# Thabo Sefolosha a Bull (merged thread)



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

*Thabo Sefolosha*












With Chad Ford reporting that the Bulls have narrowed their choice at #2 to the three bigs (Aldridge, Thomas, Bargnani) and with the likelyhood of a guy like Patrick O'Bryant or Cedric Simmons falling to #16 being close to zero, it seems as though the big 2 guard issue will be addressed with the #16 pick.

Thabo Sefolosha is being tabbed by some as the best available to fill our needs at that point in the draft but all I've gathered from scouting reports is that:

a. He's a tall guard (6'6" or so)
b. He plays defense


I feel like I know something about most of the projected 1st rounders with the exception of Sefolosha. He's likely to be on the board at 16 when we pick... can anybody give anymore information on Sefolosha? Has anyone actually seen him play? Would this be a good pick?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*

I think its going to come down to him or Sene in the warroom tonight, hopefully they go with Sene, but I wouldn't be dissapointed with Thabo, he looks like a good player.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*



Dornado said:


> With Chad Ford reporting that the Bulls have narrowed their choice at #2 to the three bigs (Aldridge, Thomas, Bargnani) and with the likelyhood of a guy like Patrick O'Bryant or Cedric Simmons falling to #16 being close to zero, it seems as though the big 2 guard issue will be addressed with the #16 pick.
> 
> Thabo Sefolosha is being tabbed by some as the best available to fill our needs at that point in the draft but all I've gathered from scouting reports is that:
> 
> ...


I've seen him play a couple of times. High energy, handles the ball well, good passer could probably play both guard spots, slashes and can get to the basket, good on the ball skills, solid defender but can be overpowered. His biggest concern is his shot, he needs to work on it and develop more range.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*



> I've seen him play a couple of times. High energy, handles the ball well, good passer could probably play both guard spots, slashes and can get to the basket, good on the ball skills, solid defender but can be overpowered. His biggest concern is his shot, he needs to work on it and develop more range.


Thanks Ace. Any idea how athletic he is?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*



Dornado said:


> Thanks Ace. Any idea how athletic he is?



Very atheletic, a bit thin, he needs to add some muscle for NBA probably.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*

Apparently he's able to defend 1-3 and can even play some PG. Poor to below average outside shot, heck of a rebounder and good defender is everything that I've gathered on him. He's my guy at #16 assuming Carney and Brewer don't drop. At #2 we're going big which translates to project. We need to come out of this draft with someone that can contribute immediately and fill a hole. Thabo can satisfy that defensive wing role and coexist with Gordon.


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## Qwerty123 (May 31, 2002)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*



ace20004u said:


> I've seen him play a couple of times. High energy, handles the ball well, good passer could probably play both guard spots, slashes and can get to the basket, good on the ball skills, solid defender but can be overpowered. His biggest concern is his shot, he needs to work on it and develop more range.


From what I've read, it sounds like he's not very aggressive on the offensive end, but that might be due to being surrounded by more offensive-minded teammates.

Do you think that's a product of the circumstances or do you think he just isn't gifted enough offensively? I'd like to see someone in our eventual guard triumvirate take it strong to the hole and either finish above the rim or draw the foul. Do you think he can do that?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*



Qwerty123 said:


> From what I've read, it sounds like he's not very aggressive on the offensive end, but that might be due to being surrounded by more offensive-minded teammates.
> 
> Do you think that's a product of the circumstances or do you think he just isn't gifted enough offensively? I'd like to see someone in our eventual guard triumvirate take it strong to the hole and either finish above the rim or draw the foul. Do you think he can do that?



Ok I have only seen this guy play like twice so it's a little sketchy. He isn't especially aggressive, he tends to defer to his teamates but I think that has to do with style of play rather than an innability to play aggressively, he is a pretty aggressive defender at times. He definitley can take it strong to the hole and finish at the rim against euro competetion.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*



ace20004u said:


> Ok I have only seen this guy play like twice so it's a little sketchy. He isn't especially aggressive, he tends to defer to his teamates but I think that has to do with style of play rather than an innability to play aggressively, he is a pretty aggressive defender at times. He definitley can take it strong to the hole and finish at the rim against euro competetion.



So, that makes him akin to a certain French man who bombed in Atlanta but got his second wind somewhere in Arizona alongside a certain Canadian MVP???


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*



Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! said:


> So, that makes him akin to a certain French man who bombed in Atlanta but got his second wind somewhere in Arizona alongside a certain Canadian MVP???



That might be a fair comparison. Diaw is stronger and more versatile but they do have some similiarities at times. Honestly, Trenton Hassell with more hops might not be a bad comparison either.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*

so basically this guy is the next Jiri Welsch ?


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## Qwerty123 (May 31, 2002)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*

Thanks, ace.

FYI, Youtube has 1 video of him. Nice little dunk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ZkWHzR8O0&search=sefolosha


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*



mr.ankle20 said:


> so basically this guy is the next Jiri Welsch ?



Jiri Welsch isn't as good a defender, isn't as atheletic, and Sefolosha isn't as good a shooter as Welsch, who believe it or not actually has a good stroke.


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## BullFan16 (Jun 2, 2003)

*Thabo a bull*

bulls trade for sefelosha...i cant even spell it....i hope hes ready to play


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: Thabo Sefolosha*

I guess that's why this thread was started


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Guy sounds like a slightly smaller Diaw to me.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Guys were willing to draft Bargnani with the 2 pick on highlight reel clips and scouting reports, but Pax goes and gets this guy and people are upset. For Pax to trade up for this guy when he knew either Brewer or Carney would be available is saying Pax thinks this guy is special. There is now someting to be said for these players who come out of Eurpoe. They are more fundementally sound and mature than the young guys coming from the NCAA. Think Diaw. Think Tony Parker. Pax has done well the past few years with almost every pick he has had. If you look at reports, this guy looks special.

I have faith in Pax. Believe people. I get a feeling he will be solid.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

I am feeling alot better about aquiring Thabo when knowing that Phoenix wanted him and when he was taken, the Suns pulled out of the draft.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

How is Thabo better then Ronnie Brewer?


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> How is Thabo better then Ronnie Brewer?


Better shooter? Also, Sam Smith was saying he is an even better defender.

Honestly, I don't know much about him, but I have to TRUST that Pax and his guys have done their work and know he's a player.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

laso said:


> Better shooter? Also, Sam Smith was saying he is an even better defender.
> 
> Honestly, I don't know much about him, but I have to TRUST that Pax and his guys have done their work and know he's a player.


Hows he a much better defender, Ronnie Brewer was playing solid great defence in College while Thabo was doing whatever he was doing in Switzerland. Well as much as I am dissapointed in this draft I just pray that both Thomas and Thabo are going to be very good rookies.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> How is Thabo better then Ronnie Brewer?


Draft express saw him go through a tough workout and they're very detailed in their reports. It sounds like Thabo is VERY similar to Brewer; nearly identical size and length. There seems to be no question that Thabo is a better shooter (perhaps this is what Pax liked over Brewer). From everything I personally know, it sounds like Thabo doesn't have any major holes in his game and has a super work ethic. I hope to learn more about him in the coming weeks.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Hows he a much better defender, Ronnie Brewer was playing solid great defence in College while Thabo was doing whatever he was doing in Switzerland. Well as much as I am dissapointed in this draft I just pray that both Thomas and Thabo are going to be very good rookies.



Biz,

He was playing in ITALY.

In his individual workouts he shut down Brewer and Carney and gave Roy fits. Guy can play. Utah, Phoenix wanted him bad. This was a good pick. His outside shot is not bad, it's just not at the NBA 3 pt range (not uncommon for most guys). He's a better version of Brewer. Also, it's possible Brewer wouldn't have been there for us regardless.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Roy seemed to be impressed by Thabo when the two worked out together: 



> “He’s a really good player,” Roy said. “He’s quick, but he’s crafty. He kind of has this slow dribble, then he kind of explodes. He’s extremely long. His wingspan is very long.”


Daily Herald


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

chifaninca said:


> In his individual workouts he shut down Brewer and Carney and gave Roy fits. Guy can play. Utah, Phoenix wanted him bad. This was a good pick. His outside shot is not bad, it's just not at the NBA 3 pt range (not uncommon for most guys). He's a better version of Brewer. Also, it's possible Brewer wouldn't have been there for us regardless.


That's encouraging news, especially since defense was/is his supposed calling card. Thabo will probably be chasing around Lebron for the next decade. More and more I like this pick and also like the fact that Pax traded up to get 'his guy'.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I love the Thabo pick. This kid just seems hungry, and his improvement over the past couple years has apparently been sensational. Watch out. I really get a Manu Ginobili type feeling about him.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I love the Thabo pick. This kid just seems hungry, and his improvement over the past couple years has apparently been sensational. Watch out. I really get a Manu Ginobili type feeling about him.


Agreed. Jiri Welsch he is not. He won't drop 25 a night, but whoever said he will be chasing LeBron around for the next decade hit it right on the head. In two years if we have a lineup featuring...

Ben Gordon
Thabo(we should go Would Cup style and drop the Sefol-whatever)
Nocioni
Tyrus
Nene

Hinrich
Deng
Chandler

off the bench

Where can I sign up for that...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Hinrich off the bench?

Draft fever strikes again.  

Off to bed with me....


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Nbadraft.net's NBA comparison for Thabo Sefolosha is Reece Gaines.


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Hows he a much better defender, Ronnie Brewer was playing solid great defence in College while Thabo was doing whatever he was doing in Switzerland. Well as much as I am dissapointed in this draft I just pray that both Thomas and Thabo are going to be very good rookies.


I'm just quoting Sam Smith my man. In his draft evaluation, he reiterates the point calling Thabo the "best wing defender" in the draft. If you have an issue with that, take it to Sam. 

Let's just assume Sam's info is credible. That he is getting it from a Bulls insider (which is likely). Doesn't this make you feel good? You like Brewer's defense, but this guy is an even better defender than Brewer according to scouts. Man, that fills a need right there, doesn't it. We can now put Thabo on Lebron (as well as Luol and Andres at times).


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

GB said:


> Hinrich off the bench?
> 
> Draft fever strikes again.
> 
> Off to bed with me....


Perhaps I got caught up in speculation. By the way I guarantee you that the player most likely to turn out like Reece Gaines in this draft is Ronnie Brewer. We had to trade up to steal him away from Utah (who ended up SETTLING for Brewer) and D'Antoni said that the Suns pulled out of the draft when the guys they wanted were gone. It appears credible one of those guys was Thabo.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Guy sounds like a slightly smaller Diaw to me.


He wouldn't appear to be anywhere close to Diaw when it comes to playmaking, which is what makes Diaw such a tough player to account for.

I'm not saying I favor Brewer over him by a mile, but I think that Brewer has a better offensive upside and could have done just as good a job on the defensive end. He certainly can't be a worse athlete than Sefolosha.

I also liked the fact that Brewer could competently run the point for a few minutes every game. That doesn't seem to be the case with Thabo. Both are going to need a lot of work to extend their game to the NBA 3-point stripe. 

I think what we're looking at with Thabo's ceiling is (hopefully) a slightly more athletic and offensively capable Bruce Bowen. That's a fantastic player. But I think Brewer can give you comparable defense with more options on the other end, which we desperately need with our Thomas/Chandler/Przybilla frontcourt.

I can't think of a better place for Brewer to have landed, though. That is a nice backcourt.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> He wouldn't appear to be anywhere close to Diaw when it comes to playmaking, which is what makes Diaw such a tough player to account for.
> 
> I'm not saying I favor Brewer over him by a mile, but I think that Brewer has a better offensive upside and could have done just as good a job on the defensive end. He certainly can't be a worse athlete than Sefolosha.
> 
> ...


I've never seen Thabo play so this is all pretty uniformed. I think a more apt comparison than Bowen is Doug Christie because Thabo is supposed to be able to handle the ball some. 

I fell in love with Brewer's measurements too. However the few times I wathed him play at Arkansas, he did not strike me as a great athlete. I think everyone was shocked by his performance in the drills which leads me to believe that he's one of those guys who doesn't play to their test scores.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

If someone's thought of this before me, I apologize, but after looking at their European stats and reading their capsules I think I've come up with the perfect comp for Sefolosha:

Mickeal Pietrus.

Very similar size, very similar athleticism, very similar limitations, very similar reputation for great defense.

If Sefolosha is as nice a guy and as coachable as people say, we'll be able to get more out of him that GS has Pietrus. Pietrus is so woefully undisciplined on offense that he hasn't been able to seize a starting job from the dreadful Mike Dunleavy, Jr.

In any case, I think Sefolosha is a bit of a project, and I think that like Pietrus he's going to realize that his old league may have been the NBA's peer (or even superior) in terms of the skill level, but it's another level in terms of the athleticism.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

I don't understand why you're comparing him to players with bad handles. Here's Skiles talking about Thabo: 



> "He can do some ballhandling and allow Ben and Kirk to play off the ball," Skiles said.


Trib


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> I don't understand why you're comparing him to players with bad handles. Here's Skiles talking about Thabo:
> 
> 
> 
> Trib


Virtually every scouting report rates his ballhandling as something that needs work and is not up to par for his projected NBA position.

I'll buy you a nice, tall lemonade the first time Skiles has Thabo run the point this year.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> Virtually every scouting report rates his ballhandling as something that needs work and is not up to par for his projected NBA position.
> 
> I'll buy you a nice, tall lemonade the first time Skiles has Thabo run the point this year.


That appears to be an observation that comes from his performance in the Italian league last season. Supposedly he had a great handle in individual workouts. I'm not sure whether that means he's getting better or he looks better outside the context of a 5 on 5 game. I'm hopeful it's the former.


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> I'll buy you a nice, tall lemonade the first time Skiles has Thabo run the point this year.


Draft Express complimented his ballhandling and Skiles made the quote. Things seem to suggest he is at least capable of handling the ball. What do you know that they don't?


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Virtually every scouting report rates his ballhandling as something that needs work and is not up to par for his projected NBA position.
> 
> I'll buy you a nice, tall lemonade the first time Skiles has Thabo run the point this year.


The scouting reports mention good ball handling, although draftexpress ambiguously also mentions bad ball handling.

"He is a good ball-handler with either hand with experience at point guard at the junior levels" ... "his ball-handling will have to improve"

draftexpress 

"Really excels handling the ball"

nbadraft.net


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Virtually every scouting report rates his ballhandling as something that needs work and is not up to par for his projected NBA position.
> 
> I'll buy you a nice, tall lemonade the first time Skiles has Thabo run the point this year.


http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1330

I know it's Draftexpress... but: 



> In terms of ball-handling, Thabo blew everybody in the gym away with his control over the ball. In one particular drill, the players were asked to dribble the ball like they were being pressured up the court. Here, Thabo used his superb length and feel to cross the ball over swiftly from side to side with one hand from just a few inches off the ground, often tapping it twice quickly in the same spot for good measure to further confuse his imaginary defender. Not only was it fancy dribbling, this is the type of useful move that will be very hard for defenders to stop, since it’s just not something you are used to seeing a 6-7 player execute, especially when talking about a player with his quickness and footwork.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> Virtually every scouting report rates his ballhandling as something that needs work and is not up to par for his projected NBA position.


http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/thabosefolosha.html



> Strengths: Has improved considerably in the past year ... A catch and shoot guy ... His offensive game has made great strides, last year he could barely shoot, and now he appears much more confident ... The Italian team he plays for runs a wide open offense which has really helped his game ... Extremely long limbs ... Since adding 10-15 pounds in the past year, he is less afraid of playing physical ... *His ball handling and passing ability are his strengths ... Really excels handling the ball ...* His defense has improved, always looking for steals, and quickly turns them into fast break opportunities ... Attacks the rim well with excellent leaping ability and body control ...


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

holy concurrence!


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Draft Express (under weaknesses):

His ball-handling will have to improve a bit to maintain this in the NBA, as his first step is not quite as explosive as most NBA shooting guards. He’s a fine all-around athlete, but is nowhere near the caliber of most elite NBA SG’s, being more similar to a Rip Hamilton or Brandon Roy in this area. He looks a bit out of control at times driving to the basket in traffic, and could clearly stand to add a consistent pull-up jumper to help him avoid these types of situations. 

Scouts Inc.

He has good ability to come off downscreens and make shots and is tough to deal with in the open court. Because most of his jumpers came off ball-reversals and spot-ups, he needs to work on his ball-handling, especially shooting the ball off of the dribble. NBA teams could also utilize Sefolosha as a post-up wing, making him a tough player to guard. 

The reports on his shooting are all over the map, which I find odd as that is probably the easiest thing to rate about a player.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Horrible.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Mr. T said:


> Draft Express complimented his ballhandling and Skiles made the quote. Things seem to suggest he is at least capable of handling the ball. What do you know that they don't?


Look up some of the things Skiles and Draft Express said about Eddie Basden.

When Skiles has Thabo run the point in actual NBA games that he's trying to win, I'll happily eat crow. Until then, let's just enjoy the fact that we've landed the next Jerry West and focus on how to round out the team in free agency.


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> Look up some of the things Skiles and Draft Express said about Eddie Basden.
> 
> When Skiles has Thabo run the point in actual NBA games that he's trying to win, I'll happily eat crow. Until then, let's just enjoy the fact that we've landed the next Jerry West and focus on how to round out the team in free agency.


I guess I really didn't read into what Skiles said that much and I don't expect him to be running the point per se.

I just took it at face value that the guy is competent enough that he won't be forced to play off the ball all the time. Maybe it's just Skiles way of saying he's not a liability handling the ball meaning Ben and Kirk won't have to have fulltime ballhandling responsibilities when he's in the game.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Thabo is listed at 6' 5" on bulls.com, 6' 6" on nbadraft.net, and 6' 7" on draftexpress.com. How tall is he?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

some thabo videos on youtube (thanks to sephcast at realgm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1WByiOHzMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90eITq0pfuE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4n0ocoa8lU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LZvjqIgMfo


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Those few youtube clips should be very scary for Bulls fans expecting an offensive contribution out of this young guy. His release is frightfully slow. Reminds me of a smaller Marcus Camby.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

I think the Bulls are making a mistake. They need guys who can contribute now. I think they need to stop picking young players (they have enough) and turn some of those picks along with maybe one young player already on the team for a star.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

adarsh1 said:


> I think the Bulls are making a mistake. They need guys who can contribute now. I think they need to stop picking young players (they have enough) and turn some of those picks along with maybe one young player already on the team for a star.


I think that is the plan. Packaging some these young guys for a star is on John Paxon's mind right now for sure.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

you take good players whether they are young or old and thats what Pax did.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

from the videos i've seen of this kid he looks like he's going to be a stud in thei league, he's defintly a better pick than Tyrus.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Does Thabo remind you of any particular player?
> 
> Skiles: “When we first saw him, Doug Christie came to mind a little bit with his hands and length and the way that he plays.”


Hey...thats ok.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Actually his stroke reminds me of old Toni Kukoc's. A little bit of both hands action.

If his jumper is at least as effective as Toni's, he is good.


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