# Shaq shocked Lakers would even consider trading Kobe



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Shaq went on record today in response to scumbag's announcement that he would be willing to trade: 3 time champion, 9 time all star, 2 time scoring champion, 7 time All Defensive Player and 2 time All Star MVP Kobe Bryant (just thought I'd remind people how non-replacable he really is).

Here's his thoughts and a link to the article:
"I guess it's business before loyalty. But, wow. He said that?"

"Anyone can be traded, but mine was different because I walked into the office and demanded a trade," O'Neal said. "I don't take loyalty lightly. If you tell me you're going to do something, I expect you to do it. And then when you change your mind without telling me, that means you're disloyal so we can't be down anymore."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-shaq12oct12,1,2627140.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=1&cset=true


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

Huh? Shaq decided to chime in on this topic? Okay then. The next time he actually says something cogent and logical will be the first.


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

Shaq probably didn't decide to "chime in," chances are he was asked be a reporter. And we know the media, if he said something like "no comment", Shaq vs. Kobe 2.0 would spawn.


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

UD40 said:


> Shaq probably didn't decide to "chime in," chances are he was asked be a reporter. And we know the media, if he said something like "no comment", Shaq vs. Kobe 2.0 would spawn.


You're probably right, I just find Shaq's comments so amusing. He's still talking about what happened in LA 4+ years ago, he's like a broken record.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Yeah^

Also, not like it matters, but I thought Kobe ran him out of town? Now the Diesel is saying he asked for a trade?

My head is spinning here with all the inconsistency, best not to think about the past I guess.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

koberules24 said:


> Shaq went on record today in response to scumbag's announcement that he would be willing to trade: 3 time champion, 9 time all star, 2 time scoring champion, 7 time All Defensive Player and 2 time All Star MVP Kobe Bryant (just thought I'd remind people how non-replacable he really is).
> 
> Here's his thoughts and a link to the article:
> "I guess it's business before loyalty. But, wow. He said that?"
> ...


How outraged were you when Mitch said he would be willing to trade Shaq? Huh?

Probably not even a quarter this mad.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Jamel Irief said:


> How outraged were you when Mitch said he would be willing to trade Shaq? Huh?
> 
> Probably not even a quarter this mad.


Well, considering you are not outraged at all and the fact that you say you hate Kobe makes your point all the less relevant. As a die hard Laker fan I was shocked and hurt when the Lakers dealt Shaq. However, like most Laker fans who are more outraged now, I realize how full of crap Buss and his counterparts are when they have tried to make these deals. Most Laker fans (including myself) foolishly trusted Buss, much like Kobe, on "his" track record based on the fresh memory of recent dynasties that were rebuilt rather quickly. And to be frank Shaq had a lot less to complain about when he demanded a trade than Kobe has now. Clearly Laker fans were disheartened at the fact that he would rather play for another team than not get a raise from $26 million to $30 million.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

koberules24 said:


> Well, considering you are not outraged at all and the fact that you say you hate Kobe makes your point all the less relevant. As a die hard Laker fan I was shocked and hurt when the Lakers dealt Shaq. However, like most Laker fans who are more outraged now, I realize how full of crap Buss and his counterparts are when they have tried to make these deals. Most Laker fans (including myself) foolishly trusted Buss, much like Kobe, on "his" track record based on the fresh memory of recent dynasties that were rebuilt rather quickly. And to be frank Shaq had a lot less to complain about when he demanded a trade than Kobe has now. Clearly Laker fans were disheartened at the fact that he would rather play for another team than not get a raise from $26 million to $30 million.


Shaq made demands, asked to be traded and got dealt.

Kobe made demands, asked to be traded and...

The irony is that Shaq was non-replaceable, yet kobe stood by and let him walk, now Kobe wants to be dealt because they couldn't replace the non-replaceable player!


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Shaq made demands, asked to be traded and got dealt.
> 
> Kobe made demands, asked to be traded and...
> 
> The irony is that Shaq was non-replaceable, yet kobe stood by and let him walk, now Kobe wants to be dealt because they couldn't replace the non-replaceable player!



Yeah... It looks like Kobe has so much power I'm sure he could have made Buss keep him rather they wanted to or not. 



Rather one agrees with Buss or not, the fact remains is that Buss is going to do what he wants to do rather Kobe or Shaq like it. His comments pretty much said so.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Jamel Irief said:


> Shaq made demands, asked to be traded and got dealt.
> 
> Kobe made demands, asked to be traded and...
> 
> The irony is that Shaq was non-replaceable, yet kobe stood by and let him walk, now Kobe wants to be dealt because they couldn't replace the non-replaceable player!


The entire point of this discussion is that Jerry Buss is going to do whatever he wants, not what's smart or right. You prove my point by simply pointing out that nothing was done. Hell, management bent over backwards for Shaq when they brought in Karl Malone and Gary Payton (Shaq's buddies) instead of taking the conventional wisdom of signing someone like PJ Brown and not benching Derek Fisher (the one player who kept Kobe and Shaq together all those years). Even your idol Robert Horry admits Kobe had no power in the Shaq situation (if you watched his interview last season). Considering that management wouldn't even trade Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd to help Kobe and Phil I highly doubt Shaq was victimized.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Yeah... It looks like Kobe has so much power I'm sure he could have made Buss keep him rather they wanted to or not.
> 
> 
> 
> Rather one agrees with Buss or not, the fact remains is that Buss is going to do what he wants to do rather Kobe or Shaq like it. His comments pretty much said so.


We all know if Kobe wants something he will try his hardest to get it. Just look at the tantrum he threw back in June. 

I doubt he sat back and realized he was powerless and was going to let Shaq and Buss duke it out, especially when this is the same primmadonna that asked the Clippers to move to Anaheim when they were courting him as a FA.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> We all know if Kobe wants something he will try his hardest to get it. Just look at the tantrum he threw back in June.
> 
> I doubt he sat back and realized he was powerless and was going to let Shaq and Buss duke it out, especially when this is the same primmadonna that asked the Clippers to move to Anaheim when they were courting him as a FA.


I don't think he asked the Clippers to move, I think they offered to play some of their home games at Anaheim as a greater incentive for him to sign. 

That being said, the whole Kobe-Shaq thing is kind of sketchy, but its hard to argue that Kobe was against the trade, considering he wanted his own team and made it quite clear that he did.

I'm not a big fan of Jerry Buss, he and his new management turned a dynasty to a perennial first round exit and missed out on many deals that would have made the team much better. However, Kobe asked for a trade, what is he to do?


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## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)




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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Uh...does everyone already forget Dr. Buss has givin LA 8 championships?!? While it would suck if he lied to Kobe I think he deserves a get out of jail free card. He has only made us the most dominant basketball team in over the last 25 years! All you kids that started following the Lakers during the three-peat need to calm down and be thankful!!!


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## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)

Shaq is amazing!

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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Man we gotta get over the Shaq thing. It happened essentially because Buss wanted him gone and now wants Kob gone because he embarrased his son and Mitch. 

Shaq called out Buss and it was a wrap Kobe does the same and its a wrap. 

No other speculation really matters. 

Buss wasn't gonna pay Shaq he lied to him about that, and now he lied to Kobe about building a winner around him when he knew all along that he wanted to go cheap keep payroll down and use Kobe for a circus act. 

He tricked Kobe when he hired PJ but Kobe see's through that now. 

So I expect Kobe to be traded in the next 2 weeks or sooner. 

we traded away 2 of the greatest ever for spare parts.We are gonna be like the Celtics for 20 years maybe longer. 

We may never be a title contender again. 

There are teams who because of bad management never have won a title. Its not our birthrigh here. 

I hate what Buss has done to this once proud franchise. 

Gonna be a damn shame that because of how things ended new ownership may have to retire Shaq's and Kobe's number way past their playing days until the Buss's leave. 

Because I believe both men will hold grudges for a very long time.


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> We may never be a title contender again.
> 
> There are teams who because of bad management never have won a title. Its not our birthrigh here.
> 
> I hate what Buss has done to this once proud franchise.


Saying that the Lakers might never again contend for a title is a bit dramatic, but I completely agree with you that Lakers fans are spoiled in every way because of all the great teams we have been fortunate enough to have had throughout the years. Jerry Buss is pretty much the same guy he always was, the only difference is that now he doesn't have Jerry West to make things run smoothly and the entire ship is taking on water. He's always been concerned with one thing: money. Just like any other professional sports owner. If the product is yielding a profit, the owner is content. Right now Buss is still seeing the money roll in due to the team's loyal fanbase that continue to buy tickets and merchandise at an alarming rate. It won't be until there is no more Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, or jam-packed luxury boxes that he will finally be forced to improve things. I would almost be content to see Kobe go just to watch it all blow up in this idiot's face. I never thought I would say this, but I would rather have Donald Sterling as the owner of the Lakers right now. The horror!! uke:


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Id go with Steinbrenner.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

jazzy1 said:


> Man we gotta get over the Shaq thing. It happened essentially because Buss wanted him gone and now wants Kob gone because he embarrased his son and Mitch.
> 
> Shaq called out Buss and it was a wrap Kobe does the same and its a wrap.
> 
> ...


I just get sick of Kobe fans not holding him accountable and putting everything on someone else.

First it was Shaq's fault, then Phil's fault, then Malone's fault, then Chucky Atkins' fault, then Mitch's fault... now Buss is the scumbag.

Kobe is a former spoiled child that grew into a demanding little ***** that is hard to get along with.


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> I just get sick of Kobe fans not holding him accountable and putting everything on someone else.
> 
> First it was Shaq's fault, then Phil's fault, then Malone's fault, then Chucky Atkins' fault, then Mitch's fault... now Buss is the scumbag.
> 
> Kobe is a former spoiled child that grew into a demanding little ***** that is hard to get along with.


Pretty much, I agree with this assessment. Personally, I found both of them to be morons for not being able to get along in the first place. Shaq was lucky enough to have Dwyane Wade when he landed in Miami, but Kobe has been left with a bare cupboard, which of course he brought on himself. Now his frustration is showing and things are starting to tear apart in Laker land. But, while I in no way whatsoever support or condone Kobe's recent behavior, it's hard to be thrilled about the idea of shipping him off for an assortment of spare parts and draft picks. 

I hold no ill will towards Shaq, that's nothing more than a chapter in the history books now. What I'm really concerned with is our apparently brain-dead owner who is stirring things up yet again for no good reason. If Kobe gets moved, so be it. We as fans have absolutely zero control in the matter, but if it does go down as badly as it seems it might there will definitely be a line drawn in the sand. On the bright side, there will be no more Shaq/Kobe controversy for Lakers fans to banter about, instead it will likely be a debate about whom to choose with the #3 pick in next year's draft.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> Man we gotta get over the Shaq thing. It happened essentially because Buss wanted him gone and now wants Kob gone because he embarrased his son and Mitch.
> 
> Shaq called out Buss and it was a wrap Kobe does the same and its a wrap.
> 
> ...


this is some scary ****


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

jazzy1 said:


> Man we gotta get over the Shaq thing. It happened essentially because Buss wanted him gone and now wants Kob gone because he embarrased his son and Mitch.
> 
> Shaq called out Buss and it was a wrap Kobe does the same and its a wrap.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I feel like crying.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

DaRizzle said:


> Uh...does everyone already forget Dr. Buss has givin LA 8 championships?!? While it would suck if he lied to Kobe I think he deserves a get out of jail free card. He has only made us the most dominant basketball team in over the last 25 years! All you kids that started following the Lakers during the three-peat need to calm down and be thankful!!!


Be thankful for what? *Jerry Buss didn't give the us anything. Jerry West did( big difference)*. Jerry Buss, the Hollywood producer was not the one scouting the likes of Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant, West was. While Jerry Buss was getting blowjobs in the owner's box West was down the hall quietly at work building the next dynasty. And I highly doubt band wagon jumpers would busy themselves on Lakers blogs 24/7.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Jamel Irief said:


> I just get sick of Kobe fans not holding him accountable and putting everything on someone else.
> 
> First it was Shaq's fault, then Phil's fault, then Malone's fault, then Chucky Atkins' fault, then Mitch's fault... now Buss is the scumbag.
> 
> Kobe is a former spoiled child that grew into a demanding little ***** that is hard to get along with.


Yes and your so mature by putting it all on Kobe's shoulders.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

koberules24 said:


> Be thankful for what? *Jerry Buss didn't give the us anything. Jerry West did( big difference)*. Jerry Buss, the Hollywood producer was not the one scouting the likes of Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant, West was. While Jerry Buss was getting blowjobs in the owner's box West was down the hall quietly at work building the next dynasty. And I highly doubt band wagon jumpers would busy themselves on Lakers blogs 24/7.


Actually, West wasn't the GM when Magic was drafted. Neither was Buss the owner.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

koberules24 said:


> Be thankful for what? *Jerry Buss didn't give the us anything. Jerry West did( big difference)*. Jerry Buss, the Hollywood producer was not the one scouting the likes of Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant, West was. While Jerry Buss was getting blowjobs in the owner's box West was down the hall quietly at work building the next dynasty. And I highly doubt band wagon jumpers would busy themselves on Lakers blogs 24/7.


Lets see...Dr. Buss was willing to have the balls to pay a 7 year/123mil contract(Shaq), the biggest contract in the NBA at the time. He was willing to go along with the risk of getting a 17 year old. See, Jerry West did all the scouting for players because THAT WAS HIS JOB! He was HIRED by Dr. Buss to do that, just wanna make sure you realize that. Dr. Buss had the same effect as Tiger Woods to golf. Because his product was(and is) so great it made people care and in turn everyone in the NBA gets bigger paydays. Go Lakers! Screw Kobe! I hope he does good for the LAKERS and helps the LAKERS win a championship! I am a Lakers fan first. Players will come and go, the Lakers will be constant as long as the NBA exsists.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

DaRizzle said:


> Lets see...Dr. Buss was willing to have the balls to pay a 7 year/123mil contract(Shaq), the biggest contract in the NBA at the time. He was willing to go along with the risk of getting a 17 year old. See, Jerry West did all the scouting for players because THAT WAS HIS JOB! He was HIRED by Dr. Buss to do that, just wanna make sure you realize that. Dr. Buss had the same effect as Tiger Woods to golf. Because his product was(and is) so great it made people care and in turn everyone in the NBA gets bigger paydays. *Go Lakers! Screw Kobe! *I hope he does good for the LAKERS and helps the LAKERS win a championship! I am a Lakers fan first. Players will come and go, the Lakers will be constant as long as the NBA exsists.


I can't, for the life of me, understand how some so-called Laker fans are putting up an issy-fit (sp?) because Buss said Kobe wasn't untradable.

WTF?

Kobe Bryant is what he is: the most gifted basketball player on the planet. But LA is NOT the franchise to strong-hold. If Kobe wants to leave, fine. If Kobe wants to stay, fine. But yeah, he is TRADEABLE. He was asking for it in June, for Christ's sake.

I know many around here are too young to recolect, but Kobe is no Magic Johnson. Kobe is no Kareem Abdull-Jabbar. Kobe is no Shaquille O'Neal. Kobe is no Jerry West.

This franchise will move on with or without Kobe Bryant.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

yeah screw kobe.. let's get us some good talent in turn though. is javaris pans out, then maybe we need a good big man..


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

afobisme said:


> yeah screw kobe.. let's get us some good talent in turn though. is javaris pans out, then maybe we need a good big man..


Don't we have that in Bynum?


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

PauloCatarino said:


> I can't, for the life of me, understand how some so-called Laker fans are putting up an issy-fit (sp?) because Buss said Kobe wasn't untradable.
> 
> WTF?
> 
> ...


Jesus, a guy in Portugal gets it!!! Why can't the people in LA get it?!?


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> I just get sick of Kobe fans not holding him accountable and putting everything on someone else.
> 
> First it was Shaq's fault, then Phil's fault, then Malone's fault, then Chucky Atkins' fault, then Mitch's fault... now Buss is the scumbag.
> 
> Kobe is a former spoiled child that grew into a demanding little ***** that is hard to get along with.



Shaq was a lazy sack of ****. He should have been traded after the toe comment and company time, regardless if we had Kobe or not, because at $30 million and decliningg shape and game, the team was going to win a title. It seems you care more about keeping your favorite players than winning despite any decline in their game. I like Kobe on the team because he increases our chances of winning. If he had a history of injury problems, like Tmac, I would have no problem cutting him if he took up a lot of cap space.

No "Kobe fan" ever blammed Phil for anything. Phil likes playing mind games but I never once recall a Laker fan that liked Kobe more than Shaq blamming anything on Phil. Maybe you should stop putting things in other peoples mouths that never happened. The only problems with Phil, were complaints about him not making in game adjustments, but it was never in the context of Kobe.

Malone made a comment about his wife. She's hot, but if someone said that about my wife, I'd be mad too. But this was after Malone wanted to retire. They two never had problems on the court, and no Kobe fan ever blammed him for anything. On the contrary, I think almost all of the guys that liked Kobe more than shaq, liked having Malone on the team a lot as well.

Atkins is a chucker that plays bad defense. People disliked him for the same reason they disliked Smush, it had nothing to do with Kobe's relationship with him. Atkins is a peon, what he thinks doesn't matter, this is a superstar driven league. It's why Jordan and KG can punch teammates in practice and get away with it and be admired. Atkins should be thankful.

If you like Mitch as our GM, I don't know what else to say. The guy is a complete fool, the only good move he has ever made was his recent choice to draft Critt, and even then it was probably an accident. He has more non-moves that would have significantly helped our team than I can count. He put a deadline on Shaq trade for reason which decreased our bargaining power. Again, you let blind hate get in your way of thinking

Buss is a good owner in the sense that he understands that the NBA is a star driven league. You win with superstars that propel, not a bunch of "team guys." This isn't the NFL. The team with the most top heavy talent wins, not the team with the most balance one through twelve. However, if he lied to Shaq and Shaq wanted to be traded because of it. You can't blame Kobe. If he lies to Kobe about trying to contend instead of six year rebuilding plan, you can't blame Kobe on that. If his son is a ******* and leaks rumors to the media about Kobe, you can't expect Kobe to support his son.

All NBA stars are prima donnas, if you can't accept that, you should stop watching the NBA. I like Kobe because he is talented on the court, he is ultra competitive, and he works hard to get even better. Most importantly, there are few players that give a team a better chance of winning it all (Duncan, maybe Lebron, and maybe Wade just because he gets a lot of calls).


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

KennethTo said:


> Shaq was a lazy sack of ****. He should have been traded after the toe comment and company time, regardless if we had Kobe or not, because at $30 million and decliningg shape and game, the team was going to win a title. It seems you care more about keeping your favorite players than winning despite any decline in their game. I like Kobe on the team because he increases our chances of winning.


Then you should love Shaq. He was more responsible for the rings than Kobe and the Lakers would be a lot better team today if they never traded him.

This is why I love Shaq, I was thirsty for a ring and he almost singlehandedly delivered the first one in the most dominating season I ever witnessed from a player. I will always be loyal because of that. And that means when FA primmadonnas say they don't want to be sidekicks it sours my feelings towards them. I get flat out pissed when they turn around and lie saying they want to win at all costs 3 years later.

Hey, but if Kobe puts the Lakers on his back this year and delivers a season like Shaq in 2000 I will forgive Kobe and tell Buss to do whatever he wants.

Again the "I like players that help us win" argument goes out the window when you hate Shaq. We aren't doing jack with Odom and Brown.

BTW you misinterpurted my post. All those people I listed having publically complained about Kobe, except for Mitch. That was my point.

I don't see anyone complaining about Odom, Malone, Fisher, etc.... Kobe doesn't get along with people, period.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

DaRizzle said:


> Lets see...Dr. Buss was willing to have the balls to pay a 7 year/123mil contract(Shaq), the biggest contract in the NBA at the time. He was willing to go along with the risk of getting a 17 year old. See, Jerry West did all the scouting for players because THAT WAS HIS JOB! He was HIRED by Dr. Buss to do that, just wanna make sure you realize that. Dr. Buss had the same effect as Tiger Woods to golf. Because his product was(and is) so great it made people care and in turn everyone in the NBA gets bigger paydays. *Go Lakers! Screw Kobe!* I hope he does good for the LAKERS and helps the LAKERS win a championship! I am a Lakers fan first. Players will come and go, the Lakers will be constant as long as the NBA exsists.


There's your agenda and Jamel's.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Jamel Irief said:


> Then you should love Shaq. He was more responsible for the rings than Kobe and the Lakers would be a lot better team today if they never traded him.
> 
> This is why I love Shaq, I was thirsty for a ring and he almost singlehandedly delivered the first one in the most dominating season I ever witnessed from a player. I will always be loyal because of that. And that means when FA primmadonnas say they don't want to be sidekicks it sours my feelings towards them. I get flat out pissed when they turn around and lie saying they want to win at all costs 3 years later.
> 
> ...


Yes, the Lakers would have a better team with Shaq........that's why Darko Milicic has a higher fantasy rating. Phil Jackson was the difference maker for the Lakers, not Shaq. When has Kobe ever complained about Lamar or any of those guys. The only thing he's ever said is exactly what we all agree on that his supporting cast simply isn't good enough. He hasn't had problems getting along with any of them.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

remember when he talked S about andrew bynum... with fans? and how he's so rough/tough with his teammates?


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

afobisme said:


> remember when he talked S about andrew bynum... with fans? and how he's so rough/tough with his teammates?


He talked about how ridiculous it was that they wouldn't trade him for Jason Kidd. There was never any "trouble" between them. Kobe immediately apologized and Bynum understood. God forbid he gets flustered when Kwame Brown drops the ball for the millionth ****ing time. Do you think Jerry West would've hesitated for a second if Jerry Krause offered Michael Jordan straight up for a young second year Kobe?


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

I will say it's fun watching Shaq and Kobe fan boys go at it. I've never hid the fact that I'm a fan of Kobe's on court game and talents. But people who trash Kobe then defend Shaq are just as bad. Both of the players were spoiled brats, that thought they were bigger than the Laker's organization itself. Both of them had there flaws. Shaq was lazy, didn't want to earn the 30 million, etc. And Kobe who brings court drama into the NBA, and is so anti-social and egotistical he never takes blame for anything upon himself. 

I'm happy that fat turd is gone. He is NOT the beast he was when he single handled brought the Lakers to glory. And at this point I wouldn't mind seeing Kobe get sent out either. I'd love to just enjoy watching the Laker's basketball without all the drama that guys like Kobe and Shaq bring. Between "Give my my money" and "I want to be traded because I cant win without another all-star", boohoo. Both cry baby's don't deserve to wear a Lakers uniform.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> I will say it's fun watching Shaq and Kobe fan boys go at it. I've never hid the fact that I'm a fan of Kobe's on court game and talents. But people who trash Kobe then defend Shaq are just as bad. Both of the players were spoiled brats, that thought they were bigger than the Laker's organization itself. Both of them had there flaws. Shaq was lazy, didn't want to earn the 30 million, etc. And Kobe who brings court drama into the NBA, and is so anti-social and egotistical he never takes blame for anything upon himself.
> 
> I'm happy that fat turd is gone. And at this point I wouldn't mind seeing Kobe get sent out either. I'd love to just enjoy watching the Laker's basketball without all the drama that guys like Kobe and Shaq bring. Between "Give my my money" and "I want to be traded because I cant win without another all-star", boohoo. Both cry baby's don't deserve to wear a Lakers uniform.


I am a Shaq fan, but a Laker fan first. Most of these Kobe fans are just Kobe fans first.

Lakers won when Shaq was here. A horrible season would be defined as 54 wins and a second round exit.

That would be a success in the Kobe era. But Darko is a better fantasy player, whatever that means.

I already said if Kobe takes us to a title this year I will let him make whatever demands he wants.

He's losing partly because of Shaq leaving. So he should just shut the hell up.

Yet those two cry baby's delivered three rings. I'm sure you enjoyed those.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Yet those two cry baby's delivered three rings. I'm sure you enjoyed those.



Yeah. Kobe was one of those two? Or does that argument only work for Shaq fanboys?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Yeah. Kobe was one of those two? Or does that argument only work for Shaq fanboys?


When did I say he was not?


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> When did I say he was not?



Your post was suggesting that I should be thankful that those two cry babies at least gave me a ring. Since I'm sure I loved them both greatly back then. However, if that were the case then you should love Kobe now. As he was just as much apart of the titles in the end, than Shaq was.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Your post was suggesting that I should be thankful that those two cry babies at least gave me a ring. Since I'm sure I loved them both greatly back then. However, if that were the case then you should love Kobe now. As he was just as much apart of the titles in the end, than Shaq was.


Here is where you are struggling to comprehend my posts.

I want to see winning Laker basketball, when someone delivers winning Laker basketball I forgive a lot of shortcomings like being fat or a primmadonna.

When a player stunts winning Laker basketball by having legends should be loyal and key players traded I turn on them. Because, again, I like watching winning basketball.

Despite what Shaq haters say, Kwame Brown is not a better center and we would not have won less games with Shaq instead. We might not of won a title, but look where we are now!

Oh and as for the contract, he deserved it. You know how much revenue Shaq generated for the Lakers?


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

koberules24 said:


> There's your agenda and Jamel's.


Yes..I AM A LAKER FAN. Not a Kobe fan. YOU ARE A KOBE FAN. In no way am i denying his talent but I root for my TEAM not the one player. I enjoy watching Kobe play but I want the Lakers to win. I would trade Kobe in a second if I knew it would produce more wins with the player(s) the Lakers received in return. If you don't agree with that the you are not a Laker fan, you are a Kobe fan and he just happens to play on the Lakers. Go hang out on KB24.com, Im sure you will find mindless supporters over there that will agree with you.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Here is where you are struggling to comprehend my posts.
> 
> I want to see winning Laker basketball, when someone delivers winning Laker basketball I forgive a lot of shortcomings like being fat or a primmadonna.
> 
> ...



What have you done for me lately? You just said so yourself. If they win now, you give them your praise. Where exactly does that end? I know you were not exactly on board with Shaq leaving and of course joining the Lynch Kobe bandwagon when he was being blamed for the big man leaving. However, Kobe had done a lot for you at that time to. But you choose to pick someone who was doing less and less each year, while making far more. I don't care how much money Shaq made the Lakers, as I'm one of the people who pay to watch him play. It's not like he had been doing it for free. He was making Millions, and if you want to keep on making millions you should earn it. Thats why even the Heat who had promised him the "big" extension, had contract negotiation delays, and ended up paying him less. Because he isn't worth 30 million a year anymore. 

The only thing Kwame Brown and Shaq have in common is they both are/were on the Lakers. Other than that, if someone else on this board was drawing a comparison between the two I'd love for you to give me a reference on that. I don't believe that anyone alive could possibly be that stupid. I'd love for you to prove me wrong though. 

Shaq in his prime was the best big man that ever played in the NBA in my opinion. No one will ever be more dominate. The problem is, a five year contract for what he was becoming would have been devastating to the Lakers. If he was playing the lackluster ball he did last season on the Lakers and they not making it past the first round, would you still be his fan? Even if the Lakers were not winning? Or would his not doing anything for you lately mentality make you automatically a hater of his? 

See... I don't think you would change your mentality even if he had the worst season in NBA history. Because you still love what he did for the laker's his first year. That's why your a hypocrite. Don't take that the wrong way most people who are a fan of sports and sports idols are hypocrites. They pick and choose who they love, spend most of there time justifying why they believe what they do even though it normally contradicts itself. 

Truth is, you love Shaq. Nothing wrong with that. You can't stand Kobe. And winning has nothing to do with it. When you admit your bias you will probably feel better.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> What have you done for me lately? You just said so yourself. If they win now, you give them your praise. Where exactly does that end? I know you were not exactly on board with Shaq leaving and of course joining the Lynch Kobe bandwagon when he was being blamed for the big man leaving. However, Kobe had done a lot for you at that time to. But you choose to pick someone who was doing less and less each year, while making far more. I don't care how much money Shaq made the Lakers, as I'm one of the people who pay to watch him play. It's not like he had been doing it for free. He was making Millions, and if you want to keep on making millions you should earn it. Thats why even the Heat who had promised him the "big" extension, had contract negotiation delays, and ended up paying him less. Because he isn't worth 30 million a year anymore.
> 
> The only thing Kwame Brown and Shaq have in common is they both are/were on the Lakers. Other than that, if someone else on this board was drawing a comparison between the two I'd love for you to give me a reference on that. I don't believe that anyone alive could possibly be that stupid. I'd love for you to prove me wrong though.
> 
> ...


Most of this would of been valid if I didn't develop the "screw Kobe" mentality until he lied and said all he cares about is winning and wants to be dealt.

Would I of loved Shaq if he became horrible? As long as he wasn't having good players kicked off the roster, then yes.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Most of this would of been valid if I didn't develop the "screw Kobe" mentality until he lied and said all he cares about is winning and wants to be dealt.
> 
> Would I of loved Shaq if he became horrible? As long as he wasn't having good players kicked off the roster, then yes.



Honestly, Kobe, Shaq, And Jerry Buss all said Kobe had nothing to do with Shaq leaving the roster. But you can continue believing otherwise if it supports your arguments. 

This entire thread you contradicted yourself a bunch of times. Thats the beauty of being a sports fan, and a fan boy of something. As long as you believe it in your own mind, your never wrong.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I actually agree with many of your posts. Just not these ones. 

:cheers:


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> I will say it's fun watching Shaq and Kobe fan boys go at it. I've never hid the fact that I'm a fan of Kobe's on court game and talents. But people who trash Kobe then defend Shaq are just as bad. Both of the players were spoiled brats, that thought they were bigger than the Laker's organization itself. Both of them had there flaws. Shaq was lazy, didn't want to earn the 30 million, etc. And Kobe who brings court drama into the NBA, and is so anti-social and egotistical he never takes blame for anything upon himself.
> 
> I'm happy that fat turd is gone. He is NOT the beast he was when he single handled brought the Lakers to glory. And at this point I wouldn't mind seeing Kobe get sent out either. I'd love to just enjoy watching the Laker's basketball without all the drama that guys like Kobe and Shaq bring. Between "Give my my money" and "I want to be traded because I cant win without another all-star", boohoo. Both cry baby's don't deserve to wear a Lakers uniform.


I wanted to rep you because I agree both players are to blame... 
Shaq and Kobe both didn't want to play with each other, Kobe was gonna be a FA and Lakers secured him by giving all their attention to him...

but I kinda dont really agree with anything else you said...

The drama is what it is... this is Los Angeles and any news will be blown up to a dramatic episode, covered coast to coast, and never let go... that's part of dealing with being in LA... it's like being a Yankee...


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Honestly, Kobe, Shaq, And Jerry Buss all said Kobe had nothing to do with Shaq leaving the roster. But you can continue believing otherwise if it supports your arguments.
> 
> This entire thread you contradicted yourself a bunch of times. Thats the beauty of being a sports fan, and a fan boy of something. As long as you believe it in your own mind, your never wrong.
> 
> ...


Buss is the most responsible for Shaq being a Heatian. I said that back then and still believe it today. I don't blame Mitch at all, as he was just a pawn for Buss.

Kobe's main fault was that he did nothing to prevent it when "all he cares about is winning."


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Truth is, you love Shaq. Nothing wrong with that. You can't stand Kobe. And winning has nothing to do with it. When you admit your bias you will probably feel better.


Pretty much the bottom-line for most Kobe haters. I mean, who doesn't know that Shaq got NVE or EJ kicked off the team, or that Shaq wanted Kobe traded too? Yet Kobe is faulted for wanting players traded and for possibly wanting Shaq off the team too? Just hilarious in its contradiction.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

EHL said:


> Pretty much the bottom-line for most Kobe haters. I mean, who doesn't know that Shaq got NVE or EJ kicked off the team, or that Shaq wanted Kobe traded too? Yet Kobe is faulted for wanting players traded and for possibly wanting Shaq off the team too? Just hilarious in its contradiction.


NVE maybe, but that was more Del Harris. NVE is my favorite Laker of all time and if I hate Harris with a passion to this day because of that. The only Lakers I have hated more than Harris were Malone and Greg Foster. EJ, hell no. Shaq kept saying he wanted a thug at PF and EJ was the main trade bait at the time. That's the only way I see you blaming him.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Then you should love Shaq. He was more responsible for the rings than Kobe and the Lakers would be a lot better team today if they never traded him.
> 
> This is why I love Shaq, I was thirsty for a ring and he almost singlehandedly delivered the first one in the most dominating season I ever witnessed from a player. I will always be loyal because of that. And that means when FA primmadonnas say they don't want to be sidekicks it sours my feelings towards them. I get flat out pissed when they turn around and lie saying they want to win at all costs 3 years later.
> 
> ...


My argument does not go out the window because "I like players that help us win." Shaq was a winner, but after the toe surgery incident he became a loser. What are you going to do with an overweight center with foot problems that makes no effort in staying in shape? Especially if he eats up $30 million in cap space. You are implying that keeping Shaq would have increased our chances of winning, which is true for winning more regular season games BUT NOT FOR THE TITLE.

When I say I want players that increases our chances of winning, I AM referring to a title, I'm not a clipper fan, winning 10 more games in the regular season means nothing to me if there isn't a title, I'd be just as dissatisfied. Shaq with his attitude at that age wasn't going to do that. Signing him on for a larger extension given that he was completely out of shape would have completely eliminated any chance of winning a title for the duration of any time he was on the Lakers. The lakers didn't make a mistake in trading Shaq, they made a mistake in not trading him earlier when he still had more value.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

DaRizzle said:


> Yes..I AM A LAKER FAN. Not a Kobe fan. YOU ARE A KOBE FAN. . .


This is where it get's stupid. Who is to say that's it's better to be a team fan then a player fan? It's seems like when somebody throws out "I'm a TEAM fan" it gives them some since of higher loyalty or some bull****. 

NOTE. None of you guys (including me) are TRUE LAKER FANATICS anyway because true fanatics will love everything lakers(all players and organization) and care less about any other team including their players.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

The One said:


> This is where it get's stupid. Who is to say that's it's better to be a team fan then a player fan? It's seems like when somebody throws out "I'm a TEAM fan" it gives them some since of higher loyalty or some bull****.
> [/SIZE]


I dont think anyone is saying its better to be a fan of the team or the player.

But if you are a fan of a team, that does denote a higher sense of loyalty. . . to that team anyway. For example, in this situation, if you are a Kobe fan, then if he gets traded, you will root for whatever team he plays on to win. If you are a Laker fan, when Kobe gets traded you will still say **** the (his new team name here) and root exclusively for the Lakers.


I am a fan of Kobe's, but I am a Laker fan first and foremost. If Kobe gets traded I will still love the lakers and hate whatever team he is on, even if I do say to myself, "damn that guy can ball."

The fact is The Lakers were good before Kobe, they have been good with Kobe, and they will be good after Kobe is gone. Laker Love!:cheers:


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

elcap15 said:


> The fact is The Lakers were good before Kobe, they have been good with Kobe, and they will be good after Kobe is gone. Laker Love!:cheers:


I can live with that:cheers:


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