# What makes Darko #2 and Bargnani #1?



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

In early 2003, a lot of people are talking about Darko #1. Now many people are talking about Bargnani #1.

Yao Ming makes Darko #2 and Bargnani #1?

New NBA rule makes Bargnani #1?

Dirk makes Bargnani #1?

This is more about NBA general than NBA draft.


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## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

Um...what did you just say.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

The crappy draft makes Bargnani number one.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Ballscientist said:


> This is more about NBA general than NBA draft.


No it's not. Post in the right forum.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

The 2005 high school class is one of the weakest ever, that's why. The top players are Andrew Bynum, Tyrus Thomas, and Gerald Green. Compare that to the previous two years. 

The 2003 high school class has Lebron, Deng, Bogut, Paul, and Morrison. The 2004 class has Dwight Howard, Livingston, Swift, Telfair, Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Dorrell Wright, Marvin Williams, Aldridge, Gay, and Noah.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

Ballscientist said:


> In early 2003, a lot of people are talking about Darko #1. Now many people are talking about Bargnani #1.
> 
> Yao Ming makes Darko #2 and Bargnani #1?
> 
> ...


[email protected][email protected]?!?!?!#[email protected](*#()&*@_!332u949532!:eek8:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hairy Midget said:


> The crappy draft makes Bargnani number one.


There is nothing crappy about this draft. Its not top heavy, but there is a lot of talent in the middle to late rounds of the draft


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

LeBron made Darko #2.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

rwj333 said:


> The 2004 class has Dwight Howard, Livingston, Swift, Telfair, Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Dorrell Wright, Marvin Williams, Aldridge, Gay, and Noah.


Incredible.

How many of those would go #1 in this year's draft?


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

ppl were tlaking about Darko goin #1 over Lebron?


Really?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Chad Ford just did that to create controversy.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> Incredible.
> 
> How many of those would go #1 in this year's draft?


probably just howard, i dont see the others going #1 even back then, certainly not now that we actually know some of them arent that good.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Hbwoy said:


> There is nothing crappy about this draft. Its not top heavy, but there is a lot of talent in the middle to late rounds of the draft


There's niche talent in the late first round/early second round, but there really aren't any players who you seen and think they'll actually make a real starting roster. So you can get a shooter or a defender, but there really aren't that many great players at the bottom of the draft as with the top of the draft; it's just poor.

For comparison, from 20 on down in the 2004 draft there was Jameer Nelson, Pavel Podkolzine, Victor Khryapa, Sergei Monia, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Kevin Martin, Sasha Vujacic, Beno Udrih, and David Harrison. I see maybe three guys who legitimately suck and the rest are talented. According to this year's mock at nbadraft.net, from 20 on down there is Rudy Fernandez, Shawne Williams, Aaron Gray, Saer Sene, Richard Roby, Quincy Douby, Rajon Rondo, Marcus Vinicius, Kyle Lowry, Josh Boone, and Paul Millsap. If I take out the guys I think will be scrubs, and then take out one guy I like (because one I like will inevitably suck), I get 3 good players out of 11 picks. And the draft isn't getting better if Pittsnogle, Gansey, Novak, or Hasan Adams sneak in because objectively they're not talented either. They have their role, but they're not guys who you'll ever see starting in the NBA.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Bargnani playing against stiffer competition than Darko ever did before entering the draft and hes putting up numbers in the Euroleague akin to what Gasol did prior to entering the NBA for FC Barcelona....

plus the fact that hes a seven-footer that can dribble drive, but can stroke a 3 with such great form....thats whats makes Bargnani a 1...


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## paperclip (Mar 24, 2006)

Hbwoy said:


> There is nothing crappy about this draft. Its not top heavy, but there is a lot of talent in the middle to late rounds of the draft


Top-heavy creates excitement and anticipation over how the top picks will take the NBA by storm. You don't have that so much this year, but I think its still exciting since there's that "box of chocolates, you don't know what you're gonna get" element to the top 5.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

The answer to this question is obvious. Lebron. Thread over. I doubt Bargnani would be listed number 1 over Lebron, Carmelo, Darko and probably not Bosh either.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

JNice said:


> The answer to this question is obvious. Lebron. Thread over. I doubt Bargnani would be listed number 1 over Lebron, Carmelo, Darko and probably not Bosh either.


compared to when all these guys came out i think the order of ranking would be;
lebron
darko
bargnani
carmelo
bosh

by the way did you get that vette yet.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

rwj333 said:


> The 2005 high school class is one of the weakest ever, that's why. The top players are Andrew Bynum, Tyrus Thomas, and Gerald Green.


Tyrus Thomas was from '04 which probably only strengthens your argument.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Brandan Rush and Shawne Williams were part of the '05 draft class. As was Julian Wright, Josh McRoberts, Tyler Hansbrough, Monta Ellis, and Martell Webster.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

The best comparison for Andrea Bargnani is Pau Gasol. Not in terms of style of play, but in terms of international impact before coming to the NBA. Darko Milicic barely played before he came to the NBA. He wasn't a superstar or even a roleplayer. Same with Skita. Pau Gasol was actually a good player in his last year upon entering the draft (11 and 7) and Bargnani is the best international player (outside of Yao) to come into the NBA since Pau Gasol.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Premier said:


> Chad Ford just did that to create controversy.


Chad Ford would take Darko over Lebron today. Belieeeeeve that. That dude is craaaazy.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> The best comparison for Andrea Bargnani is Pau Gasol. Not in terms of style of play, but in terms of international impact before coming to the NBA. Darko Milicic barely played before he came to the NBA. He wasn't a superstar or even a roleplayer. Same with Skita. Pau Gasol was actually a good player in his last year upon entering the draft (11 and 7) and Bargnani is the best international player (outside of Yao) to come into the NBA since Pau Gasol.



darko played, it was just in a lower league(compared to the italian league), his problem was he was so young,like 17 when he declared. i think he's still a good player if he can dedicate himself to being the best he can be. i agree with your comment about andrea vs. gasol but i dont think that is necessarily your deciding factor in taking the guy. you can have good numbers in a league over there and not be an nba caliber player and vice versa.


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## babcock_sux (May 27, 2006)

not sure what you meant, but i agree....what made Darko #2 over the talent from #3-#5?


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> The best comparison for Andrea Bargnani is Pau Gasol. Not in terms of style of play, but in terms of international impact before coming to the NBA. Darko Milicic barely played before he came to the NBA. He wasn't a superstar or even a roleplayer. Same with Skita. Pau Gasol was actually a good player in his last year upon entering the draft (11 and 7) and Bargnani is the best international player (outside of Yao) to come into the NBA since Pau Gasol.


True. Although Pau Gasol was way better than Bargnani at age 21.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

bender said:


> True. Although Pau Gasol was way better than Bargnani at age 21.



not sure about that, they're numbers are very similar.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

rainman said:


> compared to when all these guys came out i think the order of ranking would be;
> lebron
> darko
> bargnani
> ...



Nah .. i've dropped the Vette idea for now. Maybe in a couple years.

As for your list, I am guessing Melo would go before Bargnani. Melo was just coming off winning an NCAA championship as a freshman and Bargnani doesn't seem to really have that much hype outside it being a relatively non-top-heavy draft.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

rainman said:


> compared to when all these guys came out i think the order of ranking would be;
> lebron
> darko
> bargnani
> ...


I think we can debate whether or not Bosh was thought of higher than Bargnani, but you can't debate Melo. Melo was way ahead of Bargnani when he came out and would easily go #1 this year to any team. Melo was definitely a legit #1 pick kind of prospect whereas Bargnani just isn't. Andrea in an average draft looks like the #3 pick, but this year he's a potential #1 and the best prospect in some of our eyes.


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

rainman said:


> not sure about that, they're numbers are very similar.


No. I think Gasol had about 17/8 in the Euroleague 2001.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

bender said:


> No. I think Gasol had about 17/8 in the Euroleague 2001.


Nope!

Gasol's numbers while playing for FC Barcelona was similar to those posted by Bargnani this year for Bennetton...(these numbers are taken from their 2nd years on their Euro teams....one should also take note of their similar improvement from their 1st to 2nd years...)

Gasol: http://nbadraft.net/profiles/paugasol.htm
Bargnani: http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BWZ
Heres Tskita's profile....notice that his experience and numbers dont hold up to the other 2, added because of their similar situations coming into the draft (ie/ tall, skilled Euros coming out of the Euroleague): http://nbadraft.net/profiles/nickoloztskitishvili.htm

Gasol/Bargnani

FG%: .580/ .558
3PT%: 32.7/43.3
FT%: 56.0/71.1
REB: 3.8/4.1
PPG: 11.0/11.5

Bargnani is a legit #1 pick. He is also the ONLY legit #1 pick. When you throw out bias based on lack of information, it's really as easy as picking Lebron.


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

Another thing people shouldn't compere stats from europe directly... I mean Gasol avaraged around 11 points in europe and 19 in hes first nba season... Also I belive Bargnani will be good but I am not so sure weather he could put up Gasol's rookie stats since he is more premiere player... actually that doesn't matter Pau just has/had insane amount of moves in post and got starting job as pf.


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

The Mad Viking said:


> Nope!
> 
> Gasol's numbers while playing for FC Barcelona was similar to those posted by Bargnani this year for Bennetton...(these numbers are taken from their 2nd years on their Euro teams....one should also take note of their similar improvement from their 1st to 2nd years...)
> 
> ...


Take a closer look!

Gasol in Euroleague 2000/01 (age 20/21)

18.5 ppg - .693 FG% - .738 FT% - 6.0 rpg

Bargnani in Euroleague 05/06 (age 20/21)

10.9 ppg - .558 FG% - .711 FT% - 4.1

Bargnani's stats are fairly impressiv for his age, but he isn't nearly as good or dominant as Gasol was in 2001.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

bender said:


> Take a closer look!
> 
> Gasol in Euroleague 2000/01 (age 20/21)
> 
> ...



bargs has lower numbers, coz he plays on an already good team. he may get fewer touches. and i think the reason why his fg% is lower, is because he plays more around der perimeter.


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

BenDengGo said:
 

> bargs has lower numbers, coz he plays on an already good team.


What do you think Barcelona is?

BTW: Is that English you're talking?


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

bender said:


> Take a closer look!
> 
> Gasol in Euroleague 2000/01 (age 20/21)
> 
> 18.5 ppg - .693 FG% - .738 FT% - 6.0 rpg


Just 6 games played against poor teams (London, Skyliners, Verona: c'mon!)... it doesn't explain much!


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

Toxicity said:


> Just 6 games played against poor teams (London, Skyliners, Verona: c'mon!)... it doesn't explain much!


24/10 vs. PAOK. Doesn't explain much?


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

bender said:


> 24/10 vs. PAOK. Doesn't explain much?


Not much, in the end it's just a game. And Paok's big man (Giannoulis) finished with 19+12+3...


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Toxicity said:


> Not much, in the end it's just a game. And Paok's big man (Giannoulis) finished with 19+12+3...


Owned :biggrin: (bender)

Lol ... that was the first year of the "new" Euroleague, so there were various poor teams in the tournament via wildcard (such like London, Frankfurt etc).

Bargnani would have destroyed these teams in the first round, I'm pretty sure ...


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

Toxicity said:


> Not much, in the end it's just a game.


Yeah. Like any other. What are we taking about, anyway?



italianBBlover said:


> Owned :biggrin: (bender)


Oh, right. Because of what? Me not buying the hype around a European who hasn't proven anything yet, who happens to be one of your fellow countrymen? Great. :raised_ey


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

bender said:


> Oh, right. Because of what? Me not buying the hype around a European who hasn't proven anything yet, who happens to be one of your fellow countrymen? Great. :raised_ey


You do know this is a draft right? Who _has_ proven anything? It's a draft to go _into_ the NBA, meaning none of these guys are proven. As it is, Benetton Treviso would wipe the floor with teams like Florida, UCLA, LSU and so on. The EuroLeague is the best league in the world outside of the NBA. Bargnani has been a huge contributor on his team, and his curve for improvement has been a good deal more steep than other prospects.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> You do know this is a draft right? Who _has_ proven anything? It's a draft to go _into_ the NBA, meaning none of these guys are proven. As it is, Benetton Treviso would wipe the floor with teams like Florida, UCLA, LSU and so on. The EuroLeague is the best league in the world outside of the NBA. Bargnani has been a huge contributor on his team, and his curve for improvement has been a good deal more steep than other prospects.


 :rotf: No kidding. People forget that. 

Equally funny is your statement that "Euroleague is the best league....outside the NBA. Treviso would wipe the floor with teams like FL, UCLA

heck of an endorsement for a pro league. :biggrin:


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> You do know this is a draft right? Who _has_ proven anything? It's a draft to go _into_ the NBA, meaning none of these guys are proven.


Okay, I have to say it in another way.

All I originally intended to say was that Bargnani isn't as good as Gasol was at the same age. I saw Gasol, and I saw Bargnani, and Bargnani isn't there yet. Since some Italian on this board won't believe this, we got an argument running. But I don't care anymore.


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## ivo_krka (Jan 29, 2004)

bender said:


> Okay, I have to say it in another way.
> 
> All I originally intended to say was that Bargnani isn't as good as Gasol was at the same age. I saw Gasol, and I saw Bargnani, and Bargnani isn't there yet. Since some Italian on this board won't believe this, we got an argument running. But I don't care anymore.



Maybe Pau was a bit better than Bargnani is now, but Bargnani has more upside while Gasol is somewhat limited. At least limited to the level to become a superstar.


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