# Say, "Hello" to Raymond Felton and Marvin Williams



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

These two will definitely declare now that the Tar Heels have won the title. I wouldn't be surprised if McCants and May declare as well. Could you imagine if UNC loses Jawad and Marvin Williams, Jackie Manuel, Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants, Sean May? 

I think May will stay, but the rest will leave.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I expect them all to leave, and they should.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I don't see what the big deal is about Marvin Williams


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> I don't see what the big deal is about Marvin Williams



Yeah, I don't see anything too impressive about his game. I just know that scouts love him and are predicting him as a top pick. It must be the fact that he's a freshman coming off the bench scoring in double figures.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

TheATLien said:


> I don't see what the big deal is about Marvin Williams


 He has terrible hands. If you were generous he looked like the 4th or 5th best player out there tonight. Jawed Williams was more impressive throughout the tournament

I could be wrong about this kid as he's definitely big but I would be wary of taking this kid #1 overall


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> I don't see what the big deal is about Marvin Williams


Thats because you're an idiot. Gee I don't see what the big deal is about a 6-9 230 pound small forward, thats an amazing athlete, an amazing teammate with a great attitude, scored 12 points and grabbed 7 boards a game in 22 minutes with no offensive plays being run for him, shooting above 50% from 3pt land, shooting 85% from the free throw line, winning a national title, and being acc rookie of the year. Other than that he sucks.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> He has terrible hands. If you were generous he looked like the 4th or 5th best player out there tonight. Jawed Williams was more impressive throughout the tournament
> 
> I could be wrong about this kid as he's definitely big but I would be wary of taking this kid #1 overall


You're judging his overall skills by tonights game only. Good thing you aren't an NBA scout. Wow, a freshman got nervous in the national title game, big shocker there.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Marvin is projected so high because he can score from anywhere on the court. He has a post up game, can shoot the 3, and has a good attitude. It's rare for players his height to have jumpers all around the court, but to have that and a post game is not seen very often.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Maybe it's just me but I see someone scoring 12 and 7 off the bench, and I'm not ready to assign him to the all-star team so fast.

I never said he sucks, and you shouldn't personally attack other posters. He is just very very very very over-hyped.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> Maybe it's just me but I see someone scoring 12 and 7 off the bench, and I'm not ready to assign him to the all-star team so fast.
> 
> I never said he sucks, and you shouldn't personally attack other posters. He is just very very very very over-hyped.


You asked what the hype was about, and you got it shoved in your face. Goes a bit beyond the 12-7 as most experts know. 

Shouldn't have attacked but did, deal with it.


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## onecooljew (Apr 24, 2003)

TheATLien said:


> Maybe it's just me but I see someone scoring 12 and 7 off the bench, and I'm not ready to assign him to the all-star team so fast.
> 
> I never said he sucks, and you shouldn't personally attack other posters. He is just very very very very over-hyped.



Sure hes hyped up. But he earned the hype. Look at the other players on UNC! 3-4 other future NBA'ers...and he still got solid 6th man minutes in. As a Freshman no less..


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Your boy is not a superstar, deal with it.


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## Hollywood (Mar 26, 2005)

KennethTo said:


> Marvin is projected so high because he can score from anywhere on the court. He has a post up game, can shoot the 3, and has a good attitude. It's rare for players his height to have jumpers all around the court, but to have that and a post game is not seen very often.


 My favorite thing about him is his hustle.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> Your boy is not a superstar, deal with it.


Great argument there. All those supporting facts. You gotta do better than that son.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> You're judging his overall skills by tonights game only. Good thing you aren't an NBA scout. Wow, a freshman got nervous in the national title game, big shocker there.


 Well thankfully I'm not a scout but it was more the whole tournament which I based my opinion. Jawed Williams really stepped it up but I didn't notice that from Marvin. He's only a freshman and he seems to have a good jumper for a guy his size but I'm not blown away by him. Especially when you compare him to other guy's from his high school class (Howard, Telfair, Livingston, JR and Josh Smith, Jefferson). He doesn't seem to have a good handle, average hands at best, and is not overwhelmingly athletic. Pluses are his size and shooting with a couple of post moves thrown in there. He's got promise but is really a #1 overall calibre guy: not so sure


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

onecooljew said:


> Sure hes hyped up. But he earned the hype. Look at the other players on UNC! 3-4 other future NBA'ers...and he still got solid 6th man minutes in. As a Freshman no less..


I'm sorry I offended all of you by dissing your God. 

I just don't like to take a so called "expert"'s word on a player, I like to see for my self. And what I saw today, was not impressive.

It's easy to look good coming off the bench, and just being a spark plug.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> I'm sorry I offended all of you by dissing your God.
> 
> I just don't like to take a so called "expert"'s word on a player, I like to see for my self. And what I saw today, was not impressive.
> 
> .


So you're basing your entire opinion on him just looking at this game? That's a great way of evaluating talent.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Yeah, silly me. Judging him on by far the biggest game of his career. What a dumb idea.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

McCants saids he's gone.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

What about the Wisconsin, Mich State, and ACC tournament as well? Once he got to the better competition he faded. We're not saying the guy is going to be a bust. But is really calibre of #1 overall pick? Lebron #1, D. Howard #1, Yao #1. Generally these guys are studs (always exceptions like K. Brown) but it's high standard


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> Yeah, silly me. Judging him on by far the biggest game of his career. What a dumb idea.


Judging a freshman by how he performs in the national title game shows what a true idiot you are. Especially when he's defering to 3 other first round players like he should. He's not gonna step up and score 20-10, it wasn't his job or place to do that. Why can't you get that through your thick skull?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Marvin is a super talented player and will be a star in the NBA, but I still think that Bogut will go #1 and Marvin will go #2......


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> What about the Wisconsin, Mich State, and ACC tournament as well? Once he got to the better competition he faded. We're not saying the guy is going to be a bust. But is really calibre of #1 overall pick? Lebron #1, D. Howard #1, Yao #1. Generally these guys are studs (always exceptions like K. Brown) but it's high standard


He simply defered to the older players in the big games as he should. Ever consider that?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Judging a freshman by how he performs in the national title game shows what a true idiot you are. Especially when he's defering to 3 other first round players like he should. He's not gonna step up and score 20-10, it wasn't his job or place to do that. Why can't you get that through your thick skull?


He seemed to have no problem getting 20 and 10 in round one, but once they started playing more meaningful games Marvin Williams wasn't upfor the task. I'm not saying he sucks, but he is not superstar. You are assuming that if given PT, he would tear it up, but that is only an assumption. You have no facts to back it up, only a gut feeling on your part.

I will laugh my *** off if a 12 and 7 player gets drafted #1 overall.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HeinzGuderian said:


> McCants saids he's gone.


i wonder just how many guys will be back. maybe you can give me some info on that. mccants isnt going to see his stock get any better by staying with a much younger team. i personally dont like his game. i think he's a bit short for a wing player and he drifts in and out of games.i've always thought he's had an attitude problem but he's got his supporters, someone will take him in the first round.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> He seemed to have no problem getting 20 and 10 in round one, but once they started playing more meaningful games Marvin Williams wasn't upfor the task. I'm not saying he sucks, but he is not superstar. You are assuming that if given PT, he would tear it up, but that is only an assumption. You have no facts to back it up, only a gut feeling on your part.
> 
> I will laugh my *** off if a 12 and 7 player gets drafted #1 overall.


The fact that he defered to the older players and didn't force his offense is what the scouts love most about him. Team first, Marvin second. He'll be top two, and he deserves it.


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

Marvin Williams also played a lot more in the opening games, resting Sean May for the stretch run - he had a lot of the offense run through him.

Now, the kid has his flaws (average hands especially) but he's been absolutely terrific at times this year, and hit some huge shots - including a ridiculous game winner against Duke and the offensive putback tonight for the winning points.

Is he the second coming of Lebron James? No, he's not. But he has shown that he is a very polished player with a huge upside and a solid head on his shoulders. This is a fairly average draft at the top, and there's no way he slips out of the top three picks.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> You are assuming that if given PT, he would tear it up, but that is only an assumption. You have no facts to back it up, only a gut feeling on your part.


and you are assuming that he wouldnt tear it up if he were given minutes.....No facts to back it up, just an assumption on your part....

Catch 22.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> The fact that he defered to the older players and didn't force his offense is what the scouts love most about him. Team first, Marvin second. He'll be top two, and he deserves it.


A 12/7 reserve with an undefined position who defers to everyone else on the team. What an elite prospect. 

The Savior? I think not.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> and you are assuming that he wouldnt tear it up if he were given minutes.....No facts to back it up, just an assumption on your part....
> 
> Catch 22.


LOL at ATLien


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> A 12/7 reserve with an undefined position who defers to everyone else on the team. What an elite prospect.
> 
> The Savior? I think not.


Ya, cause everyone in here is calling him the savior? All were saying is that he'll be a heck of an NBA player.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> and you are assuming that he wouldnt tear it up if he were given minutes.....No facts to back it up, just an assumption on your part....
> 
> Catch 22.


So are we just going to assume every bench player in the nation has the ability to tear it up, they just have to defer to upper classmen? 

Or only assume the prospects that ESPN hypes out of it's ***?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

You can't even count on one hand the number of times CBS and ESPN compared him to Michael Jordan this week.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

TheATLien said:


> So are we just going to assume every bench player in the nation has the ability to tear it up, they just have to defer to upper classmen?
> 
> Or only assume the prospects that ESPN hypes out of it's ***?


Look, you can't base a players performance on one game.....If thats the case then Chris Webber was a horrible pro prospect because he called that timeout against Duke that caused them that game. I dont assume that a player is good because of the hype that he gets off ESPN, i actually watched Marvin several times in high school and thought that he had the talent to get drafted straight out of high school. And your case that he's a tweener and doesnt have a defined position isnt really valid because that was the case for Magic, Bird, Duncan, Ben Gordan and many many other great pro's when they were coming out of college...



> So are we just going to assume every bench player in the nation has the ability to tear it up


No, I'm not assuming I actually have seen him tear it up.



I take a lot more stocks on what NBA scouts have to say than ATLalien.....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

TheATLien said:


> You can't even count on one hand the number of times CBS and ESPN compared him to Michael Jordan this week.


They compared their numbers as freshman, not their overall game or their style of play...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Chris Webber only took his team to the Finals two years in a row. Bad example. He also was a 20/10 player.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> They compared their numbers as freshman, not their overall game or their style of play...


It was still enough to make one vomit.

They are only getting started with the Marvin hype machine, too. Just wait until he is actually in the NBA, it is going to get annoying.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HKF said:


> Chris Webber only took his team to the Finals two years in a row. Bad example. He also was a 20/10 player.


He was also a starter and the main option on his team as a freshman, Williams would put up the same numbers if given the playing time and if he was one of the first options on the team.

Point is you cant base a players overall abilities based on one game in their freshman year.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I am not basing his entire game off one game.

I am just saying that for a potential #1 prospect, he didn't look so good tonight. I was simply making an observation. Jeez.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i doubt marvin sees his stock drop as a result of the last couple of rounds of the tournament. just proved he's a teenager and will probably take a few years before he can be a go to guy at the next level.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Thats because you're an idiot. Gee I don't see what the big deal is about a 6-9 230 pound small forward, thats an amazing athlete, an amazing teammate with a great attitude, scored 12 points and grabbed 7 boards a game in 22 minutes with no offensive plays being run for him, shooting above 50% from 3pt land, shooting 85% from the free throw line, winning a national title, and being acc rookie of the year. Other than that he sucks.


Thats the best post I've read in ages...haha


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Marvin Williams didn't play much because Roy Williams, much like Larry Brown and George Karl, is a stupid ******* who won't play freshmen even if they're the best player on their team. Marvin Williams, in very limited minutes put up extremely good stats. After Marvin made a crucial mistake late in the second half today and I said to myself "Marv is killing them, Roy NEEDS to take him out!" He got taken out.... and then put back in after about 30 seconds. Roy has just supreme confidence in Marv and for a Freshman in that UNC youngster hating tradition, that's incredible. Just ask big time ACC Fans about Marvin Williams and they'll all tell you just how damn good this kid is.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

im not completely sold on williams either. theres no doubt that the talent and athleticism is there, but i see him as a tweener at this point who doesnt do anything particularly great, just does a lot of things well. imo, not top 3 material this year. maybe next year although i doubt he decides to stay. great player but to me you cant be the 3rd or 4th best player on your college team and be the 1st or 2nd overrall pick in the NBA draft.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> The fact that he defered to the older players and didn't force his offense is what the scouts love most about him.


Yeah that's it...  


As far as I'm concerned anything you say about the guy should be taken with a grain of salt. You clearly have some kind of unhealthy emotional attachment to him.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm not completely sold on him either, but he is a very good player. The thing is, drafting him at No. 1 for a wing player, he almost has to become a superstar. Is he a superstar? I'm not sure. I've seen him compared to Mashburn without the strength obviously, but Mash was never a superstar, but an all-star caliber player.


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## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> He was also a starter and the main option on his team as a freshman, Williams would put up the same numbers if given the playing time and if he was one of the first options on the team.


You can't select a #1 pick on a whim. Has Marvin shown enough to be the #1 pick overall? 'He would put up such-and-such' numbers won't get him selected first.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> You can't select a #1 pick on a whim. Has Marvin shown enough to be the #1 pick overall? 'He would put up such-and-such' numbers won't get him selected first.


If you read through this thread more I never said that I thought that Marvin is going to be the #1 pick, I actually think that Bogut is....


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

He's going to be a PF in the NBA, that's why scouts are in love with him. He's 6'9" 230 at age 19. By quickly and easily adding weight last summer, he proved that he can easily add weight to his frame to enable him to play PF in the NBA (another 10-15 lbs or so will do, which is easy if you have 1-2 years). He already has a fundamentally sound and relatively consistent jumper out to 3-point land (great for a 19 year old), has decent handles for an SF and great handles for a PF, and _alreadyp_ has the quickness and athleticism to get by most any PF in the NBA. He's got the right attitude, the stable background, and as he proved last year by going to UNC, he's got the patience (could have easily declared last year). And remember, he's 6'9" at age 19, meaning he could grow an inch, maybe 2 or 3.

It's not hard to see why scouts are high on him, his body, attitude, and position translates perfectly over to the NBA, as does Felton’s. There is a reason UNC won the title, it wasn’t just Sean May.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

AZwildcats4 said:


> Yeah that's it...
> 
> 
> As far as I'm concerned anything you say about the guy should be taken with a grain of salt. You clearly have some kind of unhealthy emotional attachment to him.


Actually that is it.

Because I use his name in my handle? Does that mean you wanna do the entire AZ wildcats team? No? Don't make such ignorant statements. We're simply talking basketball. Grow up.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> It was still enough to make one vomit.
> 
> They are only getting started with the Marvin hype machine, too. Just wait until he is actually in the NBA, it is going to get annoying.


You have made your point, taken your beating, now lets just end this before it gets too ugly.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

TheATLien said:


> I will laugh my *** off if a 12 and 7 player gets drafted #1 overall.


But will you laugh as hard when Martynas Andriuskevicius gets drafted 6th while posting 4/3 numbers? For the record, 12/7 in 22 m/g isn't bad (it projects out to 18/10 as a full time player). If I had a top 5 pick and he was available I'd grab him and thank my lucky stars (that I wasn't left choosing between Andriuskevicius & Nema Aleksandrov).


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> A 12/7 reserve with an undefined position who defers to everyone else on the team. What an elite prospect.
> 
> The Savior? I think not.


12/7 isn't too far away from the 15/8 Josh Childress averaged in his _junior_ season...

Williams hasn't gotten to show his WF skill as much as all of us would like, but from the few times he has stepped out on the perimeter, it's obvious he has them. His game is going to translate perfectly to the NBA, and it wouldn't surpise me at all if he pulls a Chris Bosh - and puts up rookie season numbers equal to those he averaged in college.


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## PetroToZoran (Jul 2, 2003)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> You can't select a #1 pick on a whim. Has Marvin shown enough to be the #1 pick overall? 'He would put up such-and-such' numbers won't get him selected first.


Detroit went with that strategy a couple of years ago on the #2 pick...


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> You can't select a #1 pick on a whim. Has Marvin shown enough to be the #1 pick overall? 'He would put up such-and-such' numbers won't get him selected first.


So you think Wayne Simien should be the first pick, since its all about numbers. Simien had great numbers, should he go #1?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Jonathan Watters said:


> 12/7 isn't too far away from the 15/8 Josh Childress averaged in his _junior_ season...
> 
> Williams hasn't gotten to show his WF skill as much as all of us would like, but from the few times he has stepped out on the perimeter, it's obvious he has them. His game is going to translate perfectly to the NBA, and it wouldn't surpise me at all if he pulls a Chris Bosh - and puts up rookie season numbers equal to those he averaged in college.


Nobody is expecting Josh Childress to come in be a superstar and make the HOF by his 2nd year. The hype for this Marvin Williams kid is ridiculous. 12 and 7 and he's going to save the NBA. Get that mess outta here.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> Nobody is expecting Josh Childress to come in be a superstar and make the HOF by his 2nd year. The hype for this Marvin Williams kid is ridiculous. 12 and 7 and he's going to save the NBA. Get that mess outta here.


Where are you getting this crap? Nobody is claiming that he's gonna be an NBA legend or save the game. All espn or anybody has said is that he's gonna be a top 3 pick and he's gonna be a good-great NBA player. You can't judge him as a bust after his freshman year.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

I think Felton definitly seperated himself from the rest of the points in this upcoming draft.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Marvin Williams is the closest player to have the potential to be a superstar besides Bogut. I think he will be as good as Al Harrington in his second season.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Where are you getting this crap? Nobody is claiming that he's gonna be an NBA legend or save the game. All espn or anybody has said is that he's gonna be a top 3 pick and he's gonna be a good-great NBA player. You can't judge him as a bust after his freshman year.


You don't get compared to Michael Jordan in every other sentence on ESPN's pre-National Championship show unless you are going to be one of the all-time greats. This man's hype makes me throw up. I think he will have a career similar to Rasheed Wallace without the attitude. No HOF player here.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> You don't get compared to Michael Jordan in every other sentence on ESPN's pre-National Championship show unless you are going to be one of the all-time greats. This man's hype makes me throw up. I think he will have a career similar to Rasheed Wallace without the attitude. No HOF player here.


I have that show on tivo, and only once did they compare him to Jordan, and that wasn't considering their overall game, it was just about clutch shots. You obviously hate the kid, so why continue posting how he makes you wanna puke? You've said that like 5 times already. You must still be stuck in 3rd grade, whats next? "Marvin is a poopy basketball player" LMAO at you!


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

TheATLien said:


> You don't get compared to Michael Jordan in every other sentence on ESPN's pre-National Championship show unless you are going to be one of the all-time greats. This man's hype makes me throw up. I think he will have a career similar to Rasheed Wallace without the attitude. No HOF player here.


The only reason they were comparing the two was because they both went to UNC.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I have that show on tivo, and only once did they compare him to Jordan, and that wasn't considering their overall game, it was just about clutch shots. You obviously hate the kid, so why continue posting how he makes you wanna puke? You've said that like 5 times already. You must still be stuck in 3rd grade, whats next? "Marvin is a poopy basketball player" LMAO at you!


I never said that I hated him or I think he'll become a bad player. I am just not sold that he is a player to build a franchise around, but should be a great #2 guy. The HOF should not enshrine him so fast, that's all I am saying. Everyone on this board thinks he is going to be a hybrid of Amare Stoudemire and Tracy McGrady. I doubt he will come close to being as good as either of those guys.

Maybe you should not be so defensive when some one objectively critcizes your idol. I am just questioning his potential to be a super star in the future. Apparently, you can't deal with that. If someone doesn't pray to your God Marvin Williams, then you have to hold a grudge against that person. I don't believe in that.

If someone dissed my favorite player Josh Smith, I would not get defensive because I don't care what someone else thinks. I guess you do, and your borderline obsession with Marvin Williams is getting scary. Are you his stalker?


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> I never said that I hated him or I think he'll become a bad player. I am just not sold that he is a player to build a franchise around, but should be a great #2 guy. The HOF should not enshrine him so fast, that's all I am saying. Everyone on this board thinks he is going to be a hybrid of Amare Stoudemire and Tracy McGrady. I doubt he will come close to being as good as either of those guys.
> 
> Maybe you should not be so defensive when some one objectively critcizes your idol. I am just questioning his potential to be a super star in the future. Apparently, you can't deal with that. If someone doesn't pray to your God Marvin Williams, then you have to hold a grudge against that person. I don't believe in that.
> 
> If someone dissed my favorite player Josh Smith, I would not get defensive because I don't care what someone else thinks. I guess you do, and your borderline obsession with Marvin Williams is getting scary. Are you his stalker?


Lets go back to where this all started. You asked what th big deal about him was, and myself as well as about 5 others gave you exact reasons why he is so special a player. You can't seem to handle that and keep making references to throwing up and the HOF over and over. Whoever said he's a HOF player or even an allstar? Who compared him to McGrady or Stoudamire in this thread? You just keep making up sh*t, and that kinda makes ya look like an ***.

I've defended many other players on here besides Marvin. I'm not obsessed with Marvin, just obsessed with proving how dumb you actually are. I don't see anyone on here siding with you, so I guess the consensus is that you are the slow kid in class.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Are you illiterate? Plenty of people have agreed with me and said they aren't sold on him either. It's okay to question the consensus. That doesn't make you stupid or an idiot, you just like to question things. Nothing wrong with that.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

EHL said:


> He's going to be a PF in the NBA, that's why scouts are in love with him. He's 6'9" 230 at age 19. By quickly and easily adding weight last summer, he proved that he can easily add weight to his frame to enable him to play PF in the NBA (another 10-15 lbs or so will do, which is easy if you have 1-2 years). He already has a fundamentally sound and relatively consistent jumper out to 3-point land (great for a 19 year old), has decent handles for an SF and great handles for a PF, and _alreadyp_ has the quickness and athleticism to get by most any PF in the NBA. He's got the right attitude, the stable background, and as he proved last year by going to UNC, he's got the patience (could have easily declared last year). And remember, he's 6'9" at age 19, meaning he could grow an inch, maybe 2 or 3.


He won't be a PF in the nba. He's got too many perimeter skills, and to best utilize them, he will have to play SF. It would be a terrible move to stick him at PF IMO, for short stints yes, though. 

Do people realize that he is only playing post in college because of his great size and toughness? You could take a lot of the great SF's from the nba today, and they would be college post players.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Actually that is it.
> 
> Because I use his name in my handle? Does that mean you wanna do the entire AZ wildcats team? No? Don't make such ignorant statements. We're simply talking basketball. Grow up.



I'm referring to the way you lash out and insult people simply because their opinion differs from yours. Nearly every post you've made has had an angry tone to it. Your right, we are just talking basketball, so just calm down and make your points without getting emotional and attacking people. That's what little kids do.


Marvin is a good prospect, but I have my doubts on whether or not he'll be an all-star caliber player at the next level. He is a bit of a tweener, if you can call a 6'9 19 year old that. His ball-handling skills are limited, and doesn't seem to be too comfortable puting the ball on the floor. His jumper is inconsistent but pretty decent for his age. No post moves to speak of, so playing power forward is out at this point. Also while he is a very good athlete, and wouldn't call him a "freak" like some people do. He works real hard though, I'll give him that. All his weaknesses are correctable so he might prove me wrong, but I see him being a good player, but not an elite one by any means.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

Taller, more athletic Luol Deng. What that gets you in a few years? Who knows.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

the guy is gonna be good...real good...but someone people need to calm the **** down. I personally would be very surprised if he is the 1st pick. He has to get through Bogut and imo that ain't happening


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

3 starters and a 1 bench playing leaving UNC. Damn...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

vigilante said:


> He won't be a PF in the nba. He's got too many perimeter skills, and to best utilize them, he will have to play SF. It would be a terrible move to stick him at PF IMO, for short stints yes, though.
> 
> Do people realize that he is only playing post in college because of his great size and toughness? You could take a lot of the great SF's from the nba today, and they would be college post players.


Scouts aren't high on him because he can play SF. He's not especially quick or fast compared to most SFs in the NBA. He's too big for an SF. He'd be a night in and night out mismatch at PF. And he can still quite easily play PF for a while before developing a post game. A lot of great players don't rely on their post game. Hell, even KG doesn't.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

AZwildcats4 said:


> Nearly every post you've made has had an angry tone to it.
> .


Son, I'll use whatever tone I damn well please.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Potential atlAlien, sure Marvin Williams was like the 5th best player on the UNC team right now, but he's only a freshman and is 6'9 220 and athletic, but he's look good in flashes, and he obviously will get better and that's why a team will take a chance


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

sboydell said:


> Potential atlAlien, sure Marvin Williams was like the 5th best player on the UNC team right now, but he's only a freshman and is 6'9 220 and athletic, but he's look good in flashes, and he obviously will get better and that's why a team will take a chance


Thank you.

The first rational response I've seen to my first question that I made in this thread.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Son, I'll use whatever tone I damn well please.



Go right ahead, your only proving my point for me. Your so infatuated with the guy that you can't have a rational discussion about him. All somone has to say is that they aren't sold on him and you flip out. Like how dare someone say that a young, tall, athletic small forward might not pan out. Remember Darius Miles? Qyntel Woods? Jonathan Bender? Rodney White? Gerald Wallace? I could keep going. Some of those guys had just as much potential as your beloved Marvin Williams. He isn't a sure thing. He does have weaknesses. Seriously is he a member of your family, or are you just on his nuts?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Hey HKF, what do you think of Marvin? Since you watch a lot more college ball then many posters l would like hear you're take

Edit: Never mind I saw you're earlier post comparing him to Mashburn


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/3517174 
according to this story, it looks like both marvin williams and sean may will be sitting down and talking with their coach about what would be intheir best interest. The real question is, does Roy williams still think he will have enough firepower to win another championship in the next couple years, and imo if he doesn't he should probably let these kids go, because marvin would look mighty good in a teal hornets jersey next season.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

> "Williams said he would discuss the futures of Raymond Felton, Sean May and Marvin Williams with those players within the next four or five days. Felton and May have completed their junior seasons; Marvin Williams was a freshman on the team that defeated Illinois 75-70 Monday night to give North Carolina its fourth NCAA title." Charlotte Observer


What about McCants?


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

Hustle said:


> What about McCants?


the main title of that story i posted says.... "Mccants expected to leave early" so from the looks of things, we're gonna have an entire wave of UNC players in the NBA next year.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> Thank you.
> 
> The first rational response I've seen to my first question that I made in this thread.


That's the argument of every Marvin Williams supporter who has posted on this thread.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Jonathan Watters said:


> That's the argument of every Marvin Williams supporter who has posted on this thread.


Except he didn't feel the need to call anyone who doesn't think Marvin Williams is a God, stupid or an idiot.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I don't think the Mashburn comparison works too well because Williams is much longer and much more athletic. He also lacks the ballhandling skill that Mashburn has always utilized so nicely, as Mash is always creating for himself off the dribble. We will see Marvin slash from time to time, but I don't know how much creating he's going to do for himself off the dribble. 

If I were to compare Williams to anybody, it would have to be Tim Thomas, a Tim Thomas that has the right mentality. They are very similar athletes/have very similar bodies(Williams is already a bit stronger, though), and I see Williams doing many of the same things that Thomas does on the offensive end of the floor. 

EHL makes a good comment about Garnett. Garnett's game is rooted in his length, but he takes big men outside on the offensive end. Does this make him a tall 3 or a perimeter-oriented 4? The consensus seems to change every year with KG. We probably end up with the same kind of issue with Marvin Williams.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> Except he didn't feel the need to call anyone who doesn't think Marvin Williams is a God, stupid or an idiot.


I didn't call you stupid or an idiot, so I don't know where you are coming from with that...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Well of course Roy Williams is going to try to convince them to stay and yet May, Felton and Marvin would all be lottery picks.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

"Stay just one more year guys so you can get those useless degrees in sports management, communications, or 'liberal studies' and then maybe I can get an American Express commercial like Coach K and make tons of money off your talent while you guys don't see a dime and ruin your draft stock!"

College Basketball really makes me sick sometimes.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

EHL said:


> Scouts aren't high on him because he can play SF. He's not especially quick or fast compared to most SFs in the NBA. He's too big for an SF. He'd be a night in and night out mismatch at PF. And he can still quite easily play PF for a while before developing a post game. A lot of great players don't rely on their post game. Hell, even KG doesn't.


Scouts are high on him because of his athleticism, and his ability to play inside and outside. It's funny because his perimeter skills are much more developed then his post game.. all of his points in the paint are off put backs basically. But because UNC has no other player other than May to play in the paint because Jawad is soft, they had to stick Marvin in there.

He's not too big for a small forward, he's 6'8-6'9 which is the ideal height for a SF. I mean I could see if the guy was 6'11-7'1 (..KG) or something, then sticking him at PF might make some sense, but he's undersized right now at PF.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Nimreitz said:


> "Stay just one more year guys so you can get those useless degrees in sports management, communications, or 'liberal studies' and then maybe I can get an American Express commercial like Coach K and make tons of money off your talent while you guys don't see a dime and ruin your draft stock!"
> 
> College Basketball really makes me sick sometimes.


Word up.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

I see a little Rashard Lewis in him. I just hope Marv doesn't end up shooting jumpers like Lewis. Like Lewis, Marv has the potential to be an inside outside threat. But Lewis, spend way too much time playing in the perimeter. I think Marv will be better than Lewis eventually. Especially in rebounding and on defense. I think Marv also has a better physic than Lewis. Dunno about his three point will be better than Lewis. But Marv definitely got range.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

vigilante said:


> Scouts are high on him because of his athleticism, and his ability to play inside and outside. It's funny because his perimeter skills are much more developed then his post game.. all of his points in the paint are off put backs basically. But because UNC has no other player other than May to play in the paint because Jawad is soft, they had to stick Marvin in there.


Developing a post game won't be that hard. And the PF position isn't what it used to be, it's not traditional post up power players anymore. Guys like KG and Amare are very successful PFs and I'd hardly say either of them have a good back to the basket game. Amare relies on his incredible athleticism and touch, KG relies on his length, quickness and great jump shot. 



> He's not too big for a small forward, he's 6'8-6'9 which is the ideal height for a SF.


He is listed as 6'9" everywhere I've seen, and he's 19 so he has another couple years to grow. Besides, he has a very long wingspan and very good hops, quick off the floor too. He'd be right around the average PF height, 6'9"-6'11", and he has already proven he can add weight to his frame. 



> I mean I could see if the guy was 6'11-7'1 (..KG) or something, then sticking him at PF might make some sense, but he's undersized right now at PF.


If he's 6'9", his wingspan, athleticism and hops more than make up for the additional inch he lacks. I'd be shocked if he isn't a PF in the NBA.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

For the record, he didn't impress me much either. But, he is still 19, and he came off the bench. His hands are horrible though. I think some one mentioned that already. I know this isn't football, but you have to know how to grab a rebound and catch a pass.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I didn't call you stupid or an idiot, so I don't know where you are coming from with that...


 aonther poster stated he was "an idiot" for not thinking of Marvin Williams as highly as he did. It wasn't directed at you


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

RSP83 said:


> I see a little Rashard Lewis in him. I just hope Marv doesn't end up shooting jumpers like Lewis. Like Lewis, Marv has the potential to be an inside outside threat. But Lewis, spend way too much time playing in the perimeter. I think Marv will be better than Lewis eventually. Especially in rebounding and on defense. I think Marv also has a better physic than Lewis. Dunno about his three point will be better than Lewis. But Marv definitely got range.


you should watch a sonics game and see how many times rashard backs someone down in the paint, you'd be surprised.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

EHL said:


> Developing a post game won't be that hard. And the PF position isn't what it used to be, it's not traditional post up power players anymore. Guys like KG and Amare are very successful PFs and I'd hardly say either of them have a good back to the basket game. Amare relies on his incredible athleticism and touch, KG relies on his length, quickness and great jump shot.
> 
> He is listed as 6'9" everywhere I've seen, and he's 19 so he has another couple years to grow. Besides, he has a very long wingspan and very good hops, quick off the floor too. He'd be right around the average PF height, 6'9"-6'11", and he has already proven he can add weight to his frame.
> 
> If he's 6'9", his wingspan, athleticism and hops more than make up for the additional inch he lacks. I'd be shocked if he isn't a PF in the NBA.


All you've really said is that he should play PF because he'd be such a mismatch for PF's. But so would almost every SF in the league. You don't just stick a guy at the PF spot because he's quicker then them. If KG was 6'9, I guarantee he'd be playing SF.

Like I've said, his game is much better suited for the perimeter. I mean think of this guy on the wing if he works on all the things he has (ballhandling, shooting, passing skills) but still need to be worked on. Isn't it better to build with what he has then try to stick him in the post? I know you keep saying that KG doesn't have post game either, but KG isn't 6'9, and I don't think you can count on Marvin growing anymore at 19..


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

vigilante said:


> All you've really said is that he should play PF because he'd be such a mismatch for PF's. But so would almost every SF in the league.


Every SF in the league:

1) Can't match up physically (in weight and strength) with Marvin Williams of today, let alone a Marvin Williams with another dozen pounds added to his body. And he's not not 6'8". He's closer to 6'10" than 6'8", and he'll probably be 6'10"+ in another couple years.

2) Can't handle a PF defensively, especially in the post. 

3) Don't have Marvin's wingspan.



> You don't just stick a guy at the PF spot because he's quicker then them. If KG was 6'9, I guarantee he'd be playing SF.


That's because KG is thin, he doesn't have nearly the same strength as Marvin at a comparable height. If KG could easily add weight to his body but was only 6'9", he'd still be a PF.



> Like I've said, his game is much better suited for the perimeter. I mean think of this guy on the wing if he works on all the things he has (ballhandling, shooting, passing skills) but still need to be worked on. Isn't it better to build with what he has then try to stick him in the post?


Who says he has to be in the post all the time? Besides, with his athleticism, quickness and his comparable height to current NBA PFs, why the heck wouldn't you want him to develop a back to the basket game? 



> I know you keep saying that KG doesn't have post game either, but KG isn't 6'9, and I don't think you can count on Marvin growing anymore at 19..


Amare Stoudemire is 6'10". Would you really rather have him at SF than PF or C? No. 

And lots of people grow past the age of 19.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

EHL said:


> Every SF in the league:
> 
> 1) Can't match up physically (in weight and strength) with Marvin Williams of today, let alone a Marvin Williams with another dozen pounds added to his body. And he's not not 6'8". He's closer to 6'10" than 6'8", and he'll probably be 6'10"+ in another couple years.
> 
> ...


1)A majority of the SF's in the league would definetly be able to match up with the strength of Marvin, but his height would give him a good advantage. 

2)Neither can Marvin. He has trouble guarding college post players in the post most of the time, tell me NBA PF's. 

3)No, but a lot of them do have even longer wingspan. 



> That's because KG is thin, he doesn't have nearly the same strength as Marvin at a comparable height. If KG could easily add weight to his body but was only 6'9", he'd still be a PF.


KG is thin, and so is Marvin. Actually they have similar body types. Both lanky, but strong. Marvin hasn't added that much weight, but more strength to his body since high school.



> Who says he has to be in the post all the time? Besides, with his athleticism, quickness and his comparable height to current NBA PFs, why the heck wouldn't you want him to develop a back to the basket game?


He doesn't have to be in the post all the time as a PF, but why wouldn't you want a player of his skillset on the perimeter? I mean I could see if he had a developed post game already. But why try to make him a PF, when he has all the skills for a SF.



> Amare Stoudemire is 6'10". Would you really rather have him at SF than PF or C? No.
> 
> And lots of people grow past the age of 19.


Amare has no perimeter skills whatsoever.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

FWIW... Felton & the draft...

http://mb14.scout.com/finsidecarolinafrm6.showMessage?topicID=88871.topic


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## sologigolos (May 27, 2003)

2004-05	36	22.2	11.3	6.6	0.7	1.6	1/2.2	1.1	0.5	2.6	.506	.847	.432	1.6


11.3/6.6 in 22.2 mpg? very simple math dictates that over 33.3 mpg, normal minutes for a starter, he would have done 16.0 and 9.9 on 51% shooting and 43% from the 3......

not too shabby for a freshman....


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

keilhur said:


> 2004-05	36	22.2	11.3	6.6	0.7	1.6	1/2.2	1.1	0.5	2.6	.506	.847	.432	1.6
> 
> 
> 11.3/6.6 in 22.2 mpg? very simple math dictates that over 33.3 mpg, normal minutes for a starter, he would have done 16.0 and 9.9 on 51% shooting and 43% from the 3......
> ...


Try getting that through the thick skull of atlien


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

AZwildcats4 said:


> Go right ahead, your only proving my point for me. Your so infatuated with the guy that you can't have a rational discussion about him. All somone has to say is that they aren't sold on him and you flip out. Like how dare someone say that a young, tall, athletic small forward might not pan out. Remember Darius Miles? Qyntel Woods? Jonathan Bender? Rodney White? Gerald Wallace? I could keep going. Some of those guys had just as much potential as your beloved Marvin Williams. He isn't a sure thing. He does have weaknesses. Seriously is he a member of your family, or are you just on his nuts?


Uh, Miles Woods & Bender - which NCAA championship team did they play on? Who wrote about there terrific, team-first attitude?

To me, he is similar to Antawn Jamison, but with a better outside shot & better free throws. Plus, he is only 19!

I started hyping Bogut as #1 overall last year, but I can see the arguments for MW. 

What I don't really understand is his detractors. 

Of course he's not a "sure thing". (He is sure to be better than Q-Woods though!) 

Of course he didn't start for his team. Of course he is not LBJ.

If you are p!ssed at the hype machine, don't blame Williams. He isn't running it.


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## Tuck (Apr 21, 2005)

Couple of points about Marvin Williams.

One: His hands.

If you have only seen him play in the final two games of the NCAAs you are gonna come off with the wrong impression. For some reason he just had hands of stone those two games. But as someone who saw him play every single game this past season I can tell you thats not typical of him.

Two: His place as 6th man coming off the bench.

Carolina has always had a tradition of honoring seniors and their contribution to the program. He was by no means the 6th best player on the team this year. The fast tempo Carolina played at all season long also minimizes the importance of the starter/bench player tag. Carolina consitantly played 8 deep.

Three: Whether he goes pro or not this year.

When he came to Carolina he committed to two years. Granted thats not binding nor is it even a strong indication of his intent. Circumstances change. But the goal of any student in college is to get the training to succeed in his chosen profession and if he indeed has the potential to go in the top 5 picks and sign a major contract, I would contend that goal was met. Dean Smith always advised his players to enter the draft if they were gonna be a top 5 pick and Roy Williams will do no differently. He needs more improvement to be a solid NBA player. The only question remains where will it be better for him to recieve this training. Coming off the bench in the NBA with a check in his pocket or starring for the Tarheels next year.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Tuck said:


> Couple of points about Marvin Williams.
> 
> One: His hands.
> 
> ...


I agree.


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## Odomiles (Mar 23, 2004)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2043604

It's official.


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