lebron James really the best fit for Rubio? Being the 4th best player on a team that doesn't utilize your best attribute (passing) isn't the way to go if you want to be a star.


:laugh: ... I knew that 'East Coast' city spiel was coming right back at me. I agree, Toronto would be in a better position to land Rubio than the Timberwolves currently are, however, we're still not a team he's mentioned and as such we shouldn't presume he would want to play for us. 

Imagine we gave up our high pick only to find that he doesn't like us either? He'd be assassinated by a Raptor fan that just couldn't take any more players refusing to play for us. 

Why doesn't New York have the pieces to land Rubio? They have plenty of pieces from my viewpoint (Felton, Gallinari, Randolph etc etc). They are also a team that isn't shy when it comes to making moves. 

And you're actually trying to tell me Rubio wouldn't want to join LeBron, Wade and Bosh and average huge assist numbers while winning numerous Championships? He wouldn't just be a bit part player, he would be part of the superstar core and would go down in history as such. 

I agree with you on the Celtics.


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## seifer0406

If the Raptors are making a move to acquire Rubio I'm sure the pre-requisite is that he must be willing to play here. This isn't Fran Vazquez where the guy backed off at the last second. Rubio made it clear in the beginning that he has no interest in playing in Minnesota. If the Raptors can get an okay from Rubio's camp beforehand I don't see any problem with him coming over.

Gallo isn't enough to get Rubio not to mention their 3/4 is already loaded with Beasley/Love. The Twolves have no use for Felton since they already have Flynn and Felton has been a great fit in New York so far. The reason why I said the Knicks lack the pieces is because they don't have any picks not to mention they are a playoff team so their future picks lack value as well

As for Miami I don't know how Rubio is going to rack up big assist numbers when he isn't going to have the ball in his hands. Lebron and Wade are the ones that will initiate the offense 99% of the time. What they need is a PG that can knock down that open shot (preferably a 3) and someone that can guard whoever Lebron and Wade doesn't feel like guarding. It just doesn't seem like an attractive place for a pass first PG like Rubio to be playing in.


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## Porn Player

seifer0406 said:


> Gallo isn't enough to get Rubio and the Twolves have no use for Felton since they already have Flynn. The reason why I said the Knicks lack the pieces is because they don't have any picks not to mention they are a playoff team so their future picks lack value as well
> 
> As for Miami I don't know how Rubio is going to rack up big assist numbers when he isn't going to have the ball in his hands. Lebron and Wade are the ones that will initiate the offense 99% of the time. What they need is a PG that can knock down that open shot (preferably a 3) and someone that can guard whoever Lebron and Wade doesn't feel like guarding. It just doesn't seem like an attractive place for a pass first PG to be playing in.


Knicks might not have the picks to get the deal done, but they certainly have players on their roster to close a deal. The T'Wolves don't need more youth anyways, although 1st rounders are always attractive. 

You don't think Miami could alter their style to include a true PG? Rubio would need to work on his 3 ball, his shooting isn't what it should be yet. With Rubio being the main ball handler, LeBron would be able to save himself and then dominate on the defensive end of things. LeBron and Wade managed to play fine with J.Kidd on Team USA. It's an attractive enough place for Rubio to list as his preferred destination.


EDIT - All this said, I'm definitely not against Rubio coming to Toronto, I just don't think it will happen. He hasn't expressed a desire to come here and I don't think he'd be able to turn this franchise around without some more help.


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## seifer0406

I don't think Miami can alter their play style especially when they are better off with Lebron being the facilitator. I can't imagine Pat Riley walking into a room with Lebron/Wade and tell them to change everything because a 21 year old kid from Spain is coming to South Beach. Until Lebron's wheels fall off every team he plays for he will be the guy with the ball most of the time creating for his teammates.

The Knicks could do it if Rubio pushes things like Melo. But if things are civil it just doesn't make any sense for either team. Felton has been great for the Knicks and I don't see them shipping him off to take a chance on Rubio. The Wolves have no use for anyone on the Knicks squad. Randolph hasn't done anything and Gallo has to fight with Beasley/Wesley Johnson/Corey Brewer/Martell Webster for that SF spot.


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## Porn Player

All valid points. Still doesn't negate the fact we don't even know if he wants to play here. 

Oh and I take Irving all day, every day over Rubio.


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## ballocks

saw derrick williams play vs ucla last night. wasn't expecting much but came out of it quite impressed. wouldn't mind him at all. there's a lot of wow factor with this kid. he's probably a 3 at the nba level, i don't really know (or care), but he's ~ 6'9" solid, ready to excel right now.

but his agility is spectacular. that's what got me the most. for his size i couldn't believe it. he's not just learning to play into his body, he's looks comfortable with it already. i mean, he'll probably chunk up sooner than most (30 years old?) but from now till then (at least) he'll be in his physical prime and he already knows what to do with it.

his intangibles appear top-notch. first of all, he doesn't disrupt the team in its offensive sets. he rolls with it. but he picks his spots. he doesn't run from his star power. i mean, he'll make an elite play every ~ 5 mins... but *every* 5 mins... so you're always aware of him, and he's always ready to pounce, but you don't get the feeling that he's trying too hard (or that they're forcing it into him). here's an example: the guy's shooting 70% from 3 this year. *70%*. but like i said, he picks his spots. he'd still rather go to the rim and throw down. and if you play off of him, well, "don't you guys know that i shoot 70% from 3?"  maybe that's _why_ he shoots it so well.

as for D, i couldn't say. the bruins are pretty weak this year- but i'll tell you this much: i definitely don't want tyler honeycutt! 

i don't expect derrick to go HOF or anything, but he's still worth a lotto pick imo.

but here's a half-full/half-empty for you: he's a california kid. we know what that means (florida, florida, texas = gtfo). but i wonder... demar's a california kid too. if we were ever going to try another player from the south... just saying. 

peace


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## kirk_2003

Irving is still my guy. My list going in the draft assuming we land top 5 would be in order..

Irving - Chris Paul? D. Rose?
Jones III - appears to be in the mold of Bender/AntRandoplh
D. Williams - The Matrix part deux?
Sullinger - can't think of a player that I can compare him to..
Kemba Walker - Darren Collison? Johnny Flynn?


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## Porn Player

Is Jimmer Fredette the real deal? He is a God in college basketball. Some scouts are touting him as a better player than Steph Curry, some are dismissing that as fantasy. 

I also have problems with him being from BYU. Cough *Araujo* Cough.


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## seifer0406

Bosh is helping us with his annual lower body injury. Wade's wrist injury may be serious and if he pulls an Eric Gordon Miami's pick might end up in the early 20s.


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## lucky777s

I am on record saying Rubio is horribly overrated and will not be a big impact guy in the NBA. I think he would gladly come to TOR given that he is Spanish and has no doubt talked with Garbo and Jose about the city and may know quite a bit about it. But I don't think he solves our problems.

Looking at the fast break stats in the nba it is Lebron and a bunch of very quick scoring PGs. I think that is what TOR needs. The league has changed dramatically over the last 5 years and the Raps have not had that explosive perimeter player to keep up with the better teams. If you put a big time PG with DD,Weems,Wright on the wings I think it makes them all better and if we get some interior defence it could come together fast.

Jose is a great facilitator and complimentary player. Problem is all our guys are 6th men calibre and not stars.

Defense is still the big problem and finding that defensive stud in the middle is going to be tough.


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## ballocks

saw perry jones (baylor) play colorado over the weekend. wouldn't touch him with a flagpole. in fact, i'd rather take alec burks from the buffaloes.

not saying jones won't develop. he might. but he's just so raw. our team cannot afford it imo- i think it's a result of the last few years. patience is in short supply around here and even in the tank period we're hammering through now, it doesn't feel good. the vultures are circling. any long-term project (like jones) may have his development sabotaged by coming here. i'm not sure we're ready to wait, given what happened with bargnani and bosh and the whole kitten caboodle of the past five years. /anyway

imo, we're in dire need of a leader, first and foremost. perry jones is not him. there were scouts in the crowd, and the kid's just 18 yo, but he didn't impress me. he didn't take the bull by the horns. he was sort of going through the motions and... i dunno. not my kinda guy. 

he's long, though. there were a couple of sequences inside where colorado couldn't get a shot up. i guess that's one of the perks of being a 6'11" sf and maybe jones can learn to leverage the gift. his athleticism in general is spectacular. he can run the floor like a guard, he just doesn't have much of a handle yet and, imo, not much of a motor either. but i could be wrong on the second count. only judging on one game.

still... not a big fan myself. hope we don't take a flier on him. not in a position to take a flier on anyone this year. 

peace


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## Junkyard Dog13

say we go after Rubio what about this

Tor sends
Calderon
Bargnani
Miami 1st

Minnesota sends
Rubio
Love


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## lucky777s

You can't seriously be asking for Love in that trade.


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## mo76

ballocks said:


> saw perry jones (baylor) play colorado over the weekend. wouldn't touch him with a flagpole. in fact, i'd rather take alec burks from the buffaloes.
> 
> not saying jones won't develop. he might. but he's just so raw. our team cannot afford it imo- i think it's a result of the last few years. patience is in short supply around here and even in the tank period we're hammering through now, it doesn't feel good. the vultures are circling. any long-term project (like jones) may have his development sabotaged by coming here. i'm not sure we're ready to wait, given what happened with bargnani and bosh and the whole kitten caboodle of the past five years. /anyway
> 
> imo, we're in dire need of a leader, first and foremost. perry jones is not him. there were scouts in the crowd, and the kid's just 18 yo, but he didn't impress me. he didn't take the bull by the horns. he was sort of going through the motions and... i dunno. not my kinda guy.
> 
> he's long, though. there were a couple of sequences inside where colorado couldn't get a shot up. i guess that's one of the perks of being a 6'11" sf and maybe jones can learn to leverage the gift. his athleticism in general is spectacular. he can run the floor like a guard, he just doesn't have much of a handle yet and, imo, not much of a motor either. but i could be wrong on the second count. only judging on one game.
> 
> still... not a big fan myself. hope we don't take a flier on him. not in a position to take a flier on anyone this year.
> 
> peace



It's just one draft pic. If perry jones pans out, the raptors have a true superstar to build around. Well worth the risk imo.


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## mo76

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> say we go after Rubio what about this
> 
> Tor sends
> Calderon
> Bargnani
> Miami 1st
> 
> Minnesota sends
> Rubio
> Love



Ya, sounds good.

:whatever:


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## seifer0406

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> say we go after Rubio what about this
> 
> Tor sends
> Calderon
> Bargnani
> Miami 1st
> 
> Minnesota sends
> Rubio
> Love


Let's trade Calderon + Sonny Weems to Miami for Lebron. Calderon is an upgrade over Chalmers so Miami solves their PG problem and Sonny Weems can do everything Lebron can. Works well for both teams.


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## Porn Player

Keep this about draft prospects people.

What do people think about this kid? I think given our history of Euros, he's worth some discussion. 



> The first time Jonas Valanciunas showed his face on the international level, he was nothing more than skin and bones – a raw, timid 16-year-old star struck by the bright lights of Madison Square Garden at the Jordan Brand Classic international game in April, 2008.
> 
> That was the first of many epic showdowns Valanciunas would have with Turkish phenom Enes Kanter, and while the future Kentucky student had his way in New York City en route to 22 points, 17 rebounds and a well-deserved MVP award, the Lithuanian did little to hint that he would develop into arguably the most talented prospect in European basketball just a few years later.
> 
> These were the first baby steps Valanciunas would take on the international level, but the talented youngster would progress quickly. First came the NBA Basketball without Borders camp in Istanbul in June, where Valanciunas began to show real potential. Then the Under-16 European Championships in Italy in July, where he led the tournament in rebounding and blocks, and most importantly, helped his team win the championship.
> 
> The following May, we were able to see Valanciunas once again, this time in a more natural environment at the Euroleague's Nike International Junior Tournament in Berlin. He had an eye-opening performance under the watchful eye of some key NBA decision makers, helping his team make the finals and making the tournament's all-first team along the way. Valanciunas' body was slowly but surely filling out and he was a much more confident and intense player than he was a year before. His work was starting to pay off.
> 
> bc.lrytas.lt
> 
> 
> All Valanciunas has done since is continue to improve steadily every time we've seen him. There he was in the U-18 European Championships in Metz in the summer of 2009, going up against arch-rival Enes Kanter in a pair of epic matchups that frequently get mentioned by NBA scouts as pivotal moments in their evaluations. 19.3 points, 10.6 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, on 72% FG and 79% FT were the final tallies in France.
> 
> And there he was again in the Under-18s the following summer, helping Lithuania win the European Championship and hoisting the tournament MVP trophy after averaging 19.4 points (70% FG, 78% FT), 13.4 rebounds and 2.7 blocks.
> 
> In between, Valanciunas has continued to progress from year to year on the club level, starting in hometown Utena in the Lithuanian third division, then moving to Perlas Vilnius in the second division and later to Lietuvos Rytas in the first division.
> 
> This year, he is competing in the highest level of European basketball in the Euroleague as well, and ranks as one of the top players in the competition on a per-40 minute basis in points (21.8), rebounds (13.6), blocks (1.8), field goal percentage (74.4%), free throw percentage (87.5%), and fouls (9.1). That's quite an accomplishment for a skinny 18-year-old.
> 
> The natural question to ask would be—“Where will it end?” The answer to which seems quite obvious: shaking David Stern's hand at the NBA Draft.
> 
> How Valanciunas managed to make such large strides over the last two and a half years is a more interesting question to ponder.
> 
> The answer to that one is a bit more complex, which is why boarded a plane to Lithuania (and Croatia) to watch him play and speak with him face to face.
> 
> Standing 6-6 ½ when he arrived in Vilnius in February of 2007, Valanciunas has grown at least four inches since (I'm now 210 centimeters [almost 6-11] without shoes,” he informed us) and has slowly grown into his excellent frame. He's retained all of the quickness he had earlier on in his career and still sports a mammoth 7-6 wingspan, (again according to him.)
> 
> “I have very long arms,” Valanciunas says modestly, with a smile. “It helps a lot.”
> 
> bc.lrytas.lt
> 
> 
> All the physical tools in the world wouldn't mean anything if he didn't have the will to use them, though. Fortunately for Valanciunas, he's an incredibly intense competitor, a boundlessly energetic player who never stops working for a moment and whose presence is constantly felt on the court.
> 
> He runs the floor extremely well, is quick off his feet and has no qualms whatsoever about throwing his body around in the paint. Not one to just stand around and wait for opportunities to come to him, Valanciunas wants to be productive all the time, which is a big reason he's been able to earn playing time in such a demanding environment this season, despite his obvious immaturity.
> 
> “I don't have very good skills right now, many good moves, so I have to fight,” he tells us.
> 
> Essentially an afterthought in Lietuvos Rytas' offense, Valanciunas satisfies his hunger for touches through his work on the offensive glass. The largest portion of his offense (27%) comes from this area according to Synergy Sports Technology, a testament to his length, quickness, timing, hands, activity level and instincts. He pulls down over five offensive rebounds for every 40 minutes he's on the floor, and watching him play, it's not difficult to tell why.
> 
> As attractive a skill as his offensive rebounding might be, Valanciunas' most important source of scoring comes from his ability to finish plays created for him by teammates around the basket. He takes special pride in his ability to operate as a pick-and-roll finisher -- “That's my basketball,” he said. This is a skill that should translate to the NBA immediately.
> 
> Valanciunas does a good job setting screens and then rolling to the basket with pinpoint timing, arms high in the air, vigorously pleading for the ensuing pass. He has extremely soft hands and attacks the rim with real purpose, elevating above the rim and finishing strong, with a dunk if possible – and preferably an emphatic one at that.
> 
> He realizes he's not going to be able to back his man down at this stage in his development (“My points are not from playing on the low post”, he admits) and thus does his best to put himself in position to receive the ball and convert these plays as effectively as he can.
> 
> It seems to be working. According to Synergy Sports Technology, Valanciunas has had 52 possessions thus far this season deemed as pick-and-rolls or cuts to the basket, and has scored or drawn a foul on 42 of them. When unable to finish with a dunk, he shows very nice touch around the basket, often using the glass softly.
> 
> While Valanciunas' length and athleticism clearly play a big role in his success here, it's his toughness and fearlessness that really stand out the most. He's not afraid to challenge opponents, even if that means taking a nasty spill to the floor and tasting the hardwood.
> 
> Valanciunas also gets some opportunities from time to time in post-up situations, an area that he's not nearly as proficient. He lacks the girth to establish deep position inside the paint at the Euroleague level, even if that doesn't stop him from trying.
> 
> Against weaker opponents, he can put the ball down once or twice and dig a bit for better position to get his jump hook off (showing nice touch and great extension around the rim), but he doesn't really have the strength to finish through contact against high-level opponents.
> 
> He needs to work on his left hand and get quicker and more proficient with his foot-work and counter moves, as he doesn't look terribly natural creating his own shot down low.
> 
> Valanciunas is largely untested on the perimeter at the moment. He's taken one jumper this season—a surprisingly confident looking 3-pointer with the shot clock running out against Zalgiris. It went in.
> 
> Although we don't have very much data to work with right now (“I don't have opportunities to shoot,” he tells us. “My job to play in the low post,”) it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect that he'll become at least a capable mid-range shooter down the road.
> 
> The most shocking part of Valanciunas' game, in fact, might be his free throw percentage —he's made 43 of his 50 (86%) free throws this season; something he's done throughout his career.
> 
> “I spend a lot of time working on this,” Valanciunas explains to us. “After every practice I shoot around 200 free throws.”
> 
> Augustas Cetkauskas/acfoto.lt
> 
> 
> The rest of Valanciunas' game needs refinement, particularly his ball-handling and passing abilities. He turns the ball over at a pretty high rate and definitely has a ways to go in terms of improving his basketball IQ and overall experience level.
> 
> The place this seems to show up most is on the defensive end. Valanciunas is a major presence in the paint with his terrific size and length. His mobility helps him out quite a bit as well. He can contest shots around the rim and has good timing for blocking shots, even if he's not what you would call a high-flyer.
> 
> With that said, he's not the smartest, most reactive player you'll find right now, especially on the perimeter, which can lead to some poor rotations and open shots for opponents.
> 
> Interestingly enough, even when you see him getting beat at times outside the paint he still has the ability to recover and make a play at the rim, which is a testament to his foot speed and wingspan.
> 
> Nevertheless, he's still gaining experience and learning the nuances of the game on this end, which is one of the main things holding him back from getting even more playing time for Rytas.
> 
> Inside the paint, Valanciunas is a frequent target for opposing teams to post up due to his narrow frame and lack of experience, especially in the Euroleague, where almost every team has a bulky old school back-to-the-basket pivot who can simply overpower Valanciunas in one-on-one situations.
> 
> That's a big reason why Valanciunas has had consistent foul problems over the course of the year -- another reason that his playing time has been limited. In the Euroleague, for example, he commits approximately one foul for every 4 minutes he's on the court.
> 
> Despite the negatives described here, Valanciunas is undoubtedly an outstanding prospect, especially when we consider that he doesn't turn 19 until May. Players with his combination of size, length, mobility, toughness and budding skills are extremely difficult to come by.
> 
> The fact that he's producing at the rate he is in the Euroleague, Lithuanian league, and VTB League at his age is an extremely positive sign. Considering the tools he has, it's safe to say that his upside to continue to improve is huge.
> 
> It's easy to see him developing into an Andris Biedrins-type rebounder/defender/hustler in the NBA, but he likely has more even potential offensively than the Latvian big man due to his superior hands and touch (he probably has more of a nasty streak too).
> 
> While the impending NBA lockout this summer looks like a major thorn in the side of most college players, for Valanciunas it couldn't be better news. He'll be able to lock himself into a very favorable spot on the NBA rookie scale by being drafted this year but will still have the opportunity to return to Lithuania for another season (if he chooses to) and come to the NBA as a much more ready prospect.
> 
> Valanciunas has some issues to work out with his buyout from Rytas still, but he unequivocally wants to play in the NBA, telling us that that's his dream in fact.
> 
> “My biggest point is to go to the NBA, Valanciunas says. “It's my dream. My goal is to improve so I can play in the NBA.”
> 
> With that said, Valanciunas isn't necessarily willing to leave at all costs. “I want to go to the NBA when I can play,” he told us. “Not to go there and sit on the bench. If I go and sit on the bench that not good for me and it's not good for the club.”
> 
> Valanciunas' European agent, Sarunas Broga, says that its “too early to say what's going to happen, but the decision about the NBA will ultimately be made by Jonas.”
> 
> He plans on using the next few months to learn more about his draft stock and the teams that will likely be picking in the lottery—with the help of Valanciunas' new American agents, Leon Rose and Steven Heumann of CAA—and reach an agreement with Lietuvos Rytas about a sliding buyout scale figure to get out of his contract if needed. An invitation to play in the Nike Hoop Summit in Portland in April is also in the works.
> 
> The Valanciunas camp doesn't seem to be in any rush to commit to anything at this point.
> 
> “I'm thinking about making good results in basketball, Valanciunas says. “If I make good results, these things will come. When the season ends I will look at everything and me and my agent will think about all. Right now we're only halfway through the season. I still have a lot of work to do. I need to focus on basketball."


Link

Here is a video of him at 17 years old playing against France and getting 37points, 19rbs and 4blks.


----------



## kirk_2003

just say no BC.. but knowing BC he already ranks this kid top 3 talent..


----------



## seifer0406

No more Euro bigs, thank you.


----------



## Porn Player

kirk_2003 said:


> just say no BC.. but knowing BC he already ranks this kid top 3 talent..


Draftexpress.com has him at 3 and with us taking him. So the idea is spreading. 

To be fair, he sounds and looks a lot more like Biedrins than Bargnani.


----------



## lucky777s

Can he even shoot the 3???? All I see is a guy who rebounds, drives, dunks, and stays in the paint. That ain't Raptor basketball.

Its hard for me to look at these type of players without remembering a 17 year old Bargs at the ACC schooling the Raps with VC and Bosh. Just knowing how that turned out kills my enthusiasm.

But really its a mental thing with Bargs, not skill. So, will we miss out on the real deal because of our bad experience with Bargs? Possibly. But drafting another guy like Bargs could be the death of the franchise. Where is Ivan Cheerio these days anyway?


----------



## ballocks

it's waking me up in a cold sweat these days... at this point the team needs to go american for the sake of going american. it's stupid, yes, but there's not a european in the world who could survive the toxic atmosphere enveloping the raptors today. perception is reality- the raptors need to do something else for the sake of expunging the distraction.

it sucks that the raps are probably the only team in the league who should be respecting this caveat but refusing to do so would be like denial.

it doesn't matter to me that they've drafted americans the last two years, either. the perception is as strong as ever.

they can argue it until the cows come home, too. no one's listening to their argument anymore whether they like it or not. again, perception is reality- it may not be fair but it's still the reality. the longer they play the denial the more it'll hurt them. 

imo, sabonis could not survive the trial of playing in this city right now.

but honestly, knowing the team at draftexpress, i wouldn't be surprised if colangelo was the 'front-office exec' telling them about jonas valanciunas as a #1 overall. it was reflected in their mock right away- not at #1 (obviously) but right next to the raptors instead. 

tbh, it scares me silly. at this point i think colangelo needs to be protected from himself. what a ridiculous situation for this team.

as the sitch says, "*that's* a situation."

peace


----------



## Porn Player

Haha, a _Jersey Shore _quote on bbbnet. How the mighty have fallen.


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## Porn Player

I actually like the sound of the kid. I wouldn't take him ahead of stand out Americans we have seen week in week out for years, but I have him somewhere around the 7-10 mark on my big board. I certainly wouldn't break down if we were to select him in that range. 

So far we have discussed Irving, Perry Jones III, Kemba Walker, Derrick Williams and now Jonas Valaualanbaanaanaaoacicchssious. 

Next up - Harrison Barnes


----------



## BlakeJesus

Harrison Barnes would be a nice fit at the 3 playing alongside somebody like Derozan. He really needs to keep his efficiency in check, though. Great skill set, but I'm not sure if he's where he should be in terms of development.


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## speedythief

Porn_Player said:


> Haha, a _Jersey Shore _quote on bbbnet. How the mighty have fallen.


bbbnet? What year is this?


----------



## Porn Player

BBB.net never died for me.


----------



## ballocks

saw san diego st (kawhi leonard) and brigham young (jimmer fredette) over the weekend. leonard is what he always was- an athlete, using his athleticism to dominate college bodies (similar to what we see players do against the raptors on a nightly basis). his basketball skills are lacking, though. not to say he won't contribute at the nba level- because he will- but when do such players ever do more than "chip in" as pros? it's a rarity imo. i wouldn't break the bank for him because we need more- now and for the future. we can't afford to get a marginal contributor from this draft. we need a central piece, whether available or not. we need to find a way. as far as i'm concerned kawhi leonard should not be on the raptors' board anymore. it says more about how fragile we are than anything about his value as a budding pro. i liken him to rodney monroe if any of you remember him: a quality collegian whose weak skills were overshadowed in college because he didn't have to use them very much. as soon as he got to the nba it was another game- and he became another player when he realized he couldn't bully his way to success anymore. 

jimmer's more developed and possesses some charisma. in some ways i guess he's like steve nash but he can't pass... so maybe he's not steve nash. i think the mark price comparison is apt- if he were only light years faster. jimmer is slow, man. there's no hiding it. price was pretty slow, too- but that's what i mean. jimmer is *slow*. i don't know who he's going to guard as a pro but that's the thing: who the hell does nash guard today? you could argue that nash is a better defender than calderon, for example, despite calderon's far superior physical gifts- but still it can't be _explained_. some players can get their games off in spite of physical weaknesses and there's a chance that jimmer could be one of them. i guess he has the right attitude and swagger to do it but... it depends as much on how his teammates react to his play as it does on how he reacts to the nba.

so you'd have to do as much of a self-assessment of your team as you would a diligent evaluation of the new player. jimmer fredette's value as a pro will likely depend on the pieces/attitudes/behaviors around him- more so than any of this year's other prospects, imo.

i'd still consider taking him just because this team's problem has _always_ been its pedestrian attitude, imo. if you can find a leader who may coax the right intangibles out of the talents who are already here, the complexion of the entire team may change and the results may follow. still doubtful but... fredette has shown a predisposition to do this to some effect- albeit in the mountain west conference of the ncaa. 

even a 1% chance is better than 0%. imo jimmer's still alive; leonard's a goodbye.

peace


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

no more Euro bigs aside from Garbajosa, Dirk and the 2 Gasol's the rest are all finesse, I want us to build the core of this team via North American's that don't have to adjust to thestyle that much from college.
My wishlist for thre draft is
Erving
Jones
Sullinger
Barnes


With Sullinger if we draft him I would like he move to C and bargs to PF. he has a good arm span so him being 6"9 wouldn't be a issue, is not very athletic and needs conditioning good interior prospect. I think with some work you could have a young Antonio Davis.

This given the current mock if Erving Jones are gone and Sf can possibly be solidified perhaps with a Jhonson/Klieva combo or say Klieza and Ak47, thus maybe not reach for Barnes.
back up C Dalembert or Chandler big interior guys that are forces on the boards would help with the 2nd unit by allowing Davis and Amir more to score.


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## Porn Player

Finally had a chance to catch some college basketball and really see a couple of these kids. 

Jared Sullinger is not a PF. He's a C through and through. I really liked what I saw from him, great hustle, good positioning and a couple nice post moves. He has good hands for a big. I don't think the fact he's only 6'9 will hamper him much because not many guys in the NBA have bodies that could cope with his. Imagine Bosh trying to defend this kid? ... I wasn't sold on him before, but I certainly am now. I would be more than happy if he ended up a Raptor. 

Terrence Jones, first and foremost, looks and runs like Veliciraptor. This is sure to impress BC. He has amazing control over the basketball for a guy that big, he runs the floor very well and his handles are silky smooth. He forces some bad shots up and didn't play great D. I like his potential and wouldn't be aghast if he ended up a Raptor but he's behind Irving and Sullinger for sure. 

Irving is still my guy but Sullinger is right up with him now. Both are great fits for this club.


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## seifer0406

I don't know what we are going to do if we draft another big. I like what Amir has done for us this year. It looks like he finally figured out how to play 30 min a night and he should be a double double guy for us next year. I hope we trade Bargs so that we can start Ed Davis at center and have a defensive frontcourt for a change. DeRozan is becoming a 20 ppg scorer and those 3 should be our core going into next year.


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## Porn Player

Amir and Ed can't bang like Sullinger, can't set big picks like he can either. I think he compliments them both very well and a frontcourt rotation of Amir/Ed/Sullinger would be a defensive beast. Certainly the best we have had in a long time, possible ever. Sully just has attributes that are very difficult to find. 

I agree we should move Bargnani. Either out of the ball club all together for a SF or to just positionally to the PF at the very least. He can score and with defense surrounding him he could be a valuable piece. Still, I'd love to move him. 

DeRozan is definately the kid to build around. His emergence has been pretty spectacular throughout this season and he's one of the best sophomores in the league.


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## lucky777s

I haven't seen much college ball this year. Will focus on the conference tourneys.

Moving Bargs to add a true C next to Amir and Ed would be nice. But I think we would need that explosive PG to make that work offensively.

That MIA pick now sits at 25 by the way. Not 29/30. Potential for a guy like Kemba Walker to be there. But hey, we had 2 great energy games from JJ before he slid back to his true form and started thinking he was Magic Johnson.


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## kirk_2003

^kemba is going to be drafted in the lotto, for sure won't slip past 20th; this year is weak on pg.


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## Junkyard Dog13

Bargs is not a C not a force inside cant stop big men in the paint, move him to PF for Good. start Amir ad a vet C like Dalembert or Chandler, with the lotto pick take Barnes or Sullinger if Jones is gone. Sign a mid aged PG like Stuckey rfa, go after a decent back up SG like Redd, j-Rich PG crop very thing other option Barea

additions C Dalewmbert SF Barnes/C Sullinger SG Redd/ j-Rich
Subtractions Evans Ajencia
new line up Calderon/Barbosa/Barea
Derozan/Barbosa/Weems
Jhonson/Barnes/Klieza
bargnani/Davis/Amir
Amir/Dalembert/Davis

B 1-3 same 4-5 Bargnani Davis C Amir/Sullinger Davis no adding dalembert


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## Mr_B

What do you guys think about Isiah Thomas out of Washington? I had my eye on him since last year hes more improved this season


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## kirk_2003

^so what does he bring compared to bayless and barbosa?


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## MonkeyBallZJr

I want to see how Sullinger measures at the combine, I have a feeling the reports about him being 6'7.5 without shoes might be correct and that is way too undersize and he is not athletic enough or explosive to make up for it.


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## Mr_B

kirk_2003 said:


> ^so what does he bring compared to bayless and barbosa?


He has more upside than those two


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## seifer0406

I'm still quite high on Bayless. If we don't acquire any PG in the off season I think we should give Bayless the starting spot at least for the first stretch of the season. He turns 23 next year and has all the tools to be a good PG in the league.


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## Porn Player

MonkeyBallZJr said:


> I want to see how Sullinger measures at the combine, I have a feeling the reports about him being 6'7.5 without shoes might be correct and that is way too undersize and he is not athletic enough or explosive to make up for it.


That would be small but basketball is played with shoes on so I don't like all of these 'without shoes' reports. If he measures out at 6'9 or above he's worth the pick. 

For a guy with his size and full frame I thought he was plenty athletic and explosive. That body is something else, he's like a tank. And he's not slow neither, he boxes out well, he hustles his ass off and he will be a great C to add to our core. If he comes into the league and is forced to play PF, he will be a bust. The kid doesn't have that game at all.


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## MonkeyBallZJr

Porn Player said:


> That would be small but basketball is played with shoes on so I don't like all of these 'without shoes' reports. If he measures out at 6'9 or above he's worth the pick.
> 
> For a guy with his size and full frame I thought he was plenty athletic and explosive. That body is something else, he's like a tank. And he's not slow neither, he boxes out well, he hustles his ass off and he will be a great C to add to our core. If he comes into the league and is forced to play PF, he will be a bust. The kid doesn't have that game at all.



The kid is good no doubt, it's too bad he doesn't have the wingspan and athleticism as someone like Tristan Thompson who is a similar prospect. I don't know if he can play C at that size even if his game is suited it for it, a guy like John Henson who is a stick at this point but has a lot of potential to be a Joakim Noah type player could be more appropriate for the Raptors. I just would not take Henson anywhere near top 5. Assuming we can't get Irving, my top choices would be:

Harrison Barnes
Terrence Jones
Derrick Williams

It's a shame that Enes Kanter was not eligible to play for Kentucky this year, I really liked what I saw from him at the Nike Hoop Summit last year, he dominated the USA team which included Sullinger, but hard to judge from a single game. I'm not too big on Perry Jones either, seen him quite a few times this year when Baylor played Texas and he got destroyed by Tristan Thompson in both games. His physical attributes are impressive but he lacks strength and demeanor, and there's noway he can play the SF position in the NBA. I like Barnes for the Raptors, a wing tandem of him and Derozan would be awesome to build on, they both compliment each other nicely. Derozan is a better slasher and Barnes is a great shooter. A core of those two plus Davis is a good building block, and the 2012 draft is loaded with PG's, ie. Myck Kabongo (basketball gods make this happen please).


----------



## ballocks

i am getting *stoked* for the draft. as recently as mid-january, i was still angry at the crop. but... wow. they've turned it on. a lot of these players have arrived. i can't remember another season like this. 

take harrison barnes. my word. i can't believe this is the same player who was camping out around the perimeter in december, desperate for a substitution to put him out of his misery. i mean, he's legit. and not just that, but he's got a bit of a fire too. where tf did that come from?! he's imposing his will all over the court. and as an athlete, he must run the fastest 100m in college today. no joke. he could be a sprinter. he _is_. i can't believe he's the same player. reminds me a little of dominique wilkins. i guess it's taken andrea bargnani 6 years (and counting) to do what harrison barnes has done in 6 weeks = break out of his shell. joy to watch. if he continues to play like this and stays in the draft, mark my words... wait for it: he might go #1. (ooooooohhhhh - time for a mock!) 

back in december he was so raw, man. i would've been surprised if he cracked the lotto. that's changed in a historic way. 

who else?

kyrie's an obvious target. signing a waiver to play against doctor's orders tells me that henry thomas is on the other line. not to mention krzyzewski successfully recruiting austin rivers, the top prep pg in the country. i mean, irving's college career was as distinguished as it was short. this tourney will obviously be his last.

i love derrick williams, too. some team will shoehorn him into the four as a pro but he has a three's game, imo, especially on a team like the raptors whose centre cannot rebound, block shots or help defend. i wish i were exaggerating.  in other words, the raps need their three (like james johnson) to compensate for their five's weaknesses. sad but true. i think derrick williams would be an ideal fit between davis and derozan. and i'm telling you, he makes plays when he needs to- he's comfortable in every set and he won't stand in the way, but when it's his time it's _his_ time and he doesn't shun the spotlight. he makes plays when his team needs a playmaker and it's happened too many times this season to be a coincidence. he's a leader by example. the raptors have been lacking that quality all year imo.

terrence jones is another beast i'd love to see in toronto. i love his fire. his game still needs to evolve, he has a lot more room to grow, but he has a guard's skillset already, most notably his handle. apparently that can be attributed to a late growth spurt in high school, which caused him to relinquish his pg duties. there are so many star wings and/or bigs whose rise began like that, i can't even begin to list them all. late growth spurt = more skills than his peers. he just needs some time to learn his new position but... suffice to say i'm pumped for his future. 

that's four right there, same four as MonkeyBallZJr. he must know what he's talking about.  and even some others are prime-time material, imo:

jimmer- byu was supposed to collapse without davies. they put all their eggs in jimmer's basket and that was to be their demise. unfortunately winners find a way. i've said it for years, and i'll say it forever more: they just do. i don't know where he fits as a pro or what he'll do with those slow legs, but it doesn't matter. i'm sure he'll find a way somehow. while some players need everything to fall in place before they can expect to succeed, others (like jimmer) expect to succeed _first_, and then methodically move pieces in their favour in order to get that done. i love that quality. why did rip hamilton make it as a pro? stephen curry? mark price? they just do cuz they do. i wouldn't be surprised if jimmer added his name to the list.

kemba- i didn't think much of kemba before. but he looks like a grizzled vet now. and his confidence is real. he's not looking for approval from anyone but himself. he expects to win and it's nobody's fault but his own when he doesn't. that's not to say he doesn't chirp at his team quite a bit on the floor (cuz he does), just at the end of the day, in the locker room, he knows his team is _his_ team. excuses aren't good enough- which is why he was chirping in the first place, more like a proactive, "you better not force me to take his loss home and blame it on myself!" i love that too.

i haven't seen any of the euros but i've made my position clear before: it almost doesn't matter how good they are. i think the raptors need to go american for the sake of going american because bringing another euro into this city this summer would be toxic. it would be a death sentence for them. there's not a euro on earth who could develop to his potential in toronto circa 2011 (as long as bargnani is here, anyway). in other words, they need to kill the prejudice almost as badly as they need to select the best talent available; the prejudice itself is hurting the team imo.

peace


----------



## NeoSamurai

Man, I just love Jimmer's game. If the Raps could somehow swing a deal with a team where they can deal Calderon for a young 5 who will eat up minutes and play defense, I'd do it in an instant and grab Fredette anywhere in the top 6. Like ballocks said, hes just a winner and he has those intangibles within himself that just allows him to produce for himself and his teammates. 

If Colangelo sees any resemblance of Nash in Jimmer's game or personality and work ethic, he will make that move - I have no doubt in my mind.


----------



## lucky777s

Sullinger reminds me a lot of Sean May or Lonnie Baxter. Quality players with weight issues that are too undersized to play C in nba. Measurements are going to be key for him, especially standing reach.

Jimmer has had an incredible run but this is not Carmelo Anthony. No team is going to structure their O around Jimmer. Just look at the struggles of Redick and Morrison as recent examples. Maybe you take a flier on a Jimmer with a late first like we had in our hands before, but not a top 10 pick.


----------



## Porn Player

lucky777s said:


> Sullinger reminds me a lot of Sean May or Lonnie Baxter. Quality players with weight issues that are too undersized to play C in nba. Measurements are going to be key for him, especially standing reach.
> 
> Jimmer has had an incredible run but this is not Carmelo Anthony. No team is going to structure their O around Jimmer. Just look at the struggles of Redick and Morrison as recent examples. Maybe you take a flier on a Jimmer with a late first like we had in our hands before, but not a top 10 pick.


We're thinking along the exact same lines. If Sullinger doesn't measure out nicely, we should skip over him. 

If Jimmer gets taken Top 6, I will laugh until the cows come home. He is not going to translate into the NBA and you posted the perfect examples of why. 

At this point my big board looks like... 

Kyrie Irving
Harrison Barnes
Sullinger (if he measures out decently)
Terrence Jones
Derrick Williams 

If Sullinger doesn't impress during his workouts/measurements, I don't want him at all.


----------



## seifer0406

Jimmer is from BYU. I don't think Raptor fans will forget the last guy we got from that college.

I like Harrison Barnes or Derrick Williams. Kyrie Irving would be nice but recent news about his foot is alarming. Looking at Chris Paul and Roy both breaking down in their mid 20s make me feel that perhaps the Raptors shouldn't risk their high lottery pick on a guy with a potential health risk.


----------



## Porn Player




----------



## ballocks

i dunno, fredette could be like adam morrison but... really, it doesn't even matter to me if he is. i'm so bored of this team- maybe because it's such a boring team to watch! i mean, we're going to lose upwards of 60 games this year but it feels every bit as wretched, doesn't it? the charm, love, camaraderie, all of these team qualities are notably absent in toronto (and have been for some time). a player like jimmer, even in a worst-case scenario, would conceivably give us a temporary respite from the torture cuz he's a dynamic guy & very fun to watch imo.

granted, my standards have dropped about 132512 levels over the past few years but so what.

as for the rest of the pool, i refuse to back down from my initial claim: this draft is looking more promising by the day, and that's a relief. i'm convinced more than a few future all-stars will be photographed shaking stern's hand in june. hopefully one of them will be wearing a raptors cap.

peace


----------



## NeoSamurai

I can see the hesitancy in drafting Fredette that high, but Im almost convinced that he has intangibles that will make him into a very good NBA PG. Great work ethic, great collegiate scorer, and hes not a tweener like Redick or AMMO was in college. Hes clearly a PG and although people may question his athleticism, I think his moxie and basketball IQ will help to eliminate some of the athletic limitations he has (ala Steve Nash). 

Thats why I think if BC does make some kind of draft day deal and grabs Fredette, fans should be happy. It'd be a sign that BC and the brain trust see some resemblance of Steve Nash in Fredette. The team has 2 good offensive pillars to build around in Demar and Bargs. They need a third. Calderon isnt that guy nor is anyone else on the team. In Fredette, I see the potential to put up better scoring numbers than Calderon while still being a very good playmaker off pick and roll scenarios. 

Just my two cents is all.


----------



## lucky777s

Sullinger sounding serious about staying in school. (alliteration for the win) Sufferin Succotash!!

Even if Raps did not want him this would make draft weaker at top and move up our target one spot.

I just can't see him staying though. His stock can only go down if next year is a stronger draft, unless he expects to grow an inch or two. Plus the risk of injury. Kid needs to grab that top 5 money while he can. We aren't talking about some fringe first rounder. This is life changing money.


----------



## HB

The Sullingers arent poor.


----------



## dobrynicius

"Raptors" absolutely necessary high, strong big-man, like Valančiūnas or Kanter. I think, best choose is Valanciunas, because his have good experience in Euroileague, where he play with strong mans, like NBA.
Kanter is mystic player. He don't play in NCAA, he did not play well in Turkey. Yes, he have a lot of potencial, but this time Valanciunas is greatest player, i think so


----------



## Porn Player

I am intrigued by Valanciunas. I have seen nothing of Kanter since he wasn't allowed to suit up in Kentucky. 

If we miss out on Irving or Derrick Williams then I wouldn't be opposed to taking him. However, I do think we could trade into the late lottery and he would still be around. 

Brandon Knight impressed me this year and throughout the tournament, I think he could be the man to take from Kentucky from this.


----------



## Porn Player

Man, will this season end. I need the offseason already. Sitting in #3 spot for the draft, gives us a nice chance at the #1 but watch us drop down to the #5 (a horrible spot if you ask me) ... 

I'm swerving all over on my favourite prospects, I can't wait for the big guys (Kanter, Val and Biyombo) to come in and work out. I'm hearing so many good things about Kanter lately even amidst all the Biyombo hype after the Summit. 

I have a faith in BCs drafting ability, he hasn't picked badly as far as I can remember (Hoffa was Babcocks gross error don't forget) ... 

I would like to be able to get a couple of high picks, so I'm still banking on BC moving Bargnani for a 1st rounder and something else. Maybe a fools hope, but I still have it none the less.


----------



## HB

Haha at moving Bargs for a 1st rounder when in this draft he will most likely be the number 1 pick


----------



## Porn Player

^ I meant a Top 10 pick. Something with the Bucks like had been discussed in this forum (maybe even this thread) before. 

Bargnani isn't needed or wanted by this franchise. Ship him on out, let him be somebodies elses problem. We simply don't have the players to compensate for his deficiencies.


----------



## dobrynicius

I think Kanter is too much inflated bubble. He don't play all the season, and during this time he only interacted with media. While Valančiūnas plays in Euroleague with strong man's and have good expierence. This time Valanciunas better prepared to NBA. But that's just my opinion..


----------



## Porn Player

^ See that's where I can't agree. Val is still pretty rail thin and will he give us much difference from Ed Davis? They seem to have similar body types and play a similar game. 

Kanter has always dominated Val when they have met and Kanter hasn't just been wasting the year away, he's been training with Calipari every day and has drawn a lot of comparisons with Cousins (the last big man to come out of that system) ... 

Val has had the better year to prepare, but he had more strides to take. The Raptors office should get all the big men in on the same day and really work these guys over from mesaurements to in game play against each other. The guy that impresses the most, deserves to be selected.


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## dobrynicius

Valančiūnas game style is different then Davis. Jonas much more aggressive in the offense. Valanciunas have a good offensive moves, he quick and often used it. Other league centers doesnt't keep him. Biggest jonas problem - he can't shoot from outside and he very rarely shoot from mid-range. But he rapidly evolving.
But anyway, Kanter is also good opinion. The future will show, who the best, Valanciunas or Kanter


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## seifer0406

HB said:


> Haha at moving Bargs for a 1st rounder when in this draft he will most likely be the number 1 pick


If Bargs was still 19 and an unknown to the NBA.

Now at 25 going on 26 carrying a massive contract you'll be crazy to trade the #1 pick for him.


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## ballocks

dobrynicius said:


> Valančiūnas game style is different then Davis. Jonas much more aggressive in the offense. Valanciunas have a good offensive moves, he quick and often used it. Other league centers doesnt't keep him. Biggest jonas problem - he can't shoot from outside and he very rarely shoot from mid-range. But he rapidly evolving.
> But anyway, Kanter is also good opinion. The future will show, who the best, Valanciunas or Kanter


this is a good post. thank you. i didn't know anything about jonas valanciunas. 

but trust me... the fact he has no range is not a problem. to be honest, that makes him very tempting for me!  i think toronto fans are tired of jump-shooting big men who play small. i don't expect my centre to lead my team in 3PA the same way i don't expect my point guard to lead the team in blocks.

peace


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## -James-

I know I don't post here much anymore, but I was wondering what your thoughts on Alec Burks were. Big guards that can handle the ball have always intrigued me and Burks seems to fit the bill.


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## Porn Player

He's got a great game, reminds me of Paul Pierce.

My major concern is his supposed lack of passion for all things basketball. He has a small upper body so will get pushed around his rookie campaign until he bulks that up a little bit. 

The main thing for me is I couldn't take another player with all the talent in the world and no heart to go with it. It's my number one turn off these days.


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## lucky777s

Discouraging look at Valančiūnas

http://www.nba.com/jazz/features/locked_on_jazz.html

Don't want any part of him based on this game.


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## Porn Player

He's falling down my board too. We don't need another skinny dude that plays under the basket, we need a big chunk of a Centre ala Kanter.


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## scdn

Yeah but we don't want to just draft a big C because it would be nice to have one, unless they are a sure thing. We don't want to repeat 2004. The way this draft is sorting out, I might rather just package our #3 with Bargnani for a 2012 1st round pick.


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## Porn Player

#3 + Bargnani? Unless were getting Clevelands pick next year than hell to the no.


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## Junkyard Dog13

I think there after Williams and Erving are no franchise players but decent players, if we keep the pick , I take Kanter 6"11 260 physical hard working big man who would fill the void we have at C since Rasho was a starter back in 07, a big man willing to do the dirty work. After Kanter I see a bunch of SF's none that I think would come in and unseat James Jhonson who I really his versatility, and we get Kluize back so those 2 should hold down the SF spot. PG I think Kemba would be a reach not a pass 1st PG but not a great scorer as of now which is what I would expect of a 6"0 170 LBS PG that is beat people of the dribble and ala AI score, Kemba does not have good D or a good frame.
So I think Kanter is the best fit for us inside the top 5. I would try trading Bargnani for a good PG or 2 players 1 starting PG or SF and a solid role guy.
Or trade Bargs to dump his contract for Maggette and if so run a unit of
calderon DD Jhonson Bargnani Kanter or Calderon Dd Jhonson Davis Bargnani but thats no improvment unless Ed hasa big breakout year.

wiuthout bargs
Jose/upgrade DD Fa/Jhonson Davis Kanter


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## speedythief

scdn said:


> Yeah but we don't want to just draft a big C because it would be nice to have one, unless they are a sure thing. We don't want to repeat 2004. The way this draft is sorting out, I might rather just package our #3 with Bargnani for a 2012 1st round pick.


Thank you, yes, we don't have even one position sorted out so why pick based on fit?


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## Junkyard Dog13

draft express has us taking Kemba now, I just don't want another Euro pick, we tried that route and has Garbo not gotton hurt we would have beaten the nets back in 07, but looking at bargs jose makes me want to say keep loaading up from the ncaa as we have 2 good-great picks last 2 years DD on stardom rise and a hard working interior PF in Davis.
I want no part of a 3 year project with Donatas, jan Veasely a tweener between PF and SF not enough offense to fit in at SF and I wont want a 6"10 SF not good enough knee bend or backpedal to gaurd elite SF's.
I won't mind but welcome Kanter a hard nose C who would pave the way for us to trade Bargs for 2 good players.


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## MonkeyBallZJr

^ who's gonna trade us two good players for Bargnani?


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## lucky777s

Only takes 1 team. PHX took Turkee, ORL took Turkee and Arenas, MEM took Zack and it worked. Someone will look at Bargs scoring numbers, his size, his age and decide they can make it work with him. You won't get a current all-star unless its a salary dump from a non-contender but you can get that second year player that hasn't had a chance to really shine and one legit starter.

I just worry that BC tries a desperate move to chase the 8/9 spot again next year if he is around. This year he had to be under control and listen to others because it was a contract year.

We desperately need to get lucky and somehow pick the impact player out of what looks to be a thin draft crop. There will be a star available but it won't be easy to figure out who that is by draft night.


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## ballocks

lottery night at last. the draft crop has thinned out somewhat (namely sullinger and barnes- and terrence jones for me, perry jones for some of you) but we were never going to pick more than one player... and there are still a few to be had. so we're not in bad shape (yet). 

i'll all over these guys:

1) derrick williams - he's getting a lot of praise these days. good for him. (i guess the media realized how badly it needed a #1? only joking... sort of.)

2) kyrie irving - see 1). thing is, i'm still thinking steve francis but i'll take my chances. maybe colangelo's imminent extension will help. keep in mind: i'm going on nothing but speculation here; i just don't think the raptors are an attractive team for anyone right now and i wouldn't be surprised. i hope i'm just paranoid. 

3) brandon knight - i love this kid. i love how his game evolved over the past year. i think everyone wants to play with him. he's a freshman who carried his team to the national championship game. he's a leader for a team (raptors) who are absolutely pathetic in that department.

4) kemba walker - another leader. i see some tj ford in his game but i could be wrong and i'm still a big fan. and i think this team could use more winners than they have now, so kemba would obviously fit the bill. other than ed davis, this team is corrupt with players who haven't won anything of significance recently (in some cases, like bargnani, ever). this draft may not have golden talent but it does feature some emotional pumps- alarm clock leaders to wake up dormant rosters. i see kemba as one. 

---

i'm sort of at the point where i think this team needs intangibles almost as much as it needs blue-chip talent, which serves us well heading into this draft. 

either way, all hope is not lost- yet. getting a top 2 pick would be awesome but not absolutely necessary imo. there are other choices here for the toronto raptors.

and final point: as far as the euros, i don't care how good you/we/they think they are- if you're the raptors, you walk away. i don't care if he's sabonis. the feeling around this team _today_ is simply too toxic to allow any european to thrive. just my op.

peace


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## seifer0406

#5

**** the world


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## lucky777s

About as bad as it could get for the Raps who tank in a crappy draft year and then get passed by 2 teams in the draft order. This is where Barnes and Jones backing out really hurts us. But maybe it takes the decision out of BC's hands kind of like with Ed Davis and Demar who fell into his lap. Irving, Williams, Kanter, Kemba, Knight are likely the top 5 right now before workouts. BC just takes whoever is left and we can be pretty sure one of the teams above us will screw up and leave us a nicer piece instead of BC being the one to screw up a top pick.


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## speedythief

ballocks said:


> and final point: as far as the euros, i don't care how good you/we/they think they are- if you're the raptors, you walk away. i don't care if he's sabonis. the feeling around this team _today_ is simply too toxic to allow any european to thrive. just my op.


This is probably the case. There wasn't a lot of high-level Euro talent available to us in the last two drafts. This time there will be 3-4 guys. A bit scary if Colangelo's infatuation with Euroball isn't something he's over. The fans certainly are.


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