# Why is Trevor Ariza so overhyped?



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Everybody is talking about him like he's going to contribute this year. Please, the only reason people talk about him is it's NY. What makes Ariza better than Ndudi Ebi or Travis Outlaw? Those 2 combined for about 50 minutes last year.


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## danesh23 (Jun 22, 2003)

because he is from UCLA......


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

1) Isiah seems more committed to developing his youth than his predecessor. 

2) We aren't particularly deep at the SF position.

3) We don't have too many defensively oriented guys.

4) I know what you'll say about Shandon, but you know what Isiah will say to that.

5) After Layden traded away 4 first round picks in 4 years, fans are eager to see what kids with promise can do.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Rashidi,the question is why are you so down on him???????

From Marbury

" but none was more impressive than second-round pick Trevor Ariza, who had several nice plays, including a few dunks on the break. 

"I don't know what teams were thinking when they passed up on that kid," Marbury said of Ariza, who played one season at UCLA and was picked 43rd overall by the Knicks. "I don't think teams look at basketball players anymore -- they look at athletes. That kid knows how to play the game. He doesn't make too many mistakes." 


The guy has done nothing but impress everyone so far....


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

I have seen him play and the boy is like Tim Hardaway mad skillz....


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> I have seen him play and the boy is like Tim Hardaway mad skillz....


I am not sure i totally understand what you just said..Are you saying he is super talented??

Or are you saying he has a game similar to Tim hardaway??

from all the scouting reports I saw he is nowhere near the shooter of TH.....


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> but none was more impressive than second-round pick Trevor Ariza, who had several nice plays, including a few dunks on the break.
> 
> "I don't know what teams were thinking when they passed up on that kid," Marbury said of Ariza, who played one season at UCLA and was picked 43rd overall by the Knicks. "I don't think teams look at basketball players anymore -- they look at athletes. That kid knows how to play the game. He doesn't make too many mistakes."


He sounds like an unpolished Monty Williams to me. He even has the health concern (asthma) that will prevent him from ever playing big minutes (Williams had either asthma or a heart condition if I'm not mistaken).

And aren't those quotes a bit contradictory? Ariza's highlights consist of a few dunks on the break, while Marbury says that people only look at athletes.

Asking Marbury's opinion is like asking the Pacers teammates if Jermaine O'Neal deserved to be MVP or the Nuggets teammates if Carmelo Anthony deserved ROY. He'd be saying the same thing if the Knicks drafted Bernard Robinson, Ricky Minard, or Romain Sato.

The theoretical reason Ariza fell so low is there were 12 SFs drafted this year, and he was 11th. Only 5 SFs were taken after the 22nd pick (37 picks)

6. Josh Childress
7. Luol Deng
9. Andre Iguodala
10. Luke Jackson
17. Josh Smith
19. Dorrell Wright
22. Viktor Khrapya
37. Donta Smith
40. Justin Reed
43. Viktor Sanikidze
44. Trevor Ariza
54. Matt Freije

The teams picking ahead of the Knicks in the 2nd round didn't need SFs.
Magic 2x, Suns, Wizards, Clippers, Hawks 3x, Sonics 2x, Bulls, Raptors, Celtics, picked ahead of the Knicks. The only team that really needed SFs was Atlanta, and they went the Euro route because they are overstocked at the position, not to mention that Ariza doesn't do anything that Josh Smith and Boris Diaw don't.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

^So is your assertion that each and every one of those guys will turn into better players than Ariza? Because if they ALL don't then it supports Marbury's case that Ariza was overlooked.

And since when was defense and court vision considered Monty's forte?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Monty Williams and Arisa are nothing alike,other than one had a heart condition and one has asthma...

Ariza is a 19 y.o who has shown extreme athleticism and quickness...

also,its my fault as far as the quote..marbury did not mention the dunking..that was from the person who wrote the article.Marbury only said



> "I don't know what teams were thinking when they passed up on that kid," Marbury said of Ariza, who played one season at UCLA and was picked 43rd overall by the Knicks. "I don't think teams look at basketball players anymore -- they look at athletes. That kid knows how to play the game. He doesn't make too many mistakes."


I honestly dont know how you can have a counter position to what has been said about him....He has shown nothingt but upside so far....And hes 19!!!!


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

"He sounds like an unpolished Monty Williams to me"

what the hell? Monty Williams' only comparison is Corliss Williamson, i dont see any similarities in his game to Ariza at all. Have you even seen Monty play?

Ariza is a slasher,and he is a GOOD slasher. the only problem he will have is the defense sagging off too far taking away his passing lanes and penetrating ability forcing him to shoot. he has been working on his shot, and i saw him make a three at the charity game,his only attempt outside of 3 feet. if he can develop a jumper, he can be something good. and he has the work ethic, they've beent alking about him being a gym rat, staying late after practices.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

BTW,Monty Williams lit up Grant hill when Notre dame played Duke..He was pretty polished,but nowhere nearly as athletic as Ariza....


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> what the hell? Monty Williams' only comparison is Corliss Williamson, i dont see any similarities in his game to Ariza at all. Have you even seen Monty play?


Most of my memories of him are admittedly from his rookie year. But he was a scrub role player whose best quality was his defense.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Naturally Monty entered the NBA more polished, he was 23, and drafted with the 24th (I think) pick. Ariza is 19 and was taken at 44th.

But Monty was known as a scorer (not shooter) while Ariza is known as a defender. Ariza is already showing signs he can score too. Monty never could defend.

When Ariza is 23 we can talk about his polish.


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## Jmonty580 (Jun 20, 2003)

I think where Ariza will really come in hany is in the running game. From the sounds of it he is pretty athletic and a good passer and has good court vision. This means that not only can he be on the recieving end of alleyoops but he can also be a distributor on fastbreaks. I'd like to think that he has Richard Jefferson potentail in the open court, but we'll see. Its hard to be down on a guy that has MArbury, Isaha, Lenny, JYD, and even Shandon Anderson giving him so much credit. Non of these guys have to make nice comments about Ariza and would watch thier tongues because there credability will go out the window if Ariza actually sucks, so why would they lie?


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Non of these guys have to make nice comments about Ariza and would watch thier tongues because there credability will go out the window if Ariza actually sucks, so why would they lie?


Yes, I'm sure their crediblity would go right out the window. Wait, since when did a basketball player need crediblity?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

rashidi,what exactly is it you have against Arisa??

I havent seen one negative thing said about him except for you.Every other comment,from players and coaches are very high on him.And you compared him to monty Williams of all people..

I am not even sure how you could formulate an opinion unless you are in the stands at practice


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## NYKFan123 (Sep 26, 2004)

The only posibble theory is that he is Isiah's player, therefore he sucks. Now Eisley, well he should start over Marbury if he was still here.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Ariza is flying high
Second-round pick's speed and athleticism turning heads, making Knicks believe
they got a huge steal in draft
BY GREG LOGAN
Newsday


"If his name were 'Arizovic,' he would have been a first- round pick," Knicks
European scout Kevin Wilson said. "He's looked good every day here."


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Now Eisley, well he should start over Marbury if he was still here.


Surely if Layden had made the Marbury trade he'd have given them F-Will, Sweetney and Spoon instead of Eisley. This would allow Eisley to continue to play the 1st and 3rd quarters. And we know Shandon could man the SG spot until Houston returned on another accelerated rehab schedule.

Of course I'm still not sure how Layden was gonna pull off that deal after re-signing McDyess...


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

he stole that arizovic joke from jason kapono........


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## JazzMan (Feb 26, 2003)

I don't think you can say he's overhyped or underhyped until he's played a meaningful game. We simply dont' know how much he's going to contribute at the moment.

If you want to ask, "why is he so hyped", fair enough. But to say he's overhyped is jumping the gun somewhat. it's not as if he's the talk of the town. The most I've heard is that he is expected to contribute this season. Even though he's a second round pick, that's not exactly "hype" of any kind.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I've heard fans call him a steal and say that if he'd stayed in college one more year, he would have been a lottery pick next year.

Given that Knicks fans made the same sort of claims about Maciej Lampe and Milos Vujanic, I think we have a right to be skeptical about the hype surrounding Trevor Ariza.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> I've heard fans call him a steal and say that if he'd stayed in college one more year, he would have been a lottery pick next year.
> 
> Given that Knicks fans made the same sort of claims about Maciej Lampe and Milos Vujanic, I think we have a right to be skeptical about the hype surrounding Trevor Ariza.


Not to stick up for the Knicks fan but that's not a good comparison for you argument AT ALL! For the fact that Lampe WAS a steal, he only went 2nd round because of contract problems. When he finally got to play in Pheonix at the end of last season he played extremely well as the 2nd youngest player in the league after Darko, the Suns are expecting him to make huge strides this year. As for Milos Vujanic, he's never played in the NBA yet but he's the best PG outside of the NBA and I have no doubt he'd be good in the NBA. He hasn't come over yet because he doesn't want to yet, not because he's not good enough.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Why is this so hard to understand? The kid is opening peoples eyes. Based upon his college career Knicks staff thought they had a distant project on their hands. But his work in summer camp and pre-season is making them think that he might be able to contribute better and sooner than they anticipated. 

Say what you will about his weaknesses, the kid has a way of making good things happen.

So what's the big deal?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Rashidi,you knew this was coming........

WTF are you talking about regarding ARIZA???

The guy is flat out talented in every facet of his game....

He is far better than Shandon and in 3 months I may be wiping the egg off my face and begging to have TT come off the bench and start Ariza..

Please tell me...What dont you like about his game..it is very sound fundamentally,and hes a super athlete


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

After 2 preseason games watching him, what do you think do? Justified?


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

the only thing i dont like is he makes alot of bad passes.

besides that, his defense, quickness, ball handling and athleticism will make him a good backup. he even made a jumper the other day. Hes Rodney White with work ethic. This kid works hard to improve his game staying late after practices and always working on his jumper.

i think hes better then DJ was...and hes better then White as far as im concerned.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*I was wrong...*

This kid is going to make an impact THIS year. He has it all except the jumper. Already he does more for the team than TT. His defense really gets the team going and he is turning into quite the stat sheet stuffer. TT is a goner. As should be Moochie and Anderson..there is just no room at the inn for these guys.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> besides that, his defense, quickness, ball handling and athleticism will make him a good backup. he even made a jumper the other day.


Penny,he also appears to have that intangable quality that the really good palyers have..The kid weighs 190 pounds soaking wet and grabs 9 boards and plays tough D..he picks of ginobli,blows right by barry...He is very fundamentally sound and plays with gret energy....

Isnt Rodney White all offense,no D and even less brains???

As for DJ,Ariza offers what the Knicks need,now that they have JC...We need a defensive minded small foward,who can run,rebound and is fundamentally sound

Why does everyone say he has no jumper??

I have seen him take 2 shots from the perimeter and made 1...


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Why does everyone say he has no jumper??
> 
> I have seen him take 2 shots from the perimeter and made 1...


Talk about hypocritical statements of the day. You have seen Shandon Anderson hit MANY jumpers.

A player hits 1 of 2 jumpers in an exhibition game and suddenly it's not his weakness? 

One time I saw Shaq dribble the ball between his legs. I dunno why people say he can't play PG.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> A player hits 1 of 2 jumpers in an exhibition game and suddenly it's not his weakness?



Rashidi you have ZERO credibility in your own post until you answer what it is you have against Ariza...From what i read he had a tendon injury that affected his shooting...He has not shot the ball,so how can we evaluate his shooting..

If you remember you and KBF HATED the pick of Ariza....Now you 

What is it you know,that NOBODY else can see,that makes you dislike Ariza??The fact that he is vastly superior to the last LAYDEN link,your favorite Shandone Anderson??

Stop squirming and be evasive....What dont you like about Ariza??


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## NYKFan123 (Sep 26, 2004)

I like Ariza's game. This kid will be something one day. I say a Tayshaun Prince with a bit worse shot.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

i predict ariza goes down as a top 5 2nd round pick of all time. an arenas/redd like steal in the 2nd round ALTHOUGH WORSE THAN THOSE TWO


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

and ginobilli goes to that list as well..


NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING HE IS ANYTHING LIKE THOSE PLAYERS JUST THAT ONE DAY HE WILL BE CONSIDERED A STEAL ALONG THE LEVEL THAT THESE GUYS WERE.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Considering Redd was drafted in the same pick range, how exactly would Ariza be "as big a steal" but "not as good"? Sounds wishy washy.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

UUUHHHH..Rashidi,i see you are returning to your old form all he said was



> i predict ariza goes down as a top 5 2nd round pick of all time. an arenas/redd like steal in the 2nd round ALTHOUGH WORSE THAN THOSE TWO





> Redd was drafted in the same pick range, how exactly would Ariza be "as big a steal" but "not as good"? Sounds wishy washy.


he never said as big a steal...he said LIKE,but not as good as Redd or Arenas..Which is why hes said top 5,not top 2

Speaking of wishy washy,do you still feel Ariza is overhyped soley due to the fact that he plays for NY??


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Not that it will change his mind, but I don't think Rashidi has seen him play yet. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

But I think I can make a good guess as to why Rashidi will not give him the benefit of the doubt. He said early on that Isiah was no better GM than Layden and that his process was the same. In effect rule 1 is: at best Isiah = Layden. 

Since Layden's greatest (only?) claim to fame was finding 2nd rounders who could stay in the league, following rule 1, Ariza can only equal, but never better any of: Shandon, Eisley, or Lampe.

It also applies to trading draft picks. One of Rashidi's (or anybody's) arguments against the Marbury trade was the giving up of 1st round picks. But Layden gave up first round picks for scrubs Luc Longley, Mark Jackson, and Othella Harrington. Thus, following rule 1, Marbury can never be better than any of: Longley, Jackson or Othella.

I believe if one understands the simple rule that Isiah=Layden it's easy to follow Rashidi's pattern of logic.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Not that it will change his mind, but I don't think Rashidi has seen him play yet.


i think Rashidi formulates many opinions without ever having watched the player play...he has a formula and goes by the numbers...whicj makes me wonder what in the world is he basing his opinion of Ariza on...

i had no clue to who or what Ariza could do..But in 2 games,you can see this kid is Bruce Bowen at worst and Pippen-esque at best..


somehow,someway,when it comes to rashidi,all opinions lead to layden...


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> somehow,someway,when it comes to rashidi,all opinions lead to layden...


That's just the way people decide to direct it.

But in case you haven't noticed, every single player on this team is in some way or another a direct result of the Ewing trade.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> he never said as big a steal...he said LIKE,but not as good as Redd or Arenas..Which is why hes said top 5,not top 2


Also, considering he said top 5 second round steals of all-time, that is easily one of the most far fetched statements of all-time.

Since Arenas, Redd, and Ginobili were already listed, that means Ariza, and one of the following players will fill out the other slots.

Nick Van Exel
Cliff Robinson
Mark Price
Gheorghe Muresan
Gordan Giricek
Carlos Boozer
PJ Brown
Toni Kukoc
Cedric Ceballos
Antonio Davis
Ronald Murray
Mehmet Okur
Rashard Lewis
Todd MacCulloch
Rafer Alston
Marc Jackson
Stephen Jackson
Peja Drobnjak
Jeff McInnis
Malik Rose
Eric Snow
Howard Eisley
Voshon Lenard
Zeljko Rebraca
Dennis Rodman
Jeff Hornacek
Bob Love (38th pick of 65 draft)
Spud Webb (merely the 88th pick of the 85 draft)
Mario Elie (merely the 160th pick of 162 in the 85 draft)

See what I mean about overhyped? Didn't we hear all this same talk about Lavor Postell? Ariza is not the first decent defensive player with a sub-par to marginal offensive game to be taken in the second round.

Ruben Patterson
Trenton Hassell
Shandon Anderson
Ryan Bowen
Eduardo Najera
Earl Watson
Travis Hansen
Rasaul Butler
Bryon Russell
Rodman doesn't exactly need a mention here.

Let me guess, if Ariza is top 5, are Eddie House, Darius Songaila, Willie Green, Keith Bogans, and Tamar Slay 6th to 10th?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Very impressive research..I didnt say i agree with the statement,but your work shows that was a mighty bold statement...

As for Postell,he was a total chucker...Ariza does have something special..I will only say he is Bruce Bowen at a minimum...

have you seen Ariza play???

Hes really really sound ion almost every aspect of the game....at 19


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> I will only say he is Bruce Bowen at a minimum.


Dear God. Bruce Bowen has been on the All-Defensive Second Team three times and the First Team once. Let's wait and see before we put a 19-year-old second rounder on that level, shall we?

To answer Rashidi's question, Ariza is overhyped because he was drafted by the Knicks. Knicks fans always overhype their young, unproven players, they've done it for years.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

No we dont. We never _had_ any young unproven players before. Layden traded all of our draft picks, and so did isiah. and we werent exactly hyping up mike sweetney at all last year. most of us didnt even like him.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I don't know if you ever visit the Knicks board on RealGM, but a couple of years ago they were calling Lee Nailon a future superstar and pimping Lavor Postell. Now the consensus is that they wouldn't trade Sweetney for Nene or even for Elton Brand.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

i always thought everyone on every forum in realgm was an idiot... i was looking at the nuggets board the other day to see if they liked hatten and they were all morons.

id trade sweetney for brand any day of the week.

we just see that Ariza can play, and none of us thought he would be this good. we all thought he wouldnt be able to step on a court and contribute and he would be a project, but we see that he can. better then shandon could, anyway. were not expecting good numbers, we just see a good energy guy off the bench with lots of potential to be something good.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> To answer Rashidi's question, Ariza is overhyped because he was drafted by the Knicks. Knicks fans always overhype their young, unproven players, they've done it for years


i would say the exact opposite is true..we trash our picks..I for one thought sweetney was garbage,out of shape,and didnt take the game seriously..many other posters took the same stance..After watching him,I realised i was completely wrong and the kid has a chance to be a double double...

As for Ariza,i never even heard of him,while Rashidi,KBF and others wer TRASHING him..We are a very tough sell...

After watching Ariza play,I think he is UNDERHYPED....And thats taking into consideration that all of his fetractors say he cant make a shot outside 10 feet..I for one have only seen him take 2 shots and made one from the perimeter...

He is one of the few players we have drafted who doesnt come in gunning like Postell,Mcarty,John Wallace and Lampe...And hes 19...

Marbury said it best "What was everyone thinking??" when they passed up on this kid


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> we just see that Ariza can play, and none of us thought he would be this good. we all thought he wouldnt be able to step on a court and contribute and he would be a project, but we see that he can. better then shandon could, anyway. were not expecting good numbers, we just see a good energy guy off the bench with lots of potential to be something good.


While I don't doubt that these are your views, there are people here saying that Ariza is going to take Tim Thomas's spot in the starting lineup.




> As for Postell,he was a total chucker...


I wonder what negative comments you will reserve for Ariza if he's out of the league in 3 years. What were you saying about Postell when he was drafted, rather than what you say about him now? Hindsight is 20/20, though that seems to be a foreign concept to most NYers.



> To answer Rashidi's question, Ariza is overhyped because he was drafted by the Knicks. Knicks fans always overhype their young, unproven players, they've done it for years.


I think their baseball teams are a bit more guilty of this than basketball. The Knicks haven't had many rookies stick with the team, but the ones that do end up being overhyped in some fashion.

Mike Sweetney shows a glimpse at being a solid bench player, and suddenly he's a future all-star.

DerMarr Johnson allegedly was another player on the rise, "defintiely an upgrade over Shandon Anderson", and he's not even in anyone's training camp.

Trevor Ariza plays two exhibition games, and suddenly Tim Thomas needs to watch his back.

Speaking of Tim Thomas, weren't these same fans crowing about how his athleticism would be an upgrade over Keith Van Horn, and that he had yet to reach his potential? I guess that means some raw 19 year old kid is better than Keith Van Horn. Lebron and Melo better watch their backs.

Maybe Knick fans were spoiled by Pat Riley's ability to mold John Starks and Anthony Mason into very effective players, or even Jeff Van Gundy helping Charlie Ward from being a horrible rookie to a gritty role player. Maybe Knick fans overrate all their new aquisitions.

Or maybe it's that NY fans overrate ALL of their players. I know most Yankee fans would take Derek Jeter over Alex Rodriguez (until A-Rod became a Yank himself). Most of them probably think Gary Sheffield = Manny Ramirez. Maybe it's me, but Jose Reyes sure doesn't look like A-Rod with speed, he looks more like an injury prone Jimmy Rollins. And of course, what Met fan can forget their big 3 of Wilson, Izzy, and Pulsipher. Casual Knick fans probably consider Ewing one of the best players of all-time, when in reality he's somewhere between 8-10 among centers. Ewing was never really a top 3 center in his time, and maybe Knick fans didn't notice this because all the other bigs played in the west until Shaq showed up. But more likely, it was implied that he was as good as Robinson/Olajuwon because he played in NY.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Here chronicles the rookie years of the youngest players in the last 3 drafts. Note where they all were drafted, when taking their success into account. Then ask yourself "will Ariza REALLY be any better than Kedrick Brown or Joe Forte?" Gerald Wallace was good at defense and running on the break too, and that didn't get him very far on a deep veteran team, it got him into the expansion draft.

Lebron James
Age: 19
Drafted: 1
Position: PG/SG/SF
Stats: 21/5/6 (39 mpg)

Darko Milicic
Age: 18
Drafted: 2
Position: PF/C
Stats: 1/1/0 (5 mpg)

Carmelo Anthony
Age: 19
Drafted: 3
Position: SF/PF
Stats: 21/6/3 (36 mpg)

Chris Bosh
Age: 19
Drafted: 4
Position: PF/C
Stats: 11/7/1 (33 mpg)

Aleksandar Pavlovic
Age: 20
Drafted: 19
Position: SF
Stats: 5/2/1 (14 mpg)

*Travis Outlaw
Age: 19
Drafted: 22
Position: SF
Stats: 1/0/0 (2 mpg)

Ndudi Ebi
Age: 19
Drafted: 26
Position: SF
Stats: 1/0/0 (2 mpg)*

Kendrick Perkins
Age: 19
Drafted: 27
Position: C
Stats: 2/1/0 (3 mpg)

*Maciej Lampe
Age: 18
Drafted: 30
Position: PF/C
Stats: 5/2/0 (11 mpg)

Nicholoz Tskitishvili
Age: 19
Drafted: 5
Position: SF
Stats: 4/2/1 (16 mpg)*

Dajuan Wagner
Age: 19
Drafted: 6
Position: PG/SG
Stats: 13/2/3 (29 mpg)

Nene
Age: 20
Drafted: 7
Position: PF/C
Stats: 10/6/2 (28 mpg)

Chris Wilcox
Age: 20
Drafted: 8
Position: PF/C
Stats: 4/2/0 (10 mpg)

Amare Stoudemire
Age: 20
Drafted: 9
Position: PF
Stats: 13/9/1 (31 mpg)

*Kwame Brown
Age: 19
Drafted: 1
Position: PF
Stats: 4/3/1 (14 mpg)

Tyson Chandler
Age: 19
Drafted: 2
Position: PF/C
Stats: 6/5/1 (19 mpg)

Eddy Curry
Age: 19
Drafted: 4
Position: PF/C
Stats: 7/4/0 (16 mpg)*

Eddie Griffin
Age: 19
Drafted: 7
Position: SF/PF
Stats: 9/6/1 (26 mpg)

DaSagana Diop
Age: 20
Drafted: 8
Position: C
Stats: 1/1/0 (6 mpg)

*Kedrick Brown
Age: 20
Drafted: 11
Position: SG/SF
Stats: 2/2/0 (8 mpg)*

Steven Hunter
Age: 20
Drafted: 15
Position: C
Stats: 4/2/0 (10 mpg)

Zach Randolph
Age: 20
Drafted: 19
Position: PF
Stats: 3/2/0 (6 mpg)

*Joe Forte
Age: 20
Drafted: 21
Position: SG
Stats: 1/1/1 (5 mpg)

Gerald Wallace
Age: 19
Drafted: 25
Position: SF
Stats: 3/2/0 (8 mpg)*

Samuel Dalembert
Age: 20
Drafted: 26
Position: C
Stats: 1/2/0 (5 mpg)

Tony Parker
Age: 19
Drafted: 28
Position: PG
Stats: 9/3/4 (29 mpg)

Gilbert Arenas
Age: 20
Drafted: 31
Position: PG/SG
Stats: 11/3/4 (25 mpg)

*Antonis Fotsis
Age: 20
Drafted: 49
Position: SF
Stats: 4/2/0 (16 mpg)

Alton Ford
Age: 20
Drafted: 52
Position: PF
Stats: 3/2/0 (8 mpg)

Kenny Satterfield
Age: 20
Drafted: 55
Position: PG
Stats: 5/1/3 (16 mpg)*


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Eh, it's a little bit of both. Crawford, Sweetney and Ariza are all being a bit over hyped (and perhaps TT before them, though he was 19/5 in games over 12 mins with the Knicks last year, so I've not given up on him yet!). 

The thing is, if we already had studs at those positions we probably wouldn't be so eager for success, but we're excited to see guys who can run, or dunk, or defend, or just do something to make us say weee for a change. Eisley, Shandon, KVH, KT, 40 yr old Mutombo... that was our lineup last year. I bet there are prisons that field better squads in the area... with shackles on their feet... 

And after so many picks being traded away (Layden traded 4 1st round picks in his 4 years) it's nice to see some of this athleticism come from youngins. It's fun and exciting, and it gives hope for the payroll to come down too. 

And you know what? Some of these guys just might turn out to be something.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Rashidi, wow, you are in rare form with the research today. Always enjoyable. But that just doesn't prove ANYTHING. Each one of those are individual cases. Lots of those guys will still pan out, others could have if their heads were in the right place. But none of that indicates how good Ariza will or wont be.

The kid is promising and exciting, that's all I've said and all I'll say. Anything more is too early to judge. But based upon his performances so far, scouts, blind or otherwise, will be keeping an eye on this kid.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Eh, it's a little bit of both. Crawford, Sweetney and Ariza are all being a bit over hyped (and perhaps TT before them, though he was 19/5 in games over 12 mins with the Knicks last year, so I've not given up on him yet!).


I can't believe I forgot Crawford. Someone in the papers today said he'd be an all-star this year.

Iverson, Pierce, Kidd, Marbury, Francis, Redd, Hamilton, Lebron, Arenas, and even Chauncey Billups must be chopped liver.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> I can't believe I forgot Crawford. Someone in the papers today said he'd be an all-star this year.
> ...


It is pretty funny. Kidd's injury may take him out, and I don't know if Pierce and Bron will play the 2 or 3, but still, lets see the guy shoot 40% before we crown him the king of the east.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

rashidi you are a one man think tank..

where in the world do you get all that info

very impressive...

But..NONONE in their right mind should take Derek over A-ROD


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

crawford wont be making any all star teams yet.

and bron better be the king of the east, or my fantasy team is screwed.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> DerMarr Johnson allegedly was another player on the rise, "defintiely an upgrade over Shandon Anderson", and he's not even in anyone's training camp.


Speaking of... I hear he's signed with Denver.

And speaking of Shandon (we're always speaking of Shandon), I don't get why we're not trading him for E-Rob. THeir salaries are close, both teams want to buy them out or dump em, and in switched places they seem like better fits (Chi wants hard workers, Isiah wants high flyers). Both clubs see their own as cancers and feelings are hurt all around - one can only assume a parting of the ways and a fresh start could benefit all involved.

The almost got swapped in the Crawford deal and it seemed to make sense they would, but now with both teams talking about waivings or buyouts... what's the holdup?

Edit:
Well, I just checked, relative to E-Rob Shandon has an extra year on his contract. That's probably reason enough,


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

The Bulls want to get rid of E-Rob not only because of his "cancerness", but because of the roster spot he occupies. The Bulls have a lot of people in camp and would probably prefer to keep guys they like. The Bulls don't exactly need Shandon straight up for E-Rob though, they already have Andres Nocioni and the very cheap Adrian Griffin.

I think they'll hold on to him temporarily because his salary is useful in trades. It's Chandler and Curry's contract years, and since both don't make much money, it's hard to trade them for equal value.

For instance (off top of head) if they wanted to trade Antonio Davis and Eddy Curry to the Suns for Shawn Marion and Jake Voskuhl/other filler, E-Rob's contract would be of great assistance in getting it done.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

^Not sure there's anything in there particular to E-Rob that Shandon doesn't also fulfill. The only difference I see is the extra year on Shandon's contract. Unless Erob's talents are more desirable on open market, but I doubt it, his poor work ethic, whiney demeanor, and phantom injuries don't endear him to anyone.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

in responce to rashidi,who RARELY takes a strong stance on ANYTHING

Sweetney is a double double..And before you start with numbers,Sweetney is an inside presence..KT is not..I think the knicks need an inside out game,and sweets could hopefully supply that....

JC has all star talent and Stef should bring that out...The guy is @#&&* talented...

TT is a very talented player,he defers way too much and is perfectly happy being a complimentary player,but is paid waaay to much for that...

Ariza replacing TT....Not this year,but I would not be shocked if TT is not resigned and Ariza is the starting foward for years to come...Keep in mind Rashidi,you have gone from BLASTING Zeke for the pick of Ariza,to now asking what is all the hype about...Your lamest excuse is the usual lame, because this is NYC....

As for Demmarr,I would still take him over Shandone anyday...i dont see GM's clamoring for Shandone,well except for one who is unemployed


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Unless Erob's talents are more desirable on open market, but I doubt it, his poor work ethic, whiney demeanor, and phantom injuries don't endear him to anyone.


He can dunk.



> Keep in mind Rashidi,you have gone from BLASTING Zeke for the pick of Ariza,


When did I blast the pick? The Knicks need an under 21 guy they can stash on the IR. The Knicks more or less made it known that they were going to take Ariza (as pretty much every knowledgeable mock draft had him going there). I am not enthralled by the people that were drafted after Ariza, but I don't think he is any better than they are.

Tim Pickett, Bernard Robinson, Ricky Minard, Christian Drejer, Romain Sato, and Matt Freije were taken after Ariza. All of them are going to make their team's roster (except for Drejer, who is spending a year in Europe first). That's all Ariza is doing. Making his team's roster.

This was a weak-deep draft. After the top 10, the rest of the first round is made up of mediocrity. The entire second round is made up of sub-mediocrity. They are only slightly worse (if not as good as) this year's late first rounders. This doesn't make them good players. If NY had Sasha Vujacic, Beno Urdih, or David Harrison, they'd be hyping them just as much.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> When did I blast the pick?


I stand corrected..KBF and a couple of otheres blasted him..This is some of your quotes..



> . I doubt Ariza will be with the Knicks when he is 26. He might not even be in the league





> He's looking like Tim Thomas minus the height and shooting range, but slightly better defender. Hmm. Sounds a lot like Shandon Anderson to me.


And my favorite



> I said Ariza would be starting. I never said he'd be good


BTW,i am not saying you are wrong..you may very well be right,but I do think he will be very good


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

trevor ariza is going to be a star in a few years.. maybe even an all-star


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