# What does Lebron have to do for national respect?



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

At various points in what has been the best season of his career, people have said KG, Dwight, Kobe, Chris Paul are more valuable then him.

His run to the finals is considered a fluke. People talk openly about the East only being two teams deep, even though the Cavs have proven they can play with both Boston and Detroit.

His team was one of the hottest in basketball coming out of christmas, but no one said anything(certainly not nearly as much as they are saying about Kobe and the Laker's current hot streak).

He's averaging basically 30/8/8. Has a historical PER. Has hit game winner after game winner. Beat Kobe both times he played him. Has worked like a maniac on defense this year(and yet in today's Weekend Dime Chris Paul and Kobe are DPOY candidates with no mention of Lebron, who probably won't even make second team).

For all of the hype about Lebron. He's become underrated, underwatched, and largely ignored.

Why?

Can you imagine if Kobe Bryant was doing what Lebron is doing this year?


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## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)

Not really sure why. He deserves more praise, that's for sure.

LeBron needs a title. That would give him respect.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wait, Chris Paul is getting mentions for DPOY? Wtf? Lebron is 10x the defender Paul is. ugh


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## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)

Or maybe a sex-tape, that would put him over the top.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Brandname said:


> Wait, Chris Paul is getting mentions for DPOY? Wtf? Lebron is 10x the defender Paul is. ugh


According to Marc Stein, ESPN "expert", yes. Go read his garbage Weekend dime article. It must drive Windhorst crazy. His articles go largely ignored by all the other ESPN people.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

he's almost universally discussed as either the best or 2nd best (and at worst 3rd best with duncan) player in the league. his accomplishments are mentioned all the time. a few know-nothings haven't caught up yet on his defense. big whoop. not sure what you want, other than universal acceptance of him as the undisputed best in the game. accept that the cavs aren't as compelling a story right now as the lakers, so kobe will get a little more press, and likely a little more mvp consideration. sustained greatness doesn't get noticed as much as a string of triple doubles would. something that can easily be appreciated.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Wait, Chris Paul is getting mentions for DPOY? Wtf? Lebron is 10x the defender Paul is. ugh


Steals - Paul is leading the league. Think Larry Hughes before he came here when he made 1st team all D.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Steals - Paul is leading the league. Think Larry Hughes before he came here when he made 1st team all D.


I figured that's what it's about, but jeez. You'd think they'd hire some more competent guys. Actually, nevermind. I should know ESPN by now.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

kflo said:


> he's almost universally discussed as either the best or 2nd best (and at worst 3rd best with duncan) player in the league. his accomplishments are mentioned all the time. a few know-nothings haven't caught up yet on his defense. big whoop. not sure what you want, other than universal acceptance of him as the undisputed best in the game. accept that the cavs aren't as compelling a story right now as the lakers, so kobe will get a little more press, and likely a little more mvp consideration. sustained greatness doesn't get noticed as much as a string of triple doubles would. something that can easily be appreciated.


Yeah, I do think Lebron gets a lot of respect. It's been improving this year even (and deservedly so).

There's always going to be people that speak out of ignorance. Hell, go over to RealGM any day of the week, and you'll find people saying things that boggle the mind. I read someone write the other day that Lebron is a liability late in games because he's such a defensive liability. I think he was just a Kobe-jocker since they're pretty out of control over there, but still.

It's clear when reading what people say whether they actually watch his games or not. I always feel the need to try to explain to those people that the things they are saying are outdated (3 or more years old) or just ignorant, but it's obviously a much better idea to ignore them. Anyone who writes about sports is generally going to spread a lot of ignorance. Hell it's almost ESPN's job to spread ignorance at this point. Nothing Lebron will do can change that. 

Too many people like Ric Bucher, Skip Bayless, BJ Armstrong, Charley Rosen, and many, many others have already made up their mind about what they think of Lebron and how they are going to find ways to criticize him no matter what. It's pathetic, in my opinion, but there's absolutely nothing Bron can do about that. Just keep playing his game and people who watch basketball will begin to realize that they're full of crap.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I think LeBron gets plenty of national respect. He's always being talked about on sports channels, and there's always articles about him online or in the newspapers. The only reason that lately he may not be getting as much attention is because of how ridiculous everything is in the West.

Whether you like it or not, not very many people care about the Eastern Conference and who is in the 3-8 seeds. The Western Conference is a much more compelling story this season, for various reasons, and most of them having to do with the Lakers.

But I have no idea how anyone can honestly believe LeBron doesn't get national respect.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think the TYPE of coverage Lebron gets when he gets coverage is not as good as other players, and it leads to a lot of what he does going under-appreciated. Most of the national news articles about Lebron are about how he's going to leave to go to New York, or who he's meeting with on any given day. They are usually about Lebron the celeb not Lebron the basketball player.

How many articles besides Windhorst really break down his impact this season on a consistent basis? How many of his come from behind wins are taken for granted and only covered on the AP?

There's an overarching trend going on in Lebron's career starting at the playoffs last year and going through this year, that the greater populace who doesn't have league pass is largely ignorant of. And I think that's the sports media's fault. They just don't watch enough games. Or any games.

Our perceptions are being controlled by ESPN highlight package editors whose bottom line is crafting a narrative that may or may not be based within reality.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> I think the TYPE of coverage Lebron gets when he gets coverage is not as good as other players, and it leads to a lot of what he does going under-appreciated. Most of the national news articles about Lebron are about how he's going to leave to go to New York, or who he's meeting with on any given day. They are usually about Lebron the celeb not Lebron the basketball player.
> 
> How many articles besides Windhorst really break down his impact this season on a consistent basis? How many of his come from behind wins are taken for granted and only covered on the AP?
> 
> ...


i think you're only seeing what you want to see (or not see). and your expectations are a little out of wack.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I think what pisses off Lebron fans about Kobe is that he can do no wrong in the national media because he frankly has jockers like Bucher who will say anything to prop up Kobe while Lebron really doesn't have any equivalent media types on his side (i.e. John Hollinger is on ESPN.com not ESPN). Meanwhile we get plenty of Skip Bayless.

Also facts tend to be ignored. Lebron scoring 100 more points in the 4th quarter then any other player in the NBA plus by 82games.com he has more assists and less TO's then Kobe and still you have no one say they'll take Lebron at the end of game. This despite Lebron outplaying Kobe when they've played the Lakers


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## Omega (Apr 11, 2005)

:uhoh: i dont understand what is wanted. is it expected that people across the globe will join hands and announce in unison that lebron is the single best player in the NBA. look people have different opinions. and plain and simple lebron does get a lot of coverage. tons of it. i cant watch more than two seconds of espn without lebron showing up in some way some form.


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## Omega (Apr 11, 2005)

kflo said:


> i think you're only seeing what you want to see (or not see). and your expectations are a little out of wack.


quoted for truth


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> I think what pisses off Lebron fans about Kobe is that he can do no wrong in the national media because he frankly has jockers like Bucher who will say anything to prop up Kobe while Lebron really doesn't have any equivalent media types on his side (i.e. John Hollinger is on ESPN.com not ESPN). Meanwhile we get plenty of Skip Bayless.
> 
> Also facts tend to be ignored. Lebron scoring 100 more points in the 4th quarter then any other player in the NBA plus by 82games.com he has more assists and less TO's then Kobe and still you have no one say they'll take Lebron at the end of game. This despite Lebron outplaying Kobe when they've played the Lakers


Establishment I guess.

It's frustrating for now, seeing as how people are by and large somewhat ignorant of what Lebron's been doing this year, but I suspect Lebron will have the same kind of treatment late in his career. He'll probably be held in high esteem longer than he should because everyone wants to go with the proven veteran over the up-and-comer.

Although I guess that doesn't explain people taking Chris Paul over Lebron for DPOY. But I think that's just more ignorance than anything.


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

Although he's getting much more respect for his defensive play than he used to (which is definitely warranted), I get a kick out of people who disrespect his D like it was still 2004. 

Along with averaging 30/8/7.5, he's getting 2 steals and 1 block each nigh. If you base your judgment solely on statistics, that's pretty darn good right there for a small forward, or any position for that matter.

But if you watch the games, you'll notice that Lebron's been guarding the opposing team's best player down the stretch, and the vast majority of the time he's been *highly* successful at it. 

He seems to take a lot of pride playing tough defense these days, and players/coaches are unquestionably noticing that. Quoting Ben Wallace during his press conference after the trade: "Lebron's becoming a great defender...". That's a compliment, coming from a 4 time DPOY.

I wouldn't call him a lockdown defender by any means, but he's certainly worthy of at the very least a second team All D selection this year.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> *I think what pisses off Lebron fans about Kobe is that he can do no wrong in the national media because he frankly has jockers like Bucher who will say anything to prop up Kobe while Lebron really doesn't have any equivalent media types on his side (i.e. John Hollinger is on ESPN.com not ESPN). *Meanwhile we get plenty of Skip Bayless.
> 
> Also facts tend to be ignored. Lebron scoring 100 more points in the 4th quarter then any other player in the NBA plus by 82games.com he has more assists and less TO's then Kobe and still you have no one say they'll take Lebron at the end of game. This despite Lebron outplaying Kobe when they've played the Lakers


Kobe can do no wrong in the media? Is this a joke? Don't be fooled by Bucher and ESPN. Most people still don't like Kobe.


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## tetrax (Feb 28, 2006)

> he's almost universally discussed as either the best or 2nd best (and at worst 3rd best with duncan) player in the league. his accomplishments are mentioned all the time. a few know-nothings haven't caught up yet on his defense. big whoop. not sure what you want, other than universal acceptance of him as the undisputed best in the game. accept that the cavs aren't as compelling a story right now as the lakers, so kobe will get a little more press, and likely a little more mvp consideration. sustained greatness doesn't get noticed as much as a string of triple doubles would. something that can easily be appreciated.


He is absolutely not universally discussed as the best or 2nd best player in the NBA. Do you have backup for this? Lebron is generally mentioned as one of the best players in the NBA, and possibly a person who will go on to become the best player in the NBA. That's it. I don't recall a single time in a national broadcast of a Cavs game that an announcer argued that he could possibly be the best player in the NBA. By comparison, every Lakers game I watch includes "Kobe is the best player in the NBA and he has been for 4 years," "How is it possible that Kobe has not yet won an MVP," "undisputably the best player of our generation." There is a tremendous difference between the sort of attention Kobe gets and the sort of attention Lebron gets. This is independent of team success. It's understandable that the Lakers get attention that the Cavs don't, but we're talking about individual player talk here.



> and plain and simple lebron does get a lot of coverage. tons of it. i cant watch more than two seconds of espn without lebron showing up in some way some form.


Yeah, he shows up on the highlight reel with a dunk every other game, and some mentions of him getting to 10,000 points. That's it. If anything, your expectations are a little out of whack. This guy is having a historically good season. If you don't understand how good Lebron has been this year, you're not going to have a fair view of how respected Lebron should be.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> Kobe can do no wrong in the media? Is this a joke? Don't be fooled by Bucher and ESPN. Most people still don't like Kobe.


Kobe is a very divisive figure, for sure. I think Pioneer10 was talking about how there are quite a few big Kobe fans in the national media (Bucher, BJ Armstrong, etc.) and also because the LA writers like Plaschke and Adande get a lot of air time in the national spotlight, while there is no equivalent for Cleveland (understandable to an extent because of the differences in market size, but frustrating nonetheless). 

Kobe does have his share of haters in the national media like Bill Walton et al. But he also has his share of rabid supporters. Lebron seems to attract the same haters in the national media, but he doesn't have that guy posing as an analyst who will fight tooth and nail to support him. The best he's got is the Sportscenter anchors who see a couple of highlights and jock him up based on those, but nobody takes them seriously. At least some people take ESPN's 'analysts' seriously on occasion.

I see Kobe get torn to shreds by analysts a lot, but I also see others who will defend him and prop him up no matter what. I can't think of a single guy who'll defend Lebron like that, but he still attracts idiots like Rosen and Bayless. 

I'd say Kobe's reputation in the media is more black and white. Either you love him or hate him. I don't see the same effect with Lebron (although there are plenty of guys who really hate him I guess).


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Who is the equivalent of Bucher for Lebron: ?????
Who is the equivalent of Bayless for Kobe: ????
Who is the equivalent of Marc Jackson saying saying Kobe is better then Jordan: ????

Kobe has detractors but he's also got huge amounts of institutional support.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Maybe if Bron had gone to UNC for a year he could have gotten all the stupid UNC crazies on ESPN to vouch for him.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> Who is the equivalent of Bucher for Lebron: ?????
> Who is the equivalent of Bayless for Kobe: ????
> Who is the equivalent of Marc Jackson saying saying Kobe is better then Jordan: ????
> 
> Kobe has detractors but he's also got huge amounts of institutional support.


And this is why I said not to let Bucher and ESPN fool you. All the guys you mentioned work for ESPN/ABC. Their opinions should not really matter. You should know that by now.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Basel57 said:


> And this is why I said not to let Bucher and ESPN fool you. All the guys you mentioned work for ESPN/ABC. Their opinions should not really matter. You should know that by now.


Most NBA games and most sports prognosticators are on ABC/ESPN. It is many ways has a monopoly on NBA. Other networks/sites feature a lot more regarding football etc. because they have contracts


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

win it all. and probably more than once.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Basel57 said:


> And this is why I said not to let Bucher and ESPN fool you. All the guys you mentioned work for ESPN/ABC. Their opinions should not really matter. You should know that by now.


like pioneer said...it's hard to escape ESPN for basketball since all of the games are on there that aren't on TNT. And the TNT guys don't like Lebron because they don't like anyone.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> like pioneer said...it's hard to escape ESPN for basketball since all of the games are on there that aren't on TNT. And the TNT guys don't like Lebron because they don't like anyone.


Well I am not sure about you guys but Lebron and the Cavaliers get plenty of attention/"respect" on 1st and 10 and PTI and Around the Horn. I think they get it just as much as Kobe and the Lakers, and way more than Paul and the Hornets. 

I think it just could be that Kobe is leading a team in the best division at a peak level. And no one thought he would, they weren't very good last year. He turned that team around and then he got Gasol, which really helped the team.

Lebron and the Cavaliers were NBA finaliest last year and we are currently in the 5th position. Lebron is having a great year with a bunch of injuries, but our conference is terrible. 

I personally think Lebron has gotten plenty of attention. Its just this year their are three great players, and the other two players are leading their teams to a better record in a better division. If I were a Paul fan I would be upset at the lack of attention he has gotten.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Omega said:


> :uhoh: i dont understand what is wanted. is it expected that people across the globe will join hands and announce in unison that lebron is the single best player in the NBA. look people have different opinions. and plain and simple lebron does get a lot of coverage. tons of it. i cant watch more than two seconds of espn without lebron showing up in some way some form.


What's wanted is fair, balanced, objective coverage, something E.S.P.N. doesn't offer in the slightest. The talking heads over at E.S.P.N. take any given team and chalk their success up to their star player. This leads to them talking continuously about Kobe Bryant as being the lord most high among the N.B.A. landscape because his team is in first place. The majority of their coverage gives very little credence to the rest of the team. Sure, they'll bring up Andrew Bynum every now and again, but for the most part the talks over at E.S.P.N. spend about 50 percent of the time talking about the teams and 40 percent of the time talking about the star players, five percent of their time talking about the role players, three percent of the time talking about the coaches, and two percent of the time talking about personnel. 

For example, they'll talk about how Allen Iverson is failing his team while being one of the top three guys in his position, yet they'll never ever question why the hell Anthony Carter is starting. Because the time they spend talking about the star players is way off kilter, the fact goes unmentioned that while Bryant has had quality top tier second and third men on the floor, the Cavaliers short of James and Zydrunas Ilgauskas are absolutely atrocious. Aleksandar Pavlovic has had the worst production of any shooting guard in the league and Larry Hughes, Daniel Gibson, and Eric Snow were among the bottom 20 at their respective positions. Those things would never get mentioned on E.S.P.N. 

E.S.P.N also spends far too much time talking about the story that is the most sexy rather than being objective. Jason Kidd is a former star player in the N.B.A., but by no means is a top player in today's game at the point guard position. Still, they buried his name in every story they possibly could to milk the New York metropolitan area and made him into an N.B.A. All-Star over the likes of Chauncey Billups who is the second best point guard in the league and Jose Calderon who very much deserved it over Kidd. <BR><BR>In addition to all of this, they cling to points like they're the only thing that matter. In a recently televised game, the Denver Nuggets took on the Los Angeles Clippers. They talked about how horrid defensively the Nuggets were despite having easily one of the top three defensive centers in the game and they talked about how Allen Iverson stepped his defensive game up in recent months. Meanwhile, Corey Maggette and Al Thorton pour on 61 points and they have the audacity to credit Carmello Anthony with being one of the top two or three small forwards in the league. Apparently the likes of Paul Pierce, Caron Butler, and Josh Howard, the first or second best players on their respective playoff teams who contribute not just on the offensive end, but the defensive end as well, are all worse than the terribly one or at best two dimensional Carmello Anthony because they don't score as much. 

The people on this particular board want fair and balanced coverage, something that E.S.P.N. has not been towards James who has scored more points while being more efficient with his shooting attempts while averaging more assists while averaging more assists per turnover while averaging more blocks while averaging more rebounding while averaging drawing more fouls while averaging less fouls while averaging the same amount of steals and turnovers than Bryant.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

^ That must be one the hardest to read posts I've ever read on these forum. Thank the grammar gods for paragraphs and the use of them by most people


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Pioneer10 said:


> ^ That must be one the hardest to read posts I've ever read on these forum. Thank the grammar gods for paragraphs and the use of them by most people


Sorry, I'm on an old *** computer and only have W.Y.S.I.W.Y.G. Yeah Windows 98!


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

To hell with respect. At this point, who cares about it. It just makes it all the more sweeter if LeBron goes deep into the playoffs again. At this point, who gives a **** what those guys think. I stopped caring a long time ago and trust me, I'm better for it.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

remy23 said:


> To hell with respect. At this point, who cares about it. It just makes it all the more sweeter if LeBron goes deep into the playoffs again. At this point, who gives a **** what those guys think. I stopped caring a long time ago and trust me, I'm better for it.


:clap2:

Honestly, this is how most fans should be. You know your player is awesome; you don't need ESPN to let you know that.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

remy23 said:


> To hell with respect. At this point, who cares about it. It just makes it all the more sweeter if LeBron goes deep into the playoffs again. At this point, who gives a **** what those guys think. I stopped caring a long time ago and trust me, I'm better for it.


Damn good post :cheers:


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

It is slightly unfortunate though that the media will have an influence on his legacy, like they do all players. I wouldn't shed a tear if ESPN shut down, or at least fired every last one of their writers and analysts.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I disagree. I like the coverage because when I'm board at work, it would be nice to read an in depth analysis on the progression of my favorite player. Like whenever after I see Lebron do something great, or have an amazing game, I want to see impact. I want news coverage. Analysis. Discussion. I get so excited, and then I turn around and the only person talking is Skip Bayless.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I despise ESPN to my very core. It's ruining the NBA.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> I disagree. I like the coverage because when I'm board at work, it would be nice to read an in depth analysis on the progression of my favorite player. Like whenever after I see Lebron do something great, or have an amazing game, I want to see impact. I want news coverage. Analysis. Discussion. I get so excited, and then I turn around and the only person talking is Skip Bayless.


Your basically looking for BW to go national :wink:

(Please note that is especially true because BW is NOT a homer, he'll call out a fault just as quickly as any other guy but what he calls actually makes sense)


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

At least guys like BW anyway. Yeah maybe they're rare, but for the love of god, it's the newspaper's job to actually find someone who can get the job done competently. I know for a fact that there are a million great writers out there, but most of them won't be able to see the light of day because they don't have the right connections.

ESPN frankly is doing a complete disservice to the sports community with what they do. Essentially they've sold out their convictions to get ratings (read: money), and while everyone says you can't blame them for that, I disagree. I could make more money doing a lot of ****ty things that I'm against on principle, it doesn't mean I'm going to do it. ESPN should be ashamed that they've taken the integrity out of sports journalism (and this is just a general comment, not necessarily having anything to do with Lebron or even basketball in particular).


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yeah ESPN has made a mockery of the notion of sports journalism being legit. How can it be when you've turned the interviews into Budweiser hot seats, and silver bullet minutes. It's ****ing bull****. Do you think Tom Brokaw would interview Kim Jong Il in a ****ing segment called the Budweiser Hot Seat on a set that looks like "Who Wants to Be a Millionare" leftovers?

Give me a break.

BW is a serious journalist working a field of idiots who think journalist means getting to hang out with your jock buddies and give each other circle jerks. 

And then when they do get a story, like steroids, they pretend that it is the worst thing in the entire universe, and suddenly we're doing the OJ trial all over again. It's like one extreme to the other. Because they get so happy to put their serious pants on for a minute and pretend to be real news people.

We need like the BBC but for American Sports. Like dry, straight to the bone news. We need more guys like David Aldridge in front of the camera reporting the news without losing their dignity, and less guys like ****ing Stuart Scott.

I almost turned my TV off before the Cavs game even started because that cross eyed joke of a reporter kept saying "hundie" instead of one hundred. I feel like I'm watching a ****ing minstrel show when Stuart Scott is on the air. I know he must be smarter than how he pretends, because he pretends to be cool and hip and with it, and he's completely not. And yet he's the one runnning the NBA studio show.

You want to know why the NBA product has a bad rep? It's because of how ESPN covers it. We never get coverage like football and baseball do. And when we do get attention, it's people like Tim Legler that are our experts. Other sports they have hall of fame coaches and players offering insightful information, breaking down plays.

Not so anymore for the ESPN NBA product. It's completely dumbed down.

Do any of you remember when Dr. Jack Ramsay had a segment about basketball on the NBA where he actually broke down tape of the games instead of just running highlight reels?

Hubie Brown would LOVE to do that job. Just give him highlights and a telestrator and let him teach basketball.

ESPN is the worst ambassador for the sport. And their coverage of Lebron is just one example of how they are failing the sport, and us fans.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Has to be because of what happened in the Finals last year, Lebron's performance during it and the fact that people who are on TV a lot say it was a fluke eg. Charles Barkley. Lebron is better now and he's just going to have to prove it again in the playoffs.

What annoys me is when people say Detroit are the clear favourite to come out of the East, when it's obvious that if they play Cleveland they are going to lose again.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

garnett said:


> Has to be because of what happened in the Finals last year, Lebron's performance during it and the fact that people who are on TV a lot say it was a fluke eg. Charles Barkley. Lebron is better now and he's just going to have to prove it again in the playoffs.
> 
> What annoys me is when people say Detroit are the clear favourite to come out of the East, when it's obvious that if they play Cleveland they are going to lose again.


Who the hell is proclaiming Detroit as the clear favorite?


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Basel57 said:


> Who the hell is proclaiming Detroit as the clear favorite?


I'm not saying anyone here, just the 'experts' that I hear on TV. Don't ask me who they are because I can barely remember what I did yesterday. :biggrin:


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Omega said:


> :uhoh: i dont understand what is wanted. is it expected that people across the globe will join hands and announce in unison that lebron is the single best player in the NBA. look people have different opinions. and plain and simple lebron does get a lot of coverage. tons of it. i cant watch more than two seconds of espn without lebron showing up in some way some form.


Pretty much. But if you still want a reason for the respect thing, it'd be cause he's in the East. If he were up in the West going up against Kobe & the Lakers, the Suns, Mavs, Hornets, etc, people would be giving him more "respect".


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

NewAgeBaller said:


> Pretty much. But if you still want a reason for the respect thing, it'd be cause he's in the East. If he were up in the West going up against Kobe & the Lakers, the Suns, Mavs, Hornets, etc, people would be giving him more "respect".


But he plays all those teams and this year he's been beating most of them. I mean he completely owned Kobe in the two games they played the Lakers. People act like he didn't stop Kobe for the fourth quarter, and didn't hit the game winner right in KB24's eyeball. And then the next night he did it to Brandon Roy. And he beat the Mavs by dunking on half of their team in Dallas. They did get blown out against the Hornets, but it was a game the Cavs didn't even show up for besides James, and they matched up poorly with the Hornets at the time. I think they play them again sometime soon but in Cleveland.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I will say though that the national media has been very delinquent in reporting his defensive play.

Maybe that's why I see people constantly underrate him as a defender now. Because the national media doesn't talk about it. I guess they'd rather talk about highlight-reel plays and whatnot, but his defense has been the single most impressive part of his game this year. It's one of the more amazing transformations I've seen a player make in such a short period of time, and why it's not getting more attention I have no idea.

Sure, we all know he can dunk and hit crazy shots and use his left hand and make great passes and all that, but that's nothing new. Why not actually analyze why he's having such a bigger effect this year than ever before -- guys are having a really hard time scoring on him. And to be honest, I'm not sure there's another wing defender in the league I'd take right now to stop a guy in the 4th, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that. His defensive skills have finally caught up with his athleticism and size, and it's a combination that is hard to ignore.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

He's a one man game changer now that he plays defense like he does.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Talk about a stupid premise for a thread. 


No national respect for Lebron? I could have sworn that was him on Saturday Night Live... and that every time I turn on ESPN I see highlights of him in the first block... and that he is universally recognized as one of the biggest stars in sports...

I don't know, maybe its because my team hasn't had an all-star in a decade, but this whole thread seems laughable to me.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

you've missed the nuanced point on the coverage. Quality not quantity.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Yeah, the thread title I don't think quite addresses the point, but it's more of a bigger problem with national sports coverage in general than anything. Lack of depth and accuracy.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

again, you guys are looking at this from a local fanboy standpoint. you want lebron on the throne unconditionally, and when you don't see it, it annoys you. it annoys you that people don't see what you see through the same lense you see it. believe me, lebron gets as much coverage as anyone in the freakin league with the exception of kobe, he gets lauded all the time, and he is a media darling. they love lebron, they just don't love him enough for your tastes. and they love (well, like as a basketball player) another guy as much, or more, a guy you think doesn't deserved to be loved as much or more. and yes, espn has alot of columnist guys who don't know alot and say aggravating things - but they do it about everyone, because they don't know alot! kobe, right now, probably gets more peer respect than anyone in the league because he's actually becoming a respected veteran, and younger guys pay their respects to him in the media, and the columnists just feed off of that and that helps shape their thinking. hey, lebron said kobe is the best, he must be the best. throwaway comments, but not necessarily wrong either. as for lebron not getting credit as one of the top 2 players in the league, believe me, it's the way it is. and shock of shocks, the media is slow to catch up on player improvements in certain areas. how shocking. lower your expectations, please. nothing here is unique at all.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Why is it useful for you to believe that the coverage on Lebron is good?
It's useful for me to believe that the coverage is bad because it serves my greater point to the complete farce that sports "journalism" has become. But I'm not sure why you are so vehement in saying that Lebron is getting good coverage?

Do you believe Kobe is adquetely analyzed by the sports media? I would say he isn't. They love him, but they don't know why. And are unable to explain it or demonstrate it to the casual sports fan without resorting to vague intangibles like "killer instinct" and "clutch".


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

ESPN's biased timing is what annoys me most. We haven't seen a Kobe vs. LeBron poll on their website ALL SEASON. But as soon as Kobe drops 50+ on National TV and pulls off a close victory for his team...next day, there it is...Who's the best player in the NBA? Funny it didn't occur to 'em after LeBron shut him down in the 4th qtr and nailed the game sealing jumper in his face to pull off a great come from behind victory against LA abt a month ago.

The Kobe vs MJ BS also had a similar pattern. The polls only appeared when Kobe was on some high(the 40 point streak in 02-03, the 81 point game and 4 straight 50+ games last season). Thankfully he never won any of 'em.

Also, great point on how LeBron doesn't really have a "GUY" for him in the media. Kobe's got his share of detracters, but has far more guys willing to pump him up in the media 24/7. All LeBron has is Skip Bayless.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

The closest thing Lebron has is Brian Windhorst, though he has criticized Lebron in the past (justifiably so) so he doesn't really count. 

I always wondered why Ric Bucher loves Kobe so much? Either he was a Laker fan growing up or is trying to make a name for himself by being Kobe's "boy" just like Ahmad Rashad was with Jordan. Either way it's irritating.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Why is it useful for you to believe that the coverage on Lebron is good?
> It's useful for me to believe that the coverage is bad because it serves my greater point to the complete farce that sports "journalism" has become. But I'm not sure why you are so vehement in saying that Lebron is getting good coverage?
> 
> Do you believe Kobe is adquetely analyzed by the sports media? I would say he isn't. They love him, but they don't know why. And are unable to explain it or demonstrate it to the casual sports fan without resorting to vague intangibles like "killer instinct" and "clutch".


i'm saying lebron is getting good coverage because i view it through a different lense than you do. i constantly see lebron coverage, and i constantly hear about lebron. and i don't let a few idiot reporters saying dumb things cloud the general overwhelming positives. i think you lock in on the dumb ones.

the sports media is and has been cliche driven for a long time. "they" don't properly analyze anyone. the average person covering a sport is a journalist or personality first, and a sports analyst 2nd. guys like stephen a or skip or charlie crave being talked about first. 

i hear all the time how much lebron has improved defensively. i hear that he learned alot playing with kobe over the summer.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

For anyone interested, on 1st and 10 right now, they're talking about Kobe/LeBron.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> ESPN's biased timing is what annoys me most. We haven't seen a Kobe vs. LeBron poll on their website ALL SEASON. But as soon as Kobe drops 50+ on National TV and pulls off a close victory for his team...next day, there it is...Who's the best player in the NBA? Funny it didn't occur to 'em after LeBron shut him down in the 4th qtr and nailed the game sealing jumper in his face to pull off a great come from behind victory against LA abt a month ago.
> 
> The Kobe vs MJ BS also had a similar pattern. The polls only appeared when Kobe was on some high(the 40 point streak in 02-03, the 81 point game and 4 straight 50+ games last season). Thankfully he never won any of 'em.
> 
> Also, great point on how LeBron doesn't really have a "GUY" for him in the media. Kobe's got his share of detracters, but has far more guys willing to pump him up in the media 24/7. All LeBron has is Skip Bayless.



they had an 8 question kobe/lebron poll at the end of december. 

and maybe you haven't noticed the timing of all of the espn polls. they're usually associated with an actual story.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> For anyone interested, on 1st and 10 right now, they're talking about Kobe/LeBron.


Is that the show with Woody Paige and Skip Bayless? *shudders*


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Brandname said:


> Is that the show with Woody Paige and Skip Bayless? *shudders*


Woody Paige hasn't been on that show in a looooooong time.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> Woody Paige hasn't been on that show in a looooooong time.


Oh. Scary to think he was the lesser of two evils, though.

Needless to say, I don't watch the show.


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## tetrax (Feb 28, 2006)

Current CNNSI headline:



CNNSI said:


> "Best of the Best"
> 
> "But when it comes to picking the NBA's best player, David DuPree says the debate begins and ends with Kobe."





> . i constantly see lebron coverage, and i constantly hear about lebron. and i don't let a few idiot reporters saying dumb things cloud the general overwhelming positives. i think you lock in on the dumb ones.


Where do you see Lebron coverage all the time? I think I might enjoy it.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

tetrax said:


> Current CNNSI headline:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you see Lebron coverage all the time? I think I might enjoy it.


No kidding. After Windhorst I'm usually strapped of places to go besides message boards.

Also I don't think there's been a single good interview of Lebron. Nobody has ever really done an in depth report on his life. He has a rags to riches story, but every report starts with his junior year of high school. I've heard as a kid he was basically living out of a car with his mom, and never going to school, and then he basically got adopted off the streets.

That's a huge amount of trauma for anyone to go through as a kid. And we really have no idea how it really influences Lebron. Does he ever think about his life growing up? How does that influence his goals, how he deals with his teammates? How does that contrast with Kobe's cosmopolitan childhood as the son of an NBA player and Euro-star?

We get these kind of stories about guys like Caron Butler and Ben Wallace all the time. But we rarely get that kind of incite into Lebron. Even when he was coming out of high school, there was little done in the way of biographical reporting.

It seems like for the most part Lebron interviews with a mask on. He jokes a lot, and gives a lot of stock answers. But what is he really like thought wise? I think he's becoming more candid with regards to basketball, BUT there's just a chunk of his personality that I'm missing, which I think keeps him at a bit of arm's length from the average NBA viewer.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> No kidding. After Windhorst I'm usually strapped of places to go besides message boards.
> 
> Also I don't think there's been a single good interview of Lebron. Nobody has ever really done an in depth report on his life. He has a rags to riches story, but every report starts with his junior year of high school. I've heard as a kid he was basically living out of a car with his mom, and never going to school, and then he basically got adopted off the streets.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think it's pretty clear Lebron has been HEAVILY coached by Nike/Media execs because he gives stock and non-controversial answers to almost everything as a reflex.


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

The kobe and lakers threads in general NBA are just plain hillarious. If they wind up losing in the first round which is a big possibility with how the west is built and phoenixs current seeding.. lol


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## number1pick (May 24, 2007)

The Cavs already have a max tv contract, Lebron is talked about almost on a daily basis on most of the big sports radio shows, the lebron v kobe talk is almost once a week topic on sportscenter, pti, around the horn etc, he's written about by every major news paper, constantly talked about in every major city. Not sure what more you want?

I agree his improvement on defense has been overlooked by some media guys this year, but some notice and have brought it up. Even some tv guys. I think he gets plenty of respect. If he were in NY/LA the media coverage would be unbearable.


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## sk8erpro20 (Mar 2, 2008)

futuristxen said:


> At various points in what has been the best season of his career, people have said KG, Dwight, Kobe, Chris Paul are more valuable then him.
> 
> His run to the finals is considered a fluke. People talk openly about the East only being two teams deep, even though the Cavs have proven they can play with both Boston and Detroit.
> 
> ...


well only way is that he has to be in boston celtic team with garnet ray allen lebron james than he will get it or else same thing...goes to team who win most...american sports is all about winning teams.no credit to player who makes a lower team into conference champion..they should monitor everything not just about team doing gr8.Lebron Fan


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Check out the reaction when someone tries to make a case for Lebron:


> It wasn't meant to stir up as much discussion as it did, I honestly thought a "Kobe's 81 points vs. Wilt's 100 points" post I've planned for later in the week would run that dance, but yesterday's Kobe vs. LeBron post drew in excess of 4000 comments. I stopped reading after 81 or so: as is usually the case, some are funny, heaps are dripping with misogyny, most miss the point, and the overwhelming bulk would send your computer's spell-checker into conniptions.
> 
> So it's as good a time as any to clear up a few misconceptions about the post, and defend myself and my stance against those who appear to take great delight in putting words in my mouth.
> 
> ...


Numbers don't matter, East sucks, same yada yada that has to be disproven because that what we get fed. It's funny to find a Lebron supporter in the national media we have to go to the "hyperpartisan" Dwyer  to counterbalance the Bucher, Adande, etc.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Check out the reaction when someone tries to make a case for Lebron:
> 
> 
> Numbers don't matter, East sucks, same yada yada that has to be disproven because that what we get fed. It's funny to find a Lebron supporter in the national media we have to go to the "hyperpartisan" Dwyer  to counterbalance the Bucher, Adande, etc.


I actually kind of like what he wrote in that article.

Many Lakers fans have pointed out his inconsistency in previous MVP voting (here he says Kobe should have won in 05, but he actually chose Lebron at the time), but if you go back and look at his original article at the time, he said Kobe has just as good of an argument as anyone.

It's good to see the opinion of someone who actually spends a lot of time watching the games, though. A lot of comments in NBA General make me think that people haven't watched Lebron nearly as much as they seem to be letting on...


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Brandname said:


> It's good to see the opinion of someone who actually spends a lot of time watching the games, though. A lot of comments in NBA General make me think that people haven't watched Lebron nearly as much as they seem to be letting on...


The best was when that one guy made a whole argument out of comparing the Pacers game the Cavs won in a blow out and the Pistons game, because he only looked at the minutes played.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> I actually kind of like what he wrote in that article.
> 
> Many Lakers fans have pointed out his inconsistency in previous MVP voting (here he says Kobe should have won in 05, but he actually chose Lebron at the time), but if you go back and look at his original article at the time, he said Kobe has just as good of an argument as anyone.
> 
> It's good to see the opinion of someone who actually spends a lot of time watching the games, though. A lot of comments in NBA General make me think that people haven't watched Lebron nearly as much as they seem to be letting on...


I liked what he wrote what I was trying to point out again was that the non-partisans like Dwyer or Hollinger are making a case for Lebron while there is no equivalent of the Buchers out there for Lebron


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> The best was when that one guy made a whole argument out of comparing the Pacers game the Cavs won in a blow out and the Pistons game, because he only looked at the minutes played.


Yeah that was funny. At least that guy had the guts to admit that he was wrong.

Some of these people CLEARLY haven't been watching the games, yet they feel as if they're just as qualified as anyone else to talk about it. 

In general right now, it seems as if there's some aura of protection around Kobe this season. People are joining together to try to make it an everyday statement that 'Kobe is the best in the game' when in reality the facts simply don't back it up. Maybe it's because his team is winning more this season, I don't know. But there's something weird about the way people are suddenly leaping to his defense when he's been outplayed for the most part across the board by Lebron.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Yeah that was funny. At least that guy had the guts to admit that he was wrong.
> 
> Some of these people CLEARLY haven't been watching the games, yet they feel as if they're just as qualified as anyone else to talk about it.
> 
> In general right now, it seems as if there's some aura of protection around Kobe this season. People are joining together to try to make it an everyday statement that 'Kobe is the best in the game' when in reality the facts simply don't back it up. Maybe it's because his team is winning more this season, I don't know. But there's something weird about the way people are suddenly leaping to his defense when he's been outplayed for the most part across the board by Lebron.


Agreed.


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## hendrix2430 (Mar 21, 2005)

damn Lebron with another nice pass


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

> *Q: Why is everyone handing Kobe the MVP and counting me out? I'm carrying a lousy team and averaging nearly a triple-double every night. I play hard every game. I've become a really good rebounder and weak-side shotblocker at crunch time. I lift my offensive game at the end of every game and score with 2-3 guys guarding me. When I drive to the basket, I can go left or right and guys bounce off me like superballs. I always make the right pass. I always make the right play. Every time I'm on national TV, I put on a show. Basically, I became who you wanted me to be ... and if that's not enough, I'm only 23. Do you realize I'm the same age as MJ during the 63-point game at the Garden? That's right, I'M THE EXACT SAME AGE AS MJ DURING THE 63-POINT GAME!!!!!!! And you're all taking me for granted already??? Yeeeesh. No wonder MJ played baseball for two years.
> --LeBron J., Cleveland*
> SG: Let's get one thing straight: MJ played baseball for two years because David Stern secretly suspended him for 18 months for gambling and told him to come back for the '95 playoffs. Get your facts straight. As for your other points, you're right -- you and Chris Paul are the leaders for MVP at the three-fourths mark because you're both having superlative seasons, as is Kobe, with the difference being that neither of you has Phil Jackson or a great bench, and in your case, you don't have even a borderline All-Star on your team. It's you and 11 role players. Switch you and Kobe and you'd be doing just as well, but he'd be gritting his way through every Cavs game on cruise control and leaking fake trade rumors through his agent. I also can't forgive Kobe for what happened during the first 15 games, when he moped around and pushed for a trade. Does someone do that during an MVP season? I say no.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080305

At least we have Simmons


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Case in point. After Kobe's 50 point game this weekend people were like "this is why Kobe is clearly the best player in the league and he may be the best ever".

After Lebron's 50 point game, there's not even an article in ESPN's daily dime about him having done it. 50/10/8 and it's a little AP game wrap and a little blurb on the side giving his stat line. I mean he only had this game in freaking basketball mecca MSG. A guy was so overcome by Lebron's play that he ran out on the floor to meet him. The crowd was chanting MVP.

It isn't a huge huge story, and it doesn't have a bearing on Lebron vs. Kobe. But still...I hate as a fan after something this exciting, I can't find anyone out there writing about it. No one is spewing hyperbole about it. It feels like it didn't even happen. It was like when Kobe got his 46 people went nuts. Lebron dropped 51 the next night and people didn't say ****.


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