# Why aren't the Cavs doing anything?



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Have they just gotten lazy this offseason or what but they're just standing pat for some reason.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

1 We have no cap space
2 two of our best young players are FA's
3 no draft picks
4 lack of overall assets

this isn't exactlyy surprising: we rode one all time talent with maybe 4-5 good roleplayers and some really crappy vets to the Finals with A LOT of luck from the playoff seeding.

No 1 is Ferry's faults but we're still handicapped by Paxson's literraly terrible reign as GM (reason for 3 and 4).

Hopefully we can add a piece like Blatche or Navarro w/o losing one of our FA's but I knew this was going to be a tough offseason as Ferry does not have a lot of work with.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think also the emergence of Gibson has hamstrung us as well. Because if you want to be complacent, you can just be like "let's see what a year of dan starting can yield" instead of being really aggressive in the trade market.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> 1 We have no cap space
> 2 two of our best young players are FA's
> 3 no draft picks
> 4 lack of overall assets
> ...



Why haven't Sasha and Varejo been signed yet?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Jizzy said:


> Why haven't Sasha and Varejo been signed yet?


Dan Fegan


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> Dan Fegan



Who?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Jizzy said:


> Who?


AV's agent: one of the most notorius in the biz


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> AV's agent: one of the most notorius in the biz



Ah, thanks.

Man, losing AV would be a killer. Not any word on his contract status?


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## Krakista (Apr 13, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> 1 We have no cap space
> 2 two of our best young players are FA's
> 3 no draft picks
> 4 lack of overall assets


In addition, I think they have 3 bad contracts. Those of Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, and Donyell Marshall. Annually, their combined salaries equal or cost more than Jermaine O'Neal's.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

More than just those 3. Eric Snow is getting 14 million over the next 2 years (worse contract than Marshall or Jones). Ilgauskas is getting 21 million over the next 2 years and a player option for another 11.5 for the third year, which he'll take of course.

What's worse, the Cavs roster is mediocre, but not bad enough to put them into the lottery, so they'll never have a good draft pick unless they trade for one... and who are they going to trade away for a lottery pick?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^The problem is Lebron. He was good so early the team didn't have a chance to accumulate more draft talent.

Consider you add him to a 17 win core, you have ALOT of gaps to fill and blowing the last lottery pick in the LBJ era on Luke Jackson killed this team. We would have been better off if it took LBJ 2-3 years before he started growing into his game. 

There is some hope with young talent like Gibson, Sasha, AV developing...


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> ^The problem is Lebron. He was good so early the team didn't have a chance to accumulate more draft talent.
> 
> Consider you add him to a 17 win core, you have ALOT of gaps to fill and blowing the last lottery pick in the LBJ era on Luke Jackson killed this team. We would have been better off if it took LBJ 2-3 years before he started growing into his game.
> 
> There is some hope with young talent like Gibson, Sasha, AV developing...


Take Lebron off this team and is there any worse roster in the league? I mean the only guy with anywhere close to star "potential" is Gibson who was a second round pick and didn't get PT till the playoffs.

Z, AV, Gooden and Sasha are decent starters but nothing more (i.e. what I call value neutral players - essentially average: better then there counterparts on one team but equaled out by counterparts on other teams who are clearly better) and then the crap just starts pouring in with guys like Hughes, Snow, Marshall, Jones. Let's compare them to say a team like the 76ers: Igoudala is better then the rest of our cast and so is probably Miller and then they have lottery picks, etc. The Lakers suck w/o Kobe but Odom is better then any of our rest. So frustrating. Still even though Ferry's FA signings have been a bust we're still living in the nightmare of the Paxson era: you can't bomb lottery pick year after year plus trade away first rounders, AND give fat contracts to scrubs and make it. Imagine if the lottery balls didn't fall our way (i.e. Memphis, Boston this year) and I wonder seriously if Cleveland would still have an NBA francshise


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm not even sure of the strategy that we are taking to develop this team anymore....


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Only thing Cleveland has of value is some expirings worth about 11 million.Noone is giving you much for that and if they do it's going to be something they don't want.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Whatever happened to Donyell Marshall? The guy was playing great his first couple of games in Cleveland, avergaed like 12/6 and had a great series against Detroit in 06 but has really fallen off here. Damn, this was the same guy who hit 12 threes in a game and now can hardly make layups.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Jizzy said:


> Whatever happened to Donyell Marshall? The guy was playing great his first couple of games in Cleveland, avergaed like 12/6 and had a great series against Detroit in 06 but has really fallen off here. Damn, this was the same guy who hit 12 threes in a game and now can hardly make layups.


He's old and he plays older then his age


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The Celtics just made a move today which will make the Cavs inactivity this summer even more glaring. Now in addition to having to beat deep teams like the Pistons and Bulls, Lebron has to go through not one superstart team(Shaq, Wade) but two(KG, Pierce, Ray).

Grrrr--r-reee--aaaa---tt.

The Cavs need to do whatever they can to get Jason Kidd...NOW.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I don't see how we beat Boston this year if they get KG. They'll have no depth but who cares: Rondo, KG, Perkins, Pierce, and Allen is one hell of a starting 5


Really wonder how that team will be in the long run as they are depending a lot on very highly paid over 30 year old stars but for the next two years they're going to have fun in bean town


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Unbelievable the Celts are getting KG for that. Jefferson is OK, but he doesn't have anywhere near KG upside..and Green while a nice prospect, has done nothing. The Ratliff expiring is a big value though...we couldn't match that. Still seems like McHale is doing his old franchise a favor...

At this point, from a talent perspective, the Cavs are like 4th in the East...and that's assuming upstart teams like the Raptors don't get any better


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Unbelievable the Celts are getting KG for that. Jefferson is OK, but he doesn't have anywhere near KG upside..and Green while a nice prospect, has done nothing. The Ratliff expiring is a big value though...we couldn't match that. Still seems like McHale is doing his old franchise a favor...
> 
> At this point, from a talent perspective, the Cavs are like 4th in the East...and that's assuming upstart teams like the Raptors don't get any better


From a talent perspective, we very well might have been 4th in the East _last _year. 

I do have faith that Doc Rivers can devise a way to not make this work, though. I can just feel it. But this does highlight the difference between Danny Ferry and a lot of the other GMs in the league. It's pretty obvious that we have little to work with as far as tradeable assets, but I do feel like a more creative GM could figure out a way to get something done. I don't think Danny Ferry is dumb by any means, but I sometimes wonder about whether or not he has the creativity to be a truly successful GM.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Damn the Celts bench is weeakkkk: no backup PG or C. A rookie Glen Davis and a second year Leon Power at the forward spots. Then you got Tony Allen, mr. criminal with a bad knee


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^Financially, the Celts are gonna be in some serious pain.

KG wants a 5 year 125 million $ extension (currently he makes $22 mill)
Ray Ray makes $16 million a year
Pierce makes $16+ million a year

In fact they have 3 of the top 18 paid players in the entire NBA. Those 3 guys alone put them over the luxury tax limit. Consider then they are taxed dollar for dollar for every other player they put on the roster...that KG extension is gonna be mighty expensive for their ownership. 

That's championship or bust mentality right there


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Supposedly that's the mentality Gilbert is supposed to have.

This is like Miami getting Shaq to win a title type of move. The only counter for the Cavs would be getting Jason Kidd or Kobe Bryant.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

cavs are waiting for free agency to calm down. all Ferry can do now is try to keep his current talent at respectable cost and add peripheral talent on the cheap.

they still have their exceptions to use correct? i think they'll have to split their MLE and take a gamble with some minimum contracts. 

the guy that comes immediately to mind for me is former cav dajuan wagner. i think the guy is back up to speed and the cavs need guys to put the ball in the hoop for lebron. smush parker should also be closelt considered. 

they need a wily, defensive vet so they should also go after ruben patterson. dijon thompson and darius rice also need to be looked at.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i'm just happy that the raps also didn't have a draft pick or cap space yet added to a deep team:

Kapono
Delfino
Baston
Jamario Moon (brian colangelo looking to find a diamon in the rough, as cut by sam mitchell, is going to be fun to watch)
Ujiri - a new assistant GM and top international scout 
Prentizis - to continue developing in europe
and still need to sign another player

oh yeah, cavs need to look at singleton too.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Navarro going to the Grizzlies - nice job Ferry :thumbdown: 

It would be pretty unbelievable if Ferry did absolutely nothing this offseason outside of resigning Pavs and AV. Actually, it wouldn't, because all he did last year was resign Gooden.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Navarro going to the Grizzlies - nice job Ferry :thumbdown:
> 
> It would be pretty unbelievable if Ferry did absolutely nothing this offseason outside of resigning Pavs and AV. Actually, it wouldn't, because all he did last year was resign Gooden.


Huh? What are they giving up for him?

Blah this offseason continues to blow big chunks. I can't wait to see the brilliant Mike Brown start Hughes for 50 games next season before realizing Boobie is better then him.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> Huh? What are they giving up for him?
> 
> Blah this offseason continues to blow big chunks. I can't wait to see the brilliant Mike Brown start Hughes for 50 games next season before realizing Boobie is better then him.


http://www.realgm.net/src_wiretap_archives/47468/20070803/navarro_to_memphis/

Rumor is that Memphis is trading a conditional 1st rounder for him

Another trade Ferry reportedly "*tried*" to make happen that slips through.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Perhaps Ferry thinks the team is good enuogh and that draft picks alone in the future will be enough. Scary thought.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

In fairness, this is probably a trade Ferry shouldn't have made, i.e. giving up a 1st rounder for Navarro. That is a little steep. 

Still he needs to do something to improve this team, even if it's just hiring an offensive guru as an assistant coach. It's just bizarre that we are the ONLY team in the entire NBA to do absolutely nothing - draft, FA, trade - every other team at least did something at this point...


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Looks like Ferry is looking for a quality big AND a starting quality PG in exchange for Gooden. That's not realistically going to happen IMO...he needs to get over thinking he can clearly win every deal - every deal isn't gonna be a Flip Murray transaction...



> After getting close to a trade with the Sacramento Kings and San Antonio Spurs that would've landed Mike Bibby last month, the sides have stopped serious discussions. League sources said the Cavs have made it known that they will not trade Drew Gooden or be involved in a sign-and-trade with Varejao unless they get a quality big man in return. Which is why the rights to Argentine big man Luis Scola were in play in the Bibby talks that involved Gooden.


http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/

How sad is it that Ferry is also looking to sign Troy Hudson...



> The latest free agent whom the Cavs have contacted with some interest is Troy Hudson, whose $12 million buyout of his contract with the Minnesota Timberwolves became official Friday.
> 
> Hudson, a 10-year veteran who averaged 5.9 points and 2.1 assists last year, would play for the NBA minimum and is interested in coming to the Cavs.
> 
> ''Troy would have great interest in the Cavs,'' said Bill Neff, Hudson's agent. ''I hope they kick the tires on him and see if he can help.''


This offseason is depressing


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Brandname said:


> From a talent perspective, we very well might have been 4th in the East _last _year.
> 
> I do have faith that Doc Rivers can devise a way to not make this work, though. I can just feel it. But this does highlight the difference between Danny Ferry and a lot of the other GMs in the league. It's pretty obvious that we have little to work with as far as tradeable assets, but I do feel like a more creative GM could figure out a way to get something done. I don't think Danny Ferry is dumb by any means, but I sometimes wonder about whether or not he has the creativity to be a truly successful GM.


Bulls, Pistons, Cavs, Spurs. Those teams don't make creative trades. 

Bulls put in their bid for KG with Thomas, Sefo, Noah, Brown's expiring for Garnett. No bite.

Look at those teams, definitely the class of the league quite a bit. 

Pistons made the Sheed trade that put them over the top. 

Bulls are looking for striking Camby or Sheed now. Cavs are looking for Bibby. They aren't going to mortgage everything for those players, but they are looking for a nice deal where they don't give up much, and get up to contender status.

Isiah on the other hand has made a crap team. Going after Curry, Crawford, Richardson, Francis, Rose, Marbury, Randolph and whaever else comes available.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I think we might have to wait till next season where we have a bunch of bloated contracts that start looking attractive because there lengths become short. Even Hughe's albatross will be similar to Francis's this year.

I fear we're simply going to tread water this year and hope Boobie improves at the pg


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

How is it that Pavlo isn't signed yet?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Looks like Bibby wants to be in Cleveland:



> Bibby’s thoughts on where he wants to be? Well, one of his brothers says he’s either going to end up with the Heat or the Cavaliers. But Bibby himself wants to be in Cleveland (Ichiro has a confused look on his face right now).


http://logan-logsblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/mike-bibby-wants-to-be-cavalier.html


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Looks like Bibby wants to be in Cleveland:
> 
> 
> 
> http://logan-logsblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/mike-bibby-wants-to-be-cavalier.html


Yeah, I was wondering how reliable of a source that was myself. I haven't heard of the site, so I don't know.

If true, that would be very good for us.


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## fuzznuts (May 23, 2006)

I think AV's price is going up,
you think he'd be a good fit in LA (clips)


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

fuzznuts said:


> I think AV's price is going up,
> you think he'd be a good fit in LA (clips)


How so?


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> How so?


cause brand is out


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

cima said:


> cause brand is out


They have cap room?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Posey just signed with the Celts for $3MM a year...amazing we couldn't beat that offer. 

I'm getting really depressed by this offseason


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Another one bites the dust. Posey would have been a good add but I'm not sure he's worth 3million


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

3million? I heard it was worth 7 and 7.5 million for two years?


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

If your team fails to trade for Bibby, would you guys be happy if Cavs trade Gooden and someone (to fill salaries) for Andre Miller?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Zuca said:


> If your team fails to trade for Bibby, would you guys be happy if Cavs trade Gooden and someone (to fill salaries) for Andre Miller?


Yes: I might actually prefer Miller because he's bigger and can guard the two spot more effectively then Bibby. A Boobie/Miller backcourt (though obviously not all the time) could be used a lot more then than a Boobie/Bibby backcourt


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

Zuca said:


> If your team fails to trade for Bibby, would you guys be happy if Cavs trade Gooden and someone (to fill salaries) for Andre Miller?


Absolutely, Miller is a pass first point guard that can also rebound and start the fast break, and if I'm not mistaken has developed a decent mid range game, I know he can't shoot the three that well, but with boobie and lebron (if he keeps shooting like he is in the fiba tourney) should allow miller to get tons of assists but still be able to hit an open jumper on occasion.

Does philly have another point guard they are grooming for the future that they can afford to give up miller though?


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

Okay, I checked their roster, the only other listed point guard for philly is kevin ollie, to be honest, there is a chance that I might be an upgrade over kevin ollie (maybe they'd want snow back)

we might have to have a third team involved to make it work, but I'm sure that philly would love either our trade exception or wesley to help cut salary, they are way over the cap with the bulk of webber's contract still on them this year.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

LostInGeorgia said:


> Okay, I checked their roster, the only other listed point guard for philly is kevin ollie, to be honest, there is a chance that I might be an upgrade over kevin ollie (maybe they'd want snow back)
> 
> we might have to have a third team involved to make it work, but I'm sure that philly would love either our trade exception or wesley to help cut salary, they are way over the cap with the bulk of webber's contract still on them this year.


Agreed. Here is my idea:

Cleveland trade Drew Gooden and Ira Newble to Philadelphia;
Philadelphia trade Andre Miller to Cleveland; Willie Green and Kevin Ollie to Phoenix;
Phoenix trade Marcus Banks to Philadelphia and Eric Piatkowski to Cleveland;

Phoenix can talk to NY to make them take Ollie and give Dickau to Phoenix, since Phoenix is more of a offensive system where Dickau fits better than Ollie. I doubt they'll refuse, since they're going to waive Dickau but hasn't done yet because they're still trying to do some kind of two for one trade to avoid waiving him.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Andre Miller is hardly the point guard this team needs.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

While I'd love to get a Kidd to play with LeBron, Miller is just not the type of PG that'd fit will well with the Cavs. Miller while being a pass first pg is not a full court pg. I just don't think he has the ability to turn the Cavs offense up and as a half court player, his lack of shooting does not help the Cavs. IMO.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I don't even think he's a pass first point guard at this stage of his career.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Another FA bites the dust. Ruben Patterson just got signed by the Clippers.

Since they used part of their MLE on Brevin Knight, i'm assuming that means they got him for less than $3MM. Would have added some decent depth to the roster...from Ohio also. 

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47832/20070829/clippers_sign_ruben_patterson/


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