# Is Allen Iverson underrated?



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

i don't quite understand this. a lot of people have been down on AI ever since late last season, putting people like michael redd ahead of him in their rankings, yet those same people think he will have a huge impact in the olympic games.

no, he's not as good as he used to be, but he's still very very good. he's one of the most dominant scorers in league history and an excellent passer. yes, he's banged up and a little old now, but the man can still ball. the extreme backlash against AI has been a bit puzzling, to say the least. he may very well be the most underrated player on bbb.net.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I hate his attitude more than his game. While I dont like the "street" image his game sometimes brings to the NBA, you cant deny his ability on the court. However when it comes to his attitude there are few people that I look down upon more.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I liked the way he played in the Olympic qualifiers more than I've liked the way he's played in the NBA recently. Maybe moving to point guard next season will allow him to continue that style of play.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I seriously do think he is underrated, A.I. is a top 10 player in the league, on the court no one plays with more heart. Unfortunately his image of not conforming to the clean cut image seriously undermines what he brings to the table and the fact that he missed a whole load of games last season also doesnt help


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>HeinzGuderian</b>!
> I hate his attitude more than his game. While I dont like the "street" image his game sometimes brings to the NBA, you cant deny his ability on the court. However when it comes to his attitude there are few people that I look down upon more.


his street image? what? because he has tattoos? because he wears cornrows? because he "talks ghetto"? so ridiculous. what "street image" does he bring to the court, pray tell?

or how about the fact that he's one of the very few NBA superstars who actually WANTED to represent his country in the olympics?

that shows me a lot more than tattoos and cornrows.


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## Flanders (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> I liked the way he played in the Olympic qualifiers more than I've liked the way he's played in the NBA recently. Maybe moving to point guard next season will allow him to continue that style of play.


I agree. 

I also think Iverson is an excellent playmaker, and I believe running the point next season will make Iverson a better player next season as well as making the 76ers better.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> 
> 
> or how about the fact that he's one of the very few NBA superstars who actually WANTED to represent his country in the olympics?


Him and Tim Duncan. Interesting company.

Iverson isn't underrated by me, I can tell you that. 

I can't wait to see what he does with the team next year now that they've shed that scrub Chris Ford and AI is moving to point.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

He's definitely not overrated.

AI is probably the toughest player in the league. Not many can carry a team like he has done. I don't know if anyone is better at taking his man off the dribble. He is also an elite defender.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> He's definitely not overrated.
> 
> AI is probably the toughest player in the league. Not many can carry a team like he has done. I don't know if anyone is better at taking his man off the dribble. He is also an elite defender.


A lot of people consider him overrated.

He is not an elite defender, he is maybe elite at playing the passing lanes, (how he gets most of his steals) but he is not a great defender. 

Turns the ball over a lot, shoots under 40%.

And his quicks are starting to go. 

Im not saying he is bad, just saying he has some holes in his game.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> 
> And his quicks are starting to go.


This is one of the more overrated critiques that have caught hold.
He was injured last season, but he hadn't lost his quickness. He's still more than quick enough to do what he needs to. I don't agree that he's lost a step.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

I read a book on him for a Book report called "Only the Strong Survive" Best book I ever read, I couldn't put it down. I have to say that guy has went through hell. I like everything about Iverson's game, he is by far a top 10 player. He just isn't getting respect in Philly.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Freak</b>!
> I read a book on him for a Book report called "Only the Strong Survive" Best book I ever read, I couldn't put it down.


But have you seen the movie?


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> But have you seen the movie?


mark dacascos is god.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I think any claims of a fall-off are overdone. He is still essentially what he's always been. However, I think he's been overrated since Day 1. I used to be one of those who overrated him due to the beauty of his game, when he's on. The fact is, when you step back and look at the big picture of his overall play (rather than the narow focus of this great play or that great play), he's simply not a very efficient offensive player, an average play-maker compared to how he's perceived as one and a below average defender (despite the steals) mostly due to his size.

He's a fantastic show. But he's not the mini-Jordan that some make him out to be. He's got serious flaws that put him out of the highest tier of players.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> He's got serious flaws that put him out of the highest tier of players.


BUT....can they rap?


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> I think any claims of a fall-off are overdone. He is still essentially what he's always been. However, I think he's been overrated since Day 1. I used to be one of those who overrated him due to the beauty of his game, when he's on. The fact is, when you step back and look at the big picture of his overall play (rather than the narow focus of this great play or that great play), he's simply not a very efficient offensive player, an average play-maker compared to how he's perceived as one and a below average defender (despite the steals) mostly due to his size.
> 
> He's a fantastic show. But he's not the mini-Jordan that some make him out to be. He's got serious flaws that put him out of the highest tier of players.


i agree with some of your points, but wouldn't you say that the majority of his flaws are mainly attributed to his small stature, not just his defense (which really isn't as bad as you make it out to be... he's small but very quick and tenacious, he does cause problems for opposing PGs)?


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## #1BucksFan (Apr 14, 2003)

How could you underrate a former MVP?

This is the same as the Tim Duncan underrated thread. They get labeled by the media.

AI=Thug
Duncan=boring

They're also MVP's. Ask any player if AI is underrated. They'll tell you that he's easily up there with Shaq and Garnett as players that can win a game for a team by simply being on it.

Its the media's fault if AI is underrated. They are in the Kobe/TMac/KG hype mode (not that they don't deserve it) while AI, Duncan, and Kidd are on the second level.

Like I always said, **** the media.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>#1BucksFan</b>!
> How could you underrate a former MVP?
> 
> This is the same as the Tim Duncan underrated thread. They get labeled by the media.
> ...


Good post, and your absoultly correct. AI was labeled a thug, because of his "Street Image" and the Bowling Alley accident. It's total Bull****. 

AI is one of the few players who plays with passion and will take over games.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> 
> 
> i agree with some of your points, but wouldn't you say that the majority of his flaws are mainly attributed to his small stature, not just his defense


Entirely possible. But it's all part of the package, isn't it? I'm not judging talent or skill...just effectiveness as a basketball player. If his height hurts his ability to make shots at a higher clip, that doesn't mean his low shooting percentage ceases to be a problem.



> (which really isn't as bad as you make it out to be... he's small but very quick and tenacious, he does cause problems for opposing PGs)?


All I said about his defense was that it was "below average." I think the ease with which players post him up or shoot over him definitely makes him a generally ineffective defender. Yes, he can sometimes hound a player with his quickness and make the handle tough and even get steals relatively often. But that doesn't cancel out how easy it is to get a shot up over him.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

What I want to know about AI is, where does he go from here? He's been to the Finals, he's been an MVP, he has some scoring titles, but those things are a few years behind him. I think the Sixers' best shot at a championship in the Iverson era has passed. What is he going to accomplish in the rest of his career?


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

i agree with spriggan.


also i think...

as long as he's basically the only option on that team, it would be useless to move him to the point.


iverson is the type of player who when matched with a talented big man a la the webbers, nowtizkis, duncans, he would defer to them, and be an effective point.

i just dont see why they should waste his talents by having him bring the ball up, initiate the offense, and BE the offense as well.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Yes I think he is

He's done more in his career than Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, and many of these superstars


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Allen Iverson is one of those guys who's never gets his just credit, he's either way overrated, or underrated. It's that ebb and flow that makes it hard for someone to really tab just how good he is.

Those who tend to be fans of Iverson, put him up as one of the top five talents in the game. Those who hate him put him a lot lower. And depending on his latest action on the court, one side is bound to be louder than the other. After everything that took place last year, the naysayers spoke louder with reason.

I think he's a great player in today's NBA, but he's in the lower half of the top ten in the game. He's great at playing the lanes, but isn't a good man up defender. Is a nice passer, but sometimes gets carried away trying to make the fancy pass instead of making one that's just as effective but not flashy. Also sometimes him getting on fire, results in him still firing up bad shots, when the best part of his game is obviously his penetration.

While might be underrated now, the meter will flip all the way in the other direction after a successful run in the Olympics.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

He's underrated! IMO!

He's a MAD scorer and a great passer... He's going to rock the league now that he's at PG again... 24ppg, 3.8rpg 8apg 42.5FG%

He's FG% will increase because he will shoot less...and will have at least 7.5apg... If philly had a good shooter or a dominat big man he could have even more! People don't seen to notice... but Iverson average 27ppg and almost 6apg in his carrer at SG! Imagine now at the point!


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

Um.. it appears he also scored 40+ points in more than 50 games!  How can a guy like that be overrated!?  If there's one ting he is... is underrated! :upset: 

Philly is going to do a lot better this year:
Dalembert / Coleman / Hamilton
Thomas / Marc Jackson / McCaskill
Iguodala / K.Korver / K.Brown
Green / Mckey / Salmons
Iverson / Ollie

MacCulloch is not giong to come back(Too bad... he's a good guy) and we should trade Robinson for a good role player... or Maybe A.Walker if possible...


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

As much as I hate to admit, Minstrel was right on in his posts.

Iverson is a volume shooter who has had the power to shoot as much as he has wanted. How many of those 40 point games were wins? How many did he shoot over 45%?

The fact is Iverson is nowhere near top 5 in the NBA. And as the 29 year old Iverson gets older, he will continue to lose his quicks. How many guys over 30 do you see that are still super quick? Not many. 

And the problem is that, a huge part of his success has been his speed and quickness, as he gets slower, his step back jumpers, penetration will suffer and he will have a large drop off. 

His best years are past him.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

> His best years are past him.


No questions about that... he's 28 and 6'0! Of couse his prime is gonne... he will not score at will and will not shoot that much... he's back at point and will pass as good as a lot of people! He's not a top5 IMO! But he's easily a top 10... at least in my point of view... just to let you know... NBA.com has Iverson fully reported and from those 50 40+ point games he won about 70%... He goes well when the team goes well even Jordan was like that... If Iverson had somebody to share the points and the ball he whould...

People usually forgets because of hsi bad image... Iverson carried the 76ers his whole carrer! Besides Iverson only 1 or 2 players could help and score in the team every season... Snow.. Mutombo... Ratliff... Mckey... Coleman... Good players... But you gotta admit that the 76ers have been Iverson's team for a long time... and not because Iverson wanted like that (Like Kobe now) but because of bad trades... Iverson wanna win... and he's pissed about what people are saying.. just like Shaq...

It's not wise to piss off ex-MVPs...
I like Phylly for the 4th, 5th or 6th pick in the East...


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> Iverson is a volume shooter who has had the power to shoot as much as he has wanted. How many of those 40 point games were wins? How many did he shoot over 45%?


I was bored, and the Phillies are losing.. so I decided to go look this up. The Sixers are 41-18 when AI throws up 40+ points so I'd say that's good, but I went further and looked up games where he shot 45% or greater and listed them:

Vs Bulls 16-32 (50%) 44 points - L [4/07/97]
Vs Bucks 16-28 (57%) 44 points - L [4/11/97]
Vs Cavaliers 17-32 (53%) 50 points - L [4/12/97]
Vs Bullets 15-29 (52%) 40 points - L [4/14/97]
Vs Timberwolves 15-26 (58%) 43 points - L [4/10/98]
Vs Spurs 14-26 (54%) 46 points - L [2/12/99]
Vs Lakers 17-36 (47%) 41 points - W [3/19/99]
Vs Magic 18-33 (55%) 46 points - L [11/10/99]
Vs Rockets 16-25 (64%) 40 points - W [2/3/00]
Vs Kings 20-40 (50%) 50 points - W [2/6/00]
Vs Nets 15-28 (54%) 41 points - W [2/9/00]
Vs Raptors 17-29 (59%) 44 points - W [3/22/00]
Vs Timberwolves 15-28 (54%) 43 points - W [3/28/00]
Vs Kings 18-36 (50%) 46 points - W [12/30/00]
Vs Sonics 15-30 (50%) 41 points - W [1/05/01]
Vs Cavaliers 20-30 (67%) 54 points - W [1/06/01]
Vs Spurs 17-29 (59%) 40 points - W [1/13/01]
Vs Bulls 15-25 (60%) 43 points - W [1/17/01]
Vs Raptors 20-40 (50%) 51 points - L [1/21/01]
Vs Pistons 14-29 (48%) 44 points - W [1/26/01]
Vs Bucks 17-32 (53%) 49 points - W [2/13/01]
Vs Lakers 14-29 (48%) 40 points - W [2/14/01]
Vs Clippers 16-31 (52%) 42 points - W [2/16/01]
Vs Hornets 17-33 (52%) 47 points - L [2/24/01]
Vs Hawks 16-30 (53%) 47 points - W [3/09/01]
Vs Heat 14-28 (50%) 41 points - L [4/10/01]
Vs Wizards 15-31 (48%) 40 points - W [11/28/01]
Vs Cavaliers 18-29 (62%) 40 points - W [12/15/01]
Vs Rockets 21-42 (50%) 58 points - W [1/15/02]
Vs Celtics 16-31 (52%) 47 points - W [1/25/02]
Vs Nets 15-30 (50%) 43 points - W [3/01/02]
Vs Cavaliers 15-30 (50%) 46 points - W [3/06/02]
Vs Timberwolves 14-29 (48%) 41 points - W [12/18/02]
Vs Cavaliers 12-23 (52%) 41 points - W [2/21/03]
Vs Sonics 15-27 (56%) 40 points - W [3/07/03]
Vs Magic 15-31 (48%) 42 points - W [3/31/03]
Vs Hawks 20-34 (59%) 50 points - W [11/29/03]

To break that down further, that's *37* games where Iverson went for 40+ and shot at least 45%. In those games the Sixers are 27-10. Four of the losses when he went for 40+ shooting at least a 45% clip were in his rookie season. If someone wants to double check.. I got the information from the following places...

--Sixersonline --Basketballreference --Iverson 2003-04 game stats --



> His best years are past him.


I was arguing against Futuristxen on this point just this spring when AI was injured, but I think people are taking a bad season for more than it is. Jason Kidd's game is predicated on speed and he's older than Iverson, and it's not like his speed has seriously dropped off, why Iverson?


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

> Vs Bulls 16-32 (50%) 44 points - L [4/07/97]
> Vs Bucks 16-28 (57%) 44 points - L [4/11/97]
> Vs Cavaliers 17-32 (53%) 50 points - L [4/12/97]
> Vs Bullets 15-29 (52%) 40 points - L [4/14/97]
> ...


Wow... you really got to find a girl mam... Just kidding... Great info...I'm not saying Iverson's prime is not past him... I can agree with that... But so is Shaq's! They can still be efective!

How can this guy be Underrated or overpaid? Le'st not ague about this but i believe this guy is worth the Hall! He's one hell of a offensive and defensive combo player! And one of the best offensive players in history!


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Last year? No

This year? Yes

People are forgetting about him since he onlyplayed 48 games this year


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## Vermillion (Mar 23, 2004)

He was extremely underrated and bashed this season, which hurt me personally because he has always been my favorite player ever since I became interested in basketball and the NBA. I still believe that he's a top 3 SG, and a Top 10 player capable of leading his team to the playoffs with his skills and heart.

Hopefully, with a new attitude, position, and teammates this season, he'll be able to get back the respect from the fans.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

> Vs Bulls 16-32 (50%) 44 points - L [4/07/97]
> Vs Bucks 16-28 (57%) 44 points - L [4/11/97]
> Vs Cavaliers 17-32 (53%) 50 points - L [4/12/97]
> Vs Bullets 15-29 (52%) 40 points - L [4/14/97]
> ...



It's interesting that he had none of these type of games in 04 and the sixers sucked.


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