# Rockets Offseason Plan



## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

move #1 :
Draft JJ Redick with the 10th pick
reason: One of the purest shooters anywhere ... Redick has a beautiful outside stroke that creates fear in the eyes of opponents ... He possesses incredible range and routinely takes shots well beyond the three point line. He's a player that you simply can't leave open anywhere within the area code of the basket ... He has also added a deadly mid range game to his repertoire, with the ability to create shots for himself with ball fakes and the dribble drive … Unbelievable at rolling off screens and hitting the open J ... Redick has picture perfect form, a lightning quick release and gets great elevation on his shot. He is also automatic from the free throw line ... Has a killer instinct and seems to step his game up in ***** situations ... Never appears tired, has great conditioning and work ethic ...

move #2 :
Draft Hassan Adams
reason: One of the top athletes in college basketball...An absolute freak of nature...Explodes off the floor with his unreal vertical leap...Arguably the best dunker in the nation...Excels at the acrobatic play...Best in the nation at the “weakside rebound putback” slam...Exceptional rebounder for his size...Plays much bigger than his 6'4" frame...Has worked hard at becoming more than “just a dunker”...Great at filling in the blanks (tipping passes, taking charges, etc.)...Solid in the *****...Remarkably strong build, which helps him absorb contact and finish near the rim...Plays with high intensity...The phrase “heart and soul of his team” appear in many of his bios...Has all the physical tools to be a shut-down defender...Terrific in the open court...Long arms...Above average ball handler...Hard worker...Great teammate...Phenomenal stamina...Never appears to be breathing hard...Very coachable...Considerable upside.

move #3 :
Sign Rasual Butler with half of the MLE for 4 years
2.5 million
3.0 million
3.5 million
4 million(Team option)

reason: great shooter, long arm, quite athletic.

move #4 :
Sign David Wesley with the vet min.

move #5:
Sign Chuck Hayes with the min

move #6:
Sign Keith Bogans with the other half of MLE for 3 years
2.5 million
3.0 million
3.5 million(team option)

move #7:
trade luther head, stromile swift, ryan bowen(filler)

for

troy murphy

troy murphy is an upgrade for the 4 spot. juwan will no longer start after this trade is done. trade away head and stro, although they have good upsides, but inconsistant. uhh ryan bowen? need i say more?

#8 move:
bring over the Greek Kid

Depth Chart
Rafer Alson/Greek Kid/Bob Sura
JJ Redick/ David Wesley/ Hassan Adams
Mcgrady/ Rasual Butler/Keith Bogans/Chuck Hayes
Troy Murphy/Juwan Howard/Chuck Hayes
Yao/ Mutumbo

what i am trying to achieve here is rockets get younger and tradable assets. During the season we can trade Keith Bogans for a third string center and/or maybe draft picks, that will be great.


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## chn353 (Mar 12, 2006)

i like ur vision but its goina be hard getting those players like troy murphy n rasual butler and oh.. dont resign wesley that would be good


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## reno2000 (Aug 23, 2005)

i would definately do the deal for troy murphy, also signing rasual and bringing bogans back sounds good....but i would pick someone else with the draft picks

use the 1st round pick to get someone like ronnie brewer or mardy collins...the last thing we need is a small SG like reddick, when the rest of the league is going towards 6'6"+ two guards. either of those two, brewer/collins, can also play the point, so that would take some pressure of alston. with the second round pick, i would try to get someone with hustle, but that can hit open shots (unlike bowen and for a large part hayes).

i would also make sure wesley is checking in his bags, and boarding the next flight outta houston as soon as this season is over. the so called vet experience he brings is totally outweighed by his lack of consistency.

that would give a depth chart of...

Rafer Alson | Greek Kid | Bob Sura
Brewer/Collins | Keith Bogans | Bob Sura
Mcgrady | Rasual Butler | 2nd Rd Pick
Troy Murphy | Juwan Howard | Chuck Hayes | 2nd Rd Pick
Yao | Mutumbo |


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Interesting proposed trade for Murph, and I think Mullin can be convinced to make a change with his team. But.... can we keep Head around? I know he's one of our most tradable assets, but that's 'cuz he will be a good player, and will be around this league for a long time.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

chn353 said:


> i like ur vision but its goina be hard getting those players like troy murphy n rasual butler and oh.. dont resign wesley that would be good


I have asked some gs fans in some other board( i can't tell u where), they said they would do that trade. 

yea rasual butler might be hard to get, but with all those big free agents on the market(peja, harrington etc) rasual butler should be our first option, if we make a run at our first option, we should be okay.

wesley is still a good player, he started for us. if we can bring him back for vet min, he should play around 15 min with his old legs. I know he is not good, but he is not horrible, still can hit some shots.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

Yao Mania said:


> Interesting proposed trade for Murph, and I think Mullin can be convinced to make a change with his team. But.... can we keep Head around? I know he's one of our most tradable assets, but that's 'cuz he will be a good player, and will be around this league for a long time.


like u said, head is our only tradable assets. Warriors aren't gonna trade murphy for swift + first + filler. i think head is the only reason they would do this deal. To me, head will never gonna start in this league, he is more of an offensive threat off the bench. assume if we draft a SG with wesley as backup, head wont get much mins.


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## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

#1 Draft Roy if he still there if not trade down alittle and draft Richard Roby(will be a way better player then JJ in the NBA) Robe is a kid that can shoot but also play D.

#2 2nd round pick get Allan Ray or JAmes White or Adams.

#3 pickup someone in free agent market that can shoot(don't care if that the only thing he can do)

#4 this is YAo team now.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

thetennisyao said:


> I have asked some gs fans in some other board( i can't tell u where), they said they would do that trade.
> 
> yea rasual butler might be hard to get, but with all those big free agents on the market(peja, harrington etc) rasual butler should be our first option, if we make a run at our first option, we should be okay.
> 
> wesley is still a good player, he started for us. if we can bring him back for vet min, he should play around 15 min with his old legs. I know he is not good, but he is not horrible, still can hit some shots.


Count me in as one Warriors fan who WON'T do that trade. There's no reason for the Warriors to trade their starting PF for an expensive backup F/C, a streaky and undersized shooter in Luther Head, who also is too similar to their own Monta Ellis, plus a fill-in like Ryan Bowen.

Really, what's the gain here?


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

MightyReds2020 said:


> Count me in as one Warriors fan who WON'T do that trade. There's no reason for the Warriors to trade their starting PF for an expensive backup F/C, a streaky and undersized shooter in Luther Head, who also is too similar to their own Monta Ellis, plus a fill-in like Ryan Bowen.
> 
> Really, what's the gain here?


ur GM is trying to break the team up, cuz ur team has been in the lottery for the past 12 years. something is not working in there.

if u go with ur current roster, no playoff for u next year too.


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## jiangsheng (Feb 11, 2006)

...will Mutumbo play another year?


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## Cornholio (Feb 13, 2005)

Juwan Howard plays like crap from the bench, so we would need to trade him too or start him.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

cornholio said:


> Juwan Howard plays like crap from the bench, so we would need to trade him too or start him.


yea start him, but give him like 15 mins, then murphy(if we get him) takes the rest


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

thetennisyao said:


> ur GM is trying to break the team up, cuz ur team has been in the lottery for the past 12 years. something is not working in there.
> 
> if u go with ur current roster, no playoff for u next year too.


Chris Mullin does want to improve this team according to his recent comments (so does every other GM in this league), but the keyword here is 'improve'. The Warriors should deal Murphy if that means they are getting an upgrade at either of the frontcourt position, but dealing Murphy for basically 3 average-impact players who won't help moreso than Murphy already is?

Again, what is the point? Trade for the sake of trade?

By the way, the team is being in the lottery for the past 12 years. So what? Mullin is being in the helm for only 2 seasons, he shouldn't be held accountable for the failure in the 10 previous seasons. He should build this team into a title contender, not merely to make the playoffs. He has failed so far, but 2 years is too short of time, IMO, to break things up unless a tremendous opportunity comes along, and I would never think that the player of Swift's and/or Head's caliber is one of those 'can't missed' opportunity.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

thetennisyao said:


> move #3 :
> Sign Rasual Butler with half of the MLE for 4 years
> 2.5 million
> 3.0 million
> ...


The only two moves I agree with you on. Everything else is puro basura.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

jiangsheng said:


> ...will Mutumbo play another year?


I think he's got one more left in him, physically and contract-wise


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

MightyReds2020 said:


> Chris Mullin does want to improve this team according to his recent comments (so does every other GM in this league), but the keyword here is 'improve'. The Warriors should deal Murphy if that means they are getting an upgrade at either of the frontcourt position, but dealing Murphy for basically 3 average-impact players who won't help moreso than Murphy already is?
> 
> Again, what is the point? Trade for the sake of trade?
> 
> By the way, the team is being in the lottery for the past 12 years. So what? Mullin is being in the helm for only 2 seasons, he shouldn't be held accountable for the failure in the 10 previous seasons. He should build this team into a title contender, not merely to make the playoffs. He has failed so far, but 2 years is too short of time, IMO, to break things up unless a tremendous opportunity comes along, and I would never think that the player of Swift's and/or Head's caliber is one of those 'can't missed' opportunity.


yea mullin tried to build warriors into a title contender by signing foyle fisher and dun dun for huge contracts. Great moves! Lets see how can he keep pitreus. 

murphy's contract is too big to trade imo, his contract has like 5 years left? warriors acquire smaller contracts without losing much talents. head has been great for us so far, hitting big shots, hustle and stuff... if its not for murphy, whos a 15-10 player, we wouldn't wanna trade head. 

rebuild is the keyword for the warriors. There will be followup moves for u guys, maybe garnett?


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

Gotham2krazy said:


> The only two moves I agree with you on. Everything else is puro basura.


u wanna explain why my friend?


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

thetennisyao said:


> u wanna explain why my friend?


Well, I wouldn't see the point in trying to get Troy Murphy, no offense, he's good, but JVG's glued to Juwan and why bring in another PF, when we have a future star in Chuck Hayes (as long as he gets the minutes). As for drafting, I believe that JJ Reddick, won't perform on a Pro-level, I've said this before and before that if his shot is the only thing we're drafting him for, then what good will he be? To me, him and Adams, are tweeners. I'd rather draft Brandon Roy, he's a hard worker, can play defense, has the experience, and can shoot.


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## reno2000 (Aug 23, 2005)

Gotham2krazy said:


> Well, I wouldn't see the point in trying to get Troy Murphy, no offense, he's good, but JVG's glued to Juwan and why bring in another PF, *when we have a future star in Chuck Hayes (as long as he gets the minutes)*. As for drafting, I believe that JJ Reddick, won't perform on a Pro-level, I've said this before and before that if his shot is the only thing we're drafting him for, then what good will he be? To me, him and Adams, are tweeners. I'd rather draft Brandon Roy, he's a hard worker, can play defense, has the experience, and can shoot.


Are you serious??? Dont get me wrong, Chuck is great and all, but he is an undersized PF, who doesnt exactly have the skill set of Marion or other good undersized PF. The best i could see chuck becoming is a defensive spark of the bench to lift the intensity of the team. Something in the neighbourhood of 20mins a game.

I do agree with drafting Roy, but i doubt he will still be available when the rockets come to pick. Brewer is more likely to be at that 8 - 12 range.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

reno2000 said:


> I do agree with drafting Roy, but i doubt he will still be available when the rockets come to pick. Brewer is more likely to be at that 8 - 12 range.


Just keep losing XD


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## chn353 (Mar 12, 2006)

i agree with reno... pack wesleys bags and deport him to another club.. maybe pistons so he can help them lose and plz.... get rid of bowen


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## chn353 (Mar 12, 2006)

check out rasual butler 

http://www.nba.com/games/20060321/LACNOK/boxscore.html?nav=scoreboardhome

his what we need


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

2 excellent ideas with impossible mission:

JJ Redick will be in top 7 draft, not 10th;

Swift/Head proposal can't work, you don't know how to value the trade.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

Ballscientist said:


> 2 excellent ideas with impossible mission:
> 
> JJ Redick will be in top 7 draft, not 10th;
> 
> Swift/Head proposal can't work, you don't know how to value the trade.


first of all, we are trying to lose games right now. no one can predict whats gonna happen during lottery. remember that bucks jumped from 6th pick to 1st pick. if we get the 10th pick, jj might still be around because all the teams are above us have a legit swingman.

the trade will definitely work because warriors are trying to rebuild. They can't make the playoff with their current roster. of course there will be follow up trades for the warriors(maybe KG? i think warriors have the best chance).


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

Gotham2krazy said:


> Well, I wouldn't see the point in trying to get Troy Murphy, no offense, he's good, but JVG's glued to Juwan and why bring in another PF, when we have a future star in Chuck Hayes (as long as he gets the minutes). As for drafting, I believe that JJ Reddick, won't perform on a Pro-level, I've said this before and before that if his shot is the only thing we're drafting him for, then what good will he be? To me, him and Adams, are tweeners. I'd rather draft Brandon Roy, he's a hard worker, can play defense, has the experience, and can shoot.


chuck hayes was undrafted and he is only 6'6. he is a future star? i think not.

u assume that JJ can't play pro-level, who told u that he couldn't? in fact he is averaging 27 pts per game in NCAA, he is a lot better than luther head. Yea, JJ redick was just an example. There is a chance that he wont be around, then we will take brandon roy.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

thetennisyao said:


> yea mullin tried to build warriors into a title contender by signing foyle fisher and dun dun for huge contracts. Great moves! Lets see how can he keep pitreus.
> 
> murphy's contract is too big to trade imo, his contract has like 5 years left? warriors acquire smaller contracts without losing much talents. head has been great for us so far, hitting big shots, hustle and stuff... if its not for murphy, whos a 15-10 player, we wouldn't wanna trade head.
> 
> rebuild is the keyword for the warriors. There will be followup moves for u guys, maybe garnett?


Well, Mullin certainly has done some head-scracthing moves over the past 2 seasons, but that's not the discussion in this thread. The point is: If the Warriors want to trade Murphy, they can certainly get a better offer than what you offered.

Think about this, it's not like Swift is on a short contract. His plus Head's is almost equalled to what Murphy is getting, which by no mean is too overpaid for a double-double machine. If the Warriors want save a little, why get Swift plus Head?

And don't overrated Head. He is what he is - an undersized, savvy shooting guard who has a knack for making big shots and is a good defender because of his quickness, provided he doesn't get matched up with taller shooting guards that often. Now there's news for you: Head is just a combo guard who does not look like have a starter quality in him, unless he can develop into a point man, which at this point is quite far-strecth. He is at best a good 6th-man on a winning team until further notice.

Now another news: The Warriors have a guard who can hit big shot in Derek Fisher; they also have a cat-quick, undersized SG who also has high basketball IQ and plays good defense in 20-year-old Monta Ellis. Again what is the point for the Warriors to acquire what they already have?

Murphy certainly is a good fit right next to Yao, but you have to look at both sides when you suggested a trade. Swift and Head would have little to no use in Oakland because the of competitions, and they are getting rid of they most consistent big-man in the process?


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

By the way, the Warriors are not going to 'rebuild' in the coming offseason from all indications. The reason is simple: They ARE in the process of rebuilding. They are eyeing a big-name big guy if possible, but they are not getting rid of guys simply to create cap space - It's too tough of a job in itself.

Afterall, the Warriors are finishing up only the 2nd year of Mullin's rebuilding project. Isn't it too soon to tear it down?


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

Gotham2krazy said:


> Everything else is puro basura.


Educate me please.. what is puro basura?


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

Wow.. Chuck as a future star? 

I am probably one of his biggest fans and I never considered that. He can make an impact and will fight whenever he is put in the game, but I can't see him ever being a "headliner".

Chuck could someday be the best sixth man in the NBA... that's what I see in his future. He has the hustle to impact a game's momentum, but no matter how hard he tries he will never be a huge star. I hope that they do sign him for next year, but all I really want is for JVG to recognize that he does deserve more minutes, not just the last three minutes of the game when there is no hope left of a win.


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## Cornholio (Feb 13, 2005)

HayesFan said:


> Educate me please.. what is puro basura?


Just garbage, and it should be "pura basura".


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Ballscientist said:


> 2 excellent ideas with impossible mission:
> 
> JJ Redick will be in top 7 draft, not 10th;
> 
> Swift/Head proposal can't work, you don't know how to value the trade.


sweet, no one else has said it yet: Impossible is Nothing



*Go NeTs*


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

cornholio said:


> Just garbage, and it should be "pura basura".


ahha! Gotcha.. now it translates in my mind. Thanks C!


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

Ballscientist said:


> JJ Redick will be in top 7 draft, not 10th;


That's where he should be, but he'll seep through to the 10-15 range.

There's nothing teams love to overlook more than a short white guy who they feel can do nothing more than shoot the ball. Those GMs will regret not drafting Redick.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

MightyReds2020 said:


> Well, Mullin certainly has done some head-scracthing moves over the past 2 seasons, but that's not the discussion in this thread. The point is: If the Warriors want to trade Murphy, they can certainly get a better offer than what you offered.
> 
> Think about this, it's not like Swift is on a short contract. His plus Head's is almost equalled to what Murphy is getting, which by no mean is too overpaid for a double-double machine. If the Warriors want save a little, why get Swift plus Head?
> 
> ...


I did look at both side. If warriors want to make the playoff, they need a legit allstar player who can take over the game. Warriors have talents, but no big star. In order to acquire an all star player, warriors need players with good potential and small contract. For example, if they make a run at KG this summer, T-wolves would want young players and pick. T-wolves don't want murphy, who has 5 or 6 years under contract, they want players like head, diogu, etc.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

reno2000 said:


> I do agree with drafting Roy, but i doubt he will still be available when the rockets come to pick. Brewer is more likely to be at that 8 - 12 range.


the rockets are only a couple of games out of having the 7th pick and only 5 or so out of the 5th pick. factor in that the rockets are not going to win many games without tmac with the way everyone but yao is playing right now, and the rockets should have a pretty high pick.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

rocketeer said:


> the rockets are only a couple of games out of having the 7th pick and only 5 or so out of the 5th pick. factor in that the rockets are not going to win many games without tmac with the way everyone but yao is playing right now, and the rockets should have a pretty high pick.


hey did u notice that we just lost 6 straight? and our record without tmac is 4-17.


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## CbobbyB (Feb 16, 2006)

jworth said:


> That's where he should be, but he'll seep through to the 10-15 range.
> 
> There's nothing teams love to overlook more than a short white guy who they feel can do nothing more than shoot the ball. Those GMs will regret not drafting Redick.


LoL.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

rocketeer said:


> the rockets are only a couple of games out of having the 7th pick and only 5 or so out of the 5th pick. factor in that the rockets are not going to win many games without tmac with the way everyone but yao is playing right now, and the rockets should have a pretty high pick.


we could also hit the lottery again and bring home the #1


*Go NeTs*


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

thetennisyao said:


> I did look at both side. If warriors want to make the playoff, they need a legit allstar player who can take over the game. Warriors have talents, but no big star. In order to acquire an all star player, warriors need players with good potential and small contract. For example, if they make a run at KG this summer, T-wolves would want young players and pick. T-wolves don't want murphy, who has 5 or 6 years under contract, they want players like head, diogu, etc.


So, under your scenario, the Warriors should give up on Murphy because they could use Luther Head as one of the chips to acquire a player of KG's caliber? Let me tell you again, the Warriors have a bunch of talented young kids who are in rather small salaries to entice T'Wolves. They don't need to get a player like Head to 'sweetened the pot' because: a) Head is NOT that enticing, certainly not better, if at all, compared to a player like Mickael Pietrus; b) The Warriors' young kid consists of Monta Ellis, Pietrus, Andries Biedrins, Ike Diogu, plus one a top-10 pick this year - that's almost at all positions for the interesting team to pick from.

Furthermore, to absorb KG's salary, the Warriors do need some guy who make big bucks and who doesn't suck to make the salary works, and Murphy, along with JRich and Baron Davis, is one of their most valuable 'chip' in such condition. In a hypothetical scenario, Murphy's and JRich's contracts added up to barely came close to KG's, throw in a couple of their young kids mentioned above, that's a deal T'Wolves can legitimately consider. I guess I just failed to see how Head will come into play (for the Wariors) in an effort to get a superstar-caliber talent.


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

Pimped Out said:


> we could also hit the lottery again and bring home the #1
> 
> 
> *Go NeTs*


So would you pick Morrison... Mr "hit my head with the ball really hard cause I am pumped" or would you take Reddick.. Mr "live high and mighty or die a slow horrible death by the three"

or Do you pass them both up for someone else?


Edit: Now that I think about it... maybe this should be a new thread??


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

HayesFan said:


> So would you pick Morrison... Mr "hit my head with the ball really hard cause I am pumped" or would you take Reddick.. Mr "live high and mighty or die a slow horrible death by the three"
> 
> or Do you pass them both up for someone else?


with the first pick?

if we get the first pick we don't even consider morrison or redick. aldridge is the pick.

i want to stay away from morrison. let him be someone elses mistake. redick i only take if we end up in the late lottery and everyone else worthy of a pick is gone. redick can be solid on our team, but i'd rather have a player that can be more than that.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

MightyReds2020 said:


> So, under your scenario, the Warriors *should *give up on Murphy because they could use Luther Head as one of the chips to acquire a player of KG's caliber? Let me tell you again, the Warriors have a bunch of talented young kids who are in rather small salaries to entice T'Wolves. They don't need to get a player like Head to 'sweetened the pot' because: a) Head is NOT that enticing, certainly not better, if at all, compared to a player like Mickael Pietrus; b) The Warriors' young kid consists of Monta Ellis, Pietrus, Andries Biedrins, Ike Diogu, plus one a top-10 pick this year - that's almost at all positions for the interesting team to pick from.
> 
> Furthermore, to absorb KG's salary, the Warriors do need some guy who make big bucks and who doesn't suck to make the salary works, and Murphy, along with JRich and Baron Davis, is one of their most valuable 'chip' in such condition. In a hypothetical scenario, Murphy's and JRich's contracts added up to barely came close to KG's, throw in a couple of their young kids mentioned above, that's a deal T'Wolves can legitimately consider. I guess I just failed to see how Head will come into play (for the Wariors) in an effort to get a superstar-caliber talent.


I didn't say they should, but it is a deal might happen and it benefit both teams. It looks like a bad deal for the warriors. but i think swift is a great for the warrior's system, and more teams interested in head than murphy. I have asked some of the warriors fans, half of them do it, half of them don't.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

rocketeer said:


> with the first pick?
> 
> if we get the first pick we don't even consider morrison or redick. aldridge is the pick.
> 
> i want to stay away from morrison. let him be someone elses mistake. redick i only take if we end up in the late lottery and everyone else worthy of a pick is gone. redick can be solid on our team, but i'd rather have a player that can be more than that.


agreed on aldridge.

and are you worried morrison is a mistake from a skill standpoint or a crazy standpoint. because i think this team could use a little face smashing crazy. ive only really seen his 3 worst games of the season so i cant really comment on his skill. i do like his crazy though.


*Go NeTs*


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Pimped Out said:


> agreed on aldridge.
> 
> and are you worried morrison is a mistake from a skill standpoint or a crazy standpoint. because i think this team could use a little face smashing crazy. ive only really seen his 3 worst games of the season so i cant really comment on his skill. i do like his crazy though.


i mean that i don't think he will be a very good player, and not one worthy of a high pick.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Sign Free Agents:
- Keith Bogans 1/2 MLE
- Rasual Butler 1/2 MLE
- Chuck Hayes Min
- Vassili Spanoulis Min

Trade:
- Stromile Swift & 2nd Rounder via Minnesota for
- Marko Jaric & Mark Madsen

Draft: 
- Hilton Armstrong

DC:
PG: Rafer Alston | Luther Head | Vassili Spanoulis
SG: Tracy McGrady | Keith Bogans
SF: Marko Jaric | Rasual Butler | Chuck Hayes
PF: Juwan Howard | Hilton Armstrong | Mark Madsen
CN: Yao Ming | Dikembe Mutombo

Rationale for Trade:
Jaric is somewhere between Bobby Sura and Mike Miller. He's got good energy, defense, and is a respectable passer. Madsen also adds energy to the team and should be perfectly servicable for a third-stringer coming in behind the PF and C spots.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

thetennisyao said:


> hey did u notice that we just lost 6 straight? and our record without tmac is 4-17.


What was it without Yao then? Just curious


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

HayesFan said:


> or Do you pass them both up for someone else?


I would, Morrison can't play D to me, but that's just IMO.


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## debarge (Nov 13, 2005)

Draft Roy/Gay/Carney/Tucker/Alderidge, nobody else really aids us in being a better team. We need a two guard, this team has no size outside of Yao? We are sorely undersized at the 4/2 spots, the org. doesn't sound like they're even considering moving on from JHo/Stro for whatever reason. Neither really gives us a good defensive presence there. Wh/ makes Yao's job twice as hard, that's wasted energy. But those are the facts most likely, same PF next yr?

So let's at least get a good 2 grd to move up in the west. And that's not Morrison/Redick, not for us? We need a shooter/defender/slasher w/ quick feet and athleticism that will grow on our team? I don't even wanna hear about somebody whose under 6'5? :curse: No more midgets on our team. 

For the love of God don't re-sign Wesley, Bogans, Bowen, Brunson, Lampe, Dke? Keep Hayes, Frahm and let them grow w/ Head. IMO, these guys have some skills, Hayes is a rebounder/defender, Frahm is a shooter and has size, Luther is Luther and is CLUTCH. I think those 3 guys can improve 'together' w/ our core guys, TMac Yao Rafer + our draftee. I always said we never should've traded Lonny Baxter, he could've been our backup center next year. I'd look at Tony Battie, he's tough and has a shot, and can defend/block shots. As for the afore mentioned players, they've shown they cannot produce even on a streaky level like Rafer? Wes and Dke are just too damn old now to help us, Gumby plays Wes too many minutes, just like he did w/ Jimmy Jackson which basically has ended his career? 36 yr old dudes can't play like 38-44 mins? Unless they wear #23 and have their own shoe brand... :biggrin: 

Please Lord help the brain-trusts of the Roc's use good judgement this summer? After this season, we deserve at least a 50win yr next yr w/ a playoff series win. But let's not get nuts, you don't build a championship team in one year, it takes awhile maybe not at all. You have to Be a Contender before you can seriously Contend...


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

thetennisyao said:


> I didn't say they should, but it is a deal might happen and it benefit both teams. It looks like a bad deal for the warriors. but i think swift is a great for the warrior's system, and more teams interested in head than murphy. I have asked some of the warriors fans, half of them do it, half of them don't.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagreed then because I don't think that deal benefited the Warriors if it goes down, as explained in my previous posts. I also don't think Swift is a great fit for the Warriors - we need more 'smart' basketball player, not less, especially one with terrible work ethic (Remember, he was supposedly a 'great fit' in Houston. He still could, but he has long way to go).

Head a more desired commodity than Murphy? That's not a fact, that's just your speculation. Personally I really have a hard time understanding why an undersized SG is a hotter commodity than a double-double PF, eventhough one with hefty contract (Not THAT hefty, by the way, considering Murphy's only getting about 1.5~2M more than Juwan Howard each season). I guess it could be an 'eye of beholder' thing, but as I said, the Warriors already have several kids as talented as Head that could be available in right deals. There's really no need to add one more who likely won't be able to distinguished himself from this group.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

TManiAC said:


> Sign Free Agents:
> - Keith Bogans 1/2 MLE
> - Rasual Butler 1/2 MLE
> - Chuck Hayes Min
> ...


Mad Dog's no longer with Minny, and I don't think Jaric is a good fit for this team (nor is he suitable for playing SF!)

I do like to see us make a run at Rasual like most of you suggested though, a hard-nose player who should play well with our youth movement.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

MightyReds2020 said:


> I guess we'll have to agree to disagreed then because I don't think that deal benefited the Warriors if it goes down, as explained in my previous posts. I also don't think Swift is a great fit for the Warriors - we need more 'smart' basketball player, not less, especially one with terrible work ethic (Remember, he was supposedly a 'great fit' in Houston. He still could, but he has long way to go).
> 
> Head a more desired commodity than Murphy? That's not a fact, that's just your speculation. Personally I really have a hard time understanding why an undersized SG is a hotter commodity than a double-double PF, eventhough one with hefty contract (Not THAT hefty, by the way, considering Murphy's only getting about 1.5~2M more than Juwan Howard each season). I guess it could be an 'eye of beholder' thing, but as I said, the Warriors already have several kids as talented as Head that could be available in right deals. There's really no need to add one more who likely won't be able to distinguished himself from this group.


I am sorry, but most warriors fans will do that trade. if u give swift mins, he should be getting the numbers murphy is getting, but jvg wouldn't play him.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

thetennisyao said:


> I am sorry, but most warriors fans will do that trade. if u give swift mins, he should be getting the numbers murphy is getting, but jvg wouldn't play him.


Part of that is Swift, though. He's bone-headed and doesn't bring his best but maybe 10% of the time (if that). That is really the biggest reason why he hasn't done well with the Rockets. When he gets PT he rarely makes the most of it.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

jworth said:


> Part of that is Swift, though. He's bone-headed and doesn't bring his best but maybe 10% of the time (if that). That is really the biggest reason why he hasn't done well with the Rockets. When he gets PT he rarely makes the most of it.


Agrees, we have to MAKE him WANT TO play. I think JVG has to work some type of psychology on hiim, make him earn his minutes by maybe deactivating him one game or so.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Yao Mania said:


> Mad Dog's no longer with Minny, and I don't think Jaric is a good fit for this team (nor is he suitable for playing SF!)
> 
> I do like to see us make a run at Rasual like most of you suggested though, a hard-nose player who should play well with our youth movement.



Why not? I dont think SF would be his ideal position, but he is 6'7," 220 lbs. His passing and defense is a premium. And the fact that he can play 3 positions is also an added bonus, allowing more flexibility for matchups.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

TManiAC said:


> Why not? I dont think SF would be his ideal position, but he is 6'7," 220 lbs. His passing and defense is a premium. And the fact that he can play 3 positions is also an added bonus, allowing more flexibility for matchups.


Jaric can't score for life though.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

thetennisyao said:


> I am sorry, but most warriors fans will do that trade. if u give swift mins, he should be getting the numbers murphy is getting, but jvg wouldn't play him.


Why you kept bringing up 'the Warriors fans you know' as an argument point, yet rarely provide any solid reasons to refute my points? How many Warriors fans you've talked to? 10? 20? There might be hundreds out there who would have disagreed with you for all you know.

Also, perhaps you didn't even realize this but you are contradicting yourself. Two posts earlier you mentioned 'half of the Warriors fans you know' would do this deal and one post later, it became 'most of the Warriors' fans'...I hardly see any consistency here.

As regard to Swift's minutes, there's a reason JVG isn't playing him much - he can't remember plays well. He is like a 'one-man wreaking crew' out there who wreaks havoc on his own team's offensive sets. OK, maybe I am exxagerating a little bit, but you are expecting us to trade you a starting caliber, albeit a weaker one in this PF-heavy league, PF who will replace Juwan Howard in your starting lineup - that Juwan Howard who beat out Swift as a starter - with Luther Head as another bait. Well, all I can say is I personally hardly see the any reasoning behind Warriors' motive when all they need in more quality, not quantity.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Gotham2krazy said:


> Jaric can't score for life though.


Does he really need to?

I cant see him any better than fourth scoring option playing alongside Yao, Mac, Howard, and Skip. He can penetrate and open up some space for others to score, he can pass to get others easier shots, and he can play defense for us to score off of as well. Plus with a deep backcourt rotation of Bogans, Head, Butler, and Hayes he can be very effective playing around 24-28 minutes a game spread out between PG and SF. We can plug Butler if scoring is needed when our scorers are having a rough night.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

MightyReds2020 said:


> Why you kept bringing up 'the Warriors fans you know' as an argument point, yet rarely provide any solid reasons to refute my points? How many Warriors fans you've talked to? 10? 20? There might be hundreds out there who would have disagreed with you for all you know.
> 
> Also, perhaps you didn't even realize this but you are contradicting yourself. Two posts earlier you mentioned 'half of the Warriors fans you know' would do this deal and one post later, it became 'most of the Warriors' fans'...I hardly see any consistency here.
> 
> As regard to Swift's minutes, there's a reason JVG isn't playing him much - he can't remember plays well. He is like a 'one-man wreaking crew' out there who wreaks havoc on his own team's offensive sets. OK, maybe I am exxagerating a little bit, but you are expecting us to trade you a starting caliber, albeit a weaker one in this PF-heavy league, PF who will replace Juwan Howard in your starting lineup - that Juwan Howard who beat out Swift as a starter - with Luther Head as another bait. Well, all I can say is I personally hardly see the any reasoning behind Warriors' motive when all they need in more quality, not quantity.


its good enough that i asked 10 or 20, i don't have time to ask 100 ppl. u r not the only warrior fan, and i don't wanna argue with someone who doesn't know ****.


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## debarge (Nov 13, 2005)

jworth said:


> Part of that is Swift, though. He's bone-headed and doesn't bring his best but maybe 10% of the time (if that). That is really the biggest reason why he hasn't done well with the Rockets. When he gets PT he rarely makes the most of it.


Swift's biggest problem is Swift. He's just plain lazy, that's not Gumby's fault? (for once) Swift doesn't have the desire to really make himself a 'better' player. He just wants to be 'accepted' on the talent he thinks he already has. That's why he came out of LSU so early? He wasn't ready, but thought he was since he could out-leap everyone else. Well, buddy so sorry to inform you, in the NBA you can't just out-jump everybody to being an allstar. :eek8: 
Maybe Tom Tibideau can work w/ him some this summer? If Stromile will even consider 'working hard' this summer? That's the big question...when will or will he ever... decide that he owes something to this organization for BELIEVING HIM :raised_ey As fans we basically do not, I'm not saying he can't get better and be the Kenyon Martin we fantasized about, but he has to want it. _And right now he dont want it..._
Unless we can get someone 'helpful' defensively/offensively and passionate about playing, you may as well stick with him. He actually isn't our issue in terms of salary...30mil/5yrs isn't too much in today's NBA. DWes makes that, JHo is around 9mil? So I don't have a problem w/ Swifts salary? If anything he's very tradeable? I'm sure lots of Eastern Conf. teams would want him w/ so a low salary. But again, unless you're gonna get someone much better than him why not keep him? He may 'grow' in confidence and consistency in time? :raised_ey 
I hope we see more of Richie Frahm, he seems to have a nice stroke? That would be very useful w/ Tracy comes back next year. At least invite him to training camp. Let him learn our system fully then make a decision. He looks to be a decent post-passer to Yao/Stro so he's definitely got some skills made for us?
I would like to get a good useful 2 guard in FA like Jamal Crawford, I think he's perfect. Draft the best 'player' we can get in the draft, and continue the youth movement.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

TManiAC said:


> Does he really need to?
> 
> I cant see him any better than fourth scoring option playing alongside Yao, Mac, Howard, and Skip. He can penetrate and open up some space for others to score, he can pass to get others easier shots, and he can play defense for us to score off of as well. Plus with a deep backcourt rotation of Bogans, Head, Butler, and Hayes he can be very effective playing around 24-28 minutes a game spread out between PG and SF. We can plug Butler if scoring is needed when our scorers are having a rough night.


I mean, it's great if we use him as a backup PG, but it isn't any good to play him at the 2 with McGrady, Alston, Yao, and Juwan. If it's Jaric, Head, Butler, and whoever, then it'd be better. But we don't even know if CD will try and sign Butler.


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## Demiloy (Nov 4, 2005)

thetennisyao said:


> its good enough that i asked 10 or 20, i don't have time to ask 100 ppl. u r not the only warrior fan, and i don't wanna argue with someone who doesn't know ****.


 If he doesn't know, why don't you just prove him wrong? I agree MightyReds, the Warriors aren't going to give up Murphy for a lazy good-for-nothing like Swift.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

Demiloy said:


> If he doesn't know, why don't you just prove him wrong? I agree MightyReds, the Warriors aren't going to give up Murphy for a lazy good-for-nothing like Swift.


u think this is mathmatic proof? there is no right or wrong answer. i stated my reasons, and it make sense. 

its like the same question as should we trade tmac right now. Its reasonable and unreasonable both ways. 

warriors are rebuilding, i don't see y not. head is averaging like 12 ppg when he is starting.


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## Demiloy (Nov 4, 2005)

> its like the same question as should we trade tmac right now. Its reasonable and unreasonable both ways.


There's no right or wrong answer? Then why did you say he didn't know anything? I mean, come on, if he disagrees with you on a point you yourself say is debatable, then why do you just go and flame him?


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

lol, simply put, a Murphy-Swift deal won't be going down anytime soon.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

thetennisyao said:


> u think this is mathmatic proof? there is no right or wrong answer. i stated my reasons, and it make sense.
> 
> its like the same question as should we trade tmac right now. Its reasonable and unreasonable both ways.
> 
> warriors are rebuilding, i don't see y not. head is averaging like 12 ppg when he is starting.


Your reasons made sense to you, I disagreed and stated my reasons, and I was suddenly a person who 'don't know no masked cursing - YM? Or was it a sign of you losing the argument battle and subsequently losing your cool?

Anyway, this thread is no longer worth me posting & replying. And thanks for standing up for me Demiloy.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

i was juz saying there is a good amount of warrior fans will do this trade. And he said there is no chance. if mullin can sign foyle, fisher and dun with all that money, why can't this deal go throu? this trade can actually benefit them. u see how boris diaw switched to a new system and succeed? i think stro is in the same case.


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## thetennisyao (Mar 10, 2006)

MightyReds2020 said:


> Your reasons made sense to you, I disagreed and stated my reasons, and I was suddenly a person who 'don't know $hit'? Or was it a sign of you losing the argument battle and subsequently losing your cool?
> 
> Anyway, this thread is no longer worth me posting & replying. And thanks for standing up for me Demiloy.


it wasn't from the beginning...


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

It should be easy for you to get JJ Redick, He at #16 of mock draft


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

Ballscientist said:


> It should be easy for you to get JJ Redick, He at #16 of mock draft


Who wants JJ Redick? He's no good.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

Ballscientist said:


> It should be easy for you to get JJ Redick, He at #16 of mock draft


We already have him... except we refer to him as Richie Frahm


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

thetennisyao said:


> i was juz saying there is a good amount of warrior fans will do this trade. And he said there is no chance. if mullin can sign foyle, fisher and dun with all that money, why can't this deal go throu? this trade can actually benefit them. u see how boris diaw switched to a new system and succeed? i think stro is in the same case.


Isn't what they said about Stro going to Houston.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Seed said:


> Isn't what they said about Stro going to Houston.


while i dont have faith in swift anymore, he would be better off on a team like the warriors. houston was a worse fit for him than memphis. its like if diaw had gone to the knicks instead of the suns.


*Go NeTs*


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