# KG vs. Michael Jordan



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Someone noted in a recent thread (I think it was VFlog or TRUTHHURTS) that no one brings game every single night like Jordan did, and that the plays Jordan made were literally like what this era's NBA would consider uber-highlights.

But I think KG is the same way, honestly. He's approaching that level.

I think Jordan at 27 was better than KG at 27, but I'd say that Jordan didn't get THAT much better later in his career... the stats tell a different story but Jordan basically just adapted his game. He didn't "get better".

Garnett is still "getting better". That's the thing that's totally nuts.

I had this argument with my friend, but there's basically no player that's like Garnett in the NBA. He can do ANYTHING, and he's got the work ethic and personality to match his incredible talent.

Yeah, the Big O was the living triple double and all that, but Garnett... there is not a single thing on the basketball court that he cannot do at an All-Star level.

KG's worst game this year was 19, 7 and 6 on 7-20 shooting, and I think that was mostly because YAO MING was guarding him, another candidate for most dominant NBA player in the year 2006.

Does anyone think that KG can be as good as Jordan? Obviously different TYPES of players, but maybe just in terms of "greatness"?

And let's say KG goes on to win a few rings, too. Maybe not six, because there's more parity in the NBA now than there was back then, but maybe like three or even four. I know rings mean a lot to some of yall.

Does anyone think that KG can be as "great" as MJ?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

KG hasn't won a playoff series yet.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> 
> And let's say KG goes on to win a few rings, too. Maybe not six, because there's more parity in the NBA now than there was back then, but maybe like three or even four. I know rings mean a lot to some of yall.
> 
> Does anyone think that KG can be as "great" as MJ?


So let's say he DOES win a few playoff series, like MANY.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

KG is not even the best player in the NBA. So the answer is no.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: KG vs. Michael Jordan*



> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> So let's say he DOES win a few playoff series, like MANY.


Wow. Let's project KG winning many rings based on what? The ability to put up great stats in many categories?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

We can't assume he will win playoff series'. They will probably go to the West finals this year but with Cassell and Spree's age I don't see a ring no time in the near future.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I view KG much like I view Jason Kidd. Franchise talents, All-NBA year in and year out, can do many things very well, and most importantly makes his teammates better.

The separation between KG and Michael Jordan (the greatest player ever) isn't a statistical analysis. I'm sure KG has one of the highest efficiency ratings in the history of the NBA, and probably better career-wise than MJ. 

In the end, its the ability to close games that separates these two. That's the stuff legends are made of. So before we anoint KG as the greatest ever, I'd like to see him taking the clutch shots and making the key decisions in crunch time to propel his team to playoff victory. As it stands, he hasn't done it yet for a full series. 

He can change things this season because Minny is the favorite.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Outstanding post SD. I could not agree more.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

It's a philosophical issue, then, in terms of the fact that MJ wins playoff games and KG does not do that yet. And I DO remember MJ. I do remember the amazing skill and talent and athleticism and grit and the way he ground out win after win.

But has there ever been a player like Garnett? 7-1 with incredible foot speed, quickness, athleticism.. basically the best defender in the league (better than Wallace or Artest because of his ability to play ANYONE). You KNOW that if KG were in Atlanta, Boston, or Milwaukee, he'd be worth 32 and 14. There's no doubt about it. He guards and plays any position, and is a constant mismatch. He lacks no heart or effort.

His ability to "close out games" or "win in the playoffs" is being tested at a similar point as Michael Jordan's own career. Now that he has the right surrounding cast, we will see a different, composed Wolves team. 

If he does prove to be a "winner", do you think it would have him approach the status of the greatest ever?

Listen, I know there's a lot of talented guys in the NBA. Guys that are more athletic than Jordan ever was, guys that even have more basketball IQ. But guys like KG come only once in a generation. You have to stop and take note, when it happens, and measure projectively, not only retrospectively.

Can KG become the greatest ever? Not just like ANYONE can become the greatest ever (NBADraft.net said DeShawn Stevenson's best NBA comparison was Michael Jordan; and does anyone remember Harold Miner, "Baby Jordan" himself?), not like Darius Miles or Lamar Odom had the ability to be incredibly insane players, but I mean like KG with what he's proven and with the direction he's heading.

I should know better than to have ANY thread that says "_____ vs. Jordan", but I was wondering about this. Without a "proof is in the pudding" type of defense, can you tell me speculatively if you think KG can near the greatness of MJ?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Okay, I will concede this much. There has never been a 7-1 player who can do what Kevin Garnett does. He is statistically speaking one of the most complete NBA players ever to lace up a pair of sneakers. Fine. 

Greatness is defined by winning, period. I will not jump into some philosophical debate about KG's greatness because quite simply, he hasn't won anything yet. Look at the laundry list of NBA players who'll go to sleep tonight without ever having a championship ring on account of Michael Jordan... Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, heck let's include Malone and Reggie Miller for arguments' sake.

To be the best you have to beat the best. I consider Tim Duncan a great player because he gave Shaq all he could handle in last season's championship run. I consider Shaq a great player because he dominating the competition for a decade and has 3 rings to show for it. Likewise, I will consider KG a great player when he can beat the best players, Shaq and Duncan are the first names that come to mind.

First things first, let's see if KG can get past the Denver Nuggets


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

If it were not all about winning and the question was who is the most physically gifted basketball player ever, the Jordan/Garnett comparison would be very intersting indeed. In some respects, KG is approaching the "Jordanlike." In others, he has an extremely long way to go.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I don't judge a player's greatness on winning... that's a far too simplistic approach IMO relies on too many factors outside of a single players' control.

Anyways, I think that KG has a _chance_ to be as great as Jordan, but I don't think it's very likely. Defensively, KG is already up there but offensively he just isn't explosive like Mike was and I don't know that he ever will be close to that level.

I don't know how my vote should be cast with this in mind, but no biggie either way 

Ed O.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

KG is probably the most complete player in the NBA today. He can score, pass, shoot, and defend at an All NBA level. I'd say that he and Duncan are the best players in the league today. However, I don't really view KG as a dominant player like I viewed Jordan. He has the ability to impact the game in many different ways but he's only dominant in one aspect of the game-defense. He's an incredibly tough and versatile defender. However, I question his ability to put a team on his back and carry it in a big spot. He's an excellent all-round offensive player but he doesn't really excel at anything. I'm sure you've all heard the phrase "jack off all trades and master of none". That is kind of how I view KG on offense. He can do everything well but I don't think he's the dominant scorer that Jordan was. MJ had the ability to put a team on his back and lead them to victory by putting the ball in the basket. I don't think KG could consistently do that. He has a chance to prove me wrong, though.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> Someone noted in a recent thread (I think it was VFlog or TRUTHHURTS) that no one brings game every single night like Jordan did, and that the plays Jordan made were literally like what this era's NBA would consider uber-highlights.


for the record, I can't claim this comment. I do agree with it though, and think it's what separates MJ by a wide margin from all of the players today who are nearly as gifted, but far less relentless (even Kobe). Garnett is close. He brings mountains of intensity every night and has an extraordinary skill set to match.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> If it were not all about winning and the question was who is the most physically gifted basketball player ever, the Jordan/Garnett comparison would be very intersting indeed. In some respects, KG is approaching the "Jordanlike." In others, he has an extremely long way to go.


It's funny,

When I look at KG I see "Jordan for 7 footers." Part of Jordan's greatness comes from championships, but he also changed the way the game is played. He created a whole aresenal of moves that this generation of NBA stars has began to develop. The turn around, the way he carries himself on the court--In the end, KG may be best known for adapting Jordan's game to a 7 footers frame. Theres a link...


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

wORST POOL EVER


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## bulls (Jan 1, 2004)

u cant judge somthing like this on what they can do you judge it by what they have done.

MJ won 6 rings and about 1000 other awards along with turning the nba upside down in just about everyway imaginable bridgeing oldschool with newschool in other words brought about a new era.

KG is a great player and will make his mark on the league but comparing KG to MJ is like comparing shaq to wilt there is no comparison.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> KG is probably the most complete player in the NBA today. He can score, pass, shoot, and defend at an All NBA level. I'd say that he and Duncan are the best players in the league today. However, I don't really view KG as a dominant player like I viewed Jordan. He has the ability to impact the game in many different ways but he's only dominant in one aspect of the game-defense. He's an incredibly tough and versatile defender. However, I question his ability to put a team on his back and carry it in a big spot. He's an excellent all-round offensive player but he doesn't really excel at anything. I'm sure you've all heard the phrase "jack off all trades and master of none". That is kind of how I view KG on offense. He can do everything well but I don't think he's the dominant scorer that Jordan was. MJ had the ability to put a team on his back and lead them to victory by putting the ball in the basket. I don't think KG could consistently do that. He has a chance to prove me wrong, though.


Excellent post. I agree with everything you said.

KG is extremely unique. A 7 footer who can play almost every position and can do almost everything WELL.

But Pinball is right on. Offensively he isn't dominant. There's no comparison to Jordan.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I believe that if the Bulls won their first championship in '91, and Jordan was born in '63, then he was 28 at the time. KG is 27 and still has the time to do what Michael did, and odds are he's not going to retire twice. Let's see if he can win one in the next two years.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JAF311</b>!
> 
> 
> Excellent post. I agree with everything you said.
> ...


Let me add to this, KG is an athletic 7 footer who can do everything. BUT KG does not have that ability to close out a game alone, he doesnt have the ability to hit the game winning shot almost at will. Lets get something straight here, KG is about 6'11 and is far more superior then any other PF out there cause of his overall skills. But IMO if MJ was 6'11 and had all the same skills as he did as a 6'6 sg, I see Jordan Averaging 50 ppg, Its a BIG IF, but if MJ had that same shot, the same athletic ability, and overall dominance as a 7 footer i dont see ANYONE and i mean ANYONE stoping Jordan. But Jordan is the greatest of all time, i dont see KG getting any better then he is right now.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> I believe that if the Bulls won their first championship in '91, and Jordan was born in '63, then he was 28 at the time. KG is 27 and still has the time to do what Michael did, and odds are he's not going to retire twice. Let's see if he can win one in the next two years.


LEts not forget i belive if Jordan did not retire twice Jordan is the All Time Scoring leader. He would be the shortest in the list of GIants thats impressive.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> LEts not forget i belive if Jordan did not retire twice Jordan is the All Time Scoring leader. He would be the shortest in the list of GIants thats impressive.


Look, I don't expect anyone I see now in the NBA to match Jordan, but Lebron and KG have a chance. They are transcendant talents. If not necessarily "Jordans," I think both have the potential to join the immortals of basketball: Larry, Magic, Michael, Wilt, Bill Russell, (Shaq?). Each will have to win some championships, but anyway I hope KG wins it this year because he is such a special basketball player and I hope he reaches that level because he has it in him, and he is so fun to watch.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Look, I don't expect anyone I see now in the NBA to match Jordan, but Lebron and KG have a chance. They are transcendant talents. If not necessarily "Jordans," I think both have the potential to join the immortals of basketball: Larry, Magic, Michael, Wilt, Bill Russell, (Shaq?). Each will have to win some championships, but anyway I hope KG wins it this year because he is such a special basketball player and I hope he reaches that level because he has it in him, and he is so fun to watch.


I hope he wins it too. I think KG is one of those guys that's basically the best player in the league as of right now but might not have the winning team, in the end.

The reason this entire thread was invented (in my head) was because of a discussion about how Jermaine O'Neal basically wrapped up the MVP award for the Indiana Pacers, the NBA's regular-season wins leader. But I would say that Jermaine has talents around him that may near or equal the talents around KG. Ron Artest and Al Harrington are just straight up studs. Minny, sans Kandi and Wally and Troy to injuries, basically were resting on Cassell and Spree. Artest + Harrington is very near to Cassell + Spree in basketball makeup.

The rest of the teams are a wash. The Timberwolves are the best team in the WEST, while the Pacers are the best team in the EAST (and overall, but playing in the EC). This makes the T'Wolves that much better than the Pacers, because they won so many games in much tougher competition.

So it really should be KG, I think, although Jermaine is the main piece in the best team in the NBA. But without KG, the Wolves would fall short of the playofs. They aren't as good as Utah, even, I'd say.

Anyway. Whatever. I don't think KG will catch up to Jordan, but I think he has the potential to do so, and I think we'll see a Kevin Garnett that completely DOES dominate on both ends of the floor. During this intermittent stage while LeBron and Yao continue to reach their primes, KG will reign as the greatest player in professional basketball.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> 
> 
> I hope he wins it too. I think KG is one of those guys that's basically the best player in the league as of right now but might not have the winning team, in the end.
> ...


Tonight's game saw KG not taking one of the last few shots. I wonder why not. I guess it worked out, but it's not like Jordan where the ball was going to go through him no matter what. I guess it's a little bit different with a big man.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*The real question....*

Is Garnett a bigger, better Pippen?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

KG isn't even clearly better than his conterporary, Tim Duncan.
KG gets so much hype, but what has he done? Put up nice numbers in the regular season? There's no reason to think he will ever win a championship with his style of play. Tonight, who was it that hit the big shots? Cassell and Spreewell. KG turned the ball over when it was his turn.

I still don't rate him above Tim Duncan. Last year Tim Duncan dominated the playoffs in a way that KG never has and may never.

To say nothing of the chasm of diffrence between MJ and KG.

But judging by the poll results...I'm preaching to the choir.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

KG is definitely not even on Jordans level. Hes just not dominant enough on the offensive end, and isnt the most dominant player in the league on the defensive end either. 

KG is a rare type and has amazing versatility, but hes not more dominant than Tim Duncan on either side of the floor. KG only gets to the line 5 times a game which is pathetic for a guy of his calibur. Find me a top 2-3 offensive player in the last 10 years who got to the line less than that, you definitely wont find a PF. Even most elite guards go to the line more than that. This is just an example of KG not being as dominant as he needs to be. 

People often see versatility as an attribute itself, when in reality its not. 

When KG retires, he'll be lucky if hes a top 10 player of all time. He'll be lucky if he surpasses Duncan. 

Pinball brought up an interesting point in another thread. Pretty much all of the top 10 guys of all time can hang with KG statistically, so its going to come down to titles/accomplishments. KG is not that accomplished for a guy his calibur, he hasnt even got out of the 1st round. 

So simply put, no.


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## wild_style (Feb 26, 2004)

Michael Jordan was, and still is the greatest player in the history of the NBA.
Kevin Garnett? ..... He is now clearly the most valuable and best player in the league, and is still improving.
By the end of his career he will easily make the top ten of all time, and the only thing stopping him from being above duncan now are the rings. He has overtaken him talent wise.
he has a team now capable of making a run at the championship this year, i dont think your team winning makes you greater than another individual.
Garnett has been my favourite player since he entered the league, and i truly do think he is capable and has the talent to become the greatest basketball player of all time.
Michael jordan will not be overtaken easily, and i think KG may come up 1 or 2 places short.
Doesnt seem many agree with me, love the thread though, should be moved to the NBA forum to get some more replies.... not mainly bulls fans  

simply put, yes i think garnett can do it


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## Showtime84' (Oct 8, 2002)

In my honest opinion KG is the poster boy for why versatility is so overrated for big men and represents why the center position has gone to edited- no masking please.

It's all fine and dandy to have the ability of a guard or forward in a PF or C's body but honestly at the end of the day I want my 7 foot franshise player to be down on the low block attracting double and triple teams, putting preassure on the defense, getting to the line consistently and shooting in the high 50's. Leave the perimeter play to the wing guysl.

This is were KG comes in, he has the ability to do the things that I said above but more often than not, he prefers to show off his PG and SG skills by staying 15-20 feet away from the basket, putting dribbling exhibitions, launching long turnaround contested jumpers or 3 pointers and basically bailing the opposing team out by only attracting single coverage.

This is why Tim Duncan will ALWAYS get the upper hand against KG. He uses his size like a big man should, it's not very pretty but hey, classic center and PF play was NEVER intended to be anything but gritty and effective.

This why I laugh when people say "Oh today's big guys are so versatil and can do so many things" BIG FRIGGING DEAL!!!!!! what good is it to have so many skills if you can't pull off the one thing tha makes a big man so valuable. Give me an old school big man that can't do ANYTHING except dominate the damn PAINT!!!!


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## wild_style (Feb 26, 2004)

kevin garnett can do everything u said, and he does.... he also can run a play like a pg and play on the wing... all of which he does almost as well as specialist players on those positions.
yes there is a lack of real centers around the league, many players may try and base their game around KG, but these arent players who could play C anyway, players like AK47 or dirk were never going to be big, center, post type players, they may have made the league on their post play alone, but there is nothing wrong with improving other aspects of your game to become a better player. tim duncan is great at what he does, but he can not do nearly as much on a basketball court as garnett can.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

KG vs Jordan. 

Cmon

Jordan is the greatest player ever. And it isnt particularly close. Is KG even in the top 10 alltime? I cant say for certain that he is. 

I am a huge KG fan. Outside of Magic Johnson, there hasnt been a more versatile player in league history. But for him to be included in any VS MJ anything, let him win one playoff series first, let alone a championship


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> KG vs Jordan.
> 
> Cmon
> ...


Common, rlucas, scouting is all about projection, is it not. We're not talking about what KG is now, but what he might become. Let's see how the playoffs go this year. It looks like KG will make it out of round one this time at the least...

...but then again, the Cubs were left out of the World Series despite being up 3-1 on the Marlins.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Common, rlucas, scouting is all about projection, is it not. We're not talking about what KG is now, but what he might become. Let's see how the playoffs go this year. It looks like KG will make it out of round one this time at the least...
> ...


We are talking 6 titles, 30000 pts, a bucket full of MVPs, 10000 rbs, a ton of assists, arguably the greatest career of any one player in team sports history. KG isnt there and I cant see a projection that he will be. I remember him getting dusted by Dirk 2 years ago. If there is any player in the NBA who has a chance, its Lebron. KG? Great player. As good as MJ, not a chance


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtime84'</b>!
> In my honest opinion KG is the poster boy for why versatility is so overrated for big men and represents why the center position has gone to sh!t.
> 
> It's all fine and dandy to have the ability of a guard or forward in a PF or C's body but honestly at the end of the day I want my 7 foot franshise player to be down on the low block attracting double and triple teams, putting preassure on the defense, getting to the line consistently and shooting in the high 50's. Leave the perimeter play to the wing guysl.
> ...


I agree completely. KG is an amazing talent, but give me a big man who can bang, control the paint and be physical.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> If there is any player in the NBA who has a chance, its Lebron. KG? Great player. As good as MJ, not a chance


This makes me wanna vomit, KG is light years and i mean Light Years way better then Lebron James, i mean its a no brainer. KG is so much better Lebron in every catagory maybe except passing. Lebron is a very good player, but i think KG has the ability to be top 5 of all time. Dirk has lit up many players, Dirk is another person who if he was a great defender like KG Dirk is probably better then KG, Dirk is very Underrated. Lebron ranks up there with Kobe as very overated players. Carmelo better the James, Duncan Better then KG, DIrk better then Jermain Oneal, Tmac better then Kobe.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> This makes me wanna vomit, KG is light years and i mean Light Years way better then Lebron James, i mean its a no brainer. KG is so much better Lebron in every catagory maybe except passing. Lebron is a very good player, but i think KG has the ability to be top 5 of all time. Dirk has lit up many players, Dirk is another person who if he was a great defender like KG Dirk is probably better then KG, Dirk is very Underrated. Lebron ranks up there with Kobe as very overated players. Carmelo better the James, Duncan Better then KG, DIrk better then Jermain Oneal, Tmac better then Kobe.


Bizkit, I doubt rlucas means that Lebron is better than KG. Keep in mind that Lebron is 18 or 19 and KG is 27. As far as I know, Lebron is the best ever at his age. He has the potential to be the greatest ever. However, he is not the best now.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

And as far as the career numbers go, barring injury, don't be surprised if Garnett gets into the very highest reaches of points scored and rebounds, as well as racking up a boatload of assists, blocks and steals. KG had an early start, statistically speaking, by jumping straight from HS. I mean, it seems like he's been around forever now, but he's only what, 26 or 27 years old? He has maybe 5 more years in his prime and several years after that where he should still be putting up impressive numbers. I wonder what his career stats (totals and averages) look like compared to someone like Karl Malone at the same age.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> We are talking 6 titles, 30000 pts, a bucket full of MVPs, 10000 rbs, a ton of assists, arguably the greatest career of any one player in team sports history. KG isnt there and I cant see a projection that he will be. I remember him getting dusted by Dirk 2 years ago. If there is any player in the NBA who has a chance, its Lebron. KG? Great player. As good as MJ, not a chance


Just to follow up on my last post, I pulled up KG's career stats and he has:

13864 points (20 per game)
7493 rebounds (10.8pg)
3059 assists (4.4pg)
1231 blocks (1.8pg)
968 steals (1.4pg)

and the kid is 27 years old (for another month). His career isn't even half-over yet, barring injuries or him deciding to shut it down a few years before he needs to.

I'm not saying this makes him better than MJ, but at his current pace he'll be on the absolute top tier of all time. It's conceivable he could even crack the top 3-5, IMO.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Bizkit, I doubt rlucas means that Lebron is better than KG. Keep in mind that Lebron is 18 or 19 and KG is 27. As far as I know, Lebron is the best ever at his age. He has the potential to be the greatest ever. However, he is not the best now.


I dont know if Lebron is the best ever at his age (19).

Moses Malone age 19 
18.8 ppg, a whopping *.571% FGP* , 14.6 rbpg, 85 stls, 128 blks. In only 30 minutes a game.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

In the ABA if I am not mistaken


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> In the ABA if I am not mistaken


The ABA had great talent also, DR. J came from the ABA.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> The ABA had great talent also, DR. J came from the ABA.


there was a handful of players in the ABA (artist gilmore, Mel Daniels, a couple others). But for the most part it was an inferior league during a different time


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

around that same time the NBA was also not a power house just packed with talent, Sure Moses Malone Averaged 18 ppg as a 19 year old in the ABA, but it only took him 1 year of the NBA untill he started averaging over 19 ppg. Also the NBA and ABA had exibition games and in the early years the NBA beat the ABA However, in the later years of the rivalry, the tide began to turn. Buoyed by younger, better talent.ABA teams began winning most of the games. Over the last three seasons of the rivalry, the ABA steadily pulled ahead: 15-10 (in 1973), 16-7 (in 1974), and 31-17 (in 1975). The ABA won the overall interleague rivalry, 79 games to 76.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

even though jordan didnt win his first championship at age of 27, but he was putting up crazy numbers like 35pts 8rebs 8 assists a game, won the defensive player of the year, MVP. by far the most dominant offensive player of his time. KG is no where near that, hes not a great scorer, i will go as far as saying KG doesnt even have a good post move. as for being the most versatile big man in the game today, well look at shaq, why was he considered the most dominant and the best player for the psat few years? is it because hes vesatile like KG? NO, its because he plays the way like a what a dominant big man should be playing. control the pain with sheer power, not stepping out 15-20 feets and showing off dribbling skills. big deal if u can pass.

anyway, comparing KG to MJ is dumb in my opinion, KG hasn't even been out of first round in playoffs.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> This makes me wanna vomit, KG is light years and i mean Light Years way better then Lebron James, i mean its a no brainer. KG is so much better Lebron in every catagory maybe except passing. Lebron is a very good player, but i think KG has the ability to be top 5 of all time. Dirk has lit up many players, Dirk is another person who if he was a great defender like KG Dirk is probably better then KG, Dirk is very Underrated. Lebron ranks up there with Kobe as very overated players. Carmelo better the James, Duncan Better then KG, DIrk better then Jermain Oneal, Tmac better then Kobe.


Top 5 of all time huh? How can he be top 5 of all time when he isn't even the best player in the game today? Tim Duncan will probably end up being a top 10 player of all time so there's no chance in hell for Garnett to be top 5. Everyone makes such a big deal about his versatility. Yes, he's an amazing talent. Yes, he can do many things on the basketball court. However, his versatility ends up betraying him in big spots. He's very good at everything but can't dominate in any one facet of the game and that's partly why he's always fishing in the May and June instead of playing basketball. Offensively, he's just not a dominant player. He's a very good scorer but he's not on the level of the elite scorers in the league. He's got good range for a big man but his jumper is not consistent. He's not a very good low post player because he doesn't have the strength to back players down. Usually what ends up happening is he ends up settling for fadeaway jumpers. Sometimes they fall, sometimes they don't. He doesn't have a reliable moves or a series of moves that most great scorers have. Defensively, he's excellent. However, I'd probably take Duncan over him. KG's got the ability to defend 3 positions but he's not a good low post defender. He's a good weakside defender in the post but a stronger player would have his way with him. Duncan can defend the basket area as well as anyone in the game. His presence deters players from driving to he basket. KG defends the perimeter much better than Duncan but Duncan protects the basket much better. Overall, I think that Duncan is the better and more dominant player. KG is probably the second best player in the game _right now_ but that doesn't make him top 5 of all time. Shaq and Duncan are probably the only players who are locks for the top 10 right now. KG isn't even close.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

The reason this is an interesting comparison is not because we can realistically compare KG and Jordan today. The question is, if he does win a few rings and championships, does it make him as good as Jordan?

Let's look at the player. We know that good players accomplish good things; so I guess what I'm asking is, does KG have what it takes to make his team win those games on his own?

Arguably, there is no single player more valuable to his team than Garnett. I can't imagine a team taking a bigger hit to their win record or even just their ability to play than KG is to the Timberwolves.

This thread is about projection, based on what we see in the game, not about accolades and accomplishments (even if, admittedly, rings on an important player are a sign of quality).

So if your criteria is rings, then I guess KG will not stack up. That has been established. But we all know that Jordan's greatness was not the rings themselves; it was how the rings were achieved.

Do you see that in KG? Do you see that Jordan-like quality, the intensity, the pure basketball talent to make things happen? The ring-getting quality?


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> The reason this is an interesting comparison is not because we can realistically compare KG and Jordan today. The question is, if he does win a few rings and championships, does it make him as good as Jordan?
> 
> Let's look at the player. We know that good players accomplish good things; so I guess what I'm asking is, does KG have what it takes to make his team win those games on his own?
> ...


Ultimately, everything probably hinges on his postseason success. The fact that he's had so little success in the playoffs causes people to scrutinize his game closely. You start to look beyond the statistics and find small ****** in his armor. It's difficult to argue with the detractors as long as KG's team struggles in the playoffs. *IF* KG manages to win a few championships, it will be difficult to deny his greatness. It's possible that he can be compared to Jordan because his statistics are comparable. However, it's difficult for me to sit here and say that he'll be just as good as Jordan because I can't envision him winning any championships. 

That being said, I do see some similarities between Jordan and Garnett. Both players are incredible athletes. Both are extremely competitive. Both players are passionate and intense on the basketball court. The outcome of their games is reflective in their expressions. I can certainly appreciate KG's attitude on the court. I've never once doubted his desire to win games. He plays his heart out everynight and that is very reminiscent of #23. In the end, I guess personal accolades and team success are the only things that seperate KG from MJ. He's got incredible statistics and has the same passion and intensity as Jordan. Luckily, he's only 27 and still has alot of basketball left in him. It's conceivable that he can become as great as Jordan was. I just don't see it happening.


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## wild_style (Feb 26, 2004)

"He's a very good scorer but he's not on the level of the elite scorers in the league"
um.... correct me if im wrong but he was #1 in points and #2 in ppg this season?
garnett is clearly the best player in the league right now, personally, even as my favourite player i do not think anyone will take over michael jordan for a long time. i do however believe kevein garnett will be a top 5 player of all time, and he will get a championship... remember jordan was 28 before his first, garnett may have been around for a while now, but he is still only 27


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>wild_style</b>!
> "He's a very good scorer but he's not on the level of the elite scorers in the league"
> um.... correct me if im wrong but he was #1 in points and #2 in ppg this season?
> garnett is clearly the best player in the league right now, personally, even as my favourite player i do not think anyone will take over michael jordan for a long time. i do however believe kevein garnett will be a top 5 player of all time, and he will get a championship... remember jordan was 28 before his first, garnett may have been around for a while now, but he is still only 27


He was tied with Peja as the #2 scorer in the league. However, 24.2 ppg is not exceptional. In the past, th second leading scorer in the league has always been in the 28 ppg range. However, it seemed to be a down year scoring-wise around the league. Even TMac, who managed 32 ppg last year, only averaged 28 ppg this year. Pierce had a down year. Iverson had a down year as well. Kobe had some "issues" to deal with and had limited shot attempts this year. Usually, he's much higher than 24 ppg. All of the guys that I mentioned are usually in the 28-30 ppg range but had a bad year for one reason or another. Looking at their past, there is no reason to believe that they won't bounce back and put up big numbers again. On the other hand, this is KG's best scoring season ever. He's never averaged more than 22-23 ppg before. I'll give him credit for stepping up and scoring more but 24 ppg will not be the second best average in the league next year. KG also does not go to the FT line very much. He only gets to the FT line 5 times per game, which is rare for a superstar and almost unheard of for a player his size. I think that low number is attributable to the way he plays.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> Top 5 of all time huh? How can he be top 5 of all time when he isn't even the best player in the game today? Tim Duncan will probably end up being a top 10 player of all time so there's no chance in hell for Garnett to be top 5. Everyone makes such a big deal about his versatility. Yes, he's an amazing talent. Yes, he can do many things on the basketball court. However, his versatility ends up betraying him in big spots. He's very good at everything but can't dominate in any one facet of the game and that's partly why he's always fishing in the May and June instead of playing basketball. Offensively, he's just not a dominant player. He's a very good scorer but he's not on the level of the elite scorers in the league. He's got good range for a big man but his jumper is not consistent. He's not a very good low post player because he doesn't have the strength to back players down. Usually what ends up happening is he ends up settling for fadeaway jumpers. Sometimes they fall, sometimes they don't. He doesn't have a reliable moves or a series of moves that most great scorers have. Defensively, he's excellent. However, I'd probably take Duncan over him. KG's got the ability to defend 3 positions but he's not a good low post defender. He's a good weakside defender in the post but a stronger player would have his way with him. Duncan can defend the basket area as well as anyone in the game. His presence deters players from driving to he basket. KG defends the perimeter much better than Duncan but Duncan protects the basket much better. Overall, I think that Duncan is the better and more dominant player. KG is probably the second best player in the game _right now_ but that doesn't make him top 5 of all time. Shaq and Duncan are probably the only players who are locks for the top 10 right now. KG isn't even close.


Do you belive LJ will be a top 10 player of all time?


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I know it's just one game, but ... bump.

*IF* KG ever comes near being anything like Jordan, it began tonight.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

It's hard to say KG is as good as Jordan, but I don't think it hard to say that Minny may be the next dynasty team. Having the best player in basketball seems to make you that dynasty, at least in recent NBA history. Right now, KG looks like he is the best in the game.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> I know it's just one game, but ... bump.
> 
> *IF* KG ever comes near being anything like Jordan, it began tonight.


If KG and Minny gets past the Lakers..... then we'll have a discussion! 

It was great watching KG come up big.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

The horse maybe beaten beyond oblivion, but

Sam Smith noted today that KG is beginning to resemble Jordan. His thoughts echo this thread:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...96may21,1,292031.column?coll=cs-bulls-utility

"So is it Garnett's time? The 1991 playoffs became Jordan's time. Before that, his reputation around the NBA suggested George Gervin with a nice smile. He'd get you points, but not the big ones.

Likewise with Garnett, who was written off as lacking after last year's playoff loss to the Lakers. He supposedly didn't come up big in the biggest games. He wasn't a fourth-quarter performer. He didn't make teammates better. He had the trophies, but not the rings."

:laugh:


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

As I mentioned above, KG is very similar to MJ in his demeanor. He's very passionate. He's usually the hardest worker on the court, in addition to being the most gifted. He's a tremendous leader and motivator. He gets the absolute most out of himself and his team on most nights. That's where I see some MJ in him. KG played incredibly well the other night. If he continues to play this way, he'll eventually get his due as an all time great. Until then, he's just another great player in today's game. He's still got a looong way to go to reach MJ's level.


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## budd1e_lee (Nov 19, 2003)

another great player in today's game? In comparison to the past there are VERY FEW great players in today's game... and KG is definitely at the top of them.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> As I mentioned above, KG is very similar to MJ in his demeanor. He's very passionate. He's usually the hardest worker on the court, in addition to being the most gifted. He's a tremendous leader and motivator. He gets the absolute most out of himself and his team on most nights. That's where I see some MJ in him. KG played incredibly well the other night. If he continues to play this way, he'll eventually get his due as an all time great. Until then, he's just another great player in today's game. He's still got a looong way to go to reach MJ's level.


KG's going to have to learn how to win moe games with last minute shots like he did in game 3, I believe. Then there could be no knock on him. 

The most startling thing I remember about the Bulls in Jordan's prime is that to my memory, they won about 85-90% of games that were close inside of one minute. It was uncanny. Jordan didn't always have the last shot, but he and Pippen always had the ball and made the big decision at the end of the game, and it was almost always the right one. They were clearly beyond pressure. KG is definitely moving in that direction, and I think in general that he has it in him, but he still has a ways to go to be that clutch.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I didn't read this whole thread. But KG has always reminded me of a 7'1" Michael Jordan... I think he's a fairly similar player, just in a much longer body. Of course, that's in terms of his game, not his achievements. I want to see him reach that level, though. He has the kind of passion and personal magnetism that could elevate him to legendary status if he achieves some more.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

kg looked horrible tonite

karl malone outplayed kg tonite


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

garnett didn't have the energy to get it done

he looks flimsy and tired and was trying too hard to psyche himself up

it was a learning experience, but if the wolves win tomorrow, i expect that they can steal one in staples

if they go down tomorrow, though, i think it's basically over


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Maybe KG is on or will be on Drexler's level, but not MJ.

You have to give KG an A+ for Game 7. But even though the Kings couldn't stop him in the fourth, 32 isn't 50. It seemed like MJ was always scoring 50.

Drexler was a complete, elite player. He fielded a great team and had a superb season in 91-92, but it was too hard for his team to beat the combo of two stars like Pippen and MJ.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> It's hard to say KG is as good as Jordan, but I don't think it hard to say that Minny may be the next dynasty team. Having the best player in basketball seems to make you that dynasty, at least in recent NBA history. Right now, KG looks like he is the best in the game.


I don't know if I agree with that. Not about KG being the best in the game. About Minny being a dynasty or the NEXT dynasty team. As long as Shaq and Kobe are together/healthy/playing then I don't see Minny being the next dynasty. Also, take into account that even when Shaq and Kobe are through, there's still Tim Duncan and what I feel is a better supporting cast than what KG has.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pay Ton</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know if I agree with that. Not about KG being the best in the game. About Minny being a dynasty or the NEXT dynasty team. As long as Shaq and Kobe are together/healthy/playing then I don't see Minny being the next dynasty. Also, take into account that even when Shaq and Kobe are through, there's still Tim Duncan and what I feel is a better supporting cast than what KG has.


We saw how minny was able to build a contender by adding spare parts to surround KG.

The Lakers had Kobe and Shaq last season and didn't win it. They added Payton and Malone and they still may not win it. I'm not sure the Lakers can add players of that caliber again, and I'm not sure Payton and Malone can keep playing at the highest level.

Minny is probably going to have KG and Cassell and Spre for another two years. Enough time to 3-peat.

I agree the Spurs are tough, but they've not had back-to-back championships, in spite of having the Admiral and Duncan.

KG showed a lot of that extra level of toughness as they beat Sactramento. It's up to him to show he can maintain that level if they're going to win (and repeat).


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Minny is probably going to have KG and Cassell and Spre for another two years. Enough time to 3-peat.


Gotta win that first one, first.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

KG could develop into a top 15 in history but MJ is in other level


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Gotta win that first one, first.


They looked REAL good against the Lakers tonight, and I think whoever wins the West is going to win it all.

Yep, there's still 5 games to go this series, and another 7 game series in the finals.

We shall see, eh?


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