# Not tough enough?



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Barkley says we're not serious contenders because we aren't tough enough. Mind you, the last time we went deep into the playoffs was with Van Exel on the team, a tough, vocal leader who was cold-blooded down the stretch. 

I don't think we aren't contenders, but he has a point. I'd like to see a lot more passion out of this team. It's not our style to get psyched, etc. after a big bucket, but other than Dirk's occasional finger waving, our Owner seems more into it than any player. This sounds like crap given our record, but he had a point. I guess I took it and ran with it. 

I think a big example was obviously Miller charging Harris, and nothing happening as far as some kind of retaliation. I heard earlier on this board, I think tristan said it, that he doesn't want us to be the "soft white boys" again. Me neither. I'm not referring to race or anything like that, we just don't have the...."it". Part of that would be beating who you're supposed to. Part of that would be interior defense. I don't think, since we've had Van Exel, that we've had that "attitude", I guess you'd call it. 

Thoughts?


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

I'd like to see a big bodied brusier here, I want to see Nellie go after Madsen for the LLE this offseason

I'd like to see Josh turn almost "cocky", but not be known around the league for his cockiness. Make sense? Like he'll be the guy who comes to our players side if they get hurt. It would make sense, as he's our defensive stopper.

I think a big part of it was Dampier being out, I mean who would go after Miller, Dirk? Howard? Daniels? Finley? Didn't think so. Dampiers our big guy who will step up, as he's massive

But in the years to come, hopefully DJ will become the big bruiser


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

_Dre_ said:


> Barkley says we're not serious contenders because we aren't tough enough. Mind you, the last time we went deep into the playoffs was with Van Exel on the team, a tough, vocal leader who was cold-blooded down the stretch.
> 
> I don't think we aren't contenders, but he has a point. I'd like to see a lot more passion out of this team. It's not our style to get psyched, etc. after a big bucket, but other than Dirk's occasional finger waving, our Owner seems more into it than any player. This sounds like crap given our record, but he had a point. I guess I took it and ran with it.
> 
> ...


 :yes: :yes: :yes:


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

It wasn't a dirty screen.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Peja Vu said:


> It wasn't a dirty screen.


 That might be true, it might not've been intentional, but the way it looked, the way the crowd reacted, Harris' reaction, that's cause for someone on our team to do something. It wasn't a shot at Miller so much as it was an example of us not showing any passion.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Peja Vu said:


> It wasn't a dirty screen.


I don't think thats the exact point _Dre_ was making, what I interpreted it as was that we need some tough guys to come in and have our back. If Brad Miller did that to Jamaal Tinsley, you'd have the Pacers guys backing them up.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

It was nt intentional until Brad Miller followed through with his elbow...but it gave us the inspiration to actually start playing...we are a bunch of pansies though, thats why I was so pissed when we traded NVE away...


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## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> It was nt intentional until Brad Miller followed through with his elbow...but it gave us the inspiration to actually start playing...we are a bunch of pansies though, thats why I was so pissed when we traded NVE away...


I was more pissed when we traded Raja Bell then NVE in regards to this certain situation. He stepped up for the Mavs in everything including to Ron Artest lol. Finley use to do that for us but I do not see that anymore. I agree 100% with Theo on Howard. I think he could be that type of player as well as Quis. They both seem like humble young players but they now are becoming veterans and they need to have a swaggar to them that will rub off on the team.


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## Eurcides (Feb 25, 2005)

The Mavs are what they are. That said I don't blame any of the players on this current roster for not taking the retalitory "hard foul" on the opposing team. Cuban and the Nelsons have had a revolving door for players these past 3-4 years and it is no surprise that none of the tough guy players are left.

Yeah the days of NVE, Najera and Bell were fun. Those guys didn't put up with crap. I think Big Don realizes this and was the first to jump to Devin's defense. He better since he had a hand in the type of players the Mavs have here now.

I did hear however from fans who went to the game that players like Jho and Quis were getting in Adlemans face and jawing at the Kings players. No fight ensued of course, but the young guns let their play be an example by posterizing Miller twice on dunks.


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## aussiewill (Jan 20, 2005)

the acquisition of KVH didn't help this lack of toughness we need someone with a rep to take some contact in the low post and make so moves.


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## SMDre (Jan 28, 2005)

I don't understand why everyone is saying that we have a team full of a bunch of punks? We do have a tough, battle tested team that won't hasitate to give a hard foul if it's needed. But now there is a questions of their toughness because TNT questions it. Guys that have not watch this team all season and judging them off past years. 

The only thing I ask is, what did you want them to do? Fight, do something to draw another T, or/and get ejected. I believe that they responded the way they should have. If this was the Mavs team of years past, they would have folded and mailed in the game. Instead they went on a run, and continued to push the basketball and drive to the hoop. I believe that everyone is begining to over react.



Peja Vu said:


> It wasn't a dirty screen.


The screen wasn't dirty, but the added elbow was a cheap shot, but this happens when you have players playing out of position or, in Bradley's case, guys that don't play much getting extended pt. They don't remember to call out screens.


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## NastyN44 (Jan 18, 2005)

F**k Charles Barkley! im tired of him talking stuff about the mavs! we will win the championship, mark my words!!!


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## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

here is my thoughts on our "toughness." as of late? josh howard has become the mavs enforcer. I don't know if you guys realize it or not but Miller's "screen" (which was illegal because he waited until the last second and leaned in with his shoulder and elbow) might have been in retaliation for josh howard's "hard foul" on maurice evans about 2 mins earlier. 

(4:32) [DAL] Howard Foul: Shooting (4 PF) 
(4:32) [DAL] Finley Substitution replaced by D. Harris 
(4:32) [SAC 71-66] Evans Free Throw 1 of 2 (8 PTS) 
(4:32) [SAC 72-66] Evans Free Throw 2 of 2 (9 PTS) 


On this particular play evans was going to go up for a dunk and josh REALLY CLOBBERED HIM. I mean the local game announcers thought he was going to get a flagrant at first. He really let Evans have it. 

So then right after that guess what? 

devin had came into the game. And miller just waited and clobbered him. 

But that wasn't the end of it. In the fourth quarter Bradley clobbered miller two times. I mean really let him have it. Miller went up for a layup and bradley tried to take his head off. There was no foul called but after this sequence brad miller wasn't smilling anymore. 

(8:38) [DAL] Daniels Layup Shot: Missed Block: Miller (2 BLK) 
(8:35) [SAC] Miller Rebound (Off:2 Def:12) 
(8:25) [SAC] Miller Layup Shot: Missed Block: Bradley (3 BLK) 


Both Daniels and bradley took "shots" (that they got away with prolly because of what miller did to harris) at miller and were given blocks. 

They both bowed the hell outta him and had him penned under the basket. 


Now mind you. Josh is fearless. He got a tech against utah (in a much more physical game) after he dunked on raja bell and bell pushed him on the way back down the court. howard didn't back down. He got right up in his mug and pushed him hard as heck. 

(3:02) [DAL 94-79] Howard Dunk Shot: Made (18 PTS) Assist: Armstrong (2 AST) 
(3:02) [UTH] Bell Foul: Double Technical (2 PF) 
(3:02) [DAL] Howard Substitution replaced by Daniels 


Armstrong had to pull josh away from bell cause he was pissed.

Josh has been doing this more and more. He's our energy guy and he don't take no crap off of anyone. 

bradley isn't that strong but those bows are razor sharp and he used them against miller.

I think the mavs "soft label" is overexaggerated these days. We could use a real enforcer though. Someone who is really big and strong (d.j.) and can whoop some butt (d.j) and has a blackbelt (d.j.) lol.

Naw seriously we need a rugged pf. that's why I hated to see fortson go. You best believe he would have slung miller to the floor and served his 2 game suspension with pride


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## aussiewill (Jan 20, 2005)

Dirk has stepped it up this year too and it may be because we go rid of one wussy white guy named Na$h. Mavs are definately tougher and we can see that on the defensive end.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

You guys just need a tough nosed defensive minded big man on your team. Like Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert, Antonio Davis. Probaly should have kept Steve Nash too. I'd still rank you guys behind Miami and San Antonio for sure, but the Mavericks could probaly take the Suns or Sonics or anyone else, maybe not Houston though.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

I thought the comment by Barkley was dumb. Erick Dampier is the tough guy. And why really do you need a tough guy to win a championship. Josh plays tough, Armstrong does too, and Dirk sometimes too. All you need is a Mark Madsen type player.


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

Charles Barkley is Maverick hating A-hole and has been for years. The next intelligent thing he has to say will be his first.


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## aussiewill (Jan 20, 2005)

^You will be waiting a while to see Barkely make a smart comment, he has the intellegence of a steroid using hyperactive sex deprived brain dead muel.


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