# Good Article about "The Trade"



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons



*6. With that said, not only do the Celtics look like a 25-win team right now, I have a feeling that Paul Pierce will be going into Full Sabotage Mode by Thanksgiving to force a trade to a winning team. Let's hope we don't have Vince Carter, The Sequel on our hands.*


eh well...i gues we can expect 3 or so yrs of bein the atlanta hawks


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## ZWW (Jan 17, 2004)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :brokenhea


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Greg Oden, my friends. Greg Oden.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Yea, Oden. Boston and half the league are waiting for him.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

We lost out on Duncan.

If Stern has any heart in him, he'll fix the lottery for us.


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## cos (May 15, 2005)

I have no idea what you guys are thinking about Oden. Its at least 2 years away, and I do not want to wait with a ****ty team just to the CHANCE of getting Oden, who has a CHANCE to be great. Build now, if the opportunity exists to get him, fine, but you don't tank at least 2 season just to get a guy with a chance to be good. 

By the way, im in agreement with anyone else out there thinking there will be another deal done before the season starts. WE NEED A PG!!!! 

The sad thing is, outside of having a ton of youth and potential, thats all we have. No team is going to give us a decent player without getting a couple of these young guys. Then what happens, we give them the guys that played last season and we start fresh from year 1 with the new guys, or we give them the new guys and waste the picks. 

We just reversed course and are heading lower. I like Jefferson a lot, but this season is not his coming out party, thats next year.

One more thing. Im sick and tired of all you schmucks out there touting Marcus Banks like hes the next Tim Hardaway or something. The guy has no clue. Im surprised he wasnt involved in the trade for watson or williams (although jason would have killed the team). Banks has 1 assets, speed. But he doesn't understand how to help the team. Less dribbling more crisp passes for assists.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Greg Oden will be a more valuable than Tim Duncan.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> 6. With that said, not only do the Celtics look like a 25-win team right now, I have a feeling that Paul Pierce will be going into Full Sabotage Mode by Thanksgiving to force a trade to a winning team. Let's hope we don't have Vince Carter, The Sequel on our hands.


Thanks, Bill. Perhaps you've forgotten 2003-2004, which was a brutal team as well. And Paul sure threw in the towel that year, didn't he?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

We're way worse off now. We won't make the playoffs. The Eastern Conference has improved and we've stayed the same. Pierce should demand a trade after he realizes that we're tanking.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> We're way worse off now.


I agree, but I still don't think Paul would pack it in a la VC...do you?



> We won't make the playoffs.


Barring a big DA move, no.



> Pierce should demand a trade after he realizes that we're tanking.


Yeah, he should, and the C's should give it to him, too, because all this time they haven't surrounded him with one good team and, though he's complained, whined, and such, he's been a great player for this city and franchise for a long time. I'm hoping he is dealt because he doesn't deserve to sit through an entire rebuilding phase and by then he'll be past his prime, anyways. I just hope he gets traded to a winner like Antoine did.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

Premier said:


> Greg Oden will be a more valuable than Tim Duncan.


Now hold on a second there. I've seen Oden play and yes, he'll probably be very good, but to say that he'll be more valuable than a 3-time champ, 2-time MVP and someone who arguably will finish his career considerd by many to be one of the top ten players to ever play the game..........that's a bit of a stretch.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

my thoughts

1) they look like a 35-38 win team now, not a 25 win team.

2) they aren't tanking, they just decided that toine wasn't worth a longterm contract. which was a good decision, IMO

3) the opening day roster isn't quite yet set.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Premier said:


> Greg Oden will be a more valuable than Tim Duncan.


he sounds like a can't miss guy, but i won't go that far quite yet.

plus, if the celtics finish with the worst record they still have a 75% chance of NOT getting him. that 75% would leave them in an awfully bad position.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Delontes Herpes said:


> my thoughts
> 
> 1) they look like a 35-38 win team now, not a 25 win team.
> 
> ...


Amen.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

Lanteri said:


> Amen.



amen as well. our team wasnt great without walker last year and year we went on a great run when he got here, more on emotion IMO than anything, but yea it happened...now he's gone and we have a few young guys that need to step in...yes the other teams in the east have gotten better, but you guys are being ridiculous here...if ainge let walker walk we would here this "ainge is an a-hole we got nothing for walker wtf"...since ainge actually got something for a guy that was obviously just a fix to make a run last year and hope something magical happened, he took the chance and got anything he could back in a sign and trade. now hes not done dealing, so lets all take a freakin' chill pill and stop counting this team out already im sick and tired of it...this team and ainge are damned if they do damned if they don't and it's sad that some call themselves fans and act that way


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Delontes Herpes said:


> my thoughts
> 
> 1) they look like a 35-38 win team now, not a 25 win team.
> 
> ...


1) agreed. we were about a .500 team last season before Wiggle Man came back. The Young Guns ahave a year under their belts. 35-38 sounds about right.

2) agreed and a GREAT decision!

3) agreed. again.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

...


> Can Antoine accept playing a complimentary role on a great team?He certainly wasn't able to do it in Dallas -- they pretty much benched him by the end of the 2003 playoffs -- and in Boston last spring, after saying and doing all the right things for two months, he ended up launching 104 shots in six games during the Indiana series and carrying himself like the best guy on the court. Which he wasn't. So how will he accept being the third option behind two superstars? What will happen in Game 7 of the Eastern Finals against the Pistons or Pacers, when they're down by two with a minute and 30 seconds remaining and he's wide-open from 26 feet? Does he take the shot, even when he's playing with two much better scoring options? I think he does. You can't change who you are.
> 
> Here's the thing about 'Toine: After watching him for two months last season, I was surprised to see how much his game has slipped around the basket -- nobody in the league misses more layups and four-footers, partly because he doesn't have the hops anymore (remember, he has some miles on him -- nearly 700 regular-season games, plus another 37 playoff games in just eight seasons), partly because his free-throw shooting has slipped so much that he rushes his shots before he gets fouled. He also makes some of the worst decisions on fast breaks of anyone I've ever seen -- for instance, he botched two four-on-ones in the same half during one of those Indiana games. But if Antoine just concentrates on the things he does well -- interior defense, defensive rebounding, wide-open 3s, entry passes to big men, pick-and-rolls where he's rolling -- he could be a major asset to Miami. I guess we'll see.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Something for nothing - AND we don't have Walker signed for the next 6 years. How nice is that!!!



> Here's why that exception is valuable: Not only can they use it during the season, if they hold onto it until next summer, they can offer someone a little more than the mid-level exception. For instance, remember what happened with the Nets and Shareef Abdur-Rahim? They cut a deal with the Blazers in which Portland used New Jersey's exception, then he ended up making more money than the mid-level exception and and received an extra year on the deal? That's what that exception can do for you. You can't package it with another salary for a bigger salary, but you can sign-and-trade it or use it for any player that makes $5.5 million or less. My guess is they will keep the exception until next summer.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

my hunch is that they use the exception before new years. they have a fair amount of holes in the rotation and they can't sign anyone of significance with no cap room and the MLE pretty much gone. and it will be very hard to trade for anyone of significance without any expendable, movable contracts.

i still wouldn't be shocked to see a banks + exception for watson deal. most teams have filled their PG holes by now and i doubt memphis can field any better offers in a sign and trade scenario.

the other likely option would be to play 15-20 games with the current roster, see what they have, and then make a move to replace a weak link.

and my dream scenario is working out an exception+ allen+ whatever deal for magloire.


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

You know I would expect gloom and doom from idiots from other boards, I mean last year Toronto fans actually thought they had a better team than the Celtics, New York fans thought they were going to win the Atlantic Division, this year New Jersey fans are already annoiting themselves a championship caliber team and SAR couldn't even pass his physical, bottom line is lets play the games and see what happens, you don't know how this team is going to gel, you don't know what we are going to get from Al, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen, and Perkins. I don't think last year anyone expected teams like Washington and Chicago to be the top teams in the conference you have to play the games to see how things go, but for people to suggest that we are rebuilding or tanking to get Greg Oden that is pretty stupid. I mean how would you rather build a team by drafting smart building with young athletic talented players or by paying marginal players like Zach Randolph, Michael Redd, Larry Hughes, Joe Johnson 60-70-80 million dollars. Those teams are never going to win a championship and I will guarantee you that we will have as many wins or more wins than any of those teams. C'mon Celtic fans you have to have more faith than that.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

Amen, brotha.

Oh, and #1AWF, how does that Kool-Aid taste?

You left out much of the article...you know, the part about nobody misses more layups or 4 footers in the NBA, how many 4 on 1's Walker blew in the playoffs, his inability to mesh w/a good team in Dallas, etc. etc. etc.

You're right; the article was a good one. It also pointed out that Walker should be kissing Wyc and Danny's feet right now for getting him an extra 10-15 million over the life of the contract.

I say the Celtics did a very good thing here. Yes, they may struggle, but just in case, let's play the season anyway, OK?

Oh, and yeah, the offseason ain't over.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Truth34 said:


> Amen, brotha.
> 
> Oh, and #1AWF, how does that Kool-Aid taste?
> 
> ...


That's what I'm talking about! Some reality. 

In addition do not think it will go over-looked around the NBA that Ainge did everything he could to take care and "reward" Walker for his time here - even on the way out the door.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> Thanks, Bill. Perhaps you've forgotten 2003-2004, which was a brutal team as well. And Paul sure threw in the towel that year, didn't he?


Actually, he did. At home I still have my Pierce spreadsheet for 2003-04, including month by month breakdowns. Shortly after the Davis trade Pierce went into the tank, and didn't begin to emerge until the Celtics began playing Chucky Atkins. But in January and February of '04 he blew like the winter wind through Kendall Square.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

vandyke said:


> I don't think last year anyone expected teams like Washington and Chicago to be the top teams in the conference


Actually, some of you were ridiculing last offseason me for making the obvious statement that Washington was better than Boston. Chicago was a living tribute to the coaching skills of Scott Skiles, they caught me off guard. Not the Wiz. And before we set about declaring the rest of the Celtics squad the Atlantic Division champs, keep in mind that squad was 27-28 when the trade deadline arrived. New Jersey is healthier this season than last, and New York finally has a coach to put their pieces together. It's called realism. What Boston has is a .500 team carried by Pierce. Without Pierce they're a .333 team. The question is how long will Pierce settle for playing .500 ball for a team that is, realistically, the ninth or tenth best squad in the East? The minute his patience wears out the jig is up. And, yeah, there's going to be a free fall.



vandyke said:


> Those teams are never going to win a championship and I will guarantee you that we will have as many wins or more wins than any of those teams. C'mon Celtic fans you have to have more faith than that.


Well, since three of those four teams were among the worst in basketball (after all, they had the first three picks in the last draft) last season, it's a safe bet to say that by playing .500 ball the Celtics can stay ahead of them. But Cleveland? Surely you jest.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Hey isn't Greg Oden availible in '07?


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

Causeway said:


> That's what I'm talking about! Some reality.
> 
> In addition do not think it will go over-looked around the NBA that Ainge did everything he could to take care and "reward" Walker for his time here - even on the way out the door.



[email protected] least some of us on here are sensible and knowledgeable


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Gerald Green said:


> Hey isn't Greg Oden availible in '07?


Right, Premier is saying that the real pain will come in 2006-07 when Ricky Davis thinks of himself as the topdog and the Celtics prospects turn out to be roleplayers (with the exception of Jefferson & possibly Green), and Delonte West is still trying to play the point.


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

ehmunro said:


> Well, since three of those four teams were among the worst in basketball (after all, they had the first three picks in the last draft) last season, it's a safe bet to say that by playing .500 ball the Celtics can stay ahead of them. But Cleveland? Surely you jest.


Well certainly on paper you could say that Cleveland looks like a better team than the Celtics but can you tell me with all certainty that Cleveland will finish better than the Celtics this year? They have arguably the best player in the NBA and the second best Center in the East did they make the playoffs last year? There are too many variables, injuries, chemistry, etc. They have a new coach who has to implement a new system so unless you have a crystal ball and already know how the season is going to turn out. All I am saying is people are already predicting us with 25 and 30 wins and going into the lottery to get Greg Oden and all of that nonsense, lets just play the games and see what happens.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

vandyke said:


> Well certainly on paper you could say that Cleveland looks like a better team than the Celtics but can you tell me with all certainty that Cleveland will finish better than the Celtics this year? They have arguably the best player in the NBA and the second best Center in the East did they make the playoffs last year? There are too many variables, injuries, chemistry, etc. They have a new coach who has to implement a new system so unless you have a crystal ball and already know how the season is going to turn out. All I am saying is people are already predicting us with 25 and 30 wins and going into the lottery to get Greg Oden and all of that nonsense, lets just play the games and see what happens.



great post


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Let's be real.

We are an average team as of now and we will play near .500 ball for most of the season. We don't have an accomplished point guard. Our big men rotation is among the worst in the league and we have 12 small forwards and shooting guards all vying for two positions, where are two best players start. To be honest, Pierce deserves better than to waste his prime on a rebuilding team.

I think Ainge, without the support from the owners, has gone full into rebuilding mode (although I still don't understand the Scalabrine signing).

Does that make me less of a Celtics' fan?


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

> We are an average team as of now and we will play near .500 ball for most of the season. We don't have an accomplished point guard. Our big men rotation is among the worst in the league and we have 12 small forwards and shooting guards all vying for two positions, where are two best players start. To be honest, Pierce deserves better than to waste his prime on a rebuilding team.
> 
> I think Ainge, without the support from the owners, has gone full into rebuilding mode (although I still don't understand the Scalabrine signing).


I'm pretty confident that Ainge is not done making moves this offseason. 

And what's to understand about the Scalabrine signing? Why are people so against a 12th man who wants to play in Boston and is willing to do whatever is asked of him - getting 12th man money?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

He doesn't fit in with any of Ainge's plans.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

vandyke said:


> Well certainly on paper you could say that Cleveland looks like a better team than the Celtics but can you tell me with all certainty that Cleveland will finish better than the Celtics this year? They have arguably the best player in the NBA and the second best Center in the East did they make the playoffs last year? There are too many variables, injuries, chemistry, etc. They have a new coach who has to implement a new system so unless you have a crystal ball and already know how the season is going to turn out. All I am saying is people are already predicting us with 25 and 30 wins and going into the lottery to get Greg Oden and all of that nonsense, lets just play the games and see what happens.


Well, on _the court_ the Cavs best player is better than Boston's two best players, combined. On the court their second best player is almost as good as Boston's best player. Now, it's true, their third best player, Zydrunas, could go down with a foot injury, but then, the same is true of Lafrentz. Cleveland's big man rotation is seriously better than Boston's. Jefferson will, one day, be better than Gooden, but not today. And Anderson Verajão is certainly more energetic than Blount, and better than Perkins. Donyell Marshall is a more athletic version of Raef. Sorry, absent a trade for a tier one player, that doesn't involve the dealing of Pierce, Boston's going to struggle to maintain .500 ball. They have severely downgraded at the one and slightly downgraded at the four. That does not seem to be the recipe for 45 wins. A record they only managed by finishing the year 18-9.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> He doesn't fit in with any of Ainge's plans.


Elaborate.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Certaintly.

As evidenced by Ainge's drafting style, one could conclude that Ainge is trying to assemble a team of athletic players who can defend and run a transistion offense. Does Scalabrine do any of those things. Also, it seem more and more likely that Ainge is trying to rebuild and by signing Scalabrine to a five year contract, you have little flexibility. I would understand locking up a star for five years, but a 12th man? If Scalabrine doesn't perform up to his low expectations, he will have three more guaranteed years. Our youth movement doesn't incorporate Scalabrine.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Since Ainge arrived there are 2 players that still remain - Pierce and Blount. So the fact that Ainge is rebuilding or reassembling is pretty obvious. Scabs is what he is and there's no reason to believe he'll perform _below_ whatever people's expectations are. I personally expect him to perform above expectations but that's besides the point. So at 3 million per he's fine. We have plenty of youth so having a good character vet around actully fits in fine with this group. 

Yes worst case senario he's a major bust. But that's the worst case with anyone. And at 3 million per that's a fair gamble.

In Ainge. I trust.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

For five years?

That goes against rebuilding 101 (tired cliche, I know).


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

How does that go against rebuilding? Rebuilding does not mean sign guys for 2 years and then start over again.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

If the guy is not part of your team movement, then you do not sign him for five years. Also, you never lock up 12th man. He is a complimentary piece and will never be much more than that. You can find guys like him each free agent season for the veterans' minimum.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

But he is part of the plan. Ainge clearly wanted a solid vet to grow with the young guys. Not just a rent-a-player. He was looking for some stability and got it in Scabs. At least that's my take.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

Causeway said:


> But he is part of the plan. Ainge clearly wanted a solid vet to grow with the young guys. Not just a rent-a-player. He was looking for some stability and got it in Scabs. At least that's my take.



yep gots 2 agree HERE


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Going back to a previous post, trading Marcus Banks and the exception for Earl Watson would be the absolute worst case scenario for that exception. When the exception is used, it will be moved with Mark Blount or Paul Pierce.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Can I get some inside scoop on the "Ainge is not done dealing for the offseason" topic?

Clearly I'm missing something...


And I agree with agoo, you trade the exception with something that will make you a lot better for the future, you don't include it with your only PG to trade for another one.


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## BackwoodsBum (Jul 2, 2003)

agoo101284 said:


> Going back to a previous post, trading Marcus Banks and the exception for Earl Watson would be the absolute worst case scenario for that exception. When the exception is used, it will be moved with Mark Blount or Paul Pierce.


Gotta agree with this one. Banks may not be the answer but he's still a damn good backup point so trading him for another point would still leave us thin at that position. We are overloaded with players at the 2/3 and we still have stone hands so I'd bet money that the exception is used to either move Blount or Pierce.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

agoo101284 said:


> Going back to a previous post, trading Marcus Banks and the exception for Earl Watson would be the absolute worst case scenario for that exception. When the exception is used, it will be moved with Mark Blount or Paul Pierce.


 for more pf's


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Move Pierce with Banks and Qyntel Woods for Maggette, a resigned Marko Jaric and Lionel Chalmers... Maybe Ainge can try to send one or two second-rounders and try to bring Chris Wilcox too...

Maggette can replace Pierce (although Pierce is better)
Jaric will love to come to Boston, where he can start.
Chalmers? Nah, is just because Boston already have a lot of swingman's, and just a few PG's. Qyntel can earn some PT in Clipperdome...


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Zuca said:


> Move Pierce with Banks and Qyntel Woods for Maggette, a resigned Marko Jaric and Lionel Chalmers... Maybe Ainge can try to send one or two second-rounders and try to bring Chris Wilcox too...
> 
> Maggette can replace Pierce (although Pierce is better)
> Jaric will love to come to Boston, where he can start.
> Chalmers? Nah, is just because Boston already have a lot of swingman's, and just a few PG's. Qyntel can earn some PT in Clipperdome...


 :hurl: :rofl:


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

No.


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