# blazers and knicks deal looks close



## mixum (Mar 19, 2003)

hearing that this deal is on the table and agreed to in principle by both sides:

PDX trades: Wallace, Patterson, and Anderson to NYK for: Houston, Van Horn, Doleac, and a first round pick

Wow! That would be huge! 

Source is wfan whos claiming its agreeged in principle.....but thats what they say....I doubt this since it would go against what we have been saying about cutting payroll but it would keep us competetive!


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

This would be HUGE.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

I like the trade for the Knicks get rid of the *****'s. Houston and Horn are soft.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

The names that I don't like in the deal are Patterson for Portland and Van Horn for the Knicks. Everything else I could live with. To bad those two contracts don't cancel one another out.

What about adding Dale Davis into the mix, didn't I read that he is questioning his role with Portland and could be asking for a trade from management also?


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## Beaverton (Apr 17, 2003)

http://www.nba.com/knicks/roster/

check out the roster. 

see a few names missing?


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

most the names in the trade arent missing.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Beaverton</b>!
> http://www.nba.com/knicks/roster/
> 
> check out the roster.
> ...


Houston and Doleac are still there, but Van Horn (and Sweetney, Thomas, Frank Williams) are not. It looks to me like someone just screwed up and forgot the second half of the alphabet.


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## Beaverton (Apr 17, 2003)

Its going to be basically 

van horn and eric williams 

for Sheed, possibly patterson

Allan Houston won't be going to Portland. 


I really pray and hope this rumor is to bait the Pistons into trading Milic


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

eric williams


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Good God No!!!!

I refuse to believe that PatterNash is this dumb. Why trade for 2 softies who will kill our cap and lead us to maby 8th or 7th seed in the playoffs?



Now, as i look at the NYK roster i see that Frank Williams and Sweetney are missing too...and that makes me feel a bit better



Wallace+Patterson for Houston, KVH, KThomas, Sweetney, Frank, and a 1st rounder i could maby live with..but probably not


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## jj9487 (Jun 2, 2003)

*lookin good...*

the knicks would be able to loose more salary cap in this case. Van Horn and HOuston are both maxed out. Also, I question if the Knicks would also be willing to lose yet another 1st round pick... 

this deal would do good for the knicks in the future, but isnt isiah trying to fix them now? i mean Wallace is a FA very soon....

i question this deal, but i would love it if the NYK got sheeed


GO KNICKS!!


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

why would the Blazers even think of doing this?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I just can't see trading Wallace for the prize of Van horn. Maybe Portland thinks that Van Horn can play the three and draw the defense out with his sharp shooting. Ugh, but if it didn't work Porland would be paying for it for a long time.

Maybe there is a three way deal in the works with Detroit. It does appear that the rumors are flying, but that could do with all the snow we have in Portland/TROUTDALE right now.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I would not love a trade of Patterson and Wallace for KVH, Kurt Thomas, Frankie and Sweetney and a future 1st, but i could see us getting worse offers...

IMO it is about equal in fairness as the Big Z and Miles trade


KVH is a very similar player to Wallace. He is younger, a better long range shooter and about the same at rebounding. Their bbiggest difference is KVH cant guard a rock.


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## FB (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> KVH is a very similar player to Wallace. He is younger, a better long range shooter and about the same at rebounding. Their bbiggest difference is KVH cant guard a rock.


In all fairness to Keith, though, The Rock is a pretty muscular guy.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> 
> 
> Houston and Doleac are still there, but Van Horn (and Sweetney, Thomas, Frank Williams) are not. It looks to me like someone just screwed up and forgot the second half of the alphabet.


That's what it looks like to me as well, unless New York decided to trade every player on their roster with a last name starting with O-Z.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Aurelino</b>!
> why would the Blazers even think of doing this?


Thinking about doing something dumb isn't quite like doing something dumb. I've walked by banks and had the passing thought of what robbing one would be like, but I've never acted on that in any way. It's the GM's job to explore the possibilities, but that doesn't really mean anything is going down. Here's Blazer GM Nash from today's Oregonian...

Blazers general manager John Nash confirmed he talked "several times" with new Knicks president Isiah Thomas, but said the two did just that -- talk. "As a matter of course, you bring up everybody's names and discuss them back and forth," Nash said. "We're open to talking about everybody on the roster, but we're not any closer to making a trade nor are we any closer to making a final decision." 

I'd bet these sorts of feeling out discussions happen nearly every day of the year, us mere fans just don't hear about it very often.

STOMP


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Beaverton</b>!
> Its going to be basically
> 
> van horn and eric williams
> ...


Eric Williams is a Cav. Frank Williams makes very little and the salaries won't work.

-Petey


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

The deal improves character, but it doesn't help PDX in terms of salary. Both Houston and Van Horn have large contracts. 

btw - You guys complain about the Blazers defense now...imagine this lineup:

PG: Damon
SG: Houston
SF: Van Horn
PF: Randolph
C: Davis

:dead: :dead:


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

cuz a GM says something isnt happening doesnt mean that the truth he wants his team to keep playing.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> 
> It looks to me like someone just screwed up and forgot the second half of the alphabet.


I think you are right, but the missing names wouldn't be all that unrealistic. 

I can't see us picking up the long term contracts. The only reason I could see it is if they decided they really want to clean up the character issues. Replacing Sheed and Rube with KVH and Houston would certainly do it. Of course our points against would be up to about 135 per game, but we could hit the outside shot.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Beaverton</b>!
> http://www.nba.com/knicks/roster/
> 
> check out the roster.
> ...


I noticed that this morning too when I was looking up Frank Williams



I think we need Frank Williams too


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

someone take a look at Matt "The People's 6th man" Carroll, and you'll see the people's eye-brow..


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mixum</b>!
> hearing that this deal is on the table and agreed to in principle by both sides:
> 
> PDX trades: Wallace, Patterson, and Anderson to NYK for: Houston, Van Horn, Doleac, and a first round pick
> ...




WFAN is no source for any rumor.. they just make it up like our 910 the fan people do

Those salaries do not even match up


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>
> someone take a look at Matt "The People's 6th man" Carroll, and you'll see the people's eye-brow..


He would look good in a Blazer uniform

The peoples team... Blazers


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: blazers and knicks deal looks close*



> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> 
> WFAN is no source for any rumor.. they just make it up like our 910 the fan people do
> 
> Those salaries do not even match up


The salaries do match, at least according to RealGM. 
(You have been assigned Trade ID number 1392367)

I doubt it happens because of the length of Houston's contract.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I wounder what it would take for us to get Frank Williams and Sweetney.....I really like both of these guys


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

It is clear that Nash is talking to the Knicks. So, since Houston and KVH don't fit into the financial policies for the future team, who is left to discuss? 

How about this:

Portland trades: 
C Vladimir Stepania (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes) 
Portland receives: 
PG Frank Williams (4.9 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 33 games) 


TRADE ACCEPTED

Ah the simplicity. This could happen on Jan 22nd. Has anyone watched Frank Williams play? Any comments?


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: blazers and knicks deal looks close*



> Originally posted by <b>Gym Rat</b>!
> The salaries do match, at least according to RealGM.


I should have checked before I opened my mouth. I had no idea Van Horn made all that much money... Houston I knew... just Van Horn and Houston would make it work... Add in Doleac and a pick and it still does.

I think they need to add Frank Williams too...


We did waive Carroll and Dickens today... prelude to a trade? maybe.. just getting rid of guarnteed $ possibilities I think


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: blazers and knicks deal looks close*



> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> 
> 
> I should have checked before I opened my mouth. I had no idea Van Horn made all that much money... Houston I knew... just Van Horn and Houston would make it work... Add in Doleac and a pick and it still does.
> ...


You know, the New York Knicks do have the highest payroll in the league... the money has to paid to someone, why not VanHorn?



I still don't think Portland takes on those contacts. 3 more seasons for Houston and Van Horn has 1 more season with a PLAYER option for the next season.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> I wounder what it would take for us to get Frank Williams and Sweetney.....I really like both of these guys


How about this:


Portland trades: 
PG Jeff McInnis (12.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.6 apg in 33.0 minutes) 
SF Qyntel Woods (4.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 13.7 minutes) 
Portland receives: 
PF Mike Sweetney (1.2 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11 games) 
C Michael Doleac (4.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 30 games) 
PG Frank Williams (4.9 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 33 games) 


TRADE ACCEPTED


Portland gets fresh air at the point, another backup center (like we need it) and an undersized PF with potential. NY gets a combo guard and promising swing man. Don't worry Knicks fans, I don't think they smoke pot in NYC. I'm sure people will be polarized on this one, but I think this looks relatively even.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Trading with the Knicks? Are we really that stupid? Does Thomas have pictures of Nash or something? There's absolutely nothing on the Knick roster that isn't useless and/or overpaid, aside from Marbury who we obviously aren't getting.

barfo


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Reep</b>!
> 
> 
> How about this:
> ...


No thanks.



> Portland gets fresh air at the point,


I would, of course, rather trade Damon. I like Williams, and, with his youth, he might even be an upgrade over McInnis, but I don't think the rest of the trade is worth it.



> another backup center (like we need it)


As you said, we already have enough of those.



> and an undersized PF with potential.


We also already have a pretty good young one of those in Zach.



> NY gets a combo guard


Our taller one at that.



> and promising swing man.


Qyntel has shown some pretty nice flashes when he has been given enough minutes.



> Don't worry Knicks fans, I don't think they smoke pot in NYC. I'm sure people will be polarized on this one, but I think this looks relatively even.


I'm not so sure.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> Trading with the Knicks? Are we really that stupid? Does Thomas have pictures of Nash or something? There's absolutely nothing on the Knick roster that isn't useless and/or overpaid, aside from Marbury who we obviously aren't getting.


I wonder if anyone's ever given New York GMs a taste of their own medicine, like calling them incessantly with ridiculous proposals..."Hey, we'll give you Stoudamire straight up for Marbury. You'll finally get that point guard you've needed for so long. Didn't you like the guy in Toronto? He won you a Rookie of the Year. Plus, Damon's a winner...he's been to two Western Conference Finals. Marbury's never made it out of the first round."

Call Thomas at dinner time. That'll drive him nuts.


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

*Williams may be going to Cleveland*

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/152650p-134395c.html



> CLEVELAND - Frank Williams, the one-time point guard of the future, may soon be a thing of the past.
> 
> With Stephon Marbury running the offense, it means fewer, and possibly no minutes for Williams, who was promoted into the starting lineup just two weeks ago. But with Marbury now the starter, Moochie Norris a backup and even Penny Hardaway capable of playing the point, the Knicks, according to a league official, are looking to trade Williams.
> 
> ...


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

If i got Frankie and Sweetney, i would not give up Woods in the deal...


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

This deal won't happen... It can't, it just can't. KVH is a sucker.


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## Discovery69 (Nov 7, 2002)

Could be a false alarm with Sacramento's team roster also gone except for Bibby.... so it maybe a glitch with the NY website or maybe not:

Portland - NY - Cleveland Trade ID number 1392645 
*Rasheed Wallace & Darius Miles to New York 
Keith Van Horn, Ruben Patterson, Mike Sweetney to Cleveland 
Zydrunas Illgauskas, Kurt Thomas, Frank Williams & Cleveland's 1st rd pick to Portland *


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Isiah reminds me of a guy playing fantasy basketball.

One guy in my league only has 6 of the 15 players he drafted left on his team. He's made 4 trades in 10 weeks.

Anyhoooo....here's my trade idea for NY, since I want nothing to do with Van Horn and his bloated contract:

Portland sends Patterson and RBB to NY

NY sends Thomas and Williams to Portland


No, I don't really expect Isiah to accept that offer - at least, not if he's thinking clearly. But maybe, just maybe, Nash can catch him in a fit of "trade fury", when all Isiah can think about is, "Gotta make a trade, gotta make a deal..."

Perhaps having tasted of the sweet nectar of trade-making, Isiah is now addicted to the rush. If so, I say use his weakness against him.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Possible NY trade???*

Our resident detective, GB, noticed that a good chunk of the Knicks roster is missing off of the official website.

From there, we have been engaging in wild and wanton speculation, including a possible Blazers trade.

What does Rip city think?

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71310&forumid=27


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

The only player I like from NY is Frank Williams, he can be a really good point guard soon.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Started another thread -- didn't see this one. Merged.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

User Darius Miles Davis proposes this trade:



> New York trades: PG Frank Williams (4.9 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 13.8 minutes)
> PF Mike Sweetney (1.2 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5.1 minutes)
> C Kurt Thomas (11.3 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 33.4 minutes)
> SF Keith Van Horn (17.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.7 apg in 34.9 minutes)
> ...


I find it interesting...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> Isiah reminds me of a guy playing fantasy basketball.
> 
> Anyhoooo....here's my trade idea for NY, since I want nothing to do with Van Horn and his bloated contract:


I think moving Van Horn is Thomas' #1 motivation to make another move, not just because of the contract but because of the bad blood between KVH and Starbury


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> I think moving Van Horn is Thomas' #1 motivation to make another move, not just because of the contract but because of the bad blood between KVH and Starbury


It makes all the sense in the world for Isiah to want to deal Van Horn. It makes no sense to me why Portland would trade Rasheed for him.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

Portland trades: 

PG Damon Stoudamire
(12.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.9 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
C Dale Davis
(6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes) 

Portland receives: 

SF Keith Van Horn
(17.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.7 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
C Kurt Thomas
(11.3 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 33.4 minutes) 
PF Othella Harrington
(4.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.9 minutes) 
PG Frank Williams
(4.9 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 13.8 minutes) 

Change in team outlook: +18.4 ppg, +10.1 rpg, and -0.8 apg.


New York trades: 

SF Keith Van Horn
(17.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.7 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
C Kurt Thomas
(11.3 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 33.4 minutes) 
PF Othella Harrington
(4.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.9 minutes) 
PG Frank Williams
(4.9 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 13.8 minutes) 

New York receives: 

PG Damon Stoudamire
(12.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.9 apg in 32 games) 
C Dale Davis
(6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 31 games) 

Change in team outlook: -18.4 ppg, -10.1 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

We would like to trade Damon, IT wants to trade KVH, here is my first attempt at making it happen. Comments?


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gambitnut</b>!
> Portland trades:
> 
> PG Damon Stoudamire
> ...


Replacing Davis and Thomas with Patterson and Doleac also works if you think that makes more sense.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gambitnut</b>!
> 
> 
> Replacing Davis and Thomas with Patterson and Doleac also works if you think that makes more sense.


I think this might be a better idea. I'd be a little nervous about relying on K. Thomas to man the middle in the West as a starter. With the Patterson/Doleac version we keep DD at center with Doleac as backup.

The big problem here is that Damon comes off the books sooner, and I don't think Natterson will taken on longer contracts like KVH. As much as I would love to get rid of Damon soon, there is a good chance the Bobcats will take him, and if not, then he will be valuable trade bate next year to a team wanting to reduce cap space.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mixum</b>!
> hearing that this deal is on the table and agreed to in principle by both sides:
> 
> PDX trades: Wallace, Patterson, and Anderson to NYK for: Houston, Van Horn, Doleac, and a first round pick


BTW, that trade pick would be - at the earliest - their 2006 pick. They've already traded their 2004 pick to Phoenix, and league rules prohibit you from not holding at least one draft pick in two consecutive years. Meaning that they cannot trade their 2005 pick.

It's also conceivable that the conditional pick that NY traded to Phoenix was their 2006 pick. Meaning that the pick in the scenario that *mixum* brought up would be their 2008 pick - or even later.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*The only reason*

A deal would make sense for Portland is if it upgraded Portland's weak back court. Ptown is doomed as long as Damon and Jeff are the two point guards here. Sick of seeing the opposing team's guards go for career nights against Portland? Get somebody better then those two on the floor.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

i know that Portland, need shooters, but why would they want to take on two long term contracts in Houston, and VanHorn. Especially because Zak isnt a supurb passer out of the post, sheed would do a better job. 

Its not really making sense for the blazers atm


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Maybe Portland just feels the need to make Isiah and the Knicks a playoff team in just under two weeks.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I just do not see any players on NY I really am very fond of for them getting Sheed.

Now if they want to include NJ as a third team. I would still be interested in Kittles. I am sure some of this NY roster can be dealt back to NJ.

Or Memphis as a third team... Mike Miller and Battier

Others... Detroit, Cleveland, Atlanta, Clippers.... all have more fitting players we need.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Now THAT would be an awesome deal for Portland!

A. We get a great outside shooter
B. We get Keith who is close to Rasheed in production but - the headaches and attitude.
C. Doleac is still young and has room to improve
D. That would give us THREE first round draft picks! Perhaps all lottery picks!


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Ironically, KVH and Rasheed look almost identical on paper.

Size, weight, year drafted, PPG all almost identical! However Van Horn has a slight advantage in FG%, 3P%, FT% and rebounding.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: Re: blazers and knicks deal looks close*



> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> BTW, that trade pick would be - at the earliest - their 2006 pick. They've already traded their 2004 pick to Phoenix, and league rules prohibit you from not holding at least one draft pick in two consecutive years. Meaning that they cannot trade their 2005 pick.
> ...


They still have their 2nd round pick in '05, don't they? The blazers traded like 2 or 3 consecutive 1st rounders to get the incomparable Damon Stoudamire.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

PDX trades: Wallace, Patterson, and Anderson to NYK for: Houston, Van Horn, Doleac, and a first round pick

Well... I (for one it looks like) like this trade. I love Houston, I like Van Horn (though he is a bit soft), Doleac is a decent center, 1st rounder is icing. 

I don't give hoot about salaries or longterm contracts... I am not paying the bills! There is no WAY we get under the cap with a sucky team and some super free agent wants to come to the black hole of endorsements-land, Portland. Anderson is on the books for a few more years at a decent salary too.

I agree, we have some horrid D there... but oh well... either way we are not going anywhere anytime soon.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> Now THAT would be an awesome deal for Portland!
> 
> A. We get a great outside shooter
> ...


Um. I disagree on almost all points. I guess I can't disagree with point A., because Houston IS a good shooter. But the rest?

Doleac room to improve? He's 26 and has been playing in the NBA steadily for over five years. It's entirely possible he'll improve SOME but he's a known commodity. A known commodity that hasn't started on bad Knicks teams in his time in NY.

Keith's production relative to Rasheed? KVH does not command double teams. He does not have the post-up game that Rasheed does. He might be a slightly superior outside shooter, but he's not THAT much better than Wallace. Rebounding is a wash. Defense is not, though. KVH is one of the worst defenders in the whole NBA, and Rasheed is at least above average, and maybe even significantly better than that.

Three lottery picks is not going to happen. As SCBF pointed out, the Knicks don't have a 1st rounder next year and they can't trade their first next year, either. 

Other than making the team worse and increasing the pasty factor, I don't see anything coming out of the trade, and I can't imagine that Nash is dumb enough to even contemplate it.

Ed O.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

The only way i would do this trade is if it was Wallace, Patterson, DA for Houston, KVH, KThomas, Frankey, Sweetney and a future pick 


I mean, we may actually make the playoffs with a roster of...

PG-J.McInnis/F.Williams
SG-A.Houston/D.Stoudamire/Q.Woods
SF-K.Van Horn/W.Person/Q.Woods
PF-Z.Randolph/M.Sweetney
C-K.Thomas/D.Davis

We would have the depth that we usta be know for back....


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> The only way i would do this trade is if it was Wallace, Patterson, DA for Houston, KVH, KThomas, Frankey, Sweetney and a future pick
> 
> 
> ...


Wouldn't it be easier just to become a Knick fan? Then you'd have those guys (except Zach) and Marbury too.

Seems to me taking the majority of the Knick starters and putting them on the Blazers is likely to make us about as good as the Knicks. Which as far as I can tell is even worse than we are now.

barfo


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Reep</b>!
> 
> 
> I think this might be a better idea. I'd be a little nervous about relying on K. Thomas to man the middle in the West as a starter. With the Patterson/Doleac version we keep DD at center with Doleac as backup.


The second one would also be better for PR. Do you think the Knicks would go for either of them?



> The big problem here is that Damon comes off the books sooner, and I don't think Natterson will taken on longer contracts like KVH. As much as I would love to get rid of Damon soon, there is a good chance the Bobcats will take him, and if not, then he will be valuable trade bate next year to a team wanting to reduce cap space.


When I made that trade at RealGM, I saw that KVH is only signed for one year longer than Damon and Harrington and either Thomas or Doleac are all signed for the same length as Damon. That doesn't sound too bad to me.


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## Ukrainefan (Aug 1, 2003)

Here's a trade both gm's might like:

Portland trades Rasheed Wallace, Dale Davis, Ruben Patterson, Derek Anderson and Qyntel Woods.

New York trades Allen Houston, Keith Van Horn, mike Doleac, Kurt Thomas and Frank Williams, possibly also rights to Milos Vujanic.

This trade is accepted by realgm, at least without Vujanic included.

For Portland this could get rid of a lot of problems all in one trade: Rasheed, patterson, chronically injured Anderson, unhappy underachieving, aging Dale Davis, and Qyntel Woods who seems to lack basketball smarts and is rumored to be a bad influence on Zach.
Either Thomas or Doleac may be more of a true center than Davis and Van Horn would be a true small forward. 
Between Williams and Vujanic maybe a good point guard would develope in a year or two. True, it seems our defense would suffer but can it really get worse than it is?

For New York I think Isiah feels he can relate to Rasheed and Woods and develope them into stars like Jermaine O'Neal. He gets rid of Van Horn who he definitely doesn't want and gets rid of Houston's big contract. Maybe he thinks he can help Davis find his intensity that he had when playing with the Pacers.

I'm not excited about this trade but maybe it would help get people back in the stands and eventually we would be a better team.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

The rights to Milos Vujanic were traded to Phoenix in the Starbury deal.

Nothing in the Knicks package makes dealing Rasheed Wallace palatable.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> Nothing in the Knicks package makes dealing Rasheed Wallace palatable.


Truer words have not been written in this thread. 

While there are interesting players on the Knicks, I wouldn't want to trade Wallace for any of them. 

If there were ways to unload Stoudamire for Allan Houston, or someway to get Kurt Thomas without giving up Wallace, Randolph, or Dale Davis, then we're getting somewhere. But I want no part of Keith Van Horn, and certainly not at the price of Rasheed Wallace.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I like the deal. We get three character guys. We get a better shooting guard than we now have. We get a real small forward. And all three can shoot. They are all good complements to Randolph.

Damon, Houston, Van Horn, Randolph, Doleac is a good starting lineup. Woods, McInnis, Person, Davis ain't a bad bench.

Houston (one of the few players to ever hit a series winning shot) and Van Horn have Finals experience and are both gentlemen who do their jobs like professionals with respect for the game.

Plus, we get a draft pick? That gives us three picks in June? I love it.

I would miss Sheed dearly. I would miss Patterson too. But if we have to deal them, this is the way to go.

Go Blazers


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

But Houstons contract is HUGE, wouldnt they be almost backtracking?


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## BrooklynBaller (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Damon, Houston, Van Horn, Randolph, Doleac is a good starting lineup.


And on the defensive end? Does this group look like it could hold opponents under 120 pts. per game??


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Houston played good defense SEVERAL years with the Knicks, all the way to the NBA Finals from the 8th seed he did.

And Van Horn played good enough D to get the Finals too.

There's not a team in the league that gives up 120 a game and this team wouldn't do that either. 

I'll tell you this though. This team could score 100 a night.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

What is New Yorks 1 round pick projected to be? Do you think that they and Memphis could help us out with lottery picks? I almost think that we might end up there, but Houston and Van Horn might be the shake up that Portland needs.

Man, it is kinda scary to think about isn't it, Houston doesn't scare me it is the whole Van Horn thing. Will there be any defense on Portlands starting five, any at all?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Houston played good defense SEVERAL years with the Knicks, all the way to the NBA Finals from the 8th seed he did.
> 
> And Van Horn played good enough D to get the Finals too.
> ...


True, it is just scary to think about.


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## Swoosh (May 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> I like the deal. We get three character guys. We get a better shooting guard than we now have. We get a real small forward. And all three can shoot. They are all good complements to Randolph.
> 
> Damon, Houston, Van Horn, Randolph, Doleac is a good starting lineup. Woods, McInnis, Person, Davis ain't a bad bench.
> ...


If a deal did go down with NY, there would not be a first round pick coming to PDX (at least not for several years). NY already traded their 1st round pick to PHX in the Marbury deal, and league rules prohibit teams from trading their 1st round picks in consecutive years. PHX also received another conditional first rounder which would be in 2006 at the earliest. In that case, NY would get their 2007 first rounder, leaving the first available pick in trade to be 2008. Therefore, if a pick were involved in a PDX trade, the earliest we would get it would be 2008.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> 
> Damon, Houston, Van Horn, Randolph, Doleac is a good starting lineup. Woods, McInnis, Person, Davis ain't a bad bench.


I guess we differ significantly in our appraisals of those players. Stoudamire, Houston, Van Horn, Randolph and Doleac look like possibly the worst starting lineup in the West. Doleac has no business starting, let alone at center in the West. Stoudamire has no business starting at all.

Van Horn is just a straight downgrade from Wallace. Houston provides some outside shooting, but not a player who can be counted on to get his own shot regularly. This team does not have the passing to find Houston for open shots.

I'd take the Warriors starting five, healthy, over that starting five.

And, also, are we all aware that Van Horn has a *max contract*? Which doesn't expire at the end of this season. Houston has one of the worst deals in the game, and it also doesn't expire soon. We're getting worse *and* more expensive.

Character ain't worth that.


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## blazerfan4life (Dec 31, 2002)

I see no one on the Knicks roster i want...our #1 needs are

A true center
A point guard
A shooting guard
A small forward

we are ok at Power Forward with ZACH ATTACK

but we are in need of the others and i don't see anyone on the Knicks that can help us


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

I used to lobby hard for Portland to get Houston.

Of course, that was three years ago. Now he's 31 years old (he turns 32 in April) with a contract that pays him $57 million for 3 years after this one. In other words, pretty much guaranteeing that the Blazers won't be a major FA player until 2007.

No thanks. Not at that price. Not for a jump shooter (a great one, but a jump shooter just the same) in his 30's.

I've also made my thoughts known about KVH elsewhere, but I'll repeat them here - 

NO! NO! NO!


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Listen to Mistrel and SCBF.... this is not a good deal for us, and it handicaps us in the future cap wise. We do not want those contracts on our books.

Houston is still a great shooter, and I would love to have him on our team, but not at that price or length of contract. You saw what hot outside shooting did for Seattle from Ray Allen the other night.

I would argue we are alright on Offense with Zach, but defensively who is going to guard the Duncans, Garnett, etc...

and I would wonder if Sheed not being there to draw the defense away from Randolph, would hinder Zach. He might not do well with constant double teaming on him


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