# Has Dirk created a legend in these playoffs?



## Funkyzeit mit Matt (Jun 25, 2005)

I checked the scores early. Up 12 sweet. Checked later, later down 1. I thought we were done and the Suns had worn us down.

Checked just now...we up 20 and Dirk with 50. He had about 15 at the half.

Un-****ing-beleivable.

He has carried us. He is the MVP and the best player in the league.

Sure he doesnt have a posse, wear all that jewellry bull ****, but he can play basketball, and better than everybody.

If it was Kobe who was doing this, the basketball journalist fraternity would be lining up to BJ him, and every 2nd rate celebrity would be saying how much they want to **** him.

Wont be hearing that about our Dirk. **** them anyway. 

They can kiss his ring. An NBA championship ring to be exact :clap:


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

He is def. making a name for himself, the guy was unconsiense today hitting everything. He will be a legend in this league once everything is all said and done


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

Hes not a legend yet, but a title will definately help. No one will say he shrinks in the playoffs again though. Stupid haters.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

I know one thing for sure people will no longer forget to mention him when they talk about the top players in the league. You can't deny what he has done and what he is doing. There is just no way to downplay it.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

I hope yall read this with an open mind...I have admitted I was a bit harsh on Dirk in the past but he is still a Scottie Pippen to me...Not a bad person to have as your 1st option but the best thing you can have as a second option...this team still doesnt have its Michael Jordan, but it looks like if you throw 4 Scotties on a team they can be very successful...


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## Funkyzeit mit Matt (Jun 25, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> I hope yall read this with an open mind...I have admitted I was a bit harsh on Dirk in the past but he is still a Scottie Pippen to me...Not a bad person to have as your 1st option but the best thing you can have as a second option...this team still doesnt have its Michael Jordan, but it looks like if you throw 4 Scotties on a team they can be very successful...


I have no idea what you mean. People that dont know a lot about basketball always reach for those Bulls/ Jordan/Scottie analogies.

By 'not a Jordan' do you mean that he is not as talented as Michael? Well, duh. At most there are 2 people in the history of basketball who can claim to be in the same stratosphere. Certainly no current player is. 6-8 players can make legitimate claims to be the best in the league at the moment, with Dirk at the head of this list. So if by 'not a Jordan', you are lambasting Dirk for not being as talented as Michael, you are an exceedingly fussy man who will never be satisfied with anybody.

Or are you saying he isnt dominant enough, that he cant haul a team singlehandedly to victory like Mike did? If so, you have picked the most inopportune moment to voice such a criticism, considering that Dirk just dropped 50 in a game to extricate us from a situation that would have derailed our entire season. Not to mention the fact that he has been clearly the MVP of the playoffs.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Funkyzeit mit Matt said:


> I have no idea what you mean. People that dont know a lot about basketball always reach for those Bulls/ Jordan/Scottie analogies.
> 
> By 'not a Jordan' do you mean that he is not as talented as Michael? Well, duh. At most there are 2 people in the history of basketball who can claim to be in the same stratosphere. Certainly no current player is. 6-8 players can make legitimate claims to be the best in the league at the moment, with Dirk at the head of this list. So if by 'not a Jordan', you are lambasting Dirk for not being as talented as Michael, you are an exceedingly fussy man who will never be satisfied with anybody.
> 
> Or are you saying he isnt dominant enough, that he cant haul a team singlehandedly to victory like Mike did? If so, you have picked the most inopportune moment to voice such a criticism, considering that Dirk just dropped 50 in a game to extricate us from a situation that would have derailed our entire season. Not to mention the fact that he has been clearly the MVP of the playoffs.


the whole point for reaching for an analogy is to simplify an explaination...

Im not talking about talent level when I say Mike...Im talking about the most dominant team in NBA history and using thier players as a measuring stick as far as how our players tier...

Dirk is in no way dominant enough...Im not gonna let 1 50 point performance wash away alot of bad play on his part in the past years...if we cant talk bad about our players after great games when are you supposed to talk about thier shortcommings..only after bad games? didnt he just have a horrible game 3 days ago? I never said Dirk is not a great player, Im just not elevating him to top status ...when we win the championship it will be largly because of Dirk but do you not think this exact team without Dirk wouldnt have at least taken the Spurs to 7? Dirk did not singlehandedly win this game 5...he shot lights out but he wasnt blocking shots and grabbing rebounds and deflecting passes...he was setting moving screens waiting for someone else to penetrate and reaping the benifits...thats waht this team is designed for, slashers who penetrate to create open shots for Dirk and all he has to do is knock em down...now hes the best in the NBA when it comes to that...


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> I hope yall read this with an open mind...I have admitted I was a bit harsh on Dirk in the past but he is still a Scottie Pippen to me...Not a bad person to have as your 1st option but the best thing you can have as a second option...this team still doesnt have its Michael Jordan, but it looks like if you throw 4 Scotties on a team they can be very successful...


Dirk is a top 5 player in the league, and you think of him as a second option?? Get this straight, there is only one MJ and no one will ever be better then him. Dirk is the best or second best 1st option in the league, you think Kobe Bryant is a good 1st option?? He is a ballhog and a bad teammate, the only way for the Lakers to win games is for him to do good. as for Dirk he doesn't need to have a good scoring game to win games because he does a lot of others things and he is a big guy. Dirk is a leader and he has already proven that in the playoffs.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

t1no said:


> Dirk is a top 5 player in the league, and you think of him as a second option?? Get this straight, there is only one MJ and no one will ever be better then him. Dirk is the best or second best 1st option in the league, you think Kobe Bryant is a good 1st option?? He is a ballhog and a bad teammate, the only way for the Lakers to win games is for him to do good. as for Dirk he doesn't need to have a good scoring game to win games because he does a lot of others things and he is a big guy. Dirk is a leader and he has already proven that in the playoffs.



Kobe is an MJ
Iverson is an MJ
LBJ is an MJ
Wade is an MJ
Shaq is an MJ
Duncan is an MJ
Paul is an MJ


Im not talking about talent level...Im talking about on court swagger and the ability to do whatever it takes to get it done...Dirks doing a great job but we had to get him the deepest team in the NBA to get it done...

Dirk only started to emerge as a leader at the end of last years post season, and he still sometimes does not play like one...need I remind you the near debacle against SA?


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

Kobe is an MJ *(not yet, could be but he doesnt have it. Game 7 vs the Suns..he pulled a Marion. Jordan wouldnt have done that ever. 4th quarter hes getting the ball)*
Iverson is an MJ *(Iverson isnt a Jordan, he cant lead. Another ego problem but has skills to be Jordanlike)*
LBJ is an MJ *(Could be one day, but not yet. Needs to better his defence and shot selection. Especially in crunch time. One day though..)*
Wade is an MJ* (Hes very close, but he has his lapses. And he is also just now develping an outside shot. Once he does he will be a legitimate threat to the MJ title)*
Shaq is an MJ *(no, Shaq is Shaq. He doesnt need the MJ title and never did)*
Duncan is an MJ *(same applies here, Duncan is Duncan. Another guaranteed HOF'er)*
Paul is an MJ *(No..)*

Im not even sayin Dirk is that level yet, but in the 4th, Dirk should and will get the ball. If this season has taught you anything, its that Dirk has grown since last season. He knows how to lead this team now.


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## Funkyzeit mit Matt (Jun 25, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> when we win the championship it will be largly because of Dirk but do you not think this exact team without Dirk wouldnt have at least taken the Spurs to 7?


No I do not, and 99% of this board would agree with me.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Dirk did not singlehandedly win this game 5...he shot lights out but he wasnt blocking shots and grabbing rebounds and deflecting passes...


Sooo, you want him to block shots and grab rebounds at one end, and be the primary option on the offensive end aswell. Geez forget Jordan...you want Allah!...or whichever God you Americans beleive in.

No, Dirk isnt the best man defender (though he is rapidly improving) and he doesnt put up gaudy block numbers, but he's been dominating the boards all series.

Seriously dude lower you expectations, there have only been a handful of elite 2 way players in NBA history.

Dirk DOMINATES offensively, and contributes defensively. He's better than all but maybe 1 or 2 players in the league.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> he was setting moving screens waiting for someone else to penetrate and reaping the benifits...thats waht this team is designed for, slashers who penetrate to create open shots for Dirk and all he has to do is knock em down


We must be watching different games. Dirk is the best 7 footer in the league at creating his own shot. Since Nash left, he has found a multitude of new ways to score without being spoon fed.

Open shots, my ***. He usually has 2 dudes in his grill, and many of thosse shots today were fiercly contested.

It's not a case of him being left wide open for the open J, we can just throw him the ball in iso and he will score.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

VeN said:


> Kobe is an MJ *(not yet, could be but he doesnt have it. Game 7 vs the Suns..he pulled a Marion. Jordan wouldnt have done that ever. 4th quarter hes getting the ball)*
> Iverson is an MJ *(Iverson isnt a Jordan, he cant lead. Another ego problem but has skills to be Jordanlike)*
> LBJ is an MJ *(Could be one day, but not yet. Needs to better his defence and shot selection. Especially in crunch time. One day though..)*
> Wade is an MJ* (Hes very close, but he has his lapses. And he is also just now develping an outside shot. Once he does he will be a legitimate threat to the MJ title)*
> ...


well of course he can lead this team...its like Batman leading the justice league...how can you lose with a squad like this...


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> well of course he can lead this team...its like Batman leading the justice league...how can you lose with a squad like this...


lol I wouldnt quite call us the justice league but I know where youre going. Outside of Josh and Dirk the offence has been poor at best. If one more person steps up its over game 6.


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## Funkyzeit mit Matt (Jun 25, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> Kobe is an MJ


In his prime. Missed playoffs last year. Ist round exit this year, where he bailed on the team



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Iverson is an MJ


In his prime, missed playoffs last 2 years.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> LBJ is an MJ


Maybe. Give him time.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Wade is an MJ


As above.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Shaq is an MJ


The guy who always seems to be on the bench at the end of games.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Duncan is an MJ


3 championships are a esult of the system. He aint an MJ.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Paul is an MJ


Who? Chris or Pierce?

Either way, the answer is no.





Dragnsmke1 said:


> Im not talking about talent level...Im talking about on court swagger and the ability to do whatever it takes to get it done...Dirks doing a great job but we had to get him the deepest team in the NBA to get it done...


OK, maybe if Dirk started to stick his tongue out or acted like the ****wit that Kobe is, would he earn your respect.

We werent that deep when almost half our rotation was out with injuries for patches of the year, and he carried us to a franchise best record.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> need I remind you the near debacle against SA?


Are you referring to the one where he poured in 35 and 13, made the game tying 3 point play, and the season saving block 15 seconds later?????

PLease do.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Funkyzeit mit Matt said:


> No I do not, and 99% of this board would agree with me.


that makes it a fact then, we make up a # and that makes you right...





Funkyzeit mit Matt said:


> Sooo, you want him to block shots and grab rebounds at one end, and be the primary option on the offensive end aswell. Geez forget Jordan...you want Allah!...or whichever God you Americans beleive in.
> 
> No, Dirk isnt the best man defender (though he is rapidly improving) and he doesnt put up gaudy block numbers, but he's been dominating the boards all series.
> 
> ...


I want him to be more consitent in the performance he brings to the game...dude have never even averaged 10 rebounds or 2 blocks for a season, my expectations arent too high, I just dont let my homer goggles blind me to his short commings...

So Dirk is the 3rd player you would take if you were starting a team from scratch with todays NBA players? then thats pure homerism...




Funkyzeit mit Matt said:


> We must be watching different games. Dirk is the best 7 footer in the league at creating his own shot. Since Nash left, he has found a multitude of new ways to score without being spoon fed.
> 
> Open shots, my ***. He usually has 2 dudes in his grill, and many of thosse shots today were fiercly contested.
> 
> It's not a case of him being left wide open for the open J, we can just throw him the ball in iso and he will score.


he is still spoon fed by the slashing of Stack, Harris, and Howard, he is still spoonfed by the shooting of Terry and Van Horn(the days KVH decides to make a shot)

If we lost dirk for the season we would still have a shot at an nba chip...if we lost Howard we would be screwed...


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Funkyzeit mit Matt said:


> In his prime. Missed playoffs last year. Ist round exit this year, where he bailed on the team
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you still dont get it...those guys with the crap they had or have willed thier team to where they got single handedly...name the 3rd best player for the Cavs...if you actually can he wouldnt even be the 10th man for the Mavs...now do it for the Lakers...the Lakers that shouldnt have even been in the playoffs but took a Phoenix team to 7 games, and unless Dirk brings it Saturday that would be the same amount of games it will take Dirk with the Justice League...and the Suns dont even have thier 2nd best player...Dirk is more talented then Chris Paul but do you think Dirk would have had as much sucess pulling that Hornets squad?


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## Funkyzeit mit Matt (Jun 25, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> you still dont get it...those guys with the crap they had or have willed thier team to where they got single handedly...name the 3rd best player for the Cavs...if you actually can he wouldnt even be the 10th man for the Mavs...now do it for the Lakers...the Lakers that shouldnt have even been in the playoffs but took a Phoenix team to 7 games, and unless Dirk brings it Saturday that would be the same amount of games it will take Dirk with the Justice League...and the Suns dont even have thier 2nd best player...Dirk is more talented then Chris Paul but do you think Dirk would have had as much sucess pulling that Hornets squad?


Factoring in all the injuries we had, our squad was not demonstrably better than the Cavs or Lakers. We basically only got 65% of Howard cos of his layoff and the time it takes to get back in to rhythem. Ditto Stack, Harris, KVH. Thats a great chunk of our team missing a third of the year. Overall our talent was not that nuch better than the 76s Lakers or whoever else you wanna throw at me. And we still won 15-20 games more than those scrubs, whilst playing in the tougher conference.

Led by Dirk.


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> you still dont get it...those guys with the crap they had or have willed thier team to where they got single handedly...name the 3rd best player for the Cavs...if you actually can he wouldnt even be the 10th man for the Mavs...now do it for the Lakers...the Lakers that shouldnt have even been in the playoffs but took a Phoenix team to 7 games, and unless Dirk brings it Saturday that would be the same amount of games it will take Dirk with the Justice League...and the Suns dont even have thier 2nd best player...Dirk is more talented then Chris Paul but do you think Dirk would have had as much sucess pulling that Hornets squad?



Yes, but with this arguement you gotta look at teams like Miami. Does it take away from Wade that the Heat are filled with good players? He has one of the most dominant Centers of all TIME playing with him. And I have often thought of Miami as the Mavs of the East, if not actually better than the Mavs.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

VeN said:


> Yes, but with this arguement you gotta look at teams like Miami. Does it take away from Wade that the Heat are filled with good players? He has one of the most dominant Centers of all TIME playing with him. And I have often thought of Miami as the Mavs of the East, if not actually better than the Mavs.


true...but weve all seen Wade play...he doesnt need Shaq to dominate he just so happens to play with Shaq...


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> Kobe is an MJ
> Iverson is an MJ
> LBJ is an MJ
> Wade is an MJ
> ...


 :biggrin: Deepest team in the NBA has nothing to do with his court swagger and the ability to do whatever it takes to get it done, you are not making any sense. Now Dirk knows how to win games, he is a leader. Kobe has the ability to do whatever it takes to get it done but how many times does he do that? You think by scoring 20 points in the fourth quarter will get you a ring? LBJ does whatever it takes? You mean how he likes to choke in the quarter and how he got owned by the Pistons? Sorry but you are not making any sense, your post is not an explaination for your theory.

You are right Kobe, Wade and Paul have the ability to take over games in the fourth quarter, but they choke most of the time. Sure Kobe, Wade and paul are clutch players but it's rare to see them get hot in the fourth quarter and win basketball games. :krazy: If you think Kobe or Wade can do that 16 times in the playoffs and win the championship then :laugh: .


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Funkyzeit mit Matt said:


> Factoring in all the injuries we had, our squad was not demonstrably better than the Cavs or Lakers. We basically only got 65% of Howard cos of his layoff and the time it takes to get back in to rhythem. Ditto Stack, Harris, KVH. Thats a great chunk of our team missing a third of the year. Overall our talent was not that nuch better than the 76s Lakers or whoever else you wanna throw at me. And we still won 15-20 games more than those scrubs, whilst playing in the tougher conference.
> 
> Led by Dirk.


so now were gonna bash our team to make Dirk better?

Dampier-is a top 10 center in the league when you really break it down
KVH- is still one of the most deadliest shooters in the league and would start on 27 other teams in the L
Howard- is the 2nd best two way player in the league, the only player better then him on a combined both ends of the court is Artest
Stackhouse- an all star who would start on 28 other teams in the league
Terry- a sharpshooter who would start on 25 other teams in the league
Harris- a top 5 pick who is starting to look like one...


theres a reason were the deepest team in the league...we had to get that much talent to take the pressure off Dirk...


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## Funkyzeit mit Matt (Jun 25, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> so now were gonna bash our team to make Dirk better?
> 
> Dampier-is a top 10 center in the league when you really break it down
> KVH- is still one of the most deadliest shooters in the league and would start on 27 other teams in the L
> ...


Bash our team? What the hell are you talking about? IM simply pointing out that many of them missed large chunks of the season and werent fully fit.

Damp, a top 10 center???? That must make Diop a top 5 center then?
KVH starting on 27 teams??????

_*Funky backs away slowly and hopes Dragnmke1 isnt armed*_

This thread should be renamed 'The owning of Dragnsmke1 by everyone'.

I suggest you quit while so far behind.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> so now were gonna bash our team to make Dirk better?
> 
> Dampier-is a top 10 center in the league when you really break it down
> KVH- is still one of the most deadliest shooters in the league and would start on 27 other teams in the L
> ...


Damp is not an offensive threat so Dirk gets no help from him.
KVH just sucks, he has been injured all year long.
Stackhouse, Terry and Harris have been inconsistent all year long. Well shoot, i could also add JHo to the inconsistent list.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

t1no said:


> :biggrin: Deepest team in the NBA has nothing to do with his court swagger and the ability to do whatever it takes to get it done, you are not making any sense. Now Dirk knows how to win games, he is a leader. Kobe has the ability to do whatever it takes to get it done but how many times does he do that? You think by scoring 20 points in the fourth quarter will get you a ring? LBJ does whatever it takes? You mean how he likes to choke in the quarter and how he got owned by the Pistons? Sorry but you are not making any sense, your post is not an explaination for your theory.
> 
> You are right Kobe, Wade and Paul have the ability to take over games in the fourth quarter, but they choke most of the time. Sure Kobe, Wade and paul are clutch players but it's rare to see them get hot in the fourth quarter and win basketball games. :krazy: If you think Kobe or Wade can do that 16 times in the playoffs and win the championship then :laugh: .


Dirk has not shown real court swagger until this year and it still comes and goes, thus a performance like game 4...I can excuse a horrible scoring game, but what other ways did he try to help when he only scored 11 for the game? did he grab 25 boards? did he get 5 steals? did he generate 10+ assist because he still drawsa double team and that creates open shots for others?

ok...were up 3-1 against the defending Champs...court swagger!!!3 games later and deep into an overtime where we lost a 20 point lead...nm

we are playing againsta Phoenix team that is missing one of the most dominant post man we have seen in years and has been taken to 7 games in every series and is missing its best defender and its gonna take at least 6 games to put them away...Dirk and the Justice league are fully healthy and played less games...

I am no LBJ fan but he did take the Pistons to 7 and if that choking at 21 then I dont know what to say..

Kobe and his 3 Chips and 81 point game aint considered chocking...that team shouldnt have even been in the playoffs...I have seen Kobe hit so many game winners its like watching a scripted movie...

Im watching Wade shoot 70% against the vaunted D of the Pistons and sink clutch shot after clutch shot while hitting the ground play after play...


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Funkyzeit mit Matt said:


> Bash our team? What the hell are you talking about? IM simply pointing out that many of them missed large chunks of the season and werent fully fit.
> 
> Damp, a top 10 center???? That must make Diop a top 5 center then?
> KVH starting on 27 teams??????
> ...


please show me where you proved me wrong 1 time...


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## Funkyzeit mit Matt (Jun 25, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> please show me where you proved me wrong 1 time...


You said I bashed the team. I pointed out we didnt have many of them for large parts of the season.

You labelled guys who havnt got a sniff of an NBA championship Jordan-like.

You said Dirk let us down in the SA series, when we would be sitting at home if it wasnt for his late game heroics.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> Dirk has not shown real court swagger until this year and it still comes and goes, thus a performance like game 4...I can excuse a horrible scoring game, but what other ways did he try to help when he only scored 11 for the game? did he grab 25 boards? did he get 5 steals? did he generate 10+ assist because he still drawsa double team and that creates open shots for others?


Game 4? so what? He is human, you think MJ never had a bad game in the playoffs? Let me tell you this, he had a lot of bad games in the playoffs. How many good games did Dirk have this year in the playoffs? Seriously game 4 was the only bad game from Dirk. How many games did Tim Duncan suck against the Kings? How many games did Kobe suck again the Suns? How many games did Dwayne Wade suck against the Bulls? Your theory still makes no sense at all, i can't believe you used game 4 as your explaination. Well game 4 probably the only thing you can use on Dirk.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> ok...were up 3-1 against the defending Champs...court swagger!!!3 games later and deep into an overtime where we lost a 20 point lead...nm


Ok? That has nothing to do with Dirk's court swagger. Kobe, MJ, Tim Duncan did not win 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 then a ring. Once again, no sense at all.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> we are playing againsta Phoenix team that is missing one of the most dominant post man we have seen in years and has been taken to 7 games in every series and is missing its best defender and its gonna take at least 6 games to put them away...Dirk and the Justice league are fully healthy and played less games...


Makes me wonder how much you know about basketball. The Mavericks are a much better team then the Suns, but our weaknesses are their weapons. If we matched up with the Clippers then the series would have probably been over already.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> I am no LBJ fan but he did take the Pistons to 7 and if that choking at 21 then I dont know what to say..


He averaged around 25 points (around 44% or less), 7 rebounds and less then 5 assists. He was not clutch at all and made a lot of TO's. I hate when people say LBJ took the Cavs to game 7 against the Pistons, the Cavs took the Pistons to game 7. They played great basketball and played great together as a team. 



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Kobe and his 3 Chips and 81 point game aint considered chocking...that team shouldnt have even been in the playoffs...I have seen Kobe hit so many game winners its like watching a scripted movie...


Lol, i love this. How many did he miss? Exactly. He missed WAY MORE then he made clutch shots.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Im watching Wade shoot 70% against the vaunted D of the Pistons and sink clutch shot after clutch shot while hitting the ground play after play...


You are right, Wade is playing great basketball against the Pistons. But where was he against the Bulls? and he was not very consistent against the New Jersey.

Ask around in NBA General, who is the best player in the playoffs this year? Most of them would say Dirk. Who whooped the Grizzles? Who whooped the Spurs? He is averaging around 12 rebounds a game and from what i heard on TNT, he is averaging 4+ assists in the playoffs. Seriously, Dirk has been the most consistent player in the playoffs.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

I wonder what you are going to use now since you already used the game 4 card.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> true...but weve all seen Wade play...he doesnt need Shaq to dominate he just so happens to play with Shaq...


When Shaq was injured, Alonzo Mourning came in and averaged 12 Points 9 Rebounds and 4 Blocks.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Funkyzeit mit Matt said:


> You said I bashed the team. I pointed out we didnt have many of them for large parts of the season.
> 
> You labelled guys who havnt got a sniff of an NBA championship Jordan-like.
> 
> You said Dirk let us down in the SA series, when we would be sitting at home if it wasnt for his late game heroics.


we did miss people for parts of the season but that was mostly KVH, Harris and Daniels that missed significant time...Stack was out for a month as was Howard but there were no significant injuries...that has nothing to do with my point anyway, Im the one that said our players are better then we act like and that we had to give Dirk such a deep team for him to be successsful...all you did was back up my point that this team is deep...

I labeled guys who have a Jordan swagger and will thier teams to a certien point no matter the lack of talent on thier team...

Dirk did let us down in the SA series..we were up 3-1...he lest us get teid 3-3 and almost lost the 20 point lead in the game 7, when we were headed into a series vs Phoenix....the game 5 jumpshot where hese blocked by Bowen after he gets a step on him to the rim, the game 6 tap back,"I didnt know how much time was on the clock" the Game 7 20 point blowout lost and thank God they gave him the foul when Ginobili tried to block him...why do we give Dirk credit fot the succes but a pass on the failures?Didnt the same thing happen against the Blazers?


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> we did miss people for parts of the season but that was mostly KVH, Harris and Daniels that missed significant time...Stack was out for a month as was Howard but there were no significant injuries...that has nothing to do with my point anyway, Im the one that said our players are better then we act like and that we had to give Dirk such a deep team for him to be successsful...all you did was back up my point that this team is deep...
> 
> I labeled guys who have a Jordan swagger and will thier teams to a certien point no matter the lack of talent on thier team...
> 
> Dirk did let us down in the SA series..we were up 3-1...he lest us get teid 3-3 and almost lost the 20 point lead in the game 7, when we were headed into a series vs Phoenix....the game 5 jumpshot where hese blocked by Bowen after he gets a step on him to the rim, the game 6 tap back,"I didnt know how much time was on the clock" the Game 7 20 point blowout lost and thank God they gave him the foul when Ginobili tried to block him...why do we give Dirk credit fot the succes but a pass on the failures?Didnt the same thing happen against the Blazers?


SA are the defending champions, you act like they are a bad team.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

t1no said:


> Game 4? so what? He is human, you think MJ never had a bad game in the playoffs? Let me tell you this, he had a lot of bad games in the playoffs. How many good games did Dirk have this year in the playoffs? Seriously game 4 was the only bad game from Dirk. How many games did Tim Duncan suck against the Kings? How many games did Kobe suck again the Suns? How many games did Dwayne Wade suck against the Bulls? Your theory still makes no sense at all, i can't believe you used game 4 as your explaination. Well game 4 probably the only thing you can use on Dirk.


ahh, at least you gave real responses so we can actually have a discussion...

MJ had a lot of horrible shooting games, but in those games where he couldnt buy a bucket he would play lock down D, or grab a high # of rebounds, or still hit the clutch shot or make the perfect pass...Dirk either has a monster game or nothing...when Dirk is having a bad game he doesnt know how to make the players around him better...even in Duncans bad games he would draw the double or triple team and make the pass that still got what they needed...



t1no said:


> Ok? That has nothing to do with Dirk's court swagger. Kobe, MJ, Tim Duncan did not win 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 then a ring. Once again, no sense at all.


 and none of them lost 3-0 or 3-1 leads to have to struggle through a game 7...they ended the series...



t1no said:


> Makes me wonder how much you know about basketball. The Mavericks are a much better team then the Suns, but our weaknesses are their weapons. If we matched up with the Clippers then the series would have probably been over already.


 the fact that I can see flaws in our best player means I know nothing ? Fine you can say that, but the fact of the matter is we are still struggling againsta team that is really missing to of its 3 best players and has played 21 games to this point...




t1no said:


> He averaged around 25 points (around 44% or less), 7 rebounds and less then 5 assists. He was not clutch at all and made a lot of TO's. I hate when people say LBJ took the Cavs to game 7 against the Pistons, the Cavs took the Pistons to game 7. They played great basketball and played great together as a team.


but my point was that team sucks and yet they still took the Pistons to 7...the reason they played great as a team is becuase Lebron willed them there...


t1no said:


> Lol, i love this. How many did he miss? Exactly. He missed WAY MORE then he made clutch shots.


 I dont have #'s so Im not gonna discuss on speculation but hes made enough to win 3 championships and drag one of the worst squads into the playoffs...


t1no said:


> You are right, Wade is playing great basketball against the Pistons. But where was he against the Bulls? and he was not very consistent against the New Jersey.


 but he still found a way to help his team win...if he doesnt get hurt last year, Detroit doesnt get beat by SA in the Finals


t1no said:


> Ask around in NBA General, who is the best player in the playoffs this year? Most of them would say Dirk. Who whooped the Grizzles? Who whooped the Spurs? He is averaging around 12 rebounds a game and from what i heard on TNT, he is averaging 4+ assists in the playoffs. Seriously, Dirk has been the most consistent player in the playoffs.


 Im not saying Dirk isnt playing great basketball, all Im saying is this is the 1st time hes actually shown leadership and hes still inconsistent with it...Dirk whooped the Griz but it was our backcourt that eeked it out vs. the Spurs(lets not act like we whooped the Spurs all of a sudden)

Dirk has been the most consistent player but hes also had a lot of bad play in key situations...


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

t1no said:


> SA are the defending champions, you act like they are a bad team.


and yall are acting like Im saying Dirk sucks...


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## Ninjatune (May 1, 2006)

Are you seriously looking that hard for Dirks faults? Can you show me any other player who has been bigger than Dirk. And NO, Wade has not out-shined Dirk in these playoffs, not by a long stretch. 

Dirk has one piss poor game, ONE, out of his last 40+ and you fault him for it? 
Blowing a 20 point lead in SA was his fault? Please. 
Getting blocked by Bowen? That was 50% a great play 50% a foul. Either way, not his fault. 
Thankfull that the Ginobli foul was called? Hell yeah, it was a blatant foul. Even if it doesn't get called, how is that Dirks fault?

Before this post-season I would let anyone belittle Dirk's greatness, simply becasue he hasn't stepped it up when it counts (even though his playoff numbers have always been great) But to still question him after what he has done this post season? I just don't get it. 

I'm not worried about Miami or Detriot. 
We absolutely man handled Miami this year. Once with Shaq, once without. 
We detroyed Detroit w/out Stack and barely lost to them w/out JHo.
Both teams play out style of ball and I have no doubt we will win the NBA Championship after we get past PHX.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

TX_MAVFAN said:


> Are you seriously looking that hard for Dirks faults? Can you show me any other player who has been bigger than Dirk. And NO, Wade has not out-shined Dirk in these playoffs, not by a long stretch.
> 
> Dirk has one piss poor game, ONE, out of his last 40+ and you fault him for it?
> Blowing a 20 point lead in SA was his fault? Please.
> ...


this is exactly what Ive been saying...this is the 1st post season where he played like this...the Bowen block was his fualt, he should have never settled for a jumper in that situation...the 20 point comeback was his fualt, he should have done what he did yesterday and take over...we won that series becuase the Spurs finally made a mistake not becuase we took it...

why are we talking about Miami and Detroit? Im with you, we are better then those teams and we will be hoisting our 1st champioship trophy...Im just saying Im not gonna let 1.5 post seasons change 6 other years of play...Ill say hes stepped to Jordan status if he can be onsitent in his domenor and play like this next year..its gonna take more the 16 games to be called a turn around...


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> ahh, at least you gave real responses so we can actually have a discussion...
> 
> MJ had a lot of horrible shooting games, but in those games where he couldnt buy a bucket he would play lock down D, or grab a high # of rebounds, or still hit the clutch shot or make the perfect pass...Dirk either has a monster game or nothing...when Dirk is having a bad game he doesnt know how to make the players around him better...even in Duncans bad games he would draw the double or triple team and make the pass that still got what they needed...


MJ is the greatest player ever, but he made a lot of mistakes during his career playoffs in the crunch time. You are giving him way too much credit, he wasn't perfect you know.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> and none of them lost 3-0 or 3-1 leads to have to struggle through a game 7...they ended the series...


The Spurs were up 2-0 against the Lakers then lost the next 4. The Pistons were up 2-0 against the Cavs, blew them out the first 2 games then the Cavs took them to game 7. There are a lot more situations but can't seem to remember them.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> the fact that I can see flaws in our best player means I know nothing ? Fine you can say that, but the fact of the matter is we are still struggling againsta team that is really missing to of its 3 best players and has played 21 games to this point...


"we are playing againsta Phoenix team that is missing one of the most dominant post man we have seen in years and has been taken to 7 games in every series and is missing its best defender and its gonna take at least 6 games to put them away...Dirk and the Justice league are fully healthy and played less games..."

Nothins in that post shows me that you are pointing out flows in our best player, that's true they are missing a lot of players but like i said before our weaknesses are their weapons and that's why we are having a hard time against them.



Dragnsmke1 said:


> but my point was that team sucks and yet they still took the Pistons to 7...the reason they played great as a team is becuase Lebron willed them there...
> I dont have #'s so Im not gonna discuss on speculation but hes made enough to win 3 championships and drag one of the worst squads into the playoffs...
> but he still found a way to help his team win...if he doesnt get hurt last year, Detroit doesnt get beat by SA in the Finals
> Im not saying Dirk isnt playing great basketball, all Im saying is this is the 1st time hes actually shown leadership and hes still inconsistent with it...Dirk whooped the Griz but it was our backcourt that eeked it out vs. the Spurs(lets not act like we whooped the Spurs all of a sudden)


Lebron James was never there during crunch time against the Pistons, the only time he made a good play in the crunch time was when he made a very nice pass to Drew Gooden.

Those 3 rings Kobe has, Shaq gave those to him. Of course w/o Kobe Shaq would have not won those rings, but Shaq was the go to guy in the Lakers.

We both agree that Dirk is showing leadership, but i don't agree with you that he is inconsistent with it. How many bad games has he had during the playoffs? If you think Dirk is inconsistent, then Tim Duncan, Kobe and DWade are also inconsistent.[/QUOTE]



Dragnsmke1 said:


> Dirk has been the most consistent player but hes also had a lot of bad play in key situations...


"Lot of bad plays in key situations" Lots? You are overexagerating. MJ, Kobe, Wade and Duncan also made a lot of bad plays during their career playoffs.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> and yall are acting like Im saying Dirk sucks...


That's because you are only pointing the bad things about Dirk and not giving him much credit, can't really blame us for that.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

t1no said:


> That's because you are only pointing the bad things about Dirk and not giving him much credit, can't really blame us for that.


so I can only point out the flaws in our best player when he has bad games? I thought the whole point of a board was to discuss the team and how it could be better? Not giving him credit?!! I gave him my avatar but I will not give him a free pass when the team stumbles...if hes responsible for the wins then hes responsible for the losses...


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

I dont think there is any question as to Dirk's superiority in the NBA.

Although I hate the Mavs for beating Houston last year, they are a standout team and I sincerely hope they win this WCF. 

Dragnsmke1 - To Dirk's credit, this is Avery Johnson's first year as coach. He has utilized Dirk to his best ability and has exploited defenses very intelligently. I think now we see how great Dirk can be. with athletic guards around him, the double pressure on Dirk is aleviated and gives Dirk the freedom to do what he wishes. I was very impressed with last nights game and Dirk's complete ability to make defenders look like fools either with range, fakes (and drawing fouls at a high clip), outstanding footwork and poise.

Dirk is a top 5 NBA player only behind Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Nash.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

TManiAC said:


> I dont think there is any question as to Dirk's superiority in the NBA.
> 
> Although I hate the Mavs for beating Houston last year, they are a standout team and I sincerely hope they win this WCF.
> 
> ...


Sorry but Steve Nash is not a top 5 player.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Let me say this, when this post season is over and Dirk finally has a ring and Finals MVP trophy no body will leave him out of the discussion for best player in the league.

Dirk just became a legend, scoring 28 in 1 quarter is huge and I think it's a record ever in the playoffs.


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

t1no said:


> Sorry but Steve Nash is not a top 5 player.


Well, he just named most valuable player of the league two years in a row beating out Kobe and Lebron. I think you could make a case.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

It was for the media, no way in hell he really deserved it more than Kobe, Dirk, LeBron. I give him credit but I dont think he deserved it


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

TManiAC said:


> Well, he just named most valuable player of the league two years in a row beating out Kobe and Lebron. I think you could make a case.


Yea even thought he does not deserve the second but that does not make him a top 5 player.
Kobe 
Dirk Nowitzki
Lebron James
Dwayne Wade
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Yao Ming
Shaquille Oneal
Paul Pierce
Tmac
Vince Carter
Carmelo Anthony
Ron Artest and lots more. MVP doesn't mean you are the best player in the league, just the most valuable player in your team.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

He's top 15 for sure.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Hey t1no its Nowitness not Nowitzness lol


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## TManiAC (Dec 19, 2004)

t1no said:


> Yea even thought he does not deserve the second but that does not make him a top 5 player.
> Kobe
> Dirk Nowitzki
> Lebron James
> ...


You can argue somantics with me all day. In terms of talent, he may not be the best player. If I were to judge on talent Iverson would be far ahead of Nash. In my eyes, one who can carry the burden of his team deep into the playoffs and into the WCF is a "Top NBA Player"

Believe me, if I had it my way, I would put TMac over Nash. But judging objectively, Nash does amazing things that warrant a good argument for top 5 in the NBA.

This is all besides the point. The point of my argument is that Dirk is a player that can now be mentioned in the same breath as Larry Bird (not that the two are equal, but Dirk has the credibility to be considered as one of the great scorers in NBA history)


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## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> we did miss people for parts of the season but that was mostly KVH, Harris and Daniels that missed significant time...Stack was out for a month as was Howard but there were no significant injuries...that has nothing to do with my point anyway, Im the one that said our players are better then we act like and that we had to give Dirk such a deep team for him to be successsful...all you did was back up my point that this team is deep...
> 
> I labeled guys who have a Jordan swagger and will thier teams to a certien point no matter the lack of talent on thier team...
> 
> Dirk did let us down in the SA series..we were up 3-1...he lest us get teid 3-3 and almost lost the 20 point lead in the game 7, when we were headed into a series vs Phoenix....the game 5 jumpshot where hese blocked by Bowen after he gets a step on him to the rim, the game 6 tap back,"I didnt know how much time was on the clock" the Game 7 20 point blowout lost and thank God they gave him the foul when Ginobili tried to block him...why do we give Dirk credit fot the succes but a pass on the failures?Didnt the same thing happen against the Blazers?



*sighs* dude jordan won an nba title after he was in the league for almost 10 years. and its not like pippen, grant, armstrong, and rodman weren't allstars (players that jordan played with at various times in his career) and kukoc was a top notch sixth man. Heck craig hodges was the 3 point shootout champ. They had a great team man. And jordan always had help. In alot of the big moments in games jordan trusted his teammates to make clutch shots. He didn't always to the big shot with the game on the line. 

I don't know why you bash dirk so much man. He's been carrying this team for YEARS. Isn't it surprising that this team has gone farther than a team that had walker, jamison, daniels, howard, nash, dirk, and finley on it?

that team was "deeper" than the current mavs are talent wise. But dirk has willed this team to victory.


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## mff4l (Dec 31, 2004)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> this is exactly what Ive been saying...this is the 1st post season where he played like this...the Bowen block was his fualt, he should have never settled for a jumper in that situation...the 20 point comeback was his fualt, he should have done what he did yesterday and take over...we won that series becuase the Spurs finally made a mistake not becuase we took it...
> 
> why are we talking about Miami and Detroit? Im with you, we are better then those teams and we will be hoisting our 1st champioship trophy...Im just saying Im not gonna let 1.5 post seasons change 6 other years of play...Ill say hes stepped to Jordan status if he can be onsitent in his domenor and play like this next year..its gonna take more the 16 games to be called a turn around...



and you could say the same about mj for the first 10 or so years of his in the nba


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

I dont think anyone really understands where Drags is coming from. I must agree that Dirk is not an MJ. Kobe, Iverson, Wade, Shaq, LBJ, Duncan, and Pierce can all carry, I mean carry bad teams to on there backs. Sadly Dirk, IMO cant do that yet. There is a reason that we are the deepest team and he is surrounded with great players. These players are DOMINANT. They take over games and do it often. I hope Dirk can get to that level of Dominance soon.


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## Ninjatune (May 1, 2006)

I think we will see the Dirk that Drags is talking about in the next 5-7 years. If only Avery would have taken over a few years back.....

I think that Dirk will do nothing but get better under Avery.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> I hope yall read this with an open mind...I have admitted I was a bit harsh on Dirk in the past but he is still a Scottie Pippen to me...Not a bad person to have as your 1st option but the best thing you can have as a second option...this team still doesnt have its Michael Jordan, but it looks like if you throw 4 Scotties on a team they can be very successful...


If Dirk is a second option in this league, then how many people could possibly be a first option?


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## Cameron Crazy (Apr 25, 2006)

If i racked up 50 points in a game i would think i was a legend!


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> we did miss people for parts of the season but that was mostly KVH, Harris and Daniels that missed significant time...Stack was out for a month as was Howard but there were no significant injuries...that has nothing to do with my point anyway, Im the one that said our players are better then we act like and that we had to give Dirk such a deep team for him to be successsful...all you did was back up my point that this team is deep...
> 
> I labeled guys who have a Jordan swagger and will thier teams to a certien point no matter the lack of talent on thier team...
> 
> Dirk did let us down in the SA series..we were up 3-1...he lest us get teid 3-3 and almost lost the 20 point lead in the game 7, when we were headed into a series vs Phoenix....the game 5 jumpshot where hese blocked by Bowen after he gets a step on him to the rim, the game 6 tap back,"I didnt know how much time was on the clock" the Game 7 20 point blowout lost and thank God they gave him the foul when Ginobili tried to block him...why do we give Dirk credit fot the succes but a pass on the failures?Didnt the same thing happen against the Blazers?



There are so many things wrong with your argument though. Like first off the guys you mentioned. Kobe had the Lakers up 3-1 against the Sus. They got taken out. Whats going to happen if Detroit wins the next game, is Wade then out of the running? I would divulge more into tthis but Im tired im gonna sleep and finish it later.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

VeN said:


> There are so many things wrong with your argument though. Like first off the guys you mentioned. Kobe had the Lakers up 3-1 against the Sus. They got taken out. Whats going to happen if Detroit wins the next game, is Wade then out of the running? I would divulge more into tthis but Im tired im gonna sleep and finish it later.


Kobe and that squad he had shouldnt have even been in the playoffs much less up 3-1 on the Suns...he far exceeded the expectaions of the team this year with his pure will...

and Wade didnt let it go to 7...


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## Mavericks_Fan (Apr 19, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> Dirk is in no way dominant enough...Im not gonna let 1 50 point performance wash away alot of bad play on his part in the past years...if we cant talk bad about our players after great games when are you supposed to talk about thier shortcommings..only after bad games? didnt he just have a horrible game 3 days ago? I never said Dirk is not a great player, Im just not elevating him to top status ...when we win the championship it will be largly because of Dirk but do you not think this exact team without Dirk wouldnt have at least taken the Spurs to 7? Dirk did not singlehandedly win this game 5...he shot lights out but he wasnt blocking shots and grabbing rebounds and deflecting passes...he was setting moving screens waiting for someone else to penetrate and reaping the benifits...thats waht this team is designed for, slashers who penetrate to create open shots for Dirk and all he has to do is knock em down...now hes the best in the NBA when it comes to that...


I understand what you're saying, although I can't agree with it. It's funny, but I think both Dirk's past success and his past failures can be attributed in many ways to Nellie. Don Nelson was the first guy to ever have any belief that Dirk could be anything in the league, but at the same time as Dirk's game began to mature Nellie still always treated this team like he felt we would have to get lucky in order to win anything. That whole mentality is the biggest thing that Avery has changed since taking over, and I believe if he had been the coach 5 years ago we'd have seen a different Dirk, different team, and different playoff results.


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## Mavericks_Fan (Apr 19, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> Kobe is an MJ *(yes, although my belief in him has waivered since game 7 against Phoenix)*
> Iverson is an MJ *(disagree)*
> LBJ is an MJ *(not yet, but should be)*
> Wade is an MJ *(agree)*
> ...


And Dirk is right with any of these guys mentally after just one year under Avery's tutelage.


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## lessthanjake (Jul 4, 2005)

If the Mavs win the championship, Dirk will be a legend. NBA history is dominated by certain plays or performances in the playoffs that will be remembered forever and make the players who did it legends. Dirk has given the NBA a bunch of those just in one season.

- The last second three to send game 3 of the Memphis series to overtime. That may not be remembered for forever because it was a swept first round series but it certainly was dramatic.
- His and-1 to send game 7 vs the Spurs to overtime and eventually take the victory WILL go down in history as one of the greatest plays.
- Dropping 50 including 15 straight and like 22 or something in the fourth quarter to take game 5 of the WCF WILL also go down as one of the greatest performances. 

If the Mavs win the championship those 3 things (especially the last two), and any later heroics by Dirk (which if they win the whole thing there almost undoubtedly will be something of that sort in the Finals) will become the stuff of downright legend.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

please Dirk...prove me wrong :gopray:


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> please Dirk...prove me wrong :gopray:



wow...he willed us to victory when it was so bleak...I cant beleive we are actually going to the Championship!!!


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

Yea its Freakin amazing


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> wow...he willed us to victory when it was so bleak...I cant beleive we are actually going to the Championship!!!


Still a second option?


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

t1no said:


> Still a second option?



yes...but hes working his way there...


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

...


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

3 bad games, it's okay Dirk will be a monster at home


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Saint Baller said:


> 3 bad games, it's okay Dirk will be a monster at home


actually 4...we pulled the win out in one of them...


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Which ones? Game 1 4 and 5 are the ones I'm talkin about Game 2 and 3 he did a good job IMO


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Saint Baller said:


> Which ones? Game 1 4 and 5 are the ones I'm talkin about Game 2 and 3 he did a good job IMO



Games 1 3 4 and 5 were horrible beyond imagination for him...


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

3 was all right, off the top of my head he had 26, that's respectable...


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

1337 said:


> 3 was all right, off the top of my head he had 26, that's respectable...


not when you only take 2 shots while the other team is storming back from a 13 point deficit...


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