# Draft Day Thread



## Porn Player

... here is our Game 7 of the Finals, the pinnacle of every Raptors year, it's DRAFT DAY 

Do or Die. 

Make your choice and stick around to vent about who BC actually takes. 

For me... It's Knight at 5 and we will somehow end up with another lottery pick where we will take Biyombo. 

I'll be honest, I'd be pretty happy with any of the top end guys.


----------



## speedythief

If the first four are Irving, Williams, Knight, and Kanter, which seems like the most likely way it will shake out, I don't know what we'll do.


----------



## Porn Player

Val is getting a lot of hype as going Top 4.


----------



## UD40

I've heard Kemba, Knight, Thompson now I'm hearing Bismack. If I'm you guys, I'd stay away from Bismack, too many question marks, and it was released today that he has a medical red flag on his back.


----------



## seifer0406

I would be surprised if we pick Biyombo at 5. We already have undersized guys that can play the 5 and it makes no sense to add him. I've cooled down on Kemba Walker as he reminds me too much of TJ Ford. If Kanter goes to Utah at 3 then theres no doubt that we'll either end up with Knight or Jonas and I'm fine with either one.

Another guy that we might take is Jan Veseley.


----------



## Luke

I don't know why, but I like Kemba on this team. I feel like he could give you guys a real player at the lead guard position, and then you draft a stud next year.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Kemba or Leonard would be good fits.


----------



## lucky777s

I think there will be some sort of trade in front of us to gum things up for us.

Irving, Williams, Knight, Kanter is the worst case for the Raptors. BC seems locked into Biyombo at this point if that happens. Hard to see how they justify that when we had similar types in Pape Sow and Pops Mensah-Bonsu and even Jerome Moiso before. And BC was proclaiming that Alabi addressed our D and rebounding issues last summer and that he only slipped due to health concerns. 

some rumours have UTA taking Kanter at 3 and Val going 4 to CLE. I personally don't buy UTA passing up Knight for Kanter. I think they would only pass on Knight for Williams. But if Knight is there we HAVE to take him.


----------



## Luke

I don't even know what your guys' draft situation is outside of the number 5, but somebody needs to pick up Tristen Thompson (sp?). Dude has an insanely quick first step and is one of the few players in this draft that has real potential.


----------



## ballocks

such an important night for this franchise. hearing rumours today about biyombo at 5 is really irritating. i don't know what i would do. feels like a practical joke. 

leonard, burks, fredette, walker, morris's are all off the board. probably no point in even talking about them anymore. 

brandon knight is the guy, though. i've felt the same way since even before harrison barnes pulled out: if we can come out of this draft with knight or williams, perhaps this team can be salvaged and the last 12 months not a waste. 

the fact we're stuck at 5 and are unable/refuse to move up is disgraceful, though, especially if derrick williams is available at #3. i mean, if it goes 1) irving 2) kanter 3) williams 4) valanciunas 5) biyombo, i don't know if the ground will survive my fall. 

peace


----------



## NeoSamurai

Im hoping for a Calderon trade to free up a Knight/Kemba pick....just saying.


----------



## scdn

Apparently Felton and Tony Parker are being offered up for high picks in this draft.


----------



## Porn Player

Irving. 
Williams. 
Kanter.

Already taken, Cavs won't take another PG so we should get Knight. 

I am going wild here.


----------



## Porn Player

We took Jonas Val. 


I like him but we could have had Knight. Stupid bull****.


----------



## NeoSamurai

Screw Colangelo....


----------



## Mr_B

I've officially lost faith in BC after this pick


----------



## Porn Player

Find me in the 'I give up' aisle. I'll be holding a bottle of scotch.


----------



## NeoSamurai

Brandon Knight is gonna be the Granger/Graham pick all over again....Cant believe Knight slipped....


----------



## speedythief

Wait what?


----------



## Porn Player

What the hell is going on? ...


----------



## speedythief

This draft is nutty.


----------



## Porn Player

I'm hating the Jonas pick less. Knight and Walker really can't have impressed all that much to have Knight fall to 8 and Walker to God knows where.

EDIT - I still wish we could get Knight and Prince off the Pistons.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

bc shud of been fired, the only good that can come of this pick is trading bargnani


----------



## Porn Player

Bobcats have walked away with Kemba and Biyombo. That makes me a little jealous. Maybe it's just the hype though.


----------



## Wade County

Jonas Val is a good pick, but its a shame you guys cant look forward to him next season. Hopefully not a 'Fran' situation.


----------



## Porn Player

I've had some time to calm down. 

I am happy with the pick, I was just let down we didn't take Knight. 

That said, another sucky year, Myck Kabongo lands on our laps and pow our team will be exciting as hell to watch in 2012/13.


----------



## Luke

He won't be playing next year, correct?


----------



## Turkish Delight

Bargnani and Jonas will be like Duncan and the Admiral. Seriously though, **** Colangelo and **** this franchise.


----------



## speedythief

VanillaPrice said:


> He won't be playing next year, correct?


Up in the air right now. Colangelo says he could come over now or it could take three years.


----------



## Wade County

3 years would be a tough pill to swallow...


----------



## Luke

I hope for Porn's drinking problem's sake that he comes over this year.

But really though, as Wade County said, 3 years would be pretty rough.


----------



## seifer0406

I'll be on board with this pick if it means the end to the Bargnani experiment. If we are moving forward with Bargnani and Val then this is a colossal failure of a plan.


----------



## Porn Player

I've slept on it. And I was still bummed when I woke up and checked all of the NBA.com spiel and realised we still haven't made any moves. I am right with Seifer in hoping this spells the end of Bargnani, if it doesn't and were going with Bargs and Val, I may search for an NBDL team. (afterall, the talent may be better) 

Knight has also come out and said he is pissed that teams passed on him. Don't worry we're right there with ya Brandon! ... 

As it stands now, I won't be renewing my league pass for this team.


----------



## speedythief

Still not sure if we saw an example of our management swinging for the fences and taking a high-risk high-reward player, or doubling-down on an international strategy that has failed.


----------



## Porn Player

I think BC was as surprised as everyone when the Cavs took Tristan Thompson 4th and went BPA from his list instead of taking Knight. I think that was a mistake but that doesn't make Jonas a bad player, from everything I've heard the entire league was high on him and we are in dire need of a legit Centre. If he was coming over this year, I would be really looking forward to seeing how he transpires, it's just typical Raptors bull**** that nothing ever runs smoothly.


----------



## speedythief

BC's main selling point last night was that he kept getting calls and text messages from other league executives congratulating him on the pick. Ugh...


----------



## Porn Player

Yeah, just watched the presser. Definitely sounds like the kid won't be over 'till after this upcoming season. Although the buyout was said to be in place, so it sounded like it was possible for this to be pushed through. 

The official press release mentioned this would allow Bargnani to move to PF like he so wants. Misery. 

Just watched Jonas post-draft interview. Seems like a really nice kid, definitely can't knock his character nor the stats he has produced in the past couple of seasons.


----------



## speedythief

Yeah he's a good looking kid. Bright eyed and bushy tailed. Similar personality to Bargs (honest with a tinge of sarcasm).

The buyout is reportedly $2m over the $500k limit the Raptors can offer. Jonas would have to take that out of his rookie deal if he wants to come over right away (dunno if he can get an endorsement to cover it?). Sounds like he'll be with us season after next.


----------



## ballocks

i can't even think about his game or what he brings to the floor. at this point i'm not sure it really matters. i'm distracted by all the things that this _means_. not easy to be a fan of this team. there's hardly anything to cheer for.

i'm worried for the players who were at real sports last night. their view of the combative relationship between the team and its fans cannot possibly be healthy. if i were them, i'd want out myself. everything around this team is embroiled in hate, controversy, lies, acrimony, conflict, embarrassment, deceit, just straight up... *toxic*. i don't know anyone who'd want to do their job in that environment. 

peace


----------



## lucky777s

Well, what to say. Knight was there for us after UTA took Kanter. That was the safe pick. Could have given us a big guard, solid starter, good defender and shooter.

But many people were calling Val the guy who was supposed to become the best player from this draft. Supposedly the Spurs wanted him, but they also were said to target Murotic so who knows. Cavs passing to reach for Tristan was very disturbing.

Do I believe he will be strong enough to control the paint at either end in the nba? Not for several years, if ever. Some of what they say about him just says 'Biedrins' to me and that is not a top 5 pick. I think I like Val better than Biyombo though as Val's upside seems more legit.

I worry what this pick says to DD and Ed. They are in for another very long year and probably don't even get to meet their new 'teammate'. Going to be a huge adjustment for Val the following season. Kid is going to need major playing time and won't be ready for it.

Worst of all it seems there was no effort made to trade Bargs at all. BC thinks Casey will somehow find magic beans that turn Bargs into a good 2 way player and better rebounder as if Dirk wasn't a finished product by the time Casey got to DAL. With Calderon, Bargs, Barbosa, Kleiza, Val we are now more 'euro raptors' than ever. Some are even speculating Ed gets moved now.

Casey said Raps are targeting one of the big name C's on the market this summer but I don't see anyone choosing to come here. And what would we do with him next year if Val comes over. More strange 'team building' from BC.

Going to be a long year. Fans will be screaming for BC's head if Knight, Walker, Biyombo, or others after 5 have big years. When is the 2012 lotto anyway?


----------



## speedythief

Eric Koreen is reporting that the Raptors have reached a buyout agreement with Jonas Valanciunas that will see him spend another season in Lithuania before joining the Raptors for the 2012-13 season. With a lockout looming the timing of this is as good as it can be for this situation. IIRC his salary doesn't hit our cap if he's being paid by another team so it gives us a little more flex than we would've had otherwise- which isn't saying much.


----------



## lucky777s

Actually, I think the short season would have really benefited our rookie. He likely would not have hit the wall but still gotten the feel for an nba season and travel schedule and the size/speed/strength of players. Playing 45-50 games would have been many more than he has ever played in a year.
Very disappointing news.


----------



## Porn Player

A short season that means we don't have to endure 82 painful games is great news. 

Myck Kabongo 2012 campaign starts right here.


----------



## speedythief

What the hell is a Myck Kabongo? Sounds like classic Batman sound effect names.

We want Junior Barnes. 

Junior Barnes, you gunky!


----------



## seifer0406

With JV spending another year in Europe, I don't entirely buy BC's claim that he's not looking to move Bargnani and is planning on pairing Bargs with JV. Since the earliest that the pair can happen is in 2012, it wouldn't make sense to announce now that the Raptors are looking to move Bargnani. I can still see Bargs getting moved if he can put together a decent season and garner some interest from other teams.

As for Ed Davis while some are predicting him as being the odd man out I don't see it being so. He's going to see around 25-30 min next year either as the starting PF or the first big off the bench. We still only have 3 big man in the rotation unless we re-sign Reggie Evans. If Bargnani improves, perhaps we keep him and try him out with Val. If Bargs fail to impress this year, he will likely be moved before the 2013 season.

As for the point guard situation while I liked Knight I think the team will again struggle this year so we will get another crack at a PG next year with our draft pick. Even if we don't draft a PG next year, with guys like Felton and Flynn switching teams, I don't think it'll be too difficult for us to acquire a young PG through trades. DJ Augustin could be a guy that the Raptors can go after now that he is fighting playing time with Kemba Walker. Rodney Stuckey could be another guy although I'm not a big fan of his game.


----------



## c_dog

I think raps fan base have become so good at comforting ourselves when management obviously messed up. This was the worst possible thing that could have happened. Not only did BC reach for another unproven euro but he passed on proven gems like brandon knight and kemba walker when there was speculation that they might not even be available at #5(more so for knight). to make things worse we spent a high lottery pick on someone who isn't going to be here until a year later..


----------



## Luke

Right move or not, BC showed some big balls by drafting another Euro.


----------



## c_dog

VanillaPrice said:


> Right move or not, BC showed some big balls by drafting another Euro.


i can't remember the last time a highly touted euro big pans out.. really the only euro big who are legit stars are dirk and pau. pau is often criticized for mental toughness too. i just don't think teams should draft euro bigs hoping for a dirk anymore. most often they can't even stick in the nba. just a huge risk... and this is not some big balls moves.. this is BC, this is what he does. he is **** for euros.


----------



## lucky777s

The line between ballsy and stubbornly arrogant is so thin that its really tough to judge here. BC was certainly sounding more humble before he got his extension, but now he is back to his old 'don't question me I am the great BC' attitude. And even talking about some kind of 'win now' approach in what could be a great draft year after tanking in the worst draft year.

When you think about second round C's like DeAndre Jordan and MGasol and Asik and undrafted ones like Mozgov it does look like a reach at 5 for sure. Why did Gherardini not find us a gem like that in the second round. To me that was the greatest value he brought to the Raps and its been a bust.


----------



## Bogg

c_dog said:


> I think raps fan base have become so good at comforting ourselves when management obviously messed up. This was the worst possible thing that could have happened. Not only did BC reach for another unproven euro but he passed on proven gems like brandon knight and kemba walker when there was speculation that they might not even be available at #5(more so for knight). to make things worse we spent a high lottery pick on someone who isn't going to be here until a year later..


I don't think it's as disastrous as you're making it out to be. Kemba and Knight are both very nice combo guards, but neither projects to be perennial all-stars that you can build a team around. If Val pans out and can hold down the middle as a center he very well may be worth a one-year wait at the expense of the five games that Kemba or Knight may have made a difference in. It's not a fun idea for fans, but getting a big man and a higher pick in next years draft can set Toronto up for a very nice 2012 offseason.


----------



## Luke

c_dog said:


> i can't remember the last time a highly touted euro big pans out.. really the only euro big who are legit stars are dirk and pau. pau is often criticized for mental toughness too. i just don't think teams should draft euro bigs hoping for a dirk anymore. most often they can't even stick in the nba. just a huge risk... and this is not some big balls moves.. this is BC, this is what he does. he is **** for euros.


I never said it was a good or smart move, I said it was ballsy. It's ballsy because he's screwed this franchise over time and time again by drafting Euros that never panned out (Bargs), or by putting faith in Euros that haven't been able to produce, (Calderon) and yet he decided to use another top five pick on one. *That's* ballsy.

And I don't necessarily hate this move for you guys. Even if he doesn't come over this year, you guys were going to suck regardless of who you picked. And that shouldn't offend anyone because this roster simply isn't that talented. But, if Val can develop into a good starter in this league, the Raps suck next year and get good a pick in a worthwhile draft, (and don't blow it) then you guys finally have some pieces to move forward in the rebuilding plan. Neither Kemba or Knight could have taken you guys to the playoffs anyways.


----------



## Porn Player

I hope Myck Kabongo is International enough for BC.


----------



## Luke

Anyone want to fill me in on some of the top prospects that you guys are looking at for 2012? I don't follow college ball nearly as much as I follow the NBA, so while I know next year is supposed to be fantastic, I don't have a very clear picture as to why.


----------



## Porn Player

From 1-14 it looks like game changing talent. 

For us, we're looking at PG's and SF's. 

PGs - Myck Kabongo is from Toronto and is a highlight package of crazy dribbles, slick passes and a clean jumpshot. He's attending Texas next year. I'm bias because of where he is from but this is the PG I want.

Austin Rivers - Doc Rivers kid. Projected around 12 (that's how good this class is) ... He's insane and will be a multiple All Star in this league. Going to Duke. 

Marquis Teage - Jeff Teagues cousin if I'm not mistaken. The highest touted PG in the class and is going to Kentucky and we all know they produce talent at the PG. 

SFs - Harrison Barnes you will have heard of and should know all about. 

James McAdoo - Nephew of Bob McAdoo and this kid has it all. He is long and just looks in control of everything he does. A ridiculous talent and will be at NC with Harrison Barnes this year. Can't wait to see those two. 

Perry Jones you should know as he pulled out of this past class. 

Quincy Miller his new running mate at Baylor. Miller has the frame of Durant and plays a little like him too but doesn't quite have the polished outside J yet. Yet another stud. 

Michael Gilchrist is going to Kentucky. These NCAA games may be more exciting than the NBA. He is a defensive power already and he's still so young. Compared to Iggy and would fit with my Raptors beautifully. 

All of these are sure fire studs in this league. Just youtube any name from that list and the videos are unreal. Oh and every player I have mentioned would have been taken 1st in this past draft. 

Oh and I didn't even mention the number one prospect Anthony Davis (PF going to Kentucky)


----------



## Luke

Porn Player said:


> From 1-14 it looks like game changing talent.
> 
> For us, we're looking at PG's and SF's.
> 
> PGs - Myck Kabongo is from Toronto and is a highlight package of crazy dribbles, slick passes and a clean jumpshot. He's attending Texas next year. I'm bias because of where he is from but this is the PG I want.
> 
> Austin Rivers - Doc Rivers kid. Projected around 12 (that's how good this class is) ... He's insane and will be a multiple All Star in this league. Going to Duke.
> 
> Marquis Teage - Jeff Teagues cousin if I'm not mistaken. The highest touted PG in the class and is going to Kentucky and we all know they produce talent at the PG.
> 
> SFs - Harrison Barnes you will have heard of and should know all about.
> 
> James McAdoo - Nephew of Bob McAdoo and this kid has it all. He is long and just looks in control of everything he does. A ridiculous talent and will be at NC with Harrison Barnes this year. Can't wait to see those two.
> 
> Perry Jones you should know as he pulled out of this past class.
> 
> Quincy Miller his new running mate at Baylor. Miller has the frame of Durant and plays a little like him too but doesn't quite have the polished outside J yet. Yet another stud.
> 
> Michael Gilchrist is going to Kentucky. These NCAA games may be more exciting than the NBA. He is a defensive power already and he's still so young. Compared to Iggy and would fit with my Raptors beautifully.
> 
> All of these are sure fire studs in this league. Just youtube any name from that list and the videos are unreal. Oh and every player I have mentioned would have been taken 1st in this past draft.
> 
> Oh and I didn't even mention the number one prospect Anthony Davis (PF going to Kentucky)


Thanks big guy.

Yeah I know enough about Barnes, Rivers, and Jones, but I'm going to look into the other guys. Especially Kabongo since I have a rooting intrest in Texas, so that'll be good.

Should be a big year, hopefully you guys can land a stud.


----------



## MonkeyBallZJr

Porn Player said:


> From 1-14 it looks like game changing talent.
> 
> For us, we're looking at PG's and SF's.
> 
> PGs - Myck Kabongo is from Toronto and is a highlight package of crazy dribbles, slick passes and a clean jumpshot. He's attending Texas next year. I'm bias because of where he is from but this is the PG I want.
> 
> Austin Rivers - Doc Rivers kid. Projected around 12 (that's how good this class is) ... He's insane and will be a multiple All Star in this league. Going to Duke.
> 
> Marquis Teage - Jeff Teagues cousin if I'm not mistaken. The highest touted PG in the class and is going to Kentucky and we all know they produce talent at the PG.
> 
> SFs - Harrison Barnes you will have heard of and should know all about.
> 
> James McAdoo - Nephew of Bob McAdoo and this kid has it all. He is long and just looks in control of everything he does. A ridiculous talent and will be at NC with Harrison Barnes this year. Can't wait to see those two.
> 
> Perry Jones you should know as he pulled out of this past class.
> 
> Quincy Miller his new running mate at Baylor. Miller has the frame of Durant and plays a little like him too but doesn't quite have the polished outside J yet. Yet another stud.
> 
> Michael Gilchrist is going to Kentucky. These NCAA games may be more exciting than the NBA. He is a defensive power already and he's still so young. Compared to Iggy and would fit with my Raptors beautifully.
> 
> All of these are sure fire studs in this league. Just youtube any name from that list and the videos are unreal. Oh and every player I have mentioned would have been taken 1st in this past draft.
> 
> Oh and I didn't even mention the number one prospect Anthony Davis (PF going to Kentucky)


Good list, even outside of the most hyped guys from this highschool class there's a lot of gems to be had as well. How many of them are one and done's is another question. Let's also hope that the new CBA doesn't prevent these guys from entering next year or the 2012 draft will be just as terrible. I'd also add Bradley Beal to the list, he's a little undersize right now but if he grows a couple of inches, he'll be dynamite. Another Canadian Power forward to look out for is Khem Birch, who potentially may even be better then Tristan Thompson. Also Marquis Teague is Jeff Teague's little brother.


----------



## seifer0406

Realistically I will be satisfied if Jonas Valanciunas can eventually become a double double player that plays good defense. I don't expect allstar numbers out of him just like I don't expect allstar numbers from anyone not named Irving and Derrick Williams from this draft. It's called a weak draft for a reason. You have to kid yourselves if you think anyone in this draft outside of Williams and Irving has the potential to turn a franchise around. You're looking for role players and Valanciunas isn't necessarily worse of a risk than some of the other guys.


----------



## speedythief

^ So you'd be satisfied with him being one of the four current players who puts up a double-double in addition to playing good defense (Howard, Noah, Bogut, and Camby)? Yeah you have pretty low expectations.


----------



## seifer0406

speedythief said:


> ^ So you'd be satisfied with him being one of the four current players who puts up a double-double in addition to playing good defense (Howard, Noah, Bogut, and Camby)? Yeah you have pretty low expectations.


Heres a list of current guys that plays at the level that I hope JV can one day play at.

Bogut
Horford
Noah
Camby
Kendrick Perkins
Serge Ibaka
Nene
Roy Hibbert
Chris Kaman before injury
Marc Gasol
Andrew Bynum

If JV can play like any of those guys I would consider this pick worth a while. When I say double double I didn't mean it as a exact number. Anything close to that or a combination of one a bit more than the other would qualify in my books.


----------



## speedythief

Even if he is just a rich man's Primoz Brezec it is still a massive upgrade from what we've had lately.


----------



## Porn Player

MonkeyBallZJr said:


> Good list, even outside of the most hyped guys from this highschool class there's a lot of gems to be had as well. How many of them are one and done's is another question. Let's also hope that the new CBA doesn't prevent these guys from entering next year or the 2012 draft will be just as terrible. I'd also add Bradley Beal to the list, he's a little undersize right now but if he grows a couple of inches, he'll be dynamite. Another Canadian Power forward to look out for is Khem Birch, who potentially may even be better then Tristan Thompson. Also Marquis Teague is Jeff Teague's little brother.


Yeah throw in Beal, Jeremy Lamb, Sullinger and if were lucky even Andre Drummond to the mix. (I left them off due to them playing SG or PF/C) ... 

I haven't seen this Khem Birch kid, will keep an eye out. Where is he going as a freshman?

Andrew Wiggins is the only other Canadian I've seen get major publicity but he won't be ready for another couple of years.


----------



## MonkeyBallZJr

^ Khem Birch will be playing for Jamie Dixon at Pittsburg next fall. Initially he was part of the 2012 class where he was ranked like 3rd overall but reclassified to the 2011 class. He could have easily signed for any of the big name schools but Dixon is great at developing big man. Pittsburg also didn't lose any big name players and they were already a number 1 seed in the tourney this year, so with the addition of Birch they are going to do some damage next year (as long as they don't choke again). I'm pretty excited about Birch even more then I was about Thompson, he's a legit 6'9 with ridiculous athleticism, just needs to add some weight. I'm not sure if he will be a one and done but if DX has Thomas Robinson going just outside the lottery for 2012, then I have no doubt Birch has a chance to go in the lottery in a potentially stacked 2012 class. 

Andrew Wiggins really is the cream of a Canadian basketball scene that is just about to blow up, I got a chance to see him live in a local high school game and it is ridiculous how good and athletic he is at this age. Also I can't wait for both Tristan Thompson and Cory Joseph to do well and prove to all those who criticize the teams for picking them as early as they did.


----------



## ballocks

watched the mcdonald's all-american game a few weeks back and it really is a shocking high school class this year. next year's draft will be spectacular. 

michael gilchrist won me over. just a tremendous player. we'll see how he does at kentucky but i'd be glad to get him on the raptors right _now_.

kabongo's a little overrated (imo). mcadoo plays a lot bigger than he's listed. 

as for college, harrison barnes, obviously- i'm still shocked at his improvement over last season. goes to show how fast things can change for an 18 yr old... 

so i dunno. maybe too early to talk about this. 

peace


----------



## speedythief

Gonna be a long season, folks.

(There's always next next year)


----------



## c_dog

how is kendrick perkins a worthwhile pick? the dude sucks.. and clearly JV is not perkins in terms of playing style either.

honestly i rather have kemba walker.. basically a young jason terry. kemba walker would fit in this team really well. he's not the best playmaker but this team can use his scoring.


----------



## seifer0406

I wasn't aware that one of the better post defenders in the league "sucks". Theres a reason why OKC traded for him and why many viewed Perkins as the reason for Thunder's improvement this year in the playoffs and Boston's disappointing exit. As for style I don't see why JV couldn't work towards rebounding, shotblocking, and better defense. He is known for his rebounding more than his scoring. It's not like we have another 3 point shooting big on our hands.

If Kemba Walker becomes Jason Terry I would be quite disappointed. Players like Terry are a dime a dozen.


----------



## c_dog

seifer0406 said:


> I wasn't aware that one of the better post defenders in the league "sucks". Theres a reason why OKC traded for him and why many viewed Perkins as the reason for Thunder's improvement this year in the playoffs and Boston's disappointing exit. As for style I don't see why JV couldn't work towards rebounding, shotblocking, and better defense. He is known for his rebounding more than his scoring. It's not like we have another 3 point shooting big on our hands.
> 
> If Kemba Walker becomes Jason Terry I would be quite disappointed. Players like Terry are a dime a dozen.


i disagree. terry is a rarer talent compared to perkins, even if sixth man of the year candidates are a dime a dozen.

and for every person that blame perkin's departure for the celtics' disappointing exit, there are even more people who believe the celtics would have lost to the heat anyway. heat is a very good team and would have won the series regardless. and there are plenty of thunder fans who thought perkins was disappointing in the playoffs.. barely rebounded and couldn't slow down randalph and dirk at all. perkins doesn't belong in that list of guys that you listed. if JV turns out to be horford, nene, etc, then yes, this pick is worth it. if he turns out like perkins i would wish we had drafted walker/knight.


----------



## seifer0406

You can just ask some of the Boston fans around here and you'll understand Kendrick Perkins's value in their eyes. Quality low post defenders have more value in this league than combo guards. It's just how it is, why do you think big men on average gets paid more than guards? Because there are less bigs and more small players. I mean heck, we have seen guys like Barbosa, TJ Ford, Jerryd Bayless, Juan Dixon, Mike James on the team. All of them small guys that scores more than they passes. I have yet to see a Kendrick Perkins, a solid low post defender and rebounder put on a Raptor jersey. We'll have to go all the way back to the Antonio Davis, Charles Oakley days to find one of those.

This comparison between Kemba Walker and Terry is off base anyway. Jason Terry never played point guard in this league and Kemba Walker will not play SG because he's 6-1 in shoes. If you want to compare Kemba a better comparison would be our very own TJ Ford or guys like Brandon Jennings or Rodney Stuckey.


----------



## c_dog

seifer0406 said:


> You can just ask some of the Boston fans around here and you'll understand Kendrick Perkins's value in their eyes. Quality low post defenders have more value in this league than combo guards. It's just how it is, why do you think big men on average gets paid more than guards? Because there are less bigs and more small players. I mean heck, we have seen guys like Barbosa, TJ Ford, Jerryd Bayless, Juan Dixon, Mike James on the team. All of them small guys that scores more than they passes. I have yet to see a Kendrick Perkins, a solid low post defender and rebounder put on a Raptor jersey. We'll have to go all the way back to the Antonio Davis, Charles Oakley days to find one of those.
> 
> This comparison between Kemba Walker and Terry is off base anyway. Jason Terry never played point guard in this league and Kemba Walker will not play SG because he's 6-1 in shoes. If you want to compare Kemba a better comparison would be our very own TJ Ford or guys like Brandon Jennings or Rodney Stuckey.


while it's true the raps haven't had many tough defensive minded bigs, kendrick perkins is a guy who i'll gladly pass on. just not a fan of his game. i think boston fans miss kendrick a bit much in part because jeff green absolutely sucked. dude was terrible...

i think kemba walker will be better than TJ Ford. i say terry because he'll be more of a scorer than a true pg. he would be far from perfect but in this draft you just need to find a solid rotation guy.

I do think JV should become a better player than perkins. but i think collison is better than perkins too.


----------



## scdn

Jason Terry definitely played point guard for the Hawks at the beginning of his career.


----------



## Wade County

Raptors are doing what they should be doing - their best course of action is the all out tank job right now. Plenty of good players that will be in the 2011/2012 draft, Raptors need a top 5 pick to score either a) a low post banger or b) a quality swingman/SF.

You need to get better defensively before you'll really make the jump though.

You should definitely be running next season:

PG - J.Bayless
SG - D.DeRozan
SF - J.Johnson
PF - E.Davis
C - A.Bargnani

There's a fair bit of potential there, just will take a few lumps before it shows. 

Add Val in a year or two, plus a high quality 11/12 pick and you will make your ascension.


----------



## Porn Player

We will not be picking a low post banger next year. We'll be taking a SF or PG from next years draft class so it's ok even if we drop as low as 12/13/14 as the draft is that deep. Obviously, the higher the better though.

We will not be playing Bargnani at C next year. 

Val is coming over after 1 season. It's already been dealt with.


----------



## Wade County

^ Good news. So you suck for one more year, pick up a SF/PG and you're set to start the climb. Val and Bargs should be a decent PF/C combo. A Bryan Colangelo wet dream if you will.

I didnt think Bargs would be your C next year, but looking at your roster, I wasnt sure who else would be. Can Davis play Center? He seems too slight for mine?


----------



## Porn Player

We're looking at a C in free agency according to Casey and BC. 

But yeah, you've got the whole idea nailed. We suck for one more year and finally enter 2012/13 with a complete roster. We will be young but at least we will be exciting again, and it's been too long since that's been true. It's lucky for us that next years draft seems loaded with SFs and PGs, that's why the pick we get doesn't need to be Top 3. Although, I would love to snag Barnes if we did luck into Top 3. 

The only problem with this plan is that we have to endure next season. Our fans are the only ones hoping for an extended lockout.


----------



## lucky777s

A 40-50 game season next year would be perfect. Makes it more of a sprint than a marathon. Should see better, harder-fought games.

My Kemba Walker comparison is Ben Gordon. Scoring guards who can play the point a bit. Coming out of college I was much higher on Devin Harris than Gordon for the Raps because I could see more PG skill in Harris. Plus Harris was a big scorer in college. Struggled with his shot in pros because he was not the centerpiece like in college and had to learn the catch and shoot game vs. the rhythm dribble game.
I think Kemba will either be a better PG version of Gordon (good), or a poorer scoring version of Gordon (bad) if he can't make the really tough contested shots that Gordon has.

Raps need to land that true superstar wing or PG in next year's draft to have any hope of being an ECF type team in the next 4-5 years. The second year of college for someone like Barnes could make him ready to step in and explode immediately. If DD and Ed keep progressing and Val is actually legit things could heat up fast the following year.


----------



## Bogg

c_dog said:


> i disagree. terry is a rarer talent compared to perkins, even if sixth man of the year candidates are a dime a dozen.
> 
> and for every person that blame perkin's departure for the celtics' disappointing exit, there are even more people who believe the celtics would have lost to the heat anyway. heat is a very good team and would have won the series regardless. *and there are plenty of thunder fans who thought perkins was disappointing in the playoffs.. barely rebounded and couldn't slow down randalph and dirk at all. perkins doesn't belong in that list of guys that you listed.* if JV turns out to be horford, nene, etc, then yes, this pick is worth it. if he turns out like perkins i would wish we had drafted walker/knight.


A) Perkins rushed back early from an injury that takes over a year to recover from to help one, and then the other playoff contender while risking his own health and livelihood. He'll be better next year, and helped steady a very young team that is currently too immature to have arrived yet.

B) Randolph is one of the best low-post scorers in the NBA and averaged a shade under 23 points on only 40% shooting in the Grizzlies series against the Thunder, a full 10% below his average for the regular season. The idea that Randolph torched the Thunder and that Perk was wholly unable to handle him is simply wrong.

C) Dirk is entirely the wrong type of forward to expect Perkins to guard. He's a _post_ defender while Dirk is an outside-in power forward of above-average quickness on the perimeter, may as well ask him to check Shawn Marion while you're at it. That one falls on Ibaka and Collison.

D) Did you know that OKC outrebounded Dallas in every game of the WCF, including a mystifying game four in which they won the battle of the boards 55-33 and _lost_? The Thunder did a fine job of handling the interior/boards against Dallas. OKC lost the series because Westbrook spent five games with his head up his ***(literally had as many turnovers as assists), Durant doesn't have full control over his team, and Ibaka and Harden(both only 21) haven't yet developed into championship-level players.


----------



## c_dog

Bogg said:


> A) Perkins rushed back early from an injury that takes over a year to recover from to help one, and then the other playoff contender while risking his own health and livelihood. He'll be better next year, and helped steady a very young team that is currently too immature to have arrived yet.
> 
> B) Randolph is one of the best low-post scorers in the NBA and averaged a shade under 23 points on only 40% shooting in the Grizzlies series against the Thunder, a full 10% below his average for the regular season. The idea that Randolph torched the Thunder and that Perk was wholly unable to handle him is simply wrong.
> 
> C) Dirk is entirely the wrong type of forward to expect Perkins to guard. He's a _post_ defender while Dirk is an outside-in power forward of above-average quickness on the perimeter, may as well ask him to check Shawn Marion while you're at it. That one falls on Ibaka and Collison.
> 
> D) Did you know that OKC outrebounded Dallas in every game of the WCF, including a mystifying game four in which they won the battle of the boards 55-33 and _lost_? The Thunder did a fine job of handling the interior/boards against Dallas. OKC lost the series because Westbrook spent five games with his head up his ***(literally had as many turnovers as assists), Durant doesn't have full control over his team, and Ibaka and Harden(both only 21) haven't yet developed into championship-level players.


1)injured or not, perkins wasn't that much better even before his injury. i wish people stop using perkins as an excuse as to why the celtics lost. even with perkins they would have still lost to the lakers and heat. the better team won both times.
2)zach's % went down as do a lot of players' fg% in the playoffs. fact was he still scored 23ppg and dominated against perk whenever he wanted to. for a guy who's supposed to be a great one on one post defender, perkins just did not slow down zach as much as his reputation would suggest.
3)dirk is a tough cover, but perkins is practically useless against most star bigman not named dwight howard. again, i think his reputation far exceeds what he actually brings to the table.
4)okc outrebounding dallas has nothing to do with perkins. his averages around 6 whooping rebounds! wow!

my point was not so much about perkins sucking as much as i don't want JV to be anything like perkins. cuz if he ends up being like perkins i would be upset that we passed on walker. this team needs to stop drafting based on preceived needs.. need is important but when your team is this pathetic with no real talent you have got to draft BPA.


----------



## Bogg

c_dog said:


> 1)injured or not, perkins wasn't that much better even before his injury. i wish people stop using perkins as an excuse as to why the celtics lost. even with perkins they would have still lost to the lakers and heat. the better team won both times.


Had Perkins been in Boston and Rondo had been healthy, things may have been different. However, the Celtics in the second half of the season were such a different squad from the Celtics from the first half of the year that it's impossible to tell how much of it was the result of not having a real center available in the playoffs and how much was old bodies wearing down(plus Rondo's lingering foot injury). That being said, I've never mentioned Celtics vs. Heat in this thread, but it's a nice strawman, I suppose.





c_dog said:


> 1)2)zach's % went down as do a lot of players' fg% in the playoffs. fact was he still scored 23ppg and dominated against perk whenever he wanted to. for a guy who's supposed to be a great one on one post defender, perkins just did not slow down zach as much as his reputation would suggest.


......except that Randolph had just finished shooting 50% against San Antonio in the first round. Your perception of the series seems to be colored by Zach's good games, completely forgetting about him scoring 15 points on 15% shooting in game 2 or submitting a 9 point, 7 rebound performance in a pivotal game 5 that may have cost Memphis the series. For a guy who could dominate whenever he wanted, he sure shot a low percentage for a big man.......



c_dog said:


> 3)dirk is a tough cover, but perkins is practically useless against most star bigman not named dwight howard. again, i think his reputation far exceeds what he actually brings to the table.


....except, as I stated, he turned Zach Randolph into a very efficient scorer into one who shot a below-average percentage from the floor....and Nene's shooting percentage dropped from 61.5% in the regular season to 47.8% in the first round....and Perkins was traded for specifically with the Lakers in mind, because he's historically been good against big, heavy, pound-it-inside frontcourts. He's a good defender of post players in general, not a gimmick guy to counter a particular star. 




c_dog said:


> 4)okc outrebounding dallas has nothing to do with perkins. his averages around 6 whooping rebounds! wow!
> 
> my point was not so much about perkins sucking as much as i don't want JV to be anything like perkins. cuz if he ends up being like perkins i would be upset that we passed on walker. this team needs to stop drafting based on preceived needs.. need is important but when your team is this pathetic with no real talent you have got to draft BPA.


Perkins is excellent at clearing space and keeping guys off the boards underneath, as opposed to a player like Al Jefferson who grabs a bunch of boards but never puts a body on anyone. Perkins only averages around eight rebounds a game(in short minutes, for a starter) but goes a long way to keeping control of the paint. At any rate, the 280-plus pound Perkins isn't a particularly good comparison for the 230-pound Valanciunas. The less physical, but also excellent defensively Tyson Chandler is much more along the lines of what Toronto would be hoping for. If it's a real home-run pick he'll wind up Chandler with a good offensive game.


----------



## seifer0406

With the lockout, I'm even more comfortable with this pick then before. Looking at next year's draft class, there are no centers projected in the lottery. The point guards available next year are considered better prospects than Knight and Walker and the small forwards available are definitely going to be better than Jan Veseley.


----------



## c_dog

tyson chandler with offense would make him a top 3 center in this league.. we just don't get centers like that in the nba anymore. i'm sure hoping for it but i know i shouldn't get my hopes up.


----------

