# Just Checked The Standings... (01/22/12)



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

...don't look now, Lakers, but 18 games in, you are out of the playoffs, and in 10th place in the conference.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

not alarmed yet. but things gotta get better soon. we just aren't deep enough.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

It's early. Less than a week ago we were the #2 seed.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I agree with LakerFreak. This is a team that has also played the most demanding schedule in the league thus far, I believe. Over 1 game per week more than LAC. (or one fewer day off per week, to make that more pertinent)


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

they hadnt had 2 days off in a row until last week - this week they get two 2 day breaks - and it's not just about rest, it's also about lack of practice


let's see how they look by the end of the month - between now and then in addition to a little more practice time they have the clippers followed by 3 very winnable games (Mil, Min, Cha)

and ps there are 3 teams tied for that 8th spot including the Lakers (that's not the same as being in 10th) a quibble I know but still...


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

e-monk said:


> they hadnt had 2 days off in a row until last week - this week they get two 2 day breaks - and it's not just about rest, it's also about lack of practice
> 
> 
> let's see how they look by the end of the month - between now and then in addition to a little more practice time they have the clippers followed by 3 very winnable games (Mil, Min, Cha)
> ...


I did it by percentages...maybe they are tied with the .567 teams, I don't know, didn't check, but their percentage is .556.

I am not all that alarmed, except for the fact that they have played consistently horribly in the 4th quarter of games both won and lost this year.

A true sign that age is indeed a problem.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Good thing we're not in April, eh?


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## Headliner (Aug 11, 2011)

Well, that's what happens when the coach basically allows Kobe to run the offense while he does the defense. Kobe is proving that he's still the best player in the world, but it's costing his team victories.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Kobe is not the best player in the world and his play isn't costing the Lakers anything. He's doing what is necessary because this team sucks.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

nvm


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Hdlr said:


> Well, that's what happens when the coach basically allows Kobe to run the offense while he does the defense. Kobe is proving that he's still the best player in the world, but it's costing his team victories.


pfft

Im no Kobe apologist but that's a load - there have been a couple games (like the second half of the cleveland game) where Kobe has forced it but that's not what I've been seeing during this slide (the Lakers were 3-1 during Kobe's 40ppg run btw) - right now Kobe is the only thing they've got going for them (unless you want to count Pau bricking wide open 15 footers all day)


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## Headliner (Aug 11, 2011)

VanillaPrice said:


> Kobe is not the best player in the world and his play isn't costing the Lakers anything. He's doing what is necessary because this team sucks.


Name an NBA player that's better than Kobe Bryant. 


e-monk said:


> pfft
> 
> Im no Kobe apologist but that's a load - there have been a couple games (like the second half of the cleveland game) where Kobe has forced it but that's not what I've been seeing during this slide (the Lakers were 3-1 during Kobe's 40ppg run btw) - right now Kobe is the only thing they've got going for them (unless you want to count Pau bricking wide open 15 footers all day)


They don't have much of an offensive system. It's the same problem with the Knicks. Both of their offensive strategies are "give the ball to Kobe/Melo". You can't expect to win a ring like that.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

ChrisWoj said:


> I agree with LakerFreak. This is a team that has also played the most demanding schedule in the league thus far, I believe. Over 1 game per week more than LAC. (or one fewer day off per week, to make that more pertinent)


Don't forget the Bulls.

The Lakers and the Bulls are the only two teams to have played 18 games this season. 

Meanwhile, the Clippers are the only team to have played 14 games.

If you ask me, the scheduling could have been done better. I know it's a condensed season, and I know things will even out so that the Clippers play the brunt of their games in mid-season or by season's end while teams like the Lakers and the Bulls relax, but there's no reason the Clippers should be the only team in the NBA, at this point, to only have played 14 games.

I understand it's inevitable that there will be a few teams who start off the season playing more games, but they should at least have the Clippers at 15 games with other teams in the NBA.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Hdlr said:


> Name an NBA player that's better than Kobe Bryant.
> 
> They don't have much of an offensive system. It's the same problem with the Knicks. Both of their offensive strategies are "give the ball to Kobe/Melo". You can't expect to win a ring like that.


You could make a case for LeBron, Dwight, Durant, and Rose.

Kobe has regained top five status after last year's hobbled playoff run though.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Kobe is better than everyone in the league not named Lebron James. and I'd take Kobe in big game must have situations. Lebron is just so athletic now over the course of a season the game comes easier to him. He stuffs the boxscore but mostly his activity level on both ends. 

Howard too many holes in his bag free throws lack of post moves, Durant over reliance on long jumpers I mean really long shots should have a post game, Rose would be better if he had better shot selection shoots it too poorly and should be elite defensively.


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## Headliner (Aug 11, 2011)

VanillaPrice said:


> You could make a case for LeBron, Dwight, Durant, and Rose.
> 
> Kobe has regained top five status after last year's hobbled playoff run though.





jazzy1 said:


> Kobe is better than everyone in the league not named Lebron James. and I'd take Kobe in big game must have situations. Lebron is just so athletic now over the course of a season the game comes easier to him. He stuffs the boxscore but mostly his activity level on both ends.
> 
> Howard too many holes in his bag free throws lack of post moves, Durant over reliance on long jumpers I mean really long shots should have a post game, Rose would be better if he had better shot selection shoots it too poorly and should be elite defensively.


I would agree with the post above in response to the first post with exception to the Lebron part. I would still pick Kobe over Lebron because you never know which Lebron you're going to get. The one that's scared to shoot/not involved in the game, or the Lebron that wants to win the game. Kobe is more consistent.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> You could make a case for LeBron, Dwight, Durant, and Rose.
> 
> Kobe has regained top five status after last year's hobbled playoff run though.


People need to stop switching their "top 5" every week.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I think it's too early to go chicken little. All in all with 18 games in 29 nights, new coach, along with a team full of 3-point specialists and still being last in three point shooting (still amazes me) it could be a lot worse.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Hdlr said:


> Name an NBA player that's better than Kobe Bryant.
> 
> They don't have much of an offensive system. It's the same problem with the Knicks. Both of their offensive strategies are "give the ball to Kobe/Melo". You can't expect to win a ring like that.


well no kidding but that's not Kobe's fault which you kind of made it sound like you thought it was when you stated:



> Well, that's what happens when the coach basically allows Kobe to run the offense while he does the defense. Kobe is proving that he's still the best player in the world, but it's costing his team victories.


the blame for that (mitigated by no practice and no preseason) lies squarely on the shoulders of Mike Brown, not Kobe


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> I think it's too early to go chicken little. All in all with 18 games in 29 nights, new coach, along with a team full of 3-point specialists and still being last in three point shooting (still amazes me) it could be a lot worse.


What makes you think the 3 point shooting will improve by any significant measure? Fisher is done, Goudelock is a rookie and Murphy and Kapono are too limited to play heavy minutes and make an impact. That leaves Blake.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Jamel Irief said:


> People need to stop switching their "top 5" every week.


Why? You're saying that we should be calling Dirk a top five player right now?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> What makes you think the 3 point shooting will improve by any significant measure? Fisher is done, Goudelock is a rookie and Murphy and Kapono are too limited to play heavy minutes and make an impact. That leaves Blake.


Fisher is missing open 3's. You don't get "done" shooting open shots. I bet Larry Bird still nails 60% of open 3's. MWP and Barnes are also shooting career lows. Metta needs to hit at least 30% or not shoot them altogether, ditto for Barnes, Gasol and Kobe. Rookies can make 3's, and Murphy isn't much worse than McRoberts. 



Vanilla said:


> Why? You're saying that we should be calling Dirk a top five player right now?


No, but I didn't call him one at any point last year either.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

You didn't think that Dirk was playing like a top five player last postseason?


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Fisher is missing open 3's. You don't get "done" shooting open shots. I bet Larry Bird still nails 60% of open 3's. MWP and Barnes are also shooting career lows. Metta needs to hit at least 30% or not shoot them altogether, ditto for Barnes, Gasol and Kobe. Rookies can make 3's, and Murphy isn't much worse than McRoberts.


Goudelock is a rookie meaning he won't play much, and good luck waiting on Fisher to get his stroke back when he is an old man playing a compressed schedule.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> You didn't think that Dirk was playing like a top five player last postseason?


He might of been playing like one, but Monta Ellis can score 60 points tomorrow and that means he played like a top 5 player for a night.



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Goudelock is a rookie meaning he won't play much, and good luck waiting on Fisher to get his stroke back when he is an old man playing a compressed schedule.


I never said he would, but if he doesn't it's not because he's an old man. Ray Allen is only a year younger and is shooting like 50% from 3.

What about MWP? Kobe? Barnes? Kapono? all shooting career lows (except Kobe which this is his second lowest).


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Metta needs to go back to being the bully boy inside like he was doing in the first few games (forget his trey)


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

But Dirk did it for over a month, in the playoffs. That doesn't count for anything? Monta Ellis could score 60 for a month straight and I would call him a top five player.

It's not like I cherrypicked one game.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> I never said he would, but if he doesn't it's not because he's an old man. Ray Allen is only a year younger and is shooting like 50% from 3.
> 
> What about MWP? Kobe? Barnes? Kapono? all shooting career lows (except Kobe which this is his second lowest).


Ray Allen is a better shooter regardless. Peace and Barnes aren't exactly reliable shooters and Kapono barely plays because he is so limited in other areas. 

You still haven't given a reason why they will improve enough to make a difference other than that they shot better in seasons past. Not very convincing.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Ray Allen is a better shooter regardless. Peace and Barnes aren't exactly reliable shooters and Kapono barely plays because he is so limited in other areas.
> 
> You still haven't given a reason why they will improve enough to make a difference other than that they shot better in seasons past. Not very convincing.


Well what can I tell you. If thinking they'll do better because they've played 10+ years and done better every other year isn't enough than I don't have a convincing argument. 



> But Dirk did it for over a month, in the playoffs. That doesn't count for anything? Monta Ellis could score 60 for a month straight and I would call him a top five player.
> 
> It's not like I cherrypicked one game.


He really wasn't that much better than most of the playoffs of his career. Not counting the one he lost in the first round to Golden State. His team just won so people gave him props.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

With the win tonight against the Clippers, Lakers jump back into a playoff spot (sort of).

They are now tied with two other teams for the 7th, 8th, and 9th conference spots.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Ron said:


> ...don't look now, Lakers, but 18 games in, you are out of the playoffs, and in 10th place in the conference.


Remember those back to back championships ?? We're still paying for them now. 

Just like the NFL, the pretenders will fall and we'll squeeze in at the last moment. All will be good in the world.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Well what can I tell you. If thinking they'll do better because they've played 10+ years and done better every other year isn't enough than I don't have a convincing argument.


Lakers from 3 point land in 3 games since I posted this-
vs Clippers 8/16
vs Bucks 6/19
vs Wolves- 8/19
Much improved from a team that was shooting .254 percent.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

Bump for a standings update:


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

They are playing better, but they are only two up on 7th place Denver.

Is this really a time to celebrate?

I do feel a little anger, however, at idiots like Ric Bucher who discounted the Lakers win over Miami on Sunday...for various reasons, all of which I disagree with...Bucher, you are a hack.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Who's celebrating anything? Nice to see that after all the disappointment shown by the fans at how the Lakers have played this year, we're still good enough to be sitting in 3rd place in the standings. Nobody wants to play us in the playoffs. Denver isn't catching us in the standings.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

due to some advantageous scheduling we're in a position to put the peddle to the metal over the next few weeks - Brown has settled on a decent rotation, our big 3 is locked in, the team seems to have started to grasp the offensive system and I really like the way they are using Kobe in motion and finding spots for him around the key

that said unless we make a move to shore up the gaping flesh wound that is our starting PG spot we're going nowhere - doesnt have to be a big splash - I actually want to keep our core intact and use peripheral assets like the tpe and picks to address the issue (ala Sessions) - I think right now the Lakers are trying to get Sessions for the tpe and a second and cleveland wants a first. the lakers worry that they cant keep sessions past this season as he will likely exercise his option and force them to make a hard decision so his value to them (were he to walk) is as a 30 game rental and is that worth a first? turn it around though, he's definitely not coming back to cleveland and not even starting for them so what's his real value to the cavs? 2 months service as a backup and cap space this summer? is two months service worth more than a second+cap space you'd have anyway? it all depends on what other offers the cavs may be fielding for him. my guess is that it goes down to the wire and we have to use the Mavs pick for him but if we do just give up a second that's a great move and even if we do give up a first if they can resign him this summer for a reasonable rate that's better than anything they would have gotten out of the draft


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

e-monk said:


> due to some advantageous scheduling we're in a position to put the peddle to the metal over the next few weeks - Brown has settled on a decent rotation, our big 3 is locked in, the team seems to have started to grasp the offensive system and I really like the way they are using Kobe in motion and finding spots for him around the key
> 
> that said unless we make a move to shore up the gaping flesh wound that is our starting PG spot we're going nowhere - doesnt have to be a big splash - I actually want to keep our core intact and use peripheral assets like the tpe and picks to address the issue (ala Sessions) - I think right now the Lakers are trying to get Sessions for the tpe and a second and cleveland wants a first. the lakers worry that they cant keep sessions past this season as he will likely exercise his option and force them to make a hard decision so his value to them (were he to walk) is as a 30 game rental and is that worth a first? turn it around though, he's definitely not coming back to cleveland and not even starting for them so what's his real value to the cavs? 2 months service as a backup and cap space this summer? is two months service worth more than a second+cap space you'd have anyway? it all depends on what other offers the cavs may be fielding for him. my guess is that it goes down to the wire and we have to use the Mavs pick for him but if we do just give up a second that's a great move and even if we do give up a first if they can resign him this summer for a reasonable rate that's better than anything they would have gotten out of the draft


This.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

e-monk said:


> due to some advantageous scheduling we're in a position to put the peddle to the metal over the next few weeks - Brown has settled on a decent rotation, our big 3 is locked in, the team seems to have started to grasp the offensive system and I really like the way they are using Kobe in motion and finding spots for him around the key
> 
> that said unless we make a move to shore up the gaping flesh wound that is our starting PG spot we're going nowhere - doesnt have to be a big splash - I actually want to keep our core intact and use peripheral assets like the tpe and picks to address the issue (ala Sessions) - I think right now the Lakers are trying to get Sessions for the tpe and a second and cleveland wants a first. the lakers worry that they cant keep sessions past this season as he will likely exercise his option and force them to make a hard decision so his value to them (were he to walk) is as a 30 game rental and is that worth a first? turn it around though, he's definitely not coming back to cleveland and not even starting for them so what's his real value to the cavs? 2 months service as a backup and cap space this summer? is two months service worth more than a second+cap space you'd have anyway? it all depends on what other offers the cavs may be fielding for him. my guess is that it goes down to the wire and we have to use the Mavs pick for him but if we do just give up a second that's a great move and even if we do give up a first if they can resign him this summer for a reasonable rate that's better than anything they would have gotten out of the draft


Nice post.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I actually see Memphis and Denver as threats to move up in the standings - Memphis still doesnt have Z-bo back and Denver only just started getting Gallinari and Nene back into the rotation last night


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

e-monk said:


> due to some advantageous scheduling we're in a position to put the peddle to the metal over the next few weeks - Brown has settled on a decent rotation, our big 3 is locked in, the team seems to have started to grasp the offensive system and I really like the way they are using Kobe in motion and finding spots for him around the key
> 
> that said unless we make a move to shore up the gaping flesh wound that is our starting PG spot we're going nowhere - doesnt have to be a big splash - I actually want to keep our core intact and use peripheral assets like the tpe and picks to address the issue (ala Sessions) - I think right now the Lakers are trying to get Sessions for the tpe and a second and cleveland wants a first. the lakers worry that they cant keep sessions past this season as he will likely exercise his option and force them to make a hard decision so his value to them (were he to walk) is as a 30 game rental and is that worth a first? turn it around though, he's definitely not coming back to cleveland and not even starting for them so what's his real value to the cavs? 2 months service as a backup and cap space this summer? is two months service worth more than a second+cap space you'd have anyway? it all depends on what other offers the cavs may be fielding for him. my guess is that it goes down to the wire and we have to use the Mavs pick for him but if we do just give up a second that's a great move and even if we do give up a first if they can resign him this summer for a reasonable rate that's better than anything they would have gotten out of the draft


Agreed.

There is a good chance by the end of next week the Lakers could be in 2nd place in the west. But your right, they are not going anywhere unless the can make a move for a point guard. I really hope they make the deal for Sessions, him and Blake as the point guards and Fisher's ass glued to the bench would do wonders for the team.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

e-monk said:


> due to some advantageous scheduling we're in a position to put the peddle to the metal over the next few weeks - Brown has settled on a decent rotation, our big 3 is locked in, the team seems to have started to grasp the offensive system and I really like the way they are using Kobe in motion and finding spots for him around the key
> 
> that said unless we make a move to shore up the gaping flesh wound that is our starting PG spot we're going nowhere - doesnt have to be a big splash - I actually want to keep our core intact and use peripheral assets like the tpe and picks to address the issue (ala Sessions) - I think right now the Lakers are trying to get Sessions for the tpe and a second and cleveland wants a first. the lakers worry that they cant keep sessions past this season as he will likely exercise his option and force them to make a hard decision so his value to them (were he to walk) is as a 30 game rental and is that worth a first? turn it around though, he's definitely not coming back to cleveland and not even starting for them so what's his real value to the cavs? 2 months service as a backup and cap space this summer? is two months service worth more than a second+cap space you'd have anyway? it all depends on what other offers the cavs may be fielding for him. my guess is that it goes down to the wire and we have to use the Mavs pick for him but if we do just give up a second that's a great move and even if we do give up a first if they can resign him this summer for a reasonable rate that's better than anything they would have gotten out of the draft


Not sure about any of this. Not sure what advantageous scheduling means. 

as for Sessions I saw 1st hand a week ago courtside against the Wizards Sessions do his thing and he's not gonna change the fortunes of this team at all. 

He is better than Blake is. But he's just a guy. He couldn't guard John Wall and wasn't making many plays for anyone else at all.

Put him on the Lakers who have 3 scoring option with Kobe who demands the ball quite alot how does he upgrade us really. Can he play off of the Big 3.

Calderon I can see he's a good passer and a good shooter we could possibly hide his dreadful defense but his ability to pass it to guys in their sweet spots would make our offense that much more efficient. 

If we get to 2nd in the West I dispute this idea we are going nowhere then. thats almost ridiculous to say you're the 2nd best team in the West yet you're headed nowhere. Really. 

we need another guy a pg but I'm not sold on who that guy should be.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

jazzy1 said:


> Not sure about any of this. Not sure what advantageous scheduling means.


it means soft opponents and lots of days off in between as opposed to what the team faced the first month and a half of the season



> as for Sessions I saw 1st hand a week ago courtside against the Wizards Sessions do his thing and he's not gonna change the fortunes of this team at all.
> 
> He is better than Blake is. But he's just a guy. He couldn't guard John Wall and wasn't making many plays for anyone else at all.


a) he's an upgrade b) how many people can guard John Wall? can he do a better job at guarding John Wall than _erek Fissure? c) he's surrounded by a crap-fest who is he going to make plays for Omar Caspi? he is more than capable of being a distributor and has done so in the past - even now in a secondary position he's averaging 36% of his team's assists when he's on the floor

and btw against Washington he played 18 minutes off the bench and scored 11 points shooting 62% from the floor so apparently Wall (who shot 47% from the floor and as a starter was mostly matched up against Irving anyway) wasnt doing too good a job of covering him either



> Put him on the Lakers who have 3 scoring option with Kobe who demands the ball quite alot how does he upgrade us really.


holy shit really? two words: _erek Fissure




> Can he play off of the Big 3.


probably, the one hole in his game in that regard has been 3pt shooting but this season he's taken more attempts than he has in the past 3 seasons combined and he's hitting 43% of them so it looks like he may have done some work on that front - I actually think he'd thrive in a situation where he's playing off guys who take up the opponent's attention and we desparately need a PG who can run the p&r and he can do that a hell of a lot better than Fissure



> Calderon I can see he's a good passer and a good shooter we could possibly hide his dreadful defense but his ability to pass it to guys in their sweet spots would make our offense that much more efficient.


question: is Calderon a better offensive option than Sessions? answer: probably
question: is Calderon making twice as much as Sessions and are you going to have to give up a hell of lot more value in trade? indubitably so
question: is Calderon 30 and Sessions 25?



> If we get to 2nd in the West I dispute this idea we are going nowhere then. thats almost ridiculous to say you're the 2nd best team in the West yet you're headed nowhere. Really.


there are 3 teams that we dont have a decent shot of beating - one of them resides in the west - doesnt matter if we're in the 2 spot or 3 spot or the 4 spot - doesnt matter at all - at some point we have to face the thunder and the reality is that we do not match up well with them and they'd be heavily favored to beat us - a miracle could happen I suppose. Magic and a bunch of savvy vets figured out a way to get past a much better Blazers team, something like that could happen - of course they then got their asses kicked by the bulls in the next series, something like that could happen again too

bottom line is that if you're talking about the Lakers anything short of a title is in fact 'nowhere' - and this team as constituted is not in the same tier as the Heat, Bulls and Thunder. Just not, not facing any of those squads at full strength over a seven game series



> we need another guy a pg but I'm not sold on who that guy should be.


fair enough


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Sessions is the guy.

But I hate the idea of dealing with that ****ing Gilbert. No way does that asshole get a 1st from us.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

Aslong as the Lakers finish ahead of the Clippers during the season and in the playoffs I don't care. **** the Clippers!


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