# Jamal Crawford=Corey Benjamin, only stupider (if that's possible)



## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

Ok, I know the title of this thread is a huge exaggeration, but I gotta vent here.

After TMac picked up that 5th foul @ the end of the third, Jay went on like an 8 point scoring run and was actually beginning to help us creep back into the game (Ok, we probably wouldn't have won anyway, but it could have at least been less embarassing). Then Bill puts JC (Lord knows why, probably because management is worried that Jamal's agent will come crying to them again  ), and Jamal completely forfits any momentun Jay had given us with his crappy one-on-one game and off-balance, no-buisness angle jump shots. He singlehandedly blew any chance we had to at least make this a respectable loss.

I want everyone to know that from here on out, everything I say about Jamal will be massively biased against him. I honestly _hate_ this guy, the same way I hated Corey Benjamin when he was here. I really think that this team would be much better if Jamal got injured and was out the rest of the season. Maybe I can hire a hitman to break his legs.....


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

It's pretty sad when fans have vendetta's against sports figures. It's only a game, afterall. It's Friday night and we are in here talking about Jamal Crawford. I'm gone.


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## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

*take it easy man, LOL*

Cartwrong needs to sit Jamal for 4-5 gtames at a time the way he did Marcus & Eddy!

So your anger should be directed at BC for playing him equal minutes despite his "me first" attitude.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I for one would like to see what a JC and Rose package would bring because both these guys need to go! I know for one Minnesota would be interested


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

I'm in your boat Louie.

The one thing I have found funny is that Crawford's current struggles are much worse than JWill at his worst, but I don't see the Crawford camp willing to eat their crow.

With the way they dished it out relentlessly at Williams, they now refuse to so much as acknowledge Crawford's slump. What's he shooting, like 15% over his last 6 or 7 games?

And now that Williams is playing well again, they aren't acknowledging his good play. Instead they still find something to nitpick on. Someone just whined about JWill's floor game being weak right now for god sake!

The reason why the team is going with JWill over Crawford should be obvious. JWill at his best is clearly better than Crawford, and JWill at his worst is still better than Crawford at his worst. Just because Crawford at his best is better than JWill at his worst is not logical enough reason to think he's the better player.

Oh yeah, and for all those who RIPPED Jwill for his poor shooting, he is now officially beating out Crawford in FG%.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

> It's pretty sad when fans have vendetta's against sports figures.


I'm just venting; lighten up, man.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

> The one thing I have found funny is that Crawford's current struggles are much worse than JWill at his worst, but I don't see the Crawford camp willing to eat their crow.


AMEN!:clap:


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## Crawscrew (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> I'm in your boat Louie.
> 
> The one thing I have found funny is that Crawford's current struggles are much worse than JWill at his worst, but I don't see the Crawford camp willing to eat their crow.
> ...


Ur kidding about Crawford's struggles and Jay's struggles right? When Jay was struggling he went crying to his mom, Jamal talked with Bill and worked things out, that Jamal's floor game was not decreasing, and for him to stay aggressive, two different ways of handling situations, which is right???...with that said, Jay is coming around, he went 10-10 from the line, and the rest of the stat line looked good (i did not see the game). I am least glad the Bulls are finally being straight with Jamal and saying that they really want him to bulk up, because they are committing to Jay at the point (which is right, he is better ball-handler overall, Jamal has the edge in one-on-one skills, but just barely) The fact is that if Jamal bulks up, which I believe he will, we could one day have one of the most explosive backcourts in the league. I think the Bulls will see how Jamal is bulking up, and if it is not working, u will see him traded, if not, we may see a Jamal Jay backcourt to open the 2003-4 season...Also Jamal is coming out of his shooting slump, which i believe was caused by him pressing too much, whether it be for the bulls or other teams, something Jay went through in the middle of the year, hopefully Jamal will bounce backm like Jay, I believe he will...


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

> Ur kidding about Crawford's struggles and Jay's struggles right? When Jay was struggling he went crying to his mom, Jamal talked with Bill and worked things out, that Jamal's floor game was not decreasing, and for him to stay aggressive, two different ways of handling situations, which is right???...


On the whole I agree with your post Crawscrew, and though I know you are a Crawford fan, I appreciate your overall levelheadedness in the Jay/Jamal debate.

The above quote, however, I must take issue with. In the same way Jay went to his parents and his parents "whined" to the media, Jamal did the same thing with his agent Aaron Goodwin.

Neither handled their struggles ideally, and in fairness to both, their whining was probably blown out of proportion. Both talked with Cartwright like men, and thus far Jay has responded well, and I believe Crawford will respond as well. But each is just as guilty (or innocent?) as the other in their handling of the situation -- I wouldn't say that Crawford has handled it any better than Jay.


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## Crawscrew (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> On the whole I agree with your post Crawscrew, and though I know you are a Crawford fan, I appreciate your overall levelheadedness in the Jay/Jamal debate.
> ...


I appreciate the fact that you see that while I do like Jamal, I'm not stupid and saying that Jamal at his worst is better than Jay at his best...I also agree that the incidents were probably blown out of proportion (as was crawford geting kicked out of practice, it happens all the time) mainly by US. I still believe Jamal can be a solid scorer in the league (i heard he dunked 2nite, was it in traffic, or just on breakaway??)


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
> blew any chance we had to at least make this a respectable loss.


I'm not trying to cause trouble, and I'll change the text if a mod asks me to, but IMHO, that is the single most pathetic statement I've ever heard on this board, and it shows just how far all of us as fans have fallen.

There is no such thing as a "respectable loss".


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*This thread is sad. Jay is becoming more consistent*

and craw well lets just say I hope he shows up for the rest of the season:sigh: 



But in a nite for some reason where both of our gaurds refused to gaurd Tracy McGrady how many times did he come down the court and pop a three I counted at least three times on highlights alone. I went out and watched DareDevil tonight. Very good move by the way. The Kingpin is supposed to be white why was he black, racism!!! J/K Maybe they couldnt find a big white actor? Just speculation


Good night and oh by the way Go Bulls!!:sour:


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## HJHJR (May 30, 2002)

*Re: This thread is sad. Jay is becoming more consistent*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> and craw well lets just say I hope he shows up for the rest of the season:sigh:
> 
> But in a nite for some reason where both of our gaurds refused to gaurd Tracy McGrady how many times did he come down the court and pop a three.
> ...


What was Williams supposed to do? Punch McGrady in the kneecap?


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: This thread is sad. Jay is becoming more consistent*



> Originally posted by <b>HJHJR</b>!
> 
> 
> What was Williams supposed to do? Punch McGrady in the kneecap?


Oh God that is hilarious. How long to ChiBull or one of the other Williams loyalists come on here to attack you?:rotf:


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: This thread is sad. Jay is becoming more consistent*



> Originally posted by <b>HJHJR</b>!
> 
> 
> What was Williams supposed to do? Punch McGrady in the kneecap?


JW tried to, but he couldn't reach that high. :devil:


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: This thread is sad. Jay is becoming more consistent*



> Originally posted by <b>ztect</b>!
> 
> 
> JW tried to, but he couldn't reach that high. :devil:



The sad apart about is that all this is true. I remember one time when McGrady came down, Jw tried yo reach out and contest the shot, too bad he looked like a 4 year old reaching for a jar of cookies on the counter but about 2 feet short to reach it.


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## HJHJR (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: This thread is sad. Jay is becoming more consistent*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh God that is hilarious. How long to ChiBull or one of the other Williams loyalists come on here to attack you?:rotf:


No big deal. I used to tell that joke about Mugsy Bogues. No disrespect to Jay was intended.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*You probably didnt*

but some people on this board are so touchy they will go a bit overboard on harmless joke. Or take every oppertunit to defend a player they like.


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## HJHJR (May 30, 2002)

*Re: You probably didnt*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> but some people on this board are so touchy they will go a bit overboard on harmless joke. Or take every oppertunit to defend a player they like.


So I've noticed. I'm beginning to realize that there might be a very significant anti-Duke bias at work here. I've never seen so many players from one school trashed in my life. Its one of those dirty little secrets no one will ever admit to. But its a sentiment strong enough to cloud some people's objectivity to the degree that they'll go to extreme lengths to find something wrong with any former Blue Devil. But if you really step back and analyse most of what's said against these guys its not too hard to conclude that most of the criticisms are either baseless or grossly blown out of proportion. I think Jay had a point when he said that there's jealousy at work here. Not a _big point_, but a good point nonetheless.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

There are a lot of reasons to dislike Duke, like the fact that Danny Ferry played for them. There are also reasons to state that Jay Williams is overrated, like the fact that he was player of the year nationally and had the distinct privelege of losing that vote in his own conference.

However, I haven't quite seen any reasons to bust up on Jay for being a Bull. If this was the first year of rebuilding, I have a feeling a lot of Bulls fans would be excited about Jay's game.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*I dont like Duke could care less about them*

but I just hate when peopel bash a player or portray a player in a
light simply because he went to a school they hate. This is the NBA he is a bull know that is all that matters. I didnt like Elton when he was at Duke but till this day I shed tears that he is no longer ina Bull uniform.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

> There are a lot of reasons to dislike Duke, like the fact that Danny Ferry played for them. There are also reasons to state that Jay Williams is overrated, like the fact that he was player of the year nationally and had the distinct privelege of losing that vote in his own conference.


Refrain from personal attacks. Consider this your warning. BCH  Danny Ferry is a reason to dsilike do? What has he ever done to offend? Sure, he never lived up to the hype, but many schools have had their flops. And if you think back on it, he was the #2 pick in an awful draft, and still had a much better career than the #1 pick (Pervis).

And the fact that Jay won NPOY and not ACC POY makes perfect sense to a knowledgeable fan. Jay was the best player in the country over the regular season (up until the Tourney, when NPOY vote is made). He had Duke at #1 going into the Tourney and had an amazing season, especially out of conference. He was the logical choice, and thus he swept the 4 major NPOY awards.

Dixon was the rightful winner of the ACC POY as he was the best player on the ACC champion Terps. He barely edged Williams by a margin of 41 to 38 votes. But when players are that close over the ACC season, you'd expect the best player on the best team (Dixon) to win out.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Ferry held out and went to Italy because he thought he was too good for the contract he was offered. He is also a thug and a dirty player. He is a great reason to dislike Duke. I laugh every time I look at his career as an NBA player. ANd please do not even try and compare him to Pervis Ellison. At least Pervis posted a 20 and 10 season. Ferry's best season was a mighty 13 and 4. I guess Pervis got injured and played about 400 less games than Ferry, yet still has more total rebounds.

As for Juan being the ACC player of the Year, I haven't ever heard the line only ACC games count. I guess if you want to try and look at it that way. I prefer to look at it as the best player that happens to play in the ACC. Go figure that the people doing the voting happen to see them both on a regular basis, rather than as a part of the Duke hype machine. Now I am not saying Juan is a better player in the NBA, but it definitely says something about the DUke hype machine.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> With the way they dished it out relentlessly at Williams, they now refuse to so much as acknowledge Crawford's slump. What's he shooting, like 15% over his last 6 or 7 games?


Fact: Crawford shot 50% tonight. JWill shot about 39%.
Fact: JWill outshoots Crawford by .001 currently. (I'm giving this to you.)
Fact:Crawford shoots 39.2 as a starter, JWill shoots 37.2.

Let's just be accurate.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> 
> 
> Fact: Crawford shot 50% tonight. JWill shot about 39%.
> ...


Will this debate never die? Someone let me know when Jamal gets 20 points in a game or gets 10 dimes. He's never done either in his NBA career.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

I didn't see the game because I do things on Friday nights  

But if T-Mac truly had his 5th foul and was guarding our PG, and Cartwright put in Jamal, he's an idiot. It's not Jamal's fault.

He's a jumpshooter. You don't get pissed off because Payton won't post his man up, he'd rather penetrate and dish. You put in Cassell, because posting up is a stronger facet of his game. You don't get pissed at Reggie cause he shoots 3s and you want someone to play the mid-game, you put in Artest. It's the coaches job to pick the players who's talents will win the game for us.

Jamal is a better jumpshooter currently than Jay. Jay is a better penetrator and likes to drive, draw contact, etc. Jamal prefers to shoot 3s, etc. Both have their role. If we need someone to penetrate, then Jay should have been in. THIS ISN'T JAMALS FAULT. BASH HIM ALL YOU WANT, HE DID WHAT HE CAN DO BEST TO TRY AND HELP THE TEAM.

It's such a battle with a lot of you. Give him a chance!


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Let me know when Jamal gets 40 minutes in a game. It's never happened. Jay's already gotten 45 and he's a rookie who has proved nothing.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Let me know when Jamal gets 40 minutes in a game. It's never happened. Jay's already gotten 45 and he's a rookie who has proved nothing.


The fact that Jamal has never gotten more than 7 assists in an NBA game shows me that he's not a pure PG. Or a very effective one for that matter.

The fact that Jamal has never gotten 20 points in a game shows me that he's not yet an NBA 2 guard or a great shooter as so many have claimed.

Surely after 137 NBA games (averaging over 20 minutes a game the past 2 seasons) and 25 starts, isn't it reasonable to expect such totals? Or is it just a matter of Jamal being wronged by the management, by his coach, by the team, by the situation, by the towelboy at the UC, blah blah blah 



VD


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm not bashing him, but Jamal's been here 3 years now. Yeah, yeah, the injury, Tim Floyd, youth, Mars in Taurus, and the International Brotherhood of Freemason have all conspired against him, but I don't see what the fuss is about.

He's an ok player, but I don't see anything exceptional about him. He's a nice jumpshooter and passer and that's about it. He doesn't do anything else particularly well and those things that he does do well he's not earthshatteringly good at.

Much like Courtney Alexander, injury gave both got a chance to step in and show they could take their game to the next level this year and they didn't really do it.

Based on that scouting report, I think he might make a fairly average starter or a very nice sixth man type guy in the NBA. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's also nothing to get so worked up about (either for good or bad), is it?

I'm sorry if people don't like this assessment of where Jamal is at, but I don't see him blowing up and becoming anything special. He's had a chance and hasn't done much with it.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> 
> Surely after 137 NBA games (averaging over 20 minutes a game the past 2 seasons) and 25 starts, isn't it reasonable to expect such totals? Or is it just a matter of Jamal being wronged by the management, by his coach, by the team, by the situation, by the towelboy at the UC, blah blah blah


You've gotta be more realistic, VD... Crawford's had Rick Brunson getting in his way all season!

Ed O.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> 
> 
> The fact that Jamal has never gotten more than 7 assists in an NBA game shows me that he's not a pure PG. Or a very effective one for that matter.


You're right. As a Crawford supporter, the Crawford as a pure PG experiment failed. I'm willing to admit it. Would he still be an efficient PG? Yeah--- with a point forward on the team. Also, with time, I bet Jamal could become an even better PG.



> The fact that Jamal has never gotten 20 points in a game shows me that he's not yet an NBA 2 guard or a great shooter as so many have claimed.


You ask a guy to play pure PG, then you blast him for not scoring 20 a game. Make up your mind, maybe? I don't remember Stockton scoring 20 til late in his 2nd year. This is basically Jamal's 2nd year because he was around for ONE MONTH last year, and played WITH A BUM KNEE. Ever tear your ACL? You run with a limp for almost 14 months, no question. Jamal came back in 10 months and the fans say "not good enough." Very sweet of them.

The most shots Jamal's ever attempted has been 16 this season. Jay's already attempted 22. Who's playing pure PG then?

The fact is, we don't want a pure PG. We want a PG that will win. And we also want a SG that will win. Can it be Jamal? In the one month he had the confidence of being the man, on a bum knee that prevented him from driving and jumping well, he shot 47.6%, and 44.3% from 3pt. 

I promise you, Jamal never spit in your milk. He's not someone you need to villify. Any of you familiar with behaviorisms? Everyone's trying to make Jams a helpless person, and its keeping him from performing. Jams needs someone to teach him competency.

It sure isn't coming from this board. Don't come here Bulls players, we'll offer our first born to you one day and then stab you in the back the next.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> You've gotta be more realistic, VD... Crawford's had Rick Brunson getting in his way all season!
> ...


That's not true. Jay Will has kept Jamal from being the starting PG, when Jay was down Jamal was the starter.

Welcome to the Bulls boards, hopefully you can learn and discuss a lot here.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

jamal is the same age as marcus when he was a rookie, i think i can wait.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> 
> That's not true. Jay Will has kept Jamal from being the starting PG, when Jay was down Jamal was the starter.
> 
> Welcome to the Bulls boards, hopefully you can learn and discuss a lot here.


Guess I didn't lay the sarcasm on thickly enough for you, airety. Do you HONESTLY think that anyone would think that Rick Brunson has been standing in the way of someone getting playing time? That would be as ridiculous as... oh, I dunno, some stiff like Corey Blount getting in the way of Tyson Chandler emerging. Oh, wait; bad example.

And while I appreciate the welcome, I've been posting on this board for a couple months now. Not terribly often (although probably almost as often as you), but occasionally.

Ed O.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

Just so everyone realizes, my post was more of a knee-jerk reaction to how JC played tonite more than anything else, so don't take any of my initial post too seriously.

I do feel, however, that the offense moves much, much better when Jay is on the ball than when JC or Rose is on the ball. And I am starting to dislike Jamal more and more every time he comes out and tries to create one of those stupid-looking one-on-one fallaway jump shots.


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## BullsNews (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> 
> 
> The fact that Jamal has never gotten more than 7 assists in an NBA game shows me that he's not a pure PG. Or a very effective one for that matter.


Jamal has played 30+ minutes 7 times this season, Jay 22 times. Jamal is at 5.7/2.4 and Jay is at 5.9/2.3 in those games... sounds pretty even to me.

In pureness and effectiveness.

Not to compare Jamal with Jay, I'm just trying to understand why so many Bulls fans prefer Jay over Jamal.

In basketball, all things being equal, taller is better. 

As PGs- especially defensive-oriented, Triangle-running, 3-point shooting PGs- Jamal and Jay are pretty freaking even. So why not keep the taller guy and trade the guy with more trade value??????????????



> The fact that Jamal has never gotten 20 points in a game


Shame on you, Vin...

I thought you were a Bulls fan... you should know that Jamal scored 20 in a game earlier this season...


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

> In basketball, all things being equal, taller is better.


One of the alltime dumbest quotes ever stated on this board.

Might as well have said...

"all things being equal, faster is better"
"all things being equal, more assists is better"
"all things being equal, scoring more is better"
etc, etc, etc.

Fact is, ALL THINGS AREN'T EQUAL. Jay is better. And all things being equal, BETTER is better,

Everyone can see now that Jay is better. He has the ability to go off on a given night. Crawford has never done it even once in his career. What makes you think he'll ever start to?


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## BullsNews (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> One of the alltime dumbest quotes ever stated on this board.
> ...


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 


I'm not quite sure what your idea of "everyone" is, but it not must include the people I talk to... but they aren't connected to the Bulls in any way, so I'm sure their unbiased opinions mean nothing...


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## LuCane (Dec 9, 2002)

Im not gonna get into this, but uh.....

If 4/8 is 50%....

5 divided by 11 is .39 now? Damn. 

Whats 4/12 then? 17.5%?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

This thread reminds me of kobe vs T-Mac! 

Both points guards arent there yet! I like jay over Jamal because of the complete offensive game he brings. Jamal is a shoot first point guard, imo and i agree with mikedc. Jamal has had three years. This is jays first! 

I do think there is a duke bias on here that clouds the thinking. Good point, HJHJR. 

BCH is right, Ferry wanted a huge contract and thought more of himself that he should have. 

We have jay defenders and jamal defenders but remember both of them are bulls players so when you put down one over the other, its a bulls player your putting down. 

gettinbranded, a poster can say a statement is pathetic. Thats your opinion about what he or she said, but if you had said, your pathetic, thats different. See the reasoning?


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

Random thoughts:

All this talk about Crawford "bulking up" is a sham. Yes, he could get stronger but his body type will not respond to make him a two guard physically. Even if ERob dedicated the rest of his playing career to weight training do you actually think that would make him a power forward physically? Some kids are just skinny.

It was clear that when Rose went out last night Jay became the "man." As he improves I see a struggle as to whether Jay or Jalen is the guy who seeks to take over games for the team at crunch time. This will create tension on the team similar to the Miller/Rose situation in Indiana. By the way, when Jay gets into the paint it seems something good usually happens. I love it when he attacks the basket and either scores or dish.

Look for Krause to offer the team's first round pick (6th or 7th overall) to the Grizz for Battier on draft day. His defense and hustle is what the Bulls need. His leadership skills won't hurt either. I don't see anyone at 6 or 7 (Reece 
G. or Jarvis H.) who will help the Bulls more than Battier.

By the way, can someone dump that "rapidly ascending juggernaut" BS? It's starting to make me gag. 

It amazes me how much better Curry is playing. The key seems to be his ability to make quicker moves both offensively and defensively. He is quicker off his feet than I thought. If he continues to improve I will need to eat crow about him being a poor man's Robert Traylor.


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## Crawscrew (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Let me know when Jamal gets 40 minutes in a game. It's never happened. Jay's already gotten 45 and he's a rookie who has proved nothing.



Just some info...Jamal got 52 minutes against the Bucks, in an ot loss in Milwaukee, just letting you know...Jay has proved something, he had 3 years of major college experience. The more and more I think about it, Jay was probably more seasoned for the NBA coming into his rookie year, than Jamal was coming into his 3rd (I'm not goin to get into the whole "how many actual seasons has Jamal played" debate). The fact is that Jamal and Jay can become one of the most explosive backcourts in the L. No matter what happens Jamal needs to bulk up, whether to play the point for another team, or in the backcourt with Jay...Also Jamal scored 20 against the T'Wolves this year, for whoever asked that question


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Crawscrew</b>!
> 
> Just some info...Jamal got 52 minutes against the Bucks, in an ot loss in Milwaukee, just letting you know...Jay has proved something, he had 3 years of major college experience. The more and more I think about it, Jay was probably more seasoned for the NBA coming into his rookie year, than Jamal was coming into his 3rd (I'm not goin to get into the whole "how many actual seasons has Jamal played" debate). The fact is that Jamal and Jay can become one of the most explosive backcourts in the L. No matter what happens Jamal needs to bulk up, whether to play the point for another team, or in the backcourt with Jay...Also Jamal scored 20 against the T'Wolves this year, for whoever asked that question


Crawscrew,
You are absolutely right about the Minny game. NBA.com hadn't updated Jamal's career high (and still haven't). I agree with most of your others points. Yay.




VD


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## TellCoby (Jul 21, 2002)

After that No profanity, masked or not - MikeDC game we shouldn't be debating about which of our underachieving point guards is underachieving less. Why don't discuss how BC is an idiot. Krause has given him enough talent to at least put up a good fight every game. But he keeps dicking around w/ the substitutions. 

Cartwright is one killing our chances of winning. He never makes any changes in the game plan. all he does is bring in someone else to pass the ball to Rose. Rose is not a TMac caliber player, BC is moron for trying to use him as if her were.

We need a new coach.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Let me know when Jamal gets 40 minutes in a game. It's never happened. Jay's already gotten 45 and he's a rookie who has proved nothing.



OMG!!!!!

THAT WAS ONE GAME!

Hmmmm....please tell me, what did Williams do in that game?

Oh yeah, the triple double against Kidd.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> 
> The most shots Jamal's ever attempted has been 16 this season. Jay's already attempted 22. Who's playing pure PG then?



Again, that was only one game...

and which game was that?

The triple double against Kidd!!!


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Actually, Jamal played a 40 minute game and a 50 minute game both this year.

Against Cleveland 1/4 (when JWill got hurt), he turned in a 2-8 for 5 points, 4 boards, 7 assists and 7 TOs performance. Probably one of his worse statistical performances this year.

Against the bucks several days later (1/10), he played 50 minutes and logged 16 points on 7-18 shooting, 7 boards, 7 assists, and 0 TOs... probably his best game statistically this seaon.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> gettinbranded, a poster can say a statement is pathetic. Thats your opinion about what he or she said, but if you had said, your pathetic, thats different. See the reasoning?


I just don't want any more emails telling me I'm permently banned.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> And while I appreciate the welcome, I've been posting on this board for a couple months now. Not terribly often (although probably almost as often as you), but occasionally.
> 
> Ed O.


Sorry first time I've seen you post here. And I saw your sarcasm, it's just that it wasn't really necessary--didn't add much to discussions on Jamal, it was just a sharp dig on him.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LuCane</b>!
> 5 divided by 11 is .39 now? Damn.
> 
> Whats 4/12 then? 17.5%?


Sorry, could have sworn the box score said 5-13 (which is 39%)

And 4/12 is 33% silly, what kind of calculator are you using?


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> 
> 
> Crawscrew,
> ...


Same thing happened to me, which is why I couldn't disagree with no 20 point games.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

now this thread doesn't have my comment that some wanted JC traded for a 2nd rounder ...but take a read anyway at the viewpoints expressed . you'll see its not far off

1 thing i found very interesting

vin/superdave argument that JC isn't a pg because his career high in assist isn't high enough ( for stats sake it should be noted jc exeeded the career high at the time of 7 11 times in the 25 games left in the season after 2/22 the day of the thread)

the more things change the more they stay the same


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> now this thread doesn't have my comment that some wanted JC traded for a 2nd rounder ...but take a read anyway at the viewpoints expressed . you'll see its not far off
> 
> 1 thing i found very interesting
> ...


Nice detective work happy grinch


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

I love reading old posts of mine. 95% of the time when I read them I get red and smile because that's all I can do :grinning: 

Boy, I sure was pissed back then that everyone was ready to give up on Crawford. I wasn't even that much of a Crawford fan, in fact I couldn't understand why we drafted him in the 1st round when El-Amin was the better PG their rookie year (ok, I'm from CT so on and so forth blah blah.)

It was that rumored "Crawford traded to the Wiz for a 2nd round pick and the Wiz refused" post that drove me nuts. I think BCH posted. It put me way over the top cause I was sick and tired of everyone trashing and underrating our players when it wasn't completely the fault of the players.

Anyways, that was fun reading. Sorry to everyone I went nuts on back then, I guess hindsight is 20/20


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Nice detective work happy grinch


thanks ...everytime i look at that picture under your name i have to try not to laugh ...that post game tirade made him my favorite player in college football


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> now this thread doesn't have my comment that some wanted JC traded for a 2nd rounder ...but take a read anyway at the viewpoints expressed . you'll see its not far off
> 
> 1 thing i found very interesting
> ...


Alas, the magical 20 games to end last season. Great times eh?

Curry sure followed that performance up well to break out this season. So did Crawford and solidifying his PG duties. What about how well Jalen Rose was playing to end last season? Wow! Oh wait. :no: Curry is not an All-Star (as many assumed), Crawford is no longer the franchise PG (as everyone assumed) and Jalen Rose is a Toronto Raptor.

Yes, how times have changed. Please, please stop analyzing those 'magical 20 games' to end a season.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> You've gotta be more realistic, VD... Crawford's had Rick Brunson getting in his way all season!
> ...


Here's your best post in the whole thread.

$.02


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Alas, the magical 20 games to end last season. Great times eh?
> ...


i find it funny how people argue and change their opinions when convient or how in your case simply modify them.

what if crawford has a 15 assist game in the next week are you simply going to modify your argument to still say he shouldn't play pg?

i can see it now " well scott skiles had twice that once ."

as if career highs meant anything, tony delk career high for points is i believe higher than anyone on the bulls roster over at least the 15 year outside of MJ , does that make him a better scorer than anyone we got?

times change but right is still right and wrong well you know the rest 

so you can say what you will to belittle what was said ,but you said it, no one made you, so deal with it.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> I love reading old posts of mine. 95% of the time when I read them I get red and smile because that's all I can do :grinning:
> 
> Boy, I sure was pissed back then that everyone was ready to give up on Crawford. I wasn't even that much of a Crawford fan, in fact I couldn't understand why we drafted him in the 1st round when El-Amin was the better PG their rookie year (ok, I'm from CT so on and so forth blah blah.)
> ...



WOW, please tell me that's not serious, what complete idiot turned down Crawford for a 2nd rd pick??????????

It couldn't have been Jordan...he would have known he was robbing the Bulls blind. They could have saved a few pennies on Arenas.


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## Potatoe (Jun 17, 2002)

Am I the only one who thinks that Superdave (Hi Vin, didn't know that was you) was fairly accurate.

Crawford is clearly NOT your point guard of the future. His seven assist comment left him open to criticism but I think the point he was trying to make was a good one.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

I still do think that Crawford _can _ run the point, but I don't think that he _should_ on a full-time basis, at least at this point in his career. The fact that we have a much better PG in Hinrich just makes the decision easier. I do, however, believe that Crawford will be a full-time PG before his career is over.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Potatoe</b>!
> Am I the only one who thinks that Superdave (Hi Vin, didn't know that was you) was fairly accurate.
> 
> Crawford is clearly NOT your point guard of the future. His seven assist comment left him open to criticism but I think the point he was trying to make was a good one.


but considering that in the remaining 25 games he had surpassed that career high 11 times (5 games of which he didn't start or play more than 24 minutes) then that would seem to say that he is a pg since apparently all you need is assist to validate or in this case invalidate a claim 

i dont buy it personally in either case as its not in a pg's job description to rack assist but merely to keep the offense moving and make sure the team is getting good shots.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> but considering that in the remaining 25 games he had surpassed that career high 11 times (5 games of which he didn't start or play more than 24 minutes) then that would seem to say that he is a pg since apparently all you need is assist to validate or in this case invalidate a claim
> ...


happyG, stop getting wet over the numbers. The larger point that I am trying to make now is that on his best day passing... distributing... getting teammates involved... Jamal hasn't racked up as many assists as 90% of guards in the league.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> happyG, stop getting wet over the numbers. The larger point that I am trying to make now is that on his best day passing... distributing... getting teammates involved... Jamal hasn't racked up as many assists as 90% of guards in the league.


and that means what exactly ?

does it mean he cant do the job well?

you talk of a "magical 20 games" and yet you base your point on all of these posts on... 1 game 

let me know when any of this gets through to you because logically it has to at some point

and stop exaggerating "jamal hasn't racked up as many as assists 90% of the guards in the league" isn't close to true


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## Potatoe (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> but considering that in the remaining 25 games he had surpassed that career high 11 times (5 games of which he didn't start or play more than 24 minutes) then that would seem to say that he is a pg since apparently all you need is assist to validate or in this case invalidate a claim
> ...



That wasn't his point happy, at least no the way I read it. Dave certainly didn't bring his "A" game that day (smile) and he obviously left himself wide open on that one, but what he was saying is that he didn't think JC is a point guard and JC's low assist totals was circumstantial evidence of that.

At least that's the way I took it.


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## Potatoe (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
> I still do think that Crawford _can _ run the point, but I don't think that he _should_ on a full-time basis, at least at this point in his career. The fact that we have a much better PG in Hinrich just makes the decision easier. I do, however, believe that Crawford will be a full-time PG before his career is over.


Sure, if JC was on a team where it was a necessity to play the point he probably could do a decent job of it, but I think he is far more effective in a less structured role at the 2.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Potatoe</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the thing is I can accept crawford's limitations as a player he is still developing and that player winds up a 2 guard so be it. I dont believe it to be so , but it can happen.

but i'll be convinced more that likely by what I see on a court not likely by a statsheet and surely not by some insignificant one time statistical occurance.

which i dont believe to be proof at all


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

> Sure, if JC was on a team where it was a necessity to play the point he probably could do a decent job of it, but I think he is far more effective in a less structured role at the 2.


He is better as a 2 at this point in his career, but ideally he is better suited to play the 1. He may be a dynamic offensive player at the 2 spot, but he is overmatched physically almost every night. He has the ability to be an excellent PG someday, but he doesn't yet have the maturity or shot-selection to effectively run a team. If and when he does get that, it could create problems for this team if Hinrich continues to live up to (and go beyond) his billing.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Are u sure it wasnt Kwame Brown and the 10th pick for Jamal Crawford


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