# Are the Knicks in a Rebuilding Mode?



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

If the Knicks did not have the 6th Pick in this draft and the great oportunity to trade the worst decision-making guard in the NBA (Jamal Crawford) on draft night, I would understand the same players who received the majority of playingtime during the last 3 seasons still being on the team in August. 

*The Knicks has lacked Team Chemistry for the last 4 years straight because their backcourt of Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Richardson, each have a NBA career history of "BAD Decision Making" on the court.* 

With a new coach and a new backcourt to start the 2008-9 season would've been the start of a rebuilding Knick team. So many losing teams became successful with this move, by getting 3 decent decision-making Guards to bring some chemistry within their 8 to 9 man rotation. 
Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Richardson had 3 years together averaging 30 mpg to do this and failed miserably. 

*The LA Clippers and Indiana Pacers *started their Rebuilding Process early in the offseason by adding a great decision-making quarterback to their roster in "Baron Davis and TJ Ford". 

*Portland* did ouststandingly well last season with PG-Jarret Jack and PG-Blake alongside of SG-Brandon Roy chemistry (great decision-making). This upcomming season Portland will add PG-Bayless to their rotation (He was supposed to be the 4th to 6th Pick in this draft). 

*Houston Rockets* became the best winning second-half team in the league with great decision-making PG-Alston and PG-Bobby Jackson running the show alongside of high scoring SG-T-Mac. The Rockets did this with their Franchise Center Yao sidelined with season ending injury. This upcomming season the Rockets has added one of the top ten great decision-making Point-Fowards to their rotation Ron Artest. 

*The Knicks did nothing to start a rebuilding process on draft night by selecting a SF player that has half the skillz as their last year 23rd draft pick SF-Wilson Chandler.* 

The Knicks were in dire need of PG-Bayless to replace Marbury, or SG-Gordon to replace Crawford, or C-Brook Lopez to replace Curry, from this Draft. For the Knicks not to try and trade Jamal Crawford $7 million contract on draft night for a Pick and player while his value was up, shows that Walsh & D'Antoni know little about this Knick Team and how it let No-Defense and Bad Decision Making SG/PG-Jamal Crawford lead this Knick Team the last 3 years.

Did it make much sense for the Knicks to sign two players to 2 year contracts that are players you invite to training camp to hustle for an open spot on the roster. Both signees are duplicates of "Collins & Nate", but are not as athletic or creative as Collins & Nate.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I stopped reading after you called Artest one of the top decision-makers around...


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Damian Necronamous said:


> I stopped reading after you called Artest one of the top decision-makers around...


Read it right. 

*This upcomming season the Rockets has added one of the top ten great decision-making Point-Fowards to their rotation Ron Artest.*

Artest had to play the Point-Foward in indiana because PG-Tinsley was injury prone. 
When PG-Bibby left the Kings, Artest had to play Point-Foward to win 38 games last season. 

*I just made a point about rebuilding. If your a Artest Hater thats you. But with Artest on the Rockets, that team is just a Peremeter Shooter away from a Championship Team.*


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

The Rockets have been excellent at converting perimeter shots so I don't think another shooter is what they need. To be honest, it was probably a player of Artest's talents. Unfortunately along with Artest's talents comes his utter stupidity and the fact he's a head case. He has the ability to help make a champion or tear it down as well. I tend to believe he'll tear it down with the Rockets because of just who he seems to be as a person; I submit to you the Indiana Pacers, *red flag number 1*.

For several seasons now he has had a prima-donna attitude. I think he tends to overrate his skills as a player and thinks himself a franchise player, which he is not; I recall him make several comments to the effect that he was in the same stratosphere as a Kobe or LeBron which he is clearly not, *red flag number 2.* Because he was not treated like that in Sacramento, he quickly demanded to be traded to a team that would show him the "love" and "confidence" he feels he justly deserves; *red flag number 3.* I think he seems to forget that the Kings was one of the few teams willing to take a chance on his stupid *** in the first place after that brawl. I doubt things are going to be any different in Houston and maybe even more problematic since you have two franchise players already there with Yao and T-Mac. Does anyone remember how many problems he and Mike Bibby had during their time together? *Red flag number 4.* A lot of that stemmed from his funky attitude and the fact that his so called point-forward ability (which he does have) lead to several broken plays and him often chuking the hell out of the ball. 

I'd stay away from Artest. He makes Zach Randolph look like a girl scout and comes with a revved up sense of grandiose because he's from New York, *red flag number 5* for me.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> The Rockets have been excellent at converting perimeter shots so I don't think another shooter is what they need. To be honest, it was probably a player of Artest's talents. Unfortunately along with Artest's talents comes his utter stupidity and the fact he's a head case. He has the ability to help make a champion or tear it down as well. I tend to believe he'll tear it down with the Rockets because of just who he seems to be as a person; I submit to you the Indiana Pacers, *red flag number 1*.
> 
> For several seasons now he has had a prima-donna attitude. I think he tends to overrate his skills as a player and thinks himself a franchise player, which he is not; I recall him make several comments to the effect that he was in the same stratosphere as a Kobe or LeBron which he is clearly not, *red flag number 2.* Because he was not treated like that in Sacramento, he quickly demanded to be traded to a team that would show him the "love" and "confidence" he feels he justly deserves; *red flag number 3.* I think he seems to forget that the Kings was one of the few teams willing to take a chance on his stupid *** in the first place after that brawl. I doubt things are going to be any different in Houston and maybe even more problematic since you have two franchise players already there with Yao and T-Mac. Does anyone remember how many problems he and Mike Bibby had during their time together? *Red flag number 4.* A lot of that stemmed from his funky attitude and the fact that his so called point-forward ability (which he does have) lead to several broken plays and him often chuking the hell out of the ball.
> 
> I'd stay away from Artest. He makes Zach Randolph look like a girl scout and comes with a revved up sense of grandiose because he's from New York, *red flag number 5* for me.



*BULLSHUT!!!!! *

The same was said about Championship Ring Rasheed Wallace. 
Five Championship Rings Rodman. 
And the Knicks last elite player Sprewell (Watch the 99 Videos of Childs, Spree, and Camby in the FINALS).


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Donnie Walsh got BAD LUCK,* he had Isiah finish out the season coaching to get one of the worst records so he could have alot of Ping-Pong Balls, and got stuck with the 6th pick rather than one of the top four picks. Which still was a decent pick to get a Star Draft Player to replace Marbury or Crawford with. 

*All of the offseason decision making seems to be comming from coach D'Antoni (before he went to coach the USA Team). There wil be NO Knick transactions untill D'Antoni get back from coaching the USA Team.* 

If only Donnie Walsh would have hired coach Mark Jackson, the Knicks rebuilding process would have started in a new Backcourt for the 2008-9 season without Marbury or Crawford on the Knicks roster. Coach Jackson would have given Collins & Nate a shot at proving they were worth 24 mpg, if they failed "seeya" on the next team. I believe Mark Jackson would've strive to get the Knicks two first round picks on draft night by trading the Knicks top scorer Crawford. 

*Last Season Nets commentator Mark Jackson and Marb Albert luv to co-sign the Knicks problems in needing a bigger coaching staff for the type of players on their roster and Crawford being like Vince Carter by never letting teammates in on the offense. 
That was the reason why Mark Jackson name kept comming up as the next best coach for the Knicks. He knew all the problems with a wise solution to solve them.* 

*I'm sorry to say this to all the Walsh Fans, but Kiki Vendeweigh should have been selected as Knick President and Mark Jackson should have been selected as Head Coach.* 

If those two people were hired we Knick-fans would've seen a Knick summer League Roster of PG-Bayless or SG-Gordon, with C-Brook Lopez along with last year SF/PF-Chandler, SF/PF-Balkman, and C/F-Morris Randolph. 
The Knicks SL coaching-staff would've been trippled with coaches that fit every element of the game.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

i didnt read any of the posts, but the Knicks better be rebuilding. And to all the impatient fans moaning and groaning, shut the **** up. It seems like you bums would rather have Isiah pull of stupid "blockbusters" to make you feel happy for one minute then snap back to reality when everything backfires, then rinse and repeat

lets give walsh time (they havent even played one game yet and people are already criticizing) and relax.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> *BULLSHUT!!!!! *
> 
> The same was said about Championship Ring Rasheed Wallace.
> Five Championship Rings Rodman.
> And the Knicks last elite player Sprewell (Watch the 99 Videos of Childs, Spree, and Camby in the FINALS).


None of those guys had a prima-dona attitude. In fact, Rasheed and Rodman were often satisified not having to be the man. When the Blazers traded for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Rasheed played the 3 with little complaint despite it obviously not being his position and obviously effecting how he operates because it was in the best interest of the team. Rasheed also has had a fairly good rapport with teammates (save Boutmje-Boutmje and the basketball incident), so you know he would not be a disruptive force.

Rodman was a bench player with the Pistons and gladly accepted that role. With the Bulls he was also very much a role player (albeit a supreme role player) and never thought he was much more than a rebounder/hustler/defender. Rodman was also a cool guy in the locker room; his main problem was the fact that he was a party-goer and very eccentric, which some would consider a distraction to the team.

Spree is a little different. I know he has had an attitude in the past and there were some rumblings about him causing a bit of a disruption in the locker room towards the end of his tenure here in New York. Then again, he accepted the 6th man position when he first got here and consistently ran plays that featured primarily Allan Houston in spite of him being just as good a scorer. As he became a focal point of our team, he also accepted being the defensive specialist and 2nd fiddle tag that came with it.

Again, Artest has had issues being 2nd fiddle having had problems with both Jermaine O'neal and Mike Bibby, unlike his aforementioned counterparts. Ron Artest has had issues with his significance with the Kings, unlike his aforementioned counterparts. Ron Artest is the guy that wanted vacation time on a contender during the regular season to promote his rap album unlike his aforementioned counterparts; notice how teammates never seem to complain after he's trade? Ron Artest is also the guy crazy enough to go into the stands to fight a fan (something so bad none of those other bad boys have done). If this was the Power Rangers, Ron Artest would be Lord Zed while every other bad boy (Dennis Rodman, Rasheed Wallace, Latrell Sprewell, etc) being just harmless Puddies. The guy is very much a cancer and unlike many others that fit the profile, I feel that Artest is unsalvagable. He's the only guy in the league IMO that I would never take a chance on.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> *red flag number 1*.
> 
> For several seasons now he has had a prima-donna attitude. I think he tends to overrate his skills as a player and thinks himself a franchise player, which he is not; I recall him make several comments to the effect that he was in the same stratosphere as a Kobe or LeBron which he is clearly not, *red flag number 2.* Because he was not treated like that in Sacramento, he quickly demanded to be traded to a team that would show him the "love" and "confidence" he feels he justly deserves; *red flag number 3.* I think he seems to forget that the Kings was one of the few teams willing to take a chance on his stupid *** in the first place after that brawl. I doubt things are going to be any different in Houston and maybe even more problematic since you have two franchise players already there with Yao and T-Mac. Does anyone remember how many problems he and Mike Bibby had during their time together? *Red flag number 4.* A lot of that stemmed from his funky attitude and the fact that his so called point-forward ability (which he does have) lead to several broken plays and him often chuking the hell out of the ball.
> 
> I'd stay away from Artest. He makes Zach Randolph look like a girl scout and comes with a revved up sense of grandiose because he's from New York, *red flag number 5* for me.



*TwinkieFoot,* in alot of other Knick Forums you have based what alot of Knick-Fans has been mentioning about Marbury biggest problem is on this Knick Team. 
And for the Knicks to add two more players with the same attitude in "Q.Richardson and Zach Randolph" (reason why they were traded to the Knicks) did not make things better for this Knick Team. 
With Jamal Crawford leading the Knicks in minutes played and scoring last season his Head has swollen-up to believe he also is a Franchise Player. 

*The Big Brass (share-holders) of the Knicks has always wanted the top players with the highest paid contract on the court receiving plenty of playingtime. 
They feel if your not going to play these high contract players than trade them.* 
The Knicks had two HOF coaches that got FIRED because they did not believe in this Knick phylosphy that been going on for several decades (the reason why coach Don Nelson had a short stint with the Knicks).

*P.S.* So coach D'Antoni dont have a chance in hell at using an uptempo run & gun style when all the fast running players on the Knicks are the cheap contract players. 

*Marbury & Crawford *are the highest paid Guards on the Knicks and their decision making in a run & Gun style has failed on every NBA coach they had. 
*The highest paid bigmen*
*Zach* talent and skills are only set for a half-court style of playing. 
*Q.Richardson *could not go another season at the speed of "Nash & Marion" without his back going out. 
*Curry* is lost in a halfcourt style of play, to speed things up without having a leadership PF to let Curry know his position on every play is suicide. 
*Malik Rose *still hate being a Knick, and have'nt accepted that he is not a scorer.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I' m calling BS....*

Nelson got fired because Ewing wanted him gone. It has been very well documented. The comment about what the Knick brass wants is equally unsound. If you secure a high priced guy, you EXPECT him to play and play well. They will ALWAYS be given that chance. Every team is the same. Malik is a solid guy and a solid lockerroom guy. He never complained at SA about not scoring...why would he complain now? He did NOT want to be traded. Overpaid and undersized? Yes. Bad guy? No.

We are rebuilding and it will take a couple of years to get the roster where it needs to be. Although I generally enjoy your posts, most of what you post the last few months is venomous opinions disguised as facts, and opinions based on nothing other than these "facts". For the last friggin time, DG was drafted at PF, not SF. He is far more talented than Chandler even if he was drafted as a SF. Most mock drafts had him between 4 and 8...and that is without working out for teams. How does that make D'Antoni and Walsh "idiots"?

I know you are frustrated but when your posts sound more like another team's fan trolling than a NY fan, you may want to look at your own agenda. Why not enlighten me and tell me what your plan would have been? Jackson as coach? Nobody else chose him either. Ewing as a bigman coach? I'm not impressed. What about GM? Kiki? uh huh. What about your draft picks? Trades? What does your team look like? I can only assume you will be around this season to eat your words and admit to your mistakes. If I am wrong, I will be.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: I' m calling BS....*



alphaorange said:


> Nelson got fired because Ewing wanted him gone. It has been very well documented. The comment about what the Knick brass wants is equally unsound. If you secure a high priced guy, you EXPECT him to play and play well. They will ALWAYS be given that chance. Every team is the same. Malik is a solid guy and a solid lockerroom guy. He never complained at SA about not scoring...why would he complain now? He did NOT want to be traded. Overpaid and undersized? Yes. Bad guy? No.
> 
> We are rebuilding and it will take a couple of years to get the roster where it needs to be. Although I generally enjoy your posts, most of what you post the last few months is venomous opinions disguised as facts, and opinions based on nothing other than these "facts". For the last friggin time, DG was drafted at PF, not SF. He is far more talented than Chandler even if he was drafted as a SF. Most mock drafts had him between 4 and 8...and that is without working out for teams. How does that make D'Antoni and Walsh "idiots"?
> 
> I know you are frustrated but when your posts sound more like another team's fan trolling than a NY fan, you may want to look at your own agenda. Why not enlighten me and tell me what your plan would have been? Jackson as coach? Nobody else chose him either. Ewing as a bigman coach? I'm not impressed. What about GM? Kiki? uh huh. What about your draft picks? Trades? What does your team look like? I can only assume you will be around this season to eat your words and admit to your mistakes. If I am wrong, I will be.


for the most part i have to agree .

walsh has only made 3 moves 

drafting Galineri(as of now it looks like a good move bad back and all)

Signing Duhon (excellent move, I dont think people understand how badly this team needs guys who are extremely team oriented, and he'll start )

trading balkman (bad move but its not the end of the world Chandler has already bypassed him and no bench player not named havlicek is going to make or break a coach's or GM's tenure)

you just need more than an offseason to put a real stamp on a team but its a good start , I would like to see some things that I'm not going to see like the knicks get involved in the Ben gordon sweepstakes,and would have loved to have seen the knicks get involved in some earlier opportunities this offseason, instead of continuing a really bad plan for summer 2010, that just keeps getting worse all the time , with The Euro getting stronger its possible to have to fend off the Euro leagues too for free agents in the summer of 2010.

But off of what has been done so far its just hard to have strong feelings of ineptitude because he has only done 3 things, and 2 of those 3 have been pretty good .


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I tend to agree about '10*

I do not think it wise to put all eggs in the LJ basket. I don't like having the majority of the cap tied up in one contract. I prefer to have a talented BALANCED team. None of the other FAs are worth this sacrifice, either. I'd rather try to accumulate picks and hope to hit it big on one or two of them. Gordon could have been a nice piece but not for what he wanted.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> *TwinkieFoot,* in alot of other Knick Forums you have based what alot of Knick-Fans has been mentioning about Marbury biggest problem is on this Knick Team.
> And for the Knicks to add two more players with the same attitude in "Q.Richardson and Zach Randolph" (reason why they were traded to the Knicks) did not make things better for this Knick Team.
> With Jamal Crawford leading the Knicks in minutes played and scoring last season his Head has swollen-up to believe he also is a Franchise Player.
> 
> ...



For the most part, I've stopped making excuses for Marbury. I don't think he's a good fit for this current team, especially at his price tag, and should be traded. That doesn't mean that I feel he can't contribute to a winning team. On a team of shooters that play defense, I think he could be an all-stareqsque. Unfortunately the Knicks are not that and he's too old to bother retooling our personnel around.

I don't know the point your trying to make with the rest of your post, so I won't comment. We've had this discussion about Knick players already and you already know I completely disagree, so why bring it up and for what reason?


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> *Donnie Walsh got BAD LUCK,* he had Isiah finish out the season coaching to get one of the worst records so he could have alot of Ping-Pong Balls, and got stuck with the 6th pick rather than one of the top four picks. Which still was a decent pick to get a Star Draft Player to replace Marbury or Crawford with.
> 
> *All of the offseason decision making seems to be comming from coach D'Antoni (before he went to coach the USA Team). There wil be NO Knick transactions untill D'Antoni get back from coaching the USA Team.*
> 
> ...


The entire post is pure speculation. Has Mark Jackson even gotten any calls beside the Knicks after he got passed on for the job? Might be a reason for that and it's because he wants to be a head coach without ever having to prove he deserves to be....kinda like how our current coach has.

I also don't particularly care for Gordon or Lopez who I feel will be role players at best. We got plenty of guys that can do what they do and are looking at a much larger picture rather than a single draft.


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