# Offseason Starts TODAY: Your plans/comments to improve team



## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

*Re: The Nuggets are going to smoke the Clippers*

let me outline the problem ive basically said existed since 2004.

AJ, Allen Ray might be 6'2. He and guys like Jason Terry arent going to be ideal for this team because in order to be contenders we need a guy that can drain threes (be a secondary scorer) and be the number one defensive stopper. Can Allen Ray do that?

Why do you ask. Well Andre Miller is your point guard. Are you going to put him on Kobe, or Ray Allen? Maybe have him guard Paul Pierce? No, you arent.

What about Carmelo. He's your bread and butter. You cant have that guy getting into foul trouble trying to guard those type of players.

Now Gilbert Arenas wanted to play for this team when he was a free agent. Kiki never even met with him. If we had Gilbert, a defensive stopper guy alone would probably work out much better on this team. However, Kiki went with Andre Miller. Now I recognize that he is a good player, and does a lot of things right. But a complete backcourt change may be in order to take denver to the next level.

The problem is we cant find that perfect shooting guard out there. The guys available like JR Smith and Jamal Crawford, arent the perfect SG, however JR sure has potiental.

The three major players Id put on the block this summer are Kenyon Martin, obviously Nene, Andre Miller. And you can only trade Earl Boykins, if you can find another big time scorer to come off the bench. I recognize that people dont necessarily like the poisionous frog, but you cant take him off the roster without replacing him with somebody.

And for all of you that think Dermarr Johnson is the scoring answer off the bench. No, get over it, his career as a decent player basically ended when he fell asleep behind the wheel of a car.

For those of you who want to know how to replace Andre Miller. I would eventually look to the draft if you want to replace him. Let me first outline a couple prospects that are going to be drafted outside the lottery, but could fit in with this team.

First is temple guard Mardy Collins. You are going to get a lot of the same things out of Mardy that youre getting out of Andre. Mardy is a good passer. Played 40 minutes a game for temple. Very durable. Very undercontrol, no show in his game. Improved 3 point shooting, will be better than Andre Miller from outside probably, but he's going to have to improve it to hit it consistently from NBA range.

At 6'6 this guy can play defense. Unlike Andre Miller, ideally with Collins you could put him on the other team's best wing.

Kyle Lowry from Villanova is another young player I like, but he isnt ready let. With Kyle you will need a larger two guard to play along side him. This guy could be a great run and gun passing PG in the league in a few years, and will be a good on the ball defender and get you a lot of steals. But this guy cant shoot a lick. Dont expect this guy to be nailing jumpers, without improvement in that area. This guy is much faster than Andre Miller, but he wont be your secondary scorer. Late first round pick

Darius Washington from Memphis also declared for the nba draft. I have to admit, he isnt ready, but this guy is going to be great in the nba. if he stays in it will be because he got a first round commitment. He is worth a first round commitment, but he probably should stay in another year. Darius is just talented. He can score, he can pass, he can play defense. Kind of the whole package type player, Will guard PGs, but you dont want him on a larger wing.

I know everyone is thinking if we get first round picks draft a SG, but there are going to be some talented PGs available in the late first round, and if you trade Andre Miller this summer, one of these guys would be an ideal replacement.

But of course I realize these young guys are rookies, so youd have to bring in a PG to mentor them ideally, Speedy Claxton, Sam Cassell, or Anthony Johnson (l like this guy)

There is one SG that I believe would meet our needs and is nba ready from the draft. Thats Rodney Carney, you could basically plug him in the two slot for next year.

As for other draft prospects if Leon Powe is in the 2nd round, we need to nab him. Dee Brown also could be available in the 2nd round. Taj Gray will be available And of course my favs Justin Williams and James White.

Getting picks in this draft is important IMO.

But with guys like Andre Miller, Kenyon Martin, and Nene on the block, your going to get good players in return. Keep in mind Melo wants to keep Nene. So that basically means to improve this team you may really need to shop Martin and Miller.

Well ill toss out a senerio, i doubt people will like it, but ill do it anyways. You could send KMart to Houston for Stromile Swift (who played so bad because he doesnt fit the Houston system, he fits better with denver) and two retiring players, and a first round pick.

<!--StartFragment -->

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Houston Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Stromile Swift

6-9 PF from Louisiana State
8.9 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.4 apg in 20.4 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Bob Sura

6-5 from Florida State
No games yet played in 2005/06
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Dikembe Mutombo

7-2 C from Georgetown
2.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.1 apg in 14.9 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kenyon Martin

6-9 PF from Cincinnati
12.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.6 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +1.4 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and +0.9 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Denver Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kenyon Martin

6-9 PF from Cincinnati
12.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.6 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Stromile Swift

6-9 PF from Louisiana State
8.9 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.4 apg in 20.4 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Bob Sura

6-5 from Florida State
No games yet played in 2005/06
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Dikembe Mutombo

7-2 C from Georgetown
2.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.1 apg in 14.9 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -1.4 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and -0.9 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>We could send Andre north of the border, because Toronto will need to replace Mike James. We could send Miller to the Raps for an expiring deal, morris peterson, and a first round pick</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!--StartFragment --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Denver Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andre Miller

6-2 PG from Utah
13.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 8.2 apg in 35.9 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Morris Peterson

6-7 SG from Michigan State
16.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.3 apg in 38.3 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Eric Williams

6-8 SF from Providence
3.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 12.7 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +6.4 ppg, +2.2 rpg, and -5.4 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Toronto Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Morris Peterson

6-7 SG from Michigan State
16.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.3 apg in 38.3 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Eric Williams

6-8 SF from Providence
3.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 12.7 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andre Miller

6-2 PG from Utah
13.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 8.2 apg in 35.9 minutes
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -6.4 ppg, -2.2 rpg, and +5.4 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_s>Successful Scenario , Williams has an expiring deal, and Toronto includes 1st rounder</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_s>Due to Denver and Toronto being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Denver and Toronto had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


Then you can make Melo happy and resign both Nene and Reggie "Ball grabber" Evans

Camby 
Nene
Anthony
Morris Peterson
Cassell, Speedy Claxton, Anthony Johnson (one of those three with your mle) plus you can draft a PG listed above with one of the picks you trade for.

Much improved bench
Swift, Reggie Evans, Najera, Patterson, Buckner, Boykins, Williams, 2nd yr guys, rookies

I see that roster playing together much better. You get Kenyon out of the picture. The Andre trade cant come back to bit you when you send him to canada. Plus I like Peterson, he can strech the defense around Anthony, and defend PP, Kobe, Allen etc.

Plus, if you fire Kiki, and draft well, you could snag a guy like Mardy Collins, who could come in and start at PG right away. if he did, youd have a tall team starting
6'11. 6'11, 6'8, 6'7, 6'6

Carney happens to be 6'7 too. He'd be a nice tall two guard.

Just something to think about.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

*Re: The Nuggets are going to smoke the Clippers*



> *nbanoitall*





> Now Gilbert Arenas wanted to play for this team when he was a free agent. Kiki never even met with him.


Actually Kiki wanted to sign Arenas, but Kroneke would not sign off on the deal. He has final approval on contracts and did not trust Arenas enough to pay him the few million more than Andre is making. This was a CRAPPY move by our owner. But Kiki should have talked him into it!





> And for all of you that think Dermarr Johnson is the scoring answer off the bench. No, get over it, his career as a decent player basically ended when he fell asleep behind the wheel of a car.


I couldn't agree more. I was a DJ fan, but he's done! Let him walk with KMart this offseason.



> For those of you who want to know how to replace Andre Miller. *I would eventually look to the draft if you want to replace him.* Let me first outline a couple prospects that are going to be drafted outside the lottery, but could fit in with this team.


Denver's first round pick is gone. Toronto had it, I think NY has it now...

The Second Round pick belongs to the Dallas Mavericks so Denver has NO PICKS THIS OFFSEASON W/O A TRADE!




I really liked the TRADE scenario to get Morris Peterson. Toronto has Mike James as a Free Agent (who Denver could ink to replace Boykins scoring off the bench!!!) And Toronto has Jose Calderon as their backup soon to maybe be starter. He's either a rookie or a 2nd year guy. 

But with Toronto actually making great strides last season before the Bosh injury there is NO WAY the Raptors part with Morris Peterson! He's too valuable to their team!

Did anyone hear Marlowe on Altitude last night saying the Clippers believe that Corey Maggettee is a selfish player and they will look to trade him this offseason? Any truth there? Is he too valuable to L.A. THey do have to resign Radman, Cassell, then Kaman next year and Corey may be an odd man out along w/ Cassell...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

*Re: The Nuggets are going to smoke the Clippers*



> *Timmons* Actually Kiki wanted to sign Arenas, but Kroneke would not sign off on the deal. He has final approval on contracts and did not trust Arenas enough to pay him the few million more than Andre is making. This was a CRAPPY move by our owner. But Kiki should have talked him into it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember reading that Kiki never even met with Arenas or talked to his agent. So how on earth could he even know what Arenas's agent would take. I dont remember reading anywhere that Kiki would have signed him if Stan would have paid him. I do remember reading that Kiki said that they just weren't able to meet or get in touch, and he's glad to have Andre Miller.

Its been awhile, but thats my memory. As for MoPete, you know we are talking Andre Miller here, theyd take the deal in a second. Saves them from pouring huge money into old man james, and they likely will be drafting a wing, like Rudy Gay or Rodney Carney, anyways. Plus they have Graham who could move into the starter role too.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

*Re: The Nuggets are going to smoke the Clippers*



> *nbanoitall:* I remember reading that Kiki never even met with Arenas or talked to his agent. So how on earth could he even know what Arenas's agent would take. I dont remember reading anywhere that Kiki would have signed him if Stan would have paid him. I do remember reading that Kiki said that they just weren't able to meet or get in touch, and he's glad to have Andre Miller.


Recently here in Colorado they've been talking on Sports Talk radio on both 950 the Fan and 560 ESPN radio that Stan K. would not sign off on Paying Arenas so Kiki had to move on. 
I'm not sure what that means, maybe they never talked but Kroenke is getting the blame on the airwaves. 

Plus why would Kiki blame Stan in public? He'd of gotten his walking papers sooner. I'm not sure what happened, but reports have been that Kroenke would not sign off on big money for Arenas, but he loves KMart and was willing to ink him to the Max Deal.

But yeah, I also remember reading that Arenas would not play Shooting Guard and he was never officially offered a deal or even in negociations. Maybe Kiki gave a ball park number to Stan and Stan nixed it...before ever talking to Arenas' agent...



> As for MoPete, you know we are talking Andre Miller here, theyd take the deal in a second. Saves them from pouring huge money into old man james, and they likely will be drafting a wing, like Rudy Gay or Rodney Carney, anyways. Plus they have Graham who could move into the starter role too.


That would be great if the Nuggets could pull that deal off. I really like Mo Pete. He's realatively young and a rising star in my opinion. He'd take a lot of heat off Melo.

Old Man James would be a nice fit here as a backup for the right price.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

Anybody think Denver could pull off a deal for Rashard Lewis?

Seattle probably has him nowhere near the block...And he's a true small forward...(same as Melo)


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

I can only think in the AI trade that almost happen this past trade deadline


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

I'd go for the Houston trade in a heartbeat. It's a great, creative idea. Probably a wash for the Rockets, assuming that Martin stays gimpy. But a healthy and motivated Martin could be a great fit playing with Yao. 

I'll pass on the Toronto trade. I don't understand why some of you guys are in such a hurry to unload Miller. I'm aware of his flaws, but he's still an above-average point guard in this league, and I would hate to see the Nugs go into next year with a downgrade at that very important position. Boykins doesn't work as a starter in my book, and while Mike James put up impressive numbers this year, I would give him about 10 games leading the Nuggets before people on this board were scorching him for being a ball hog and not playing to Carmelo's strengths. We've gotta do better than either of those scenarios in any off-season that involves Miller leaving town.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

http://www1.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=3069195 

*Denver Trade Breakdown * 
*Outgoing * 








Julius Hodge
6-7 SG from North Carolina State
0.9 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 0.4 apg in 2.5 minutes 








Kenyon Martin
6-9 PF from Cincinnati
12.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.6 minutes 








Earl Boykins
5-5 PG from Eastern Michigan
12.6 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 3.8 apg in 25.8 minutes 

*Incoming * 








Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
14.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.8 apg in 32.3 minutes 








Maurice Taylor
6-9 PF from Michigan
6.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 18.0 minutes 
Change in team outlook: -5.8 ppg, -1.7 rpg, and -1.0 apg. 





Successful Scenario 
Due to Denver and New York being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Denver and New York had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. 


This trade would make me very happy.

Mo Taylor is not very ideal, but he can shoot the jumper a little and he's a FA next season...


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

> ESPN - Marc Stein of ESPN is reporting that sources have informed him the Clippers are likely to seek a trade involving Corey Maggette for the best draft selection they can acquire in return, most likely from a team such as Chicago or Atlanta, who will have a lottery pick, as well as salary cap space.
> 
> The thinking behind dealing Maggette is that Donald Sterling will be more willing to spend the money to re-sign Sam Cassell and Vladimir Radmanovic if Maggette's salary is shed.


If Denver could jump in and get Corey that'd help a ton! Anybody smell 3-way deal w/ Chicago involving KMart? Hopefully Al Harrington will resign with Atlanta or Chicago and let the other team vie for KMart and not Nene!


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

just a few points,

Maggette is a very mediocre 3 point shooter at best. Likely, the Clips will trade him to the eastern conference.

Denver can get al harrington, but it wont be for Kmart.

jericho, everyone who has been in the nuggets forum for a few years know id like to land stromile swift. swift is a mobile big, that would fit in well with our scheme. Swift has not been successful with JVG and his half court team. If your going to move Kmart, is going to be for an under performer like swift. in denver i believe swift can find his niche.

As for trading Andre Miller. Thinking like the Raptors new gm, id be looking for a very good PG that can run a team. (he did bring in steve nash), so ideally a miller for MoPete trade makes sense. I believe the raptors would do it. There are a lot of miller fans that would be pissed, but it would be a step forward. We could use peterson to guard the talented wings, and as a shooter. He has a nice three point stroke. 6'7 2 guard that will defend and shoot threes. hmmm, ill take that

I do acknowledge when you make a move like that, you gotta replace Miller. Ok, i said throw the whole MLE at Raja Bell last summer, and I was right, so now Im going to say, if you trade Miller, throw the whole damn MLE at Anthony Johnson. Give him a 3 year deal at the MLE. I think his performance tonight speaks for itself.

Then you could draft a guy like Mardy Collins. Id say doing things like that would be a step in the right direction. Plus youd have another first rounder from the trades to use as well


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Can i have a list of FA's in the offseason please?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

yes you can.

http://www.nationwide.net/~patricia/contracts


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> yes you can.
> 
> http://www.nationwide.net/~patricia/contracts


thank you. Ill try to use the list to figure out ways to improve the nuggets via free agency!


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> jericho, everyone who has been in the nuggets forum for a few years know id like to land stromile swift. swift is a mobile big, that would fit in well with our scheme. Swift has not been successful with JVG and his half court team. If your going to move Kmart, is going to be for an under performer like swift. in denver i believe swift can find his niche.


Swift is garbage. To say he wasn't successful in Houston is telling only 1/6th of the stroy. Swift wasn't successful in Memphis under multiple coaches and is close to brain dead in terms of BBall IQ. This is the type of player Karl would absolutely hate.

Swift isn't an underperformer. He is what he is, an athlete that happens to make money playing basketball.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> Swift is garbage. To say he wasn't successful in Houston is telling only 1/6th of the stroy. Swift wasn't successful in Memphis under multiple coaches and is close to brain dead in terms of BBall IQ. This is the type of player Karl would absolutely hate.
> 
> Swift isn't an underperformer. He is what he is, an athlete that happens to make money playing basketball.


overall i disagree, your right swift isnt a bball player with a high IQ. If there was a better trade out there Id be all for it. All I have heard was a deal with new york for bulk shooter crawford. we already have bulk shooters. we need high percentage shooters. 

swift is going to be at his best when he can use his athleticism to run and gun. I believe denver is the best place for him because we play to his strengths. expiring, deal, swift and a first round pick sounds better than Mo and Crawford to me. Moblie size and shot blocking off the bench works. Im sorry Kenyon just isnt worth ****.


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

How bout Kareem Rush, he could be a solid Backup SG since the Bobcats waived him. You can get him for probably 4 million with the MLE. Trade Patterson, Boykins, Future 1st rounder, Filler for S&T Harrington, filler. Slide Melo to the 2 spot, Trade Nene for Claxton. use the Left over MLE to sign a big and use the Vet Min if possible


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

starting melo at two is not the answer, especially if you keep Andre Miller, and throw Al Harrington in the lineup. Watching the playoffs sound obviously end the move melo to two talk.


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

it's an iffy move but if he does stay at the 3 spot then harrington will probably not come since there is enough PF's


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> overall i disagree, your right swift isnt a bball player with a high IQ. If there was a better trade out there Id be all for it. All I have heard was a deal with new york for bulk shooter crawford. we already have bulk shooters. we need high percentage shooters.
> 
> swift is going to be at his best when he can use his athleticism to run and gun. I believe denver is the best place for him because we play to his strengths. expiring, deal, swift and a first round pick sounds better than Mo and Crawford to me. Moblie size and shot blocking off the bench works. Im sorry Kenyon just isnt worth ****.


Comparing Swift to Kenyon is a joke. Swift at his best isn't better than the injured Kenyon the Nuggets had this season. I realize you've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years pimping Swift for the Nuggets, but it is time for you to give up and recognize how bad Swift is.


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

-Why couldn't JJ Redick just be 2 or 3 inches taller? :curse: He's not much of a defender, but he's improved every year, which is a good sign. He's got the conditioning to play an open court game (37 minutes a night, and you know he still had his legs at the end of games). He's disciplined, he's basketball smart, he's quicker than he gets credit for, and, assuming you have a television, you know how great of a shooter he is. But 6'4 in the NBA means you're either a freak 2 guard (think D-Wade: great hops with a 6'10 wingspan), or you're a big point guard. JJ's no physical specimen, and he sure as *hell* isn't the point guard we (or anyone else, for that matter) need. So that eliminates him as a possibility.

-I do like the Anthony Johnson idea.

-I'm a big Deron Williams fan. He's a pass-first point guard, he shot 41% from 3 this season, and he's 21 years old right now. He's actually got better size than Dre. He averaged 13.8 points, 6.6 assists, and less than 1.5 TO's in 35+ minutes a night in April for Utah. I know Utah has no interest in trading him, but I really wish we could lure him out of there. I can't think of any specific trade ideas, but Dre did play his college ball in Utah. He's making over twice as much as Deron, but maybe the salary issues could be worked out with a guy like Giricek.

-How's Mo Pete's defense?

-Changes are definitely on the way. Marcus sounds like he's gonna finish out his career in Denver. Melo's going nowhere. And possibly the most frequently dangled trade bait in the league over the last year or 2, Nene, sounds like he wants like hell to stay.

"I'm so mad," Nene said about missing the playoffs. "It's so upsetting. The team needs my game, my defense....I see a lot of things I don't like, but I can't do nothing."

On returning to Denver, Nene said: "I want to do like (Karl) Malone. He stayed for a long time on (the same) team. I don't like different teams. I need to be stable."

from the same article:

"It was obvious guys didn't want to be here," Camby said. "Guys are pouting and frustrated with one another. Arguing with Coach. And all that stuff is not necessary. We need to bring guys in that want to be committed to winning and playing and doing things the right way.

"Guys got to hold themselves accountable. Management is going to have to do something this summer to bring in the right guys who want to do things the right way." 

Said Anthony: "We got to go sit down. If me and Marcus have to sit down, we'll sit down with (coach) George (Karl) or (general manager) Kiki (Vandeweghe) or whoever it may be. We got to figure something out because we are going to be here. We want people that want to play. I'm more mad that we lost than anything right now. ...

"I saw that before the game guys who didn't want to be here. Guys that said they wanted to be here but didn't really want to play this game." 
(link)

If that article is any indicator, then the front line looks set for the next couple years. The questions now remain with the bench and the backcourt.

-If the new GM can get anything at all for Kenyon, he'll turn into Kiki #2. Hell of a move, followed by big expectations and probably not results to suit.

-Here's a list of guys that I like, but who ultimately don't have much of a chance of ending up here: Larry Hughes, Joe Johnson, Leandro Barbosa, Kevin Martin, Jason Richardson, Paul Pierce, Jason Terry, Rodney Carney, Ben Gordon. And yes, I know there are reasons why they probably (or definitely) won't end up here.

-I don't watch a ton of college ball outside of the Big East, so I can't say I know much about guys like Mardy Collins, whom you obviously think is part of the answer, noitall. And does anyone know anything about Kenyon's half brother, Roby? What kind of fit would Brandon Roy be?


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

cpawfan said:


> Comparing Swift to Kenyon is a joke. Swift at his best isn't better than the injured Kenyon the Nuggets had this season. I realize you've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years pimping Swift for the Nuggets, but it is time for you to give up and recognize how bad Swift is.


Swift is awful, theres probably a better chance of getting someone in the draft better than him. Also who are the players that don't want to be in Denver?


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

I've been looking around, and I dont' see anywhere that actually names names. You gotta figure Kenyon's one of them though. Pretty sure Buck said he was planning on opting out when his contract's up this year. That leaves guys like Earl, Reggie, DJ, Dre, Ruben, and Najera as possibilities. Who wants out right now, is pretty much anybody's guess.


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## scooter (Oct 22, 2003)

For what its worth, here's a trade idea I came up with to help solve what Karl recently said was the need for about "four shooters." 

Nuggets trade:
Nene (S&T)
Miller
Najera 

Raptors trade:
James (S&T)
Villanueva
Williams
Peterson

Should work under the cap.

Why the Raptors do it -- they get a talented young bruising center in Nene to play alongside Bosh. This is a desperate need, its tough to fill, and there doesn't appear to be anyone in this year's draft to fit that bill. Bosh is a finesse PF who needs a bruiser to play with. In Miller they get a very experienced, very professional PG with excellent ballhandling and passing skills which is very useful on a young team. They will have a hole at SG/SF which they can fill with their lottery pick in the draft with Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay or JJ Redick. James is almost 31 and may not be the best fit for a rebuilding team like the Raptors. Villanueva basically plays the same position as Bosh. Peterson can be replaced by a younger player and Williams is a waste of money. Overall it makes the Raptors younger and just as talented and saves them money. Good for a rebuilding team.

Why the Nuggets do it -- they add 3 outside shooters to spread the floor and get defenses off Anthony's back. James, Villanuueva and Peterson combined for 426 threes last season. James isn't the pure PG Miller is but Anthony is a guy who can have the ball quite a bit so you don't need a point guard to dominate the ball. James hit 44% on threes this past season and that will more than make up for his limitations and big mouth. Give him the money he wants. Peterson is not flashy but is fundamentally sound and hit 40% on threes. I see Villanueva as a Robert Horry type of finesse PF who also can spread the floor and hit from the outside. The Nuggets will help the Raptors financially by taking Alvin Williams' contract.

Then the Nuggets can trade Ruben Patterson's expiring contract to Indy for S. Jackson or a S&T for Fred Jones. Try to patch things up with KMart, who's defense will be more needed on this more finesse oriented team. If you can't, trade him for Zach Randolph (I'd rather have Boozer but I seriously doubt Jerry Sloan would take KMart). Then re-sign Francisco Elson to back Camby up again. Sign a big guy scrub for muscle and depth. New lineup:

James/Boykins/Hodge 
Jones or Jackson/Peterson
Anthony/Peterson/Kleiza
KMart (or Randolph)/Villanueva/Kleiza
Camby/Elson

We've added 4 guys who can hit shots (James, Jones or Jackson, Peterson, Villanueva) while subtracting some of our logjam of hustle players and guys who can only score in the paint. This is a much more versatile offensive team with lots of shooters to keep triple teams off of Melo. What do you think?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> Comparing Swift to Kenyon is a joke. Swift at his best isn't better than the injured Kenyon the Nuggets had this season. I realize you've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years pimping Swift for the Nuggets, but it is time for you to give up and recognize how bad Swift is.


i think before his year in houston you would have told me he would be a decent backup that can come in off the bench. Swift looked horrible last year and im completely aware of it. I think swift could be a role player on a run and gun team. Ive always felt that way. His value has tanked just like Kmart.

Now seed mentioned that you could probably draft someobody better than swift. well in the trade proposal i suggested, you get both a first round draft pick, and a retiring player that comes off the books so you can sign anthony, and resign nene if you wanted.

business wise it makes sense, you can dump kmart, get a pick, and save $$. that makes more sense to me than giving martin away for crawford, we might as well just resign buckner and give him the green light to chuck, than trade for crawford


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> i think before his year in houston you would have told me he would be a decent backup that can come in off the bench. Swift looked horrible last year and im completely aware of it. I think swift could be a role player on a run and gun team. Ive always felt that way. His value has tanked just like Kmart.


:laugh:

If the search function worked, I'd show you the plethora of posts I have made explaining what garbage Swift is since long before he signed with the Rockets. In order to be a good role player, a player needs to be consistent with at least some part of his game. Swift is only consistent in his inconsistency.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

everyone but melo for garnett and pierce...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> :laugh:
> 
> If the search function worked, I'd show you the plethora of posts I have made explaining what garbage Swift is since long before he signed with the Rockets. In order to be a good role player, a player needs to be consistent with at least some part of his game. Swift is only consistent in his inconsistency.


swift can consistantly provide one dunk a game for espn. at least when he could get in the game this year, before in memphis it was less of a challenge. im trying to be nice here about kmart, but RealGM and the Denver post is reporting the nuggets are planning to swap kmart for you know who on the blazers. That fat lazy me first player is going to be a bigger problem than kenyon. so far, ive heard the blazer deal, the knick deal, and i gotta admit i havent heard one better than mine. regardless of your opinion of swift, the 1st rounder and cap space alone sound better. Zach Randolph would do better as an olympic sprinter than a pf on the nuggets. and crawford and mo can stay in new york. Id prefer a shooter than can put the ball in the hoop.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

id still love frye too


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## SuperMascotRocky (Dec 1, 2004)

No Cassell or i quit
Resign Nene and trade K-Mart Andre and Earl for good player that win
then i think we will be good


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

SuperMascotRocky said:


> No Cassell or i quit
> Resign Nene and trade K-Mart Andre and Earl for good player that win
> then i think we will be good


cassell would be a GREAT fit!

this team has:
-NO leader
-NO shooting
-NO natural PG
-NO proven playoff "winners"
-NO 2nd player to get hot

cassell takes care of ALL that!

if the nuggets some how could get cassell, jr smith, and maybe a young back-up PG in the draft and a shooter off the bench...we'd be WAAAY better than we are now


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

Sam's only got maybe 2 good years left in him, he's getting old (gotta be around 35 by now). I don't think we're that close to winning a championship, so I'd look more for a younger guy, probably in the draft. It sounds like he's gonna wanna stay with the Clips, but if he does decide to walk, I'd value him as a leader/mentor more so than as a player. Great shooter, great scorer, sneaky as hell, extremely competitive, knows the game inside and out. This is exactly who I'd want helping my younger guys learn the game. I say he'll be on someone's staff quickly after he retires (or at least be offered a spot), and stays active as an assitant coach or maybe even eventually a head coach for years to come.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

Yeah boys trade for RUBEN PATTERSON AND...AND ZACH RANDOLPH! 

I think that combo worked out well in Portland right? Didn't they win a bunch of rings? 

Like its been said a ton...Players don't become available unless there is a problem with them. Damaged goods so to speak. Denver is not going to get a quality team guy for Kenyon. The best they can hope for is a decent shooter and CAP SPACE to start over.

That's why I like the Mo Taylor and Jamal Crawford deal. Craw isn't a huge chucker I don't think. Plus he would have the green light whenever Melo dishes it out to him to bury 3s! Kinda like Raja Bell did for the Suns...or should we call him a 'chucker' too?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Crawford: Career FG percentage 401%
Lowest year rookie season at 35% FG
Last year with the knicks he shot less than 40 percent from the field.
This year he barely broke .400
made 101 3 pointers to shoot 34%

Morris Peterson ranks 9th in the nba in three point makes
shot 38% from downtown his rookie year, and this year .05 percent away from being a 40% shooter. Many years thats actually better than Crawfords overall percentage from the field.
.436 overall FG 

Jamal Crawford is a chucker. This is why my trade for swift, a retiring player, and a first round pick makes more sense. Morris Peterson would help this team, Crawford would not. Morriss Peterson is a better defender and shooter. Crawford and Taylor should be dumped in a bio hazard receptacle. 

Id much rather have say Rodney Carney or Roy, over Crawford.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

the draft in my eyes becomes more of a positive now that kiki is gone. worst drafting gm in history...

craw isnt any more of a chucker than earl or andre. better size, great handles, and decent 3point % for k-mart!!!!!!!!!?????? crap! id give him away for a 99cent double cheeseburger at mcdonalds! would frye have a ny chance to be part of a deal? maybe throw NY Nene? maybe another PG? 

id still rather get smith from NO, even though his attitude doesnt look so great...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> the draft in my eyes becomes more of a positive now that kiki is gone. worst drafting gm in history...
> 
> craw isnt any more of a chucker than earl or andre.QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## SuperMascotRocky (Dec 1, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> cassell would be a GREAT fit!
> 
> this team has:
> -NO leader
> ...



Ya sure but i hate him 
i may be racist but i hate aliens


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

SuperMascotRocky said:


> Ya sure but i hate him
> i may be racist but i hate aliens


so do i. hate him with a passion...but i wouldnt mind him on my team


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

*MY DREAM OFFSEASON*
VERY POSSIBLE!!! (sort of)

-trade george karl, andre miller, and a #2 pick for geoff peotrie and mike bibby

-trade camby and bibby for garnett

-trade k-mart for crawford and some junk

-hire elston turner as head coach

-sign sam cassell

starting line-up:
C- Nene
PF- Garnett
SF- Melo
SG- Crawford
PG- Cassell

peotrie (the best gm in the NBA by far) and elston turner as head coach...or PJ if turner is gone...


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

I agree this team could be made or broken with the draft, but the problem is that we're sort of short in that area right now. Our only pick this year as of right now is gonna be a mid to late second rounder. I wouldn't mind unloading a few guys for picks.

P.S. - Anyone know anything about Rick Adelman? The only thing I can ever find on him are the words "players coach," and I can't say I know much about his coaching style, demeanor, or much else. What do you guys think about him?


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

Kuskid said:


> I agree this team could be made or broken with the draft, but the problem is that we're sort of short in that area right now. Our only pick this year as of right now is gonna be a mid to late second rounder. I wouldn't mind unloading a few guys for picks.
> 
> P.S. - Anyone know anything about Rick Adelman? The only thing I can ever find on him are the words "players coach," and I can't say I know much about his coaching style, demeanor, or much else. What do you guys think about him?


adelman is a GREAT coach! top 5 IMO!

runs a great offense. can coach ANY player and make them better. only negative from some people is lack of defense, but you can only play with what you have and after getting artest, they WERE a very good defensive team, so i dont buy all that crap. hes a winner but hes never won the big one because he ran into 3ball MJ and referees and missed ft's. could easily have had 2-3 rings if it werent for a little bad luck...

but hes not going anywhere . hes a west coast guy and will probably take the year off or retire...

i LOVE his assistant elston turner! GREAT coach!!! same philosophies as adelman but stresses defense a bit more. all the players would take a bullet for him IMO. he IS available


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> Crawford: Career FG percentage 401%
> Lowest year rookie season at 35% FG
> Last year with the knicks he shot less than 40 percent from the field.
> This year he barely broke .400
> ...


Dude, If the choice is between Jamal Crawford and Morris Peterson there is no choice. I like Mo Pete, but I don't think the Nuggets will pursue that avenue.

Larry Bird is upset with Steven Jackson and he's on the block...

And I really took a liking to Brandon Roy during the tournament. If Denver could steal him at #49 (which I thought Denver owed to Dallas this season) that'd be great, but he's a definite 1st Round guy right? 

So if Denver swings a trade for a top pick they should use it on Roy for sure.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

NUGGETS WORKED OUT 4 PLAYERS TODAY AT PEPSI CENTER...

NOTABLES INCLUDED:

Iowa St.'s Curtis Stinson (sp?)

and 

Illinois Dee Brown

Players worked out that may be around at #49...


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

i wouldnt mind seeing dee brown try it out here. smart, decent player...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Timmons said:


> NUGGETS WORKED OUT 4 PLAYERS TODAY AT PEPSI CENTER...
> 
> NOTABLES INCLUDED:
> 
> ...


you know i was the one that brought up the stephen jackson trade rumors. i still fully support it.

Also FYI, not surprised Stinson gets a look by the nuggets. He signed an agent. He is out. I fully support drafting him in the second round. This guy is a pro talent, and tough as nails. Stinson stock has been hurt by two things. One, ill bet he lead the team in rebounds and he is 6'3. He had no big men on his team worth a ****. And two, he's a natural PG forced to play off the ball because of Will Blalock. Blalock is considered a higher pick by a lot of scouts, but Will wont make it in the nba. Stinson was the sole focus of every team that played him. Stinson would be an easy lotto pick if he was allowed to play his natural position in college. Stinson is a team guy that wants to get others involved, however he just hasnt had the talent around him to do that. No Jake Sullivan, no Jackson Vroman, nobody to get involved. However, if you watch that team, they do have one guy left on their roster that would make a great nugget in 07


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

pac4eva5 said:


> *MY DREAM OFFSEASON*
> VERY POSSIBLE!!! (sort of)
> 
> -trade george karl, andre miller, and a #2 pick for geoff peotrie and mike bibby
> ...


i still like this


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

I could care less who we bring in. This team has too many internal problems to be worried about personell. 

Are we a running team or not? If we are, tell Andre and the rest of the team to push the tempo or start exploring trade options with their agents. 

Is Kenyon going to be healthy or not and does he want to be part of the team? If he's on board and can get healthy, let's move forward and push the tempo. If not, ship him off and cut our losses. 

What is the focus of the offense in the halfcourt? If we're working through Carmelo in the post, people need to stop standing around when he has the ball. How bout some motion and cutters? Otherwise, we need to implement a motion offense, because we don't have enough shooters to make it off isolation, screens, and picks. 

Are we interested in perimeter defense or not? If we are, Andre needs to start covering someone, and the rotations and effort need to improve. If not, well, see Phoenix and let Doug Moe run the offense. 

All this points to one thing - Coach Karl. Either he isn't doing his job or the players aren't listening to him. If the players aren't listening to him and he's giving sound instruction, some players needs to go. The NBA is too competitive now to sit around waiting for player's attitudes to come along. If they're with it, cool. If not, they can go. Karl, however, needs to start being fair with everyone. If our two wonderful point guards don't want to pass, sit their asses on the bench. DerMarr playing well? Give him some damn time. He needs to stop playing favorites and tell the team exactly what he wants done. If they don't wanna do it, either get rid of those guys who don't wanna get with the program or bring someone in here who the players will listen to. It's real simple to me. 

Now, once we've got those issues handled, we can talk about personell.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

CAUTION: GOOD POST BELOW!




RoddneyThaRippa said:


> I could care less who we bring in. This team has too many internal problems to be worried about personell.
> 
> Are we a running team or not? If we are, tell Andre and the rest of the team to push the tempo or start exploring trade options with their agents.
> 
> ...


This really sums up the team. Excellent points and glaring issues that cannot be solved by trading one guy and bringing in one shooter. This team does have far too many other things going on than just a "2" guard.

My frustration with George Karl is growing. I'm starting to think maybe he doesn't have that edge anymore. Maybe hiring a young coach a la Mike Brown or Eddie Jordan with some fire would have been better than getting a geezer that is asleep at the wheel.

But maybe the players are just not buying into the system for whatever reasons...Great post and definitely good reasons.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

calling out karl AFTER we are out is hardly a good post. ive been frustrated with him since last year when everybody thought he was GOD 

but rodney is right. focus on a direction before we just start spending money like the knicks...

hey timmons! u want a young firey young coach? elston turner would be PERFECT! ive been lobbying him since the day addelman was kicked out of sac. hes gonna be a GREAT coach i know it...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

you guys, its a double edged sword.

you can say these "internal problems" can be at least partially caused by personell.

if a few people could make an outside shot, i think a lot of issues would go away, and we'd be well on our way to winning 50 games (or even more next year).

I think over the summer the front office has to put a balanced lineup together for Karl. You gotta give the man a full deck of cards. Then if these issues still arise then you start talking about axing the coach.

Regardless of the mistakes that everyone is pointing out in the series (both player and coaching) you must believe if someone could make an outside shot that it would have been a different series. Im not saying denver would have won, but kiki can axed basically because he didnt put his team in a position to be competitive.

Once the playoffs start and you play the same team night after night your weakness is going to be exploited. Kinda like how sacramento (of the past) had such great season records, but then in the playoffs they got competely railroaded because they didnt play good defense. In a nutshell thats the biggest overall issue with the nuggets. They could run and gun their way into the playoffs playing different teams each night, and quite frankily also playing teams of lesser caliber as well. But when you play a solid team night in and night out. If they make good adjustments, which they did. they begged anyone but melo to throw up and outside shot, and it worked. 

Now this is exactly why throwing the MLE earlier at Raja Bell would have made sense over Earl Watson. Raja didnt make the full MLE with the suns, so if kiki wanted him, he could have had him.

then you look at all the other opportunites to get a wing. wings are the most common players in the nba, they are a dime a dozen, and kiki managed to bring everything to the team, but a shooting guard capable of doing what the team needs. Long Range shooting and defense. With 6-2 Andre Miller. You have no outside shot presence. Thats why the starting two guard needs to be a very good role player that is long. Able to play defense and able to shoot. 

Prototypical role players Stephen Jackson (minus any issues he has) Raja Bell (not quite a long but has good size for the two guard spot) Morris Peterson (can do everything we need) JR Smith (young player with potiental) 

add someone like that to the roster, and if karl still cant get the job done, then ill jump on the replace karl bandwagon. until then, i'll stay off it


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

I definitely don't think he needs to be replaced, BUT hiring coaches is funny.

Guys lose one place then get hired at another and are expected to do great.

Oh well. Karl has time here. HE's under contract, but I'd like to see his players buy in better. And I don't know why they are not.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

look at all the talent karl has had to work with in his career, lol!

funny thing is i look at all that OFFENSIVE talent, and hes still never run a very good offense. he just doesnt! defensively, ya, hes a good coach and hes helped us, but offensively hes NEVER done anything. is it karls fault? lol, NO!!! its kiki's fault for hiring him. what did u expect from karl???

karl made us better, but ultimately we are gonna need to go in another direction if we wanna be a contender.

JMO


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> NO!!! its kiki's fault for hiring him. what did u expect from karl???
> 
> 
> JMO


you really think kiki hired him?


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> you really think kiki hired him?


So what if he had a gun pointed at his head?










Kroenke is the Mouse! Quiet little ***** :curse:


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

haha ur right


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