# LOL @ McGrady leaving to have his own team



## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

Well well well, how ironic. Didnt Tmac leave the raptors?? So he could shine and be the man? 

Well suck it up Tmac, he could have had the easy life playing along side vince. He wanted to do it all, have all the focus. and i cant blame orlando fans for pointing the finger at him.

I think darrel armstrong was a big reason this team is not doing well. He played with his heart and inspired his team mates to keep motivated and play hard. This guy was the energy and heart behind the team. 

Not to mention the only guy on that squad that could actually run the point. Now that hes gone, i think the magic are finally realising how much "intangiables" are valuable. Its not all about stats people.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

No, as has been said repeatedly, that's *not* why he left the Raptors. He never used that as a reason, and he was fully expecting to have a top-five player (either Duncan or Hill) on the same team, so he *knew* he wasn't going to be the man, at least at first.

So, constantly criticizing him for a made-up point is hardly compelling.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Why do Raptors fans feel like McGrady left to have his own team*

That was never the case. I never understood why all of you guys felt that way?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Thats the way it looked to us in Canada. The guy told us he would stay so we didnt try to trade him, and then he left us for the Magic. There was plenty of talk about him being in Vinces shadow and him wanting his own spotlight. Raptor fans just find it amusing and ironic on how hes leading his team to the bottom of the barrel right now.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

What R-Star said was right on the money. The fact is he could have been playing with Vince the past 3 years and helping lead the Raptors to the finals, and instead the East is garbage because of one man shows like the Raptors, Magic and Celtics instead of great TEAMS like the Mavs and Lakers. With Vince & T-Mac we could have challenged and even the championship at least once. And now T-Mac is leading the Magic nowhere while at least Vince's team is winning some games.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

tell us non-raptor fans, why did he leave TOR if not to have his own team?


----------



## g_prince_4_lyfe (Sep 10, 2003)

Again, it's the ego! T-Mac will NEVER admit to it, Carter knows it, but T-Mac just didn't wanna be in Carter's shadow, PERIOD!! Think about it! Do you think T-Mac would've had his own shoes if he was still alongside Vince? Well, it depends on how much T-Mac would do if he was here still! Of course this team would've been able to challenge for the east championship! But think about this: even IF T-Mac stayed on the team, his ego would've gotten the best of him sooner or later! I mean, he'd wanna take more shots than Carter, he'd wanna be the leading scorer, and he'd wanna do it all instead of eating Carter's dust!! To be honest, I'm GLAD T-Mac left and went to the Magic so that Carter could become the all-star that he is today and see T-Mac sitting at his 1-12 record so far and talking about retiring! WHAT A JOKE!!!!:laugh: :laugh:


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>g_prince_4_lyfe</b>!
> Again, it's the ego! T-Mac will NEVER admit to it, Carter knows it, but T-Mac just didn't wanna be in Carter's shadow, PERIOD!! Think about it! Do you think T-Mac would've had his own shoes if he was still alongside Vince? Well, it depends on how much T-Mac would do if he was here still! Of course this team would've been able to challenge for the east championship! But think about this: even IF T-Mac stayed on the team, his ego would've gotten the best of him sooner or later! I mean, he'd wanna take more shots than Carter, he'd wanna be the leading scorer, and he'd wanna do it all instead of eating Carter's dust!! To be honest, I'm GLAD T-Mac left and went to the Magic so that Carter could become the all-star that he is today and see T-Mac sitting at his 1-12 record so far and talking about retiring! WHAT A JOKE!!!!:laugh: :laugh:


i woudn't take it that far. 

Carter doesn't mind passing it out to his teammates. Overall, what separates Carter and TMac is that Carter has more willingness to win no matter what. he'd rather have 20 pts and 10 asts rather than 30 pts and 3 asts.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> i woudn't take it that far.
> ...


Thats a little unfair dont you think. You are saying that McGrady cares about nothing but scoring but I think that McGrady would rather the same as well. He can only have so many assists if the team isnt putting the ball in the basket and blame like that is put on him when in actuality its not really all his fault. Also I dont think thats the case with Carter either. I think at times he settles for assists and doesnt score when the team needs him to.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

if McGrady did have the willingness to win, he wouldn't care about who gets the spotlight and should have stayed in TOR whatsoever. you can't argue that the raps woudln't be an elite team if it had McGrady and Carter now. overall, McGrady left TOR because he wanted his spotlight. if he wanted to win, he woudl've stayed in TOR.

however, i agree that Carter is at times a little too unselfish. many times have i yelled at Carter to take the shot himself, rather than deferring to his teammates. moreso now since the rest of the team outside of Bosh and VC are pure crap.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> if McGrady did have the willingness to win, he wouldn't care about who gets the spotlight and should have stayed in TOR whatsoever. you can't argue that the raps woudln't be an elite team if it had McGrady and Carter now. overall, McGrady left TOR because he wanted his spotlight. if he wanted to win, he woudl've stayed in TOR.
> 
> however, i agree that Carter is at times a little too unselfish. many times have i yelled at Carter to take the shot himself, rather than deferring to his teammates. moreso now since the rest of the team outside of Bosh and VC are pure crap.


I dont understand. McGrady went to Orlando assuming that a Healthy Grant Hill and or Tim Duncan would be there, so where do you Raptor fans get this from?


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Tracy can pucker up and kiss the Raptor's (mascot) :kissmy:


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont understand. McGrady went to Orlando assuming that a Healthy Grant Hill and or Tim Duncan would be there, so where do you Raptor fans get this from?


everyone knew Grant Hill had a career ending injury bofore he went to ORL and SA was assured to keep TD, so there were no guarantees.

the best guarantee he'd have at success was to stay in TOR, where a healthy VC was there for sure.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont understand. McGrady went to Orlando assuming that a Healthy Grant Hill and or Tim Duncan would be there, so where do you Raptor fans get this from?


I know the main reason why T-Mac left was because he wanted to be closer to home, but you have to remember a couple of things, a) the keyword is <b>assuming</b>, he assumed that a healthy Grant Hill or Tim Duncan would be in Orlando, while Vince Carter was already in Toronto, and b) while Vince wasn't as good as Hill or Duncan then, the Raptors still had the better supporting cast. So he basically had two options - playing in Orlando with a supposedly healthy Grant Hill and no supporting cast except for a rookie and a decent point guard, or playing in Toronto with Vince Carter and a much better supporting cast. He went to Orlando because he's from there. I understand that and I probably would have done the same, especially considering he would have played alongside a top-5 player in the game at that time in Grant Hill. But in hindsight obviously the much better choice would be to stay in Toronto, and even then, his best chance at winning was in Toronto. All you have to do is look at the records, Toronto won 47 games without T-Mac and Orlando won 43 games without Hill.


----------



## MrTasty (Jul 5, 2003)

maybe it had something to do with Butch Carter planting him on the bench all the time? just a suggestion.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MrTasty</b>!
> maybe it had something to do with Butch Carter planting him on the bench all the time? just a suggestion.


You mean the other coach... his name escapes me right now... but anyway Butch gave him good minutes, he scored 15 points a game under Butch. It was the coach before him that he had beef with.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MrTasty</b>!
> maybe it had something to do with Butch Carter planting him on the bench all the time? just a suggestion.


i don't buy that.

besides, TMac knew Lenny was gonna be the coach before signing with ORL.


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> No, as has been said repeatedly, that's *not* why he left the Raptors. He never used that as a reason, and he was fully expecting to have a top-five player (either Duncan or Hill) on the same team, so he *knew* he wasn't going to be the man, at least at first.
> 
> So, constantly criticizing him for a made-up point is hardly compelling.


lol you have no clue about Tmac, you probably didn't know he existed until he was on the Magic.

to add to the thread, it was so bitter sweet to see Twack in the playoff's last year. First game they get schooled and what does he say at the end of the game after someone takes a shot at the end of the game "i need the ball at the end of the game, this is my team, i take the big shots" and then next game his team mates are no where to be seen and it's all Twack all game and what does he say after they lose again "where are my team mates, i can't do everything myself". And that was in a matter of days, back to back games, he's such a hypocrite.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> 
> 
> lol you have no clue about Tmac, you probably didn't know he existed until he was on the Magic.
> ...


Why would you assume he knows nothing about TMAC?? I think thats a little rude


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Why would you assume he knows nothing about TMAC?? I think thats a little rude


The same reason he assume's he know's why Twack left Toronto.

Don't be a fool though, especially not here where everyone already knows the facts because it'll just make you look stupid.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> 
> 
> The same reason he assume's he know's why Twack left Toronto.
> ...


It wont make me look stupid anything because I was asking a question. It behooves me how anyone would know something as fact, when not one member on this board personally sat down and talked with him to find out why no matter what "YOU" supposedly know. How do you know Minstrel doesnt know? He could be a writer for all you know. I think you are the one thats looking foolish because YOU dont know the facts.


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

"No, as has been said repeatedly, that's not why he left the Raptors."

because of this stupid comment. yeah he's a writer and writer's have about as much a clue as the maid in the move "clue". look BEEZ just leave because you either can't read or can't comprehend what everyone else is posting so you need to fix your problem.

example:
"It behooves me how anyone would know something as fact, when not one member on this board personally sat down and talked with him to find out why no matter what "YOU" supposedly know."

It bewilders me how anyone would believe Twack on the subject of why he left Toronto. It also bewilders me how anyone wouldn't believe the fans who are always honest on the subject of why he left Toronto.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> "No, as has been said repeatedly, that's not why he left the Raptors."
> 
> because of this stupid comment. yeah he's a writer and writer's have about as much a clue as the maid in the move "clue". look BEEZ just leave because you either can't read or can't comprehend what everyone else is posting so you need to fix your problem.
> ...


Once again, you have no basis on calling his comment STUPID. I never said he was, you read, I said you dont know if he was or wasnt. I dont have to leave nothing. I can post freely as I want to. Now your last statement shows your bitterness on the subject of Tracy McGrady. Throughout the course of this dialogue you have called him names and such and to me its shown to be somewhat childish. Thats just like me and you work at the same job, you quite for your own reasons but according to what you are implying I should go by the heresay and gossip of your previous co-workers as fact without asking you. Ok


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

yup your right, everything professional athletes tell the media is true and i'm wrong because you can read. I'm also bitter and continue to call him Twack because he is such a great young man who is not greedy at all and oh... i'm not a sarcastic person at all.

man the world is a beautiful place, there are no guns, people don't die until they are old and an eastern confrence team does stand a chance against a western confrence team in the finals.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> yup your right, everything professional athletes tell the media is true and i'm wrong because you can read. I'm also bitter and continue to call him Twack because he is such a great young man who is not greedy at all and oh... i'm not a sarcastic person at all.
> 
> man the world is a beautiful place, there are no guns, people don't die until they are old and an eastern confrence team does stand a chance against a western confrence team in the finals.


Good point


----------



## Goku (Aug 28, 2003)

I just wanted to add that Tmac has as big an ego as Randy Moss/Kesawn Johnson/Whoever else sucks cuz of their attitude/


----------



## MrTasty (Jul 5, 2003)

Maybe he should quit basketball to become a wide receiver


----------



## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> tell us non-raptor fans, why did he leave TOR if not to have his own team?


Lets see.. He has all his friends and family just 25-30 minutes out side of Orlando.. If you wouldn't play for the city you grew up in or near...instead of a freezing cold canada...


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Lets see.. He has all his friends and family just 25-30 minutes out side of Orlando.. If you wouldn't play for the city you grew up in or near...instead of a freezing cold canada...


:stevenash:


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> :stevenash:


:internationalplayers:


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> 
> 
> lol you have no clue about Tmac, you probably didn't know he existed until he was on the Magic.


Actually, he was someone I've followed ever since he was drafted.

Just because you're an incredibly bitter, childish Toronto Raptors fan is no reason to get angry at me.

His leaving had nothing to do with Carter's "shadow." McGrady expected to be playing with a *better* player, either Grant Hill or Tim Duncan. Either one of those players, at the time, was superior to Carter. (And no, nobody at the time thought Hill's injury was career-threatening...otherwise he wouldn't have received a huge deal.)

So, right...to get out of one player's shadow, he went to a team where he planned to play with someone who'd create an even *larger* shadow.

McGrady left Toronto because he didn't like Toronto, he wanted to play near home, he had bad feelings towards the franchise for Darrell Walker burying him on the bench and for Butch Carter's overbearing mentality and because he wanted a bigger contract than the Raptors wanted to pay an unproven McGrady.

Blindly villify McGrady all you want, make up reasons as to why he left, but the above are the real factors.

Incidentally, I didn't post this post here. BEEZ decided to copy it here, from the NBA board, because *he* wanted to discuss it with you folks. So don't think I came here to start an argument with Raptor fans. However, I'll defend my post from such misinformed, juvenile posts as the one I quoted and responded to.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, he was someone I've followed ever since he was drafted.
> ...


This is a great post right here by a great poster, and he parlayed my feelings to a T


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

Sure you followed him since he was drafted, you followed him for two years while he sat at the end of the Raptors bench. No need to lie man it's not like it matters what anyone thinks of you on a internet forum.

I don't know why you came here and made up some half assed attempt at trying to back up a retarded theory that makes no sense but man i'm gonna give you a reality check.

First Tim Duncan was never going to the Magic and if you for one second believed that then i'm sorry but you probably think OJ never murdered anyone.

Second Grant Hill was no where near as good as Carter, EVER, and if you think he was then you probably believe Clinton never got his .... (censored you naughty boy!)

Third don't come in here and try and tell the fans who were closest to the ordeal about the "real factors" because you just look stupid. 

You know the only problem with this board is just how gullible people are, it's sad the way people will believe anything the media tells them. BTW is that pippen in your avatar? Isn't he GAY?


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

this thread is officially going somewhere :uhoh:


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> 
> You know the only problem with this board is just how gullible people are, it's sad the way people will believe anything the media tells them. BTW is that pippen in your avatar? Isn't he GAY?


I guess if you don't actually know enough to contribute to the discussion, speculating on the sexuality of athletes is all you have to talk about. You do have my sympathies. 

If an intelligent Raptors fan (which I imagine would be more the norm) wants to dispute my previous post, I'd be interested. Being attacked by the resident third-grade homer only makes me believe I must be on the right track. 

Unless someone with more sense and maturity argues what I said, I can honestly say that I'm done with the thread.

Have a great season, Raptors fans. Vince Carter is a special player to watch. Hopefully, the team success will turn around.


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

gotta love the hypocrites who calls you names while running away with their tail between their legs.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> gotta love the hypocrites who calls you names while running away with their tail between their legs.


How is he a hypocrite. You go around calling names and it seems you were called on it yet you go and speak on the sexuality of player. Quite disturbing myself. That being said When McGrady left. Grant Hill still was a better all around player than Vince Carter was. Thats not a lie that was fact. Now and then are 2 different situations but they were. On top of that Orlando had a very strong chance of getting Tim Duncan and he backed out at the last minute. SO maybe you should get your facts straight?


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

Damn you see, this is the problem with this forum. Too many people don't know how to read... between the lines, it's like you have to spell it out for them.


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Rawker man. These are moderators who know what their saying when they post man... Theres no way you can counter them because their just going to keep retaliating at you with quality posts after quality posts...


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Lets see.. He has all his friends and family just 25-30 minutes out side of Orlando.. If you wouldn't play for the city you grew up in or near...instead of a freezing cold canada...


Right on, except for that last comment. I'm making a reasonable guess that you've never been to Toronto, so don't say idiotic things like that.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> McGrady left Toronto because he didn't like Toronto, he wanted to play near home, he had bad feelings towards the franchise for Darrell Walker burying him on the bench and for Butch Carter's overbearing mentality and because he wanted a bigger contract than the Raptors wanted to pay an unproven McGrady.


That's exactly why and that's the only reason why really. I think he would have gone to Orlando even if they didn't try to bring in Hill, because as I said, the supporting cast other than Hill was worse than Toronto's supporting cast other than Carter. And your last comment is wrong. The Magic offered him less money than the Raptors, but since the Raptors did a sign-and-trade, he got the most money too. The Raptors were offering him something like $88 million and the Magic were giving him $67 million.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Honestly I don't know why some people won't let this go.

The Raptors are better than the Magic, everyone knows... just get over the T-Mac stuff already!


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

show me one original thought in their posts matt, something that hasn't been drilled into their heads.

i could care less if they are mods of a forum, let alone this forum, that doesn't mean they have any clue what they are talking about. all that means is they spend too much time humming around these forums and have no real friends.

it's funny how these guys can read through that "pippen is gay" article but can't read through the countless "why twack left toronto" articles.

whatever though, if they can't handle a little hostility with their discussion then maybe they aren't the true NBA fans they claim to be. if these guys think i'm bad then they would be in the fetal position hugging their moms leg on sundays in any nfl forum.

BTW here's an example of just how stupid some news articles are: 

"Orlando had a very strong chance of getting Tim Duncan and he backed out at the last minute."

the part they didn't release to the media: he only gave the thought of going to Orlando one minute.


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Your right. But still... these moderators think of anything they can to reply to any post.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> ... just get over the T-Mac stuff already!


:yes:


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> show me one original thought in their posts matt, something that hasn't been drilled into their heads.
> 
> i could care less if they are mods of a forum, let alone this forum, that doesn't mean they have any clue what they are talking about. all that means is they spend too much time humming around these forums and have no real friends.
> ...


I welcome and appreciate the hostility personally.  I am a true fan and student of this game, I have posted the way I have for a reason. You know whats funny. Rawker you seem to have the inside track and scoop on everything Toronto and thats fine, I have no problem with that. Maybe you do, maybe you dont. Now you are the authority on where Tim Duncan was or wasnt going. I just find it hard to understand while we should as you said countless times and eloquently put it"Third don't come in here and try and tell the fans who were closest to the ordeal about the "real factors" because you just look stupid. " But in all of that, you failed to address the fact that, you dont know for a fact what Tim Duncan was and or wasnt going to do and he was and is a better player than Vince Cartet and no one forcasted that Hill who was at the time a better player than Carter would have become the injury riddled player that he is today. Its easy to siphon through your posts and see that it "could" be considered that you are "fanatical" about your team the Raptors, but at the same time who are YOU to say what a player was or wasnt going to being that, that was the other posters fav team?


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Your right. But still... these moderators think of anything they can to reply to any post.


What you didnt know that MATT:grinning:


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> 
> Second Grant Hill was no where near as good as Carter, EVER, and if you think he was then you probably believe Clinton never got his .... (censored you naughty boy!)


grant hill in his prime was 10 times better than carter will EVER be. hill actually played D and could score as good as carter.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> And your last comment is wrong. The Magic offered him less money than the Raptors, but since the Raptors did a sign-and-trade, he got the most money too. The Raptors were offering him something like $88 million and the Magic were giving him $67 million.


I didn't say the Magic offered him more as a free agent. I said that McGrady wanted a bigger contract than Toronto was willing to pay him (a max deal, I believe). The Magic *was* willing to pay that, so the Raptors signed him to the max deal for the Magic and sent him to Orlando.

As far as supporting casts beyond Hill...the Magic were also hoping to add another talented player, like Eddie Jones (who was still considered valuable then). They had enough cap room for two max deals and a smaller deal. Basically, there was a lot of hopefulness around that summer for the Magic that didn't really materialize (their wet dream being Duncan and Hill signing non-max deals just to form a threesome with McGrady...that was quite a hope).

Money and location were basically the two big factors for McGrady's move. Discontent with Darrell Walker and Butch Carter were secondary reasons.


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> 
> 
> grant hill in his prime was 10 times better than carter *will EVER be.*hill actually played D and could score as good as carter.


How can you say that. When Vince retires, then talk crap about him.


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I welcome and appreciate the hostility personally.  I am a true fan and student of this game, I have posted the way I have for a reason. You know whats funny. Rawker you seem to have the inside track and scoop on everything Toronto and thats fine, I have no problem with that. Maybe you do, maybe you dont. Now you are the authority on where Tim Duncan was or wasnt going. I just find it hard to understand while we should as you said countless times and eloquently put it"Third don't come in here and try and tell the fans who were closest to the ordeal about the "real factors" because you just look stupid. " But in all of that, you failed to address the fact that, you dont know for a fact what Tim Duncan was and or wasnt going to do and he was and is a better player than Vince Cartet and no one forcasted that Hill who was at the time a better player than Carter would have become the injury riddled player that he is today. Its easy to siphon through your posts and see that it "could" be considered that you are "fanatical" about your team the Raptors, but at the same time who are YOU to say what a player was or wasnt going to being that, that was the other posters fav team?


What "facts" have you provided? Nothing. Everything you have posted has either been rumors, hear-say, or second hand information. So when you argue with me and make comments like the ones above then your proving how much of a hypocrite you are. You say your a student of the game and a fan, yet you have no orininal thoughts or opinions on the game or it's players. your like a search engine, i type in grant hill and i get the same ish rehashed over and over. 

"grant hill in his prime was 10 times better than carter will EVER be. hill actually played D and could score as good as carter." - texan

this board is so full of polution it's not even funny. 

grant hill in his prime could shoot better then carter, nope
grant hill in his prime could penetrate better then carter, nope
grant hill in his prime could shoot 3's better then carter, nope
grant hill in his prime could finish better then carter, nope
grant hill in his prime could pass better then carter, nope 
grant hill in his prime could play better D then carter, nope

it's also comments like this one by Minstrel "Eddie Jones (who was still considered valuable then)" that lead me to believe that alot of people on this forum have no clue. Basically he's saying Eddie Jones is not a valuable player anymore and to me that just shows how little this person knows about Eddie Jones.

people can claim to be fans of the NBA, or students of the game, but when i read alot of this crap some of ya'll are just All Star fanboys.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> 
> 
> What "facts" have you provided? Nothing. Everything you have posted has either been rumors, hear-say, or second hand information. So when you argue with me and make comments like the ones above then your proving how much of a hypocrite you are. You say your a student of the game and a fan, yet you have no orininal thoughts or opinions on the game or it's players. your like a search engine, i type in grant hill and i get the same ish rehashed over and over.
> ...


Your whole post is contradictory. Where are YOUR FACTS?

Also if you think the Eddie Jones from the year he received that huge contract is the same Eddie Jones today, you are sadly mistaken. And once again, you go with the name calling instead of providing solid info. Just the same everything I said as you say is heresay. I agree. Why is your info is "*WRITTEN IN STONE*


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

i'm providing opinion's, facts are you schtick. 

but i can provide facts as to who is the better player carter or hill, check out www.nba.com and their player profiles, all their stats are listed.

i can provide facts as to why Eddie Jones is still valuable via the same method.

am i contradicting in my previous post? nope because i'm not the one claiming to have factual information such as yourself, who has proven so far to be: a contradicting hypocritical liar.

you should leave *BEEZ*, i mean you don't contribute anything to the thread, your here because your sour, and your riding my coat ta*i*l. tho*s*e are all tell t*a*le signs of a *troll* in action.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> i'm providing opinion's, facts are you schtick.
> 
> but i can provide facts as to who is the better player carter or hill, check out www.nba.com and their player profiles, all their stats are listed.
> ...


NOT at all. Go back and tell me when I said something I said was fact. SO now players are based off of whose better just by stats? I see. What are the facts that Eddie Jones is the same player? Yes I do feel that you were contradicting your posts. Not once did I say again I had factual info. I am not going anywhere, I am not sour, we are having a discussion that you seem to not be able to handle. Riding your coattail I am not. I see once again you resort to childish name calling and that is honestly your last time calling me a name. I havent disrespected you or called you a name and have kept this diatrabe strictly about basketball. I dont have to leave, I wont leave. So find something else to say.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> i'm providing opinion's, facts are you schtick.
> 
> but i can provide facts as to who is the better player carter or hill, check out www.nba.com and their player profiles, all their stats are listed.
> ...



Also if you want to go by stats. Carter outscored Hill 2 out of they're first 3 seasons, blocked more shots and shot the 3 better. Grant Hill was a better Rebounder, Assist man, FG% shooter, stole the ball at a better rate. SO what are you saying? And if you go by careers hill has had the better career so far, even with all the Injuries.


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

"NOT at all. Go back and tell me when I said something I said was fact. "

and

"Grant Hill still was a better all around player than Vince Carter was. Thats not a lie that was fact."

and

" Not once did I say again I had factual info."

and

"I see once again you resort to childish name calling and that is honestly your last time calling me a name."

there is * FACTUAL* proof that you *BEEZ* are a hypocrite (I JUST CALLED YOU A NAME BEEZ). just leave man, your here trying to start ish and your act is getting tired.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> "NOT at all. Go back and tell me when I said something I said was fact. "
> 
> and
> ...


Thanks that was one thing, so for that yes I was a hypocrite because I didnt recall saying it. But it also is not hypocritcal when I supplied you proof that YOU suggested. I still see you have chosen to not answer any of the relevant questions pertaining to this entire thread. How about this, I'm not going to pull a Power play on you, but stop telling me to leave because I wont so you are wasting your time to keep on typing it. Also I see you trying to egg me on and thats ok, even though you are violating site policy. Its understandable. I'm waiting on your response to my post. This last post doesnt count. It was useless


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

hey Bud, is it like this when we argue? 













































PS: Marquis Daniels sucks


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

everything you have posted on this forum so far has been useless which is why i'm telling you to leave. your spamming this forum with useless posts, your riding my coat tail, and your threatening me with violating site policy?  

i've proven 1/3rd of this statement: "(your) a contradicting hypocritical liar " so what makes you think i can't prove the other 2/3rds? I don't lie like yourself, and i can backup what i say.


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

are you talking to me trick  

















































whatever


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> everything you have posted on this forum so far has been useless which is why i'm telling you to leave. your spamming this forum with useless posts, your riding my coat tail, and your threatening me with violating site policy?
> 
> i've proven 1/3rd of this statement: "(your) a contradicting hypocritical liar " so what makes you think i can't prove the other 2/3rds? I don't lie like yourself, and i can backup what i say.


I've been waiting, you havent done it. I admitted where I was wrong. My post are useless as you say but yet you have not proven me wrong have you. YOU suggested me to do something I did what YOU said and I proved you wrong. Just debunk what I am saying and I'll end with this thread. Basically I have I am just waiting to see what you have to say. Spamming I am not. Please dont try to tell me what is and what isnt around here. I have been here since the sites inception so nope. You act as if you are the only one that matters on this board and I have replied to other posters posts in this thread. What have I ever said was a lie? I made a mistake on something I said I said but never lied. Sorry. I am still waiting for you to prove me wrong


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

this is kinda interesting

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> this is kinda interesting
> 
> :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


I agree


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

it's not even interesting anymore  <strike> this guy has a reading comprehension problem and can't keep up. </strike>(This is UNACCEPTABLE, as it attacks another poster.) :nonono:


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> it's not even interesting anymore  this guy has a reading comprehension problem and can't keep up.


I appreciate once again your tasteless name calling. Instead of showing your insight and knowledge you resorted to name calling. Thank you I appreciate it. You obviously didnt/dont have anything to back up any of your statements so this is where we are. Fine with me.

Can any other Raptor fans can back up what RAWKER was saying?


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't say the Magic offered him more as a free agent. I said that McGrady wanted a bigger contract than Toronto was willing to pay him (a max deal, I believe). The Magic *was* willing to pay that, so the Raptors signed him to the max deal for the Magic and sent him to Orlando.
> ...


You just proved I was right. You said that McGrady wanted a bigger conract than what Toronto was offering, while Toronto was giving him the most money. What are you trying to say? T-Mac wanted to go to Orlando AND get all the money, so he got the Raptors to do a sign-and-trade. If it was only about money he would have stayed in Toronto with the better supporting cast. Instead he went to Orlando because that's where he's from, and he got the most money too.

Fact is that nobody was offering him as much money as the Raptors were.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> You just proved I was right. You said that McGrady wanted a bigger conract than what Toronto was offering, while Toronto was giving him the most money. What are you trying to say? T-Mac wanted to go to Orlando AND get all the money, so he got the Raptors to do a sign-and-trade. If it was only about money he would have stayed in Toronto with the better supporting cast. Instead he went to Orlando because that's where he's from, and he got the most money too.
> ...


Now this is what I been looking for. A real Raptors fan/poster to put thought into what they were saying. Great post Bud_Boy


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Can any other Raptor fans can back up what RAWKER was saying?


I don't think any other Raptors fans really agree with what he's saying... not only the namecalling, but the fact that most of us know why he left (to play near home) because a) he's said it himself, b) he would have played with a player better than Vince at the time, and c) it's the only reason that makes sense anyway.

Like I said before, I don't know why we're arguing this. Get over it and think about tonight's win against Atlanta.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think any other Raptors fans really agree with what he's saying... not only the namecalling, but the fact that most of us know why he left (to play near home) because a) he's said it himself, b) he would have played with a player better than Vince at the time, and c) it's the only reason that makes sense anyway.
> ...


Do you know Vince Carter has always had not so great games against Stephen Jackson?


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you know Vince Carter has always had not so great games against Stephen Jackson?


It's actually not Jax, it's his former teammate Bruce Bowen. He's been the #1 Healthy Vince stopper all his career.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> It's actually not Jax, it's his former teammate Bruce Bowen. He's been the #1 Healthy Vince stopper all his career.


No, they said Jax because they brought up when he was a Net.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> No, they said Jax because they brought up when he was a Net.


Who said that? Anyway the real Raptors killer on the Hawks is Jason Terry. I love the guy, but he always destroys my Raps! I even went to a Raptors-Hawks game for my birthday and he still killed us!!!

Great player though. And Bosh should take care of Shareef. Yup, you read right.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Who said that? Anyway the real Raptors killer on the Hawks is Jason Terry. I love the guy, but he always destroys my Raps! I even went to a Raptors-Hawks game for my birthday and he still killed us!!!
> ...


Thats bold. and Ima check you on that as far as Bosh taking care of Shareef. And it was on CSN here in the states its a local sports station In Philadelphia. I think it was Dei Lynam


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I appreciate once again your tasteless name calling. Instead of showing your insight and knowledge you resorted to name calling. Thank you I appreciate it. You obviously didnt/dont have anything to back up any of your statements so this is where we are. Fine with me.
> ...


What name did i call you in my last post? 

like i said you have a reading comprehension problem.

I have backed up plenty of my points while you haven't, yet you want me to explain more of my points?


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> 
> 
> What name did i call you in my last post?
> ...


NOt a name calling thing but you said I have a reading comprehension problem when I dont. But I dont want you to have to explain yourself you have done more than enough.


----------



## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Can any other Raptor fans can back up what RAWKER was saying?


Since you claim to NOT have a reading comprehension problem, what was i saying?


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> 
> 
> Since you claim to NOT have a reading comprehension problem, what was i saying?


ABSOLUTELY NOTHING


----------



## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> ABSOLUTELY NOTHING












Tracy McBaby


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!


That has to be the most funniest picture I have ever seen


----------



## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> That has to be the most funniest picture I have ever seen



i know  lol


----------



## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:laugh:


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats bold. and Ima check you on that as far as Bosh taking care of Shareef. And it was on CSN here in the states its a local sports station In Philadelphia. I think it was Dei Lynam


As far as Bosh-Reef goes, Shareef was killing us through 4 & a half quarters, but Bosh was just great down the stretch, and Reef choked big time at the end of the 4th and OT.

So I went too far by saying that Bosh was gonna take care of him, but he most definately held his own and helped get his team the win.


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> That has to be the most funniest picture I have ever seen


OMG, I posted this in the Orlando forum a couple of days ago as Dee Bo and ThE MaGiC flame me for posting it.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> You just proved I was right. You said that McGrady wanted a bigger conract than what Toronto was offering, while Toronto was giving him the most money. What are you trying to say?


No, I'm saying Toronto was *not* offering what McGrady wanted, which is a max contract. The only reason Toronto signed him to a max deal was because the Magic were going to be paying it, and willing to.

Basically, a sign-and-trade was arranged so that the Magic could give McGrady what he wanted, which was more than Toronto was willing to give him. Toronto agreed to it so that they'd get something back, even though it meant allowing another team to top their offer.

A final point, about money. Toronto (and all of Canada, I believe) has much higher income tax than anywhere in the US. Simultaneously, Orlando has *no* state income tax. That's a tax savings of millions of dollars, making every dollar worth more in Orlando (since less of every dollar was taken in taxes).

So, McGrady was able to earn a lot more in Orlando, with the sign-and-trade, then he could in Toronto...both due to the Magic's willingness to max him out and due to the huge difference in income tax.

Playing near his home was undoubtedly a major factor, too.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> No, I'm saying Toronto was *not* offering what McGrady wanted, which is a max contract. The only reason Toronto signed him to a max deal was because the Magic were going to be paying it, and willing to.


Well then in that case you're just flat out wrong. Toronto was offering him $88 miilion, like I already stated. Orlando? $67 million. And both in US dollars. Toronto DID offer him a MAX contract, Orlando didn't. I live in Toronto and I know a hell of a lot more about this situation than you do in California.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> No, as has been said repeatedly, that's *not* why he left the Raptors. He never used that as a reason, and he was fully expecting to have a top-five player (either Duncan or Hill) on the same team, so he *knew* he wasn't going to be the man, at least at first.
> 
> So, constantly criticizing him for a made-up point is hardly compelling.


Well said, as Grant Hill was the established ALL-STAR, so indeed TMac knew that. Somehow, this supposed reason for his SIGN and Trade is invalid.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> OMG, I posted this in the Orlando forum a couple of days ago as Dee Bo and ThE MaGiC flame me for posting it.


Well, you see, it is <b>flaming</b> when you go to the Magic forum to use it to taunt their fans. Can you understand that point now that I have explained why the Magic fans would be upset with that picture(which is amusing)?


----------



## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> OMG, I posted this in the Orlando forum a couple of days ago as Dee Bo and ThE MaGiC flame me for posting it.



it's funny when i do it tho.. hehe


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> it's funny when i do it tho.. hehe


It is amusing, when you post it here - not on the Magic forum - as that would be "taunting".


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> It is amusing, when you post it here - not on the Magic forum - as that would be "taunting".


Obviously


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> Obviously


IF it was obvious, why would you have posted it on the Magic forum, knowing you were breaking the site rules by "taunting" a fan base???


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> IF it was obvious, why would you have posted it on the Magic forum, knowing you were breaking the site rules by "taunting" a fan base???


don't bother with him. he's hopeless.


----------



## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> IF it was obvious, why would you have posted it on the Magic forum, knowing you were breaking the site rules by "taunting" a fan base???


Because i didn't know I was breaking the site rules at the time I said that and when I said obviously, it was after I knew I was breaking the rules.


----------

