# Lets play GM



## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

Let's pretend for a moment that we are NOT Knick fans. How do you OBJECTIVELY see the roster and what direction would you go? Remember...put down your loyalties for this. Here is my analysis.

Marbury- I was originally opposed to the trade based on heresay from all over the map. I took him to be selfish and not able to carry a team. Since then I have dismissed the selfishness that seemed to be the general consensus. He can carry a team when he is hot but can lose games for you when he is not. He must drive more and be more of a defensive force. You can't build around him but he is very good. A keeper if he makes some changes and gets help.

Williams- Needs more of an opportunity even if it means moving Marbury to the 2 sometimes. Tough and cool, if he returns with an improved outside jumper, he could make Marbury expendable in the right trade, or command a very good player in return for himself. I like him and would like to see him stay.

Houston- I think he is done as a premier 2 guard. Trade him if you can or try to get him to retire when his knees flare up in Nov. Adios, mi amigo.

Anderson- Please....enough said

Penny- Worth keeping as an overpaid, versatile backup veteran. Skilled and wiley..under-rated defensive player. Trade if you can but not a hardship to keep if he stays healthy .

TT- Classic basketball chassis and freaky athletic for his size. Seductive to Gms and fans because of his potential but he is indeed the definition of an under-achiever. Too much money for a third option which is where he would fit best. Soft and invisible at times. This is the postion I would most like to improve with toughness and dependable scoring. He will be hard to move but a 'Melo or Kobe would fit nicely here.

KT- Good guy off the bench...better trade bait.

Sweetney- I think he is a keeper. Boards well, nice touch and hands..D needs lots of help. I think he would be a superb role player.

Nazr- Can someone say O off the bench? Too many limitations to be a starter on a contending team.

Mutombo- Gone in a trade

DJ- Great young man with tons of courage. May be best suited coming off the bench.

Some of the pieces are here, but we really need to upgrade the talent level. We need a true superstar and a upgrade at the 5 in toughness and defense. Rumors off a Kobe sign and trade with Marbury going west are persistent. That would put us a decent 3 and 5 away from contending and we should be able to make a trade for one ot the other. Guys? Remember...you are not a Knick fan at this moment.


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## inapparent (Jul 2, 2003)

hadn't seen this yet when i started the other offseason thread--maybe they should be combined? i don't think the Kobe rumors will amount to anything more than Knicks rumors usually amount to--they allow an FA leverage with other teams in initial negotiations--we always get used like that (cf. Webber). Melo's not going anywhere unless Aguilera buys a team. I agree that Fwill and Sweets are keepers unless something comes along to make us drool. KT and Mutumbo should be moved, although i can live with KT staying.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

'Melo is from NYC and might be gettable in a couple of years. He would be huge here. Kobe is in the driver's seat much as Melo will be when he approaches free agency. His ego and need to be the "man" make NY viable. The money to be made from endorsements will more than make up fro the small beginning salary. The nice thing is that IF we could entice Kobe(even if SM has to go), I think it would be easier to get Rasheed. FWilliams, Houston(if he can), Kobe, Sweetney and Wallace is a contending starting 5. Fast and fairly tough with no soft spots on offense. Just a bit weak on the boards, but *** a good rebounding sf and move Kobe to the 2 and you would have a monster. Houston off the bench with TT and Nazr would give you some kind of pop.
Dreaming I know, but hey...you never know..the money will be there eventually. Once the Dolans get a rep for taking care of players they sign, more would be willing to come.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

TRADE ALLEN HOUSTAN FOR KOBE

ISIAH IS GENIUS AND MITCH KUPCHAK IS WORST GM IN BASKETBALL IT WILL HAPPEN


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

OMFG CAPS LOCK KEY!



Anyway, I buy out as many people as I can, or take as much money off their contracts as I can, then trade everyone away for picks for this year, then I rebuild.


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## Jmonty580 (Jun 20, 2003)

If I were the Knicks GM I would try my hardest to get either Rasheed Wallace or Erick Dampier. I would really strive to get Dampier becuase we really need a center on this team.

Kurt Thomas, Deke, and Harrington (could be picked up in the expansion draft) would be gone one way or another. Kurt Thomas has trade value, maybe GS would be interested if we included Frank Williams for dampier in a sign and trade. 

PG: Marbury/ Duhon (we could draft him)
SG: Houston/Penny
SF: Tim Thomas/ Johnson (hopefully we could resign him)
PF: Sweetney/Baker (if we could keep him with the LLE)
C: Dampier/Mohamad

If we cant keep Vin Baker then we keep Deke and let him back up Dampeir and Mohomad and Sweetney could share the minutes at pf.


Even though that seems like the same old team from last season it has a healthy sg in Allan Houston which makes a world of difference and we get a good center ( Dampier holds it down out west so I know he can do his work in the east).

IF IF IF we were lucky enough to do the sign and trade for Dampier we would still have the MLE and with that we could try and see if we can pick up Marcus Camby. Or maybe (which I strongly doubt) Rasheed wowuld come to NY.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

dampiers overrated. he was in a contract year. Think fortson. fortson led the league in rebounding, went to dallas and warmed the bench. Dampiers averaging a double double and a couple of blocks, give him a nice contract and pressures off him.


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

I think Dampier would turn out ok, especially in the East. He did pretty well defending Shaq this year, what would he do against the centers in the East? He might not have a lot of offensive skills but he won't be asked to be a offensive player here. All he has to do is grab his rebounds and play solid D, and I think we would have a pretty good center. 

Right now we are rock solid at 1. Marbury is a star in the league and when he is on the Knicks are close to unstoppable. Of course, he isn't always on, but we have a really solid backup in Frank Williams. If Williams has a better outside shot and makes less turnovers, he could be a solid starter and Marbury could move to the 2. If Norris plays like he did at the end of teh season he would be a solid backup, if he plays like he did earlier in the season he is a career scrub. 

2 is a big question mark right now. If Houston is healthy this is not an area of concern, because Houston still owns one of the leagues best outside shots. We would have Penny and DJ backing Houston up, who are both solid backups. DJ could be more than solid but that depends on how he developes in the offseason. Anderson is now a public enemy of Knicks fans so I doubt he will be used often or be effective. If Houston is hurt we are in deep trouble here because we have no starter quality guy unless DJ improves a lot. 

3 is also a question mark. If only TT could play up to his potential this would not be a problem, but it is looking more and more like a dream. TT is, however, a pretty solid 3 IMO. If he is the third option he will score his points with a high efficency. He wouldnot be worth the amount of money he earns but his contract is still better than those of Norris, Anderson (for sure...), and Penny. I still have this slim hope that playing by his hometown will motivate TT, but it is a very slim hope. Once again we have Penny and DJ backing up the 3 position. 

4 is a solid position. We have KT starting rightn ow, who is a decent PF. He probably has more worth as trade bait than a player though. KT with Sweetney and Harrington backing him up is a pretty solid PF rotation IMO. I have no idea why NBAdraft.net has PF as one of our biggest needs. Sweetney didn't play that well early on but really came together in the second half of the season. If he can continue to improve like that KT could be traded away without much of a loss. 

5 is our biggest problem IMO. I love Nazr, but I have to admit his defensive skills leave a lot to be desired. Probably not the best center you could get, even in the East. Mutumbo is getting really old and I doubt how many more minutes his body can hold. Baker plays well in one game and disappears in another, so I really don't know what of make of him. If we can keep him for a cheap price I would, but nothing over the veterens minimum. 

Right now I think our whole offseason is based on Houston's knees. If Houston is healthy, the obvious move would be to upgrade the 5 first, and than a possible upgrade of the 3. Dampier would be my first possible target. If we can get him to sign for the MLE, great, but since that isn't that possible we probably have to work a sign and trade. Everyone is pretty much on the same page when we say KT, Harrington, Mutumbo, and Williams are the only viable trading chips we have. KT is in doubt right now because of his 15% salary kicker. Anyway, we probably will have to trade away a lot of our depth to get a decent center. Another guy I am high on is Stormile Swift. I would really love to have him play undersized center for the Knicks. 

If Houston isn't healthy we have a big problem because we would need to upgrade the 2 position first IMO. We really need a shooter to spread the floor. Problem is we can't trade away too much of our depth for 2 positions. We could survive with trading away depth for one position but not 2. For example if we trade away Williams and Norris does not pan out, we need to upgrade the 1. If we trade away KT and Sweetney does not pan out while Harrington does not play well (and if we don't resign Baker) we will need help at 4. Hopefully Houston is healthy or we are in deep trouble. 

Btw this is probably my last post for a while (10 days). I'm a high school junior who has to cram for his SATs and APs now, so I'll be gone for a while. Need to really work now to get into my dream school (U Penn, where Max Payne is right now, haha) Wish me luck.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

TRADE MARBURY FOR BARON DAVIS 
DID YOU SEE HIM LAST NIGHT HOW COME MARBURY COULDNT DO THAT VS NETS


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE COOKIE MONSTER</b>!
> TRADE MARBURY FOR BARON DAVIS
> DID YOU SEE HIM LAST NIGHT HOW COME MARBURY COULDNT DO THAT VS NETS


david west woke up...

marbury had no one backin him up...


only players on knicks who showed heart

kurt thomas
frank williams


marbury showed some wit his play, but then he would take a silly three, which had me bangin my head against the wall...

i like demarr, but i dont see him as more than a 7th man, and shandon anderson should be doing nothing more than handing out towels and gatorade...

*work is over*

i aint tryin to sit here another 5 or 10 mins

peace!


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

Ironic how people are complaning about Steph's shot selection, yet, they want to pick up Stephen Jackson.!


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## the Trent Tuckers (Feb 15, 2004)

btw melo is from baltimore, not nyc, but other than that Alpha i think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

HOW COME YOU SAY MARBURY HAS NO BACKUP AND THEN SAY FRANK WILLIAMS PLAYED WELL


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Marbury - Now the heart of the team, and rightfully so. One of the best guys in the league at making his team better, he's definitely a top ten passer, though there are contract conflictions, and I think they paid too much for him, but too late now.

Houston - Completely worthless. If we could get rid of him, I'd say go for it, and replace him with Williams who has a much higher efficiency rating per 48 minutes or replace Marbury with Williams and Houston with Marbury, though I'd prefer the first. Like we will be able to get rid of Houston's contract thought. DemMarr would also be a good choice, I only think Houston is slightly better in the first place and is 100 X the price

Tim Thomas - A mediocre player, a good role player, and is a true small forward, which is very unusual. decent in just about everything, though his toughness has been questioned

Kurt Thomas - Another stupid outlandish contract. He isn't worth the money for 11 PPG and 9 rebounds, especially with Sweetney on the bench. All in all, his contract extension was the worst move the Knicks did last year, though maybe he's trade bate.

Nazr Mohommad - In order for him to reach his maximum potential, he either needs to ride the bench or play power forward. Being that Sweetney and Thomas are there, this guy looks like a back-up at best, so I'd say he's another guy who's trade bait. It would be nice to see a packaged deal with him and Houston go somewhere. *cough* Utah *cough*

Note: There is NO WAY that the Knicks win with this offense. Houston, Thomas, Thomas, and Mohommad are all mediocre at best, and Houston and both the Thomas's are overpaid, and, with the bench also making up a lot of cap space, the Knicks are still screwed for next year, and I don't want to hear any optimistic BS from anybody else, the rest of the league knows it, every other team's respective board knows it, regardless of the fact that the Knicks made the playoffs, with the tremendous salary and the fact that a good 70% of the team is either over-the-hill or at their prime, there is no-way no-how that the Knicks will be all that much better, and they will still be gone after the first round. While Layden was an absolutely atrocious GM, Isiah himself has not proven himself at all either, and the lineup in which he has assembled is maybe 1/2 to 1 star better than it was with Layden, and he paid far too much, Vujanic, Lampe, and a first round pick, 3 perennial starters down the stretch, for one starter, one guy who is expected to be a complete scrub, and another mediocre-at-best shooting guard/small forward. Layden sucks, Isiah is virtually the same entity. Live for a slightly-better-than-crappy present at the expense of the future.

Hardaway - Keep him around, he's a good guy off the bench and the perrenial starter should Houston go down and DemMarr faill.

Anderson - God awful player, way overpaid, should be gone, but for some reason, he started in the playoffs, when in all actuallity he isn't worthy of carrying Moochie Norris's jock. Horrible offense, pretty bad defense, normally it's the centers that teams keep around just for the height, not the 2/3 combo guy.

Sweetney - Should be starting and the Knicks should be in a rebuilding faze right now with a starting lineup in which I would say 4 of 5 guys right now are merely mediocre. Started off bad, but finished incredibly strong. Charles Barkley minus the attitude problem.

Johnson - A guy that should get a tryout as a starter, if he works out, find someplace where we could dump Houston, even if a draft pick has to be comprimised, at least there would be room under the cap.

Mutumbo - Hard working, nice guy that still has enough in the tank to contribute. A good veteran guy to have. He is, however, over the hill and only a mediocre player.

Trybanski - One of those "hey he's European he might be good... or not" guys that didn't pan out. Needs to gain about 30 lbs. to be effective in the paint, and, being that he is the same physical dimensions of Mutumbo, MAYBE a miracle could be worked there

Harrington - A decent bench player, but with Sweetney and Thomas, he's completely useless and too much money.

Williams - Another guy that should be tried out at the 2 spot, and if he works out, dump Houston. Very good, clean and fundamentally sound on offense, and, though his defense needs work, it's still no worse than Houston'

Norris - gone

Baker - gone


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

AH - Good luck moving him. Bad knees and a huge deal.

Marbury - The only thing of real value.

Kurt - a nice player but way overpaid. Zeke gave him that extension so he could balance salaries easier. Problem is that no one will want him in a sign and trade. A team like GS would rather just have their player (Dampier??) come off the cap with no immediate replacement.

Penny - The only way you could get a better player is to trade for someone with an even worse contract. A deal like Jalen Rose for Penny. Penny has 2 years left, JR has 3. Essentially a cap relief deal for the other team.

Most of the guys NY has will have to be moved for guys with even worse deals.

You don't have much of a future. Short of trading Stephon, you have no chance of a significant addition. But how does that get you much further ahead? No picks. Few prospects. No caproom. All on the 7th team in the East. Yikes!!


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Double Post


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> Kurt - a nice player but way overpaid. Zeke gave him that extension so he could balance salaries easier.


Here I go again...

Kurt made $5,334,190 this year. Next year, under the extension, he'll make $5,884,500.

Now granted, he got extended four more years, and his salary does escalate. But why is everyone making him out to be exhorbitant now - how is 5.3M so much less, or more, tradable than 5.9?

People make it sound like Kurt's salary got doubled, or maxed out. It didn't, it's still right in line with others in his class. If not show me who's on the block with similar talent for such less money.


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## inapparent (Jul 2, 2003)

here are his numbers:

04-05:$5,884,500
05-06:$6,620,062
06-07:$7,355,625
07-08:$8,091,187

I though t he was signed through 08-09, but hoopshype.com didn't have info for that year. KT will be 34 and 35 in the last 2 years listed above, at which point je'll probably be significantly overpaid for his production, but that's typically how contracts work--you pay on the back end for having retained the player when he was still good. so i can live with this.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>inapparent</b>!
> 
> KT will be 34 and 35 in the last 2 years listed above, at which point je'll probably be significantly overpaid for his production, but that's typically how contracts work--you pay on the back end for having retained the player when he was still good.


Exactly!

He'll be rewarded then for having been relatively cheap in his prime. And he'll still be way less than some of the many mistakes that were made with others in his class, like the Antonio and Dale Davis, Jerome Williams, etc.

But his new contract does not put him into a new stratosphere in terms of matching salaries for high priced trades and I think to the teams he was originally attractive to, he'll still be attractive. I mean he was an underpaid free agent, anyone wanting him knew if they got him he'd be asking them for a new contract at more money. They may have feared how much more money. Now they know. The certainty of that might actually make him even more attractive.


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