# Amare to be named rookie of the year?? (merged)



## s a b a s 11

*Amare to be named rookie of the year??*

Don't know how credible this is but I hope its true so all those that think Yao gets everything because of the hype will have less to complain about.

Stuart



MESA, Ariz. (AP) -- Amare Stoudemire will win the NBA's rookie of the year award, according to a survey by the East Valley Tribune. 

The newspaper reported Tuesday that with more than 70 percent of the voters responding, the Phoenix Suns forward had an insurmountable lead over Houston center Yao Ming. 

The newspaper said 49 voters had Stoudemire first, to 31 for Yao. Miami forward Caron Butler had 11 first-place votes. 

All 91 of those responding had Stoudemire either first or second on their ballots, while Yao was picked third by 19 voters. A player receives five points for a first-place vote, three for second and one for third..."

Sorry you can't post whole articles.

rynobot


http://www.arizonatribune.com/index.php?sty=3554


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## walkon4

*well*

I love Amare's game. But I dont think anyone realizes the adjustment this kid named Yao Ming had to go through in order to play ball. It is a different world over here. He is still really young, and I think he played up to everyone's expectations, and he will only get better.

I just think Yao overcame the most, and demonstrated the best talent this season for ROY.


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## Hollis

It should be co-ROY, if not Yao winning it outright. Why else would they tell Yao not to leave the country yet?


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## Tenshi25

I think considering how close their stats are and the impact both players have had in their teams, a Co ROY would be the best solution, like when Francis and Brand shared the award few years ago.


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## Chicago_Cow

The only way that Ming won't get ROY is if there are still racism and discriminating existing in the NBA. Got to keep the Asian man down, right? Amare is putting up decent number but Ming is 15X better in term of fundamental and skills.


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## -33-

Caron deserves it more than Yao....

Caron and Amare co-ROY


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## toiletscrubber

well, I can kinda tell the bias in that comment......


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## Raptor Fan 42

I'm glad Amare is going to win, he deserves it. Butler was close behind, then Yao.


Studemire  :rbanana:


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## robyg1974

Does anybody else besides me not care AT ALL who wins Rookie of the Year? Am I the only one who is totally bored to DEATH of the Yao vs. Amare debate?


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## Hollis

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> Does anybody else besides me not care AT ALL who wins Rookie of the Year? Am I the only one who is totally bored to DEATH of the Yao vs. Amare debate?


Seriously. It's very easy to see that Yao has a much brighter future.


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## Cam*Ron

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> 
> 
> Seriously. It's very easy to see that Yao has a much brighter future.


man Yao is gonna be just like Manute Bol.


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## naM sdrawkcaB

Amare deserves ROY. He's put up just as good, if not better, stats on a solid playoff team.
The NBA wants Yao Ming to win ROY, they know it will further excite that little country with just over one billion people in it called China and get them even more into the NBA.
Anyways, I think the NBA will make Yao Ming ROY.


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## TheRifleman

*Re: Amare to be named rookie of the year??*



> Originally posted by <b>s a b a s 11</b>!
> Don't know how credible this is but I hope its true so all those that think Yao gets everything because of the hype will have less to complain about.
> 
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> MESA, Ariz. (AP) -- Amare Stoudemire will win the NBA's rookie of the year award, according to a survey by the East Valley Tribune.
> 
> The newspaper reported Tuesday that with more than 70 percent of the voters responding, the Phoenix Suns forward had an insurmountable lead over Houston center Yao Ming.
> 
> The newspaper said 49 voters had Stoudemire first, to 31 for Yao. Miami forward Caron Butler had 11 first-place votes.
> 
> All 91 of those responding had Stoudemire either first or second on their ballots, while Yao was picked third by 19 voters. A player receives five points for a first-place vote, three for second and one for third..."
> 
> Sorry you can't post whole articles.
> 
> rynobot
> 
> 
> http://www.arizonatribune.com/index.php?sty=3554


Fascinating! I think that Amare and Yao should share the award, as Yao has had much more to overcome coming to a new country, not speaking the language, and they both deserve to be recognized.


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## rainman

not raical but i think there is a bias by a lot of people in this country to support the american kid,their numbers were so close and they had a serious impact on the league i would see a strong case for both,although i do think hands down yao is a better overall talent.i go with roby on this one,who really cares?.all rookie of they year means is you had a chance to produce,a lot guys dont get that chance but 3 years later they are the better players.


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## s a b a s 11

I think many of us, (save for Caron Butler AND Caron_Butler) would probably shrug their shoulders, nod their heads and say "yeah thats about right" if both Amare and Yao shared ROY.

Its close enough stat-wise that I am actually for Amare winning the thing outright, just to get those displaying the obvious anti-Yao sentiment off his back for the summer.

With that, no matter what angle I look at it, I don't see how anybody could be mad if Yao won it outright. 

whatever... lets just have at it and get it over with.

STuart


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## TwinkieTowers

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> It should be co-ROY, if not Yao winning it outright. Why else would they tell Yao not to leave the country yet?


They won't tell Yao to leave the country because of SARS happening in China.


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## dmilesai

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> 
> man Yao is gonna be just like Manute Bol.


If you think that......I just don't know what to say.


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## MiamiHeat03

caron butler deserves more than yao and amare,he has higher stats than amare and yao.


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## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> 
> man Yao is gonna be just like Manute Bol.


Sure, which means Amare will be just like Bo Outlaw. He's in that caliber. Is it even a contest? No way Amare will win this one.


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## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>4</b>!
> 
> 
> what are you saying is PLAIN stupid !!!!!! yao was in the usa longgggg before SARS have actually taken the place, so why would you even bother bring up the topic ??
> :laugh:
> 
> i hope nba will make a happy ending for both of them, just let them share the rookie of year award, i am thinking a co-rookie between yao and amare !!!!! sure amare does not have the fundamentals and shooting skills of yao but he is one of the main reasons why suns are making into the playoff this year and thats quite an accomplishment for a young boy who has no experiance in top competition prior to graduating from high school !!


I think what he is trying to say is that they don't want yao to go to China because SARS is currently a major issue over there, and it is very risky for the * future of the NBA * and *2003 ROY* to be walking near fatal diseases.

Why will Yao be Rookie of the Year? Because he is in fact a marketing, global GIANT. Because the Suns have the phenomenal Stephon Marbury and Shawn Marion. Because Steve Francis did not perform well at the 2nd half of the season. Because Yao is a Franchise player not a role player. Because people come to Arena's to watch him. Because Amare's HIGHEST level of play is being seen now whereas Yao's play shows SO SO SO much more to come. Because when Yao Ming touched the ball in 2003 he was suffocated inside by *double and triple teams*. And because Yao Ming is THAT DAMN good, THAT DAMN mature, and Asian. Amare is a great player, he can definetly affect the course of a game, with his amazing physical strength, fearlessness.


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## TwinkieTowers

> Originally posted by <b>4</b>!
> 
> 
> what are you saying is PLAIN stupid !!!!!! yao was in the usa longgggg before SARS have actually taken the place, so why would you even bother bring up the topic ??
> :laugh:
> 
> i hope nba will make a happy ending for both of them, just let them share the rookie of year award, i am thinking a co-rookie between yao and amare !!!!! sure amare does not have the fundamentals and shooting skills of yao but he is one of the main reasons why suns are making into the playoff this year and thats quite an accomplishment for a young boy who has no experiance in top competition prior to graduating from high school !!


Umm, I meant leaving the U.S., not China, as did the poster I quoted.


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## Hollis

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> 
> man Yao is gonna be just like Manute Bol.


I can't say what I want to say because if I did, I'd be banned. So instead I'll just roll my eyes.


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## Hollis

To all these Butler fans....

*Butler*
15.4 ppg
5 rpg
2.7 apg
41.6% FG

*Amare*
14.5
7.5 rpg
47.8% FG

*Ming*
13.5 ppg
8.2 rpg
1.7 apg
49.8% FG

Butler is the Heat's main scoring threat. Ming and Amare play 3rd fiddle on their teams.


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## TwinkieTowers

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> To all these Butler fans....
> 
> *Butler*
> 15.4 ppg
> 5 rpg
> 2.7 apg
> 41.6% FG
> 
> *Amare*
> 14.5
> 7.5 rpg
> 47.8% FG
> 
> *Ming*
> 13.5 ppg
> 8.2 rpg
> 1.7 apg
> 49.8% FG
> 
> Butler is the Heat's main scoring threat. Ming and Amare play 3rd fiddle on their teams.


I'm assuming that you are against Butler being considered for ROY. Here's my assessment:

If Butler is the main scoring threat on the Heat, why is he only averaging 15 points per game? Elton Brand was the main scoring threat on a horrible Bulls team, yet he was able to average a lofty 20 points per game as well as 10 rebounds per game! Same argument goes for Steve Francis. He was either the main scorer or second option on a mediocre Rockets team that consisted of Cuttino Mobley and an aging Hakeem Olajuwon. Francis was able to put up about 18 points per game as well as high rebound numbers for a point guard and decent assist numbers.

As the main go to guy, Butler should have averaged around 20 points per game if he were to have any kind of consideration for ROY.


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## MiamiHeat03

while caron gets double team all the time where he is only the main treat on the heat.


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## Hollis

> Originally posted by <b>TwinkieTowers</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you are against Butler being considered for ROY. Here's my assessment:
> 
> If Butler is the main scoring threat on the Heat, why is he only averaging 15 points per game? Elton Brand was the main scoring threat on a horrible Bulls team, yet he was able to average a lofty 20 points per game as well as 10 rebounds per game! Same argument goes for Steve Francis. He was either the main scorer or second option on a mediocre Rockets team that consisted of Cuttino Mobley and an aging Hakeem Olajuwon. Francis was able to put up about 18 points per game as well as high rebound numbers for a point guard and decent assist numbers.
> 
> As the main go to guy, Butler should have averaged around 20 points per game if he were to have any kind of consideration for ROY.


I think you're agreeing with me......I posted those numbers because he should not be ROY.


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## TwinkieTowers

> Originally posted by <b>MiamiHeat03</b>!
> while caron gets double team all the time where he is only the main treat on the heat.


Just like Elton Brand. Yet, Brand still had good numbers for an undersized rookie power forward. Brand's rookie year was when an injured Toni Kukoc (the last holdover of the Bulls dynasty) was traded mid-season and Ron Mercer was not on that team until the next season. The other "scoring" options on that team: Brad Miller (a lower-tier center at the time) and fellow rookie Ron Artest.


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## Bball_Doctor

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> It should be co-ROY, if not Yao winning it outright. Why else would they tell Yao not to leave the country yet?


SARS seriously. AS for co-ROY this is the tightest race since Brand and Francis and we know how they turned out. No matter who wins I see both players as ROY.


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## MiamiHeat03

back when brand play in chicago they had better roster than miami.Look at miami roster its bad and while eddie jones injured there was no other scoring threat besides caon butler.


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## Stojakovic16

Yao will win, mainly because Stern has no other choice. If Yao loses, there could be backlash in China, and he could lose a LOT of money. IMO Yao has already won.


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## s a b a s 11

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> SARS seriously. AS for co-ROY this is the tightest race since Brand and Francis and we know how they turned out. No matter who wins I see both players as ROY.


No. They told him not to leave the country because he has a high-probability of winning/sharing the ROY, not because of SARS. People, there is MAYBE 500 cases of SARS, even if ALL the cases were in china, you have to remember there is over a billion people in China (ask those people that complained about Yao making the all-star game) and SARS has a 96% recovery rate.

EVEN SO, Yao is a national treasure, he will be taken care of from the time he gets aboard a plane to the time he leaves. Seriously people, he is not going back home to a disease infested village and sleeping in a dirt hut.

Stuart


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## -33-

easy answer

do the right thing

GIVE IT TO CARON


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## NugzFan

co roys would have been fine but if i had to pick i pick amare no doubt. he did far more against harder competition than yao did. p lus the whole playoff thing.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> easy answer
> 
> do the right thing
> 
> GIVE IT TO CARON


:laugh: :laugh:


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## naM sdrawkcaB

I like caron, probaly because he's the underdog. I'd like to see Tri-Rookies of the Year between Amare, Yao, and Caron. Also whats with all the hype on Yao Ming? The future of the NBA? Huh? Is ht ethat good? Sure he's young, big , and skilled, but he's also softer than a roll of expensive toilet paper and he's way too passive on the court. I just dont know what the deal with all the Yao hype is. I heard Bill Walton blabbin on about how Yao was gonna change the game. What an idiot. I think Bill Walton wants to pack Yaos fudge or something. And Amare puts up decent numbers but his offensive game looks pretty trashy. No real skills in the post, just catch the rebound, throw it up towards the basket and hope it goes in, not much better than Ben Wallace. Caron's good, not sure if he'll ever be up there with Pierce though who knows? His fg% was bad though. If he could move it up to around 45-47% he'd be averaging around 20. Oh well i guess you coul say that about a lot of players.


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## FatDaddy

Most of the voter are Black?


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## wesborland

*what if yao wins*

if Yao wins, people would think they give it to him because he's chinese... and if he loses, people would think he did not get it because he's chinese.... hahahaha.... tough decision....


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## -33-

when yao loses, its because he really didnt deserve it


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## s a b a s 11

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> when yao loses, its because he really didnt deserve it


Man, you are one funny guy. And if Yao wins it, he won because of all the hype or he was Chinese right?

So enlighten me, what happens when Caron loses the ROY? Is it because he wasn't on TV as much as Yao? Was it because he wasn't on a winning team like Amare? No wait, he was the leading scorer on that team so thats why he should win it. It was probably because he lead all rookies in scoring, but wait he shot BELOW 42% from the field. Tell me what would be your reasoning when Caron Butler loses out? Since you seem to like to butter both sides of the toast. 

Will you make excuses or will "he really (not) deserve it"??

STuart


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## -33-

i dont need a trophy to know who the best rookie is...you probably havent watched caron since he isnt on TV every week...but you'll see him soon enough


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## TwinkieTowers

Once again, since Caron is the supposedly the ONLY scoring option on the Heat, why did he only average 15 points per game?

And then, how was this Heat team worse than the Bulls 1999-2000 Bulls, which went 17-65?!?!?!?!?!?! That Bulls team made me cry, but at least Elton Brand did put up 20 points and 10 rebounds.

If Yao was the only scoring option on that Rockets team, he would have put up a 20 and 10. Yao is a 7'5" version of Tim Duncan and Elton Brand -- two fundamentally sound big men.


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## TwinkieTowers

Don't forget the intangibles Yao and Stoudemire bring to their teams. If your team stinks, you better have great numbers to support your case for ROY. Recent examples: Brand, Shaq, Vince Carter, Pau Gasol.

In this case, Butler's team flat out stinks, but his numbers are not that great to warrant a ROY. I'd actually put Drew Gooden ahead of Butler.


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## s a b a s 11

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> i dont need a trophy to know who the best rookie is...


Then stop "arguing" about it.

Stuart


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## -33-

He wouldnt put up 20-10 b/c he's not a post player like yao or amare

he wasnt the only option--Grant scores 10-10 everynight if not more.....

you guys can discount him all you want....i've read he might get 2nd over yao which would make me happy....yao hasnt done much....he hit the wall in febuary but espn still rode him til the finish...yao is a great player but caron was better this year


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## TheMatrix31

Go !! MaN ChiLd ROY baby


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## MiamiHeat03

> If Yao was the only scoring option on that Rockets team, he would have put up a 20 and 10. Yao is a 7'5" version of Tim Duncan and Elton Brand -- two fundamentally sound big men.


I Dont think so....
yao wouldnt make 20/10 in the first season maybe the 2nd season but not the 1st year.not many international player did that went coming from other countries.Just because yao average 30ppg and 20rpg in China doesnt mean he would have a very good first season in the NBA


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## Hollis

> Originally posted by <b>MiamiHeat03</b>!
> 
> 
> I Dont think so....
> yao wouldnt make 20/10 in the first season maybe the 2nd season but not the 1st year.not many international player did that went coming from other countries.Just because yao average 30ppg and 20rpg in China doesnt mean he would have a very good first season in the NBA


Are you aware how good he did this year? He had SEVERAL monster games, ~30+ points, 20+ rebounds.


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## -33-

"Are you aware how good he did this year? He had SEVERAL monster games, ~30+ points, 20+ rebounds."


and are you aware of how many games he had nothing?

he had more crappy 2pt 5reb games than he had 30pt20reb

Yao reached 30 pts ONLY ONCE!
Yao had 20+ rebounds NEVER! the closest he came was 18!


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## Hollis

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> "Are you aware how good he did this year? He had SEVERAL monster games, ~30+ points, 20+ rebounds."
> 
> 
> and are you aware of how many games he had nothing?
> 
> he had more crappy 2pt 5reb games than he had 30pt20reb
> 
> Yao reached 30 pts ONLY ONCE!
> Yao had 20+ rebounds NEVER! the closest he came was 18!


OK. I guess I should cut you guys a little slack....Caron winning ROY is the closest thing to anything good the Heat will have in a loooooong time.


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## BTU2K2

maybe amare wont be like the otha bust aka DAMON!!!


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## sylaw

Caron can only average a couple of points more than Yao even though he was a third option and at best a second option most of the year while Caron was mostly first option or second. Yao shot a much better percentage from the field as well. Butler's sg/sf so he shouldn't rebound as well as Yao but there's a three rebound difference to only only one assist difference in Caron's favor. Yao blocks shots and Caron steals the ball so they kind of cancel each other out there. Caron is also the rookie leader in turnovers. But then we have to account 7 minute extra that Caron is accumulating his stats for. Not to mention the fact that Miami was a non-contender all year on the weaker Eastern conference while Houston was contending most of they year for a playoff spot. When you put all that together, it's really obvious who had a better year.

As for comparing Amare and Yao, they both have very similar stats. Yao and Amare and basically tied in the point department. But when you look deeper into it, you see that Yao shoots a better fg percentage and a lot higher ft percentage. Amare has the edge in terms of rebounding and steals but Yao has the edge in block shots and assists. Yao also turns over the ball slightly lower than Amare. Amare has a slight edge in that his team did make it to the playoffs over Houston but Houston was able to take the season series from them 3-1. Overall, Yao should have a tiny edge over Amare in terms of overall performance and value.

As for a final stat, Yao is highest rookie efficiency rating and the most double-doubles.

As you can see, it looks to me like Yao deserves the ROY while a co-ROY wouldn't be a stretch. I try not to add any unnecessary biases in this.


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## -33-

Amare can win ROY
Yao can win most hyped, undeserving all-star rookie of the year

if you dont believe in the ESPN Hype---read Mark Stein's article where Yao is a 3rd team All-NBA pick----ARE YOU SERIOUS????


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## wesborland

yao is hyped by media... nothing else...

if amare won't win the ROY... give it to Caron or even Dajuan...


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## -33-

it should be either amare or caron.....or co-roy

i am fine with amare winning and caron 2nd b/c amare had a hell of a season


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## HAWK23

looks like ESPN.com is confirming Amare will win ROY:

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0422/1542566.html


it looks like this is the same article as the first one but it's on ESPN's site...


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## s a b a s 11

> Originally posted by <b>sylaw</b>!
> Caron can only average a couple of points more than Yao even though he was a third option and at best a second option most of the year while Caron was mostly first option or second. Yao shot a much better percentage from the field as well. Butler's sg/sf so he shouldn't rebound as well as Yao but there's a three rebound difference to only only one assist difference in Caron's favor. Yao blocks shots and Caron steals the ball so they kind of cancel each other out there. Caron is also the rookie leader in turnovers. But then we have to account 7 minute extra that Caron is accumulating his stats for. Not to mention the fact that Miami was a non-contender all year on the weaker Eastern conference while Houston was contending most of they year for a playoff spot. When you put all that together, it's really obvious who had a better year.
> 
> As for comparing Amare and Yao, they both have very similar stats. Yao and Amare and basically tied in the point department. But when you look deeper into it, you see that Yao shoots a better fg percentage and a lot higher ft percentage. Amare has the edge in terms of rebounding and steals but Yao has the edge in block shots and assists. Yao also turns over the ball slightly lower than Amare. Amare has a slight edge in that his team did make it to the playoffs over Houston but Houston was able to take the season series from them 3-1. Overall, Yao should have a tiny edge over Amare in terms of overall performance and value.
> 
> As for a final stat, Yao is highest rookie efficiency rating and the most double-doubles.
> 
> As you can see, it looks to me like Yao deserves the ROY while a co-ROY wouldn't be a stretch. I try not to add any unnecessary biases in this.


Sy, 

You'll find that actual arguing points will do you no good, those 2-3 Caron lovers are apparently Caron's mother and father, unwilling to listen to anything other than the sound of their internet voices .

You can type out page after page of valid points and counterpoints, but what you'll get back is..



> Amare can win ROY
> Yao can win most hyped, undeserving all-star rookie of the year
> 
> if you dont believe in the ESPN Hype---read Mark Stein's article where Yao is a 3rd team All-NBA pick----ARE YOU SERIOUS????


so don't bother, I argued this dude into the ground in another thread, and here is trying to rehash the same crap.

Save your breath people if you are going to argue about Caron's chances of winning. 

Stuart


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## sylaw

You're right Sabas, I'm probably wasting my time even trying. Caron_Butler keeps saying Yao is undeserving and Butler is deserving but has yet to back it up with any evidence. I don't mind a friendly discussion but I hate it when people keep saying they're right without any justifications or proof. If you can prove your point with facts then I will be content to agree with you but this is not the case.


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## carayip

Although I don't think Yao deserve to be named to the All-NBA team, I would love to see that just to piss off some haters. :laugh: 

He seemed to get quite a lot of 3rd team votes BTW.

Was there ever a rookie lost ROY but named to the All-NBA team?


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## King Alley

Congrats to Amare on ROY. If Yao got the ball more he would have won it.


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## Amareca

And if Amare got the ball more he would have won it without discussion.

blablabla


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## bballfan88

*Amare Stoudemire is confirmed to be ROY*

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/johnson_ktar_030423.html

Frank Johnson confirmed that Amare is named the Rookie of the Year.



i still think it should be co-rookie of the year with Yao and Amare both getting it


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## Julo

props to Amare... I think he had a shot at it as good as anyone, and getting that 8th seed gave him an advantage over Yao.

trudat... I think they could have been co-ROYs... oh well, with the race as tight as it iz, I guess there would be controversy no matter who takez it


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## HAWK23

LMAO there is already a 60 reply thread about this? 

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26765


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## MiamiHeat03

there is another thread like this.We know amare has won it.


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## Hollis

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> Amare can win ROY
> Yao can win most hyped, undeserving all-star rookie of the year
> 
> if you dont believe in the ESPN Hype---read Mark Stein's article where Yao is a 3rd team All-NBA pick----ARE YOU SERIOUS????





> it should be either amare or caron.....or co-roy
> 
> i am fine with amare winning and caron 2nd b/c amare had a hell of a season


You DEFINE the word "homer". So what Center would you put above Yao?


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## s a b a s 11

Its OFFICIAL now.

http://www.nba.com/milk_rookie/roy_030424.html

2002-03 got milk? NBA ROOKIE OF THE YEAR AWARD VOTING RESULTS

Player,Team 1st 2nd 3rd Pts 
Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 59 53 4 - (458)
Yao Ming, Houston 45 54 18 - (405)
Caron Butler, Miami 13 9 87 - (179) 
Emanuel Ginobili, SanAntonio 0 1 2 - (5) 
Drew Gooden, Orlando 0 0 3 - (3) 
Nene Hilario, Denver 0 0 2 - (2) 
Carlos Boozer, Cleveland 0 0 1 - (1) 

I guess there are third place votes whoever told me there wasn't.

Stuart


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## Hollis

Wow. Drew Gooden should've gotten more votes IMO......


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## Damian Necronamous

I would've gone with Co-Rookies of the Year. But Amare had more big games, and Yao had more games where he was pretty much unaffective.

Also...the Suns made the Playoffs and the Rockets didn't. So, if I had to pick one for it, it would definitely be Amare.

Congrats Amare!:yes:


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## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>s a b a s 11</b>!
> Player,Team 1st 2nd 3rd Pts
> Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 59 53 4 - (458)
> Yao Ming, Houston 45 54 18 - (405)
> Caron Butler, Miami 13 9 87 - (179)
> Emanuel Ginobili, SanAntonio 0 1 2 - (5)
> Drew Gooden, Orlando 0 0 3 - (3)
> Nene Hilario, Denver 0 0 2 - (2)
> Carlos Boozer, Cleveland 0 0 1 - (1)


Ginobili having more points than Gooden and Hilario is absolutely ridiculous.


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## RangerC

Yao got SCREWED. His numbers were the best of the 3 players, and his team finished a whopping 1 GAME behind the Suns - their 43 wins were good enough for 7th in the LEast (even before adjusting for the schedule) - he led his team to a top 16 finish (which should get you to the playoffs); it's just that they had the misfortune of playing out West - it isn't as if the Suns won 50 and the Rockets 20 - ONE GAME separated the two teams (and the Rox won the season series 3-1).

NBA.com's efficiency rating (((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G) illustrates why this is such a screwjob: Yao Ming is 37th in the whole NBA in just 30 minutes per game. Per 48 minutes, he's 17th best in the ENTIRE LEAGUE. Caron and Amare - they can't even crack the top 75 (either raw or per 48) because Amare is a TO machine (2.3 in just 31 mpg) who has one of the worst AST/TO ratios in the entire NBA (.435) and Butler is a terrible shooter (.416%).

Yao Ming was a better FG% shooter than either player, the best rebounder (just edged out Stoudamire in rebounds per 48), had the most double-doubles, had the best AST/TO ratio, blocked the most shots - there was NO area in which Stoudamire was better (don't even start with Butler - [strike]the 13 idiots[/strike] who voted for him should lose their voting priviledges forever), yet Stoudamire wins because his team won ONE MORE GAME. Unbelievable. What a travesty.

come on you know you can't calll people names on here.

rynobot


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Many props to Amare, who definitely plays the game with a passion already equal that of KG's.


----------



## toiletscrubber

I am a Yao Ming fan..so my comment might sound bitter right now, but why can't it be a Co-Rookie of the year? Well, it happen before, Brand and Francis, Kidd and Hill, and the biggest problem is, if you are the owner of a team, and u get to pick Yao or Amare to be on ur team, you will still go for Yao.


----------



## RangerC

The '13 idiots' comment was in regard to the 13 1st place votes Butler recieved from sportswriters, not to posters on this board. Not sure what's wrong with that - I don't see people getting censored for calling Scott Layden an idiot, or for far more scathing criticisms of players.

.


----------



## rynobot

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you refering to the posters in here that are always saying that Caron deserves the ROY of this year


----------



## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>toiletscrubber</b>!
> I am a Yao Ming fan..so my comment might sound bitter right now, but why can't it be a Co-Rookie of the year? Well, it happen before, Brand and Francis, Kidd and Hill, and the biggest problem is, if you are the owner of a team, and u get to pick Yao or Amare to be on ur team, you will still go for Yao.


Because it is done by points, so unless all the voters got together and decided exactly how many points to give each guy to make it a co-roy, the chances of it happening are slim.

Both probably deserved the award, and the voting was pretty close so obviously Yao got some respect. I dont think you can argue either way.

I'd like to know who gave Carlos Boozer a 3rd place vote over Yao, Stoudemire, and Butler. I am surprised anyone else besides those three got votes.


----------



## TMOD

*Rantification...*

Anybody who actually knows basketball, and watched all of them play, *KNOWS* that it should've been co-ROY, if not Yao outright. Yao has better stats, easily, and hammers Amare and Caron in the intangibles department, too. If you argue this, _you are wrong_, and need to watch more games and better educate yourself on basketball.

Time to get me a sig!


----------



## JNice

*Re: Rantification...*



> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> Anybody who actually knows basketball, and watched all of them play, *KNOWS* that it should've been co-ROY, if not Yao outright. Yao has better stats, easily, and hammers Amare and Caron in the intangibles department, too. If you argue this, _you are wrong_, and need to watch more games and better educate yourself on basketball.
> 
> Time to get me a sig!


How does he have better stats? From what I saw he only avg'd .1 more points per game and Amare got more rebounds. Yao led slightly in blocks.

They were pretty much dead even, including the effects on their teams.

Should have been co, but again it comes down to voting, so they cant just make it a co-roy.. Anyone who argues for Amare is not wrong at all.


----------



## TMOD

> How does he have better stats? From what I saw he only avg'd .1 more points per game and Amare got more rebounds. Yao led slightly in blocks.
> 
> They were pretty much dead even, including the effects on their teams.
> 
> Should have been co, but again it comes down to voting, so they cant just make it a co-roy.. Anyone who argues for Amare is not wrong at all.


There's more to stats then just points, blocks, and rebounds. Look at RangerC's argument. Yao's effect for his minutes, touches, and the style of the Rockets was much more remarkable.


----------



## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> 
> There's more to stats then just points, blocks, and rebounds. Look at RangerC's argument. Yao's effect for his minutes, touches, and the style of the Rockets was much more remarkable.


What is remarkable is that a portion of Houston's offense was built to run through Yao, but Amare did most of his work without plays run for him and off the ball.

Either way, you cant argue conclusively for either and you certainly cant say someone that favors Amare is wrong.


----------



## -33-

Caron still deserves it


----------



## Fatboy

What is remarkable is that a portion of Houston's offense was built to run through Yao, but Amare did most of his work without plays run for him and off the ball.


??? Run through Yao? Then why Yao has less FGA than Amare(9.8-10.1)? 



===========
Yao = much better player and unselfish!


----------



## RangerC

*Re: Re: Rantification...*



> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> How does he have better stats? From what I saw he only avg'd .1 more points per game and Amare got more rebounds. Yao led slightly in blocks.
> 
> They were pretty much dead even, including the effects on their teams.


The statistics looks similar on the surface:

Amare: 13.5 ppg, 8.8 rpg
Yao: 13.5 ppg. 8.2 rpg

However, if you look a bit more deeply (which the voters apparently did not do), Ming has an advantage in every area.

Yao shot .498% from the field (15th in the NBA) and averaged 1.37 points per shot. Stoudamire shot .472 from the field (26th in the NBA) and averaged 1.33 points per shot. Close, but clear advantage Ming in offensive efficiency. 

Yao averaged 1.7 apg and 2.1 TO per game for a mediocre .81 AST/TO ratio. Amare averaged 1 apg and 2.3 TO per game for a horrible .43 AST/TO ratio. Neither guy is up to snuff, but advantage Ming.

Yao averaged 1.74 blocks per game, Amare 1.06. Advantage, Yao (.68 more blocks per game is a significant edge).

Amare did average .6 rebounds more per game; however, per minute, Yao was actually the superior rebounder, so rebounding is a wash.

Any statistical formula like Pro Basketball Prospectus's PER or NBA.com efficiency rating that combines statistics into one score will come out dramatically in favor of Ming. While the two player's net production is very similar, Ming is just a FAR more efficient player. If Stoudamire's team would have been significantly better, that might have been enough to overcome Ming's superior efficiency and shotblocking, but there was a 1 game difference, and both teams had playoff records.


----------



## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Fatboy</b>!
> What is remarkable is that a portion of Houston's offense was built to run through Yao, but Amare did most of his work without plays run for him and off the ball.
> 
> 
> ??? Run through Yao? Then why Yao has less FGA than Amare(9.8-10.1)?
> 
> 
> 
> ===========
> Yao = much better player and unselfish!



FGA attempts doesnt mean the ball wasn't run through him a lot.


----------



## JNice

*Re: Re: Re: Rantification...*



> Originally posted by <b>RangerC</b>!
> 
> 
> The statistics looks similar on the surface:
> 
> Amare: 13.5 ppg, 8.8 rpg
> Yao: 13.5 ppg. 8.2 rpg
> 
> However, if you look a bit more deeply (which the voters apparently did not do), Ming has an advantage in every area.
> 
> Yao shot .498% from the field (15th in the NBA) and averaged 1.37 points per shot. Stoudamire shot .472 from the field (26th in the NBA) and averaged 1.33 points per shot. Close, but clear advantage Ming in offensive efficiency.
> 
> Yao averaged 1.7 apg and 2.1 TO per game for a mediocre .81 AST/TO ratio. Amare averaged 1 apg and 2.3 TO per game for a horrible .43 AST/TO ratio. Neither guy is up to snuff, but advantage Ming.
> 
> Yao averaged 1.74 blocks per game, Amare 1.06. Advantage, Yao (.68 more blocks per game is a significant edge).
> 
> Amare did average .6 rebounds more per game; however, per minute, Yao was actually the superior rebounder, so rebounding is a wash.
> 
> Any statistical formula like Pro Basketball Prospectus's PER or NBA.com efficiency rating that combines statistics into one score will come out dramatically in favor of Ming. While the two player's net production is very similar, Ming is just a FAR more efficient player. If Stoudamire's team would have been significantly better, that might have been enough to overcome Ming's superior efficiency and shotblocking, but there was a 1 game difference, and both teams had playoff records.


You are talking about such small differences. I understand any argument for Yao, but I dont believe you can argue against Amare either.

When you start talking about .1 this or .3 that, you should not use any definitive statements.

Just something else for people to get into a huff about. Both guys were deserving, one had to win.


----------



## s a b a s 11

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you refering to the posters in here that are always saying that Caron deserves the ROY of this year


nah, theres only like 3-4 of them

Stuart


----------



## digital jello

Boo.

Yao should have won.


----------



## TMOD

> You are talking about such small differences. I understand any argument for Yao, but I dont believe you can argue against Amare either.
> 
> When you start talking about .1 this or .3 that, you should not use any definitive statements.
> 
> Just something else for people to get into a huff about. Both guys were deserving, one had to win.


0.7 is not a small difference in blocks; it is in fact a huge difference. 0.6 for rebounds isn't huge, but then again that is a wash due to minutes. The stats don't lie, and every basketball (not athletic, BASKETBALL) argument beyond stats is in Yao's favor by far. 


> What is remarkable is that a portion of Houston's offense was built to run through Yao, but Amare did most of his work without plays run for him and off the ball.


Amare isn't exactly a player that you _would_ run plays for; he isn't really good enough an option, but what he is good at is feeding off of Marbury and Marion's penetration to the hoop. Yao, for his go-to post ability, got about 60% of the touches he should've gotten. To be effective, Yao needs touches, but Stoud doesn't as much. Yao was still effective with few touches, that just shows how deep his effect on a game is. Watching the Suns, the difference between Outlaw and Stoudemire's impact isn't that huge, other than Amare's presence due to size and power. Nobody in their right mind would say Bo Outlaw is anywhere near Yao, and Stoudemire isn't that far ahead of Outlaw (who is a monster on D, Stoud can be a liability).


----------



## shoprite

Both are deserving , even though I think Yao should win. Actually Yao's hype worked against him. Voters expected more from him at the end of the season. Everytime a #7 pick gets similar stats as #1 pick, that #7 pick is likely to get more votes. Making playoff and being hometown boy also helped. Congrats to Amare and no shame for Yao.


----------



## The_Franchise

*Why Amare is ROY*

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030424.wrook24/BNStory/Sports

Plain and simple because Marbury played better down the stretch than Francis and carried his team into the playoffs. 
This is a scandal. No person that is unbiased can think in any way Amare deserved ROY more than Yao. Maybe the sportswriters and broadcasters were out to prove a point that they are not swayed by the popular opinion. Maybe they wanted to keep the foreign man down, well that isn't it but I'm furious. This is a petty, petty deed by those who have voted for Amare. He beat Yao by 458 points to 405 points. I know ROY isn't about potential, because if it was only writers in Arizona would have voted for Amare. But the fact is Yao contributed more to his team's success than Amare, by far. Yao Ming is a better all round basketball player than Amare. 

"It's been a great accomplishment for me," Stoudemire said. "I give all the respect to my teammates. Without them, it wouldn't be possible."

Your damn right.


----------



## The_Franchise

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=303304#post303304

...This is bigger than watergate.


----------



## rainman

i agree with what you're saying but this is a pretty meaningless award.i mean who really cares who the roy is?in most cases it is a guy who goes to a bad team and gets a lot of minutes to put up some numbers.it really has little bearing on who will be the best player or players out of this class.


----------



## Stojakovic16

Yao got screwed. They got his and his fans' hopes up, and then pick Amare, a guy that has 2 other excellent players beside him.


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> What is remarkable is that a portion of Houston's offense was built to run through Yao, but Amare did most of his work without plays run for him and off the ball.
> 
> Either way, you cant argue conclusively for either and you certainly cant say someone that favors Amare is wrong.


Amare wasn't suffocated by double and triple teams. Amare has an arsenal of 1 OFFENSIVE MOVE and the rest of his points are from dunks or beautiful feeds from marbury. Throw it down you thief, THROW IT DOWN. Yao's HYPE did work against him, Marbury is the sole reason Phoenix wen tinto the playoffs down the stretch, amare got his 10 rebounds and 10 points a game, which is what role players do. 

PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS 
*
Yao touches the ball the defense swarms in on him, opening up players all around him. If only Mobley,Francis,Posey and especially griffin could capitalize on the money opportunites Yao gave them this season. Oh well, crimes are any everyday thing.*

Those annoying Heat fans, like little crickets croaking and wining for Caron Butler. Where's my fly swatter...


----------



## toiletscrubber

But the effect that Yao bring to the game is never seen before!

I bet that if u going ask everyone in the world, excluding China for sure, more ppl will know about Yao than Amare


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> Caron still deserves it


What a biased statement. Did Caron take a lottery team to the Playoffs? No.


----------



## The_Franchise

*Shock and Awe Club*

Join one, join all. In this pilferage and maurading of Yao Ming.


----------



## MiamiHeat03

congrads to amare


----------



## Fatboy

Yao got robbed!


----------



## FatDaddy

Amare doesn't deserved to be top 3 rookies based on play per 48 minutes. Jwill is the ROY.


----------



## MiamiHeat03

yeah its actually the truth.marbury had his best carreer this season and thats why they made it to the playoffs.Steve francis hasnt improve neither did mobley but still they were pretty close to the #8th spot.


----------



## FSH

i still think bulter should of got roy i dont care what anyone says..


----------



## Stojakovic16

> Originally posted by <b>Four_Season_Hustler</b>!
> i still think bulter should of got roy i dont care what anyone says..



Good attitude! :|


----------



## HAWK23

I can't believe some of you care so much... it's JUST rookie of the year


----------



## MiamiHeat03

> i still think bulter should of got roy i dont care what anyone says..


are you a heat fan?it your not is the first time other then heat fan saying how good caron is.


----------



## FatDaddy

*Why Amare doesn't deserve to be ROY?*

1. his impact can't compare with Yao. (8 to 15, not even close)
2. his assist (0.9 in 31 minutes) is the one of the worst of the rookies. He can't make the teammates better.
3. his inside present can't compare with yao too.


----------



## HAWK23

yay lets start ANOTHER amare ROY thread :sigh:


----------



## Stojakovic16

His teammates make him look a lot better than he is. Marion and Marbury are awesome, but everybody seems to comment about Amare leading the team!!!


----------



## Stojakovic16

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> yay lets start ANOTHER amare ROY thread :sigh:



This is a very serious issue.


----------



## The_Franchise

How about starting a Caron Butler should be ROy thread? Then maybe a John Stockton should be MVP. Jolly biscuits. Where are the British ballers?


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>Stojakovic16</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very serious issue.


----------



## RapsFan

Amare's teammates amke him look a lot better than he is? Amare didn't choose where he got drafted. So what if he had Marbury and Marion with him. Mark Madsen has Kobe and Shaq on his team but does that make him look better? Is anyone going to say Madsen is a better basketball player than Amare? If they do they are joking or biased. He only averaged an assisst a game, but he is a post player. He is not the ignitor of the offense. Not every player can be an amazing all around player. That's why we put Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, and McGrady at a higher level than everyone else. They are the only players who can do it all. Amare and Yao had a great year, I personally think Stoudemire had a better year as far as consistency. Yao has done more for the sport and business aspect of basketball and the NBA, but Amare had a better season in my opinion.


----------



## s a b a s 11

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> How about starting a Caron Butler should be ROy thread? Then maybe a John Stockton should be MVP. Jolly biscuits. Where are the British ballers?


Jolly biscuits?

Stuart


----------



## TwinkieTowers

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> Amare wasn't suffocated by double and triple teams. Amare has an arsenal of 1 OFFENSIVE MOVE and the rest of his points are from dunks or beautiful feeds from marbury. Throw it down you thief, THROW IT DOWN. Yao's HYPE did work against him, Marbury is the sole reason Phoenix wen tinto the playoffs down the stretch, amare got his 10 rebounds and 10 points a game, which is what role players do.
> 
> PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS
> *
> Yao touches the ball the defense swarms in on him, opening up players all around him. If only Mobley,Francis,Posey and especially griffin could capitalize on the money opportunites Yao gave them this season. Oh well, crimes are any everyday thing.*
> 
> Those annoying Heat fans, like little crickets croaking and wining for Caron Butler. Where's my fly swatter...


So what if Amare "only" has the dunk?!?!?!?! You apparently don't understand how hard it is to actually get to the rim in the NBA. Your dunk argument weak -- almost as if you think Shaq didn't deserve the ROY award because he could only dunk.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

> Originally posted by <b>FatDaddy</b>!
> Amare doesn't deserved to be top 3 rookies based on play per 48 minutes. Jwill is the ROY.


JWill should win RPOY.


----------



## Vince Carter

Congradulations to Amare he's the first Pheonix Sun to win the R.O.Y since Davis won it in 1978 or 1976 not to sure.


----------



## carayip

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe some of you care so much... it's JUST rookie of the year


I agree. People forget that Yao's an NBA ALL-STAR. I bet many people (Pau Gasol, Mike Miller to name a few) would gladly trade their ROY trophy for an All-Star appearance.

Yao fans don't need to be worried.


----------



## Amareca

Unfortunately supernerd '' the franchise'' forgets that Yao sucked in the last month as well.

11.8ppg 39.7%FG 1.63bpg 0.75spg 2.3apg 8.6rpg

Amare

14.1ppg 50%FG 1.67bpg1.56spg 1.1apg 7rpg


----------



## Fatboy

Last month is actualy 2 weeks and under Larry * Smith! This is ROY not ROM!!!!


----------



## Amareca




----------



## Jamel Irief

Sorry Amare deserved it more and it has nothing to do with the playoffs in my eyes. Yao is probably the most inconsistant player in the NBA. It can't be great not knowing if your center will give you 25 points and 10 boards or 5 points and 2 boards on a given night.


----------



## John

Sorry if I am racist because Yao Ming the Chinese dont even think about playing great in the NBA! By the way, I am chinese!


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>TwinkieTowers</b>!
> 
> 
> So what if Amare "only" has the dunk?!?!?!?! You apparently don't understand how hard it is to actually get to the rim in the NBA. Your dunk argument weak -- almost as if you think Shaq didn't deserve the ROY award because he could only dunk.


Shaq has a huge number of moves, is an excellent and underrated passer, and a great positioner. Not to mention he scores 3 times more points than Amare...

True, ROY isn't a big deal, but the fact that Yao didn't win it gets me very angry. Inconsistency, well Yao has been playing basketball for 2 years STRAIGHT or more than that, someone have anything more accurate...

Supergeek Big Amare has dug up bull**** facts to diminish the little crediblity he did have.


----------



## Amareca

Since when is Shaq averaging 40ppg [strike]Moron.[/strike]personal attacks will not be tolerated, if you do it agian you will be suspended. rynobot

You take a dunk for granted but fact is that teams can't stop Amare from dunking on them.

And Amare doesn't have a number of moves? He has about every move that Shaq uses. It is not like he gets the ball and dunks it without making a move.


----------



## s a b a s 11

> It can't be great not knowing if your center will give you 25 points and 10 boards or 5 points and 2 boards on a given night


Yeah it cant be great playing with Yao Ming, what a detriment. A skilled center that will pass the ball with precision and play within the game. What a loser player.

Any fan of the Rockets knows that part of his "inconsistency" was not all his fault, maybe some games where he wasn't hitting his shot, but the majority of the time, the guards did not include him within the offense.

Wait a second, first of all they are both rookies and Yao was as a little less consistent than Amare was. Its not like Yao got 25 and 12 and then got "2 and 5" every two games. He had a great couple of stretchs where he was consistently averaging 16 and 9. And blaming his inconsistency on him solely shows you probably were addressing his box scores the next morning. 

Stuart


----------



## s a b a s 11

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> And Amare doesn't have a number of moves? He has about every move that Shaq uses. It is not like he gets the ball and dunks it without making a move.


Hey I am for Amare winning the ROY, but you must be kidding to think he is as developed skill-wise as Shaq, if you are talking when Shaq was a rookie in the league, then maybe i'll concur. Amare is "rawer" than even Shaq when he first came into the NBA.

Shaq has several moves now, so much so that I respect his game about one hundred times more than when he came into the league. Give Stoudemire time and he'll develop more, but to say he has as many moves as Shaq now is just flat-out wrong.

Stuart


----------



## sylaw

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Unfortunately supernerd '' the franchise'' forgets that Yao sucked in the last month as well.
> 
> 11.8ppg 39.7%FG 1.63bpg 0.75spg 2.3apg 8.6rpg
> 
> Amare
> 
> 14.1ppg 50%FG 1.67bpg1.56spg 1.1apg 7rpg


You're right, Amare deserves the ROY because he had the best last month. I guess we should rename the award "Rookie of Last Month" in stead of "Rookie of the YEAR."  Besides the points and fg %, Yao pretty much was similar to Stoudemire's stats. Even thought you didn't mention it, I'm sure he shot a better ft% as well.

Yao had better stats in the season. There is no denying it. Anyone can be made to look like the better player if we only count a portion of the season.


----------



## s a b a s 11

> Originally posted by <b>sylaw</b>!
> 
> 
> You're right, Amare deserves the ROY because he had the best last month. I guess we should rename the award "Rookie of Last Month" in stead of "Rookie of the YEAR."  Besides the points and fg %, Yao pretty much was similar to Stoudemire's stats. Even thought you didn't mention it, I'm sure he shot a better ft% as well.
> 
> Yao had better stats in the season. There is no denying it. Anyone can be made to look like the better player if we only count a portion of the season.


Stop with the logic Sy, you'll confuse people.

Stuart


----------



## Jamel Irief

> Originally posted by <b>s a b a s 11</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah it cant be great playing with Yao Ming, what a detriment. A skilled center that will pass the ball with precision and play within the game. What a loser player.
> 
> Any fan of the Rockets knows that part of his "inconsistency" was not all his fault, maybe some games where he wasn't hitting his shot, but the majority of the time, the guards did not include him within the offense.
> 
> Wait a second, first of all they are both rookies and Yao was as a little less consistent than Amare was. Its not like Yao got 25 and 12 and then got "2 and 5" every two games. He had a great couple of stretchs where he was consistently averaging 16 and 9. And blaming his inconsistency on him solely shows you probably were addressing his box scores the next morning.
> 
> Stuart


You got me all wrong. Voters don't (or they shouldn't) factor in how his teamates are including/excluding him in the offense. They should just factor actual production. For whatever the reasons, he was terribly inconsistent. You can admit that, even if you want to blame it on the guards. I think it's true, their best post-player last year, Kenny Thomas, was inconsistent as well.

What's with the vitriol? I like Yao.


----------



## sylaw

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> Sorry Amare deserved it more and it has nothing to do with the playoffs in my eyes. Yao is probably the most inconsistant player in the NBA. It can't be great not knowing if your center will give you 25 points and 10 boards or 5 points and 2 boards on a given night.


Yao may not be the most consistent guy but he rarely, if ever, puts up just 5 points and 2 boards. Let's not exaggerate here.



> Originally posted by <b>s a b a s 11</b>!
> Stop with the logic Sy, you'll confuse people.


My bad. I didn't mean to confuse people with logic.


----------



## RangerC

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> Sorry Amare deserved it more and it has nothing to do with the playoffs in my eyes. Yao is probably the most inconsistant player in the NBA. It can't be great not knowing if your center will give you 25 points and 10 boards or 5 points and 2 boards on a given night.


Sorry, Stoudamire is just as inconsistant as Ming. Since both players were starters, Amare has had 16 games where he scored under double digits. Ming has had 15. How can you say Ming is more inconsistant when Amare had 6 games of 5 points or less as a starter (Ming, just 3 of 5 or less)? I still haven't seen a legitimate argument for Stoudamire.


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> You got me all wrong. Voters don't (or they shouldn't) factor in how his teamates are including/excluding him in the offense. They should just factor actual production. For whatever the reasons, he was terribly inconsistent. You can admit that, even if you want to blame it on the guards. I think it's true, their best post-player last year, Kenny Thomas, was inconsistent as well.
> 
> What's with the vitriol? I like Yao.


OK OK , lets clear this up once and for all:
Inconsistency of Yao due to:

When suffocated by double teams, he kicks the ball out and rockets dont hit their open j's.

Has played basketball for a very very very long stretch of time.

Needs to physically bulk up, is abused in the post sometimes. Look at the scratches and bruises on his limbs after every game.

Too many ads. Let him concentrate on basketball a little more ya'll. Too much media. Let him walk outside his house and too the grocery store ya'll. He really likes that.

There really isn't a legitimate argument for Stoudemire winning ROY OVER Yao Ming. Just give me 1 reason. Having Marbury is not a reason. Winning 1 more game than the Rockets is not a reason. What else does Amare have on Yao?


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## Tom

Amare will be in the HALL one day! Believe that!!!


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## HAWK23

easy there Tom... don't say things you can't take back!


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## Tom

i posted it at the beginning of the year as well and i believe it..i love this kid...He has IT.:yes: :yes: :mrt: who gets in his way to greatness.


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## Hollis

Can we please stop the bickering? I mean COME ON.....both had very good years, and you can't go wrong with either one. Of course, I'd rather have the 7'5 guy that can shoot, rebound, block, and pass, but hey, some people would take a superdunker too....


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## Tom

i actually think Caron deserved it...he gets no love.


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## The_Franchise

True, don't matter whose ROY. Just wondering what Amare has over Yao... some questions have no answers.


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## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> i actually think Caron deserved it...he gets no love.


:dead:


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## Tom

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> :dead:


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