# if you were to trade kenyon



## Bonzinator (Dec 18, 2005)

what would you want in return


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

D Wade :biggrin: 

Seriously though. I would want another Big. Someone that is an all-star young and healthy. If I can't get that for K-Mart I wouldnt trade him if I was the Nuggets. Besides this is a down year for Kenyon. If he gets healthy and has one great season, or start of a season his trade value rockets back up.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Bonzinator said:


> what would you want in return


Who would you trade for K-Mart?


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I don't want to see K-Mart go, but his salary is huge for what he's giving us. I'm afraid that another year of waiting to see if he'll be healthy may ruin what trade value he has. IF I were to trade him, I'd try to get some first round pix and somebody like Josh Childress, or maybe a Chris Wilcox and pix. Something to fill a hole and give us space along with draft pix.

However, with Karl as coach, I see draft pix now as an afterthought.

Dude didn't even play Hodge when he was terribly short handed!


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> I don't want to see K-Mart go, but his salary is huge for what he's giving us. I'm afraid that another year of waiting to see if he'll be healthy may ruin what trade value he has. IF I were to trade him, I'd try to get some first round pix and somebody like Josh Childress, or maybe a Chris Wilcox and pix. Something to fill a hole and give us space along with draft pix.
> 
> However, with Karl as coach, I see draft pix now as an afterthought.
> 
> Dude didn't even play Hodge when he was terribly short handed!


True we have a decimated starting lineup right now do to injuries. We are not going to win a lot of games because of it. So Karl may as well start playing Hodge.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

So what if he's overpaid, we're not going to be under the cap for the near future anyways. I'd want equal or better value for him, regardless of salary. His main problem has been Andre Miller. Martin needs a running passing PG to be most effective. If he was like he was in NJ for us that would be great. His problem is that Miller becomes more of a scoring PG every year. Martin isn't a half court player.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Kmart's problem isn't Andre Miller, it's injury. The few short months when he was healthy, he was dropping 20 a game with Miller at PG. Kenyon is out of shape, injured, and struggling with his knees. He had microfracture surgery on his knees which probably should have ended his career. He will probably never be the player he was in NJ on a CONSTANT basis. We'll see flashes of brilliance from here to there, but it won't be constant.

You'll notice how Kmart uses his jumper more than his spin move right now. That's directly related to his knee issues. When your knees go, those quick movements that you used to have are delayed quite a bit (same thing that happened to my knees, roughly). You have to find other ways to compensate, and he ahs done that with the jumper.

Anytime you play maybe 50% of your games, you're not going to get into a good flow or rhythm. Watch the substituting methods of teh Nuggs...Kmart will run well for 3 minutes, then he either gets pulled or he coasts for awhile, not doing anything. Then it repeats.

Again, it's not Andre Miller's problem, it's the health of Kmart that's the problem.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> Kmart's problem isn't Andre Miller, it's injury. .


its both. when you come from playing ball with Kidd, and now your with Miller. thats a problem and it has effected his productivity even before the injury issues showed up again


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> its both. when you come from playing ball with Kidd, and now your with Miller. thats a problem and it has effected his productivity even before the injury issues showed up again


If you take Dre out of the lineup adn throw in any other PG in the league right now, you're not going to get much from him due to his injuries. Sure, Kidd is a better PG than Dre, I'm not going to debate that, however, you can put Kmart with ANY PG right now and he'll be sub-par due to his injury history. He can't run, he can't jump, he can't rebound...if he were healthy, then maybe other people, Dre included, wouldn't have to pick up the slack that he's left when he's on the court. Dre is averaging more boards per game than Kmart is, but if Kmart were healthy, Dre wouldn't have to worry about helping on the boards as much, and therefore MAY be able to run a little more.


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## scooter (Oct 22, 2003)

With his contract, right now he's basically worthless from a trade standpoint.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> If you take Dre out of the lineup adn throw in any other PG in the league right now, you're not going to get much from him due to his injuries. Sure, Kidd is a better PG than Dre, I'm not going to debate that, however, you can put Kmart with ANY PG right now and he'll be sub-par due to his injury history. He can't run, he can't jump, he can't rebound...if he were healthy, then maybe other people, Dre included, wouldn't have to pick up the slack that he's left when he's on the court. Dre is averaging more boards per game than Kmart is, but if Kmart were healthy, Dre wouldn't have to worry about helping on the boards as much, and therefore MAY be able to run a little more.


i was simply answering the question as to what was Kmarts problem. Even when healthy he couldnt live up to his contract. the only way he could would be to be traded back to NJ or to be traded to the suns. Kenyon's problem is Dre and his injuries. To be frank, go and read some columns on Dre. Denver needs a Nash or Kidd, or even TJ Ford type PG for KMart to play at his best even when healthy.

However scooter, Kenyon Martin is not worthless from a trade standpoint


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Whats so hard to understand that Kenyon hasn't been healthy since he came to the Nuggets ? Just because he just had surgery this summer doesn't mean Kenyon was healthy day one with the Nuggets. Kenyon should of had surgery after the last playoffs he was in with New Jersey. Thats how far back Kenyons knee issues go. To simply say its because of Miller Kenyons stats are down is an excuse and one I wont stand by.

Also to say Kenyon would play better along side Nash,Kidd,T.J. Ford etc has zero relevance to Kenyons production right now. You can plug any border line all star next to those point guards and they will probably be better. The same can be said with Shaq. When players play next to Shaq they usually have better years than before. To try and blame this on Miller is shameful at best.

Also I would like to add regarding the Nuggets running, and Andre Miller. Miller is in the top 5 in assists in the league ahead of even Jason Kidd and T.J. Ford. And the Nuggets are the number one fast breaking team in the league.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Whats so hard to understand that Kenyon hasn't been healthy since he came to the Nuggets ? .


the guys had injury issues since college, however when he was on the floor (even when playing hurt) in New Jersey he was more effective. 

for those that dont see why Kidd made Kenyon a better player, they just didnt watch the Nets play ball. 

as for Andre Miller, so your telling me that myself, other posters and various sportswriters are wrong for saying Andre Miller is good point guard, just not right for Denver?

I hate to always be on the negative side of Andre Miller talk, but somebody has to do it. He's not the glue of this team, he is a good player but not the glue. 

Plus he makes a decent salary which is the main reason I bring him up so much in trade talks. For financial reasons, to make the deal work.

You all gotta understand, Im not Miller hatin, but when statements like Miller being the "glue" of this team surface, I have to disagree. Camby, Melo sure. Miller, no.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

> the guys had injury issues since college, however when he was on the floor (even when playing hurt) in New Jersey he was more effective.


A broken bone he had in college compared to his injury in the pros are not even comparable.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

> as for Andre Miller, so your telling me that myself, other posters and various sportswriters are wrong for saying Andre Miller is good point guard, just not right for Denver?


I don't agree with that myself. However my point is that it's not Miller that isn't getting the job done for Kenyon from a production stand point. That problem is because of Kenyons injury. You take away K-marts jumping ability and speed. He is not going to be the same player regardless of the point guard.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> I don't agree with that myself. However my point is that it's not Miller that isn't getting the job done for Kenyon from a production stand point. That problem is because of Kenyons injury. You take away K-marts jumping ability and speed. He is not going to be the same player regardless of the point guard.


thats were we, and probably almost everyone else disagree, that without a guy like Kidd, Kenyon Martin would never play at the level he did in New Jersey. Is Andre Miller to be blamed for this? No, but from a standpoint of Kenyon getting back to the level he once was at, being healthy again alone wont do it.

In basketball certain players bring out the best in other players. Jason Kidd did that in Kenyon Martin. So playing with Andre Miller is one of Kenyon's problems in getting back to the level he once was on.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> thats were we, and probably almost everyone else disagree, that without a guy like Kidd, Kenyon Martin would never play at the level he did in New Jersey. Is Andre Miller to be blamed for this? No, but from a standpoint of Kenyon getting back to the level he once was at, being healthy again alone wont do it.
> 
> In basketball certain players bring out the best in other players. Jason Kidd did that in Kenyon Martin. So playing with Andre Miller is one of Kenyon's problems in getting back to the level he once was on.


I agree that Kidd was a big part of Kenyons success, but it sounds like to me you are underestimating Kenyon a little bit. Kenyon worked his tail off to become the player he was. No doubt having Kidd helped him, but K-mart deserves some props. Also Andre Miller has never had the opportunity to play with a healthy Kenyon as Kidd did. So I don't think it's fair at all to compare Kenyon from his New Jersey days to the Kenyon the Nuggets signed. Not because of the different make up of the teams, but because Kenyon hasn't been healthy since joining the Nuggets. As I already said you take away Kenyons jumping ability and speed there is no way he will be the player he was in New Jersey. Trying to blame Miller for Kenyons lack of production is shameful.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Trying to blame Miller for Kenyons lack of production is shameful.


thats what ive been saying. Not only is Kenyons problems injuries but who he is playing with as well. All I am saying is Kidd isnt Miller. Thats not Millers fault nor am I blaming him. Im just making the point. 

We can take a poll in the NBA general forum. Im confident the fans would agree a healthy kenyon would play better with Kidd than Andre Miller.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> thats what ive been saying. Not only is Kenyons problems injuries but who he is playing with as well. All I am saying is Kidd isnt Miller. Thats not Millers fault nor am I blaming him. Im just making the point.
> 
> We can take a poll in the NBA general forum. Im confident the fans would agree a healthy kenyon would play better with Kidd than Andre Miller.


Thats not fair though, because you could make a good case any NBA player would do better running along side a healthy Jason kidd versus Andre Miller. That was never my dispute. My only dispute was people putting the lack of production by Kenyon on Millers shoulders. Thats not fair to do because Kenyon isn't healthy.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

The question is what are you trying to measure? PPG, RPG, APG, FG%, what? Sure Kenyon looked better when playing with Kidd as Kidd certainly made the game easier for Kenyon when Kenyon had less experience.

However, I will point out that Kenyon scored 1.2 PPG less last season than he did the season before in NJ. So while I agree that Dre doesn't always do the best things for the team's total offense, he isn't hurting Kenyon's PPG from a historical standpoint. Now Kenyon's RPG did drop by 2.2 RPG; however, he was also playing with Camby and Kenyon had never played with another interior player that was a better rebounder than him.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Thats not fair though, because you could make a good case any NBA player would do better running along side a healthy Jason kidd versus Andre Miller. That was never my dispute. My only dispute was people putting the lack of production by Kenyon on Millers shoulders. Thats not fair to do because Kenyon isn't healthy.


Im not trying to put blame on anyone. However I do feel like we need to be honest in stating the facts. Your talking about lack of production, im talking about Kenyon playing as well as he did in the past. The answer is both the players on the team and his injuries. He isnt in the same situation as before either. He doesnt have the same point guard that got him that big contract, so when it comes to listing obstacles to him getting back to where he was, injuries and not playing with Jason Kidd, top that list.

now sure he can be productive with Andre Miller. He could drop 13 points grab some boards and block a shot or two. But then he wouldnt be where he once was, he'd be productive however


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> The question is what are you trying to measure? PPG, RPG, APG, FG%, what? Sure Kenyon looked better when playing with Kidd as Kidd certainly made the game easier for Kenyon when Kenyon had less experience.
> 
> However, I will point out that Kenyon scored 1.2 PPG less last season than he did the season before in NJ. So while I agree that Dre doesn't always do the best things for the team's total offense, he isn't hurting Kenyon's PPG from a historical standpoint. Now Kenyon's RPG did drop by 2.2 RPG; however, he was also playing with Camby and Kenyon had never played with another interior player that was a better rebounder than him.


im not saying Andre is doing anything to hurt Kenyon's play. I'm just stating that when measuring total performance, Kidd helped make Kenyon the player he was


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> Im not trying to put blame on anyone. However I do feel like we need to be honest in stating the facts. Your talking about lack of production, im talking about Kenyon playing as well as he did in the past. The answer is both the players on the team and his injuries. He isnt in the same situation as before either. He doesnt have the same point guard that got him that big contract, so when it comes to listing obstacles to him getting back to where he was, injuries and not playing with Jason Kidd, top that list.
> 
> now sure he can be productive with Andre Miller. He could drop 13 points grab some boards and block a shot or two. But then he wouldnt be where he once was, he'd be productive however


I give Kidd a lot of credit for Kenyons success. However I also give Kenyon props as well. I think you underestimate Kenyon some what. I believe Kenyon when healthy would be a great player for the Nuggets like he was for the Nets. Also keep in mind we haven't seen a healthy Kenyon like he was in New Jersey.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> I give Kidd a lot of credit for Kenyons success. However I also give Kenyon props as well. I think you underestimate Kenyon some what. I believe Kenyon when healthy would be a great player for the Nuggets like he was for the Nets. Also keep in mind we haven't seen a healthy Kenyon like he was in New Jersey.


this is what I do. I give point guards a lot of credit that can make the players around them the best they can be. Which is why im anti Marbury and Pro guys like Steve Nash and Jason Kidd.........and even Andre Miller.

the majority of people said shaq deserved to be the mvp last year, and nash was basically riding Amare's coattails. well now those critics have to eat their words. so i do give PGs a lot of credit on occasion. true.

but im also critical of them as well. like in New York Id be trying to trade Marbury left and right. Now I wouldnt have Dre on the block if I was in denver, but I would listen to serious offers to make the team better. Id trade him, but it has to be whats best for the team


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> this is what I do. I give point guards a lot of credit that can make the players around them the best they can be. Which is why im anti Marbury and Pro guys like Steve Nash and Jason Kidd.........and even Andre Miller.
> 
> the majority of people said shaq deserved to be the mvp last year, and nash was basically riding Amare's coattails. well now those critics have to eat their words. so i do give PGs a lot of credit on occasion. true.
> 
> but im also critical of them as well. like in New York Id be trying to trade Marbury left and right. Now I wouldnt have Dre on the block if I was in denver, but I would listen to serious offers to make the team better. Id trade him, but it has to be whats best for the team


The thing about Shaq/Nash last season is they both did the same things from two different positions. Also Shaq was more of a force on defense. Nash doesn't play defense. And Shaq's team put up a much stronger case in the playoffs than Steve Nash and the Suns. IMO Shaq did deserve that MVP over Nash. Nash/Suns were exploited by the Spurs a more balanced team ala the Pistons and Heat. Anyways thats another debate.

We will see regarding Kenyon when he beomes fully healthy if Miller and him will be great together or not. IMO they will be stellar together. Nobody throws the lob better in the league than Miller. Something Melo/Camby/Kenyon love. The problem has been Kenyons injuries he just cant go like he use to. It's really frustrating becasue we all know what K-mart is capable of doing.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Just for the sake of curosity, I checked the following for Kenyon:

2003-2004 per 48 minutes stats
PPG: 23.2
RPG: 13.2
BPG: 1.8
APG: 3.5
SPG: 2.1

2004-2005 per 48
PPG: 22.9
RPG: 10.8
BPG: 1.6
APG: 3.5
SPG: 2.1

2005-2006 per 48
PPG: 21.7
RPG: 9.5
BPG: 1.6
APG: 2.8
SPG: 1.1


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> The thing about Shaq/Nash last season is they both did the same things from two different positions. Also Shaq was more of a force on defense. Nash doesn't play defense. And Shaq's team put up a much stronger case in the playoffs than Steve Nash and the Suns. IMO Shaq did deserve that MVP over Nash. Nash/Suns were exploited by the Spurs a more balanced team ala the Pistons and Heat. Anyways thats another debate.
> 
> We will see regarding Kenyon when he beomes fully healthy if Miller and him will be great together or not. IMO they will be stellar together. Nobody throws the lob better in the league than Miller. Something Melo/Camby/Kenyon love. The problem has been Kenyons injuries he just cant go like he use to. It's really frustrating becasue we all know what K-mart is capable of doing.


unfortunately I disagree. I was afraid that by having Camby Nene and Kmart all on the same team, we might be setting ourselves up for a load of injuries. and that indeed has been a problem. which is why im ok with shopping Kenyon as well as listening to deals involving Andre Miller. 

And I see good deals out there too. The bulls have fallen below .500. Ben Gordon has got to be pissed about losing and having to come off the bench. He came in the game and was on fire tonight. I really really wish we had him. Id like to get him and Tim Thomas back, for a package. Basically Sweetney started at center for them. That guy certainly hasnt lost any weight. But that trade is something I think the bulls should pursue. Chandler looks like he really needs someone else around him to play well. Id like to ship Kenyon Martin out to chicago.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Kenyon had a good season last year even playing with an injury.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Something I read about Kenyon this season vs. last season is that he isn't able to push himself up the court and be ahead of the basketball. Karl was saying he can only do that for the first 3-5 minutes. After that he is always behind everyone else when the Nuggets are running. Also apparently with kenyons knee tendinitis he can't jump as well. Kenyon was even quoted as saying his knee is fine to run on its the jumping that brings in all the pain.

So Kenyon has a few things going against him so far this season. One his jumping explosion is being hampered post-surgery with his knee tendinitis. Also he is winded now. He isn't in game shape because he is missing so many games and practice. This is going to be a game by game season for Kenyon at best.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> Just for the sake of curosity, I checked the following for Kenyon:
> 
> 2003-2004 per 48 minutes stats
> PPG: 23.2
> ...


i hate that per 48 stat, but mostly for an unrelated reason. first players dont average 48 minutes a game. and there is the "getting tired factor" and it is used to show why reserves are better players than they are. this isnt for Kenyon case, but with a reserve when they come off the bench they are usually playing other reserves or they arent playing against a full starting lineup. Im just not a big fan of the 48 minutes stat


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> i hate that per 48 stat, but mostly for an unrelated reason. first players dont average 48 minutes a game. and there is the "getting tired factor" and it is used to show why reserves are better players than they are. this isnt for Kenyon case, but with a reserve when they come off the bench they are usually playing other reserves or they arent playing against a full starting lineup. Im just not a big fan of the 48 minutes stat


While I would love to have a debate about the merits of per 48 and per 40 minute stats, I believe this is an appropriate use of them as they are dealing with trends of one player that has had fairly consistent minutes except for this season.

The big point of this is that when Kenyon does play, he is helping the team and he is contributing at a decent rate for the minutes he has been able to play. Now, that said, I'm less concerned with any of these stats then how he is doing in the unmeasured things such as defense and where he is scoring from.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> The big point of this is that when Kenyon does play, he is helping the team and he is contributing at a decent rate for the minutes he has been able to play. Now, that said, I'm less concerned with any of these stats then how he is doing in the unmeasured things such as defense and where he is scoring from.


i dont disagree. i wouldn never say Kenyon doesnt contribute or is unproductive. 

In my past posts im just trying to be honest, that Kenyon had it pretty sweet in New Jersey. I would not disagree that right now injuries are his "biggest" problem either.

My main point is, with Kenyon, Nene, and Camby all on the team, the injuries will continue to mount. I believe its 23AJ the is pointing to players ability to play all 82 games as a big plus. SO with all these injuries I do have to assume that Kiki is listening to trade proposals involving players like Kenyon Martin and Nene (unlikely to both be traded however).

There are some packages we should be looking at.....

to get in return..... id say the perfect situation would be to get a talented two guard and an underrated F or C

packages could include Ray Allen and Nick Collison or Reggie Evans
Paul Pierce and Kendrick Perkins
Ben Gordon and Nocionni or Tim Thomas
Peja and Kenny Thomas or Bibby and Kenny Thomas

Players denver is actively looking to trade are Watson and Lenard. However they dont have a huge amount of value right now. Watson has more than Vo, but you can see how players like Miller or Nene or Kmart would have to be involved in the trade, even just to get the salaries to match on a big deal.


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## The Rebirth (Dec 23, 2005)

the sixers might be willing to trade c webb straight up for kenyon. heck, we'll even give you guys a second pick! 

we'd do anything to get rid of c webb's 20 million dollar contract


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

The Rebirth said:


> the sixers might be willing to trade c webb straight up for kenyon. heck, we'll even give you guys a second pick!
> 
> we'd do anything to get rid of c webb's 20 million dollar contract


the only player that interests me (that I think we could actually trade for) is Kyle Korver, who would be a great sixth man. Nuggets posters seem to want to replace boykins production off the bench with someone else. Korver is a specialist that might fit the bill in that department. But I highly doubt denver would be involved in a trade with the 76ers. I could see Korver taking some pressure off of melo however. 

the thing is, you cant give up anybody like Andre Miller or Martin, or even Nene to acquire Korver. If we did, I think its a bad deal for us


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The Rebirth said:


> the sixers might be willing to trade c webb straight up for kenyon. heck, we'll even give you guys a second pick!
> 
> we'd do anything to get rid of c webb's 20 million dollar contract


We are not going to trade for C Webb, besides he is on the down side of his career. Thanksf or the suggestion though.... :angel: :biggrin:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> the only player that interests me (that I think we could actually trade for) is Kyle Korver, who would be a great sixth man. Nuggets posters seem to want to replace boykins production off the bench with someone else. Korver is a specialist that might fit the bill in that department. But I highly doubt denver would be involved in a trade with the 76ers. I could see Korver taking some pressure off of melo however.
> 
> the thing is, you cant give up anybody like Andre Miller or Martin, or even Nene to acquire Korver. If we did, I think its a bad deal for us


I agree about Kyle Korver. I have really seen improvement in him this season compared to last season. He is starting to be able to hit that stop and pop shot more. The guy is going to just continue to get better.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

Come on guys, let's stop talking about trading Kenyon. He's been good with us when healthy. i want him around for his defense... him and Camby make a great interior D tandem, we need him if we are to go far.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

nugzhomer said:


> Come on guys, let's stop talking about trading Kenyon. He's been good with us when healthy. i want him around for his defense... him and Camby make a great interior D tandem, we need him if we are to go far.


i dont mind the trade talk, as long as we get the right deal back in return to make the team better. thats kinda why i've talked about trades with Kenyon Martin and Andre Miller. While these guys are talented they arent untouchable like Camby and Melo. So Im ok with the trade talk, but it has to be for the right deal. And of course the first option is to trade Watson. However our organization may not want to keep Nene and Kenyon on this team


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

It is highly disputable that Kenyon is productive when he does play. 

I think there are people on this board who do not want to entertain the possibility that Kenyon isn't as good of a player that we believed we got when he first came here. 

Watch Kenyon play. He spends way too much time standing around when he could be getting a rebound or blocking a shot. On top of that, his shot selection is highly questionable, though his perimeter shooting has been good this year. 

90 million and three first round draft picks? I don't think he's been worth half of that. He'll have to show a lot more for me to be sold. Right now he's an average player.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nugzhomer said:


> Come on guys, let's stop talking about trading Kenyon. He's been good with us when healthy. i want him around for his defense... him and Camby make a great interior D tandem, we need him if we are to go far.


Well I'm sure some Nuggets players might be a little bent out of shape when they hear, they may be involved in a trade. However if its for the best interest of the team then trades will happen. I like Kenyon as well though, and hope he gets healthy and stays in Denver.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

Come on guys, let's not hate on Kenyon who wants to be here and is working hard to get back in shape. Hate on losers like Lenard, why is no one talking about trading his sorry ***? 

We're not getting under the cap in the reasonable future. Do you want to trade Kenyon for spare parts or expiring contracts and make our team worse? Let's not take a step back. We just need to adjust our system a little to make Kenyon do what he does best, and let's not hate on a guy who wants to be a Nugget. Remember he could have went to Atlanta if he wanted more money.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

nugzhomer said:


> Come on guys, let's not hate on Kenyon who wants to be here and is working hard to get back in shape. Hate on losers like Lenard, why is no one talking about trading his sorry ***?
> 
> We're not getting under the cap in the reasonable future. Do you want to trade Kenyon for spare parts or expiring contracts and make our team worse? Let's not take a step back. We just need to adjust our system a little to make Kenyon do what he does best, and let's not hate on a guy who wants to be a Nugget. Remember he could have went to Atlanta if he wanted more money.


if you traded for expiring contracts (a la tim thomas in a ben gordon deal) then you would be under the cap. Could have went to atlanta for more money? How much more was atlanta going to pay him? Id say he did quite well. youve got to be open to trading kenyon or nene at this point. it all just depends on how good the deal is


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Doesn't look like the Nuggets are trying to trade Kenyon.

The guys on the block as of now it seems are, Nene/Watson/Lenard.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> if you traded for expiring contracts (a la tim thomas in a ben gordon deal) then you would be under the cap. Could have went to atlanta for more money? How much more was atlanta going to pay him? Id say he did quite well. youve got to be open to trading kenyon or nene at this point. it all just depends on how good the deal is


Atlanta offered him the max. He took less (slightly) from us to win. He wants to be here so I want him here. Not like Voshon.

Plus what happens if we traded for Ben Gordon and Tim Thomas. How will that help us? We'd have no big men then except Camby and if he got hurt we'd be so screwed. You're ready to quit on this season and downgrade in talent on a guy who wants to be with this team and will give 110% every night? I don't.

We'd have to get a very good deal before I get rid of Kenyon.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

nugzhomer said:


> Atlanta offered him the max. He took less (slightly) from us to win. He wants to be here so I want him here. Not like Voshon.
> 
> Plus what happens if we traded for Ben Gordon and Tim Thomas. How will that help us? We'd have no big men then except Camby and if he got hurt we'd be so screwed. You're ready to quit on this season and downgrade in talent on a guy who wants to be with this team and will give 110% every night? I don't.
> 
> We'd have to get a very good deal before I get rid of Kenyon.


getting ben gordon and Tim Thomas is a good deal. He (kmart) took damn near the max. We paid him a lot more than the nets would. Voshon wasnt the answer at SG. So it really doesnt matter what he wants, because he's not what we need. If we got Tim Thomas and Ben Gordon, plus bringing in Artest. That would be huge. You certainly arent downgrading or tossing in the towel for this season. However, you are setting yourself up to be even better in the following seasons. And with a young guy like Carmelo Anthony (in a conference thats going to be wide open in a couple years) I think thats ok.

Lets say we did trade Kenyon Martin (and filler) for Tim Thomas and Ben Gordon.

In that situation youd have to start Tim Thomas at PF. Not ideal, but you can sign trade or draft for a nice PF in the off season. Then the team will truely be stacked. If your going to start both Carmelo and Artest, then youd have Ben Gordon coming of the bench and playing big minutes. Meaning Earl Boykins is now expandable, because Gordon would be one hell of a spark off the bench. Maybe you could trade Earl Boykins for a PF. There are plenty of teams that want Earl.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

Come on man, our big rotation would be Tim Thomas (sucks, not a PF), Camby, Najera, Elson, and Kleiza. Let's be for real now, we'd be knocked out in the 1st round easy with that.

Plus Gordon is overrated. He's 1 dimensional very streaky scorer who plays no defense. Plus there is no guarantee we sign anyone in the offseason and even if we did, we'd have to overpay because that's how free agency works. I want to keep Kenyon. If we had Miller/Anthony/Artest/Kenyon/Camby that right there is challenging Detroit for best starting 5 and best defense.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

nugzhomer said:


> Come on man, our big rotation would be Tim Thomas (sucks, not a PF), Camby, Najera, Elson, and Kleiza. Let's be for real now, we'd be knocked out in the 1st round easy with that.
> 
> Plus Gordon is overrated. .


 
Some question if we are even going to the playoffs now. Let's be real now, the west is going to be wide open in a few years. So if you have the chance to add Artest and Gordon (while there value is down) you jump on it.

Then you can improve your rotation in the frontcourt over the summer. As for TT, Id compare him the Jerry Stackhouse. Everyone said he sucked a few years ago in Washington. Then he comes in to a Dallas team and becomes a key contributor in the rotation. Stackhouse was supposed to be a locker room cancer. Now when he goes down his team cant wait to get him back. Tim Thomas just needs to find the right situation for him. He never became the player people thought he would. Ok but that doesnt mean he sucks

Ben Gordon is a clutch player. He is young guy who is still years away from his prime. If we stole him from the bulls they would regret it for years.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Whats being reported right now by the Nuggets beat writers. Is that Nene/Watson are on the trade block, and not Kenyon.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Whats being reported right now by the Nuggets beat writers. Is that Nene/Watson are on the trade block, and not Kenyon.


true, but comment on the gordon trade


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## The_Legend_23 (Dec 10, 2005)

a power forward who can bang


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

Also take into consideration that you could do a Gordon trade in the offseason, without having the need to take TT if you don't want to. Also this would give you the cap space required to sign another PF, which won't be as good as K-Mart, but won't cost the moon either, plus any offensive deficiencies would be covered with Gordon. You could also extend Nene.

Would you be up to a Gordon, our first rounder and the rights to the Knicks pick swap in 07 for Martin?
Ignoring any possible trade for Artest, and utilizing FA to sign Gooden (or another PF), the team would look like:
Miller, Watson, Boykins
Gordon, Johnson, Hodge
Anthony, Najera
Gooden, Nene, Kleiza
Camby, Elson

Its an interesting lineup


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> true, but comment on the gordon trade


Im not sold on Gordon yet. I been paying attention to him this season as well. He seems very streaky. I'm not sure if this had to do with him coming off the bench or what. The guy can hit 10 straight shots, but not show up for an entire quarter afterwards. However I will stay open minded on Gordon since he is still young and has a lot of potential.

However I never want to see Tim Thomas in a Nuggets uniform. That would also kind of be a slap in the face to Kenyon. As we know K-Mart and Tim Thomas have a fued between the two. IMO also Thomas has never reached his potential. He has all world talaent, but never honed it in. I think the best days for Thomas are behind him.

We need to keep Kenyon with Nene on the trade block now IMO.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

step said:


> Also take into consideration that you could do a Gordon trade in the offseason, without having the need to take TT if you don't want to. Also this would give you the cap space required to sign another PF, which won't be as good as K-Mart, but won't cost the moon either, plus any offensive deficiencies would be covered with Gordon. You could also extend Nene.
> 
> Would you be up to a Gordon, our first rounder and the rights to the Knicks pick swap in 07 for Martin?
> Ignoring any possible trade for Artest, and utilizing FA to sign Gooden (or another PF), the team would look like:
> ...


Gooden doesn't have enough inside prescence. IMO Gooden is a scorer. We need an inside player that can do it on the defensive end. Especially in the western conference at PF.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Im not sold on Gordon yet. I been paying attention to him this season as well. He seems very streaky. I'm not sure if this had to do with him coming off the bench or what. The guy can hit 10 straight shots, but not show up for an entire quarter afterwards. However I will stay open minded on Gordon since he is still young and has a lot of potential.
> 
> However I never want to see Tim Thomas in a Nuggets uniform. That would also kind of be a slap in the face to Kenyon. As we know K-Mart and Tim Thomas have a fued between the two. IMO also Thomas has never reached his potential. He has all world talaent, but never honed it in. I think the best days for Thomas are behind him.
> 
> We need to keep Kenyon with Nene on the trade block now IMO.


Gordon would have it a lot easier if AD and Curry were still on the team. Chandler has turned into a Pansy. So the bulls have no center.

Plus defenses now primary focus on Gordon. They have adjusted to him, and they have been able to easier, since they dont have to deal with players in the low post.

Gordon is Mr. Clutch, and Mr. Fourth Quarter. Its too bad they dont give him more minutes and more of a role. Skiles has dropped the ball with this fued, IMO


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> Gordon would have it a lot easier if AD and Curry were still on the team. Chandler has turned into a Pansy. So the bulls have no center.
> 
> Plus defenses now primary focus on Gordon. They have adjusted to him, and they have been able to easier, since they dont have to deal with players in the low post.
> 
> Gordon is Mr. Clutch, and Mr. Fourth Quarter. Its too bad they dont give him more minutes and more of a role. Skiles has dropped the ball with this fued, IMO


Well it seems Gordon wants to stay with the Bulls from his comments. However its true that maybe a new scenery with a starting role Gordon would make a bigger impact.

By the way I agree with your sentiments concerning Chandler.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Well it seems Gordon wants to stay with the Bulls from his comments. However its true that maybe a new scenery with a starting role Gordon would make a bigger impact.
> 
> By the way I agree with your sentiments concerning Chandler.


i have no doubt gordon would blossom in denver. imo gordon's comments are what we should expect from him. he cant pull a ron artest. that would hurt his rep, and it would hurt his value come contract time. watson doesnt want to take the blow to his rep either


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> i have no doubt gordon would blossom in denver. imo gordon's comments are what we should expect from him. he cant pull a ron artest. that would hurt his rep, and it would hurt his value come contract time. watson doesnt want to take the blow to his rep either


Good point these NBA players are keeping their wits with them. Playing it smart, and waiting for something to pan out and move on. No doubt Gordon as a starter would be a big plus for him. I'm suprised the Kirk Hinrich starts over him. I saw him play against the Cavs and he looked down right horrible.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Good point these NBA players are keeping their wits with them. Playing it smart, and waiting for something to pan out and move on. No doubt Gordon as a starter would be a big plus for him. I'm suprised the Kirk Hinrich starts over him. I saw him play against the Cavs and he looked down right horrible.


im surprised chris duhon starts over him. duhon seems like a good nba backup. personally they could have used watson IMO


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> im surprised chris duhon starts over him. duhon seems like a good nba backup. personally they could have used watson IMO


It's Duhon? I thought Duhon was the PG ? And Kirk was the SG? If not then you are right my bad.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> It's Duhon? I thought Duhon was the PG ? And Kirk was the SG? If not then you are right my bad.


neither of us are wrong. gordon is a combo, and kirk is a combo. id play kirk, ben and deng. Id start them all. With that Nocioni guy. And then id trade for a center. Done deal


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> neither of us are wrong. gordon is a combo, and kirk is a combo. id play kirk, ben and deng. Id start them all. With that Nocioni guy. And then id trade for a center. Done deal


Okay that makes sense. I also like that lineup. Nocioni is by far my favorite player on the Bulls team though even over Gordon. To me Nocioni is an Artest clone.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

frankly, i'll trade KMART for odom...

what a disappointment


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

pac4eva5 said:


> frankly, i'll trade KMART for odom...
> 
> what a disappointment


Odom plays Melos position so that really wouldn't work.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

23AJ said:


> Odom plays Melos position so that really wouldn't work.


haha. ya. i was sort of kidding. a banged up KMART is averages just less than odom. odom is soft.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

23AJ said:


> Well it seems Gordon wants to stay with the Bulls from his comments. However its true that maybe a new scenery with a starting role Gordon would make a bigger impact.
> 
> By the way I agree with your sentiments concerning Chandler.


actually he had some interesting comments. the guy take responsiblity for his role. but blamed coach skiles for not running plays for him.

also pissed that he doesnt start, and doesnt finish games. I think the kid is right. they might as well sink or swim with him on the floor. cuz they sure cant seem to keep their head above water now


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## scooter (Oct 22, 2003)

Grizzlies trade idea -- 

Nuggets trade:
Martin
Miller
Vo

Grizzlies trade:
Wright
M. Miller
Warrick

From a talent standpoint, the Grizzlies might be getting the better of the deal, but it addresses two serious needs for the Nuggets. Number 1, Camby is out at least a month with the finger surgery. Without adding somewhat who can hold down the fort at center, we are screwed. Seriously, we cannot win with our current lineup and Camby out. Wright, who's contract is expiring, can fill in. Number 2, Mike Miller can give us the outside shooting we need and a bigger guy at the 2. He's a little slow to guard some SGs but he's still a big upgrade overall vs. what we have. Warrick is a bit of a throw in but maybe he'll help keep Carmelo happy even though we wouldn't be bringing in Artest, which is reportedly what Carmelo wants. Overall, the deal certainly reduces our talent at PG but it addresses two very serious needs at C and SG. And it might improve our chemistry. And works under the salary cap.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

Don't trade Kenyon! Don't you guys notice the difference when he's out there? Even at the 30% he can give us right now he's fantastic. He's the one who pulls down every rebound, he's the guy who is the threat down low and makes the defense work. He will help our team tremendously. He just needs to rest and *fully* recover so that he doesn't reinjury anything!


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