# Camp battles



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

pretty much with 15 spots with guarenteed contracts for better or worse this is basically it for the knicks to enter the season unless something drastic and unforseen happens.

the more i think about it the more i think Frye has a real and legitamite chance to start at center over Jerome james. Frye and sweetney compliment each other's strengths and weakness pretty well. In fact i think they will compliment each other so well that Frye will beat conventional wisdom and be starting at center on opening night.

Frye is not a good rebounder , sweetney is a very good one, sweets is not a shotblocker ...frye is. The same for frye can be said for Jerome james . but the difference is frye can shoot , james cant . Frye cant give sweetney room to post up , and since he will likely be the team's main post up threat, its important that he gets some room, especially since he isn't the world's best leaper.

Frye's main weakness to james is that jerome james is alot stronger, but i dont think thats a major problem , sweetney is more equipped to guard the bigger centers anyway , i think brown would want put Sweetney on players like that anyway, most teams start a guy glued to the post and a guy who floats out anyway, i am thinking in most cases you put sweetney on the stronger post player and have Frye guard the guy who is floating so channing can help with weakside defense.

for instance in the atlantic

bos. al jeffererson and raef will likely start...sweets would defend jefferson. 
tor. bosh and arajao or aaron williams , frye would likely be defending bosh
nj. krstic and collins , sweentey stays inside with collins
philly, sweetney defends webber,


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i think James starts.....actually i am sure of it...

i think the battle is Frye vs Sweetney....
I dont see Frye as a 5 for the next year or so...I do see him as a 4......

Q vs TT...
Hmmm.....thats a tough one to me...Q's edge is D


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

who says Tim wont play d?

hes 6 10..super long...quick,strong.

he could be a defender...can brown get him in that mindstate?


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

q vs. TT...., What makes people so sure Ariza cant win?

he plays the best defense out of the 3. rebounds the best as well.

the main advantage Timmy and Q have on Trevor is 3 point range ...a shot Larry brown has gotten a rep for disliking.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

cause ariza is worse then ben wallace on offense, and his D aint good enough to land him a starting job over talents like q n tt


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> cause ariza is worse then ben wallace on offense, and his D aint good enough to land him a starting job over talents like q n tt


5.9 points a game in 17.3 min. for ariza vs. 14.9 in 35.9. for Q

over 36 minutes its really just the difference of 12 against 15...between Richardson and Ariza, and ariza defends and rebounds better.

tim thomas scores at a better rate at 15.8 over 36 minutes but rebounds and defends worse then them both.

add to that pyhsically tim thomas is really a power forward now(at 250 he may now be too slow) , even if he doesn't play like one , and Q is a 2(he may be too short 6'6? i am skeptical he is even that tall) , ariza is the only one who really looks like a small forward.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> 5.9 points a game in 17.3 min. for ariza vs. 14.9 in 35.9. for Q
> 
> over 36 minutes its really just the difference of 12 against 15...between Richardson and Ariza, and ariza defends and rebounds better.
> 
> ...


Wow,3 of the greatest minds in basketball have entirely different starting 5's :biggrin: 

I am starting 
James
A Skinny Sweetney
TT
JC
Marbury

and i dont have much confidence in that either.....The only position i am confident about is Center


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

truth said:


> and i dont have much confidence in that either.....The only position i am confident about is Center


I don't have confidence in the center position at all. Frye appears to be soft as a butter milk biscuit. James might have just played extra hard for Seattle last year to get a bloated contract. Like Chuck D would say "Can't trust it".


----------



## nymoorestx (Jul 1, 2005)

I thnk Frye and James will battle it out. If Sweets is in shape the PF job is his


----------



## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Kitty said:


> I don't have confidence in the center position at all. Frye appears to be soft as a butter milk biscuit. James might have just played extra hard for Seattle last year to get a bloated contract. Like Chuck D would say "Can't trust it".


I think when he said "confident about" he meant that he is confident that James will start.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

urwhatueati8god said:


> I think when he said "confident about" he meant that he is confident that James will start.



Yup...I am pretty sure James will start at the 5...Its the rest of the starting rotation that I think is undecided.I cant recall a camp where every position is up for grabs.

We know Marbury will start,but will he ba the 2 or the 1..

JC?? Same question,but theres a chance he could be comong off the bench

Q?? Is he the starting 2 or 3??Or off the bench?

TT??Bench or starter? Could he play the 5??
Ariza?? Starter??

Sweetney vs Frye at the 4?? Could be a battle...

James at the 5?He seems like the only sure bet,as Frye isnt physically ready for the heavy duty post work yet...


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

truth said:


> James at the 5?He seems like the only sure bet,as Frye isnt physically ready for the heavy duty post work yet...


is andrew bogut ready?

the last time i checked frye tested out faster and stronger than bogut, and if bogut isn't startong in nov. somebody in milwakee should be fored instantly.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> is andrew bogut ready?
> 
> the last time i checked frye tested out faster and stronger than bogut, and if bogut isn't startong in nov. somebody in milwakee should be fored instantly.


Grinch,if you are referring to the chicago predraft workouts and thinking that bench press is measure of functional strength for basketball,then i am afraid you are mistaken.When you talk strength,talk to me about the base...Legs,hips trunk,glutes..talk about deadlifts,power cleans,squats....Sweetney was embaraasingly weak when it came to the bench press..try moving him out of the post..


Secondly,mark Aquire openly said Fryes fundamentals on post defense were terrible..clueless as to positioning and spacing..he needs time

Bogut has a much stronger base than Frye..Frye is more athletic,better primeter shooter and SOFTER...Which is why I see Frye playing more at the the 4


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

James-5
Sweetney-4
TT-3
Steph-2
Crawford-1

I'm not sold on Frye getting his butt off the bench this season. He just does not seem like LB's "type of player". I do believe that he will give Nate some minutes, despite LB's past history of avoiding rookies like the plague. How can you not love this kid? Rose (PF/C), Ariza (3), and Q(2) will platoon off the bench. I also don't see Mo getting his rear end off the bench either because he is just plain lazy. I also predict that Lee will crack the Knicks rotation, he appears to be a hard worker that will throw his body around for a rebounds, which is LB's "type of player". He kind of reminds me of Jeff Foster's style of play. I really think Ariza's game will elevate under LB. He will play tenacious defense (damn I sound like Walt :biggrin: ) just like Prince did in Detriot, minus the 3 point shot.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Kitty said:


> James-5
> Sweetney-4
> TT-3
> Steph-2
> ...


thats probably the starting 5...Seems like we may have a problem with Q and Ariza splitting minutes...
you really think Frye sits??? whos the backup 5?


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

truth said:


> thats probably the starting 5...Seems like we may have a problem with Q and Ariza splitting minutes...
> you really think Frye sits??? whos the backup 5?


I hope I'm wrong about Frye, because I really want him to do well. After watching him in the Summer League I soured on his ability to bang down low and that won't fly with LB. As for the back up 5, he may elect to go small depending on the matchup or he just might have to put lazy Mo in that slot for a few minutes. I expect James will play a whole lotta of minutes...so he better leave the twinkies alone!


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

truth said:


> Grinch,if you are referring to the chicago predraft workouts and thinking that bench press is measure of functional strength for basketball,then i am afraid you are mistaken.When you talk strength,talk to me about the base...Legs,hips trunk,glutes..talk about deadlifts,power cleans,squats....Sweetney was embaraasingly weak when it came to the bench press..try moving him out of the post..
> 
> 
> Secondly,mark Aquire openly said Fryes fundamentals on post defense were terrible..clueless as to positioning and spacing..he needs time
> ...


i wasn't aware they tested base stregnth, in fact i'm pretty sure they didn't...but, i figure the shorter and more you weigh the better it has to be all things considered, bogut is taller and weighs less than frye. in all seriousness i think they are both on the slender side for full time banging in the post

i always thought they took bench press as a quick measure to see if you work out, or how naturally strong you are and to what extent.

i saw frye in summer league and he didn't look soft, in fact he was too pyhsical, he got called for good fouls(if there is such a thing) shoving, pushing and contesting shots, as long as he stays away from the dumb ones (jumping over the back and reach ins) , he'll be fine, he has had almost 2 months to hone his post defense technique since summer league. and he'll get another month and a half to work on it before the games count.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> i wasn't aware they tested base stregnth, in fact i'm pretty sure they didn't...but, i figure the shorter and more you weigh the better it has to be all things considered, bogut is taller and weighs less than frye. in all seriousness i think they are both on the slender side for full time banging in the post
> 
> i always thought they took bench press as a quick measure to see if you work out, or how naturally strong you are and to what extent.
> 
> i saw frye in summer league and he didn't look soft, in fact he was too pyhsical, he got called for good fouls(if there is such a thing) shoving, pushing and contesting shots, as long as he stays away from the dumb ones (jumping over the back and reach ins) , he'll be fine, he has had almost 2 months to hone his post defense technique since summer league. and he'll get another month and a half to work on it before the games count.


I think I confused you..sorry..they only measure bench,which is really useless.....It is very interesting that Bogut weighs less and lifted less than Frye in pre draft..But he seems to hold position a bit better.I think Frye is going to make a better pro,but it may come at the 4....

I am very high on him....I just hope he doesnt pull a jarred Jeffries


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

truth said:


> I think I confused you..sorry..they only measure bench,which is really useless.....It is very interesting that Bogut weighs less and lifted less than Frye in pre draft..But he seems to hold position a bit better.I think Frye is going to make a better pro,but it may come at the 4....
> 
> I am very high on him....I just hope he doesnt pull a jarred Jeffries


i agree with you bogut holds position better , mostly because he fights for it more,(which of course led to channing's soft tag, he would drift outside) and was central to Utah's offense, . Arizona really didn't seem to rely on frye to be more than a part time post player and din't run their offense through him.

there are some things about frye i love as a player and some things i am less than enamored with, for instance his jumpshot has a very quick release and is very accurate, that is a weapon in the nba from day 1 in my opinion, even though he didn't use it in summer league , with marbury and crawford , who love to run the pick and roll as well as the pick and pop he'll be able to get his points in the nba right away ,add to that he runs the floor and he should score at least as much as kurt was able to get. 


i think bogut will be better because he is a gifted rebounder, but i dont see that much of a difference in talent.


----------



## BigNasty (Nov 10, 2004)

I would like to see:

Marbury 
Richardson 
Ariza 
Taylor 
James 

with Robinson, Crawford, Thomas, Sweetney, Rose, Frye all playing minutes too.
sod penny...


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> i agree with you bogut holds position better , mostly because he fights for it more,(which of course led to channing's soft tag, he would drift outside) and was central to Utah's offense, . Arizona really didn't seem to rely on frye to be more than a part time post player and din't run their offense through him.
> 
> there are some things about frye i love as a player and some things i am less than enamored with, for instance his jumpshot has a very quick release and is very accurate, that is a weapon in the nba from day 1 in my opinion, even though he didn't use it in summer league , with marbury and crawford , who love to run the pick and roll as well as the pick and pop he'll be able to get his points in the nba right away ,add to that he runs the floor and he should score at least as much as kurt was able to get.
> 
> ...


Do you see Frye at the 4??


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

truth said:


> Do you see Frye at the 4??


i see him as a tweener.

he's certainly big enough to be a 5(in the east there are guys like jeff foster and raef lafrentz who do just fine and they are slightly smaller than frye) and he's skilled enough to be a 4 at his best.

he also could be too soft to be a 5 at his size and too slow to be a 4 in a worst case scenerio. He has supposedly turned the corner on the softness , and he seems intent on proving it from what i saw in summer league. Also there is Isiah who was bent on making the team tougher , it makes little sense to make your top pick a soft guy in the post when you want a tougher team. If he isn't quick enough ....well there just isn't much you can do about that ...players tend to get stronger they dont really get quicker.

i would like to think at this point that some of his weaknesses can be hidden until he fully adapts , for instance teaming him with sweetney who is easily more capable of guarding the more bullish type post players. JJ is only supposed to hold the starting spot until channing is ready anyway...i dont see the point in waiting.I also dont like teaming 2 shotblockers who historically dont rebound well, generally that means getting killed on the offensive boards , Rose really isn't built to guard bigger centers for more than a few posessions, so put Frye next to the guy who rebounds well and is strong enough to guard centers and rebounds the misses channing is suppose to cause with his shotblocking.

in time channing should get stronger and fully adapt to the physicality, i think matures into a full fledged 5, i dont think the #s big z puts up are out of channing's reach 16- points 8-9 reb. 2 blocks a game in a couple of years.


----------

