# Who you want the Cavs to take in the draft



## Wagner2 (Jun 29, 2002)

I was interested in what other Cavs fans are thinking about the Cavs most pressing need for the draft. Let's just assume we stay put with pick #10..what position do you want, and do you have any players in mind?

Personally, I'm leaning towards PG or SF.

I would love to see Jameer Nelson in a Cavs uni.
I am also intrigued by SF's Hakim Warrick and Josh Childress. That said, I think PG depth is a much bigger need, and while I would like to see Nelson, players like Ben Gordon, Devon Harris and Sebastian Telfair could still be around (although I'd hate to see Telfair because I don't see him as an NBA-ready player, and this is a need that we need to address immediatly to make a playoff run in '04-'05)


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I think they should draft a point guard. Devin Harris would be a good choice if he's still available, and I like Jameer Nelson a lot too.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I like Harris or Telfair. Mcginnis is nice, but he's not a franchise great point guard, he's a stop gap until something better.

Failing that, I would like them to draft a sweet shooting euro player that I've never heard of but who can bring it from day one.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> I like Harris or Telfair. Mcginnis is nice, but he's not a franchise great point guard, he's a stop gap until something better.


Not only that, but he's a lot older than James and Boozer. By the time LeBron is ready to contend for a title, McInnis will be too old.



> Failing that, I would like them to draft a sweet shooting euro player that I've never heard of but who can bring it from day one.


That will be fun on draft day... "With the 10th pick, the Cleveland Cavaliers select.... a sweet shooting Euro that you've never heard of." futuristxen: "Yes!"


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

One-It's McInnis..

I'd like Ben Gordon.

Also, Telefair has no business being in the NBA and I will laugh harder at the team that picked them than the Bucks for selection TJ "I didn't even make the rookie game roster" Ford. Telefair will be a laugher, I can't wait til a team wastes a pick on that bum.

Also, why would anyone want Warrick? He is a poor mans D Miles. If you didn't like Miles, why would you want Warrick? Atleast Miles can have his way in the paint when he tries, Warrick will never have that. Warrick has NO chance at making a jumper, atleast Miles can do that and play some D.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

I'd say Gordon, but I want him for Seattle.

You guys take Telfair or Harris


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

I'm leaning towards towards Ivan Chiriaev. I just like the idea of a 7'1" player that has guard like ability.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> I'm leaning towards towards Ivan Chiriaev. I just like the idea of a 7'1" player that has guard like ability.


 The last thing Lebron needs is a guy so full of himself he makes Lennox Lewis look like Gandhi....sheesh...you guys should check out some of the articles on him in the Draft section....disgusting..Lebron would rip this guy to shreds at the first practice out of disgust. They're much, much better off drafting a proven point guard in the draft.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> That will be fun on draft day... "With the 10th pick, the Cleveland Cavaliers select.... a sweet shooting Euro that you've never heard of." futuristxen: "Yes!"


:rotf: 

And Cavstalk, I'll probably keep spelling Mcinnis, Mcginnis for quite some time. Even Mike Bibby has it mispelled on his game tapes. I'm retarded like that.

And TJ Ford was a very good pick. He actually deserved to make the rookie game. If the Bucks still had TJ they would probably not be playing hte Pistons in the first round, instead they'd be the ones beating New Orleans, instead of Miami.

The Cavs could do a lot worse than TJ Ford...in fact that's the kind of push guard that the Cavs could use off the bench. I think Telfair is getting unfairly hated upon as a backlash to his hype. He's more NBA ready than a lot of people seem to know.


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## Wagner2 (Jun 29, 2002)

futuristexn - 

Don't worry about what CavsTalk may say in your response when it comes to the draft, or the NBA for that matter. According to him LeBron would play sparingly (certainly not start) his rookie season, and Ricky Davis really isn't a team cancer, among other things. The comparison of Hakim Warrick to Darius Miles is ridiculous. The more I've thought about it the more I realize that depth at the point guard position is definitly our biggest need. It would be stupid of us not to take a PG in this PG deep draft.
I would love to see us take either Nelson, Harris, Gordon, or maybe even Telfair.


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

Give me a break.....nobody in their right mind could have predicted what Lebron did his rookie year. I was basing my opinion on the many HSers that have came out, there was no way to tell he would explode like that.

Ricky Davis isn't a team cancer, he may not be a player you like on the court but he isn't destroying a team within. That has never been said about him, the only thing close to that came when the rumors of him talking to Z. Outside of that, never. So don't assume or try to put something on a player that is not true.

How am I wrong with the Warrick Miles comparison? It's a face, watch Warrick play. He is a exact replica of Miles, or are you blind?

Telafair ready for the NBA...:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Those laugh will continue about this time next year if somebody drafts that fool.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

So you admit you didn't predict that LeBron was ready for the NBA, and you were wrong, and now you predict Telfair isn't ready for the NBA, and you're laughing at people who disagree with you? Are you sure?


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CavsTalk</b>!
> Give me a break.....nobody in their right mind could have predicted what Lebron did his rookie year.


Well I did, and so did some others. 



> Ricky Davis isn't a team cancer, he may not be a player you like on the court but he isn't destroying a team within. That has never been said about him, the only thing close to that came when the rumors of him talking to Z. Outside of that, never. So don't assume or try to put something on a player that is not true.


I think the rest of us agree here that Davis was the perfect example of a "team cancer." I would say there are only a small number of "cancers" in the league, but if one were to make a list, he would be on it. 

"Team cancer" applies to on-court play as well, because that's pretty important. Plus, I think Davis had an attitude problem of the court. Of course you won't hear someone from the Cavs come right out and bash Davis (only a player like Davis himself would do that). Instead, Silas and the writers hinted that Davis was causing problems. And then we hear Davis act like a child, ranting about his disdain towards the Cavs right after the trade. Adding these together, I would say his attitude was a problem while with the Cavs. 




> Telafair ready for the NBA...:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


*Why* are you laughing? You are arguing based on *emotion* and not by *analysis*. There are many people on the Cavs board that have a good track record (like predicting LeBron), and they have watched Telfair. They think he might not be a bad pick. He does have very good instincts and superb skills. The Cavs are young now, so this might be the time to take one more young talent. It's not worthy of a laugh, certainly. 


The people of the Cavs board have been very specific and accurate for a year. You may not be good at judging basketball, but that doesn't mean we aren't as well. Also, I really haven't seen any irrational "main" posters on this board. Just a thought.


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## StraylightRunner (Aug 14, 2003)

I think Telfair could make at least second-team all-rookie. The only thing I have against him on the Cavs is I want him to be the star on a team, and he can't be on a team with LeBron and Boozer (regardless of hype, Boozer may end up being better than Telfair, also regardless of position).

The Warrick-Miles comparison is wrong for one reason. Miles = little to none back to the basket game for his size. Warrick = very, spectacular back to the basket game for his size. Warrick is already better than Miles (not taking away from Miles, I like him, but Warrick is better right now).


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The Miles-Warrick comparison is basically...two skinny guys with long arms who like to dunk...

really not a whole lot of high level analysis or creative thinking going on there.

Here's why Miles and Warrick are not similiar:
Warrickost Player
Miles: Perimeter Player

I hope that clears some things up.

The Cavs obviously wouldn't have a real reason to pick up Warrick as they have their bases covered in terms of post players.


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## wild_style (Feb 26, 2004)

i personally think telfair would be a good pick, sure hes young and may not have an nba ready body, but the guy has some serious skills, and will develop, just as the team is.
the other thing people are over looking is lebron and telfair are actually good friends, bron may have some influence in taking him in the draft.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

I think telfair will do ok. Just look at all those articles on him. Writers just rave about the guy. Was it in the ABCD comp that he showed all those college players to shame? im not sure i was reading about it somewhere i forget. please enlighten me guys.

About the warrick miles comparison. If you guys saying warrick is a post orientated player, how many times do u think he'll be alowed to post up in an nba game? Dont u think coaches will try to push him to a perimeter position like 2guard, or sf. Hes so skinny that he'll have hardly a chance in the post relying solely on his athletisism. But i hear he can shoot too.

im not too concerned with our rookie pick. I think we need a few more vets. Toni Kukoc, would be a nice addition, hes playing great as of late too. 

We need a shooter who can start. Kapono is our best shooter, and hes not starter worthy atm. We need a sf who can stretch the defences with his shooting.


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## thefuture2 (May 2, 2004)

draft gordon, put him at SG, move bron to SF and start McInnis at PG.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Gordon and McInnis is too short a backcourt. They would create way too many mismatches.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

My take...

If you want a 3 who can shoot and play defense to replace E-Will who will probably be allowed to walk next season...

Take Childress. He plays good defense and can shoot, which is an area this team needs help him. Then you would have Childress, Kapono and Wagner (who's actually becoming a decent mark) and Brown who could shoot. Getting a shooter who also plays defense in Childress would be good.

Or...

Take Telfair...

I know before I begin, somebody would ask why take Telfair if you want a PG? It would be risky because while he has the most potential, you might ask "What if he never fulfills that potential and you passed over better players?" That would be bad. Yet of most of the PG's in the draft, Telfair is one of the best passers and past-first type of players. Several other of the PG's in the draft are scoring PG's and look to score more than pass. That's why Cleveland, if they draft a PG, need a guy who wants to pass and let James/Big Z/Boozer get the shots without worrying about his own. Plus McInnis is doing solid now, so get a guy for the future in Telfair. If Cleveland drafts Telfair, it would be like Detroit drafting Darko. You passed on players who were better right now for a player you think you will be better in the future.


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## thefuture2 (May 2, 2004)

isnt quickness in the backcourt what you want? if they're having trouble getting it up court, give it to bron and let him do it.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> I'm leaning towards towards Ivan Chiriaev. I just like the idea of a 7'1" player that has guard like ability.


Did I say that? Well the more I hear about him the more I think he should go to college. I'd still take him if the Cavs had a 2nd rounder but not in the lottery.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> 
> 
> Did I say that? Well the more I hear about him the more I think he should go to college. I'd still take him if the Cavs had a 2nd rounder but not in the lottery.


You might want to rethink about using that 2nd rounder.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1084054208522

As for Gordon, unless the Raptors win a top 3 slot, I can't see him slipping past 8. He may not even be there at 8.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I've been going back and forth between a PG or SF but now, I think I'm sold on getting a SF.

Why?

Because not only the E-Will situation, but the Nailon situation. Getting a good SF in the draft who can score AND play defense (something Nailon doesn't do cuz he only scores), means the Cavs could let Nailon go. If they draft a PG, they'll need to keep Nailon. While Nailon has some good basketball left in him, Cleveland could draft wisely and trim the roster slightly.


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## Rodzilla (Mar 11, 2003)

I personally say we go with a sf. I say we either go, Josh Smith (soooooo much potential, freak athlete with 3 pt range), Andre Igoudala(another awesome athlete, great passer, can't shoot a lick though), or Josh Chlidress(immediate impact player, could step in and give us 10-12ppg easily. Jack of all trades, master of none)


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## LeBronisnumba1 (May 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wagner2</b>!
> I was interested in what other Cavs fans are thinking about the Cavs most pressing need for the draft. Let's just assume we stay put with pick #10..what position do you want, and do you have any players in mind?
> 
> Personally, I'm leaning towards PG or SF.
> ...


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

I would prefer a SF but a backup at the PF position would come in handy as well. I could see the Cavs drafting Varejao as well.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I wonder why Josh Smith is slipping in most mock drafts? Does he have a terrible attitude or slacking work ethic?

Because if Smith is available when Cleveland has the pick, I'd take Smith over any other SG/SF at that point.


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## Seiklis (May 28, 2003)

I'll be honest, I have no idea why Smith would be falling either. Smith seems to have out performed Howard in most cases when they go head to head.

The biggest scare there seems to be is exactly how raw he is, he doesn't have the lateral movement to be a guard defensivly so he's pretty much landlocked at SF. Nothing wrong with that since that's exactly what we need, but the biggest is the same problem Darius had, consistancy. Now I see a major difference between the two is not all of Smith's points are just lay-ups as in the Mcdonald's High school game he had 34 points going I think 7 for 7 from three land. But he still has to learn some phases of the same and in some cases, such as defenders daring him to shoot and his insane shot blocking ability, remind me of Darius. But if he's there, the Cavs have to take him. They won't be within the lottery for at least 4-5 years again so best to go for the home run than just try for a single; they'll be doing that with all the picks in the 20s. But my ideal situation is that by some miracle Cleveland gets the third pick in the draft in a situation like.

1 Washington
2 Chicago
3 Cleveland.

Now Washington would take Okafor of course but the Chicago selection would be interesting as they will not go for a high school kid and instead opt for Deng. So that leaves Cleveland with Dwight Howard. Now Atlanta in my opinion will be begging us to trade that pick to them and for a move from 3 to 7 I would not be that against it as Smith should still be there. So I'm would be willing to bet Atlanta could very easily throw us a 7, 17, 34, and next years pick top 3 or so protected to move up to 3 to get the savior of the franchise. It's a trade I just couldn't pass up.

It's not that I dislike Howard, it's just that I never see him being a star. He's too nice with his game and it seems whenever he plays with or against any talent, someone out performs him. Now Howard is 6-10 1/2- 6-11 and will come out of Chicago with a growth chart saying he could end up at 7-1 but like Okafor I see them as being above average starters, not stars. Smith though, could possible be a star as he has a nice shooting stroke and has as much athletic ability as anyone in this league.

So let's say the Cavs trade 3 for 7 and end up with Smith there, at 17 the Cavs could easily afford to take a chance on another talent though one who needs to lose some weight. Al Jefferson, his senior year gained about 10 extra pounds of fat to get to 250 and hid his althletic ability by doing so. he's one of the few natual post players in this draft and should be able to play center if his growth chart comes out at even 6-10 1/2. He's 6-9 or so right now. He another player who out performed Howard in the head to ehad match up and only scored 13 points in the Mcdonald's game due to Howard and Jefferson being on the same team. 

All and all, Smith and Jefferson could easily be better than Howard and seems to me is a risk worth taking.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

are the Cavs giving up on Dajuan Wagner? cause by drafting another PG it sounds like it. I think Josh Smith is a tremendous natural talent but his stock has been sliding due to his lack of good defensive skills and desire. His shock blocking ability is all he has defensively and his Jump shot can be very inconsistent. Childress would be a perfect fit for the team cause he can play right away and do it all. much like a marquis daniels/josh howard type of player but better. with a line up of:
PG. Jeff McGniss( or whatever his last name is)
SG. Lebron James
SF. Josh Childress
PF. Carlos Boozer
C. Z

The Cavs would definitely be locked to make the playoffs.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Josh Smith reminds me of Shawn Marion, whom I think is the perfect complimentary player for LeBron. If the cavs draft Josh Smith, they NEED to go out and sign another SF and have Smith come off the bench. Hedo Turkoglu is who I have in mind, let hedo be the starting SF for a few seasons, while Smith is devoloping. Hedo would be an excellent marksman, who can spread the defense and should relish with a bigger role on a team because he is a decent defender and has some handles.

It really doesn’t make sense to draft a BACKUP pg. You can go find cheaper BACKUPS in free agency. Guys like Damon Jones would do just fine in Cleveland. However, Smith could be very good and you would hope for him to be a starting small forward soon and hopefully become an all star type player. Jeff McInnis is just fine as a starter, hes my favorite type of point guard. Can score but looks to get people involved first but can provide you much needed offense when the time comes. The cavs just need someone who can push the ball and maybe hit the three when McInnis takes a break. You don’t waste the #10 pick on a player like that.

J-mack, Bron, Hedo, Booz, Z

key bench players
Damon Jones, Josh Smith, Kedrick Brown, Tony Battie(Diop)


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Seiklis</b>!
> I'll be honest, I have no idea why Smith would be falling either. Smith seems to have out performed Howard in most cases when they go head to head.
> 
> The biggest scare there seems to be is exactly how raw he is, he doesn't have the lateral movement to be a guard defensivly so he's pretty much landlocked at SF. Nothing wrong with that since that's exactly what we need, but the biggest is the same problem Darius had, consistancy. Now I see a major difference between the two is not all of Smith's points are just lay-ups as in the Mcdonald's High school game he had 34 points going I think 7 for 7 from three land. But he still has to learn some phases of the same and in some cases, such as defenders daring him to shoot and his insane shot blocking ability, remind me of Darius. But if he's there, the Cavs have to take him. They won't be within the lottery for at least 4-5 years again so best to go for the home run than just try for a single; they'll be doing that with all the picks in the 20s. But my ideal situation is that by some miracle Cleveland gets the third pick in the draft in a situation like.
> ...


Welcome Seiklis, and that was a good post. I too have harbored hope that we can somehow freak out another lottery pick, and really set the organization's future on a solid footing. Your scenario would work well for me too. The ATL might even suggest a player trade too.... hmmm... is there any small forwards on the ATL with good 3 pt range we might be interested in???? :yes: 

Good post, and welcome again!


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Josh Smith reminds me of Shawn Marion, whom I think is the perfect complimentary player for LeBron. If the cavs draft Josh Smith, they NEED to go out and sign another SF and have Smith come off the bench. Hedo Turkoglu is who I have in mind, let hedo be the starting SF for a few seasons while Smith is devoloping. Hedo would be an excellent marksman who can spread the defense and should relish with a bigger role on a team because he is a decent defender and has some handles.
> 
> It really doesn’t make sense to draft a BACKUP pg. You can go find cheaper BACKUPS in free agency. Guys like Damon Jones would do just fine in Cleveland. However Smith could be very good and you would hope for him to be a starting small forward soon and hopefully become an all star type player. Jeff McInnis is just fine as a starter, hes my favorite type of point guard. Can score but looks to get people involved first but can provide you much needed offense when the time comes. The cavs just need someone who can push the ball and maybe hit the three when McInnis takes a break. You don’t waste the #10 pick on a player like that.
> ...


You da man Tyguy... I agree that we don't need to spend a first rounder on a PG. Ok, fine, you wanna spend a 2nd rounder on a project... no problem. FA... fine. We got bigger needs on this team than a back-up PG IMO.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> Childress would be a perfect fit for the team cause he can play right away and do it all.


If Josh is gone, I would take Childress in a heartbeat. But if both players were still available by the time of Cleveland's pick, Smith would have to be the frontrunner.

---

I saw Josh Smith play in person one time. He caught one dunk with his head at rim level (a la LeBron) and I felt like going home after seeing that. It was terribly sick, so sick I can't really describe it. Then he was hitting treys. Right now, Childress is probably more refined but I would have a guilty conscious passing on Smith's raw ability.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

can u post of a clip of josh smith doing stuff like that? I really want to see why he is lottery! 

oh and one more thing Luol Deng or Josh Smith?


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Does anyone remember that blocked shot Josh Smith had in the McDonald's game? The guy was going up for a layup and suddenly Josh Smith came out of nowhere and spiked the ball into the crowd... it was impressive.

I think he's something in between Darius Miles and Tracy McGrady. It all depends on his work ethic, but he has the potential to be a very good player.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Telfair might be a nice choice, just because his age runs well with Lebrons. Jeff McInnis will be able to play the point for a few more years, so its not like the Cavs are in desperate need of a point guard right now. They could limit Telfairs minutes and basically just work him into the NBA game. The key thing is, with McInnis they wouldnt need Telfair to produce right away, its an investment and as long as they develop him it should be a good investment. 

Of course, I'm not sure you can go wrong with some of the other guards in the draft either.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

If Cleveland doesn't draft a 3, they'd almost be better off drafting a big man and then trying to sign a FA. If they took Telfair, I'd be disappointed. With E-Will probably walking and Newble being inconsistent, the 3 spot needs help right now. The PG situation can wait another year or two.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

I too would be disappointed if we took Telfair. I think if Childress is there, he would be more of a "fill an immediate need immediately" pick. Then take a chance on some pg who dropped into the 2nd round. Childress can hit the 3, and plays better defense and is a better athlete than Kapono.... pencil Childress into the starting lineup after a few weeks, and he can split time with Ira for a while. Kapono, Wagner, Kedrick all gunners on the bench.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

If we don't take a 3, I think that the Cavs should take a 4. I just think the team needs better depth in the frontcourt since Boozer is the only 4 on the team.


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## rocketman04 (May 25, 2004)

last position i draft for is the 4 slot


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think back up PG is the most important position to address through the draft. There aren't really any sweet shooting starting 3's in the draft at 10, but there are in FA. And we all saw what happened without Mcinnis. This team needs a better option than Kevin Ollie. Telfair or Nelson would be fine picks for the Cavs at 10, with an edge for me personally towards Telfair.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> I think back up PG is the most important position to address through the draft. There aren't really any sweet shooting starting 3's in the draft at 10, but there are in FA. And we all saw what happened without Mcinnis. This team needs a better option than Kevin Ollie. Telfair or Nelson would be fine picks for the Cavs at 10, with an edge for me personally towards Telfair.


I agree.

As for sweet shooting starting 3's in the draft at 10, Luke Jackson might fit that criteria. But that may be too high to take him, depending on who you listen to. I've heard he's working himself into the top 15 in workouts lately.

He's polished enough to start and he can certainly shoot and pass well. But I agree with you, point guard is the first priority.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I agree that Luke Jackson might be good enough to help the Cavs this year. But it's kind of like, why make that risk? If he doesn't pan out it's another wing player on the bench, which the Cavs have a lot of. Whereas drafting a pg, especially one like Telfair seems like a big reward proposition. With not really a whole lot of risk. If Telfair doesn't pan out, Mcinnis is still there starting and the Cavs'll make do with Ollie and Lebron. But if he does pan out he could really energize the second unit and be the future for when Mcinnis is ready to be put to pasture.

But I guess I'm preaching to the choir on this one.

Telfair works out for the Cavs tomorrow, no? Should be interesting to see how that works out. If he really comes out and wows the Cavs I think he could lock up the 10 spot. Which would be a big suprise for a lot of folks around these boards.


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I think back up PG is the most important position to address through the draft. There aren't really any sweet shooting starting 3's in the draft at 10, but there are in FA. And we all saw what happened without Mcinnis. This team needs a better option than Kevin Ollie. Telfair or Nelson would be fine picks for the Cavs at 10, with an edge for me personally towards Telfair.


I disagree completely, soley on the fact that Silas has to be wishing Wagner can turn into Bobby Jackson.

At that, Ollie hurts us a starter, not a reserve. Ollie is a decent backup and if Wagner progresses at the 1 then he can be there as well. You cant plan that McInnis will be injured.

If we select Telfair, it sends the message that this team doesnt want to win. He brings nothing to this team. He is a project and you are foolish to think he would be an upgrade over Ollie. PG is one of the most desired positions, it is hard to learn and you expect Telfair to come in with so much he has to learn to even become a decent player to be a decent backup on a playoff team? No..

If Harris or Gordon isn't there, we can't go PG. Nelson has drawn comparisons to Khalid ElAmin sp? and we don't need that.

There are also rumors that we might sign Brevin Knight who is a solid backup PG.

Anything but Telfair should be the slogan...


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CavsTalk</b>!
> I disagree completely, soley on the fact that Silas has to be wishing Wagner can turn into Bobby Jackson.
> 
> At that, Ollie hurts us a starter, not a reserve. Ollie is a decent backup and if Wagner progresses at the 1 then he can be there as well. You cant plan that McInnis will be injured.


Wagner will never be a pure point. This experiment at best can turn Juanny into a combo guard but even at that, you wouldn't truly solve the problem here. 



> If we select Telfair, it sends the message that this team doesnt want to win. He brings nothing to this team. He is a project and you are foolish to think he would be an upgrade over Ollie. PG is one of the most desired positions, it is hard to learn and you expect Telfair to come in with so much he has to learn to even become a decent player to be a decent backup on a playoff team? No..


Telfair is better than Kevin Ollie right now. Most of Telfair's problems are shooting but in terms of passing, he's probably a better passer than any other guard in the draft (or at least neck and neck with them). I don't view Telfair as a Darko-like project. He isn't a starter in the league but could handle back-up minutes right now.



> Anything but Telfair should be the slogan...


I don't agree with that at all. There are much worse things that can happen to this team than taking on Telfair.

For the record, I was against Telfair as of a few weeks ago. Now I am neutral to the idea. Whatever happens, happens. If Telfair is taken, I won't view that as a sign Cleveland is waving the white flag of surrender.


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> 
> 
> Wagner will never be a pure point. This experiment at best can turn Juanny into a combo guard but even at that, you wouldn't truly solve the problem here.


Bobby Jackson isn't a pure point, so I dont know where you were going with your response.



> Telfair is better than Kevin Ollie right now. Most of Telfair's problems are shooting but in terms of passing, he's probably a better passer than any other guard in the draft (or at least neck and neck with them). I don't view Telfair as a Darko-like project. He isn't a starter in the league but could handle back-up minutes right now.


Get serious man...Ollie isn't good, but he could play Telfair ten times and would win nine if not ten out of ten soley on being a veteren. Telfair is short, weak, no jumper and he isnt lightning quick like TJ ford was to make up for it. He could play backup minutes, he couldn't handle it and I definently wouldnt want him to be in a playoff game as our backup. 



> I don't agree with that at all. There are much worse things that can happen to this team than taking on Telfair.
> 
> For the record, I was against Telfair as of a few weeks ago. Now I am neutral to the idea. Whatever happens, happens. If Telfair is taken, I won't view that as a sign Cleveland is waving the white flag of surrender.


The only thing worse than drafting Telfair is not selecting anything at all. He has to be on the bottom of our draft board for the obvious reasons. 

If it came down to drafting him and trading the pick for a second rounder, I'd take my chances with the second rounder. Simply because there are two, maybe three PGs in the second round with more talent than him right now, and if that didnt pan out it is just a second rounder instead of a first round bust.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Cavstalk, what are you basing your opinions on about Telfair?

He shot above 40 percent from 3 point land in high school and at 50 percent overall, while averaging 30 ppg. That's not a bad shooter.

And according to reports his jumpshot has shown nice range in workouts.

His technique is pretty good, with a few minor things that go wrong when he is having an off night.

I think this notion that Telfair is a horrible shooter are BS.

And I would wager he's actually a better shooter than Kevin Ollie. At least from 3 point range.

The reason Telfair is better than Ollie is because he is an excellent passer, has a very mature floor game and knows where the ball is supposed to go.

He's 5-11 supposedly. Which is short, but not bad for a PG. And since most point guards do not post up, it's not even going to be much of a factor. Quickness wise, he's going to be quicker than anyone else currently on the roster, and either he or Nelson are going to be the quickest points out of this draft.

I'll be interested to see what happened with his workout.

A lot of these same experts that are talking about the flaws with Telfair after several years of nothing but positive things to say, are the same guys who thought Darko should have been the number 1 pick. Or even Melo. Because Lebron was not as ready for the NBA as Darko or Melo. So you'll have to forgive me if I'm not a little skeptical at what appears to be buyer's remorse. Telfair got overhyped for awhile, and now there is a serious overcorrection of his value, resulting in him getting very undervalued right now.

While meanwhile Shaun Livingston, a worse shooting, slower, frail bodied, point guard is the darling of everybody's mock, with no word yet on any of his workouts...color me suspicious.

The kid I watched in the Mcdonald's and Hoops Summit games, is the most NBA ready out of all of the high schoolers, and appears to have the mental approach to be a special player...and those are the same two games that a lot of people are basing their negative opinions of Telfair off of, because he shot poorly and didn't try to score in them. But he clearly controlled the flow of the game in a way that only Jason Kidd is controlling the flow right now in the pros. He slowed the game up when it needed to be slowed up, he ran the break when it needed to be ran, and he gave the ball to all the right guys in the right places for them to succeed.

And since then, he's only gone off to work even harder on his game. This is a kid who wants to be great. This is a rare opportunity for the Cavs not seen since the Magic were able to grab Penny and Shaq. They can grab another terrific young player with a great head on his shoulders and a mature game to match just a year after Lebron.

That said, the only way I'll realy be disapointed with the Cavs is if they draft Childress. He's the trajan langdon pick of this year's draft.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CavsTalk</b>!
> Bobby Jackson isn't a pure point, so I dont know where you were going with your response.


When Bobby needs to, he can be a pure point on occasions. Bobby is far more of a point than Wagner will ever be, barring a miracle (Wagner would have to change his entire mindset as a player).



> Get serious man...Ollie isn't good, but he could play Telfair ten times and would win nine if not ten out of ten soley on being a veteren. Telfair is short, weak, no jumper and he isnt lightning quick like TJ ford was to make up for it. He could play backup minutes, he couldn't handle it and I definently wouldnt want him to be in a playoff game as our backup.


Are you trying to say Ollie would beat Telfair one-on-one? That's crazy. Telfair once beat Marbury one-on-one and in NYC tournaments with NBA players, showed he was the best player on the court. Ollie isn't exactly a shooter either but at least Telfair can push the tempo at a quick pace and distribute the ball with good court vision. Things Ollie can't do (notice how bad the team plays whenever Ollie comes into the game). Telfair isn't Ford quick but he's still very fast.



> The only thing worse than drafting Telfair is not selecting anything at all. He has to be on the bottom of our draft board for the obvious reasons.


I wouldn't go that far.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> That said, the only way I'll realy be disapointed with the Cavs is if they draft Childress. He's the trajan langdon pick of this year's draft.


What do you base that observation on?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> 
> 
> What do you base that observation on?


His play at Stanford. He routinely underachieved, and I just really hate his body language on the court. He oftentimes just doesn't seem "with it".

When I'm looking at young players and projecting them, body language is a big deal for me, that's why I liked Lebron, why I like Telfair...and why I don't like Childress.

Luke Jackson also has good body language on the court. He's out there and he knows he is the ****. That type of confidence will take you a long ways in the league.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> His play at Stanford. He routinely underachieved, and I just really hate his body language on the court. He oftentimes just doesn't seem "with it".
> ...


ok... fair enough.


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