# The Magic Blues



## SLSI (Nov 25, 2003)

The Magic are in trouble this season. 

First off Tyronn Lue is not really what you call a starting point guard. Sure he averages 13.9 points per game, but on any other team he would be a bench player and would play 20 to 25 minutes per game. Currently in Orlando, he plays 35 minutes per game, which is too much for him. Tyronn Lue is at his best on a veteran team in which he is not required to do much. Lue a starter? NO. Lue a solid bench player? YES.

McGrady is a very solid player, however, he is not someone that can really lead a team, especially in a losing environment. When your leading player, and captain, tells reporters that he will retire at the end of the season because his team is playing poorly, then that “leading” player is no longer a leader, and a very poor teammate at best.

Next, you have Gordan Giricek in the starting lineup, probably my favourite player of all Magic players. Last season with the Magic, he averaged 14.3 points per game in around 34 minutes per game. This year his minutes have gone down to 28 minutes per game, and his point average to 10.4. Giricek was one of the injured players to start the season, and should start playing and scoring more once he is back to 100 percent. He has a very pure touch from the outside, and is a very nice addition to this team. Along with his nice shooting touch, Giricek can also drive to the bucket.

Juwan Howard has been a deep disappointment for the Magic this season. After signing with the Magic to play centre and compliment Drew Gooden, Howard has found himself overwhelmed with the starting job. Shooting only .401 from the field and only 13.8 points in the paint, Howard has found himself now sharing the job at the power forward position with Drew Gooden. When the Magic signed Howard they expected a 20 point per game guy, who could also get them 10 boards per game, and a guy who would be the second scoring option to Tracy McGrady. They expected too much.

Lastly, we have Drew Gooden. Two words for this guy. Over Rated. Last year, in 28.6 minutes per game, he averaged 13.6 points per game, and shooting .498 from the field. Now, welcome to 2003-2004: averaging only 11.5 points per game, in an increase of 34.3 minutes per game, and shooting a mere .397 from the field. Again, two words for Drew Gooden this season. Over Rated. 

If the Magic are to have any chance to succeed this season, the likes of Drew Gooden, Juwan Howard, and Gordan Giricek have to pick up the slack and start producing. Tracy McGrady is not a leader, especially not one in a non-winning environment. One of these other guys on the Magic needs to say enough is enough, show some leadership, and start to have a bigger role in the games.

If this doesn’t happen then the Magic are in trouble this season.

*-SLSI-*


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SLSI</b>!
> The Magic are in trouble this season.
> 
> First off Tyronn Lue is not really what you call a starting point guard. Sure he averages 13.9 points per game, but on any other team he would be a bench player and would play 20 to 25 minutes per game. Currently in Orlando, he plays 35 minutes per game, which is too much for him. Tyronn Lue is at his best on a veteran team in which he is not required to do much. Lue a starter? NO. Lue a solid bench player? YES.
> ...


It doesn't matter anymore. Either they make the playoffs or they dont.

Can someone tell me how many games behind the Magic are from the 8th seed in the East? BTW, nice post even though I don't agree with everything in there. 

thanks


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: Re: The Magic Blues*



> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter anymore. Either they make the playoffs or they dont.
> ...


Though it's still too early for it to mean much, the Magic are 4.5 games behind the two teams tied for 8th place (Washington & Boston). You have to figure that when things are all said and done, in order to make the playoffs you have to be about a .500 team. Even being generous and thinking that you'll only need 38-39 wins in the weak east, the Magic would still have to go 37-31 over the rest of the season to reach that mark (40-28 to reach .500). That doesn't seem too bad, but considering where they are at now, it'll take some work.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

> The Magic are in trouble this season


Thank yoooooouuuuu so much Mr. Obvious! I'm still trying to figure out why this thread even exists.....


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Moved. Please don't put all your team-specific threads in the main NBA thread, thanks.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> Thank yoooooouuuuu so much Mr. Obvious! I'm still trying to figure out why this thread even exists.....


He is new here first of all.. And he has the right to post here..


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

It will take atleast 40 wins to make the playoffs. Probably 41 or 42. If they made it with 40 wins that would be very lucky, but let's look at it. That's a record of:

39-29.

Can they achieve that? Certainly, but it won't be easy. In March they still have another West Coast swing. Still a couple of games in Indiana, a couple of games in Detroit, and a couple games in New Orleans. They aren't eliminated now, but they better make up serious ground in December or then we can write them off.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SLSI</b>!
> The Magic are in trouble this season.
> he is not someone that can really lead a team, especially in a losing environment. When your leading player, and captain, tells reporters that he will retire at the end of the season because his team is playing poorly, then that “leading?player is no longer a leader, and a very poor teammate at best.
> *-SLSI-*


Hmm, What does this say about my posts on McGrady, Dee Bo and The MaGiC?


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

*Re: Re: The Magic Blues*



> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Hmm, What does this say about my posts on McGrady, Dee Bo and The MaGiC?


Absolutely nothing... its an opinion.. it does not mean its fact.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: The Magic Blues*



> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Absolutely nothing... its an opinion.. it does not mean its fact.


Why don't I see flaming on SLSI? Now don't give me a stupid reason...


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: The Magic Blues*



> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Why don't I see flaming on SLSI? Now don't give me a stupid reason...


Because he put it in a much more sensible manner than you did. 

Its all good, people can bash Tmac now as much as they want, it is easy to go after someone who is down. But we wont be hearing anything once he and the team bounce back.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Magic Blues*



> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> Because he put it in a much more sensible manner than you did.


No, its more like you being in a bad mood at the time I said that while you were in a good mood at the time he said that? Or maybe you simply hate me while you simply like him?


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Magic Blues*



> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> No, its more like you being in a bad mood at the time I said that while you were in a good mood at the time he said that? Or maybe you simply hate me while you simply like him?


Uh.. not really.. Dee Bo is right.. The SLSI guy put it in a more sensible way and isn't constantly bashing T-mac for no reason and underrating him... The rest of SLSI's post (intelligence in the post) is enough to back up his statements so there is no need to 'flame' SLSI or anyone for that matter who takes the time to post 'smart posts' and doesn't just want to start conflicts for no reason..etc. BTW, how would mood mean anything.. Magic are down...magic are still down even MORE so technically we would be even more angry according to your brilliant logic..


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Magic Blues*



> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> No, its more like you being in a bad mood at the time I said that while you were in a good mood at the time he said that? Or maybe you simply hate me while you simply like him?


Nope, wrong on all counts. Why would I "hate" anyone on here. Hate takes so much energy, just really isnt worth it. He stated his _opinion_ in a more mature fashion than yourself, so he will end up getting more mature responses.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Hey smart guys. When you say his post is mature, are you referring to the whole post, or just this:
_"McGrady is a very solid player, however, he is not someone that can really lead a team, especially in a losing environment. When your leading player, and captain, tells reporters that he will retire at the end of the season because his team is playing poorly, then that “leading” player is no longer a leader, and a very poor teammate at best."_
Yes, the other things he said sounded mature, but how does this differ from what I said about McGrady? That this is a more mature opinion about Tmac than mine? Pfft, don't give me that lame reason.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Hey smart guys. When you say his post is mature, are you referring to the whole post, or just this:
> _"McGrady is a very solid player, however, he is not someone that can really lead a team, especially in a losing environment. When your leading player, and captain, tells reporters that he will retire at the end of the season because his team is playing poorly, then that “leading” player is no longer a leader, and a very poor teammate at best."_
> Yes, the other things he said sounded mature, but how does this differ from what I said about McGrady? That this is a more mature opinion about Tmac than mine? Pfft, don't give me that lame reason.


Man, you need to learn some vocab. Not sure how that would qualify as an excuse.

Either way, why don't you just drop it and get over it. His entire post as a whole was much more mature and thought out. Therefore his post will illicit a much better response than what you were saying.

Pfft.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Man, you need to learn some vocab. Not sure how that would qualify as an excuse.





> Either way, why don't you just drop it and get over it. His entire post as a whole was much more mature and thought out. Therefore his post will illicit a much better response than what you were saying.
> 
> Pfft.


I know that:sigh: I am arguing only about that 1 particular paragraph, not the other paragraphs. :sigh:


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Find something better to do than start lame arguements like this. We already told you why we give SLSI more respect. Its because he doesn't continuously post ridiculous messages about how T-mac isn't a leader, T-mac sucks. etc.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

What? How was his post "thought out"? It was a bunch of crap that was already obvious to everyone. We already knew every single word he said. He's not even a Magic fan, he just made that post to remind us of everything that's wrong with the team, even though it was all already clear. He's just trying to be annoying. Do we go to the other team's boards and go through everything that's wrong with their team? He's didn't make a mature post, he made a pointless thread.  

The Magic are in trouble this season. Gee, ya think?


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Magic suck.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>compsciguy78</b>!
> Magic suck.


Wow, that was profoundly unique while obviously using unmatched intellectual analysis. The argument which you based that simple yet loud statement was unsurpasable. I am flabbergasted by your post.
Now on to something serious...I agree with The MAgiC in his previous post that this topic is redundant, and I don't believe the Magic are in jeopardy of breaking the worst record ever (although at this rate, we most definitely are). Every team has a slump, and every good player  has a slump. It's known that Duncan usually has a slow start to the season, then blows up for the rest. Obviously the "veteran exception" for training camp was not a good idea, looking at not only the Magic but the L's shooting percentage. Things will turn around, there is no way that we continue this abysmal run for the rest of the season.
Players often speak out of frustration, and I believe that is what McGrady was doing when he referred to "retiring" early this month. Of course, nobody in their right mind actually believed McGrady when he said it (or at least I hope) because he was talking out of frustration towards the Teams record BECAUSE he is the leader. If McGrady was not a leader, he would not try and set a fire under the team. Yes, I am aware that McGrady has periods were you could seriously doubt that he is a leader...but doesn't every young player have this problem? Jordan wasn't a leader straight away either. Actually few are, possibly Magic could be considered a leader straight away...but you have to remember, McGrady did not go to college (which is his fault) so he did not have the oppurtunity to lead a team in college before the NBA. That would give McGrady a couple years behind in leadership compared to other college athletes who have led their respective teams.


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## SLSI (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Hey smart guys. When you say his post is mature, are you referring to the whole post, or just this:
> _"McGrady is a very solid player, however, he is not someone that can really lead a team, especially in a losing environment. When your leading player, and captain, tells reporters that he will retire at the end of the season because his team is playing poorly, then that “leading” player is no longer a leader, and a very poor teammate at best."_
> Yes, the other things he said sounded mature, but how does this differ from what I said about McGrady? That this is a more mature opinion about Tmac than mine? Pfft, don't give me that lame reason.


I do not see the reason why you get mad and offended by my post. Obviously you said something that insulted these Magic fans, and now you are trying to hold your ground for your insult. They have a right to criticize you, and you should not complain about that.





> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> Man, you need to learn some vocab. Not sure how that would qualify as an excuse.
> 
> Either way, why don't you just drop it and get over it. His entire post as a whole was much more mature and thought out. Therefore his post will illicit a much better response than what you were saying.
> ...


Nicely said Dee Bo  




> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> What? How was his post "thought out"? It was a bunch of crap that was already obvious to everyone. We already knew every single word he said. He's not even a Magic fan, he just made that post to remind us of everything that's wrong with the team, even though it was all already clear. He's just trying to be annoying. Do we go to the other team's boards and go through everything that's wrong with their team? He's didn't make a mature post, he made a pointless thread.
> 
> The Magic are in trouble this season. Gee, ya think?


Although I welcome constructive critisism, I think you are out of line by calling my post crap. I think that the post you made was _crap_ because you obviously don't know that a tool known as a spell checker has been invented. 




> Originally posted by <b>nba_playa</b>!
> Wow, that was profoundly unique while obviously using unmatched intellectual analysis. The argument which you based that simple yet loud statement was unsurpasable. I am flabbergasted by your post.
> Now on to something serious...I agree with The MAgiC in his previous post that this topic is redundant, and I don't believe the Magic are in jeopardy of breaking the worst record ever (although at this rate, we most definitely are). Every team has a slump, and every good player has a slump. It's known that Duncan usually has a slow start to the season, then blows up for the rest. Obviously the "veteran exception" for training camp was not a good idea, looking at not only the Magic but the L's shooting percentage. Things will turn around, there is no way that we continue this abysmal run for the rest of the season.
> Players often speak out of frustration, and I believe that is what McGrady was doing when he referred to "retiring" early this month. Of course, nobody in their right mind actually believed McGrady when he said it (or at least I hope) because he was talking out of frustration towards the Teams record BECAUSE he is the leader. If McGrady was not a leader, he would not try and set a fire under the team. Yes, I am aware that McGrady has periods were you could seriously doubt that he is a leader...but doesn't every young player have this problem? Jordan wasn't a leader straight away either. Actually few are, possibly Magic could be considered a leader straight away...but you have to remember, McGrady did not go to college (which is his fault) so he did not have the oppurtunity to lead a team in college before the NBA. That would give McGrady a couple years behind in leadership compared to other college athletes who have led their respective teams.


Nicely said!  


*-SLSI-*


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Find something better to do than start lame arguements like this. We already told you why we give SLSI more respect. Its because he doesn't continuously post ridiculous messages about how T-mac isn't a leader, T-mac sucks. etc.


Oh man. I guess I got to live my life with Orlando Magic fans who basically change a negative comment (in their eyes) Magic-related to a positive comment.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh man. I guess I got to live my life with Orlando Magic fans who basically change a negative comment (in their eyes) Magic-related to a positive comment.


Oh yeah. And I'm still trying to figure out how all of you say I was "arguing" when I was basically trying to find out how SLSI's McGrady comment differed from mine aside the "matureness" of my post. But then y'all keep saying Oh, because your post was less mature than his. Thats not stating the main reason why his comment differed from mine. 

Pfft, I'm done.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>nba_playa</b>!
> 
> Wow, that was profoundly unique while obviously using unmatched intellectual analysis. The argument which you based that simple yet loud statement was unsurpasable. I am flabbergasted by your post.
> Now on to something serious...I agree with The MAgiC in his previous post that this topic is redundant, and I don't believe the Magic are in jeopardy of breaking the worst record ever (although at this rate, we most definitely are). Every team has a slump, and every good player has a slump. It's known that Duncan usually has a slow start to the season, then blows up for the rest. Obviously the "veteran exception" for training camp was not a good idea, looking at not only the Magic but the L's shooting percentage. Things will turn around, there is no way that we continue this abysmal run for the rest of the season.
> Players often speak out of frustration, and I believe that is what McGrady was doing when he referred to "retiring" early this month. Of course, nobody in their right mind actually believed McGrady when he said it (or at least I hope) because he was talking out of frustration towards the Teams record BECAUSE he is the leader. If McGrady was not a leader, he would not try and set a fire under the team. Yes, I am aware that McGrady has periods were you could seriously doubt that he is a leader...but doesn't every young player have this problem? Jordan wasn't a leader straight away either. Actually few are, possibly Magic could be considered a leader straight away...but you have to remember, McGrady did not go to college (which is his fault) so he did not have the oppurtunity to lead a team in college before the NBA. That would give McGrady a couple years behind in leadership compared to other college athletes who have led their respective teams.


I'm just being a ***** and giving you Magic fans a hard time. You guys will get it together before the season is over. If you don't, just be happy that you will learn from these mistakes and get the right players in the offseason. It's not like you were going to win the championship.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>compsciguy78</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm just being a ***** and giving you Magic fans a hard time. You guys will get it together before the season is over. If you don't, just be happy that you will learn from these mistakes and get the right players in the offseason. It's not like you were going to win the championship.


You have to expect to get a reaction with a comment like that. Anyone who supports a team only to see them 1-14 is going to react to something like that .. sure you would too.

I have no doubt the team will turn it around .. watching them you can slowly see guys getting better. Like Harvey and Juwan are starting to contribute. Unfortunately, at the same time, Gooden is struggling mightily and Lue is struggling some too. Just no luck right now.

At this point, I think i'd rather the team miss the playoffs and get a shot at a difference maker at C or PG.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh yeah. And I'm still trying to figure out how all of you say I was "arguing" when I was basically trying to find out how SLSI's McGrady comment differed from mine aside the "matureness" of my post. But then y'all keep saying Oh, because your post was less mature than his. Thats not stating the main reason why his comment differed from mine.
> ...


Hey, we all hate you. We can't stand you. Just because you are you, we all will disregard and fight anything you post.

Is that what you are looking for? Hope you feel better now.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey, we all hate you. We can't stand you. Just because you are you, we all will disregard and fight anything you post.
> ...


I'm looking for an answer on how his comment differed from mine aside the matureness. What part of that can't you understand? 

Peace


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>compsciguy78</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm just being a ***** and giving you Magic fans a hard time. You guys will get it together before the season is over. If you don't, just be happy that you will learn from these mistakes and get the right players in the offseason. It's not like you were going to win the championship.


Knowing Gabriel, we probably won't get the right players in the offseason even if we have the first pick. I don't think Gabriel brings anything but fear to the Magic fans in another draft pick being wasted when far better talent has been drafted behind us. Gabriel obviously hasn't learnt from any mistakes, he's still drafting tall guards trying to make them into points (ala Sasser and Gaines), we don't have any problem with height at the SG position with McGrady...and a tall point won't make up for a short center no matter what he thinks. Pfff, I want Gabriel out...he was more deserving than Doc.


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