# Amare's knee still isn't right



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

He's not playing in the game today after more problems with the knee.

I think we're looking at Mcdysses pt. Deux here.

So disapointing. I don't feel like I appreciated Amare enough when we had him. And now we'll never see that player again.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

I heard while watching the Clippers preseason game that he could be out for the first two months of the season.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Amare's in a rough spot. I'm sure Amareca will show up and spin it to being just slight pain and that noone has come back so soon and what not, but right now it's not looking good. He hasn't gotten over the mental hurdle of having major surgery. He keeps overcompensating for the knee that is currently hurting and it makes the other knee get worse. I have no expectations for Amare, so if he even comes back and plays this year I'll be happy. I of course haven't written him off, but it's more to the point of "I'm going to stop thinking about it and believe it when I see it." And that's coming from an optimist.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)




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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

No offense, but I want to see him hindered with my own eyes. 

Plenty of players were never supposed to be the same, even considering the guys who in fact were never the same, I'll reserve judgement.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

What's the timetable for his return?


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> No offense, but I want to see him hindered with my own eyes.
> 
> Plenty of players were never supposed to be the same, even considering the guys who in fact were never the same, I'll reserve judgement.


He's been looking good when he plays, it's just that he doesn't usually play when pain is there. The other day was the first time he played through it, and he did well. But then the next day both knees were hurting.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Yeah, I lost hope for Amare when he tried to come back that first time. If almost a year on the shelf doesn't get you feeling better, then it might be time to accept that he just won't be the same. The track record of that surgery backs me up on that. 

As it is, it's been two offseasons and an entire regular season, and the knee still isn't the same. That's very bad news. I think we've seen the last of the Amare Stoudemire that dunked anything within 7 feet of the hoop.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

SheedSoNasty said:


> What's the timetable for his return?


There isn't one. One day he feels so good that he says he'll be 100%. The next day he says he can't go and it's getting worse. I think he'll play early in the season, but will take a lot of games off until it gets better.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

This is even frustrating for me as a Grizz fan. I can't imagine what it's like for actual Suns fans, let alone Amare _himself_.

My goodness...


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> He's not playing in the game today after more problems with the knee.
> 
> I think we're looking at Mcdysses pt. Deux here.
> 
> So disapointing. I don't feel like I appreciated Amare enough when we had him. And now we'll never see that player again.


Did you watch the game, or is there a source to this topic?
Just curious, because if there is an article, i would like to read it myself.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Did you watch the game, or is there a source to this topic?
> Just curious, because if there is an article, i would like to read it myself.


The game is on NBA TV right now and they've been talking about it. But most of this comes from Amare himself in an azrepublic.com interview by Paul Coro. I'll link later, but the game's back on.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Well if this is true, it's a loss to the game.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> The game is on NBA TV right now and they've been talking about it. But most of this comes from Amare himself in an azrepublic.com interview by Paul Coro. I'll link later, but the game's back on.


Ok, thanks for the info!


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Amare's Knees Cause Concern


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Rawse said:


> This is even frustrating for me as a Grizz fan. I can't imagine what it's like for actual Suns fans, let alone Amare _himself_.
> 
> My goodness...



same here...


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

Anyone watching Suns game now? It seems NBA wants this game so much that refs are going frenzy. Can someone explain the situaition when Bodiroga made over the back pass and Ilievski was thrown to the ground. How can you see offensive foul there???


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Zalgirinis said:


> Anyone watching Suns game now? It seems NBA wants this game so much that refs are going frenzy. Can someone explain the situaition when Bodiroga made over the back pass and Ilievski was thrown to the ground. How can you see offensive foul there???


That was a bad call. They happen. Please, it's too early in the season to start whining about the refs. :biggrin:


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> That was a bad call. They happen.


They do happen, but so often and so onesided? Im not talking about different rules here, but about same situations but not equal calls. They call almost no-contact which happens every usual attack an offensive foul for Roma, and then Marcus Banks runs into standing and not moving italian, they call it for italian. One is bad calls in the game, other when one team is killed by 10 bad calls in a row already in a first half.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

Who cares, he was a product of D'Antoni / Steve Nash....I'm from Orlando, seen him play since highschool, He's just an athlete.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Amare can play. He still hasn't gotten his knees to the point where
he can play a season without worrying about his knees. All I care for right now is if he can play come the playoffs. I think the pain issues should be stopped by then and he'll be ready to go even if it is 85% of the old Amare. He still can be a presences with the Suns. I'm not going to throw the towel in because he isn't ready for preseason.


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## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> Who cares, he was a product of D'Antoni / Steve Nash....I'm from Orlando, seen him play since highschool, He's just an athlete.



he was being compared to the legends of the game at 20 and was supposed to be the greatest power forward to ever play the game. Legends and analysts arent gonna say that if ur just an athlete. i really cant believe u just said that. the kid averaged 35 points a game a night on the best defender in the game in his last playoff stint at 21 years old.


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## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

but does anybody knw how bad the suns are whoopin roma?


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> Who cares, he was a product of D'Antoni / Steve Nash....I'm from Orlando, seen him play since highschool, He's just an athlete.


He was just an athlete back then. Absolutely not the case in 2004-05. He blossomed. He gained an outside shot that hit with consistency. He learned to put the ball on the floor and his basketball IQ had much improved.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> *he was being compared to the legends of the game at 20 and was supposed to be the greatest power forward to ever play the game.* Legends and analysts arent gonna say that if ur just an athlete. i really cant believe u just said that. the kid averaged 35 points a game a night on the best defender in the game in his last playoff stint at 21 years old.



i don't know about all that...


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> i don't know about all that...


For real, but I was just playin.....Amare is nice, like I said I seen him play at Cypress Creek, my boy used to be real tight with the dude.

I knew Amare was for real when he put up something like 37 and 14 on KG in Minnesota his Rookie year.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> That was a bad call. They happen. Please, it's too early in the season to start whining about the refs. :biggrin:


The season can't start soon enough to start complaining about them :banana:


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## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> i don't know about all that...


yea, i wouldnt believe it if i wasnt an everyday amare watcher in 2004-2005 but im sure i have plenty of backup on this board when i say, if amare wasnt injury plagued, he would have gone down as the best power forward to ever play the game.

plus i remember rookie year, about after a month or so into the season, all the analysts were raving about him and they were saying how he was the next great 1.


i really cant believe im explaining myself right now. lets see dwight howard do this.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Yx4FAeFSPzY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Yx4FAeFSPzY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

on elton brand


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

KG / Duncan > Amare


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## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dhJLpZ69utw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dhJLpZ69utw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

dominance


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Amare was a beast in the one really great season he had. If it so happens that Amare isn't ever the same athletically, everyone will see that he didn't rely on athleticism as much as people thought. Even with average athleticism, I think he'll be able to be a good 2nd or 3rd option scorer. 

The problem he'll have without the explosiveness and athleticism is defense and rebounding. He wasn't a good defender or rebounder even at his physical peak. He'll have to hit the weights hard and become a more grounded physical defender, instead of the jumping jack he was before. He'll have to really put some work in at that end to become a good defender and rebounder.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> yea, i wouldnt believe it if i wasnt an everyday amare watcher in 2004-2005 but im sure i have plenty of backup on this board when i say, if amare wasnt injury plagued, he would have gone down as the best power forward to ever play the game.
> 
> plus i remember rookie year, about after a month or so into the season, all the analysts were raving about him and they were saying how he was the next great 1.
> 
> ...


Dude if you are going on freakish athleticism, there are quite a couple of big men that were just as good as Amare.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> yea, i wouldnt believe it if i wasnt an everyday amare watcher in 2004-2005 but im sure i have plenty of backup on this board when i say, if amare wasnt injury plagued, he would have gone down as the best power forward to ever play the game.
> 
> plus i remember rookie year, about after a month or so into the season, all the analysts were raving about him and they were saying how he was the next great 1.
> 
> ...


 :mrt: great example of what he *won't* be doing from now on...

i'm sure every good/great player has dunked on every other good/great player in the league. it's bound to happen. but your claim that he could've been the greatest pf...blah blah blah...

better than duncan? how about malone? how about dirk nowitzki? you familiar with these guys?

i don't know where your hostility comes from. i'm just saying that anyone can be the greatest of all time theoretically, but actual production counts on the floor, not would've could've, and should've's...


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## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

If this is true, I really hope he worked on his rebounding.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> yea, i wouldnt believe it if i wasnt an everyday amare watcher in 2004-2005 but im sure i have plenty of backup on this board when i say, if amare wasnt injury plagued, he would have gone down as the best power forward to ever play the game.
> 
> plus i remember rookie year, about after a month or so into the season, all the analysts were raving about him and they were saying how he was the next great 1.
> 
> ...


seriously, you posting that clip is like me posting this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWvH2l1-_dQ

nothing to do with the discussion at all...


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Zalgirinis said:


> They do happen, but so often and so onesided? Im not talking about different rules here, but about same situations but not equal calls. They call almost no-contact which happens every usual attack an offensive foul for Roma, and then Marcus Banks runs into standing and not moving italian, they call it for italian. One is bad calls in the game, other when one team is killed by 10 bad calls in a row already in a first half.


Understand that 2 of those officials are NBA officials....the stupidest, most incompetent people on earth.


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## Goubot (Aug 16, 2006)

This is really a damn shame, I hate to see this happen to players.


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## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

amare was the next dominating big man...

now he might be the next grant hill


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

fruitcake said:


> amare was the next dominating big man...
> 
> now he might be the next grant hill


errrr grant hill relied on his athleticism, but played a completely different position. i would say more like danny manning, except younger. eek


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

I think what we're seeing right now is him going through the mental pain. To him even the slightest pain worries him and he's scared that he might ruin his legs. Every player who had this surgery went through a time where they were hesitant about everything they did because they were scared of what might happen to their legs


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## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

clips_r_teh_wieners said:


> *errrr grant hill relied on his athleticism, but played a completely different position. i *would say more like danny manning, except younger. eek


i think i know that. that wasn't the point. the point, was he was on the verge of becoming a legend and then a serious injury ruined his career.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

How did Amare even get injured in the first place?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Seed said:


> I think what we're seeing right now is him going through the mental pain. To him even the slightest pain worries him and he's scared that he might ruin his legs. Every player who had this surgery went through a time where they were hesitant about everything they did because they were scared of what might happen to their legs


This is actually a good point. I also read somewhere that Amare is hesitant to play through pain. Suns fans would know better though


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Microfracture surgery seemed to be successfull in football but not in basketball. Why are guys continuing to have this surgery in bball. Its burchering careers. Maybe its a surgery of last resort. Amare injury happened it seems away from the NBA game, after the season, he was smoking Duncan and next thing you heard he was having surgery. 

Amare didn't have enough variety in his game to now change his game and be as effective. Cwebb had enough other stuff in his game that he now is a consistent 20-10 guy who can still pass it. He was never a great defender although a good shot blocker in his physical prime. 

Amare's mentality might keep him from being a different type of player. He is the bull in the china shop, he attacks using his athleticism. Will he as someone suggested be happy being a 2nd or 3rd option. 

Its a shame though that you hear stuff out of the Suns about getting sck of this roller coaster and those sorts of things. He was the reason they sorta re-emerged as a franchise. He could stare down the other teams bigs. Now the team seems ready to just roll on without him. 

How quickly things change.


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## BootyKing (Apr 7, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> How did Amare even get injured in the first place?


There wasn't a set incident where he injured himself. It was just from wear and tear, he developed soreness and had an MRI which became microfracture surgery,


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Sigh, what a loss if his knee doesn't get back. At least with a guy like Webber he at least played in his prime relatively injury free


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

It is really too bad. I do think he can come back and be effective but I can't see him ever being what he could have been. A real shame. It sucks when injuries take guys like Amare, Penny, GHill, etc out of the game.


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## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

The Suns owe this guy roughly about 73 million for next 5 years, yikes!! Very big gamble there. Can you say Brian Grant?? Anyway, Suns should just sit him out until the AllStar break and bring him back when he's really ready, there's no point in jeopardizing his next 4 years just to see him this year.

Hell, they should just sit him out for another year, I'm still optimistic about Amare, medical technology is improving quickly he might not be himself this year or the next but in 3 years?? he'll hit his prime age and his knee could be much better by then. We can only hope.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

What a damn shame.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> .
> 
> 
> i really cant believe im explaining myself right now. lets see dwight howard do this.
> ...


I think he traveled on this play.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> I think he traveled on this play.



Technically, he did.


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## Stefan Nellemoes (Apr 9, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> I think he traveled on this play.


Who doesn't travel in the NBA today?


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

_Dre_ said:


> How did Amare even get injured in the first place?


this is a good question that isnt brought up much

didnt he not tell the Suns he needed surgery (arthroscopic at first), until after he signed the contract extension? Must of hurt it in workouts or something in the offseason, but right now the max entension he signed is looking kind of like smug timing that Amare did with the Suns.......

but he did get paid...


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## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

how bout everybody shuts up and doesnt say a thing until u witness him being the next danny manning urself. u guys have no respect watsoever. He traveled on the play? get a life man seriously if u cant respect what hes going through enough to talk crap when hes down, ur a punk. im speaking in general.

not to mention, half of u are 6'0'' white males that cant even get even get above the rim to save ur life, and here we have amare off microfracture surgery that is till more athletic than u. quit talking ****.

and thats not from a homer, its from a fan of the game.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> how bout everybody shuts up and doesnt say a thing until u witness him being the next danny manning urself. u guys have no respect watsoever. He traveled on the play? get a life man seriously if u cant respect what hes going through enough to talk crap when hes down, ur a punk. im speaking in general.
> 
> not to mention, half of u are 6'0'' white males that cant even get even get above the rim to save ur life, and here we have amare off microfracture surgery that is till more athletic than u. quit talking ****.



:boohoo: 


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> :boohoo:
> 
> 
> :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:




:biggrin: but we dont need amare to beat u :biggrin:


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> :biggrin: but we dont need amare to beat u :biggrin:



and what does that have to do with the subject of this thread again?


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## thom_york (Apr 17, 2006)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> how bout everybody shuts up and doesnt say a thing until u witness him being the next danny manning urself. u guys have no respect watsoever. He traveled on the play? get a life man seriously if u cant respect what hes going through enough to talk crap when hes down, ur a punk. im speaking in general.
> 
> not to mention, half of u are 6'0'' white males that cant even get even get above the rim to save ur life, and here we have amare off microfracture surgery that is till more athletic than u. quit talking ****.
> 
> and thats not from a homer, its from a fan of the game.



i am indeed a 6'0" white male, and i cant get within 2 feet of the rim let alone above it.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> how bout everybody shuts up and doesnt say a thing until u witness him being the next danny manning urself. u guys have no respect watsoever. He traveled on the play? get a life man seriously if u cant respect what hes going through enough to talk crap when hes down, ur a punk. im speaking in general.
> 
> not to mention, half of u are 6'0'' white males that cant even get even get above the rim to save ur life, and here we have amare off microfracture surgery that is till more athletic than u. quit talking ****.
> 
> and thats not from a homer, its from a fan of the game.



Calm down man. They're expressing their opinions on the situation.
No need to go crazy over someone elses views.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> how bout everybody shuts up and doesnt say a thing until u witness him being the next danny manning urself. u guys have no respect watsoever. He traveled on the play? get a life man seriously if u cant respect what hes going through enough to talk crap when hes down, ur a punk. im speaking in general.
> 
> not to mention, half of u are 6'0'' white males that cant even get even get above the rim to save ur life, and here we have amare off microfracture surgery that is till more athletic than u. quit talking ****.
> 
> and thats not from a homer, its from a fan of the game.



lol ... you need to calm down. Everyone here is completely free to discuss the matter and produce conjecture on Amare's future. That's what we all do here. That is why these types of places are called "discussion" boards.

And you middle paragraph there reaks of immaturity and is quite a stupid comment to make. I could care less if Amare is still more athletic than me after having a leg removed ... I can still discuss where I think his career is heading.


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## Stefan Nellemoes (Apr 9, 2005)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> how bout everybody shuts up and doesnt say a thing until u witness him being the next danny manning urself. u guys have no respect watsoever. He traveled on the play? get a life man seriously if u cant respect what hes going through enough to talk crap when hes down, ur a punk. im speaking in general.
> 
> not to mention, half of u are 6'0'' white males that cant even get even get above the rim to save ur life, and here we have amare off microfracture surgery that is till more athletic than u. quit talking ****.
> 
> and thats not from a homer, its from a fan of the game.


Heeeeeeey!

I'm 5'10" and I can almost dunk..- and I'm heading for arthroscopic surgery on both knees in december - my third and fourth, at the age of 23..

I know what Amare is going through, but even if I didn't, I still has the rights to call a travel on him.

You acted like a homer - not a fan of the game.

A fan of the game, would protect the game of basketball and ask for those travels to be called.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> this is a good question that isnt brought up much
> 
> didnt he not tell the Suns he needed surgery (arthroscopic at first), until after he signed the contract extension? Must of hurt it in workouts or something in the offseason, but right now the max entension he signed is looking kind of like smug timing that Amare did with the Suns.......
> 
> but he did get paid...


They didn't know he need microfracture surgery until he got scoped. He knew he was having knee pain in one knee, but I doubt he had any idea it would be this bad. And besides, even if he did know...don't act like you wouldn't have signed on that dotted line before letting it be known that you needed the knife. For $90 mil I'm thinking most people would get paid first. :biggrin:


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> They didn't know he need microfracture surgery until he got scoped. He knew he was having knee pain in one knee, but I doubt he had any idea it would be this bad. And besides, even if he did know...don't act like you wouldn't have signed on that dotted line before letting it be known that you needed the knife. For $90 mil I'm thinking most people would get paid first. :biggrin:


I know....I adressed both of these things in my response. The arthoscoptic part in the first line, and the getting paid in the last line

but I also adressed that I do think the timing is something that looks pretty smug and should be discussed more....


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> I know....I adressed both of these things in my response. The arthoscoptic part in the first line, and the getting paid in the last line
> 
> but I also adressed that I do think the timing is something that looks pretty smug and should be discussed more....


Sorry, "but he did get paid..." sounds nothing like "I suppose we all would have done the same thing." 

If anything, it was the Suns' fault because they knew his knee was hurting and that he was going to need the knee scoped. I doubt anyone knew the extent of it.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

This is a bummer to hear.


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

i heard the most recent update is that he's going to be out again for 2-3 months. is this true?


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

clips_r_teh_wieners said:


> i heard the most recent update is that he's going to be out again for 2-3 months. is this true?


I don't think they can put a time on it like that. Coach says he'll play when he shows he can practice consistently, not when he can come in every other game off the bench and test himself. Coach says it's not fair to Amare and not fair to the team to play him. So it could very well be 2-3 months or even through the All-Star break before he sees some time. On Friday he felt no stiffness in his knees, and was ready to play...but D'Antoni said no so it appears.

I give Amare credit though, because even though it didn't work out as planned that is no fault of his. It had to be incredibly difficult to feel confidence and not favor one knee over the other when one is hurting. All his current problems seem to be from favoring one leg. He'll keep working and hopefully it'll get better. The worst case scenario would be that he has arthritis in the knees and needs cortizone shots or whatever that may entail. We can only hope there is no irreparable damage there.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I'm bummed, but we all may end up having to put a fork into the old Amare that was about to dominate the NBA like no other IMO. If Amare never was injured, and continued to improve at the rate he was, and in the system he was in at Phoenix. I think we would all be talking about how Amare is the greatest player in the NBA next to Kobe. LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Dirk would all be on a level under him. However that's all in the rearview mirror now. To bad.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Horrible news to hear this. I'd be shocked if we see the real Amare again. Most knew he would never be the same right after it was announced he had the microfracture surgery, but it's still sucks to hear this nonetheless. There's no upside to this. Well OK, a certain couple Suns posters never showing their faces again would certainly up the IQ of this board. But that's a mean thing to say. No matter how true.


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## Silent Lamb (Dec 18, 2005)

I think that if Amare comes back after the All Star break, he'd be a good 15/7 guy in just under 30 minutes. With so many other great scorers for the Suns, and Steve Nash running the show, I'm still confident in a strong playoff push.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

diaw, thomas, marion, nash, bell...pretty deep...if amare can come off the bench and contribute ala corey maggete from last year, i think you guys should still be a contender...


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

On that note, Amare is set to play in the preseason game against Philly in Cologne. There's no way I'm going to be missing this.


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## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

mms://phxsuns.wmod.llnwd.net/a205/o2/camp06_italytogermany_061008.wmv


Amare had his best practice after the set back. A lot of it is captured here, he looks really good out there if you ask me. Hope its a sign of being able to make it through this. Like everyone else, we gotta wait to see if it really comes through. Come on STAT.


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## dwade3 (Sep 12, 2005)

Supposedly his microfracture knee is alright, its his other knee with all the fluids in it is stuffing up, i mean its understandable, u gotta compensate more weight the usual onto one leg, this may also put stress on his back and hips, look out for those injuries in a couple of years i rekon....


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Zei_Zao_LS said:


> On that note, Amare is set to play in the preseason game against Philly in Cologne. There's no way I'm going to be missing this.


why the hell is he playing in preseason?

im serious, he shouldnt play a minute this preseason. He and the Suns cant rush this like they did last year.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Zei_Zao_LS said:


> On that note, Amare is set to play in the preseason game against Philly in Cologne. There's no way I'm going to be missing this.



is it the angle, or are amare's biceps really bigger than his head?


----------



## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

dwade3 said:


> Supposedly his microfracture knee is alright, its his other knee with all the fluids in it is stuffing up, i mean its understandable, u gotta compensate more weight the usual onto one leg, this may also put stress on his back and hips, look out for those injuries in a couple of years i rekon....


well if he is compensating for that knee, i doubt its "alright."


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Pimped Out said:


> well if he is compensating for that knee, i doubt its "alright."


What he meant by "alright" is that there's no pain in the knee. But he hasn't gotten over the mental hurdle of having a surgically repaired knee and is still favoring it, even unconsciencely at times, so he doesn't feel the kind of pain that he had to work through in rehabilitation.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> why the hell is he playing in preseason?
> 
> im serious, he shouldnt play a minute this preseason. He and the Suns cant rush this like they did last year.



He's been out a year. I don't think they've rushed anything. If they wanted to 'rush' him, they would of had him play during the playoffs. It was Amare who wanted to come back in March but Jerry Colengelo didn't think Stoudemire was ready. After 3 days Jerry was proven right.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Dr.Seuss said:


> He's been out a year. I don't think they've rushed anything. If they wanted to 'rush' him, they would of had him play during the playoffs. It was Amare who wanted to come back in March but Jerry Colengelo didn't think Stoudemire was ready. After 3 days Jerry was proven right.


He came back last season, and then had arthoscopic surgery on the other knee in April. He complained of soreness less than a week ago....... and Amare wanted to come back last year, D'Antoni made the lineups. He didnt have to play if they didnt think he was ready

Now if he is ready, practice and plan to start the season....but preseason is just meaningless....


----------



## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Playing right now (on ESPN2)


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

Damn, Amare not really himself in this game but it's only the 1st quarter. He still looks good running up and down the floor but no strong finnishes and lots of hesitations.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Can't really tell at this point if it is mental or physical


----------



## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

I think it's mental.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

NOBLE said:


> I think it's mental.


that is how I am leaning...

His stride looks like the old Amare, however, he does not seem to be trying to be explosive. I think he will be spending the first 1/3 of the season getting his mind right.


Good luck Amare :cheers:


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> that is how I am leaning...
> 
> His stride looks like the old Amare, however, he does not seem to be trying to be explosive. I think he will be spending the first 1/3 of the season getting his mind right.
> 
> ...


When Vince came back from surgery, he was very timid about dunking and such. I figure Amare is going through the same. He'll be fine


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

It's going to be a long mental journey for Amare to gain back his confidence. From his 2 slams and couple of rebounds so far it seems like his hops are still there. I'm not as worried as I used to be, I think he'll be fine as long as the pain doesn't reoccur throughout the season.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Samael said:


> It's going to be a long mental journey for Amare to gain back his confidence. From his 2 slams and couple of rebounds so far it seems like his hops are still there. I'm not as worried as I used to be, I think he'll be fine as long as the pain doesn't reoccur throughout the season.



Most impressive are the quick spin moves are still there also. 

Phoenix is going to be sick this year. Banks and Barbosa are going to terrorize teams off the bench.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

NOBLE said:


> I think it's mental.



Yup, he tried a little hard. Ending up give the ball to the Sixers.
But his hops seem to be there and his quickness too. I think 
it'll take a month of the regular season before he starts playing the game without
thinking about it. Surprised he didn't show off his improved jumpshot.
That's where he has improved the most, he wasn't settling for the J. He attacked
the rim which was not the case in September.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> how bout everybody shuts up and doesnt say a thing until u witness him being the next danny manning urself. u guys have no respect watsoever. He traveled on the play? get a life man seriously if u cant respect what hes going through enough to talk crap when hes down, ur a punk. im speaking in general.
> 
> not to mention, half of u are 6'0'' white males that cant even get even get above the rim to save ur life, and here we have amare off microfracture surgery that is till more athletic than u. quit talking ****.
> 
> and thats not from a homer, its from a fan of the game.


Well I'm a 6'4" black male that got a college scholarship despite having no handles and only a decent shot. I was just athletic.

So can I say that I think he'll only be a borderline all-star for the rest of his career?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I find it hilarious that all the people saying he would never be able to freakin' walk again are now admitting that it's just a mental block.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Well I'm a 6'4" black male that got a college scholarship despite having no handles and only a decent shot. I was just athletic.
> 
> So can I say that I think he'll only be a borderline all-star for the rest of his career?


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> I find it hilarious that all the people saying he would never be able to freakin' walk again are now admitting that it's just a mental block.


Not me, if you read my posts in this thread you will see that I was one of the few that were still optimistic about Amare. But he still has a lot to prove, one preseason game doesn't tell the story for what will happen for the rest of the season.


----------



## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Well I'm a 6'4" black male that got a college scholarship despite having no handles and only a decent shot. I was just athletic.
> 
> So can I say that I think he'll only be a borderline all-star for the rest of his career?



yes, i would think u can make ur own opinion, but the fact is amare has to much pride and dedication for him to be a borderline all star the rest of his career. hes got his whole career ahead of him. how can u come to that conclusinon so fast?


----------



## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> I find it hilarious that all the people saying he would never be able to freakin' walk again are now admitting that it's just a mental block.


yea. i was thinking the same thing. its all part of his campaign, which is to prove HATERS wrong.


----------



## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

but like mentioned, hes got a long way to go.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

_Dre_ said:


> I find it hilarious that all the people saying he would never be able to freakin' walk again are now admitting that it's just a mental block.


I dont think any of those people has said he will be the same type of player he was before his surgery.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

HB said:


> I dont think any of those people has said he will be the same type of player he was before his surgery.


 What people? The people who were in here earlier crying on each other's shoulders about what could have been or the people who just replied to my last post?


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

Yeah he can still jump well and throw it down nicely, the rust hes experiencing in his game is something anyone would go through after a year and a half of no real games. Either way, i am (ever so slightly) relieved he had a good showing. That dunk he had when Barbosa charged the guy was pretty beefy, too bad it was an offensive foul on LB.

I await more of this to put my fears to rest.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

_Dre_ said:


> What people? The people who were in here earlier crying on each other's shoulders about what could have been or the people who just replied to my last post?


I think you love to argue, and sometimes just for arguements' sake. No offense meant by the way.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

THE MATRIX 31 said:


> yes, i would think u can make ur own opinion, but the fact is amare has to much pride and dedication for him to be a borderline all star the rest of his career. hes got his whole career ahead of him. how can u come to that conclusinon so fast?


There's more to being an all-star than pride and dedication. Don't talk about conclusions when your argument for Amare is no more legit than the argument against him. Right now, his knees' future is all speculation. Flip a coin, heads he gets back to being the beast, tails he doesn't. 

The Koln game was a sad one for me to watch, because I know Amare can do a lot better than he did. His didn't show the amazing athleticism and power that we all knew. Hopefully that isn't permamant. His dunks were no more impressive that Diaw's.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Apparently he played in tonight's preseason game, how did he look?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Apparently he played in tonight's preseason game, how did he look?


 It's somewhere in this thread.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Whoops, page 6 I skipped apparently.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

:laugh: This is my page 6...


----------



## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

let the kid get his feet wet a little bit, lets say the 1st two months of the reg. season, then we will start saying hes the next victim of microfracture.

no arguments fellas, lets just let the kid get his groove back. hes wet behind the ears right now basically.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

_Dre_ said:


> :laugh: This is my page 6...


I'm on page 3!


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

I am watching the game right now, and he looks pretty good running up and down the court. He had one monster miss, but he got pretty high. He did have an open jumper he passed on, since we have been hearing about him walking on his J. But so far, phoenix fans can breathe easy


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

HB said:


> I am watching the game right now, and he looks pretty good running up and down the court. He had one monster miss, but he got pretty high. He did have an open jumper he passed on, since we have been hearing about him walking on his J. But so far, phoenix fans can breathe easy



You see his first posterized? That european guy got hit hard. 
Diaw also had some crazy flushes.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

and to think there's only 8 people in my club. shame shame on you non-believers.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Clubs are nerdy...


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

He's getting there...

<EMBED src="" width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash target="_blank" href="http://www.youtube.com" <a v C-YBoCwXrHg wmode="transparent">

In case the above does not work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-YBoCwXrHg

EDIT: found this too from the same person: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXkMSBOWiw8</EMBED>


----------



## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Get a jumper (although he could shoot some).


----------



## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

jokeaward said:


> Get a jumper (although he could shoot some).


At this point he seems to be purposely passing on the jumper (which he developed into a consistent shot and, apparently, improved in the off time) in order to take it to the cup, get his body into the game, and prove that he hasn't lost the explosiveness.

All things considered, he's looking pretty good out there.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Clubs are nerdy...


so is posting on an internet message board, but that doesn't stop you now does it? clubs are cool man.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

If he gets a jumpshot...things are gonna get scary.


----------



## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> If he gets a jumpshot...things are gonna get scary.


People have been saying for the last two years that he has a jumpshot. His jumpshot is consistent out to 18-19 feet. Read my previous post for details.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Zei_Zao_LS said:


> People have been saying for the last two years that he has a jumpshot. His jumpshot is consistent out to 18-19 feet. Read my previous post for details.


 Yeah, that's what I based my statement off.

If he truly has a semblance of a jumpshot, here's the remaining things on the greatness checklist:

Interior D
True maneuvers in the post
Being able to pass out of double teams
Becoming an effective passer/offense facilitator overrall
Using more of his athleticism for rebounding

All achievable.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

im not writing him off just yet. i will give him 2 more years to return to the old amare barring any injury setback. i saw the phx game earlier tonight. he was very hesitant and his timing was way off on a lot things. he needs a lot more practice and playing time to get back into things. i think he can become his old self again with the better fundamentals with boxing out and defense. 

i think he is just being patient and letting the explosiveness return to him instead of trying to force it like he did when he returned last season.


----------



## HawaiianLaker (Nov 28, 2005)

amare is a beast mayn i hope he returns to his old form he was one of my favorite players dunkin on everything in his sight, best luck to him


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Amare's first poster on the road to recovery......


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Dr.Seuss said:


> Amare's first poster on the road to recovery......


 Can't see it.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

_Dre_ said:


> Can't see it.



me neither...


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

bootstrenf said:


> me neither...












It's worth pasting into your browser to view..that picture definitely puts this thread to shame.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

I can see it.......here I post it again.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

saw it, good pic...


----------



## THE MATRIX 31 (Jul 22, 2005)

Dr.Seuss said:


> I can see it.......here I post it again.


S.T.A.T.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

why does a man like amare have socks like a ballerina?


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

DuMa said:


> why does a man like amare have socks like a ballerina?



it's the new style...jason terry, van horn, livingston...


----------



## PriceIsWright (Oct 11, 2006)

for the contract he signed, I hope Amare recovers. I wouldn't be surprised if the suns seek reimbersement if he doesnt


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

They have no grounds to do that. I could see if it was a pickup game or something, but it was during practice.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

PriceIsWright said:


> for the contract he signed, I hope Amare recovers. I wouldn't be surprised if the suns seek reimbersement if he doesnt


Exactly what sort of reimbursement do you believe they are entitled to?


----------



## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

can nba teams insure player?

i know mlb teams can.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

Pimped Out said:


> can nba teams insure player?
> 
> i know mlb teams can.


That's up to the insurance company. For instance, the Nets couldn't get ZerO's contract insured because of his high risk pre-existing condition. Don't know if Amare's impending surgery (at the time of his signing) kept the Suns from getting insurance. Those insurance policies usually pay out if a player misses 80% or more of the games in a season, if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Amare had an awesome block on Lamar Odom tonight. he got up really high and fast. very good sign


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

he had an awesome putback for a dunk. very good hangtime. its looking very good now for amare imho


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

He looks healthy and athletic, just rusty from not playing, he had a bunch of nice dunks, blocks, rebounds, steals, passes tonight and hitting his Js.


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

Stat Line: 15pts, 9reb, 5stl, 2blk, 1ast, 3 turnovers, in 30 minutes


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Sounds like he is doing a lot better. Now I'm even more excited for opening night.


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwk0Mr-tgmM&eurl= he can still get up there pretty nicely.


----------



## Kyakko (Aug 14, 2002)

rdm2 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwk0Mr-tgmM&eurl= he can still get up there pretty nicely.


nice... but i'm still have my reservations. try doing that 8 times in a running game.


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

Kyakko said:


> nice... but i'm still have my reservations. try doing that 8 times in a running game.


That'll be a question of timing and conditioning at that point, which is a couple of the things Amare acknowledges he needs to work on.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uwk0Mr-tgmM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uwk0Mr-tgmM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Amare also had 15/9 and 5 steals and two awesome blocks in 30 mins of play. He also looked stronger as the game went on.
</EMBED>


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

he jumps off his left leg, so which one did he get the surgery on? 

i wont be convinced yet either, since how high he jumps doesn't have enough to do with how durable his leg(s) are.


----------



## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

hes gonna have a k-mart season this year. k-mart had the exact same problems. hed be healthy 1 day but then hed miss the next couple days cuz he was sore or his knees were swolen. and he never got any practice time which led to his not playing which led to his suspension :/

not saying amare is gonna be suspended lol, but i got a feeling its gonna be the exact same as it was for k...


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

afobisme said:


> he jumps off his left leg, so which one did he get the surgery on?
> 
> i wont be convinced yet either, since how high he jumps doesn't have enough to do with how durable his leg(s) are.


His left one is the surgery one I believe.

I agree however before ppl talked like it was all over but this is very encouraging. His stats are improving from game to game too.


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

afobisme said:


> he jumps off his left leg, so which one did he get the surgery on?


The left one is the one that had microfracture surgery. The right one is the one that he was overcompensating on, which is what held him back.

And no, his injury was not even close to what K-Mart had.


----------



## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

pac4eva5 said:


> hes gonna have a k-mart season this year. k-mart had the exact same problems. hed be healthy 1 day but then hed miss the next couple days cuz he was sore or his knees were swolen. and he never got any practice time which led to his not playing which led to his suspension :/
> 
> not saying amare is gonna be suspended lol, but i got a feeling its gonna be the exact same as it was for k...


I've been stating the same thing for a while now.

An inury like Amares, its one of those games where he will be fine for like 2-3 weeks, then he'd miss a couple of games here and there due to soreness and swell. Which is common.

K-Mart, Randolph etc.. all had the same thing happened.. It wont be until next season when Amare can be back to 100% Amare.. in terms of playing consistently at the high level every game..

but you know, Amare only needs to play hard and consistent come post season..... the Suns will be fine during the regular season even if he miss a lot of games.


Also, I expect K-Mart to actually play close to his old self again.. and consistently too.


----------



## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

1 Penny said:


> I've been stating the same thing for a while now.
> 
> An inury like Amares, its one of those games where he will be fine for like 2-3 weeks, then he'd miss a couple of games here and there due to soreness and swell. Which is common.
> 
> ...


ya thats what im hoping too. i dont expect amare to "suck" or suggest his career is over. but i do see him missing quite a bit of time still just because he needs more time with that knee. all it takes is one little knee-to-knee (or in k-marts case, a little bump) and then there will be a big setback again. thats just how that injury works :/


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> I think we're looking at Mcdysses pt. Deux here.


<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9HqUL87MTD4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9HqUL87MTD4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

He can't hear you...........


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

maybe amare should rest until postseason...it would be unfortunate if he came back too soon and got reinjured...with the sun's depth, that's what i'd do...


----------



## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

I guess were going to have to see come all star break what exactly Amare is doing. Right now its just too early to tell. For all we know 25 games into the season he could be out for the rest of the season(worst case senario)


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> And now we'll never see that player again.



<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q8Q2gdkCBdM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q8Q2gdkCBdM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


Hmmm..........pretty close if you ask me.


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

so many people in this thread have been pwned.

hate to say i told you so, but...


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

I'm begginig to wander if Amaré's health is THAT important to the NBA...


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

This is precisely why I didn't profess to know about Stoudemire's condition and make wild assumptions based on things I really didn't have much knowledge of.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Dr.Seuss said:


> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q8Q2gdkCBdM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q8Q2gdkCBdM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> 
> Hmmm..........pretty close if you ask me.


Yep good to see. This thread was started not in hate, but in disapointment at possibly never getting what we had with Amare back. So I hope you're not pissed off for me or others being sad at the prospect that your favorite player may not have been able to come back as the player he once was.

That said. DON'T JINX IT!


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> I'm begginig to wander if Amaré's health is THAT important to the NBA...


It is..


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> It is..


You would.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Amareca said:


> It is..


Meh.

The suns don't have no problems scoring. With or without Amaré. And Amaré is no defensive player.

so, .... meh.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> Meh.
> 
> The suns don't have no problems scoring. With or without Amaré. And Amaré is no defensive player.
> 
> so, .... meh.


he means a lot of things to the suns in the playoffs. he gives the suns interior presence, while he is no DPOY. he can alter a lot of shots inside and be a menance offensively for the suns which gives them a deadly 1-2 punch in the playoffs with their outside shot.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

DuMa said:


> he means a lot of things to the suns in the playoffs. he gives the suns interior presence, while he is no DPOY. he can alter a lot of shots inside and be a menance offensively for the suns which gives them a deadly 1-2 punch in the playoffs with their outside shot.


I'll disregard the fact that you are talking about a player who got wild numbers in the playoffs while his team was being swept... or something like that...

Amaré is not the Suns' missing-link to the championship.

So, i don't pay THAT much attention to him. I'm keeping my eyes on the Suns' defensive players...


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

PauloCatarino said:


> I'll disregard the fact that you are talking about a player who got wild numbers in the playoffs while his team was being swept... or something like that...
> 
> Amaré is not the Suns' missing-link to the championship.
> 
> So, i don't pay THAT much attention to him. I'm keeping my eyes on the Suns' defensive players...


you're delusional and/or a hater if you think amare isn't the missing link and a bad defensive player. while not great, he's average and certainly not bad.

and for the record, the suns lost 4-1, with joe johnson missing their first two games.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Yep good to see. This thread was started not in hate, but in disapointment at possibly never getting what we had with Amare back. So I hope you're not pissed off for me or others being sad at the prospect that your favorite player may not have been able to come back as the player he once was.
> 
> That said. *DON'T JINX IT*!


Yeah, I'm pretty sure there still lies a few bumps
in the road. So it wouldn't surprise me if Amare had to 
miss a few games or something of that nature. 

But I just bumped the thread so people could realize 
that early assumptions can make you look bad. 

People are already calling it quits on McGrady. But then
again, he's not that young like Amare.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

T-Mac has lost the will to play. He has battled depression along with these injuries which add to his depression because he's not healthy. It's unfortunate that whatever SG the Magic touch, the Magic destroy!


----------



## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> I'll disregard the fact that you are talking about a player who got wild numbers in the playoffs while his team was being swept... or something like that...
> 
> Amaré is not the Suns' missing-link to the championship.
> 
> So, i don't pay THAT much attention to him. I'm keeping my eyes on the Suns' defensive players...


Right. Check this from a local article:



> *No 3’s? No problem*
> 
> One of the most impressive aspects of this winning streak is the Suns have kept it going while their 3-point shooting has gone south. Phoenix missed 12 of 16 3-pointers Monday – no one made more than one – and went 9-for-34 in the last two games, but won both comfortably by taking the ball inside for high percentage dunks, layups and bank shots.
> 
> Wayward 3s and all, Phoenix still shot 51.4 percent for the game and had 52 points in the paint and 27 fast-break points against the Magic.


So yeah. Last season, when the Suns' 3's weren't falling, they lose. This season, when they don't fall, they blowout teams.

I'm _sure_ Amare has nothing to do with that...


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Great for Amare. I never thought he'd be back at this point, but even if he never fully recovered, I thought he'd be a good player because his skills and talent is pretty underrated. Even as an average athlete, he is a 10-15 point scorer in this league. If he gets back to the explosive athlete he was before, skies the limit.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

OH man that dunk was sick! I watched it like 5 times in a row, haah, its awesome to see amare coming back with a passion and not complaining or anything. Gotta love him


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> Meh.
> 
> The suns don't have no problems scoring. With or without Amaré. And Amaré is no defensive player.
> 
> so, .... meh.


Wodner how many games you ever saw Amare play in Portugal being a Lakers fan, 3 ?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

This is just begging to get bumped if Amare goes down, so why do it 20 games into the season? 

But yeah, he's got at least 80% of his athleticism back, maybe more. Is purposefully not moving his feet on defense though, and fouling like crazy. So maybe the trust in the knee still isn't there.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

because he won't son. his knee is good! if he goes down, it won't be related to micro surgery.


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> I'll disregard the fact that you are talking about a player who got wild numbers in the playoffs while his team was being swept... or something like that...
> 
> Amaré is not the Suns' missing-link to the championship.
> 
> So, i don't pay THAT much attention to him. I'm keeping my eyes on the Suns' defensive players...


Suns almost beat Dallas to get to the finals last year without Amare. Amare is one of the most dominant big men in the game. Suns now have Amare back...

Hmmm..


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

KidCanada said:


> Suns almost beat Dallas to get to the finals last year without Amare. Amare is one of the most dominant big men in the game. Suns now have Amare back...
> 
> Hmmm..


Still, though. Doesn't mean they will beat them just because they almost did without him. Still have to play the games. People shouldn't get caught up into that "what they did without him, they should do better thing."


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

EHL said:


> This is just begging to get bumped if Amare goes down, so why do it 20 games into the season?
> 
> But yeah, he's got at least 80% of his athleticism back, maybe more. Is purposefully not moving his feet on defense though, and fouling like crazy. So maybe the trust in the knee still isn't there.


Gotta take the risk man, we have faith in our boy amare ;-) I will admit, watching highlights from 04-05 amare is not even close to what he was back then. Amare just straight bulldozed people then and now when i seem to watch, he seems maybe just a little bit timid. I'm sure he'll continue to improve though.


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## Lukasbmw (Jul 30, 2004)

Amare seems to keep getting higher and higher when he jumps for rebounds. It really is a great sign.

Amare does need to start moving his feet more on D, but he is improving...very quickly.

Has Amare been able to face up a defender from 12-15 feet, put the ball on the floor, go to the hoop, and dunk with 3 guys hanging off him? Not yet, but if he can do this by the end of the year, the 04-05 Amare is back and the rest of the NBA is in a world of hurt.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

EHL said:


> This is just begging to get bumped if Amare goes down, so why do it 20 games into the season?
> 
> But yeah, he's got at least 80% of his athleticism back, maybe more. Is purposefully not moving his feet on defense though, and fouling like crazy. So maybe the trust in the knee still isn't there.


30 games in and he's looking good. I'd put him at 90%.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rvvtrapATfI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rvvtrapATfI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Tonight against Pau Gasol and the Grizzlies, 42pts 9rebs 2asst on 15-21.
He had atleast 3 posters. Alot of acrobatic finishes as well.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BTfzpBPBH9I"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BTfzpBPBH9I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Just keeping everyone updated.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

He had 18 at the half and I think 37 5 minutes in the 2nd half, could have been way way more than just 42, too bad..

That fastbreak dunk looked like 2005 Amare, elevation and everything.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

*All-Star*, *29pts, 9rebs, 3asst*​
*Season breakdown:*

*30+ games:* 6
*40+ games:* 3
*DDs:* 30 (he had 24 for the entire 04-05 season)

Sorry if you guys feel I'm bumping this thread alot. I just don't want to start
entire new thread everytime Amare does good. It's also to rub it in....:clap2:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I told you guys. Most of you look kind of silly now.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Something tells me Amare isnt too impressed by all the Dwight talk


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Hey I'm glad I look silly. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that for many of us, the idea of losing Amare because of this knee injury was really sad, and honestly at times things looked pretty dim. But it looks like he's back and better than ever.

Which is great for the NBA, and fans like me and others.

I don't think many were revelling in him being injured. Which seems to be the implication by the phoenix fans. There wasn't anything malicious in our doubt, just doubt. You have to hand it to Amare. Nobody really believed he could come back and be the player he was, but he has. And he's got his J down even better than before.

The future is certainly bright for the NBA.

Though I have to admit, watching Amare guard Dwight was something of an eye opener. Dwight is a freaking beast. If he adds any nuance to his game, he's the next Shaq.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Hey I'm glad I look silly. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that for many of us, the idea of losing Amare because of this knee injury was really sad, and honestly at times things looked pretty dim. But it looks like he's back and better than ever.
> 
> Which is great for the NBA, and fans like me and others.
> 
> ...


I don't think Amare was guarding Dwight. He definitely wasn't trying.

You saying Dwight is the next Shaq?


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Amare is a beast, and the fact that he can knock down 15-20 footers is even more of a bad news to other bigs guys guarding him.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

He does look like he lost some explosiveness, but glad to see he has worked on other aspects of his game


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Hey I'm glad I look silly. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that for many of us, the idea of losing Amare because of this knee injury was really sad, and honestly at times things looked pretty dim. But it looks like he's back and better than ever.
> 
> Which is great for the NBA, and fans like me and others.
> 
> ...


Agreed on all accounts. Amare is awesome and probably as good as ever. He has a big reputation to return to because the last performances he had pre-surgery were against Tim Duncan throwing up 38 a night for the whole series, but I think he is as good now as he was then. 

Also, people underrated his skills. He can shoot, and his ability to adjust and finish at the hoop is pretty great for a big guy. He just has a knack for scoring. That's his thing.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

HB said:


> He does look like he lost some explosiveness, but glad to see he has worked on other aspects of his game


That knee surgery for Amare might be a blessing in disguise for him. Now he has to work on other aspects of his game to make him a better all around scorer.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Also, people underrated his skills. He can shoot, and his ability to adjust and finish at the hoop is pretty great for a big guy. He just has a knack for scoring. That's his thing.


All true. You can tell he worked on that jumpshot when he was injured. 

I don't mean to demean Amare in this thread though...but skillset wise what's the difference between him and Zach? So many people hate on Zach for being a black hole, but Amare isn't all that different to me. This isn't an indictment of Amare, it's more of me wondering why people hate on Zach so much. 

I wish Amare and Dwight were in the same conference though, because I think tonight started a nice little rivalry.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Just another thread proving to us that futuristxen thinks he knows more than he actually does...


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Phenom Z28 said:


> Just another thread proving to us that futuristxen thinks *he* knows more than he actually does...




*cough* She.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

amare surprised me with his touch around the basket. he can still hang in the air and perform circus shots and have them go in.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> I don't mean to demean Amare in this thread though...but skillset wise what's the difference between him and Zach? So many people hate on Zach for being a black hole, but Amare isn't all that different to me. This isn't an indictment of Amare, it's more of me wondering why people hate on Zach so much.


You can't teach height, and Amare has that on Zach. Amare also has a much better in the air game than Zach. Randolph is more of a grounded player. 

Amare has also done it on a much bigger stage. Randolph had that great breakout playoff performance back in the day, but Portland has fell off the map since.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> You can't teach height, and Amare has that on Zach. Amare also has a much better in the air game than Zach. Randolph is more of a grounded player.
> *
> Amare has also done it on a much bigger stage. Randolph had that great breakout playoff performance back in the day, but Portland has fell off the map since*.


Forget this arguement, the two teams are not comparable at all.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

HB said:


> Forget this arguement, the two teams are not comparable at all.


I'm just saying the exposure is not there for Zach. I don't think he is at Amare's level, but the gap is made even larger by the fact that Amare gets way more exposure being on the Suns, and with Zach being on the Blazers.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> You can't teach height, and Amare has that on Zach. Amare also has a much better in the air game than Zach. Randolph is more of a grounded player.
> 
> Amare has also done it on a much bigger stage. Randolph had that great breakout playoff performance back in the day, but Portland has fell off the map since.


That's not what I'm saying, Amare is better...but why do people get on Randolph for being selfish and stopping the flow of the offense when realistically Amare does the same thing sometimes. I think it's not as noticeable because of the pace he plays, but in the same situation, would Amare really be all that much better for the Blazers in _that_ regard?


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> That's not what I'm saying, Amare is better...but why do people get on Randolph for being selfish and stopping the flow of the offense when realistically Amare does the same thing sometimes. I think it's not as noticeable because of the pace he plays, but in the same situation, would Amare really be all that much better for the Blazers in _that_ regard?




Just going to chime in, but Amare never if rarely stops the flow of the offense.

He always gets his points in the flow of the offense.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> That's not what I'm saying, Amare is better...but why do people get on Randolph for being selfish and stopping the flow of the offense when realistically Amare does the same thing sometimes. I think it's not as noticeable because of the pace he plays, but in the same situation, would Amare really be all that much better for the Blazers in _that_ regard?


I don't know. We've never seen Zach do it on a successful team, and we have seen Amare do it on a 60 win team. So that's the difference. It's one of those things where winning cures all ills. If a guy is shooting 35 shots per game on the worst team in the league, he is a ballhog chucker. If he does it on the best team in the league, he is the MVP and best player. Perception is like that, and people want to know that a style of play is condusive to winning ball games. Stats aren't convincing enough.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Dr. Seuss said:


> *cough* She.


Whoa...the irony of my post...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Dr. Seuss said:


> Just going to chime in, but Amare never if rarely stops the flow of the offense.
> 
> He always gets his points in the flow of the offense.


That's because Nash pretty much feeds him when it's time to score, he doesn't have to force it. My point is he always gets his points, but in the end that's about it. I never see Amare pass all that much. I just think they're of the same black hole mold right now, but Amare gets way more credit than Randolph.

In the end, I just don't think that's particularly fair to Zach.


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

_Dre_ said:


> I don't mean to demean Amare in this thread though...but skillset wise what's the difference between him and Zach? So many people hate on Zach for being a black hole, but Amare isn't all that different to me. This isn't an indictment of Amare, it's more of me wondering why people hate on Zach so much.


I'm not disagreeing that Zach Randolph recieves some undeserved criticism, but there are differences between his game and Amare's. First of all, STAT is way more explosive, athletic, and taller. He's just flat out more offensively efficient than Zach. Secondly, Amare uses those attributes to develop more of an inside presence, whereas Zach still relies on his jumper more.

*Amare* 

FG%: .594
Percentage of shots from the inside: 60%
Percentage of shots from the outside: 40%


*Zach *

FG%: .463
Percentage of shots from the inside: 39%
Percentage of shots from the outside: 61%



Bottomline is Amare scores the ball at a far more efficient pace.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

KidCanada said:


> I'm not disagreeing that Zach Randolph recieves some undeserved criticism, but there are differences between his game and Amare's. First of all, STAT is way more explosive, athletic, and taller. He's just flat out more offensively efficient than Zach. Secondly, Amare uses those attributes to develop more of an inside presence, whereas Zach still relies on his jumper more.
> 
> *Amare*
> 
> ...


Ding! Ding! Ding!

That, and Amare isn't the main option on his team. Even if you consider him the number one option on the Suns, they still have Marion, Barbosa, and Nash to go to. Zach has Roy at this point, and that's about it.

And to clarify, I'm not trying to justify Zach having a lower shooting percentage that Amare.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

That's a part of system. Of course Amare is going to be more efficient because he plays in a more efficient offense, but would it really be that much difference if he played in Portland and got Iso after Iso with very little to take the pressure off of him?


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

_Dre_ said:


> That's a part of system. Of course Amare is going to be more efficient because he plays in a more efficient offense, but would it really be that much difference if he played in Portland and got Iso after Iso with very little to take the pressure off of him?


Look. You said Amare and Randolph have the same skillset. This is completely untrue for the reasons I listed, and the bottomline(IMO) is Amare is a better player than Randolph. You can argue hypotheticals all night and speculate how Amare would do in Portland and vica versa, but as of now, Amare is simply on another tier in offensive efficiency.

BTW..No knock on Zach, who is a player I think is actually underrated.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Ok. You can believe what you want. 

I said skillset though, and athleticism, the main difference between these two, is not in a player's skillset, and it has nothing to do with my question. I tried to sugarcoat it, but I can see some people don't comprehend unless you go overboard. Bottomline is they're both selfish black holes, but the media likes one over the other because one's on a winning team. Efficiency and all that has nothing to do with being selfish.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

_Dre_ said:


> Ok. You can believe what you want.
> 
> I said skillset though, and athleticism, the main difference between these two, is not in a player's skillset, and it has nothing to do with my question. I tried to sugarcoat it, but I can see some people don't comprehend unless you go overboard. Bottomline is they're both selfish black holes, but the media likes one over the other because one's on a winning team. Efficiency and all that has nothing to do with being selfish.



Amare definitely has a black hole mentality, but it's difficult to determine with any certainty how much of that is due to the way he is utilized in Phoenix's offense. As much as his assist numbers completely belie it, anyone who has watched Amare over the years will tell you he has surpringly good vision and makes highlight reel type passes fairly often.

Defensively however, these two players are not in the same stratosphere anymore. I think it's 82games that has the highest % of shots deterred stat, Amare was right behind Mutombo and Yao. He's not Tim Duncan obviously, but he has become a very underrated defensive player.


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

_Dre_ said:


> Ok. You can believe what you want.
> 
> I said skillset though, and athleticism, the main difference between these two, is not in a player's skillset, and it has nothing to do with my question. I tried to sugarcoat it, but I can see some people don't comprehend unless you go overboard. Bottomline is they're both selfish black holes, but the media likes one over the other because one's on a winning team. Efficiency and all that has nothing to do with being selfish.



If a player scores at a far less efficient rate while shooting more shots oper game like Zach does (compared to Amare), then he is more selfish. When you score the ball at a 60% clip like Amare does, while also drawing more fouls, then it's more benefitial to his team to continue the way he's playing. So yes, efficiency has a lot to do with defining what is selfish.

Also, what do you define as a skillset? Amare's power, athleticism, quickness, are all attributes which help him institute a superior inside game compared to Zach's.

This doesn't even factor in Amare's superior defensive ability.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

KidCanada said:


> If a player scores at a far less efficient rate while shooting more like Zach does compared to Amare, then he is clearly more selfish. When you score the ball at a 60% clip like Amare does, while also drawing more fouls, then it's more benefitial to his team to continue the way he's playing. So yes, efficiency has a lot to do with defining what is selfish.


Not necessarily, it just means he's better at being selfish. The results don't matter if the action is the same. *Not* to say Amare isn't an elite scorer, or he doesn't perform better for his team, or he isn't overrall better, but a black hole is a black hole regardless of the results IMO. I'd prefer to see him become more independent of Nash if he wants to be considered a guy who could be a franchise player. 



> Also, what do you define as a skillset? Amare's power, athleticism, quickness, are all attributes which help him institute a superior inside game compared to Zach's.


Those are physical gifts, not skills.


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## 604flat_line (May 26, 2006)

_Dre_ said:


> Not necessarily, it just means he's better at being selfish. The results don't matter if the action is the same. *Not* to say Amare isn't an elite scorer, or he doesn't perform better for his team, or he isn't overrall better, but a black hole is a black hole regardless of the results IMO. I'd prefer to see him become more independent of Nash if he wants to be considered a guy who could be a franchise player.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are physical gifts, not skills.


How can Amare remedy that then? By passing up open looks? By not using his attributes against his defenders? By not earning his paycheques? I don't get it... if you have the ability and your role is to score the ball when you get it(because usually you're in position cuz of Nash or how the floor is spread) what should he do? Amare isn't supposed to be a playmaker. He is supposed to score, and thats what he does, unless theres a double team which he passes out of pretty decently.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I think you just wanted to misunderstand me on purpose. I never said Amare was anything less than spectacular, but by your reasoning, every good score should just score and score and score and never even look around for teammates. I'm pretty Sure Amare isn't _always_ just amazingly wide open and in position for a dunk. I've seen him force stuff. But like I said and you apparently blindly quoted:

Not to say Amare isn't an elite scorer, or he doesn't perform better for his team, or he isn't overrall better, but a black hole is a black hole regardless of the results IMO.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

Who cares about Randolph and Amare, we got DWIGHT!


:yay: :yay: :yay: :yay:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

KidCanada said:


> If a player scores at a far less efficient rate while shooting more shots oper game like Zach does (compared to Amare), then he is more selfish. When you score the ball at a 60% clip like Amare does, while also drawing more fouls, then it's more benefitial to his team to continue the way he's playing. So yes, efficiency has a lot to do with defining what is selfish.
> *
> Also, what do you define as a skillset? Amare's power, athleticism, quickness, are all attributes which help him institute a superior inside game compared to Zach's.*
> 
> This doesn't even factor in Amare's superior defensive ability.


Are you kidding me? Yes Amare is a superior athlete to Zach, but would you ever say Amare has a more complete inside game than Brand. Zbo is the best low post scorer in the NBA


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Tim Duncan has the most low post capabilities still.


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## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

I think a lot of Amare's lack of assists has to do with D'Antoni's offensive philosophy. If you have an open shot you have to shoot it period... and frankly any time Amare has the ball down low... doesn't matter who is guarding him.. it's an open shot. The main difference I see is that Randolph will a lot of times get the ball about 15 feet from the basket and try to score no matter what... even if a defender is right in his face. Now he has a great jump shot but a fade away jump shot with a hand in your face isn't very high percentage.... something Amare would never do. Most of Amare's jumpers are when he's wide open... which is because most players will play off him due to his amazing explosiveness. 

Bottom line is you can't call someone who has led the league (and is probably high on this list... if not the leader this year) in points per shot selfish. Why? Because when it comes down to it that's the guy you want to take the shot most of the time.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

tempe85 said:


> I think a lot of Amare's lack of assists has to do with D'Antoni's offensive philosophy. If you have an open shot you have to shoot it period... and frankly any time Amare has the ball down low... doesn't matter who is guarding him.. it's an open shot. The main difference I see is that Randolph will a lot of times get the ball about 15 feet from the basket and try to score no matter what... even if a defender is right in his face. Now he has a great jump shot but a fade away jump shot with a hand in your face isn't very high percentage.... something Amare would never do. Most of Amare's jumpers are when he's wide open... which is because most players will play off him due to his amazing explosiveness.
> 
> Bottom line is you can't call someone who has led the league (and is probably high on this list... if not the leader this year) in points per shot selfish. Why? Because when it comes down to it that's the guy you want to take the shot most of the time.


But he definitely takes it most of the time. I'm sure the Wolves want KG to take the shot all of the time but he doesn't.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Randolph has the bad rap for well, being on the BLAZERS! They are a public relations nightmare! Criminal dealings, rapes, drugs, and overall bad attitudes! Name me one other season in which Randolph has played ANYWHERE near this level that he is playing this season? And still, after microsurgery, Amare is playing at a higher level than Randolph. Just look at the efficiency of them, irrespective of teams, Amare is better because he can jump, cut and dunk. Randolph is nowhere near the level of explosiveness that Amare possesses. PERIOD. There is no debating that, it's a moot point, Randolph can jump 22 inches whereas Amare can jump 34 (used to jump around 40).


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> But he definitely takes it most of the time. I'm sure the Wolves want KG to take the shot all of the time but he doesn't.


I've actually thought about that, and I think if KG was a ballhog they'd be a 50+ win team. It's impossible to stop him when he's doing his turn-around jumper, and he's good enough at ball handling that you can't really force it out of his hands...

But that's off topic. Yes, Amare plays selfishly out there, and when he gets the ball, generally, he's going to go to the glass or he's going to shoot it. However, that's what D'Antoni wants and that's what everyone in Phoenix wants. Hell, personally, I wish he'd get the ball more. A lot of the time Nash just spreads the ball around when Amare is like 6/6 out there in the first 5-6 minutes and I can't help but think... "Give him the damn ball!" Even when he misses the shot he generally draws a foul, or generates enough contact that the refs at least have to think about blowing the whistle. When Amare is being passive, he's playing poorly. It's as simple as that.

On that note, Zach Randolph is a horrific, senselessly bad defender. It's ridiculous how bad of a defender he is when his capabilities are clearly higher.


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