# Walker and Delk for LaFrentz and 1st Rounder



## KA (Apr 21, 2003)

The Dallas Morning News is reporting the Mavs are sending LaFrentz and a first-round pick to Celtics for Walker and Delk.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

ESPN radio reported this deal: Mills/Welsch/LaFrentz & Next year's first round pick for Walker/Delk.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Thats crazy, why would the Mavs want Walker, their roster is full as it is. What will their starting lineup be?
C: Nowitzki
PF: A.Walker
SF: Jamison
SG: Finley
PG: Nash

Wow that is one deadly outside shooting team, live by the three die by the three.


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## lochdoun (Jun 11, 2003)

i hate this trade. a 25 point per game player for a 10 point per game player. Crazy...


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

If this is a done deal, Ainge made a serious mistake. I just don't like LaFrentz-- he isn't tough enough to be an NBA post player.
The key to the deal for the Celtics is Welsch. Mills is just fodder, and the draft pick will be in the 20's, so it's no big deal.

This deal is a tacit admission that Banks isn't working out, and they need someone who can play the point. So what do the Celtics do at power forward?

Dallas, on the other hand, may now have the most potent scoring lineup in the league, and the Dallas fans will soon discover that Antoine is a pretty good defender, too.

Delk and Willams for Welsch and fodder would make sense to me. The deal as reported makes none whatsoever.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

I don't believe that the deal was done on the behalf of banks, if this was true why would they trade Delk also? Maybe they want their young players to develop? Who knows, but financially and talent wise Mavericks made a good trade.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Ainge could've better value for Antoine Walker that, he didn't even get an elite player back in the deal.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> Ainge could've better value for Antoine Walker that, he didn't even get an elite player back in the deal.


Yes, indeed. But I guess the rumors that Ainge was intent on dumping Walker were true. I wonder how O'Brien and Paul Pierce feel about this deal? I wonder how Auerbach feels?

I hope Ainge considered the impact on team chemistry. If the C's fall apart, Ainge will no doubt join Chris Wallace, M.L. Carr and Rick Pitino in the pantheon of idiot Celtic general managers.

Well, I am very high on Brandon Hunter. At least now he may get a chance to play lol.


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

As much as Boston fans will probably hate this trade due to the "name" player involved, I think it will help both teams. LaFrentz can have much more of an impact on an East team and he should put up great numbers. I don't know if you guys can win a title with him, but you sure as heck weren't gonna win one with Walker.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*damn*

this is HUGE...



I think although I dislike Antoine's game, he def could have given us a better player in return

maybe this was to clear cap space to sign someone in the off-season??


peace


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## lanigan34 (Dec 27, 2002)

no Lafretz has a 5 yr $68 Mill contract the C's are stuck with. Walker is a free agent either at the end of this year or next year. This doesnt look to be a good move for the C's unless they have another trade planned.


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## The_Truth_34_Sky_8 (May 27, 2003)

Damn , I hate this deal and it aint gunna work for Celtics which that makes Paul Pierce work more harder to carry the ball for the team. Now guys , Who would u think take Walker's place ? Danny Angie made a terrbile deal and it will not work for celtics. Why do we need more power forward and center since we got Baker , Hunter , Battie , Blount and perkins. wtf is he thinking in his head?
Maybe He could ve deal walker for Rasheed Wallace.


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

Terrible move by the Celtics IMO. :no:


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## Joker (Aug 7, 2002)

bad trade for both i think.

dallas needed a banger, not a teddy bear.
and boston loses their best scorer (alongside pierce) to ??? Raef?? 

there's gotta be a kicker in that trade or soemthing else following it.... it just makes no sense.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

Mills contract expires this year.. Ainge must like raef. I was not surprised walker was traded but dont know if i like the deal..


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Ainge SUCKS!*

Well Danny Ainge has gone from being my childhood hero (as a player) to a GOAT, I hate him now. This is one of the ABSOLUTE WORST trades I've ever heard of. Get rid of an all-star in Antoine who was slimmed down and ready to play and a 6th man who can put up MAJOR points like Delk....for a mediocre at best Center in Lafrentz, a prospect who's shown nothing so far in Welsch, a draft pick that will be about 28 or 29 in the draft and yeild nothing, and don't even get me going on Mills I don't even know what position he plays because he's such an end of the bench rider! WTF!!!!!:upset: 
We are NOT going to even be a playoff team now, it's back to the lottery. I also GUARANTEE that Paul Peirce will NOT extend a contract with us now and I don't blame him one bit, who wants to play for a bunch of losers!!!:sour:


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## bdance (Dec 24, 2002)

I agree that it's not a great deal for either team. But at least we get rid of Walker, a ball hog with a huge ego and not much in the way of class. Why the Mavs - legit contenders - would risk their team chemistry on this guy is a mystery. They were already loaded offensively, and that's the only positive thing Walker brings.

Who knows what Pierce is thinking, but I bet he's happy to see a former KU teammate on board.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

This has got to be one of the dumbest trades ever. Dallas wins on every front. They gave up practically nothing for an All-Star and a veteran guard. Mills hardly played for Golden State last year. Welsch is a second year player who has a horrible shooting percentage. LaFrentz has a huge contract and is on the decline. What on earth is Ainge thinking? OB will be pissed. Pierce will be pissed. Probably every Celtic will be pissed.  I am now rooting for the Mavericks to win a championship. 

I really don't see any silver lining on this unless the full details were not disclosed and Nowitzki has been thrown into the deal. Or else those guys are going to be packaged for another trade. I still don't see how we could get anyone of Walker's caliber. 

I forget who said it, but someone on here guaranteed Walker would be traded once Ainge took over. My props to you. I was praying you were wrong.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bdance</b>!
> I agree that it's not a great deal for either team. But at least we get rid of Walker, a ball hog with a huge ego and not much in the way of class. Why the Mavs - legit contenders - would risk their team chemistry on this guy is a mystery. They were already loaded offensively, and that's the only positive thing Walker brings.


Getting rid of an All-Star (voted on by the coaches) just for the sake of getting rid of him is never good. You have to get something in return, and we got nothing. LaFrentz doesn't bring the stats or the leadership. I am hoping that Ainge is not finished yet. He better not trade Kedrick, though.


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## Crippin (Oct 7, 2003)

Seriously why would the Mavs want ANOTHER scorer?? They just picked up 2 more and i can see chemistry troubles if they start losing...with their roster already, how many shots are left for Walker or Delk to take???

I can only understand this trade if the Mavs were planning on moving one of their Big 3, which would be just downright stupid...

This paves the way for another East team to take their spot in the playoffs...Toronto baby!


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I'm not seeing why this trade was made...

You guys got absolutely nothing out of this deal.


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## bdance (Dec 24, 2002)

The one thing we can agree on is that Ainge was getting rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him. I'm not sure Walker's trade value was that great to begin with, and the Celtics with or without him are still very far from being a legitimate contender, so it's not bothering me all that much. Extracting a couple more draft picks down the road might have been the way to go.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bdance</b>!
> The one thing we can agree on is that Ainge was getting rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him. I'm not sure Walker's trade value was that great to begin with, and the Celtics with or without him are still very far from being a legitimate contender, so it's not bothering me all that much. Extracting a couple more draft picks down the road might have been the way to go.


They needed to get something in return. Why didn't Ainge hang on to Walker until his stock went up? Walker was just embarassed in the playoffs, so his value was low. But he worked hard to get into shape and get ready for the running game. Why not wait until Walker showed what he could do on the court and then trade him for someone good? Personally, I didn't want Walker to be traded at all, but if it was going to happen, they should've gotten at least an above average player. LaFrentz used to be above average, but I'm not so sure now. Now those Portland trade scenarios look a lot better.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

I don't know why people don't get this trade for the mavs, I'm sure all the celts fans who saw Walker setup pierce quite a few times over the last couple of season know what the deal is.

Anyone else surprised that the deal was made? Even if Raef goes back to his 14 8 and 3 form that he was with nuggets, where is your scoring going to come from? More importantly who is going to set pierce up on offense?


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## pavlo11 (Jul 8, 2003)

That is a very bad trade for Boston. They get no value for Walker........Is Ainge thinking Lafrentz will be a better player in the centerless east than he was in the west?


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## bdance (Dec 24, 2002)

Walker has firmly established what he does well and what he doesn't, so I don't see how one sub-par playoff performance diminished his trade value. It's the things he doesn't do well, and especially his persona, that diminish it.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> I don't know why people don't get this trade for the mavs, I'm sure all the celts fans who saw Walker setup pierce quite a few times over the last couple of season know what the deal is.
> 
> Anyone else surprised that the deal was made? Even if Raef goes back to his 14 8 and 3 form that he was with nuggets, where is your scoring going to come from? More importantly who is going to set pierce up on offense?


One thing to remember is that LaFrentz started off badly that year he got 15 8 and 3 with the Nuggets but after Issel (the worst coach I have ever seen...) was fired was when Raef went off and starting getting something like 20 points and 10 rebounds pretty damn consistently. So IMO he could get 18+ PPG with enough shots (say 14-15 or so) and a good coach which I am sure O'Brian is.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

Dirk, Nash, Fin and Antawn start for certain. Danny Fortson gets first crack as the starting center, with Shawn Bradley (the only real center on the roster) almost certain to get a shot later. *Walker provides offense off the bench (but not at the 5)*, Travis Best backs up Nash, and Delk can play the 1 and the 2. 


DB.com says Walker will come off the bench


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## alessio14 (Oct 20, 2003)

Hi guyz, i'm an Italian boys, Celtics supporter...

First of all, sorry for my bad english...

The trade is absurd!!!

I hate Walker, but Lafrentz is centainly worst!


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*My two cents*

I am truly saddened to see Antoine go. He looks great, and he even got the Tommy award the other night. It is clear, though, that despite his great conditioning, his style hasn't changed.

I agree with Charlotte, this is not an admission of anything on Marcus Banks. But they like what Mike James is doing, too.

A friend of mine who knows some major Celtics execs recently spoke with them regarding Antoine. Yes, they had been shopping him, they said, but were alarmed at how low of value they had been offered. 

As for Dallas, Don Nelson's soft-*** fantasy team grows. I'm not sure he's happy about this either. Antoine comes off the bench, but could be a huge impact guy like Van Exel in the playoffs. The reality, though, is we get something for nothing, because Antoine was leaving at the end of the season anyway. Vin Baker might be our PF now, or LaFrentz.

Our new lineup:

C LaFrentz
PF Baker
SF Kedrick Brown/Eric Williams/Jumaine Jones
SG Pierce
PG Mike James/Marcus Banks

One thing's for sure: we MUST run now, and we need big things from Kedrick Brown and the PGs. Jumaine had better get healthy quick.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

I, too, don't really understand the logic of this trade for Boston. I don't see how they put themselves in a better position at all.

I do expect to see a much better LaFrentz--in the Eastern Conference, playing more minutes at his natural PF position, and with more balls being thrown his way. But Raef and Battie will not be a particularly imposing duo in the paint. I suspect that Baker and Perkins will be given every conceivable opportunity to earn playing time.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Bulls Trade*

The Chicago trade was much better. Damn, I hate motorcycles.

Let's see how this Welch works out. I saw him in Summer Pro League last year and was unimpressed.


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## cafeteriabananas (May 25, 2003)

> C LaFrentz
> PF Baker
> SF Kedrick Brown/Eric Williams/Jumaine Jones
> SG Pierce
> ...


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Again, the key to the trade is Welsch. This may be a situation in which two mistakes (trading for Baker and drafting Banks) are then compounded by making another (trading Walker). We saw Pitino do the same thing on several occasions.

This deal turns the Celtics into a slightly better version of the Orlando Magic. Like Orlando, they are no longer a lock to make the playoffs. LaFrenz is an improvement over Battie, but not that much of an improvement. 

This move also means that no matter how the numbers get crunched, the Celtics will not have to pay luxury tax in 2004, since both Eric Williams and Mills come off the books at the end of next year to the tune of over 12 million in the aggregate.

As for the Mavs, they become instantly as good as-- and maybe better than--the Spurs, Lakers and Wolves. Walker is going to be a great fit in Dallas because he will make Nowitski, Finley and Jameson better with his passing skills.

Prediction: when Dallas comes into the Fleet Center this year, they will win by something like 150-75, and Toine will have a triple double.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

I kind of like this deal for the Celts. For me it depends on how good Welsch becomes. LaFrenz will be one of the best centers in the east and Mills saves the money. And a first rounder all for Antoine. To me, it seems like Boston may ned of getting the better of this deal. I dont think this year, but iimo in a couple years looking back, Boston improves int he long run.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*I CAN NOT BELIEVE WALKER WAS TRADED!*

I saw this story and thought that someone had put together one of those realistic looking fake newspaper articles.

This is a huge trade. Ainge is already setting himself up to be either a goat or a hero.

I see him doing this for 2 reasons:
1. He wants to shake things up. Going into this season with Toine and Paul everyone believes that the C's will be a playoff team but will probably not go past the second round. Now they are not a lock to even make the playoffs. But then again maybe they will be better. We have rid ourselves of one of the worst shooters in the NBA last year. Raef is not an all star but he is solid, he plays down low, he is one of Paul's boys, and he will not be jacking up threes.

2. Walker has alot of power in Boston. Several team mates love Walker. He has become the vocal leader. O'Brien loves him. This move pulls a great deal of power to Ainge. He shows that he is not afraid to move a star. He shows who is in charge.

My head is spinning. I am in a state of shock.

Wow!


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Here is a nice little analysis of the trade:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/basketball/nba/10/20/burns.analysis/


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jericho</b>!
> I, too, don't really understand the logic of this trade for Boston. I don't see how they put themselves in a better position at all.


Cheer up, Boston fans:

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=687444#post687444


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## BleedGreen (Jun 24, 2002)

I just saw this on the bottom of the screen on ESPN News, what the **** is Ainge thinking? I cant beleive this. Walker goes though all that work to get in shape to have a good season with the C's and they trade him, for next to nothing. The pick is gonna be horrible, Mills is just a fodder, Welsch isnt much yet but he could turn out good, and Raef Lafrentz doesnt impress me at all. This trade is bull****.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Lets see, the reasons that people have used to justify this disgusting deal for the Celtics: Antoine is a no-class bum and a ball hog, Welsch was brought in to help take the PG pressure of the unproven Banks, they needed a post presence, it saves us from Walker's max contract.

First off, I've said this before, to say that Antoine is a no-class bum and a bad teammate is idiotic. Doesn't make those who said it an idiot. We all have our idiot moments. Anyway, Antoine is one of the true team leaders in this sport. Leadership in franchise history went from Russell to Cowens to Bird and it was supposed to be Lewis in the 90s and Antoine in this decade. Lewis unfortunately died and now Antoine was dealt in this stupid deal. 

This trade HURTS our PG situation. By dealing Antoine and Delk, we've given up arguably our best and second best point guards. Depending on how much you like James, Walker and Delk are the second and third best PGs this team had. Welsch is only slightly more proven than Banks is. Welsch is a guy who got a grand 6.3 minutes per game in Golden State and managed the astounding figures of 1.6 ppg and .7 apg. As I type, I am salvating about how much the addition of Welsch really sures up the rotation at PG </sarcasm>. Instead of a promising rookie who will probably be crap this season, a slightly proven Mike James and two guys in Walker and Delk who you know what they can do when playing the point, we go to essentially two rookies and Mike James.

LaFrentz is hardly a post presence at all. He's approaching Keith Van Horn on the soft scale. He may be a better shooter, percentage wise, but he's incapable of creating his own shot like Antoine is. He's not going to do anything to take the pressure off of Pierce at all like Antoine could. Speaking of post presence, remember that Indiana series where Antoine played in the post and suddenly Tony Delk and Walter McCarty are double digit scorers and the Celtics with their two guys and off-casts defeated the highly favored Pacers who probably were the deepest, most tallented team in the East. That wasn't all Isiah Thomas's inability to coach.

This deal saves us money just like that Vin Baker deal did. It puts us further away from the luxury tax, but over the remainder of LaFrentz's contract, we're paying over $10 million more and that's if LaFrentz declines his player option worth over $24.5 million.

Why would this deal be considered good for the Celtics by anyone? There is no explicable reason for this to have happened. LaFrentz may be the fourth best center in the east now (Zydrunas, Curry, Magloire), but in my opinion, if Walker was told to play in the post, he'd be the top PF in the east. Also, Battie is no worse than the seventh best center in the east, which quite frankly isn't bad. 

There are only two ways this deal can possibly justify itself. The first is that Baker is back to being the 20-10 all-star that he was in Milwaukee and LaFrentz is the 15-7-3 guy that we was in his last days in Denver. The second is that Ainge got Mills' expiring contract to combine with Williams' expiring deal and those two will be moved to Atlanta for Abdur-Rahim. Anything short of that, and I'd rather have Wallace as our GM.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

So now the Celtics have Raef, Pierce and Bakers contract on. This was a move in part to save money as Mills contract comes off this year.

-Petey


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

What's the C's without antoine?? I hate this trade. Antoine, with the help of Pierce, saved this franchise!! This is one of the worst teams in the league, and it was Antoine who made them respectable. Sure, they're not good enough to win a championship, but at least they're good enough to compete, been to the conference finals and all. With a couple more peices, they were ready to become an elite team in the East, and now they traded him.. WHERE'S THE LOYALTY??

Antoine doesn't get any respect. Ppl blame him for being a ball hog, but who's he suppose to pass to?? You want to see the ball in the hands of Battie or Baker instead??? He's just helping this team win. And part of him jacking up 3's is not even his fault. He's just listening to the coach. HORRIBLE TRADE!! They've just managed to get themselves back in the lottery. I feel sorry for Pierce. Even McGrady has Howard and Gooden to work with...


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

You all know I'm as big a Toine fan as the guy next to me, *BUT GET OVER IT*. He was traded so? So was Jason Kidd, what did he do? He lead his team to the Finals two years in a row. Its a buisness. We got screwed but life must go on, we got some nice prospects to look for. Our number one (overall) pick will be quiet usefull, and Dallas' should get us a good role player.



To mrsister....you are right....

Once upon a time there was this poster, who hated the hiring of Danny Ainge, she was a very good poster too, we liked her, but she was always downplaying Ainge saying he'll trade Antoine, he'll trade Antoine, most of us told her to cut the crap already, she just told us "ok, but I hope I'm wrong", later she gotten a job close to the Celtic organization and took off. 

Even if "thereisnointeam" read this, I still wanna say this:
I'm very sorry I ignored all your warning signs. You even told us you would love to be wrong and would never like to say "I told you so", but guess what you were right, and yes You "told us so".

The Second Rick Pitino Era Has Begun.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Again, the key to the trade is Welsch. This may be a situation in which two mistakes (trading for Baker and drafting Banks) are then compounded by making another (trading Walker). We saw Pitino do the same thing on several occasions.
> 
> This deal turns the Celtics into a slightly better version of the Orlando Magic. Like Orlando, they are no longer a lock to make the playoffs. LaFrenz is an improvement over Battie, but not that much of an improvement.
> ...


I too thought of Orlando when I read about this trade. But I actually think this turns Boston into an inferior version of the Magic. Boston may have a bit more potential at the PG position, but both teams are extremely uncertain at that spot. And I'd trade any combination of Battie, La Frentz and Baker for Howard and Gooden in a heartbeat.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jericho</b>!
> 
> 
> And I'd trade any combination of Battie, La Frentz and Baker for Howard and Gooden in a heartbeat.


I wouldn't. Howard is a perennial loser and Gooden is a headcase.

The point is that they are both dog and pony shows with only one pony.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

*Funny*

That would be me.
All I got was grief when I called this 5 MONTHS AGO.
You people would not listen.
By the way Pierce is fine with this deal. Ainge talked to him before he made the trade. All Pierce could think was now he gets the ball more.




> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> I forget who said it, but someone on here guaranteed Walker would be traded once Ainge took over. My props to you. I was praying you were wrong.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

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Author Message 
ppthetruth
Ballboy



Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 69
Location: Brooklyn
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 8:42 pm Post subject: Chad Ford chat...new info(?)... 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chad Ford: Boston: They didn't want to pay Antoine the money he was looking for in an extension. So they tried to get the best deal they could for him. The team likes LaFrentz and thinks he could put up 15 and 8 like he did in Denver in the East. They also believe Vin Baker is ready to begin starting at power forward this year. Welsh is a nice bonus. Mills saves them $6.6 million next year. The future first rounder, I'm told, will be a pick Dallas acquired from another team. 

Chad Ford: Dallas: Same thing that happened with Antawn Jamison. When someone offers you a sweetheart deal, you take it, no questions asked. They don't need Antoine, but they got him very cheaply. If he doesn't fit, either 'Toine or 'Twan will be great trade bait. 

joe (los angeles): Honestly, Dallas has to be thinking about trading one of their scorers, right? They can't possibly all exist together. 

Chad Ford: Maybe. It's hard to believe that all of those players can co-exist. If they do, the Mavs will be scoring 140 a night. The problem will be stopping the other team from scoring 150. I think Nellie's always been a free thinker. Why do you really need a center? There are only two -- Shaq and Yao Ming -- really worth worrying about. With that said, the Mavs are in a pretty good position to make a trade. I can't believe the Celtics couldn't get more for 'Toine. He's in the best shape of his career. 

Chris (Boston): And I'm sorry Chad but if you believe Vin Baker is ready to step into a prominent role, you obviously didn't follow his collapse last year close enough. Now Vin and Raef can make big money and provide nothing substantial 

Chad Ford: That's the other side of things Chris. And a very realistic option. I was saying that the Celtics believe that Vin is ready. Personally, I'd have some serious reservations. I think the Celtics got much weaker offensively. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to move Tony Battie for a legit point guard.


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

I started supporting the celtics just as the Larry Bird Era came to an end. I thought the Celtics had finally made it out of the lottery, but this trade makes it quite possible that we'll be back there :sigh:

Still, when the last draft went down, I thought Ainge had lost his mind until the trade was announced, so lets cross our fingers that there is something in the works.

no matter what happens, this season will be interesting!


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

I dislike this deal more from the Mav's end then the Celts as this one is a genuine headscratcher all around IMO. I live in the Bay Area most of the year, and have been privy to Jiri Welsch's year + in the league. I read a few of you saying he didn't do much last season, which is true, but he suffered a broken bone in his shooting hand last November. Put that on top of being both a rookie and a foreiner, and it's not surprising he struggled. The buzz on him is that while he's not an outstanding athlete, he is supposively a very good outside shooter and has some playmaking skills. He's supposively been a diligent worker with the Warrior's trainers, putting on 15 good pounds since he was drafted. I've barely seen him take the court, but all time NBA great Rick Barry worked with him and called him an excellent shooter with a head for the game. There is hope...

BTW, this deal may make PP the favorite for the scoring title.

STOMP


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## WaltaaMcCarty (Oct 21, 2003)

*Hey*

Hey, im a new poster here and a BIG C's fan. Anyways, i like the trade personally. Antoine, no matter what he did this offseason is still WAY overrated, and i think with Pierce still here, and 2 solid shot blockers in Battie and LaFrentz we have a presence down low that we never had before. Also, the PG position is shaky, but i think Banks and James will fight it out and in the process get better themselves. Delk wasnt that great anyways i didnt think. Another thought : LaFrentz is way underrated. The guy hated being in dallas because with his skills they treated him like **** in terms of minutes. I predict :

At the end of the season -

C Battie 7 ppg, 7 rpg
-Baker 6 ppg, 4 rpg
PF LaFrentz 14 ppg, 7 rpg
-McCarty 8 ppg
SF Williams 10 ppg
-Brown 4 ppg
-Jones 4 ppg
SG Pierce 29 ppg 
PG James 8 ppg, 5 asspg
-Banks 5 ppg, 3 asspg

Celtics - 45-37 2nd in Atlantic
95 ppg


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Hey*



> Originally posted by <b>WaltaaMcCarty</b>!
> 
> -McCarty 8 ppg


Walters average for next season is -8 ppg, without Toine, McCarty is just a bum on the end of the bench.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ben</b>!
> Terrible move by the Celtics IMO. :no:


 :yes: :yes:


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

Is there another strike "Fire Ainge" Strike!??
Terrible trade for the Celtics......i am wondering wether this trade could have happen:
Walker and Delf for Lafrenz and VanExel

Would have been better for the C's!

THEY GOT Lafrenz!?WTF??

But they di get Mills expiring contract...so maybe..just maybe they are planning on getting a good F/A...
R.Wallace,Ratliff,And rahim...and so on...

Good Luck Celtics!
You are still one of my favorite teams..!..


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## WaltaaMcCarty (Oct 21, 2003)

*yeaaaaaaa*

Walter McCarty is going to do worse just becaus Walker is gone? riiiggggghhttttttttttttt...[strike]your a real idiot aquatious.[/strike] The trade doesnt mean anything for McCarty except more playing time, which will lead to more points...

First off, Aqua is not an idiot, he's one of the best posters on this board. Secondly, we don't insult. ---agoo


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## JBone4eva (Oct 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Hey*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> Walters average for next season is -8 ppg, without Toine, McCarty is just a bum on the end of the bench.


Walta has some game.. he has a decent post up game, and has a wet 12-16 foot jumper.. plus once his knee heals up he can return to bein one of the first up the court on the break in four different positions.. Walta can average more than 8 if he's used correctly..


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: yeaaaaaaa*



> Originally posted by <b>WaltaaMcCarty</b>!
> Walter McCarty is going to do worse just becaus Walker is gone? riiiggggghhttttttttttttt...[strike]your a real idiot aquatious.[/strike] The trade doesnt mean anything for McCarty except more playing time, which will lead to more points...
> 
> First off, Aqua is not an idiot, he's one of the best posters on this board. Secondly, we don't insult. ---agoo



Yes you are right, Walter McCarty is the next MJ. Yeah baby. LOL, the guy averaged double digits because he was set up by Walker in the Indy series.


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## bballer27 (Aug 21, 2003)

boston got ripped off.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*If memory serves me right....*

Waltah was set up by a guy wearing jersey number 34 in that series. But oh well, we'll all remember Antoine as we wished him to be ideally. The fact is that superstars don't win championships, TEAMS win championships, and we didn't have one last year. The Baker trade was awful, but this one is just giving us a different look. I would imagine Pierce is OK with this, because he and LaFrentz were buddies in college and these two guys might be a better fit. When Walker was shooting 38 percent, what was Pierce thinking? Not positive thoughts, I assure you.

As for Antoine, he was a leader--on the court. But he quit on Rick Pitino, and this from David Aldridge on his first meeting with Ainge: "Danny Ainge's first meeting over the summer with 'Toine was a disaster, with Ainge telling Walker he didn't think much of his game and Walker telling associates he was definitely out of Beantown at year's end"

So Walker was gone anyway at the end of the season, probably after a first round exit, if we even made the playoffs. Maybe Ainge bears some responsibility, but better the Celtics get something in return than let him walk at season's end

.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MiamiHeat03</b>!
> But they di get Mills expiring contract...so maybe..just maybe they are planning on getting a good F/A...
> R.Wallace,Ratliff,And rahim...and so on...


They don't have enough cap space, but maybe they are looking for someone that wants cap space, interesting... won't be so bad then.

-Petey


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lochdoun</b>!
> i hate this trade. a 25 point per game player for a 10 point per game player. Crazy...


Since when has Antoine ever been a 25 ppg scorer. Never. He also shoots 36-38% and takes a lot threes as a second scorer. Lafrentz was the 5th option on a Dallas team where Nowitzki, Nash, Finley and NVE got all the shots first. 



> Originally posted by <b>bdance</b>!
> Walker has firmly established what he does well and what he doesn't, so I don't see how one sub-par playoff performance diminished his trade value. It's the things he doesn't do well, and especially his persona, that diminish it.


I think me and you are on the same page with Walker. I see it as a good thing that the Celtics are getting rid of Walker. They want to run and he doesn't want to, as much as he says he does, he dogs it a lot. The funny thing is he gets traded to another running team.



> Originally posted by <b>Epadfield</b>!
> Dirk, Nash, Fin and Antawn start for certain. Danny Fortson gets first crack as the starting center, with Shawn Bradley (the only real center on the roster) almost certain to get a shot later. *Walker provides offense off the bench (but not at the 5)*, Travis Best backs up Nash, and Delk can play the 1 and the 2.
> 
> 
> DB.com says Walker will come off the bench


How many minutes will Walker get off the bench and how much complaining will Walker do when his shot attempts go way down. He obviously won't be too happy. Even if the Mavs are winning, I can't see how you are getting paid 13 Million dollars and enjoy coming off the bench, this is a nightmare waiting to happen for Dallas. How will he like being the last guy to take a big shot (he may not even be in the game)? Big chemistry issues for Dallas.



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> As for Antoine, he was a leader--on the court. But he quit on Rick Pitino, and this from David Aldridge on his first meeting with Ainge: "Danny Ainge's first meeting over the summer with 'Toine was a disaster, with Ainge telling Walker he didn't think much of his game and Walker telling associates he was definitely out of Beantown at year's end"


This is what I am talking about. Antoine isn't a leader and he isn't going to like not being the man anymore. Even though Pierce was "the man", Antoine was the man with the ball. He is not going to be that way anymore on Dallas.

As for Lafrentz, remember he got all the scrap shots in the Mavs offense, he will not get the chance to have plays run for him and he will at least not shoot as many threes as Walker. His shots will go up as well as a chance to be featured, whereas Antoine's will go way down, but yet his shooting % will most likely stay the same, because he isn't a high % shooter. 

Now they get Welsch and a 1st pick too, add that to the C's one this year and if they make the playoffs at say No. 16 they would be looking at Paul Davis or another Euro they could draft and keep overseas till they are ready. We don't know where they will be stationed in the draft position but next year's draft is big on Big Men and Swingmen. So if someone doesn't work out, they could be next on the chopping block. 

At least now Ainge is gearing to change the team for the future, and much faster than I anticipated too.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

Some of you guys are bashing Lafrentz uneducatedly. Even on ATH yesterday, they said something like the guy can't rebound, can't score, can't block. This is completely false, when healthy and given the minutes, he's one of the premier shot-blockers in the leauge, he's shown at times to be a dominant rebounder and is good for at least 8 boards a game. As for scoring, this is where the question mark lies with him. In Dallas they did nothing to develop his low post presence, they just asked for him to take jumpshot after jumpshot. In college he was a phenomenal low-post player and was probably the best player in the country, I just wonder how they'll play him. Are they going to develop his low post game or ask him to hoist more three's? Another thing is he's relatively injury prone, so we'll have to wait and see how that pans out. 

Kedrick Brown is a big part of this trade, if he steps it up and turns out to be the player we thought he had a chance of becoming when he was drafted, the trade could work out great. If he doesn't, the Celts might have a few problems.

One thing, though, what's Pierce going to think of all this? I'm sure he realizes this is a business, but Walker and he were very close, and on top of this he may not see the trade as equal value (as many other people aren't, obviously). He's got his former college teammate coming in exchange, but I wonder if this will sour Paul. I dunno, the whole trade is chock full of questin marks, only time will tell how it works.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Any validating of this trade is a joke, it was a PATHETIC trade for the Celts. We went from being a possible 3rd in the east to out of the playoffs in one swoop!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> Any validating of this trade is a joke, it was a PATHETIC trade for the Celts. We went from being a possible 3rd in the east to out of the playoffs in one swoop!


So I guess you won't watch the team play first, the season is just a wash to you now. Sad. :no:


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## bujabra (Jun 14, 2003)

Im going to stand up and say this statement in the face of adversity: CELTICS WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON!!!

I believe in this TEAM and PIERCE!
Yesterday everyone was talking about Pierce being a top 8 player (very true) and now everyone is doubting him and his leadership skills! Come on, dont fold under the mounting pressure of the media! I believe!


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*If we don't make the playoffs....*

Jim O'Brien should be fired. As Danny said, "We are a better defensive team. We are a better rebounding team. We are a better shooting team." These are not in dispute. O'Brien can coach defense. Can he coach offense?


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: If we don't make the playoffs....*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Jim O'Brien should be fired. As Danny said, "We are a better defensive team. We are a better rebounding team. We are a better shooting team." These are not in dispute. O'Brien can coach defense. Can he coach offense?


How exactly are the Celtics a better defensive or rebounding
team? Walker was a really good rebounder averaging 8.7 rpg
for his career. That is more than LaFrentz and Walker was doing
it from the forward position.

As far as defense, all I can say is that LaFrentz is really a PF who
was being forced to play Center. With that said while he does
block alot of shots. He also gets pushed around quite a bit under
the basket. I hope he can stay on the floor for you all because
he does commit alot of fouls and ends up taking himself out of the
game.

I do think LaFrentz is decent player and will fit in fine with the
Celtics. I am just not sure that all that Ainge said is true.

One thing I agree with is that they are better shooting team
with Walker's bad shot selection and poor shooting percentage.
The Mavs are going to have to put an end to that.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> Any validating of this trade is a joke, it was a PATHETIC trade for the Celts. We went from being a possible 3rd in the east to out of the playoffs in one swoop!


This is a poor analysis, Lafrentz and Welsch have a lot of talent and potential. Besides, the team wasn't going to contend for a championship the way it was anyway. And if they were in danger of losing Toine for nothing, this was a hell of a deal. You're entitled to bash your team's moves, but I think this turns out to be damn good in the end, I just hope Kedrick can perform.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Peirce is still awesome but he can't carry the team alone and now he has no choice but to do just that which leads to a very tired Paul Peirce. 
Welsch may turn out to be very good, I'm not saying he won't but we had an exciting season about to happen and now it's gonna suck. Even if Jiri turns out awesome it won't happen this year, he's basically a rookie having played so little last year! As for Lafrentz he's as soft as they come and I'm not impressed with his aquisition AT ALL! I would have rather let Battie/Blount play center this year and break in Kendrick Perkins our star of the future!


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bujabra</b>!
> Im going to stand up and say this statement in the face of adversity: CELTICS WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON!!!
> 
> I believe in this TEAM and PIERCE!
> Yesterday everyone was talking about Pierce being a top 8 player (very true) and now everyone is doubting him and his leadership skills! Come on, dont fold under the mounting pressure of the media! I believe!



At least someone's not jumping off the bandwagon, and staying loyal to their team(cough cough waterhino)


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

So overall, this trade is not as bad as I had originally thought for the Celtics. The more I think about it, the more I think they did a good thing in getting rid of Antoine, but I still think they could've got more for him. But when I thought about it, I think LaFrentz will be right up there with the rest of the elite centers in the East(Curry, Ilgauskas, Magloire, Ratliff, possibly Zo). I think in the current situation he's been thrown in, he can produce 15 points and 8 rebounds, and shoot around 45-48% from the floor. Like people have said, he was the 5th option on the Mavs, and thats why he only scored 9 points. It was because of lack of opportunity; Lafrentz shot 51.8% from the field, and 40.5% from 3-pt range last year. Look back to his first few years on the Nuggets, they'll show you that he can produce well in this league, and he's in an ideal situation right now, and I believe he'll produce well. Add in the fact that the Celtics gain Chris Mills' expiring contract, and promising 2nd year player Jiri Welsch, its not a terrible trade for Boston, nevertheless, one I wouldn't have made.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

Well, I go away for two days and miss everything...

First of all- ThereisnoIinteam :worship: I guess you knew more than we did...

My opinion on this trade:

-I am shocked and disappointed! Walker had a lot of haters but he was our leader and second best player! Yes, his FG% wasnt nice and he shot way to many threes but I dont blame him for taking those 3s! I blame Obrien. He was the one that encouraged and ordered him to take those shots! For me Walker was and is underrated and in another team with a different system he can now show his real value! 

-because we were not able to use his whole potential I wasnt against trading him but NOT when his trade value is at all time low (after BOS-NJ series)! The second reason is that you NEVER trade quality for quantity. And no one can say that an allstar + Delk isnt better than what we got in return! I am convinced that we could and should have gotten better players in return! This trade was HORRIBLE! 

-Lafrentz is soft and he has an OUTRAGEOUS contract! 6 more years of Raef with his huge contract will be a burden for this franchise for many years to come. I am not saying that he is not capable of putting up decent numbers but not for the money he is getting! NO way he deserves that much! I would rather see Toine leave at the end of the year for nothing than to get this ludicrous contract in return! I also believe Tony Delk will be greatly missed. He is a great player off the bench for any team. And I dont think fans in Boston really knew what they had in him! He is going to be great in Dallas!

-You have also been talking about 1 round pick. But tell me how many players from late first round have made an impact in the NBA! Getting a good player that late is nothing but lottery!

-About Jiri Welsch: I probably know him better than any other poster here. He played for our national champion Olimpija Ljubljana (Slovenia) for two years under the coach that developed more european NBA players than any other. 
You have been saying that he is our PG but let me tell you he is not a PG. He can play some PG but he is and will be a SG! He played SG and SF here in Europe in euroleague and some PG but he is not the answer to our PG problem! I see him coming of the bench playing SG and maybe some PG and SF. Although, I must say I like his game a lot. He is a great shooter and can be very effective from long range but he is also very athletic (or at least was for european competition) and can take it to the rim. He is also very tough, a nice defender and very hardworking player. All this hype around him isnt for nothing and I expect him to be an important player for us off the bench!

All in all, I feel this was a bad trade for the celtics and I wish Toine can get a ring with the Mavs! We are not going to be much better in long term if we are going to keep getting HUGE and LONGER contracts in return for mediocre players (Potapenko, Baker, Lafrentz...) Yes, we can go into another direction but not by bringing back contracts that can harm us for years! All I can say is that I am disappointed, not only because we lost a devoted player and a team leader, but because this deal wont help us in the long term and WONT bring us closer to banner 17!


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## Freak (Oct 21, 2003)

Anyone who says Antoine is a very good rebounder hasnt watched him much, he averaged 7.2 last year but thats at 41 mins a game equals out to 8.3 rebounds per 48 mins thats barely average for a pf.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Better Rebounding, Better Defense, Better Shooting*

Let's start with the rebounding. As you point out MavsHomer, Walker WAS a good rebounder; back when ML Carr was head coach. Now he gets 7.2 a game in 41 minutes--abysmal numbers for a power forward, who on defense is in the paint most of the time. LaFrentz will help us, but so will Vin Baker, Brandon Hunter, etc. all who would be better rebounders if given the minutes.

We are a better defensive team--I think that's pretty clear. 

We could have traded for my grandmother and improved our shooting. As for your, "the Mavs will have to deal with that," on Antoine, best of luck to you guys. His 38% was worst in the league among regulars last season. He also shot substantially worse than Shaq at the foul line last season. Enjoy.


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## Freak (Oct 21, 2003)

This trade actually got me thinking...has any player ever averaged less than 38% from the floor and still posted 20+ ppg over a full season ?!?!?!?


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Better Rebounding, Better Defense, Better Shooting*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Let's start with the rebounding. As you point out MavsHomer, Walker WAS a good rebounder; back when ML Carr was head coach. Now he gets 7.2 a game in 41 minutes--abysmal numbers for a power forward, who on defense is in the paint most of the time. LaFrentz will help us, but so will Vin Baker, Brandon Hunter, etc. all who would be better rebounders if given the minutes.


Walker is still a good rebounder. I don't think his skills as a rebounder have deteriorated. What changed is that he was no longer in position on the offensive end to get rebounds. In his second season, when he averaged over 10 rebounds a game, 3.3 of them came on the offensive end. Last season, he only averaged 1.3. That's what happens when you're always on the perimeter. When he's inside, he's a great offensive rebounder. That second season, he averaged 6.9 defensive boards. Last season, he averaged 5.9 (a number comparable to Rasheed Wallace, Abdur-Rahim or Kenyon Martin). That's only a drop of 1 rebound. Taking into consideration that Pierce was not with the team that second season and that since he joined, he has consistently become a better defensive rebounder each year, it makes sense that Walker's defensive rebounding would go down a bit. If Nellie plays him in the post, I think he'll do fine. It'll be harder in the West, and he won't get anywhere near the minutes, so his totals may go down, but his rebounds per minute will likely go up.


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