# Raptors @ Wizards, Nov. 23



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>

















*Toronto Raptors* (5-6) @ *Washington Wizards* (5-4)
November 23rd, 2004, 7:00 PM EST
TSN






































*Rafer Alston, Vince Carter, Lamond Murray, Chris Bosh, Loren Woods*





































*Gilbert Arenas, Larry Hughes, Anatwan Jamison, Jared Jeffries, Brendan Haywood*


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I'm going to go ahead and predict a big game for Vince in this one. He is way overdue.

If they stick Jamison on Bosh, he'll be contained. Otherwise, Bosh can crush JJ. I'm hoping for the later.

Arenas is a tough assignment for Alston. Gilbert has size and strength and speed on Rafer.

Larry Hughes is averaging almost four steals a game.

Big night for our second unit. Hopefully they can come through again.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

a breakout game of 20 pts?

:woot: :woot: :sour:


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

THis is a very winable game for us, hopefully VC can play a full 40+ mins od consistant basketball for us


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Well considering the fact that Vince wont be booed in this game and he is playing against his carolina buddies in Jamison and Haywood. He should have some fun and a good game out there


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Maybe Vince will play well since he is playing against Antawn, we shall see. 
Does Arenas really have a speed advantage on Rafer? I mean, I know he has a quick first step, but Rafer is pretty fast off and on the ball. 

Should be intresting...


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## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> Maybe Vince will play well since he is playing against Antawn, we shall see.
> Does Arenas really have a speed advantage on Rafer? I mean, I know he has a quick first step, but Rafer is pretty fast off and on the ball.
> 
> Should be intresting...


Arenas is one of the fastest players in the league, rumorded Arenas can run a 4.3 and he declined an option to the Summer Olympics track (rumor)


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

I would like too see Vince and Jamison play together again i dont knwo who post this idea it was something like this

Larry Hughes
Jared Jeffries
Ethan Thomas

for

Vince
Mason JR.
Moiso

Something like that

Arenas
Vince
Jamison
Kwame
Haywood

This is a contender for sure


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I think this should be a fun game to watch. Hopefully I don't have to leave right away...


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Word is Jalen won't start. Murray will take his place.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Word is Jalen won't start. Murray will take his place.


Injuries ????

This could be good for Vince


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

is jalen hurt? why he dressed up in a suit


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## Pejavlade (Jul 10, 2004)

vince left 2nd quater when he ran into hughes shoulder


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## Pejavlade (Jul 10, 2004)

rafer is having a great game 14pts 4-6 3pt fg and 9 dimes:greatjob:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pejavlade</b>!
> vince left 2nd quater when he ran into hughes shoulder


meh, he'll be back. he might need to get his teeth checked afterwards though.

OUCH


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Talk about a lackluster performance. The 3rd quarter woes continue.

Couple of nice dunks by Vince though


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

but for ****'s sake, concentrate at the free throw line!~


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

No Defense + No rebounding =No fast break= no win
Bosh is getting owned tonight showing not too much effort

Most players get on a roll after a big performance in a big win...
Mo and Lammond combined like 2-17 :banghead:


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

What's this? Vince playing in the 4th?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> No Defense + No rebounding =No fast break= no win
> Bosh is getting owned tonight showing not too much effort
> 
> ...


think it could be jet lag?


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Toronto gave this one to Washington tonight with the worst rebounding effort of the year....Please Donyell come back, we have the weakest Frontcourt in the league

2nd, 3rd and 4th chance point opportunities just killing the Raps,


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Wow Vince is sucking it up from the free throw line... but gotta give him credit - at least he's getting there.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *Mr_B !*
> think it could be jet lag?


I wish it were, it least they would have an excuse


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## Gripni (Dec 14, 2003)

Wow, the Raptors didn't do anything good in the third quarter.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Washington 64 rebounds  

total ugliness


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

lmao at the kid dancing on screen cause he knows he's on TV behind Leo & Chuck...


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> Washington 64 rebounds
> 
> total ugliness


more like frustrating :upset:

i was literally shouting at the tv each time the wiz got a second chance opportunity.


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

What is wrong with the 3rd quarter? This team always fails to show up in the 3rd quarter. It's ridiculous..... then they start to play better during the 4th quarter. Where was that during the previous quarter when the game was on the line?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

in addition to being manhandled on the boards, the free throws were also frustrating to watch.

:upset: x


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

oh snap, some of you really need to see/read sam mitchell's post game comments:

- he is PISSED to the max

- is pissed that if players aren't serious to come in and play, then they should just quit. he 'recently' had a talk with a player which he said, and i quote: 
"they know who i'm talking about. if they don't want to compete every night they should just qui' because 'it's embarassing to to the team."

- pissed at the free throws being taken place, and the lack of concentration players take with it

- pissed to see his players have smiles on their face when they're losing. he pointed out in that the 5 wins the raptors had, not once did their oppositions had smiles on their faces.

- pissed to see his players show comaredirie to their opponents as if they were his teammates. i.e. helping their opponents off the floor after having committed a hard foul upon them.

- bottom line, HE WAS PISSED (and pretty scary if i were a reporter)


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I thought Vince might play well tonight. 25/9 is a great performance statistically compared to what else he's done this season. When I saw him writhing around on the floor my heart sank, but it was a different feeling than in years past--I wasn't afraid that he was hurt, I was afraid that our chances of trading him just went out the window. How things change. His shot selection was better, but he cooled-off dramatically after a strong first quarter. There can be no doubt that conditioning is an issue for Vince early this season.

Before everyone rails on about our rebounding tonight, as a team we managed 47 boards. Carter, Bosh and Woods combined for 29 rebounds on their own. The real reason there were so many rebounds tonight, and so many offensive rebounds for the Wizards, was because Washington was jacking shots up like they were on speed. Washington had--count 'em--101 shot attempts tonight, including almost 30 from three-point land. It's no wonder they had 64 rebounds.

That being said, our entire team (including Bosh in case you think I might be failing to single him out) is struggling boxing-out. With all the running we are setting-up for our break too early, and we aren't contesting the shots right to the rim. We are giving-up when a team shoots and expecting it to fall. That is a trend that cannot continue. Bosh and Woods could've had 20 a piece had they dug-in and kept Washington away from the glass.

Lamond and Mo were insufficient in replacing Jalen. They were abysmal from the field. Mo had a couple of nice drives to the net that he finished with wild, sweeping hook shots and chuck-ups. I can't explain those. Lamond shot the ball almost every time he saw half a chance and the rim had a lid on it tonight. I understand keeping Mo as an energy player on the bench, but if this is the kind of play we can expect from Murray in a starting role we are in trouble.

Rafer left it all on the floor tonight. We relied on his scoring, we thrived by his passing, and we expected him to play 46 minutes doing it. 20/13/6 is a great night for him statistically but it belies the amount of pressure our team put on him. He shouldn't be expected to carry our team on his own when times get tough.

Matt Bonner was very useful tonight. Sow and Moiso? Not so much.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

So is Vince to blame for the loss after a 25/9 night, I bet people are going to blame it on the freethrows


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> So is Vince to blame for the loss after a 25/9 night, I bet people are going to blame it on the freethrows


are you just asking for it? we aren't blind enough to not know when vince has a good game. 

but hey if you want to start and turn this into that type of thread, just say so.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hmm lets see, its alright to ignore him when he has a good game but all hell is let loose when he doesnt


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Hmm lets see, its alright to ignore him when he has a good game but all hell is let loose when he doesnt


you have said in the past that who really cares how vince played, the raps still won.

well by double standards, who really cares about how vince played, the raps still lost.

woohoo, vince played great. oh yay. he's finally back to form. he's back to his all-star figures. VINSANITY IS BACK LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. V-I-N-S-A-N-I-T-Y IS BACK...


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> - pissed to see his players show comaredirie to their opponents as if they were his teammates. i.e. helping their opponents off the floor after having committed a hard foul upon them.


I really dont see nothing wrong with that. Better than Pacers Pistons fight


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

^Vince has bad game we win
Vince has good game we lose

interesting coerelation there...
I hope VC can keep up these stats for maybe a week or two, even if we lose it could be the best thing for the future of the team


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> I really dont see nothing wrong with that. Better than Pacers Pistons fight


he wants his players to REALLY take the game seriously. be Duncan-esque in that off the floor, you can be friends with your opponents, but on the floor, you're total enemies

all in part to have that competitive edge that he things his missing.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Before everyone rails on about our rebounding tonight, as a team we managed 47 boards. Carter, Bosh and Woods combined for 29 rebounds on their own. The real reason there were so many rebounds tonight, and so many offensive rebounds for the Wizards, was because Washington was jacking shots up like they were on speed. Washington had--count 'em--101 shot attempts tonight, including almost 30 from three-point land. It's no wonder they had 64 rebounds.


Probably but i think theres more chances to get a defensive re, than a offensive reb. so we should take most of those O. R. so that mean our frontcourt was weak getting D. REB.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol yes I did say those statements, but how does that answer my question about who do we blame for this game, its the norm around here to have a Vince roast after every game, good or bad


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> he wants his players to REALLY take the game seriously. be Duncan-esque in that off the floor, you can be friends with your opponents, but on the floor, you're total enemies
> ...


You cant take the game seriously without become an Artest. (Dirty player). You dont show afraid if you help the opponet to get up..


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

then someone explain to me how washing ton was able to get 18 offensive boards in the first half, but only 8 in the second half?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Before everyone rails on about our rebounding tonight, as a team we managed 47 boards. Carter, Bosh and Woods combined for 29 rebounds on their own. The real reason there were so many rebounds tonight, and so many offensive rebounds for the Wizards, was because Washington was jacking shots up like they were on speed. Washington had--count 'em--101 shot attempts tonight, including almost 30 from three-point land. It's no wonder they had 64 rebounds.


You can't justify a rebounding margin of 17. 

Why did the Wiz have 101 shot attempts- because they had 25 offensive rebounds.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> you have said in the past that who really cares how vince played, the raps still won.
> ...


The thing is when the we Lose all the haters come to attack Vince things like he's soft and BS like that and if the Raptors Win all the haters look the Vince's bad side.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Norma Wick said it best. they need a proverbial gun on their head in order to intensify them.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Lol yes I did say those statements, but how does that answer my question about who do we blame for this game, its the norm around here to have a Vince roast after every game, good or bad


lol hes ducking you


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> Norma Wick said it best. they need a proverbial gun on their head in order to intensify them.


Or Charles Oakley.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> The thing is when the we Lose all the haters come to attack Vince things like he's soft and BS like that and if the Raptors Win all the haters look the Vince's bad side.


then maybe you can finally stop with the hater bull because everyone knows vince played a great game.

but you can not ignore a 2/9, a 5/15, 3/8 performances in losing or winning causes. especially when they're coming form your franchise player.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Lol yes I did say those statements, but how does that answer my question about who do we blame for this game, its the norm around here to have a Vince roast after every game, good or bad


are you ****en serious?

how do you ignore single digit points from vince while he's shooting below 40%?

how do you ignore him not showing full effort when he's capable of it in games where the scores are so close?

how do you ignore vince after the team ups their intensity and wins without their franchise player?

how do you ignore the team playing better with vince off the floor?

how do you ignore the mistrust mitchell has for vince, the frachise palyer?

how do you ignore vince for losing passion for the game?

how do you ignore vince not utlizing his talents to have average games of his capabilities?

now you ask me, how do i ignore vince having a good game through a loss?

HELLO, the raptors still lose. vince can score 50 pts in a losing cause and it still wouldn't matter ****, cuz they still lose.

you're leaning so much closer to my IL if you're continue to spew this bull.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I wont be suprised if he has another bad game, its not fun playing home when your fans are against ya. On a side note, the raps need a backup pg Rafer is playing way too much minutes


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> then maybe you can finally stop with the hater bull because everyone knows vince played a great game.
> ...


My way of think is:

If the Raptors Lose was because of the team
If the Raptors Win was because of the team...
Theres not "We should blame him or them etc"
Maybe if we win a player can "carry" the team but the team should get the credit


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> My way of think is:
> ...


**** that bull**** mentality and how about watching the game. carter and rose were in no part in the win with the spurs and jazz.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Notice that our coach never takes the blame for our losses


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> I wont be suprised if he has another bad game, its not fun playing home when your fans are against ya


I can see it now, right after Vince gets traded..."Vince played like garbage because the fans were against him"...

The sad thing is, the people that say it will truely believe it.

BTW, the fans are displeased with him BECAUSE of the way he has played. So in reality, it is Vince who is responsible for the negative reaction he is receiving from fans.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Notice that our coach never takes the blame for our losses


and why would he? the man is doing a great job so far...


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> **** that bull**** mentality and how about watching the game. carter and rose were in no part in the win with the spurs and jazz.


So according to your Logic Vince won the Raptors blazers game by himself because he score the last second shot ?


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_2003</b>!
> 
> 
> and why would he? the man is doing a great job so far...


Exactly. You put just about any other rookie coach in his situation and we'd have one or two wins right now, if that.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> So according to your Logic Vince won the Raptors blazers game by himself because he score the last second shot ?


ah yes, let's give more credit to vince for getting that lucky shot in and altogether forgetting about the bench's huge impact that gave vince the chance to be in that position in the first place.

[strike]it's a shame that speedy is the only 1 of 3 decent mods on this board. :nonono:[/strike]


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> ah yes, let's give more credit to vince for getting that lucky shot in and altogether forgetting about the bench's huge impact that gave vince the chance to be in that position in the first place.


lucky? your acting like vince hasen't done it before lol u stay on that hateraide man :laugh:


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Notice that our coach never takes the blame for our losses


Our third-quarter woes fall on his shoulders. We should be coming out of the break focused, not lazy. And putting our starting unit back on the floor hasn't helped us recently.

Otherwise, it's obvious when the team is doing what Sam wants and when they aren't. A "culture of losing" is difficult to shake and if anyone thought we would cruise to fourty five wins this year, think again. No freebies.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> it's a shame that speedy is the only 1 of 3 decent mods on this board. :nonono:


You guys <i>could</i> lobby for my re-instatement... :angel:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

"hmm...the raptors lost...OMG, VINCE HAD A GOOD GAME. I'M SO HAPPY TEE HEE." - vince defenders

and they actually have the nerve to look down on me. i don't know if it's more sad or funny.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> You can't justify a rebounding margin of 17.
> 
> Why did the Wiz have 101 shot attempts- because they had 25 offensive rebounds.


You're right, I can't justify that margin. I won't try to. I'm just saying that Washington's rebounding numbers were inflated due to poor, frenzied shooting.

The discrepancy is still glaring. It's an ongoing issue of concern. Not having a good centre is partially to blame, but clearly the issue is inconsistent boxing-out at every position.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> ah yes, let's give more credit to vince for getting that lucky shot in and altogether forgetting about the bench's huge impact that gave vince the chance to be in that position in the first place.
> ...


well first of all how i told you if the Raps Win is because the team and not because of one player and in the end i dont care what you think of me as a mod I try my best. if you are not agree with my opinions perfect i Will support Vince because he's a Raptor like i would support any other Raptor...


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> "hmm...the raptors lost...OMG, VINCE HAD A GOOD GAME. I'M SO HAPPY TEE HEE." - vince defenders
> 
> and they actually have the nerve to look down on me. i don't know if it's more sad or funny.


"hmm...the raptors won...OMG, VINCE HAD A an awful GAME. He sucks he dont have nothing to do with the victory" - vince haters


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> it's a shame that speedy is the only 1 of 3 decent mods on this board. :nonono


ok this is a new low after a loss - let's blame the mods LOL

:banana: :banana:


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> ok this is a new low after a loss - let's blame the mods LOL
> ...


Its easy


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Man, this thread is a disaster...

Vince had a great game, and it seems like some of you are implying that they lost because of that, and they win because he had a bad game. If you actually watch the game its really not like that. The bench who played terrific all up until now, was atrocious tonight. They got the chances they ussualy get, but they just couldn't come through. Vince and Rafer were really the only ones to have it. I admire MoPete's effort tonight, as when he realized he didn't have the shooting touch he started to take it inside (VINCE!). But really there was nobody else.

Tonight the front court was absolutely terrible getting rebounds from Haywood and Jamison. There were a lot of ******* turnovers late. That 3rd quarter was a wreck. But the big key to this game was the FREAK'N FREETHROWS! FREEEEEE-THROWS. They're free, you should be making 90% of them! I hope Mitchell takes each individual player aside at practice and has them shoot 500 FT's each. That is the most dispicable Freethrow shooting exhibition I've ever seen. They missed freak'n 6 in a row. WTF?! I could shoot a better % than them if I shot at the hoop on the other side of the court (ok a little bit of exaduration there). Had the free throws fallen better tonight, we would have been right in the game to keep it closer and possibley pull out a victory. But all those misses accounted for the game not even being closer than 5 points down the stretch.

To me, the reason Toronto has lost about 4 of their 7 games so far is from a lack of offensive coordination. Sam Mitchell is a great coach, don't get me wrong. He's willing to go out on a limb and it usually pays off. But he needs to create some freak'n offensive set plays. The offense is so dissorganized every time down the court, I can't figure out how they even have 5 wins so far. They have the talent and they have the right chemistry. If they can get some appreciative fans and some offensive plays then I think Toronto will easily become a 50+ win team this season. I'll chalk this one up as Mitchells innexperience so he probably hasn't created many yet. But he better get the ball rolling before he wants to start getting pissed at his players for being discombodulated.

[/rant]


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

I Dont Care If They Lose, As Long As Rafer Alston Has A Good Game
3 Double Doubles In A Row.. That's Good

20 Points, 13 Assists.. What Else U Want?


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

that was a tough loss- very tough to watch. i'm not going to ever tell sam mitchell what to do, i think he's doing a relatively strong job to this point, but while our zone defense was causing the wizards to throw up some awful jump shots, it was also causing our defensive rebounding to be... well... non-existent. zone defense, in my experience, relies on communication to be effective, and the raptors have suffered communication breakdowns as a habit over the past few years.

in a word, tonight was an embarrassment. it's too bad.

i think chris bosh, for one, may have cost the team dearly tonight- be it only on the glass. he has so much to learn (imo) about finding his man, laying the body and going up with confidence to pull down the ball. he may have had a "double-double" (and i'm sure that's going to make the papers tomorrow) but he should've had 20 rebounds tonight- not 10. he played most of the first half with the wizards shooting at a 29% clip, and he went to the locker room with two boards- *two*. i didn't think loren woods was doing an incredible rebounding job either, but he went to the locker room at the half with six rebounds- *six*. that says more about what chris wasn't doing (imo) than it says about what loren *was* doing.

our guards were, again, leaking out early- and well into the third quarter. if i were on the coaching staff i would've told everybody to crash the defensive glass and forget about the break. i mean, how many times do you have to be burned before you change your strategy? vince, rafer, mo... running away from the ball as if they were on another planet, oblivious to the fact that the wizards had more offensive rebounds in the first half than we did _defensive_ rebounds. in this respect, i believe sam was outcoached tonight. he's got to learn more (and then teach his players) since this wasn't the first game that saw the raptors get schooled on the boards.

i also think vince carter had a relatively poor game. he may have scored 25 points (and that'll surely make the papers, as well) but he was not involved- and that only bothers me because there were points in the game that _cried_ for him to *get* involved. they were _vince carter moments_ (for lack of a better term), and i think he's done a solid job identifying those moments to this point in the season, but not tonight.

what bothered me even more was the rebirth of the "old" vince carter after he was shouldered by hughes in the second Q. he was _floored_ like the old vince (02/03 vince, 03/04 vince), and that almost had me in tears. i had been wondering if that vince carter had left (i was hoping he had) all year, and now realize he hasn't. it just took him awhile to come around- it only took a couple of small injuries (marshall, rose- see below) before he "remembered" how to get hurt again. 

as a collective, we weren't jacking up jump shots like usual but we were awfully confused- both offensively and defensively. while skip had a fantastic assists:turnover ratio (13:1), i would have to blame him (if i had to blame anyone) for not getting the team to read from the same page.

the free throw shooting was unfortunate- and most of those came while washington was in the penalty. chuck and leo were again taking statistics out of context by praising the raptors for "getting to the line, playing aggressively" in the second half, since i don't believe they were playing any more "aggressively" than they were simply getting washington to commit foolish fouls on the boards. it bothers me quite a bit that some people prematurely resort to statistics to imply conclusions, and chuck & leo are often guilty parties to that social crime (as they were tonight). aggressive? washington was in the _penalty_.

it was just a tough game from every angle. it even bothers me that jalen (one of my favourite raptors) decided to sit out- i mean, is there any doubt that he'll play tomorrow? if he was going to make the trip (and hoffa didn't), he should've committed himself to play before he left. i think his experience (in marshall's absence) would've probably normalized some of our questionable decisions tonight, would've likely given us the fire we were lacking, and may have ultimately had an effect on the outcome of the game. 

as i think about it, i can't find one raptor to commend for their play tonight. i think the team played downright awful from top to bottom- although that might not necessarily be evident from the boxscore. vince, bosh, bonner, murray, mo, rafer, moiso, mitchell... everyone. the injuries might also begin to mount soon, and it'll have less to do with pain or injury than it'll have to do with habit.

feels like last year.

peace


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> ah yes, let's give more credit to vince for getting that lucky shot in and altogether forgetting about the bench's huge impact that gave vince the chance to be in that position in the first place.
> ...


yeah, so Chalz sux as well? No, not starting anything but to make things clear. And where the hell is Goku? To busy in transforming Super Sayan 1,2,3,4?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> I wont be suprised if he has another bad game, its not fun playing home when your fans are against ya. On a side note, the raps need a backup pg Rafer is playing way too much minutes


Yes I am worried as well, he's been playing fantastic so far this season, but I'm worried that he's going to start to cool down if he continues to play this much. 
45 minutes? 
Milt has to step up.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Our first and third quarters are horrible, VC stepped up in the first quarter by having what? 11 points? Pretty good for VC standards this season, but he only averaged 3 points per quarter the rest of the way. 

I don't really think that this is a fatigue issue, although I don't think VC one of the fittest players in the league, I think he came out and tried to prove himself to the fans, to his teammates and to his coach that he can still play, but after his amazing first quarter, he thought he didn't have anything to prove anymore.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

FT's and rebounds lost us the game for the first 3 quarters. 

But somehow we came back again and had a real chance to win.

Murray had a very rough game. Didn't rebound well and couldn't buy a bucket. And they were good looks, many from within the paint. Same for MoP who put up 2 or 3 airballs on layup attempts. Their poor shooting numbers really hurt.

Bosh is playing very weak inside. He isn't banging, boxing out, or going after the ball hard on the boards. Not until the fourth Q.

Rafer and VC carried the offense in the first Q.

I watched that play where VC went down over and over and just did not see any contact with VC's head. It looked like shoulder to shoulder contact. I swear VC's body is wired wrong.

About Vince having a 'great' game.

He made a grand total of 6 shots in the final 3 quarters of play and was on the court for the entire third Q as the Wiz beat us by 16 points.

The second unit takes a 19 point deficit and cuts it to 10. VC comes back in at that point and the lead is cut to 6. Then he makes a HUGE turnover (not on the stat sheet??). He gets the D rebound and throws it right to a Wiz player as he tries to get it to Skip to start the break. Wiz score and build the lead right back up to 13. Game over. We end up down by more than when VC came in.

VC shot the ball well from outside. Some were a little closer than usual but basically still just jumpshooting VC for most of the game.

I guess the fact that some went in for a change is cause for huge celebration with the VC worshippers.

Good stat line. Didn't show up in the third Q when the game was decided. Give him a minus 16 in the quarter. Big turnover late in the game to end our run. Is that a great game?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

> Our first and third quarters are horrible, VC stepped up in the first quarter by having what? 11 points? Pretty good for VC standards this season, but he only averaged 3 points per quarter the rest of the way.


wouldnt that of left him with 20 points?

how can we beat the *spurs* and lose to the *wiz* this is crazy we need to start winning consistently or we wont make the playoffs and even if we do we'll end up as 8th or 7th seeds so we wont make it past the heat or pistons!

i dont care how VC played the GMs will be impressed with his statline and if anything it will help get more bak in return for him.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> yeah, so Chalz sux as well?


No he is not saying that - I think we are all clear here I am the opposite of sux. But I make a darn good punching bag when things go bad - I am the mod they love to hate.

 

peace


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> Our first and third quarters are horrible, VC stepped up in the first quarter by having what? 11 points? Pretty good for VC standards this season


Prettu good for nay NBA player


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