# Tyson Chandler and Scott Skiles now feuding too



## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

According to ESPN 1000. Carmen DeFalco said that he was at the Detroit game and Chandler got pulled for missing a defensive assignment. He said he was sitting right behind the Bulls bench and watched Tyson walk back to the bench fully cussing Skiles out. He said that he had to be kind of escorted to his seat by a couple players and/or coaches and that after Tyson sat down, he continued to berate Skiles. Then they talked about how Tyson didn't play very much at all the next night. He played, but they were saying in the third that he had gotten foul trouble and I think he had like 2 or 3 fouls. 

So now there's THAT with this team too.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Maybe the NBA should contract the Bulls.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

Doesn't sound like very good jib on Tyson's part. Then again, Paxson did give Chandler a $60+ million extension in the summer. So I guess this proves Paxson prefers talent over jib, right?

We'll see how this one is spun.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Pippenatorade said:


> He said he was sitting right behind the Bulls bench and watched Tyson walk back to the bench fully cussing Skiles out. He said that he had to be kind of escorted to his seat by a couple players and/or coaches and that after Tyson sat down, he continued to berate Skiles.


Very disappointing, if true. Both Tyson's actions, and the fact that we may have lost the Philly game due to Skiles' response....


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

We need an email to Mike!


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Wynn said:


> Very disappointing, if true. Both Tyson's actions, and the fact that we may have lost the Philly game due to Skiles' response....


Yup. I normally wouldn't believe a post like pippenatorade's, but Tyson did play suspiciously less minutes against Philly for no apparent reason.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

Wynn said:


> Very disappointing, if true. Both Tyson's actions, and the fact that we may have lost the Philly game due to Skiles' response....


Call ESPN 1000, they'll tell you that that's exactly what he said man. I HATE when people post rumors, half truths and the like. I may be guilty of a lot of things, but I rarely relay a story or a comment on the radio, and if I do I only share the facts. 

I'm mad at both. Who the hell does Tyson think he is? Ok, you don't want to show up for half the year and the whole city wants to pardon you, FINE. But then, don't pull a stunt like this on top of it. Tyson should realize that he's on thin ice as it is. And if he isn't on thin ice, then this city is a bunch of hypocrites.

As far as Skiles, I think he's just being uniform in his policies. He is what he is, we all know that. And if it was ok with Eddy and Ben and whoever else, then Skiles owes it to the guys who bring it every day like Duhon and Noce to be the same way to Tyson.


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## Zeb (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing it. He was pulled immediately and I saw he was angry (possibly yelling, was facing the other direction) but I didn't see the escort.

Edit: That said, I don't believe one heat of the moment argument and subsequent punishment neccesarily constitute a fued. We'll see what happens.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Skiles feuding with Jamal Crawford. Skiles feuding with Eddy Curry. Skiles feuding with Eddie Robinson. Skiles feuding with Tim Thomas. Skiles feuding with Ben Gordon. Skiles feuding with Tyson Chandler. Hopefully Paxson can see that there is a common denominator in all these things, if its going to come down to Gordon and Chandler, or Scott Skiles, I think you send Skiles packing.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

sloth said:


> Skiles feuding with Jamal Crawford. Skiles feuding with Eddy Curry. Skiles feuding with Eddie Robinson. Skiles feuding with Tim Thomas. Skiles feuding with Ben Gordon. Skiles feuding with Tyson Chandler. Hopefully Paxson can see that there is a common denominator in all these things, if its going to come down to Gordon and Chandler, or Scott Skiles, I think you send Skiles packing.


Yeah but Tyson Chandler is the last guy that needs to be opening his mouth right now. I'm backing Skiles on this one. And as far as Gordon goes, it's hard not to back Skiles there too.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Pippenatorade said:


> Yeah but Tyson Chandler is the last guy that needs to be opening his mouth right now. I'm backing Skiles on this one. And as far as Gordon goes, it's hard not to back Skiles there too.


For benching the best player in the clutch, when he is our best crunch time player? Publicly saying that a player was faking an injury, and calling it a black thing?


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

sloth said:


> Skiles feuding with Jamal Crawford. Skiles feuding with Eddy Curry. Skiles feuding with Eddie Robinson. Skiles feuding with Tim Thomas. Skiles feuding with Ben Gordon. Skiles feuding with Tyson Chandler. Hopefully Paxson can see that there is a common denominator in all these things


Yeah . Young immature athletes that are too precious and beyond reproach if they constantly screw up the same things that are trying to be taught to them over and over 



> if its going to come down to Gordon and Chandler, or Scott Skiles, I think you send Skiles packing.


Won't come to that

Chandler has a contract that no one around the league believes he's worth yet ( save for Zeke ) and The Bulls have him for another 5.5 seasons totally out our choice 

We have Ben for another 2.5 seasons , again , totally at the choice of the organisation

Everyone is going to have to accept that this litter is going to sharing the pound for a long time

If these guys want to be the best they can they should start showing some more disclipline ,and if possible , try to develop some smarts in the arena of basketball IQ and grow the **** up .

Problem is is that you are not dealing with worldly grounded people ..they have had it drilled it into their head that they are special since junior high or whatever. Its an unreal and unnatural way to grow up that doesn't allow them to mature and develop intelligence

A lot of these guys are mental refugees

You can soft soap or you can apply the cattle prod 

The cattle prod has a more dramatic and lasting effect over time if you are serious about building and maintaining the pecking order. You don't have to love the bald , sexually repressed sadist that is applying it but you get to learn real consequences for your own actions and have them constantly reinforced


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

I know there are couple of posters here who would secretly enjoy reading this sort of news regarding Bulls. Am I wrong?


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

sloth said:


> For benching the best player in the clutch, when he is our best crunch time player? Publicly saying that a player was faking an injury, and calling it a black thing?


I don't know man, I've been pretty harsh on Skiles and Paxson when it's called for it, but Skiles I think is one guy who has done a good job this year. He didn't ask for any of the Eddy Curry stuff to go on, AND honestly, I credit Skiles with putting Curry in the best situation Eddy could have been in with his skills last year. Skiles formulated a gameplan to capitalize on Eddy's strengths and neutralize his weaknesses. Eddy was thriving before the heart thing and before that, no coach could get him to stay on the court and not utterly blow balls. Skiles was the one that figured out that channeling the entire gameplan through ANTONIO DAVIS was the way to get CURRY AND CHANDLER to be more effective and then that effectiveness flowed through and made the rest of the guys better. Eventually it became a resolving circle where everyone was fitting their talents in, and everyone was benefitting from guys who brought what they didn't bring. He had 12 guys all making each other better.

To me, I don't think you can deny that Tyson Chandler is regressing here. Taking almost half the season off, and now this? I respect Skiles more because Tyson is "Pax's guy" and he doesn't give a rats bleep. I've never had issue with Skiles. I do realize that inevitably the team will tune him out and he will have to be let go, but we all knew that going in. If Tyson knew what was good for him, he'd know that you don't show up game before game 43 and then have 12 GOOD games and then start cussing out the coach. Tyson should be mr. Mute the rest of the season and I see him having a real future. 

I don't expect Skiles to make chicken salad out of chicken bleep and I think he's doing a good job. If Ben gets pulled for a mistake so should Tyson. And Tyson of all people should learn to shut up about it.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

Zeb said:


> I'm pretty sure I remember seeing it. He was pulled immediately and I saw he was angry (possibly yelling, was facing the other direction) but I didn't see the escort.
> 
> Edit: That said, I don't believe one heat of the moment argument and subsequent punishment neccesarily constitute a fued. We'll see what happens.


It wasn't an escort per se. It was more like a couple guys getting up in front of Tyson when he was already near his seat and just telling him to calm down and then everyone sat down. That's what DeFalco said


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

sloth said:


> Skiles feuding with Jamal Crawford. Skiles feuding with Eddy Curry. Skiles feuding with Eddie Robinson. Skiles feuding with Tim Thomas. Skiles feuding with Ben Gordon. Skiles feuding with Tyson Chandler. Hopefully Paxson can see that there is a common denominator in all these things, if its going to come down to Gordon and Chandler, or Scott Skiles, I think you send Skiles packing.


I should also point out that Robinson is out of the NBA - Tim Thomas is on his way to being out of the NBA . 

Jamal Crawford is unwanted on the Knicks of all teams and is a marginal NBA player 

Eddy Curry is a marginal NBA player 

Both players , save for Eddy last season with the Bulls , have been losers their entire career and are deficient in skill bases/ decision making required fundamental for the position they play in their 6th and 5th seasons respectively - that's around 450 games of pro basketball for Jamal and 400 games of pro basketball for Eddy

The common denominator I see is whether Chandler and Gordon want to follow the same path as these losers - and they are losers - you can't refute that , or whether they want to get every ounce of what they've got and be winners

At this point its really up to them and there is absolutely no one else to blame if it doesn't happen for them

No one


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

sounds like a _really_ good time is to be had tonight at the bulls charity dinner.

the fans show up and none of the bulls are speaking to each other! 

:angel:


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

chandler has no one to be upset with but himself. anyone who watches basketball can see he picks up the dumbest of fouls as good as any player i've ever witnessed. further, chandler is (i can only presume) is well aware of his value ON THE COURT with respect to his defensive and rebounding contributions. picking up stupid out of position fouls, reaching fouls or offensive fouls for illegal picks (is he ever going to learn how to set a good and proper screen?) have nothing whatsoever to do with skiles. he snatched hinrich for throwing a dumb pass that AI stole and dunked; no player seems to be exempt from skiles' requirement of proper offensive and defensive execution. 

i'm certain skiles has drilled the basics into this team by this time, therefore for chandler to be upset with the coach doesn't fly in my book. chandler also picks up fouls in bunches., leading the coach to snatch him because he's not the kind of player who can play through mistakes.

skiles is a hardass, and from the tone of the posts here there's a mixed bag of those for and against his coaching here in chicago. however, i'm of the opinion that given hard working, talented, and smart players, skiles will suceed as a coach.

popovich is a hardass in SA, and they're not kicking him to the curb; LB is a hardass and look where the NY team compared to the bull; it all depends on the scenario. requiring players to play mistake free ball is not a negative, allowing uncoachable players to call the shots is.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

When it comes to Tyson, I too, must side with Skiles. Chandler has got to learn and he needs to have it drilled into him constantly. Screaming at the coach at a game isn't tolerable either.

You don't want the coach to call you out, don't call out the coach in front of everyone either.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Did he say if it was clearly directed to Skiles? You know, could have just yelled out swears out of frustration, heat of the moment, all that stuff. Even if this is Tyson's fault, this can't fare well with the players, with most of them suffering the same consequences in the past. Then again, coaches aren't always players' best friends, but I have always hated the possibility of Skiles using a grudge to cost the team a game, and that Philly game was important


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

Interesting story. I wonder why none of the beat writers have addressed it. Not great behavior on Tyson's part, but I hope that's not why he only played 18 minutes against the Sixers.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> I should also point out that Robinson is out of the NBA - Tim Thomas is on his way to being out of the NBA .
> 
> Jamal Crawford is unwanted on the Knicks of all teams and is a marginal NBA player
> 
> ...


If Curry (who by the way has started 91 games more than Chandler) is a loser, then how is Tyson Chandler not a loser? They played on the same teams the last 4 years. Curry started most of the season for the winner. Tyson started 10 games last year. He was so good in fact that when Eddy went out, didn't Skiles start Othella? What a joke. 

Chandler cusses the coach out (and that's what it was. DeFalco said he stood there for over 10 seconds and cursed Skiles to pieces) and Eddy Curry is a loser.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

BullSoxChicagosFinest said:


> Did he say if it was clearly directed to Skiles? You know, could have just yelled out swears out of frustration, heat of the moment, all that stuff. Even if this is Tyson's fault, this can't fare well with the players, with most of them suffering the same consequences in the past. Then again, coaches aren't always players' best friends, but I have always hated the possibility of Skiles using a grudge to cost the team a game, and that Philly game was important


No, DeFalco said he was right there and Chandler walked back to the bench and cussed Skiles out the whole way, and then stood there still cussing him out. I mean the guy was sitting at point blank range.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

well, this is crappy news. But hopefully it was a short-lived blow up in the heat of battle. I hope it didn't bleed over into the Philly game - I think Skiles knew how important that game was and wouldn't have left bullets in the chamber because of something like that, but I'm just guessing.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

Pippenatorade said:


> If Curry (who by the way has started 91 games more than Chandler) is a loser, then how is Tyson Chandler not a loser? They played on the same teams the last 4 years. Curry started most of the season for the winner. Tyson started 10 games last year. He was so good in fact that when Eddy went out, didn't Skiles start Othella? What a joke.
> 
> Chandler cusses the coach out (and that's what it was. DeFalco said he stood there for over 10 seconds and cursed Skiles to pieces) and Eddy Curry is a loser.


I never said Tyson wasn't a loser 

I was talking about common denominators in response to sloth's post and the assertion that our organisation can't deal with "the talent"


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> The cattle prod has a more dramatic and lasting effect over time if you are serious about building and maintaining the pecking order.


Actually, a cattle prod has less effect over time. Just like Skiles act. It will be interesting to see if Pax saves any money for the summer of 2007. If he really works to save for that better FA class, Skiles may be on his last lap and 1/2.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

johnston797 said:


> Actually, a cattle prod has less effect over time. Just like Skiles act. It will be interesting to see if Pax saves any money for the summer of 2007. If he really works to save for that better FA class, Skiles may be on his last lap and 1/2.


Well, if that was Pax plan all along, he wouldnt have extended Skiles for the next 4 years.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> Actually, a cattle prod has less effect over time.


"The floggings will continue until morale improves."


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

EDIT Carmen also reported that Skiles was challening Detroit Pistons players to fight him. What kind of coach does that? This is the same guy that challenged Shaquille O'Neal to a fight. There is obviously a few screws loose in this guy's head. And he is the common denominator in all these "feuds". He has insecurity issues. That's why he can't handle "star" players and is always challenging people to fights.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Where did you read about Skiles challenging some Pistons?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> There is obviously a few screws loose in this guy's head.


Don't get carried away, MAMBA. He's insecure because he's bald and short, not because he's crazy.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

El Chapu said:


> Where did you read about Skiles challenging some Pistons?


On ESPN 1000 this morning. Carmen Defalco explained the happening of this when he was courtside for the latest Bulls/Pistons game.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

ScottMay said:


> Don't get carried away, MAMBA. He's insecure because he's bald and short, not because he's crazy.


I didn't say he was insecure because he WAS crazy... He may not even know he is crazy. And whats with you always responding to my posts in "Don't get carried away..", lol?


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

The MAMBA said:


> On ESPN 1000 this morning. Carmen Defalco explained the happening of this when he was courtside for the latest Bulls/Pistons game.


The only person to report that, so I dont believe it.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

El Chapu said:


> Well, if that was Pax plan all along, he wouldnt have extended Skiles for the next 4 years.


No, it wasn't the plan....but **** happens.

He is a little too slick afterall.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

johnston797 said:


> Actually, a cattle prod has less effect over time.


I agree 

Remaining on old McSkilepax's farm for a minute ( ye yi ye yi yo ) a dead horse can only be flogged for so long before you survey the beast and actually contemplate if what you need may be a horse whisperer

One of the main philosophical tenents of a variety of Eastern religions - and I will use Zen Buddhism as an example , is to break the individual down to their low point where they then find the essence of their being - and at that point of self enlightenment and wisdom comes facilitative teaching/counsel

Hey ..I'm not saying Skiles is so Zen baby- all I'm saying is that this is not much different to developing people in any community - whether it be personal / family or whether it be in academia or in your professional / working life 

If you take the parent / child example ... there is a time when the kid thinks they know it all and they have it all figured out in the protected bubble that they live , where you have to a) prepare them and b) protect them .

Be prepared for the resentment and icy relations if you have the discipline to stay the course instead of just giving in and pandering to their unrealistic view of themself and the world if it is quite obviously crap and you know it to be so 

There's the hard lessons that are learnt by rote and consequence at the early developmental stages out of "negative reinforcement" because they don't have the maturity to learn and know the lesson personally , or perhaps they have the inkling of knowing , but still can't get sufficient self control to make the right decisions

When reasoning and intelligence kicks in and consequence is fully understood and respected that's when you have to let go and open up a more facilitative approach as opposed to a more hard line fire and brimstone approach

The hardest lessons and the ones that have best reinforcement are the ones where its your call and your responsibility and your screw up or your victory next time around if you take personal responsibility to atone 

Relating this back to our guys we're an immature team in terms of our not being fully grown into our potential , and we have diminished decision making that has cost us at least 5 games this year ( which could be the difference between a playoff berth or not ) and there are some that are at the forefront of this team that can't look the offcials in the eye and converse for the purpose of self betterment - a sign of immature interpersonal skills that contributes to him being held back with erratic inconsistency

So at the moment these are not seasoned wordly people in the artificial world they inhabit

The sum of all these issues and the actuality of the results in the how and why of it all give me comfort in the view that the worse thing you could do with these guys is brownnose them and be the friend. Sure fire way to stunt their development and not do justice to what they need ( which is the truth in what they need to succeed in their world )

Authority is needed and yeah the phase of negative reinforcement is still apt right now , UNTIL , they can prove they can operate within the boundaries that have been set and be sucessful 

Once that point is reached ..back the truck up - put the cattle prod away and bring in the horse whisperer

Which begs the question : Can Scott Skiles be that guy when that time is required ?

Or do you have to go knocking on Phil Jackson's door ?


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

El Chapu said:


> The only person to report that, so I dont believe it.


I have to agree with you here. I'll stop short of saying that Carmen Defalco is flat out lying but a lot of this doesn't really add up to me and I refuse to accept something just as fact because a radio personality reported it. 

First of all why hasn't any other media source corroborated the report? Chandler walked off the court, stood up facing Skiles for one mississippi, two mississippi...all the way to ten shouting obscenities at him and none of the cameras capture the action and none of the beat writers witnessed the incident or deemed it newsworthy? Please. On a team built largely based on the players' makeup and generally devoid of controversy (aside from players who no longer suit up for the team) this should be a big story.

My other beef is that this type of behavior from Chandler under the circumstances would be quite shocking. First and foremost, while Chandler admittedly did not work hard enough in the past offseason he's considered to be a gamer, a leader, and more or less a good guy (think of how often he's quoted in the paper, shaving his head with his cancer striken uncle, how distraught he was after a high school friend was shot last season, etc.). As far as I can tell there is scant to no evidence to suggest Chandler is the type of player who instigates a shouting match with the head coach. Let me know if there is some previous incident I have overlooked that suggests otherwise. Furthermore, how did Chandler even know why Skiles pulled him? Why would Chandler be so furious with Skiles if he DID know he was pulled for making a mistake? Also, why would Chandler politely behave when he was relegated to 15-20 minutes coming off the bench and then wait until his averaging 30 minutes a game, starting, and playing in crunch time to throw a fit over being pulled for a handful of possessions?


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

JeremyB0001 said:


> I have to agree with you here. I'll stop short of saying that Carmen Defalco is flat out lying but a lot of this doesn't really add up to me and I refuse to accept something just as fact because a radio personality reported it.
> 
> First of all why hasn't any other media source corroborated the report? Chandler walked off the court, stood up facing Skiles for one mississippi, two mississippi...all the way to ten shouting obscenities at him and none of the cameras capture the action and none of the beat writers witnessed the incident or deemed it newsworthy? Please. On a team built largely based on the players' makeup and generally devoid of controversy (aside from players who no longer suit up for the team) this should be a big story.
> 
> My other beef is that this type of behavior from Chandler under the circumstances would be quite shocking. First and foremost, while Chandler admittedly did not work hard enough in the past offseason he's considered to be a gamer, a leader, and more or less a good guy (think of how often he's quoted in the paper, shaving his head with his cancer striken uncle, how distraught he was after a high school friend was shot last season, etc.). As far as I can tell there is scant to no evidence to suggest Chandler is the type of player who instigates a shouting match with the head coach. Let me know if there is some previous incident I have overlooked that suggests otherwise. Furthermore, how did Chandler even know why Skiles pulled him? Why would Chandler be so furious with Skiles if he DID know he was pulled for making a mistake? Also, why would Chandler politely behave when he was relegated to 15-20 minutes coming off the bench and then wait until his averaging 30 minutes a game, starting, and playing in crunch time to throw a fit over being pulled for a handful of possessions?


Well my response would be that he's played 18 minutes and 19 minutes in the two games since then. He's averaging 26.3 MPG for the year. No one has said he's hurt. If there is no beef, then wtf is a guy we're paying 60 million (or whatever) not even cracking the 20 minute threshold? I'm even MORE pissed if he DIDNT say anything because then I think a guy who is making that much not playing 20 minutes in the two games since is freakin retarded!


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Pippenatorade said:


> Well my response would be that he's played 18 minutes and 19 minutes in the two games since then. He's averaging 26.3 MPG for the year. No one has said he's hurt. If there is no beef, then wtf is a guy we're paying 60 million (or whatever) not even cracking the 20 minute threshold? I'm even MORE pissed if he DIDNT say anything because then I think a guy who is making that much not playing 20 minutes in the two games since is freakin retarded!


Well he had five fouls in last night's game. He wasn't in fould trouble that serious against Philly but he did sit a lot of minutes in the first half because he picked up two quick fouls. That has been consisent during Skiles tenure, if a player picks up two fouls early he will sit out most of the first hfl. I know this because I complain about it constantly.

You would think that if Chandler's minutes suddenly dropped off in the midst of a mamoth hot streak it would only create more incentive for the media to search for a story and that they would hear about the altercation from Chandler, Skiles, another player, or someone who heard Falco on the radio.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Well he had five fouls in last night's game. He wasn't in fould trouble that serious against Philly but he did sit a lot of minutes in the first half because he picked up two quick fouls. That has been consisent during Skiles tenure, if a player picks up two fouls early he will sit out most of the first hfl. I know this because I complain about it constantly.
> 
> You would think that if Chandler's minutes suddenly dropped off in the midst of a mamoth hot streak it would only create more incentive for the media to search for a story and that they would hear about the altercation from Chandler, Skiles, another player, or someone who heard Falco on the radio.


I don't think he played much of the third quarter at all and he didn't have four fouls at that time. I don't know what to tell you man. Sounds like a Paxson fan who doesn't want to accept it because of how it further paints the picture might have incentive to disbelieve it? Just a shot in the dark. I could be wrong.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

"attack the source" on Carmen DeFalco?

He did the freaking pre-game show for the Bulls for years.

Granted, ESPN1000 is not going to be carrying the Bulls games after this season (Paxson will have to add a new number to his speed dial if he feels the need to take on callers) but still, I don't see Carmen just making **** up out of the blue.

Perhaps he was the only one sitting close to the action? Perhaps there is an unwritten rule saying you don't report on what the players and coaches are yelling at each other during the game, or else you don't get an interview? Perhaps this kind of thing happens all the time?

Attack the source, attack the source, attack the source. Gotta love it.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I'd like to think that a team is more like a family than it is like the military. You respect your parents, they set the rules, they control most of your life, but you don't always have to be happy about it. It'll get you in more trouble if you whine but it's not against the law.

In the military, you whine, you'll get hard punch in the face and the wind kicked out of you.

Skiles is more like a stern dad, a principal of a private high school, but not like a military commander. And I think Chandler has some right to blow up once in a while. The guy's frustrated; it's not against the law to exercise free speech, even if it's probably not a great idea. Now if it comes to a Salim Stoudamire incident, where Skiles calls on Chandler to go back in the game and he gives a ton of attitude or even refuses to go back in, it becomes a bigger problem.

As for Skiles calling out the Pistons, it's a little odd but I don't think he has some hatred for the Pistons on some personal level. On the Score, Skiles said he voted for all five Pistons for the All-Star team, including Tayshaun, because they all were worthy of it.

Stuff blows over. Players and coaches tiff all the time; a hungry journalist that is looking to make some kind of news on a team headed for an unspectacular, but not horrible, non-playoff record when the fan base is starving for something... it's not unusual to hear something like that be talked about with more seriousness than really it needs to be given.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

Showtyme said:


> I'd like to think that a team is more like a family than it is like the military. You respect your parents, they set the rules, they control most of your life, but you don't always have to be happy about it. It'll get you in more trouble if you whine but it's not against the law.
> 
> In the military, you whine, you'll get hard punch in the face and the wind kicked out of you.
> 
> ...


Why give him the benefit of the doubt? Why? Because he's Paxson's guy? It would be one thing if this guy didn't miss HALF the season, but he did. And now he's frustrated? Why? If he is, it should be at one person - himself.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I for one can't really think of a reason why DeFalco would make it up. In the world of Bulls journalists/radio personalities, he seems to me to be one of the more reliable/solid characters.

That said, it doesn't really rustle my feathers if it's true. I think in competitive sports this sort of thing is more common than really gets acknowledged. I certainly was prone to a swearing bout or two in my day.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

jnrjr79 said:


> I for one can't really think of a reason why DeFalco would make it up. In the world of Bulls journalists/radio personalities, he seems to me to be one of the more reliable/solid characters.
> 
> That said, it doesn't really rustle my feathers if it's true. I think in competitive sports this sort of thing is more common than really gets acknowledged. I certainly was prone to a swearing bout or two in my day.


But I think two things swing the pendullum. One, he took half a season off. Two, he continued to sit in his seat, lean forward staring at Skiles and kept swearing and running his mouth. Had he just had words on the way back to the bench, and had he decided to show up in October, I wouldn't even have given De Falco a second thought.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Pippenatorade said:


> But I think two things swing the pendullum. One, he took half a season off. Two, he continued to sit in his seat, lean forward staring at Skiles and kept swearing and running his mouth. Had he just had words on the way back to the bench, and had he decided to show up in October, I wouldn't even have given De Falco a second thought.



Oh, I agree. I'm not saying I think Tyson is justified. It's a punk move. I just think it happens often. Within the context of his hugely disappointing season, it certainly does look worse. I wasn't really thinking about it in those terms. I was just saying something along the lines of, "I'll bet players swear at their coaches with more frequency than people normally think." It doesn't make it right. However, Skiles is a big boy and I doubt he really gives a flying you know what.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

jnrjr79 said:


> Oh, I agree. I'm not saying I think Tyson is justified. It's a punk move. I just think it happens often. Within the context of his hugely disappointing season, it certainly does look worse. I wasn't really thinking about it in those terms. I was just saying something along the lines of, "I'll bet players swear at their coaches with more frequency than people normally think." It doesn't make it right. However, Skiles is a big boy and I doubt he really gives a flying you know what.


It frustrates me because I used to be a BIG Tyson Chandler fan. It pains me to say this, but I now never see him being any better than a more defensive less offensive version of Otis Thorpe. He could be better than that, but I don't see it. And that's upsetting, because for years I backed this guy. After this offseason, and the different treatment he got from Paxson as compared to Curry and Duhon, and then the way he didn't show up, I was DONE.

But I agree, this season DOES magnify things like this.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I feel exactly the way you do pippenaroade in your last post except I am not done with him yet. Next year is critical imo. Will he do the work this summer or is he another Kandi or someone similar that got their pay and now they coast for a while? We shall find out by next season.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> I feel exactly the way you do pippenaroade in your last post except I am not done with him yet. Next year is critical imo. Will he do the work this summer or is he another Kandi or someone similar that got their pay and now they coast for a while? We shall find out by next season.


Well I will say this though True. Everyone always has the chance to turn things around with me. I've tried to learn not to deal in conclusions with people, but in presumption. The presumption with me is that he's done. I don't buy all this "well the Bulls don't ask him to score" crap. BS. Then for him to be good he needs to make the all defensive team and average at least 12 RPG. Because Rodman did that and STILL didn't make All-Star teams. 

However, as with Paxson, Curry or pretty much anyone else I am or am not a fan of, Chandler will always have a chance to turn the presumption in the other direction by coming out with 10 more lbs. of muscle, SOME one-on-one offense (at least a threat), and more like 12 RPG. Believe it or not, I once was done with Eddy Curry. But when he lost weight and proved to me that he could be a big part of a winning team, despite his weaknesses, he turned things in a different direction with me. Enough for me to ROOT for him. I'm not saying he's all great. At some point I realized he is what he is. It's tough to see him with the WRONG players next to him in NYK, because last season I saw what he can do when he's with players like Noce, Hinrich, Duhon, Davis, etc.

One more thing I'd add. People would probably think that Chandler is a "Bobby Knight" type of guy. And to me, nothing could be further from the truth. Knight differs from Skiles in one key aspect. One of his biggest rules is "you have to be able to put the ball in the basket." Simply playing very good defense, and then trying your hardest on offense, but not being able to put it in the hoop has never been enough for Knight.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

You may be right pippen. We shall see. 

No, he is not a bobby knight player. He rebounds and plays D yes, but Knight wanted all players to play the complete game. For a center or even a pf, that includes passing and scoring. Chandler screens pretty well. That is also part of Bobby's style. 

Curry is another player I will be watching next season. I said all summer and most of the early season that I felt Eddy was going to have a bad year. He signed a huge contract and plays about the way he did for us. To me thats bad. His down time from having a heart condition really hurt his game imo.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Pippenatorade said:


> I don't think he played much of the third quarter at all and he didn't have four fouls at that time. I don't know what to tell you man. Sounds like a Paxson fan who doesn't want to accept it because of how it further paints the picture might have incentive to disbelieve it? Just a shot in the dark. I could be wrong.


I remember being frustrated that Chandler did not return earlier in th 4th during the Philly game. Either way. I generally appreciate what Pax has done with the club but he doesn't quite have my undying support at this point. The reason I have trouble accepting this account is because as I previously explained it is completely at odds with my assumptions of Chandler's personality, the motivating factors of someone in his situation, and how sports media works. When confronted with a claim that makes little to no intuitive sense, one is inclined to question the claim unless confronted with indisputable evidence. I hardly think that exists here and furthemore no one is really offering possible explanations for the questions I raised aside from "Well Defalco saw it so it happened".


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> "attack the source" on Carmen DeFalco?
> 
> He did the freaking pre-game show for the Bulls for years.
> 
> ...


Haha. If you're referring to my post you could not be more off base. At what point did I ever attack DeFalco? I think I used his name one time and it was to go out of the way to state I was not accusing him of lying. If my post was full of statements that DeFalco has motives to fabricate stories and that his credibility is lacking that'd be one thing. Instead all I did was question the logic of the events he reported. I don't think there is any member of the media from who I would not have questioned this story without some minor form of corroboration.

I suppose it is possible no other member of the media was seated near DeFalco. That strikes me as unlikely though since near the bench seems the most common and sensible place for the media aside from the press box. Furthermore as I mentioned previously, there are numerous cameras filming a televised game, and shot of the bench are often featured prominently. It's strange the local tv stations or ESPN wouldn't have picked up on the story. Regardless, when an interesting story hits the presses, it is generally picked up by other members of the media. AP stories you read on ESPN.com and sometimes even a story that runs in the Trib or Sun Times will contain phrases along the lines of "As first reported by the Daily Herald...".

I find it even less likely that Chandler instigating a screaming match with the head coach on the bench during a game and the media either believe this was not something fans are interested in hearing about or that fear of losing interview opportunities led reporters to stray away from a major story. Altercations between players and their teammates or coaches tend to be the biggest story in the NBA these days. Fans and reporters obsess about the supposed bad attitudes of today's players so any story in support of that theme is a big deal. Additionally, there is no way players or coaches can expect the entire local sports media to keep quiet when an altercation very visibly took place in front of countless fans, cameras, refs, opposing players, coaches, teammates etc. That would be a pretty vast conspiracy and someone would violate the unwritten rule to get the big story. 

I guess you could alledge that the incident was difficult to notice and only someone with the perfect seat DeFalco had would have been able to witness the action but that would be in direct contradition to the description in previous posts that Chandler stood, faced Skiles, and loudly shouted four letter words for ten full seconds.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> I for one can't really think of a reason why DeFalco would make it up. In the world of Bulls journalists/radio personalities, he seems to me to be one of the more reliable/solid characters.
> 
> That said, it doesn't really rustle my feathers if it's true. I think in competitive sports this sort of thing is more common than really gets acknowledged. I certainly was prone to a swearing bout or two in my day.


I had meant to mention that I never intended to imply DeFalco would completely fabricate the story out of the blue, only that he could have misheard, misunderstood, or got a little carried away and exagerated a bit.

As for the second half of this post and the previous post that characterized Skiles as a "stern dad", I think those takes are completely different from the tone set throughout the rest of this thread. Skiles seems to have a reputation as a disciplinarian so I never had the impression he would openly tolerate verbal abuse from his players. Who knows though? Maybe he frequently talks to the players this way and encourages that type of emotion from his players. It seems unlikely to me but if that's true then presumably this happens all the time, the target of the outburst couldn't care less, and this isn't even worth starting a thread about. That would also undermine my contentions that Chandlers purported actions seem shocking and unreasonable and that it is extremely puzzling that other sources aren't reporting this story. It's just that few other posters seem to believe that and it would strike me as somewhat surprising.


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