# Game Thread: Wiz @ Chi



## NorthEast Wiz (Jul 16, 2002)

Never too early for hype. 

We go against the Bulls. Two young exiting teams go head to head.

Arenes vs. Jamal
Stack vs. Rose
Hayes/JJ vs. Pippen
Kwame vs. Chandler
Haywood/White vs. Curry


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I posted a big post over in Chicago's page awhile ago talking about how great our matchup is with them from top to bottom.

PG: Arenas vs. Crawford
SG: Stackhouse vs. Rose
SF: Hayes vs. Pippen
PF: Kwame vs. Chandler
C: Haywood vs. Curry
BPG: Blake vs. Hinrich
BSG: Hughes vs. Hassell
BSF: Jeffries vs. Marshall
BPF: Laettner vs. Fizer
BC: White vs. Blount
11: Thomas vs. Baxter
12: Dixon vs. Robinson

I'm sure some of those players are off, but regardless it looks like a great matchup to me. If Crawford plays like he did the last two months of last year, the backcourt looks like a wash to me. I'd give them the frontcourt advantage for now, but by the end of the year it may be closer. The 6th man battle, which I'm calling Marshall vs. Hughes, is also a wash. As for the rest of the bench, I like ours better. It may not be much better, but I stilll think that it's better. I know I'll be looking forward to a four games this season


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## NorthEast Wiz (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I posted a big post over in Chicago's page awhile ago talking about how great our matchup is with them from top to bottom.
> 
> PG: Arenas vs. Crawford
> ...


I pretty much agree with your assessement but if asked to choose a backcourt I would choose ours. I choose their front court because I love Curry and thought we should have picked him with the #1.

I actually like their back-up players a little more, mainly because I like Fizer (even though most Bull fans hate him).


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NorthEast Wiz</b>!
> 
> I actually like their back-up players a little more, mainly because I like Fizer (even though most Bull fans hate him).








Fizer can contribute if he makes it back from the torn ACL.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Here goes

at pg- Wizards Arenas much better than Crawford and Hinrich. Crawford played well only the last month of the season. Hinrich will be good by season's end. 

at sg- Stackhouse has the edge slightly. He's a better scorer when he's the 1st option. With the higher tempo he'll get more chances. 


at sf- Chicago has edge Pippen's experience will give him an edge but Hayes's athleticism and shooting make it real close. He's played enough college ball will not be green. 


at PF- Kwame has the edge bigger, stronger, better post moves. Chandler is a garbage man no real post moves very explosive attacking basket. 

C- Curry has edge but barely. Early in seasons he's outta shape , White and Curry would be a standstill and White might be the starter. Haywood would lose this match-up because of the strength. White does okay against Shaq and Curry's no shaq. 


Bulls Bench- Robinson, Marshall, Fizer, Hinrich, Baxter Mason Jr, Blount and Hassell. 

Now only Marshall, Hinrich, Hassell , Fizer likely to play. Fizer and marshall only real factors. Each can go for double figures scoring. 

Wizards Bench- Dixon, JJ, Blake, Thomas, Haywood, Laetner, Hughes, 

Now only- Hughes, JJ, Haywood, Blake and Laetner likely to play. Hughes, JJ and Laetner can produce offensively. Hughes can go for 20+. Haywood can control teams defensively. 

*How the game will go* - Wizards can and probably will lose this game. Tough winning road openers. Arenas and Hayes added to new offense will not gell real well early. Bulls will be better. Stack will have a bad shooting game and Rose will have good game. Kwame will get 20 pts and double figure rebounds and Pippen will control the action. Arenas and crawford will be close in THIS match-up. Pippen and Rose will be the difference in this match-up along with the Bulls bench and home crowd. 

Turnovers will hurt this Wizards in this game as they get used to this system. Very close loss. But only loss to Bulls this season. The Bulls bench will outplay the Wizards in this one. 

Will take a sketchy 1st 20 games or so to gain chemistry before they start to play really well.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I posted a big post over in Chicago's page awhile ago talking about how great our matchup is with them from top to bottom.
> 
> PG: Arenas vs. Crawford
> ...


No way are crawford and Arenas a wash. No way. Have to take into account the actual producton not just a 10 or 12 games sampling. If that were the case Kwame ended and started the season well. But the middle was eeh.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

This is the perfect opener. Two of the youngest/talented teams in the East squaring off. We can't take this game lightly, the season series could mean the difference in who gets into the playoffs. Plus, if we win in Chicago, we get bragging rights and can tell all the Chicago fans who say their better to stick it.

I don't know if we'll win this, it's going to be hard for us to win on the road without MJ. He gave us the confidence, and he got us crowd support that made it feel like a home game.

I'm confident Arenas will want to impress in his first game, he always plays with a chip on his shoulder, and he should be able to somewhat 'try' to fill in that competitive edge that MJ's departure left behind.

I'll give my prediction during pre-season.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I meant to say that I liked their bench better -- I'm not sure why I said ours. My mistake :dead:


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NorthEast Wiz</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where did that come from? Most Bulls fans on these boards hate Jalen Rose, not Fizer.

Fizer is one of the best 6th men in the league. I like our bench more than yours mainly because of Fizer. He's a perfect sixth man. He provides solid D and quick offense off the bench.

Fizer's name is in a lot of trade rumors but that doesn't mean Bulls fans hate him. We're just stacked at PF with Marshall, Fizer, and Chandler. Marshall can play SF but he's more effective at PF. Fizer would be easier to trade and we could get a SF in return.


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## NorthEast Wiz (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JAF311</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After almost every game thread last year, the majority of posters on the Bulls board last season would roast Fizer. I would read my share of Rose haters too but Fizer was right up there on the hateration meter.

Like I said I have always liked Fizer.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Bottom line the Wizards are better than the Bulls just not the 1st game.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

If I had to choose, I'd go with the Bulls. The Wiz are such a question mark right now with the new coach, offense, players, etc. I think talentwise, the teams are about even, but chemistry at this point is just hard to judge.

I am happy to here however that Kwame is spending this summer playing with Gilbert in LA. Looks like those two are going to be boys on this team.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> If I had to choose, I'd go with the Bulls. The Wiz are such a question mark right now with the new coach, offense, players, etc. I think talentwise, the teams are about even, but chemistry at this point is just hard to judge.
> 
> I am happy to here however that Kwame is spending this summer playing with Gilbert in LA. Looks like those two are going to be boys on this team.


Where did you here this. They do have ths same agent though. Arenas and Murphy really wirked hard Before Arenas's 1st year out in California.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

These player comparison usually don't add up real well.

ITs more a matter of chemistry, especially with two young teams. I'll give the slight edge to the Bulls b/c they have more experience playing together the past year and a half. In the long run however, I believe the Wizards will win more games. Arenas/Brown should make an exciting combo.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

There is a lot of overrating and underrating in this thread.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think it's going to take some time for Washington to bring all their players together, whereas Chicago will have the advantage of being at home and having had most of these players around each other playing tough games for a season.

You guys got off easy last year because it was basically a home game with MJ playing. It should be the exact opposite this year. All the jordan fanatics are going to show up just to boo the wizards. It's gonna be a hostile enviroment times ten.

I think Rose and Pippen give us a decided advantage in controlling the game. The game is going to be a half court game, which is not what Washington's young guys want to play. Chicago runs deep in the frontcourt and we're going to play smashmouth basketball. Whether it's Curry or Baxter or Fizer, someone big is going to be on the block forcing the action.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I think it's going to take some time for Washington to bring all their players together, whereas Chicago will have the advantage of being at home and having had most of these players around each other playing tough games for a season.
> 
> You guys got off easy last year because it was basically a home game with MJ playing. It should be the exact opposite this year. All the jordan fanatics are going to show up just to boo the wizards. It's gonna be a hostile enviroment times ten.
> ...


I think the Bulls will take this one but just because its the home opener and the Wizards are gonna take some time to come together. 

Smash mouth ain't gonna work though. Kwame stands up well against the Bulls frontcourt,and Jahidi and Haywood will prevent that from happening. Curry usually doesn't begin cranking up until late in the season so I expect he won't against the Wizards.

I think Pippen and Rose will win this one. Stack will shoot poorlly and force shots. 

Kwame and Arenas will play well for the Wizards.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> Where did you here this. They do have ths same agent though. Arenas and Murphy really wirked hard Before Arenas's 1st year out in California.


I got this from WizardKev, who is possibly the best source for Wizards info you'll find on the net.

He also said Kwame will participate in Pete Newell's camp, and work with a personal trainer in DC. So for those who thought Kwame was lazy for leaving SL early, well he went back to work with the trainer (which is alot more physically tiring than SL) as soon as he got back to DC.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

What is Kwame's sloppy azz gonna do 2 the bulls? How about HIDI & HAY?:laugh:


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## Lets_Go_Bulls (Feb 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the Bulls will take this one but just because its the home opener and the Wizards are gonna take some time to come together.
> ...


Curry "cranked up" late last season because he finally began to come into his own. It was only his second year in the NBA. He had a relatively poor rookie year. It has nothing to do with a tendancy to get off to a slow start. He will pick up right where he left off and get better.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> 
> 
> I got this from WizardKev, who is possibly the best source for Wizards info you'll find on the net.
> ...


Glad to hear it local was alittle worried that summer league was cutting into his Indy car racing time down in Georgia. 

I see the potential in that kid if he just gets to work. The physical talent is there. I'm not that hung up on Pete Newell's camp it helps but just a little.

I'm glad to hear about the personal trainer, Kwame has the body already. He just needs to develop more stamina and also learn how to eat. He's gonna destroy it eating too much fried chicken. 

Kwame I think more than anything got comfortable having money to get things. He was very poor coming up and being from that small town didn't exactly have agents or AAU guys around to funnell him some dough. With MJ here Kwame took his foot off the pedal. 

Now Kwame has to earn some money. I think he gets it now. So I expect him to have a couple career years to get the big paycheck.


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## 1Craw2Cur3Chan (Apr 13, 2003)

*hehehe*

you wiz fans are such goons. You ramble how the wizards are so much better and then say the bulls will win for some stupid reason. No excuses dammit. 

thank you and enjoy your day


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I personally think the Bulls will be better this year, but what you don't seem to understand is that there is a difference between one game and the long haul. When people are arguing that the Wizards are better, they mean over the next year or two. That has absolutely nothing to do with who will win one individual game. It is a season opening home game in Chicago, which would be difficult to win for any team in the league.

I'd say Chicago fans are goons, but I realize most of them don't give us posts as weak as yours.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

We have a long time before this game things will become more apparent once the preseason is over. The preseason should give us a hint at how good or bad we will be.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

I don't think so. Last year we started out 4-0 in preseason with no Jordan and I was judging our team as an East contender. We beat Philly twice in preseason so I was thinking we were going to be better than them. Preaseason means nota.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> I don't think so. Last year we started out 4-0 in preseason with no Jordan and I was judging our team as an East contender. We beat Philly twice in preseason so I was thinking we were going to be better than them. Preaseason means nota.



I disagree. I wasn't really referring to the wins and losses just how certain players would play, I think you have to discout that whole pre-season because Mj didn't play and it didn't give an indication. 

This preseason I think will be an indication. Not a complete eval but and indication because presummably all the playrs will be there and healthy and they'll have a chance to get 4or 5 games together. We'll get an indication this preseason how well Arenas and Stackhouse play together if Hayes can be the sf if Kwame and Haywood can man the post if JJ can play well after his knee injury, we'll get a hint at all those things. And most of all if the team can adapt to Coach EJ's style of play and how they react to it. 


Last season was off base on all fronts from MJ charade of coming off the bench to pushing tha ball all preseason to have MJ come back into the line-up and iimmediatly slowing things down.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

How are the Wizards going to be better than the bulls for the next 2 years?


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Very easily.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Very easily.


How?


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

He's discussed it over and back and over again already; I'm not saying that he isn't willing to explain his position again, but you could just look through a couple other threads on the Wizards page and read what he thinks.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> He's discussed it over and back and over again already; I'm not saying that he isn't willing to explain his position again, but you could just look through a couple other threads on the Wizards page and read what he thinks.


I asked the man a question He didn't respond because He didn't have a reason. So can you answer it Captain save a Wizard?:no:


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I'd consider it, but I don't see the point with someone who has such a huge bias towards their team. I mean it's okay if you like to think your team is going to be the best, but it's a waste of my time to try to explain why my team could be better. Honestly, is there any possible explanation that any of us could give that would have you reconsider your opinion that Chicago will be the better team over the next few years?

All I was saying is that Jazzy has written paragraph upon paragraph in debate with me (who thinks Chicago will be better next season, by the way) over why he believes the Wizards will be the better team. You asked him why he believed that, and I simply responded that you could read a few of the other Wizards threads to understand his view. If you really have an interest in listening to his opinion, all it takes is looking at a couple other threads.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I'd consider it, but I don't see the point with someone who has such a huge bias towards their team. I mean it's okay if you like to think your team is going to be the best, but it's a waste of my time to try to explain why my team could be better. Honestly, is there any possible explanation that any of us could give that would have you reconsider your opinion that Chicago will be the better team over the next few years?
> 
> All I was saying is that Jazzy has written paragraph upon paragraph in debate with me (who thinks Chicago will be better next season, by the way) over why he believes the Wizards will be the better team. You asked him why he believed that, and I simply responded that you could read a few of the other Wizards threads to understand his view. If you really have an interest in listening to his opinion, all it takes is looking at a couple other threads.


I just read the first sentence of your post thats it and I would like to send it back to you.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEWILL</b>!
> 
> 
> I asked the man a question He didn't respond because He didn't have a reason. So can you answer it Captain save a Wizard?:no:


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEWILL</b>!
> 
> 
> I asked the man a question He didn't respond because He didn't have a reason. So can you answer it Captain save a Wizard?:no:


I didn't have a reason. Man read the posts in this forum I listed several reasons ad nauseum about why I believe the Wizards are better than the Bulls. Look it up I don't feel like saying the same things over again . I have read many of your post before BeeWill you have nothing much to offer this discussion but senseless reasoning.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Whew, finally Jazzy comes and says himself what I've been saying for him  He is so pro-Bulls that any further arguing with him would be a waste of time.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

By the way I'm Captain save a Wizard bring that here. MJG agrees with you if you think the Bulls are better. 

There is no proof just opinion supported by some evidence of prior production. 

Next season when these teams play then we'll know but no one on either side is crazy or silly for thinking either team is better because the Wizards and the Bulls are really close together as far as talent is concerned. 

I favor the Wizards and have said many times I'm biased never tried to hide that fact. I think the Wizards are better and the Bulls really have very little advantages in any area in the match-up. I said I think the Bulls will win the home opener but I reserve the right to change my mind. One game doesn't prove who's the best team. I think the Wizards will have the better season and will possibly make the playoffs. 

The Bulls have essentially the same team they had last year and the young players haven't taken that big a leap forward past Kwame that some may think. I think Kwame's more talented than the Baby Bulls and he outplayed them most of the time last year when they mathced up. I think he breaks out from under MJ's shadow and plays well. 

Pippen is broken down and Hinrich is a question mark. 

We'll see next year. I'm not going to get bogged down again like I have in the past discussing this very thing. 

I'm done we'll see next season.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I actually like the Wizards better long-term; I just favor the Bulls for next season. Our talent is more or less the same as theirs, but we are better salary-capwise and don't have any headcases on our team. I just think that they are a bit further in development at this point, which will help them early in the season next year, which will give them the edge for the playoff hunt.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

My mind may be changed ... 

I was giving the Bulls a slight nod over the Wizards, but that thread may have changed my mind. Chicago had one of the east's better home records last year, but was abysmal on the road. Assuming they can equal last year's home record (which may not be as easy as it sounds), they would have to win an additional 11 road games to reach .500 for the season. No matter how much their young guns improve, that is a near impossible task. The Wizards, on the other hand, won nearly five times as many road games as the Bulls last year. If we were to net a two game improvement both at home and on the road, we would be at .500 and likely into the 8th spot. I'm not totally on the Wiz-to-the-playoff thing yet, but I'm not as against it as I was.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't have a reason. Man read the posts in this forum I listed several reasons ad nauseum about why I believe the Wizards are better than the Bulls. Look it up I don't feel like saying the same things over again . I have read many of your post before BeeWill you have nothing much to offer this discussion but senseless reasoning.


I aint got time for that give me the reason they are going to be better than the bulls this year and next.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> By the way I'm Captain save a Wizard bring that here. MJG agrees with you if you think the Bulls are better.
> 
> There is no proof just opinion supported by some evidence of prior production.
> ...


The wiz have nobody in the organization that brings what Pip brings to the baby bulls.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> My mind may be changed ...
> 
> I was giving the Bulls a slight nod over the Wizards, but that thread may have changed my mind. Chicago had one of the east's better home records last year, but was abysmal on the road. Assuming they can equal last year's home record (which may not be as easy as it sounds), they would have to win an additional 11 road games to reach .500 for the season. No matter how much their young guns improve, that is a near impossible task. The Wizards, on the other hand, won nearly five times as many road games as the Bulls last year. If we were to net a two game improvement both at home and on the road, we would be at .500 and likely into the 8th spot. I'm not totally on the Wiz-to-the-playoff thing yet, but I'm not as against it as I was.


9 road games:laugh: Those road games you did win were with the help of Jordans lead by examples. How hard is it going to be to win on the road now for the bulls with the addition of PIP as the leader. Never missed the playoffs. The Wizards are not winners they proved that even when MJ tried and tried again to install a winners mentality into those bums especially Kwame the bummiest Number 1 pick ever. Haywood pure slop. And I'm a big fan of the wizards and I'm biased as well to the team. But w/out MJ they would have Lebron right now.


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## NorthEast Wiz (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEWILL</b>!
> 
> 
> 9 road games:laugh: Those road games you did win were with the help of Jordans lead by examples. How hard is it going to be to win on the road now for the bulls with the addition of PIP as the leader. Never missed the playoffs. The Wizards are not winners they proved that even when MJ tried and tried again to install a winners mentality into those bums especially Kwame the bummiest Number 1 pick ever. Haywood pure slop. And I'm a big fan of the wizards and I'm biased as well to the team. But w/out MJ they would have Lebron right now.


Did you just write 'bummiest'?

I broke down our wins and losses and came up with 37-45. With that said I feel much better about our team. First of all our best two players are not playing the same position now and our young front court has had an opportunity to mature some.

I'm not sure were the Bulls will be, but they had 30 wins last year so while they will be improved I don't see there record being much better than the Wizards.


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NorthEast Wiz</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you just write 'bummiest'?
> ...


Who just lost The best player to ever play the game and T. Lue.:uhoh: 

I'm through I thought you had something legitimate but you don't and I kind of knew it when you said check the past pages smages fazes. AWL just cut it maybe get some new jerseys or something. 

37 wins with 82 home games  is not that good. There is no more crowds to cheer you on anymore. So why should I believe your team has improved?:| Give up


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Hopefully by now we realize that we should not bother arguing with this guy :no:


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> Hopefully by now we realize that we should not bother arguing with this guy :no:


Exactly:grinning:


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Glad we agree :yes:


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## BEEWILL (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> Glad we agree :yes:


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