# Shaq: Lakers were getting "fat"



## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

Shaq holds firm

DEMAND: O'Neal insists he won't return to LA and wants to play for a team that wants to win.

12:47 AM PDT on Friday, June 25, 2004

By BRODERICK TURNER / The Press-Enterprise

The little lady eased up to the massive Shaquille O'Neal while he was eating lunch, her kids in tow, all of them crying.

As the tears streamed down her face, too, she begged O'Neal to discontinue his demand that the Lakers trade him.

"I've never seen anybody crying, but she was crying and saying, 'Don't go,' " O'Neal said Wednesday. "I told her, 'It ain't me.' "

He said he could not envision any situation in which he would return to the Lakers for a ninth season.

"Unfortunately, it has come to this. But I want the fans to know that it's not me," he said.

O'Neal, who said the Lakers were getting "fat" as an organization and didn't want to win, was asked what he would do if the Lakers didn't trade him and he was forced to return to LA.

"There ain't no ifs," he said. "I want to play for a team that's willing to win."

"They said it's about the money. It's not about the money," he said. "It's about honesty, and the honesty me and (former Lakers general manager) Jerry West had. That's been gone for four years now ... It ain't about the extension. Of course, that's what they are going to make it out to be."

"Me playing for another coach rather than Phil is like leaving my wife, Shaunie, for a woman that looks like me," O'Neal joked. "Me and Phil had a good conversation Thursday. They let Bush (Jackson) go. Now they're trying to move the general (O'Neal) to Saigon."

O'Neal was asked if Bryant helped to push Jackson out and have him traded.

"I'm not going to answer that," O'Neal said. "I don't know...They say I'm getting older. Of course, I am. But can't nobody (mess) with me. I'm like toilet paper, Pampers and toothpaste. I'm definitely proven to be effective." 

http://www.pe.com/sports/lakers/stories/PE_Sports_Local_lakers_25.57686.html


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

Well, if anyone knows about "getting fat" it's him... (there, somebody had to say it, right?)

I still don't understand how he can say he wouldn't play for another coach and then say he wants to play somewhere else where Phil Jackson won't be the coach there either.

Anyways, I think I can decipher what he's saying here: "The Lakers have gotten so used to success in the past that they now think they can put any product on the floor and it'll win just because they're the Lakers, but in reality me and Phil were the ones that got us the 3 championships and you've now turned your back on both of us. You like Kobe more than you like me and my feelings are hurt, so I don't want to play here anymore."


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Oh man, it doesn't look good. :no: I don't want Shaq to play for other team. It would be wierd to see him in a different uniform.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sean</b>!
> "But can't nobody (mess) with me. I'm like toilet paper, Pampers and toothpaste. I'm definitely proven to be effective."


So stupid. So very, very stupid.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

if that's the case Shaq should fit right in :rofl:


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baske...,1,5085638.story?coll=sns-ap-lakers-headlines

*"Because of the comments, we've been getting an awful lot of phone calls," Kupchak said of O'Neal. "I would hope that he'd be back next year." *

at first, Mitch said he wants to trade Shaq. Now, he's backing up his statement. Can't this guy get anything straighten up for once! :upset:


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

You know what, I would hate it if Mitch was my boss as well. The guy just seems like a snake.

I'm begging Mitch to finally do something and hire Rudy. Then send Rudy, Magic, B.Shaw and Payton over to Shaqs' crib to talk him out of it. 

Maybe Rudy calls on a favor and gets Hakeem to come. Hakeem tells him what a great coach Rudy is and what a mistake it was to go to Toronto, granted Shaq is much better than the Hakeem that played in Canada.


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

You just know that somehow the Lakers are going to make up with Shaq.

I still think all this is just grandstanding on Shaq's part. He does not feel like they are kissing his butt enough. With the way they have picked Kobe to build around I am not sure I blame him.

But in the end staying with the Lakers is the most likely scenario.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Just more bull from shaq, I bet if buss gives him an extension for more money he'll all the sudden be like the lakers are about winning again!


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Shaq is a joke saying the franchise got fat. 

Isn't he the one who talked GP and Malone into coming to LA isn't he the one who always openly suggest how things should go that he's the real gm of the team and that he was the general, but now he's saying the teams not commited to winning because they want him to take less money like KG money. 

He's lying saying this isn't about the extension thats what this is all about they've been trying to come to terms with him for awhile on that extension but now he wants out because they won't give him 30 mill a year. 

Yet he expects the team to win with just he and Kobe and no one else athletic, anyone else who can shoot and produce. 

Shaq's handpicked team of Gp and Malone didn't work and he's mad at the Lakers. 

I've never openly ever heard Kobe politic for certain players or coaches to come to LA but Shaq always makes people believe its Kobe not going along with the game plan. 

Maybe its Kobe's turn to have a voice in how things are because Shaq's no longer suggesting a winning formula. 

Maybe its time we try things Kobe's way for awhile. 

And thats the crux of the problem. Shaq doesn't want to be on a team where Kobe has more say than he does. Now thats very selfish. 

He thinks he knows more about what it takes than Kobe does. Quite frankly Shaq wasn't a champion until Kobe became an allstar which must be hard for him to take. 

I'll miss Shaq but maybe its time for him to go. 

Kupchak has just been a weak pawn in this game Buss is playing. Buss set Kup up to run Jerry West out now Shaq out. 

I'd rather have Dirk and whomever at least I'd know if the Lakers failed to win it would be because they weren't good enough rather than this sick feeling that behind the scene's politics ruined another chance at glory that we have now.


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## Limee (Jun 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> Isn't he the one who talked GP and Malone into coming to LA isn't he the one who always openly suggest how things should go that he's the real gm of the team and that he was the general, but now he's saying the teams not commited to winning because they want him to take less money like KG money.


That's exactly what I thought reading his comments.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

i have been telling you laker fans this for a while now and i'll say it again....SHAQ'S PROBLEM IS NOT THE MONEY, IT IS KOBE. he is tired of playing with a selfish individual

lets face it...the last 2 years (no championships), the offense has been centered around kobe. shaq has put up with it for 2 seasons and they fell short of the championship. this was clearly evident in the finals when shaq was unstoppable, but kobe continues with his poor shooting despite shaq dominating almost every 1st quarter of each game.

i don't see why laker fans can't see whats wrong with the motto...if its not broken, why fix it...with shaq as the focal point, they won 3 titles. with kobe...zero. 

its time to trade kobe and get what they can...shaq thinks that kobe is the problem, and the lakers till continue to kiss kobe's ***no masked cursing allowed.  . thats why he wants to leave because laker management is blinded by kobe.

okay...here's some responses to some of you...
jazzy,



> Shaq's handpicked team of Gp and Malone didn't work and he's mad at the Lakers.


shaq didn't handpick them...laker management told him to recruit them and he did. 



> Maybe its time we try things Kobe's way for awhile.


lakers did...the last 2 years. theres no doubt kobe was the center of the offense.

kennethto,


> Just more bull from shaq, I bet if buss gives him an extension for more money he'll all the sudden be like the lakers are about winning again!


i disagree...and i'll reiterate again...the problem is KOBE, not the money....i think there was a thread here about the mavs trade involving dirk, and shaq said he doesn't want dirk to get traded if he goes there....thats proof that he cares about winning. 

all in all though...i think shaq will still stay be in LA at the start of next season....the lakers are too proud and don't want to get anything less than market value despite other teams not willing to mortgage half their team. other teams will stick with their current offers and there will be a standstill. shaq will start the season in LA...kobe will be the main options...and the lakers will continue to be good but not good enough...and then perhaps management will be desperate and trade shaq even though deep down they know kobe is the cancer but will be too proud to back off on their statements.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

This is getting uglier and uglier by the minute...

Once thing is for certain: Shaq is a jackass. Nothing new, here, for so are Suckshap and Kobe.

First: i don´t want to lose Shaq. Period.

Second: With Shaq refusing to renegotiate his deal, we could very well make two more runs at the Finals (his last 2 contract years), but we would probably come up short (again).

Third: The Lakers can´t win without a third player stepping up, and we don´t have that kind of player in our roster.

Fourth: This battle in the media is tearing our franchise apart and making a spetacle out of those involved.

The solution:
- Shaq stays.
- Offense through Shaq, to keep him motivated and (maybe, just maybe!) willing to play defense;
- Kobe accpets the fact that getting 10+ triple-doubles in a season is way better (for the team) than winning scoring titles;
- Can´t get a third offensive weapon? Well, let us get a seasoned vet who can shoot (Barry?) and some athletic players to improve our depth.

I believe the current Laker team, with some minor tune-ups, could still win it all.

Now, if Shaq remains stubborn, i believe there´s only one guy who could talk him out of his stance (even if we can´t pull off an acceptable Shaq trade, would we want a disgruntled Shaq for 2 more years?), and that´s... Kobe Bryant 

But i suspect that egotistical punk will never think about that...


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## Real McCoy (Oct 17, 2003)

Shaq makes comments and somehow this goes back to Kobe Bryant?  

I don't know. Shaq has been downright ignorant since as long as I remember. Now his comments seem like they are going to be a weekly thing. The guy really has no class. 

I hope the Lakers do trade or let Kobe go (Shaq's wish), because when the wheels to the Diesel breakdown, the Lakers will be looking like roadkill.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

realmccoy,



> Shaq makes comments and somehow this goes back to Kobe Bryant?


duh??? of course it goes back to bryant...because that is who he is referring to!! shaq doesn't care about that money as you current kobe fans like to say as their #1 excuse now...he just doesn't want to play with spoiled brat kobe.



> I hope the Lakers do trade or let Kobe go (Shaq's wish), because when the wheels to the Diesel breakdown, the Lakers will be looking like roadkill.


okay real mccoy...i don't know if you admit your a laker fan or not, but if you say you are....then you really aren't!! your just telling me that you rather have the lakers suck than comply with shaq's demands (the guy who won 3 titles, not KOBE). it looks like your a boy KOBE fan, not a laker fan! which is what I believe most so-called laker fans truly are in this board - KOBE fans.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> i have been telling you laker fans this for a while now and i'll say it again....SHAQ'S PROBLEM IS NOT THE MONEY, IT IS KOBE. he is tired of playing with a selfish individual
> 
> i disagree...and i'll reiterate again...the problem is KOBE, not the money....i think there was a thread here about the mavs trade involving dirk, and shaq said he doesn't want dirk to get traded if he goes there....thats proof that he cares about winning.


NO. IF all Shaq cared about was winning he never would've said stuff like "I got my injury on company time so I'll get if fixed on company time." If all Shaq cared about was winning he'd never show up to training camp at 370 lbs, use the regular season as training camp and treat the playoffs like the regular season. If Shaq cared about winning he wouldn't act like a jerk everytime someone brought up his free-throw shooting and would work non-stop with a coach until he could shoot at least 70%. If all Shaq cared about was winning he would TAKE A PAYCUT SO OTHER PLAYERS could be signed; and not archaic dinosaurs like Karl Malone and Gary Payton who only got paid food stamps.

All Shaq demanding that Dirk stays in Dallas shows is how immature and stupid he is. It has nothing to do with winning. It has everything to do with using every angle he can possibly think of to try and screw the Lakers over because he thinks the Laker management likes Kobe more than they like him and he feels if he's not getting what he wants he might as well drag everyone else down with him. If Shaq isn't traded this off-season look for him to show up to training camp looking like ham-bone just in spite of the Lakers. Forget about this Shaq/Kobe combination working anymore, there's no turning back now because Shaq now feels like Kup, Buss and Kobe are his enemies.

Why do you think he wants to go to Dallas? Not because he likes the players so much nor because he thinks he has such a great chance to win another championship. It's because he knows Mark Cuban has a ton of money and will be willing to spend it on him. That's it.

I've been a Shaq fan ever since he came to the Orlando Magic back in '92, but this is ridiculous. He can go to hell now for all I care, I don't give a . Trade him for Pavel iPodkolzinovich straight up 1-for-1, just get this guy the hell out of here. If we suck, we just suck. If Kobe leaves, great for him, see you when we see you, but this mess has got to stop. Now that Shaq has made these comments I don't know why any team would want to pay him $30 million a season.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

locke,



> NO. IF all Shaq cared about was winning he never would've said stuff like "I got my injury on company time so I'll get if fixed on company time." If all Shaq cared about was winning he'd never show up to training camp at 370 lbs, use the regular season as training camp and treat the playoffs like the regular season. If Shaq cared about winning he wouldn't act like a jerk everytime someone brought up his free-throw shooting and would work non-stop with a coach until he could shoot at least 70%. If all Shaq cared about was winning he would TAKE A PAYCUT SO OTHER PLAYERS could be signed; and not archaic dinosaurs like Karl Malone and Gary Payton who only got paid food stamps.


who cares what shaq does in the offseason?? with him in charge, he brought 3 titles....so whats wrong with that?? the lakers started losing ever since kobe became the main option...and that doesn't work...it hasn't for 2 seasons...thats why shaq wants out...

if you care so much about the offseason...then how come you don't mention kobe?? iIf kobe cares so much about winning, then he wouldn't have gotten into legal trouble. if kobe cared so much, then he wouldn't have sat out 2 weeks because of some mysterious finger cut he got (moving boxes??? hahahah). if kobe cared so much, he wouldn't have ran phil out of town. 



> I've been a Shaq fan ever since he came to the Orlando Magic back in '92, but this is ridiculous. He can go to hell now for all I care, I don't give a . Trade him for Pavel iPodkolzinovich straight up 1-for-1, just get this guy the hell out of here. If we suck, we just suck. If Kobe leaves, great for him, see you when we see you, but this mess has got to stop. Now that Shaq has made these comments I don't know why any team would want to pay him $30 million a season.


this just proves you are not a true laker fan...you rather have them suck than comply with shaqs demands...if this happens, and next year they suck, this board will probabluy just be hearing a bunch of cricket noises...because thats what typical Laker fans do...jumpship. I see it all the time...I feel bad for the true laker fans out there...they must be really pissed at you for saying something like that.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> who cares what shaq does in the offseason?? with him in charge, he brought 3 titles....so whats wrong with that?? the lakers started losing ever since kobe became the main option...and that doesn't work...it hasn't for 2 seasons...thats why shaq wants out...


First of all, Kobe has NEVER, EVER been the main option. The only time he is when A) Shaq is on the bench, or B) Shaq is injured. The Lakers started losing when Shaq started getting lazy and complacent and could no longer cover up the fact that the Laker role players were terrible. But that's what happens when you pay so much money to one player, he becomes as important to that one team as the equivalent of 2-3 other good players because he makes 2-3 times their money. Which is why if Shaq doesn't want to earn that 30 mill he rakes in every year he's got to go. Simple as that.

And what do you mean who cares what Shaq does in the off-season? If it directly effects what happens in the season it matters a whole hell of a lot. Shaq missed several weeks at the start of the '02-'03 season by delaying that operation. You think that didn't make a difference?




> if you care so much about the offseason...then how come you don't mention kobe?? iIf kobe cares so much about winning, then he wouldn't have gotten into legal trouble. if kobe cared so much, then he wouldn't have sat out 2 weeks because of some mysterious finger cut he got (moving boxes??? hahahah). if kobe cared so much, he wouldn't have ran phil out of town.


Ohhhhhhh, now I get it. You'd like me to bash Kobe instead of Shaq. I see. Now you've shown your true colors.

Well, Kobe getting into trouble was dumb, but it's not basketball-related like Shaq's injury was. Kobe just screwed up. He sat out with that finger injury for only a few games, besides, who cares how he got the finger injury? If he couldn't play with the injury then he just couldn't play. It didn't matter if he sustained it moving boxes or if his wife cut him or grazed him with a bullet or what have you.

And as for running Phil out of town. How so? He said plain as day after the press conference after the Lakers lost that he could play with Phil and Shaq forever and always maintained that while he didn't like the triangle he went along with it and while Phil wasn't exactly his best bud either he respected him as a coach, which is all that matters.

If the roles were reversed and Kobe was the old, broken-down has-been superstar who was demanding an extension on his $200 million and was sucking the team dry by being selfish it'd be the same thing; he'd have to be shown the door as well. I'm not taking sides here for either one of these guys because, quite frankly, both of them annoy the living hell out of me a lot of the time.

If Kobe wants to leave because he wants to prove he can win without Shaq, then he's got to do what he's got to do. But at least he's not trying to intentionally screw the franchise over by making these trade demands in which the Lakers lose no matter what they do.



> this just proves you are not a true laker fan...you rather have them suck than comply with shaqs demands...if this happens, and next year they suck, this board will probabluy just be hearing a bunch of cricket noises...because thats what typical Laker fans do...jumpship. I see it all the time...


I want what's best for the Lakers as a TEAM. Not what's best for Shaquille O'Neal, not what's best for Kobe Bryant and not what's best for Phil Jackson's coaching legacy. Paying Shaq $100 million over the 3 years after his current contract ends is not going to win us any more titles. By the same token, Kobe going out jacking up 40 shots a game isn't going to do it either, but at least if Kobe's still here the Lakers can get some decent players in return for Shaq so Kobe won't feel the need to play that way. If the Lakers have to get rid of Shaq because his 10 ton contract is weighing the Lakers down and making them sink to the bottom of the sea then that's the way it's got to be. We're not getting the return on Shaq's salary like we used to and it's killing us now. If he brought it every night like he did in 2000 I'd be the main one here saying "Keep Shaq at all costs," but he is no longer worth all that dough.



> I feel bad for the true laker fans out there...they must be really pissed at you for saying something like that.


:laugh: I speak my mind, son. If somebody disagrees with what I say (like you) then that's why we're here on this board, to discuss things. But believe me I haven't darkened anyone's day by saying what I've said. Everybody has a right to their own opinion and I'm just stating mine. If anyone's pissed off at me because I have a different stance on this issue then so be it. However, you on the other hand are a Laker-hater to the core and it makes no sense for anybody to keep going back and forth with you about anything involving the Lakers because you'll find fault with just about all of it.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

locke,



> First of all, Kobe has NEVER, EVER been the main option. The only time he is when A) Shaq is on the bench, or B) Shaq is injured. The Lakers started losing when Shaq started getting lazy and complacent and could no longer cover up the fact that the Laker role players were terrible. But that's what happens when you pay so much money to one player, he becomes as important to that one team as the equivalent of 2-3 other good players because he makes 2-3 times their money. Which is why if Shaq doesn't want to earn that 30 mill he rakes in every year he's got to go. Simple as that.


kobe was the main option in 02-03 and 03-04. did you forgot that kobe avg 30 ppg in 02-03??? how could you avg 30 ppg if you are the 2nd option?? oh lemme guess, he's just THAT good huh?? sorry man, when you avg 30 ppg, no way in hell are you a 2nd option. as for 03-04, kobe avg 24 ppg while shaq avg 21...seems like kobe's a first option to me. and what happened these past 2 years when kobe was the main option?? they LOST!



> Ohhhhhhh, now I get it. You'd like me to bash Kobe instead of Shaq. I see. Now you've shown your true colors


when did i ever say i wanted you to bash kobe instead of shaq?? i said that if you are bashing shaq, you should ALSO be bashing kobe...but of course you never seem to do. be fair....that is all i am saying. but most laker fans seem to have selective bashing when it comes to kobe.



> Well, Kobe getting into trouble was dumb, but it's not basketball-related like Shaq's injury was. Kobe just screwed up. He sat out with that finger injury for only a few games, besides, who cares how he got the finger injury? If he couldn't play with the injury then he just couldn't play. It didn't matter if he sustained it moving boxes or if his wife cut him or grazed him with a bullet or what have you.


there you go making excuses for kobe again...why don't you make excuses for shaq as well?? you're just being selective in your excuses. your reply of 'kobe just screwed up' should also be 'shaq screwed up' in reference to him being out of shape in the offseason....why didn't you make that excuse for shaq huh??




> And as for running Phil out of town. How so? He said plain as day after the press conference after the Lakers lost that he could play with Phil and Shaq forever and always maintained that while he didn't like the triangle he went along with it and while Phil wasn't exactly his best bud either he respected him as a coach, which is all that matters.


of course thats what kobe is gonna say...he just tries to be the good two shoes guy that you all think he is....just like how he flatout lied to everyone when he first said he didn't have sex with that girl....i bet you believed him didn't you? i know a lot of laker fans that said there is no way in hell kobe would even do anything close to that...looks like they are all wrong and were fooled by kobe. and i am telling you now...the guy is fooling you again.



> If the roles were reversed and Kobe was the old, broken-down has-been superstar who was demanding an extension on his $200 million and was sucking the team dry by being selfish it'd be the same thing; he'd have to be shown the door as well. I'm not taking sides here for either one of these guys because, quite frankly, both of them annoy the living hell out of me a lot of the time.


uhmm...shaq a old broken-down superstar??? the guy just avg like 26 pts and 12 rebs in the finals against the no.1 D. hardly seems broken down to me. like i've been saying, if lakers trade kobe, shaq will be willing to take a paycut for whoever they need to bring in. he just doesn't want to do it for kobe.



> I want what's best for the Lakers as a TEAM. Not what's best for Shaquille O'Neal, not what's best for Kobe Bryant and not what's best for Phil Jackson's coaching legacy. Paying Shaq $100 million over the 3 years after his current contract ends is not going to win us any more titles. By the same token, Kobe going out jacking up 40 shots a game isn't going to do it either, but at least if Kobe's still here the Lakers can get some decent players in return for Shaq so Kobe won't feel the need to play that way. If the Lakers have to get rid of Shaq because his 10 ton contract is weighing the Lakers down and making them sink to the bottom of the sea then that's the way it's got to be. We're not getting the return on Shaq's salary like we used to and it's killing us now. If he brought it every night like he did in 2000 I'd be the main one here saying "Keep Shaq at all costs," but he is no longer worth all that dough.


true....i agree with you...but why not get back to what was working 3 years ago...and that means telling kobe to pass the ball....if kobe doesn't want to, then get someone else that will. Kobe should have a extremely high trade value don't you think??? sign and trade of kobe is best option for lakers.



> However, you on the other hand are a Laker-hater to the core and it makes no sense for anybody to keep going back and forth with you about anything involving the Lakers because you'll find fault with just about all of it.


its funny how you call me a laker hater since i believe my theories make the laker better than they are...i believe they should trade kobe for another young superstar (tmac...hello!). but no...you want to ship out an irreplaceable player that won 3 titles for you straight up for a pavel podkolzine...and you call me the laker hater...haha.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lynx</b>!
> at first, Mitch said he wants to trade Shaq. Now, he's backing up his statement. Can't this guy get anything straighten up for once! :upset:


he didnt say he wanted to trade shaq... he said he could be tradeable if it came to it and kobe is untradeable... he was stating its Kobes team... now i dont think that saying u'd be willing to trade shaq is the wisest choice of words but he never said he wanted to...e


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Shaq is gone... It's basically Shaq said, it's me or Kobe, choose one. They chose Kobe, so he is leaving... Even Fisher said after game 1 of the finals, that it is a little hard to get as amped up about the Finals when you have been there so often. (Three times isn't often but hey...)


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Shaq is gone... It's basically Shaq said, it's me or Kobe, choose one. They chose Kobe, so he is leaving... Even Fisher said after game 1 of the finals, that it is a little hard to get as amped up about the Finals when you have been there so often. (Three times isn't often but hey...)


4 times out of 5 years is...

:whofarted


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

JC, you just keep reiterating your same points over and over again. Locke already refuted all of them and I tend to sway his direction. Shaq's stats are deceptive. The points made by Lock about Shaq's committment to winning are more true than anything. Keep referring to the three point. But Shaq is not the same player, nor does he have the same drive as he had then.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

-D, 

if you call yourself a laker fan, and you agree with trading shaq straight up for pavel podkolzine for the betterment of the lakers.....then i guess i really don't have much to say for you.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> kobe was the main option in 02-03 and 03-04. did you forgot that kobe avg 30 ppg in 02-03??? how could you avg 30 ppg if you are the 2nd option?? oh lemme guess, he's just THAT good huh?? sorry man, when you avg 30 ppg, no way in hell are you a 2nd option. as for 03-04, kobe avg 24 ppg while shaq avg 21...seems like kobe's a first option to me.


OMG dude, lol.

Everyone knows that Kobe was not the team's first option to score. They gave the ball to Shaq every time they possibly could. Shaq has obviously been the first option every season with the Lakers.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)




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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

damian necronamous,



> Every knows that Kobe was not the team's first option to score. They gave the ball to Shaq every time they possibly could. Shaq has obviously been the first option every season with the Lakers.


instead of just saying that you disagree why don't you provide your reasoning....i provided mine in my previous post. specifically point out what you disagree with. don't just say it is...back it up!! kobe avg 30 ppg....does that seem like a 2nd option to you?????


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> damian necronamous,
> 
> 
> ...


My reasoning is that Phil Jackson and the rest of the Lakers consistently blame their losses on the ball not being fed inside to Shaq enough. You never hear any of the Lakers say, "We didn't get the ball to Kobe enough."

Kobe getting 30ppg doesn't prove that he's the first option. Especially when Shaq only played like 60 games that year because of injuries.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

damian,


> My reasoning is that Phil Jackson and the rest of the Lakers consistently blame their losses on the ball not being fed inside to Shaq enough. You never hear any of the Lakers say, "We didn't get the ball to Kobe enough."





> Kobe getting 30ppg doesn't prove that he's the first option. Especially when Shaq only played like 60 games that year because of injuries.


yes, i agree with that...phil definitely wants the team to feed the ball inside to shaq....i think they weren't doing that as often in the last 2 years....thats what phil blames the losses on and why he has a problem with kobe...and is also why he is gone now...agree? so apparantly phil thinks its kobe's fault because they weren't feeding the ball enough to shaq. even the veterans on the team like rick fox was saying after game 4 of the finals this year that they will do whatever it takes to feed it to shaq...but no...since kobe is the main ballhandler, he determines if shaq gets the ball or not...and shaq didn't...in the final game, shaq shot 13 times (most of them coming in the 1st quarter when the game was close, and then not much else), while kobe shot 21 times....seems like kobes a first option to me....phil got tired of kobe not listening to him so he bolted, and now shaq wants to as well....if you guys really think about it this way, i think it makes a lot of sense to know why shaq is pissed and wants out. kobe just doesn't get it.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> -D,
> 
> if you call yourself a laker fan, and you agree with trading shaq straight up for pavel podkolzine for the betterment of the lakers.....then i guess i really don't have much to say for you.


Come on man, I wasn't serious when I said that. I don't actually think the Lakers should trade Shaq straight up for Pavel; anybody knows that trade wouldn't work anyways (as if I actually need to say that). All I meant was that I feel the Lakers are better off as an organization without someone who's going to be this vendictive toward them just because he feels he's not getting the treatment he thinks he's entitled to.

I can't believe someone would actually take that statement seriously. :nonono: Wow...:whoknows:


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

being the so-called laker hater that many of you like to call me, this would be my proposed team for the 04-05 lakers...

pg - payton
sg - tmac
c - shaq
sf - george/or a upgrade because shaq would most likely recruit someone pretty good for this slot.
pf - malone
coach - phil jackson

this is of course assuming a trade of tmac for kobe, and fisher is gone.


now lets look at the lineup that you most of you laker fans want if you cater to kobe's needs.

pg - nash
sg - payton
c - pavel podkolzine/slava/whoever it is, they will suck.
sf - kobe
pf - walker

coach - rudy t (if that), but i would say most likely the overrated byron scott.

this is assuming of course that the most likely trade of nash, walker, and pavel for shaq goes through...no way in hell cuban throws in dirk....count on it....i will say i am wrong if thats the case.

gee...sure looks like the first team is better. just to cater to boy kobe, the lakers basically become the dallas mavericks last year since kobe < nowitzki + finley. not good enough to win.

with the first team, they got it all - talent, youth, coaching, and most importantly TEAM.

moreover, building a team around kobe is not wise because i doubt any good free agents would want to play with him. thats why i left off malone from the 2nd team.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> lets face it...the last 2 years (no championships), the offense has been centered around kobe.


:laugh: 

In no way, shape, or form was Kobe Bryant the focal point of the offense in 2003 or 2004. He was the first option when a bucket was needed or when a run was needed. For the majority of a game, however, the offense ran through Shaq in 2003 and 2004.

I suggest you hit the books and gametape for more information.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

ehl,

didn't kobe avg like 40+ for 12 straight games last year?? that sure seems like a sign of a first option don't ya think??? 

probably not....you think he's a second option then, and if he was a first he would probably avg 50+ points a game, right?

btw, what do you think about my proposed 04-05 lineup vs the most likely lineup of the lakers??? you still think its a bad idea to trade kobe instead of shaq?

where have all the laker fans gone? i'm gonna assume that the silence means that they agree with me....ooh....that will probably provoke some of you to post something...but if you do, then say something with substance and not like 'you are completely wrong' or give me the shocked faced icon. this place is so silent that all i hear are crickets!! typical laker fans to jump off the bandwagon when their team loses....its not like there's no news to discuss. plenty of laker news going on.


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## Juan (Jun 13, 2002)

The reason Kobe average that much during a span of games was because Shaq did not play, or was not 100%. Phil has said over and over again, the offense runs thru Shaq.


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> where have all the laker fans gone? i'm gonna assume that the silence means that they agree with me....ooh....


You know what happens when you assume, don't you?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> 4 times out of 5 years is...
> ...


Not really = /... Never happened to the Bulls... They went 6 times in 8 years...


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

come on guys...be a sport...tell me which team do you really think is better....team #1 or team #2??


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> come on guys...be a sport...tell me which team do you really think is better....team #1 or team #2??


There "is" no better team because neither will ever exist. Hypothetically, team one would be better if they existed, dont be silly, but it would never happen because Kobe's not gonna sign and trade to Orlando and Orlando isn't gonna take on any of the Lakers other crap in a trade for TMac. Even if the lakers let Kobe go and kept Shaq, the Lakers would not have the cap space or contracts to get Mc Grady when he is a free agent. So your question, as so many of yours often are, is pointless.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

Btw, jc76ers...


your proposed team =


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Not really = /... Never happened to the Bulls... They went 6 times in 8 years...


Your hate is clouding your views again...

4 times in 5 years is very often, only 4 teams have done it. 50s Lakers, 60s Lakers, 60s Celtics and these Lakers.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jstempi,

why don't you think kobe will be a sign and trade with orlando? him and tmac make basicaly make the same amount of money. kobe wants to have his own team where he is the undisputed #1 option. he has that in orlando. the only problem is that lakers have committed to kobe, thats why you hardly hear any trades involving kobe now. but if they didn't, you can bet there would be all these kobe for tmac trade rumors going around.

regarding capspace, i said repeatedly that shaq will take his paycut for mcgrady...of course, thats just speculating, but thats what this board is for isn't it???

i'm glad to hear that you think the lakers would be better off keeping shaq. your only beef is the salary cap...that i can live with and understand...but going over the cap will be worth it if you win numerous championships with shaq and mcgrady...no?

btw, quit being childish and cut back on the personal insults. you just admitted my proposed team is excellent and yet you still put a sleepy face icon on it. huh?!?!?!?!


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jamel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> Your hate is clouding your views again...
> ...


... So you mean to tell me, 6 out of 8 isn't as good as 4 out of 5? Percentage wise it's not but i mean come on... And especially since they had the year off, how could you NOT be excited to be in the Finals... Thats stupidity... It has nothing to do with hate, i would be pissed off if someone on my team said something idiotic like that


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jstempi,
> 
> why don't you think kobe will be a sign and trade with orlando?


I should not have read past this because anyone who thinks a top 5 player would willingly sign with a loser team who is 5 years away from doing anything should not be allowed to post on this site. But read the rest of your post anyway.




> him and tmac make basicaly make the same amount of money. kobe wants to have his own team where he is the undisputed #1 option.


But there is no #2 option. Would you want to play one on five and be the leader of the laughing stock team of the league like TMac was.



> regarding capspace, i said repeatedly that shaq will take his paycut for mcgrady...of course, thats just speculating, but thats what this board is for isn't it???


Maybe Shaq would take a paycut for TMac, maybe not. Your whole plan is flawed anyway, making this point irrelevant because there's no way the Lakers get TMac for Kobe or let Kobe go and get TMac via some other trade. 



> i'm glad to hear that you think the lakers would be better off keeping shaq. your only beef is the salary cap...that i can live with and understand...but going over the cap will be worth it if you win numerous championships with shaq and mcgrady...no?


Again, the mcgrady/shaq thing could never happen for the Lakers. Winning championships is worth going over the cap for the Lakers, but they havent done it the last few years and wont be doing it in the future without Shaq taking a paycut, which he wont. Hence, the current situation.



> btw, quit being childish and cut back on the personal insults. you just admitted my proposed team is excellent and yet you still put a sleepy face icon on it. huh?!?!?!?!


LOL, yes your proposed team is better...to bad it is impossible. The all star teams are excellent too, why didnt you just propose that for next years Laker team?

BTW, I didn't say it was excellent. If you are one that buys into the TMac = Kobe then your proposed team loses like they have the past two years.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> come on guys...be a sport...tell me which team do you really think is better....team #1 or team #2??


Just to point it out, NOBODY hear wants to deal with Dallas unless they're willing to part with Dirk.. SO there goes your whole arguement.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> now lets look at the lineup that you most of you laker fans want if you cater to kobe's needs.


WTF?! Uhh...no!:no: 

Nobody wants Pavel, Walker and Nash for Shaq! All of us say, "No Dirk, no Shaq."


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Geez, I missed this the first time I read your post...



> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> with the first team, they got it all - talent, youth, coaching, and most importantly TEAM.


Youth?! What?!! T-Mac is like the same age as Kobe, and everyone was calling the Lakers "old" this season. 

And I still can't get over this bull - Walker, Nash and Pavel for Shaq?! HA! No one is stupid enough to do that.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

hov,


> Just to point it out, NOBODY hear wants to deal with Dallas unless they're willing to part with Dirk.. SO there goes your whole arguement.


well...then i have to ask....does it look like the mavs want to part with dirk?? no! so i put down the most likely trade scenario that will happen IF shaq is traded. mavs aren't budging and lakers don't want to budge....but with the amount of waves that shaq is causing, it seems more and more likely that he will get traded. this is the closest deal i have heard for shaq...hence, i put it in.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jstempi,



> I should not have read past this because anyone who thinks a top 5 player would willingly sign with a loser team who is 5 years away from doing anything should not be allowed to post on this site. But read the rest of your post anyway.


if you do not know by now that kobe is just dying to be the main man on his own team, then you really do not your hero at all. he will be willing to go to a losing team as long as he is the main guy and the run things his way.



> Would you want to play one on five and be the leader of the laughing stock team of the league like TMac was.


kobe would...see above....its also evident in the finals, or have you forgotten about that painful memory already? the guy jacked up shots that no one wanted him to take so it costs them the title, so thats why phil got the hell out...why can't you guys see this???? oh sure, kobe shouldn't shoulder all the blame, but its gotta be either him or shaq since they are the stars, and kobe just really really stunk!! i don't know why you guys cannot see the selfish side of kobe????



> Your whole plan is flawed anyway, making this point irrelevant because there's no way the Lakers get TMac for Kobe or let Kobe go and get TMac via some other trade.


let me ask you...who's a better player? I will bet you will say kobe right? so he then has a greater market value. why won't orlando trade for a better player straight up??? you don't think he's just a better player, he's MUCH better - defense, hustle, clutch....am i right? so based on this thinking, orlando should be jumping on this trade if its straight up! tmac has already said he wants to play with shaq. it looks like a match made in heaven!


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> let me ask you...who's a better player? I will bet you will say kobe right? so he then has a greater market value. why won't orlando trade for a better player straight up??? you don't think he's just a better player, he's MUCH better - defense, hustle, clutch....am i right? so based on this thinking, orlando should be jumping on this trade if its straight up! tmac has already said he wants to play with shaq. it looks like a match made in heaven!


You have no idea what you're talking about. Kobe has legal problems right now, so the Magic aren't going to take the risk of trading Tracy McGrady for him. The Magic want to fill multiple positions by trading McGrady, and Kupchak has said that he isn't going to sign and trade Kobe.

Please don't start up more Kobe/T-Mac crap. Just leave, you don't know what you're talking about.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> hov,
> 
> 
> well...then i have to ask....does it look like the mavs want to part with dirk?? no! so i put down the most likely trade scenario that will happen IF shaq is traded. mavs aren't budging and lakers don't want to budge....but with the amount of waves that shaq is causing, it seems more and more likely that he will get traded. this is the closest deal i have heard for shaq...hence, i put it in.


If the Mavs won't part with Dirk, I'm confident the Lakers wont trade Shaq to Dallas.

But like we said in this thread:
http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100977&pagenumber=3
We'll just have to wait and see.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jstempi,
> 
> if you do not know by now that kobe is just dying to be the main man on his own team, then you really do not your hero at all. he will be willing to go to a losing team as long as he is the main guy and the run things his way.


He could do this with the Clips or Suns, who have decent players. Why go to the worst team in the L that has a load of crap for starters. 



> kobe would...see above....its also evident in the finals, or have you forgotten about that painful memory already? the guy jacked up shots that no one wanted him to take so it costs them the title, so thats why phil got the hell out...why can't you guys see this???? oh sure, kobe shouldn't shoulder all the blame, but its gotta be either him or shaq since they are the stars, and kobe just really really stunk!! i don't know why you guys cannot see the selfish side of kobe????


So Kobe trying to get involved in the finals to no avail means he would gladly go to a team where he can easily be triple teamed the whole game because the rest of his team sucks. Makes sense to me.



> let me ask you...who's a better player? I will bet you will say kobe right? so he then has a greater market value. why won't orlando trade for a better player straight up??? you don't think he's just a better player, he's MUCH better - defense, hustle, clutch....am i right? so based on this thinking, orlando should be jumping on this trade if its straight up! tmac has already said he wants to play with shaq. it looks like a match made in heaven!


Childish, asking me a question, that is off topic by the way, and then assuming my answer.  Umm, hello buddy, did you not know Kobe has to agree to a sign and trade? Even if Orlando wanted to do the swap, Kobe would have to be willing. I'm guessing that since TMac's a rocket that Kobe didnt want to go to Orlando.  So your argument is gone. Give it up man.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jstempi,



> He could do this with the Clips or Suns, who have decent players. Why go to the worst team in the L that has a load of crap for starters.


okay fine..i could make another laker team that involved a trade with the clips or suns...BUT i was doing the orlando trade as a best interest to the Lakers. why can't you see that? come on..would you rather have tmac on the lakers or brand/magette or johnson/marion. i don't know about you but i'd take tmac. and i'm sure most laker fans would too. i think your problem is that I am trying to 'hate' on the lakers, yet its their best choice..



> So Kobe trying to get involved in the finals to no avail means he would gladly go to a team where he can easily be triple teamed the whole game because the rest of his team sucks. Makes sense to me


according to you laker fans, thats exactly what happened in the finals, and you don't see kobe hesitating any shots....want me to find a quote on that???



> Childish, asking me a question, that is off topic by the way, and then assuming my answer. Umm, hello buddy, did you not know Kobe has to agree to a sign and trade? Even if Orlando wanted to do the swap, Kobe would have to be willing. I'm guessing that since TMac's a rocket that Kobe didnt want to go to Orlando. So your argument is gone. Give it up man.


if i am wrong, then why don't you comment on it??? does kobe have more value than tmac?? 
i already commented on the sign and trade but i'll do it again. nah...actually i won't...too much work repeating the same thing since for some reason you can't seem to comprehend. just look at my previous postings
tmacs not a rocket unless news came out today since i can't access sports sites now...and even if tmacs a rocket now, how do you know kobe doesn't want to go to orlando? lakers probably turned down the trade since they are so idiotically high on kobe...which is the basis of my whole argument.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jstempi,
> 
> okay fine..i could make another laker team that involved a trade with the clips or suns...BUT i was doing the orlando trade as a best interest to the Lakers. why can't you see that? come on..would you rather have tmac on the lakers or brand/magette or johnson/marion. i don't know about you but i'd take tmac. and i'm sure most laker fans would too. i think your problem is that I am trying to 'hate' on the lakers, yet its their best choice..


The problem that you continue to fail to realize is that TMac coming to LA is/was an impossibility. So there is/was no point in even "doing the orlando trade."

Lets pretend for a moment that Kobe wanted to go to Orlando with all the losers and the trade happened. Wait, it still is impossible because the whole problem is that Shaq wont take a paycut. So get over it, your whole idea is pointless.



> according to you laker fans, thats exactly what happened in the finals, and you don't see kobe hesitating any shots....want me to find a quote on that???


And you point is???? Man you are so lost. My point was that you are ridiculous for twisting that into Kobe being willing to go to a crappy team where he'd be taken out of every game because he'd be triple teamed every time he touched the ball due to his teammates sucking so bad that they dont need to be defended. Sorry about the very long sentence but I figured if I rambled on it would make more sense to you since that seems to be your style.



> if i am wrong, then why don't you comment on it??? does kobe have more value than tmac??


It is irrelevant and off topic, I didnt say you are right or wrong. Why do you want to turn this into another TMac < Kobe or Kobe < TMac debate? Get a life!!! All I said is that it is irrelevant because Kobe would have to agree to a sign and trade, and since yur loverboy is now a rocket, apparently Kobe wasnt interested.



> i already commented on the sign and trade but i'll do it again. nah...actually i won't...too much work repeating the same thing since for some reason you can't seem to comprehend. just look at my previous postings


You are the one lacking reading comprehension skills here. You assume Kobe would be all for it, and apparently he was not because TMac's a rocket.



> tmacs not a rocket unless news came out today since i can't access sports sites now...and even if tmacs a rocket now, how do you know kobe doesn't want to go to orlando? lakers probably turned down the trade since they are so idiotically high on kobe...which is the basis of my whole argument.


How can you access this website to post your worthless ramblings and not be able to pull up hoopshype.com, nba.com or anything else. How 'bout turning on the radio or educating yourself on the daily events before posting moronic assumptions that make you look the fool because the TMac trade has indeed been finalized. :sigh: And if Kobe wanted to go to Orlando and the Lakers held their ground on not sign-and-trading him, he'd have told Orlando not to trade McGrady yet and work out a sign-and-trade with some other team once the free agent signings can start in a few days. For example, since Utah is under the cap, Utah signs Kobe and trades him to Orlando for TMac. Goodness, you just dont have a clue do you?


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jstempi,



> The problem that you continue to fail to realize is that TMac coming to LA is/was an impossibility. So there is/was no point in even "doing the orlando trade."


how is it impossible?? you just like to make stuff up don't you?? they both make approximately the same amount of money?? so tell me, how is it impossible??? 



> Lets pretend for a moment that Kobe wanted to go to Orlando with all the losers and the trade happened. Wait, it still is impossible because the whole problem is that Shaq wont take a paycut. So get over it, your whole idea is pointless.


again you make no sense...you do realize you can go over the cap when you resign your own players?? 




> And you point is???? Man you are so lost. My point was that you are ridiculous for twisting that into Kobe being willing to go to a crappy team where he'd be taken out of every game because he'd be triple teamed every time he touched the ball due to his teammates sucking so bad that they dont need to be defended. Sorry about the very long sentence but I figured if I rambled on it would make more sense to you since that seems to be your style.


no man, you are lost because you can't understand a simple thing. i'll break it down for you since your logic is not very good.

premise - kobe wants his own team and doesn't mind the triple teams as long as he is 'the man'
proof - nba finals. according to you, he was triple teamed, but still decided not to pass the ball. all this at the expense of winning. 
more explanation for you - orlando is a crappy team. he's gonna get triple teamed. since he didn't mind in the finals, he won't mind in orlando.

if you still don't understand, then i really don't know what to say...you will never get it.



> It is irrelevant and off topic, I didnt say you are right or wrong. Why do you want to turn this into another TMac < Kobe or Kobe < TMac debate? Get a life!!! All I said is that it is irrelevant because Kobe would have to agree to a sign and trade, and since yur loverboy is now a rocket, apparently Kobe wasnt interested.


its not irrelevant because i explained why kobe WOULD agree to a sign and trade. you still don't get it do you? sigh!
and dude, your the one thats making it into a tmac/kobe thing. all i said is that tmac is the best trade bait out there and you think its a comparison of tmac and kobe. hahahahaa! you are so sensitive to that topic aren't you. its also funny how you refer tmac as loverboy....i know kobe is yours!! why else would you defend the guy so much despite my trade proposals that make the lakers a better team? 



> You are the one lacking reading comprehension skills here. You assume Kobe would be all for it, and apparently he was not because TMac's a rocket.


now i know for sure that you lack logic. yeah, i assumed kobe would be for it and i backed it up with some facts. but just because tmacs a rocket now doesn't necessarily mean kobe didn't want to be in orlando. orlando probably didn't want to trade tmac for that overrated jailbait. you ever thought about that??? ooohhh....thats one thing you didn't think about huh?? 
but knowing you, you probably still don't get it. because tmacs a rocket now, does NOT necessarily mean kobe wasn't for it!



> How can you access this website to post your worthless ramblings and not be able to pull up hoopshype.com, nba.com or anything else. How 'bout turning on the radio or educating yourself on the daily events before posting


apparantly *no need for insults* have you ever heard of a firewall?? its this thing that blocks some websites off from viewing. so fyi, hoopshype.com, nba.com was blocked out. and i can't turn on the radio while at work. which is proabbly something that you don't do since you are so illogical, and lack reading comprehension that i'm not sure if anyone would even hire you.

well..tmacs on the rockets now, so too bad for the lakers. it looks like they will be stuck with a starting lineup of nash, payton, pavel, kobe, and george. that'll maybe get them at best a 6th seed in the west.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jstempi,
> 
> how is it impossible?? you just like to make stuff up don't you?? they both make approximately the same amount of money?? so tell me, how is it impossible???


Because TMac has been traded to Houston!!! And even before the trade happened, Kobe would have to have wanted to go for the trade to occur, and clearly that is not what Kobe wanted. Get over it.



> again you make no sense...you do realize you can go over the cap when you resign your own players??


Do you not know that Buss does not want to go that far over the cap to sign Shaq?? Plus, the CAP is a secondary issue in regards to Shaq, Buss doesn't want to pay that to an injury prone player who doesn't show up until the playoffs and may not have any gas left by the time the extension kicks in.



> premise - kobe wants his own team and doesn't mind the triple teams as long as he is 'the man'
> proof - nba finals. according to you, he was triple teamed, but still decided not to pass the ball. all this at the expense of winning.
> more explanation for you - orlando is a crappy team. he's gonna get triple teamed. since he didn't mind in the finals, he won't mind in orlando.


How do you know he was fine with it? Maybe that happening in the finals pissed him off so he'd never want it to happen again and thats why he's still entertaining offers from other teams in case the Lakers dont get anything good in return for Shaq and LA becomes the next Orlando. Besides, its one thing to lose to a great defensive team in the finals and its another thing to lose to the worst teams in the league all year long and not make it to the playoffs. Do you really think Kobe wants his own team so bad that he is willing to not see the playoffs for the next five years? You are dreaming.



> its not irrelevant because i explained why kobe WOULD agree to a sign and trade. you still don't get it do you? sigh!


No, i dont get why you want to turn this into a Kobe Tmac debate. You did not explain why Kobe would agree to a sign and trade. You claimed he would and I shot your theory down and you cannot adequatly defend your claim by quashing my argument. Sigh all you want, but the FACT is that if Kobe wanted to be in Orlando, Tmac would not be in Houston.



> and dude, your the one thats making it into a tmac/kobe thing.


Umm, no. Even Damian came in here and asked you not to turn it into a Kobe Tmac debate. You are the guilty party.



> all i said is that tmac is the best trade bait out there and you think its a comparison of tmac and kobe. hahahahaa!


Let me provide you with your quote where you began to try and start a Tmac Kobe debate:



> let me ask you...who's a better player? I will bet you will say kobe right? so he then has a greater market value. why won't orlando trade for a better player straight up??? you don't think he's just a better player, he's MUCH better - defense, hustle, clutch....am i right?


There you go. You started to compare them. So no, saying that tmac is the best trade out there is NOT all you said. Besides, its not the best trade out there anyway because it was an impossibility. You cant trade Kobe to Orlando if he doesnt want to go, like I've said 100 times now.



> you are so sensitive to that topic aren't you. its also funny how you refer tmac as loverboy....i know kobe is yours!! why else would you defend the guy so much despite my trade proposals that make the lakers a better team?


I referred to him as your loverboy. And I am not defending Kobe at all, just saying that your trade proposal is dumb.



> now i know for sure that you lack logic. yeah, i assumed kobe would be for it and i backed it up with some facts.


"Facts" do not equal assumptions, there is a difference between the two words.



> but just because tmacs a rocket now doesn't necessarily mean kobe didn't want to be in orlando. orlando probably didn't want to trade tmac for that overrated jailbait.


Why not, if Tmac was going to leave anyway? Kobe's not going to jail, as anyone with any legal knowledge can see. Everyone else in the league is going after him. I guess Orlando are the only stupid ones not interested. Of course Orlando would much rather get a few years of Francis than 6 years of Kobe :laugh:. Do you really think Kobe < Steve Francis? :laugh:



> you ever thought about that??? ooohhh....thats one thing you didn't think about huh?? but knowing you, you probably still don't get it. because tmacs a rocket now, does NOT necessarily mean kobe wasn't for it!


:Laugh: As you can clearly see, you have been shot down once again. Of course Orlando would rather have had Kobe than Francis.

Keep digging you grave buddy, you look like a fool pretending that you came up with some ingenious, infallible response to my argument.



> have you ever heard of a firewall?? its this thing that blocks some websites off from viewing.


Okay, so you can get BB.net but not foxsports, espn, nba.com, latimes.com, or any other city's newspaper's sports section online? No need to lie, just admit you did not do your homework before you posted.



> so fyi, hoopshype.com, nba.com was blocked out. and i can't turn on the radio while at work.


If you have the internet you can. Most radio stations have a way to listen via the internet. If on the otherhand your boss does not allow it, then maybe you should listen to the radio news before you get to work to update yourself before you spout nonsensical, outdated information...besides, its not like someone posted that the trade was finalized on this very website...maybe you should have checked here before you posted. :laugh: Again, painted into another corner aren't you? :laugh:



> which is proabbly something that you don't do since you are so illogical, and lack reading comprehension that i'm not sure if anyone would even hire you.


Umm, you dont need good reading comprehension to listen to the radio. :laugh: Man you are so flustered. And yes, i do work and probably make 3 times what you do if your employer is so restrictive that they dont let you have the radio on while you work. Counting my blessings, I just bought a $425,000 home, so I do make good money. And I'd ask you to point out one instance where I have been illogical. I think we are both being logical here, you are just making inaccurate assumptions.



> well..tmacs on the rockets now, so too bad for the lakers. it looks like they will be stuck with a starting lineup of nash, payton, pavel, kobe, and george. that'll maybe get them at best a 6th seed in the west.


It is too bad for the Lakers, but not that they didn't get Tmac, since that was impossible. And that will not be their lineup, if it were they wouldnt have the 8th seed in the west. Pavel is not gonna start with anyone and the lakers wont trade Dallas for that crap. Besides, what do you care? Your 76ers lineup will look like :

pg crap
sg AI
sf crap
pf crap
c crap


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

The insults and name calling needs to stop or this thread will be closed.

Telling a member they are dumb or ignorant, as well as insults like "little boy" are not allowed. Thanks.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sean</b>!
> The insults and name calling needs to stop or this thread will be closed.
> 
> Telling a member they are dumb or ignorant, as well as insults like "little boy" are not allowed. Thanks.


I cleaned up my post deleting the personal attacks. However, i never said he was dumb, just his proposal so I left that in.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jstempi,



> Because TMac has been traded to Houston!!! And even before the trade happened, Kobe would have to have wanted to go for the trade to occur, and clearly that is not what Kobe wanted. Get over it.


tmac wasn't traded to houston when you started to say that the trade was impossible!! and i already explained the reasons for kobe wantiing to go to ANY other team. 



> Do you not know that Buss does not want to go that far over the cap to sign Shaq?? Plus, the CAP is a secondary issue in regards to Shaq, Buss doesn't want to pay that to an injury prone player who doesn't show up until the playoffs and may not have any gas left by the time the extension kicks in.


okay now your at least making some sense. if you think its not worth it to go over the cap...fine. i can buy that. but thats not what you said earlier



> Winning championships is worth going over the cap for the Lakers, but they havent done it the last few years and wont be doing it in the future without Shaq taking a paycut, which he wont. Hence, the current situation.


looks like a contradiction to me.



> Do you really think Kobe wants his own team so bad that he is willing to not see the playoffs for the next five years? You are dreaming.


yes, i do....i have been saying that for the past couple of posts and i already explained why....tired of explaining it.



> No, i dont get why you want to turn this into a Kobe Tmac debate. You did not explain why Kobe would agree to a sign and trade. You claimed he would and I shot your theory down and you cannot adequatly defend your claim by quashing my argument. Sigh all you want, but the FACT is that if Kobe wanted to be in Orlando, Tmac would not be in Houston.


yes i did explain...numerous times...you just don't get it.



> Umm, no. Even Damian came in here and asked you not to turn it into a Kobe Tmac debate. You are the guilty party.





> There you go. You started to compare them. So no, saying that tmac is the best trade out there is NOT all you said. Besides, its not the best trade out there anyway because it was an impossibility. You cant trade Kobe to Orlando if he doesnt want to go, like I've said 100 times now.


dude...all i did was justify my argument for trading for tmac....and that requires me to mention tmac....according to you, i then cannot even mention tmac or kobe in the same sentence or otherwise this becames a 'tmac/kobe' debate....and thats just ridiculous. and judging from damians past postings, he seems to be a big kobe fan. kobe fans are just very sensitive when it comes to tmac vs. kobe. and i can guarantee you there was no intention to make this into a tmac/kobe thread...its about criticizing laker management for doing the wrong thing, but you sensitive kobe fans turn it into kobe vs tmac because they were mentioned in the same sentence...hahaha!!



> Okay, so you can get BB.net but not foxsports, espn, nba.com, latimes.com, or any other city's newspaper's sports section online? No need to lie, just admit you did not do your homework before you posted.


yeah...i get bb.net and now the other sports sites. its cuz the administrators at work haven't figured out bb.net is a sports site yet. and in case you don't know...the tmac trade was announced just around the time i posted. i ain't gonna check on other websites every 20 minutes or so just to be updated on sports. i got more of a life unlike you who think it shouldt be required.



> Why not, if Tmac was going to leave anyway? Kobe's not going to jail, as anyone with any legal knowledge can see. Everyone else in the league is going after him. I guess Orlando are the only stupid ones not interested. Of course Orlando would much rather get a few years of Francis than 6 years of Kobe . Do you really think Kobe < Steve Francis?


who in the league is going after kobe currently??? i haven't heard anything. u know why? cuz lakers adamantly state that they will do what it takes to sign kobe. and you don't know if kobe's going to jail or not...the trial hasn't even started yet. and orlando got ripped off big time in that tmac francis trade, fyi.



> :Laugh: As you can clearly see, you have been shot down once again. Of course Orlando would rather have had Kobe than Francis.


prove it....where are the articles?? kobe could possible be in jail...no way in hell orlando gives up a franchise player for jailboy. but apparantly you and numerous kobe fans think they would, thats why i proposed a kobe for tmac trade instead of trading shaq for the betterment of the lakers and asked what everyone thought...oh shoot..i just mentioned kobe and tmac in the same sentence...man! i guess this thread automatically turns into kobe vs. tmac again, right?

i gotta get back to work....will comment more later.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jstempi,
> tmac wasn't traded to houston when you started to say that the trade was impossible!! and i already explained the reasons for kobe wantiing to go to ANY other team.


Well the rumors of the trade would not have even existed if Kobe wanted to be in Orlando.



> okay now your at least making some sense. if you think its not worth it to go over the cap...fine. i can buy that. but thats not what you said earlier


Well I didn't think I had to state the obvious.



> looks like a contradiction to me.


Nope, you are just confused.



> yes, i do....i have been saying that for the past couple of posts and i already explained why....tired of explaining it.


Then you are dreaming. Kobe feeds off of winning and would leave just like Tmac is.



> yes i did explain...numerous times...you just don't get it.


Lol, you are so confused. I'm saying that you didnt explain why he WOULD agree to a sign and trade, what you did was explain why you think he would agree to it. I explained why I think he wouldn't and since he didn't, I was right and you were wrong.



> dude...all i did was justify my argument for trading for tmac....and that requires me to mention tmac....according to you, i then cannot even mention tmac or kobe in the same sentence or otherwise this becames a 'tmac/kobe' debate....and thats just ridiculous.


No, it was when you began to compare their skills.



> and judging from damians past postings, he seems to be a big kobe fan. kobe fans are just very sensitive when it comes to tmac vs. kobe. and i can guarantee you there was no intention to make this into a tmac/kobe thread...its about criticizing laker management for doing the wrong thing, but you sensitive kobe fans turn it into kobe vs tmac because they were mentioned in the same sentence...hahaha!!


While you were researching Damians past posts did you happen to notice that Shaq is my favorite player, not Kobe? Goodness you have no clue.



> yeah...i get bb.net and now the other sports sites. its cuz the administrators at work haven't figured out bb.net is a sports site yet. and in case you don't know...the tmac trade was announced just around the time i posted. i ain't gonna check on other websites every 20 minutes or so just to be updated on sports. i got more of a life unlike you who think it shouldt be required.


Well, it takes two seconds to look at the nba forum on this site and check the status of the tmac trade rumors before you make a dumb tmac to the lakers proposal. Any reasonable poster would check that before making such a crazy claim that the Lakers could get tmac.



> who in the league is going after kobe currently??? i haven't heard anything. u know why? cuz lakers adamantly state that they will do what it takes to sign kobe.


Umm, if you haven't heard the rumors, ask BigAmare about the suns getting Kobe, the clippers wanting him (look at NBA.com when you get home) and many other teams. Local news is reporting he has meetings set up with several teams in the next few days. 



> and you don't know if kobe's going to jail or not...the trial hasn't even started yet. and orlando got ripped off big time in that tmac francis trade, fyi.


I dont know, nobody does except maybe Ms. Cleo. Again, the trial hasnt even started but many teams are apparently willing to take the risk. 



> prove it....where are the articles??


LOL, its common sense. And besides, there are no articles because it was never going to happen, hence no rumors not nothin...which not only proves my point that Kobe didnt want to go, but that it was impossible.



> kobe could possible be in jail...no way in hell orlando gives up a franchise player for jailboy.


Gives up? To my knowledge they had no choice, Tmac wanted out. And calling Kobe names like that just shows you are a Kobe hater, and cannot be reasonable.



> but apparantly you and numerous kobe fans think they would, thats why i proposed a kobe for tmac trade instead of trading shaq for the betterment of the lakers and asked what everyone thought...oh shoot..i just mentioned kobe and tmac in the same sentence...man! i guess this thread automatically turns into kobe vs. tmac again, right?


We appreciate your concern for the lakers and your desire to make the lakers better by proposing impossible trades, but why not just propose that the NBA do an expansion-like draft for the lakers and allow the lakers to select any player they want without having to follow the salary cap rules?



> i gotta get back to work....will comment more later.


Why, do you like taking a beating?


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jstempi,

it looks like you will forever be blinded by kobe and are beyond help and reason...i guess we can just agree to disagree. your [a] laker fan that causes non-laker fans to hate the lakers. 



> Why, do you like taking a beating?


nah, i'm just tired of talking to unreasonable people that can't think logically, make things up, can't prove anything, and think their 425,000 homes is some big feat. since your such a big kobe fan, you must live in LA. do you realize that the median home price in california is over $450,000 now? so i wouldn't go around bragging since you were below the median. nevertheless, its still not bad. 

your signature shows signs of you being a republican....but you sure don't seem like one. you like to twist facts around, and can't seem to understand some simple reasoning - just like the democrats.

i'm tired of going back and forth with you all the time since i realize you will never get it now. until you understand my simple points, this is going to be my last response on this thread. i'll give you the pleasure of getting the last post so you can think that maybe you are actually winning.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jstempi,
> 
> it looks like you will forever be blinded by kobe and are beyond help and reason...i guess we can just agree to disagree. your [a] laker fan that causes non-laker fans to hate the lakers.


:laugh:

We can agree you were wrong. But hey, maybe we can sign and trade Kobe for Stevie Franchise so Kobe can go to Orlando!!!! :laugh:



> nah, i'm just tired of talking to unreasonable people that can't think logically, make things up, can't prove anything,


You still haven't shown where I have been illogical. We both made things up, we ARE both speculating after all even though you have been proven to be ultimately wrong. And I didn't have to prove anything, it was proven for me, your boyfriend TMac's in Houston. 



> and think their 425,000 homes is some big feat. since your such a big kobe fan, you must live in LA. do you realize that the median home price in california is over $450,000 now? so i wouldn't go around bragging since you were below the median. nevertheless, its still not bad.



Its not a biggy, I was just using it to indicate how you were wrong about me and my economic and occupational situation. There is no need to be jealous, I'm sure living with your parents is nice too. BTW, the median price for a home in cali is actually $465,000 as of a few days ago and where I live (inland empire) the average is $292,000 because we are 35 miles east of LA which explains the lower costs not being as close to LA. Check this article:

Link 

And I said I just bought a $425,000 house. It is now valued at $505,000 based on recent sales, so i guess I'm okay by your standards.

And Im not a big Kobe fan, another of the one hundred incorrect assumptions you have made.



> your signature shows signs of you being a republican....but you sure don't seem like one. you like to twist facts around, and can't seem to understand some simple reasoning - just like the democrats.


Now that was funny, I'll give you props on that one.



> i'm tired of going back and forth with you all the time since i realize you will never get it now. until you understand my simple points, this is going to be my last response on this thread. i'll give you the pleasure of getting the last post so you can think that maybe you are actually winning.


Woo hoo. I won!!!


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