# Cassell and Dunleavy Disagree On Playing Time



## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

> Cassell believes that his body is in supreme condition that he can play 30-plus minutes per night. Dunleavy prefers to play Cassell between 20-25 minutes, spelling him with off-season acquisition Brevin Knight.





> It is possible that Cassell could live with that, IF he was guaranteed to be on the floor in the fourth quarter, which Cassell said is his money quarter and which he has proven over the course of his 15-year career.





> “I know I can make shots in the fourth quarter,” Cassell said. “(Dunleavy) knows I can make shots in the fourth quarter. Everybody on this team knows that I can make shots in the fourth quarter. Everybody in this league knows that I can make shots in the fourth quarter.”


Article Link

Have to agree with both on this one. Cassell shouldn't play that much yet but should be in the fourth quarter.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Ok, finally some talk on what ive been wondering the last couple games. It would be one thing if we had a good PG here that was killing it, that was outplaying cassell. But cassell is being benched in favor of brevin knight for goodness sakes. Yeah, knight/dickau should get some PT, but cassell should most certainly be playing 30 minutes a game, AND for sure, playing the 4th quarter. 

Dunleavvy better be careful. He doesnt want an unhappy cassell.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

i wonder if cassell can hit shots in the 4th quarter...


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Dunleavy subpar coach*

I have to agree with Cassell.

Dunleavy has bothered me ever since he took over the clippers. Last minute botches of close games and substitutions which make you wonder.

Dunleavy had a great squad a few years back and failed to capitalize. 

Get rid of Dunleavy.


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Geez, its only been 2 games. Sam needs to relax. Its a long season and Sam needs to face the fact that he is OLD and not is durable as he used to be. I actually like Dunleavys quicker smaller lineup. We are still getting points in the paint and we are taking good 3s. Its entertaining and I hope he sticks with it. Also, I dont mind giving Dickau minutes. The kid can play.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

DaFranchise said:


> Geez, its only been 2 games. Sam needs to relax. Its a long season and Sam needs to face the fact that he is OLD and not is durable as he used to be. I actually like Dunleavys quicker smaller lineup. We are still getting points in the paint and we are taking good 3s. Its entertaining and I hope he sticks with it. Also, I dont mind giving Dickau minutes. The kid can play.


I agree, Cassell needs to be patient. I really don't mind Dunleavy decreasing his minutes a bit because last year Cassell logged in a lot of minutes and had to carry the team at times and his body didn't hold up. Cassell is a gamer we know he wants to be play but he is getting decent time right now and the Clippers are winning, can't really complain.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

The thing is, Cassell has shown he still has it. Last preseason game, and the first two games this season. Theres no reason that Knight should be getting this many minutes over him. I dont think its about patience, since its not like hes a young guy who needs to "earn" his way back into minutes. What did Knight do in preaseason to justify so many minutes. 

If dunelavvy wants to use knight as the primary backup (personally i really like dickau for the offense), ok, ill take it. But not at the expensse of cassel getting 28-30 minutes. Or if we had someone really good (heck the livingston of 06-07 even), ok, i can see taking minutes away from cassell, and im sure cassell would be fine with it too, hes even said before, if livingston stepped up hed be happy coming off of the bench. I think what cassell is mad at, that the guy who is taking minutes away from him is not very good, and especially, the time hes been taken out has been in the 4th quarter a lot. 

I totally feel cassell. he says hes totally healthy and feels good, weve only got journeyman point guards on the roster, and in the 4th quarter its not like weve had 30 point leads. I hope dunleavvy gives him the 5 minutes extra he deserves.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

To me Knight has done an excellent job backing up Cassell. When he comes in he gets alot of his teammates easy buckets in both the half court and up tempo sets. The first two games he has set up Kamam for easy baskets better than just about any other PG the Clippers have had. He set him up with passes that were catchable and where they were supposed to be. 

Also it seems like every time he passes the ball, the shots go in. I think he was the pg who was in the game when TT went on his hot streak from 3 and he was setting him up perfectly. He's averaging a ridiculous 15.6 assists per 48 minutes.

To people that haven't really played basketball and/or who really don't know the game of basketball, it might not seem like he is good b/c he isn't raining jumpers like Cassell or scoring alot of points, but he does what we need him to do and what a true pg is supposed to do. So anybody that says Knight doesn't deserve the minutes he is getting or that he isn't a good pg, doesn't know basketball too well.


----------



## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

What I think we should do with PG's.

Cassell starts and plays 10 in the first, Knight ends the q with 2 minutes.
Knight gets 9 minutes in the 2nd, and 3 for Sammy.
Third quarter, Sammy gets 5 minutes, Knight gets 7.
4th Quarter, Knight starts and gets 5 minutes, Sammy ends the game with 7.

Total minutes: 
Sammy: 25 Minutes
Knight: 23 Minutes


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

Knight has done a nice job, but id rather see sam in tere in the more important stretches of the game


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

I dont recall any assists from knight to kaman in the second game. Knight can assist, yes. But pure passing PG's just dont work in dunleavvys system. Its why the let conroy go, its why they decided not to keep jordan, why they threw away that idea in the case of knight, i can only attribute to dunleavvys fetish for having journeyman PG's on the roster. I dont think its the right system for a guy with knights abilities. 
im not a genius, i cant explain WHY completely we need a scoring/shooting pg for dunleavvy's offense to work. Perhaps it streches the defense. Perhaps it changes who they have guarding who, perhaps it affects the double teaming strategies of the other team, perhaps the offense is designed to get the PG a shot every so often, perhaps its a combination of everything. I dont know.

All i know is, PGs with little offense, and little shooting ability have not succeeded here at all during dunleavvy's tenure. I normally dont care much for all the "plus/minus" stats and everything, hwoever i do check them out when it comes to PG's since its more accurate IMO than another position inasmuch as the PG dictates the offensive flow most of the time. When cassell is on the floor, per 100 posessesions, clipps average 118.9. With Knight 112.4. When knight is off of the court, clips average 119 total (thanks to dickau) When cassell is OFF the court, clipps go down to 114.1 (again, not as low as 112, since dickau sparked a nice run last game.)

I was hoping knight would change a little from what i saw in the preeseason, and i think he has. If someone had those numbers from preseason i bet they would be worse. But despite the slight improvement, cassell is still the better option out there. I dont udnerstand why knight is being given the benefit of the doubt when he hasnt shown much in the preseason nor the first couple games. 

His numbers are not even, no one has ever averaged i imagine 15.6 assists and only 4 points per 48 minutes for a season before. You just cant average 4 poitns per 48 minutes and have playing time in this league. Granted its only 2 games, im sure it will come up (I hope), but hes not doing the clippers many favors right now. Id even put dickau ahead of him at this point depending on the matchups.

Anyway i digress. Cassell's per 48 numbers are 22 points, 8 assists. Not earth shattering numbers, but not numbers that get you a seat on the bench in the 4th quarter, for a guy who slows the offense down. 



> What I think we should do with PG's.
> 
> Cassell starts and plays 10 in the first, Knight ends the q with 2 minutes.
> Knight gets 9 minutes in the 2nd, and 3 for Sammy.
> ...


I like that a lot better than what we have now, but this is what id most like to see: Cassell 30 minutes, including at least 5 in the 4th. Then a mixture of either knight and dickau depending on who is doing the best, for 18 minutes.


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Knight is much quicker and not a defensive liability like Sam. He also pushes the ball with more tempo. I like the rotation and it keeps everyone fresh. Its for the best and Sam needs to realize that. Also, lets see how he reacts if Dickau starts to get more minutes. Gotta love the hair!


----------



## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

We don't need Knight to score. That isn't his job. Who cares if he is averaging like 3 points when the Clippers are averaging like 117 ppg. There isn't much more room for scoring when the team is putting up this much points. You act like he is shooting 10 times a game. He's not looking to shoot, he is looking to pass and play solid defense. His assists are basically his points. 

I think its good that he is such a contrast from Cassell, it provides a good balance. 

No doubt that Cassell should be the starter, but when he starts to break down from playing too many minutes, especially worthless minutes in a blowout victory in the fourth quarter against weak teams, then we really will be assed out and then people will be saying he is playing too much. 

Keep the rotation how it is and let old Sammy get some rest for later in the season when we really need him.


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

PAIDNFULL23 said:


> We don't need Knight to score. That isn't his job. Who cares if he is averaging like 3 points when the Clippers are averaging like 117 ppg. There isn't much more room for scoring when the team is putting up this much points. You act like he is shooting 10 times a game. He's not looking to shoot, he is looking to pass and play solid defense. His assists are basically his points.
> 
> I think its good that he is such a contrast from Cassell, it provides a good balance.
> 
> ...


Exactly. I can care less if Brevin never scores as long as he pushes the tempo, limits the turnovers, and plays D.


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

PAIDNFULL23 said:


> We don't need Knight to score. That isn't his job. Who cares if he is averaging like 3 points when the Clippers are averaging like 117 ppg. There isn't much more room for scoring when the team is putting up this much points. You act like he is shooting 10 times a game. He's not looking to shoot, he is looking to pass and play solid defense. His assists are basically his points.
> 
> I think its good that he is such a contrast from Cassell, it provides a good balance.
> 
> ...


If its working then why fix it


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

PAIDNFULL23 said:


> We don't need Knight to score. That isn't his job. Who cares if he is averaging like 3 points when the Clippers are averaging like 117 ppg. There isn't much more room for scoring when the team is putting up this much points. You act like he is shooting 10 times a game. He's not looking to shoot, he is looking to pass and play solid defense. His assists are basically his points.
> 
> I think its good that he is such a contrast from Cassell, it provides a good balance.
> 
> ...


Exactly. I can care less if Brevin never scores as long as he pushes the tempo, limits the turnovers, and plays D.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

don't let that 117ppg fool you...it was against GS, and SEA...


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

the statistical analyzation is great, but the numbers are bound to be skewed at this point in the season...sure, we're averaging 117ppg, but it was against GS and SEA, not the greatest defensive teams in this league...


----------



## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

PAIDNFULL23 said:


> We don't need Knight to score. That isn't his job. Who cares if he is averaging like 3 points when the Clippers are averaging like 117 ppg. There isn't much more room for scoring when the team is putting up this much points. You act like he is shooting 10 times a game. He's not looking to shoot, he is looking to pass and play solid defense. His assists are basically his points.
> 
> .


Thank you PAIDNFULL23 and DaFranchise!!! 

Somebody who understands! Brevin brings the much needed defense and assists that fuel our league leading offense right now. Yamanenko I don't even know where your reasoning comes from ... oh yeah flawed statistics. 
Brevin has done an excellent job.. he's had alot of bad calls against him already when instead of a steal he ended up with a foul. 
Our team is #1 in offense and your complaining about minutes... jesus.


----------



## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

THE'clip'SHOW said:


> Thank you PAIDNFULL23 and DaFranchise!!!
> 
> Somebody who understands! Brevin brings the much needed defense and assists that fuel our league leading offense right now. Yamanenko I don't even know where your reasoning comes from ... oh yeah flawed statistics.
> Brevin has done an excellent job.. he's had alot of bad calls against him already when instead of a steal he ended up with a foul.
> Our team is #1 in offense and your complaining about minutes... jesus.


I'll second that! Knight is doing exactly what they brought him in to do, run the offense at pile up the assists. He's not in there to score, he's in there to provide easier opportunities for his teammates to score. Brevin is a very valuable asset and I'm thrilled that the Clippers were smart enough to bring him in.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> Yamanenko I don't even know where your reasoning comes from ... oh yeah flawed statistics.


The reasoning comes from 4 years of having dunleavvy as a coach. You can analyze who has done well as PG's here and who has underachieved. And the only PG's who have done well are ones who can score, and who have an outside shot. Thats not a flawed statistic. And even before looking at statistics, just watch knight initiate the offense. Hes very slow to get things going. Now, cassell is not exactly speedy gonzales in initiating, but at least he does add the threat of just walking it down and pulling up and hitting the shot. 

The bottom line is, im sure everyone would agree with me that sam cassell > Brevin knight. Also that sam cassell in the 4th quarter > about anyone else on the team we have, knight included. 

Thus the only assertion I am making (and sam cassell is making for that matter), is hey, how about giving cassell 30 minutes a game, how about playing him those 5 extra minutes in the 4th quarter. I dont understand how this is an outlandish request by this guy who have proven himself with our organization.


----------



## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> The reasoning comes from 4 years of having dunleavvy as a coach. You can analyze who has done well as PG's here and who has underachieved. And the only PG's who have done well are ones who can score, and who have an outside shot. Thats not a flawed statistic. And even before looking at statistics, just watch knight initiate the offense. Hes very slow to get things going. Now, cassell is not exactly speedy gonzales in initiating, but at least he does add the threat of just walking it down and pulling up and hitting the shot.


According to Dunleavy, Shaun "I can't shoot, much less score" Livingston was doing really well in his system. Brevin Knight (so far) is doing what Livingston was supposed to be able to do, being an excellent distributor & defender.

And while Sam does give us the aspect of his pull up shooting, the ball movement allows us to be a much better shooting team overall. I've been pretty much stunned how we've become a better 3-point shooting team WITH brevin knight in the lineup.

Sam needs to realize that at this point in his career, he needs to play quality, not quantity minutes. Knight is no spring chicken either, but he's really gotten the job done and until he starts screwing up, Sam should shut his mouth. Complaining this early is ridiculous, if he's gonna become a cancer again, we should just try putting together a trade with Boston or something.


----------



## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

leidout said:


> Sam needs to realize that at this point in his career, he needs to play quality, not quantity minutes. Knight is no spring chicken either, but he's really gotten the job done and until he starts screwing up, Sam should shut his mouth. Complaining this early is ridiculous, if he's gonna become a cancer again, we should just try putting together a trade with Boston or something.


Exactly. Sam needs to realize that he's no longer a 35 mpg PG, nor should he be for a team that has a more than capable backup like Brevin Knight. I have no doubt Sam can still hit big shots in the fourth quarter, and he will certainly have plenty of opportunities to do that this season. But, he needs to realize that his decreased PT is for his own good and for the good of the team. A tired, injured Cassell is not a productive Cassell. I'm a little surprised that he's not more understanding of the situation, for someone who aspires to one day coach in this league he should realize that he's going to find himself in circumstances very similar to this one. Being a coach means doing the right thing for the team, and in my opinion, that's exactly what Dunleavy is doing. So if Sam is interested in winning, he'll just roll with the punches and take advantage of the PT he gets. It doesn't mean he's any less important to the team's success. 

I do disagree with the idea of trading him to Boston though; I wouldn't want to reward his insolence by sending him to a championship contender! I don't see it happening, but if he becomes that much of a distraction I'd banish him to a less desirable locale, like say...Minnesota? :lol:


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> According to Dunleavy, Shaun "I can't shoot, much less score" Livingston was doing really well in his system.


Actually, livingston proves my point almost perfectly. The first couple of seasons livingston had little shooting raise, and looked to pass first always, wasnt really a threat on offense. He was a big time dissapointment to coaches and clipper fans for someone who was mentioned in the same breath as great and even good PG's coming into our organization. Then comes last year, he keeps the ball slightly more than he had, all of a sudden developed a 3 point shot that he went to way more often, his mid range game improved, and what did we have? A guy who was the ONLY clipper last year to really improve his game statistically from the previous year. ANd yes, dunleavvy did say that he was doing great, and i think all of us agree how well he did before his injury. 



> I've been pretty much stunned how we've become a better 3-point shooting team WITH brevin knight in the lineup.


How do you figure? I dont see how knight has changed that much. In 2 games, mobley and thomas have each gotten hot twice. Thats about the extent of our Three point shooting in two games. With mobley he was pretty much doing it on his own. With thomas i dont remember who was on the floor since his 3 pointers were all pretty much one designed play where he would be the last player coming down the floor, and would get the ball as he got down...how Seattle let him do that 3 times in a row i have no idea. 



> Knight is no spring chicken either, but he's really gotten the job done and until he starts screwing up, Sam should shut his mouth. Complaining this early is ridiculous, if he's gonna become a cancer again, we should just try putting together a trade with Boston or something.


I disagree slightly. I dont think hes really gotten the job done since scoring goes down when he is on the floor, and for some odd reason even the scoring by the other team goes up slightly when hes on the floor. I think its fair for cassell to complain since knight didnt do anything in preseason to warrant this many minutes, and knight hasnt outplayed cassell to justify his minutes so far. As far as a trade with boston, id love that, ive always like rondo. Ive put that proposal up both in boston forum and this one...



> Sam needs to realize that he's no longer a 35 mpg PG


Im pretty sure he realizes that. Hes only asking to not play 25 minutes, and to please let him play a little bit in the 4th quarter. Which is why i dont think its that outlandish. If cassell was demanding to play 35 minutes, id have a problem with that


----------



## alexander (May 6, 2005)

i'll say it again, get him out of here before its too late
39 year old pg who is already whining about pt after 2 games that we convincingly won?
i cant wait to see his back


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

strangely enough...i gotta agree with yama on this one...


----------



## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> strangely enough...i gotta agree with yama on this one...


Dude! You just want him to get minutes for your fantasy team! :azdaja:


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Looks like Cassell earned himself a lot more minutes today even when Knight is back to playing.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

and cassell tonight showed why he needs to play 30 minutes a game. You give him like 18-22 minutes, more times than not i bet he will get into some bad streak but be yanked before he can get out of it. When he has consistent minutes like tonight, he can still do things. Has brevin knight ever had a 35 point, 8 assist night in 32 minutes, in his career? 

Heck, i wonder if any 38 year old PG has had this kind of night. Cassell still has it. His game doesnt require quickness nor athleticism. As a 40 year old, i wouldnt be surprised if he could average 8 and 4 for a team.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Yea dude stick with Cassell that guy knows how to play.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

leidout said:


> Dude! You just want him to get minutes for your fantasy team! :azdaja:


:whistling:


----------

