# Knicks FIX



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

it cant get much worse...or can it????

Here is my starting lineup

marbury
Demmar Johnson
Deke
KT
TT

We despertly need some interior D....Hopefully Deke has found the fountain of youth and Wilkens wakes up and realises NAZ is NOT the answer on D....

You have to bench Shandon..He just has NO perimeter game,and leaves marbury trapped and double teamed....Yeah,he made a couple of layups..that is all he has

Does this Trybanski have any game whatsoeevr???Is there a chance he develops into anything over time????


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> it cant get much worse...or can it????
> 
> Here is my starting lineup
> ...


Trybanski is very, very raw. He is better than Slavko Vranes though. May not ever play for the Knicks again IMO.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

Not trying to be an *** but seeing that lineup just reinforces just how bad of a defensive team we are. Deke can't guard a corpse, TT won't, Dermarr doesn't know how, and the other two guys will get burned trying to cover up for the others. I don't have a solution, I still believe the team is way unbalanced. Really disappointd in TT last night. No leadership, no heart, and no big effort in what had to be one of the biggest games of the year. Not singling him out to be a jerk but if he is to be the #1 or #2 guy, then he HAS to step up and provide those qualities. First major opportunity in a crucial game and he came up small, IMO.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

What would you know about Trybanski? He has played like 2 minutes for the Knicks, and it's clear that neither of you follow basketball outside of NY. How do you know if Trybanski is better than Vranes?

Let's also keep in mind that Trybanski is making a million+ this season and next, while Vranes made the league minimum.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> What would you know about Trybanski? He has played like 2 minutes for the Knicks, and it's clear that neither of you follow basketball outside of NY. How do you know if Trybanski is better than Vranes?
> 
> Let's also keep in mind that Trybanski is making a million+ this season and next, while Vranes made the league minimum.


[strike]Shutup already. What would you know of talent? Seeing as you love Eisley and Layden so much you know nothing...[/strike]

Do not make fun of other posts, do not belittle other posters, please review the board guidelines before being suspended or banned. If you have a problem with another poster in this forum feel free to contact Fordy74, Rynobot or myself. *Petey


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>alphadog</b>!
> Really disappointd in TT last night. No leadership, no heart, and no big effort in what had to be one of the biggest games of the year. Not singling him out to be a jerk but if he is to be the #1 or #2 guy, then he HAS to step up and provide those qualities. First major opportunity in a crucial game and he came up small, IMO.


Alpha, be fair. That may have been the first opportunity YOU decided to give him. He has been crucial in other important games, but you preferred not to see it. The Blazers and Bucks game are a couple that come to mind, but there were others.

And I checked the clutch section of 82games to compare TT to VH. I'm not going to post extensively on it, and I assume perhaps Rashidid didn't also, for two reasons. 1) I believe it's still based on too small a sample size to really be meaningful. 2) it doesn't really favor one player over another enough to embolden either side. VH is better in rebs and blocks, while TT is better offensively.

I'm not going to go out on a limb and say that favors one over the other, but you have to shake this mythical image you have of VH making 80% of his shots and rising huge in the clutch. It just ain't so.

Now that game sucked, and it was TT's worst as a Knick, but wasn't it you who said not to judge on just one game?


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Seeing as you love Eisley and Layden so much you know nothing...


Howard Eisley > Frank Williams

Scott Layden > Jim Dolan

That's pretty much the only arguments I've made for each person. It's funny how the only thing you do nowadays is follow me around, and cry about Howard Eisley. Do you have nothing better to do? Or does it sting that people here think you're even less credible than I am (despite my alleged love for scott layden)? Regardless, please heed your own words. Which were something like "I'm done talking to you unless I'm going to prove you wrong". Since you have done little over the past 2 months besides follow me and make badly thought out flammatory comments, I think a reality check is in order for you. You are a Hypocrite. Plain and simple. Since you obviously personally dislike me, why would you bother wasting your time with me? Seems rather silly and childish. Though I guess I can understand where you're coming from on the latter.

Is this needed? Next time please pm either the other member, attempt to work things out or pm Rynobot, Fordy74 of myself. *Petey


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Howard Eisley > Frank Williams
> ...


[strike]Wow what a pathetic piece of crap you are. Follow you around? You are everywhere, and you posted in this topic without me referring to you. Childish?[/strike] You think age makes a difference from knowing talent? Howard Eisley>Frank Williams. [strike]No point in arguing this as you are a clueless fool who refuses to listen to any argument. I did say I wasn't going to talk to you, your right. But I saw your posts become more and more disgraceful that I needed to make a point. And clearly I'm not the only one here that doesn't seem to like or respect you. If you earned some credibility and some love for the Knicks maybe I wouldn't talk to you or ague with you as much.[/strike] And your arguments aren't Layden better than Dolan or Eisley better than Williams. They are far more than that and you know it. [strike]Like I've said before, go crawl back from the hole you came from seeing as you've been hibernating[/strike] for 3 years while Layden was losing with overpaid, useless, untalented, and old players and you come here and praise him like he is God. For the last time, [strike]shutup[/strike] about your hate for the Knicks, Marbury and Isiah Thomas and you take MY reality check. [stike]You have no knowledge of the game and I don't care if your 80. If you seriously think Layden is so good than you must be in a dream land.[/strike] And Eisley? Oh yeah I bother you about him. Why? Because you said yourself he is better yet you always seem to diss Marbury after having a bad game and never, EVER dissed Eisley for having a bad game EVERY single time. [strike]Get your head out of your *** and learn some common sense and how to carry on a normal conversation and an argument before putting down people half your age you pitiful human....[/strike]

*Once again, do not make fun of other posts, do not belittle other posters, please review the board guidelines before being suspended or banned. If you have a problem with another poster in this forum feel free to contact Fordy74, Rynobot or myself. *Petey*


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> What would you know about Trybanski


rashidi,does he have any game whatsoever????


any hope??


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>alphadog</b>!
> Really disappointd in TT last night. No leadership, no heart, and no big effort in what had to be one of the biggest games of the year. Not singling him out to be a jerk but if he is to be the #1 or #2 guy, then he HAS to step up and provide those qualities. First major opportunity in a crucial game and he came up small, IMO.


Alpha, not trying to single you out either, but I just keep analyzing this TT vs VH trade and keep coming up with stuff to show a parallelism. I even ask Rashidi, TT's greatest foe next to you, for damning stats, but they just don't seem to be there.

Here's the most recent thing I've looked at. I thought what amount of scoring is the threshold of unacceptable from either VH or TT. I chose 10 or below. I also thought it fair to remove any games where they played 12 mins or less. Then I counted for the entire 03-04 regular season so far:

TT = 19 total, minus 4 which were 12 mins or less = 15

VH = 17 total, minus 2 which were 12 mins or less = 15

That's equal in what is said by many to be Van Horn's best year. Both players had a groin injury and both players had a hyperextended arm. 

Now don't say TT played 4 games with 12 mins or less to VH's 2, and tell me that means VH is more durable. What that shows is TT tried to play hurt. TT started 59 of 60 games while VH started 62 of 67.

Now maybe it is worthwhile to look at 82games crunch stats. Here are both players as Knicks:

VH:
http://www.82games.com/03NYK11E.HTM

TT:
http://www.82games.com/03NYK10E.HTM

If possible, open each in it's own window and compare side by side. Here are some things that stand out to me.

Let's work our way down.

When VH is on the floor in crunch time his team is net zero. When TT is in the team is net +10.

So if you go into crunch time tied, and VH plays, you can expect to end tied. If you play TT, you can expect to go up 10.

On a per 48 min basis TT made 13.1 fg of 24.5 for a fg% = .533. TT has scored a whopping 55.6 in crunch on a per 48 min basis! That's 55.6 pts per 48 mins on .533 shooting!

VH made 1.5 of 10.1 for a fg% of .154, scoring only 17.8 in crunch on a per 48 min basis. That's 17.8 pts per 48 on .154 shooting.

Got that?

VH chucks in the crunch with 92% of his attempts jumpers, with 25% of them blocked for an effective FG % of .167. ALL of his close attempts were blocked, for a 0FG%. His overall inside eFG% is zero. 

That is aweful.

TT shoots 80% jumpers, of which 17% were blocked, for an eFG% of .667. 20% of his shots were close of which NONE were blocked, for a .667 fg%. His inside eEFG% is .400.

That's good.

Who'd you want taking crunch shots? TT, who'll be in the range of .667 - .400... or VH, who'll be .167 - .000?

Looking at FT shooting and Foul Drawing, VH gets a higher total % ranking, by having drawn slightly more fouls per FG attempt, but he converts them at a lower rate.

Passing stats: TT is far better but it looks to be a small sample size.

Rebounding: no surprise, VH is better. But again, small sample size. For instance, if TT get's one offensive rebound it might shoot him over VH in that departemnt. I know you think VH is a monster offensive rebounder, but like everything in crunch time, he's weak. In clutch time he's nabbed 1 of 53 chances.

Ditto for turnovers and blocks, too small a sample size to be relevant. A look at normal time might be more meaningful, and there VH has been a slightly better blocker but TT a far better ballhandler.

So as much as you may love VH and dislike TT, please don't tell me that VH is a better clutch player, or more consistent, or better when it counts.. whatever... unless you have some evidence to back up your claims. Otherwise it's *purely* emotional mythology on your part.

My evidence shows VH to disappear at essentially the same rate as TT, but as a Knick, TT has been a FAR better clutch scorer than VH.

FAR.

I'd even go so far as to say TT has been an excellent clutch performer while VH has sucked.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Now don't say TT played 4 games with 12 mins or less to VH's 2, and tell me that means VH is more durable. What that shows is TT tried to play hurt. TT started 59 of 60 games while VH started 62 of 67.


Huh? It shows that TT got injured DURING the games. VH played hurt plenty of times this year, and he did so in more than 12 minutes. Also, one of the games VH played 12 mins against was the Clippers. Lenny went with Penny and Shandon because the Clips use a 3 guard alignment. VH was not injured for that game. Also, VH came off the bench when he first got to Milwuakee, and not because he was hurt. I'll look over the rest later.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

That's all fine, I'm not here to argue over pennies and bits. They both played hurt. By subtracting out short-minute games I'm leveling the field for both of them.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

OK..another big game last night and he follows up the last great effort with a 3/14(0-1 from 3), 4 boards against a guard, 3 assists, and 4 to....The Knicks win but he wasn't the reason or even really part of it. Don't even talk about non existent "d".

Save your stats...they are a helpful tool for making video games and to use as a starting point but as I have said and will continue to believe, there are far too many intricacies and non quantifiable variables to make a complete case. I also never said VH was a better clutch performer..I simply said TT is not. VH brings more to the table as far as offensive versatility(including offensive rebounds). Ask the fans in Milwaukee if they are pining for the return of TT yet. And BTW, whatever games TT played in that were big, none are as big than the games now.

Lets sum up, shall we? Two huge games against absolutely horrible teams....and what does he come up with?

8-29(29 pts on 27+% shooting)
1-6(3's on 17%)
5 rebounds
4 assists
5 to's

Against really crappy suquads (given the Nets injuries)


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

Cause we all know Richard Jefferson and the nets are horrible defenders *sarcasm*

Tim has been one of the few players playing good the last few weeks. Two bad games and your all over him. Yet nobody says anything when marbury constantly has bad shooting games in our losses.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

OK...I'll make it simple for you. TT is supposed to be an offensive force....he was shut down for two games now. If he is one of the better offensive SF in the league and RJ holds him to 5-15 and Salmons to 3-14, how do other lesser skilled SFs ever manage to score on these guys? If you watched the game you had to see what people have been saying right along in his career...he is not a take charge /leader type of guy. The pressure is off the next 2 games. Look for tt to soar and then flop against the Pacers and the Hornets..unless theere is no pressure to win these games(nothing at stake). I am hoping I'm wrong but there is history on my side.

TT aside, this team is way worse than it was. Before the trade they were playing great ball (both sides) and looked to be able to move up to 4th or 5th by the end of the season. They were allowing fewer points whi9le scoring much more.Forget the numbers..you know its true. Everybody was very optimistic here about our post season chances...go back and read the pre trade posts. Now we struggle to compete with bottom feeders. And Rashidi..I have not called you names nor have I insinuated anything other than you are seduced by your numbers games, and yet you make lewd and crude references to me?

"then get back to giving your new found college friend fellatio as he tells you stories about his Syracuse playing days."

I would guess you would not do that face to face unless you wanted to learn respect the hard way. I'm 6'4, 265 and I don't need to hide behind the anonymity of a computer screen. Don't expect me to return in kind, it digusts me and IS the type of post that could(and should) get you banned.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Alfa,this has to be the most bizzare season for a Knick fan ever...

In my mind,there was a stretch when Frank Williams was starting,and we were blowing guys out,by 15-20 and actually running the fast break...Its been downhill since then

This squad has been a dissapointment,and i dont know where to begin.....

H20 being out doesnt help..Dekes benching doesnt help either...Sometimes it appears that IT wants anything related to Layden out the door....

I think we have played our best ball with Deke in the lineup..I wonder if Lenny is going to play him...

Bottom line if we get into the playoffs,i am pleased...And before anyone jumps me,I was 100% behind nuking the knicks early on and playing our youth..But that was never an option


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> I insinuated anything other than you are seduced by your numbers games, and yet you make lewd and crude references to me?


Its true rashidi,Alfa has NEVER been anything but cordial to you...You and I have locked horns and gone back and forth,so as humorous as i found your statement,it should not have been referenced to Alfa...

Alfa,I apologise as I did find humor in his responce..Rashidi you should apologise to Alfa as well....


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

Wow, why doesn't Rashidi ever get reported? He's such a cool guy that he reports my posts because I show him up to the rest of the forum. You are a cool guy Rashidi.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Wow, why doesn't Rashidi ever get reported? He's such a bis loser that he reports my posts because I show him up to the rest of the forum. You are a disgrace Rashidi.


1. I don't report anybody, the moderators read all posts. If you want to go out of your way to attack me, you have to suffer the consequences like anybody else. You obviously haven't learned your lesson since you refer to me as a disgrace in the same post. Children like to learn the hard way I suppose.

2. One of my posts was edited by a moderator, genius.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

Since when do they read all the posts genius? I've seen worse insults not taken care of. Me, childish? Ahahaha. You come here to start arguments, not me. You come here to make fun of the Knicks and curse them in every post, then ask why people question your loyalty to the Knicks. If your not a Knick fan, leave. Or act like one. Easy as that.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

This must be a hilarious board to moderate.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

this is easily the roughest board on the forum...then again it is NYC


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

I actually thought they played their best ball with Mars, Houston, VH, KT, and Doleac. The ball moved quickly, they had enough speed to get SM and VH out on the break and SM had a shooter at every position to pass to plus work the pick and roll The d was better because everyone was hustling and helping out. I don't know what happened but Wilkins was the coach then, as well. These guys just don't mix well for some reason. I think Deke is a good situational player but he holds the ball and doesn't play good d on his man(too slow).


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Mars, Houston, VH, KT, and Doleac


is it fair to judge the team then,without H20???

Shandon Anderson has to be one of the worst offensive players i have ever seen...He is just brutal.....

And i do admit they were playing well then,but KT was unconscious if you remember..i dont think he missed a shot for 3 games


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>alphadog</b>!
> I would guess you would not do that face to face unless you wanted to learn respect the hard way. I'm 6'4, 265 and I don't need to hide behind the anonymity of a computer screen. Don't expect me to return in kind, it digusts me and IS the type of post that could(and should) get you banned.


Longley was 265 when he first came in the league despite his height is 7'2" but I considered him a fat ***.

So you with 265 lbs but only 6'4" Will you say the guy is a fuxking *** if u were me. Sorry, just going by logic here.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

No doubt that I am carrying an extra 25 or so but I am a pretty big guy. Fast hands and I can use them effectively. Bring it..


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

By the way...Shaq is shorter than Longley and weighs 370..is he fat?


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

It's not our Defense that much but our lack of scoring. We need that 20ppg from Houston and not that it's gone no one is delivering 30 a night or going from 8 points to 20....


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> No doubt that I am carrying an extra 25 or so but I am a pretty big guy. Fast hands and I can use them effectively. Bring it..


Rashidi's hands are also fast. But he didn't gain this attribute via masturbation, he gained it from always guarding the best perimeter player on the opposing team. And piano.

You keep talking about your weight as if it were a weapon. Unless we are going to play jail ball, your size is a double edged sword. For instance what you don't know about Rashidi, is that he is always the fastest player on the court. The player I most resemble would be a cross between Toni Kukoc and Allen Iverson. How are you going to stop me on defense if I can run circles around you? I'm an excellent perimeter defender, and you probably operate down low in the post. And vice versa. I doubt you can guard me on the perimeter. If Shaq and Iverson played one on one, it's not like either player would effectively be able to guard the other. Which is why one on one contests are silly really, especially since so many other skills (court vision, setting screens, help defense, etc) go untapped that it's a pretty inferior way to measure ability.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> No doubt that I am carrying an extra 25 or so but I am a pretty big guy. Fast hands and I can use them effectively. Bring it..


UMMMM,Rashidi,i think Alfa was implying he is 265 with fast hands,and would squash you like a bug:yes: 



> Rashidi's hands are also fast. But he didn't gain this attribute via masturbation, he gained it from always guarding the best perimeter player on the opposing team. And piano.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! No offense,but I would be happy just knowing how you acheived it and left out how you didnt achieve it..Thats more info than I need to know..But thanks for sharing that



> The player I most resemble would be a cross between Toni Kukoc and Allen Iverson


Did you take your happy pills today or do you likie warm weather..This is the most chipper and positive I have ever heard you.....Whats up????


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

Actually, I was replying to John, not rashidi. I'm sure that rashidi would beat me on the perimeter but I would hurt him in the pain lane . I shoot like Kiki, jump like Laimbeer, D up like TT (for you, Truth), and Post and Toast like Mchale. I, too have fast hands on the perimeter. Developed them by trying to strip the ball after my guy got by me. Defense? Thats why I pay taxes...so the military can do it..Just give me the damned ball.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I was actually getting a little nauseous watching TT play D last night...Though no nearly as bad as i felt watching DJ D up on Artest..What was Wilkens thinking???Got news for you Lenny,until Demarr puts on 20 -30 pounds hes a 2 guard.......



> I, too have fast hands on the perimeter. Developed them by trying to strip the ball after my guy got by me. Defense? Thats why I pay taxes...so the military can do it..Just give me the damned ball.


LMAO..that is HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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