# Joakim Noah: the new team leader of the Bulls



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

This was a very deep draft, indeed. There are going to be some pretty amazing NBA players taken late in the lottery and outside the lottery from this draft. Anyhow, as the predraft predictions started to settle in, I realized that while I coveted Spencer Hawes's post scoring ability (if not his bumper sticker, there were very appealing qualities to Yi Jianlian and Joakim Noah, so basically I was hoping one of them would fall to us. Yi really is an incredible athletic specimin for a 7'1" guy. He could be an amazing scorer in this league.

However, when I thought of what Noah would bring to the Bulls, initially I thought of something totally different. I thought of his personality, not just in interviews, but on the court. I thought about what a vocal and demonstrative leader he is out there, always motivating his team, always contributing a tremondous amount of energy to the court as a both hustle player and a leader. Then I realized that, from a communication and leadership perspective, we don't have anyone like that on the team. 

If Joakim Noah can play at all on the NBA level, and I have extreme doubts that a seven footer with his rebounding appetite, defensive presence, passing ability, and incredible motor is not going to be able to make some important contributions, I have little doubt he is going to quickly establish himself as the emotional and vocal leader of our team. I suppose if he's a complete disaster on the court, he may not get his team's respect, but considering all of Noah's basketball skills outside of scoring, I can't imagine him not finding a way to contribute. The recent article with Billy Donivan suggests that Noah is very respectful of his teammates and will do whatever it takes to mesh with them. Well, our team needs a leader.

Perhaps the natural candidate for leadership of our team is our floor general, Hinrich, but he seems interested in "leading by example," as both Paxson and Skiles have said about him many times, which basically means he just wants to play basketball and doesn't want to lead in any other sense. Duhon has been described as a more willing leader, but he's the clear backup, and it's hard to be the emotional leader of the team as a backup point guard. Leading scorer Gordon doesn't seem like a leader type. Deng might have some leadership qualities in him, but he hasn't been described as any sort of team leader yet. Wallace is another lead by example guy by all accounts. Tyrus Thomas has a fiery streak in him, but he also has a penchant for antisocial, agitated behavior that does not seem like the mark of a future leader. PJ Brown has been described as a leader, but he seems unlikely to return. Griffin can only do so much leading from the bench. 

Basically, the role is Noah's to take. All he has to do is start contributing on the court as he is expected to. Oh yeah, and he's got to flap his gums, but does anyone doubt that's going to happen?


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

I agree with much of this...........And emphatically say he has to produce before being a leader.

Leading from the bench isn't gonna be helpful. We can get better looking LuvAbulls if that's all we needed.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Ben Wallace is the leader of this team, seeing as how he's still the only veteran on the squad to play for and win a title in recent times.

As for having "A" leader. I don't think this team needs one. I mean, Were a TEAM right? And I cringe at the thought of a rookie being thrust into that role. He hasn't earned ANYTHING in the pros, and already we are grooming him to be a leader? Right.

He needs to earn a starting job first. And I'm not convinced he'll beat out Tyrus for the PF spot. In fact, right now, I think Tyrus IS the starter.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Scott Skiles and John Paxson are the leaders of this team.

And, until (if?) a superstar is acquired, they will retain their leadership/control positions.

Hinrich is the closest thing to a "leader"... although he's more of a player embodiment of the PaxSkiles ideology. He would not be the leader of any other NBA team.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Noah is certainly the leading candidate for "future leader" of this team, but I agree that he needs a few years to establish this role. For now, Skiles is the vocal leader of the team like he has been the past few years.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Noah is certainly the leading candidate for "future leader" of this team, but I agree that he needs a few years to establish this role. For now, Skiles is the vocal leader of the team like he has been the past few years.


And having the coach as the dominant motivating factor for the team is actually...sort of what you should expect in a team, except in those extraordinarily rare situations where you have -- not just a superstar -- but a transcends the game, strap the team on the back and follow me will-to-a-win Uber-star like Jordan, Magic or Bird.

Absent that sort of transcendent player, the Coach Be Da Man model is okey-dokey with me.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

NBA is a players league.

Not a coaches league.

If you want domineering father figure types to lead fine young men to championships, follow NCAA or pee-wee hoops.

No way in hell Noah is a leader on this team. Perhaps he'll be knighted like Hinrich is. This is Paxson and Skiles baby, unless a Kobe or KG level player lands here.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> NBA is a players league.
> 
> Not a coaches league.
> 
> If you want domineering father figure types to lead fine young men to championships, follow NCAA or pee-wee hoops.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> NBA is a players league.
> 
> Not a coaches league.
> 
> ...


You know, this is just so skewed that it defies belief...

It's every bit and more propaganda on the level you have been decrying regarding "playing the right way," etc. 

And it just ain't true. 

Look at the Spurs, the latest dynasty. They have great players, you need them, you know. But they are most definitely coached by a strict and authoritarian coach who "fathers" his team, especially his young point guard, Monsieur Parker. How about Riley with Miami last year? 

Please, give it a break! It is a rare player, as TB said, who can truly lead his team as a coach on the floor.

And regarding Noah, DMD may have overstated his case, but his thought is right on the money. Noah's contribution, if he comes through, is to be the kind of player he was for Florida. As near as I can tell, he brought all those guys together, and helped them make the decision to play for a second championship. It is the pros, and people just aren't as rah-rah, but you need someone like that who can really draw people together and pull them close enough that they really do feel that they are on a team with a mission and goal. I think Ben W. really wants something like this.

I really don't know what to expect with Noah. It's a weird pick, no doubt, at least regarding Noah's personality. Hope that DMD is right.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I've always found it funny to hear Skiles and Paxson lament the lack of a leader on a court. I think their style is partly responsible for Hinrich and Deng's passiveness in this area. And I think if they had one, they wouldn't want one.

But I agree with DMD, I think Noah can become that leader. He's good enough and he's strong-willed enough to do it.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> And having the coach as the dominant motivating factor for the team is actually...sort of what you should expect in a team, except in those extraordinarily rare situations where you have -- not just a superstar -- but a transcends the game, strap the team on the back and follow me will-to-a-win Uber-star like Jordan, Magic or Bird.
> 
> Absent that sort of transcendent player, the Coach Be Da Man model is okey-dokey with me.


Agree with K4E that this remains Skiles team. We clearly disagree on whether this is a good thing. I agree with you that it's dangerous to turn over a team to its best player, just because he's your best player (but not a transcendent player)...Jalen Rose was pretty much given the Bulls to lead. That didn't work out very well as I recall.

I don't see Noah taking over from Skiles anytime soon. I mean, yeah, he's loud, but he's also goofy. If Paxson doesn't trade Noah before the season AND NOAH PROVES HE CAN PLAY, I can easily see him becoming a favorite of fans, the media and teammates. Fans will love him for his motor and the fact that he gets as excited (and frustrated) as they do (and shows it). The media will love him because he says whatever comes into his head, so he'll help them fill their tape recorders. His teammates will love him in part because most of the Bulls view the media as a necessary evil and will appreciate the fact that Noah will be a natural media magnet. His teammates will also love him because Noah's just a big goofy kid. He'll make them laugh, and just maybe, remind them by example that it's really kinda great being getting paid all that money just to play basketball.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

transplant said:


> Agree with K4E that this remains Skiles team.


Then you agree with me as well. At this point, absent the rare Clearly Rises Above the Game One Of the Greatest To Ever Play in the League Superman, are you OK with that?


I am.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> NBA is a players league.
> 
> Not a coaches league.


Tell that to the Spurs. Duncan isn't much of a vocal leader from what I can tell. He's more the Hinrich/Wallace/Deng "lead by example" type of leader. Popovich has his players under his thumb. They've won 4 titles because of this stringent discipline paired with strong talent.



> If you want domineering father figure types to lead fine young men to championships, follow NCAA or pee-wee hoops.


Pee-wee hoops sure, but outside of Bobby Knight old-school type of teams, most big time programs rely on their upperclassmen to be major leaders. You don't think Noah was the clear leader of Florida's two national titles? What about Okafor and Gordon with UConn? Battier with Duke? Almost every NCAA champion I can think of has a player or two who clearly is the leader, and who the coach entrusts to be that leader.

I'm not saying college teams are always led by players and pro teams are always led by coaches, but it's certainly not one extreme or the other in most cases.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Then you agree with me as well. At this point, absent the rare Clearly Rises Above the Game One Of the Greatest To Ever Play in the League Superman, are you OK with that?
> I am.


Sorry, in re-reading, I can see where I wasn't clear. I'm more than OK with the Bulls being a "coach's team." I think it's hard to win if your coach isn't a strong leadership figure. Even on the Bulls dynasty teams, PJax was a strong leadership figure. Yes, MJ, the best player ever, was the de facto leader, but MJ never undermined Jackson. As I look over the NBA champions over the past decade, all had strong head coach-leaders. The best teams are clearly those who have superstars that actively support their head coaches. The Spurs are a great example. Marketing-wise, the NBA has positioned itself as a "players league." Championship-wise, not so much.


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## HINrichPolice (Jan 6, 2004)

DMD, I totally agree with your post, although the clincher is Noah actually becoming a good player that gets significant minutes and contributes consistently. The difference between our view and perhaps others in this thread is that (correct me if I'm wrong) we have full confidence that Noah will eventually become this player. I'll go out on a limb and say that this happens by midseason barring a slow recovery from his rotator cuff injury.

I don't think Tyrus' presence on the Bulls roster will prevent this from happening. With a declining Wallace, there will be plenty of minutes to go around at the 4/5 spots.

If in fact Noah fulfills my expectations as a solid contributor in his rookie campaign, I believe the core players will welcome Noah as a vocal/emotional leader on the floor, someone that they will willingly thrive off of and incrementally raise their level of play.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

i dont know about the bulls, but i know i couldnt be lead by a person the wore a suit thet ugly. 

seriously though, i think noah is more the excitment spark guy, than a true leader type. i don't think yellin and fist pumping after the most minor of plays is gonna motivate the bulls vets to become better players.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Good Hope said:


> And regarding Noah, DMD may have overstated his case, but his thought is right on the money. Noah's contribution, if he comes through, is to be the kind of player he was for Florida. As near as I can tell, he brought all those guys together, and helped them make the decision to play for a second championship. It is the pros, and people just aren't as rah-rah, but you need someone like that who can really draw people together and pull them close enough that they really do feel that they are on a team with a mission and goal. I think Ben W. really wants something like this.
> 
> I really don't know what to expect with Noah. It's a weird pick, no doubt, at least regarding Noah's personality. Hope that DMD is right.


I could not agree more. Iv watched Noah play in person for pretty much his entire career at UF and I think he will come in and boost your team chemistry right away, as probably any of the Florida guys would. Yeah he is goofy, and he clowns around all the time, but when it comes down to it, when the game is on the line, you can count on him to get everyone focused and do whatever it takes to win games and the other players will respect him for that. He's a competitor and it's no mistake that he has 5 rings right now. It may take, at most, a year for him to adjust to the speed of the game as it did when he first came to UF, but with his work ethic and desire to get better, I dont think he would accept not being able to pruduce at the next level and I expect him to be a solid player in the nba. I think he will definately bring this team closer together and if nothing else, will be a great "team" guy. And as hard-nosed as Skiles and Paxson may be I think they will learn to love Noah cause he just has that personality that makes you laugh no matter how much you wanna hate him. The fans will love him too.


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

It seems like being vocal or emotional creates an illusion of one being a leader. It's still too early to say, but Noah will need to be able to dictate how the bulls play in order to qualify as a leader for me. If not, he'll be just like another energetic and colourful player ala Rodman.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

If a player currently on the roster is going to take the mantle from Skiles and Paxson, it will be Noah.

And if a player (currently on the roster) will have Skiles blessing to become the heart and soul of the team...it will definitely be Noah.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

...it's gonna be kinda hard leading the team from the doghouse.

"uh coach, yeah, dude, i missed my flight, but...hey, like put me in, i'm ready...um, what? i'm benched?? huh."



:smilewink


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Nu_Omega said:


> It seems like being vocal or emotional creates an illusion of one being a leader. It's still too early to say, but Noah will need to be able to dictate how the bulls play in order to qualify as a leader for me. If not, he'll be just like another energetic and colourful player ala Rodman.


If some of you guys get a chance to watch some Florida games, which would be hard to do at this point, watch the way Noah talks to his Florida teammates on the court. He's an organizer and a confidense builder. He's not just extroverted and emotional.

I think my thread title is a bit misleading. Noah is not going to hit the ground running as the team leader. It's going to take some time for him to gain respect of the players and respect of the staff. However, I expect him to do it, and I expect him to take on this role, maybe as soon as towards the end of his rookie year.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

transplant said:


> Sorry, in re-reading, I can see where I wasn't clear. I'm more than OK with the Bulls being a "coach's team." I think it's hard to win if your coach isn't a strong leadership figure. Even on the Bulls dynasty teams, PJax was a strong leadership figure. Yes, MJ, the best player ever, was the de facto leader, but MJ never undermined Jackson. As I look over the NBA champions over the past decade, all had strong head coach-leaders. The best teams are clearly those who have superstars that actively support their head coaches. The Spurs are a great example. Marketing-wise, the NBA has positioned itself as a "players league." Championship-wise, not so much.


It really all seems semantics to me, but I'd have to go for the "players league" if forced to chose. How many championships would PJax have without MJ and Shaq, or how many would Pop have without Duncan?

Obviously you need your coach to command respect and offer leadership, but without the players you're sunk, and even with the players it's the players (by virtue of buying in or undermining their coaches) who make and break coaches.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

GB said:


> If a player currently on the roster is going to take the mantle from Skiles and Paxson, it will be Noah.
> 
> And if a player (currently on the roster) will have Skiles blessing to become the heart and soul of the team...it will definitely be Noah.


I concur.

Noah has the leadership qualities that Skiles and Pax would love to see. And I think he's probably likeable enough in real life, too. Doesn't seem to take himself too seriously ("Who wouldn't do it big after winning a championship?"), but he does take the game really seriously. This is a good combination.

But he is a strong personality, and this sort of leads into what the discussion on the thread's been so far. Strong personalities may clash with Skiles, and that's not "leadership". I think is exactly what was happening with Duhon, and with Big Ben at certain times. They both have leadership qualities but each of them happen to piss off the coach at various times.

Noah will too. But I think that he can still be as much of a leader as there will be on this squad.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

A leader is out in front of the rest, setting the tone and expectations. Right now that comes from the coaching staff. 

It can't continue that way if we're to win a ring. And depending on how the rest of the players take Noah's presence and emotions and pushing...some of them may have to find another team to play on too.

He's got to be a productive player of course, and I expect him to do that...rebounding, passing, blocking shots, contributing points...and probably mostly in that order...


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

The Bulls have lacked a VOCAl player. I think thats probably what Noah's role will be, he will be a cheerleader on the floor, getting guys pumped up and emotional. Thats what he is good at and what he will do. In terms of real leadership, I am guessing that there aren't many rookies not named Lebron that are going to come in and assume a leadership role right off of the bat. After all, Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Wallace, all those guys have BEEN to the NBA playoffs before, until Noah gets more experience he is just a pimply rook.

ACE


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## iversonfan 349 (Oct 15, 2006)

no way hes a rookie and there alot of players on the bulls already that can be leaders gordon hinrich and wallace


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Ben Gordon is the main on court leader, who players look to when the going gets tough. Same with Luol Deng a tad bit in the playoffs...but Deng still looked to Gordon as well.

Sometimes Kirk Hinrich likes to play leader, and tries to create too much for himself, and thats when our team suffers.

Anyhow, if Noah/Thomas can just be full of energy, full of defensive dominance, full of blocks, and dunks, and excitement, its hard to see this team not in the finals. 

If Noah is ready, and Thomas is ready, Ben Wallace NEEDS to be sent to the bench...and if he complains, out of town.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> Ben Gordon is the main on court leader, who players look to when the going gets tough. Same with Luol Deng a tad bit in the playoffs...but Deng still looked to Gordon as well.
> 
> Sometimes Kirk Hinrich likes to play leader, and tries to create too much for himself, and thats when our team suffers.
> 
> ...



HUH? you think Noah or Tyrus is gonna send ben Wallace packing? :lol: 

ACE


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Joakim Noah: the new team leader of the Bulls


You got to be EDIT - let the filter do its job please KIDDING ME.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> You got to be EDIT KIDDING ME.


Just you wait, bizkit. Just you wait. It shouldn't take long...


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Just you wait, bizkit. Just you wait. It shouldn't take long...


Look at all the people on the Bulls, Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Wallace none of these guys are considered "goofy", they are hard working very serious athleates I dont see this guy "Leading" the Chicago Bulls.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Look at all the people on the Bulls, Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Wallace none of these guys are considered "goofy", they are hard working very serious athleates I dont see this guy "Leading" the Chicago Bulls.



Joakim Noah was hanging out with Tyrus a lot before the draft. He already made one friend...now just 13 to go!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> He already made one friend...now just 13 to go!


Dont forget millions of Bulls fans as well.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Dont forget millions of Bulls fans as well.


And Scott Skiles!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Snake said:


> And Scott Skiles!


I wonder if Scott Skiles stared down Noah the way he did Aldrige last year and if he did how the hell did Skiles keep from laughing. I mean just look at Noah he looks like a joke.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> I wonder if Scott Skiles stared down Noah the way he did Aldrige last year and if he did how the hell did Skiles keep from laughing. I mean just look at Noah he looks like a joke.


At this point I think the staredown is standard procedure for evaluating draft prospects. I assume Noah passed with flying colors.

Though I wonder how Gray and Curry did.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Snake said:


> At this point I think the staredown is standard procedure for evaluating draft prospects. I assume Noah passed with flying colors.
> 
> Though I wonder how Gray and Curry did.


Curry probably offered Skiles some WEED.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Snake said:


> At this point I think the staredown is standard procedure for evaluating draft prospects. I assume Noah passed with flying colors.
> 
> Though I wonder how Gray and Curry did.



I can just envision Skiles giving Noah the staredown and having Noah give that cheesy kindergartner buckwheat smile he gave when he was drafted. :lol: 

ACE


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Noah's not THAT goofy. He's not a mature young man, but he's not a five-year-old either. He plays hard, plays smart, and sometimes it's good for a child-like passion to come through on the court.

By the way, he looks significantly shorter than Aaron Gray in the media pictures that came out today. I hope Gray's closer to 7-1.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/draft_2007.html


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

Showtyme said:


> Noah's not THAT goofy. He's not a mature young man, but he's not a five-year-old either. He plays hard, plays smart, and sometimes it's good for a child-like passion to come through on the court.
> 
> By the way, he looks significantly shorter than Aaron Gray in the media pictures that came out today. I hope Gray's closer to 7-1.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/draft_2007.html


Gray is indeed 7 foot w/o shoes. 7'1" with'em


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I have to say once again, Aaron Gray is a huge time steal. Dude is BIG! And how about him snaking Curry's number. RIVALRY!


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

RoRo said:


> Gray is indeed 7 foot w/o shoes. 7'1" with'em


By NBA standards, he should be listed as 7'2! In any case, he's definitely taller than Noah.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

So, summer league stats:

Tyrus Thomas= 29 PPG 8 RPG 5 BPG 

Thabo Sefolosha= 10 PPG 14 APG 7 SPG

Aaron Gray= 7 PPG 5 RPG 1.4 BPG

Joakim Noah= 12 PPG 10 RPG 2 BPG

JamesOn Curry= 13 PPG


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

yodurk said:


> By NBA standards, he should be listed as 7'2! In any case, he's definitely taller than Noah.


lol. i peeked at the draftexpress listings and he's listed at 7' 1.75" so why not round up to 7'2"


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

He's already showing as a good leader.

During the press conference, he said "Tyrus is going to show me around"...and quickly corrected himself "show us around" to included Aaron Gray and JamesOn Curry. 

He also seems to have this giant chip on his shoulder to prove everyone wrong. He seems to want to win the championship this year, just so he can throw it in the face of the media and say...three in a row baby!


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Mebarak said:


> He's already showing as a good leader.
> 
> During the press conference, he said "Tyrus is going to show me around"...and quickly corrected himself "show us around" to included Aaron Gray and JamesOn Curry.
> 
> He also seems to have this giant chip on his shoulder to prove everyone wrong. He seems to want to win the championship this year, just so he can throw it in the face of the media and say...three in a row baby!


zactly, people mistake his attitude to be cockyness. As a leader, you have to that confident attitude about yourself to be able to gain the confidence of others, or people just won't follow you, and if Noah has anything he definately has that confidence. That's probably what DMD was tryin to imply when he started this thread. Not that Noah is going to walk into the locker room and be the man right away, he will have to earn his stripes like everyone else does. BUT, if he works hard and puts in the time and dedication to improve his game as much as possible, he has all of the intangibles to be a great leader and motivator for the bulls or for any team, for that matter.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Reading about him recently and watching today's interview make me think Noah could be that leader and also made me less pissed that the Bulls drafted him. I thought he was going to be almost impossible to root for but he has surprised me with his maturity and charisma.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Don't discount reserves also holding the role of team leader. Aaron McKie was probably the leader during his years in Philly, and he spent his time here mostly as the 6th man.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I hope Aaron Gray is better than I expect. I don't really like him all that much and think as a 1st rounder he could have wound up a bust. But he has great size so I am hoping he is better than I think he will be.

ACE


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Personally, I think our team NEEDED some personality anyway. He'll obviously be the HIGHLIGHT interview guy in the lockeroom now.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> Personally, I think our team NEEDED some personality anyway. He'll obviously be the HIGHLIGHT interview guy in the lockeroom now.


Is there ever one overrated Bulls first round draft pick that you DONT like? :tongue:


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> This was a very deep draft, indeed. There are going to be some pretty amazing NBA players taken late in the lottery and outside the lottery from this draft. Anyhow, as the predraft predictions started to settle in, I realized that while I coveted Spencer Hawes's post scoring ability (if not his bumper sticker, there were very appealing qualities to Yi Jianlian and Joakim Noah, so basically I was hoping one of them would fall to us. Yi really is an incredible athletic specimin for a 7'1" guy. He could be an amazing scorer in this league.
> 
> However, when I thought of what Noah would bring to the Bulls, initially I thought of something totally different. I thought of his personality, not just in interviews, but on the court. I thought about what a vocal and demonstrative leader he is out there, always motivating his team, always contributing a tremondous amount of energy to the court as a both hustle player and a leader. Then I realized that, from a communication and leadership perspective, we don't have anyone like that on the team.
> 
> ...


Bump.

OK, so it's easy to bump posts that you make when you're right (see my posts about Brandon Roy before the 06 draft). This times, I'm going to bump myself, because so far, I've been dead wrong.

By this player voted suspension, I think it's pretty clear that Noah has alienated his team. I'm guessing that had he just yelled at Adams and had otherwise been a model citizen, no extra suspension would have happened. Suffice to say that thus far, Noah is anything but a leader on this team, his weaknesses on the court as a scorer are woefully apparent, and he has been surprisingly insubordinate.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Everything about this team has been a total disaster.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Chops said:


> Everything about this team has been a total disaster.











"What me worry?"


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Bump.
> 
> OK, so it's easy to bump posts that you make when you're right (see my posts about Brandon Roy before the 06 draft). This times, I'm going to bump myself, because so far, I've been dead wrong.
> 
> By this player voted suspension, I think it's pretty clear that Noah has alienated his team. I'm guessing that had he just yelled at Adams and had otherwise been a model citizen, no extra suspension would have happened. Suffice to say that thus far, Noah is anything but a leader on this team, his weaknesses on the court as a scorer are woefully apparent, and he has been surprisingly insubordinate.


This may have been a premature mea culpa, DMD.

I know that Noah is always going to be limited on offense, and heaven knows I find his antics and general shtick to be grating, but he may have been the guy to stand up and say "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymoer" with respect to Ben Wallace.

What he did to Adams was wrong. But if it was motivated by his utter frustration in watching the organization walk on eggshells around the ineffectual tattooed headbanded pink elephant that is Ben Wallace, then this juror is prepared to acquit Noah.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

ScottMay said:


> This may have been a premature mea culpa, DMD.
> 
> I know that Noah is always going to be limited on offense, and heaven knows I find his antics and general shtick to be grating, but he may have been the guy to stand up and say "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymoer" with respect to Ben Wallace.
> 
> What he did to Adams was wrong. But if it was motivated by his utter frustration in watching the organization walk on eggshells around the ineffectual tattooed headbanded pink elephant that is Ben Wallace, then this juror is prepared to acquit Noah.


+1


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## andras (Mar 19, 2003)

+2


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

The Big Bum Pink elephant Killer.....I like it.

Hey, I'd rather watch Noah and tyrus struggle than Big Ben put out an effort for only 3 of 30 minutes.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

This needs a bump.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Chicago Tribune -


> Energetic Bulls' forward Joakim Noah may be a rookie, but he is not afraid to speak his mind.
> 
> According to K.C. Johnson of the Chicago Tribune, Noah spoke about about the poisonous effect that losing can have on a ballclub.
> 
> ...


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Two nights later, there was the rookie Noah, tardy to the arena, scratched from the starting lineup and relieved of a pregame responsibility to thank Bulls fans for their support, which Kirk Hinrich did in his place.*

Yep thats your Team Leader...


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

BFD......:twocents:


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

He was in New York for the death of a friend... I guess I'd have to see why he was late before i passed any judgment, but then again I'm objective like that.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Even if there was a death to deal with, shouldn't Noah have told the team he was going to be late?

I'm sure if the Bulls were notified that they would not penalize Noah, unless Paxson runs an exceptionally cruel operation.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I'm starting to get the feeling that no matter what Noah does his fan boys will all ways back him, If this was Tyson Chandler or Eddy Curry doing this the same people who are backing Noah now would have been blasting Chandler and Curry for not being pro's. 

Wow I cant believe that hustle and grind far out weight skill and professional work ethic with some of the fans on here.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Wow I cant believe that hustle and grind far out weight skill and professional work ethic with some of the fans on here.



which skills do eddy and tyson possess that have been irreplaceable? let's see......tyson; no shot beyond 3 feet, no ballhandling ability whatsoever, not very mobile defensively, shot blocking ability marred by his propensity to foul; low basketball IQ, poor in the pick and roll (notice how chicago tried to continuously use him, but NO doesn't) jumps for alley oops well, dunks well.

eddy.....eats a lot, stays out of shape, foul prone, a defensive sieve, and uninsurable making him untradeable. now has a bum knee that's likely to keep him from working out all summer. look for eddy to come to training camp at 350.

yea, i suppose the noah "fanboys" are all screwed up.....

but the curry and chandler ho's can't let go of the past......:raised_ey

who's worse?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I'm starting to get the feeling that no matter what Noah does his fan boys will all ways back him, If this was Tyson Chandler or Eddy Curry doing this the same people who are backing Noah now would have been blasting Chandler and Curry for not being pro's.
> 
> Wow I cant believe that hustle and grind far out weight skill and professional work ethic with some of the fans on here.


Fan boy(s)? Plural? All i said was i'd wait to hear why....


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> which skills do eddy and tyson possess that have been irreplaceable? let's see......tyson; no shot beyond 3 feet, no ballhandling ability whatsoever, not very mobile defensively, shot blocking ability marred by his propensity to foul; low basketball IQ, poor in the pick and roll (notice how chicago tried to continuously use him, but NO doesn't) jumps for alley oops well, dunks well.
> 
> eddy.....eats a lot, stays out of shape, foul prone, a defensive sieve, and uninsurable making him untradeable. now has a bum knee that's likely to keep him from working out all summer. look for eddy to come to training camp at 350.


I just used Tyson and Curry as examples, I dont dissagree with the thought that they are very flawed players on the court. I do have a problem with people who dont think its a big deal that Noah yet again either skipped or came late to a team responsibility! 






> yea, i suppose the noah "fanboys" are all screwed up.....
> 
> but the curry and chandler ho's can't let go of the past......:raised_ey
> 
> who's worse?


I think the majority of Bulls fans are over the Curry/Chandler era with the exception of a couple of guys on here who cant let it go.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> I do have a problem with people who dont think its a big deal that Noah yet again either skipped or came late to a team responsibility!


seeing as the team approved the trip, and noah has no control over aiplanes, no i don't see what the big deal is. wasn't it the last game as well? 

noah's got some growing to do, but i don't think he'll be a reason (primary or othewise) the team's not successful. he's done everything expected of him ON the court; we'll see how he comes back next year. added weight/strength, some attention to his low post game, and a better understanding of how the nba game is played and noah will be a good pro for quite a while; AND in a whole lot less time than it took for his predecessors to become "good" or even respectable. i'll wager that in five years his career averages will be greater than 7 pts and 7 rebounds.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

:bump:


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> :bump:


Three dribbles to get from basically the free throw line to the other basket. ZERO dribbles from the three point line to dunk.

I sort of wondered when those skills from being a point guard back in the day might be useful. The number of 7(ish) footers in the league who can do that is pretty small. Big time for him to pull that one out, huh?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Look at DMD calling out his guy back in 2007. Nice find.

Noah is having a great series and arguably has been the best Bull player game over game this series. That dunk on Pierce was/is one of the sickest dunks I've seen since I started watching the Bulls.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Agree

I mean Pierce was busting his gut to catch him and couldn't . Joakim remarked in an interview that he thought he would have been fouled before he got to the cup _but I don't think Pierce could quite get him unless he went for a diving tackle _

Brad Miller joked that he thought Joakim may have dribbled it off his leg on the breakaway.

The thing is with Joakim , and which is one of the most underrated aspects of his game , is his hands. His passing skills are very very good as is his ability to palm the ball and catch on the move. As soon as his strength improves to finish off the feeds ..he is going really come along more on the offensive end as well as becoming a bigger defensive factor for us 

He may already be the fastest 7 footer down the floor in the NBA and he is not afraid of hard hustle work ..which is what that play on Pierce was all about . That play , and Rose's block on Rondo , were all about will and wanting it more .

The long term leadership combination of Joakim and Derrick , and how complementary their styles are to each other is exciting as all hell

Is it a stretch to classify Joakim Noah as off limits and a significant building block behind Derrick Rose ?

I don't believe so


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> The thing is with Joakim , and which is one of the most underrated aspects of his game , is his hands. His passing skills are very very good as is his ability to palm the ball and catch on the move. As soon as his strength improves to finish off the feeds ..he is going really come along more on the offensive end as well as becoming a bigger defensive factor for us


Yeah, I mean how many times did Joakim do this exact same play (or something very similar) in his college days? ALOT, actually. He absolutely loved to block a shot or grab a rebound, and then dribble the whole length of the court himself for a fast break. In fact, it was those sort of plays why people talked of him as the #1 pick in the '06 draft (before he went back for his junior season). 

*His ballhandling skills are among the best for any 7-footer in this league.* (a notch below Nowitzki & Garnett, but well above Dwight, Rasheed, and other athletic 7-footers...heh, Chandler ain't even in the conversation). I'm actually surprised he rarely utilizes this skill anymore, so I'm hoping he feels comfortable enough now, because not many big men will be able to react to it. 




> He may already be the fastest 7 footer down the floor in the NBA and he is not afraid of hard hustle work ..which is what that play on Pierce was all about . That play , and Rose's block on Rondo , were all about will and wanting it more .


One of the fastest, for sure. I still think nobody touches Howard on speed (not to mention strength and explosiveness). Noah's agility is also phenomenal for a 7-footer. His defensive rotations have looked better and better throughout the season, and the quickness with which he rotates is really showing.



> The long term leadership combination of Joakim and Derrick , and how complementary their styles are to each other is exciting as all hell
> 
> Is it a stretch to classify Joakim Noah as off limits and a significant building block behind Derrick Rose ?
> 
> I don't believe so


We've talked here about the leadership thing off and on again throughout the year. You're absolutely right about Joakim and Derrick being complementary leaders. In this league, you have different types of leaders. ALL teams need a leader like Rose who "leads by example" with a calm, cool, confident demeanor and has the talent to back it up. Derrick is the type of leader who breeds confidence in teammates and makes them better. However, Joakim is what you call an "emotional leader". He's the furthest thing from a lead-by-example player that you'd want because he's a bit wacky, but emotion and energy is ultimately the fuel to fulfilling a team's skill and potential. 

*Let's face it, until this season we've seriously lacked BOTH types of leaders. * Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng are decent guys both none of them bring constant visible emotion to the game, and none have the "make players better" type of confidence that wins in this league. Nocioni played with energy, but did not bring the enthusiasm that got others hyped up to play. Not how Joakim does.

I'm far more reluctant to trade Joakim after seeing him become a better & more versatile version of Tyson Chandler in this series. For a star like Bosh...yeah, probably I'd trade him (with some other stuff thrown in of course). Not for anything less though!


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

Good Hope said:


> You know, this is just so skewed that it defies belief...
> 
> It's every bit and more propaganda on the level you have been decrying regarding "playing the right way," etc.
> 
> ...


Well, arguments with K4E aside, I must say I feel pretty good about what has happened with Noah in just three years on the Bulls. He really has become the leader of the team, along with Rose. And give K4E his props. Noah needed Rose. :baseldance:


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