# Aaron Gray is/was a steal (Chicago Bulls Analysis)



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/34061

Gray’s massive frame is _more than equipped to handle playing the post at the NBA level_. His size allows him to _set up on the block and get fantastic position before receiving the ball_. Gray has a _nice repertoire of post moves, including a drop-step, soft right-handed hook shot, and a turnaround jump shot to either side._ He also scores a large percentage of his points off of offensive rebounds. _Gray excels at hitting the boards on both ends of the floor_. _He boxes out opponents very well, and again relies on his frame to do most of the work. Defensively he is very strong down low, often forcing opponents to catch the ball far from the basket._

_Gray will likely fall to the early second round, but could be a steal_. He isn’t very athletic, but he has the skill to still be an effective post player and he knows how to use his body to his advantage. If Gray isn’t starting in the league, he will make for a great big man coming off the bench.

http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/AaronGray.html

Proficient _rebounder and shotblocker, with improving offensive skills_. Has size to play center at the next level. _Has good attitude and work habits_. 

I mean, what's there to not like about Aaron Gray?? This guy is a legit seven footer who has the size now to play down low, has a nice repertoire of post moves, seems like a solid passer and a great rebounder (something which Hawes supposedly was not great at). Gray played four years in college so that will always help (Hawes played one). He played on a winning program at Pittsburgh unlike Hawes who's team didn't have a great season at Washington. I think Gray can give us 10-15 minutes as a backup each night and some will probably be surprised by what he brings to the table.

Even if some of you do not agree about the Noah selection, you must all agree that Noah and Gray are a tremendous upgrade over Sweetney, Malik, and Martynas Andriuskevicius. I understand that some of the things Noah brings may be redundant on this team but the things he brings are good things. An active player, good rebounder/shot-blocker, good defender, good passer, can score consistently when around the hoop. Joakim is a proven winner and he want's to win badly. He will fit perfectly in our team. Although Joakim may not be a "post scorer" he is constantly active and all in all will help the Bulls improve.

Besides, we have a player that is not afraid to say what he want's to the media and as Skiles said want's some different personalities. 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/448979,CST-SPT-1bside29.article

''We have a very good group of guys, but they're on the quiet side; _we have some reserved people_,'' coach Scott Skiles said.

''Adding a guy like this to the mix that is the opposite of that is appealing, because it brings a different kind of energy for us.''


Remember folks, we had no business as a team after being in the Semi ECF to even have a good draft pick but thanks to that bum Eddy Curry, we were able to re-tain a high draft pick (always appreciate your kind efforts Isiah). 

A lot of people may have not noticed this but having Noah also allows us to be more of a win now team as Paxson said. We all know Joakim is NBA ready so that won't be a problem.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/448858,CST-SPT-bull29.article

''For a lot of the last week or so, we didn't even anticipate that two of the guys would be there,'' Paxson said. ''We were hoping one would fall to us. This is a process of building, and we thought he was the right guy for us at this time. We thought he was the most ready of the guys to come in and play. *We're a team that's trying to win right now*.''

After Gray, we were able to draft JamesOn Curry and from what I saw from the ESPN clips on draft night, this kid has some serious range and a great touch. The reason I think Pax got Curry (even when Taurean Green was still available) was because Curry has more height and can play the 1 or the 2. I'm not sure if people know this but Curry got a scholarship from North Carolina but was rescinded after allegedly selling marijuana to an undercover cop. Whenever a good basketball program such as North Carolina is willing to give you a scholarship, you know you got game.

I think now the Bulls should trade Chris Duhon for a future second rounder or some cash considerations because he is expendable and frankly the Chicago Bulls do not need him anymore. And we all know Malik, Sweets, Martynas, Barrett and possibly P.J. Brown (I will miss you P.J. if you retire, go to another team or whatever you decide to do. You are truly a class act and I enjoyed watching you play as a Chicago Bull. I will never forget your last game as a Bull against the Pistons when you scored 20 after the first half. You proved to people that you still have mad game. Again, thank you very much- if you decide to leave or what-not).

Hopefully, we can re-sign Noc and maybe possibly sign someone from Free Agency.

As of right now, I see Noah as our PF starter for a couple reasons.

1. He is NBA ready, has played college for three years and is a proven winner. Tyrus Thomas meanwhile, is not quite ready yet (to play starter-calibre minutes).

2. Noah has size on him and that will help Ben Wallace tremendously. Tyrus is tall but not as tall as Noah. If Tyrus starts, he still may have issues with foul trouble and whatnot so it's better to keep him on the bench. Playing for such a demanding coach in Billy Donovan, I'm sure Joakim knows how to handle himself out on the court and how to stay on the court.

3. I also believe as of right now, Noah is the better player than Tyrus Thomas and while in the future it may change, the present is still Noah.

With that being said, our outlook is (assuming Nocioni is re-signed, and Duhon, P.J. Brown is gone):

PG: Kirk, JamesOn

SG: Ben Gordon, Adrian, JamesOn,

SF: Luol, Nocioni, Thabo, Andrian, Viktor

PF Joakim, Tyrus, Nocioni

C: Ben, Aaron 

Not a bad team. At least now, our frontcourt is better and more reliable now that Malik, Sweets and Martynas are gone. I expect this team to be better than last year and contend in the weak East.

I'm sorry if this thread is a bit long, but I really wanted to give my insight and how I feel about the Chicago Bulls' current situation.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> I mean, what's there to not like about Aaron Gray?? This guy is a legit seven footer who has the size now to play down low, has a nice repertoire of post moves, seems like a solid passer and a great rebounder (something which Hawes supposedly was not great at). Gray played four years in college so that will always help (Hawes played one). He played on a winning program at Pittsburgh unlike Hawes who's team didn't have a great season at Washington. I think Gray can give us 10-15 minutes as a backup each night and some will probably be surprised by what he brings to the table.


I like the Gray pick. We lack front court depth so landing a guy with size who had success in college is a good pick. I wish we'd used our other second rounder similarly and taken Herbert Hill. The problem with Gray (and the reason he fell to the late second round) is that he's the reason someone like Hawes can't be called a terrible NBA athlete: he's substantially worse. He's the reason the word stiff exists. That doesn't mean he can't contribute. There are some NBA players with poor athleticism that are crafty, smart, big enough, and/or tough enough to have some degree of success in the NBA. 

I think Gray probably makes the team but I don't think he sees anywhere near 15 minutes per game. 5 or 7 minutes with a good number of DNP's or maybe even some time on the IR is more likely. Last year we had five or seven (were Viktor, Tyrus, Wallace, Noc, Sweets, P.J. and Malik ever all active at the same time?) front court players on the active roster at a time. Right now Gray would be the sixth (in addition to Tyrus, Wallace, Noah, Viktor, and Noc). He'd be the seventh in the likely event that we use the MLE to sign a big man and maybe even the 8th if we keep Marty. 



bullybullz said:


> Even if some of you do not agree about the Noah selection, you must all agree that Noah and Gray are a tremendous upgrade over Sweetney, Malik, and Martynas Andriuskevicius.c


Definitely with Noah, the jury's out on Gray.



bullybullz said:


> As of right now, I see Noah as our PF starter for a couple reasons.
> 
> 1. He is NBA ready, has played college for three years and is a proven winner. Tyrus Thomas meanwhile, is not quite ready yet (to play starter-calibre minutes).


Based on the success each player had last season, I feel somewhat strongly that Tyrus is ahead of Noah right now. I also think Tyrus probably fits better next to Wallace since he has more offense. I don't really care who starts but unless there's a good reason (e.g. foul trouble), I'll probably be pretty upset if Noah plays more minutes than Tyrus next season. 



bullybullz said:


> 2. Noah has size on him and that will help Ben Wallace tremendously. Tyrus is tall but not as tall as Noah. If Tyrus starts, he still may have issues with foul trouble and whatnot so it's better to keep him on the bench. Playing for such a demanding coach in Billy Donnovon, I'm sure Joakim knows how to handly himself out on the court and how to stay on the court.


I always think the size issues are overstated with Wallace. The guy won the defensive player of the year award four times playing the five. I don't see how starting leads Tyrus to foul less often.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

What I'm saying is if Tyrus start's and get's two quick fouls, he'll have to sit a while before coming back in (like Gordon). If Tyrus is in the bench it won't be much of a issue because Noah is still the starter. I'm sure Noah is better at staying on the court than Tyrus is as of now (regarding foul trouble issues).


----------



## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

Yes Gray is a bit of a stiff. But he's the biggest body on the Bulls both this season and last. We're probably goiong to need him to defend some of the stronger centers, Yao etc.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Gray was dominated by every single good center he ran up against, most notably Spencer Hawes, Roy Hibbert and Patrick O'Bryant. He's an end of the bench stiff for fouls and fouls alone.


----------



## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Gray could probably stand to get into a bit better shape and has been working hard on his conditioning according to draftexpress.

If he works hard a place is there for the taking (it's probably there for the taking if he doesn't work hard unfortunately  )

I think he'll be a very match up dependant player. Likely to see alot of 15 minute games when we have to match up on a big centre and alot of 3 minute games when we don't.

If he turns into a good 10-15 minutes a game guy then that's great.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

He's not an NBA prospect IMO.Of course,Chuck Nevitt sat on a lot of NBA benches for a long time...He should pray he can do as well.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

I guess this is trying to find a positive whereyouever you can.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

More on Aaron:

POSITIVES: *Gray is a low-post behemoth who can score on the block. He has very good hands to catch entry passes and most of the time he is able to finish with layups around the basket.* *Gray is a terrific passer out of the post*, able to hit cutters with just the right pass in stride so that they can score. He's also able to make tougher passes like the diagonal pass, the skip pass and the *alley-oop pass*. *Defensively, he will be able to compete against the strongest centers in the game and will help wear down skilled players with his strength.* 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=tx2141328cap&prov=st&type=lgns

Just wanted to add. Watch this video. He has good footwork, patient in the post and has an abundance of moves down low. Good pick Pax!!

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=207187&cl=2904915&ch=244098&src=sports


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

With the second round picks, I was really hoping for Kyle Visser and Demetris Nichols. I also thought Taurean Green would have been a good selection if Duhon wasn't in the long term plans.

I'm not unhappy with the Gray pick, and I really know nothing of JamesOn, although I did think we need more shooters, and Curry seems to be it.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Rhyder said:


> With the second round picks, I was really hoping for Kyle Visser and Demetris Nichols. I also thought Taurean Green would have been a good selection if Duhon wasn't in the long term plans.
> 
> I'm not unhappy with the Gray pick, and *I really know nothing of JamesOn, although I did think we need more shooters, and Curry seems to be it*.


http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=207187&cl=2941983&ch=244098&src=sports

There is some JamesOn Curry for ya. He wears a headband so either he will have to take it off or Pax has changed the team's rules (wouldn't Ben Wallace be happy). Another solid pick. Go Pax!!


----------



## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

Rhyder said:


> With the second round picks, I was really hoping for Kyle Visser...QUOTE]
> 
> He didn't get drafted. Any chance Pax might try to sign him?


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> What I'm saying is if Tyrus start's and get's two quick fouls, he'll have to sit a while before coming back in (like Gordon). If Tyrus is in the bench it won't be much of a issue because Noah is still the starter. I'm sure Noah is better at staying on the court than Tyrus is as of now (regarding foul trouble issues).


Hmm. Yeah, I just don't think Skiles cares. I feel like if you get two fouls in the first quarter or three in the first half, you're done and that's that. I don't agree with it but I feel that that's the way he deals with foul trouble. I don't think whether you're starting or coming off the bench makes a difference (though certainly I suppose it's harder to get called for two fouls in the first half if you don't get into the game until the 4 minute mark.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Bulls4Life said:


> Rhyder said:
> 
> 
> > With the second round picks, I was really hoping for Kyle Visser...QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Bulls4Life said:
> 
> 
> > Signing him would be ideal. Shame Pax didn't lock him in with the Bulls by drafting him.
> ...


----------



## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

Gray is awesome for a 2nd rounder, supposedly he was impressive in Orlando too in the pre-draft workouts.


----------



## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Hopefully Aaron Gray get to grab some minutes next year so the front court can be deep.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

He kind of reminds me of this guy:

































Which, in my book, ain’t necessarily a bad thing. For a late 2nd round pick.

Of course, I think Mr. B was faster up and down the court and had better hands.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_515177.html

Gray has 'real shot' to make roster
By John Grupp
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Saturday, June 30, 2007 


John Paxson is regarded as one of the most astute basketball executives in the NBA. 
That's good news for Aaron Gray. 

"He has a real shot," said Paxson, the Chicago Bulls' executive vice president of basketball operations. "It's a good position for him." 

One day after the Bulls took the 7-foot, 270-pound center from Pitt in the second round with the 49th pick in the NBA Draft, Paxson says Gray is a solid fit. 


Paxson says if Gray keeps improving, he should be wearing a Bulls uniform this season. 
"We like the fact that he's big and wide, and he plays that way," Paxson said Friday afternoon from Chicago. "We are intrigued by him because he is so big." 

With his blue-collar work ethic, Gray is certain to appeal to coach Scott Skiles. The Bulls play a half-court style offense and have little depth at center behind all-star Ben Wallace. 

"I think it's a great fit," said Jonathan Givony, president of DraftExpress.com, a Web site devoted to the NBA. "If you go that late in the second round, you might as well fall to a team like the Bulls. I don't think it could have worked out any better for him." 

Paxson said Gray, who couldn't be reached for comment, is expected to report to Chicago on Monday for conditioning and the start of summer leagues. The Bulls will play in Orlando -- the site of Gray's impressive NBA pre-draft workouts -- and Salt Lake City beginning in early July. 

Gray, a third-team All-American represented by New Jersey-based ASM Sports, worked out for the Bulls on Sunday, one of his final workouts for NBA teams in the weeks leading to the two-round draft. He became only the third Pitt player drafted in the past decade. 

"The next couple of weeks are real important for Aaron," Paxson said. "If he comes in and works hard and we see the same things from his college career and this year and the pre-draft camp, it will be tough for us to pass up (signing him)." 

Unlike first-round picks, second-rounders aren't guaranteed a contract. They need to make the team. 

Players taken with the 49th pick have shown success at reaching the league. Of the past five players taken in that spot, three are still in the NBA. 

The two who didn't make it were Europeans who never played a game in the pros after being picked. The 49th pick in the 2006 draft, Leon Powe of California, signed a three-year deal worth $1.9 million with the Boston Celtics. 

Gray, 22, would seem to be in good position to make the roster. The Bulls have one true center signed for next season, Wallace. 

Center Martynas Andiuskevicius, a 7-2 second-year player, and 6-8 forward Mike Sweetney are restricted free agents. Veteran forward/center P.J. Brown (6-11) and forward Malik Allen (6-10) are unrestricted free agents. 

The Bulls addressed some of those needs by drafting 6-11 forward Joakim Noah from Florida with the No. 9 overall pick. 

"I think we're a team that needs size on the front line," Paxson said. "We have very much got a perimeter-oriented team. Aaron can be good at freeing them up for shots. He's a good screener, and he's not afraid of contact. 

"Let's face it. He's not the most athletic guy. We think we will be able to use him for effective minutes." 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where are they now? 
Former Pitt center Aaron Gray was drafted in the second round, 49th overall, by the Chicago Bulls during Thursday's NBA Draft. Here are the previous five players selected with that pick, and how they are faring: 
Year Player Pos. Team Notable 
2007 Aaron Gray C Bulls Reports to Chicago on Monday 
2006 Leon Powe F Celtics 4.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg in 63 games 
2005 Andray Blatche F Wizards 3.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg in 56 games 
2004 Sergei Lishouk F Grizzlies Urkainian never played in NBA 
2003 James Jones G Suns 6.4 ppg, 90 3-pointers 
2002 Peter Fehse F Seattle German opted to stay in Europe


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

No doubt that Gray was worth the 2nd rounder. He's bottom of the barrel in terms of athletic ability, but that might not matter for a big hulking 7'1 center (fyi, he measured out 7-feet barefoot, 7'1 in shoes). 

Remember Todd McCullough from the 76ers/Nets? I see Gray as a virtual clone of that guy which isn't a bad thing. McCullough was a good player during his short career, his body just broke down too fast. It would great if Gray showed the same kind of intelligent play and post moves.


----------



## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Just having the option, to trot out a big, strong 7 footer to match up with centre guys will be a good thing. Hope he makes the team, saying that he is a rookie and if he takes a year or two to find his niche, so be it.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm down for the pick as a 2nd rounder and think at this level its a ripper. A real nothing to lose type pick. Same with Jameson Curry which seems to be a real upside pick

Todd McCullough seems like a good comparison and I don't know that Roy Hibbert is significantly better ( athletically ) 

FWIW Gray scored a higher vert than Spencer Hawes but sprints and agility tests let him down a bit ( footspeed )

That's something that can be improved with conditioning 

He's never going to be a full court press type player but he's got a real shot to be an effective NBA Center in a rotation where his niche will be in half court sets

One thing I noticed in the tourney is that he is real comfortable in the high post and can really pass the ball to a cutter , or , face up and hit the jumper 

Whilst McRoberts is more athletic I actually preferred him over any of the bigs in the 2nd round ( Big Baby included ) - maybe with the exception of Nick Fazekas

Word is Pax is wanting to bring back PJ Brown back but I'd rather bring in Joe Smith as a vet scorer upfront and bring in Kyle Visser with a real shot to make the team which would give us a big stash / rotation of 

*Wallace, J.Smith , Noah, Thomas , Gray , Visser *

Visser in particular reminds me of a better scoring Jake Voshkul type

I was surprised he wasn't drafted.


----------



## BenDavis503 (Apr 11, 2007)

Don't kid yourselves. You should have drafted Hawes. EDIT - KJ.


----------



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Here's some footage of Aaron Gray's workout with the Wizards... they interview him too. Doesn't look half bad to me.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1sLRwoxGFP0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1sLRwoxGFP0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> He kind of reminds me of this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Speed wasn't one of TB's virtues, so it's a bit frightening to contemplate someone running more slowiy. TB did have great hands though, Gray would be lucky if he is as good in that regard.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

The one thing about Gray is I'd like to see him lose another 10-15lbs. I think if he did that he'd he'd gain a bit more ability to get up and down the court and still be stronger that 90% of the centers in the league. I think that's what he needs to do in order to be more than just a 6 fouls and out goon. I guess that's easier said than done, but guys who take their conditioning seriously when they get to the pros can really work wonders on themselves. He already seemed to be in noticeably better shape the last few months than he had been. And without a 1st round contract I imagine the pressure is on to keep it up.


----------



## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I think Aaron Gray reminds me a lot of Brad Miller. Everyone said Miller was slow footed and could not make the transition to the nba but he was a great passer and really knows how to get position much like Gray. If this was last year Gray goes at the end of the 1st round but this draft was packed because it was the first after the no high school players who all went this year instead of last year.

david


----------



## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

HKF said:


> Gray was dominated by every single good center he ran up against, most notably Spencer Hawes, Roy Hibbert and Patrick O'Bryant. He's an end of the bench stiff for fouls and fouls alone.


Well, on the face of it, I guess it shouldn't surprise that a mid-second-rounder was dominated by 2 lottery picks and a player who would have been a lottery pick had he come out. 

I remember the Pitt-Bradley game...yup, O'Bryant lit Gray up. 

Hibbert? They faced each other 3 times last season. I saw one of these and it didn't look like either was dominating the other. Looked it up and it went like this:

1/21/07: Hibbert 11pts, 2rebs, 1 ast; Gray 11pts, 4rebs, 2asts
2/24/07: Hibbert 12pts, 5rebs, 0 asts; Gray 10pts, 6rebs, 1ast (Gray sat out the game preceding this due to injury and didn't start this game)
3/10/07: Hibbert 18pts, 11rebs, 0 asts; Gray 3pts, 5rebs, 0asts (yeah, Hibbert dominated this one)

As for Hawes, they faced each other once. Hawes put up better numbers (12-12-4) than Gray (5-10-2), but Hawes was 6 for 16 from the field, not exactly indicative of "scoring at will" on poor hapless Aaron Gray.

There's no doubt that I'd rather have any of the 3 centers you mentioned over Gray. Each of them figure to be NBA starters (or at least should be given where they were, or in Hibbert's case, will be picked in the draft). Gray, at best, figures to be a career backup. However, I'm not quite ready to hang the "stiff" tag on him. Excellent value at the 49th pick.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

giusd said:


> I think Aaron Gray reminds me a lot of Brad Miller. Everyone said Miller was slow footed and could not make the transition to the nba but he was a great passer and really knows how to get position much like Gray. If this was last year Gray goes at the end of the 1st round but this draft was packed because it was the first after the no high school players who all went this year instead of last year.
> 
> david


He's a little like Brad Miller, but I've always seen Miller as more of a jumpshooter whereas Gray is more of a true banger in the low-post. Miller became so good because he learned to mix up his game, with a terrific blend of high-post shooting and passing along with some good post-ups. I'm not confident Gray will show the same shooting ability, but I think he'll be better in the low-post than Miller.


----------



## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

yodurk said:


> No doubt that Gray was worth the 2nd rounder. *He's bottom of the barrel in terms of athletic ability,* but that might not matter for a big hulking 7'1 center (fyi, he measured out 7-feet barefoot, 7'1 in shoes).
> 
> Remember Todd McCullough from the 76ers/Nets? I see Gray as a virtual clone of that guy which isn't a bad thing. McCullough was a good player during his short career, his body just broke down too fast. It would great if Gray showed the same kind of intelligent play and post moves.


Whoa there! "Hops" are generally the first athletic skill most folks think of. Gray recorded a 27" standing and 32.5 max vertical. Just about the same as McRoberts. Lane agility wasn't great, but it was about the same as Jeff Green and better than Horford. The only "bottom of the barrel" performance was the sprint...OK, he's slow. He was also the heaviest player at the combine.

Agree with Mike, he could stand to lose about 10 pounds or so.


----------



## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Here's some footage of Aaron Gray's workout with the Wizards... they interview him too. Doesn't look half bad to me.
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1sLRwoxGFP0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1sLRwoxGFP0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


Thanks for the video. 

For such a huge guy, he seemed to move around pretty well.


----------



## Brothaman33 (Feb 21, 2006)

you think if he grew a little gotee he could pass as a 7 foot Nocioni?


----------



## DaBulls812 (Feb 21, 2005)

Well said Transplant, Hawes, not Gray should be thought of as bottom of the barrel athletically. I think Gray did out perform Hawes in every drill minus the sprint. 

That being said, if Hawes is truly a Brad Miller clone, why on earth was he drafted in the lotto? It took Miller what, 6 years to become a decent 5 by most standards...


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

DaBulls812 said:


> Well said Transplant, Hawes, not Gray should be thought of as bottom of the barrel athletically. I think Gray did out perform Hawes in every drill minus the sprint.
> 
> That being said, if Hawes is truly a Brad Miller clone, why on earth was he drafted in the lotto? It took Miller what, 6 years to become a decent 5 by most standards...


Actually, Brad Miller was pretty good even as a rookie. He just didn't get huge minutes right away because he was undrafted, and he was playing behind Elden Campbell and PJ Brown (both in their prime at the time). Then he got injured in his first season with the Bulls. His production really became apparent during his second season with the Bulls, and that's when we traded him to the Pacers. He's been an excellent starting center ever since.


----------



## DaBulls812 (Feb 21, 2005)

Your right, my bad, it was his 4th season that he became a very decent center. 

I was trying to factor Spencer's age as opposed to what Miller's was when he started to blossom. He very well could take 6 years to come of age IMHO.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

DaBulls812 said:


> Well said Transplant, Hawes, not Gray should be thought of as bottom of the barrel athletically. I think Gray did out perform Hawes in every drill minus the sprint.
> 
> That being said, if Hawes is truly a Brad Miller clone, why on earth was he drafted in the lotto? It took Miller what, 6 years to become a decent 5 by most standards...


yeah he out performed hawes in the camp measurements. 
but i think that's to be expected since Grey's a more mature athlete.

the speed is a concern but he can earn a spot to match up with all the other slow veteran bigs out there (Z, Cwebb, etc).
also considering there isn't much competition on the team for that role.


----------



## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBulls812 said:


> Well said Transplant, Hawes, not Gray should be thought of as bottom of the barrel athletically. I think Gray did out perform Hawes in every drill minus the sprint.
> 
> That being said, if Hawes is truly a Brad Miller clone, why on earth was he drafted in the lotto? It took Miller what, 6 years to become a decent 5 by most standards...


Thanks, but my main point is that characterizing Gray as some sort of athletically-defective prospect isn't supportable based on the combine #s. Gray was the tallest player there (with and without shoes), the heaviest player and he also led the combine in body fat. He's a VERY big guy. Given these facts, you'd kind of expect that he'd be at the bottom of ALL athletic measures, but he wasn't, not by a long shot.

It's completely fair to, in NBA terms, consider Gray "not very athletic." The same is true of Hawes...come to think of it, the same appears to be true of Durant (though I still have to believe he "jaked it" some). I don't consider any of them "stiffs" though.

Gray was a very good (not great) player in college and playing in the Big East, played against excellent college competition. He has some game. To me, he was a great value pick.

All this said, let's be real. Gray's a second-round draft choice on a good team. Making the team isn't a foregone conclusion. NBADraft.net compares Gray to Matt Geiger. This comparison will make a lot of folks groan, but not me, baby...for the 49th pick, I'll take me some Matt Geiger.


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

People who have stated that Aaron Gray compares to Todd McCollough and Matt Geiger...That would be incredible for our team if he reaches anywhere close to their levels. Geiger was a very solid starter/rotation player and McCollough would be incredible to have on our bench right now. 

I hope Pax can lock them up both for CHEAP deals that last 3-4 years. I'd love to Gray and JOC deep on the bench developing.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

transplant said:


> Thanks, but my main point is that characterizing Gray as some sort of athletically-defective prospect isn't supportable based on the combine #s. Gray was the tallest player there (with and without shoes), the heaviest player and he also led the combine in body fat. He's a VERY big guy. Given these facts, you'd kind of expect that he'd be at the bottom of ALL athletic measures, but he wasn't, not by a long shot.
> 
> It's completely fair to, in NBA terms, consider Gray "not very athletic." The same is true of Hawes...come to think of it, the same appears to be true of Durant (though I still have to believe he "jaked it" some). I don't consider any of them "stiffs" though.
> 
> ...


good points all around. on this team he has a shot to stick. 
maybe not as a regular rotation guy, but i'd defintely prefer him than say marty (who's a project).


----------



## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

theanimal23 said:


> People who have stated that Aaron Gray compares to Todd McCollough and Matt Geiger...That would be incredible for our team if he reaches anywhere close to their levels. Geiger was a very solid starter/rotation player and McCollough would be incredible to have on our bench right now.
> 
> I hope Pax can lock them up both for CHEAP deals that last 3-4 years. I'd love to Gray and JOC deep on the bench developing.


Yep, incredible. Geiger got $51 million, and that was 9 years ago. Both those guys were starters and more than serviceable, more than you can hope for out of a second rounder. Go Gray! I'm hopeful. We need someone like him, a big body who can hit a jumper now and then. Dare I invoke Will Perdue? 

I really want to hear some scuttlebutt that Pax is trying to bring in Visser soon.

500 posts. Thank you, thank you very much.


----------



## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Philomath said:


> Yep, incredible. Geiger got $51 million, and that was 9 years ago. Both those guys were starters and more than serviceable, more than you can hope for out of a second rounder. Go Gray! I'm hopeful. We need someone like him, a big body who can hit a jumper now and then. Dare I invoke Will Perdue?
> 
> I really want to hear some scuttlebutt that Pax is trying to bring in Visser soon.
> 
> 500 posts. Thank you, thank you very much.


Congrats on 500 posts!

Perdue was taken with the 11th overall pick, and yeah, Gray could easily be better. Again, good value.


----------



## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Obviously we have to wait and see, but to get any sort of size in the 2nd round that makes the team is a steal. If you can get a 7 footer that can give you 10 minutes a night in the second round that's great. I would expect him to make the team, but not play much, spot minutes due to match ups. But the year after that you could expect a solid guy.

Paxson job isn't done yet with the second rounders. First he has to give them the yes/no on making the team and then he has to sort out their contract. If you think someone like Gray or Curry will be servicable you sign them for 2 years and try and get a bargain. Paxson gave Duhon a two year contract to start I think. It will be interesting to see what Paxson does with their contracts. Typically they're in the $400,000 a year range, so offering them two years at that rate in N.B.A terms is very cheap.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

All I need to know is : Will he contribute more than Sweetney this season? I think the answer will be yes. Same goes for Curry. Is he better than Andre Barrett? If we are looking to drastically improve the roster with late second round picks, we have serious problems here but IMO Pax got a couple steals her and at worst we made some minor improvements.
It's all gravy now.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

more favorable opinons on gray and noah:
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2157



> Sure, Noah replicates what the rest of the frontcourt brings to the table. *But at #9, he is nothing short of a steal.* The team is bursting at the seams with young talent, and taking the best immediate-impact player available makes sense.
> 
> Something unmistakable about the roster Paxson has built is the winning mentality of its players. Noah adds two NCAA championships worth of experience, and Aaron Gray spent much of his college career in the Top 10 at Pittsburgh. It is also interesting to note that the Bulls drafted a player they were dying to get their hands with the #2 a season ago at #9, and a player who would have been a first rounder in the mid-2nd. *Are Noah and Gray steals, or is the 2007 class just that good? *
> Either way, the addition of Noah probably cements Chicago as Eastern Conferences favorites headed into 07-08. Yeah, that’s a winning draft!


i remember the Gray and Karl Krauser led Pitt teams, they were good and always played tough and physical.


----------



## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

spongyfungy said:


> All I need to know is : *Will he contribute more than Sweetney this season?* I think the answer will be yes. Same goes for Curry. Is he better than Andre Barrett? If we are looking to drastically improve the roster with late second round picks, we have serious problems here but IMO Pax got a couple steals her and at worst we made some minor improvements.
> It's all gravy now.


He hasnt eaten his way out of the league yet?:biggrin: :biggrin:


----------



## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

spongyfungy said:


> All I need to know is : Will he contribute more than Sweetney this season? I think the answer will be yes.
> 
> ...
> 
> It's all gravy now.


It is for Sweets. 

(Sorry, can't let the obvious ones go.)


----------

