# OT - Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on



## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

From his website:



> Wassup y'all ...
> 
> Man, today is one of those surreal days for me and my family. When you love something as much as I love the Lakers its hard to even imagine thinking about being elsewhere. But, the ONE THING I will never sacrifice when it comes to basketball is WINNING. That is plain and simply what it's all about. It's in my DNA. It's what pushes me to work as hard as I do. It's my daily passion and pursuit.
> 
> ...


http://news.kb24.com/#311

It's most interesting to think about where he's going to end up. For some reason, I don't think the Blazers are too interested in him. 

And as a Blazer fan, one must feel better after contemplating the Lakers direction and the Blazers direction, seeing what happened in game seven a while back.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*

Strength and Honor?

Peculiar sig for a lying, adultering rapist.

The Lakers will improve dramatically when they trade that ball-hog for someone who plays a team game, so here's hoping they keep him forever.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



> The Lakers will improve dramatically when they trade that ball-hog for someone who plays a team game, so here's hoping they keep him forever.


Maris, you can't deny that he's a good basketball player. With his skills, he should be shooting more than his other teammates. He still averaged 4.4 assists per game.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



MARIS61 said:


> Strength and Honor?
> 
> Peculiar sig for a lying, adultering rapist.
> 
> The Lakers will improve dramatically when they trade that ball-hog for someone who plays a team game, so here's hoping they keep him forever.


A) he wasn't convicted of anything. he may have raped her, he may not have. CAllING him a rapist is douchbaggery.

B) addition by subtraction? How many times will that fail before people start to learn that there's no such thing as addition by subtraction. If there was, we would have made the playoffs the year we traded wells and wallace, rather than falling out of the playoffs for the 1st time in 20+ years.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*

When you trade bad character for good character and the talent is equal, then addition by subtraction can work. When you get worse talent and "good guys" for a premier talent, then that theory gets shot to heck.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



HKF said:


> When you trade bad character for good character and the talent is equal, then addition by subtraction can work.


Where's the subtraction in that equation?

I just see addition.

Ed O.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

He wants to go to the Eastern conference so he can try to drag a crappy team to a Finals appearance.

What a complete wuss.


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## DamDweller (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally posted by *papaq*
> _He wants to go to the Eastern conference so he can try to drag a crappy team to a Finals appearance.
> 
> What a complete wuss._


I don't know what the problem is papaq. I am completely fine with Kobe going East and I think most of us in the Western Conference feel that way as well. Besides, basketball in the East isn't doing all that great right now and this could be the shot in the arm they need. Remember, we want people watching the NBA when the Trail Blazers go to the finals.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

The team that trades for Kobe is going to have to give up A LOT in that trade ... so after the fact, how much better will they be WITH Kobe?

But Kobe, every time he's opened his mouth this summer, has eroded whatever bit of public good will he'd built up over the past season or two.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



Fork said:


> A) he wasn't convicted of anything. he may have raped her, he may not have. CAllING him a rapist is douchbaggery.


I guess calling OJ a killer is dumb too.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*

*Strength and Honor?* Is Kobe going to be on Last Comic Standing this season? :lol:


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## BengalDuck (Jun 19, 2004)

OJ was actually convicted for battery and other damages in the civil trial.

I wonder if Maris61 thinks that those Duke lacrosse players are rapists, too, because if not he's a racist punk hiding behind an internet name. And I don't even like Kobe.


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## chairman (Jul 2, 2006)

wastro said:


> The team that trades for Kobe is going to have to give up A LOT in that trade ... so after the fact, how much better will they be WITH Kobe?
> 
> But Kobe, every time he's opened his mouth this summer, has eroded whatever bit of public good will he'd built up over the past season or two.


Chicago is the only option I can see. They won't trade him to Phoenix. New York has nothing anyone wants. So....

Brown, Gordon, Deng, #9 this year and a #1 in two years do it?

That leaves Kobe, Hinrich, Thomas,Wallace, Sweetney, Nocioni, Duhon


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## maxiep (May 7, 2003)

Isn't this the same note that he wrote a few weeks ago? I saw it last week and read somewhere else that he just changes the date every day.

Man, poor Eric Marentette. I wonder what his job title is? Perhaps his resume says "Satan's Right-Hand Man".


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## Entity (Feb 21, 2005)

Well, there should be an extra open spot in the playoffs for certain now, not that they were a sure thing next year anyway.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i would say atlanta, 76ers, celtics or nets


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

> Man, today is one of those surreal days for me and my family. When you love something as much as I love the Lakers its hard to even imagine thinking about being elsewhere. But, the ONE THING I will never sacrifice when it comes to basketball is WINNING. That is plain and simply what it's all about. It's in my DNA. It's what pushes me to work as hard as I do. It's my daily passion and pursuit.


Didnt he leave all his DNA in Colorado? :biggrin:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

B_&_B said:


> Didnt he leave all his DNA in Colorado? :biggrin:


check your "usercp" BNB, I left you a comment in your reputation thingy.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Hap said:


> check your "usercp" BNB, I left you a comment in your reputation thingy.


:lol:


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Am I the only one who noticed his grammatical gaffe, i.e. "the Lakers and me have two different visions"?

Hint: when trying to decide if it is something "and me" or something "and I" take out the something and see. "Me have different visions" is clearly wrong.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

I heard he wants to be traded to the Heat.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

People on the Lakers board are saying (speculating?) he wants to go to the Suns, Bulls, or Knicks.

That may hamper our ability to trade with the Bulls if true...


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

yakbladder said:


> People on the Lakers board are saying (speculating?) he wants to go to the Suns, Bulls, or Knicks.
> 
> That may hamper our ability to trade with the Bulls if true...


Definitely. When a guy like Kobe appears to be on the trade market, the whole league is basically on hold. Every team that thinks they have a shot at Kobe will put every other possible deal on the back burner, and whoever was going to trade with them thus also has to wait...

In the long-run though, unless the Bulls are the team Kobe actually ends up with, we hypothetically can still make whatever deal they otherwise would have agreed to once Kobe goes somewhere else.


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## Short Bus Ryder (Jun 8, 2007)

2 words for what Kobe has just turned himself into. Terrell Owens.
Except TO dos'nt have off court issues.
A ton of talent that you can move in to divide your locker room.


No Thanks....


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

gosh, the guy who forced his way onto the Lakers is now forcing his way out of the Lakers. big shock. 

in the next collective bargaining agreement they really need to address this issue. players should be allowed to demand a trade, but there should be a penalty of some kind built into such a demand. Bryant can force himself onto a better team and it doesn't cost him a penny. 

seems only fair that it should result in a 25% pay cut or something.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Atlanta is the only team I can think of that could give the Lakers value while retaining some of their talent. Everyone else (including the Bulls) would have to move their core pieces... meaning they'd lose the ability to remain competitive (which is what Kobe demands).


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Where have you been the last couple of weeks. The only thing that's confirmed is that Kobe likes attention and tends to change his mind every couple of hours.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

Kobe can demand to be traded all he wants.

Doesn't mean the lakers are going to move him.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

anyone else notice that Kobe keeps bumping this story? Like the guy is desperate to be in the headlines.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Nightfly said:


> Kobe can demand to be traded all he wants.
> 
> Doesn't mean the lakers are going to move him.


But what can they do if they don't? Let him go through a season where they're paying him millions and millions of dollars without his heart in it? Where he is critical of the team and/or forcing them to fine and suspending him?

Normally management has all the cards (see: Bonzi Wells and dozens of others). When a superstar wants something, though, he tends to get it.

And since Kobe is the only player in the NBA with a no-trade clause, the Lakers are really going to have problems getting top value back for him...

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

mook said:


> gosh, the guy who forced his way onto the Lakers is now forcing his way out of the Lakers. big shock.
> 
> in the next collective bargaining agreement they really need to address this issue. players should be allowed to demand a trade, but there should be a penalty of some kind built into such a demand. Bryant can force himself onto a better team and it doesn't cost him a penny.
> 
> seems only fair that it should result in a 25% pay cut or something.


I think he actually has a trade kicker, if you can believe it.

I hear what you're saying, but what about the other side of things? Kobe claims that when he spoke to Dr. Buss, the team claimed it was going to remain competitive... that it was going to be aggressive and spend money and try to get back to the top.

What did the Lakers do to that end? Not much. Refused to trade for Jason Kidd because it would've cost them Bynum. Failed to make a splash with free agency (even though they've only had the MLE, it's surprising they haven't procured anything significant). 

So... why did Kobe sign with the Lakers? More money, presumably. Easier to stay put than to change, I'd bet. But ALSO because of what he was told by Dr. Buss and Lakers management.

If the Lakers aren't going to do what they'd said they'd do, what can Kobe do? Either accept the losing--and the team's changed strategy--or he can push his way out.

I don't blame him too much. Not any more than I do the Blazers when they trade Juan Dixon or Joel Przybilla. It's a business, and both sides can get what they want when they have leverage. And Kobe has leverage because he's one of the top 5 players in the world.

Ed O.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

yeah, I've said as much in other thread. here, I'll quote me: 



Me said:


> the current Lakers squad is an incredible sad sack of players. that he clawed and dragged that motley lot into the playoffs is a greater testament to his abilities than the three rings. heck, Vince Carter quit on a team with more opportunity.
> 
> you may not like him personally. I know I don't. but as a fan of competitive sports, you have to really respect his career to date.
> 
> I normally don't like to see superstars demand trades, but I don't begrudge Bryant (or Garnett, should he choose to) doing so. next year's team projects to be worse than the one three years ago. there comes a point where you have to realize that management has no intention of helping you compete again for relevance, let alone a title.


I think Vince Carter and Alonzo Mourning are much less defensible than Bryant in this regard.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



MARIS61 said:


> Strength and Honor?
> 
> Peculiar sig for a lying, adultering rapist.


he didn't rape anyone, first of all. **Edit* who had multiple semen stains on one set of panties, in an all-white town with a sensationalist media beefing up her bull****, said that...yeah, real reliable. people need to drop the rapist crap.


i don't like kobe, really, but i think he holds both strength and honor. i mean jeez, he has to put up with people like you saying stuff like this every day of his life.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



ryanjend22 said:


> he didn't rape anyone, first of all. **Edit* who had multiple semen stains on one set of panties, in an all-white town with a sensationalist media beefing up her bull****, said that...yeah, real reliable. people need to drop the rapist crap.
> 
> 
> i don't like kobe, really, but i think he holds both strength and honor. i mean jeez, he has to put up with people like you saying stuff like this every day of his life.


And hence why he had to buy a bazillion dollar ring for his wife so she wouldn't leave him. Yeah, I mean, rich people never get out of trouble. Maybe he didn't rape her, who knows? But he's certainly not a model of "strength and honor". Sorry, but I reserve that for a very select group of people of which Kobe is nowhere near. And by the way, he gets paid more money than everyone on this board combined for the rest of our lives in order to put up with people saying stuff. Wahh wahh for Kobe.

That all being said, I don't see how a team can trade for him without decimating the team. LA is going to want too many pieces to part with Kobe. So Kobe maybe get his wish to be paired with Jermaine ONeal (if JO isn't traded to LA first), but it'll just end up being him and JO.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



yakbladder said:


> And hence why he had to buy a bazillion dollar ring for his wife so she wouldn't leave him. Yeah, I mean, rich people never get out of trouble. Maybe he didn't rape her, who knows? But he's certainly not a model of "strength and honor". Sorry, but I reserve that for a very select group of people of which Kobe is nowhere near. And by the way, he gets paid more money than everyone on this board combined for the rest of our lives in order to put up with people saying stuff. Wahh wahh for Kobe.
> 
> That all being said, I don't see how a team can trade for him without decimating the team. LA is going to want too many pieces to part with Kobe. So Kobe maybe get his wish to be paired with Jermaine ONeal (if JO isn't traded to LA first), but it'll just end up being him and JO.


it ain't trickin' if ya got it...if you had stacks like bryant, that ring is a drop in the bucket. i just try to seperate basketball from real-life as much as possible. when he plays, he goes hard and i respect that. i guess this is why i still am a zach randolph fan.


but point taken about trading for him. you would have to dismantle a team to sign kobe right now.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Short Bus Ryder said:


> 2 words for what Kobe has just turned himself into. Terrell Owens.
> Except TO dos'nt have off court issues.
> A ton of talent that you can move in to divide your locker room.
> 
> ...


I'd say the alleged overdose debacle was an off the field issue.


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## stockfire (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



yakbladder said:


> And hence why he had to buy a bazillion dollar ring for his wife so she wouldn't leave him. Yeah, I mean, rich people never get out of trouble. Maybe he didn't rape her, who knows? But he's certainly not a model of "strength and honor". Sorry, but I reserve that for a very select group of people of which Kobe is nowhere near. And by the way, he gets paid more money than everyone on this board combined for the rest of our lives in order to put up with people saying stuff. Wahh wahh for Kobe.
> 
> That all being said, I don't see how a team can trade for him without decimating the team. LA is going to want too many pieces to part with Kobe. So Kobe maybe get his wish to be paired with Jermaine ONeal (if JO isn't traded to LA first), but it'll just end up being him and JO.




Seriously, you're going to claim the pious route and reserve "strength and honor" for those who truly "deserve it". You're going to claim that there are qualities in people more virtuous than material wealth...that money _does not truly_ matter. Then you are going to use the money that "doesn't matter" and use it as criteria for libel?

And last time I checked, has paid to play baseketball above all else, not be sit subject to *******es all day long. Being a super-star does put you into a critical spotlight, but anyone who takes advantage of that as carte-blanche for and endless amount of personal attacks, lack of human kindness, and general *****-titude (© Me, Just Now) is no better than the person they have a false sense of superiority over.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



ryanjend22 said:


> he didn't rape anyone, first of all. **Edit* who had multiple semen stains on one set of panties, in an all-white town with a sensationalist media beefing up her bull****, said that...yeah, real reliable. people need to drop the rapist crap.
> 
> 
> i don't like kobe, really, but i think he holds both strength and honor. i mean jeez, he has to put up with people like you saying stuff like this every day of his life.


I don't feel one iota of sympathy for Kobe. He brought all that "bull****" on himself.

Plus he's a ********.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



ryanjend22 said:


> i don't like kobe, really, but i think he holds both strength and honor. i mean jeez, he has to put up with people like you saying stuff like this every day of his life.


yah, and for a while he put up with the not cheating on his wife thing too.


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## Short Bus Ryder (Jun 8, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> I'd say the alleged overdose debacle was an off the field issue.


That was all just a mis-understanding... :wahmbulance:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Short Bus Ryder said:


> That was all just a mis-understanding... :wahmbulance:


yah, instead of reading it as "take 2 pills every 6 hours, and do not exceed 8 pills in 24 hours", he read it as "take 6 pills every 2 hours, but no less than 24 pills in a 8 hours"


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

You know what amazes me, is the fact that guys like Kobe, KG, AI and others go out, score a buttload, and get signed to absolutely huge contract that take their teams over the cap, leaving them in a situation which they cannot bring in any new free agents, because they cannot afford them. Then the same guys, come out, and say "You have to bring in talent so we can win." yet, when asked where the money to sign free agents comes from, they are not willing to part with a little in order to make sure talent comes in. To me, that is hypocrisy at its finest.


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## stockfire (Jul 17, 2004)

hasoos said:


> You know what amazes me, is the fact that guys like Kobe, KG, AI and others go out, score a buttload, and get signed to absolutely huge contract that take their teams over the cap, leaving them in a situation which they cannot bring in any new free agents, because they cannot afford them. Then the same guys, come out, and say "You have to bring in talent so we can win." yet, when asked where the money to sign free agents comes from, they are not willing to part with a little in order to make sure talent comes in. To me, that is hypocrisy at its finest.


Can players restructure contracts? I notice Peyton Manning doing it each off season so they can keep their talent... never hear about it in the NBA, is it even possible?


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



stockfire said:


> Seriously, you're going to claim the pious route and reserve "strength and honor" for those who truly "deserve it". You're going to claim that there are qualities in people more virtuous than material wealth...that money _does not truly_ matter. Then you are going to use the money that "doesn't matter" and use it as criteria for libel?
> 
> And last time I checked, has paid to play baseketball above all else, not be sit subject to *******es all day long. Being a super-star does put you into a critical spotlight, but anyone who takes advantage of that as carte-blanche for and endless amount of personal attacks, lack of human kindness, and general *****-titude (© Me, Just Now) is no better than the person they have a false sense of superiority over.


Do you even think these things through or do you just build altars to athletes because you have nothing better to do? 

I can think of at least a dozen professions off the top of my head that would be more deserved for "strength and honor" than a basketball player.

By the way, perhaps you'd like to point out where I actually committed libel? Of course you can't, because I didn't and you don't know what it means.

They are paid to be entertainers as much as anything and yes they are subject to the spotlight. And before you go melodramatic and talk about how all of the athletes SUFFER from these very personal attacks let me just say that you'll notice I don't extend these "vicious attacks" out at all the players. In fact I'd say Kobe is one of the only ones. And it's because of both his behavior on the court as well as off of it.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

stockfire said:


> Can players restructure contracts? I notice Peyton Manning doing it each off season so they can keep their talent... never hear about it in the NBA, is it even possible?


thats a good question, i dunno. but i agree with the comments that led up to this. they often make their own bed with their monster contracts.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Well, the woman involved was white. That's about the only point in the Kobe-defender screed that is fact.

And yes, I do reserve "strength and honor" for those who have earned it. Not perfect people, none of us are, but those who have behaved honorably and showed not physical but moral and/or intellectual strength. Some NBA players who are not perfect but have shown strength and honor:
Tim Duncan
LeBron James
Adonal Foyle
Brandon Roy
Martell Webster
Derek Fisher

This is a very partial list. There are about 100 I would put ahead of Kobe Bryant on this list. At least.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

stockfire said:


> Can players restructure contracts? I notice Peyton Manning doing it each off season so they can keep their talent... never hear about it in the NBA, is it even possible?


I am unsure, but pretty much any deal can be restructured as long as both sides agree. The only reason they wouldn't be able to is if the NBA itself had a specific rule against it.


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## stockfire (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



yakbladder said:


> Do you even think these things through or do you just build altars to athletes because you have nothing better to do?
> 
> I can think of at least a dozen professions off the top of my head that would be more deserved for "strength and honor" than a basketball player.
> 
> ...



Your bitterness is sad.

I've never built an alter to any basketball player, your speculations make you ignorant. 

Edit out your self-righteous assumptions and try again.


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## stockfire (Jul 17, 2004)

crandc said:


> Well, the woman involved was white. That's about the only point in the Kobe-defender screed that is fact.
> 
> And yes, I do reserve "strength and honor" for those who have earned it. Not perfect people, none of us are, but those who have behaved honorably and showed not physical but moral and/or intellectual strength. Some NBA players who are not perfect but have shown strength and honor:
> Tim Duncan
> ...



I don't mean to say that I disagree with any of the above, merely the blatant hypocrisy of yakbladder. 

I don't excuse Kobe for his actions and i'm not a personal fan of Kobe. But what I am a fan of is maintaining environments where people don't spew filth at every turn under a false notion of ascendancy.


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## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



stockfire said:


> Seriously, you're going to claim the pious route and reserve "strength and honor" for those who truly "deserve it".


Sign me up for the 'pious route' then. Guys that screw around on their wives don't get to use the word *honor* in their sig, because they have none, IMO.

Go Blazers


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

kobe traded with portland involved?


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

stockfire said:


> I don't mean to say that I disagree with any of the above, merely the blatant hypocrisy of yakbladder.
> 
> I don't excuse Kobe for his actions and i'm not a personal fan of Kobe. But what I am a fan of is maintaining environments where people don't spew filth at every turn under a false notion of ascendancy.


I would consider calling a woman a whore to be spewing filth.

*-I'm sorry I didn't see it sooner, I have taken care of it.*


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## stockfire (Jul 17, 2004)

crandc said:


> I would consider calling a woman a whore to be spewing filth.


Which is why i've never said or implied any such thing.


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## stockfire (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



BealzeeBob said:


> Sign me up for the 'pious route' then. Guys that screw around on their wives don't get to use the word *honor* in their sig, because they have none, IMO.
> 
> Go Blazers




Taking that section out of the context of what I was trying to say devalues it. My point being that along the lines of "walk the walk" rather than that of "cheating on your wife is a-ok." I appreciate truncating my post to make it seem like that was what I was implying.

lovely community here, really.

and I realize i'm playing devil's advocate here (more than I realized since lots of you actually believe Kobe to be Satan), but is he now forbidden from using the word Honor? No matter what? Forever? 

What if (sweet love watch out, here comes a hypothetical) he actually is trying to make a commitment to being a better man/person/husband. What if he realizes somewhere along the way that he really messed up and wants to rectify it? Which one of you have not had that feeling about something in our life? 

Maybe not. Maybe he's 100% jerk and always will be, I don't know. I just feel that pages going on in a tissy about Kobe using the word "honor" to be disappointing and more or less frivolous.

Ok, Yakbladder, i'm ready for you to come tell me which words I don't know the meaning of.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

> What if (sweet love watch out, here comes a hypothetical) he actually is trying to make a commitment to being a better man/person/husband. What if he realizes somewhere along the way that he really messed up and wants to rectify it? Which one of you have not had that feeling about something in our life?


Well, if he is, a good place to start would be not slamming his teammates and team management in the media. 

And if he is, he would not proclaim himself strength and honor. He would try to achieve it. 

I don't think he's Satan since I don't believe in Satan (except the hockey player by that name). But I don't consider him an example of strength and honor. And I would be very upset to see him in a Blazers uniform.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

hasoos said:


> I am unsure, but pretty much any deal can be restructured as long as both sides agree. The only reason they wouldn't be able to is if the NBA itself had a specific rule against it.


They cannot. At least not downward. And contracts of shorter than four years can't be renegotiated upwards, either...

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#52

Ed O.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



ryanjend22 said:


> he didn't rape anyone, first of all. a dumb whore who had multiple semen stains on one set of panties, in an all-white town with a sensationalist media beefing up her bull****, said that...yeah, real reliable. people need to drop the rapist crap.


So you think he's MERELY a lying adulterer who was taken advantage of by this worldly little hick girl?

Got a dictionary? Look up "strength" and "honor", because it's clear you don't know their meanings.



ryanjend22 said:


> i mean jeez, he has to put up with people like you saying stuff like this every day of his life.


I certainly hope so.

It's not much, but it's the closest to being held accountable for his actions that he'll ever have to deal with.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2909549



> LOS ANGELES -- Intentional or not, Kobe Bryant seems to be doing everything he can to pressure the Los Angeles Lakers into trading him.
> 
> The latest twist in the Bryant saga involves an amateur video of the nine-time All-Star denouncing general manager Mitch Kupchak and teammate Andrew Bynum.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Just the fact he doesn't want to "honor" the 4 remaining years on his exhorbitant contract show he has no honor.

Duh.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Something rubs me the wrong way when people demand perfection on and off the court from professional athletes, while they themselves fall well short. How do I know this? Because we all do. Yes you have the right to criticize, name-call, and hate certain players, but please quit spewing your self-righteous reasons as your motivation. 

Rapist/whore comments aside, the fact remains that the lady had multiple semen stains on one set of panties. The reason the case was dropped was because THE ACCUSER DIDN'T WANT TO TESTIFY AFTER THE JUDGE DECIDED TO ALLOW EVIDENCE OF HER SEXUAL ACTIVITY IN THE DAYS SURROUNDING HER ENCOUNTER. I wonder why that is... Now I know some of you love to root for the underdog and root against the big bad rich guy, but I'd love it if you could mix some logic and reasoning in with your emotion. Believe it or not, there are quite a few 'underdogs' who are what we like to call 'gold-diggers'. 

He obviously betrayed his wife, but so do the MAJORITY of people in our society. If that's why you hate him, then you must hate all these other people as well. That's a lot of hate. :curse: :rant: :mad2: :azdaja:


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

ProZach said:


> Rapist/whore comments aside, the fact remains that the lady had multiple semen stains on one set of panties. The reason the case was dropped was because THE ACCUSER DIDN'T WANT TO TESTIFY AFTER THE JUDGE DECIDED TO ALLOW EVIDENCE OF HER SEXUAL ACTIVITY IN THE DAYS SURROUNDING HER ENCOUNTER. I wonder why that is...


Why do you think that is? Does the woman's sexual activity mean that she wasn't raped? I'm at a loss to understand how one can draw that conclusion, so please explain.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> Why do you think that is? Does the woman's sexual activity mean that she wasn't raped? I'm at a loss to understand how one can draw that conclusion, so please explain.



She goes through all that trouble to accuse Bryant of rape, then decides to drop the case because her sexual activity is deemed relevant by the judge (you know, that guy who knew a lot more information than either of us will ever know about the case). That doesn't strike you as odd? 

But to answer your question, obviously her sexual activity doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Much the same way her accusations didn't mean she was. So like you, I'm at a loss to understand how one can then draw the conclusion that she was in fact raped by Bryant. Please explain.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Loyalty4Life said:


> It's most interesting to think about where he's going to end up.


What I'm wondering is which team could and would possibly offer the Lakers an acceptable deal that also is appealing enough for Kobe to allow the trade.

Chicago is the obvious answer. They would have to give PJ Brown an extension to have a chance to get $15.5 m in non-BYC salary to match just Kobe, on top of which they could add Deng and one or two of the following: Sefolosha, Gordon, Thomas, #9 pick, Duhon. It gives the Lakers a decent star in Deng and another nice young player.

Memphis is perhaps another possibility. Kobe says he wants to win and has a no-trade clause I believe, so Memphis would seem to be out of the question, but not so fast. Memphis has some decent pieces and was devastated by injury last year. A core of Gasol and Kobe surrounded by role players could be pretty good. The Grizz could trade Rudy Gay and their #5 pick, along with Mike Miller and either Damon Stoudamire or Stro Swift. That leaves them with Lowry/Damon-Kobe-Warrick-Swift/Cardinal-Pau. Ok, that kind of sucks, but they could use their cap space to add some help, and Jerry West is there, so Kobe might be convinced.

People are talking about the Kobe to the Knicks, but I don't see how that's possible. What do they have that LAL would want? Channing Frye? David Lee? Jamal Crawford? Eddy Curry? Are any or all of those guys put together worth Kobe? I don't think so.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

ProZach said:


> She goes through all that trouble to accuse Bryant of rape, then decides to drop the case because her sexual activity is deemed relevant by the judge (you know, that guy who knew a lot more information than either of us will ever know about the case). That doesn't strike you as odd?
> 
> But to answer your question, obviously her sexual activity doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Much the same way her accusations didn't mean she was. So like you, I'm at a loss to understand how one can then draw the conclusion that she was in fact raped by Bryant. Please explain.


I don't know on what basis some people make a positive conclusion about this case. I think Kobe is guilty based on his own evasive and contradictory testimony, although it's not the most conclusive evidence.

I was asking you specifically though, since you were the one making the implication (in all caps even) that the accuser was a "gold-digger" and stating explicitly that somehow the accuser not wanting to testify without the benefit of the rape shield rules is meaningful.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> I don't know on what basis some people make a positive conclusion about this case. I think Kobe is guilty based on his own evasive and contradictory testimony, although it's not the most conclusive evidence.
> 
> I was asking you specifically though, since you were the one making the implication (in all caps even) that the accuser was a "gold-digger" and stating explicitly that somehow the accuser not wanting to testify without the benefit of the rape shield rules is meaningful.



Actually, the part in caps wasn't an implication, it was a fact. It's meaningful because if she was raped I would think she'd want justice. Not pack it in when faced with the prospect of sharing relevant information with the court. 

I don't know if she's a gold-digger, it wasn't my intent to make it seem like I did. Just offering my opinion.

But I find it amusing that it's okay for some of you to rush to crucify Bryant (armed with the same weapons I have - opinions, feelings, gut reactions, biased bit facts that favor your argument), but when someone offers a contradictory opinion it is meaningless. 

This whole conversation is meaningless.


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## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

*Re: Confirmed: Kobe wants to move on*



stockfire said:


> Taking that section out of the context of what I was trying to say devalues it. My point being that along the lines of "walk the walk" rather than that of "cheating on your wife is a-ok." I appreciate truncating my post to make it seem like that was what I was implying.


Guess I didn't read it the way you meant it, then. I get that you think I (and the rest of us pious types) should walk the walk and not expect Kobe to be perfect. I also read it that you defend his right to use honor in his sig. My response was not meant as an attack on you, personally....it was a shot at Kobe, because for him to try to imply that he is a man of honor is just pathetic, imo.

The fact is, you're right that none of us is perfect. BUT, I'd be hard pressed to think of a single occasion that I used anything even close to "strength and honor" in my signature. To try to portray himself as someone honorable, after subjecting his wife to national attention due to his complete lack of honor, is just bs, imo.



> and I realize i'm playing devil's advocate here (more than I realized since lots of you actually believe Kobe to be Satan), but is he now forbidden from using the word Honor? No matter what? Forever?


No, I don't think Kobe is satan. Thanks for taking what I said out of context in an effort to devalue it, though. Of course he is not forbidden to use the word honor in his signature....it's a free country and he can misrepresent himself in about any manner he wants to. But, when he does that, he (and his fans) should expect a national rolling of the eyes when he does, because only his biggest fans could believe that the guy is honorable.



> What if (sweet love watch out, here comes a hypothetical) he actually is trying to make a commitment to being a better man/person/husband. What if he realizes somewhere along the way that he really messed up and wants to rectify it? Which one of you have not had that feeling about something in our life?


Good for him, IF he is doing that. But I don't want him telling me how honorable he is until he actually HAS become a better man/person/husband, and even then I don't know how he ever makes up for humiliating us wife in front of the whole country.



> Maybe not. Maybe he's 100% jerk and always will be, I don't know. I just feel that pages going on in a tissy about Kobe using the word "honor" to be disappointing and more or less frivolous.


I'll go with the likelihood that he'll be 100% jerk forever, but hold out hope that I'm wrong. To say that I'm in a tissy over this kinda smacks of misrepresenting what I said, in an effort to devalue what I say, don't you think?

Go Blazers


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

First, anyone who asks why a woman, any woman, would drop rape charges knows nothing about what women are put through in rape trials. In all crimes, the accused is guilty until proven innocent and that is how it should be. But in no other crime does the victim have to prove she did not deserve it. A person flaunting wealth who is robbed will not have the jury told he/she was asking for it, but in any rape case the woman is presumed to have "asked for it", and everything she did, said, wore her entire life can be dragged out. Do you want everything you did in your entire life dragged out, every stupid thing you did in high school? (For example, a photo of this woman at her high school prom pulling her skirt up was used as "evidence". She acted dumb at a high school prom and therefore either was asking to be raped.) And that is leaving out death threats directed against her.

No one to the best of my knowledge EVER demanded athletes be "perfect". But how about acting like a decent human being?

Now, back to the subject at hand. The video shows Kobe Bryant denouncing his team and a named teammate in profane language in public. So, he trashed his employer to their customers. In most places that's a firing offense. It sure does not indicate he is attempting to turn over a new leaf. And it is not strength and honor.


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## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

ProZach said:


> Actually, the part in caps wasn't an implication, it was a fact. It's meaningful because if she was raped I would think she'd want justice. Not pack it in when faced with the prospect of sharing relevant information with the court.


How about a scenario where she was sleeping with a married guy? Doesn't say a lot for her character, but it might be important to her, not to drag her partner through the mud of a court trail. Or, maybe she was sleeping with a person in a position of power (governor, mayor, senator, CEO of Coors, whatever), where they convinced her not to expose their relationship when she couldn't win against Kobe and his staff of world class lawyers. 

There are lots of reasons why she wouldn't pursue justice if she was raped. Just because you think she would want that, doesn't mean she was up for being ridiculed in the national media by Kobe's attorneys. That's a little tougher than 'sharing relevant information with the court.' 

And it doesn't mean she wasn't raped.

Go Blazers


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

ProZach said:


> Something rubs me the wrong way when people demand perfection on and off the court from professional athletes, while they themselves fall well short. How do I know this? Because we all do. Yes you have the right to criticize, name-call, and hate certain players, but please quit spewing your self-righteous reasons as your motivation.
> 
> I wonder why that is... Now I know some of you love to root for the underdog and root against the big bad rich guy, but I'd love it if you could mix some logic and reasoning in with your emotion. Believe it or not, there are quite a few 'underdogs' who are what we like to call 'gold-diggers'.
> 
> He obviously betrayed his wife, but so do the MAJORITY of people in our society. If that's why you hate him, then you must hate all these other people as well. That's a lot of hate. :curse: :rant: :mad2: :azdaja:


I'm disappointed to see you go the same route as Stockfire, PZ. You usually have better posts than that. Can you point out ANY self-righteous reasons that people have mentioned? Because I can't see any - nowhere has anyone said "I'm better than Kobe". All I've argued is that Kobe's ridiculous signature line is hardly befitting him, partly because he's a basketball player which typically warrants no more social value than entertainment and partly because he comes across as a complete *** both on and off the court. As I said earlier I can think of many other professions where I'd expect and/or respect the person using that signature - firefighters, teachers, policemen, certain doctors, certain social workers, etc. So perhaps if you'd like to illustrate your point since I'm not seeing it there, that'd be great.

As to the rich thing, nowhere did I say root against the "big bad rich guy". I made a point about how it's quite possible that rich people get off in court cases. This isn't some grand theory that I've just postulated in the middle of a bowel movement. This is something that's darn near well to proven fact. But it seems like as soon as it may affect a basketball player, heavens, then let's all stick our head in the sand because, of course, we're all just self-righteous punks who are only disparaging poor Mr. Bryant's name because we're jealous, right? 

No, see, I don't like Kobe because he was egotistical enough to say he'd only play for certain teams come draft day. I don't like Kobe because of the way he throws cheap shots during games. I don't like Kobe because of his ridiculous feuding with Shaq. I don't like Kobe because of the way he handles himself when he does want to be traded, err I mean not traded, err I mean traded. I don't like Kobe because of the way he disparages his teammates. But most of all, I especially don't like Kobe because he's a Laker and I'm a Blazer fan. So please don't you or Stockfire or anyone else tell me why I don't like Kobe.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

ProZach said:


> Actually, the part in caps wasn't an implication, it was a fact. It's meaningful because if she was raped I would think she'd want justice. Not pack it in when faced with the prospect of sharing relevant information with the court.
> 
> I don't know if she's a gold-digger, it wasn't my intent to make it seem like I did. Just offering my opinion.
> 
> ...


You make a good point about people crucifying Bryant on the rape without conclusive evidence. I was debating your post and not theirs because your points were more interesting and thought out and I didn't really even bother reading this whole thread past the first and last few posts.

I'm not trying to say your opinion is meaningless. I just wanted to make the point that others have since made that an accuser refusing to testify without shield protection should not be considered evidence of the accused's innocence. Yeah, the judge decided to remove the shield, but even that isn't evidence of innocence. It just means that the judge decided that there _might_ be some grounds for reasonable suspicion there, based on the other semen found on her underwear, but that's a pretty low threshold. In any case, the accuser didn't recant her testimony and the district attorney didn't drop the charges until after the accuser decided not to testify.

You'd think _every_ rape victim would want justice, right? But the fact is the majority of rape cases don't ever get reported. Of those that do, many victims refuse to testify without the benefit of the shield law. And in the Kobe case, the accuser would be questioned about her sexual history under national scrutiny, so it shouldn't be hard to imagine that she possibly did get raped and wants justice, but simply didn't feel like she could endure the trial.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

crandc said:


> First, anyone who asks why a woman, any woman, would drop rape charges knows nothing about what women are put through in rape trials. In all crimes, the accused is guilty until proven innocent and that is how it should be. But in no other crime does the victim have to prove she did not deserve it. A person flaunting wealth who is robbed will not have the jury told he/she was asking for it, but in any rape case the woman is presumed to have "asked for it", and everything she did, said, wore her entire life can be dragged out. Do you want everything you did in your entire life dragged out, every stupid thing you did in high school? (For example, a photo of this woman at her high school prom pulling her skirt up was used as "evidence". She acted dumb at a high school prom and therefore either was asking to be raped.) And that is leaving out death threats directed against her.


You make many good points. I was under the impression that it was her sexual escapades around the time of her encounter with Bryant that was going to be allowed in court, not her entire life. I agree you shouldn't have to have your entire life up for public scrutiny, but why does Bryant deserve that? I know he's a celebrity, I know he's rich, but put yourself in his shoes. Think of all the people who are judging you and don't even know you. 

At any rate, she's accusing someone of rape. Even an accusation these days is enough to scar you for life despite the fact we live in a society where you're innocent until proven guilty. As much as I dislike Kobe, he doesn't deserve that if he didn't do it. Obviously though, the woman doesn't deserve to be raped and then later humiliated. Bottom line, I don't even know who to feel sorry for. But I'm not going to label him a rapist (not implying you are).



yakbladder said:


> As to the rich thing, nowhere did I say root against the "big bad rich guy". I made a point about how it's quite possible that rich people get off in court cases. This is something that's darn near well to proven fact. But it seems like as soon as it may affect a basketball player, heavens, then let's all stick our head in the sand because, of course, we're all just self-righteous punks who are only disparaging poor Mr. Bryant's name because we're jealous, right?


:biggrin: Yes, rich people get away with murder at times. But that's hardly reason enough to suspect every single one of them are automatically guilty every time they're accused of something. I brought up the whole 'gold-digger' thing because that's as real as rich people getting away with murder. It happens, and it happens often, but it doesn't happen all the time.

The fact I'm playing devil's advocate has nothing to do with him being a basketball player. It's because of first-hand experience in which I witnessed an innocent man's life become ruined by false accusations. 

Posts like #38 in this thread were what made me respond at all. He brought the rape charges on himself?? That's pure speculation.

I just don't like how calling a woman a whore is spewing filth, but calling a man a rapist is A-okay. It's a double standard. 



yakbladder said:


> All I've argued is that Kobe's ridiculous signature line is hardly befitting him, partly because he's a basketball player which typically warrants no more social value than entertainment and partly because he comes across as a complete *** both on and off the court.


I think we can all agree his signature is pretty pathetic.


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