# Free Agency discussion thread



## Yao Mania

Well, we've started a draft thread already, so might as well start a free agency one!

I think we all want to see *Bogans* and *Hayes* come back, so re-signing them is a given.

I hope we can finally make a run at bringing *Vassilis Spanoulis* to town.

Some posters have mentioned *Rasual Butler* as a potential pick-up, and the idea seems to be well received.

My ideas:
*Qyntel Woods*
Had a troubled and disappointing NBA up until joining the Knicks, where he had a chance to shine before Jalen Rose took over his starting spot. A great all around player, and very interesting to look back at his draft profile back in the days:
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm

Just imagine what he can learn playing behind Mcgrady!

*Darrell Armstrong*
As if we need anymore old guys... but he's a true PG and can bring some leadership in the position. Will probably play as much as Rick Brunson but I wouldn't mind brining him here for mentorship purposes for the minimum.

*Jiri Welsch*
This team can use a lil' Euro flava, and Lampe just ain't doing it. A very reliable role player that we can work into the rotation, though his season in Cleveland certainly doesn't look impressive.


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## Hakeem

I didn't know Woods' contract is expiring. The Knicks aren't going to be able to re-sign him, are they? I read that he's one of the few guys Larry Brown is actually pleased with. From what I've seen and heard, he's a good defender. Athletic, and doesn't take many bad shots.


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## HayesFan

*06/07 Lineup needs*

Okay, so after the game last night I started thinking, what position on this team needs the most as far as the depth chart is concerned...

so here's what we have right now (barring injuries and bringing everyone back)

PG Rafer Alston | Rick Brunson 
SG Luther Head | David Wesley | Bob Sura | Richie Frahm
SF T-Mac | Keith Bogans | Chuck Hayes | Ryan Bowen
PF Juwan Howard | Stromile Swift 
C Ming Yao | Dikembe Mutombo | Maciej Lampe

before I go rearranging and planning... where do yall find out how much time is left on their contracts and such.. to know who's going to be a free agent besides Chuck and Keith?


edit: keep in mind I am an NBA rookie.. and still learning about all this craziness! :biggrin:


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## HayesFan

Edit: thank you for merging my thread!


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## Gotham2krazy

*Re: 06/07 Lineup needs*



HayesFan said:


> before I go rearranging and planning... where do yall find out how much time is left on their contracts and such.. to know who's going to be a free agent besides Chuck and Keith?
> 
> 
> edit: keep in mind I am an NBA rookie.. and still learning about all this craziness! :biggrin:


you can check on sites like realgm.com just go to the trade checker and pick the team that the the player's on and see, but I also think theree's another alternative on that site, can't really recall.
also, you can check through espn's trade machine if you wish.


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## Gotham2krazy

Yao Mania said:


> *Jiri Welsch*
> This team can use a lil' Euro flava, and Lampe just ain't doing it. A very reliable role player that we can work into the rotation, though his season in Cleveland certainly doesn't look impressive.


That's actually not a bad idea, what we need is pure shooters, Rasual Butler, Jiri Welsch, just might compensate if we decide not to resign Keith and David, since Frahm hasn't exactly made his value yet. I don't know what's the deal with Bob Sura, but if he's not ready by October, we might as well buy him out and mold Luther into a PG because I see quite some potential in him with playmaking. And that guy Lampe, wasn't he supposedly another one of them "Future Dirks" in retrospect? I don't know exactly how good his game is, but I don't think he's fantastic if he hasn't gotten a minute of playing time under JVG, so maybe we can buy him out? Or just keep him until his contract expires. So I'd like for our roster to look like this next season:

PG: Rafer Alston/Luther Head
SG: Brandon Roy/Jiri Welsch/Richie Frahm
SF: Tracy McGrady/Rasual Butler
PF: Chuck Hayes/Juwan Howard/ Maciej Lampe
C : Ming Yao/Stromile Swift


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## OneBadLT123

make some cap room and sign peja!


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## Cornholio

Yao Mania said:


> *Jiri Welsch*
> This team can use a lil' Euro flava, and Lampe just ain't doing it. A very reliable role player that we can work into the rotation, though his season in Cleveland certainly doesn't look impressive.


Welsch is playing in Milwaukee.


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## sherwin

We need to move Swift in order to get a good starting 4, Juwan on the bench. Need a good 2. No more scrubs on this team.


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## jworth

I wouldn't mind some type of draft luck like the Mavs got with Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels a few years back.

As far as free agents go, none of those guys should get big contracts but if you can bring in Rasul Butler for a fairly small contract then it would be worth it. The problem with this free agent crop is that players are going to be overpaid since there aren't m*any * stars to throw the big cash to.


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## chn353

OneBadLT123 said:


> make some cap room and sign peja!



lol i wish

PG: Alston/luther head/2nd round draft
SG: Brandon roy/sura/frahm
SF: tmac/bogans
PF: chuck/juwan/2nd round draft
C: yao/swift


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## HayesFan

PG: Alston/1st Round pick - Marcus Williams or Randy Foye
SG: Head/Sura
SF: T-mac/Bogans/2nd round pick - maybe Brandon Rush or PJ Tucker if they are still around
PF: Juwan/Hayes
C: Yao/Mutumbo/Swift

did you notice... NO RYAN BOWEN on my list!!! Hey or anyone elses!!!


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## rocketeer

pg - alston/dee brown(2nd round pick)
sg - brandon roy(1st round pick)/head/bogans
sf - tmac/rasual butler(free agent)/bogans
pf - howard/swift/hayes
c - yao/swift/mutumbo

i really don't see a way to fix the pf problem this season unless we get lucky and can draft aldridge.


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## debarge

Personally there isn't anyone on this team outside of the 'real core' I care very much about signing.
Tracy Yao Rafer Juwan Luther everyone else is expendable, or the position could be improved. I think we needs several things over the off-season/draft/FAgency:

A prototypical sized athletic 2 grd is an absolute must, if Bumbling Gumby is to continue as the Rocs coach, he better find a real wingman for Tmac! :curse: Even LeBron has a running mate in Larry Hughes, Vinsanity has RJ and Kidd. Tracy and Rafer need that 3rd guy (who we will hopefully draft)

In case we draft poorly which is a distinct possibilty, (I could easily see Gumby and the new Ast GM falling in love w/ JJ Redick since his stats are great) We need to get Q Richardson/Q Woods/Butler/ in the backcourt. Out of all those guys I like Quentin the best, he's a proven shooter and can drive and is a decent passer and ballhandler.

The need for a true PF ( a strong rebounder to pair w/ Yao ie. Duncan w/ Rasho and Nazr M.) if you get a player like that, he can also be your backup center. kill 2 birds w/ one stone...

A backup PG or just keep Richie Frahm and Luther as your hired guns off the bench and let Lu be the primary ballhandler. (also someone mentioned Sura, I feel bad for that guy in a way, I know he wants to play but he cannot buy him out if he's not ready to free up roster space) Darryl Armstrong is not a bad choice at all? Though I'd rather get Juan Dixon, Travis Best, or even Brent Barry, yes I said Brent Barry. (size and shooting guys size and shooting)

Alot of what we do in the summer depends on the draft, if we make a solid pick like we did with Luther, we can really put something together. If we draft silly, then we're sinking the ship before we sail. (Carney, Roby, Roy, Gay, Morrison, and a few others, again I really think we're gonna end up drafting JJ, he'll be left there I'm sure. He wouldn't be bad, he just wouldn't be very helpful. That's a smalll backcourt Rafer w/ JJ and Luther off the bench???

For the love of God don't resign Wesley, Bogans, Bowen, Dke, Hayes had a chance to show Jeff he's a clutchman but alas wasn't meant to be. Love Chuck but he hasn't proven 2 Gumby he's better than Bowen as a defender/enegry/spark. I think he is but Jeff never has positive things 2 say about his hustle. So I fear Chuck will be gone... I'd give Frahm another serious look in the pre-season and summer league, the guy is a shooter and pretty smart/ did u see the dunks to the hole? :clap: He and Luther can really grow together.

One thing that has 2 happen is Stromile has to finally wake up, or we're not going anywhere, Juwan is literally on his last legs, and w/ his deal we can't trade him. So wake up Stro! Get your *** in the weight room! Work on your jumphook, watch some film like Yao and get w/ the program... :curse: somebody 911 Tom Tibideua.


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## HayesFan

debarge said:


> For the love of God don't resign Wesley, Bogans, Bowen, Dke, Hayes had a chance to show Jeff he's a clutchman but alas wasn't meant to be. Love Chuck but he hasn't proven 2 Gumby he's better than Bowen as a defender/enegry/spark. I think he is but Jeff never has positive things 2 say about his hustle. So I fear Chuck will be gone...


As much as I hate to agree.. Chuck missing those free throws was not a good thing for his resigning chances. But he did grab the rebound on the missed free throw on the other end to give the Rockets a chance to win. Hopefully, he can pick up some good minutes in the last games to prove his worth.

:whoknows: 

However, I did finally see JVG praise Chuck after the Kings game.



> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3780571.html
> Chuck Hayes I thought did a great job keeping us in there in the third quarter. He was very ready to play and did well.


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## rocketeer

i think chuck definitely stays. he will be cheap and is proven to at least be solid off the bench. i would really like to see him get a consistent 20 minutes a game.


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## Hakeem

^ Agreed. Those missed free throws mean very little. Players miss free throws all the time. It doesn't mean it's always going to happen at the end of games. On a per minute basis, he's one of the best rebounders in the league. He hasn't shown it yet, but he's supposed to be a good defender, too. Would be a crimminal waste to give up on him.


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## chn353

chuck hayes is only cheap because his still a rookie.. but if he continues to play like he does i can see a big n good contract for him in 2009 or maybe a good trade for him


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## Demiloy

Does anyone know what happened to Malick Badiane? Is he going to come to the Rockets at all?


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## jworth

Demiloy said:


> Does anyone know what happened to Malick Badiane? Is he going to come to the Rockets at all?


I have been wondering about him for a while now. Since they haven't brought him over I'm guessing he's not even as good as our Ryan Bowens (?). Let's hope that's not the case.


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## reno2000

the moves we make in free agency are gonna be hard to predict...alot depends on the draft, if we fill the 2 spot with roy, gay, carney, brewer or collins...then all our efforts should go towards strengthening our front court....and the opposite if we draft a big man.

no matter what, i dont want to see wesley or bowen in a red uniform next year. im not completely sold on bogans or hayes either...bogans has choked as a starter, but maybe he just isnt starter material and is better of the bench..and hayes hasnt gotten enuff minutes to prove his long term value. its also about time we gave up on sura and deke...they dont have much more than 1yr of usefullness left, so keep them their only in the event of mass injuries. 

as for possible FA pick ups...rasual butler would be nice...but i think someone with more cash will pick him up cause he has made a good case for himself this year. someone floated brent barrys name around, he wouldnt be bad, but he is gettin on in years too and we dont wanna go down the same track again.


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## chn353

no way brent barry his too old.. but def try and sign rasual butler his dominant on the perimeter. if we get rasual butler theres not too much use with bob sura but i agree with reno def dont want to see bowen or wesley in red next year


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## Mavericks_Fan

Looks like Al Harrington wants to move and he's a free agent after this year. Could bring him in to play small forward and move T-Mac to off guard (assuming he doesn't get used as trade bait).


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## jworth

The sad, sad thing is that I thought last off-season was supposed to save this franchise. Somebody catch my tears.


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## Dean the Master

Al Harrington would not come to houston, because some other teams can easily give him a lot more $$ then houston can offer. However, it would be a really nice pick up. I agree our FA movements are all depended on the draft which i think we would get very decent rookies. 
R.Butler can fit this team very nicely, We should go after him, if not Harrington.
Let David Wesly go, trade away B.Sura. Ryan is a nice guy (somebody please do something with him)...and that's it. 
Sign Hayes and Bogans.
The movement of Swift would be a judgement call.


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## HayesFan

deanchueng said:


> Ryan is a nice guy (somebody please do something with him)...and that's it.



I think Demiloy said Ryan can come wash his car. 

I think maybe I am biased where Bowen is concerned because I know Chuck could be getting more minutes if Ryan wasn't out there.


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## rocketeer

HayesFan said:


> I think maybe I am biased where Bowen is concerned because I know Chuck could be getting more minutes if Ryan wasn't out there.


hayes would get more minutes, but it would be at small forward and while chuck would be better than bowen, i don't think he would be very effective as a small forward.


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## The_Franchise

If Houston doesn't want to push for a Mobley/Maggette trade this offseason, signing Greg Buckner for a little more than half the MLE would be huge. I wanted Houston to sign him or Raja Bell last offseason, but Denver resigned him for the LLE. Buckner was the first name that came to my mind, I'll post more later.


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## reno2000

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> If Houston doesn't want to push for a *Mobley/Maggette trade* this offseason, signing Greg Buckner for a little more than half the MLE would be huge. I wanted Houston to sign him or Raja Bell last offseason, but Denver resigned him for the LLE. Buckner was the first name that came to my mind, I'll post more later.



what are we gonna give clippers for mobley or maggette. rockets have one of the least tradable rosters in the nba...apart from our core players(tmac, yao, rafer and maybe head)...there is not much else that is attractive tradable assets.

the best situation i could see given what tradable players we have is:

give up rafer alston and swift, for maggette/mobley plus a semi decent player on their team, like q.ross or somethin


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## jworth

I just can't see a winning team looking to get rid of solid talent in return for nothing.


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## chn353

ye they dont really need a PF and a PG seeing as theyve already got elton brand and shaun livingston. if we wanted those players we would need to get rid of tmac which i dont think any1 would


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## reno2000

thats what i mean...we have absolutely nuthin to give them...even rafer and swift for mobley is gettin them ZERO


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## The_Franchise

*Alot of you have been interested in Smith for a while...*

http://www.nola.com/hornets/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/114577603043530.xml



> "I don't think I'll have to ask for a trade; it's going to be automatic," Smith said. "I would like to go anywhere; it doesn't matter if it's a losing team. I just want to be out there to help on the court."
> 
> In February, Smith and Scott publicly disclosed that a rift had developed, and they were not on speaking terms for nearly two months. At the time, Smith thought Scott had taken it personally for not playing him regularly. Scott said Smith's demotion was a result of his immaturity, poor work habits and lack of improvement since his rookie season in 2004-05.
> 
> During the final two months of the season, they appeared to co-exist without having much contact besides game-related matters. However, Scott spoke bluntly Thursday about Smith's deficiencies during the season.
> 
> "All the things we talked about (that he needed to improve on), he never really did those things," Scott said. "He might grow up one day, but from a coaching standpoint, I live in the present. I need guys who can help right now. When he grows up and starts playing, I might be in the stands somewhere with somebody else coaching the team."



Keep in mind San Antonio tried trading Barry for him right at the deadline, so the guy can still play. If we can get him for cheap, I say why not. Beautiful stroke with a good ability to finish the fast break.



> "If I'm traded, I won't be mad, because it's a business, and that's what happens," Smith said. "But I'm going to Houston to spend the entire summer there to work on every part of my game, so there won't be any excuses."


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## jworth

Would we have a shot at trading for J.R. Smith if we don't get Brandon Roy in the draft?


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## Gotham2krazy

Do you guys think NJ's still interested in Swift? I think come draft night we're going to package someone for an extra pick or move up a bit.


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## Cornholio

I would love to have J.R. Smith in Houston.
But as always what do we have that the Hornets could want back??


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## Gotham2krazy

cornholio said:


> I would love to have J.R. Smith in Houston.
> But as always what do we have that the Hornets could want back??


Juwan Howard?


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## TManiAC

I have a feeling that Greg Buckner is looking to get overpaid. IMHO he is a career back-up and can't offer much more than what Keith Bogans is already providing. My understanding is Buckner, at the begining of the season, desired somewhere in the range of the MLE... mind you Bruce Bowen only makes $3.5 Million. I don't think it would be in the Rockets best interest to commit to a career-backup for that kind of money.

Raja Bell is someone I had harped about all throughout the offseason: great defense, excellent quickness, coachable. Colangelo definitely made a great move in acquiring Bell, although he might have been overpaid just a tad.

Brent Barry is a solid prospect. He certainly isn't out of steam although he's approaching 35 years old. He is a respectable combo guard much like his brother Jon Barry, except with more athleticism and length. Still, his defense isn't the most effective and his shot has diminished with extended bench time in San Antonio. Additionally, I don't see why San Antonio would want to correspond with Houston, who is still a potent rival, when a more desirable deal can be architected with a cross-conference franchise (e.g. sign-and-trade for Mike James in Toronto?).

As for JR Smith, I'ld rather not have a whiny, self-important, "knuckle-head" jeopardize our weakest position in the rotation. 


*FREE AGENTS*

*PG Candidates: *

Lindsey Hunter - Has a polished understanding of defense and is very quick on his feet. Perhaps Skip and Luther Head can learn a few tricks from Lindsey Hunter who would help to control flow and establish perimeter defense. Can be acquired with the minimum.

Darrell Armstrong - Was nicknamed "Flash" for his speed and athleticism. Was best playing next to TMac in his Orlando days. Not the best-play maker but is a dead-eye shooter and enthusiastic defender. A great presence in the locker-room and a leader wherever he goes. A poor (and older) man's Bobby Jackson at a much cheaper price. Can be acquired with the minimum.

*SG Candidates:*

DerMarr Johnson - What most impresses me about DerMarr is his mobility. At 6'9" he can run, jump, and dunk with the quickness of a 2-guard. Still, his offense is rough around the edges and often relies on his athleticism. Has some range on his shot but lacks the confidence to take those shots with regularity. Has all the tools to play great defense but isn't seen applying those tools. If groomed correctly, he would most remind me of a longer James Posey. I think he would be an ideal backup swingman behind TMac and can be had at the minimum.
*
SF Candidates:*

Devean George - Has good size and strength and is an ideal role-player. Doesn't do anything especially well but can give you a little bit of everything. With George, a fringe starter, playing extended backup minutes at the SF position, it would allow TMac to play at his more advantageous position of SG, thereby increasing our offensive production without giving up much on defense. The price issue is similar to Greg Buckner's, marginal benefits at high-cost, especially when considering his recent health issues. 

Rasual Butler - A consensus favorite in the Rockets forums. The only issue that remains to be seen is how much NOK and other high-bidders are willing to offer him.

Qyntell Woods - Certainly intriguing and many analysts' pick for having a breakout year, soon. Has lots of potential. Many draft scouts compared him to TMac. I would say he's more like Marquis Daniels without the silkiness and his understanding of the game still is considerably raw. New York is high on Qyntell and we all know that NY has deeper pockets than most other teams.

Jared Jeffries - Very long and athletic at 6'11. I've watched many Wizards games as I am a DC/Baltimore native. Jeffries has all the tools and mechanics to be another Tayshaun Prince. Unfortunately, he hasn't had much opportunity to develop much consistency. I think under Van Gundy, he can become a nightmare on defense. Will likely be too expensive for us.

*PF Candidates:*

Melviin Ely - A real bruiser at the PF spot and can play some C. Attitude needs adjustment but offers the toughness of Charles Oakley that can benefit the rockets notoriously "soft" reputation.

*C Candidates:*

Francisco Elson - The enforcer. He can bruise with the best of them in the post and isn't shy about handing out hard fouls. Good post defender and very effective in short spurts but inept on offense. Sound alot like Deke? The best part is that something in the neighborhood of Deke's contract ($2.0 Mill) would be enough to net Francisco, long-term.

*DRAFTEES*

1st Round Candidates:

Brandon Roy 
Randy Foye 
Shelden Williams 

2nd Round Candidates:

Hassan Adams 
PJ Tucker 
Dee Brown 
Yi Jianlian 

*
Preferred Course of Action*

PG: Sign Lindsey Hunter with the Minimum, Sign Vassili Spanoulis
SG: Draft Brandon Roy with 1st Round Draft choice
SF: Sign Rasual Butler for $3.5 Million of the MLE, Draft PJ Tucker with 2nd Round Draft choice, Re-sign Chuck Hayes with the Minimum
PF: No Action
CN: Sign Francisco Elson for remaining MLE

*Rotation:*

PG: Rafer Alston | Lindsey Hunter | Vassili Spanoulis
SG: Tracy McGrady | Brandon Roy | Luther Head
SF: Rasual Butler | PJ Tucker | Chuck Hayes
PF: Juwan Howard | Stromile Swift 
CN: Yao Ming | Dikembe Mutombo | Francisco Elson

Inactive: Bobby Sura

*Thought: *

Rafer Alston has pretty much held down the PG spot and is proving to be a component in the Rocket's long-term goals. Still, JVG and others have reason to believe that Rafer lacks the regularity and composure to run the point 30+ minutes a game. That is, there needs to be another point guard to challenge him and to restore order when Rafer becomes too engaged in one-on-one competitions. Lindsey Hunter is probably the cheapest solution to such a problem and could prove valuable as a part-time coach to Skip. The addition of Vassili Spanoulis as a third option provides additional insurance should Skip and Hunter fall victim to injury. Head and possibly Sura could also help to pad a thinning PG rotation. In other words, it would be un-necessary to spend or to use a high draft pick to jam up a stable rotation, no drastic changes are needed at PG.

Shooting Guard is the primary concern to be addressed in the offseason. A considerable improvement must be made and the Free Agent market does not leave many feasible option. In that line of thought, the Rockets would obviously have to address the SG problem in the draft, given that the trade market is uncertain and can not be relied upon to fix such a glaringly obvious problem. My choice would be Brandon Roy. He is versatile and can shoot the ball. Certainly there is potential for him to become an impactful starter in this league. To the Drafter's advantage, Roy already has 4 years of polished basketball experience.

One consistent problem is the ability, or lack thereof, of the Rockets to shoot three pointers. Outside of Tracy McGrady, there is no one playing the SF spot that can shoot from outside and relieve pressure inside for Yao Ming. Rasual Butler commands the respect of defenders as he is an exceptional shooter from outside and may also be a best buy for those services considering he is of relative cheap value. The bonus is that Butler maintains the defensive philosophy of the team. Chuck Hayes has grown quite a following for his heady rebounding, hustle, and physicality. At the minimum, he is one of those players that gives you every pennies worth and it would be a terrible mistake to not exploit his services again next season. With the 2nd Round Draft choice, I would further solidify the SF rotation by drafting PJ Tucker. I think that Tucker can be a Ron Artest clone in terms of defensive ability. He is a strong player that will defend, rebound, and bruise the opponent into a lumpy pulp. He can bring added toughness and attitude without sacrificing the integrity and chemistry of the team. 

Deke is nearly out of gas, this is no secret to anyone. He is rebounding more with his elbows than his knees. Elson is a cheap alternative and can be molded into the Dikembe school of thought: bruise, rebound, and block shots. Although they may be similar in terms of offensive retardedness, Elson gives us the presense that Deke had plus the added enjoyment of realtime quickness whereas Deke seemed to put the entire team in slow-motion.

Please note that my proposed starting line-up is temporary. TMac starts at SG and Butler at SF because I feel that would be the best starting line until one of either Brandon Roy or PJ Tucker emerge (and Im sure one eventually will). In which case, TMac would return to SF for the former and PJ Tucker would simply start at SF for the later scenario. The point is that this remake would give the Rockets plenty of options for tweaking the lineup, plenty of three point shooting, plenty of toughness, and an insurgence of youth, quickness, and athleticism - at bare minimal cost and little risk of team implosion.


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## The_Franchise

TManiAC said:


> Jared Jeffries - Very long and athletic at 6'11. I've watched many Wizards games as I am a DC/Baltimore native. Jeffries has all the tools and mechanics to be another Tayshaun Prince. Unfortunately, *he hasn't had much opportunity to develop much consistency*. I think under Van Gundy, he can become a nightmare on defense. Will likely be too expensive for us.


Really? Started in every game he's played in and averages 25.3 mpg in a free flowing offense. I really don't think he will ever offer as much as Prince offensively, but is definitely a great role-player. Although I can't see him on the floor with McGrady at the same time, unless T-Mac has to defend the 4. 

Great post, though I've only read half of it so far.


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## TManiAC

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Really? Started in every game he's played in and averages 25.3 mpg in a free flowing offense. I really don't think he will ever offer as much as Prince offensively, but is definitely a great role-player. Although I can't see him on the floor with McGrady at the same time, unless T-Mac has to defend the 4.
> 
> Great post, though I've only read half of it so far.


I think TMac defends the two just fine.

As for Jeffries, I dont think hes had the opportunity to develop as Prince has had the opportunity. Although hes a starter on the Wizards, his minutes depend largely on how the coach wants to utilize Butler and Jamison. For the 25 minutes hes in the game, hes playing spots of SG, SF, and PF depending on his defensive matchup. The changing defensive roles don't leave much time to develop offensively, despite playing within a free-flowing offense... especially when Arenas, Butler and Jamison are putting out points the way they do.

Im not saying that Jeffries is bound to instantly change playing in the Rockets rotation, Im just pointing out a possible reason for why his numbers arent as impressive as they could be.


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## The_Franchise

TManiAC said:


> I think TMac defends the two just fine.
> 
> As for Jeffries, I dont think hes had the opportunity to develop as Prince has had the opportunity. Although hes a starter on the Wizards, his minutes depend largely on how the coach wants to utilize Butler and Jamison. For the 25 minutes hes in the game, hes playing spots of SG, SF, and PF depending on his defensive matchup. The changing defensive roles don't leave much time to develop offensively, despite playing within a free-flowing offense... especially when Arenas, Butler and Jamison are putting out points the way they do.
> 
> Im not saying that Jeffries is bound to instantly change playing in the Rockets rotation, Im just pointing out a possible reason for why his numbers arent as impressive as they could be.


McGrady is going to get tired defending opposing 2's. He seems alot more comfortable defending the 3 spot which generally has a weaker opposition... TMac can also stay closer to the rim and contest shots/rebound (Juwan isn't going to do it). IMO Putting him at SG is going to take it's toll later in the season. 

As you said, we need a reliable threat on the perimeter alongside McGrady. Someone like Redick or Mobley who make collapsing defenses on Yao think twice. Guys like Butler and Jeffries would be nice for this team off the bench, but I can't see us signing legit *SF*'s with our MLE.


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## CrackerJack

cornholio said:


> I would love to have J.R. Smith in Houston.
> But as always what do we have that the Hornets could want back??


Luther Head & Juwan Howard for JR and one of there 1st round picks which we could use to draft JJ but then would JR be willing to play as a back-up with his attitude?


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## jworth

CrackerJack said:


> Luther Head & Juwan Howard for JR and one of there 1st round picks which we could use to draft JJ but then would JR be willing to play as a back-up with his attitude?


That could work, because as athletic as JR is, he can play some at SF as well where he could come in and rest McGrady. He's only 6'4" I believe, but he would be a good asset on the perimeter at SG and SF.


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## CrackerJack

well Speedy Claxton has stated he wants to stay in NO so my dreams of having him in Houston are gone  but JR Smith made it clear he wanted out, this is what i read in an article in the Hornets forum


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## TManiAC

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> McGrady is going to get tired defending opposing 2's. He seems alot more comfortable defending the 3 spot which generally has a weaker opposition... TMac can also stay closer to the rim and contest shots/rebound (Juwan isn't going to do it). IMO Putting him at SG is going to take it's toll later in the season.
> 
> As you said, we need a reliable threat on the perimeter alongside McGrady. Someone like Redick or Mobley who make collapsing defenses on Yao think twice. Guys like Butler and Jeffries would be nice for this team off the bench, but I can't see us signing legit *SF*'s with our MLE.


McGrady may get tired of defending quicker opposing 2s but he certainly wont have a hard time finding his shot over them. 3s may be more accomodating to McGrady in terms of defense, but we all know what kind of effect this had on his offensive production as he was guarded by longer and stronger players than the traditional 2-guard. 

The fact that TMac is playing closer to the rim on defense is out of necessity and not efficiency. Who other than TMac would defend the 3 position? The stipulation that McGrady had the offensive talent to score in any position made it easier for JVG to shift TMac from his natural position at 2 to 3.

Guys like Butler and Jeffries may not be "legit" in that they are not automatic shoo-ins for the starter spot, but many will also agree that they are impactful. My suggestion was to turn to the draft for future "legit" players and turn to the Free Agent market to gain depth and to address issues that the draft cannot be relied upon to fix (i.e. three point shooting and defense).

I agree that there are alot of assumptions involved. But should Brandon Roy emerge to the player level of an early Jalen Rose and PJ Tucker emerge as a defensive stopper, it couldnt hurt to have someone as cheap as Rasual Butler or Jared Jeffries coming off the bench, right? I never suggested that Butler is the long term solution to our SF/SG problem.


----------



## hitokiri315

man tmaniac your posts are like book reports.

nutshell baby! :biggrin:


----------



## TManiAC

hitokiri315 said:


> man tmaniac your posts are like book reports.
> 
> nutshell baby! :biggrin:


Then I wouldnt be much different from ballscientist.


----------



## The_Franchise

TManiAC said:


> McGrady may get tired of defending quicker opposing 2s but he certainly wont have a hard time finding his shot over them. 3s may be more accomodating to McGrady in terms of defense, but we all know what kind of effect this had on his offensive production as he was guarded by longer and stronger players than the traditional 2-guard.
> 
> The fact that TMac is playing closer to the rim on defense is out of necessity and not efficiency. Who other than TMac would defend the 3 position? The stipulation that McGrady had the offensive talent to score in any position made it easier for JVG to shift TMac from his natural position at 2 to 3.


Possibly, but has performed better at the 3 spot in his career and it allows the Rockets to have an extra ball handler on the floor. The main concern being fatigue, so it's definitely something Houston can try sporadically. For some statistical reference, here is some data from 82games.com

*Player 48-Minute Production by Position (Orlando, 2003-04 season)*
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="620"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="80"><center>*Position*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*FGA*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*eFG%*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*FTA*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*iFG*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Reb*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Ast*</center></td> <td width="40"><center>*T/O*</center></td> <td width="40"><center>*Blk*</center></td> <td width="40"><center>*PF*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Pts*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PER**</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>PG</center></td> <td align="right">28.4 </td> <td align="right">0.438 </td> <td align="right">11.8 </td> <td align="right"> 15% </td> <td align="right"> 7.9 </td> <td align="right"> 8.8 </td> <td align="right"> 2.2 </td> <td align="right"> 0.4 </td> <td align="right"> 2.6 </td> <td align="right"> 32.8 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">23.9 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SG</center></td> <td align="right">28.2 </td> <td align="right">0.470 </td> <td align="right"> 8.7 </td> <td align="right"> 19% </td> <td align="right"> 7.1 </td> <td align="right"> 6.6 </td> <td align="right"> 3.1 </td> <td align="right"> 0.7 </td> <td align="right"> 2.2 </td> <td align="right"> 33.5 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">25.7 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SF</center></td> <td align="right">26.1 </td> <td align="right">0.554 </td> <td align="right">12.0 </td> <td align="right"> 24% </td> <td align="right"> 9.2 </td> <td align="right"> 4.8 </td> <td align="right"> 5.6 </td> <td align="right"> 1.2 </td> <td align="right"> 4.0 </td> <td align="right"> 39.3 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">30.2 </td></tr></tbody></table>

*Player 48-Minute Production by Position (2004-05 season)*
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="720"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="80"><center>*Position*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*FGA*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*eFG%*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*FTA*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*iFG*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Reb*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Ast*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*T/O*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Blk*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PF*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Pts*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PER**</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>PG</center></td> <td align="right"> 15.0 </td> <td align="right">0.000 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right"> 50% </td> <td align="right"> 7.5 </td> <td align="right"> 7.5 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00"> 0.0 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SG</center></td> <td align="right"> 22.1 </td> <td align="right">0.450 </td> <td align="right"> 8.3 </td> <td align="right"> 22% </td> <td align="right"> 7.1 </td> <td align="right"> 6.7 </td> <td align="right"> 3.0 </td> <td align="right"> 1.3 </td> <td align="right"> 2.8 </td> <td align="right"> 26.1 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">21.3 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SF</center></td> <td align="right"> 26.3 </td> <td align="right">0.486 </td> <td align="right"> 8.2 </td> <td align="right"> 23% </td> <td align="right"> 7.3 </td> <td align="right"> 6.8 </td> <td align="right"> 3.1 </td> <td align="right"> 0.6 </td> <td align="right"> 2.5 </td> <td align="right"> 32.0 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">26.1 </td></tr></tbody></table>

*Player 48-Minute Production by Position (2005-06 season)*
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="720"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="80"><center>*Position*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*FGA*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*eFG%*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*FTA*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*iFG*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Reb*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Ast*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*T/O*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Blk*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PF*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Pts*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PER**</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>PG</center></td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SG</center></td> <td align="right"> 22.7 </td> <td align="right">0.316 </td> <td align="right"> 5.7 </td> <td align="right"> 11% </td> <td align="right"> 6.7 </td> <td align="right"> 5.7 </td> <td align="right"> 3.0 </td> <td align="right"> 1.0 </td> <td align="right"> 1.3 </td> <td align="right"> 17.7 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00"> 9.0 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SF</center></td> <td align="right"> 28.0 </td> <td align="right">0.446 </td> <td align="right"> 9.8 </td> <td align="right"> 22% </td> <td align="right"> 8.7 </td> <td align="right"> 6.2 </td> <td align="right"> 3.4 </td> <td align="right"> 1.1 </td> <td align="right"> 2.6 </td> <td align="right"> 32.5 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">24.8 </td></tr></tbody></table>



> Guys like Butler and Jeffries may not be "legit" in that they are not automatic shoo-ins for the starter spot, but many will also agree that they are impactful. My suggestion was to turn to the draft for future "legit" players and turn to the Free Agent market to gain depth and to address issues that the draft cannot be relied upon to fix (i.e. three point shooting and defense).
> 
> I agree that there are alot of assumptions involved. But should Brandon Roy emerge to the player level of an early Jalen Rose and PJ Tucker emerge as a defensive stopper, it couldnt hurt to have someone as cheap as Rasual Butler or Jared Jeffries coming off the bench, right? I never suggested that Butler is the long term solution to our SF/SG problem.


Agreed.


----------



## TManiAC

Interesting statistics.

Is there any way we can get the statistics of the team when he plays in those positions?

Im sure you will agree with me that a players true value should revolve around what he does for his team. It would be interesting to see what statistical value he has to the team (instead of raw statistics) at each of those positions.

I'll admit that my ranting about McGrady being able to score easier at the SG than SF, is completely off-base. I gues this means TMac truly is prolific where ever he plays. He just made it look so much easier when playing SG.


----------



## Hakeem

TManiAC said:


> Is there any way we can get the statistics of the team when he plays in those positions?
> 
> Im sure you will agree with me that a players true value should revolve around what he does for his team. It would be interesting to see what statistical value he has to the team (instead of raw statistics) at each of those positions.


Do you mean +/- ratings? PER is a much better indicator of performance. A higher PER generally means it's better for the team (offensively).


----------



## hitokiri315

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Possibly, but has performed better at the 3 spot in his career and it allows the Rockets to have an extra ball handler on the floor. The main concern being fatigue, so it's definitely something Houston can try sporadically. For some statistical reference, here is some data from 82games.com
> 
> *Player 48-Minute Production by Position (Orlando, 2003-04 season)*
> <table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="620"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="80"><center>*Position*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*FGA*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*eFG%*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*FTA*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*iFG*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Reb*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Ast*</center></td> <td width="40"><center>*T/O*</center></td> <td width="40"><center>*Blk*</center></td> <td width="40"><center>*PF*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Pts*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PER**</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>PG</center></td> <td align="right">28.4 </td> <td align="right">0.438 </td> <td align="right">11.8 </td> <td align="right"> 15% </td> <td align="right"> 7.9 </td> <td align="right"> 8.8 </td> <td align="right"> 2.2 </td> <td align="right"> 0.4 </td> <td align="right"> 2.6 </td> <td align="right"> 32.8 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">23.9 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SG</center></td> <td align="right">28.2 </td> <td align="right">0.470 </td> <td align="right"> 8.7 </td> <td align="right"> 19% </td> <td align="right"> 7.1 </td> <td align="right"> 6.6 </td> <td align="right"> 3.1 </td> <td align="right"> 0.7 </td> <td align="right"> 2.2 </td> <td align="right"> 33.5 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">25.7 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SF</center></td> <td align="right">26.1 </td> <td align="right">0.554 </td> <td align="right">12.0 </td> <td align="right"> 24% </td> <td align="right"> 9.2 </td> <td align="right"> 4.8 </td> <td align="right"> 5.6 </td> <td align="right"> 1.2 </td> <td align="right"> 4.0 </td> <td align="right"> 39.3 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">30.2 </td></tr></tbody></table>
> 
> *Player 48-Minute Production by Position (2004-05 season)*
> <table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="720"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="80"><center>*Position*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*FGA*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*eFG%*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*FTA*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*iFG*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Reb*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Ast*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*T/O*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Blk*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PF*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Pts*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PER**</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>PG</center></td> <td align="right"> 15.0 </td> <td align="right">0.000 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right"> 50% </td> <td align="right"> 7.5 </td> <td align="right"> 7.5 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right"> 0.0 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00"> 0.0 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SG</center></td> <td align="right"> 22.1 </td> <td align="right">0.450 </td> <td align="right"> 8.3 </td> <td align="right"> 22% </td> <td align="right"> 7.1 </td> <td align="right"> 6.7 </td> <td align="right"> 3.0 </td> <td align="right"> 1.3 </td> <td align="right"> 2.8 </td> <td align="right"> 26.1 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">21.3 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SF</center></td> <td align="right"> 26.3 </td> <td align="right">0.486 </td> <td align="right"> 8.2 </td> <td align="right"> 23% </td> <td align="right"> 7.3 </td> <td align="right"> 6.8 </td> <td align="right"> 3.1 </td> <td align="right"> 0.6 </td> <td align="right"> 2.5 </td> <td align="right"> 32.0 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">26.1 </td></tr></tbody></table>
> 
> *Player 48-Minute Production by Position (2005-06 season)*
> <table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="720"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="80"><center>*Position*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*FGA*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*eFG%*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*FTA*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*iFG*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Reb*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Ast*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*T/O*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*Blk*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PF*</center></td> <td width="60"><center>*Pts*</center></td> <td width="50"><center>*PER**</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>PG</center></td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> <td>
> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SG</center></td> <td align="right"> 22.7 </td> <td align="right">0.316 </td> <td align="right"> 5.7 </td> <td align="right"> 11% </td> <td align="right"> 6.7 </td> <td align="right"> 5.7 </td> <td align="right"> 3.0 </td> <td align="right"> 1.0 </td> <td align="right"> 1.3 </td> <td align="right"> 17.7 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00"> 9.0 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center>SF</center></td> <td align="right"> 28.0 </td> <td align="right">0.446 </td> <td align="right"> 9.8 </td> <td align="right"> 22% </td> <td align="right"> 8.7 </td> <td align="right"> 6.2 </td> <td align="right"> 3.4 </td> <td align="right"> 1.1 </td> <td align="right"> 2.6 </td> <td align="right"> 32.5 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff00">24.8 </td></tr></tbody></table>
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.



I bet the ast GM (Mr. MIT) has a whole bookcase of things like this. Good stats MRC.


----------



## Yao Mania

Just an idea: think we can work out a sign-and-trade for Peja? Let's say he re-signs for 5yr/45mil, then we offer JHo, Head (gulp!) and Ryan Bowen. This is assuming that Peja now commands a 9mil/yr salary (could be more, could be less) - if he demands anymore than that then forget about it.

Thoughts?


----------



## Gotham2krazy

Yao Mania said:


> Just an idea: think we can work out a sign-and-trade for Peja? Let's say he re-signs for 5yr/45mil, then we offer JHo, Head (gulp!) and Ryan Bowen. This is assuming that Peja now commands a 9mil/yr salary (could be more, could be less) - if he demands anymore than that then forget about it.
> 
> Thoughts?


Peja's defenseless and an underachiever by my standards


----------



## debarge

Yao Mania said:


> Just an idea: think we can work out a sign-and-trade for Peja? Let's say he re-signs for 5yr/45mil, then we offer JHo, Head (gulp!) and Ryan Bowen. This is assuming that Peja now commands a 9mil/yr salary (could be more, could be less) - if he demands anymore than that then forget about it.
> 
> Thoughts?


I hate getting someone with durability issues, but then again :raised_ey this is Peja we're talking about, one of the best pure-shooters in the game? His defense isn't all that bad, but its his quickness at the 2or3 that would always concern me. You would have to have a defensive guy on your bench in case he gets into foul trouble. One that's competent enough offensively that 'he' also isn't a liability. I guess that could be Bogans???  though I really don't want him back at all...but he's just as a-ight as the scrubs mentioned in the Chron. Les is going to have to open up the wallet this summer if he wants to win... :curse: he keeps saying 'we wanna win now' but he hasn't been that open to supporting Yao/Tracy w/ good guys...evidence (Bowen, Bogans, Dke, Ward, Weatherspoon, Baker, Norris) these guys dont help you???? 

I'd rather have Al Harrington, he is younger and stronger. I'm with Jeff on getting a more off gifted 4 too. Its the matchup nightmare in the NBA right now, Rasheed Dirk Radmonivich Sam Perkins R Horry all give other teams fits defensively. We basically just need more playmakers on this team, guys who aren't totally one-Dim. and ridiculously dependent on others' play. I was watching our HOU/DAL games last night from last yr, even in that series we *needed playmakers not spot-up guys,* you can't just depend on making 3s all the time when they trip/doub your best guys.


----------



## jworth

debarge said:


> I was watching our HOU/DAL games last night from last yr, even in that series we *needed playmakers not spot-up guys,* you can't just depend on making 3s all the time when they trip/doub your best guys.


We certainly needed someone besides Yao and McGrady that could put the ball in the basket. Yao and McGrady combined for 60 of the Rockets's 76 points in that game. The next highest scorer was Wesley with seven points and Houston's bench combined for only six.


----------



## CbobbyB

jworth said:


> We certainly needed someone besides Yao and McGrady that could put the ball in the basket. *Yao and McGrady combined for 60 of the Rockets's 76 points in that game. The next highest scorer was Wesley with seven points and Houston's bench combined for only six*.


that's pretty pathetic.


----------



## jworth

CbobbyB said:


> that's pretty pathetic.


Yeah, it's atrocious.


----------



## CrackerJack

Yao Mania said:


> Just an idea: think we can work out a sign-and-trade for Peja? Let's say he re-signs for 5yr/45mil, then we offer JHo, *Head (gulp!) * and Ryan Bowen. This is assuming that Peja now commands a 9mil/yr salary (could be more, could be less) - if he demands anymore than that then forget about it.
> 
> Thoughts?


i dont even need to ask spit or swallow


----------



## Dean the Master

I dont really want Peja on my team, because he is a regular season shooter. Everytime in the post season, he got shut down. Peja doesnt create his own shots, he is a pick & roll guy, that's why he was big in sacramento couple years back. He is good on a run and gun style team, not rockets.


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## Yao Mania

CrackerJack said:


> i dont even need to ask spit or swallow


:rofl:


----------



## Gotham2krazy

Has anyone considered Alonzo Mourning? The guy's a beast, I heard he's on the market. We might need to give him a little more money than the MLE, but would he really want to play second fiddle to Shaq and UD40 when a spot for contendership and a weak slot at the 4 is open to him?


----------



## Cornholio

^I think he wants to retire in Miami.


----------



## Gotham2krazy

cornholio said:


> ^I think he wants to retire in Miami.


I don't think so, if he could've left to go to New Jersey a couple of years ago, then he could always still leave.


----------



## jworth

My question with Mourning is: can he play starter minutes for an entire season?

I have a feeling that the answer is no. If we could bring him in for cheap as a key backup at C and PF then I'd do it, but he's too old to pay more than the MLE.


----------



## Demiloy

Gotham2krazy said:


> I don't think so, if he could've left to go to New Jersey a couple of years ago, then he could always still leave.


 But Miami is where he played in his prime years. So he probably wants to finish there and get his jersey retired.


----------



## chn353

Demiloy said:


> But Miami is where he played in his prime years. So he probably wants to finish there and get his jersey retired.


exactly.. its like what cassell wants


----------



## debarge

Yao Mania said:


> Well, we've started a draft thread already, so might as well start a free agency one!
> 
> I think we all want to see *Bogans* and *Hayes* come back, so re-signing them is a given.
> 
> I hope we can finally make a run at bringing *Vassilis Spanoulis* to town.
> 
> Some posters have mentioned *Rasual Butler* as a potential pick-up, and the idea seems to be well received.
> 
> My ideas:
> *Qyntel Woods*
> Had a troubled and disappointing NBA up until joining the Knicks, where he had a chance to shine before Jalen Rose took over his starting spot. A great all around player, and very interesting to look back at his draft profile back in the days:
> http://nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm
> 
> Just imagine what he can learn playing behind Mcgrady!
> 
> *Darrell Armstrong*
> As if we need anymore old guys... but he's a true PG and can bring some leadership in the position. Will probably play as much as Rick Brunson but I wouldn't mind brining him here for mentorship purposes for the minimum.
> 
> *Jiri Welsch*
> This team can use a lil' Euro flava, and Lampe just ain't doing it. A very reliable role player that we can work into the rotation, though his season in Cleveland certainly doesn't look impressive.


Naahh man, you've picked the wrong "Q", not Woods, we need Q Richardson-a proven 3pt threat, complete player. Don't want anyone who isn't drafted, that needs to 'be taught' at this point. Our ring window is only open for a little while, and other teams are just stacking up players, while we're still searching. Only draftees/rookies and maybe 2nd yr guys need to be taught, others are just not that good period.
Darryl Armstrong would be fine if he came relatively cheap, vet's min. that's all. Cassell is gonna want too too much money, plus I think the Clippers will try to keep him.
I'm not even gonna acknowlegde that Jiri Welsch comment???
Spoluniss Yes, definitely he's just as good as anybody we'd pickup...a poor-man's Manu Ginobli.

I'd look at Brent Barry, to start at the 2, draft an athletic wingman-learn from Barry/Tracy play off the bench w/ Lu Head. 
We need Tony Battie from Orlando...he's a backup C for Yao, and a starting PF with no viable weaknesses like Juwan/Stromile. Speaking of wh/ you've got to move one of those fools? Don't know which one though frankly, neither has any upside? Neither is a legit 3rd guy def or offensively? I guess I'd keep Juwan because he will retire 'soon' and he's an intelligent player? Stromile is just worthless, we get excited when he doesn't play badly- that's not what you need for a championship run. I'd hedge my bets w/ Howard in a intense playoff situation. (As we all said last yr, if we'd had Howard for the DAL series, we win easily)
Bogans is garbage- again every 5 games he plays 'aight', that's not good enough! I'd rather have an overpaid wannabe star who can actually produce consistently. I'd take Jared Jeffries, Rasual Butler, hell I'd take Stephen Jackson whose days are now numbered in IND. You've got to look at our weaknesses now, minuses- no length or size on the perimeter, no dependable shooting on per., rebounding down low w/ Yao. If Yao had a good rebounder/defender next to him to do the 'dirty work' his blocks go up.
Hayes, yes he's my boy, but he's severely limited. He's short for a PF, not skilled enough to play SF, again he needs alot and I mean alot of work. I'd rather have him instead of Bowen, Bogans, Dke, or any other no name scrubs we've got. But like I said he doesn't really bring alot to the table? If we don't sign him, I won't be that upset, but hey I like the guy.
Bottom line- this is not a one season fix- then boom we're title contenders? It doesn't work that way, and it won't for us. We have to build the foundation this off-season getting the wingmen and shooters first, and getting rid of the garbage for capspace.


----------



## CbobbyB

debarge said:


> Naahh man, you've picked the wrong "Q", not Woods, we need Q Richardson-a proven 3pt threat, complete player. Don't want anyone who isn't drafted, that needs to 'be taught' at this point. Our ring window is only open for a little while, and other teams are just stacking up players, while we're still searching. Only draftees/rookies and maybe 2nd yr guys need to be taught, others are just not that good period.
> Darryl Armstrong would be fine if he came relatively cheap, vet's min. that's all. Cassell is gonna want too too much money, plus I think the Clippers will try to keep him.
> I'm not even gonna acknowlegde that Jiri Welsch comment???
> Spoluniss Yes, definitely he's just as good as anybody we'd pickup...a poor-man's Manu Ginobli.
> 
> I'd look at Brent Barry, to start at the 2, draft an athletic wingman-learn from Barry/Tracy play off the bench w/ Lu Head.
> We need Tony Battie from Orlando...he's a backup C for Yao, and a starting PF with no viable weaknesses like Juwan/Stromile. Speaking of wh/ you've got to move one of those fools? Don't know which one though frankly, neither has any upside? Neither is a legit 3rd guy def or offensively? I guess I'd keep Juwan because he will retire 'soon' and he's an intelligent player? Stromile is just worthless, we get excited when he doesn't play badly- that's not what you need for a championship run. I'd hedge my bets w/ Howard in a intense playoff situation. (As we all said last yr, if we'd had Howard for the DAL series, we win easily)
> Bogans is garbage- again every 5 games he plays 'aight', that's not good enough! I'd rather have an overpaid wannabe star who can actually produce consistently. I'd take Jared Jeffries, Rasual Butler, hell I'd take Stephen Jackson whose days are now numbered in IND. You've got to look at our weaknesses now, minuses- no length or size on the perimeter, no dependable shooting on per., rebounding down low w/ Yao. If Yao had a good rebounder/defender next to him to do the 'dirty work' his blocks go up.
> Hayes, yes he's my boy, but he's severely limited. He's short for a PF, not skilled enough to play SF, again he needs alot and I mean alot of work. I'd rather have him instead of Bowen, Bogans, Dke, or any other no name scrubs we've got. But like I said he doesn't really bring alot to the table? If we don't sign him, I won't be that upset, but hey I like the guy.
> Bottom line- this is not a one season fix- then boom we're title contenders? It doesn't work that way, and it won't for us. We have to build the foundation this off-season getting the wingmen and shooters first, and getting rid of the garbage for capspace.


hmm..Q Richardson....very intriguing


----------



## Yao Mania

debarge said:


> Naahh man, you've picked the wrong "Q", not Woods, we need Q Richardson-a proven 3pt threat, complete player. Don't want anyone who isn't drafted, that needs to 'be taught' at this point. Our ring window is only open for a little while, and other teams are just stacking up players, while we're still searching. Only draftees/rookies and maybe 2nd yr guys need to be taught, others are just not that good period.


QRich? I don't know if I want a guy who chucks up 10 3pters every game... I can't stand guys who take TOO many 3 balls like QRich and Damon Jones. And its not like there's all that consistent either.


----------



## Hakeem

He made a huge number of threes with the Suns on fair efficiency, so he's certainly capable. But he's just come off an atrocious season. Could be because of the death of his brother and all. Or it could just be that the Suns made him look good and the Knicks exposed him. One thing I can say is that his defense improved under Larry Brown. JVG could have the same effect.

Btw, I have no idea how feasible this is, as I know nothing about his contract.


----------



## CrackerJack

Hakeem said:


> *He made a huge number of threes with the Suns on fair efficiency*, so he's certainly capable. But he's just come off an atrocious season. Could be because of the death of his brother and all. Or it could just be that the Suns made him look good and the Knicks exposed him. One thing I can say is that his defense improved under Larry Brown. JVG could have the same effect.
> 
> Btw, I have no idea how feasible this is, as I know nothing about his contract.


mostly wide open due to steve nash's penetration with the D collapsing on him the hed kick it out to a *WIDE WIDE WIDE  * open Q-Rich, but with rafer not alot of that will happen


----------



## Demiloy

Hakeem said:


> He made a huge number of threes with the Suns on fair efficiency, so he's certainly capable. But he's just come off an atrocious season. Could be because of the death of his brother and all. Or it could just be that the Suns made him look good and the Knicks exposed him. One thing I can say is that his defense improved under Larry Brown. JVG could have the same effect.
> 
> Btw, I have no idea how feasible this is, as I know nothing about his contract.


 The Rockets and the Suns are polar opposites. If he did come to us, how would he adjust. If the Knicks made him look bad, how would be look with us?


----------



## Yao Mania

Demiloy said:


> The Rockets and the Suns are polar opposites. If he did come to us, how would he adjust. If the Knicks made him look bad, how would be look with us?


Actually, Knicks make everyone look bad


----------



## Demiloy

Yao Mania said:


> Actually, Knicks make everyone look bad


 That's because they're all bad in the first place.

Anyway, the point stands- He did really well with the Suns, but the Rockets are just the total opposite. Totally, totally different. Could he handle it?


----------



## Pasha The Great

I think he can.


----------



## reno2000

Q rich would be a disaster in houston, unless the learnt how to post up like his clipper days. he is a streaky 3pt shooter and as everyone has already pointed out, he only had good efficiency because nash was gettin him open looks.

jared jefferies would be a decent pick-up...he would definately create some match up problems, could defend 4 positions (all but PG) and give some size to our team. he doesnt seem like much of a 3pt threat thou, so i would rather go with butler.

Was just wondering what you guys thought about acquiring reggie evans with the mid level...he is really impressing at denver...averaging about 7.5 boards in 25mins i think. would he be worth the MLE and is he a long-term solution at the 4 spot?


----------



## debarge

Was just wondering what you guys thought about acquiring reggie evans with the mid level...he is really impressing at denver...averaging about 7.5 boards in 25mins i think. would he be worth the MLE and is he a long-term solution at the 4 spot?[/QUOTE]

I'd rather not have a guy who likes to grab nuts on our team. :raised_ey What if he had an arguement with Yao Ming during practice? "DOWN GOES FRAZIER, DOWN GOES FRAZIER" 

"_The Houston Chronicle reports that Rockets center Yao Ming will need season-ending testicle surgery due to an altercation in practice w/ forward Reggie Evans_..."
I don't wanna even think of that nut-grinder on our team, If anything I'd take Elson from Denver for Stromile, maybe they want a leaper since KMart is severely declining? Nobody else mention Greg Buckner, I'd rather just have Bogans...lets try to get someone whose an upgrade there.

What about Gerald Wallace? Maybe, Steven Jackson or Fred Jones from IND, man I guess we should've thought about getting in on that Griz/Heat deal last yr, picked up Eddie Jones?


----------



## jworth

debarge said:


> I'd rather not have a guy who likes to grab nuts on our team. :raised_ey What if he had an arguement with Yao Ming during practice? "DOWN GOES FRAZIER, DOWN GOES FRAZIER"
> 
> "_The Houston Chronicle reports that Rockets center Yao Ming will need season-ending testicle surgery due to an altercation in practice w/ forward Reggie Evans_..."
> I don't wanna even think of that nut-grinder on our team,


 :rotf: 

I'd love to have Reggie Evans in Houston holding the paint down with Yao, but at the same time I see a lot of Reggie Evans in Chuck Hayes. Chuck is a short PF who can pull down boards at a very high clip whenever he's given playing time, so I really think we should look for a taller and longer big man with some offensive versatility (not another Swift, though). 

Gerald Wallace would be worth trading our first round pick for, especially since drafting Brandon Roy will take a lot of luck. Stephen Jackson would be great but I don't know how we could acquire him. Fred Jones wouldn't be a bad pickup since it would give us some much-needed athleticism on the perimeter, but out of all those guys, Wallace impresses me the most.


----------



## edwardcyh

Wow! From the sound of it, most people still have plenty of faith in Swift. I thought he should have performed better this year....

I guess it's just me.


----------



## Pimped Out

reno2000 said:


> Q rich would be a disaster in houston, unless the learnt how to post up like his clipper days. he is a streaky 3pt shooter and as everyone has already pointed out, he only had good efficiency because nash was gettin him open looks.
> 
> jared jefferies would be a decent pick-up...he would definately create some match up problems, could defend 4 positions (all but PG) and give some size to our team. he doesnt seem like much of a 3pt threat thou, so i would rather go with butler.
> 
> Was just wondering what you guys thought about acquiring reggie evans with the mid level...he is really impressing at denver...averaging about 7.5 boards in 25mins i think. would he be worth the MLE and is he a long-term solution at the 4 spot?


I like the idea of signing caron, but i dont really see that happening.


----------



## jworth

edwardcyh said:


> Wow! From the sound of it, most people still have plenty of faith in Swift. I thought he should have performed better this year....
> 
> I guess it's just me.


I think everybody here would rather have him gone.


----------



## edwardcyh

debarge said:


> Naahh man, you've picked the wrong "Q", not Woods, we need Q Richardson-a proven 3pt threat, complete player. Don't want anyone who isn't drafted, that needs to 'be taught' at this point. Our ring window is only open for a little while, and other teams are just stacking up players, while we're still searching. Only draftees/rookies and maybe 2nd yr guys need to be taught, others are just not that good period.
> Darryl Armstrong would be fine if he came relatively cheap, vet's min. that's all. Cassell is gonna want too too much money, plus I think the Clippers will try to keep him.
> I'm not even gonna acknowlegde that Jiri Welsch comment???
> Spoluniss Yes, definitely he's just as good as anybody we'd pickup...a poor-man's Manu Ginobli.
> 
> I'd look at Brent Barry, to start at the 2, draft an athletic wingman-learn from Barry/Tracy play off the bench w/ Lu Head.
> We need Tony Battie from Orlando...he's a backup C for Yao, and a starting PF with no viable weaknesses like Juwan/Stromile. Speaking of wh/ you've got to move one of those fools? Don't know which one though frankly, neither has any upside? Neither is a legit 3rd guy def or offensively? I guess I'd keep Juwan because he will retire 'soon' and he's an intelligent player? Stromile is just worthless, we get excited when he doesn't play badly- that's not what you need for a championship run. I'd hedge my bets w/ Howard in a intense playoff situation. (As we all said last yr, if we'd had Howard for the DAL series, we win easily)
> Bogans is garbage- again every 5 games he plays 'aight', that's not good enough! I'd rather have an overpaid wannabe star who can actually produce consistently. I'd take Jared Jeffries, Rasual Butler, hell I'd take Stephen Jackson whose days are now numbered in IND. You've got to look at our weaknesses now, minuses- no length or size on the perimeter, no dependable shooting on per., rebounding down low w/ Yao. If Yao had a good rebounder/defender next to him to do the 'dirty work' his blocks go up.
> Hayes, yes he's my boy, but he's severely limited. He's short for a PF, not skilled enough to play SF, again he needs alot and I mean alot of work. I'd rather have him instead of Bowen, Bogans, Dke, or any other no name scrubs we've got. But like I said he doesn't really bring alot to the table? If we don't sign him, I won't be that upset, but hey I like the guy.
> Bottom line- this is not a one season fix- then boom we're title contenders? It doesn't work that way, and it won't for us. We have to build the foundation this off-season getting the wingmen and shooters first, and getting rid of the garbage for capspace.


Well said!


----------



## edwardcyh

jworth said:


> I think everybody here would rather have him gone.


That's what I was expecting but then I saw too many posts with him backing up Yao.

Rockets would be better off without him. He was full of promises and no delivery.


----------



## jworth

edwardcyh said:


> That's what I was expecting but then I saw too many posts with him backing up Yao.
> 
> Rockets would be better off without him. He was full of promises and no delivery.


Yeah, he was certainly a letdown this season. Everybody thought (hoped) he would finally reach his potential and leave the soft work ethic behind, but all his words last offseason were fake. Houston fans were made to believe that he would become a star, but that obviously didn't happen.

Most people have him backing up Yao next season because we don't really have any better options to go with right now. Our need for better perimeter players is even bigger than adding interior help, and the Rockets don't really have money to make a big improvement in both areas.


----------



## edwardcyh

jworth said:


> Yeah, he was certainly a letdown this season. Everybody thought (hoped) he would finally reach his potential and leave the soft work ethic behind, but all his words last offseason were fake. Houston fans were made to believe that he would become a star, but that obviously didn't happen.
> 
> Most people have him backing up Yao next season because we don't really have any better options to go with right now. Our need for better perimeter players is even bigger than adding interior help, and the Rockets don't really have money to make a big improvement in both areas.


Maybe what you need is a DeSaganna Diop type player to motivate the bum. I think Dallas is paying $2M/year for Diop, but he's certainly made Dampier ($7.66M/year) better. Swift will be paid $5.4M next year, and I think he deserved maybe $1.3M as a bench player.

Mutombo ($2.2M next year) is enough of a back up for Yao because Yao is one tough mofo...

:cheers:


----------



## jworth

edwardcyh said:


> Maybe what you need is a DeSaganna Diop type player to motivate the bum. I think Dallas is paying $2M/year for Diop, but he's certainly made Dampier ($7.66M/year) better. Swift will be paid $5.4M next year, and I think he deserved maybe $1.3M as a bench player.
> 
> Mutombo ($2.2M next year) is enough of a back up for Yao *because Yao is one tough mofo...*
> 
> :cheers:


Yao grew some toughness this past season, and hopefully he'll get a summer off and be fully rested once next season comes around.

Diop would be perfect for us.


----------



## CbobbyB

mutombo is old. he needs to retire.


----------



## edwardcyh

If I am not mistaken, D.J. Mbenga is on the last year of his contract.....

He would be an awesome pick up for the Rockets.


----------



## Demiloy

CbobbyB said:


> mutombo is old. he needs to retire.


 Last season, he really played as well you can playing only 15 a game. But this season, he really hasn't been as good as lasat season. Rebounds, blocks, points (which wasn't a lot in the first place) have all gone down.


----------



## Hakeem

CrackerJack said:


> mostly wide open due to steve nash's penetration with the D collapsing on him the hed kick it out to a WIDE WIDE WIDE open Q-Rich, but with rafer not alot of that will happen


It will with Yao and T-Mac. There will be an abundance of open shots.

Btw, I watched a decent number of Knicks games this season, and I absolutely hated Richardson. He was one of the only passable defenders on the team, so he got minutes, but he was pretty much garbage on the other end. I hope it was just a mental thing.


----------



## jdiggidy

> Btw, I watched a decent number of Knicks games this season, and I absolutely hated Richardson. He was one of the only passable defenders on the team, so he got minutes, but he was pretty much garbage on the other end. I hope it was just a mental thing.


Remember, some really solid players play bad when traded to bad teams.

QRich stunk in NYC. He played well in Phoenix.
Tim Thomas was not used at all in Chicago or Philly. He is a stud in Phoenix.
Ruben Patterson didn't play well in Portland as thing got bad. He played well in Denver this year.

I would take any of those guys in Houston if they were available.

As far as Stromile is concerned, JVG is not a teaching coach. If Jerry West was willing to part with Stro you would have to ask yourself the question of why? OK, Gasol is way better than Stro but, is Lorenzen Wright better? The answer is YES. If someone is willing to trade for Stro, the Rockets should do it. His Basketball IQ is just to low.

NEEDS: 
1. Backup Center to Yao (Tony Battie)
2. Starting PF with JHo as backup (Reggie Evan KMart)
3. Any starting PG with Rafer as the backup. (Andre Miller, Sam Cassell)
4. Bench/Role Players (Qyntel Woods, Rasual Butler, Brent Barry, Fred Jones)

Sorry guys, this is just a rant. I'm all over the place. To sum it up in a nutshell, we need all new players except for Yao and TMac. If this means trading away our draft picks and current players then so be it.


----------



## jworth

jdiggidy said:


> Remember, some really solid players play bad when traded to bad teams.
> 
> QRich stunk in NYC. He played well in Phoenix.
> Tim Thomas was not used at all in Chicago or Philly. He is a stud in Phoenix.
> Ruben Patterson didn't play well in Portland as thing got bad. He played well in Denver this year.
> 
> I would take any of those guys in Houston if they were available.
> 
> As far as Stromile is concerned, JVG is not a teaching coach. If Jerry West was willing to part with Stro you would have to ask yourself the question of why? OK, Gasol is way better than Stro but, is Lorenzen Wright better? The answer is YES. If someone is willing to trade for Stro, the Rockets should do it. His Basketball IQ is just to low.
> 
> NEEDS:
> 1. Backup Center to Yao (Tony Battie)
> 2. Starting PF with JHo as backup (Reggie Evan KMart)
> 3. Any starting PG with Rafer as the backup. (Andre Miller, Sam Cassell)
> 4. Bench/Role Players (Qyntel Woods, Rasual Butler, Brent Barry, Fred Jones)
> 
> *Sorry guys, this is just a rant. I'm all over the place. To sum it up in a nutshell, we need all new players except for Yao and TMac. If this means trading away our draft picks and current players then so be it*.


Must say that I agree.


----------



## Yao Mania

edwardcyh said:


> If I am not mistaken, D.J. Mbenga is on the last year of his contract.....
> 
> He would be an awesome pick up for the Rockets.


Aren't you a Mavs fan? Do you know something we don't know about him??


----------



## Yao Mania

Check this out:

http://www.nj.com/nets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1146810309102520.xml&coll=1&thispage=2



> <b>Stephen Jackson said he won't mind if he's gone next season</b>, and seemed to think the Pacers fans don't want him back, either.
> 
> "I don't need to be here as much as I get booed when I check in the game," he said. "It doesn't matter to me though. As long as I'm playing basketball and providing for my family and friends I'm cool. I won't be upset if I'm not here. I won't be happy if I leave. It's not my decision."


He would be a GREAT fit for us. Think we can get him for Juwan + our 32nd pick??


----------



## jworth

Yao Mania said:


> He would be a GREAT fit for us. Think we can get him for Juwan + our 32nd pick??


There's no question I would do that if the Pacers would take it. Heck, as weak as this year's draft is, I might would even trade both of our picks for Jackson. I would certainly trade our lottery pick for him. I'm sure he'd love to play in Houston since his hometown of Port Arthur is just an hour and 1/2 down the road. He'd give us everything we need in a perimeter player: consistent double figure scorer, good slasher, good shooter, good defender, and athletic. He would be a perfect fit alongside McGrady.


----------



## CbobbyB

jworth said:


> There's no question I would do that if the Pacers would take it. Heck, as weak as this year's draft is, I might would even trade both of our picks for Jackson. I would certainly trade our lottery pick for him. I'm sure he'd love to play in Houston since his hometown of Port Arthur is just an hour and 1/2 down the road. He'd give us everything we need in a perimeter player: consistent double figure scorer, good slasher, good shooter, good defender, and athletic. He would be a perfect fit alongside McGrady.


damn i 4got about him..somebody on here needs to send JVG an email or something..throw some ideas at him such as the one above..


----------



## edwardcyh

Yao Mania said:


> Aren't you a Mavs fan? Do you know something we don't know about him??


Mbenga hasn't been getting much playing time here at all, but, when he plays, he brings crowd to life. AJ hasn't played him much because of experience. AJ loves experience, and that's why Stackhouse will continue to be valued on the Mavericks team. D Armstrong is another old timer who's getting ready to leave Dallas after the season, except he's already made it fairly clear that he would like to finish his career in Orlando, his home town.

Only if you lived in Dallas and are exposed to the media here would you know what kind of energy and hype surrounds Mbenga. The announcers and crowd chanting "D... J... Mbenga.... D... J... Mbenga" is quite exciting. He has the necessary size and good penetration in the paint.

It would be completely understandable for Mbenga wanting to leave because he's simply too far down the bench. It would be a big loss for Dallas and a nice pick-up for anybody.

:cheers:


----------



## jworth

edwardcyh said:


> Mbenga hasn't been getting much playing time here at all, but, when he plays, he brings crowd to life. AJ hasn't played him much because of experience. AJ loves experience, and that's why Stackhouse will continue to be valued on the Mavericks team. D Armstrong is another old timer who's getting ready to leave Dallas after the season, except he's already made it fairly clear that he would like to finish his career in Orlando, his home town.
> 
> Only if you lived in Dallas and are exposed to the media here would you know what kind of energy and hype surrounds Mbenga. The announcers and crowd chanting "D... J... Mbenga.... D... J... Mbenga" is quite exciting. He has the necessary size and good penetration in the paint.
> 
> It would be completely understandable for Mbenga wanting to leave because he's simply too far down the bench. It would be a big loss for Dallas and a nice pick-up for anybody.
> 
> :cheers:


But how good is he on the court?


----------



## edwardcyh

jworth said:


> But how good is he on the court?


I have to say that the only time he played this year are 'junk time." Basically, he was only a warm body on the court until the game clock runs out. You can't tell much from those minutes because his surrounding players are all 8th-13th on the bench. The only way to tell is by giving him more playing time with some starters.

He'll need some more work, and learning under Yao would do him a lot of good. Here in Dallas, there is not really any experienced big bodies for him to learn from. I suppose there is Erick Dampier, but..... (enough said)

Yao's the type of player who's willing to train and help his teammates. That's why he spends so much time overseas to play and train Chinese teams in verious competition and Olympics. Give him a Mbenga, and they can split playing time 36min / 12min, and you don't have anything to worry about in the center position. Unless injuries kicks in.....

I think a nice little $2M/year would be enough for Mbenga to make the move. Sign him for 5 years worth around $12M, and he will be way better than Kwame Brown in couple years, and by then you will only be paying $2.2M - $2.5M a year.

If you want some instant success formula, then they come with hefty price tags.


----------



## Pimped Out

i really want caron butler on this team next year. he would provide so much of what we need.


----------



## CbobbyB

I Start Fires said:


> i really want caron butler on this team next year. he would provide so much of what we need.


yea i was thinkin the same.

chris duhon would probally do a decent job here.


----------



## Gotham2krazy

debarge said:


> Was just wondering what you guys thought about acquiring reggie evans with the mid level...he is really impressing at denver...averaging about 7.5 boards in 25mins i think. would he be worth the MLE and is he a long-term solution at the 4 spot?


ok, I really like Reggie Evans, but I just think that a rebounder is not what we're missing right now. Because if you want to talk in terms of rebounding numbers Chuck Hayes grabs 16.3 rebounds per 48 minutes. And then what? I think our biggest hole is in that two spot, that shooting threat, but that by no means am I saying I'm a supporter of JJ Reddick


----------



## CbobbyB

What about Jared Jefferies?? He'll be available after this season....i dont know how he would do i houston though.


----------



## reno2000

Gotham2krazy said:


> ok, I really like Reggie Evans, but I just think that a rebounder is not what we're missing right now. Because if you want to talk in terms of rebounding numbers Chuck Hayes grabs 16.3 rebounds per 48 minutes. And then what? I think our biggest hole is in that two spot, that shooting threat, but that by no means am I saying I'm a supporter of JJ Reddick


per 48min stats dont mean all that much because output is not constant...its impossible to play 48mins at the same high level...but in evans he played decent minutes 25+ and pulled down some decent boards...i dont think he will be coming here to play much more than 30 a game, so the 7.5reb in 25mins is a decent estimation of what he might get if he played for the rockets.

also, i dont see hayes as a starter. i think we overate him a bit too much. its not like he has the skill set of shawn marion, or charles barkley. at max he is a 10-15min player on a contender, which is wat we want to be.

the two spot we can fill this off-season i think...it might take a bit of wheeling and dealing, but if JVG and CD are really set on being a contender, then they will find a way. it would be great if we could get caron butler, but i doubt wizards are letting him go. the same goes with mobley...stephen jackson would be a nice pick up if pacers are truly wanting to offload him.

we will probably get a better insight into wat management wants to do as the draft approaches.

P.S -someone really needs to email JVG all these ideas, any one of them would improve our team.


----------



## jworth

CbobbyB said:


> What about Jared Jefferies?? He'll be available after this season....i dont know how he would do i houston though.


He's better than what we got but we really need someone with more perimeter ability and athliticism.


----------



## rocketeer

jworth said:


> He's better than what we got but we really need someone with more perimeter ability and athliticism.


he helps our defense, but doesn't do anything more on offense. van gundy probably would like him, but i would rather get a player that can do more on the offensive end.


----------



## Dean the Master

I like the Idea of getting Stephen Jackson here.
He is a great defender. If he is here, we can trade/drop lots of people out, i.e. Sura, Bogans, basicly every guards, except Alston. 
I also like people trying to get Rashard Lewis here, I heard he really want to play in Houston, and want to be out of Seattle. 
With some starting line up like this:
Yao, T-Mac, R.Lewis, S.Jackson, Alston. 
It's pretty scary, Plus we have L.Head, Lottery Pick, Spanoulis (maybe) S.Swift on the bench. 
there is reallly lots of thing we can do. 
(T-Mac can play 4, really)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...4~469~378&teams=11~25~25~11~11~25~11~25~10~10
Just put in random trade, you get the idea.


----------



## Dean the Master

Forgot to give my potential line up
Alston/Spanoulis/Head
Jackson/Head/Spanoulis
Lewis/McGrady/Jackson/Hayes
McGrady/Howard/Swift/Hayes/Draft
Yao/Swift/Draft
I think the team is really balanced, no one needs ball to run. We will be heck of a team.
Trade away draft is okay. 
We dont have really old people and injuried people here on the team, (Except T-Mac, but he is the core, so...)
I know this is not playing NBA live or the 2k series
but this would be the dream team (and obtainable) for us to have.


----------



## TManiAC

Were not going to get those players with garbage. 

Plus I dont know that Jackson would be very helpful in terms of chemistry. Although he would be a good addition in terms of player ability.

Trade Idea:

Houston Trades: Luther Head, Juwan Howard
Houston Receives: Mike Miller, Charlie Bell

Memphis Trades: Mike Miller, Memphis 1st Rounder
Memphis Receives: Jamaal Magloire

Memphis Trades: Charlie Bell, Jamaal Magloire
Memphis Trades: Luther Head, Juwan Howard, Memphis 1st Rounder

Houston Drafts Shelden Williams and Daniel Gibson 
Houston Signs Francisco Elson, Spanoulis, Rasual Butler
Houston Re-signs Keith Bogans and Chuck Hayes

PG: Rafer Alston | Vassili Spanoulis | Daniel Gibson
SG: Mike Miller | Keith Bogans | Charlie Bell
SF: Tracy McGrady | Rasual Butler | Ryan Bowen
PF: Shelden Williams | Stromile Swift | Chuck Hayes
CN: Yao Ming | Francisco Elson | Mutombo Dikembe


----------



## CrackerJack

deanchueng said:


> Forgot to give my potential line up
> Alston/Spanoulis/Head
> Jackson/Head/Spanoulis
> Lewis/McGrady/Jackson/Hayes
> McGrady/Howard/Swift/Hayes/Draft
> Yao/Swift/Draft
> I think the team is really balanced, no one needs ball to run. We will be heck of a team.
> Trade away draft is okay.
> We dont have really old people and injuried people here on the team, (Except T-Mac, but he is the core, so...)
> I know this is not playing NBA live or the 2k series
> but this would be the dream team (and obtainable) for us to have.


will T-Mac consistantly be able to match up against some of the bigger and stronger 4's like Jermaine O'Neal, KG, Tim Duncan?


----------



## rocketeer

CrackerJack said:


> will T-Mac consistantly be able to match up against some of the bigger and stronger 4's like Jermaine O'Neal, KG, Tim Duncan?


i don't know how we could get jackson and lewis, but if we did, jackson is 6'8 and lewis 6'10. that lineup would definitely struggle guarding the real star pfs in the league, but the mismatch would exist on the other side of the court too. and that lineup would have a lot of height and length.


----------



## reno2000

i dont know about tmac playing the 4...he is skinny at the 3 as it is...imagine him trying to guard a duncan, or brand...i dont see it.

as for TManiAC's proposal, that is one of the most realistic off-seasons that anyone has put forward. only problem i see is that our perimeter defence would be a bit suspect, as neither alston, or miller are good defenders...and im not too sure about any of the back-ups. 

we would have plenty of scoring options, a good inside defence with yao and sheldon and hopefully between the three PGs good playmaking.


----------



## TManiAC

reno2000 said:


> i dont know about tmac playing the 4...he is skinny at the 3 as it is...imagine him trying to guard a duncan, or brand...i dont see it.
> 
> as for TManiAC's proposal, that is one of the most realistic off-seasons that anyone has put forward. *only problem i see is that our perimeter defence would be a bit suspect, as neither alston, or miller are good defenders*...and im not too sure about any of the back-ups.
> 
> we would have plenty of scoring options, a good inside defence with yao and sheldon and hopefully between the three PGs good playmaking.



Between Charlie Bell, Keith Bogans and Rasual Butler, we shouldn't be any worse than we are now in terms of perimeter defense but we would be considerably better offensively. Charlie Bell is every bit of good defender as Luther Head in a 6'6 frame and may be a better shooter than Head as well. Bogans is as good an on-the-ball defender as Wesley but Wesley has the edge because of his veteran experience. We still have a problem with defending the point. Maybe instead of Chuck Hayes we could sign on Lindsey Hunter and use the 2nd Rounder to pick up Marco Killingsworth or Paul Davis.

PG: Rafer Alston | Lindsey Hunter | Vassili Spanoulis
SG: Mike Miller | Keith Bogans | Charlie Bell
SF: Tracy McGrady | Rasual Butler | Ryan Bowen
PF: Shelden Williams | Stromile Swift | Marco Killingsworth
CN: Yao Ming | Francisco Elson | Mutombo Dikembe


----------



## CrackerJack

TManiAC said:


> Between Charlie Bell, Keith Bogans and Rasual Butler, we shouldn't be any worse than we are now in terms of perimeter defense but we would be considerably better offensively. Charlie Bell is every bit of good defender as Luther Head in a 6'6 frame and may be a better shooter than Head as well. Bogans is as good an on-the-ball defender as Wesley but Wesley has the edge because of his veteran experience. We still have a problem with defending the point. Maybe instead of Chuck Hayes we could sign on Lindsey Hunter and use the 2nd Rounder to pick up Marco Killingsworth or Paul Davis.
> 
> PG: Rafer Alston | Lindsey Hunter | Vassili Spanoulis
> SG: Mike Miller | Keith Bogans | Charlie Bell
> SF: Tracy McGrady | Rasual Butler | Ryan Bowen
> PF: Shelden Williams | Stromile Swift | Marco Killingsworth
> CN: Yao Ming | Francisco Elson | Mutombo Dikembe


how could you consider not re-signing Chuck Hayes he was one of our only broght spots for the entire year and we want to get youth so bringing in Hunter may not be a great idea


----------



## pmac34

TManiAC said:


> Between Charlie Bell, Keith Bogans and Rasual Butler, we shouldn't be any worse than we are now in terms of perimeter defense but we would be considerably better offensively. Charlie Bell is every bit of good defender as Luther Head in a 6'6 frame and may be a better shooter than Head as well. Bogans is as good an on-the-ball defender as Wesley but Wesley has the edge because of his veteran experience. We still have a problem with defending the point. Maybe instead of Chuck Hayes we could sign on Lindsey Hunter and use the 2nd Rounder to pick up Marco Killingsworth or Paul Davis.
> 
> PG: Rafer Alston | Lindsey Hunter | Vassili Spanoulis
> SG: Mike Miller | Keith Bogans | Charlie Bell
> SF: Tracy McGrady | Rasual Butler | Ryan Bowen
> PF: Shelden Williams | Stromile Swift | Marco Killingsworth
> CN: Yao Ming | Francisco Elson | Mutombo Dikembe


Elson > Deke!?!??!!?!!!!!!!1!!!!!11
I like that line up... its ... eeeevillll... muauahahhahahahahahahhahauhauahuahauahuauhhhh


----------



## TManiAC

CrackerJack said:


> how could you consider not re-signing Chuck Hayes he was one of our only broght spots for the entire year and we want to get youth so bringing in Hunter may not be a great idea


Normally, I wouldnt. But considering that Shelden and Stro would hold the spot down fine... and not to mention a second rounder could be used to further pad the PF spot, I would rather pick up a defensive minded PG to help coach Rafer and Spanoulis.

Chuck wouldnt get much of the same opportunity with a healthy team and hes a third stringer at best behind Juwan and Stro playing.

As for Elson > Mutombo... not last year, but this year and next year, yeah I would definitely play Elson more minutes. Elson is faster and quicker than Mutombo and can play more minutes. Besides, Elson and Deke would only get 14-16 between the two since Yao is anchoring the C spot. Elson would be a great protege to Mutombo, we need to pick up a C than can train under Deke and do much of the same things Deke did but not have an arthritic attack while doing it.


----------



## CrackerJack

i would seriously play chuck over stro, he just has the energy and mindset we need and if he can learn to hit the mid-range jumper he would be an awesome back-up or a lesser version of sir charles. so we can use our first pick to improve our back-court and our 2nd rounder to consolidate the front line.


----------



## TManiAC

CrackerJack said:


> i would seriously play chuck over stro, he just has the energy and mindset we need and if he can learn to hit the mid-range jumper he would be an awesome back-up or a lesser version of sir charles. so we can use our first pick to improve our back-court and our 2nd rounder to consolidate the front line.



I wouldnt. Our perimeter defense is very poor and routinely gets beat. The only thing we can rely on is funnelling perimeter players into the post to Yao or Stro for the help defense. Chuck Hayes wont change many shots in the post, Stro will. Shedlen Williams and Stro should hold down the PF spot fine.

Also, our offense relies heavily on the pick and roll as well as rangy shooting from the PF. Hayes offers none of the above. I commend his rebounding and energy, sure, I would love to have him on the team again and that would be my first choice. But I cant imagine playing him ahead of Stromile (despite Stro's poor BBall IQ) and I wouldnt cry if I had to sacrifice his minimum to sign a player like Lindsey Hunter or Darrell Armstrong who work equally hard as Hayes.


----------



## Cornholio

It would be better to just waive Bowen, resign Hayes and sign Hunter or Armstrong.


----------



## TManiAC

cornholio said:


> It would be better to just waive Bowen, resign Hayes and sign Hunter or Armstrong.



Anyone know how many minimums a team is allowed?


----------



## Gotham2krazy

jworth said:


> He's better than what we got but we really need someone with more perimeter ability and athliticism.


Dude, he's 6'10" and played the 2 with the Wizards.


----------



## Gotham2krazy

My Ideal Starting lineup would go like this:

PG: Rafer Alston/ Luther Head/ Bobby Sura
SG: Brandon Roy/ Keith Bogans/ 
SF: Tracy McGrady/ Rasual Butler/
PF: Chuck Hayes/ Juwan Howard/ Stromile Swift/ Maciej Lampe/ Ryan Bowan
C : Ming Yao/ Dikembe Mutombo/ D.J. Mbenga

_____________________________________________________

Honestly, has anyone considered who we might pick with our second rounder? I really hope that Chuck is working on his game right now. He needs to be get a jumpshot from 10-18 feet, it would be great if he could even go to 21 feet and if he did that, I'd think his place on the team would be solid.


----------



## Cornholio

Gotham2krazy said:


> My Ideal Starting lineup would go like this:
> 
> PG: Rafer Alston/ Luther Head/ Bobby Sura
> SG: Brandon Roy/ Keith Bogans/
> SF: Tracy McGrady/ Rasual Butler/
> PF: Chuck Hayes/ Stromile Swift/ Maciej Lampe/ Ryan Bowan
> C : Ming Yao/ Dikembe Mutombo/ D.J. Mbenga


What did you do with Howard??. And that PF rotation = uke:


----------



## reno2000

honestly IMO, ur starting line-up doesnt look much better than this years line-up. basically, you've got wesley out butler in...and howard out, lampe in. thats ok if we want to make the playoffs, but not if we want to be a contender, unless this leads to some serious moves next offseason.

our 2nd round pick should depend on what we get with the first, if we draft sheldon or another big in the 1st, then look for a good perimeter spark player like hasan adams in the 2nd. if we get brandon roy or an outside player, then get a big like killingsworth. this draft is gonna be hard to predict, because there are no superstars, and the "talent" seems to be evenly distributed.


----------



## Gotham2krazy

cornholio said:


> What did you do with Howard??. And that PF rotation = uke:


right now, i think that right now howard is equal to stromile, neither make any difference, the only thin howard has on stromile is a jumpshot. as for reno, all i ever said was our inconsistency was the 2, i never complained about anything else because I thought Hayes was good enough for our team already. basically bringing in a better backup for the 2 and 3 that could shoot beyond the arc, which is rasual and another big center in D.J. Mbenga.


----------



## jworth

Gotham2krazy said:
 

> Dude, he's 6'10" and played the 2 with the Wizards.


He can't handle the ball or score off the dribble like a SG and he never had to do those things with Arenas, Butler, and Daniels on the Wizards. We need somebody with playmaking ability and Jefferies doesn't have that. He'd help us in other areas, though, if we could bring in somebody else as well to help us with the perimeter play.


----------



## Gotham2krazy

jworth said:


> He can't handle the ball or score off the dribble like a SG and he never had to do those things with Arenas, Butler, and Daniels on the Wizards. We need somebody with playmaking ability and Jefferies doesn't have that. He'd help us in other areas, though, if we could bring in somebody else as well to help us with the perimeter play.


Brandon.


----------



## Demiloy

> right now, i think that right now howard is equal to stromile, neither make any difference, the only thin howard has on stromile is a jumpshot.


Wrong. Stromile's basketball IQ is just not there at all. Howard is not a shotblocker, but at least he doesn't go for every single fake. Howard is still better than Stromile.


----------



## debarge

Rashard Lewis are you guys for real? You think SEA is going to let him go for for flying Ryan Bowen and Stromile? I doubt it...

Jared Jeffries could play the 4, if you acquire Tony Battie or Fransico Elson to give you a different look defensively against star 4s. The Roc's are very limited and weak def/off at the 4? Howard would be great for a backup 4, at this point he's _not_ a starter...I like Battie or Elson for the total skills they'd bring, the tuffness-rebounding-viable off game lining up next to Yao. I think DEN will be looking to move some money so maybe they'd move Elson. Joel Prizbills is also a FA so we could go def and us another twin towers scenario. The Blazers are gonna try to trade for KMart w/ Zach Randolph both make 12mil. Maybe they'd trade for Stro, lets hope we get Elson. I'd like us to be a really good defensive team like the Pistons or Spurs.

Draft a wingman for god's sake! Bring over Spalounis, try getting Brent Barry to start the year. If the draftee ends up playing like Danny Granger or McCants, then move him into the starting lineup. You have to have a team w/ options, right now we can only play ride the star mode. Ride Yao or Tracy til they just can't pull us anymore. That's not what great teams do all season. When we won our titles we had great teams. No not everyone was a household name, but the guys did their jobs well. Otis T rebounded/defended and wasn't a liability off. Horry was well Horry. Cassell came off the bench and just regulated. Clyde was still the glide when he needed to be. Even Vernon Maxwell had his 'moments'. 
You have got to put together a team that can play w/ other teams, not only play 'their game'. You have to be able to put in your bench and not freakout that you're gonna never score? Or that the other team is going to run a layup drill on you cuz Yao is sitting. Bottomline Tmac can't be your only off-the dribble playmaker? Yao can't be your 'whole defense', this funnel every penatrator towards him isn't working?Tracy McGrady is 2nd in rebouding? That's crazy...with all the mins JHo/Stro played?
Someone said we need basically all new players except Yao/Tracy, I tend to agree. Rafer and Spanuoulis will be enough at the point. You've got to get some straight balling-*** shooters in here, and some tuff-minded Oakley-types next to Yao, PERIOD. 

Les needs to stop blathering on in the newspapers and get things done to 'really help' us, not just put bandaids on bullet wounds. _If the best you can muster is Bogans, a old rundown Bob Sura, and a draftee, that's not nearly enough to be competitive_? This roster has to be turned over.

lineup:
s:Rafer, b: Spanuoulis, Head - also is trade bait
s: Brent Barry b: draftee, or Stephen Jackson/Q's/Fred Jones
s: Tracy b: Jared Jeffries
s: Prizbilla/Elson b: Howard (Swift to DEN or POR use Hayes as trade-bait or sign him)
s: Yao b: Battie (send Sura to ORL)


----------



## CbobbyB

*Would a Bobby Sura for Chris Duhon be an ideal trade?*
or anybody else for Chris Duhon..


----------



## Demiloy

Sura? Are you kidding? The Bulls want young players, not 30-somethings who can't play anymore. I really don;t think they'd trade him for anyone on the Rockets except for maybe Head, who we don't want to give up. At least, not for Duhon.


----------



## houst-mac

CbobbyB said:


> *Would a Bobby Sura for Chris Duhon be an ideal trade?*
> or anybody else for Chris Duhon..


Dont think Bulls agree to that. Put in some draft picks and mabe then it would be possible


----------



## CrackerJack

i think sura for duhon would be good, because sura can bring back-court depth and experience and still has very good skills, but he was such a big part of our team chemistry back in 04-05 season and was very solid as a starting PG, so im really not sure actually


----------



## Demiloy

CrackerJack said:


> i think sura for duhon would be good, because sura can bring back-court depth and experience and still has very good skills, but he was such a big part of our team chemistry back in 04-05 season and was very solid as a starting PG, so im really not sure actually


 Let me say it again- CHICAGO WILL NOT TRADE DUHON FOR SURA!!! Really, there's no way. Duhon is young and has potential; Sura has some potential -- to be able to even play at all. NO way. The Bulls GM isn't stupid.


----------



## Yao Mania

yah no one's gonna want Sura right now unless they're trading away trash, or unless they're the New York Knicks


----------



## Gotham2krazy

debarge said:


> Rashard Lewis are you guys for real? You think SEA is going to let him go for for flying Ryan Bowen and Stromile? I doubt it...
> 
> Jared Jeffries could play the 4, if you acquire Tony Battie or Fransico Elson to give you a different look defensively against star 4s. The Roc's are very limited and weak def/off at the 4? Howard would be great for a backup 4, at this point he's _not_ a starter...I like Battie or Elson for the total skills they'd bring, the tuffness-rebounding-viable off game lining up next to Yao. I think DEN will be looking to move some money so maybe they'd move Elson. Joel Prizbills is also a FA so we could go def and us another twin towers scenario. The Blazers are gonna try to trade for KMart w/ Zach Randolph both make 12mil. Maybe they'd trade for Stro, lets hope we get Elson. I'd like us to be a really good defensive team like the Pistons or Spurs.
> 
> Draft a wingman for god's sake! Bring over Spalounis, try getting Brent Barry to start the year. If the draftee ends up playing like Danny Granger or McCants, then move him into the starting lineup. You have to have a team w/ options, right now we can only play ride the star mode. Ride Yao or Tracy til they just can't pull us anymore. That's not what great teams do all season. When we won our titles we had great teams. No not everyone was a household name, but the guys did their jobs well. Otis T rebounded/defended and wasn't a liability off. Horry was well Horry. Cassell came off the bench and just regulated. Clyde was still the glide when he needed to be. Even Vernon Maxwell had his 'moments'.
> You have got to put together a team that can play w/ other teams, not only play 'their game'. You have to be able to put in your bench and not freakout that you're gonna never score? Or that the other team is going to run a layup drill on you cuz Yao is sitting. Bottomline Tmac can't be your only off-the dribble playmaker? Yao can't be your 'whole defense', this funnel every penatrator towards him isn't working?Tracy McGrady is 2nd in rebouding? That's crazy...with all the mins JHo/Stro played?
> Someone said we need basically all new players except Yao/Tracy, I tend to agree. Rafer and Spanuoulis will be enough at the point. You've got to get some straight balling-*** shooters in here, and some tuff-minded Oakley-types next to Yao, PERIOD.
> 
> Les needs to stop blathering on in the newspapers and get things done to 'really help' us, not just put bandaids on bullet wounds. _If the best you can muster is Bogans, a old rundown Bob Sura, and a draftee, that's not nearly enough to be competitive_? This roster has to be turned over.
> 
> lineup:
> s:Rafer, b: Spanuoulis, Head - also is trade bait
> s: Brent Barry b: draftee, or Stephen Jackson/Q's/Fred Jones
> s: Tracy b: Jared Jeffries
> s: Prizbilla/Elson b: Howard (Swift to DEN or POR use Hayes as trade-bait or sign him)
> s: Yao b: Battie (send Sura to ORL)


Didn't Tony Battie re-sign with the Magic already?


----------



## jworth

Gotham2krazy said:


> Didn't Tony Battie re-sign with the Magic already?


I think he said Houston should trade Sura for him.


----------



## Dean the Master

If we draft Shelden Williams in the first round and Trade 2nd rounder, Swift for Smith,Macijauskas, and JJ Redick (If drafted by Hornets) from Hornets would it be resonable?
Swift would be their nice big man under CP3, there would be lots of highlight reel dunks. 
I think we need Shooter and Defender outside, Macijauskas is a nice defender, he can also shoot. 
With Yao already dominates the C spot, do we still need a big "star" PF to share the presure? I think Williams can do the job. JR can be turned to be a big time player, (better prospect than Stro, and NO/OK doesnt want him anymore.)
Rockets' line up:
Alston/Spanoulis/Macijauskas
JR Smith/Head/JJ Redick/Spanoulis
McGrady/Bogans/Hayes
Williams/Howard/Hayes
Yao/FA/Mutombo


----------



## debarge

CrackerJack said:


> i think sura for duhon would be good, because sura can bring back-court depth and experience and still has very good skills, but he was such a big part of our team chemistry back in 04-05 season and was very solid as a starting PG, so im really not sure actually


_Let me say this for like the tenth time guys,_ *Bob Sura is DONE*. When he signed with us he needed back surgery and didn't play til xmas? Did we even bother to give him a physical? UHHH DUUHHHH...CD/Lindsey... AND why does everyone suddenly think having this old ole' defender and streaky shooter will make us that much better. Everyone has hated on Rafer this year because he didn't play like "Skip", why should he? He's overall played well considering everything that went on this year. Sura did NOTHING RAFER CANT DO, and he's better defensively. BUT THE COMBO OF JBARRY-SURA-WESLEY for some reason seemed to work well. (Though I never and to this day still didn't like trading JJ for DWes) It worked well because they all got hot together. Not because they're all so great individually. That's why when you took one of the three out of the equation, they absolutely sucked! They all got hot at the same time, and they all got old and sorry at the same time. We need autonomous guys in here who can "create" chemistry w/ Tracy and Yao, it won't happen overnight, it will take time. If and I say IF Sura were healthy wh/ he's not, he'd be at best the backup to Rafer? Wouldn't you want Spanoulis, Janerro Pargo, Brevin Knight, or Derek Armstrong doing that? At this point, Sura just needs to stop playing the "Bagwell" take his money and stop wasting our time. The Rockets didn't let Akeem retire here, but they'd let Sura bring us down this offseason, that makes no sense to me? No one deserves more respect than Him. To address trade scenarios involving Sura, the only teams who will want him are teams who are looking to get rid of contracts, (other older players) to just cut/release him? Or maybe to sit on the bench and give "veteran leadership."

I don't know whose worse the Texans or the Rockets? They just refuse to make good sound business decisons? _Hmmmn, maybe we should cut this guy who can't play on the court? Get his roster spot? Sign Hayes or Lampe as backups on the cheap? Cuz we might have injuries at some point? Oh NO that'll never happen... _ This never happened with Rudy were we only lineup up like 7 guys for a game. Rudy always had players to spare, who could do 'something'. _Remeber Jason Collier, Chucky Brown, Scotty Brooks, Pete Chillcut? All those guys who sat on our bench - just in case. Everyone of those dudes were better than anyone Jeff has selected._ I MISS RUDY 

There would NEVER BE A RYAN BOWEN ON A RUDY TEAM? There might be a *Chuck Hayes*, which is why if we keep any scrubs from this season, it should be him alone. He has a tangible skill REBOUNDING AND DEFENDING. I personally would've kept Baxter and played him as a backup center to go w/ the quicker lineup? But Chuck, he has potential. Unlike some other namebrand pricey PF's we have. I believe Chuck will work harder this summer to improve his shooting and overall play. I think that's in him. I don't see how he can't be Malik Rose for us. That's good off the bench, someone solid who to me deserved more PT. I'd prefer seeing him and Luther next yr and not anyone else who didn't really show anything. (Wesley, Swift, Dke, Bowen, Bogans, Sura) they all bring nothing to the table as far as winning? To me none of those guys "earned" a spot or an extension. IMO they (Rafer, and even Howard) showed that they cared about winning, and that w/ their stars they can be winners. I don't even want Wesley Dke and Stro on the team anymore, they're just reminders of this past season and didn't give it their best. Showing up every 5 games just doesn't cut it when you wanna be a contender. I'm not saying they "like to lose", I'm saying the fire and desire isn't there for them, at least not here. Sura is just in denial that his career is over, I don't know why, he wasn't Grant Hill (and all-star/mvp type), he was just some guy on the Cavs/Hawks?
Retool and Rebuild that's what I say :soapbox:


----------



## debarge

Gotham2krazy said:


> Dude, he's 6'10" and played the 2 with the Wizards.


I like Jeffries versatility, can play multiple roles on a team that's vital. We should accept that Tmac will miss at least 10-12 games next yr for something, Jeffries would be a capable bandaid.

Has anyone thought about Jammal Magloire? Or Nene, now that DEN has Patterson/Evans and most likely will get Z Randolph, maybe we could get Nene/Elson for Stromile/2nd rd Pk and Bogans? We'd pick up their salaries so for them it might be enticing, no Kiki V now.

I stand by my Tony Battie/JJeffries  idea, and then just draft a 2. I want big changes but something tells me that's not reality. Other than the Barkely McGrady deals, we don't usually make blockbusters, we make tend to make small incremental changes hoping they'll turn out big for us. I hope after this p-athetic season it sparks a fire in CD, he can do good work, maybe this will motivate him and he has gotten over his man-crush for Stromile's dunking ability> :biggrin:

P.S. _Don't make me start a "Cut Bob Sura" thread :rofl:_


----------



## Cornholio

debarge said:


> I stand by my Tony Battie/JJeffries  idea, and then just draft a 2. I want big changes but something tells me that's not reality. Other than the Barkely McGrady deals, we don't usually make blockbusters, we make tend to make small incremental changes hoping they'll turn out big for us. I hope after this p-athetic season it sparks a fire in CD, he can do good work, maybe this will motivate him and he has gotten over his man-crush for Stromile's dunking ability> :biggrin:


Battie signed an extension with Orlando.


----------



## jdiggidy

> I believe Chuck will work harder this summer to improve his shooting and overall play. I think that's in him. I don't see how he can't be Malik Rose for us.


As long as Houston doesn't pay Chuck Malik Rose money then we will be OK. If we do, it will be OK because we can then trade him to NYC.

It will be interesting to see who Daryl Morey or whatever his name is thinks are good/bad prospects. He probably has formulas and computer programs that will tell the rockets who the most productive players at every position were in 2005. He also probably has a formula to determine what fair market value for a player is based on other player salaries.

By hiring Morey this probably means that Les doesn't want to spend alot of cash this year on free agents. He wants this guy to crunch the numbers to see how little he has to shell out in order to put a decent team on the court next year. Les is not looking to build an elite team. He is ready to sell. Hope I'm wrong!


----------



## jworth

jdiggidy said:


> As long as Houston doesn't pay Chuck Malik Rose money then we will be OK. If we do, it will be OK because we can then trade him to NYC.
> 
> It will be interesting to see who Daryl Morey or whatever his name is thinks are good/bad prospects. He probably has formulas and computer programs that will tell the rockets who the most productive players at every position were in 2005. He also probably has a formula to determine what fair market value for a player is based on other player salaries.
> 
> By hiring Morey this probably means that Les doesn't want to spend alot of cash this year on free agents. He wants this guy to crunch the numbers to see how little he has to shell out in order to put a decent team on the court next year. Les is not looking to build an elite team. He is ready to sell. Hope I'm wrong!


I found this post pretty funny.


----------



## CbobbyB

*Is there anyway we can steal Devin Harris from Dallas???*
this kid is pretty good


----------



## TManiAC

CbobbyB said:


> *Is there anyway we can steal Devin Harris from Dallas???*
> this kid is pretty good


Doubt it. Avery Johnson is very high on Harris and all their other pointguards are free agents. Obtaining Harris will be extremely difficult especially for a division rival.


----------



## jdiggidy

> I found this post pretty funny.


Hey, Morey is like alot Theo Epstein and some of the other "NEW" GM's in baseball who use stats to draft in addition to the scouting. The Rockets will probably no longer draft on potential alone. They will now have the statistical analysis to back it up.


----------



## The_Franchise

Alot of 'athletes' see their stock shoot up at the Chicago combine (Head's 39 inch vertical is what initially drew the Rockets to him), so if Adams puts up crazy numbers like I expect him too he might become a late a first rounder instead of an early 2nd rounder. I can't think of any other players in the late first or 2nd round who could have as close to a defensive impact that Adams would have in the NBA. James White possibly if he puts it together. Perimeter defense + shooting must be the keys to this year's offseason!


----------



## jworth

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Alot of 'athletes' see their stock shoot up at the Chicago combine (Head's 39 inch vertical is what initially drew the Rockets to him), so if Adams puts up crazy numbers like I expect him too he might become a late a first rounder instead of an early 2nd rounder. I can't think of any other players in the late first or 2nd round who could have as close to a defensive impact that Adams would have in the NBA. James White possibly if he puts it together. Perimeter defense + shooting must be the keys to this year's offseason!


I've thought about James White some too and I'm sure he'll be available at our pick in the second round. His offense has a lot of holes but his athleticism can't be questioned, and with the physical abilities he has I'm sure he could be worked into a solid defender. If we can draft a shooter in the lottery then White might would be a good guy to complement on the perimeter with his length, but I'd like to see him prove himself a little more before the draft.


----------



## debarge

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Alot of 'athletes' see their stock shoot up at the Chicago combine (Head's 39 inch vertical is what initially drew the Rockets to him), so if Adams puts up crazy numbers like I expect him too he might become a late a first rounder instead of an early 2nd rounder. I can't think of any other players in the late first or 2nd round who could have as close to a defensive impact that Adams would have in the NBA. James White possibly if he puts it together. Perimeter defense + shooting must be the keys to this year's offseason!


I just hope we draft a 2 for petes' sake? Rudy Gay, Richard Roby, Rodney Carney, M Collins all I hope are on our short list, for the 2ndrder I think we should package for another 4 somehow... :clap: maybe Morey won't be an idiot fallin in love w/ collegiate stats. The Celtics haven't exactly been thru the roof.


----------



## Gotham2krazy

debarge said:


> *There might be a Chuck Hayes, which is why if we keep any scrubs from this season, it should be him alone.* He has a tangible skill REBOUNDING AND DEFENDING. I personally would've kept Baxter and played him as a backup center to go w/ the quicker lineup? But Chuck, he has potential. Unlike some other namebrand pricey PF's we have. I believe Chuck will work harder this summer to improve his shooting and overall play. I think that's in him. I* don't see how he can't be Malik Rose for us.* That's good off the bench, someone solid who to me deserved more PT. I'd prefer seeing him and Luther next yr and not anyone else who didn't really show anything. (Wesley, Swift, Dke, Bowen, Bogans, Sura) they all bring nothing to the table as far as winning? To me none of those guys "earned" a spot or an extension. IMO they (Rafer, and even Howard) showed that they cared about winning, and that w/ their stars they can be winners. I don't even want Wesley Dke and Stro on the team anymore, they're just reminders of this past season and didn't give it their best. Showing up every 5 games just doesn't cut it when you wanna be a contender. I'm not saying they "like to lose", I'm saying the fire and desire isn't there for them, at least not here. Sura is just in denial that his career is over, I don't know why, he wasn't Grant Hill (and all-star/mvp type), he was just some guy on the Cavs/Hawks?
> Retool and Rebuild that's what I say :soapbox:


CHUCK HAYES IS NOT A SCRUB! But yeah, you can't say any rookie's a scrub until after their 2nd season, rule of thumb! jk I admit, Sura needs to go, his one year (I think?) should be packaged along with Stromile to maybe New Jersey for a first rounder and Clifford Robinson? Wesley NEEDS TO GO, SO DOES BOWEN, everyone else I don't really mind as we do need guys to come off the bench and good role players. As for Chuck again, I know he's improving his jumpshot right now, so we'll have to see what he'll be able to give us in the pre-season and summer camp displaying his skills, hopefully wowing each and every one of us.


----------



## The_Franchise

jworth said:


> I've thought about James White some too and I'm sure he'll be available at our pick in the second round. His offense has a lot of holes but his athleticism can't be questioned, and with the physical abilities he has I'm sure he could be worked into a solid defender. If we can draft a shooter in the lottery then White might would be a good guy to complement on the perimeter with his length, but I'd like to see him prove himself a little more before the draft.


 Agreed, but with the athleticism + ability White and Adams can display when they are on, proving themselves before the draft would take them out of the 2nd round IMO.

Debarge: The Celtics have done an awesome job making the most out of their picks over the last 2 years... but I'm sure Ainge has had alot more to do with that than Morey.


----------



## reno2000

we need to get this off-season right for the sake of the franchises future in the next 5yrs. with the right moves, i believe we could get to the WCF within 2-3yrs, but wrong moves could leave us with no capspace, more large contracts and the wrong personel. lets hope dawson, JVG are thinking long and hard about the off-season at this very moment and for the next 2 months.


----------



## chn353

well update on the situation is 
mike james and sam cassell have both expressed an interest in playing out their career's in houston. both can be gotten with MLE or 1/2 of MLE. on the other hand a younger player spanoulis is developing into a good PG... but the rockets have about 3 PG's (wesley, alston and sura) whilst only one true shooting guard (head). Mike james and cassell can both fit into the SG position preety well as they've shown this season esp mike james... 44% 3PFG%. whilst spanoulis will take time to adapt to the nba's style of playing... so in my opinion and prob the opinions of other rockets fans.. we should get james and cassell with MLE


----------



## CrackerJack

chn353 said:


> well update on the situation is
> mike james and sam cassell have both expressed an interest in playing out their career's in houston. both can be gotten with MLE or 1/2 of MLE. on the other hand a younger player spanoulis is developing into a good PG... but the rockets have about 3 PG's (wesley, alston and sura) whilst only one true shooting guard (head). Mike james and cassell can both fit into the SG position preety well as they've shown this season esp mike james... 44% 3PFG%. whilst spanoulis will take time to adapt to the nba's style of playing... so in my opinion and prob the opinions of other rockets fans.. we should get james and cassell with MLE


will james be willing to take that contract is he that committed to us?


----------



## chn353

i believe he is... y else would you alert the media about it. plus.. he noted that his family has just brought a house in H-town = they want to get settled in houston, which shows his willingness to return. i think he just wants to settle in houston therefore 1/2 of MLE would be enough


----------



## CrackerJack

chn353 said:


> i believe he is... y else would you alert the media about it. plus.. he noted that his family has just brought a house in H-town = they want to get settled in houston, which shows his willingness to return. i think he just wants to settle in houston therefore 1/2 of MLE would be enough


i really hope so


----------



## Dean the Master

Well, If MJ really wants to be in Houston, I think he would do anything to be here. For example 1/2 MLE contract. I am hopeing MJ will take over DW's posision as we are letting DW go. MJ would be a really nice addition to this team.


----------



## jdiggidy

Mike James wants to be in Houston but he wants to get paid the short term big bucks. He would take the entire MLE and maybe a bit more to come here. The only way he would come for less is if the Rockets were to offer him a 3-4 year deal at half the MLE plus increases over the term of the contract. Otherwise, he will be back in Toronto for the short term at about 4.5 to 5.5 mil per year for two years.

Cassell is the same way but, I think he would want alot more than James. Tough decision.


----------



## Dean the Master

I would not want to see Cassell here. Simply put, he is OLD. Someone has said this, and I memtion this again, stop putting old or injuried people on this them during the offseason, and complain about it once the season starts. 
I think We dont need Cassell here, what can he offer that no other young guys can? Leadership, experience? That's JVG's job.


----------



## CrackerJack

for the people who are wondering about what draft picks we have this year, we have a lottery pick, #32 and #39 and that the 2 picks we swapped were for 2007 onwards.

LINK 
just scroll down to the 2007 Outstanding Trades Section and then two the 2nd Rounders


----------



## CbobbyB

Anybody think the Clippers will let Daniel Ewing go??


----------



## jworth

CbobbyB said:


> Anybody think the Clippers will let Daniel Ewing go??


It depends. They probably aren't too worried about keeping him since Shaun Livingston and Quinton Ross have a lot of future and for the time being Sam is doing his thing.


----------



## JMES HOME

*Off-season*

if houston are going to make 1 good trade this offseason what should it be


----------



## Yao Mania

*Re: Off-season*



JMES HOME said:


> if houston are going to make 1 good trade this offseason what should it be


I'm just gonna merge this with the FA discussion thread.


----------



## jdiggidy

Apologize in advance. I know I asked this question before but, can someone please explain to me how the expiring contracts work? (Wesley, Bowen, etc)

Does this mean that we open salary slot around 2.5 to 4 million open? Does this mean that we have to veteran minimums we can offer? Please expand.


----------



## TManiAC

jdiggidy said:


> Apologize in advance. I know I asked this question before but, can someone please explain to me how the expiring contracts work? (Wesley, Bowen, etc)
> 
> Does this mean that we open salary slot around 2.5 to 4 million open? Does this mean that we have to veteran minimums we can offer? Please expand.


We rid Wesley and Bowen's salary from the team salary but that doesnt necessarily mean we have an extra 2.5 to 4 million to spend. If the team is over the cap (I think its around 48 Mill for 06-07), then the team is given an exception (Mid Level Exemption, worth around 6 Mill for 06-07) to spend on signing new players or retaining players already on the team. For example, New York has a team salary thats 100 Mill+. Houston is closer to 60 Mill. Though New York has more than 40 Mill more in salary, they still only have the MLE to spend on acquiring new players. There are more specific rules for those players being re-signed to their original team (such as Bird Rights). All these exemptions help soften the "cap."

Salaries start becoming a problem once you pass the luxury tax threshold (around 60 Mill?). For each dollar spent on salary in excess of the luxury tax threshold, the team pays another dollar in tax to the league. In effect, New York pays an extra 40 Mill on tax in addition to their 100 Mill + salary every year. Franchises as large as the Lakers, Sixers and Knicks can afford such a luxury since their market is much larger than say Memphis. 

Expiring contracts are considered important because they keep franchises away from the luxury. Also, if a team has plenty of young promising rookies, they are inclined to reduce their team salary in anticipation of re-signing their young players once their rookie contracts expire (Dallas Mavericks letting Steve Nash go to retain Josh Howard is a good example).


----------



## jdiggidy

Thanks for the explanation TManIAC. Not a whole lot of wiggle room for the Rockets here.


----------



## Dean the Master

If we trade away S.Swift this summer by any chance would you like to sign Tim Thomas as FA?


----------



## chn353

yes Tim Thomas cau really help with the perimeter shooting .. thats really what we need .. some people that can knock down some shots from the arc


----------



## jworth

chn353 said:


> yes Tim Thomas cau really help with the perimeter shooting .. thats really what we need .. some people that can knock down some shots from the arc


I agree. He's definitely the type of forward who can stretch defenses with his versatility, and that's exactly what we need. I'd like to see Houston trade Swift to Phoenix for Thomas and the 27th pick. The reason I probably wouldn't trade Swift for Thomas straight up is because I don't like the idea of Juwon Howard and Tim Thomas being the biggest guys on the team after Yao, but if the Rockets got the 27th pick as well they'd get an opportunity to draft a big man late in the first round (or draft Maurice Ager or Hassan Adams and wait until the second round to draft a big man).


----------



## Hakeem

I watched a bit of Tim Thomas in New York, and he was a horrible defender and rebounder. Didn't seem to care.


----------



## jworth

Hakeem said:


> I watched a bit of Tim Thomas in New York, and he was a horrible defender and rebounder. Didn't seem to care.


He was bad in New York but that's pretty much the case with everyone who goes to the Knicks.


----------



## TManiAC

jworth said:


> He was bad in New York but that's pretty much the case with everyone who goes to the Knicks.


On the flip side, everyone going to the Suns looks good.

Tim Thomas has been a career underachiever.


----------



## jworth

TManiAC said:


> *On the flip side, everyone going to the Suns looks good*.
> 
> Tim Thomas has been a career underachiever.


That's true but Thomas' best days were in Milwaukee.


----------



## TManiAC

jworth said:


> That's true but Thomas' best days were in Milwaukee.


In Milwaukee, when he averaged 30+ mpg, he was only grabbing 4.9 boards at best. Though he was a great shooter, he as well as players like KVH and Radmanovic, need to get into their heads that they are not guards and they are expected to make use of their height and length to hustle for boards and defend post players. 

Tim Thomas is a huge defensive liability. I would rather Bob Sura than Tim Thomas anyday.


----------



## jworth

TManiAC said:


> In Milwaukee, when he averaged 30+ mpg, he was only grabbing 4.9 boards at best. Though he was a great shooter, he as well as players like KVH and Radmanovic, need to get into their heads that they are not guards and they are expected to make use of their height and length to hustle for boards and defend post players.
> 
> Tim Thomas is a huge defensive liability. I would rather Bob Sura than Tim Thomas anyday.


Thomas has never been an inforcer, and while there have been times that he should have been more aggressive down low, he has always been a faceup forward who stretches defenses and thrives in transition. You don't get a banger in Thomas, but you get a player who could play a role similar to that of a Robert Horry (albiet he's no Big Shot Bob). He plays a completly different position than Bob Sura, and in my opinion, a player who can actually spend the majority of his time on the active roster brings more to a team than a player who is constantly sitting out with injuries.


----------



## Gotham2krazy

jworth said:


> Thomas has never been an inforcer, and while there have been times that he should have been more aggressive down low, he has always been a faceup forward who stretches defenses and thrives in transition. *You don't get a banger in Thomas, but you get a player who could play a role similar to that of a Robert Horry (albiet he's no Big Shot Bob). * He plays a completly different position than Bob Sura, and in my opinion, a player who can actually spend the majority of his time on the active roster brings more to a team than a player who is constantly sitting out with injuries.


He's starting to become one with the Suns, seeing how many important threes he's had in the playoffs to help win games.


----------



## TManiAC

jworth said:


> Thomas has never been an inforcer, and while there have been times that he should have been more aggressive down low, he has always been a faceup forward who stretches defenses and thrives in transition. (1)
> 
> You don't get a banger in Thomas, but you get a player who could play a role similar to that of a Robert Horry (albiet he's no Big Shot Bob). (2)
> 
> He plays a completly different position than Bob Sura, and in my opinion, a player who can actually spend the majority of his time on the active roster brings more to a team than a player who is constantly sitting out with injuries. (3)


(1) So can a player like Rasual Butler, and can actually guard 3s in the process.

(2) Horry was actually a fairly decent defensive PF in his day, as was Cliff Robinson. Tim Thomas isnt. Players on the order of Radmanovic, Tim Thomas and KVH are considered disappointments whereas players like Cliff and Rasheed are considered versatile... theres a reason for that.

(3) Tim Thomas has had a long history of injuries, so distinguishing based on health is quite unfair against Bob Sura. As for my comparison, Sura can probably do an equally good job at guarding SFs and PFs as Tim Thomas. Tim Thomas has had a habit of collecting fouls for his poor recognition and his inclination to guard with his hands instead of his feet. I would much rather spend half the money signing an athletic wing to do the shooting (and stretching defenses) such as Rasual Butler or getting a defensive presence in the post rather than picking up a player who is stuck between positions and not particularly good at either. A player such as Darius Songaila would suffice for serving the purpose of simply stretching defenses and playing a transition game.


----------



## TManiAC

jworth said:


> Thomas has never been an inforcer, and while there have been times that he should have been more aggressive down low, he has always been a faceup forward who stretches defenses and thrives in transition. (1)
> 
> You don't get a banger in Thomas, but you get a player who could play a role similar to that of a Robert Horry (albiet he's no Big Shot Bob). (2)
> 
> He plays a completly different position than Bob Sura, and in my opinion, a player who can actually spend the majority of his time on the active roster brings more to a team than a player who is constantly sitting out with injuries. (3)


(1) So can a player like Rasual Butler, and can actually guard 3s in the process.

(2) Horry was actually a fairly decent defensive PF in his day, as was Cliff Robinson. Tim Thomas isnt. Players on the order of Radmanovic, Tim Thomas and KVH are considered disappointments whereas players like Cliff and Rasheed are considered versatile... theres a reason for that.

(3) Tim Thomas has had a long history of injuries, so distinguishing based on health is quite unfair against Bob Sura. As for my comparison, Sura can probably do an equally good job at guarding SFs and PFs as Tim Thomas. Tim Thomas has had a habit of collecting fouls for his poor recognition and his inclination to guard with his hands instead of his feet. I would much rather spend half the money signing an athletic wing to do the shooting (and stretching defenses) such as Rasual Butler or getting a defensive presence in the post rather than picking up a player who is stuck between positions and not particularly good at either. A player such as Darius Songaila would suffice for serving the purpose of simply stretching defenses and playing a transition game for the PF spot.


----------



## jworth

TManiAC said:


> (1) So can a player like Rasual Butler, and can actually guard 3s in the process.


Rasual Butler had his best season this year which is not a surprise considering he was playing with the Hornets rather than a title contender with plenty of talent, but Butler's best season is comparable to only Tim Thomas' worst seasons. 



TManiAC said:


> (2) Horry was actually a fairly decent defensive PF in his day, as was Cliff Robinson. Tim Thomas isnt. Players on the order of Radmanovic, Tim Thomas and KVH are considered disappointments whereas players like Cliff and Rasheed are considered versatile... theres a reason for that.


You might could call Tim Thomas a dissapointment but that doesn't change what he can bring to the floor. Just ask George Karl or Mike D'Antoni. 



TManiAC said:


> (3)*Tim Thomas has had a long history of injuries, so distinguishing based on health is quite unfair against Bob Sura.* As for my comparison, Sura can probably do an equally good job at guarding SFs and PFs as Tim Thomas. Tim Thomas has had a habit of collecting fouls for his poor recognition and his inclination to guard with his hands instead of his feet. I would much rather spend half the money signing an athletic wing to do the shooting (and stretching defenses) such as Rasual Butler or getting a defensive presence in the post rather than picking up a player who is stuck between positions and not particularly good at either. A player such as Darius Songaila would suffice for serving the purpose of simply stretching defenses and playing a transition game for the PF spot.


Thomas has been healthy as of late, and when is the last time we've seen Bob Sura play?


----------



## TManiAC

jworth said:


> Rasual Butler had his best season this year which is not a surprise considering he was playing with the Hornets rather than a title contender with plenty of talent, but Butler's best season is comparable to only Tim Thomas' worst seasons. (1)
> 
> 
> You might could call Tim Thomas a dissapointment but that doesn't change what he can bring to the floor. Just ask George Karl or Mike D'Antoni. (2)
> 
> 
> Thomas has been healthy as of late, and when is the last time we've seen Bob Sura play?


(1) He wasnt any worse on Miami.

(2) What about to Scott Skiles and Lenny Wilkins?

(3) As of real late, ok, but he still has a history. Sura was healthy before this season. Which one is more likely to have re-curring health issues? You would sign Tim Thomas despite all these things?

Tell me, would you even have considered Tim Thomas 3 months ago? You have to remember anyone sharing the same side of the court as Nash has looked spectacular because of his playmaking. Tim Thomas doesnt have to be a PF, he only has to be Tim Thomas in a system designed by DAntoni around Nash. You cant expect the same of Thomas in a Van Gundian system designed around Yao.


----------



## Cornholio

^^^^Sura wasn't healthy at the start of the 04/05 season.


----------



## TManiAC

cornholio said:


> ^^^^Sura wasn't healthy at the start of the 04/05 season.


Isnt this besides the point?


----------



## ClutchCity

If Mike James says he wants to come here, and will be willing to take the MLE, I say we sign him. I know he'll be another small guard but his scoring can really boost are offense a ton. He's going to take lots of pressure of Yao & Tmac, penetrate the defense, finish at the hoop and hit the 3pt. But everything is going to rely on our big two staying healthy.


----------



## Hakeem

To be fair, Tim Thomas has shot over 40% from beyond the arc in the past few seasons. We could really use that.



jworth said:


> He was bad in New York but that's pretty much the case with everyone who goes to the Knicks.


Stephon Marbury and Eddy Curry had probably the best seasons of their careers when they went to New York. Jamal Crawford suffered no drop in performance. Nazr Mohammed was playing much better on the Knicks than he is on the Spurs... So I don't think there's a real trend. But I understand your point that Tim Thomas perhaps didn't bother playing defense on a bad team like the Knicks. But do we want a guy with that sort of mentality?


----------



## edyzbasketball

By the way, why can't we sign Stan van Gundy as an Assistant coach?
They are brothers, so it might work.

Any thoughts?


----------



## bronx43

edyzbasketball said:


> By the way, why can't we sign Stan van Gundy as an Assistant coach?
> They are brothers, so it might work.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Unless you're named Del Harris, I doubt you would be content about moving from head coach to assistant coach.


----------



## HayesFan

edyzbasketball said:


> By the way, why can't we sign Stan van Gundy as an Assistant coach?
> They are brothers, so it might work.
> 
> Any thoughts?


It sounds like he can't do anything until 08 because of the remainder of his contract with Miami. I am not sure that is true, but that's what it sounded like in that JVG interview/article talking about Stan.


----------



## edyzbasketball

I thought Stan resigned from the team.
Does the original contract still apply?


----------



## TManiAC

bronx43 said:


> Unless you're named Del Harris, I doubt you would be content about moving from head coach to assistant coach.


PJ Carlisimo


----------



## edyzbasketball

TManiAC said:


> PJ Carlisimo


Sign Monty Python as the head coach. Maybe someday we'll be like Houston Circus Rockets team. :biggrin:


----------



## HayesFan

edyzbasketball said:


> I thought Stan resigned from the team.
> Does the original contract still apply?


That's what it sounded like in the interview with JVG. Like I said.. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got from it.


----------



## edyzbasketball

Maybe Jon Barry could be the assistant coach? :biggrin:


----------



## jworth

TManiAC said:


> (1) He wasnt any worse on Miami.
> 
> (2) What about to Scott Skiles and Lenny Wilkins?
> 
> (3) As of real late, ok, but he still has a history. Sura was healthy before this season. Which one is more likely to have re-curring health issues? You would sign Tim Thomas despite all these things?
> 
> Tell me, would you even have considered Tim Thomas 3 months ago? You have to remember anyone sharing the same side of the court as Nash has looked spectacular because of his playmaking. Tim Thomas doesnt have to be a PF, he only has to be Tim Thomas in a system designed by DAntoni around Nash. You cant expect the same of Thomas in a Van Gundian system designed around Yao.


I see what you're saying. We wouldn't want to bring Tim Thomas in with the expectations that he's going to be our big man next to Yao. He's a tweener but that doesn't mean he wouldn't bring some valuable things to the Rockets. We could us a PF/SF who could come in and keep the other team's defense spread out and give Yao and McGrady the space they need to operate. I'm not talking about bringing him in with a big contract, but if we could somehow trade Swift to Phoenix for Thomas in a sign-and-trade deal it would be worth it in my mind.


----------



## TManiAC

jworth said:


> I see what you're saying. We wouldn't want to bring Tim Thomas in with the expectations that he's going to be our big man next to Yao. He's a tweener but that doesn't mean he wouldn't bring some valuable things to the Rockets. We could us a PF/SF who could come in and keep the other team's defense spread out and give Yao and McGrady the space they need to operate. I'm not talking about bringing him in with a big contract, but if we could somehow trade Swift to Phoenix for Thomas in a sign-and-trade deal it would be worth it in my mind.


Sure we could use outside shooting, thats why I made comparisons to Bob Sura, i.e. we dont necessarily have to look for outside shooting at the PF/SF spots, we could use outside shooting from any position but it would be more natural to get a guard who can do that and a PF that can play PF. Ideally, a PF that can play PF while versatile enough to float to the perimeter and knock down a trey. Versatile players like that are rare.

I see what youre saying too, I just dont know that its our best solution... definitely a solution, but may not be our best.

With that said, I dont think PHX would do a trade for Stro. It would certainly be worth it for us but it wouldnt be as feasible for PHX. PHX wants to resign Thomas, they can use him in their system. I dont think they need Stro and I dont know that PHX wants to lock up 5 mill in cap space for Stro. The dilemma for PHX is whether Tim Thomas is worth signing and taking up cap space when they need money to lock up their younger players. In other words, its either signing Tim Thomas for cheap or letting him walk so they have money for Diaw.


----------



## The_Franchise

Hakeem said:


> To be fair, Tim Thomas has shot over 40% from beyond the arc in the past few seasons. We could really use that.


Scott Padgett shot over 40% in his two seasons with us, and he is a FA (did the Nets waive him?). Tim Thomas isn't leaving Phoenix anyways, he sure wouldn't bring much to Houston besides a long ball shooter.


----------



## Pasha The Great

yea it would be a poor move for the suns to not resign tim thomas and stupid for tim to not take the deal.


----------



## Hakeem

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Scott Padgett shot over 40% in his two seasons with us, and he is a FA (did the Nets waive him?). Tim Thomas isn't leaving Phoenix anyways, he sure wouldn't bring much to Houston besides a long ball shooter.


You're right, but I don't think Tim Thomas and Padgett are comparable. They're both poor defenders and rebounders, but Thomas can create his own shot, which is pretty significant. He is close to a 20 pp40 mins scorer. 

(Would I take him, though? No.)


----------



## chn353

scott padgett was king shooter, he won so many games from hitting clutch shots cause of the double team on tmac and yao leaving him. sura and howard open all the time


----------



## HayesFan

Hakeem said:


> You're right, but I don't think Tim Thomas and Padgett are comparable. They're both poor defenders and rebounders, but Thomas can create his own shot, which is pretty significant. He is close to a 20 pp40 mins scorer.
> 
> (Would I take him, though? No.)



You really think Scott Padgett is a poor defender? Wow... he must have changed a lot in the NBA then. He was a good defensive player in college. Not great mind you, but not shabby either.


----------



## TManiAC

HayesFan said:


> You really think Scott Padgett is a poor defender? Wow... he must have changed a lot in the NBA then. He was a good defensive player in college. Not great mind you, but not shabby either.



Padgett seemed to be a poor defender to me, too.


----------



## HayesFan

TManiAC said:


> Padgett seemed to be a poor defender to me, too.


Hey I believe yall I haven't really seen him play since college... :biggrin: so maybe he stopped focusing on defense once he left Tubby.

How much longer until they start making decisions??? Two more weeks of the playoffs?

I am going crazy with all the speculation.


----------



## TManiAC

HayesFan said:


> Hey I believe yall I haven't really seen him play since college... :biggrin: so maybe he stopped focusing on defense once he left Tubby.
> 
> How much longer until they start making decisions??? Two more weeks of the playoffs?
> 
> I am going crazy with all the speculation.


Yeah, I didnt want to flat out say he was a bad defender. Im remembering more his shooting, but if I had to offer an opinion on his defense, it would have to be "slow" He tries though.

Cluthfans.com should start doing their draft analysis sometime this week. They give pretty good information as to what the Rockets fans should expect.


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## Fairsportsfan

This is My Rocket Offseason Plan:

Draft Carney with the First Pick and Draft Dee Brown in the second round.

Split the mle between Flip Murray and Reggie Evans.

Pick up Bogan's opintion and get Scott Pagett with the 1.2 Trade Exp.

Rocket Lineup:

PG)Alston/Head/Brown
SG)Murray/Bogans
SF)McGrady/Carney
PF)Howard/Swift/Pagett
C)Yao/Evans/Deke


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## JMES HOME

Fairsportsfan said:


> This is My Rocket Offseason Plan:
> 
> Draft Carney with the First Pick and Draft Dee Brown in the second round.
> 
> Split the mle between Flip Murray and Reggie Evans.
> 
> Pick up Bogan's opintion and get Scott Pagett with the 1.2 Trade Exp.
> 
> Rocket Lineup:
> 
> PG)Alston/Head/Brown
> SG)Murray/Bogans
> SF)McGrady/Carney
> PF)Howard/Swift/Pagett
> C)Yao/Evans/Deke


 reggie evans is someone i would like to have on the rockets. his a monster on the boards and the idea of drafting carney i reckon is the best person to fit the rocket team... nice work


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## houst-mac

I'd like to see Diop in Houston, he would be great back-up to Yao, but i don't think Dallas will let him go easily, he's played very well at play-offs.


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## Cornholio




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## jworth

cornholio said:


>


He may as well erase Bowen's name off from there and while he's at it take Sura and Mutumbo off as well.


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## CbobbyB

lol


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## Hakeem

I like how Head is placed on the second row with the bench players even though we haven't got a replacement for Wesley yet.


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## reno2000

Just shows how many holes we have in this team.


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## Pimped Out

reno2000 said:


> Just shows how many holes we have in this team.


shows how many holes a healthy tmac can hide


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## c_dog

how about getting kelvin cato back? the pistons aren't going to resign him and he's a tough defender and rebounder.


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## The_Franchise

c_dog said:


> how about getting kelvin cato back? the pistons aren't going to resign him and he's a tough defender and rebounder.


 Houston is spending most/all of their MLE on the backcourt.


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## jworth

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Houston is spending most/all of their MLE on the backcourt.


Yeah, which is what the Rockets should do. 

Right now we're probably gonna have to learn how to deal with Howard, Swift, and Hayes up front unless we can ship Swift out of here for a lottery pick (highly doubt this is possible).


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## lingi1206

i think stro is still a good trade bait he is like a lottery draft player kind of because we all know he has great upside to become great (just like drafting a player from college) but not doing it now...maybe down the road he would become better


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## The_Franchise

Rumor has it DeShawn Stevenson wants a sign and trade to Houston because he is friends with TMac. Problem is, he wants an entire MLE contract. I say NO, would rather keep Bogans. Stevenson really doesn't do anything for us.


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## Gotham2krazy

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Rumor has it DeShawn Stevenson wants a sign and trade to Houston because he is friends with TMac. Problem is, he wants an entire MLE contract. I say NO, would rather keep Bogans. Stevenson really doesn't do anything for us.


Who the hell does Stevenson think he is? He can't hit a 3 if his life depended on it. Well now everyone wants to hop on to the Rockets bandwagon because they're somehow connected to T-Mac? I say no, I wouldn't even sign him if he was asking for a dollar.


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## reno2000

For a supposedly shy person, Tmac sure does have a lot of friends. Every trade rumour to Houston is based on the fact that the person is friends with Tmac.


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## lingi1206

well its good that we have people trying to come to houston but Stevenson diffently doesn't deserve all that money, and for that matter why isn't a good player friends with t-mac that whould like to come?


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## Yao Mania

well Stevenson was hailed was T-Mac Jr. when he first entered the league... he would be an ok fit, but no way I'd spend an entire MLE on him when there are other FAs out there that command less money and can probably play better than him


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## crazyfan

Gotham2krazy said:


> Who the hell does Stevenson think he is? He can't hit a 3 if his life depended on it. Well now everyone wants to hop on to the Rockets bandwagon because they're somehow connected to T-Mac? I say no, I wouldn't even sign him if he was asking for a dollar.





not worth it to spend the entire mle on stevenson. dont want another stro case of having an athletic but low bball iq player. plus stevenson seems to be blowing wide open lay ups each game.


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## Dean the Master

*2006 NBA Free Agent List!*

OK, this is the list from ESPN. It shows every player that would become a Free Agent. !!HERE!! 
Some big names. Check it out.


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## Dean the Master

*Re: 2006 NBA Free Agent List!*

Scanning through that Link I posted above, I found out that C-Webb is available, if he chooses to. That would be a nice addition if we can maybe trade away Howard.


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## Demiloy

*Re: 2006 NBA Free Agent List!*



Dean the Master said:


> Scanning through that Link I posted above, I found out that C-Webb is available, if he chooses to. That would be a nice addition if we can maybe trade away Howard.


 No, please, no. Too old. And how much would we have to pay for him?


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## Dean the Master

*Re: 2006 NBA Free Agent List!*

But he is better than J.Howard in every angle. 
Maybe half of the MLE?
They are about the same age btw, while C-Webb is less than a month younger. lol. 
Besides 33yrs old is not that bad.


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## TManiAC

*Re: 2006 NBA Free Agent List!*



Dean the Master said:


> But he is better than J.Howard in every angle.
> Maybe half of the MLE?
> They are about the same age btw, while C-Webb is less than a month younger. lol.
> Besides 33yrs old is not that bad.



Ild take C-Webb for the entire MLE if that is possible. He is one of the greatest PFs of all time and would definitely be a huge addition. The chemistry would be instant with J-Ho and those two would make it impossible to double Yao. Webber can also stretch defenses with his great passing.

At most though, he is a short term solution and our PF rotation would be notoriously soft. Opposing PFs would have career games against us but Yao will have the best years of his career next to TMac, Juwan Howard and C-Webb.


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## TManiAC

Anyone know (1) how much the Rockets have in Trade Exemptions; (2) When they expire; and (3) How they are utilized -- I understand you can't package it with a player in a trade???

Thanks!


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## Gotham2krazy

*Re: 2006 NBA Free Agent List!*



TManiAC said:


> Ild take C-Webb for the entire MLE if that is possible. He is one of the greatest PFs of all time and would definitely be a huge addition. The chemistry would be instant with J-Ho and those two would make it impossible to double Yao. Webber can also stretch defenses with his great passing.
> 
> At most though, he is a short term solution and our PF rotation would be notoriously soft. Opposing PFs would have career games against us but Yao will have the best years of his career next to TMac, Juwan Howard and C-Webb.


Webber was a great shot blocker before his knee surgery.


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## Cornholio

TManiAC said:


> Anyone know (1) how much the Rockets have in Trade Exemptions; (2) When they expire; and (3) How they are utilized -- I understand you can't package it with a player in a trade???
> 
> Thanks!


A 4.2M TE and a 1.2 TE. I don't know the other things.


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## TManiAC

1. We have a 4.2 Mill TE and 1.67 Mill TE.

3. They can only be used in non-simultaneous trades (only one player outgoing) but can be used as part of multiple non-simultaneous trades (e.g. We'll trade you no. 8 for no. 11 if you will trade Tony Battie for Stromile Swift and our TE).


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## Gotham2krazy

TManiAC said:


> 1. We have a 4.2 Mill TE and 1.67 Mill TE.
> 
> 3. They can only be used in non-simultaneous trades (only one player outgoing) but can be used as part of multiple non-simultaneous trades (e.g. We'll trade you no. 8 for no. 11 if you will trade Tony Battie for Stromile Swift and our TE).


So if Brewer falls to the Magic and we can't get Roy, then could we trade Shelden and Ryan Bowen with a T.E. for Hedo Turkoglu and Ronnie?


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## TManiAC

Gotham2krazy said:


> So if Brewer falls to the Magic and we can't get Roy, then could we trade Shelden and Ryan Bowen with a T.E. for Hedo Turkoglu and Ronnie?


Its possible.

It would be two non-simulataneous trades:

1. Ryan Bowen and TE for Hedo
2. Shelden Williams for Ronnie Brewer

Whether Orlando will take that or whether Ronnie will drop that low is questionable considering the recent athleticism testing results. My pick trade suggestions were with the assumption that the Rockets will take the best available at 8 (used to be Carney before the athleticism tests) but now I think the Rockets will take Brewer at 8 because its no longer considered a reach.

the Rockets may explore trading Luther Head or Stromile Swift with the TEs in exchange for someone more appropriate (but has a larger and un-desirable contract). 

Perhaps Luther Head to Chicago (being an Illini alum). I would love to work something out for Andres Nocioni and would include a Rockets 1st rounder (lottery protected). If not, we could also use Darius Songaila or Mike Sweetney.


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## TManiAC

*Jay Williams.*

Discuss. =)


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## Gotham2krazy

TManiAC said:


> *Jay Williams.*
> 
> Discuss. =)


He's good, him and T.J. Ford are similarly comparable, both are pass first point guards, both are pretty T.O. prone, both were on to extremely well rookie seasons, both had an accident that kept them out of the game. Difference between the two is Jay was out a lot longer than T.J., but Jay is getting plenty of good reviews as teams has worked out with him, so I think the wait for him was well worth it.


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## TManiAC

Gotham2krazy said:


> He's good, him and T.J. Ford are similarly comparable, both are pass first point guards, both are pretty T.O. prone, both were on to extremely well rookie seasons, both had an accident that kept them out of the game. Difference between the two is Jay was out a lot longer than T.J., but Jay is getting plenty of good reviews as teams has worked out with him, so I think the wait for him was well worth it.



I think they are very different (outside of their accident situations).

TJ Ford is lightning quick while Jay Williams is more known for his strength.

TJ Ford is a pass first PG while Jay Williams was a scoring PG.

Im not sure that Jay Williams is getting good reviews, I think hes just getting positive (as opposed to negative) reviews... i.e. he will be able to return to the league as a "servicable" PG. I think its consensus that he will not be anywhere close to the level he was prior to the accident (starter).


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## Dean the Master

Jay Williams is not we need this offseason. Besides we can get our PG in the Draft, we dont need to sign Williams. good consideration though.


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