# Clippers select Thornton



## MR. VADA

*Al Thornton goes to the Clippers*

two more pics...fingers crossed...heard what they said about kobe?


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## matador1238

*Re: nick is ours...*

Hope Hornets wont pick him....if they do, i think we should go with Stuckey. He might be the next Billups.


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## MR. VADA

*Re: nick is ours...*

how did young get picked before young???...vada


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

No Young! Thornton...please.


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## leidout

*Re: nick is ours...*

Julian Wright or Nick Young, i'm hoping we get Young, but can't go wrong either way..... Unless we choose Critteon.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

Crittenton please but I will be happy with Nick Young


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

Julian Wright would be great too...or Crittenton


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## MR. VADA

*Re: nick is ours...*

even if he's available we probably still gonna draft a 2nd rounder...vada


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

Damn, please don't let it be Young.


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## leidout

*Re: nick is ours...*

Wright to Charlotte... WE BETTER PICK NICK YOUNG!!!!


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## MR. VADA

*Re: nick is ours...*

even if he's available we probably still gonna draft a bench warmer...vada


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

Thornton should be the guy, it's a no-brainer to me.


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## MR. VADA

*Re: nick is ours...*

i'm down with you on this one leidout...vada


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## matador1238

*Re: nick is ours...*

Ok.....Nick Young we are picking.....but dont be surprised you hear a unknow from Europe...hahah


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

Please dont blow this pick


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## leidout

*Re: nick is ours...*



Showtime87 said:


> Thornton should be the guy, it's a no-brainer to me.


Stop giving us bad advice laker fan :azdaja:


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

Critt please!!!!


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

Hell Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## matador1238

*Re: nick is ours...*

Al Thornton!!!!!!


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

God damn it


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

Clippers Got It Right Guys!!!!


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## leidout

*Re: nick is ours...*

Arg!!


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

Reminds me of Wilcox all over again


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## clips_r_teh_wieners

*Re: nick is ours...*

good choice clippers!!! if not julian wright, thornton works just as well


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

No, this is the right pick. Watch this guy!


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## matador1238

*Re: nick is ours...*

Bye Bye Maggette....


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*



DaFranchise said:


> Reminds me of Wilcox all over again


Not Wilcox, much more skilled.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: nick is ours...*

I see Maggette already out the door after this pick. Damn, he was meant for Detroit.


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## nauticazn25

*Re: nick is ours...*

so does this mean we will trade maggette?


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

He's NBA ready people - 4 years at FSU - improved every year.


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## leidout

*Re: nick is ours...*

He's almost as old as Maggette already!!


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

Great we are going to have the worst guards in the league next year. Are we really going to rely on Sam?


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## Showtime87

*Re: nick is ours...*

They can address the backcourt via trade or free agency, Nick Young wasn't going to play PG anyway so what's the big deal? I'm impressed with this pick, they DID NOT screw up here.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

Its obvious that Dumbleavy hates this kind of athletic players. He dogged Wilcox and continues to keep Singleton on the bench. I dont even have to explain how he treated Maggs the past 2 years.


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## leidout

*Re: nick is ours...*



Showtime87 said:


> He's NBA ready people - 4 years at FSU - improved every year.


4 years playing with who??? nobody. We're boned. We got a scorer at the one position we don't need scoring.... Maggette/Thomas/Singleton.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*



Showtime87 said:


> They can address the backcourt via trade or free agency, Nick Young wasn't going to play PG anyway so what's the big deal? I'm impressed with this pick, they DID NOT screw up here.


Like who? Oh great our 2 PG's next season are going to be Sam and Will Conroy. Ouch!!!


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## leidout

*Re: nick is ours...*



Showtime87 said:


> They can address the backcourt via trade or free agency, Nick Young wasn't going to play PG anyway so what's the big deal? I'm impressed with this pick, they DID NOT screw up here.


Nick Young wasn't supposed to be our PG, he was supposed to be the long term solution at SG. Then we'd only have to solve the PG situation with a trade. Now we're gonna have the oldest backcourt in basketball.


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## MicCheck12

*Re: nick is ours...*

Clippers should pick the best player available and thorton was it..Iam lovin this pick


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

We need so much help in the backcourt and this pick makes me sick to my stomach. Someone please tell me that we are not relying on Sam and crap as our PGs next season.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*



leidout said:


> Nick Young wasn't supposed to be our PG, he was supposed to be the long term solution at SG. Then we'd only have to solve the PG situation with a trade. Now we're gonna have the oldest backcourt in basketball.


Exactly.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*

I like Thornton but I dont like us taking him at 14 with Young and Critt available.


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## matador1238

*Re: nick is ours...*

It looks like we will trade Maggette. The roster is not set yet....


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## Weasel

*Re: nick is ours...*

I don't mind the pick. They didn't blow the pick. They took what they believed was the BPA. Blowing would be taking Belinei or Koppen, etc.


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## squeemu

*Re: nick is ours...*



DaFranchise said:


> We need so much help in the backcourt and this pick makes me sick to my stomach. Someone please tell me that we are not relying on Sam and crap as our PGs next season.


If a pick makes you sick to your stomach, you probably care too much about basketball...


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## leidout

*Re: nick is ours...*



squeemu said:


> If a pick makes you sick to your stomach, you probably care too much about basketball...


Or maybe his season tickets just dropped about 30% in value.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: nick is ours...*



squeemu said:


> If a pick makes you sick to your stomach, you probably care too much about basketball...


Of course, I am a die hard sports fan.


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## MicCheck12

*Re: nick is ours...*

I just want to see who pick Josh McRoberts :biggrin:


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## qross1fan

*Re: nick is ours...*



matador1238 said:


> Bye Bye Maggette....


Same thought which came to my mind


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## MR. VADA

*Clippers Select Thornton*

i know a lot of you are mad but al thornton was the best player available...don't get me wrong i'm from south central (like nick,so i probably wanted him more than some of you) but if you go by the numbers thornton could probably help us more or maybe not. **** age, he's a baller,( like myself, i've even played with jason heart...yeah he's from the hood too...)...BREAKING REPORT---phx just drafted rudy fernandez and they are about to trade him to portland...portland is the now...4-6 years from now...bling bling...can we trade dumblevy and baylor for pritchard and oden???...vada


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## MR. VADA

*Re: nick is ours...*

maggs is trade bait...thornton is his replacement. now singleton can get some time. when are you guys gonna realize that singleton is better than maggs. dumblevy couldn't play him cause he was making less than maggs...i love corey, but i hate him as a clipper because of the coach...as fans we have to deal with it...but thornton is a helluva pick...just watch, diaz, sofo this year or next, we'll be alright...most of yaw sound like punks that are afraid of adversity...i've been down with the clips longer that all of yaw...and i can tell by your posts...but, i love all of yaw...maybe we'll see each other at a game...vada


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## Weasel

*Re: Al Thornton goes to the Clippers*

http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/clippersdraft_07628.html



> “We are really excited to get Al Thornton,” Clippers Vice President of Basketball Operations Elgin Baylor said. “When it was our turn to draft, he was the first player on our list. We were pleased and surprised that he was there for us at number 14. He is a player who we believe will be able to come right in and play for us. He is a high-energy player, a shot-blocker and a scorer. We’re really excited to have him.”





> “As the draft transpired we had the opportunity to get a couple guys that we liked and he was there,” Clippers head coach Mike Dunleavy said. “It was a very jubilant room once that happened.”





> “He puts points on the board and shoots the ball well from distance,” Dunleavy said about Thornton. “Stats are of course one area that is great, but for me what is important is how hard he plays. Night in and night out his energy is off the charts. He is very aggressive and he competes all the time. We are very pleased.”


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Al Thornton goes to the Clippers*

maggs is outta here like georgie bushy next year...unless he turns dictator and holds america for hostage...but you didn't hear that from me...oh, and aliens are real you'll see in a couple of years...vada


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*

i love how you guy's changed the heading of my post...must mean i'm saing some real ****...VADA


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## Weasel

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*



MR. VADA said:


> i love how you guy's changed the heading of my post...must mean i'm saing some real ****...VADA


Sorry, it seemed off to say Young was the pick. I changed it since it seemed most were talking about Thornton here.


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*

So, i thought he was ours just like you did...if that was incorrect or goig out on a limb, so, if you don't like it, don't respond to it...damn weasle, i didn't think you were a weasle...vada


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## Starbury03

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*

Nick Young is going to a star in this league and the Clippers take a guy who doesnt have the potential but can play now. This is going to hurt them in the long run and going kill their success at as a franchise.


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## PAIDNFULL23

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*

Thornton is a good player, but just not for THIS TEAM. Nick Young should have been the pick. Thornton doesn't fit any of our needs. He isn't a PG or a scoring SG, he isn't a third big behind Kamen and EB, and he doesn't have a ton of potential, on top of that he is 25 years old. 

Singleton is a very similar player, so if the Clippers wanted someone like Thornton, they had him unrightfully buried on the bench, and Singleton is younger and has 2 years of NBA experience. What the **** are Dumbleavy and Baylor doing? It doesn't make sense.


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## yamaneko

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*



> “We are really excited to get Al Thornton,” Clippers Vice President of Basketball Operations Elgin Baylor said. “When it was our turn to draft, he was the first player on our list. We were pleased and surprised that he was there for us at number 14. He is a player who we believe will be able to come right in and play for us. He is a high-energy player, a shot-blocker and a scorer. We’re really excited to have him.”


Anyone have any good "BS" pictures? wow big time BS. hes going to come right in and play for us. Tell me oh el gin, who is he going to take minutes from? Hes not taking minutes from kaman since he cant play center. hes not taking minutes from Brand. I cant see him taking minutes from Thomas at PF. So that leaves SF. Maggette didnt even start most of the year, he came off of the bench. And theres no way thornton is ahead of maggtee on the depth chart. So if maggette is a bench player, where does that leave thornton who cant play SG? 

Nick Young meanwhile could have started on this team over mobley and at worst, have taken ALL of the backup SG minutes, and hopefully moved ahead of ross on the depth chart if maggette started againn.

Elgin, its time to retire.


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## yamaneko

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*

Singleton is younger? And he has three years of professional experience behind him? HOLY CRAP. Ive said it before and ill say it again, i think singleton is the better player. And singleton cant get off of the bench. Again i ask elgina: How does this guy fit into the team?


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## MR. VADA

*CLippers Select Thornton*

lick in ghetto terms has reference to "robbery"...in other words for us we got the steal of the draft...**** age, we gotta win now...vada


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## yamaneko

*Re: CLippers Select Thornton*

Vada, quit starting new threads about the same thing. We have threads already about it, this is the second or third ive had to merge already. 

In response to your thread, its far too early to say who got the steal of the draft. We wont know until after next year or possibly the year afte.r But perhaps youd like to elaborate on how you think thornton at his age, is all of a sudden going to become a 20+ 8 rebound guy on this team, because thats what would be required AT LEAST to be considered the steal of the draft at 14.


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## PAIDNFULL23

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*



yamaneko said:


> *Singleton is younger?* And he has three years of professional experience behind him? HOLY CRAP. Ive said it before and ill say it again, i think singleton is the better player. And singleton cant get off of the bench. Again i ask elgina: How does this guy fit into the team?


My bad, Singleton is 25 and Thornton is 23.


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## MR. VADA

lick is "ghetto" for robbery, come up, or let's make a deal and you come out on top...http://youtube.com/watch?v=irnnHLhsG34...vada


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Al Thornton is the likc!!!!!!!!!!!!*

you won't miss maggs...vada


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## yamaneko

*Re: CLippers Select Thornton*

whats the story on him, did he graduate a year late from high school? redshirt a year? If i would have gone to a 4 year college i would have graduated when i was 21, not almost 24.

Wasnt acie law a 5th year senior? At least a 4th year senior, and he barely turned 22.


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Al Thornton is the likc!!!!!!!!!!!!*

if the link doesn't work, type his name up and look for the 4:11 clip...vada


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## yamaneko

Vada again, this is now the third or fourth time ive had to merge your threads.


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## MicCheck12

vada just TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER....vada


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## Weasel

*Re: CLippers Select Thornton*



yamaneko said:


> whats the story on him, did he graduate a year late from high school? redshirt a year? If i would have gone to a 4 year college i would have graduated when i was 21, not almost 24.
> 
> Wasnt acie law a 5th year senior? At least a 4th year senior, and he barely turned 22.


I just learned he was a 5th year senior so I guess he was a red shirt his freshman year.


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## NOFX22

I always wondered what does redshirted means?


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## yamaneko

youre in college taking classes but youre not playing ball. It doesnt count toward your 4 years of eligibility. Youre allowed only one of these, unless you get a "medical" redshirt too when lets say you play in like one game, blow out your knee, but youve already used your redshirt..you can apply for a second "medical" redshirt year so you can play one more year. Thats more common in college football.


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## afobisme

OMG, vada is the next BS.


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## bootstrenf

seems like the only knock on al is his age...would you guys be this unhappy if he were 18-20ish??? i think we got the bpa, and like vada said, disregard age...not like he was a franchise player anyways...


and the fact that we didn't take a guard might mean that our backcourt situation isn't as bad as we all thought...perhaps shaun is way ahead of schedule and sam is feeling great...


the sky is definitely *not* falling...


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## yamaneko

age is just one of the few "knocks" on him. He might be a decent player. Heck, without the richardson trade he could have STARTED on a team like charlotte. The main thing im concerned with is he doesnt fit our team at ALL since he cannot play C or SG.


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## bootstrenf

yamaneko said:


> age is just one of the few "knocks" on him. He might be a decent player. Heck, without the richardson trade he could have STARTED on a team like charlotte. The main thing im concerned with is he doesnt fit our team at ALL since he cannot play C or SG.



injuries killed us last season...maybe someone will get injured this year...corey seems to get injured often...it's not so bad having an nba-ready 3 available to counter that...


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## leidout

bootstrenf said:


> injuries killed us last season...maybe someone will get injured this year...corey seems to get injured often...it's not so bad having an nba-ready 3 available to counter that...


I said it in another thread, and i'll say it in this one: We've got SIX SMALL FORWARDS now.

Maggette has to get traded, Qross has to get benched, Thomas has to get hurt, Singleton & Korolev have to walk... Then this pick will start to make sense.

Whereas we've still got two guards looking at retirement and are already "playing thru injury" for about 80 games a year. With only a single scrub (Ewing) and whatever 10-day veteran scrub Dunleavy chooses. Diaz & Jordan might not make the team, and even if they do, are backups at best.

A Center or Guard would've made a world of sense.


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## yamaneko

But again, why draft a guy at your deepest position. Instead how about draft a guy that can go 1/2 (stuckey). A guy who can play center/PF. Was an uncessary pick even for injury since we have davis, thomas, singleton (had), maggette, mobley, korolev (?), brand, Ross, williams, who can all play PF/SF. The list of those who can do PG/SG or SG/SF is a lot less. 

The only thing that can justify this pick for me (already the letting go of singleton makes it that much worse), is if we plan on trading maggette and someone else for a good center or guard. 

For example, if we had traded maggette and change to charlotte for brandon wright to come in and be the main backup at PF, moving thomas to SF, i would have been "ok" (still would have taken young first), with thornton, because then he could have minutes at SF.


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## Showtime87

He does fit on this team, he's a physical presence who can play at either the SF or PF position. He'll be a valuable component off the bench and with his 4 years of college experience he's an NBA ready talent. This pick also does not mean that Maggette will be automatically be traded, Thornton was drafted in order to provide additional scoring off the bench and that will be his role for the foreseeable future.


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## leidout

Showtime87 said:


> He does fit on this team, he's a physical presence who can play at either the SF or PF position. He'll be a valuable component off the bench and with his 4 years of college experience he's an NBA ready talent. This pick also does not mean that Maggette will be automatically be traded, Thornton was drafted in order to provide additional scoring off the bench and that will be his role for the foreseeable future.


What're you? His agent or something?


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## yamaneko

So what if he can play SF or PF. Taureen green is a championship winning PG, yet probably what the 5th PG on portlands team right now? We already had an athletic PF/SF in singleton who we had to cut for nothing just to get these guy the 5 minutes a game he had. Sure hes a physical precence, but he just doesnt fit into this team. If we wanted a good rebounder, leaper guy we already had a minimum wage singleton, not a 2 million dollar lottery guy about the same age. 

Like i said its about team need. I bet he could have started on charlotte this year...that doesnt make it the right pick for us.


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## leidout

yamaneko said:


> Like i said its about team need. I bet he could have started on charlotte this year...that doesnt make it the right pick for us.


Hopefully we'll trade him for a position we need help at, call up Charlotte for a Breven Knight S&T.


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## Showtime87

leidout said:


> What're you? His agent or something?


I just like this guy's ability. Bottom line. Yes, there are a lot of SF's on the team right now, but you have to know that this pick means Singleton and Korolev are automatically gone. Ross is verstatile and can play either the 2 or 3 spot, so I really don't see much of a problem there. So they'll have Maggette, Thomas, Ross & Thornton - three of whom are capable of playing multiple positions. In reality, Korolev and Singleton were coming off the books anyway, so this team will actually have one _less_ SF going into next season. Thornton was a smart pick, nearly every analyst I heard concurred that the Clipps were lucky to land him where they did. He's not going to be another Chris Wilcox either, Wilcox was an unpolished project coming out after his freshmen year, Thornton played four full college seasons and continually improved. I don't understand why you guys feel like this is the end of the world.


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## bootstrenf

Showtime87 said:


> I just like this guy's ability. Bottom line. Yes, there are a lot of SF's on the team right now, but you have to know that this pick means Singleton and Korolev are automatically gone. Ross is verstatile and can play either the 2 or 3 spot, so I really don't see much of a problem there. So they'll have Maggette, Thomas, Ross & Thornton - three of whom are capable of playing multiple positions. In reality, Korolev and Singleton were coming off the books anyway, so this team will actually have one _less_ SF going into next season. Thornton was a smart pick, nearly every analyst I heard concurred that the Clipps were lucky to land him where they did. He's not going to be another Chris Wilcox either, Wilcox was an unpolished project coming out after his freshmen year, Thornton played four full college seasons and continually improved. I don't understand why you guys feel like this is the end of the world.



good points, and i agree with you...the only thing i personally didn't like about thornton was his age...but then i thought about how josh howard fell in the draft because of his age and a lot of the things people are saying about al right now, were also said about josh...like i said before, maybe thornton could be our josh howard...6'8" 220...they're very close in size also...


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## bootstrenf

anyone notice that the clippers as a team don't dunk that much??? maggette has the ability, but just always seems to do layups...

thornton is a strong finisher and that's just what we need...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

****ing ridiculous...that's a 7 footer by the way...vince carter part 2???


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## Showtime87

bootstrenf said:


> anyone notice that the clippers as a team don't dunk that much??? maggette has the ability, but just always seems to do layups...
> 
> thornton is a strong finisher and that's just what we need...
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> ****ing ridiculous...that's a 7 footer by the way...vince carter part 2???


Yeah, I love that clip. Reminds me a little of a young Shawn Kemp.


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## yamaneko

James singleton can do that for 1/3 the salary.


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## Showtime87

Thornton does that, plus a lot more though.


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## MR. VADA

yep,that's part of the 4-minuet clip i was trying to post yesterday but yam and weasle kept it off the board...the site is full of threads. if you don't like someone or their threads just dont post on it. you two are really immature...i like to have fun and i know what i'm talking about...vada


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## DaFranchise

bootstrenf said:


> anyone notice that the clippers as a team don't dunk that much??? maggette has the ability, but just always seems to do layups...
> 
> thornton is a strong finisher and that's just what we need...
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> ****ing ridiculous...that's a 7 footer by the way...vince carter part 2???


Yeah that was a 7 footer but Brian Butch has about a 10 inch vertical who plays on the perimeter. Come on now. That looked like an old Wilcox highlight. Sorry not impressed.


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## bootstrenf

DaFranchise said:


> Yeah that was a 7 footer but Brian Butch has about a 10 inch vertical who plays on the perimeter. Come on now. That looked like an old Wilcox highlight. Sorry not impressed.



okay...


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## qross1fan

DaFranchise said:


> Yeah that was a 7 footer but Brian Butch has about a 10 inch vertical who plays on the perimeter. Come on now. That looked like an old Wilcox highlight. Sorry not impressed.


And Carter's dunk was over Frederic Weiss, who is 7'2, but less athletic then Butch probably. I guess Carters dunk didn't impress you either?


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## squeemu

leidout said:


> What're you? His agent or something?


Yeah, because anyone who likes Thornton MUST be his agent  

This is turning into the most ridiculous thread ever on this forum. I don't see how the Clippers could have done much better at all in this draft...it's not like they had the first pick.


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## yamaneko

squeemu, as far as team needs i posted 6 players who could have fit our needs better.

Instead of just saying this thread is ridiculous or that they couldnt have done better, please be the first pro thornton person on this board to actually explain how its a good picck, who he will take minutes from and why he fits into dunleavvys system, dunleavvys likes better than nick young, bellineli, or any of the other players they could have picked


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## DaFranchise

qross1fan said:


> And Carter's dunk was over Frederic Weiss, who is 7'2, but less athletic then Butch probably. I guess Carters dunk didn't impress you either?


Are you really comparing Thornton to VC? Please think before you type.


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## DaFranchise

qross1fan said:


> And Carter's dunk was over Frederic Weiss, who is 7'2, but less athletic then Butch probably. I guess Carters dunk didn't impress you either?


I didnt know that we are drafting based on dunking abilities. 

Thornton=Wilcox


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## bootstrenf

DaFranchise said:


> Are you really comparing Thornton to VC? Please think before you type.


actually, it was the bootstrenf who first proposed that comparison...and the vince carter comparison was just in reference to his hops...i should've been more specific...


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## NOFX22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnnHLhsG34

From what I saw in this video looks really good!!! Bye bye Maggette!


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## leidout

Dunk highlight videos are completely useless.

Darius Miles was a Slam Dunk Master, but now he's essentially out of the NBA.

Corey Maggette is possibly the most efficient scorer in the league, trading him so we can play Wilcox 2.0 is tough to accept.


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## cpawfan

DaFranchise said:


> I didnt know that we are drafting based on dunking abilities.
> 
> Thornton=Wilcox


How exactly is an offensively limited PF/C the same as a slashing SF with a complete offensive game? Additionally, Wilcox was a role player in college, while Thornton has been the man on his team and carried them on his back.


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## NOFX22

leidout said:


> Dunk highlight videos are completely useless.
> 
> Darius Miles was a Slam Dunk Master, but now he's essentially out of the NBA.
> 
> Corey Maggette is possibly the most efficient scorer in the league, trading him so we can play Wilcox 2.0 is tough to accept.


From the highlights he looks like he has jumpshot something Maggette or Wilcox doenst have!


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## Showtime87

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIAGUbMfCE

This is NOT a dunk gallery - watch this preview of Thornton's highlights.


----------



## bootstrenf

i really don't understand the wilcox/thornton comparison...


----------



## NOFX22

He does kind of remind me of Paul Pierce a litte bit! Just gotta work on his ball hanldling skills.


----------



## Showtime87

bootstrenf said:


> i really don't understand the wilcox/thornton comparison...


I don't either, I guess people are just thinking of his athleticism and dunking ability and immediately comparing him to Wilcox. He has a much better all-around game than Chris did coming out of college.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23

NOFX22 said:


> He does kind of remind me of Paul Pierce a litte bit! Just gotta work on his ball hanldling skills.


Yeah if we can improve his ball handling, he could play some minutes at SG and that would allow the Clippers to play him and Maggette at the same time.


----------



## qross1fan

DaFranchise said:


> Are you really comparing Thornton to VC? Please think before you type.




As far as you saying Thornton is Wilcox Part II, it's just pure hilarious. Your comparing a SF with a better all around game, to a PF/C with a limited game? Very funny.

Sorry Clippers didn't get a turnover machine like you wanted, doesn't mean you have to go and put words in people's mouths as I just compared one dunk by each of them, not their whole games.


----------



## DaFranchise

qross1fan said:


> As far as you saying Thornton is Wilcox Part II, it's just pure hilarious. Your comparing a SF with a better all around game, to a PF/C with a limited game? Very funny.
> 
> Sorry Clippers didn't get a turnover machine like you wanted, doesn't mean you have to go and put words in people's mouths as I just compared one dunk by each of them, not their whole games.


Thornton played PF at FSU. He is only projected at SF cuz he is only 6'8 at best. He better improve that range if he wants to play SF. 
Yeah I wanted Critt but I would have been satisfied with Young as well. I see our biggest need in the backcourt. Sam is practically dead and Cat is not far behind him. We werearguably the worst perimeter team offensively and defensively in the league last year. So all of sudden Baylor and Dumbleavy decide to take the best player available. Why the hell didnt they use that theory when we drafted Korolev? We could have had Granger. Damn it. Dumbleavy and Baylor have no clue what direction this team is going in and that is evident in the past 3 drafts.


----------



## DANNY

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Congrats Clipper fans, you just got yourself a beast.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23

Has anybody else heard the rumors that Thornton might need wrist surgery this summer? I was reading somewhere that said that might be the reason he fell in the draft


----------



## yamaneko

wouldnt make the pick any worse...its not like he would have a lot of playing time anyway barring trade


----------



## ChadWick

dannyM said:


> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBBw3OoFrQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> Congrats Clipper fans, you just got yourself a beast.




*WOW*


----------



## hobojoe

A few notes from the newest Clippers Fan:

- You got yourself an absolute steal in Al Thornton. I tell you that as someone who is admittedly biased but also extremely informed because I've followed Al his entire career and seen him many, many times in person and on television. 

- The Chris Wilcox comparison is idiotic, it's really not even worth addressing. If you think they're anything alike you haven't seen Al play. 

- I can understand some of you wanting Nick Young instead, but don't be disappointed. Young is also one of my favorite players from this draft, and one of the biggest steals along with Thornton, but you won't be disappointed with Al. 

- Al can come in and play right now, I hope he's not wasted on the bench in Los Angeles. I'm not going to lie, I was hoping for Minnesota, Sacramento, or New Orleans because of the situations for him to walk into. The Clippers isn't a bad situation, it could've been a lot worse, but it depends on what other roster moves (if any) they make.

- As far as basketball misconceptions, Al's not a tweener. Let me dispel that notion quickly. He's a small forward with decent range on his jump shot (still could be improved, needs a little more consistency from 3-point range but he's an extremely hard worker and I'm sure he is/will work(ing) on it). He's not a bad ball handler like you would think, he just doesn't make plays for other people which is why he has low assist numbers. He's not a black hole, he's very unselfish and a willing passer, just not a great one. He's not really a catch and shoot guy, he's much better shooting off the dribble (and he is extremely good at it). He's very effective in the post, but can be offensive foul prone down there. He tries to jump over people a lot (because he literally can) and it gets him in trouble sometimes. I can give you more on his game, but I think that's enough for now so you get the idea. That is, without even touching on his athleticism which is out of this world. I'll be around here, so I'm sure you'll hear more from me this offseason and throughout the year. 

-Lastly, just to touch on Thornton's wrist. I wasn't aware of his wrist bothering him or needing surgery this summer but I've now heard from a couple sources that it is true. It's strange because I hadn't really heard of it bothering him or being an issue until recently (including my conversations with Al), so I get the idea it's a lingering issue that has the potential to get worse so he'd rather address it now before it gets to the point where it affects his game and he needs it. I don't think it's anything to worry about though, he might be unable to play in the Summer League or something but I'm sure it'll be fully healed and ready to go come season time.


----------



## hobojoe

PAIDNFULL23 said:


> Yeah if we can improve his ball handling, he could play some minutes at SG and that would allow the Clippers to play him and Maggette at the same time.


Just to put it out there, Al's said publicly (and privately) that he thinks he can play some SG and he's working hard on his ball-handling and perimeter skills to be able to that. I think he still needs more work in those departments before he can play SG in the NBA, but he could get there. I think more than anything he's just a terrific scorer and a basketball player, the position isn't that important. He's absolutely quick enough to defend NBA SGs, so defense isn't the issue.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Clippers Select Thornton*



PAIDNFULL23 said:


> Thornton is a good player, but just not for THIS TEAM. Nick Young should have been the pick. Thornton doesn't fit any of our needs. He isn't a PG or a scoring SG, he isn't a third big behind Kamen and EB, and he doesn't have a ton of potential, on top of that he is 25 years old.
> 
> Singleton is a very similar player, so if the Clippers wanted someone like Thornton, they had him unrightfully buried on the bench, and Singleton is younger and has 2 years of NBA experience. What the **** are Dumbleavy and Baylor doing? It doesn't make sense.


First Stuart Scott says Thornton's 24 and now he's 25? By next week Thornton will announce his retirement. He's barely 23 1/2 years old, he's not 24 until well after the season starts. To say he doesn't have potential because of his age is foolish, he still has a lot of room for improvement and has the work ethic to make those improvements. He arrived at FSU as a tremendous athlete, but not a basketball player at all. He was even quoted as saying he should've been on the track team running the 400m or the hurdles, not the basketball court. He's come so far in such a short time, he has all-star potential with the physical gifts he possesses combined with his determination and work ethic.


----------



## Weasel

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/8199287.html



> King said the Sixers checked out a report that Thornton might need wrist surgery and found "he is fine."


----------



## yamaneko

Well if theres any hope of him being able to tranistion from PF to SG in the NBA(not very common), he had better be decent at SG in the summerleague against mediocre competition. Ill be sure to let you guys know if he does play some SG in summerleague.


----------



## hobojoe

Going back and reading the entire thread I have one more quick thing to add. Thornton chose not to play his first year out of high school and to instead work on his game and become more of a basketball player rather than an athlete. He then came to Florida State the next year and played limited minutes as a freshman, even though it was his second year out of high school. That's how he's 23 right now.


----------



## hobojoe

yamaneko said:


> Well if theres any hope of him being able to tranistion from PF to SG in the NBA(not very common), he had better be decent at SG in the summerleague against mediocre competition. Ill be sure to let you guys know if he does play some SG in summerleague.


It's unfair to say Al was strictly a PF at the collegiate level. FSU played three guards and two forwards. He was a forward, but a guy who played out on the perimeter a lot and who handled the ball everywhere on the court. Look at the first round game of the ACC tournament this year against Clemson. With the game tied in the final seconds and the game on the line, they gave Thornton the ball near half court and told him to go to work. He held the ball for a little while then penetrated into the paint and got fouled. How many PFs do you see having isolation plays ran for them where they start well past the 3-point line and create their own offense from there with the game on the line? Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Brandan Wright? It's laughable to think of any of those guys doing it. Thornton's not a PF, and he really wasn't one in college either. I think he can continue to work on it and be able to play minutes at SG, it's really not that much of a stretch.


----------



## HKF

I still think this team is a poor fit for Al. They just don't know what they're doing. They wasted a good player in Singleton and let him go for nothing and I feel they are going to do the same to Al. They should have taken Nick Young who was a need but also on par talent wise with Al. Then again I am trying to remember the last great pick Elgin Baylor has made. Maybe Odom?


----------



## hobojoe

HKF said:


> I still think this team is a poor fit for Al. They just don't know what they're doing. They wasted a good player in Singleton and let him go for nothing and I feel they are going to do the same to Al. They should have taken Nick Young who was a need but also on par talent wise with Al. Then again I am trying to remember the last great pick Elgin Baylor has made. Maybe Odom?


I agree with you, my first reaction when I heard his name called was disappointment. I was really hoping for Minnesota, Sacramento or New Orleans. I didn't want the Clippers to take him, but I don't think his career is over before it begins, I think he can work his way into big minutes on this team and make a name for himself in the league. It may take longer than I hoped, but I think he's good enough that no matter what team he was on he'd find a way to make a positive impact and get on the court. And you're being generous calling Odom a great pick with Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion, AK47 and even Ron Artest on the board. At least it wasn't a terrible pick.


----------



## HKF

See I have lost all hope with the Clippers when it comes to drafting. Like when they took Wilcox and Ely in 2002. Just all hope. They trade down instead of taking Ben Gordon. I have no problems with Thornton, as you know. I like him an awful lot. It's just this was the wrong team for him on so many levels.

They still have Ross, Maggette, Tim Thomas who may play in front of him. Ick. They needed backcourt help and Nick Young was there. He's gonna flourish in Washington and Thornton is going to have fight for 20 minutes a game. Now if Maggette is moved for backcourt help, I'll retract my statements, but until then I don't like it. 

I hope they just say F it and give Thornton minutes regardless but I just can't see that happening.


----------



## hobojoe

HKF said:


> See I have lost all hope with the Clippers when it comes to drafting. Like when they took Wilcox and Ely in 2002. Just all hope. They trade down instead of taking Ben Gordon. I have no problems with Thornton, as you know. I like him an awful lot. It's just this was the wrong team for him on so many levels.
> 
> They still have Ross, Maggette, Tim Thomas who may play in front of him. Ick. They needed backcourt help and Nick Young was there. He's gonna flourish in Washington and Thornton is going to have fight for 20 minutes a game. Now if Maggette is moved for backcourt help, I'll retract my statements, but until then I don't like it.
> 
> I hope they just say F it and give Thornton minutes regardless but I just can't see that happening.


Like I said, I was definitely unhappy with this, but it could be worse. I think the chances of Maggette getting moved are pretty high. I'd like to think the Clippers at least have a plan (other than to stash their lottery pick SF on the bench until his contract is up ala Korolev) but I'm not entirely confident in that. Again, it's not ideal but I think Al's going to make it work here or somewhere else one way or another, he's going to make it in the league.


----------



## hutcht02

What's not to love about the Thornton pick? It's just like in 2004 when Toronto too Charlie Villanueva and nobody understood why beacuse of how similar he was to Chris Bosh. It turns out that pick was a very good one. Thornton has a winning attitude, and can do everything, plus he's ready to do damage now instead of waiting. I can see him maybe starting at PF in the Rookie-Sophomore Game. He's a huge upgrade over Singleton, and I think everybody needs to quit complaining because he brings more to the table than Young or Crittendon or anybody else we could've grabbed can, and I think he's still got a lot more room for growth than everybody thinks. His attitude, energy, leadership, and enthusiasm point to the great things he will bring to the Clippers. I'd just like to say on behalf of the entire Clippernation: Welcome to L.A. Al. We believe in you.


----------



## yamaneko

hutch, we have explained time and time again what snot to love about the thornton pick. Villanueva is a completely different situation. Did villanueva have 5 guys ahead of him at his position? Thornton can do damage alright...on another team, he was a completely uncessary pick as we had the same guy, perhaps better with 2 years of pro experience, in singleton, at 1/3 the salary. 

How does he bring more to the CLIPPER table than young who would have challenged right away for a starting SG spot...who was a local hero...who would be the only other guy other than Sam that has the mentality to take a last minute shot. Thorntons MUCH better of a player than crittenton, but A. hes old enough to be his father, B. crittenton also would have immediately saw big minutes at SG/PG. There are 5 other guys that were a better fit as well. 

The only way thornton works out for us if if something CHANGES. 1. A trade. 2. An Injury. 3. he all of a sudden plays a position he has never played in his life. 4. he becomes a point forward type player, learns how to pass better, so that dunleavvy moves him ahead of guys in the lineup.

Personally i like to make moves based on facts and not based on what if this happens, or intangibles. Thornton could turn out to be an all star...it still was the wrong pick AT THE TIME...because for him to ever be even a 6th man on this team, lots of CHANGES, and crazy things would have to happen.


----------



## shaunliv

yamaneko said:


> hutch, we have explained time and time again what snot to love about the thornton pick. Villanueva is a completely different situation. Did villanueva have 5 guys ahead of him at his position? Thornton can do damage alright...on another team, he was a completely uncessary pick as we had the same guy, perhaps better with 2 years of pro experience, in singleton, at 1/3 the salary.
> 
> How does he bring more to the CLIPPER table than young who would have challenged right away for a starting SG spot...who was a local hero...who would be the only other guy other than Sam that has the mentality to take a last minute shot. Thorntons MUCH better of a player than crittenton, but A. hes old enough to be his father, B. crittenton also would have immediately saw big minutes at SG/PG. There are 5 other guys that were a better fit as well.
> 
> The only way thornton works out for us if if something CHANGES. 1. A trade. 2. An Injury. 3. he all of a sudden plays a position he has never played in his life. 4. he becomes a point forward type player, learns how to pass better, so that dunleavvy moves him ahead of guys in the lineup.
> 
> Personally i like to make moves based on facts and not based on what if this happens, or intangibles. Thornton could turn out to be an all star...it still was the wrong pick AT THE TIME...because for him to ever be even a 6th man on this team, lots of CHANGES, and crazy things would have to happen.


If Nick Young can play the SG, then Thornton can too. His midrange shot off the dribble is rediculous. From what I hear, Thornton plays all out EVERY second that he is in a game and many feel he can become a shut down defender. Young would play lackadasical at times and was by no means near a shut down defender.
just compare their stats from last season: (LEADER In *BOLD*)

Al Thornton
PG AST STL BLK REB FG% FT% 3PG% 
*19.7* .7 *1.5* *1.1* *7.2* *53* *79 * *.444*

Nick Young
PG AST STL BLK REB FG% FT% 3PG% 
17.1* 1.4* .7 .3 4.6 .525 .786 .440



Check out these head-to-head matchups Thornton's had with guys drafted above him:

---

vs. Al Horford and Joaquim Noah, December 3, 2006

Al Thornton: 28 pts, 9 rebounds
Al Horford: 4 pts, 6 rebounds
J. Noah: 11 pts, 5 rebounds



---
vs. Brendan Wright, January 7, 2007

Al Thornton: 29 pts, 12 rebounds
Brendan Wright: 20 pts, 5 rebounds



---
vs. Brendan Wright, March 9, 2007

Al Thornton: 12 pts, 6 rebounds
Brendan Wright: 11 pts, 2 rebounds





By stats alone, i can see why management likes this guy alot. 
Look, let's just reserve judgement until at least we get a chance to see him play in Vegas.


----------



## DaFranchise

HKF said:


> See I have lost all hope with the Clippers when it comes to drafting. Like when they took Wilcox and Ely in 2002. Just all hope. They trade down instead of taking Ben Gordon. I have no problems with Thornton, as you know. I like him an awful lot. It's just this was the wrong team for him on so many levels.
> 
> They still have Ross, Maggette, Tim Thomas who may play in front of him. Ick. They needed backcourt help and Nick Young was there. He's gonna flourish in Washington and Thornton is going to have fight for 20 minutes a game. Now if Maggette is moved for backcourt help, I'll retract my statements, but until then I don't like it.
> 
> I hope they just say F it and give Thornton minutes regardless but I just can't see that happening.


Finally, someone who makes sense.


----------



## hobojoe

Let's be real here -- Singleton is gone, Thornton should definitely (and I fully expect him to) be ahead of Tim Thomas and Quinton Ross on the depth chart. You guys are severely underrating his abilities, and making too big a deal of him being 23 years old. He's going to find his way onto the court and help the Clippers right away, which is what you guys want anyway.


----------



## hobojoe

shaunliv said:


> If Nick Young can play the SG, then Thornton can too. His midrange shot off the dribble is rediculous. From what I hear, Thornton plays all out EVERY second that he is in a game and many feel he can become a shut down defender. Young would play lackadasical at times and was by no means near a shut down defender.
> just compare their stats from last season: (LEADER In *BOLD*)


That's not a very true statement at all. I love Thornton, but you can't say he's just as much of a SG as Nick Young because he's not, and the numbers have nothing to do with it. Thornton can play, Thornton can shoot, but Nick Young is as pure of a SG as there comes. Al does play all out every minute of every game, but he has a lot of work to do to become a lock down defender. He needs to be more disciplined defensively.


----------



## shaunliv

hobojoe said:


> That's not a very true statement at all. I love Thornton, but you can't say he's just as much of a SG as Nick Young because he's not, and the numbers have nothing to do with it. Thornton can play, Thornton can shoot, but Nick Young is as pure of a SG as there comes. Al does play all out every minute of every game, but he has a lot of work to do to become a lock down defender. He needs to be more disciplined defensively.


so are you saying the Nick Young DOESN'T need defensive improvement? Please don't tell me the 2nd best offensive player in this draft who can shot off the dribble, off the pass, and dunk on 7 footers CAN'T shoot the ball like a SG!


----------



## BlakeJesus

shaunliv said:


> so are you saying the Nick Young DOESN'T need defensive improvement? Please don't tell me the 2nd best offensive player in this draft who can shot off the dribble, off the pass, and dunk on 7 footers CAN'T shoot the ball like a SG!


There's more to playing SG than simply just shooting. Don't you think there's a reason that guys all across the NBA that play SF DON'T play SG? I'm sure I could pick out a dozen examples that are very similar to this situation and say, how come they don't play SG?

There's obviously a reason those players don't play SG, and I'd trust NBA scouts and coaches that say he's a SF/PF than some fans on a message board who wish with all their heart he could be a SG. Might he log a few minutes at SG? Sure, that's not completely unfathomable. But if you drafted him with the intention of making him your future SG, you didn't pick the right guy. Nick Young was your right guy.


----------



## hobojoe

shaunliv said:


> so are you saying the Nick Young DOESN'T need defensive improvement? Please don't tell me the 2nd best offensive player in this draft who can shot off the dribble, off the pass, and dunk on 7 footers CAN'T shoot the ball like a SG!


Nick Young does need defensive improvement, I didn't even address that so I don't know why you're saying I did. About Thornton, he can shoot well enough to play some minutes at SG but he's not ready to play significant time there. His ball-handling has just now, in his senior year, reached the level to where it's good enough for an NBA SF. He has work to do before he's has an NBA SG's ball-handling ability. Also, you say he can shoot off the dribble and off the pass -- He does both well enough again for a SF, but he can not be your primary catch and shoot guy on the floor as your SG. Thornton is much, much better shooting off the dribble than he is at catching and shooting. He's not good enough yet catching and shooting the ball to be relied on to knock it down with consistency. And what does dunking the ball over a 7 footer have to do with anything?


----------



## shaunliv

GregOden said:


> There's more to playing SG than simply just shooting. Don't you think there's a reason that guys all across the NBA that play SF DON'T play SG? I'm sure I could pick out a dozen examples that are very similar to this situation and say, how come they don't play SG?
> 
> There's obviously a reason those players don't play SG, and I'd trust NBA scouts and coaches that say he's a SF/PF than some fans on a message board who wish with all their heart he could be a SG. Might he log a few minutes at SG? Sure, that's not completely unfathomable. But if you drafted him with the intention of making him your future SG, you didn't pick the right guy. Nick Young was your right guy.


EXACTLY, that's what my first post was all about. Thornton as opposed to Young, is a MUCH better defender. Just check out his steals AND blocks in the ACC!
the SG is gonna have to DEFEND the most athletic players in the NBA and Thornton is KNOWN for defensive effort. Nick Young is NOT a great defender.

Could you please give specifc reasons why Thorton CAN'T play the SG?


----------



## hobojoe

Looks like Dunleavy sees Thornton as a 3 with some potential to play a little 4 rather than 2.

“In a situation like this draft where it was a strong draft, you need to come away with somebody that can contribute. That is what our goal was. We missed the playoffs by one game last year. The last day of the season cost us the playoffs and because of that we wanted to add to what we already have. If Corey [Maggette] were to be injured, Al Thornton could step in and start for us. If Cuttino Mobley were to be injured we could drop Corey down to two and Al could play the three. We thought he was a really good pick for us.”

"His position could be a three. I think at times, because of his strength and his athleticism, he could play some four if needed but for the most part he is a three. He is a big time athlete."


----------



## shaunliv

hobojoe said:


> Nick Young does need defensive improvement, I didn't even address that so I don't know why you're saying I did. About Thornton, he can shoot well enough to play some minutes at SG but he's not ready to play significant time there. His ball-handling has just now, in his senior year, reached the level to where it's good enough for an NBA SF. He has work to do before he's has an NBA SG's ball-handling ability. Also, you say he can shoot off the dribble and off the pass -- He does both well enough again for a SF, but he can not be your primary catch and shoot guy on the floor as your SG. Thornton is much, much better shooting off the dribble than he is at catching and shooting. He's not good enough yet catching and shooting the ball to be relied on to knock it down with consistency. And what does dunking the ball over a 7 footer have to do with anything?


Wait a minute, didn't Corey Maggette play significant SG minutes for us in his career? Does he have dibbling skills? NO. There's no way you can claim that Tornton doesn't dribble better or at least as good as Maggette.
Point is, dribbling is for the PG not the SG, if the SG can dribble it's a bonus.


----------



## hobojoe

shaunliv said:


> EXACTLY, that's what my first post was all about. Thornton as opposed to Young, is a MUCH better defender. Just check out his steals AND blocks in the ACC!
> the SG is gonna have to DEFEND the most athletic players in the NBA and Thornton is KNOWN for defensive effort. Nick Young is NOT a great defender.
> 
> Could you please give specifc reasons why Thorton CAN'T play the SG?


First of all, Al Thornton is not known for his defensive effort, lets dispel that theory right now. He plays every game hard on both ends, but he's known for his athleticism, finishing ability and the way he runs the court like a guard at his size. Defensively, the effort is there but he needs to be more disciplined. He gambles a lot, jumps passing lanes and bites on pump fakes to pick up stupid fouls/get blown by. The tools and the effort are there, he needs work though. As for why he can't play SG in the NBA full-time, read my post right before yours.


----------



## hobojoe

shaunliv said:


> Wait a minute, didn't Corey Maggette play significant SG minutes for us in his career? Does he have dibbling skills? NO. There's no way you can claim that Tornton doesn't dribble better or at least as good as Maggette.
> Point is, dribbling is for the PG not the SG, if the SG can dribble it's a bonus.


Wrong, dribbling isn't just for PGs, it's absolutely essential for SGs as well. That's crazy to think you don't need to be able to dribble to play SG.


----------



## yamaneko

and as bad as maggette is, he is a btter dribbler than thornton who has never played the position yet. 

It was so important to dunleavvy that maggette (who played parts of what 3 years at SG?) NOT play SG because of his build and dribbling, that he went out and gave mobley the richest free agent contract in history to move maggette to SF.

People can learn to play different positions. Its been done before. Thornton can learn to play PG, and it wouldnt be the first time thats happened. But again, i bet on sure things, not what if scenarios. Nick young was a SG sure thing, nick young can dribble sure thing. Bellineli can play even PG and SG, sure thing. etc. etc. If thornon ever does anything like that its because he learned to do something hes never done before...he would be beating the odds. Not the chance id take.


----------



## HKF

Maggette is going to opt out next summer anyway. So is Brand.


----------



## hobojoe

yamaneko said:


> and as bad as maggette is, he is a btter dribbler than thornton who has never played the position yet.
> 
> It was so important to dunleavvy that maggette (who played parts of what 3 years at SG?) NOT play SG because of his build and dribbling, that he went out and gave mobley the richest free agent contract in history to move maggette to SF.
> 
> People can learn to play different positions. Its been done before. Thornton can learn to play PG, and it wouldnt be the first time thats happened. But again, i bet on sure things, not what if scenarios. Nick young was a SG sure thing, nick young can dribble sure thing. Bellineli can play even PG and SG, sure thing. etc. etc. If thornon ever does anything like that its because he learned to do something hes never done before...he would be beating the odds. Not the chance id take.


I would agree with you, but I think Al Thornton is clearly on a level above Nick Young as a pro prospect. It's like the old phrase that you "always take big over small". That's only applicable if you're talking about comparable talents. It's good reasoning if you're saying that's why you'd take Greg Oden over Dwyane Wade, but you can't say you'd take Patrick O'Bryant over Dwyane Wade because you always take big over small. Obviously that's an extreme example, but I don't think you take team need over the best player available unless they're comparable talents. In this case, I just don't think Nick Young is on the same level as Al Thornton. The Clippers made the right pick in my opinion, it's the best for the team.


----------



## TakingitbyStorm

"It was so important to dunleavvy that maggette (who played parts of what 3 years at SG?) NOT play SG because of his build and dribbling, that he went out and gave mobley the richest free agent contract in history to move maggette to SF."

True, but we should remember that this is when Maggette established his reputation with the refs by punishing opposing SGs. He is more than capable of holding down this position, although it may not be his strongest.


----------



## yamaneko

hobojoe, again i disagree. Nick young also meets other clipper needs, not just based on the position he plays. Nick young has superstar potential with the way he plays the game. He has the mentality to take over games down the stretch. You always take need over player unless youre talking about something ridiculous. And thornton is not ridiculously nor obviously a great deal more talented than nick young. And you look at comparable by age, and what nick young did at his age, compared to where thornton was at the same age. 

Now, new orleans you could argue it more. Julian wright is top 5 talent. SO they went with him instead of young since he dropped. If clippers picked wright over young, i wouldnt have liked it, but i would have been fine with it. Wright is someone, that if he was picked 4 or 5, people would not have batted an eye, he has that talent, not to mention the age.


----------



## yamaneko

and again, if you do take talent over need, it means that guy is good enough to undoubtedly make minutes for himself. Like portland. They have prizbilla, aldridge, had randolph, have freeland, lafrentz, etc. etc. Technically they dont need a center. But oden instantly is a starter over all those guys, no question. Seattle kind of had allen and lewis. But again, durant is so good, you still pick him because his abilities demand playing time.

I dont think anyone here will stay that thornton is better than maggette. yet we know as a fact that much of the year maggette didnt even start. If thornton was soo good to demand playing time on this team, there shouldnt be any doubt that dunleavvy would play him over maggette. Heck, theres even doubt that coach would play him over tim thomas. and theres NO doubt that coach plays him over elton brand. 

If we had a shot at oden, we take him, regardless of if kaman is on the team. If we at 14 had a shot at Brandon wright, you take him regardless of maggette. If we had a shot at 14 at conley jr. you take him, doesnt matter if we had shaun livingston and cassell healthy. With thornton any playing time he earns is an uphill battle. Hes not pencilled in to get time off the bat ahead of thomas and maggette, and already hes cost us anothe rguy in singleton just to at least get his 5 minuts a game.


----------



## hobojoe

We can agree to disagree then, but I guarantee you Thornton will be playing significant minutes for the Clippers this season. There's no doubt in my mind he's going to come in and impress the coaching staff enough to the point where they have no choice but to find time for him to play. I really do think he is a level above Nick Young and that the Clippers made the right pick, and I really like both players -- I just think Thornton is better and worth not taking a pure SG with a more consistent outside shot at this point.


----------



## bootstrenf

i have one question...has thornton ever had any knee problems or problems with nagging injuries in general during his collegiate career???

if not, i don't think his age is a big issue...


----------



## yamaneko

But for the 1000th time, where/who is he going to take minutes from. I figured zero as it stood when he was drafted. But now that singleton was cut thats guaranteed 5 minutes every few games. But the fact remains, ross is a favorite of dunleavvy, especially to counter cassells inability to guard anyone. Maggette people on here say is this teams 2nd best player. Thomas is another dunleavvy favorite. So who are you guaranteeing he is going to take significant minutes from.

Age to me doesnt have much to do with injuries unles youre like sam cassell. Age has to do with peak and improvement graph. most stars are stars or pretty much near stars in the nba by 24. Not getting third team all american in college.


----------



## bootstrenf

yamaneko said:


> But for the 1000th time, where/who is he going to take minutes from. I figured zero as it stood when he was drafted. But now that singleton was cut thats guaranteed 5 minutes every few games. But the fact remains, ross is a favorite of dunleavvy, especially to counter cassells inability to guard anyone. Maggette people on here say is this teams 2nd best player. Thomas is another dunleavvy favorite. So who are you guaranteeing he is going to take significant minutes from.
> 
> Age to me doesnt have much to do with injuries unles youre like sam cassell. Age has to do with peak and improvement graph. most stars are stars or pretty much near stars in the nba by 24. Not getting third team all american in college.



no offense, but i didn't ask for all that...


i just wanted to know if he was injury prone...'tis all...


----------



## hobojoe

yamaneko said:


> But for the 1000th time, where/who is he going to take minutes from. I figured zero as it stood when he was drafted. But now that singleton was cut thats guaranteed 5 minutes every few games. But the fact remains, ross is a favorite of dunleavvy, especially to counter cassells inability to guard anyone. Maggette people on here say is this teams 2nd best player. Thomas is another dunleavvy favorite. So who are you guaranteeing he is going to take significant minutes from.
> 
> Age to me doesnt have much to do with injuries unles youre like sam cassell. Age has to do with peak and improvement graph. most stars are stars or pretty much near stars in the nba by 24. Not getting third team all american in college.


I've already told you I don't know, all I know is if a guy comes in and impresses everyone in the organization and everyone knows he's good, he's not going to rot on the bench. Dunleavy will find a way to play him. If Thornton comes in and shows better discipline defensively than he has in the past, there's no defensive advantage in playing Ross over him and certainly a huge offensive advantage with Al as opposed to Quinton. Tim Thomas has one thing over Thornton at this point, and that is 3-point shooting. If the Clippers need someone out there to stretch the floor and hit some treys (and TT is actually hitting his shots) then Thomas should be on the court -- otherwise Thornton is better in every aspect of basketball.

As for the injuries, the answer is no. Thornton's a durable guy, he gets hit a lot and I've personally seen him get up from some nasty spills and continue to play. He has a knack for getting his feet taken out from under him when he's skying for a dunk or rebound and landing hard on his back. He's never missed significant time from injury.


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## yamaneko

all of what? the only part directed at you was the last 3 whole sentences. The first paragraph obviously was for the previous post from hobojoe...


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## bootstrenf

hobojoe said:


> I've already told you I don't know, all I know is if a guy comes in and impresses everyone in the organization and everyone knows he's good, he's not going to rot on the bench. Dunleavy will find a way to play him. If Thornton comes in and shows better discipline defensively than he has in the past, there's no defensive advantage in playing Ross over him and certainly a huge offensive advantage with Al as opposed to Quinton. Tim Thomas has one thing over Thornton at this point, and that is 3-point shooting. If the Clippers need someone out there to stretch the floor and hit some treys (and TT is actually hitting his shots) then Thomas should be on the court -- otherwise Thornton is better in every aspect of basketball.
> 
> As for the injuries, the answer is no. Thornton's a durable guy, he gets hit a lot and I've personally seen him get up from some nasty spills and continue to play. He has a knack for getting his feet taken out from under him when he's skying for a dunk or rebound and landing hard on his back. He's never missed significant time from injury.



thanks...


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## bootstrenf

yamaneko said:


> all of what? the only part directed at you was the last 3 whole sentences. The first paragraph obviously was for the previous post from hobojoe...



okay, no problem...


----------



## leidout

Ya know, it's become blatently obvious that the only people who believe Thornton is gonna get significant minutes are non-clipper fans. 

Those of us who've watched pretty much all the games, read most of the articles & listened to all the interviews know that this guy won't break 10 minutes per game without a drastic roster change or firing Dunleavy.


----------



## bootstrenf

leidout said:


> Ya know, it's become blatently obvious that the only people who believe Thornton is gonna get significant minutes are non-clipper fans.
> 
> Those of us who've watched pretty much all the games, read most of the articles & listened to all the interviews know that this guy won't break 10 minutes per game without a drastic roster change or firing Dunleavy.




how often was our team 100% healthy the last two years??? 

depth is something we need, and i'm glad to have someone of al's caliber ready to go just in case...practices should be a lot more interesting now as maggs and ross have someone else to push them...

all around, i see this pick being very beneficial to our team...


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## yamaneko

Yes, how much injury have we had over the last two years, and we had an eerily similar player in singleton, and how much playing time did our injuries net him? I didnt see maggette and ross really pressured with singleton pushing them.


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## TakingitbyStorm

I think he will be able to get minutes easily and watch and usually record every Clipper game. I think he will be able to get the same minutes that so many feel that Nick could have come in and "competed" for from Mobley. Maggette moves to the SG position, Al plays the SF. I also would like to point out that getting minutes in my definition means around 5-10 in the beginning of the season, then maybe 15-20 the second half. I Al proves his worth, then the coachs will find the minutes.

This is not a knock on Young, but I like Thornton's overall potential to be an impact player. I'm not so sure young has the drive to go up the ladder once he actually dons an NBA jersey. I think he will be a good player though.


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## yamaneko

So despite even a regression on maggette already poor ball handling skills, all of a sudden dunleavvy changes his mind and decides he can play maggette at SG? Dunleavvy was so adamaent not to have maggette at SG, that he spent 40 million or whatever on mobley. It it within the realm of possibility? Sure, but again, were talking about something that has to happen that goes against everything dunleavvy has said in the past. 

Where specifically are the minutes going to come from if dunleavvy decides he needs ross again to overcome cassell's lack of defense? Maggette for sure is the guy at SF off of the bench, and barring foul trouble will get his 30 mins a game. Brand and thomas up front with kaman. Id like to see someone perhaps chart where his minutes are going to come from. Unless he all of a sudden makes the transition from college power forward to NBA shooting guard, i dont see the minutes. 

Fine, here is my chart, based on last years numbers:

Center - 48 minutes - Kaman 29 minutes, thomas 13 minutes, brand 6 minutes
PF - Brand 33 minutes, thomas 10 minutes, singleton 5 minutes (thornton takes over here)
SF - Ross 10 minutes, Maggette 30 minutes, singleton 2 minutes, thomas 4 minutes, Mobley 2 minutes

So where do the minutes come from other than singleton. I even only put ross's mintuse at that position at 10, and thats pretty generous. 

The only way i can see him getting playing time again is if something that is not the case now happens:
1. Trade
2. Injury
3. he learns to play a position hes never played before.


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## hobojoe

leidout said:


> Ya know, it's become blatently obvious that the only people who believe Thornton is gonna get significant minutes are non-clipper fans.
> 
> Those of us who've watched pretty much all the games, read most of the articles & listened to all the interviews know that this guy won't break 10 minutes per game without a drastic roster change or firing Dunleavy.


And how many of you Clipper fans have seen Al Thornton play more than maybe one time in four years? FSU never made the tournament and were almost never on National TV, he's as unknown as a college senior NBA prospect could possibly be. I'm telling you, if he doesn't play the Clippers are flat out not trying to win basketball games. It's in their best interest for him to at least be the 6th man. 

Look at the quote from Dunleavy I posted earlier, it doesn't sound like he's _that_ against playing Maggette at the 2:

“In a situation like this draft where it was a strong draft, you need to come away with somebody that can contribute. That is what our goal was. We missed the playoffs by one game last year. The last day of the season cost us the playoffs and because of that we wanted to add to what we already have. If Corey [Maggette] were to be injured, Al Thornton could step in and start for us. *If Cuttino Mobley were to be injured we could drop Corey down to two and Al could play the three. We thought he was a really good pick for us.”*


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## TakingitbyStorm

Well that is at least what Dunleavy has already said himself. That was in a situation where Mobley goes down. As for the breakdown, you can take those 10min you have ross at SF and give them to Al. Like I said 5-10 in the beginning, and that's probably more to get adjusted to playing nba D, then as his D prowess gets better, or he starts to impact on offense he should be able to get 15-20min by the second half of the season.


----------



## MR. VADA

HKF said:


> Maggette is going to opt out next summer anyway. So is Brand.


maggs is gone or traded, brand is gonna stay 'cause he's branching out to hollywood...vada


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## MR. VADA

yamaneko said:


> hobojoe, again i disagree. Nick young also meets other clipper needs, not just based on the position he plays. Nick young has superstar potential with the way he plays the game. He has the mentality to take over games down the stretch. You always take need over player unless youre talking about something ridiculous. And thornton is not ridiculously nor obviously a great deal more talented than nick young. And you look at comparable by age, and what nick young did at his age, compared to where thornton was at the same age.
> 
> Now, new orleans you could argue it more. Julian wright is top 5 talent. SO they went with him instead of young since he dropped. If clippers picked wright over young, i wouldnt have liked it, but i would have been fine with it. Wright is someone, that if he was picked 4 or 5, people would not have batted an eye, he has that talent, not to mention the age.


well i think its obvious that we "need" a new small forward since maggs is leaving. that's why we drafted him...vada


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## bootstrenf

yamaneko said:


> Yes, how much injury have we had over the last two years, and we had an eerily similar player in singleton, and how much playing time did our injuries net him? I didnt see maggette and ross really pressured with singleton pushing them.



besides the fact that they're athletic and play the same position, i don't really see them as eerily similar...

thornton can create for himself off the dribble and can create shots for himself...when was the last time singleton took someone off the dribble???

singleton seemed like a broke-man's version of marion in that he was high energy type player who could board, get a few putbacks and occasionally hit the 3...


thornton seems so much more polished in terms of offense and singleton was no where near the offensive player...

and with thornton's athleticism, i feel that he could be an even better defender than js...


----------



## MR. VADA

hobojoe said:


> We can agree to disagree then, but I guarantee you Thornton will be playing significant minutes for the Clippers this season. There's no doubt in my mind he's going to come in and impress the coaching staff enough to the point where they have no choice but to find time for him to play. I really do think he is a level above Nick Young and that the Clippers made the right pick, and I really like both players -- I just think Thornton is better and worth not taking a pure SG with a more consistent outside shot at this point.


you guy's forget that the clippers wanted someone who could come right in and play. that's why he's a clipper. i agree with you hobojoe and i agree with you yam, but wait till the summer leauge...i wouldn't be surprised if thornton isn't in the top five of the best players if not the best...and i think we picked him over nick because he is more mature mentaly and physicaly...how come you guy's can't see that...everything is fine, were in the playoffs and this team with (or without) "broke back francis" is way better and more experianced than the team that lost to phx. dumblevy has phx number. remember phx couldn't beat us with all there players in phx on the last couple of days of the season with stoudamire...that say's a lot...we cummin, oops i mean commin'...vada


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## MR. VADA

yamaneko said:


> But for the 1000th time, where/who is he going to take minutes from. I figured zero as it stood when he was drafted. But now that singleton was cut thats guaranteed 5 minutes every few games. But the fact remains, ross is a favorite of dunleavvy, especially to counter cassells inability to guard anyone. Maggette people on here say is this teams 2nd best player. Thomas is another dunleavvy favorite. So who are you guaranteeing he is going to take significant minutes from.
> 
> Age to me doesn't have much to do with injuries unless your'e like sam cassell. Age has to do with peak and improvement graph. most stars are stars or pretty much near stars in the nba by 24. Not getting third team all american in college.


 you know what yam? i think he'll get time on his defense alone. if he's anything like ross on the defenseive end, you'll have to pencil him in...oh and i predict a corey maggette injury that will allow you to see him in some real action...im thrilled, **** is looking up...vada


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## MR. VADA

leidout said:


> Ya know, it's become blatently obvious that the only people who believe Thornton is gonna get significant minutes are non-clipper fans.
> 
> Those of us who've watched pretty much all the games, read most of the articles & listened to all the interviews know that this guy won't break 10 minutes per game without a drastic roster change or firing Dunleavy.


i've been down with the clips longer than all of you if your younger than 29...we have never drafted an al thornton. trust me he'll play over davis, diaz, jordan, willams and ross sometimes. dunlevy can't play a player like singleton over maggs if maggs is making millions, explain that to sterling...(and **** what they said about his practice habits singleton was an animal in practice no doubt, they just felt embarrased that a bench player making less than a mil ticket requested a trade.) and last time i checked thornton will be making more than ross...and korolev doesn't count if you say ross played over him...thornton will play especialy since we didn't get nick. dumblevy knows we all wanted nick and he wants to prove us wrong...korolev wasn't a bust, dumblevy is...i'm starting to think leidout is mike dumblevy...so maybe he won't play...vada


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## MR. VADA

yamaneko said:


> Yes, how much injury have we had over the last two years, and we had an eerily similar player in singleton, and how much playing time did our injuries net him? I didnt see maggette and ross really pressured with singleton pushing them.


then we should be like the yankees and fire the trainer. is san antonio's trainer avalible?...vada


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## DaFranchise

bootstrenf said:


> besides the fact that they're athletic and play the same position, i don't really see them as eerily similar...
> 
> thornton can create for himself off the dribble and can create shots for himself...when was the last time singleton took someone off the dribble???
> 
> singleton seemed like a broke-man's version of marion in that he was high energy type player who could board, get a few putbacks and occasionally hit the 3...
> 
> 
> thornton seems so much more polished in terms of offense and singleton was no where near the offensive player...
> 
> and with thornton's athleticism, i feel that he could be an even better defender than js...


Yeah all Singleton did was post back to back doubles when given a decent amount of playing time. Singleton got screwed over by Dumbleavy and his boring *** offensive system. If given ample playing time he will be next years Matt Barnes. Oh yeah we had him too. Good job Dumbleavy
I am not a Thornton hater I just wish we could have drafted some backcourt help. Now we are going to rely on Stevie Franchise who has only been the playoffs once in his entire career. His *** better be playing for the minimum if signed


----------



## TakingitbyStorm

DaFranchise said:


> Now we are going to rely on Stevie Franchise who has only been the playoffs once in his entire career. His *** better be playing for the minimum if signed


And I would'a thought with a name like DaFranchise you would have loved this move. :thinking2:


----------



## leidout

hobojoe said:


> And how many of you Clipper fans have seen Al Thornton play more than maybe one time in four years? FSU never made the tournament and were almost never on National TV, he's as unknown as a college senior NBA prospect could possibly be. I'm telling you, if he doesn't play the Clippers are flat out not trying to win basketball games. It's in their best interest for him to at least be the 6th man.
> 
> Look at the quote from Dunleavy I posted earlier, it doesn't sound like he's _that_ against playing Maggette at the 2:
> 
> “In a situation like this draft where it was a strong draft, you need to come away with somebody that can contribute. That is what our goal was. We missed the playoffs by one game last year. The last day of the season cost us the playoffs and because of that we wanted to add to what we already have. If Corey [Maggette] were to be injured, Al Thornton could step in and start for us. *If Cuttino Mobley were to be injured we could drop Corey down to two and Al could play the three. We thought he was a really good pick for us.”*


His time at FSU is part of the reason i'm not so crazy about him, he's 23 on a bad team, playing against teenagers. The way most of you talk about him, you make him sound like he's a superstar. I've always preferred drafting guys who play against the highest competition, because of this, Thornton is gonna get a shock when he gets into the NBA.

And Dunleavy is counting on injury eh? Great. And what if nobody gets hurt? Also, did we waive Tim Thomas & Quentin Ross or something? Because i know for damn sure Dunleavy isn't gonna put a rookie in the starting lineup unless you hold a gun to his head.

I think it's pretty safe to say he had nothing to do with this pick and is trying to figure out how to make it work.


----------



## TakingitbyStorm

And who does all the other rookies play against when they are in college? The whole basis of him being older is that he will be able to make the transition that much quicker. 

I am much happy with a guy like that, than a person like Livingston who because he was still growing was pretty clumsy. I would cringe every time I saw him come down awkward. 

Also I don't know what the highest competition you are talking about, but surely you can't be suggesting the ACC is some walk in the park?


----------



## DaFranchise

TakingitbyStorm said:


> And I would'a thought with a name like DaFranchise you would have loved this move. :thinking2:


Yeah I know. There is an actual story behind my nickname but I dont want to bore you guys to death.


----------



## hobojoe

leidout said:


> His time at FSU is part of the reason i'm not so crazy about him, he's 23 on a bad team, playing against teenagers. The way most of you talk about him, you make him sound like he's a superstar. I've always preferred drafting guys who play against the highest competition, because of this, Thornton is gonna get a shock when he gets into the NBA.
> 
> And Dunleavy is counting on injury eh? Great. And what if nobody gets hurt? Also, did we waive Tim Thomas & Quentin Ross or something? Because i know for damn sure Dunleavy isn't gonna put a rookie in the starting lineup unless you hold a gun to his head.
> 
> I think it's pretty safe to say he had nothing to do with this pick and is trying to figure out how to make it work.


:laugh: 

If I didn't know any better I'd think you were kidding. I'm not sure if you know this, but FSU plays in the ACC. You know, the Atlantic Coast Conference, the best conference in the nation. What "higher competition" would you like from an NBA draftee? He's not in for a shock, if anything he'll be salivating at the idea of being single covered -- he hasn't got to do that in years.


----------



## yamaneko

> besides the fact that they're athletic and play the same position, i don't really see them as eerily similar...
> thornton can create for himself off the dribble and can create shots for himself...when was the last time singleton took someone off the dribble???
> singleton seemed like a broke-man's version of marion in that he was high energy type player who could board, get a few putbacks and occasionally hit the 3...
> thornton seems so much more polished in terms of offense and singleton was no where near the offensive player...
> and with thornton's athleticism, i feel that he could be an even better defender than js...


I guess we just have different evaluations. Singleton did occasionally create off the drible, mainly when he was the man, which was rare...only the few games where he had garbage duty, or for example the dallas game where he was the "star" of the team. Singleton played excellent defense against guys like dirk, and also seemed to alter tons of shots with his anticipation, and blocked a few too. What you said about singleton above is pretty much exactly what i see in thornton. Heck, they even put up similar numbers, singleton playing professionally in europe, thornton in the ACC. 

And for whoever said were a playoff team. Wow. Were probably the 2nd or third worst team as it stands now in the entire western conference.


----------



## yamaneko

I think what some mean is that if thornton is going to be as good as many say he is, you have to compare him at his age to other stars at that age. And most of those guys, at 23, put them back in the ACC, they would have done better than third team all american.


----------



## TakingitbyStorm

yamaneko said:


> I think what some mean is that if thornton is going to be as good as many say he is, you have to compare him at his age to other stars at that age. And most of those guys, at 23, put them back in the ACC, they would have done better than third team all american.


Really that is not true. You say that as if everyone when they reach a certain age has a certain skill level that is share with everyone else. You are trying to generalize Al, but at the same time it seems you think that Nick Young is something special. You are pleading your case with posters on a fan board, while not looking at the fact that we did not make this decision. It was people who actually get paid to do these things, and they have scouts that do this all year, and they brought N.Y. in twice and got a close up look at him. To say they would have done better is conjecture on your part. The ACC is probably at least the 2nd if not the 1st hardest conference in college basketball. If anything the stats those players put up in worse conferences would go down. Again, just like there are lottery positions in the draft, players are individuals. This is not a cookie cutter process.

The comparison with Singleton is laughable at best. Singleton is hands down a better rebounder and shot blocker. Al is better shooter, can create in ways that Singleton cannot, can elevate better than Singleton, and has a frame that is more suited for the NBA. They are not the same.

There is a mindset that is dominating some about this pick. I would just like to share my honest opinion. The conference that Al comes from has more respect for producing NBA players than the one that Nick comes from. This seems to be the case in the scouting world. We can try to lump it all together, but we should look at what is being based upon to come to this conclusion.

And as far as being the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the Western conference, I beg to differ. Usually the teams that keep their core players intact are the teams that do the best. I think we are actually passing a lot of teams in the West and they don't even know it. I think it was good we had slump year, because teams will sleep again like they did when we rolled into the playoffs, after having multiple losing streaks midseason.

All of this is just my opinion.


----------



## MR. VADA

man some of you guys are the most un-optimistic fans i've ever chatted with. i would assume that being an optimistic person is the main reason your a clippers fan...think positive. too much negitive energy. we are underdogz, and we will be underdogz until we win a ring and i feel that we're knocking on jim o'brians door...WE WILL BE FINE...yeah the west got tougher, but if kaman shows up, and cassell im certain we make the playoffs like sam said about a week ago...were better than some of you think. and if we get stevie he'll rejuvinate his career like sammy did when he got here...have faith my brothers...vada


----------



## MR. VADA

TakingitbyStorm said:


> Really that is not true. You say that as if everyone when they reach a certain age has a certain skill level that is share with everyone else. You are trying to generalize Al, but at the same time it seems you think that Nick Young is something special. You are pleading your case with posters on a fan board, while not looking at the fact that we did not make this decision. It was people who actually get paid to do these things, and they have scouts that do this all year, and they brought N.Y. in twice and got a close up look at him. To say they would have done better is conjecture on your part. The ACC is probably at least the 2nd if not the 1st hardest conference in college basketball. If anything the stats those players put up in worse conferences would go down. Again, just like there are lottery positions in the draft, players are individuals. This is not a cookie cutter process.
> 
> The comparison with Singleton is laughable at best. Singleton is hands down a better rebounder and shot blocker. Al is better shooter, can create in ways that Singleton cannot, can elevate better than Singleton, and has a frame that is more suited for the NBA. They are not the same.
> 
> There is a mindset that is dominating some about this pick. I would just like to share my honest opinion. The conference that Al comes from has more respect for producing NBA players than the one that Nick comes from. This seems to be the case in the scouting world. We can try to lump it all together, but we should look at what is being based upon to come to this conclusion.
> 
> And as far as being the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the Western conference, I beg to differ. Usually the teams that keep their core players intact are the teams that do the best. I think we are actually passing a lot of teams in the West and they don't even know it. I think it was good we had slump year, because teams will sleep again like they did when we rolled into the playoffs, after having multiple losing streaks midseason.
> 
> All of this is just my opinion.


man if al can get up higher tha singleton, that means we made the right pick. nick young is a great person but he lacks intensity sometimes and maturity. al plays at 100% all the time. so when maggs decides not to show up like he did in the sacramento game, al will be running on all cylinders...vada


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## qross1fan

2nd or 3rd worst in the conference? Wow, the Grizzlies, Blazers and Sonics are worse, guaranteed. I believe we are better then the Kings, Hornets, Lakers, Warriors and Wolves, and pretty equal to the Jazz, Nuggets and just behind the Rockets. Grizzlies and Blazers will be exceptional squads in a few years, but I doubt they make the playoffs this, Sonics, I just can't seem to be interested in. Kings did nothing big in the draft, and haven't improved yet, and we have, so we are better. Lakers drafted 3 pure projects, while we got an impact player. They finshed 2 games up on us, I believe we more then amde the difference. Hornets and Wolves we should be better then, as I don't think their rosters are as good as ours. Warriors season hinges on Davis, mainly with JRich out of town. Now, unless they make a solid move in FA, I don't see them making a splash again. Wright is solid, but can he play right away? The Jazz roster, and ours, are pretty similar. We both have a solid post player, a legit center, a defensive SF. They have the advantage at PG, as we got no clue what will happen, but we have the advantage at the offguard position. Nuggets might have a superior roster on PAPER, but I believe chemistry might end up being an issue, or they will not gel like they did not last year. Rockets have many holes, but have T-Mac and Yao. So, only four teams which are better, in my opinion, barring injury, are the Mavs, Spurs, Rockets and Suns.

Stop with all this damn pessimism.


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## MR. VADA

very well said brother q ross...vada


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## bootstrenf

MR. VADA said:


> very well said brother q ross...vada



+1


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## yamaneko

> Really that is not true. You say that as if everyone when they reach a certain age has a certain skill level that is share with everyone else. You are trying to generalize Al, but at the same time it seems you think that Nick Young is something special.


Yes, its fact. People were claiming that its guaranteed that thornton would become a star in this league. A while back I simply pointed to the fact that the top 40 or so scorers in the league last year at his position all were much farther along at his age than he was. So, by definition, for thornton do become like them, he will have to do something that no one his age in quite a while has done. Impossible? No, but again, i like to go with the odds. Nick young being special? I dont remember saying that. Ive said a million times, he fits better into what we needed at the time for the team. Ive said time and again its about team need. The position he plays, his take over game mentality, his origin (LA), his age, he had everything going for him that we would need from a 14th pick. Hes not worlds better than thornton individually, i never ever have said that..just a better fit.


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## yamaneko

> You are pleading your case with posters on a fan board, while not looking at the fact that we did not make this decision. It was people who actually get paid to do these things, and they have scouts that do this all year, and they brought N.Y. in twice and got a close up look at him.


No, im not pleading "my case" with anyone. Im pleading the people who are guaranteeing sucess, and guaranteeing why this pick was good to please use facts instead of fiction. I have made charts begging ones to tell me where all of his playing time is going to come from. Made analysis of why people think he will be guaranteed star when its pretty much unprecedented for someone his age. But no one seems to be able to do it other than, "he has a lot of talent, and somehow will find a way into the rotation." I could care less what we think the clippers did to scout him, we never even took him in for a private workout of ours. Besides that, are you saying that the clippers themselves are all knowning? Like when they drooled over lionel chalmers after a private workout? When they fell in love with korolev after 2 years of scouting? When they selected paul davis over other bigs who have done better?


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## TakingitbyStorm

MR. VADA said:


> man if al can get up higher tha singleton, that means we made the right pick. nick young is a great person but he lacks intensity sometimes and maturity. al plays at 100% all the time. so when maggs decides not to show up like he did in the sacramento game, al will be running on all cylinders...vada


I was actually talking about getting up higher, because that I don't know, I was referring to his ability to use his ups in motions like rebounding and shooting.


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## yamaneko

> To say they would have done better is conjecture on your part. The ACC is probably at least the 2nd if not the 1st hardest conference in college basketball. If anything the stats those players put up in worse conferences would go down.


Wrong again. All of those players i mentioned were already stars, or solid nba starters at the same age as thornton. So i think its safe to assume, that is youre a star in the nba, or a solid starter already, that you would have done better than 3rd team all america in college. 



> The comparison with Singleton is laughable at best. Singleton is hands down a better rebounder and shot blocker. Al is better shooter, can create in ways that Singleton cannot, can elevate better than Singleton, and has a frame that is more suited for the NBA. They are not the same


Lets see, theyre both 6'8" 220lbs. They are both athletic, and from the games and highlights i have seen, neither i would say necessarily superior to the other in that department. Id have to agree singleton slightly the better shot blocker. Not sure what you say about the frame as both are almost identical in size. Also not sure about thornton being the better three point shooter. Singleton when given time can shoot, we all saw the dallas game. We all saw the numbers he put up in italy. Creating off of the dribble, i saw singleton do it every now and then, but that really wasnt his job in his 5 minutes a game. 



> The conference that Al comes from has more respect for producing NBA players than the one that Nick comes from. This seems to be the case in the scouting world. We can try to lump it all together, but we should look at what is being based upon to come to this conclusion.


Again, were talking about team need. You cant seperate too much the two in their abilities, so you go with the sure thing, not the chance that someone can transition from PF to SG. I guess chase budinger than should be passed over next year since he plays in the pac 10. Regardless, when you have two similar skill level players, you go for the position that you have need at, and the intangibles involved as well. 



> And as far as being the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the Western conference, I beg to differ.


Then please go to the other thread that i started and did a detailed analysis of each team as it stands now, and please tell me which teams i said were better than the clippers are not. I too did not realize how bad the clippers were compared to the other teams until i sat down and looked at the roster of each team. Its mind boggling.


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## yamaneko

> man some of you guys are the most un-optimistic fans i've ever chatted with. i would assume that being an optimistic person is the main reason your a clippers fan...think positive. too much negitive energy.


Its not being negative, its just being realistic. When youre not realistic, you set yourself up for a big time let down, especially when you consider this team. 



> 2nd or 3rd worst in the conference? Wow, the Grizzlies, Blazers and Sonics are worse, guaranteed.


How are the blazers worse than us? Grizzlies its not a given, and sonics possibly nwo that they lost lewis. Please, which part of our rosters do we have the advantage on with some of those other teams? Pleaes go back to my western conference OJ Mayo thread and tell me which of my comparisons you disagree with. I think right now, were better for sure than lakers, possibly seattle and sacramento, but im not sure of much else looking at the rosters as it stands now. 

Denver, despite not geling like you say still did way better than us. We havent leap frogged any teams ahead of us other than lakers perhaps, and yet everyone else stayed the same or got better. But again, instead of just making generalized statements, tell me which of my comparisons was wrong in that other thread...i think youll be surprised when you look at the rosters that some of these western conference teams have..


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## TakingitbyStorm

yamaneko said:


> Yes, its fact. People were claiming that its guaranteed that thornton would become a star in this league. A while back I simply pointed to the fact that the top 40 or so scorers in the league last year at his position all were much farther along at his age than he was. So, by definition, for thornton do become like them, he will have to do something that no one his age in quite a while has done. Impossible? No, but again, i like to go with the odds. Nick young being special? I dont remember saying that. Ive said a million times, he fits better into what we needed at the time for the team. Ive said time and again its about team need. The position he plays, his take over game mentality, his origin (LA), his age, he had everything going for him that we would need from a 14th pick. Hes not worlds better than thornton individually, i never ever have said that..just a better fit.


You are not taking in account that there are a lot of college teams that play a lot of different ways. You see a lot of players playing out of their would be positions in the NBA for the sake of the team needs. To make a blanket statement like saying you could take the top 40 best players and put them in the ACC they would be further along than Al at 23 is assumption. It would depend on each situation. Really it appears you are saying these 40 players because they have picked up the NBA game in their window of learning are not over the hill so the will be better than AL could ever hope to. He will be a rookie no matter what his age, and the fact that he is actually more mature bodes well for his growth. He may not be able to optimize as many years playing in the NBA, but I think that point negligible. Also most would realize that the fact that you play at higher level than you competition is the main indicator for NBA teams choosing players in the Draft...yes, it's still a crapshoot, but it's the best way to judge talent. 
I am not Saying that Al is going to be a star in this league, but I do like his potential in that category.

As far as the Nick Young thing, it appears that you have some level of homerism for this player because you probably watched him play in college. I watch ACC ball because I live in ACC land so I do it too. I could be wrong though. 
I think if Clippers FO would have picked him ignoring some huge red flags in his background, then they would have been geniuses in you eyes, but now they get slaughtered. They were not the only team that had needs in their backcourt that passed on Nick. 
We should also be seeing now that they have had at least a plan to address this area, and it does not include rookies. 

The reality is there is a real chance we could loose Maggs. There is also a reality that fans want the Clippers to win now. Critten, Young, T.Young(I wanted) were not going to help to much in that department. Most agree that the Clippers chose the right player. I didn't hear analyst saying "what were the Clippers thinking, they already have Singleton."

I agree that it's no guarantee that Thornton will be a star in the NBA. All I am saying is that if you look at the fact that he really was a track star(like Maggette, and maybe we could compare their respect games at 23) who took a year to work on his Bball career(age 23), his desire and domination in a short period of time, and where he is already and most including those ouside of Dun and Co. think he hasn't begun to tap his potential, then you can begin to see why some may be quick to jump to conclusions.


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## TakingitbyStorm

yamaneko said:


> No, im not pleading "my case" with anyone. Im pleading the people who are guaranteeing sucess, and guaranteeing why this pick was good to please use facts instead of fiction. I have made charts begging ones to tell me where all of his playing time is going to come from. Made analysis of why people think he will be guaranteed star when its pretty much unprecedented for someone his age. But no one seems to be able to do it other than, "he has a lot of talent, and somehow will find a way into the rotation." I could care less what we think the clippers did to scout him, we never even took him in for a private workout of ours. Besides that, are you saying that the clippers themselves are all knowning? Like when they drooled over lionel chalmers after a private workout? When they fell in love with korolev after 2 years of scouting? When they selected paul davis over other bigs who have done better?


I have told you my stance on Al POTENTIAL to be a star, and where his minutes will come from. Anything else without actually seeing him at least in preseason play would be tomfoolery. :cheers:


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## hobojoe

The whole "he's only a 3rd team All-American" garbage is ridiculous. The fact that he was on an All-American team playing for Florida St. is a huge accomplishment in itself. He was the only guy of the 15 players to be named in the All-American teams to play for a non-Tournament team. And no, there's absolutely no way it was his fault. Who could've made the tournament on FSU taking Thornton's spot? Maybe Kevin Durant... maybe. Not Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Greg Oden or anyone else would've done it with Isiah Swann, Uche Echefu, Jason Rich, Toney Douglas (broke his hand) or the talent on FSU playing in the ACC. Being 23 has nothing to do with it, Thornton would've been on the All-Rookie 1st team last season with how crappy this rookie class was.


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## Futurama_Fanatic

until we see a game with thornton in it, we will not know how good he is. so let's just stop all this speculation cuz it's really annoying


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## yamaneko

> You are not taking in account that there are a lot of college teams that play a lot of different ways. You see a lot of players playing out of their would be positions in the NBA for the sake of the team needs. To make a blanket statement like saying you could take the top 40 best players and put them in the ACC they would be further along than Al at 23 is assumption.


No, its not really an assumption when were talking about the best players at a position on the NBA. People who by that age were already stars in the nba, or proven solid guys. It would be an assumption to say that all of a sudden if put in college, that they would do WORSE in college competition than in the NBA. 



> I am not Saying that Al is going to be a star in this league, but I do like his potential in that category.


But other people are, and thats when i took offense to other people saying that when all signs point to the opposite. 



> As far as the Nick Young thing, it appears that you have some level of homerism for this player because you probably watched him play in college.


Yes, ive never hid the fact that one of the reasons too to go for young is because hes a local. I even have more personal reasons too since my friend is friends with him, and already when I talked to nick before he said hed always give us tickets to the games if the clippers picked him. But it would only be blatent homerism if i was saying clippers should pick him at Number 7 or something. Even i said that before thornton i would have preferred other guys which have nothing to do with california like bellineli, fernandez, stuckey, etc. Homerism is just gravy IMO to picking him..an added bonus that hes from here.


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## yamaneko

> I think if Clippers FO would have picked him ignoring some huge red flags in his background, then they would have been geniuses in you eyes, but now they get slaughtered. They were not the only team that had needs in their backcourt that passed on Nick.


the ONLY other team that passed on him, around where he was slated to go was New orleans who got julian wright. A top 5 talent guy, a guy even I have said i wouldnt have minded so much the clippers taking over nick young. Sixers, i have no idea what they were thinking, taking thaddeos young who most thought would last until at least 20. Id have taken thornton before taking thaddeous young for that team. They wouldnt have been geniuses taking nick young, theyd just be doing the most logical thing.



> The reality is there is a real chance we could loose Maggs. There is also a reality that fans want the Clippers to win now. Critten, Young, T.Young(I wanted) were not going to help to much in that department. Most agree that the Clippers chose the right player. I didn't hear analyst saying "what were the Clippers thinking, they already have Singleton."


Yes, we can loose him NEXT year. Thats one of the reasons why you take someone like nick young (or stuckey, or bellineli, or fernandez, etc.) . Someone who can step in right away at SG, but also can play SF. Not a PF who might be able to play SF, and who NEVER has played SG. Most critics do not even know james singleton is on the team. When have you really heard, a media guy really know the ins and outs of the clippers. And any of these guys who have said it was a good pick, NOT ONE of them has said where thornton gets his minutes either.


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## yamaneko

> I have told you my stance on Al POTENTIAL to be a star, and where his minutes will come from. Anything else without actually seeing him at least in preseason play would be tomfoolery.


Can you link me to the post? I havent seen where his minutes are coming from other than the post i made breaking down the front court minutes. Please look at last years minutes breakdown, and then tell me how you think it will playout this year. We dont need to see him play in preseason to know he plays the position that we are most deep at, the position it will be hardest to take minutes from. The only way presseason play woudl change that is if all of a sudden he could shoot better than tim thomas, and be way better than our "2nd best player" in maggette. 



> The whole "he's only a 3rd team All-American" garbage is ridiculous. The fact that he was on an All-American team playing for Florida St. is a huge accomplishment in itself.


How is it ridiculous? People say he will be a star, yet i maintain that the current stars at his age would have done better than third team all american if they had to go back to college at that point. Im not saying that being 3rd team all american is anything to scoff at. Im just saying its not much considering his age, and comparing him to star players that people say he will be better than. 



> Being 23 has nothing to do with it, Thornton would've been on the All-Rookie 1st team last season with how crappy this rookie class was.


Not on the clippers. Im not saying this guy is a scrub. He could have challeneged for rookie of the year for all we know last year (doubtful, but who knows), but it would have had to have been in the right situation. Where he clearly is the best SF on the team, and you dont have to try to find minutes for him.


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## TakingitbyStorm

yamaneko said:


> Can you link me to the post? I havent seen where his minutes are coming from other than the post i made breaking down the front court minutes. Please look at last years minutes breakdown, and then tell me how you think it will playout this .
> 
> 
> 
> You ask me to link you to a post that was a response in it's origin to your post.
> 
> You might be multitasking a bit much.
Click to expand...


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## yamaneko

I havent seen any posts that had a breakdown of the minutes of the Clipper front court. You did one? Where?


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## PAIDNFULL23

When will the Clippers have a press conference introducing Thornton? Or did it already happen?


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## hobojoe

yamaneko said:


> How is it ridiculous? People say he will be a star, yet i maintain that the current stars at his age would have done better than third team all american if they had to go back to college at that point. Im not saying that being 3rd team all american is anything to scoff at. Im just saying its not much considering his age, and comparing him to star players that people say he will be better than.


Not playing for Florida State they wouldn't have. That should tell you something about how much the man has improved in college, the fact that he went to Florida State (only other major schools he passed up were Georgia and Cincinnati). He was not highly recruited out of high school because he basically had no basketball skills at all. I guarantee you no player in the country last year except for Kevin Durant would've been a 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-American taking Thornton's spot on FSU.


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## hobojoe

ClippersRuleLA said:


> until we see a game with thornton in it, we will not know how good he is. so let's just stop all this speculation cuz it's really annoying


Right, the dozens of times I've seen him play already don't mean anything -- I have no idea how good of a basketball player he is, I'm just speculating.


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## leidout

hobojoe said:


> He was not highly recruited out of high school because he basically had no basketball skills at all.


We drafted another guy in a similar situation... he tore it up in the build up to the draft, leading people to believe he was an athletic monster, gonna be a superstar... what was his name again???


Oh yeah, now i remember, *Michael Olowokandi*.


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## yamaneko

If florida state was such a terrible team, you should be even more of a star. I dont see the logic there. Only perhaps a true PG wouldnt have done so well if their teammates couldnt finish.

You put a superstar on a crap team, they put up incredible numbers. Take kobe for instance. Heck, look at numbers put up by jared jordan, adonal foyle at colgate. For you to say oden wouldnt have been all america anywhere, is loquito. You look at all america teams since 2003 lets say, youll see all americans fron st. josephs, gonzaga, stanford, miss state, providence, Ok state, texas tech, utah, charlotte, boston college, west virginia, rutgers, louisiana tech, etc. Not exactly power houses, nor not all teams who went deep into the final four. Id say the argument is greater the other way around...you put thornton on a team where he was only the 2nd or third option like say ohio state, florida, would he have gotten all america 3rd team?


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## hobojoe

yamaneko said:


> If florida state was such a terrible team, you should be even more of a star. I dont see the logic there. Only perhaps a true PG wouldnt have done so well if their teammates couldnt finish.
> 
> You put a superstar on a crap team, they put up incredible numbers. Take kobe for instance. Heck, look at numbers put up by jared jordan, adonal foyle at colgate. For you to say oden wouldnt have been all america anywhere, is loquito. You look at all america teams since 2003 lets say, youll see all americans fron st. josephs, gonzaga, stanford, miss state, providence, Ok state, texas tech, utah, charlotte, boston college, west virginia, rutgers, louisiana tech, etc. Not exactly power houses, nor not all teams who went deep into the final four. Id say the argument is greater the other way around...you put thornton on a team where he was only the 2nd or third option like say ohio state, florida, would he have gotten all america 3rd team?


Putting up 23.5 ppg in the ACC doesn't qualify as an incredible number? 

And Al Thornton's desire and work ethic is the polar opposite of Michael Olowokandi's, so don't bring that in here.


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## shaunliv

yamaneko-
i can't believe your concrete feelings for a player that hasn't played 1 minute for the clipps yet (were you an ACC fanatic and know something about Thornton that everyone else doesn't?). if by a miracle, he ends up being a decent player will you be ready to admit it? Just let him play at least one summer league game before you start dismissing him! you're gonna seem like such a fool if he ends up being good.


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## bootstrenf

leidout said:


> We drafted another guy in a similar situation... he tore it up in the build up to the draft, leading people to believe he was an athletic monster, gonna be a superstar... what was his name again???
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, now i remember, *Michael Olowokandi*.



you're comparing thornton to the kandi man??? 

atlantic coast conference = lots of talent; thornton dominated his competition...

big west conference = not a lot of talent; kandi dominated his competition...

i think there is a huge difference...


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## yamaneko

> Putting up 23.5 ppg in the ACC doesn't qualify as an incredible number?


He averaged less than 20 over the season. Nothing to scoff at, and worthy of a top 15 pick. But not by a team who doesnt need that position, and certainly not what the stars some are comparing him to would have done had they had to go back to college at that age. 



> i can't believe your concrete feelings for a player that hasn't played 1 minute for the clipps yet (were you an ACC fanatic and know something about Thornton that everyone else doesn't?). if by a miracle, he ends up being a decent player will you be ready to admit it? Just let him play at least one summer league game before you start dismissing him! you're gonna seem like such a fool if he ends up being good.


You couldnt be more wrong with almost everything you said there. I have just stated facts. If youd read my posts, no where have i said is thornton garbage. Over and over again ive said things such as he could perhaps have been a starter and big time scorer on team like charlotte. However, its just a fact, theres no getting around it, that as it stands now, he was not the right pick for us due to his position being our deepest. And as it stands now with our coach, theres no way he gets playingtime UNLESS there is a drastic change: Trade, injury, dunleavvy all of a sudden not wanting ross to play defense for cassell, thornton miraculously learning how to play SG. Now, of course i dont wish injury on anyone, but i would be more than happy with any of the other miracles to happen. Do you think I dont want thornton to do well? No, thats ridiculous. I wish every player on the clippers, from the best brand, to the worst, will conroy or whatever become superstars. However, we do have to be realistic. And right now realism says that unless there are major changes, thornton isnt going to get playing time on this team, much less become a star.


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## cpawfan

This thread is hilarious

Comparing Singleton to Thornton is mind boggling dumb, but please keep it up because it gets funnier with every attempt. I'm a huge fan of Singleton, but he can't carry Thornton's jock on offense.

The over estimation of Nick Young is also ridiculous. Plus calling for a draft by position instead of best available player is a huge mistake.

The Clippers drafted the better player, but I guess after all the years of draft mistakes too many people make poor assumptions about the player picked by the team.


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## hobojoe

yamaneko said:


> He averaged less than 20 over the season. Nothing to scoff at, and worthy of a top 15 pick. But not by a team who doesnt need that position, and certainly not what the stars some are comparing him to would have done had they had to go back to college at that age.


You can't just look at stats like that. Dude was a big game player and he put up the stats in close games and when the team needed it, see pretty much every in conference game. Does it make him less of a player because he only put up 11 points in 14 minutes against Providence because FSU won by 30 and didn't need him out there in the 2nd half? Or when he put up 14 in another double-digit win against St. Peters? Or 10 points in a 20 point blowout of Stetson? Or 10 points in a 26 point win over SE Louisiana. The list goes on and on, Thornton didn't put up his big games against the cupcake teams FSU played, he played big minutes and attacked relentlessly in the big games for FSU. I'm telling you, you should've seen him putting up 27 in the second half against Virginia Tech to will his team to victory. Or putting up 45 on the road against Miami in a must win game. Or putting up half the team's points (literally) while his teammates stink up the joint in Chapel Hill. He just had no help at Florida State, the fact that they won 8 games in the ACC is a true testament to how good Thornton was.


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## squeemu

cpawfan said:


> The over estimation of Nick Young is also ridiculous. Plus calling for a draft by position instead of best available player is a huge mistake.
> 
> The Clippers drafted the better player, but I guess after all the years of draft mistakes too many people make poor assumptions about the player picked by the team.


If the Clippers had gone for Young or Crittenton, and Thornton went to a different team and turned out to be a star, everyone would say "OMG THE CLIPPERS PASSED ON THORNTON!!!!!!"

No matter what the Clippers do, they are screwed, and their "fans" are ready to crucify them for every move they make. Reading these message boards gets really depressing sometimes. Way too much negativity.


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## B_&_B

*Re: nick is ours...*



matador1238 said:


> Bye Bye Maggette....


I think Thornton was a good pick for the Clippers... and now please send Maggette up north to Portland. :biggrin:


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## bootstrenf

*Re: nick is ours...*



 B_&_B said:


> I think Thornton was a good pick for the Clippers... and now please send Maggette up north to Portland. :biggrin:



send down jack and martell and we have a deal!!!

sergio and martell would be better though...


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## shaunliv

yamaneko said:


> ...And right now realism says that unless there are major changes, thornton isnt going to get playing time on this team, much less become a star.


any *realism* says, "you cannot judge a player you HAVEN'T seen play for the team yet!


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## TakingitbyStorm

yamaneko said:


> _Yes, we can loose him NEXT year. Thats one of the reasons why you take someone like nick young (or stuckey, or bellineli, or fernandez, etc.) . Someone who can step in right away at SG, but also can play SF. Not a PF who might be able to play SF, and who NEVER has played SG. Most critics do not even know james singleton is on the team. When have you really heard, a media guy really know the ins and outs of the clippers. And any of these guys who have said it was a good pick, NOT ONE of them has said where thornton gets his minutes either_.


I think that it would be in his and our best interest if he were not a rookie if we are really trying to make a push and are not in rebuilding mode. We have enough players to hold down the position if a trade were to go down, but I don't think that would be smart. 

Also you can see the logic in NO picking a guy like Wright because he 'fell' to them and was a top 5 talent, but when Al who was slated to go as high as 8 on some mocks(Ford and Ainge both said he was worthy of #5) then all of a sudden it's different? 
Not to get back on Nick, but both teams seem to have used the same logic.


*Conjecture *= _guess: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence 
reasoning that involves the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence_


> _No, its not really an *assumption* when were talking about the best players at a position on the NBA. _


*Assumption*_:a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn_;


> _So i think its safe to *assume*, that is youre a star in the nba, or a solid starter already, that you would have done better than 3rd team all america in college._





> _But other people are, and thats when i took offense to other people saying that when all signs point to the opposite_
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

I feel that he definitely can and like his potential to, I just don't think it will be "Just add water" Stardome. But I definitely don't agree with the "all signs point to the opposite." mantra.


> _I havent seen any posts that had a breakdown of the minutes of the Clipper front court. You did one? Where?_


I never said I did any "breakdown of the minutes of the Clipper front court", nor was that what you originally asked me to provide for you.
But as a favor, I went and got the original post as per earlier in this thread.


> *Well that is at least what Dunleavy has already said himself. That was in a situation where Mobley goes down. As for the breakdown, you can take those 10min you have ross at SF and give them to Al. Like I said 5-10 in the beginning, and that's probably more to get adjusted to playing nba D, then as his D prowess gets better, or he starts to impact on offense he should be able to get 15-20min by the second half of the season*.


And earlier than that in this thread.


> *
> I think he will be able to get minutes easily and watch and usually record every Clipper game. I think he will be able to get the same minutes that so many feel that Nick could have come in and "competed" for from Mobley. Maggette moves to the SG position, Al plays the SF. I also would like to point out that getting minutes in my definition means around 5-10 in the beginning of the season, then maybe 15-20 the second half. I Al proves his worth, then the coachs will find the minutes.*


I have said my stance on mins 3 times now.


----------



## Showtime87

cpawfan said:


> This thread is hilarious
> 
> Comparing Singleton to Thornton is mind boggling dumb, but please keep it up because it gets funnier with every attempt. I'm a huge fan of Singleton, but he can't carry Thornton's jock on offense.
> 
> The over estimation of Nick Young is also ridiculous. Plus calling for a draft by position instead of best available player is a huge mistake.
> 
> The Clippers drafted the better player, but I guess after all the years of draft mistakes too many people make poor assumptions about the player picked by the team.


Yep. Been saying this since draft day but some people in this thread just won't give it up. Nick Young was not going to be any kind of savior for this team, why so many were enamored with him I cannot begin to understand. The Clippers made the right choice and all the detractors in this thread will have a much different opinion once the season starts. And the Michael Olowokandi comparison: that's so utterly ridiculous it's not even worth commenting on.


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## yamaneko

> Comparing Singleton to Thornton is mind boggling dumb, but please keep it up because it gets funnier with every attempt. I'm a huge fan of Singleton, but he can't carry Thornton's jock on offense.


Its mind boggling dumb to assert otherwise. same size, same athletic abillities, same ability to hit the three, similar defense, about same age, strong offensive game when they are the man in the offense, both played down low in college, but project to SF in nba. Will thornton be able to display double double capability in his first two games? Who knows if he will get the chance. Comparing singleton to thornton is not a diss...i think singleton has great abilities, as does thornton...just not the abilities that dunleavvy seems to appreciate. 



> The over estimation of Nick Young is also ridiculous. Plus calling for a draft by position instead of best available player is a huge mistake.


How is nick young being overestimated? He was the consensous top SG prospect in the entire draft, and a strong draft at that. Its not a huge mistake to draft by position when youre talking about players not that far apart from each other. If i take brandon wright over oden because i need a PF, yes, thats what you call a mistake. Not two guys who were both rated around the same. 

As far as hobojoe's post on his points, really youre not making any points. Thornton put up decent numbers we all have said that. But i still maintain you put some of these guys that people say thornton will be as good or better than, and say at the same age, they do better. Does that mean that thornton will NEVER be a star? No, but it certainly does not allow anyone to base it on history or fact to say he will be a star based on his numbers at florida state. Now, if someone says, dang, look at how many points durant put up as a freshman and at his age, how many guys could you say at that age would have put up those kind of numbers as a freshman? Not many...perhaps lebron, dwight howard might be a reach...amare? perhaps. So its very logical to assume that durant is destined for great things, based on history of his performance, and comparing what other guys could have/did do at his age.


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## yamaneko

> If the Clippers had gone for Young or Crittenton, and Thornton went to a different team and turned out to be a star, everyone would say "OMG THE CLIPPERS PASSED ON THORNTON!!!!!!"


Wrong wrong WRONG! How many times do i have to mention that thornton on another team probably would be a dang good player? It still doesnt change the fact that we didnt have room for him when we drafted him. How many are upset about okafor? Most knew he would be a good player, but low and behold the clippers did everything they could (and they did) to trade down. Why? Because they were very deep at PF, and did not need him. Doesnt matter how good he has been elsewhere, he would not have put up those numbers playing behind one elton brand. Clippers made the right choice there. Now, granted, they should have traded for more than shaun livingston in retrospect, but they did the logical thing. Why they couldnt use the same logic here is beyond me. The only way this works out THIS year is if they somehow are lying, and they do plan on trading maggette for someone who doesnt play PF/SF. 



> No matter what the Clippers do, they are screwed, and their "fans" are ready to crucify them for every move they make.


Not correct. We crucify them for bad moves or no moves (drafting thornton, not trading for iverson, not trading for pierce, drafting lionel chalmers, etc.). if they would have drafted nick young, i would not have crucifed them. When they traded for cassell, no one crucified them. When they picked jared jordan no one crucified them. When they picked Sofo in the 2nd round, no one crucified them, when they traded for elton brand, no one crucified them...why? Because all of those moves were great, and at the time were quite logical. Clipper fans only crucify them when they screw up: Giving a promise to korolev, drafting chalmers based on one workout, not wanting to give up livingston for pierce, etc. etc. 



> any realism says, "you cannot judge a player you HAVEN'T seen play for the team yet!


Who is judging thornton? Certainly not me. Im not judging anything, im simply stating the FACT that thornton plays the two positions we are most deep at. Theres no refuting that. For it to work out something extreme has to happen: Trade, injury, he learns to play SG, etc.


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## TakingitbyStorm

> yamaneko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its mind boggling dumb to assert otherwise. same size, same athletic abillities, same ability to hit the three, similar defense, about same age, strong offensive game when they are the man in the offense, both played down low in college, but project to SF in nba. Will thornton be able to display double double capability in his first two games? Who knows if he will get the chance. Comparing singleton to thornton is not a diss...i think singleton has great abilities, as does thornton...just not the abilities that dunleavvy seems to appreciate.
> 
> 
> 
> I see your point, and you...change that I will call myself lazy for not going into detail. I stand by my point that it's laughable at best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is nick young being overestimated? He was the consensous top SG prospect in the entire draft, and a strong draft at that. Its not a huge mistake to draft by position when youre talking about players not that far apart from each other. If i take brandon wright over oden because i need a PF, yes, thats what you call a mistake. Not two guys who were both rated around the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was not the consesus best shooter in the draft at his position, therefore I think calling him the 'consensus' best SG in the draft might be reaching a bit. Just MHO.
Click to expand...


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## yamaneko

> Also you can see the logic in NO picking a guy like Wright because he 'fell' to them and was a top 5 talent, but when Al who was slated to go as high as 8 on some mocks(Ford and Ainge both said he was worthy of #5) then all of a sudden it's different? Not to get back on Nick, but both teams seem to have used the same logic.


As i said, the only time i would pick something other than a position of need is if that guy is REALLY REALLY good. Julian wright would have gone top 2 perhaps in last years draft. I have stated that i would have been fine taking wright if he were available. I even stated that BEFORE the draft. Julian wright is an immense talent. 4years younger than thornton. thats the kind of talent you usually dont let slip. Hes also a dunleavvy type, point forward kind of guy. Not the scorer that thornton was, inasmuch as he was on a better team, but better rebounder, shot blocker, distributor, not to mention "upside" as he was rated this high at the age that thornton was averaging 2 points a game as a freshman. I have no doubt that new orleans will find him playing time. Hes not behind the likes of brand, thomas, ross, maggette on that roster. Even here i think he would have taken minutes away from maggette because we all know how dunleavvy likes guys like korolev/dunleavvyjr, who can dribble and pass from the sf position.


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## bootstrenf

i keep reading that we are "deep" at the 3 spot....


the word "deep" would imply that we have an abundance of talent at a certain position...that is not the case with the clippers...maggette is the only above-average sf on the team...singleton i a good energy guy off the bench, and qross is a marginal starter with defense being his only true discernable talent...

thornton was not a bad pick, as our only capable 3 is injury prone...


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## TakingitbyStorm

yamaneko said:


> Not the scorer that thornton was, inasmuch as he was on a better team, .


You speak as if he could have been if he was in the same situation. This is also one of the reason I was not to high on Wright. No jumper=no passing lanes in the NBA. This was of course the main reason he fell.

Love how you like to slip things like that in like the previous statement about crucifying the team for bad moves, Chalmers, Yaroslav, *Thornton*, ect.


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## yamaneko

> I feel that he definitely can and like his potential to, I just don't think it will be "Just add water" Stardome. But I definitely don't agree with the "all signs point to the opposite." mantra.


I didnt say its a given. But in the last 10 years, how many have entered the league at his age and went on to be stars? Hes not doomed for failure just because of that FACT. However, the odds are not in his favor. 



> I never said I did any "breakdown of the minutes of the Clipper front court", nor was that what you originally asked me to provide for you.


That is what i asked from you since that is what i provided. And its what i continue to ask. You have posted again about things that have not happened, and that need to drastically changed. I too think he will get singletons 6 minutes or so in the beginning, but who does he take minutes away from later? Dunleavvy has numerous times said and demonstrated his strong desire not to play maggette at SG. Heck, even now that hes changing his tune a little, and saying maggette could be moved there, its in an emergency if mobley gets injured. I could come up with a lot of ways to get thornton playing time. But again, it would depend on 1. someone getting injured, 2. him learning a new position, 3. someone getting traded. I do not want to have a wasted pick, i DO WANT THORNTON to be able to do something on this team. But i hate having to have somthing out of the ordinary happen for that to happen. However, i have always been open to trading maggette away if were loosing him next year, i still am interested in that despite the clippers saying they wouldnt do it. if we trade maggette, boom, thats how thornton gets minutes. 



> Nick Young was not going to be any kind of savior for this team, why so many were enamored with him I cannot begin to understand. The Clippers made the right choice and all the detractors in this thread will have a much different opinion once the season starts.


And tell me who said he was going to be a savior of the team? I havent seen anyone say that. Why people were enamored with him? How many times do we have to spell it out? 1. He plays the position we have need at. 2. he immediately is in the running for starting SG. 3. Hes young. 4. Hes local talent high school/college, 5. Has a mid range game that no one on the team seems to have outside of cassll, 6. has that superstar mentality where hes not afraid to take over games at the end, something we need. 7. If we do lose maggette down the road, he also can play SF in addition to SG. Hes no full fledged superstar or savior. But does meet a lot of our needs. You too i ask of, and anyone else, please give me a breakdown of all of these minutes thornton is supposed to get so that he can wow us. Id like to see it happen, id like to see him be a solid contibutor, but i dont see him getting minutes ahead of our current front court. 



> He was not the consesus best shooter in the draft at his position, therefore I think calling him the 'consensus' best SG in the draft might be reaching a bit. Just MHO.


Almost every mock draft from media organizations had him as the first SG to be taken in the draft. Even with stuckey getting the detroit promise, most media had him slated as going 13 or higher. Thats what i call being the consensous top SG going into the draft. As it turns out he went right after stuckey, so was the 2nd SG chosen. Stuckey by the way i also wouldnt have minded us taking.


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## yamaneko

> the word "deep" would imply that we have an abundance of talent at a certain position...that is not the case with the clippers...maggette is the only above-average sf on the team...singleton i a good energy guy off the bench, and qross is a marginal starter with defense being his only true discernable talent...


It is the case with the clippers that we are deep at 3/4. The resaon being our coach amongst other reasons. I dont see anyone denying the fact that brand has almost all PF minutes, and thomas as well. At SF, we have a history of when cassell is uninjured last year, dunleavvy insists on starting ross there to make up for the defense. That leaves maggette as our 6th man off of the bench almost exclusively at SF (and he still played a lot of minutes). This is why we are deep at the 3/4. And it was proven when talented guys like singleton who proved they could get double doubls when given time, could not crack the rotation. And technically we can see why, i doubt anyone here would have given him time over maggette. The only times that it was ridiculous was when people like doug christie and luke jackson were getting a few spot minutse over singleton. This is why im deathly afraid that thornton wont get enough minutes. Regardless of what we think Ross's talents are, the fact is that we have a coach who loves to play him even ahead of maggette, a guy that we know is ahead of thornton. 



> No jumper=no passing lanes in the NBA. This was of course the main reason he fell.


Hes still a dunleavvy type guy. Dunleavvy has this obsession with big guys who can run the offense at times from the forward. I bet he even had wright's stats of how many charges he took like he praises jr. for all the time. lol. Julian wright was the guy i pegged as falling as well, which is why i was hoping he would fall to us as well. With this draft it was very likely that berwer, yi were going to be picked high. Brandon wright was guaranteed to go high. To mee it was either green or wright who was going to fall since most of the rest of the top 12 was set. Turned out to be wright. 



> Love how you like to slip things like that in like the previous statement about crucifying the team for bad moves, Chalmers, Yaroslav, Thornton, ect.


Thats in direct response to the person who is accusing us of crucifying clippers on every move, obviously this being one of them since thats what much of the thread is about. I wasnt trying to slip anything in, just acknowledging his accusation, but at the same time explaining how we clipper fans do not crucify the clipps on EVERY move.


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## hobojoe

You do realize that in all likelihood Maggette is on the Clippers for one more year and that's it? Then what, you put yourself in a position where you have no SF or you have Quinton Ross and a quick fix? Al's going to show why he should've been a Top 7-10 pick at the very least in this draft, and he'll step right in as the starter in 2008 and be playing All-Star caliber basketball by 2009.


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## hobojoe

yamaneko said:


> As far as hobojoe's post on his points, really youre not making any points. Thornton put up decent numbers we all have said that. But i still maintain you put some of these guys that people say thornton will be as good or better than, and say at the same age, they do better. Does that mean that thornton will NEVER be a star? No, but it certainly does not allow anyone to base it on history or fact to say he will be a star based on his numbers at florida state. Now, if someone says, dang, look at how many points durant put up as a freshman and at his age, how many guys could you say at that age would have put up those kind of numbers as a freshman? Not many...perhaps lebron, dwight howard might be a reach...amare? perhaps. So its very logical to assume that durant is destined for great things, based on history of his performance, and comparing what other guys could have/did do at his age.


What don't you understand about the fact he didn't put up decent numbers, he put up excellent numbers while being double and triple teamed every game due to his teammates' incompetence?


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## TakingitbyStorm

> _Almost every mock draft from media organizations had him as the first SG to be taken in the draft. Even with stuckey getting the detroit promise, most media had him slated as going 13 or higher. Thats what i call being the consensous top SG going into the draft. As it turns out he went right after stuckey, so was the 2nd SG chosen. Stuckey by the way i also wouldnt have minded us taking._


[/QUOTE]

I agree, what I am saying is the difference between Young, Stuckey, Fernandez, and Bellini(who was said to probably the best shooter) was so negligible that to me in this draft it is a reach.

I am kinda glad we went with Thornton because he was my initial pick. Then I started to get on the Nick bandwagon until I started to read about him and watch him. That is in no way to dis Nick, but I didn't feel compelled to get behind that pick. Then it was on to Law and after hearing about how he has close ties with Ross, and Mobley, Francis, and Cassell have ties (the latter two are investment partner along with Van Exel in line of clothes), I could see a cohesiveness like no other because I think they all go back to TX in the offseason. Then it was on to T. Young. The Clippers save me from having to really stay with one of those guys by pick the most NBA ready(their and my opinion).



> _That is what i asked from you since that is what i provided. And its what i continue to ask. You have posted again about things that have not happened, and that need to drastically changed. I too think he will get singletons 6 minutes or so in the beginning, but who does he take minutes away from later? _





> _Where specifically are the minutes going to come from if dunleavvy decides he needs ross again to overcome cassell's lack of defense? Maggette for sure is the guy at SF off of the bench, and barring foul trouble will get his 30 mins a game. Brand and thomas up front with kaman. Id like to see someone perhaps chart where his minutes are going to come from. Unless he all of a sudden makes the transition from college power forward to NBA shooting guard, i dont see the minutes._


This was the original request that I responded to.

_



Can you link me to the post? I havent seen where his minutes are coming from other than the post i made breaking down the front court minutes. Please look at last years minutes breakdown, and then tell me how you think it will playout this year. We dont need to see him play in preseason to know he plays the position that we are most deep at, the position it will be hardest to take minutes from. The only way presseason play woudl change that is if all of a sudden he could shoot better than tim thomas, and be way better than our "2nd best player" in maggette.

Click to expand...

_Then again here.


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## yamaneko

> You do realize that in all likelihood Maggette is on the Clippers for one more year and that's it? Then what, you put yourself in a position where you have no SF or you have Quinton Ross and a quick fix? Al's going to show why he should've been a Top 7-10 pick at the very least in this draft, and he'll step right in as the starter in 2008 and be playing All-Star caliber basketball by 2009.


We have tim thomas. And youre still talking next year. Which is why i wanted a SG/SF. instead of a SF/PF. We get our need this year in SG, and then IF we lose maggette next year, the guy can move to SF. What you are saying is all wishful thinking. Its possible, but we cant point to anything or history to say that its very likely. 



> What don't you understand about the fact he didn't put up decent numbers, he put up excellent numbers while being double and triple teamed every game due to his teammates' incompetence?


Theyre good numbers. Durant being a superstar on a bad team, thats "excellent" numbers. Kobe on the lakers averaging 35 on a crap team despite double and tripple teams, thats excellent numbers. averaging 19 points when youre the superstar on your team is good. NOthing to scoff at. But not "excellent" or "future star guaranteed" kind of numbers.


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## hobojoe

yamaneko said:


> We have tim thomas. And youre still talking next year. Which is why i wanted a SG/SF. instead of a SF/PF. We get our need this year in SG, and then IF we lose maggette next year, the guy can move to SF. What you are saying is all wishful thinking. Its possible, but we cant point to anything or history to say that its very likely.


Why are we looking at history? Al Thornton is his own man, the success or failure of other players has nothing to do with the player that Thornton is and what he can become. I've watched a lot of college basketball and a lot of professional basketball before, I'm telling you that Thornton is going to be a very good NBA player. Did you know the only other forward drafted in the 1st round out of Florida State born in September or later in the calendar year is Dave Cowens, a 7-time All-Star, MVP and Hall of famer. I'm not saying that means Thornton will be, but looking at history the odds are for it.


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## SC

Just found this board today and just went through all 15 pages of this post and all the other posts on Al Thornton. I've been following the Clippers since Mo Taylor and DA were on the team (and demanded max contracts I'm glad the Clippers didn't give them). Being a big SC basketball fan, I was extremely upset the Clippers passed on Nick Young. I've been losing interest in the Clippers because they've failed to get rid of Maggette and failed to bring in a go-to guard (someone like a Ray Allen, Paul Pierce or Gilbert Arenas). Not saying Nick is of their caliber, but he is definitely more like what they need than Thornton.

I think the successful teams are placing a premium on shooting, and Nick shot over 50% last season on mostly turnarounds and fallaways. He has a pure and effortless stroke, and he has second and third dribble moves to get his shots off.

I saw Thornton's highlights, and I don't think he'll be able to get half those shots off in the NBA. I've read he's athletic and works hard, but can't dribble, doesn't move well laterally, and has low basketball IQ. Sounds similar to Maggette, who loves to dribble the ball off his foot in clutch situations.

I actually think Nick is in a better situation in Washington, getting a chance to learn from Arenas. But thought the Clippers blew it by not drafting Nick after all the negatives since last year (Liv's injury, missing playoffs, Kaman regressing, raising ticket prices). Nick probably won't be a superstar this season and may never become one, but he's a local superstar, which I think is what the Clippers could've used to re-energize the team.


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## cpawfan

yamaneko said:


> Its mind boggling dumb to assert otherwise. same size, same athletic abillities, same ability to hit the three, similar defense, about same age, strong offensive game when they are the man in the offense, both played down low in college, but project to SF in nba. Will thornton be able to display double double capability in his first two games? Who knows if he will get the chance. Comparing singleton to thornton is not a diss...i think singleton has great abilities, as does thornton...just not the abilities that dunleavvy seems to appreciate.


They aren't the same size and they aren't the same athletically. Singleton doesn't have a strong offensive game and Thornton is a pure NBA SF. He had to do what was necessary for his college team to be competitive. 

You aren't going to find many bigger fans of Singleton than me and you are greatly overstating his abilities. Comparing Singleton to Thornton is mind boggling dumb as their similarities are basically none, no matter how much you try to warp the conversation.




> How is nick young being overestimated? He was the consensous top SG prospect in the entire draft, and a strong draft at that. Its not a huge mistake to draft by position when youre talking about players not that far apart from each other. If i take brandon wright over oden because i need a PF, yes, thats what you call a mistake. Not two guys who were both rated around the same.


I realize you spent some time with the DX folks, but Nick Young wasn't the consensus top SG prospect. Yes, there was a group that liked him the most, but it wasn't a consensus. He isn't nearly as good as you think he is, although you are at least closer to the truth here than you are with the Singleton being like Thornton nonsense.


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## hobojoe

SC said:


> Just found this board today and just went through all 15 pages of this post and all the other posts on Al Thornton. I've been following the Clippers since Mo Taylor and DA were on the team (and demanded max contracts I'm glad the Clippers didn't give them). Being a big SC basketball fan, I was extremely upset the Clippers passed on Nick Young. I've been losing interest in the Clippers because they've failed to get rid of Maggette and failed to bring in a go-to guard (someone like a Ray Allen, Paul Pierce or Gilbert Arenas). Not saying Nick is of their caliber, but he is definitely more like what they need than Thornton.


What the Clippers need is the guy who was an absolute steal and the best player available at 14. That is Al Thornton.



> I saw Thornton's highlights, and I don't think he'll be able to get half those shots off in the NBA. I've read he's athletic and works hard, but can't dribble, doesn't move well laterally, and has low basketball IQ. Sounds similar to Maggette, who loves to dribble the ball off his foot in clutch situations.


How will he not be able to get those shots off? He has great athleticism and uses it to get his shots off the dribble (raising up over defenders). He's deceptively crafty inside and has good touch. He'll be able to get better shots off if anything not being the focal point of the offense like he was every single possession for FSU, double and triple teamed. 



> I actually think Nick is in a better situation in Washington, getting a chance to learn from Arenas. But thought the Clippers blew it by not drafting Nick after all the negatives since last year (Liv's injury, missing playoffs, Kaman regressing, raising ticket prices). Nick probably won't be a superstar this season and may never become one, but he's a local superstar, which I think is what the Clippers could've used to re-energize the team.


I agree that Young is in a better situation in Washington. The Clippers however did not blow it, they took the better player of the two, and the best available. What the team needed was a good player, not someone to create excitement. The excitement will be there when fans realize how good he is.


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## TakingitbyStorm

> _I think the successful teams are placing a premium on shooting, and Nick shot over 50% last season on mostly turnarounds and fallaways. He has a pure and effortless stroke, and he has second and third dribble moves to get his shots off_.


Hey, I new to the board too, but not new to basketball. First since you like to throw percentages out there, did you take the time to check and of Al's? You might want to.



> _I saw Thornton's highlights, and I don't think he'll be able to get half those shots off in the NBA. I've read he's athletic and works hard, but can't dribble, doesn't move well laterally, and has low basketball IQ. Sounds similar to Maggette, who loves to dribble the ball off his foot in clutch situations_.


Have you ever played basketball. Why would you think that a pump fake, dribble-drive, spin fade-away wouldn't work in the NBA? And it was all fluid...I'll come back to that latter. What about a double ball fake, fake right, dribble left, pull up fade-away jumper? How about the runner in the lane against a triple team? 
I'm not saying that you should say he is the next Jordan or anything, but to say he won't be able to get those shots off in the NBA? WOW

Then you said Young has 2nd and 3rd dribble moves to get his shot off. Since when did Young become Kobe? What coach is going to call his number to where he is going to get the time to do that? If he does all that, he better pass because as soon as he misses and he is opposite agent zero, he's gonna be playing as many minutes as one of the coaches assistant.
Which takes me to the point I was at earlier. The fluidity of Al's moves is pure beauty. He gets the move off and the ball out of reach quickly. This is not all good for him because there will be situations where he is going to have to learn to decide whether to shoot or pass on the fly. But the fact that he has come that far, in such a short time is amazing.

I'm not trying to take anything away Nick, or add anything to Al, but if you are going to make a statement like that...I got some questions for you.

Forgive me...I been playing with my sig


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## SC

TakingitbyStorm said:


> Hey, I new to the board too, but not new to basketball. First since you like to throw percentages out there, did you take the time to check and of Al's? You might want to.


I wasn't just throwing out a percentage. My point was Nick didn't shoot a high percentage on mostly dunks, but jumpers. And yes I already checked Al's stats a while ago.



TakingitbyStorm said:


> Have you ever played basketball. Why would you think that a pump fake, dribble-drive, spin fade-away wouldn't work in the NBA? And it was all fluid...I'll come back to that latter. What about a double ball fake, fake right, dribble left, pull up fade-away jumper? How about the runner in the lane against a triple team?
> I'm not saying that you should say he is the next Jordan or anything, but to say he won't be able to get those shots off in the NBA? WOW


Al looks a little stiff to me. Doesn't have a quick enough first step against NBA small forwards. His highlight drives in college would be charges in the NBA. Doesn't have NBA 3-point range. Doesn't have great hang time. His athleticism helped him become a very good player in college, but he won't be able to rely on it as much in the league.



TakingitbyStorm said:


> Then you said Young has 2nd and 3rd dribble moves to get his shot off. Since when did Young become Kobe? What coach is going to call his number to where he is going to get the time to do that? If he does all that, he better pass because as soon as he misses and he is opposite agent zero, he's gonna be playing as many minutes as one of the coaches assistant.
> Which takes me to the point I was at earlier. The fluidity of Al's moves is pure beauty. He gets the move off and the ball out of reach quickly. This is not all good for him because there will be situations where he is going to have to learn to decide whether to shoot or pass on the fly. But the fact that he has come that far, in such a short time is amazing.


Nick idolizes Kobe and emulates him. He's not Kobe, but he's developed moves that he utilizes in games naturally when defenders dart at him. And you calling Al fluid makes me wonder in comparison to whom. Nick is what I would call fluid. Just search for Nick's highlights on YouTube.


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## hobojoe

SC said:


> Al looks a little stiff to me. Doesn't have a quick enough first step against NBA small forwards. His highlight drives in college would be charges in the NBA. Doesn't have NBA 3-point range. Doesn't have great hang time. His athleticism helped him become a very good player in college, but he won't be able to rely on it as much in the league.


:laugh:

This may be the funniest assessment of a player I've ever read. I love when people try to evaluate a player they know nothing about. His first step isn't quick enough for an NBA SF? That's like saying he can't jump high enough for an NBA SF either. He is a ridiculously explosive player, and that all starts with his first step, which is probably one of the best in the _league_ the second he steps onto an NBA court. I thought I'd seen it all with the misconceptions and myths about Al's game, but now he doesn't have a quick enough first step. Mind boggling.


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## TakingitbyStorm

SC said:


> _I wasn't just throwing out a percentage. My point was Nick didn't shoot a high percentage on mostly dunks, but jumpers. And yes I already checked Al's stats a while ago_.
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, I didn't know Al could dunk from the 3pt line.
> 
> 
> Al looks a little stiff to me. Doesn't have a quick enough first step against NBA small forwards. Doesn't have NBA 3-point range. Doesn't have great hang time.
> 
> And like I said before, your assesment of Young being so impressive that he going to be doing his Kome immpressions tells me pretty much how much you know about NBA basketball.
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> His highlight drives in college would be charges in the NBA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _I'll agree that his decision making needs work, but he already has a pull-up jumper off the dribble which is more than adequate.
> 
> 
> 
> _
> And you calling Al fluid makes me wonder in comparison to whom. Nick is what I would call fluid. Just search for Nick's highlights on YouTube._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've already seen Nick's highlights and as I said earlier they were ot so impressive they I could get behind him after I was trying to jump on the Nick bandwagon. As far as Al being fluid, I was actually referring to the linking of the moves, that is all the time you are going to have at the next level unless your name is Kobe, Wade, Zero, etc. Link it together, move with a purpose, and shoot or pass.
Click to expand...


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## shaunliv

SC said:


> I wasn't just throwing out a percentage. My point was Nick didn't shoot a high percentage on mostly dunks, but jumpers. And yes I already checked Al's stats a while ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Al looks a little stiff to me. Doesn't have a quick enough first step against NBA small forwards. His highlight drives in college would be charges in the NBA. Doesn't have NBA 3-point range. Doesn't have great hang time. His athleticism helped him become a very good player in college, but he won't be able to rely on it as much in the league.
> 
> 
> 
> Nick idolizes Kobe and emulates him. He's not Kobe, but he's developed moves that he utilizes in games naturally when defenders dart at him. And you calling Al fluid makes me wonder in comparison to whom. Nick is what I would call fluid. Just search for Nick's highlights on YouTube.


here's what a couple of draft sites think of Thornton's "slow first step":
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/althornton.html
Strengths: Physically Thornton is a jaw dropper type of athlete … Because of the high energy level and aggressiveness Thornton plays with, he draws a good number of fouls from opposing players … Has developed his upper body strength well and possesses an NBA ready body … Does a great job of getting rebounds out of position thanks to his leaping ability and foot speed … *Runs the court like a guard* … Is a threat in transition where he is a tremendous finisher … Loves to face-up the opposing defender and blow by them using his length and *explosive first step …
*
here's another..
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=591
What makes Thornton even tougher to guard however is his *remarkable first step for a 6’7 player.* _He is too quick for opposing power forwards to stay in front of and too skilled on the blocks for a small forward to defend._ The Florida native has shown the ability to absolutely smoke big men off of the dribble and get to the rim, especially when going to his right. In the low post, he generally goes towards his left shoulder for a turnaround jumper, but does a pretty adequate job of actually feeling his defender out and taking what the defense gives him.

He's a slow player my A$$! 
Hey SC- stop talking out yours!


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## SC

shaunliv said:


> *Runs the court like a guard*


You bolded this, but this has nothing to do with his first step. I never said he was slow.



shaunliv said:


> He is too quick for opposing power forwards to stay in front of and too skilled on the blocks for a small forward to defend.[/I] The Florida native has shown the ability to absolutely smoke big men off of the dribble


All this says is he was able to get by college power forwards. I believe he's playing small forward for the Clippers.


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## bootstrenf

SC said:


> All this says is he was able to get by college power forwards. I believe he's playing small forward for the Clippers.



just stop...

your claim that he has a slow first step has been blown out of the water...


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## Weasel

http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/thornton_thursday_070705.html



> Coach Dunleavy said that when he met Thornton at the Pre-Draft Camp in early June, he told him that if he was still available at No. 14, the Clippers would be picking him. "Al was the guy we hoped to get," Dunleavy said. "We're extremely pleased to have Al, we're looking forward to having him in Summer League and starting the process of integrating him into the Clipper family."





> Al will be put right to work immediately. He signed his contract this morning and will be in uniform tonight at the Clippers' first Summer League practice.


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## TakingitbyStorm

SC said:


> All this says is he was able to get by college power forwards. I believe he's playing small forward for the Clippers.


You do of course realize that plenty of PFs from college become SFs in the NBA? 2 from our very own team are QRich and Simmons.

I just thought about the fact that Thornton may have the opportunity to get tutored by none other than EB1(Elgin Baylor) and EB2(Elton Brand). Man I hope he takes advantage of that. :drool: (Great smilies)


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## bootstrenf

TakingitbyStorm said:


> You do of course realize that plenty of PFs from college become SFs in the NBA? 2 from our very own team are QRich and Simmons.
> 
> I just thought about the fact that *Thornton may have the opportunity to get tutored by none other than EB1(Elgin Baylor) and EB2(Elton Brand).* Man I hope he takes advantage of that. :drool: (Great smilies)



can we throw in a little bit of maggette in there??? not the bad parts, just his "get to the rim at all costs" attitude...hmmm, maybe a tiny sprinkle of clutchness from cassell, and few cups of range from thomas and mobley...nice...i likes...


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## matador1238

When is the press conference to introduce Thornton?


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## qross1fan

matador1238 said:


> When is the press conference to introduce Thornton?


If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was today


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## hobojoe

bootstrenf said:


> just stop...
> 
> your claim that he has a slow first step has been blown out of the water...


You need to listen to this man, SC. Just stop talking about Al Thornton, you proved that you know nothing about him other than a 2 minute YouTube clip you watched. Saying he has a slow first step threw every bit of credibility and benefit of the doubt you may have had.


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## MR. VADA

that's right 'chaw, let 'em know...vada


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## shaunliv

Thornton's stat line for his Pro debut:

24 Pts (7-18 Fgs), 8 Rebs (3 Off), 2 Blks, 1 Ast, 7 Fls, 3 TOs, 31 Mins

Pretty good for a "terrible" pick!​


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## bootstrenf

shaunliv said:


> Thornton's stat line for his Pro debut:
> 
> 24 Pts (7-18 Fgs), 8 Rebs (3 Off), 2 Blks, 1 Ast, 7 Fls, 3 TOs, 31 Mins
> 
> Pretty good for a "terrible" pick!​



how in the hell did he get 7 fouls???


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## cpawfan

bootstrenf said:


> how in the hell did he get 7 fouls???


The beauty of summer league


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## bootstrenf

cpawfan said:


> The beauty of summer league



oh, okay...

my mistake, i was under the impression that summer league games would adhere to regular rules and regs. of the nba, but i guess not...live and learn...


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## leidout

And people wonder why rookies always get in foul trouble in the regular season...


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## hobojoe

Greg Oden has a ridiculous 19 fouls in his first two Summer League games with Portland.


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