# Al Harrington for Alvin Williams



## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

What does everyone think of this trade? I personally think this one is actually fair. I'm not sure how much Harrington would be needed in Toronto but I know we could use Alvin Williams, he is really good in my opinion and would be a good PG for the team.

Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (12.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 30.1 minutes) 
Indiana receives: PG Alvin Williams (13.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 5.3 apg in 33.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +1.0 ppg, -3.1 rpg, and +3.8 apg. 

Toronto trades: PG Alvin Williams (13.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 5.3 apg in 33.9 minutes) 
Toronto receives: PF Al Harrington (12.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 82 games) 
Change in team outlook: -1.0 ppg, +3.1 rpg, and -3.8 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

The only reason I might not consider this is because it looks like we may be losing Brad Miller which would mean we need Al Harrington.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I like Alvin but I also like Al. I don't think we are really improving with the trade so I'd have to pass unless there is no other point guard available to us in free agency.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

Toronto has 2 PF with more potential than Harrington, so I don't think they will accept this trade.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Toronto would do that in a second. Harrington plays SF more than he does PF. Also Antonio Davis I believe is Al Harrington's mentor. When Al first came into the league he lived with AD and Ad taught him everything he knew. But the Pacers wouldn't do it.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> Toronto would do that in a second. Harrington plays SF more than he does PF. Also Antonio Davis I believe is Al Harrington's mentor. When Al first came into the league he lived with AD and Ad taught him everything he knew. But the Pacers wouldn't do it.


The only way Toronto would be willing to make this deal is if a good point guard was sent our way, and a swingman was sent to Indiana. If it was Harrington/Tinsley for Williams/Lamond Murray or Williams/Mo Pete, then the trade would make sense for the Raptors. We can't give up AW without getting a first-string PG, because it would leave us with only Milt Palacio to run the point (Lindsey Hunter will likely be bought out).


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

If we were not willing to give up Al to get Gary Payton then we are definatley not willing to give him up for Alvin Williams.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

And plus yall have "Skip To My Lou" Rafer Alston.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> And plus yall have "Skip To My Lou" Rafer Alston.


He isn't on their team right now, and probably won't be back. Their backup for next season will be Milt Pilacio at this point.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

I know he is just one of my fav. players.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

No way do the Pacers make this deal. It might look good on paper but if the Pacers won't move Al to save Brad they aren't going to move him unless they get an all star back. They(and I) are that high on him.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

Your team needs to trade either bender or harrington. Its a waste to have both.....and a waste to play your guys out of position to do so.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

and keeping harrington instead of miller is just STUPID!! Miller is a much rarer commodity, and a bigger difference-maker in winning games.


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## Jason The Terryble (Jul 22, 2003)

No. Now that Brad "ILL Always Be Average" MIller is gone Pacers have room for Bender & Harrington. Harrington could start at PF with JO at C, and that would free up room for Bender to either start at SF or be the backup SF.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> and keeping harrington instead of miller is just STUPID!! Miller is a much rarer commodity, and a bigger difference-maker in winning games.


We tried to trade Al to keep Harrington but nothing worked out.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> What does everyone think of this trade? I personally think this one is actually fair. I'm not sure how much Harrington would be needed in Toronto but I know we could use Alvin Williams, he is really good in my opinion and would be a good PG for the team.
> 
> Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (12.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 30.1 minutes)
> ...


The only reason Toronto wouldn't do the trade is because they would get screwed. Starting PG for a crappy tweener.:sour:


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## Jason The Terryble (Jul 22, 2003)

Pacers could get much better than Alvin "Below Average 4 Life" Williams. Al Harrington is a 6'9" 250 lb. 23 year old manbeast who can play SF or PF. Hes got defensive player of the year potential not to mention 20/10/3 potential. So why give him up for a scrub on a garbage team? No offense Raptor fans.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jason The Terryble</b>!
> Pacers could get much better than Alvin "Below Average 4 Life" Williams. Al Harrington is a 6'9" 250 lb. 23 year old manbeast who can play SF or PF. Hes got defensive player of the year potential not to mention 20/10/3 potential. So why give him up for a scrub on a garbage team? No offense Raptor fans.


Thats true, no way I would do this, we can get alot more for Harrington.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

Calling Alvin W a scrub shows you know nothing about basketball. He was probably our most valuable player last year. 

In fact, not probably -- he WAS our most valuable player last year.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

let me put it this way....you guys are all over trying to trade for jason terry. I wouldn't trade alvin for terry straight up.

I bet you would b/c you're blinded by superficial stats......and know nothing about what it takes to win games.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> In fact, not probably -- he WAS our most valuable player last year.


I like Alvin Williams, but that is a little sad.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> I like Alvin Williams, but that is a little sad.


I agree with you there, I personally think Alvin Williams is good, but now that I think about the trade proposal, we'd be better off with Harrington.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>cram</b>!
> and know nothing about what it takes to win games.


Oh but of course Alvin Williams does. I mean he wins games all the time.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>cram</b>!
> let me put it this way....you guys are all over trying to trade for jason terry. I wouldn't trade alvin for terry straight up.
> 
> I bet you would b/c you're blinded by superficial stats......and know nothing about what it takes to win games.


Of course I would, thats commen sense.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TLR</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh but of course Alvin Williams does. I mean he wins games all the time.


LMAO :laugh:


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

> Pacers could get much better than Alvin "Below Average 4 Life" Williams. Al Harrington is a 6'9" 250 lb. 23 year old manbeast who can play SF or PF. Hes got defensive player of the year potential not to mention 20/10/3 potential. So why give him up for a scrub on a garbage team? No offense Raptor fans.



I would probably have to agree that Harrington has more potential than Alvin Williams, but that's not the whole story. Alvin probably plays harder than anyone in the whole league and that should not be undervalued. He also, natural position or not, plays one of the 2 most difficult positions to fill in the NBA. Finally, you haven't seen much of Alvin Williams if you think he's a scrub. I am more than willing to recognize the talent Harrington has and his star potential, but you're pretty far off base by calling AW a scrub. You would love him if you had him. That much I can guarantee. 

This whole discussion is sort of a moot point, because we are not trading our only point guard for a position where we are already crowded (3 or 4). Rafer is alston is no longer on the raptors and he's no more capable of starting than tinsley, anyways.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> This whole discussion is sort of a moot point, because we are not trading our only point guard for a position where we are already crowded (3 or 4). Rafer is alston is no longer on the raptors and he's no more capable of starting than tinsley, anyways.


Yea, I understand why neither teams would do this trade.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

> Hes got defensive player of the year potential not to mention 20/10/3 potential.



What is this based on? 

20 points, 10 boards and 3 what?

blocks?
- harrington has 80 blocks in his CAREER. That's a little less than one every three games. maybe that's what you meant by the 3.

steals?
- less than 1 a game in his best season

assists?
- doubtful and unimpressive? 
- never more than one and a half


I'm not sure if you've ever even watched Al Harrington play. He has unlimited potential on offence, but a defensive stopper he is not.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

He is not a defensive _stopper_ per se. but he is a good defensive player and can actually guard someone which is saying a lot for today's NBA. Also I believe he could eventually average 3 assists once he gets all of his post moves down (the turnaround is unguardable) he will get double teamed a lot which will open up passes for people to hit jumpers.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

It's pretty rare that a player doubles his assist totals after being in the league for this long, but I suppose it's a possibility.

My point was not to insult his defence, but rather to point out that it is ludicrous to mention defensive player of the year when talking about harrington. He's probably the fourth best defender on the pacers. 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this Terry guy was talking about blocks, which is absolutely ridiculous. I would say he will do that the same year that Alvin Williams averages 20 point and ten assists.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> I'm not sure if you've ever even watched Al Harrington play. He has unlimited potential on offence, but a defensive stopper he is not.


What are you saying??? It may not show in his stats but just look at what he did to T-Mac that night. Al is a great defensive player, right behind Artest.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

Well about Harrington on D, he is a spectacular defender, just because he doesn't have the stats doesn't mean he isn't a good defender. He is 2nd to Ron Artest on D to the Pacers.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>crimedog</b>!
> It's pretty rare that a player doubles his assist totals after being in the league for this long, but I suppose it's a possibility.
> 
> My point was not to insult his defence, but rather to point out that it is ludicrous to mention defensive player of the year when talking about harrington. He's probably the fourth best defender on the pacers.
> ...


I agree he cant get 3 blocks a game, but steals or assist are possible if he gets alot of minutes.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

Oh come on. All of a sudden, Harrington's better than O'Neal at defence???

I can't be anymore diplomatic here. I agree Harrington's a great player, but you are definitely overvalueing him.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

> I agree he cant get 3 blocks a game, but steals or assist are possible if he gets alot of minutes.


No, They aren't. They just aren't. Al Harrington will never average 3 steals a game and he will most likely never average 3 assists a game. Why would he? He hasn't shown anything that indicates that he will. I'm not being unreasonable here. Al Harrington is not an all-star, but you wouldn't know it on this board.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>crimedog</b>!
> Oh come on. All of a sudden, Harrington's better than O'Neal at defence???
> 
> I can't be anymore diplomatic here. I agree Harrington's a great player, but you are definitely overvalueing him.


Harrington has always been valued on D for us, it's always been like that, anyways what kinda response do you expect from Pacers fans? It's not like we're gonna say one of our potential all-star players sucks at defense. I'm not sure how he compares to O'Neal on D, anyone know how many BPG he got last year?


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> Harrington has always been valued on D for us, it's always been like that, anyways what kinda response do you expect from Pacers fans? It's not like we're gonna say one of our potential all-star players sucks at defense. I'm not sure how he compares to O'Neal on D, anyone know how many BPG he got last year?


I would say Al is a better defensive player when it comes to shutting down a player and stop them from scoring. But JO kills him in the stats.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> I would say Al is a better defensive player when it comes to shutting down a player and stop them from scoring. But JO kills him in the stats.


Thats what I was thinking, kinda like how Kobe didn't have superb D stats but he still made the first defensive team.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats what I was thinking, kinda like how Kobe didn't have superb D stats but he still made the first defensive team.


Yea, thats mostly what defense is about, stopping the opponet from scoring.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I would have to agree with the Raptors fans here. Harrington has GREAT potential on offense but his defense is nothing spectacular. That's OK. We already have the best perimeter defender in the NBA in Artest and a great interior defender in O'Neal. We don't need Harrington to be a great defender. But let's not pretend that he is one. Remember when Artest shut down Pierce in the playoffs, but as soon as Isidiot Thomas put Harrington on him and big leads disappeared like whack-a-moles? First Game 1 in the 4th quarter, then Game 4 in the 3rd quarter. I should know, I was at Game 4, and I had to deal with stupid Celtics fans throwing garbage at me during that Celtics run. :hurl:


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

Thank you ArtestFan. That's all I was looking for. No disrespect intended to Harrington's game. I like him a lot.

As far as Kobe, he had over 2 steals per game and almost a block per game last year. I'd call those pretty superb D stats for a 2 guard.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

Hmm funny that people are putting down Harrington's D because I thought his D was awesome. I wasn't really happy with his D last year as before because of that injury, but he can really lock down a star when healthy.


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## Jason The Terryble (Jul 22, 2003)

Atlanta
Boston
Chicago
Cleveland
Dallas
Denver
Golden State
Houston
LA Clippers
Memphis
Miami
Milwaukee
New Orleans
New York
Orlando
Philidelphia
Pheonix
Portland
San Antonio
Seattle
TORONTO
Utah
Washington

Al Harrington would be THE DEFENSIVE STOPPER if heplayed for any of those teams. He just happens to be playing with a guy named Artest, who overshadows him.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jason The Terryble</b>!
> Atlanta
> Boston
> Chicago
> ...


Great point, Harrington is just held back by Artest.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Tinlsey
*Artest
Harrington
O'Neal
Pollard*

4 of our 5 starters are good to great defenders! And Tinsley is good at making steals just not man to man defense. If we don't have a top 5 defensive team then something is wrong.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

Who is Pollard great/good at defending? He is tough but not a great/good defender. I would say average. He is just an average center, really. He won't rack up alot of points or rebounds for real but he will know his role and that's the key for success on this team.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> Who is Pollard great/good at defending? He is tough but not a great/good defender. I would say average. He is just an average center, really. He won't rack up alot of points or rebounds for real but he will know his role and that's the key for success on this team.



Did you even watch the guy at Sacramento? That was part of the reason he even had a job was because of his defense. He would bang in the post and rack up rebounds in limited minutes. I'm saying he is a good defender because he is big and no one can back him down (except Shaq).


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

He is not a great defender.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

I said he was a good defender.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

Decent.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Above average.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

You trippin.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

He is an above average defender for a big guy. And I'm sure I could get people to support me on that.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

I really aint seem he play alot other than when he got floored by Shaquille.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

He only played like 20 games this year though.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> I really aint seem he play alot other than when he got floored by Shaquille.


Please tell me who didn't get "floored" by Shaq? Also he has missed a bunch of games this last year, but he is completely recovered. And 2 seasons ago he was the 7th man for the Sac Kings. He brought hussle and toughness in the lane. Good defense and solid rebounding. In the east I think that equates to a double double on average.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TLR</b>!
> hussle


Hustle!


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> Hustle!



I know how to spell hustle dip****. Ever heard of a typo?


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

:laugh: :laugh: PMS'ing


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Yeah that's real funny. I'm surprised you know what that is. Did your mommy tell you or has that point in your life already come?


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

:laugh: Im a playa durti, no passion marks nor hickies.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> :laugh: Im a playa durti, no passion marks nor hickies.



English, please.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

Sorry Xavier, but we don't want any attacks here


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

Just a warning Bunk, be careful with who you piss off because there are already some mods that have tried to get you banned.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

Sorry Tic, he was just starting to get on my nerves. It wont happen again.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> Sorry Tic, he was just starting to get on my nerves. It wont happen again.


Don't worry about it, I just hope Bunk and TLR quit their pointless arguing, it makes this board look bad.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> Don't worry about it, I just hope Bunk and TLR quit their pointless arguing, it makes this board look bad.


I just found another topic with thier arguments.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> I just found another topic with thier arguments.


Make that 2 :no:


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> Make that 2 :no:


I found them to, I'm closing the threads they did it in.


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