# Opinions on Livingston's Injury



## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

I personally think it may be a blessing in disguise, if he's forced to retire, the clips will actually have a tiny bit of bargaining room in free agency (which we will undoubtedly use for a pg, hopefully a proven one).

Also we wont' have to endure anymore ridiculously lopsided trades being turned down by the clippers. My heart couldn't handle another hall of famer being available for livingston, only for the clips to turn it down in defiance of all common sense.

Also, hopefully the clips have learned their lesson about "potential" by now after the Olowokandi, Miles and Livingston disasters. Anyways, just saying that it could turn out to be a good thing for the future of the clips instead of banking it all on our most injured player who never sniffed his "potential", who knows, maybe without his #1 guy on the court, Dunleavy may get fired! woo!


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

it sucks that this happened to Shaun ....but wow it must have been bad, cuz on Ch.9 they said "...we cant even show it to you" 
does anyone have a clip by the way???? was it that bad??? for those who saw it ???
but yeah...it sucks but i mean the Clippers must move on, as far as the "season being over" no ....not really 
we are still in it ....
hope Shaun recovers and if he doesnt play with the Clippers anymore i wish him success somewhere else....

and i bashed him alot but i am in no way enjoying this :sad:


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

they showed it just fine on nba.com's halftime highlights. and i agree with you leidout, although a bit crude. we might be able to just extend or sign livingston for the minimum. anything more is a risk. he wasn't even playing to his fullest potential, and it's impossible now with the harsh knee injury. but has this organization really learned its lesson? i seriously doubt it


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

I watched it on NBA.com. It looked pretty bad, but isnt calling it career ending premature right now? AS of right now its listed as a dislocated knee cap, something he has had before and recovered from. 

Seems like some people might be blowing it out of proportion.. Like some of the guys in other forums saying a bone was sticking out? Everything ive seen so far... Didnt see a bone sticking out....

It looked bad, but seems like he could bounce back from it possibly. Maybe im just an optimistic?


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

leidout said:


> I personally think it may be a blessing in disguise, if he's forced to retire, the clips will actually have a tiny bit of bargaining room in free agency (which we will undoubtedly use for a pg, hopefully a proven one).
> 
> Also we wont' have to endure anymore ridiculously lopsided trades being turned down by the clippers. My heart couldn't handle another hall of famer being available for livingston, only for the clips to turn it down in defiance of all common sense.
> 
> Also, hopefully the clips have learned their lesson about "potential" by now after the Olowokandi, Miles and Livingston disasters. Anyways, just saying that it could turn out to be a good thing for the future of the clips instead of banking it all on our most injured player who never sniffed his "potential", who knows, maybe without his #1 guy on the court, Dunleavy may get fired! woo!


What a disgusting post. Yeah lets wish a player on the Clippers the team you supposedly like to have a career ending injury. Just sick, you should be ashamed.


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## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> I watched it on NBA.com. It looked pretty bad, but isnt calling it career ending premature right now? AS of right now its listed as a dislocated knee cap, something he has had before and recovered from.
> 
> *Seems like some people might be blowing it out of proportion.. Like some of the guys in other forums saying a bone was sticking out? Everything ive seen so far... Didnt see a bone sticking out....*
> 
> It looked bad, but seems like he could bounce back from it possibly. Maybe im just an optimistic?


His kneecap was sticking out to the right side of his knee. 

The replay that really showed how bad it looked was the very first one right after it happened. I guess its too graphic to show it anymore. It was a close up of him on the floor and it was a clear view of how nasty the injury was. You could literally see the empty space where his kneecap was suppossed to be and how his kneecap was pointing to the inside.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

Theirs your video.

The injury changes my mock draft from the Clippers actually keeping Maggette this offseason and drafting Acie Law + Hasheem Thabeet


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Thats terrible. I wish that he can bounce back. It would seem though he will be out for a long time. Thanks for the video I only say the 4th quarter so I had missed the injury. Terrible....


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## MicCheck12 (Aug 12, 2005)

Man when I saw that I almost cried becouse of how painful that looked


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## GoClips (May 17, 2006)

Horrible injury  Hopefully Shaun can tough it out and be back by the end of the season.


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## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

leidout said:


> I personally think it may be a blessing in disguise, if he's forced to retire, the clips will actually have a tiny bit of bargaining room in free agency (which we will undoubtedly use for a pg, hopefully a proven one).


you're a classless disgrace.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

McDyess had a similar type injury when he broke his knee cap. Its not career ending but does put a damper on the immediate future. I would say he isn't the same for a year atleast, if ever but that isn't to say I think he wont be back.


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## M-Blade (Oct 19, 2005)

I think he's definitely gone for the season... but there's no reason he shouldn't be able to bounce back by next season seeing as a guy like Djibril Cisse was able to return to playing soccer both times he broke a leg.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

poor Shaun man....all basketball related **** aside....
that really really sucks


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

damn, i cringe when i see that. poor guy, i feel bad for him. that looked pretty bad.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

i think its unlikely he comes back this season and maybe next....

with that said...what can the Clippers do now??? **** when was the last time they drafter someone who actually contributes significantly? but they need a PG now more than ever ....

but i guess lets see how the next couple games pan out....the CLippers won by single digits against the BOBCATS>...so i hope this isnt a sign of things to come...


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## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> i think its unlikely he comes back this season and maybe next....


if it's as bad as it looked, I can't imagine he'll be back this season. We'll likely see a d-league signing soon.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Definitely it seems like he won't be back for this season. I hope that his injury isn't too serious and that he can get back to starting to rehab and playing basketball in a several months. I wouldn't be surprised if he is out for at least 6 months but I hope he bounces back and can play much quicker.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Guys, please NO VIDEO NOR PICTURE posts relating to this injury. Thats like worse than porn for this board, IMO, and regardless there are others who it makes squeamish too. 

I know there are people out there who are totally fine with watching it...thats your own perrogative. But if youre interested in watching the video or looking at pictures, plesae PM qross or others who say they have it, or you can request here that someone PM you.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Tomorrow im sure we will get all of the medical experts weighing in on the issue. Career ending, out 3 weeks, out 6 months, out 2 years, everything so far is just speculation. As leidout said, one thing is certain, there will be no 40 or 50 million dollar extension. On the flip side, the clippers did, even toward the end of the iverson talks (too late though) decide to take the untouchable label off of livingston. Now, as if anyone really wants him anyway anymore, we can be sure, no matter what the outcome, he will be labeled as injury magnet for at least 3-4 years. So we now just lost our best tradeable option. Maggette will never fetch us a superstar on his own. 

So there are pros and cons. More pros is that hopefully we start loosing more games again to get a better position in the draft to use for trading and/or just a better player. Con: With a full roster, what happens when cassell has to sit out a game? We dont even have a lionel chalmers emergency type on the team...mobley might have to play some point, but he too is hurt. Pro: We dont have to worry about a big extension this summer. Con: How does this affect our draft? Will we know by draft time if livingston will ever be able to recover 100%? So should we draft PG first? Or do we bank on him coming back, so look at another position? 

We could go on and on. Bottom line, lets just hope hes not too hurt...you never want to see a career ending thing happen to anyone who does this for a living or not.


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## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

The draft this year is really thin on PGs, so I wouldn't waste a 1st round pick on a PG. Maybe use the MLE to get a decent PG or if we have enough cap space try to sign Mo Williams from the Bucks.

I'm not a doctor but I have a feeling this injury isn't as bad as it looked or sounded. After the knee was popped back into place, he didn't have anymore pain, according to the team doctor.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_21008.shtml

So hopefully this injury isn't that bad and he can be ready to go by the start of next season.

If anyone knows, is a dislocated knee worse than an ACL or MCL strain or tear?


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

PAIDNFULL23 said:


> The draft this year is really thin on PGs, so I wouldn't waste a 1st round pick on a PG. Maybe use the MLE to get a decent PG or if we have enough cap space try to sign Mo Williams from the Bucks.
> 
> I'm not a doctor but I have a feeling this injury isn't as bad as it looked or sounded. After the knee was popped back into place, he didn't have anymore pain, according to the team doctor.
> 
> ...


While I haven't dislocated my knees yet, I do know from other body parts that its tough to tell right away. Once the swelling goes down a bit they will be able to mri and see if anything was damaged when it went in and out. If the structure of the knee and the cap are sound, then this could be a much smaller issuer that the video makes it out to be. On the other hand he could have damaged part of his knee and be out a long period of time.


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## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

I had a friend who has a similar build and initially suffered the same injury. Very painful. He needed surgery and has now not been able to play basketball anymore because it keeps popping out of place. He actually learned how to pop it back into place after frequently injuring it. I'm not sure if he's had surgery yet or if he would be able to play again because of it. Also pretty sure that it is not as bad as if Livingston had tore his ACL.


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## Vaught from his Spot (Nov 8, 2006)

leidout said:


> I personally think it may be a blessing in disguise, if he's forced to retire, the clips will actually have a tiny bit of bargaining room in free agency (which we will undoubtedly use for a pg, hopefully a proven one).
> 
> Also we wont' have to endure anymore ridiculously lopsided trades being turned down by the clippers. My heart couldn't handle another hall of famer being available for livingston, only for the clips to turn it down in defiance of all common sense.
> 
> Also, hopefully the clips have learned their lesson about "potential" by now after the Olowokandi, Miles and Livingston disasters. Anyways, just saying that it could turn out to be a good thing for the future of the clips instead of banking it all on our most injured player who never sniffed his "potential", who knows, maybe without his #1 guy on the court, Dunleavy may get fired! woo!


Although already stated by others, I can't help but express my disgust with your post. It was a perfect blend of inaccuracies, unfair comparisons, and a lack of concern for a fellow human being. Basketball abilities aside, Shaun is a wonderful human being, poised, charismatic, and humble. And let's not forget he is far more advanced in his game than the likes of Miles and Ohnoitkantbe. You really should be ashamed with yourself.

Shaun, I wish you a speedy recovery, and this is far from the end of your promising young career. Don't forget to put a little meat on them bones!


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I was shocked to hear the news this morning. Very sorry for Shaun and the Clips fans. Scary ugly injury. Hard to believe there might not be any significant ligament damage.

Shaun is one of those guys that fans around the league have been curious to see if he will live up to his 'potential'. He certainly did not need this kind of setback.

Hopefully injuries don't determine his career and we get to find out what the kid really has. He may just be a permanent potential kind of guy or he could have something special. Hopefully he has been smart with his rookie contract money and had some type of injury insurance.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

leidout said:


> I personally think it may be a blessing in disguise, if he's forced to retire, the clips will actually have a tiny bit of bargaining room in free agency (which we will undoubtedly use for a pg, hopefully a proven one).
> 
> Also we wont' have to endure anymore ridiculously lopsided trades being turned down by the clippers. My heart couldn't handle another hall of famer being available for livingston, only for the clips to turn it down in defiance of all common sense.
> 
> Also, hopefully the clips have learned their lesson about "potential" by now after the Olowokandi, Miles and Livingston disasters. Anyways, just saying that it could turn out to be a good thing for the future of the clips instead of banking it all on our most injured player who never sniffed his "potential", who knows, maybe without his #1 guy on the court, Dunleavy may get fired! woo!


I just lost all respect for you buddy. Im disgusted by your classless post. There is no need for a post like that even if you are not a big supporter of Livy. Anyways, my heart dropped when the kid was screaming in pain on the floor. I hope Shaun comes back with a vengeance.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

very dissappointing, as he is my favorite player besides elton on the team...maybe it will be a blessing in disguise...a lot of time to think and mature, and if he lifts, he can strengthen his upper body...also, i feel bad saying this, but come contract re-up time, the clippers probably would get a discounted price...


good luck to you kid...


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Look folks, i don't know how many of you have had sports injuries, but i dislocated my shoulder about 6 years ago, and its still ****ed up today. I can also tell you from experience, that once it's put back into place, the pain drops about 10-notches. When i heard that it was a dislocation, i knew he was probably not in pain once it got popped back in. So i'm sorry if i wasn't crying with the rest of you.

And just to clear it up, I said *if* he was forced to retire, i never pretended to be a doctor and honestly don't believe it's a single career ender. But please *use some common sense people, this is third potentially career altering injury in 3 years, the guy should seriously consider packing it in if he cares about his long term health*. How many crates of painkillers is he gonna be taking a day in 10 years time?

As for his comparisons to Miles & Olowokandi, i stand by that, Olowokandi may be benched now, but in the first part of their career, they were essentially developing at the same incredibly slow pace even though they were being force-fed into the starting lineup. 

Sorry if i sounded crass, but i just wanted to point out what myself and others have been saying. The clippers have been endangering their long-term future by putting the hopes of the entire franchise on a overly-passive, completely unproven & very injury prone player. So now with this injury, things may have changed for the better or worse... who knows?


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

That was just terrible, not only for Livingston, but for the Clippers as well. I will be eagerly awaiting the diagnosis on Livingston, but there is no way we should even think about asking him to try and come back in the next 6 months. It just sucks that this guy gets hurt so much and now has a very serious injury.

Our future is up in the air and Cassell is going to have to man up and play some big minutes if he wants to get us back into the playoffs again.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-pk7_-FIlTw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-pk7_-FIlTw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

For those of you who want to see it, hit play.


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

The clippers are cursed.

The only good thing is that Sammy will get some definite minutes, no doubt about it- this year and next. The problem is that I think he is too old to play that many minutes consistently.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Roscoe Sheed said:


> The clippers are cursed.
> 
> The only good thing is that Sammy will get some definite minutes, no doubt about it- this year and next. The problem is that I think he is too old to play that many minutes consistently.


The only problem is Sammy has had nagging injuries all year so he wont be able log 35 mins per game. We are in big trouble at PG but I can really care less at this point. I really feel for Shaun and that damn injury has been haunting me all day at work. It was just flat out gruesome and it still makes my stomach hurt just thinking about it. I really wish him the best and a full recovery.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

The injury is obviously horrible, but that video isn't too graphic aside from the actual injury itself. The knee is covered in a towel as he is leaving the arena, you don't see it deformed. But no doubt, that's a bad injury, the leg looked like it went in a bunch of ways that it shouldn't have.


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## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

I think the creepiest footage is the fsn broadcast. You can hear Livingston almost screaming, the doctor yelling for the paramedics, you can see his kneecap is not where it should be before they cover his leg with a towel, the sickening shock Lawler and Smith have when they watch the replay, and the haunting words of Mike Smith that a patellar dislocation is not as devastating as an acl injury, .


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

leidout said:


> As for his comparisons to Miles & Olowokandi, i stand by that, Olowokandi may be benched now, but in the first part of their career, they were essentially developing at the same incredibly slow pace even though they were being force-fed into the starting lineup.
> 
> Sorry if i sounded crass, but i just wanted to point out what myself and others have been saying. The clippers have been endangering their long-term future by putting the hopes of the entire franchise on a overly-passive, completely unproven & very injury prone player. So now with this injury, things may have changed for the better or worse... who knows?


i agree with all of the above.... i guess you just went about it as harsh as can be ...and you sounded pretty cruel....im pretty sure everyone expected a post like that about Livingston from me hahah:lol: 
but surprisingly you made it ....
and as much as i agree with most everything you said above, and the "blessing in disguise" i probably would have not came about it as heartless....its not a matter of us "crying" but as Clipper fans you just feel for the kid no matter how you feel about him or his play...the injury is real life ....**** the game


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

"The clippers have been endangering their long-term future by putting the hopes of the entire franchise on a overly-passive, completely unproven & very injury prone player. So now with this injury, things may have changed for the better or worse... who knows?"

and yeah i was one of the ones who said that constantly non-stop, and well i really doubt things have changed for the "Worse" , if the Clippers make the right PG acquisitions i think things can change for the better....


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> its not a matter of us "crying" but as Clipper fans you just feel for the kid no matter how you feel about him or his play...the injury is real life ....**** the game


Well i dunno who exactly, but someone said they were crying while watching it... i think that's a little over the top. 

I may sound harsh to a lot of you, but the truth hurts sometimes, this is pro-basketball we're talking about, injuries are part of the game, he'll live. In boxing, a few fighters **die** every year, it sucks, but it's part of the sport and the risk you take in that career path. 

Nobody ever said it was easy, at least Livingston made a good living while he played. He probably got paid more in the last 3 years than all of us will make over a lifetime, i think the guy will be just fine no matter what the outcome is.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

leidout said:


> Nobody ever said it was easy, at least Livingston made a good living while he played. He probably got paid more in the last 3 years than all of us will make over a lifetime


:lol: thanks for that reminder :rofl:


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

i was watching the game live on league pass, and i havent seen a replay, but that was the worst i've every seen in any sport. i wasnt crying but i did get emotional, how could you not? the place was dead silent, it was very eerie. if you haven't seen him coming down from the jump, do yourself a favor and don't try to see it.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

nickrock23 said:


> i was watching the game live on league pass, and i havent seen a replay, but that was the worst i've every seen in any sport. i wasnt crying but i did get emotional, how could you not? the place was dead silent, it was very eerie. if you haven't seen him coming down from the jump, do yourself a favor and don't try to see it.


From the ones I've seen, that was the third worst I've seen. The worst had to be during the tryouts for SlamBall when someone got his leg stuck between the trampoline and the mat and his body went up. His ankle was litterally dangling and was connected by the skin. If you had scissors you could litterally snip off his ankle. The second worst is the hockey goalie who had his throat slit open and was bleeding crazy


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

With that injury, it may as well have been a complete amutation at the knee. His knee is completly destroyed. Vast amounts of medical science and rehab will allow him to walk again, but basketball is out of the question.


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## CowboyBebop (Mar 20, 2006)

Yega1979 said:


> With that injury, it may as well have been a complete amutation at the knee. His knee is completly destroyed. Vast amounts of medical science and rehab will allow him to walk again, but basketball is out of the question.


So there is no chance at all that he can make a full recovery?


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