# Detroit Pistons Off-Season Thread



## Ruff Draft

*Flip Saunders future?*

If Flip can't guide our team to the Finals or better this year, is he a goner? I myself love Flips offensive game, but some of his plan is severely lacking. What do you guys think? Who could be his replacement? 

I'm all for Terry port being handed the rings as head coach. He's a tough guy and seems to know how to run it.


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## STUCKEY!

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

I hope he is a goner if he can't get this group to the finals. I'm sick of wasting our time with Flip. As for a replacement I honestly have no clue.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

I think we need a coach who can get us back to our hard-nosed this is our house kind of play even more. Our team has played together enough and long enough to exceute on the offensive end well enough. We need a coach that can make the right plays when we need them.


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## MLKG

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

I think Flip has a good working relationship with the front office and his job has never been in question. He's not going anywhere anytime soon, and honestly, I don't think he should.

I think he's good a coach. With Larry Brown out of the league, Pat Riley soon to follow, and Phil Jackson probably never leaving LA (unless for the Knicks) - there really isn't anybody worth going out to get. Flip is firmly entrenched towards the top of the second tier coaches.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

I guess if those guys do call it quits soon, he will be one of the better coaches in the league. It's just that his failures can harm our team when it matters most.


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## Chan Ho Nam

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

jeff van gundy?


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## Lope31

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Jeff Van Gundy piques my interest a lot. His New York Knicks team in 1999 was one of the grittiest defensive teams I can remember. Marcus Camby that year became one of my favourite guys to watch, imagine Jason Maxiell in that role. I don't like planning for replacement coaches while Flip Saunders is still on calling the shots (I've never really had anything against him), but I have to say Van Gundy is someone I would take a closer look at. AND, who knows how much differently the Malice at the Palace would have been if Van Gundy was out there hanging on to Ron Artest's leg.


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## Midnight_Marauder

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Now, I dont like talking about replacing a coach when we are the number 2 seed.. and a legit contender this year... it really really looks like the players dont like to play for Flip.. I am not saying he lost his team.. but its pretty close..


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Midnight_Marauder said:


> Now, I dont like talking about replacing a coach when we are the number 2 seed.. and a legit contender this year... it really really looks like the players dont like to play for Flip.. I am not saying he lost his team.. but its pretty close..


Whats it like back in 2007? I hear the fashion trends are really weird.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Rasheed is the only player that's had problems with Flip, and they're good now. Our old guys just are too lazy.


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## Midnight_Marauder

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



ChrisWoj said:


> Whats it like back in 2007? I hear the fashion trends are really weird.


Eh.. Its hard to tell if this team just doesnt like coaching at all.. I felt like Flip at least had some of the players still.. but this year.. It is just really obvious... Either way.. back to just hiding in the shadows.. See you guys in a year or so again.. Thats about all I can take from message board people..


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## jvanbusk

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Midnight_Marauder said:


> Eh.. Its hard to tell if this team just doesnt like coaching at all.. I felt like Flip at least had some of the players still.. but this year.. It is just really obvious... Either way.. back to just hiding in the shadows.. See you guys in a year or so again.. Thats about all I can take from message board people..


Back to the shadows already?

Hope you are still holding down the Marysville courts.


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## jvanbusk

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

By the way, I like Flip and don't think he is going anywhere, nor should he.

BUUUUUUT,

If we want to play that game, what about the guy the Bulls are apparently going after?


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Tom would be an awesome signing.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Midnight_Marauder said:


> Eh.. Its hard to tell if this team just doesnt like coaching at all.. I felt like Flip at least had some of the players still.. but this year.. It is just really obvious... Either way.. back to just hiding in the shadows.. See you guys in a year or so again.. Thats about all I can take from message board people..


What? Dude, I remember last year he had NOBODY. He seriously had the respect of nobody on this team. Saying you felt like he had at least some of them "still"? Huh? He had nobody. Somehow he rebuilt the trust, though, and he seems to be as on-page as anybody is going to be with this core.


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## The Enigma

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



MLKG said:


> I think Flip has a good working relationship with the front office and his job has never been in question. He's not going anywhere anytime soon, and honestly, I don't think he should.
> 
> I think he's good a coach. With Larry Brown out of the league, Pat Riley soon to follow, and Phil Jackson probably never leaving LA (unless for the Knicks) - there really isn't anybody worth going out to get. Flip is firmly entrenched towards the top of the second tier coaches.


That would be assuming that no more great coaches will be developed. Keep in mind that all of the coaches you noted above did not begin great coaches. Every great career must begin somewhere.

Flip may be entrenched with this front office but I am going to go on a limb and predict that they will never win with him as coach. Sooner or later the finger pointing will be turned to the front office itself for their failure to see this.

Leadership characteristics are a great quality for a coach to have; I do not see it in Flip. A calm hand and a strong will even in the bleakest of spots is a great quality for a coach to have; I do not see it in Flip. The courage to stand your ground and sit a key player who is giving a poor effort is a great quality for a coach to have; and yet again I fail to see this in Flip. X’s and O’s are not the only qualities of great coaches. Strong leadership abilities more then anything is what separates the Philip Saunders of the world from the Greg Pop’s and the Larry Brown’s.

If this team loses in the first round it will be a typical Flip Saunders pre Piston playoff outcome. First it was KG could not get it done, now its, these lazy Pistons cannot get it done. At what point do people begin to realize that there is a fairly consistent pattern here (50+ win regular season, playoff collapse)?


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## OneBadLT123

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Austin Kent said:


> Jeff Van Gundy piques my interest a lot. His New York Knicks team in 1999 was one of the grittiest defensive teams I can remember. Marcus Camby that year became one of my favourite guys to watch, imagine Jason Maxiell in that role. I don't like planning for replacement coaches while Flip Saunders is still on calling the shots (I've never really had anything against him), but I have to say Van Gundy is someone I would take a closer look at. AND, who knows how much differently the Malice at the Palace would have been if Van Gundy was out there hanging on to Ron Artest's leg.


The team has some great defensive potential, so I can see this being an interesting combination indeed.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

I'd give JVG a shot if we keep this team together, but not if it results in a blow-up.


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## NewAgeBaller

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

I'd say you could use a better coach if he fails to get you to the finals this series, but realistically theres not many options right now.

Its not happening but if Riley coached the Pistons next season, would the majority here be happy or disappointed?


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Joe D told the players at half-time that he's not afraid to trade anyone. I wonder what he had in store for Flip?


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## STUCKEY!

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



NewAgeBaller said:


> I'd say you could use a better coach if he fails to get you to the finals this series, but realistically theres not many options right now.
> 
> Its not happening but if Riley coached the Pistons next season, *would the majority here be happy or disappointed*?


Anything is better than Flip... ok thats not fair to say that but still.


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## Sammysummer

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Saunders is going to be on on The Mike Tirico ESPN Radio show around 2:20 today. Just wanted to give a heads up.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

It's just that Flips flaws hurt our team a lot. He doesn't know when to play players, or to control the tempo. He has a good offensive system though. Avery Johnson sounds like the exact opposite, so I wouldn't want to look there.


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## Deke

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

pistons title dreams died the second they fired larry brown.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Deke said:


> pistons title dreams died the second they fired larry brown.


Don't post if you have no idea what you're talking about. KPLZTHXBAI.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Deke will go out of his way, and defy any logic to prove the Bulls are the best team in the league.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Wow I didn't realize that it was the same kid posting in both threads. I can't believe he thinks Detroit FIRED Larry Brown. Why does he even post here? Is he really that bitter that the Bulls didn't make the playoffs?


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

I like what I have seen from Flip during these past few games. He's kept it together, and did alright.

One thing though, less Hayes more Afflalo.


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## Deke

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Ruff Draft said:


> Deke will go out of his way, and defy any logic to prove the Bulls are the best team in the league.


i have never said that. all i said is the pistons title dreams died when brown was fired and its a true statement as of today.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Deke said:


> i have never said that. all i said is the pistons title dreams died when brown was fired and its a true statement as of today.


Not really. They're in the ECF and in the thick of it for the title.


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## irishfury

If you where Joe D what would you do this offseason? 

Elton Brand would look nice in a piston jersey!


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Offseason moves?*

What I would do, Is trade for Chris Kaman. But that's impossible.

I have plenty of ideas running through my head, but I would like to see our playoff run before I put them all together


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Offseason moves?*

S&T Fabio to Golden State for Kelenna.


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## Goubot

*Re: Offseason moves?*

I'm not entirely sold on Kaman. His percentages aren't great for a center, and he's incredibly turnover prone. These were issues for him even when he wasn't a focal point of the offense. He's become a useful defensive player, though. 

Not sure why the Clippers would want to trade him away when he just had a career year. Even if Brand leaves and they decide to retool, Kaman would be an easier piece to build with rather than Maggette or anyone else on that team. 

Azubuike's interesting. Decent shooter and finisher but no in between game. I think his game would suffer a bit since Detroit doesn't run, and even the younger second unit doesn't necessarily push the ball that much. He'd be taking most of his minutes from Afflalo, who is a superior defender but much worse on offense. I think the Warriors could bite on that since Hermann can fit in with that system, but it leaves Detroit a bit crowded at backup SG.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Deke said:


> i have never said that. all i said is the pistons title dreams died when brown was fired and its a true statement as of today.


When did we fire Larry Brown?


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## irishfury

*Re: Offseason moves?*



Ruff Draft said:


> What I would do, Is trade for Chris Kaman. But that's impossible.
> 
> I have plenty of ideas running through my head, but I would like to see our playoff run before I put them all together


I agree. I have alot of ideas but I need to see how the rest of the playoffs go.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Offseason moves?*

I'm not sold on Kelenna either, but he would be an awesome punch off the bench. The Zoo crew loves to run. Afflalo is great defensively, but he needs to work on his jumper badly. Either way he deserves more PT than Hayes. In a perfect world Afflalo and Walter would be getting major minutes at the 2 & 3 respectively. Next year I would like to see...

Billups/ Stuckey/ Dixon
Rip/ Afflalo
Tayshaun/ Walter
Maxiell/ Amir
Rasheed/ McDyess/ Theo

Resigning Theo would be worth it. He'd come on the cheap. Hopefully the same with Juan. Depending on the draft this may change entirely. I'd like DeVon Hardin to learn everything he can from our veteran bigs.


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## Zuca

*Re: Offseason moves?*



Ruff Draft said:


> S&T Fabio to Golden State for Kelenna.


I can't see GS willing to do this. But I can see Hermann swapped for O'Bryant, though.


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## NewAgeBaller

*Re: Offseason moves?*

Yea I don't see GS giving up on Kelena for Hermann.

Hows Hermann going for you guys anyway? Does he get minutes?


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## DjiNN

*Re: Offseason moves?*

is there away to get Dwayne Wade since the HEAT doing so bad at the moment?


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Offseason moves?*



NewAgeBaller said:


> Yea I don't see GS giving up on Kelena for Hermann.
> 
> Hows Hermann going for you guys anyway? Does he get minutes?


He plays enough for us to see what he is capable of, even if it's entirely visible that he is superior to Jarvis Hayes. He doesn't get enough PT is what I am trying to say.


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## NewAgeBaller

*Re: Offseason moves?*



DjiNN said:


> is there away to get Dwayne Wade since the HEAT doing so bad at the moment?


:azdaja:


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Offseason moves?*



DjiNN said:


> is there away to get Dwayne Wade since the HEAT doing so bad at the moment?


The Heat will be the four seed in 2009.

CENTER
Haslem
Marion
Wade
Rose

The question is, who plays center?


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## ike

*Re: Offseason moves?*

Is there any way we could get Bonzi Wells here next season? He's a free agent this summer. Depending on if we're not breaking the core I think he could be a great addition. He's physical enough to guard guys like Pierce and Lebron and he would also give some scoring to our bench. I think he's a friend of Rasheed too :biggrin:

BTW, Bulls and Heat will be big threats after landing the top two picks. East is getting stronger and stronger and I like it.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Offseason moves?*

I've wanted Bonzi here for awhile, but it never happens. I won't get my hopes up!


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Offseason moves?*

Miami and Chicago should hopefully be back next year with their remodeling. For years to come as well.


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## irishfury

*Re: Offseason moves?*

Yeah I do agree I think Bonzi would be a great fit here.


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## scapegoat

*Re: Offseason moves?*

i want to see CDR back in the D.


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## STUCKEY!

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

So I'm starting to believe Flip is a fine coach. It is the players that can't do jack****. Billups has lost his mojo He seems to have one good game then one horrid game one after another, Rip seems to be performing fine, Tayshaun after the 2 superb rounds of the playoffs has gone on to do nothing in this series, then theres rasheed who is his same inconsistent self and Mcydess aswell as stuckey have played fine so you can't put the blame on them.
If we lose in the ecf its time to rebuild move sheed,chauncey and mcdyess. Living on past glory is stupid.


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## afobisme

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



ChrisWoj said:


> When did we fire Larry Brown?


larry was fired when woodson (or whatever the name of the owner is) got fed up with him. at least that's what i remember.


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## scapegoat

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

i want to give him benefit of the doubt because of his injury, but billups has looked old for a minute now.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



afobisme said:


> larry was fired when woodson (or whatever the name of the owner is) got fed up with him. at least that's what i remember.


The correct answer is Larry Brown was looking at other jobs and negotiated a buyout with the Pistons to be allowed to find work elsewhere (read: Cleveland or New York).


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Flip has done well this year. I'm proud of him. If we don't win this series, we need changes. Desperate changes. I can't help but think Flip's system is the reason we are having such holes.


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## croco

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*



Ruff Draft said:


> Flip has done well this year. I'm proud of him. If we don't win this series, we need changes. Desperate changes. I can't help but think Flip's system is the reason we are having such holes.


:thinking2:

He (or his system) is responsible for not taking the last step, but you are proud of him despite of that ?


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

Well I like his system, but it does create some of our problems. Lack of rebounding is priotirty #1. There is no reason we should get owned like that. I'm more proud of his improvements, than his system in general.


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## STUCKEY!

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/52800/20080602/looks_like_flip_is_staying/ God Damnit.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Flip Saunders future?*

The reason Flip is staying: Change for the sake of change is *idiotic.*

Look, if there was a coach out there that you could say is head and shoulders ahead of Flip Saunders, wanted to come to Detroit and was free to do so... go for it. But right now the only guys available are only arguably as solid as Saunders. We'd be merely moving sideways, I'll take some continuity over a sideways move and a new system to learn.


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## Dissonance

*Pistons say Flip Saunders won't return as coach*

link



> AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- The Detroit Pistons say Flip Saunders will not be back as coach next season.
> 
> "Decisions like this are difficult to make," team president Joe Dumars said on the team's Web site. "However, at this time, I feel it is necessary to make a change."
> 
> In his three seasons, the Pistons were 176-70 in the regular season and 30-21 in the postseason, but they lost in the conference finals each year.
> 
> Saunders had a year left on a four-year deal he signed in 2005. He replaced Larry Brown, who won a title in two trips to the NBA finals.
> 
> He has a career record of 587-296 in 13 years with the Pistons and Minnesota Timberwolves


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## DANNY

*Re: Pistons say Flip Saunders won't return as coach*

regardless he's still one of the better coaches out there. he'll find a another coaching gig in no time.

it's funny how he complies a ridiculous winning percentage with the piston yet everyone wants to usher him out of detroit as soon as possible.

i dont blame dumars for firing him though. the pistons offense looked plain and dull during the whole playoffs. the whole sole reason for his was to improve the pistons offense. sadly, he hasnt done much.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Pistons say Flip Saunders won't return as coach*

I don't blame him. Not his fault Sheed didn't show up for game six until 7:10 and decided to mail the game in.


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## Yega1979

*Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

Portland trades:
Raef LaFrentz(expiring contract), #13(and two 2nd rounders), Travis Outlaw, Jarrett Jack, Martell Webster

Pistons trade:
Chauncy Billups
Tayshaun Prince


Why the Pistons do it:

They unload Billups contract, paving the way for Stucky to be the starting PG, in addition, they get Jack, who is a poor man's Billups to back up Stuckey.

They lose Prince, is is a very good all round SF, but get Outlaw and Webster, who can both be explosive scorers and haven't yet reached their potential (either one could turn out to be a real steal). They could also pick up a nice addition at #13.


Why Portland does it:

They get a good veteran PG who's got a few years left in the tank. And kick start what looks like a very promising future. We also thin an overloaded roster, and get the defender at SF that McMillen covets.


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## B-Roy

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

Yeah.....Kevin McFail wouldn't even do this.....(from Detroits perspective)


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## Yega1979

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

Maybe, Portland is giving up some nice young talent in return. It's not like Billups or Prince are world beaters.


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## B-Roy

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*



Yega1979 said:


> Maybe, Portland is giving up some nice young talent in return. It's not like Billups or Prince are world beaters.


Billups isn't bad enough to be "dumped", especially since PGs play at a high level well into their 30s.

Prince is a great player who is part of the future for Detroit. He's one of the LEAST likely players to be moved.

And this is clearly a case of Portland fans overvaluing their assets....


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## DANNY

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

why dont you include hamilton and sheed while you're at it 

:lol:


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## Yega1979

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*



DANNY said:


> why dont you include hamilton and sheed while you're at it
> 
> :lol:



Sure we'll take Rip Hamilton as well, but not Rasheed. Portland and Rasheed are not exactly on speaking terms.




Portland trades:
Raef, #13, Travis, Webster, Jack

Pistons trade:
Billups
Hamilton
Prince


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## seifer0406

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

can you at least provide the lube? Astroglide is a popular choice.


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## scapegoat

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

no, if any two of these four gets traded, it's for one superstar. the pistons can still contend next year.


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## DANNY

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

sheed must be included in this trade since we need to "pave the way" for walter hermann.


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## hoojacks

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

Why are Blazers fans having a conversation on the Piston board?

There's no way this happens.


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## STUCKEY!

*Carmelo*

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/52893/20080608/pistons_eye_carmelo_source_says/


> The Detroit Pistons could have drafted Carmelo Anthony in the 2003 NBA Draft, instead going with Darko Milicic.
> 
> Now they may try to acquire the star forward of the Denver Nuggets via trade, Mark Kiszla of the Denver Post is reporting.


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## DANNY

*Re: Carmelo*

it's really hard to grasp what carmelo's price tag will be


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Carmelo*

I'm guessing somewhere along the lines of... EXPENSIVE. This would be interesting. I'm fairly certain that Tayshaun Prince would be involved along with future number ones and this year's number one.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

Yeah, Dumars isn't that stupid. Idiotic trade.


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## MLKG

*Re: Carmelo*

I think he's more obtainable than people think.

Scorers are very expendable in Denver. They are desperate for a point guard, they need defense, and they need to cut salary.

A Billups/Sheed for Carmelo/Camby swap seems like it would be very enticing for both teams. Chauncey is beloved in his hometown.


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## scapegoat

*Re: Carmelo*

carmelo/camby might not be enough, in my opinion. camby still has two years left and has taken a few steps back, contrary to popular belief. carmelo still has totally cemented his superstar status and is a potential headcase. 

i would expect joe d to get a little more for a big fat expiring (sheed) and a hometown hero who does indeed have a big contract and declining game, but still a ways to go before he peters out. plus with that deal you're relegating prince to the bench and trusting the starting pg role to stuckey.

it's not to say i don't like the idea of trading for melo and i agree that the idea is enticing, i just wanna see klieza included. not to threadjack, but the previous two posts raise a question in my mind: how has more trade value, prince or billups?


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## DANNY

*Re: Carmelo*

well i would assume that we'll use prince as a trade bait to acquire a starting PF


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## a couple beers

*Re: Carmelo*

I hope this comes through. I would be one happy Pistons fan if we acquired Melo.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

I'm all for trying to get Carmelo and Nene. Camby is way too old.

Maybe a package of Billups/Tay/Max/Filler could net us Melo/Nene and maybe Kleiza?

Stuckey
Rip/ Afflalo
Melo/ Kleiza
McDyess/ Amir
Rasheed/ Nene

Maybe we could swap first rounders as well? The 20th pick could grab us a good player this year. I would then look into trading Rasheed for youth/expirings/filler.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

Denver isn't going anywhere if they keep Melo, they would need to rebuild. A trade with Detroit would give A.I. the supporting cast he has always wanted.

Billups
A.I./ Smith
Tayshaun/ Najera
Martin/ Maxiell
Camby


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Carmelo*

What about Chauncey Billups, Arron Afflalo and Detroit's first round pick for Carmelo Anthony? Then Tayshaun Prince, Amir Johnson and Cheikh Samb for Lamar Odom and Jordan Farmar.

*Pistons*
PG: Rodney Stuckey...Jordan Farmar
SG: Richard Hamilton
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Lamar Odom...Jason Maxiell
C: Rasheed Wallace...Antonio McDyess

*Nuggets*
PG: Chauncey Billups...Chucky Atkins
SG: Allen Iverson...Arron Afflalo
SF: Linas Kleiza...J.R. Smith
PF: Kenyon Martin
C: Marcus Camby...Nene...Steven Hunter

*Lakers*
PG: Derek Fisher
SG: Kobe Bryant...Sasha Vujacic
SF: Tayshaun Prince...Vladimir Radmanovic...Luke Walton...Trevor Ariza
PF: Pau Gasol...Amir Johnson
C: Andrew Bynum...Ronny Turiaf...Chris Mihm


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

Tayshaun for Odom isn't going to happen... ever 

Denver is going to want more though. They really want to move Camby or Nene as well.

Detroit should really bite on it. Get those two guys at any costs, keeping Stuckey/Amir though.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

Denver is going to want Billups so bad. It's also pretty easy to tell that Tayshaun will end up leaving as well. I'd love to then ship out Rasheed for whatever.


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## nbanoitall

*Re: Carmelo*

from a denver fan perspective... and its not just my opinion... its the commonly held one... just listen to the radio...
trading carmelo isn't an option because we cant get a young star back for him. the guy has had some minor off the court issues... but hes gotten the nuggets to the playoffs in the western conference every year hes been in the league.... even his rookie year when the team was supposed to be terrible... lebron cant say the same about this 
my point is the nuggets screwed up royally by not keeping mutombo around. if they trade melo for a guy whos 32 or whatever and can only go down hill.... nuggets fans might never forgive the organization this time... plus.. good luck selling tickets, merchandise etc
when melos name has been mentioned the nuggets always deny it publically anyways... right now nuggets fans have got to assume this is just a bunch of smoke... maybe to motivate Melo for next season. but if the nuggets do a melo for billups swap they wont make the playoffs next year... and its all down hill from there. 
hey im not trying to keep you guys from dreaming, but if Dumars pulls it off he should just be given the executive of the year award and the nuggets front office (owner included) should be sent to special ed.


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## jvanbusk

*Re: Carmelo*

I personally wouldn't want to see us trade for Carmelo. He's probably my least favorite player in the entire league.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Carmelo*

I'd honestly rather see us draft Bill Walker...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft...=MockDraft-080609&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos1
Chad Ford's latest mock draft has us grabbing him. Wait, wasn't I the first to propose this idea over a month ago? Where's my kudos here, Ford?!


----------



## jvanbusk

*Re: Carmelo*



ChrisWoj said:


> I'd honestly rather see us draft Bill Walker...
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft...=MockDraft-080609&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos1
> Chad Ford's latest mock draft has us grabbing him. Wait, wasn't I the first to propose this idea over a month ago? Where's my kudos here, Ford?!


Walker or CDR?

I think he had the Pistons taking CDR in one of his earlier versions. I like both, but prefer the local kid.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Carmelo*

Bill Walker is a slightly more athletic version of Carlos Delfino. Complete with streaky jumpshot and slow first step.

I think you could do worse that late in the 1st round though.


----------



## DANNY

*Re: Carmelo*

i would definitely take bill walker over CDR.

maybe its just me but i like bill walker's potential


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: Carmelo*



MLKG said:


> Bill Walker is a slightly more athletic version of Carlos Delfino. Complete with streaky jumpshot and slow first step.
> 
> I think you could do worse that late in the 1st round though.


Lets see...
1. Through the roof athleticism
2. A good handle
3. A fantastic work ethic
4. As a result of 3, fast improving jump shot.

I'm looking for the comparison to Carlos Delfino here, and I'm not seeing it. Oh yeah, plus he's American. Not a foreigner.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

"I’ll say this – we’re not talking to teams about their second- or third-best player. If I’m going to put these types of guys on the market, then don’t waste your time talking to me about guys you don’t like. Nothing is imminent. … They know we’re open.” 

-Joe Dumars


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Carmelo*



ChrisWoj said:


> Lets see...
> 1. Through the roof athleticism
> 2. A good handle
> 3. A fantastic work ethic
> 4. As a result of 3, fast improving jump shot.
> 
> I'm looking for the comparison to Carlos Delfino here, and I'm not seeing it. Oh yeah, plus he's American. Not a foreigner.


1. Athletic, but not springy. Two ACL tears have robbed him of that. He still has a good verticle, but he's slow off the ground and with his first step. 
2. For an NBA guard, I would call his handle poor. He's not going to be able to get away with turning his back on defenders after two dribbles like he did in college.
3. All hustle and heart, which is why I like him. Will definately fight for rebounds.
4. He improved his college 3-ball, yes. Will probably be a decent shooter from the corners in the NBA. He does not shoot well off the dribble and has no inbetween game to speak of.

I compare him to Delfino because he's big and athletic and makes a lot of hustle plays, but his quickness and handle will really hold him back.


----------



## croco

*Re: Carmelo*



MLKG said:


> 1. Athletic, but not springy. Two ACL tears have robbed him of that. He still has a good verticle, but he's slow off the ground and with his first step.
> 2. For an NBA guard, I would call his handle poor. He's not going to be able to get away with turning his back on defenders after two dribbles like he did in college.
> 3. All hustle and heart, which is why I like him. Will definately fight for rebounds.
> 4. He improved his college 3-ball, yes. Will probably be a decent shooter from the corners in the NBA. He does not shoot well off the dribble and has no inbetween game to speak of.
> 
> I compare him to Delfino because he's big and athletic and makes a lot of hustle plays, but his quickness and handle will really hold him back.


He wasn't a hundred percent during his sophomore season (actually freshman because of the injury) and you could see it from the look of his body. He got the opportunity to work out extensively since March and it's showing:
















*March 2008 - June 2008*

He could build up his knees in a way he would have never without the injury. His pre-injury athleticism is back according to a lot of articles and scouts and that is a big plus. I agree that his handle right now is mediocre at best for a guard, that is something he will have to work on although it's gotten better. Again, he wasn't a hundred percent during the season and that effects his entire demeanor, agility and ability on the court. 

Not only will he hustle, but he is also a bright kid and that is usually a good combination, even more so when you add a great work ethic to that.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

Channel 4 had a Joe D interview today. He said he was in talks with Denver, but not just for Melo. He also has about 6 other teams on the table.


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: Carmelo*



MLKG said:


> 1. Athletic, but not springy. Two ACL tears have robbed him of that. He still has a good verticle, but he's slow off the ground and with his first step.
> 2. For an NBA guard, I would call his handle poor. He's not going to be able to get away with turning his back on defenders after two dribbles like he did in college.
> 3. All hustle and heart, which is why I like him. Will definately fight for rebounds.
> 4. He improved his college 3-ball, yes. Will probably be a decent shooter from the corners in the NBA. He does not shoot well off the dribble and has no inbetween game to speak of.
> 
> I compare him to Delfino because he's big and athletic and makes a lot of hustle plays, but his quickness and handle will really hold him back.


1. Athletic AND springy. He has lost 25 pounds that he didn't have the time to lose after his last injury but before the most recent season. That springiness is back.
2. He's not going to project as a guard. He's going to be 6'8 and despite listings I'd bet he's 6'7 now. He still has some filling out to do as well. I think he's a SF.
3. Agreed!
4. Shooting can be learned. Remember what a spectacular three point shooter Rip Hamilton was when he came to Detroit? Neither do I. But he's put in the time, something everyone says Walker is willing to do.

He just seems like a natural fit for the Pistons.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Carmelo*



ChrisWoj said:


> 1. Athletic AND springy. He has lost 25 pounds that he didn't have the time to lose after his last injury but before the most recent season. That springiness is back.
> 2. He's not going to project as a guard. He's going to be 6'8 and despite listings I'd bet he's 6'7 now. He still has some filling out to do as well. I think he's a SF.
> 3. Agreed!
> 4. Shooting can be learned. Remember what a spectacular three point shooter Rip Hamilton was when he came to Detroit? Neither do I. But he's put in the time, something everyone says Walker is willing to do.
> 
> He just seems like a natural fit for the Pistons.


Well, he's 6'6" until he's not. I don't think you can project growth.

Bill Walker's jumper is almost a set shot. He doesn't elevate and he pushes the ball too much. He can put in the reps to become a more accurate shooter, but he's always going to be held back by his mechanics. He doesn't have the speed on his release to become an effective mid range player. As a shooter, he'll never be much more than a spot up guy in the corners.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*



> Charlotte Trades:
> C: Emeka Okafor (re-signed)
> SF: Adam Morrison
> SG: Jason Richardson
> 
> Charlotte Receives:
> C: Rasheed Wallace
> PG: Allen Iverson
> Denver 08 1st rd Pick #20
> Pistons 08' 1st rd Pick #29
> 
> Bobcats trade 2 young stars for 2 ol stars who just happenin to be Larry's boys. Worst comes to worst, that's alot of expiring contracts and picks.
> 
> 
> Denver Trades:
> SF: Carmello Anthony
> SG: Allen Iverson
> Denver 08 1st rd Pick #20
> 
> Denver Receives:
> SF:Tayshaun Prince
> SG: Jason Richardson
> PG: Chauncey Billups
> 
> Denver trades 2 all-stars for 3 all-stars (to a lesser extent). Overall they become deeper, and in my opinion better..
> 
> 
> Detroit Trades:
> C: Rasheed Wallace
> SF: Tayshaun Prince
> PG: Chauncey Billups
> Pistons 08' 1st rd Pick #29
> 
> Detroit Receives:
> C: Emeka Okafor
> SF: Carmelo Anthony
> SF: Adam Morrison
> 
> Detroit gets a elite scorer in Anthony and a defensive minded big in Okafor, both of which they covet.


:clap2:

Stuckey
Rip
Melo
Okafor 
McDyess

Billups
J. Rich
Tayshaun
Nene 
Camby

Felton
A.I.
Wallace
Sheed
Nazr


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: Carmelo*



MLKG said:


> Well, he's 6'6" until he's not. I don't think you can project growth.
> 
> Bill Walker's jumper is almost a set shot. He doesn't elevate and he pushes the ball too much. He can put in the reps to become a more accurate shooter, but he's always going to be held back by his mechanics. He doesn't have the speed on his release to become an effective mid range player. As a shooter, he'll never be much more than a spot up guy in the corners.


And you don't see any of those things as fixable? I do. Players can improve their mechanics. Some guys succeed with crap mechanics and don't ever change (Prince, Marion, etc.) but it doesn't mean other guys can't change.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Carmelo*



ChrisWoj said:


> And you don't see any of those things as fixable? I do. Players can improve their mechanics. Some guys succeed with crap mechanics and don't ever change (Prince, Marion, etc.) but it doesn't mean other guys can't change.


Fixable to a degree. Maybe. By the time a guy gets to the NBA, he's usually passed the point of making anything but minor tweaks to shooting mechanics. Trying to make large changes can do more harm than good.

Anybody can become a better shooter through repetition, but shooting in the NBA is as much about footwork, balance, and instincts as it is accuracy. He doesn't have a fast release, he hasn't shown an in-between game, and he doesn't elevate. 

Could that all change? I guess. But putting faith in a guy for things he's shown no proficiency at in the past but could conceivably develop down the road is getting into pretty strange territory.

That's not scouting or projection. It's a man-crush.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

I want Melo on this team so badly!


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

Portland has got nothing Detroit would even consider looking at.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*



Ruff Draft said:


> Portland has got nothing Detroit would even consider looking at.


I dunno...I would consider a deal of Outlaw, Frye and the #13 for Prince. However, Dumars has basically said that he wants to acquire a big-time player.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Detroit-080612



> 1. Denver's Carmelo Anthony, Chucky Atkins and No. 20 pick for Billups and Prince
> 
> This deal has already been rumored for a while. Nothing is imminent, in part because Anthony and Billups are base-year-compensation players. They can't be traded for each other until after July 1, when they lose that designation.
> 
> This move isn't as farfetched as it seems. The Nuggets are struggling and need some balance on their team. They're desperate for a point guard to run the team, especially one who can shoot. And they probably can't move Allen Iverson, Kenyon Martin or Nene, which appears to limit their two tradable assets to Marcus Camby and Anthony.
> 
> Anthony would give the Pistons a go-to scorer. He has struggled to keep his nose clean in the league, but there's no denying his talent. Playing with a more disciplined, structured team like the Pistons could be just what Anthony needs. Detroit would miss Billups' leadership, but Stuckey should be able to come in and hold down the fort.
> 
> But are the Nuggets getting enough for Carmelo? It's debatable. A backcourt of Billups and Iverson would be formidable. Prince is a glue guy who would add some defense. And Billups could help set an example in the locker room. But unless the Nuggets were to get great years from Martin and Nene, would they have enough to win in the West?
> 
> Another factor also speaks against the Nuggets pulling the trigger. Billups turns 32 in September. Anthony just turned 24. History says that, in the long run, the Pistons would win this trade.
> 
> But if the Nuggets decide they want to cut ties with Anthony and still compete for a championship, this may be the best option they're going to get.
> 
> 2. Utah's Carlos Boozer, Ronnie Brewer, Jarron Collins and Morris Almond for Hamilton, Prince and Arron Afflalo
> 
> As a contender without the right pieces to get over the top, the Jazz are in a similar boat as the Pistons. Could this swap help both teams?
> 
> Utah would get two veteran wing players to shore up its two weakest positions on the floor. The Jazz would lose an All-Star in Boozer, but the move would allow them to shift Andrei Kirilenko back to the 4, where he thrived before Boozer joined the team -- and they have Paul Millsap to back him up. Also, Boozer has an early termination option after the upcoming season. I think the Jazz are concerned that he'll bolt Utah for a bigger market.
> 
> Detroit would be giving up two key wings but getting back a low-post scorer and rebounder in Boozer, something the team has needed the past few years. Stuckey would step in as the starting 2 guard. Brewer would give the Pistons a long defender who can play both the 2 and 3, and Almond showed a lot of promise in the D-League last year. The Jazz would still need to find someone to play the 3, but they have trade bait like Jason Maxiell or Antonio McDyess to make that happen.
> 
> This is a trade that would shake up the core of both teams while allowing them to compete for an NBA championship next year.
> 
> 3. Dallas' Josh Howard for Tayshaun Prince or Richard Hamilton
> 
> Howard is a talented player, but he appeared to wear out his welcome in Dallas this spring with revelations, during the playoffs, that he smokes pot in the summer.
> 
> With the Mavericks desperately trying to compete for a title next season as their roster ages, adding a playoff veteran like Prince or Hamilton makes a lot of sense. Prince is a better fit in terms of position, but the Mavs could really use another scorer like Hamilton as well.
> 
> For the Pistons? They win either way. Howard can both defend and put up numbers offensively. If they were to swap Hamilton for Howard, the Pistons could find plenty of deals for Prince to bring them back something else they needed.
> 
> 4. Charlotte's Gerald Wallace, Adam Morrison, Sean May and No. 9 pick for Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince
> 
> Larry Brown has a history of stepping into messy teams and immediately posting impressive results. But he'll struggle to do that in Charlotte unless he gets a few proven winners to put alongside some of the Bobcats' younger players.
> 
> This deal would reunite Brown with two of his favorite players from his run with the Pistons. Put Raymond Felton, Jason Richardson and a re-signed Emeka Okafor on the floor with Prince and Rasheed Wallace and you're looking at a playoff team in the East. The deal also would give the Bobcats some future cap flexibility should they want to make more additions down the road.
> 
> The Pistons would lose two core players but add an excellent scorer and defender in Wallace. At No. 9, a number of interesting big men could be available, including Kevin Love, Brook Lopez, Darrell Arthur, Marreese Speights and Kosta Koufos. As for Morrison and May? They both look like draft busts right now … but their contracts expire at the end of the season.
> 
> 5. New Jersey's Richard Jefferson, Nenad Krstic (via sign-and-trade) and No. 10 pick for Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince
> 
> This is a deal that the Nets, especially, would be motivated to do. But it would have to wait until free agents could sign their deals in mid-July.
> 
> The Nets are trying to find ways to clear cap space for the summer of 2010 to be in the running for LeBron James. This deal would help them achieve that goal. While Prince and Jefferson both have four more years on their contracts, Prince makes roughly $4 million less a year than Jefferson. In the meantime, Wallace and Prince would keep the team competitive in the East.
> 
> The Pistons would get another big-time scorer in Jefferson. And Krstic looked like a potential All-Star big man before he tore his ACL about 18 months ago. He is finally getting back to 100 percent, and the Pistons could probably get him at a reasonable number to shore up their front line. With the 10th pick in the draft, the team would have to take whomever the Nets selected. But considering that all signs point to New Jersey going big here, it would likely be another big body who could help.
> 
> 6. Houston's Tracy McGrady and No. 25 pick for Rip Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace
> 
> This is the least favorable option for the Pistons, but worth noting.
> 
> The Rockets flirted with moving McGrady at the trade deadline, but they couldn't find a deal that worked for them. Would the Pistons be able to help them out?
> 
> McGrady, like Anthony, is a go-to scorer, and at 29 years old, he still has some gas left in the tank. He averaged 27 ppg in the Rockets' last playoff series with Utah.
> 
> The key advantage for the Pistons? They would get some important, long-term cap relief down the road -- enough to make a run at a max free agent.
> 
> But there's a significant downside here. McGrady has never led a team deep into the playoffs. He also has a history of back problems and has missed significant portions of several seasons.
> 
> This deal would be a no-brainer for the Rockets, who would seriously upgrade their guard position and, with Wallace, would put the perfect complement next to Yao Ming.


The only deal I would do would be the Denver deal. The Charlotte deal is alright, but I think Rasheed could get us a bit more. Morrison is garbage.


----------



## STUCKEY!

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*

The Denver deal is by far the best imho, and the Utah deal isn't bad. I don't really like the Charlotte deal aswell, why bother trading with Charlotte if we don't get emeka.


----------



## silverpaw1786

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*

Sheed is too old to get you more. From Detroits perspective I would do the Denver deal in a heartbeat, the Utah deal, the Dallas deal for Prince but not Hamilton, the Charlotte deal, and the Houston deal.

That New Jersey deal is an effing joke. Why the Pistons would do that is beyond me.


----------



## silverpaw1786

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*

I think Ford has the 1st rounder going the wrong direction in the Denver deal.


----------



## DANNY

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*



STUCKEY! said:


> *The Denver deal is by far the best* imho, and the Utah deal isn't bad. I don't really like the Charlotte deal aswell, why bother trading with Charlotte if we don't get emeka.


i agree. anything to get rid of billups i'm up for it.


----------



## mediocre man

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*



Ruff Draft said:


> Portland has got nothing Detroit would even consider looking at.



That's as dumb as the original posters trade idea. Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden would all be welcomed additions to the Pistons or any other team. Rudy Fernandez and #13 are also assets I would assume people would "consider looking at" too. 

As for the original post. That is the worst trade I have seen in a while. Detroit has no reason whatsoever to make that deal. Maybe, and I mean maybe Detroit might consider Outlaw, #13 and something for Billups. I still don;t think they would though


----------



## scapegoat

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

i think he meant that portland has nothing that detroit could feasibly look at. i assume that the three you mentioned are untouchable.


----------



## MrJayremmie

*Re: Blazers/Pistons trade idea*

Yea, not a good trade for Detroit.

Dumars knows what he is doin'.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

And now for something crazy...

Billups/ Prince/ Filler for Melo/ Filler

Rasheed/ Filler for Eddy Curry/ Filler maybe even McDyess and Afflalo for curry

I'm still an Eddy Curry fan, and I think one more change of location would show what his career will be like. Curry is destined to work every player on our roster.

In a couple years...

Stuckey
Rip
Melo
Amir
Curry


----------



## nbanoitall

*Re: Carmelo*

the nuggets giving up AI and Melo. eeeh. seriously there is no reason to expect Melo to get traded. George Karl denied it. Melo's agent denied it. The Nuggets have AI and Camby to shop around the league. No reason to move Melo.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

If they want to win now they have to move Melo. They don't have a team to use with him. It's going to be ALOT harder to trade A.I. It's much easier to build a win now team too with A.I.


----------



## nbanoitall

*Re: Carmelo*



Ruff Draft said:


> If they want to win now they have to move Melo. They don't have a team to use with him. It's going to be ALOT harder to trade A.I. It's much easier to build a win now team too with A.I.


how is it going to be a lot harder to trade AI. hes an all star with an expiring contract. trading AI isn't hard. its finding the right deal.
the nuggets arent going anywhere if they move Melo but the Lotto. thats ridiculous... why do you think all these teams are calling on him. and what do we get back... older guys that cant fill Melos shoes. I dont care of its billups from the pistons are jefferson or carter from the nets. either way its a big time loser for the nuggets. we are talking another post mutombo era here... Billups understands what thats like. 
the fans will continue to support the team if they trade AI... but Melo... screw ticket sales merchandise etc.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Carmelo*

A.I. make 20 Mill. That's a lot harder to trade for than Melo's contract. It's a huge rebuilding process for Denver if they don't make a move now.


----------



## nbanoitall

*Re: Carmelo*



Ruff Draft said:


> A.I. make 20 Mill. That's a lot harder to trade for than Melo's contract. It's a huge rebuilding process for Denver if they don't make a move now.


thats the point. the knicks have Marbury under the exact same 19 million dollar contract and they are getting offers from him purely for the financial benefits of his expiring contract... AI has the same contract...only he can actually still ball. 
the team plays zero D. the vets gotta go for younger guys. it is a rebuilding process and hopefully it will be a short one. you dont trade your 24 year old all star and pile up less talent that is older. that makes zero sense for an 8th seed team. The only way the Nuggets trade Melo is if they cant swallow their pride and admit their AI experiment failed. you want melo i get it. but no DUI makes trading him to the pistons a smart trade.
i'm not a fan of the nuggets front office, but they arent exactly bernie bickerstaff either.


----------



## scapegoat

*Re: Carmelo*

i think that if the pistons offered enough cap relief and young talent, the nuggets would give up melo and just start over from scratch in '10 in the name of "fixing the image." give up sheed and prince for k-mart and melo, you've got two expiring contracts and the giant albatross of k-mart lifted off of your cap. 

plus, the citizens of denver won't have to abide by watching "thugs" any more.*

*tongue planted firmly in cheek.


----------



## nbanoitall

*Re: Carmelo*



scapegoat said:


> i think that if the pistons offered enough cap relief and young talent, the nuggets would give up melo and just start over from scratch in '10 in the name of "fixing the image." give up sheed and prince for k-mart and melo, you've got two expiring contracts and the giant albatross of k-mart lifted off of your cap.
> 
> plus, the citizens of denver won't have to abide by watching "thugs" any more.*
> 
> *tongue planted firmly in cheek.


ah so if you send us Rasheed Wallace that should fix our phatom image problem. Yes Melo got a DUI but Lebron also took his car out and got busted for going triple digits. Go fix their image problem. no matter how much you want to justify the trade its hard to do. you cant go at it from a talent aspect so first ruff draft goes after it from a AI is to hard to trade. Hes an expiring contract so instantly that theory is well worthless. then you decide the nuggets have an image problem.
well you really should look up jersey sales, ticket sales etc. the nuggets have an image problem when people stop showing up to games and stop buying things. if you want a image problem for the nuggets they should just make one of these stupid trades so they have no image... and nobody shows up... and nobody buys any jerseys.


----------



## Lope31

*Re: Carmelo*

I think the common theme in this thread is that it would be nice to get Carmelo Anthony, but it's getting tougher and tougher to justify the deal. To be honest, I don't think Denver would even touch most of the offers that have been put forward in this deal. I think the best deal the Pistons could hope for is a Billups and Wallace package for Carmelo Anthony. 

This has nothing to do with image, it's strictly because the Nuggets are stagnant and so are the Pistons. In this deal the Nuggets clearly get the advantage in 2008-09 because Billups is one of the best point guards in the league and Sheed only make their front court even deeper. But despite the short term advantage I think Joe Dumars would even still have to cross his fingers for this one to go down because Carmelo Anthony is one of the best assets to have in the NBA. Detroit can only hope they catch Denver at a vulnerable time.

From a Pistons stand point this is golden. There is no chance they reel in Camby along with this deal, but that's okay. Rasheed Wallace is highly touted as the most talented player on the Pistons but he rarely ever proves it. Sheed has been my least favourite starter since 2005. As for Billups? He's a great player, and certainly one of the best at his position in the league, but he throws this team under the bus just as often as he saves them with all of those deep threes he shoots.

On another note altogether, I think the Pistons will sorely regret even considering trading Prince. I've also heard Maxiell's name thrown in as filler. No way. A Pistons team that consists of Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Maxiell, Mcdyess and Johnson will be so much better in both the short term and the long term. Add in Carmelo Anthony and it's smooth sailing. The phrase addition by subtraction is at work here, even without Melo coming in, I still feel a team without Billups and Sheed would fare better in the playoffs. We have so many scorers on this team who can step up, but they don't because Billups and Sheed have been defaulted as our best players. Maybe in theory, but in practice? Not true.


----------



## nbanoitall

*Re: Carmelo*



Austin Kent said:


> I think the common theme in this thread is that it would be nice to get Carmelo Anthony, but it's getting tougher and tougher to justify the deal
> This has nothing to do with image, it's strictly because the Nuggets are stagnant and so are the Pistons. .Detroit can only hope they catch Denver at a vulnerable time.
> .


bingo. you get it. as a nugget fan id be interested in Rip because he would fit in well, but when I read Dumars was looking to trade his older guys I was impressed that he was using his head. The Nuggets have AI, Camby and other older guys to shop around the league. That could mean trying to get JO and Tinsley (the pacers probably would like to send them out of the eastern conference). could mean trying to get mike redd. I was impressed with John Salmons last year so hes still on my list. Maggette is opting out etc. There is just no need to trade Carmelo and if you look at it honestly no deal that was made public makes any sense. Sure its great to hope for him but Karl and Melo's agent are denying it. I totally get why the Piston fans would want Melo... even hope they get vulnerable enough to make a poor decision... but dont try and sell how good it is for the Nuggets.


----------



## drexlersdad

*Re: Carmelo*

trading melo would be stupid for the nuggs. he is what 24? you build around him by trading some of your older assets (ai, camby) and hope to strike gold with some prospects coming back. why they would trade their franchise/ perennial allstar/ olympic regular/ scoring leader is beyond me. for a 1 or 2 year window with billups?

it would probably take someone else's young superstar to even start the conversation.

you guys are probably looking at going after some 2nd tier players, who are a little younger than billups and sheed.


----------



## jimeiz

*Re: Carmelo*

Lakers all the way babyyyy:

http://sportsfeud.blogspot.com

http://sportsfeud.blogspot.com/2008/06/nba-adriana-lima-marco-jaric-are.html

Tell us what you think...


We have interesting basketball posts.

http://sportsfeud.blogspot.com/2008/05/nba-why-kobe-bryant-is-next-mj.html


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Carmelo*

It doesn't make any sense that Denver would even be taking phone calls about Carmelo. But supposedly they are, which to me is a red flag. Do they know something everybody doesn't?

I'm reminded of an article Sam Smith wrote after the recent Josh Howard and Joakihm Noah incidents about how alcohol, and not marijuana, was the real drug of abuse in the NBA.

He claimed there were high profile players in the NBA with major drinking problems that teams and agents know about but are kept under the rug because the teams don't want them to lose trade value.

Coincidence that the rumours of Denver taking offers for Carmelo come shortly after he's arrested at 4:00 in the morning for drunk driving with a BAC twice the legal limit after a bad game?

I don't know that it is indicative of a greater problem, but the mere fact that he may even be on the market is a red flag that something else may be going on.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*



> Zach Randolph could be a likely trade target for the Pistons this summer as they look to shake up their roster, according to The Detroit Free Press.
> 
> Randolph doesn't fit well in Mike D'Antoni's system with the Knicks, and he wouldn't be nearly as expensive as other players who have been linked to the Pistons, such as Carmelo Anthony.
> 
> The former Michigan State star has three years and $48 million remaining on his current deal.


Via The Detroit Free Press

Dear god, No.


----------



## STUCKEY!

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*

Um...Wtf. How does that help us!!!?!? rofl that is so stupid.


----------



## ChrisWoj

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*



silverpaw1786 said:


> Sheed is too old to get you more. From Detroits perspective I would do the Denver deal in a heartbeat, the Utah deal, the Dallas deal for Prince but not Hamilton, the Charlotte deal, and the Houston deal.
> 
> That New Jersey deal is an effing joke. Why the Pistons would do that is beyond me.


You miss the point on Sheed completely. His high salary number as an expiring contract transcends his age.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*



STUCKEY! said:


> Um...Wtf. How does that help us!!!?!? rofl that is so stupid.


Something you have not had in years, a go to DEEP post player. Give up expiring contracts and you have a deal.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*

I would like Zach if he played defense, even a lick of defense. I would like to say that Curry could change that, but I doubt it.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*



Ruff Draft said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Detroit-080612
> 
> 
> 
> The only deal I would do would be the Denver deal. The Charlotte deal is alright, but I think Rasheed could get us a bit more. Morrison is garbage.


Some of these trades make absolutely no sense to me.

*Trade #1: Denver and Pistons*
Why would the Nuggets give up on a player like Carmelo Anthony that is clearly an all-star, clearly capable of helping a team win, and clearly young enough to get better? Billups and Prince are both good players but certainly are not capable of bringing a championship to Denver. The West is far too deep and those two would not enjoy the same sort of supporting cast with the Nuggets to really make a signficant impact for that team. The trade is an absolute bomb financially for a Nuggets team that clearly markets off of Anthony's star power. Give up Iverson who clearly not getting any better and clearly not doing much for that team in terms of evident progress.

*Trade #2: Utah and Pistons*
This is dummer than the first trade. The Jazz are clearly a titan in the West and would be breaking up there core for what? To get smaller in a conference where a go to big man like Boozer is clearly necessary to be considered a serious contender. Kirilenko is better than Prince, so this aspect of the trade is mute and Hamilton is not going to have the impact of a Carlos Boozer. Chad Ford needs a dose of reality.


*Trade #3: Mavs and Pistons*
At least now your getting a little bit more reasonable. Howard supposedly has an attitude and maturity problem (which was his rap **** when he got drafted). The Pistons have veteran players that are similarly skilled and have been in pressure situations before. The Mavericks therefore lose very little in terms of talent/production and gain experience which is crucial in an ever-improving Western Conference. The Pistons would have to give up a little more in terms of a draft pick or a younger player along the lines of an Affalo but this is definately the kind of blueprint for a REALISTIC trade to build off of since BOTH teams actually benefit.


*Trade #4: Bobcats and Pistons*
This is just as ridiculous as the first two. Honestly, what is the difference between Prince and Wallace? There is no real gain here since Wallace does exactly what Prince does, *only better* and is younger to boot. Experience is clearly in Prince's favor but what use is that if your supporting cast clearly is not capable of winning anything of significance now or in the near future? I like the idea of adding Rasheed Wallace but he certainly can not be the primary eye candy in a trade like this at his age, at his current production and with his baggage. Larry Brown might want to win but the reality of the situation is that he's gone to programs with YOUNG teams and turned them around; the Pistons was his only exception. The Bobcats and their personnel is no strange situation to him because it's been his situation his ENTIRE career coaching young inexperienced teams. 


*Trade #5: Nets and Pistons*
Again, you guys have a nice group of guys but are not better players removed from their team and system. Fact, none of your guys has ever won anything without the current group of guys. Fact, none of your guys has ever successfully carried a franchise. Fact, none of the guys you really have on the block are below 30. These are the realities and your not going to get the kind of trades Ford is proposing. The only teams that would really be interested in your players are those that are on the verge of winning or think that they can win. New Jersey would have never dealt Kidd if they honestly thought they could win and would have very little in terms of a supporting cast after you guys rape them in that draft. Jefferson is clearly a better player than Prince and I would have to say that Nenad and the pick are worth more than a guy like Wallace unless you can compete for a championship; why else would you take on his baggage at that price?


*Trade #6: Rockets and Pistons*
FINALLY!!!!!!!! Ford actually got a realistic trade on his list. As good as McGrady is, his back issues are still a concern and has been unable to get the Rockets over the hump (even though this was there year before Yao went down). Yao is a good enough player where he can be a player your offense centers around, which makes McGrady expendable. Rasheed and Hamilton's range and experience compliment Yao and the Rocket's championship aspirations very well. 

I'd have to ask the question though, why would the Pistons do it? McGrady does not make you a better ball club and at this point; he is too old to be apart of a rebuilding project. Adding him however does give you an actual go-to player (if this is what you felt you needed) and might be able to quickly retool to win. This move definately can not be considered a long-term move, however.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*

...As a fan of a team currently rebuilding, I strongly suggest you guys make trades for the future. The Pistons as presently constructed still have a pulse and can continue to get you some pretty impressive seasons for at least 2 or 3 more years tops. What would you guys do after then, when the key components of those teams are not nearly as springy as they once were and still have a lot of money owed to them? You follow this route and I gaurantee you guys will regret it because what it leaves you is either the 2000-2001 New York Knicks or the 1999-2000 Chicago Bulls, neither of which is very encouraging. The after-effects of those poor decisions are still felt today by both organizations and may still continue to haunt them into the near future; maybe not the Bulls who have the no.1 overall pick but definately the Knicks.

It would be in your best interest to start making moves that slowly overturn the roster. This allows you to begin building the foundation that will take your team into the future and give them the opportunity to be competitive and gain the type of experience and seasoning they would not see without that sort of leadership present on the team. 

A perfect trade for you guys probably would be one that you guys hate. I actually think (Knick bias aside) that Zach Randolph would be an excellent move for you guys. He's 25 years old and is a 20 and 10 player. The guy has his warts but they certainly do not override his talent. Trade Rasheed Wallace for him and leave him with Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince for 1 or 2 seasons. Let him not have to feel the pressure of being the star of his team, let him experience a winning culture and let him become acclimidated with the work necessary to win. He certainly won't make you title contenders but he certainly will keep you competitive and turn you into one down the road. As much as he does have his issues, so did the guy he would be traded for and being around the Pistons certainly did wonders for his career......give Zach the same opportunity and see what he does with it. 

Beyond that, I do not see you making any of these ridiculous moves being proposed. Working in the realm of reality, I do not see any moves that could net you a player as talented, as young and as capable as Zach Randolph currently is. Carmelo Anthony might be a slim possibility but you'd certainly have to give up all those prominent players you guys have and at least a draft pick for it to make sense. I could see something along the lines of a Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess and your draft pick this year for Carmelo Anthony, Nene and Kenyon Martin. The Nuggets get the keys to a championship run (which won't work) to place around Iverson and Pistons get a YOUNG franchise player and long-term contracts to compensate for that fact. In the East, that could net you a couple playoff berths and an inevitable contender spot. The question is whether you'd want to assume the injury risk, attitude and money for guys like a Martin or Nene. This would definately be a best case scenario because you'd still be left with Richard Hamilton and your young cast of role players.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*



TwinkieFoot said:


> It would be in your best interest to start making moves that slowly overturn the roster. This allows you to begin building the foundation that will take your team into the future and give them the opportunity to be competitive and gain the type of experience and seasoning they would not see without that sort of leadership present on the team.


Rodney Stuckey, Jason Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Aaron Afflalo....


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*



MLKG said:


> Rodney Stuckey, Jason Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Aaron Afflalo....


Are you trying to make your best Memphis Grizzlies impression? None of those guys are going to be able to shoulder a team. Outside Stuckey, none of those guys might even be starters. They certainly are a start for young role players but definately can not be taken to be much more than that.


----------



## silverpaw1786

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*

twinkie, you are more of a homer than the bulls fans. Noone wants zach randolph's fat ***. He is garbage and is not going to get you Sheed in return. Wait until the trading deadline and you may have a prayer that some team is willing to sacrifice chemistry for a shot at the playoffs


----------



## silverpaw1786

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*

No way will Dumars do that. He's too smart, don't worry pistons fans.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*



STUCKEY! said:


> Um...Wtf. How does that help us!!!?!?


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*



silverpaw1786 said:


> twinkie, you are more of a homer than the bulls fans. Noone wants zach randolph's fat ***. He is garbage and is not going to get you Sheed in return. Wait until the trading deadline and you may have a prayer that some team is willing to sacrifice chemistry for a shot at the playoffs


Dude, hop off my sac. If you didn't notice, the Pistons sound like a team willing to sacrifice winning now for a shot at doing so in the future. Randolph has some drawbacks in his game but so does every young player. Simple things like defense and passing out of double teams are certainly things that can be improved. Things like scoring the basketball in the post and rebounding are the two hardest things to do in basketball and both of them Zach do exceptionally well. He's a better project that any other young player you could bring in via draft or trade.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*

The fact that I may be warming up to a trade for Randolph sickens me.

If a trade with Denver is to happen, we'll have to take home all their garbage contracts. K-Mart/Camby and Nene. I still hope everyday I wake up and see that deal has been completed. :frown:


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Chad Ford's Detroit Trade Ideas*



Ruff Draft said:


> The fact that I may be warming up to a trade for Randolph sickens me.
> 
> If a trade with Denver is to happen, we'll have to take home all their garbage contracts. K-Mart/Camby and Nene. I still hope everyday I wake up and see that deal has been completed. :frown:


Welcome to the reality of rebuilding my friend. To be perfectly honest, you could do a lot worse than Kenyon Martin and Nene in terms of bad contract. Both of those guys are productive when healthy and both are relatively young to be of some use both now and do the road.

An interesting deal for you guys would be a 3 way trade between the Knicks, Pistons and Nuggets. You guys still give up Billups, Wallace, Prince, McDyess, Affallo and the 29th but get back Carmelo Anthony, Nene, Martin and cash incentives from the Knicks. The Nuggets get all the Pistons in the trade aside from Affallo and Wallace but get Zach Randolph who they had interest in during the trade deadline. This deal would be perfect. 

The Nuggets get their championship supporting cast but still have a 25 year old Zach Randolph to show for giving up on a 24 year old Carmelo Anthony; some time with true professionals should help Randolph both on and off the court. He definately alleviates any scoring problems the Nuggets would have down low after the trade.

The Pistons get there franchise player and a decent supporting cast too boot. Realistically, a starting lineup of Stuckey, Hamilton, Melo, Martin and Nene should still be playoff caliber in the East. Bad move giving up Flip Saunders who could have done a lot with this interesting cast of players.

The Knicks get the financial flexibility they been searching for in addition to Affallo who is a solid young role playr and an additional pick in this years draft. I doubt we keep Rasheed unless we make moves for players to win now like Michael Redd, Kirk Hinrich and/or James Posey.


----------



## Pistons

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*

This guy is worthless.


----------



## Lope31

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*

Picking up Zach Randolph would simply kill this franchise. Joe Dumars isn't stupid.


----------



## Lope31

*Re: Carmelo*



MLKG said:


> It doesn't make any sense that Denver would even be taking phone calls about Carmelo. But supposedly they are, which to me is a red flag. Do they know something everybody doesn't?
> 
> I'm reminded of an article Sam Smith wrote after the recent Josh Howard and Joakihm Noah incidents about how alcohol, and not marijuana, was the real drug of abuse in the NBA.
> 
> He claimed there were high profile players in the NBA with major drinking problems that teams and agents know about but are kept under the rug because the teams don't want them to lose trade value.
> 
> Coincidence that the rumours of Denver taking offers for Carmelo come shortly after he's arrested at 4:00 in the morning for drunk driving with a BAC twice the legal limit after a bad game?
> 
> I don't know that it is indicative of a greater problem, but the mere fact that he may even be on the market is a red flag that something else may be going on.


That's another point that's entirely true. We only really see a sliver of what goes on behind the scenes with these franchises. That being said, to we even really know if he was for sure on the table?

If Anthony did have a drinking problem, I still wouldn't drop interest in him. It sounds naive to say that there's a chance it wouldn't be an issue while he's in Detroit, but I really believe it. Like a player with chronic knee injuries, under a strict rehabilitation, recovery - though difficult - is possible.

He's young and it's hard to think the Nuggets have given up hope on him. This isn't Vin Baker we're talking about. 

So maybe that's it, it really could be, but then again it could be anything.


----------



## DANNY

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*

what if the knicks offer their 1st round pick + randolph for expiring?


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Possibley targeting Zach Randolph?*



DANNY said:


> what if the knicks offer their 1st round pick + randolph for expiring?


Tempting...


----------



## Ruff Draft

*Re: Offseason moves?*

Let's try to keep mostly everything in this thread relating to the off-season. The draft thread still serves it's purpose though.

How do you guys feel abotu James Jones? We don't have a bulls-eye shooter off the bench, and he could come to the D on the relatively cheap.


----------



## Ruff Draft

*List of free agents*

*Key:* ETO = Early Termination Option; P = Player Option; T = Team Option; '07 QO's = *BOLD*



*Atlanta Hawks*


*Restricted:* Josh Childress, Jeremy Richardson, Josh Smith, Salim Stoudamire, Mario West
*Unrestricted:* None
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr> 



*Boston Celtics*

*Restricted:* Tony Allen
*Unrestricted:* P.J. Brown, Sam Cassell, Eddie House, Scot Pollard, James Posey (P)
*Limited Salary Protection:* Leon Powe
<hr> 



*Charlotte Bobcats*

*Restricted:* Jermareo Davidson (T), Ryan Hollins, Emeka Okafor
*Unrestricted:* Derek Anderson, Earl Boykins, Othella Harrington (T)
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr>


*Chicago Bulls*

*Restricted:* Luol Deng, Demetris Nichols, Ben Gordon
*Unrestricted:* Shannon Brown, Chris Duhon
*Limited Salary Protection:* JamesOn Curry
<hr>


*Cleveland Cavaliers*


*Restricted:* Daniel Gibson, Dwayne Jones, Delonte West
*Unrestricted:* Devin Brown
*Limited Salary Protection:* Lance Allred, Billy Thomas
<hr>


*Dallas Mavericks *

*Restricted:* Jose Juan Barea
*Unrestricted:* Malik Allen, Devean George, Eddie Jones (P), Juwan Howard, Tyronn Lue, Jamaal Magloire, Antoine Wright
*Limited Salary Protection:* Brandon Bass
<hr>


*Denver Nuggets *

*Restricted:* Yakhouba Diawara, J.R. Smith
*Unrestricted:* Anthony Carter, Allen Iverson (ETO), Eduardo Najera
*Limited Salary Protection:* Bobby Jones, Taurean Green
<hr>


*Detroit Pistons*

*Restricted:* *Alex Acker*, Walter Herrmann
*Unrestricted:* Juan Dixon, Jarvis Hayes, Lindsey Hunter, Theo Ratliff
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr>


*Golden State Warriors *

*Restricted:* Kelenna Azubuike (P), Andris Biedrins, Monta Ellis, C.J. Watson
*Unrestricted:* Matt Barnes, Austin Croshere, Baron Davis (ETO), Patrick O'Bryant, Mickael Pietrus
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr>


*Houston Rockets*

*Restricted:* Carl Landry, Steve Novak (T)
*Unrestricted:* Dikembe Mutombo
*Limited Salary Protection:* Mike Harris, Loren Woods
<hr>


*Indiana Pacers*

*Restricted:* David Harrison, Andre Owens
*Unrestricted:* Flip Murray, Jermaine O'Neal (ETO), Kareem Rush 
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr>


*Los Angeles Clippers*

*Restricted:* Paul Davis, Nick Fazekas, Shaun Livingston, Marcus Williams
*Unrestricted:* Elton Brand (ETO), Dan Dickau, Corey Maggette (ETO), Smush Parker, Quinton Ross
*Limited Salary Protection:* Josh Powell
<hr>


*Los Angeles Lakers*

*Restricted:* DJ Mbenga, Ronny Turiaf, Sasha Vujacic
*Unrestricted:* Trevor Ariza (P), Chris Mihm (P), Ira Newble
*Limited Salary Protection:* Coby Karl
<hr>


*Memphis Grizzlies*

*Restricted:* Andre Brown, Juan Carlos Navarro
*Unrestricted:* Kwame Brown, Casey Jacobsen
*Limited Salary Protection:* None 
<hr>


*Miami Heat*

*Restricted:* Blake Ahearn, Chris Quinn, Kasib Powell, Dorell Wright
*Unrestricted:* Earl Barron, Ricky Davis, Shawn Marion (ETO), Alonzo Mourning, Jason Williams
*Limited Salary Protection:* Joel Anthony, Alexander Johnson, Stephane Lasme
<hr>


*Milwaukee Bucks*

*Restricted:* *Ersan Ilyasova*, Awvee Storey (T)
*Unrestricted:* Royal Ivey, Michael Ruffin, Jake Voskuhl
*Limited Salary Protection:* Ramon Sessions
<hr>


*Minnesota Timberwolves *

*Restricted:* Ryan Gomes, Craig Smith, Chris Richard, Kirk Snyder, Sebastian Telfair
*Unrestricted:* Michael Doleac
*Limited Salary Protection:* None 
<hr>


*New Jersey Nets*

*Restricted:* Nenad Krstic
*Unrestricted:* Darrell Armstrong, DeSagana Diop, Bostjan Nachbar, Stromile Swift (P)
*Limited Salary Protection:* Keith Van Horn 
<hr>


*New Orleans Hornets *

*Restricted:* None
*Unrestricted:* Chris Andersen, Ryan Bowen, Melvin Ely (P), Jannero Pargo (P), Bonzi Wells
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr>


*New York Knicks*

*Restricted:* Randolph Morris
*Unrestricted:* Fred Jones, Stephon Marbury (ETO)
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr>


*Orlando Magic*


*Restricted:* James Augustine
*Unrestricted:* Carlos Arroyo, Keith Bogans (P), Keyon Dooling, Maurice Evans, Adonal Foyle (P), Pat Garrity
*Limited Salary Protection:* Marcin Gortat
<hr>


*Philadelphia 76ers*

*Restricted:* Louis Amundson, Herbert Hill, Andre Iguodala, Shavlik Randolph, Louis Williams
*Unrestricted:* Calvin Booth (P), Kevin Ollie
*Limited Salary Protection:* None 
<hr> 



*Phoenix Suns*

*Restricted:* None
*Unrestricted:* Gordan Giricek, Grant Hill (P), Linton Johnson, Sean Marks, Eric Piatkowski, Brian Skinner
*Limited Salary Protection:* D.J. Strawberry
<hr> 



*Portland Trail Blazers*


*Restricted:* Von Wafer
*Unrestricted:* James Jones (P), Raef LaFrentz (ETO)
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr>


*Sacramento Kings*

*Restricted:* None
*Unrestricted:* Ron Artest (ETO), Kenny Thomas (ETO), Beno Udrih, Anthony Johnson, Lorenzen Wright
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr> 



*San Antonio Spurs*

*Restricted:* None
*Unrestricted:* Brent Barry (P), Michael Finley, Robert Horry, DerMarr Johnson, Damon Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas, Jacque Vaughn (P)
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr> 



*Seattle SuperSonics*

*Restricted:* Mickael Gelabale, Robert Swift
*Unrestricted:* Ronald Dupree, Francisco Elson
*Limited Salary Protection:* Adrian Griffin
<hr>


*Toronto Raptors*

*Restricted:* Jose Calderon, Carlos Delfino
*Unrestricted:* Primoz Brezec, Rasho Nesterovic (P)
*Limited Salary Protection:* Jamario Moon
<hr>


*Utah Jazz*


*Restricted:* C.J. Miles, Paul Millsap (T)
*Unrestricted:* Jason Hart (P)
*Limited Salary Protection:* None
<hr>


*Washington Wizards*


*Restricted:* None
*Unrestricted:* Gilbert Arenas (ETO), Antawn Jamison, Roger Mason
*Limited Salary Protection:* None


----------



## Ruff Draft

I'm all for Walter replacing Hayes, I love his game. I really think we need some toughness off the bench though. Someone on the wing who can come in for Tay and just push people around. A guy who will really get into things. Guys like Bonzi Wells and Ruben Patterson come to mind. If we could answer that in the draft it would be great, but I wouldn't bank on that.


----------



## DANNY

*Re: Offseason moves?*



Ruff Draft said:


> Let's try to keep mostly everything in this thread relating to the off-season. The draft thread still serves it's purpose though.
> 
> How do you guys feel abotu James Jones? We don't have a bulls-eye shooter off the bench, and he could come to the D on the relatively cheap.


james jones is the ****. he was vastly underrated in phoenix. came to portland and shot lights out. he was basically money when left open (watched several blazers vs lakers game) 

i dont know about him coming cheap though, seems like every team out there needs a shooter and are willing to pay the MLE to get one.


----------



## DANNY

Ruff Draft said:


> I'm all for Walter replacing Hayes, I love his game. I really think we need some toughness off the bench though. Someone on the wing who can come in for Tay and just push people around. A guy who will really get into things. Guys like Bonzi Wells and Ruben Patterson come to mind. If we could answer that in the draft it would be great, but I wouldn't bank on that.


dont know anything about walter but i'll take your words for it. if he cuts his hair, i'm all money.

dont like bonzi, seems like he's too up and down, down right inconsistent. 

love patterson though, watch several clipper games early in the season, and boy was a energizer out there. i'm really curious as to why non of the contenders wanted to sign him. i'm sure the lakers could of used his toughness and hustle during the finals.


----------



## Ruff Draft

The more I look at things, I really think we'll end up making a smaller dean than we all hope. All the Melo/Brand/Kaman/Okafor stuff just doesn't seem do-able most of the time.

Something like Rasheed for Dalembert & Carney. It saves Philly a large amount of money to sign Iggy, and it brings a hometown guy back. We get some youth and two serviceable players. Both who fit our needs.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I saw this idea on RealGM. Seems somewhat reasonable... Even though Odom has dropped off.

Detroit trades Billups, Tayshaun, and Maxiell.
Detroit receives RJ, Odom, #13, and #33

Portland trades LaFrentz, Outlaw, #13, and #33.
Portland receives Billups.

LA trades Odom.
LA receives Prince, and Swift.

NJ trades RJ, and Swift.
NJ receives LaFrentz, Outlaw, and Maxiell.

We end up...

Stuckey/ Draft?
Rip/ Afflalo
RJ/ Draft?
Odom/ McDyess/ Amir
Rasheed/ Draft?

LA
Fisher/ Farmar
Kobe/ Vujacic
Prince/ Radman
Gasol/ Swift
Bynum/ Turiaf

NJ
Harris/ Williams
Carter/ Draft?
Outlaw/ Draft?
Maxiell/ SWAT
Boone/ Krstic

PDX
Billups/ Blake
Roy/ Sergio
Webster/ Draft
Aldridge/ Frye
Oden/ Joel


----------



## Ruff Draft

Maybe after that deal we do the Sheed to Philly?

Stuckey
Rip
Jefferson
Odom
Dalembert


----------



## Ruff Draft

How about Billups to LA?

Chauncey and McDyess for Odom, Farmar, and Ariza.

Stuckey/ Farmar
Rip/ Afflalo
Tayshaun/ Ariza
Odom/ Maxiell/ Amir
Sheed


----------



## Ruff Draft

Another crazy idea...


DET trades: Rasheed Wallace, #29
DET recieves: Zach Randolph, Mickael Pietrus (S&T), #6

NYK trades: Zach Randolph, #6
NYK recieves: Al Harrington, #14

GSW trades: Al Harrington, Mickael Pietrus (S&T), #14
GSW recieves: Rasheed Wallace, #29

Billups/ Stuckey
Rip/ Afflalo
Prince/ Pietrus
Randolph/ Maxiell/ Amir
McDyess/ Pick


----------



## Ruff Draft

A logical Elton Brand trade?



> Detroit trades:
> Tayshaun Prince
> Antonio McDyess
> Jason Maxiell
> #29
> 
> Detroit receives
> Elton Brand
> Moon
> 
> Raptors trade:
> Ford
> Rasho
> Moon
> #17
> 
> Raptors receive:
> Prince
> Dice
> 
> Clippers trade:
> Elton Brand
> 
> Clippers receive:
> TJ Ford
> Rasho (expiring)
> Maxiell
> #17, #29


----------



## Ruff Draft

I don't think I can stop reading trade ideas...



> Denver Trades - Carmelo Anthony, Taurean Green, Marcus Camby
> Denver Gets - Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Vlad Radmanovic, LA Future 1st
> 
> Detroit Trades - Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince
> Detroit Gets - Carmelo Anthony, Taurean Green, Luke Walton
> 
> LA Trades - Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, Vlad Radmanovic, Future 1st
> LA Gets - Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince, Marcus Camby


Chalmers
Iverson
Kleiza
Odom
Bynum


Billups
Bryant
Prince
Gasol
Camby

Stuckey
Rip
Carmelo
Maxiell
Rasheed


----------



## Ruff Draft

A 4-team deal to get us two lottery picks? 



> Detroit trades:
> Billups, Dice, Maxiell, #29
> 
> Detroit receives:
> Zach Randolph, Cardinal, Blake, #5, #6
> 
> Portland trades:
> LaFrentz, Blake, Outlaw, #13, #33
> 
> Portland receives:
> Billups, Dice
> 
> Memphis trades:
> #5, Brian Cardinal
> 
> Memphis receives
> Malik Rose (expiring), #13, #33, $3 million cash
> 
> New York trades:
> Zach Randolph, Malik Rose, #6, $3 million cash
> 
> New York receives:
> LaFrentz(expiring), Outlaw, Maxiell, #29


----------



## Ruff Draft

How would you guys feel about a deal with Philly? I would look at a re-signed Iggy and Dalembert, but Miller may need to be thrown in. It especially makes sense if Philly get J. Smoove.

Sheed/Rip/Maxiell for Iggy/Dalembert

That's a young & exciting team with quite the potential!

Stuckey
Iggy
Prince
Amir
Dalembert


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## scapegoat

Ruff Draft said:


> The more I look at things, I really think we'll end up making a smaller dean than we all hope. All the Melo/Brand/Kaman/Okafor stuff just doesn't seem do-able most of the time.
> 
> Something like Rasheed for Dalembert & Carney. It saves Philly a large amount of money to sign Iggy, and it brings a hometown guy back. We get some youth and two serviceable players. Both who fit our needs.


s&t okafor and #9 for sheed, #29 and a future first. sometimes the simpliest moves are the best.


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## Pistons

Does anyone have any news? I am getting anxious. I want a big trade.


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## Ruff Draft

Word is that Miami wants to swap Marion for an elite point.

Marion for Billups?


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## Ruff Draft

What about a small three-way to round out rosters?

Lowry or Crittenton to Denver

Kleiza to Detroit

Maxiell to Memphis


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## ChrisWoj

So many things you propose are so out there, and I'm not hearing anything from any actual respectable sources. Thats mostly why I don't bother responding, its all pointless and unfounded conjecture. If you get something from a reliable source, I'll gladly discuss the deal's merits... but this is all meh.


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## Ruff Draft

I don't expect most of these to happen, just conversation starters.


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## Ruff Draft

The more I tghink about a possible trade for T-Mac, the more I like it. I think our main priority would be getting Battier back here. He's one of the best defensive players in the league, and wont back down from anyone.

Something like Rip/Tayshaun/McDyess for McGrady & Battier?

Billups/ Stuckey
McGrady/ Afflalo
Battier
Amir/ Maxiell
Rasheed


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## scapegoat

anyone like what the clippers are selling? sheed could fit in on their team.


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## Ruff Draft

I don't think LAC is having any sort of fire sale man.


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## Ruff Draft

I'd really love for Joe D to pull some Houdini **** and land us Carlos Boozer.


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## Ruff Draft

If Chicago doesn't feel right about things, how do you guys feel about a Luol Deng for Prince swap?


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## someone

Ruff Draft said:


> If Chicago doesn't feel right about things, how do you guys feel about a Luol Deng for Prince swap?


I'd be ok with it :biggrin:


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## Lope31

Ruff Draft said:


> What about a small three-way to round out rosters?
> 
> Lowry or Crittenton to Denver
> 
> Kleiza to Detroit
> 
> Maxiell to Memphis


Blech! I think we're underrating Maxiell quite a bit around here (and in this case overrating Kleiza. Simply put I would rather see Rasheed Wallace gone than Jason Maxiell. I've said it before and I still feel it, trading Rip, Tayshaun or any of our young rotation is shortsighted.


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## ATLien

anyone heard a rumor involving Josh Smith and Prince? read it on realgm so its probably false.


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## Ruff Draft

It's just a RealGM rumor. Maybe, maybe not. Probably not.


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## dsouljah9

I'm hearing A.I is/was being offered for Chauncey Billups...


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## ChrisWoj

Lets just file that under "things we never want to happen."


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## dsouljah9

^Hey,he can still play and is an expiring contract...


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