# Raptors through January 2011 - Long live the tanking...



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Ok, so this forum seems to have ground to halt over the Christmas period (I'm going to go ahead and blame Baby Jesus directly), so I may aswell throw an entire month of games into one thread, we may get past page 1 this way  ... 

Were not exactly tanking at the moment, the effort and talent seems to be in place, the wins just aren't coming. Each loss is a godsend if you ask me, with the East so darn tight, we need as many as possible. Imagine winning just enough to take us out of the Top 10 in the draft? ... This draft is very top heavy and we need a star player to really invigorate this franchise and inject some belief that we're actually meant to be a winning franchise. 


We're presently 11-21. 


First up in 2011, Boston.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Are there really any franchise changers in this draft though? Seems pretty underwhelming.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Kyrie Irving is the next CP3.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

You never know with the draft. That is why you need as many picks as possible and hope to get lucky. I still see Raps in the 1 win, 2 losses rut for the rest of the season and an 8 to 11 draft pick.

BOS didn't seem too into the game tonight, at least early. Rondo played but didn't play if you know what I mean. Shaq had an old man game. But Pierce was the man again with great shooting and another big dunk on a Raptor PF.

DD had 27 points on 25 shots but you have to like his aggression. He is starting to finish a little better around the rim and just has that natural knack of getting the foul call. I still don't see star in his future but a different version of Maggette wouldn't be too bad.

Will DD stay as aggressive when Bargnani and others get back? He seemed content to just sit in a corner and watch before. If we want him to be a reliable number 2 or 3 guy he has to be more assertive.

I have to wonder what is going on with Sonny's back. These spasms usually only last a couple of games and the fact we brought in Dupree is odd when the 10 day contracts with D league open up soon and we could look at a young player. Hopefully it is nothing too serious with Sonny.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I don't even think Irving is coming out this year because of his injury.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Or he comes out this year *because* of his injury. After seeing how quickly it can all go away it makes some sense to jump into the nba and grab that rookie contract a few spots lower rather than risk an injury that sees you go undrafted or second round the next year. Plus he did show a lot in his limited time this year.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

According to multiple draft websites Irving is listed as a 2012 draft pick. I'm assuming that either Irving made a statement or they know something about him not coming out next year.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

What would hurt his stock more--coming out after missing a year or playing next year and not living up to expectations?

I'll be surprised if he doesn't enter himself this summer. He's got a chance at guaranteed millions and won't pass it up, IMHO.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

If he is healthy enough to fully showcase himself in workouts this summer then I don't see any way he falls below 14-17 at worst. More likely he is still a top 10 pick. If he can't do the workouts full speed or has any issue with his medicals then he could fall into the late 20s or even second round. 
I am assuming he will have no issue with his recovery. This could be an Ed Davis scenario where a nice player falls to us in that 8-10 pick range.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Remember what I was saying about Jose and how it would be a bad decision to not trade him? Now that he's injured again he's pretty much untradable.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> Remember what I was saying about Jose and how it would be a bad decision to not trade him? Now that he's injured again he's pretty much untradable.


Woah, woah, woah. I thought he was just sore and that's why he sat the game out? ... I've not seen any reports to suggest otherwise, or do you have some kind of insider information? ... 

As for the game. Meh, rack up another loss. Bargnani came back and got right back into his scoring groove, dropping 23 points. He really is the threat we all wanted him to become, however, he still doesn't look for those rebounds like we all prayed he would. DeMar must be averaging 20 plus points these past 5 games too, I was glad to see him still get 18 as he has a tendency to defer to Bargnani when they're both on court. We need them both to score. BECAUSE ... 

Our defense sure as hell isn't winning any games this year. What a difference Reggie Evans made, he masked how poor we really are on the defensive end and now we're getting schooled. Again, the 2nd quarter was brutal. How has Triano not picked up on this yet? I feel like I'm writing about it every god damn game.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Oh and Bayless shouldn't have been rushed back like this. He looked out of sorts and caused numerous turnovers. Surely the D-League can offer a better back up PG than Dupree?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Jose has missed 6 of the last 12 games due to a foot injury. I'll bet anyone here that this will be something that will bother him for the rest of the year.

I'm sure we could obtain a backup pg if we want to but why? The season is over and we're playing for pingpong balls. Might as well just go with what we have and get slaughtered nightly.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i look at this team and wonder if there's anyone on the roster who'll still be there when we turn the corner.

one thing i wouldn't understate is the lasting effect of losing. it has an incredible power imo. we might want to tank as fans- hell i do too- but i don't think there are many kids who can sit there and eat 50-60 losses at a time without seriously jeopardizing their futures in this league. 

how many players can endure ~55 losses and just get up, dust themselves off and remain unaffected long-term on the road to a championship (or for us, second-round) future?

i like how bayless doesn't stand for it but... i mean, we've seen that before too.

peace


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The reality is that we need to get lucky in the draft and find that game-changing talent. Lebron did it for the Cavs and Carmelo did it for the Nuggets in the same draft. Roy did it for POR. Guys like Rose, Paul, Dwill, Durant have all done it for their franchises who also made other good moves around them. And these are all very recent situations.

You only want to really suck for that one year to get your big star then improve every year after that and hopefully you already have a number 2 guy or you can scoop one with a pick in the 9-17 range on your way up.

Players can bounce back from one year of losing 50 plus games but any more than that and you do risk ruining the player or at least creating bad attitudes and work habits.

But without that top star we just don't have a chance of being more than first round fodder for the good teams. The odds of a max money player choosing to come here as a FA are very poor. That is just the reality. 

The fact that our ownership is highly unlikely to ever pay significant tax dollars is another big factor. It makes it much harder to build a team as your timing with FAs has to be perfect and if you make a bad signing or get a key injury you are stuck with no options.

Big spending teams can just keep using the MLE every year without worry and that puts you in the running for most of the top FAs every year, just not the max money guys.

All these factors make a championship in TOR an unlikely scenario that will require a good amount of luck and getting it right the first time around your superstar. Rookie contracts are key.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Raps just incapable of tanking well. We shoot 58% and barely squeak out a win against a 2-11 road team. We shot 50% against BOS and lose by 20. Spider sense tells me defense may be an issue with these guys.

Win 14 coming up soon against DET but then we should lose 4 of 5 on the road against good teams and settle back a bit. Still, we are just 2 games out of the 8 seed and a locked in 15 pick in the draft. Woo hoo.

Derozan is making nice strides though during this stretch. His confidence is high and he is learning to be more aggressive on O.  If he can just improve his D over the next year or so we could have ourselves a fringe all-star kind of player down the road. I still don't see star player in him but he should be a solid pro.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

i'll be happy if derozen turns out as good as magette.. someone who gets to the line and attack the basket..


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

DeRozan froze out of the game towards the very end but still, he was sensational earlier on. Him and Bargnani are looking like the real deal. 

If we could flip Jose for a young piece and get lucky in the draft we could be in with a shout of being a real powerhous Irving/DD/Bargs/Davis is potentially a 'Ship winning core.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> Raps just incapable of tanking well. We shoot 58% and barely squeak out a win against a 2-11 road team. We shot 50% against BOS and lose by 20. Spider sense tells me defense may be an issue with these guys.
> 
> Win 14 coming up soon against DET but then we should lose 4 of 5 on the road against good teams and settle back a bit. Still, we are just 2 games out of the 8 seed and a locked in 15 pick in the draft. Woo hoo.


I don't think we need to worry about draft position and heres why. Currently we're the 8th worst team in the league and several teams below us are likely to move above us.

Nets - It looks like they will be getting Melo and when that happens they are likely to contend for that 8th spot or at least move ahead of us in the standings.

Clippers - They are starting to figure things out and recent wins against decent teams leads me to believe that they will at least finish with 25 wins this year, which should be more than us as well.

Teams that are slightly above us are also moving up.

Milwaukee - Once Jennings gets back they should be a lock for the playoffs.

Charlotte - They are 4-2 since Paul Silas took over and once guys like Gerald Wallace and Tyrus Thomas get healthy they should be around the 30 win mark.

Philly - Unless Iguodala gets traded for nothing they should stay where they are right now, which is a few games out of the 8th spot. Once they figure out how to work a backcourt of Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner they should be better than their current record.

Indiana - Again, another team that's a lot more talented than our team. Darren Collison has played terrible up until this point of the season and I expect him to get better in the 2nd half. You would also figure that guys like Granger and Hibbert will snap out of their current slump.

So overall when you look at the big picture the Raptors will end up with 5th or 6th worst record which gives us a decent chance at a top 3 pick. Only the Cavs/Kings/Twolves are definitely worse than us. Teams like Wizards/Pistons have a chance to go either way since both teams in my opinion are more talented than us as well.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

A 5th or 6th position going into the lottery would be ideal for this team.

I don't think it is a lock at all though. Games like tonight against ATL show you how competitive the Raps can be and if we don't trade a guy like Barbosa he will steal a game or three for them.

And for every team like the Clips that look like they might move up a bit you have teams like PHX and HOU that could really tank hard.

NJ, if they even get Melo, will only have about 42 games left and I don't think they can win more than 24 of those unless their schedule gets very easy. That limits them to 34 or 35 wins at best.

PHI, IND, MIL, and CHA while they should stay above us there is not much separation there with the Raps and one or two could easily slip below us.

DET, WAS, CLE, MIN, SAC are all close to guaranteed to stay below us. But then I think you have PHI, IND, GS, PHX, and NJ if no Melo that will be battling it out for a 6-10 lotto spot with the Raps. You even have to wonder if HOU, POR, and DEN can hold it together with all their problems. One of those could seriously tank.

Just 1 or 2 games could have a huge impact on the bottom of the standings for the Raps. 34 wins is still the pace for the 8 seed in the East today. Raps are on pace for 28 and I think you could see their final tally be plus or minus 4 from that.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

This one hurt the Robot himself.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Raps sign PG Sundiata Gaines to a day 10 day'er. Could appear against the Pistons.

Link


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i just want bargnani to go. i don't know if i've ever felt like this about any player in toronto. i mean, he's a good shooter. a great sub. but my lord, the guy is not an nba star. he's not playing the nba game. he's playing his own game and we've rotated dozens of teammates around him, and none of them have worked. this is not a coincidence to me.

i don't know how he could have had just three rebounds last night. three. i mean, stats don't say it all but... when you have that kind of consistent failure from game to game, from season to season, you can't help but notice. it's unbelievable.

we need this guy to be a five and he's nowhere close. he's not doing those things. he's doing other things that the rest of our team is just not used to. in the end it's such an uncomfortable view, imo. we're all just running around aimlessly trying to catch up with each other. i don't see it getting any better, either.

that picture up there is nice, porn p, but i wish i believed it. i mean, photos lie. that was barely a second. i remember that sequence. down and up. i wasn't exactly recalling memories of bosh vs golden state last year, writhing in humiliation under the basket like an animal on display.

i've seen the best of bargnani. it's not good enough for me. he can hit shots- but that's all he can do. he's a specialist, he's not a leader. it's just like we've taken the ball out of bosh's hands and given it to bargnani- everything else is status quo. it's the same silly garbage. i watched blake griffin last night and, sheeeee-it, it makes you want to punch a wall. i don't think anyone's playing super-critic or super-apologist in los angeles because they don't have to. i don't think anyone feels the need to attack or defend his game because his play speaks for itself. the guy averages 7 more rpg than bargnani- 7! that's impossible! from the *four*! he averages twice as many apg as bargnani, too! and from the *four*! he's got more blocks than bargnani and he's not even a shotblocker- and he's a *four*! he doesn't have the ball in his hands nearly as much and still he does more with it. 

and he's ******' four years younger- and a rookie! i mean, _that's_ a young player whose mistakes can be ignored because he's learning, not a 25 yo five-year vet. 

i don't mean to compare andrea to blake but... i dunno. it's so frustrating. it helps you realize just how much rope we've given mr bargnani over his first five years. it's like, dayamm. stop the insanity. 

he's a good player. he's not the devil incarnate. he's absolutely not a terrible player. but he's not a cornerstone. we shouldn't have treated him like that before and we shouldn't be doing it now. we're just digging the hole deeper... and deeper... and deeper.

i'm so tired of the argument, to be honest. i'm tired of the controversy. i mean, call a duck a duck and move on. the controversy is not healthy and, to me, only symptomizes a franchise-wide denial still in effect. swallow your pride already. where the hell is this going?

either way, i do 'want' to lose these games but... i guess i'll just have to tune out and stop listening to what people are saying about them because that just drives me crazy. 

peace


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

If you look at Bargs stats from last year to this year he does seem to have plateu'd. Rebounds are slightly down and shooting percentages almost identical. Blocks are almost in half. Shots are up from 14.2 to 17.5 or so.

In some ways this is a good thing because it shows he is cut out to be a #2 guy and we won't lose out on anything by moving him back to that role. Considering his contract is good for a #2 and around average for a decent big and I don't see why he has to be moved..UNLESS..we come to the conclusion that no team can be a contender when their C is not strong in typical C areas of D and rebounding.

I look to the example of Rik Smits of the Pacers. He was a better rebounder per minute, but never played over 30mpg even as a starter. Better FG% because he never shot threes. Great FT%. Same type of shot blocker as Bargs. Not sure about team D. Those IND teams that went deep in playoffs, even to Finals, had guys like Antonio and Dale Davis at the big spots with him, Reggie Miller on the wing, Mark Jackson at PG, and some other nice role players with skill like McKie. They used Smits intelligently as their only true low post threat and good mid range shooter. They were strong in the paint with Dale and AD and a very good defensive club overall. Similar to the Larry Brown Sixer club that had a couple of great years and the Nets club that ruled the East for a couple of years.

All 3 of those examples had strong play in the paint, a high scoring wing, some very high draft pick talent, and great defense. Veterans led the way and top level role players made it all work to hide the stars weaknesses and play off his strengths.

Those may be realistic teams to use as a model for the Raps future success. I just don't think our GM is capable of putting that type of team together.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Ed Davis is by far my favourite player at this ball club. He does all that stuff we haven't see in the paint for years. Since Bargnani. Since Bosh. Actually not since Antonio Davis. He's long, lean and mean and not afraid to get around the basket. He's going to be a really solid player in this league for years to come, I hope the Raptors can get the assets around him to convince him to stay. 

We can split hairs on Bargnani for days and days, weeks and weeks, well actually we've been doing it for years and years. He can score. He can play decent man to man defense but he simply can't/won't do anything else for the team. He will never lead this team deep into the playoffs, he just can't stop an opponent scoring and to win a high % you need to stop them getting theirs all the while still getting yours. I'm not sure I'm even comfortable with him starting on a team that I have hopes for the playoffs. If we could flip him for a young upstart PG or big bodied defensive C, I would do it in a heart beat. 

PG, DeMar DeRozan, Perry Jones/Terrence Williams, Ed Davis, C. Bargnani off the bench would suit his skillset down to the ground. Bargs, Bayless, Weems and Amir Johnson off the bench would be a really good second unit. 

We have a couple of the pieces, possible 3/5ths after the draft to be a really good starting team in the East. Unless we shift the crap we will forever be mediocre. If Bargnani is starting it means the opponents are scoring.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Is Bargs the weak link causing the chain to break on D? I don't think so. He's just not that anchor you would like him to be.

You put him in a rotation with an Oak, AD, Mutombo, Camby, or even Haywood, Love, Perkins, Bynum level of bigs around him and you are fine.

You put a scoring wing around him like Wade, Pierce, Gay that rebounds well for the position 6-7rpg and that rounds out your lineup even more. Some PGs can get you 5rpg too.

Bargs scores pretty efficiently and that is a talent. You listen to offers for him but it would have to be a major piece coming back.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> Is Bargs the weak link causing the chain to break on D? I don't think so. He's just not that anchor you would like him to be.
> 
> You put him in a rotation with an Oak, AD, Mutombo, Camby, or even Haywood, Love, Perkins, Bynum level of bigs around him and you are fine.
> 
> ...


Oh for sure, if we were to trade him I would want a player like Gay in return and then we can draft either Irving or Kanter have 4/5ths of the puzzle sorted out. 

Irving, DeRozan, Gay, Davis and Kanter seems to have everything you could want from a basketball team. It's a pipedream, but one we have the pieces to make.


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

We need to draft Terrence Jones, the guy is a beast. Irving may not come out, hopefully we can get a top 5 pick.

Agree with Ballocks on Bargs, trade him if you can for a top pick/prospect if possible.


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

If Bargs could only board like Special Ed...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fBijpeuUEQ&feature=player_embedded


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Ed Davis was once again a bright spot, he's always hustling for offensive boards, it's fantastic to see. When Bargnani isn't shooting well, he's brutal to watch. DeMar was decent. Talking of shooting woes, Jose, yowza.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

January continues to be brutal. This swing West continues to be brutal. The Raptors defense continues to be the most brutal of all. 


We lack talent and experience so why the hell aren't these guys hustling on D? It's an area that takes little talent but mass amount of effort and heart. Triano may have got the offense sparked but he really is missing a trick not working on D. The regression we have seen since the start of the season is almost painful - it's almost like without Reggie the rest of the team feel they don't have to work as hard. And why would they work hard? Nobody around them is. Nobody is leading this team. 

The Spurs turned over a 13 point deficit with ease last night. We just surrendered. The thing is, I actually thought 'these guys are hustling tonight, they finally want to attempt some D', then it's like the Spurs flicked it and got stop after stop which led to easy bucket after easy bucket. All the while players are standing around. 
Neal hit a wide open 3 in the 4th and Bargnani just shrugged off him and slowly turned to watch it drop in. WTF? It's a tight ballgame, throw a hand up, show some pressure and then hustle your lazy Italian ass for the rebound. 

It's not like he's even shooting well. Bargnani is 19-for-61 (31 percent) the past three games. If he's not getting points then why does he deserve court time? Give me Davis and Johnson in the frontcourt instead. 

Ed Davis was perfect from the field and grabbed 11 boards (3 of them offensive). Kid showing he can get it done against one of the best frontcourts in the league. 

DeMar scored a bunch in the first half and then saw Pop throw a double team at him. He succumbed and went 1-5 the remainder of the way. Can't blame him as he was the only player to really score all game and it's not like he's the first player the Spurs have shut down.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

I'll admit I've only watched a couple Raptor games this year (4 max), but I've been really impressed by this Ed Davis guy. He's a really good rebounder, and hustles for everything, it's refreshing to see. 

Why is Bargnani getting minutes over him? I'm looking at the stats, and it looks like Andrea is still just chucking up shots, and hurting the team more than anything. Whereas Ed is really efficient, and rebounds a hell of a lot better, despite being listed as 2 inches shorter. 

Realistically, if you wanted to, what do you think you could get for Bargnani?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

FX™;6465055 said:


> Realistically, if you wanted to, what do you think you could get for Bargnani?


If we trade him when he's a hot commodity (like a month ago) his value would be pretty high. I mean, stick him on a team like the Lakers who have Bynum/Gasol to protect him and you have yourself a great match. He can and will be a 20+ppg scorer for a long time in this league, he just needs a Defense orientated team to pick up his slack, and who knows, they may even inspire him to grab a board or two. He's a talented kid, he just isn't a great fit with my Raptors at all. He's actually the worst type of fit to try and lead a struggling franchise. 

In todays market I'd say he could potentially command a Rudy Gay type of player. However, alot depends on the direction we go in the draft, and I think we'll grab one of the Jones', that means we could use Bargnani and Calderon as pieces to see a solid C and an up and coming PG in the mould of Kaman and Bledsoe (plus something else) land on our franchise. 

We have valuable players. It's just a shame they are not wholly valuable to us.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Maybe I sold Jose and Andrea a little short actually. 

Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and this years Clippers 1st would be a great deal for both teams. 

Griffin needs some experience around him, and just imagine Jose and him hooking up on lob after lob. Bargnani is set next to a beast of a rebounder in Griffin. The defense wouldn't be great, but offensively they would be a powerhouse. 

Jose/Gordon/Aminu/Griffin/Bargnani. They could be a replica of the Suns a few years back. 

We end up with

Bledsoe/DeRozan/Perry Jones/Davis/Jordan + another high 1st. The rebuild would be complete and we could develop this team into something really special. Alternatively we could take Aminu instead of Bledsoe and then draft Irving and really have a team to be excited about.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

And we're still losing. 

Went down 120-103 to the Heat. They didn't even have Wade or Bosh. Shows how scrubby we really are that Miller can go off on us after being pretty miserable all season, it's all part of the course for us though, watching another teams faltering stars explode for a big game against our tiny D. Blah. 

DeRozan with 30. Ed Davis still grabbing those rebounds. Bargnani finally broke out of his scoring slump.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

DeRozan is looking like a superstar. He makes some ridiculous buckets and keeps on making them, he has great body control mid flight and a knack for getting it to drop. I was really impressed with him last night. 

The entire game was great, minus the end of the streak ofcourse and the actual Gay-end. 

We've lost 8 on the bounce and were down to .289%, pretty ugly but if it lands us Irving then the guys need to deal with. 

Ed Davis with career high 5 blocks. Jerryd Bayless with career high 11asts and 8 rebounds.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

ESPN have their mock draft up on the site - 

http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2011/mockdraft 

I played it 20 times, heres the results for Toronto - 

Enes Kanter - 9 times
Jared Sullinger - 7 times
Kyrie Irving - 5 times


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

With the solid free agent class for big men coming up we need to pray we land Irving or either of the Jones' and work from there. I got Kanter and Sullinger with the 4th and 5th pick respectively, I love that generator. 

I really think we should flip Bargnani for a stud SF. 

Irving/DeRozan/Gay/Davis/Gasol


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Raps are finally getting this tanking thing right. You have to sit guys out and dump healthy vets like Peja who could have impacted a few close games. At least challenging for 8/9 seed is out of the question right now. Raps look more like a 25 win team today with this nice losing streak locked in. If the injuries hold up we might even be closer to 20 which I never would have thought possible with Demar's growth and Ed's surprisingly good rookie year.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

not happy to see weems hurting out there. he had a fast break and went for a layup. clearly not at his best. he was falling all over the place too. hope he gets better soon.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

10 straight losses. 

Ajinca got 10 points off some really efficient play. Did we get a steal by landing him? ... 

Delfinos play to try and win the game was hysterical. He just ran, fell, threw the ball and looked at the refs. Bargnani had the chance to win the game. He didn't. 

We're officially in the 4th spot for the Draft lottery balls right now.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Ajinca is a steal the same way Primoz Brezec and David Andersen were steals.

I haven't watched a Raptor game from start to finish since Reggie Evans went down.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> Ajinca is a steal the same way Primoz Brezec and David Andersen were steals.
> 
> I haven't watched a Raptor game from start to finish since Reggie Evans went down.


We got Ajinca for nothing. We got our 2nd rounder back too. 

We_ gave up_ somebody who was a DNP. Peja didn't want to be here. We didn't really need him, he certainly wasn't in our plans going forward. 

Did you even catch Ajinca play last night? Looked good to me. Him and Ed Davis seem to blend well together.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Nope, I did not catch the game last night.

I'm just making a prediction based on the countless scrubs that we have given minutes to over the years.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> Nope, I did not catch the game last night.
> 
> I'm just making a prediction based on the countless scrubs that we have given minutes to over the years.


You are a wise man. 


I'm ever the optimist.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Even Armstrong commented that Ajinca is another in the line of 7 footers the Raps have taken a look at just to see if something is there. POB, Loren Woods, the Gangsta, Moiso, Andersen and now Ajinca and Alabi.

Can't say that he won't develop into something but most bigs either have it or don't right away. He probably has more of a chance than Alabi though based on basketball skill and instincts. But putting another 7 foot jump shooter next to Bargs does little to excite me unless his D and rebounding are awesome.

MIL is the latest 'poor scoring' team to light up the Raps and its a consistent problem that just hasn't improved at all over the last few seasons.

The top 10 defensive teams (PPG) are:
NOH
BOS
CHI
MIL
MIA
DAL
ORL
POR
ATL
LAL

Only MIA doesn't have what you would call great Defensive bigs. ATL is a little small too but they have good size at every position and very good athletes.

Maybe Bargs need to be a 7 foot Jamal Crawford off the bench for instant offense. That is what he was in 06/07 when he was a point a minute type bench scorer. Amir and DD and Weems and Jose/Bayless would have to carry more of the scoring load until we draft a stud, and maybe a guy like Ajinca can be a slightly better version of TysonChandler or BHaywood for us.

Its so hard to say because every piece we have seems to be crap defensively and they can't learn good habits playing together and failing miserably on D each night.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Well, our Raps have certainly come together and embraced my tanking challenge. And I have to admit they have surpassed any expectations I could have had for dramatically increasing their suckage quotient. Amazing commitment.

Bargnani has unselfishly cast aside any all star aspirations in support of the lottery chase. From his chucking on O to his red carpet D to his incredible effort in getting out of the way of rebounds its been full effort tanking from our big stud.

12 losses in a row. Putting W's on the likes of SAC, MIN, WAS, and DET. I never saw it coming.

Are they teasing us with this 4th overall pick position? Will there be some kind of crazy late season win streak of 5 or 6 games to drop us to 7 or even 8? Its going to be a wild finish to the season.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

We had 7 players in double figure scoring numbers. 

Ed Davis with 13pts, 7rbs and 3 blocks is all I really care about.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Ed Davis through January - 7.2 points, 6.6 rebounds, 66.3 FG%, 1.4 blocks in 22:41 with only 2.8 fouls. 

Kid needs, and deserves more minutes. He wasn't involved in crunch time last night, benched in preference of Andrea. Triano needs to get off the Italians jock and give Davis his dues.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

he just needs to add 20 LBS of bulk and he will be a beast in the post and even bigger on the glass.
He should be playing 25 MPG now let him develop what is lacking in his game, however the starting gig is gonna be tough him or Amir who has also stepped up, better offensively but the fouls issue coaching needs to help lower.
I don`t see Bargs as a true C non existent on the glass and on the D end once in a while the big block but has tailed off since Reggie went down, is not running back on D hard and last 4 games, I have noticed Jay bench him in favour of ED.
There are 2 interior C that are gonna be FA`
s I would love if we added Dalembert or Chandler and drafted another with the heat pick or BPA


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Things just got worse for the Raps.

Apparently Kleiza just had knee surgery that will shelve him for 9-12 months. That came outta nowhere.

That contract just became very ugly.


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