# Bargnani to only play for Raptors.



## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

> The Raptors let go former Purdue coach Gene Keady. It's part of a shakeup under new general manager Bryan Colangelo. Mauricio Gherardini, an executive with Benetton Treviso of the top league in Italy, was added as assistant general manager. That's expected to help the Raptors get Bargnani, who played for Benetton. The talk is Bargnani's camp will put out word he could return to Europe--like Orlando pick Fran Vasquez did last year--if he's not a Raptors pick. That should scare off the top teams. The new Toronto philosophy is said to be to extend Bosh (he says he wants to return) and then concentrate on international players more comfortable playing in Canada.



http://www.hoopshype.com/draft_rumors.htm 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-0605220024may22,1,5801649.column?page=2&coll=cs-bulls-navigation


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

But do the raptors need another power forward


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Didn't they already extend Bosh?


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## belgian (Feb 21, 2004)

Imagine the mismatches a frontcourt of Bosh-Bargnani-Villanueva will create.


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

belgian said:


> Imagine the mismatches a frontcourt of Bosh-Bargnani-Villanueva will create.


That's what I was thinking. How do you guard that? All three guys can score from anywhere on the court.

Actually Bryan wants to build more of a Euroleauge style team meaning we don't need a true center. Besides seeing how the Phoeinx Suns got by with Boris Diaw playing center running the floor, I'm pretty sure we can get by with Andrea Bargnani. Small ball is the future of the leauge with the rule changes.

Besdies he wants to play here which is a rareity for guys in the draft (Although afterwards most fall in love with the city like Bosh, Villaueva, Mo and Jalen). I'd much rather draft the BPA available who wants to play here who can potenially fit in nicely then reach for a center or point guard who's less talented and dreaming of that year they can bolt for some sun and sand.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

didnt that article get started in the chicago tribune, that would make me question it right there. i also think its a bit of a stretch to say the kid would only want to play for the (lowly)raptors. i would think the raptors are going to have to get into the top 3 to get him,which is entirely possible. the thing about their frontline there is what do you do with villanueva, bargnani and bosh could certainly work together but where does charlie fit in. i would be curious to see how this thing plays out.


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

rainman said:


> didnt that article get started in the chicago tribune, that would make me question it right there. i also think its a bit of a stretch to say the kid would only want to play for the (lowly)raptors. i would think the raptors are going to have to get into the top 3 to get him,which is entirely possible. the thing about their frontline there is what do you do with villanueva, bargnani and bosh could certainly work together but where does charlie fit in. i would be curious to see how this thing plays out.


He'd want to play here because the man who discovered him and gave him a chance at Benneton Treviso is now our assistant GM. Not only that but Toronto is an culturaly diverse city that international players enjoy because it reminds them of home. Also Toronto is now employing a more European stlye perimeter oriented offense that he would thrive in.

Offensively the Bosh, Bargnani, Charlie froncourt is scary. Andrea would play the one, Bosh the four and Charlie the three.


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## NBADraftWorld (Apr 16, 2006)

The mismatches that this would create would make teams dizzy. They don't really need a power forward, but there's never a problem with too much talent on an NBA roster. This clearly throws a snag in things though.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

gimmics only get you so far, they would probably be better off there trying to get an adam morrison and not disrupt the forward position.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

They don't need Bargnani, who isn't better than Bosh or Villanueva. When in doubt take someone else (because I don't think he's the BPA).


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

If this is true Bargnani is an idiot, a player nor his camp should never make these types of comments because they could comeback to hurt them.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HKF said:


> They don't need Bargnani, who isn't better than Bosh or Villanueva. When in doubt take someone else (because I don't think he's the BPA).


his isnt better than bosh or charlie, did you see that in your crystal ball?


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

rainman said:


> his isnt better than bosh or charlie, did you see that in your crystal ball?


i don't think you need a crystal ball to say that a player with 0 games played in the NBA will not be as good as an NBA All-Star.


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

Wether or not how some people who fell he dose not fit in the traditional frame of a team dose not really mater to me. Bryan Colangelo dose not build typical teams, sees players and basketball players not positions and understands how to build winning teams. He wants Bargnani, he's said it in interviews. He loves his game and loves his upside and said he'll draft him if he's available. I'm not going to be a complete idiot and argue with somebody with the basketball mind of that caliber by saying Toronto dose not need Bargnani and it's a waste of a pick.

Oh yeah I forogt those were the same poeple saying Charlie was a waste last year too becasue he was a "power forward".


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

atcq1989 said:


> i don't think you need a crystal ball to say that a player with 0 games played in the NBA will not be as good as an NBA All-Star.



i was referring to villanueva. you want to rethink that statement about guys who arent in the league yet(greg oden,oj mayo,kevin durant.......)


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

"Sees players, and not basketball positions.."

Where have I heard that before? 

It doesn't work.


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

rainman said:


> i was referring to villanueva. you want to rethink that statement about guys who arent in the league yet(greg oden,oj mayo,kevin durant.......)


i'm not sure if you were asking me a question, but if you were, my answer is no. no matter how much people wanna hype prospects, 999 times out of 1000 i would take a proven NBA All-Star over a high school/euro/college player.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

NBADraftWorld said:


> but there's never a problem with too much talent on an NBA roster.


I beg to differ. Remember the '04 Lakers? Malone, Bryant, Shaq, Payton? Stacked but there were far too many problems with egos, etc.. You can always have a problem with too much talent, it's rare that you don't. The Pistons would be the only example in recent memory of a stacked team which managed to coexist.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

atcq1989 said:


> i'm not sure if you were asking me a question, but if you were, my answer is no. no matter how much people wanna hype prospects, 999 times out of 1000 i would take a proven NBA All-Star over a high school/euro/college player.


Classic case to back that up, Elton Brand/Tyson Chandler. Give me Elton then, now and in 5 years too.


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## matt! (Feb 21, 2005)

Damn you, Eli Manning.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Damn you, John Elway.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

same thing said to chicago this story is bull****.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

if he has some kind of leverage wouldnt he say i'll only play for the spurs or with lebron...... if i have leverage toronto wouldnt be at the top of my list of teams to play for.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

Colangelo has his heart set on Bargnani and Aldridge


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Bargnani's representation is stupid. If I think he's the best player available, I'm going to take him. You ever want to play in the NBA, Andrea, then let's sign a contract. I would NEVER trade his rights either, that's just not how things work.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

I doubt the veracity of the source, but if bargnani’s there when the raps pick it’s a no brainer to select him.

I personally think the raptors should do everything they can to trade up (assuming they don’t win the lotto) and draft Aldridge. A Villa-Bosh-Lamarcus frontcourt would be dope.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

I'll be glad to see the Raptors draft this guy if it means Rudy Gay or Brandon Roy will slide down to Houston's pick.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

brandon roy would be a perfect fit for the rockets


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Colangelo is the same guy that got Amare to shut his workouts down. If this is his guy, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I have not taken the time to watch his videos yet but if he is as good as rumored, I would select him. I have no faith in Aldridge being anything but decent. I like Morrison's attitude though, however, I think he goes to Portland.


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## KB21 (Jun 20, 2003)

TheATLien said:


> "Sees players, and not basketball positions.."
> 
> Where have I heard that before?
> 
> It doesn't work.


Phoenix and Dallas are proving that it does work.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Nimreitz said:


> Bargnani's representation is stupid. If I think he's the best player available, I'm going to take him. You ever want to play in the NBA, Andrea, then let's sign a contract. I would NEVER trade his rights either, that's just not how things work.


Ask Orlando how that's going. No team will spend a top 5 pick to play hard-***. What's the alternantive? Play at home for good money on one of the best Euro teams. It's not like he's in Siberia cold and broke.

You go tell your owner you had a chance to pick a top 3 player to improve your team, but instead you tried for the holdout, you knew would holdout because you had him rated best.

As for why he wants to play in Chicago or Toronto, why did Joachim Noah, a guaranteed top 3 pick return to Florida? Answer: There is more to life than playing with a superstar. Lifestyle counts for those that can afford to think that way.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

KB21 said:


> Phoenix and Dallas are proving that it does work.


Detroit's done pretty well without a pure centre and a PG who some have argued is not a true PG.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Ask Orlando how that's going. No team will spend a top 5 pick to play hard-***. What's the alternantive? Play at home for good money on one of the best Euro teams. It's not like he's in Siberia cold and broke.
> 
> You go tell your owner you had a chance to pick a top 3 player to improve your team, but instead you tried for the holdout, you knew would holdout because you had him rated best.
> 
> As for why he wants to play in Chicago or Toronto, why did Joachim Noah, a guaranteed top 3 pick return to Florida? Answer: There is more to life than playing with a superstar. Lifestyle counts for those that can afford to think that way.


What? When my owner asks why I did it I have a two part answer: 1) No other player has as much value and the risk is worth it 2) You entrusted me with this job, so let me to it

This is a weak draft and Bargnani is as good a bet as anyone in it to be a star. In fact, he probably has the highest star potential of anyone in the draft. In addition, there's a reason why he came out now, because he doesn't want to stay in Europe. I haven't heard anything about a potential buyout problem, so that's probably in order, and as a budding star he wants to further his career. You do that in the NBA. As far as I understand it, draft rights are ad infinitum. If he EVER wants to play in the NBA, he will come over.

And honestly, there really isn't a top 5 team this year that is going to be altered by a top 5 pick in a substantial way. It's not the worst thing in the world for him to stay in Europe for a year to realize you're serious, and then combine with your core and another top 5 pick next year, in what appears to be very good at the top.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Nimreitz said:


> What? When my owner asks why I did it I have a two part answer: 1) No other player has as much value and the risk is worth it 2) You entrusted me with this job, so let me to it
> 
> This is a weak draft and Bargnani is as good a bet as anyone in it to be a star. In fact, he probably has the highest star potential of anyone in the draft. In addition, there's a reason why he came out now, because he doesn't want to stay in Europe. I haven't heard anything about a potential buyout problem, so that's probably in order, and as a budding star he wants to further his career. You do that in the NBA. As far as I understand it, draft rights are ad infinitum. If he EVER wants to play in the NBA, he will come over.
> 
> And honestly, there really isn't a top 5 team this year that is going to be altered by a top 5 pick in a substantial way. It's not the worst thing in the world for him to stay in Europe for a year to realize you're serious, and then combine with your core and another top 5 pick next year, in what appears to be very good at the top.



I concede if he wants to play that badly you are right. But if that was the case, why would this even arise as an issue?

If you pick him all of a sudden your market for him is two teams.

Would ATL take him and let him sit? Would CHA take him and let him sit? Would PDX take him and let him sit? All those teams need help now and any one of Aldridge, TT, AM and RG or even BR would be more beneficial than taking a risk on a holdout.

I admire your position, but look at Steve Francis and Vancouver, they got jobbed.

As for your answer I agree with you, some owner might understand, others wouldn't.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

this all depends on the situation. steve francis held out on draft day , acted like a punk and the grizz were FORCED into trading him . now look at andrea, hes done it completely differently . IF AT ALL . its still speculation. but look at how adrea has done it, hes not screwing any other teams over, hes not getting drafted by a team and then saying TRADE ME . no . andrea may just be letting people know that toronto i the destination he wants. thats fair. hes taking as much of a risk as anyone. if the top 4 pass on him , and the raptors choose someone other than bargani , hes screwed out of the top 5. its not like the francis situation where he let the team draft him and then forced them into a crappy position. this is just andrea letting people know that he wants to come to toronto, even before the draft. hes taking as much of a risk as anyone putting himself in the hands of the raptor organization if he chooses not to work out for anyone. but agian , this is nothing like the franchise fiasco


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

rainman said:


> i was referring to villanueva. you want to rethink that statement about guys who arent in the league yet(greg oden,oj mayo,kevin durant.......)


Dude all you had to say was Greg Oden, :biggrin: .


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

l2owen said:


> this all depends on the situation. steve francis held out on draft day , acted like a punk and the grizz were FORCED into trading him . now look at andrea, hes done it completely differently . IF AT ALL . its still speculation. but look at how adrea has done it, hes not screwing any other teams over, hes not getting drafted by a team and then saying TRADE ME . no . andrea may just be letting people know that toronto i the destination he wants. thats fair. hes taking as much of a risk as anyone. if the top 4 pass on him , and the raptors choose someone other than bargani , hes screwed out of the top 5. its not like the francis situation where he let the team draft him and then forced them into a crappy position. this is just andrea letting people know that he wants to come to toronto, even before the draft. hes taking as much of a risk as anyone putting himself in the hands of the raptor organization if he chooses not to work out for anyone. but agian , this is nothing like the franchise fiasco


Francis did act like a punk on DD, but he said before-hand that he did not want to go. Sorry. Facts wrong. The grizz tried to make it work. They should have just gone with Odom who wanted to play there.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Francis did act like a punk on DD, but he said before-hand that he did not want to go. Sorry. Facts wrong. The grizz tried to make it work. They should have just gone with Odom who wanted to play there.


well then its their own fault for drafting him when he said he didnt want to go there? and if he clearly came out saying he didnt want the grizz to draft him before the draft, i have never read an article about it . could you please provide an article that has francis saying he didnt want to come to vancouver before draft day? either way its a situation where barganis is letting people know early what he wants to do and where he wants to go , and isnt the same selfish ego driven dude as francis was when he came out of maryland.


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

l2owen said:


> well then its their own fault for drafting him when he said he didnt want to go there? and if he clearly came out saying he didnt want the grizz to draft him before the draft, i have never read an article about it . could you please provide an article that has francis saying he didnt want to come to vancouver before draft day? either way its a situation where barganis is letting people know early what he wants to do and where he wants to go , and isnt the same selfish ego driven dude as francis was when he came out of maryland.


if you know so much about NBA draft history, i am very shocked that you don't know that francis publicly said he didn't want to go to Vancouver. it is fairly common knowledge.


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

cv3bandwagon said:


> He'd want to play here because the man who discovered him and gave him a chance at Benneton Treviso is now our assistant GM. Not only that but Toronto is an culturaly diverse city that international players enjoy because it reminds them of home. Also Toronto is now employing a more European stlye perimeter oriented offense that he would thrive in.
> 
> Offensively the Bosh, Bargnani, Charlie froncourt is scary. Andrea would play the one, Bosh the four and Charlie the three.



Toronto may be a culturally diverse city, but it sure as hell won't remind him of his hometown, Rome, Italy. 

And Bargnani won't be able to play point guard on offense, at least not now, his handles just aren't good enough. His best offensive position, considering his current skill-set, is small forward. 

Could the Raps go with a lineup of. . . 

height projected weight current age

PG-Mike James 6'2" 200 31 
SG-Joey Graham 6'6" 225 24 
F-Andrea Bargnani 7'0" 245 20
F-Charlie Villanueva 6'10" 245 21
F-Chris Bosh 6'11" 240 22 
. . . ?

that's a matchup nightmare, three very very similar players in the frontcourt, shooting perimeter jumpers, moving, passing, posting, a treat to watch. They're also young, besides James. Their point guard of the future, though, is a 21 year old 6'5" Croat playing in Spain, Roko Leni-Ukic. That's a darn good team.


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

alex said:


> *Toronto may be a culturally diverse city, but it sure as hell won't remind him of his hometown, Rome, Italy. *
> And Bargnani won't be able to play point guard on offense, at least not now, his handles just aren't good enough. His best offensive position, considering his current skill-set, is small forward.
> 
> Could the Raps go with a lineup of. . .
> ...


maybe not, but as of 2001 there were 429,380 italian-canadians in the greater toronto area. you could not speak english and live very comfortably in this city.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Every major city is culturally diverse nowadays


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> Every major city is culturally diverse nowadays


indeed. some more than others.


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

atcq1989 said:


> maybe not, but as of 2001 there were 429,380 italian-canadians in the greater toronto area. you could not speak english and live very comfortably in this city.



Can those Italian-Canadians speak Italian (actual Italian, not a dialect)? If they're second or third generation--and I bet most are--then probably not. So they'd just be several dark-skinned, eyed, and haired people with last names ending in a vowel . . . that's not very "comfortable". 

But anyhow, that is an impressive number of Italo-Candians. I wish Milwaukee to be more like that.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

atcq1989 said:


> if you know so much about NBA draft history, i am very shocked that you don't know that francis publicly said he didn't want to go to Vancouver. it is fairly common knowledge.


im shocked you cant find a single article with francis saying he doesnt wana be drafted by vancouver before the actual draft? im not saying it didnt happen ^^. and no its not common knowledge because then a commoner like me would know  ^^


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

alex said:


> Toronto may be a culturally diverse city, but it sure as hell won't remind him of his hometown, Rome, Italy.
> 
> And Bargnani won't be able to play point guard on offense, at least not now, his handles just aren't good enough. His best offensive position, considering his current skill-set, is small forward.
> 
> ...


Last time I checked, you have to guard people too. Bargnani will get eaten alive by LeBron James, Richard Jefferson, Andres Nocioni, Kobe, etc. So would Villanueva, so would Bosh. You put your 5 best players on the floor but you put the 5 best guys who can score and play defense on the other guy. Unless, you are the Phoenix Suns and can shoot the three, you need a diverse lineup. Not 3 guys who do the same thing.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

T.Shock said:


> Last time I checked, you have to guard people too. Bargnani will get eaten alive by LeBron James, Richard Jefferson, Andres Nocioni, Kobe, etc. So would Villanueva, so would Bosh. You put your 5 best players on the floor but you put the 5 best guys who can score and play defense on the other guy. Unless, you are the Phoenix Suns and can shoot the three, you need a diverse lineup. Not 3 guys who do the same thing.


uuh how many people DONT GET EATEN alive by lebron james? richard jefferson? kobe? that would apply to anyone in the league. last time i checked even the national champions couldnt stop lebron. he took the to game 7. bargani along with 99% of the nba are incapable of stopping "the king" , along with kobe "the black mumba " bryant, as well as jefferson. come on


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

alex said:


> Toronto may be a culturally diverse city, but it sure as hell won't remind him of his hometown, Rome, Italy.
> 
> And Bargnani won't be able to play point guard on offense, at least not now, his handles just aren't good enough. His best offensive position, considering his current skill-set, is small forward.
> 
> ...


Here's a question. What city IN the NBA WOULD best suit an Italian player? Let me tell you, if your answer is anthying but Toronto, you are wrong. 

As a cultural force Italians are essentially #1 closely followed by Chinese. And these aren't NY Italians, or Wisconsin Italians. USA #1 Italians. These are Italian Canadians that wish they were Italian. I don't want to argue with you, I actually wish these people were more melting pot than mosaic. But of the 30 teams, more people in this city speak Italian as a first or second language than any other city.

As for the 3 comment from elsewhere, CV and AB can both shoot it.


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

T.Shock said:


> Last time I checked, you have to guard people too. Bargnani will get eaten alive by LeBron James, Richard Jefferson, Andres Nocioni, Kobe, etc. So would Villanueva, so would Bosh. You put your 5 best players on the floor but you put the 5 best guys who can score and play defense on the other guy. Unless, you are the Phoenix Suns and can shoot the three, you need a diverse lineup. Not 3 guys who do the same thing.


similar=similar versatility, similar size, similar in that they have perimeter skills in a post body, and similar match-up difficulties. And they would create tremendous problems, especially at small forward and center. 

They are three long players, and since the rules have been changed, they could play a zone defense that would use their length and quickness. I don't see this as a weakness. 

Bargnani has three point range, Villanueva and Bosh have fairly good range as well. That shouldn't be too much of a problem either.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Here's a question. What city IN the NBA WOULD best suit an Italian player? Let me tell you, if your answer is anthying but Toronto, you are wrong.
> 
> As a cultural force Italians are essentially #1 closely followed by Chinese. And these aren't NY Italians, or Wisconsin Italians. USA #1 Italians. These are Italian Canadians that wish they were Italian. I don't want to argue with you, I actually wish these people were more melting pot than mosaic. But of the 30 teams, more people in this city speak Italian as a first or second language than any other city.
> 
> As for the 3 comment from elsewhere, CV and AB can both shoot it.



did you ever find that article about francis saying he didnt wana be in 'couver before the draft?


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Here's a question. What city IN the NBA WOULD best suit an Italian player? Let me tell you, if your answer is anthying but Toronto, you are wrong.
> 
> As a cultural force Italians are essentially #1 closely followed by Chinese. And these aren't NY Italians, or Wisconsin Italians. USA #1 Italians. These are Italian Canadians that wish they were Italian. I don't want to argue with you, I actually wish these people were more melting pot than mosaic. But of the 30 teams, more people in this city speak Italian as a first or second language than any other city.



Really? That's actually very interesting. So, they're not "hurray for me! I'm Italian, but know nothing about Italy!" Italian, they try to preserve the culture. . . nice. I believe ya, don't worry. But it's far too cold for him in Canada. I hear polar bears roam around there. He'd be better off in Milwaukee, with me and all the first and second generation Italians that live in the neighborhood. Oh, and playing for the Bucks  

Anyhow, I'll probably buy his jersy no matter where he goes, even dirty dirty Toronto.

:biggrin:


edit--I was joking with the polar bear comment . . .


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

T.Shock said:


> Last time I checked, you have to guard people too. Bargnani will get eaten alive by LeBron James, Richard Jefferson, Andres Nocioni, Kobe, etc. So would Villanueva, so would Bosh. You put your 5 best players on the floor but you put the 5 best guys who can score and play defense on the other guy. Unless, you are the Phoenix Suns and can shoot the three, you need a diverse lineup. Not 3 guys who do the same thing.


so Matt Bonner>them on Defense?


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

alex said:


> Can those Italian-Canadians speak Italian (actual Italian, not a dialect)? If they're second or third generation--and I bet most are--then probably not. So they'd just be several dark-skinned, eyed, and haired people with last names ending in a vowel . . . that's not very "comfortable".
> 
> But anyhow, that is an impressive number of Italo-Candians. I wish Milwaukee to be more like that.


according to the same census, 200,000 people out of those 429,380 were *first* language italians. so atleast 200,000 can speak italian, and i'm fairly certain a good chunk of the other 229,380 can speak italian as well. good question.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

l2owen said:


> did you ever find that article about francis saying he didnt wana be in 'couver before the draft?


I'm backing BUTR on this. Everyone knew before the draft that Francis didn't want to play in Vancouver, Stu Jackson made another classic boner move as GM. No one is going to spend the time finding the article because it is widely known by most fans of the NBA, especially Canadian fans.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

interesting ill have to take your word for it mao.


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

l2owen said:


> interesting ill have to take your word for it mao.


thats an interesting sentiment, coming from a person who sent me 8 PM's telling me to "prove it" when i told him francis didn't want to play in van city. i see you mature quickly.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

atcq1989 said:


> thats an interesting sentiment, coming from a person who sent me 8 PM's telling me to "prove it" when i told him francis didn't want to play in van city. i see you mature quickly.


huh who are you ? dont try to compare your credibility with the great mao  ill take his word over yours anyday


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

l2owen said:


> huh who are you ? dont try to compare your credibility with the great mao  ill take his word over yours anyday


oh. so it wasn't you who sent me 8 PM's questioning my credibility and telling me i was making myself look foolish for telling you francis made it known he didn't want to be in vancouver? that's interesting. but don't worry, keep playing it off for nothing when i bring it up in a forum. i won't tell anybody how irate you were at me for telling you francis said what he did.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

atcq1989 said:


> oh. so it wasn't you who sent me 8 PM's questioning my credibility and telling me i was making myself look foolish for telling you francis made it known he didn't want to be in vancouver? that's interesting. but don't worry, keep playing it off for nothing when i bring it up in a forum. i won't tell anybody how irate you were at me for telling you francis said what he did.


not really , maos arguments are intelligent and he proves good points in his posts. your argument for proving francis didnt want to come to vancouver was telling me you had an english major and that i was in grade 7.. reading your other posts they arent that bright either.... um yeah so yeah ill respect maos word/opinion/what he has to say over you any day.


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

l2owen said:


> not really , maos arguments are intelligent and he proves good points in his posts. your argument for proving francis didnt want to come to vancouver was telling me you had an english major and that i was in grade 7.. reading your other posts they arent that bright either.... um yeah so yeah ill respect maos word/opinion/what he has to say over you any day.


umm.. it was? i thought that i was telling you that you weren't old enough to remember what francis had said. after that i thought you told me i sounded like a fool and that i had "obviously never written an essay". then i thought i told you i am an english major in uni, so i had probably written essays. i don't think i ever belittled you by comparing my education to yours, because it is inconsequential when it comes to basketball. what is consequential however, is that i am old enough to remember francis' comments, and you aren't. 

also as a side note, i would love to see mao's argument that convinced you francis didn't want to play in vancouver. was it a compelling argument, or was it that you never disagreed with him in the first place and just took his word because you are buttering him up? 

you are a confusing man to follow.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

atcq1989 said:


> umm.. it was? i thought that i was telling you that you weren't old enough to remember what francis had said. after that i thought you told me i sounded like a fool and that i had "obviously never written an essay". then i thought i told you i am an english major in uni, so i had probably written essays. i don't think i ever belittled you by comparing my education to yours, because it is inconsequential when it comes to basketball. what is consequential however, is that i am old enough to remember francis' comments, and you aren't.
> 
> also as a side note, i would love to see mao's argument that convinced you francis didn't want to play in vancouver. was it a compelling argument, or was it that you never disagreed with him in the first place and just took his word because you are buttering him up?
> 
> you are a confusing man to follow.



not really please post your first responose . or i can do it for you. in there you told me that i was from grade 7, and that you knew more than me because i wasnt around. even though you have no idea how old i am. without even a single time trying to prove your argument about the original post. thats ignorance at its best. posters like you who can not defend their arguments attack other posters and try to degrade their integrity. i have 0 respect for you, your opinions, and your knowledge. period. your posts lack quality and your arguments are backed up by personal attacks. i will take mao's word over yours 100/100 times. get real, your opinion is worth nothing to me.


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

l2owen said:


> not really please post your first responose . or i can do it for you. in there you told me that i was from grade 7, and that you knew more than me because i wasnt around. even though you have no idea how old i am. without even a single time trying to prove your argument about the original post. thats ignorance at its best. posters like you who can not defend their arguments attack other posters and try to degrade their integrity. i have 0 respect for you, your opinions, and your knowledge. period. your posts lack quality and your arguments are backed up by personal attacks. i will take mao's word over yours 100/100 times. get real, your opinion is worth nothing to me.


was i wrong? and you don't understand my fundamental argument. you are young so you WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN WHAT FRANCIS SAID OR DIDN'T SAY. i am not calling you "young" and implying that you don't know anything because you are young. i am saying you don't know what francis said or didn't say first hand because you aren't old enough to remember. and you can hop on mao's jock all day long, i don't know mao. the fact that you value mao's opinion over mine means nothing to me. i really don't care one way or the other what you think. and you can not justify not listening to me by saying " i dont care about your opinion". our original argument was not a matter of opinion. steve francis DID say that he did not want to be in vancouver, prior to the draft. that is not open for interpretation. it happened. opinion has nothing to do with it.

my argument was never based on personal attacks, i'm not sure where you cooked that up. 

that is all i have to say. you can quote things i have said, question the quality of my posts, question my intelligence, whatever. i'm finished with this. i was right. even though you know this, you still take cheap shots at me. grow up.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

atcq1989 said:


> was i wrong? and you don't understand my fundamental argument. you are young so you WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN WHAT FRANCIS SAID OR DIDN'T SAY. i am not calling you "young" and implying that you don't know anything because you are young. i am saying you don't know what francis said or didn't say first hand because you aren't old enough to remember. and you can hop on mao's jock all day long, i don't know mao. the fact that you value mao's opinion over mine means nothing to me. i really don't care one way or the other what you think. and you can not justify not listening to me by saying " i dont care about your opinion". our original argument was not a matter of opinion. steve francis DID say that he did not want to be in vancouver, prior to the draft. that is not open for interpretation. it happened. opinion has nothing to do with it.
> 
> my argument was never based on personal attacks, i'm not sure where you cooked that up.
> 
> that is all i have to say. you can quote things i have said, question the quality of my posts, question my intelligence, whatever. i'm finished with this. i was right. even though you know this, you still take cheap shots at me. grow up.



dude the only person taking cheapshots was you in your responses telling me in from grade seven, im arrogant , and that you have an english major LOL . here is a quote directly from you. 

"
it is futile arguing with a child. unless you read my response and give me a response that has something to do with what i said ......i know that as a childish elementary schooler, you might think "oh yay! i beat him in an argument!". have fun with that. maturity will hit you soon enough.
"

heres another quote from you 

"we know what we are talking about. you don't. " - talk about arrogant

um in that single post you managed to insult my maturity and take 3 cheap shots in one paragraph. i have about 8 more paragraphs of you making ugly statements about my age and intelligence, and not a single one of you trying to find proof for your argument. i do not respect you. you attack other individuals when you can not prove your own point. i do not respect you. i have another 10 quotes of you degrading my intelligence but i will not post it. im done with you. you are not a respectable poster. you attack the intelligence of others when you can not back up your own arguments. period. you arent worth respect.


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

ok. i know i said i was finished. i am eating my own words somewhat here and perhaps making an *** of myself but i must post one more thing.

it irks me that you try to embarrass me the way you are. you are taking quotes completely out of context and posting them to make me look stupid. please stop. i stand behind everything i said, and if you are going to use my quotes as part of your argument, please use them correctly. i was rude to you in certain things i said, but that was only after you had questioned by intelligence, told me i was a fool, and refused to acknowledge any part of my argument (which turned out to be a correct argument). 

you are not impressing anyone on this board, least of all your beloved mao (whom i'm not sure even knows who you are), by trying to roast me using irrelevant "evidence".


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

KB21 said:


> Phoenix and Dallas are proving that it does work.


As w/ most equations involving people... sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.


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## Guest (May 24, 2006)

Bargnani will be #1 by the Raptors. 

He really is exceedingly similar to Dirk. It's almost eerie.

None of the college boys are in his class as an NBA prospect.

Although I think Sheldon Williams is the sleeper of the draft. (Has anyone else compared his last season to Emeka Okafor's?)


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

l2owen said:


> did you ever find that article about francis saying he didnt wana be in 'couver before the draft?


Damn, there's a special "behind the story" documentary type show about Francis and I'm pretty sure it he said he made it known that he didn't want to play in BC.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

shookem said:


> Damn, there's a special "behind the story" documentary type show about Francis and I'm pretty sure it he said he made it known that he didn't want to play in BC.


At first glance, I construed this as Torin Francis (a local Massachusetts product) not wanting to play for Boston College (he's at Notre Dame).

too eerie.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

atcq1989 said:


> ok. i know i said i was finished. i am eating my own words somewhat here and perhaps making an *** of myself but i must post one more thing.
> 
> it irks me that you try to embarrass me the way you are. you are taking quotes completely out of context and posting them to make me look stupid. please stop. i stand behind everything i said, and if you are going to use my quotes as part of your argument, please use them correctly. i was rude to you in certain things i said, but that was only after you had questioned by intelligence, told me i was a fool, and refused to acknowledge any part of my argument (which turned out to be a correct argument).
> 
> you are not impressing anyone on this board, least of all your beloved mao (whom i'm not sure even knows who you are), by trying to roast me using irrelevant "evidence".


yes try to cover your own insecurities and attack me .. nice try . nothign was taken out of context and everything was posted as is. if you are so righteous post the replies you wrote me yourself and let the other peple judge your tone. ^^. otherwise youre a waste of my time . you are a liar and your first response to my question was calling me arrogant lol. post your first reply to me for everyone to see. you are a low kind of debator. you deserve 0 respect and thats how much you get from me.


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## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

l2owen said:


> yes try to cover your own insecurities and attack me .. nice try . nothign was taken out of context and everything was posted as is. if you are so righteous post the replies you wrote me yourself and let the other peple judge your tone. ^^. otherwise youre a waste of my time . you are a liar and your first response to my question was calling me arrogant lol. post your first reply to me for everyone to see. you are a low kind of debator. you deserve 0 respect and thats how much you get from me.


 Doesn't mean you can't be wrong. And you are.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

So one of the few Euro prospects that gets a lot of PT now wants to call the shots in the draft... should have benched him, lol. Scouts do love single-digit PPG Euro prospects, though.


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