# Is Greg Oden REALLY gonna be that good?



## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

Simple question. Some of the arguments in the Lakers vs. Blazers thread made me think to make this.


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## joser (Nov 29, 2005)

Yes.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

He'll be decent / good, but not the next David Robinson that everyone wants to call him.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I love these threads. Every single Blazer fan will vote yes, and every single other team will vote no. Actually there will be the exception that will vote with their mind instead of their heart

Greg Oden has all of the tools to be dominant. It's not like no one has ever seen the kid play, and he has been touted as a once in a decade center talent. 

If you put all of your bias' aside and just accept what every single "expert" says about him you'd have to say he is going to be "that" good. 

His numbers might not match those of other dominant rookie big men though because Oden is going to a team that already has some very good players. 

If you look at his numbers from college though they are at or better than a lot of so called dominant centers coming into the league when they were freshmen. 

Not that it is in anyway the tell all, but in the championship game against Florida, Greg Oden destroyed both Noah and Horford. Noah is a nice player in the NBA, and Horford appears to be a good player. 

In pre training camp workouts LaMarcus Aldridge said he was the best defender he had ever seen

Other that have played against him have said he is the strongest person in the NBA already. (that was last year before he gained 30 lbs of muscle)


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Yeah he'll be good but not the 'once every 10 or 20 years' talent some people are making him out to be.

I'm thinking he's an all-star lock, but not near as good as some are saying. He hasn't even stepped on an NBA court yet and a lot of people are/were already saying he'll be better than Dwight Howard, using arguments like _"he was the highest touted prospect since Lebron James!"_ and _"he's the only junior to win the national player of the year other than lebron!"_.

But I do think he'll be good. Just never a Top 10 player in the league like some believe. Though I guess he could be considered a Top 10 at some point in his career because of a winning team record and "the things he does that don't show up on the stat sheet", but basically I don't think he's some out of the league talent (though his size gives him _potential_ to be).


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

NewAgeBaller said:


> Yeah he'll be good but not the 'once every 10 or 20 years' talent some people are making him out to be.
> 
> I'm thinking he's an all-star lock, but not near as good as some are saying. He hasn't even stepped on an NBA court yet and a lot of people are/were already saying he'll be better than Dwight Howard, using arguments like _"he was the highest touted prospect since Lebron James!"_ and _"he's the only junior to win the national player of the year other than lebron!"_.
> 
> But I do think he'll be good. Just never a Top 10 player in the league like some believe. Though I guess he could be considered a Top 10 at some point in his career because of a winning team record and "the things he does that don't show up on the stat sheet", but basically I don't think he's some out of the league talent (though his size gives him _potential_ to be).


but why? is he not going to be dominant defensively, and if not, why? will he not be strong on the boards? what did you see that leads you to believe he won't be strong on the blocks offensively? 

he may not be better than howard, but he's been a better prospect than howard both offensively and defensively. he's not the athlete howard is, but he's got skills. we'll see how that turns out.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

kflo said:


> but why? is he not going to be dominant defensively, and if not, why? will he not be strong on the boards? what did you see that leads you to believe he won't be strong on the blocks offensively?
> 
> he may not be better than howard, but he's been a better prospect than howard both offensively and defensively. he's not the athlete howard is, but he's got skills. we'll see how that turns out.


I have no doubt he'll be strong on the block. But he's not as quick or athletic as Howard (imo anyway). And despite Howard's post game being somewhat limited, Oden's is probably significantly less diverse and refined, atleast at his point in his career. People like to label Dwight a "catch and dunk" player, but I'm sure he's far more effective than Oden on offence (though Oden might develop that area of his game quickly, but who knows).

I'm sure he'll be dominant defensively. A good rebounder too, but not as good as Howard imo (unless I'm overrating Howard's rebounding, but with his size, reach and athleticism, he's an absolute beast in that regard).

I'm not saying Oden will be worse than Howard, but its pretty unreasonable to say, at this point, that he WILL be better. Some guys on the Blazer board (I think) were even guaranteeing it, and that was when Howard was dominating the league too.

But if Oden could develop into a Howard-like player, that'd be great for the league and I'd love to see them go at it. Personally I think Dwight will be the more dominant player, but Oden might be just as good and valuable to a team (strange example, but take Shaq and Duncan - Shaq is the more dominant player but they are equally valuable and significant to their teams).


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> he's not the athlete howard is, but he's got skills



He's pretty comparible actually. Bigger and stronger, and almost as quick. Oden can jump higher from a stand still. He also has a better reach than Howard does (and should because he's taller). I'm not sure how you figure in height and weight to agility, but I would guess that since the numbers are so close that Oden is actually a better athlete 

Pre draft measurments

Howard 6'9"
Oden 6'11"

Howard 240lbs
Oden 257lbs

Howard 30.5 No step vert
Oden 32

Howard 35.5 Max Vert
Oden 34

Howard 11.21 lane agility
Oden 11.67

Howard 3.14 3/4 court sprint 
Oden 3.27


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## aussiestatman (Dec 12, 2006)

i believe at the end of a 12-15 year pro career he will be rated top 20 all-time with only shaq, duncan, garnett, and lebron among current players


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

NewAgeBaller said:


> I have no doubt he'll be strong on the block. But he's not as quick or athletic as Howard (imo anyway). And despite Howard's post game being somewhat limited, Oden's is probably significantly less diverse and refined, atleast at his point in his career. People like to label Dwight a "catch and dunk" player, but I'm sure he's far more effective than Oden on offence (though Oden might develop that area of his game quickly, but who knows).
> 
> I'm sure he'll be dominant defensively. A good rebounder too, but not as good as Howard imo (unless I'm overrating Howard's rebounding, but with his size, reach and athleticism, he's an absolute beast in that regard).
> 
> ...



i saw more offensively from oden from a skillset/touch standpoint in his one year at osu than i've seen from howard. just my opinion.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

how about a vote for "I don't know, but he has a chance to be really good" or "I like turtles"?


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

I love how we are automatically supposed to love this Greg Oden and think he's one of the best all-time, even though he hasn't even stepped on the damn court


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

kflo said:


> i saw more offensively from oden from a skillset/touch standpoint in his one year at osu than i've seen from howard. just my opinion.


Are you saying Oden showed promise to be more offensively talented that Howard, or that he showed he already is..? If its the second one, you're definately wrong. Howard would rip up the NCAA..

* Then again you said from a skillset/touch standpoint, which I guess doesn't count mercilessly dunking on the opposing frontline.. I'll just disagree with you here, but Howard's post game is pretty underrated. Nothing amazing, but he's refined his short jump hooks and turn-arounds a lot, and even has somewhat of a jumper. I guarantee Oden will have to work on his offence a fair bit (and he probably will) to be even on Howard's level offensively in the NBA.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

I think he will be really good.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Oden just doesn't look very intense...He reminds me of Robert Parrish.


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## dwade3 (Sep 12, 2005)

providing his knee holds up, in 2 years Oden will be offensively technically better than Howard but will he score more?(defensively will be quite even)....the footwork he showed in college, and not to forget the left hand he played with, was enough to tell the difference between a lob-catch-dunk player and a player creating his own shot...


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

liekomgj4ck said:


> I love how we are automatically supposed to love this Greg Oden and think he's one of the best all-time, even though he hasn't even stepped on the damn court


You don't have to like him if you don't want to. Everyone has their own opinions. I don't think Rose is going to turn into the player the Bulls want him to be. You don't think Oden will turn into the player the Blazers want him to be. That's fine.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I don't think it's going to be apparent for some time.I don't expect him to be fully healthy this year.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Two words for you - Kwame Brown


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Two words for you - Kwame Brown


WOW ok. Greg Oden is the next Kwame Brown. Hey, at least Kwame has shown the ability to stay on the court.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Pssh... Kwame Brown > Greg Oden. Oden hasn't even played 1 minute in the NBA yet!!!!!!!!


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

I hate to say it but I'd agree. Oden needs to play a game first. 

Heck at this point it's Scott Pollard > Greg Oden

But I'll reserve judgment till this season, unless of course he gets injured again.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

liekomgj4ck said:


> I hate to say it but I'd agree. Oden needs to play a game first.
> 
> Heck at this point it's Scott Pollard > Greg Oden
> 
> But I'll reserve judgment till this season, unless of course he gets injured again.



So Steve Blake > Derick Rose


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

mediocre man said:


> So Steve Blake > Derick Rose


At this point yes


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

kflo said:


> he may not be better than howard, but he's been a better prospect than howard both offensively and defensively. he's not the athlete howard is, but he's got skills. we'll see how that turns out.


I'm not sure if this is true. Oden, before the injury, could almost compete with Mike Conley in those agility drills, he was a freak athlete and he could still be although he is a lot bigger than before. If he gets his full explosiveness back I think he will be comparable to Howard.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> So Steve Blake > Derick Rose


Smush Parker > Derrick Rose, man. Don't you know? That UNLESS you have played in the NBA, you just suck. Simple as that.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

Me > the entire 08 rookie class


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

thaKEAF said:


> Me > the entire 08 rookie class


me>you, therefore me=kwame brown

:wink:


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Me > the entire 08 rookie class


I wouldn't say that, since you haven't played in the NBA either. But i think you are right on par with them, imo.

But once Greg Oden gets through that first game, then he automatically goes to top 5 Center status. But until then, he is worse than Joel Pryzbilla.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Luke Walton > Michael Beasley


Hey this is fun


You could also say that 

Brian Scalabrini > Kevin Durrant Because he's done it longer right? I mean maybe Durrant was a flash in the pan?


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

MrJayremmie said:


> I wouldn't say that, since you haven't played in the NBA either. But i think you are right on par with them, imo.
> 
> But once Greg Oden gets through that first game, then he automatically goes to top 5 Center status. But until then, he is worse than Joel Pryzbilla.


Actually it would be 

You = The entire 08' rookie class


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

IMO this logic is kind of flawed.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> He's pretty comparible actually. Bigger and stronger, and almost as quick. Oden can jump higher from a stand still. He also has a better reach than Howard does (and should because he's taller). I'm not sure how you figure in height and weight to agility, but I would guess that since the numbers are so close that Oden is actually a better athlete
> 
> Pre draft measurments
> 
> ...


I try not to put too much into draft workouts. They're the same things that said Troy Bell and Luke Jackson were great athletes, which they assuredly are not. That said, yes, Oden is a hell of an athlete for his size, but is he a better athlete than Howard overall? Probably not. Howard is faster down the floor and quicker, according to the "tests" and, despite being two inches shorter (although I think Howard has grown some since then), has only a half an inch shorter reach and a bigger wingspan than Oden.

Additionally, Howard is up to 280 pounds now, so Oden may be "stronger", but it's not by much at all.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

MrJayremmie said:


> IMO this logic is kind of flawed.


How so? 

If we are going to talk about the quality of NBA players, they need to be evaluated by NBA performance yes? 

I think It's pretty obvious here.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

I don't think so. I don't think somebody has to play in the NBA to be a good player.

When LeBron came out of high school, i thought he was going to be one of the best NBA players before he played in the NBA. I thought Carmelo was going to be really good comin' out of Syracuse. I thought Durant was going to be a good scorer, and i think Beasley and Oden are going to be really good.

Honestly, i don't need them to get 1 NBA game out of the way to know that.

I don't think Smush Parker is better than Derrick Rose, i don't think that Earl Barron is better than Michael Beasley, and i don't think Jaron Collins is better than Greg Oden.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

MrJayremmie said:


> I don't think so. I don't think somebody has to play in the NBA to be a good player.
> 
> When LeBron came out of high school, i thought he was going to be one of the best NBA players before he played in the NBA. I thought Carmelo was going to be really good comin' out of Syracuse. I thought Durant was going to be a good scorer, and i think Beasley and Oden are going to be really good.
> 
> Honestly, i don't need them to get 1 NBA game out of the way to know that.


ok then, you know all :worthy:


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

YoYoYoWasup said:


> I try not to put too much into draft workouts. They're the same things that said Troy Bell and Luke Jackson were great athletes, which they assuredly are not. That said, yes, Oden is a hell of an athlete for his size, but is he a better athlete than Howard overall? Probably not. Howard is faster down the floor and quicker, according to the "tests" and, despite being two inches shorter (although I think Howard has grown some since then), has only a half an inch shorter reach and a bigger wingspan than Oden.
> 
> Additionally, Howard is up to 280 pounds now, so Oden may be "stronger", but it's not by much at all.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to turn this into an Oden is better than Howard deal. If Oden turns into the player Howard is every Blazer fan will be thrilled. I expect Oden to Average somewhere around what Howard did in his rookie campaign of 12/10


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> ok then, you know all


its not like that at all...

I understand the fact that they need to prove themselves verse higher level of competition in the NBA, but i think a lot of people here go overboard when they say like... "Well for now, so and so > Greg Oden since Oden hasn't played 1 minute in the NBA". And things like that.

But whatever, i understand both points of view.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

He's going to be very very good, for a team that is loaded with talent. In many ways he's walking into a situation similar to Duncan walked into. In terms of a class franchise, with a lot of good pieces, that probably would have been really good without him. But he puts them on another level.

Health is the only thing you worry about with him right now. At Ohio State though, he was a beast. Playing with his off-hand mind you.

I think we're looking at one of those players who will eventually become one of the all-time greats. But it does take big men a little longer to acclimate than little guys. So we'll see. But he should be pretty good this year if he can stay on the court.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Like I said, I believe Oden will be good, maybe even great. Especially since he's coming to a great team and he will be facing mostly mediocre Centers or even PF's at Center.

But him being an elite Center is far from a sure thing.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

liekomgj4ck said:


> Like I said, I believe Oden will be good, maybe even great. Especially since he's coming to a great team and he will be facing mostly mediocre Centers or even PF's at Center.
> 
> But him being an elite Center is far from a sure thing.



Do you think it's safe to say he has a better chance of being an elite center than a bust?


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

kflo said:


> i saw more offensively from oden from a skillset/touch standpoint in his one year at osu than i've seen from howard. just my opinion.


He has that little turnaround jumphook thats about the only difference. Other than that the only way he scored was off of a dunk/layup. He still needs to refine his offensive moves. But I will agree he did show more touch/skill than Howard. It was against college kids but keep in mind he wasn't even healthy (or 100%). 


His problem is that he is very injury prone. He broke his wrist and then had surgery on his knee. The last full season in which he was healthy throughout was his senior year of High School. His durability is a big question especially towards the end of the season. That being said if he can stay injury free he is going to be incredible. He will be one of the best shot blockers in the league from day one. He is an athletic 7 footer and he should also be able to rebound the ball well. Defensively will be where his impact is felt the most. Offensively he will score mostly on dunks and layups but if he can refine that turnaround jumphook he will be more effective scoring the ball. I would expect stats of 15-18 PPG, 10 RPG, and 3 BPG. His stats won't be indicative of the impact he has on the Blazers as it will be enormous.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

He also apparently added a pretty nice mid-range jumper to his arsenal over the season (since he couldn't really run and stuff he really practiced on his shooting) and is an even better free throw shooter now (was making around 90% in practice).

His offensive game is underrated but that is ok. I agree that he will get most his points off of off. rebounds and alley oops or hand off passes from a penetrating guard for a dunk. 

I think he will have somethin' like 12.5 ppg and 8.5 rpg in his rookie year.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Things like...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jd9jHrbuVKM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jd9jHrbuVKM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

and

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZbgepARu7-c&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZbgepARu7-c&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

and this one...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y8DQOIU73JI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y8DQOIU73JI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Those show him verse some decent NBA competition.

edit - in those vids he didn't have the muscles he has now, wasn't in the shape he is in now, didn't have the jump shot he has now or the refined offensive game he's got now (that the coaches were raving about after seeing Oden recently and seeing his hook shots, jump shots, footwork, and how big he is in, yet how slick and fast and athletic he is... in that practice he shot 70% lefty from the line and 90% right handed).


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

MrJayremmie said:


> He also apparently added a pretty nice mid-range jumper to his arsenal over the season (since he couldn't really run and stuff he really practiced on his shooting) and is an even better free throw shooter now (was making around 90% in practice).
> 
> His offensive game is underrated but that is ok. I agree that he will get most his points off of off. rebounds and alley oops or hand off passes from a penetrating guard for a dunk.
> 
> I think he will have somethin' like 12.5 ppg and 8.5 rpg in his rookie year.



His offensive game is underrated I would agree to an extent. The touch he shows around the basket is extraordinary especially for his size. He has a nice turnaround hook shot. If he hits the mid-range jumper in games he could be special offensively.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

He will be the best big in the NBA in 3 years.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Dan said:


> how about a vote for "I don't know, but he has a chance to be really good" or "I like turtles"?


I would also like to vote for those choices. 

Turtles are awesome


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

liekomgj4ck said:


> I love how we are automatically supposed to love this Greg Oden and think he's one of the best all-time, even though he hasn't even stepped on the damn court


It's not like he's some foreigner that nobody has seen play yet.

People have been following Greg Oden since he was a young kid in high school (Like LeBron, Mayo, etc). Then we got to see him play in college, and there's no question he showed his talents there as well. We haven't seen him play an NBA game yet, sure. But it's not like we're just assuming because he's tall he's going to be good. A lot of people are very familiar with his game.

I'm sure my opinion will be voided because I of my name, but here's what I believe about Greg Oden.

He's already one of the best defensive post players in the NBA, without even stepping on the court. Certainly not THE best, but he's one of the best no doubt. He shows a lot of promise offensively as well. In college he hurt his hand and was able to shoot a respectable free throw percentage with his non-dominant hand. He also did a lot of scoring that year with said hand, so he's already shown the ability to score at least semi-effectively with both hands, a very useful tool. There's been articles on the kid working out and training hard (ESPN the mag, this months I think? Or last months, I forget), and he plays tough (played through most of his college year hurt). He shows a lot of heart, and that's something not all really talented players have. Plus, to top everything off, he has a very marketable personality. That doesn't have too much to do with his game, but it could be the icing on the cake that makes him "one of the best" to play the game.

All in all, he has all the tools to be a fantastic player. Great defense, good timing, adaptivity and efficiency offensively, great measurables and size, good free throw shooter, good work ethic, lots of heart, and a good personality.

I don't have a problem with people not believing in his as much as I do, but to bash him just doesn't make sense to me. I know the OP pointed this out already, but I think it's a valid piece in my argument. He is one of the highest touted prospects to come into the NBA since LeBron. Out of everything we've seen from Greg Oden, I don't see a reason to believe he won't live up to that.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

HOLY **** that dunk in the second video

ok i love greg oden now


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Oden is *probably* going to be one of the best bigs. But I think what I am more skeptical about is his team as a possible dynasty as some have said. Their roster is so young. Which is good if they view their youngsters as assets that can be moved to fill out their depth chart.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

liekomgj4ck said:


> I love how we are automatically supposed to love this Greg Oden and think he's one of the best all-time, even though he hasn't even stepped on the damn court


The same could be said for your boy Darrek Rose.eace:


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

BlazerFan22 said:


> The same could be said for your boy Darrek Rose.eace:


It's Derrick by the way. And yes, if you read one of my above posts I agree with this exact statement.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Oden needs to quicken his release to really be one of the best...He lets the ball hang there a bit.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

He'll at least make some all-star games. The funny thing is, he doesn't need to be amazing for the Blazers to be successful. Obviously, that'd be nice, but he doesn't need to go for 20/10 every game for them to get the wins.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

LameR said:


> He'll at least make some all-star games. The funny thing is, he doesn't need to be amazing for the Blazers to be successful. Obviously, that'd be nice, but he doesn't need to go for 20/10 every game for them to get the wins.



I disagree. Oden seperates the Blazers from all the rest of the nice young teams growing in the West( Seattle, Golden State, Memphis, Minnesota).


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

no question oden will be great. he is the best prospect to enter the league since lebron.

by the end of this season he will be the third best center in the league behind yao and dwight(yes behind duncan and amare as well if you consider them to be centers). and he'll only go up from there.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

what does "that good" mean? if it means a great player who makes the hof, then i think yes.

if it means a player in the same league as wilt, shaq, kareem, hakeem then no.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> I disagree. Oden seperates the Blazers from all the rest of the nice young teams growing in the West( Seattle, Golden State, Memphis, Minnesota).


Exactly. Before the draft last year the Blazers were a nice young team, but nothing special. Once they got Oden they went from likely playoff team for the next ten years to title contenders for the next decade and they have only gotten better since. Take away Oden from that team and they look pretty ordinary.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Even without Oden this year the blazers would be a 43, 44 win team, imo. That is still pretty good.

But i definitely agree with the fact that Oden is the difference between a playoff team and a title contender. That was a good point.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

I think just with Roy and LMA, they separate them from those other young teams as well. That's why they're not the Bulls of couple yr's ago. Those two can be really good as well.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Tom said:


> Oden just doesn't look very intense...He reminds me of Robert Parrish.


I was going to say more of an Artis Gilmore-type persona on the floor. I'm going to say he will have an A-Train-type career if he pans out.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

dwade3 said:


> providing his knee holds up, in 2 years Oden will be offensively technically better than Howard but will he score more?(defensively will be quite even)....the footwork he showed in college, and not to forget the left hand he played with, was enough to tell the difference between a lob-catch-dunk player and a player creating his own shot...


Thank you! Someone who has actually watched Oden play and accurately observed his offensive skills. People on this board, and in general, are seriously underrating Oden's offensive game. His offensive game is MUCH more developed and refined that Dwight Howard's when he came into the league, and much more developed than Shag's when he came into the league. Both those guys had one goto move - the dunk. Oden has that and much more.

Oden has dominated at every level he's played. He dominated in high school, he dominated the AAU circuit and he damonated in college. He has also had some very good coaching along the way and has developed some excellent skills to go with his physically dominating presence.

Most people only look at his college stats and aren't that impressed. To them I say - WATCH THE KID PLAY. He missed the start of his freshman season dus to an injury and subsequent surgery on the wrist of his shooting hand. He started the season late, and played pretty much one handed - with his off hand - for the rest of the season. He played on a team with a guard dominated offense, and still averaged over 15 PPG on less than 10 FGA/G.

That wrist injury was a blessing in disguise (assuming no long term ill effects). It forced him to work on using his left hand. A big man who can score with either hand around the basket is twice as hard to guard. Oden has a great left-handed drop-step move and can shoot the jump hook with either hand.

He will get a ton of dunks (probably battle Dwight Howard for the league lead in dunks), but he also has excellent fundamental low post footwork that will make him very hard to guard. He WILL command double teams in the low post and will draw a lot of fouls - he's also a better than average FT shooter. So, that will help his scoring average.

In that national title game, he easily outplayed Joakim Noah and Al Horford, who were both older and more experienced, and were lottery picks. Including Chris Richard, Florida had three big men in the game who played in the NBA last year. They constantly double teamed Oden, and he still destroyed them. If the Ohio State guards could have hit an open shot - or passed into Oden more - they would have won that game. Five players from that Florida team and three from Ohio Sate will be playing in the NBA this year - and Greg Oden was head-and-shoulders THE best player on the court in that game (and his right wrist still wasn't 100%).

I'm sure I'll be called a Blazer homer for predicting this, but I think Greg Oden will average betyween 17 and 19 PG as a rookie and by the time the Blazers are contending for a championship he will be the leading score on the team. Yes, he is that good.

BNM


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Emeka Okafor V2


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Yes. There's a far dropoff from good and decent, so I'll say yes. He's already probably one of the best defenders in the league, it just depends on his offense and how that develops. Hopefully he pulled an Amare and worked on a jumper or something.

Offensively he has good footwork, is athletic enough, is strong so he'll get positioning, doesn't make stupid plays, has good size...I see no reason why he can't be at least a 20-23 ppg scorer in his prime. I think he'll give you what Duncan gave you in his non-MVP years statistically.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I've watched him in high school and college, and I thought he reminded me of David Robinson before seeing the comparisons pop up on discussion forums. His body is very much the same sort as Robinson's...long, sculpted and freakishly athletic. Offensively, he has that same mix of finesse, footwork and power. His defense is predicated on intelligence and being a superior athlete. In virtually every respect, I think the David Robinson comparisons are appropriate.

In his rookie year, I think he'll average along the lines of 15 PPG / 8-10 RPG and his defense will be clearly good, though his team defense will have lapses from inexperience. I think his prime will be 25 PPG / 12 RPG and Defensive Player of the Year candidate each season.

It's almost impossible to overstate how good he looked in high school and college. He looked like a ringer. He was just so clearly on a different level from everyone else. His footwork was tremendous and his touch was tremendous...he isn't simply a raw athlete on offense. He's a fantastic athlete with honed skills.


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## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

He'll be decent his rookie season, but people will call him a bust because he won't start averaging 15/10/3. Then they'll jump on his bandwagon when he's dominating the paint and winning championships.


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## jc4 (May 28, 2008)

he will be a hall of famer mark my words


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## maxiep (May 7, 2003)

I look at it from a bit of a different perspective. I look at the players to which Greg Oden has been compared--Russell, Wilt, Ewing, Robinson and Shaq. How many players who have been thought of on that level ever been even average? The only one I can think of is Sampson, and he was one hell of a center until his knees gave out.

The guy can play with both hands because of his broken wrist, and his microfracture procedure was to ensure that his career will last 15+ years, not just a decade. If he were playing 10 years ago, they would have cut out the affected area of cartilage and Oden wouldn't have missed a game of his rookie year.

As for his demeanor, does anyone who has seen him play really believe he's laid back on the court? Look at his teams' winning percentage in HS, AAU and at Ohio State. That's not just talent. Is Tim Duncan fiery? Was Kareem? Nope. They just won.

If you want to know how competitive he is, look at what he's accomplished when he hasn't been 100%. He didn't just write off his freshman year; he not only played with his off hand, but played well. He now shoots an equal FT percentage with either hand. When unable to play his rookie year, he bulked up from 257 to 300+ with the same fat %. He finally had to be told to tone it down by the team. His pilates instructor says he's one of the best clients she's ever had in terms of his dedication. He leaves the people that run The Hill with him in the dust. When Nate McMillan went to play a little one on one with him in Hawaii, Oden hit him so hard, he hurt Nate's back. He may be happy-go-lucky off the court, but on it, he's all business.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

*I know Dwight Howard is going to dunk the ball through his skull the first head to head matchup....

But all seriousness, this guy is going to be a force.

Like I say all the time, it's going to be fun watching the new schoolers, Horford, Oden, Howard, Bynum, Amare, Yao, Okafor go at it.*


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## bayarea_blazer (Jan 14, 2003)

It's so difficult to determine how good Oden will be. There are so many unknown factors such as injury, team dynamics, learning curve, etc. However, us folks that live in Portland have had a great deal more exposure and information on Oden such as firsthand commentary from Blazers personnel and local media. Most people outside of Portland do not know the incredible progression after his surgery and the amazing shape he is in right now. From the video footage I've seen and local reports, it is going to be scary! He has developed a multitude of offense including left & right jump hook and improved free throw shooting. I wouldn't be surprised if he shatters some backboards this coming season. He might be the strongest man in the NBA (judging by player comments in scrimmages with him). Seeing him move and dunk right now, you want to hide your kids and run in fear. 

But all this means nothing until he steps onto the court, is healthy, and adapts to the NBA game. We'll see in 3 years but the tools are there along with his physical makeup.


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## ray_allen_20 (Dec 26, 2007)

mediocre man said:


> He's pretty comparible actually. Bigger and stronger, and almost as quick. Oden can jump higher from a stand still. He also has a better reach than Howard does (and should because he's taller). I'm not sure how you figure in height and weight to agility, but I would guess that since the numbers are so close that Oden is actually a better athlete
> 
> Pre draft measurments
> 
> ...


I don't believe for a SECOND that Oden can jump higher than Dwight. I also don't believe that Dwight is 6'9


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Najee said:


> I was going to say more of an Artis Gilmore-type persona on the floor. I'm going to say he will have an A-Train-type career if he pans out.


Not a bad comparison, imho.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

btw, for the Blazer fans in the audience..I just had a "holy ****! we got Oden!" moment. Anyone else?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

maxiep said:


> He leaves the people that run The Hill with him in the dust. When Nate McMillan went to play a little one on one with him in Hawaii, Oden hit him so hard, he hurt Nate's back. He may be happy-go-lucky off the court, but on it, he's all business.


You might point out that "The Hill" was an incredibly steep street in the metro area.


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

ray_allen_20 said:


> I don't believe for a SECOND that Oden can jump higher than Dwight. I also don't believe that Dwight is 6'9


Well if YOU don't believe it, then the measurements MUST be wrong.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Prolific Scorer said:


> *Like I say all the time, it's going to be fun watching the new schoolers, Horford, Oden, Howard, Bynum, Amare, Yao, <strike>Okafor</strike> go at it.*


..


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

You know pre-draft measurements arn't always definitive evidence to prove someone is more physically gifted than other, especially when one of the players has been in the league over 3 seasons and the other is just returning after missing a season due to micro-fracture surgery.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Wow are you really 82 Dan?


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## dwade3 (Sep 12, 2005)

liekomgj4ck said:


> Wow are you really 82 Dan?


dude, lookin at ur sig makes me realise that chicago is gonna get POUNDED on the boards, u better hope they run n gun like theres no tomorow.....


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

liekomgj4ck said:


> Wow are you really 82 Dan?


Yep, I was born in 1926, on a small farm in Roane County, Tennessee. Served during the tail end of WW2. I got married after the war to my late wife Marianna, and had 2 kids. I lived most of my adult life in Spokane, but now reside in Portland at a retirement home, so I can be near one of my sons. I've been estranged from one son though, although I'd rather not get into what caused our estrangement.

I worked for "Ma Bell", from after the war till the mid 80's. It was a good life but now I'm losing my eye-sight, so I have a hard time seeing the monitor when I'm online.

I can't wait to be back with my wife in heaven though.

Thanks for asking.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

liekomgj4ck said:


> I love how we are automatically supposed to love this Greg Oden and think he's one of the best all-time, even though he hasn't even stepped on the damn court


What's your prediction for Derrick Rose?


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

ray_allen_20 said:


> I don't believe for a SECOND that Oden can jump higher than Dwight. I also don't believe that Dwight is 6'9


Dwight was measured 6'9" without shoes when he was drafted. 

Here are two quotes form Howard on his site. Both from the Orlando Sentinel in 2006.



> Honey, They Shrunk The Kid:
> In a surprising admission, Dwight Howard says he's "only" 6 feet 10 -- and that's in basketball shoes. The Magic list him at 6-11. I brought it up because Garnett looked at least 11/2 inches taller than Howard last week. "Yeah, he is. I'm 6-10 in shoes. Hedo [Turkoglu] is taller than me. It really doesn't matter. I guess it's because I'm big this way that people think I'm taller," Howard said, tracing a finger across his broad chest and shoulders.





> i'm six foot nine and a half


Either way his 7'4.5" wingspan and 9'3.5" standing reach are slightly longer than Oden's which is why Howard can play like a legit 7 footer. Not to mention his freakish 39 inch vertical and 270 pound frame.

That's why you don't think of Dwight as 6'9" or 6'9.5" because his wingspan, strength and athleticism make him play and appear much taller.

However if you look at Dwight stand next to another big men then you can tell he's under 6'10". 

At the 2007 all-star game Dwight posed for a picture with Chris Bosh who measured 6'10 1/4" in 2003 and now claims to be 6'11" and Dwight was a good inch shorter despite Chris slouching.

Also if you look up the video of Shaq and Dwight's dance-off at the 2007 all-star game you'll see Shaq who is a legit 7'1" is also about 4 inches taller than Dwight.


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

As for Oden well here's what I think of his game.

If he has the same athleticism he had before the knee surgery and weight gain then he will be unstoppable if he stays healthy.

*Offense:* Oden can use either hand very well, he has strong footwork, great athleticism, excellent strength and he's tough inside.

*Defense:* Oden is the best defensive big man prospect since atleast Tim Duncan. He does something that is a lost art and that's keep the ball in play when he blocks shots. That is an intangible that is so valuable. He also can stay on his feet for fakes and even recover to block a shot when he does go for a fake. His length, strength and athleticism makes him very difficult to score against and he is an amazing help defender. His shot blocking will not only protect the basket but also start fastbreaks on the other end.

While I see Oden similar to David Robinson as far as defense, height and athleticism they have a lot of differences as far as offense. Robinson was an excellent passer and he had a very good jumper as well as the fact that he liked to face the basket and was more comfortable in the high post. However Robinson never had great footwork and wasn't near as heavy as Oden until atleast the Duncan era. Robinson was measured at 7'0", 226 pounds at the 1988 Olympics while Oden now is going to enter the league at about 6'11" and 280 pounds. 

If Oden does truly has developed a good jumper and he stays healthy then he'll be a bigger, stronger, better version of David Robinson or Patrick Ewing, that's how good he can be.

Even if he doesn't have a jumper then he can still be the cornerstone and a contender in the West. He is going into the perfect situation. He won't be asked to do too much in Portland because they have a ton of talent, all of the talent is young and should be around for a while, Brandon Roy is a true leader and Lamarcus Aldridge should complement Oden's style very well. He also will likely get to play in the playoffs and have a chance to do some damage in the postseason during his rookie season.

Roy is a good playmaker who should make Oden better and Aldridge can play in the high post but also in the low post when Oden is on the bench. Despite being the number 1 pick he won't be looked at as the franchise savior. The Blazers have so much talent it's scary. I expect anywhere from 12-15 ppg from Greg is rookie season, 9-11 rebounds and about 2 blocks on somewhere around 60% shooting.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

I love threads that devolve into arguing how tall players are. They are my favoritest


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## HurraKane212 (Aug 2, 2007)

Yes, Oden will be dominant


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Having seen this guy practice and scrimmage a couple weeks ago I have no fears whatsoever about his health and no doubts about his ability to dominate on both ends of the floor. I think many will be very surprised with his offensive game. I expect him to struggle the first few months of the season with foul trouble and defense as he adjusts to the NBA game but by the end of next season he should be a very imposing defensive presence.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Robinson was measured at 7'0", 226 pounds at the 1988 Olympics while Oden now is going to enter the league at about 6'11" and 280 pounds.


yep, right on. Those were bare-foot measurements though, as Oden is almost 7'1 with shoes. He is insanely huge.


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

Oden was just on ESPN news. He mentioned wanting to lose a little weight so he could stay healthy. He got up to 280 pounds last year after weighing 257 at the 2007 pre-draft camp.

It was also good to hear him recognize Tim Duncan as the best center in the league and say he wanted to pattern his game after Duncan. I was expecting him to say Dwight Howard but that means Oden is looking at fundamentals instead of flash. That's key for a big man.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

ShaqAttack3234 said:


> Oden was just on ESPN news. He mentioned wanting to lose a little weight so he could stay healthy. He got up to 280 pounds last year after weighing 257 at the 2007 pre-draft camp.
> 
> It was also good to hear him recognize Tim Duncan as the best center in the league and say he wanted to pattern his game after Duncan. I was expecting him to say Dwight Howard but that means Oden is looking at fundamentals instead of flash. That's key for a big man.


Just to be clear, Oden's weight gain was pure muscle from work in the weight room. He had no gain in body fat. The Blazers told him to back off on the weight training because they want him quicker and they want less weight on his knee.

Oden's a beast. By the end of next season, you're going to want to change your board name to OdenAttack3234.


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## OdenRoyLMA2 (May 23, 2008)

^^Actually if I remember correctly, his body fat did indeed go up during the early stages of his rehab. Something like 13-14% body fat there for a while. Not sure what he's currently at, but he did certainly beef up.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Dan said:


> Yep, I was born in 1926, on a small farm in Roane County, Tennessee. Served during the tail end of WW2. I got married after the war to my late wife Marianna, and had 2 kids. I lived most of my adult life in Spokane, but now reside in Portland at a retirement home, so I can be near one of my sons. I've been estranged from one son though, although I'd rather not get into what caused our estrangement.
> 
> I worked for "Ma Bell", from after the war till the mid 80's. It was a good life but now I'm losing my eye-sight, so I have a hard time seeing the monitor when I'm online.
> 
> ...



:lol::lol::lol: You lying old fart!


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

OdenRoyLMA2 said:


> ^^Actually if I remember correctly, his body fat did indeed go up during the early stages of his rehab. Something like 13-14% body fat there for a while. Not sure what he's currently at, but he did certainly beef up.


Nope. From NBA.com:



> Update: Oden has gained 30 pounds of muscle this season bringing him near 280 pounds, The Oregonian reports.
> Analysis: He has maintained his 7.8 percent body fat so all that additional weight is all upper-body muscle. He hasn't been able to do any lower body weight training because of his knee surgery. He should be a force to be reckoned with next season.


http://www.nba.com/fantasy/fantasy_playernews.jsp?date=11/18/07&type=news

No Shaq-pudge on Oden.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

DaRizzle said:


> :lol::lol::lol: You lying old fart!


Yeah, we have a lot of trouble on the Blazer board with Dan really stretching the truth envelope.

BTW, 82 is his IQ, not his age.


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

e_blazer1 said:


> Just to be clear, Oden's weight gain was pure muscle from work in the weight room. He had no gain in body fat. The Blazers told him to back off on the weight training because they want him quicker and they want less weight on his knee.
> 
> Oden's a beast. By the end of next season, you're going to want to change your board name to OdenAttack3234.


I know the weight was all gained in muscle but the reason I'm concerned is the reason you mentioned. It was all gained in the upperbody so that could make hurt his knee and make him less quick.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

ShaqAttack3234 said:


> Dwight was measured 6'9" without shoes when he was drafted.
> 
> Here are two quotes form Howard on his site. Both from the Orlando Sentinel in 2006.
> 
> ...



I think Dwight has grown since he entered the league. Regardless, he goes over 6'10 in shoes. It doesn't make any sense to talk about how Dwight is 6'9 and then mention another player's height with shoes on. Almost all NBA heights are w/shoes , but there is flexibility. If a player requests to be listed at a certain height it's usually not a problem.


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

bballlife said:


> I think Dwight has grown since he entered the league. Regardless, he goes over 6'10 in shoes. It doesn't make any sense to talk about how Dwight is 6'9 and then mention another player's height with shoes on. Almost all NBA heights are w/shoes , but there is flexibility. If a player requests to be listed at a certain height it's usually not a problem.


I know but I didn't mention another players height in shoes.

Bosh's 6'10 1/4" measurement was without shoes as was Shaq's 7'1" measurement.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

ShaqAttack3234 said:


> I know but I didn't mention another players height in shoes.
> 
> Bosh's 6'10 1/4" measurement was without shoes as was Shaq's 7'1" measurement.


Ya, I wasn't pointing to you specifically. I was talking in general, using your post as a reference to his measured height. 

Two things I want to point out. One, Howard and Bosh are basically the same height. Look at the recent Team USA photo that was posted here. Two, you have to be careful with measurements before 2000. This taken from draftexpress.com, "Measurements prior to 2000 are based on newspaper articles rather than official league documents."

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=ASC&draft=0&sort=

I am not sure that I believe Shaq is 7'1 without shoes on.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

That's a very exciting post to read e blazer1. I absolutely cannot wait for him to play this season.

The only argument I've ever seen against Oden is that he hasn't played a game yet. Nobody questions his abilities, they only have his inexperience to lean on it an argument. Soon, they won't have that.


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

bballlife said:


> Two things I want to point out. One, Howard and Bosh are basically the same height. Look at the recent Team USA photo that was posted here. Two, you have to be careful with measurements before 2000. This taken from draftexpress.com, "Measurements prior to 2000 are based on newspaper articles rather than official league documents."
> 
> http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=ASC&draft=0&sort=
> 
> I am not sure that I believe Shaq is 7'1 without shoes on.


As for Bosh and Howard well they posed in a picture at the 2007 all-star game and Bosh had over an inch on him. If Dwight claims 6'9.5" and Chris claims 6'11" then I'll take their words for it. They'd know better than we would.

I think the 7'1" measurement is accurate for Shaq. 
Hakeem Olajuwon said Shaq looks 7'2" plus Shaq at 7'1" fits with Zo at 6'9.5". 

Amare Stoudemire who was measured 6'8.5" in 2002 and has reportedly grown to 6'9.25" is dwarfed by O'Neal and I mean atleast 4 inches.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

ShaqAttack3234 said:


> As for Bosh and Howard well they posed in a picture at the 2007 all-star game and Bosh had over an inch on him. If Dwight claims 6'9.5" and Chris claims 6'11" then I'll take their words for it. They'd know better than we would.
> 
> I think the 7'1" measurement is accurate for Shaq.
> Hakeem Olajuwon said Shaq looks 7'2" plus Shaq at 7'1" fits with Zo at 6'9.5".
> ...


See, you have no idea if Bosh is talking about his height in shoes or without shoes. There is no way Bosh has 1 1/2 inches on Dwight Howard. Bosh measured a little over 6'10 without shoes before he was drafted. The Team USA picture where they are standing side by side, standing straight up, should be a good enough example to show they are very close. 

As for Shaq, I don't know. I know Mutombo has always been listed at 7'2 and is taller than Shaq.


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

bballlife said:


> See, you have no idea if Bosh is talking about his height in shoes or without shoes.


Well it was when he was on Jay Leno's show and when most people are asked their height they say their height without shoes.

Besides Bosh was already 6'11.5" with shoes when he was drafted so I doubt he's shrunk half an inch. I assume he's grown a little from 6'10 1/4" and the 6'11" claim is without shoes. That seems more logical to me.



> There is no way Bosh has 1 1/2 inches on Dwight Howard. Bosh measured a little over 6'10 without shoes before he was drafted. The Team USA picture where they are standing side by side, standing straight up, should be a good enough example to show they are very close


This is the best picture of Howard and Bosh I could find.
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/73364122.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=DE66AF07AC48D4F9A72938EE64C284D3B1DC5372FFCBAEC3 

That's a very clear angle and I could easily see 1 1/2 inches between them. That's about the difference there was when they were drafted.

You can also see that Bosh's only height advantage is because of his neck so it so none of the additional height helps him on the basketball court except for court vision.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm just backing up why I believe Bosh to be 6'11" and Howard to be 6'9 1/2". I could be wrong though, I obviously haven't measured either of them. 



> As for Shaq, I don't know. I know Mutombo has always been listed at 7'2 and is taller than Shaq.


Mutombo's pre-draft measurement was 7'1 1/4" and I never thought he looked taller than O'Neal. They looked the same height in the 2001 Finals and have in almost every game I've seen when they stand next to each other. Mutombo weighs close to 100 pounds less than Shaq though so that may make him appear taller at times.

In this video at 6:16 Shaq stands right next to Mutombo and appears taller.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d6TStfE-yKo&feature=related

Shaq also measures up better next to Yao than Mutombo does.

Shaq and Yao
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/3007183.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=74E2D3AE188E477DEC0B9C83FB97D5D9591E7EC1A351FC8B
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/2985984.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=8F9AC568F4CBF43969ABD11B9BC8225A591E7EC1A351FC8B


Yao and Mutombo
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/51419708.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=EF9EAFEBB26F02D4F82A1CEC6AF360B1B1DC5372FFCBAEC3
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/51417371.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=EF9EAFEBB26F02D40692A528D56AB893B1DC5372FFCBAEC3
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/51419812.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=EF9EAFEBB26F02D41BD339724F717756B1DC5372FFCBAEC3


I'm not saying Shaq's taller in his bare feet but I think Shaq's shoes add more than Mutombo's do. I also realize pictures aren't a 100% accurate way to judge how tall someone is but if Shaq's pre-draft measurement is listed at 7'1" and that looks accurate then it seems correct to me.


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

As a Sophomore in highschool Oden was already called the best big man prospect in the country.



> CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- With the No. 1 pick in the 2004 NBA Draft, the Orlando Magic probably will take Dwight Howard or Emeka Okafor, neither of whom is the planet's most promising amateur big man.
> 
> That would be Greg Oden, but the Magic can forget about selecting him.
> 
> ...



http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/7375886


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Just change Greg Oden to Kobe Byrant and this thread would be done already


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## Somebody Call My Mama (Dec 9, 2007)

No. He's extremely injury prone and doesn't have an NBA-caliber offensive game. He'll be a solid defensive center, not much more. The black Joel Przybilla.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Somebody Call My Mama said:


> The black Joel Przybilla.


:laugh: wow


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

liekomgj4ck said:


> :laugh: wow


yea I just chose not to reply.. :sigh:


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

This guy called Bayless Ricky Davis and Oden Joel Pryzbilla. Its not even worth talking to him, imo. He obviously hates the blazers (jealous?).


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Somebody Call My Mama said:


> No. He's extremely injury prone and doesn't have an NBA-caliber offensive game. He'll be a solid defensive center, not much more. The black Joel Przybilla.


Yeah, right. Did you happen to see the NCAA championship game where Oden dropped 25 points on Al Horford, Joakim Noah and Chris Richards while being double and triple teamed the whole game?

Have you EVER actually seen the guy play? He's got great low post moves, fantastic footwork and a soft shooting touch with either hand. I like Joel and think he'll make a great back-up center, but he has NO low post moves and NO shooting touch with EITHER hand.

He's also a better free throw shooter - with his left hand - than Przybilla.

BNM


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

By the comparisons of Oden and Przybilla are so not true. Przybilla has never been caught with girls this hot...


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## OdenRoyLMA2 (May 23, 2008)

Somebody Call My Mama said:


> No. He's extremely injury prone and doesn't have an NBA-caliber offensive game. He'll be a solid defensive center, not much more. The black Joel Przybilla.


Before spouting off stupid sh*t, do you care to explain how Oden doesn't have an "NBA caliber offensive game"? And how he can't improve on it? And care how that degrades this 20 year old 7', 280 lb athletic freak to the Joel Przybilla's level?


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Tom said:


> Oden just doesn't look very intense...He reminds me of Robert Parrish.


I agree, he just doesn't seem to have a fire burning inside like a player hows "REALLY that good". To me he seem to take plays off in college which is kinda discouraging since he should of completely dominated like other players who've received this much hype.


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## OdenRoyLMA2 (May 23, 2008)

Well he put up better stats than Shaq, Hakeem, DRob, Duncan, Mourning and Ewing did in their freshman years. With one hand mind you.

People here don't seem to understand pure big men in the NCAA these days. They rarely "dominate" play, at least statistically.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

OdenRoyLMA2 said:


> Well he put up better stats than Shaq, Hakeem, DRob, Duncan, Mourning and Ewing did in their freshman years. With one hand mind you.
> 
> People here don't seem to understand pure big men in the NCAA these days. They rarely "dominate" play, at least statistically.


Statistically is not what I'm talking about. I never saw him completely take over a game like the names you mentioned. One could also argue they played against stronger competition since it was rare for players to skip college for the NBA. Meaning Oden didn't face nearly the talent Shaq, Hakeem, etc faced so it would be expected he would put up better numbers. 


People should let the regular season come along before they choke on Oden's shortest leg like they did last year once he was injured and didn't do jack.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Well then people who are talking trash about him shoudl do the same thing, no?

A lot of people here are just defending him.


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## OdenRoyLMA2 (May 23, 2008)

stevemc said:


> Statistically is not what I'm talking about. I never saw him completely take over a game like the names you mentioned. One could also argue they played against stronger competition since it was rare for players to skip college for the NBA. Meaning Oden didn't face nearly the talent Shaq, Hakeem, etc faced so it would be expected he would put up better numbers.
> 
> 
> People should let the regular season come along before they choke on Oden's shortest leg like they did last year once he was injured and didn't do jack.


Did you actaully watch Oden play last year in college? He was an absolute force on defense. As good as all the other guys I mentioned. Offensively he has a ways to improve, but he wasn't 'bad' by any means. When his hand got healthy and he was asked to dominate, he dropped 25 points, 12 rebounds, 4 blocks on 10-15 shooting against a frontline of Noah, Horford and Chris Richards. Three beasts, two of which turned out to be very solid rookies. They didn't win obviously, mostly because the guards on that team couldn't hit jack, but you get the picture.

Thanks for your classy comment, BTW.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

stevemc said:


> People should let the regular season come along before they choke on Oden's shortest leg like they did last year once he was injured and didn't do jack.


And people should also refrain from saying he has no offensive game and calling him the Black Przybilla until he actually plays a few games in the NBA.

BTW, the Przybilla comment is beyond ridiculous. 

In Joel's rookie year, his high scoring game was 3 points. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict Oden will top that in the first quarter of the first game he plays in the NBA. 

Joel's career high is 19 points - he didn't top 15 points in a game until his 4th season. I'm feeling really bold. So, I'm going to predict Oden will top 19 points in a game at least once in his rookie year. 

In 8 NBA seasons, Joel Przybilla has scored 15 or more points a total of 12 times (and only 3 times in the last 3 seasons as a starting center). Again, I'm feeling exceptionally bold and will predict Oden will surpass Przybilla's career total of 15-point games by scoring 15 or more points as least 13 times in his rookie season.

In those same 8 seasons, Joel has scored in double figures a total of 39 times. Now this may be pushing the limits and some may call me crazy, but I'm going to go totally over the top and predict Greg Oden will score in double digits at least 40 times in his rookie season, thus surpassing ALL of Joel Przybila's career scoring exploits.

BNM


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> And people should also refrain from saying he has no offensive game and calling him the Black Przybilla until he actually plays a few games in the NBA.
> 
> BTW, the Przybilla comment is beyond ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Can't say I recall jumping completely on the hate bandwagon for the Oden and saying he is like Joel Scrub. Fact is, at this point in Oden's NBA career.... Joel has done more. Can't argue that. Chances are Oden will be better than Joel, but this franchise center talk should stop until he's play some regular season basketball. Otherwise, I'd like people who are completely speculating to title their posts 'BS'.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

stevemc said:


> Otherwise, I'd like people who are completely speculating to title their posts 'BS'.


Please ask all the posters who are speculating about the anticipated performance of Derrick Rose, Michael Beasely, OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Brandon Jennings and every other player who has yet to play in an NBA game to label their posts 'BS'. And to be consistent, you may also want to ask sites like draftexpress.com and rivals.com to label their entire site as 'BS'.

No, Oden hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level. Unfortunately, that excludes anyone who thinks Joel Przybilla is a better player than Greg Oden is today in spite of Przybilla's "accomplishments".

BNM


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

ShaqAttack3234 said:


> Well it was when he was on Jay Leno's show and when most people are asked their height they say their height without shoes.


That's an assumption. 



> Besides Bosh was already 6'11.5" with shoes when he was drafted so I doubt he's shrunk half an inch. I assume he's grown a little from 6'10 1/4" and the 6'11" claim is without shoes. That seems more logical to me.


Different shoes have different thickness. Almost all NBA heights are listed in shoes. Chris Bosh saying he is 6'11 is fine, but I bet a lot of NBA players answer that same question with their “NBA” height. Why not? That's what is listed on the program, on the internet, etc. If Chris Bosh was 6'11 without shoes on, *he would be listed at 7'* just like every other 6'11 guy in the NBA. Bogut, Oden, etc.



> This is the best picture of Howard and Bosh I could find.
> http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/73364122.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=DE66AF07AC48D4F9A72938EE64C284D3B1DC5372FFCBAEC3


That picture doesn't do it because of the camera angle. How do you get that big a difference from that pic? Maybe if you count Bosh's hair. Regardless, it's off. 

Here is a much better pic-










I would say Bosh has roughly ¾ of an inch of Howard, at most. In other words, not much. 




> Shaq also measures up better next to Yao than Mutombo does.


You have to be kidding me with these examples. 



> I'm not saying Shaq's taller in his bare feet but I think Shaq's shoes add more than Mutombo's do. I also realize pictures aren't a 100% accurate way to judge how tall someone is but if Shaq's pre-draft measurement is listed at 7'1" and that looks accurate then it seems correct to me.



You can't tell anything with these pics for obvious reasons. Shaq's pre-draft measurement came from a newspaper. Repeat, a newspaper.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> Please ask all the posters who are speculating about the anticipated performance of Derrick Rose, Michael Beasely, OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Brandon Jennings and every other player who has yet to play in an NBA game to label their posts 'BS'. And to be consistent, you may also want to ask sites like draftexpress.com and rivals.com to label their entire site as 'BS'.


 The sites are pretty much BS IMO. Most of the heights and weights aren't even listed correctly for the players in most cases. Sites heavy on speculation are like tabloid mags for sports junkies.



> No, Oden hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
> 
> BNM


No, Cherokee Parks hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
No, Bryant Reeves hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
No, Yinka Dare hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
No, __________ hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.

Same thing has been said about many of NBA busts. I saw we hope for the best for Oden with out sounding like bias groupies and be realistic. The guy had success in college on an above average team with several players eventually being drafted from the same team which usually only happens in NC and Duke. He still looked solid but lazy at times. Gets drafted then shortly after he's out for the season. To be over optimistic about his return isn't something an INTELLIGENT person would do. It's something a biased groupie with their homer shades on would say not someone who's evaluating the situation based on facts.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> No, Cherokee Parks hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
> No, Bryant Reeves hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
> No, Yinka Dare hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
> No, __________ hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.


LMFAO! wow, you just lost this arguement right there. Wow... horrid rebuttle.


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## ShaqAttack3234 (Jul 11, 2008)

> Different shoes have different thickness. Almost all NBA heights are listed in shoes. Chris Bosh saying he is 6'11 is fine, but I bet a lot of NBA players answer that same question with their “NBA” height. Why not? That's what is listed on the program, on the internet, etc. If Chris Bosh was 6'11 without shoes on, *he would be listed at 7'* just like every other 6'11 guy in the NBA. Bogut, Oden, etc.


Kevin Garnett was 6'11 w/o shoes when he was drafted and is now 6'11 3/4 but he gets listed 6'11. That's one of the more well known cases of that but if KG can be listed below his height then why can't Bosh? They often don't update the weights after players grow so what makes you think they'll always update the heights?





> That picture doesn't do it because of the camera angle. How do you get that big a difference from that pic? Maybe if you count Bosh's hair. Regardless, it's off.


How is the camera angle off? You're just making up sh*t. That's easily an inch and a half in that picture.



> Here is a much better pic-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Much better pic? That's a joke right? The other one is them standing right next to eachother in a much closer picture. Group pictures are horrible to judge height in. Bosh is also slouching even more in the picture you posted as you can see his neck doesn't look ridiculously long like in the picture I posted.

So you can judge to the exact 1/4 inch in a picture? Now that's funny.




> You have to be kidding me with these examples.



Much better examples then you just saying "I know Mutombo is taller" when you provided no examples. If you save the pictures I posted and draw a line from the top of Shaq and Deke's heads then Shaq's comes about an inch above Yao's eyebrows while Mutombo's come just to the bottom of Yao's eyebrows.

Once again both are the same height in comparison to Ewing.

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/72280376.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=54DAFB2995215ED4E9B43C8782975C15B1DC5372FFCBAEC3
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/1391055.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=9C7964D5E0207C20BA4DCE5F6EA8D7B5591E7EC1A351FC8B


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Bosh just has bigger hair than Howard, it looks like they're roughly the same height not including the hair. If they are the same height, the order in which they're standing would make sense since it would be alphabetical.


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## mynetsforlife (Dec 27, 2006)

Malik Allen > Michael Beasley. 

Jason Collins is a better creator, scorer, and playmaker than Ricky Rubio


Fun game.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

MrJayremmie said:


> LMFAO! wow, you just lost this arguement right there. Wow... horrid rebuttle.


People said the same things about hundreds of bigs drafted early was the point of my _rebuttal_. Until they play legit minutes in the NBA you're talking out your *** to say they'll be better than anyone who's actually been in the league. Just do the research, how many of the bigs drafted in the lottery over the past 20 years have lived up the hype? The odds are against Oden there. Also, how many lottery bigs have been injured their entire rookie season to bounce back to be better than future hall of fame players? How about lottery bigs who were injured most of their college career and then were injured their 1st year in the league who end up better than future hall of famers mentioned earlier in this thread?

Like I've said, let Oden get healthy before you crown him one of the best centers in the league, best pick of last year or anything else that's a complete waste of bandwidth.

I swear the same people who are already claiming Oden is something he's not already are probably the same ones who've vote injured players to the all-star game year in and year out.


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## OdenRoyLMA2 (May 23, 2008)

The only centers hyped to Oden's level that didn't live up to expectations are Walton and Sampson, for injury reasons. If Oden stays healthy I don't see why he can't join the ranks of the greats. 

Centers with his combination of size, strength, athleticism and skill don't come around very often.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

How many prospect bigs were better than Oden coming out? like 6 or 7 the past 30 years?

And i'm one of teh people that are VERY against the arguement that just because they are not in the NBA they aren'ta good player. Like I said, i think people like Chris Paul was better than Smush Parker before he played in the NBA. I think people like LeBron James and Michael Beasly were better than someone like Vladamir Radmonavic.

Just because he hasn't played in the NBA does not mean he is not good. Playing a minute in the NBA just to say you have done it doesn't make you better or worse.

To say that you can't be excited about a prospect of Oden's caliber that is rare and hasn't come along since LeBron James, and to say that you can't compare him to any big in the NBA just because he hasn't played is rediculous. A lot of blazer fans have seen him scrimmage against our team and LaMarcus Aldridge before he went down with his injuries. We saw him swat people like Roy and Outlaw, we saw him dunk on Aldridge.

And Oden is already recovering great. He didn't get surgery on the weight bearing part of the knee, and it was a very minor microfracture. That, and the fact that he is young and taking it VERY slow is wonderful and he is already in the high 80% right now.

I think it is MUCH more rediculous to have people saying that Jaron Collins is better than Greg Oden just because Oden hasn't played in the NBA yet, then someone say that Oden has the potential to be a great big man. That, imo, is talking out of your ***.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

stevemc said:


> People said the same things about hundreds of bigs drafted early was the point of my _rebuttal_. Until they play legit minutes in the NBA you're talking out your *** to say they'll be better than anyone who's actually been in the league. Just do the research, how many of the bigs drafted in the lottery over the past 20 years have lived up the hype? The odds are against Oden there. Also, how many lottery bigs have been injured their entire rookie season to bounce back to be better than future hall of fame players? How about lottery bigs who were injured most of their college career and then were injured their 1st year in the league who end up better than future hall of famers mentioned earlier in this thread?
> 
> Like I've said, let Oden get healthy before you crown him one of the best centers in the league, best pick of last year or anything else that's a complete waste of bandwidth.
> 
> I swear the same people who are already claiming Oden is something he's not already are probably the same ones who've vote injured players to the all-star game year in and year out.



how many bigs drafted in the lottery over the past 20 years have been touted as highly as greg oden, and how many of them have been busts? it's absurd to put oden and cherokee parks in the same grouping in terms of expectations and ability to meet those expectations. oden's peer group is small. very small. and very successful.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

kflo said:


> how many bigs drafted in the lottery over the past 20 years have been touted as highly as greg oden, and how many of them have been busts? it's absurd to put oden and cherokee parks in the same grouping in terms of expectations and ability to meet those expectations. oden's peer group is small. very small. and very successful.


Sounds like the same thing they say about every other big coming into the league these days. Oden has potential and that's about it right now. There's a great joke about potential and reality I'm sure everyone's heard that's too rough for the board but that's what it boils down to. Potential vs Reality. 

Reality is he's unproven by NBA standards right now. Period. Potential is all that is brought up when arguing he'll be the uber star most of the boards members claim he'll be. Call him a good prospect, use words like could be, or has the potential to be to avoid sounding as bias as I have against him in this thread. Personally, I'd take him on the Mavs but you won't hear me claiming any of the bs we've seen on the boards that he's anything but a promising rookie prospect with a bit of an injury history. I'd probably be more quietly optimistic he's back to full health for games that matter than anything. To each his own tho.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

err, yes, Oden has potential to be even better than he is now, but he is no project. The guy was NBA ready last year and only got better by polishing up his offensive game and getting a jump shot, along with studying people like Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan.

I don't think ANYBODY is arguing against the fact that he is unproven by NBA standards. I think 100% of people know that. But if we are talking about being realistic, this kid is going to be very good.

And what is wrong with saying he is good? LMAO. Nobody said he has proven he is the best center in the NBA, because he hasn't. But JUST BECAUSE he hasn't played in the NBA, does not take anything from the fact that he is a damn good player, and potentially one of the best in the league.

You don't have to play in the NBA to be a good player. I knew LeBron James was going to be a very good player in the NBA when he came out. You can use all the arguements you'd like against that, but i'd take LeBron without any NBA experience over lots of the SFs that were currently in the NBA. I think as a prospect, Oden is under LeBron but not by much. And i think Oden and LeBron are in their own class, prospect wise, than anyone to come out in the last 5 years.

A big question mark with Oden will be his durability though.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

stevemc said:


> No, Cherokee Parks hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
> No, Bryant Reeves hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.
> No, Yinka Dare hasn't yet played a minute of NBA ball, but he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level.


Please tell me you didn't just compare Greg Oden to a couple of big white stiffs and Yinka Dare. Wow! Somewhere, right about now, Mr. Dwayne Schintzius is felling mighty left out.

Seriously, the players you mentioned weren't nearly as highly reguarded or as accomplished as Oden coming into the league. Oden lead his team to three straight Indiana high school championships, lead his team to countless AAU tournament titles, was named two time Parade High School Player of the Year and as a freshaman lead Ohio State to the NCAA championship game where he was clearly the best player on the court of the eight players who were drafted (four in the top nine picks) and made NBA rosters. That's what I mean by body of work.

The only one whose pre-NBA accomplishments come even remotely close is Cherokee Parks, and he's an extremely distant second. It is also obvious to anyone who ever saw Parks play that he's smaller and considerably less athletic than Oden. He played a completely different style, and while he had a good college career, he was never considered a dominant player or consensus No. 1 overall pick.

Reeves was even less accomplished and less athletic than Parks, but prior to injuries had a couple pretty decent NBA seasons (16.2/8.1 and 16.3/7.9). So, when people are predicting similar numbers for the much more athletic, more accomplished Greg Oden, I'd hardly call that BS or unbridled homerism.

And as far as his body of work goes, that was Dare's biggest problem - he had none. He only played one year of high school ball and two years of college ball. He had an NBA body, but due to his late start was almost completely lacking in basketball skills. He was the classic "you can't teach height" draft pick amd was viewed as a major project.

Oden has dominated at every level he's played and was pegged as a future No. 1 overall pick by his sophomore year in high school. None of the other players you mentioned come close to meeting that description. As anticipated, Oden was drafted No. 1 overall. The others were drafted at 6th (Reeves), 12th (Parks) and 14th (Dare) - and all three were considered a reach at those draft positions.

I will agree with your statement about all three players that:

"he does have a body of work on which any INTELLIGENT person can make a reasonable projection of how his game will translate to the next level"

On this you are correct, and based on their bodies of work, none of Parks, Reeves or Dare projected to be a dominant NBA big man. Parks was correctly projected as an undersized, unathletic big man, Reeves was projected as a big, unathletic, lumbering center and Dare was accurately labeled as a total project - at least that's how any INTELLIGENT observer would have categorized them prior to their drafts.

Again, you are correct that Oden hasn't played a minute of real NBA basketball, but he has dominated at every level he has played (unlike all the other "examples" you have cited). While there is no guarantee he will dominate at the next level, it's not an entirely unreasonable expectation. Predictions that he will perform better than Joel Przybilla, Cherokee Parks, Bryant Reeves and Yinka Dare hardly seem unrealistic or even overely optimistic. You make some valid points, but comparing Oden to a bunch of less taleneted, less athletic daft busts seriously undermines your credibility.

BNM


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

Why don't we just let Oden play a NBA season or two before labeling him a great or bust?

The last big man with this much hype was Duncan but there was less uncertainty with Duncan than there is with Oden because Duncan played 4 years in college and didn't miss his rookie season due to injury.

Right now Oden is in Yao territory. Highly hyped and skilled big man but a level of uncertainty surrounding his potential greatness. In the end though, Yao turned out pretty damn good. Maybe not Shaq good but top 2 center in the league good. If Oden stays healthy and hungry his potential is immense.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Why don't we just let Oden play a NBA season or two before labeling him a great or bust?


Because that is what we do on message boards i suppose.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Gilgamesh said:


> Why don't we just let Oden play a NBA season or two before labeling him a great or bust?


Because that's what online discussion forums are for. I can't wait to see Oden actually play, but until then all we can do is speculate, predict, prognosticate and poo-poo.

In the end, Oden's preformance will do the talking and won't be influenced one iota by what we said here. Some of us will be right. Some of us will be wrong. In the end, it doesn't really matter.

But hey, it gives us something to talk about during the offseason. It may not be much, but it sure beats watching Mariner baseball. 

BNM


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

stevemc said:


> Sounds like the same thing they say about every other big coming into the league these days.


and you know this is false. oden's expectations are higher. that's why we have this thread. 

oden is in rare company in terms of expectations. and most of his peers in the this high expectations category have been pretty successful. what big men have had as high expectations as greg oden? 

what do you think his probability of stardom is? 30%? 50%? 75%? 90%? what do you think the odds are he's a top 10 center this year? top 5? are his numbers any different than cherokee parks were?


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

stevemc said:


> Sounds like the same thing they say about every other big coming into the league these days. Oden has potential and that's about it right now. There's a great joke about potential and reality I'm sure everyone's heard that's too rough for the board but that's what it boils down to. Potential vs Reality.


oden isn't all about potential. he's about reality. and the reality is he's going to be a very good player from the minute he steps onto an nba court and starts playing in the games. he isn't a project. he's a guy that will contribute immediately and be a very good player. he will already be a top 5 center when he starts playing. yes he has the potential to be a top 5 center of all time, but that potential doesn't change how good he'll be right away.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Throwing the trash in the conversation was to make the point that people play into the hype of bigs far more than guards because of the rarity of a dominant center in the league today. There's always individuals who are overly optimistic about players who've never panned out. I do believe Oden has more of a solid foundation of athleticism and skill that could make him a better pro than all the names I mentioned *if he stays healthy*. Then again that's just a prediction based on what I've seen as an individual. 

I probably wouldn't argue against the over optimistic outlook on Greg Oden if he wasn't injured most of his basketball career outside of High School or saw people discrediting players who have already proved something in the league over a guy who's yet to stay healthy in the league. 

Now an interesting twist that Oden sitting out all year puts on this season is that we now have a handful of rookies that people have claimed to be once in a generation type players. Can all of them be that good? The odds would be one or two do not live up to their billing.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Throwing the trash in the conversation was to make the point that people play into the hype of bigs far more than guards because of the rarity of a dominant center in the league today. There's always individuals who are overly optimistic about players who've never panned out. I do believe Oden has more of a solid foundation of athleticism and skill that could make him a better pro than all the names I mentioned if he stays healthy. Then again that's just a prediction based on what I've seen as an individual.
> 
> I probably wouldn't argue against the over optimistic outlook on Greg Oden if he wasn't injured most of his basketball career outside of High School or saw people discrediting players who have already proved something in the league over a guy who's yet to stay healthy in the league.
> 
> Now an interesting twist that Oden sitting out all year puts on this season is that we now have a handful of rookies that people have claimed to be once in a generation type players. Can all of them be that good? The odds would be one or two do not live up to their billing.


Good post, imo. I also am worried about his injuries, as i think his health will play a huge factor in how good he can be.


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