# Young Gunz/Guns, love it or hate it?



## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

I want to throw this question out there to see what people think.

Do you like the name young gunz/guns for our younger players on the team? 
What version to you like best, if any? 
Who is a member of this group?

I personally don't like the name, to me Young Guns is a movie from the late 80's, and that is where it should stay.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i think it's alright. it seems they're sticking with it so i'll go by that. i think the young gunz was basically the trio of derozan, weems, and amir. but i think ed davis would fit right in.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I don't think we have a choice in this. We have to like the Young Gunz, after all they are all we have. 

When Ed Davis was first drafted the others seemed to include him in the click, these days it seems to have reverted back to just DD, SW and AJ. 

As far as the name, I can run with it. At least it takes us away from the softy euro name we have gathered around the league, and anything that does that is just fine by me.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> i think it's alright. it seems they're sticking with it so i'll go by that. i think the young gunz was basically the trio of derozan, weems, and amir. but i think ed davis would fit right in.


How come Bargnani gets left out, he and Weems are both 24 years old right now, Andrea also has played one less year in the league than Amir? 

Does he get left out because he is a Euro, or because he was a top draft pick? Just curious because he seems to get crapped on all the time but is still very young and improving.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

I think Andrea gets left out b/c he has been in the leauge for a while now


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Love the players, don't like the nick. Its just kind of lame.

I know its supposed to say they are the future and the up and comers but its just kind of blah to me. But now that I think about it I don't know if there are any good 'group' nicknames in sports - they are all pretty dumb. I think NFL has the most nicks for D units and stuff. NHL has names for lines. NBA its mostly about bench units. The Dog Pound and the Black Hole are probably 2 of the better nfl names but those are for sections of fans. Redskins have the Hogs which is cool for O linemen.

Whatever motivates our guys is cool I guess. I just hope they take a big step forward this year.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Like it; like the movies, too.

Good to see some of the guys on our team having swagger (I refuse to say swag), having some pride in playing for Toronto, and setting some goals.

Too often it seems like the Raps are carefree mercenaries. Too, too often.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> How come Bargnani gets left out, he and Weems are both 24 years old right now, Andrea also has played one less year in the league than Amir?
> 
> Does he get left out because he is a Euro, or because he was a top draft pick? Just curious because he seems to get crapped on all the time but is still very young and improving.


bargnani a young gunz? are you kidding me? that would defeat the purpose of having young gunz.

i don't see how you can say you watch the raptors if you can't even figure out why bargnani isn't considered one of the young gunz. dude's got no passion and no motivation. and he has everything handed to him so far. free starts, free minutes, green light to shoot any shot he wants.

@speedy if you're referring to amir's youtube channel then i agree. some sick dunks in their summer dunk contest. especially the last one by derozan. just sick. amir and weems will be wearing tights.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> bargnani a young gunz? are you kidding me? that would defeat the purpose of having young gunz.
> 
> i don't see how you can say you watch the raptors if you can't even figure out why bargnani isn't considered one of the young gunz. dude's got no passion and no motivation. and he has everything handed to him so far. free starts, free minutes, green light to shoot any shot he wants.
> 
> @speedy if you're referring to amir's youtube channel then i agree. some sick dunks in their summer dunk contest. especially the last one by derozan. just sick. amir and weems will be wearing tights.


I See, kind of like how DeRozan got all the free starts last year as a rookie, and don't even try to say different. You do realize that Andre only started 2 games his rookie year right? In his second and third seasons he started 70% of the games he played, it was not till last year that he was a full-time starter, but hey, everything was handed to him on a silver platter. 

What is this great passion that DeRozan has? I see a player who played the whole season within himself, showing nice potential and the ability to make some highlight plays, but I did not see him diving into the stands or getting floor burns on a nightly basis, he was no JYD or Matt Bonner, he was good, but I must have missed this great burning passion. 

I asked about Andrea because he is as Young as some of the Young Guns, not because I feel he needs to be with the group, I know why he is not there. I can tell from your response that you just don't like him as a player and feel attacking him is better than explaining why he does not belong. If what you are trying to say is that Andrea is established in the NBA and does not have the same things to prove as the less seasoned players in that group fine, but if you are going to throw out BS facts on free starts and gifts you better check them out first. I don't think there has ever been another #1 pick that only started 2 games in their rookie year like Bargs did, but hey thanks for the gift.

To clear this up, Andrea is not my favorite player, I would love to see more out of him, but I am tired of the crap he takes when other guys on the team get a pass for their weaknesses.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I do like the Young Gunz but I have a feeling that this is a nick name that won't last. As soon as the Raptors actually get a star either through draft or free agency the spotlight would fade on the Young Gunz.

At the end what matters is production on the court. Normally I'm all for team chemistry and all that guys get along stuff but after the past god knows how long of cheering for the good guys and lose I much rather have a team that just gets down to business.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> I See, kind of like how DeRozan got all the free starts last year as a rookie, and don't even try to say different. You do realize that Andre only started 2 games his rookie year right? In his second and third seasons he started 70% of the games he played, it was not till last year that he was a full-time starter, but hey, everything was handed to him on a silver platter.
> 
> What is this great passion that DeRozan has? I see a player who played the whole season within himself, showing nice potential and the ability to make some highlight plays, but I did not see him diving into the stands or getting floor burns on a nightly basis, he was no JYD or Matt Bonner, he was good, but I must have missed this great burning passion.
> 
> ...


how did derozan not deserve his minutes last year? who did you want to start ahead of derozan? wright? weems? bellineli? derozan earned his minutes in training camp and kept it for the majority of the season.

weems eventually took derozan's spot near the end of the season after playing extremely well but both players earned their minutes.

and andrea's rookie season was very different because he was playing for sam mitch. sam mitch did not play andrea because 1) he had nesterovich who played defense, something he liked 2) andrea couldn't play defense 3) andrea wasn't ready. but as soon as sam mitch got canned andrea pretty much got all the burn he could handle and jack up all kinds of shots that he wants. andrea never showed any flashes of brilliance where he even looked remotely close to being a #1 pick in any draft. yeah no #1 pick has had less starts but very few #1 have failed to reach their potential the way andrea has.

and i did state why he does not belong. it just so happens the reason i stated were harsh and you thought they were attacks on andrea. but every criticism i made about him is warranted. he's failed as a top draft choice. he just doesn't bring anything when he's on the floor except taking a lot of jump shots on the offensive end. and despite being able to put up all the fancy looking ppg stats, when he's on the court he looks absolutely clueless. he just doesn't "get it", and he's not even trying to get it, he's just content being that mediocre player that he is. i don't see him showing frustration with his play when he plays bad and i don't see him trying to make improvements in his game. he's a frustrating player to have on your team.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

ball


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Personally I think Andrea doesn't belong in the Young Gunz because theres simply more expected of him. For Bargnani to receive praise this year he needs to put up at least 18/8, 1.5 blocks, 5+ fta/game, and 45+ FG%. If any of the young gunz put up Bargnani's numbers from last year it would be a great success for any of them.

Even though Bargnani has underachieved he's still done more than Amir/Sonny/DeRozan/Davis. To me Young Gunz right now are just a group of guys trying to prove that they are starters or even just solid rotation players in the NBA. As little as what Bargnani has done so far he is at least past that stage. With the exception of Amir the other 3 are all playing for their 1st big payday in the NBA.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> and andrea's rookie season was very different because he was playing for sam mitch. sam mitch did not play andrea because 1) he had nesterovich who played defense, something he liked 2) andrea couldn't play defense 3) andrea wasn't ready. but as soon as sam mitch got canned andrea pretty much got all the burn he could handle and jack up all kinds of shots that he wants. andrea never showed any flashes of brilliance where he even looked remotely close to being a #1 pick in any draft. yeah no #1 pick has had less starts but very *few #1 have failed to reach their potential the way andrea has*.


Really? Since 1990 (newer era) there have been many #1 picks that have not done as well as Andrea, and probably more could be added to the list as being not as good as AB by the time his career is over. I will give you the few I see now as having a worse career than Andrea. 

In no particular order

Joe Smith
Kwame Brown
Michael Olowokandi

And here are the rest that I am sure he will go down as having a better career than.

Derrick Coleman
Andrew Bogut
Greg Oden
Larry Johnson
Glen Robinson

Some of these guys had better starts to their NBA careers than Andrea has, but they were either relatively short lived and crashed (Coleman, Johnson) or were short careers of 10 years (Robinson, Johnson). If Bargnani continues to improve and has a 15 year career he will have the ability to pass a few more guys. As it stands 8 out of 19 (not counting Wall or Griffin as they have not played) puts hi as being a better #1 pick than 42% of the guys picked in the 20 years, sure he is not Lebron, but he is not a bust. 

You can make the argument for injuries for some, but I am looking at it from production and career, not excuses. 

As for DeRozan starting, I would have started the year with Wright as the starter, he brought toughness and defense that may have helped get the team off to a better start, God knows Bosh was not getting any stops to start a game off. This would of allowed Demar to be a bigger focal point of the second unit and take on a larger scoring roll. Hind site all his starts should prepare him well for this year where he should continue to grow into a solid contributor, but right now I don't see him being an allstar any time soon.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> Joe Smith
> Kwame Brown
> Michael Olowokandi
> 
> ...


kwame brown and kandi man are the only two clearly worst players than him. and is that what you want to compare andrea to? kandi man and kwame brown?

and way too soon on saying he'll be better than any of the guys on the second list. at this pace he'll be worse than some of them, especially bogut. if bucks would trade us bogut i would do that trade in a heartbeat. johnson, coleman, robinson were exactly the same as andrea. didn't perform up to expectations but put up really pretty numbers.

i think you'll have a hard time finding people who don't think andrea is a bust. really tough.

as for antoine wright starting, that is ridiculous. wright plays aggressively on defense but he's just such a liability on offense. i can't say anybody is missing wright even if he's gone next year. i think everybody's glad with the playing time given to derozan to help him develop.

and with derozan being a star guard, i think at least he has all the tools. it's just up to our coaching staff and his work ethic to see if he can make good use of those tools. he's one of the best athletes in the league, is a good 6'5-6'6 with a good frame, and has good fundamentals. sure you would like someone who's 6'8 with the same athletism and even bigger frame but then you see guys like wade being one of the best sg's in the league at 6'4. the raw talent is there and he is our best chance of getting a star player any time soon.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

There are a bunch of utube links up showing Sonny, DeMar and a couple of friends playing full court ball against some local kids at a Thornhill rec centre.

Its just goof around pickup ball but it is interesting to see S & D interacting with regular fans on the court like that. They are really making an effort to get out there in the community and enjoy being celebrities in town. Sonny was smack talking everyone which was funny.

Supposedly some guy invited them on twitter and they made arrangements.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

These guys aren't really worth a nickname yet so it's pretty stupid in my opinion.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

According to someone's twitter NBA sent a notice to the Raptors telling them that they will not be allowed to market the trio under the name "Young Gunz".

You can thank Gilbert Arenas for that.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> According to someone's twitter NBA sent a notice to the Raptors telling them that they will not be allowed to market the trio under the name "Young Gunz".
> 
> You can thank Gilbert Arenas for that.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17241 This is a good article for Sonny Weems fans, he talks about the nickname and his off-season.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

they now called themselves the "young onez" i dont know what to say or make out of it, but you guys can peep their new website.

youngonez.com


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## Juggernaut (Jul 20, 2010)

kirk_2003 said:


> they now called themselves the "young onez" i dont know what to say or make out of it, but you guys can peep their new website.
> 
> youngonez.com


I love this. Love the attitude the 3 of them are bringing. 

Under chants...

Uno, Dos, Tres!
(To be said after a Raptors 3 pointer. Put up your three fingers)

Oh Toronto, you so funny.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Can we now include Bayless in the "Young Gunz/Guns"?


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