# The Sabonis Effect?



## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

I was just reading on the EL site that a couple of teams had signed new big men to their rosters: Pau-Orthez--Mate Skelin, Efes Pilsen--Goran Nikolic. I don't know anything about these teams or these players, but it got me wondering.....

Is the return of Sabonis to the EL making any impact in roster decisions? Or is he really too old to be considered a threat to the other teams? 

What will his role on Zalgiris in EL games be? Will it be token symbolic minues? Or will he be in there to make a difference?

Neither of the teams mentioned above are in Group B, but assuming Zalgiris advances these teams could meet Sabonis on the court. Good big men are always an asset to a basketball team, but is there more to these signing than that?


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Crazy Fan From Idaho</b>!
> I was just reading on the EL site that a couple of teams had signed new big men to their rosters: Pau-Orthez--Mate Skelin, Efes Pilsen--Goran Nikolic. I don't know anything about these teams or these players, but it got me wondering.....
> 
> Is the return of Sabonis to the EL making any impact in roster decisions? Or is he really too old to be considered a threat to the other teams?
> ...


No, I don't think this is the case. I do not think that the return of Sabonis will affect so much the other european teams, in terms of their rosters. I have no idea really what is the plan of Zalgiris (i.e. to rely heavily on Sabas or to just give him some symbolic minutes). 

Efes signed Nikolic because their big-man Kaspars Kambala was transfered to Real Madrid and therefore they had to replace him. Same goes for Pau-Orthez. 

I don't want to disapoint you but I don't think that the rest of the European teams take the return of Sabas too seriously. If this is the right thing to do or not, time will show!


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

I appreciate your perspective, ZH! That's *exactly* what I am looking for on this forum. :yes: 

I think it will be very interesting how his return plays out. Having watched and followed his stats very, very carefully this last season in the NBA, I know as much as anybody how much impact Sabonis can make even in limited minutes. The guy is absolutely amazing. Much depends, however, on how he feels physically and how his teammates react and respond to his presence.

Sabonis essentially played with a new team unfamiliar with his play last season. That might sound strange, but he said so himself. The coach didn't know how to play him and there were many new guys on the team that didn't know how to, either. Really, though, it is very easy. Get the ball to Sabonis at the top of the key, then cut to the basket. He WILL get you the ball. Then get the ball in the basket. 

Sabonis is the ultimate assist man. He is a guard in a giant's body. He runs the offense as well as or better than any Blazer. He will score--count on it---but he would rather get the ball to someone else who will score. What Zalgiris needs are agressive cutters and dependable scorers who don't go to sleep on the court and get hit in the back of the head with a pin-point pass from Sabonis!!!

***** Warning: CFFI tends to write essays about Sabonis. I hope that's okay on this board. The Blazer board has gotten used to my dissertations and patiently indulges my fanaticism.


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Crazy Fan From Idaho</b>!
> 
> I think it will be very interesting how his return plays out. Having watched and followed his stats very, very carefully this last season in the NBA, I know as much as anybody how much impact Sabonis can make even in limited minutes.


You're right on the money here. I seriously doubt Sabonis came back to Zalgiris to play 30-35 minutes a game, although I'm pretty sure he could still utterly dominate 90% of the big men playing in Europe (not hard to tell after seeing his performance against the Mavs in the playoffs). As you said he will be mainly utilised as point-center thanks to his passing skills (I still dream about that over-the-head pass he made to Wells in the playoffs  :drool: ). I guess he will also be used when Zalgiris has problems on the defensive board as he is still a very good glass eater. 



> What Zalgiris needs are agressive cutters and dependable scorers who don't go to sleep on the court and get hit in the back of the head with a pin-point pass from Sabonis!!!


Agreed. And I wouldn't worry about that as Lithunian bball has always produced excellent slashers (Marciulionis, Karnishovas, Stombergas to name a few). Also I think the majority of Lithuanian players grew up idolizing Sabonis so I guess they are well aware of Sabas being the best passing center ever. 




> ***** Warning: CFFI tends to write essays about Sabonis. I hope that's okay on this board. The Blazer board has gotten used to my dissertations and patiently indulges my fanaticism.


Please feel free to write as much on Sabonis as you like. You can never praise him too much in my eyes


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## Just dunk it (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Crazy Fan From Idaho</b>!
> I was just reading on the EL site that a couple of teams had signed new big men to their rosters: Pau-Orthez--Mate Skelin, Efes Pilsen--Goran Nikolic. I don't know anything about these teams or these players, but it got me wondering.....
> 
> Is the return of Sabonis to the EL making any impact in roster decisions? Or is he really too old to be considered a threat to the other teams?


He's considered a good player but no way a player of his age and phisycal conditions can be considered a threat by his own even at Europe. Must wait until the team gets his final roster but by now the only good player in the Zalguiris Roster is Sabonis. Well maybe Tanoka Beard coul be considered as a good player but lacks of concentration and regularity.



> Originally posted by <b>Crazy Fan From Idaho</b>!What will his role on Zalgiris in EL games be? Will it be token symbolic minues? Or will he be in there to make a difference?


I can't say exactly how many minutes he will play but we have to consider many aspects:
-He's 39 now
-He will only play Euroleague
-The group is the most difficult: CSKA Moscow, Maccabi Tel Aviv, Skipper Bologna, Panathinaikos, Unicaja, Virtus Bologna, Zalgiris Kaunas
Krka Novo Mesto.
-Matches here in Europe are 40 minutes long (10+10, 10+10)
I think he will play 20 mpg but I think it will be difficult to Zalguiris to reach the next phase, Top16, because I consider they would be sixth, and only the best sixth team is classified.



> Originally posted by <b>Crazy Fan From Idaho</b>!Neither of the teams mentioned above are in Group B, but assuming Zalgiris advances these teams could meet Sabonis on the court. Good big men are always an asset to a basketball team, but is there more to these signing than that?


Zalguiris signed a three year extension with Euroleague. I'm sure he wants to get Zalguiris to the top again (they won the 1999 Euroleague) as he is co-owner and maybe starting a new project with his name in the roster will help to attract good players.
Maybe that's what you called "more". 

Greetings.

Hey, and that's my first post! :yes:


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

Nice post, Just dunk it, and welcome to the board.  You probably see that I am new to this board myself, but that doesn't stop me from welcoming someone even newer. 

Thanks for your comments and perspective on Sabonis.

What I don't understand is how Sabonis can still be considered an important piece of artillery in the NBA, but not be considered so in the EL. Have you guys not been watching him over the last few years???????

Is it just because he hasn't played in Europe for so very long?


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> He's considered a good player but no way a player of his age and phisycal conditions can be considered a threat by his own even at Europe.


LOL LOL LOL LOL OLO LOL LOL

Get serious Malone can be threat in NBA and Sabonis can't be one in Europe...:cheers:- I'll drink sth to forget that...


Duenas had an impact on Barcelonas game in euroleague- and he can't be compared to one of the best europe players ever... imagine defense dragging in the paint to guard Sabonis while he is passing to Cota or Timinskas or Stombergas... Lithuanians have been always known for their 3pt shooting abilities... Why should he be playn for the whole 40 minutes... he can destroy any euro team in 10-15 minutes.


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## Just dunk it (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> 
> 
> > Originally posted by <b>Just dunk it</b>!
> ...


Well I consider Sabonis as one of the best (if not the best) Euro Centers and one of the best NBA centers ever but no way he can be a Superstar at 39 in Europe. You have to consider he won't play for a winning team like the Trail Blazers. They would have luck if they get classified for Top16.




> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> Duenas had an impact on Barcelonas game in euroleague- and he can't be compared to one of the best europe players ever... imagine defense dragging in the paint to guard Sabonis while he is passing to Cota or Timinskas or Stombergas... Lithuanians have been always known for their 3pt shooting abilities... Why should he be playn for the whole 40 minutes...


I think neither Cota, Timinskas or Stombergas will play for Zalguiris next year.
And you consider Sabonis will play 40 minutes. Are you joking? :laugh: 
And even if he plays 40 minutes he won't win a game by his own even at Europe assuming he plays at 100% the entire 40 minutes which is near impossible.




> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> he can destroy any euro team in 10-15 minutes.


Yeah, like he did at 1999 European against Spain. Maybe he would remember that "great" Center called "De Miguel" his whole life. And had passed 4 years since that... 

NBA is one thing Euro basket is another different.

Greetings.


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't think Matiz was saying that Sabonis can or will or should play 40 min. That's ridiculous. I think he was saying the opposite.....that Sabonis doesn't have to play 40 min when he has a good team surrounding him. Whether Zalgiris will have a good team to put around him or not remains to be seen. If they get the players they hope to, I think they will be a force to be reckoned with.....with Sabonis as the anchor.

Just dunk it, did you watch Sabonis at all this season????? He is still a great player. He is running on creaky wheels, but he STILL can dominate in the half court game. Now I don't know much about Euro ball, but I have an idea that Sabonis is going to surprise some people. Time will tell, though.....

Please explain what you mean by "NBA is one thing Euro basket is another different." Do you think that Euro ball is more demanding than the NBA????


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Please explain what you mean by "NBA is one thing Euro basket is another different." Do you think that Euro ball is more demanding than the NBA????


I think what he means is that European basketball is different than the NBA. European basketball is more team-oriented while in the NBA the team with the best player always wins the championship, whether that's Jordan, Shaq or Duncan it doesn't matter.

If Sabonis doesn't have a good team around him he won't be able to do anything. 

I haven't paid much attention to the summer transactions but I doubt any of the teams really worry about Sabonis because of his age. Most fans in Europe consider this season a farewell tour for Sabonis. 

The reason most teams are trying to find big men is because there are very few of them left. The good european centers have all gone to the NBA and now that they're being drafted at an even younger age than they used to be, it's become more and more difficult for most teams to find good centers.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> And you consider Sabonis will play 40 minutes. Are you joking?


eNGLISH NO GUUD MAN???:whofarted 

Crazy fan- I still remember Sabonis playn for Real Madrid... I stopped thinking about MJ and Hakeem- Sabonis was the man.
Anyway Lithuanian basket is like former yugo, source of unmeasureable talent... If they will sell Timinskas, Cota... they will simply make new ones- give oportunity to younger players.:cheers:


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## Just dunk it (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Crazy Fan From Idaho</b>!
> Please explain what you mean by "NBA is one thing Euro basket is another different." Do you think that Euro ball is more demanding than the NBA????


Not at all. NBA is more demanding than Euro but there are very good players or good players that played in the NBA that didn't make good seasons at Europe.

That's because here the game is more team oriented, less physical, more tactical, and you have the requirement to win each game you play.

The average NBA player is 100% physical, 0 tactical and is not habituated to the obligation of winning. At NBA if you play for a winning team you'll lose at least 20-30 games a season. Here at Europe a winning team can't lose more than 10 games a season.

Also a winnning team here in Europe cannot have a player shooting more than 20 shots a game... well perhaps if he gets more than a 50% FG. But it's not usual, a player making more than 15 shots a game is soooooooooooo selfish.

Greetings and sorry about my poor english. I'm improving. :yes:


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>qwertyu</b>!
> I think what he means is that European basketball is different than the NBA. European basketball is more team-oriented while in the NBA the team with the best player always wins the championship, whether that's Jordan, Shaq or Duncan it doesn't matter.
> 
> If Sabonis doesn't have a good team around him he won't be able to do anything.


Absolutely agree, qwertu. 

Sabonis has said repeatedly that he doesn't want a team that depends on him to be the main guy. That was one reason why he returned to the NBA instead of playing with Real Madrid or Unicaja last season.



> I haven't paid much attention to the summer transactions but I doubt any of the teams really worry about Sabonis because of his age. Most fans in Europe consider this season a farewell tour for Sabonis.


I think that is exactly what this is.....a farewell tour. I think that's what he gave to Portland also, although it wasn't announced as such and so we had high hopes he would return. 



> The reason most teams are trying to find big men is because there are very few of them left. The good european centers have all gone to the NBA and now that they're being drafted at an even younger age than they used to be, it's become more and more difficult for most teams to find good centers.


So true about big men! The NBA is looking for them all over the world and luring them away from their own countries. 

Ironically, at the same time, NBA analysts say the courts are getting too small. Player size is larger than it used to be and the big oafs keep stepping out of bounds!!


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> 
> 
> eNGLISH NO GUUD MAN???:whofarted
> ...


I hope you are right. 

I heard from a Lith that Tanoka Beard is returning to Zalgiris for next season. I'm not sure if that is all confirmed or not, but I was told it was for sure. 

There is an article on the Zalgiris Lith site about Tanoka, but I can't read it and they haven't translated it onto their English site yet. :sigh: 

They'll need more than Tanoka and Sabonis. Hope they can get some other good ones too.


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Just dunk it</b>!
> Not at all. NBA is more demanding than Euro but there are very good players or good players that played in the NBA that didn't make good seasons at Europe.
> 
> That's because here the game is more team oriented, less physical, more tactical, and you have the requirement to win each game you play.
> ...


Your English is just fine. Don't worry about that!! I hope language is not a barrier keeping anyone from feeling free to post here. Your English is much better than my Spanish!!!

You seem to be making the point that because Euroball is different than the NBA that Sabonis won't do as well there as he did in America. Am I understanding you right?

The thing is, Sabonis still plays Euroball and always has. That has ALWAYS been his style of play even in the NBA. He is absolutely a team player. He doesn't WANT to be the go-to guy. He WANTS to get the ball to a teammate. He wants to win--EVERY game. He has little patience for the mentality that some games are more important than others. ALL games are critical. 

I remember hearing a story about this sort of thing. The Blazers had just finished a grueling 5-game road trip in the East. They had lost to Chicago, but had won each of the other games---going 4-1. Mike Rice, the radio color analyst for the Blazers, making conversation with Sabonis mentioned how well the trip had gone since they had only lost one game. I think it was during Rasheed Wallace's 7-games suspension or something and they were missing a major player. Anyway, it went something like this:

Rice: "Good road trip, wasn't it, Arvydas?"
Sabonis: "We lost 1 game." 
Rice: "Well, yes........"
Sabonis: "Who did we lose to?" 
Rice: "It was to the Bulls." 
Sabonis: "Are they a good team?" 
Rice: "Well, no. They really aren't."
Sabonis: "Then it wasn't a good road trip."

End of subject.


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## Just dunk it (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Crazy Fan From Idaho</b>!
> 
> 
> Your English is just fine. Don't worry about that!! I hope language is not a barrier keeping anyone from feeling free to post here. Your English is much better than my Spanish!!!
> ...


Sorry, not referring to Sabonis just making a speech about the diferences between European basket and NBA. :shy:

The major thing I think is he's now 39, his last season at NBA was huge and Zalgiris won't be a top team at Euroelague (so he won't take seriously the season). I think it's just a transition season to get Zalgiris to Euro top in next years.

That's because I think he won't be a major force in the Euroleague, but it's just my opinion. 
It would be nice though to see the old time Sabonis playing again in Europe but I think that time passed. 

Greetings.


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