# Rumor: Portland in on Iverson Deal



## BIG Q

A mod on another Portland board posted this and I am copying here to see if anyone here saw this. I hope this is not against the rules, if so please delete or make it fit this boards rules. Thanks.

Was just watching Sportscenter and Ric Bucher said that he feels that Denver is the front runner for Iverson and that he's hearing a three way deal in which (bare with my, I wasn't totally paying attention) Magloire goes to Philly, Nene to Portland, and JR Smith to Philly. 

I played around with the trade checker and was able to get something. I'd think that if we don't have any Iverson news by the 15th that Portland may be in on it (just my opinion): 

Portland Trades: 

Jamaal Magloire (expiring) 

Portland Receives: 
Nene 

Denver Trades: 
Nene (expiring) 
Joe Smith (expiring) 
JR Smith 
First Round Pick in '07 

Denver Receives: 
Allen Iverson 

Philly Trades: 
Allen Iverson 

Philly Receives: 
Jamaal Magloire (expiring) 
Joe Smith (expiring) 
JR Smith 
'07 First Round Pick


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## Blazer Freak

I don't think that will happen. Denver seems pretty happy with JR Smith's scoring, and they are winning games. I don't think they mess that up.


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## Dan

Nene is a tad bit over-paid, and it clogs up our middle more (Joel, Nene, LaMarcus and Zach) but damn, we make out like bandits.


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## Trader Ed

Nene is a talent
Nene is intriguing

but his contract is not good $ wise

A Carmello / AI duo would be tough to match

a Magloire for Nene trade opens up further trade possibilities if Nene does not cut it.


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## RedsDrunk

I'm an Ai fan but don't you think Denver is giving up a little too much there with iverson's value being so low due to the circumstances surrounding his trade situation? I don't see it happening, but I'd be happy if it did.


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## dudleysghost

I'm not a fan of this idea. Nene can play, or at least when I scan my distant memory to the last time I saw him play, it seemed like he could, but his contract is huge. It's unlikely Paul Allen will spend over the lux tax threshold, so that salary addition really limits the team's roster flexibility for the next couple years. We'd be over the threshold for the next two years, meaning no MLE free agent signings, if Allen even approved it at all.


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## dkap

If that trade is on the table, you do it in an instant. Even if Nene doesn't fit, even if his health is in question, he's got a lot more value in additional trades than Magloire does.

Dan


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## Blazer Ringbearer

dudleysghost said:


> I'm not a fan of this idea. Nene can play, or at least when I scan my distant memory to the last time I saw him play, it seemed like he could, but his contract is huge. It's unlikely Paul Allen will spend over the lux tax threshold, so that salary addition really limits the team's roster flexibility for the next couple years.


His contract isn't actually that bad for a capable big man... it's essentially $10M per year. It goes on a while, but he's young. Unless he got severely hurt or something, it's very tradeable in the future.

I'd do it. He's a much bigger asset than Magloire. It's a steal really, even more so than Blake and change for Magloire.


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## dudleysghost

Blazer Ringbearer said:


> His contract isn't actually that bad for a capable big man... it's essentially $10M per year. It goes on a while, but he's young. Unless he got severely hurt or something, it's very tradeable in the future.
> 
> I'd do it. He's a much bigger asset than Magloire. It's a steal really, even more so than Blake and change for Magloire.


It's $12 million a year, and he's already be severely hurt (torn knee ligaments), from which he apparently hasn't yet recovered. If this trade does occur, it means that Philadelphia would rather have an expiring contract than him, despite it being a supposed steal. That, and we probably can't sign MLE free agents for the next two years because we're too close to the tax threshold.

Why wouldn't Denver just add Andre Miller to the deal and send him to Philadelphia instead of Nene to PDX? Surely Philly will need a PG, and he and Iverson can't possibly coexist on the same team. It means that Denver also doesn't think Nene is worth the money they just signed him to, because they'd rather take the cap relief than keep him.

This does remind me of the Magloire trade. It's a big name that we supposedly get for free, who turns out to be way less valuable than we expected. I could be wrong, maybe Nene is just about to come back after a long hiatus and blow up enough to justify his contract, but that makes one wonder, why does Denver want to dump him?


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## MAS RipCity

hmm I dislike Magloire but is Nene's deal really that bad? He does hold a lot more value then Magloire down the line as well. He'd still be a nice backup for Zach with LMA and Przy battling out at center...depending on his deal...I'd do it.


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## gatorpops

Are you guys sure that Nene is not OK and Playing? I'm almost certain I saw him a game a couple of nights ago and he looked good.

gatopops


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## Schilly

Nene has only played 6 games this year and is getting 6ppg and 4rpg in 16mpg...He's about the Same size as Magloire, 6'11" 270lbs, but much more talent and a lot yonger at 24.

DO it yesterday if it's there...Heck throw in Dickau.


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## dudleysghost

MAS RipCity said:


> hmm I dislike Magloire but is Nene's deal really that bad? He does hold a lot more value then Magloire down the line as well. He'd still be a nice backup for Zach with LMA and Przy battling out at center...depending on his deal...I'd do it.


Nene's deal is 5 years and $60 million. The question isn't if he's good enough to be better than Magloire, the question is if he is good enough to justify that very large financial commitment. I have my doubts as to whether he would be, or whether we'd be able to move him later.


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## MAS RipCity

ugh 12 mill per...no thanks..lets just let Mags walk


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## Yega1979

Why would we want Nene? What does he bring that Joel does not? 

Aren't the blazers tired of trading for under-achieving players with massive contracts yet?? If we traded for Nene, we'd have like 24 million invested just in our backup centers!


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## deanwoof

not a fan of this proposal cuz of nene. while it's nice to get something out of it, that contract is just ugleeeee


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## GOD

To take on a contract like this for a player who has been very hurt does not jive with me. It seems like a miles type situation except that miles is also a pest but with a smaller contract.

Although I would like to have Nene, I just don't think he is worth that contract. For this trade to happen, my guess is something else like a pick would need to be added. 

In the end, I just don;t see the Blazers as needed in this deal.


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## BIG Q

Isn't Nene BYC?


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## Schilly

ANyone else thik that a deal like this could spell THE END of Z-bo as a Blazer? I mean seriously if Portlad were to accept would they be willing to have 2 PF's making 12mil plus a season...and still have Aldridge?


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## BIG Q

Before I thought of the BYC thing for Nene, I was thinking if Portland did this that they might have a deal going with Zach to possibly CHI or NJ. Or possibly flipping Nene to one of them. The BYC is what makes this all doubtful to me.


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## GOD

Schilly said:


> ANyone else thik that a deal like this could spell THE END of Z-bo as a Blazer? I mean seriously if Portlad were to accept would they be willing to have 2 PF's making 12mil plus a season...and still have Aldridge?


If there is something to this rumor, then that makes a lot of sense. 

Jack/Roy/Sergio
Roy/Webster/Dixon
Whoever Zach was traded for/Outlaw/Webster
Nene/Aldridge/Outlaw
Joel/Nene/Aldridge/Raef

I don't like it. but it does seem possible.


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## Schilly

The size of any deal involvoing Iverson makes the BYC aspect of Nene completely irrelevant.Iverson for Nene and Andre Miller works as the deal is large enough to absorb the BYC difference.


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## Schilly

Nate McVillain said:


> If there is something to this rumor, then that makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Jack/Roy/Sergio
> Roy/Webster/Dixon
> Whoever Zach was traded for/Outlaw/Webster
> Nene/Aldridge/Outlaw
> Joel/Nene/Aldridge/Raef
> 
> I don't like it. but it does seem possible.


The thing that could be very intersting is the Lamarcus/Nene Dynamic. They are both PF/C players, but totally different kind of players, the kinda that would compliment each other quite nicely on the floor at the same time.


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## Schilly

Try this on...

Denver Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Joe Smith
J.R. Smith
Nene Hilario
Incoming
Allen Iverson


Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Allen Iverson
Kyle Korver

Incoming
Joe Smith
J.R. Smith
Zach Randolph


Portland Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Zach Randolph

Incoming
Nene Hilario
Kyle Korver


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## ryanjend22

denver would be agreat place for AI...him and melo...game over.


from our standpoint, magloire or nene, doesnt matter to me. doesnt change us any IMO.


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## BIG Q

Schilly said:


> The size of any deal involvoing Iverson makes the BYC aspect of Nene completely irrelevant.Iverson for Nene and Andre Miller works as the deal is large enough to absorb the BYC difference.


In that case then, if this has legs, it would most likely signal Zach to Chicago. PJ would be a great tutor for Aldridge, is an expiring and we would get one of the two sf's from them and hopefully the pick. 

I do hope this is the way we go. I more than believe that had Roy been healthy this whole time we would be in a playoff spot. Management is probably realizing that we will be out of the running for any of the major prospects in this up coming draft unless we get majorly lucky in the lotto.


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## Schilly

I think Zach to NJ for Richard Jefferson is more likely than Chicago. The Bulls have been playing pretty well of plate and I think they are feeling pretty confident that they don't need to change yet.


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## BIG Q

Schilly said:


> I think Zach to NJ for Richard Jefferson is more likely than Chicago. The Bulls have been playing pretty well of plate and I think they are feeling pretty confident that they don't need to change yet.


You are probably right, but I would expect a unprotected 2007 FRDP as well. Zach has much higher value than Jefferson the way I see it. NJ needs Zach more than we need Jefferson the way I see it.


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## Schilly

I doubt unprotected. I don't think Zach is terribly more valuable. Jefferson pre-Carter era was putting up Zachish typoe numbers (from a SF less boards more assists) and is a better defender. I could see a protected 1st rounder, which wouldn't matter as NJ in the East with Carter, Kidd and Zach is a playoff team.


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## GOD

Schilly said:


> Try this on...
> 
> Denver Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Joe Smith
> J.R. Smith
> Nene Hilario
> Incoming
> Allen Iverson
> 
> 
> Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Allen Iverson
> Kyle Korver
> 
> Incoming
> Joe Smith
> J.R. Smith
> Zach Randolph
> 
> 
> Portland Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Zach Randolph
> 
> Incoming
> Nene Hilario
> Kyle Korver


That is a nasty trade. I would throw a fit if that happened.


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## Samuel

Do we really want Nene? Look at his contract: blech!


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## alext42083

Schilly said:


> Try this on...
> 
> Denver Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Joe Smith
> J.R. Smith
> Nene Hilario
> Incoming
> Allen Iverson
> 
> 
> Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Allen Iverson
> Kyle Korver
> 
> Incoming
> Joe Smith
> J.R. Smith
> Zach Randolph
> 
> 
> Portland Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Zach Randolph
> 
> Incoming
> Nene Hilario
> Kyle Korver


Man.. if Philly were to get two young talents -- JR Smith and Zach -- for basically AI, they would do that in a heartbeat for sure.
I'm a big Korver fan, that guy can just light it up like I hope Webster can someday. Nene on the other hand.... I could do without.


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## dudleysghost

Schilly said:


> Try this on...
> 
> Denver Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Joe Smith
> J.R. Smith
> Nene Hilario
> Incoming
> Allen Iverson
> 
> 
> Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Allen Iverson
> Kyle Korver
> 
> Incoming
> Joe Smith
> J.R. Smith
> Zach Randolph
> 
> 
> Portland Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> Zach Randolph
> 
> Incoming
> Nene Hilario
> Kyle Korver


Something strange is going on here. ESPN trade machine lists Nene's salary as 8 mil, and hoopshype has it at 10 mil. Either way, with the BYC rules he couts as half that amount of outgoing salary for Denver, and they are taking back too much from Iverson's salary for it to match. ESPN lists that as $17.184 mil, Hoopshype lists it at $18.281.

If ESPN's numbers are right, then the outgoing Denver salary has to add up to 13.66 mil, counting Nene as only half of his actual salary. If hoopshype's number is right, then it has to add up to $14.545 mil.

Assuming that one of those sets of numbers is right in all cases, then neither Nene + Miller nor Nene + Smith + Smith works for Denver. They are both short by about a million, so something has to be added. Adding JR Smith to the first deal, or substituting Boykins for Smith in the second deal I think makes the numbers work.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73


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## Verro

Just coming off ACL surgery Nene is definitely a buy low asset, with no small amount of risk considering his contract. But then again this summer Zach was in a very similar situation and if another team had traded for him at that time, they might have gotten a real value. I consider our current management to be good judges of talent (particularly KP), if they think he'll develop into a player worthy of that contract I'd be in favor of the deal.


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## mediocre man

If the Blazers do indeed get Nene for Magloire we win talent wise. Nut like most everyone has said his contract is long, and he's had some serious injuries. I'm also not sure what to make of Randolph, Nene, Aldridge, LaFrentz, Joel, Travis. That's a lot of 4-5 guys. It makes a lot of sense if the Blazers decide his knees are healthy and they trade Zach for player like Richard Jefferson or Deng, or even end up with JR Smith in the deal. 

Jack
Roy
Jefferson/Deng/Smith
Aldridge
Nene

Joel
Sergio
Webster
Outlaw
Dixon (Unless he's traded oh please, oh please)

That's a nice rotation that will play both offense and defense well.


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## mediocre man

Yega1979 said:


> Why would we want Nene? What does he bring that Joel does not?
> 
> Aren't the blazers tired of trading for under-achieving players with massive contracts yet?? If we traded for Nene, we'd have like 24 million invested just in our backup centers!



Do you mean bsides more athleticism, better shooting, better FT shooting, more scoring, more steals and would actually force the defense to guard him when he's on the floor?


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## mediocre man

How about this idea. I honestly think Philly would do it, and I think Portland should too. 

Magloire
Webster
Unprotected 1st round pick this year

Newly aquire Nene
Iggy

They want cap space and draft picks, and this way they get 8.3 mil and a lottery pick in a great draft

We get a line up of 

Jack
Roy
Iggy
Zach
Aldridge (or Joel until Nate comes to his senses)

That's a pretty darn good team


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## Utherhimo

they can have denvers draft pick not ours


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## mediocre man

Utherhimo said:


> they can have denvers draft pick not ours



Iggy is worth the pick. Heck, we could end up picking 10th or so and you never know what you are going to get. We already know Iggy is a very good SF


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## Samuel

mediocre man said:


> How about this idea. I honestly think Philly would do it, and I think Portland should too.
> 
> Magloire
> Webster
> Unprotected 1st round pick this year


Not worth it.

Portland has had opportunities in the last few years to upgrade, but they're going with a youth movement, and that movement isn't done yet.


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## mediocre man

Samuel said:


> Not worth it.
> 
> Portland has had opportunities in the last few years to upgrade, but they're going with a youth movement, and that movement isn't done yet.


It's not like Iguodala is old (23). He's averaging 14.5 pts, 6.3 rbs, 4.5 asts and shooting .473 from the field he also shoots .341 from 3 and .802 from the line. He's exactly the kind of player we should want to add to our team. Oh by the way he's also known as a pretty good defender.


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## barfo

Samuel said:


> Portland has had opportunities in the last few years to upgrade, but they're going with a youth movement, and that movement isn't done yet.


Well, at least we've got the Oregonian to read while we are sitting here completing our movement.

Andre isn't that old, not yet 23. I think he still qualifies as youth.

barfo


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## Samuel

barfo said:


> Well, at least we've got the Oregonian to read while we are sitting here completing our movement.
> 
> Andre isn't that old, not yet 23. I think he still qualifies as youth.
> 
> barfo


Yeah but you're giving up a lottery pick in a strong draft and your former #6 pick who is not yet conclusively bad.

That's a bit stiff for my blood.


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## GOD

mediocre man said:


> How about this idea. I honestly think Philly would do it, and I think Portland should too.
> 
> Magloire
> Webster
> Unprotected 1st round pick this year
> 
> Newly aquire Nene
> Iggy
> 
> They want cap space and draft picks, and this way they get 8.3 mil and a lottery pick in a great draft
> 
> We get a line up of
> 
> Jack
> Roy
> Iggy
> Zach
> Aldridge (or Joel until Nate comes to his senses)
> 
> That's a pretty darn good team


I like it but I dont think 6ers would want to take on Zach while they still have because Webber because you then have two very highly paid players at the same position, when both players are pretty much mono-positional players. Neither play Center or Small Forward very well. 

But from the Blazers standpoint, Iggy would rock, especially in combo with Aldridge. they would really complement eachother.

Edit - misread the trade, I like it, I thought Zach was involved. my bad.

Edit again - Wow, I really like tht! good trade for both clubs. Fair and serves both sides goals. The Blazers would really have a solid rotation.


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## Yega1979

mediocre man said:


> Do you mean bsides more athleticism, better shooting, better FT shooting, more scoring, more steals and would actually force the defense to guard him when he's on the floor?



I mean anything, I haven't seen Nene play much. But looking at their stats, Joel has more blocks and rebounds than Nene in less minutes per game, FT shooting and scoring are nothing to write home about.

Jamal Magaworthless is putting up similar numbers to Nene, and who would you rather have on the floor, Joel or Jamal?


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## mediocre man

Yega1979 said:


> I mean anything, I haven't seen Nene play much. But looking at their stats, Joel has more blocks and rebounds than Nene in less minutes per game, FT shooting and scoring are nothing to write home about.
> 
> Jamal Magaworthless is putting up similar numbers to Nene, and who would you rather have on the floor, Joel or Jamal?



Probably not the best question to ask me since I think Joel was a stupid signing this off season. I'd rather have Aldridge on the floor so he can learn the ins and outs of the game quicker.


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## Trader Ed

A couple of BIG IF's
We get Nene while involved in a AI deal. this allows us to pull the trigger on a Randolph to NJ for Jefferson and a 1st round pick or our fave Chicago deal... Brown and Deng

take a look at these options with those in mind

ROSTER with Denver and Chicago trade

PG Jack, Rogriguez, (Roy)
SG Roy, Webster, Dixon, Graham
SF Deng, Outlaw, Udoka, Miles
PF Nene or Aldridge, Brown
C Aldridge or Nene, Przybilla, LeFrentz


OR

ROSTER with Denver and NJ trade

PG Jack, Rogriguez, (Roy)
SG Roy, Webster, Dixon, Graham
SF Jefferson, Outlaw, Udoka, Miles
PF Nene or Aldridge, (LeFrentz)
C Aldridge or Nene, Przybilla, LeFrentz



personally I prefer the Chicago trade version


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## Trader Ed

mediocre man said:


> How about this idea. I honestly think Philly would do it, and I think Portland should too.
> 
> Magloire
> Webster
> Unprotected 1st round pick this year
> 
> Newly aquire Nene
> Iggy
> 
> They want cap space and draft picks, and this way they get 8.3 mil and a lottery pick in a great draft
> 
> We get a line up of
> 
> Jack
> Roy
> Iggy
> Zach
> Aldridge (or Joel until Nate comes to his senses)
> 
> That's a pretty darn good team


MM... I am not following this. Is it part of the Ai trade idea... Please do an ESPN trade checker so I can follow it. I am a bit dense this morning.

Like the result of course. But I do not want to give up Webster. He is a much better perimeter shooter than Iggy right now even after only 1.25 years in the league



EDIT: I found your proposal in the Philly forum

I still would not deal Webster


mediocre man said:


> How about a 3 way where Philly gets
> 
> Magloire
> Webster
> Denver first round pick
> Portland unprotected first round pick
> 
> Denver gets
> 
> Iverson
> 
> Portland gets
> 
> Iguodala
> Nene


Webster may have more upside than Iggy


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## hasoos

I am not really a fan of Iguodala. He is undersized, and I believe much like Bonzi Wells, his Outside shooting is more prone to "Streaks" then consistency, and I feel that a teams success is much better if based on a consistency rather then streakyness. He also tends to turn over the ball, and is undersized for a small forward. I also am not ready to give up on Webster after he has scored pretty well in 2 out of the last 3 games, and is a superior outside shooter.


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## RedHot&Rolling

Trader Bob said:


> A couple of BIG IF's
> We get Nene while involved in a AI deal. this allows us to pull the trigger on a Randolph to NJ for Jefferson and a 1st round pick or our fave Chicago deal... Brown and Deng
> 
> take a look at these options with those in mind
> 
> ROSTER with Denver and Chicago trade
> 
> PG Jack, Rogriguez, (Roy)
> SG Roy, Webster, Dixon, Graham
> SF Deng, Outlaw, Udoka, Miles
> PF Nene or Aldridge, Brown
> C Aldridge or Nene, Przybilla, LeFrentz
> 
> 
> OR
> 
> ROSTER with Denver and NJ trade
> 
> PG Jack, Rogriguez, (Roy)
> SG Roy, Webster, Dixon, Graham
> SF Jefferson, Outlaw, Udoka, Miles
> PF Nene or Aldridge, (LeFrentz)
> C Aldridge or Nene, Przybilla, LeFrentz
> 
> 
> 
> personally I prefer the Chicago trade version


Either version would be so SWEET!!


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## ProudBFan

Just had a (scary) thought:

You don't really believe Patterson flew all the way to Philly just to give Darnell his walking papers, do you?

PBF


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## Trader Ed

ProudBFan said:


> Just had a (scary) thought:
> 
> You don't really believe Patterson flew all the way to Philly just to give Darnell his walking papers, do you?
> 
> PBF



yes.. I do.. pretty much

it was said on CS last night that he is continuing on to Memphis though.

I am sure he met with Billy King for the usual GM dialogue of we will give you this and that if you give me what I want... but I doubt we are in the AI sweepstakes



all said and done... Ai goes to GS for Dais as principal players in the deal

That is Philly's best trade IMHO. GS is a fool to do it IMHO. They are better off with Davis.


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## cpawfan

dudleysghost said:


> Nene's deal is 5 years and $60 million. The question isn't if he's good enough to be better than Magloire, the question is if he is good enough to justify that very large financial commitment. I have my doubts as to whether he would be, or whether we'd be able to move him later.


No, it is 6 years and some of the $$ are deferred. He is being payed less than 8 million this season.


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## Schilly

Trader Bob said:


> yes.. I do.. pretty much
> 
> it was said on CS last night that he is continuing on to Memphis though.
> 
> I am sure he met with Billy King for the usual GM dialogue of we will give you this and that if you give me what I want... but I doubt we are in the AI sweepstakes


I wouldn't buy much of anything CS says about stuff like that. Apparently their explanation was Patterson had been planning on going on a road trip with the team. Well wouldn't that indicate a whole road trip, not the last 3 days of one?

Also it is pretty interesting that he flew to the hotbed of a blockbuster rumor, apparently met with the GM, who also would have seemingly taken time out of a major turning point in his franchises history , to shake hads and have a beer with another GM.

Also it is interesting that it was said that 2 team deals weren't wroking out, but a 3rd party had been found...The day after Patterson met with King.

ANd add to it late the day after Patterson meeting with King and all of a sudden there are reports from the 2 primary cities indicating that Portland may be a 3rd party team and having pretty straight forward ideas of what the deal might end up being.

Just saying ya know.


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## yakbladder

mediocre man said:


> Probably not the best question to ask me since I think Joel was a stupid signing this off season. I'd rather have Aldridge on the floor so he can learn the ins and outs of the game quicker.



Not to spoil your day but..what the heck... how do you know that LMA won't turn out to be much, much better at the 4 than the 5? I think you're taking for granted the fact that because he's tall he'll play the 5, when that always hasn't been the case (see Kevin Garnett). Yes, he has played some 5 this year, but 4 may end up being his natural position.


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## dudleysghost

cpawfan said:


> No, it is 6 years and some of the $$ are deferred. He is being payed less than 8 million this season.


So where do you get your numbers? Hoopshype lists him at 5 years, with $10 million this season and a 10.5% escalator. ESPN trade machine lists him with 6 years, starting at $8 mil. I don't know what you mean by deferred, but if it's like Zach's contract, where the payments are extended over a long period of time, it doesn't really matter to us. The important number is the cap number.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine


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## dudleysghost

Verro said:


> Just coming off ACL surgery Nene is definitely a buy low asset, with no small amount of risk considering his contract. But then again this summer Zach was in a very similar situation and if another team had traded for him at that time, they might have gotten a real value. I consider our current management to be good judges of talent (particularly KP), if they think he'll develop into a player worthy of that contract I'd be in favor of the deal.


That's a good point. It's really all about how well this guy can play, which I really have no idea about. I haven't seen him play since before his knee injury, but if management does make this trade, it does mean they expect him to step up and earn his money. I'm also definitely on the KP bandwagon, wherever it goes...


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## cpawfan

dudleysghost said:


> So where do you get your numbers? Hoopshype lists him at 5 years, with $10 million this season and a 10.5% escalator. ESPN trade machine lists him with 6 years, starting at $8 mil. I don't know what you mean by deferred, but if it's like Zach's contract, where the payments are extended over a long period of time, it doesn't really matter to us. The important number is the cap number.
> 
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm
> http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine


I never trust hoopshype salaries. It is a 6 year deal. How many links would you like me to provide?



RMN said:


> Nene agreed to a six-year, $60 million contract July 2, but the deal remained unofficial Tuesday as both sides tried to finalize the paperwork.


#1



ESPN said:


> Long-term commitment means a lot to Nuggets power forward Nene, who got married in his native Brazil two weeks ago and signed a six-year, $60 million contract to stay in Denver on Thursday.


#2


A 6 year deal starting at 8 million with 10.5% raises is 60.6 million. So an actual 6/60 contract would start for cap purposes at 7.92 million. 

On top of that, the actual cash outlay for the team is less as there are deferred payments which isn't reports, but confirmed by a Nuggets insider on another forum.


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## Masbee

ProudBFan said:


> Just had a (scary) thought:
> 
> You don't really believe Patterson flew all the way to Philly just to give Darnell his walking papers, do you?
> 
> PBF


Why not? Patterson often goes to road games and travels with the team. What ife had business in Portland which caused him to miss part of the trip, and was just catching up?


----------



## Trader Ed

Do yourselves a favor, and bookmark Storytellers salary figures for your reference. He is usually spot on, and I know he spends time to update them a lot. The Larry ****/ FAQ CBA of salary figures

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/06-07salaries.htm

ST you rock :clap2:

HoopsHype figures are not reliable or consistant


Nene $7.92 mil this year 

Its a HUGE commitment to Nene on our part if we trade for him rather than expire $8.3 mil. You have to ask yourselves.. why is denver willing to part with a bonifide PF/C whome they just gave a big contract to ??? for Ai?

he must still be hurt or not up to par yet


----------



## mediocre man

yakbladder said:


> Not to spoil your day but..what the heck... how do you know that LMA won't turn out to be much, much better at the 4 than the 5? I think you're taking for granted the fact that because he's tall he'll play the 5, when that always hasn't been the case (see Kevin Garnett). Yes, he has played some 5 this year, but 4 may end up being his natural position.



I think the 4 IS his natural possition actually. I'd still rather see him on the floor at the 5 rather than Joel.


----------



## mediocre man

Trader Bob said:


> Do yourselves a favor, and bookmark Storytellers salary figures for your reference. He is usually spot on, and I know he spends time to update them a lot. The Larry ****/ FAQ CBA of salary figures
> 
> http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/06-07salaries.htm
> 
> ST you rock :clap2:
> 
> HoopsHype figures are not reliable or consistant
> 
> 
> Nene $7.92 mil this year
> 
> Its a HUGE commitment to Nene on our part if we trade for him rather than expire $8.3 mil. You have to ask yourselves.. why is denver willing to part with a bonifide PF/C whome they just gave a big contract to ??? for Ai?
> 
> he must still be hurt or not up to par yet



Or they want salary cap space


----------



## dudleysghost

cpawfan said:


> I never trust hoopshype salaries. It is a 6 year deal. How many links would you like me to provide?
> 
> #1
> 
> #2
> 
> A 6 year deal starting at 8 million with 10.5% raises is 60.6 million. It would start for cap purposes at 7.92 million.
> 
> On top of that, the actual cash outlay for the team is less as there are deferred payments which isn't reports, but confirmed by a Nuggets insider on another forum.


Just one would have been fine, thanks. I doubt the news reports are going to report the decimal points on an 8 figure contract, but in any case it's about 8 million against the cap.

That still leaves the question of what Denver is going to send out. The previously mentioned Nene + Smith + Smith and Nene + Miller combos don't work. Seems to me that Iverson makes Miller redundant, so he would probably be included. I doubt they would send out JR Smith at this point, and Philly doesn't have any particular need for another SG. Nene + Miller + Joe Smith works, but it leaves them a little thin up front. Joe Smith could be replaced by Najera or Reggie Evans and the deal still works. That has to be it though, since there aren't many combinations left that don't include K-Mart, Camby or Carmelo.


----------



## Samuel

dudleysghost said:


> Just one would have been fine, thanks. I doubt the news reports are going to report the decimal points on an 8 figure contract, but in any case it's about 8 million against the cap.
> 
> That still leaves the question of what Denver is going to send out. The previously mentioned Nene + Smith + Smith and Nene + Miller combos don't work. Seems to me that Iverson makes Miller redundant, so he would probably be included. I doubt they would send out JR Smith at this point, and Philly doesn't have any particular need for another SG. Nene + Miller + Joe Smith works, but it leaves them a little thin up front. That has to be it though, since there aren't many combinations left that don't include K-Mart, Camby or Carmelo.


A trade like that puts Denver in the market for Randolph Morris.

That would leave them with Camby, Evans, Sampson, and Kleiza holding down the fort in the paint. Yikes.


----------



## Trader Ed

mediocre man said:


> Or they want salary cap space


Philly yes MM... not Denver?

Denver gives the committment to AI


----------



## dudleysghost

Trader Bob said:


> Do yourselves a favor, and bookmark Storytellers salary figures for your reference. He is usually spot on, and I know he spends time to update them a lot. The Larry ****/ FAQ CBA of salary figures
> 
> http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/06-07salaries.htm
> 
> ST you rock :clap2:
> 
> HoopsHype figures are not reliable or consistant
> 
> 
> Nene $7.92 mil this year
> 
> Its a HUGE commitment to Nene on our part if we trade for him rather than expire $8.3 mil. You have to ask yourselves.. why is denver willing to part with a bonifide PF/C whome they just gave a big contract to ??? for Ai?
> 
> he must still be hurt or not up to par yet


Yeah I have ST bookmarked, but it's a last resort for me because it takes forever to load on my laptop.

I'm also suspicious of why Denver wants to get rid of Nene. With his BYC status, it seems like he's not particularly helping match salaries. Andre Miller and Joe Smith (expiring) alone match Iverson's salary.

Still, what Denver could be doing is avoiding the luxury tax. They are close to it already, and adding Iverson's salary means they have to send out nearly as much long term salary obligation, rather than just expirings, to stay under the threshold. I wouldn't doubt that at all.


----------



## dudleysghost

Samuel said:


> A trade like that puts Denver in the market for Randolph Morris.
> 
> That would leave them with Camby, Evans, Sampson, and Kleiza holding down the fort in the paint. Yikes.


They'd also have Najera. Or, they could send out Najera OR Evans, and still have Joe Smith. But yeah, if they send out two of their big men, Nene + another, they are suddenly weak up front.

One last alternative possibility would be Denver sending out Miller, Nene and Julius Hodge. That just barely fits into the salary matching rules, and would let Denver keep their relatively inexpensive filler big men. Joe Smith still expires for them next year, so the salary implications would be the same as if they sent him out.


----------



## yakbladder

mediocre man said:


> I think the 4 IS his natural possition actually. I'd still rather see him on the floor at the 5 rather than Joel.


But you see, you want Joel out of the 5 because he's not a threat to score. But you need players who play certain roles, one is the tough D guy who can anchor the middle and absolve other players of their deficiencies in that area.

So moving LMA to the 4 and trading Zach for a star 3 (if all of that actually worked out and LMA was ready to take the nod at the 4) would still probably be the best position to take.


----------



## mediocre man

yakbladder said:


> But you see, you want Joel out of the 5 because he's not a threat to score. But you need players who play certain roles, one is the tough D guy who can anchor the middle and absolve other players of their deficiencies in that area.
> 
> So moving LMA to the 4 and trading Zach for a star 3 (if all of that actually worked out and LMA was ready to take the nod at the 4) would still probably be the best position to take.




That's exactly what I want to happen. I say it in every Zach thread. Regardless, I'd still rather have Aldridge on the floor rather than Joel. I'd rather have Joel on the floor with Aldridge though. I realize Zach plays circles around him right now, but I'd rather have a stud SF who could stretch the D and let Aldridge learn how to play on the job so to speak


----------



## hasoos

If you actually compare the 48 minute stats of Iguodala and Martell, they are not that far apart. Martell shoots better from 3 point land, but Iguodala shoots better from the field. If you consider that Iguodala is older then Martell and much more experienced, I think a trade with Magloire and Martell and getting Iggy back stinks. If we pulled something off where we got say, Luol Deng back, that is a separate situation, his 48 minute stats are superior by far to both players, but he is not much of a 3 point shooter. 

I just wanted to throw this out there so people can see what they are considering.

Scoring per 48 minutes played:

RANK PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG PTS FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% 

184 Andre Iguodala , PHI 20 39.8 17.5 5.7-12.1 .473 .9-2.7 .341 5.1-6.4 .802 
219 Martell Webster , POR 23 22.5 16.4 5.3-12.9 .410 3.3-7.6 .439 2.5-3.1 .818 
43 Luol Deng , CHI 21 34.7 25.4 10.4-18.6 .560 .0-.1 .000 4.5-6.7 .683


----------



## Trader Ed

nice research Hasoos

maybe we should just keep Martel and let him blossom


----------



## mediocre man

hasoos said:


> If you actually compare the 48 minute stats of Iguodala and Martell, they are not that far apart. Martell shoots better from 3 point land, but Iguodala shoots better from the field. If you consider that Iguodala is older then Martell and much more experienced, I think a trade with Magloire and Martell and getting Iggy back stinks. If we pulled something off where we got say, Luol Deng back, that is a separate situation, his 48 minute stats are superior by far to both players, but he is not much of a 3 point shooter.
> 
> I just wanted to throw this out there so people can see what they are considering.
> 
> Scoring per 48 minutes played:
> 
> RANK PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG PTS FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT%
> 
> 184 Andre Iguodala , PHI 20 39.8 17.5 5.7-12.1 .473 .9-2.7 .341 5.1-6.4 .802
> 219 Martell Webster , POR 23 22.5 16.4 5.3-12.9 .410 3.3-7.6 .439 2.5-3.1 .818
> 43 Luol Deng , CHI 21 34.7 25.4 10.4-18.6 .560 .0-.1 .000 4.5-6.7 .683




Whoa, I'm lost. You have Martell scoring 16.4 ppg. and really he is scoring around 7 ppg


----------



## Foulzilla

mediocre man said:


> Whoa, I'm lost. You have Martell scoring 16.4 ppg. and really he is scoring around 7 ppg


It's per 48 minutes to account for the minutes discrepancy (which is why it's rather odd he lists mpg as one of the stats).


----------



## Samuel

mediocre man said:


> Whoa, I'm lost. You have Martell scoring 16.4 ppg. and really he is scoring around 7 ppg


That's on a 'per 48m' basis.

RE: Iggy's similarity to Martell, keep in mind that Iggy's scoring clip is registered while the most frequent shooter in the league is in the game.


----------



## hasoos

Foulzilla said:


> It's per 48 minutes to account for the minutes discrepancy (which is why it's rather odd he lists mpg as one of the stats).



Yea I thought it was weird too they listed minutes as a stat, but you know how it is with the good old cut and paste.


----------



## mediocre man

Samuel said:


> That's on a 'per 48m' basis.
> 
> RE: Iggy's similarity to Martell, keep in mind that Iggy's scoring clip is registered while the most frequent shooter in the league is in the game.



LOL in fairness, Zach will never be confused with John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Steve Nash or Jason Kidd


----------



## hasoos

mediocre man said:


> LOL in fairness, Zach will never be confused with John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Steve Nash or Jason Kidd


That did it. Zbo's new nickname: "Black Stockton":biggrin:


----------



## Samuel

mediocre man said:


> LOL in fairness, Zach will never be confused with John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Steve Nash or Jason Kidd


AI is in a whole other category when it comes to field goals attempted (Zach shoots 6 less shots per game) and general dominance of the ball (Zach is a PF).


----------



## Foulzilla

hasoos said:


> Yea I thought it was weird too they listed minutes as a stat, but you know how it is with the good old cut and paste.


I supposed it could be useful to use as a benchmark on how accurate the per 48minute prediction will be. For example, I would say Iggy's per 48 is more likely to be accurate to him playing 48 minutes then Martell's is just because Iggy actually does play almost 40 minutes. No such thing as too much information I guess, just mildly confusing at a glance.


----------



## Utherhimo

would they just do the deal! darn this is boring


----------



## Masbee

hasoos said:


> If you actually compare the 48 minute stats of Iguodala and Martell, they are not that far apart. Martell shoots better from 3 point land, but Iguodala shoots better from the field. If you consider that Iguodala is older then Martell and much more experienced, I think a trade with Magloire and Martell and getting Iggy back stinks. If we pulled something off where we got say, Luol Deng back, that is a separate situation, his 48 minute stats are superior by far to both players, but he is not much of a 3 point shooter.
> 
> I just wanted to throw this out there so people can see what they are considering.
> 
> Scoring per 48 minutes played:
> 
> RANK PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG PTS FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT%
> 
> 184 Andre Iguodala , PHI 20 39.8 17.5 5.7-12.1 .473 .9-2.7 .341 5.1-6.4 .802
> 219 Martell Webster , POR 23 22.5 16.4 5.3-12.9 .410 3.3-7.6 .439 2.5-3.1 .818
> 43 Luol Deng , CHI 21 34.7 25.4 10.4-18.6 .560 .0-.1 .000 4.5-6.7 .683


I prefer PER numbers when making a quick check on player stats. PER includes adjustments for playing time AND Pace, which I think is helpful for comparing players on different teams.

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/index.htm#West

Martell Webster age 20, 2nd season: 10.9, 1st season 11.7
Andre Iguodala age 23, 3rd season: 16.1, 2nd season 14.8
Luol Deng age 21, 3rd season: 21.7, 2nd season 15.8

Last Season stats reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/

Martell is the only player who (so far) has regressed from last season.

Deng is the only guy playing at a high level right now. Deng is only a year older than Martell and two years younger than Iggy, making him the real STUD prospect out of this group. His inability to hit the long ball is a real bummer though, as our team really needs that as long as we have Zach working in the paint.

Webster 82games stats, below average for his team:
http://www.82games.com/0607/0607POR.HTM

Igoudala 82games stats, middle of the pack for his team:
http://www.82games.com/0607/0607PHI.HTM

Deng 82game stats, best on his team:
http://www.82games.com/0607/0607CHI.HTM


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

No way do we get Iddy. He is valued more than Iverson by the Sixers. 

The Mags for Nene deal is amazing. It would seriously change this team and give us even more flexibility for the future. We could deal Zach and start Nene at PF. We could go with Zach and Nene. We could bring Nene off the bench as a super-sub at PF/C. His contract is large, but he is young with much upside. This would be an amazing deal for us.


----------



## Oldmangrouch

Just FYI.

I the midst of all the anti-AI rants floating around, Bill Simmons has posted a pro-AI article on ESPN.

I have to admit, the guy makes some darn good points!


----------



## LameR

Oldmangrouch said:


> Just FYI.
> 
> I the midst of all the anti-AI rants floating around, Bill Simmons has posted a pro-AI article on ESPN.
> 
> I have to admit, the guy makes some darn good points!


Yeah, I noticed that as well. I thought it was a pretty good article.


----------



## furball

*Aldridge is reporting a deal is close.*

www.philly.com/mld/philly/16233289.htm

David Aldridge is usually pretty reliable. I really don't have any interest in Nene. When you have commited a bunch of money to Joel, Zack, Raef, and have a high pick like Aldridge, why would you trade for Nene?


----------



## Mr. Chuck Taylor

I don't like the deal. Nene has major injury concerns and is in the first year of a huge contract. He has very limited offensive skills, yet has never even averaged 1 block a game (even when playing 30+ minutes). And while it was suggested in this thread that getting Nene could open the door for better trades down the road, I see the opposite happening. Trades these days revolve around salaries just as much, if not more, than they do talent. If you can get Allen Iverson for expiring contracts, Magloire would probably fetch more than Nene come trade deadline time. He would certainly be easier to move. Not to mention, Nene would really hurt our luxury tax situation, limiting who we can sign/trade for in the future.


----------



## wastro

Unless they know something we don't, the front office won't trade Magloire for Nene. There is already more than enough money put into those positions at the moment. Doesn't make sense.


----------



## HOWIE

Mr. Chuck Taylor said:


> I don't like the deal. Nene has major injury concerns and is in the first year of a huge contract. He has very limited offensive skills, yet has never even averaged 1 block a game (even when playing 30+ minutes). And while it was suggested in this thread that getting Nene could open the door for better trades down the road, I see the opposite happening. Trades these days revolve around salaries just as much, if not more, than they do talent. If you can get Allen Iverson for expiring contracts, Magloire would probably fetch more than Nene come trade deadline time. He would certainly be easier to move. Not to mention, Nene would really hurt our luxury tax situation, limiting who we can sign/trade for in the future.


I guess this is where the trust that Pritchard and Patterson can evaluate talent comes into play. I can deal with the salary of Nene if he is 100%, if he isn't then I have a problem with the trade. 

Maybe Portland wants to be sure they have enough bigs next season, getting Oden isn't looking so good right now.


----------



## HOWIE

wastro said:


> Unless they know something we don't, the front office won't trade Magloire for Nene. There is already more than enough money put into those positions at the moment. Doesn't make sense.


It is also rumored that this would open the door to move Randolph. Now if they could move Miles with him!!!! I would think that if Portland makes this move they have another deal pending. Sell high, right?


----------



## Kmurph

Buy low and sell high...

Nene is young, he has been slow coming off an injury...but he has talent...

Frankly, I don't see POR getting anything better for Magliore...and it does open the door for a Zach trade, of which I think POR is inclined to pursue...

I think it is a decent deal and a potentially VERY good deal if Nene recovers and improves, as I expect he will....


----------



## darth-horax

IF this trade goes down as reported in Denver (Nene to Portland, Mags to Philly, AI to Denver, and Joe Smith to Philly) I'll comment on a few things.

First off, if Denver ONLY has to give up Nene and Joe Smith, then I'm all for it. Portland gets a great deal here, and Philly has contracts it can throw away next season. It's a win win win opportunity, so I say let's do it!

For you Portland fans, you'll LOVE Nene. He's coming off of an injury, yes, but he's HUGE, he's athletic, he alters the game like crazy when he's healthy. His presence allows you to either trade your other post players, or him, for future flexibility and considerations.

That being said, I wouldn't doubt it if Nene ends up going someplace OTHER than Portland when the dust settles. You have a lot of low post players, so maybe you can get something else you need for him or another post player?

Either way, fi THIS trade goes down, everybody wins.

Let's DO THIS!


----------



## Schilly

darth-horax said:


> That being said, I wouldn't doubt it if Nene ends up going someplace OTHER than Portland when the dust settles. You have a lot of low post players, so maybe you can get something else you need for him or another post player?
> 
> Let's DO THIS!


I'm not sure who'll end up where, but I'd imagine Nene stays here for the time being, and probably (Just a hunch) Zach Randolph ends up elsewhere.


----------



## Yega1979

If Denver will accept Darius Miles contract in exchange for Najera as well. Sold. Losing Darius will off-set the risk we're making in commiting to Nene.


----------



## darth-horax

Isn't Miles out for the year?

I don't think we'd do that. Najera is just too solid at his price range to get rid of.


----------



## Samuel

If this trade goes down, it'll just go to show how ancillary Raef LaFrentz is to this team for a guy that makes almost 12 million a year and has 3 years left on his deal.

Most teams have at least some sort of gameplan for a guy like that.


----------



## dkap

> Most teams have at least some sort of gameplan for a guy like that.


Uh, it's called acquiring Brandon Roy! It's not like Theo is showing anything in Boston, so it was basically just a salary exchange to get the pick we wanted. That's a pretty clear plan, in my opinion.

Dan


----------



## Samuel

dkap said:


> Uh, it's called acquiring Brandon Roy! It's not like Theo is showing anything in Boston, so it was basically just a salary exchange to get the pick we wanted. That's a pretty clear plan, in my opinion.
> 
> Dan


Hey, I'm not knocking the trade. I'd rather have Raef on the team than a guy like Theo Ratliff and I'm a huge Roy fan, I'm just saying that most teams use their 10-12m dollar men in some capacity.

*Active NBA Players who make at least 10m and don't play:*
(not counting waived players)

- Raef LaFrentz
- Theo Ratliff

There's only two in the league.


----------



## Utherhimo

how about the ai trade happening? tomorrow i think


----------



## BIG Q

From the Jason Quick Chat on O-live;

"Portland is not a willing partner in the 3 way deal. They dont want Nene's contract and his knees. Denver is pushing hard to get Portland involved because the Sixers want Jamaal's expiring contract. Denver has also said to be interested in Magloire down the line. So its good news for the Blazers, Magloire's value seems to be going up right now and there is a lot of interest in him. The Blazers now know there is enough interest that they can pick and choose what deal they want and dont have just unload him for whatever they can. 

Magloire is more at peace with his role on the Blazers right now and that has shown in his improved play as of late."


----------



## Schilly

Nice leveraging by Portland...This deal will happen tomorrow, adn one of Philly or Denver will panick and send us an addition piece.


----------



## Masbee

Samuel said:


> Hey, I'm not knocking the trade. I'd rather have Raef on the team than a guy like Theo Ratliff and I'm a huge Roy fan, I'm just saying that most teams use their 10-12m dollar men in some capacity.
> 
> *Active NBA Players who make at least 10m and don't play:*
> (not counting waived players)
> 
> - Raef LaFrentz
> - Theo Ratliff
> 
> There's only two in the league.


It was a calculated gamble.

Trade one stiff (Ratliff) for another stiff (LaFrentz) with an extra year on the deal.

Why take on the extra year?

Brandon Roy for one. That was part of the price.

To get rid of Theo who wouldn't play with a hangnail.

To swap for a bigman who might play? Raef 143 games and 4,227 minutes played prior 2 seasons. "Hangnail" Theo delivered 118 games and 3,036 uninspired minutes after he hoodwinked the Blazers into that nasty extension.

Move forward to this season and Raef got hurt. For real! **** happens. And when it does all the best planning in the world goes out the window. Even if your planning and decision making is sound doesn't mean it always plays out in your favor. Raef is not yet fully up to snuff from the injury. Expect to see more of him when he is.


----------



## Samuel

Schilly said:


> Nice leveraging by Portland...This deal will happen tomorrow, adn one of Philly or Denver will panick and send us an addition piece.


Exactly. Hopefully for Philly, this is the only deal that really works. Hopefully for Denver, they really want to get this deal done.

Don't count this out: Denver is on the brink of the playoffs this year, they're in the top half of team salaries, and their attendance is remarkably poor. AI would help address these problems.


It's that, or Portland waits until the deadline. More teams will enter the market when they realize that their franchise strategy isn't working, or a certain player isn't meshing with the team philosophy. 

Good work, Portland.


----------



## dudleysghost

My money is on us not making any deals. Philly or Denver could offer something more to entice us to take Nene, but they aren't going to.


----------



## Schilly

I'm not gonna put a ton of stock in Quicks take on it, he's never really had insight before. That said, I'm not holding my breatht that it will happen either. Guess we'll find out when AI gets moved.

Example of quick...Mark Ivaroni


----------



## dudleysghost

darth-horax said:


> First off, if Denver ONLY has to give up Nene and Joe Smith, then I'm all for it. ...


Unfortunately, Denver has to send out more salary than that to match Iverson's. Because of the base year compensation rules, Nene's salary only counts for half of it's actual value, so Denver is going to need a lot more outgoing to make it work.

If Iverson goes to Denver, Andre Miller is heading out, along with Joe Smith and someone else.


----------



## Utherhimo

if ai goes to denver we are a part of it, if he dont then we arent

if we could get a nice veteran sf that can help ime out a bit it owuld be all good


----------



## dudleysghost

Schilly said:


> I'm not gonna put a ton of stock in Quicks take on it, he's never really had insight before. That said, I'm not holding my breatht that it will happen either. Guess we'll find out when AI gets moved.
> 
> Example of quick...Mark Ivaroni


Even though Quick is the long-time beat reporter for the local paper who just said unequivocally that the Blazers didn't want to take on Nene's contract, I didn't need that to think the deal wouldn't happen. We just don't need a big money big man, and I really doubt Patterson and Pritchard have as much desire as people in here for us to get someone to replace Zach.

I could imagine that somehow we could be convinced to take on Nene, but I can't imagine what Denver or Philly would offer. I doubt Denver would give up JR Smith, and he wouldn't be that valuable to us anyways. Thier first round pick won't be that great. Philly sure isn't giving up Igoudala or their pick. It just doesn't add up.


----------



## barfo

dudleysghost said:


> I could imagine that somehow we could be convinced to take on Nene, but I can't imagine what Denver or Philly would offer. I doubt Denver would give up JR Smith, and he wouldn't be that valuable to us anyways. Thier first round pick won't be that great. Philly sure isn't giving up Igoudala or their pick. It just doesn't add up.


The bonus might be what Denver/Philly takes from us, rather than what they give us? 

barfo


----------



## dudleysghost

barfo said:


> The bonus might be what Denver/Philly takes from us, rather than what they give us?


Like Miles or Raef? Doesn't seem likely. We're only getting involved with this deal to provide an expiring salary. That goes out the window if we require them to accept one of our useless contracts. Denver or Philly could just keep/take Nene, and be better off than if they took one of our useless guys.


----------



## barfo

dudleysghost said:


> Like Miles or Raef? Doesn't seem likely. We're only getting involved with this deal to provide an expiring salary. That goes out the window if we require them to accept one of our useless contracts. Denver or Philly could just keep/take Nene, and be better off than if they took one of our useless guys.


In terms of Philly, you are right, of course. In terms of Denver, not so clear. As I understand the rumor, Philly wants expiring contracts. Denver wants AI, and [speculation]if they want AI bad enough, maybe they are willing to take on another bad contract, or at least trade us something they don't want for something we don't want.[/speculation]

barfo


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

If we somehow find a way to get JR Smith on this team I will split all my Christmas presents between Pritchard and Patterson. But it wont happen. 

I dont see what else we could get to sweeten the deal. Sending Miles out would be fantastic. Mags+Miles for Nene+Joe or Najera. Me likey.


----------



## Schilly

What if we are relaying Miles for a player of similar contract size/length?

Say Miles for Korver?

Miles makes more but his contract expires sooner.


----------



## BIG Q

I would do it in a heartbeat!!


----------



## dudleysghost

barfo said:


> In terms of Philly, you are right, of course. In terms of Denver, not so clear. As I understand the rumor, Philly wants expiring contracts. Denver wants AI, and [speculation]if they want AI bad enough, maybe they are willing to take on another bad contract, or at least trade us something they don't want for something we don't want.[/speculation]
> 
> barfo


If you can think of something that fits that description, it might work. The only Denver asset they really don't want is Kenyon Martin, and if we swap him for Darius or Raef, we come out losers financially. There only other large long term assets are Carmelo, Camby, and Nene.

Najera would be good, but he doesn't make that much ($4.5m), and he only has a season left after this. Reggie Evans has a long term contract they just gave him, but it's less than MLE. Now if they were willing to add a Miles for Najera or Evans swap to the deal, I'd say we have to jump on that, but they would still be taking on more (useless) salary, they would still be just over the tax threshold with only 9 players on their roster next season (I'm assuming Steven Hunter goes to, and they would be pretty thin at the big man spots unless K-Mart makes a huge comeback.

If they are willing to do that, as well as pay the extra salary and tax penalties required to fill out their roster, we would have to take that deal. It would essentially be us assuming a not too bad contract like Najera or Evans for the right to swap Miles for Nene. Put in those terms, I can't not love the idea. We could even give them both our second round picks next year to help them get extra guys for cheap. I'd give Outlaw to make that happen if they wanted.

I might even give them Sergio. He would give them depth (with only AI and Boykins at PG, they really should have a 3rd). He would also probably prosper in their run and gun system. I bag on Sergio sometimes, but I think he has potential and would be a lot for us to give up, so I'm not sure I'd want to do it, but here is one trade proposal that I think might make sense for all teams:

Philadelphia Sends:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter
Shavlik Randolph

Philly Gets:
Andre Miller
Joe Smith
Jamal Magloire
Denver's 2007 1st round pick

Denver Sends:
Miller
Joe Smith
2007 1st round pick
Evans
Julius Hodge

Denver Gets:
Iverson
Steven Hunter
Darius Miles
Sergio Rodriguez
Shavlik Randolph
2 2007 2nd Round picks (from POR and IND)

Portland Sends:
Jamaal Magloire
D Miles
Sergio Rodriguez
2 2007 2nd Round picks

Portland Gets:
Nene Hilario
Reggie Evans
Julius Hodge

Comments?


----------



## dudleysghost

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> If we somehow find a way to get JR Smith on this team I will split all my Christmas presents between Pritchard and Patterson. But it wont happen.
> 
> I dont see what else we could get to sweeten the deal. Sending Miles out would be fantastic. Mags+Miles for Nene+Joe or Najera. Me likey.


Oops I didn't see yours when I wrote mine. I guess I stole your idea. Joe Smith is probably going to Philly in this deal, so he wouldn't be available. Adding a Miles for Najera swap sounds great, but then I think we'd have to be the ones adding something else to make Denver actually do that. Miles's contract really sucks that bad.


----------



## dudleysghost

Schilly said:


> What if we are relaying Miles for a player of similar contract size/length?
> 
> Say Miles for Korver?
> 
> Miles makes more but his contract expires sooner.


I wish it were that easy. I don't really like Korver, but anything is better than Miles right now. Unfortunately, it requires a lot more finagling to make this work out, because Denver wouldn't take Miles's contract even to get Iverson, unless we do alot more to make it better, and Philly isn't taking Miles under any cirumstances short of us taking Dalembert and giving them something else.


----------



## zagsfan20

Billy King would have to be completely off his rocker if he traded Korver for Miles.

That said, Korver is just the kind of guy we need. A perimeter shooter who can hit the three consistently when we spread the ball around.


----------



## dudleysghost

Canzano column today about a possible Nene trade, and he's saying the Nuggets offer includes their 2007 first round pick going to Portland.

Other than that tidbit of info, it isn't that interesting IMO. It's a vintage Canzano piece, with a bunch of semi-lucid and halfway informed complaining, and two uses of the word "feels" as though it were a logical justification. He thinks we can do better than this deal, by getting a SF for Magloire's contract, because Magloire is suddenly a great asset.


----------



## Iwatas

I really don't want to see Sergio traded. He has vast, vast potential, and we would not get value for him. 

Players like an Outlaw or Miles or even a Webster are known commodities. We can argue about how good they might be, but none will be a superstar.

Sergio could be Nash or Kidd good. I would not like to see him traded at all.

iWatas


----------



## BiggaAdams

Iwatas said:


> I really don't want to see Sergio traded. He has vast, vast potential, and we would not get value for him.
> 
> Players like an Outlaw or Miles or even a Webster are known commodities. We can argue about how good they might be, but none will be a superstar.
> 
> Sergio could be Nash or Kidd good. I would not like to see him traded at all.
> 
> iWatas


He'll never be Kidd good, Kidd's defense is unreachable by Sergio.

Webster has more potential to be a superstar than Sergio.

I agree though, don't trade him.


----------



## Ukrainefan

I like Dudleysghost idea of getting rid of miles contract in this deal somehow. Also the Philadelphia Inquirer say Portland has been checking out Nene's knee and think it may be OK.

Here's a fairly simple trade sequence that works on Realgm;

Portland trades Magloire to Philadelphia and Miles to Denver; receives back Najera (or Reggie Evans, whichever Denver wants to get rid of) and Nene and Julius Hodge.

Denver sends Joe Smith and draft picks to Philadelphia.

Philadelphia sends Iverson to Denver.

I don't believe the report that Denver is willing to send their first round 2007 draft pick to Portland. From what I'm reading Philadelphia is most interested in expiring contracts and draft picks so Denver needs to send this pick to Philadelphia. 

I think this trade would be OK for the Blazers, they not only get rid of Miles but also acquire an asset in Nene (if they think his knee is OK) to be kept or traded again depending on their plans for Randolph. If Denver does it they would be really short on big bodies so maybe a more complicated trade like Dudleysghost is necessary.


----------



## BIG Q

As mentioned by Ukrainefan above;

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/16244997.htm

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/16243344.htm


Brown's reemergence with the Sixers came as King continued sifting through offers for Iverson. The Denver Nuggets are continuing to try to broker a three-team deal that would send Iverson to Denver, forward Nene to Portland, and center Jamaal Magloire (from the Blazers), forward Joe Smith (from the Nuggets), and another player to Philadelphia. 

*The Blazers, according to a source, are doing their due diligence on Nene, and now believe his surgically repaired knee is sound after he missed almost all of last season after suffering a ligament injury.*


----------



## mediocre man

BIG Q said:


> As mentioned by Ukrainefan above;
> 
> http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/16244997.htm
> 
> Brown's reemergence with the Sixers came as King continued sifting through offers for Iverson. The Denver Nuggets are continuing to try to broker a three-team deal that would send Iverson to Denver, forward Nene to Portland, and center Jamaal Magloire (from the Blazers), forward Joe Smith (from the Nuggets), and another player to Philadelphia.
> 
> *The Blazers, according to a source, are doing their due diligence on Nene, and now believe his surgically repaired knee is sound after he missed almost all of last season after suffering a ligament injury.*



Another article on www.hoopshype.com say the Blazers want no part of Nene's contract because it would put them in luxery tax hell for the next several seasons


----------



## hasoos

BIG Q said:


> As mentioned by Ukrainefan above;
> 
> http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/16244997.htm
> 
> Brown's reemergence with the Sixers came as King continued sifting through offers for Iverson. The Denver Nuggets are continuing to try to broker a three-team deal that would send Iverson to Denver, forward Nene to Portland, and center Jamaal Magloire (from the Blazers), forward Joe Smith (from the Nuggets), and another player to Philadelphia.
> 
> *The Blazers, according to a source, are doing their due diligence on Nene, and now believe his surgically repaired knee is sound after he missed almost all of last season after suffering a ligament injury.*


So how long until Cheeks is fired and Larry Brown takes over? My money is on soon. I would have to bet the whole reason Brown left the Sixers is because he could not deal with Iverson anymore. Now that he will be hitting the road, maybe the door is open for him to come back.


----------



## Kmurph

I think POR is crazy for not taking this deal.........

Nene is what? 24? Let's say that for the next 2 years he still is playing inconsistently, or that his work ethic has not improved or that he still has some lingering injury issue...or all three...then what?

Well....Then he is STILL a 26yr old, 6'11 270+lb F\C with a 7'3 reach. 

meaning...He STILL has trade value, and what clowns like Canzano don't understand is that Magliore's trade value ends after the FA deadline this year...and if POR mgmt sits around....in hopes of getting a better deal, then they may be left holding the bag, yet again.....

and now DEN is offering a 1st rounder to POR as further enticement...

So I reiterate....What is POR mgmt waiting for?

Make the deal

A) I seriously doubt POR is going to get a better offer for Magliore

B) Nene is still young...only 24...and he blends in with POR youth movement

C) Nene's value is at its lowest point....The perfect time to get VALUE in this deal

D) POR is able to get an ADDITIONAL asset in the form of a late 1st round pick...in what is looking to be a VERY strong 2007 draft

E)Acquiring Nene gives POR more depth at PF\C...always a good thing...and if he recovers from his injury and his play improves...as it VERY may will...Then it allows POR to be more aggressive in trying to deal Zach...which IMO, SHOULD be a priority...as Zach is STILL a knucklehead...and his value isn't going to get any higher than is it currently....and is one more boneheaded manuever away from plummeting yet again..... 

Make the deal...It isn't going to get any better than this....


----------



## mediocre man

Kmurph said:


> I think POR is crazy for not taking this deal.........
> 
> Nene is what? 24? Let's say that for the next 2 years he still is playing inconsistently, or that his work ethic has not improved or that he still has some lingering injury issue...or all three...then what?
> 
> Well....Then he is STILL a 26yr old, 6'11 270+lb F\C with a 7'3 reach.
> 
> meaning...He STILL has trade value, and what clowns like Canzano don't understand is that Magliore's trade value ends after the FA deadline this year...and if POR mgmt sits around....in hopes of getting a better deal, then they may be left holding the bag, yet again.....
> 
> and now DEN is offering a 1st rounder to POR as further enticement...
> 
> So I reiterate....What is POR mgmt waiting for?
> 
> Make the deal
> 
> A) I seriously doubt POR is going to get a better offer for Magliore
> 
> B) Nene is still young...only 24...and he blends in with POR youth movement
> 
> C) Nene's value is at its lowest point....The perfect time to get VALUE in this deal
> 
> D) POR is able to get an ADDITIONAL asset in the form of a late 1st round pick...in what is looking to be a VERY strong 2007 draft
> 
> E)Acquiring Nene gives POR more depth at PF\C...always a good thing...and if he recovers from his injury and his play improves...as it VERY may will...Then it allows POR to be more aggressive in trying to deal Zach...which IMO, SHOULD be a priority...as Zach is STILL a knucklehead...and his value isn't going to get any higher than is it currently....and is one more boneheaded manuever away from plummeting yet again.....
> 
> Make the deal...It isn't going to get any better than this....



It's really bad as far as the luxury tax is concerened though.


----------



## Schilly

mediocre man said:


> It's really bad as far as the luxury tax is concerened though.


Unless there are other deals in the future.


----------



## Kmurph

> It's really bad as far as the luxury tax is concerened though.


How bad?

b\c I was under the impression that IF POR was unable to deal Lafrentz, Zach or another big salary by NEXT YEAR...AND if the slarly cap didn't increase...then POR would be approximately 4-6mil over the cap?

Can someone confirm?


----------



## Anonymous Gambler

I would also take Nene and a first rounder in a second.

Maybe we can work it to also get Buckner for the 76ers- he seems like a good defender from his profile.


----------



## Schilly

THe Luxury Tax for this year is about 65mil. FOr next year it will likely be in the 70mil range. Protland with the addition of Nene, a 1st rounder and a re-signed Travis will be right around 70mil. SO I doubt that it really makes any luxury Taxx implication at all.


----------



## Samuel

I would totally do this deal if it included a pick.


----------



## Iwatas

I agree entirely with Kmurph. He put it beautifully.

iWatas


----------



## dwood615

if we can somehow get jr smith instead of the pick id do it


----------



## dwood615

give up juan dixon for jr smith as well...then id say its a done deal


----------



## ebott

Kmurph said:


> How bad?
> 
> b\c I was under the impression that IF POR was unable to deal Lafrentz, Zach or another big salary by NEXT YEAR...AND if the slarly cap didn't increase...then POR would be approximately 4-6mil over the cap?
> 
> Can someone confirm?


I'm using hoopshype's numbers here. Right now we're at 73 mil. But for luxury tax purposes we can ignore Derek Anderson's contract so we're really at 63 which puts us just a little under the luxury tax.

If we do this deal for Nene he'll be making 11 mil (3 mil more than Magloire is making this year) next year. That move by itself puts us above this year's luxury tax threshold of 65.2 mil. And when you account for everyone's 10% raises it puts us signficantly above the luxury tax. And that's not counting our draft picks and the possibility of re-signing Travis Outlaw.

So we would undoubtedly be above the luxury tax next season if we did this deal.

I'd still do the deal. I think Nene could get healthy and become highly tradeable before the end of the season. Or he might do so well that we'd trade Zach or Joel or Aldridge. Or maybe we keep everybody and they do great together. It's not such a bad thing to have four solid big men that will all be around for several seasons. There is also the chance we could pull off other moves and get down below the luxury tax. 

But it's not my money. 

I can understand if the powers that be would rather just let Magloire's contract expire so that we can have some flexibility and guarantee that we stay under the luxury tax next season. Or trade for a serviceable small forward like Morris Peterson who would likely help us more this season than an extra big body like Nene without the large contract.


----------



## dwood615

i would never want mo pete on our team...i dont like his style of play at all


----------



## Samuel

dwood615 said:


> if we can somehow get jr smith instead of the pick id do it


You're dreaming...


----------



## mediocre man

ebott said:


> I'm using hoopshype's numbers here. Right now we're at 73 mil. But for luxury tax purposes we can ignore Derek Anderson's contract so we're really at 63 which puts us just a little under the luxury tax.
> 
> If we do this deal for Nene he'll be making 11 mil (3 mil more than Magloire is making this year) next year. That move by itself puts us above this year's luxury tax threshold of 65.2 mil. And when you account for everyone's 10% raises it puts us signficantly above the luxury tax. And that's not counting our draft picks and the possibility of re-signing Travis Outlaw.
> 
> So we would undoubtedly be above the luxury tax next season if we did this deal.
> 
> I'd still do the deal. I think Nene could get healthy and become highly tradeable before the end of the season. Or he might do so well that we'd trade Zach or Joel or Aldridge. Or maybe we keep everybody and they do great together. It's not such a bad thing to have four solid big men that will all be around for several seasons. There is also the chance we could pull off other moves and get down below the luxury tax.
> 
> But it's not my money.
> 
> I can understand if the powers that be would rather just let Magloire's contract expire so that we can have some flexibility and guarantee that we stay under the luxury tax next season. Or trade for a serviceable small forward like Morris Peterson who would likely help us more this season than an extra big body like Nene without the large contract.




Speaking of putting it beautifully


----------



## BIG Q

From ESPN Insider;

Dec 15 - By late afternoon Thursday, two league sources confirmed the offer of the Nuggets' 2007 first-round draft pick and Nene was still on the table. "If Portland wants to do this, it's there to be done," said one.


----------



## mediocre man

BIG Q said:


> From ESPN Insider;
> 
> Dec 15 - By late afternoon Thursday, two league sources confirmed the offer of the Nuggets' 2007 first-round draft pick and Nene was still on the table. "If Portland wants to do this, it's there to be done," said one.



If the team thinks it can clear cap space by dealing someone else it's an absolutely great deal for Portland


----------



## Trader Ed

Help is on the way

here is an evolved version of the AI trade to Denver found in some of the chat rooms...

It gives us cap relief in the form of Mo Pete and his $4.5 mil expiring salary and moves out Dixon

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...87~1713~788~366~656&teams=28~20~20~22~20~7~22

This is a beautiful solution to acquiring Nene... we still get $4.5 mil cap relief

PG Jack, Rodriguez, Dickau
SG Roy, Webster, Peterson
SF Udoka, Outlaw, (Webster), Miles
PF Randolph, Nene
C Aldridge, Przybilla, LeFrentz


Nextup.... Dickau, Miles and maybe Randolph


----------



## dwood615

dickau is ok to keep...he onyl has 1 year left after this year

miles has gotta go but i dont see it happening realistically..

and i wanna keep zach personally...i love him...when miles isnt around he seems to act a little better and try a lot harder


----------



## Schilly

Trader Bob said:


> Help is on the way
> 
> here is an evolved version of the AI trade to Denver found in some of the chat rooms...
> 
> It gives us cap relief in the form of Mo Pete and his $4.5 mil expiring salary and moves out Dixon
> 
> http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...87~1713~788~366~656&teams=28~20~20~22~20~7~22
> 
> This is a beautiful solution to acquiring Nene... we still get $4.5 mil cap relief
> 
> PG Jack, Rodriguez, Dickau
> SG Roy, Webster, Peterson
> SF Udoka, Outlaw, (Webster), Miles
> PF Randolph, Nene
> C Aldridge, Przybilla, LeFrentz
> 
> 
> Nextup.... Dickau, Miles and maybe Randolph


Actually TBob the Raptors are under the cap by about 2 mill or so, and are offering to simply accept a player without giving one up.


----------



## dwood615

im cool on gettin mo pete though...i dont like him at all


----------



## Oldmangrouch

First, let me say that I have no clue who Paul Allen intends to leave his money too when he dies.....but I know it isn't me! As a result, I find it very hard to get worked up over Luxury Tax implications.

Second, there is a big "IF" here involving Nene's knee. If he isn't physically sound, the deal is not going to work.

Third, even if Nene is sound, he is no way, shape, or form an adequate replacement for Zach. Pre-injury, Nene was limited on offense, albeit still better than JMag or J_el. He was also showing some promise as a help defender.

In the long-term, I would rather have Nene to back up Zach and LaMarcus than any of Joel/JMag/LaFrentz. The catch is, he is way overpayed for that role.

Is a late 1st rounder worth the price? I'm really on the fence about this deal!


----------



## dwood615

Samuel said:


> You're dreaming...


i actually asaw somethign that said portland wanted another player possibly jr smith before they will do the deal


----------



## dwood615

nene isnt better then magloire in my eyes....why take on a 5 year contract...and get a crappy pick

id rather just let him walk and use the money to resign outlaw...thats me personally...unless we can get a young wing player


----------



## BIG Q

There is a report out of here in Phoenix that the trade looks to be expanding this way;

Philly 

Kyle Korver 
6-6 SF from Creighton 
11.4 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.2 minutes 
Allen Iverson 
6-0 PG from Georgetown 
33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg in 43.0 minutes

Incoming 
Jamaal Magloire 
6-11 C from Kentucky 
9.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 30.1 minutes 
Joe Smith 
6-10 PF from Maryland 
8.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 20.2 minutes 
J.R. Smith 
6-6 SG from St. Benedict's Prep (HS) 
7.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 18.0 minutes 

2-2nd rounders via Portland in 2007 
1st rounder from Denver 2007 

Change in team outlook: -18.9 ppg, +10.2 rpg, and -6.9 apg. 


Portland 

Outgoing 
Juan Dixon 
6-3 PG from Maryland 
12.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 25.3 minutes 
Jamaal Magloire 
6-11 C from Kentucky 
9.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 30.1 minutes 
2-2nd Rounders in the 2007 draft 

Incoming 
Kyle Korver 
6-6 SF from Creighton 
11.4 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.2 minutes 
Nene Hilario 
6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign) 
0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.0 minutes 
1st rounder from Denver for 2007 

Change in team outlook: -10.1 ppg, -8.5 rpg, and -0.7 apg. 



Denver Trade Breakdown 

Outgoing 
Nene Hilario 
6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign) 
0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.0 minutes 
Joe Smith 
6-10 PF from Maryland 
8.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 20.2 minutes 
J.R. Smith 
6-6 SG from St. Benedict's Prep (HS) 
7.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 18.0 minutes 

Incoming 
Allen Iverson 
6-0 PG from Georgetown 
33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg in 43.0 minutes 
Juan Dixon 
6-3 PG from Maryland 
12.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 25.3 minutes 

This is also all over the Philly board in another chat site. They have over 535 pages going!


----------



## BiggaAdams

Not a chance in hell we take KORVER and Nene's contracts. That's adding 14.3 mil this and it only gets worse. Korvers contract is too long term unless some team is taking Darius' contract.
Korvers contract

$4,011,551

$4,392,739

$4,773,927

$5,155,115

$5,536,303

No thanks.


----------



## MAS RipCity

Wow..Korver and Martell in the game at the same for a stretch would be SICK NASTY! I'm starting to not care about contracts...we will..the boss is happy. Not to mention, having Nene is some nice insurence if we want to deal Zach..also you buy low sell nigh..right now Nene's value is at an all-time LOW. There's a chance he comes back to form..it's a risk though. our depth chart would be ncie as well.

PG-Jarrett Jack,Sergio Rodriguez,Dan Dickau
SG-Brandon Roy,Kyle Korver(Martell)
SF-Martell Webster,Travis Outlaw,Ime Udoka
PF-Zach Randolph,Nene Hilario
C-LaMarcus Aldridge,Joel Przybilla,Raef LaFrentz
We would actually have a bench guys..it is VERY tempting.


----------



## dudleysghost

Schilly said:


> THe Luxury Tax for this year is about 65mil. FOr next year it will likely be in the 70mil range. Protland with the addition of Nene, a 1st rounder and a re-signed Travis will be right around 70mil. SO I doubt that it really makes any luxury Taxx implication at all.


That's without adding money for whatever players we draft next season. I think it's safe to assume we'll use our lotto pick. That leaves Paul Allen to decide whether he wants to pay the tax to keep Travis Outlaw and a possible MLE free agent. The next year we have only Outlaw (assuming he isn't extended), Dixon and Dickau expiring, so we might have the same problem again.

So there clearly are lux tax implications. The question is whether Paul Allen is willing to pay it. Since TBI is still laying people off, and since they weren't willing to pay the tax to get a MLE free agent this season, my guess is he is not willing. Maybe if we are someday close to contention he would authorize it, but we aren't close yet.


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

We have to get this done. Personally, I would not take on Korver unless we ship Miles out somehow. But, if the offer of Nene and a 2007 1st round pick is on the table we would be nuts not to take it. Bigh low and sell high.


----------



## Schilly

dudleysghost said:


> That's without adding money for whatever players we draft next season. I think it's safe to assume we'll use our lotto pick. That leaves Paul Allen to decide whether he wants to pay the tax to keep Travis Outlaw and a possible MLE free agent. The next year we have only Outlaw (assuming he isn't extended), Dixon and Dickau expiring, so we might have the same problem again.
> 
> So there clearly are lux tax implications. The question is whether Paul Allen is willing to pay it. Since TBI is still laying people off, and since they weren't willing to pay the tax to get a MLE free agent this season, my guess is he is not willing. Maybe if we are someday close to contention he would authorize it, but we aren't close yet.


I factored in our 1st rounder and retaining Travis.


----------



## BIG Q

FWIW

Another chat board with a poster with "inside Sixers info" is saying the deeal is done and will be reported soon. It is with Denver, no mention of a third team or players/picks.


----------



## Samuel

I'd rather do the pick deal than the Korver deal.


----------



## MAS RipCity

I just want all the speculation to end and for AI just to be dealt already.


----------



## HOWIE

BIG Q said:


> FWIW
> 
> Another chat board with a poster with "inside Sixers info" is saying the deeal is done and will be reported soon. It is with Denver, no mention of a third team or players/picks.


interesting, I wonder if Portland or Toronto or both are going to be in the mix. I have ESPN radio on right now


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

I hope we pulled this one off. A healthy Nene and a lethal shooter like Korver could potentially make us a bubble playoff team.


----------



## mediocre man

HOWIE said:


> interesting, I wonder if Portland or Toronto or both are going to be in the mix. I have ESPN radio on right now




When I watched the Toronto game on league pass the Toronto announcers were saying over and over what a huge icon Magloire is in Toronto. Maybe they are trying to find a way to get him in this???


----------



## HOWIE

mediocre man said:


> When I watched the Toronto game on league pass the Toronto announcers were saying over and over what a huge icon Magloire is in Toronto. Maybe they are trying to find a way to get him in this???


Maybe Portland isn't in on the Iverson deal and they have their own deal in the works with Toronto? I'll also be happy once things start moving and Iverson is a Nugget.


----------



## dudleysghost

Schilly said:


> I factored in our 1st rounder and retaining Travis.


Storyteller has us at 60.932m next year already, if we just pick up the QO on Outlaw and with Freeland. Add 8 mil for Nene and we're at 69 mil, which is right at what the lux tax will be assuming league revenues rise a healthy 6.7%. That total does not include our own 1st round pick next year, any other draft picks we use, re-signing Ime Udoka, or any free agent signings.

Perhaps fortunately though, our roster would have 14 guaranteed contracts though, if this trade goes through and if Freeland comes to the US next year, so after using our first round draft pick we'd probably trade any other draft picks for future considerations, let either Outlaw or Ime walk and not sign any free agent, unless a consolidating trade can be found to both save us money and free up a roster spot.


----------



## Samuel

dudleysghost said:


> if this trade goes through and if Freeland comes to the US next year


I haven't heard anything about Freeland coming over next year. He still seems to be a few years away. 

Has there been any recent news on the subject?


----------



## Trader Ed

BIG Q said:


> FWIW
> 
> Another chat board with a poster with "inside Sixers info" is saying the deeal is done and will be reported soon. It is with Denver, no mention of a third team or players/picks.


You must be reading the trade board at RealGm as well....

I saw that... I am ready for all this hoopla to be finished and find out what we end up with, if we are involved at all

If we are.. Philly takes a huge salary dump at the end of the year for AI.... Smith and Magloire are over $15 mil....


----------



## GOD

Attention

A "friend" just told me that portland (as of noon friday) is back in discussions for nene but demanding a first round draft pick in addition. I do not know more then that as my friend was unable to elaborate.

I am sorry but I can not say who my friend is, but I do trust him.


----------



## dudleysghost

Samuel said:


> I haven't heard anything about Freeland coming over next year. He still seems to be a few years away.
> 
> Has there been any recent news on the subject?


I don't think there is any news. I think the franchise would prefer if he stayed a few years, just like they wanted Sergio to stay in Europe this year, but it isn't always up to the franchise. It would be nice to have the extra roster spot next season, but his salary is pretty small ($771k), so if he doesn't come over it doesn't save much money.


----------



## Trader Ed

BIG Q said:


> There is a report out of here in Phoenix that the trade looks to be expanding this way;
> 
> Philly
> 
> Kyle Korver
> 6-6 SF from Creighton
> 11.4 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.2 minutes
> Allen Iverson
> 6-0 PG from Georgetown
> 33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg in 43.0 minutes
> 
> Incoming
> Jamaal Magloire
> 6-11 C from Kentucky
> 9.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 30.1 minutes
> Joe Smith
> 6-10 PF from Maryland
> 8.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 20.2 minutes
> J.R. Smith
> 6-6 SG from St. Benedict's Prep (HS)
> 7.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 18.0 minutes
> 
> 2-2nd rounders via Portland in 2007
> 1st rounder from Denver 2007
> 
> Change in team outlook: -18.9 ppg, +10.2 rpg, and -6.9 apg.
> 
> 
> Portland
> 
> Outgoing
> Juan Dixon
> 6-3 PG from Maryland
> 12.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 25.3 minutes
> Jamaal Magloire
> 6-11 C from Kentucky
> 9.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 30.1 minutes
> 2-2nd Rounders in the 2007 draft
> 
> Incoming
> Kyle Korver
> 6-6 SF from Creighton
> 11.4 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.2 minutes
> Nene Hilario
> 6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign)
> 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.0 minutes
> 1st rounder from Denver for 2007
> 
> Change in team outlook: -10.1 ppg, -8.5 rpg, and -0.7 apg.
> 
> 
> 
> Denver Trade Breakdown
> 
> Outgoing
> Nene Hilario
> 6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign)
> 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.0 minutes
> Joe Smith
> 6-10 PF from Maryland
> 8.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 20.2 minutes
> J.R. Smith
> 6-6 SG from St. Benedict's Prep (HS)
> 7.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 18.0 minutes
> 
> Incoming
> Allen Iverson
> 6-0 PG from Georgetown
> 33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg in 43.0 minutes
> Juan Dixon
> 6-3 PG from Maryland
> 12.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 25.3 minutes
> 
> This is also all over the Philly board in another chat site. They have over 535 pages going!



I like this better than the Toronto version. And it seems to be repeated in other forums. So it may have some legs.

PG Jack, Rodriguez, Dickau
SG Roy, Webster, Graham
SF Korver, Udoka, Outlaw, (Webster), Miles
PF Randolph, Nene
C Aldridge, Przybilla, LeFrentz

Lots of committment to salary in the long haul... but our defense via Nene and shooting via Korver just got better if its true... and our 2nd teamis pretty solid


----------



## dwood615

yeah but i think you start udoka over mo pete in that lineup...have pete spark off the bench like dixon used too..even though i hate mo pete...lol


----------



## Schilly

We aren't getting Mo Pete


----------



## dudleysghost

Nate McVillain said:


> Attention
> 
> A "friend" just told me that portland (as of noon friday) is back in discussions for nene but demanding a first round draft pick in addition. I do not know more then that as my friend was unable to elaborate.
> 
> I am sorry but I can not say who my friend is, but I do trust him.


This is interesting. I guess we should play hardball and get whatever we can get, but I don't see why we'd especially want another 1st round draft pick. Denver has their own and one from the Mavs, so either way it's going to be a late pick. As stated before, with this trade we are at the tax threshold and we've got a nearly full roster.

We could use the extra pick as a trade asset, but we'd probably not end up actually using it to get a player.


----------



## SheedSoNasty

Trader Bob said:


> I like this better than the Toronto version. And it seems to be repeated in other forums. So it may have some legs.
> 
> PG Jack, Rodriguez, Dickau
> SG Roy, Webster, Graham
> SF Korver, Udoka, Outlaw, (Webster), Miles
> PF Randolph, Nene
> C Aldridge, Prxybilla, LeFrentz
> 
> Lots of committment to salary in the long haul... but our defense via Nene and shooting via Korver just got better if its true... and our 2nd teamis pretty solid


You know... even though it might put us well out of the number one pick, I like that lineup.

I think that Aldridge will do well at either PF or C, Korver's a good shooter (though I wouldn't start him), Webster is still developing, and Outlaw is making some good progress. Add in Nene and a healthy Roy and we'll win some games.


----------



## darth-horax

I don't see why Denver would trade JR Smith and get back Juan Dixon. I mean, Dixon is a PG, and we'd have Boykins, Miller, AND AI already, so Dixon is expendable...unless they want him as a 2 guard, which would suck.


----------



## Spoolie Gee

Dixon isnt a PG. He's always played the 2 in Portland.


----------



## Samuel

darth-horax said:


> I mean, Dixon is a PG,


Dixon is a SG.


----------



## ebott

mediocre man said:


> When I watched the Toronto game on league pass the Toronto announcers were saying over and over what a huge icon Magloire is in Toronto. Maybe they are trying to find a way to get him in this???


Wishful thinking. I remember years ago when AC Green (who went to Benson Highschool here in Portland) was playing for the Lakers there was always some crackpot idea that we were gonna be able to trade for him. Or the year Damon was drafted we thought he'd be available at #8 just because he was from here.

Just from a cap standpoint there's no way they could trade for Magloire. Every time some Toronto fan brings up the idea in some other trade idea thread it comes out as "Magloire for Morris Peterson and we'll find someone else with an expiring contract to throw in to make it work." 

Unfortunately there's no one else on their team to make it work. The only other expiring guy they have is Uros Slokar. Even if we we weren't looking for an expiring guy the only guys on their team making that kind of money are Bosh, Garbajosa, Bargnani, Fred Jones and Anthony Parker. 

I was about to say that they wouldn't deal any of those guys to get Magloire. But maybe they'd part with Fred Jones or Anthony Parker. Magloire's been playing better lately so he's not as useless as I once thought so I don't just wanna give him away any more. So I don't think I'd do a Mo Pete and Anthony Parker deal. But I'd be tempted by a Mo Pete and Fred Jones deal.

But even so there's no way I'd do that deal rather than getting Nene.


----------



## GOD

dudleysghost said:


> This is interesting. I guess we should play hardball and get whatever we can get, but I don't see why we'd especially want another 1st round draft pick. Denver has their own and one from the Mavs, so either way it's going to be a late pick. As stated before, with this trade we are at the tax threshold and we've got a nearly full roster.
> 
> We could use the extra pick as a trade asset, but we'd probably not end up actually using it to get a player.


I don't know, but my guess is that picks can be used to get other teams to take our bad contracts like Miles or Raef. Miles and a first round pick for an expiring contract might fly? I don't know.


----------



## BIG Q

Nate McVillain said:


> Attention
> 
> A "friend" just told me that portland (as of noon friday) is back in discussions for nene but demanding a first round draft pick in addition. I do not know more then that as my friend was unable to elaborate.
> 
> I am sorry but I can not say who my friend is, but I do trust him.


I hope you understand I am just passing info along that I come across. I am not endorsing any as factual. I am just throwing stuff in here for those that might not be able to search for the info due to work or whatever. I have no sources so that we are all straight. I am just compiling and reporting what I see. 

The Sixers board at Real GM really puts a lot of stock in an individual poster that seems to have inside access to the Sixers management. He has been working a 550 page thread over there. It has been an interesting read.


----------



## dudleysghost

BIG Q said:


> There is a report out of here in Phoenix that the trade looks to be expanding this way...


It doesn't match. Nene is a BYC player, so his outgoing salary only counts for half of its actual value for matching purposes. This trade has Denver about $4 mil short of sending out enough salary.

Also, any trade that has JR Smith going out is probably just forum fodder. Denver isn't sending him out, and Philly probably wouldn't even bother asking for him.

Also, any trade that has us taking Korver is also not realistic. That's even more long term salary pushing us over the tax threshold. Does Allen want to make tax payments to get Kyle Korver? Doubt it, even if we subtract Dixon's outgoing contract.


----------



## ColoradoBlazerFan

I don't like this deal. Nene is too big of a health risk with too big of a contract. Korver is well...Korver. A known commodity but nothing special for sure.

I'd like to see us trade for something that fits better with our future plans. I mean how many people here really think that Nene and/or Korver will be a big part of the future? It's seems as if it's a trade just to trade and get a low 1st round pick.

Peace


----------



## dudleysghost

Nate McVillain said:


> I don't know, but my guess is that picks can be used to get other teams to take our bad contracts like Miles or Raef. Miles and a first round pick for an expiring contract might fly? I don't know.


Works for me. We probably couldn't get anyone to give us an expiring contract for that (unfortunately Isaiah Thomas no longer has the green light), but we could definitely get someone to give us someone marginally useful, which is way better than having 8mil/year in totally useless salary. If the net result of this trade is to convert Mags and Miles into Nene and anyone who can play, I think we've come out way ahead.


----------



## Trader Ed

dudleysghost said:


> It doesn't match. Nene is a BYC player, so his outgoing salary only counts for half of its actual value for matching purposes. This trade has Denver about $4 mil short of sending out enough salary.
> 
> Also, any trade that has JR Smith going out is probably just forum fodder. Denver isn't sending him out, and Philly probably wouldn't even bother asking for him.
> 
> Also, any trade that has us taking Korver is also not realistic. That's even more long term salary pushing us over the tax threshold. Does Allen want to make tax payments to get Kyle Korver? Doubt it, even if we subtract Dixon's outgoing contract.


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...7~1713~788~1707~498&teams=7~22~20~22~20~20~20

This works just fine DG


----------



## dudleysghost

Trader Bob said:


> http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...7~1713~788~1707~498&teams=7~22~20~22~20~20~20
> 
> This works just fine DG


Yeah, if you add Boykins to the deal the salaries match, but you're still leaving Denver and Portland both over the luxury tax threshold this year and next, by fairly wide margins. There's no way to know for sure, but I doubt that the owners of those teams are going to approve that.


----------



## azsun18

At first I was ok with the Nene trade, but after I have thought about it, I say no. His contract is too big for a guy who has not proven he can consistently play at a high level. The price is too high to get our hands on a mid to low first round pick. ESPn has Nene listed as the worst off season signing of last year. I can hear the media now, "when is Portland going to figure it out that high priced players is not the way to a championship.


----------



## Trader Ed

dudleysghost said:


> Yeah, if you add Boykins to the deal the salaries match, but you're still leaving Denver and Portland both over the luxury tax threshold this year and next, by fairly wide margins. There's no way to know for sure, but I doubt that the owners of those teams are going to approve that.



everthing seems to point to Smith instead of Boykins... but it works with Boykins. I can not get it to work with JR Smith unless others are in the loop. About $1.8 mil too much for Denver to take in

although I read they want to keep JR Smith


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

> At first I was ok with the Nene trade, but after I have thought about it, I say no. His contract is too big for a guy who has not proven he can consistently play at a high level. The price is too high to get our hands on a mid to low first round pick. ESPn has Nene listed as the worst off season signing of last year. I can hear the media now, "when is Portland going to figure it out that high priced players is not the way to a championship.


Nene is high priced, but if healthy he is worth his deal. He is a rarity in the league these days. A athletic, strong center who can score. He is an immeasurable upgrade over Joel. Not only is he much better scorer than anyone we have at Center, he is a much better defender. Yes, that includes Joel. Nene is a much better defender than Joel. He doesnt block as many shots, but when it comes to man-to-man defense Nene is a beast. Sometimes you have to roll the dice on a player, and when the guy is 24 its a healthy risk.


----------



## furball

The Blazer history tells us that they do not trade players with expiring contracts. That said, if the choice is between Nene' and nothing, I'll take Nene'.


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

I read on anoher board that the Blazers are not going to take Nene. They are scared by his big contract and knees. Some dude on Hoopsworld said we are not taking him on, and I also read that Patterson nixed taking on Nene in his quick chat. But, I dont necessairly think that means we are out of the deal. Jamaal and Juan for Korver and Joe Smith? I like it.


----------



## BIG Q

Jason Quick was just on the FAN. He said that the Blazers have been offered Joe Smith and a first for Mags. He said Portland is holding out for Korver, so they are more of a roadblock for Denver right now than a facilitator.


----------



## alext42083

BIG Q said:


> Jason Quick was just on the FAN. He said that the Blazers have been offered Joe Smith and a first for Mags. He said Portland is holding out for Korver, so they are more of a roadblock for Denver right now than a facilitator.


That is a great move by the Blazers. They hold the piece that Denver wants and Philly wants, and like Canzano said today in his piece, they have the upper hand to make the deal happen.

I'd love to have Korver on this team, filling it up from the SF spot. He'd be perfect in that role, possibly the one we thought Martell would take when he got more minutes.
And the guys on the FAN said Korver makes 24 mil over the next five years, which is a pretty good deal.
If the Blazers can somehow pull that off, that'd be ingenious.


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

Wow, we must really like Korver. Personally, I would rather have an expiring and 1st than Kyle. But the front office knows more about what this team needs than me.


----------



## GOD

I am not sure Korver can be had for that, and I worry that the 6ers will turn to a different trade. Mags for smith and a first (mid/late) would be a decent trade. But if we could swing korver, I would love it. ESPN said that the 6ers said that Korver was only going to be traded as a last resort for the 6ers,


----------



## Schilly

Quicks deal doesn't make any sense at all. Sure it does to us, an expiring for an expiring and apick...By why would Philly and Denver even include Portland?


----------



## Dan

Schilly said:


> Quicks deal doesn't make any sense at all. Sure it does to us, an expiring for an expiring and apick...By why would Philly and Denver even include Portland?


could be that the 76ers don't want Joe Smith back. They have already had him, iirc.


----------



## Sambonius

We're being offered Denver's 1st round pick or Philly's? Because if it's Philly's then I'd be all over that, they are going to have one of the 5 worst records in the league most likely.


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

No way are we being offered Phili.'s 1st rounder. Its either Denvers or Dallas's(Via. Denver).


----------



## Blazed

Trader Bob said:


> http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...7~1713~788~1707~498&teams=7~22~20~22~20~20~20
> 
> This works just fine DG


Actually it doesn't work. Philly has a full 15 man roster so they have to send out as many as they bring in.


----------



## MAS RipCity

How stupid are we? Smith and Mags are irrelivent because htey both expire and we would let either walk at the end of the year and we pick up another piece in a 1st rounder. Quick also said we wanted JR Smith too but prolly got laughed out of the building. Sure its nice to hold out, but we are getting a 1st rounder just for doing business...c'mon guys..make it a wrap.


----------



## wizmentor

furball said:


> The Blazer history tells us that they do not trade players with expiring contracts. That said, if the choice is between Nene' and nothing, I'll take Nene'.


I'd rather have nothing. It's not really Nene or nothing.
It's really 
Nene and nothing and nothing and nothing and nothing
for
8 mil and 9 mil and 10 mil and 11 mil

(approximately). I really, really like Nene as a player,
but I think his contract is too big. With the financial
difficulties the team has, I think they'll try to get a
pick.


----------



## ehizzy3

yeah i cant believe we didnt/havent done that deal yet.......you can trade nene later but you get a first rounder.......cmon kevin.


----------



## dudleysghost

Schilly said:


> Quicks deal doesn't make any sense at all. Sure it does to us, an expiring for an expiring and apick...By why would Philly and Denver even include Portland?


Yeah, that trade makes no sense. It would make sense if Magloire was actually an asset whose Bird Rights had as much value as a late first round pick, but let's be serious. He's had a decent few games but he's still not worth that. I call BS on this report from Quick, although if in some Bizarro world they actually did offer that, we'd have to take it.


----------



## BBert

So the current rumor is that we trade Magloire and get back Nene and Denver's 1st round pick? 

Last year I strongly advocated tying to get Nene -- before his big contract and when it was being reported that he was going to recover nicely from his surgery. Now? I have no way to know how he's doing health wise, so I've been a little leary of taking him on as this has been discussed over the past week. 

But really, if we screw around too long, as we have in the past (cough...Nash...cough), all we'll get out of Magloire is an expiring contract. Big deal. 

Magloire for Nene and Denver's 1st round pick? Do it yesterday. Heck, I'd trade him for the pick. A recovered Nene is worth 3 Magloires.

Thanks Uncle Paul.


----------



## Samuel

So:

In Portland's court: Magloire for Joe Smith & a first.
In Philly's court: Magloire for Korver, Joe Smith, and a first.
In Denver's court: Magloire for JR Smith, a pick, and Joe Smith.

Sounds like Portland is the only team that doesn't want this deal to go through.


----------



## ehizzy3

Blazers Have Trade Power
Dec 15 - By late afternoon Thursday, two league sources confirmed the offer of the Nuggets' 2007 first-round draft pick and Nene was still on the table. "If Portland wants to do this, it's there to be done," said one. Now, here's hoping the Blazers hold off, but stick around, and explore the league's interest in Jamaal Magloire.

espn.com nba trade rumours


----------



## Schilly

QUick said that absolutely we are in on the deal with Denver, and he says no if ands or buts one way or another Magloire will be dealt by the deadline.

He said the offer right now on the table from our perspective is this..

Magloire out

Joe Smith and a 1st rounder from Denver in.

As I poointed out above, from Philly and Denvers perspective, sending us Smith and a 1st rounder makes no sense. From our end, sure why not?


----------



## ehizzy3

i dont know why they arent doing it......its a first round pick!!!

btw im guessing denver has 2 first rounders, i dont know who they got one from but, would we be getting denver's or someone elses?


----------



## alext42083

rose garden pimp said:


> i dont know why they arent doing it......its a first round pick!!!
> 
> btw im guessing denver has 2 first rounders, i dont know who they got one from but, would we be getting denver's or someone elses?


It's either Denver's or according to nbadraft.net:

"Denver receives a first-round pick from Golden State. (Nikoloz Tskitishvili trade 022405) via Golden State receives a (protected) 2007 Dallas first-round pick. (Erick Dampier trade 082404)"

So it would be Dallas' "protected" first-round pick.
Either way, it won't be a very high pick.


----------



## ehizzy3

its still a first rounder that we could try and trade up even more with all those seconds we got. how many did we end up with?


----------



## Samuel

rose garden pimp said:


> its still a first rounder that we could try and trade up even more with all those seconds we got. how many did we end up with?


I think we have a maximum of 4, but it's likely we'll only end up with two (ours and Indiana's) with the others being pushed to next year.


----------



## alext42083

Throw in Magloire and one of Denver's picks for Philly's first-rounder this year, and they got themselves a deal.

Course, that'd never happen.


----------



## ehizzy3

Samuel said:


> I think we have a maximum of 4, but it's likely we'll only end up with two (ours and Indiana's) with the others being pushed to next year.


i def. think that if we get a first rounder in this deal then, we would try and move up.


----------



## zagsfan20

Trading for JR Smith would go against the teams philosophy of going for guys with character. Smith was dealt from New Orleans for repeated run-in's with Byron Scott...I also remember reading stuff about how the kid thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. He's 21 and just beginning to bust out in the league, why would Denver want him gone so quickly? There's obviously something a little fishy about that.


----------



## dudleysghost

zagsfan20 said:


> Trading for JR Smith would go against the teams philosophy of going for guys with character. Smith was dealt from New Orleans for repeated run-in's with Byron Scott...I also remember reading stuff about how the kid thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. He's 21 and just beginning to bust out in the league, why would Denver want him gone so quickly? There's obviously something a little fishy about that.


He was also quickly sent packing from Chicago. He's also benefitting from playing in a very high paced system with a team that gets him lots of open shots. The numbers look really big, but so did Quentin Richardson's in Phoenix. I think a lot of the bloom on the JR rose would come off if he were forced to play in a different system. Put me on a list, by myself if necessary, of people who don't have any desire to see JR Smith sent to Portland. He'd be a decent trade asset for us, but with how well he's doing in Denver and how poorly I think he'd do in Portland, it's just as well that he stays where he is.


----------



## Utherhimo

well i hope this ai trade is done soon


----------



## SheedSoNasty

Utherhimo said:


> well i hope this ai trade is done soon


Oh really?

You've just been saying that every day. Have patience.

Chances are, Portland won't even be a part of it.


----------



## Utherhimo

just bored with it just want it done and over with


----------



## Masbee

Schilly said:


> QUick said that absolutely we are in on the deal with Denver, and he says no if ands or buts one way or another Magloire will be dealt by the deadline.
> 
> He said the offer right now on the table from our perspective is this..
> 
> Magloire out
> 
> Joe Smith and a 1st rounder from Denver in.
> 
> As I poointed out above, from Philly and Denvers perspective, sending us Smith and a 1st rounder makes no sense. From our end, sure why not?


Make NO sense?

I can easily imagine the argument for Denver to do this. What do we know, assuming Denver pulls off a trade for AI?:

They will be in full-on win now mode.

Joe Smith (6.8mil) and Jamaal (8.3mil) are both ending contracts. That is equal.

We are assuming the pick is a late 1st rounder. 

In win now mode team's late first round picks usually languish on the bench. They often finds ways to get rid of them.

Keeping and using a pick will cost Denver another $750-$900k in guaranteed money, for a "wasted" roster slot and pushes them closer to the lux tax. They want to move it one way or another.

Joe Smith has been better (a bit, not a lot) in his career than Jamaal. That was then. This is now. And in the now Joe Smith is having his worst season in years. He is not fitting in at Denver. He is not getting many minutes. It appears he won't be much missed. Which is a surprise considering who is beating him out for those minutes.

Jamaal is a Center. Smith is not. Center's are rare. Forwards are not.

Denver is looking ahead to a playoff run. The had a goal of the Conference finals without AI. Imagine their goal with him.

With AI and Carmello the last thing the team needs is a softish PF with a jump shot (Smith).

Denver is looking ahead to playoff matchups. Who will bang for rebounds, guard (and foul hard); Tim Duncan? Yao? Boozer? Dirk in the post? Dampier? Diop? I am not saying Jamaal is the answer to any of those guys. He isn't. But he is a much better option than Joe Smith.

Denver gets a bruiser as a rental for the 07 playoff run. Then they just let him walk for cap relief if Kenyon Martin looks ready to play for them 07-08. Perfect.


----------



## dudleysghost

Masbee said:


> Make NO sense?
> 
> I can easily imagine the argument for Denver to do this...


You make a good case of why Denver might want to make the swap. Maybe Mags would be more useful to them, and maybe they really don't need that lat 1st round pick.

But, I really don't see how the Iverson trade can work without a larger expiring contract going to Philadelphia. Denver has to match salaries, and they have to do it with contracts that the Sixers wouldn't hate. The only expiring they have is Smith, so if Portland is included and somehow got him, Magloire would be going to Philly, who really wouldn't have much use for him. At least, that is unless Philly and Denver come to an agreement on a trade that involves two of the following; Nene, Miller, Camby, or K-Mart plus a smaller contract, going to PHI for AI, but that doesn't seem likely to me.


----------



## Masbee

dudleysghost said:


> You make a good case of why Denver might want to make the swap. Maybe Mags would be more useful to them, and maybe they really don't need that lat 1st round pick.
> 
> But, I really don't see how the Iverson trade can work without a larger expiring contract going to Philadelphia. Denver has to match salaries, and they have to do it with contracts that the Sixers wouldn't hate. The only expiring they have is Smith, so if Portland is included and somehow got him, Magloire would be going to Philly, who really wouldn't have much use for him. At least, that is unless Philly and Denver come to an agreement on a trade that involves two of the following; Nene, Miller, Camby, or K-Mart plus a smaller contract, going to PHI for AI, but that doesn't seem likely to me.


Good point. I was only commenting on the limited question of why Denver would want Jamaal vs Smith and be willing to pay the cost of a 1st to make it happen.

So, Quick's comments remain a mystery. Garbled, mis-heard rumors?

Maybe, what is going on is a side deal if the AI trade falls through. Denver says to Portland, if we don't get AI by the deadline, and you still have Jamaal, we will swap you Smith and a pick for your trouble.

If so, at least they have a starting price for Jamaal to work with when talking to the other GM's.

Or, could be Denver said, if in the unlikely event we can work a deal for Iverson and we still have Smith...

The rumors keep saying Philly wants nothing but cap room. But why? The FA market doesn't look that great. Are they really going to get better players (and most importantly, on cheaper contracts) then Andre Miller or Camby or Nene? Not based on Billy King's history.

If Philly does drag this out enough, they could have enough time to work through the possiblities to realize Andre Miller is a decent player. If they get him and one of the big contracts, and demand JR Smith, and ship back one of their long deals (Korver), might not be as bad as they think. Continue to tank the season. Add talent from the 2007 draft and go from there.


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## Utherhimo

then there is portland hearing in from other teams wanting magilore maybe starting a small bidding war for jamaal between the teams.

the denver deal could land us: 
on nbadraft.net
our pick: #7 Yi Jianlian 7-0 230 PF China 1987
denvers 1st pick: #21 Corey Brewer 6-8 185 SF Florida Jr.
2nd pick: #28 Rudy Fernandez 6-6 172 SG Spain 1985

not too shabby plus we could use those to trade up but getting rudy would be nice  and Yi is a pretty good pf!


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## ehizzy3

Utherhimo said:


> then there is portland hearing in from other teams wanting magilore maybe starting a small bidding war for jamaal between the teams.
> 
> the denver deal could land us:
> on nbadraft.net
> our pick: #7 Yi Jianlian 7-0 230 PF China 1987
> denvers 1st pick: #21 Corey Brewer 6-8 185 SF Florida Jr.
> 2nd pick: #28 Rudy Fernandez 6-6 172 SG Spain 1985
> 
> not too shabby plus we could use those to trade up but getting rudy would be nice  and Yi is a pretty good pf!


omg i would love that draft........i love corey brewer that's who i want to draft in the first place......and if you add yi jianlian that would be almost as good as broy and lamarcus


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## Trader Ed

Masbee said:


> Make NO sense?
> 
> I can easily imagine the argument for Denver to do this. What do we know, assuming Denver pulls off a trade for AI?:
> 
> They will be in full-on win now mode.
> 
> Joe Smith (6.8mil) and Jamaal (8.3mil) are both ending contracts. That is equal.
> 
> We are assuming the pick is a late 1st rounder.
> 
> In win now mode team's late first round picks usually languish on the bench. They often finds ways to get rid of them.
> 
> Keeping and using a pick will cost Denver another $750-$900k in guaranteed money, for a "wasted" roster slot and pushes them closer to the lux tax. They want to move it one way or another.
> 
> Joe Smith has been better (a bit, not a lot) in his career than Jamaal. That was then. This is now. And in the now Joe Smith is having his worst season in years. He is not fitting in at Denver. He is not getting many minutes. It appears he won't be much missed. Which is a surprise considering who is beating him out for those minutes.
> 
> Jamaal is a Center. Smith is not. Center's are rare. Forwards are not.
> 
> Denver is looking ahead to a playoff run. The had a goal of the Conference finals without AI. Imagine their goal with him.
> 
> With AI and Carmello the last thing the team needs is a softish PF with a jump shot (Smith).
> 
> Denver is looking ahead to playoff matchups. Who will bang for rebounds, guard (and foul hard); Tim Duncan? Yao? Boozer? Dirk in the post? Dampier? Diop? I am not saying Jamaal is the answer to any of those guys. He isn't. But he is a much better option than Joe Smith.
> 
> Denver gets a bruiser as a rental for the 07 playoff run. Then they just let him walk for cap relief if Kenyon Martin looks ready to play for them 07-08. Perfect.


so we are kind of buying a late 1st round pick for $1.5 mil 

and a cheaper salary to pay for the remainder of the year

seems kind of stupid to me unless we get another player via sending out another besides mags


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## Masbee

Trader Bob said:


> so we are kind of buying a late 1st round pick for $1.5 mil
> 
> and a cheaper salary to pay for the remainder of the year
> 
> seems kind of stupid to me unless we get another player via sending out another besides mags


Huh?

Keep things simple.

The Blazers have total salary of $58.3mil, Jamaal earning $8.3mil.

The Nugs have total salary of $56.8mil, Joe earning $6.8mil.

They make a mid-season trade of those two players. Now the Blazers total salary drops to $56.8mil, Nugs goes up to $58.3mil. At the end of the season, assume each player walks, and each team has an identical salary of $50mil (assuming no other player changes or raises yet occur). Which is exactly what they would have had if no trade had happened.

Unless a team is dealing with who is on their roster the day the contracts are tallied for purposes of avoiding the lux tax, I don't think it means anything.

There is no cost of $1.5mil to the Blazers that I am aware of. They will pay less in salary the rest of the way. Either Denver let's the Blazers pocket the savings as inducement to make the trade, or there will be "cash considerations" to make both parties happy.


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## Schilly

Masbee, the reason QUicks version doesn't make sense is simple. Philly wants expiring deals. JOe Smith and Jamaal are 2 expiring deals. If Denver sends out Smith then they need to send out about 7-8 mill more to be able to take Iverson back, which means Philly would be taking in a non-expiring contract for about that value. ..SO if that were the case why wouldn't Denver simply send Philly Joe Smith the pick and the additional contracts to make it work. IN other words in Quicks rumor, sure it makes sense for us we save a half a mill or so for the duration of the season and get a 1st rounder. Seems like Portland benefits from getting what Philly wants and Philly ends up getting what they didn't want.

Quicks not always in the loop, see Mark Ivaroni.


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