# Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

http://www.nba.com/preview2004/gmsurvey_position.html

.... but only because T-Mac was considered a SF!! Oh the debate will never end....


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yao Mania</b>!
> http://www.nba.com/preview2004/gmsurvey_position.html
> 
> .... but only because T-Mac was considered a SF!! Oh the debate will never end....


Is it me or does this seem skewed


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

That was so done on purpose.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Which idiot voted for Tony Parker as the best PG in the league? Have some god damn sense people.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> Which idiot voted for Tony Parker as the best PG in the league? Have some god damn sense people.


Exactly. This has nothing to do with the Kobe thing. Its stuff like that. Tony Freaking Parker


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## dominikan_balla1 (Aug 4, 2004)

i think kg is a better power forward


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Duncan on both PF and C spot? Only getting 4.whatever percent at the 5? If he is getting votes for both PF and C, why no TMac at the 2? This is yet another poll to ride Kobes jock. What a joke of a poll.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually if you are going to be T-Mac at the 3, why would you put KG at the 3/4, Duncan at the 4/5? 

That doesn't make sense. Isn't this by position?


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Tim Duncan is obviously a center (and the best one in the league).


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Duncan is not a better center than shaq... shaq is the reason Duncan doesnt play center.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yao Mania</b>!
> http://www.nba.com/preview2004/gmsurvey_position.html
> 
> *.... but only because T-Mac was considered a SF!! Oh the debate will never end....*


GM's voted Kobe 1st team all nba last year, while Tracy was second team so it would not have mattered if Tmac was listed as a SG.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> GM's voted Kobe 1st team all nba last year, while Tracy was second team so it would not have mattered if Tmac was listed as a SG.


Tracey was 3rd team, not 2nd team.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Tim Duncan is obviously a center (and the best one in the league).


Are you also glad to see your opinion is not in the majority? 4%????????


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Tim Duncan is obviously a center (and the best one in the league).


I agree he is also a Center. However, I also agree that he will prolong his career, by not playing Center for the majority of the time as well. Since the Centers in this league tend to be big fouling oafs for the most part, save the really good ones.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Tracey was 3rd team, not 2nd team.


WORD?

Either way, he's still not as good as Kobe according to NBA GM's.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> GM's voted Kobe 1st team all nba last year, while Tracy was second team so it would not have mattered if Tmac was listed as a SG.


All NBA teams only reflect the players' performance from the season, not the talent of the players. Voting from last yr's all NBA team doesn't reflect anything for this poll.

But then again, this was a very crappy poll to begin with. I just brought it up so everyone can let out their anger on this stupid poll


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Yao Mania</b>!
> 
> 
> All NBA teams only reflect the players' performance from the season, not the talent of the players. Voting from last yr's all NBA team doesn't reflect anything for this poll.
> ...


This quote from cashbidniz is the funniest thing yet. HAHAHA.



> Originally posted by <b>cashbidniz</b>!
> All the good chinese ball-handlers work in massage parlors.


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## dominikan_balla1 (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Tracey was 3rd team, not 2nd team.


seriusly?!...that might have to do with the magic record last year


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Tracey was 3rd team, not 2nd team.


No he was 2nd team.

http://www.nba.com/news/allnba_040425.html


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>dominikan_balla1</b>!
> seriusly?!...that might have to do with the magic record last year


Well of course it did, but I don't know how they could have justified him being on the 2nd team over Cassell or Redd. I mean before the year, no one would say that Milwaukee and Orlando were similar teams and yet Milwaukee vastly outperformed Orlando and had better chemistry. Redd was the perfect teammate last year.

T-Mac consistently called guys out and even went home during a game last year. I was personally shocked he made any All-NBA team last year.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> 
> No he was 2nd team.
> ...


I could have sworn he was third team. Whoops, my bust.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Whats good HKF I see you working here. 

Only thing wrong with this poll is Tmac making it over KG thats a crime. KG should have been a lock. Tmac on hard times showed really bad character. He complained , he bailed on the end of last season with the back thing, he talked about the sniper kid he showed a lack of leadership .

He slacked off defensively and didnt play hard every night.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Whats good HKF I see you working here.
> 
> Only thing wrong with this poll is Tmac making it over KG thats a crime. KG should have been a lock. Tmac on hard times showed really bad character. He complained , he bailed on the end of last season with the back thing, he talked about the sniper kid he showed a lack of leadership .
> ...


And Kobe showed great character in the NBA Finals, didn't he? The team work and unselfishness he showed was incredible. And Carmelo showed great character quitting on his team. And Garnett showed great character by comparing basketball to war. I guess no one in the NBA has good character.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> I mean before the year, no one would say that Milwaukee and Orlando were similar teams and yet Milwaukee vastly outperformed Orlando and had better chemistry. Redd was the perfect teammate last year.


No one thought the Timberwolves were the equal of the Lakers before the season, and the Timberwolves had a superior record and had far better chemistry. Therefore, you can't justify Kobe Bryant over Sam Cassell as first team guard.  

Until someone proves McGrady was the Orlando GM, his team's record is not his fault. He played as well as any player in the league. His team was *much* worse when he was hurt. Having one of the worst supporting casts in history is not his fault. If coaches pushed McGrady to second team due to team record, all it shows is that they're good at coaching but weak at logic.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> And Kobe showed great character in the NBA Finals, didn't he? The team work and unselfishness he showed was incredible. And Carmelo showed great character quitting on his team. And Garnett showed great character by comparing basketball to war. I guess no one in the NBA has good character.


None of that sounds nearly as bad as threathening to retire on your teammates during the season because of frustration....


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> No one thought the Timberwolves were the equal of the Lakers before the season, and the Timberwolves had a superior record and had far better chemistry. Therefore, you can't justify Kobe Bryant over Sam Cassell as first team guard.
> ...


I don't know why you're rolling your eyes. Simple facts are his attitude did not help his cause and his attitude did help destroy the chemistry of the team. I'm not blaming him for the team failure, but he seemed very quick to cast blame on everyone else but himself. Now I guess because he constantly put up numbers, then he shouldn't get blame, but I thought it was the captain who goes down with the ship.

Case in point, if the Lakers don't make the playoffs, guess what, Kobe is blamed and should be. Shaq misses 20 games and the Heat miss the playoffs, then he should be blamed it. Melo and Martin don't get along, start feuding, then they should be blamed. 

I mean these guys are paid like megastars, but don't want to act like it. As I said before, earlier in the summer, the excuses stop here. He either gets it right or he'll never get it.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> None of that sounds nearly as bad as threathening to retire on your teammates during the season because of frustration....


Threatening, eh?

He said he THOUGHT abt it, and later admitted during the same interview that it was nothing but frustation on his part. He never said "If this F'N zone defense bothers me anymore, I'm gonna retire"


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Case in point, if the Lakers don't make the playoffs, guess what, Kobe is blamed and should be. Shaq misses 20 games and the Heat miss the playoffs, then he should be blamed it. Melo and Martin don't get along, start feuding, then they should be blamed.


Everything you said is true, it's just somewhat peculiar that Shaq after missing x amount of games last year and LA losing in the finals didn't get any of the blame for the Lakers losing, instead Kobe took the blame.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SPMJ</b>!
> 
> 
> Threatening, eh?
> ...


You're missing the point, DAWG! When you're the captain of a team and you get so frustrated that you publically consider retiring at the age of 24...... that is a problem. :yes:


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> Are you also glad to see your opinion is not in the majority? 4%????????


I really don't care if my opinion is in the majority. I was in the minority when I said the Pistons would beat the Lakers, and we all know how that turned out.

29 out of 30 NBA GM's know a lot more about basketball than anyone on this board (the guy in Cleveland is the only one about whom I won't make that claim).

If not one basketball expert agrees with you, that should give you second thoughts, but if an NBA general manager shares your opinion, that at least shows it's a respectable opinion. I was starting to wonder, because every other time I said Tim Duncan is the best center in the NBA, everyone jumped all over me.


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## Ravnos (Aug 10, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> You're missing the point, DAWG! When you're the captain of a team and you get so frustrated that you publically consider retiring at the age of 24...... that is a problem. :yes:


He never considered retiring. Do you really believe he was serious? If you do, I think it reflects something about you more than it does about McGrady.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

Well here are the MVP votes the last 2 years:

2004:

Kobe 212
T-Mac 0

2003:

Kobe 496
T-Mac 427


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

It's just like 92-93, Shaq/Kobe make the First Team but the runner up can drop 62 on ya in that very year. Forget the circumstances, that's a yitload of points. Two 31 point games!

03-04 Rockets
PG - Francis (etc.)
SG - Mobley (etc.)
SF - Jackson (etc.)

so GM's 04-05 magic
PG - Lue (etc.)
SG - ?
SF - T-Mac, JJ is a SF

I guess they have to find a SG.  

It's not surprising even if T-Mac "really" was a SG (weird, huh). The NBA has to keep the Lakers in the spotlight and now Kobe's the man. He even looks like he'll have an "MJ" season, though the Finals were ugly.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker Freak</b>!
> Well here are the MVP votes the last 2 years:
> 
> 2004:
> ...


Well that settles it! Jermaine O'Neal is a better player than both of them then, right?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Well that settles it! Jermaine O'Neal is a better player than both of them then, right?


:laugh:


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Well that settles it! Jermaine O'Neal is a better player than both of them then, right?


O'Neal just had a fluke season as did Stojakovic. In 2003 those guys got 0 votes for MVP.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker Freak</b>!
> Well here are the MVP votes the last 2 years:
> 
> 2004:
> ...


What a surprise, a guy on a 21 win team got no MVP votes. What an epiphony.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> What a surprise, a guy on a 21 win team got no MVP votes. What an *epiphony. *


Epiph*a*ny... I'm just messing JNice.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Epiph*a*ny... I'm just messing JNice.


Thanks Mr. Diktionary.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Laker Freak</b>!
> 
> 
> O'Neal just had a fluke season as did Stojakovic. In 2003 those guys got 0 votes for MVP.


Explain how O'Neals season was a fluke? Last year wasnt even his best season. You sound like someone who just spouts off BS to try to sound like they know what they're talking about.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Q: *Which team made the best offseason moves overall? *
A: Miami Heat 38.1% 
Utah Jazz 33.3% 
Orlando Magic 14.3% 
Others receiving votes: Denver Nuggets, Phoenix Suns, San Antonio Spurs 

Do these GM's really think the Rockets were on the verge of being a championship team with Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley? In terms of being a title competitor, this team took a bigger leap than the Jazz, Magic and the Suns and not a single vote? Bah...


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## GPS (Mar 28, 2003)

> O'Neal just had a fluke season as did Stojakovic. In 2003 those guys got 0 votes for MVP.


Totally agree. O'Neal actually had a worst season than the year before, yet he got more votes  . NBA GMs are smoking crack.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> Q: *Which team made the best offseason moves overall? *
> A: Miami Heat 38.1%
> Utah Jazz 33.3%
> ...


I agree. Personally, I don't the Heat had that great of an offseason at all. I think they only improved minimally in the short run, and greatly hurt themselves for the future. I'd say Utah, Orlando, Denver, Phoenix and Houston all had better offseasons for sure.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GPS</b>!
> 
> 
> Totally agree. O'Neal actually had a worst season than the year before, yet he got more votes  . NBA GMs are smoking crack.


No, NBA GM's just realise that winning should be the most important stat looked at when voting for MVP. Many think the best player on the team with the best record should win MVP.
If O'Neal did no get third in MVP voting last year, then something would be wrong.

Big men are more important than swing men, any day of the weak.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know why you're rolling your eyes. Simple facts are his attitude did not help his cause and his attitude did help destroy the chemistry of the team.


Those aren't facts. Those are your opinion. (Unless, by "cause," you mean his public relations.) Considering the team lost right from Game 2 of the season, I'd say it had nothing to do with chemistry and everything to do with lack of team talent.

The rolling eyes may have been a bit much, sorry. But I think you're selectively applying these standards. By team success, Cassell merited All-NBA first team over Kobe. Cassell was a second banana, so was Kobe. Kobe's better than Cassell? So is McGrady far better than Redd, but you were arguing Redd's case over McGrady.



> I'm not blaming him for the team failure, but he seemed very quick to cast blame on everyone else but himself. Now I guess because he constantly put up numbers, then he shouldn't get blame, but I thought it was the captain who goes down with the ship.


I thought you *were* blaming McGrady. In any case, a young, proud guy isn't going to be happy being tarred for his teammates' failures. It's not like McGrady doesn't play team ball or try to help his teammates score. He does, a lot. They're just bad. Yes, the very most enlightened thing to do would just be to suffer unwarranted criticism in silence. But these are athletes, driven to where they are by pride. Of course he's going to point out that he's done all he can, that the losing wasn't his fault.



> Case in point, if the Lakers don't make the playoffs, guess what, Kobe is blamed and should be.


If Kobe played a great season, he shouldn't be.



> I mean these guys are paid like megastars, but don't want to act like it. As I said before, earlier in the summer, the excuses stop here.


Logical reasons why a team fails are not the same as excuses. If a prime Michael Jordan were given a team of junior high players and lost every game against the other NBA teams, would Jordan be a whiner and excuse-maker to point out that his teammates were simply not up to par to win games?

McGrady earned his bucks by being a great, great player who did his best to help the team win. Earning big dollars doesn't mean you should have to stab yourself with swords to show you "don't tolerate losing" when it's your teammates who simply aren't up to snuff.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

Kobe may be a better SG, but I'll take Ray Allen over that pathetic crybaby anyday!!!!!!!:yes:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> Logical reasons why a team fails are not the same as excuses. If a prime Michael Jordan were given a team of junior high players and lost every game against the other NBA teams, would Jordan be a whiner and excuse-maker to point out that his teammates were simply not up to par to win games?


One of the reasons I like you Minstrel is your ability to tweak something ever so slightly to make the disagreement favor yourself. Tracey McGrady's cast around him, is now akin to a Junior High team? C'mon that's a stretch. If that is the case, the fact that 3 principles were traded to Houston with him as well, should note, that the situation is pretty similar to that of Orlando with the only difference being he is playing with Yao. Still have no PG, a horrible Defensive combo at PF and a below average bench. I am of the opinion that you should expect a similar year to Orlando, but they won't be that bad, because of the coaching of JVG. However, should they come out of the blocks poorly, I wouldn't be surprised to hear more griping. 



> McGrady earned his bucks by being a great, great player who did his best to help the team win. Earning big dollars doesn't mean you should have to stab yourself with swords to show you "don't tolerate losing" when it's your teammates who simply aren't up to snuff.


Now, I'm not talking about him going to extreme measures, but then again, there is no need to bash everyone in sight and never take respnsibility. He shares the blame, but since he scores, he probably feels well I did my job. When you are the face of the franchise and the highest paid player on the team, shouldn't you have some accountability? I'm not asking for this guy to be the greatest teammate in the world, but what he did on National TV during the Orlando-Dallas game was completely unprofessional. How are you going to say on National TV that the guys you're playing with are pretty much worthless? 

Behind closed doors one thing, but on National TV, it's just not cool.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Those aren't facts. Those are your opinion. (Unless, by "cause," you mean his public relations.) Considering the team lost right from Game 2 of the season, I'd say it had nothing to do with chemistry and everything to do with lack of team talent.
> ...



2 things on T-mac trying to get his teammates involved.

1) A lot of times when he passes the ball to someone, it's the time he couldnt get his shot off.

2) By obviously passing the ball to someone who is open in "North and South" baskteball ONLY doesnt always help the team win.

There are a lot more than just passing the ball to someone for a obivous assist. See guys like Andre Miller? Stephon Marbury? I mean the players you love all are the same.

I have to get to work now, so didnt have time to give it in details, but love to ALL!


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Of course Minstrel would not like this poll.

Isn't he the same guy who claimed in another thread that a similar poll done in a previous year on the GM's was not a valid argument as to why Kobe was better then Tmac because the GM's probably told their assistants to do it for them. Or was it another guy?

I am surprised the same argument isn't coming out.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>runbmg</b>!
> Kobe may be a better SG, but I'll take Ray Allen over that pathetic crybaby anyday!!!!!!!:yes:


Leading the Sonics straight to the Lottery. They need to deal Radman already.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> One of the reasons I like you Minstrel is your ability to tweak something ever so slightly to make the disagreement favor yourself. Tracey McGrady's cast around him, is now akin to a Junior High team?


Obviously it's an exaggeration. My point is that one player cannot be blamed for the failings of his supporting casts. I certainly think it was one of the worst supporting casts in history. The only games they won without McGrady were the last two games of the season against the Sixers and Bulls *both* of whom were only suiting up about half their team.

By contrast, another bad support cast (Iverson's) beat the Timberwolves without Ivy and won four or five other games without Iverson.

McGrady's supporting cast was *god-awful*. Not his fault.



> He shares the blame, but since he scores, he probably feels well I did my job.


What blame does he share? Instead of just speaking conceptually (the cpatain goes down with his ship), why don't you explain what blame a top-five player, who actually played like a top-five player, had in that losing season? He didn't just score. He also was a very good play-maker (getting 5-6 assists with that crappy bunch? Amazing), and rebounder. The only flaw is that his defense suffered due to having to carry the entire offensive load every minute he was on the floor.

He did what he could. The rest of winning comes from teammates helping out.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KennethTo</b>!
> Of course Minstrel would not like this poll.


Brush up on your reading skills, I haven't said a single word about the poll.


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Leading the Sonics straight to the Lottery. They need to deal Radman already.


Hah, I don't see that as a knock on Allen. The coach and supporting cast are simply not playoff calibre. You can sub in any other SG currently in the league for Ray and the team would still be going straight to Secaucas.

As for Radman, I agree. I thought he'd shine getting big minutes at his 'natural' SF position, but since Lewis has been out he's played like crap. Shooting about 18% from the field last time I checked. :sour:


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both good points, but McGrady also passes the ball early in the shot clock, after drawing the defense. McGrady makes his share of passes to players who aren't "obviously open" just along the perimeter, but he's not a point guard...he's not going to be Jason Kidd as a passer.



> There are a lot more than just passing the ball to someone for a obivous assist. See guys like Andre Miller? Stephon Marbury? I mean the players you love all are the same.


Since when do I love Andre Miller? And yes, passing is more than delivering the obvious assist to someone who's open right at the hoop. McGrady is very good at hitting players on the curl, or throwing in over the top or taking it to the to the hoop and wrapping it around to a teammate.

He's not the best passer in the league, obviously, but he's one of the very best non-point guard passers. Up there with Kobe Bryant and Ray Allen.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Minstrel representing in this thread, he speaks truth. As far the polls, well the way they split it up makes it hard to tell what they really think. Kobe and Shaq won their positions the easiest, but they are also the only two of the top five players that are only listed at one position. Duncan didn't get more votes at center, because most people voted him at power forward. McGrady didn't get votes at shooting guard, because the majority voted him at small forward. Garnett didn't win any position, because about an equal number of votes were given to him at two positions. 

So this poll does nothing for us really.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> Minstrel representing in this thread, he speaks truth. As far the polls, well the way they split it up makes it hard to tell what they really think. Kobe and Shaq won their positions the easiest, but they are also the <b>only two </b>of the top five players that are <b>only listed at one position</b>. Duncan didn't get more votes at center, because most people voted him at power forward. McGrady didn't get votes at shooting guard, because the majority voted him at small forward. Garnett didn't win any position, because about an equal number of votes were given to him at two positions.
> 
> <b>So this poll does nothing for us</b> really.


Good logic can win the day in any reasonable debate. I :clap: you on having good logic.


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## zero2hero00 (May 1, 2004)

T-Mac is the best SG in the league because everyone was always double teaming shaq makin kobe open and if T-Mac were with shaq i bet you he would of done better than kobe


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> None of that sounds nearly as bad as threathening to retire on your teammates during the season because of frustration....


How about not shooting at all in a game that could have very easily cost them the Pacific Division?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> How about not shooting at all in a game that could have very easily cost them the Pacific Division?


Im sure they will either not even bother to answer this, or Kobe fans will come up with some bs reason as to why it was ok for Kobe to do this.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Oh, Kobe and TMac fans, do you not see how similar you are? Both with love burried deep, deep down in your pants for a player of unquestionable talent.

One day I plan to bring the Kobes and TMacs of the world together. We will play on the beach, making castles in the sand. Running towards the crashing waves with each other, laughing while shadding our eyes from the sun.
It will be a glorious day where for once, these two players will be considered equal, and their fans shall bask in the glory of new friends made.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Oh, Kobe and TMac fans, do you not see how similar you are? Both with love burried deep, deep down in your pants for a player of unquestionable talent.
> 
> One day I plan to bring the Kobes and TMacs of the world together. We will play on the beach, making castles in the sand. Running towards the crashing waves with each other, laughing while shadding our eyes from the sun.
> It will be a glorious day where for once, these two players will be considered equal, and their fans shall bask in the glory of new friends made.


You don't like either guy so you're not invited.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> You don't like either guy so you're not invited.


No one should be alienated from the splendors that is the beach just because of their beliefs.


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## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

the most ridiculous poll i've ever seen.i am not talking about kobe being best SG.U see,TMAC is a SF;KG in both SF(but below TMAC?) and PF,Duncan in both PF and C(but only get so few votes),and no Yao Ming in C.WTF.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kisstherim</b>!
> and no Yao Ming in C.WTF.


He just didn't get any votes. If Duncan hadn't been considered a center by some, Shaq would have had 100% of the votes (and rightfully so).

I like Duncan more than Garnett too, but I still think it's odd that KG comes off of a monstrous, clear-cut MVP season but Duncan still gets 2/3 of the PF votes.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe unaminously voted best SG in league by NBA GMs*



> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Both good points, but McGrady also passes the ball early in the shot clock, after drawing the defense. McGrady makes his share of passes to players who aren't "obviously open" just along the perimeter, but he's not a point guard...he's not going to be Jason Kidd as a passer.
> ...



1) passing the ball to someone in early shot clock because he attacked in the early offense. But the team will either win with him or lose with him. 

2) What's a good passer mean to you? To me, a pass that create scoring opporunity for the team but no pressure you put on the finishers to score.

Example?
Jason Kidd fastbreaking first assist/second assist, the finish doesnt have much pressure to make layups or dunks.

Allen Iverson's misses, the Mutumbo/ The T. Hill making putbacks left adn right, no pressure.

Tracy McGrady? Lebron James?Stephon Marbury?
yeah, forcing outside shooters to make open shots?? Yeah, if you ask your role players to make those once in a while, but if that's your only way to get your assist, your team will suffer for sure!

Vince Carter in 00-01, Lenny Wilkens made him to be a catch and shoot shooter, that's more behind the scene. Carter enable The Williams to do his medicore on the ball mid-range game. Carter enable Chris Childs to do his mediocre halfcourt playmaking role.

If Carter was asked to dominant the ball, because of his superior athleticism, the Childs/the Peterson/the Alvin Williams/The A.Davis will get open shots all day long, but they will miss tons of them then the unknowledgable fans like some would just blame the losses on everyone except Vince Carter because Carter was doing his playmaking.. But your objectivity is to win a ball game, not to shift blames to your teammates.

Carter was truly verstaile to me, I mean the coaching staff could just use him in so many different ways when he was healthy.

1) Catch and shoot like Peja(Carter does have 4 point range)
2) On the ball get to the hoop like Kobe.
3) Post up move like Kobe

Yeah, people can say his weakness is his weaker ball handling ability, but someone else will handle the ball for you if you want the swingman to be your first option ona chmpionship team...


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## MACKAVELI (Oct 26, 2004)

:laugh: OMG. NBA.com must be Kobe fans or somthing cause this is a shame.This is just Kobe jockriding at the fullest. Kobe is not even the best Guard in the West, let alone the whole NBA. 


Iverson
Allen
McGrady
James
Finley
Pierce
Carter
Redd
Anderson
Maggette
Houstan




:laugh: I'll take all these guard anyday over that mongoose lookin, jordan wannabe ballhog. Trust that. :yes:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MACKAVELI</b>!
> :laugh: OMG. NBA.com must be Kobe fans or somthing cause this is a shame.This is just Kobe jockriding at the fullest. Kobe is not even the best Guard in the West, let alone the whole NBA.
> 
> 
> ...


Your silly.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Oh, Kobe and TMac fans, do you not see how similar you are? Both with love burried deep, deep down in your pants for a player of unquestionable talent.
> 
> One day I plan to bring the Kobes and TMacs of the world together. We will play on the beach, making castles in the sand. Running towards the crashing waves with each other, laughing while shadding our eyes from the sun.
> It will be a glorious day where for once, these two players will be considered equal, and their fans shall bask in the glory of new friends made.


That's the most beautiful thing I've ever read,
I would like to take you to my bed.
Then come Halloween we can eat pumpkin pie,
because what you've said right here brings a tear to my eye.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MACKAVELI</b>!
> :laugh: OMG. NBA.com must be Kobe fans or somthing cause this is a shame.This is just Kobe jockriding at the fullest. Kobe is not even the best Guard in the West, let alone the whole NBA.
> 
> 
> ...


You'd take Maggette, Redd, Finley, I'm guessing the last two are Allen Houston (not Houstan) and Derek Anderson over Kobe. No one can be this stupid. It's just impossible.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ravnos</b>!
> 
> 
> He never considered retiring. Do you really believe he was serious? If you do, I think it reflects something about you more than it does about McGrady.


You can make all the excuses you want but, he said those things. How do you think that 'reflects' on his teammates, on his coach, or on his general manager? This is exactly what he said:

_I've had some crazy thoughts, man," McGrady told the Orlando Sentinel. "I was thinking that after this year, I'm done with basketball. Done with basketball, period. That's how frustrated I've been."_

Now how that is somehow a reflection of me, I have no clue. But it surely is a reflection of how Tracy McGrady was feeling at that time.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> How about not shooting at all in a game that could have very easily cost them the Pacific Division?


What game was this that Kobe didn't shoot at all the entire game? Did that really happen or are you exagerrating?

And btw, you may have forgot but Kobe did make the plays that ultimately won the Pacific Division for the Lakers, remember that?




> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Im sure they will either not even bother to answer this, or Kobe fans will come up with some bs reason as to why it was ok for Kobe to do this.


I'll give you the same BS excuse that Phil Jackson told Dan Patrick when he was asked the same question on Sportscenter. Kobe didn't force any shots, he played within the rhythm of the offense, and during that half of basketball the shots did not come his way. 

But of course he could have forced a lot of shot like he did in the finals and you guys would bash him for that instead, catch 22?


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> You'd take Maggette, Redd, Finley, I'm guessing the last two are Allen Houston (not Houstan) and Derek Anderson over Kobe. No one can be this stupid. It's just impossible.


Isn't it obvious, this guy seems familiar,
who else squawks this much Kobe-hatred like a hen?
Truly Mr. Fooey, this isn't peculiar,
it's not impossible, it's the return of Mack Ten.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> What game was this that Kobe didn't shoot at all the entire game? Did that really happen or are you exagerrating?
> ...


lol at R-star and S-Star. My friend F-Star is registering!


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Jibba-freakin'-Jabba.

By season's end, many of the excuses used by Kobe and Tmac fans in the past will now be used against themselves; a taste of their own medicine.
A couple of examples:
_"Kobe doesn't have the supporting cast"_

_"Tmac has Yao"_.


IV, I believe he's talking about the Kings game where Kobe only shot 1 shot in the first half, was hardly looking to score, and said the Kings defense wasn't allowing him too.
The only people that believed him were *hardcore* Laker fans, and Kobe apologists.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sweet_constipation</b>!
> IV, I believe he's talking about the Kings game where Kobe only shot 1 shot in the first half, was hardly looking to score, and said the Kings defense wasn't allowing him too.
> The only people that believed him were *hardcore* Laker fans, and Kobe apologists.


I know, and it happened the following week against Houston. And it's cool, I know only lakers fans and kobe apologist believe him, but it's the truth. He did what he was supposed to.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> I know, and it happened the following week against Houston. And it's cool, I know only lakers fans and kobe apologist believe him, but it's the truth. He did what he was supposed to.



:laugh: :laugh:


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> lol at R-star and S-Star. My friend F-Star is registering!


:rofl:


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