# Spurs @ Raptors, Nov. 20



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>

















*San Antonio Spurs* (8-1) @ *Toronto Raptors* (4-6)
November 20th, 2004, 1:00 PM EST
TSN






































*Rafer Alston, Vince Carter, Jalen Rose, Chris Bosh, Loren Woods*





































*Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Bruce Bowen, Tim Duncan, Rasho Nesterovic*


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

The Raptors are going to be hard pressed to win today. Spurs are what, 8-1? Bosh is going to have to do a good job on Duncan, and Alston, Carter and Rose are going to have to make sure the likes of Ginobli, Barry and Parker don't have big games because they are the ones who are going to win the game for the Spurs. Duncan getting 25 and 10 is a given.

Watch for Parker especially to have a big game. He always lights up the Raps.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Bosh never gets a moment's rest. Even when we play teams like Seattle, it just so happens that Reggie Evans and Danny Fortson are putting up ranked rebounding numbers.

Duncan will be one of the most difficult assignments of the year. Hopefully Bosh can take advantage of his quickness to front Timmy and cut baseline on him at the other end.

Vince vs. Bruce should be interesting. Let's see if Vince gets in his face.

Ginobili has been on fire this season. Whoever guards him will have their hands full.

This will be a difficult game o say the least.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

We goto start having these threads up more than an hour before tip off. Anyways, yeah I'm excited to see how Vince plays against Bowen this season. Remember Jalen's comments on the Best Damn Sports Show Ever, after the game? Should be intresting.
For some reason I have a feeling Bosh will have a big game tonight, hopefully he can use his quickness to get by the big man.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> We goto start having these threads up more than an hour before tip off.


I agree. At the start of the season we had like three people who fought over the right the make these threads and now no one wants to?


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Ok, from now on, if the thread isn't made six hours before tip-off, it is free game for anyone to make it. So if I don't have a game thread up at 1:00 on a day where the game starts at 7:00, anyone can make it.

All you need to do is go to one of the old game threads, quote the original post with the player pictures, copy all of the code, make a new thread, post the code into the initial thread post, make the changes (pictures are at TSN.ca), and that's that.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

what are coaches should be doing in these matchups where Bosh's oppoent is like a Fortson, Duncan big strong guys is play Moiso at PF just for the defensive help, Bring Bosh off the bench in these type of situations.

4th qtr crunch time rotation
C Woods
PF Moiso
SM Bosh/Peterson
SG Carter
PG Rose


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

RAFER!!!


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Woods is off to a good start. That's a good sign.


----------



## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

on thr PBP it seems like a good first Qtr...

a little recap som1? :uhoh:


----------



## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

Rafer playing 2 gaurd??!!!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

RAPTORS B-CREW AT IT AGAIN!!!!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!!! RAPTORS WIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN!!!!!


----------



## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

damn what a game.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
33-9 to the raps on the last qtr!!!
and that was with:
palacio
rafer
mo pete
murray
bosh

that what i understood from the PBP in yahoo...
is that true?????

OMG!!!
what a win...........:yes: 
im so happy!

skip almost had a triple double!


----------



## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

With how good the 2nd unit has been doing itds time to get rid of Rose and Carter ASAP


----------



## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

That 4th Q was intense. Basketball is a fun game to watch when it's played the right way. Great effort from most. 

The biggest 4th Q comeback in franchise history and it was on my bday to boot. Made my day. Thanx Raps!


----------



## vi3t_boi11 (Aug 14, 2004)

Raps win again wit Rose n Carter on the bench, great game by alston, bosh, peterson, n murray


----------



## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Bosh played Duncan extremely well defensively in the second half. Wasn't afraid to attack him on offense either. If he can just develop his skills he really has a shot at being a "playa".


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

WOW!!!! What a game! Best game of the year so far!

Lamond Murray came up huge with his defense, rebounding, and hit clutch shots in the fourth quarter. He even stuffed TWO Duncan dunk attempt in the 4th!!! WOW!!!! I wanted Mitchell to bench Murray after his poor play in the first half (3 TOs, no point) but boy am I glad he didn't.

Mo Pete had a good game driving to the basket. Had a beautiful running hook in the first half. Played typical, hard nosed Mo Pete D down the stretch.

Chris Bosh took Duncan to school in the fourth, on offense and defense!!!

And once again, when Rose and Carter were on the floor the Raptors dug themselves a HUGE hole, going down 20. The whole team looks horrible whenever they are on the floor. Carter's offense used to make up for his poor defense, but 2 points? Unacceptable. Milt Palcio outplayed Carter. By a significant margin.

Just WOW!!! I'm so pumped over this win!


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Mo Pete is looking like he did when he was a rookie. He's starting to get more confidence finishing his drives to the basket. I am loving the makeup of this team (outside of Carter and Rose).

Whenever the Raps play hard (ie whenever Carter and Rose are on the bench) they can play with any team in this league!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

The Spurs have just been Rafed!


----------



## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> The Spurs have just been Rafed!


and Boshed.


----------



## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> WOW!!!! What a game! Best game of the year so far!
> 
> Lamond Murray came up huge with his defense, rebounding, and hit clutch shots in the fourth quarter. He even stuffed TWO Duncan dunk attempt in the 4th!!! WOW!!!! I wanted Mitchell to bench Murray after his poor play in the first half (3 TOs, no point) but boy am I glad he didn't.
> ...


all this, and not 1 word on rafer alston?..:uhoh:


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I think Rose's main problem is poor shot selection at certain times in games. At times, he looks for the open man and drives to the bucket but at others he takes bad shots.

Carter is a totally different story, he barely ever drives inside, and takes shots from anywhere on the court. 

Rose started pretty good today, but didn't have anything left afterwards. 

Still I rather keep Rose and trade away Carter.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Rafer Alston - best signing ever.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Whenever the Raps play hard (ie whenever Carter and Rose are on the bench) they can play with any team in this league!


great win today no doubt but lets not get ahead ourselves


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Didnt Vince have 3 steals and a block


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH</b>!
> 
> 
> all this, and not 1 word on rafer alston?..:uhoh:


LOL MY bad, I'm just used to seeing this from Alston. I almost expect it :grinning:


----------



## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

whenver Carter starts takin fadeaway shots, Rose seems to just follow...the combination of em is what kills us i think. remember Rose playin without carter in portland?

P.S: our actual one-two punch is Rafer-Bosh not Rose-Carter...and i love it.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

What a game... Great game all around. It is so obvious Vince isn't going inside the paint because he doesnt want to get injured. He didn't play well and really I aint going to hate on him. We won the game, and Vince never played well at all. Some of his shots did rim in then out but thats how it goes when you rely on your outside shot. I still think he is showing great attitude clapping and getting up when Lammond had the big jumper. Rafer Alston made some great plays and Palicio grabbed some key rebounds. When we were down by 19, Moe Pete went inside constently, so he could go to the free throw line is what we really need. To think beating a championship calibre team with our second unit is great. Bosh again is taking over responsiblities and that shot of the backboard was just great. Raptors played hard and really thats all I ask from them. I wouldn't care if we went 0-82 and 82 of them we lost by 5 points or less. Finally, Raptors starters need to learn from the bench players and take it inside more often.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Didnt Vince have 3 steals and a block


When VINCE CARTER, FRANCHISE PLAYER, has only one more point than he does have steals.... he better have a ****load of steals.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> great win today no doubt but lets not get ahead ourselves


I'm not getting ahead of myself. I said they can play with any team, I didn't say they can beat any team.


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

S.A played a horrible 4th (2 for 18)....the best thing for me to watch during that 4th quarter was the ridiculous Defense we played, by far the best full quarter effort I've seen this season

Our best lineup so far this year looks like...Rafer, Bosh, Lammond, Mopete and Bonner


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

This time around I must say Vince Carter played good defense. Of course he can play way better defense but he was active on this defensive end a lot. Hitting balls in the air and getting a lot of steals. Rose and Carter when on the court locked down Brent Barry/Manu Ginobili/Bruce Bowen (those 3's were wide open because of the Zone defense we put on them).


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> I think Rose's main problem is poor shot selection at certain times in games. At times, he looks for the open man and drives to the bucket but at others he takes bad shots.
> 
> .


same could be said for vince


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> When VINCE CARTER, FRANCHISE PLAYER, has only one more point than he does have steals.... he better have a ****load of steals.


Vince obviously isn't playing hard.. but I don't remember anybody really but Speedy complement Vince when he had 21 points against the Sonics. He didn't play well today, as a matter of fact he was horrible on the offensive end, but he did try today on the defensive end. Why do people always look at points for production. I really wouldn't care if Vince Carter scored 17 points as an average this year and was one of the best defensive players in the NBA. That would make me really happy.


----------



## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

rememeber one thing guys, when we were 4-1 everybody said we r goin hard to the playoffs and we'll were high from our great run. when we lost 5 straight games wa'll said we suck and bla bla bla...the win vs the spurs was awsom but still star cool, it was great but we gotta continue this with the next game!

GO RAPTORS!!! :yes:


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> I really wouldn't care if Vince Carter scored 17 points as an average this year *and was one of the best defensive players in the NBA*. That would make me really happy.


:uhoh:

:laugh:


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Was Vince sitting on the bench pouting, was he causing problems on the bench, nooo. He had a terrible night, but he played defense and cheered on his teammates. This is a big win for the team, wonderful effort from the 2nd unit


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> :uhoh:
> ...


Well before you laugh.. I said if he was.. I'm just trying to show that points shouldn't be a factor in deciding how well a player is playing.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Was Vince sitting on the bench pouting, was he causing problems on the bench, nooo. He had a terrible night, but he played defense and cheered on his teammates. This is a big win for the team, wonderful effort from the 2nd unit


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Was Vince sitting on the bench pouting, was he causing problems on the bench, nooo. He had a terrible night, but he played defense and cheered on his teammates. This is a big win for the team, wonderful effort from the 2nd unit


I agree with you 100%


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Well before you laugh.. I said if he was.. I'm just trying to show that points shouldn't be a factor in deciding how well a player is playing.


your point is moot.

vince was never in the same breath as some of the elite defenders of the game. 

you're right, alot more people would lay off him if he did have a great defensive game as part of his arsenal, but he doesn't. he's only known for his great offensive game, and once that goes out the window, what else does he have?


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Bosh and Alston, what a combo! Mitchell comes up big with this win at home, getting the most out of his players in the 4th quarter. 

These upcoming games against the knicks are crucial in our drive for the playoffs.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

For those defending Carter, how do you explain the Raptors defense and hustle markedly improving everytime he and Rose left the floor? I think while Carter might have played "good" Vince Carter defense, the team looked a lot better on both offense and defense when he was sitting.

Milt Palacio badly outplayed Carter tonight, and that, my friends, is sad.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with you 100%


WE *SHOULD* EXPECT VINCE TO BE MORE THAN A CHEERLEADER FOR THIS TEAM

gawd, how pathetic is it that people don't care if vince has a WAY below average game but is content with him as long as he cheers on the bench for his team...


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> WE *SHOULD* EXPECT VINCE TO BE MORE THAN A CHEERLEADER FOR THIS TEAM
> ...


I agree 100%

Cheerleaders don't make 13 million a year.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

But everyone and their mothers know Vince is just playing on borrowed time, he is most definitely gone, so why dont we just be patient with him. The fans of his own team boo him whilst he is on the team, after all the man is still human


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Well before you laugh.. I said if he was.. I'm just trying to show that points shouldn't be a factor in deciding how well a player is playing.


don't mind trick hes sipping the vince hateraide I sent him :laugh:


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> But everyone and their mothers know Vince is just playing on borrowed time, he is most definitely gone, so why dont we just be patient with him


so since he'll leave, we shouldn't expect him to paly his *** off out there?



it's already been 11 games and vince has been a no-show for 7 of it...


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so what about alvin willams then does he get a pass?


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Well before you laugh.. I said if he was.. I'm just trying to show that points shouldn't be a factor in deciding how well a player is playing.


Well forget 20+ ppg (numbers Vince is capable of, easily), he's not even averaging the 17 you'd be happy with.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> WE *SHOULD* EXPECT VINCE TO BE MORE THAN A CHEERLEADER FOR THIS TEAM
> ...


Obviously he should. Dont you think I want Vince Carter to put up 30 points a game. Calm down damn...:laugh: first of all he is playing like **** alright... I know that.. 2/9 is ****ing **** alright but I really dont care you know why because we won.. and thats all that matters. He is playing well below average obviously everybody in on the Raptors board knows it...but instead of being a hater.. I am trying to look at the good side of what he did today...


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> so what about alvin willams then does he get a pass?


a) he doesn't get $13 million a year
b) he's INJURED!!! HOLY **** GIVE THE MAN A BREAK!
c) if he was healthy, he'd be putting Vince to shame on the court the way Rafer is


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

That was fun. Toronto makes another run with Vince and Jalen planted on the pine. Mitchell has some brass ones.

Lamond Murray was electric in the fourth quarter, blocking two Tim Duncan two-handed dunks, hitting almost all of his shots, and showing us "a little somethin'-somethin'!" Lamond is very smooth on the court. His effortless style of play is deceptive, though. Lamond is starting to win me over.

Tim Duncan was _almost_ unstoppable tonight. Our team did a great job keeping him in check in the fourth. Every player on the floor contributed to keeping him from stealing the game. I'm very pleased that Duncan managed only a pair of assists, because it's his underrated passing game that is often the difference maker.

Mitchell ran a zone defence today, something KO shunned last season. It looks like our players are capable of playing very good zones. We limited San Antonio's looks, rotated quickly, and rebounded on long shot attempts. Excellent coaching.

Something that shouldn't go unnoticed was Vince's job of getting Bowen into foul trouble early in the game. Having Bowen out for most of the first half was important to the game result. Otherwise Vince played poor offence and good defence. What a change that is.

Rafer took a lot of shots today, but I'll let that slide when he manages 11 assists on a single turnover. His defence really improved in the second half of the game as he kept Tony Parker under control. I would trade two of his three-point attempts for two more dribble-drives, but it's hard to argue when he shoots 47% at his position.

Loren Woods played limited minutes but he was productive. When he gets out to a good start, it is always a good sign. I think his biggest issue is confidence, and games like this will erase his self-doubt. He is working well with Chris in the post. His defensive rebounding is unsteady, but he uses his length well on the other end of the floor.

Bosh was determined to attack Tim Duncan tonight, running circles around him and forcing San Antonio to foul him. He was fearless in the post. I don't know what he could've done to prevent Duncan's hook shots--what can you do?--but he always got a body on him, got a hand in his face, and tried to keep him away from the rim. He especially did a good job at mid-range on Duncan, where Tim had very few jumpshots and bankers today, which is uncharacteristic. Bosh also managed to commit only one foul in the second half, keeping himself in the game and ensuring that no San Antonio post player was going to get anything for free.

That being said, Chris looked overwhelmed in the first quarter on the defensive glass. He and Loren allowed a lot of offensive rebounds and put-backs which should've been prevented. This is an ongoing issue and hopefully we'll have Araujo playing more and more as the year goes on. Hoffa doesn't allow a lot of offensive rebounds when he is in the paint.

Mo Pete and Matt Bonner both helped a great deal tonight. If Mo continues to play like this his contract will be justified. Bonner, as always, played like a ten-year vet.

Nice to get some momentum (p=mv) going into a second difficult road swing.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Well forget 20+ ppg (numbers Vince is capable of, easily), he's not even averaging the 17 you'd be happy with.


Yes excatly thats why I said.. I would be happy if he could just step his defense of game up and pull his point average to somewhere around 25-20 but of course the way he is playing I had to say 17.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> so what about alvin willams then does he get a pass?


Do I really need to say anything about this? [strike]You really can't be that stupid. Then again...[/strike]

Oh, the beauty of the ignore option.


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

THIS WAS A 19 4TH QUARTER COMEBACK AGIANST ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS IN THE NBA, AND ALL WE CAN TALK ABOUT IS FREAKING VINCE CARTER

how bout Lammond Murray, Rafer Alston.... and Chris Bosh schooling Tim Duncan in the final frame  

how bout Mitchell going small ball, with Rafer and Milt out there at the same time, thats a guttsy move

I'm sick of hearing about Vince...when he's gone or has a good game then post all you want


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> but I really dont care you know why because we won..


this is the most pathetic argument used i have ever seen...

do you how many times we could've used vince during the 5 game losing streak? do you how many times vince could've gotten us a victory or put the raps over the hump?

but hey, who cares how vince plays right as long as we win, right? who cares that he has the power to turn this team from mediocrity to a very good one? 

we've won 5 of the past 11 games...so who cares about vince, with a few of the losses being so close with vince having no impact on them whatsoever. who really cares?


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> THIS WAS A 19 4TH QUARTER COMEBACK AGIANST ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS IN THE NBA, AND ALL WE CAN TALK ABOUT IS FREAKING VINCE CARTER
> 
> how bout Lammond Murray, Rafer Alston.... and Chris Bosh schooling Tim Duncan in the final frame
> ...


I agree 100% :laugh: naw but really.. I talked about it earlier.. Milt pulled down some key rebounds which sealed the deal for us. I always knew that Yogi Stewart deal for Murray was going to pay off in the long run. Anybody want to get red of Murray's contract now?


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> THIS WAS A 19 4TH QUARTER COMEBACK AGIANST ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS IN THE NBA, AND ALL WE CAN TALK ABOUT IS FREAKING VINCE CARTER
> 
> how bout Lammond Murray, Rafer Alston.... and Chris Bosh schooling Tim Duncan in the final frame
> ...


Why shouldn't we be riding Vince for his poor play, you can't say "OH well, we won and Vince had a pulse and cheered his team on! VINSANITY!"

Vince deserves HEAVY criticism for this game. He's a liability on offense. He put in some effort on D, but his D was still below average. He deserves to be ridden until he steps up.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> this is the most pathetic argument used i have ever seen...
> ...


Man your taking everything I say out of context. If we win and Vince doesn't have an impact would you really care? Well of course everybody wants Vince to be an impact in every victory we have. He didnt play well at all in all of the games on the road trip. Of course I do care because if Vince had impact in those games... if he even went 50% or 45% FG percentage in those games we would have won. I never said I didnt care about Vince... I said if he doesn't play well and we dont win who really cares. This is because we won and it doesn't matter how we won the game. Even if it was 60-59... it may have been an ugly game to watch but its another win.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Man your taking everything I say out of context. If we win and Vince doesn't have an impact would you really care? Well of course everybody wants Vince to be an impact in every victory we have. He didnt play well at all in all of the games on the road trip. Of course I do care because if Vince had impact in those games... if he even went 50% or 45% FG percentage in those games we would have won. I never said I didnt care about Vince... I said if he doesn't play well and we dont win who really cares. This is because we won and it doesn't matter how we won the game. Even if it was 60-59... it may have been an ugly game to watch but its another win.


, i'm done with you.

keep clapping for every win, but at least i realize this team will just stay mediocre unless vince actually starts 'playing' out there on a more consistent basis.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Man your taking everything I say out of context. If we win and Vince doesn't have an impact would you really care? Well of course everybody wants Vince to be an impact in every victory we have. He didnt play well at all in all of the games on the road trip. Of course I do care because if Vince had impact in those games... if he even went 50% or 45% FG percentage in those games we would have won. I never said I didnt care about Vince... I said if he doesn't play well and we dont win who really cares. This is because we won and it doesn't matter how we won the game. Even if it was 60-59... it may have been an ugly game to watch but its another win.


Who cares? If one of our other guys miss one shot, Murray doesn't get those two blocks on Duncan we lose this game. And then it would be alright to criticise Carter?

You have deeply flawed logic.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Who cares? If one of our other guys miss one shot, Murray doesn't get those two blocks on Duncan we lose this game. And then it would be alright to criticise Carter?
> ...


Alright... I have said many times.. I do care and want carter to step up and carry the team. Really I wanted him out on the floor, but obviously it didnt happen because he wasn't playing well. Don't you want Carter to care this team and him averaging around 25-27 points and we being a top 5 team in the East like we were back then of course. I am just saying today we won and I am happy, but Vince Carter still needs to get out there and start driving to the net and getting to the freethrow line


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Alright... I have said many times.. I do care and want carter to step up and carry the team. Really I wanted him out on the floor, but obviously it didnt happen because he wasn't playing well. Don't you want Carter to care this team and him averaging around 25-27 points and we being a top 5 team in the East like we were back then of course. I am just saying today we won and I am happy, but Vince Carter still needs to get out there and start driving to the net and getting to the freethrow line


Carter doesn't even need to score 25 points. But he has to score more than 4. I can see you agree that Carter need to improve, but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> , i'm done with you.
> ...


See again you never asked me do I think the team can successed with vince Carter and Jalen Rose playing this way and it is obvious they will not. Thats like saying well Miami be a championship team even if shaq is mediocre and that is not the case. Every team in the NBA needs their franchise player to step up... the teams that do so when the NBA title.. For Toronto to be succssful the need Vince Carter to step up or the season maybe over.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Carter doesn't even need to score 25 points. But he has to score more than 4. I can see you agree that Carter need to improve, but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.


Yes and I fully agree.. he shouldn't be the one on the bench cheering he doesn't get payed for that.. he gets payed to be our Franchise player. We invested 14 million dollars in him and he should be able to step up in any giving situtation, this is why he is in the NBA. If he can't do it he should have taken the Music route in his life. I was just saying atleast this year he shows that he is happy that the team is winning. Last year he would be on the bench and wouldn't even think about whats going on the court, instead he would be crying like a baby.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.





> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.





> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.





> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.





> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.





> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.





> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.





> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> but by the same token he doesn't deserve any props for playing the role of cheerleader on the bench. Any scrub should do as much.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes and I fully agree.. he shouldn't be the one on the bench cheering he doesn't get payed for that.. he gets payed to be our Franchise player. We invested 14 million dollars in him and he should be able to step up in any giving situtation, this is why he is in the NBA. If he can't do it he should have taken the Music route in his life. I was just saying atleast this year he shows that he is happy that the team is winning. Last year he would be on the bench and wouldn't even think about whats going on the court, instead he would be crying like a baby.


Of course last year Vince would be on the bench crying. But that is only because last year the Raptors were a horrible, boring team.

I really don't get what you're trying to say here...


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> I really don't get what you're trying to say here...


with all the talent and athleticism, vc can be the most prolific cheerleader in the history of the nba

:woot: :woot: :woot:


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> a) he doesn't get $13 million a year
> ...


could of should of would of blah blah blah like I said vince catches all the heat but we signed alvin to long term deal woth over 40mil and hes missed almost as much games as vince but alvin gets a pass right? get outta here


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Of course last year Vince would be on the bench crying. But that is only because last year the Raptors were a horrible, boring team.
> ...


I am saying I agree... he shouldn't get props for being on the bench cheering... He doesnt get 14 million dollars for doing that and I am saying if he cant lead this raptors team maybe he should go back to playing the Saxophone.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> I am saying I agree... he shouldn't get props for being on the bench cheering... He doesnt get 14 million dollars for doing that and I am saying if he cant lead this raptors team maybe he should go back to playing the Saxophone.





> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> I still think he is showing great attitude clapping and getting up when Lammond had the big jumper.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Mr_B, [strike]you must be slow[/strike]. No one is picking on Vince for his injuries.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember a few years ago we gave a 6 year 24 mil deal to a certain player and he did nuttin but cheer and look pretty on the sideline *caugh*yogi stuwart*caugh*


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> I remember a few years ago we gave a 6 year 24 mil deal to a certain player and he did nuttin but cheer and look pretty on the sideline *caugh*yogi stuwart*caugh*


Oh... kay.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!


yes i said he is showing great attitude something he would never show last year, because last game somebody said how he had a bad attitude and that was false. That isn't really giving him props its just stating something I saw him doing, which is good but I still would like him to step up and take the responsiblities as a Franchise player should.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

I always laugh when I see a *RAPTOR* thread turn into an anti-vince thread and what even more funny is that its always being started by the same people


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> could of should of would of blah blah blah like I said vince catches all the heat but we signed alvin to long term deal woth over 40mil and hes missed almost as much games as vince but alvin gets a pass right? get outta here


Guess what, Alvin has played more games with through an injury than Vince has sat out - and Vince has sat out a lot of games. Alvin is tough, and he's a competitor who tries hard every game. Vince has been showing no such effort this season.

"Oh but we signed Alvin and Yogi to long term deals!"

Get that weak **** outta here... neither Alvin nor Yogi's contracts are even close to Vince's, neither of them are paid to be our FRANCHISE PLAYER, and by the way - guess who Yogi was traded for - Lamond Murray! Are you gonna tell me, after this game, that you don't want him on our team?

[strike]Go back to the zoo....[/strike]


----------



## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Just for informations sake...

Over the previous 3 seasons...

Vince missed - 70 games due to injury.

Alvin missed - 30 games due to injury.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> I always laugh when I see a *RAPTOR* thread turn into an anti-vince thread and what even more funny is that its always being started by the same people


Yeah man, I don't see any connection whatsoever.

Raptors play the Spurs on November 21st, 2004.

Vince Carter scores 4 points on 2/9 shooting and over $158,500 a game.

Nope, I don't see the connection either.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> yes i said he is showing great attitude something he would never show last year, because last game somebody said how he had a bad attitude and that was false. That isn't really giving him props its just stating something I saw him doing, which is good but I still would like him to step up and take the responsiblities as a Franchise player should.


showing support for teammates is a given, it's nothing to be commended for. it would be just as pointless for me to thank the clerk at mcdonalds for "taking my order".


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> I always laugh when I see a *RAPTOR* thread turn into an anti-vince thread and what even more funny is that its always being started by the same people


I hope you dont think I am anti-Vince because seriously.. Vince has been my favourite player from when he came out of NC. I really just to don't like it that people just forget that 3 he hit against portland or how he killed Detroit at the end. Its 10 games in the season.. it is easy to heat up and it is easy to be cold... Lebron James is leading in points per game and Ray Allen is playing like a top 3 player. T-Mac was struggling until the game last night. The sonics own the best record in the league. Are all these things going to stay the same? Probably not.. Does Vince have enough time to get on track? Of course and I think he will


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> showing support for teammates is a given, it's nothing to be commended for. it would be just as pointless for me to thank the clerk at mcdonalds for "taking my order".


Yes this is why I compared him to last year


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> I hope you dont think I am anti-Vince because seriously.. Vince has been my favourite player from when he came out of NC. I really just to don't like it that people just forget that 3 he hit against portland or how he killed Detroit at the end. Its 10 games in the season.. it is easy to heat up and it is easy to be cold... Lebron James is leading in points per game and Ray Allen is playing like a top 3 player. T-Mac was struggling until the game last night. The sonics own the best record in the league. Are all these things going to stay the same? Probably not.. Does Vince have enough time to get on track? Of course and I think he will


it wasen't directed at you don't worry lol


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> 
> 
> Alvin missed - 30 games due to injury.


now add the 72 games or so the raps got left


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yup alvin gets a pass I see how it is & go back to the zoo? touchy touchy are u upset? grow up u should know better then to get upset over a few words on a screen now go sit in the corner


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Why shouldn't we be riding Vince for his poor play, you can't say "OH well, we won and Vince had a pulse and cheered his team on! VINSANITY!"
> ...


I agree, we won this game, but you won't win a lot of games when your stars aren't contributing. It's as simple as that.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> now add the 72 games or so the raps got left


Did you forget that Alvin came back more than a month early from surgery just to help the Raps get into the playoffs? Unfortunately, he re-aggravated his injury, and he hasn't been able to get back since. At least he's never given up on the team, he wishes he could play right now, Vince on the other hand wishes he was out of town.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> now add the 72 games or so the raps got left


What would you rather have - Vince playing like this and hurting the team, or Vince not playing at all?


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> yup alvin gets a pass I see how it is & go back to the zoo? touchy touchy are u upset? grow up u should know better then to get upset over a few words on a screen now go sit in the corner


Who said I was getting touchy & upset?

If a bouncer tells you off at a party, are you gonna say that to him, too?


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *Numbed One !*
> Why shouldn't we be riding Vince for his poor play


Prolly because it has pretty much become redundant, and we been saying the same **** after just about every game

My point was, after such a thrilling victory...why not talk about the positives instead of another look how much Vince sucked tonight, look at those stupid jumpshots, look at his lack of effort

I'm pretty sick of dude too, but he obviously ain't a key factor of this team anymore, and soon enough may not even be part of this team


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you forget that Alvin came back more than a month early from surgery just to help the Raps get into the playoffs? Unfortunately, he re-aggravated his injury, and he hasn't been able to get back since.


so? in the sports world its not about what u have done its what have you done for me latly and what has alvin done as of late? *looks over at raptor bench sees alvin in a pretty suit & tie*


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> so? in the sports world its not about what u have done its what have you done for me latly and what has alvin done as of late? *looks over at raptor bench sees alvin in a pretty suit & tie*


What has Vince done for anyone lately except ***** about getting the **** out of here?


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

What a great game. Well, at least 3 quarters of a great game. Starters got smoked again in the third with VC again having zero impact on a game. 

That's only 10 of the 11 games that VC has failed to play like a star, and only ALL 11 that he has watched players on his own team and other teams put up better numbers and lead their team. 

I figure we have paid VC about 1.7 mill so far this season. Money well spent? Can't we just suspend him for a few games for lack of effort and save the salary?

And we were worried about the 5 mill going to Rafer? Looks cheap now.

The 'small ball' lineup with Murray at PF worked like magic tonight.

See the difference when your perimeter defenders actually hustle and rotate properly. Rafer, Milt, and MoP on the perimeter caused problems for the spurs guards and didn't allow wide open looks like Jalen and Vince do.
Murray at PF with several strips and the two huge blocks on Duncan. Wow.

Rafer kept attacking the rim and getting layups and FT's. Bosh was very aggressive from the start. Good games from almost everyone.

Popovich should have gone big against this lineup and used Nesterovic and Duncan to pound the boards.

This game should really energize our guys and show them that hard work pays off.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> so? in the sports world its not about what u have done its what have you done for me latly and what has alvin done as of late? *looks over at raptor bench sees alvin in a pretty suit & tie*


If it is "what have you done for me lately" then why do you defend Vince? He's done jack squat "lately." Playing doesn't count as "something", especially when you hurt your team by doing so.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> 
> 
> Prolly because it has pretty much become redundant, and we been saying the same **** after just about every game
> ...


Fair enough, you make a good point.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> 
> 
> See the difference when your perimeter defenders actually hustle and rotate properly. Rafer, Milt, and MoP on the perimeter caused problems for the spurs guards and didn't allow wide open looks like Jalen and Vince do.
> Murray at PF with several strips and the two huge blocks on Duncan. Wow.


I've always been a Lamond Murray fan, ever since his strong play in the first training camp he took part in as a Raptor (when he got injured), but tonight Murray made me a believer. 

I have come away from this game thinking about him more than any other Raptor, and thats saying a lot when you look at the games Alston and Bosh had. Wow indeed.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> 
> 
> I figure we have paid VC about 1.7 mill so far this season. Money well spent? Can't we just suspend him for a few games for lack of effort and save the salary?
> ...


 can we also do the same for alvin?


----------



## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

This board is becomming REALGM. I have to surf through so many bad posts to read anything of value.

Can we seriously not have a vince debate sticky? so we don't have to listen to the garbage anymore. 

"Vince is great" 

"no he sucks" 

"No he's great" 

"Less filling"

Its becomming predictable and painful


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Mr_B seems intent on comparing VC to an injured player who hasn't been able to suit up this year. I thought VC has been healthy for 2 years? I thought he was a star?

Don't quite get that. Is that what you have to compare VC's performance to in order to reach a favourable opinion on him? Certainly hasn't been better than any healthy players.

I guess the question is would we rather pay VC 12.5 mill for his current production or have him sit on the IL making 6. MLSE would probably prefer the latter. Most fans too.

Some interesting stats.

Raps have their biggest comeback in franchise history today against the Spurs with VC on the bench.

Raps longest win streak in franchise history came after VC quit on the season and his lowly teammates made a huge run to make the playoffs.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> can we also do the same for alvin?


No, because hes injured.

You really have no clue what you're talking about, Mr_B.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DAllatt</b>!
> This board is becomming REALGM. I have to surf through so many bad posts to read anything of value.
> 
> Can we seriously not have a vince debate sticky? so we don't have to listen to the garbage anymore.
> ...


Judging by the rain of boos that fell on Carter at the Spurs game today, I think we will be seeing lots of venom spit in Vince's direction until he finally gets traded. I doubt having a sticky would lead to a productive argument. Some posters seem determined to take pot-shots at Vince and his supporters and vice versa.

That being said, I hope the posters on this board will respect the opinions of others and will do their best to keep discussions on-topic.

Remember, there is a Poster of the Month award at stake!


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> No, because hes injured.


well were not paying him all this money to be a cheerleader right?


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> well were not paying him all this money to be a cheerleader right?


Hes injured, what do you not understand. An injury is not under your control. Playing like *** is.

You're fighting a terribly foolish fight, Mr_B.


----------



## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> I doubt having a sticky would lead to a productive argument.


I'm hardly suggesting it will develop into a productive arguement. I'm not that naive. However it will isoltate the drivel. And keep the game threads for what they are designed to be.

This is not the first ruined game thread this year.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

I wouldnt go as far as to compare Alvin Williams to Vince Carter, they are two completely different individuals, but it does suck to come on here and every thread seemingly looks like an anti-vince thread. Lets cut the man some slack, he has not been a cancer like some make him out to be, toronto fans boo him everytime he touches the ball and then cheer when he does something right. Dont you think all this affect the way he is playing. Anyways it looks like its a bad time to support Vince, but will see how long this drama unfolds


----------



## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

What a comeback! The unit that Mitchell put out there in the 4th quarter got the job done. They played with energy,got the crowd into the game & hit clutch shots. Not alot more you can ask. I hope this win gives this team the boost that it has needed lately.

:clap: :clap:


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> Remember, there is a Poster of the Month award at stake!


*Drools*


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> *Drools*


Add me to the Artest club!!

and amazing comeback by you guys tonight. Rafer should get all-star consideration this year!


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Someone should start an "Artest got what he deserved" club. I would but... starting clubs just isn't my thing.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

*Congrats on the Win*

I just wanted to say: Yall played an amazing 4th quarter. Your guys never gave up, played with heart and enthusiasm and just took us to school. Bosh, Murray, Peterson, Alston and Palacio did great for you. Yall 100% deserved to win. You outplayed us, and the way yall came back deserves a lot of credit. Good Job guys! And good luck the rest of the season(until we play yall again)!


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Thanks a lot.
Good luck to you guys aswell, although you guys probably won't need it.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Congrats on the Win*



> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> I just wanted to say: Yall played an amazing 4th quarter. Your guys never gave up, played with heart and enthusiasm and just took us to school. Bosh, Murray, Peterson, Alston and Palacio did great for you. Yall 100% deserved to win. You outplayed us, and the way yall came back deserves a lot of credit. Good Job guys! And good luck the rest of the season(until we play yall again)!


add me to your club... i would pm you but your box is full


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

GREAT comeback.

Mitchell put a tremendous small lineup out there that really gave us new life and energy. That lineup has some great chemistry together. We shut down Duncan in the fourth after he was taking it to us in the first half. 

We did what we're best at, creating turnovers and running it up the other teams throat. 

Bosh, Alston played awesome, as well as Murray in the clutch, and Mo-Pete finally had an offensive breakout game.


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*WHAT A GREAT WIN * 

i am totally stoked over this win and finally got me outta my slump that coincided with the raps (strange)

GREAT JOB BY THE YOUNGER FUTURE STARS


----------

