# The OJ Mayo Trade



## futuristxen

So I fiddled around with trade checker, and I have found a Mayo trade that makes sense for everyone involved. And gets us up to the number 3 pick.

New York Sends Out:
Zach Randolph
Jerome James
# 6 pick

New York Recieves:
Wally Z's expiring
Eric Snow's expiring
#19 pick

(this effectively lops a large chunk of NY's debt. We could also toss in Joe Smith and Damon Jones for Q if we really wanted to help the Knicks.)

Cleveland Trades:
Wally Z
Eric Snow
# 19 pick
Anderson Varejao

Cleveland Recieves:
Zach Randolph
Marko Jaric
Jerome James
# 3 pick

Minnesota trades:
Marko Jaric
# 3 Pick

Minnesota Recieves:
Anderson Varejao
# 6 pick

Then we just draft Mayo. Minnesota does this because they need front court help, and they can probably get who they want at 6(Kevin Love). They also save money because Jaric makes more than Varejao and has an extra year. Andy would have to agree to the trade, but he would because he would be a surefire starter for the Wolves, and would be a good compliment to Jefferson. Probably allowing Jefferson to move back to the 4.

The Knicks do this because they save a ton of money, and get rid of contracts that they have no chance otherwise to get rid of. Cleveland is probably the only team that can help the Knicks out of cap hell, and this would allow Donnie Walsh to really start remaking that team. I don't think there's anyone in the lottery that the Knicks need, given the young talent they already have. They just need to clear the deadwood off the team, and that's Randolph and James and Richardson.

The Cavs would look like this:

OJ Mayo/Delonte West/Marko Jaric
Gibson/Damon Jones
Lebron/Pavs
Ben Wallace/Zach Randolph/Joe Smith
Z/Dwayne Jones/Jerome James(probably buy him out)

Then we should probably deal Damon's expiring for a second rounder and try to get a better backup two or three.

I think we should do this trade, because I think OJ Mayo is going to be the steal of this draft. Even at three. He's got superstar written all over him. And he could pair with Lebron for the next decade. Plus I think he fits with Delonte and Gibson, and gives us a potent guard rotation. We might even consider not resigning Delonte, and instead getting Pietrus. That would balance it out more and allow us to not play Pavs.


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## Benedict_Boozer

I'd do the trade, but not sure about Minnesota doing it. McHale might be interested in moving down because Lopez and Kevin Love will likely both be available if they go big and they get rid of Jaric. 

The Knicks prob do it because they get out of cap hell, but then we are effectively allowing them to clear cap room to make a run at Lebron...like dealing with the devil. 

Good proposal


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## Ruff Draft

McHale loves it, but nobody else in Minne does.


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## futuristxen

Ruff Draft said:


> McHale loves it, but nobody else in Minne does.


What else is new? How does Mchale still have a job? He hasn't done a single good thing as GM there.

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if the Wolves just straight up swap us picks with the Varejao/Jaric thing also in there. Just because he's that kind of stupid.

That said, I don't think Mayo is what the Wolves need. I think they should be building around Jefferson. And they are mostly there, they just need more help up front. Lopez or Jordan would make sense, and if they could get Varejao too, I would consider that a good day for the Wolves. They would start next year with Jefferson at the 4, and have a solid big man rotation with Varejao and Lopez. I think McCants and Foye are in theory good enough. Of course you wouldn't even have this question if they had just got Roy.

Then they should chuck money at JR Smith and start him at the 3. I think they have the cap room to do that. JR Smith would be a better scorer than Mayo and more comfortable in that pure scorer role. Then you call it a year, and get ready for the lottery again next year, because the West is packed.


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## jnrjr79

futuristxen said:


> Then they should chuck money at JR Smith and start him at the 3. I think they have the cap room to do that. JR Smith would be a better scorer than Mayo and more comfortable in that pure scorer role. Then you call it a year, and get ready for the lottery again next year, because the West is packed.



With JR's baggage, you may not be talking about chucking too much dough, either.


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## Coatesvillain

I highly doubt the Knicks would move down 13 spots for cap relief. They need young talent.

I doubt they even stress cap relief considering that the Dolans are pretty much printing money at this point.


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## futuristxen

Coatesvillain said:


> I highly doubt the Knicks would move down 13 spots for cap relief. They need young talent.
> 
> I doubt they even stress cap relief considering that the Dolans are pretty much printing money at this point.


I think they stress it to the extent that Donnie Walsh has very little that he can do with the team so long as he has so many bad contracts owed to so many undesirable players.

How else would New York get rid of these contracts? This is the only time they will have the assets to do it. Do any of the players available there seem like players that would fit in New York? I think they can probably get a good enough player at 19 for their purposes, and then they'll have capspace to attract superstars in free agency, because people WANT to play in New York. But the Knicks haven't been able to sign anyone.


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## Coatesvillain

If OJ Mayo is there they'd take him. He's a sexy pick.

As to the contracts they'd probably buy out players and have dead money sitting on the cap.


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## B-Roy

OJ Mayo won't slip past Memphis, but Cleveland might be able to punk Wolves out of their pick.

McHale is just....ugh.....


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## futuristxen

How highly rated is Jerryd Bayless and Anthony Randolph? I've seen them up on people's boards, but heard no talk about either of them. Is it possible that either goes above Mayo?


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## B-Roy

futuristxen said:


> How highly rated is Jerryd Bayless and Anthony Randolph? I've seen them up on people's boards, but heard no talk about either of them. Is it possible that either goes above Mayo?


Sonics might choose to take Bayless over Mayo if the opportunity arrises. They don't really need a shooting guard in Mayo, and Bayless is more suited to play the PG out of the both of them. Mayo WON'T go lower than 5. Memphis will snatch him up. 

So yes, there's a chance, but Minnesota should make the right decision and select Mayo at 3.......which they're not going to do though.


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## futuristxen

Memphis won't draft Mayo either. Look at their team. If they draft Mayo, then why the hell did they draft Conley?

If you draft Mayo, one of Mike Miller, Conley, or Rudy Gay have to sit down, no? Or you have to play Gay at the 4 which is dumb.

No. Memphis will do the smart thing and look for Front Court help.

It'll probably go like this:

1. Beasley
2. Rose
3. Love
4. Bayless
5. Lopez
6. Mayo


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## futuristxen

If the Grizz draft Mayo, then the Cavs should immedietely offer some expirings for Mike Miller. 

I mean...the Grizz have so many players already like Mayo. That would be a strange pick, especially when they so clearly need a frontcourt player to pick up for Gasol.


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## B-Roy

futuristxen said:


> Memphis won't draft Mayo either. Look at their team. If they draft Mayo, then why the hell did they draft Conley?
> 
> If you draft Mayo, one of Mike Miller, Conley, or Rudy Gay have to sit down, no? Or you have to play Gay at the 4 which is dumb.
> 
> No. Memphis will do the smart thing and look for Front Court help.
> 
> It'll probably go like this:
> 
> 1. Beasley
> 2. Rose
> 3. Love
> 4. Bayless
> 5. Lopez
> 6. Mayo


Mayo is way more of a shooting guard, and a shooting guard with so much talent won't slip by a non-stupid GM. They could use Miller to get a more adequate front court player.

Although this is Memphis.....

Nontheless, either Memphis trades down to get someone like Love, or they take Mayo with 5.


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## rocketeer

futuristxen said:


> Memphis won't draft Mayo either. Look at their team. If they draft Mayo, then why the hell did they draft Conley?


because conley is a pg and mayo is a sg.

i don't see any way that mayo is not the 3rd pick though.


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## futuristxen

rocketeer said:


> because conley is a pg and mayo is a sg.
> 
> i don't see any way that mayo is not the 3rd pick though.


Mayo can play SG, but even he says he is a point guard. He considers his game most like Deron Williams, and he was the top player coming in as a point guard. I think Tim Floyd played him at SG because he's a gifted scorer. But if you want to force Mayo into being a PG in the NBA, why not just sign Ben Gordan, because that's what you're going to end up with.


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## B-Roy

futuristxen said:


> Mayo can play SG, but even he says he is a point guard. He considers his game most like Deron Williams, and he was the top player coming in as a point guard. I think Tim Floyd played him at SG because he's a gifted scorer. But if you want to force Mayo into being a PG in the NBA, why not just sign Ben Gordan, because that's what you're going to end up with.


Mayo would be a score first PG or a SG. Might as well just plug him in at the SG position and watch him score. 

Mayo is not Williams.....I don't care what he thinks, he doesn't play like Williams.


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## rocketeer

futuristxen said:


> Mayo can play SG, but even he says he is a point guard. He considers his game most like Deron Williams, and he was the top player coming in as a point guard. I think Tim Floyd played him at SG because he's a gifted scorer. But if you want to force Mayo into being a PG in the NBA, why not just sign Ben Gordan, because that's what you're going to end up with.


mayo still is going to play sg in the nba. positions aren't so strictly defined that he's not going to be doing a lot of handling and distributing of the ball, but whatever team he ends up with(likely the twolves unless they trade down) is going to have a pg on the floor with him.

or would you consider lebron, kobe, tmac, and wade to be pgs as well since they are the primary ball handlers for their teams?


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## futuristxen

I'm saying if the Cavs get him, he'll be the primary ball handler, and Gibson or West will play off the ball with Lebron. Just like a Chris Paul or Deron Williams does.

I think turning Mayo into a shooting guard is a mistake. I think that's a huge reason why his season with USC was underwhelming by the expectations he went into the season with, because they played him at the 2, when he is a 1.

If you put him at a 2 in the NBA you are going to get a better defending Ben Gordon. You put him at the two you will have a player in the Chris Paul/Deron Williams class.

That's just my feeling. Obviously it's not the consensus. But I think if you're looking at Mayo as a 2, there are better options out there. Maybe not in this draft. But Pietrus and JR Smith are two free agents who are both better 2's than Mayo will be.

Again if I'm the wolves, I get the big man I need, and then sign JR Smith. JR Smith is a better pure scorer than pretty much anyone in the league not named Kobe, and he very clearly is not a 1. So you don't have any of that confusion.

We'll see though. I do think if the Wolves decide to pass on Mayo, he's going to slip down to the Knicks pick, maybe even farther depending on who Walsh likes.


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## rocketeer

futuristxen said:


> If you put him at a 2 in the NBA you are going to get a better defending Ben Gordon. You put him at the two you will have a player in the Chris Paul/Deron Williams class.


i don't get the gordon comparison. mayo can shoot the ball, but gordon is a better shooter than him. and regardless of whether mayo is listed at sg, he's going to do his fair share of handling the ball and initiating the offense.



> That's just my feeling. Obviously it's not the consensus. But I think if you're looking at Mayo as a 2, there are better options out there. Maybe not in this draft. But Pietrus and JR Smith are two free agents who are both better 2's than Mayo will be.


there isn't a single thing smith or pietrus do better than mayo on the basketball court.



> Again if I'm the wolves, I get the big man I need, and then sign JR Smith. JR Smith is a better pure scorer than pretty much anyone in the league not named Kobe, and he very clearly is not a 1. So you don't have any of that confusion.


i like jr smith in the right role, but you must think of him much more highly than me. problem with the wolves is they can't get the big man they need in this draft. because he just isn't there. well unless they want to trade down for hibbert which seems like an unlikely scenario.


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## futuristxen

JR Smith is Kobe Bryant with Ricky Davis's brain. I think in terms of just pure scoring, he's better than Mayo. And Pietrus is a rough and rugged defender, I think he can defend bigger guards better than Mayo.


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## hendrix2430

futuristxen said:


> JR Smith is Kobe Bryant with Ricky Davis's brain. I think in terms of just pure scoring, he's better than Mayo. And Pietrus is a rough and rugged defender, I think he can defend bigger guards better than Mayo.


-That's going too far on both extremes here. JR Smith is talented offensively, but is no Kobe Bryant. He IS somewhat of a nutcase, but not nearly the sociopath that Davis is.

As far as Pietrus goes, I agree he's vastly underrated, and to an extent that is due to the misuse of his talents in GS. He can be a valuable asset for the Cavs, especially since he is a very good all around defender. That said, he is too streaky on offense and isn't a good enough shooter to make an true impact in M Brown's "offensive system" (assuming no major changes will be made next year).

I still believe Mike Redd is the BEST fit here. He can score 40 on any given night, is a GREAT shooter and can also go inside. While he isn't a very physical defender, he can become better in that area playing for M Brown...look at what MB's defensive system did to Wally: It made him look like an average defender, when he was known for having a Phd in Matadoran studies.


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## futuristxen

Here's what I'm saying about Redd though. Last year he shot the same exact percentages almost, as Pietrus. His percentages have been dropping in each of the last two years.

His 3pt shooting percentage is not that great, and it's falling. If he comes to Cleveland, he won't defend, AND he's going to be another player who loses his jumpshot because there is no rhythm in Mike Brown's offense. I think I'd rather go for a guy who can slash to the basket for his points, like Pietrus.

And if we're really talking about Mike Brown teaching guys to defend, let's just get JR Smith then. He's younger than Redd, and offensively a lot more versatile.


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## PD

The above trade makes too much sense to go through. McHale will likely browse ESPN and make his selection based on the information. 
He looks at Mayo and says "that is a cool last name, but we already have Foye". Lets go with that guy in Europe just to surprise people, after all I am Kevin McHale. I don't get fired.


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## TwinkieFoot

I'm a Knick fan and I could never EVER see this happening. People often complain about Randolph being a "cancer," a "loser", etc. People also attached these labels to guys like Rasheed Wallace, Vince Carter, Antawn Walker, Jason Williams, James Posey, Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Jason Terry and yet they played significant roles in taking winning teams further in the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that talent just does not grow on trees. Randolph at 25 years old has a lot of it already and still can improve his game. What he has not had the benefit of is an established system/culture of winning where he has been and was forced to be the best player on a not so good team. 

The Cavs have the culture of winning, they have strong minded individuals like Mike Brown that can reel him in and does not have to be the best player on this team next to LeBron. In other words, Randolph is a perfect fit as far as personnel goes. I think what makes him an even better fit is the current situation the Cavs are stuck in. They took a big gamble on veterans which they appear to have lost. All they have to show for that now is financial flexibility and a rapidly aging supporting cast; neither of which will satisfy LeBron. They NEED Randolph to keep LeBron happy considering how inept the Cavs looked with him not being able to get his offensive game going. The bottom line is that Randolph could make the Cavs title contenders and does not require the 6th pick to be traded along with him.


I doubt your going to get a lottery pick given your personnel situation. Your in a position where one good gamble could put you into the stratosphere as legitimate title contenders so you really don't need one. A good trade for you would be similar to the one you mentioned earlier with the Knicks and maybe Seattle.

*Cavs Trade:*
Ben Wallace...C
Joe Smith...PF
Wally Szerzbiak...SF
Damon Jones...PG
19th pick or a future first

*Cavs Receive:*
Zach Randolph...PF
Earl Watson...PG
Quentin Richardson...G/F
Jared Jefferies...F

*Sonics Trades:*
Earl Watson...PG

*Sonics Recieves:*
Malik Rose...PF
19th pick or a future first from CLE

*Knicks Trade:*
Zach Randolph...PF
Malik Rose...PF
Quentin Richardson...G/F
Jared Jefferies...F

*Knicks Receive:*
Ben Wallace...F/C
Joe Smith....PF
Wally Szerzbiak...SF
Damon Jones...PG


Such a trade works out in favor of all the teams involved. The Cavs get a solid young 20-10 PF in Zach Randolph. He has not won as a player but neither did Pau Gasol and you see what he means to the Lakers while not being the best player on the team. They also get some solid role players (Quentin Richardson and Jared Jefferies) that are as effective if not more effective than the players they are shipping out (Damon Jones and Wally Szerzbiak). I think another big plus of this trade is Earl Watson. The Cavs have had interest in him for years and rightfully so. He'd fulfill a lot of their PG issues they have had the past several years.

The Knicks gain some financial flexibility which is what they are looking for while trying to rebuild. Guys like Ben Wallace and Joe Smith certainly have reached the ends of their careers but could offer a lot to this franchise as elderstatesmen, serving as role models for the hard work, knowledge and dedication necessary to win. Damon Jones as a player is not worth the tiolet paper he uses to whip his butt with but has a great personality. His humor could bring a team together especially given the huge personnel turnover that is likely to occur the next few years; chemistry and cohesiveness are the first step to winning. He can at least shoot and play spot defense, making him servicable on the court and useful next to Curry.

The Sonics make the move because it lands them a draft pick. They and Watson have had a tumultous relationship so I think their will be no love lost from them going their own ways. This move allows them to do so by getting rid of his contract, bringing in a guy who is a solid role model for a year and gaining a draft pick which they value heavily.


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## E.H. Munro

B-Roy said:


> Mayo is way more of a shooting guard, and a shooting guard with so much talent won't slip by a non-stupid GM. They could use Miller to get a more adequate front court player.


Mayo is a point guard. Whether he plays the 1 or the 2 he's going to be the guy running the offense. He's far better at that than being a primary scoring option.


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## futuristxen

TwinkieFoot said:


> I'm a Knick fan and I could never EVER see this happening. People often complain about Randolph being a "cancer," a "loser", etc. People also attached these labels to guys like Rasheed Wallace, Vince Carter, Antawn Walker, Jason Williams, James Posey, Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Jason Terry and yet they played significant roles in taking winning teams further in the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that talent just does not grow on trees. Randolph at 25 years old has a lot of it already and still can improve his game. What he has not had the benefit of is an established system/culture of winning where he has been and was forced to be the best player on a not so good team.
> 
> The Cavs have the culture of winning, they have strong minded individuals like Mike Brown that can reel him in and does not have to be the best player on this team next to LeBron. In other words, Randolph is a perfect fit as far as personnel goes. I think what makes him an even better fit is the current situation the Cavs are stuck in. They took a big gamble on veterans which they appear to have lost. All they have to show for that now is financial flexibility and a rapidly aging supporting cast; neither of which will satisfy LeBron. They NEED Randolph to keep LeBron happy considering how inept the Cavs looked with him not being able to get his offensive game going. The bottom line is that Randolph could make the Cavs title contenders and does not require the 6th pick to be traded along with him.
> 
> 
> I doubt your going to get a lottery pick given your personnel situation. Your in a position where one good gamble could put you into the stratosphere as legitimate title contenders so you really don't need one. A good trade for you would be similar to the one you mentioned earlier with the Knicks and maybe Seattle.
> 
> *Cavs Trade:*
> Ben Wallace...C
> Joe Smith...PF
> Wally Szerzbiak...SF
> Damon Jones...PG
> 19th pick or a future first
> 
> *Cavs Receive:*
> Zach Randolph...PF
> Earl Watson...PG
> Quentin Richardson...G/F
> Jared Jefferies...F
> 
> *Sonics Trades:*
> Earl Watson...PG
> 
> *Sonics Recieves:*
> Malik Rose...PF
> 19th pick or a future first from CLE
> 
> *Knicks Trade:*
> Zach Randolph...PF
> Malik Rose...PF
> Quentin Richardson...G/F
> Jared Jefferies...F
> 
> *Knicks Receive:*
> Ben Wallace...F/C
> Joe Smith....PF
> Wally Szerzbiak...SF
> Damon Jones...PG
> 
> 
> Such a trade works out in favor of all the teams involved. The Cavs get a solid young 20-10 PF in Zach Randolph. He has not won as a player but neither did Pau Gasol and you see what he means to the Lakers while not being the best player on the team. They also get some solid role players (Quentin Richardson and Jared Jefferies) that are as effective if not more effective than the players they are shipping out (Damon Jones and Wally Szerzbiak). I think another big plus of this trade is Earl Watson. The Cavs have had interest in him for years and rightfully so. He'd fulfill a lot of their PG issues they have had the past several years.
> 
> The Knicks gain some financial flexibility which is what they are looking for while trying to rebuild. Guys like Ben Wallace and Joe Smith certainly have reached the ends of their careers but could offer a lot to this franchise as elderstatesmen, serving as role models for the hard work, knowledge and dedication necessary to win. Damon Jones as a player is not worth the tiolet paper he uses to whip his butt with but has a great personality. His humor could bring a team together especially given the huge personnel turnover that is likely to occur the next few years; chemistry and cohesiveness are the first step to winning. He can at least shoot and play spot defense, making him servicable on the court and useful next to Curry.
> 
> The Sonics make the move because it lands them a draft pick. They and Watson have had a tumultous relationship so I think their will be no love lost from them going their own ways. This move allows them to do so by getting rid of his contract, bringing in a guy who is a solid role model for a year and gaining a draft pick which they value heavily.


The Cavs don't want Knicks garbage. The only thing that the Knicks have that is worth giving them the financial flexibility to get Lebron James is a draft pick. And you have us giving up our pick, when we need to get younger and more athletic. Sorry. But that aint' happening.It's entirely possible if we traded for Randolph we'd immedietely begin negotiating a buy out.


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## TwinkieFoot

futuristxen said:


> The Cavs don't want Knicks garbage. The only thing that the Knicks have that is worth giving them the financial flexibility to get Lebron James is a draft pick. And you have us giving up our pick, when we need to get younger and more athletic. Sorry. But that aint' happening.It's entirely possible if we traded for Randolph we'd immedietely begin negotiating a buy out.


Funny because judging from your trades, it appeared as though you did. After watching the playoffs I think it is fairly evident you NEED our garbage. Once again, Randolph could have a Pau Gasol like effect on your team that has no 2nd option. Randolph has failed in the lead role position as has Gasol but could flourish behind the kind of guy you build your team around. I'm very interested in hearing what you'd have to say about that and several other points that you did not address in your post. 

P.S., Quentin Richardson is only 27 and Jared Jefferies is 25 years old along with 25 year old Zach Randolph. You want youth? This trade gives you that but with players that can contribute much more than a draft pick will off the jump. The present is all that really matters for you guys because if you can't allow LeBron to be competitive, you better believe he'll be looking to leave. Still, I would find it hard to see him leave the Cavs with all the money they'd have the offer and the fact it is his hometown, Jay-Z, the Knicks or not.


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## futuristxen

It's hard to believe Randolph is only 25.

The reason I proposed taking the knicks garbage was to get a higher draft pick to get Mayo. It had nothing to do with a desire to get the Knicks garbage.

While I think some of their failings are a bit overstated, I wouldn't want to trade all of our assets for just their players. I don't think that's enough of an upgrade. Just those players.


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## TwinkieFoot

futuristxen said:


> It's hard to believe Randolph is only 25.
> 
> The reason I proposed taking the knicks garbage was to get a higher draft pick to get Mayo. It had nothing to do with a desire to get the Knicks garbage.
> 
> While I think some of their failings are a bit overstated, I wouldn't want to trade all of our assets for just their players. I don't think that's enough of an upgrade. Just those players.


You mean a guy capable of giving you at least 20 and 10, who still has time to improve his game is not "enough of an upgrade?" Since when did big men become so irrelevant, in particular, this one? I think people are too quick to forget that most considered this guy to be a franchise player because of how well he's played. What has changed really aside from his overall game improving? Not to mention you'll be getting a PG you've coveted the past 2 seasons.


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## rocketeer

TwinkieFoot said:


> You mean a guy capable of giving you at least 20 and 10, who still has time to improve his game is not "enough of an upgrade?" Since when did big men become so irrelevant, in particular, this one? I think people are too quick to forget that most considered this guy to be a franchise player because of how well he's played. What has changed really aside from his overall game improving? Not to mention you'll be getting a PG you've coveted the past 2 seasons.


20 and 10 really isn't that good when you're giving up more than that on the other end, shooting only 46%, and have a .75 assist to turnover ratio. there is a reason no team wants randolph. it's because he really isn't that good.


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## TwinkieFoot

rocketeer said:


> 20 and 10 really isn't that good when you're giving up more than that on the other end, shooting only 46%, and have a .75 assist to turnover ratio. there is a reason no team wants randolph. it's because he really isn't that good.


When did nearly making half of the shots become a mediocre thing? 

Everything you said about Randolph could have been said for Pau Gasol, yet Gasol helped get the Lakers into the Finals. As a 2nd option, Randolph could have a similar impact.


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## futuristxen

TwinkieFoot said:


> You mean a guy capable of giving you at least 20 and 10, who still has time to improve his game is not "enough of an upgrade?" Since when did big men become so irrelevant, in particular, this one? I think people are too quick to forget that most considered this guy to be a franchise player because of how well he's played. What has changed really aside from his overall game improving? Not to mention you'll be getting a PG you've coveted the past 2 seasons.


If we wanted Earl Watson wouldn't we have traded for him already, or signed him already? We've had ample opportunity to get him, and haven't for whatever reason.

The issue with Randolph is that he has character issues, and the Blazers got better by him leaving, and the Knicks didn't get better by him arriving. He actually caused Curry's game to regress. So I'm a little weary.

Plus if he were so great, you wouldn't want Ben Wallace for him. Incidentally, why do the Knicks want Ben Wallace? He has a horrible contract, and showed with the Bulls he is a cancer on losing teams.

I would want to explore other trades first before settling on that one.


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## rocketeer

TwinkieFoot said:


> When did nearly making half of the shots become a mediocre thing?
> 
> Everything you said about Randolph could have been said for Pau Gasol, yet Gasol helped get the Lakers into the Finals. As a 2nd option, Randolph could have a similar impact.


besides gasol being a much more efficient scorer than randolph, also being a much better defender, and a much better passer who turns the ball over less, yeah i guess you're right.

and yes shooting 46% for a big man is a bad thing.


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## TwinkieFoot

rocketeer said:


> besides gasol being a much more efficient scorer than randolph, also being a much better defender, and a much better passer who turns the ball over less, yeah i guess you're right.
> 
> and yes shooting 46% for a big man is a bad thing.


A much more efficient scorer and defender? By what stretch of the imagination? Gasol starts to play next to a real superstar in Kobe Bryant and now everyone forgets the warts in his game. Gasol was and still is soft. The only difference now is that he's not the main guy on a team.

P.S., 46% is far from a bad shooting percentage. With LeBron James on his team to take pressure off of him offensively, I think his shooting percentage would skyrocket considering he's never played with this kind of player.


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## TwinkieFoot

futuristxen said:


> If we wanted Earl Watson wouldn't we have traded for him already, or signed him already? We've had ample opportunity to get him, and haven't for whatever reason.
> 
> The issue with Randolph is that he has character issues, and the Blazers got better by him leaving, and the Knicks didn't get better by him arriving. He actually caused Curry's game to regress. So I'm a little weary.
> 
> Plus if he were so great, you wouldn't want Ben Wallace for him. Incidentally, why do the Knicks want Ben Wallace? He has a horrible contract, and showed with the Bulls he is a cancer on losing teams.
> 
> I would want to explore other trades first before settling on that one.


...Because you did not have any real trade assets to bring in a guy like Watson up until now when you have a few expiring contracts.

Rasheed Wallace had character issues and it worked out well with the Pistons. The game is all about fits and Zach Randolph did not fit with the Knicks because our best player basically played the same game as he did. Cleveland has no player that resembles or can do what Randolph can do as well as he does it.

As for the Ben Wallace side of the trade, the NBA is a business. Ben Wallace becomes irrelevant bringing in Randolph who plays the same position he does. Why would you hold onto him and assume Randolph's multi-year contract? To make the deal more realistic, Wallace would have to be included especially because of his crowd appeal. As bad as he is now, Knick fans would love his demeanor and overall game.


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## rocketeer

TwinkieFoot said:


> A much more efficient scorer and defender? By what stretch of the imagination? Gasol starts to play next to a real superstar in Kobe Bryant and now everyone forgets the warts in his game. Gasol was and still is soft. The only difference now is that he's not the main guy on a team.


well gasol's career shooting percentage is 5% better than randolph's. then you take into account that gasol has had the highest fg percentage of his career the last two years and that randolph's best shooting years were in his first few in the league and it's not hard to see that gasol is a much more efficient scorer than randolph. then you also see that even though gasol played more minutes he had 1 less turnover per game than randolph. and then you take into account that gasol has always been a good passer that moves the ball while randolph is a bad passer that is a black hole on offense. is all of this really hard for you to understand?

and yes gasol is a much better defender than randolph. randolph brings nothing to the table of defense. gasol is decent. and if nothing else gasol at least blocks shots where randolph only blocks a shot every 4-5 games.

randolph in no way should be compared to gasol as a similar addition to any team.

and as i've said several times before, no one wants randolph. there is a reason the knicks are unable to trade him. no one wants him. he does not have any trade value. it says a lot about how bad he is when you want to trade him for ben wallace and the cavs wouldn't even do that.


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## DANNY

whats with all the lust for OJ Mayo?

How does his game fit with lebron? Mike Brown offensive creativity is so limited I'm having a hard time seeing OJ using his creativity to create his own basket. unless the cavs are considering OJ as one of the best spot of shooter, i dont see any point of acquiring him. add to the fact that he's going to be a rookie, how much is he really going to contribute to help lebron get back to the finals? a move like this would only encourage lebron to opt out in 2010. he might be young but you can only be patient for so long.


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## rocketeer

DANNY said:


> whats with all the lust for OJ Mayo?
> 
> How does his game fit with lebron? Mike Brown offensive creativity is so limited I'm having a hard time seeing OJ using his creativity to create his own basket. unless the cavs are considering OJ as one of the best spot of shooter, i dont see any point of acquiring him. add to the fact that he's going to be a rookie, how much is he really going to contribute to help lebron get back to the finals? a move like this would only encourage lebron to opt out in 2010. he might be young but you can only be patient for so long.


does lebron play 48 minutes per game? the cavs need someone else on their roster who can create good shots other than lebron.


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## Benedict_Boozer

Have to applaud Twinkie for his effort defending Randolph, he's selling him hard. Unfortunately for him, that's an uphill battle :biggrin:


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## futuristxen

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Have to applaud Twinkie for his effort defending Randolph, he's selling him hard. Unfortunately for him, that's an uphill battle :biggrin:


And that we're not Danny Ferry, so selling us, still doesn't mean the trade will go through.


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