# Ndudi Ebi Declares for Draft



## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

The 6-10 forward and Arizona signee has thrown his name into the draft. This is a bit surprising considering he was such a great fit for the Cats. He'll play the draft and perhaps could take advantage of the new rule.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> The 6-10 forward and Arizona signee has thrown his name into the draft. This is a bit surprising considering he was such a great fit for the Cats. He'll play the draft and perhaps could take advantage of the new rule.


WOW!!!!!

He is a definite lottery pick so he is coming into the league. This draft is going to be deep and risky.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

Think he is a fav at #4 now? This may cause some guys to returns to school if anymore potential lotto guys (Perovic, Splitter, even Deng?) declared, and the draft suddenly looks a whole lot different.


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## Conley2385 (Sep 2, 2002)

I really thought this was the year when High Schoolers would stop coming out in bunces (last year only Amare and then those 2 loons Cooke and DeAngleo) Then just in the last couple days its gone crazy

LeBron James
James Lang
NDubi Ebi
Travis Outlaw (i still havent seen the story on this one)
Charlie Villanueva (does he even know what hes gonna do?)

Then Kendrick Perkins is still liable to make the jump.

I really wish they would implement the 20 and older rule, but that probaly isnt a reality.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Conley2385</b>!
> 
> 
> I really wish they would implement the 20 and older rule, but that probaly isnt a reality.


Why?

This just puzzles me. Why does everyone have a problem with HS basketball players going to the league? Nobody *****es and moans about Freddie Jones stealing money from the Pacers, or Scott Padgett, Quincy Lewis, Trajon Langdon, Dalibor Bagaric, Primo Brezec, Mateen Cleaves, Chris Mihm, Brandon Armstrong , Jeryl Sasser , Kirk Haston , etc.

*A bad draft pick is a bad draft pick.* Always when somebody like Cooke or Collins goes undrafted everyone works on the assumption that if they would have went to college they were automattically going to get picked in the 1st round.


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

WOW. But anyway, definite lotto pick? Where'd you hear that?


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

Good post, MemphisX.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> Why?
> ...



I agree. Nice post and great points.


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## Conley2385 (Sep 2, 2002)

The only reason i say i wish they would implement the 20 and over rule is that i would love to see these guys play college ball. If the NBA doesnt implement a full 'Farm System" then college ball is the place to develop players. I am definitly more of a college fan than an NBA fan and i would just like to see them in college hoops.

In a perfect world the players would be allowed to be drafted, and then sent to the NCAA's for a couple years before joining the league, possibily even with compensation.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Conley2385</b>!
> The only reason i say i wish they would implement the 20 and over rule is that i would love to see these guys play college ball. If the NBA doesnt implement a full 'Farm System" then college ball is the place to develop players. I am definitly more of a college fan than an NBA fan and i would just like to see them in college hoops.
> 
> In a perfect world the players would be allowed to be drafted, and then sent to the NCAA's for a couple years before joining the league, possibily even with compensation.


Your perfect world does not fit the players' aspirations, why should a player have to go to college because you like college hoops more than the pros.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

Ebi won't be a lottery pick. Let's get that out of the way first.

Most of these kids are going to take advantage of the rule that allows them to go to the draft camps and even be drafted for that matter but yet retain their amateur status and play NCAA basketball. I don't blame them. 

I think Outlaw, Ebi and perhaps Villanueva will be in college next year.


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## Conley2385 (Sep 2, 2002)

How does it not fit their aspirations?

1.) They will get drafted, and get paid-I'd say that matches their aspirations. The current NCAA rules about no compensation were made during a time when 17-18 year HS kids making the jump to the NBA were completely unheard of.

2.) Instead of sitting the NBA pine for 2-3 seasons or even more they will actually get playing time in College Ball, not to mention some exposure.

Why don't you ask Carmelo Anthony, that guy is/should be a role model. Look at all the hype going around about this kid. EVERYWHERE. If i ask the guy walking down the street who Carmelo Anthony is they are going to say "The best player in College basketball" If i ask that same guy who Ndubi Ebi is they will say "who?". You think these kids dont like to have their names all over the place?

Of course it would be up to the NBA team when to bring the guy into the league, so a special case like LeBron could still go ahead and join the big team.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> Why?
> ...


Don't diss Freddie yet man. He is just a rook who is stuck behind Ron,Harrington,Reggie, etc. He'll get his time.:yes:


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> Ebi won't be a lottery pick. Let's get that out of the way first.
> 
> Most of these kids are going to take advantage of the rule that allows them to go to the draft camps and even be drafted for that matter but yet retain their amateur status and play NCAA basketball. I don't blame them.
> ...


I have to disagree with you on this. To say Ebi is definitely not a lottery pick is speaking to fast. If Chris Bosh if a #4 pick, Ebi is definitely a lottery pick.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

who really cares about public exposure before the draft? the public generally knows very little about most draft picks nowadays because they spend little time in college...but who cares? all that really matters is exposure to scouts, ensuring that entering the draft is worth your while.

i suppose that i'd rather see players develop in college if they aren't going to get any time in the pros. still, even getting 15 mpg in the nba is a big step in one's development as a player. i like having projects like gerald wallace and all the others in the nba; i'd much prefer they eat up the garbage minutes than some vet that will be out of the nba in a couple of years. 

and don't worry about college ball, it's going to get better. with all the internationals coming, many of these kids are going to be forced to stay in school a little longer. college is a BIG risk, the draft is more competitive than ever before. if you get a shot at being a decent pick, take it. players just have to be careful not to put all their eggs in one basket, and most of them are being pretty savvy.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

MemphisX - have you watched Ebi outside of the McDonald's game? 

I am a huge Ebi fan. I was the first person to talk about him in the same sentence last summer and I really believe he will become a lottery pick. But right now, I don't think he will be in the lottery. There are too many forgein players to consider this year.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> 
> 
> Don't diss Freddie yet man. He is just a rook who is stuck behind Ron,Harrington,Reggie, etc. He'll get his time.:yes:


he was just commenting on the fact that why is a developing player that went to school for a couple years any less disappointing than those that come straight from high school.


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## Conley2385 (Sep 2, 2002)

IMO more important than actually getting "garbage time" in the NBA would be getting some actual college coaching and learning how to actually play the game of basektball. So many of these HS kids get by on size (lang) and get by on their athlectism (outlaw) that they really dont know how to play the game of basketball. (not saying Lang and Outlaw dont know how to play, just giving some examples).

That is what college coaches do, teach the game of basketball. NBA coaches do not do that, they expect the players to already know how to play. Look at a guy like Darius Miles, that guy is looking more and more like a lost cause because all he still knows how to do is jump high (not to say he wont eventually get it figured out)

Think of it like this, in baseball do you think they would throw an 18 year old flame thrower straight to the Bigs, or would they work him up? Work him up, because they want to be sure he is ready, so his confidence isn't shot. Confidence is a big thing in all sports, including basketball

HS basketball players coming to the NBA are raw, and need a place to harness their skills. That is what college used to be for 100% of them, now every year the top 3-7 of them decide to throw their names in the draft and it can hinder and atleast slow their learning curve. Most will eventually turn into very fine player (J-O'neal, T-Mac) others are left trying to figure what is wrong (Bender/Miles) In college they could have figured it out sooner.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Conley2385</b>!
> How does it not fit their aspirations?
> 
> 1.) They will get drafted, and get paid-I'd say that matches their aspirations. The current NCAA rules about no compensation were made during a time when 17-18 year HS kids making the jump to the NBA were completely unheard of.
> ...


1. Everyone doesn't want to go to school. They want money now. How much are you going to pay a team of 15 players each? The money won't be that much vs. making millions in the NBA.

2. Player A goes up for a layup, he gets undercut tears an ACL. He's never the same... all because he went to college. Exposure will come later.

I understand your point, I just disagree.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Conley2385</b>!
> IMO more important than actually getting "garbage time" in the NBA would be getting some actual college coaching and learning how to actually play the game of basektball. So many of these HS kids get by on size (lang) and get by on their athlectism (outlaw) that they really dont know how to play the game of basketball. (not saying Lang and Outlaw dont know how to play, just giving some examples).
> 
> That is what college coaches do, teach the game of basketball. NBA coaches do not do that, they expect the players to already know how to play. Look at a guy like Darius Miles, that guy is looking more and more like a lost cause because all he still knows how to do is jump high (not to say he wont eventually get it figured out)
> ...


Again, I ask...Why is every HS player held to the standard of Kobe/T Mac/KG? Are you telling me if you go to college you are going to be Jordan, Bird, or Magic? Some HSers are going to be superstars, some real good, some role players, and some bust. Guess what that will happen whether the NBA has a20 yeard old age limit, a 25 year old age limit, or no age limit.


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## Conley2385 (Sep 2, 2002)

Im not holding anyone to the standard of Kobe, T-Mac and KG because those guys were gonna be great no matter what. All i am saying is which do you think is better for developing raw players? college coaching and playing 40 mins a game agaisnt good competition, or playing 0-15 mins (garbage time) agaisnt great competition and getting embarrased-shattering a young fragile confidence and ego?

This is why foreign players have caught up so, they have learned the fundamentals while American teens jump/dunk/ and try to be Hot Sauce off of the AND 1 Tour.

All im saying that if the NBA drafted players when they graduated HS, and they were still allowed to go play College ball (with compensation) that it would help both the NBA, NCAA and most importantly the kids. Injuries imo cant be taken into consideration because well injuries can happen to any athlete in any sport at any time. You just cant worry about that. This is just my opinion, and no it probaly isnt perfect but i think it is better than what we have now.


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## bruno34115 (Apr 14, 2003)

whered u hear this?


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## Stojakovic16 (Jan 12, 2003)

I read an article in SLAM last month about this guy. It says he is the next big thing.


The funny thing is, it talked about how he is definately going to college first, and it even talks about how he was having a hard time picking a school, and how happy the school that he applied to got.


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## onecooljew (Apr 24, 2003)

This kid is a super-freak! that term gets thrown around alot these days but i read in last months SLAM that in one game Ebi had 26 points, 11 boards and 19 blocks. Yes thats rite, 19 damn blocks. 

It's really weird that hes declarin cuz most a the article is bout him goin to Arizona and how hes gonna play great there with Frye and the rest a the guys. 

This kid mite make the lottery, but with the huge amount of euros celarin...who knows. I really hope he goes to goes high in the draft and tears it up next year.

Larry


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## bealis (Mar 31, 2003)

Ebi should declare. If he went to school for a couple of years he would be a lottery pick. I'm sure scouts know this and are aware of his potential. He is very skinny but he is long and athletic and multi-talented. He may be a risk, but the talent is there. There are risks with just about every player in the draft. Is it better to take a fully developed college player with little room to grow or take a chance on a possible future star? I guess it depends on the GM.

The best place to learn the NBA game is in the NBA. College ball has too many restrictions and rules, and you aren't playing against the best players in the world every day, all while earning a sizable income. 

College isn't for everybody and players shouldn't be ridiculed for taking a different road. Until the NBA develops a farm system they have no right to complain about youth coming into the NBA.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> Im not holding anyone to the standard of Kobe, T-Mac and KG because those guys were gonna be great no matter what. All i am saying is which do you think is better for developing raw players? college coaching and playing 40 mins a game agaisnt good competition, or playing 0-15 mins (garbage time) agaisnt great competition and getting embarrased-shattering a young fragile confidence and ego?


 If they're decent, and if they want it, absolutely go to the NBA...you get the money, the facilities, and practice against all-world players, and _earn_ playing time against the best. To _earn_ it, you have to be damn good, because nobody wants to sit on the bench, so they use that access to facilities and coaching whenever they want. Look at how McGrady improved in the NBA. I can't help but think more extensive practice time against a Gary Payton, would do more for your game than practice time against Wesley Stokes or someone. Not to mention the limits placed on collegians, and superior facilities in the NBA to improve your game and body.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Conley2385</b>!
> Im not holding anyone to the standard of Kobe, T-Mac and KG because those guys were gonna be great no matter what. All i am saying is which do you think is better for developing raw players? college coaching and playing 40 mins a game agaisnt good competition, or playing 0-15 mins (garbage time) agaisnt great competition and getting embarrased-shattering a young fragile confidence and ego?


All things being equal, it is much better to play against the best competition. Using your lgic we should tell everyone who is not a HS All American and gooing to get 30+ mins in college, to go to a DII school because they will be getting valuable playing time.

Basketball players don't improve playing games. They improve in practice. In the NBA players or teams can hire experts(diet,training,skills) to help players. They have coaches that teach them the pro game. Some college coaches have no clue what it takes to play in the pros. .*Plus* , they go against the best players in the World everyday.

Why do you think Euros are catching up? At 15 they play against players who are more physically developed, this forces players to develop _skills_ . Then they are given 8-12 hours a day to just work on skills. You can't work on your game that much in college.


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## bruno34115 (Apr 14, 2003)

justin you got a link ?


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## bruno34115 (Apr 14, 2003)

i like this guy more than a lot of people rated in the lottery. personally if i had the #4 pick and i needed a forward i would nab him. i like this guy a lot more than chris bosh. however andy katz draft guru has him as a late first early second round pick.


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## genghisrex (May 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Conley2385</b>!
> Injuries imo cant be taken into consideration because well injuries can happen to any athlete in any sport at any time. You just cant worry about that.


Well that's pretty easy for you to say. Try saying it when you actually have millions of dollars staring you in the face. The point is, like you said, that injuries can happen _at any time_. It's a big risk and a legitimate concern for a player choosing between college and the NBA. A major injury in college can destroy a player's chance at earning an NBA salary. How could you not worry about that?


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

Ebi needs to go on the Carmelo diet. The kid seriously needs to put some meat on them bones. When I saw him play at an AAU tournament in Georgia, he seemed to like the wing more than the inside, but can play both.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Conley2385</b>!
> Charlie Villanueva (does he even know what hes gonna do?)


No, Charlie V doesn't know what he's doing yet. A few weeks ago, he said that he was going to "play the draft field" and not sign with an agent yet. However, he has verbally agreed to go to Illinois, and I heard on Sportscenter a couple days ago that he may be going to Kansas.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

1. Like some have said Ebi will not be a lotto pick. I gurantee that. Although several teams are considering him late 1st.

2. He has declared, but has not signed an agent.  

3. The UA coaching staff is pretty confident Ebi will be a Wildcat this year. Ebi has said if he is not a lotto pick he will more then likely go to the UA. Also even if he is a lotto pick he might still go to the UA.

4. This is a smart move by Ebi. In my opinion he is declaring to see where he might go right now. The NBA guys will tell him what he needs to do the most to improve his draft status. I think he just wants to get a feel for where he might be drafted this year, so he has a pretty good idea of where he might go in the 2004 draft, if he goes to UA for 1 year.

I expect to see him playing for Lute this season. If hes going to go pro he should atleast wait till he is a lottery pick. Otherwise you get screwed like Gilbert Arenas. Leave when you have LOTS of guaranted money.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Ebi should definately go to Arizona.

He is not lottery pick material and not NBA ready, why would he not go to Arizona which will likely still be clear preseason #1 next season?


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TucsonClip</b>!
> This is a smart move by Ebi. In my opinion he is declaring to see where he might go right now. The NBA guys will tell him what he needs to do the most to improve his draft status. I think he just wants to get a feel for where he might be drafted this year, so he has a pretty good idea of where he might go in the 2004 draft, if he goes to UA for 1 year.
> 
> I expect to see him playing for Lute this season. If hes going to go pro he should atleast wait till he is a lottery pick. Otherwise you get screwed like Gilbert Arenas. Leave when you have LOTS of guaranted money.


I agree. It is a smart move only if he returns to school. The rule that allows players to participate in the pre draft camps is a good one. There are a lot of players that are doing it, both in high school and in college. They are just getting a feel for where they stand amongst the great ones.

I like Ebi's drive. He has this "I can do better than you" arrogance to his game. He's driven by what people say but remains so laid back it's hard to see his fire. He wants to see where he stands. Nothing wrong with that. Let's just hope he doesn't have a good three days in Chicago and stay in the draft. He needs college like I need basketball 365 days a year. 

By the way, how did Arenas get screwed?


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

If he will get picked in round 1, then he would be stupid to go to school. Arizona is real deep and playing time is not assured. Also, there is no guarantee he will be a lottery pick next year. 

Why play for free when you can get paid?


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## DaBigTicketKG21 (Apr 27, 2003)

Ndubi Ebi was such a great fit with the Cats. Now we only have Hassan, Shakur, and Stoudamire. Its all good!


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> I have to disagree with you on this. To say Ebi is definitely not a lottery pick is speaking to fast. If Chris Bosh if a #4 pick, Ebi is definitely a lottery pick.


If people think that Bosh is physically unready for the NBA they won't want to see Ebi. Ebi is not even close to NBA ready. He is a 4 playing at less than 200 pounds. He is similar to Outlaw but Outlaw has better dribbles and can play 3. I don't see the same for Ebi. As far as HS players I would rank Ebi higher than Outlaw but because of the notion noted above as a GM I would rather pick Outlaw or Warrick. All three are very similar players but Outlaw and Warrick have better chances to succeed at 3 than Ebi so they can get away with being tremendous undersized and underweight. If this declaration is true and I believe Justin Young I think Ebi is just testing his chances and utilizing the benefit of playing in draft camps becuz he is nowhere a top 25 pick right now.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Ebi will play 3 in the NBA, no doubt. In Tucson we will play a more PF role. Hes 6'9, can get out and defend and has very good wing skills. Not to mention his arch rival is Lebron James (He really stated that). Once Ebi gains a little more offensive skill he will be a good 3 man in the NBA. 

If Ebi decides to go to the NBA... All I have to say is watch out for Chris Dunn. Lute Olson has said he is the most athletic player he has ever recruited. 6'9 Andre Iguodala like, but with range. He was New Mexico's 3pt champion 2 years in a row. Not to mention he only shot near 49% from behind the arc. Arizona is going to be scary good, we just dont have that Gardner/Walton type of leader this year. Look for Hassandre to be the leaders. In case you didnt know, thats Tucson slang for Hassan Adams and Andre Iguodala.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TucsonClip</b>!
> Ebi will play 3 in the NBA, no doubt. In Tucson we will play a more PF role. Hes 6'9, can get out and defend and has very good wing skills. Not to mention his arch rival is Lebron James (He really stated that). Once Ebi gains a little more offensive skill he will be a good 3 man in the NBA.
> 
> If Ebi decides to go to the NBA... All I have to say is watch out for Chris Dunn. Lute Olson has said he is the most athletic player he has ever recruited. 6'9 Andre Iguodala like, but with range. He was New Mexico's 3pt champion 2 years in a row. Not to mention he only shot near 49% from behind the arc. Arizona is going to be scary good, we just dont have that Gardner/Walton type of leader this year. Look for Hassandre to be the leaders. In case you didnt know, thats Tucson slang for Hassan Adams and Andre Iguodala.


I have seen Ebi a couple times and I seriously do not believe he has the skills...only size to play 3. His dribbles are below average and he has no shot. What sets him apart is his amazing athleticism and his anticipation to block shots.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Ebi should definately go to Arizona.
> 
> He is not lottery pick material and not NBA ready, why would he not go to Arizona which will likely still be clear preseason #1 next season?


they won't be preseason number one if they don't get Ebi, especially if KU picks up Charlie V.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> they won't be preseason number one if they don't get Ebi, especially if KU picks up Charlie V.


But don't forget Zona is also getting Shakur who is rated by many including me as top 10 in his class.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

i am suprised that he is throwing himself in cos i read slam 69 n he sed he was really looking forward to college n his parents really wanted him to go to college to


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

I have not seen Ebi play, but the people who run www.goazcats.com think different. This is a very good site for UA basketball and also for College basketball recruiting. They have Ebi described as a good 3/4 player, who can play exceptionaly well on the perimiter, has good handles, but a questionable jumper.

With his body I just dont see him playin PF in the NBA. That is why he should go to college and develop his outside shot. Also he will add some weight and muscle.


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## kg_theGREATEST (Feb 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> Ebi won't be a lottery pick. Let's get that out of the way first.




WTF? WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

If Ebi goes in the lottery, it will solely be based on his potential. He plays good now, but he's not great. I think he can be a pretty good player in the NBA if he develops a better jumper and better handles. I wouldn't doubt it if he's just going to participate in the draft camps though.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kg_theGREATEST</b>!
> WTF? WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?


It's the finest bag of reality on the market. It's called real time viewing. I've see Ebi play more than anyone on this board and I judge talent for a living. Like I said, he's talented. I like him a lot. He'll be a great player at Arizona. BUT he's not ready for the league at this stage of the game. If anything he'll be in the twenties of the first round.

Also, he's 195 pounds at best. He's 6-7, not 6-9 or 6-10 like some have reported. I've attached a picture with me and him. I'm 6-2. He's standing right in front of me.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> 
> 
> It's the finest bag of reality on the market. It's called real time viewing. I've see Ebi play more than anyone on this board and I judge talent for a living. Like I said, he's talented. I like him a lot. He'll be a great player at Arizona. BUT he's not ready for the league at this stage of the game. If anything he'll be in the twenties of the first round.
> ...


Justin I still havent seen a link saying he declared. Do you have one.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

This draft just got a lot more talented with Ebi on board....

Should be a lottery pick when looking at athletic ability and upside, and his work ethic as a high school kid is just awesome.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

I'm sure there is a link out there somewhere. He's in the draft though, trust me.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Ebi and work ethic are two words I thought*

I would never hear in the same sentence. He hasnt gotten much better since his junior yearand for a dominant player he "floats through games too much" Ebi will be lucky to go in the first round. Stop believing Slam Hype. He is a 6'8-9" 195 lbs pf with average handles and a suspect shot what says lottery pick about that. Hell he is not one of the top 8 high school ballers right now.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

BEEZ - http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/1905216 - the link for him declaring.

Also, on the site we have a section calledNBA News. In it you can find articles from across the world regarding this kind of stuff.

Ebi is a top 5 player in his class.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Justin Top 5 in his class but not top*

10 nation wide irregardless of class.

In no particular order
Marvin Williams
LJ
Shannon Brown
Telfair
Deng
Perkins
Livingston
Dwight Howard
Josh Smith
Al Jefferson
Lamarcus Aldridge 
Dorell Wright


All in my opnion are better than Ebi


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Justin Top 5 in his class but not top*

-Josh Smith is good, but he is not at Ebi's level. He is not as polished a player as Ebi, and certainly not as good a shooter or on defense. But, he is younger, so let's hear the "upside" chants.

-Sebastian Telfair got rocked at Prep Camps this summer. Mustafa Shakur (who should be on your list) was just killing him when they played, from what I heard. He's still too erratic against the best competition. Not only that, theres not a lot of room for 5-10 150 PG's on the next levels.

-Unless Al Jefferson continues to grow, or he drops some weight during senior year, he's going that have a rough time in the college ranks. He lacks the explosiveness to succeed on the next level. He doesn't get off or up the floor very well. Tends to get intimidated too.


My national top 10:
1. Lebron James
2. Luol Deng
3. Mustafa Shakur
4. Shannon Brown
5. Ndudi Ebi
6. James Lang
7. Travis Outlaw
8. LeMarcus Aldridge
9. Kendrick Perkins
10. Tack Minor or Andrew Lavender

Watch out for JR Smith (super inside-out player) and Churchill Odia (super African-prospect)


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> Ebi won't be a lottery pick. Let's get that out of the way first.
> 
> Most of these kids are going to take advantage of the rule that allows them to go to the draft camps and even be drafted for that matter but yet retain their amateur status and play NCAA basketball. I don't blame them.
> ...



agree,some might be thinking of loul deng(duke),i doubt he will be a 1st rounder,if he indeed stays in the draft


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> 
> 
> It's the finest bag of reality on the market. It's called real time viewing. I've see Ebi play more than anyone on this board and I judge talent for a living. Like I said, he's talented. I like him a lot. He'll be a great player at Arizona. BUT he's not ready for the league at this stage of the game. If anything he'll be in the twenties of the first round.
> ...


yeah he really isn't 6'9 or 6'10. i've seen him live once and in the mcdonald's game. he is going to be a very good player. but he isn't ready yet. he already has good range and can handle the ball, but when i saw him he did nothing on the inside. nothing at all. he still ended up with double digit rebounds just because of the athlete he is(and because he was the tallest guy out there), but there was no post play. i really didn't get to see him play d live because he would guard one of the two best players on my school's team and whichever one he was guarding would just stand way out of the play. ebi is so good defensively that they gave up one of their two best options just to keep him out of the play. on offense he has a good shot, can handle the ball, but doesn't have a post up game(that i have seen). 

and the size thing is right. he is about 6'7. the tallest guy on westbrook(my school) is about 6'3 or 6'4. ebi was just 3 or 4 inches taller than that guy. and kendrick perkins was at that game(because westbrook is in beaumont) and perkins towered over ebi. 

i really would have thought ebi would be a lottery pick. but justin young knows way more than i do about the draft so if he says he won't be in the lottery, he is probably right.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/ndudiebi.htm
Jesus christ thats one skinny dude


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> Also, he's 195 pounds at best. He's 6-7, not 6-9 or 6-10 like some have reported. I've attached a picture with me and him. I'm 6-2. He's standing right in front of me.


why is he listed as 6'9 205 on his nbadraft.net profile. even in the thing you wrote it says he is 6'9. i know he isn't(because i've seen him) and that he is really closer to 6'7. i'm just wondering why you say this here but his profile isn't right(though i'm sure it's just something involving the time it would take to keep everyones profile perfect).


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*AL Jefferson intimidated*

What are you talking about?


Ebi isnt polished on offense either, he score because of his athleticism and he plays against sorry comp, he dominates once in a while against good comp but most of the time he floats.



Mustafa Shakur ahead of Telfair ok? :laugh: 


Telfair is the fastest thing with ball in his hands since AI. I have seen the kid outrace fullcourt presses. Mustafa wishes he had that speed. His vision could make a blind man see and he does it all moving at the speed of light.



Chuchill Odia is one of those players who is a floater. Puts up ok stats but you wont realize how valuable he is by looking at the box score. Good player but about top 30 in his class. Not even the best pg in his area. BTW DC has so much talent in the 04 class it is sick. JR Rider is a Great athlete too bad he isnt a good bball player. Very hyped but if he gets to learn the game he can be very good. I forgot Outlaw and Lang belongs in the bottom 5 but Ebi is not a top 10 player in the nation anyway you slice it.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: AL Jefferson intimidated*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> Ebi isnt polished on offense either, he score because of his athleticism and he plays against sorry comp, he dominates once in a while against good comp but most of the time he floats.


ebi can shoot the ball(at least he did when i saw him). he was hitting shots a couple feet behind the high school line and everything shorter than that.


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

*Ebi is legit...*

i saw him play a few times while he played in an tournament here is portland and i was VERY impressed...he was amazing on the break and possessed from what i could see PG handles at 6'9...and maybe he was just on fire that weekend because his jumper was pure as could be...and also displayed some excellent shot blocking instincts (albeit on the weak side but still was impressive) ATHLETIC is the key word with Ebi but he has a lot more than that...i hope he falls into the 20's so that my blazers can pick him

damon bonzi ebi Zbo ?

man we need a center!

peace


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: AL Jefferson intimidated*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> What are you talking about?
> 
> 
> ...


When I saw him at an AAU tournament, he didn't seem to enjoy contact in the post like you would hope. He seemed content just laying up shots, instead of finishing strong at or above the rim. 

Ndudi Ebi does coast, I'll give you that. But so does LeBron. Ebi was far and away one of the best players in Texas, the only one close was Kendrick Perkins. Ebi can finish around the basket, has good handles for a big man, and his jumper is pretty pure, he has nice form. Once he eats something, he'll be dangerous.

Sebastian Telfair is a good player, don't get me wrong, but I don't even think he is the best PG in his class. I think Darius Washington out played him at ABCD camp this year, and it could be argued that Shaun Livingston is better than both of them. While Telfair may be lightning quick, "as fast as AI" or whatever, he doesn't have the evolved understanding of the game yet. When Darius Washington played at The Big Time tournament, he showed the obscene range that Telfair doesn't have -- and Telfair proved that he didn't have it as he missed 3 after 3. Once Telfair gets the understanding of the game (as well as some size), he will be killer. But for now, Washington is not quite as quick, but is twice the shooter and leader (and leadership is just as important in a PG as passing and dribbling, and DW is no slouch there either). 

At the Big Time Tournament: 1. Washington 2. Telfair 3. Livingston
At the ABCD Camp: 1. Shakur 2. Livingston 3. Telfair 4. Washington

Mustafa Shakur doesn't have that blinding quickness, but he still gets in the lane just as well as Telfair (when Telfair wants to drive, he seems to have no trouble beating his defenders). Shakur has a really weird outside shot, but it works, and he doesn't over-utilize it. He works well controlling tempo, getting teammates involved, and most importantly, he finds the hot players. Too many young PG's will ignore the hot player, and try to take it themselves too much. Shakur is the PG's PG. He's not flashy, but he gets the job done. He runs flawless transition, and runs an offense as well as anyone.

Livingston doesn't try to force things. He looks a little too calm on the court sometimes, but he's almost as pure a PG as Shakur.

If I had to draft them...which would be damn tough..I'd take.
1. Mustafa Shakur
2. Sebastian Telfair
3. Darius Washington
4. Shaun Livingston

I think Telfair has the tools. He just needs to get a good coach in college (Roy Williams, anyone?  ) to teach him how to play the game! If he could spend a year under Raymond Felton, which I doubt he would, he would be amazing. But if Telfair doesn't get that coach in college, I'd take DW instead. But I think all four will make tremendous players some day is they continue their progression.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> why is he listed as 6'9 205 on his nbadraft.net profile. even in the thing you wrote it says he is 6'9. i know he isn't(because i've seen him) and that he is really closer to 6'7. i'm just wondering why you say this here but his profile isn't right(though i'm sure it's just something involving the time it would take to keep everyones profile perfect).


Good question. I just wrote the profile not the miscellaneous stuff like height, weight, etc. So that is out of my hands. 6-7 sounds fair.

- - - 

A lot of people are saying Ebi 'goes through the motions' and he coasts through games. I'd like to address that. Ebi was the best player from the Class of 2003 I watched this summer. He'll score 25 points, grab 15 rebounds, swat 10 shots quicker than you can find a seat. But watching him and looking at a final stat sheet, you'd be amazed at his line. He makes it look so effortless. In a way, he reminds me of Shareef Abur Rahim. Both just get it done with little fan fare. 

Offensively he's _very_ polished. He's got good range from outside the paint. He uses the glass well. I'd trust him as my small forward. Inside, he has good feet. He battles for every board, he helps on the weakside, he puts forth every pound of his skinny frame. I like his effort a lot. 

He plays in the state of Texas, so you can throw out the sorry competition arguement. Outside of Georgia, Texas is the most fertile state for prep basketball right now. Keep in mind too that when he played against the best players last summer, he was on one knee. He struggled with a knee injury all year. During the school year he led his team in national tournaments as mentioned by riehldeal. Ebi won MVP honors at the Les Schwab Classic. (By the way, remember this name prep/college fans: Maarty Luenen).

Now with all of that love, why do I still think he isn't ready for the league and _won't_ be a lottery pick? Simple. Physically he'll get destroyed. That is the bottom line. He needs time and I'm sure the "why use that time in college to prepare when you can get paid in the league argument" but Arizona wil do him so much good. He'll play regardless of what people seem to think. Josh Pastner won't let him sit on a bench too long. The PAC-10 style will allow Ebi to shine. 

I want him to suceed because I really, really like the kid. Honestly, I do. If he indeed stays in the draft I can see him going to team like Sacramento (who has watched him closely as did the Blazers at two camps I was at). If he goes to either of those teams what will he learn? Nothing.


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## Canadian Maverick (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Conley2385</b>!
> 
> I really wish they would implement the 20 and older rule, but that probaly isnt a reality.


It isn't a reality because that would be a violation of the labor laws in both US and Canada. No industry can put in their bylaws that they will not employ 18 yr. olds (& 19 too).

The reason the draft age is where it is now in both NBA and NHL is that both leagues were sued and lost in the 1970's thus forcing them to change the against their will.

As far as the argument against going pro I don't buy it. About the only negative for a young player in the NBA is lack of game time. Any player who's got the talent and the desire should improve at least as much in the NBA as in college imo. Every NBA team has good assistant coaches, every NBA team will spend huge amounts of time working with their young players. The amount of time players can spend working on their game is much greater in the NBA than college- whether they are willing to spend that time is entirely up to the player but focus and desire are up to the individual at both levels. 

Look at Jermaine O'Neal- he barely got off the bench for the Blazers but he was working and improving the whole time. The player the Pacers got was not the same player who came out of HS. It's not like he was just waiting to show what he always had. I base that on comments by likes of Brian Grant, Dunleavy and local media who watched a lot of practices. Going against guys like Grant and Wallace a few times a week for a couple years must've helped him a lot- I mean even Sheed said he "had a good practice and played hard"


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: AL Jefferson intimidated*



> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> When I saw him at an AAU tournament, he didn't seem to enjoy contact in the post like you would hope. He seemed content just laying up shots, instead of finishing strong at or above the rim.
> ...


Telfair is extremely overrated but he is a very very good prospect but he is not the best PG in his class. I give that to Livingston IMO.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> 
> 
> Good question. I just wrote the profile not the miscellaneous stuff like height, weight, etc. So that is out of my hands. 6-7 sounds fair.
> ...


I like Ebi and although he has the range I don't see him with consistency with that range. His dribbles also seemed average or even at times below averaged. I cannot see him controlling a game with his dribbles that is why I cannot see him as a SF. I used to think the same for Marion until he dramatically improved the consistency with his longrange shots. IMO Ebi should concentrate on being a PF who can defend SF like K Mart. 20-30 more pounds and he could very well be a more polished version of K Mart. Like K Mart, Ebi can block shots at it's height. He is the best and most exciting shotblocker I have seen since Camby. He has 1st team all-defense written all over him.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Just wondering how have you guys seen all of these high school ballers play? I believe Justin Young because he obviously have see them up close and watched their games. This thread just seems like a copy of SLAM magazine, really how can you guys rank players that you have only seen play in All Star games? 

No unless you somehow watch the ABCD and Nike camps I don't think it is your place to judge and rank. Just my opinion but you have to see a player pretty long to get a good feel for him, not just a post season All Star game.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Westbury Christian is like 2A in texas I believe*

it is crap competition. They play alot of small parochial schools. 


I've seen Ebi at camps since he was a sophomore and he hasnt improved much at all. Maybe during the summer but I would take Shannon Brown over him any day. Lebron is obviously better, Outlaw, Perkins are also better. He isnt better than any of the top 2-3 big men in 2004 either. Ebi is one of those players who you can forget is on the floor sometimes. He gets pushed around alot but he is ferocious on the weakside block. I am not saying he is sorry but he is a two year college player. 



Telfair is better than anyone of the pgs in 2004 and the only reason why people like Livingston is that he is 6-6. Not that he isnt a good player but Telfair does stuff with the ball you cant touch and he is silky smooth. Telfair knows the game, his poblem Telfair can run with anyone, do you see who plays with, not a single major D-1 prospect on the team and they run NY like that. As for his shooting it is a mystery he has good form but it doesnt fall but when he is on he is on.


Shakur isnt even the best pg in his class, thats funny. Chris Paul is way better than him. Talk about a general, the kid does it all That kid is sick, I wish Maryland would have gotten him but we have a lot og deph at gaurd. Its good ot be able ot turn down McDAA like Paul and top 20 recruits like I. Swann.


JY nobody plays better ball than the DC area. The WCAC is the ACC of high school bball. If you go by population the DC area is probably the tops.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Westbury Christian is like 2A in texas I believe*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> 
> Shakur isnt even the best pg in his class, thats funny. Chris Paul is way better than him. Talk about a general, the kid does it all That kid is sick, I wish Maryland would have gotten him but we have a lot og deph at gaurd. Its good ot be able ot turn down McDAA like Paul and top 20 recruits like I. Swann.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I have seen both of these young guys play an play alot and believe me Shakur is head and shoulders above Chris Paul. You have to remember its not a mistake that Shakur became the top PG prospect this last year for nothing. Most of you have only seen Shakur for a year tops and his magnificent senior year which he avg a triple double only solidifies that he is the best in his class. Right now Paul honestly cant hold a candle to Shakur. if Paul was so dominating no matter who is at guard in Maryland they would have made space.


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## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

ebi can also stay in the draft, get drafted in the 1st round then go back to school for a year or two and still have a contract. unless the team that drafted him doesnt like him, then they can release him and he can get signed wherever i think.. or go into the draft again i'm not sure.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Just wondering how have you guys seen all of these high school ballers play? I believe Justin Young because he obviously have see them up close and watched their games. This thread just seems like a copy of SLAM magazine, really how can you guys rank players that you have only seen play in All Star games?
> 
> No unless you somehow watch the ABCD and Nike camps I don't think it is your place to judge and rank. Just my opinion but you have to see a player pretty long to get a good feel for him, not just a post season All Star game.


You are right watching an allstar game is not a good way to evaluate becuz they are playing against no defence. That is why I say people should watch them in league play. That is why even though I have seen a player like Barbosa in the worlds I will never rank him unless I have seen him in Brazil league play. That is also why I never rank any player I have not seen. Like you I also think Justin has very valid points obviously since he works for nbadraft.net and has more resources than the common folk. That is why I hate getting in arguments with people who have not seen these players they are criticizing becuz if you haven't seen him play how in the world can you criticize them? 
Word of mouth can sometimes often be farce.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JustinYoung</b>!
> I want him to suceed because I really, really like the kid. Honestly, I do. If he indeed stays in the draft I can see him going to team like Sacramento (who has watched him closely as did the Blazers at two camps I was at). If he goes to either of those teams what will he learn? Nothing.


i was thinking about what team he would fit with(because of this thread) and i think he would be perfect for the spurs. they will have a late 1st rounder and he will be able to sit on the bench for a couple of years until he is physically ready. by then, bowen will be older and probably not as effective and ebi could take his spot as a defensive stopper only ebi would be a better offensive player. it seems like a good fit to me(if he stays in the draft).



> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Just wondering how have you guys seen all of these high school ballers play?


he played my high school. i went and saw the game.



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> it is crap competition. They play alot of small parochial schools.


actually they are a private school. and they went and played some pretty good schools in texas.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*BEEZ*

Johnny G, Chris McCray, Mike Jones Dre Collins and DJ Strawberry equals no space if he would have committed he would struggle to get pt.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: BEEZ*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> Johnny G, Chris McCray, Mike Jones Dre Collins and DJ Strawberry equals no space if he would have committed he would struggle to get pt.


Doesnt matter. Dj Strawberry is not a PG, he doesnt even have great handles IMO. Hes better than Jones and McCray. One of them would have had to sit. Chris Paul is good but Shakur is better


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Dj Straw will eb playing some point at*

MARYLAND. Its funny you say he has no handle since he played some point at pg and is considered a slashing type gaurd. I guess you can drive to the basket and not be able to handle the ball. :laugh: 



I dont think anyone would agree with you in the assesment that Shakur is better than Paul. Shakur was turned away by Maryland two. He listed them as a favorite early on but when he realized he would get no pt he moved on elsewhere. i wish him luck. Look Isaiah Swann one of the better gaurds to come through DC in the last 10 years or so including Bogans and Forte is being turned away by Maryland and he is a top 20 recruit. Why because they see that they will have to struggle to get pt. (Gary is loyal to his upper classmen) Swann has been considered a terp lock since his freshman year. But there is simply no room for him. I dont think Jones is better than Paul but I would rate them on par with one another. McCray is probably the best shooter MD has had since Rhodes and that says a lot when you look at the history. He just needs to get stronger.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Dj Straw will eb playing some point at*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> MARYLAND. Its funny you say he has no handle since he played some point at pg and is considered a slashing type gaurd. I guess you can drive to the basket and not be able to handle the ball. :laugh:
> 
> 
> ...


Have you watched DJ Strawberry play. I have seen him play many times and he cannot handle the press. Also your statement of nobody think that Shakur is better than Paul. Well the colleges coaches and scouts must not have meant much to make him the #1 rated PG in the class. Also Maryland never turned Shakur down. He looked for a team that suited his style of play thats why it came down to Arizona, Illinois and to a lesser extent Villanova.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Just wondering how have you guys seen all of these high school ballers play? I believe Justin Young because he obviously have see them up close and watched their games. This thread just seems like a copy of SLAM magazine, really how can you guys rank players that you have only seen play in All Star games?
> 
> No unless you somehow watch the ABCD and Nike camps I don't think it is your place to judge and rank. Just my opinion but you have to see a player pretty long to get a good feel for him, not just a post season All Star game.


I'm only 18, so I still play AAU basketball in New Jersey. I went to Big Time Tournament, Cactus Jam, Peach Jam, etc. My team was pretty good, we played in a lot of major invitationals. Since I'm such a fan of recruiting and whatnot, I liked to watch these guys play (I even played against some of them). 

And to watch the ABCD camp is a half-hour drive.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> I'm only 18, so I still play AAU basketball in New Jersey. I went to Big Time Tournament, Cactus Jam, Peach Jam, etc. My team was pretty good, we played in a lot of major invitationals. Since I'm such a fan of recruiting and whatnot, I liked to watch these guys play (I even played against some of them).
> 
> And to watch the ABCD camp is a half-hour drive.


Who do you play AAU ball for? I only ask because there wasn't any Jersey kids at the Peach Jam. Usually aren't.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

With all of this wonderful prep talk going on, I just wanted to remind everyone that there is a high school forum on this site. It is underused in my opinion. Please stop by there throughout the summer. I'll be at the Tournament of Champions at UNC, Duke and NC State next week so be sure to stop by and check out the reports. 

With all of that said, I'm going to already be a hypocrite and chime in on the prep talk.

I'd take Chris Paul over Mustafa Shakur, but just by a hair. Watch Wake Forest play their best basketball next year. Eric Williams will become an All ACC player because of Paul. Shakur will be looking for more than 20 minutes a night. That doesn't mean Paul is better but I think as a point guard Paul makes those around better. Look at Jason Kidd. Do you think Richard Jefferson and Keynon Martin would be having these types of games every night? Albeit they are good players despite who is at PG, but it is a worthy debate for a different time and place.

Telfair is good. I can't wait to watch him in action next week. But I'd take Darius Washington in a heartbeat. Washington would be a good pro prospect if A. he ate a Whooper everynight before going to bed. And B. saw a doctor about his vision. He never sees his teammates. I'd take Daniel Gibson too. But both of those players aren't primary points. I havan't seen Livingston yet but I will this weekend as well. From what I've been told, he's special. The jury is still out. 

DJ Strawberry is terrible. His name is his ticket. But I must admit, if Gary Williams's staff likes him enough to bring him across the country to play, then I can't argue too much. I mean, look at what Steve Francis, Juan Dixon and Drew Nicholas became. But for now, I stand by my statement of DJ Strawberry is terrible. There are 400 other players that I'd take over him.

DC may be a hot spot but I'd still go to Georgia or Texas first to find my talent for my program. 

If the 20 rule is passed, 2004 would be a terrible year to pass it. There are so many studs in this class. Al Jefferson, LaMarcus Aldridge, Josh Smith, Dwight Howard, Marvin Williams, Mohamed Tangara and Tahirou Sani have all shown and said they are interested in jumping. And that is just the post players!

I love Smith's game. I'm lucky enough to live down the street from him and watch him all the time. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending how you look at it), he doesn't have the grades to hack it in college so jumping to the league makes sense. He is the best prospect out of the bunch. At 6-8, he can knock down the NBA three or play inside (which is getting much better at). This kid loves to play above the rim. That really is an understatement.

Remember this name: Louis Williams. He is the best player in the class of 2005. I'd even venture to say he could be a top 10 player right now regardless of high school class. His first step is better than just about everyone. If he comes to your town or within 50 miles, go see him. It's worth it. At 6-3, he is comfortable at both guard spots. And mighty fine at either one.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: Dj Straw will eb playing some point at*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Have you watched DJ Strawberry play. I have seen him play many times and he cannot handle the press. Also your statement of nobody think that Shakur is better than Paul. Well the colleges coaches and scouts must not have meant much to make him the #1 rated PG in the class. Also Maryland never turned Shakur down. He looked for a team that suited his style of play thats why it came down to Arizona, Illinois and to a lesser extent Villanova.


I've seen DJ play a couple of times and while his handles are not the level of an ACC pg they dont need to be. He wont be asked to play that to possibly his junior year. We didnt brinh him in for the offense we needed him for the defense, and I dont care what Justin says, defense is something you are always looking for, offense can be improved defense is hard to either you have the desire or you dont. BTW Justin using hyperbole doesnt validate yourt argument. 




You say you would take Washington over Telfair even though Washington has poor vision, last time I checked that is part of the majopr criteria for a pg, if you have no vision how can you pass and det up your teammates. Wahsingtonis good, but I think most of the hype comes from the fact he is 6'6". BTW what Telfair does with the Railsplitters is amazing that team has absolutley no talent after him yet they are the two time defending champions in NY.


Justin maybe overall but consistently DC area has more talent/ per capita than naybody and the quality of basketball is the best. I dare anybody to find a better bball league than the WCAC in the country. It is the ACC of high school ball.


Justin you like JR I think he is a hell of an athlete but basketball wise he doesnt do it for me. He can shoot, but sometimes I wonder why he is so hesitant to take it to the basket he can fly just above just about everybody.


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## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

You say po-tay-toe, I say po-tot- toe. We don't share opinions. No problem.


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## Mao_Ying (Jun 23, 2002)

Hold on a second...isn't Darius Washington a skinny 6'0 combo guard?


> You say you would take Washington over Telfair even though Washington has poor vision, last time I checked that is part of the majopr criteria for a pg, if you have no vision how can you pass and det up your teammates. Wahsingtonis good, but I think most of the hype comes from the fact he is 6'6". BTW what Telfair does with the Railsplitters is amazing that team has absolutley no talent after him yet they are the two time defending champions in NY.


 Is it not Livingston who is 6'6??


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mao_Ying</b>!
> Hold on a second...isn't Darius Washington a skinny 6'0 combo guard? Is it not Livingston who is 6'6??


you are correct


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*My bad I get the two confused*

sometimes my age is showing.


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