# How about Kirilenko?



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

He just demanded a trade and I believe he might be a better option than Artest given the fact that he is a multi-faceted SF without any headcase issues. He very well could be the answer we need to clearing up the log jam on our team. How about trading Ronaldo Balkman, Jared Jefferies, and either Jamal Crawford or Quentin Richardson?


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I can get behind that one*

What I like over Artest is that he gives us more things that the 4 and 5 are deficient at....shot blocking...defense...boards...and hustle. Pull the trigger, Twink.


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## da1nonly (May 8, 2006)

I wouldnt mind Kirilenko here. He'll make up a little for the defenseive liability brought on by Zach and Eddy. Trade Zach Randolph for him.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

gimme gimme gimme. He's expensive as hell, but I'll take him over JJ, that's for sure. He's what we need, a defender (both blocks and steals, and amazing man defense), a rebounder and a great two way ballplayer. He's what we need.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I still prefer artest , but i wouldn't overpay for either .

artest might have mental issues and is at the least alil' flaky .

ak-47 isn't a real small forward he is a combo forward whose game isn't really suited for either position , i like his game alot but I've been giving it some thought lately .

basically his game is sufferring because boozer owns the post , and williams dominates the ball ( and rightfully so) ...I am having a hard time seeing how his situation would be much better in NY with the post owned by 2 players and the ball belonging to jamal and steph.

its not like artest who is a legit 18-20 point a game scorer you find touches for players like that , i dont think thomas would care much to get kirilenko touches when he would be the least effective with the ball out of the guys on the floor among the starters.

with artest i trust thomas knows exactly how much he is worth because he coached him already and knows how crazy or not he is because he saw him everyday for almost 2 years.

ak-47 provides shotblocking which the knicks could surely use , rebounding is nice but the knicks can already board with the best of them....aretst seems to be a guy who can space the offense or be a focal point of the offense if need be, he creates turnovers and he is a lockdown defender, good rebounder and a very good if not great help defender....but not at kirilenko's level as a help defender


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Isn't Jared Jefferies suppose to be the same type of player?


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: I can get behind that one*



alphaorange said:


> What I like over Artest is that he gives us more things that the 4 and 5 are deficient at....shot blocking...defense...boards...and hustle. Pull the trigger, Twink.



Alpha, do you get that gut-wrenching feeling though that we might be giving up an Andrei in Ronaldo Balkman? Honestly, all I did was read a few headlines on hoopshype regarding Kirilenko wanting a deal and went from there just as quick without thinking much about what would be necessary to give up. Let's remember that Ronaldo hasn't even been giving the playing time to prove what he can do on the floor. Although it might take him some time to develop his game, should we sacrifice something potentially as good or better for the "hear and now?" I'd do the deal to clear out some roster space and only if we were to ditch certain bad contracts in the mix (Jerome James and/or Jared Jefferies) for Balkman. Personally I'd love to see Jerome James suffer in Utah underneath the foot of Jerry Sloan's to his ***. I also don't mind giving up Quentin Richardson because while he is a solid player in my opinion, he can be replaced by Houston immediately and Nichols down the line; the Jazz need a SG anyway.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> I still prefer artest , but i wouldn't overpay for either .
> 
> artest might have mental issues and is at the least alil' flaky .
> 
> ...


To be honest, after moving Quentin Richardson/ Jamal Crawford and/or Ronaldo Balkman, I do not believe touches will be much of an issue. With Marbury getting older, Isiah is forcing him to take less and less shots in the first 3 quarters so there should be a couple available to go around. Although we'll be a half-court offensive team, we appear to be a very efficient offensive team boasting two low post players who shoot at about a 50% or better clip. I think that alone should leave quite a few shots open because your taking higher quality shots which leads to more shots being available.

I never really saw Kirilenko as being an offensive threat (although it appears he thinks he is) so I don't envision him needing that many. Hopefully if the trade is made we could try and sign a guy like Allan Houston who could provide some of the outside shooting we'd lose from Richardson or Crawford.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

I just reviewed the numbers from last year as well as the health issues and come to the conclusion that a trade for Kirilenko is a no-go for me. The go only averaged 4ppg, 1bpg, and 2apg more than Jared Jefferies did last year and that was with Jefferies playing 5 minutes per game less and missing the entire pre-season. I support bringing in bonafide player to the Knicks but I don't believe Kirilenko is that player unless we get him for virtually nothing and if that is the case, we'd still be presented with the issue of playing time.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> To be honest, after moving Quentin Richardson/ Jamal Crawford and/or Ronaldo Balkman, I do not believe touches will be much of an issue. With Marbury getting older, Isiah is forcing him to take less and less shots in the first 3 quarters so there should be a couple available to go around. Although we'll be a half-court offensive team, we appear to be a very efficient offensive team boasting two low post players who shoot at about a 50% or better clip. I think that alone should leave quite a few shots open because your taking higher quality shots which leads to more shots being available.
> 
> I never really saw Kirilenko as being an offensive threat (although it appears he thinks he is) so I don't envision him needing that many. Hopefully if the trade is made we could try and sign a guy like Allan Houston who could provide some of the outside shooting we'd lose from Richardson or Crawford.


1. i would never give up so much for kirilenko, i really dont see him as so much of an upgrade over Q because what you gain on defense , you lose some of that on offense...unlike Artest in which you gain on both sides of the ball.




> I just reviewed the numbers from last year as well as the health issues and come to the conclusion that a trade for Kirilenko is a no-go for me. The go only averaged 4ppg, 1bpg, and 2apg more than Jared Jefferies did last year and that was with Jefferies playing 5 minutes per game less and missing the entire pre-season. I support bringing in bonafide player to the Knicks but I don't believe Kirilenko is that player unless we get him for virtually nothing and if that is the case, we'd still be presented with the issue of playing time.


i basically would give something in the neighborhood of the 2 expirings and jared ...or malik at the most i'd add wilson or nichols.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*More inclines to trade Chandler*

than Nichols, at this time. If Dnic pans out, he gives more of what we need. Chandler is more redundant to Balkman.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: More inclines to trade Chandler*



alphaorange said:


> than Nichols, at this time. If Dnic pans out, he gives more of what we need. Chandler is more redundant to Balkman.


it really matters what the team believes the player's individual ceiling is and how high the team is on them contributing .

i dont see how balkman and chandler are at all similar , one is an offensive player ...the other is a defensive player .

personally if the knicks have decent health at the 2/3 spots neither plays much if at all with balkman , richardson crawford jeffries and Lee clearly ahead of them on the depth chart.

I always pretty much assumed if a deal for artest or ak-47 came to light at least 1 of chandler or nichols had to go anyway...its never a good idea to delevop too many players at 1 spot and right now the knicks have lee , balkman and these 2 all trying to develop their 3 man skills playing behind richardson and jeffries...if they aquired artest or kirilenko the small forward picture just gets murkier unless guys are dealt.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> 1. i would never give up so much for kirilenko, i really dont see him as so much of an upgrade over Q because what you gain on defense , you lose some of that on offense...unlike Artest in which you gain on both sides of the ball.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As much as trading for Kirilenko has it's drawbacks (giving up young talent and key players) I think it might have a silver-lining in the fact that we can ditch alot of the long term contracts we have on this team and condense them into just one; which just happens to be owned by a particular player teams would be willing to trade an expiring contract for. Jared Jefferies, Jerome James, Quentin Richardson and Ronaldo Balkman certainly would make me pause if I had a financial plan for the future in place because Wilson Chandler and Demetris Nichols are just that high on my list at the 2 and 3 spots (unless Kobe is in play).


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: More inclines to trade Chandler*

Grinch....they are VERY similiar. Both have decent handles and are good passers for their position...both are above average rebounders and good defenders...and both are hustle guys. Big difference is Chandler is a better shooter at this point.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Andrei Kirilenklo is not needed on this Knick Roster when the Knicks could get his same performance from either Rookie Demetris Nichols, or Chandler, or the second season amazing "TAZ" man Balkman.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: More inclines to trade Chandler*



alphaorange said:


> Grinch....they are VERY similiar. Both have decent handles and are good passers for their position...both are above average rebounders and good defenders...and both are hustle guys. Big difference is Chandler is a better shooter at this point.


they really aren't 

a big criticism of chandler's game in college was his motor, wheras balkman is on an motor level by himself.

balkman hasn't avg. double figure points since high school , and wilson is a scorer ,

wilson showed he has a mid range jumpshot and a 3point shot and can take players off the dribble ...balkman really cant do any of these things even though he does have a good handle , its just not the kind that can break down the defense in the halfcourt, he's more of a full court pusher.

chandler actually has more in common with nichols than balkman .


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Actually...*

There were questions about Balkman's motor in college, as well. I'm not sure what games you watched, but Chandler was not taking guys off the dribble this summer. His points came inside and off jumpers, which is still not his strong suit. I'll bend a little on this but he really doesn't offer much that Balkman doesn't...sans jumper.

Kiyaman, Dnic's game doesn't resemble AK-47s at all. Less of a help defender, less of a rebounder, and much, much more of a perimeter player. Dnic has the opportunity to be a special player. He has the length and desire to be an excellent defender at the 2 and 3, but he shoots like Reggie Miller. As good a shooter as he is, defense will win him a spot.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Actually...*



alphaorange said:


> There were questions about Balkman's motor in college, as well. I'm not sure what games you watched, but Chandler was not taking guys off the dribble this summer. His points came inside and off jumpers, which is still not his strong suit. I'll bend a little on this but he really doesn't offer much that Balkman doesn't...sans jumper.
> 
> Kiyaman, Dnic's game doesn't resemble AK-47s at all. Less of a help defender, less of a rebounder, and much, much more of a perimeter player. Dnic has the opportunity to be a special player. He has the length and desire to be an excellent defender at the 2 and 3, but he shoots like Reggie Miller. As good a shooter as he is, defense will win him a spot.


any1 who questioned balkman's motor in college was stupid.

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/renaldobalkman.html

I didn't see every balkman game not by a long shot but i saw enough of him to know he didn't have a problem hustling , in fact i saw a couple of games in which his energy level was so high it made the guy he was guarding stop trying to get the ball and basically quit on the offensive side of the ball.

thats a rare type of energy and its noticable...balkman has it , no other knick has it and if i were to name a knick who could possible resemble that it wouldn't be chandler .


about chandler's handle , i saw him create his own shot on summer league a few times usually settling for a stop and pop off the dribble ...also chandler may have a stronger J than you are giving him credit for he hit 40+ % from 3 in summer league which i believe was better than every knick but nate robinson.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

Explain to me how Kirilenko has no "head case" issues unlike Artest; the man has CRIED on more than one occassion during the season because he's either been lit up by another player or doesn't get "enough" PT and/or shots. He's trying to get traded from a potential WC powerhouse and wants to give up all of his money to do it. 

And do y'all REALLY think this weakling can endure the NY media? He'll be crying and begging for a trade the second Marbury says something negative about him or he has a not-so-good article written about him in the Post.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

djtoneblaze said:


> Explain to me how Kirilenko has no "head case" issues unlike Artest; the man has CRIED on more than one occassion during the season because he's either been lit up by another player or doesn't get "enough" PT and/or shots. He's trying to get traded from a potential WC powerhouse and wants to give up all of his money to do it.
> 
> And do y'all REALLY think this weakling can endure the NY media? He'll be crying and begging for a trade the second Marbury says something negative about him or he has a not-so-good article written about him in the Post.


Actually, you made excellent points that I sort of agree with. The difference is that I feel Kirilenko's issues can be fixed by playing for a team that he fits and feels comfortable with. There doesn't appear to be anything that can solve Artest's problems (because he just might be crazy).


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