# Wally: Start me or trade me



## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> Update: Szczerbiak told T-Wolves management to make him a starter next season or trade him. "If I earn a starting job, I want to be in the starting lineup," Szczerbiak told the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "That's what ticked me off this year. I came to training camp, worked my butt off, earned the starting position. For the betterment of the team, I kind of sacrificed and tried to do whatever I could to help the team. But when we didn't start playing better, it was kind of like, 'Well, now where are we at?' But if I earn a starting job in this league I want to play."
> 
> Recommendation: After missing the playoffs, the offseason will be chaotic for the T-Wolves who will likely re-work their roster to get rid of this season's bad chemistry. Szczerbiak, who came off the bench in 42 games, could be one asset to trade to bring in new blood.



http://fantasysports.yahoo.com/anal...iakouldbee&prov=rotowire&type=lgns&league=nba 







With Sprewell gone, there should be an open spot for Wally in the starting lineup.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

I have a feeling that starting isn't gonna be the most important thing for Wally, he's gonna start. The big factor in how happy he is I think will be whether Sam is here or not. At least one of those guys will gone.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

I have a feeling he will be out of here this summer. My idea of what will happen is this. Wolves draft danny gragner. Wally is traded to clevland for big Z!!! We dont want to start him. We want to start gragner and give ebi more minutes next year. I think then we can resign spree and have him start over hassell and have hassell come off the bench.....


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## TWolvesGG2144 (Apr 2, 2005)

Spree should not be re-signed under any circumstances. Socco and I were talking about this yesterday on messanger, and we both feel that Wally could very well be gone. It is much easier to play a rookie small forward big minutes than a rookie at our other two positions of need. If we can get a legit point guard, and or center for Wally, I think he's gone. Small forward may be the easiest position to learn for a college player (point guard and center take the longest to learn) coming to the NBA, and Danny Granger, Antoine Wright, and Joey Graham are a few guys who can probably play right away. I also expect us to sign Kasib Powell assuming Spree is not retained. Powell looked great in summer league and training camp for the Wolves, and I'm suprised an NBA team hasn't given him a chance yet.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Spree will be resigned. KG wants him here and he would add much needed scoring on an inconsistent basis lol. I think you keep him here for another year or 2 and have him teach a guy like granger some stuff so he becomes better.


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## TWolvesGG2144 (Apr 2, 2005)

I think you tell Spree GFY and give the money to somebody who can play. Spree has become a jumpshooter who can't shoot. We don't need more jumpshooters, we need athleticism. Taylor seems to not want him back, and I think a lot of fans will get mad if he is brought back.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

TWolvesGG2144 said:


> I think you tell Spree GFY and give the money to somebody who can play. *Spree has become a jumpshooter who can't shoot.* We don't need more jumpshooters, we need athleticism. Taylor seems to not want him back, and I think a lot of fans will get mad if he is brought back.


:yes:


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

We need that veteran streaky shooter on our team. A lot of times guys like kg will be off and spree comes through. If i had to choose between spree and griff i would pick grif, but i would like to see spree end his career here in minny.


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## momocult45 (Apr 16, 2005)

its time for spree to go especially with the talent they have needing more time like grif and ebi


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

sheefo, get off of spree's jock. the guy is not a good scorer anymore. his sub-par performances just aren't worth the attitude, personality, and other issues he brings on and off the court. the guy is simply well over his prime and it's time to move on and give the money to a younger player. it's time for him and the wolves to move on. all i can say is terrible...just terrible. (the thought of the wolves keeping spree)


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

what is hassell and hudson??? They are overpayed, unporductive, role players who got a big pay day when they had to fight for a job. Spree is a scoreer, he just isnt consistent. Even if a guy is past his prime, doesnt mean that they are no good. Unless we get a guy like wille green, i think we give spree a shot. OBVIOOUSLY not 15 mill a year again, but guys like hudson, kandi, and hassell are messing this team up too. We just automattically blame cassell and spree. They are our 3rd and 4th best scorers. I would like to see us get a guy instead of spree but the thing is, free agents only see minnesota as a team with kevin garnett and a bunch of over payed role players.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Exactly how are Hudson, Kandi, and especially Hassell screwing up this team anywhere near as much as those two other ****ers?

Kandi sucks, but he's a 7 footer, so he's of some use. I think alot of the criticism of him is primarily because he was the #1 pick. He's not a good player, but he is decent. Hudson sucks, but in the 2nd half of the season he wasn't jacking up shots nearly as much, and unlike another ****ty PG for us, he actually stayed healthy. The most puzzling is Hassell, I'm not sure how you can blame him at all. He plays 100 times the defense of Cassell and Sprewell combined, and that's even considering him not playing too well early in the year. He doesn't command shots (unlike Spree), but can hit them when needed (unlike Spree). He's also the most athletic player on the team other than Ebi. I understand you like Spree, but you gotta open your eyes man, Spree=CANCER!!


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

I think you meant ebi was the most athletic after garnett... :biggrin: 

The thing is, hassell was WAYYYYY better last year. He would actually shut guys down, he was a better shooter, and he seemed more comfortible on the floor. Now he got payed this huge contract and he cant do anything but put up 5 points a game. I also hate to say it, but truely, spree is actually better than hassell in this point of time. I know you guys are going to kill me for saying something like that but how it looks like on the court, spree is better. Hassell is no longer a shut down defender, and i am not saying spree is either. It comes down to offense though. Hassell can not hit a three if his life depended on it. I watch hassell before games and all he does is jack up 3s and he doesnt hit any. I know none of you guys agree but spree was the better player through out this last year.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

sheefo13 said:


> I think you meant ebi was the most athletic after garnett... :biggrin:
> 
> The thing is, hassell was WAYYYYY better last year. He would actually shut guys down, he was a better shooter, and he seemed more comfortible on the floor. Now he got payed this huge contract and he cant do anything but put up 5 points a game. I also hate to say it, but truely, spree is actually better than hassell in this point of time. I know you guys are going to kill me for saying something like that but how it looks like on the court, spree is better. Hassell is no longer a shut down defender, and i am not saying spree is either. It comes down to offense though. Hassell can not hit a three if his life depended on it. I watch hassell before games and all he does is jack up 3s and he doesnt hit any. I know none of you guys agree but spree was the better player through out this last year.


No kidding he was better last year...that's why he got his contract. There is a difference from this year and last in that he can't rely on anyone but KG to defend with him. I'm tired of everyone saying last year...it's history and it's over with. 

Second,Hassell was putting up 5 pts. a game last season as well. I don't think anyone came into this season expecting him to score 10-15 pts. a game. He was signed to play defense and other then garnett, he's the only one who did play defense. The other guys were all worried about getting their shots that they didn't play defense. Not to mention alot of the times we were giving up so many fast break and second chance points this season. To blame hassell for not being a shut down defender when those situations became the norm is ridiculous. if you look at the games and see when we stopped the teams and made them play a half court game, i guarantee he's that same shut down guy that we signed to a huge contract the other year. 

How is spree better? You want to talk about being over-payed. We signed him to be a compliment to KG and score CONSISTANTLY. He has not done so and his all around game is lacking as well. Look at the stats, they don't lie. This was spree's most unproductive year. Spree's stats have fallen considerably while hassell's numbers (excluding 3pt% because he's not even a three point shooter, so you're credibility with that is bogus) have stayed consistant to that over his career and last year. 

Lastly, if i'm i was offerred the timberwolves coaching job, would i want an aging shooting guard who clearly doesn't cut it anymore, people claim he's uncoachable, and is overpaid as it is. or do i want a younger defensive stopper who is going to shut down another player while hitting open jump shots when needed (not three's). from what i've heard the coach we are looking to hire must coach DEFENSE and there is nothing I would want more then the extra defensive help. With spree gone it opens up more minutes/shots for hassell, hoiberg, ebi, and any other player we should happen to sign, draft, or trade for. spree's days are numbered as it is...why sign him to another 2-3 year contract when his career has pretty much sputtered out of control this season?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Minnesota re-signing Spree? :rotf:


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## TWolvesGG2144 (Apr 2, 2005)

When it comes to Sprewell Less of LS was definitely More, wins for the Wolves last season that is. 

Jim & Tom kept stating the Wolves winning percentage was increased when Freddie played 20 minutes or more which would also mean when Sprewell played less. According to the Wolves news & notes it states that the Wolves record was 21-9 when Freddie played 20 minutes or more and since no such stats were available in Sprewell's file I decided I wanted to know how Sprewell's minutes affected the Wolves win/loss record. 

Each line includes the win/loss of the preceding line. 

7-0 when LS played 20 minutes or less. 
19-1 when LS played 25 minutes or less. 
24-6 when LS played 29 minutes or less starting to crumble from here. 

26-10 when he played his average of 30 minutes and it was all down hill when he played more including 18-26 when he played more than his average of 30 minutes. 

The Wolves were 6-16 when LS played 35-44 minutes including 0-6 when he played 40-44 minutes. 

That says to me less LS was more (wins for the Wolves) and more LS was less (wins for the Wolves). 

I also found it interesting when relating his minutes to wins over playoff teams this season. The Wolves won 13 games this season over Western Conference teams that are in the playoffs & 8 games over Eastern Conference teams. 

In 6 of the 13 Western Conference wins LS played 20 to 29 minutes to 7 wins when he played 33-40 minutes. 

In 5 of the 8 Eastern Conferences wins LS played 15-26 minutes to 3 wins when he played 31-33 minutes. 

The Wolves won 11 of their 21 games over playoff teams when he played less than his 30 minutes average. The wins also reflected that in 7 of those 21 wins FH played less than his average minutes and that the Wolves won 14 of the 21 games that he played more than his average of 16 minutes. 

I would say zero Wolves minutes for Sprewell next year would be about right.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Alright i understand. The thing is, if there is any other true scorer other than wally ( yeah kg isnt a true scorer), it is spree or sam. It is harder for sam becuase he is supposed to distribute it. 


The stats are all about minutes, not about what happens when spree contributes. Although those are good points u have shown.

The thing is with hassell, he is a mediocre defender now. He doesnt shut anyone down anymore. I dont get how you can say he is so good now when guys like lebron, carmelo, kobe, and t mac torch him every time they go against him this year. hassell = mediocre defender.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

sheefo13 said:


> The thing is with hassell, he is a mediocre defender now. He doesnt shut anyone down anymore. I dont get how you can say he is so good now when guys like lebron, carmelo, kobe, and t mac torch him every time they go against him this year. hassell = mediocre defender.


Kevin Garnett = mediocre basketball player


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

sheefo13 said:


> Alright i understand. The thing is, if there is any other true scorer other than wally ( yeah kg isnt a true scorer), it is spree or sam. It is harder for sam becuase he is supposed to distribute it.
> 
> The thing is with hassell, he is a mediocre defender now. He doesnt shut anyone down anymore. I dont get how you can say he is so good now when guys like lebron, carmelo, kobe, and t mac torch him every time they go against him this year. hassell = mediocre defender.


Spree isn't a true scorer. I can't even believe you'd say that after he averaged 12 pts. a game this year. The guy can go off for 30 but he has to take 20-25 shots to get it, and I don't want him shooting that much. We can find a replacement to put up 12+ pts. to contribute next year who has more upside. 

Cut Hassell some slack. Look who you are talking about...I don't know anyone in the league who can stop t-mac, lebron, and kobe. Carmelo...not even in the same league as the other guys. Anyway, ok...so he might've taken a step backward from last year, but to say he is simply mediocre is plain stupid. I don't even want to elaborate because I know he's not bad.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

All I know is basketball is a team game- bottom line. Last year we had team that had better scoring and better team defense. This year that went all down the tube. And to blame the defensive part of it on one guy is not ok.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

I didnt blame only him for it, I am saying everyone is overrating him on defense. Every time we play a team with an obve average g/f hassell cant control him. He cant contain tony parker, or ginobli. He cant contain tayshaun prince or rip hamilton. He hasnt only taken one step backward, he has taken about 3.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

And Spree has taken 50 steps back.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

how is everybody over-rating his defense? He wasn't up for any of the all defensive teams though he should've been last year. I wouldn't say he had an off-year, but rather an average year. You didn't mention any other player for defensive faults so I assumed you were just talking about hassell. Anyhow, he's a better player then he's given credit for and this year it didn't show because the team didn't do well. Is he part to blame? Yea, I guess so...everybody on the team needs to look themselves in the mirror and do something about their game if the team is to be better next season. But I'd rather have Trenton's average defense as you call it, then spree's inconsistent all around game. Because hassell has proven he can stop people and is still in the prime of his career. While spree is on the downside of his career and falling fast. The way I see it is a quote from the movie D-3 Might Ducks: "Unlike offense, defense never quits." Just ask last year's champs about that one. If we can get back to form with our team defense with hassell included, our offense will come as well. But spree just doesn't fit the bill anymore and everybody but you seems to see it that way.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

I agree with what you have said now. Coming into this season we all expected hassell to be one of the better defenders in the league, and he didnt come through. We expected spree and cassell to have big years and continue where they left in the playoffs, and they didnt come through. The truth is, the wolves need to deal some players and the typical na,es have been cassell and wally, but i wouldnt be surprised if we lost guys like hudson or hassell in trades.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

Yea, something has to be done to shakeup the roster. Everyone but KG is a target. We let spree walk though. I would think we could get more from world, hassell, cassell, and maybe even hudson then a sign and trade for spree. Personally, I think this year's draft is quite deep, one of the deepest in years. I wouldn't mind having a few extra picks in either round. But we would need to trade for a player of a similar salary as well, so I don't know how all that would play out. Going in, I think that a post player and true pg are necessities. 

On a brighter note...did anyone see Ray Allen at all during that first round? Man...I wish we would've kept him on the wolves in 96', or that we could sign him as a free agent...but that's just dreaming. He's in a zone and it's no wonder he's my favorite player. I knew he had it in him all along.


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