# Jennings vs Rubio



## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

who do you think is the better prospect? who will have a better season next year? who will get drafted higher (if they both come out the same season)?

I think Rubio to all those questions

I don't wanna disagree with Jennings decision to forego college but I think he could've chose a better team in Europe if he really wanted to play there

he will have to either put up great stats or be considered one of the leaders on the team while leading them to the Italian championship

Also he is a guy who racks up a lot of assists and those numbers will not stand out nearly as much in Europe

Anyway I think Rubio is for sure a better Euro player and overall a better talent even though it will be closer in the NBA


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Agreed on all accounts. Jennings hurt his draft stock.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm not sure about either at this point. Both have an unbelievable ceiling, but both are also somewhat limited physically and are raw and no sure bets therefore. And while both are also fun to watch, their games don't translate into efficiency yet and that is something they will to have learn to combine their passing with more solidness in order to become good or even great pros. 

I can't really decide who I would rather have. :whoknows:


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Ball-Handling- Jenings has the slight advantage here. He has a little more wiggle than Rubio does. This shouldn't be taken as a slight to Rubio because Jennings would have been the best ball-handler on the college level from the minute he stepped on the floor. 


Passing- Push. The court vision each posseses is otherworldly. Jennings is more flashy while Rubio just gets the job done everytime. 


Shooting- Push. Neither is a great outside shooter as both are streaky. It's hard to give one the advantage when both are fairly streaky.


Intangibles- Rubio slightly. Both have been documented as being slight headcases but Rubio is slightly more of a leader (the U16 world championships being a good indicator). 

Potential- Rubio. He needs to add muscle and a jumper but thats about it. Jennings needs to polish his jumper, defense, add muscle, etc. Rubio could be a Jason Kidd enhanced if he improves like many think he can. 


Athletic Ability- Jennings and it isn't even close. He is lightning fast and might have been the 2nd best dunker in the '08 class outsside of Derozan. 


The score on my count is 2-2-2 so as even as it can get. Rubio has slightly more potential and at this point is more inclined to play in a half-court offense. Jennings would be better in a fast break type setting. Both are the best PG prospects for the upcoming '09 draft.


----------



## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

It's not a fair question to ask straight up which of the two you'd rather have, considering they are each suited for a different type of style. Jennings would be a great running PG, and Rubio is a good half court PG. 

If I were choosing between the two, I'd have to choose Jennings though. Jennings is much more athletic, and I think that makes him a bit more versatile.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

bball2223 said:


> The score on my count is 2-2-2 so as even as it can get. Rubio has slightly more potential and at this point is more inclined to play in a half-court offense. Jennings would be better in a fast break type setting. Both are the best PG prospects for the upcoming '09 draft.




and rubio's been doing this against grown men for the past 5 years. and jennings??? come on, bball :naughty:


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

TM said:


> and rubio's been doing this against grown men for the past 5 years. and jennings??? come on, bball :naughty:


Your right Rubio is wayyyyyyyyyyy better than Jennings who am I to argue that smh. Your right though Rubio has been as dominant against grown men as Jennings has against high schoolers (the best HS competition at that). Why don't we wait til we see them against similar competition until we judge them accurately. As of now it's fairly even. I only wish Rubio would have come over to the ABCD camp or one of these tournaments so we could have seen him for ourselves.


----------



## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

I can't wait see if this kid phenom can live up to the hype in Beijing.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

bball2223 said:


> Your right Rubio is wayyyyyyyyyyy better than Jennings who am I to argue that smh.


That's more like it.



> As of now it's fairly even.


how is that?


----------



## Fede (May 23, 2004)

Rubio didnt impressed me the other day against argentina, just average. He didnt play significant minutes and he is only 17, so lets see.


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

TM said:


> That's more like it.
> 
> 
> 
> how is that?


How is it not? We have never seen the two go head to head or against similar competition. Rubio plays tougher competition but isn't even near as dominant as Jennings is against lesser competition. Why don't we wait to see the two go head to head eh?


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

bball2223 said:


> How is it not? We have never seen the two go head to head or against similar competition. Rubio plays tougher competition but isn't even near as dominant as Jennings is against lesser competition. Why don't we wait to see the two go head to head eh?


That comparison is not legit though. When Rubio played against similar competition or players of his age, this happened: 



> In August of 2006, Rubio led the junior Spanish national team to the FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship. During the tournament (excluding the final game), Rubio achieved two triple-doubles and one quadruple-double. In the 110-106 double overtime finale victory over Russia, Rubio scored 51 points (including a three-point, buzzer-beating shot from mid-court, to force the first overtime), grabbed 24 rebounds, made 12 assists, and stole the ball seven times, a performance unprecedented in the tournament's history. Rubio also was named the Most Valuable Player of the tournament after leading it in points, rebounds, assists and steals.





mysterio said:


> I can't wait see if this kid phenom can live up to the hype in Beijing.


Depends on what you expect. I don't think he will play more than 10 minutes or so and he isn't there to showcase anything.


----------



## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> In August of 2006, Rubio led the junior Spanish national team to the FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship. During the tournament (excluding the final game), Rubio achieved *two triple-doubles *and *one quadruple-double*. In the 110-106 double overtime finale victory over Russia, Rubio *scored 51 points (including a three-point, buzzer-beating shot from mid-court, to force the first overtime), grabbed 24 rebounds, made 12 assists, and stole the ball seven times*, a performance unprecedented in the tournament's history. *Rubio also was named the Most Valuable Player of the tournament after leading it in points, rebounds, assists and steals*.


Christ...


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

croco said:


> That comparison is not legit though. When Rubio played against similar competition or players of his age, this happened:


USA High Schoolers > Euro Teens in terms of competition. Both are great players but if your going to argue the dominance of both against players of their age that comparison isn't very legit either. You think Rubio has a quadruple double playing at an AAU tourney against top notch competition? Not a chance. Jennings has been playing the best High Schoolers in America since he was like 14 and has dominated nearly everyone he has played. Both are great prospects but I find it hard that one can distinguish much of a difference between the two skillwise, or dominance wise. Rubio probably has more potential down the line though.


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

MrJayremmie said:


> Christ...


That was amazing how easily he dominated.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

bball2223 said:


> USA High Schoolers > Euro Teens in terms of competition. Both are great players but if your going to argue the dominance of both against players of their age that comparison isn't very legit either. You think Rubio has a quadruple double playing at an AAU tourney against top notch competition? Not a chance. Jennings has been playing the best High Schoolers in America since he was like 14 and has dominated nearly everyone he has played. Both are great prospects but I find it hard that one can distinguish much of a difference between the two skillwise, or dominance wise. Rubio probably has more potential down the line though.


I don't like cross comparisons because you can't really prove anything with those. The major difference in this instance is that Rubio had those games with the national team in a championship game. That doesn't mean he faced great competition, but putting up those numbers against players of the same age is impressive even by lower standards.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Who was the 2nd best NBA prospect at that U16 tourney?


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

croco said:


> I don't like cross comparisons because you can't really prove anything with those. The major difference in this instance is that Rubio had those games with the national team in a championship game. That doesn't mean he faced great competition, but putting up those numbers against players of the same age is impressive even by lower standards.


I never said it wasn't impressive. Who was another NBA prospect at that tourney?


----------



## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> Who was the 2nd best NBA prospect at that U16 tourney?


That's basically what I was thinking. I'm sure there are a decent amount of NBA players who either didn't have the body, or the skill at that age because they're still developing (physically, mentally, etc. etc.). Still though, that's an impressive performance.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Feel free to look it up: http://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_KNce8...FJ,kK9s431Lyr41.season_2006.roundID_4752.html

http://www.eurobasket.com/events/ecu16/06/ecu16.asp


----------



## penzias (Aug 25, 2008)

MemphisX said:


> Who was the 2nd best NBA prospect at that U16 tourney?


Hard to say, since all of them are still pretty young, but probably Donatas Motiejunas from Lithuania.


----------



## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Your right Rubio is wayyyyyyyyyyy better than Jennings who am I to argue that smh. Your right though Rubio has been as dominant against grown men as Jennings has against high schoolers (the best HS competition at that). Why don't we wait til we see them against similar competition until we judge them accurately. As of now it's fairly even. I only wish Rubio would have come over to the ABCD camp or one of these tournaments so we could have seen him for ourselves.


Rubio has not dominated anyone in Europe. Where does this myth come from?


----------



## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I'll take Rubio's length, defense, and rebounding over Brandon's scoring.


----------



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Rule_By_His_Own_Hand said:


> Rubio has not dominated anyone in Europe. Where does this myth come from?


Not with scoring, but his steals and assists (2.4 and 4.5, respectively) per game are pretty ridiculous for only 20 mpg, and even more so for a kid.


----------



## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

luther said:


> Not with scoring, but his steals and assists (2.4 and 4.5, respectively) per game are pretty ridiculous for only 20 mpg, and even more so for a kid.


In the Spanish League, not the Euroleague. Huge difference and even then it's not close to "domination" by any means. In that case Pablo Prigioni is the most dominant player in Europe's history.


----------



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm not trying to argue with you, and am not going to. But it's not like his play was anything to sneeze at. He is a kid, and those stats are remarkable for that little time in a major pro league. And by the way, they weren't his Spanish league stats, they were ULEB Cup stats, meaning a step below Euroleague but better than domestic leagues (unless you believe that Spanish league lover who always goes on about how Spanish league is even better than Euroleague...). I didn't say Rubio dominated overall: he didn't. But he did do very well and some aspects of his game are dominant at times. For a kid, that's amazing.


----------



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Oh, and Prigioni is a good player, too. No reason to badmouth him.


----------



## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

luther said:


> I'm not trying to argue with you, and am not going to. But it's not like his play was anything to sneeze at. He is a kid, and those stats are remarkable for that little time in a major pro league. And by the way, they weren't his Spanish league stats, they were ULEB Cup stats, meaning a step below Euroleague but better than domestic leagues (unless you believe that Spanish league lover who always goes on about how Spanish league is even better than Euroleague...). I didn't say Rubio dominated overall: he didn't. But he did do very well and some aspects of his game are dominant at times. For a kid, that's amazing.



First of all the Euroleague is way better than Spanish League, but second of all the ULEB Cup which is actually called the Eurocup absolutely sucks - at least up until through last season. Granted it's a lot stronger now this year with Dynamo and Khimki, but that's really a first time thing.

Seriously the level of the Eurocup is generally VERY POOR. The best leagues in Europe are in order:

1. Euroleague
2. Spanish League
3. Greek League
4. Russian League
5. Italian League
6. Eurocup


After that the next best league would either be the Adriatic League or the Turkish league.

The Eurocup is WELL BELOW the Spanish League. Even compared to the second best domestic league the Greek A1, the Eurocup is like a rec league almost.


----------



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

We disagree. The point, though: Rubio is very, very good. There isn't any really legitimate reason to badmouth him based on his production up until now, his physical skills, at his age, at the levels at which he's played... (Note, there's not reason to worship him, either.)


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Rubio is good #1 pick good.


----------



## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

luther said:


> We disagree. The point, though: Rubio is very, very good. There isn't any really legitimate reason to badmouth him based on his production up until now, his physical skills, at his age, at the levels at which he's played... (Note, there's not reason to worship him, either.)


Look you are way WAY off about the Eurocup level. You should get your facts right on that one. The level is so poor that even mid-level Greek and Spanish teams refuse to even participate unless they automatically go to the 3rd round of play. Give me a break man, the Eurocup is WAY and I mean WAY BELOW the Spanish League.


----------



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

And you're way off for knocking Rubio. That doesn't make me go around unnecessarily capitalizing letters. Calm down, Mr. Hand-Ruler.


----------



## Scipio (Feb 18, 2004)

Rule_By_His_Own_Hand said:


> Granted it's a lot stronger now this year with Dynamo and Khimki, but that's really a first time thing.
> 
> Seriously the level of the Eurocup is generally VERY POOR.


This is wrong in so many ways. When you create a continental league, like ULEB cup last season, and you have around 20 teams from Spain, Russia, Italy, Turkey, Greece and Serbia, you know the competition is very good and better than any domestic leagues. And you don't just get in this league but you have to earn that spot so even if the teams in ULEB are one step below Euroleague it doesn't mean they suck like you suggest. Granted, there a lot of poor team around Europe in the preliminary groups but to win the tournament you better play well.

Last year in the top 16 there were good Spanish teams (DKV Joventut, Pamesa Valencia, Girona, Gran Canaria) Team from Russia participated agains your "knowledge" (Khmki, Dynamo MOscow, Kazan). Go and have a closer look. You have to win very tough tems to win it.


----------



## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

Scipio said:


> This is wrong in so many ways. When you create a continental league, like ULEB cup last season, and you have around 20 teams from Spain, Russia, Italy, Turkey, Greece and Serbia, you know the competition is very good and better than any domestic leagues. And you don't just get in this league but you have to earn that spot so even if the teams in ULEB are one step below Euroleague it doesn't mean they suck like you suggest. Granted, there a lot of poor team around Europe in the preliminary groups but to win the tournament you better play well.
> 
> Last year in the top 16 there were good Spanish teams (DKV Joventut, Pamesa Valencia, Girona, Gran Canaria) Team from Russia participated agains your "knowledge" (Khmki, Dynamo MOscow, Kazan). Go and have a closer look. You have to win very tough tems to win it.


The problem with this theory is it taken out of context. he's arguing that Rubio's stats should be counted. You are arguing a different issue. The first several games are played against significantly inferior opponents. The league doesn't even start until you get to the top 16, before that the teams are very inferior, so just counting all his stats and calling that a "strong league" is very misleading to say the very least.

The Spanish League stats IMO are A LOT more valid because every week almost it is a decent opponent. I mean come on, a team like Aris doesn't even have to qualify to the first two rounds and they finished in 5th place in the Greek League last year. Seriously.

You guys are rating Eurocup on a way different standard. Using this logic we should legitimately be able say that the Euroleague is almost to the NBA because only the Euroleague final four should be counted for judging the level of the entire league. Give me a break.


----------



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Rule_By_His_Own_Hand said:


> he's arguing that Rubio's stats should be counted. You are arguing a different issue. The first several games are played against significantly inferior opponents. The league doesn't even start until you get to the top 16, before that the teams are very inferior, so just counting all his stats and calling that a "strong league" is very misleading to say the very least.


There are multiple arguments apparently being made in this thread, but as for the one I'm making, let me make it myself. And really, those ULEB Cup stats weren't made as some grand proof of Rubio's ability, just some evidence. And yes, I said it was a good league. Good compared to NBA? Obviously not. As good as Euroleague? Obviously not. Better than Spanish league? Yeah, I think so, but it's not that big a deal either way. If it's such a major sticking point, then look at Rubio's Spanish league stats--the only reason I used ULEB Cup in the first place was I had them on hand. So his regular season ACB League stats--if my mediocre Spanish isn't wrong--are 10.5 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 4 apg, 44 FG%, 81 3pt%, in about 24 mpg. His 3pt% is bad, we know that. I don't know what Spanish for steals is, so I can't provide that. (I'm thinking maybe "Balones Rec and Balones Per" might be turnovers and steals, but am not sure; if so, it's 2.2 or 2.1.) And all I was originally saying--now half a forever ago and argued about to a ludicrous extent--was that while his stats are not dominant, they are more than impressive for a kid in an adult's pro league.


----------



## penzias (Aug 25, 2008)

Rule_By_His_Own_Hand said:


> In the Spanish League, not the Euroleague. Huge difference and even then it's not close to "domination" by any means. In that case Pablo Prigioni is the most dominant player in Europe's history.


Well, he played Euroleague at 15-16, the guy is astonishing but not superman. Last year Joventut played, and won, ULEB cup (2nd european competition).
Rubio hasn't yet been dominant, he was just the best PG in Spain last season, although he strugled a litle in the end, it's up to you decide how much impresive that looks. 
This year he is suposed to be the leader of Joventut and i'm sure he'll keep overwhelming all the hype.


----------



## penzias (Aug 25, 2008)

luther said:


> I don't know what Spanish for steals is, so I can't provide that. (I'm thinking maybe "Balones Rec and Balones Per" might be turnovers and steals, but am not sure; if so, it's 2.2 or 2.1.) ¡


Balones rec = steals
Balones per = turnovers


----------



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

penzias said:


> Balones rec = steals
> Balones per = turnovers


Thanks!


----------

