# The Mavs are better than the wolves?



## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

Ok Ok, lets settle this right now. For all you Mav fans out there, lets say it together, Twolves 7 straight years playoff exits first round. Ok we happy now? we all know what the twolves have done in the past, this is the future. Look at what the twolves have had over these past 7 years, a young garnett and marbury who didnt stay together, no point guard in the playoff(Brandon was always hurt), washed up/overratted players(peeler, Smith, Wally). Thats right, the wolves have lost 7 straight years, with ONE player, and i repeat. Garnett has been by him self the past 7 years to see near playoff wins against Seattle, Lakers. Now lets look at this year, the additons of Spree and Cassell can only improve us. For you idiots who say the wolves are 5th seed at best should stop talkin on this board. The wolves had 1 player last year and had 50+ wins and was the 4th seed, and would have beat portland in the playoffs if they would have been the 5th seed. Adding 2 guys that can score 20+ points a night makes us worse??? Thats rediculus! Lets take a look, Dallas added jamison, San Antonio added Rasho, Heduk and Mercer wow, SacTown added Brad Miller, great! LA is the only team other than the Wolves to improve this off season. Dallas lost Van Exel, and if it wasnt for him, Dallas would have gone nowhere in the playoff last year. Yea, you add a 20+scorer in Jamison, but you lose more in Van Exel. No Center. Bradley and Lafrenz. Kandiman is better than both those combined. dallas fans can always say 7 straight years. or 83 points in a first half. WOW. Say this one with me, Biggest halftime comeback ever, a struggling Lakers against who, the MAVS. Twolves will win the midwest this year, mark my words. Spree is not washed up, never has he been with this much talent. Cassell is back in the west where he won 2 rings, and than Kandi man is stronger than Rasho and got him for less money. Wally will have more open looks, Hudson is improving and KG is STILL THE BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME HANDS DOWN. Dallas will win its fair share of games, but wont finish above the wolves, kings, spurs, and lakers in the standings. Even Houston maybe. Dallas fans, before you talk about fan being optimistic, Tell money bags Cuban to buy some D to go with that O of yours, cuz until then, Mavs wont do anything spectacular. Holla at me. I said my peace.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

wow one post and you are already making friends.... 

No one is saying that you guys have not improved, cause you definetely have. Kevin McHale, with a lot of luck, has done a job i didnt think possible. I just dont think they have improved enough. I look at minny as the blazers when they first got put together. Soo much talent, just not enough shots. Im telling you right now: at some point this year there will be a publicized fued between two players on the twolves, and my bet is one of the players is wally. I remember reading an article way back in the day about how him and kevin werent getting along cuz WS had begun stealing passes from other team-mates to get his own shots. Can you imagine with how he is gonna deal with being the forgotten one. Not only does dallas have a better offense than minny, they know how to use their offense better. Much like KG, Dirk is improving every year. Short of Finley and maybe Nash no one has even reached the peaks of their career. Im also willing to bet that cuban finds someone who is willing to take mills expiring contract (hope and pray for cleveland) for a player that will be a more traditional DAL sixth man.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

The blazers made the western conference finals when they got put together, am i not mistaken. Dallas uses its o better than minny ya, til now minnesotas o was KG. Putting Dirk and KG in the same sentence is like compairing pippen and jordan, both are great players, but ones better. While dirk may improve, he cannot rebound, play d, and do as much for his team that KG does for the wolves. I give dirk respect, great player, better shot than kg, but look what the mavs did last year without him in the playoffs, they still won. Take garnett off the wolves, they get swept last year. And to this feud that you say will happen, ya so, i bet one will, and im sayin its wally with everyone. But thats gonna stop the team from winning? Look at LA during their 3 title run, Kobe and Shaq were constantly at it, did that stop them? Wally will not see much change in his stats for this one reason, more options. Last year it was KG and Wally people looked for to stop. wally tried doing TOO much, which made him look bad. Now, with Spree and cassell, people cant gun at just 2 guys because there are 2 more there that can hurt you just as bad. wally wil be open more, have a weaker defender on him, and will still average 15+ a night this year. Finley is aging, Nash is also, and you say no other player has primed? Who else do you have other than dirk, jamison, nash and finley? Bradley, najara, lafrenz, bell isnt even signed, theres noone on the bench that can hurt anyone. Minny has Hudson coming off the bench, and i see him putting up number like, not as good, as Van Exel did at the 6 man spot. Kandiman is just coming into his own, and take he never played basketball til he was in college and was a number 1 pick, he needed time and he is coming around. Dallas may have added more size that they needed, not enough. You got Kandiman, rasho, Yao Ming, Shaq, Miller and Vlade on teams dallas is fighting with for the top spot, and noone and Dallas can compare to anyone of those guys. Jamison isnt even a top 6 pf in the west. KG, Duncan , Malone , Cwebb, Brand and Rasheed are all better than jamison. Jamison is a great player, will give you scoring, but is that what dallas needs is scoring?? dallas will fall to the 5 spot this year, playing the lakers in the first round and getting swept. Then we will see who is laughing.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

The blazers made the western conference finals when they got put together, am i not mistaken. Dallas uses its o better than minny ya, but until now minnesotas o was KG. Putting Dirk and KG in the same sentence is like compairing pippen and jordan, both are great players, but ones better. While dirk may improve, he cannot rebound, play d, and do as much for his team that KG does for the wolves. I give dirk respect, great player, better shot than kg, but look what the mavs did last year without him in the playoffs, they still won. Take garnett off the wolves, they get swept last year. Mchale got lucky??? he lost Rasho, lost Juwan howard who committed to minny. Got Cassell and Spree in a trade? Were is the Luck in that. Its bout time he did something in the offseason. Every year nothing happens in the offseason for the wolves, and they STILL improve in WINS and STANDINGS. Now you bring in some help for the games best player and thats spells for some postseason sucsess. And to this feud that you say will happen, ya so, I agree with you 100 percent, i bet one will, and im sayin its wally with everyone. But thats gonna stop the team from winning? Look at LA during their 3 title run, Kobe and Shaq were constantly at it, did that stop them? Wally will not see much change in his stats for this one reason, more options. Last year it was KG and Wally people looked for to stop. wally tried doing TOO much, which made him look bad. Now, with Spree and cassell, people cant gun at just 2 guys because there are 2 more there that can hurt you just as bad. wally wil be open more, have a weaker defender on him, and will still average 15+ a night this year. Finley is aging, Nash is also, and you say no other player has primed? Who else do you have other than dirk, jamison, nash and finley? Bradley, najara, lafrenz, bell isnt even signed, theres noone on the bench that can hurt anyone. Minny has Hudson coming off the bench, and i see him putting up number like, not as good, as Van Exel did at the 6 man spot. Kandiman is just coming into his own, and take he never played basketball til he was in college and was a number 1 pick, he needed time and he is coming around. Dallas may have added more size that they needed, not enough. You got Kandiman, rasho, Yao Ming, Shaq, Miller and Vlade on teams dallas is fighting with for the top spot, and noone and Dallas can compare to anyone of those guys. Jamison isnt even a top 6 pf in the west. KG, Duncan , Malone , Cwebb, Brand and Rasheed are all better than jamison. Jamison is a great player, will give you scoring, but is that what dallas needs is scoring?? dallas will fall to the 5 spot this year, playing the lakers in the first round and getting swept. Then we will see who is laughing.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TDaddy25</b>!
> The blazers made the western conference finals when they got put together, am i not mistaken. Dallas uses its o better than minny ya, til now minnesotas o was KG. Putting Dirk and KG in the same sentence is like compairing pippen and jordan, both are great players, but ones better. While dirk may improve, he cannot rebound, play d, and do as much for his team that KG does for the wolves. I give dirk respect, great player, better shot than kg, but look what the mavs did last year without him in the playoffs, they still won. Take garnett off the wolves, they get swept last year. And to this feud that you say will happen, ya so, i bet one will, and im sayin its wally with everyone. But thats gonna stop the team from winning? Look at LA during their 3 title run, Kobe and Shaq were constantly at it, did that stop them? Wally will not see much change in his stats for this one reason, more options. Last year it was KG and Wally people looked for to stop. wally tried doing TOO much, which made him look bad. Now, with Spree and cassell, people cant gun at just 2 guys because there are 2 more there that can hurt you just as bad. wally wil be open more, have a weaker defender on him, and will still average 15+ a night this year. Finley is aging, Nash is also, and you say no other player has primed? Who else do you have other than dirk, jamison, nash and finley? Bradley, najara, lafrenz, bell isnt even signed, theres noone on the bench that can hurt anyone. Minny has Hudson coming off the bench, and i see him putting up number like, not as good, as Van Exel did at the 6 man spot. Kandiman is just coming into his own, and take he never played basketball til he was in college and was a number 1 pick, he needed time and he is coming around. Dallas may have added more size that they needed, not enough. You got Kandiman, rasho, Yao Ming, Shaq, Miller and Vlade on teams dallas is fighting with for the top spot, and noone and Dallas can compare to anyone of those guys. Jamison isnt even a top 6 pf in the west. KG, Duncan , Malone , Cwebb, Brand and Rasheed are all better than jamison. Jamison is a great player, will give you scoring, but is that what dallas needs is scoring?? dallas will fall to the 5 spot this year, playing the lakers in the first round and getting swept. Then we will see who is laughing.


Posted it twice.  

First of all, KG isnt the best in the league. TD is  KG cant even carry his team off the first round. I give KG the love that he deserves and he is one of my fav players. Hes a hell of a talent but dawg, Ill give him more than love, hell Twolves will be my favorite team if he can gets pass the second round this coming year. 

Second, Bradley, Najera, and Lafrentz are signed. Bell is the only one that isn't.

Third, IMO Wally is under rated.  

Fourth, we're still laughing now because seven years in a row in the first round, Dallas just gets better and better. 

Fifth, I agree this is the future but dawg, come on, your talking about our bench? Who do you have in yours? Troy Hudson? Whooooo peee! We got a deep roster, with Fortson and Mills (NO he will not be traded as said of Donnie Nelson but you may never know). We got a decent back up PG, we got Najera who is still improving, we have an awesome rookie to back us up. 

Sixth, Dallas is still better than Minny.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

Jordan didnt do it by himself, Shaq or kobe didnt, and Duncan didnt either. KG has had what these past 7 years?? name some players, Wally?? Gugs?? Marbury?? did brandon even play in a playoff game in Minny?? Either guys stayed for a year and left or they didnt have enough talent next to KG. let duncan play his natural position, the one he played in college, and lets see what he does?? No he had David Robinson, one of the 50 greatest players of all time next to him, with a good pg, deep bench and good starting 5. And you say Minny has no bench, they dont, theres more slack KG has to pick up. Now he has 4 former allstars and a center on the team that could be a allstar he straightens up and we will see if they get better. I know everyone is signed besides bell, thats my point, someone says everyone is in prime of career and gettin better. najara???? what has he done?? Madson and Gary Trent can do as much as him, if not more for the twolves. Ya laugh at madson, but he has 2 rings and started in LA, cant be that bad, are you in the NBA?? Everyone this Maddog is horrible cuz he has no Offence, but that boy can play some d, one of the hardest workers in the league, laugh at that. and no excuses but its hard to improve a team with no draft picks for 4 years?? even dallas got picks. And no matter how far you go in the playoffs, isnt the point to win it all? not to be satisfied your team made the WCF? all that does is give your team a lower draft pick, no banners or rings for the WCF. Minny hasnt gotten out of the 1st round YET, this year they will, but Dallas hasnt won it all, and wont with no d


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Why do the Twolves fans have to prove themselves to us? 

Are you guys posting on every teams board that is ranked higher than you according to ESPN? So the Lakers fans have to deal with the same BS? Hell, Update your NBA Live 03 rosters and you'll see that the Mavs are 2nd to the Lakers.  

Sam Cassel must be giving trash talking lessons in Minni already. IMO if you guys want to talk about the Wolves go where someone gives a crap.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TDaddy25</b>!
> The blazers made the western conference finals when they got put together, am i not mistaken. Dallas uses its o better than minny ya, til now minnesotas o was KG. Putting Dirk and KG in the same sentence is like compairing pippen and jordan, both are great players, but ones better. While dirk may improve, he cannot rebound, play d, and do as much for his team that KG does for the wolves. I give dirk respect, great player, better shot than kg, but look what the mavs did last year without him in the playoffs, they still won. Take garnett off the wolves, they get swept last year. . Jamison isnt even a top 6 pf in the west. KG, Duncan , Malone , Cwebb, Brand and Rasheed are all better than jamison. Jamison is a great player, will give you scoring, but is that what dallas needs is scoring?? dallas will fall to the 5 spot this year, playing the lakers in the first round and getting swept. Then we will see who is laughing.


Let's stop right there. Until kg learns how to DEFEND DIRK (it's already been proven he can't) then don't even try to use the pippen/jordan argument. Cause if you REALLY wanna go there dirk is more like JORDAN and kg is MORE LIKE PIPPEN. Kg has a better all around game (just like pippen) but JOrdan was unstoppable offensively and could CARRY his team (just like dirk can) kg has two career 30 point playoff games and DIRK LIGHTS HIM UP every time they play. The wolves have NO ANSWER for dirk OR JAMISON. none whatsoever. case closed. You wanna know how I can prove this? 

Dirk averaged 34 points against the wolves last year. He shot over 50 percent. He also torched kg in the playoffs 2 years ago (wolves got swept by the mavs) putting up 33 points, 16 boards and 3 steals a game while shooting 50 plus from 2 land 70 plus from 3 land and 85 plus from da line.


Jamison averaged 19 points and 8 boards against the wolves last year. That's 53 points from the mavs front court with last years totals. LOL Let's not even get into nash and fin's scoring. Raef will contribute as well. 


So yall have to compete with the best OFFENSIVE FORWARD TANDEM IN THE NBA. Find me 2 better. LOL

Nash is an all star

Fin is a top ten sg 

LOL man just give it up already. That's more than enough


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

look at this guy he's sheefo under a new name, just joined and already bashing the mavs, isn't it obvious? Anyways, you added washed up players(spree and cassel) who are known to hog the ball and get pissed off and whine if they don't. You got a bust(kandi), but he thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. You won't get out of the the first round this playoffs. Get the hell off this forum, you don't know what you're talking about and you don't have a clue. The Mavs had a better team than yall before this trade. 

Wally gripes, hudson is a hog, and KG gets 50% of the shots. There's no way in hell it will work and your coach isn't good enough to make it work. Cassel "the black hole" (when you pass it to him you never see the ball again) and Spree are known to gripe and so is wally. You can see this last year Hudson likes to hog it and Kandi thinks he has the best mid range jump shot in the league. 

Anyways Cassel and Spree are past there prime, so they won't be as good. You're right the Wolves are the 3rd best team.........IN THEIR DIVISION! The Blazers made it to the WCF, when they still had somewhat of chemistry. You can see how they play now when when all they have is stat players and the chemistry is down the drain!

Don't say the mavs don't have a bench, we have a better one than last years(after our next trade). Plus yalls is one of the worst! WE don't go on your forum and make an @$$ of ourselves, get the hell off ours! 

Don't worry I'll be the first one on yall's forum when yall get knocked out and the mavs are still in the hunt! Sorry there are four power houses in this league and the wolves aren't one of them! Plus, go back to school and learn grammer, where's the paragraphs? It's way easier to read too!


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

look

Fin is the #2 sg in the west.

Nash is a top 15(so is fin) player in game.

Dirk is a top 5 player and the most unstoppable player when shaq is not healthy.

Jamison is a top 5 SF in the league.

Raef is the best shooting center in the laegue and can run the floor better than any other center.

How the hell does your washups and scrubs(other than KG) beat us?

g Nash, cassel(nash)
g Fin, Spree(fin)
f Jamison, wally(jamison)
f Dirk, KG(same, but Dirk is more talented on offense, KG can't guard dirk and Dirk can't guard KG, make your pick)
c Raef, Kandi(Raef)


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

Ray allen and Kobe, thats 2 better than your man Fin. top 15 for Nash, no way!!! you must be on something for that comment. Dirk top 5, no, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Tmac, Kidd. Dirk is nowhere near those guys. Jamison top 5 PF is league, NO. KG, Malone, CWebb, rasheed, Jermain Oneal, ben Wallace, Duncan, Brand are all better. 
You just said KG and DIRK are even and KG cant stop Dirk, KG is all 1st team defensive player. he was in the top 5 in votes for defesive player of the year in like the past 3 years!!! and he is more talented than KG on Offense?? BS! He can shot the three better, but his low post game is nowhere near KG. then your saying twolves washed up team cant stand next to dallas:

PG: Cassell-19.7 pts/ Nash-17 pts -2 to minny
SG: Spree-16.4 pts/Fin-19.3 +1 Dallas
SF: Wally-17.6 pts/Jamison-22 pts +6 Dallas 
PF: KG- 23pts/Dirk-25 pts +8 Dallas
C: Kandi-12.3pts/raef-9pts +5 Dallas

The only spot dallas dominated minny in was SF, and jamisons numbers will slip now he has other people on his team. he was the go to guy in Golden state, he isnt there. Cassel hadmore than nash last year. kandi more than raef. 
dirk being so much better than KG on O, why does he only average 1 more made shot a game over KG? Does dirk average 20,10,5 a night?? Minny can afford to give up 5 to Dallas, because Dallas cant play D. I will say Dallas's offense will be great and will score points, but they are not that much better than any of the 4 top west teams.


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## carver401 (Aug 24, 2002)

Haha Finley better than Ray Allen, what a joke. Everything you say is so incredibly bias.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

Dirk goes for 30 in playoff games, what does the guy he gaurd do?? put up 25?? Dirk has no d and cant carry his team, other wise they would have been in the finals last year. Dirk got hurt and you guys still almost made the finals(thanks to pippen, cwebb getting hurt) .

and lets go update our live 2003 rosters and see who is better, wow. im having fun arguing with you Dallas fans, but where you guys dallas fans when they were a laughing stock 6 years back?? no noone went to the games. Minnesota fans dont jump off their team even if they have 7 straight playoff exits. you guys all talk about the wolves problems what about D. Fell at the end of the season last year. no d, no center(and yes kandiman is Better than any center you have) you guys can go for 100 a night, but your giving up 101. and dirk is unstoppable, kg's all around game is what makes him the best in the game. Dirk get hurt every year too. When has KG missed games due to an injury?? 4 powerhouses in the west, but everyone says their are 5, including minnesota(talk to david aldrige on that one) you guys think all of dallas player are 5 of the top 15 in the league!!! haha. the only superstar we have is KG, 3 other stars. the other three are not in the top 20, not top 30, but are not washed up. how can 2 players(spree and cassell) be washed up if they still did the job last year. cassell is only 33 years old. washed up no. Spree was playing out of position in NY now he is back at his natural 2 spot. everyone says spree is washed up, how?? NY fans are mad as h&ll they got rid of him, SA wanted him. Didnt SA win it all last year and they wanted a washed up player??? Dallas went after morning, and he isnt washed up?? 20,10,5 a night til dirk does that consently there is no argument. And for the last time KG had a better playoff(stats wise) than your boy dirk last year.


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>carver401</b>!
> Haha Finley better than Ray Allen, what a joke. Everything you say is so incredibly bias.


What the hell are you doing here? What are you a stalker? Jesus what is it the planet of the 13 year olds? Jesus You don't know what the hell you're talking about kid. You only know the names from playing the video games. Michael finley is a better all around player than ray allen you idiot! Fin can play D and is a team player(keyword, team). Finley has a better shot and is better all around player. Leave me alone, I don't need your headache along with this other kids.

To people that don't know: This kid carver, freaking goes to every thread I'm in and throws insults at me and tries to start an argument every time. Because I said Rip hamilton is a bad defender. He's like a stupid 13 year old. Just ignore him! 

Then Tdaddy: serious go to a hospital everything you just said was worthless and ignorant.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

hey @ least theyre making your post count higher...


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

yeah, but all they do is give me a headache. It's just stupid. I'm tired of these wolves fans that are pissed off because we added another all star and I'm tired of that kid being pissed, because I said his favorite player couldn't defend. Great site and all, but I'm fixing to switch to the realgm boards. I want to talk about the Mavs, not defend them. Because some idiot doesn't know what he's talking about!


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jacres318</b>!
> yeah, but all they do is give me a headache. It's just stupid. I'm tired of these wolves fans that are pissed off because we added another all star and I'm tired of that kid being pissed, because I said his favorite player couldn't defend. Great site and all, but I'm fixing to switch to the realgm boards. I want to talk about the Mavs, not defend them. Because some idiot doesn't know what he's talking about!


you know you can ignore all his post right?Theres an actual ignore button.


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

well, that couldv'e saved me 2 weeks of wanting to shoot myself,lol!


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

I was joking about the shooting myself, for everyone that's politically correct.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> hey @ least theyre making your post count higher...


:laugh: 

I swear, everytime you make a comment just makes me choke out of my pop corn.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tristan</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> ...


thats what I go for!:greatjob: Buddy Jezus.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

the mavs added a allstar and im mad??? Minny didnt add 2 allstars???? how many rings or playoff experiance does Jamison have?? Jamison is a great pick up, not enough to improve a scoring team, isnt good enough defender. I am a jamison fan, have been since his college days, but adding Spree and Cassell to a team and only lose 1 starting player(Rasho) from last years 4th/50+ win season is more improved. and please block me, if my comments are so ignorant, but only ones that dont agree are Dallas fans, i even read a post on from one of you "dallas" fans saying LA, SA, MIN, and Sac are all better right now than the mavs with the moves. im not gonna respond on this one again, because my point will be proven this year and when Min and DAL play in november.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

There's pure idiocy on both sides in this thread. 

TDaddy - do you honestly expect Mavs fans to agree with you when you burst in here spouting off about how your team's better? And as of right now, we actually aren't better. 

Jacres - I dare you to post those player ratings in the main forum. Dare you. 

Here's the reality: 

The Mavs have accumulated a ton of talent. A TON. More than the Wolves.

However, I believe the Wolves are more capable of acheiving the overall balance a team requires to do well in the playoffs. 

This one is too close to call right now, and probably won't be settled until May, so let's all calm down. 

Sorry to invade your board, Mavs fans...


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

blahblahblahbacktothewolvesforumyougo


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

i never once said Dallas sucks, never. They are proven a great team. Im just sayin with people talkin about how spree and cassell are washed up. if Dallas would have gotten one i bet it would be the oposite. Jamison isnt washed up, infact hasnt even hit his peak yet, but does it improve Dallas?? Scoring Wise, Yes, rebound Sure, but on the defensive end where Dallas struggles the most, not really. Its just funny to me how minny is a laughing stock since they got knocked out 7 straight years. this is the first year the team has done anything to improve. 5th best?? How can a team that finished 4th last year, add vet leaders and scoring options and only lose 1 starting player make us worse??? no other team beside the lakers have added as much as the wolves have, that all i wanna say


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

DOG GET OUTTA HERE WITH THIS GARBAGE. go to the wolves forum if you wanna talk about the wolves. Man the mod needs to start deleting ya posts so you'll stop harrassing mavs fans cause you're a delusional guy that can't accept reality and realize that your team hasn't proven they can get outta round 1 let alone compete with the 4 POWERHOUSE teams. Now get outta here.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jacres318</b>!
> 
> 
> Michael finley is a better all around player than ray allen you idiot! Fin can play D and is a team player(keyword, team). Finley has a better shot and is better all around player.


I'm not gonna argue the wolves point anymore, i'm tired of all that b.s. that's not why i'm posting...but i'm gonna have to disagree with you on saying that fin is better than ray ray. if i give you a headache, that ain't my intentions...ray is the second best shooting guard, if kobe turns to life behind bars for the next 4 years, he'll be the top 2 guard in the west. finley is a close third. but ray ray has the most pure shot in the league hands down and i think if he was on your mavs, you'd feel the same way. ray is a "team player." finley has better defense than allen...but allen's d is under-rated. ray's made it just as far as finley has in terms of reaching the conference finals, except the bucks took it to game 7 even though they should'a been in the finals that year. 

from a statistical point:
Finley
02-03: 19.3 ppg. 5.3 rpg. 3.0 apg. 1.1 spg. a 42.5 fg% shooter and he had a 3pt. percentage of 37.0% 

Allen
02-03: 22.5 ppg. 5.0 rpg. 4.4 apg. 1.36 spg. a 43.9 fg% shooter and he had a 3pt. percentage of 37.7% 
201-533 behind the arc for a percentage of 37.7%
his numbers only went up after going to seattle:
24.5 ppg. 5.6 rpg. 5.9 apg. 1.59 spg. a 44.1 fg%the only thing to decline was his 3-point percentage a measley .26%

i know ray doesn't have nash and nowitzki on his team not to mention jamison...but he's got a rashard lewis and a core of role players in seattle. in milwaukee they did have ray, cassell, thomas, and michael redd before he was traded. i don't like to mention mason because he was a major reason the bucks faltered after that great year. 

these guys are very similar in most aspects of the game...but statistically and preferably i'd take allen ahead of finley. hope i didn't give you a headache.


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## Stinger (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kaniffmn</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not gonna argue the wolves point anymore, i'm tired of all that b.s. that's not why i'm posting...but i'm gonna have to disagree with you on saying that fin is better than ray ray. if i give you a headache, that ain't my intentions...ray is the second best shooting guard, if kobe turns to life behind bars for the next 4 years, he'll be the top 2 guard in the west. finley is a close third. but ray ray has the most pure shot in the league hands down and i think if he was on your mavs, you'd feel the same way. ray is a "team player." finley has better defense than allen...but allen's d is under-rated. ray's made it just as far as finley has in terms of reaching the conference finals, except the bucks took it to game 7 even though they should'a been in the finals that year.
> ...



I agree that Ray Allen is all around better than Finely. He has sweet touch, passing skills, and a good penetrator. He almost got a couple of triple doubles last year.

Finely's got touch also, just not as good as Allen. Finely's stronger than Allen and a better rebounder. He's also a great dunker and a better defensive player. But just keep in mind that Ray Allen is the go-to guy in Sea-Town. The only other player is RaShard (Barry also, but not as much as Shard). 

So if Finely can keep up statswise with Allen even though there are two other all stars on the team, that's pretty damn good. Finely can probably put up better numbers than Allen if Dirk or Steve wasn't there.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

Ray had 2 guys with him(cassell and BigDog) allstars in milwalkee and still put up the same numbers


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

This is the last post i have here, i never intended on it going this far. But to say the wolves are not an improved team is rediculus!! Saying a team that gave the 3peat lakers fits in the playoffs last year, and they did outplay the lakers in 3 out of the first 4 games, and then adding proven players to a roster that still has KG and Wally is not intelligent. Saying Spree and Cassell are washed up scrubs is dumb too. Spree is now just moving back to his natural spot at the 2, and cassell is back in the west where he belongs. A big 6'3 pg that is only 33 and averaged 19 last year is washed up?? well in that case ill take those washed up players any day.

And for all you Flip Saunders bad mouthers, for a coach that has had only one real player in KG and to take his team to the playoffs every year is something. if you say he is a bad coach you only watch you local broadcast of games, cuz on the national level he is given praises all the time. Im done, said my peace, wait for the wolves to back me up this year!


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

allen wasn't a team player when he had big dog and cassel on his team. Like I said Fin could score 22 a night easily without Nash, NVE, Nowitzki and raef on his team, are you kidding me? Ok Bla I'll go right now I'll say Nash is a top 15 player in the game and dirk is top 5. I'll say Finley is a better OVERALL player than allen, I'll go right now. I'll have to go and see what all i said, because I don't know what all i said.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

he was a team player with the bucks...that's when they had "the big three" the nickname every team so famously uses now. since cassell ever got there...those three carried that team and each other. they all averaged over 18 ppg. a season with ray and glenn never under 20 ppg. he wasn't as polished a player as he is now either. he posted similar stats to what i said in the last post in milwaukee. he averaged 22 ppg. 4.5 rpg. 3.5 apg and 1.25 spg. he was also amongst the league leaders in 3 point % and 3 point field goals...he did so much for that milwaukee team that wasn't on paper either. he put fire back into the city of milwaukee...they hadn't made the playoffs in over a decade before he got there...it only took him a couple years and the acquisition of cassell to get to the conference finals...than god knows what happens and piece by piece that whole team is history. in no way am i trying taking away from finley, you have fine arguments with finley having 2 all stars on his team. in my mind, he was jipped by being left off the all star team this last year. like i said these guys are very similar in the way they play and statistic wise. maybe kobe will be found guilty and we will both get our way. shoot...even if kobe is in the league, hopefully both our guys will get the love they deserve and be on the all star team.


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

here it is Bla, i did it!


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

kaniff He's not a team player! I didn't say he couldn't shoot. I'll admit I said the Finley statment because I forgot Ray was in the west now. It's not like I wasn't going to try and fire something back at Tdaddy and the kid was talking trash. You can put up a good argument for both players. bottomline, I probably wouldn't have said that if I remembered Ray Allen was in the west. I can't get used to him with a sonics uni on, it's weird. It just came natural to say Fin was the #2 SG in the west, because I used that argument when he was on the trading block, before Allen was in the west. Tdaddy if I don't respond to your posts, just give drgn the thumbs up for me:laugh:!


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

Ray allen isn't that selfish, but he is more selfish than finley, that's the point I'm trying to get across. I respect you Kaniff for not trying to join in on this mess. I'm sorry I said that and opened that can of worms. I said it for the reasons I said earlier. I agree with you about both of them not getting any love and to be honest that's is the only reason I'm sticking by my statement. 

Finley gets no love what so ever and is probably just as important to this team than dirk is and you saw it on how we didn't win this division. I'll probably admit that Allen is a better player, but the other Wolves fans saying Spree is better and dissing him. That's probably why I tried to argue he was better than allen. Some fans still only know allen as the guy from "he got game". Then Fin gets no love because he's out shadowed by Nash and dirk and that's probably why he didn't make the all star team. To tell you the truth, I was pissed that he's not on the USA team. Jefferson, are you kidding me? he shouldv'e took Kobe's spot, not Carter!


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jacres318</b>!
> I respect you Kaniff for not trying to join in on this mess. I'm sorry I said that and opened that can of worms. I said it for the reasons I said earlier. I agree with you about both of them not getting any love and to be honest that's is the only reason I'm sticking by my statement.
> 
> Finley gets no love what so ever and is probably just as important to this team than dirk is and you saw it on how we didn't win this division.


i'm done trying to convince you guys how i feel about the wolves...cuz you feel the very same way about the mavs and it's just a lost cause trying to tell you otherwise. but i've shown my respect for the mavs and finley because they are worthy of it. just as you have shown with your acknowledgement of ray's game. i've always felt that ray allen has been one of the most under-rated players in the game, especially when he was in milwaukee and you're right, he is pretty much known as the "he got game" guy. i wouldn't say that's bad cuz he did get love...well some form of it anyway from them assitant coaches on that college visit...but i got love for finley and hopefully he'll get some from the rest of the league because he deserves it.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kaniffmn</b>!
> 
> 
> i'm done trying to convince you guys how i feel about the wolves...cuz you feel the very same way about the mavs and it's just a lost cause trying to tell you otherwise. but i've shown my respect for the mavs and finley because they are worthy of it. just as you have shown with your acknowledgement of ray's game. i've always felt that ray allen has been one of the most under-rated players in the game, especially when he was in milwaukee and you're right, he is pretty much known as the "he got game" guy. i wouldn't say that's bad cuz he did get love...well some form of it anyway from them assitant coaches on that college visit...but i got love for finley and hopefully he'll get some from the rest of the league because he deserves it.


Ray Allen was the reason I wore # 34 in high school. Well him and Paul Pierce. Both were in college back then.... geez I'm getting old.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

im going to stop everything right here!!!
first, ray allen is better than mike finley.
I know that it is a pretty long wait, but we should all wait til november 29 at 7:30 and talk about who is the better team.
both teams defenetly how questions on how they are gonna gel, but being bias is not the way to go!!!
(i know i may lean a little towards minny though!!!)


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

I'll agree with Allen being better than Fin.

But being better for the Mavs, I don't know. I don't know if Allen could take a backseat to Dirk, and share the spotlight with Nash and Jamison. Doesn't mean I wouldn't trade Fin for Allen tho hehe.


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

let's wait till MAY then see who's the better team!


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> but being bias is not the way to go!!!


shouldn't we be saying this to you?



Anyways you judge teams on how they play in the PLAYOFFS, not the regular season. Everyone loses in the regular season!


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jacres318</b>!
> 
> 
> shouldn't we be saying this to you?
> ...


i have changed my ways, you know that you have been a bit bias also.
why not trade finley for allen( not like seatle would do it), allen was with the big three, nash wouldbecome more of a passer, jamison doesnt have to score a lot and all he has to do is defend and rebound, plus the mavs would be the best shooting team ever with 2 of the best if not the best shooters in the league!!!
that would spell nba championship all over it


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

I think fin is a better FIT for the mavs, not a better player. 

I'm glad to see you changed your ways. You can't tell me that if spurs fans trashed your forum saying your team sucked and they're better, you wouldn't be bias.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

with allen they would be the top team in the league.
anywayz i would have to be bias when it comes to spurs fans!!!


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