# Not happening



## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

Actually I think the whole notion that the Magic were going to shop T-Mac this summer was totally overblown. No one is going to give the Magic enough to make it worth their while and selling him below his value would be a PR diaster.

Is JJ and Shawn equal value to T-Mac? Possibly, but the Suns cannot afford to lose both because they simply don't have the depth. One Floriday paper describe the deal as "win - win" (a sure sign the Suns are giving up too much), but then talked of a backcourt of Barbosa and Jacobsen!


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

The T-Mac situation is a wait-game. The longer the wait, the lower his trade value would be. If the Magic gets a high pick and picked up some good talents that help them win games; if they can convinced, with their newly added talents as selling points, TMac that there's a future in Orlando, TMac may stay afterall. But if the Magic failed to land one impact player in the summer, if the team keeps losing the way they did, then TMac is gone.

I think the rumored Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, a first-round pick for TMac is indeed a win-win. The Suns lost a little depth while adding a premier talent. The backcourt of Barboso-TMac is indeed scary, not to mention the Suns may still have some cap room to add a talented guard like Steve Nash.

For the Magic, they get good core players who need time to develop (Johnson, the first pick). None of them may never approach TMac's status but they all have potential to become solid second, third-fiddles on a championship team.

I think the trade-talk will get serious once the FA period begins, even more if the Magic failed to land at least one player who can contribute immediately after first 30 ~ 45-day of free agency.


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Everything depends on T-Mac. If they know they're going to lose him, better to lose him for an all-star small forward and a mid-lotto pick than nothing. The question is if Phoenix will be willing to give up Johnson as well, because another team might come up with a better offer than Marion and a #1..

But on the trade itself, if you thought this team was bad defensively before, imagine trading our best man defender and best team defender for McGrady. A lineup that includes Jacobsen, McGrady, Amare, and Lampe (or McDyess, but then to a lesser extent) would be an absolute disaster on the defensive end.


----------



## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> Everything depends on T-Mac. If they know they're going to lose him, better to lose him for an all-star small forward and a mid-lotto pick than nothing. The question is if Phoenix will be willing to give up Johnson as well, because another team might come up with a better offer than Marion and a #1..
> 
> But on the trade itself, if you thought this team was bad defensively before, imagine trading our best man defender and best team defender for McGrady. A lineup that includes Jacobsen, McGrady, Amare, and Lampe (or McDyess, but then to a lesser extent) would be an absolute disaster on the defensive end.


I agree. The addition of a superstar to a deep, well established team can be enough to put the team over the top. But on a team with little depth and the risk is to have a team that score but do little else (think Boston with Pierce and Walker).


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

The point is: When you get a chance to take a superstar without giving up all of your core players, you go for it and worry about the chemistry later. TMac himself isn't a bad defender, Barboso and Carbakaba (spell?) have the built to become solid defenders, Amare definitely has the tools. Don't even mentioned Jacobsen because I don't think he will amount to anything more than a nice role player in this league.

This team would be exciting but I agreed will be poor defensively but that's the common problem on all young teams and that's something easier to change - at least easier than getting a super-talent.


----------



## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

Including JJ is a "lose-lose". It would not help the Magic sell the deal to their fans because none of them have ever heard of him. It looks like they gave up a great player for a couple of good ones.

For the Suns, it means weaking an already very weak roster. JJ was playing over 40.6 minutes a game for the season because there was no depth. It was much higher after Penny was traded.

JJ did not play well at the start of the season. Realistically, his style did not blend well with Marbury's. So taking that into account, it is worth comparing his number with those of Richard Hamilton, the offensive star of the Pistons:

Richard Hamilton 
Detroit Pistons 
Position: G-F 
Height: 6-7 Weight: 193 
College: Connecticut '00 
Player file | Team stats 

2003-04 Statistics 
PPG 17.6 
RPG 3.6 
APG 4.0 
SPG 1.32 
BPG .22 
FG% .455 
FT% .868 
3P% .265 
MPG 35.5 

Joe Johnson 
Phoenix Suns 
Position: G-F 
Height: 6-7 Weight: 235 
College: Arkansas '01 
Player file | Team stats 

2003-04 Statistics 
PPG 16.7 
RPG 4.7 
APG 4.4 
SPG 1.13 
BPG .32 
FG% .430 
FT% .750 
3P% .305 
MPG 40.6 

In second half the of the season, JJ brought his shooting average up from 39% to 43% and was shooting 45% for that period. JJ is just emerging as a force, but he plays on a losing team so his trade value is not that high. 

KEEP JJ!


----------



## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

JJS STATS ARE HIGH BECAUSE HE PLAYS LOTS OF MINUTES FOR A BAD TEAM THAT SCORES A LOT. HE WOULDNT PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS ON A GOOD TEAM THAT PLAYS SLOWER BASKETBALL LIKE THE PISTONS.


----------



## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

JJ plays that way because of the team around him. Now he is not the world greatest player, but he's not bad. I think if you can give up some, but not alot to get Tmac I'd do it.


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

There are a lot of players who have good stats on bad teams, that doesn't mean they aren't good players. Shawn Marion did the same or worse this year than he did when we were a better team. Corey Maggette, Elton Brand, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen.. there are lots of good players on not so good teams.


----------



## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>THE COOKIE MONSTER</b>!
> JJS STATS ARE HIGH BECAUSE HE PLAYS LOTS OF MINUTES FOR A BAD TEAM THAT SCORES A LOT. HE WOULDNT PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS ON A GOOD TEAM THAT PLAYS SLOWER BASKETBALL LIKE THE PISTONS.


It is always a struggle trying to compare players in different systems. JJ's numbers went down when Amare came back as JJ had to become more of a point guard than a first options scorer. Hamilton was the Piston's first options scorer with the offense built around him. The Pistons have Sheed, but the Suns have Amare who is one of the top inside scorers in the league.

Hamilton has been in the league a couple years longer than JJ and is an established star. JJ is just coming into his own. 

I think JJ has the potential to be very good, though maybe not an elite level player. At 6'7" 235 is able to overpower many shooting guards and still shoot well enough to keep them honest. He brought his assist level way up and is a very good rebounder for a guard.

Most of all, JJ does have the ability to create his own shot. With more maturity, I think he will be a second tier star.


----------

