# Ford VS Calderon



## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Just wanted to ask, who would you other Pacers fans rather have? So far I think Ford is having the better season, and I also think he is a better fit.

Here are the comparisons on the stats so far:

TJ
---

PPG 17.1 
RPG 4.9 
APG 6.4 
SPG 1.1 
BPG 0.1 
FG% 0.479 
FT% 0.893 
3P% 0.417 
MPG 34.7 

Calderon
--------

PPG 13.5 
RPG 2.8 
APG 9.0 
SPG 0.6 
BPG 0.1 
FG% 0.450 
FT% 1.000 
3P% 0.407 
MPG 36.3 


Keep in mind, TJ's assists were low at the beginning of the season since he had to learn O'Brien's offense (and because this is a passing offense where nobody holds the ball more than 3 or so seconds), and lately he has been damn close to triple doubles. I don't see why Raptors fans were so down on TJ and so high on Calderon. Ford didn't like coming off the bench, but he has a reason. He is a near all star point guard and deserves to start. 

Health is the only thing Calderon had on Ford, but Ford has been healthy so far this season, and Calderon has some kind of mystery hamstring problem. 

Anyways, the season is young, but in my opinion Ford is just way better.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

no comments on this?


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Pretty easy answer DT...I would take Ford any day of the week, and I really think Toronto made a huge mistake by letting him go, I mean just look what he has done for this team so far.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Pretty easy answer DT...I would take Ford any day of the week, and I really think Toronto made a huge mistake by letting him go, I mean just look what he has done for this team so far.


Yeah and I called it that Calderon was a fluke last season. He is not nearly a 50/40 shooter like he played last season. Also, he is not close to the passer TJ is.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

I've seen these guys play a million times (i get a lot of raptors games here) and trust me, theres a reason why they traded Ford instead of Calderon. Personally I'm not a big fan of Ford. Ford loves to over dribble and struggles at times to get everyone on the team touches. That's not the case with Calderon. He makes everyone around him better and RARELY turns the ball over. Calderon is consistent and shoots the ball better than Ford as well. I'm not saying Ford is a bad player bud I'd take Calderon over Ford in a split second. I wouldn't even have to think about it. All the guys on the Raptors board would agree.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Calderon doesn't have great passing ability though. He is a Diener type of passer, never takes chances. Sometimes, to get an offense going, you have to take a chance or two with your passes.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Yeah and I called it that Calderon was a fluke last season. He is not nearly a 50/40 shooter like he played last season. Also, he is not close to the passer TJ is.


Not close to the passer? You're right, he just gets more assists and has an amazing assist to TO ratio.

****, what a stupid thing to say....


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Calderon doesn't have great passing ability though. He is a Diener type of passer, never takes chances. Sometimes, to get an offense going, you have to take a chance or two with your passes.


You know whos a Diener type of passer? Me. Because I suck at basketball, and Travis Diener sucks at basketball.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

R-Star said:


> You know whos a Diener type of passer? Me. Because I suck at basketball, and Travis Diener suckas at basketball.


:laugh:


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Dude don't be a jerk, goodness everyone on here seems to go beserk over stupid ****.

Don't go by stats. Calderon can not make most of the passes TJ can make. Even Raptor fans say he is a safe passer and never gets flashy with his passes.

Dude Diener does not suck at basketball. Granted he may not be as good as most of the NBA players, but he still hits the threes and takes care of the ball and that is what you want with a 3rd string point guard.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Dude don't be a jerk, goodness everyone on here seems to go beserk over stupid ****.
> 
> Don't go by stats. Calderon can not make most of the passes TJ can make. Even Raptor fans say he is a safe passer and never gets flashy with his passes.
> 
> Dude Diener does not suck at basketball. Granted he may not be as good as most of the NBA players, but he still hits the threes and takes care of the ball and that is what you want with a 3rd string point guard.


And Jose Calderson has the passing skills of the Pacers third string point guard?


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Just while we're on the topic of Travis Diener, he's a lesser version of Chris Quinn.

And I'm probably doing him a compliment there cause Quinn has played very well this season.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

R-Star said:


> And Jose Calderson has the passing skills of the Pacers third string point guard?




No.. he just is safe like Diener is.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

NewAgeBaller said:


> Just while we're on the topic of Travis Diener, he's a lesser version of Chris Quinn.
> 
> And I'm probably doing him a compliment there cause Quinn has played very well this season.


Um, no. He is better taking care of the ball, shooting the ball, and is just better at basketball. I'm done with this topic, yall are just trying to annoy me.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Okay I just looked at the stats, Quinn is playing really well this season. But he also gets more than twice the minutes and is on a point guard starved team. He also gets to play with Wade and that doesn't hurt.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

DT you are ridiculous sometimes. You have obviously seen Calderon play once or twice tops. Just because Calderon takes care of the ball better then almost anyone in the league and has one of the best AST/TO ratios makes him safe passer? That's just stupid. Putting Travis Diener's name in the same sentence as Calderon is a joke as well. You really got to stop bringing Diener's name into arguments. It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you compare players to a third string point guard that nobody even knows exists. I'm definitely on R-Stars side for this one.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

This isnt worth a debate. Calderon is a better point guard and passer than TJ, and Diener sucks.

You know a guy who made awesome, non safe passes? Tinsley. Miss him? No? Calderon is a better passer than TJ.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

DienerTime said:


> Okay I just looked at the stats, Quinn is playing really well this season. But he also gets more than twice the minutes and is on a point guard starved team. He also gets to play with Wade and that doesn't hurt.


You can't just judge players on their stats either. If I haven't seen a guy actually play then I don't comment on the guy at all. Numbers dont tell the whole story.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Are you saying that in response to me about Quinn or them about Diener? I see Calderon play a lot. During playoffs, and I watch the NBA games pretty much all the time. Quinn I have seen him play alot too. He's really inconsistent. I do like that he plays with a lot of effor though and the fact he is a really hard worker, but he is not much if any better than Diener. That showed last year. I just hate the hate Dienr gets after working his *** off for this team last year and did his best to keep us afloat. He is not a starting point guard no, but he is a good backup/3rd string.


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## Wayne (May 24, 2006)

U guys r mad mean to DT lolol dang

Calderon does play way more safe compared to TJ, but TJ can create scoring opportunities for the team better. Who you take really depends on if you already have a first option like Bosh who will do most of the scoring or not


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Wayne said:


> U guys r mad mean to DT lolol dang
> 
> Calderon does play way more safe compared to TJ, but TJ can create scoring opportunities for the team better. Who you take really depends on if you already have a first option like Bosh who will do most of the scoring or not


Nothing wrong with aggressive debating. DT can handle it. And TJ can create better scoring chances for himself (sometimes due to selfish reasons) but he can't create scoring chances for his team better than Jose. Very few guards can. I'm sorry guys but Jose Calderon is much more of a team player then TJ will ever be. Just like I said before, I'd take Jose over TJ and I wouldn't even have to think about it. TJ's great but Jose's better.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

TJ is not selfish at all. If you can score, you score. He has no problem passing at all, but sometimes he is the best scoring option on the floor and that is why he shoots.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

DienerTime said:


> Um, no. He is better taking care of the ball, shooting the ball, and is just better at basketball. I'm done with this topic, yall are just trying to annoy me.





DienerTime said:


> Okay I just looked at the stats, Quinn is playing really well this season. But he also gets more than twice the minutes and is on a point guard starved team. He also gets to play with Wade and that doesn't hurt.





DienerTime said:


> Are you saying that in response to me about Quinn or them about Diener? I see Calderon play a lot. During playoffs, and I watch the NBA games pretty much all the time. Quinn I have seen him play alot too. He's really inconsistent. I do like that he plays with a lot of effor though and the fact he is a really hard worker, but he is not much if any better than Diener. That showed last year. I just hate the hate Dienr gets after working his *** off for this team last year and did his best to keep us afloat. He is not a starting point guard no, but he is a good backup/3rd string.


What? 

One of Chris Quinn's best upsides and the reason he's getting minutes is his consistency (or perhaps moreso the fact that he's the most stable and 'safe' option all-round). He's definately not "really inconsistent" though..

Anyway, when I said Diener is a lesser version of Chris Quinn, I admittedly havn't seen much of Diener. But from the little I do know of him and the much I've seen of Quinn, my opinion is that Quinn makes the better PG (though their talent is probably similar).

It wasn't even a knock on Diener really (assuming you know Diener is a good 3rd string or average 2nd string at best). Like I said, Quinn has been playing very favorably.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Quinn's jumpshot from what I have seen is really inconsistent. He can go 4-5 one day and 0-4 the next. Diener was like that last season but he had a bad foot, this year he is making them consistently. Another thing, i'm not sure if you know this or not but Diener was top 5 in ast/to ratio last year.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> TJ is not selfish at all. If you can score, you score. He has no problem passing at all, but sometimes he is the best scoring option on the floor and that is why he shoots.


That's what I said about Tinsley last year and you hated it. Ford reminded me a lot of Tinsley during this game, except that he was hitting 3's. But really, the same things where he really wouldn't trust anyone else on the court because he really shouldn't have, but at the same time, he was doing no better. He took a bunch of dumb shots.

I think if we have Dunleavy and Granger healthy, Calderon's a better pick, but if we need another scoring option, TJ's the way to go.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm counting the days until Mike is back. I'd still take Ford, though.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> I'm counting the days until Mike is back. I'd still take Ford, though.


And that would be a mistake.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

You're a mistake. I don't see why you're so damn popular around here, you're annoying.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> You're a mistake. I don't see why you're so damn popular around here, you're annoying.


A thousand nations of the R-Star empire will descend upon you. Our arrows will blot out the sun!


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

DienerTime said:


> I'm counting the days until Mike is back. I'd still take Ford, though.


I'm sure you would.



DienerTime said:


> You're a mistake. I don't see why you're so damn popular around here, you're annoying.


No need to get personal. If your going to disagree with someone and have a debate do it in a mature matter.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm tired of everyone jumping on me and **** it gets annoying. You'd get frustrated too.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Then think before you post! I love how active you are but you make some ridiculous statements and people are going to get on your *** for it.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> You're a mistake. I don't see why you're so damn popular around here, you're annoying.


Ha ha ha. Getting personal are we? Make a thread on the main board and ask who people would choose, Calderon or TJ, I can already tell you how that poll will fare.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Yeah, should've just said "I don't know anything about Calderon therefore I would like your opinion" instead of saying something so ridiculously wrong.

Like I've been saying to our Raptor fans, talent wise TJ is just as good as Calderon. They are different types of PGs (as you guys obviously know). TJ is more drive and kick whereas Calderon works off the pick and roll. If TJ stays healthy for the entire year it is quite possible that he would have a better statistical season. However, there lies TJ's problem, he is injury prone. Raptor fans have become frustrated with Ford over the years because it seems that whenever he gets on a roll, something bad would happen to him and he would be out for an extended period of time. From the Raptors standpoint, if you had to choose 1 of 2 PGs to be your franchise PG, health has to be one of your top concern and Calderon wins in that regard. The Raptors will miss TJ's speed and athleticism (the team's greatest weakness) but they will not miss the fear of losing their starting PG everytime TJ takes a fall.

Of course, if TJ stays healthy then perhaps one can say that the Raptors made a mistake. But given the circumstances, it just didn't make any sense for the Raptors to choose Ford over Calderon when the guy just came off 2 seasons where he missed a ton of games.

And the "mistake" I'm talking about isn't just about who's the better player. The Raptors had they been willing to trade Calderon would likely have gotten a much better deal than Jermaine O'neal. In trading Ford the Raptors basically said that Calderon is worth more than Ford plus the opportunity to drastically better our team.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

No ones jumping down your throat in this thread. Diener isnt that good, hes a borderline bench player, otherwise known as a scrub. You like him as a player, no big deal.
TJ over Calderon though? Come on. Im a Pacers fan too, but Calderon would be an easy decision. Hes one of those rare guys who makes his team better, not a player who complains and demands floor time like TJ.

You're taking flak in your "Help me get in shape so I can get a boyfriend" thread. Not in here.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

I like Calderon if I had to choose one for my team. The guy is just more clutch if you ask me, and is the more steady/smarter player...


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

R-Star said:


> No ones jumping down your throat in this thread. Diener isnt that good, hes a borderline bench player, otherwise known as a scrub.


This thread isn't about Diener. I just mention that Calderon s a lot like Diener with his passing style. I'm not even saying Calderon isn't a good passer I'm just saying that Ford takes more risks with his passing and that he is a better passer. I know Calderon is WAY better than Diener, and I know he is a WAY better passer, although he doesn't show it often. I just said that he has the same safe style Diener has. You're the one that has turned it into a Diener thread.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Looks like a lot of people overrate Calderon around here...


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Looks like a lot of people overrate Calderon around here...


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PaCeRhOLiC again.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Looks like a couple people here have never seen Jose Calderon play...


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

As a completely neutral fan, I think you have to take Calderon. Durability and shooting are really important from the PG position. Calderon brings them both. TJ's a great player, though.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

As I said, if this argument was on the main board, and not the Pacers board, you would see a Calderon landslide.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

You must spread some reputation before giving it to R-Star again.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

I honestly think we got the best player for our team. Not saying Ford is better all the way around though. Calderon is clearly more efficient and a better long range shooter. They play very different styles. Honestly this team needs slashers. Our two best slashers are our point guards. 3 of the 4 Wings are basically shooters, Granger (he's becoming more of an all arounder though), Dunleavy, and Rush. On this roster the only real slasher get to the basket types are Ford, Jack, and Daniels. Ford is clearly the best fit, even more so once Dunleavy's back. We also really needed someone to step up and become the clear #3 option. (Granger-1, Dunleavy-2, now Ford is 3) In addition, Ford's assist numbers are low right now. I fully expect them to go way up. He's a 14ppg 8apg guy.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

I'd take Ford as well. Doesn't mean he's the better player, just the player I like more. It's been an odd season for TJ so far, he flirts with triple doubles three games in a row, then comes out and only dishes out like 3 assists and struggles to score. If he can get more consistent with his smart play, I think this argument would be a lot closer. The season is still young, let's wait and see how it pans out.

As far as the rest goes, Diener is a perfectly fine basketball player. I think people seem to forget all of the games that he really set a huge example and lead the way for our struggling team last year. He's no superstar, but there is no reason to spread blind hate around here.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

StephenJackson said:


> I'd take Ford as well. Doesn't mean he's the better player, just the player I like more. It's been an odd season for TJ so far, he flirts with triple doubles three games in a row, then comes out and only dishes out like 3 assists and struggles to score. If he can get more consistent with his smart play, I think this argument would be a lot closer. The season is still young, let's wait and see how it pans out.
> 
> As far as the rest goes, Diener is a perfectly fine basketball player. I think people seem to forget all of the games that he really set a huge example and lead the way for our struggling team last year. He's no superstar, but there is no reason to spread blind hate around here.


:clap:Repped


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## nammer21 (Jul 29, 2004)

You really equate the making of fancy/risky passes to being a good passer or point guard? Wow, you don't know jack about basketball. 

Go watch Chris Paul or pull up some old tape of John Stockton and see how many AWESOME behind the back between the leg passes they make. God forbid they make the smart, easy pass, which invariably leads to easy bucket and an assist. 

Oh why oh why can't they get more fancy/risky. :azdaja: I guess they'll have to live with leading the league in assist.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

StephenJackson said:


> I'd take Ford as well. Doesn't mean he's the better player, just the player I like more. It's been an odd season for TJ so far, he flirts with triple doubles three games in a row, then comes out and only dishes out like 3 assists and struggles to score. If he can get more consistent with his smart play, I think this argument would be a lot closer. The season is still young, let's wait and see how it pans out.
> 
> As far as the rest goes, Diener is a perfectly fine basketball player. I think people seem to forget all of the games that he really set a huge example and lead the way for our struggling team last year. He's no superstar, but there is no reason to spread blind hate around here.


The reason why Diener gets so much hate around here is because DT loves to compare him to great players. He overrates him and it gets kind of annoying. He's a freakin third string point guard!



nammer21 said:


> You really equate the making of fancy/risky passes to being a good passer or point guard? Wow, you don't know jack about basketball.
> 
> Go watch Chris Paul or pull up some old tape of John Stockton and see how many AWESOME behind the back between the leg passes they make. God forbid they make the smart, easy pass, which invariably leads to easy bucket and an assist.
> 
> Oh why oh why can't they get more fancy/risky. :azdaja: I guess they'll have to live with leading the league in assist.


^Repped. Being fancy gets you on the highlight reel but it wont win you games.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

nammer21 said:


> You really equate the making of fancy/risky passes to being a good passer or point guard? Wow, you don't know jack about basketball.
> 
> Go watch Chris Paul or pull up some old tape of John Stockton and see how many AWESOME behind the back between the leg passes they make. God forbid they make the smart, easy pass, which invariably leads to easy bucket and an assist.
> 
> Oh why oh why can't they get more fancy/risky. :azdaja: I guess they'll have to live with leading the league in assist.


Oh yeah, that's real mature. Doubt my basketball knowledge over me saying Ford can make better passes? I wish they hadn't taken away negative rep because you sure would have got some.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Knick_Killer31 said:


> The reason why Diener gets so much hate around here is because DT loves to compare him to great players. He overrates him and it gets kind of annoying. He's a freakin third string point guard!



I'm not even comparing the two and i've said this before. I just am saying that Calderon does the safe passes and doesn't do anything special passing wise.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Geez, Diener, R-Star, and Knick, there's no reason to get all up in arms over an argument about who is a better passer. Leave the discussion to basketball, please, and stay away from personal digs or digs about mod performance. Contact your CM (me) if you have any issues.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Knick_Killer31 said:


> The reason why Diener gets so much hate around here is because DT loves to compare him to great players. He overrates him and it gets kind of annoying.



No poster deserves to get ripped or ganged on weather you agree or disagree with him or her, and this should especially not come from a moderator.


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## nammer21 (Jul 29, 2004)

DienerTime said:


> Oh yeah, that's real mature. Doubt my basketball knowledge over me saying Ford can make better passes? I wish they hadn't taken away negative rep because you sure would have got some.


Thinking that Ford is a better passer then Calderon isn't indicative of your lack of basketball knowledge. I can understand if some wants to debate it (although I don't think it's even close). It's that you use the fancy/risky pass argument that makes me question if you even understand the game of basketball. 

It's nice to see a high-risk alley-oop pass off the backboard. Not so much when it bounces of the rim and goes back the other way for an easy basket. Fancy gets you on ESPN. Simple and efficient wins you games.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

nammer21 said:


> Thinking that Ford is a better passer then Calderon isn't indicative of your lack of basketball knowledge. I can understand if some wants to debate it (although I don't think it's even close). It's that you use the fancy/risky pass argument that makes me question if you even understand the game of basketball.
> 
> It's nice to see a high-risk alley-oop pass off the backboard. Not so much when it bounces of the rim and goes back the other way for an easy basket. Fancy gets you on ESPN. Simple and efficient wins you games.


This is where we both say we disagree with eachother and move on.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> No poster deserves to get ripped or ganged on weather you agree or disagree with him or her, and this should especially not come from a moderator.


There's a different between strongly disagreeing and attacking personally.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

Knick_Killer31 said:


> The reason why Diener gets so much hate around here is because DT loves to compare him to great players. He overrates him and it gets kind of annoying. He's a freakin third string point guard!
> 
> 
> 
> ^Repped. Being fancy gets you on the highlight reel but it wont win you games.


I agree Diener is not the man by any means, but he's a probably the best third string point guard in the league. My personal opinion is that he's a pretty solid back-up (#2), which makes having him as a #3 outstanding. O'brien must think pretty highly of him too, if he's giving Jack minutes at two guard.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

^ the best 3rd string PG means there's ONLY about, hmmm 62 PG's better then you? not bad. :biggrin:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Oh yeah, that's real mature. Doubt my basketball knowledge over me saying Ford can make better passes? I wish they hadn't taken away negative rep because you sure would have got some.


And saying you'd negative rep someone is mature?

His post was a good one, I agreed 100% so I repped him for it.

As has been said, Tinsley can throw a behind the back, through the legs pass, doesnt mean he should, and no ones going to remember him as a better passer than Kidd just because he was a more flashy passer.

Like I said, take it to the main board and try to say Fords a better passer. See how it works out for you.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> This is where we both say we disagree with eachother and move on.


Where do you disagree with him? You think fancy highlight passes over a safe assist and basket wins games?


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> ^ the best 3rd string PG means there's ONLY about, hmmm 62 PG's better then you? not bad. :biggrin:


Now wait a minute, i'm saying he's a solid number two and a steal as a number three... he's probably better than 10 or 12 number two pgs out there.. that would only put 50 or 52 ahead of him. :biggrin:


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

R-Star said:


> And saying you'd negative rep someone is mature?
> 
> His post was a good one, I agreed 100% so I repped him for it.
> 
> ...


In his defense this a bad year to compare them, Ford is forced to score more than normal right now and he lacks a real low post threat on his team. A fair gauge of Ford is his 06-07 year with Toronto. In a perfect situation he's a 14ppg 8apg point guard with between 2.5 to 3 turnovers. Roughly an assist to turnover ratio of about 2.9 to 1. That makes him one of the better pass first point guards in the league. Hell he had 6apg in only 23.5 minutes last year. I agree Calderon is probably the better passer, but hes not leaps and bounds ahead of Ford. You guys make it sound like Ford's not even in the same ballpark. Honestly when i think about both guys, my general opinion is that there both better than about 3/4 of starting point guards, but neither is really elite.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

R-Star said:


> Where do you disagree with him? You think fancy highlight passes over a safe assist and basket wins games?


I'm curious about Diener's answer to this too.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

Ras said:


> I'm curious about Diener's answer to this too.


Isn't the correct answer that a good pass first point guard should be able to do both? You can't be 100% technical and you can't be 100% street ball. I think DT was simply saying he thinks Calderson is too technical.


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## nammer21 (Jul 29, 2004)

NorthSideHatrik said:


> Isn't the correct answer that a good pass first point guard should be able to do both? You can't be 100% technical and you can't be 100% street ball. I think DT was simply saying he thinks Calderson is too technical.


If you are a great technical passer, you can make any type of pass. It's just the good/smart PG's choose not to do it.

Any moron off the street can make a fancy street ball pass. I'm sure if Stockton wanted to, he could have pulled off some crazy-*** #$#@. But he chose not to. And lo and behold, he is the all-time NBA assists leader.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

nammer21 said:


> If you are a great technical passer, you can make any type of pass. It's just the good/smart PG's choose not to do it.
> 
> Any moron off the street can make a fancy street ball pass. I'm sure if Stockton wanted to, he could have pulled off some crazy-*** #$#@. But he chose not to. And lo and behold, he is the all-time NBA assists leader.


I agree any moron off the street can pull some fancy pass, but we're not talking about any moron and we're not talking about john stockton we're talking about Jose Calderon. And i disagree that the fancy is always wrong. Here's the thing i'm not defending street ball, i'm just defending good basketball. Sometimes the fancy pass is the only one that could get the job done. The trick is picking your spots, of course the fancy one isn't always the right one. Look at Jason Kidd, and he's my favorite player of all time so i'm a bit of a homer, but he's the perfect example of streetball and technical. He does it all. Chris Paul appears to be the same way too. You can't just be technical.

and dont take this out of context, i honestly think there is only a small amount of difference in overall talent looking both Ford and Calderon.


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