# BBF Official National Player of the Year



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I know some of you already have you minds made up. Still lot of basketball to be played so don't feel like you have to vote right away. We'll use this thread to track the finalists as well as vote. If you'd like to see more than the 3 listed on the poll, feel free to make your opinion heard. If enough agree, we'll add them in.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Turner, and it's not close for me.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Evan Turner


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I only included the 3 that are on there because I just heard the guys on the telecast I was watching mention them. Looking at DeMarcus Cousins' stats, he may be more deserving than a Wesley Johnson.

Like I said before, feel free to bring up some more names.

BTW, was the finished total 8 games that Turner missed?


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

DeMarcus Cousins and it's not even close.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

BlueBaron said:


> DeMarcus Cousins and it's not even close.


Evan Turner says epic fail.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Evan Turner


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I have to go with Wall despite how much I have raved about Kentucky. At the end of the day they are 27-2, yes its a talented squad but the guy has a freshman has steadied the waters on that team and saved their behinds numerous times. They should have lost a couple more games. Wall's POY.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

It is Evan Turner in in as big a landslide as I have seen in recent memory. 

DeMarcus Cousins is good, but can't give it to a guy who only plays 23 mpg. I don't understand how Wall is in the discussion, considering he hasn't even been the best player on his team in conference play.

Wesley Johnson may have been there early, but his recent play has knocked him out of contention. His stats slipped pretty substantially, but more damning is the fact that his team doesn't even need him to win in most games.

I would nominate Greivis Vasquez for consideration, but wouldn't give him the award. James Anderson as well...


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Agreed, with Watters but gonna wait to actually vote


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Easily Evan Turner. The guy is a mere triple-double threat every game. If he would have been healthy all year, I have no doubt that Ohio St. would be a top 5 team.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

I'm going to stick with Jon Scheyer. 19 PPG, 5.5 APG, 3.5 RPG, 40% 3 PT, 3.0 A/TO ratio.

I said it on our previous POY thread - no way it's Wall. He's averaging four turnovers a game for crying out loud!


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Easily Evan Turner. The guy is a mere triple-double threat every game. If he would have been healthy all year, I have no doubt that Ohio St. would be a top 5 team.


Yes...a non-Gonzaga post! I didn't think it was possible! I thought for sure you were going to say Matt Bouldin.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Scheyer is barely shooting 40% from the floor. He's also got 2 players on his team that are arguably just as important as he is. If we are talking First Team AA, an argument can be made for Scheyer. NPOY? 

I don't doubt that he is a vital part of one of the best teams in the country, but I would still strive to give the award to the best player in a close call. This is undoubtedly Turner. Considering he puts up better stats and means more to his team as well, I don't see how Scheyer can be POY.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> Yes...a non-Gonzaga post! I didn't think it was possible! I thought for sure you were going to say Matt Bouldin.


I don't think you realize I have almost 9,000 posts on here. If you want to go back and read my posts, you'll find that of that 9,000 very few have to do with the Zags. Then again, your kind of dense and tend to ignore any kind of facts that get in the way of your argument.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> I don't think you realize I have almost 9,000 posts on here. If you want to go back and read my posts, you'll find that of that 9,000 very few have to do with the Zags. Then again, your kind of dense and tend to ignore any kind of facts that get in the way of your argument.


I think more would agree with me than you based on how much you post on here about Gonzaga.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Scheyer is barely shooting 40% from the floor. He's also got 2 players on his team that are arguably just as important as he is. If we are talking First Team AA, an argument can be made for Scheyer. NPOY?
> 
> I don't doubt that he is a vital part of one of the best teams in the country, but I would still strive to give the award to the best player in a close call. This is undoubtedly Turner. Considering he puts up better stats and means more to his team as well, I don't see how Scheyer can be POY.


It's POY, not MVP. Smith and Singler are obviously both having great years, but not nearly to the level of Scheyer. The play at PG last year when Scheyer was not the point was a disaster. It's been incredible this year thanks to him.

I find it humorous that people scoff at the idea of Scheyer being mentioned in this discussion, but Johnson gets mentioned without a second thought.


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

ET phone home.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

Don't think he's actually POY, but I think Jordan Crawford's name should come up as a nominee.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

coolpohle said:


> It's POY, not MVP.


So how do you define POY? Best player? Most accomplished? Most important? Best player on best team? A combinaton of them all? (I vote for the latter). 



> Smith and Singler are obviously both having great years, but not nearly to the level of Scheyer. The play at PG last year when Scheyer was not the point was a disaster. It's been incredible this year thanks to him.
> 
> I find it humorous that people scoff at the idea of Scheyer being mentioned in this discussion, but Johnson gets mentioned without a second thought.



Agree with you here, totally a product of his early season play. Johnson is no more in the running than Scheyer. This is why I call it a landslide. Turner is clearly a cut above everybody else. 

I don't have a problem with Scheyer being mentioned, but has his season been better than Greivis Vasquez's? Not in my opinion...

If you honestly think Scheyer is the guy, I'd love to read your breakdown of why he is better than Turner.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Willo said:


> Don't think he's actually POY, but I think Jordan Crawford's name should come up as a nominee.


Can't argue. The A-10 is for real, so is Crawford.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Well, Turner is obviously a great player and I have no problem with anyone giving him their vote. I like Scheyer because his A/TO ratio is better and because he's shooting lights out from deep. Vasquez has had a very nice season. But I think Scheyer has been consistently better in pretty much every aspect.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I don't doubt that Vasquez is more TO-prone. But I don't think Scheyer would be shooting even 40% if he had the offensive responsibility that Vasquez does. His Ast/TO ratio would also decline significantly. 

A lot of POY should be about your effectiveness within the system you play in, but I think Vasquez would be a heck of a lot more efficient if he were playing next to an athletic combo guard like Nolan Smtih.

Scheyer is in a position where he isn't required to force his will upon the game. I'm not saying his sparkling decision making isn't a factor, but I don't think it holds as much weight in a NPOY race, where the winner needs to be able to take over games.

Now if he were putting up ridiculous stats in this situation (like Lawson last year), I could see it. But his numbers don't jump off the page to me, and neither does his impact - at least not on the NPOY scale.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

If he still had a 6:1 asst 2 to ratio, i'd be callin for some more love for scheyer, but i agree with what you're saying, JW.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> It's POY, not MVP. Smith and Singler are obviously both having great years, but not nearly to the level of Scheyer. The play at PG last year when Scheyer was not the point was a disaster. It's been incredible this year thanks to him.
> 
> I find it humorous that people scoff at the idea of Scheyer being mentioned in this discussion, but Johnson gets mentioned without a second thought.


You've got to be ****ing kidding me. 20/9/6 >>>>>> 19/5/3

Turner takes 1 more shot per game and converts them at a 12% higher rate. Turner's eFG% (a stat I'm sure you understand and use to support your argument often) is 55.4% against 52.2% for Scheyer. And you definitely don't want to get into the discussion about defense. Sit down ya bum!


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> It's POY, not MVP. Smith and Singler are obviously both having great years, but not nearly to the level of Scheyer.
> 
> 
> The play at PG last year when Scheyer was not the point was a disaster. It's been incredible this year thanks to him.
> ...


1. So even if its POY, what exactly does Turner have to do to be POY. The definition are ambigous but Turner is seemingly POY, MVP, The Big ****..etc.

2. Is that not an MVP argument about the Duke PG position, not a POY argument.

3. I do not think anyone, on this board anyway, is that high on Johnson anymore.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I would nominate Greivis Vasquez for consideration...


41,7,6,2 in 2OT win over VT

Scheyer is gonna have a tough time getting the POY award for his own conference!


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Nimreitz said:


> You've got to be ****ing kidding me. 20/9/6 >>>>>> 19/5/3
> 
> Turner takes 1 more shot per game and converts them at a 12% higher rate. Turner's eFG% (a stat I'm sure you understand and use to support your argument often) is 55.4% against 52.2% for Scheyer. And you definitely don't want to get into the discussion about defense. Sit down ya bum!


Sit down ya bum? Relax buddy. If you can't respect a guy that's 19-5.5, 3.5, 3-1 A/TO ratio, 40% from deep, 89% from the line, that's pretty harsh.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

TM said:


> 41,7,6,2 in 2OT win over VT
> 
> Scheyer is gonna have a tough time getting the POY award for his own conference!


13-32 and 5-15 from deep. Give me 32 shots and 15 three's and I'll score 41, too.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

JW, are you the "Watters" in this tweet???



> *DraftExpress:* Its true RT @rodgerbohn: Remember Watters saying @thekidet was a Brandon Roy clone in summer of 2006? We've gotta give him his props, JG.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

coolpohle said:


> 13-32 and 5-15 from deep. Give me 32 shots and 15 three's and I'll score 41, too.


Oh for pete's sake. He just single-handedly beat an NCAA Tournament team on the road. No way in hell Maryland wins that game with Scheyer at the helm.

And 41 points on 32 shots isn't that bad, really...


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> 13-32 and 5-15 from deep. Give me 32 shots and 15 three's and I'll score 41, too.


haha ya i noticed that. i woudln't put it past you, cool


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Oh for pete's sake. He just single-handedly beat an NCAA Tournament team on the road. No way in hell Maryland wins that game with Scheyer at the helm.
> 
> And 41 points on 32 shots isn't that bad, really...


33% shooting and 41% overall is not something I'm going to praise someone for. Heck, Fredette dropped 49 in on Arizona on 9 less attempts. Not one person on here said a word. So why would I bother going nuts for him?

I swear if Scheyer didn't have a Duke name on the front of his jersey he'd get a lot more props.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

coolpohle said:


> 33% shooting and 41% overall is not something I'm going to praise someone for. Heck, Fredette dropped 49 in on Arizona on 9 less attempts. Not one person on here said a word. So why would I bother going nuts for him?
> 
> I swear if Scheyer didn't have a Duke name on the front of his jersey he'd get a lot more props.


If Scheyer had put up 40+ and single-handedly beat VaTech on the road, you'd still have a boner.

Of course, that never would happen because Scheyer isn't that type of player.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Jonathan Watters said:


> If Scheyer had put up 40+ and single-handedly beat VaTech on the road, you'd still have a boner.
> 
> Of course, that never would happen because Scheyer isn't that type of player.


You mean selfish enough to take 32 shots in a game? 

Milbourne, Mosley, and Hayes are all capable players.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Capable second options in the ACC? You are out of your mind. Milbourne might serve as a decent 3rd option on a mediocre team. The other two wouldn't even start on most ACC teams...


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Capable second options in the ACC? You are out of your mind. Milbourne might serve as a decent 3rd option on a mediocre team. The other two wouldn't even start on most ACC teams...


They may not be stars, but they are certainly capable options, and certainly don't deserve to combine for 10 less shots than Vasquez in a single game.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I can't believe you actually think Vasquez is holding his teammates back, rather than making them look way better than they actually are. 

You aren't that dumb, and you know full well that if Vasquez wasn't on that team Maryland wouldn't win 3 games in the ACC this year.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

John Wall looked like he had this sewn up for awhile...now it isn't even certain he's the SEC POY anymore. Its Evan Turner right now on the national scene. I love what Scheyer is doing but Evans has him beat in those three main categories.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I can't believe Cousins isn't getting more love. His numbers are better than Wall.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

In-conference

Player 1

34.9 mpg, 45.2% FG, 80.0% FT, 40.8% 3-PT, 56.4% TS%, 4.4 Reb, 7.0 Ast, 3.6 TO, 20.7 ppg

Player 2

38.1 mpg, 37.7% FG, 84.8% FT, 36.5% 3-PT, 54.4% TS%, 3.0 Reb, 4.7 Ast, 2.2 TO, 18.5 ppg

Pretty obvious which player is ACC POY...


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

well and it'll be even more obvious if MD wins the conference

Duke tomorrow at UVA, then at Maryland, then home vs. UNC

Maryland home vs Duke then at UVA.

Both with 11 wins. I can definitely see MD winning the conference.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Yeah, the season isn't over yet and if GV implodes against Duke I can see things shifting back in Scheyer's favor. Duke is certainly the better team, so I don't know why you are conceding a loss this week. 

But based on what has happened up to this point, GV is clear-cut ACC POY.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> Sit down ya bum? Relax buddy. If you can't respect a guy that's 19-5.5, 3.5, 3-1 A/TO ratio, 40% from deep, 89% from the line, that's pretty harsh.


Where the **** did I say I can't respect Scheyer? Because in a totally separate thread back in like December I said that he shouldn't get a look as an NBA player? I respect Scheyer! Just because I don't think he's in Evan Turner's league for NPOY doesn't mean I don't respect him or even think he's one of the best college basketball players in the country. For what it's worth he's a first team All American on my ballot right now with Turner, Wall, Cousins, and probably Scottie Reynolds (and I really hate myself for that one because I despise SR; maybe I'd sneak Monroe in there). **** cool, every single time I get in an argument with you, you create some ridiculous straw-man of what I'm saying.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> I don't think you realize I have almost 9,000 posts on here. If you want to go back and read my posts, you'll find that of that 9,000 very few have to do with the Zags. Then again, your kind of dense and tend to ignore any kind of facts that get in the way of your argument.


but it seems like when you are on the college boards it is about them all the time


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

POY is Even Turner


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

kansasalumn said:


> POY is Even Turner



You voted for "other"...


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

haha. i can change that if you want, ka


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

BlueBaron said:


> You voted for "other"...


yes I know. I was going to vote for Sherron Collins, but I do not want to be a homer pick like someone else here, so after I thought a bit, Turner is the most logical choice.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

TM said:


> haha. i can change that if you want, ka


yea


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Homer pick??? Is HB still picking Hansbrough?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

BlueBaron said:


> Homer pick??? Is HB still picking Hansbrough?


Ed Davis.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

^^ :lol: Wow that's crazy talk even from HB!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Ah Mr. assumption is at it again


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

pssst... I think he means you JW...


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

How come you don't get a nickname for "assuming" he would pick Hansbrough? At least the guy I "assumed" he would pick actually played college basketball this year...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

John Wall
Ed Davis

Yeah I am sure if you look hard enough they start to look alike lol, maybe even same pronunciation


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> How come you don't get a nickname for "assuming" he would pick Hansbrough? At least the guy I "assumed" he would pick actually played college basketball this year...


I'm a UK fan. My nickname would read like this- m***** f*****...


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> John Wall
> Ed Davis
> 
> Yeah I am sure if you look hard enough they start to look alike lol, maybe even same pronunciation


Ed Davis is definitely a John Wall-level passer.

And I really believe you said that.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You know what they say about making assumptions....


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Why is it showing I voted for Scheyer? Did the world end and someone forgot to tell me?


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I added him in, took away your vote from the Scheyer column, then gave it to "Other" (Cousins)

Won't let me edit the part where it shows who voted for whom. Only the total #'s. Sorry.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Geez you're a lot of trouble.


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