# Penny Hardaway Vs. Kobe Bryant



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

*Career Best Averages*- Regular Season

FG%
-----
*Penny- .513%*
Kobe- .469%

3pt.%
-----
Penny- .349%
*Kobe- .375%*

FT%
-----
Penny- .820%
*Kobe- .853%*

RPG
-----
Penny- 5.80
*Kobe- 6.30*

APG
-----
*Penny- 7.2*
Kobe- 5.5

SPG
-----
*Penny- 2.32*
Kobe- 1.68

BPG
-----
Penny- 0.79
*Kobe- 1.00*

PPG
-----
Penny- 21.7
*Kobe- 28.5*


*Career Averages*- Playoffs

FG%
-----
*Penny- .459%*
Kobe- .441%

3pt.%
-----
*Penny- .383%*
Kobe- .333%

FT%
-----
Penny- .743%
*Kobe- .778*

RPG
-----
Penny- 4.60
*Kobe- 4.80*

APG
-----
*Penny- 6.4*
Kobe- 4.1

SPG
-----
*Penny- 1.85*
Kobe- 1.24

BPG
-----
Penny- .78
*Kobe- .95*

PPG
-----
*Penny- 21.5*
Kobe- 20.8


It's always fun to compare!


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Penny was a better creator but Kobe is a better scorer.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Penny Hardaway *
> Penny was a better creator but Kobe is a better scorer.


AGREE.


----------



## TO4LIFE (Jun 13, 2002)

Kobe is WAY better than Penny
all I gotta say is wait till Shaq retires!!


----------



## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> all I gotta say is wait till Shaq retires!!


Why so Kobe can SUPER SUCK?!?!:laugh:


----------



## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

Kobe is so overrated! :yes: 

If there was any other star on there with Shaq they would win a championship.



Shaq+Kobe=championship 

Shaq+A.I.=championship

Shaq+Pierce= championship



What is the common denominator here?


----------



## Shaqs big toe (May 21, 2002)

Don't forget that people were hailing Penny as a top 5 player in the league when he played alongside Shaq as well.

Kobe's true test will come only after he ceases leaning on a rather big shoulder... and that wont happen until the big fella retires


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by *Malakian *
> Kobe is so overrated! :yes:
> 
> If there was any other star on there with Shaq they would win a championship.
> ...


anyone who watched the sa series could have easily come to the conclusion that kobe+duncan=championship.  

shaq's the most dominant player in the game. but he's got a pretty good situation in la also.

maybe we should give rings to all the players that could have possibly won a championship under the proper circumstances. why don't we start loading the hall of fame with all the players that could have accomplished much more if just given the opportunity.  

it sounds like shaq can't lose, and kobe can't win. if la loses, it's because kobe couldn't get it done, and many other players could have. if la wins, it's all because of shaq, and kobe's still replaceable. so, all those times that kobe does the things necessary for la to win, all the times he rises to the occassion, those are irrelevant, because to some, he'll get no credit anyway.

btw, penny was a great player. truly could have had a hall of fame career. had all the tools to be great (and was great for a short span). arguably the best guard in the league for a short period ('95 before jordan came back - also started strong in '96 when shaq was out). at his best, imo, he still falls short of the player kobe is today, overall. and shaq's certainly better off with kobe next to him, a guy with the killer instinct to close out games, to take over. penny didn't have kobe's head, or his heart.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Kobe and Duncan would probably win a championship, but Shaq and Duncan might never lose a game.......


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by *kflo *
> 
> 
> anyone who watched the sa series could have easily come to the conclusion that kobe+duncan=championship.
> ...


Good post I agree with you completely


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> Kobe and Duncan would probably win a championship, but Shaq and Duncan might never lose a game.......


or, they might lose more than the lakers do now. they may never lose a game, or shaq may be better off with kobe.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *kflo *
> 
> 
> or, they might lose more than the lakers do now. they may never lose a game, or shaq may be better off with kobe.


Yeah, and Kobe and Duncan may lose more than the Spurs do now..... Maybe.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Penny and Shaq could have built an amazing dynasty. Nick Anderson (when he could still shoot), Dennis Scott, Horace Grant... Penny and SHAQ?? They actually handled Jordan in his comeback year in 95, albeit he wasn't at the top of his game, in Penny's second season in the league and Shaq's third. If they had stayed together, although they wouldn't have had much money available for anyone else, it easily could have been the Lakers story in Orlando. Darrell Armstrong would have emerged and probably would have made allowances in his contract to help the team. Horace Grant and Nick Anderson could have been there too. 

Penny would start at SF but play a Pippen-like ball controlling role, with Darrell Armstrong used more for penetration-kicks or outside shooting. 

Armstrong-Anderson-Penny-Grant-Shaq

Please. Tell me that's not a way better team than

Fisher-Kobe-Fox-Walker-Shaq

Orlando could have had it all. It's weird that I've always been an Orlando fan, third place in the teams that I root for after the Bulls and the Sixers....


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Kobe is the better overall because of his toughness mentally. Kobe tended to be more Jordan-like with his excellent mid-range game. While Penny often doesn't use it but instead drawing double teams on the drive to look for his teammates. But don't get me wrong, Penny doesn't have a consistent on-the-move jump shot while I think Kobe is mastered at that.

While I think Penny has the clear edge in ball handling because he was a full-time ball handler not like Kobe has a smaller guy teaming up with him to dribble against a SG as opposed to Penny dribbled against the true pgs full time.

Penny was a much smarter player and he knows how to defer to Shaq at such a young age. He often told Shaq where the ball is supposed to go when Shaq was double teamed. 

Kobe is a much better scorer at least his mindset thinks shoot then second. Kobe is a much harder worker that always hard off on his game and bring the best out of his capability.

I don't know if Kobe is far more clutch than Penny because when Shaq was injured for some 26 games in 95-96. I recalled Penny hit 5 game winning shots and a few buzzer beaters in the absence of Shaq.

I think Penny of 95-96 can take Kobe out of the game because Penny was tricky with the ball and so. But Kobe will surely go right at Penny and draw some fouls.

I like Penny but Kobe is a bit better as an individual player imo.


----------



## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

Now, that was a truly unbiased account of the strengths and weaknesses of both players!

Penny is one of the smartest players I have ever seen - offensively. His split second decision making for the team's best advantage is & was quite wonderful to observe.

Kobe has more of a scorer's mentality, while Penny has more of a playmaker's mentality. Kobe tries harder on defense, but the difference there isn't considerable, IMHO.


----------



## hunterb14 (Jun 12, 2002)

It semms like every thread that has Kobe mentioned becomes a bash Kobe page.

I belive any team with Shaq would be awesome. Penny would still be a top 10 player in the league if he hadnt have gotten injured and injured and injured again.

Same goes for Grant Hill

And yes i agree with John. Penny is a better creator while Kobe is a better scorer


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Penny Hardaway was a very good player for many years but KOBE is one of the all time greats. PENNY'S MAIN PROBLEM WAS PROBABLY NOT HIS IT WAS HIS COACH HE SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN MADE A POINT GUARD THATS WHY HE WAS INJURED TRYING TO CHASE ALL THOSE SMALL GUARDS AROUND RUINED HIS KNEE'S, he should have been a shooting guard or point small forward but the pg position totally shot his knee's he was a great athlete early in his career but the wear and tear of a bigger player chasing small guards just wore his body down, Penny's stats are only COMPARABLE TO KOBE'S BECAUSE KOBE CAME IN STRAIGHT FROM HIGHSCHOOL AND DIDN'T GET THE SAME PLAYING TIME AND BECAUSE HE WAS TOO INEXPERIENCED , trying putting those stats back up KC in 2 years they'll make Penny look ridiculous compared to Kobe. 

KC just seems to enjoy antagonizing Laker fans and pandering to all those pseudo come lately Kings fans, Everyone that knows ball knows Penny's no comparison to Kobe,hell outside of here no ones made that comparison it's Jordan not Penny.

And too all those people who believe You could insert all those other players to play with Shaq and win titles how about Spud Webb playing with the Celtics of the 80's instead of DJ, how about Tom Chambers taking Worthy's place on the showtime Lakers they'd probably still win the title, or how about Drexler playing with Jordan instead of Pippen they surely would've won 6 titles regardless of Pippens contributions, Chris Webber and Duncan surely they would have won the title back in 99 instead of David Robinson, yeah sounds pretty ridiculous,

To say that Shaq and Iverson equal CHAMPIONSHIP EXPOSES somone's naivety , SHAQ HASSLE'S WITH KOBE ABOUT SHOTS HOW IN THE HELL WOULD ANYONE ELSE GET A SHOT WITH IVERSON ON THE LAKERS, I GUESS AND IVERSON AND FISHER BACK COURT WORKS REAL WELL WHEN THEY POST UP BOTH GUARDS ALL DAY, Penny and Shaq had several chances to get a ring but didn't why because Penny choked away too many games at the end when it mattered most,got killed by Drexler in the finals, never would have happened to Kobe in his prime now, Paul Pierce has no Idea how to play with a dominant center he's a scorer Kobe's made himself into a playmaker as well as a scorer ,Pierce would never be able to penetrate and dish to the Diesel like Kobe does,goes to the basket too off balance to do that , 

Now Tmac possibly could win a title but then again he messes up more late game situations so you'd probably have to go to Shaq in the clutch which probably isn't a good idea for a 50% foul shooter.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

One other thing do you know why creators create and not score themselves because they can't score as well , Kareem shot the skyhook because he could ,he could have been one of the alltime great passing bigmen but why when you can score, ala Bill Walton, If Walton had a sky hook he wouldn't have been the best passing big man., Magic passed because he could do that better than he could score ,same with JKidd he's a much better passer than shooter, Andre Miller is a much better passer than creating his own shot conversly Marbury has better scoring ability than passiong ability, same for Iverson who's a better scorer than he is a passer, Now Penny could score but was a better playmaker ,Kobe is just as creative as Penny but he has a better Knack for scoring when he wants to pass he could get 10 assists but he scores easier because of his athleticim, Penny isn't as good at scoring thus he had better assist numbers than Kobe but that doesn't make him a better creator it just makes him a more FREQUENT CREATOR. 

Now Larry Bird could pass as well as Magic but his numbers for assists were never as good as Magics why Bird could score better than Magic ,so Magic resorted to passing to make himself most effective, He was a more FREQUENT passer than Bird not neccesarily a better passer than Bird.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Please tell me we aren't implying that Penny Hardaway is a better player than Kobe Bryant.


----------



## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

*This thread's got me thinking...*

How good would a team with Shaq, Kobe, AND Penny be? I know Penny's not what he used to be because injuries have slowed him down, but wouldn't he be a perfect fit for the triangle? Unfortunately I was too young to remember much from the Penny and Shaq days in Orlando, but I know that they were my favorite team at the time. If the Lakers could somehow trade for Penny, maybe using George and Horry or something, they could have this lineup:

1- Penny
2- Rush
3- Kobe
4- anybody, it really doesn't matter
5- Shaq

Both Penny and Kobe are capable of playing the role of distributer in the triangle. Kareem could just stand outside and shoot threes, and will hopefully be able to do a lot more. And then of course you've got Shaq.


----------



## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*the perfect rebuttal*



> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> Kobe is so overrated! :yes:
> 
> If there was any other star on there with Shaq they would win a championship.
> ...


Only an *Nope!* compares players in this manner and here's why:

Kobe + Shaq = Championship

Kobe + Duncan = Championship

Kobe + Tmac = Championship

*Not acceptable here - Community Moderator - John* 
:grinning:


----------



## SikHandlez24 (Jun 8, 2002)

Man that's a scary backcourt: Kobe + Tracy!!!


----------



## SS_Solid_Snake (Jul 15, 2002)

> Penny's stats are only COMPARABLE TO KOBE'S BECAUSE KOBE CAME IN STRAIGHT FROM HIGHSCHOOL AND DIDN'T GET THE SAME PLAYING TIME AND BECAUSE HE WAS TOO INEXPERIENCED


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those stats were from career best seasons, not career averages.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: the perfect rebuttal*



> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Only an idiot compares players in this manner and here's why:
> ...


Don't worry, Malakian is one of the biggest Laker haters on this site, no he doesn't think before he posts.

And he's obviously just jealous that Kobe isn't on his team:yes:  .


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Now Penny could score but was a better playmaker ,Kobe is just as creative as Penny but he has a better Knack for scoring when he wants to pass he could get 10 assists but he scores easier because of his athleticim, Penny isn't as good at scoring thus he had better assist numbers than Kobe but that doesn't make him a better creator it just makes him a more FREQUENT CREATOR.


I dunno how old you are, not disrespect here by any means. If you think Penny Hardaway couldnt score the way Kobe can now I think you didnt get to watch Penny played in his prime.

By meaning a better creator I am not referring to numbers. Please watch how LA offense struggles when Shaq is on the bench. Kobe is a upgrade version of Spewell of the Knicks. He does creat double teams when he is ON. But in no way he is capable of running the offense smooth by himself.

You may get the "distributor" and "creator" mixed up. Shaq is the LA creator, by having him on the floor, every LA players get good shots, yes that is including Kobe.

but back then, Shaq was like a kobe of now, a guy can put up 30 a game when is asked but he wasnt the creator, or should I say leader of the team, it was Penny when he was in games everyone got good shots because he knows how to use teammates to a maxium.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

phil jackson on kobe as a playmaker:

"Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times. So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now."

"I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it. I never asked Michael to be a playmaker. That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."


----------



## DP (Jun 7, 2002)

_**Crickets Chirping**_


----------



## dyle (Jul 25, 2002)

First of all, I was a big Penny fan, still am.

NOw to honsestly answer the question, I think Kobe is the better player just because of his attitude and killer instinct. Kobe knows he's good and he also knows that he could be the best basketball player in the world. He knows his strengths and uses them to their full potential. 

Penny, on the other hand, although athletic, made beatiful basketball plays. Yes, he had the occasional "in-your-face" jams but the main thing that made me like Penny's game is his basketball IQ and skills. He had great instincts and was always one step ahead of everybody. 

Penny at his prime didn't really rely that much on his athleticism. Of course, it helped him but his game didn't completely depend on it. I just think KObe relies on his athleticism too much. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but that's why I don't really appreciate him as much as Penny.

Just a thought for everyone, give Kobe a couple of knee injuries like Penny had. Do you think he would still be as effective as Penny is in this point of his career?


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dyle</b>!
> First of all, I was a big Penny fan, still am.
> 
> NOw to honsestly answer the question, I think Kobe is the better player just because of his attitude and killer instinct. Kobe knows he's good and he also knows that he could be the best basketball player in the world. He knows his strengths and uses them to their full potential.
> ...


Agreed, people say Kobe is the most skilled player in the game but Penny was way way more skillful then Kobe that he wants to be.


----------



## dyle (Jul 25, 2002)

> btw, penny was a great player. truly could have had a hall of fame career. had all the tools to be great (and was great for a short span). arguably the best guard in the league for a short period ('95 before jordan came back - also started strong in '96 when shaq was out). at his best, imo, he still falls short of the player kobe is today, overall. and shaq's certainly better off with kobe next to him, a guy with the killer instinct to close out games, to take over. penny didn't have kobe's head, or his heart.



I agree with you here. Kobe has a better attitude and handles pressure from expectations really well. 

HOwever, I wouldn't really say that Penny doens't have as much heart as Kobe. Remember the 2000 playoffs? Penny played his heart out in those games, and on 1 leg too because he injured his knee in the san antonio series. He even managed to get a triple double in one of those games, i believe and held his own against kobe and the lakers. And judging from past performances, Penny has always raised it on another level in important games. Without checking, I would say that his averages always go up during the playoffs (I could be wrong, though because I'm too lazy to check this out). Penny isn't as strong willed as Kobe is. I think he's just too emotional for someone who was supposed to be a franchise player. But I wouldn't doubt his heart, though....


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dyle</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right, Penny steps up in big games. For in his prime, the guy was just 23 years old in his second year. If it wasnt for his injuries, Penny Hardaway is the best guard right now (in his prime).


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

NOW DP I MAYBE OLDER THAN YOU and yes I've watched Penny since back in his Memphis State days . First off Penny was a Point Guard ,Kobe doesn't play pg there's a big distinction there,but more on that later , Please define what YOU MEAN by creator so we can debate your definition so I don't misunderstand what you mean, You call Kobe an upgraded SPREWELL , HOW MUCH NBA BALL HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING, Kobe's so much more of a player but I think you get that point 

Now I totally disagree with your point on SHAQ being the LAKER CREATOR EVEN FOR KOBE, fact is when Shaq has the ball he kicks it out to 3 pt shooters FISHER HORRY AND FOX since that isn't the strength of Kobe's game would do no good to rotate the ball back to Kobe which he rarely does, Shaq gets those guys open looks and on rare occasions sets up Kobe for the three. 

Now the difference between A CREATOR AND A DISTIBUTOR IS THIS a distibutor does this, he passes the ball around the court insuring others touch it or he moves the ball up court, a CREATOR ,creates open looks or easier opportunities for others to SCORE than they could create for themselves, Now Kobe creates much more in that offense than Shaq does. Shaq only creates when pressed KOBE creates or often to get others going in the offense What was the mantra Phil said to the LAKERS when facing the BLAZERS in the WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS ,"forget about Shaq move the ball around " now why would he say that to the team creator because SHAQ only creates out of neccessity and was making bad passes when doubled by the longer armed BLAZERS, he would never say forget about Kobe because Kobe is the creator who makes everyone's job easier mostly Shaqs, When Kobe penetrates and draws the defense he kicks it to SHAQ for many Dunks he doesn't always penetrate to score but mostly to pass , that's what Phil's ingrained in him, Now for Shaq to be the creator he would have to create out of DESIGN NOT BY FORCEd DOUBLE TEAMING, when he dips he shoulder and goes to the basket he always goes there with the intent to score but sometimes is forced to pass , creators pass by DESIGN NOT NECCESITY, so therfore KOBE is the teams PRIMARY CREATOR AND SHAQ THE PRIMARY SCORER.

what does Shaq do for Kobe , he creates a focus away from Kobe defensively allowing Kobe to have man coverage most of the time to beat his man and score or pass without having to face constant double an triple teaming. Against the Blazers Kobe penetrated and dished to Horry for the game winner thats what a creator does. Shaq also provides a pressure release from Kobe of all of the scoring burden. 

Now back to Penny on could he score as much as Kobe I seriously doubt it but that's a hard point to prove because they played in different systems. Penny had alot of huge scoring games but wasn't the scorer Kobe is. Now Penny on his team was the PG so he wasn't asked to fill a bigtime scoring role, THEY had NICK ANDERSON,DENNIS SCOTT AND HO GRANT who could score pretty well at that time. So Penny was asked to create and distribute the ball more. Kobe has to pick up more of a scoring role on the lakers because FISHER, HORRY AND FOX aren't that big of scorers so Kobe has to fulfill a much bigger scoring role. SOME NITES KOBE HAS TO SCORE 40 OR 50 POINTS WHEN THOSE THREE BRING NEXT TO NOTHING TO THE TABLE, He and Shaq have to single handledly beat teams sometime. 

Now Penny was much more like a PIPPEN type player and Kobe more of a JORDAN for reasons of ability to score, KOBE could drop 50 on you Penny really couldn't have those types of games because that wasn't his strength, Now Kobe regularly has Pippen like games especially in the playoffs KOBE COULD SWITCH BETWEEN MODES PENNY COULDN"T.

On why the Lakers struggle without Shaq ,Because Kobe has to transform back to the primary scorer role and the Lakers have no one to fill the alternate scoring role as well as the creator role. In Orlando without Shaq Penny didn't have to really change his role when Shaq was out the other players around him were more capable of stepping up the their scoring so Penny could really Score a little more but not have that burden solely. Kobe doesn't have that kind of help in LA when Shaq is out, when those other guys are hitting when Shaq's out they win when they don't they lose ,the support players individually are woefully inconsistent. Similar to what Tmac faces .500 team when the role players are hitting but Losses when they're not. Penny had much more consistent role players. Including a much younger BRIAN SHAW.


----------



## DP (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> NOW DP I MAYBE OLDER THAN YOU



HUH ?


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DP</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> HUH ?


He saw "community moderator" He assumed it was you who he was repling to.

lol.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

My Bad DP I'm talking BOUT JOHN

WHAT YOU GOT FOR ME JOHN :yes: 

Just kidding man You tried to insult me so bring it on . On the fun tip man.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> My Bad DP I'm talking BOUT JOHN
> 
> WHAT YOU GOT FOR ME JOHN :yes:
> ...


hehhe, I see what you are saying, but it's 1:34 at night here, I don want to do alot of posting.

 

But good post.


----------



## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

Jazzy1 great post.You always get it right on the mark.I say your a smart basketball fan who knows what your talking about especially when it comes to kobe.


----------



## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

*this thread's made me like Penny again*

After Shaq left the Magic I didn't really like them as much anymore, and then Penny left and I didn't like them at all, and still don't. I haven't followed Penny since then, but I hope he gets a shot at a championship before he retires. He deserves more than he's getting IMO. The Suns aren't going anywhere in the next couple of years.


----------



## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: the perfect rebuttal*

**POOF**


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Wow jazzy1  good post :yes:


----------

