# Paul Pierce: The Truth



## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

I am sick of seeing on message boards all over how Pierce is "selfish", a "ballhog", etc. It is perfectly reasonable to want him traded and to criticize aspects of his game of course but why do bashers have to lie and mislead to make their point? I think the playoff statistics explain why! Here is a comparison to the best SG's in the playoffs: Rip, Manu and Wade.

Pierce: 39 min. 23pt. 13shots 51% 1.9 stl 1.4 blks 7.7 rebs. 2.7 TO 4.7 ast

Manu: 32 min. 22pt. 13 shots 51% 1.1 st 0.3 blk 5.8 rebs. 2.7 TO 4.3 ast

Rip: 44 min. 21 pt. 17 shots 48% 0.9 st 0.1 blk 2.8 rebs 3.6 TO 4.9 ast

Wade: 41 min. 27pt 20 shots 48% 1.5st 1.1 blk 5.7 rebs 4.4 TO 6.6 ast

Now who is the ballhog? Is it Manu for taking same number of shots in 7 less minutes or Wade taking 7 more shots? Why don't Manu, Rip and Wade defer more? I mean they actually have Shaq's, Duncan's, Billups/Sheed/Prince's to defer to!

Who had the most blocks/steals/rebounds? Pierce! So the Truth is actually a better defender than he is credited with! Who has the least TO's? Pierce! And 4.7 assists is hardly a ballhog! Who has the highest assist/shot ratio? That would be Pierce once again!

Criticize his leadership. Criticize the fact that he isn't as unstoppable as the best players like Wade or Iverson. Criticize his suitability for Doc's offense. Just don't make unsubstantiated and unprovable claims about his game. He is what he is. If you don't like him - fine. Just don't lie about him. I mean this perception of Pierce as a ballhog and as a guy who is unwilling to defer is a joke. The best player he has ever played with is Antoine Walker.... and he actually defers to Toine all the time!


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

The Truth will set you free, my friend.

Yes, the best player he ever played with was Antoine Walker. That speaks volumes about the guy's ability.

He gets zoned up on, boxed and oned, and always draws the other team's best defender. Imagine Ricky Davis with Tayshaun on him instead of Rip; Artest on him instead of Reggie Miller.

If Paul played with Shaq, Duncan or a team like Detroit, he'd be a beloved player. Here he gets criticism. Kind of funny. Or sad.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

> Yes, the best player he ever played with was Antoine Walker. That speaks volumes about the guy's ability.


Crazy when you put it that way. I hope PP finishes his career in *GREEN* and I hope he's around when we raise #17.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> I am sick of seeing on message boards all over how Pierce is "selfish", a "ballhog", etc.


It does get monotonous. The Boston media has always needed a scapegoat, no matter the sport. Paul Pierce seems to be that scapegoat because of one bad decision. Pierce's critics seem content to ignore statistics and have the vision of last year's Paul Pierce.



> Now who is the ballhog? Is it Manu for taking same number of shots in 7 less minutes or Wade taking 7 more shots?


Of course not, because their team didn't get bounced from the 1st round in ugly fashion and thus Paul Pierce is the ballhog.



> Why don't Manu, Rip and Wade defer more? I mean they actually have Shaq's, Duncan's, Billups/Sheed/Prince's to defer to!


That's actually a very good point.



> Who had the most blocks/steals/rebounds? Pierce! So the Truth is actually a better defender than he is credited with! Who has the least TO's? Pierce! And 4.7 assists is hardly a ballhog! Who has the highest assist/shot ratio? That would be Pierce once again!


You can whine about PP's behaviour all year but the point is he DID buy into the system and play a different way than he has his entire career, and as a result his FG%, 3PT% are up whereas his TO's are down. He played the way Doc Rivers wanted him to. Period. 



> Criticize the fact that he isn't as unstoppable as the best players like Wade or Iverson.


Not many guys are.



> I mean this perception of Pierce as a ballhog and as a guy who is unwilling to defer is a joke.


Bingo.



> The best player he has ever played with is Antoine Walker....


By far, too.



> Here he gets criticism. Kind of funny. Or sad.


It's a good thing Danny doesn't share the views of some here who'd trade him for a bag of peanuts. People don't take everything into consideration. I had a good post about this in the Al Jefferson Trade thread.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

I don't really think most people consider Paul to be selfish because he takes to many shots, is a ballhog etc. Your stats clearly point to a highly efficient and unselfish player - _statistically_ speaking.

I think most people's problem with Paul is his maturity and that he often times refused to play in Doc's system. The Celtics are a horrid half court set team. Our best basketball is when we are playing up tempo fast break basketball. During that run where we won 11 out of 12 after Antoine returned, the major reason we did so is because we ran - Paul was energized by Antoine's return and bought into the system. Then after some impressive wins he became complacent didn't hustle enough and stopped buying into the system. He got caught up in Obie ball where it was all about isos and threes. 

I think Paul is a fine talent, but he needs to hustle more and grow up.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

I think your criticism of his maturity is valid. We all know he talks too much, doesn't work the officials that well, doesn't like the heat of being the leader etc.

However, the reason our half court set is so bad is because Paul is the only legitimate half court option and is the only guy who gets double teamed.

I am open to trading Paul some day if the right deal comes along. However, I would like to see how he and Al play together towards the end of next year first. I would like to see how good Paul is playing next to equal before I give up on him.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

banner17 said:


> I think Paul is a fine talent, but he needs to hustle more and grow up.


He does need to grow up some.

He does need to hustle more in transition and on defense. But the guy dives for loose balls and sacrifices his body for rebounds.

Your points are well taken. However, Sam I Am is on target here.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I do agree that all these trades that have been mentioned, and the fact that people are calling him a ball hog and selfish are, well, not well thought out. 

But, I've seen even better things from Paul that I have seen this season. Who cares about FG% really? I think we learned this last season that even with a higher %, it doesn't automatically translate into more wins. Because what really matters is the points. Teams don't win when they shoot a better percentage from the floor, they win when they score more points than the other team.

I honestly don't believe that Paul has "bought into Doc's system" yet. Not that Doc's system is the best there is, face it the guy makes a lot of mistakes, but I believe that both Doc and Paul need to be given at least another year before we get rid of either (and Walker).

At times, we have seen both Toine and Paul play great within the playbook, but at others we have also seen them isolate and play OBieball. I like Paul, and after Toine came back, I started loving Paul again, because he showed that he can once again play at the top level that he's capable, but when I see him go one on three then lose the ball, it gives me migraines.



> However, I would like to see how he and Al play together towards the end of next year first. I would like to see how good Paul is playing next to equal before I give up on him.


That's what I want with Antoine too.



> But the guy dives for loose balls and sacrifices his body for rebounds.


So does Toine. :-/ Let's keep him too. 

Also somebody mentioned Paul being "great on defense"
He's only "great" when he tries, but because he tries to spend too much time under the boards, he leaves his man wide open. If he was actually comitted to his man, he'd probably make All-Team Defense once or twice.


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## celtsb34 (Apr 22, 2005)

Paul Pierce is in the top 5 in SG's

1.Tracy McGrady
2.LeBron James
3.Paul Pierce
4.Ray Allen
5.Vince Carter

(Kobe isn't in cause his attitude sent Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, and Phill Jackson away)

And top 10 players

1.KG
2.Tim Duncan
3.Shaq
4.T-Mac
5.Dirk Nowitzki
6.Allen Iverson
7.LeBron James
8.Steve Nash
9.Elton Brand
10.Paul Pierce


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

In my opinion, he isn't (a top ten player in the NBA).

1a. Tracy McGrady
1b. Kobe Bryant (that was a ridiculous reason)
3. LeBron James
4. Allen Iverson (I consider him a shooting guard).
5a. Paul Pierce
5b. Ray Allen
5c. Vince Carter
5d. Shawn Marion

1a. Kevin Garnett
1b. Tim Duncan
1c. Shaquille O'Neal
4a. Kobe Bryant
4b. Tracy McGrady
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7a. LeBron James
7b. Amare Stoudemire
7c. Dwayne Wade
10. Steve Nash


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

wasn't he only the BEST REBOUNDING GUARD last year during the season? 7 boards a game is good for a pf, for a guard its ridiculous.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

hirschmanz said:


> wasn't he only the BEST REBOUNDING GUARD last year during the season? 7 boards a game is good for a pf, for a guard its ridiculous.


Well, although he is one of the best rebounding *small forwards* (next to Shawn Marion and Josh Howard), he spends too much time on the defensive glass instead of running and leading the 'break. Although it's not a _great_ fault of his (as he helps out *a lot* on the glass), I would much rather prefer him running the floor.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> He's only "great" when he tries, but because he tries to spend too much time under the boards, he leaves his man wide open. If he was actually comitted to his man, he'd probably make All-Team Defense once or twice.


This is true. Not to make excuses or anything but it's very tough to put in a great defensive effort and offensive. An elite player should be able to do it, but it's tough. Dunno how many mpg Paul could do if he actually gave 'er on defense. Talent is there, effort isn't always.

Premier, we're such a pathetic rebounding team I welcome all contributions by Paul on the glass.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

What I find nauseating is to hear guys say Paul isn't that good and then call T-Mac a top 5 player. Why not add Carter while you are at it.

If you want to dismiss Paul because he isolates, turns the ball over etc. how can you love T-Mac and Kobe? Overrate Manu and Rip if you want to diss Paul. But to call his clones top 5 and say he isn't top 10 makes little sense to me. 

T-Mac hasn't won a playoff series yet. Choking against Dallas this year was just icing on the cake. The guy is immensely talented and great at filling up the stats column but he disappears in the 4th when it matters and he never wins the big game.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

in 02-03 pierce was a top 10 player in the league...now with the emergence of ppl like wade and amare and lebron etc i think he is still top 15-20...but even though i love the guy top 10 is pushing it


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Pierce in my opinion and many others around my way is one of if not the best 1 on player in the NBA...Undoubtly I consider him to be top 5 in the leauge...Who can honestly stop Pierce or contain him to under 15 a game...The only person I have ever seen keep him under that is himself when he just doesn't show up for work...


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

Can we stop kidding ourselves? I love Paul, and my license plate on my car is also Truth34, but he is not a Top 5, or Top 10 player.

Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Nash, LeBron, Dwayne Wade, Ginobili, a healthy Jason Kidd, and Ben Wallace are all better, just to name a few.

There is more to the game than scoring, as the two Finals participants are pointing out. 

With your logic, Iverson and Kobe are the two best players in the league. Excuse me while I stop laughing.

Paul is a Top 20 player. He is our best player. We should keep him and keep building.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

MindzEye said:


> Pierce in my opinion and many others around my way is one of if not the best 1 on player in the NBA...Undoubtly I consider him to be top 5 in the leauge...Who can honestly stop Pierce or contain him to under 15 a game...The only person I have ever seen keep him under that is himself when he just doesn't show up for work...




top 5?!....duncan shaq lebron kobe tmac garnett amare iverson dirk...theres 9 without even thinking hard that are better than paul


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> top 5?!....duncan shaq lebron kobe tmac garnett amare iverson dirk...theres 9 without even thinking hard that are better than paul


His quote was one of the top one on one players in the game. I don't think he meant top 5 all around.

Although from your list I would happily keep Pierce over Iverson and Kobe. Probably TMAC as well.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> His quote was one of the top one on one players in the game. I don't think he meant top 5 all around.
> 
> Although from your list I would happily keep Pierce over Iverson and Kobe. Probably TMAC as well.



ahh i didnt quite catch that one on one comment the first time around....fair enough...i can see why you would keep him over kobe as kobe is a headcase...and iverson is small and gets beat up quite alot...but to keep him over tmac??? the man is unstoppable


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> I love Paul but he is not a Top 5, or Top 10 player.


I agree. You can make an argument for Top 15 and he's certainly Top 20. And I say this as I'm wearing my Pierce jersey at school right now.



> and iverson is small and gets beat up quite alot


Not to mention he shoots way too much for way too low of a %.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ahh i didnt quite catch that one on one comment the first time around....fair enough...i can see why you would keep him over kobe as kobe is a headcase...and iverson is small and gets beat up quite alot...but to keep him over tmac??? the man is unstoppable


I love TMAC. Maybe I am being a homer on this one. With TMAC on Orlando I always thought he just needed more talent around him. Houston was a big upgrade and I thought TMAC and Yao should have been a tougher combo. 

Maybe I am being a homer - but Pierce just seems tougher and more competitive. I'd love to see Pierce with a top big in the middle.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> Houston was a big upgrade and I thought TMAC and Yao should have been a tougher combo.



i put 99% of the blame on yao...hes soft like bread...tmac was the one carrying that team the entire year...there r way too many games where yao has 4 or 5 rebounds...i mean cmon ur 8 feet tall he should avg at least 13 rebs a game


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

No question Yao is soft. Although I'd take him over anything we have in the middle.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ahh i didnt quite catch that one on one comment the first time around....fair enough...i can see why you would keep him over kobe as kobe is a headcase...and iverson is small and gets beat up quite alot...but to keep him over tmac??? the man is unstoppable


T-Mac is unstoppable until the 4th quarter. We saw T-Mac and Paul go head to head a number of times when he was in Orlando and 2 more times last year. Head to head Paul has always shown himself to be the tougher, more clutch and better player. Ditto Kobe. One can say that Kobe mailed it in against the Celtics because with Shaq shooting 19-25 against our pathetic big men but I don't think that is true.

Lebron is already a better playmaker than Paul and is already more unguardable but the level of his play really tailed off again at the end of the year whereas Paul stepped it up a notch. In the last month of the season - Paul>Lebron. I suspect it has to do more with maturity than character but time will tell. Lebron is definitely not top 10 .... YET. Everybody knows how good he is going to be so they are willing to overrate him now.

The following players were indisputably better than Paul last year: Nash, Amare, Shaq, Wade, Duncan, Iverson, Dirk, Ray Allen.

The following players might have been better: Garnett, Arenas, T-Mac, Rip, Manu, Lebron (at least pre-All Star), Ben Wallace.

The following players were probably not as good last year: Carmelo, Prince, Jermaine O'Neal, Bosh, Zach Randolph, Brand, Maggette, Yao, Gasol, Kobe (YES - KOBE! Had more talent around him and did less with it), Redd, Carter, Kidd (he wasn't healthy, and he wasn't as good).

Notice that many listed above have a teammate also listed above. Would anybody else on the Celtics roster even be considered on that list? Of course not!


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

T-mac might slow down a bit in the fourth, but what about the unspeakable comeback against the spurs?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

SamIam said:


> Notice that many listed above have a teammate also listed above. Would anybody else on the Celtics roster even be considered on that list? Of course not!



cmon now r we forgettin about someone...(cough) toine (cough)



ok before some of u get ur panties in a bunch im kiddin...somewhat :biggrin:


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

SamIam, care to post your reasoning on why Pierce is better than Tracy McGrady or LeBron James on the NBA General forum? Instead of turning this thread into a spewing match, I'll leave it with this message:

I disagree.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> SamIam, care to post your reasoning on why Pierce is better than Tracy McGrady or LeBron James on the NBA General forum? Instead of turning this thread into a spewing match, I'll leave it with this message:
> 
> I disagree.



i agree...i mean...i disagree...i mean i agree that pierce is not better than lebron or tmac...yea thats it


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

Premier said:


> SamIam, care to post your reasoning on why Pierce is better than Tracy McGrady or LeBron James on the NBA General forum? Instead of turning this thread into a spewing match, I'll leave it with this message:
> 
> I disagree.


First of all Lebron. Lebron is without question the equal of Paul Pierce right now as a scorer, rebounder and is a superior passer... at least during the first half of the season when the game is less intense and there is less pressure. However, he doesn't know how to win during the playoff hunt. His team for 2 years in a row ... choked.... in the clutch when the playoffs were all but sown up. He had enough talent around him to get it done this year and didn't. When the team started losing, Lebron stopped playing like Magic and Larry and started trying to do it all himself. Paul hit 3 game winning shots in 1 week at the end of the season and pretty much carried the team on his back into the playoffs and during the playoffs against Indiana. At the end of the season, Paul was playing better basketball. That is all I said. Lebron is only 19 and that is his biggest flaw right now. When the playoffs come around he is still a boy and the NBA is a man's game. I have no doubt that sometime next year or the year after that Lebron will reach a level that Paul can only dream about.

McGrady is far more talented than Pierce. However, his team in Orlando lost how many games in a row? Paul's team last year had less talent and made the playoffs. McGrady, by the way, has never won a playoff series. Yes he has the potential to be a better player - just the way A-Rod could be better than Jeter or Tejada - but he just isn't. McGrady clearly has more upside to his game whereas Paul has already hit his ceiling. But McGrady got traded for Steve Francis for a reason. He is a quitter and he cannot win the big game. He might set the NBA record for losing 7 game series after being ahead 3-1 or 2-0 ....

I have said it before and I will say it again: The best player by far that Paul has ever played with is Antoine Walker. Raef LaFrentz is the second best and Ricky Davis is the third best. Lebron has played with Big Z and Boozer. T-Mac has played with Carter, Hill and Yao. Basketball is still a team game and a guy like Paul Pierce would look so much better if he ever gets the chance to play with another quality NBA star.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

hirschmanz said:


> T-mac might slow down a bit in the fourth, but what about the unspeakable comeback against the spurs?


What about that game? It was a meaningless game before Christmas. What he did was incredible and is not representative of McGrady at all. I mean did Acie Earl's 46 pt game against the Celtics make him an All-Star? 

What about Paul Pierce's 46 point second half against the Nets in 2002? What about the greatest comeback in playoff history... led by Paul Pierce? As great as those 2 games were they are hardly representative of Paul Pierce.

Who knows. McGrady may have turned the corner this year. Statistically he was one of the few SG/SF types who had a superior year to Pierce but not by much. I just think it is funny that it is just accepted that T-Mac is a top 10 player when he can't win a thing. Never in my life have I heard of a top 10 player who had a great coach, a top 5 center and couldn't win a playoff series. (ditto for Lebron).

McGrady:
MIN FG FG% FT STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 
40.8 9.2-21.3 .431 5.5-7.1 . 1.73 0.7 2.6 2.1 0.9 5.3 6.2 5.7 25.7 

Pierce:
MIN FG FG% FT STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 
36.1 6.8-14.9 .455 6.7-8.1 1.62 0.5 2.8 3.1 1.0 5.6 6.6 4.2 21.6 

Pierce: 22 pts/15 shots = 1.5 4.2 ast/15 shots = 1 asst/3.6 shots
T-Mac: 26 pts/21 shots = 1.2 5.7 ast/21 shots = 1 ast/3.6 shots

T-Mac hogged the ball more, shot worse percentage, rebounded less and his assist to shot ration was the same as Pierce. But he scored 26 and Paul scored 22 so he is top 5 and Pierce is a cancer. I'll take the guy who made to the ECF finals over the guy who can't win a series any day!


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

I agree with all that, and I think pierce has been the better player. Just that the argument about t-mac not stepping up in the fourth holds little water for me.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

SamIam said:


> What about that game? It was a meaningless game before Christmas. What he did was incredible and is not representative of McGrady at all. I mean did Acie Earl's 46 pt game against the Celtics make him an All-Star?
> 
> What about Paul Pierce's 46 point second half against the Nets in 2002? What about the greatest comeback in playoff history... led by Paul Pierce? As great as those 2 games were they are hardly representative of Paul Pierce.
> 
> ...


Nice post SamIam. Again I hope Pierce stays with the Celtics and we finally get some quality talent around him. The quality talent might already be on the C's in AJ or another of the young gun but who knows when they'll blossom to a star.

But agreed - I'll take Pierce over TMAC.


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## celtsb34 (Apr 22, 2005)

Causeway said:


> But agreed - I'll take Pierce over TMAC.


I'd take T-Mac over Pierce in a second


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

I think Pierce would be a much better fit in Houston with Van Gundy and Yao. Pierce gets no credit for his defense because he doesn't put up much effort on that end consistently in the regular season. However, he is a far superior defender than T-Mac - especially come playoff time. T-Mac weighs 210 lbs and gets pushed around. Pierce is a solid 235.

One more example of Pierce's greatness - Game 6 against Indiana. I know he imploded at the end But here is a reminder of his performance:

7-12, 20 pts. FG%=58%. 11 rebounds. 6 assists. 4 steals. 1 Block. 1 TO.


The rest of the team shot 30-78, 72 points, 38%. This so called ball hog who played 44/48 minutes only took 13% of the shots (not even his fair share or 1/5) and scored 22% of teams points.

It is hard to take seriously anybody who can't even properly evaluate the talent on his own team!


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> in 02-03 pierce was a top 10 player in the league...now with the emergence of ppl like wade and amare and lebron etc i think he is still top 15-20...but even though i love the guy top 10 is pushing it


Top 15-20 might be pushing it as well if you want to factor in his rather surly attitude. To be blut, I wouldn't care if he was dealt this offseason.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

agoo101284 said:


> Top 15-20 might be pushing it as well if you want to factor in his rather surly attitude. To be blut, I wouldn't care if he was dealt this offseason.



I think there are 7 elite players. Paul holds his own amongst the next level of player which probably includes almost 15 players. Whether he is 8th best or 23rd best is really academic. All of the guys at that level are close enough in talent that it doesn't quite matter.

For the record, the Pierce of 2002 had some amazing games but they were often followed by 12-13 point stinkers. I personally think that the more consistent more unselfish Paul Pierce of 2005 was the best he has ever played.


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## celtsb34 (Apr 22, 2005)

Paul Pierce

3rd best SG

10th best player


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

celtsb34 said:


> I'd take T-Mac over Pierce in a second


Why?


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## Lord-SMX (May 29, 2005)

i like the truth... he's a tough defender and a great overal player! He wants out cuz boston ain't doing **** for him1


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

When did Pierce say he wants out?

How is Boston _not_ doing **** for him?


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

SamIam said:


> However, he is a far superior defender than T-Mac - especially come playoff time.


Did you not see T-Mac give Dirk fits in the Houston-Dallas series?


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## HawksFan8 (Apr 21, 2005)

Truth34 said:


> The Truth will set you free, my friend.
> 
> Yes, the best player he ever played with was Antoine Walker. That speaks volumes about the guy's ability.
> 
> ...


Paul would not be beloved if he played with Shaq and Wade because he would be taking shots away from those two who are much more talented players. He would not defer to to them in crunch time.

He would not be praised in San Antonio either if he took some of those shots because their coach was on TV the other night praising how well his team knew their roles. Paul would not fit into a system that ran the ball through Tim or Tony. No way he would allow himself to be a third option.

He would not be praised in Detroit either because he is a bad defender.

No offense but Celtics fan seem to think a lot more highly of their players (some of them)then the rest of the world does. Paul is a very good player and I would love to have him on my team (I even mentioned that on our board) but he isn't in the same league as those players who have won championships mentioned above.

Hawks fans are doing the same thing with Josh Smith here. They get so excited because he can dunk and block shots that they have us winning in the playoffs because of it. IMO Childress has more potential to be a better All around player.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

HawksFan8 said:


> Paul would not be beloved if he played with Shaq and Wade because he would be taking shots away from those two who are much more talented players. He would not defer to to them in crunch time.
> 
> He would not be praised in San Antonio either if he took some of those shots because their coach was on TV the other night praising how well his team knew their roles. Paul would not fit into a system that ran the ball through Tim or Tony. No way he would allow himself to be a third option.
> 
> ...


1. Paul takes far less shots than Dwayne Wade and defers more to Antoine Walker than Wade does to Shaq.
2. Coach Pop said the team runs better when Parker looks for his own shots rather than trying to be unselfish. Pierce is an all around better player than Ginobilli and takes less shots.
3. Pierce is a better defender than Billups or Hamilton.
4. Childress is a stiff and a wasted pick. Ron Mercer comes to mind.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

SamIam said:


> Lebron is already a better playmaker than Paul and is already more unguardable but the level of his play really tailed off again at the end of the year whereas Paul stepped it up a notch. In the last month of the season - Paul>Lebron. I suspect it has to do more with maturity than character but time will tell. Lebron is definitely not top 10 .... YET. Everybody knows how good he is going to be so they are willing to overrate him now.


In the last month of the season, LeBron stepped up his game (32/10/7).


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

SamIam said:


> I think Pierce would be a much better fit in Houston with Van Gundy and Yao. Pierce gets no credit for his defense because he doesn't put up much effort on that end consistently in the regular season. However, he is a far superior defender than T-Mac - especially come playoff time. T-Mac weighs 210 lbs and gets pushed around. Pierce is a solid 235.
> 
> One more example of Pierce's greatness - Game 6 against Indiana. I know he imploded at the end But here is a reminder of his performance:
> 
> ...


OK, a few things

1) T-Mac hasn't been 210lbs in years, he weighs 230 these days. Pierce has more mass because he's shorter (6'6" to T-Mac's 6'9"), but there's nothing willowy about McGrady.

2) Did you watch the playoffs? T-Mac gave Dirk Nowitzki fits. Paul Pierce can't even do that in his dreams. Yes, Pierce can play solid D when he wants to. T-Mac can play lockdown D when he wants to. And since joining van Gundy's team he's wanted to.

3) Spare me the ballhog nonsense. Houston runs van Gundy's offense just like the coach asks. T-Mac takes the shots because that's what he's asked to do. Who's supposed to be shooting? Witherspoon? Howard? Padgett?

4) Houston's loss was the mirror image of Indiana's victory. NBA referees in the Houston series suddenly decided that moving screens were illegal, and called them incessantly. When van Gundy complained he was fined 100k, as David Stern got on his moral hobby horse and declared the play illegal. How many of those calls went against Indiana? Which lived off that play all series long. Houston got screwed as badly as Boston did. It makes neither Pierce nor McGrady a "loser". And neither is a "ballhog". No matter what the haters say.

5) I like P-2. I'd still trade him for T-Mac in a heartbeat. McGrady is better.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HawksFan8 said:


> Hawks fans are doing the same thing with Josh Smith here. They get so excited because he can dunk and block shots that they have us winning in the playoffs because of it. IMO Childress has more potential to be a better All around player.


Hawks fans aren't the only ones. I was desperately hoping that Ainge would take Cleveland's offer of the tenth pick for Jiri & 24 last year so that he could get Smith. He was my second favourite high schooler last year (after Big Al), and I had visions of Boston getting them both. Childress is _slightly_ better than Smith, and three years older. He doesn't have Josh's upside. Josh has a very level head on his shoulders (in the flow of the game). He does a lot of the little things that most 18 year olds don't. With the sort of polish he'll get by going straight to the show, the kid has a bright future. He _will_ be better than Marvin Williams. You guys got a gem, enjoy him.


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