# Source: Lee out of New York



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Just fulfilling Basel's duties...

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60223/20090630/source_lee_leaving_new_york/



> A source told Ken Berger that he believes David Lee's days as a Knick are over. Agent Mark Bartelstein will reportedly have Lee sign an offer sheet with the Grizzlies or Thunder that the Knicks will not be willing to match.
> 
> "It's a tough loss for New York, but they don't want to screw up their 2010 plan," the source said.


Thoughts? I think it'd be sweet if the Thunder could pick him up.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

A front court of Lee and Krstic? They must want to be the worst defensive team ever.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

urwhatueati8god said:


> A front court of Lee and Krstic? They must want to be the worst defensive team ever.


Naws, I think they're going to go with Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Green, Lee. Green + Lee would be a decent frontcourt provided Green stays in the paint since he can block more shots than Lee.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

What can you guys see the Knicks getting in return from both teams? From the Thunder, I would want at least Nick Collison, Earl Watson and a draft pick. The Grizzlies are a tricky trade because they do not have much bench depth. Since they drafted Thabeet, however, that means Marc Gasol shifts to the bench and is certainly a player that can help our team. Marc Gasol and draft picks for Lee works for me. Maybe we can expand the deal to include Eddy Curry in exchange for a trade exception. David Lee and Eddy Curry for Marc Gasol, Greg Bucker, 2 2nd rounders and cash works for me.


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## Daniels (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd guess that you're asking far too steep a price there twinkie. And you don't have a ton of leverage.


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## Kiyaman2 (May 31, 2009)

*This is real real bad for the Knicks future growth as a decent winning team while rebuilding the next 3 seasons (letting David Lee go to the next team).* 

Alot of members wondered why I was so angry & upset last offseason when we made no trades on draft night or through the offseason, and refuse to extend the contracts of the two most wanted players asked for in trades on the team. 

We draft a great product with our 8th pick on draft night (6.10 Jordan Hill) inwhich a player like David Lee work-ethics at C/F would help him to become a contributor player to the team after his rookie season, rather than wait 3 to 4 season for 6.10 Hill to get familar to the NBA level of B-Ball (by guessing his every oponent). 

Should Denver trade Billups this offseason after getting the best PG in the NCAA? 

Should G.S. trade combo-Ellis after getting the best combo-Curry in the ACC? 

Do any Knick-Fan think that the Clippers Dunleavy should trade 20-10 stat performance Zach Randolph this season before letting rookie Blake Griffin see how Zach gets his 20-10 stats each game vs all the NBA oponents?


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

No surprise there, I knew he was going to be out the door. BTW I'm not crying over it either, so long Lee.

Edit:


> Try to avoid getting too caught up in the speculation involving David Lee. Yes, the Carlos Boozer situation does change the game some because the Pistons had him on their list and perhaps will now set their sights on Lee.
> 
> But keep in mind Paul Millsap, as a result of Boozer's decision to stay for one more year in Utah, may shake free and be another alternative for the Pistons. As for the notion that the Grizzlies and Thunder could blow the Knicks away with the offer, consider two things: 1. do you really expect these teams to throw $10M per at David Lee? 2. do you really expect Lee to leave the New York market for Memphis or Oklahoma City?
> 
> ...


http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/blog/


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Lee is not worth more than 6-7 mil a season ...if the thunder want to give him 10+ more power to him and them but in the end when and if they become winners he will be a bench player for them because players like him dont start for winners.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

other players have went and chased after the money..... I cant be mad at lee for doing the same.


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## GrizzPimp (May 12, 2004)

TwinkieFoot said:


> What can you guys see the Knicks getting in return from both teams? From the Thunder, I would want at least Nick Collison, Earl Watson and a draft pick. The Grizzlies are a tricky trade because they do not have much bench depth. Since they drafted Thabeet, however, that means Marc Gasol shifts to the bench and is certainly a player that can help our team. Marc Gasol and draft picks for Lee works for me. Maybe we can expand the deal to include Eddy Curry in exchange for a trade exception. David Lee and Eddy Curry for Marc Gasol, Greg Bucker, 2 2nd rounders and cash works for me.


Nothing if you don't match the offer by the GRIZZ or the thunder, he's a restricted free agent. The GRIZZ & the thunder neither need a sign and trade since we've both got plenty of cap room. One source says you gonna offer him...

Source: Knicks Will Offer Lee $32M Over Four Years


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

as one looks over the free agent market there are roughly 5 teams with cap space(8 or more mil.) and 9 real free agent targets and i mean by that (hedo, charlie V, milsap, ben gordon , iverson , kidd, lee rasheed and andre miller) and that is not counting nate who could also get some team into paying him more than the mle.

the knicks have really good shot of keeping lee with their impending offer of 4 yrs 32 mil.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60243/20090701/source_knicks_will_offer_lee_$32m_over_four_years/


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> What can you guys see the Knicks getting in return from both teams? From the Thunder, I would want at least Nick Collison, Earl Watson and a draft pick. The Grizzlies are a tricky trade because they do not have much bench depth. Since they drafted Thabeet, however, that means Marc Gasol shifts to the bench and is certainly a player that can help our team. Marc Gasol and draft picks for Lee works for me. Maybe we can expand the deal to include Eddy Curry in exchange for a trade exception. David Lee and Eddy Curry for Marc Gasol, Greg Bucker, 2 2nd rounders and cash works for me.


you would get nothing in return.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

sign and trade david lee to get jason kidd?


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## Kiyaman2 (May 31, 2009)

Looking at all the starting PF in the league the last two seasons, and all the top contender teams that could use the services of David Lee, makes me real angry (upset) when I read a Knick-Fan write David Lee is worth $6M or $7M. 

David Lee would actually average 30 mpg on the Celtics (we better hope like hell the Celtics dont pull off some em to get Lee this offseason).....Lee may not be worth the $15M bracket in the league b/c he was drafted by a confused Knick organization who only had one decent bigman (Dale Davis) since Lee was drafted to tandem with in the frontcourt. 

But for anyone to think that David Lee is not worth $9M to $12M his 5th season in the NBA need to only watch college ball and Euro-League B-Ball (semi-pro). Earning $10M per in the NBA is not All-Star or Star status but it is Horry, Ginobli, Odom, Prince, Richard Jefferson, and that guy Larry Hughes on the Wizards between Jamison & Arenas, which is the middle man to boost the team to the next level. 

How many strong rebounding Bigmen did Duncan have in his rotation for each of his Championship Rings? KG would still be in Minny if Dum Dum Mchale would've drafted David Lee. 

The Knicks finally drafts another Bigman that can rebound alongside of David Lee & Chandler to give Knick opositions just "one shot" at the basket, and all u silly 2010 Fans dont think the top "double double" player last season dont deserve half of the salary that Amare & Bosh will demand. 

Well, if we lose David Lee and all our oponents have 2 and 3 chances to make a shot this season and in the 2010-11 season b/c we were not able to convince a rebounder to sign for $15M it will be on all u so-call Fan Favorites dont know the value of NBA B-Ball.....u all are willing to give Amare & Bosh $20M, but not Lee $10M. 

*U so-call Knick-Fans Disgust a hard nose 40 year Knick-Fan (Kiya)...*


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

The Knicks should keep David Lee, he would be a nice compliment to a big man that can create his own shot inside (Eddy Curry) he is a great energy player, who rebounds, hustles and plays hard. He would be great on any team. As a Nets fan I would take him if y'all dont want him. Lopez/Lee frontcourt would be fantastic.


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## Kiyaman2 (May 31, 2009)

It is very confusing to the point of baffle..... 

which bothers me about so many members on this board. 
I just dont see any 2010 star FA wanting to go to a gutted team. 

We have 3 players (Lee, Chandler, and Nate) on our roster now that we all should know their talent would make a star player be able to perform at the next level. 

We can not say that about Eddy Curry, Jefferies, Harrington, Larry Hughes, or Darko.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I really think that Lee is going to end up taking the qualifying offer and staying in NY this year. Nate will get a share of the MLE from someone, though.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Kiyaman2 said:


> It is very confusing to the point of baffle.....
> 
> which bothers me about so many members on this board.
> I just dont see any 2010 star FA wanting to go to a gutted team.
> ...


David Lee can rebound at a torrid pace (16th in the league in offensive rebounding percentage, 5th in defensive, 7th overall). His offensive game is relatively solid with a .549 field goal percentage, good for seventh in the league amongst qualified players. He was eight in the league in offensive rating according to basketball-reference.com. That's where the positives end. He can't block shots for anything, he cannot play help defense, and he can't man up. Despite all of this, he might be an iota underrated as a defender. Still, his productivity doesn't offset his defensive abilities enough to make him a "star player." He's not in the top 35 in terms of P.E.R. and he likely won't crack that mark in his career. He's a second tier player on a fringe playoff team at best and third tier player on a contender at best. The same thing goes for Nate Robinson.

Wilson Chandler is heavily overrated as a player. His offensive skill set isn't as good as many make it out to be. He has his one offensive move which is drive through the lane with the right hand. There's no juke move, crossover, spin move, no ability to confuse a defender on the drive whatsoever. He might be able to establish a more refined shooting touch which would allow him to be a Stephen Jackson type player at best. He's the third best option on a fringe playoff team at best and a fourth tier player on a championship contender and that's the best he'll ever be. I would have no problem with him being thrown in with a deal to get rid of the salary of Eddy Curry or Jared Jeffries.

All of these players are inflated by playing in the New York market where their exposure is increased. They've also got inflated value by playing in a system where the increased pace (96.7 possessions per 48 minutes, second fastest in the league) tailors towards their numbers looking greater than they actually are. Because of this, they are all going to command higher valued contracts than they are worth. This is starting to manifest itself with David Lee's agent Mark Bartelstein asking for ten million a year. The Knicks could easily do this if they already had their legit number one and number two options secured under contract, but they don't and signing these players would omit their ability to do so. If they can be retained on the cheap (the qualifying offer), then retain them. If they are asking for the deals like Lee is asking for, then they must be either re-signed in a sign and trade for cap flexibility or simply non-tendered to the opposing team.

The most recent example of a team that was in the Knicks situation is the Chicago Bulls. They city fell in love with their "star players" and the likes of Luol Deng, Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, etc. and almost got stuck down a road of ineptitude for some time. They were fortunate enough to get extremely lucky in the draft last year and land the star player, but had they not done so, they would have been in the same exact situation the Knicks would find themselves in should they re-sign Lee and Robinson.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

urwhatueati8god said:


> David Lee can rebound at a torrid pace (16th in the league in offensive rebounding percentage, 5th in defensive, 7th overall). His offensive game is relatively solid with a .549 field goal percentage, good for seventh in the league amongst qualified players. He was eight in the league in offensive rating according to basketball-reference.com. That's where the positives end. He can't block shots for anything, he cannot play help defense, and he can't man up. Despite all of this, he might be an iota underrated as a defender. Still, his productivity doesn't offset his defensive abilities enough to make him a "star player." He's not in the top 35 in terms of P.E.R. and he likely won't crack that mark in his career. He's a second tier player on a fringe playoff team at best and third tier player on a contender at best. The same thing goes for Nate Robinson.
> 
> Wilson Chandler is heavily overrated as a player. His offensive skill set isn't as good as many make it out to be. He has his one offensive move which is drive through the lane with the right hand. There's no juke move, crossover, spin move, no ability to confuse a defender on the drive whatsoever. He might be able to establish a more refined shooting touch which would allow him to be a Stephen Jackson type player at best. He's the third best option on a fringe playoff team at best and a fourth tier player on a championship contender and that's the best he'll ever be. I would have no problem with him being thrown in with a deal to get rid of the salary of Eddy Curry or Jared Jeffries.
> 
> ...


Well said. I can't say anything else but that I completely agree.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman2 said:


> Looking at all the starting PF in the league the last two seasons, and all the top contender teams that could use the services of David Lee, makes me real angry (upset) when I read a Knick-Fan write David Lee is worth $6M or $7M.
> 
> *David Lee would actually average 30 mpg on the Celtics (we better hope like hell the Celtics dont pull off some em to get Lee this offseason).....*Lee may not be worth the $15M bracket in the league b/c he was drafted by a confused Knick organization who only had one decent bigman (Dale Davis) since Lee was drafted to tandem with in the frontcourt.


Yeah, because David Lee certainly wouldn't be getting 30mpg behind Kevin Garnett, an actual all-star and one of the best PF's in the entire league. Lee might not be worth the $15 million bracket because he's not a $15 million per year talent, plain and simple. There are only 25 players in the league making that (or more) and Lee does not provide any of the things on the floor that they do. P.S., *Dale Davis *also was never on the Knicks, Antonio Davis was but I guess he wasn't that good for you to remember his name. The rest of the league probably felt the same way since that was the last season he would play.



Kiyaman2 said:


> But for anyone to think that David Lee is not worth $9M to $12M his 5th season in the NBA need to only watch college ball and Euro-League B-Ball (semi-pro). Earning $10M per in the NBA is not All-Star or Star status but it is Horry, Ginobli, Odom, Prince, Richard Jefferson, and that guy Larry Hughes on the Wizards between Jamison & Arenas, which is the middle man to boost the team to the next level.
> 
> How many strong rebounding Bigmen did Duncan have in his rotation for each of his Championship Rings? KG would still be in Minny if Dum Dum Mchale would've drafted David Lee.


The Wolves didn't have a draft pick to use on David Lee that late in the draft. Also, none of the aforementioned players you mentioned on your list that were $10 million per year eligible were staters. Horry never came close to making that per year in his NBA career and that likely had to do with him being a fringe starter..... like David Lee. In fact, Horry never made much more than $6 million in his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horryro01.html



Kiyaman2 said:


> The Knicks finally drafts another Bigman that can rebound alongside of David Lee & Chandler to give Knick opositions just "one shot" at the basket, and all u silly 2010 Fans dont think the top "double double" player last season dont deserve half of the salary that Amare & Bosh will demand.
> 
> Well, if we lose David Lee and all our oponents have 2 and 3 chances to make a shot this season and in the 2010-11 season b/c we were not able to convince a rebounder to sign for $15M it will be on all u so-call Fan Favorites dont know the value of NBA B-Ball.....u all are willing to give Amare & Bosh $20M, but not Lee $10M.
> 
> *U so-call Knick-Fans Disgust a hard nose 40 year Knick-Fan (Kiya)...*


Lee doesn't deserve Amare and Bosh's paygrade because he can't score and therefore does not change teams strategies. The Knicks have been a pretty good rebounding team the past few seasons (especially with Randolph and Quentin Richardson), and that didn't stop opposing teams from winning basketball games. You believe a rookie will? 


P.S., when did anyone suggest giving Amare or Bosh $20 million? Please submit to me some evidence of that because I am absolutely sure not a single soul, here or in the media, has suggested that they would be getting that from us. If they did, then there really would be no point in looking to clear further cap space since we would only be able to sign one player at that paygrade.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

TwinkieFoot said:


> P.S., when did anyone suggest giving Amare or Bosh $20 million? Please submit to me some evidence of that because I am absolutely sure not a single soul, here or in the media, has suggested that they would be getting that from us. If they did, then there really would be no point in looking to clear further cap space since we would only be able to sign one player at that paygrade.


The maximum that either could collect would be $16,509,600 according to this year's salary cap rules and that's likely to decrease over the next two years given the economy. They will not be making 20 million dollars. I'm of the opinion that if they plan on giving Stoudemire that kind of money than they'd be better pressed to just re-sign David Lee for 10 million. I've always been of the opinion that he's been highly overrated as a player and isn't worth max contract kind of money. Their numbers aren't really that far apart to say that Stoudemire will be 6.5 million dollars better than Lee. Furthermore, he's had microfracture surgery on his knee and there hasn't been a single player in the league who has outlasted that and his numbers dropped considerably last year once the D'Antoni system was taken out. Should he rebound next year, then it might be justifiable, but otherwise no. I can see Bosh getting that kind of money and being worth it, but if they go after Stoudemire if he plays next season with the same type of zeal as he did this season, I'll be disappointed.


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