# Boston vs Minnesota



## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

I think tonight's game will be interesting. Welsch and LaFrenz may make cameo appearances, and it will be interesting to see if they can hold their own against a good team without Walker.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Boston leading 44-26!!! LaFrentz 7 pts in 6 minutes. 

KG is 2/12 from the field!


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Well, so far Ainge looks like a genius. Pierce has been awesome, and Baker has played very well.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

well, is Pierce relishing being THE man for the Celts or what?

A near triple-double already halfway into the 3rd Q. Boston blowing out Minny 58-31


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

It is now conclusively proven that Fred Hoiberg cannot guard EWill.


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## luciano (Aug 16, 2002)

Is Baker so much as resembling his old self? He has 11 rebs


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

The team played great, Paul was great, and if we can continue to play like this, well lets just say everyone will need to be tripple scouting this team...


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

This was a very nice team effort. Good interior defense, and Banks actually showed me something, particularly on defense against Cassell. He also threw a nice alley oop to Kedrick. Baker rebounded well, and LaFrenz played a good all-around game. EWill showed why he is an underrated offfensive player.

They were helped by the fact that the wolves couldn't hit the broadside of a barn in the first half, but even so, it was a nice game from the C's.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Cool beans! I missed the game, but it sounds like the new look Celtics gave a very good accounting. Did Minnesota's starters play decent minutes, or were they emptying the bench?


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Garnett and Cassell played qute a bit. Szerbiak played, but not well. At the end, they had Ebi, the high school kid, Madsen and other scrubs in the game.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

How did Welsch and James do


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

James played well. He really is a pretty good pickup-- not a great shooter but does everything else well. Welsch played in the second half and looked ok. He only hit one shot, but he showed that he knows how to play the game.


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

LaFrentz, Celtics Roll to Win  




> LaFrentz made 3-of-5 shots, grabbed five rebounds and took a couple of charges.


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## LifeOfTheParty (Oct 13, 2003)

You guys are gonna be a good team. Top 6 in East easily. You guys completely blew us out. I twasn't even close. I worry about us sometimes, even if it's a preseason game. Good luck the rest of the seasonb, Pierce looks a top 10 player. And the trade gets you a decent big man. Like I said, top 6 team.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LifeOfTheParty</b>!
> You guys are gonna be a good team. Top 6 in East easily. You guys completely blew us out. I twasn't even close. I worry about us sometimes, even if it's a preseason game. Good luck the rest of the seasonb, Pierce looks a top 10 player. And the trade gets you a decent big man. Like I said, top 6 team.


dude very gracious quotes. thanks. here's to minnesota taking down the lakers.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

I know it's still only one preseason game, but if this is a taste of things to come, then I'm much more comfortable with this trade. I will not trash Walker. He gave his all here, and I thank him for his effort and heart. However, after watching the team tonight, it looks as if a cloud has been lifted. They played very loose on offense and very tight on defense. After a poor shooting first quarter, it was a joy to watch. Pierce nearly had a triple-double in 30 minutes. He was amazing out there. If the other players had been more prepared for his passes, he would have easily gotten several more assists. He got everyone involved. He made Baker look great on offense. All the way down the roster, players looked more comfortable and were playing as a team. Of course, there were bumps because this was the first game without Walker, but it looked a lot more coordinated than I expected. LaFrentz put up good numbers and played hard in 19 minutes. Battie was disappointing. He did almost nothing. Perhaps it's because he knows he's probably next on the chopping block. Banks showed some flashes of brilliance. He went coast to coast on one play and drove past four guys on the way. I would've liked to have seen more of Welsch, but he didn't look bad in his 10 minutes. 

I know they probably aren't going to play like this every night, but it seems like 2 things could've happened when Walker left. Either they got down and became lost on the floor or they came together as a team. I think the latter will happen. I liken it to when Drew Bledsoe was injured and Tom Brady stepped in. The team could no longer rely on a playmaker to take on all the responsibility to make things happen, so to make up for it, they were forced to play better as a team, and the rest is history. Of course, I don't expect the Celtics to win a championship this year, but I don't see them crying over the loss of Walker. And it doesn't look like Pierce is taking all the scoring responsibility upon himself. He took shots when they were there, but more often than not, he made plays. 

Well, I think I'm getting too excited over one preseason game, so I'll stop. I've been crushed before when I got my hopes up. It would be nice if I could see more Mavs games (without paying of course  ) It'd be great if both the Celtics and Walker succeeded.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

after watching that game im convinced the celtics will dominate the east.. the only team in the west im cocnerned about is the lakers but i think raef lafrentz can nuetralize shaq so the finals wil be a toss up..


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Keith Closs</b>!
> after watching that game im convinced the celtics will dominate the east.. the only team in the west im cocnerned about is the lakers but i think raef lafrentz can nuetralize shaq so the finals wil be a toss up..



Whoa nelly, let's calm down. Dominate the east, how about we wait till the season starts. Everyone was all sad one day and really high the next. I would like to see the final Preseason game first to see what O'Brien's rotation will look like. I want to know who will be playing where and what the bench will look like.

Temper your enthusiasm because after all it was just a preseason game. But like I said before, this is a good trade for the C's because they finally get the ball out of Walker's hands.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


did you see the game? they dominated, pierce is great lafrentz is a top 3 center, brown will be a superstar, baker will be an all star and banks is the next marbury.

I dont think youre a celt fan if youre not pumped about this season youre a FRAUD.


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## luciano (Aug 16, 2002)

settle down..... I think you might be over-reacting there......


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Keith Closs</b>!
> 
> 
> did you see the game? they dominated, pierce is great lafrentz is a top 3 center, brown will be a superstar, baker will be an all star and banks is the next marbury.
> ...


I saw the game, and yes, I'm excited as shown by my post above, but I think you're making some huge predictions based on a single game. The only thing for certain is the "Pierce is great" comment. LaFrentz could be a top 3 center. Brown could be a superstar. Baker will probably not be an All Star, but in the East, anything is possible. Banks could be the next Marbury. 

Pierce is definitely great, though. I don't think people will balk at the comparisons to Kobe and T-Mac so much after this season. I think he could rack up several triple-doubles this season, and that's pretty impressive for a guard. Only Kidd can do that on a consistent basis.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Whoa people calm down*

Ok people calm down, it was *ONE PRE-SEASON GAME*. I've been very vocal about my dislike of the trade and that I don't think we got near fair value. That said I did like some of what I saw last night but it was a pre-season game, players like Mark Madsen and Fred Hoiberg played A LOT. Let's calm down a little here and be realistic!!! I only saw the 2nd half of the 3rd quarter and all of the 4th quarter so from what I saw here is my take....

Paul Peirce - He is every bit as good as T-Mac, many would never have thought that bc he had another all-star to play off of, he doesn't now and will have to pick it up and I think he will and everyone will realize FINALLY how great he really is. He did everything well last night.

Raef Lafrentz - I was very impressed with his passing, some of the assists we lost from Antoine will be made up here. I also like that he has a very high shooting percentage and as a big guy can knock down a 3. He seems very comfortable with the team and resembled McHale in his uniform ha ha! I do still think he's soft on the boards though and not a real banger, that said, we are in the East and not the West so maybe it won't be as much of an issue, I do see where the "soft" title comes from though.

Vin Baker - He played b4 I tuned in so I have nothing to say except that the announcers said he was phenomenal and the fact he got 11 rebounds in such short playing time tells me Vinny is BACK!

Marcus Banks - He's learning. He can penetrate that is for sure and he can pass some great dishes, I think he's starting to learn the game and my GOD is he fast!! He's also not intimidated by anyone. The downside is he definately is out of control a lot and that's where the turnovers are coming from, he's almost too fast for himself sometimes. I also thought he was getting whipped by Cassell on the defensive end like he was a fly that Cassell simply brushed out of the way. We've heard he is a good defensive player though so hopefully this is just an adjustment to the NBA game.

Eric Williams - Well, I was very surprised with how well he played. He put up some good points and at one point seemed to be scoring at will and was very happy with that fact. He may end up fitting in better than many thought, he's getting the running game now.

Walter McCarty - Wow, this is not the offense for him. I didn't see the whole game so maybe in the 1st half he was better but when I saw him he looked like he was in the way. He needs to pick it up bc we need his contributions and he looked terrible out there.

Kedrick Brown - His game is definately picking up. He's the only one on the team who I think can really keep up with Banks speed wise. He still looks like a baby out there but he can play and I hope he gets minutes bc he can definately help us with our scoring, he's not intimidated this year like in the past. 

Jiri Welsch - He only played 10 minutes and I know he hasn't even practiced with the team yet so take this for what it's worth, he did not impress me. He looked lost, but I'm sure he was since he just got here. 10 minutes with no practice time can't tell me much so I'm gonna try to reserve judgement but one thing I say is that he is NOT a point guard. With experience he may become a good back up for Paul at SG or he could play SF but he is not a PG, seems to have a nice shot though. 

Tony Battie - I don't know what he did in the first half but in the second he did nothing AT ALL! He may be disgruntled at rumors right now but if he's not going anywhere he needs to get his game back, quick!

Mark Blount - He only played a few minutes that I watched and was not impressive. He may also be disgruntled bc he definately will lose a lot of playing time unless Battie is traded bc with Raef, Vin, Perkins, Battie, Hunter and McCarty along with him there are only so many minutes to go around.

Jumaine Jones - DNP (at least not when I watched)

Kendrick Perkins - I LOVE THIS KID!!! He didn't play much but what I saw I loved. He's always looking for the ball and he knows what to do with it when he gets it. He may not always finish but that will come. He's already CALLING for the ball! The only down on him last night was that he seemed to be running after someone took a shot instead of looking to rebound but his his strength is rebounding so I think he's just trying to work on some other spots of his game. He doesn't look like a kid out there at all!

Brandon Hunter - Only saw a few minutes of him, made a nice shot and grabbed a nice one under the basket. Didn't see enough of him though to make an analysis, I think he's the odd man out right now.

Rusty LaRue - Garbage minutes, made a nice shot, defends well but he's gonna get cut anyway.

Mike James - He's not bad not great. Does everything adequately, nothing great. Is in control unlike Banks but doesn't bring the excitement. I didn't see the first half though so he may have shown more then.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Whoa people calm down*



> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> 
> Marcus Banks - He's learning. He can penetrate that is for sure and he can pass some great dishes, I think he's starting to learn the game and my GOD is he fast!! He's also not intimidated by anyone. The downside is he definately is out of control a lot and that's where the turnovers are coming from, he's almost too fast for himself sometimes.


Banks actually only had 2 turnovers. I thought he played much more under control than in the previous games while not sacrificing his speed. If he learns where his teammates are going to be, he will be a pain in the *** for a lot of defenses. If he plays under control, he will be a nightmare to defend. In the preseason, he's always played better with the veterans, but without Walker on the floor, he looks even better. He knows he has to run the offense, and he doesn't have to worry about Walker calling for the ball. He's definitely raw, but I think by midseason, he could be a real factor. I can see him playing alongside Welsch. If the team is dedicated to passing, then that combination could help get easy baskets for people while Pierce is on the bench.


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## bujabra (Jun 14, 2003)

> Raef Lafrentz - I was very impressed with his passing, some of the assists we lost from Antoine will be made up here.


Might have picked up some moves from Nash!  



> Vin Baker - He played b4 I tuned in so I have nothing to say except that the announcers said he was phenomenal and the fact he got 11 rebounds in such short playing time tells me Vinny is BACK!


Me = Excited!  



> Eric Williams - Well, I was very surprised with how well he played.


I thought he might have been the odd man out...guess not! 



> Walter McCarty - Wow, this is not the offense for him.


Me = Very Worried  



> Jiri Welsch - He only played 10 minutes and I know he hasn't even practiced with the team yet so take this for what it's worth, he did not impress me.


Disturbing since he was the one Ainge traded for (barring LaFrentz)  



> Tony Battie - I don't know what he did in the first half but in the second he did nothing AT ALL!


TRADE!!! 



> Mark Blount - He only played a few minutes that I watched and was not impressive.


Patience!:yes: 



> Jumaine Jones - DNP


Old news! 



> Kendrick Perkins - I LOVE THIS KID!!!


ME TOO!


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Keith Closs</b>!
> 
> 
> did you see the game? they dominated, pierce is great lafrentz is a top 3 center, brown will be a superstar, baker will be an all star and banks is the next marbury.
> ...


They dominate what I saw (I stopped watching at 9 because the West Wing was on), and Pierce is great. After that...you're going a bit too far. LaFrentz could be a top three center in the east (Zydrunas, Curry, Magloire, Ratliff, Zo make for some tough competition). Brown could be a Richard Jefferson, I wouldn't call him a super star though, but if he gets his shot, he will be very good. Baker won't be an all-star, with what's going on in his life, he's like one of the Euro vets in their NBA rookie year. Think about it, he's a whole new man, new body, clear head, new system, new teammates, sober, he's played in the league before, but its been years since he's been in shape. Banks played a good game, but Marbury already? I don't know. He's going to be good once he figures it out.

I'm excited to have basketball back on the TV. I'm not calling this team the one to get number 17 though. A lot went into this game beyond the Celtics playing very well. Olowokandi didn't play. Wally was awful. That first quarter was just as much about Minnesota playing terrible ball as it was the Celtics playing a good half. I will say though, I do feel quite a bit better about this trade though. I'm still not a huge fan of it because I love Antoine, but really looks like its going to be a very interesting team to watch.

They sort of remind me of this season's Red Sox. They have the star (Pierce obvious). I know the Red Sox had three, but they also have 25 guys so lets roughly divide here. After the star, they have a bunch of solid players and some question marks. Needless to say, I'm more than a little interested.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Whoa people calm down*



> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> 
> 
> Marcus Banks - He's learning. He can penetrate that is for sure and he can pass some great dishes, I think he's starting to learn the game and my GOD is he fast!! He's also not intimidated by anyone. The downside is he definately is out of control a lot and that's where the turnovers are coming from, he's almost too fast for himself sometimes. I also thought he was getting whipped by Cassell on the defensive end like he was a fly that Cassell simply brushed out of the way. We've heard he is a good defensive player though so hopefully this is just an adjustment to the NBA game.
> ...


1. Actually I thought Banks' defense was significantly better than what I saw against Detroit and NJ. He was in the proper defensive position and he made Cassell work for his shots. Cassell made a few, but missed a few also. Banks also did not commit any dumb reach-in fouls. 

2. I don't agree about Welsch. He played 8 out of his 10 minutes at sg and has been with the team for about 5 seconds, so I think it's too early to judge his ability to play the point. He has good handles, good lateral mobility (for a 6-7 guy) and plays with his head up. He moves without the ball and is quick enough to take his man off the dribble. He is another one of those large Euro combo guards, in the mold of Marko Jaric or Zoran Planinic.

3. James played very well in the first half. He is a good all-around player. He's hard-nosed, too, like Erick Strickland. I'm not sure why Riley let him go.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*My two cents*

Once again, LOVE THE TRADE.

Mr. Sister is right=We looked very loose on offense.

White Rhino is right=Chill out, it is only ONE PRESEASON GAME. And something is wrong with Minnesota's chemistry right now.

BUT OUR CHEMISTRY LOOKS GREAT. And LaFrentz and Welsch have not been able to practice.

Who the [email protected]#$ booed LaFrentz? If I find out who did that, you're in trouble.

Who wants to trade Eric Williams again?

Big John is right=Banks looked better. Vin Baker looked good. Forget the points and rebounds, watch how when he gets the rebound he whips that outlet out, quick and crisp. The running game functioned well last night.

Pierce is a stud. The Wolves were actually jumping in the passing lanes, afraid that he was going to PASS. Wow!


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: Whoa people calm down*



> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> 1. Actually I thought Banks' defense was significantly better than what I saw against Detroit and NJ. He was in the proper defensive position and he made Cassell work for his shots. Cassell made a few, but missed a few also. Banks also did not commit any dumb reach-in fouls.
> ...


I think I said right in my post I'd reserve judgement bc he hadn't practiced yet but was not impressed with that performance. I do not think he's a point guard though, at all!


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

I am happy the way we played and won today but you all need to calm down a bit! It is just one preseason game just like whiterhino said! 

I noticed that there are some of you who changed your opinion on the trade just after one day and one game but I still believe this wasnt the best trade for us! You are saying that offense is more fluid and that everything looks smoother without Toine and I agree with you! I wasnt against trading Toine because I felt that he didnt fit best in this system but not for what we got in return. 

There is one thing I would like to talk about here. All these Walker haters are coming to the surface now and are saying nothing but bad things about him. How he was a ball hog, couldnt shoot, rebound, pass…and are anxiously waiting for him to have a bad game in Dallas. All this is just childish! Yes, he took to many threes and bad shoots and his rebounds per game came down last couple of years but there is explanation for all that. I have said this before and I still believe that the coach is to blame for a lot of this. I read in an article that Obie talked to him many times about playing closer to the rim but he just didnt listen! He played the way he wanted. This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Anyone who knows anything about team sports and coaching knows how these things work. The coach is the authority here and players have to play the way he wants them to play because if they dont they are benched! And I dont remember seeing Toine on the bench that much! And if Walker really didnt listen why would Obie tolerate his disobedience and loose authority in the eyes of other players. If that was the case Walker would be traded years ago! That is why I believe the coach needs to carry some responsibility for all those threes and bad shoots! Walker in a different system with his talent can be much more effective and a much better player. I feel playing in Dallas will help Toine show his real value and his true game. 

That is why giving away Toine was good for him and is also good for Boston because he didnt fit into this system. But still this trade was not good. You are saying that now all the other guys have a chance to show what they can do and I agree but I just feel that we could get better players in return (I certainly dont believe those articles which are saying this was the best we could get for him). There is one thing I want to emphasize here-getting rid of Walker and giving opportunity to others to step up doesnt necessarily mean that this was also a good trade. The key here is getting rid of walker and with that implementing a more effective system. *So it is not Lafrentz who makes this trade look good for us but it is Walkers departure! * 

Dont get me wrong I think Lafrentz is a good player and can help this team but his contract is just horrible! And he has 6 more years on it! If he had something like 4-5 million a year I would be happy with that but I dont think he is worth that much! And with his contract he looks like he is the second corner stone for this franchise behind Pierce (Bakers contract is thankfully slowly running out)! And I dont think Raef is anywhere close to being a leader for this team! He is a nice, useful player for this team but NOT a leader and someone who is going to take us closer to being a title contender! 

That is why I feel giving away Walker was a good idea but not the way Ainge started rebuilding this team! In the long term this deal doesnt take us closer to banner 17! For that to happen we have got to realize that huge multiyear contracts should only been given to extra quality players who can carry a team on their own and not to players who are good but are not corner stones of the franchise!


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I agree with you totally Birdman, I was fine with trading Antoine if we got = value in return but we didn't. I'm sure Raef will work well for us but I could more see him in a trade for EWill and Battie than Walker & Delk, it just simply didn't make sense. He's a solid player, probably a starter on most teams but not a Star.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Birdman makes some good points here. 

This is going to be a case of addition by subtraction. 

It also makes sence financially.


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## bujabra (Jun 14, 2003)

This trade has everything to do with team chemistry and offensive strategy!


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