# Post Your Francis Trade



## Captain Obvious

I think it's becoming clear that Francis needs to go this offseason. Here's a deal that I propose:

Orlando Trades:
Francis
Kasun

Clippers Trade:
Simmons (resigned)
Wilcox
Chalmers
Trade Exception

It's obvious why we do this. We get a backcourt that won't get killed defensively. We also save some money and get two young, exciting players. As for the Clippers, they can put Francis at the 2 next to 6'7" Livingston in a perfect set up. They give up very little considering Simmons could easily leave this offseason. Clippers end up with a very nice lineup of Livingston, Francis, Maggette, Brand, and Kaman. As for us:

PG- Nelson, Christie, Chalmers
SG- Simmons, Stevenson
SF- Hill, Turkoglu
PF- Howard, Wilcox, Garrity
C- Cato, Battie

IL: DeClercq 
Plus whoever we draft.

Thoughts?


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## Blazer Freak

Captain Obvious said:


> I think it's becoming clear that Francis needs to go this offseason. Here's a deal that I propose:
> 
> Orlando Trades:
> Francis
> Kasun
> 
> Clippers Trade:
> Simmons (resigned)
> Wilcox
> Chalmers
> Trade Exception
> 
> It's obvious why we do this. We get a backcourt that won't get killed defensively. We also save some money and get two young, exciting players. As for the Clippers, they can put Francis at the 2 next to 6'7" Livingston in a perfect set up. They give up very little considering Simmons could easily leave this offseason. Clippers end up with a very nice lineup of Livingston, Francis, Maggette, Brand, and Kaman. As for us:
> 
> PG- Nelson, Christie, Chalmers
> SG- Simmons, Stevenson
> SF- Hill, Turkoglu
> PF- Howard, Wilcox, Garrity
> C- Cato, Battie
> 
> IL: DeClercq
> Plus whoever we draft.
> 
> Thoughts?


You can get alot more for Francis then that. I guess that isn't a horrible deal if you look at it, but you can still get more.


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## Captain Obvious

Blazer Freak said:


> You can get alot more for Francis then that. I guess that isn't a horrible deal if you look at it, but you can still get more.


I know it doesn't seem like a lot but look at what other stars were traded for recently. I don't really see any team out there that would give up much more than that.


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## BEEZ

Also Wilcox is no one's backup. The moment he can get out of Clipperland is the moment he goes to a team where he will get minutes and can start. Playing behind Howard is like playing behind Brand. He doesnt want that


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## Captain Obvious

BEEZ said:


> Also Wilcox is no one's backup. The moment he can get out of Clipperland is the moment he goes to a team where he will get minutes and can start. Playing behind Howard is like playing behind Brand. He doesnt want that


I could see Wilcox and Howard playing together a lot if this deal went down.


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## BEEZ

If Howard were to be the Center it would work. Do you guys feel like thats the position he will play?


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## Captain Obvious

BEEZ said:


> If Howard were to be the Center it would work. Do you guys feel like thats the position he will play?


Definitely. The guy's only 19 and he's huge. At the very least, I see him in a Duncan-like situation where he starts at the 4 but plays a lot of minutes at the 5. He's already getting some regular minutes as our center.


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## Idunkonyou

Well I have already posted this but I'll do it again. Basically the Hornets next year will be a ton under the cap. I say we trade Francis and Cato for P.J. Brown, West and J.R. Smith.


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## hobojoe

BEEZ said:


> If Howard were to be the Center it would work. Do you guys feel like thats the position he will play?


Without question. A frontcourt of Wilcox and Howard would be crazy for the future. You just put solid shooters and roleplayers around them and you're set.


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## JNice

BEEZ said:


> If Howard were to be the Center it would work. Do you guys feel like thats the position he will play?



I think a lot of us see him playing center in the future. No reason for him not to. He is already coming in around 6'11" and 265. A lot of teams don't have centers starting that are that big and athletic.

I'd love to see Wilcox and Dwight playing side by side.


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## JNice

It does seem kind of ironic now that if we do trade Francis, we'll be looking for a good SG.


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## Yyzlin

Francis for Brand. Simple enough and it works. I certainly wouldn't do this if I were the Clippers, but Baylor hasn't always been the smartest GM in the world, and from a more superficial standpoint, the deal doesn't look half bad with Wilcox ready to play more minutes. A Howard/Brand frontcourt would be drool-worthy. 

Another possibility would be to swing a core Francis for Boozer deal. Francis/Battie for Boozer/Harpring also works under the cap and helps fills the positional disparities. Utah obviously is displeased with Boozer, and they've been looking for a valid point guard since Stockton left. This year's draft is ridiculously point guard heavy, but in case they want a more secure option next year, this would be a good deal for both teams. Francis fits well with that team mold, mainly because they desperately need a person who can creating scoring opportunities with ease. The only problem is Sloan might not want a player like Francis on his team to begin with.


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## Babir

Guys, but don't you think that there are not too many GMs in NBA who wish to see Francis on their roster?  For example Utah will never make a trade for Steve, that is obvious...

But from proposed deals, I like the Hornets one...We ll receive veteran PF in Brown and promising young players in West and Smith...

Maybe trades with Sonics or Bucks will be even better? for Redd or Allen...


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## HKF

Francis in Utah. :rofl:


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## RP McMurphy

The Magic shouldn't trade Steve Francis just yet. He is going to start playing better soon. He's had stretches like this his whole career and he's always bounced back.



BEEZ said:


> Also Wilcox is no one's backup. The moment he can get out of Clipperland is the moment he goes to a team where he will get minutes and can start. Playing behind Howard is like playing behind Brand. He doesnt want that


I don't think Chris Wilcox is a good enough player to be making those kinds of demands. He's had plenty of chances to prove that he deserves a starting job in this league, and he's pretty much blown all of them. It's time to start calling him a bust.


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## Johnny Mac

...


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## Sir Patchwork

RP McMurphy said:


> I don't think Chris Wilcox is a good enough player to be making those kinds of demands. He's had plenty of chances to prove that he deserves a starting job in this league, and he's pretty much blown all of them. It's time to start calling him a bust.


This is true, he has looked absolutely dreadful lately. He barely plays, and when he does he looks lost. He does make a nice play every now and then, as a lot of athletic guys do, but I can't believe how many people were calling for Brand to be traded early in the season to make room for Wilcox at their long term starting spot.


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## BEEZ

To me if what he was doing the first 6 weeks of the season means anything then I would think that he has a leg to stand on. You have to remember they had him playing Center which he is not. 16 pts and 8 rbds for 6 weeks doesnt seem to be a fluke to me. He hasnt played the same since hes come back off of injury so calling him a bust is not a correct statement. Hes shown what he could do when he gets time so it would be fair for to want to play somewhere where that would happen


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## DwyaneWade4MVP

Why do all of you guys think, Francis has to go??

In a speech to the fans before the pregame Miami @ Orlando started he told all of the fans that he is gonna try anything here to win and I was pretty impressed by that...


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## Captain Obvious

DwyaneWade4MVP said:


> Why do all of you guys think, Francis has to go??
> 
> In a speech to the fans before the pregame Miami @ Orlando started he told all of the fans that he is gonna try anything here to win and I was pretty impressed by that...


I don't think anybody's going to question Francis' heart or his desire to win, but he has really been hurting us lately. I still think the most important thing to do is fire Davis. Not after the season, right now. Another thing is Francis' eye has been really messed up for the last couple of weeks so maybe that has more to do with his lackluster play than he's admitting.


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## Yyzlin

The Francis/Boozer trade is improbable, but so are plenty of the trades that happen. It all hinges on how much Utah wants Boozer out. And let's be real. Sloan may not want Francis on the team, but there's no denying that his skills would be a perfect fit with that team. Right now, they have no one to create on the perimeter except Kirilenko, and that's a huge problem.


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## magicfan187

what about francis for hinrich and chandler? hinrich could start at the two guard and chandler could start at center. with howard and him down low it would be tuff to score with them long arms. and hinrich would give us an outside shooter in our starting lineup to go along with nelson (which would be a good fit with howard when he gets his offense going).


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## BEEZ

Bulls wouldnt give that up for Francis and they probably wouldnt even trade for Francis when they have the same type of player in Ben Gordon


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## RP McMurphy

BEEZ said:


> To me if what he was doing the first 6 weeks of the season means anything then I would think that he has a leg to stand on. You have to remember they had him playing Center which he is not. 16 pts and 8 rbds for 6 weeks doesnt seem to be a fluke to me. He hasnt played the same since hes come back off of injury so calling him a bust is not a correct statement. Hes shown what he could do when he gets time so it would be fair for to want to play somewhere where that would happen


He didn't average 16 points and 8 rebounds for 6 weeks. In November he averaged 13.7 points and 6.8 rebounds, and by December (when Chris Kaman came back from his injury) he was already losing minutes. 

Averaging less than 14 points and 7 rebounds isn't all that good to begin with. There are any number of backup big men who could average those numbers if you gave them a starting job. For example, Antonio McDyess, Stromile Swift, Mike Sweetney, Eddie Griffin, Nick Collison, Malik Rose, Al Jefferson, Melvin Ely. Do all these guys deserve starting jobs too? There aren't enough starting jobs to go around that a player as mediocre as these guys deserves to start. Then when you throw in how badly he's sucked since December, getting a DNP every other game, there's no way I'd want him to start for me.

And if a player is drafted with the eighth pick and can't even be a starter it's fair to call him a bust.


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## BEEZ

RP McMurphy said:


> He didn't average 16 points and 8 rebounds for 6 weeks. In November he averaged 13.7 points and 6.8 rebounds, and by December (when Chris Kaman came back from his injury) he was already losing minutes.
> 
> Averaging less than 14 points and 7 rebounds isn't all that good to begin with. There are any number of backup big men who could average those numbers if you gave them a starting job. For example, Antonio McDyess, Stromile Swift, Mike Sweetney, Eddie Griffin, Nick Collison, Malik Rose, Al Jefferson, Melvin Ely. Do all these guys deserve starting jobs too? There aren't enough starting jobs to go around that a player as mediocre as these guys deserves to start. Then when you throw in how badly he's sucked since December, getting a DNP every other game, there's no way I'd want him to start for me.
> 
> And if a player is drafted with the eighth pick and can't even be a starter it's fair to call him a bust.


 Ok fair enough, but 14 and 7 is decent. All the guys you mentioned are not 14 and 7 guys at the time so I dont know where you are going with that. The Clippers have Elton Brand and a Legit 7 foot Center in front of him so basically who is he going to unseat. Regardless of how he plays hes not going to supplant Brand and with Brand making the money he is, hes not going on the bench. Hes not big enough to be a Center so Im really not understanding where you are coming from. I have stated that hes played bad since his injury but that happens, I just dont see how a guy who was drafted 8th that has had a Borderline All-star caliber Power Forward in front of him who hasnt gotten consistent minutes a bust even though hes only avg 20 minutes a game and had been steadily progressing each of his 3 years in the league. Unfortunately I dont see that as a bust. It makes no sense at this point. even with his sporadic minutes he still avg a respectable 9 pts 5 rbd


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## efes pilsen

how about francis for tony parker. it'd have been an excellent trade . parker is going to sing the long term contract this off season so if we can pull this off it would be sign-and-trade for us. eventhough i don't think R.C Bufford - their GM- is that dumb to take francis i think it's worth trying.


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## BEEZ

efes pilsen said:


> how about francis for tony parker. it'd have been an excellent trade . parker is going to sing the long term contract this off season so if we can pull this off it would be sign-and-trade for us. eventhough i don't think R.C Bufford - their GM- is that dumb to take francis i think it's worth trying.


The only thing is Tony Parker was extended last year. San Antonio would never do that trade as Tony Parker has been playing very well lately


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## efes pilsen

i don't think they extended his contract yet.i agree it would be almost impossible spurs to trade him but maybe if he chokes in the playoffs like last year aftre 2 games agaist lakers that might be our chance . i remember spurs fans and coaching staff was pretty unhappy with his play then.


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## RP McMurphy

BEEZ said:


> Ok fair enough, but 14 and 7 is decent. All the guys you mentioned are not 14 and 7 guys at the time so I dont know where you are going with that.


I'm sorry I did a bad job of making my argument. What I was trying to say is, all these guys *could* average 14 and 7 if they got the same minutes Wilcox was getting for a month. Melvin Ely averaged 16 points and 9.5 rebounds in the first eight games of February (when Emeka Okafor was injured). Stromile Swift is averaging 15 points and 6 rebounds over his last 11 games. Mike Sweetney has had a couple of huge games since becoming a starter. Give any of the other guys I mentioned a starting job and they could do the same thing.

I think you're failing to appreciate that any NBA player is going to put up decent stats if you give them a starting job. That doesn't make them a quality starter.



> The Clippers have Elton Brand and a Legit 7 foot Center in front of him so basically who is he going to unseat. Regardless of how he plays hes not going to supplant Brand and with Brand making the money he is, hes not going on the bench. Hes not big enough to be a Center so Im really not understanding where you are coming from.


Which team is he going to go to then? Here are the teams that have an established power forward, who isn't going anywhere.

Bobcats - Emeka Okafor
Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
Denver - Kenyon Martin
Detroit - Rasheed Wallace
Indiana - Jermaine O'Neal
LA Clippers - Elton Brand
LA Lakers - Lamar Odom
Memphis - Pau Gasol
Minnesota - Kevin Garnett
Philadelphia - Chris Webber
Phoenix - Amare Stoudemire
Portland - Zach Randolph
San Antonio - Tim Duncan
Toronto - Chris Bosh
Utah - Carlos Boozer
Washington - Antawn Jamison

Then there are the teams who have a young power forward prospect who they're already trying to develop, and would never be able to give starter's minutes to both him and Wilcox.

Boston - Al Jefferson
Chicago - Tyson Chandler
Cleveland - Drew Gooden
Golden State - Troy Murphy
New York - Mike Sweetney
Orlando - Dwight Howard
Seattle - Nick Collison

The only teams that leaves are Atlanta, Houston, Miami, Milwaukee, New Jersey, and New Orleans. And I'd still rather have Al Harrington or Udonis Haslem than Wilcox, plus some of those other teams will go after Stromile Swift, or select someone in the draft, rather than Wilcox. You see what I mean? There aren't so many starting power forward jobs around that one is available to every player who averages 14 and 7 for a month.

Back on the topic of Steve Francis, I think the Magic would really hurt themselves by trading him for someone like Wilcox. A frontcourt of Howard and Wilcox may seem to be "oozing with potential," but I have a feeling that if you made Wilcox a starter, a year from now people would start to realize that he's not really that good. It's like the Lakers trading Shaq for Lamar Odom and Caron Butler thinking they were getting a great lineup "for the future," then being a bubble playoff team because Odom and Butler aren't great players to begin with. Most likely Wilcox would never be as good of a player for the Magic as Steve Francis (even with all his weaknesses) will be for the next two or three years if they keep him. If they can trade him for Mike Bibby, do it but if the best they can get is this crap, that would be a panic move in my opinion.


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## JNice

efes pilsen said:


> how about francis for tony parker. it'd have been an excellent trade . parker is going to sing the long term contract this off season so if we can pull this off it would be sign-and-trade for us. eventhough i don't think R.C Bufford - their GM- is that dumb to take francis i think it's worth trying.



I doubt Popovich would want Francis. Pop thinks Ginobili plays out of control. He'd lose all his hair if he were coaching Francis.

Sad thing is Orlando along with a lot of other teams could have drafted Parker a while back without a problem.


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## Babir

> Sad thing is Orlando along with a lot of other teams could have drafted Parker a while back without a problem.


 Right...But we drafted Sasser who is somewhere in Europe now and passed on Tinsley, Parker, Randolf and Josh Howard...


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## Captain Obvious

I figured I'd bump this. I read in another thread a Hawks fan propose Francis for Donta Smith and their first. I don't think the Hawks would do that, but maybe something like Francis and our first for Diaw and their first plus a bad contract (Drobnjak?) could happen. We still get some cap room, we get a big guard, and more importantly we get to draft a marquee player to play with Dwight, Jameer, Hedo, and the rest of our young core. The question is, would the Hawks eat Francis' contract? They desperately need a point guard, and a Francis-Josh Smith duo would bring excitement and some respectability back to ATL. What do you guys think? Also, other than Denver, what teams would truly be interested in Francis?


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## ravor44

Captain Obvious said:


> I think it's becoming clear that Francis needs to go this offseason. Here's a deal that I propose:
> 
> Orlando Trades:
> Francis
> Kasun
> 
> Clippers Trade:
> Simmons (resigned)
> Wilcox
> Chalmers
> Trade Exception
> 
> It's obvious why we do this. We get a backcourt that won't get killed defensively. We also save some money and get two young, exciting players. As for the Clippers, they can put Francis at the 2 next to 6'7" Livingston in a perfect set up. They give up very little considering Simmons could easily leave this offseason. Clippers end up with a very nice lineup of Livingston, Francis, Maggette, Brand, and Kaman. As for us:
> 
> PG- Nelson, Christie, Chalmers
> SG- Simmons, Stevenson
> SF- Hill, Turkoglu
> PF- Howard, Wilcox, Garrity
> C- Cato, Battie
> 
> IL: DeClercq
> Plus whoever we draft.
> 
> Thoughts?



here is a better deal:
Orlando trades: PG Steve Francis (21.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.9 apg in 37.4 minutes)
C Mario Kasun	(2.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.1 minutes)
Orlando receives: PG Damon Stoudamire	(16.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.6 apg in 33.7 minutes)
C Joel Przybilla	(5.1 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.1 ppg, +1.4 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Portland trades: PG Damon Stoudamire	(16.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.6 apg in 33.7 minutes)
C Joel Przybilla	(5.1 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.2 minutes)
Portland receives: PG Steve Francis	(21.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.9 apg in 37.4 minutes)
C Mario Kasun	(2.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.1 ppg, -1.4 rpg, and +0.8 apg.


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## Captain Obvious

No.


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## Captain Obvious

Here's one I really like too:

New Orleans trades: PF Maciej Lampe (2.5 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.7 minutes) 
SF George Lynch (4.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.2 apg in 22.5 minutes) 
PF PJ Brown (10.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.8 minutes) 
NO 2005 First round pick 
New Orleans receives: SF Brandon Hunter (2.4 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.0 apg in 5.1 minutes) 
SF Stacey Augmon (2.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.8 minutes) 
PG Steve Francis (21.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.8 apg in 37.5 minutes)
ORL 2005 First round pick 
Change in team outlook: +9.6 ppg, -6.3 rpg, and +2.6 apg. 

Orlando trades: SF Brandon Hunter (2.4 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.0 apg in 5.1 minutes) 
SF Stacey Augmon (2.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.8 minutes) 
PG Steve Francis (21.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.8 apg in 37.5 minutes) 
ORL 2005 First Round pick
Orlando receives: PF Maciej Lampe (2.5 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.7 minutes) 
SF George Lynch (4.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.2 apg in 22.5 minutes) 
PF PJ Brown (10.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.8 minutes) 
NO 2005 First Round pick 
Change in team outlook: -9.6 ppg, +6.3 rpg, and -2.6 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


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## hobojoe

ravor44 said:


> here is a better deal:
> Orlando trades: PG Steve Francis (21.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.9 apg in 37.4 minutes)
> C Mario Kasun	(2.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.1 minutes)
> Orlando receives: PG Damon Stoudamire	(16.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.6 apg in 33.7 minutes)
> C Joel Przybilla	(5.1 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.2 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: -3.1 ppg, +1.4 rpg, and -0.8 apg.
> 
> Portland trades: PG Damon Stoudamire	(16.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.6 apg in 33.7 minutes)
> C Joel Przybilla	(5.1 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.2 minutes)
> Portland receives: PG Steve Francis	(21.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.9 apg in 37.4 minutes)
> C Mario Kasun	(2.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.1 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: +3.1 ppg, -1.4 rpg, and +0.8 apg.


 Could never work. Stoudamire's a free agent after the season and it would never work salary wise once he gets a new contract which should be over a 50% pay cut for him, so a sign and trade wouldn't work either. And besides, it's a horrible trade to begin with.


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## JNice

I wouldn't touch Damon Stoudemire with a 10 foot pole.


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## Babir

"Great" trade idea with Blazers!!! the only thing we need after that trade is to make deal with Nuggets and get Boykins, then we ll have Nelson on SF and Damon with Earl in backcourt :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: 
But if to be serious...We need a SG, and not Simmons, Chalmers, Diaw and etc. we need quailty one, someone like Redd or Allen...Or maybe to look for landing Swift and Wells...Curry is not happy in Chicago, L. Hughes will be free agent...


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## Captain Obvious

I think our ideal trading partner is actually the Clippers. Livingston and Francis would be a perfect backcourt with the tall point next to the short Francis. I know the Clippers want to get rid of Wilcox but supposedly they want to unload Maggette too. So, how about:

Maggette, Wilcox, and a resigned Jaric for Francis, Garrity, and a pick.

Our lineup next year:

Nelson, Jaric
Maggette, Christie, Stevenson
Hill, Turkoglu
Howard, Wilcox
Cato, Battie, Kasun

And that doesn't even include our draft picks!


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## hobojoe

I think with the stretch of games Dwight Howard's put up over the past 5 or 6, it's going to be a lot more tempting for Weisbrod to at least explore Francis trades this offseason. Howard's proving that he's going to be ready to be a star as soon as next season, if not the year after. Trading Francis will only speed up the process.


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## efes pilsen

how about kirk hinrick? he is a true point guard with a lot of upsides. since they have ben gordon that would be a intriguing back court for them.


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## JNice

Captain Obvious said:


> I think our ideal trading partner is actually the Clippers. Livingston and Francis would be a perfect backcourt with the tall point next to the short Francis. I know the Clippers want to get rid of Wilcox but supposedly they want to unload Maggette too. So, how about:
> 
> Maggette, Wilcox, and a resigned Jaric for Francis, Garrity, and a pick.
> 
> Our lineup next year:
> 
> Nelson, Jaric
> Maggette, Christie, Stevenson
> Hill, Turkoglu
> Howard, Wilcox
> Cato, Battie, Kasun
> 
> And that doesn't even include our draft picks!



I like that deal. The only downfall is looking at that lineup, our outside shooting is not very good ... well, I guess not really any worse than it already is anyway. But we get lots of good youth back for that trade. I'm not sure if the Clippers would do that deal.


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## Babir

Trade for Magette sounds great and Grant Hill would be happy


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## BEEZ

efes pilsen said:


> how about kirk hinrick? he is a true point guard with a lot of upsides. since they have ben gordon that would be a intriguing back court for them.


 Why would the Bulls trade for Hinrich when they have Francis ver 2 in Ben Gordon. You would have essentially the same type of player in the backcourt.


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## Pinball

Captain Obvious said:


> I think our ideal trading partner is actually the Clippers. Livingston and Francis would be a perfect backcourt with the tall point next to the short Francis. I know the Clippers want to get rid of Wilcox but supposedly they want to unload Maggette too. So, how about:
> 
> Maggette, Wilcox, and a resigned Jaric for Francis, Garrity, and a pick.
> 
> Our lineup next year:
> 
> Nelson, Jaric
> Maggette, Christie, Stevenson
> Hill, Turkoglu
> Howard, Wilcox
> Cato, Battie, Kasun
> 
> And that doesn't even include our draft picks!


If the Clips are willing, that isn't a bad deal. Would it really get Howard more touches, though? Maggette does like to dominate the ball.


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## Captain Obvious

Pinball said:


> If the Clips are willing, that isn't a bad deal. Would it really get Howard more touches, though? Maggette does like to dominate the ball.


Honestly I would rather get Simmons, maybe a sign and trade Simmons, Jaric, and Kaman for Francis and filler. However, I'm trying to think of this from the Clippers POV. Their top priority seems to be resigning Simmons. They don't want Maggette or Wilcox, and we don't want Francis. Maggette dominates the ball some, but remember this is Steve Francis we're comparing him to. Another thing is Maggette's a solid defender at the 2 unlike Francis.


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## hobojoe

Captain Obvious said:


> Honestly I would rather get Simmons, maybe a sign and trade Simmons, Jaric, and Kaman for Francis and filler. However, I'm trying to think of this from the Clippers POV. Their top priority seems to be resigning Simmons. They don't want Maggette or Wilcox, and we don't want Francis. Maggette dominates the ball some, but remember this is Steve Francis we're comparing him to. Another thing is Maggette's a solid defender at the 2 unlike Francis.


 Some good or bad news, depending on how you look at it, coming from Chad Ford on Insider (talking about Jameer Nelson):

_He's played well enough that there's talk that Steve Francis, who was moved over to the two, might be shipped out next summer. That might be a little premature given that Nelson isn't a "pure" point guard either, but the Magic like what they're seeing so far._

The fact that there's been talk of trading Francis already is a good sign to me. I want to see Francis traded as soon as possible while he still has high trade value. I knew that the second we traded for him we would never win a title with him running the show, he would make the Magic just good enough to be a playoff team for a few years but never make any noise in the playoffs past perhaps a second round birth or two. As the saying goes, "the future is now", might as well hand over the team to Howard, Nelson and whoever the Magic can acquire for Francis.


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## Zuca

Captain Obvious said:


> I think our ideal trading partner is actually the Clippers. Livingston and Francis would be a perfect backcourt with the tall point next to the short Francis. I know the Clippers want to get rid of Wilcox but supposedly they want to unload Maggette too. So, how about:
> 
> Maggette, Wilcox, and a resigned Jaric for Francis, Garrity, and a pick.
> 
> Our lineup next year:
> 
> Nelson, Jaric
> Maggette, Christie, Stevenson
> Hill, Turkoglu
> Howard, Wilcox
> Cato, Battie, Kasun
> 
> And that doesn't even include our draft picks!


Isn't better for you guys to trade Christie with Francis for Maggette, Chalmers, Wilcox and a resigned Jaric, since Christie wants out, and Clippers will have cap space (thanks to Kittles expiring contract)??

Nelson/Chalmers
Maggette/Jaric/Stevenson
Hill/Turkoglu
Howard/Wilcox
Cato/Battie/Kasun


----------



## Captain Obvious

Here's a variation to the NO trade, it might make sense if they land Bogut in the draft:

Orlando Trades:
Francis, Hunter, Garrity or Stevenson, 2nd rounder
Orlando Gets:
Magloire, Claxton, Lynch, Lampe

New Orleans Trades:
Magloire, Claxton, Lynch, Lampe
New Orleans Gets:
Francis, Hunter, 2nd rounder

Atlanta (or team with cap room) gets:
Garrity or Stevenson

The third team is included since Magloire is a BYC guy. I think a team under the cap would take one of the two guys for free.

Orlando:
Nelson, Claxton
Turkoglu, Christie, 1st rounder
Hill, Lynch
Howard, Battie, Lampe
Magloire, Cato

New Orleans:
Francis, Dickau
Smith, Jacobsen
Nailon, Nachbar
Brown, West, Hunter
Bogut, Andersen, Vroman


----------



## hobojoe

JNice mentioned Mickael Pietrus as a possible young talented shooting guard we could look to acquire; I for one am a huge Pietrus fan, I really like his game and think he's an future all-star and all-defensive team member. The problem is that there's almost no way we could acquire him because of the salary differences between he and Francis. They're not trading Baron Davis (or in a deal involving Pietrus, J-Rich), which means in order to get Pietrus we'd have to take on both Adonal Foyle and Derek Fisher's ridiculous contracts (or Troy Murphy if they'd give him up). No way we should do that. Way too much money for mediocre players. The easiest way to cripple a franchise is to throw that kind of money at guys like Foyle and Fisher. Besides, I doubt now that they have Baron Davis they'd want Francis unless for some reason they wanted to play them in the backcourt together.


----------



## Idunkonyou

I would mind seeing the Magic make a trade that lands them J.R. Smith and Magloire. J.R. Smith, Howard, Magloire and Nelson being on the same team would be a threat for years.


----------



## hobojoe

Idunkonyou said:


> I would mind seeing the Magic make a trade that lands them J.R. Smith and Magloire. J.R. Smith, Howard, Magloire and Nelson being on the same team would be a threat for years.


 I can't see the Hornets giving up JR Smith for almost anything right now. Magloire is a possibility in my opinion, but Smith is merely a pipe dream for us at this point.


----------



## JNice

hobojoe said:


> JNice mentioned Mickael Pietrus as a possible young talented shooting guard we could look to acquire; I for one am a huge Pietrus fan, I really like his game and think he's an future all-star and all-defensive team member. The problem is that there's almost no way we could acquire him because of the salary differences between he and Francis. They're not trading Baron Davis (or in a deal involving Pietrus, J-Rich), which means in order to get Pietrus we'd have to take on both Adonal Foyle and Derek Fisher's ridiculous contracts (or Troy Murphy if they'd give him up). No way we should do that. Way too much money for mediocre players. The easiest way to cripple a franchise is to throw that kind of money at guys like Foyle and Fisher. Besides, I doubt now that they have Baron Davis they'd want Francis unless for some reason they wanted to play them in the backcourt together.


I like the idea of Pietrus just because he is potentially such a great defender ... but the possibilities of that pretty much died once they traded for Baron Davis.


----------



## hobojoe

JNice said:


> I like the idea of Pietrus just because he is potentially such a great defender ... but the possibilities of that pretty much died once they traded for Baron Davis.


 Any chance Boston would trade Tony Allen? He's a terrific young defender with some offensive talent, and he's extremely athletic. Boston could have a Francis-Ricky Davis-Pierce-Walker-LaFrentz/Blount lineup. I doubt they'd really want to add Francis though, he Davis, Pierce and Walker all on the same team is just asking for trouble. Whether it be chemistry problems, not enough shots to go around or Francis and Pierce both wanting to dominate the ball -- it wouldn't work. Allen is one terrific young player though, I'd love to get him some how.


----------



## hobojoe

How about trying to bring Marquis Daniels back to his home in Orlando? We know the Mavs are never afraid to add a big name to their roster over the offseason even if he doesn't really fit a need, they may be tempted to trade for Francis if he were available for just Daniels and filler(s). Daniels is a talented and versatile player who could really help the Magic. He's locked up for another 5 years for the MLE.

Orlando trades: PG Steve Francis (21.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 7.0 apg in 37.9 minutes) 
Orlando receives: Tariq Abdul-Wahad (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
SG Marquis Daniels (10.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 25.3 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -11.4 ppg, -2.0 rpg, and -4.9 apg. 

Dallas trades: Tariq Abdul-Wahad (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
SG Marquis Daniels (10.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 25.3 minutes) 
Dallas receives: PG Steve Francis (21.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 7.0 apg in 37.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +11.4 ppg, +2.0 rpg, and +4.9 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


Abdul-Wahad is just a filler, but his big contract becomes an expiring deal after next year so he could potentially be a trading asset down the road.


----------



## Idunkonyou

hobojoe said:


> How about trying to bring Marquis Daniels back to his home in Orlando? We know the Mavs are never afraid to add a big name to their roster over the offseason even if he doesn't really fit a need, they may be tempted to trade for Francis if he were available for just Daniels and filler(s). Daniels is a talented and versatile player who could really help the Magic. He's locked up for another 5 years for the MLE.
> 
> Orlando trades: PG Steve Francis (21.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 7.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
> Orlando receives: Tariq Abdul-Wahad (No games yet played in 2004/05)
> SG Marquis Daniels (10.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 25.3 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: -11.4 ppg, -2.0 rpg, and -4.9 apg.
> 
> Dallas trades: Tariq Abdul-Wahad (No games yet played in 2004/05)
> SG Marquis Daniels (10.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 25.3 minutes)
> Dallas receives: PG Steve Francis (21.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 7.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: +11.4 ppg, +2.0 rpg, and +4.9 apg.
> 
> TRADE ACCEPTED
> 
> 
> Abdul-Wahad is just a filler, but his big contract becomes an expiring deal after next year so he could potentially be a trading asset down the road.


I'd rather get Josh Howard myself.


----------



## hobojoe

Idunkonyou said:


> I'd rather get Josh Howard myself.


 I would as well, Howard is without question the better defender and overall player. At this point though, he plays a much bigger role for Dallas than Daniels and it's less likely they'd trade him. If they would, by all means get him instead. It'd throw off the salaries and we'd have to take on a bigger contract than Abdul-Wahad, or take on Abdul-Wahad and a 3rd player with a decent sized contract to make up for the difference. Playing Howard concerns me a little bit as well. That really leaves the Magic with a starting lineup that's potentially the worst 3-point shooting lineup in the league. Only Nelson can even make 3's of that lineup, and he doesn't have a consistent 3-point shot yet.


----------



## Captain Obvious

hobojoe said:


> How about trying to bring Marquis Daniels back to his home in Orlando? We know the Mavs are never afraid to add a big name to their roster over the offseason even if he doesn't really fit a need, they may be tempted to trade for Francis if he were available for just Daniels and filler(s). Daniels is a talented and versatile player who could really help the Magic. He's locked up for another 5 years for the MLE.
> 
> Orlando trades: PG Steve Francis (21.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 7.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
> Orlando receives: Tariq Abdul-Wahad (No games yet played in 2004/05)
> SG Marquis Daniels (10.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 25.3 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: -11.4 ppg, -2.0 rpg, and -4.9 apg.
> 
> Dallas trades: Tariq Abdul-Wahad (No games yet played in 2004/05)
> SG Marquis Daniels (10.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 25.3 minutes)
> Dallas receives: PG Steve Francis (21.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 7.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: +11.4 ppg, +2.0 rpg, and +4.9 apg.
> 
> TRADE ACCEPTED
> 
> 
> Abdul-Wahad is just a filler, but his big contract becomes an expiring deal after next year so he could potentially be a trading asset down the road.


No way, that's horrible. Daniels is not that good at all. 

I like the Boston idea, they'll need a point with Payton gone. We'd have to take a bad contract like LaFrentz, but I wouldn't mind that since he's pretty good. I seriously doubt that they'd give up Allen, but this would work:

Francis, 2nd for LaFrentz, Allen, and Reed


----------



## Idunkonyou

hobojoe said:


> I would as well, Howard is without question the better defender and overall player. At this point though, he plays a much bigger role for Dallas than Daniels and it's less likely they'd trade him. If they would, by all means get him instead. It'd throw off the salaries and we'd have to take on a bigger contract than Abdul-Wahad, or take on Abdul-Wahad and a 3rd player with a decent sized contract to make up for the difference. Playing Howard concerns me a little bit as well. That really leaves the Magic with a starting lineup that's potentially the worst 3-point shooting lineup in the league. Only Nelson can even make 3's of that lineup, and he doesn't have a consistent 3-point shot yet.


We don't have a great 3P shooter starting now. It wouldn't be a big difference, except we would have a real SG/SF at the 2. 

Dallas is always looking for another big name and IMO they would take Francis would out question. 

This trade works:

Magic trades Francis, Christie and Cato. 

Mavs trade Stackhouse, Howard, Van Horn and Wahad. 

Trade Accepted. 

2005/2006 Magic

PGs Nelson, Stevenson
SGs Howard, Stackhouse, (R)
SFs Hill, Hedo, Augmon
PFs Swift (MLE), Van Horn, Garrity
Cs Howard, Battie, Kasun


----------



## hobojoe

Captain Obvious said:


> No way, that's horrible. Daniels is not that not good at all.


Daniels may not be a great player, but we're not looking for a franchise player or a guy who's going to score 30 ppg. The plan is to build around Howard and Nelson, adding guys like Daniels who would help the Magic now and for the future is what I think the Magic need to do. He fills a hole they have which is at SG, he's young and will be a good role player for the team. And of course there's the addition by subtraction factor since we're giving up Francis. 

PG- Jameer Nelson | Daniel Ewing/Nate Robinson (2nd Rounder)
SG- Marquis Daniels | DeShawn Stevenson
SF- Grant Hill | Hedo Turkoglu | Pat Garrity
PF- Dwight Howard | Tony Battie
C- Kelvin Cato | (Tony Battie) | Chris/Taft/Johan Petro/Channing Frye (First Rounder)




> I like the Boston idea, they'll need a point with Payton gone. We'd have to take a bad contract like LaFrentz, but I wouldn't mind that since he's pretty good. I seriously doubt that they'd give up Allen, but this would work:
> 
> Francis, 2nd for LaFrentz, Allen, and Reed


I would do that deal in a second.


----------



## sherwin

You guys need to "trade" Weisbrod before thinking about having a healthy ballclub.

That said, don't bother including rookie contracts (people mentiong JR Smith, etc) in trade ideas. Rookie contracts for potential/star players just simply aren't traded.


----------



## rebelsun

After Memphis was swept in the first round again, the more I'm liking a Francis to Memphis deal. How about...

Memphis receives:
Steve Francis

Orlando recevies:
Jason Williams
James Posey
(Future 1st rounder?/2nd rounder?)

TRADE ACCEPTED

Posey gives them the wing defender they've needed and Williams gives them depth and talent at PG. In that scenario, I would have Jameer start and bring Williams' erratic talent off the bench as a 6th man (like Bobby Jackson).

Nelson/Williams/Barrett
Posey/Christie/DeShawn
Hill/Turkoglu/Garrity/Augmon
Howard/(2005 1st rounder)/Hunter
Cato/Battie/Kasun

Memphis gets the boost in talent that they sorely need. I think the Grizz need to do something serious in the offseason (beyond ostracizing Bonzi), or else they might become the T-Wolves of recent history. 

Francis/Watson(re-signed)/Burks
Miller/Jones
Battier/Emmett
Gasol/Cardinal
Wright/(2005 1st rounder)/Jake


----------



## hobojoe

RebelSun said:


> After Memphis was swept in the first round again, the more I'm liking a Francis to Memphis deal. How about...
> 
> Memphis receives:
> Steve Francis
> 
> Orlando recevies:
> Jason Williams
> James Posey
> (Future 1st rounder?/2nd rounder?)
> 
> TRADE ACCEPTED
> 
> Posey gives them the wing defender they've needed and Williams gives them depth and talent at PG. In that scenario, I would have Jameer start and bring Williams' erratic talent off the bench as a 6th man (like Bobby Jackson).
> 
> Nelson/Williams/Barrett
> Posey/Christie/DeShawn
> Hill/Turkoglu/Garrity/Augmon
> Howard/(2005 1st rounder)/Hunter
> Cato/Battie/Kasun
> 
> Memphis gets the boost in talent that they sorely need. I think the Grizz need to do something serious in the offseason (beyond ostracizing Bonzi), or else they might become the T-Wolves of recent history.
> 
> Francis/Watson(re-signed)/Burks
> Miller/Jones
> Battier/Emmett
> Gasol/Cardinal
> Wright/(2005 1st rounder)/Jake


 I'm only hesitant to make that deal if I'm the Magic because I question Williams' willingness to embrace the role of a 6th man behind a 2nd year player.


----------



## JNice

hobojoe said:


> I'm only hesitant to make that deal if I'm the Magic because I question Williams' willingness to embrace the role of a 6th man behind a 2nd year player.


I'd do it for Watson, Posey, and a 1st rounder. Although I'm not sure of those two guys contracts.

I'd like Williams because he is fun to watch, but in terms of winning, I don't think I would want to go with him.


----------



## hobojoe

JNice said:


> I'd do it for Watson, Posey, and a 1st rounder. Although I'm not sure of those two guys contracts.


I'd like Watson as well, but he's a free agent so he obviously can't be traded. I seriously doubt anyone pays him more than the MLE though, so we could sign him outright if he'd come here. 



> I'd like Williams because he is fun to watch, but in terms of winning, I don't think I would want to go with him.


Then again Francis can be fun to watch at times too, I sure as hell don't like him.


----------



## Babir

There is a rumor that Pau Gasol would be available this summer. Do you think there are any chances to make a deal with Memphis in that direction?


----------



## Yyzlin

I wouldn't do the Posey/Williams trade for Francis. Posey is a nice player who seriously overacheived a year ago, hitting career highs in just about every category. I'm fairly confident his performance this year is much closer to his real talent than the year before. Williams is kinda icky. 

And I don't think we have any shot at getting Gasol. Francis wouldn't get it done. Only Howard would make the deal go, and the Magic aren't going to even consider that.


----------



## JNice

..

Unfortunately, from what Weisbrod has said, I think we can expect both Francis and Christie to be playing for Orlando come opening day next season. The only guy we might see traded is Garrity and that won't be for much.


----------



## Carbo04

I don't see why you guys want Francis gone so bad. I think you guys need to get rid of trash like Christie first.


----------



## hobojoe

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> Unfortunately, from what Weisbrod has said, I think we can expect both Francis and Christie to be playing for Orlando come opening day next season. The only guy we might see traded is Garrity and that won't be for much.


I don't think that's necessarily true. Weisbrod has to say those things to keep their value as high as he can. It's obvious Christie won't be playing another game for the Magic, and Francis has already worn out his welcome after one season. Steve is still likely to be traded in my opinion. Between the way he reacted to the Mobley trade, the huge collapse by the Magic in the 2nd half, the reports that Weisbrod was already talking to other teams about trading Francis before the season was even over leads me to believe that this "Francis will retire in a Magic uniform if I had my way" stuff is bull ****.


----------



## Babir

What about getting Nene and A.Miller from Nuggets?


----------



## SmithRocSSU

Magic trades:

Francis
Christie
Hedo
Cato

Wolves trade:

Garnett
2nd rounder

Nelson/Barrett/Louis Williams(R)
Ronald Murray(FA)/DeShawn/Hodge(R)
Hill/Hodge(R)/Garrity/Augmon
Garnett/Villanueva(R)
Howard/Battie/Kasun/Jerome James(FA)

Something like that. Garnett could be a nice teacher for Howard.


----------



## hobojoe

Babir said:


> What about getting Nene and A.Miller from Nuggets?


I thought of the same exact thing watching the Denver game last night. Would work great for the Magic, but I don't really think Denver would do it -- though it's not out of the question. Miller is strong enough to play the SG spot in my opinion, although it'll severly limit his scoring output by not having mismatches in the post anymore, which is where is scoring thrives. I'd definitely do the trade though, a front line of Nene and Dwight Howard is crazy athletic, and very good defensively (not to mention ridiculously young).


----------



## Babir

I ll be the happiest men in the world if we get KG, but that's just a dream.

Deal with Nuggets sounds more realistical, we can give them expiring contracts of Cato and Chrisitie as well...If we only can get rid of Fransice, Christie, Cato, Garrity and get A.Miller and Nene...Just think about our starting lineup: Miller, Turk, Hill, Howard, Nene :angel:


----------



## hobojoe

Babir said:


> I ll be the happiest men in the world if we get KG, but that's just a dream.
> 
> Deal with Nuggets sounds more realistical, we can give them expiring contracts of Cato and Chrisitie as well...If we only can get rid of Fransice, Christie, Cato, Garrity and get A.Miller and Nene...Just think about our starting lineup: Miller, Turk, Hill, Howard, Nene :angel:


If we trade for Miller and Nene I'd rather start Nelson, Miller, Hill, Howard and Nene bringing Hedo off the bench again.


----------



## Babir

hobojoe, I am not a big supporter of "small" lineups... So if we trade for Miller and Nene, Andre should be the starting PG with Nelson coming of the bench. Of course during the game they can share the backcourt at the same time...

What do you think about possibilities to get R.Allen or M. Redd?


----------



## Captain Obvious

The Nuggets offered Miller, Lenard, and Skita for Francis earlier. The Nuggets had a great finish but unfortunately drew SA in the first, so I don't think they'd be looking to make a big move.

I say focus on the guys that are actually attainable via trade (Magloire, Maggette, etc.) or free agency (Jaric, Simmons, Kwame, etc.)


----------



## hobojoe

Babir said:


> hobojoe, I am not a big supporter of "small" lineups... So if we trade for Miller and Nene, Andre should be the starting PG with Nelson coming of the bench. Of course during the game they can share the backcourt at the same time...
> 
> What do you think about possibilities to get R.Allen or M. Redd?


Even Charles Barkley said during halftime of the Nuggets vs. Spurs games that Denver needs to get a PG because he feels Andre Miller is more suited to play SG. I do too, Miller has the size to play SG in my opinion. Also, I like the instant offense Hedo provides off the bench. You also need to take into account how good Nelson was as a starter towards the end of the season -- I don't really want to move him back to the bench. 

Neither Allen nor Redd are possibilities to sign outright, but a sign and trade is always possible.


----------



## WhoRocks

Joining this thread late, but some good ideas have already been thrown around, i liked the original clips idea.

I also believe Francis' trade value must be pretty low and only teams in a certain situation would trade for him. I don't think a rebuilding team would take him as most people know he's not good enough to lead a team to the playoffs without being surrounded by pretty good players, whilst his domination of the ball could hinder developing players whom they won't give up to the Magic anyway. Incidentally he's not a big enough draw either to put people in the stands.

A team that takes Francis must be able to accomodate a shoot-first guard and not require a pure point in their system. With Weisbrod at the helm, this is almost a certainty not to take place, but it got me thinking would Indiana take Francis purely to get rid of Artest? We need to find a trade partner who are actively seeking a trade, whether to clear cap room or push them over the top and whilst Indiana may not be doing either, Artest is an exceptional circumstance.

Jermaine O'Neal can play inside and out, and would be the predominant player Francis would have to feed so Francis should be able to get him the ball in scoring positions pretty frequently. Artest would give us a tough wing to play alongside Grant and basically do what Christie was supposed to do but score more. I know the salaries don't match so they'd have to give us maybe a back up PG and some garbage as well.

This might be the most far-fetched trade suggested due to the personalities involved, but the noise coming out of Orlando will make me very surprised if Francis isnt in Orlando opening day anyway.


----------



## Jwill55gRizZ

I Have two trades that i really like..

1) Steve Francis + 11 for #2 + P.J Brown

Select Marvin Williams and the Magic have a great future, Marv,Dwight, and Nelson.. Sweeeeeeeet!

or 

2) Steve Francis for Ron Artest 

The Pacers have shown they can play w/o Artest, and it'd be a trade of "disgruntled stars".. The Magic could really use a SF of the future to Defend the best players on the court, while chipping in scoring 18 or so.. good trade for both teams

3) Steve Francis + DeShawn Stevenson for Josh Howard + Marquies Daniels

The Magic get two young players that would fit well at the 2/3 for the future..

breakdown each trade and tell me your thoughts


----------



## hobojoe

Jwill55gRizZ said:


> 1) Steve Francis + 11 for #2 + P.J Brown
> 2) Steve Francis for Ron Artest


I'd love either of those trades. Artest would be great for our team, assuming of course that he controls himself.


----------



## The Chach

Artest would be a good fit, but it wont happen with him back next year, the pacers will be one of the heavy weight favorites to win the east


----------



## Tmac=PlainSick

Why don't yall consider this one:

Dallas Trades: Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse
Dallas Gets: Steve Francis, Deshawn Stevenson,2nd round pick

Orlando Trades: Steve Francis,Deshawn Stevenson,2nd round pick
Orlando Gets: Jason Terry,Jerry Stackhouse


----------



## hobojoe

Tmac=PlainSick said:


> Why don't yall consider this one:
> 
> Dallas Trades: Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse
> Dallas Gets: Steve Francis, Deshawn Stevenson,2nd round pick
> 
> Orlando Trades: Steve Francis,Deshawn Stevenson,2nd round pick
> Orlando Gets: Jason Terry,Jerry Stackhouse


 I like getting Terry, he's really shown a lot this year with the Mavs -- but I hate getting Stackhouse. He's a one-dimensional player who is horrible defensively, has been known to be a cancer on several teams, is past his prime, and needs the ball in his hands to be effective (which we all know is not good, i.e. Steve Francis). If Orlando and Dallas could get a deal to work with Terry and without Stackhouse, I'd be all for it.


----------



## Captain Obvious

What did you guys think of the fake Lakers trade? It was Francis for Butler, Atkins, Cook, Divac, and their first.

Let's say we package the 10 and 11 for the 5 and take Gerald Green. Divac retires or is bought out, leaving us with this:

Nelson, Atkins
Butler, Stevenson, Green
Hill, Turkoglu
Howard, Cook
Cato, Battie, Kasun

Doesn't help much in the way of defense although Butler is decent, but we fill some holes and gain a lot of shooting that we lost in the Mobley deal. Even though the proposal was fake I think it's a fair and realistic deal.


----------



## hobojoe

Captain Obvious said:


> What did you guys think of the fake Lakers trade? It was Francis for Butler, Atkins, Cook, Divac, and their first.
> 
> Let's say we package the 10 and 11 for the 5 and take Gerald Green. Divac retires or is bought out, leaving us with this:
> 
> Nelson, Atkins
> Butler, Stevenson, Green
> Hill, Turkoglu
> Howard, Cook
> Cato, Battie, Kasun
> 
> Doesn't help much in the way of defense although Butler is decent, but we fill some holes and gain a lot of shooting that we lost in the Mobley deal. Even though the proposal was fake I think it's a fair and realistic deal.


 I'd do that trade in a second. Atkins is a good shooter, and a pretty good backup PG for Jameer. Butler is a very talented young player who can play good defense, and who really came on towards the end of last season. I like getting Brian Cook too, he could be very valuable in games where Turkoglu isn't on or we need someone to come in and knock down some 3's or just to stretch the defense. Giving us their 1st round pick makes this trade a homerun in my opinion, we would then have two lottery picks to work with as well as the talent we get in this trade -- seems almost too good to be true. 

The Lakers would be insane to do it though, Francis, Kobe and Odom all on the same team? That's hilarious. That would work for about one day of training camp before there were problems over how many shots everyone gets and who controls the ball for the majority of the time.


----------



## MacDanny 6

That's a terrible trade. A few months ago Steve Francis was considered an All-Star snub, now you want to trade him for Caron Butler and other crappy Laker players? You guys hate on Francis too much, he hit a lot of clutch shots for us this year and he's way better than any point guard we've had in recent years. Jameer Nelson as a starter had good numbers but did you guys check out the Magic's record with him as a starter? I don't know it off the top of my head but I know it was very bad.


----------



## hobojoe

Franco 5 said:


> That's a terrible trade. A few months ago Steve Francis was considered an All-Star snub, now you want to trade him for Caron Butler and other crappy Laker players? You guys hate on Francis too much, he hit a lot of clutch shots for us this year and he's way better than any point guard we've had in recent years. Jameer Nelson as a starter had good numbers but did you guys check out the Magic's record with him as a starter? I don't know it off the top of my head but I know it was very bad.


You can't possibly blame the Magic's poor record on Jameer. You can blame it on Weisbrod trading away Mobley, or Cato quitting on the team, or Francis playing inconsistently, or bad coaching -- but not on Jameer.


----------



## MacDanny 6

inconsistent? He averaged 21 ppg, 6 rpg, 7 asp. If that's inconsistent, I don't even wanna know what he would average if he was consistent.


----------



## hobojoe

Franco 5 said:


> inconsistent? He averaged 21 ppg, 6 rpg, 7 asp. If that's inconsistent, I don't even wanna know what he would average if he was consistent.




I assumed everyone knew what the word inconsistent means, but based on that I guess I was wrong. Putting up good numbers doesn't have anything to do with being consistent. 

Inconsistent: Not regular or predictable; erratic. 

If that doesn't describe Francis' play this season, I don't know what does. Francis was inconsistent regardless of whether he put up good stats for the year or not.


----------



## Babir

Paul Pierce wants to leave Celtics, at least there are some rumors...Do you think there are trade possibilities to get him? Maybe Francis, Kato and Christie for Paul and someone?


----------



## MacDanny 6

Babir said:


> Paul Pierce wants to leave Celtics, at least there are some rumors...Do you think there are trade possibilities to get him? Maybe Francis, Kato and Christie for Paul and someone?


LOL isn't this just like doing the T-Mac trade over again but this time we're in Houston's shoes?


----------



## Enigma

Franco 5 said:


> LOL isn't this just like doing the T-Mac trade over again but this time we're in Houston's shoes?


Maybe, but Houston never had the equivalent of a Jameer Nelson or Grant Hill.


----------



## hobojoe

I wouldn't want Paul Pierce, personally. He can be a head case at times, plus he's not an elite player in the league. We're trading Francis, but getting back a guy in Pierce who dominates the ball almost as much and turns the ball over frequently as well. This trade seems like a step sideways to me, no real reason to do it in my opinion.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Memphis may be looking to shake things up. How about this deal?

Jason Williams, James Posey, Lorenzen Wright, #19 for Steve Francis, Kelvin Cato, and #44

Draft Antoine Wright, Andray Blatche, and Brandon Bass

Williams, Nelson
Posey, A. Wright, Stevenson
Hill, Turkoglu
Howard, Bass, Blatche
L. Wright, Battie

IL: Christie, Garrity, Kasun

The Magic seem to want to keep Nelson coming off the bench, and a guy like Williams allows the Magic to do that while also opening up more PT for Nelson. Also, I added Cato and Wright into the deal because although both are expiring Wright is better, so I felt this made the trade more even. Thoughts?


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## hobojoe

Captain Obvious said:


> Memphis may be looking to shake things up. How about this deal?
> 
> Jason Williams, James Posey, Lorenzen Wright, #19 for Steve Francis, Kelvin Cato, and #44
> 
> Draft Antoine Wright, Andray Blatche, and Brandon Bass
> 
> Williams, Nelson
> Posey, A. Wright, Stevenson
> Hill, Turkoglu
> Howard, Bass, Blatche
> L. Wright, Battie
> 
> IL: Christie, Garrity, Kasun
> 
> The Magic seem to want to keep Nelson coming off the bench, and a guy like Williams allows the Magic to do that while also opening up more PT for Nelson. Also, I added Cato and Wright into the deal because although both are expiring Wright is better, so I felt this made the trade more even. Thoughts?


I'd do the trade, but I don't like your draft picks. Wright probably won't be available at 11 anyway and I wouldn't touch Blatche if I were the Magic.


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