# Jermaine NOT an All-Star Starter?



## ExtremeBrigs (Jul 20, 2006)

LeBron's obviously staring forward #1, but will somebody beat Jermaine out for staring forward #2? Does he even deserve to start? Whaddya you guys think?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_20172.shtml

Have a great 2007!


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Jermaine O'neal does not deserve to start...he definately deserves to be an ALL-STAR though.


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## ExtremeBrigs (Jul 20, 2006)

I think that's the gist of my article... but I think he's right there if Bosh ends up not being it. We'll see though!


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

ExtremeBrigs said:


> I think that's the gist of my article... but I think he's right there if Bosh ends up not being it. We'll see though!


Give me Jermaine instead of Bosch, any day of the week.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Pacersthebest said:


> Give me Jermaine instead of Bosch, any day of the week.


At this stage in they're careers, no thanks


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Pacersthebest said:


> Give me Jermaine instead of Bosch, any day of the week.



[strike]are you insane? get off the drugs[/strike] cause Chris Bosh is worth ten times more than Jermaine O'neal. *BOSH

*Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are insane or on drugs.

- Pacers Fan*


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

This season JO > Bosh.

Of course he deserves to be an all star, but with Canada showing love for Bosh, and with JO being outside the "radar", Bosh is gonna start.


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## Wayne (May 24, 2006)

Bosh is unbelievably overrated


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Wayne said:


> Bosh is unbelievably overrated


Likewise for J.O.!


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

XMATTHEWX said:


> Likewise for J.O.!


No one overrates Jermaine. The majority thinks he's overrated and sucks, which makes him underrated.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

for all the ****** statwhores out there, Bosh is beating JO, but its not about the stats. It's about passion, and also Bosh can score from anywhere, any way, JO cannot, plus he's a bricklayer from mid-range where Bosh is Money in Da Bank.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

pmac34 said:


> for all the ****** statwhores out there, Bosh is beating JO, but its not about the stats. It's about passion, and also Bosh can score from anywhere, any way, JO cannot, plus he's a bricklayer from mid-range where Bosh is Money in Da Bank.


Jermaine isn't actually that bad of a shooter, he just does it too much.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Wayne said:


> Bosh is unbelievably overrated



you are unbelievably wrong. How many times have you seen Bosh play? I bet zero other than the all-star game where he didnt even get to play much. He is incredible. He can do it all. I'd trade JO for Bosh ANY DAY! Bosh is right up there with the others in his draft class. Bosh can actually be a leader. You see him talking and giving everyone advice on the Raptors bench and sometimes he'll even yell at you and thats a true leader.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Well here are the stats, do with them what you want:

Bosh: 20.5 points, 12.2 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.1 blocks, .4 steals, 73% FT, 46% FG.

JO: 19.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 3.1 blocks, .7 steals, 73% FT, 46.5% FG.

Pretty damn close.

Scoring is basically even, Bosh takes the rebounding, JO takes blocks and assists. 

And for those talking about shooting percentages...well just look for yourself.


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## Wayne (May 24, 2006)

I've seen my share of Toronto Raptors games and I know that Bosh is not as good as Jermaine. Jermaine has always been better defensively, and this year, he has truly been living up to his name. Bosh is wiry and shoots a lot from outside. Perhaps that's why his team always has a losing record. There are so many better PF's that should start over Bosh.


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## Grangerx33 (Mar 9, 2004)

StephenJackson said:


> Well here are the stats, do with them what you want:
> 
> Bosh: 20.5 points, 12.2 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.1 blocks, .4 steals, 73% FT, 46% FG.
> 
> ...


I'd take JO any day.


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## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

Jamison is having a good year. I might sneak him Jermaine in at center, but I would probably have to put Okafor ahead of him


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

XMATTHEWX said:


> Likewise for J.O.!


when have JO ever been overrated? He has never gotten any love.


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

StephenJackson said:


> Well here are the stats, do with them what you want:
> 
> Bosh: 20.5 points, 12.2 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.1 blocks, .4 steals, 73% FT, 46% FG.
> 
> ...


:cheers:


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Wayne said:


> I've seen my share of Toronto Raptors games and I know that Bosh is not as good as Jermaine. Jermaine has always been better defensively, and this year, he has truly been living up to his name. Bosh is wiry and shoots a lot from outside. Perhaps that's why his team always has a losing record. There are so many better PF's that should start over Bosh.



Buddy...shhhh. [strike]Your making yourself sound like an idiot.[/strike] Bosh doesn't have as good as a group around him as JO does and the Raptors (when healthy) are a great team mostly because of CB4. Chris Bosh is worth way more than JO. Bosh is a better player and there are so many better PF's that should start over him? Name 2 and why other than Jermaine. By the way how mant Raptor games have you seen recently there rookie? [strike]If you dont know what your talkin about please shut the hell up.[/strike] Bosh is up there with the rest of the 03 Class and Chris Bosh deserves to start this year and for many more years to come.

*You should know better by now.

- Pacers Fan*


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Auggie said:


> when have JO ever been overrated? He has never gotten any love.



Thats because he doesn't deserve any love. He's no leader.


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> Thats because he doesn't deserve any love. He's no leader.



and thus, he's never been overrated


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> Thats because he doesn't deserve any love. He's no leader.


You're giving him "love" for his defense this year.


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> Thats because he doesn't deserve any love. He's no leader.


Everyone his own opinion but I think you should give him more credits then the way you talk about JO. He desrves better then this, no matter what you think of him.

Just my 2 cents.


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## chulo (Jun 29, 2006)

in terms of the better overall player, i give it to bosh... o'neal is good but i don't think he deserves to start. if you ask me, d. howard deserve a start more than o'neal


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## Wayne (May 24, 2006)

Dwight is even more overrated than Bosh


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

I like Bosh, but no way is he a better overall player than J.O...


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

just go watch a raptors game...then a pacers game then you can get back to me.


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> just go watch a raptors game...then a pacers game then you can get back to me.


Why can't you just accept other opinions. Your opinion isn't always the right one, just like mine isn't.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> just go watch a raptors game...then a pacers game then you can get back to me.


Done and done.

And I still pick JO. If Bosh gained some muscle, he could be insane. In the playoffs, if he is ever there, he will get abused by bigger, stronger forwards and Centers.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

StephenJackson said:


> Done and done.
> 
> And I still pick JO. If Bosh gained some muscle, he could be insane. In the playoffs, if he is ever there, he will get abused by bigger, stronger forwards and Centers.


I disagree. Bosh is a great talent and IMO at this age, he is just as good as O'Neal if not slightly better, and he is what, like 6 years younger? 

Toronto is going to the playoffs this season and we will finally be able to judge him in the playoffs, though you're judging a 22 year old, and Jermaine is still iffy in pressure situations.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

MillerTime said:


> Toronto is going to the playoffs this season and we will finally be able to judge him in the playoffs, though you're judging a 22 year old, and Jermaine is still iffy in pressure situations.


Jermaine has been there though. And he has had some big games in the playoffs. He's had some disappearing acts in second halves, but with someone like Reggie on your team...that's understandable. 

I'm not denying Bosh's talent, and he is young. But he needs to bulk up. He has never been in a playoff game or a game of that level, and until he is...


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

StephenJackson said:


> Jermaine has been there though. And he has had some big games in the playoffs. He's had some disappearing acts in second halves, but with someone like Reggie on your team...that's understandable.
> 
> I'm not denying Bosh's talent, and he is young. But he needs to bulk up. He has never been in a playoff game or a game of that level, and until he is...


Yeah, he's never been in the playoffs before, but this is his first year he's had a good team and their above us in the standings. Bosh will play in the playoffs this season for sure unless TJ Ford or himself get a major injury.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

MillerTime said:



> Yeah, he's never been in the playoffs before, but this is his first year he's had a good team and their above us in the standings. Bosh will play in the playoffs this season for sure unless TJ Ford or himself get a major injury.



Woah, woah, woah. Above us in the standings....nope. They are the 9th seed in the east with a 15-20 while we are 7th with a 19-16 record. The only time they were ever ahead of us in the standings was when they were leading the Atlantic division...with a losing record. Technicalities put them ahead of us in the standings for a bit, but just because they were at a time winning the worst division in basketball with a losing record.

They are not a winning basketball team, and they will NOT make the playoffs because New Jersey will win the Atlantic division.

Again. 15-20 does not = a good basketball team.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Pacersthebest said:


> Why can't you just accept other opinions. Your opinion isn't always the right one, just like mine isn't.



Just sayin man..i would know. I see every Raptor game on tv.
And of course i see quite a few Pacer games. Chris Bosh is a superstar. Jermaine O'neal is a star but no superstar. I know im not always right but for this i am. No offence.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> Just sayin man..i would know. I see every Raptor game on tv.
> And of course i see quite a few Pacer games. Chris Bosh is a superstar. Jermaine O'neal is a star but no superstar. I know im not always right but for this i am. No offence.



You are right, JO is not a superstar. Nor is Chris Bosh. They are both, however, all-stars.

Big difference between all-star and superstar. Chris Bosh is nowhere near a supertar...he is on a 15-20 team and has never been in the playoffs. Superstars are born in the playoffs, all-stars play in the regular season.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

StephenJackson said:


> Woah, woah, woah. Above us in the standings....nope. They are the 9th seed in the east with a 15-20 while we are 7th with a 19-16 record. The only time they were ever ahead of us in the standings was when they were leading the Atlantic division...with a losing record. Technicalities put them ahead of us in the standings for a bit, but just because they were at a time winning the worst division in basketball with a losing record.
> 
> They are not a winning basketball team, and they will NOT make the playoffs because New Jersey will win the Atlantic division.
> 
> Again. 15-20 does not = a good basketball team.


haha my bad. I don't know wtf i was thinking. I think i quickly glanced at the standings and looked at Orlando and for some reason thought that was Toronto. Sorry again for the mistake.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

iNdIaNa31PaCeRs said:


> Just sayin man..i would know. I see every Raptor game on tv.
> And of course i see quite a few Pacer games. Chris Bosh is a superstar. Jermaine O'neal is a star but no superstar. I know im not always right but for this i am. No offence.


Though i agree with you on this topic, i don't think Bosh is that far ahead of even any at all because O'Neal is a great defender. He will probably be first team NBA defense this year, he leads the league in blocked shots and is like 4th in defensive rebounds. The guy is a giant on defense and by far the best defensive center in the league.


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

MillerTime said:


> Though i agree with you on this topic, i don't think Bosh is that far ahead of even any at all because O'Neal is a great defender. He will probably be first team NBA defense this year, he leads the league in blocked shots and is like 4th in defensive rebounds. The guy is a giant on defense and by far the best defensive center in the league.


And if there was a category called "charges drawn" I believe JO would be pretty high on that too.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

MillerTime said:


> haha my bad. I don't know wtf i was thinking. I think i quickly glanced at the standings and looked at Orlando and for some reason thought that was Toronto. Sorry again for the mistake.


Don't sweat it. Before last night Toronto was third in the east playoff standings since they were first in the Atlantic division with a 15-19 record (which I hate). So I can understand if someone sees Toronto third and doesn't bother looking at the record. But the Nets beat the Raptors last night and took the lead in the Atlantic division, where they will stay. I don't understand why the Nets have a losing record as it is.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

StephenJackson said:


> Don't sweat it. Before last night Toronto was third in the east playoff standings since they were first in the Atlantic division with a 15-19 record (which I hate). So I can understand if someone sees Toronto third and doesn't bother looking at the record. But the Nets beat the Raptors last night and took the lead in the Atlantic division, where they will stay. I don't understand why the Nets have a losing record as it is.


The nets will not stay at the top of the "Titanic Division". There playin horrible and with rumours swirling around Carter and with Kristic out for year i Dont know man. The raps are just gettin heated up. They are finally all healthy and ready to take charge of the division.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

Voting as of Jan. 11th-



> Forwards: LeBron James (Clev) 1,774,281; *Chris Bosh (Tor) 684,620; Jermaine O'Neal (Ind) 621,476*; Grant Hill (Orl) 455,018; Paul Pierce (Bos) 442,393; Rasheed Wallace (Det) 358,998; Andre Iguodala (Phi) 316,491; Tayshaun Prince (Det) 252,295; Hedo Turkoglu (Orl) 236,846; Emeka Okafor (Char) 234,542.


Rest of votes- http://www.insidehoops.com/all-star-voting-results.shtml

Keep on voting for O'Neal!


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

StephenJackson said:


> Jermaine has been there though. And he has had some big games in the playoffs. He's had some disappearing acts in second halves, but with someone like Reggie on your team...that's understandable.
> 
> I'm not denying Bosh's talent, and he is young. But he needs to bulk up. He has never been in a playoff game or a game of that level, and until he is...


I don't think Bosh really has to bulk up that much. His advantage over other big men is his speed and agility, the fact that he can take them off the driblle, and get to the free throw line. He's a lot stronger than he looks, and bulking up with just slow him down.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Turkish Delight said:


> I don't think Bosh really has to bulk up that much. His advantage over other big men is his speed and agility, the fact that he can take them off the driblle, and get to the free throw line. He's a lot stronger than he looks, and bulking up with just slow him down.



Agreed.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

Not to add more to this old topic... but i was reading SI's Kelly Dwyer's Player Rankings today and he picks O'Neal one spot over Bosh. 



> *18. Jermaine O'Neal*
> O'Neal took his team to task last week, mentioning how frustratingly average Indiana looks these days, and pointing out that -- even when healthy, and playing its best brand of ball -- this is a stiflingly mediocre team that isn't going to get much better. Few teams deserve the scorched-earth treatment more than these Pacers, and it's never a good sign when the starting power forward realizes it before the team's front office.
> 
> *19. Chris Bosh*
> Though the Raptors have fallen out of the Atlantic lead, they needn't worry much. At the current pace, 38 victories will win the division (seriously), and Chris Bosh is looking healthy and ready to re-earn an All-Star appearance. After missing 12 games to close out 2006 with a bruised left knee, Bosh is averaging 22.6 points, 9.6 rebounds and 2.2 blocks in the five games since his return. Toronto has won three of five, and assuming T.J. Ford continues to hit those jump shots (he's averaging a sound 15.6 points and 7.8 assists on the year), Toronto will be in the fight for a playoff berth.


Link- http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/kelly_dwyer/01/12/player.rankings/1.html


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