# Best Americans in European Leagues



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

On the suggestion of someone in the best Europeans (including countries) thread, why not a thread of the best European league players from America?

Go for it!


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## ez8o5 (Aug 22, 2002)

james white
kenny gregory


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Trajan Langdon of Duke, then Cleveland Cavaliers, has been a pretty fantastic European leagues player since 2002 or so when he signed. Benneton Treviso, Efes Pilsen and then his great successes with CSKA, he has really found a home for himself with Euroleague teams. Honestly, I believe he'd be relatively successful within a role in the NBA now, but unfortunately for him earlier in this decade, teams weren't so willing to gamble on nonconventional players as they seem to be more recently.


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## Vilius (Nov 13, 2006)

Are we talking about players that play now or played in recent years or about all time best American players in Europe?

If we talk about all time then Bob McAdoo, Dominique Wilkins, Byron Scott, Walter Szerbiak should be mentioned.

If we talk about last decade or so then: Anthony Parker, Marcus Brown, Tyus Edney (although he had only one fantastic season but he made a name dor himself then), Trajan Langdon, Alphonso Ford, Micheal Batiste, Willie Solomon, Jeremiah Massey, Marcus Haislip, Maceo Baston.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

J.R. Holden of CSKA Moscow is another example. He has turned himself into a great player while in Europe. (Of course, he's officially a Russian now, too, so can we count him?!) 

Arriel McDonald, the American (U. of Minnesota) point guard who played for years with various teams including Union Olimpia, Maccabi Tel Aviv and Panathinaikos. McDonald also became a Slovenian citizen and played for their national team in 2001, joining a great starting lineup of McDonald, Sani Becirovic, Marko Milic, Matjaz Smodis and Rasho Nesterovic (with Beno Udrih and Jaka Lakovic off the bench).


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I dislike this whole changing citizenship thing. 

But good call on J.R Holden.. Theres a huge host of fantastic American talent in Europe thats for sure - Kareem Rush was deadly for Vilnius (is that where he played when they made it to the euroleague championship series 'cos I really am struggling to remember??)


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

ez8o5 said:


> james white
> kenny gregory


I remember watching a DVD way back called Ball Above All and a section focused on Mr White and his dunking abilities, I can't remember any other basketball DVD being watched as much in my life, the kid was truly awe inspiring. He worked hard on his game to, shame things didn't work out for him at San An.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

As for the dual-citizenship thing, I agree that it is problematic. And I think there are degrees. I mean, if someone is born to parents who hold multiple citizenships, or grows up in multiple countries, to me that's one thing. But when Olajuwon played for Team USA in 1996, or the guys I mentioned in this thread played for Slovenia and Russia, well ... at some point, it becomes silly. 

Mexico has been courting Earl Watson. The U.K. has come to an agreement with Ben Gordon. It's silly.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Hey, the UK can do no wrong but your totally right about those cheeky Mexicans :biggrin:


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## Vilius (Nov 13, 2006)

Porn_Player said:


> I dislike this whole changing citizenship thing.
> 
> But good call on J.R Holden.. Theres a huge host of fantastic American talent in Europe thats for sure - *Kareem Rush was deadly for Vilnius (is that where he played when they made it to the euroleague championship series 'cos I really am struggling to remember??)*


Lietuvos Rytas played in ULEB Cup that season (2nd strongest competition in Europe) and they reached the final but lost against Real Madrid. Despite the loss they still qualified for the Euroleague and played there this season.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Vilius said:


> Lietuvos Rytas played in ULEB Cup that season (2nd strongest competition in Europe) and they reached the final but lost against Real Madrid. Despite the loss they still qualified for the Euroleague and played there this season.


:afro: hehe I knew I had the wrong team and the wrong competition 'cos all I remember from watching was the team colours (Rytas were blue and red right?) ... Thanks for the heads up


By the way that afro smiley is the coolest.


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## Vilius (Nov 13, 2006)

Porn_Player said:


> :afro: hehe I knew I had the wrong team and the wrong competition 'cos all I remember from watching was the team colours (Rytas were blue and red right?) ... Thanks for the heads up
> 
> 
> By the way that afro smiley is the coolest.


You actually got the right team. Vilnius is the city where Lietuvos Rytas is located


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

You know I _have_ to mention Marcus Fizer. He'd been huge for Maccabi Tel Aviv before he got hurt.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Terrence Morris?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Vilius said:


> You actually got the right team. Vilnius is the city where Lietuvos Rytas is located


Woo, so it was free usage of the afro smiley haha. 


Do you feel Americans find it a little to easy to shine in Europe? They seem to dominate most games and always leave me wondering why the hell they aint playing in the L.


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## Vilius (Nov 13, 2006)

Porn_Player said:


> Do you feel Americans find it a little to easy to shine in Europe? They seem to dominate most games and always leave me wondering why the hell they aint playing in the L.


Americans are often individually stronger. They also play differently. I mean they adjust to the European style but they have been playing American style for a long time and grew up with it. But it's not a rule. There are more players who fail to fit in a team than those that actually become important players. For example Alex Acker (Barcelona), Tony Delk, Kenny Anderson and Rod Strickland were both experienced NBA veterans but were actually very disappointing in Europe. The list would be huge. The coach's philosohpy is also important. Some coaches need players strong on both ends, some need a scorer etc. For example Maccabi was always an offensive team and they always have 5 or so American players.


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

^ A very good point about strategy. The team's coach plays a huge role in determining who'll fit in well. On the other hand, looking at older guys (Strickland) and one-dimensional players (Delk), you could argue that Americans need to have flexible games in order to thrive in Europe - moreso than in the US even.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Historically, it has been safe to say that European competition was weaker. As it improves, the odds of Americans immediately being expected to dominate have seemingly gone down. More and more, it seems that the Americans are just a guy on the team--often a good one, yes, but not necessarily the stars. You see a guy like Kennedy Winston, who is a very good shooter, a good athlete and was pretty highly regarded as a college player. I think he left college too early to make an impact as an NBA player, and that panned out to be the case at least so far, but even so, you'd think he'd step in and be a very good Euroleague/european league player, right?

And yet there he is at Panathinaikos, yes, a starter, but not as productive as guards like Spanoulis, Jasikevicius, Diamantidis or Becirovic and basically sharing time with guys like Dikoudis. He's a good player (13 starts in 19 games, 5 ppg, 2+ rpg, 50%), but by no means a standout. It's a talented, balanced team and he's just one of those good players.

There seem to be an increasing number of similar examples. There is so much talent coming from everywhere, things are leveling off to the point that you can't assume Americans are stars; or Americans and (former) Yugoslavians are stars; and so on. There are close to a dozen very solid countries for producing talent, and less solid ones still have the occasional standouts.

It's really exciting, I think.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

starting a game means nothing in europe... as a matter of fact most coaches by now got used of the fact that starting the game is actually important to some US players and are acting accordingly, but otherwise don't be surprised if you get to see star players (by european standards) coming off the bench, just because the coach wanted to put in a defensive specialist or two in the first 3-4 minutes.

about Winston, he has the talent he just needs some time... considering he played in one of the top european clubs in his first season here, while the differences between both basketball styles are too big to overcome in the first season, he also played under one of the most demanding coaches like Obradović (and by saying demanding I don't think he has a comparison in NBA)... with all that in mind, he actually had a good season there.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

^ I agree that Winston had a fine season, and his best ball is ahead of him. My only intention was pointing out that he's an example of a well-regarded American who won't necessarily dominate the way Americans were once expected to, that's all. Instead, they're just another group of players. Some are the best. Some aren't.


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