# PJ Brown wants out of Chicago [merged]



## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

> One day after the Tribune reported Bulls general manager John Paxson had offered P.J. Brown for Denver's Marcus Camby as part of a three-way trade involving Philadelphia's Allen Iverson, Brown took his unhappiness public.
> 
> "I don't expect to be a Bull too much longer," Brown said Friday after the Bulls' victory over Milwaukee. "I'm just hoping it can be over as soon as possible. I think it's unfair with the way the team is playing right now. They don't need a distraction."
> 
> ...


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,3827844.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

*PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,3827844.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines



> One day after the Tribune reported Bulls general manager John Paxson had offered P.J. Brown for Denver's Marcus Camby as part of a three-way trade involving Philadelphia's Allen Iverson, Brown took his unhappiness public.
> 
> "I don't expect to be a Bull too much longer," Brown said Friday after the Bulls' victory over Milwaukee. "I'm just hoping it can be over as soon as possible. I think it's unfair with the way the team is playing right now. They don't need a distraction."
> 
> ...


Way to go Pax. I'm sure PJ will get the Tim Thomas treatment the rest of the year, or at least until the trade deadline. How convenient was it for him to start complaining about "foot problems" lately. 

:sadbanana:


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

Does he really think we care if he wants out? I seriously doubt he could distract this team...

He'll get his wish though, hell Pax was obviously gonna use him before the deadline in a trade anyway


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

If we can't use him as a piece in a bigger consolidation trade for Gasol/KG/etc, and the Camby trade doesn't work out (which I doubt it will......it seems too good to be true), I'd see if we could trade him for Adonal Foyle and Ike Diogu. 

Not sure if Golden State would be willing to do it, or Jerry Reinsdorf for that matter, but it'd give us two players that we could use.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

This is puzzling. Is he insulted that his name was mentioned in trade talks, or is this about playing time? Or both? 

From what I've seen, he's simply not good enough to contribute or start anymore, except in spurts. I'm surprised that he would go public like this.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

From sixerfan1976, a Philly insider over at RealGM...

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=597322&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=7416



> i am going to bed after this.....since it fell apart.....this was it roughly.....still could be revisited in some way
> 
> philly trades iverson,hunter,mcfarlin
> philly gets joe smith,pj brown,chris duhon,2 #1s
> ...


Bulls didn't want to give up Duhon, instead they wanted Boykins going to Philly. I think that's what killed the deal. So according to this guy, Pax wanted to trade PJ straight up for Evans, Najera, & Philly's 2nd rounder. 

We would win a trade like that talent-wise, but I'm not sure it would help us in a quest for Gasol or KG. Evans & Najera are two more undersized PF's, but man those guys are tough. Imagine Nocioni & Najera on the same team. Those guys flop like crazy. Evans is of course famous for his 'ball-grabbing' incident a year ago.


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## the-asdf-man (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

I'm kinda sad. I liked the guy and felt he was a good leader.

Don't really see who i want to get with him though other than Camby. Gasol or KG would take some of our core guys and I don't want to part with them. Maybe Gasol for PJ and a coupel firsts.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*



SALO said:


> From sixerfan1976, a Philly insider over at RealGM...
> 
> http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=597322&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=7416
> 
> ...


Don't see how that deal helps us

another undersized, non-scoring PF..

another sf with energy and not much else

an very SMALL pg..

we don't need any of that..glad that deal fell through

what's wrong with ya pax?

i don't remmeber evans grabbing "balls", but i do remember FRANCISO ELSON doing it


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

Haha, SALO, I just posted that in the AI trade.

I dunno how that trade even came close to being done. Did the Nuggets and Sixers hope John Paxson was replaced by Mullin, Isiah, or Billy King himself?


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

Evans did it to Chris Kaman last season. Funniest thing I'd seen in a long time. Kaman shoved him to the ground afterwards. I'm sure you can find it on youtube.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

I don't see us taking back anything from either teams. Camby isn't on the trading block. What we want, they are not giving up.


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## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

I didn't know what to expect out of brown. I thought he'd at least bring in some offense, but man his jumper is hard to watch. I think since he does want out, that it's a good idea to trade him.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

The question is, what is his true trading value? It is likey the Sixers will make a deal with Denver, as they are offering two draft picks and an expiring contract. They are looking for a young player, and this is where we come in. Apparently Duhon is enough to make the deal work. But, we would need considerable return too. What we are looking for, neither Denver and Philly have. A quality inside player, and a possible backup PG. If we are giving away Duhon, maybe we can get Charlotte to come in, and try to get Brevin Knight. But Charlotte is a team that would want a 1st round pick themselves. So that goes out the window.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Eat a dick, PJ.

I played around with the salaries today and tried to figure out a deal that could get the Bulls in on the 3-way _without _giving up Brown. Why? Because he's our shot at getting Garnett or Gasol or another big name guy down the road.

I'm a Reggie Evans fan. I advocated making an offer for him this summer. But to blow our chance at this point just to get him, that'd be foolish and short-sighted.

That being said, I did figure out this deal:
Bulls send Sweetney and Allen
Bulls get Evans, Jamal Sampson

Sixers send AI
Sixers get Joe Smith, Sweetney, Allen, Boykins, picks

Nuggets get AI
Nuggets send Smith, Boykins, Evans, Sampson, picks

-----------------------
That works under the trade rules, I think.

But again, I don't see the logic for the Bulls to do this. I moderately like Evans, but he's not anything I'd give up even a remote shot at some better players for. And while I think he's slightly better than Sweetney and Allen, we give up 2 bigs for 1 when we're already thin in terms of size. 

So no deal. Unless someone gives us a real inducement to do a deal (a pick, Iggy?) I don't see any reason to get in on any of this action.

Certainly not to satisfy an over the hill assclown like PJ when he's our ticket to something better. 

And the idea of trading Duhon as part of this deal. Uh... no way.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*



The ROY said:


> Don't see how that deal helps us
> 
> another undersized, non-scoring PF..
> 
> ...


hopefully that's why this trade is not going through.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Heh. Anyone still want to argue that even without considering salaries, PJ would help the Bull more in one season the Tyson could in the next five seasons _combined_?

I never like reading that a guy known around the league as a classy player wants to be traded or that a player is struggling to adjust to a city as great as Chicago. That said, my immediate reaction was excitement that Tyrus might start to play more minutes. For that reason, I find the possibility of trading for Evans and Najera completely confounding. Part of the reason PJ is asking for a trade is that Pax's plan to add depth is backfiring because there simply aren't enough minutes to go around.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

The worst thing that can happen here is trading his contract for Troy Murphy....


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Are the blazers still trying to get rid of Zach Randolph?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Wow. I'm not sure what to say. That's three players who have gone public wanting more playing time or to be traded already this season. You hear enough of these things and you begin to question Skiles' coaching. If this was about starting then **** him -- he isn't good enough anymore to warrant not coming off the bench. Depth sure can be noose.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

I didn't expect this coming from PJ Brown. But I guess he isn't quite the great team mate and leader the media made him out to be.


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## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

such sweet thunder said:


> Wow. I'm not sure what to say. That's three players who have gone public wanting more playing time or to be traded already this season. You hear enough of these things and you begin to question Skiles' coaching. If this was about starting then **** him -- he isn't good enough anymore to warrant not coming off the bench. Depth sure can be noose.


Who was the third?

I only remember Brown and Khryapa.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

bullsger said:


> Who was the third?
> 
> I only remember Brown and Khryapa.


Chandler came out and said he didn't get along with Skiles. Gordon wasn't happy about being taken out of the starting lineup and didn't hide his frustration when asked about it. Wallace breaking the no headband rule was in response to the previous game where he was benched early and thus failed to get a rebound for the first time in years. He was really bad during that game and Skiles only played him like 18 minutes.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

such sweet thunder said:


> Wow. I'm not sure what to say. That's three players who have gone public wanting more playing time or to be traded already this season. You hear enough of these things and you begin to question Skiles' coaching. If this was about starting then **** him -- he isn't good enough anymore to warrant not coming off the bench. Depth sure can be noose.


I think in some ways it's a testament to Skiles coaching. He's not altering his rotations just to accomodate the players, he's playing to win.

Players - veterans in particular - have expectations for how much playing time they will receive. PJ has to understand he's not a young man anymore and will not be able to play 25 MPG in this league until he's 45. At the same time I'm not the slightest bit surprised that he's upset after going from starting to playing spot minutes.

Everyone, myself included, was a bit naive to think this arrangment where we have 13 players on the roster deserving of minutes would work out well. The only way to keep everyone happy is to play the starters no more than 27 or 28 MPG. I like Victor a lot but he has no business taking minutes from Noc and Lu right now.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

I don't get it. P.J was always going to get traded, unless the Chandler trade was just about dumping salary long term, which I don't think it was.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*



SALO said:


> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,3827844.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since when on-the-last-leg 37 years old player with expiring contract can't be shopped around?

PJ is in denial or unwarrantied foul mood.

From the moment we land him, we knew and he should knew that his only asset to the team (any team for that matter) is his expiring contract.

Now IF there is a chance to get an actual talent like Camby for PJ, we aren't allowed to shop him around?

Get real, PJ. You know how NBA works! And get real, Bulls fans who criticizing Paxon for tying to make Bulls better!!


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

All I have to say is, don't let the door knock you on the way out PJ.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

He's probably upset because he thought he would be MORE to the team than just an expiring contract. I remember him saying that before he got here, he thought Paxson wanted him for more than that.

Pax only wanted him to make Tyrus's transition easier and for salary purposes.

but whatever, CLEAR OUT HIS LOCKER and take him off the PRE GAME HIGHLIGHTS!!!!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

YES!!!!

I say we ship PJ Brown, Viktra Crap, and a ticket for Greg Oden over for Pau Gasol.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

MikeDC said:


> Eat a dick, PJ.


I'm not exagerating when I say that these are the exact 4 words that popped into my head when I read this. 

First of all, I think he has been a disappointment as a player. I don't think he's been as bad as a lot of you do, but he certainly has played below my expectation when I wrongly prognosticated that he'd help more in the short term than Tyson. 

Second, he's 37 years old, playing for a contender, and getting 17 minutes a game - about what he deserves given the quality of his play. For lack of a better worded question, where does he get off?

Third, he's the second of our 3 veteran team captains to take something public like a whiny little douchebag. That, more than anything, has absolutely shocked and disappointed me this season. 

Fourth, he's proven himself a hypocrite which probably drives me crazier than any other character flaw. The evidence:



> "I don't expect to be a Bull too much longer," Brown said Friday after the Bulls' victory over Milwaukee. "I'm just hoping it can be over as soon as possible. I think it's unfair with the way the team is playing right now. They don't need a distraction."
> 
> "Something like this can hang around the team and linger around," Brown said. "So hopefully it will be done and over with as soon as possible."


If you are so concerned with the team and how your trade demand is unfair to them and you don't want it to hang around and become a distraction, then I have a suggestion for you: Shut the **** up about it. 

"Gee, I'd just hate it if the public trade demand I'm talking to the media about right now with these very words that are coming out of my mouth became a distraction to the team. How unfair that would be." 

Piss off. This is very disappointing. 

However, there may be an upside. I actually have always believed - and agreed with K4E and others - that Tyson was in fact a salary dump and that it was only a hoped for possibility that the Bulls would actually use PJ's contract in trade for a longer term deal. This changes that. They pretty much have to trade him now. And if they give him the TT treatment in the meantime, I won't lose any sleep over it. 

Evidently I was very, very wrong about PJ in just about every way imaginable. (This is not to say that I disapprove of players making trade demands. I don't. Its their career and they hvae every right if they aren't happy. Its the taking of it public during the season that I can't tolerate. Even AI had the class to do it behind closed doors, the info just leaked out.)


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: PJ Brown wants out of Chicago*

Good thing Pax dint trade away contributers for PJ Brown. Oh wait, Never Mind.


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

Even as someone who was strongly against trading for him, PJ has still managed to find a way to disappoint me both on the court and in making this public trade demand. He even managed to slip in what seems to me a veiled threat that if he isn't moved soon, he'll become a disruption t the team. 

The only good thing is that this situation hopefully ensures that we end up moving PJ for an actual NBA quality player.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> First of all, I think he has been a disappointment as a player. I don't think he's been as bad as a lot of you do, but he certainly has played below my expectation when I wrongly prognosticated that he'd help more in the short term than Tyson.
> 
> Second, he's 37 years old, playing for a contender, and getting 17 minutes a game - about what he deserves given the quality of his play. For lack of a better worded question, where does he get off?
> 
> ...



Fantastic post!

PJ's behavior illustrates a behavior I have always personally found intolerable... 

When an well respected older guy makes an immature self centered scene about something that is bugging him, people tend to give him a hall pass. Why? If he knows better then act the part. You are a team captain PJ, you know what that means, so wise up, your teammates and your children are watching you.

PJ, take it like a man and shut up.

FWIW I just wonder if Tyson despite his contract would give Pax a hell of alot more flexability in making a deal right now.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> First of all, I think he has been a disappointment as a player. I don't think he's been as bad as a lot of you do, but he certainly has played below my expectation when I wrongly prognosticated that he'd help more in the short term than Tyson.
> 
> Second, he's 37 years old, playing for a contender, and getting 17 minutes a game - about what he deserves given the quality of his play. For lack of a better worded question, where does he get off?
> *
> ...


Not losing any sleep over PJ Brown, but those guys are also the most experienced players on the team. I think stuff like this sheds light on how hard it is for accomplished players that we may acquire to orient with what PaxSkiles does. AD seems to be the only vet who has actually liked Chicago, but even that was due more to the fact that it was convenient for his family.

These mutinous players showing insubordination don't appear to do what they do in isolation, out of nowhere. Like Ben Wallace, and many others, he's probably just reacting to the culture of this team, presided over by PaxSkiles.

If you don't see this statement as something in isolation, place this in context of everything that's happened in the PaxSkiles regime, and/or understand how it makes sense (assuming that just like any other folk, they do have their own rationale and logic) for PJ and Ben to react the way they have, you can flip the question from them and ask, why have a lot of our past players and outsiders reacted so publicly? What got the point where they would react so adversely to the media? We probably won't get to know what they did behind closed doors before it got to the media because it's usually not anything newsworthy.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

My question is where does he want to go and who the hell is going to give him more then 15 minutes a game?! 

Its not going to be a contender thats for sure and the dude lived in Louisiana for gods sake whats wrong with Chicago?!


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Not losing any sleep over PJ Brown, but those guys are also the most experienced players on the team. I think stuff like this sheds light on how hard it is for accomplished players that we may acquire to orient with what PaxSkiles does. AD seems to be the only vet who has actually liked Chicago, but even that was due more to the fact that it was convenient for his family.
> 
> These mutinous players showing insubordination don't appear to do what they do in isolation, out of nowhere. Like Ben Wallace, and many others, he's probably just reacting to the culture of this team, presided over by PaxSkiles.
> 
> If you don't see this statement as something in isolation, place this in context of everything that's happened in the PaxSkiles regime, and/or understand how it makes sense (assuming that just like any other folk, they do have their own rationale and logic) for PJ and Ben to react the way they have, you can flip the question from them and ask, why have a lot of our past players and outsiders reacted so publicly? What got the point where they would react so adversely to the media? We probably won't get to know what they did behind closed doors before it got to the media because it's usually not anything newsworthy.


Sorry, 6th. I know you don't like Skiles. But I do. And I don't agree with this characterization that everybody other than AD that plays here doesn't like it. 

I think soft pansies don't like it. Which is a good thing, in my opinion. 

PJ appears to be complaining because he doesn't like his minutes and his family doesn't like Chicago. Do you think he should be getting more minutes? I don't. 

When you see stuff like this, you think it reflects on Skiles. When I see it, I think it reflects on the player. 

When it comes to his treatment of players, I don't have any complaints about Skiles. I like his approach.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> Sorry, 6th. I know you don't like Skiles. But I do. And I don't agree with this characterization that everybody other than AD that plays here doesn't like it.
> 
> I think soft pansies don't like it. Which is a good thing, in my opinion.
> 
> ...


No, this is a look at the entire picture, the context of everything PaxSkiles has accomplished, and not just this one event. 

Any player can be demonized as "pansy" if you are in agreement with everything Skiles does, especially if the incident can be viewed in isolation. The problem with this approach is that the "pansies" label by you are tagged on just about every other significant player hasn't been homegrown within the PaxSkiles era.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> No, this is a look at the entire picture, the context of everything PaxSkiles has accomplished, and not just this one event.
> 
> Any player can be demonized as "pansy" if you are in agreement with everything Skiles does, especially if the incident can be viewed in isolation. *The problem with this approach is that the "pansies" label by you are tagged on just about every other significant player hasn't been homegrown within the PaxSkiles era.*


What significant non-homegrown players would those be? Wallace is the only one. And he seems to have tested the prima donna waters and found them quite chilly. He's starting to have fun now despite the dictatorial yolk holding him down.

And I most certainly do not agree with everything Skiles does. Every single game he does something that I disagree with. I've laid numerous actual losses squarely at this feet giving him the total blame. I've even done that twice already in this season's infancy, which is a lot if you think about it (20% of our losses).

I just don't disagree with how he treats the players. Its an accountability system, and I approve of it. I think its the best way to coach this team and I think its working.

And for what its worth, I don't think Brown is a pansy. I was referring to the E-Robs, Tim Thomas's and Ben-Wallace-when-going-prima-donna-about-a-headband scenarios. Unlike the first two, however, it appears that Wallace is coming around with his attitude. I hope he keeps it up. 

Brown isn't a pansy. Brown just committed the sin of taking a trade demand public during the season. 

Let me put it this way. Paxson drafts tough minded, team first, intense, gym rat basketball players. They've all been remarkably professional and successful under Skiles. I don't think its a coincidence.

Might there come a day when these guys are in their prime and on long term contracts that Skiles becomes incompatible? Yes. I think that is entirely possible. But he's the man for the job right now in my opinion.

And just to reiterate my agreement with MikeDC, eat a dick PJ.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

i believe i'm in the "liking skiles" group as well; however, seems to me there's a lot of "reading between the lines going on here. if a player is asked about a particular topic or issue that directly involves him, how should he respond; "no comment" is particularly disingenous, and doesn't really do anything for the topic at hand. further, how should brown respond when asked about his name coming up in trade talks? "well, i suck, so i guess i'll just be happy to be in the league since i'm an old fart just hanging on".....ain't gon' happen, folks.

skiles and pax don't do anything (imo) with the express purpose of low-rating a player; that would be counter to being able to move him if the situation called for it.

i believe brown just responded to a question of some sort and now it's being media-spun/construed as "unhappiness". funny as well how fans run with the least morsel of "controversy". it's a *long* season, brown's been moved before, and since he's primarily a backup there's no reason for fans to believe he's suddenly become an ungrateful ingrate or that paxson and skiles are making his life miserable. i don't see it that way.

i am in favor of a camby/brown swap if that were to occur.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

BULLHITTER said:


> i believe i'm in the "liking skiles" group as well; however, seems to me there's a lot of "reading between the lines going on here. if a player is asked about a particular topic or issue that directly involves him, how should he respond; "no comment" is particularly disingenous, and doesn't really do anything for the topic at hand. further, how should brown respond when asked about his name coming up in trade talks? "well, i suck, so i guess i'll just be happy to be in the league since i'm an old fart just hanging on".....ain't gon' happen, folks.
> 
> skiles and pax don't do anything (imo) with the express purpose of low-rating a player; that would be counter to being able to move him if the situation called for it.
> 
> i believe brown just responded to a question of some sort and now it's being media-spun/construed as "unhappiness". funny as well how fans run with the least morsel of "controversy". it's a *long* season, brown's been moved before, and since he's primarily a backup there's no reason for fans to believe he's suddenly become an ungrateful ingrate or that paxson and skiles are making his life miserable. i don't see it that way.


Thats a good point and I considered that. I even re-read the article before I went off on him. But KC says:



> *Brown took his unhappiness public.*
> 
> "I don't expect to be a Bull too much longer," *Brown said Friday after the Bulls' victory over Milwaukee.* "I'm just hoping it can be over as soon as possible.


Unlike the Mariotti's and Rozner's of the world, I trust KC and don't think he spins context. This article reads to me that PJ took it public. I don't care if he was asked how he felt about trade rumors. Players get asked that question all the time and have far more diplomatic responses that they are all taught at "professional athlete talking to the media 101".

PJ took it to the press, in the locker room after a win no less. I don't find that acceptable or appropriate. Be a pro about it. Keep it in house. It lowers the distraction level he claims to be concerned with and helps to increase his value (players publicly known to be demanding a trade have lower trade value).


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> *PJ took it to the press*, in the locker room after a win no less. I don't find that acceptable or appropriate. Be a pro about it. Keep it in house. It lowers the distraction level he claims to be concerned with and helps to increase his value (players publicly known to be demanding a trade have lower trade value).


true enough, BUT, for a guy who didn't dress, what press could/would brown "seek out" and take his unhappiness to? as a 14 year vet, this just doesn't seem logical, especially in light of the point about "keeping things in house" and knowing from experience how media spins all things controversial. i'd like to think brown is a tad more media savvy than that. i think KC is a good enough beat guy, but for whatever reason, this just seems to me like johnson fishing for a "red herring".


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

BULLHITTER said:


> true enough, BUT, for a guy who didn't dress, what press could/would brown "seek out" and take his unhappiness to? as a 14 year vet, this just doesn't seem logical, especially in light of the point about "keeping things in house" and knowing from experience how media spins all things controversial. i'd like to think brown is a tad more media savvy than that. i think KC is a good enough beat guy, but for whatever reason, this just seems to me like johnson fishing for a "red herring".


I'm basing it on how KC - whom I trust - characterized it. 

And even if he was asked a question, there are tons of ways to avoid saying what PJ said. He did it on purpose. 

The bottom line is that it might end up being for the good of the team if they had originally planned on just letting him expire, which in my opinion was a real possibility.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> *What significant non-homegrown players would those be?* Wallace is the only one. And he seems
> 
> *Let me put it this way. Paxson drafts tough minded, team first, intense, gym rat basketball players. They've all been remarkably professional and successful under Skiles. I don't think its a coincidence.*
> 
> ...


What comes rushing to mind are those 3C kids. But that's just going to open up another can of worms. Lets just say for the sake of not opening it, that they had some talent and all had conflicts with PaxSkiles.

Paxson draftees wouldn't know what it's like being on other teams, so that makes them a lot more receptive to what they do. My point is that any past present player who's experienced anything other than PaxSkiles has shown to have beef with them. 

I'd attribute Benedict Wallace's current subordination to us winning games against weak competition. Winning cures a lot of ills. In the meantime, I will do my best to fight the good fight and support the beating down of any and all authority figures (starting with UCPD) and avoid all accountability any chance I get.ity:


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## 7RINGS? (Sep 28, 2004)

Great Iverson really started something now!!! Everyones going to start crying they want out of thier current situations!!! Well it looks like the Grizzlies won't win anytime soon.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Well PJ, with the way Wallace is playing and nocioni and if TT continues to come like he did last night, you better hope you will get traded. Seventeen minutes will dwindle down!

We wont miss PJ.


----------



## ExtremeBrigs (Jul 20, 2006)

*Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*

I can't tell you guys how angry I am about this whole situation. Especially after talking to PJ in November about how wonderful he felt this situation was for him. Read my article today and you can't even count all the contradictions on two hands:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_19938.shtml

Merge the thread if you have to, but I thought this would open up some new items for discussion.

Stupid P.J. ruined my Saturday. Ugh.


----------



## anorexorcist (Aug 3, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> Well PJ, with the way Wallace is playing and nocioni and if TT continues to come like he did last night, you better hope you will get traded. Seventeen minutes will dwindle down!
> 
> We wont miss PJ.


Amen. I can't believe this crap but I just hope he leaves quick.

That was an unbelievable game by Tyrus last night.


----------



## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



ExtremeBrigs said:


> I can't tell you guys how angry I am about this whole situation. Especially after talking to PJ in November about how wonderful he felt this situation was for him. Read my article today and you can't even count all the contradictions on two hands:
> 
> http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_19938.shtml
> 
> ...


Take more than PJ to get Pau. Like Deng / Noc, Tyrus, First Rounder. Not worth it my opinion.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

I for one think PJ's asking to be traded is the best possible outcome of the Chandler trade. His main value to the Bulls lies in his expiring contract, which could fetch something reasonably valuable in return 

- a vet or two whose contracts this year are within 25% of his
- a large piece in a consolidation trade 
- contract trash plus draft picks

Any of these assets are better than keeping him around after the February trading deadline, a time when he suddenly turns back into money in cheapskate Jerry's pocket as his contract expires in June.

My guess is that management was leaning toward keeping him around and keeping the expiring contract money. Now they have to shop him and get something of value in return.

So thank you very much, PJ!


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



lougehrig said:


> Take more than PJ to get Pau. Like Deng / Noc, Tyrus, First Rounder. Not worth it my opinion.


PJ, Sweets & the pick could do it. 
Memphis gets a lottery pick and two expiring contracts that put them well under the salary cap.

The new owners get to start with a nearly clean slate financially.

Anyway, that's all I would offer for their gimpy center. The Bulls have a good chance of drafting a quality center with the pick if Memphis doesn't bite, and someone else (Denver?) will give value for our expiring contracts.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



McBulls said:


> PJ, Sweets & the pick could do it.
> Memphis gets a lottery pick and two expiring contracts that put them well under the salary cap.
> 
> The new owners get to start with a nearly clean slate financially.
> ...


:lol: 

If PJ, Sweets and the pick could do it...it would have ALREADY been done


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*

I think the Bulls org really did consider PJ a valuable cog for this team this season.

They started him opening night.

He's featured on his own season ticket.

He's a team captain. (poor duhon was given the boot)

Its strange that one of the classiest players in the league would be so unhappy here under PaxSkiles.

He’s pretty meaningless on the basketball court, so losing him would not matter hardly at all.

I wonder if his name appearing in all these trade offers was concerning him? We want you to be captain of the team and mentor young Tyrus, but we also are going to shop you around fairly frequently using your expiring deal. Part of the business, no doubt, but still, disheartening for a guy that’s being asked to help pass out the PaxSkiles kool-aid.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

way to team captain there, PJ. hoping it can be over as soon as possible for you as well with that attitude. sheesh. 

and of course pax (skiles) doesn't want to get rid of _duhon_. MANLOVE!!

:cowboy:

meanwhile, i  marcus camby and would be thrilled if that could happen. does he wear a headband??


----------



## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*

I think PJ wanted out even before his name came up in these trade rumors. He just doesn't like it here. We've played some of our best ball with him glued to the bench. He knows his minutes will drop even more once Tyrus gets going.


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

For being 37 and a long-time vet in this league, PJ needs to grow up. He was complaining when he was traded here. He has to understand this is a business and he is still going to get paid no matter what. He is a 10th man on a roster and he needs to remember that. He's not a star.

We are winning right now.

Our rotation is fine right now, with or without him.

Our young players, especially Tyrus are going well and learning.

Those things all make what PJ Brown says meaningless.


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

McBulls said:


> I for one think PJ's asking to be traded is the best possible outcome of the Chandler trade. His main value to the Bulls lies in his expiring contract, which could fetch something reasonably valuable in return
> 
> - a vet or two whose contracts this year are within 25% of his
> - a large piece in a consolidation trade
> ...


Or we sign a free agent in the summer.


----------



## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



kukoc4ever said:


> I think the Bulls org really did consider PJ a valuable cog for this team this season.
> 
> They started him opening night.
> 
> ...


Nice try, K4E but I am not buying it.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



lgtwins said:


> Nice try, K4E but I am not buying it.


I'm not selling anything though.

PJ Brown is considered one of the classiest players in the league. Wise too.

PJ Brown is currently unhappy here playing under PaxSkiles.

Do you disagree with the above two statements?

Seems pretty straightforward.


----------



## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



kukoc4ever said:


> I'm not selling anything though.
> 
> PJ Brown is considered one of the classiest players in the league. Wise too.
> 
> ...


I know all these recent wins have been tough for you to handle. I'm glad for you that PJ's discontent became public, I'm sure it makes you feel much better.

Let's keep in mind that PJ Brown was not quoted in the article as being upset with Management. PJ's unhappiness is attributed to a "league source."


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Why are some of you guys getting emotional over this? We don't want nor need P.J. Brown, so the SOONER he's traded, the better we'll be.

Zach Randolph
Pau Gasol
Kevin Garnett
Jermaine O'Neal

pick your poison


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

My whole take on player's wanting to be traded out of Chicago is simple.

I love the city of Chicago. And I love my Chicago sports teams (Bulls, Bears & White Sox). I was, am and will be a fan of those teams.

Sure a player has his right in saying what he wants as a player and a person. It's a business after all.

But as a fan, anytime a player comes out in public saying "he want out of Chicago", especially when one's performance on the court was disappointing at best, my simple reaction is "screw him." If a player doesn't want to play for the city and team that I love, I don't want his as* in here too. So screw you, PJ.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



The Truth said:


> I know all these recent wins have been tough for you to handle.


Actually, I had the Bulls finishing 3rd in the East. So I'm glad they are climbing that mountain.



The Truth said:


> I'm glad for you that PJ's discontent became public, I'm sure it makes you feel much better.


Actually, while I thought he'd be pretty much crap on the court, which he has been, I'm surprised that he's not enough of a class act to just do his job, collect his 8 million and retire to the NBA old folks home.

Is his league wise reputation for being a class guy is suspect? Is something legit about working for PaxSkiles that turns his stomach? Why would a class guy like PJ go public like this? 



> Let's keep in mind that PJ Brown was not quoted in the article as being upset with Management. PJ's unhappiness is attributed to a "league source."


Attack the Source against KC Johnson? I think KC Johnson is one of the best Bulls writers around, but perhaps he’s spreading discontent or just has this one wrong. Still though, my money is on KC vs. a knee-jerk ATS.


----------



## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



kukoc4ever said:


> I'm not selling anything though.
> 
> PJ Brown is considered one of the classiest players in the league. Wise too.
> 
> ...


Oh, stop it. This one's beneath you.

OK for PJ to feel this way. No point in voicing it to the press. I'm genuinely disappointed in him.

He'll get traded if it makes sense for the Bulls to trade him. If it doesn't make sense, he'll stay. Paxson won't trade him for someone else's high-priced garbage just to make him happy.

Play hard and shut up.


----------



## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



transplant said:


> Oh, stop it. This one's beneath you.
> 
> OK for PJ to feel this way. No point in voicing it to the press. I'm genuinely disappointed in him.
> 
> ...


And eat your vegetables, say your prayers , and go to bed early


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*

Duhon isn't playing tonight. Are they being shipped in a package?


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*

Sefolosha also hasn't played yet.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*

Chicago Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

P.J. Brown
6-11 PF from Louisiana Tech
9.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.8 minutes

Chris Duhon
6-1 PG from Duke
8.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 29.1 minutes

Thabo Sefolosha
6-5 from Switzerland (Foreign)
No games yet played in 2005/06
Incoming

Pau Gasol
7-0 PF from Spain (Foreign)
20.4 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 4.6 apg in 39.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: +2.7 ppg, -1.4 rpg, and -1.6 apg.

Memphis Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Pau Gasol
7-0 PF from Spain (Foreign)
20.4 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 4.6 apg in 39.1 minutes
Incoming

P.J. Brown
6-11 PF from Louisiana Tech
9.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.8 minutes

Chris Duhon
6-1 PG from Duke
8.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 29.1 minutes

Thabo Sefolosha
6-5 from Switzerland (Foreign)
No games yet played in 2005/06
Change in team outlook: -2.7 ppg, +1.4 rpg, and +1.6 apg.


Successful Scenario
Due to Chicago and Memphis being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Chicago and Memphis had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

---------------

The Bulls would have to add a pick of some sort as well???


----------



## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



transplant said:


> OK for PJ to feel this way. No point in voicing it to the press. I'm genuinely disappointed in him.


But PJ _didn't_ voice it to the press. The actual quotes from Brown in the article seem very respectable and he voices no discontent; he says that he hopes the situation is resolved soon so it's not a distraction to the team.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



such sweet thunder said:


> Chicago Trade Breakdown
> Outgoing
> 
> P.J. Brown
> ...


I think we would have to give up the pick unconditionally (maybe #1 protected best case scenario ) 

Duhon makes some sense for them even though Kyle Lowry looks like he could be a player . Dahntay Jones hasn't done anything special and they are OK for wing depth and I don't see the need /attraction for Thabo when you have Mike Miller who can handle the ball some and you have Jones's defense /athleticism and of course the upside of Rudy Gay - and you also have vets Bobby Jones and Stoudamire , Eddie Jones who could keep around for low vet dollars and Duhon and Lowry - the dual tandem running the flyers in Gay and Warwick 

A big back in this draft makes sense ( assuming we protect for Oden ) if they get PJ and Sweets back with Duhon maybe 

Certainly Gasol would be a great fit with Wallace IMO and then you have Deng, Nocioni and Thomas behind those guys...awesome

Kirk , Ben and Thabo in the backcourt backed by Griffin and Andre Barrett types

If we could get Gasol for the 2007 pick ( #1 protected ) and Duhon with PJ and Sweets as filler I would be all over it 

Not sure that Memphis would though..with a healthy Gasol back and a likely high lottery pick of their own this year ..Gasol, Warwick , Gay, Miller , Lowry - plus an addition such as a Roy Hibbert or the kid from UConn that has everyone buzzing ( name escapes ) ..that's quite a team

Pau has his money and he's tied up . Memphis don't have to deal him and I wouldn't think they will


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

> ATLANTA -- General manager John Paxson has scheduled a meeting Monday morning with P.J. Brown and agent Mark Bartelstein to discuss more fully Brown's unhappiness after the veteran forward told the Tribune he hoped his short Bulls tenure would end soon.
> 
> Paxson spoke at length Saturday with Brown and Bartelstein. In a statement, Paxson said:
> 
> ...


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-061216bullsbits,1,4483205.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Maybe there's a better spot for him? This team is begging for productive size and PJ has given them nothing. Why doesn't he pipe down and perform, and then maybe the minutes will come. My God, this is stupid.

Edit: Since I can't believe PJ could possible be this stupid, I've got to imagine that a) he and/or his family don't like Chicago at all or b) he does not get along with Skiles.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

On Monday, I thought he was showing some initiative by going to the basket and being aggressive. If he wants to play for a loser team and get 30+ minutes that's fine with me but if he gets traded to a crappy team, he better expect that he'll be benched later in the year for the coaches and management to get a nice long look at the young guys, while losing almost every game.

But if winning isn't that important to him, so be it. And there is nothing wrong with placing his family's wants and needs as a top priority but show that you are worth 30 minutes on this team. Play some of that good interior D instead of fouling every single time.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

PJ is such an assclown it's amazing.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Antonio Davis.

Classy older vet. President of the players union, too, right? Well respected by his peers in any case.

Comes to Chicago in the Rose deal, was a true buckaroo. Wanted to finish his career and retire here. Helped us win 47 games, most ever since MJ hung up the UNC shorts.

How quickly we all forget.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

The Tribune article mentions we can do a PJ for Maggette trade straight up. I'd love that. We'd lose a big-man, but I dunno if Maggette would fit our offensive philosophy. He could start over Duhon, but I dunno with Skiles.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

theanimal23 said:


> The Tribune article mentions we can do a PJ for Maggette trade straight up. I'd love that. We'd lose a big-man, but I dunno if Maggette would fit our offensive philosophy. He could start over Duhon, but I dunno with Skiles.


The Bulls cannot afford to waste a trade chip on a non-big unless he's a superstar.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



Machinehead said:


> I think we would have to give up the pick unconditionally (maybe #1 protected best case scenario )
> 
> Duhon makes some sense for them even though Kyle Lowry looks like he could be a player . Dahntay Jones hasn't done anything special and they are OK for wing depth and I don't see the need /attraction for Thabo when you have Mike Miller who can handle the ball some and you have Jones's defense /athleticism and of course the upside of Rudy Gay - and you also have vets Bobby Jones and Stoudamire , Eddie Jones who could keep around for low vet dollars and Duhon and Lowry - the dual tandem running the flyers in Gay and Warwick
> 
> ...


I just tossed it out there because Duhon and Sefolosha didn't play last night -- so I was trying to figure out if something had already been done. Apparently, Duhon hurt himself diving into the stands yesterday, so my specualation (as it usually is) was premature.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> The Bulls cannot afford to waste a trade chip on a non-big unless he's a superstar.


Maggette would hold more value at the trade deadline than PJ's expiring deal, IMO. Clipps wouldn't do this though. If they would, I'd be all over it.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Well, this guy is officially a useless piece of crap in my book. Before I thought he sucked and was useless, but now that he's stupid enough to complain he's a piece of crap on top of it. The guy is so old he can barely move, and so he gets benched. I'll sit on the bench to the tune of $8 mill a year or w/e he's making. Just sit there and count that money...god what a loser. Y'all loving the Chandler trade still? Just keeps getting better doesn't it?


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

> "He's not trying to be disruptive or sabotage a team," Bartelstein said. "He enjoys his teammates a ton. Is he thrilled with what's going on right now? No, because he's been a 30-minute-plus guy throughout his career.


That's my favorite part. I wish I could hear PJ or Bartelsteain spell out how they envision the evolution of PJ's career. The guy is 37 and played for a team that didn't make the playoffs last season. Does he expect to play 28 minutes this season and then 25 next season? At that rate he'll be playing 15 MPG when he's in his 40s. Most players are retired at his age. I just don't see how a 37 year old who has been more or less a role player for most of his career can be this demanding. It's not often you hear someone at this age beg to be traded from a competitor to a struggling team to play more minutes, especially when he previously expressed how badly he wants a chance to win a championship.


----------



## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Y'all loving the Chandler trade still? Just keeps getting better doesn't it?



Yeah i really hate where we're at these days.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

DengNabbit said:


> Yeah i really hate where we're at these days.


Perhaps we should also give away Duhon. We could still be a decent team. Perhaps we should give away Thomas. We could still be a decent team this year.


----------



## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Y'all loving the Chandler trade still? Just keeps getting better doesn't it?


Yup, I'm going to hate having Brown's 8+ mil of cap space back and not having to pay Tyson Chandler for the next 4 years. It's going to suck resigning Deng, Nocioni and Gordon to extensions.

Oh and say what you want about JR Smith, but I'm sure the Bulls brass was patting themselves on the back last night after that brawl in NY


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> Antonio Davis.
> 
> Classy older vet. President of the players union, too, right? Well respected by his peers in any case.
> 
> ...


I think AD living in the suburbs helped a bit. Wasn't he complaining in Toronto?


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Are we Bulls fans unique in our love for wallowing in the past?


----------



## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> Perhaps we should also give away Duhon. We could still be a decent team. Perhaps we should give away Thomas. We could still be a decent team this year.


that isnt directed to me is it? i'm not giving away anyone.


----------



## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

i mean if the bulls wanna trade PJ then they should get a bigman in his place


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

SoCalfan21 said:


> i mean if the bulls wanna trade PJ then they should get a bigman in his place


DUh?


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Are we Bulls fans unique in our love for wallowing in the past?


Well I believe one fan certainly wallows and he happens to post alot and his tune rarely changes. The only player I morn the loss of is Elton but that's water under the bridge.

BUt how about this for a trade 

Pj to the 76ers 
Duhon to the 76ers 
Sweets to the Clips

AI and Willie Green to the Clips 

Brand to the Bulls
Corey Maggette to the 76ers

I am so over losing Brand


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Both Joe Smith or Danny Fortson (other bigs who have expiring contracts) can be obtained with PJ contract...


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't we go ahead, and play PJ Brown 30 minutes on night, and then we get a Disabled Player Trade Exception for 8 million?


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Zuca said:


> Both Joe Smith or Danny Fortson (other bigs who have expiring contracts) can be obtained with PJ contract...



What's the point of having PJ's contract if we're gonna waste it on guys like that?


----------



## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Mike McGraw update



> When Denver was looking to dump salaries to make room on its payroll for Allen Iverson, Paxson said he’d only be willing to take Marcus Camby off the Nuggets’ roster. Denver offered Nene for Brown, then came back with a combination of *Reggie Evans, Earl Boykins and Eduardo Najera*, but the answer was still no.


So that Philly "insider" on the RealGM board seems to be legit. He broke that potential deal several days ago, long before anyone else. He said Pax nixed the deal because he didn't want to include Duhon. Thank goodness. Of course McGraw could just be reporting what he read on an internet message board, but that's not likely... or is it? :clown:


Other potential names thrown around...



> The Bulls could use another big man, but as usual, there aren’t many available. The Bulls might consider swapping Brown for New Jersey’s *Jason Collins *if the Nets want to get out from under the last two years of Collins’ contract to save money for Vince Carter’s next deal.


Don't want him. 



> They might consider Golden State power forward *Troy Murphy* if he was offered.


McGraw seems to insist we have an interest. I hope he's wrong. Murphy sucks. 



> Prying *Jeff Foster *away from Indiana is a longshot, but the Bulls would love to have him.


This one I like, he's like a lesser version of Camby. Indiana wouldn't do this straight up, but maybe we could entice them by taking Stephen Jackson off their hands. Seems like he has negative trade value these days, but I remember him saying he loved coach Skiles. He was openly campaigning to join the Bulls when he was a free agent a few years back. 




> The Bulls would almost certainly pass on Portland center *Jamaal Magloire *and his rapidly declining production.


Couldn't agree more.



> One big man who should be available is Thornton High School product *Melvin Ely*, who barely plays for Charlotte and is headed toward unrestricted free agency. Ely only makes $3.3 million, though, so he can’t be traded alone for Brown


I think Mike is wrong here. Charlotte is way under the cap. They could easily absorb PJ's contract without sending much back. Just like how they were mentioned in the Iverson rumors. However, I do believe Ely is playing for the QO this year, and so there are some restrictions on trading him. I think they need his permission. I'm also unsure about salary requirements in deals involving him. Maybe PJ + 2nd rounders for Ely + Brezec?


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

UMfan83 said:


> Yup, I'm going to hate having Brown's 8+ mil of cap space back and not having to pay Tyson Chandler for the next 4 years. It's going to suck resigning Deng, Nocioni and Gordon to extensions.
> 
> Oh and say what you want about JR Smith, but I'm sure the Bulls brass was patting themselves on the back last night after that brawl in NY


Resigning them will be NO different at all if they end up trading for some other big contract like busted up OLD Marcus Camby! That's my point. I can at least understand the retarded Chandler trade a LITTLE if we would keep the cap space and resign guys using it. BUT, if all they're going to do is trade away a 24 year old or w/e Chandler is now away for an older, more fragile version of him with the same contract, that makes it 100% retarded. 

Top that off with Brown being a whiney little biatch, and it was completely worthless.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

That Jason Collins name is from a message board....no way Paxson would take a crappy player with a crappy contract. He'd just take Nene if this was the case.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Wow. Denver must have soured incredibly fast on Nene to give him 6 years/$60 million this summer and then turn around and offer him for PJ Brown in December. 

I haven't seen Nene play this season. Is he just stinking it up or what?


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

SALO said:


> I think Mike is wrong here. Charlotte is way under the cap. They could easily absorb PJ's contract without sending much back. Just like how they were mentioned in the Iverson rumors. However, I do believe Ely is playing for the QO this year, and so there are some restrictions on trading him. I think they need his permission. I'm also unsure about salary requirements in deals involving him. Maybe PJ + 2nd rounders for Ely + Brezec?


I'd do that deal in a heartbeat, they unfortunately, probably wouldn't. Othella Harrington, Jake Voskal & P.J. Brown would be their only back-ups. I dunno, maybe it could happen, just depends on how strongly they feel about Brezec. Look at his production, it's nowhere near where it was even a season ago.

Plus, they're already gonna be under the cap far enough to snag anyone that wants to come there, come offseason time. Do they really have a NEED as to wanting P.J's contract?

C Wallace / Brezec
F Ely / Thomas
F Deng / Nocioni
G Gordon / Sefolosha
G Hinrich / Duhon

We'd defintely improve our frontline's athleticism but neither player are game-changers.


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

The ROY said:


> What's the point of having PJ's contract if we're gonna waste it on guys like that?


I thought that Paxson was looking to free some cap space with PJ contract, and not trading for someone (with exception of a superstar case, like AI, of course) who still have a contract in next season.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Zuca said:


> I thought that Paxson was looking to free some cap space with PJ contract, and not trading for someone (with exception of a superstar case, like AI, of course) who still have a contract in next season.


True, which is why I feel there's no need to waste Pj's contract on a player like that, with THAT sort of contract.

If anything else, let him expire, along with Sweetney, Marty, Andre & Malik. Those contracts alone give us about 13 mill in capspace, leaving us with the following under contract :

G Hinrich / Duhon
G Gordon / Sefolosha / Griffin
F Deng / Nocioni
F Thomas
C Wallace


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

We won't have any cap space if we just let PJ's contract expire. Only the MLE & LLE. Hinrich's contract was front-loaded, and Nocioni has a cap hold of like $9M. Letting PJ's deal expire just saves ownership more money, it does nothing for our cap.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

SALO said:


> We won't have any cap space if we just let PJ's contract expire. Only the MLE & LLE. Hinrich's contract was front-loaded, and Nocioni has a cap hold of like $9M. Letting PJ's deal expire just saves ownership more money, it does nothing for our cap.


ahh, I see


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Wow. Denver must have soured incredibly fast on Nene to give him 6 years/$60 million this summer and then turn around and offer him for PJ Brown in December.
> 
> I haven't seen Nene play this season. Is he just stinking it up or what?


He's gained A LOT of weight. Not necessarily fat, but he's so much bulkier these days. I almost didn't recognize him when I saw him on the court.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

SALO said:


> He's gained A LOT of weight. Not necessarily fat, but he's so much bulkier these days. I almost didn't recognize him when I saw him on the court.


My guess is just like every other player that spent a summer as an RFA, he was under orders not to risk a major injury working out too much. Plus he was actually coming off a major injury, so he had that to deal with.

This season will be a wash for him. Next year, of course, assuming he's motivated to get in shape (I haven't seen anything to suggest he's not), he'll have his legs under him again and have demonstrated he's back. Until then, few GMs will take a risk on a guy coming off a major injury like that.

-------------------------------

Jason Collins?? Hell no. Jarron, maybe.

Melvin Ely can't beat out Othella for minutes. How does he help? 

Jeff Foster... I like Jeff Foster a lot.

Both of those deals would end our long-shot chance at a consolidation trade down the road. At the deadline, however, I'd be up for one.

-------------------

Murphy is well down the list of people I want.

-----------------

*Magloire actually makes sense*. What difference does it make if his skills are "rapidly declining"? They aren't going to decline more than PJ's. * Brown is 37, Magloire is 28. Magoire still has time on his side.* This should be underscored by the fact the Sixers were reportedly eager to take Magloire and unenthusiastic about Brown.

What's more,* Magloire is an expiring deal too.* So doing this trade now would still leave open the option of a consolidation trade later in the year. Even if it doesn't work out on the court, we still keep our options open.

* And best of all, it gets rid of a malcontent.* If PJ isn't happy with us, ship him off to Portland. Magloire probably isn't happy playing behind lots of young guys there. He's like the 3rd string guy there. He might only be the 2nd stringer here, but that's still an improvement. 

So the end result of that trade would look good for us. We get a guy who will probably be happier here, we keep our trade flexibility, and we get a guy who's 9 years younger.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Brown sorry he caused a fuss




> After meeting with general manager John Paxson and coach Scott Skiles regarding his unhappiness in Chicago, P.J. Brown apologized to his teammates and the Bulls organization Monday.
> 
> But nobody from Brown's camp or Bulls management disputed the notion that Brown might be happier elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Also a story here: Brown apologizes for trade demand 



> Asked if he’s disappointed with his playing time, Brown skirted the topic. But Skiles treated the ordeal as a minor incident.
> 
> “I don’t want anybody that doesn’t want to play,” Skiles said. “I want guys who want to play all the time. The backside of that is understanding why you may not be playing. You have to ask for that understanding, too.”
> 
> Brown has missed the past three games with a plantar fascia strain in his right foot and did not practice Monday, but he’s hoping to get on the floor during today’s shootaround.


And Brown apologizes but still wants trade 



> Bartelstein said it was a good time to get together with Paxson and coach Scott Skiles.
> 
> ''Just to clear the air on a couple of things and get on the same page,'' Bartelstein said. ''It was a productive meeting. We're going to focus on moving forward, and P.J. will continue to be the consummate professional he's always been.''
> 
> ...


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Brigham: PJ Wants Out + Pau Wants Out = Pau in Chi?*



The Truth said:


> But PJ _didn't_ voice it to the press. The actual quotes from Brown in the article seem very respectable and he voices no discontent; he says that he hopes the situation is resolved soon so it's not a distraction to the team.


Makes you wonder why he felt the need to apologize for "going public" with his feelings.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Skiles has been downright nice to these clowns this season.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

. . . at least publicly.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Ok, guys. So what's the story on Mark Blount? what kind of player is he? I don't know much about him. But his stats look very solid in his 3 years in Minnesota. I have a feeling you guys are not going to be interested in this guy because of his contract and his age. 

He's 31 years old with 3 years left in his big contract (around 7 million a year). We probably don't want his contract because we want to resign Nocioni, Deng, Gordon in the near future.

Is he as good as his stats? or is it KG effect? But I know he's not a Jerome James.

He's been averaging 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 1 bpg, .530 FG%, good FT shooter .730FT% for 3 years in Minnesota. He's about 6'11" at least, closer to 7'0".

PJ's contract for him straight up is possible if wolves is in rebuilding mode and looking to dump salary. But I can't see the wolves switch to rebuilding mode unless KG got traded.

Just curious about the guy, don't know much about him.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

so Blount is really that bad that nobody cares?


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

RSP83 said:


> so Blount is really that bad that nobody cares?


Blount is a pretty much a dog, IMO. He's consistently been accused of having effort issues over the years, has a big contract and doesn't really defend or rebound.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

jbulls said:


> Blount [...] doesn't really defend or rebound.


Neither any of our big man except Ben Wallace. Blount put up 10 points a game from the center position. Are most of them jumpers? or back to the basket type?


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

RSP83 said:


> Neither any of our big man except Ben Wallace. Blount put up 10 points a game from the center position. Are most of them jumpers? or back to the basket type?


I've only seen a couple Minny games this season, but Blount's offense seems to be directly related to KG - defenses leave Blount open or in a mismatch in order to deal with KG. And KG's unselfish enough to give him the rock for easy baskets.

Granted - small sample size. My opinion of Blount over the years is mostly that he plays softer than his size and most of his offense is on chip-shot jumpers created by Pierce or KG collapsing the defense and dropping it off to him. Sort of like Bill Wennington :yay:


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Have we thought about perhaps trading Brown for a deal that expires in 2 years, effectively rolling over his expiring contract for another year? I still think a consolidation trade is necessary (unless we land Oden) and an expiring contract would be really helpful in making a deal work and salaries match.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> I've only seen a couple Minny games this season, but Blount's offense seems to be directly related to KG - defenses leave Blount open or in a mismatch in order to deal with KG. And KG's unselfish enough to give him the rock for easy baskets.
> 
> Granted - small sample size. My opinion of Blount over the years is mostly that he plays softer than his size and most of his offense is on chip-shot jumpers created by Pierce or KG collapsing the defense and dropping it off to him. Sort of like Bill Wennington :yay:


sounds like he's not any better than Sweetney other than he's 4 inches taller.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

RSP83 said:


> sounds like he's not any better than Sweetney other than he's 4 inches taller.


probably not. at least for what we need. We already have Malik and Crapper to hit the midrange jumper and not rebound particularly well. Blount would provide a legit center-sized body to put on people and let Wallace work as a help defender a little more, but other than that he doesn't provide much.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

> Erick Dampier's performance cemented Sonics coach Bob Hill's desire for another legitimate center. An obvious choice could be the Bulls' P.J. Brown, who makes $8 million in the final year of his contract and has asked for a trade.
> -- Seattle Post-Intelligencer


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/12/21/truth.rumors.nba/index.html

You want a veteran big man, we'll glady trade PJ Brown for your rookie Sene and Fortson? Seattle, you don't need Sene, his a project, give him to use. Why would you want a young project like Sene over a proven aged Brown. 

If your wondering why Fortson? Because it evens up the trade, and his an expiring contract so don't get your knickers in a twist.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

kulaz3000 said:


> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/12/21/truth.rumors.nba/index.html
> 
> You want a veteran big man, we'll glady trade PJ Brown for your rookie Sene and Fortson? Seattle, you don't need Sene, his a project, give him to use. Why would you want a young project like Sene over a proven aged Brown.
> 
> If your wondering why Fortson? Because it evens up the trade, and his an expiring contract so don't get your knickers in a twist.


Fortson sets hard screen and hit his FT (Well... I don't know now, but he used to shoot high percentage FT when Sonics made their run to WCSF). I used to live in Seattle and got to watch him play a lot. The only good thing about having him down in the post with Ben Wallace is they would scare the sh*t out of any slasher in the league. Slashers would have to think about their shot getting blocked by Wallace or getting hacked/elbowed/pushed/[add your favorite cheap shot] by Fortson. Ask Zarko Cabarkapa for reference (Zarko was thought to be a great prospect when he was a rookie, but he's never the same after what Fortson did to him).

If we do get Sene from this trade, look for Sloth to be all over the general forum saying the Bulls will be a dynasty starting next year.

EDIT: oh, I forgot to say that this trade is not bad IMO. Fortson is an expiring contract, Sene has good size and potential (not too high on his potential though. poor man's Hasheem Thabeet?).


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

kulaz3000 said:


> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/12/21/truth.rumors.nba/index.html
> 
> You want a veteran big man, we'll glady trade PJ Brown for your rookie Sene and Fortson? Seattle, you don't need Sene, his a project, give him to use. Why would you want a young project like Sene over a proven aged Brown.
> 
> If your wondering why Fortson? Because it evens up the trade, and his an expiring contract so don't get your knickers in a twist.


An expiring contract for a young lotto pick.

Something tells me that Seattle won't go for this anymore than we would.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

I have a bad feeling about the PJ Brown situation. Oh, it has nothing to do with him being a distraction or malcontent...he'll be fine. 

I have to believe that Brown was acquired, at least in part, for his expiring contract with the long-awaited "consolidation trade" in mind. As our young talent improves, the list of players for whom we'd trade a core player + PJ's contract + the Knicks' pick has become VERY short, possibly as short as 1 (Garnett). The list of players we'd trade a core player + PJ's contract (no pick) has shortened as well.

Importantly, the likely consolidation candidates play for teams that don't seem to be in any hurry to make a move.

The consolidation trade may still happen, but it's becoming increasingly likely that it won't. Trading Brown straight up for someone else's overpaid problem doesn't make sense, because that player will be no more than a role-player, and God knows we have as many of those as we could ever want. Letting Brown's contract expire does us no good. As rwj333 said, we may need to try to trade PJ for a 2008 expiring contract at the deadline just to keep the consolidation possibilities in play for next year.

Then again, maybe we win the whole thing this season and the consolidation thing becomes a little less important.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

McBulls said:


> An expiring contract for a young lotto pick.
> 
> Something tells me that Seattle won't go for this anymore than we would.


You never know with the situation over in Seattle at the moment. The management is in limbo, and coach Bob Hill is playing Seattle out of games. 

But yes, its highly unlikely anyone trades a rookie in their first year. But hey, it was worth a dip on what i read on the trade rumour mills..

I MIGHT take a closer look at Collison. His a big, who doesn't mind staying in low to board, and can hit a jumper. Or maybe even Wilcox, but i've shyed away from Wilcox and his incositent play, but his only got a 3 year contract which could be a short term project. 

But the only player that interests me in Seattle is Sene.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

i'd highly endorse a move for the young big from seattle; (even at his level of rawness) fortson is a tough rebounder, less "jibby" than what is known around these parts, but his toughness (if his mind is right, and he's playing for a deal) would be valuable in the playoffs. 

if necessary, make the 2nd rounders futher enticement for a 2 for 1.
i was high on wilcox, but i don't see him moving (he's been too inconsistent with the opportunity for big minutes in seattle; guess i was wrong about him) not a big fan of collison, but he can play.

a young big, an expiring deal, while keeping the right to a potential lotto pick next season (in which he'll most likely look for big) this would be an extremely shrewd GM move, solidyfing paxson's burgeoning expertise as an up and comer in the top ranks of gm'ing.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I'd do Earl Watson and Sene for PJ Brown.

Take on their bad contract, but get the big boy!

Sene's going to be a beast, best defensive center in a long time. If we can steal him from Seattle, we gotta do it! He is good for some short burn this season at this point, maybe some extended burn later in the year. Get him more coordinated in the NBA game, and with Tyrus, Wallace, and Sene, it'll be a block party.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> I'd do Earl Watson and Sene for PJ Brown.


not that i don't like the kid, but why in heaven's name would the bull want earl watson? there's 6 guards on the roster currently, 3 pgs, 4 if you include barrett. 

a case could have been made for smith, but what could they possibly do with another point?


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

i heard that the nets want PJ Brown for Jason Collins. id do that trade


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

BULLHITTER said:


> not that i don't like the kid, but why in heaven's name would the bull want earl watson? there's 6 guards on the roster currently, 3 pgs, 4 if you include barrett.
> 
> a case could have been made for smith, but what could they possibly do with another point?


Because he has a bad contract, and us taking on a bad contract could get us Sene.

Fortson is expiring, so why would they trade Fortson and Sene just for an expiring contract?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Does anyone look at Sene's utter rawness and wonder why we would want to do a trade like that?

I'd consider a guy like Petro, but at this point Sene well could be the league's single worst player.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

MikeDC said:


> Does anyone look at Sene's utter rawness and wonder why we would want to do a trade like that?
> 
> I'd consider a guy like Petro, but at this point Sene well could be the league's single worst player.


Sene's a beast. I don't care if we get just Earl Watson who is just another bad contract guard, and get no help up front this season from the trade. Sene is going to be a DPOY, and tyrus and big ben are good shotblockers for him to learn from.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

BULLHITTER said:


> i'd highly endorse a move for the young big from seattle; (even at his level of rawness) fortson is a tough rebounder, less "jibby" than what is known around these parts, but his toughness (if his mind is right, and he's playing for a deal) would be valuable in the playoffs.


Interesting thing about Fortson is he was at his best when he was coached by Nate McMillan who's like Skiles, a discplinarian. That year the Sonics surprised everybody winning 50 games if I'm not mistaken and went to the WCSF. Fortson was an important part of that team. But that team have a good vocal leader in Ray Allen. We don't.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Sene would end up playing alongside Marty Andrews in D-League.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Sene would end up playing alongside Marty Andrews in D-League.


As a matter of fact, I looked up his profile on ESPN and it said he's due to be sent there


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> As a matter of fact, I looked up his profile on ESPN and it said he's due to be sent there


Maybe that'd be Pax' idea of going for broke on two young guys to be our next twin towers


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Yup.

PG-Ben Gordon
SG-Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Tyrus Thomas
PF-Greg Oden
C- Saer Sene

!!!! BLOCKAGE.

Off the bench.

PG-Kirk Hinrich
SG-Chris Duhon
SF-Andres Nocioni
PF-Ben Wallace
C- Martynas Andrisusaljblahhbnuisuighoisihjiuibjhlkjlkghauiohiobhis


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> Yup.
> 
> PG-Ben Gordon
> SG-Thabo Sefolosha
> ...


No doubt! we're going to average 40 bpg. We are also going to score about 30 points per game. Nice!


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