# About Vince Carter



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Someone here or where ever has said Vince is working hard right now and try to kill a lot of critics next season. But my question is we all know that Vince has all the tools on the offensive end to be one of the best guard in the NBA if not the best, but can he actually play GREAT defense? Sure, he has proven that he can played solid defense here and there. But can he actually shut down good offensive players like the way Pippen, Jordan did? Any thoughts?


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

Probably


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## untitled (Jun 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Vinsanity *
> Probably


nice reply buddy, u seriously jus tryin to get the post count up high huh?

going to penny's question. From what I have heard he has been working on all aspects of his game. Offense to Defense. He said he can't wait til the season starts so he can show what he is made of. I think he is very capable of playing very legit defense. I mean as you said you can see flashes of him trying to stop someone on D but it isn't consistent and I completely agree. Again, look back to his college days. He was an amazing defender. He go too involved in the offense in Toronto that he forgot what he was doing on defense often looking confused. But he can certainly play, I hope to see him play defense too...


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## SLiM9287 (Jul 2, 2002)

ME PERSONALLY I THINK CARTER WILL COME BAK STRONGER THEN EVER IN EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME. I THINK HE WILL GET BACK TO BEING CONSIDERED ONE OF LEET GUARDS IN THE NBA. I THINK HE WILL JOIN THE TOP GUARDS OF THE LEAGUE LIKE KOBE TMAC.


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

Well obviously he has the athletic ability to play defense. Now, does he have the desire,fundamentals and technique of defense down??? That is the question. We shall see. If I had to put my money down I would say Vince will be back next year with a vengeance and playing pretty darn good D as well. This is bad news for the Knicks and the rest of the Eastern conference but this is how i see it.


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## Patrick (Jun 10, 2002)

I am convinced that Carter will come back better then ever, I've seen him in the interview and he seems really focused and mature about his problems from last season. He's accepted the critisism and has a very humble attitude.

He's one of my favorite players in the NBA, when he doesn't slack off on defense how can you not love the guy? simply awesome player. Nothing but love!


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## hOnDo (Jun 26, 2002)

IMO, look for the Raps' to make a run for the Eastern Conference title.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Fordy74 *
> Well obviously he has the athletic ability to play defense. Now, does he have the desire,fundamentals and technique of defense down??? That is the question. We shall see. If I had to put my money down I would say Vince will be back next year with a vengeance and playing pretty darn good D as well. This is bad news for the Knicks and the rest of the Eastern conference but this is how i see it.


I agree! I think Vince is coming back with a vengeance and something to prove! Watch out for the rest of the league is what I'm thinking. Awesome gifts and incredibly unique player, IMNSVHO. He can shoot the 3, which only Paul Pierce (amongst the premier swingmen) can do with great consistency. Kobe & Tmac sure don't measure up on the 3 ball like Vince & Pierce do.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *TheRifleman *
> Kobe & Tmac sure don't measure up on the 3 ball like Vince & Pierce do.


1. Paul Pierce- .404%
2. Vince Carter- .387%
3. Tracy McGrady- .364%
4. Kobe Bryant- *.250%*

Looks like Kobe is the only one that doesn't measure up.......


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> 
> 
> 1. Paul Pierce- .404%
> ...


Those must be last year's stats! You are right, Kobe just doesn't hit the 3 as well as other swingmen according to those stats.


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## TO4LIFE (Jun 13, 2002)

Although I know I am biased....I still think Vince is going to DESTROY all of his critics. In the first two weeks he may play like crap, but once he gets used to playing in the NBA again....the NBA will never be the same again.

I think TO will make it to the eastern finals this year...then next year after a big trade or a big signing with our cap situation being a little better we make it to the finals.


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## PhatDaddy3100 (Jun 16, 2002)

Knowing Vince and watching so many things about him on T.V., he will come back next year better than ever. He will agian become the most talked about player and the NBA and the most exciting to watch. I know he is going to come back better than ever in all aspects of the game, just by looking at him. My only question is, is the leg injury going to affect his jumping ability? The thing Vince Carter is most known for is his ability to jump and completely throw down a dunk. Will he be able to do that as well this year?


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by *sime *
> 
> 
> nice reply buddy, u seriously jus tryin to get the post count up high huh?


what u want me to write a hundred word essay....is there a rule??..why dont u just keep ur No Profanity to yourself and stop talkin smack

Please don't do that anymore. - Penny Hardaway


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> 
> 
> 1. Paul Pierce- .404%
> ...


playoffs:

1. bryant - .378
2. mcgrady - .313
3. pierce - .288

of course, jordan shooting below 30% 8 times in his career didn't slow him down too much.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *kflo *
> 
> 
> playoffs:
> ...


And? This was never about the playoffs or Michael Jordan...... Kobe didn't shoot well from 3 during the season. That's the basis of this discussion.

If you want to talk about 3point% in the playoffs, at least mention the McGrady only shot 16 of them.... That is hardly even enough attempts to gauge his true abilities....


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

One thing I do know about Vince is that he proved he can shoot the 3 anytime - regular season or playoffs (2001)! He holds the playoff record for 8 3s in the first half and tied Rex Chapman for most 3s in a playoff game with 9.

Vince did that against stellar defense, when he was healthy. I expect we'll all get to see his sweet shooting touch again!


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

Anyone with Carter's mental and physical capacity has the potential to be a great defender. There are three major aspects of great defense.

Side to side movement -- Carter has it
Wingspan and speed to block shots and get in front of guys -- Carter has it
Great Vision and intelegence to read quick changes of direction by the ball handler in order to keep in step -- Carter has it


I don't think VC was necessaraly not physically capable of good defence last year, i think he was just way too relaxed on the defensive end to the point where he was often giving up more points than he scored.

The way Carter is working right now, he could realy make a huge improvement in his play and give his team the magic again.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> 
> 
> And? This was never about the playoffs or Michael Jordan...... Kobe didn't shoot well from 3 during the season. That's the basis of this discussion.
> ...


who said it's the basis of discussion? you're the only one who mentioned their %'s this past season.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Guys, I don't mind the topic changed into something else if it is a good discussion without getting personal. I am not saying you guys are but just letting you all know in advance. Thank You! - Penny Hardaway


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Hey, Kflo, do you have an opinion about Vince Carter's D. I like to hear from you about this. Thanks.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Penny Hardaway *
> Hey, Kflo, do you have an opinion about Vince Carter's D. I like to hear from you about this. Thanks.


I know you directed this to kflo, but I also have an opinion on the defense by Vince. He is not only quite able to defend, but did it in college and has done it in some games against some big time scorers these last couple years, so he can do it.

One has to remember that there are a few more swingmen of note in the east, so he has had to face them much more often that someone in the west has had to face good offense. If Vince can become more consistent in his defensive efforts against those teams that have premier swingmen, he'll lose that "not as good a defender as other swingmen" label he has had dumped on him.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *kflo *
> 
> 
> who said it's the basis of discussion? you're the only one who mentioned their %'s this past season.


What? TheRifleman brought up the 3-point shooting. I brought up this past season's %age because the idea of comparing 3point %age in the playoffs is pointless, especially when there are so few attempts......


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## Shadows (Jun 8, 2002)

Back to the Vince Carter defense or lack of.

I watched alot of Toronto Raptor game's in my time and to pin-point why Vince is not a great defender boggles my mind.

Sting brought up the fact that Carter has good side movement and wingspan which is key to most good defenders. It takes more tho to be known as a good defender then just that. A player must have lightning quick judgement of which way his oppenent is moving. I actually think Vince trys to hard to play D and try's to make the impossible play weather it be a steal or block rather then playing his man and making sure he doeset score. Vince is often caught in the situation where he goes for the steal but does not get it leaving his oppositon a good 2 step lead on Vince when they get the ball.

Once a player has beat Vince to his first step and is ahead of him Vince just stop's and wait's for AD or Keon to stop the play instead of following the defender.

Alot of people say Vince is a bad defender but when someone compares his D they put him aganist Kobe, T-Mac, Iverson and Pierce just because he is not as good as they are covering his man does not mean he is a bad defender he's just not as good as them. I wouldent say Vince is a great defender or bad defender he's better then most but not as good as the best.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> 
> 
> What? TheRifleman brought up the 3-point shooting. I brought up this past season's %age because the idea of comparing 3point %age in the playoffs is pointless, especially when there are so few attempts......


paul pierce took 104 3's in the playoffs. kobe took 132 all season. it doesn't seem pointless, then, to mention pierce's 3's in the postseason, if you're going to mention kobe's 3's in the regular season (kobe, btw, hit 33 all season, then 22 in the playoffs). mcgrady didn't have an opportunity to take to many, you are correct there. but kobe and pierce's 3's in the playoffs certainly seem relevant to me, not pointless. 

on carter's d, penny, he's a decent defender. i don't think he's a great on ball defender, even when he's into the game. too often, he has mental lapses, though. he can have an impact on the defensive end, though, with his ability to get steals and block shots. if he can keep his defensive intensity, he can be a good defender. although i think kobe and tmac are superior on ball defenders.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *kflo *
> 
> 
> paul pierce took 104 3's in the playoffs. kobe took 132 all season. it doesn't seem pointless, then, to mention pierce's 3's in the postseason, if you're going to mention kobe's 3's in the regular season (kobe, btw, hit 33 all season, then 22 in the playoffs). mcgrady didn't have an opportunity to take to many, you are correct there. but kobe and pierce's 3's in the playoffs certainly seem relevant to me, not pointless.


Yeah, but you have to understand that Pierce struggled in the playoffs. That was clear to anyone. Mainly because it was his first playoff experience. To me, that means that his stats in these playoffs are not a good indicator of his true abilities.... Their regular season statistics give a better indicator on how they perform, night in, night out on a regular basis.....


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

But KC, there were a lot of times Pierce played against scrub teams which logically have worse defenders in the regular season. Sure Pierce was struggled in the playoffs but a lot of the misses was because of the good defense in the playoffs. And maybe the reason he had to put up a lot of threes because he couldn't drive to the basket, slashing in the lane?


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

BTW, Kflo, I totally agreed Kobe and T-mac are better on the ball defenders and I was just basically asking if Carter will improve his man-to-man defense because he said he is working hard this summer to kill some critics. 

But no one said a damn thing about Vince's D until Mr. Jordan stood up and said something. lol, I think Michael was jerlous of Vince's dunking ability?


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Penny Hardaway *
> But KC, there were a lot of times Pierce played against scrub teams which logically have worse defenders in the regular season. Sure Pierce was struggled in the playoffs but a lot of the misses was because of the good defense in the playoffs. And maybe the reason he had to put up a lot of threes because he couldn't drive to the basket, slashing in the lane?


So what. There are bad teams and good teams in the NBA. His performance in the playoffs was typical of someone who has never been there before. How would you explain Kobe's low 3 point shooting %age during the regular season? 

I am struggling to grasp your point......


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> 
> 
> So what. There are bad teams and good teams in the NBA. His performance in the playoffs was typical of someone who has never been there before. How would you explain Kobe's low 3 point shooting %age during the regular season?
> ...


I may have trying to argue into something else here, or I am not actually arguing Kobe has the same 3 point shot as Pierce.

I was trying to tell having a better 3 point shot is not necessarily a better player. I mean I will take Kobe over Paul Pierce any day of the week. lol, I fail to make an arugment here, lol.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

What? This was never about who was the better player......


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> What? This was never about who was the better player......


I know, I don't like Paul Pierce at all. Just like the way you dislike Kobe. So maybe I was trying to find a way to downplay Pierce. lol.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

I don't dislike Kobe......


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> I don't dislike Kobe......


I thought you mentioned yourself u hate Kobe?


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Penny Hardaway *
> 
> 
> I thought you mentioned yourself u hate Kobe?


No, I think he's overrated. Other people call me a "hater"


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> 
> 
> No, I think he's overrated. Other people call me a "hater"


I am not a Kobe hater either, although I think he is a fantastic scorer, I believe his defense is overrated, as it is common knowledge that the west is not overrun with swingmen that are premier like the east is.

The only really decent swingmen Kobe has to guard
are Finley and ....and...I cannot think of another in the west.

(ones that shoot the ball more than 10 times a game -meaning don't tell me that Christie is a premier shooting guard - he doesn't do his job, which is to "SHOOT", make his defender have to play adequate defense!!!) 

The east has:

Vince,
TMac, 
Ray Allen, 
Eddy Jones, 
Spreewell, 
Stackhouse, 
Houston,
Reggie
Paul Pierce

I guess that makes my point about how the eastern swingmen have to play a lot more individual defense than those in the west do.....which means that Vince is a far better defender than given credit for being.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

To be fair to Kobe, he often has to guard opposing point guards. There are more than a few quick point guards there.

I think Kobe D was great in 1999-2000. He didn't have to do a lot on the offense so that enable him to spend a lot of energy on the defense. But Jordan was just at another level.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Kobe doesn't "often" have to guard opposing point guards. He does it sometimes, but I still agree with TheRifleman. Kobe's defense is overrated.....


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> 
> 
> If you want to talk about 3point% in the playoffs, at least mention the McGrady only shot 16 of them.... That is hardly even enough attempts to gauge his true abilities....


Well Kobe doesn't shoot very many threes in the regular season either... so why are you trying to slam him?-you try to put down Kobe in every post-even if it has nothing to do with the topic. I think it is pretty obvious you don't like Kobe


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> I don't dislike Kobe......


You don't dislike him-but you think he is overrated and you bash him every chance you get-


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## SLiM9287 (Jul 2, 2002)

1st u guys say he is overated then u say his defense is overated can u name a guard in the league who has better d? and i dont mean cuz they get more steals or blocks i mean on the ball d


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KBStAt *
> 1st u guys say he is overated then u say his defense is overated can u name a guard in the league who has better d? and i dont mean cuz they get more steals or blocks i mean on the ball d


Bruce Bowen, Alvin Williams, Devean George, Paul Pierce.
They are at least about the same good if not bette than Kobe.


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## SLiM9287 (Jul 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Penny Hardaway *
> 
> 
> Bruce Bowen, Alvin Williams, Devean George, Paul Pierce.
> They are at least about the same good if not bette than Kobe.


can u tell me one thing bruce bowen did to stop kobe in the playoffs this year, and alvin williams cmon man lets try to be serous, i do think devean george plays great D but i dont know if its up to kobes and if it was as good as him phsicaly i still think kobe has the mental edge if he was guardin some one with 5 sec lefts.And i think peirce is more concerned about scoring and not as much on his D but im not sayin he dosnt hav good D


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Wilt_The_Stilt *
> 
> 
> Well Kobe doesn't shoot very many threes in the regular season either... so why are you trying to slam him?-you try to put down Kobe in every post-even if it has nothing to do with the topic. I think it is pretty obvious you don't like Kobe


Who is trying to slam Kobe? I am sticking up for T-Mac. I think it's pretty obvious that you follow me around and try to force your opinions onto me. I don't dislike Kobe. I think he is overrated. I hardly bash Kobe every chance I get because then I would be here 24/7 seeing as there are an insane number of topics involving him.....

Please, leave me alone.


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