# What Does Ben Need to do to start?



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

What does he need to do?

Score 100 points in 10 games in a row.

Wear short shorts?

Break Skiles' assist record?

This is getting ridiculous. If he starts the game, he can play 40 minutes a night. By sitting out the first 10 minutes of each half like he currently does, he is limited to around 30 minutes a night (at best). The guy needs to start, and get heavy minutes, he's young, he's well conditioned, and he's good.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Get traded?


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Umm, getting you off his jock might do wonders for his game. Just a hunch.

Realistically though, he is probably more effective this way because he's completely fresh and has 10 less minutes' playing time at the end of the game when he is needed to come on strong.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Umm, getting you off his jock might do wonders for his game. Just a hunch.
> 
> Realistically though, he is probably more effective this way because he's completely fresh and has 10 less minutes' playing time at the end of the game when he is needed to come on strong.


He is averaging 19.4 points a game, and thats with the slow start. He could do 25 if he got 10 more minutes a game. Would I rather have Ben with 10 less minutes so he can help try to close the 25 point lead from the Hinrich and Duhon experience, or would I rather have him for 10 more minutes, and have him just closing the game out at the end.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

Id like to see him at least start the 3rd quarter. Especially when we are down alot and struggling to score. What good does it do you to keep your best scorer on the bench for the start of the second half when your struggling to score.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

I don't even mind the not starting thing too much cause he usually chomps down some lead and brings us momentum going into the half. 

The most ridiculous thing is being out for the majority of 3rd quarters where the other team either cuts their deficit or expands their lead. Either way the starting lineup gets exposed...wrong choice of words cause obviously our coach never seems to notice...our starting lineup shows its true colors and gets MANHANDLED every 3rd quarter till he is in.

What's equally ridiculous is that he hardly ever plays more than 30 minutes. In an effort he was in large part responsible for, he played a little less than 28 minutes tonight.

I'm really attempting to understand why Skiles does this. 

Here's what I've come up with so far:

-He earns a $50,000 bonus for every Ben Gordon comeback where were down by 10 points or more, another $50,000 for 20 +point or more comebacks. 

-He's really trying to make Ben Gordon prove that he is indeed, the MASTER. GONG! So Ben has to go through all these tests...tests of mental will that only a select few can survive...it's a work in progress. But when the sun shines tomorrow, so will the Master little Ben.

-A combination of both?


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Skiles should have sub Gordon in when the third quarter got to the ten minute mark.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Skiles: You can start once you can snatch this pebble from my hand.

Gordon: (snatches pebble from hand)

Skiles: Two out of three!

Gordon: (snatches pebble from hand)

Skiles: Three out of five!

(repeat ad nauseum)


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> He is averaging 19.4 points a game, and thats with the slow start. He could do 25 if he got 10 more minutes a game. Would I rather have Ben with 10 less minutes so he can help try to close the 25 point lead from the Hinrich and Duhon experience, or would I rather have him for 10 more minutes, and have him just closing the game out at the end.


BTW, I should let it known that I am 100% in favor of Ben starting. I think him coming off the bench and Du-chump-hon starting is absolutely asinine. What I posted before is the ONLY good thing I can see about him doing that...it keeps him fresh later in the season, and fresh for later in the games. It's still not right, and not what's best for the team, unless Skiles really does think that he plays better off the bench. I think it's just coincidence myself.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

It seems to me that Skiles tries to start him. He did last year and this year from what I recall. Don't get me wrong, I am still in favor of starting Gordon over Duhon, but Gordon has blown his opportunities due to slow starts the last two seasons. Now that he is playing well, I'm in favor of getting him back into the starting lineup, but I understand the hesitation. Gordon has certainly squandered his opportunities due to his early season woes. Hopefully it's a habit he can break out of.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Something like this might help.

But probably just play more consistently. We don't have anyone else that can score off the bench either.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> Something like this might help.
> 
> But probably just play more consistently. We don't have anyone else that can score off the bench either.


Images from tripod.com don't show up for other people viewing the thread....


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I actually wouldn't mind having Duhon start the first half, and Gordon start the 2nd half. I think the concept of Duhon setting up the offense and starting the game off with defense is a good one. But, as it is, the Bulls can really struggle on the road or against good defenses, and having Gordon sit the first 6 minutes of each half isn't optimal.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Hope Thabo can outplay Kirk. Thabo won't start to next year however.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Get on his knees......




and pray?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Images from tripod.com don't show up for other people viewing the thread....


doh


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Last 10 games

min 29.7
fg% .450
3p% .391
ft% .930
reb 2.7
*** 2.2
steals 1.0
points 22.8


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

It's plain and simple....he's so stupid for leaving Detroit. Yenno how many guys would kill to start with Billups, Hamilton, Prince and Rasheed Wallace? Like man.. Ben Gordon and Kirk Hinrich aren't worth the trade and he's startin to realize he made a really dumb decision.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> It's plain and simple....he's so stupid for leaving Detroit. Yenno how many guys would kill to start with Billups, Hamilton, Prince and Rasheed Wallace? Like man.. Ben Gordon and Kirk Hinrich aren't worth the trade and he's startin to realize he made a really dumb decision.


Wrong Ben, were talking about the good Ben.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lsbits,1,5204102.story?coll=cs-home-headlines


MINNEAPOLIS -- Ben Gordon could be joining some exclusive company this season if he continues a remarkable season coming off the bench. Going into Tuesday's game against the Timberwolves, Gordon was the Bulls' leading scorer at 19.1 points per game.

Only one Sixth Man award winner, the Bucks' Ricky Pierce in 1989-90, led his team in scoring. Only Pierce and the Suns' Eddie Johnson in 1988-89 averaged more than 20 points.



"I know it's possible, especially the way I play off the bench," Gordon said of the possibility he could join Pierce. "I've never given it much thought. I know I came close my rookie year."

That's when Gordon averaged 15.1 to team leader Eddy Curry's 16.1 in winning the Sixth Man honor in 2004-05.

"There aren't many guys who can sit over there and come out firing and get hot," coach Scott Skiles said. "It's a gift. Whatever it is, he has it. … He has proven he's one of those rare guys who can play that role as well as anyone in the league."


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I think Noc needs to come off the bench for Gordon to start. To me, it's obvious that Skiles likes to have a weapon with some offensive punch off of the bench. Right now, we don't really have a good option to replace Nocioni in the starting lineup with.

We could do something along the lines of:
Hinrich
Gordon
Deng
Sweetney
Wallace

...but I think the fear is that we will get into early foul trouble with Sweets and Hinrich's foul tendancies.

We could also do:
Hinrich
Gordon
Deng
Allen
Wallace

That might be the best scenerio, although Allen isn't any better at rebounding or banging in the post than is Noc. Unless Sweets or Allen increase their play and Noc starts to go through a bit of a slump, I don't see Gordon being re-inserted in the starting lineup anytime soon.

I also agree that he should start third quarters when trailing or he has his shot going in the first half with minutes at the expense of Duhon (not Hinrich).


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)




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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

VincentVega said:


>


Looks like that belongs in the Kirk has a tummy ache thread.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Minnesota Timberwolves' Randy Foye, center, shots over Chicago Bulls' Andres Nocioni (5) of Argentina, to score the winning basket as Chicago's Kirk Hinrich, right watches the play during the fourth quarter in a basketball game, Tuesday, Dec. 26, 2006, in Minneapolis.

Anyone seen Hinrich's man?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

What's interesting is that Gordon went 1-5 from the field with 0 assists and 1 turnover in the fourth quarter last night.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Rhyder said:


> I think Noc needs to come off the bench for Gordon to start. To me, it's obvious that Skiles likes to have a weapon with some offensive punch off of the bench. Right now, we don't really have a good option to replace Nocioni in the starting lineup with.
> 
> We could do something along the lines of:
> Hinrich
> ...


I think you're exactly right. I think Sweetney might slow down our pace of play though, so I don't think he's a good option.

Allen's not exactly Hakim Warrick, but he's slightly better. I'd actually like to see him get a shot. In terms of skills to complement Big Ben, he's probably the most effective player we have right now. Kind of a poor-man's young PJ Brown.

Putting him in the lineup would give us a guy who can make the ever popular elbow jumper, and even better, put a longish body on the opposing team's big man (which, as I noted in another thread recently) has been a bit of an issue for us.

Obviously he can't score or defend like Noc can, but it might help to get Ben in the lineup.

Of course, then we'll just start having threads about Noc starting, because - exactly the opposite from Ben - Noc actually seems less confident coming off the bench.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

MikeDC said:


> I think you're exactly right. I think Sweetney might slow down our pace of play though, so I don't think he's a good option.
> 
> Allen's not exactly Hakim Warrick, but he's slightly better. I'd actually like to see him get a shot. In terms of skills to complement Big Ben, he's probably the most effective player we have right now. Kind of a poor-man's young PJ Brown.
> 
> ...


I don't think you have to worry about Sweetney slowing down our pace of play. Kirk Hinrich and Chris Duhon are rather ineffective run the fastbreak, Deng is decent finishers, and Wallace can't get down there that fast.

Gordon, Thabo, and Tyrus are the fastbreak squad.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

VincentVega said:


> What's interesting is that Gordon went 1-5 from the field with 0 assists and 1 turnover in the fourth quarter last night.


LOL

Gordon had 4 points in the final 1:22, including the game tying layup in the clutch.

In the final 2 minutes, Kirk's man scored 6 points, including the game winner.

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:00</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">92-96</td><td valign="top">*Randy Foye makes 15-foot jumper (Marko Jaric assists)*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:47</td><td valign="top">Ben Gordon misses running jumper</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">92-96</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:46</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">92-96</td><td valign="top">Marko Jaric defensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:30</td><td valign="top">Andres Nocioni shooting foul (Randy Foye draws the foul)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">92-96</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:30</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">92-97</td><td valign="top">*Randy Foye makes free throw 1 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:30</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">92-98</td><td valign="top">*Randy Foye makes free throw 2 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:22</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">92-98</td><td valign="top">Kevin Garnett shooting foul (Ben Gordon draws the foul)</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:22</td><td valign="top">*Ben Gordon makes free throw 1 of 2*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">93-98</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:22</td><td valign="top">*Ben Gordon makes free throw 2 of 2*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">94-98</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:59</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">94-98</td><td valign="top">Kevin Garnett misses 5-foot jumper</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:58</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">94-98</td><td valign="top">Trenton Hassell offensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:54</td><td valign="top">Jumpball: Andres Nocioni vs. Marko Jaric (Thabo Sefolosha gains possession)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">94-98</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:54</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">94-98</td><td valign="top">Marko Jaric lost ball (Andres Nocioni steals)</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:44</td><td valign="top">*Kirk Hinrich makes driving layup*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">96-98</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:23</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">96-98</td><td valign="top">Randy Foye misses 15-foot jumper</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:21</td><td valign="top">Thabo Sefolosha defensive rebound</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">96-98</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:15</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*Chicago full timeout*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td valign="top">*Ben Gordon makes driving layup*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">98-98</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*Minnesota full timeout*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td valign="top">Chris Duhon enters the game for Ben Gordon</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">98-98</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*Minnesota 20 Sec. timeout*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">98-100</td><td valign="top">*Randy Foye makes 7-foot two point shot*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*Chicago 20 Sec. timeout*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">98-100</td><td valign="top">Justin Reed enters the game for Mike James</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td valign="top">Ben Gordon enters the game for Thabo Sefolosha</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">98-100</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*Chicago 20 Sec. timeout*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:00</td><td valign="top">Andres Nocioni misses 6-foot jumper</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">98-100</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:00</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">98-100</td><td valign="top">Justin Reed defensive rebound</td></tr></tbody></table>


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Why is everyone so sure that Gordon's improved play is not because he comes of the bench and can be placed in advantagous matchups and situations?


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> Why is everyone so sure that Gordon's improved play is not because he comes of the bench and can be placed in advantagous matchups and situations?


Cause he does it when it matters the most.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Cause he does it when it matters the most.


And maybe that is an advantagous situation for him. He obviously has problems with concentration at times. Maybe he needs the pressure situations and the uncertain status of being a non-starter in order to motivate him?


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> And maybe that is an advantagous situation for him. He obviously has problems with concentration at times. Maybe he needs the pressure situations and the uncertain status of being a non-starter in order to motivate him?


What exactly makes it an advantageous situation for him? That you think he's playing against a bunch of Jannero Pargos and Chris Duhons or starters who are as tired as boxers in a 15th round bloodfest?


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> What exactly makes it an advantageous situation for him? That you think he's playing against a bunch of Jannero Pargos and Chris Duhons or starters who are as tired as boxers in a 15th round bloodfest?


...



TropleDouble said:


> Maybe he needs the pressure situations and the uncertain status of being a non-starter in order to motivate him?


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> ...


It's a strength not an advantageous situation.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> It's a strength not an advantageous situation.


In your opinion


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## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> Break Skiles' assist record?


He'd proabably never play again, or get traded, or develop a heart condition. Okay, let's stop the kidding around, we know he would bench him before he even started sniffing the record


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> And maybe that is an advantagous situation for him. He obviously has problems with concentration at times. Maybe he needs the pressure situations and the uncertain status of being a non-starter in order to motivate him?


At the start of his second season, when he started and struggled, he said you can't just go out there and score as a started you got to get your team mates involved.

This is just a guess, but I think he plays alot better when his in his "take over the game" state of mind. Of the bench he just comes out with that mentality.

Just tell him we need him to score 40 to win and hope he explodes from the get go.

I'd be showing him tapes of M.J's first quarter explosions.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Wow, like isn't this thread recycled, man. It's like that deja vu s***, y'know.

I dunno man, it seems like the last time, it was because Gordon happens to excel in this role and it helps the team. Who knows, maybe that's it this time too.

Or maybe it's like purely personal, y'know. Like Skiles just doesn't like Gordon. Or better yet, maybe Skiles is into the mob for like big money and has to keep games close or even sometimes lose. Yeah, that could be it.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Thabo will start long term. Skiles is just unwilling to toss him in the deep end, as he mentioned in an article before the miama game, he wants to put the rookies in situations they can success in and not just hang them out to dry.

Thabo should be starting along side Kirk next year with Gordon off the bench.

Inbetween then and now we'll keep starting Duhon for the most part.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

darlets said:


> Thabo will start long term. Skiles is just unwilling to toss him in the deep end, as he mentioned in an article before the miama game, he wants to put the rookies in situations they can success in and not just hang them out to dry.
> 
> Thabo should be starting along side Kirk next year with Gordon off the bench.
> 
> Inbetween then and now we'll keep starting Duhon for the most part.


How about Thabo and Gordon...isn't the point of Thabo so Ben can have that big guard next to him (Ben is easily the best player on the team).


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

transplant said:


> Wow, like isn't this thread recycled, man. It's like that deja vu s***, y'know.
> 
> I dunno man, it seems like the last time, it was because Gordon happens to excel in this role and it helps the team. Who knows, maybe that's it this time too.
> 
> Or maybe it's like purely personal, y'know. Like Skiles just doesn't like Gordon. Or better yet, maybe Skiles is into the mob for like big money and has to keep games close or even sometimes lose. Yeah, that could be it.


Or he's up for a new contract after the season and the more minutes he gets, the more $$$ he'll command.

Gordon started most of last season, especially during the big stretch of wins that got us into the playoffs.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> How about Thabo and Gordon...isn't the point of Thabo so Ben can have that big guard next to him (Ben is easily the best player on the team).


I'm easy. I'm just saying this year, is very much a transistion year.

Dengs going to benefit from another year of weights and TT will benefit alot from his first year of pro weights.

We need TT, Deng and Thabo on the court, that's three guys with 7feet+ wing span taking up alot of room.

Thabo and TT rebounding numbers are excellent too.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

transplant said:


> Wow, like isn't this thread recycled, man. It's like that deja vu s***, y'know.
> 
> I dunno man, it seems like the last time, it was because Gordon happens to excel in this role and it helps the team. Who knows, maybe that's it this time too.
> 
> Or maybe it's like purely personal, y'know. Like Skiles just doesn't like Gordon. Or better yet, maybe Skiles is into the mob for like big money and has to keep games close or even sometimes lose. Yeah, that could be it.



I don't think Skiles personally dislikes Gordon, but I do think he needs to let him play through mistakes more than he does. Gordon is a dynamic offensive player who, like pretty much every other small scoring guard in the NBA, gambles and loses sometimes. He's scored a point a minute over the last three games, and looks way more comfortable playing point guard. I think the reins needs to be loosened a little.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

It's time for the man to start. With Kirk struggling lately and Duhon being...well, just Duhon, one of them (we know who it would be) can take a seat for Mr. Gordon.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

ViciousFlogging said:


> It's time for the man to start. With Kirk struggling lately and Duhon being...well, just Duhon, one of them (we know who it would be) can take a seat for Mr. Gordon.



Agreed. He's done enough (and then some) to merit another shot at the starting job.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

Is starting really that important? I think minutes are the big deal here.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Score 40? nah.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Soulful Sides said:


> Is starting really that important? I think minutes are the big deal here.


And his minutes are automatically limited by not starting.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

Is starting just a trophy for him, or will it make a difference in how well the team performs?

I think that defense is a bigger issue here.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)




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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Soulful Sides said:


> Is starting just a trophy for him, or will it make a difference in how well the team performs?
> 
> I think that defense is a bigger issue here.


Bulls are the same defensively (in points given up), exactly the same (going into tonights game) with him on the bench than with him out....so I don't think it has much effect on defense at all.

Like look tonight, only 31 minutes, for how on he was, if he was starting, he could have been getting 40-48 minutes tonight, and easily gotten 50.

We've seen enough that our defense suffers (A Kirk/Duhon backcourt if ineffective defensively), and offensively (A Kirk/Duhon backcourt is also ineffective offensively). This is more so do to Hinrich though...(do to the stats, we are better both defensively and offensively with Hinrich on the bench)....but Gordon/Duhon isn't a good pairing, so it'd have to be Gordon/Thabo or Gordon/Hinrich to start in the backcourt.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Also, Hollis Price will be a perennial NBA All-Star.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

VincentVega said:


>


So what were Gordon's numbers in the fourth today? :biggrin:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

garnett said:


> So what were Gordon's numbers in the fourth today? :biggrin:


Aw, he has reason to cry.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

He's no good as a starter.

<table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="90%"> *Gordon's 40-point outburst carries Bulls past Heat* 
<!-- / icon and title --> </td> <td align="right" width="10%"> <!-- Show warned sign --> <!-- End of show warned sign --> </td> </tr></tbody></table> <hr style="" size="1"> <!-- message --> 
CHICAGO (Ticker) -- Ben Gordon took full advantage of the 
shorthanded Miami Heat.

Gordon scored a season-high 40 points and Andres Nocioni added
16 off the bench as the Chicago Bulls posted a 109-103 triumph
over the Heat, who lost All-Star Dwyane Wade to injury.

* In his first start since November 11, Gordon made 11-of-17 shots
from the floor and sank 17-of-19 free throws. He also recorded
five assists and three rebounds.*

Wade left the game with six minutes remaining in the first
quarter with a sprained right wrist. X-rays were negative, but
he did not return and is listed as day-to-day.

Jason Williams' 16-footer with 1:25 remaining helped the Heat
take a 100-99 advantage. However, Gordon netted eight of the
Bulls' final 10 points, including a three-point play on the
ensuing possession.

Rookie Tyrus Thomas scored 10 points and Ben Wallace chipped in
nine and 11 rebounds for Chicago, which shot 48 percent
(39-of-81) and won its fifth straight home game.

Williams scored a season-high 28 points and Jason Kapono added
18 for the Heat, who shot 45 percent (39-of-85).

Miami is already without superstar center Shaquille O'Neal, who
still is sidelined with torn cartilage in his knee.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

This board is so emotional.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

if he broke skiles assist record, skiles seems like the kind of guy who would say **** you and play him less...


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

VincentVega said:


> Also, Hollis Price will be a perennial NBA All-Star.


What about Scotty Thurman? Remember that guy? He's playing in Jordan nowadays.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> He's no good as a starter.
> 
> <table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="90%"> *Gordon's 40-point outburst carries Bulls past Heat*
> <!-- / icon and title --> </td> <td align="right" width="10%"> <!-- Show warned sign --> <!-- End of show warned sign --> </td> </tr></tbody></table> <hr style="" size="1"> <!-- message -->
> ...


Only problem is Ben Gordon didn't start last night. It was the same lineup as usual; the box score mistakenly put Gordon, Sefolosha, Thomas, and PJ in the starting lineup.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> He's no good as a starter.
> 
> <table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="90%"> *Gordon's 40-point outburst carries Bulls past Heat*
> <!-- / icon and title --> </td> <td align="right" width="10%"> <!-- Show warned sign --> <!-- End of show warned sign --> </td> </tr></tbody></table> <hr style="" size="1"> <!-- message -->
> ...


DaBullz, didn't you watch the game? He didn't come in until the 4:00 mark in the first quarter.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Geez, I'm sorta making fun of the sportsticker recap.

It also said Nocioni came off the bench.

AP wasn't much better. They said Gordon's 40 was the first time a bulls player scored 40 since Elton Brand did it.

I'm pretty sure Rose did it more than once, and I seem to remember Crawford did it more than once and even had a 50 point game.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Do not taunt SportsTicker!!!

_This message brought to you by the makers of:_


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

For the record, I think Ben should start. I re-watched the game from last night. So fun to watch him duck and weave around the defense.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

VincentVega said:


> For the record, I think Ben should start. I re-watched the game from last night. So fun to watch him duck and weave around the defense.


I don't know if he should start. But he definitely should be getting 34-35 minutes a game.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

They did get it right in the end.

<table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="90%"> *Gordon's 40-point outburst carries Bulls past Heat* 
<!-- / icon and title --> </td> <td align="right" width="10%"> <!-- Show warned sign --> <!-- End of show warned sign --> </td> </tr></tbody></table> <hr style="" size="1"> <!-- message --> 
CHICAGO (Ticker) -- Reserve Ben Gordon took full advantage of 
the shorthanded Miami Heat.

Gordon scored a career-high 40 points and Andres Nocioni added
16 as the Chicago Bulls posted a 109-103 triumph over the Heat,
who lost All-Star Dwyane Wade to injury.

Gordon, who has been coming off the bench since November 14,
made 11-of-17 shots from the floor and sank 17-of-19 free
throws. He surpassed his previous high of 39 points set at
Phoenix on February 4.

"I just tried to be aggressive," Gordon said. "I got to the
line a lot and we needed every point because it was a tight
game."

"Ben generally does a nice job of sensing when he is needed in
big games," Chicago coach Scoot Skiles said. "He is not afraid
out there and he saved the game for us."

Gordon became the first Bull to score 40 points since the
1999-2000 campaign.

Wade left the game with six minutes remaining in the first
quarter with a sprained right wrist. X-rays were negative, but
he did not return and is listed as day-to-day. The Chicago
native will have an MRI on Thursday.

"He will get a MRI," Miami coach Pat Riley said. "We will
compare some X-rays Dwyane has had in the past with the ones
that were taken."

The Heat trailed by as many as 20 points before rallying an
87-85 advantage on Jason Williams' 3-pointer with just under
eight minutes to go.

Williams' 16-footer with 1:25 remaining helped the Heat take a
100-99 advantage. However, Gordon netted eight of the Bulls'
final 10 points, including a three-point play on the ensuing
possession.

Rookie Tyrus Thomas scored 10 points and Ben Wallace chipped in
nine and 11 rebounds for Chicago, which shot 48 percent
(39-of-81) and won its fifth straight home game.

Williams scored a season-high 28 points and Jason Kapono added
18 for the Heat, who shot 45 percent (39-of-85).

Miami is already without superstar center Shaquille O'Neal, who
still is sidelined with torn cartilage in his knee.

In the fourth quarter, Heat forward James Posey was ejected with
7:16 left for a flagrant foul on Luol Deng. Posey was
suspended for one game after running into Kirk Hinrich in the
opening round of the playoffs last season.

"It was what it was, it should have been that call," Riley said.
"There was no intent except to block the shot. I know he
(Posey) went after the ball. As long as you go after the ball
you are Ok; he didn't go after his head."

"I don't know, I don't want to say anything bad," said Deng, who
had eight points and 11 rebounds. "I don't know what Posey was
doing, if he was making a play. I have to watch the replay and
see what he was doing."


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

" Gordon became the first Bull to score 40 points since the
1999-2000 campaign."

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jamal_crawford/bio.html

*2003-04 (Bulls):* Authored breakout season in fourth and final year in Chicago, leading Bulls in scoring (17.3 ppg). . . Appeared in career-high tying 80 games (73 starts) with 17.3 ppg and career-high 5.1 apg over 35.1 mpg. . .Went 165-521 (.317) from Downtown and set Bulls single-season record with 165 home runs, smashing Scottie Pippen’s old mark of 156 in 1996-97. . .Fifth in NBA with 165 3PT FGM and had four, six-homer games. . .Had 28 20+ scoring games (Bulls 14-14), eight 30+ games and *two 40+ games (including career-high 50 points on April 11, 2004 at Toronto).* .

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jalen_rose/bio.html

*2001-02 SEASON:* Started an NBA-high 83 games, averaging 20.4 ppg (19th in the NBA), 4.5 rpg and 4.3 apg, shooting .455 from the floor, .362 from three-point range and .839 from the free throw line. … Set career highs in minutes played (3,153 – 38.0 mpg), field goals (663), field goal attempts (1,458), three-point field goals (89), three-point field goal attempts (246), three-point field goal percentage (.362), free throw percentage (.839) and points scored (1,696). … *Scored 30+ points on 13 occasions (eight with the Bulls) and 40+ points in two games (one with Chicago).*


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I don't know if he should start. But he definitely should be getting 34-35 minutes a game.


Agreed. I think he has a different mind-set when he starts. He's said he tries to get the other guys involved, pace himself more etc. I think when he comes off the bench he's more in an attack mode. If Duhon starts but plays 18-20 minutes, and Gordon comes off the bench but plays 30-35 minutes, I'd be fine with that. 

We also need more Gordon/Thabo combinations. They play great together, and Skiles has said it's been like that since training camp.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> We also need more Gordon/Thabo combinations. They play great together, and Skiles has said it's been like that since training camp.


though i'm fairly certain skiles isn't going to let this happen anytime soon, i'd like to see gordon and thabo starting at some point in the imminent future. thabo's offense is better than originally advertised, and the flatness on his shot doesn't appear to be as bad as it originally appeared. defnensively, he makes things happen and is good to very good against 3's and 2's. he's reminding me of dennis johnson somewhat, for the old schoolers in the house. seattle won a championship back in 79 with johnson at the 2, and a small scoring pg, gus williams.

kirk would/could be a force off the bench, particularly because of his ability to play both positions, and be a shooter/scorer off the bench, flipping roles with ben. duhon could then fill in for spot minutes solely at the point in combos (and matchup with quicker pg's) with all 3, which is the role he should be best in.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Ben & Thabo > Kirk & Duhon


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Bump. 

We finally have our answer.

Skiles: Gordon's roll keeps him in reserve role




> "I told Ben, if this was a situation where Kirk had done something more severe and he was going to be out 15-20 games, I'd start Ben. But he's so valuable and so important in the role he's in, I really don't want to risk disrupting the team."


I agree with the coach. Continue bringing Gordon off the bench, just give him starter quality minutes.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Thats positive....sounds like there is some communication between Skiles and Gordon!


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## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

it still seems very odd that Gordon isn't a starter! lol It's like Skiles is purposely keeping Gordon in the 6th man role so that he can win the 6th man award again and keep the bench pts up for the season.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

ITs a situation that is going to have to be rectified eventually. I don't see Ben committing multi-years with us, when he will almost certainly start elsewhere. We either need to deal him by the deadline, or commit to starting him next season.

Else we run the risk of losing him for nothing.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

I really don't see the big deal with Gordon coming off the bench he play's starter minutes and he's in the game when the 4th qtr starts and stays in until the end of the game. Ben don't mind coming off the bench he know's he's valuable to the team and going to play every night. He's still developing his all around game and defense, he's young and he's got his whole career ahead of him to start.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

bre9 said:


> I really don't see the big deal with Gordon coming off the bench he play's starter minutes and he's in the game when the 4th qtr starts and stays in until the end of the game. Ben don't mind coming off the bench he know's he's valuable to the team and going to play every night. He's still developing his all around game and defense, he's young and he's got his whole career ahead of him to start.


He's not getting starter's minutes. He's averaging less than 30 minutes a game, just 3 more than Duhon. And 5 less than Hinrich.

IF he came in after 4 minutes in the 1st Q and played the rest of the half, and same thing for 3rd Q, he'd be getting starter's minutes.

The reason I think he should start is so he can get 48 minutes (46, 44, 42, 40, whatever) in a game if needed. And yeah, that happens a lot with 'starters'


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I love Thabo as much as the next guy, but why do some people want him to start right now? He lasted three minutes before getting pulled after starting last night. It wasn't pretty.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

VincentVega said:


> I love Thabo as much as the next guy, but why do some people want him to start right now? He lasted three minutes before getting pulled after starting last night. It wasn't pretty.


I think Thabo should start next year at the earliest.

The set up at the moment is an issue because of our short front court and short back court.

This is a development year as much as the last year.

Hopefully next year we can get a 20 minute a game (At least ) centre so we can have wallace play some at pf.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Skiles need to bring Gordon in a little earlier during the first and third quarter like around the seven minute mark instead of the four-fifty mark.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

bre9 said:


> Skiles need to bring Gordon in a little earlier during the first and third quarter like around the seven minute mark instead of the four-fifty mark.


This is true. We're obviously not winning any games with the current strategy.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

VincentVega said:


> This is true. We're obviously not winning any games with the current strategy.


Skiles only bring Ben in early if the other team makes a run on us. Then Gordon come in and give us a lift and put us back on track it has happened often. So Skiles should try to stop it before it happens. I'm not saying every game but some games this has happen.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I think Skiles should just continue to do whatever we do when we score more points than the other team. And when we aren't scoring more points than the other team, Skiles needs to adjust so we do score more points than the other team. Then we can relax.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

VincentVega said:


> I think Skiles should just continue to do whatever we do when we score more points than the other team. And when we aren't scoring more points than the other team, Skiles needs to adjust so we do score more points than the other team. Then we can relax.


Agree


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Maybe a better question...

What does he need to do to get the start for 2nd halves of games? Seems to me it'd be a huge step in the right direction.


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## WestHighHawk (Jun 28, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> Maybe a better question...
> 
> What does he need to do to get the start for 2nd halves of games? Seems to me it'd be a huge step in the right direction.


DaBulls, I agree with you. What's wrong with him starting the 2nd half? He's already got a feel for the game by then.

I also have to agree with what Kendall Gill said post-game. Lets' keep BG coming in and not starting the game...don't want to jinx him!


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## H.O.V.A. (Jul 13, 2005)

He should look into finding an attorney who can help him change his full-name to:

1. Kirk Hinrich
2. Chris Duhon
3. Thabo Sefolosha


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Maybe a better question...
> 
> What does he need to do to get the start for 2nd halves of games? Seems to me it'd be a huge step in the right direction.


Great suggestion.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

At the moment, I'm inclined to take the 'if it isn't broke, then don't fix it' approach with Ben Gordon in his current role, although I can empathize with those who think he's earned a shot to be a starter again. 

Regardless of whether or not he's starting the games, his role in the offense and team hierarchy seems to be continually growing, so I think a lot of the inferences that people make between him not starting and how his talents are being utilized are fairly superficial.

However, I like the idea that he could start the 2nd half of games. I think it's a good way to get him more minutes without disrupting the groove he seems to be in right now.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

I think he should be starting or at least till kirk comes back to kind of test the thoery if he really plays better off the bench or starting.Still i think that his D is the main reason why he doesn't start,i dont think skiles like's the def energy he bring's at the beginning of game's.Plus noc and deng where playing well early on together,now noc is starting to slump a bit and isn't making the shot's he was making early on.So with that being the case i rather go a bit bigger in my starting 5 maybe starting allen,with ben and bring noc back off the bench.But i think the line up you see today is the line up you will se throughout the season.


Because Skiles is a stubborn EDIT and won't admit he was wrong or is wrong for starting noc,no matter how many string of bad game's he has.But yes ben should be starting.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Didn't know where to put this, and I have been kind of out of it due to the Holiday season, but Props to Benny. I was anti-Gordon for a bit, due to his inconsistancies at the start of the season. Granted, he is consistant in doing that, which is not good. But I want to keep him if he continues doing this. PRIMARILY, due to him starting to attack the FT line (at least by looking at the Box score). I hope he is attacking the rim a lot more. Him and Deng are becoming more consistant, and I hope Noce gets back to where he was.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

theanimal23 said:


> I hope he is attacking the rim a lot more.


He sure was last night.

He was blowing by his defender at will. He also is developing the skill of being able to hang in the air and either get a decent shot off or draw the foul.

I'll be a happy camper if the days of the "GIANT KILLER" are over, from Gordon at least.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> He sure was last night.
> 
> He was blowing by his defender at will. He also is developing the skill of being able to hang in the air and either get a decent shot off or draw the foul.
> 
> I'll be a happy camper if the days of the "GIANT KILLER" are over, from Gordon at least.


There was one sequence yesterday in the 4th where he shot and missed a 3, Wallace rebounded, and then he went in and drew a foul. It was as if he could have just driven to the hoop all along. Not that he should drive in all the time or never take threes, but it seems like he can get points when needed.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Interestingly, whether Ben should start is the poll question on the Tribune's website ( http://www.chicagosports.com/ ). Right no, No is at 75% or so, which seems crazy to me.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

There is something about this that I understand: Minutes. Gordon should be logging 34-36 minutes a game. I frankly don't think any argument to the contrary holds water. And he's played 32, 35, 35, and 37 in his last 4 games. So that seems to be the trend. Also, his minutes might only be 30 pg for the month of December - in part - because we had so many games where we drubbed our opponents. As we continue to play a tougher schedule with tighter games, I think his minutes will remain "starter's minutes". 

There is something about this that I don't understand: Starting. Why does it matter to you guys if he starts? If the minutes are there, and the Bulls are winning, then I just don't see why any of you guys are complaining. To me, thats just fanboy stuff (which I don't mean as an insult as I, too, am a fanboy - of My Boo Lu :biggrin: ).


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> There is something about this that I understand: Minutes. Gordon should be logging 34-36 minutes a game. I frankly don't think any argument to the contrary holds water. And he's played 32, 35, 35, and 37 in his last 4 games. So that seems to be the trend. Also, his minutes might only be 30 pg for the month of December - in part - because we had so many games where we drubbed our opponents. As we continue to play a tougher schedule with tighter games, I think his minutes will remain "starter's minutes".
> 
> There is something about this that I don't understand: Starting. Why does it matter to you guys if he starts? If the minutes are there, and the Bulls are winning, then I just don't see why any of you guys are complaining. To me, thats just fanboy stuff (which I don't mean as an insult as I, too, am a fanboy - of My Boo Lu :biggrin: ).


Penguin, I just signed in for the first time today and saw that this thread had re-emerged. I was all geared up to post something that was frighteningly similar to your "what I don't understand." The only thing I'd add is that Ben seems to be OK with it.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Like LeBron James said Ben Gordon is a starter on all thirty nba teams.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

transplant said:


> I was all geared up to post something that was frighteningly similar to your "what I don't understand."


That is because you are intelligent, funny and, no doubt, popular with the ladies.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> That is because you are intelligent, funny and, no doubt, popular with the ladies.


You understand completely. You have a real gift.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> If he starts the game, he can play 40 minutes a night. By sitting out the first 10 minutes of each half like he currently does, *he is limited to around 30 minutes a night (at best)*. The guy needs to start, and get heavy minutes, he's young, he's well conditioned, and he's good.


Interestingly, his "at best" 30 minutes a night is what he averages (29.8 mpg). As some others have pointed out, Kirk averages 4.2 mpg more than Ben (34 mpg). Are we seriously saying that Ben is not getting quality minutes? I took the time to look through his game logs (located conveniently at nba.com) and found these games where he had significantly less than 30 mpg. No coincidence I think, that they were also awful shooting nights. I present *Exhibit A*:

*Ben Gordon*

DEC 15 (vs MIL) *24 minutes* 3-15 from the floor.
DEC 8 (vs TOR) *25 minutes* 4-14 from the floor.
DEC 4 (vs BOS) *22 minutes* 3-10 from the floor.
NOV 25 (@ NYK) *23 minutes* 1-4 from the floor.
NOV 11 (vs IND) *21 minutes* 1-8 from the floor.
NOV 9 (@ CLE) *23 minutes* 1-10 from the floor.
NOV 3 (vs SAC) *21 minutes* 2-7 from the floor.
OCT 31 (@ MIA) *23 minutes* 1-9 from the floor.

Recently Ben has shown a much more well-rounded game than in the past, but often when his shot isn't falling, he's not contributing in other areas, either. It appears that Skiles has been consistently giving Ben fewer minutes when he "for whatever reason" does not have it on a given night. 

Before more whining that Kirk doesn't get the same treatment, I'd like to present *Exhibit B*: 

*Kirk Hinrich*

DEC 23 (vs CHA) *26 minutes* 1-7 from the floor.
DEC 19 (vs LAL) *24 minutes* 3-6 from the floor.
DEC 6 (vs PHI) *11 minutes* 0-2 from the floor.
NOV 19 (@ LAL) *23 minutes* 1-7 from the floor.
NOV 6 (vs MIL) *22 minutes* 2-6 from the floor.

While Hinrich has had fewer of those games, he's had them, too. Also, Kirk's primary responsibility is not scoring, but running the team.

Ultimately, Skiles seems to be keeping the guys in the games when he should and pulling them when he should. They are a good pair of guys to compliment each other on the floor. I just don't see why it always has to be one against the other or start my guy this, my guy's minutes are bad that. Our guys, Ben & Kirk, both seem to be pretty effective this year at playing their roles within what this team is set up to do. 

Why complain?


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Wynn,

Very good observation, always like your logic.

Just only few points:

IMO, Skiles thinks that we need a legit post player before he will move Ben up, into the starting line (it may be not a bad idea), but Bulls fans want to see a real superstar on our team (beside BW). Usually, in NBA, superstar starts the game not coming from the bench game after game…in his third season and I am afraid we will loose him, the same way Toronto lost TM.

Skiles needs to start Ben, in order to create an environment where he will be self-motivated and more productive.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Bulls96 said:


> Wynn,
> 
> Very good observation, always like your logic.
> 
> ...


Thanks, *Bulls96!*, for your kind words. While I'm certain you're right that Skiles wants (needs!) a legit post player, I'm not sure that is a requirement of for Ben to start. I do feel like, as someone posted earlier, Skiles wants a strong scorer off the bench. His quote in another thread speaks to that desire. At the beginning of the season, I think he saw Nocioni in that role. With PJ's lack of effectiveness as a starter, I think Skiles felt that starting Noc became a priority. Paired with Gordon's struggles, the answer became basically a Noc for Gordon swap. PJ and Duhon are really just fillers. If another change were to be made, we'd likely see a Ben AND Malik/PJ/Sweets shift, purely to keep a strong player coming from the bench -- Nocioni again.

Problem is, why? The current roatation seems to be working out just fine. Both Ben and Skiles seem to be okay with it, and I'm sure Ben knows how important he is to this team. Frankly, I think everyone in the league thinks of Ben as a starter.... as do I. It's clear that he's one of our best players. It's not that Duhon beat him out of a spot, etc. It just seems that as the team is currently constituted, this arrangement works.

It the future, I could easily see a starting group of *Kirk, Ben, Luol, Tyrus, *and *Ben* with a bench of *Andres, Thabo, Chris, NYDraftPick* and filler coming off the bench. For this season....... stay with what's working.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Wynn said:


> Also, Kirk's primary responsibility is not scoring, but running the team.


But isn't Chris Duhon the starting point guard?

Duhon plays 52% of the Bulls PG minutes.
Hinrich plays 37% of the Bulls PG minutes.
Gordon plays 6% of the Bulls PG minutes.


I don't buy that Kirk Hinrich's primary job is to run the team.

Duhon plays more PG. Duhon generates more assists per minute. Duhon is more responsible for "running the team" than Hinrich.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

kukoc4ever said:


> But isn't Chris Duhon the starting point guard?
> 
> Duhon plays 52% of the Bulls PG minutes.
> Hinrich plays 37% of the Bulls PG minutes.
> ...


I buy it. For the most part, he controls the ball on offense (Gordon is doing this a lot more now than he used to) and spearheads the defense. "Point guard" or not. And he's Skiles' mouthpiece on the floor. He runs the team. 

As for those percentages, I don't think they really apply to the Duhon/Hinrich backcourt anyway. For all the talk I hear about Duhon playing point guard, he seems to play off the ball an awful lot with Hinrich as the primary initiator of the offense to me. When Duhon and Gordon are out there, though, Du is typically running the point.

And Gordon is getting a lot more than 6% of the point guard minutes this season in my opinion. I don't know how they (who is "they" anyway?) develop those stats (how do they do that?), and they probably do accurately represent the state of things on teams with clearly delineated back courts like New Jersey or Seattle, but they don't really capture what I see with the Bulls fearsome threesome.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

It's weird that Gordon run's the point at the end of every game. Like the last five minutes.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> I buy it. For the most part, he controls the ball on offense (Gordon is doing this a lot more now than he used to) and spearheads the defense. "Point guard" or not. And he's Skiles' mouthpiece on the floor. He runs the team.


spot on here; under the bull philosophy the term "point guard" is defined (and applied) differently for each of the four guards. i state four, because in a short while, thabo will be an offensive initiator in different combinations (thabo and kirk, thabo and gordon). duhon is the least versatile of the group, but he can play strictly pg with all the aforementioned three. it's actually a good situation if the players can manage their egos long enough to win consistenly, because skiles has more ability to go with matchups and not have to ride anybody for extreme periods. he also has more flexibility to "ride the hot hand" as he's done successfully in the past. 

kirk and ben are the best two guards; ultimately and regardless of who's considered the "point guard" these two will be "the guys"



> It the future, I could easily see a starting group of Kirk, Ben, Luol, Tyrus, and Ben with a bench of Andres, Thabo, Chris, NYDraftPick and filler coming off the bench.


i feel this is what pax's vision is taking shape as, in a "worst case scenario" which in my view is damn good. however, this does not (and probably should not) preclude a blockbuster deal that involved the pick, filler, cash and whatever amenities he can muster if a fire sale takes place in minnesota, memphis, or even portland for a lesser but "scoring big" in jamal magloire.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> he can muster if a fire sale takes place in minnesota, memphis, or even portland for a lesser but "scoring big" in jamal magloire.


Magloire is having a stellar season, almost all star calibre, averaging a whopping 5.7 points and 5.5 rebounds per game!

Where do I sign up for that move?


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