# Hiring Phil Jackson has not turned out well



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I have never seen a team that rebounds as poorly as this Lakers team. I have never seen a team as bad on defense as this Lakers team. I have never seen a team put forth such little effort as this Lakers team.

Atlanta just scored 113pts. Does Phil Jackson know the meaning of the word defense? What the hell is he teaching these guys in practice? Duke's second-string could hold the Hawks under 100.

Then, the most unbelievable thing of all was that he started pressing later in the 4th Q, when this team has no idea how to, and the Hawks had been getting easy lay-ups all night long. The result of this pathetic desperate attempt by Phil...about 10 points for the Hawks late in the game.

Phil, don't resort to pressing if you can't find a way to make these guys play defense. And lets not say that these guys don't know how to play defense either. Kobe has made multiple All-Defensive teams, Smush was regarded as a defensive player coming into the league, and Kwame has been thought of as our best post defender. Not to mention Devean George, who has a reputation as a defender.

The fact is is that he is just not inspiring these guys. He has used his same stupid strategies of not calling timeouts and playing mind games with his players, and it just doesn't work with a team as young and dumb as the Lakers.

It would be different if we were 26-26 and had been playing hard. But we are losing late or big leads to teams like the Grizzlies (without a few key players) and Hawks at home. One loss like this is acceptable, but when it happens OVER and OVER again and the team doesn't learn anything from it, the coach is not doing his job correctly.

$10 million too much, IMO.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Aren't we like fifth in the league in rebounding?

Don't let one game change your outlook of the whole season. Get over it. It was a tough loss, but hopefully we can rebound from it.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Haha! Pun! ^^


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

LOL and we all thought Rudy ball was bad last year.. What's so different this year?

I remember coming into the year about 'defense' being the #1 thing they were gonna work on.. 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA~!!!!


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## essaywhuman (Aug 10, 2005)

Shadyballa8D13 said:


> Aren't we like fifth in the league in rebounding?
> 
> Don't let one game change your outlook of the whole season. Get over it. It was a tough loss, but hopefully we can rebound from it.


I agree.

Our defense has been terrible as of late, but these guys have a similar record to last year's team while playing a much tougher schedule and without as many offensive weapons. They must be doing something better, right?
Games like this happen all the time with young teams. Kobe and Devean (and Mckie) are the only ones on the team with significant playoff experience and I seriously don't think they can get worse than what they've shown lately. We got nowhere else to go but UP (hopefully).


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Even though the Kings record isn't as good as some would think with Artest, (6-5) you can take it from me. Defense is NOT based on the coach. For the longest time Adelman was tore into for not getting his team to play defense. Ron comes in, opposing teams drop almost 9 in PPG... It's a matter of effort and players. It has very very little to do with the coach.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

mang said:


> I agree.
> 
> Our defense has been terrible as of late, but these guys have a similar record to last year's team while playing a much tougher schedule and without as many offensive weapons. They must be doing something better, right?
> Games like this happen all the time with young teams. Kobe and Devean (and Mckie) are the only ones on the team with significant playoff experience and I seriously don't think they can get worse than what they've shown lately. We got nowhere else to go but UP (hopefully).


After watching last season, I know there is no truth to the saying, "There's nowhere else to go but up."


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

S-Star said:


> Even though the Kings record isn't as good as some would think with Artest, (6-5) you can take it from me. Defense is NOT based on the coach. For the longest time Adelman was tore into for not getting his team to play defense. Ron comes in, opposing teams drop almost 9 in PPG... It's a matter of effort and players. It has very very little to do with the coach.


Possibly. However, decisions such as pressing have everything to do with the coach.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Possibly. However, decisions such as pressing have everything to do with the coach.


Perhaps... But one thing I have noticed, is that when the Lakers surprise the opponent with a press, they generally come away with a violation, a bad pass, or a severely lowered shot clock. When the Lakers continuously press, the teams get layups and dunks because they know what's coming. You can't expect Phil to play the press 100% of the game, hell not even 50%. Just not enough energy (Kobe would have to press) and not enough surprise. Now one could argue that the Lakers should have only brought Phil in if they had the players to make a run at the title. I don't think Phil does too good with little talent and rookie brains...


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## essaywhuman (Aug 10, 2005)

Damian Necronamous said:


> After watching last season, I know there is no truth to the saying, "There's nowhere else to go but up."


Yeah last year was disgusting. But I honestly don't see a repeat of last year so just look on the bright side. Who knows, we might make a run like the Nuggets did when they got George Karl.


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## i_like_the_hawks (Feb 2, 2006)

is it that the lakers are that bad, or are the hawks just that good?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

i_like_the_hawks said:


> is it that the lakers are that bad, or are the hawks just that good?


:sigh: Isn't there like... An Atlanta Hawks board?


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

i_like_the_hawks said:


> is it that the lakers are that bad, or are the hawks just that good?


LoL please stop with the Hawks stuff.. your killing me man.. wow..


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## i_like_the_hawks (Feb 2, 2006)

yeah there is a hawks board but it's a ghost town. there are like three or four hawk fans who post. its basically like you go to the hawks board. post something, wait for a while and MAYBE someone will respond but it isnt likely.


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## i_like_the_hawks (Feb 2, 2006)

i gotta take my chances to get enjoyment out of being a hawks fan when i can cause i rarely get a chance.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Our defense was very much improved at the start of the season. For whatever reason, we lost all motivation. Also, our team is so thin, that every injury devastates us (aside from Kwame). When Kobe was suspended, we played terrible. Without Lamar, we were terrible. Now with a hurt Lamar and no Mihm, we are terrible. I wish Mitch could make little moves and pick up role players for free like all of the other GMs can do. Hell, maybe keep a few of the role players and stop dumping them for 2nd rounders.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Our defense was very much improved at the start of the season. For whatever reason, we lost all motivation. Also, our team is so thin, that every injury devastates us (aside from Kwame). When Kobe was suspended, we played terrible. Without Lamar, we were terrible. Now with a hurt Lamar and no Mihm, we are terrible. I wish Mitch could make little moves and pick up role players for free like all of the other GMs can do. Hell, maybe keep a few of the role players and stop dumping them for 2nd rounders.



I think that the defense and motivation can't all be put on Jacksons shoulders. But I will say when your players are never seemingly held accountable for the mistakes they make, that is when bad coaching comes into play. I mean we shot 32 three pointer attempts in this game. WTF? Its not like we were making most of them. When the game was still close, instead of setting up plays and taking it to the rack, we shot some more three point attempts. It was as if Rudy T's spirit took over and was coaching the lakers.

My beef is with control. Phil jackson used to be the kind of guy that didnt hesitate to pulls someones chain and bench em, even if there wasn't compariable talent to sub for him. Because he wanted the player to learn. This phil is much softer, and even less active than he already was.. Which says something.

I love Phil, But I personally dont think Phil is earning his money right now. We have a worse record at this point in the season than we did last season, and don't give me the "Its cause we had a softer first half", well the truth is we have been losing to the garbage of the leauge because for some reason we cant beat them, when we can beat the Nuggets, and Mavs. So all we did this first half is trade off by wining the teams we should lose to, and losing to the teams we should win to. The defense is a little better, but the last 15 games average, we gave up like 100 something points? That wont get it done.

I'm angry because the effort or lack of effort is sickening, and Phil is doing very little at least in public about it. I'd rather have a starting lineup of Sasha, Kobe, Bynum, Ronny, and DG right now. Why? I know we'd get hammared and never win a game.. But because at least those guys would make it fun to watch because they would put in EFFORT. I dont care if you give it your all and lose, but when you look like your sleeping on the court, like Brown, and Odom do most of the time, than it makes the loss that much more painful.

Phil, earn your 10 million. I dont care if you have to become a coaching Nazi like brown and make them call the play EVER time they bring it up. I don't care if you bench someone after they blow ANOTHER easy layup and give some 3rd string scrub his position. SHOW them that no one other than Kobe are good enough to secure the starting position and maybe they might put more effort into both ends of the floor.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

endora60 said:


> Shaq without Kobe: No Rings
> Kobe without Shaq: No Rings
> 
> Shaq this year: tired, weak, sluggish
> ...


Ahhh yes.

Shaq without Kobe: .650 winning percentage.
Kobe without Shaq: .450 winning percentage.

Penny without Shaq: .480 winning percentage
Wade without Shaq: .510 winning percentage

What is the consistent here? Shaq wins.

Obviously you haven't been watching Shaq recently with the "tired, weak, sluggish" commentary.

Ill forgive you that.

Good thing you are primed to get another "dominant" player in the lottery again... oh wait, you don't have a pick this year.

At least you have cap space... or wait... Brian Grant is still on the books and sitting on the PX. Bench.

Kobe has been a volume scorer on volume FGA's.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

LoyalBull said:


> Ahhh yes.
> 
> Shaq without Kobe: .650 winning percentage.
> Kobe without Shaq: .450 winning percentage.
> ...


At the end of the season, no one is going to say wow.. Did you see the better percentages Shaq's team had over the Lakers? Stupid Lakers, should have kept Shaq because look at how he could have helped us with a better percentage of wins over the next five years getting paid 30 million each.

They are going to say did you see the way Shaq's team got beat down by the Pistons? Just like the year before when he was on the Lakers? No one cares about stats, they want the rings. 

I mean come on this season the Heat have Walker, Williams, Zo, WADE, 
Posey, Haslem, Payton, Kapono, etc... The Lakers have a PG named Smush. A bust of a first rounder named Brown. A lamar Odom who doesn't know what his role should be. And only one Allstar calibar player.

The Lakers current roster makes the Heat look like an allstar dream team, but the funny part is Shaq could only lead the team to 6 games better in the loss col, than the Lakers who can barely tie their own shoes let alone defend and win ball games.

In the end it's all about the rings. Shaq got his last ring with the Lakers, and Kobe probably got his last ring with Shaq. I know Detroit lost by 2 points, and that must have REALLY pumped up the Shaq fans, but book it.. Detroit will win this year, and probably next year. And Shaq will never dominate the C spot like he did a few years back.


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## NOODLESTYLE (Jan 20, 2005)

Is it possible to trade Phil Jackson for Larry Brown? :banana:


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Yea like Larry Brown would do a heck of a lot of good.. WOW!


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

Of course Shaq won't dominate like he did a few years ago. But there is no doubt he is still the most dominant center in the NBA. The Heat are 10-10 w/out him and 23-10 w/ him, their FG% went from middle of the pack to #1. He makes others better, there is no disputing that. 

Sure they probably won't win this year, but they have something the Lakers don't, a chance. And Shaq has the MVP's to prove who was the man. Kobe hasn't shot his career avg w/out Shaq and doesn't make anyone better. 

Go to ESPN760.com and listen to the Chuck Daly link.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

Shadyballa8D13 said:


> Aren't we like fifth in the league in rebounding?
> 
> Don't let one game change your outlook of the whole season. Get over it. It was a tough loss, but hopefully we can rebound from it.


wow how many ****ing games do we have to hear this my god....dont let one game change the outlook....it "looks" like we are goin to be a lottery team...unless we could get another vet and trade odom for that vet....hmmmm last time i checked we didnt hire phil jackson to go 500...


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

i_like_the_hawks said:


> i gotta take my chances to get enjoyment out of being a hawks fan when i can cause i rarely get a chance.


with only 78 posts you rarely do get a chance


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

We just don't have good pieces to put the team al together. I told you so well before the start of the season. For all of you, who supported to bring Kwame to La La land should start licking your wounds now. The guy is terrible, and is been proven over and over again.


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## Shaolin (Aug 6, 2004)

When I was watching last nights game, I kept watching the Atlanta lay-up drill and wondering, why the hell doesn't he put that big kid into the game? Dammit Phil, Andrew's big *** can clog up the middle and challenge shots. 

I don't know WTF Jackson is doing.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Guys dont put the entire load on Phil Jacksons broad shoulders. As great as a coach the man is, he is not a miracle worker. He is being asked to coach a team full of unproven roster to a playoff spot when all focus should be on the development of this young team. 

Face it this LAL team is not playoff material, the only reason we're even a 500 team is due primarily to Kobe's brilliance offensively. The blame should be more on the LAL managment for bringing in players who are nothing but disappointment. Kwame Brown..Aaron Mckie and Laron Profit( Injuries). This team is a whole new challenge for Phil Jackson who has been lavished throughout his career with title contending potential roster. 

Bring in some key players to make this team click and if our beloved Lakers is still underachieving then start pouring in the criticism.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Brian34Cook said:


> I remember coming into the year about 'defense' being the #1 thing they were gonna work on..


Our defense has improved ALOT, and I'm pretty sure that you see that...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

LoyalBull said:


> Ahhh yes.
> 
> Shaq without Kobe: .650 winning percentage.
> Kobe without Shaq: .450 winning percentage.
> ...


Cue stealth troll.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

SoCalfan21 said:


> wow how many ****ing games do we have to hear this my god....dont let one game change the outlook....it "looks" like we are goin to be a lottery team...unless we could get another vet and trade odom for that vet....hmmmm last time i checked we didnt hire phil jackson to go 500...


Our goal for this season was to make the playoffs. We've done a good job this season. If you are hoping for anything more then you are hoping for us to overachieve.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Shadyballa8D13 said:


> Our goal for this season was to make the playoffs. We've done a good job this season. If you are hoping for anything more then you are hoping for us to overachieve.


Hell I didnt even expect them to do anything again this year but you'd be blind to see they shouldnt have at least 6 more wins.. then again.. they are .500 which is 8th in the West :laugh:


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## hollywood476 (Aug 20, 2005)

Besides usually Phil only coaches teams that could win a championships right when he gets there Chicago, Lakers of 1999-02. But now he may be switching his style up again.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Brian34Cook said:


> Hell I didnt even expect them to do anything again this year


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Shadyballa8D13 said:


>



Or better said, Realist.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Bump, might as well after a game like tonight.

Main problems with Phil tonight:

-Tonight some of the main problems was poor substitutions, with Kawme playing solid defense on Brand in the first half, then Starting Cook over brown in the 3rd, allowing Brand to not only go on a spree, but allowing brand to score virtually uncontested. 

-Hello Phil? They were chanting MVP when Brand was shooting free throws because he's the best player on the Clippers.. Defense might help slow him down a little.

-No rotation to open perimeter shooters? Vlad was able to drain a three at will. And they were not random threes, but whenever the Lakers came close to striking distance the guy nailed a three to put back some distance. Nice rotations.

-Not calling a time out at all until the Lakers go down 15 plus. Way to try and regroup and slow momentum.

-No play time for Bynum. And no im not saying he is a savior or anything. But he was a big body, and could have clogged up the paint better than Ronny would have. Both of them could have had the same stats, but its easier for a guy like Bynum with a 7 foot 6 wingspan to take up some room under the post. Might have helped keep Brand from dominating a little. 

Just a poorly coached game tonight. Even the Clippers announcements laughed when Phil got off the bench after a bad call. They said “Wow, it takes something monumental to get Phil up” and its true. He looks like a zombie half the time sitting there on the chair. Almost looking indifferent to what is going on.


uke:


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## -BasketBallBoy- (Jan 22, 2006)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Bump, might as well after a game like tonight.
> 
> Main problems with Phil tonight:
> 
> ...


All true. The return of the triangle offense has helped but it's PJ's coaching decisions itself as hurt the team. He treats the team's like men but most of them are still babies, developing their game.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Come on... Look at the Laker roster. I'm surprised Phil's done what he's done with this team. Regaurdless of the fact that he has Kobe, there is no team in the NBA that gets more open shots consistently than the Lakers (besides maybe Phoenix), and that's all Phil. But I do agree that he needed to call a timeout, whenever the crowd is that loud, and the points are racking up that quick, gotta get a timeout to calm things down.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

S-Star said:


> Come on... Look at the Laker roster. I'm surprised Phil's done what he's done with this team. Regaurdless of the fact that he has Kobe, there is no team in the NBA that gets more open shots consistently than the Lakers (besides maybe Phoenix), and that's all Phil. But I do agree that he needed to call a timeout, whenever the crowd is that loud, and the points are racking up that quick, gotta get a timeout to calm things down.


No one is suggesting the Lakers have a good roster. In fact your right, they are horrible. They are so horrible they need a coach that will baby sit them and hold them accountable for every stupid three pointer they brick, ever failed rebound they miss, and every defensive lapse they have.

What has he done with this team again? Nothing.. He is tied with Rudy’s crappy record last season. And I know someone is going to argue the whole, we had a harder first half crap, but come on, that argument goes out the window when the teams you lose to primarily are the teams you’re supposed to beat consistently. Atlanta anyone? This team is just as inconsistent as they were last season. 

Phil can’t carry the team to victory, but he can enforce the team philosophy. I’ve never in my life seen Phil this passive. You don’t let the opponent go on a 16-0 run and not call a time out. That is not a good coach no matter how many rings you got on your fingers.

Phil needs to start earning the 10 million a year, cause right now he’s an over paid has been.


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## Wilmatic2 (Oct 30, 2005)

At least he's doing better than Larry Brown.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

The team rarely plays defense consistently and are too streaky on offense to make up for that. The team's offensive execution and ball movement have been much improved lately with Kobe passing a little more, but no one out there can hit an open shot yet they consistently give up easy baskets on the other end.

Ironic, the team played well on defense to start the season but were stinking it up on offense bc no one knew the offense. Now its sort of vice versa, except they still suck at times offensively.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Bump, might as well after a game like tonight.
> 
> Main problems with Phil tonight:
> 
> -Tonight some of the main problems was poor substitutions, with Kawme playing solid defense on Brand in the first half, then Starting Cook over brown in the 3rd, allowing Brand to not only go on a spree, but allowing brand to score virtually uncontested. uke:


Kwame is brutal anyways. He's the most overated defensive player on the team. You needed SCORING and Cook brought the team something towards the end of the 1st half. Of course Cook was gonna get abused but Kwame wouldnt have made one ounce of a difference over Cook.. Most of the time Mihm was on Brand anyways from what I saw..

Still I could be wrong but stand with my Kwame wouldnt have made a difference stuff..


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## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

S-Star said:


> Come on... Look at the Laker roster. I'm surprised Phil's done what he's done with this team. Regaurdless of the fact that he has Kobe, there is no team in the NBA that gets more open shots consistently than the Lakers (besides maybe Phoenix), and that's all Phil. But I do agree that he needed to call a timeout, whenever the crowd is that loud, and the points are racking up that quick, gotta get a timeout to calm things down.


agreed.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Brian34Cook said:


> Kwame is brutal anyways. He's the most overated defensive player on the team. You needed SCORING and Cook brought the team something towards the end of the 1st half. Of course Cook was gonna get abused but Kwame wouldnt have made one ounce of a difference over Cook.. Most of the time Mihm was on Brand anyways from what I saw..
> 
> Still I could be wrong but stand with my Kwame wouldnt have made a difference stuff..



If Kobe Bryant was the only one that was going to do the majority of scoring towards the end, Cook wasn't needed out there. The second scoring option is supposed to be Lamar Odom. Rather he is or isn't, doesn't matter. Thats what his job is supposed to be. When the lakers were close, it wasn't because they were scoring machines out there. It was because the Lakers were not allowing them to have easy points in the paint.

That changed after half time. Cook and Sasha were out there to score, but basically left two vitial positions open and the Clippers exploited it because of good coaching.

Now im not trying to suggest Brown is better than Cook. I'd start cook most nights, but his build is bettre than Cooks and thats the only reason I wanted him out there. Brand was having an obvious difficult time shooting over Brown, not even so much becuase of good defense, but because of Browns size advantage.

On another note, besides that...

You would think after 3 three pointers in a row, Phil might say ok.. Someone also needs to guard Vlad to. 15 points worth of three pointers from ONE soft euro, is unacceptible.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Wilmatic2 said:


> At least he's doing better than Larry Brown.



True, but you give Phil Larrys roster and cap problems I doubt Phil could have done any better over there.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> You would think after 3 three pointers in a row, Phil might say ok.. Someone also needs to guard Vlad to. 15 points worth of three pointers from ONE soft euro, is unacceptible.


So how many times has he went off against? Because I'd like to know if it's just the Lakers.. oh wait.. It's not as if he's some scrub player..

I'm not denying that Kwame is a better defender than Cook and that Brand struggled a little but Kwame has ZERO OFFENSE (therefore like last night, most of the time, watching nobody besides Kobe out there that can shoot).. You either take your chance with Kwame trying to hold down a player and will give you no scoring most of the time or you put in a scorer and let Brand abuse him.. Same goes for most of the games.. What do you want? Kwame's defense (mind you he's talked about as he's some savior on defense) or Cook's offense (and lack of defense). I really really wish you could combine their talent and youd probably have an All-Star PF combined but this is what the team is.. Too many one dimensional players.. 

That isnt even my biggest problem last night.. Where was Odom? Where was Smush? That's the bigger problem IMHO..


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Brian34Cook said:


> So how many times has he went off against? Because I'd like to know if it's just the Lakers.. oh wait.. It's not as if he's some scrub player..


First of all, the guy is great at outside shooting. But his averages this season 9.5 points and 4.2 rebounds a game. Against us he had 19 points, 7 assists, 2 assists. That shouldn't happen, because he shouldn’t always be left wide open play after play. But poor defensive rotations (I blame coaching, he promised defense to be priority).

Or what about playing Atlanta a few nights ago, how did we stack up? Josh Smith averages 8.9 points a game, 6.1 rebounds a game, 1.5 assists per game.. Vs the lakers he had 21 points, 15 rebounds, tying his career high in rebounds and only scoring 4 less points to beat his career high in points. Or how about the struggling Joe Johnson who averages this season 19 points a game, 6.2 assists per game, 3.9 rebounds per game? Well he only had a career high of 15 assists against the Lakers, with 20 points behind it. Or how about Childress who has a season average of 9.9 points a game, 5.2 rebounds per game, 1.7 apg, playing the lakers with there new defensive minded coach he scored 21 points (Season high, congrats Josh!), and 7 rebounds. THIS IS A 17 and 36 team… We wished the lakers had scoring like that….
:rotf: 

How about the bobcats? LOL. J Jones, 31 points, 9 rebounds, 3 steals.. His averages 9.2 points a game, 4.8 rebounds per game, .84 steals per game. He almost increased all of his stats in one night by 50 percent playing the Lakers… And congrats Jones, he got a career high in scoring against the Lakers to! I guess it could be worse, the Bobcats are a good team, with an astounding 15 and 41.
:rotf: 

These are just some recent examples, there are more but I picked the two most pathetic teams this month I could find us playing. Our defense makes them look like the dream team at times.



> I'm not denying that Kwame is a better defender than Cook and that Brand struggled a little but Kwame has ZERO OFFENSE (therefore like last night, most of the time, watching nobody besides Kobe out there that can shoot).. You either take your chance with Kwame trying to hold down a player and will give you no scoring most of the time or you put in a scorer and let Brand abuse him.. Same goes for most of the games.. What do you want? Kwame's defense (mind you he's talked about as he's some savior on defense) or Cook's offense (and lack of defense). I really really wish you could combine their talent and youd probably have an All-Star PF combined but this is what the team is.. Too many one dimensional players..


If only it were that easy. Id combine them all. I still think Cook is better, but just like when Cook goes off for 5/5 with a hot hand and then Phil benches him for no reason.. When something is working, run with it?



> That isnt even my biggest problem last night.. Where was Odom? Where was Smush? That's the bigger problem IMHO..


Those were big problems no doubt. By again I go to coaching. They didn’t look motivated. Phil Jackson has the second youngest basketball team in the NBA on his hands, he has to be a bit more active. Aggressive and authoritive. He has to hold them accountable for taking stupid ill-advised three pointers instead of driving to the lane when there is a clear path. He needs to show them who is boss by not being afraid to start someone that isn’t as good over them to prove a point. 

I mean they are horrifyingly shooting three pointers to the point it kills any rhythm they were building on offensively and it often seems to result in lead swaps. I know we have a weak front court, but come on half the time the front court goes a handful of possessions before they even get a touch in the paint. That’s not how the triangle was ran during the bulls era, during the Lakers championship era, and during this scrub era. 

For anyone that thinks we couldn’t have gotten Scott to coach this team and had a similar or better record for 1/3rd the cost, is dreaming. Phil is NOT earning 10 million a year right now.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

I'm not going to get into the meat of this argument. But I will say one thing. If Vlad is on he is damn near unstoppable. If the big men chase him, the lane is wide open. If you noticed, Vlad gets ALL his shots on penetration from gaurds and kick outs, and fast breaks where he floats to the three line and his guy has two choices, to give up an uncontested layup, or to leave Vlad open for three. I'd take my chances with Vlad no matter how well he's hitting. The guy isn't consistent and that's why he isn't that good. But he's torched many a teams before. When he's on, just gotta weather the storm.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

S-Star said:


> I'm not going to get into the meat of this argument. But I will say one thing. If Vlad is on he is damn near unstoppable. If the big men chase him, the lane is wide open. If you noticed, Vlad gets ALL his shots on penetration from gaurds and kick outs, and fast breaks where he floats to the three line and his guy has two choices, to give up an uncontested layup, or to leave Vlad open for three. I'd take my chances with Vlad no matter how well he's hitting. The guy isn't consistent and that's why he isn't that good. But he's torched many a teams before. When he's on, just gotta weather the storm.



How about the other scrubs the Lakers made look like allstars? How much more weather should we do before we give Phil some blame?


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

He is simply treating the team like veterans. That is all he knows how to do - Coach veterans and *proven winners*(The Exact Opposite of The Lakers. He also has a bad habit of experimenting at wrong times.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

The One said:


> He is simply treating the team like veterans. That is all he knows how to do - Coach veterans and *proven winners*(The Exact Opposite of The Lakers.* He also has a bad habit of experimenting at wrong times*.


Im pretty sure this is the problem because its not like PJ is stupid or anything. Is it really new to anyone when Jackson makes strange substitutions or he sits indifferently on the bench while his teams are getting their asses pounded as opposed to calling a timeout? Its not anything new, he even talks about it in his book, about how he likes to tinker with lineups to see how players react to certain situations with certain players and how he hates calling timeouts when other teams go on runs because he thinks of it as bailing out his players. It just doesn't work with this team, its fine to do these little tests when the team is talented enough to make up for any mistakes, but every win and every loss counts this season and its not the right time to screw aroudn.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Drewbs said:


> Im pretty sure this is the problem because its not like PJ is stupid or anything. Is it really new to anyone when Jackson makes strange substitutions or he sits indifferently on the bench while his teams are getting their asses pounded as opposed to calling a timeout? Its not anything new, he even talks about it in his book, about how he likes to tinker with lineups to see how players react to certain situations with certain players and how he hates calling timeouts when other teams go on runs because he thinks of it as bailing out his players. It just doesn't work with this team, its fine to do these little tests when the team is talented enough to make up for any mistakes, but every win and every loss counts this season and its not the right time to screw aroudn.


You can tinker and experiment when your foundation is built around two of the best players in the game (MJ-Pipp, Shaq-Kobe). Tinker all you want, it's still a 40 win team because there isn't a whole heck of alot of talent on this roster. PJ's style of coaching will always be the same and it is geared towards an older, more experienced team with alot of talent. He's not going to transform into Larry Brown all of a sudden and start coaching on each and every possession. He's not going to start pressing from baseline to baseline either like some coaches. He's got his system and he's got a certain way of coaching and I just don't think it will result in any amount of success until we get better players on this team. Unless we get a better team, we're wasting money on PJ because he's not going to adapt his style of coaching at this stage of his career.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Tonights first time all star looking players vs the lakers goes to:

Delonte West, who averages durning the season 11.9 points a game, 4.3 assists per game, 4.3 rebounds per game, who playing the lakers left with a 19 points, 10 assists, 2 steals. Congrats West, on a career high in assists tonight!

The most impressive allstar tonight,

Ryan Gomes, who this season is averaging 3.6 points per game, 2.9 rebounds per game, 0.3 assists per game, .29 steals per game, who finished playing the lakers with an impressive 19 points, 12 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1 steal! Congrats playing the Lakers with a new Career high 19 points, and a matching 5 career high offensive rebounds!

Great defense rotations again Phil. Good to see these players are held accountable!

Look forward to the next game. :banghead:


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Tonights first time all star looking players vs the lakers goes to:
> 
> Delonte West, who averages durning the season 11.9 points a game, 4.3 assists per game, 4.3 rebounds per game, who playing the lakers left with a 19 points, 10 assists, 2 steals. Congrats West, on a career high in assists tonight!
> 
> ...


I blame the coach of how they are not *solving* the pick and roll offense because most of the time they look indecisive during the play. I do not blame Phil for the players lack of energy and initiative of D.... thought it can be becuase Phil does not put the foot down early enough. Today was completely the players fault though because Phil was on top of the caoching; it just that some players did not cme to play for the first three quarters (Smush Odom Brown ect..)


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

I bet this thread will be up every night we lose games.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Lynx said:


> I bet this thread will be up every night we lose games.



More than likely. Season is half over, and they only look worse each week.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

The One said:


> I blame the coach of how they are not *solving* the pick and roll offense because most of the time they look indecisive during the play. I do not blame Phil for the players lack of energy and initiative of D.... thought it can be becuase Phil does not put the foot down early enough. Today was completely the players fault though because Phil was on top of the caoching; it just that some players did not cme to play for the first three quarters (Smush Odom Brown ect..)



Im not going to pile the blame completely on Phil when the team was playing like poop. But the truth is, the team needs a coach that will inspire them. They don't strike me as being inspired. When they just keep taking horrible shots, namely 3 pointers when the game is so close. Or when they continue to allow layup after layup, sooner or later you wonder why Phil dosen't cut the players chain. Obviously, he yanked Brown and Odom and let Ronny come in there.. But in my opinion, that was to little to late tonight as the team fell apart in the third. Yes, Phil called a few times outs finally and didnt let Boston go on a 16-0 run, but come on.. Stu Lantz was even saying some of the biggest fundementals you learn in High School basketball defense isn't being consistantly shown on the Lakers defense. The Lakers defense is lost and without a reason most games and only seem to be able to put it together on the final minutes of the game if there is still a chance for a come back and win.

No excuse, the coaching hasn't been effective. And the defense is just as bad this year as it was last year, reguardless of what the optimist says. When you have rookies going off for career nights time in and time out on your team, there is a problem on the defensive end.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Lynx said:


> I bet this thread will be up every night we lose games.


 

.....This should be up Even when we win games because Phil seems to make one or more mistakes in almost every game (Then again,... who are we to talk about Phils coaching. He won nine rings and most of us out here has not even coached before; I mean, I was only a second assistant (Defensive) coach* *once* for a _Teen Rec league_...so what do I know  )

*That team that I coaching was pretty bad too:biggrin: : mainly because of bad recruiting form the head coach.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> Im not going to pile the blame completely on Phil when the team was playing like poop. But the truth is, the team needs a coach that will inspire them. They don't strike me as being inspired. When they just keep taking horrible shots, namely 3 pointers when the game is so close. Or when they continue to allow layup after layup, sooner or later you wonder why Phil dosen't cut the players chain. Obviously, he yanked Brown and Odom and let Ronny come in there.. But in my opinion, that was to little to late tonight as the team fell apart in the third. Yes, Phil called a few times outs finally and didnt let Boston go on a 16-0 run, but come on.. Stu Lantz was even saying some of the biggest fundementals you learn in High School basketball defense isn't being consistantly shown on the Lakers defense. The Lakers defense is lost and without a reason most games and only seem to be able to put it together on the final minutes of the game if there is still a chance for a come back and win.
> 
> No excuse, the coaching hasn't been effective. And the defense is just as bad this year as it was last year, reguardless of what the optimist says. When you have rookies going off for career nights time in and time out on your team, there is a problem on the defensive end.


Agree completely :cheers:


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> Im pretty sure this is the problem because its not like PJ is stupid or anything. Is it really new to anyone when Jackson makes strange substitutions or he sits indifferently on the bench while his teams are getting their asses pounded as opposed to calling a timeout? Its not anything new, he even talks about it in his book, about how he likes to tinker with lineups to see how players react to certain situations with certain players and how he hates calling timeouts when other teams go on runs because he thinks of it as bailing out his players. It just doesn't work with this team, its fine to do these little tests when the team is talented enough to make up for any mistakes, but every win and every loss counts this season and its not the right time to screw aroudn.


Agreed.
Just to continue what you said - The Goal for this team is to *WIN* games and His strategy is *Not* winning games and I just dont understand why hes has not realized this and rethinks his strategy. It is very easy for a coach to sit back and tinker as if he's controling a distorted chessboard, but that only can produce wins if the teams is experienced enough to handle those different situations and test that the game, or appearently the coach, may throw at them. These players are young and need to learn...before they are tested and tinkered with.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Looking at your squad from the outside,P Jax looks to be a miracle worker....You have the best player in the game in Kobe,and a decent sidekick in Odom,but other than that you guys have no talent...


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

truth said:


> Looking at your squad from the outside,P Jax looks to be a miracle worker....You have the best player in the game in Kobe,and a decent sidekick in Odom,but other than that you guys have no talent...


A nice optimistic way of viewing the season but I still think that Kobe has more to do with the success right now then Phil.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

truth said:


> Looking at your squad from the outside,P Jax looks to be a miracle worker....You have the best player in the game in Kobe,and a decent sidekick in Odom,but other than that you guys have no talent...



True, But Byron Scott doesn't even have that. And he gets paid a 3rd of what Jackson makes.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

The One said:


> A nice optimistic way of viewing the season but I still think that Kobe has more to do with the success right now then Phil.


At least Phil has the common sense to realise this is the Kobe show and let him star night in and night out...As a Knick fan,you should NOT take that for granted..larry brown insists on putting square pegs in round holes and its an utter disaster.


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