# 76ers/Raptors game thoughts..



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Bombs away!

That's the approach the Raptors had early, often, and later as they ran away with a 128-110 win over the 76ers. Donyell Marshall tied the NBA record with 12 three pointers, and to think the Sixers were at one point down 63-60 coming out of the half. To understand how bad the third quarter was.. by the end of the quarter the Raptors had 99.

You can't beat teams when they're shooting this hot from the perimeter, but when most of the shots are open looks you have to blame the defense. You would think after Donyell had 18 points on 6 three pointers, you wouldn't leave him open but constantly he was found open beyond the arc after the Raptors moved the ball.

Everything that seemed fixed after the Bobcats game, was proved to still exist. You can buy enhancements, have plastic surgery, but 63 games into an NBA season you can't magically erase your flaws with a blowout win over a bad road team without their starting PG.

We are what we are, and as of right now.. what we are is not a very good team. This isn't a surprise to anyone.

One thing I have to ask, did anyone else (who got to watch the game) see Dalembert picking up his fourth foul early in the third quarter, getting talked to by Jim O'Brien? Well if you didn't, once O'Brien got up and walked away Sammy broke out into a gut busting laugh, and I couldn't help but laugh myself.

I have to hope next season, we have an offensive system, because what we have in place right now does one thing and that's make Iverson's numbers look good. No ball movement, results in players standing and watching, which equals dead possessions. We'll be in for an interesting offseason to say the least.


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## SixersFan (Dec 19, 2004)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> Bombs away!
> 
> That's the approach the Raptors had early, often, and later as they ran away with a 128-110 win over the 76ers. Donyell Marshall tied the NBA record with 12 three pointers, and to think the Sixers were at one point down 63-60 coming out of the half. To understand how bad the third quarter was.. by the end of the quarter the Raptors had 99.
> 
> ...



Yup, same as for the Bobcats game. They hadn't improved the perimeter defense--the Bobcats just couldn't shoot.

Looks like Donyell was trying out for the Sixers tonight.

No excuses anymore, O'Brien. Junk it.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> Bombs away!
> 
> That's the approach the Raptors had early, often, and later as they ran away with a 128-110 win over the 76ers. Donyell Marshall tied the NBA record with 12 three pointers, and to think the Sixers were at one point down 63-60 coming out of the half. To understand how bad the third quarter was.. by the end of the quarter the Raptors had 99.
> 
> ...



great post

however i think that O'Brien needs some defensive adjustments instead of offsensive, the last time the raptors set their record for most 3s in a game (17) was last year vs Obrien and the Celtics


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

madman said:


> great post
> 
> however i think that O'Brien needs some defensive adjustments instead of offsensive, the last time the raptors set their record for most 3s in a game (17) was last year vs Obrien and the Celtics


Ah thanks for that tidbit, I had no idea about that.

Really, I think the complaint from all Sixers fans is that O'Brien doesn't make adjustments in anything. He's way too stubborn in his ways to be successful outside of a short stint as a head coach on this level.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> Ah thanks for that tidbit, I had no idea about that.
> 
> Really, I think the complaint from all Sixers fans is that O'Brien doesn't make adjustments in anything. He's way too stubborn in his ways to be successful outside of a short stint as a head coach on this level.


Yeah it if they played D on Marshall the way that they were in the last 40 or so seconds then you guys would have been in it.

As long as you guys have Webber on your team your in trouble IMO, he is too cocky right now (might change) to be on a team with AI who has/should have the ball 90% of the time. He still appears to be hurt which even limits his capabilties even more and of course his contract dosent help the future


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

last 2 games, its really Williamson, Skinner and a bit of Dalembert who dominated our front court. This time, Bosh was too fast for Webber....


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

madman said:


> As long as you guys have Webber on your team your in trouble IMO, he is too cocky right now (might change) to be on a team with AI who has/should have the ball 90% of the time. He still appears to be hurt which even limits his capabilties even more and of course his contract dosent help the future


I don't think Webber is too cocky, I just think the current offensive system is a joke, because it's like a pickup game, there's no organization no set plays, no anything. Just one guy handling the ball and four other guys are on the court. I find it hard to believe that Webber goes from playing as well as he was in Sacramento to struggling here being his fault. Some may take it out on Webber, but they have to realize that it's an adjustment to fit any player into a team, it's an even harder one when the team is just slop throw onto the court.

Webber's contract doesn't handicap the Sixers, really it doesn't make it any harder to have financial flexibility than if they would've never made the trade to begin with. I think no matter what the Sixers would've had to think long and hard about how much money to pay their own free agents, C-Webb or no C-Webb. Being owned by Comcast helps the Sixers not have to worry about the luxury tax as much as other teams.

Back to on the court, I think even with Webber playing like he is, where he's obviously dragging one leg, you could still function with Iverson handling the ball. Just have Iverson run the break, and C-Webb controlling a lot of what goes on in the half court, it can work. Also let's work the defensive system to help our player's strengths and weaknesses, Webber can't come out hard on players on the perimeter, so don't make him; Dalembert's a better shot blocker than post fronter, let him block shots; Marc Jackson is best at fronting the post, let him do that; Korver's not good when left on an island with anyone who can put the ball on the ground, give him support.

One thing I liked about this game, Samuel Dalembert did seem a lot more vocal out there than usual, but there were so many negatives I could shake a sequoia at them.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> I have to hope next season, we have an offensive system, because what we have in place right now does one thing and that's make Iverson's numbers look good. No ball movement, results in players standing and watching, which equals dead possessions. We'll be in for an interesting offseason to say the least.


I feel for you, but the Raptors went through the same thing with Carter where virtually all the offensive plays went through him while the rest of the team stood, watched and occasionally reacted to Vince's moves. That mentality is still engrammed in several of the Raptor veterans, and the same thing happens when Rose gets the ball. Great entertainment .. poor team basketball. 

Morris Peterson did once say in frustration that: "We have no plays where guys move, we just stand in one spot like we did last year." (Carter only created a situation where everybody got iced and that seems to be the case in NJ too ...)

Perhaps Sixer management should look to moving Iverson to rebuild and rejuvinate the team. Even though AI is great entertainment, I would think that your fans may get a bit jaded with limited hope year after year. Somehow I don't think that the current AI Sixers will suddenly transform into the MJ Bulls of yore ....


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

The Sixers have sucked at defending the three all season. Earlier Seattle destroyed us with a record amount of threes too I think. What the hell is wrong with us?? I hate this defense and this offense and everything!!


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> I don't think Webber is too cocky, I just think the current offensive system is a joke, because it's like a pickup game, there's no organization no set plays, no anything.





> The Sixers have sucked at defending the three all season. Earlier Seattle destroyed us with a record amount of threes too I think. What the hell is wrong with us?? I hate this defense and this offense and everything!!


Is it just me, or do Philly fans catch rabies when their teams start losing?

The problem with the sixers isn't offense, it never was. Getting Webber was stupid(search my posts, I've never said anything positive about the trade), because all of their problems are on the defensive end. They scored 110 points! This team can light up anybody, and are miles ahead of where they were offensively last year, and its mostly because of AI and Obie.

The problem here is that on defense, they're horrible. O'Brien's system is brilliant, in the league that existed three years ago. Any team based on an isolation offense, like most of the good/above average teams were the year when the zone was introduced, gets completely taken advantage of by this system. The problem is, every team adjusted to the zone as it started to get used more against the AI's and McGrady's of the league, and they started to focus on team offenses. Now, every team does that, and it exposes all of the holes in this system.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> Back to on the court, I think even with Webber playing like he is, where he's obviously dragging one leg, you could still function with Iverson handling the ball. Just have Iverson run the break, and C-Webb controlling a lot of what goes on in the half court, it can work. Also let's work the defensive system to help our player's strengths and weaknesses, Webber can't come out hard on players on the perimeter, so don't make him; Dalembert's a better shot blocker than post fronter, let him block shots; Marc Jackson is best at fronting the post, let him do that; Korver's not good when left on an island with anyone who can put the ball on the ground, give him support.


That's excatly Randy Ayer's system(except for the offensive part), and he's doing a great job with it, isn't he? Oh, wait... :biggrin: 

Please don't come back with a "look how O'Brien's doing it" response, I've already posted on it right above this one.



> I hate this defense and this offense and everything!!


You're having a great day, aren't you?


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Kunlun said:


> I hate this defense and this offense and everything!!


I think that's the first time I've ever laughed out loud at something on the internet.



> I hate this defense and this offense and everything!!


Please, don't hold your feelings in. Let them all out, you'll feel better!



> I hate this defense and this offense and everything!!


Just cause I can't stop laughing.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

By the way, AI shot over 50%. What's getting overlooked here is that except for a couple of games, he's stopped jacking up shots completely.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

sliccat said:


> The problem with the sixers isn't offense, it never was. Getting Webber was stupid(search my posts, I've never said anything positive about the trade), because all of their problems are on the defensive end. They scored 110 points! This team can light up anybody, and are miles ahead of where they were offensively last year, and its mostly because of AI and Obie.


Light up anyone? This offense can light up the Bobcats, the Bucks or teams that don't play defense (like Toronto on Sunday), but I'll say they won't light up much of anyone more nights than not. It's easy to target the defense because it's the team's achilles heel, but the offense is nothing to call home about. Webber coming in has helped a ton of people (especially Dalembert offensively) and that alone makes the trade for him a good one, he gives Kyle cleaner looks, and fixes what was usually just a mess of half court jump passes prior to the trade. I give O'Brien credit, for doing what he does, run an offense with no organization, he handed the keys over to AI and let him run with it.



> The problem here is that on defense, they're horrible. O'Brien's system is brilliant, in the league that existed three years ago. Any team based on an isolation offense, like most of the good/above average teams were the year when the zone was introduced, gets completely taken advantage of by this system. The problem is, every team adjusted to the zone as it started to get used more against the AI's and McGrady's of the league, and they started to focus on team offenses. Now, every team does that, and it exposes all of the holes in this system.


There are zones that work in this league, even now, what O'Brien runs for the most part isn't one of them because he plays it every single game. No need for the offense to diagnose what's going on, because you already know what you're facing, and in an age where teams have DVD scouting reports they can watch on the flight from one city to the next that's not a smart way to run your defense. Even if someone wants to call this a zone, it's not exactly an effective one.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> There are zones that work in this league, even now, what O'Brien runs for the most part isn't one of them because he plays it every single game. No need for the offense to diagnose what's going on, because you already know what you're facing, and in an age where teams have DVD scouting reports they can watch on the flight from one city to the next that's not a smart way to run your defense. Even if someone wants to call this a zone, it's not exactly an effective one.


I'm confused as to what this has to do with anything, but my point will be made tonight, when Kobe shoots a low % and has 4+ TO's, and the sixers win.

And O'Brien's defense isn't a zone at all, it's a rotating man to man. plus, if it forces a team like today's lakers to go away from Kobe in order to adjust to the predictable defense, then it's worked. By the way, the sixers are no.1 in forced TO's. not saying that makes it all okay, but it's also not ALL negative. just most of it.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

> but I'll say they won't light up much of anyone more nights than not


because...?



> It's easy to target the defense because it's the team's achilles heel


Well, duh. 



> Webber coming in has helped a ton of people (especially Dalembert offensively) and that alone makes the trade for him a good one,


If they go up to 110 ppg, it doesn't matter when your opponent gets 120, and webber greatly increases the probability of the latter, and moderately increases the probability of the first. DO you really the Marshall would have hit 20 threes against KT?

Of course, any half decent coach says "switch" somewhere in the game, but that's my point.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

sliccat said:


> I'm confused as to what this has to do with anything, but my point will be made tonight, when Kobe shoots a low % and has 4+ TO's, and the sixers win.


I had a point, but I lost it.. I couldn't even tell you what I was trying to accomplish there.



> And O'Brien's defense isn't a zone at all, it's a rotating man to man. plus, if it forces a team like today's lakers to go away from Kobe in order to adjust to the predictable defense, then it's worked. By the way, the sixers are no.1 in forced TO's. not saying that makes it all okay, but it's also not ALL negative. just most of it.


Yeah, I know his defense isn't a zone, I wish he would run a zone to help cover for some of the defensive weaknesses of some players on this team. About leading the league in turnovers forced, I would love that stat, if the team had better rebounding numbers to go with it. Standing alone, with the team giving up the points it's been giving up, it feels useless.



sliccat said:


> because...?
> If they go up to 110 ppg, it doesn't matter when your opponent gets 120, and webber greatly increases the probability of the latter, and moderately increases the probability of the first. DO you really the Marshall would have hit 20 threes against KT?


A good portion of the game Webber was defending Chris Bosh, I'm not going to deny that he had a tough time with Bosh, because he did. Bosh was simply too quick for him.

I said the team wouldn't light up people more nights than not, because most of the offense is predicated on turnovers turned into fast breaks, if that's cut off the offense is severely limited. That's my major complaint about the offense, the looks in the half court are plain stagnant.


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