# Knicks Trade



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

I'm going to start off by saying that just because I propose this deal, does not mean I am unsatisfied with the players I am requesting being moved. These proposed trades are simply food for thought and ways to improve the team which is what is the most important thing at hand.

It appears as though the Sonics have reservations about offering Chris Wilcox a contract. Although he had a very impressive year last year, most wonder whether he can maintain some kind of consistency and improve. I believe he'd be the perfect fit for this team at the 5 or 4 spot. His teammate Rashard Lewis is also a guy that I feel could mesh with this team. What do you guys think about the idea of moving Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Nate Robinson, Jerome James and cash for Chris Wilcox and Rashard Lewis? Again, just some food for thought and certainly not a finalized trade but one to think about. I like the move because it add's players that we need and alleviates issues about playing time in the backcourt. Of course, it puts alot of pressure on Collins and Balkman to perform but it's pressure that they need. What do you guys think?


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Seattle says no. We already have 4 centers on the roster (if Sene doesn't go D-league). We don't need two more, and Jerome isn't welcome in Seattle.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Seattle says no. We already have 4 centers on the roster (if Sene doesn't go D-league). We don't need two more, and Jerome isn't welcome in Seattle.


LOL! I can just imagine the Seattle crowd singing "Welcome back"


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Gotham2krazy said:


> LOL! I can just imagine the Seattle crowd singing "Welcome back"


I was an idiot for trusting someone but there was supposedly a rumor on ESPN insider that stated the Sonics would be interested in reacquiring Jerome James. As one person put it, James is like the part to a '38 Buick. He works with that car but isn't very valueable elsewhere. With the Sonics, he proved he could be a serviceable player so they may not have any reservations taking him back on especially with the Wilcox situation. The remaining players left to patrol the paint are far from being effective players so I could see the reason behind the trade even though the rumor does not appear to exist after I scurried ESPN.com.

As for the trade I proposed, it was based on the premise that the Sonics were trying to save money. From the sound of things, they are extremely interested in this Michael Galebele player they drafted a year or so ago. He's a natural SF, coincidently the same position that Rashard Lewis plays and who wants more money from a franchise that's been reluctant to add payroll. Working under this thought process, I felt that if we were able to supply the Sonics with the backcourt players (who are Seattle natives) that both can fill the PG position which is supposedly a weakness (heard they are unsatisfied with Watson as a backup) for the Sonics along with a big man that has the potential to be an all-star in the league but at a fraction of the price Wilcox but still fit into the team, that a deal could be made. They remain as about effective as they are now but also don't have to worry about paying Rashard Lewis much more money after he opts out or Chris' contract that supposedly will be worth $60 million. The Sonics financial issues stem from fan support presumablely so it's possible that adding two Seattle natives who happen to play an exciting brand of basketball will help PR (public relations).

From a Knicks standpoint, you make the deal because I believe it leaves us with better fits. Wilcox is much more adept a defender than Curry to help make up for issues as a team defensively. As I mentioned before, Isiah's interest in Kenyon Martin stems from the belief the team needs some kind of enforcer down low to serve as the back bone of the defense. From what I've seen of Wilcox, he seems capable of handling such a role and expanding his resume in the near future. Chris is much more than a defender but a developing scorer as well. He's shown that he's very capable of playing within an uptempo system so he would and should very well be an excellent fit for us on both ends of the floor. Like Chris, Rashard Lewis has purpose as well. His range and ability to move without the ball suits both Marbury and Francis very well. As I've mentioned several times before in the past, our backcourt runs it's offense from driving and then kicking out to open teammates. Rashard is a guy that could capitalize on the space both players provide and not intefere with what both players do best thus creating chemistry. What I like about Rashard, especially, is his length, which would suit this team well. I am a firm believer that we should look to zone it up this year. By doing so, we negate the fact that we have mediocre one on one defenders but maximize the effectiveness of our defense. Anyone who knows basketball knows that a zone operates on guarding a space instead of a man. Rashard's long arms covers a greater distance than most experience on the perimeter and in turn disrupts drives to the basket and reinforces his ability to guard that space. This helps strengthen the main objective of a zone which is to keep opposing teams on the perimeter rather than the paint or interior where the likihood of making a shot increases. Of course most coaches don't like zone because in it, a player is usually left open. I don't consider it to be much of a problem because most guys just can't make you pay for the open look anymore anymore. If you take into consideration the added length and speed of our defenders, the players left open won't see much daylight to make it matter. Once again: ZONE IT UP!!!!!

P.S., playing a zone also benefits out offense. As we all know ", for every reaction, there is an equal an opposite reaction." You force teams to shoot from longer range, then you position yourself for long rebounds. Although we may not be the strongest rebounding team in the league, a closer look reveals that we have excellent perimeter rebounders. Francis, Richardson, Lee, Crawford and Balkman all are excellent perimeter rebounders that will figure to play a important role for us in our rotation come November. The ability to secure long rebounds can only help to fuel the team's ability to push the ball up court. We have guys who could get up and down the court pretty quickly so they'd be able to easily capitalize on the fact that the defense has yet to set up since there already ahead of it.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> I was an idiot for trusting someone but there was supposedly a rumor on ESPN insider that stated the Sonics would be interested in reacquiring Jerome James. As one person put it, James is like the part to a '38 Buick. He works with that car but isn't very valueable elsewhere. With the Sonics, he proved he could be a serviceable player so they may not have any reservations taking him back on especially with the Wilcox situation. The remaining players left to patrol the paint are far from being effective players so I could see the reason behind the trade even though the rumor does not appear to exist after I scurried ESPN.com.


There was actually a rumor? I think I speak for every Sonic fan when I say: "**** no, Jerome."



> As for the trade I proposed, it was based on the premise that the Sonics were trying to save money. From the sound of things, they are extremely interested in this Michael Galebele player they drafted a year or so ago. He's a natural SF, coincidently the same position that Rashard Lewis plays and who wants more money from a franchise that's been reluctant to add payroll.


Gelebale (who was picked right before a potential star in Andray Blatche, I'm still pissed about it, but that's another story) is a 2nd round pick. Most likely, he won't be in consideration for a starting job. And as far as I know, no source has ever said management is not willing to re-sign Lewis. The speculation is that if Lewis asks for a max, which is likely, Sonics might not be able to re-sign. It's up to Lewis if he wants to be a part of the team.



> Working under this thought process, I felt that if we were able to supply the Sonics with the backcourt players (who are Seattle natives) that both can fill the PG position which is supposedly a weakness (heard they are unsatisfied with Watson as a backup) for the Sonics along with a big man that has the potential to be an all-star in the league but at a fraction of the price Wilcox but still fit into the team, that a deal could be made. They remain as about effective as they are now but also don't have to worry about paying Rashard Lewis much more money after he opts out or Chris' contract that supposedly will be worth $60 million. The Sonics financial issues stem from fan support presumablely so it's possible that adding two Seattle natives who happen to play an exciting brand of basketball will help PR (public relations).


The PG position is not a weakness. We are very happy with Watson as a backup, and some want him as a starter. People are starting to like him over Ridnour. However, I wouldn't mind trading Luke, Mikki Moore and a 2nd rounder for Nate Robinson and Renaldo Balkman.

Seattle doesn't want another center, unless it's Shaq or Yao. We have three 19 year old centers, so please, no more potential stars.

The Sonics financial issues do not stem from a lack of fan support. The issues come from a disagreement between the city council and the owners about an expansion of KeyArena, so there will be more VIP seats. The PR problem is the new owners moving to OK city.

Please say yes to Luke + Moore + 2nd for Nate + Balkman.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

WTChan said:


> Gelebale (who was picked right before a potential star in Andray Blatche, I'm still pissed about it, but that's another story) is a 2nd round pick. Most likely, he won't be in consideration for a starting job. And as far as I know, no source has ever said management is not willing to re-sign Lewis. The speculation is that if Lewis asks for a max, which is likely, Sonics might not be able to re-sign. It's up to Lewis if he wants to be a part of the team.
> 
> The PG position is not a weakness. We are very happy with Watson as a backup, and some want him as a starter. People are starting to like him over Ridnour. However, I wouldn't mind trading Luke, Mikki Moore and a 2nd rounder for Nate Robinson and Renaldo Balkman.
> 
> ...


Over the past couple of months, I kept an eye on the situation with Mickeal and the Sonics because of the intriguing possibilities. From what I understand, the Sonics are so confident in his game, that it influenced their decision to choose Sene Sear over other talented players still left on the board at 10. Here's a link to back some of that up:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_bkn_supersonics_gelabale.html
It is possible that if Mickeal is everything I've been hearing and the fact that Damien Wilkins (who signed a 5 year deal with a team known to be frugal) has and can play effectively at the 3, that I feel Rashard becomes expendable especially when you consider the fact that he may very well opt out. Most of this isn't just pipedream on my part. An article from NBADraftExpress confirmed the fact that the Sonics feel threatened by the prospects of losing Lewis. It states "Seattle is interested in moving Rashard Lewis due to the fact that they believe he will opt out of his contract next summer and will end up losing him for nothing. With so many concerns about the future of the franchise in Seattle, the best way to put fans in the seats is certainly to start winning more games, which is the primary motive [of] the trade." http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1369

That article not only confirms the Sonics fear but also confirms the need to liven up the team in order to "put fans in the seats," which I mentioned as being an issue for the Sonics. Two ways of doing so is to win games but another important factor is to work PR which worked favorably for the Bulls over the years that continued to pack an arena every game to see a bottom feeder. The best way to work the community may be to bring in two Seattle natives that also play an exciting brand of basketball.[/B]

*As for the Sonics PG position, you may very well be right. I do remember hearing something about problems between Watson's playing time with the Sonics but that may have been before Weis was fired. Again, I'll defer to you on this one because I can't find an article supporting this. Personally, I thought your PG situation was fairly strong but that article made me believe you guys were not satisfied.

Although the Sonics have depth at the 4 and 5 spot, depth does not always translate into quality. Do not get me wrong because I liked Robert Swift alot as a player before he was drafted but all in all, the rest don't appear to be all that impressive (not regarding Sene whose game I'm fimilar with). A guy like Petro could easily find himself as a long term bench warmer since guys like Fransico Elson who I believe are better, have taken and accepted lesser roles. If the Sonics were comfortable enough with their big man situation, they would have never traded for Wilcox or attempted to resign him. Bob Hill confirmed this need when he stated "Big players make a difference and change the game. You've got to have that size. Thinking you're going to win a championship without those big guys is going against City Hall. It's just not going to happen," with the Seattle Post Intelligencer. Although this need is wildly recognized, the Sonics are reluctant to pay the money to secure a high caliber big man. For the most part, Eddy Curry could fulfill that need at an economically reasonable price compared to most centers in today's league. He's making just $8.1 million this year and has about 4 more years left on his contract. By contrast, part time contributors like Erick Dampier and Adonal Foyle make $8.6 million and $8.1 million. Curry changes the game more but still has the ability to improve because of his youth. I believe it would be a win-win for both teams.

As for the trade you mentioned, we're already have a deep back-court so have no use for Ridnour despite him being a talented player. Mikki Moore is a guy I'd like to add to the roster however because he gets the job done as a 3rd strong center that can contribute to changing the game.*


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Gelebale (who was picked right before a potential star in Andray Blatche, I'm still pissed about it, but that's another story) is a 2nd round pick. Most likely, he won't be in consideration for a starting job. And as far as I know, no source has ever said management is not willing to re-sign Lewis. The speculation is that if Lewis asks for a max, which is likely, Sonics might not be able to re-sign. It's up to Lewis if he wants to be a part of the team.


What's so special about Blatche?


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Over the past couple of months, I kept an eye on the situation with Mickeal and the Sonics because of the intriguing possibilities. From what I understand, the Sonics are so confident in his game, that it influenced their decision to choose Sene Sear over other talented players still left on the board at 10. Here's a link to back some of that up:
> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_bkn_supersonics_gelabale.html
> It is possible that if Mickeal is everything I've been hearing and the fact that Damien Wilkins (who signed a 5 year deal with a team known to be frugal) has and can play effectively at the 3, that I feel Rashard becomes expendable especially when you consider the fact that he may very well opt out. Most of this isn't just pipedream on my part. An article from NBADraftExpress confirmed the fact that the Sonics feel threatened by the prospects of losing Lewis. It states "Seattle is interested in moving Rashard Lewis due to the fact that they believe he will opt out of his contract next summer and will end up losing him for nothing. With so many concerns about the future of the franchise in Seattle, the best way to put fans in the seats is certainly to start winning more games, which is the primary motive [of] the trade." http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1369
> 
> That article not only confirms the Sonics fear but also confirms the need to liven up the team in order to "put fans in the seats," which I mentioned as being an issue for the Sonics. Two ways of doing so is to win games but another important factor is to work PR which worked favorably for the Bulls over the years that continued to pack an arena every game to see a bottom feeder. The best way to work the community may be to bring in two Seattle natives that also play an exciting brand of basketball.[/B]


Gelebale isn't going to be a starter. As far as I know, we are just glad we'll have some depth. I don't think what Givony reported was fact- it could very well be, and it is very logical. Personally, I would like to move Lewis (I would also like to rebuild, but that's another story). I would also like to move Wilcox, as I don't think a run-n-gun style can contend, but I know I don't speak for all Sonic fans when I say that. I just don't like this deal. I don't think Curry is going to get any better, and I'd rather take my chances with the 3 centers we already have.

As a local Sonic fan, I was not aware there was low attendance. I look aroudn the arena, and it seems pretty decent. So, using my own judgement, I really don't believe Seattle needs to fill the seats.



> *As for the Sonics PG position, you may very well be right. I do remember hearing something about problems between Watson's playing time with the Sonics but that may have been before Weis was fired. Again, I'll defer to you on this one because I can't find an article supporting this. Personally, I thought your PG situation was fairly strong but that article made me believe you guys were not satisfied.*


*

I'm a Luke supporter, and when I said 'some' want Watson to start, I mean the Sonics board. Come check it out sometime.




Although the Sonics have depth at the 4 and 5 spot, depth does not always translate into quality. Do not get me wrong because I liked Robert Swift alot as a player before he was drafted but all in all, the rest don't appear to be all that impressive (not regarding Sene whose game I'm fimilar with). A guy like Petro could easily find himself as a long term bench warmer since guys like Fransico Elson who I believe are better, have taken and accepted lesser roles. If the Sonics were comfortable enough with their big man situation, they would have never traded for Wilcox or attempted to resign him. Bob Hill confirmed this need when he stated "Big players make a difference and change the game. You've got to have that size. Thinking you're going to win a championship without those big guys is going against City Hall. It's just not going to happen," with the Seattle Post Intelligencer. Although this need is wildly recognized, the Sonics are reluctant to pay the money to secure a high caliber big man. For the most part, Eddy Curry could fulfill that need at an economically reasonable price compared to most centers in today's league. He's making just $8.1 million this year and has about 4 more years left on his contract. By contrast, part time contributors like Erick Dampier and Adonal Foyle make $8.6 million and $8.1 million. Curry changes the game more but still has the ability to improve because of his youth. I believe it would be a win-win for both teams.

Click to expand...

Petro is undoubtedly the most polished player out of the 3, and it only took him training camp to get that good. I see him as more of a PF in the future, but for now, he's a center. I think Swift is our main project, although this is up for debate.

I would like a big name player, but not Curry. He's not going to be a star, and even if he does have the potential, I like Swift and Sene more. I don't want to spend that much on a good, but not great center that sucks at defense. He's not incredibly overpaid, but he doesn't help on defense, the Sonics biggest weakness. And Jerome James sucks.




As for the trade you mentioned, we're already have a deep back-court so have no use for Ridnour despite him being a talented player. Mikki Moore is a guy I'd like to add to the roster however because he gets the job done as a 3rd strong center that can contribute to changing the game.

Click to expand...

Remember when everyone (at least I did) thought IT would get Marcus Williams, because he's a pure PG? This shows that even though there's many guards, NY still wants that pure PG. In this trade, the PG count stays even. Moore is a filler from Seattle's standpoint, but on the Knicks he could actually contribute as a 3rd string center. Cheap contract, final year. So it's a low-risk move.*


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Gotham2krazy said:


> What's so special about Blatche?


Blatche = 2nd round w/ KG potential. Gelebale = potential 8th man. It also hurts that Gelebale was picked right before Blatche. I thought Blatche fell into Seattle's lap, but noooo, Sund gotta **** it up.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Blatche = 2nd round w/ KG potential. Gelebale = potential 8th man. It also hurts that Gelebale was picked right before Blatche. I thought Blatche fell into Seattle's lap, but noooo, Sund gotta **** it up.


KG potential? Explain please.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Haven't you heard of him? Blatche? 6'11 athletic perimeter player. It's on all the draft profiles.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

WTChan said:


> Gelebale isn't going to be a starter. As far as I know, we are just glad we'll have some depth. I don't think what Givony reported was fact- it could very well be, and it is very logical. Personally, I would like to move Lewis (I would also like to rebuild, but that's another story). I would also like to move Wilcox, as I don't think a run-n-gun style can contend, but I know I don't speak for all Sonic fans when I say that. I just don't like this deal. I don't think Curry is going to get any better, and I'd rather take my chances with the 3 centers we already have.
> 
> As a local Sonic fan, I was not aware there was low attendance. I look aroudn the arena, and it seems pretty decent. So, using my own judgement, I really don't believe Seattle needs to fill the seats.
> 
> ...



I don't understand how you plan on building a half court geared squad and not expect to have a low post scorer on the team. Curry without a doubt fills that bill as one of the best options in the league. Does he has his flaws? Yeah but they are greatly exaggerated and I find it hard to believe a 24 year old won't improve a stitch in his game when he has not reached his intelluctual or physical prime. Curry has all the tools to be a big time player in the league but perhaps his biggest problem is not possessing the little things. When I say little things, I mean the knowledge to repost, the ability to pass out of the double team and the use of an already refined hook shot on a more frequent basis. These things can and without a doubt be obtained by Curry since most of the big time center's never had these abilities at 24 either. Although I think Swift could be something of relevance, I don't believe any of them will have the ability to change the game as much as Curry can. I've only seen highlights of Sene but from what I've seen as well as limited minutes in the Under 20 World Championships, I believe he's more than a fit at the 4 spot and would mesh well with Curry because of his abilities to play stiffling defense.

About the attendance, while you attend the games, the statistics these articles are based on, don't lie. I've heard from more than one newspaper that the Sonics fan base isn't as strong as what it use to be.

I don't think anyone assumed we would draft Marcus Williams because he was not projected to fall out of the lottery. Hell, I don't think we even worked him out, so how would Isiah wanted to draft him? Personally, I always support drafting the best player available but considering several teams with needs for a PG (Sixers, Celtics, Suns, Pacers) passed on him, he wasn't the can't miss talent that people like yourself believe. We'd have no need for another PG especially with the system we'll run. Again, adding a talented player like Ridnour for spot minutes would be pointless for us. Mikki on the other hand would be a great fit.

As for running teams not being able to contend, the Lakers won 5 championships as a running team and the Suns and Mavericks are two Western Conference teams that people predict will win titles in the next few years. They without a doubt contend. What the Sonics have is pretty strong and doubt they should tear it down. If you look around the league, most teams are looking to become faster and more versatile anyway. Plain and simple, the league is changing and you guys got the inside curve because you been doing it for a while longer than the rest of us have.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> I don't understand how you plan on building a half court geared squad and not expect to have a low post scorer on the team. Curry without a doubt fills that bill as one of the best options in the league. Does he has his flaws? Yeah but they are greatly exaggerated and I find it hard to believe a 24 year old won't improve a stitch in his game when he has not reached his intelluctual or physical prime. Curry has all the tools to be a big time player in the league but perhaps his biggest problem is not possessing the little things. When I say little things, I mean the knowledge to repost, the ability to pass out of the double team and the use of an already refined hook shot on a more frequent basis. These things can and without a doubt be obtained by Curry since most of the big time center's never had these abilities at 24 either. Although I think Swift could be something of relevance, I don't believe any of them will have the ability to change the game as much as Curry can. I've only seen highlights of Sene but from what I've seen as well as limited minutes in the Under 20 World Championships, I believe he's more than a fit at the 4 spot and would mesh well with Curry because of his abilities to play stiffling defense.


We know how good Curry is. I want to see how good Swift gets. That guy is the 2nd fastest center in the league, behind Amare. I don't like the idea of Sene at the 4 for defense, and Curry at the 5 for offense. We all saw how that worked out in Chicago. I simply don't want a big man that can't play defense.



> About the attendance, while you attend the games, the statistics these articles are based on, don't lie. I've heard from more than one newspaper that the Sonics fan base isn't as strong as what it use to be.


Understandably so, the previous year was the playoff run. Last year was just crap.



> I don't think anyone assumed we would draft Marcus Williams because he was not projected to fall out of the lottery. Hell, I don't think we even worked him out, so how would Isiah wanted to draft him? Personally, I always support drafting the best player available but considering several teams with needs for a PG (Sixers, Celtics, Suns, Pacers) passed on him, he wasn't the can't miss talent that people like yourself believe. We'd have no need for another PG especially with the system we'll run. Again, adding a talented player like Ridnour for spot minutes would be pointless for us. Mikki on the other hand would be a great fit.


Trading a shoot-first PG for a pass-first PG seems logical. Luke would be first PG off the bench.



> As for running teams not being able to contend, the Lakers won 5 championships as a running team and the Suns and Mavericks are two Western Conference teams that people predict will win titles in the next few years. They without a doubt contend. What the Sonics have is pretty strong and doubt they should tear it down. If you look around the league, most teams are looking to become faster and more versatile anyway. Plain and simple, the league is changing and you guys got the inside curve because you been doing it for a while longer than the rest of us have.


Lakers had Kareem. Suns had swarming defense. These teams were more than just running teams. While Nash was on the Mavs, I never thought they had a legitimate chance to contend, with the Lakers and Spurs being the favorites. I'm more of a defensive-minded fan, and I just hate the idea of Ridnour/Allen/Lewis. Every championship team has had a starters who are inside and outside defensive stoppers. All 3 of our centers could be that inside stopper, but we don't have any outside stoppers, that's why I don't like the way the Sonics are going.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

WTChan said:


> We know how good Curry is. I want to see how good Swift gets. That guy is the 2nd fastest center in the league, behind Amare. I don't like the idea of Sene at the 4 for defense, and Curry at the 5 for offense. We all saw how that worked out in Chicago. I simply don't want a big man that can't play defense.
> 
> *Yes, we all saw how well it worked out in Chicago with an offensive big man at the 5 and defensive big man at the 4. It resulted in a team that had missed the playoffs 8 straight years to actually make the playoffs. Personally, I see that formula working very well. Down low, you'd perfer one person to be a solid help defender in order to prevent forays to the basket. The other would be responsible for containing his man one on one. This is something Curry is well within his limits of doing. There are no real scoring options at the 5, so after all what would he have to defend?*
> 
> ...


So what you telling me is that the Sonics can not modify their system to be more of a versatile running team? As for every championship team having "defensive stoppers," the Heat won the title with Posey being the only person known for his defense. Even still, Posey is hardly a player I'd consider to be a "stopper" or capable to make up for poor defenders like Jason Williams and Antawn Walkers or mediocre defenders like Shaq. I think this shows that you could win a title by playing solid defense as a team which stems more from solid communication than individual skill. The Sixers should be a solid defensive teams with legit stoppers like Samuel Dalembert, Andre Igoudala and Allen Iverson. They are in fact one of the worse defensive teams in the league and that is because of poor communication on defense.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

I thought Wade was pretty damn good defensively. I considered him a stopper, at least in that series. But then again, he didn't have to guard a superstar wingman. Mourning might not have had a great series, but he was there to discourage slashers.

Philadelphia might have a good inside and outside stopper, but Iverson is a cherry-picker, and Webber and Korver can't play D. Their frontcourt is similar to the Baby Bulls - one offense and one defense. You must have a player who is good at both. Their team is unbalanced. You can only have one-sided players if he has enough teammates to cover his defensive weaknesses. Nash has Diaw, Bell, Barbosa. Dirk has Howard, Stack, Daniels, etc.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

WTChan said:


> I thought Wade was pretty damn good defensively. I considered him a stopper, at least in that series. But then again, he didn't have to guard a superstar wingman. Mourning might not have had a great series, but he was there to discourage slashers.
> 
> Philadelphia might have a good inside and outside stopper, but Iverson is a cherry-picker, and Webber and Korver can't play D. Their frontcourt is similar to the Baby Bulls - one offense and one defense. You must have a player who is good at both. Their team is unbalanced. You can only have one-sided players if he has enough teammates to cover his defensive weaknesses. Nash has Diaw, Bell, Barbosa. Dirk has Howard, Stack, Daniels, etc.


I think there is a huge difference from being able to play defense and a stopper. When I think stopper, I think of a person good enough defensively to disrupt a player significantly and consistently enough that they hold the opponent to lesser performances. Could Wade player defense? Yes he can harrass his opponent well. Can he go out there and stop a guy on the regular? I don't think so and he has not shown that ability thus far.

As for the rest of your arguement, I really don't understand it. You want the Sonics to do a drastic thing like rebuild because you don't believe there good enough defensively but on the same hand, you believe the Heat won the title because of 2 players efforts on the defensive end of the floor? If that was true, I think that rebuilding would be kind of pointless if you could change the game that dramatically on defense through two players.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

None of the starters on the Heat really suck at defense. JWill is inconsistent, Wade and Posey are above average. Haslem is good, and Shaq, well, he's hard to figure out. Look at Seattle - Ridnour sucks at D, Allen sucks at D, Rashard Lewis sucks at D. That's the entire perimeter. Especially the 2/3 spot, where most explosive players in the league are at. Sure, Wilkins is average, and Geleblae could be good, but they're bench players. Wilcox and Swift get owned in the paint. Swift went from 245 to 260 lbs this year, so we'll see. Petro was inconsistent, but had some moments where he managed to stop star players.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

WTChan said:


> None of the starters on the Heat really suck at defense. JWill is inconsistent, Wade and Posey are above average. Haslem is good, and Shaq, well, he's hard to figure out. Look at Seattle - Ridnour sucks at D, Allen sucks at D, Rashard Lewis sucks at D. That's the entire perimeter. Especially the 2/3 spot, where most explosive players in the league are at. Sure, Wilkins is average, and Geleblae could be good, but they're bench players. Wilcox and Swift get owned in the paint. Swift went from 245 to 260 lbs this year, so we'll see. Petro was inconsistent, but had some moments where he managed to stop star players.


Antonio Walker is one of the worst one on one defenders I know of and he started every playoff game for them this year. Ironically, they played better with him as a starter than him coming off the bench despite these so called defensive problems. As this whole defensive issue, let's just end it because there is no way for us to accurately describe how good a player is defensively unless we watch film. I agree to disagree with this one despite firmly believeing the Heat defensively were strong as a team but not as individuals which is something the Sonics can aim for.

As for you bashing the Sonics roster on defense, if all you really need are marginal to good defenders then why not just trade for them? I mean it's not like a guy like Udonis Haslem or James Posey is unattainable. You still have yet to answer that question and the fact that they didn't secure a starting spot on the Heat consistently tells you that you can build a good enough defensive team through your bench.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Because Rick Sund can't make trades for crap, that's why. Transactions don't happen often in Seattle.

The Heat, as a whole, don't suck at defense. The Sonics, as a whole, suck at defense. No more one-sided players- the 3 best Sonic players are offense only.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Because Rick Sund can't make trades for crap, that's why. Transactions don't happen often in Seattle.
> 
> The Heat, as a whole, don't suck at defense. The Sonics, as a whole, suck at defense. No more one-sided players- the 3 best Sonic players are offense only.


Maybe you should just move to New York and just be an NY fan Chan.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

If I didn't know anyone at all in Seattle, knew some people and relatives in NY, and had a fully furnished house over there, I would love to move and be a Knicks fan. But for now, I'll stay back here.


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