# T-Mac to Sactown



## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

If T-Mac wants out, we should look to trade him to the Suns or the Kings. Everybody knows about the Marion trade, but how about this one with the Kings? If the Kings lose tonight they'll be looking to shake things up, and they need a shooting guard anyway. Of course, T-Mac has to have a new long-term deal before this happens:

Orlando trades: SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes) 
PF Drew Gooden (11.6 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.0 minutes) 
PG Tyronn Lue (10.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.2 apg in 30.7 minutes) 
Orlando receives: PG Mike Bibby (18.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 36.4 minutes) 
C Brad Miller (14.1 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.4 minutes) 
SF Gerald Wallace (2.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.1 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -15.6 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -0.6 apg. 

Sacramento trades: PG Mike Bibby (18.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 36.4 minutes) 
C Brad Miller (14.1 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.4 minutes) 
SF Gerald Wallace (2.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.1 minutes) 
Sacramento receives: SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 67 games) 
PF Drew Gooden (11.6 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.1 apg in 79 games) 
PG Tyronn Lue (10.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.2 apg in 76 games) 
Change in team outlook: +15.6 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +0.6 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


Orlando uses the MLE to sign Stephen Jackson and drafts Okafor. Bibby and Miller address the two biggest needs of the team and Wallace provides depth at the wing:

PG- Bibby, Stevenson
SG- Jackson, Bogans
SF- Hill, Garrity, Wallace
PF- Okafor, Howard
C- Miller, DeClercq, Pachulia

IL: Gaines, 2nd rounders


Sacramento uses the MLE on Brent Barry and drafts Robert Swift as the center of the future. It's hard to part with Bibby and Miller, but it's not every day that a top 5 player in his prime becomes available. Lue adds depth at the 1 and Gooden replaces Miller as the big guy off the bench.

PG- Barry, Jackson, Lue
SG- McGrady, Christie
SF- Stojakovic, Peeler, Buford
PF- Webber, Gooden
C- Divac, Songalia

IL: Swift, 2nd rounder

Picks can be put in on either side and the fillers can be adjusted. What do you guys think?


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

thats not bad..bibby+brad miller would be awesome in the east...i dont know much about gerald wallace.. but he's good.


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

I don't really like this trade.

Just curious, would you guys do Chris Webber and Bobby Jackson for T-Mac (I know it doesn't work salary-wise, others would have to be added to the deal)?


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

In a word.... no. We've all seen just how much of an effect Webber has on his team. :laugh:


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> In a word.... no. We've all seen just how much of an effect Webber has on his team. :laugh:


dude..webber was clutch last night...except for the last 3 he shot and the missed layup b/c of the behind the back foul they didn't call

he was hitting his wide open jumpers..haha

but..I wouldn't do that trade... Maybe if webber learned to jump again and christie+bibby...haha..but that would be your whole team.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Peja Vu</b>!
> I don't really like this trade.
> 
> Just curious, would you guys do Chris Webber and Bobby Jackson for T-Mac (I know it doesn't work salary-wise, others would have to be added to the deal)?


C'mon man, Jackson and especially Webber are damaged goods. There's no way the Magic do that, they have enough power forwards already.

BTW, could you be more specific about what you don't like about the trade?


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

Thanks...I was just throwing it out there.

I don't like the trade because I really wouldn't want to part with Bibby, the one player on the team who wants to take a big shot.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Peja Vu</b>!
> Thanks...I was just throwing it out there.
> 
> I don't like the trade because I really wouldn't want to part with Bibby, the one player on the team who wants to take a big shot.


Yeah...I don't want to part with McGrady...the one player on the team who is going to take the big shot


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah...I don't want to part with McGrady...the one player on the team who is going to take the big shot


That's what Bibby's for  . Besides, if T-Mac is going to leave anyway...

EDIT: Just something else to add in defense of my trade: I know some Kings fans are thinking, "Miller is our center of the future, we can't trade him." To that, I ask who is your shooting guard of the future? Christie isn't getting younger, and that position certainly needs to be addresed. I also think that Webber, Divac, Gooden, Songalia, and Swift is a promising big man rotation but Orlando might be able to substitute a center into the trade instead of Lue.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> dude..webber was clutch last night...except for the last 3 he shot and the missed layup b/c of the behind the back foul they didn't call
> ...


Webber wasn't clutch last night. He played very well and led his team until the pivotal moment of the game. He missed the layup. He missed the open 3. He basically sold the farm.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Webber wasn't clutch last night. He played very well and led his team until the pivotal moment of the game. He missed the layup. He missed the open 3. He basically sold the farm.


Webber was pretty good. He is so obviously not 100%. Peja is the one that stunk up the joint. And you cant blame Webber for missing that three. It was off-balance with time running down and it was right on, in and out. And he's not even a 3pt shooter.

But no, I wouldnt take Webber and Jackson for Tmac. Again, if Orlando trades Tmac they are going to be looking for young studs with potential that they can build around, not a good but aging player on the decline.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Webber wasn't clutch last night. He played very well and led his team until the pivotal moment of the game. He missed the layup. He missed the open 3. He basically sold the farm.


yeah webber was clutch...he was draining jumpers like there is no tomorrow in a crucial point in the game... he missed a layup? was that the one where he was hit over the back??oh yeah thats right..someone from the twolves jumped over him and landed off his back and he shot..with NO CALL??


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## GoRaiders (May 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> In a word.... no. We've all seen just how much of an effect Webber has on his team. :laugh:


Are you serious?? Coming from an unbiased perspective C webb came to the kings and took them from one of the biggest jokes in the league to a powerhouse. Tmac came to the magic right after they had been in the playoffs, and basically brought the franchise down 3 levels. To say that cwebb has less of an impact on a team is CRAZY! Yall can say but and all this but the truth is.. what was the kings record before him and after?? what was the magics record before and now?? Case closed.


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## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GoRaiders</b>!
> 
> Are you serious?? Coming from an unbiased perspective *C webb came to the kings and took them from one of the biggest jokes in the league to a powerhouse.* Tmac came to the magic right after they had been in the playoffs, and basically brought the franchise down 3 levels. To say that cwebb has less of an impact on a team is CRAZY! Yall can say but and all this but the truth is.. what was the kings record before him and after?? what was the magics record before and now?? Case closed.


Its true.

:yes: :yes: :yes:


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> yeah webber was clutch...he was draining jumpers like there is no tomorrow in a crucial point in the game... he missed a layup? was that the one where he was hit over the back??oh yeah thats right..someone from the twolves jumped over him and landed off his back and he shot..with NO CALL??


Courtside you've gotta get passed no calls. Webber sold the farm. He did. He was the one who missed a layup. He missed three free throws(can't blame a no call in missed free throws), and he missed the open three. He blew it.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> yeah webber was clutch...he was draining jumpers like there is no tomorrow in a crucial point in the game... he missed a layup? was that the one where he was hit over the back??oh yeah thats right..someone from the twolves jumped over him and landed off his back and he shot..with NO CALL??


Courtside you've gotta get passed no calls. Webber sold the farm. He did. He was the one who missed a layup. He missed three free throws(can't blame a no call in missed free throws), and he missed the open three(he wasnt fouled then either). He blew it. 

Speaking of no calls, I never heard you mention Doug Christie traveling when he hit that big three on the fast break. He shuffled his feet big time.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GoRaiders</b>!
> 
> Are you serious?? Coming from an unbiased perspective C webb came to the kings and took them from one of the biggest jokes in the league to a powerhouse. Tmac came to the magic right after they had been in the playoffs, and basically brought the franchise down 3 levels. To say that cwebb has less of an impact on a team is CRAZY! Yall can say but and all this but the truth is.. what was the kings record before him and after?? what was the magics record before and now?? Case closed.


Unbiased?:laugh: CWebb did not make the Kings good by himself, it was only when they had Bibby, Peja, Divac, etc. that they had a great team. T-Mac did not bring the Magic down, Grant Hill and his mammoth contract did. The Magic had to give up players like Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins to make room for Hill, who has done nothing for the Magic. And now, look at what happened when Webber came back this season? The Kings fell out of first place and got worse. As bad as the Magic were this past season, they were even worse without T-Mac (2-13, average loss by 16+ points). Next time, think before you speak.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> Webber was pretty good. He is so obviously not 100%. Peja is the one that stunk up the joint. And you cant blame Webber for missing that three. It was off-balance with time running down and it was right on, in and out. And he's not even a 3pt shooter.


Yeah you can blame Webber. He is the teams best player. No one can seriously argue otherwise. 



> But no, I wouldnt take Webber and Jackson for Tmac. Again, if Orlando trades Tmac they are going to be looking for young studs with potential that they can build around, not a good but aging player on the decline.


Actually if Orlando trades Tmac it will be because Tmac doesn't want to play there anymore, so a Webber Jackson deal wouldn't be that bad of a trade considering other teams know Tmac wants out.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> Actually if Orlando trades Tmac it will be because Tmac doesn't want to play there anymore, so a Webber Jackson deal wouldn't be that bad of a trade considering other teams know Tmac wants out.


No, because regardless of what Tmac "wants", the team does not have to trade him. The team would be better off keeping him and having the cap space if he left than trading him for players they dont really want and cant build around.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> No, because regardless of what Tmac "wants", the team does not have to trade him. The team would be better off keeping him and having the cap space if he left than trading him for players they dont really want and cant build around.


Tracy is the only asset Orlando has. Should his attitude interfere with his gameplay, which it will if he wants to be traded he'll be worth less..... therefore they find a trade. Gotta get something for something before something turns into nothing. ala Eli Manning, John Elway, Steve Franchise, etc.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Tracy is the only asset Orlando has. Should his attitude interfere with his gameplay, which it will if he wants to be traded he'll be worth less..... therefore they find a trade. Gotta get something for something before something turns into nothing. ala Eli Manning, John Elway, Steve Franchise, etc.


I dont think you get the point. If Tmac leaves. Orlando is officially rebuilding. Which means a guy like Chris Webber does nothing but keep the team mediocre and take up cap space. He is not a building block for the future. Maybe 5 or 6 years ago, but not now.

Regardless of Tmac's attitude during the season or his play, if Tmac leaves his 12/13 mil a year or whatever it is will come off Orlando's salary cap. Orlando could care less at that point if Tmac's worth has dropped, which I highly doubt it even would. Everybody in the league knows what he can do, regardless of whether he has a poor season next year or not, he'll still get max money. And then Orlando can use the money to pick and choose players they want on the team and can build around, not be forced into picking up guys through a trade they dont necessarily want.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Tracy is the only asset Orlando has.


You have got to be kidding me...thats like saying Shaq is the only asset the Lakers have....


We have the #1 pick, Drew Gooden, Garrity, Hill's contract if he says he wants out, D. Stevenson, Juwan Howard...sure some of those players I listed won't get you much but if you package a bad contract of J. Howard with #1 pick..I'm sure some teams my like to trade..


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## AllenIverson (May 20, 2004)

If Sacramento takes T-Mac it would be a big mistake because T-Mac Sucks.


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## LInksbllr20 (May 27, 2004)

*stupid*

i wouldnt trade tmac now after they get the first round draft pick he might actually have someone to help him out.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AllenIverson</b>!
> If Sacramento takes T-Mac it would be a big mistake because T-Mac Sucks.


Good call.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>AllenIverson</b>!
> If Sacramento takes T-Mac it would be a big mistake because T-Mac Sucks.


I hear ya. He is terrible. Orlando should trade Tmac to LA for Slava Medvedenko and in one fell swoop end LA's domination because Tmac would drag them down so far with his utter suckiness.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AllenIverson</b>!
> If Sacramento takes T-Mac it would be a big mistake because T-Mac Sucks.


Certainly you're not talking about basketball.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont think you get the point. If Tmac leaves. Orlando is officially rebuilding. Which means a guy like Chris Webber does nothing but keep the team mediocre and take up cap space. He is not a building block for the future. Maybe 5 or 6 years ago, but not now.


Orlando is officially rebuilding now. We don't know for sure that Tmac doesn't want to play there, he may just be unhappy with the teams results every year since he's been there. If they could make a promising trade he may want to stay, but I doubt it. Since they're rebuilding, and can't make things work with Tracy, they have to look for someone with some sort of value. Webber and Jackson are a good start. It would be tough to match that offer considering Tmac may not be happy.



> Regardless of Tmac's attitude during the season or his play, if Tmac leaves his 12/13 mil a year or whatever it is will come off Orlando's salary cap. Orlando could care less at that point if Tmac's worth has dropped, which I highly doubt it even would. Everybody in the league knows what he can do, regardless of whether he has a poor season next year or not, he'll still get max money. And then Orlando can use the money to pick and choose players they want on the team and can build around, not be forced into picking up guys through a trade they dont necessarily want.


Good Point. But what's Webber and Jaxs contracts looking like? I'm guessing that Chris is nearing the end of his. And Jackson is a damn good guard to have either way, plus he can't be valued but so much considering he's a back up.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> You have got to be kidding me...thats like saying Shaq is the only asset the Lakers have....


No! LA probably has a much better chance of beating Orlando minus Tmac if they don't have Shaq. I'm just guessing.



> We have the #1 pick, Drew Gooden, Garrity, Hill's contract if he says he wants out, D. Stevenson, Juwan Howard...sure some of those players I listed won't get you much but if you package a bad contract of J. Howard with #1 pick..I'm sure some teams my like to trade..


Hill contract is out of question, no team wants that burden. The rest of the guys are all dead weight according to popular consensus this year. Any one of them plus the first pick, it's really that tempting. This years draft class is relatively mediocre. What could you possibly expect to get in return?


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## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

the kings fans know it, but, even if you (rightfully) dont like Tmac for Webber in any form, what about webber for Hill, Gooden, and the pick? The numbers work; yes, webbers contract is longer than hills, but only by one year, and webber was still able to put up 18, 8, and 4, and he will be more healthy next year. Yes, webber is injury prone, but any games he played would be more than hill. If you guys are more attached to Gooden than I know, then it could be someone else, I only said him because the numbers work that way. From the kings perspective, gooden and the pick could give them some much needed athleticism, and without webber and possibly vlade, the kings core is much younger, they could wait for the pick to develop for a few years, and I have read where scouts have said things like "he is good now and could be great" about howard, so it sounds like he could be ready to contribute, of course not like Lebron or Amare. This is based on the notion that the kings are better without webber, but I havent seen a deal that I think is better, and I dont know if webber is the sort of veteran that would make Tmac happier, but I could see him working wonders for your team. Its just a thought


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

No, I really don't want Webber at all, he's not what this team needs. From what I saw from him this year his game is starting to look similar to another ex-Bullet power forward past his prime. We don't need another one of those, especially not at the expense of Gooden and Okafor, two of Orlando's most valuable commodities.


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