# Another Ridiculous Odom Trade Rumor (Merged)



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Ric Bucher proposed the idea. What do you think?

He also mentioned Hedo, and Danny Granger.

This is from an ESPN insider article, http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=5335682


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

TJ Ford and Danny Granger before two guards.


----------



## James Worthy (Jun 22, 2010)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

No thank you! To both proposed trades.


----------



## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

Blazers could have signed Odom in the offseason and didn't even attempt to. What makes you think they would want him now?


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

i think rick bucher is dumb then. why would indiana give up granger for odom? bayless and andre? what for? we already have an old pg, who can at least shoot unlike andre miller. why would we even want him and his long contract anyways?

seriously, an average fan like me who knows jack **** probably knows more than those espn people do.


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



sMaK said:


> Blazers could have signed Odom in the offseason and didn't even attempt to. What makes you think they would want him now?


They made a run at Odom last year, not sure what you're talking about. 

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/07/blazers-enter-the-lamar-odom-sweepstakes/


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

LOL, it is clearly the off-season, when basketball writers have nothing to write about, so they make **** up.

Odom is not going anywhere.

Gasol is not going anywhere.

Bryant is not going anywhere.

Bynum is not going anywhere.

Artest is not going anywhere.

Fisher is not going anywhere.

All the free agents will scatter to the winds, and when all the dust is settled, in June the Lakers will be holding aloft yet another championship trophy.

You heard it here first. Bank it.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

The Lakers can get what they need with their MLE


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

hell no

we need LO on this team period.


----------



## James Worthy (Jun 22, 2010)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



Ron said:


> LOL, it is clearly the off-season, when basketball writers have nothing to write about, so they make **** up.
> 
> Odom is not going anywhere.
> 
> ...


^
This man speaks truth.


----------



## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

Odom is a space cadet, but he still gives matchup problems to every team in the league. Why would you trade him, when you can solve your PG troubles through free agency.

Also why the hell would you want Andre Miller, he can't shoot and needs the ball to be effective.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

I like Bayless but we need to get a decent big in return if we trade Odom.


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*

the all knowing sam smith says the lakers are considering trading Odom and Bynum for Bosh and Jarrett Jack. lmao.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

*Rumor: L.A. to offer Bynum, Odom for Bosh, Jack*



> Rumor: On July 1st the Los Angeles Lakers will offer Andrew Bynum & Lamar Odom to the Toronto Raptors for Chris Bosh & Jarrett Jack. NBA.com


Source


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: Rumor: L.A. to offer Bynum, Odom for Bosh, Jack*

I'm not really sure what to think on this deal. If Bynum was healthy during the playoffs this would never even be a thought, but since he can never stay healthy, I'd may take a chance on this, especially since Odom was bad these past playoffs besides the PHX series.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Rumor: L.A. to offer Bynum, Odom for Bosh, Jack*

I don't know about this.


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Rumor: L.A. to offer Bynum, Odom for Bosh, Jack*

http://www.basketballforum.com/6307985-post13.html


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Correct me if I am wrong, but if Bosh is involved in a S&T doesn't he have to be traded alone? Or you have to wait until August or is it December?


----------



## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

Cris said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but if Bosh is involved in a S&T doesn't he have to be traded alone? Or you have to wait until August or is it December?


I don't think so because didn't we get Chris Mihm in a S&T packaged with Chucky Atkins and Jumaine Jones?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Not sure about this.. Id be more comfortable with it if we picked up another banger. Possibly Haywood??


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Laker Freak said:


> I don't think so because didn't we get Chris Mihm in a S&T packaged with Chucky Atkins and Jumaine Jones?


Yes, that was in August however. I am pretty sure that's when you're allowed to do that.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/trade_040806.html

At least that's what I have always heard and assumed.


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

*Re: Rumor: L.A. to offer Bynum, Odom for Bosh, Jack*



Eternal said:


> Source


if mitch does that then he needs to be fired

that trade would make the team WORSE


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

I checked out the tweet page and the home web page and seriously guys I can put together such a combo myself and would you believe whatever I tweeted?

Who is the actual source?

These guys are intermixing rumors (read: make **** up) with actual wire stories to make it seem real.

It's bull****. And so is the proposed deal. What a ****ing joke.

LMAO.

:laugh:

:lol:


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

this just in

Odom will be traded for LeBron James

source: Dan Gilbert


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

MojoPin said:


> this just in
> 
> Odom will be traded for LeBron James
> 
> source: Dan Gilbert




Odom for Bryant.

Source: Tommy Heinsohn.

Oh, wait.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Ron said:


> I checked out the tweet page and the home web page and seriously guys I can put together such a combo myself and would you believe whatever I tweeted?
> 
> Who is the actual source?
> 
> ...


It's bad in the sense of assuming Bynum will ever be healthy for us come playoff time. Otherwise it's very interesting.



Post from another forum said:


> Gives us a reliable center (Gasol, full-time), a reliable power forward (Bosh) and a defensive-minded point guard...hits on all cylinders. All willing passers, all versatile triangle players...all healthy (non-Bynum), all consistent (non-Odom).
> 
> Odom was absolutely pathetic against the Thunder, and he didn't play well against Boston. Very good defensive teams, especially interior defense, shut him out. Lamar will play good against Phoenix and Utah because Amare and Boozer are poor defenders, but when he's averaging under 8 PPG and under 7 RPG against the Thunder and the Celtics in the playoffs, there's a problem. He's the most inconsistent player on the Lakers...always in foul trouble, always getting dominated either in pick and roll situations (Nash kills him) or by hard-working, hustling bigs (Glen Davis comes to mind).
> 
> If Andrew wasn't always hurt, I wouldn't...but a player that gives us 15-20 minutes when we need him the most, plus either playing injured or not playing at all, and a player that is inconsistent and is usually always in foul trouble?


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Eternal said:


> It's bad in the sense of assuming Bynum will ever be healthy for us come playoff time. Otherwise it's very interesting.
> 
> Gives us a reliable center (Gasol, full-time), a reliable power forward (Bosh) and a defensive-minded point guard...hits on all cylinders. All willing passers, all versatile triangle players...all healthy (non-Bynum), all consistent (non-Odom).
> 
> ...


You totally stole this post from RD on TLN.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Basel said:


> You totally stole this post from RD on TLN.


Apparently quote tag is broke. =(

EDIT: Fixed! Forgot "="

This trade also interests me in terms of not allowing Bosh to go to Miami. Do not want to see Lebron,Wade, and Bosh all on same team.


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Basel said:


> You totally stole this post from RD on TLN.


Is there a website and/or blog on the internet you don't stalk?


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Cris said:


> Is there a website and/or blog on the internet you don't stalk?


:laugh:


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Cris said:


> Is there a website and/or blog on the internet you don't stalk?


:laugh:

I post with him on TLN. That's the only other basketball forum I post at, and that's a huge topic of discussion there, so I noticed the post.


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

Eternal said:


> Apparently quote tag is broke. =(
> 
> EDIT: Fixed! Forgot "="
> 
> This trade also interests me in terms of not allowing Bosh to go to Miami. Do not want to see Lebron,Wade, and Bosh all on same team.


Why not? Miami wouldnt be able to sign anyone else. 

from what ive read, all they would have is:
Chalmers
Wade
LeBron
Bosh
Beasley

Wade and LeBron wouldnt be a good combo unless theyre allowed to play with two basketballs. Plus the egos on that team would be explosive - I dont even think Phil could handle it.


----------



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



Ron said:


> LOL, it is clearly the off-season, when basketball writers have nothing to write about, so they make **** up.
> 
> Odom is not going anywhere.
> 
> ...


That bank may need a bailout. It seems Fish is being offered only the vet's min. And he want's around $5 million. 

Could get messy...


----------



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



LA68 said:


> That bank may need a bailout. It seems Fish is being offered only the vet's min. And he want's around $5 million.
> 
> Could get messy...


The possibility of Fisher leaving brings tears of happiness to my eyes. It'll be great to have a PG that doesn't have less lateral quickness than an old Andre Miller.

Anyway that Portland thing is stupid. I would definitely take Granger for Odom, no idea why Indy would be dumb enough to do that trade. Granger plays great defense and has great range which would fit well with the Lakers. But then again, Bird did do the Al Harrington, Šarūnas Jasikevičius, and Josh Powell, Jackson was swapped for Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, Ike Diogu, and Keith McLeod deal.

Also keep in mind that the Pacers just drafted Paul George, who plays the same position and does similar things to Granger.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



Kenneth said:


> The possibility of Fisher leaving brings tears of happiness to my eyes.


Yeah.

I am sure that you realize that without Fisher in game 3 and hitting that huge three in game 7 the Celtics would be the champions now, don't you?

You can Fisher-hate only up to a certain point, IMO. After that, its gets to be an obsession.


----------



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



Ron said:


> Yeah.
> 
> I am sure that you realize that without Fisher in game 3 and hitting that huge three in game 7 the Celtics would be the champions now, don't you?
> 
> You can Fisher-hate only up to a certain point, IMO. After that, its gets to be an obsession.


You do realize that Fisher's FG% was 42% against Boston don't you? I don't know why people keep bringing up a few shots he makes. He jacks up a lot of shots for a bad shooter and eventually they go down, it's nothing to be proud about. Lakers almost got knocked out last year in the playoffs by a Rocket team with barely any talent because Fisher was so bad against a young Brooks that was barely even a starter at the time.

Or the fact that Fisher's PER rating of 9.3 makes him the worst starting PG in the league barring massive injuries to other teams, hell it's worse than most backup PGs. That's statistic is being generous to Fisher's game because it ignores his horrible defense.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Cris said:


> Is there a website and/or blog on the internet you don't stalk?


:lol:


----------



## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



Kenneth said:


> You do realize that Fisher's FG% was 42% against Boston don't you? I don't know why people keep bringing up a few shots he makes.


Because those shots are what win championships.

Just FYI, Fish had the 4th lowest usage %, of all guards in the league and the 8th best turnover ratio. We dont need an all star PG.

No one thinks Fisher is the best PG, but he is good for this team. (At least in the post season.)


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Kenneth said:


> You do realize that Fisher's FG% was 42% against Boston don't you? I don't know why people keep bringing up a few shots he makes. He jacks up a lot of shots for a bad shooter and eventually they go down, it's nothing to be proud about.


Really?

Kobe's shooting percentage for the series was 40.5%, and he won the MVP.

Are you now saying that Fisher deserved the MVP? :grinning: :yes: :laugh: :razz:


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



LA68 said:


> That bank may need a bailout. It seems Fish is being offered only the vet's min. And he want's around $5 million.
> 
> Could get messy...


I had to dig on the 'Net to find this...please post your sources, thanks.

*Lakers have some decisions to make*

It's a good read.

Here is a reference for the current salaries and players the Lakers are committed to:

*Lakers' Salaries 2010-2011*


----------



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Ron said:


> Really?
> 
> Kobe's shooting percentage for the series was 40.5%, and he won the MVP.
> 
> Are you now saying that Fisher deserved the MVP? :grinning: :yes: :laugh: :razz:


Do you understand what PER is or what it measures? Do you understand that Fisher had the worst PER in the NBA among PG's last year in the regular season. 

Or how bad a player it makes Fisher when the only thing PER doesn't measure well is man to man defense, which Fisher is near the bottom of the league at.


----------



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Odom for Jerryd Bayless and Andre Miller?*



elcap15 said:


> Because those shots are what win championships.
> 
> Just FYI, Fish had the 4th lowest usage %, of all guards in the league and the 8th best turnover ratio. We dont need an all star PG.
> 
> No one thinks Fisher is the best PG, but he is good for this team. (At least in the post season.)


Who said anything about an allstar PG? Are you claiming that you don't think Fisher's defense isn't going to hurt the Lakers chances of winning a title?
Kobe is getting older and part of the reason why he shot poorly in the finals is because he was fatigued from guarding Rondo. Fisher's lack of ability to stay in front of PG is also a big reason why Bynum gets into foul trouble because he has to bail out Fisher for just standing there when the opposing PG just walks by him to the rim.


----------



## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Ive said it many times, I hope the Lakers get a MLE level PG this offseason. I dont really want Fisher starting next year, but he is a great guy to have in the locker room and in the game in crunch time.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Kenneth said:


> Do you understand what PER is or what it measures? Do you understand that Fisher had the worst PER in the NBA among PG's last year in the regular season.
> 
> Or how bad a player it makes Fisher when the only thing PER doesn't measure well is man to man defense, which Fisher is near the bottom of the league at.


I looked it up.

This is a made-up stat by one sportswriter. There is no peer review of PER by anyone that I can see, and it is apparently filled with flaws, as far as statistical analysis goes.

I have a B.A. in Mathematics with four statistics classes under my belt. In order to be universally accepted as factual, peer review MUST take place, as it must in any discipline. I can't find any. If you can, please link to it in this thread and I will study it.

In the meanwhile, I looked at the formulas. He has invoked several constants, including .5, 2/3, 3, 1, and 15, among others. What is the justification for these constants? Are they real-world constants?

Kenneth, do you even know what I am asking you? If you have a background in Mathematics, you should.

But I doubt it.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)




----------



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I have a degree is statistics, it was my major. I've forgotten more about multivariate statistics and data mining that you ever pretended to know. 

You're math background apparently prevents you from understanding that Fisher's 49.9 True shooting is lower than Jordan Farmar's 53.5 ts% and Shannon Brown's 51.7 ts%

So despite the Lakers' bad point guard rotation, Fisher was still our worse shooter of all our PGs. But maybe you're going to bring up his leadership again, because under all statistical measures, Fisher is ****.

As for peer reviewed journals for mathematics, they are typically more concerned about number theory, topology, cryptology, etc and rarely if ever go into the area of applied statistics. The few evaluation on sports statistics out there is related baseball but that's mostly because of the interest there, lack of peer reviewed evaluation does nothing to prove your point. If you actually ever seen a peer reviewed journal for math you would be aware of that.

PER isn't all encompassing but it's a solid effort at standard measure of a player's effectiveness. Even if you ignore it, there's true shooting percentage, which is a pretty accurate gauge of shooting effectiveness. With that, Fisher is crap. Combined with the fact that he is a bad defender, that makes him a bad player period at this point. Passing wise, he was unable to get an entry pass into Gasol throughout the finals without the ball being tipped around and getting stolen.

His supposed mo is shooting and he's a bad shooter.
H


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

My degree is a double-major in Economics and Philosophy, and I'll use that to make the statement that both of you are gay and need to cut it out.

Exeunt, stage left.

P.S. I also have a PHD. No, not a Ph.D.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Kenneth said:


> I have a degree is statistics, it was my major. I've forgotten more about multivariate statistics and data mining that you ever pretended to know.


Non-sequitor, as I never pretended to know about multivariate statistics and/or data mining. 



> You're math background apparently prevents you from understanding that Fisher's 49.9 True shooting is lower than Jordan Farmar's 53.5 ts% and Shannon Brown's 51.7 ts%


Kenneth, are you really going to assert that there is any material difference between 49.9% and 53.5% and 51.7%? Please.



> So despite the Lakers' bad point guard rotation, Fisher was still our worse shooter of all our PGs. But maybe you're going to bring up his leadership again, because under all statistical measures, Fisher is ****.


You most certainly cannot ignore the intangibles he brings to the game. If you focus solely of statistical measures, we might as well play the games with robots. I see you still have not addressed his game 3 heroics and his game-changing three in game 7.



> As for peer reviewed journals for mathematics, they are typically more concerned about number theory, topology, cryptology, etc and rarely if ever go into the area of applied statistics. The few evaluation on sports statistics out there is related baseball but that's mostly because of the interest there, lack of peer reviewed evaluation does nothing to prove your point. If you actually ever seen a peer reviewed journal for math you would be aware of that.


I am not going to "pretend" to know in detail the various journals and peer-reviewers out there, but a simple google search in regard to this area provided almost 16 million results. There is most certainly peer review for statistical analysis available for anyone who requests it.

It would seem to me for a statistical degree holder such as yourself that you would want to see something as arcane as "PER" would be confirmed and verified before you go spouting off that it is the "end-all, be-all" to determine player efficiency.

Look at the formulas yourself (they are available on Wikipedia). There is a lot of assumption going on there, with constants that have not been explained as to being tested in the real world. I cannot say with any degree of confidence that the formulas have a basis in reality; indeed, I believe the author of these formulas cobbled them together from players stats and bootstrapped up from there, tweaking them as a matter of bias.

In simple lay-terms, I think Hollinger is full of ****.



> PER isn't all encompassing but it's a solid effort at standard measure of a player's effectiveness. Even if you ignore it, there's true shooting percentage, which is a pretty accurate gauge of shooting effectiveness.


I disagree with this, and yes I ignore it, because there is no scientific basis for it. As I said above, the difference between Fisher's shooting percentage and the other guards on the team is negligible (oh wait, they are not on the team anymore).



> With that, Fisher is crap. Combined with the fact that he is a bad defender, that makes him a bad player period at this point. Passing wise, he was unable to get an entry pass into Gasol throughout the finals without the ball being tipped around and getting stolen.
> 
> His supposed mo is shooting and he's a bad shooter.
> H


I am not going to change your opinion, and you are not going to change mine. I believe Fisher has tremendous value to this team. As I said before, I don't disagree with some of your assertions; I too have become frustrated with his play during the season. But there is no denying that Fish came through in the clutch, and his play in game 3 saved the championship for the Lakers.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> My degree is a double-major in Economics and Philosophy, and I'll use that to make the statement that both of you are gay and need to cut it out.
> 
> Exeunt, stage left.
> 
> P.S. I also have a PHD. No, not a Ph.D.


Well, its an honest discussion and that is what forum boards are all about. The great thing about forum boards is that you don't have to read them if you don't want to.

Your statement about us both being gay is a pretty immature one. I'm going to let it go for instructive purposes; please keep your comments focused on topic in the future.


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Ron said:


> Your statement about us both being gay is a pretty immature one. I'm going to let it go for instructive purposes;* please keep your comments focused on topic in the future*.


 ????

Well to be fair, this was a thread about trade rumors involving Odom and some how it turned into an off-topic debate about Fisher. At this point it is open season for any post


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

The One said:


> ????
> 
> Well to be fair, this was a thread about trade rumors involving Odom and some how it turned into an off-topic debate about Fisher. At this point it is open season for any post


True, but not for calling posters gay.

Players are fair game, posters are not. I guess I should have made myself more clear.


----------



## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

If you believe Kupchak, a sign-and-trade is unlikely to involve Andrew Bynum or Lamar Odom, two names that have been thrown around in trade scenarios, because the GM said Friday he doesn't expect any "major changes to the team."

When asked to clarify, Kupchak said, "I think our core group would be considered a major component."

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5350972


----------

