# Rashad McCants allegations



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-ba...rth-carolina-roy-williams-afam-studies-060614

For some reason I can not find the thread about all of the alleged academic fraud that happened at UNC around 2011.

I do not necessarily believe McCants, for the simple fact that I can't believe Roy Williams would have stuck his neck out for that idiot while he had a loaded team. I don't doubt that they cheated at UNC, but I don't think McCants was good enough for them to have taken the chance he claims they did.



> Former North Carolina star Rashad McCants said in an interview with ESPN's "Outside the Lines" that tutors at the school wrote his term papers and he remained eligible because he took bogus classes -- corroborating allegations of academic fraud at UNC first made public in 2011.


This is what I doubt most, because this is the sort of blatant academic fraud that even the most idiotic coach would know to be a line you could not cross.



> He also noted that Williams said: "We're going to be able to change a class from, you know, your summer session class and swap it out with the class that you failed, just so the GPA could reflect that you are in good standing."


I lol'ed when I got to the part about McCants saying he was doing this for the kids. None of the guys McCants played with are nearly so amused and he's being called out pretty loudly on social media by them and others.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

You realize basically every single NCAA ball player doesn't have to put in any effort in their schooling, correct?

Or do you honestly think they're held to the same academic standards as the rest of the students?


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Please watch - *Schooled: The Price of College Sports*


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

R-Star said:


> You realize basically every single NCAA ball player doesn't have to put in any effort in their schooling, correct?
> 
> Or do you honestly think they're held to the same academic standards as the rest of the students?



I know that Academics are a joke to most of them, but Academic fraud is not a joke. Roy Williams can not coach his way out of a wet paper bag, but I don't think he's that big of a fool.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Diable said:


> I know that Academics are a joke to most of them, but Academic fraud is not a joke. Roy Williams can not coach his way out of a wet paper bag, but I don't think he's that big of a fool.


You can't go to college and just act like school is a joke and put in no effort, especially if you have no business being there in the first place like most athletes. 

Everyone knows full well they just get a free pass.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

If you know what you are doing you pretty much can go to school and put in very little effort. You just have to do your homework and figure out which professors and courses are easy to pass. In the SEC they just design an entire curriculum which basically results in your getting a college degree in Eligibility. 

However that is not academic fraud, it's more like academic chicanery. The NCAA will go Old Testament on your ass if they catch you changing grades and if Roy Williams did that, then he's getting fired. More to the point he knows he's going to be fired if he did it.


----------



## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Why the hell do you call out someone for doing this for you and basically say your education was shit. He sure didn't have a problem with this while it was happening.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Would any of these guys stay eligible without tutors


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

ATLien said:


> Would any of these guys stay eligible without tutors



https://twitter.com/MathMeetsFball

yeah, Diss' new favorite Mathematician I'm betting.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2013CeMDA.115..233U


----------



## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

ATLien said:


> Would any of these guys stay eligible without tutors


I think if you go to Stanford, or even Vanderbilt your pretty much doing your own work. Yeah maybe you have a tutor, but thats not against the rules, tons of college kids get a tutor.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Diable said:


> I do not necessarily believe McCants, for the simple fact that I can't believe Roy Williams would have stuck his neck out for that idiot while he had a loaded team. I don't doubt that they cheated at UNC, but I don't think McCants was good enough for them to have taken the chance he claims they did.


Mccants was their leading scorer for 2 years. Also I doubt you had to be the best player in order to receive special treatment. Wherever the bar was set I'm pretty sure that Mccants being one of the main guys on that team was above it.

That said I'm not sure about McCants motives. If this is a money move for him I don't see where the money is coming from. On a broader scale if this leads to more schools getting exposed it will make the fact that NCAA athletes not getting paid even more of a robbery. I see a lot of people argue that these guys shouldn't be paid because they are getting a free education when in fact a lot of them are just getting a free bachelor's degree probably in some bullshit field without ever learning anything.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Didn't UNC get caught doing pretty much exactly this with some of their football players? If so, it doesn't seem like a huge leap to imagine the school doing what they were already doing, just for a top player in another program.


----------



## Gronehestu (Oct 9, 2013)

Most priceless quotes of the new season, and the new season hasn't even started: 

“I have no idea. I don’t sit in the classroom; I don’t turn in their papers, but I find that impossible for me to believe.”

and 

"Some things have happened that shouldn’t have happened. I tell the kids all the time, 'You’re accountable, you’re responsible'.’' - Roy Williams, UNC head basketball coach, in an interview with Jay Bilas on ESPN, responding to questions about whether Williams knew of any academic misconduct (such as Rashad McCants has described) took place in and around his basketball team in years past. 

So to summarize the things which we are to infer from the things Roy said directly in response to this shitstorm 

1) He doesn't know if fraud such as McCants described happened or not

2) Even so, we're to believe that he thinks it impossible that such things could have happened. Because, after all, he has no idea. 

3) But, some things that shouldn't have happened did, in fact, happen. Even though he thinks it's impossible that things that shouldn't have happened indeed did happen

4) He believes it's not his responsibility to monitor closely how the academic side of his student-athletes' college experience is going

5) He makes it known to his student-athletes that they are all accountable and responsible for everything all the time, despite the fact that he literally cannot seem to be accountable or responsible himself. Or to even decide what he's accountable or responsible for, and also whether or not anything exists which he could, possibly, be accountable or responsible for. 

Absolutely _magnificent_. 

And the cherry on top of all of this is that the interview was conducted about 2 days after this McCants interview stuff first hit the news and ESPN's bottom line. That means that Roy's handlers and/or superiors at UNC had PLENTY of time to groom him on what to say, how to tow the company line, etc, before he was put on camera.

The interview is just gold. I'm not going to watch it again, because that man's voice and mannerisms and shit-eating expressions just make me cringe, but you really should watch it. That 'ol houn-dawg, he seem'ta be runnin' real low own new tree-yicks


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Zero respect for McCants. Why come out against the school that made you look like a legit NBA Prospect and made you millions of dollars? Nobody was FORCING you to skip class - they weren't preventing you from getting an education, that $30,000 tuition was given to you for free.

Bitch.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Marcus13 said:


> Zero respect for McCants. Why come out against the school that made you look like a legit NBA Prospect and made you millions of dollars? Nobody was FORCING you to skip class - they weren't preventing you from getting an education, that $30,000 tuition was given to you for free.
> 
> Bitch.


Guy just wants a bit more spotlight. It is pretty pathetic.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Marcus13 said:


> Zero respect for McCants. Why come out against the school that made you look like a legit NBA Prospect and made you millions of dollars? Nobody was FORCING you to skip class - they weren't preventing you from getting an education, that $30,000 tuition was given to you for free.
> 
> Bitch.





R-Star said:


> Guy just wants a bit more spotlight. It is pretty pathetic.


Eh, I'll be glad if/when the truth is coming out. If this means that guys who once used the system to their benefit (which is debatable) turn around and expose it later in life, I have no problem with that.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Bogg said:


> Eh, I'll be glad if/when the truth is coming out. If this means that guys who once used the system to their benefit (which is debatable) turn around and expose it later in life, I have no problem with that.


I'm not sure why it even matters.

Does anyone respect an athletes education? I don't. 

If a guy like McCants comes in for an interview and says "Yea, I learned a whole bunch of shit, you know? I took economics. I aint got no problems with math." I'm going to laugh his ass out of the room.

If I've got a guy who stayed all 4 years and comes in actually well spoken and knowledgeable? I'll pay attention.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

R-Star said:


> I'm not sure why it even matters.
> 
> Does anyone respect an athletes education? I don't.
> 
> ...


I don't want to have the NCAA argument all over again, since we already did that, but I'll just say that college sports have a ton of hidden and not-so-hidden problems inherent, and I don't really care how they're brought to light so long as they are. If it's Shane Battier complaining that he did all of his own work while teammates were allowed to skate by, fine. If it's one of the guys that did the skating simply trying to get back in the spotlight, I can live with that too so long as he's telling the truth.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Bogg said:


> I don't want to have the NCAA argument all over again, since we already did that, but I'll just say that college sports have a ton of hidden and not-so-hidden problems inherent, and I don't really care how they're brought to light so long as they are. If it's Shane Battier complaining that he did all of his own work while teammates were allowed to skate by, fine. If it's one of the guys that did the skating simply trying to get back in the spotlight, I can live with that too so long as he's telling the truth.


At the end of the day, who's laughing though? Shane Battier or the guys who skated by?

To me, even if Battier ended up being out of the league after his rookie deal, he has the education to find a nice paying career. 

These guys who get by without doing any work? They better hope they pan out as long term NBA players or they'll be living off food stamps before long. And I don't feel an ounce of guilt for those type of people.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

R-Star said:


> At the end of the day, who's laughing though? Shane Battier or the guys who skated by?
> 
> To me, even if Battier ended up being out of the league after his rookie deal, he has the education to find a nice paying career.
> 
> These guys who get by without doing any work? They better hope they pan out as long term NBA players or they'll be living off food stamps before long. And I don't feel an ounce of guilt for those type of people.


Oh, I agree. I'm not sitting here thinking about how poor Rashad McCants was victimized by the system. I just like when the curtain gets pulled back on the NCAA.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Bogg said:


> Oh, I agree. I'm not sitting here thinking about how poor Rashad McCants was victimized by the system. I just like when the curtain gets pulled back on the NCAA.


I have no issue with that. Although I can see it somehow getting perverted into a "See, we should get paid!" perversion, even though it would make no sense.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Listen to half of the NBA players speak and you can tell that this is a common occurrence. Not sure why this is a shock to anyone.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I don't think it's that simple though. I remember listening to Jalen Rose or somebody else talking about this, sometimes these athletes are pressured to spend most of their time on basketball activities rather than studying for their classes. It's hard to differentiate those who slack off their studies with those who were simply too exhausted from working out for hours a day.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> I don't think it's that simple though. I remember listening to Jalen Rose or somebody else talking about this, sometimes these athletes are pressured to spend most of their time on basketball activities rather than studying for their classes. It's hard to differentiate those who slack off their studies with those who were simply too exhausted from working out for hours a day.


I'm 99.9% sure that these players weren't refused the right to actually do the work. Were they offered the easy way? Yea. And I probably would have taken it too. That being said, I don't feel sorry for these kids. 

Does a guy in Div 1 basketball train harder than the top kid on the swim team in the same school? No. But we should feel sorry for him anyways and make excuses?

I agree with Jalen on a lot of shit, but he acts like these kids are all exploited in college and that its a travesty. Point blank truth is that even though Jalen is an extremely smart guy, he never would have gone to college without basketball. The same could be said for the majority of these kids. 

Derrick Rose is a functioning retard. You try to make him do the work and all its going to show is how much of a sham putting some of these kids into college in the first place actually is.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Damn I don't really understand what the dude is saying here, but it sounds like he wants them to give him 10 million dollars because he went to school there and he was still a dumbass when he left.



> McCants was unclear about whether he would cooperate with official investigations into the academic fraud case involving no-show classes offered by the African and Afro-American Studies department. UNC’s NCAA compliance office, the NCAA and Kenneth Wainstein, a former U.S. Justice Department official hired by UNC, are looking into the classes.
> McCants also suggested he was seeking compensation from UNC for what he says was a subpar educational experience, and seeking money from the NCAA as part of an effort to help young athletes navigate their way through college.
> Packer asked him: “Are you willing to have a conversation with the folks at North Carolina?”
> McCants responded: “The question is what are we talking about, honestly. I mean I have a check being written to me from the University of North Carolina for over $10 million due to the exploitation of me as a player and the lack of education that I received. The NCAA has a check for me for over $300 million to help me facilitate these sports education programs across the country. These are things that’s in the works.”


 
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...io-along-with.html#.U7xMDbFBlpv#storylink=cpy

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...io-along-with.html#.U7xMDbFBlpv#storylink=cpy​


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Diable said:


> Damn I don't really understand what the dude is saying here, but it sounds like he wants them to give him 10 million dollars because he went to school there and he was still a dumbass when he left.


I think he's saying that UNC basketball turned a profit of $10 million, and the NCAA a profit of $300 million, while he was a college basketball player. I have no idea if those are accurate numbers, just what I think he's claiming. Either that or he's hinting that unless someone writes him a check he'll cooperate with the investigation.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Big surprise. McCants is a piece of shit. Who knew?


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/10/22/5259883/termination-for-4-disciplinary.html#.VEgm4cn4r3c

This shit is a lot worse than I'd have thought. They were just flat out cooking the books. These classes were not even being run by a real professor, the whole thing was cooked up by some one in Administration who was grading papers without even reading them apparently, even though she had nothing escept a B.A from UNC


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

It'll be fun to see how the NCAA dances around the issue of having to actually discipline UNC, seeing as how big of a cash cow their sports programs are. Remember when they kept insisting that reducing Penn State's football scholarships and something like a two-year bowl ban was actually a worse punishment than shutting down the program entirely for a year or two?


----------



## Mrs. Thang (Apr 14, 2011)

This scandal is so outrageous it goes beyond penalties for the sports programs. The whole institutions accreditation should be put up for review. They've defrauded every student who has walked through their doors over the last 18 years and every administrator who knew of and every student who took part in one of these sham classes should have their degree revoked.

It goes without saying that the university shouldn't be allowed to participate in college athletics for the foreseeable future, but the NCAA wasn't even able to follow through with a penalty for a university that aided and abetted a child molester so fat chance they do anything meaningful about this.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Mrs. Thang said:


> It goes without saying that the university shouldn't be allowed to participate in college athletics for the foreseeable future, but t*he NCAA wasn't even able to follow through with a penalty for a university that aided and abetted a child molester* so fat chance they do anything meaningful about this.


Well, yea, but Penn State's fan base travels really well and it's tough to pack a neutral site over the Christmas holiday. I mean, have you SEEN what it looks like when you ask Miami of Ohio to sell their half of a stadium in San Diego on December 22nd?


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Good write-up by Grantland on this.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-tar-heels-state-academic-scandal-big-money-no-surprises/



> The latest round has been prompted by the University of North Carolina discovering that for almost two decades thousands of students, many of them athletes in the university’s elite programs, had been shuffled through to their diplomas through the use of “paper classes,” which did not really exist except as a device to keep the athletes eligible to play. Looked at outside of all context, the sophistication of the fraud seems mind-boggling. Athletes were funneled into imaginary seminars where their “academic counselors” — or the coaches themselves — would decide what grade they got. (How would you like to be the guy who got a C in a class that didn’t exist?)
> 
> Context, however, is everything. The report came out at a time in which the basic paradigm of college sports is under attack. The system is overdue for collapse because it is a system based fundamentally on two basic, if incredibly opulent, absurdities: the absurdity of the mad, profit-whoring way we run higher education and the absurdity of believing that it is one of the functions of our institutions of higher education to be part of the multimillion-dollar sports-entertainment industry. The first absurdity leads inevitably to the second one, and the second one leads inevitably to the NCAA, an organization born of absurdity that has managed to create new levels of absurdity every second it has been in existence. It is, honestly, laughable.
> 
> ...


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/former-unc-football-player-files-lawsuit-190235241--ncaaf.html

Probably going to be a lot of lawsuits like this one. I'm not sure you really want to try to convince a jury that someone forced you to cheat on your grades though.


----------

