# Diaw and Jones making the Suns forget about QRich and Johnson



## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

Thus far:

Diaw:

8.5 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 6.3 APG, 50% FG, 1.75 BPG, 2.0 TOPG

Jones:

13.0 PPG, 2.8 RPG, 1.0 APG, 45% FG, 50% 3P


Johnson:

16.7 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.0 BPG, 43.2% FG, 35.7% 3P, 4.0 TOPG

Richardson:

7.7 PG, 3.3 RPG, 1.7 APG, 34% FG, 27% 3P, 1.7 TOPG


Salaries:

Diaw+Jones= 3.5 Million

Joe+Q= 28 Million


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Looks like the Suns are getting pretty good value.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Could be back-to-back EOYs for Bryan.


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## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

2 youthful and exciting up and coming players, very happy with Diaw and Jones.

Diaw looks like he has so much fun out there, and I know Jones is loving every minute of being part of this system where he can do what he does best.

Yea, gotta give Bryan some major props.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Jones is a very talented player. Losing Q is not a big deal, but neither one of these guys are JJ, although I like James a lot.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

what about raja bell? yeah, none of the guys are quite as efficient or talented as JJ, but certainly james jones is proving to be a better shooter so far than both JJ and qRich. i think while less talented, these new players are still getting the job done just the same. they weren't a good team because of JJ or Qrich(if they were the knicks and hawks would be winning right now), they were a good team because of Nash(for the most part anyway).


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Yeah, I like all 3 with Bell included. I like seeing him getting in it with Kobe a little bit. 

He's shooting well so far at least. 50% fg %(18/36) and 44 % from 3(although just 4/9. 11.5 ppg, 2.3 assists.

http://aol.nba.com/playerfile/raja_bell/index.html?nav=page


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

I am VERY happy with our new players. They are young, talented, play hard, and alot cheaper.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

*Diaw+Jones= 3.5 Million

Joe+Q= 28 Million*

Holy.... no wonder they made the trade! :banana:


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## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

jibikao said:


> *Diaw+Jones= 3.5 Million
> 
> Joe+Q= 28 Million*
> 
> Holy.... no wonder they made the trade! :banana:


You got that right. I mean think about the future for a second.... being able to save 25 million a year is huge (next year it'll be right around 18 million or so because Joe was front loaded only for this season but still...). With that money we accomplish a couple things:

A. Easily being able to sign Stoudey to the MAX
B. Not having to trade Shawn Marion (who is a much more valuable player than Joe... no offense)
C. Giving us the ablitity to.... *gasp* actually improve our team in the future (sorry Knick fans)


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## Tiz (May 9, 2005)

Carbo04 said:


> I am VERY happy with our new players. They are young, talented, play hard, and alot cheaper.



Could not have said it any better! :cheers:


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Big props for Bryan Colangelo :clap: 

the man has a great eye for talent.
- he selected Marion with the #9 pick
- he selected Amare with the #9 pick
- he took chance on Joe Johnson
- he selected Barbosa
- he replaced Q's three point shooting with James Jones (way cheaper, better shooter)
- he didn't expect to see Joe go, but he managed to get a great utility player in Diaw in return (of all the players the Hawks has, he chose Diaw. He could've chosen Childress, who's considered better value by a lot of people but IMO wouldn't help the Suns as much as Diaw)

With the ability to see talent like that, it's no surprise that he's able to save a lot of money.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Hmm, I don't know at this point. One thing I do know is that Q would kill you in the end of the game. So, we have guys that play well through 40 minutes then start to dwindle. Versus a guy who generally played just ok during the game and was very dangerous at the end of the game. I dunno, it's a tough comparison there. Suns are lacking his killer instinct to put teams away, Q was just nasty with that. But, how much of that was attributed to the attention put on Amare? When he gets back, it will free the game up for everyone, including Jones. But what happens in the meantime?


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## MeirToTheWise (Nov 9, 2005)

I can't really agree that Q killed teams at the end. I mean the guy disappeared in the playoffs, especially when we needed to close out San Antonio in those first 2 games. True, we had no bench then, but I'm much happier with our current line-up then last years, except for the fact that Amare's injured -.-


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

MeirToTheWise said:


> I can't really agree that Q killed teams at the end. I mean the guy disappeared in the playoffs, especially when we needed to close out San Antonio in those first 2 games. True, we had no bench then, but I'm much happier with our current line-up then last years, except for the fact that Amare's injured -.-


Oh, trust me. I am happy with the changes. Q made a ton of money for what his role was. Yes, he disappeared during the playoffs. I'm talking regular season wins, and why the Suns aren't putting these teams away like they did last year. I can recall at least 4 times last season when Q almost single-handedly put the Suns over the other team at the end of the game.


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## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

Yeah Q had a few game winning tips and some game winning 3s. I think he was really happy here and I think that he's miserable in New York. I think that Joe Johnson, while quiet, had just enough of that killer instinct as well.

As for this year...our dudes are a little more timid, but I think that they grow with experience and will learn to put people away now. I think it would be a lot different if Amare was here. His passion, fire and killer instinct would be contagious and rub off since day one. Players feed off that, sort of like Alonzo Mourning does for the Heat. That isn't quite as present with Amare gone, intangibles that dont show up on the boxscore.


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## bbfan (Oct 8, 2005)

Money wise the suns are in better shape.
Player wise they are not.
JJ & Q were never afraid to put up a shot.
Q was not as good a shooter as JJ, and in fact we may not miss Q as much because hopefully Thomas will score as much when he gets in suns shape, but we will always miss JJ.
He was as good of a natural shooter as there is in the league. In only 5 games so far this year, there has been many shots late in the 4th quarter that did not go in by Bell, Jones, Diaw etc. JJ was almost automatic in that regards.

What is going to happen is that the suns have been set back a year or two with the loss of JJ.
He was in his 4th year, Diaw & Jones are in their 3rd year and will need a year to get familiar with Marion, Amare, and Nash.
When they do, I have no doubt they will be good players. We just lost a chance to win it all this year I am afraid.
I also think if JJ would have stayed he would be putting up big numbers now when Amare is out, and when Amare comes back we would be on our way............!


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## Tiz (May 9, 2005)

I htink they are getting integrated int ot he system and geling just fine, especially Diaw who has been incredible these first few games The one that I think is having a tough time in the new system is KT, he has been doing ok on defense but his scoring is down and his shot seems to be off.


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## Amaretotheline32 (Nov 15, 2005)

All good views, but are they gonna make up joes absence in the playoffs. Well just have to wait and see how the new guys perform in the playoffs. Lets not forget what Q brought to the team. He brought that cocky attitude, the us against the world mentality.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Amaretotheline32 said:


> All good views, but are they gonna make up joes absence in the playoffs. Well just have to wait and see how the new guys perform in the playoffs.


Welcome to BBB.net! True, we have a long way to go before we see what these guys can contribute in the playoffs. Good news is though, Suns were able to defeat Dallas without him. So any production these guys give is already better than what they got from JJ because he missed so many games. Now if a guy goes down, they have a deeper bench to cover the loss. Suns playoff hopes almost solely rests on whether Amare is the same coming back and if Nash and Marion can stay healthy. Unfortunately, Q's cockiness didn't translate into him playing well when the Suns needed him. Plus, I don't know if there's anyone more cocky than Amare Stoudemire.  Good points though.


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

I hope JJ enjoys losing 60+ games on Atlanta while the Suns are likely playoff bound. I think his stats were inflated on Phoenix, and possibly his ego as well.


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

so far , in 11 games :

joe johnson : eff : 14.3 18 pts 43.6% fg 4.2 rbds 4.3 assists 3.5 T.o 38 mn/game


boris diaw : eff : 16.36 10 pts 52.3fg% 6.1 rbds 5.5 assists 1 blk 2 t.o 27 mn/game

(in 38 mn : 13.8 pts 8.4 rbds 7.6 assists eff : 22.6 )

Now what does it mean ? just that atl. i such a terrible team that even a proven player like johnson can't play well in there . At the moment you can't play well for the hawks unless you're a ballhog a la antoine walker , whose only goal is to put up big numbers .


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## Sedd (Sep 1, 2003)

I'll never forget Q and JJ. If anything Leandro has lessened the blow until he got hurt (Damn you Ginobli :curse: !!). Boris does his thing though, but I'm not that impressed with Jones yet.


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## master8492 (Mar 4, 2005)

Nice to see Diaw getting playing minutes.


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

i just found a pretty interesting article regarding johnson/diaw 

 Hawks big deal a trade of fates Diaw thrives on club Johnson left -by sekou smith-



> The Hawks point guard does know all too well the kind of pain Diaw has felt in the past, and he knows exactly what kind of joy the Phoenix power forward/center must be feeling right now.


diaw is a PF/center ? I thought he was a Guard ... lol .. After all it's not easy to define such a versatile player .



> Johnson and Diaw traded places in August as the two principals in a $70 million sign-and-trade deal that changed both their lives — and perhaps the course of their NBA careers. It also changed a franchise. The deal led to the breakup of the Hawks' ownership and removal of Steve Belkin, who disapproved of the trade.
> 
> 
> "It's all about the player finding the right spot. I think it's not just the player, it's more about getting a chance and the position you're in," said Johnson, whose transition from shooting guard to point guard has been a painstaking one for the Hawks. "Boris is in a great position because he's playing with a great point guard in Steve Nash and some really great players, not that he didn't play with great players here. He just has a lot of veterans around him, All-Stars. That makes life a whole lot easier."


"not that he didn't play with great player here" .. well , actually he didn't play with great player in atlanta . you said it Joe 



> "I like to do a bit of everything on the court," he said. "I wanted to try to do a little bit of everything [in Atlanta], the way they make me play here. I'm not asking for minutes. I just wanted to really know what I was supposed to do."


Always the same problem in atlanta .. no collective game .. when you play the game the way Diaw plays it , collective in not a vain word .



> "Hey, Boris couldn't play for me," Hawks coach Mike Woodson said. "He said he didn't want to play for me. He wanted out. But all I can do as a coach is coach a guy the best way I know how, and if he doesn't want to play for me, we have to try and accommodate him.


Now this sound like a lousy excuse IMO . Diaw is playing extremely well this year , he was pretty bad the last 2 years and all you claim he *"could not play for you" *.???? what is it supposed to mean exactly ? 

*all I can do as a coach is coach a guy the best way I know how* ..and the result is very impressive ...

*He said he didn't want to play for me* so what is the problem exactly ? he could not play for you , or he did not want to play for you ? One more phony excuse , uh ?

...ok my rant is over ... for now


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

Another article on diaw :

A little touch of Magic By Royce Webb

quite a good reading .


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

We and the media need to stop writing articles about Diaw!!! That will only increase his market value!!! lol

I want Diaw to stay on the team!!!

Hopefully Diaw doesn't turn out to be another Joe Johnson who thinks he's got it ALL. He wants to be THE MAN on the worst team in NBA. 

Hopefully Diaw stays humble and really wants to help Suns to get to the Final. 


JJ could have stayed but he chose fame/money. The fame he is getting is Negative Fame. LOL JJ


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## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

We need to drill it in his head as fans, that we want him to stay here. I am sure players may read fan posts sometimes, maybe....so lets start makin him feel warm and squishy inside now while we have time to


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## Kicito (Jun 3, 2003)

I do not pretend to read in Diaw's mind but as i've followed his career from his beginning in Pau Ortez to his revelation with the Suns, i can tell you this without any hesitation, Diaw is all about the team and the W. The guy was the only French league MVP that didn't score in double figures, he got the award because of the extreme versatility that you guys are enjoying, he doesn't care about personal stats as long as he is playing and the team is winning. 

I don't pretend to read the future and hindsight is always 20/20, but for those who followed his career in France, it was pretty clear that he was mis-used in Atlanta, Diaw played team ball for a ball club where the team concept has no value. Now he is playing for a real team that plays team ball and of course Diaw is impressive, he couldn't have been traded to a better place for his game.

So as long as he is playing and winning, i don't believe he'll ask for a trade because as far as i know he couldn't care less about being the main guy.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

I followed Diaw since his days in Pau Orthez too. And I second Kicito. As far as I know Diaw doesn't seem to be the player who will let his ego get bigger than his team. But, you never know, this is the NBA. Money and fame is tempting. However, I don't worry too much about it. Diaw is all about winning. I doubt he will ever take the chance to go to a bottom dweller team, even if that means more money. He's already playing for a winner, I think Diaw is really enjoying his time in Phoenix right now. This Suns team is probably the best since Barkley's era, this team still has at least 5 year of great basketball left. And expect Diaw to be a part of that. He's going to be in Phoenix for quite awhile.


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## Jammin (Jul 3, 2005)

Boris is proving all the haters wrong. He people said he can barley play SG, but now look at him, he just got more assits then Nash last night, can play ANY position. ANY.

He has played every position.

He is amazing.

JJ who?


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

I am sure most people know SLAM , and the links which are a sort of blog written by lang whittaker . It's a good read and being totally bball addicted , i happen to read it almost everyday .

In yesterday's (monday's edition) , there are a few comments on diaw and johnson . here is what Lang has to say regarding the situation :



> Yes, I saw Boris Diaw's big games last week, including two 17-point nights. And good for him. He struggled most of the time he was with the Hawks, but *since he's started playing with one of the best point guards in the League he's found his groove(2)*.
> 
> Would I want to do the trade over? No way. As even Suns fans will surely tell you, *Boris is mainly a complementary player, and the Hawks desperately needed a franchise player(1)*, as Joe Johnson has quickly proven to be (did you see his line against Toronto the other night?). I hope Boris keeps playing well, because he's such a nice and good guy. I think this may be one of those deals that worked out well for everyone.
> 
> And of course, leave it to ESPN.com to completely overreact and say that Diaw has a "Mensa-level basketball I.Q." They also say that the Hawks are a "dumb team" because they focused on what Diaw can't do. Well, yeah. They spent years seeing what he could do and they realized that * for what they were trying to accomplish, it wouldn't work out(3)*.


(1)- So joe johnson is a franchise player and Diaw is just a complementary player . Well , i'm not sure to know the exact definition of what a franchise player is suposed to be ... I only know a couple of them : Duncan , O'neal (shaq) , granett . This men are fanchise player , no doubt . But johnson ? give me a break ! * a franchise player, as Joe Johnson has quickly proven to be* When did he prove it exactly ? I don't want to sounds disrespectful , but what did jonhson proved so far ? that he can put up good numbers in a depleted franchise ? then Antoine walker is a franchise player too , since he did the same last year . To tell the truth , if johnson is a franchise player , then there is at least 60 franchise player in the league . 

(2) second unfair line : boris diaw plays well just thanks to Nash . he does not play well because of the system , he does not do well thanks to d'antoni's ability to figure out what osrt of player he is , he does not play well thanks to raja bell or any other sun's player or any other reason . nash is the ultimate reason and the only one .. Ok , Lang , you're telling the ESPN guy was overreacting , but what exactly are you doing then here ? aren't you overacting too ?

(3)*For what the hawks tried to accomplish last year , it did not work out* ... what did they try to accomplish then ? this argument is a complete fake . The reality is that they did not know how to use Boris diaw , not that he did not fit a system , because there were NO system and No collective game . So stop accusing Diaw , look at your coaching staff first . if my team who desperatly needed a PG had drafted MArv williams instead of Chris Paul , I would be really concerned .

ok , end of my rant for today .

PS . I send a mail to lang because i was a little bit annoyed by his comment . I know it's usueles , it's just that I felt better after :biggrin:


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

ballstorm said:


> I am sure most people know SLAM , and the links which are a sort of blog written by lang whittaker . It's a good read and being totally bball addicted , i happen to read it almost everyday .
> 
> In yesterday's (monday's edition) , there are a few comments on diaw and johnson . here is what Lang has to say regarding the situation :
> 
> ...


OMG, are you that Thomas guy who wrote a letter to Lang about Diaw and JJ comparison? :rofl: Nice one. Represent!


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

yes it's me ! :biggrin: 

http://slamonline.com/links/12052005/



> Anyway, let's start with Boris Diaw and Joe Johnson. Thomas writes...





> hello lang. I have been a reader for quite a long time, and I have always appreciated your moderation and your love for the game and the players. But regarding Diaw and Johnson, I just think you are not totally fair.
> 
> You wrote: "Boris is mainly a complementary player, and the Hawks desperately needed a franchise player, as Joe Johnson has quickly proven to be."
> 
> ...





> Why do I suspect that Thomas is French? Anyway, I agree with some things you're saying. Obviously, there's no way JJ is in the same league as Duncan or Garnett or Shaq. Period. What I meant by "franchise player" -- and perhaps I could have found a better word choice -- wasn't a guy like that, but a guy like a Paul Pierce or a Baron Davis or Ray Allen even a Michael Redd. A repeat All-Star who belongs in the upper echelon of NBA salaries. And, more importantly, a guy you can actually build a franchise around. It may not be a very good franchise, but you need a guy who can do everything. Also, I recognize that the whole Phoenix situation has apparently been very beneficial to Boris, but I still feel that having Nash has made him what he is, plain and simple.



I was not really happy with what I had read regarding Diaw, so i sent Lang this little mail which I thought would not even be read , but see lang actually reads his mails  .

I will give him justice , he acknowledged his choice of words was not perfect : 



> there's no way JJ is in the same league as Duncan or Garnett or Shaq. Period. What I meant by "franchise player" -- and perhaps I could have found a better word choice -- wasn't a guy like that, but a guy like a Paul Pierce or a Baron Davis or Ray Allen even a Michael Redd


Now , he is a bit stubborn ( who's not ?) , and keeps reapeting that :


> " Nash has made him what he is, plain and simple."


Which we all know is not true , because if nash played a very important role , you have also to give credit to the rest of the team , and to the coaching staff .


Conclusion , lang tries to defend his hometown (he's from Atlanta) , and I understand it , even if sometimes it means not being able to be totally unbiased . he noted that he suspected I was french , and he was right (well it probably sees in my writing  ) . had i not been french , i would not have cared so much about diaw , that's true .


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