# Best besides UCONN.



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Best teams besides UCONN just have to be North Carolina, Kansas, Missouri, and Arizona.

In terms of flat out experience not many teams have players like Paulding and Johnson on Missouri. If they can get a few shooters on the floor and if McKinney can become a better PG Missouri could easily win the Big 12.

Really surprised not many people are talking about Arizona. The team has a solid shot blocker in Frye, wonderful athlete in Adams that could explode onto the college basketball scene this year. And Andre is one of the best defenders in the nation and Shakur is a special PG.

Kansas obviously has a solid team and should get great production from there freshman.

Then we have North Carolina and I would say they are more talented than Duke. They just have more stars on the team. If they can get some depth in the post besides May they could be very good. Raymond Felton is easily the most talented PG in the nation and there is no reason on earth that UNC should not make the tournament.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

all 4 of those are at least sweet 16 teams (prolly elite 8, but nothings guarenteed), but i like kansas alot. them and duke I just have good feelings about. Duke, I just love this season. They surprised me last yr how well they were for it being a rebuilding this yr, now they have a solid recruiting class coming in. And their other players are 1 year better now

KU loses it's 2 best players. But I'm a huge Miles fan, he is one of the elite PG's in the nation. Also Simien, if he stays healthy, 1st team all american candidate. Don't forget their incoming freshman, either. People really underestimate the power of 1st year players...


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

I really think wake has at least a 50/50 shot at winning the ACC again. They don't have a true Super-Star, but every player in the entire starting line-up is well above average, and then they have diaper dandy Chris Paul as the first guy off the bench.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I think this is the year Arizona gets beat in the 1st or 2nd round this year like in 1993 by Steve Nash and Santa Clara, 1995 by Devin Davis and Miami (OH) and 1999 by Ryan Humphrey and Oklahoma.

I think they do real well in the regular season and will go down on the 1st weekend. I can just feel it.


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

I think Duke's easily better than UNC...Missouri's talented but they have no discipline (Unless they got some this offseason, which I doubt since it hasn't happened yet...) If they learn how to play more as a team they'd be unbeatable IMO...


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

*best team besides uconn?*

i love implied questions,implying that uconn is the best and then it goes unchallenged.i would argue that duke is as good and florida is right there.duke has more talent than unc,an argument could be made that ray felton is the best player of the two teams but nba types would take deng and maybe even randolph.as for the gators it all depends on christian drejer who now that he's healthy may just move himself into a top 10 pick.roberson,walsh and lee are super college players.i like uconn but i'm not ready to hand them anything,not yet.


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## Pistolballer (May 9, 2003)

yay for Kansas!


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Arizona is going to be a pretty good team, but not a consistant team. They have the players to lead the nation in scoring again, but they are very young. 

The one thing Arizona wont be lacking is defense. Unlike last season UA is going to get after some people and had Ebi not gone pro, we would have seen Arizona's version of "40 Minutes From Hell".

All in all, once the tourney rolls around UA will be ready to go. The best thing about this team is they are not one fo the top 3 teams. I think theyw ill play much better with less media attention. They are going to lose 5 or 6 games I believe, but come March everyone better watchout.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Well OZZY, this is not the NBA, you cannot "go out and get" some talent in the post. They have not got any, simple as that.
> 
> I disagree that UNC Is more talented then Duke, especially if we go 7 deep.
> 
> UNC will make the tournament - but I just have a hard time elevating UNC into my elite eight, when all those teams return supreme talent from teams that performed last year, compared to UNC's which did not . I know the May effect and the Doherty effect, but we cannot totally disregard that fact.


So players can't improve over time? Thats news to me..



> I really think wake has at least a 50/50 shot at winning the ACC again. They don't have a true Super-Star, but every player in the entire starting line-up is well above average, and then they have diaper dandy Chris Paul as the first guy off the bench.


Yeah they could win the ACC, but I don't think it will happen but it could.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> So players can't improve over time? Thats news to me..


That wasn't said nor implied. I specifically said the teams above them had supreme returning talent as well.

Duke
Michigan St
Florida
Kansas
Syracuse
UConn
Arizona
Missouri

All teams that have arguably as much if not more returning talent as UNC, and all had much better teams last years. And in the case of Duke, Michigan St, Kansas, Arizona, Missouri, UConn, and Syraucse, prime recruits are coming into the program, while UNC is getting in nobody. 

So are you saying only UNC players will improve to make up the gap?

UNC is a top 15 team, but not top 8 IMO.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

As much as I hate them, Duke is just as good and may even be better than UConn. They have incredible depth at every position and will be a force to reckon with. Their new freshman, Luol Deng is the best player on their team, and all of the Duke players have admitted to that. He may be the second coming of Grant Hill with his incredible all-around game.

Don't be surprised if my Bearcats sneak into the Top 10 this year, they have a very solid team and will rebound from last year's lackluster effort.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> That wasn't said nor implied. I specifically said the teams above them had supreme returning talent as well.
> ...


I'd agree with those. And I would put Gonzaga in the top 10, outside of the loss this week. Once everyone is healthy I think that they will be the best team in the Northwest


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

for preseason, i think uconn has to be the best team. i really don't think duke is going to be as good as people think. 

after duke i think texas is right there. of course i am a texas fan, but texas is going to be very good this year even without ford. they are good 10 deep. they will be the best rebounding team in the country.

pg - ivey/moreno
sg - mouton/taylor
sf - harris/tucker
pf - buckman/boddiker
c - thomas/klotz

this is the lineup they used in the opener against brown(buckman was hurt so tucker played so pf too). i expect the starting lineup to end up being ivey/taylor/mouton/buckman/thomas. texas can match any team in the country in depth and experience and they are full of shooter. tucker in his first college game had 18 points and 11-12 rebounds. texas will be just as good as they were last year if not better(even though they lost ford).

also cincinatti will be a top 5-10 team. north carolina will also be a top team, but their most important player is going to sean may not raymond felton.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> As much as I hate them, Duke is just as good and may even be better than UConn. They have incredible depth at every position and will be a force to reckon with. Their new freshman, Luol Deng is the best player on their team, and all of the Duke players have admitted to that. He may be the second coming of Grant Hill with his incredible all-around game.


 Leadership wise they are really going to miss Jones. They could be a great team if Duhon plays up to his ability and if Deng is really productive and takes a leadership role on the team like Melo did last year with Cuse.

And yeah I forgot about Texas, they will obviously be good but I don't think they are a top 5 team yet. Still need to prove they can play without FJ Ford.



> also cincinatti will be a top 5-10 team


 I really hope Cinnci is good but looking at the roster it is not all that great, James White is going to have to put up like 15-20 points a game for that team to compete at a very high level. And by high level I mean National Championship contenders.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Everyone is forgetting that Cincinnati has Robert Whaley on the team now. There was a time where he was ranked higher than Curry, Chandler, Brown and Diop. He was a terrific player till off-court problems took him out. He is back now and if Hug can light a fire under him and keep him in line the Bearcats might be real dangerous.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Hopefully Whaley won't kidnap his roommate, tie him to a chair and torture him with a lighter. That might get him some extra wind sprints at Cincy.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Hopefully Whaley won't kidnap his roommate, tie him to a chair and torture him with a lighter. That might get him some extra wind sprints at Cincy.


Hopefully not. :uhoh: :uhoh:


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

Texas is at best 3rd in the Big 12 at this point in the season, IMO....they have to prove they can replace T_ Ford before you put them anywhere near the top 5....


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> Texas is at best 3rd in the Big 12 at this point in the season, IMO....they have to prove they can replace T_ Ford before you put them anywhere near the top 5....


they are never going to be able to replace ford. but i think that they have made up for the loss with their additions and will be as good as they were last year.

why is it that most people think that kansas will have no problem replacing hinrich, collison, and adjusting to their new coach and syracuse will have no problem replacing anthony, but then they put texas down at around number 15? texas has depth and experience equal or better than those teams and the talent is there too.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> 
> they are never going to be able to replace ford. but i think that they have made up for the loss with their additions and will be as good as they were last year.
> ...


Well, I personally think Cuse is gonna have a drop-off this year. As for Kansas, one of the big reasons is getting back Simien, a legit 1st team AA candidate. So with him they basically have 4 starters from last year's team. They've also added maybe the finest recruiting class in the country. They'll probably drop some games early because of a new system and being so young, but if things gel and Wayne can stay healthy this is one of the elite teams in America. Texas is going to be good, but I still see them behind Mizzou (as long as Quin can get them to play, and if they can figure out the point guard mess) and Kansas in the Big 12, definitely.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I'd bet $50 right now that the Big XII champ will be decided between Texas and Kansas. Unfortunately for KU, we gotta head down to Austin this year, and that place will be rockin' like it was two years ago. UT has so much quality depth it's scary, and I think Ivey will do at least as good of job at point guard as J-Mac at Mizzou.

OU on the other hand looks a bit weaker than advertised, IMO. It's somewhat of a rebuilding year for them. Then again, Kelvin's teams are never short on toughness, and they'll win 20+ games this year, head to the tourney, be a tough out in the dance and build expectations for next year -- and next year they'll be very TOUGH.


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## stan.6 (Oct 30, 2003)

*vinney*

I've got your fiddy and then some. I'll stop the name calling but your loyalty to KU clouds your judgment. 

IMO you should never mess with Duckets and hoops (unless you can afford it of course)


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

The last time you said my "loyalty to KU clouded my judgment" I brought out the stats and Sagarin ratings to prove my point. You were nowhere to be found for a long while after that.

By the way, is everyone who thinks that MU won't finish in the top 2 in conference this year "clouded by their team's loyalty"? Or are they perhaps making their judgments based on the fact that Quin Snyder has never finished higher than 5th in the league, Randy Pulley will likely not see one minute of court time this year due to his lack of JUCO credits (and thus MU will be without the point guard they had planned on having all summer), the fact that KU returns a team with its core group of players fresh off back-to-back Final Fours and back-to-back conference titles (in addition to a top 3 recruiting class), or the fact that UT, while losing Ford, still has arguably the deepest and most experienced team in the nation and is also fresh off a Final Four and knows what it takes to win?

Nah. Everyone who doesn't invest full faith in MU winning the league this year must be delusional.


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## budd1e_lee (Nov 19, 2003)

how can you say they return their core group?!?! collison and heinrich are gone... that was THE core, not part of it, all of it. Simien was hurt all year, miles cannot not shoot a lick, and lee is TERRIBLE


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> I brought out the stats and Sagarin ratings to prove my point. You were nowhere to be found for a long while after that.




 Did you not read my response in that thread concerning the Sagarin ratings - they were the ratings AT THE END OF LAST YEAR. They mean absolutely nothing, and you really should stop bringing it up.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>budd1e_lee</b>!
> how can you say they return their core group?!?! collison and heinrich are gone... that was THE core, not part of it, all of it. Simien was hurt all year, miles cannot not shoot a lick, and lee is TERRIBLE


i think he meant that the core of the team this year is returning from a final four last year, not that the core from last year is returning.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>budd1e_lee</b>!
> how can you say they return their core group?!?! collison and heinrich are gone... that was THE core, not part of it, all of it. Simien was hurt all year, miles cannot not shoot a lick, and lee is TERRIBLE


Lee isn't terrible, but he's most definitely only a role player. But he's very good at his role and as a 6th man he's fantastic. Yes, Simien was hurt all last year, but while he was healthy he was a beast, and all things point to it being more of the same this year, only he'll be the focal point for KU's offense and the opponent's defense. And no, Miles doesn't have a perimeter game, but he's a terrific distributor, floor general, and is one of the best defenders in the conference, he makes up for his lack of a viable 3 pter in other facets of his game. And Langford should have a huge year as well.


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

> why is it that most people think that kansas will have no problem replacing hinrich, collison, and adjusting to their new coach and syracuse will have no problem replacing anthony, but then they put texas down at around number 15? texas has depth and experience equal or better than those teams and the talent is there too.


Probably because point guards run the team. I do however think 15 is a little low for them.... 8-10 is where I'd put them right now.



> OU on the other hand looks a bit weaker than advertised, IMO. It's somewhat of a rebuilding year for them. Then again, Kelvin's teams are never short on toughness, and they'll win 20+ games this year, head to the tourney, be a tough out in the dance and build expectations for next year -- and next year they'll be very TOUGH.


I agree....they could be as good as advertised, but I don't know if they will, because Bookout has an injured shoulder that might require surgery and sideline him for the year :sigh: 

This is definitely a rebuilding year, and I expect them to be back in contention for a championship in 2 years (Bookout and Alexander will be seniors) if not sooner. Half their team is freshman, and the 2 best players are sophomores, after all.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> how can you say they return their core group?!?! collison and heinrich are gone... that was THE core, not part of it, all of it. Simien was hurt all year, miles cannot not shoot a lick, and lee is TERRIBLE


KU's core group is Miles, Langford and Simien. Graves and Lee are accoutrements. The freshman class is dessert.


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> KU's core group is Miles, Langford and Simien. Graves and Lee are accoutrements. The freshman class is dessert.


Yep. 2 guys who should contribute A LOT, and could both see time in the starting lineup...I haven't seent Padgett play, but Giddens is a STUD...


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## Fromthasouth (Nov 19, 2003)

Uconn shouldnt be #1 unless they get Charlie.
I think Mich st is the best, they play harder than uconn, they are ext deep!! And IMO have a better coach


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## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> Everyone is forgetting that Cincinnati has Robert Whaley on the team now. There was a time where he was ranked higher than Curry, Chandler, Brown and Diop. He was a terrific player till off-court problems took him out. He is back now and if Hug can light a fire under him and keep him in line the Bearcats might be real dangerous.


He's still rated higher than Diop.

As for the good teams this year...I think Michigan State should be getting a lot of mention and it isnt. Few people are mentioning Gonzaga, even though Stepp is back (though SI has them ranked 4th or something insane)

Duke wont have a leadership problem. Ewing and Duhon are veterans (or as veteran as you can be). Only 1 freshman will get lots of time, everyone from last year will be better. Randolph will make a push to be All ACC (watch, he'll be one of the nation's most improved players - he played hurt almost all of last year).

Kansas isn't deep enough. After their big 3, they dont have much of a bench, unless they have recruited a bunch of guys I haven't heard of.

Texas is going to win the Big12.

While Arizona may be the most talented Pac-10 team, Stanford may end up being the better team.

Two teams I would have thought would have gotten more mention this year were Michigan and Georgia Tech. I figured they would be okay this year. But not a lot has been said about them. I think Michigan played well at the end of the year last year and could possibly surprise some people.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Springsteen</b>!
> 
> Two teams I would have thought would have gotten more mention this year were Michigan and Georgia Tech. I figured they would be okay this year. But not a lot has been said about them. I think Michigan played well at the end of the year last year and could possibly surprise some people.


Georgia Tech has no size, so no one really knows how good they will be though they do have tremendous wing play.

Michigan is eligible for the tournament now, but I don't think they are one of the best teams in the tournament. I see them getting between a 5-11 seed. They could be really really good or pretty good.


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## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> Georgia Tech has no size, so no one really knows how good they will be though they do have tremendous wing play.
> ...


Just to clairify, I sort of mentioned those 2 teams off topic. SI didn't have GT in the top 64 and nobody speaks of Michigan. Dont think they'll be top 20 teams either of them. Just starting some discussion is all.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Springsteen</b>!
> Kansas isn't deep enough. After their big 3, they dont have much of a bench, unless they have recruited a bunch of guys I haven't heard of.


Kansas has one of the top 3 recruiting classes in the nation coming in, possibly the best. David Padgett is added to the frontline, whom Telep ranked as the 4th best HS player in the country last year (2nd among those who went to college). J.R. Giddens is another impact freshman coming in, about 6'5'' with a crazy wingspan and a 45 inch vert, as well as a good stroke (albeit somewhat inconsistent, but I believe he shot 40%+ from 3's in HS). He was ranked in the top 25 in every list and top 15 in most. Jeff Graves showed some promise at the end of last year and will be a great addition off the bench, as will Mike Lee. On top of this the buzz is Jeff Hawkins might actually be playing good enough to warrant a starting spot, and certainly good enough to get some minutes, a very nice surprise. The Kansas bench is much deeper than last year's. It'll probably take a little while to gel but I don't see Texas beating both Kansas and Mizzou for the Big 12 title. It's possible, Mizzou's got a mess at the PG spot and Quin's never accomplished anything better than 5th in the conference, and Kansas is young and has to adapt to a new system, but I think they both have higher talent and more importantly have star calibur players to a greater extent than Texas.


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## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Kansas has one of the top 3 recruiting classes in the nation coming in, possibly the best. David Padgett is added to the frontline, whom Telep ranked as the 4th best HS player in the country last year (2nd among those who went to college). J.R. Giddens is another impact freshman coming in, about 6'5'' with a crazy wingspan and a 45 inch vert, as well as a good stroke (albeit somewhat inconsistent, but I believe he shot 40%+ from 3's in HS). He was ranked in the top 25 in every list and top 15 in most. Jeff Graves showed some promise at the end of last year and will be a great addition off the bench, as will Mike Lee. On top of this the buzz is Jeff Hawkins might actually be playing good enough to warrant a starting spot, and certainly good enough to get some minutes, a very nice surprise. The Kansas bench is much deeper than last year's. It'll probably take a little while to gel but I don't see Texas beating both Kansas and Mizzou for the Big 12 title. It's possible, Mizzou's got a mess at the PG spot and Quin's never accomplished anything better than 5th in the conference, and Kansas is young and has to adapt to a new system, but I think they both have higher talent and more importantly have star calibur players to a greater extent than Texas.


That loud fart you all just heard was me losing my credibility. 

I actually knew about Padgett but I knew nothing about those other guys. Thanks, I just learned more than I did all day at school.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

1. OU will be freaking good next year.
2. The Big 10's guards are ridiculously talented.
3. How long will the PAC-10 be down?
4. Nevada should be ranked.
5. Kirk Snyder has NBA written all over him.


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