# Im am missing SPREE



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Am i the only one who thinks this team really misses SPREE??We just dont seem to have ant energy or fire...

The team looks good on paper,but they just sukkk on the court...

I think back when we went to the finals....Camby,LJ,ward houston and spree....

On paper we should be better now,but we arent.....

Say what you will about SPREE but I really feel he made this team go....

And i was in favor of the KVH...though i would have rather seen Houston go

opinions


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

The Knicks would be a much better team with Spree instead of Van Horn cuz he has the killer instinct I would love to see Marbury with Spree.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

Everyone is tradeable except Marbury. Whole roster needs a re-vamp to become a *championship* contender.

I heard some type of deal for Memphis with us getting STromile Swift and Battier for some people. Need to look into that....


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i love swifts potential..dont know if he will ever realise it,but he has the tools


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## 82 (Jul 11, 2002)

who would we possibly give up? Neither of those guys make any money so it would have to be a two for one I'd imagine. Can't see one player who the Griz would really be after. Especially since we've already traded away two future 1st round picks


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Don't worry, I'm sure the genius has already offered Shandon Anderson for Stromile Swift.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

LOL..which Genius...Your boy LAYDEN who signed him,or The genius Thomas who wants to dump him....

You really miss Eisly dont you???:heart: 

What is it you like about Layden so much???? 

What is it you liked about the Knicks so much early in the year?? 

Do you always judge peoples performance after 3 weeks?:yes: 

Do you realise you and Laden are quite similar??


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> LOL..which Genius...Your boy LAYDEN who signed him,or The genius Thomas who wants to dump him....


Wasn't it Houston who signed him? It was NY who traded for him.



> You really miss Eisly dont you???


Not really, I still don't hold Frank Williams in much higher esteem, though time will tell on whether it was worth taking on Penny's even more ridiculous contract.



> What is it you like about Layden so much????


I don't like or dislike him, because more than half of his moves were forced upon him. The GM that never was.



> What is it you liked about the Knicks so much early in the year??


A youth movement and a chase for the 8th seed. Right now the Knicks have scrapped the youth movement in pursuit of the 6th seed.



> Do you always judge peoples performance after 3 weeks?


Why don't you ask your fellow Knick fans who have already passed their own judgement on Moochie Norris? I think I've been a good sport, considering Norris is Howard Eisley minus the jumpshot and A/T ratio. What else did Eisley have after that?



> Do you realise you and Laden are quite similar??


Do you realize that you and I are quite similar?

Which means...

Layden = Rashidi = You.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

perhaps you are my long lost brother i never had...scary thought 

by the way,that was the most direct post you have ever had..i knew you had it in you...

and for the record,i was not crazy about the starbury/penny deal...i like franks game and would have rather gotten a post player,and kept some of our youth.....

of course,i would have rather nuked the team.....


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## 82 (Jul 11, 2002)

If I'm not mistaken didn't Layden trade for Shandon, who was an expiring contract at the time, but them immediately extend his contract at an exorbatent amount? This was a move that most people should be killed for.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i think Shandonn and eisly came over in the Rice trade...another savvy move by layden...not quite as bad as the spoon acquisition and certainly not as bad as overpaying houston by 50 million bucks.....


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> If I'm not mistaken didn't Layden trade for Shandon, who was an expiring contract at the time, but them immediately extend his contract at an exorbatent amount?


Which means that it had to be done to make the deal work capwise. Shandon and Eisley >>> Glen Rice.

If Shandon and Eisley were cut today, they'd be still able to find work and be part of some team's rotation. Glen Rice was just cut from the Clippers.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Which means that it had to be done to make the deal work capwise. Shandon and Eisley >>> Glen Rice.


Unless it's a sign-and-trade I've never heard of having to give an extension to make a deal work capwise.



> If Shandon and Eisley were cut today, they'd be still able to find work and be part of some team's rotation. Glen Rice was just cut from the Clippers.


Trading FOR Rice was the problem, Eisley and Anderson were desperate reprocussions.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

spree is the best thing in minny!!! or than kg


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Trading FOR Rice was the problem, Eisley and Anderson were desperate reprocussions.


Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying for a long time. Go talk to Dave Checketts, not Scott Layden.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying for a long time. Go talk to Dave Checketts, not Scott Layden.


Once again, Checkett's was the President of all of MSG's operations. His involvement was to okay a trading of Ewing, NOT to select who he was traded FOR. That was the GM's (Layden's) job.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Rashidi,in your mind what function does the GM serve....

You cant say layden is responsible for signing the players that worked out and blame everything else on Checketts and Dolan..

If anything,Dolan was exceedingly fair with layden and especially Chaney..

You can NOT NOT NOT have the highest payroll in the league,miss the playoffs and start the year playing .300 ball and not expect to get fired...

i admire you freakish cultlike devotion to those closest to your heart:uhoh:


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

It would appear what Rashidi liked about Layden (and I think this description is far too generous) is that Layden was a spineless lackey, who was willing to sell out the team by executing other's decisions in his own name, all the while collecting millions to do nothing but scam free pretzles from the underpaid concession girls and staying behind to try on Knicks' jock straps while they play away games.

That's what a good GM does...


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Thats what happens when you spend too much time in UTAH


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

http://www.bupipedream.com/020305/sports/s4.html



> NEW YORK – When Cablevision CEO James Dolan told former Madison Square Garden president Dave Checketts last May that he wanted to take charge of the New York Knicks, Checketts agreed to step down. But before walking out the door, Checketts warned Dolan it was time to tear the Knicks apart and start over because their 14-year run in the playoffs was over after a first-round loss to Toronto.
> 
> Checketts’ last words to Dolan were: “You ought to blow this place up because this mix didn’t beat Toronto, and we’ve gone as far as we can with it. We need to change things.”
> 
> ...


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

http://www.nynewsday.com/sports/bas...jan22,0,765870.story?coll=ny-knicks-headlines



> By Greg Logan
> STAFF CORRESPONDENT
> 
> January 22, 2004
> ...


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

that still doesnt explain why layden sat there like dunce and isiah got marbury, and traded eisly and spoon...layden stunk up the joint,is a terrible judge of talent and is clueless and unemployed...sorry dude,numbers dont lie....You can show me any articles you want,any stats you come up with,but in the words of the immortal Vince lombardi

Winning isnt everything,its the ONLY thing.....

layden was/is a loser..say hi to him on the unemployment line


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Do you need it spelled out once a week?



> that still doesnt explain why layden sat there like dunce and isiah got marbury, and traded eisly and spoon..


Why did Layden not get Marbury?

1. He was fired before he could make the deal. Remember, he's the one who set it up.

2. For the last frickin time, Layden was unwilling to give up the future.

And who cares if he dumped Spoon? He got Moochie Norris in return, who is even worse.



> You can show me any articles you want,any stats you come up with,but in the words of the immortal Vince lombardi


Too bad the NBA ain't the NFL.



> layden was/is a loser.


Lets see... Layden went to Finals twice as GM of Utah...

Thomas buried the CBA, and did a horrible coaching job with Indiana.



> say hi to him on the unemployment line


I'm employed, genius.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Good articles Rashidi.

Kudos, sincerely, you proved you were justified in saying Dolan and Checketts played a role in the Ewing and Sprewell trade. You're not such a bad guy after all.

I never disagreed. I've always known Dolan was foolish to involve himself in Knicks affairs as he was self-admittedly not a basketball person.

My problem with Layden was he was given an open pocketbook and could not produce. He was penny-wise and dollar-foolish. And he kept picking redundant type players, and never filling badly needed leadership roles, and always contending he was pleased witht he team even in the face of obvious problems. He gave no indication he had the authority or conviction to do what needed to be done, and he simply didn't get it done.

Now you can say he didn't have authority, but there are plenty of fine men out there who would not accept o continue to work under the condition of being a fall-guy. Isiah is being given the same open pocketbook and win-now mandate, and while years later, when we complain about the state of the Knicks, some may say it was a bad decision not to blow the team up, and blame Dolan, no one will say Isiah wasn't responsible for the form the Knicks took under his tenure. He wants to be accountable for this team and there is no doubt about it. That engenders a certain trust that at least HE thinks he knows what he's doing. Layden wanted to be invisible and his moves here and in Utah engendered little trust from anybody. I'm sure he's a fine man. There may be no one I'd rather entrust with a secret. But he was the wrong man for this job and I hope he can find better success elsewhere.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

he would be hard pressed not to find better succes elsewhere....

rashidi,i dont know what you do for a living and i am not asking..but i can tell you,i work in a very result oriented profesion..if i stop producing,i am OUT,be it fair or not..I can point my finger at the managing director or whoever i want,but bottom line is i will be out on my AAsssss.....

But this is the fate i chose..Just as layden chose his...The NBA is no different than the NFL,no different than Wall street...Wealthy owners,huge egos....This stuff happens all the time....

I dont know why you cant come to grips with this


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

have you ever heard of the expression

You are only as good as your last trade....

Thats is upper corporate America


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> The NBA is no different than the NFL,no different than Wall street...


Fraid not. Like I said before, losing games (to tough teams due to a tough early schedule) does not mean you are doing a bad job. Basketball is not the stock market, stop making ridiculous comparisons. Maybe you're thinking of fantasy basketball or something.



> You are only as good as your last trade....


Interestingly enough, Layden's last trade was forced upon him by Dolan, and the Van Horn/Spree trade doesn't exactly qualify as bad. I always got the impression that Layden would be fired BEFORE he could make a trade so whoever the new GM were could put his stamp on the team.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

So what are the Layden moves you do like? The ones that have you go to such great lengths to support his term here?

Here was the starting roster he inherited, and I'll assume the Ewing trade was not his:

Camby, Center
LJ, PF
Sprewell, SF
Houston, SG
Ward, PG

The significant reserves were:
Mark Jackson
Glenn Rice
KT


That team in 2000-01 went 48-34, coming off of a trip to the finals.

When he left:
Motumbo
KT
VH
Houston
Eisley

Reserves:
Ward
Anderson
Spoon

That team was around .333 when he left (or there abouts if I remember correctly) after two years in the lottery.

Were are the significant upgrades? Just what is it in his term you trying so hard to defend?


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