# With the 5th pick in the 2006 NBA Draft, the Toronto Raptors select...



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

The top four appears to be fairly established in no particular order. Rudy Gay, Adam Morrison, Andrea Bargnani, and LaMarcus Aldridge appear to be the four players occupying those spots.

There is a distinct possibility that the Raps don't get a shot at any of them.

Here is my question to you.

If those four went in the top four as expected, AND you HAD to use the 5th pick on a player, who would be your choice?

There are no wrong answers, but don't get caught up too much in the mocks. If you like a guy that NBAdraft.net has at 8, 9 or 10 or whatever, just pick him. This is about YOUR pick not your interpretation of their mock.


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

I think potential and position wise Rodney Carney would be the choice to make. I think they will take a shooting guard which leaves Carney, Redick, Brewer as the top options. Im a fan of Hassan Adams though so if they went for the best player available with the 1st rounder and were able to get a wing who could crack the rotation with the 2nd pick it would be great.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

^^ i agree, rodney carney is very underrated


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Surprise, surprise.

Given the Raptors as of Feb 20th, 2006 are ranked:

30th in overall rebounds per game (37.6)
29th in rebound differential (-2.8)
30th in blocks per game (3.2) 

given that I think he can defend centres, given the value I put on rebounding and defense, and that I see him projecting toward the better side of his NBA comparisons, I would select Shelden Williams with the 5th overall pick. 


(Roll eyes now)


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Surprise, surprise.
> 
> Given the Raptors as of Feb 20th, 2006 are ranked:
> 
> ...


 :cheers: 

at least you didn't say Reddick.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Benis007 said:


> :cheers:
> 
> at least you didn't say Reddick.



I did not create this post to ***** about why other people are not picking Shelden. But when I make my choice I want to back it up with some reasons. While I like JJ a lot and hope he proves his detractors wrong, I think there is really only one choice for us outside of the top 4. As a commodity, rebounders not 5s, not 4s, rebounders who can block shots are rare. We just happen to be really short on both. 

While it is a "need" I also think he would be the BPA. But that's me, I'm not swayed by the hype of "potential" or "upside". Those things are important, but Darko, Skita, Kwame and other have shown us that "huge upside" without ANY proven ability v. top level talent can lead to huge failures. At the same time, I think it is retarded to think that any college senior has necessarily plateaued or peaked.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I got ****ted on as well when I said I liked Sheldon. I saw him play a few weekends ago and I think he's the type of player the raps need. A player who rebounds, does all the little thing on the defensive end. I don't think we need an offensive presence that much. Bosh can do that and we have Eva too. We need defence. If we can have somebody that can take care of other team's C, Bosh wouldn't get tired as fast and can focus more on the offensive end.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Dee-Zy said:


> I got ****ted on as well when I said I liked Sheldon. I saw him play a few weekends ago and I think he's the type of player the raps need. A player who rebounds, does all the little thing on the defensive end. I don't think we need an offensive presence that much. Bosh can do that and we have Eva too. We need defence. If we can have somebody that can take care of other team's C, Bosh wouldn't get tired as fast and can focus more on the offensive end.


You did not get **** on. We laughed because you made it sound like you were the first to mention him as a potential Raptor. I was touting him last year as a Junior before he decided to stay for his Senior year at Duke. We were not laughing at your assertion, simply that you thought you were A) first and B) alone.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

I would pick Sheldon Williams as well, at 5th. But first I would look for opportunities to trade up or down. 

I think Babcock's biggest mistake at the last draft was not trading up to get Chris Paul. The #3 pick was there for the taking and we didn't take it. The Raptors would be in much better shape if they had Paul right now, instead of CV and Graham. CV is working out well, but Paul is a star at a critical position who has the Hornets in a playoff position. The Hornets who in the preseason many considered to be a worse team than the Raptors.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I like Williams, but if Aldrige is still on the board, bring the Texas Two Step to Toronto.

TTTTTTT


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

A lot will hinge on who "breaks-out" in the tournament. Some guys will step up next month and enter the top-10 range.

It also depends on our free agent goals, too. If we think we can sign someone like Nene than we can probably make due with the frontcourt we have--we wouldn't be desperate to sign a rookie big. Give us more wiggle room to take the BPA.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I am hearing a lot about Nene in trade talks on insidehoops.com


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

Do everything humanly possible to move up in the draft to get a top 3 pick. We need Gay//Morrison//Aldridge.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

I would like Foye to be in the mix. He's not a traditional point guard but I like to believe he has no problem transferring onto either of the two guard positions. Alot is depending on this year's tournament, but he may turn out to be a mini-Dwyane Wade.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Ballyhoo said:


> I would pick Sheldon Williams as well, at 5th. But first I would look for opportunities to trade up or down.
> 
> I think Babcock's biggest mistake at the last draft was not trading up to get Chris Paul. The #3 pick was there for the taking and we didn't take it. The Raptors would be in much better shape if they had Paul right now, instead of CV and Graham. CV is working out well, but Paul is a star at a critical position who has the Hornets in a playoff position. The Hornets who in the preseason many considered to be a worse team than the Raptors.


An interesting aside indeed. Would 7 and 16 have gotten it done? What was the PDX deal, 3 for 5 and a future 1st. Would Martell Webster have lasted to 7? I think so. Did PDX like anyone else at 16? They ended up trading for Jarrett Jack later in the draft. 

Supposedly Rob really liked ONE of the top four from what I remember. Of course he would not say. Chances are he would have made the deal were HIS guy available. I guess Paul was not HIS guy. Or there was no deal to be made.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

blowuptheraptors said:


> You did not get **** on. We laughed because you made it sound like you were the first to mention him as a potential Raptor. I was touting him last year as a Junior before he decided to stay for his Senior year at Duke. We were not laughing at your assertion, simply that you thought you were A) first and B) alone.





I never thought I was the first to say it, nor did I think I was alone. I just thought that it was an unpopular opinion given his lack of size and how ppl say he's a PF (or would be at the nba level anyways) and we are over stacked at the 4.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Surprise, surprise.
> 
> Given the Raptors as of Feb 20th, 2006 are ranked:
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you've said, but replace Williams with Splitter. He's bigger and has played against tougher competition, and IMO, will be the better 5 between the two.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

The_Notic said:


> Do everything humanly possible to move up in the draft to get a top 3 pick. We need Gay//Morrison//Aldridge.



The cost is the 5 and CV3. You balk at this and use your pick on the remaining available draftees. Which one would that be?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

shookem said:


> I agree with everything you've said, but replace Williams with Splitter. He's bigger and has played against tougher competition, and IMO, will be the better 5 between the two.


Fair enough. But I will say their competition is apples and oranges. I would take a lot of NCAA teams over most of Splitters' competition.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Dee-Zy said:


> I never thought I was the first to say it, nor did I think I was alone. I just thought that it was an unpopular opinion given his lack of size and how ppl say he's a PF (or would be at the nba level anyways) and we are over stacked at the 4.





Dee-Zy said:


> I watched Sheldon play last weekend, *and I might be the only one who thinks this* but I think he would be a nice fit for the raps.
> 
> He looks like a good defender to me, that hustles hard and does all the little thing in the post. Exactly what we need.


...


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Fair enough. But I will say their competition is apples and oranges. I would take a lot of NCAA teams over most of Splitters' competition.


It certainly is, personally IMO Euroleague is far better than 80% of NCAA teams. Sure you've got the Dukes and the UConn's, but after that college ball can get a little weak.

This isn't the case against Williams, as he plays against solid competition. But someone like Morrison could take a big hit, because of the division he plays in. This is less of a worry when choosing Euroleague players. Hoffa played against poles and that made him look good. That is not the case when playing in the second most competitive league in the world.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

shookem said:


> It certainly is, personally IMO Euroleague is far better than 80% of NCAA teams. Sure you've got the Dukes and the UConn's, but after that college ball can get a little weak.
> 
> This isn't the case against Williams, as he plays against solid competition. But someone like Morrison could take a big hit, because of the division he plays in. This is less of a worry when choosing Euroleague players. Hoffa played against poles and that made him look good. That is not the case when playing in the second most competitive league in the world.



It would certainly be a ballsy pick in this market given the attitude toward Brazilian centres. Hopefully, the pick will be marked on its own merits, not some rediculous stereotype.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> It would certainly be a ballsy pick in this market given the attitude toward Brazilian centres. Hopefully, the pick will be marked on its own merits, not some rediculous stereotype.


Which is strange because the last Brazilian centre we picked was a ballsy move.

Either way, they need to get big and defensive. BYU is miles away from Tau and light-years beneath them.

I certainly hope that stereotypes don't play a role in choosing the next piece of the puzzle.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> An interesting aside indeed. Would 7 and 16 have gotten it done? What was the PDX deal, 3 for 5 and a future 1st. Would Martell Webster have lasted to 7? I think so. Did PDX like anyone else at 16? They ended up trading for Jarrett Jack later in the draft.


The deal was 3 for 6 and 28, and a conditional future 1st. I think 7 and 16 is significantly better than 6 and 28, especially since, as you say, Webster would have been there at 7th, and if need be we could have thrown in a second or Denver's 1st.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Ballyhoo said:


> The deal was 3 for 6 and 28, and a conditional future 1st. I think 7 and 16 is significantly better than 6 and 28, especially since, as you say, Webster would have been there at 7th, and if need be we could have thrown in a second or Denver's 1st.



Right. Clearly, 7 and 16 is better. Obviously Paul nor Deron were overly covetted by Rob. It must have been Marvin or Bogut.

I don't know that there is much in the Top 4 to get overly excited about, yet. LaMarcus seems kinda soft to me. I'll have to wait on Morrison. Gay could be amazing, but I want to see him come pressure as well.

Now that we don't have a second pick, I think it is important that Wayne aggressively look for one before the deadline. Maybe we will need to move up.

However, in the spirit of the thread, post your fifth picks should you have to use them.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

If we can't get Aldridge, as I've mentioned before, I would want to get Ronnie Brewer. I really think he would be a great fit here who, along with Calderon, could get the ball to Mo, Mike James (if he stays), and Chris Bosh. He is also apparantly a very strong defender. Think about the nightmares opposing backcourts would have with the prospect of having Mo, and possibly Brewer and Graham out there. 

His jumpshot does scare me though. If we could have moved up I'd rather have Paul.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

To be honest I don't find Aldridge impressive at all. 

I think his pro career will parallel a Tony Battie.

I wouldn't mind seeing this pick traded to a later pick or for some immediate help.

This year's draft is unimpressive even in terms of potential.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

shookem said:


> I agree with everything you've said, but replace Williams with Splitter. He's bigger and has played against tougher competition, and IMO, will be the better 5 between the two.


I'm with you on *Splitter*, but I have a feeling that they won't pick big this year just because of the 'building through the draft isn't working' (paraphrasing) comment a few weeks ago. Bigs require more patience to develop, regardless of where they're picked, whereas a wing can come in and produce offensively much quicker.




blowuptheraptors said:


> Given the Raptors as of Feb 20th, 2006 are ranked:
> 
> 30th in overall rebounds per game (37.6)
> 29th in rebound differential (-2.8)
> 30th in blocks per game (3.2)


Using these stats, I would say that Splitter will give us what we need more than either Pryz or Nene. Both will be high cost acquisitions, both injuredSplitter is known for his excellent positional defence, toughness and rebounding which is what we've been missing these past few years. Splitter's not going to be looking to score as much as a lot of other guys, which is fine because we can get plenty of points from Bosh, Charlie and James. That being said, I've read that his offensive repertoire is okay.

If the management team is determined not to draft a big man. Then I would look at *Brandon Rush*, a nice young athletic wing with a really nice shot, good handles and good defence. Watching him, I think a little of McGrady and I could see Rush developing a similar game (maybe not at the same level), both lanky athletic guys who look super loose but can get to the basket and shoot the 3 at a good percentage.

Sorry if this was supposed to be a thread with really short replies. My bad.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I'd probably go with Splitter if thats how the top 4 went down. Carney would be my second choice.

If we take Shelden over Splitter, I might kill myself.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Team Mao said:


> I'm with you on *Splitter*, but I have a feeling that they won't pick big this year just because of the 'building through the draft isn't working' (paraphrasing) comment a few weeks ago. Bigs require more patience to develop, regardless of where they're picked, whereas a wing can come in and produce offensively much quicker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Naw man that's perfect.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

vigilante said:


> I'd probably go with Splitter if thats how the top 4 went down. Carney would be my second choice.
> 
> If we take Shelden over Splitter, I might kill myself.


Now I really want them to draft Shelden. LOL.

I was surprised how low Splitter is projected right now. Seems he has some buyout issues.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Now I really want them to draft Shelden. LOL.
> 
> I was surprised how low Splitter is projected right now. Seems he has some buyout issues.


In terms of buyout, what I've read is that he can walk for nothiing after next season (06/07), it's on Draftexpress somewhere. Therefore, Tau might be anxious to get something for him this year rather than lose him for nothing next year.
Under the new CBA, I think teams can contribute 500,000. With a top 10 rookie scale contract, Splitter could easily contribute another 500,000 giving Tau a cool mil, which they could use to develop some other young guys or pick up a backup C which is all Splitter seems to get on the team. One million might not be a lot in professional sports but it sure is a hell of a lot more than nothing.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

How about Tyrus Thomas

As a freshmen:

Thomas (Fr) 
26.5 Min
12.8 Pts
9.2 Reb
3.1 Blk
61% FG

Williams (Sr)
32.6 Min
18.3 Pts
10.0 Reb
3.8 BLk
58% FG

Thomas in 32.6MPG
15.7PPG
11.4RPG
3.8 BPG

Williams as a FR in 32.6MPG (only actually played 19 minutes per game)
14.4
10.0
2.7
52%


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Is Al Horford better then Shelden Williams as a prospect?

Horford (So), and a big boy at 6-9,242 
in 32.6MPG
14.6PPG
9.4 RPG
2.5BPG
65% FG


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

I've been reading a lot lately that Tyrus Thomas is looking to stick around in LSU for at least another season. Plus, if we draft another PF in the top 10 when we have needs at C, SG and PG, then I will lose it.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> I've been reading a lot lately that Tyrus Thomas is looking to stick around in LSU for at least another season. Plus, if we draft another PF in the top 10 when we have needs at C, SG and PG, then I will lose it.


Can never trust any of the "looking to stick around" comments ... a good teammate will always say that in February. Let's see when April comes.

That being said I agree that he is probably more of a PF.. but no less of a C then Shelden Williams. But I think he can handle the C spot.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

The thing Williams has over Thomas is bulk and length, two key attributes to have as an undersized centre. Thomas has already packed on a ton of pounds since high school and it doesn't look like he has the body type to get huge. His game doesn't really suit centre in the league, maybe the in a Suns style offence but that would be it.
Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but we've got a potential perennial all-star at PF and a young stud who can play SF/PF, I'd be really disappointed if we drafted a PF over centres and guards with a top 10 pick this year.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

the three scenarios I like (in order of preference):

1) move up in draft (or win lottery) and pick aldridge 

2) verify splitter's contract situation, and make sure he won't pull a fran-vasquez on us, and then draft tiago at 5-8ish.

3) if we aren't able to get either splitter or aldridge, select ronnie brewer. I like his defense and athleticism, and of all the guards available, I think he would best complement bosh's & MJ's game.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

It's Chris Bosh's and Mike James's contract year. James will be thirty-one next season and he's having a career year. The Raptors are obviously still rebuilding. Finally, he's seventeenth amongst point guards in the league in assists. I don't think that you can go into the offseason with the mentality that you're going to re-sign both of them. Of course they'll re-sign Bosh, but they'll need to look elsewhere for a point guard. That being said, next years draft looks to be rediculously strong for big men, and the Raptors aren't likely to be seeded by that point in time anyways. In my opinion, you take one of the strong point guards available in the class like Foye or Rondo, maybe even Collins as a dark horse. Collins' ability to pass the ball apparently stands out incredibly. With two big men in Villanueva and Bosh, that's imperative. Also, he's 6'6". Villanueva at the three, Collins at the one, Bosh at the four, and maybe O'Bryant at the five in 2007-2008, that's a lot of height. It would create tons of mismatches. I think that's the best plan.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

I cannot understand for the life of me why so many people want to obtain more power forwards. You don't obtain the best player available, you obtain the player that best suits the team agenda. Just ask the Hawks. They keep on aquiring small forwards and they suck. The Knicks keep on aquiring 1/2 combo guys and they suck. The team needs more diversity.


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> How about Tyrus Thomas
> 
> As a freshmen:
> 
> ...


There was an article that stated thomas is staying in college and not declaring for the draft


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

Collins isn't worth the #5 pick. It would be like picking Araujo all over again. I don't know if you have ever watched him play but his potential is very limited and his shooting is horrid. He is a worse prospect than Reece Gaines. I don't want the Raps picking him at all but I would understand if they traded down to select him. He's not lottery worthy IMO. I can't believe draft sites like nbadraft.net have him ahead of Gibson but then again I don't take draft sites that seriously. I would personally take Gibson over Collins anyday and Gibson isn't worth a #5 pick either.

Actually many players in this year's draft is not worth a #5 pick. This year's draft is weak. Outside of Morrison and Gay many of these players who are projected to be lottery picks would be mid to late 1st rounders in stronger draft years.

That being said, I am also uncomfortable with James being the Raps PG for the future. The longest contract I would sign him to is two years. Nothing more. He's not a PG, he's a 2 in a 1's body. James would be a perfect sixth man type player but not as a starting PG for a team that wants to be a playoff contender.

I like Rondo but he isn't really a PG either but I believe he can run an offense better than James can. Foye is definitely not a PG but he's been impressive and is much better than Collins IMO. But neither of these guys will solve the Rap's problem of having a floor general that can run an offense effectively. If Calderon improves his shooting I won't even worry about drafting a PG. 

The Raps need a big man. I'm not impressed with Aldridge and he is more of a PF in the NBA than a C but he gives us a body who is athletic enough to rebound. He's not a particurly strong shot blocker though. 

I really don't like this draft. Outside of Morrison and Gay (who have many questions) the rest are role player type prospects. Can't comment on the Italian kid since I haven't seen him at all. But then again we don't need a superstar or franchise player. Bosh already has that mantle. Charlie V looks solid and poised to be a solid second fiddle. 

IMO I really think the Raps should consider trading down. Picking a guy like Boone who will probably be available late lottery to mid 1st round and hopefully getting another complementary piece with the trade. 



urwhatueati8god said:


> It's Chris Bosh's and Mike James's contract year. James will be thirty-one next season and he's having a career year. The Raptors are obviously still rebuilding. Finally, he's seventeenth amongst point guards in the league in assists. I don't think that you can go into the offseason with the mentality that you're going to re-sign both of them. Of course they'll re-sign Bosh, but they'll need to look elsewhere for a point guard. That being said, next years draft looks to be rediculously strong for big men, and the Raptors aren't likely to be seeded by that point in time anyways. In my opinion, you take one of the strong point guards available in the class like Foye or Rondo, maybe even Collins as a dark horse. Collins' ability to pass the ball apparently stands out incredibly. With two big men in Villanueva and Bosh, that's imperative. Also, he's 6'6". Villanueva at the three, Collins at the one, Bosh at the four, and maybe O'Bryant at the five in 2007-2008, that's a lot of height. It would create tons of mismatches. I think that's the best plan.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

Will Ivan Chirieav drop to 5? 

:clown:


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## Peter Pan with a Tan (Feb 20, 2006)

jj


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## onecooljew (Apr 24, 2003)

Ballyhoo said:


> Will Ivan Chirieav drop to 5?
> 
> :clown:


"The Toronto Raptors NEED Ivan"


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

urwhatueati8god said:


> It's Chris Bosh's and Mike James's contract year. James will be thirty-one next season and he's having a career year. The Raptors are obviously still rebuilding. Finally, he's seventeenth amongst point guards in the league in assists. I don't think that you can go into the offseason with the mentality that you're going to re-sign both of them. Of course they'll re-sign Bosh, but they'll need to look elsewhere for a point guard. That being said, next years draft looks to be rediculously strong for big men, and the Raptors aren't likely to be seeded by that point in time anyways. In my opinion, you take one of the strong point guards available in the class like Foye or Rondo, maybe even Collins as a dark horse. Collins' ability to pass the ball apparently stands out incredibly. With two big men in Villanueva and Bosh, that's imperative. Also, he's 6'6". Villanueva at the three, Collins at the one, Bosh at the four, and maybe O'Bryant at the five in 2007-2008, that's a lot of height. It would create tons of mismatches. I think that's the best plan.


The Raps will resign both Bosh and James (I've come to accept this despite his flaws).
That being said, I agree with you about Mardy Collins, the guy is a special talent and definitely flying under the radar. But definitely not a top 10 pick.
The only way we pick Mardy Collins is if we somehow trade for a second 1st round pick, maybe New Orleans could be convinced to part with one of theirs?
About Raptors not contending for the playoffs next season, I'd have to disagree, especially in our division with the Sixers and Nets getting older, the Celtics looking confused, and the Knicks just being the Knicks. If you look at the Raptors play since December, this is a young team that only seems to be getting better.


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Hard to say without the hindsight of the upcoming Tourney, but I'd like to think we'll be looking at anyone from Ronnie Brewer to Splitter.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> The thing Williams has over Thomas is bulk and length, two key attributes to have as an undersized centre. Thomas has already packed on a ton of pounds since high school and it doesn't look like he has the body type to get huge. His game doesn't really suit centre in the league, maybe the in a Suns style offence but that would be it.
> Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but we've got a potential perennial all-star at PF and a young stud who can play SF/PF, I'd be really disappointed if we drafted a PF over centres and guards with a top 10 pick this year.


FYI, I am not saying we draft either, or a PF / undersized C for that matter, I am just comparing them to Shelden.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Rhubarb said:


> Hard to say without the hindsight of the upcoming Tourney, but I'd like to think we'll be looking at anyone from Ronnie Brewer to Splitter.


It seems like a make this point every year and no one listens ... but it is true.

THE NCAA TOURNAMENT HAS LITTLE IMPACT ON A PLAYER'S DRAFT POSITION. SCOUT'S HAVE BEEN WATCHING THERE GAMES ALL YEAR. THEY PLAY THIRTY GAMES ALL YEAR, AND ONE OR TWO GAMES IS GOING TO HAVE A BIG DIFFERENCE? HELL SCOUTS CANNOT WATCH ALL THESE GUYS PLAY BECAUSE THERE IS EIGHT FREAKING LOCATIONS IN THE FIRST ROUND. BUT THEY CAN EASILY SCHEDULE TO WATCH ALL THE GUYS PLAY FIVE REGULAR SEASON GAMES. AND FOR THE GOOD TEAMS, THERE FIRST ROUND MATCHUPS, ARE WORSE THEN HALF THE GAMES THEY HAVE PLAYED ALL YEAR, SO IT IS NOT A QUALITY OF COMPETITION THING EOTHER. END OF RANT. 

Can it have impact... sure... but very minor and limited to a very few individuals. 

I am done, end of rant for this year, the point will never be brought up again. Beleive what you must... but I am right. :biggrin:


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Tiago goes for like, 10.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, in about 22 mpg. All on the best team in europe!

No way, anyone makes comparrisons to Hoffa.

Draft Splitter!

Then find a sg in the second round.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

shookem said:


> Tiago goes for like, 10.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, in about 22 mpg. All on the best team in europe!
> 
> No way, anyone makes comparrisons to Hoffa.
> 
> ...


yes and yes

1st - Splitter
2nd - SG
2nd 2nd - bpa


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

How a draft prospect plays in the tourney has quite a huge impact on their draft position and scout impressions. Just ask Antonio McDyess.

But then again for every McDyess there is also a Caron Butler.



JuniorNoboa said:


> It seems like a make this point every year and no one listens ... but it is true.
> 
> THE NCAA TOURNAMENT HAS LITTLE IMPACT ON A PLAYER'S DRAFT POSITION. SCOUT'S HAVE BEEN WATCHING THERE GAMES ALL YEAR. THEY PLAY THIRTY GAMES ALL YEAR, AND ONE OR TWO GAMES IS GOING TO HAVE A BIG DIFFERENCE? HELL SCOUTS CANNOT WATCH ALL THESE GUYS PLAY BECAUSE THERE IS EIGHT FREAKING LOCATIONS IN THE FIRST ROUND. BUT THEY CAN EASILY SCHEDULE TO WATCH ALL THE GUYS PLAY FIVE REGULAR SEASON GAMES. AND FOR THE GOOD TEAMS, THERE FIRST ROUND MATCHUPS, ARE WORSE THEN HALF THE GAMES THEY HAVE PLAYED ALL YEAR, SO IT IS NOT A QUALITY OF COMPETITION THING EOTHER. END OF RANT.
> 
> ...


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> How about Tyrus Thomas
> 
> As a freshmen:
> 
> ...


Check out his build. He is what? 215? Sounds like Hakim Warrick. Get to the NBA and there is no way he can bang down low. Shelden is a solid 250. Numbers are important to a degree, but you have to then take into account their body type to see whether they can be successful. Is Hakim Warrick a successful PF, or have the body? Sean May? They put up the numbers in college, where are they now. Is Shelden Shaq? Who is. Shelden is AD with a bit of Ben.


Plus, from the resident Tyrus expert on the Draft board and some reports, it is likely that he stays another year.

Who would you take JN?


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> It seems like a make this point every year and no one listens ... but it is true.
> 
> THE NCAA TOURNAMENT HAS LITTLE IMPACT ON A PLAYER'S DRAFT POSITION. SCOUT'S HAVE BEEN WATCHING THERE GAMES ALL YEAR. THEY PLAY THIRTY GAMES ALL YEAR, AND ONE OR TWO GAMES IS GOING TO HAVE A BIG DIFFERENCE? HELL SCOUTS CANNOT WATCH ALL THESE GUYS PLAY BECAUSE THERE IS EIGHT FREAKING LOCATIONS IN THE FIRST ROUND. BUT THEY CAN EASILY SCHEDULE TO WATCH ALL THE GUYS PLAY FIVE REGULAR SEASON GAMES. AND FOR THE GOOD TEAMS, THERE FIRST ROUND MATCHUPS, ARE WORSE THEN HALF THE GAMES THEY HAVE PLAYED ALL YEAR, SO IT IS NOT A QUALITY OF COMPETITION THING EOTHER. END OF RANT.
> 
> ...


I would have to disagree with the March Madness not making any impact on a player's draft position...just quick example Antonio mcdyess and bryce drew


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## vi3t_boi11 (Aug 14, 2004)

This draft is kinda like the 2003 draft, the first 3 picks were set, the draft began with the Raptors, Now in 2006, the top four picks will prob be Gay, Aldridge, Morrison, Bargnani, and the rest we're not sure of


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> It seems like a make this point every year and no one listens ... but it is true.
> 
> THE NCAA TOURNAMENT HAS LITTLE IMPACT ON A PLAYER'S DRAFT POSITION. SCOUT'S HAVE BEEN WATCHING THERE GAMES ALL YEAR. THEY PLAY THIRTY GAMES ALL YEAR, AND ONE OR TWO GAMES IS GOING TO HAVE A BIG DIFFERENCE? HELL SCOUTS CANNOT WATCH ALL THESE GUYS PLAY BECAUSE THERE IS EIGHT FREAKING LOCATIONS IN THE FIRST ROUND. BUT THEY CAN EASILY SCHEDULE TO WATCH ALL THE GUYS PLAY FIVE REGULAR SEASON GAMES. AND FOR THE GOOD TEAMS, THERE FIRST ROUND MATCHUPS, ARE WORSE THEN HALF THE GAMES THEY HAVE PLAYED ALL YEAR, SO IT IS NOT A QUALITY OF COMPETITION THING EOTHER. END OF RANT.
> 
> ...


My ears hurt after that. But I still don't agree.

The best way to judge a player is prolonged scouting, obviously I agree with that point. But all the regular season games don't amount to the playoff atmosphere of the tournament and the pressure on the players during. Some teams get constant exposure so they are used to the attention but for the most part it's a new environment for many players and it is more akin to what the NBA is like in some respects.

You can get a player like Sean May who stepped up his game during the season, but his draft stock didn't rise into the lottery (some would argue) until his performance in the tourny.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

But then again... Marquis Daniels had a great tourney and that knocked him out of the draft altogether!


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Check out his build. He is what? 215? Sounds like Hakim Warrick. Get to the NBA and there is no way he can bang down low. Shelden is a solid 250. Numbers are important to a degree, but you have to then take into account their body type to see whether they can be successful. Is Hakim Warrick a successful PF, or have the body? Sean May? They put up the numbers in college, where are they now. Is Shelden Shaq? Who is. Shelden is AD with a bit of Ben.
> 
> 
> Plus, from the resident Tyrus expert on the Draft board and some reports, it is likely that he stays another year.
> ...


I'm not sure who I would take to be honest. Just brought him up for the sake of discussion


Hakim was never a great rebounder or shot blocker like Thomas, so I don't think it is a rather ****ty comparison.

Plus Hakim was 6-8 185 as a freshemen. Can Thomas fill out to say 235 - that's for scouts to assess.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

speedythief said:


> My ears hurt after that. But I still don't agree.


Your lucky I did not make this post last Friday, it would have been even more painful.




> The best way to judge a player is prolonged scouting, obviously I agree with that point. But all the regular season games don't amount to the playoff atmosphere of the tournament and the pressure on the players during. Some teams get constant exposure so they are used to the attention but for the most part it's a new environment for many players and it is more akin to what the NBA is like in some respects.


For the players in a new environment, it's usually one and out, and scouts simply cannot see these games (when there eight different sites)



> You can get a player like Sean May who stepped up his game during the season, but his draft stock didn't rise into the lottery (some would argue) until his performance in the tourny.


Sean May's stock was solidified before the tournament started. He was amazing last February (easily the best player in the country after mid-Janaury in the toughest conference), and by that time scouts had settled on his "lotto" status.

His games against Duke were more intense then anything you will see in the tourney, except maybe the final four.


Anyway, this is an argument we have had last year, and nobody convinced each other last year, and I doubt I will convince you and others this year. And I doubt you will convince me.

I just made my one post on the subject worth it. Should have bolded and in red as well. :biggrin:


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

JuniorNoboa said:


> It seems like a make this point every year and no one listens ... but it is true.
> 
> THE NCAA TOURNAMENT HAS LITTLE IMPACT ON A PLAYER'S DRAFT POSITION. SCOUT'S HAVE BEEN WATCHING THERE GAMES ALL YEAR. THEY PLAY THIRTY GAMES ALL YEAR, AND ONE OR TWO GAMES IS GOING TO HAVE A BIG DIFFERENCE? HELL SCOUTS CANNOT WATCH ALL THESE GUYS PLAY BECAUSE THERE IS EIGHT FREAKING LOCATIONS IN THE FIRST ROUND. BUT THEY CAN EASILY SCHEDULE TO WATCH ALL THE GUYS PLAY FIVE REGULAR SEASON GAMES. AND FOR THE GOOD TEAMS, THERE FIRST ROUND MATCHUPS, ARE WORSE THEN HALF THE GAMES THEY HAVE PLAYED ALL YEAR, SO IT IS NOT A QUALITY OF COMPETITION THING EOTHER. END OF RANT.
> 
> ...


Where did I suggest otherwise?

If you insist on going down this road, then nothing should be finalized till its all said and done and June cometh. Point is, though, for every other season game which scouts analyze their brains over (which I agree with) March is on another plane, and it's more than worth looking into and playing into account when we decide who dons the Raptor jersey.

It's by no means the be all and end all of scouting, nor should it have an overwhelming influence on our drafting decision come June because, quite frankly, we need to take into account the other how many games these guys have played that weren't at the Tourney level. There's a fine line when we take into consideration the level of input the Tourney will have in our draft outcome, I don't doubt that. You can't read your whole pick on the Tourney, nor can you blindly ignore it - there's a compromise.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Rudy Gay if he is gone Rodney Carney


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