# Spanish NT



## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

I just wanted to get a real view how good Spanish NT is, after debating it with Genjuro...

Point Guards:
-Raul Lopez(Utah)10ppg, 2rpg, 3.3apg (2002stats for Real Madrid)
-Paco Vasquez(Joventut)7.2 ppg, 2.2 rpg (UlebCup)
-Marco Carles(Joventut) 6.5 ppg, 3.2 apg (UlebCup)

Shooting Guards:
-Juan Carlos Navarro (Barca) 11.5 ppg, 1.6 rpg (Euroleague)
-Nacho Rodriguez (Barca) 3.5ppg, 1.8 rpg (Euroleague)
-Berni Rodriguez (Unicaja) 5.9 ppg,2.4 rpg, 1.8 apg (Euroleague)

Small forwards:
-Angulo Lucio (Real) 8.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg (Euroleague)
-Jimenez Carlos(Adecco) 7.4 ppg, 3.6 ppg 2.0 bpg (UlebCup)

Power forwards:
-Jorge Garbajosa (Benneton) 12.3 ppg ,6.7 rpg 2.3 spg (Euroleague)
-Felipe Reyes ( Adecco) 14.9 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.3 bpg (UlebCup)
-Jose Antonio Paraiso(Pamesa) 7.6ppg, 3.4 rpg (UlebCup)

Centers:
-Pau Gasol ( Memphis) 19ppg 8.8 rpg, 2.8 apg 1.8 bpg 
-Chuck Kornegay (Unicaja)6.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg (euroleague)
-Alfonso Reyes (Real) 5.8 ppg, 3.3rpg

Scarry from the inside:yes:... but outside looks quite weak to me, especially if Lopez is still injured... and a question- can Felipe Reyes Play sf, considering he is only 6'8?


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

And I just noticed Eurobasket.com isn't the most reliable source about NT members... for all uninvited players on the list I apologise...:angel:


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## josegr (Jun 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> I just wanted to get a real view how good Spanish NT is, after debating it with Genjuro...
> 
> Point Guards:
> ...


This list is last years pre-NT list for the worlds.

For this summer: 
Raul Lopez, N. Rodriguez, B. Rodriguez, L. Angulo, Paraiso, C. Kornegay OUT 

Carlos Cabezas (Unicaja), Calderón (TAU), Herreros (Real Madrid), De la Fuente (Barcelona), Yebra (Forum Valladolid), Bueno (Real Madrid) IN

More things, Felipe Reyes is at least 6-10, and closer to C than SF.
In the wrong list, Paco Vazquez and N. Rodriguez should switch PG & SG positions. 

This summer's NT is strong inside, unexperienced at PG, and also recovers outside shot if Herreros is hot coming back to the team.


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## J-Will2 (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: Spanish NT*



> Originally posted by <b>josegr</b>!
> This summer's NT is strong inside, unexperienced at PG, and also recovers outside shot if Herreros is hot coming back to the team.


Yup, we all agree about the Spanish strength inside. But can Herreros still play? I'm not too sure about that... :no: 
But still a very good team; as always a pain in the [edited]! Very hard to beat...


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

All pointing to not-top-notch guards line disguises the fact that spaniards are legitimate championship contenders. If they bring their stingy defence to Sweden, they "will be allright".
Personally I hope Lithuania NT will get some revenge for that unforgetable loss in 1999 quarterfinal...:sigh:


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## josegr (Jun 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Spanish NT*



> Originally posted by <b>J-Will2</b>!
> 
> 
> Yup, we all agree about the Spanish strength inside. But can Herreros still play? I'm not too sure about that... :no:
> But still a very good team; as always a pain in the [edited]! Very hard to beat...


Now he doesn't have to play as the team star, this is the job of Gasol or Navarro. Herreros will play from the bench 15-20 minutes at best, and should make some shots. As a role player he could be very important for Spain in key moments.


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## J-Will2 (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Spanish NT*



> Originally posted by <b>josegr</b>!
> 
> 
> Now he doesn't have to play as the team star, this is the job of Gasol or Navarro. Herreros will play from the bench 15-20 minutes at best, and should make some shots. As a role player he could be very important for Spain in key moments.


Yup, he was good in key moments since I can remember... I guess he can play 20 minutes moderately well. Hope it works out :greatjob:


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

Good to see a thread about the Spanish team. Let's take a look at the possitions:

Backcourt:
Spain has a little problem at the point. Carles Marco is not a player for a competition of such caliber. He is too short and get abused in the post. José Manuel Calderón, although talented and superathletic, maybe is not mature enough to run the point. Roger Grimau is a combo guard. I think he will spend most of the time at the SG spot. Navarro is the star here. He is another combo guard and could take care of the point guard job, but again he is not the classic PG, but a prolific and sometimes erratic scorer. And really clutch.

I think Spain should play split the time in the backcourt between Calderón, Navarro and Grimau. Herreros could be used at certains moments of the game. He is way over the hill, but he is still the most reliable shooter of the team. This combination would provide quite good ofensive power, although not much direction from the point. Marco is the only true director. He could be used if the offensive game is jammed.

Small Forward:
Two similar players will share time here: Carlos Jiménez and Rodrigo de la Fuente. Both are defensive minded players, blue collar guys, really hard workers. Jiménez is more of a rebounder, while Rodrigo is capable of deffending almost any perimeter guy in Europe. They shouldn't be at the same time in the court, because the offensive game of the team would suffer a lot.

Inside players:
Pau Gasol, Jorge Garbajosa and Felipe Reyes. Gasol is a soft player, but so talented and physically gifted that he is dominant in Europe. I hope he will put a little extra intensity in the important games. Garbajosa is another great player. He has very good range, but maybe he relies too much in his three point shot. I think he could try more often to use his nice post game. On the other hand, he is a hard worker on defense. But the most intense player of all is Felipe Reyes, an offensive rebounding monster. He is not a pure scorer, but with his rebounds, put backs and playing without the ball, he can put up big numbers. The fourth inside player will be Antonio Bueno. He could play some decent minutes in both offensive and defensive end. Alfonso Reyes, an over the hill player, could be also used in certain moments. He is a banger, and if the game is ugly, he could give a hand.

This team will probably struggle to make a fluid offensive game, considering the lack of direction in the court and perhaps off the court. Moncho López is a young and unproven coach who will have a really tough job: we expect a lot of this team and anything lower than a fifth place would be a tragedy (you don't have always a Gasol in your team to face the Olympics).

Last Saturday Spain played against Greece. It was an ugly game. The referees wasted the game calling way too many fouls. The Spanish team was irregular during the game. The defense is a question mark right now. The offense was solve thanks to the referees and Juan Carlos Navarro. He is inconsistent, but if he is hot, Spain is really hard to beat.

I liked the Greek team. They are talented and have great depth. The play like a team and really hard. Maybe too hard. Let's hope they keep focused on the games. I think they are a top-4 team with Serbia-Montenegro, Spain and Germany.


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

i would very much like to see spain vs germany or to be more accurate gasol VS nowitzki ...


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

*Germany again!?!*

What makes you feel Germany is so sure top4, name me where Germany is so much better than Lithuania, France, Croatia, Slovenia ? I'm getting a bit tired of this Germany hype but I can do preview just for my fun & pleasure and to :laugh:


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## J-Will2 (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Germany again!?!*



> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> What makes you feel Germany is so sure top4, name me where Germany is so much better than Lithuania, France, Croatia, Slovenia ? I'm getting a bit tired of this Germany hype but I can do preview just for my fun & pleasure and to :laugh:


:yes: 

I can't get it either... Playing against Germany... It's kinda like playing 5 on 3. Or maybe even 5 on 2.5, considering all the great players playing in teams like Lithuania, Spain, S&MN, Greece, Slovenia, France etc...


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Germany again!?!*



> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> What makes you feel Germany is so sure top4, name me where Germany is so much better than Lithuania, France, Croatia, Slovenia ? I'm getting a bit tired of this Germany hype but I can do preview just for my fun & pleasure and to :laugh:


Well, do I have to suppose that it was Lithuania, France, Croatia or Slovenia the teams that got the fourth place in the last EC and the third place in the last WC?

Why can't you accept it?. It has happened twice. Why not again?. The team is the same. Even Nowitzki should be now a better player. Same for Fermerling and Okulaja. It is so difficult to understand it?

By the way, I'm not saying that the Germans are a sure top-4. Anything can happen in the quarterfinals. I'm just saying that they are among the four teams that look better to me in order to succeed in this championship.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Well I can't accept it- and even if they will repeat their previous succes this year I will claim, they are not as good as these other teams...
IMO these teams were all a bit unlucky, and Germans on the other hand were pretty lucky to finish as they did. 
France is just better now- with Parker they gained one of the biggest potential in Europe, Abdul-Wahad obviously can play in Europe others like Sonko, Risacher, Moiso are well known so I won't loose any words about it, and they have talent in both Pietrus, Diaw and few others. That is enough to me to say they are better than Germany!
Croatia... Bagaric and Sundov- since they haven't proove themselves in NBA they got their chance now, Vujcic is at the moment one of the best PF's in Europe with excellent post moves overall Nowitzki is much better, and they have so many Sf and guards of Euroleague quality (Giricek- orlando...)-they leave me no choice but to put them infront of Germany.
Slovenia has a decent coach for the first time in history probably 3rd best outside line- probably 1st or 2nd deepest.
anyway some teams have gained a lot since the last EC, Germany hasn't gained one affirmated player or one potential over these few years...

I changed my view on Spanish NT a bit, when I did my homework about it, I did my homework about Germay too... all I could was LMAO. :yes:


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## ira (May 3, 2003)

you don`t need 10 first class players to have a good basketball team .... one in enough 
and in this case nowitzki is more than enough!!!! 

maybe you don`t like ( i don`t) but this is also a way to have a successfull team


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ira</b>!
> i would very much like to see spain vs germany or to be more accurate gasol VS nowitzki ...



I remember when they played one versus each other at the Eurobasket in Turkey. It was a offensive matchup; each one scored 30-plus points at that game...


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> Well I can't accept it- and even if they will repeat their previous succes this year I will claim, they are not as good as these other teams...
> IMO these teams were all a bit unlucky, and Germans on the other hand were pretty lucky to finish as they did.


If you start calling for luck...

By the way, I remember the semifinals at the EC against Turkey, and that game was in Germans pockets. The were up by 3 points and the let Turkoglu hit a three pointer over the buzzer to take the game to the overtime without trying to foul him before the shot. It was a really stupid play.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

I remember that as well, Germany would won this just with the foul... and not commiting foul in that moment is not just lack of luck but could also be called stupidity as you said.
All I'm trying to say here is leave the history behind and look at their teams roster, no offense but if this is a top4 NT- something is really wrong in this game- it's better for me than to start practicing [edited] figure ice skating- Still is more of a team sport than German basketball NT. :yes:


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

Relax Matis, you arent alone in universe thinking that Germany's hype went too far. I think the same too.



> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> Well I can't accept it- and even if they will repeat their previous succes this year I will claim, they are not as good as these other teams...


Great point really. Its doesnt seem very logical, but thats the exact thing I thought about Germany NT. They can get lucky in one game and somehow go through 1/4, but they cant be considered as a top4 contender.



> France is just better now- <...>That is enough to me to say they are better than Germany!


Yes, they are.



> Croatia<...> they leave me no choice but to put them infront of Germany.


Here I dont agree, I dont see Croatia in favorites of this champ. I better put Spain or Greece instead of them.



> Slovenia has a decent coach for the first time in history probably 3rd best outside line- probably 1st or 2nd deepest.


You are repeating and repeating that Slovenia is great this year... well I have to start believing that, but all their dissapointments in last decade are so in my head, that I cant see them in Top4 either.

My top4 (no order):

S&M
Lithuania
Spain
Greece (France)


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> Relax Matis


I know... someday maybe I got carried away all the time...



> you arent alone in universe thinking that Germany's hype went too far. I think the same too.


Thank god! I'm getting a bit tired of all this...



> I dont see Croatia in favorites of this champ


They are not biggest favorites but they do have team, that seems very strong to me, perhaps because I know them, but anyway I think they are underestimated with all that players they've got... we'll see.



> You are repeating and repeating that Slovenia is great this year...


I'm trying not to, but obviously I do! I don't mean to be offensive by this but I mostlikely am. 
I do remember all this dissapointments, loosing against Izrael, Latvia, France in the lasts seconds ( a broke TV because of it ... tempers tempers :no: )All I got now is hope, that mentality changed in NT, and that's one of the reasons I am optimistic- What's different this year? (our roster could be better) - not only that some of our players are totaly pissed of because of previous failurs, but guys are serious (a bit late but f*** it :upset: ) :some staff from NT says players never (not even close) came to the first practice as prepared as this year... I don't even doubt about quality of our players, they prooved themselves during the season playing major roles in good clubs. 
But I understand your point exactly, but hey why shouldn't they surprise after this EC! If our sh*t eating mentaly regarded football players could do it, why not basketball players for a change! 
Ups that sh*t is a bit long, and I'm the one crying I hate long posts.


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

Well, Spain faced today Lithuania in another exhibition game. It was an easy win for the Spaniards. Anyway, there are still some serious concerns:

- The PG possition is not well covered. Carlos Cabezas was awful (I think he won't be in the final roster), Carles Marco was mediocre and Calderón was erratic. Calderón is still the best choice to take care of the PG duties. Him or Navarro.

- Although Gasol played quite well, Spain suffers when all the offense runs through him. He is not passing the ball fast enough to keep the offense fluid. He spends too much time with the ball in his hands deciding what to do. During the second quarter, without him on the court, Spain cruised over Lithuania.

- Spain suffers a lot against zone defenses. That's not anything new, but it is still a problem. Fortunately, the outside shooting seems to be working. Herreros played a great game (he is the kind of player the excells with the national team) and Navarro is hitting the treys consistently.

Meanwhile, Lithuania looked poor. Jasikevicius was the best player. I think this team, although really talented, is not solid enough, but they can kill anyone given a slightly inspirated game.


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## J-Will2 (Aug 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> Thank god! I'm getting a bit tired of all this...


Same here. Matiz... I agree with you and Zalgirinis very much.




> Originally posted by <b>ira</b>!
> you don`t need 10 first class players to have a good basketball team .... one in enough
> and in this case nowitzki is more than enough!!!!


Can't agree with you here, ira... Too many excellent players in EU that can stop the other German players, who are much under-average (except Okulaja, who was average this year and Femerling, who was... Just big). 

And yup, this thread is about the Spanish NT, so I'm sorry that I had to write about Germany, but I had to express my emotions


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

Another win for Spain, this time against Ukranie. It was way too easy to show anything about the Spanish game. If something, the fact that the team keep on concentrated almost the entire game, despite the enormous point difference. I wonder how could Lithuania win them by just six points the day before.


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

Ugly loss last nigh against Lithuania. As I had said, although I don't see Lithuania as a really strong team, they are extremely dangerous. They had a very good shooting day, and the Spanish squad couldn't get over it.

The Spanish game is built through the defense, and the lack of intensity, agressiveness and motivation allowed Lithuania to be even more effective.

In the offensive end it didn't look much better. No defense, therefore, no fastbreaks. And in the static offense, among other things, Spain missed a PG capable of running it properly (or a coach capable of organizing it properly). There were not spaces, fluidity, open shots,.. Navarro couldn't play due to a minor injury, and he could have helped a lot.

I think it was the typical bad game for Spain, but the kind of game that they could win because of the individual skills of Navarro, Gasol and Garbajosa, and with just a little more intensity from the defense.


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