# Rodney White Traded



## k^2

Word is to Denver for first rounder. The nuggets sure have an interesting future.


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## Bighead734

where did you hear this?


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO

betere will be a solid center in the NBA, i will put money on that, he was good at the world games, and is very fundamentally sound


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## JNice

I dont see anyone else reporting this.


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## Tri_N

If you're going to report this... Provide a link like I do...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/det/sports/pistons/stories/pistons-168318320020923-210940.html


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## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>Tri_N</b>!
> If you're going to report this... Provide a link like I do...
> 
> http://www.clickondetroit.com/det/sports/pistons/stories/pistons-168318320020923-210940.html


Yeah, aren't you great ...thanks for the link though :cbanana:


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## Petey

I think White can be a solid NBA player... we will just have to see what kind of pick the Nuggest gave up. I know they were not stupid enough to trade a pick form this up coming season as they have a great chance to get #1 pick for Lebron... but I think this works nice for the Nuggests.

-Petey


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## LoaKhoet

It's probably a protected pick. Top 15 or 10 protected.


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## robyg1974

Brilliant trade for the Pistons. This Rodney White guy wasn't going to touch the floor for this veteran Pistons team, and seemingly had already fallen behind Tayshaun Prince on the team's depth chart. The Nuggets figure to be one of the two worst teams in the league next year, so obviously they aren't going to give up a top five 2003 pick for Rodney White. Remember that future Clippers 1st round pick that Denver got in the Don Reid deal with Orlando a month or so ago? My guess is THAT'S the pick that Detroit will be getting in this deal. Which means that Kiki Vandeweghe effectively has traded a 2nd round pick for Rodney White (a 2nd round pick for Don Reid and a 1st round pick; Don Reid and that 1st round pick for Rodney White).

Again, brilliant trade for the Pistons. White will obviously get an opportunity to play major minutes right away for the Nuggets. I am assuming that Juwan Howard starts at PF, so all the SF minutes should go to Rodney White and Nikoloz Tskitishvili. So we'll find out pretty quickly what kind of player this Rodney White kid is or can be.

Bottom line: Rodney White was not going to touch the floor in Detroit, which means that his trade value was only going to go down, so now was the perfect time to trade this dude. One more season on the end of Detroit's bench and this dude's stock would be at rock bottom. Give it up to Joe Dumars, this guy really knows what he's doing.


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## johnston797

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> Give it up to Joe Dumars, this guy really knows what he's doing.


This is sarcasm, right?


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## robyg1974

Johnston 797:

Sarcasm? Absolutely not! How dare you!

So you think Joe Dumars has been doing a lousy job in Detroit? Why do you say that?


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## <<<D>>>

The Nuggs are slowly but surely building towards their future. This was a decent pick-up for them, White will definitley have the PT or atleast some acceptional time to play and improve. They have a very young frontline - Nene, Nikoloz, Bateer, White should play at 3 or maybe interchange at 4??? and hopefully Camby stays healthy for once.

IMO - Detroit had the flexability to make this trade, they're pretty much covered in positions. My guess is that White would'nt get the PT


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## robyg1974

Don Reid is apparently DEFINITELY going to have to be involved in this trade, otherwise the salaries won't match up. RealGM speculated that the Pistons will get Reid, Mengke Bateer (contingent on him agreeing to a league minimum deal), and a 1st round pick (apparently a pick that Denver received from Milwaukee, presumably in that Scott Williams trade) for Rodney White.

The thing is, Don Reid is not eligible to be traded again until the first week of October, so when this trade doesn't happen right away, keep in mind that THAT is the reason WHY.

By the way, neither Reid nor Bateer figure to make the Pistons' 12-man roster, both should be stashed on the IR for the bulk of the season, so let's please not start talking about how either player makes Detroit a better team. Keep in mind that the Pistons acquired THREE active roster-caliber players--Bobby Simmons, Hubert Davis, and Pepe Sanchez--just recently. The Pistons, after this trade, look like this:

Starting lineup

PG Chauncey Billups
SG Richard Hamilton
SF Michael Curry
PF Ben Wallace
C Clifford Robinson

Key reserves: Corliss Williamson, Chucky Atkins, Jon Barry, Zeljko Rebraca, Tayshaun Prince

End of the bench (no PT): Mehmet Okur, Hubert Davis

Stashed on the IR: Bobby Simmons, Pepe Sanchez, Mateen Bateer

Waived (?): Don Reid

All three dudes on the IR SEEMINGLY deserve a spot on a team's 12-man roster. Hell, even Don Reid deserves a better fate than getting waived! So, when this trade goes down, the Pistons may STILL not be done.


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## Pause

i never seen white play at unc charlotte can anyone whos seen him play a few times give me there opinion and scouting report on him?? does he have all star potential?? i know before the draft last year jordan was evne thinking of drafting him first him must at least have real good potential even if he doesnt fulfill it...


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## BCH

The Pistons fawned all over Hubert Davis at the press conference after the trade. How is he going to be relegated to the end of the pine like that?


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## robyg1974

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> The Pistons fawned all over Hubert Davis at the press conference after the trade. How is he going to be relegated to the end of the pine like that?


Well, how is he going to get minutes in this backcourt? Seems like Chauncey Billups and Chucky Atkins get all of yr PG minutes, and that Richard Hamilton and Jon Barry get all of yr SG minutes. He'll play some nights, but he'll get a lot of "DNP-coach's decision"s, too, don't you think?

And, if you're Joe Dumars or Rick Carlisle or whoever at that Rip Hamilton acquisition news conference, and a reporter asks you, "What role do you see Hubert Davis playing on this team?", well, what are you SUPPOSED to say? You're obviously NOT going to say, "We envision him sitting at the end of the bench," you know?

There's what people do, and then there's what people say. Of course, if the Pistons make a deal for Gary Payton involving Jon Barry, I suppose Hubert Davis would be in a good position to receive backup SG minutes. How about this:

Gary Payton & Calvin Booth to the Pistons; Clifford Robinson, Jon Barry, Chucky Atkins, Michael Curry, and the Grizzlies' 2003 1st round pick to the Sonics

The Sonics would get SOMETHING for the disgruntled Payton AND would unload Booth's unwanted longterm contract. The contracts of Robinson and Jon Barry both expire at the end of the 2002-03 season, and Curry's contract expires after the 2003-04 season. The key to the deal for Seattle is obviously that 1st round pick, which should be a top five pick.

The Pistons get their superstar, their go-to guy, "the missing piece of the puzzle." Here's what the Pistons would THEN look like:

Starting lineup

PG Gary Payton (36 minutes/game)
SG Richard Hamilton (36 minutes/game)
SF Corliss Williamson (28 minutes/game)
PF Ben Wallace (36 minutes/game)
C Zeljko Rebraca (20 minutes/game)

Key reserves: Chauncey Billups (24 minutes/game), Tayshaun Prince (16 minutes/game), Mehmet Okur (16 minutes/game), Calvin Booth (16 minutes/game), Hubert Davis (12 minutes/game)

End of the bench (no PT): Bobby Simmons, Pepe Sanchez

Stashed on the IR: Mateen Bateer, Don Reid

That team right there would be MY pick to represent the Eastern Conference in the 2003 NBA Finals, that's for SURE!


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## BCH

RobyG,

Simmons wasn't even at the press conference and I don't even think he was mentioned. The same for the stiffs the Wizards got at their press conference in Varda and Cardinal. The Pistons and Dumars did go out of their way to say Davis was a big part of the reason to do the trade. I am not advocating he plays, I am just saying I find it amusing that a big deal was made over Davis, when no one expected an answer beyond the fact that he was filler, which is what he was in my mind.


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## BigMike

*Wow.*

I can remember all the hype about White goin into draft night, too...rumors of him going #1...(that's actually what draft.net had in their final mock)


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## BCH

The rumors about White going number 1 were started by Jordan to hype him up to possibly get someone to bite and take him over Battier, the player MJ was really targetting. I think he made have been angling to get the 7th pick, either with players or a combiantion of trading down the number 1 and players, and wanted to grab Battier at that spot.

Obviously it didn't happen.


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## robyg1974

> Originally posted by <b>footballfreak</b>!
> I can remember all the hype about White goin into draft night, too...rumors of him going #1...(that's actually what draft.net had in their final mock)


Wow, nbadraft.net had Rodney White going #1 overall in their final mock draft? Hard to believe! Are you being serious? Can somebody back footballfreak up here?


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO

nbadraft.net had kwame in their final mock, but that was hours before the actual draft, for the most part, it was a battle between white and griffin for the #1 spot, white and battier were the most NBA-ready in the lottery that year


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## cloudwlkr

*whose pick is on 1st?*

Bateer is THE MAN in China,arguably outplayed Yao(when he received comperable minutes)in the worlds. I am hearing Joe D might get denvers#1.Kiki wants White,joe could care less.


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## tinygiant

To answer a question that someone had up there, White did look like he had some potential to be a decent player in college. I saw a few of his games and at the time his game reminded me a little of Glenn Robinson's game back when he was at Purdue. A guy who played PF in college, but who had a decent medium range shot and the handle to be able to play SF in the NBA. But, he was hyped a lot, and apparently believed it all and decided to come out to the NBA after just 1 year. It was a bad move. He could still develop into a decent player, but even at UNC Charlotte, it seemed clear to me that there were a number of parts to his game that he needed to refine. I was somewhat surprised that he didn't get a chance to develop at Detroit last year, but I think they did better than they expected and couldn't afford to give him a chance. If he get's a chance in Denver I think that he might eventually become a 16-6-3 guy, but not much more than that. I really don't see All Star in his future.


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## NugzFan

*Re: whose pick is on 1st?*



> Originally posted by <b>cloudwlkr</b>!
> Bateer is THE MAN in China,arguably outplayed Yao(when he received comperable minutes)in the worlds. I am hearing Joe D might get denvers#1.Kiki wants White,joe could care less.


lol - havent you been paying any attention? you are getting the bucks pick!


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## MightyReds2020

I saw on paper today Bobby Simmons just got waived by Pistons. Apparently made room for this trade with Denver.


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## cloudwlkr

*RE:NUGZFAN*

....deal isn't done yet,I simply posted a POSSIBILITY that had been relayed to me via multiple sources. anyone...knows the deal isn't done yet,may not even be done,and could happen....but not the way we expected it to. ....consider the fact that "something for nothing" just doesn't exist ....

Please do not attack other posters. I have edited your comments as best as I could and tried to maintain your argument. If you have any questions please PM me or a board moderator. -BCH


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> 
> Starting lineup
> 
> PG Chauncey Billups
> SG Richard Hamilton
> SF Michael Curry
> PF Ben Wallace
> C Clifford Robinson


Wow and you seriously think this could be the #3 team in the East?

Did Dumars draft White? I cant remember. That really sucks for whoever did. Detroit got basically nothing at all for the #6 pick in the draft.


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## BigMike

*Well, if it wasn't the FINAL mock....*

It was one of them. I remember it perfectly...Jordan was gaga over White....


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## NugzFan

*Re: RE:NUGZFAN*



> Originally posted by <b>cloudwlkr</b>!
> I edited cloudwlkr's post and am removing the personal attacks


please. denial my friend. the deal isnt done...duh. but it has to wait til oct 1st (nba rules).

i dont know what you are hoping for - maybe dumars suddently wakes up and demands skita in the deal and kiki just says yes at the last second or what.

and no i dont think dumars is turning this team around - white wont do that. he might end up helping but if not who gives a crap. didnt cost us much. kiki is the one turning this team around.


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## jvanbusk

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow and you seriously think this could be the #3 team in the East?
> 
> Did Dumars draft White? I cant remember. That really sucks for whoever did. Detroit got basically nothing at all for the #6 pick in the draft.


They are better than last year's #2 team.

Joe Dumars drafted Rodney with the #9 not #6. There is a very good chance that the pick from Denver will be a lottery pick as well. It will probably come from Milwaukee and right now I don't see Milwaukee making the playoffs.

This would give the Pistons 2 lottery picks (including the one from the Grizz) and their own (which would probably be shipped to Sacramento)


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> They are better than last year's #2 team.
> 
> Joe Dumars drafted Rodney with the #9 not #6. There is a very good chance that the pick from Denver will be a lottery pick as well. It will probably come from Milwaukee and right now I don't see Milwaukee making the playoffs.


actually this isnt true at all. the pick we gave up is top 18 protected and lotto protected for a few seasons. so either detroit waits awhile like they did with memphis or they get a mid 1st rounder.


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## jvanbusk

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> actually this isnt true at all. the pick we gave up is top 18 protected and lotto protected for a few seasons. so either detroit waits awhile like they did with memphis or they get a mid 1st rounder.


I obviously could be wrong...but I don't believe the deal is finalized.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> They are better than last year's #2 team.


Better? I dont see how. I think Detroit got worse and many other teams got significantly better.

If Hamilton doesnt have an all-star season, they might not even make the playoffs... at least imo.


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## robyg1974

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> Better? I dont see how. I think Detroit got worse and many other teams got significantly better.
> 
> If Hamilton doesnt have an all-star season, they might not even make the playoffs... at least imo.


... says the person who said 2-3 days ago that Jared Jeffries could be the next Tim Duncan!

Just giving you a hard time, Dee Bo! I couldn't resist!


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## JNice

Thats cool. I said it and I wont back down from saying. Again "could" be, not "will be" ...

Probably just as good a chance that Jeffries becomes as good as Tim Duncan as the Pistons repeating their success of last season.


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## bmckay

*white leaving was a bad move?*

I don't see how him moving could be a bad move for him at all. Sure he might have developed more in college, but even so after the little that he did last year, it's safe to say that even if he stayed another year he would not have gotten picked as high as he did. I realize he didn't get much time, but his stock was based on a lot of hype and youth.


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## cloudwlkr

*Like I've been saying for two days now!!*

TheOaklandPress.com has an article worth reading for those doubting my sources and chalking it up to pure speculation.Let me repeat*DUMARS IS ASKING FOR DENVERS OWN#1 IN THIS DEAL!NOT SOME OTHER TEAMS USELESS, RIDICULOUSLY PROTECTED TO THE NTH DEGREE PICK.* Piston Fans,hope this helps.All others,time to wake up from your dreams and smell what Joe "the Rock" Dumars is REALLY cookin'


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## NugzFan

Edited. -BCH

either this reported is bored and a moron or joe D has officially became the worse GM in the league.

he couldnt dare ask for our pick. there is just no way. he knows better than to think 'eh, cant hurt...might as well ask' or even 'both are first rounders...same thing...kiki wont care or notice'

he wont get our pick, unless he wants that sucker lotto protected. have fun waiting for that. 

but the bigger issue would just be the loss of respect for joe as a GM which could come back to haunt him. 

but ill give him the benefit of the doubt til the true story comes out because i honestly dont think any gm would dare ask for our first.


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## cloudwlkr

*Pardon?*

Really funny Nugs,it seems that you need someone to make it plain for you to understand why KIKI is not exactly in the position to bargain here. HE CALLED JOE..... KIKI CALLED JOE,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. The Nuggets have wanted White from us for quite some time and they have called us repeatedly. Now usually the person holding the object of discussion has the barganing power. Joe has nothing to lose by "listening" to your "lord Kiki" fawn over his bench fodder. He also has nothing to lose in letting Rodney White languish on the IR. Just ask Mikki Moore,he was a glorified church clothes model for YEARS. He also has far less potential than White,yet unlike some Nuggets fans could still perform small tasks without help/supervision. This deal could fall ANY number of ways,I simply relayed what I heard Joe to be asking for. You talk as if this deal is finalized and you have every little detail worked out. But you were not, and you do not. So there is no way you can even begin to speculate as to what will be done vs. a very distinct possibility that they are still in the BARGAINING PROCESS. It is completely RATIONAL to even ASSUME that the person with the most bargaining power (Joe has what Kiki wants) would ask for something in return. Yet you seem to have it worked out so that Joe takes whatever crap he gets fed, thats not the way things work. 

cloudwlkr, this is the second time I have had to edit you in this thread. Refrain from attacking other posters. -BCH


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## tay money

cloudwlkr, go to www.rockmountainnews.com and look under sports and nuggets. they have a story about the trade 'possibility' . You can judge for yourself if you want to believe a paper that covers the nugs daily or the one in oakland. I trust you've looked for stories online in the Detroit papers. The Bucks pick is protected, like Nugzfan said, to never be a lottery pick. If someone if more BBS savy, they can provide the link.


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## Brian.

This is the most recent story in the Oakland Press Pistons continue White trade talks


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## BCH

*Stop the Insults*

cloudwlkr and NugzFan,

You both need to refrain from insulting each other. If you are insulted, do not respond in kind, contact a moderator of this board or a Community Moderator. Consider this fair warning.

BCH


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## tay money

See if you believe the Detroit free Press. www.freep.com/sports/pistons/piston25_20020925.htm


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## cloudwlkr

*Re;Tay Money*

You do realize that this is Oakland Co., Mich. I'm referring to right? Obviously both sides of this coin (denver/detroit) is going to be tainted with hometown journalism and I do realize that. I am just befuddled every time I see people referring to one pick or another (ex. "you got the Milwaukee pick") when NOTHING HAS BEEN INKED. As of right now no deal has been made and neither party has anything other than WORDS. I am not being as presumptuous as some by saying that we WILL receive your #1 pick,again I am not saying we WILL receive anything.I am simply letting other Piston fans know what I have heard; he wants Denvers #1 for White. I never said we would get it, I never said a deal was done, that would be stupid on my part.Furthermore I never stated that Kiki would just "give" it to us. My only goal here was to inform some moderately displeased Detroiters that this "deal is done" perspective is a false one. My sources (not any "websites", but contacts I have known for years) told me that Joe was asking for Denvers pick in the deal....I felt some people might want to know that Joe may not be the "fool" you guys would label him as. That is all. This trade could happen YOUR WAY,DETROITS WAY, or it could not happen at all. I am simply accepting that fact,yet Denver fans seem to be filled with so much hope that the thought of this deal not going their way makes them angry. Don't be, it's just not worth it. But the Fact just remains that until this deal is finalized anything can happen,or nothing.Could-have-been trades happen every day. Earlier this year Joe found it amusing that just because he didn't hang up on guys they thought he was hooked on their propositions.But enough of this back and forth stuff,we'll know for certain in a week or so. Until then best of luck on this trade, maybe it will work out the way you guys expect it to. I, for one, have NO expectations,therefore I will not be disappointed either way. Time for some dancing bananas darnit!:gbanana: :banana: :rbanana: :bbanana: :gbanana: :banana: :rbanana: :bbanana:


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## tay money

I didn't realize about the site being in Michigan til I went to the link. Thanks. You believe what your sources tell you and I'll do the same and we'll see what happens in a week. I will be crying if it happens your way though. kiki preaches about rebuilding through the draft, then give up potentially a great pick for a guy who didn't get off the bench. It just seems more logicial that the trade would be for a different pick if it happens. If it doesn't happen it all, I will believe that is because Joe wanted the Nugs #1. What is your opinion on the trade if it's for Milwaulkee's pick + the two guys most mentioned?


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## cloudwlkr

*stinks both ways*

Thats how I see it,but White COULD be something,Joe gets screwed more imo. kiki might not think you'll be a top5 lottery with White,or is thinking of protecting the pick Oh well,banana time!:vbanana: :wbanana: :vbanana: :wbanana:


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## jvanbusk

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Better? I dont see how. I think Detroit got worse and many other teams got significantly better.
> 
> If Hamilton doesnt have an all-star season, they might not even make the playoffs... at least imo.


Because their point guard situation is better.

Because their rebounding is better.

Because the bench is deeper.

Because they have more shooter types on the team.

I could list some more reasons, but those seem to be the very top reasons why they are better, in my opinion.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Because their point guard situation is better.
> 
> Because their rebounding is better.
> 
> Because the bench is deeper.
> 
> Because they have more shooter types on the team.
> 
> I could list some more reasons, but those seem to be the very top reasons why they are better, in my opinion.


All the reasons you gave were very minimal reasons. They've still got a backup PG starting. Michael Curry is a terrible starting SF. Ben Wallace is incredible, but horrific on offense. So if Chauncey has an off night, this team is gonna have trouble scoring 70 points. 

Richard Hamilton wasn't able to carry Washington without Jordan or Courtney Alexander or someone scoring big beside him.. so why would he be able to do that for Detroit?

The bench isnt much deeper with Okur and Prince, and personally I dont think Prince will do jack for Detroit or anyone else.

I'm not sure who the "shooter types" are that you are referring to. Unless you are speaking mostly of Hubert Davis.. he is a solid player (or just shooter), but his impact will be minimal.

I just don't understand how this team could be considered #3 in the East.. especially since other teams made significant improvements.. much more than Detroit.


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## jvanbusk

Would you agree with me that Billups and Atkins is better than Atkins and Damon Jones? I think anybody that refuses to agree with that would sound somewhat foolish. Billups is a better point guard than Atkins. He did a good job while starting for Minnesota. Hence, the PG situation is undoubtedly better this year.

One of the biggest weaknesses last year was Detroit's inability to rebound. By bringing in size and height (Okur and Prince), rebounding should be improved. They should atleast take pressure off of Wallace who can't do all the rebounding by himself.

Michael Curry is a terrible starter, I agree. But, he sets the defensive tone early which can be very valuable on some nights.

The bench IS deeper than last year. The Pistons used mostly a 9 man rotation last year. This year they are 2 deep at every position and 3 deep at SG.

Richard Hamilton will have Corliss, Chauncey, and Mehmet Okur. All should be capable of scoring. Plus, Robinson is still a good scorer as is Chucky off the bench.

Shooters:
Hubert Davis
Richard Hamilton 
Mehmet Okur
Chauncey Billups

All 4 can hit a spot up jumper. Rip is a better shooter than Jerry. Scoring is something Detroit desperately lacked in the playoffs last year. This year with guys that can actually hit jump shots that should be improved.

So with those improvements in the offseason, I don't understand why it's completely inconceivable that Detroit could get a #3 seed, which is WORSE than what they did last year.


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## JNice

So you think that team is better than --

Washington
PG Hughes
SG Stackhouse
SF Jordan
PF Brown
C Haywood

Orlando
PG Vaughn
SG Tmac
SF Hill
PF Grant
C Kemp

Nets
PG Kidd
SG Kittles
SF Jefferson
PF Martin
C Mutombo

Toronto
PG Williams
SG Carter
SF Murray
PF Williams
C Davis

Indiana
PG Tinsley
SG Miller
SF Harrington
PF Oneal
C Miller

New Orleans
PG Davis
SG Alexander
SF Mashburn
PF Brown
C Campbell

Or Even:

Hawks
PG Terry
SG Glover
SF Robinson
PF Abdur-Rahim
C Ratliff

Bucks (maybe better than here)
PG Cassel
SG Allen
SF Thomas
PF Mason
C Johnson

.. And even the Knicks got better adding McDyess..

So no, I dont think Chauncey Billups, Mehmet Okur, and Prince will take Detroit to #3 seed.


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## jvanbusk

Nets
PG Kidd
SG Kittles
SF Jefferson
PF Martin
C Mutombo

New Orleans
PG Davis
SG Alexander
SF Mashburn
PF Brown
C Campbell



In my opinion, these are the 2 teams that are better than the Pistons right now. It's a team game, Detroit plays one of the best team games in the league, and plays hardnosed defense.

I don't think Chauncey, Mehmet, or Tayshaun will take us to a #3 seed either. They sure will help. The players leading this team should be Ben Wallace, Rip, Corliss, and Cliff Robinson. Chauncey will bring stability to the team at PG. I'll be the first one to tell you that Jerry Stackhouse is a bit better than Richard Hamilton, but when you look at our other moves in the offseason you will realize they more than makeup for this loss. So why can't the #2 team be a #3 team? I have no idea....

Washington
PG Hughes
SG Stackhouse
SF Jordan
PF Brown
C Haywood

PG and frontcourt problems

Orlando
PG Vaughn
SG Tmac
SF Hill
PF Grant
C Kemp

Same problem as Washington. Kemp and Grant??? That's quite possibly the worst starting frontcourt in the league. And Jacque Vaughn????

Toronto
PG Williams
SG Carter
SF Murray
PF Williams
C Davis

Carter and ????? Lamond Murray helps, but he's a whiner or atleast that's what I hear from Cleveland fans.

Indiana
PG Tinsley
SG Miller
SF Harrington
PF Oneal
C Miller

Many of their players are in contract years. Don't you think that will lead to a little bit of a problem?

Hawks
PG Terry
SG Glover
SF Robinson
PF Abdur-Rahim
C Ratliff

Glenn Robinson does not completely heal this team. They will fight for an 8th seed if Ratliff can stay healthy. Other than him, who plays defense?

Bucks (maybe better than here)
PG Cassel
SG Allen
SF Thomas
PF Mason
C Johnson

After their blow-up last year??? lol

Every team has question marks, even Detroit. But, going into the season I feel Detroit is in the upper half of the Eastern Conference.


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## JNice

Well I think New Jersey, New Orleans, Orlando, Indiana, and Washington (as long as Jordan is healthy all year) are all clearly better than Detroit.

As far as Orlando, their top two players are both better than Detroit's best player.. and Orlando's sixth man is nearly as good as Detroit's new best player. Minus Ben Wallace, Orlando's frontcourt isnt at all worse than Detroit's. And the additions of Kemp, Oyedeji, and Humphrey will be a big help.

As for Indiana, dont guys usually play better the last year of their contracts? Most instances, yes.

And Washington.. there is a question how they will play together, but that team now has a ton talent and experience to go along with it. Not to mention Jordan, who if he is playing, as people should have clearly seen last season, makes everyone around him play much, much better. They have a lot of scoring and also a good bit of defense..

I guess we can stop this argument now.. but I think New Orleans, Indiana, Orlando, and Washington are the top 4 in the East (if all healthy) other than that Detroit, Milwaukee, Atlanta, New York, Boston, Philly and Toronto are all going to be fighting for the last four.

It amazes me how people rank Orlando so low.. I guess everyone forgets how good of a player Grant Hill is. And if you dont think he is healthy, go checkout the video on orlandomagic.com ...


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## cloudwlkr

*No "I" in "Team"*

JVan.....no mention of Barry when you list the shooters? Surely you were just listing our new guys. We are one of the few teams capable of creating an entire starting 5 deadly from the arc,and still have good shooters on the bench!! As I glanced at those teams listed I couldn't help but notice that some of those teams cannot put a starting five on the floor that has played serious minutes together. Since the game isn't played on paper,how do we know if these guys can get it done every night as a TEAM? Besides Stackhouse (Bary played in his spot alot anyway)we have the same team,Washington is full of young new,and with Stack and Hughes,unproven IMO. *I won't even mention Orlando,thats crap shoot.*Indiana never got their rotations straight last year,plus their play is ever so erratic;flashes of what they could be mixed with young idiotic mistakes.reggie is their only constant.*Atlanta is totally unproven as a ballclub. and *Toronto is not only extremely small,but short in the FC bench as well,their lineup is untested and key pieces are gone.* Milwaukee is counted out by most yet they stil have alot of the same people,as do the *Hornets yet I do not beleive that they can beat Detroit with their size like they have over the past few seasons,still however, a good team. The *Nets seem to be the ONLY team that has DEFINITELY improved,Assuming Mutombo doesn't a)slow own their offense b)start acting like hes a two year old.


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## cloudwlkr

*Detroit has improved*

Addressing issues that came to a head during the playoff seemed to be Joes major concern this offseason. Trading stackhouse covered one HUGE issue. What people do not take into account when comparing Rip and Stack is that in crunch time the ONLY thing that matters is making shots,something Jerry can't do. Boston and Toronto sagged off of Jerry,Ben,and Corliss. They gave them open jumpers that they could not hit while keeping their hands in the faces of our true shooters;Cliff,Jon,Chucky.Jerry drove into traffic expecting whistles to bail him out,our nonshooters kept missing shots,and our shooters couldn't get open consistently. Detroit tried to rely on good D yet gave up layups and second chance points. Mostly to the opposing point guard,Joe adds Billups,hopefully to be a better playmaker and a taller/stronger defender.Okur gives us another frontcourt shooter, and Prince cannot only shoot the rock but gives us a tall,quick, longarmed defender to better match up with the likes of Paul Pierce. In conclusion Detroit has the exact same team as last year,minus one unreliable jumpshot but with the addition of 4 players whom specialize in areas where only 4 months ago we were deficient.


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## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Orlando
> PG Vaughn
> SG Tmac
> SF Hill
> PF Grant
> C Kemp
> 
> And Jacque Vaughn????


Uhhhh....Jacque Vaughn won't be starting PG for them. A player by the name of Darrell Armstrong will. He gets 13-15ppg and a good number of assists. And Kemp won't be half bad this season either.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>The X Factor</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhhhh....Jacque Vaughn won't be starting PG for them. A player by the name of Darrell Armstrong will. He gets 13-15ppg and a good number of assists. And Kemp won't be half bad this season either.



Uhhhh.. yes he will. Vaughn was brought in to start so that Armstrong can move back into his best role as the energy coming off the bench.

<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sptschmitz25092502sep25,0,4525611.column?coll=orl%2Dmagic">Link</a>

What is wrong with Vaughn anyway? Orlando doesnt need a lot out of their PG, they just need a steady one, which Vaughn is.


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## JNice

*Re: No "I" in "Team"*



> Originally posted by <b>cloudwlkr</b>!
> JVan.....no mention of Barry when you list the shooters? Surely you were just listing our new guys. We are one of the few teams capable of creating an entire starting 5 deadly from the arc,and still have good shooters on the bench!! As I glanced at those teams listed I couldn't help but notice that some of those teams cannot put a starting five on the floor that has played serious minutes together. Since the game isn't played on paper,how do we know if these guys can get it done every night as a TEAM? Besides Stackhouse (Bary played in his spot alot anyway)we have the same team,Washington is full of young new,and with Stack and Hughes,unproven IMO. *I won't even mention Orlando,thats crap shoot.*Indiana never got their rotations straight last year,plus their play is ever so erratic;flashes of what they could be mixed with young idiotic mistakes.reggie is their only constant.*Atlanta is totally unproven as a ballclub. and *Toronto is not only extremely small,but short in the FC bench as well,their lineup is untested and key pieces are gone.* Milwaukee is counted out by most yet they stil have alot of the same people,as do the *Hornets yet I do not beleive that they can beat Detroit with their size like they have over the past few seasons,still however, a good team. The *Nets seem to be the ONLY team that has DEFINITELY improved,Assuming Mutombo doesn't a)slow own their offense b)start acting like hes a two year old.


Pretty funny that every excuse you just conjured up for the other teams all exist within the Pistons.

Stackhouse is not unproven. Hughes is unproven at PG, but his talent is not unproven.

Indiana has made young mistakes, sure, but they have another year under their belt. More importantly, Tinsley, their QB, has more experience. They have tons more talent than Detroit.

Atlanta is totally unproven as a team, yes, mostly due to injures. But Ratliff, Terry, Abdur-Rahim.. these guys are not unproven.

And who are the deadly shooters on Detroit? The streaky Atkins? Or the even more streaky Billups? You people are crazy if you think Tayshaun Prince is going to see major minutes this season.


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## cloudwlkr

*No three point shooters?*

Come on,you've got to look at our 3pt %Atkins and Barry 41% and 47% outshoot Dirk and steve 40%/45% also Paul and Antoine 40%/34% Billups shot 40% Cliff shot 38% All had more than 300 attempts save Barry(a mere 258)we NOW have Davis45% and Hamilton38%.Also Okur and Prince,both of whom CAN shoot. YOU can leave them ALL open if you want.Obviously you DO NOT know this team(no other has this many players,ALL with these kind of %'s AND those amounts of shots taken)Therefore anything you say sounds like a guess to me.Chucky took the most shots 336 averaged better than Pierce and Nowitzki,and you call him streaky?PLEASE!No Laker shot anywhere near ANY of these Pistons but for Fisher,300 att.41% same as "lucky" Atkins!!I hope you've at least considered the possibility that these guys might be better than you thought. BTW, I attended EVERY Pacer home game,and feel quite capable of assessing their chances,or lack thereof.


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## JNice

Yeah Chucky was so good he lost his starting spot to another journeyman PG. 

I'm not gonna argue about this anymore, but I guarantee Detroit will not be in the top 4 of the East.


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## RangerC

The Pistons will be one of the more interesting teams to watch next season. I really think they could finish anywhere from 1st to 10th in the East next year. 

If Rick Carlisle sticks with his lineup from last year, I honestly don't see this team in the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference. Curry and Wallace just can't be on the floor at the same time. That leaves Billups (3rd option for a team that had a .500 record when he started), Hamilton (one of the poorest overall 2nd options in the L last year) and a 36 year old Cliff Robinson to provide all the offense among the starters. Plus, the Pistons were the worst overall rebounding team in the L and this years team will be worse (Hamilton is a horrible rebounder for his position, Stackhouse was average) Zeljko Rebraca HAS to start. He's a true center, his per-minute numbers last season were excellent, and in the 3 games where Carlisle actually played him 30+ minutes, he averaged close to 15 pts, 10 reb and 3 blocks. Sticking Curry on the bench, sliding Robinson to his spot, and starting Rebraca (and giving him 30+ minutes) would give the Pistons some much needed offense and rebounding without damaging their overall defense.

Also, I think if either Okur or Prince (most likely Okur, who looked good in the WC) proves themselves worthy early in the season, they should be inserted into the starting lineup with Robinson moved to the bench. At this point in his career, Robinson really would be better off coming off the bench (plus he's proved himself effective in this role over the years) and his frontcourt versatility would be more useful here. This would provide more scoring punch, and Wallace and Rebraca could compensate for any loss of D.

I think the Pistons are really going to have to do something like this because they can't expect Barry and Williamson to have career years again off the bench, and Hamilton is a significant step down from Stackhouse in just about every area. With the right lineup tweaks and a few big years from the right players, the Pistons could be back near the top of the EC. If they instead put out a lineup that can't score or rebound and hope that their defense and bench can carry them again, I think it'll be a very disappointing year overall.


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## jvanbusk

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> Yeah Chucky was so good he lost his starting spot to another journeyman PG.
> 
> I'm not gonna argue about this anymore, but I guarantee Detroit will not be in the top 4 of the East.


You guarentee? Are you sure you want do that?


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## cloudwlkr

Ok, I give up. I do not see how every reason I "conjured"(?) up applies to Detroit as well. Indiana has a ton of problems that keep being blamed on age,traded Rose and Best for even younger guys mid-season,never established a set rotation.Strick should start, what about Tinsley? he will not like sitting the bench. Detroit has 7 guys back from last years rotation. Minus one Brickhouse( I take it back, he IS PROVEN, PROVEN TO BE UNRELIABLE) and our backup point. All these guys have a whole season under their belts,all 7 are Veterans save Z,and he at least has a ton of experience at age 30. Their success is based on this core group.At worst,if Billups was only expected to replace Jones and ANYONE of Hamilton,Okur,Davis, or Prince can manage to hit A WIDE OPEN JUMPER we would not only be just as good, but better. You see,Jerry can't hit jumpers,if that hasn't been said enough here. All this "slashing" crap matters for naught when his defender can lay 6 feet off of him and watch him go 3-19 for the night.The quickest first step in the world don't mean squat if no one respects your jumper. So, no, we are not a young team ala Indy,nor are we counting on guys to come back to life in order to lead our team like OrlandUR core group has played together for more than a year now,unlike Orlando,Indiana,Atlanta(Ratliff hasn't played much of anything with his "hips")We are one of the deepest teams in the league, unlike Toronto, people whom would receive playing time for other teams might not even make it off our IR.Also, Toronto is counting on Davis and Jerome to hold down the paint with ......MONTROSS!?! LOL We are not an undersized team anymore. Ben Wallace and the 6'11 Robinson also have two very talented 7 footers in Okur and Rebraca. So where are my comparisons applying to the Pistons here? Whats REALLY funny is having to respond to a statement that shouldn't have even made it to the screen.


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## RangerC

*Re: No three point shooters?*



> Originally posted by <b>cloudwlkr</b>!
> Come on,you've got to look at our 3pt %Atkins and Barry 41% and 47% outshoot Dirk and steve 40%/45% also Paul and Antoine 40%/34% Billups shot 40% Cliff shot 38% All had more than 300 attempts save Barry(a mere 258)we NOW have Davis45% and Hamilton38%.Also Okur and Prince,both of whom CAN shoot. YOU can leave them ALL open if you want.Obviously you DO NOT know this team(no other has this many players,ALL with these kind of %'s AND those amounts of shots taken)Therefore anything you say sounds like a guess to me.Chucky took the most shots 336 averaged better than Pierce and Nowitzki,and you call him streaky?PLEASE!No Laker shot anywhere near ANY of these Pistons but for Fisher,300 att.41% same as "lucky" Atkins!!I hope you've at least considered the possibility that these guys might be better than you thought. BTW, I attended EVERY Pacer home game,and feel quite capable of assessing their chances,or lack thereof.


Hamilton's 38% 3pt FG is very misleading. He averaged 0.3 made 3pt shots per game (and attempted less than 1 per game). Hamilton does not have legit 3 point range. Other than that, the Pistons do have one of the best overall 3pt shooting teams in the league (though I don't expect Jon Barry to shoot 7% better than his career average again next year).


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## BCH

I want to know who is going to be the go to guy on the Pistons. I can tell you right now unless Rip for ripped this summer he cannot do it in the 4th or near the end of games. It is not a lack of anything except strength. And RangerC makes a point about Rip's 3pt shooting but he has the ability to jack them up, it just was not part of the offense last year for him, or the Wizards for the most part, but his percentage will definitely suffer. The guy is a great midrange scorer. He is not the best shooter but when he has it going, he is very hard to stop because guys have to respect his shot, and subsequent ball fakes, thus his decent FTAs.

However, I don't see Detroit in the top 4 in the East either, but I am not giving any guarantees.


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## Damian Necronamous

Has anyone even publicly announced this Rodney White trade yet?


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## Brian.

no they are still working on the details of the trade detroit wants the nuggs #1 next year denver wants to give them milwaukees #1 next year.


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## Brian.

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> So you think that team is better than --
> 
> Washington
> PG Hughes
> SG Stackhouse
> SF Jordan
> PF Brown
> C Haywood
> 
> Orlando
> PG Vaughn
> SG Tmac
> SF Hill
> PF Grant
> C Kemp
> 
> Nets
> PG Kidd
> SG Kittles
> SF Jefferson
> PF Martin
> C Mutombo
> 
> Toronto
> PG Williams
> SG Carter
> SF Murray
> PF Williams
> C Davis
> 
> Indiana
> PG Tinsley
> SG Miller
> SF Harrington
> PF Oneal
> C Miller
> 
> New Orleans
> PG Davis
> SG Alexander
> SF Mashburn
> PF Brown
> C Campbell
> 
> Or Even:
> 
> Hawks
> PG Terry
> SG Glover
> SF Robinson
> PF Abdur-Rahim
> C Ratliff
> 
> Bucks (maybe better than here)
> PG Cassel
> SG Allen
> SF Thomas
> PF Mason
> C Johnson
> 
> .. And even the Knicks got better adding McDyess..
> 
> So no, I dont think Chauncey Billups, Mehmet Okur, and Prince will take Detroit to #3 seed.



Listen your judging teams strickly on talent and thats not the only factor in deciding how well your team does otherwise teams like milwaukee (last years roster I am referring to) and portland should have won 60-70 games but thats not how it works. First you need a good coach and you need good team chemistry those are basically a must. The pistons have both of those and more importantly they play good D. There not a flasy team they aren't going to make sportcenter with their 360 degree behind the back mid air sumersaulting dunks and there not going to drop a 120 pts a night but what they will do is show up every night and play hard.


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## johnston797

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> no they are still working on the details of the trade detroit wants the nuggs #1 next year denver wants to give them milwaukees #1 next year.


Looks like Denver got what they wanted. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news/20021001/pistonsnuggetstrade.html

Denver is a team with a plan. Looks like they could dump Camby at mid-season if he is healthy for more ending contracts. Either way, they will have between $25-30M in cap space with some nice young talent.

BTW - the Milwaukee pick according to posts that I have seen is top 18 protected this year and lottery protected for some time.


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## Brian.

Detroit had to do this deal had they waited another summer his trade value would have dropped more. He was not going to get any pt this year. He was way over hyped I am just glad joe got what he was able to get for him.


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