# Big MIN/MEM trade involving O.J. Mayo



## Floods

just saw it on sportscenter. link coming!


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## Blue

OMG! ESPN just said Mayo, Walker, Jaric to Memphis 4 Love, Mike Miller, and I think maybe Conley......wow. I dont even know what to think right now..


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## Floods

I guess this ain't official yet, b/c i cant find links anywhere.

I least I have a fellow witness in Blue Magic. :biggrin:


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## Peja Vu

http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-draft-forum/405335-mayo-heads-memphis-love-minnesota.html


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## OneBadLT123

Now the Wolves send Miller to Houston for our picks/head/Hayes for Mike Miller

I dream, I know.


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## Floods

Peja Vu said:


> http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-draft-forum/405335-mayo-heads-memphis-love-minnesota.html


i hate you


:azdaja:


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## Avalanche

this is a ****in disgrace... 

****!!!!


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## Floods

Least you got Mike Miller and another guy to play down low with Big Al.


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## Wade County

Shocker...McHale does it again...

So Jefferson is a fulltime 5 now?

PG - Foye
SG - Miller
SF - Brewer
PF - Love
C - Jefferson

right?


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## NewAgeBaller

> The Minnesota Timberwolves aren't holding onto O.J. Mayo for long.
> 
> Two league sources told ESPN.com that the Wolves have reached an agreement in principle with the Memphis Grizzlies that will send the draft rights of *Mayo, Marko Jaric, Antoine Walker and Greg Buckner* to the Grizzlies in return for the draft rights to *Kevin Love, Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal and Jason Collins.*


Man, wtf are you doing Minnesota?? This just came out a decent draft, don't screw up here..

Mayo (star prospect) + Walker (big expiring) + Jaric (crap/bad contract) + Bucker (who cares) --> Love (solid-good prospect) + Miller (good sixth man) + Cardinal (crap/bad contract) + Collins (crap/bad contract?).

.. And Memphis doesn't need any more guards!!


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## moss_is_1

wow... i hate this.


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## NewAgeBaller

This is pathetic that McFail can run a star prospect out, just cause he likes a certain player..


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## ScArFaCe23

Tonight, we have just witnessed the death of the Franchise known as the Minnesota Timberwolves Organization and their beloved fans including myself.


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## moss_is_1

What is the reasoning for doing this trade? Or we planning on playing any defense?


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## Blue

If i lived in Minny McFail would already be shot by now. :banghead:

:king::rocket: :king::rocket::king::rocket: :king::rocket:


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## The Solution

i'm working on it as we speak


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## slufool

McHale McHale McHale how long is this going to last? What a joke.


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## The Solution

He's really testing my fan hood


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## Mateo

****ing pathetic. The one time we land a potential superstar in the draft and McHale throws him away. I'm ****ing disgusted right now. Nothing against Love, but this is BULL****.


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## Tom

If it makes you feel any better the rumors I have heard from people in Cincy said he didn't want to spend one minute in Minny.


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## Avalanche

if i was a player id be more inclined not to play in minny because of the management then the actual city


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## JerryWest

wow


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## JuX

*palms my face*

What the **** are you doing, McHale?


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## JuX

Tom said:


> If it makes you feel any better the rumors I have heard from people in Cincy said he didn't want to spend one minute in Minny.


Then they probably hold the award as the wussiest city in the country. Kidding. C'mon, it's not as bad.


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## Ruff Draft

I have read everywhere that Mayo wouldn't play in Minne. Even though that punk said he had no problems.

TALENT wise Miller & Love >>> Mayo

We dumped all of our garbage, and got some cheaper piles of ****.

I like the deal for the talent, but KEVIN LOVE IS A POWER FORWARD. AL JEFEFRSON IS NOT A CENTER. F**K ME.

Kevin Love better play some damn good man defense.


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## DaBabyBullz

Well, that's pretty interesting, and not surprising at all to me. As I mentioned in another thread I started yesterday, there were rumors of them trading back, and I even mentioned Mike Miller as a guy they take back, though the rumors were for Joe Alexander. Kevin Love is definitely a McHale pick though, as he has a raging hard on for post players. As I said when discussing Love and Jefferson, I really don't like that pairing, as you are getting big beefy PFs, not a C. You either need to pair Jefferson with a PF like Tyrus Thomas who is athletic and defensive, or with a big center so he can play PF. They aren't the same player, but are too similar to group in the post for my liking. 

With that said, I really do like the 2 players the Wolves brought in, but I think that Mayo really should've been the pick. So unless there's something behind the scenes, like Mayo refusing to play in MN, this wasn't a good move. 

Another aspect to look at, is the Wolves had no real SG, unless they would've ran with Brewer at the 2 with Mayo at the 1. Brewer is just defense at this point, and has no offense, so idk how well he'd work as a starting 2. Foye and Mayo are redundant from what little I've seen. 

Foye
Miller
Brewer
Love
Jefferson

That isn't a bad lineup, potentially anyway. I'm looking forward to seeing it anyway.


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## Mateo

The purpose of trading down is to acquire another draft pick or another young player or SOMETHING. We traded bad contracts and also got Mike Miller.... a good player but not useful for a team in the early stages of rebuilding. I mean, the Grizzlies have 3 young PGs and we can't get ANY of them? WTF is wrong with this organization?


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## luther

I couldn't be happier. This is a very good trade. I know nobody else thinks so, but in my opinion, the only ways in which it becomes a bad trade are 1) Mayo becomes a superstar (not a Michael Redd / Rip Hamilton guy, but a Kobe Bryant guy) _and_ Love is not a legit starter; 2) Love is absolutely TERRIBLE, i.e. cannot play at all; or Miller or Love dies. Yes, there is a chance Mayo does become that superstar, and if that's the case, we ****ed up. But I don't think he will. I know everyone loves him, but we just added a really good player in Miller (no, not an all-star, most likely never will be; but a very good player), an almost certainly good player in Love, a role player who will fill a need and then clear cap room in Collins, and a bad contract (but hard worker) in Cardinal, which is better than Jaric at the very least, not to mention Walker's cancerous ***. I really understand people liking Mayo: he's very talented. But I also think he's being a bit blown up at this point as some kind of savior. And in turn, Love is being undervalued in my opinion. I haven't read a single quote from a scout or coach saying he won't be a good player--it's just fans or media guys who, frankly, I don't trust at all because their job has very little to do with knowing what they're talking about. I was ready to give Mayo a chance. I hope you're all ready to give the new guys here a chance.


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## Mateo

luther said:


> I couldn't be happier. This is a very good trade. I know nobody else thinks so, but in my opinion, the only ways in which it becomes a bad trade are 1) Mayo becomes a superstar (not a Michael Redd / Rip Hamilton guy, but a Kobe Bryant guy) _and_ Love is not a legit starter; 2) Love is absolutely TERRIBLE, i.e. cannot play at all; or Miller or Love dies. Yes, there is a chance Mayo does become that superstar, and if that's the case, we ****ed up. But I don't think he will. I know everyone loves him, but we just added a really good player in Miller (no, not an all-star, most likely never will be; but a very good player), an almost certainly good player in Love, a role player who will fill a need and then clear cap room in Collins, and a bad contract (but hard worker) in Cardinal, which is better than Jaric at the very least, not to mention Walker's cancerous ***. I really understand people liking Mayo: he's very talented. But I also think he's being a bit blown up at this point as some kind of savior. And in turn, Love is being undervalued in my opinion. I haven't read a single quote from a scout or coach saying he won't be a good player--it's just fans or media guys who, frankly, I don't trust at all because their job has very little to do with knowing what they're talking about. I was ready to give Mayo a chance. I hope you're all ready to give the new guys here a chance.


Forget about who you like better between Mayo and Love..... clearly Mayo has more VALUE than Love on the market, which is why he was projected to be the 3rd pick (and was the 3rd pick). But we didn't CAPITALIZE on that value by demanding much for him. Mike Miller is not a long term part of this team, you and I both know this. Memphis has 3 young PGs and we couldn't demand even 1 of them in the deal? It's beyond sad.


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## Avalanche

Miller/Jefferson/Love = worst defensive front line in the league


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## Ruff Draft

I am starting to love this deal.

I will ONLY regret it if Mayo turns into Kobe and not Jamal Crawford with defense.


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## luther

Avalanche said:


> Miller/Jefferson/Love = worst defensive front line in the league


Luckily Brewer is quite possibly the starting SF. My guess is Miller starts at SG. (Moving that awful defensive presence to SG with Miller/McCants)


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## luther

Mateo said:


> Forget about who you like better between Mayo and Love..... clearly Mayo has more VALUE than Love on the market, which is why he was projected to be the 3rd pick (and was the 3rd pick). But we didn't CAPITALIZE on that value by demanding much for him. Mike Miller is not a long term part of this team, you and I both know this. Memphis has 3 young PGs and we couldn't demand even 1 of them in the deal? It's beyond sad.


I whole-heartedly agree that it would have been great to get Conley or Lowry in addition to what we got. (I haven't seen enough of Crittenden to say whether I'd like him on the team, but I have no doubts that I like the other two, albeit in different ways.) But even so, we unloaded what we did not want, got one really good player (who--long-term answer or not--is under contract for two years, which is as long as a rookie first-rounder is guaranteed...), got another good prospect in Love whom I don't think is _as far_ beneath Mayo as people say, added some size we need, even though it's not particularly good. I feel like we got more than we gave, even though Mayo may turn out the best individual player involved. (I also am not sold on that possibility. I acknowledge it is a possibility, but refute that it's an inevitability.)


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## Ruff Draft

Brewer still isn't think enough to hold down opposing forward. He needs to add muscle before I glue him in at the 3. Right now he is a 2 than can guard the occasional 3. Eventually he'll be guarding every wing player.


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## luther

Ruff Draft said:


> Brewer still isn't think enough to hold down opposing forward. He needs to add muscle before I glue him in at the 3. Right now he is a 2 than can guard the occasional 3. Eventually he'll be guarding every wing player.


He did a pretty damn good job most of last year, in my opinion. For a rookie, I thought he had great moments against top threes and twos.


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## Ruff Draft

Great moments. I love when he was on the floor too, but he can't hold it down for as long as we need.


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## luther

Ruff Draft said:


> Great moments. I love when he was on the floor too, but he can't hold it down for as long as we need.


Couldn't. Not the same as can't. (How about some optimism? He's going to get better.) I think as an athletic, hard-working player with the right attitude, he's going to be fine.


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## moss_is_1

luther said:


> Couldn't. Not the same as can't. (How about some optimism? He's going to get better.) I think as an athletic, hard-working player with the right attitude, he's going to be fine.


All he needs to do is hit the weight room every day after he hits the gym. He's weak and his shot is terrible.lol


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## jokeaward

Wow, I'm a bit stunned here. What's with all the negativity? We got rid of Jaric!

This is closer to a masterstroke than a blunder. Mayo isn't guaranteed to do anything. He was underrated for a while but that ran out. Love is underrated because he isn't 6'11. Amare might have one inch on him. Brand doesn't, Bosh maybe an inch, Horford doesn't, etc.

Mike Miller is 28, not 33. He might also be a better player than Mayo ever would be here. Who's a bigger long-term piece, Jaric or Miller?

How is Brian Cardinal a bad contract? 6.2M this year and next. Collins expires.


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## luther

jokeaward said:


> Wow, I'm a bit stunned here. What's with all the negativity? We got rid of Jaric!
> 
> This is closer to a masterstroke than a blunder. Mayo isn't guaranteed to do anything. He was underrated for a while but that ran out. Love is underrated because he isn't 6'11. Amare might have one inch on him. Brand doesn't, Bosh maybe an inch, Horford doesn't, etc.
> 
> Mike Miller is 28, not 33. He might also be a better player than Mayo ever would be here. Who's a bigger long-term piece, Jaric or Miller?
> 
> How is Brian Cardinal a bad contract? 6.2M this year and next. Collins expires.


you're kind of the jesus to my john the baptist, more or less.


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## moss_is_1

jokeaward said:


> Wow, I'm a bit stunned here. What's with all the negativity? We got rid of Jaric!
> 
> This is closer to a masterstroke than a blunder. Mayo isn't guaranteed to do anything. He was underrated for a while but that ran out. Love is underrated because he isn't 6'11. Amare might have one inch on him. Brand doesn't, Bosh maybe an inch, Horford doesn't, etc.
> 
> Mike Miller is 28, not 33. He might also be a better player than Mayo ever would be here. Who's a bigger long-term piece, Jaric or Miller?
> 
> How is Brian Cardinal a bad contract? 6.2M this year and next. Collins expires.



It was just that we all grew on OJ over the months leading up to the draft I think, since he was the guy we thought we would get. When we picked Mayo we were happy becuz we made him out to be a huge superstar, but he may not be that and I really dont think he will be now. I've grown onto this trade and now i really like it. We get rid of 3 bad contracts/players for 2 and a pretty good player. I think this trade is pretty even now.


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## jokeaward

Mayo might be like Randy Moss. Love might also be all we need, too.

Think Elton Brand lite.


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## Ruff Draft

luther said:


> Couldn't. Not the same as can't. (How about some optimism? He's going to get better.) I think as an athletic, hard-working player with the right attitude, he's going to be fine.


As of right now he can't. I haven't heard a word about him sizing up this off-season.


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## Mateo

jokeaward said:


> Wow, I'm a bit stunned here. What's with all the negativity? We got rid of Jaric!
> 
> This is closer to a masterstroke than a blunder. Mayo isn't guaranteed to do anything. He was underrated for a while but that ran out. Love is underrated because he isn't 6'11. Amare might have one inch on him. Brand doesn't, Bosh maybe an inch, Horford doesn't, etc.
> 
> Mike Miller is 28, not 33. He might also be a better player than Mayo ever would be here. Who's a bigger long-term piece, Jaric or Miller?
> 
> How is Brian Cardinal a bad contract? 6.2M this year and next. Collins expires.


Neither Jaric nor Miller are going to be on a Timberwolves team that makes the playoffs. Period. So we traded down in the lottery for essentially nothing in return. The Grizzlies have 3 young PGs and we couldn't get ANY of them.


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## NewAgeBaller

jokeaward said:


> Wow, I'm a bit stunned here. What's with all the negativity? We got rid of Jaric!
> 
> This is closer to a masterstroke than a blunder. Mayo isn't guaranteed to do anything. He was underrated for a while but that ran out. Love is underrated because he isn't 6'11. Amare might have one inch on him. Brand doesn't, Bosh maybe an inch, Horford doesn't, etc.
> 
> Mike Miller is 28, not 33. He might also be a better player than Mayo ever would be here. Who's a bigger long-term piece, Jaric or Miller?
> 
> How is Brian Cardinal a bad contract? 6.2M this year and next. Collins expires.


Miller will likely leave when his years are over, which is the whole problem with the trade. Miller's supposed to make up for the talent/potential drop from Mayo to Love, but the best he'll likely do is help you stay in mediocrity as an under-dog fringe play-off team.

And yes, Cardinal is most definately a bad contract - why do you think Grizzly fans are so ecstatic at any opportunity at unloading him?
Are you saying because he only had 2 years left, Antoine Walker wasn't a bad contract last year? Not to mention (believe it or not) Walker is actually more talented than Cardinal..


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## Ruff Draft

I don't see why Miller is an automatic loss. He has already stated he likes it here and expects to do good things for the Minnesota organization. We will have him for almost all of his prime years.


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## jokeaward

Mediocre type teams are winning the draft. Chicago, Portland, Milwaukee... definitely poor but not the worst teams.

None of these players might be on a good Wolves playoff team. But they have to try, they can't rebuild only with players under 28 and only as if the roster will be mostly intact in three years. We had KG, Wally, Spree, and Sam in May 2005. The Bulls kept adding good players and became good before this weird year. The Pistons didn't add one true star, just very good players.

Couldn't we trade Miller again, later? Does he have a no-trade clause?

They wanted to add a shooter in the draft and Miller shoots better than Mayo. Mayo is not Oscar Robertson, people. Say he's Joe Johnson redux, that would not make us a 50 win team. 

Two years is the perfect contract length. I like having Jefferson locked up but what if he breaks his hip?


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## Ruff Draft

Yeah, I'm getting really excited about the team next year. It's rare that you find so many players on a team that all want to to be a piece of the puzzle, and who aren't just looking to advance their own careers. Once our team chemistry develops, I think we're going to surprise some people.


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## Blue

I hope your right, cuz im not sold on this Mayo deal like some of you guys are....hopefully ur right tho. Miller is a solid player, but Mayo could've been special.....


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## Ruff Draft

I really like Mayo too, but he could still be a bust. Kevin love has such a complete game it'll be one hell of a pick. The only thing we know his game needs to improve on is defense, and he has groomed himself quite nicely over the summer. He measured just as well in everything as the other leading forwards in this draft.


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## luther

jokeaward said:


> Couldn't we trade Miller again, later? Does he have a no-trade clause?


Very close to nobody in the NBA has a no-trade clause in his contract. In fact, Kobe might be the only guy who has a contract that says he can reject any trade. There are certain other circumstances that can limit your teams ability to trade you, but none apply to Miller at this point, I don't think. (There is a waiting period to be traded a second time, but I think you have to suit up first, so because it's the offseason that doesn't apply. Otherwise it's things like accepting an offer sheet for a one-year deal, then being dealt--you can reject that because you'd lose Bird rights.) So yes, we could trade him again if we had to. But I don't see any reason to.


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## Ruff Draft

Mike Miller is here to stay!


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## luther

Blue Magic said:


> Miller is a solid player, but Mayo could've been special.....


Or he could end up no better than Miller. There's no guarantee he's anything special in the NBA, whereas Miller has proved himself to be a very solid NBA player. Of course we have to let it play out to know for sure. But we dealt away one prospect and trash for one player, one prospect and semi-useful trash. I like it.


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## luther

On the subject of Miller's feelings on being here (above it was discussed whether he'd re-sign, be part of our plans, etc.), Sid Hartman wrote in today's Star Tribune:


> Mike Miller, the Mitchell, S.D., native who came to the Timberwolves in Thursday's draft-day deal with the Memphis Grizzles, is thrilled with the trade.
> 
> "Absolutely it's a coming- home party," Miller said. "It gives me a chance to come here, and hopefully I'll have an opportunity here to finish out my career. To be a part of the Timberwolves, a team I always watched growing up and always wanted to be a part of, and now I've got that opportunity. So hopefully I'll finish my career here."
> 
> Miller said he was happy when he got a call from his agent about midnight the day of the draft.
> 
> "It does make me feel pretty good, so hopefully I'll give them a reason for why they wanted me," he said. "It will be a fun challenge."
> 
> Miller, who has two years left on his contract, said the trade is a bonus because he is a die-hard Vikings fan.
> 
> He said he always enjoyed coming back to play at Target Center.
> 
> "Yeah, I played pretty well there," Miller said. "Now I get to play 41 games there a year, so it should be fun.
> 
> "I think it's going to be a great opportunity for me. I think you get guys now like Al Jefferson and Randy Foye and now Kevin Love, and some of these other young guys, it will give them a chance to maybe ... see single coverage a little more. ... And open the floor for Randy Foye, so he can drive and get in the lane. So it will be a great opportunity for me as long as I'm making shots for these guys."


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## Ruff Draft

luther said:


> On the subject of Miller's feelings on being here (above it was discussed whether he'd re-sign, be part of our plans, etc.), Sid Hartman wrote in today's Star Tribune:


:clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## jokeaward

Mayo will probably resemble Ben Gordon but better, and Love is like Webber or older Karl Malone. 

There, I said it.


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## Ruff Draft

My Pistons are on track for another choke-job. I am a Wolves fan this year


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## Mateo

Well glad he says that. I just hope he doesn't change his mind when he sees dollar signs in a couple of years.


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## JuX

That's a good thing.


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## DaBabyBullz

Surprised you guys are as positive about it as you are lol. I figured you'd all be furious about trading away Mayo. I love that there's a 3rd SD boy leading pro sports teams in MN now (Greenway and Leber, starting OLBs with the Vikes), and a Beach Boy's nephew anchoring the post for the Wolves lol. It all depends on how long Miller stays and how good Love is vs Mayo. To be perfectly honest, I was shocked when the Wolves selected Mayo. I wasn't the least bit surprised when he was traded for Love though.


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## luther

Well personally, I wasn't ever sold on Mayo. I was resigned to him, I had accepted him, but I wasn't in love with him. So to get another prospect I like just as much (in some ways less, in others, more) in Love and a very good player in Miller. But if you go back a few pages, you're going to find plenty of rage from some others about the trade.


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## DaBabyBullz

I skimmed the whole thread lol. To me, I've mixed feelings on the trade. I like the 2 guys they got better than Mayo, but IDK if they'll be BETTER. So the team is probably more interesting to me, and if I get moved to the twin cities (which I'd do if I ever got off of here and WoW and looked for a job lol) I might actually go to some games when the Bulls aren't in town. When I lived there a few years ago, I never even considered going to any Wolves' games unless the Bulls were in town, in which case I got a lower lvl seat right behind the Bulls' bench. 

This trade does set them up much better for right now than Mayo would, as they now should have proven quality guys at the 1, 2 and 5, along with Brewer and Love (I'm assuming) who should be pretty good this season. They're all pretty young too, with Miller being the only one close to 30. Hopefully the Celtics tank and they get some high picks out of that trade and can grab a few more pieces in the next year or 2.


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## pac4eva5

my new favorite rookie:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NaqxreC2wgo


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## Mateo

To me it comes down to this. This team needs a second star. If Mayo turns into a star and Love doesn't, the deal is a failure. If Love turns into a star and Mayo doesn't it's successful. If they are both stars then it's a wash, same if neither. But I can't say I'm optimistic giving our recent draft history.


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## jokeaward

Teams need rosters not stars. Who was the second star for San Antonio in 2003? Maybe Stephen Jackson? Parker?

Kobe and Shaq '04 learned that as well. Wade in '06 also had a star in name only.


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## luther

I think the Detroit model, to an extent, is another great potential one. Yes, at times Billups, Hamilton and the Wallaces played like stars, but nobody much considered them stars (at least not consistently) until they won a title. If Minnesota has good players who feed off each other and play better because of each other, they can be a roster of near-stars even though independently, they aren't star-level players. Jefferson, Foye, Miller, McCants, Brewer and Love could be part of such a group. Of course I'd rather continue to upgrade, but I don't know that they NEED that true star. And what's more, I'm not sure Mayo is more of one than Love.


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## DaBabyBullz

History has shown time after time, that a superstar is almost a necessity to win, and definitely a necessity to win multiple championships. I would argue that Rasheed Wallace is one of the most talented players ever, with his unique size and skill-set. He just doesn't assert himself enough to establish himself as a true superstar. But when he wants to, he can do just about anything. I honestly think he's better than KG by far, IF he only had a brain lol. Then the rest of the Pistons are pretty damn good, but it's mainly due to defense and getting BS calls routinely. MN's version of the Pistons, with a bunch of good players but no true superstars, is not going to work unless they play much better D. There is potential there, but I think to win a championship they have to get a lot bigger impact player than anyone on their roster. Sheed >>>>> any TWolf right now by a long ways.


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## Mateo

We don't even have more than 1 above average player, so going to the Detroit model at this rate is going to take decades.


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## jokeaward

Yeah, if only Sheed... and Darius Miles... and Jerome James, and Jon Bender

They beat the Lakers because they smothered every player besides Kobe and Shaq (on 2+ days of rest). They struggled to reach 10 points.

As far as rebuilding, there will have to be a masterstroke (KG, Duncan, Nash).


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## NewAgeBaller

I've somewhat warmed up to the trade. I still think you should have just kept Mayo and called it a night, but wateva..


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