# This guy in his youth would have totally shut Shaq down!



## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

I have watched Shaq all his career. The ONLY man to ever TOTALLY shut Shaq down was Charles Barkley in the playoffs that one year that Pippen was on the Rockets. Barkley could only shut him down for 1 quarter at a time. Barkley was strong enough and had a low center of gravity so that he could just keep Shaq out of the paint and Shaq had to take very tough shots. He would also foul Shaq VERY HARD if Shaq was about to score and Shaq would miss both freethrows most of the times because of how hard the foul was.
BTW, if you allowed Barkley 24 fouls, he would Shut down Shaq for a WHOLE GAME, but he was only allowed 6 fouls so he could only do it for 1 quarter. Barkley didn't have the height to block Shaq, but Giant Gonzalez DID and then some.
Now Giant Gonzalez was already OVER THE hill by the time he came to the US. Giants like this guy, Yao Ming, etc need to come to the NBA when they're 17 not when they're 22 or 25. Giant Gonzalez was 7'7 1/4" and 400lbs even at age 17. He was MUCH quicker than George Muresan or Arvidas Sabonis.
He would be the first man that Shaq EVER played against who was bigger, stronger, taller, wider, and more powerful than he was.
Shaq always used a drop step, and then used his shoulder as a battering ram or an elbow to the chin to send the defender stumbling backwards and then get the easy dunk. Well if Shaq tried this against a 400lbs Giant Gonzalez, it would be like Shaq's running into a brick wall.
Shaq's WHOLE offensive game depended on his ability to push defenders out of their defensive position with ease.
He couldn't do that to Barkley, and would NEVER be able to do that to Giant Gonzalez.
Here's a look at just how good Giant Gonzalez used to be when he was younger.
I'm amazed at his speed an agility for a 7'7 1/4" 400 pounder. He's faster, quicker, and more agile than OLD NBA Sabonis and Muresan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwpO_OMdGqg


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## The Big Dipper (Oct 23, 2012)

I would love to see Jorge vs Shaq.


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## JBKB (Jan 12, 2013)

Shaq was one of the most horrible players to play the game of basketball. He only succeeded because the NBA progressively made rules that hepled sustain his dominance. Shaq had no skills, and please don't tell me it took skill for a seven-foot guy to dunk. The man even missed 5935 of his "FREE" throws. THAT'S A HUGE NUMBER! lol Don't get me wrong, I do like the guy as a person and respect his fearless boldness to challenge and put Chuck in his rightful place on live tv (unlike wimpy Ernie and Kenny).


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Anyone want to translate that into a language I understand


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

JBKB said:


> Shaq was one of the most horrible players to play the game of basketball. He only succeeded because the NBA progressively made rules that hepled sustain his dominance. Shaq had no skills, and please don't tell me it took skill for a seven-foot guy to dunk. The man even missed 5935 of his "FREE" throws. THAT'S A HUGE NUMBER! lol Don't get me wrong, I do like the guy as a person and respect his fearless boldness to challenge and put Chuck in his rightful place on live tv (unlike wimpy Ernie and Kenny).


You CLEARLY never saw young Shaq. Yeah - he was a bit of a slug relying on his size when he got older. But young Shaq? Dear GOD - he was a pure athlete. Gonzalez may have stood a good chance shutting down old Shaq, but young Shaq? He was so fast, so powerful, so QUICK... Until he realized he didn't need to be in peak condition to dominate, at which point he stopped. Shaq was truly the MDP. Most. Dominant. Player.


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## JBKB (Jan 12, 2013)

ChrisWoj said:


> You CLEARLY never saw young Shaq. Yeah - he was a bit of a slug relying on his size when he got older. But young Shaq? Dear GOD - he was a pure athlete. Gonzalez may have stood a good chance shutting down old Shaq, but young Shaq? He was so fast, so powerful, so QUICK... Until he realized he didn't need to be in peak condition to dominate, at which point he stopped. Shaq was truly the MDP. Most. Dominant. Player.


I watched Shaq play in his early years, and thought he was a horrible player then, and have not changed that opinion about him throughout his entire career. I could never pinpoint his skill because well... he didn't have any!

Dunking is not an incredible skill! What else did Shaq do besides dunk? His entire career consisted of waiting by the rim for a pass that may lead to a dunk. NOTHING ELSE! If he didn't dunk, he would lay it in. Anywhere slightly away from the rim, Shaq sucked! He could not hit threes, free-throws, or do anything other than dunk! BIG DEAL, you're a seven-footer who can dunk! 

Any attempt to shut down his dunking referees simply whistled Shaq to the free throw line. Shaq sucked! He was only dominate because Stern made Shaq's life easy by softening the league, making Shaq indefensible. Shaq possessed absolutely no skills! 

Shaq was just a product the NBA sold to the fans. They overhyped his performances for the sake of revenue. His career consisted of nothing but DUNKS! Not impressive! SHAQ SUCKED, and his inflated points stat is a shame!


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

I remember when Dennis Rodman used to give Shaq fits when he was with the Spurs...


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Nobody was ever going to stop Shaq.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

JBKB said:


> I watched Shaq play in his early years, and thought he was a horrible player then, and have not changed that opinion about him throughout his entire career. I could never pinpoint his skill because well... he didn't have any!
> 
> Dunking is not an incredible skill! What else did Shaq do besides dunk? His entire career consisted of waiting by the rim for a pass that may lead to a dunk. NOTHING ELSE! If he didn't dunk, he would lay it in. Anywhere slightly away from the rim, Shaq sucked! He could not hit threes, free-throws, or do anything other than dunk! BIG DEAL, you're a seven-footer who can dunk!
> 
> ...


So his post game doesn't get any credit at all? You know absolutely nothing at all about what makes a player good. Shaq had limited offensive abilities but to say Shaq had no skills what so ever is not only stupid to beyond belief but it just proves my point that you know nothing at all about the game of basketball, and that you're a troll (which begs the question as to why I'm responding to the stupid shit you say but eh w/e).


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

JBKB said:


> *I watched Shaq play in his early years, and thought he was a horrible player then, and have not changed that opinion about him throughout his entire career. I could never pinpoint his skill because well... he didn't have any!*
> 
> Dunking is not an incredible skill! What else did Shaq do besides dunk? His entire career consisted of waiting by the rim for a pass that may lead to a dunk. NOTHING ELSE! If he didn't dunk, he would lay it in. Anywhere slightly away from the rim, Shaq sucked! He could not hit threes, free-throws, or do anything other than dunk! BIG DEAL, you're a seven-footer who can dunk!
> 
> ...


The ****?? Shaq did not suck, he's one of the best big man of all-time. In what planet you live on where you would want Shaq to shoot a three. He dunk's because his ****ing body was made for it.


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## JBKB (Jan 12, 2013)

Sorry guys! When I think of great players I think of Jordan, Kobe, LBJ, Magic, Westbrook, Parker, Durant, Blake, Garnett, and I can go on and on with many others, but SHAQ would never be mentioned. 

@IRVING What post skills? Shaq backed his guarding opponents in with his physical force, and the league disallowed any defensive physical force to sufficiently match Shaq's force which led to EASY dunks and layups. Shaq sucked! THANK YOU for at least saying he had limtited offensive skills. Very few would even admit that! 

@DR.D

A seven-footer who can dunk doesn't really impress me! Dunks are just something nice to look at, but nothing more than that. Remember that the league didn't always allow slam dunks. If the league went back to banning dunks, players like Shaq and Dwight Howard would have had NO NBA CAREER! They offer nothing else to the league except dunks!


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## JBKB (Jan 12, 2013)

NO KOBE, NO WADE, NO FOUR RINGS FOR SHAQ! Sorry for the caps.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

This guy, man. Yeesh city.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

King Joseus said:


> This guy, man. Yeesh city.


Indeed. It's not even worth it.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

suckers


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

This thread needs a "Shaq SMASH" gif or something


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

JBKB said:


> Sorry guys! When I think of great players I think of Jordan, Kobe, LBJ, Magic, Westbrook, Parker, Durant, Blake, Garnett, and I can go on and on with many others, but SHAQ would never be mentioned.
> 
> @IRVING *What post skills? Shaq backed his guarding opponents in with his physical force, and the league disallowed any defensive physical force to sufficiently match Shaq's force which led to EASY dunks and layups. *Shaq sucked! THANK YOU for at least saying he had limtited offensive skills. Very few would even admit that!
> 
> ...


Do you even know what shooting from the post is? Please be honest here (I know he's a troll guys but I want to see where this one goes).

The rest of the post doesn't even deserve a response.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

So you're telling me, that this guy would shut down Shaq?


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

JBKB said:


> I watched Shaq play in his early years, and thought he was a horrible player then, and have not changed that opinion about him throughout his entire career. I could never pinpoint his skill because well... he didn't have any!
> 
> Dunking is not an incredible skill! What else did Shaq do besides dunk? His entire career consisted of waiting by the rim for a pass that may lead to a dunk. NOTHING ELSE! If he didn't dunk, he would lay it in. Anywhere slightly away from the rim, Shaq sucked! He could not hit threes, free-throws, or do anything other than dunk! BIG DEAL, you're a seven-footer who can dunk!
> 
> ...


Clearly you don't know basketball and have not actually watched Shaq. Yes he dunnked a lot and sure some of it was simply due to strength and size but he also got a ton of his looks because he established position, has great footwork and actually had a soft touch around the rim(ironic considering his free throw struggles). He also loved to have a baseline turn around over his shoulder(I guess a hook shot?).

Since when do threes and free throws determine the quality of a player? So I guess Duncan was a terrible player early on because he wasn't a very good free throw shooter and didn't make threes?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Skills are overrated when you can put the ball in the hoop often at a high percentage anyways. 

It's like the slower runner telling the faster runner that his form is all wrong when he has never beat him in a race or been able to match his run times. It's like, what's the point of the sport again?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

there are myriad different kind of skills depending on the role each player is going to play - we already addressed this idiocy, it's like saying Ray Lewis isnt a good football player because he doesnt throw touchdowns


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

...


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

Knick Killer said:


> So you're telling me, that this guy would shut down Shaq?


He was too old, heavy, muscular, slow, and injured to play at that time. He was 475 lbs in that photo you posted.
I'm talking about Jorge at age 17-21 when he was 400lbs, and much faster than NBA Sabonis and Muresan.
He was already an old has been by the time he came to the US.
Shaq's whole offensive game involved ILLEGAL offensive fouls. Dropstep, using the shoulder as a battering ram to create space to get the easy dunk, or Dropstep, elbow to the chin to stun the defender and create space and then get the easy dunk or shot.
These moves would NEVER work against somebody who's bigger, stronger, and taller than Shaq.
Can you name even one player Shaq played against in the NBA who was Bigger, Stronger, AND TALLER?
If Shaq t

These OFFENSIVE FOUL move worked against Mutumbo and Robinson, but they would be Useless against a 7'7 1/4" 400lbs Mountain of a Man like young Jorge Gonzalez or even a young 7'0" 380lbs Paul Wight.
Shaq would be forced to take shots from outside the paint or be on the receiving end of the hardest fouls in NBA history if he went into the paint against these monsters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLDXw5lC-LM
http://s2.beta.photobucket.com/user/Sal29/media/ShaqvsBigshow.jpg.html?sort=2&o=87

Here's Hulk Hogan and Shaq
http://s2.beta.photobucket.com/user/Sal29/media/HoganShaq-1.jpg.html?sort=2&o=110

Here's Hulk Hogan and Jorge Gonzalez.
This comparison shows you how badly Jorge would Dwarf Shaq in bulk, height, and strength.
http://s2.beta.photobucket.com/user/Sal29/media/HulkHoganJorgeGonzalez.jpg.html?sort=2&o=126


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

wow, so much fail


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

e-monk said:


> wow, so much fail


I've fixed the links now so the photos now work.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

This thread is beyond ridiculous. Seriously it makes this place embarrassing yet nobody will close any of these dumbass threads. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## JBKB (Jan 12, 2013)

*@IRVING *

To eliminate any mind games or confusion I'll just give you my dictionary's definition of "post": *an area on a basketball court that is located just outside the free throw lane usually near the basket*


*@LOST*

A soft touch around the rim? We are talking about the same guy who shattered backboards correct?  As for determining the quality of a player, I surely do include how well a player can shoot. How can a man who played 17 seasons not perfect how to shoot a free throw, most especially considering how often the league gave him infinitely free rides to the line? Shaq was a lazy player who can only score points standing right next to the rim. Again, I only saw dunks and layups from Shaq. I must have missed his hook shot that you speak of, or perhaps it was something he did every once in awhile. Shaq sucked! The league's softened rules made his NBA life easy.


*@SIR PATCHWORK*

I understand that taking high percentage shots makes sense in the game of basketball. However, I still don't qualify it as "skill" that a +300-pound seven-footer can dunk a ball standing right next to the rim.


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

Basel said:


> Nobody was ever going to stop Shaq.


Besides Barkely, Ostertag actually shut him down one year in the playoffs and next year Shaq slapped him so that Ostertag would never dare play that kind of defense against Shaq again. Shaq's 2 biggest weapons were opponent's fear of Shaq hitting them even harder with offensive fouls and the Ref's keeping their whistle's in their pocket and imagining that the dozen's of offensive fouls that Shaq committed each game didn't happen. 
Shaq's psycological warfare against Ostertag the following season after Ostertag Shut down Shaq worked.
Shaq tried the same thing against Barkley and Barkley used a single leg takedown to slam Shaq's head against the hardwood hard and then landed 3 punches to Shaq's head. Barkley was lazier than Karl Malone and Duncan, but he was the best defender when he gave 100% on defense.
Barkley was certainly a better offensive player than Malone or Duncan, rings and defense was where Barkley was lacking.
When he was giving 100% on defense though, he could guard Olajuwon or Shaq better than 7 footers could.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> Besides Barkely, Ostertag actually shut him down one year in the playoffs and next year Shaq slapped him so that Ostertag would never dare play that kind of defense against Shaq again. Shaq's 2 biggest weapons were opponent's fear of Shaq hitting them even harder with offensive fouls and the Ref's keeping their whistle's in their pocket and imagining that the dozen's of offensive fouls that Shaq committed each game didn't happen.
> Shaq's psycological warfare against Ostertag the following season after Ostertag Shut down Shaq worked.
> Shaq tried the same thing against Barkley and Barkley used a single leg takedown to slam Shaq's head against the hardwood hard and then landed 3 punches to Shaq's head. Barkley was lazier than Karl Malone and Duncan, but he was the best defender when he gave 100% on defense.
> Barkley was certainly a better offensive player than Malone or Duncan, rings and defense was where Barkley was lacking.
> When he was giving 100% on defense though, he could guard Olajuwon or Shaq better than 7 footers could.


Charles Barkley was a better offensive player than Karl Malone and Duncan...Knick was right this is retarded.



JBKB said:


> *@IRVING *
> 
> To eliminate any mind games or confusion I'll just give you my dictionary's definition of "post": *an area on a basketball court that is located just outside the free throw lane usually near the basket*


Now give me the definition of a post shot.

As for the rest of the post I'll let the respective members respond to that idiotic shit you typed.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> I've fixed the links now so the photos now work.


The photos aren't the fail he's referring to...


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

not even close


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

You know he's good because his highlight reel features the same plays over and over again and multiple free throws:






Anyway, the Hawks did take Jorge Gonzalez with the 54th pick of the 1988 draft... he was too stiff and fragile to play in the NBA. 

Time to euthanize this thread?


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

man...why did you have to go and dig up that this stiff was actually drafted and never played a minute in the nba..that really hurts the op's cause here


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Skills are overrated when you can put the ball in the hoop often at a high percentage anyways.
> 
> It's like the slower runner telling the faster runner that his form is all wrong when he has never beat him in a race or been able to match his run times. It's like, what's the point of the sport again?


Kind of like the supposed purists who will tell you all about "the lost art of the midrange jump shot". It's a "lost art" because it's the most inefficient shot in the game, not because today's players can't make it. To be a scorer in today's game you need to be able to get to the rim, hit the 3 or both.


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

roux2dope said:


> man...why did you have to go and dig up that this stiff was actually drafted and never played a minute in the nba..that really hurts the op's cause here


And he was only 22 as well. Certainly qualifies as an old man.


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

Dornado said:


> You know he's good because his highlight reel features the same plays over and over again and multiple free throws:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I have already said, he was too old(22 is 44 in giant years) muscular and injured at that point. He weighed 433 lbs during pre draft measurements and was measured at 7'6". http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...HEpWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LeoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6571,290366 The Guiness Book measured him at 7'7 1/4" after a good night sleep. People like him, Yao Ming or Ralph Sampson should start playing in the NBA at age 16 or 17 because they age 3 times faster and become injury prone 3 times faster than smaller guys. BTW, there isn't too much video of Young Wilt either. That doesn't prove anything.It also wasn't his highlight reel, only highlights from one game. BTW his freethrow shooting at 7'7 1/4" and 400 lbs was better than a man a foot shorter and half his weight.


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

What is he in dog years?


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Probably been mentioned already, but weirdest highlight music ever.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

JBKB said:


> *@LOST*
> 
> A soft touch around the rim? We are talking about the same guy who shattered backboards correct?  As for determining the quality of a player, I surely do include how well a player can shoot. How can a man who played 17 seasons not perfect how to shoot a free throw, most especially considering how often the league gave him infinitely free rides to the line? Shaq was a lazy player who can only score points standing right next to the rim. Again, I only saw dunks and layups from Shaq. I must have missed his hook shot that you speak of, or perhaps it was something he did every once in awhile. Shaq sucked! The league's softened rules made his NBA life easy.


You're an idiot. You clearly never actually watched Shaq play. The league gave Shaq free rides to the line? Are you serious?

You are en epic troll. And I refuse to believe somebody can believe all this stupid shit you spew.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> As I have already said, he was too old*(22 is 44 in giant years)* muscular and injured at that point. He weighed 433 lbs during pre draft measurements and was measured at 7'6". http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...HEpWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LeoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6571,290366 The Guiness Book measured him at 7'7 1/4" after a good night sleep. People like him, Yao Ming or Ralph Sampson should start playing in the NBA at age 16 or 17 because they age 3 times faster and become injury prone 3 times faster than smaller guys. BTW, there isn't too much video of Young Wilt either. That doesn't prove anything.It also wasn't his highlight reel, only highlights from one game. BTW his freethrow shooting at 7'7 1/4" and 400 lbs was better than a man a foot shorter and half his weight.


Okay, this stupidity needs to stop right now. First off, 22 years old isn't too old for any athlete. That's retarded. 

Second, did you just say that Yao Ming should have started in the NBA at age 16? Really? A guy who is younger and isn't as strong and would get pushed around a lot more by a lot stronger people? Your logic makes no sense. 

Third, even with the injury, considering how much you're praising the hell out of him, a guy like that should have been a pretty big deal at the time. But guess what? He wasn't. He was playing against horrible competition in spite of his weight and size, his stats weren't that impressive. And teams in the NBA weren't impressed with him at all. How do I know this? Because he wasn't picked up until the third round of the draft that year. That shit doesn't even exist anymore. Shaq was a first overall selection mind you. So was Yao Ming. You can't just have size and weight to be successful in the NBA.

You can make all the excuses you want, but the fact is the guy barely even making it into the NBA pretty much shows you that his skills clearly aren't that suburb. Claiming he would shut down Shaq is ridiculous, and your theory as to why Shaq was so good is retarded.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Big Poppa Pump probably thinks Giant Gonzalez's wrestling attire is his actual physique.

I'm loving how him and JBKB are in here in an all-out brawl over the BBF Moron Championship (with Irving trying his hardest to get into the title picture).


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

:rules: If people can't express their thoughts on how ridiculous they think an argument or post is without resorting to insulting other posters I'm going to start dishing out infractions.


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## Drizzy (Mar 23, 2012)

Prince said:


> What is he in dog years?


:laugh:


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Dornado said:


> :rules: If people can't express their thoughts on how ridiculous they think an argument or post is without resorting to insulting other posters I'm going to start dishing out infractions.


Big Poppa Pump and JBKB,

I disagree vehemently with your assertion that Giant Gonzalez could guard Shaquille O'Neal. I find your arguments and posts in general to be nonsensical, deficient and silly.

Best regards,

CDM


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

You do realize that the reason Shaq couldn't shoot is because he shattered his hand at a young age. His wrist was unable to function correctly to put together a decent jump shot or free throw.


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

This guy at 16 would not be pushed around by any NBA player. He had more than size and brute force, he had great shooting and passing skills. Even after blowing out his knee and being too muscular at 433 lbs and he was still drafted. Before his knee injury and when he was a swelt 385 lbs at age 16, he could shut down Shaq easily. Injuries change giants, look at Sabonis and Ralph Sampson.
Giants need to be drafted in their teens because career ending injuries are going to happen in the early to mid 20s.
Ralph Sampson wasted all those years in college for nothing.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The question I get out of this thread is why don't midgets live to be 180 years old? I mean a Giant year is half a human year, so that makes a human year half of a midget year doesn't it?


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Big Poppa Pump probably thinks Giant Gonzalez's wrestling attire is his actual physique.
> 
> I'm loving how him and JBKB are in here in an all-out brawl over the BBF Moron Championship *(with Irving trying his hardest to get into the title picture).*


Wow, what exactly did I do to deserve that again?


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Big Poppa Pump probably thinks Giant Gonzalez's wrestling attire is his actual physique.
> 
> I'm loving how him and JBKB are in here in an all-out brawl over the BBF Moron Championship (with Irving trying his hardest to get into the title picture).


He has a better Physique than Shaq. Shaq looked like a TWIG next to Hulk Hogan, but Jorge Makes Hogan look like the twig.
He's 7'7 1/4" 475lbs in this photo, but he was only 400lbs in the basketball video.
This comparison with Hogan as the measuring stick also shows how badly Jorge would dwarf little Shaq.
Here's Hulk Hogan and Shaq
http://s2.beta.photobucket.com/user/Sal29/media/HoganShaq-1.jpg.html?sort=2&o=110

Here's Hulk Hogan and Jorge Gonzalez.
This comparison shows you how badly Jorge would Dwarf Shaq in bulk, height, and strength.
http://s2.beta.photobucket.com/user/Sal29/media/HulkHoganJorgeGonzalez.jpg.html?sort=2&o=126]


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## The Big Dipper (Oct 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> He has a better Physique than Shaq. Shaq looked like a TWIG next to Hulk Hogan, but Jorge Makes Hogan look like the twig.
> He's 7'7 1/4" 475lbs in this photo, but he was only 400lbs in the basketball video.
> This comparison with Hogan as the measuring stick also shows how badly Jorge would dwarf little Shaq.
> Here's Hulk Hogan and Shaq
> ...


Hey man I have no doubt that this guy was taller and heavier than Shaq, and he does show good skill, however what happened to him why didn't he play in the NBA?

I mean I will admit that if you are 7 feet or over you have to be pretty ****ing bad at basketball to not make it in the NBA. 

Edit: Knee injury and physical demands on his giant frame stopped him.


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## jaw2929 (Dec 11, 2011)

I ****ing hate Shaq, always have & always will. But there's no way I'm dumb enough to discredit him for his ability and his accomplishments.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> He has a better Physique than Shaq. Shaq looked like a TWIG next to Hulk Hogan, but Jorge Makes Hogan look like the twig.
> He's 7'7 1/4" 475lbs in this photo, but he was only 400lbs in the basketball video.
> This comparison with Hogan as the measuring stick also shows how badly Jorge would dwarf little Shaq.
> Here's Hulk Hogan and Shaq
> ...


Dude, you can bring up how big Jorge was compared to others all you want, you're going to need to do a lot more than that to convince me that he could have shut down someone like Shaq.


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

XxIrvingxX said:


> Dude, you can bring up how big Jorge was compared to others all you want, you're going to need to do a lot more than that to convince me that he could have shut down someone like Shaq.


Shaq was so one dimensional that anyone bigger and stronger and taller would virtually Shut him down. The only problem was that there was nobody who was bigger and stronger in the nba. Now somebody with the skills of Olajuwon or Mchale would easily score on Jorge.
Did you even see the David Robinson and Mutombo videos I posted? Shaq just used offensive fouls to create space and get easy dunks. An offensive foul against Jorge would be like an offensive foul against an 8 foot concrete wall. I also don't think you understand how much of a super wide body Jorge was. He could play zone defence all by himself. Shaq would be forced totake shots from.outside the paint and shoot less than 25% against Jorge.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

so much continuing fail


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> Shaq was so one dimensional that anyone bigger and stronger and taller would virtually Shut him down.


This alone says it all. You've clearly never watched Shaq play before. If you did you wouldn't be making idiotic statements like this. His size and strength and height was a huge asset for him but it wasn't the only reason as to why he was so good. People here have already pointed out why he was so good, I'm not going to go through the trouble of repeating their statements. Instead I strongly recommend you watch some actual videos of Shaq, and learn what a offensive foul is, and learn a thing or two about the game of basketball. You clearly have no understanding of it if you think someone can be great in the NBA with just size, strength and height.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

he should watch the robinson video he himself posted, only he should learn the rules of the game before doing that since he clrearly doesnt understand them


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

e-monk said:


> he should watch the robinson video he himself posted, only he should learn the rules of the game before doing that since he clrearly doesnt understand them


Robinson beat Shaq to the spot and establishes and defensive position and Shaq was too slow to go by him so Shaq lowers his shoulder and uses it as a battering ram to hit Robinson and send him reeling backwards and off balance.
This allows Shaq to get an easy dunk because Robinson couldn't jump properly because of his backwards momentum.
That's a CLEAR OFFENSIVE FOUL by Shaq as Rick Adleman used to always say.
Shaq's 2 signature moves against good defenders are actually offensive fouls. Using Shoulder as a Battering Ram, and ELBOW to the defender's face.


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## The Big Dipper (Oct 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> Robinson beat Shaq to the spot and establishes and defensive position and Shaq was too slow to go by him so Shaq lowers his shoulder and uses it as a battering ram to hit Robinson and send him reeling backwards and off balance.
> This allows Shaq to get an easy dunk because Robinson couldn't jump properly because of his backwards momentum.
> That's a CLEAR OFFENSIVE FOUL by Shaq as Rick Adleman used to always say.
> Shaq's 2 signature moves against good defenders are actually offensive fouls. Using Shoulder as a Battering Ram, and ELBOW to the defender's face.


I don't think you are a troll I totally get where you are coming from, however the same reason you think Jorge would have dominated is why Shaq dominated.

It is not a negative on Shaq that he was stronger and taller then everyone else. He had the body as well as speed and post moves. I mean when you see Shaq spin on a guy like David Robinson or Dikembe it is athleticism. His strength and post moves are why he is considered top 5 center all time.

I mean you wouldn't knock Allen Iverson because he was quicker would you? So why knock Shaq because he was stronger? But yes Shaq did have a cheap elbow to the face move he liked to pull. 

A player does not get into the NBA because he can shoot well, he needs athleticism and to be a great player you need both. The fact that Shaq at 300+ and 7'1"-7'2" could back down, spin, outrebound, and outscore other players and the fact he did it for 19 seasons (at least 13-14 of those being very effective) goes to show you can't just be tall and heavy you need skills and athleticism which Jorge did show he had for that game but his knees weren't in it to even do a season where as shaq did 19x that.

With that said, if Jorge could have stayed healthy and learned from a good coach in the NBA I see no reason why he couldn't hold his own against Shaq I mean Shaq couldn't back him down as easy but is Jorge coordinated enough to handle a black tornado spin from Shaq? Can he at the same time as trying to defend Shaq and score against him still dominate the boards and be a defensive force at the rim? Could he do it 82 times a season plus playoffs for almost 2 decades? That is where it is hard to be so assertive that Jorge would crush one of the most dominating NBA players of all time.


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

The Big Dipper said:


> I don't think you are a troll I totally get where you are coming from, however the same reason you think Jorge would have dominated is why Shaq dominated.
> 
> It is not a negative on Shaq that he was stronger and taller then everyone else. He had the body as well as speed and post moves. I mean when you see Shaq spin on a guy like David Robinson or Dikembe it is athleticism. His strength and post moves are why he is considered top 5 center all time.
> 
> ...



Shaq was a good athlete and agile for HIS SIZE, but he was still a lot slower than prime Olajuwon or Robinson.
This is why he had only had a few choices, take the outside shot, be patient and back them down and be fast enough not to get the 3 second violation, or just GET AWAY WITH OFFENSIVE FOULS. Shaq mostly took the easy with with the help of the REFS.
Now Jorge would give Shaq plenty of room to be able to get all the midrange and outside shots he wanted, but Shaq would get ZERO DUNKS, ZERO LAYUPS, and ZERO AND ONES. If you take those away, Shaq would be a FAR FAR less effective offensive player. After one flagrant foul by the 400+ lbs Mountain of a Man, Shaq would never even dare come in the paint again.
In essense, he would give Shaq a taste of his own medicine. Vince Carter tried to dunk on Shaq once, and instead of trying to block the dunk, Shaq hit with him with a VERY DANGEROUS flagrant 2 could that could have potentially caused a career ending type of injury on Vince Carter. Vince Carter NEVER EVER tried to dunk on Shaq again for the rest of his career after that.
I'm not saying that Jorge would ever be a great NBA player, even before the knee injury. He would have been better than Muresan, but worse than Old Sabonis. What I am saying is that he was simply the perfect specimen for guarding Shaq.
He would most likely been fouled out in a 1.5-2 quarters against Shaq. He would be virtually useless against most teams and be a benchwarmer, but be very usable as a specialist/enforcer. His greatest strength would be the fact that his fouls would have enough force that Shaq would never get and and one. It was laughable to see people like Charles Jones, Chirs Webber, Mark Bryant, Malik Rose, etc trying to foul Shaq and Shaq always getting and an one. This would never happen with a guy who outweighed Shaq by 100lbs.
He would never have been a great NBA player under NBA rules UNLESS the refs allowed him to get away with countless offensive fouls the way Shaq got away with them.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> Robinson beat Shaq to the spot and establishes and defensive position and Shaq was too slow to go by him so Shaq lowers his shoulder and uses it as a battering ram to hit Robinson and send him reeling backwards and off balance.
> This allows Shaq to get an easy dunk because Robinson couldn't jump properly because of his backwards momentum.
> That's a CLEAR OFFENSIVE FOUL by Shaq as Rick Adleman used to always say.
> Shaq's 2 signature moves against good defenders are actually offensive fouls. Using Shoulder as a Battering Ram, and ELBOW to the defender's face.


Shaq did not hit Robinson. I don't know what video you were watching, but in the one I saw, Robinson's face wasn't hit. Shaq clearly misses Robinson's face, either that or he must have a neck made of stone because his face didn't jerk to the side at all. I shouldn't need to point that out to you though, it's as clear as freakin day.

And even if Shaq did hit Robinson, it's not an offensive foul because 

1. It wasn't intentional. 
2. Shaq was attempting to create space in the post up position, and the only team he can commit an offensive foul is if he literally pushed the guy away with his arm and scored. Shaq doesn't do that. He simply spins around, and at times, people end up getting elbowed. This is very common in a post up move. To say that's an offensive foul is just stupid. It's like saying that a player who dunks the ball and accidentally kicks someone on the way up should be called for the offensive foul.

Again, learn the rules of the game. You clearly don't know a thing at all about basketball. And I'm still convinced you haven't watched a single full game that Shaq played in.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> Robinson beat Shaq to the spot and establishes and defensive position and Shaq was too slow to go by him so Shaq lowers his shoulder and uses it as a battering ram to hit Robinson and send him reeling backwards and off balance.
> This allows Shaq to get an easy dunk because Robinson couldn't jump properly because of his backwards momentum.
> That's a CLEAR OFFENSIVE FOUL by Shaq as Rick Adleman used to always say.
> Shaq's 2 signature moves against good defenders are actually offensive fouls. Using Shoulder as a Battering Ram, and ELBOW to the defender's face.


first please understand that Im not engaging with you - let's get that out of the way

If I were what I'd advise is that you watch that footage again and again and repeat to yourself, 'footwork, footwork, footwork' 

because he does in fact establish position in the post with his back to the player, he then steps strong to the baseline, Robinson then moves to stop him (so what is his clear defensive position?)

from there shaq spins away (and watch closely, there is contact from the pivot but guess what?! Robinson could have been called for a foul! but really its wholly within the limits of the rules - you are I assume familiar with those - no I dont assume that at all, just kidding) towards the middle at which point Robinson is wholly out of position and Shaq dunks on him

Im sorry that a certain amount of contact is allowed and you dont realize it, I'm sorry that you didnt really look at what you were posting and Im sorry that you have posted a great example in your own misguided complaint of exactly why youre wrong

but there it is, you are wrong

(oops I guess I engaged with you, arent you lucky to have the opportunity to learn some damn thing?)


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

e-monk said:


> first please understand that Im not engaging with you - let's get that out of the way
> 
> If I were what I'd advise is that you watch that footage again and again and repeat to yourself, 'footwork, footwork, footwork'
> 
> ...


Was there contact? I don't see any, although it isn't a very good angle. Shaq's right arm does bump into Robinson but this is after Robinson is in the process of backing away already.


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

XxIrvingxX said:


> Was there contact? I don't see any, although it isn't a very good angle. Shaq's right arm does bump into Robinson but this is after Robinson is in the process of backing away already.


WHAT contact, you can't be serious. It's just too bad that the slow motion replay didn't show the whole play.
Every action has an opposite in equal reaction. When you watch the slow motion replay, what event is causing David Robinson to fall backwards so hard that he would fall on his back if he didn't try hard to regain balance?
Shaq uses his left shoulder and or elbow to ram Robinson which is what cause him to bounce backwards and lose his balance.

David Robinson had a clear defensive position in this screen cap. He has a wide stance and Shaq is about to hit him with his left elbow and shoulder. Shaq uses the spin move to disguise his offensive foul.
http://s17.postimage.org/vse8spkin/Screen_Shot_2013_03_03_at_8_28_21_PM.png
This is EXACTLY what Shaq did, and it's only the camera angle that prevents you from seeing it in the Robinson video.
I'm amazed that so many of you are willing to give a KNOWN elbower/shoulder rammer like Shaq the benefit of the doubt not the CLEAR offensive foul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOOVLTCtII

Some of you guys honestly sound like you were refs in the 2002 WCF.
I suppose this isn't an offensive foul to you guys either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqqWBu7NjAs


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

dont blame us guy - you're the one who posted the video of Shaq's excellent footwork 

class dismissed


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> WHAT contact, you can't be serious. It's just too bad that the slow motion replay didn't show the whole play.


From the angle I saw, no contact was made. Robinson stepped backwards pretending to be off balance from a hit, while his head didn't snap to the side at all in anyway. No one does that after getting elbowed in the face. Your face at least moves. If you're trying to argue against that then I have no reason to take you seriously.




Big Poppa Pump said:


> Every action has an opposite in equal reaction. When you watch the slow motion replay, what event is causing David Robinson to fall backwards so hard that he would fall on his back if he didn't try hard to regain balance?


Ever heard of a term called flopping?



Big Poppa Pump said:


> Shaq uses his left shoulder and or elbow to ram Robinson which is what cause him to bounce backwards and lose his balance.


The only possible way Robinson could have fell backwards like that in that situation was if Shaq literally drove his elbow straight into Robinson's face. He clearly didn't do that. 



Big Poppa Pump said:


> David Robinson had a clear defensive position in this screen cap. He has a wide stance and Shaq is about to hit him with his left elbow and shoulder. Shaq uses the spin move to disguise his offensive foul.
> http://s17.postimage.org/vse8spkin/Screen_Shot_2013_03_03_at_8_28_21_PM.png
> This is EXACTLY what Shaq did, and it's only the camera angle that prevents you from seeing it in the Robinson video.


I'm aware of what Shaq did, but I still didn't see him hit Robinson in the face. He most certainly didn't hit him in the chest unless he has ungodly long arms. 

And again, there's no offensive foul that's being disguised here. Learn the rules of the game. It's like talking to a brick wall. 



Big Poppa Pump said:


> I'm amazed that so many of you are willing to give a KNOWN elbower/shoulder rammer like Shaq the benefit of the doubt not the CLEAR offensive foul.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOOVLTCtII


Again, ramming your elbow into someone during a post move isn't a foul. This is a very common occurrence during a post move when someone is attempting to do a turn on you and score. People got elbowed in the face all the time. That doesn't make it a foul. The offensive player has his arms up to avoid having the ball knocked out of his hands as he brings it up. If you did the spin, then brought your arms up afterwords to try to shoot it, the defender can very easily swipe it away from you. Shaq did what you were supposed to do. But he was a strong and heavy guy, so people got caught off balance by what he did at times because it was easy to be staggered by him. But now we're supposed to think he's fouling people for it? No, that's not how it works. 

You're limited knowledge of the game is so obvious that I'm surprised you even know what a foul is. In fact, DO you even know what a foul is?



Big Poppa Pump said:


> Some of you guys honestly sound like you were refs in the 2002 WCF.
> I suppose this isn't an offensive foul to you guys either.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqqWBu7NjAs


Dude, are you kidding me right now? That was a clear and obvious flop by the defender. Shaq literally turned AWAY from him, and he flung himself backwards as if he got hit by Shaq. Did you even bother to watch the video? Or did you just see the title of the video and say to yourself "yep, that will work. Yeah I'll show them!" Seriously that was as obvious a flop as you could possibly get.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Vlade invented that shit


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

e-monk said:


> Vlade invented that shit


What Shaq did were CLEAR offensive fouls. The proof was that those moves were called offensive fouls later in his career, and were ALWAYS called offensive fouls when bench warming big men used those moves to create space. I remember one game when Anthony Mason got called for an offensive foul against a smaller player, and then Shaq got and and an one on the exact same kind of post move against a smaller player. The comentators called out the refs for that one. Anthony Mason and Tractor Traylor would have had several 30 ppg and 60% fg years if refs favored them the way they did with Shaq.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

bwah bwah bwah bwah bwah - you're wrong, sorry


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> What Shaq did were CLEAR offensive fouls. The proof was that those moves were called offensive fouls later in his career


Yea, nice try there but no they weren't. When Shaq was playing for Cleveland he rarely got called for those, trust me, I would know, I watched every single freaking game that he was in. And regardless, THEY AREN'T OFFENSIVE FOULS. What part of this are you not understanding? He wasn't intentionally elbowing people. There for it can't be an offensive foul. 



Big Poppa Pump said:


> and were ALWAYS called offensive fouls when bench warming big men used those moves to create space.


I strongly recommend you get some actual proof on that before making straight up false statements like this.



Big Poppa Pump said:


> I remember one game when Anthony Mason got called for an offensive foul against a smaller player, and then Shaq got and and an one on the exact same kind of post move against a smaller player. The comentators called out the refs for that one. Anthony Mason and Tractor Traylor would have had several 30 ppg and 60% fg years if refs favored them the way they did with Shaq.


Okay now your bias is showing clear as day. Anthony Mason would have had 30 ppg years off of 60% shooting if refs favored him? No. Just no. The refs didn't favor shaq, they just know the rules of the game, something you clearly don't know, and have demonstrated again and again that you no absolutely nothing at all about basketball. Go learn the freaking rules and stop making yourself look like an idiot, because right now that's the only thing you're succeeding in doing.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Agendas are obnoxious. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

You don't understand the rules.
This is a direct quote from one of the greatest minds in basketball.
He knows a lot more than you or anyone on this forum about the rules.

"Low-post defenders are entitled to the space they occupy, even if they lack the power to resist a 370-pound giant hellbent on seizing it. More importantly, defenders are entitled to that space while poised in a*"springy, athletic stance."
Defenders should not be required to distort their body position and sacrifice balance in a vain attempt to avoid dislodging. A league that appreciates its athletes should want them in a springy, athletic stance rather than in goal-line-stand mode -- or worse, flat-footed with both arms straight up in the air. The “statue pose” is fine for saluting the sun at Monday morning yoga, but it’s no stance for an athlete who needs to make a play.
During the 2001 Finals against**Philly
*, Shaq asserted his low-post rights. “I’m allowed to pivot,” he said. “I’m allowed to play strong. I’m allowed to be powerful.” But in the process of exercising his own rights, Shaq cannot trample on the rights of others. So let’s clarify exactly what Shaq can and cannot do.
- Yes, you are “allowed to pivot.” But if the defender is overplaying you on your left side, as is often the case, you cannot pivot or plow to your left into the space he legally occupies, supplanting his body with yours. You may pivot to your right, into wide-open space, or you can step back and face the basket, thereby creating room for all manner of moves.
- When you request a second entry pass, if the defender is right behind you, the only way you are allowed to catch the ball closer to the basket than your present location is by peeling off the defender or wheeling around him. You cannot leap backward directly into space he presently occupies or take a series of backward mini-steps, using your bulk to “walk him” under the basket.
- You are entitled to move*"to"*the defender’s chest, but not*"through"*it. (Ref**Danny Crawford**got the call and explanation exactly right in one Game 7 play, much to Divac’s disgust.)
- You get the benefit of any doubt on contact where the defender is sliding up as you are backing down. If you begin a move with your left shoulder two feet from the defender’s chest, and you move a foot toward the basket while the defender simultaneously moves a foot closer to create contact, that is a defensive foul, even if the defender is knocked on his butt."


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

wow - did you even read most of what you posted?


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

:favre:


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

You do realize that Shaq wasn't just "quick for his size" right? He was downright quick. Young Shaquille O'Neal was possibly the most athletic 7'+ athlete of all time. Anecdotally: Wilt rivaled him, but unfortunately we just don't have the ability to really put them side by side. Wilt is the only man in history that could have rivaled him for sheer combination of size and speed. The Shaq you're obsessing over and hating is old Shaq. The Shaq that had been in the league for 8+ years. Once Shaq won his first title with the Lakers he realized that he didn't NEED to be in prime condition every year, and he backed off of his conditioning, he started lowering that shoulder.

But young Shaq? There were times when, yes, he got outplayed by physically inferior guys - because he was ****ing young. You don't see young big men dominate the league because the league takes time to acclimate to. The rules, the tricks of the trade, the little things that veteran players can do to get into the young guys' heads... it happens. But in his prime nobody was as athletic as Shaquille O'Neal. NOBODY. He was stronger than any other big man, and he was quicker than any other big man. He was a fantastic defensive presence, he had great hands, he could pass the ball, he had great timing going up to block shots, he could rebound the ball with a (surprisingly) underrated amount of skill. 

The fact that you're fixating constantly on the fact that he could lower that shoulder and power for points shows you must know you have no real argument when you look at his entire game. Shaq played D. Shaq rebounded. Shaq passed. But you keep bringing it back to the fact that he could drop a shoulder into someone because if we dare take the argument outside of his offensive post game, you've got absolutely NO chance of winning this debate.

As for him "refusing" to learn to shoot - see the post I made a few days ago. He broke his hand at a young age. He often lamented that that permanently damaged hand was God's way of keeping him from being the perfect basketball player. You try shooting a basketball without being capable of snapping your wrist at all. You can't do it, at least not from very far out of the restricted area. That's why he was considered such a prime candidate to shoot free throws like Rick Barry - because it was the only way he could have possibly succeeded with ANY amount of practice. He tried to become a good free throw shooter, and unfortunately had too much stubborn pride to try the Rick Barry method.

Shaq was a hell of a player, a hell of an athlete, and clearly one of the most dominant of all time.



Oh, and to everyone that keeps using the word "most dominate" instead of "most dominant" - I ****ing hate you all. Every time I see that misuse I cringe. I usually am good at letting little mistakes in grammar slide, but for some reason I am ****ing sick of the fact that people constantly make that mistake.


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

Shaq actually started using the illegal offwnsive fouls after he lost the 1995 Finals. He realized that he couldn't be the best bigman by playing by the rules. He perfected the offensive fouls with the Lakers. He was routinely schooled by Olajuwon an Robinson till then. Robinson's back injury also helped slow down Robinson. 

Shaq was also nowhere near as athletic as Olajuwon, Robinson or Wilt. Shaq played with prime Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash, and Lebron. Olajuwon would have won 10 championships with that kind of supporting cast. 
Olajuwon had more steals, blocks, rebounds, and much better freethrow shooting than Shaq. Olajuwon was also a much better scorer than Shaq in the playoffs while Shaq's numbers went down in the playoffs.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

dude go back and read your post - the unnamed/unsourced authority whose words you yourself posted disagrees with you repeatedly (cf 'Danny Crawford got the call right... much to Vlade's disgust') - you're arguing with yourself now essentially - that's how wrong you are


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> Shaq actually started using the illegal offwnsive fouls after he lost the 1995 Finals. He realized that he couldn't be the best bigman by playing by the rules. He perfected the offensive fouls with the Lakers. He was routinely schooled by Olajuwon an Robinson till then. Robinson's back injury also helped slow down Robinson.
> 
> Shaq was also nowhere near as athletic as Olajuwon, Robinson or Wilt. Shaq played with prime Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash, and Lebron. Olajuwon would have won 10 championships with that kind of supporting cast.
> Olajuwon had more steals, blocks, rebounds, and much better freethrow shooting than Shaq. Olajuwon was also a much better scorer than Shaq in the playoffs while Shaq's numbers went down in the playoffs.


Calling David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon more athletic than Shaquille O'Neal when he came into the league is just... NO. Neither of those guys was as quick as Shaq, and your saying so is so completely absurd that I just laughed. Shaq coming into the league was as elite an athlete as anybody had ever seen at over 7', and every scouting report on him when he was drafted agrees with me and disagrees with you. People that were actually at his LSU games, that actually saw him when he was young all disagree with you.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Shaq dropped 23/14 with 3.5 blocks per game in his rookie year, in a league full of good centers. That's better than any season Dwight Howard has ever had. He then stayed at that level or better for over 10 years.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Nimreitz said:


> Shaq dropped 23/14 with 3.5 blocks per game in his rookie year, in a league full of good centers. That's better than any season Dwight Howard has ever had. He then stayed at that level or better for over 10 years.


He only got those blocks and rebounds because he lowered his shoulder on offense!


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

It's so laughable that you think Shaq was a better athlete than Hakeem and Robinson that it doesn't really even dignify a response.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Shaquille was an incredible athlete. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> It's so laughable that you think Shaq was a better athlete than Hakeem and Robinson that it doesn't really even dignify a response.


Oh my ****ing god. This is just stupid. The part about Shaq always getting away with offensive fouls was straight up stupid in of itself, but now you're going to try to honestly say that Shaq wasn't a better athlete than Hakeem or Robinson?

Just wow. There is clearly a biased agenda against Shaq here. You know everything you're currently saying is wrong, but you just want to do everything you possibly can to discredit him, even when you being wrong couldn't be more freakin obvious.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

You guys should all be embarrassed at being trolled this easily.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

XxIrvingxX said:


> Oh my ****ing god. This is just stupid. The part about Shaq always getting away with offensive fouls was straight up stupid in of itself, but now you're going to try to honestly say that Shaq wasn't a better athlete than Hakeem or Robinson?
> 
> Just wow. There is clearly a biased agenda against Shaq here. You know everything you're currently saying is wrong, but you just want to do everything you possibly can to discredit him, even when you being wrong couldn't be more freakin obvious.


This is why I put you in the Idiot Triple-Threat Match.

It's like you just took a college debate course and now want to write novels about Wilt Chamberlain and go paragraph-for-paragraph with some troll about how Shaq was a better player than freaking El Gigante, an eight-foot wrestler who walked like he had a flagpole shoved up his butt and would have been jealous of Pavel Podkolzin's NBA career.

I can only imagine the posts I would have gotten out of you if you were around when I started that Dahntay Jones-is-better-than-Kobe thread.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> It's so laughable that you think Shaq was a better athlete than Hakeem and Robinson that it doesn't really even dignify a response.


Jumped higher. Ran faster. Was stronger. Was bigger. In terms of everything measurable Shaq was a better athlete. In terms of technical ability? Hakeem Olajuwon was the greatest center of all time in my eyes. I'm totally on the Hakeem bandwagon here - I think he was the most skilled center in NBA history. He played the post like a chess player. But I'm not delusional enough to think he was a better ATHLETE than Shaq.

There is quite literally no material anywhere, no evidence at all, to back up any claim you make that Robinson and Olajuwon were better athletes than Shaq before he gave up on conditioning. It just doesn't exist. You didn't respond because, simply put: you don't have an argument.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

Has anyone checked this guys IP? Is he a certain trolls alternate personality?


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

This was NOT young Shaq






This really wasn't young Shaq






But this was


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Cinco de Mayo said:


> This is why I put you in the Idiot Triple-Threat Match.
> 
> It's like you just took a college debate course and now want to write novels about Wilt Chamberlain and go paragraph-for-paragraph with some troll about how Shaq was a better player than freaking El Gigante, an eight-foot wrestler who walked like he had a flagpole shoved up his butt and would have been jealous of Pavel Podkolzin's NBA career.
> 
> I can only imagine the posts I would have gotten out of you if you were around when I started that Dahntay Jones-is-better-than-Kobe thread.


I would know that you were trolling. This isn't a well known poster this is a new guy who's very first post was this thread. There for I can't tell if he's being serious or not. Until I know for sure, I will assume he's being serious for the time being. If you don't like that, then close the thread, otherwise don't make insults about me for doing it and make me have to waste my time explaining myself.

And I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but I'm not the only person responding to this guys posts. I just simply have time to make statements about them because I simply feel like it. If that makes me an idiot, let alone anything like the other two people you compared me to, then I guess we can start calling Barack Obama a republican because now is the time when we stop making sense.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Man that is great. The way he could just EXPLODE off of two feet from a total standstill was incredible.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Shaq was a great athlete, but he was NOT quicker than Hakeem Olajuwon... Hakeem was like a cat out there... no need to overstate the case like that.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I was hoping for the vintage shaq behind the back dribble leading the break footage - but that was still good stuff


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

Nimreitz said:


> This was NOT young Shaq
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're absolutely out of your mind. It's clear you've never seen young Olajuwon or Robinson play.
Even middle aged Olajuwon was a FAR FAR FAR better athlete than rookie Shaq.
Shaq would NEVER in a million years would be able to chase down Rod Strickland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GCyU0sKxqI
Middle aged Olajuwon had no problem. Look at how fact Strickland was running, and Olajuwon still caught him.
Also, combine measurements prove you wrong, Shaq's highest touch was 12'5" even though he had a 9'8" standing reach.
Olajuwon had a 12"6" highest touch even though he's almost 4" shorter than Shaq and has shorter arms.
Olajuwon was only 1" below Shawn Kemp's 12'7" highest touch and 5" below Ralph Sampsons 12'11" highest touch.
Even middle aged Olajuwon jumped higher than Shaq EVER DID.

image hosting sites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GCyU0sKxqI
The BETTER LEAPING ABILITY was why Robinson and Olajuwon were MUCH better shot blockers than Shaq ever was. 
Rookie Shaq was not any better an athlete than McGee or Ibaka, and in fact I'd say there' better athletes than rookie Shaq, just not as strong or heavy. Young Dwight Howard was certainly a better athlete than Shaq as well.
Wilt Chamberlain, Olajuwon, and David Robinson are probably the 3 best athletes of all time among center so it's laughable to even compare Shaq to them. 
There's no was Shaq could jump as high as Robinson either.
http://postimage.org/image/kht80fiwh/
Robinson also had much better upper body strength than Shaq, and he would tear Shaq's arm off in an arm wrestling contest, do 50 times as many pull-ups as Shaq, etc. Shaq just had tons of extra fat weight and more lower body strength.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkTMOwJsto

Sabonis, could jump higher than Shaq as well, but obviously the average idiot USA and current and recent history basketball fan would never know that.
[url]http://s14.postimage.org/ie0fm760x/Screen_Shot_2013_03_05_at_11_38_38_PM.png[/url]
photo sharing sites

Ralph Sampson could jump MUCH higher than Shaq as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YUN4DBIgo


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

'Robinson had much better upper body strength than Shaq....' oh deary me - thanks for that one youre loads of fun


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

e-monk said:


> 'Robinson had much better upper body strength than Shaq....' oh deary me - thanks for that one youre loads of fun


You've obviously never seen a Lakers vs Spurs game in an arena. Robinson has much thicker shredded arms that get much much bigger when he flexes, and Shaq's arms stay about the same size even when he flexes.
Shaq also has manboobs, back fat, etc. Fat can't make you stronger. MUSCLES DO!
Melt off Shaq's fat and his upper body would be smaller than Robinson's
Shaq was over17% body fat most of his career and he had didn't have biceps and triceps, he had fat ceps.
Look at this video @ 5:30 for PROOF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSDxIOpi10
Take this poster of Robinson dunking on Shaq for example
[url]http://s11.postimage.org/5ktmcgz1f/Screen_Shot_2013_03_05_at_11_47_51_PM.png[/url]
free image hosting

Here's a better look at Robinson's arms, he makes even Karl Malone's arms look weak and fat.
http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/maloneelbowsrobinson.jpg


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

Shaq used to bench well over 400 pounds in the 90s and early 2000s. The man was enormous with tremendous power.

You can't judge strength off the size of their arms anyway.

The only two players I can think of (off the top of my head) that are close to Shaq in pure strength would probably be Karl Malone and Wilt Chamberlain.


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## Big Poppa Pump (Feb 28, 2013)

CosaNostra said:


> Shaq used to bench well over 400 pounds in the 90s and early 2000s. The man was enormous with tremendous power.
> 
> You can't judge strength off the size of their arms anyway.
> 
> The only two players I can think of (off the top of my head) that are close to Shaq in pure strength would probably be Karl Malone and Wilt Chamberlain.


Shaq's NOWHERE near as strong as you think. For example. even 6'0" 192 lbs former baseball player Ron Gant was much stronger and could bench well over 430lbs. 
David Robinson could easily bench as much or more than Shaq, and he could certainly curl a lot more than Shaq.


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> Shaq's NOWHERE near as strong as you think. For example. even 6'0" 192 lbs former baseball player Ron Gant was much stronger and could bench well over 430lbs.
> David Robinson could easily bench as much or more than Shaq, and he could certainly curl a lot more than Shaq.


Ron Gant? The steroids guy? Even if we're assuming David Robinson had a comparable bench press (which I think is doubtful), we're also saying that curls equals greater upper body strength? This argument has so many holes in it that I don't know where to start. It's also irrelevant.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Close this thread


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> Shaq's NOWHERE near as strong as you think. For example. even 6'0" 192 lbs former baseball player Ron Gant was much stronger and could bench well over 430lbs.
> David Robinson could easily bench as much or more than Shaq, and he could certainly curl a lot more than Shaq.


Curls are isolation exercises. And bicep size means nothing. You obviously don't know anything about strength and conditioning. You're an amusing armchair quarterback, but you don't sound like you've ever touched a weight in your life.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Stop Shaq? He couldn't even stop The Undertaker.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Equating hypothetical bicep curl exercises to strength is beyond retarded. Anyone that's ever been involved in a serious workout regiment will tell you that. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Nimreitz said:


> Close this thread


And miss watching this guy continue to hang himself?i


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

So could Andre the Giant shut down Wilt?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

maybe but he probably couldnt shut down that goliath on the other side of Arnie


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

You mean Andre couldn't shut down himself? Huh?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I see, misread your post


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

XxIrvingxX said:


> I would know that you were trolling. This isn't a well known poster this is a new guy who's very first post was this thread. There for I can't tell if he's being serious or not. Until I know for sure, I will assume he's being serious for the time being. If you don't like that, then close the thread, otherwise don't make insults about me for doing it and make me have to waste my time explaining myself.
> 
> And I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but I'm not the only person responding to this guys posts. I just simply have time to make statements about them because I simply feel like it. If that makes me an idiot, let alone anything like the other two people you compared me to, then I guess we can start calling Barack Obama a republican because now is the time when we stop making sense.


Your time is clearly valuable. I apologize.

By all means, continue your novella in the stupidest thread of all-time.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Your time is clearly valuable. I apologize.
> 
> By all means, continue your novella in the stupidest thread of all-time.


Considering how I'm in college with 19 credit hours, yes, my time is valuable, thank you very much. When you're done with the smart ass attitude, get back to me. Until then, please stop wasting my time.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Big Poppa Pump said:


> You're absolutely out of your mind. It's clear you've never seen young Olajuwon or Robinson play.
> Even middle aged Olajuwon was a FAR FAR FAR better athlete than rookie Shaq.
> Shaq would NEVER in a million years would be able to chase down Rod Strickland.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GCyU0sKxqI
> ...


This is hilarious. If anyone closes this thread I will hunt you down personally.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

let's just establish that Javale McGee is insanely athletic, can we?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

XxIrvingxX said:


> Considering how I'm in college with 19 credit hours, yes, my time is valuable, thank you very much. When you're done with the smart ass attitude, get back to me. Until then, please stop wasting my time.


You didn't need to tell me you're in college. Writing style and tone is a dead giveaway.


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## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

JBKB said:


> When I think of great players I think of Jordan, Kobe, LBJ, Magic, Westbrook, Parker, Durant,* Blake*, Garnett, and I can go on and on with many others, but SHAQ would never be mentioned.


:stephena2:



Nimreitz said:


> Close this thread


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

23isback said:


> :stephena2:


Lol I didn't even notice Blake being on the list. Good catch.


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